# Why not tell the world to get HR24s?



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

What is wrong with informing people about to have installs done about the HR24 vs the older HRs? EVERYONE knows the HR24s are much faster than the older receivers. 

I know some of you for whatever reason want what is best for DirecTV. That’s totally ok with me. I don’t understand but if that floats your boat go for it. But - what about all those new installs with unsuspecting naive new users that won’t find out the speed difference until they use their new ‘Old-n-SLOW’ HR21/22/23 for a week or two? Too late then! They'll have to pay another $200 each for HR24s. I say we let them know – don’t do the install if it doesn’t include HR24s. I know that’s bad for DirecTV and it costs them money but they should have known that cutting corners during the HR21/22/23 design process would catch up to them eventually.

I have informed several people personally that they should ask the CSR that takes their order to put in notes that they will not allow the install if it includes HR20/21/22 or 23s. I also told them to reiterate that if/when someone calls before the install. Luckily for 3 of the installs that I told to do this the installer showed up with HR24s. Another install is tomorrow and we’ll see what they show up with. I don’t feel even a little guilty – any money that DirecTV spends because people don’t want the ‘slow’ receivers is DirecTVs fault and no one else’s.

It seems that a few people here are taking on the specific task of down-playing the speed differences. Maybe those people should disclose their reasons for doing so? Are they stock holders? Employees?

I don't hate DirecTV - I have paid them a good bit of money over the years and I plan on paying them much more in the future. I was thoroughly impressed with the installer that just installed my MRV. I just don't see the need to defend the intentionally slowed down HR21/22/23s. The sooner those receivers are out of the system the better.

And that’s all I have to say about that. (For the next few minutes anyway)


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Do whatever you feel you need to do.
Any HD DVR that can work with MRV is better than NO HD DVR and the stock of any HD DVR is running short these days due to the overwhelming demand for MRV.
There may be a day real soon [if not already here in some markets] when there are NO 24s to be installed.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike, start a web page if you want to. I bet this is available:

www.onlygetahr24.com

*VOS* got it exactly right. Do whatever you want to do. It's a free country and a loosely moderated board. Put your advice in caps in each of your posts. Fine by me.

If it was me, though, I'd tell folks who really want a HR24 to hold off getting DirecTV for a few months until they are back in the pipeline. Your advice makes dealing with DirecTV on the phone and at the point of installation confrontational experiences. It takes what should be something easy and turns it adversarial. I don't think I'd want to do that to friends or even acquaintances. Most people hate being put in that position.


----------



## foss (Jul 15, 2010)

The issue is that DirecTV is misleading customers by offering a certain type of hardware/experience and delivering another. They show the 24 on the website and make no mention that new users might get an older/refurbished model that only supports 1080i output (1080p on VOD demand stuff with a patch) and less recording time and a slower UI.

Just because most people are not keen enough to notice or care doesn't justify the practice.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Right now, HR24s are on very limited allocation, meaning each region gets a small number, because MRV and "Free HD for Life/2 Years" has drained the supply. Lots of customers can't get installed *at all* right now due to lack of equipment, and many of those who ARE getting installed are getting HR20-23's, because that's all that's available.

Plenty of people are perfectly happy with their DirecTV DVRs.

Also, keep in mind that it is less expensive for DirecTV to give out used receivers than to use all new ones. That cost savings helps keep your bill low. What you are advocating will only drive everyone's bill higher.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*foss*, where does it say on the website you'll get a HR24? Did you make that assumption when you saw the picture? If they had pictured a HR21, you'd be happy with what you got?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

foss said:


> ... no mention that new users might get an older/refurbished model that *only supports 1080i output* (1080p on VOD demand stuff with a patch) and less recording time and a slower UI.


I have no idea where you're getting your bad information.
I have the first HR20-700s here that output 1080p just like my HR24 does. One has a 1080p light & the other lights up two to indicate the same output. The TV & my eyes don't care whether there are one or two lights indicating the output, since both are the same output.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I don’t think it is such a big deal. If they can’t get HR24s now just wait until they can. That doesn’t seem too difficult or confrontational. If a new customer is about to commit to 2 years why shouldn’t they hold out for an HR24? Why should they have to deal with the remote sometimes responds, sometimes not? Why should they have to deal with not being able to consistently hit the ‘Record’ button in the guide twice to record a series?

Even better question why do some people here think you are committing some kind of crime against DirecTV for pointing out the HR24s are MUCH quicker than the others?

I put my money where my mouth is. I’ve spent $600 over the last couple of months to get HR24s. I’m not suggesting (although it would nice) that DirecTV replace all the HR20/21/22/23 with HR24s. I’m just saying that a new subscriber should know what they are getting into.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I bet a large majority of D* customers wouldn't even notice the difference. I thought the D* DVR was faster than my old Tivo and I was excited when I switched from cable. My receiver was an R22, and I was delighted.


----------



## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

As an installer all I'm going to say is, if you don't like what receiver you got, then complain. Stop canceling installs because Directv schedules more appointments then they have equipment for.

This is money straight of the installers pockets. We don't like putting in old refurbd equipment as much you don't like getting it. We have no choice.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Why should they have to deal with the remote sometimes responds, sometimes not? Why should they have to deal with not being able to consistently hit the 'Record' button in the guide twice to record a series?


Don't think for one minute that everyone has had such a horrible time with their "old" receivers as you seem to have had.
I've still got my first HR20-700s and a HR24 next to one of them right now and "guess which one" is currently feeding my TV right now? Yep, the HR20 and the 24 is simply being a MRV server as it's been for the last few weeks.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

matt1124 said:


> I bet a large majority of D* customers wouldn't even notice the difference. I thought the D* DVR was faster than my old Tivo and I was excited when I switched from cable. My receiver was an R22, and I was delighted.


Probably correct, at least at first... But after a while when they figure out they can't just hit 337 on the remote to go to channel 337 it will be too late.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Manctech said:


> As an installer all I'm going to say is, if you don't like what receiver you got, then complain. Stop canceling installs because Directv schedules more appointments then they have equipment for.
> 
> This is money straight of the installers pockets. We don't like putting in old refurbd equipment as much you don't like getting it. We have no choice.


Yep - this a bad deal for the installers. DirecTV should be able track the HR24s. The installers shouldn't have to pay for DirecTV's mistakes although I'm sure the do all the time.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Don't think for one minute that everyone has had such a horrible time with their "old" receivers as you seem to have had.
> I've still got my first HR20-700s and a HR24 next to one of them right now and "guess which one" is currently feeding my TV right now? Yep, the HR20 and the 24 is simply being a MRV server as it's been for the last few weeks.


You are correct. If all the old receivers were HR20-700s then it would not be such a big deal. If you had my HR22s I can tell you which one would be feeding your TV right now!


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike,
What should they do? Refuse install, reschedule , and take another day off(not feasible for most working people)? Rinse, repeat till the 24 is installed? How many times? What about when Directv gets fed up and denies service completely? You haven't thought this all the way through, obviously.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Mike Greer said:


> But - what about all those new installs with unsuspecting naive new users that won't find out the speed difference until they use their new 'Old-n-SLOW' HR21/22/23 for a week or two? Too late then!





Mike Greer said:


> Why should they have to deal with the remote sometimes responds, sometimes not? Why should they have to deal with not being able to consistently hit the 'Record' button in the guide twice to record a series?





Mike Greer said:


> Probably correct, at least at first... But after a while when they figure out they can't just hit 337 on the remote to go to channel 337 it will be too late.


People say the HR24 is faster, so I'll take their word for it, but my HR20 and both of my HR21's are fast enough for me. I've never wished that they were faster. I've also never dealt with non-responsive remote commands or not being able record a series by hitting record twice or not being able to hit 337 and go to that channel - on any of my units.

That's the reason that people don't need to refuse a delivery if they don't get an HR24 - there's nothing wrong with the other units.

You might have had problems with yours, but that doesn't mean everyone does. After your friends cancel a few installs and then D* refuses future installs, what will you tell them then? How will you explain the fact that your myopic views cost them from getting the service they desired?

Is the HR24 faster? Apparently. Would I take one if offered? Sure. But I wouldn't refuse an install if I got something different as they work very well for me (and the people I know).


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

After the pain and suffering for my HR22s I would gladly taken another day off of work to avoid them.

If people don't care - fine. They (at least the ones here) should do if they can. If they want to accept slow then at least they will know what they are getting into.

If DirecTV would fix their system to accept the fact the HR24s are not the 'Same' it would be much better.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> People say the HR24 is faster, so I'll take their word for it, but my HR20 and both of my HR21's are fast enough for me. I've never wished that they were faster.


That's what I thought until I got a HR24, the increased performance made using it a much more pleasant experience. I still have a HR22 and HR23 but they're been basically relegated to just a recording served in my MRV pool due to their slow performance vs. the HR24. Haven't had a case yet where I go to enter a three digit channel number to tune to and a digit get's dropped due to the STB being too busy putting up the channel banner on the 24's.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm sure I'd notice the difference too RAD, that's not really my point. The OP makes it out as if the other models are trash and super slow - that's not the case. Unless directly comparing them to the HR24, the other models are plenty fast enough for most people. Fast enough that there's no need to refuse installs because of it.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> You are correct. If all the old receivers were HR20-700s then it would not be such a big deal. If you had my HR22s I can tell you which one would be feeding your TV right now!


The HR22 is the HR21 with a larger drive. While I haven't had a HR22, I do have a HR21 and the only reason it currently isn't in use is because three DVRs is currently enough for me.
Yes, the HR21 is slightly slower than the HR20, but we're talking something like a half a second slower to respond, and is very easy for me to adjust my remote inputs to.
I've NEVER had the direct channel input issues here, and almost every time I'd read a post about it I'd try to repeat the same thing and not be able to.
I think as we tried many times for you, that you had either sometime wrong in your setup or simply a bad receiver and suggested you should get it replaced.
You make this sound like everyone was totally screwed by getting receivers that others never had problems with.
"Of course" all models can have a bad receiver and we see this with the 24s too.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> If DirecTV would fix their system to accept the fact the HR24s are not the 'Same' it would be much better.


 Why when time will solve the problem?

I saw in another thread somebody today got a HR24-100. As they start filling the pipeline and HR24-500s get back to being available, I'll bet you a six pack of stale beer that everybody automatically gets a HR24. The older receivers that get returned will simply be used as like-for-like replacements for defective units. All new installs and additional DVRs for existing customers will be HR24s.

This is just a hell of a lot of hand wringing over a temporary product shortage.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Why when time will solve the problem?
> 
> I saw in another thread somebody today got a HR24-100. As they start filling the pipeline and HR24-500s get back to being available, I'll bet you a six pack of stale beer that everybody automatically gets a HR24. The older receivers that get returned will simply be used as like-for-like replacements for defective units. *All new installs and additional DVRs for existing customers will be HR24s.*
> 
> This is just a hell of a lot of hand wringing over a temporary product shortage.


With the caveat "with whole Home DVR service".


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Thanks for the correction, *VOS*.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> I'm sure I'd notice the difference too RAD, that's not really my point. The OP makes it out as if the other models are trash and super slow - that's not the case. Unless directly comparing them to the HR24, the other models are plenty fast enough for most people. Fast enough that there's no need to refuse installs because of it.


The OP never said they were trash, just slow which IMHO is true, especially for the HR21/22/23's when compared to the HR20 or HR24. I really didn't have that much of a problem with the slowness, that was until it interferes with the operation of the receiver. The example I made about the digits being dropped when tuning to a channel via direct number entry is due to the slowness of the processor. As I mentioned I have a HR22 and HR23 that's mainly used for as MRV servers, just sit there recording programs and viewed via MRV. If I'm viewing something from one of those STB's and have a 2nd recording kick off while one is already going, or some other 'housekeeping' function happen I usually see pausing in the MRV playback, it gets especially worst if the AM21 is being used for a channel to be recorded. I don't see that behaivor if using a HR24 as the server doing the same functions.

Since I pay the same exact amount of upfront charge for any HR2X I sure would want that HR24 vs. one of the prior models.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Mike Greer said:


> You are correct. If all the old receivers were HR20-700s then it would not be such a big deal. If you had my HR22s I can tell you which one would be feeding your TV right now!


I am using my HR22-100 right now, they seem to be running faster than ever.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

This road and the road signs all look too familiar....


----------



## foss (Jul 15, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> I have no idea where you're getting your bad information.
> I have the first HR20-700s here that output 1080p just like my HR24 does. One has a 1080p light & the other lights up two to indicate the same output. The TV & my eyes don't care whether there are one or two lights indicating the output, since both are the same output.


Mine outputs 1080i only (haven't tried VOD stuff, which supposedly will do 1080p with the software update on my HR21-700. I know it outputs 1080i because my TV and receiver both indicate a 1080i signal on the HDMI signal.

The real issue is the lag and slow user UI of the 21. The problem is the units I demoed and the ones in my friend's homes are 24s which have a much faster UI than the 21 and more importantly the ViP622 from Dish that I cam from.

The hostility to any criticism of DirecTV is shocking on here. I have a valid point. The UI is markedly different than the one I demoed, the unit that appears on DirecTV's website and the one I've used at other people's houses.


----------



## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

foss said:


> Mine outputs 1080i only (haven't tried VOD stuff, which supposedly will do 1080p with the software update on my HR21-700. I know it outputs 1080i because my TV and receiver both indicate a 1080i signal on the HDMI signal.


Uh, foss... there is no source of any 1080P programming but PPV and VOD... NO channel broadcasts in 1080P. Give your unit 1080P program source and, assuming your TV is capable of 1080P, you will get 1080P.

All H series units deliver 1080P.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

foss said:


> Mine outputs 1080i only (haven't tried VOD stuff, which supposedly will do 1080p with the software update on my HR21-700. I know it outputs 1080i because my TV and receiver both indicate a 1080i signal on the HDMI signal.


 You need to have a TV that supports 1080p/24 AND the program needs to be 1080p. NONE of the receivers are going to upconvert to 1080p.


> The real issue is the lag and slow user UI of the 21. The problem is the units I demoed and the ones in my friend's homes are 24s which have a much faster UI than the 21...


Yes the 24s are the fastest, the 20s are next and the other are slower. Nobody has said anything different. What I have said is my 21 wasn't "that slow". 


> The hostility to any criticism of DirecTV is shocking on here. I have a valid point. The UI is markedly different than the one I demoed, the unit that appears on DirecTV's website and the one I've used at other people's houses.


I don't think this is "hostility" as much as trying to point out how those that have been using these models more than a "demo", may have a better idea of how they work in their homes.
You can take a car for a test drive and get an idea of it, but you know so much more after driving it for 12,000 miles in everyday use.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This road and the road signs all look too familiar....


I have post #47 for the over/under as to when we crash into the ditch.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

RAD said:


> The OP never said they were trash, just slow


I guess we just interpret things differently. Saying a customer will get an "old n slow" receiver and will notice that it's slow after a week or two is very misleading.

You said yourself that you thought it was fast enough.



RAD said:


> That's what I thought until I got a HR24


So, you thought it was fast enough the whole time you were using it, but a new customer is going to get duped and think they got an "old n slow" receiver after using it for 2 weeks? IMO, that denotes that the unit is trash and everyone that gets one will think they received a crappy unit, but that's not the case.



Mike Greer said:


> But - what about all those new installs with unsuspecting naive new users that won't find out the speed difference until they use their new 'Old-n-SLOW' HR21/22/23 for a week or two? Too late then!





RAD said:


> The OP never said they were trash, just slow which IMHO is true,


But you only think it's true after getting an HR24. If you just received HR20's (for example) on an install, you'd not think they were slow, correct? The OP thinks differently.


----------



## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> But - what about all those new installs with unsuspecting naive new users that won't find out the speed difference until they use their new 'Old-n-SLOW' HR21/22/23 for a week or two?


Well, those "unsuspecting naive new users" don't have HR-24s to compare their new box to. They also don't read this forum. Don't get confused thinking that the average D* customer is here in this forum. The average D* customer has never heard of this forum. He compares his D* performance to whatever he had before, be it Dish or Cable.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> I'm sure I'd notice the difference too RAD, that's not really my point. The OP makes it out as if the other models are trash and super slow - that's not the case. Unless directly comparing them to the HR24, the other models are plenty fast enough for most people. Fast enough that there's no need to refuse installs because of it.


I noticed about 10 minutes after the initial install of my 3 HR22s. Likely because I was used to the Dish Network 622 receivers that where much quicker. The Dish Network receivers are still faster than my HR24s are now.

Plenty fast would correct if there weren't long pauses and missed buttons on the remote.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

But I also said _"I really didn't have that much of a problem with the slowness, that was until it interferes with the operation of the receiver."_. Yes it took a while from when you hit guide till is showed up or when scrolling through the guide the box would pause, I could live with that.

Have you never had a problem with digits being dropped trying to change channels, except for a couple CE releases, my HR21/22/23's would do that all the time. If you haven't you're one of the very few that hasn't. IMHO there's a difference between just a slow UI, which I could live with, and problems being caused due to the slowness, aka processor constraints, that the HR21/22/23 have.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR22 is the HR21 with a larger drive. While I haven't had a HR22, I do have a HR21 and the only reason it currently isn't in use is because three DVRs is currently enough for me.
> Yes, the HR21 is slightly slower than the HR20, but we're talking something like a half a second slower to respond, and is very easy for me to adjust my remote inputs to.
> I've NEVER had the direct channel input issues here, and almost every time I'd read a post about it I'd try to repeat the same thing and not be able to.
> I think as we tried many times for you, that you had either sometime wrong in your setup or simply a bad receiver and suggested you should get it replaced.
> ...


All electronics can be 'broken' or 'defective'. The problem here is that I had 3 broken and even taking one to my neighbor's house it was still slow. Now that my system has been completely replaced, cables and all, the HR22s are still just as slow as ever.....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Why when time will solve the problem?
> 
> I saw in another thread somebody today got a HR24-100. As they start filling the pipeline and HR24-500s get back to being available, I'll bet you a six pack of stale beer that everybody automatically gets a HR24. The older receivers that get returned will simply be used as like-for-like replacements for defective units. All new installs and additional DVRs for existing customers will be HR24s.
> 
> This is just a hell of a lot of hand wringing over a temporary product shortage.


Time won't fix the problem. If one of my new HR24s dies they are likely going to replace it with something else. If they do that and won't budge it ain't going to be pretty! I didn't spend $600 to have HR24s as a temporary fix.

In fact one of HR22s hard drives died and they sent me an R22. When I told them that wasn't going to fly because according to their system it was and SD recever they still wanted me to activate it... I told them I would after they said it would show up as and HD-DVR but told them if my account showed it as a standard DVR on my on-line account they would have to take it back.... Well, guess what, it showed up as a standard DVR... Then they sent me an HR20-200.... Geez.... So I bought an HR24...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

scottandregan said:


> I am using my HR22-100 right now, they seem to be running faster than ever.


Even if that's true, and maybe it is, knowing what you do would you rather have an HR24 or another HR22. You'll be paying the same $200 lease fee.....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This road and the road signs all look too familiar....


Yep - and the reason I started this was because you and a few others (mostly you) keep trying to say there isn't 'that' much difference. They are functionally the same etc... Well there is a big difference and we all know it!

I know that some people here (not saying you because I don't know) that will just about always give advice that is in DirecTV's benefit. Maybe because there is a working relationship, maybe because of early 'free' equipment or maybe just because they like DirecTV.

Advice from people that just cannot bring themselves to be critical of DirecTV is something new people here should listen to but not take as gospel.

Same goes for the DirecTV haters. If someone here cannot bring themselves to see the advantages/good stuff with DirecTV new people to the forum should listen but not take it as gospel either....


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> If one of my new HR24s dies they are likely going to replace it with something else.


No, you'd get a HR24. DirecTV updated their policy a little while ago so that they now replace like-with-like. Frankly, it was about time.

It isn't as if there aren't HR24s around. It's just that there aren't enough of them.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

pogo said:


> Well, those "unsuspecting naive new users" don't have HR-24s to compare their new box to. They also don't read this forum. Don't get confused thinking that the average D* customer is here in this forum. The average D* customer has never heard of this forum. He compares his D* performance to whatever he had before, be it Dish or Cable.


If they had cable they would likely think their HR22 was fast. If they came from Dish (like me) they would know there was something just not right within a couple of hours of use.

I'm not talking about the average DirecTV customer. I'm talking about people the come here....


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I agree, the previous receivers are SLOW!!! Even my HR20, when I have to use it, I notice the CRAWL compared to the HR24. My Uncle and his wife had an HR23, and that's all I'd hear about over there, how SLOW it was. And I agree. The thing is like a glacier! They finally got an HR24 (Which they had to pay for, even though Directv offered them a free HD DVR). If my HR24 dies, and Directv attempts to replace it with ANYTHING other than an HR24, I'm refusing. I don't care how many times I have to refuse. Maybe they'll get the message after they send 5 or 6 installers and I turn them all away.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Sorry I meant to quote post #37

Fair question. 

I would absolutely want the newest, latest and greatest because that's my personality. I suspect many others that frequent sites like this argee, but for most people I don't think they really notice or care. I know a few folks that have HR20's and 21's and 22's that don't really care about the speed so much as when they set up a series link that all the shows they want to record actually record.

I also know that there are ways to get the latest and greatest receiver if you really want one, I believe that's how you got yours. You don't have to get (lease) your HDDVR directly from DirecTV, if you want it you can get it. I really see no reason to stir the pot and tell the world they are getting screwed when they will probably be happy otherwise.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> No, you'd get a HR24. DirecTV updated their policy a little while ago so that they now replace like-with-like. Frankly, it was about time.
> 
> It isn't as if there aren't HR24s around. It's just that there aren't enough of them.


