# vip622 and Denon AVR-2807 hdcp



## Sparhawk (Apr 30, 2006)

I just had my vip622 installed today, and I am looking at replacing my aging Sony A/V receiver. I am looking at the Denon AVR-2807, but I was concernd about the comment on CNET that this device will not work with an HDMI connection that doesn't support hdcp. After reading about all of the horror stories about the 622 and HDMI, can anyone tell me if this will be a probem or not? 

Chris


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## jnewtonsooner (Jan 20, 2006)

I've had no issues with HDMI.


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## Sparhawk (Apr 30, 2006)

jnewtonsooner said:


> I've had no issues with HDMI.


Thank you for the incredibly data filled reply! 

Do you have the Denon AVR-2807? If so, how is you system connected?


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## MNipper (Jan 20, 2004)

Here's my two-cents worth. My _guess_ is that it should be fine. I own a 5805, which was their initial foray into hdmi/dvi switching. I got one of the very first units. Much to my dismay (as this fact certainly wasn't advertised, and wasn't exactly well documented), the unit would not support any device that did not utilize HDCP (including input devices). Leaving out the longer story, I basically told that them this was about the stupidest thing that anyone could have done (I wrote some LONG emails to Denon on the subject, and ended up working thru their US Mkting Mgr. regarding this, and some other issues). Certainly, from the perspective of input devices (which I could easily connect directly to some other recording device, if I wanted to "steal" the content), it was mindless to "refuse to switch them in the receiver" just because they had no HDCP capability. So, again, long story short... they actually modified the firmware early in 2005, and (as best I can tell) gutted the restrictive HDCP requirements. Subsequent to that upgrade, I could feed the two non-HDCP devices into the receiver, and switch them just fine.

So... back to your question (and somewhat similar to jnewton's response about his 3807), I'm (again) guessing that it is this flavor of firmware that has made it into the newer hdmi-capable Denon receivers. I would ass-u-me that Denon realized that it was, in fact, rather silly to exclude the ability to switch the gazillions of devices that pre-existed, with no HDCP functionality.

Not a rock solid answer to your question, but at least you know that at least two of the "other" Denon models do handle non-HDCP (and some of the history as to how it likely got to be that way). And FWIW, I have a 622 as well, which I do switch thru my 5805.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Sparhawk said:


> I just had my vip622 installed today, and I am looking at replacing my aging Sony A/V receiver. I am looking at the Denon AVR-2807, but I was concernd about the comment on CNET that this device will not work with an HDMI connection that doesn't support hdcp. After reading about all of the horror stories about the 622 and HDMI, can anyone tell me if this will be a probem or not?


Chris,

If you plan on getting your x.1 Surround Sound from your 622 via the HDMI it is my understanding that it will not work on HDMI unless the HDMI version is 1.3... to be honest, I don't know if that version is out and if so I assume only the very latest equipment would be so equipped.

Just something you may want to look into.


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## Sparhawk (Apr 30, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Chris,
> 
> If you plan on getting your x.1 Surround Sound from your 622 via the HDMI it is my understanding that it will not work on HDMI unless the HDMI version is 1.3... to be honest, I don't know if that version is out and if so I assume only the very latest equipment would be so equipped.
> 
> Just something you may want to look into.


So you are saying that the DVD player will not pass the X.1 information onto my receiver unless the HDMI version is at least 1.3? If that is correct, what is it sending now, just stereo?


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## seattlemike (Feb 21, 2006)

Not sure what displays you guys are using but I'd want a display with 2 hdmi conections. My avr receiver, 2 hmdi in and 1 hdmi out. My SAT. RECEIVER I'd hook up direct to the display and run optical cable directly into the avr receiver. For dvd I'd run hdmi cable directly into the avr receiver and also use the optical out on the dvd to the avr optical in on the avr receiver; that should give all the sounds ranges. If you have only one hdmi on your display you'll have to hook it up the same as your dvd player and hopefuly shake hands and reconize each other. I have not heard of any device that has HDMI being non compliant (HDCP). Don't expect to see the 1.3 version this year, maybe by x-mass of next year; the best to look forward to for late in the year is maybe version 1.2a to hopefully solve the handshake problems so many are experiening, but seeing is beleiving; until then for dolby/DD use the opticl/coaxial cables and if possible on tv sources hook directly to your display when possible.


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## Marriner (Jan 23, 2006)

It sounds like HDMI, designed to simplify connections causes more problems than it solves. My old Sony ES does not have hdmi switching and my progressive dvd player has component out fed directly to my monitor. All audio is optical digital. no handshaking goin on anywhere. KISS.


