# HR54/C61 vs. HS17 decisions



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

After monitoring the original HS17 thread over time recently, it would appear that AT&T is pouring its current resources into the HS17 using multiple manufacturers now. I've been holding out for a different 4K setup for awhile, since I bought my 4K compatible TV 1.5 years ago (M60-C3), and the HS17 obviously is a headless unit. Our household is not interested in an all client based/RVU HS17 setup. 

I have an owned HR54 on the way, so for folks like me, should we just cash in now on the 4K package with the C61K or wait? I know no one can "officially" answer if there is a future (better) 4K alternative to the HR54/C61 to get 4K, whether in the works or on the drawing board. I'm going out on a limb and guessing there will not be a new tuner based DVR with 4K output capability which I would prefer. 

I now see backlit RF66RBX remotes are no longer available online, and I guess it's just a matter of time before the dual tuner HR2x series will not be available for purchase either. AT&T is dropping hardware left and right, just like my GenieGo2 awhile ago.

One last question, I have a free upgrade on my protection plan available. Does that help me at all going with the 4K install, or should I not waste it since I already have the owned HR54 on the way to activate? Just looking at a total cost these days for a 4K transition. Thanks.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

If you have or are planning to get a 4K Ultra HDTV then go with the free upgrade. There is a known issue with the C61K-700 (audio drop out) but it's not affecting everyone who has one. The DIRECTV RC71B remote is backlit and available at Solid Signal.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

With the HR54 you are allow to mix and match your genie with other DIRECTV receivers. With the 17 DIRECTV is following (kinda) Dish path and only allowing clients so you will have to give all other receivers when upgrading to the new 17. For this reason alone I am staying where I am, although I have to admit I am in a very different boat then most anyone in DIRECTV. 


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Even if Directv is not allowing the HS17 work with older equipment that's not a guarantee that will remain a requirement when they release it. Could be they're trying to simplify testing, though perhaps they plan to enforce this requirement to reduce support costs.

Dish has a technical reason why the Hopper 3 can't be used with older equipment - none of that older equipment can talk to the hybrid LNB (which is channel stacking, i.e. SWM) that the Hopper 3 requires. As far as anyone is aware, there is no technical reason why the HS17 cannot work with an HR24 or H25. If Directv chooses to limit it that way, it will be a business decision.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

slice1900 said:


> the hybrid LNB (which is *channel stacking*, i.e. SWM)


any chance to read tech info about it what did convince you made such conclusion ?

I think you misnamed it - it would be tpn stacking


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

P Smith said:


> any chance to read tech info about it what did convince you made such conclusion ?
> 
> I think you misnamed it - it would be tpn stacking


No, he was right. Dish's hybrid LNB is way more than bandstacking. It is essentially the same thing as DirecTV's SWM


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

JosephB said:


> No, he was right. Dish's hybrid LNB is way more than bandstacking. It is essentially the same thing as DirecTV's SWM


I would take your words, but anyway I'd like to read tech info.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

codespy said:


> After monitoring the original HS17 thread over time recently, it would appear that AT&T is pouring its current resources into the HS17 using multiple manufacturers now. I've been holding out for a different 4K setup for awhile, since I bought my 4K compatible TV 1.5 years ago (M60-C3), and the HS17 obviously is a headless unit. Our household is not interested in an all client based/RVU HS17 setup.
> 
> I have an owned HR54 on the way, so for folks like me, should we just cash in now on the 4K package with the C61K or wait? I know no one can "officially" answer if there is a future (better) 4K alternative to the HR54/C61 to get 4K, whether in the works or on the drawing board. I'm going out on a limb and guessing there will not be a new tuner based DVR with 4K output capability which I would prefer.
> 
> ...