That is great news. When you say like-with-like what does that mean? My example last week was I had a bad HR22 and got an R22 then an HR20-200 to replace it. Is the like-with-like just with HR24s?

I bought 1 HR24 from SS and 2 from a local DirecTV dealer that had piles of HR24s.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> No, you'd get a HR24. DirecTV updated their policy a little while ago so that they now replace like-with-like. Frankly, it was about time.
> 
> It isn't as if there aren't HR24s around. It's just that there aren't enough of them.


This does sound promising, but what happens in a time of HR24 shortage?


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ You get a HR24, if that's what died. Again, they're short, not unavailable.

*Mike*, you got it. You should have gotten a HR22.

This was reported by *Stuart* maybe a month and a half ago. It was/is/will be implimented. He wasn't sure.

Right now things are so screwed up in doling out receivers, I'm not sure any of their systems are working properly.

I think you could come up with 100% agreement from everyone in this thread on one fact: DirecTV has certainly fouled up the introduction of the HR24 and the Whole House DVR concept, and the current receiver shortage is just the latest problem.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This road and the road signs all look too familiar....


Yup... Just another "me me" person who wants what they want and doesn't care who that impacts...

*sigh*


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I noticed about 10 minutes after the initial install of my 3 HR22s. Likely because I was used to the Dish Network 622 receivers that where much quicker. The Dish Network receivers are still faster than my HR24s are now.
> 
> Plenty fast would correct if there weren't long pauses and missed buttons on the remote.


Seems to me if you're main concern is speed that you should be back with DISH then.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> then an HR20-200 to replace it.


No such unit...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Yup... Just another "me me" person who wants what they want and doesn't care who that impacts...
> 
> *sigh*


Yep - I have to protect my 'relationship' with DirecTV by always protecting them and doing my best to discredit anyone that says anything the puts DirecTV in a less than perfect light...

Oh wait, that's not me - that's......


----------



## vbedford (Jul 25, 2008)

I love direct tv.

I think their cs is second to none.

I have refered 4 people to them already.

They take care of me like no other.

I just got the hr24 and it rules. The other unit's suck.

Yes it's not dtv's fault the older unit sucks BUT
let's not get carried away here guys and wave the dtv flag no matter
what. It's ok to call BS once in a while.

Look at it this way. They are not like Steve Jobs and apple constantly compromising their integrity over money.

All companies have faults.

But some of the guys on this board will NEVER admit that dtv makes mistakes.

Get a life folks dtv won't hate you if you have an opinion.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Seems to me if you're main concern is speed that you should be back with DISH then.


Wow - I hadn't thought of that. Thank you!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> No such unit...


So sorry, I beg for your forgiveness:lol:.... That would be HR20-100.


----------



## vbedford (Jul 25, 2008)

Yea and by the way do your research before *****ing.

I don't want to have to read your false info just because you got wild
hair goin.


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

My HR21-700 is slightly slower than my HR20-700 was. My HR24-500 is a bit faster than either of those. The difference is noticeable, but I spend a lot more time watching than navigating the menus (and that is the only area where there are any differences). I deactivated the HR20 and kept the HR21 because the hard drive on the HR20 was a bit too loud to have in the bedroom.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - I have to protect my 'relationship' with DirecTV by always protecting them and doing my best to discredit anyone that says anything the puts DirecTV in a less than perfect light...
> 
> Oh wait, that's not me - that's......


I'm not protecting DirecTV. I'm not fond of their "you get what you get" policy either but you know what? It's their policy and they aren't going to change it for me so I'm not going to fight them on it or pull some immature stunt to get what I want. Believe me if it were that much of a deal breaker to me, or I thought the DVR's were as slow as you claim they are, I'd change providers to one that suited my requirements.

I'm sticking up for the installers who lose money every time someone sends them away because they didn't bring an HR24. They need to make money too!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - I hadn't thought of that. Thank you!


You're welcome.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

bobnielsen said:


> My HR21-700 is slightly slower than my HR20-700 was. My HR24-500 is a bit faster than either of those. The difference is noticeable, but I spend a lot more time watching than navigating the menus (and that is the only area where there are any differences). I deactivated the HR20 and kept the HR21 because the hard drive on the HR20 was a bit too loud to have in the bedroom.


I think most would say the HR24 is a little more than 'a bit faster' but I'm happy you're happy!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I think most would say the HR24 is a little more than 'a bit faster' but I'm happy you're happy!


Anyone who has an HR24 and another model knows how much faster it is.

There are also plenty of reports and First Look contents to support these, as well as the most recent compare by Canis Lupis. These are timed reports, so they are factual in nature and plenty to judge from.

Since I don't have Dish, nor would I ever get it...I could care less what they have nor how they compare. I have seen enough of it to know they have plenty of their own issues, and speed is the least of their worries.

It would seem reasonable to assume that after this long a time of one's apparent dis-satisfaction and disappointment (based on your repeated threads and posts), many folks would have simply moved on to another provider. In any case....good luck.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not protecting DirecTV. I'm not fond of their "you get what you get" policy either but you know what? It's their policy and they aren't going to change it for me so I'm not going to fight them on it or pull some immature stunt to get what I want. Believe me if it were that much of a deal breaker to me, or I thought the DVR's were as slow as you claim they are, I'd change providers to one that suited my requirements.
> 
> I'm sticking up for the installers who lose money every time someone sends them away because they didn't bring an HR24. They need to make money too!


'Some immature stunt'? How is telling DirecTV from the beginning that you won't take anything but HR24s for your new install 'some immature stunt'?

I told them to make sure it was in the notes specifically to save the installer a trip out for an install that would be canceled without HR24s. The installers shouldn't have to pay/suffer for DirecTV's idiotic policy of 'You get what you get'. New customers shouldn't have to pay/suffer for poorly designed DVRs that DirecTV intentionally cut corners on.

The 'immature stunt' happened when DirecTV designed the HR21/22/23 to save money accepting the fact the hardware would be unable to keep up with advertised features. You know simple things like responding to the remote control!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> The 'immature stunt' happened when DirecTV designed the HR21/22/23 to save money accepting the fact the hardware would be unable to keep up with advertised features. You know simple things like responding to the remote control!


"I get it that yours had problems", but please quit telling me that mine had problems that it didn't.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Anyone who has an HR24 and another model knows how much faster it is.
> 
> There are also plenty of reports and First Look contents to support these, as well as the most recent compare by Canis Lupis. These are timed reports, so they are factual in nature and plenty to judge from.
> 
> ...


Yes - anyone who has an HR24 and another model knows but the new subscribers won't know until after they have the 2 year contract in place along with their bent up 'refurb' HR22.

Yep - plenty of reports here on the speed increase when going to an HR24. Comparing the HR21/22/23 to a an HR24 would be more useful than comparing the HR20s to HR24s but that would show how bad the HR21/22/23 really are and we can't be critical of DirecTV now can we?

As far as Dish Network goes - they have issues, as do all providers, but 'speed' isn't a worry for them. The 4 year old 622 is as fast as or faster than the HR24 is today. I wouldn't expect you to consider them&#8230; That would be like the Pope preaching from the Qur'an. Don't see that happening under any circumstance.

I would have moved to another provider if I would have done my homework on the HR2x line before I had paid for the lease privilege on 3 HR22s. I also can't get Sunday Ticket anywhere else either. Now DirecTV has managed to get me to spend big bucks to get HR24s and start a new 2 year commitment. You'll be stuck with me for the foreseeable future!

My repeated threads and posts are driven more by people trying to pretend the HR21/22/23s are 'fast enough' and that if someone has problems it is their problem not DirecTV's problem. For the matter nothing gets my typing faster than people that are incapable of criticizing DirecTV regardless of the facts.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "I get it that yours had problems", but please quit telling me that mine had problems that it didn't.


Not telling you that yours have/had problems but many people do have these problems. These problems can be completely avoided on new installs by using HR24s... Simple as that...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> *Not telling you *that yours have/had problems but many people do have these problems. These problems can be completely avoided on new installs by using HR24s... Simple as that...


Then maybe you can "shade" your post to reflect this.
I too read that some have problems. This is a fact.
"My point" is not all have these which seems to be your opinion as you seem to keep hammering models you haven't even had, it looks like.
I can ***** at DirecTV like anyone else for many things, so that isn't the point either.
Blanket statements simply aren't true, unless EVERYONE is that way, which [again] hasn't been the case.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Mike Greer said:


> The sooner those receivers are out of the system the better.


They won't be out of the system until they have mostly died. Given the installed base, that make take some time.


----------



## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Probably correct, at least at first... But after a while when they figure out they can't just hit 337 on the remote to go to channel 337 it will be too late.


I have two HR20's -- amoung the oldest HD DVR's. One of them is a -700 and the other one a -100. I've never had this issue. To be completely fair, I don't channel surf much at all -- prefering to watch recorded material around 80% or more of the time. But, during that 20%, repsonse to my Harmony Ones is not an issue. Obviously, YMMV -- I have read that not everyone is so lucky.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Then maybe you can "shade" your post to reflect this.
> I too read that some have problems. This is a fact.
> "My point" is not all have these which seems to be your opinion as you seem to keep hammering models you haven't even had, it looks like.
> I can ***** at DirecTV like anyone else for many things, so that isn't the point either.
> Blanket statements simply aren't true, unless EVERYONE is that way, which [again] hasn't been the case.


You're right - I am guilty of using a big blanket. I'll will work on that issue...

And you do not fall into the 'unable to be critical' crowd. You and many others here give lots of good advice and genuinely are trying to help people. There are few very vocal people here that just can't accept that DirecTV has issues like any company that has millions of customers. Even to the point of down-playing the improvements in the HR24 in what seems to be an attempt to save DirecTV money! Those are the people I am referring to.


----------



## butters (Sep 25, 2007)

I have no idea how fast the HR24 is compared to the HR23, etc. since I haven't seen it. But if it gets rid of the lag it would be my only choice. I have Dish and at one point entertained switching to Direct. After visiting my Dad and trying his new HR23s there is no way I would be able to handle the lag. I actually though he had defective equipment after a reboot didn't help matters. Then I read the posts.

I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to some folks, but for me coming from Dish the unresponsiveness would annoy me to no end. I would have to insist on the HR24 if I were getting new service.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

lflorack said:


> I have two HR20's -- amoung the oldest HD DVR's. One of them is a -700 and the other one a -100. I've never had this issue. To be completely fair, I don't channel surf much at all -- prefering to watch recorded material around 80% or more of the time. But, during that 20%, repsonse to my Harmony Ones is not an issue. Obviously, YMMV -- I have read that not everyone is so lucky.


Yes - it seems that in most cases the HR20s don't have this and some of the other troubles likley because the HR20s are faster than the 21/22/23s. Even my hated HR22s don't have that specific trouble all the time - you just never know what you're going to get.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

butters said:


> I have no idea how fast the HR24 is compared to the HR23, etc. since I haven't seen it. But if it gets rid of the lag it would be my only choice. I have Dish and at one point entertained switching to Direct. After visiting my Dad and trying his new HR23s there is no way I would be able to handle the lag. I actually though he had defective equipment after a reboot didn't help matters. Then I read the posts.
> 
> I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to some folks, but for me coming from Dish the unresponsiveness would annoy me to no end. I would have to insist on the HR24 if I were getting new service.


Exactly - if DirecTV could promise new customers HR24s I think they would have more converts.

I really think that if I had been using a Comcast Motorola DVR and then moved to my HR22s I wouldn't have noticed my slow HR22 right away. Because I came from Dish without doing my homework it was quite the slap in the face to slow down to the HR22's speed. The HR24 has 'fixed' this problem for me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> They won't be out of the system until they have mostly died. Given the installed base, that make take some time.


Then again...there isn't any real consensus of the problems a limited number of vocal folks have reported...so the urgency simply isn't there, except to that limited number of folks who claim to have issues.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...there isn't any real consensus of the problems a limited number of vocal folks have reported...so the urgency simply isn't there, except to that limited number of folks who claim to have issues.


Even if you ignore every post I have ever made there are still hundreds if not thousands of post comlaining about the speed and remote response of HR2x receivers.

I guess all those people are just 'claiming to have issues'?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

harsh said:


> They won't be out of the system until they have mostly died. Given the installed base, that make take some time.


Considering how many HR2x receivers are in use I would expect it to be years and years before they are 'out of the system'.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Probably not. There have been reports of HR20-100s being retired, with people told not to ship the defective ones back. It's hard to imagine the HR20-700 being far behind.

Although if you mean "out of the system" you mean out of people's homes, in that case, yes. There's a lot of 10 year old SD equipment still out in people's homes.

But in terms of being replaced when they die, I don't think the HR20 series is long for this world. Once they get depreciated down far enough, it's not worth DirecTV's time or money to refurbish them.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR22 is the HR21 with a larger drive. While I haven't had a HR22, I do have a HR21 and the only reason it currently isn't in use is because three DVRs is currently enough for me.
> Yes, the HR21 is slightly slower than the HR20, but we're talking something like a half a second slower to respond, and is very easy for me to adjust my remote inputs to.
> I've NEVER had the direct channel input issues here, and almost every time I'd read a post about it I'd try to repeat the same thing and not be able to.
> I think as we tried many times for you, that you had either sometime wrong in your setup or simply a bad receiver and suggested you should get it replaced.
> ...


While the 21s may be a bit slower than the 20-700, in my case, my HR21-200 is actually less vulnerable (than my HR20-700) to occasional slow-downs and the "multiple key press issues", which come and go. (go figure).

My wife's HR20-100 never has the keypress issue. Never.

Yes, a new HR24-500 would be nice. I wouldn't refuse it. Yet, after years of using the HR20-700, HR21-200, HR20-100, I am not motivated to try to find a way to weasel a 24-500 out of DirecTV.

When the HR20-700 finally dies, I would strongly prefer the latest and greatest (whatever it is). That's only natural. To characterize the older DVRs as unbearably slow, or unpleasant to use is (in my opinion) hyperbole.
I use them every day, and am having a very good time. There are slow downs. It does happen (here). I see them more on the HR20-700 than the HR21-200. For some reason, I don't find myself becoming apoplectic when they do. (it kinda ruins the viewing mood, ya know?)

People who insist on only receiving the latest and greatest (when the company has made no such assurances), instead of very serviceable units, (if granted their wishes), are going to trigger the Law of Unintended Consequences.

1. The increased costs to D* for such a move will result in the them being passed on to current and new subscribers.

2. Depending on the methods used (like canceling an in-progress on-site install), it could take money out of the installer's pocket.

Now, maybe #2 is not a problem for the "gotta have it" crowd, after all, it isn't their ox being gored, but when the amount of price inflation increases to cover #1 hits them, we'll just have another thread about how expensive this is getting and we can't possibly afford it, etc.

Costs are going to to up, they always do. Let's not aggravate the problem by insisting on something that for the vast majority of customers is a non-issue (and standard practice throughout the industry).


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Even if you ignore every post I have ever made [*Can I please, please, :lol:*] there are still hundreds if not thousands of post comlaining about the speed and remote response of HR2x receivers.


I'm not sure of the post counts, but if you were to look at members that have posted, I'm not sure it's over 100.
This is kind of the problem with this type of "guessing". If it's a problem you're having, then it is a much bigger deal to you [as it would be for me].
There are something like 10 million HD customers, so nobody here can say what percentage of customers have the same problem as anyone of us may have.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Probably not. There have been reports of HR20-100s being retired, with people told not to ship the defective ones back. It's hard to imagine the HR20-700 being far behind.
> 
> Although if you mean "out of the system" you mean out of people's homes, in that case, yes. There's a lot of 10 year old SD equipment still out in people's homes.
> 
> But in terms of being replaced when they die, I don't think the HR20 series is long for this world. Once they get depreciated down far enough, it's not worth DirecTV's time or money to refurbish them.


I think it will be a while. I don't see DirecTV chucking a bunch of HR2x when they can box them up and ship them out to peole that will be paying $200 to lease them again.

I'm not sure on the retirement of the HR20-100s - they sent me one last week to replace a failed HR22.....


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

They are not going to destroy current inventory especially when receivers are in such short supply. That's why you got one. I'm talking about the cost of refurbishing them. I'm sure these units are on a rapid depreciation schedule with DirecTV, and at some point, their book value goes below the cost of refurbishing them. At that point, a corporation says when what's out there dies, it dies. That has been reported with HR20-100s on this board multiple times, whether you want to believe so or not.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not sure of the post counts, but if you were to look at members that have posted, I'm not sure it's over 100.
> This is kind of the problem with this type of "guessing". If it's a problem you're having, then it is a much bigger deal to you [as it would be for me].
> There are something like 10 million HD customers, so nobody here can say what percentage of customers have the same problem as anyone of us may have.


First, yes you may ignore every post I have ever made!

As the numbers go I'm not sure but the problems I have had are not unique here or in the wild... Even my neighbor switched to Dish Network because his HR21 was so slow. He didn't ***** like me or care about Sunday ticket so the day after his contract was up Dish Network was installed. I asked him about it a couple of weeks ago and he said twice his 722 has locked up but other than that the 722 was much faster and he didn't feel the need to smash his remote. I guess if the Dish had Sunday Ticket I could trade slow HR22s for fast Dish Network DVRs that I'd have to restart!

The polls from the past would indicate 'most' people here think speed is a problem with the HR2x line:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165382&highlight=speed+poll

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166472&highlight=speed+poll

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165384&highlight=speed+poll

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165387&highlight=speed+poll

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165388&highlight=speed+poll


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Anyone else getting de ja vu in this thread....

I'm reminded of the movie European Vacation...in London...when the Grizwald car is "stuck" in the circle in the road...

It's time to say.... "Big Ben" (yet again)....


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Groundhog Day.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Groundhog Day.


!rolling


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Rude post redacted.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> They are not going to destroy current inventory especially when receivers are in such short supply. That's why you got one. I'm talking about the cost of refurbishing them. I'm sure these units are on a rapid depreciation schedule with DirecTV, and at some point, their book value goes below the cost of refurbishing them. At that point, a corporation says when what's out there dies, it dies. That has been reported with HR20-100s on this board multiple times, whether you want to believe so or not.


Not not saying I don't believe it... Just saying they sent me one last week.

I think it will be a long time before they before they stop asking for HR21/22/23s to be shipped back. If they get shipped back they'll get shipped out to new customers, used as replacements for failed boxes and for additional boxe orders. Could be a very long time.....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Yep – I have a long history of complaining about the HR2x series. No doubt about it. When my HR22’s stop sucking I’ll stop *****ing. 

And a few of you have an even longer history of coming to DirecTV’s defense at all cost. Maybe you would like to enlighten the rest of us on your motivations for carrying the company torch?


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Now now....let's not go the personal route...
> 
> It's one thing to debate the post topics and content....and another the poster... <lesson learned from my own mistakes in the past>


I deleted it.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - I have a long history of complaining about the HR2x series. No doubt about it. When my HR22's stop sucking I'll stop *****ing.
> 
> And a few of you have an even longer history of coming to DirecTV's defense at all cost. Maybe you would like to enlighten the rest of us on your motivations for carrying the company torch?


Like who Mike? Me?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I deleted it.


Thank you.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> First, yes you may ignore every post I have ever made!
> 
> As the numbers go I'm not sure but the problems I have had are not unique here or in the wild... Even my neighbor switched to Dish Network because his HR21 was so slow. He didn't ***** like me or care about Sunday ticket so the day after his contract was up Dish Network was installed. I asked him about it a couple of weeks ago and he said twice his 722 has locked up but other than that the 722 was much faster and he didn't feel the need to smash his remote. I guess if the Dish had Sunday Ticket I could trade slow HR22s for fast Dish Network DVRs that I'd have to restart!
> 
> ...


Now I just looked at each of those and still don't see anything.
No one here has said the HR20 or HR21/22/23 are not slower than the HR24.
I also don't see enough votes to show there are 100 voters supporting your position.
Maybe you can "data mine" those polls to show how they can support your position.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Like who Mike? Me?


I don't know... Have you ever had anything to say that DirecTV wouldn't 'approve of'?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't know... Have you ever had anything to say that DirecTV wouldn't 'approve of'?


Does it matter?
He retracted his comments earlier and deleted...I suspect in an attempt to retain a civil conversation.

It takes 2 to tango.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't know... Have you ever had anything to say that DirecTV wouldn't 'approve of'?


Yup. Billing nightmares a few years ago. I hate Directivo.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Now I just looked at each of those and still don't see anything.
> No one here has said the HR20 or HR21/22/23 are not slower than the HR24.
> I also don't see enough votes to show there are 100 voters supporting your position.
> Maybe you can "data mine" those polls to show how they can support your position.


No need to data mine. Just saying the receivers are slow and that at least according to the polls more people think these receivers are closer to the 'slow' end of the scale than the 'fast' end of the scale. Considering how many people here are devoted to protecting DirecTV (not you!) I'm surprised the polls turned out so poorly for DirecTV.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Does it matter?
> He retracted his comments earlier and deleted...I suspect in an attempt to retain a civil conversation.
> 
> It takes 2 to tango.


He asked, I answered.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Yup. Billing nightmares a few years ago. I hate Directivo.


Wow - I guess that about sums it up!


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't know... Have you ever had anything to say that DirecTV wouldn't 'approve of'?


I know that I have and I've been asked to be part of a number of early release testing programs, the HR24-500 being the latest. As long as you're not bashing for the sake of bashing and being honest I've never had an issue with saying something negative about DirecTV.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - I guess that about sums it up!


