# SF KRON in talks with NBC



## sum_random_dork

Looks like KRON has reached out to their old partner NBC to help them salvage things. According to reports KRON would enter a shared services agreement with NBC and probably move to the NBC11 studios in SJ. This could be quite interesting being both KRON and NBC11 are the two stations that have almost no newsrooms left. Both have resorted to using "VJs" and grounded their helicopters. Last year there were rumors that ABC/KGO might enter into an agreement with KRON to produce their newscasts, but never happened.


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## Jtaylor1

That means KRON could air NBC programs in case whenever KNTV is unable to do so as in a live news coverage. Newscasts for KRON would be produced by KNTV.


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## phrelin

This is, of course, the ultimate irony.


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## Paul Secic

sum_random_dork said:


> Looks like KRON has reached out to their old partner NBC to help them salvage things. According to reports KRON would enter a shared services agreement with NBC and probably move to the NBC11 studios in SJ. This could be quite interesting being both KRON and NBC11 are the two stations that have almost no newsrooms left. Both have resorted to using "VJs" and grounded their helicopters. Last year there were rumors that ABC/KGO might enter into an agreement with KRON to produce their newscasts, but never happened.


Now that the Young brother made a mess of KRON they're have their hands out trying to strike a deal. I hope the station becomes NBC once again.. As for Young Broadcasting I hope it goes bye bye.


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## sum_random_dork

Reports have it KRON has stopped paying some of their "personal service" contracts to big name anchors (which they really only have 2 big names left). They are also in trouble form the unions becuase they have been using INTERNS to do some on air WX reports. Talk about a low budget large market station..sad how far things have fallen for a while in the mid 90's KRON owned the market.


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## Paul Secic

sum_random_dork said:


> Reports have it KRON has stopped paying some of their "personal service" contracts to big name anchors (which they really only have 2 big names left). They are also in trouble form the unions becuase they have been using INTERNS to do some on air WX reports. Talk about a low budget large market station..sad how far things have fallen for a while in the mid 90's KRON owned the market.


And if the deal falls through Young says they'll the studios & move to a cheaper part of town. Danger lurks for the staff.


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## ziggy29

As a former San Jose resident, I liked it better when KRON was formerly an NBC affiliate and KNTV was with ABC (overlapping with KGO in Santa Clara County and also serving the Salinas-Monterey market), because we had a more San Jose and South Bay oriented newscast instead of yet another one centering on San Francisco.


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## phrelin

ziggy29 said:


> As a former San Jose resident, I liked it better when KRON was formerly an NBC affiliate and KNTV was with ABC (overlapping with KGO in Santa Clara County and also serving the Salinas-Monterey market), because we had a more San Jose and South Bay oriented newscast instead of yet another one centering on San Francisco.


Everyone liked it better that way except perhaps KGO which has become the de facto ABC channel for two DMAs.


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## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> Everyone liked it better that way except perhaps KGO which has become the de facto ABC channel for two DMAs.


They ticked off lots of people who lived in Solano, Napa in the north bay when they couldn't get NBC OTA. KNTV'S transmitters was south of San Jose. In the 60's it didn't come clear in here even with a rotator. Now Monterey- Salinas doesn't have ABC at all, I guess.


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## dirtyblueshirt

Interesting... so with the reduced KNTV newsroom, are KNTV's weathercasts being remotely hosted by Fritz & Pablo in LA like they are here in San Diego?

Of note, it seems KNTV's sportscaster did pretty much all the local news reporting for the Vancouver games in LA and San Diego


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## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> This is, of course, the ultimate irony.


Any news of a deal? Or did they messed that up? In the 90's Young Broadcasting bought KHJ in LA and let that flounder for years, until CBS bought it.. Maybe it was KCAL.


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## phrelin

Paul Secic said:


> Any news of a deal? Or did they messed that up? In the 90's Young Broadcasting bought KHJ in LA and let that flounder for years, until CBS bought it.. Maybe it was KCAL.


