# DirecTV 10 HD Sat launch re-scheduled for July 6/7



## VeniceDre

Space.com has a SpaceFlight Now article covering ANIK F3 launch yesterday and it states ILS Launch's next is 'anticipated" to be DirecTV in June.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sfn_070409_anikf3_proton_lnch.html

Quote:

"The next commercial Proton launch is anticipated in June carrying a broadcasting satellite for DirecTV."

Let's hope so.


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## cavihitts

can't wait


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## jimmyv2000

lets hope the new bird goes up in June so more HD just in time for FOOTBALL SEASON


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## quizzer

VeniceDre said:


> Space.com has a SpaceFlight Now article covering ANIK F3 launch yesterday and it states ILS Launch's next is 'anticipated" to be DirecTV in June.
> 
> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sfn_070409_anikf3_proton_lnch.html
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "The next commercial Proton launch is anticipated in June carrying a broadcasting satellite for DirecTV."
> 
> Let's hope so.


Will this make Directv to move the HD satellite to 99 and 103?


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## veryoldschool

quizzer said:


> Will this make Directv to move the HD satellite to 99 and 103?


One of those "slots" is where it is to go into orbit for the new HD channels.


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## PoitNarf

quizzer said:


> Will this make Directv to move the HD satellite to 99 and 103?


Huh? This sat to be launched as well as the next one later this year will go in the 99 and 103 orbital slots. There are already 2 sats in these slots right now which were launched last year. Once the 2 sats this year go up there will be 2 sats at both the 99 and 103 orbital slots.


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## mthompso105

The same article is at spaceflightnow.com plus they have a launch schedule at is more current than some, and it has the DirectTV 10 launch listed. I'd have put a link but I am only at lowly post#4  
Mike


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## litzdog911

Sweet!!!


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## Tom Robertson

mthompso105 said:


> The same article is at spaceflightnow.com plus they have a launch schedule at is more current than some, and it has the DirectTV 10 launch listed. I'd have put a link but I am only at lowly post#4
> Mike


Welcome to the forums, Mike. :welcome_s

If you don't mind, I'll go ahead and post the launch calendar link you refer to: http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html

Cheers,
Tom


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## harsh

There seems to be a slot in the second week of June if anik is correct about July 7th being the Sirius 4 launch.


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## Sackchamp56

harsh said:


> There seems to be a slot in the second week of June if anik is correct about July 7th being the Sirius 4 launch.


I hope you are right. If we give them 6 weeks for the handoff, we could be rollin in HD by August. SWEET!


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## lbostons

Great post! This is of the best news I have heard in awhile.


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## DawgLink

Wohhhooo!


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## cb7214

:joy:


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## VeniceDre

Tom Robertson said:


> Welcome to the forums, Mike. :welcome_s
> 
> If you don't mind, I'll go ahead and post the launch calendar link you refer to: http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Looks like that list was also updated today.

I'll be keeping an eye on the ILSLaunch website over the next few weeks to see if they update their mission blog. Hopefully we'll get a definitive date soon.

:allthumbs


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## Radio Enginerd

VeniceDre said:


> Looks like that list was also updated today.
> 
> I'll be keeping an eye on the ILSLaunch website over the next few weeks to see if they update their mission blog. Hopefully we'll get a definitive date soon.
> 
> :allthumbs


Not knowing how close they stick to launch dates, I'll hold my breath but this is *VERY* promising to say the least.

Time to make your HR-20 order! When August comes they'll be in REALLY short supply and I'm willing to stand behind those remarks.


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## VeniceDre

Radio Enginerd said:


> Time to make your HR-20 order! When August comes they'll be in REALLY short supply and I'm willing to stand behind those remarks.


You're right on that! There can be up to a two month wait here in the Los Angeles area through DirecTV if you don't go buy one at retail yourself.

Hopefully the additional manufacturers DirecTV has brought on recently will help with demand.


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## thxultra

Can't wait to get those birds in the sky. Going to be great when all the new hd content gets launched


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## HarleyD

VeniceDre said:


> You're right on that! There can be up to a two month wait here in the Los Angeles area through DirecTV if you don't go buy one at retail yourself.
> 
> Hopefully the additional manufacturers DirecTV has brought on recently will help with demand.


Unless they bring in more installers you could still be in for a wait.

Hardware isn't the only bottleneck in getting an HR-20 and AT9 dish installed.


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## Michael D'Angelo

Hopefully the June date is right. Can't wait for some more HD.


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## Radio Enginerd

HarleyD said:


> Unless they bring in more installers you could still be in for a wait.
> 
> Hardware isn't the only bottleneck in getting an HR-20 and AT9 dish installed.


Fair point...

Back in September, I was lucky to get an installer that took the time to do things right. Do Things Right = Under eve mount, mono poles, the whole works.

He even took extra time to align and "true up" the dish for the new birds when they take flight and it still took *3-4 hours*.


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## Radio Enginerd

BMoreRavens said:


> Hopefully the June date is right. Can't wait for some more HD.


*IF* that June date happens and DTV gets all it's ducks in order with hardware, installers, and agreements with content providers it will be a great Q4 for DTV... That's for sure!

Can anyone say HDTV's and DTV will be one of the hottest Christmas gifts?


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## harsh

BMoreRavens said:


> Hopefully the June date is right. Can't wait for some more HD.


Note that there is no "date" as of yet.


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## VeniceDre

HarleyD said:


> Unless they bring in more installers you could still be in for a wait.
> 
> Hardware isn't the only bottleneck in getting an HR-20 and AT9 dish installed.


True that, at first there was a manpower issue, now it's a Hr20 issue here in L.A... If you get the HR20 yourself now you can usually get the 5 LNB dish intsalled in about 2 weeks depending on the area.


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## HarleyD

I know here in Winter Haven Florida I had to wait a month from the time I ordered for the HR20 to be installed.

The hardware was available but I had to wait on the guy who could read that spoke English.


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## ScoBuck

Ah - but there IS a date. I'm sure that DirecTV knows it.


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## Tom Robertson

So avoid the Independence Day rush, order them Hr20s now. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson

ScoBuck said:


> Ah - but there IS a date. I'm sure that DirecTV knows it.


Slight correction  DIRECTV has known _them_. And the current one. And likely one more... (presuming a weather delay is always possible)

Cheers,
Tom


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## ScoBuck

Tom Robertson said:


> Slight correction  DIRECTV has known _them_. And the current one. And likely one more... (presuming a weather delay is always possible)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Oh I agree - no doubt.


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## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> Ah - but there IS a date. I'm sure that DirecTV knows it.


Perhaps when Boeing finishes the satellite and delivers it to DirecTV, they'll be willing to share it. As it is, it would appear that Boeing is running seriously behind schedule on DirecTV 11.