Other then that, I love Directv because they have what I want - HD sports and tons of it. I had a Moto cable box for a year, I know lag very well. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"Reality check"

Everyone has expectations of how their DVR should work, whether they've used any others or not.
You poke a button and expect a response. Now how you judge this response will vary by many things. If you've used faster DVRs this will affect how you feel.
I had this after using my HR20 and tested my HR21. Yes it is/was slower. As I've posted, it seems to be less than half a sec longer, but I notice it. This longer time isn't a big deal to me.
Others have said they wait 10 sec for a reaction. If any one of mine had done this it wouldn't here very long.
If I was used to driving a Ferrari and changed to a Yugo, it too would be around very long. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> No need to data mine. Just saying the receivers are slow and that at least according to the polls more people think these receivers are closer to the 'slow' end of the scale than the 'fast' end of the scale. Considering how many people here are devoted to protecting DirecTV (not you!) I'm surprised the polls turned out so poorly for DirecTV.


"One of the problems" with polls is the voter base. More than likely those with the problem are going to vote than those without the problem. I can't even know if "I voted" in any of them.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - I guess that about sums it up!


Not sure what that is supposed to mean...but...

I can assure you that others here are not fond of the HR10 DirecTivo (me included), and may have had issues in the past as well. I also know I have, including the MRV pricing and others. DirecTV is not perfect nor will it ever be. I don't need it to be perfect either.

Perhaps the difference in all this is that when some have had an issue, they looked at the alternatives and peacefully worked with others to resolve them, using the information and tools that are at everyone's disposal.

Others have taken the vent, re-vent, and re-re-vent approach, and ultimately accomplished little to solve their issues. I have learned from the school of hard knocks that it is also easy to be tempted and sucked into these never-ending kinds of threads. It seems a shame that all that energy spent couldn't be directed in a more constructive way to satisfy their needs.

I haven't seen any single person at DBSTalk who means any intentional ill will or negative experiences for anyone else.

The goal here is to give information, help, and do the best within out own abilties to resolve anything that can be. All the answers are not here, yet many well-intentioned folks are here.

I have yet to see a single problem anyplace, anytime, anywhere solved through repeated venting. I have seen thousands of issues resolved through mutual help and work to get something done.

In the mean time...best wishes for enjoying your HDTV viewing.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...there isn't any real consensus of the problems a limited number of vocal folks have reported...so the urgency simply isn't there, except to that limited number of folks who claim to have issues.


I wasn't even considering why (or why not) people would want to demand an HR24. I was simply pointing out that it is unlikely that the earlier models are going away overnight. I've seen evidence in the last month or so where HR20 models are still being recovered.

Since you brought it up, the HR24 seems to have a few users (is "vocal" bad if the problems are well documented and repeatable?) who mention issues with it as well.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> I wasn't even considering why (or why not) people would want to demand an HR24. *I was simply pointing out that it is unlikely that the earlier models are going away overnight*.


That's a very true statement.

The HR24 demand has certainly outweighed the supply...causing some shortages. In addition, the related equipment exchange process and inventory must be pretty brisk. I don't see HR20's going back to the field as much.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

This thread reminds me of a time long ago ....


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> This thread reminds me of a time long ago ....


Yeah...we have an all-star cast of characters here all right... :lol::lol::lol:

P.S....I love that commercial!


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mike, 
I have an HR20, 21 and two 22's. I've used the 22's in both of my main viewing rooms, by choice. While admittedly a little slower than the HR20 they were both fast enough _*FOR ME*_. Nobody is saying there isn't speed differences between the units. What you fail to get though is that *YOU* aren't the benchmark for whether or not these units are *PERCEIVED* slow by everyone else. Perception is reality.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't see HR20's going back to the field as much.


Not since post #76 in this thread anyway.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> Not since post #76 in this thread anyway.


Roger that. 

Based on having the HR24-500, and now HR24-100...they seem to be looking to have more inventory going out to attempt to meet the demand.

There is little doubt the HR24 is the best HD DVR they have released to date, so everyone (or nearly everyone) wants one. Over time, I suspect we'll see more and more of the HR20's "permanently" retired. As long as the other units support 3D, as well as SWiM & DECA (for WHDS)...they'll probably be in play for some time.


----------



## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

Personally, I like the built in OTA tuners in my old, trusty HR20s. No need for an outboard AM21. It's worth the slower response to the remote, IMHO.

Different strokes, eh?


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

There are issues with all the HR boxes. They come and go (for me). None of them (or any other electronic device of some sophistication) work perfectly all the time. A new box, like the HR24 is likely to have its own set of problems. Some are real problems, some are merely preferences of users.

From what I have seen of my non-HR24s, they are doing fine (with their associated problems), because I don't expect them to be absolutely perfect. As long as they stay in "development" and I can use them effectively, I'm happy.

So far, both of these conditions are being met.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Personally, I like the built in OTA tuners in my old, trusty HR20s. No need for an outboard AM21. It's worth the slower response to the remote, IMHO.
> 
> Different strokes, eh?


Absolutely.

I had 2 HR20-700's for almost 4 years...solid performers and great OTA. At this time, my need for OTA has pretty much vanished...but I have an AM-21 as needed.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> 'Some immature stunt'? How is telling DirecTV from the beginning that you won't take anything but HR24s for your new install 'some immature stunt'?


That in itself is an immature stunt. We as customers aren't in a position to make demands of DirecTV. When you signed up with DirecTV you agreed to their policies, you didn't sign an agreement that said you could haggle on everything. Their policy is "you get what you get" and if you don't like the company's policies then don't do business with the company, it's that simple.



Mike Greer said:


> I told them to make sure it was in the notes specifically to save the installer a trip out for an install that would be canceled without HR24s. The installers shouldn't have to pay/suffer for DirecTV's idiotic policy of 'You get what you get'.


I agree that the installers shouldn't have to pay. That's why it ticks me off so much to see people saying they are sending installers away just because they're not getting an HR24... It's stupid, self-centered and immature to send installers away for that reason.



Mike Greer said:


> New customers shouldn't have to pay/suffer for poorly designed DVRs that DirecTV intentionally cut corners on.


You have proof that DirecTV sabotaged the production of these receivers and purposely made them as slow and unresponsive as you claim? If so I'd say you have a potential lawsuit.



Mike Greer said:


> The 'immature stunt' happened when DirecTV designed the HR21/22/23 to save money accepting the fact the hardware would be unable to keep up with advertised features. You know simple things like responding to the remote control!


I have no speed issues with either of my HR21's at all. Are they slower than my HR24? Yes... Are they as slow and unresponsive as you claim they are? No...


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "I get it that yours had problems", but please quit telling me that mine had problems that it didn't.


Amen!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> My repeated threads and posts are driven more by people trying to pretend the HR21/22/23s are 'fast enough' and that if someone has problems it is their problem not DirecTV's problem. For the matter nothing gets my typing faster than people that are incapable of criticizing DirecTV regardless of the facts.


I have no problems criticizing DirecTV when warranted but the fact of the matter is that the majority of us have not had the issues you claim you have had. We're not just saying that because we love DirecTV, we're saying that because we haven't had the problems. When will you get that??


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "Reality check"
> 
> Others have said they wait 10 sec for a reaction. If any one of mine had done this it wouldn't here very long.
> If I was used to driving a Ferrari and changed to a Yugo, it too would be around very long. :lol:


I have had my HR20-700 take 7 seconds to change screens, when something else is monopolizing the processor. It doesn't happen often, but I'm not hallucinating, either. Most of the time it is downright snappy, and I sense no "extra waiting time" for something to happen.

This occasional "long wait" is not sufficient for me to spend any out of pocket money to get a different unit. Sooner (rather than later), it is bound to fail, and at that time, I'll try to get the best unit available. With the Protection Plan, who knows what they will send me, but instead of engaging in pointless speculation, I'll just use this old beast until it fails, and do my best to enjoy what it does.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Probably not. There have been reports of HR20-100s being retired, with people told not to ship the defective ones back. It's hard to imagine the HR20-700 being far behind.


I actually have an HR20-700 I was told not to send back. It's going to sit here just in case they decide they didn't tell me that too. :lol:


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Groundhog Day.


<radio>... I got you babe...</radio>


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> When my HR22's stop sucking I'll stop *****ing.


According to a previous post you spent $600 getting rid of them and replacing them with HR24's. Since you don't have them anymore I think it's safe to say you can stop *****ing.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

[another reality check]

Everyone gets to post their thoughts, so let's not start going down this path. Whether you agree with them or not, they have the right to post. If you don't agree, "hey you too" get to post.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> [another reality check]
> 
> Everyone gets to post their thoughts, so let's not start going down this path. Whether you agree with them or not, they have the right to post. If you don't agree, "hey you too" get to post.


...ergo....post #99.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yes - anyone who has an HR24 and another model knows but the new subscribers won't know until after they have the 2 year contract in place along with their bent up 'refurb' HR22.
> 
> Yep - plenty of reports here on the speed increase when going to an HR24. Comparing the HR21/22/23 to a an HR24 would be more useful than comparing the HR20s to HR24s but that would show how bad the HR21/22/23 really are and we can't be critical of DirecTV now can we?


Hmmm .. "slow" really is relative. The HR20-23 are not as snappy as the HR24. This is true. But at the same time, it's not like they are 5 times worse. Even in the worst case test with the HR20s it was 50% slower .. 9 seconds to complete a sequence vs. 6 seconds. Many of the tests were only a few percentage points away - comparing today's technology with 3 years ago.

Much of the "slow" talk started when the remote sequences were having some issues. That problem has generally been corrected at this point and what we see today are real hardware based difference. Folks that use a DVR to record and then view programming .. essentially pressing {LIST} more often than {GUIDE} or {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} is probably generally happy with the performance of the older boxes.



> My repeated threads and posts are driven more by people trying to pretend the HR21/22/23s are 'fast enough' and that if someone has problems it is their problem not DirecTV's problem. For the matter nothing gets my typing faster than people that are incapable of criticizing DirecTV regardless of the facts.


Ah .. So you want to shout out to folks that they should get the HR24 instead of the HR20-23 .. To that I say .. "OK, knock yourself out!" you are more than welcome to preach the virtues of the HR24 over the earlier boxes .. heck, I think you'll find that some of the "people" you are referring to have also done that exact same thing in places.

The only suggestion I've seen in this thread is folks simply saying "Why do I (the poster) have to preach the virtues of the HR24 when I (the poster) think that many people will find value in the older boxes?"

Your anger (OK, perhaps it's perceived anger) is in the fact that we as a collective forum aren't doing what you personally want to do. To that I say, everyone here is free to think differently on that and we do not need to ram something down folks throats. Sure, the HR24 is faster .. but I just added 2 HR20s to my parents setup (replacing 2 R15s) and you know what? 3 months later, they're still happy with the setup. It's possible that the older receivers are fine in many situations. Not everyone HAS to have a 24, but fore those that do .. help 'em out and give them pointers on ways to achieve that.


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Fish Man said:


> Different strokes, eh?


EXACTLY! Most people think I drive too fast but I don't think I drive fast enough most of the time. Who's wrong? Neither, it's called an *opinion* and everyone is entitled to their own.

The 2 facts here are the HR24's are faster but, going off of the number of HDDVR customers Directv has, obviously most people don't have a big enough issue with the speed of the other models for it to matter all the much. I know *MOST* normal customers (we aren't the normal ones) wouldn't put up with the horrible experience that Mike seems to have had.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TITAN_53 said:


> EXACTLY! Most people think I drive too fast but I don't think I drive fast enough most of the time. Who's wrong? Neither, it's called an *opinion* and everyone is entitled to their own.


As George Carlin put it "everyone in front of me is a moron and anyone passing me is a maniac".  :lol:


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

The problem with telling people to get the HR24 is that you are setting them up for frustration and disappointed. The reality is that they are new receiver, in limited supply and even if that wasn't the case DirecTV is not setup to handle requests for specific receivers.

If you understand the situation and are willing to accept the hassle of trying to get a HR24 because you think it is worth it, then, that is your choice. Encouraging others to do the same with out making sure they clearly understand everything that entails is irresponsible.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm ashamed to say I neglected to even think of this a long time ago....

*WORLD - get the HR24!*

Whew....I feel exhausted.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

evan_s said:


> The problem with telling people to get the HR24 is that you are setting them up for frustration and disappointed. The reality is that they are new receiver, in limited supply and even if that wasn't the case DirecTV is not setup to handle requests for specific receivers.
> 
> If you understand the situation and are willing to accept the hassle of trying to get a HR24 because you think it is worth it, then, that is your choice. Encouraging others to do the same with out making sure they clearly understand everything that entails is irresponsible.


I think this is very important, too. Many (read: virtually everyone not @ DBSTalk) just want to watch TV. The older models let you do that.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Probably not. There have been reports of HR20-100s being retired, with people told not to ship the defective ones back. It's hard to imagine the HR20-700 being far behind.
> 
> Although if you mean "out of the system" you mean out of people's homes, in that case, yes. There's a lot of 10 year old SD equipment still out in people's homes.
> 
> But in terms of being replaced when they die, I don't think the HR20 series is long for this world. Once they get depreciated down far enough, it's not worth DirecTV's time or money to refurbish them.


Completely untrue. Both the HR20-100 and HR20-700s are on the current active model list. They have not been added to the scrap list. They are still being recovered. Any CSR that states otherwise is mistaken.

In fact, we have several pallets of HR20-700s that will be installed over the course of the next week or so.


----------



## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> ...We as customers aren't in a position to make demands of DirecTV...


This above may very well be the most ill-informed statement I have ever read on any forum, while at the same time being one of the funniest.

To paraphrase the Fanboi™ Kool-Aid drinkers (and you know who you are); If you don't like the free-market system, go find one you like better.

And for the record, although "faster" than months ago, the HR22s are turtles.

As both a DIRECTV shareholder and client (you get to move from customer to client at the ten-year mark), I say keep giving 'em hell, Mike G.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

zkc16 said:


> This above may very well be the most ill-informed statement I have ever read on any forum, while at the same time being one of the funniest.
> 
> To paraphrase the Fanboi™ Kool-Aid drinkers (and you know who you are); If you don't like the free-market system, go find one you like better.
> 
> ...


It seems far too easy to confuse the concept of voting your pocketbook with making demands. They are not the same.

I agree with the original statement in the context of what was said.


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

BattleZone said:


> Also, keep in mind that it is less expensive for DirecTV to give out used receivers than to use all new ones. That cost savings helps keep your bill low. What you are advocating will only drive everyone's bill higher.


The market dictates price, not D*'s cost. It eats into their profit margin, it doesn't raise your bill.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> This above may very well be the most ill-informed statement I have ever read on any forum, while at the same time being one of the funniest.
> 
> To paraphrase the Fanboi™ Kool-Aid drinkers (and you know who you are); If you don't like the free-market system, go find one you like better.
> 
> ...


I kind of cringed when I read that statement in isolation, and my first response was "of course we can".

Without getting into the semantics of "demand" vs. desire, etc., One can certainly prefer one thing or another, and communicate that in various strengths to the provider. That's how the free market system works. You vote with your pocketbook if you don't like their response.

All this aside, since D* doesn't (and didn't) promise the HR24, or any other specific DVR, they have fulfilled their contractual obligations. Sure, I'd like an HR24 (with its own set of problems). I may end up getting one when the HR20-700 dies. Then again, I might not. I'm equally prepared.

As long as I can record, and watch with good quality, and the units I have continue to be developed, I'm good. I'll take better, but I'm not making any *demands*.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

RAD said:


> But I also said _"I really didn't have that much of a problem with the slowness, that was until it interferes with the operation of the receiver."_. Yes it took a while from when you hit guide till is showed up or when scrolling through the guide the box would pause, I could live with that.
> 
> Have you never had a problem with digits being dropped trying to change channels, except for a couple CE releases, my HR21/22/23's would do that all the time. If you haven't you're one of the very few that hasn't. IMHO there's a difference between just a slow UI, which I could live with, and problems being caused due to the slowness, aka processor constraints, that the HR21/22/23 have.


No I haven't


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

You can demand anything you want from DirecTV.

Just be prepared for them to either ignore you or say no.

Yes, Mike, give them hell. When it comes to the myriad of ways DirecTV has blown the introduction of the HR24 and Whole House DVR, somebody should give them hell. Don't be surprised, though, if afterward they say, what's your name again?


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

hasan said:


> Sure, I'd like an HR24 (with its own set of problems). I may end up getting one when the HR20-700 dies. Then again, I might not. I'm equally prepared.


 My position exactly, down to my main DVR being a HR20-700. Right on, *hasan*. :up: You Iowa guys are cool. :glasses:

I'd also underline "with its own set of problems". I've said here before that the reason I'm not in the CE program is that I value reliability above all else. It's the same reason I would be leary of a DVR on its first iteration of software. I'd prefer to let them get the bugs out of it first.


----------



## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It seems far too easy to confuse the concept of voting your pocketbook with making demands. They are not the same.


Au contraire. As a client (customer), I get to make my demands and if they aren't met to my satisfaction, I then vote with my wallet. While the acts themselves are not the same, it's all part of the same free-market process. 

Even better, as a shareholder (owner) I get to regularly tell DIRECTV's management what to do, fire Board members if I don't like the direction in which they are taking the company, and just generally cause all sorts of ruckus, all in an effort to turn them into an efficient, client-centered, profitable company. Ain't it great?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

zkc16 said:


> Au contraire. As a client (customer), I get to make my demands and if they aren't met to my satisfaction, I then vote with my wallet.


Demand away...and see who listens (likely nobody).

Ask...and ye shall find...


----------



## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Demand away...and see who listens (likely nobody).
> 
> Ask...and ye shall find...


You know not of what you speak as my myriad successes speak for themselves.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

zkc16 said:


> You know not of what you speak as my myriad successes speak for themselves.


I just bet they do.....so how many states will still let you visit? :lol::lol:


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I just want to point out that the word _myriad_ has been used three times in the last six posts.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> I just want to point out that the word _myriad_ has been used three times in the last six posts.


Glad we have that cleared up.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I think many of you are missing my point and intent. I didn’t demand anything from DirecTV. I am talking about new subscribers here. I paid my dues in cash and blood:eek2: with all my HR22 trouble. I paid good money for 3 HR24s – I think they owe them to me personally but I didn’t even ask – I just paid outright for 2. The third that replaced the HR20-100 I got (or will get) $80 off. I paid $200 but they are crediting me $100 - $19.99 shipping. 

Again – NEW SUBSCRIBERS not me, not you the new guys getting installs now. If they can’t HR24s they should wait. Period. If the installer doesn’t read the notes before he goes out then who is to blame?

New installs can make all the ‘demands’ of DirecTV they want. It’s not like DirecTV is the IRS. They could demand an HR24 and a box of chocolates of they wanted to…. Where are you guys from?

If you would rather have beaten to hell HR21s over HR24s raise your hands…. I didn’t think so!

By the way, I still have 2 HR22s – I added the HR24s to my account so I have also increased my monthly bill.

Also – I just received the ‘return’ box for the HR20-100…. I think they want it back….

If I line up DVRS from Comcast, Dish Network, and DirecTV and had random people tell me how they would rate the speed it would it would be (slowest to fastest) Motorola box from Comcast, HR21/22/23, HR20 and the HR24 would be a close 2nd to a Dish Network 622 and/or 722. Call it what you want but I don’t see how it would come out any other way. To me the difference from the HR20 to an HR24 is a pretty big jump….

Did I mention I’m talking about new installs?

Wow – what a can of worms!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I think many of you are missing my point and intent.
> 
> Wow - what a can of worms!


----------



## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

Just hold out a little longer the charlotte market just got a LARGE Shipment of hr24s and are expected to get 600 h24s on Monday 

D* is catching up

-james - sent from my iPod


----------



## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I paid my dues in cash and blood


Blood? Really? The last time I heard that one it was a guy telling me he "left some of his blood on Okinawa...." (I didn't ask him what they named it) Sheesh, I'll assume it's hyperbole.


----------



## dschur (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like you got a bunch of old timers her so I'll throw in my first post.

Long time cable user (and media center/HD HomeRun). When comcrap started encrypting everything I looked around and decided DirectTV.

My install whole home DVR was done end of June and it was perfect - I guess I lucked out and had an HR24, H24, and POS SD receiver box installed. The installer did a phenomenal job.

Used it for a week, decided it would stick.

I ordered another HD-DVR (and a Cowboys remote ;-) to replace the SD box. couple days later got an HR-22. I never unboxed it.

Called Directv and I WAS SHOCKED to learn they have no control whatsoever apparently over what was shipped. I talked to the guy for a bit, I told him I want built in DECA and not 2 year old equip, he said he could ship a replacement, but it would be a crapshoot as to what I got.

I decided to just return the 22. He sent me a recovery kit, and that's cool. I ordered a HR-24 from Solid signal and got it the next day.

So I ask myself now, being a totally uninformed newbie twit (maybe you can help me understand):

Why in the hell would anyone ever, evr buy (er, sorry, lease) hardware from Directtv? Why not just get it from Solid Signal and have control over what you get? Is it not pathetic that a third party can control what goes out but the first party can not?

Don't get me wrong, I am not *****ing, I love the HD and customer service so 
fare, but for the knowledgeable geek, shipping them old piece of crap for 200 bux (and giving them the privilege to lease it indefinitely going forward? really?, seriously that makes sense here?

So I walk into an apple store plop down my 200 and I may get a 2G, 3G, 3GS or 4? Just a spin of the wheel?


----------



## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

dschur said:


> Looks like you got a bunch of old timers her so I'll throw in my first post.
> 
> Long time cable user (and media center/HD HomeRun). When comcrap started encrypting everything I looked around and decided DirectTV.
> 
> ...