No. The last thing I read on the station was this somewhat amusing article on SF Weekly Numerologist No Match for KRON-TV's Rotten Numbers which noted:


> Well, there are numbers and there are numbers. There's the messy bankruptcy KRON's parent company, Young Broadcasting, declared last year. There's the $823 million Young paid for KRON in 1999 -- and the station's current estimated value of $25 to $50 million, as revealed in recently filed bankruptcy documents.


 Things like this shouldn't make me smile, but they do.


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## Paul Secic

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/453668-Gray_TV_Deal_Not_Getting_Any_Young_er.php


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## JackBauer112

dirtyblueshirt said:


> Interesting... so with the reduced KNTV newsroom, are KNTV's weathercasts being remotely hosted by Fritz & Pablo in LA like they are here in San Diego?
> 
> Of note, it seems KNTV's sportscaster did pretty much all the local news reporting for the Vancouver games in LA and San Diego


I think that's why when KRON lost NBC in 2001, it was sad to see that Solano/Napa counties particularly Vallejo, Benecia and Calistoga were screwed out of NBC although KCRA was on cable in these areas, Fairfield/Vacaville/Rio Vista had KRON too, but not KNTV, so the primary NBC station for the area was considered to be KCRA.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> I think that's why when KRON lost NBC in 2001, it was sad to see that Solano/Napa counties particularly Vallejo, Benecia and Calistoga were screwed out of NBC although KCRA was on cable in these areas, Fairfield/Vacaville/Rio Vista had KRON too, but not KNTV, so the primary NBC station for the area was considered to be KCRA.


Fairfield/Vacaville/Rio Vista are in the SF market or the Sacramento market?


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## JackBauer112

runner861 said:


> Fairfield/Vacaville/Rio Vista are in the SF market or the Sacramento market?


Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista are in the Sacramento/Stockton/Modesto Market because of it's proximity to the State Capitol as it's considered Solano County East. Vallejo and Benecia are in the SF Bay Area Market because it's in the Western part of Solano County. That's why in Fairfield, Vacaville and Rio Vista, KCRA is considered to be the Default NBC station since KNTV in San Jose, does not have history in the eastern Solano County area. It would be blacked out by KCRA(p) during network promgramming due to non carriage or history of being in East Solano County.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista are in the Sacramento/Stockton/Modesto Market because of it's proximity to the State Capitol as it's considered Solano County East. Vallejo and Benecia are in the SF Bay Area Market because it's in the Western part of Solano County.


Those stations in the Sacramento market will be unlikely to receive KNTV, since they already have a local NBC affiliate. The cable companies probably had grandfathered permission to carry KRON. So those viewers in Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista had two NBC stations until KRON dropped its NBC affiliation. I assume that Vallejo and Benecia cable systems carry KNTV. The only way that I would see that cable systems in Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista would receive KNTV is if they were already carrying it and had grandfathered permission.

Down in Monterey County many cable companies carried for decades KSBW, the local NBC affiliate, and KRON. However, the Monterey County cable systems were also carrying KNTV. When KNTV became an NBC affiliate, viewers in Monterey County still had two NBC affiliates for a short time. However, most of the cable systems in Monterey County ultimately dropped KNTV, as well as KRON and KPIX. Fortunately, there are still a few cable systems down in Monterey County that carry KRON, KPIX, and KBCW. Almost all the cable systems down there carry KGO and KQED and KTVU.


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## sum_random_dork

Seeing this pop back up not much has changed at KRON, I guess the NBC/KRON shared services talk has been tabled for a while. After Young emerged from BK last month rumors have it they paid $500 to each employee that stayed with them through everything. I know KNTV has been sending NBC programing to KRON when they have Giants games that conflict. I can't say I watch either newscast as both seem to be quite lonely with not many people left. At one point there was also a rumor that KGO was looking at producing the KRON newscasts but I think that has been placed on hold as KGO is working on too many other projects right now lead by Brian Copeland's new 3pm show and a 4pm newscast to replace Oprah hosted by Larry Beil.