I find it funny you blame att for dropping hardware. DIRECTV decided to change the geniengo path ages ago. In the long run it should be better (obviously it's not yet)

But the receivers and remotes, those have always had a shelf life. Generally about five years. This is for accounting purposes and once all the new ones have been used for that long they start to wind them down. It's been years since you could get a HR20 easily... about five. Which is about 10 years after it was introduced. HR24 have a few more years left but it will go away. However with so many out there they may have stock that will last for many more years. Hard to say. But old equipment not being around is not att it's how it works.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

I guess a better example would have been the AM2x series, something our household uses nearly every day. True the GenieGo had it's days numbered on DirecTV's watch, and expired under AT&T's, but I was always able to access all recordings on every HDDVR I had, not these days where it's limited to the Genie, with a whole lot of on demand versions of the recordings. I admit I'm a little jumpy when it comes to AT&T, and I have voiced some flack in other threads on features, hardware and customer service (or lack thereof). My wife hates the RC7x remotes, and I'm not a big fan of them for our uses, hence she wanted more RC66RBX versions because she is used to them. It's a stupid little thing but it makes her happy.

Back to topic, I think I will go with the 4K upgrade train as recommended, using the owned HR54 on it's way. That is based on what the HS17 is offering right now with the choice of only clients and not other HDDVR's. Thanks for all of the suggestions.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I find it funny you blame att for dropping hardware. DIRECTV decided to change the geniengo path ages ago. In the long run it should be better (obviously it's not yet)
> 
> But the receivers and remotes, those have always had a shelf life. Generally about five years. This is for accounting purposes and once all the new ones have been used for that long they start to wind them down. It's been years since you could get a HR20 easily... about five. Which is about 10 years after it was introduced. HR24 have a few more years left but it will go away. However with so many out there they may have stock that will last for many more years. Hard to say. But old equipment not being around is not att it's how it works.


Anyone know when the last HR24 was manufactured? Last year some people were reporting one model of HR24 was now considered "non-recoverable" by Directv. Maybe because they stopped making them more than five years ago at that point so Directv knew they were all older than that. Once they started making Genies by the boatload, they probably never needed to make another HR24 since they'd have more coming back from customers leaving than they'd have going out for new customers signing up - most of whom would go with Genie.

Given that the HR34 came out about five years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if 2012 was the last year of manufacture for the HR24, and they'll all be non-recoverable by the end of the year. The only non-Genie / client that wouldn't be non-recoverable then would presumably be the H25. Maybe that's why the HS17 won't work other equipment (if that's how it is when released) There's extra code and testing involved in making that work, but if they will consider all that gear non-recoverable by the time it is released anyway, then why bother with it? Sure, the dbstalk type power user will be unhappy, but 99% of Directv customers could care less. And maybe there'd be a way around it, either using a separate dish, or using something like a SWM30 switch (whenever that arrives) and putting the HS17 on one leg and your old gear on the other.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

I believe it's the HR24-100 that's non-recoverable right now. Half of the them were manufactured with fans that had 2 beveled corners and fail way quicker than the standard square fans.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

codespy said:


> I guess a better example would have been the AM2x series, something our household uses nearly every day. True the GenieGo had it's days numbered on DirecTV's watch, and expired under AT&T's, but I was always able to access all recordings on every HDDVR I had, not these days where it's limited to the Genie, with a whole lot of on demand versions of the recordings. I admit I'm a little jumpy when it comes to AT&T, and I have voiced some flack in other threads on features, hardware and customer service (or lack thereof). My wife hates the RC7x remotes, and I'm not a big fan of them for our uses, hence she wanted more RC66RBX versions because she is used to them. It's a stupid little thing but it makes her happy.
> 
> Back to topic, I think I will go with the 4K upgrade train as recommended, using the owned HR54 on it's way. That is based on what the HS17 is offering right now with the choice of only clients and not other HDDVR's. Thanks for all of the suggestions.