1. Are you of the mistaken impression that you will "own" the box you bought from SS?

2. Why would you pay 200 "bux" (whatever they are) for an upgrade box from D*?

3. If you're such a newbie, how in heck would you know you don't want an HR22?
Have you ever used one?


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Welcome to the board and DirecTV, *dschur*. This board has some really knowledgeable folks. Not me. I'm kept around for comic relief. I make the smart people here feel better about themselves.

Just one thing. You know that HR24 you got from Solid Signal is leased, don't you? From your post, I think you do but I just want to make sure.

You asked why anyone would want a leased box. Initially, I thought it was as stupid an idea as you do. I had always owned my own DirecTV receivers. But I've changed my mind. Imagine it's four years from now. Your HR24, after working great for all this time, becomes a boat anchor. If you owned it, what would you do? Try to get it fixed? Throw it away? But because it is leased, you call DirecTV, they charge you $19 for shipping, and they send you a replacement DVR. You send back the broken POS HR24. You're back in business.

If you had owned that HR24, I can guarantee you that whatever you would have done about it, that solution would have cost more than $19.


----------



## lromoda (Sep 18, 2006)

Following the OP's logic, I recommend new customers hold out for an HR-25 since they will be much faster than the HR-24's.

Sorry if it's been said already, I didn't take time to read all the posts.


----------



## fdglsg (Jul 21, 2008)

I just received e-mail from overstock they have 5 HR-24 in stock now so hurry...


----------



## dschur (Jul 17, 2010)

pogo said:


> 1. Are you of the mistaken impression that you will "own" the box you bought from SS?


no not at all - did I say that?



pogo said:


> 2. Why would you pay 200 "bux" (whatever they are) for an upgrade box from D*?


Sorry if I brain-strained bux=dollars.

Because I wanted an HD-DVR with whole home DVR capabilities in a room that had an SD receiver only on an HD TV. Does that not make sense to purchase (yes, I know it is really a lease) an upgrade? I did not purchase it in the initial install as I did not want to increase my initial outlay by an additional $200 if I did not like the service.



pogo said:


> 3. If you're such a newbie, how in heck would you know you don't want an HR22?
> 
> Have you ever used one?


I read the first looks here (great resource) when I was looking into getting the service, and I wanted built-in Deca for whole-home (I didnt want a mess of cables/power supplies/deca boxes at each location). Seems pretty simple right? Also the industrial design of the 24's is, to me, much cleaner/nicer with no buttons.

No, I have never used an HR22 - the one Directv shipped me never came out of the bubble wrap/box. I have used older D* boxes at my brother-in-laws and they always left me with the impression the guide was slow so I wanted to avoid that and being that I am setting up new equipment and outlaying $200 to begin the 2 year commitment and lease, I think that was reasonable.

pogo, have you used an HR24? Is there no difference? Have you tried a few HR24s/H24s, with whole home DVR and a single deca? It's a very clean and simple install for me.

My question remains (and it may be rhetorical), why would anyone purchase leased equipment ever directly from D* and get some random draw from the warehouse, why not get it all from Solid Signal (or equivalent), and have control? Is there any benefit to procuring the lease from D* at all? Isn't it sort of awkward that the company itself cannot control what they ship? should they maybe tier slight discounts (i.e. $180) for those that are fine (as I see many are) with the HR 22s, allowing others who value the improvements in the recent models, to specify and receive them explicitly?

Would you walk into a car dealership and start a lease knowing the would then pick a random vehicle/color/model out of the back and pull it around for you? That might have worked for Skoda, but not for Cadillac.


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Did I mention I'm talking about new installs?


So wouldn't the better advice be to just wait until the stock replenishes instead of telling them to order the service, demand an HR24 that the tech almost certainly won't have, reschedule, rinse, repeat?

Seems like a lot of trouble when you could just WAIT until the pipe is full of HR24's.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TITAN_53 said:


> So wouldn't the better advice be to just wait until the stock replenishes instead of telling them to order the service, demand an HR24 that the tech almost certainly won't have, reschedule, rinse, repeat?
> 
> *Seems like a lot of trouble when you could just WAIT until the pipe is full of HR24's*.


There's some truth in that last statement....


----------



## dschur (Jul 17, 2010)

Carl Spock said:


> Welcome to the board and DirecTV, *dschur*. This board has some really knowledgeable folks. Not me. I'm kept around for comic relief. I make the smart people here feel better about themselves.
> 
> Just one thing. You know that HR24 you got from Solid Signal is leased, don't you? From your post, I think you do but I just want to make sure.
> 
> ...


Thanks Carl, that makes sense from that perspective (old equipment that needs repair), and probably over time has the benefit of keeping people up to date, I would point out that over those 4 years I also paid $240 dollars to lease that box as well, so it's not totally a freebie. I'd rather be able to buy what I want and spend more to do it, which isn't possible now (and I'm fine with that as the HD service is excellent), but I am hopeful over the long term that will change with the FCC seeking input to revamp cablecard.

I'm not asking why anyone would want a leased box as much as I'm asking why anyone would purchase those leased boxes from D* directly, getting something random, as opposed to say Solid Signal where you can get what you want.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dschur said:


> I'm not asking why anyone would want a leased box as much as I'm asking why anyone would purchase those leased boxes from D* directly, getting something random, as opposed to say Solid Signal where you can get what you want.


Sometimes DirecTV can give you a better deal on the hardware/installation.


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> What is wrong with informing people about to have installs done about the HR24 vs the older HRs? EVERYONE knows the HR24s are much faster than the older receivers.
> 
> I know some of you for whatever reason want what is best for DirecTV. That's totally ok with me. I don't understand but if that floats your boat go for it. But - what about all those new installs with unsuspecting naive new users that won't find out the speed difference until they use their new 'Old-n-SLOW' HR21/22/23 for a week or two? Too late then! They'll have to pay another $200 each for HR24s. I say we let them know - don't do the install if it doesn't include HR24s. I know that's bad for DirecTV and it costs them money but they should have known that cutting corners during the HR21/22/23 design process would catch up to them eventually.
> 
> ...


2-week program guide
Caller ID
Closed Caption settings in Receiver
DIRECTV on Demand (DoD) capable
Dolby Digital
RF Remote included
Pause, slow-motion, fast forward
Interactive (DIRECTV Active)
Media Share capable
SWiM compatible
500 GB hard drive.
Up to 400 hours SD or 100 hours HD recording.

2-week program guide
Caller ID
Closed Caption settings in Receiver
DIRECTV on Demand (DoD) capable
Dolby Digital
Enriched Guide Data
Game Lounge
Interactive (DIRECTV Active)
Media Share capable
RF, IR, XMP-2 capable Remote included
Pause, slow-motion, fast forward
SWiM compatible. 
500 GB hard drive.
Up to 400 hours SD or 100 hours HD recording.

Can anyone tell me the difference between them? It's because there really isn't one they both carry pretty much the same version of software which the HR23 should have Version x3DE and HR24 should have Version: x3E0. I've sat down side by side with the two and cannot tell much of a difference. On older models like the HR21 when it goes to 1080p the 720p and the 1080i lights will be on at the same time to show that it is in 1080p. Directv cannot guarantee which model you receive that it up to the warehouse that the tech gets his equipment. I just feel that some people are complaining about this issue is because they are spoiled and think they're not up-to-date with the latest technology and think they have to have the lastest and newest model.

P.S. The first list of features is the HR23 of course the second is the HR24.


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> Sometimes DirecTV can give you a better deal on the hardware/installation.


Hopefully you do know that even by getting them at solidsignal.com they are still leased and would have to returned to Directv.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dschur said:


> Thanks Carl, that makes sense from that perspective (old equipment that needs repair), and probably over time has the benefit of keeping people up to date, I would point out that over those 4 years I also paid $240 dollars to lease that box as well, so it's not totally a freebie


Technically speaking, you are paying for the service with the $5/month fee for the extra box.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dtvmike1652 said:


> Hopefully you do know that even by getting them at solidsignal.com they are still leased and would have to returned to Directv.


I'd guess this post was for others and not really to me, because DUH! :lol:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dtvmike1652 said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between them? It's because there really isn't one ...


It's all in perspective .. The only noticeable difference is that the 24s are a bit faster than the older boxes. But again, it's not drastic .. but definitely noticeable. Most customers who get an older box will be very happy with their service.


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

dschur said:


> Thanks Carl, that makes sense from that perspective (old equipment that needs repair), and probably over time has the benefit of keeping people up to date, I would point out that over those 4 years I also paid $240 dollars to lease that box as well, so it's not totally a freebie. I'd rather be able to buy what I want and spend more to do it, which isn't possible now (and I'm fine with that as the HD service is excellent), but I am hopeful over the long term that will change with the FCC seeking input to revamp cablecard.
> 
> I'm not asking why anyone would want a leased box as much as I'm asking why anyone would purchase those leased boxes from D* directly, getting something random, as opposed to say Solid Signal where you can get what you want.


Over that 4 years you are not paying for that box you may be paying the mirroring fee of $5 but you would have that whether or not the receiver was owned or leased.


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> I'd guess this post was for others and not really to me, because DUH! :lol:


I was hoping you knew but you never know any more i'm surprised at the amount of people who don't read the fine print and agreements when they receive them.


----------



## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

dschur said:


> I'm not asking why anyone would want a leased box as much as I'm asking why anyone would purchase those leased boxes from D* directly, getting something random, as opposed to say Solid Signal where you can get what you want.


As has been mentioned, DIRECTV often will provide hardware and installations at a reduced cost. The caveat being that in most instances, accepting DIRECTV's offer will generally start/reset the two-year commitment clock. The same is not true for hardware obtained from other sources.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dtvmike1652 said:


> I was hoping you knew but you never know any more i'm surprised at the amount of people who don't read the fine print and agreements when they receive them.


I actually have both owned and leased receivers.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> As has been mentioned, DIRECTV often will provide hardware and installations at a reduced cost. The caveat being that in most instances, accepting DIRECTV's offer will generally start/reset the two-year commitment clock. *The same is not true for hardware obtained from other sources.*


"Say What"?
Anything but an "owned outright" receiver, when added to your account, will restart the programing commitment.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> As has been mentioned, DIRECTV often will provide hardware and installations at a reduced cost. The caveat being that in most instances, accepting DIRECTV's offer will generally start/reset the two-year commitment clock. The same is not true for hardware obtained from other sources.


Incorrect... Adding a leased receiver starts the 2 year clock over regardless of how it is obtained.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*dschur*, thanks for the read.

As others have said, that $5 charge is a mirror fee and has been there for at least a dozen years, including back when we all owned our gear (wasn't it $3 initially?). It isn't on your first receiver/DVR but is on all the rest of them.


----------



## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

I didn't welcome you to the forum, which I should have.



> no not at all - did I say that?


No, you did not. Now you have clarified -- the context seemed to imply that you might think that.



> Is there any benefit to procuring the lease from D* at all?


Yes. $99 VS $199. D*'s current offer if I were to upgrade my R16 to an HD box 
My HR21 cost $0, and was installed free, including installation of a new dish. (Sigh. Those days are past)



> isn't it sort of awkward that the company itself cannot control what they ship?


It's kind of awkward that so many folks can't seem to understand the difference between "can't" and "chooses not to".

No, I haven't used an HR24, but I believe the accounts that say it is much faster.
Valuing features that are absent from other models is a good reason to buy one, but the feature set and the speed aren't good enough reasons for me to buy one at a premium.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> It's all in perspective .. The only noticeable difference is that the 24s are a bit faster than the older boxes. But again, it's not drastic .. but definitely noticeable. Most customers who get an older box will be very happy with their service.


Doug.... Doug.... A bit faster? Not drastic? Really?


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Doug.... Doug.... A bit faster? Not drastic? Really?


Look at the numbers.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I’ve forgotten what this thread was about but… Bottom line is the HR24 is much faster in EVERYTHING that it does. Anyone that asks me if they should switch to DirecTV will get the same advice. DirecTV is great but you want HR24s not the older receivers. Simple as that.

2 years from now I expect that new installs will be the same deal – you may get HR24s you may get HR22s. You may get new, you may get used. I don’t care so much about new/used but HR22 vs HR24 is a deal breaker…


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Look at the numbers.


What numbers would I look at? There are some for HR24 vs HR20 - what about HR24 vs HR22? What about hitting 'R' in the guide to record a series.. Big difference between my HR22s and my HR24s.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I've forgotten what this thread was about but&#8230;


You're not alone there.... 


> Bottom line is *the HR24 is much faster *in EVERYTHING that it does. Anyone that asks me if they should switch to DirecTV will get the same advice. DirecTV is great but you want HR24s not the older receivers. Simple as that.


From what I'm reading here...the only word that is causing any kind of confusion or disagreement is the word "much". It's a subjective term, and if it were not in that sentence, I suspect few would have any heartburn.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

It’s funny how the early testers were talking about how much faster and better the ‘New’ receivers would be and how great their experiences with the HR24 were. Now that new receiver is causing DirecTV problems by showing just how slow the old ones are those same people are now downplaying the difference.

Does EVERYONE here work for DirecTV?:lol:


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> It's funny how the early testers were talking about how much faster and better the 'New' receivers would be and how great their experiences with the HR24 were. Now that new receiver is causing DirecTV problems by showing just how slow the old ones are those same people are now downplaying the difference.
> 
> Does EVERYONE here work for DirecTV?:lol:


There goes the thread. Now, you're implying too far. Enjoy your agenda Mike.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> It's funny how the early testers were talking about how much faster and better the 'New' receivers would be and how great their experiences with the HR24 were. *Now that new receiver is causing DirecTV problems by showing just how slow the old ones are those same people are now downplaying the difference.*


That's a glass-is-half-empty look at it.

It would seem quite reasonable to assume and expect new equipment to outperform its predecessor(s)....otherwise...what's the point?

The degree of improvement differs for each user...depending on what is being compared. There seems to be little doubt the HR24 is indeed fast. In my case...it was sigificantly faster than the unit it replaced...yet...the previous unit was perfectly acceptable for years prior to seeing the HR24 in action.

My HR21, in contrast, is faster than others I have replaced, but not as speedy as the HR24. How much? The difference? Does it matter?

BTW - you don't have to work for DirecTV, Dish, or anyone else to see these things. Eyeballs work just fine.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> What numbers would I look at? There are some for HR24 vs HR20


Look here at the video http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2509257&postcount=1


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Doug.... Doug.... A bit faster? Not drastic? Really?


Mike I think you and I are just using adjectives differently ..

5x difference == drastic

50% difference == noticeable

The HR21, HR22 & HR23 are NOT 5x slower than the HR24. If fact, I doubt they are even 2/3 the speed of the HR24? But yeah, the HR24s are faster.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> There goes the thread. Now, you're implying too far. Enjoy your agenda Mike.


My only agenda is to keep my friends/family/neighbors/clients from having to deal with the same problems I went through with my nasty HR22s.

What is your agenda?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Look here at the video http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2509257&postcount=1


That is a great video but it uses the fastest of the old boxes. If they had used my HR22s the difference would more real world....


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> What is your agenda?


Let me check my to do list first. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> That is a great video but it uses the fastest of the old boxes. If they had used my HR22s the difference would more real world....


The differences would be just "as real", but greater, since we have always said the 21/22/23 are slower.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> The differences would be just "as real", but greater, since we have always said the 21/22/23 are slower.


Mystery solved.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> It's funny how the early testers were talking about how much faster and better the 'New' receivers would be and how great their experiences with the HR24 were. Now that new receiver is causing DirecTV problems by showing just how slow the old ones are those same people are now downplaying the difference.
> 
> Does EVERYONE here work for DirecTV?:lol:


You do realize that not one person her has said that we should suggest an HR22 over an HR24. The ONLY thing that has been suggested is that IF a new customer ends up with an HR22 that it's not the end of the world.

Couple this with the fact that it won't even be an issue for most customers. You, yes, but most, no. In fact, I'd venture to guess that most customers would consider sending the installer away, then back, then away again to be drastically more trouble than a "slow" receiver.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Does EVERYONE here work for DirecTV?:lol:


I took the liberty of changing my signature, just to eliminate any confusion "a very small few" may have had on that topic. 

By the way...its all true.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> What numbers...?


Trying to go back to your first post/topic:
Do whatever you feel you should do.
Most of the replies have tried to give others experiences with there receivers.

To use cars as a performance mark:
You seem to like 0-60 in less than 4 sec [I do too]
The HR24 is maybe 6 sec, as I'm sure it isn't the fastest DVR ever.
The HR20 is maybe 8 sec, and the "normally running" HR21/22/23 might be 9-10 sec.
I know my HR21 would be about this much slower than my HR20.

It would be interesting [to me] to see what your HR22 does in "my world".


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It would seem quite reasonable to assume and expect new equipment to outperform its predecessor(s)....otherwise...what's the point?


You really need to be exceedingly careful about going here or you're going to have to explain the HR21-3. More often than not, the focal point of new designs is manufacturing cost reduction.

Moore's Law suggests that if you fast forward two or three years in chip technology, you're almost bound to pick up some performance gains.

Unfortunately the creeping featuritis from  the marketroids and having to port the software to a new processor platform are well suited to negating the impact of Moore's Law.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Agreed. Since they are almost identical functionally, I have to think the HR21 was cheaper to manufacture than the HR20, and the HR22 was cheaper to build than the HR21, and so on. In fact, I'm confident even with its improved performance, the HR24 is cheaper to build than any of them.


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Doug.... Doug.... A bit faster? Not drastic? Really?


Yes, really. Not everyone has the same perception as you.



Mike Greer said:


> I've forgotten what this thread was about but&#8230; Bottom line is the HR24 is much faster in MOST THINGS that it does. Anyone that asks me if they should switch to DirecTV will get the same advice. DirecTV is great but you want HR24s not the older receivers. Simple as that.


(Fixed the quote for you.) Nobody has said not to suggest HR24's when someone asks you, not that we did.



Mike Greer said:


> 2 years from now I expect that new installs will be the same deal - you may get HR24s you may get HR22s. You may get new, you may get used. I don't care so much about new/used but HR22 vs HR24 is a deal breaker&#8230;


So you're complaining about how you think Directv will handle their equipment 2 YEARS FROM NOW!?



Mike Greer said:


> What numbers would I look at? There are some for HR24 vs HR20 - what about HR24 vs HR22? What about hitting 'R' in the guide to record a series.. Big difference between my HR22s and my HR24s.


What about it? Again, nobody has said the 22's are as fast as the 20's or 24's. I still don't PERSONALLY have a problem with them but YOU do. That's called perception.

You are not going to convince the people who use the equipment and have their own perception already that they are wrong about how well their receivers work for THEM.

EVERYONE GO BUY SPORTS CARS! THEY ARE FASTER! YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY BE HAPPY WITH YOUR CAR BECAUES IT'S NOT THE FASTEST! IF YOU ARE BUYING A NEW CAR YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE HAPPY WITH IT UNLESS IT'S THE FASTEST OUT THERE!

See how rediculous that sounds?

And for the record, I would not accept anything other than an HR24 at this point. Not because I dislike using the other units but because I am a "latest and greatest" type of person. Not everyone is though.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your goal of letting everyone know which is the fastest unit, I just think you are going about it the wrong way and shouldn't assume that everyone HAS to have the fastest receiver to be happy with it.


----------



## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

I have watched this thread since it started and I have never seen such a waste of space.

Mike, if you want to tell people to only accept H24 & HR24 units, go ahead, you don't know enough people for it to matter. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

As for the rest, DirecTV is certainly capable of controlling the flow of goods... 95% of the people out there who are DirecTV customers will never know nor understand the difference.

DirecTV itself is weeding out problem units and they will quietly go away. Two years from now the HR24 will be an antique.

We have other things to do. Lots of people need assistance with the new DECA set-ups, there are plenty of bugs to deal with so why don't we do what we do best... help out people who ask for it.

Larry


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> You really need to be exceedingly careful about going here or you're going to have to explain the HR21-3. More often than not, the focal point of new designs is manufacturing cost reduction.


No sir...I don't need to be "exceeding careful" about any such thing, particularly when I have used all of these units myself, and am far more qualified to understand what they contain (including viewing them internally as a multiple beta tester) than any Dish subscriber without any real experience on them - no differently than having me tell someone the merits of the inner workings of the VIP series. For that very reason, I don't participate in the Dish zone of this site.

Respectfully I must say...you're barking up the wrong tree Mr. Beagle.

A side affect, *not* "focal point" of the each subsequent new series of HD DVR is cost reduction. Reduced costs happen from construction experience and mass production. It's a goal...a benefit...but not *THE* goal. The various units over time feature design, hardware component, and other internal technology changes, routinely designed to improve performance and/or add capabilities (most recently 3D, which the HR20 does not fully support).

Processors, video chips, hard drives, BBCs (internal and external), DECA, and many other things have been introduced in the HRx series since the HR20 unit came out. It's called evolution. The HR24 is simply constructed (at a lower cost based on learned economies and improved manufacturing) featuring the latest needs, coupled with the experience of its grandfather and father units.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> My only agenda is to keep my friends/family/neighbors/clients from having to deal with the same problems I went through with my nasty HR22s.


!rolling


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

RunnerFL said:


> Incorrect... Adding a leased receiver starts the 2 year clock over regardless of how it is obtained.