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## JackBauer112

runner861 said:


> Those stations in the Sacramento market will be unlikely to receive KNTV, since they already have a local NBC affiliate. The cable companies probably had grandfathered permission to carry KRON. So those viewers in Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista had two NBC stations until KRON dropped its NBC affiliation. I assume that Vallejo and Benecia cable systems carry KNTV. The only way that I would see that cable systems in Cordelia/Fairfield/Suisun City/Vacaville/Rio Vista would receive KNTV is if they were already carrying it and had grandfathered permission.
> 
> Down in Monterey County many cable companies carried for decades KSBW, the local NBC affiliate, and KRON. However, the Monterey County cable systems were also carrying KNTV. When KNTV became an NBC affiliate, viewers in Monterey County still had two NBC affiliates for a short time. However, most of the cable systems in Monterey County ultimately dropped KNTV, as well as KRON and KPIX. Fortunately, there are still a few cable systems down in Monterey County that carry KRON, KPIX, and KBCW. Almost all the cable systems down there carry KGO and KQED and KTVU.


Ironically that Hearst did not want cable companies to carry KNTV because in Sacramento's case, it would infringe on KCRA(p)-TV's rights as if they were to air KNTV on cable, KCRA(p) would blackout NBC programming due to it being far away from San Jose. So in any event, they would never carry KNTV. In Salinas/Monterey, KNTV was their primarily ABC affiliation until 2000 when it was dropped and KGO added a cable-only affiliate to Salinas/Monterey SyndExing out programs that conflict with KSBW, KION, KCBA and MNTV LP station KOTR.

Hearst (Argyle until 2009) owns KSBW, KCRA(p) and sister station KQCA. KSBW was first to be picked up by Hearst in August 1998 in a trade with sister stations WPTZ 5 NBC Plattsburgh, NY and semi-satellite station WNNE Channel 31 NBC in Burlington, VT with WDTN Dayton and WNAC's license from Smith Media LLC/Sunrise Television (now LIN TV) and 5 months later, Kelly Broadcasting went out of the TV business and owned KCRA before it became KCRA(p), KQCA, and KCPQ 13 FOX in Seattle (KCPQ was then sold to current owner Tribune in 1998) while KCRA and KQCA were sold to Hearst (Argyle pre-2009) and are now sharing news resources with each other.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> Ironically that Hearst did not want cable companies to carry KNTV because in Sacramento's case, it would infringe on KCRA(p)-TV's rights as if they were to air KNTV on cable, KCRA(p) would blackout NBC programming due to it being far away from San Jose. So in any event, they would never carry KNTV. In Salinas/Monterey, KNTV was their primarily ABC affiliation until 2000 when it was dropped and KGO added a cable-only affiliate to Salinas/Monterey SyndExing out programs that conflict with KSBW, KION, KCBA and MNTV LP station KOTR.
> 
> Hearst (Argyle until 2009) owns KSBW, KCRA(p) and sister station KQCA. KSBW was first to be picked up by Hearst in August 1998 in a trade with sister stations WPTZ 5 NBC Plattsburgh, NY and semi-satellite station WNNE Channel 31 NBC in Burlington, VT with WDTN Dayton and WNAC's license from Smith Media LLC/Sunrise Television (now LIN TV) and 5 months later, Kelly Broadcasting went out of the TV business and owned KCRA before it became KCRA(p), KQCA, and KCPQ 13 FOX in Seattle (KCPQ was then sold to current owner Tribune in 1998) while KCRA and KQCA were sold to Hearst (Argyle pre-2009) and are now sharing news resources with each other.


Another interesting fact is that KSBY Channel 6 in San Luis Obispo was for many years a simulcast of KSBW Channel 8 from Salinas. There even was an FCC proceeding many years ago questioning whether the license for KSBY should be pulled because the station was nothing more than a simulcast. At that time, in response to the proceeding, KSBY began to air its own newscast. However, it remained a simulcast otherwise. I am not sure when the simulcasting ended, but I believe that the stations now have separate owners, although both remain NBC affiliates.

KSBW and KSBY used to call themselves the Gold Coast Television Network.


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## JackBauer112

> Another interesting fact is that KSBY Channel 6 in San Luis Obispo was for many years a simulcast of KSBW Channel 8 from Salinas. There even was an FCC proceeding many years ago questioning whether the license for KSBY should be pulled because the station was nothing more than a simulcast. At that time, in response to the proceeding, KSBY began to air its own newscast. However, it remained a simulcast otherwise. I am not sure when the simulcasting ended, but I believe that the stations now have separate owners, although both remain NBC affiliates.