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## thebrim (Jan 19, 2006)

seattlemike said:


> Not sure what displays you guys are using but I'd want a display with 2 hdmi conections. My avr receiver, 2 hmdi in and 1 hdmi out. My SAT. RECEIVER I'd hook up direct to the display and run optical cable directly into the avr receiver. For dvd I'd run hdmi cable directly into the avr receiver and also use the optical out on the dvd to the avr optical in on the avr receiver; that should give all the sounds ranges. If you have only one hdmi on your display you'll have to hook it up the same as your dvd player and hopefuly shake hands and reconize each other. I have not heard of any device that has HDMI being non compliant (HDCP). Don't expect to see the 1.3 version this year, maybe by x-mass of next year; the best to look forward to for late in the year is maybe version 1.2a to hopefully solve the handshake problems so many are experiening, but seeing is beleiving; until then for dolby/DD use the opticl/coaxial cables and if possible on tv sources hook directly to your display when possible.


If you hook the receiver directly to the display which more than likely only has one hdmi input then how would you be able to hook up the HDMI AV receiver and get a digital signal? I hooked my AV receiver (like yours 2 hdmi in, 1 out) directly to the displays HDMI input and (hopefully) plan on this weekend hooking up my new 622 to one of my two HDMI inputs. Reserving the second input for my HD DVD/Blu Ray player in the future. I can't seem to understand exactly how you would hook the SAT receiver directly to your display and then still be able to get a digital video signal to your AV receiver. Please explain.........


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## seattlemike (Feb 21, 2006)

thebrim, unless your display has 2 hdmi conections, you will have to run everything through the receiver which it sounds like you will do and hopefully their will be no handshake issues which plague so many users. Dish seems to handle it better than some of the others. Personally for a large display for a home theater setup if it has built in speakers they are useless to me, I'd turn them off and run everything through the receiver into my 5.1 system, the hdmi out I will only use to pass the video, again the optical/pcm cables should be input selectable on most receivers, kind of like using dvi hookup which doesn't pass audio. I would really reommend the avs science forum for a excellent source of information, especially the subforum "amps,receivers and processors" they can answer your question in depth and guide you through setup. Just goole avs science forum and it should show up, haven"t posted on this forum enough to give you the URL.

Mike


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## roland06 (May 8, 2006)

seattlemike said:


> thebrim, unless your display has 2 hdmi conections, you will have to run everything through the receiver which it sounds like you will do and hopefully their will be no handshake issues which plague so many users. Dish seems to handle it better than some of the others. Personally for a large display for a home theater setup if it has built in speakers they are useless to me, I'd turn them off and run everything through the receiver into my 5.1 system, the hdmi out I will only use to pass the video, again the optical/pcm cables should be input selectable on most receivers, kind of like using dvi hookup which doesn't pass audio. I would really reommend the avs science forum for a excellent source of information, especially the subforum "amps,receivers and processors" they can answer your question in depth and guide you through setup. Just goole avs science forum and it should show up, haven"t posted on this forum enough to give you the URL.
> 
> Mike


So the question goes back to who's running what version of HDMI. My understanding is that the STB has to support 1.1 or higher in order to support receiver relay, otherwise all you get is a HDCP protection violation. Google around and you'll find numerous A/V receivers have the same issue - the 622 doesn't seem to like HDMI switching. I further understand that the Dish stance is "if it works when connected directly to the tv then there's no problem" so when or whether a fix will come is anyones guess.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

I have a 211 and a AVR-3806.
I'll try the HDMI tonight when I get home.
I know it won't work with my Scientific Atlanta 3800 but I haven't tried the 211.

Even if there is an audio problem over the HDMI just run an optical cable and map it.
The 2807 is supposed to be better with HDMI than the 3806.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Sparhawk said:


> So you are saying that the DVD player will not pass the X.1 information onto my receiver unless the HDMI version is at least 1.3? If that is correct, what is it sending now, just stereo?


Yes, that is my understanding. Stereo is supported by earlier HDMI protocols and is what is required by stereo TV's. (I have an HDMI to DVI with a DVI to HDMI adapter connected from my wife's 622 to the HDMI input on her TV - the stereo sound on the TV works just fine as both stero and X.1 sound *is available* with the DVI, just no protocol to make use of it. The sond becomes available when "converted" back to HDMI.


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## jgriffin (Mar 2, 2006)

I have my 622 connected to a Denon 4306 via HDMI for video, an Oppo dvd player via HDMI to the 4306, and a single HDMI cable out of the 4306 to my Panasonic AE900 projector.

No problems whatsoever switching either HDMI device through the 4306.

Audio is through standard optical/coax digital into the 4306.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

This whole thread in regards to having to worry about the compatablity issues of the HDCP is bogus! Godd*am!!!! I hate the hollywood corporate nazis!!!! This is only making life hard for the honest people. The crooks are still gonna pirate the damn movies (rant off). BTW I checked with a tech thread from a dennon specific site and it looks like you will be fine to hook that baby up no sweat. Hope this helps.