Like you I use AM21's and RC6x remotes. I know they work with the HR54 so seems like a good decision if you need OTA and want to keep the wife happy.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

codespy said:


> I guess a better example would have been the AM2x series, something our household uses nearly every day. True the GenieGo had it's days numbered on DirecTV's watch, and expired under AT&T's, but I was always able to access all recordings on every HDDVR I had, not these days where it's limited to the Genie, with a whole lot of on demand versions of the recordings. I admit I'm a little jumpy when it comes to AT&T, and I have voiced some flack in other threads on features, hardware and customer service (or lack thereof). *My wife hates the RC7x remotes, and I'm not a big fan of them for our uses*, hence she wanted more RC66RBX versions because she is used to them. It's a stupid little thing but it makes her happy.
> 
> Back to topic, I think I will go with the 4K upgrade train as recommended, using the owned HR54 on it's way. That is based on what the HS17 is offering right now with the choice of only clients and not other HDDVR's. Thanks for all of the suggestions.


I agree, I tried to like them and failed. To go one step farther, I'm sorry I bought a Genie. I didn't need more storage, I didn't need more tuners, I just had to try one and I'm very disappointed with the software of the HR44-700. I don't even use it to view content, I keep a 24-100 under it so that I can utilize the fine software of the 24s to view content. I know D* won't fix the software.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I standardize on one remote for all stations in my house. And I like the "new" remote, insist on RF. If you use nothing but the RC7XX series, you'll soon not even need a light. All by touch and feel. 

Get those wives in line!!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

nice jump off-topic ..:thumbsdown:
when you read last time what thread you're posting ?! oliceofficer:
:backtotop:


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I write posts that are intelligible and even sometimes intelligent! I try to give useful advice such as above. 

The way to get a thread on topic is to post something on topic. I've stated this years ago, and Mr. Long seems to agree. 

Moreover, the above post is on topic for those concerned about remotes that come with their future equipment orders. Sheesh.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> I standardize on one remote for all stations in my house. And I like the "new" remote, insist on RF. If you use nothing but the RC7XX series, you'll soon not even need a light. All by touch and feel.
> 
> Get those wives in line!!


We use RF option on all remotes throughout the house, since we have multiple TV's off single HD-DVR's in some rooms. Only on the HR44 do we use IR due to the limitations of the RC66RBX remote. I was thinking of getting my wife in line like you said, but I really didn't want to witness another eyebrow rising up in front of me, so I chickened out.........

Back to my setup, and replacing my HR44 for the HR54 and getting a C61K, I just want to be sure that DirecTV will not flag my account for setup issues. There should be enough tuners available as I am still keeping the 12- HR2x DVR's going, and to my knowledge the HR54 still only counts for 5 tuners and not 7 as discussed in previous years. Still running the parallel SWiM-16 setup on a SL5LNB, but I have my WB68 multiswitch in place due to the recent problems with my PerfectVision splitters. I know there will be a bridge involved, and using my eligible PP plan upgrade, what will DirecTV need to replace and are there any other hidden costs for the install?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

The HR54 will use 5 tuners on legacy SWM LNBs but will use 7 when used in a reverse band LNB. 


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Directv will let you get a C61K (implying 4K service) when you're on a legacy LNB and SWM16s. Even though 4K broadcasts aren't using reverse band today, Directv is requiring the use of a reverse band LNB for 4K installs, so I think you'll have to wait until the legacy reverse band LNB and Digital SWM 30 switch are out - and since 12 HR2x and 1 HR54 will total 31 tuners when the HR54 grabs 7, you'll need two SWM 30s and splitters!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> peds48 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Directv will let you get a C61K (implying 4K service) when you're on a legacy LNB and SWM16s. Even though 4K broadcasts aren't using reverse band today, Directv is requiring the use of a reverse band LNB for 4K installs, so I think you'll have to wait until the legacy reverse band LNB and Digital SWM 30 switch are out - and since 12 HR2x and 1 HR54 will total 31 tuners when the HR54 grabs 7, you'll need two SWM 30s and splitters!


No, your impression in incorrect. If you have more than 13 tuners you can definitely get a C61K or 4K service. The work order will be built automatically with a SWM16. In this case you will be dealt with appropriately when the time comes.

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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Okay good info. And in regards to an older thread, I still have my WB68 IPO the Perfect Vision splitters for my parallel SWM16 setup. Did you ever find out if the Perfect Vision's are still being used on those setups or are they using something different now? Just curious if there is a compatibility issue with 4K and the WB68's? Perhaps when the truck roll comes, they will replace the WB68 with something different......