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## LameLefty

harsh said:


> Perhaps when Boeing finishes the satellite and delivers it to DirecTV, they'll be willing to share it. As it is, it would appear that Boeing is running seriously behind schedule on DirecTV 11.


What in the world gives you that idea? A June launch date puts it only a few months behind the "Q1" estimates from two years ago. Having spent the entirety of my brief engineering career in aerospace (and actually working for Boeing) I will assure you that a three month slip over the course of several years is hardly "seriously behind schedule."

Besides which, and very much to the point, the shortages of HR20 and (*ahem*) ACTUAL PROGRAMMING to make use of the satellite hardly makes this a situation where every week matters all that much.

Unless you have better information to post besides your negative speculations, you're just trolling.


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## Blitz68

jimmyv2000 said:


> lets hope the new bird goes up in June so *more HD just in time for FOOTBALL SEASON*


Does not have anything to do with that.

The limitations to NFL HD are the networks not DirecTV. Especially CBS, 3 games a week what a joke.


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## RAD

harsh said:


> Perhaps when Boeing finishes the satellite and delivers it to DirecTV, they'll be willing to share it. As it is, it would appear that Boeing is running seriously behind schedule on DirecTV 11.


So what's the rush on D11 anyway since Sealauch had their little malfunction? It's not going to be going anywhere until 4th QTR based on what SeaLaunch is saying about when they'll be back in business.


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## Tom Robertson

harsh said:


> Perhaps when Boeing finishes the satellite and delivers it to DirecTV, they'll be willing to share it. As it is, it would appear that Boeing is running seriously behind schedule on DirecTV 11.


From a certain point of view, Boeing is behind on both, as they _were_ hoped for late 2006ish. But many parts are built to order and have long lead times. One the other hand, they are just in time to meet the schedule announced two years ago.

As for more football HD...well you've seen the enhancements for NASCAR? 

Cheers,
Tom


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## bobnielsen

Tom Robertson said:


> From a certain point of view, Boeing is behind on both, as they _were_ hoped for late 2006ish. But many parts are built to order and have long lead times. One the other hand, they are just in time to meet the schedule announced two years ago.


A lot of the parts are not only built to order, but also designed to order, with many unknown factors to face. I worked at Hughes (including the satellite operation which is now part of Boeing) for many years and delays are quite common. This project is probably doing better than most.


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## harsh

LameLefty said:


> What in the world gives you that idea? A June launch date puts it only a few months behind the "Q1" estimates from two years ago.


What gives me the idea that DirecTV 11 has slipped is that Boeing recently revised their delivery schedule from 2007/DOG to TBD. Such is not to say that a 2007 delivery of DirecTV 11 is out of the question, but it is certainly questionable.

The optimists can freely speculate that Boeing and DirecTV have agreed that they couldn't get it aloft if even if it were completed.

The realists understand that in the unlikely event of a serious problem with DirecTV 10, they had better have a backup plan. Without completing DirecTV 11, their fallback solutions seem limited. I can't imagine that there are many free Ka satellites floating around in the Clark Belt that could be pressed into service.


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## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> What gives me the idea that DirecTV 11 has slipped is that Boeing recently revised their delivery schedule from 2007/DOG to TBD. Such is not to say that a 2007 delivery of DirecTV 11 is out of the question, but it is certainly questionable.
> 
> The optimists can freely speculate that Boeing and DirecTV have agreed that they couldn't get it aloft if even if it were completed.
> 
> The realists understand that in the unlikely event of a serious problem with DirecTV 10, they had better have a backup plan. Without completing DirecTV 11, their fallback solutions seem limited. I can't imagine that there are many free Ka satellites floating around in the Clark Belt that could be pressed into service.


Man are you negative (but only about DirecTV it seems). They are also building DirecTV 12 as a spare. But launching is only one time that a sat can have a problem - almost the entire Echostar fleet had problems in the past year. A problem with Echostar 10 would be catostrophic to DISH.


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## elaclair

harsh said:


> What gives me the idea that DirecTV 11 has slipped is that Boeing recently revised their delivery schedule from 2007/DOG to TBD. Such is not to say that a 2007 delivery of DirecTV 11 is out of the question, but it is certainly questionable.
> 
> The optimists can freely speculate that Boeing and DirecTV have agreed that they couldn't get it aloft if even if it were completed.
> 
> The realists understand that in the unlikely event of a serious problem with DirecTV 10, they had better have a backup plan. Without completing DirecTV 11, their fallback solutions seem limited. I can't imagine that there are many free Ka satellites floating around in the Clark Belt that could be pressed into service.


Does anyone know if Boeing supplies the launch collar for the SATs? If so, that could explain the change to TBD for the Delivery On Ground since WHICH launch platform to be used seems to be up in the air.


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## newlions

How many markets do you think Directv 10 will deliver HD locals to? Half of the remaining ones without HD locals? I'm in DMA 98 so I think I might be covered if that happens.


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## Tom Robertson

newlions said:


> How many markets do you think Directv 10 will deliver HD locals to? Half of the remaining ones without HD locals? I'm in DMA 98 so I think I might be covered if that happens.


When the D10 and D11 are both operational, D* would have the capability to re-transmit every HD main channel currently on the air, give or take a couple.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Guest

Blitz68 said:


> Does not have anything to do with that.
> 
> The limitations to NFL HD are the networks not DirecTV. Especially CBS, 3 games a week what a joke.


I think he's referring to NFL Network in HD. It would be nice to have that in time for the football season.


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## MikeR7

Harsh and Nick = "nattering nabobs of negativism"


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## lwilli201

Mr. Williams,

Thank you for your compliment and for your interest in the Proton
launches. Our next launch is DIRECTV10, scheduled for June 2007. The
best way to keep up on the latest information is to continue to visit
our website for updates. We will start another blog for the DIRECTV
launch when our launch team departs for Moscow; sometime in May. 

Regards,

Lori VanDyne
International Launch Services
Manager, Communications


Above is a reply from ILS on their next launch. Looks like D10 in June.


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## Mark20

lwilli201 said:


> when our launch team departs for Moscow; sometime in May.


Nice assignment! Though could easily mean a month from home.

Where is that Star Trek transporter when you need it?


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## Tom Robertson

Thanks lwilli201, great work!
Tom


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## StangGT909

So I assume any additional satellites will use existing LNB's on the 5-LNB dish?

How many are currently being used? 

I can't imagine what b-grade celebrities will be doing commercials when DTV actually has more HD content.


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## lwilli201

No more LNBs needed to receive the new sats. The new sats will be co-located with the current sats at 99 and 103.


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## Tom Robertson

To followup, no new LNBs or equipment BUT make sure your BBCs are in place. These new satellites will be using the Ka B-band frequencies, the ones the BBCs upconvert when you tune to those channels. If your BBCs are in an attic, test them now before everyone rushes to replace the ones they've lost, the installers never installed (and took away), or that have failed.