You are 100% correct. When you buy a receiver at a retailer, ie. Best Buy a receipt will print out showing the terms and agreement along with the box itself stating propery of DIRECTV. You can however buy a receiver from someone who previously did own a receiver but would need to be verified by Directv themselves to make sure that receiver is in fact owned and if it was then the buyer would need to purchase a new access card to activate it on their account. From their then Directv would have to change the status of the receiver from leased to owned. Majority of places you see them for sale like retailers, solidsignal.com, and even ebay are leased receivers with a commitment attached to the receivers themselves.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> The differences would be just "as real", but greater, since we have always said the 21/22/23 are slower.


By 'real world' I ment that more people are going to get HR21/22/23s than HR20s....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No sir...I don't need to be "exceeding careful" about any such thing, particularly when I have used all of these units myself, and am far more qualified to understand what they contain (including viewing them internally as a multiple beta tester) than any Dish subscriber without any real experience on them - no differently than having me tell someone the merits of the inner workings of the VIP series. For that very reason, I don't participate in the Dish zone of this site.
> 
> Respectfully I must say...you're barking up the wrong tree Mr. Beagle.
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting the HR21 was an 'upgrade' to the HR20?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Are you suggesting the HR21 was an 'upgrade' to the HR20?


Having owned both...I'm suggesting things were "upgraded" inside the HR21 from the HR20.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Trying to go back to your first post/topic:
> Do whatever you feel you should do.
> Most of the replies have tried to give others experiences with there receivers.
> 
> ...


I agree except that when the performance is so slow that it stops you from easily doing basic things like entering channel numbers or recording a series by hitting record in the guide then it becomes more than just slow....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having owned both...I'm suggesting things were "upgraded" inside the HR21 from the HR20.


An 'upgrade' that slowed things down.... That's interesting. When people 'upgrade' their computers the exepct it to get faster not slower. What were there new functions the HR21 had over the HR20 again? They took away the OTA tuner, made it slower, oh the hard drive is a little bigger!


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree except that when the performance is so slow that it stops you from easily doing basic things like entering channel numbers or recording a series by hitting record in the guide then it becomes more than just slow....


I never realized I was so addled and impared when using my HR20 and HR23. I should get help. Since HR24s are in such short supply, do you think I could get government assistance instead?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree except that when the performance is so slow that it stops you from easily doing basic things like entering channel numbers or recording a series by hitting record in the guide then it becomes more than just slow....


This is why I'd be interested in seeing what "your HR22" did in "my world", since I've never seen anything that bad here.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

LarryFlowers said:


> I have watched this thread since it started and I have never seen such a waste of space.
> 
> Mike, if you want to tell people to only accept H24 & HR24 units, go ahead, you don't know enough people for it to matter. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
> 
> ...


Really - what about the polls showing most people think the Pre-HR24 HRs are slow? Or all my posts about trouble and slowness of my HR22s? Aren't those threads a bigger was of space?

95% of the people won't know the difference and most won't care - I agree. But why it so horrible for new subs to request HR24s to avoid the trouble?

2 Years the HR24 an antique? Maybe so but I'd bet that in 2 years DirecTV will still be sending out HR21/22/23s to replace defective boxes or for additional boxes.

You are right about plenty of help and I know you're a big source of help for people around here.

It doesn't help people to down-play the speed of the HR24s over the others - it helps DirecTV.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> An 'upgrade' that slowed things down.... That's interesting. When people 'upgrade' their computers the exepct it to get faster not slower. What were there new functions the HR21 had over the HR20 again? They took away the OTA tuner, made it slower, oh the hard drive is a little bigger!


My HR21-200 is so close to being the same as the 2 HR20's I had it here for almost 4 years, the difference would require a stop watch to measure. Also not worthy of even calling it "slower". Heaven know we've heard all about your HR22's being slow a hundred times. That doesn't mean the rest of us share in that experience.

Your definition of an "upgrade" and other folks is obviously different. The OTA tuner was not taken away - it just changed form to an external unit. That topics been covered at nauseum. A larger drive is an upgrade to most people.

So this endless and subjective opinion ping-pong is clearly never going to be resolved. If this thread was a horse....I know what they'd do...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> I never realized I was so addled and impared when using my HR20 and HR23. I should get help. Since HR24s are in such short supply, do you think I could get government assistance instead?


Maybe... Give it a try.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> This is why I'd be interested in seeing what "your HR22" did in "my world", since I've never seen anything that bad here.


If only DirecTV woud allow it... I'd swap you your 2 HR20-700s for my 2 HR22s - then we'd both be happy!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My HR21-200 is so close to being the same as the 2 HR20's I had it here for almost 4 years, the difference would require a stop watch to measure. Also not worthy of even calling it "slower". Heaven know we've heard all about your HR22's being slow a hundred times. That doesn't mean the rest of us share in that experience.
> 
> Your definition of an "upgrade" and other folks is obviously different. The OTA tuner was not taken away - it just changed form to an external unit. That topics been covered at nauseum. A larger drive is an upgrade to most people.
> 
> So this endless and subjective opinion ping-pong is clearly never going to be resolved. If this thread was a horse....I know what they'd do...


So the HR21 was an upgrade by putting a larger hard drive in it. It was also upgraded by removing the OTA tuner. It was also upgraded by making it a littler 'slower'. Right? Just want to make sure I understand.

Next time I upgrade a computer I'll make sure I remove the sound capability, take out some RAM but I'll put in a bigger hard drive so I can still call it an upgrade..... Aren't you streching this just a bit?


----------



## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> So the HR21 was an upgrade by putting a larger hard drive in it. It was also upgraded by removing the OTA tuner. It was also upgraded by making it a littler 'slower'. Right? Just want to make sure I understand.
> 
> Next time I upgrade a computer I'll make sure I remove the sound capability, take out some RAM but I'll put in a bigger hard drive so I can still call it an upgrade..... Aren't you streching this just a bit?


It's prettier too.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

joed32 said:


> It's prettier too.


Sorry - Shouldn't have left that off the 'upgrade' list!


----------



## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Really - what about the polls showing most people think the Pre-HR24 HRs are slow? Or all my posts about trouble and slowness of my HR22s? Aren't those threads a bigger was of space?
> 
> 95% of the people won't know the difference and most won't care - I agree. But why it so horrible for new subs to request HR24s to avoid the trouble?
> 
> ...


I still find that the speed on my HR22 varies. Sometimes it seems fine, other times it crawls. So I agree with you its slow for the most part, but its not a deal breaker for me. Although I will try to swap out my HR22's for HR24's when my contract is up in Sept. And start a new 24 mo commitment.

One thing I can't believe is that you are still posting about the speed issue with your HR22's after all these months. Try focusing more energy on the pure enjoyment of the quality HD programming you are getting.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> So the HR21 was an upgrade by putting a larger hard drive in it. It was also upgraded by removing the OTA tuner. It was also upgraded by making it a littler 'slower'. Right? Just want to make sure I understand.
> 
> Next time I upgrade a computer I'll make sure I remove the sound capability, take out some RAM but I'll put in a bigger hard drive so I can still call it an upgrade..... Aren't you streching this just a bit?


Nice try at twisting what was said....but no one will fall for that in a second. :nono2:

The only one who uses the slow word around here is you - coincidence - I think not. 

Your ongoing claims about your HR22 remind me of this scene from National Lampoon's Vegas Vacation... *it starts at the 2:41 point*....

Hint...in this metaphor...the poker chip is your HR22... I'm the dealer...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nice try at twisting what was said....but no one will fall for that in a second. :nono2:
> 
> The only one who uses the slow word around here is you - coincidence - I think not.
> 
> ...


Ha! You should be so lucky!

I guess I missed what you said. I thought you said "the difference would require a stop watch to measure" Did you mean the HR21 is faster or slower than the HR20? My bad....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RACJ2 said:


> I still find that the speed on my HR22 varies. Sometimes it seems fine, other times it crawls. So I agree with you its slow for the most part, but its not a deal breaker for me. Although I will try to swap out my HR22's for HR24's when my contract is up in Sept. And start a new 24 mo commitment.
> 
> One thing I can't believe is that you are still posting about the speed issue with your HR22's after all these months. Try focusing more energy on the pure enjoyment of the quality HD programming you are getting.


Sounds about like my HR22s but I make the kids use those now!

I know it sounds like I obsess about the HR22s, I mostly don't even think about them anymore - I don't have to use them. The trouble comes up when I come here and see posts over and over by the 'protective' club trying down-play the trouble and how much faster the HR24s really are.

Not a big deal anymore. I admit - watching TV with the HR22 used to piss me off when the remote flaked out but again, since I make the kids use those, it doesn't even cross my mind until I come here!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> 95% of the people won't know the difference and most won't care - I agree. But why it so horrible for new subs to request HR24s to avoid the trouble?
> 
> ...
> 
> It doesn't help people to down-play the speed of the HR24s over the others - it helps DirecTV.


It's not horrible for new subs to request HR24s. It's not horrible for you to tell new subs that they should request HR24s ... It's not horrible if said new sub still ends up getting something other than an HR24 ....


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

dtvmike1652 said:


> You are 100% correct. When you buy a receiver at a retailer, ie. Best Buy a receipt will print out showing the terms and agreement along with the box itself stating propery of DIRECTV. You can however buy a receiver from someone who previously did own a receiver but would need to be verified by Directv themselves to make sure that receiver is in fact owned and if it was then the buyer would need to purchase a new access card to activate it on their account. From their then Directv would have to change the status of the receiver from leased to owned. Majority of places you see them for sale like retailers, solidsignal.com, and even ebay are leased receivers with a commitment attached to the receivers themselves.


One correction. When activating an owned receiver that was obtained from a person, it is not that DirecTV needs to change the receiver from leased to owned. If it is activated correctly to begin with, it will be activated as owned. The issue is that most first-line CSR's don't know how to do that and just activate the receiver, which puts it in a lease status and also extends the customer's commitment time for two years.

- Merg


----------



## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

:soapbox:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> It's not horrible if said new sub still ends up getting something other than an HR24 ....


Unless you happen to be that new sub!

Back to the beginning - I know it is not popular here but I don't see a problem telling the CSR that takes your order to put in the 'notes' that you only want HR24s. If they don't have them then just wait until they do. If the installer still shows up without HR24s then the installer wasted their time and the new subs time.

I think DirecTV also needs to create a new group of receivers for the HR24. I for one would even be willing (as I have shown) to pay a little more to avoid the pre-HR24 world. Maybe they could just charge $250 rather than $200 for the HR24s so that people that care can pay an extra $50 and not have to worry about it. People that don't care can stick with the older ones.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike, when your kids were little, did you ever take them to the store and they said, "Daddy, lookatthis...lookatthis...lookatthis," and when you did look at what they wanted and told them no, they just said, "But, Daddy, Iwantit...Iwantit...Iwantit," and you told them no again, but they just said, "ButDaddy...butDaddy...butDaddy," until you angrily asked them if they wanted to go out and sit in the car, at which point they finally shut up.

Did that ever happen to you, Mike?

Because it's happening to me right now.

I'll say what I said back in post #3. Put it in your signature that nobody should accept anything but a HR24. Start a website. Hell, put a sign on your front lawn to that effect. Do whatever you want to do, but for the here and now, I think we all got your point.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Mike, when your kids were little, did you ever take them to the store and they said, "Daddy, lookatthis...lookatthis...lookatthis," and when you did look at what they wanted and told them no, they just said, "But, Daddy, Iwantit...Iwantit...Iwantit," and you told them no again, but they just said, "ButDaddy...butDaddy...butDaddy," until you angrily asked them if they wanted to go out and sit in the car, at which point they finally shut up.
> 
> Did that ever happen to you, Mike?
> 
> ...


Great idea. :lol:


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Great idea. :lol:


Sometimes I'm stupidly smart. :grin:

Mike Greer says nobody should accept a DVR other than a HR24.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

This thread has entered the circular argument zone long ago. :beatdeadhorse:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I know it sounds like I obsess about... the 'protective' club trying down-play the trouble....


I'll go so far as to say "you are" and have gone way beyond "sounds like".

What "we don't like" is you telling "us" how bad our receivers are that we're using.
You seem to have NO CLUE how our receivers ARE working, yet simply keep posting YOUR OPINION of how ours are working.

How many months ago did "we get" that you didn't like your receivers?

Now where the hell is the beating a dead horse icon?

Ah here: :beatdeadhorse:

And for those that know me, stay off my lawn too. :lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Ok – I am a broken man. You have finally convinced me of the following facts:

The HR21/22/23 receivers are fine receivers. Anyone that has had problems with ‘slowness’, ignored or delayed remote response and/or problems even setting series recordings in the guide are just fools that don’t know what they are doing.

The HR21 is an upgrade to an HR20. Anyone that thinks the HR20 is better than an HR21/22/23 is clearly delusional.

The HR24 receivers are not all that much better than the HR20/21/22/23 and new subs don’t need to worry about it. It’s all good.

All the rave reviews in the ‘1st look for the HR24’ were done mostly tongue-in-cheek. The real advantage to them is the slimmer case and cool new look.

If, on the crazy chance, I have a failed HR24 it is ok for DirecTV to send me an HR22 to replace it. They really are about the same anyway.

Thanks for setting me straight. I was confused and now I have seen the light. And damn the punch is good and tasty!

I just wish you all would have set me straight before I paid good money for those only a little faster HR24s. That cash could have been better spent on therapy or counseling. Oh well, better late than never.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike, you may need to check your meds.
While I don't always agree with everyone, I try to find some middle ground where both sides can exist and find some agreement.
You had every right to start this thread, and all I was only looking for was some "shading" from your extreme position.


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nice try at twisting what was said....but no one will fall for that in a second. :nono2:
> 
> The only one who uses the slow word around here is you - coincidence - I think not.
> 
> ...


I would fall for it, and don't see any twisting whatsoever. You clearly stated the performance differences between the HR20 and the HR21 were so slight that they should be considered negligible and that with the addition of the larger HD the HR21 should actually be considered an upgrade.

I also use the "SLOW" word, since my HR-22 is ridiculously, laughably slow compared to my new HR-24. So he's not alone, just more enthusiastic about trying to get the message past the spin doctors.

Just in case anyone needs reminded, this is what was published in the first look for the HR-24 as the only MAJOR difference between it and it's predecessors:



> _Now the major difference: speed! Raw, unmitigated quickness is evident through every single moment using these boxes. The UI responds instantly to nearly any possible command - menus pop up, pages scroll as fast as you can press the button, even a unified Playlist of several terabytes' worth of programming scrolls through like lightning. Direct channel changes with the remote are quick and accurate, and channels change as fast as the HDMI handshake with the attached set will allow._


Perhaps it should have just stated:


> _Using faster chipsets and video processors than found in previous H2x generation units, the H24-100 *only slightly *outperforms any of its older brethren, *but not to the point where you should be concerned about which receiver you get for your money... *_


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Unless you happen to be that new sub!
> 
> Back to the beginning - I know it is not popular here but I don't see a problem telling the CSR that takes your order to put in the 'notes' that you only want HR24s. If they don't have them then just wait until they do. If the installer still shows up without HR24s then the installer wasted their time and the new subs time.
> 
> I think DirecTV also needs to create a new group of receivers for the HR24. I for one would even be willing (as I have shown) to pay a little more to avoid the pre-HR24 world. Maybe they could just charge $250 rather than $200 for the HR24s so that people that care can pay an extra $50 and not have to worry about it. People that don't care can stick with the older ones.


Did you not read the first two sentences in the post that you quoted? :shrug:


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Mike, you may need to check your meds.
> While I don't always agree with everyone, I try to find some middle ground where both sides can exist and find some agreement.
> You had every right to start this thread, and all I was ever looking for was some "shading" from your extreme position.


I don't find his position extreme at all. There is no way I would allow anyone I know to order DirecTV or a new receiver without advising them to demand the 24 seriesr receivers. Anything else is letting them get less value for their money.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Ok - I am a broken man. You have finally convinced me of the following facts:
> 
> The HR21/22/23 receivers are fine receivers. Anyone that has had problems with 'slowness', ignored or delayed remote response and/or problems even setting series recordings in the guide are just fools that don't know what they are doing.
> 
> ...


:scratchin .. no one here has stated that the HR22 is faster than the HR24 .. OR .. that the HR24 is NOT faster than the HR22. No one has called you a "fool." Even you agree that "95% of customers won't know the difference and most won't care." Stick with the 95% and stop calling the 5% the "everyone" and I think you'll be on the same page as folks in this thread.


----------



## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Oh the drama


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Mike Greer said:


> [...]I just wish you all would have set me straight before I paid good money for those only a little faster HR24s. * That cash could have been better spent on therapy or counseling. * Oh well, better late than never.


Well said.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> I don't find his position extreme at all.


Which swing are you talking about?
I didn't use "extreme" until he swung the other way.
He much earlier replied to me that he would "shade" his position to reflect some of our posts trying to bring his posting a bit more center than he'd started out.
I'm not an expert on bipolar but the mood swings in this thread suggest something like that.
No one has ever denied some users are having slower response from their receivers, while other have "merely" pointed out not all of us have this problem.

Where is it that both sides can't be factual and true. This isn't a mutually exclusive condition.


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Which swing are you talking about?
> I didn't use "extreme" until he swung the other way.
> He much earlier replied to me that he would "shade" his position to reflect some of our posts trying to bring his posting a bit more center than he'd started out.
> I'm not an expert on bipolar but the mood swings in this thread suggest something like that.
> ...


From the start of the thread and all throughout, he has asked what was wrong with letting everyone know that 24s are superior and that as a paying, committing user, that is what you should demand? I agree with that philosophy completely.

Furthermore, those who are attempting to down-play the differences now, after so proudly extolling them in the early days and the first-look release, are doing a legitimate disservice to the community of users here and potential passer-bys. Since many of those same users also happen to share a more "mutually beneficial" relationship with DirecTV, I also don't find it totally out of line to question their motives for doing so.

As a more "technically inclined" person, I am often asked for my opinion or impression of various products by family and friends. Never once have I thought to tell someone to take the lesser value of their options because they might not know any better, I might as well tell them to just go by what the salesman tells them.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Oh the drama


!rolling

Bingo. 

Most accurate post to date here.


----------



## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm curious to make sure I'm on the same page what exactly is everyone saying that is so much faster with the HR24's? To be honest I've got 2 HR23's and 1 HR22 and i've never had any trouble with them at all. They're not slow other than sometimes changing channels from SD to HD. All the functions are really quick. I'm basically wanting to know if it is something overall with the receiver exactly or just individual processes that I may not even access that is quicker. I guess I'm not sure what is so much quicker because I don't have any trouble changing channels all my receivers always respond every time I go to change it, I can always do the one touch recording, and absolutly no slowness in responding.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

HR24 - the natural male enhancement.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Huh. I just found this thread. Wonder how I missed it. Haven't read but a few posts and it looks like I missed all the fun. Let me guess: Mike has three 22-100s that are pathetically slow and now he's got a 24 that actually works as they all should. How shocking that someone should have problems with a 100 (haven't tried a 24-100, don't jump on me yet). So who's to blame for Mike's slow 22s? D*? They sent out the specs for the 100 series to all the fine folks that have made them over the years. Can't really blame the manufacturers. 

When Mike started complaining about his 22s I thought he was a tad extreme, but you gotta admit he has stuck to his guns. I admire that. No waffling, no changing stories, no lies, just his outraged opinion. And I believe him. You should all think of how badly we got hosed by the 21 series. The 20-700 should have been followed by better HRs, not the 21s, but something akin to the 24-500 (I do have one of them). D* had those 21s made to their specifications and they probably knew that they would not be up to the 20-700's standards. 

Rich


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

BattleScott said:


> Furthermore, those who are attempting to down-play the differences now, after so proudly extolling them in the early days and the first-look release, are doing a legitimate disservice to the community of users here and potential passer-bys. Since many of those same users also happen to share a more "mutually beneficial" relationship with DirecTV, I also don't find it totally out of line to question their motives for doing so.


Consider that now, after the HR24-500 has had a number of software updates under its belt, that it isn't _as much_ faster as it once was. Software can do that to a device. Ask anyone who had upgraded their iPhone 3G to iOS4 or had a few security updates to their computer operating system.

When it comes to speed, there is also the issue of what you're used to and after you've gone faster/quicker for a while, it becomes "the new standard".

Surely there is a cadre of those giving a decided apologist view with respect to DIRECTV's offerings depending on availability and weather. At the same time, I feel compelled to note that at least for some, the overly rose colored return volleys seem to have decidedly _moderated_.

I think most are in agreement that they can't get the old refurbs out of the system fast enough, but it is something that must be done. Outside of the ones that seem to get the "new shipping box" refurb treatment, nobody is going to suffer horribly if they get a "lesser" model. A few of those lesser models actually have some attractive attributes (ie better RF remote performance).


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> Consider that now, after the HR24-500 has had a number of software updates under its belt, that it isn't _as much_ faster as it once was. Software can do that to a device. Ask anyone who had upgraded their iPhone 3G to iOS4 or had a few security updates to their computer operating system.
> 
> When it comes to speed, there is also the issue of what you're used to and after you've gone faster/quicker for a while, it becomes "the new standard".
> 
> ...


That post simply makes waaaaay too much sense.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OK boys .. get a room. Let's keep this clean, please.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> From the start of the thread and all throughout, he has asked what was wrong with letting everyone know that 24s are superior and that as a paying, committing user, that is what you should demand? I agree with that philosophy completely.
> 
> Furthermore, those who are attempting to down-play the differences now, after so proudly extolling them in the early days and the first-look release, are doing a legitimate disservice to the community of users here and potential passer-bys. Since many of those same users also happen to share a more "mutually beneficial" relationship with DirecTV, I also don't find it totally out of line to question their motives for doing so.
> 
> As a more "technically inclined" person, I am often asked for my opinion or impression of various products by family and friends. Never once have I thought to tell someone to take the lesser value of their options because they might not know any better, I might as well tell them to just go by what the salesman tells them.





dtvmike1652 said:


> I'm curious to make sure I'm on the same page what exactly is everyone saying that is so much faster with the HR24's? To be honest I've got 2 HR23's and 1 HR22 and i've never had any trouble with them at all. They're not slow other than sometimes changing channels from SD to HD. All the functions are really quick. I'm basically wanting to know if it is something overall with the receiver exactly or just individual processes that I may not even access that is quicker. I guess I'm not sure what is so much quicker because I don't have any trouble changing channels all my receivers always respond every time I go to change it, I can always do the one touch recording, and absolutely no slowness in responding.