KSBW is a Hearst station since Smith (The company that bought KSBW/Y) purchased it in 1995 but had to divest KSBY due to it being owned with KEYT (ABC) in Santa Barbara, KSBY is owned by Evening Post Company (Cordeillia Communications) but despite all of that, they still air the same affiliations and share news resources with each other. Smith/Hearst had to trade WDTN (Then ABC, now NBC) in Dayton, since Hearst owned WLWT in Cincinnati and it overlapped with WDTN and thus they could get both stations, WDTN is now owned by LIN TV.

BTW, when did KNTV get dropped from the Salinas/Monterey Markets on cable?


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> KSBW is a Hearst station since Smith (The company that bought KSBW/Y) purchased it in 1995 but had to divest KSBY due to it being owned with KEYT (ABC) in Santa Barbara, KSBY is owned by Evening Post Company (Cordeillia Communications) but despite all of that, they still air the same affiliations and share news resources with each other. Smith/Hearst had to trade WDTN (Then ABC, now NBC) in Dayton, since Hearst owned WLWT in Cincinnati and it overlapped with WDTN and thus they could get both stations, WDTN is now owned by LIN TV.
> 
> BTW, when did KNTV get dropped from the Salinas/Monterey Markets on cable?


I don't recall the exact date, but it was within a few months of KNTV picking up the NBC affiliation. KNTV was carried on most or all systems in Salinas/Monterey during the time it was with ABC, and during the time it was independent/CW. I recall watching the KNTV 11 o'clock news, then it began its first NBC program--The Tonight Show. That was on cable in Salinas. I believe that it was December 31, 2001.

As a side note, many but not all cable systems in the Salinas/Monterey area also carried KGO during the time that both KNTV and KGO were affiliated with ABC. KNTV did not receive exclusivity in the Salinas/Monterey area following an FCC ruling in around 1978 or 1979, so viewers could choose either KGO or KNTV for ABC programming. Neither station was blacked out.

Anywhere between San Francisco and San Jose generally with a rooftop antenna one could receive both KNTV and KGO OTA. I'm not sure if KNTV was carried on cable in the Bay Area during the time prior to its affiliation with NBC.


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## JackBauer112

> Anywhere between San Francisco and San Jose generally with a rooftop antenna one could receive both KNTV and KGO OTA. I'm not sure if KNTV was carried on cable in the Bay Area during the time prior to its affiliation with NBC.


KNTV used the "Home Country" Rule so they could air ABC programs when it was available to Salinas/Monterey viewers. Most cable systems in San Jose have Channel 11 on Channel 3A Now Channel 3. KNTV now transmits from Mt. San Bruno so coverage will be like a hot potato wherever it may be.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> KNTV used the "Home Country" Rule so they could air ABC programs when it was available to Salinas/Monterey viewers. Most cable systems in San Jose have Channel 11 on Channel 3A Now Channel 3. KNTV now transmits from Mt. San Bruno so coverage will be like a hot potato wherever it may be.


What is the "Home Country" rule?

I recall that KNTV had exclusivity for ABC programming in Salinas-Monterey until around 1978 or 1979, when the FCC ruled that KNTV was not entitled to exclusivity in that area. KNTV in those days had a very limited news operation, with a half-hour news from 5 to 5:30 and then the ABC news at 5:30. In those days the network news on the other affiliates in both Salinas and San Francisco was airing at 6:30 or 7:00. KNTV's local news operation covered nothing in the Salinas-Monterey area. Although KNTV tried to claim it was the ABC affiliate for the Salinas-Monterey area, it provided no local coverage and I believe that its newscast had probably no viewers in Salinas-Monterey. It touted itself as covering the news in Santa Clara County. I wonder why ABC never tried to set up a TV station in Salinas-Monterey. Although it is a small market, it has affiliates of CBS, NBC, and FOX.

Back in the 1970s, Salinas-Monterey also had translator stations on Mt. Toro that retransmitted KTEH and KQED programming to the Salinas-Monterey area. Those stations were both also carried on most cable systems in the area.