Cheers,
Tom


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## VeniceDre

lwilli201 said:


> Mr. Williams,
> 
> Thank you for your compliment and for your interest in the Proton
> launches. Our next launch is DIRECTV10, scheduled for June 2007. The
> best way to keep up on the latest information is to continue to visit
> our website for updates. We will start another blog for the DIRECTV
> launch when our launch team departs for Moscow; sometime in May.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Lori VanDyne
> International Launch Services
> Manager, Communications
> 
> Above is a reply from ILS on their next launch. Looks like D10 in June.


Great job there dropping them a line... Now if I could just figure out how to take the question mark out of the thread title...


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## lwilli201

VeniceDre said:


> Great job there dropping them a line... Now if I could just figure out how to take the question mark out of the thread title...


Can Tibber take care of that?

I emailed to complement them on their coverage of the Anik F3 Launch and asked about the next launch. It was almost to easy. :lol:


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## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> Man are you negative (but only about DirecTV it seems).


I'm rarely disappointed. I'd like to think that I'm being realistic as opposed to hanging my hat on the most favorable of press releases, utterances from CSRs/installers/CEOs or whispers on the Internet that I can find.


> They are also building DirecTV 12 as a spare.


That's the right thing to do, but is it close enough behind to do any good should there be a problem with DirecTV 10?


> But launching is only one time that a sat can have a problem - almost the entire Echostar fleet had problems in the past year.


There's been a nagging problem (wobbling) with Echostar 5 at 129W, but the rest of the fleet seems to be relatively trouble-free.


> A problem with Echostar 10 would be catostrophic to DISH.


It would cause concern. For the most part, they could relocate the HD LIL channels to 61.5 and 129 (no dish change required) until something could be fixed or possibly move some more HD LIL to 118.75W and upgrade some dishes. There is still some Dish Network bandwidth on the FSS satellites at 105W and 121W if something really bad happens.

The difference is that Dish Network wasn't strapped before DirecTV 10 and they shouldn't be strapped for a while. DirecTV is strapped until they can get one of the DirecTV 1x satellites up and running. There have been (and continue to be) waaaay too many claims of "wait until later this year" from the cheerleaders. I'm taking the conservative approach.

I figure that sometime early next year, I'm going to want to re-evaluate my multichannel entertainment options. As I suggest to others, it will be based on what is available at the time and not what is promised. If Comcast and DirecTV don't improve in ways that appeal to me, I'll be staying with Dish.


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## VeniceDre

lwilli201 said:


> Can Tibber take care of that?
> 
> I emailed to complement them on their coverage of the Anik F3 Launch and asked about the next launch. It was almost to easy. :lol:


I was going to do the same thing but I didn't think I'd get a quick response back so I just decided to wait for the blog update.

ILS is pretty damn good about their blog entries so we'll get to see many updates once they start the D10 Blog in MAY as they indicated...

Good times, good times.


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## Tom Robertson

lwilli201 said:


> Can Tibber take care of that?
> 
> I emailed to complement them on their coverage of the Anik F3 Launch and asked about the next launch. It was almost to easy. :lol:


Tibber, I mean Tom Robertson, took care of that.  (Changed the title a bit.)

Yes, ILSlaunch's blog was outstanding! May their blog for D10 start next week and culminate with success in May even. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## RAD

harsh said:


> There's been a nagging problem (wobbling) with Echostar 5 at 129W, but the rest of the fleet seems to be relatively trouble-free.It would cause concern.


You might want to check:

http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo3.html
http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo4.html
http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo5.html
http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo6.html


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## cygnusloop

harsh said:


> I'm rarely disappointed. I'd like to think that I'm being realistic as opposed to hanging my hat on the most favorable of press releases...


Ah, harsh, it just wouldn't be the same around here without you...


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## bobnielsen

StangGT909 said:


> So I assume any additional satellites will use existing LNB's on the 5-LNB dish?
> 
> How many are currently being used?
> 
> I can't imagine what b-grade celebrities will be doing commercials when DTV actually has more HD content.


All 5 are currently being used. Ka-band is divided into two segments and only one of these is being used (on both 99 and 103). Directv 10 and 11 will use the other sub-band.

I just can't wait until the Sanjaya commercial shows up :bonk1:


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## heavyobjects

harsh said:


> I'm rarely disappointed.


I have an idea. Why don't you open a thread that compares the preparations each of your "multichannel" options are making to introduce new technology, launch new satellites, etc.?

You harp on the "bird in hand" technology (which D* has also) in regard to EchoStar, but you seem to have no forward thinking. I'd much rather be with a company that has both 1) channels I want now AND 2) preparations/plans/dates for channels/content I want later. As far as I'm concerned, most other providers out there are slim on #1 and nonexistent on #2.

I put the line on you switching providers at 3:2 by next spring. I put the line on you switching to *gasp* you-know-who by next spring at 2:1.


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## digiblur

Anyone have any FCC technical data on this bird?


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## MikeR7

heavyobjects said:


> I have an idea. Why don't you open a thread that compares the preparations each of your "multichannel" options are making to introduce new technology, launch new satellites, etc.?
> 
> You harp on the "bird in hand" technology (which D* has also) in regard to EchoStar, but you seem to have no forward thinking. I'd much rather be with a company that has both 1) channels I want now AND 2) preparations/plans/dates for channels/content I want later. As far as I'm concerned, most other providers out there are slim on #1 and nonexistent on #2.
> 
> I put the line on you switching providers at 3:2 by next spring. I put the line on you switching to *gasp* you-know-who by next spring at 2-1.


I wish I had said this


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## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> I'm rarely disappointed. I'd like to think that I'm being realistic as opposed to hanging my hat on the most favorable of press releases,


nope - you hang your hat on the LEAST favorable - and you do it 100% of the time. While the most favorable won't be totally accurate, NEITHER will the LEAST favorable. So, your thinking is faulty really IMO.


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## Tom Robertson

digiblur said:


> Anyone have any FCC technical data on this bird?


8-10 pages in the sticky thread: DIRECTV and Ka (with satellite configs)

And if that doesn't make your head hurt, there are about 40 links to the FCC in there. And if _that_ doesn't do it, you can get a ton of money working as an attorney specializing on FCC satellite requests.  One of the links is a redacted contract from DIRECTV with Boeing, btw.

Cheers,
Tom


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## purtman

harsh said:


> I'm rarely disappointed. I'd like to think that I'm being realistic as opposed to hanging my hat on the most favorable of press releases, utterances from CSRs/installers/CEOs or whispers on the Internet that I can find.