And here is a snapshot of the whole thing.
One user has a poor experience and another doesn't.

I'm not trying to change the mindset of the first. I've read many posts about this.
What I don't understand about those that have the mindset of the first, is why they can't fathom that some don't have the same experience as the second poster states.

This "issue" isn't absolute white or absolute black, yet a couple of posters have taken this position, which is false.

One side is saying it's gray, as some work fine and we know others haven't, and the other side is staying firm that there is no gray and it's completely black and anyone that says otherwise has some hidden relationship with DirecTV.

Clearly there is no room for any meaningful discussion when one side is so fixed/stubborn/unrealistic.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> Consider that now, after the HR24-500 has had a number of software updates under its belt, that it isn't _as much_ faster as it once was. Software can do that to a device. Ask anyone who had upgraded their iPhone 3G to iOS4 or had a few security updates to their computer operating system.
> 
> When it comes to speed, there is also the issue of what you're used to and after you've gone faster/quicker for a while, it becomes "the new standard".
> 
> ...


What have you done with the real Harsh? And is he ok?

Wait...on second thought, let's keep you instead.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

RobertE said:


> What have you done with the real Harsh? And is he ok?
> 
> Wait...on second thought, let's keep you instead.


I smell a Dish to DirecTV conversion.... :lol:

But I have enjoyed and welcomed the most recent content.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Throughout my day, I see HR20s to HR24s and everything in between.

Is there a difference in speed? Yes.
Does it adversely affect the use of them? From what I've seen no. I adapt to the enviroment. When using a "slower" model (take your pick), I adjust how fast I enter the keys on the remote. It's not that hard. Keep doing rapid fire keypresses and expecting different results each time is just insane.

Getting this bent out of shape over something that is controllable and insignificant can't be healthy on a person either.

It's only TV.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobertE said:


> What have you done with the real Harsh? And is he ok?


I'm sure it has something to do with the new Priceline television ad.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

RobertE said:


> What have you done with the real Harsh? And is he ok?
> 
> Wait...on second thought, let's keep you instead.


:lol: I thought the same thing.

I was about to say, "Harsh, I don't think I've ever typed this to you...Well said, +1."


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> I'm sure it has something to do with the new Priceline television ad.


You're negotiating a new DirecTV subscriber deal?


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Won't be long before this thread fails a CRC Check.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> It would be interesting [to me] to see what your HR22 does in "my world".


Way back, I did offer to take one of Mike's 22s into my home and run it on my system and see if it was slow on my system too. Never got far with that for various reasons.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having owned both...I'm suggesting things were "upgraded" inside the HR21 from the HR20.


Huh? What?

Rich


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

BattleScott said:


> From the start of the thread and all throughout, he has asked what was wrong with letting everyone know that 24s are superior and that as a paying, committing user, that is what you should demand? I agree with that philosophy completely.
> 
> Furthermore, those who are attempting to down-play the differences now, after so proudly extolling them in the early days and the first-look release, are doing a legitimate disservice to the community of users here and potential passer-bys. Since many of those same users also happen to share a more "mutually beneficial" relationship with DirecTV, I also don't find it totally out of line to question their motives for doing so.
> 
> As a more "technically inclined" person, I am often asked for my opinion or impression of various products by family and friends. Never once have I thought to tell someone to take the lesser value of their options because they might not know any better, I might as well tell them to just go by what the salesman tells them.





dtvmike1652 said:


> I'm curious to make sure I'm on the same page what exactly is everyone saying that is so much faster with the HR24's? To be honest I've got 2 HR23's and 1 HR22 and i've never had any trouble with them at all. They're not slow other than sometimes changing channels from SD to HD. All the functions are really quick. I'm basically wanting to know if it is something overall with the receiver exactly or just individual processes that I may not even access that is quicker. I guess I'm not sure what is so much quicker because I don't have any trouble changing channels all my receivers always respond every time I go to change it, I can always do the one touch recording, and absolutly no slowness in responding.





veryoldschool said:


> And here is a snapshot of the whole thing.
> One user has a poor experience and another doesn't.
> 
> I'm not trying to change the mindset of the first. I've read many posts about this.
> ...


This is pretty much it right here. :righton:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Kumbayah


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Kumbayah


Hummmmmmmmm Hummmmmmmmm


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

harsh said:


> Consider that now, after the HR24-500 has had a number of software updates under its belt, that it isn't _as much_ faster as it once was. Software can do that to a device. Ask anyone who had upgraded their iPhone 3G to iOS4 or had a few security updates to their computer operating system.
> 
> *I do consider that now, I have a new HR24 and my existing HR22. The difference is not "slight", it's not "noticable", it's "profound".*
> 
> ...


..


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hummmmmmmmm Hummmmmmmmm


Oh goody, now we're gonna start speaking in tongues!!! :lol:

Rich


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Clearly there is no room for any meaningful discussion when one side is so fixed/stubborn/unrealistic.


The only moderately believable posts that I have seen regarding the "experience" differences you describe are those that acknowledge the issues that are present but indicate that either they don't normally use the device in a manner that would make it an issue (direct channel entry), or that they are not generally bothered by it (scrolling).

When one side consistently diminishes any thread topic that has a negative connotation, either passively or aggressively, there can be no honest discussion. This thread IS a black and white topic. The only answer to Mike's original post is: 
*"NOTHING. The HR24 is a superior piece of hardware to the previous receivers. Everyone should look out for their friends, family and fellow BBS members and make sure they know how to get the best for their dollar."*

Instead, the usual crowd chimed in and tried to dismiss the idea as silly and unneeded. With even moderators of this site attempting to all but discount any appreciable difference in the units.

With that, I think I am now officially done. I had taken a brief hiatus for while to see if things would change here and only returned to share my own story about how to make sure you get an HR24 in the other thread. They have changed a little, but not for the better.

Thanks to everyone who helped with technical things along the way and to those who were willing to engage in honest debates about other things.

There's nothing wrong with being stubborn when you're right.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

BattleScott said:


> There's nothing wrong with being stubborn when you're right.


Then again...."right" is in the eyes of the beholder... 

There are usually at least 2 views on any topic, and they may both be right (to at least some degree).


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Come on, now, group hug.

:group:

Carl to Mike:

I love you, dude.

< _tear_ >


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> The only moderately believable posts that I have seen regarding the "experience" differences you describe are those that acknowledge the issues that are present but indicate that either they don't normally use the device in a manner that would make it an issue (direct channel entry), or that they are not generally bothered by it (scrolling).


I have no idea of where "I fit" into your view of this.
You still seem "fixed" that your view is the only view anyone can have, yet others have different experiences with their units, as I do.
"stubborn" isn't always "right" and may blind someone to the truth.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I've found some good in all this...

I have verified that 21 names doesn't exceed the limit of the Ignore list.

WOO HOO.


----------



## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Kumbayah


More like "Blowin' In The Wind".


----------



## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have been both amused and astonished at this thread. 

Let's play with some numbers and make some educated guesses. If folks have better numbers feel free to plug them in to make your point.

There appear to be approximately 81,000 members to DBSTalk. Let's assume that there are lurkers that don't belong but read the forums, so double the 81,000 to 162,000. Let's generously assume that 70% of them are D* customers. That get's us down to approximately 113,000 members/lurkers. Let's also assume that 60% of them have DVR's. That gets us down to 68,000. Of those 68,000 let's assume that 70% are either happy with their system or are on existing contracts, which gets the remainder down to about 20,000. Of those 20,000 lets also assume that 30% already bought or acquired HR24's, leaving about 14,000 people that are left and otherwise not accounted for in this estimate.

The last that I read D* had approximately 18,000,000 subscribers. My point is that advertising the argument on this thread is woefully ineffective to the subscriber base. So, why don't you take out a half page ad in USA Today or place some ads on CNN, Fox News, SyFy Channel, etc. Your now informed base would certainly grow larger based on the advertising. 

I think that my point in all of this is that this thread is a rant. D* can equip folks as it sees fit. They don't promise everyone HR24's or H24's in their advertising. If folks don't like their equipment they can choose to go elsewhere with their entertainment dollars, but based on how many seem to come back to D*, or else sign up for D* after having other home entertainment options, it certainly seems like D* is at least one of the best options for their money. They can, if they choose, obtain a Hx24 for lease through retail channels for less than $200.00 if they choose to do so. Most folks seem to opt not to do so because they are basically satisfied with their systems/equipment.

:soapbox::rant:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I pulled some comparison numbers off of my HR24-500/HR23-700 comparison video:





Show My Playlist top-to-bottom
HR23-700: 32.5 seconds
HR24-500: 12.5 seconds

So clearly some improvement between the two. I didn't run any other set that could be easily timed.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> I pulled some comparison numbers off of my HR24-500/HR23-700 comparison video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Doug, that, to me shows what I'm talking about. The HR23-700 'hanging up' while you scroll through the guide is the kind of thing I get with my HR22s. Doing the same thing is even worse if you scroll forward in time through the guide and then try to record something. You never know if it 'missed' your button press to record so you hit it again and then it catches up and you have to start over. If you wait, thinking it just needs to catch up, sometimes it does sometimes you have to hit record again because it really did miss your 'R' button....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Mike, you may need to check your meds.
> While I don't always agree with everyone, I try to find some middle ground where both sides can exist and find some agreement.
> You had every right to start this thread, and all I was only looking for was some "shading" from your extreme position.


Thanks for your concern! Wait, how did you know I was on meds?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

BattleScott said:


> I would fall for it, and don't see any twisting whatsoever. You clearly stated the performance differences between the HR20 and the HR21 were so slight that they should be considered negligible and that with the addition of the larger HD the HR21 should actually be considered an upgrade.
> 
> I also use the "SLOW" word, since my HR-22 is ridiculously, laughably slow compared to my new HR-24. So he's not alone, just more enthusiastic about trying to get the message past the spin doctors.
> 
> ...


Thanks - still waiting for him to explain the upgrade - I think most people know the only 'upgrade' was the larger drives.... The other changes were downgrades likely to save money.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> I pulled some comparison numbers off of my HR24-500/HR23-700 comparison video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're using the down arrow in the video. Do you notice any difference if you use the page down button?

Thanks


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks - still waiting for him to explain the upgrade - I think most people know the only 'upgrade' was the larger drives.... The other changes were downgrades likely to save money.


As far as removing OTA...It makes sense. Most users would want their locals via the sats, if available. Why spend extra $ integrating a design less & less people will use. The AM21 is available for the OTA minority.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Did you not read the first two sentences in the post that you quoted? :shrug:


Yep - I did read that - but have you read all the other posts? Clearly there plenty of people here that would rather I don't point out to new subs that the HR24s are what they want.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - I did read that - but have you read all the other posts? Clearly there plenty of people here that would rather I don't point out to new subs that the HR24s are what they want.


Show us "plenty of people" who clearly said they don't want you to share your opinion that HR24s are what new subs want.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

dtvmike1652 said:


> I'm curious to make sure I'm on the same page what exactly is everyone saying that is so much faster with the HR24's? To be honest I've got 2 HR23's and 1 HR22 and i've never had any trouble with them at all. They're not slow other than sometimes changing channels from SD to HD. All the functions are really quick. I'm basically wanting to know if it is something overall with the receiver exactly or just individual processes that I may not even access that is quicker. I guess I'm not sure what is so much quicker because I don't have any trouble changing channels all my receivers always respond every time I go to change it, I can always do the one touch recording, and absolutly no slowness in responding.


If you're good, you're good. Dougs video shows a taste of what I had to deal with when I used the HR22s. Now that the kids are the ones using the HR22s I find watching TV/scheduling recordings etc to be much easier.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Show us "plenty of people" who clearly said they don't want you to share your opinion that HR24s are what new subs want.


This is a long thread with the theme basically being that I'm a nut job that can't get passed my imagined troubles with the HR22s.

I think some of the posts are honest and legit - like me painting with a broad brush but most of the posts don't even deal with my original post....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Huh. I just found this thread. Wonder how I missed it. Haven't read but a few posts and it looks like I missed all the fun. Let me guess: Mike has three 22-100s that are pathetically slow and now he's got a 24 that actually works as they all should. How shocking that someone should have problems with a 100 (haven't tried a 24-100, don't jump on me yet). So who's to blame for Mike's slow 22s? D*? They sent out the specs for the 100 series to all the fine folks that have made them over the years. Can't really blame the manufacturers.
> 
> When Mike started complaining about his 22s I thought he was a tad extreme, but you gotta admit he has stuck to his guns. I admire that. No waffling, no changing stories, no lies, just his outraged opinion. And I believe him. You should all think of how badly we got hosed by the 21 series. The 20-700 should have been followed by better HRs, not the 21s, but something akin to the 24-500 (I do have one of them). D* had those 21s made to their specifications and they probably knew that they would not be up to the 20-700's standards.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Originally Posted by hdtvfan0001 
Having owned both...I'm suggesting things were "upgraded" inside the HR21 from the HR20.



rich584 said:


> Huh? What?
> 
> Rich


Yep - that's what he said. And I thought I was the only nut job around here!:lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

john18 said:


> I have been both amused and astonished at this thread.
> 
> Let's play with some numbers and make some educated guesses. If folks have better numbers feel free to plug them in to make your point.
> 
> ...


What? You'll need to dumb this down a bit for me to understand.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - I did read that - but have you read all the other posts? Clearly there plenty of people here that would rather I don't point out to new subs that the HR24s are what they want.





sigma1914 said:


> Show us "plenty of people" who clearly said they don't want you to share your opinion that HR24s are what new subs want.





Mike Greer said:


> This is a long thread with the theme basically being that I'm a nut job that can't get passed my imagined troubles with the HR22s.
> 
> I think some of the posts are honest and legit - like me painting with a broad brush but most of the posts don't even deal with my original post....


Exactly..."plenty of people" never said it. Quit playing the victim. You started a thread, people didn't rally around you like you wanted, you repeated yourself, contradicted yourself, played the victim, and ranted.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks for your concern! Wait, how did you know I was on meds?


Your mood swings were a clue. :lol:

BTW:
Not too many months ago a local station engineer asked about switching from Dish to DirecTV because they didn't carry one of his channels and I told him to wait for the 24s to come out.

I never disagreed with the idea of wanting to get the 24s over the other models, just the idea that no one should accept anything but a 24 and everyone should be shouting this from the top of their lungs, was my point in my first reply.
Some customers, as you've seen here, would be/are happy with the older models, and of course some aren't.
With the shortage of any HD receivers of late, the customer may prefer having the service installed than not, and be happy with the older receivers.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> With the shortage of any HD receivers of late, the customer may prefer having the service installed than not, and be happy with the older receivers.


Bingo!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Exactly..."plenty of people" never said it. Quit playing the victim. You started a thread, people didn't rally around you like you wanted, you repeated yourself, contradicted yourself, played the victim, and ranted.


Geez - I thought I had issues!:lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Bingo!


Agreed - that _could_ happen


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I admit I feel just a tad bit stronger about the old receivers than the average sub.... But the back-lash and downplay here of the HR24 speed increase says a lot. 

I don't disagree that there are people that would be happy as can be with the HR21/22/23s but I think that if a new sub can avoid the possibility of troubles then why not? I think if you show a new sub Doug's video they'll want an HR24..... Who wouldn't? Why not show them the video?

It's not like I think new subs should be held at gunpoint until they agree to hold out for an HR24. I am just surprised at the number of posts that want to downplay the HR24 speed increases.... 

I don't think EVERYONE is unhappy with their HR21/22/23 but I do think there are a lot people that don't know what they are missing.

On one side we have me... New subs should hold out for HR24s if at all possible. On the other side we have hdtvfan0001... New subs shouldn’t care; the HR24s are only a little faster. He can't even bring himself to say that the HR21/22/23s are slower than the HR20s!

At the end of the day I'll keep telling people that ask me what I think. More than you'd think but not going to cause DirecTV any trouble. That's not my goal. My goal is to be able to tell people that ask they should get DirecTV and they'll be happy but they need to stick with the HR24s. I'll show them Doug's video as an example. It won't keep me awake at night that not everyone feels the same way. When someone posts here asking about an HR24 for their install I’ll tell them the HR24 is a much better receiver and hdtvfan0001 will tell them not to worry about it….

We're talking TV here right?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> On one side we have me... New subs should hold out for HR24s if at all possible. On the other side we have hdtvfan0001... New subs shouldn't care; the HR24s are only a little faster. He can't even bring himself to say that the HR21/22/23s are slower than the HR20s!


I can bring myself to say you twisted virtually everything I've said to date, and also tried to tell multiple posters (not just me) what we all have to be seeing - all of which FUD.

Back to the Ignore list you go.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I can bring myself to say you twisted virtually everything I've said to date, and also tried to tell multiple posters (not just me) what we all have to be seeing - all of which FUD.
> 
> Back to the Ignore list you go.


Well then - let's hear it!:lol:

How did I get off that ignore list anyway?


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Just to recap this thread. 


Mike Greer said:


> It seems that a few people here are taking on the specific task of down-playing the speed differences. Maybe those people should disclose their reasons for doing so? Are they stock holders? Employees?





hdtvfan0001 said:


> This road and the road signs all look too familiar....





Mike Greer said:


> Yep - and the reason I started this was because you and a few others (mostly you)





Mike Greer said:


> On one side we have me... New subs should hold out for HR24s if at all possible. On the other side we have hdtvfan0001... New subs shouldn't care; the HR24s are only a little faster. He can't even bring himself to say that the HR21/22/23s are slower than the HR20s!


Then there's the rest of us that agree that the HR24 is faster than the previous HR boxes but that to say you couldn't possibly be happy with anything other than a 24 is obviously stretching it. Mike clearly agrees. 


Mike Greer said:


> I don't disagree that there are people that would be happy as can be with the HR21/22/23s


And then there's the only *FACTS* presented. 


Doug Brott said:


> I pulled some comparison numbers off of my HR24-500/HR23-700 comparison video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Mike Greer said:


> We're talking TV here right?


This :up: is exactly why MOST people don't care as much as others about the speed differences in THEIR dvr's. MOST people "just watch TV."

Like I said, I wouldn't accept a NEW unit if it is not a 24 because I'm a techie. My parents just got an HR21 and an HR23 and they are happy with them. Go figure.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TITAN_53 said:


> MOST people "just watch TV."
> 
> Like I said, I wouldn't accept a NEW unit if it is not a 24 because I'm a techie. My parents just got an HR21 and an HR23 and they are happy with them. Go figure.


Thank you for your post.


----------



## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm happy with all my DVRs. The fast ones are plenty fast and the slow ones are not so slow as to bother me or my family.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks Rich.


You're welcome and you're not alone. Wish I would have noticed the thread earlier.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> What? You'll need to dumb this down a bit for me to understand.


Plucking numbers out of the air never makes sense. His post was interesting, tho. I'd like to see solid numbers and I'd like to see the spec sheets for the HRs. We're not gonna see either. We don't even know what the proper operating temps are for the various HRs. Well, I do remember Earl posting the proper range of temps for the 20-700s. But a long time has passed since his post and we've not seen any firm number for the temps since Earl posted the 20-700's operating range of temps years ago.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Bingo!


I'm very happy with my 20-700s. What I don't get is why we had to wait almost four years for a faster model.

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Well, I do remember Earl posting the proper range of temps for the 20-700s. But a long time has passed since his post and we've not seen any firm number for the temps since Earl posted the 20-700's operating range of temps years ago.
> 
> Rich


With the move away from Seagate drives, the temp readings have fallen, so "Earl's numbers" may still work for the high side.
My old HR20-700 [Seagate] still runs @ 128º and my HR24-500 runs at 108º.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I'm very happy with my 20-700s. What I don't get is why we had to wait almost four years for a faster model.
> 
> Rich


"I'd guess", just like PCs, four years later has the faster chips cheaper now.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> With the move away from Seagate drives, the temp readings have fallen, so "Earl's numbers" may still work for the high side.
> My old HR20-700 [Seagate] still runs @ 128º and my HR24-500 runs at 108º.


My 20-700s with the Seagate drives, no matter the capacity, run at between 126 to 129 degrees, but the 20-700s that I have put the WD EADS 2TB drives in run at 120. My 24-500 runs at 108 too. But, how are we to know what is the proper range of temps for each model? Apparently D* considers this proprietary information too. Not many electronic devices come with so little information.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "I'd guess", just like PCs, four years later has the faster chips cheaper now.


So why did we have to have slower HRs than the originals? You can buy a faster PC every six months, you never have to wait for years to find a faster PC.

Rich


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Not many electronic devices come with so little information.


 I dunno. We get basically the same info I got with all the stereos I've sold over the years. The difference is if I needed more info, I could get my hands on a service manual. That told me what I needed to know.

The problem, rich584, is we've never seen a service manual for these DVRs and we never will. :nono2:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> So why did we have to have slower HRs than the originals? You can buy a faster PC every six months, you never have to wait for years to find a faster PC.
> 
> Rich


The lease price at first was $300, and then was dropped to $200. Seems like manufacturing costs was the driving factor and may have thought the speed would have been similar, which didn't turn out in the market. [gee did someone buy into the chip maker's "cheaper but the same" pitch?]