I'm still likely going this route rather than the future HS17.....:thumbsup:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

codespy said:


> Okay good info. And in regards to an older thread, I still have my WB68 IPO the Perfect Vision splitters for my parallel SWM16 setup. Did you ever find out if the Perfect Vision's are still being used on those setups or are they using something different now? Just curious if there is a compatibility issue with 4K and the WB68's? Perhaps when the truck roll comes, they will replace the WB68 with something different......
> 
> I'm still likely going this route rather than the future HS17.....:thumbsup:


None of that stuff is reverse band compatible, including the 6x8 and SWM16. DIRECTV currently has no 4K solution for set ups beyond 13 tuners. But there is nothing to worry about, when the needs comes DIRECTV will have a solution in place.

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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

peds48 said:


> No, your impression in incorrect. If you have more than 13 tuners you can definitely get a C61K or 4K service. The work order will be built automatically with a SWM16. In this case you will be dealt with appropriately when the time comes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So if you have SWM 16 so if I wanted to upgrade to the 4k equipment would all I need is just the HR-54/C61k and they wouldn't have to upgrade the dish? I guess you would still need a truck roll for those? Thanks.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

peds48 said:


> No, your impression in incorrect. If you have more than 13 tuners you can definitely get a C61K or 4K service. The work order will be built automatically with a SWM16. In this case you will be dealt with appropriately when the time comes..........





peds48 said:


> None of that stuff is reverse band compatible, including the 6x8 and SWM16. DIRECTV currently has no 4K solution for set ups beyond 13 tuners. But there is nothing to worry about, when the needs comes DIRECTV will have a solution in place......


I guess I originally misinterpreted your post thinking it could still happen on my setup but apparently not based on your next post. I just called one of my previous installers with DirecSAT, who installed my parallel SWM16 setup about 5 years ago (he gave me his number just in case of issues). He confirmed I cannot get a 4K setup with my configuration, unless DirecTV installs a seperate dish antenna on my house with the reverse band equipment.

With that being said, technically those receivers would be on a different cloud, so my other IRD's wouldn't see recordings via WHDVR correct? And, although I'd be cashing in my PP free upgrade, is it likely that DirecTV would still hit me for additional charges because of the second dish antenna install? Thanks.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

codespy said:


> I guess I originally misinterpreted your post thinking it could still happen on my setup but apparently not based on your next post. I just called one of my previous installers with DirecSAT, who installed my parallel SWM16 setup about 5 years ago (he gave me his number just in case of issues). He confirmed I cannot get a 4K setup with my configuration, unless DirecTV installs a seperate dish antenna on my house with the reverse band equipment.
> 
> With that being said, technically those receivers would be on a different cloud, so my other IRD's wouldn't see recordings via WHDVR correct? And, although I'd be cashing in my PP free upgrade, is it likely that DirecTV would still hit me for additional charges because of the second dish antenna install? Thanks.


Your installer is mistaken. You can get 4K in your current set up. I don't make stuff up as I go along.










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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Your installer is mistaken. You can get 4K in your current set up. I don't make stuff up as I go along.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry for not understanding your earlier posts, not trying to discredit you at all. If anyone would know it would be you peds- I interpreted it as a future solution rather than one available now. I will inform my tech as well based on the third informational note at the bottom of the bulletin. I can proceed with the upgrade now, thanks.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

You don't need RB lnb today. You will someday. As peds said when that day gets here hopefully there will be a solution. 

If you have more than 13 tuners today and you want RB lnb today you'd need two dishes. 

You could then combine the two clouds from each dish in one of three ways... 

The only thing that is truly ridiculously difficult right now is getting foreign stuff off 97 and having a RB lnb. That's super tricky right now. There is a technical way to have it all but there'd be separation in which dvrs could record which channels and you'd need three dishes.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> You don't need RB lnb today. You will someday. As peds said when that day gets here hopefully there will be a solution.
> 
> If you have more than 13 tuners today and you want RB lnb today you'd need two dishes.
> 
> ...