Rarely disappointed? Maybe. However, it has to be tough living in a negative funk all the time. Also, expecting the worst each time out is not even close to being realistic. It's also a disservice to those who think your answers are realistic.


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## VeniceDre

harsh said:


> I'm rarely disappointed. I'd like to think that I'm being realistic as opposed to hanging my hat on the most favorable of press releases, utterances from CSRs/installers/CEOs or whispers on the Internet that I can find.


Harsh: Sees the glass as half empty 

VeniceDre: Sees the glass as half full and soon to be brimming over the top 

I'm not mad at ya Harsh, we need the skeptics to keep us on our toes. Hopefully you and the attack bassett will join us here as a DirecTV subscriber come fall to spring of next year.


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## VeniceDre

purtman said:


> Rarely disappointed? Maybe. However, it has to be tough living in a negative funk all the time. Also, expecting the worst each time out is not even close to being realistic. It's also a disservice to those who think your answers are realistic.


Especially when the latest info is corraborated by the actual launch company... Can it still be delayed? Sure. The Sat might not be ready in time if it isn't already, there might be other launch delays. But at least we know for sure now that the next launch for ILS is the DirecTV and they have it scheduled for June.


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## LameLefty

> I'm not mad at ya Harsh,


I'm not mad at him either but I do question his motivation. I mean, I don't spend time on the Dish Network forums putting the most negative spin on their situation as possible. Do the rest of you? I hang out here to get info about the products and services I'm actually using.

When (and only when) I'm seriously considering changing or altering things in the near term (a month or so), I start lurking on product or service forums dedicated to my options (cell phone, cars, etc). Once I make the decision, I focus on what I have, not on denigrating what I don't.

Most of us have a word for what Harsh has been doing - trolling.


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## leww37334

VeniceDre said:


> Harsh: Sees the glass as half empty
> 
> VeniceDre: Sees the glass as half full and soon to be brimming over the top
> 
> I'm not mad at ya Harsh, we need the skeptics to keep us on our toes. Hopefully you and the attack bassett will join us here as a DirecTV subscriber come fall to spring of next year.


the pessimist sees the glass as half empty
the optimist sees the glass as half full
the engineer says you used the wrong size glass.


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## Tom Robertson

The topic is D10's Scheduled launch in June, folks. Please stick to that. :backtotop

Cheers,
Tom


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## kevinwmsn

I hope they put the launch of this on TV in HD.


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## Tom Robertson

HDnet often does. DIRECTV will also put their launches on a channel as well.

I don't know Baikonur is setup for HD, the Anik F3 camera angles looked kinda limited. But some pix is lots better than no pix!

Cheers,
Tom


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## newlions

Tom Robertson said:


> When the D10 and D11 are both operational, D* would have the capability to re-transmit every HD main channel currently on the air, give or take a couple.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Thanks, but my question is will DMA 98 HD Locals most likely be on D10 or D11? :lol:


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## RAD

newlions said:


> Thanks, but my question is will DMA 98 HD Locals most likely be on D10 or D11? :lol:


Yes, either one Only D* knows for sure and they aren't talking.

It really shouldn't matter since you're going to need to be able to receive both 99 and 103 to be able to receive any new HD national channels also.


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## Tom Robertson

newlions said:


> Thanks, but my question is will DMA 98 HD Locals most likely be on D10 or D11? :lol:


DMA 98, could go on either D10 or D11, either has room easily to get to DMA 98. I'm sorry to say tho, that DMA 98 will lite up when DIRECTV has the ground resources and receivers ready. Lately... that seems like it could be 98 could go after D11 is launched--just because they haven't been liting up DMA's as quickly as we'd like.

But! Now that another HR20 manufacturer is spinning up, DIRECTV might be able to ramp up more HD locals very quickly again. Who knows?

Good luck,
Tom


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## lwilli201

Tom Robertson said:


> HDnet often does. DIRECTV will also put their launches on a channel as well.
> 
> I don't know Baikonur is setup for HD, the Anik F3 camera angles looked kinda limited. But some pix is lots better than no pix!
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I thought that the internet coverage of the Anik F3 was very good. The picture PQ was much better than I had expected. Im sure they will also have the same coverage for the Directv launch. Go 10.


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## Newshawk

newlions said:


> Thanks, but my question is will DMA 98 HD Locals most likely be on D10 or D11? :lol:


They'd most likey still be on Spaceways 1 or 2 as they are both all spotbeam sats and will carry the majority of HD loclas.


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## harsh

RAD said:


> You might want to check:
> 
> http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo3.html
> http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo4.html
> http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo5.html
> http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo6.html


The most recent of these difficulties was in January 2004. That does not support the contention that Echostar had trouble with all of their satellites within the last year (or three). Given that the site was updated last in 2004 should have been your first indication.


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## RAD

harsh said:


> The most recent of these difficulties was in January 2004. That does not support the contention that Echostar had trouble with all of their satellites within the last year (or three). Given that the site was updated last in 2004 should have been your first indication.


True, the OP said in the past year but with all these little problems I wouldn't call the E* fleet relatively trouble free as you did, they've had their issues. Also, for the site being kept up to date, if you click on the timeline link you'll see the last update was on 4/5/2007.


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## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> The topic is D10's Scheduled launch in June, folks. Please stick to that. :backtotop


Can we call it planned up to the point that there is a launch time?

On second thought, since the ILS representative used the word "scheduled" in response to iwilli201's query, I guess it is the official word.


----------



## cforrest

The next launch is indeed in June and yes it is Directv! I just got an email back from Fran at ILS Launch. She stated she doesn't put the next launch mission in the PR if it's a different customer. So June is the next anticipated launch for Directv!


----------



## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> Note that there is no "date" as of yet.


oh harsh!

from the official Baikonur launch site webpage:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/2007.html

please note June launch and they have corrected to read DIRECTV10.

If I was you I would place my order for D* equipment soon, the wait will be getting long soon.


----------



## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> from the official Baikonur launch site webpage:
> 
> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/2007.html


Please read the first sentence under the "GENERAL INFO AND MISSION STATEMENT" header: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/site_info.html


----------



## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> The most recent of these difficulties was in January 2004. That does not support the contention that Echostar had trouble with all of their satellites within the last year (or three). Given that the site was updated last in 2004 should have been your first indication.


Well - here is the very latest updated info taken directly from the DISH NETWORK 10-k which was filed on March 1, 2007 (recent enough?)

The only sat NOT having an anomaly in the VERY recent past is Echostar X - just launched a year ago - but read what they say about the vital need for this bird to stay trouble free. As you will see my post about the problems with almost their entire sat fleet is well documented.

link to this info is:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix...vPXRlbmsmaXBhZ2U9NDcxMTUwNSZkb2M9MSZudW09MTE=

*EchoStar I.* EchoStar I was launched during December 1995 and currently operates at the 148 degree orbital location. The satellite can operate up to 16 transponders at 130 watts per channel. *During the second quarter of 2006*, the satellite experienced anomalies resulting in the possible loss of two solar array strings. An investigation of the anomalies is continuing.