----------



## PlanetBill (May 8, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> With the move away from Seagate drives, the temp readings have fallen, so "Earl's numbers" may still work for the high side.
> My old HR20-700 [Seagate] still runs @ 128º and my HR24-500 runs at 108º.


My 20-700 runs seems to run high also, I'll open the cabinet door it sets in from time to time. Thankfully, it hasn't escaped.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> I dunno. We get basically the same info I got with all the stereos I've sold over the years. The difference is if I needed more info, I could get my hands on a service manual. That told me what I needed to know.
> 
> The problem, rich584, is we've never seen a service manual for these DVRs and we never will. :nono2:


So true. Sadly.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The lease price at first was $300, and then was dropped to $200. Seems like manufacturing costs was the driving factor and may have thought the speed would have been similar, which didn't turn out in the market. [gee did someone buy into the chip maker's "cheaper but the same" pitch?]


They may have "thought" the speed would be similar, but don't their engineers "know" pretty quickly when the performance drops off? 
And wouldn't a company that was aware that they were leasing inferior (to the 20-700 and now the 24s) products do something that wouldn't take in the neighborhood of four years to correct the problem (which isn't really that huge a problem when you think about it. I would have been satisfied with the 21-700s if I had never seen a 20-700.)?

But, in the end, it's still all about the money, isn't it? Performance be damned, if the customer will buy it someone will produce and sell it.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

PlanetBill said:


> My 20-700 runs seems to run high also, I'll open the cabinet door it sets in from time to time. Thankfully, it hasn't escaped.


If I remember Earl's post about the 20-700s temp range correctly, it was 126-129. I'm reasonably sure you can exceed that 129 figure without doing any damage. I wouldn't worry unless you're exceeding 135 degrees over a long period of time.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I'd like to see solid numbers and I'd like to see the spec sheets for the HRs. We're not gonna see either.


Spec sheets. Nope.

But then....we have pages and pages of First Looks on every HD DVR to date...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> They may have "thought" the speed would be similar, but don't their engineers "know" pretty quickly when the performance drops off?
> And wouldn't a company that was aware that they were leasing inferior (to the 20-700 and now the 24s) products do something that wouldn't take in the neighborhood of four years to correct the problem (which isn't really that huge a problem when you think about it. I would have been satisfied with the 21-700s if I had never seen a 20-700.)?
> 
> But, in the end, it's still all about the money, isn't it? Performance be damned, if the customer will buy it someone will produce and sell it.
> ...


"Damn bean counters"
As I've posted here several/many times, my HR21-200 simply wasn't that slow. I had it next to my HR20-700 on the same TV, so I'd be used to one and then change over to the other. Remote inputs needed to be slightly slowed down for the 21 and slightly sped up for the 20. I'd see a longer pause in paging through the guide too, but no where near what Doug's test shows for the HR23.
"And then" there always seems to be the idea that the software folks can overcome problems with the hardware.
FWIW the test software on my HR20 is almost too fast right now. Paging through the guide can end up with double pages if I'm not very careful.
This same software on "the snails" wouldn't do this, would be my guess. Will it resolve all their problems? Maybe not, but I'd guess it won't hurt them either.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> As I've posted here several/many times, my HR21-200 simply wasn't that slow. I had it next to my HR20-700 on the same TV, so I'd be used to one and then change over to the other.


Posted the same observations before in other threads...but some folks simply don't want to accept it, no matter how many people say it, or how many times.

Ergo your previous observation that a few know what we see better than what we all do...time to get them all off your lawn.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> They may have "thought" the speed would be similar, but don't their engineers "know" pretty quickly when the performance drops off?
> And wouldn't a company that was aware that they were leasing inferior (to the 20-700 and now the 24s) products do something that wouldn't take in the neighborhood of four years to correct the problem (which isn't really that huge a problem when you think about it. I would have been satisfied with the 21-700s if I had never seen a 20-700.)?
> 
> But, in the end, it's still all about the money, isn't it? Performance be damned, if the customer will buy it someone will produce and sell it.
> ...


OK .. wait a cotton picking minute here .. The HR20-700 came out August 16, 2006. We're not even at the 4 year mark of the introduction of the first HR2x, so to characterize it as taking in the neighborhood of 4 years to "correct the problem" is being disingenuous.

The first HR21 First Look was in February of 2008, so let's assume (I didn't look) that the distribution channel was filling up with HR21s by May 2008 .. That is just over 2 years back. So while I can appreciate your idea, you've doubled the time frame to make it look worse than it really is.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. wait a cotton picking minute here ...


OK, but first you'll need to tell me what's the difference between a cotton picking minute and a New York minute, or for that matter how do each compare to my watch?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> OK, but first you'll need to tell me what's the difference between a cotton picking minute and a New York minute, or for that matter how do each compare to my watch?


That would be the time to move on....


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

a cotton picking minute: slow
New York minute: fast
last minute: short
mi-nute: tiny

Hope this helps.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Posted the same observations before in other threads...but some folks simply don't want to accept it, no matter how many people say it, or how many times.
> 
> Ergo your previous observation that a few know what we see better than what we all do...time to get them all off your lawn.


I got a chance to play with both an HR24 and H24 Saturday night. It was clearly faster (as one would expect), but was it night and day compared to my Hr20-700, H21-200 or HR20-100? No. it wasn't.

Would I prefer it? Yes. (faster is always better). But to characterize the units I have as "turtle like" in comparison is not what I saw.

My experience reflects my previous leanings: if I could get an HR24 at no cost (swap out), I'd take it. If I have to pay to upgrade: not a chance. I'll wait until my HR20-700 dies a natural death, and then hope I get the HR24 as a replacement. I might even consider going 3rd party and trying to get a credit from D*, but when replacing a receiver, I don't think they are likely to go for it. (right now).


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Geez – I was playing around with one the HR22s last night and it was running slower than I have seen it in a while. I could not type in a channel number at any speed and get it change to the channel I wanted. I thought it would be a good time to get a video of it so I ran upstairs to get the camera and what do you know… As soon as I have the camera ready to go it goes back to its normal ‘slowness’ pretty much like Doug’s video…. The ‘Technology Gods’ hate me almost as much as you guys do!

I’m also thinking that maybe what’s worse than the overall speed of the receivers is the ‘pauses’. If the speed was consistently slow and steady I think it would be easier to use. The problems that make me want to smash the remote are mostly wondering if the receiver is ‘pausing’ or did it not get that I hit select? My luck usually means I guess in correctly…. Don't get me wrong - I'm stilling calling the slow but maybe it is the pauses that really get under my skin....

I’ll keep the camera ready.

For those of you that keep telling me people are happy with the HR21/22/23s I don’t disagree - lots of people just don’t care. How many people are using Motorola DVRs on Comcast and not complaining about them? Holy cow now that’s slow!

Talked to one of my clients that I told to they should only take HR24s on their new install. He said the install went well, installer knew what he was doing and installed 2 HR24s an H24 with MRV. He said he asked the installer about requesting the HR24s and the installer said in the notes he wanted only HR24s but because he was doing MRV they use HR24s anyway. Maybe there are more HR24s available around here?

Here’s to hoping all new installs get H24 and HR24s!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Whole-Home installs definitely take priority for the 24s .. perhaps the easier way is to just tell new folks to get whole-home as part of the install.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Whole-Home installs definitely take priority for the 24s .. perhaps the easier way is to just tell new folks to get whole-home as part of the install.


Maybe - I'm sure at the very least it improves your odds....


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. wait a cotton picking minute here .. The HR20-700 came out August 16, 2006. We're not even at the 4 year mark of the introduction of the first HR2x, so to characterize it as taking in the neighborhood of 4 years to "correct the problem" is being disingenuous.


OK, I was a month off the mark, that's hardly disingenuous when you consider I said "in the neighborhood of 4 years". And I did qualify the "problem". By the way, the most accepted definition of "disingenuous" is "insincere". I was quite serious and sincere when I wrote that post.



> The first HR21 First Look was in February of 2008, so let's assume (I didn't look) that the distribution channel was filling up with HR21s by May 2008 .. That is just over 2 years back. So while I can appreciate your idea, you've doubled the time frame to make it look worse than it really is.


And the 20-100 came along right on the heels of the 20-700. I got my first 21-700 in first quarter of 2008. So the string of HRs that are inferior to the 20-700 does have an almost 4 year history. Broken (perhaps, too soon to tell), of course, by the 24s.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> a cotton picking minute: slow
> New York minute: fast
> last minute: short
> mi-nute: tiny
> ...


Thanx, thought I was gonna have to explain the difference in minutes. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

hasan said:


> I'll wait until my HR20-700 dies a natural death


When/if that ever happens to mine, I might actually cry. I love that box <sniff>


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And the 20-100 came along right on the heels of the 20-700. I got my first 21-700 in first quarter of 2008. *So the string of HRs that are inferior to the 20-700 does have an almost 4 year history*. Broken (perhaps, too soon to tell), of course, by the 24s.
> 
> Rich


The HR20-100 was the spring of '07
You say you got your HR21-700 about a year later in '08
Today is '10, so how do you get four years between '08 and '10?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR20-100 was the spring of '07
> You say you got your HR21-700 about a year later in '08
> Today is '10, so how do you get four years between '08 and '10?


My point exactly .. The "problem" didn't exist until 2008 so how could it have taken 4 years to correct?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And the 20-100 came along right on the heels of the 20-700. I got my first 21-700 in first quarter of 2008. So the string of HRs that are inferior to the 20-700 does have an almost 4 year history. Broken (perhaps, too soon to tell), of course, by the 24s.


The HR20-700 & HR20-100 are essentially the same mode from different manufacturers. It's fine to argue that the -100 wasn't built as well, but they are essentially the same specs sent to the manufacturers.

In fact, I believe the HR20-700 production continued until AFTER the HR20-100 production stopped.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> In fact, I believe the HR20-700 production continued until AFTER the HR20-100 production stopped.


I did and moved from Mexico to China about the same time the -100 came along.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR20-100 was the spring of '07
> You say you got your HR21-700 about a year later in '08
> Today is '10, so how do you get four years between '08 and '10?


I was using the date of the 20-700s first being released to now. That's almost four years. In all that time all D* released was HRs that I think were inferior to the 20-700s. That's not including the 24s. How many 20-100s do you have? 

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> My point exactly .. The "problem" didn't exist until 2008 so how could it have taken 4 years to correct?


You are not mentioning the 20-100s for some reason. Remember, I have never had one that worked. That, to me, is an inferior HR. So what do we end up with, a gap of almost four years from the first 20-700 to the 24s. The problem Mike has is the speed of his 22s. I see a larger view of inferior HRs than he does.

Chevrolet did something similar to this a couple years ago. They upgraded one of their car models, I think it was the Malibu, and they made such a big deal out of it that it really got to me. I had to wonder how the folks who had purchased the previous year's models felt about that. Kinda like the folks who purchased (leased) the 23-700s that were so hyped up that we couldn't wait to get one and now see the 24s come out and the 24s seem to be just better all around?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> The HR20-700 & HR20-100 are essentially the same mode from different manufacturers. It's fine to argue that the -100 wasn't built as well, but they are essentially the same specs sent to the manufacturers.
> 
> In fact, I believe the HR20-700 production continued until AFTER the HR20-100 production stopped.


I remember the First Look at the 20-100. I think my post said, "Looks like a TiVo". Sure didn't look like a 20-700 and if the specs were the same the interiors would have looked the same.

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I was using the date of the 20-700s first being released to now. That's almost four years. In all that time all D* released was HRs that I think were inferior to the 20-700s. That's not including the 24s. How many 20-100s do you have?
> 
> Rich


 So you changing this to anything but the HR20-700 has been "inferior"? I'll leave those with their HR20-100 to fight over this with you, as with 2 HR20-700s, I didn't have a need for a HR20-100. My next one was a HR21-200, which came out about 28 months before the HR24.


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You are not mentioning the 20-100s for some reason. Remember, I have never had one that worked. That, to me, is an inferior HR.
> 
> Rich


I've had an HR20-100 since 06 IIRC. I've had exactly 1 problem with it. About a month or so ago I turned it on and had the message that it was scanning the hard drive. This scan ran a few times and then it powered up and still had the recordings. My unit has been nothing but solid since day 1. Don't know what the problems with yours were.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I was using the date of the 20-700s first being released to now. That's almost four years. In all that time all D* released was HRs that I think were inferior to the 20-700s. That's not including the 24s. How many 20-100s do you have?
> 
> Rich


OK this will be my last comment on this as I think this particular argument as gone below the threshold of sanity ..

So let me get this straight .. It's taken DIRECTV 4 years to "correct" a problem .. The 20-700 was released 4 years ago .. so was the 20-700 the problem that was corrected? :scratchin

Even if you want to call the 20-100 inferior, the 20-700 was still around .. It didn't magically go away so I'm really confused as to what needed "correcting" Once the 20-700s were no longer available to you we have the 21/22/23 scenario that most of this thread has complained about .. That didn't start until 2008.

There's a lot of stuff that happened along the way and if 20-700s weren't generally available throughout the first 2 years then I'd buy your argument, but it's almost as if the day the 20-700s were first made available is when the "correcting" needed to start. I just don't buy that argument even remotely.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

TITAN_53 said:


> I've had an HR20-100 since 06 IIRC. I've had exactly 1 problem with it. About a month or so ago I turned it on and had the message that it was scanning the hard drive. This scan ran a few times and then it powered up and still had the recordings. My unit has been nothing but solid since day 1. Don't know what the problems with yours were.


What Rich fails to mention time after time in his anti -100 rants is that he did have infrastructure problems in the beginning that resulted in many -100s "not working".


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

RobertE said:


> What Rich fails to mention time after time in his anti -100 rants is that he did have infrastructure problems in the beginning that resulted in many -100s "not working".


In July of 2010....do the HR20-100's really matter that much anymore anyway?


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Mike Greer said:


> For those of you that keep telling me people are happy with the HR21/22/23s I don't disagree - lots of people just don't care.


So, you're saying that if people are happy with their HR21/22/23, that they must not care?

I have no problems with either of my HR21's. None. Many people do not have any problems with them. The fact that you think everyone must have problems only proves your limited, myopic views.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In July of 2010....do the HR20-100's really matter that much anymore anyway?


Just slightly. They are still being refurbed and sent back out.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> So, you're saying that if people are happy with their HR21/22/23, that they must not care?
> 
> I have no problems with either of my HR21's. None. Many people do not have any problems with them. The fact that you think everyone must have problems only proves your limited, myopic views.


Geez - let's try this. If I say "clouds are in the sky" I suppose you'll find someway to make that out as I am saying "there is no such thing as fog"....

Let me say, just for the record that you care very deeply for your HR21 and it works perfectly. It never slows down. It is so fast that sometimes your dog gets dizzy watching it scroll through the menus. Happy yet?:lol:


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Geez - let's try this. If I say "clouds are in the sky" I suppose you'll find someway to make that out as I am saying "there is no such thing as fog"....
> 
> Let me say, just for the record that you care very deeply for your HR21 and it works perfectly. It never slows down. It is so fast that sometimes your dog gets dizzy watching it scroll through the menus. Happy yet?:lol:


"Meds check please"


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "Meds check please"


I'll keep you posted!


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Are there any videos of the HR24's power?

The only one I found showed scanning through the playlist one show at a time. I'd love to see the guide shown and channel changing speeds.

Honestly, the only thins keeping me on my Hr20-700's are: 1. A 1.5 TB drive full of programming that I'd lose with an HR24 and 2. The need to buy an AM21. (neither of which will be a deal-breaker in the long term).


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Are there any videos of the HR24's power?
> 
> The only one I found showed scanning through the playlist one show at a time. I'd love to see the guide shown and channel changing speeds.
> 
> Honestly, the only thins keeping me on my Hr20-700's are: 1. A 1.5 TB drive full of programming that I'd lose with an HR24 and 2. The need to buy an AM21. (neither of which will be a deal-breaker in the long term).


I linked to one about a thousand posts back.


----------



## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In July of 2010....do the HR20-100's really matter that much anymore anyway?


As the owner of three, in a word, yes. With the only advantage of the HR24 I've seen reported being speed. I would not trade my 20s for that reason only. I"ll take my owned, large HDD, OTA tuner boxes over a bump in speed any day. I am not one of those that believe speed is the Holy Grail for DVRs. Let me add that if I had the slowness issues as bad as others report I would have replaced them in a "New York" minute long ago. I'll keep what I have until something comes along with a lot more new features than just speed.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Geez - let's try this.  If I say "clouds are in the sky" I suppose you'll find someway to make that out as I am saying "there is no such thing as fog"....
> 
> Let me say, just for the record that you care very deeply for your HR21 and it works perfectly. It never slows down. It is so fast that sometimes your dog gets dizzy watching it scroll through the menus. Happy yet?:lol:


Mike -- It's good to see someone still fighting the good fight. I tip my hat.

I heard a rumor somewhere that there are highly compensated PR firms that surreptitiously post to public internet forums to "shape" public opinion in order to advance the interests of certain large corporations. Sounds crazy, huh?

I also heard another rumor that some of the people employed by those firms adopt multiple personas, and then post thousands of posts, sometimes viciously attacking posters who don't toe the "company line."

I personally think such rumors are just wild conspiracy theories of crazy people. But I wanted to warn you in case your "meds" ran low.

[Mod Edit: Redacted]


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

drpjr said:


> As the owner of three, in a word, yes. With the only advantage of the HR24 I've seen reported being speed. I would not trade my 20s for that reason only. I"ll take my owned, large HDD, OTA tuner boxes over a bump in speed any day. I am not one of those that believe speed is the Holy Grail for DVRs. Let me add that if I had the slowness issues as bad as others report I would have replaced them in a "New York" minute long ago. I'll keep what I have until something comes along with a lot more new features than just speed.


That's actually a refreshing post.

It seems that your HR20-100's not only perform to your satisfaction, but also satisfy your needs in terms of OTA and storage. I'd also agree with you that change just for the sake of change has little value, especially if you are in good shape as you are now.

That's all good!


----------



## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

My HR20-100 performs fine and has always done so. It is a little slower than the -700 but faster than the HR22-100. 

And none of them are so slow as to be a problem.


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> I heard a rumor somewhere that there are highly compensated PR firms that surreptitiously post to public internet forums to "shape" public opinion in order to advance the interests of certain large corporations. Sounds crazy, huh?
> 
> I also heard another rumor that some of the people employed by those firms adopt multiple personas, and then post thousands of posts, sometimes viciously attacking posters who don't toe the "company line."
> 
> I personally think such rumors are just wild conspiracy theories of crazy people. But I wanted to warn you in case your "meds" ran low.


Seems to me like that could go both ways. Everyone with negative things to say about a company must be hired by that company's competitors to get on the internet and talk bad about them. Thanks for clearing that up for me. We should all just give up on User Forums all together.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

paulman182 said:


> My HR20-100 performs fine and has always done so. It is a little slower than the -700 but faster than the HR22-100.
> 
> And none of them are so slow as to be a problem.


So based on the last few HR20-100 user testimonies...it would seem that reports of the HR20-100's demise or death have been premature.

Good to know more folks continue to satisfactorily use those units. Thanks for sharing.

Two quick questions:

1) Do you use the OTA capability with any regularity?

2) Do you use an external/large hard drive for storage?

Those appear to be 2 key repeated "values" that users report....wondering if those hold true there as well.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So you changing this to anything but the HR20-700 has been "inferior"? I'll leave those with their HR20-100 to fight over this with you, as with 2 HR20-700s, I didn't have a need for a HR20-100. My next one was a HR21-200, which came out about 28 months before the HR24.


Didn't change anything. I've always thought that the HRs that came after the 20-700s were inferior to them. Cosmetically, there is no doubt that the whole 21 series is better looking, but aside from that, I'd much rather have the 20-700s.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> What Rich fails to mention time after time in his anti -100 rants is that he did have infrastructure problems in the beginning that resulted in many -100s "not working".


That's not true in most cases. They just didn't work. Most couldn't even be activated. But I never had a new 20-100. None of the 21-100s (and I got them after my system was rebuilt) that I got as replacements worked and I even bought a couple at Costco that didn't work. The 22-100 that I bought worked splendidly for a little over a week and after three weeks it was unusable.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In July of 2010....do the HR20-100's really matter that much anymore anyway?


Ah, a sane post! I do think they matter a bit in the context of this thread, but not in real life.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Ah, a sane post! I do think they matter a bit in the context of this thread, but not in real life.
> 
> Rich


It was a question....in the context of the posts at that time, which inferred they were both scarce and not used as much, not to mention laden with "issues".

Since then, others have chimed in with updated information.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Are there any videos of the HR24's power?
> 
> The only one I found showed scanning through the playlist one show at a time. I'd love to see the guide shown and channel changing speeds.
> 
> Honestly, the only thins keeping me on my Hr20-700's are: 1. A 1.5 TB drive full of programming that I'd lose with an HR24 and 2. The need to buy an AM21. (neither of which will be a deal-breaker in the long term).


If it helps you, I'm kinda at a loss as to what to do with my 24-500. I didn't really need it, but I was curious and the price was right ($0.00) so I took it and all I use it for is Yankees games and as a portal to my 20-700s. It's in a room where I don't want to stick a noisy eSATA on it. But, it is nice looking and it seems to work well. If I just owned it. Wonder how much D* would sell me one for? Might go that route, can't figure out a way to get an owned one any other way. My 20-700s work almost as well and the two I have with the 2TB WD EADS HDDs in them are silent.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It was a question....in the context of the posts at that time, which inferred they were both scarce and nor used, not to mention laden with "issues".
> 
> Since then, others have chimed in with updated information.