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## JackBauer112

runner861 said:


> What is the "Home Country" rule?
> 
> I recall that KNTV had exclusivity for ABC programming in Salinas-Monterey until around 1978 or 1979, when the FCC ruled that KNTV was not entitled to exclusivity in that area. KNTV in those days had a very limited news operation, with a half-hour news from 5 to 5:30 and then the ABC news at 5:30. In those days the network news on the other affiliates in both Salinas and San Francisco was airing at 6:30 or 7:00. KNTV's local news operation covered nothing in the Salinas-Monterey area. Although KNTV tried to claim it was the ABC affiliate for the Salinas-Monterey area, it provided no local coverage and I believe that its newscast had probably no viewers in Salinas-Monterey. It touted itself as covering the news in Santa Clara County. I wonder why ABC never tried to set up a TV station in Salinas-Monterey. Although it is a small market, it has affiliates of CBS, NBC, and FOX.
> 
> Back in the 1970s, Salinas-Monterey also had translator stations on Mt. Toro that retransmitted KTEH and KQED programming to the Salinas-Monterey area. Those stations were both also carried on most cable systems in the area.


The Home Country rule is that a TV station that is licensed to a city (San Jose) should be required for cable systems to carry the affiliate in their home county where the TV station is located (Santa Clara County) but other markets opt to omit from their lineup, and while KNTV's news content consists of Santa Clara County, they sparingly went to Salinas/Monterey, even though they do not mention that they cover that area.

In the 1980's, most cable systems in the Bay Area (except for Santa Clara County) dropped KNTV. The station used the home county rule to remain on the Santa Clara County cable systems. In fact, at one time KNTV was owned by Gill Cable in San Jose.

It was a rare exception to have a station licensed in one DMA, but for network rights was serving another.

Funny thing about that is on air, they were the "South Bay's News Leader" and "The San Jose News Channel" with little or no mention of the Monterey Bay area. They were in fact on cable in Monterey, Santa Cruz and San Benito counties and receivable on the air.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> The Home Country rule is that a TV station that is licensed to a city (San Jose) should be required for cable systems to carry the affiliate in their home county where the TV station is located (Santa Clara County) but other markets opt to omit from their lineup, and while KNTV's news content consists of Santa Clara County, they sparingly went to Salinas/Monterey, even though they do not mention that they cover that area.
> 
> In the 1980's, most cable systems in the Bay Area (except for Santa Clara County) dropped KNTV. The station used the home county rule to remain on the Santa Clara County cable systems. In fact, at one time KNTV was owned by Gill Cable in San Jose.
> 
> It was a rare exception to have a station licensed in one DMA, but for network rights was serving another.
> 
> Funny thing about that is on air, they were the "South Bay's News Leader" and "The San Jose News Channel" with little or no mention of the Monterey Bay area. They were in fact on cable in Monterey, Santa Cruz and San Benito counties and receivable on the air.


KNTV apparently wasn't doing the greatest in the 1980s. First, it lost network exclusivity in the Salinas-Monterey market, then it was removed from most of the cable systems in the Bay Area. So KNTV was missing completely from many Bay Area televisions, and it was competing with KGO without the benefit of network exclusivity in Salinas-Monterey on those cable systems that carried KGO.

KGO, KPIX, and KRON were carried on many but not all cable systems in the Salinas-Monterey market until the mid-1990s. At that time, because of retransmission consent laws, the Salinas-Monterey stations got KGO, KPIX, and KRON removed from the main cable systems in Salinas and Monterey. The Salinas-Monterey stations felt that the San Francisco stations were cutting into their local news viewership. KTVU was not removed because it is "significantly viewed" in Salinas-Monterey, and KQED was also not removed.

KNTV is likely doing much better now as the Bay Area's NBC affiliate. However, San Jose was not a good location for an ABC station with another ABC station located just a few miles north, in San Francisco.

Another interesting fact is that KSBW in Salinas in the early 1980s moved its transmitter from Fremont Peak in Salinas north to the Santa Cruz mountains. This allowed KSBW to directly compete in the Bay Area market OTA, and there were places in the Bay Area where, due to terrain, KSBW actually was more receivable than KRON. I am not sure if KSBW was ever picked up by any Bay Area cable systems.