*EchoStar II.* EchoStar II was launched during September 1996 and currently operates at the 148 degree orbital location. The satellite can operate up to 16 transponders at 130 watts per channel. *During February 2007*, the satellite experienced an anomaly which prevented its north solar array from rotating.

*EchoStar III*. EchoStar III was launched during October 1997 and currently operates at the 61.5 degree orbital location. The satellite was originally designed to operate a maximum of 32 transponders at approximately 120 watts channel, switchable to 16 transponders operating at over 230 watts per channel, and was equipped with a total of 44 transponders to provide redundancy. Prior to 2006, TWTA anomalies caused 22 transponders to fail. *During April and October 2006*, further TWTA anomalies caused the failure of four additional transponders. As a result, a maximum of 18 transponders are currently available for use on EchoStar III, but due to redundancy switching limitations and specific channel authorizations, we can only operate 15 of the 19 FCC authorized frequencies we have the right to utilize at the 61.5 degree location.

*EchoStar V*. EchoStar V was launched during September 1999 and currently operates at the 129 degree orbital location. The satellite was originally designed with a minimum 12-year design life. As previously disclosed, momentum wheel failures in prior years, together with relocation of the satellite between orbital locations, resulted in increased fuel consumption. These issues have not impacted commercial operation of the satellite, but have reduced the remaining spacecraft life to less than two years as of December 31, 2006. Prior to 2006, EchoStar V also experienced anomalies resulting in the loss of six solar array strings. *During July 2006, the satellite lost an additional solar array string.*

*EchoStar VI*. EchoStar VI was launched during July 2000 and is currently stationed at the 110 degree orbital location as an in-orbit spare. The satellite was originally equipped with 108 solar array strings, approximately 102 of which are required to assure full power availability for the original minimum 12-year design life of the satellite. Prior to 2006, EchoStar VI experienced anomalies resulting in the loss of 15 solar array strings. *During 2006, two additional solar array strings failed, reducing the number of functional solar array strings to 91*.

*EchoStar VII*. EchoStar VII was launched during February 2002 and currently operates at the 119 degree orbital location. *During March 2006, the satellite experienced an anomaly which resulted in the loss of a receiver.*

*EchoStar VIII*. EchoStar VIII was launched during August 2002 and currently operates at the 110 degree orbital location. The satellite was designed to operate 32 transponders at approximately 120 watts per channel, switchable to 16 transponders operating at approximately 240 watts per channel. EchoStar VIII also includes spot-beam technology. *As previously disclosed, the satellite has experienced several anomalies since launch*

*EchoStar IX*. EchoStar IX was launched during August 2003 and currently operates at the 121 degree orbital location. The satellite was designed to operate 32 FSS transponders operating at approximately 110 watts per channel, along with transponders that can provide services in the Ka-Band (a "Ka-band payload"). EchoStar IX provides expanded video and audio channels to DISH Network subscribers who install a specially-designed dish. The Ka-band spectrum is being used to test and verify potential future broadband initiatives and to implement those services. The satellite also includes a C-band payload which is owned by a third party. *During the fourth quarter of 2006, EchoStar IX experienced the loss of one of its three momentum wheels,* two of which are utilized during normal operations.

*EchoStar XII.* EchoStar XII was launched during July 2003 and currently operates at the 61.5 degree orbital location. The satellite was designed to operate 13 transponders at 270 watts per channel, in CONUS mode, or 22 spot beams using a combination of 135 and 65 watt TWTAs. We currently operate the satellite in CONUS mode. EchoStar XII has a total of 24 solar array circuits, approximately 22 of which are required to assure full power for the original minimum 12-year design life of the satellite. Prior to 2006, two solar array circuits failed, one of which was subsequently restored to partial use. *During 2006, three additional solar array circuits failed. The cause of the failures is being investigated*.

And regarding X:

*EchoStar X*. EchoStar X was launched during February 2006 and currently operates at the 110 degree orbital location. Its 49 spot beams use up to 42 active 140 watt TWTAs to provide standard and HD local channels, and other programming, to markets across the United States. *In the event our EchoStar X satellite experienced a significant failure, we would lose the ability to deliver local network channels in many markets.* While we would attempt to minimize the number of lost markets through the use of spare satellites and programming line up changes, *some markets would be without local channels until a replacement satellite with similar spot beam capability could be launched and operational. *


----------



## veryoldschool

Now this *must* be too far off topic, as I don't give a.....about E* [at least here].
:backtotop which is the D* SAT launch...


----------



## ScoBuck

veryoldschool said:


> Now this *must* be too far off topic, as I don't give a.....about E* [at least here].
> :backtotop which is the D* SAT launch...


it is but I felt I had to make a correction to harsh's incorrect statements. sorry - I will keep it on topic.


----------



## veryoldschool

ScoBuck said:


> it is but I felt I had to make a correction to harsh's incorrect statements. sorry - I will keep it on topic.


Thank you, next time try a PM...I've "been there before"..


----------



## Tom Robertson

Thank you for returning to topic. I do not want to close this thread. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Tom Robertson

JPL just updated their Launch Calendar to June. No date yet: http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/#0706

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Yep - it's all true, they will be crating me for shipment in a couple of days. I am eager to get on station and begin my loyal and dedicated service to all the milions of wonderful DirecTV subscribers.

I will try to post some updates as things allow.


----------



## Supervolcano

DirecTV10 said:


> Yep - it's all true, they will be crating me for shipment in a couple of days. I am eager to get on station and begin my loyal and dedicated service to all the milions of wonderful DirecTV subscribers.
> 
> I will try to post some updates as things allow.


Make sure they put enough Twinkies and Gatorade in the crate. You have to keep your strength up somehow until they can turn on your solar power.


----------



## Tom Robertson

And Anik has updated his calendar at nasaspaceflight.com

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## purtman

Let's just hope China doesn't test its anti-satellite defense system in June.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Tom Robertson

purtman said:


> Let's just hope China doesn't test its anti-satellite defense system in June.
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


If anyone picked an active D* HD satellite for their tests this year, they would be nuked faster than a New York minute! 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## uncrules

Tom Robertson said:


> If anyone picked an active D* HD satellite for their tests this year, they would be nuked faster than a New York minute!
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I'd push the button.


----------



## veryoldschool

uncrules said:


> I'd push the button.


Nukes are controlled by a "two man policy" [two "keys" for the button], so I'll be your second man...


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> If anyone picked an active D* HD satellite for their tests this year, they would be nuked faster than a New York minute!