Again, all of this is moot. When DIRECTV starts using the reverse band there will be some kind of switch that supports this new technology. Worrying about now is just a waste of time.

To the TS, order your 4K as usual don't not let them install a second dish, you don't need one. When time comes you can contact DIRECTV and they will install whatever is necessary to get you the 4K.

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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Again, all of this is moot. When DIRECTV starts using the reverse band there will be some kind of switch that supports this new technology. Worrying about now is just a waste of time.
> 
> To the TS, order your 4K as usual don't not let them install a second dish, you don't need one. When time comes you can contact DIRECTV and they will install whatever is necessary to get you the 4K.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won't surprise me one bit if they don't have a solution for beyond 13 tuners out before BSS is in use. With that said I'd not worry about it today either and I'd wait and see what happens as well. I'm just noting what physically can and can't be done today.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> It won't surprise me one bit if they don't have a solution for beyond 13 tuners out before BSS is in use. With that said I'd not worry about it today either and I'd wait and see what happens as well. I'm just noting what physically can and can't be done today.


There will be a solution. You can take that to the bank. DIRECTV can't just leave those with more than 13 hang out to dry. Wether that solution is a switch or convert them them to a new system is what we have to wait and see.

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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

All good information. My owned HR54 got delivered today, so I will proceed with the upgrade. I can't wait to spend another hour and a half or so with a CSR from the Philippines doing the upgrade. Two other calls this week on different simple topics turned out this way.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

I have a legacy lnb and swim16 and I installed my HR54 and two c61k's myself. Just have to make sure you don't overload one side of the swim16.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> It won't surprise me one bit if they don't have a solution for beyond 13 tuners out before BSS is in use. With that said I'd not worry about it today either and I'd wait and see what happens as well. I'm just noting what physically can and can't be done today.


Given that Directv has no reason to hurry up and start broadcasting using reverse band, I don't know why you think that. The only thing that will force it is the addition of enough 4K channels that they don't have enough Ka bandwidth for. We're not exactly seeing a stampede of 4K channel announcements  Obviously the networks will share with providers like Directv their 4K plans at least a year in advance, so they'll know what's coming down the pike well in advance and make appropriate plans.

There was a Digital SWM 30 switch (or at least a mockup of one) shown at the 2015 Directv Revolution conference, over a year and a half ago. You would have to think that's ready to go, it is just waiting on the legacy reverse band LNB. That will surely cost more to make than a current legacy LNB, so maybe they aren't in any rush until they know they'll need it. I am a bit surprised they wouldn't bring out the SWM30 if its ready, which you'd think it would be if they already had working samples back in 2015. Given that digital LNBs crossed over cost-wise with analog ones over a year ago (per Maxlinear) then the SWM30 should cost less to make than the SWM16, unless it has some added bells and whistles we don't know about. Of course it will have much lower production volumes, so the actual cost we see (i.e. on eBay etc.) will probably be higher, since providing 2x the ports means you need half as many, and with 21 tuner LNBs available the use of switches in the residential market will all but disappear.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Well the new revers lnb is up to 21 tuners... But it doesn't work with older equipment. So I question if they will make it a priority to produce something that works for older equipment if they are focusing revers band only on 4k. There are rumors about something to deal with rb and 97 at the end of the year maybe, and I suspect we may have 4k on RB before that. I think that solution may be the same solution for this issue. Hence why I am not sure we will see the fix before RB gets used.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> Well the new revers lnb is up to 21 tuners... But it doesn't work with older equipment. So I question if they will make it a priority to produce something that works for older equipment if they are focusing revers band only on 4k. There are rumors about something to deal with rb and 97 at the end of the year maybe, and I suspect we may have 4k on RB before that. I think that solution may be the same solution for this issue. Hence why I am not sure we will see the fix before RB gets used.


So, what is _your_ decision on HR54/C61k or HS17 ?!