Not as many as usual. I'm still surprised by how many people actually have functioning 100s. But some had to work.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Not as many as usual. I'm still surprised by how many people actually have functioning 100s. But some had to work.
> 
> Rich


Quite true...and also what prompted the question, as up until that point, in reading the thread on posters commenting specific to that model unit, you'd get the impression there were not many, nor were they working well. Since then, we've seen additional input/feedback.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Mike -- It's good to see someone still fighting the good fight. I tip my hat.


Me too. Mike's never wavered in his opinion.



> I heard a rumor somewhere that there are highly compensated PR firms that surreptitiously post to public internet forums to "shape" public opinion in order to advance the interests of certain large corporations. Sounds crazy, huh?


Not at all crazy. I was trained as a moderator/facilitator by a major corporation to be able to oversee meetings in such a way that the corporation's viewpoints were clear and agreed upon. Before anyone goes nuts, I'm talking about a Machiavellian corporation, not this forum and not our moderators. I hope.



> I also heard another rumor that some of the people employed by those firms adopt multiple personas, and then post thousands of posts, sometimes viciously attacking posters who don't toe the "company line."


There used to be a guy who regularly posted on that never ending thread about the DLBs that has not shown up in a long time. I always wondered about him.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Oliver Stone......

Paging Oliver Stone......


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Quite true...and also what prompted the question, as up until that point, in reading the thread on posters commenting specific to that model unit, you'd get the impression there were not many, nor were they working well. Since then, we've seen additional input/feedback.


Every time I bring up my personal dislike of the 100s some folks reply in a positive manner about them. As I said, some of them had to work. Just because I never got one to work...

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Oliver Stone......
> 
> Paging Oliver Stone......


He might have been a little wacky, but he sure made good movies.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> He might have been a little wacky, but he sure made good movies.
> 
> Rich


Especially about conspiracies and devious plots....


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'll leave those with their HR20-100 to fight over this with you


That wasn't so bad. Just the usual guys who have been fortunate enough to get 100s that actually work.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Especially about conspiracies and devious plots....


Yeah. I can't think of a movie he made that I didn't enjoy. Doesn't mean that I believed them. I don't think that anyone such as _Laura Croft_ exists, but I enjoyed those movies too.

Rich


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> I heard a rumor somewhere that there are highly compensated PR firms that surreptitiously post to public internet forums to "shape" public opinion in order to advance the interests of certain large corporations. Sounds crazy, huh?


Back before the Internet these were called whispering campaigns. Imagine you are a New York clothing designer and you want to get some street buzz for your latest designs. You'd hire a couple to go ride elevators all over Manhatten. When people got in, they'd start talking about that great new dress they saw someone wear that was designed by XYZ. If everything worked right, soon XYZ would have the name as the hottest designer in New York. Get that hype in a fashion magazine or gossip column and you could raise fake rumors in an elevator to national news.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> That wasn't so bad. Just the usual guys who have been fortunate enough to get 100s that actually work.
> 
> Rich


You got to love the web. 
We see posts ranging from -5 to 0 to +5 on a subject and the majority may be in the middle, yet we also get the anonymous "tinfoil hats" that promote some conspiracy about anyone that doesn't completely agree with "their position".
Ah yes this is a sinister plot and everyone is simply lying to promote a hidden agenda, and none of this has anything to do with their actual experiences.


----------



## VonDarkmoor (Sep 20, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I bet a large majority of D* customers wouldn't even notice the difference. I thought the D* DVR was faster than my old Tivo and I was excited when I switched from cable. My receiver was an R22, and I was delighted.


Not sure what DVR you are using but for me, when my old D* TIVO died and I got an HR21, I thought it was defective for sure. The navigation lag was literally 15-30 seconds from remote input to viewable results onscreen.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

TITAN_53 said:


> Seems to me like that could go both ways. Everyone with negative things to say about a company must be hired by that company's competitors to get on the internet and talk bad about them. Thanks for clearing that up for me. We should all just give up on User Forums all together.


That would be a different service and probably costs extra. :lol:

Personally, I receive no compensation, nor any freebie "evaluation" equipment, from D* or any of its competitors. My views are mine and mine alone.

I suspect that is true for Mike as well (but don't know for sure).


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Without calling the 21s fast, there was definitely a period of a couple of months where there was a significant problem. All I could do at the time was say that help was coming. This, IMHO, is where the biggest reason to dislike the 21s (and by extension the 22s and 23s) because slow was snail-paced-slow. That particular problem was fixed resulting in the normal "slow" that folks are bemoaning today. Perception dies hard .. Folks can be happy with the 21s and yes the 24s are faster.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Without calling the 21s fast, there was definitely a period of a couple of months where there was a significant problem. All I could do at the time was say that help was coming. This, IMHO, is where the biggest reason to dislike the 21s (and by extension the 22s and 23s) because slow was snail-paced-slow. That particular problem was fixed resulting in the normal "slow" that folks are bemoaning today. Perception dies hard .. Folks can be happy with the 21s and yes the 24s are faster.


I agree that perception dies hard - that's for sure. I also remember my HR22s getting so slow during that time period that I even checked out Comcast (again). The normal slow is usable most of the time but still annoys me (and others!) but now that's the kid's problem - I use the HR24s!

Folks can be happy with the 21/22/23s - they can just be more happy with the HR24s!:lol:


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Personally, I receive no compensation, nor any freebie "evaluation" equipment, from D* or any of its competitors. My views are mine and mine alone.


So the question would be, *IF* you did get some sort of "evaluation" equipment would that be enough to sway your views?

If not, then why assume that because someone else did get "evaluation" equipment that they would change theirs?

Directv gives out free equipment to customers that aren't on forums also for varying reasons. Do we think that all of those customers feel obligated to "talk good" about Directv just because they got free equipment?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

TITAN_53 said:


> So the question would be, *IF* you did get some sort of "evaluation" equipment would that be enough to sway your views?
> 
> If not, then why assume that because someone else did get "evaluation" equipment that they would change theirs?
> 
> Directv gives out free equipment to customers that aren't on forums also for varying reasons. Do we think that all of those customers feel obligated to "talk good" about Directv just because they got free equipment?


I think it is perfectly normal to go 'easy' on anyone that gives you free stuff. Not necessarily an evil thing. People are much more likely to have good things to say about their friends and are more likely to leave out the unpleasant information about their 'friends'. Doesn't always work that way I'm sure but happens a lot.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Careful here. This is a slippery slope, questioning fellow posters' motives, good or bad.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Careful here. This is a slippery slope, questioning fellow posters' motives, good or bad.


Huh? People question my motives all the time. It's the way it should be. People shouldn't take other peoples posts as gospel just because they posted it....


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike, if this thread has proven one thing, is that you are a true believer. You take a position and stay with it. Your motives are clear.

What I'm talking about here are hidden agendas. Your feelings are anything but hidden.

I'm not stupid or naive enough to believe a lot I read on the Internet. Much is up to interpretation. And I'm certainly not a moderator here, which was probably the biggest mistake with my last post.

I just think that both you, Mike, and VOS, to name two posters who pop to mind, are good people who sincerely believe your positions. I think it's best to leave it there.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Huh? People question my motives all the time. It's the way it should be. People shouldn't take other peoples posts as gospel just because they posted it....


Let's not mix up "Motives" with opinions/positions/views.
One should keep the "tin hats" off and merely view everyone's posts with a "grain of salt" and use our own common sense.


----------



## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I think it is perfectly normal to go 'easy' on anyone that gives you free stuff. Not necessarily an evil thing. People are much more likely to have good things to say about their friends and are more likely to leave out the unpleasant information about their 'friends'. Doesn't always work that way I'm sure but happens a lot.


Wow. All of the CE testers that were around in the beginning were totally mislead about getting the CE software updates? I thought it was our "job" to use (and abuse) the software to make it break and then report that we indeed caused the software to break and explain how and why we did it.

The CE'ers did not go easy on D*. We did however recognize that D* was trying to fix the problems with their products and volunteered to help them get more data on how the software did, or didn't, work in a real environment.

We didn't go "easy" on D* then and we don't now. For that, along with our collectively countless hours of testing, D* has learned to respect and utilize our efforts to aid in bringing much better service to the customers than had been possible before the CE program came into being. The fact is that D* had to recognize ** us ** as an asset to them, other than the obvious monetary asset of being another paying customer.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"What's wrong":

Poster A says model X sucks.
Poster B says they have the same model and it doesn't suck.

Are either poster wrong? 

I doubt it, as it's their experience/view of their model.

Now what is wrong is to have either A or B keep telling the other that they are wrong/have some hidden agenda/work for "X company" and are simply misleading everyone.

While I may not have had the problem as another poster has, it doesn't make their problem "untrue", and if the shoe is on the other foot, those that have a problem should realize others may NOT have them.

Where is it that there is no middle ground here and everyone must absolutely be on one side or the other?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Mike, if this thread has proven one thing, is that you are a true believer. You take a position and stay with it. Your motives are clear.
> 
> What I'm talking about here are hidden agendas. Your feelings are anything but hidden.
> 
> ...


Didn't mean to imply you beleived all you read... Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

john18 said:


> Wow. All of the CE testers that were around in the beginning were totally mislead about getting the CE software updates? I thought it was our "job" to use (and abuse) the software to make it break and then report that we indeed caused the software to break and explain how and why we did it.
> 
> The CE'ers did not go easy on D*. We did however recognize that D* was trying to fix the problems with their products and volunteered to help them get more data on how the software did, or didn't, work in a real environment.
> 
> We didn't go "easy" on D* then and we don't now. For that, along with our collectively countless hours of testing, D* has learned to respect and utilize our efforts to aid in bringing much better service to the customers than had been possible before the CE program came into being. The fact is that D* had to recognize ** us ** as an asset to them, other than the obvious monetary asset of being another paying customer.


Must need to take my pills - not sure how this relates?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "What's wrong":
> 
> Poster A says model X sucks.
> Poster B says they have the same model and it doesn't suck.
> ...


Agreed - and I am trying to remember not everyone thinks their receivers are slow....


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Mike Greer said:


> .................


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


>


Ah - we finally agree on something!


----------



## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Must need to take my pills - not sure how this relates?


Try this, or do I need help with either pills or reading comprehension?



Mike Greer said:


> I think it is perfectly normal to go 'easy' on anyone that gives you free stuff. Not necessarily an evil thing. People are much more likely to have good things to say about their friends and are more likely to leave out the unpleasant information about their 'friends'. Doesn't always work that way I'm sure but happens a lot.


----------



## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So based on the last few HR20-100 user testimonies...it would seem that reports of the HR20-100's demise or death have been premature.
> 
> Good to know more folks continue to satisfactorily use those units. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> ...


I have a -100 and a a -700.

1) OTA use is infrequent. I just use it as a backup for when there are issues such as severe weather or other infrequent transmission issues. However, even though I use it infrequently, I'm glad I have OTA for the times that I do need and use it.
2) Nope. Still stock on both units.

I will say that speed is OK with both of them. However, as I've mentioned before, I do not 'surf' much. I normally record everything and watch it from the DVR hard disk. It may be that my type of use/activity is partially why I'm OK with the speed of my units. It sounds to me that most of the speed issues people bring up are related to channel surfing, changing, etc. Since I don't do that, I don't have those issues. Just a thought.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I'm in the same boat as lflorack. But I record tons of stuff OTA, I never surf, and I'm almost always watching recordings and not live tv. The only type of surfing I do if ever is guide surf, which is the only way I have ever done it since 1997 when I 1st got Direct...If I am ever at someone else's place and they do tend to channel surf (and lets face it if they do it, they do it constantly, we all have a few friends like that), I just want to take my own life because if you're not the one driving its one of the most irritating things to have to sit through...:lol:

Back to the point, while the HR24's may be the fastest, the way I use my units slowness is not an issue, and I even have a 22...


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah .. I think {LIST} -> Choose -> {PLAY} folks probably will have much less aversion to the slower models than {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> repeat and {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> repeat users.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Yeah .. I think {LIST} -> Choose -> {PLAY} folks probably will have much less aversion to the slower models than {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> repeat and {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> repeat users.


Other than forgetting the fabric softener...I think you have the full cycle covered.


----------



## Jurio (Jan 7, 2010)

what is the hard drive size of these DVR's? still only 500gb?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jurio said:


> what is the hard drive size of these DVR's? still only 500gb?


The HR24 series have 500GB drives internal, and also have eSata ports for external drives up to 2TB.


----------



## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So based on the last few HR20-100 user testimonies...it would seem that reports of the HR20-100's demise or death have been premature.
> 
> Good to know more folks continue to satisfactorily use those units. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> ...


A couple of lesser features that I really like are the external RF antenna and the side vents which are great when stacking components. Also I do use OTA regularly and I use internal TB+ hard drives. I have to put my .02c in now and again. I just can't let rich584 run amuck around here completely unchecked.


----------



## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Every time I bring up my personal dislike of the 100s some folks reply in a positive manner about them. As I said, some of them had to work. Just because I never got one to work...
> Rich





rich584 said:


> That wasn't so bad. Just the usual guys who have been fortunate enough to get 100s that actually work.
> Rich


I do try and limit how often I defend my 100s. I always worry I'm the guy trying to tell people how great the Chevy Vega was.:lol: I wish I had more first hand experience with several different models. As it is I can ony go with what I know and that's the widely scorned HR20-100. Keep it under your hat but I'm part of the conspiracy.


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yeah .. I think {LIST} -> Choose -> {PLAY} folks probably will have much less aversion to the slower models than {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> {GUIDE} -> Browse -> {SELECT} -> repeat and {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> {CHANNEL UP/DOWN} -> stop -> repeat users.


Don't foget the {2}, ^%$^%$ nothing,{2} ^&%%$% 222, {2}{7} ^%^%damnit, aww screw it {guide} {scroll}{WAIT}{SCROLL}{SCROLL}{WAITSOMEMORE}{SCROLL}DSCHD{SELECT} Users!

In case it's not clear, that's someone attempting to type channel 278 on the remote to change to channel 278 but since that won't work, they have to scroll through 400 channels in the guide to get there...!

Sorry, I'm not real sure what the laundry related suck-up analogy would be for that...

Mike, you're the man! Don't let 'em get you down!


----------



## TITAN_53 (Jul 23, 2007)

I just fired up my HR21-:eek2:100:eek2: because of this thread just to see how it responds. I've used the menu, guide (regular and mini), list (which is a UPL of 5 DVR's), I've keyed in 2, 3 and 4 digit channels. This is while recording and 4% free space on the HDD. I can't *MAKE* this thing miss a key press and this is with using 3 of my fingers to key in the digits *AS FAST AS MY FINGERS WILL ALLOW*. The only place I've seen any slowdown is in scrolling through the UPL.

I'm not naive enough to think that just because mine works fine that everyone else's must've worked or does work fine also or that because other people have problems with them that I must've just gotten lucky enough to end up with the only good one. Unfortunately some people *ARE* that naive.

Some people have problems, others don't. This is *ELECTRONICS* we are talking about. What out there has a 0% failure rate?


----------



## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

For me the HR22's speed was acceptable - until MRV got involved. Then just selecting a recording from the playlist became a chore, and I could grab a soda before a MRV show began playing after selecting it. 

I did have trouble entering channel numbers, but it improved after a certain firmware update.

The HR24 makes everything fast and responsive like it should be. The ability to page through the guide as breakneck speeds is an added bonus.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TITAN_53 said:


> I just fired up my HR21-:eek2:100:eek2: because of this thread just to see how it responds. I've used the menu, guide (regular and mini), list (which is a UPL of 5 DVR's), I've keyed in 2, 3 and 4 digit channels. This is while recording and 4% free space on the HDD. I can't *MAKE* this thing miss a key press and this is with using 3 of my fingers to key in the digits *AS FAST AS MY FINGERS WILL ALLOW*. The only place I've seen any slowdown is in scrolling through the UPL.
> 
> I'm not naive enough to think that just because mine works fine that everyone else's must've worked or does work fine also or that because other people have problems with them that I must've just gotten lucky enough to end up with the only good one. Unfortunately some people *ARE* that naive.
> 
> Some people have problems, others don't. This is *ELECTRONICS* we are talking about. What out there has a 0% failure rate?


You simply don't realize it's defective and broken.


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

rich584 said:


> Not as many as usual. I'm still surprised by how many people actually have functioning 100s. But some had to work.
> 
> Rich


I still have my 3 HR20-100's. All were either used or refurbs (from DirecTV and other sources) and all are owned and they have been flawless for the years I have had them. They are all fast with virtually instant response to the remotes both RF and IR, channel change is fast and the guide speed is very acceptable ( rarely use the guide anyway) and work flawlessly with (ethernet) MRV.

I also have 1 HR20-700 which is my only leased box and that has been fine as well. Other than the hard-drive noise which seems to have disappeared I have no complaints with any of them.

While I certainly wouldn't refuse HR24's if given to me for nuttin' (I love the smell of new equipment in the morning) I could live with these for years to come and would request them as replacements if needed through the PP because of the built-in OTA.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

drpjr said:


> I do try and limit how often I defend my 100s. I always worry I'm the guy trying to tell people how great the Chevy Vega was.:lol: I wish I had more first hand experience with several different models. As it is I can ony go with what I know and that's the widely scorned HR20-100. Keep it under your hat but I'm part of the conspiracy.


Please don't get the impression from what other folks imply that I don't believe you. I do and I've always believed the folks that say they have 100s running well. It's just an experience I've never had.

Rich


----------



## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

My parents have a Directv HD HVR (no clue what model) and I have noticed on several occasions while using their system the performance is dreadful. Pulling up and scrolling through the guide is pathetic. It makes my Dish VIP 622 seem light speed.

I decided to jump to Direct the other day and have an install appointment on Monday. I put a note for the installer that I wanted the latest equipment. The last thing I want is more 3 year old equipment. I thought I read that if you are getting multi-room option you WILL get the 24? How can I identify it to be sure?

Jon


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

poppin_fresh said:


> My parents have a Directv HD HVR (no clue what model) and I have noticed on several occasions while using their system the performance is dreadful. Pulling up and scrolling through the guide is pathetic. It makes my Dish VIP 622 seem light speed.
> 
> I decided to jump to Direct the other day and have an install appointment on Monday. I put a note for the installer that I wanted the latest equipment. The last thing I want is more 3 year old equipment. I thought I read that if you are getting multi-room option you WILL get the 24? How can I identify it to be sure?
> 
> Jon


I was in the same position a few years back. I had a couple of 622s that worked well. I didn't even think to compare the speed of the HRx series before making the switch. Well, as you can see here I wasn't happy. The HR22s I got were much slower (and still are). If I had been using Comcast Motorola boxes I would have thought the HR22s were a step up in speed. You're doing the right thing going for the HR24. It's crazy that the old 622s (4 years old now?) are so much faster than the HR20/21/22/23s.

I think even the new speed demon HR24s are not as fast as the 622 but it's not all that much of a difference. I stopped by a reseller that had demo receivers and TVs set up. For Dish they had a 622 and for DirecTV a HR24. Speed was pretty close but I think the 622 was just a bit faster&#8230;. Not a deal breaker because they are close enough in speed&#8230;.

If you're getting 'Whole Home DVR' then supposedly your chances are good on the HR24. I'd call a few hours before your install time window and ask to have the installer call you before heading for you. You could then specifically ask the installer if there are HR24s headed your way.

You've seen the DirecTV receivers at your parents so you don't need to take my word for it. I suspect that if you don't get HR24s you'll spend the next 2 years of your DirecTV days wishing that you had 'not accepted' anything other the HR24s.

Good luck - hopefully HR24s are headed your way!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

poppin_fresh said:


> I decided to jump to Direct the other day and have an install appointment on Monday. I put a note for the installer that I wanted the latest equipment. The last thing I want is more 3 year old equipment. I thought I read that if you are getting multi-room option you WILL get the 24? How can I identify it to be sure?
> 
> Jon


If you order whole-home as part of the installation you are SUPPOSED to get 24s. However, this depends on supply and you might get other equipment.

You can identify by (1) asking the installer and (2) reading the model number on the side of the box. You should ask the installer before the installation and if he calls (as he should) before getting to your house, ask him if he has 24s on his truck since you are getting whole home. If not, he may be able to go pick some up before getting to your home.

And lastly ...

This is what an HR24 looks like (the H24s are smaller variants)










This is what an HR21/22/23 looks like










The HR20s are silver versions of the last image above.

Oh, and the model number is printed on the DVR/receiver as well. Just open the access card door on the right side and look under the access card slot. The exact model should be printed there.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> If you order whole-home as part of the installation you are SUPPOSED to get 24s. However, this depends on supply and you might get other equipment.
> 
> You can identify by (1) asking the installer and (2) reading the model number on the side of the box. You should ask the installer before the installation and if he calls (as he should) before getting to your house, ask him if he has 24s on his truck since you are getting whole home. If not, he may be able to go pick some up before getting to your home.
> 
> ...


Nice summary Doug.

So what outstanding questions haven't been answered?

I defer to the OP.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nice summary Doug.
> 
> So what outstanding questions haven't been answered?
> 
> I defer to the OP.


I have plenty of questions that won't get answered but&#8230;. As long as new subs know what they are getting into - especially those coming from Dish Network - I'm happy!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I have plenty of questions that won't get answered but&#8230;. *As long as new subs know what they are getting into - especially those coming from Dish Network - I'm happy*!


That was the intent and goal of my question.

Thanks.


----------