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## Sparhawk (Apr 30, 2006)

ocnier said:


> BTW I checked with a tech thread from a dennon specific site and it looks like you will be fine to hook that baby up no sweat. Hope this helps.


Can you provide a link to that thread? I would like to read more about his. Thank!


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## alfbinet (May 19, 2002)

ocnier said:


> This whole thread in regards to having to worry about the compatablity issues of the HDCP is bogus! Godd*am!!!! I hate the hollywood corporate nazis!!!! This is only making life hard for the honest people. The crooks are still gonna pirate the damn movies (rant off). BTW I checked with a tech thread from a dennon specific site and it looks like you will be fine to hook that baby up no sweat. Hope this helps.


I have a Vip221 hooked up to a Denon 3806 via HDMI In to the 3806. I am running HDMI monitor out to my Mits TV. Optical cable out from 211 to the 3806. I have no problems swithching video sources through my Denon 3806. Your receiver is newer. I don't think you will have any problems.


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## chrisjs (Feb 8, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Chris,
> 
> If you plan on getting your x.1 Surround Sound from your 622 via the HDMI it is my understanding that it will not work on HDMI unless the HDMI version is 1.3... to be honest, I don't know if that version is out and if so I assume only the very latest equipment would be so equipped.
> 
> Just something you may want to look into.


This is not a HDMI issue it is a Dish implementation issue not supporting the standard. Notice it doesn't say HDMI is says HDTV. HDMI ver 1.1 is capable of 5.1 Audio. Ver 1.3 may have more enhanced audio but if you have a true HDMI device it should support full audio. See note from 1.1 HDMI FAQ:

"Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats? Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI."

We need to keep on E* to fix this

Hope this helps.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

chrisjs said:


> This is not a HDMI issue it is a Dish implementation issue not supporting the standard. Notice it doesn't say HDMI is says HDTV. HDMI ver 1.1 is capable of 5.1 Audio. Ver 1.3 may have more enhanced audio but if you have a true HDMI device it should support full audio. See note from 1.1 HDMI FAQ:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


The AVS Forums have literally dozens of threads on this very subject and it *is* the HDMI issue as described.

Dish bashing is not what is required. 

Here's some interesting reading that may help you.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback45.html

EDIT: The following is from an AVS Thread on the Denon AVR-2807's inability to pass DD sound with an HDMI source. (The very reciever that the OP, Sparhawk, is talking to.) The poster is seeing the 2 Ch Stereo only due to the HDMI protocol not supporting utilizing the DD sound. When he goes to an Optical Inout to the DEnon it "sees" the DD.

"Well to try and eliminate the Denon as the problem I picked up a Toshiba upconverting DVD player today that has HDMI out for both audio and video.

After hooking up and setting the receiver, low and behold I had both audio and video over HDMI to the Denon and out to the screen and speakers....

This would seem to eliminate the Denon as the problem for not receiving audio via the HDMI cable from the HD-Tivo and put the ball squarely in Tivo/Hughes court.

One interesting fact however... when I was playing the DVD through the HDMI port from the Toshiba, my Denon was only showing a "DVD Stereo" on the front panel... when I put this same DVD in my Oppo and output sound via the digital coax then the front panel says "Dolby Digital." "


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## chrisjs (Feb 8, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> The AVS Forums have literally dozens of threads on this very subject and it *is* the HDMI issue as described.
> 
> Dish bashing is not what is required.
> 
> ...


I think you missed my point that true HDMI compliance would resolve these issues and ver 1.3 will not make it better if the devices don't even support 1.1. Sorry about the dish comment but there have been alot of 622 customers having problems using the "HDTV" port including myself, and then blaming HDMI as the culprit. And the only way they and other manufactures of these devices will make this one connection work is if we demand that they make them true HDMI compliant instead of confusing customers about weather they need HDMI ver x to solve these problems. I guess maybe I am putting too much hope in the one cable solution.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

chrisjs said:


> I think you missed my point that true HDMI compliance would resolve these issues and ver 1.3 will not make it better if the devices don't even support 1.1. ...


That's pure conjecture on your part. The problem under discussion here with the Denon has nothing to do with Dish.

You've got to deal with it.


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## Sparhawk (Apr 30, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> EDIT: The following is from an AVS Thread on the Denon AVR-2807's inability to pass DD sound with an HDMI source. (The very reciever that the OP, Sparhawk, is talking to.) The poster is seeing the 2 Ch Stereo only due to the HDMI protocol not supporting utilizing the DD sound. When he goes to an Optical Inout to the DEnon it "sees" the DD.
> 
> "Well to try and eliminate the Denon as the problem I picked up a Toshiba upconverting DVD player today that has HDMI out for both audio and video.
> 
> ...


Salti,

Can you post the link to the whole article, please? Thanks!


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