Geo satellites are too easy. Much more challenging to intercept a LEO satellite.


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> Geo satellites are too easy. Much more challenging to intercept a LEO satellite.


No, they're really not. They're far too high to intercept quickly, which means the attack will be seen hours or days in coming; it requires too much (kinetic) energy to even get there in the first place to get by with a small booster that might go unnoticed (*) by DoD monitoring satellites, and they're too high to effectively dazzle with directed energy weapons (which would have to be located in the sat's field of view anyway - which means somewhere in the Western Hemisphere for DirecTV's fleet).

In short, more misinformation from Harsh.

(*) Anything much larger than an Estes D-size model motor lighting off gets noticed anyway, pretty much anywhere in the world - multispectral monitoring by government satellites is very, very sophisticated. Okay, I exaggerate - but not by much. If something gets above the troposphere, it gets noticed.


----------



## veryoldschool

LameLefty said:


> No, they're really not. They're far too high to intercept quickly, which means the attack will be seen hours or days in coming; it requires too much (kinetic) energy to even get there in the first place to get by with a small booster that might go unnoticed (*) by DoD monitoring satellites, and they're too high to effectively dazzle with directed energy weapons (which would have to be located in the sat's field of view anyway - which means somewhere in the Western Hemisphere for DirecTV's fleet).
> 
> In short, more misinformation from Harsh.
> 
> (*) Anything much larger than an Estes D-size model motor lighting off gets noticed anyway, pretty much anywhere in the world - multispectral monitoring by government satellites is very, very sophisticated. Okay, I exaggerate - but not by much. If something gets above the troposphere, it gets noticed.


Where's my slingshot? I'll get it.


----------



## lwilli201

veryoldschool said:


> Where's my slingshot? I'll get it.


You must have a whopper of a slingshot. :lol:


----------



## DIRECTV-11

Please folks, this stuff is really not funny to me. I am not at all comfortable with this kind of talk. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

directv11 said:


> Please folks, this stuff is really not funny to me. I am not at all comfortable with this kind of talk. :lol:


I'm here to protect you with my slingshot, so don't worry "we've" got your back..:lol:


----------



## HarleyD

Topic? What Topic?


----------



## JeffBowser

That E* satellite problem post was very interesting. Does one similar exist for DirecTV ? I can't imagin D* has been completely trouble free either...


----------



## RAD

JeffBowser said:


> That E* satellite problem post was very interesting. Does one similar exist for DirecTV ? I can't imagin D* has been completely trouble free either...


Yep, they've had problems also, a place to start is 
http://www.sat-index.com/failures/index.html


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> No, they're really not.


So there's no such thing as being more difficult to hit a moving target?

Obviously, the Chinese proved that taking out a LEO satellite is possible, but I'm not thoroughly convinced by your arguments that if someone launched a capable vehicle that it would necessarily be intercepted. I'd guess that it wouldn't even require much of a warhead to disable a communications satellite.


----------



## veryoldschool

Where does anti-SAT technology fit into the topic?
I've known of it since the 80s with a F-15 test, but how does this relate to the launch schedule for June?


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> So there's no such thing as being more difficult to hit a moving target?


You need to take a class in orbital mechanics. All satellites are moving, quite fast in fact.



> Obviously, the Chinese proved that taking out a LEO satellite is possible,


The U.S. and Russians proved it decades ago. The U.S. with kinetic kill, the Russians with a co-orbital explosive ASAT. Both have dabbled (with some success) with directed energy. NONE of these technologies is likely to be effective against geosynchronous targets, with the possible exception of a co-orbital kill vehicle. Again, the energy necessary to get a kill vehicle to that altitude is such that the launch of such a vehicle would not go unnoticed.



> but I'm not thoroughly convinced by your arguments that if someone launched a capable vehicle that it would necessarily be intercepted.


I never wrote a word about intercepting a kill vehicle - I said the launch of such a vehicle would not go unnoticed.


----------



## veryoldschool

see post #104
Maybe try sending a PM


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> I never wrote a word about intercepting a kill vehicle - I said the launch of such a vehicle would not go unnoticed.


Does a kill vehicle being "noticed" necessarily impact its success? Does a watched pot truly never boil? If a tree falls in the woods...?


----------



## harsh

veryoldschool said:


> Where does anti-SAT technology fit into the topic?


Perhaps you should be asking this of purtman and/or tibber.


----------



## RAD

harsh said:


> Perhaps you should be asking this of purtman and/or tibber.


How about starting a new thread about this since the vast majority don't care about this discussion.


----------



## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> Perhaps you should be asking this of purtman and/or tibber.


perhaps you can get on-topic


----------



## JLucPicard

+1

One more vote for getting back on topic!!!

I click into this thread looking for information/updates, etc. on the launch of DirecTv10. I could give a rats butt about strategic defense technology and how to blow satellites out of the sky.

Please take it to PM, or better yet, just let it drop all together.


----------



## uncrules

+2


----------



## Drew2k

This is hysterical. All the +1 posts aren't getting us back to topic either, and now you made ME do it too!


----------



## veryoldschool

:backtotop


----------



## DIRECTV-10

+ 3 You all can expect to hear some news very soon. It won't be long.


----------



## PoitNarf

DirecTV10 said:


> + 3 You all can expect to hear some news very soon. It won't be long.


I believe that depends on your definition of soon Mr. Satellite :lol:


----------



## Steve Robertson

DirecTV10 said:


> + 3 You all can expect to hear some news very soon. It won't be long.


June is only 6 weeks away is that "soon"


----------



## Radio Enginerd

DirecTV10 said:


> + 3 You all can expect to hear some news very soon. It won't be long.


I'm dying to find out who is behind this account...


----------



## mike_augie

I wonder if one of the mods could veryify his knowledge for us like they did with Satelliteracer, for us not that it is not fun..but good info is very hard to come by..just a thought...and hopeing that all is good....


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Steve Robertson said:


> June is only 6 weeks away is that "soon"


Right now I would say 7 is the lucky number. And if anyone would know, it's me.

Hang in there!

:wave:


----------



## DCSholtis

Radio Enginerd said:


> I'm dying to find out who is behind this account...


It's Earl.


----------



## Steve Robertson

DCSholtis said:


> It's Earl.


I agree 100% with you I think he leads a double life:nono2:


----------



## Tom Robertson

While I'm limited as to what can be said about our honored guest speakers, who will only be on-planet a short while longer, I am fairly certain Earl is not posting for them. His arms would have to be very, very long.

And to answer any other questions about DIRECTV10 and DIRECTV11 as users, I'd have to have their permission. But, are you sure you want to spoil the surprise? 

BTW, another launch calendar updated its schedule for DIRECTV10 to the June window: http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/launch.html

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## jdoug

If this thing comes online prior to end of baseball season what are the chances they'll expand MLB EI HD games to new MPEG4 channels?