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I wonder if going forward they will only do LNB's that only work with the latest equipment? Are they really pushing the Server/Client model more and more and want to phase out the older equipment?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder if going forward they will only do LNB's that only work with the latest equipment? Are they really pushing the Server/Client model more and more and want to phase out the older equipment?


That would not surprise me at all.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Anything other would also be a surprise.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

carl6 said:


> That would not surprise me at all.


I have a feeling they may head that way for residential but may continue to push h25s to commercial accounts in definitely. Time will tell.

I recall in a presentation years ago they said they where headed to client setups. It's not like they didn't suggest it in the past.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I think it is WAY premature to be talking about Directv phasing out old equipment. They haven't even phased out SD gear, and won't until 2019! The only reason they are is because they're dropping MPEG2 so they'll become doorstops. Same thing as a few years ago when they shut down all those ancient 95-00 era MPG receivers. They aren't going to make anyone get rid of their H2x/HR2x for many many years. They gave plenty of notice for the MPG thing, and I'm sure will give plenty of notice before they shut off MPEG2 and all those SD only receivers become useless.

I doubt there will be any LNBs incompatible with the H2x/HR2x (H20 excepted, it can't use any of the newer 13 or 21 tuner LNBs) The only new LNB on the horizon is the legacy reverse band. They probably won't support any receivers/DVR directly connected to it in legacy mode, but I guarantee the H2x/HR2x will work with it via SWM switches, for reasons that should be quite obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than two seconds.

Now maybe Directv won't let you have anything but clients if you get an HS17 - that remains to be seen. If they do that'll be a business decision, not a technical limitation.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Now maybe Directv won't let you have anything but clients if you get an HS17 - that remains to be seen. If they do that'll be a business decision, not a technical limitation.


If DIRECTV were to go in this direction, then they would need to keep the existing Genie line alive for those that need support for more than 8 rooms supported by the HS-17

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> If DIRECTV were to go in this direction, then they would need to keep the existing Genie line alive for those that need support for more than 8 rooms supported by the HS-17


Or support more than one HS17 on an account...


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Or support more than one HS17 on an account...


You know there is very little chance of that happening.

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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder if going forward they will only do LNB's that only work with the latest equipment? Are they really pushing the Server/Client model more and more and want to phase out the older equipment?


I've been told they want to phase out/limit equipment with internal hard drives, power supplies, and in general hardware that requires a fan to keep the hardware from overheating. These are 3 items that usually contain the most failures (which costs DirecTV a lot of money to maintain every year for every IRD for every customer that has a problem), hence the advent of a single server and clients.

I will hold on to my HR2x series IRD's as long as possible before making any changes. I don't care if the DirecTV police show up at my door, I will take and maintain a HD-DVR (owned of course) vs. a Client any day!


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

codespy said:


> I've been told they want to phase out/limit equipment with internal hard drives, power supplies, and in general hardware that requires a fan to keep the hardware from overheating. These are 3 items that usually contain the most failures (which costs DirecTV a lot of money to maintain every year for every IRD for every customer that has a problem), hence the advent of a single server and clients.
> 
> I will hold on to my HR2x series IRD's as long as possible before making any changes. I don't care if the DirecTV police show up at my door, I will take and maintain a HD-DVR (owned of course) vs. a Client any day!


Do you know when that phase out will happen?

I like having boxes small and sleek looking, however haven't some people in here say that the Genie Mini's because they are small overheat?


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

No announcement made by AT&T that I am aware of. I was told of this back in the pre-AT&T days........


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> I think it is WAY premature to be talking about Directv phasing out old equipment. They haven't even phased out SD gear, and won't until 2019! The only reason they are is because they're dropping MPEG2 so they'll become doorstops. Same thing as a few years ago when they shut down all those ancient 95-00 era MPG receivers. They aren't going to make anyone get rid of their H2x/HR2x for many many years. They gave plenty of notice for the MPG thing, and I'm sure will give plenty of notice before they shut off MPEG2 and all those SD only receivers become useless.
> 
> I doubt there will be any LNBs incompatible with the H2x/HR2x (H20 excepted, it can't use any of the newer 13 or 21 tuner LNBs) The only new LNB on the horizon is the legacy reverse band. They probably won't support any receivers/DVR directly connected to it in legacy mode, but I guarantee the H2x/HR2x will work with it via SWM switches, for reasons that should be quite obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than two seconds.
> 
> Now maybe Directv won't let you have anything but clients if you get an HS17 - that remains to be seen. If they do that'll be a business decision, not a technical limitation.