Shortly following KNTV's transition to NBC, KSBW moved its transmitter back to Fremont Peak.


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## JackBauer112

runner861 said:


> I am not sure if KSBW was ever picked up by any Bay Area cable systems.


KSBW was and today is only recieved in the central and southern portions of Santa Clara County (San Jose, Los Gatos, Saratoga, Campbell, Morgan Hill and Gilroy). It used to pick up their Hearst sister station KCRA in the 1970s and 80s before it had the SyndEx rule preventing them from being carried on cable. KSBW from 1985-2000 was transmitting from Mt. Madonna near Gilroy.



> Shortly following KNTV's transition to NBC, KSBW moved its transmitter back to Fremont Peak.


This switch occured June 4, 2000 at 12:30 AM. This meant that they didn't want to infringe on the Bay Area stations as Salinas/Monterey is a very small market #122 and that they wanted to keep their stations local as they wanted to.

Take for instance (KCST pre-9/1988) KNSD down in San Diego, they along with most SD stations transmit from Mt. Palomar in the central-eastern part of San Diego County, Their station ID is KNSD NBC 7/39 because they are an O&O that broadcasts on Channel 39 OTA, but on cable systems in SD County they are on cable channel 7. Some areas in the LA market can recieve SD locals at night due to the fact that they are some 100 miles or so from each other, yet in some portions of LA, they can be viewed in a clear Line of Sight. That's why you see a whole lot of stations in SD with KSWB FOX 5/69, KUSI Channel 9/51, XUPN Channel 13/49 and XETV FOX 6, KFMB CBS 8 and KGTV ABC 10. At least despite some stations having their high UHF frequencies, their stations ID the cable channel position.

So in short, KSBW has the leverage of having the LOS on cable systems in South/Central Santa Clara County, but KNTV being from San Jose could only be viewed from as far south as Hollister/San Juan Bautista as it's considered part of the Monterey/Salinas Market.


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## runner861

JackBauer112 said:


> KSBW was and today is only recieved in the central and southern portions of Santa Clara County (San Jose, Los Gatos, Saratoga, Campbell, Morgan Hill and Gilroy). It used to pick up their Hearst sister station KCRA in the 1970s and 80s before it had the SyndEx rule preventing them from being carried on cable. KSBW from 1985-2000 was transmitting from Mt. Madonna near Gilroy.
> 
> This switch occured June 4, 2000 at 12:30 AM. This meant that they didn't want to infringe on the Bay Area stations as Salinas/Monterey is a very small market #122 and that they wanted to keep their stations local as they wanted to.
> 
> Take for instance (KCST pre-9/1988) KNSD down in San Diego, they along with most SD stations transmit from Mt. Palomar in the central-eastern part of San Diego County, Their station ID is KNSD NBC 7/39 because they are an O&O that broadcasts on Channel 39 OTA, but on cable systems in SD County they are on cable channel 7. Some areas in the LA market can recieve SD locals at night due to the fact that they are some 100 miles or so from each other, yet in some portions of LA, they can be viewed in a clear Line of Sight. That's why you see a whole lot of stations in SD with KSWB FOX 5/69, KUSI Channel 9/51, XUPN Channel 13/49 and XETV FOX 6, KFMB CBS 8 and KGTV ABC 10. At least despite some stations having their high UHF frequencies, their stations ID the cable channel position.
> 
> So in short, KSBW has the leverage of having the LOS on cable systems in South/Central Santa Clara County, but KNTV being from San Jose could only be viewed from as far south as Hollister/San Juan Bautista as it's considered part of the Monterey/Salinas Market.


Thanks for the information. I had wondered why the San Diego stations labeled themselves that way.

When I lived in Berkeley in the 1980s, we had cable and the cable included as distants the Sacramento market stations. They were located on higher numbers, so they weren't that easy to locate, but they were there. And they had no programming deleted. Apparently the San Francisco stations were not receiving network programming exclusivity at that time. The cable also included some, but not all, stations from San Jose. As I recall, KICU was included. KNTV was not included, and no Salinas stations were included, although we could receive KSBW OTA.


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