----------



## Steve Robertson

I love having surprises spoiled so feel free.


----------



## thxultra

Going to be great to start seeing new channels in HD. I'm surprised to hear the new bid is planned for June and not July or later.


----------



## Tom Robertson

jdoug said:


> If this thing comes online prior to end of baseball season what are the chances they'll expand MLB EI HD games to new MPEG4 channels?


Excellent question. (Not that I have an answer, but I am very intrigued by it.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Steve Robertson

I am sure all the birds that are ahead of D*'s bird are going to be useful but I think HD birds should be able to cut in line.


----------



## PoitNarf

jdoug said:


> If this thing comes online prior to end of baseball season what are the chances they'll expand MLB EI HD games to new MPEG4 channels?


Slim to nil until the 2008 season I would say.


----------



## PoitNarf

thxultra said:


> Going to be great to start seeing new channels in HD. I'm surprised to hear the new bid is planned for June and not July or later.


The more important thing I think at this point is how long it's going to take for D10 to go from launch to fully operational status. I'm crossing my fingers for a safe and speedy orbital insertion and operations testing.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Steve Robertson said:


> I am sure all the birds that are ahead of D*'s bird are going to be useful but I think HD birds should be able to cut in line.


I suspect that if DIRECTV10 were ready today, it would be in Baikonur right now, prepping for a launch in a week or two. In other words, I think DIRECTV10 is in final testing, but not yet ready to ship. ILSlaunch is waiting for the satellite, they can usually launch within a month of a previous launch it seems.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Steve Robertson

Tom Robertson said:


> I suspect that if DIRECTV10 were ready today, it would be in Baikonur right now, prepping for a launch in a week or two. In other words, I think DIRECTV10 is in final testing, but not yet ready to ship. ILSlaunch is waiting for the satellite, they can usually launch within a month of a previous launch it seems.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom thanks for the info I guess we all have waited so long these last few months are going to be tough but I guess we are almost there.


----------



## heavyobjects

Tom Robertson said:


> I suspect that if DIRECTV10 were ready today, it would be in Baikonur right now, prepping for a launch in a week or two. In other words, I think DIRECTV10 is in final testing, but not yet ready to ship. ILSlaunch is waiting for the satellite, they can usually launch within a month of a previous launch it seems.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I assume that when it's being shipped, the kind one will update its location from "soon to be on a cruise" to "on a cruise".


----------



## Tom Robertson

My guess is shipment will be via private, luxury (for a satellite) jet. Anik F3 was shipped that way. ILSLaunch's blog short start right about that time, I'm hoping.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## veryoldschool

Tom Robertson said:


> My guess is shipment will be via private, luxury (for a satellite) jet. Anik F3 was shipped that way. ILSLaunch's blog short start right about that time, I'm hoping.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


IIRC: they start them out slowly [like learning to crawl before you walk] & start their trip by aircraft before they get their ride into orbit. They've been sitting for a long time and we don't want them to get motion sickness.


----------



## DIRECTV-11

Tom - if you have any questions for me I will try my best to answer them, but within the disclosure limitations given to me.

As for my brother D10 - he is pretty much done with testing, and is being prepped for shipment. Expect word on that in the very near future.


----------



## mhayes70

Radio Enginerd said:


> I'm dying to find out who is behind this account...


So am I. I can't wait until D10 and D11 get lauched and operational. Also, to find out who is really Directv10 and Directv11.


----------



## DIRECTV-11

Ok - I give up. My true identity is

DIRECTV 12

:group:


----------



## mhayes70

:lol: Very good one!!


----------



## veryoldschool

As I was going to say [before it was proved]: someone with a good sense of humor, involved in the program, that want to keep their job, & will never "come clean".
Thanks for the info & laughs along the way.


----------



## heavyobjects

That doesn't work so well for us users who have the "new post first" feature on.


----------



## DCSholtis

directv11 said:


> Ok - I give up. My true identity is
> 
> ....
> 
> DIRECTV 12
> 
> :group:


Oh SNAP!!! Your only the ground spare!!!...:lol:


----------



## raoul5788

directv11 said:


> Ok - I give up. My true identity is
> 
> ...
> 
> DIRECTV 12
> 
> :group:


Are you saying you are a twin? :grin:


----------



## LameLefty

raoul5788 said:


> Are you saying you are a twin? :grin:


Triplet.


----------



## uncrules

Hey Directv10, after you've launched, how long will it take for you to start broadcasting to your loyal subjects.


----------



## Mark20

I was speaking with a friend who works on GPS satellites figuring a mid-June launch the support staff would have to be on-site in the beginning of May, 6 weeks. He said that was a pretty accurate guess.

So I figure that they would be there at least a couple of days before the sat arrives. It will probably get some more ground testing before mounting on the cradle and eventually rocket.

Its going to be one careful step at a time, those on-orbit service calls are too danged expensive!

Godspeed DIRECTV10!


----------



## DIRECTV-11

LameLefty said:


> Triplet.


Precisely. You're going to eventually have to put up with all 3 of us I'm afraid.


----------



## uncrules

directv11 said:


> Precisely. You're going to eventually have to put up with all 3 of us I'm afraid.


Why? I thought Directv10 and Directv11 were supposed to supply all the needed capacity .


----------



## mhayes70

uncrules said:


> Why? I thought Directv10 and Directv11 were supposed to supply all the needed capacity .


Directv12 is a ground spare.


----------



## Mark20

Eventually one of the current sat's will need to be replaced.


----------



## RAD

Mark20 said:


> Eventually one of the current sat's will need to be replaced.


And according to http://www.dbsforums.com/compare/chart.html, D* has 48 Ka band transponders licenesed at 101 so maybe they'd replace one of the three sats that are there now and gain some more bandwidth? Just a thought.


----------



## Tom Robertson

RAD said:


> And according to http://www.dbsforums.com/compare/chart.html, D* has 48 Ka band transponders licenesed at 101 so maybe they'd replace one of the three sats that are there now and gain some more bandwidth? Just a thought.


At the moment all licenses at 101° are in use for backhauling HD locals and not for home use. But D12 could be launched at some point for an in-space spare or for use at 101°. If used at 101°, we'll have to see some form of change to the dish and/or the switches. The frequency stack plans do not allow for another 1ghz of bandwidth.