I think you went a little to extreme there. I am talking about what they can offer new people. Not that they would go and replace all the exsist I g equipment. That would be dumb other than mpeg2 capable stuff. No I just wonder about what products they will have available in the future.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I think you went a little to extreme there. I am talking about what they can offer new people. Not that they would go and replace all the exsist I g equipment. That would be dumb other than mpeg2 capable stuff. No I just wonder about what products they will have available in the future.


Oh I agree completely they won't make any new receivers or small DVRs, client/server is clearly their future direction.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> You know there is very little chance of that happening.


Why do you say that? It is just a matter of software to handle it without causing any problems. What would Directv's strategy be for "mansion" systems with dozens of TVs if they don't? Give them increasingly obsolete H2x/HR2x hardware that isn't even manufactured anymore? Make them get multiple accounts for a single home?

When the Genie came out they had a choice, because they had all that old hardware floating around. But now it is getting old and all or almost all the HR2x will be written off by the time the HS17 is released - I doubt there are many HR24s with a manufacturing date after 2012...


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

How long will it be before DTV starts sending out Genie Mini's to replace the H/HR series boxes if one of those breaks?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Why do you say that? .


It has been a business decision for the past 5 years. What makes you think they are going to change now?

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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

CraigerM said:


> How long will it be before DTV starts sending out Genie Mini's to replace the H/HR series boxes if one of those breaks?


That would only work if there were a Genie on the account someplace. Otherwise, they would have to replace the failed Hx2x with a Genie first, then use clients. I would not be surprised to see this happen.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

carl6 said:


> That would only work if there were a Genie on the account someplace. Otherwise, they would have to replace the failed Hx2x with a Genie first, then use clients. I would not be surprised to see this happen.


Replacing a failed DVR with anything else but a DVR is considered an upgrade that comes with a commitment and most likely a one time fee.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> It has been a business decision for the past 5 years. What makes you think they are going to change now?


If they want to phase out standalone receivers/DVRs, as seems the case since no new ones have come out for years, then they either have to allow more than one server or stop supporting the type of large installs they've always supported in the past.

The business decisions "phase out non client/server gear" and "only allow one server" are in conflict, and can't both happen going forward.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> If they want to phase out standalone receivers/DVRs, as seems the case since no new ones have come out for years, then they either have to allow more than one server or stop supporting the type of large installs they've always supported in the past.
> 
> The business decisions "phase out non client/server gear" and "only allow one server" are in conflict, and can't both happen going forward.


You see to keep missing the point.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

You asked why I thought they would change now when it has been the policy for five years, and I answered. As far as I can tell "because that's how it has always been" is your only reason.

I provided a reason why things might change from how they've always been. Maybe you're right and they won't, but if so something has to give if they plan to phase out H2x/HR2x since those are getting long in the tooth. Otherwise what do people with 10 TVs do if an HS17 only supports 7 or 8?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> . Otherwise what do people with 10 TVs do if an HS17 only supports 7 or 8?


Exactly back to a full circle. This is what I said that DIRECTV just keep the old Genie platform alive so that folks can mix and match.

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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The conversation is running in circles, so give it a chance to settle. We don't need to challenge each other, give it a break.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Back to my HR54/C61K Decision- Here it what I found out today......

After all the trouble verifying beforehand the owned status of the HR54 from a DirecTV employee, then purchasing and receiving it, I activated it on February 14th and the CSR confirmed owned status from employee and owned status on my account. She said she would put it in the notes on my account. I also have a printed transcript from DirecTV Chat confirming owned status.

Tonight, I just checked my DirecTV online account to cash in on my free 4K upgrade, and the system reset my protection plan free upgrade from December 9, 2016 to September 14, 2018. I then called in to protection plan department to question it. They said my HR54 shows up as leased and my programming commitment got extended 2 more years. They transferred me to access card department.

After 25 minutes, ACD could not do anything to change the lease status to owned, even though she verified it was owned before I activated it and I did not get sent to 3rd party verification after activating it explaining a two year additional commitment. She transferred me to customer retention department and said they could take care of it. She indicated they could void the commitment since I technically did not do an upgrade and purchased owned equipment and did not get sent to 3rd party verification.

After 32 minutes, Retention CSR (I verified his department he worked in) could not change the status from leased to owned. He said it's the first time he has encountered this problem, and then spent another 23 minutes trying to work with his supervisor and then tech support on the issue. He also could not see the notes from my DirecTV Chat proving that it was owned equipment. Tech support rep told him to transfer me back to protection plan department and they would take care of leased/owned status. I grew tired and sad. I also started receiving the stink eye from my wife as she had to put the kids to bed on her own.....yet again this week due to a DirecTV call.

CSR back in PPD said his system is updating and cannot gain any access to account. Retention CSR, who stayed on the line luckily while this transpired, said his shift ends in 20 minutes and would try to resolve it and give me a call tomorrow at 6PM CST. But as a gift to me, would waive the $99 cost on a C61K upgrade. Not much of a gift to me since I already could have had it free before I activated the owned HR54.

Total call time for no progress and no results: 1hr 33minutes.

I know this post could possibly fit in some other better titled threads, but it's part of my HR54/C61 vs. HS17 decision making process.......


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

peds48 said:


> None of that stuff is reverse band compatible, including the 6x8 and SWM16. DIRECTV currently has no 4K solution for set ups beyond 13 tuners. But there is nothing to worry about, when the needs comes DIRECTV will have a solution in place.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a truck roll this week with a DirectSAT installer who's been at my house here and there over the last ten years, activating another HD-DVR (for my detached garage). When I questioned support for 30+ tuners and Reverse Band in the future, he mentioned he recently got training on setups like mine. Here was his description-

There is a newer 'Module', that requires 5 coax lines from the LNB (He could not remember specifics on the LNB). He pointed out my current 4 lines from the 5LNB to my distribution center would need to be upgraded.

I'm not confident he had the best information in the world regarding this. I asked some questions, and he was fairly quiet for the most part. But he did say a solution for an account like mine will be handled. He said the most HD-DVR's on a residential account that he has been a part of regarding installations was 19. Thank God I'm not even close to that total!


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The newer 'module' he's talking about was the legacy reverse band LNB, which takes 6 coax lines not 5. You'd then get one or more DSWM30s, which supports 15 tuners on each of its two outputs (with no DECA bridging like the SWM16 has)

So basically replace your LNB, and replace your SWM16s if you want to get reverse band capability. Looks like you'd need two DSWM30s if all that stuff is at one location, so you'd need 6 satellite splitters between them. The HR10s are boat anchors before the end of the year.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Got it, thanks. The HR10’s are deactivated. We just have older programs on them that we still watch, and they work fine as OTA tuners, and with guide data, for now.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

codespy said:


> Got it, thanks. The HR10's are deactivated. We just have older programs on them that we still watch, and they work fine as OTA tuners, and with guide data, for now.


Directv will have to keep at least two Ku transponders as DSS due to limitations in some H2x/HR2x hardware, so if your HR10s currently "work" for your purposes even though they are deactivated they might continue working even after Directv drops MPEG2 SD completely. Or not, there's no way to know until it happens.

If you wanted to keep using them you'd need to keep a SWM16 around for the legacy outputs. It would connect to four of the reverse band LNB's outputs, but not the two "new" outputs designated for reverse band that it can't use.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Okay good info. I have two dishes mounted on my roof right next to each other. One is my older Slimline with 5lnb which is runnng everything currently, and the newer RB dish setup with AT&T logo got installed right next to it installed two years ago. It’s not in use right now and I have the PI unplugged, but it’s there when needed.


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