One more thing. DIRECTV would have to file for another satellite in space for either role. As a spare for 99° and 103°, they would have the least amount of problem; but to be an active satellite at 101°, the delays thru the FCC would be likely significant given the number of birds already located there. (Plus, Directv 13 is already going thru that request process for the FSS frequencies at 101°, but we won't see that satellite for 4-5 years.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RAD

Tom Robertson said:


> At the moment all licenses at 101° are in use for backhauling HD locals and not for home use. But D12 could be launched at some point for an in-space spare or for use at 101°. If used at 101°, we'll have to see some form of change to the dish and/or the switches. The frequency stack plans do not allow for another 1ghz of bandwidth.
> 
> One more thing. DIRECTV would have to file for another satellite in space for either role. As a spare for 99° and 103°, they would have the least amount of problem; but to be an active satellite at 101°, the delays thru the FCC would be likely significant given the number of birds already located there. (Plus, Directv 13 is already going thru that request process for the FSS frequencies at 101°, but we won't see that satellite for 4-5 years.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I know that 101 is currently used for backhaul from D9S on their KA band. I mentioned it since the DBSTalk site chart says it's DBS transponder licenses so that's what I mentioned it, just assumed that they were correct.


----------



## Tom Robertson

RAD said:


> I know that 101 is currently used for backhaul from D9S on their KA band. I mentioned it since the DBSTalk site chart says it's DBS transponder licenses so that's what I mentioned it, just assumed that they were correct.


As near as I can tell reading FCC, is that the license is the same either way. And, as it turns out, Ka "transponders" are not the same as Ku or C. DIRECTV is allowed to use only 2 or 4 very wideband transponders to utilize the whole of the Ka-hi and Ka-lo bandwidth for backhauling right now. (Same with S1 and S2 and their use of the Ka-lo frequencies today.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## uncrules

mhayes70 said:


> Directv12 is a ground spare.


I know Directv12 is suppose to be a ground spare but Directv11's comment indicated to me that it will be used and not just a spare.


----------



## ScoBuck

I would think that although it was built as a spare - there is no way in hell that they won't use it sooner or later - after all what did it cost a few HUNDRED MILLION dollars?


----------



## PoitNarf

ScoBuck said:


> I would think that although it was built as a spare - there is no way in hell that they won't use it sooner or later - after all what did it cost a few HUNDRED MILLION dollars?


Think of it as an insurance policy. Whether it's on the ground or in orbit, a spare as absolutely necessary for D*. Sure it may cost a huge amount, but losing millions of subscribers if your sat dies would probably be far more costly to them.


----------



## Tom Robertson

PoitNarf said:


> Think of it as an insurance policy. Whether it's on the ground or in orbit, a spare as absolutely necessary for D*. Sure it may cost a huge amount, but losing millions of subscribers if your sat dies would probably be far more costly to them.


Indeed, DIRECTV does not insure its satellites in space. The savings have resulted in enough monies to easily fund a couple satellites over the years. They have reached the point where they have redundancy in space for nearly everything.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## hdtvfan0001

uncrules said:


> I know Directv12 is suppose to be a ground spare but Directv11's comment indicated to me that it will be used and not just a spare.


They could always order another spare (D13) and schedule the use of D12 some time in the future if they wanted.


----------



## LameLefty

hdtvfan0001 said:


> They could always order another spare (D13) and schedule the use of D12 some time in the future if they wanted.


Tom has already state that D13 is on-order and has other planned uses. On the other hand, satellites aren't cheap - I'm guessing D12 will eventually be launched and parked as an on-orbit spare in several years (perhaps halfway through D10's life cycle) just in case.


----------



## JLucPicard

LameLefty said:


> (perhaps halfway through D10's life cycle) just in case.


Shhh. You don't want to say that too loud - DirecTV10 might be lurking.


----------



## DIRECTV-11

JLucPicard said:


> Shhh. You don't want to say that too loud - DirecTV10 might be lurking.


Or maybe his BROTHER is. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## DIRECTV-11

uncrules said:


> I know Directv12 is suppose to be a ground spare but Directv11's comment indicated to me that it will be used and not just a spare.


Well - I truly believe he isn't being built to be a statue in front of a space museum.

But for a short while he has the enviable role of watching our backs from Earth.

:icon_cool


----------



## Tom Robertson

Another launch calendar updated to TBA in June: http://www.orbireport.com/Logs/Log07/Schedule.html

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## dgsiiinc

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet... I looked, but I'm kind of sleepy! On the Ilslaunch.com page for the Anik satellite, the link to the Anik blog says it will be available until May 1. It looks like some Directv 10 launch blogging is right on the horizon!


----------



## VeniceDre

dgsiiinc said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet... I looked, but I'm kind of sleepy! On the Ilslaunch.com page for the Anik satellite, the link to the Anik blog says it will be available until May 1. It looks like some Directv 10 launch blogging is right on the horizon!


Yes, we're all expecting the DirecTV blog to begin in Early May... They usually have a 5-6 week blog going before launch so we should see DirecTV 10 to go up sometime early to Mid-June as long as all goes well.

The poster DirecTV10, who seems to be involved in the project, has indicated that DirecTV 10 is currently finishing up testing at Boeing in El Segundo.

With this info DirecTV 10 should be getting crated and aired to Kazakstan shortly.

And remember, this is 'if' all goes well.


----------



## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> I would think that although it was built as a spare - there is no way in hell that they won't use it sooner or later - after all what did it cost a few HUNDRED MILLION dollars?


At this time, DirecTV 12 could only be used at 99 or 103. It could not replace any of the satellites in other slots.


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> But D12 could be launched at some point for an in-space spare or for use at 101°. If used at 101°, we'll have to see some form of change to the dish and/or the switches. The frequency stack plans do not allow for another 1ghz of bandwidth.


I don't think it is possible to stack two different frequencies in the same feed horn.


----------



## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> At this time, DirecTV 12 could only be used at 99 or 103. It could not replace any of the satellites in other slots.


It is NOT going up at THIS TIME. At THIS TIME it is ONLY a backup for 99 or 103.


----------



## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> It is NOT going up at THIS TIME. At THIS TIME it is ONLY a backup for 99 or 103.


I see that you grasped what I said. I'm not sure it need to be reworded.


----------



## dmurphy

Tom Robertson said:


> Indeed, DIRECTV does not insure its satellites in space. The savings have resulted in enough monies to easily fund a couple satellites over the years. They have reached the point where they have redundancy in space for nearly everything.


Well, that's a gamble, but it worked. Think about what a HEAP of trouble XM would have been in, had they not insured "Rock" and "Roll" (background: both of the XM sats were defective cutting effective life to just a few years.)


----------



## Tom Robertson

dmurphy said:


> Well, that's a gamble, but it worked. Think about what a HEAP of trouble XM would have been in, had they not insured "Rock" and "Roll" (background: both of the XM sats were defective cutting effective life to just a few years.)


Ah, that is covered by the great warranty plan D* built into the contracts. Boeing is taking extra good care of our friends 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> Ah, that is covered by the great warranty plan D* built into the contracts. Boeing is taking extra good care of our friends


XM was able to get 80% compensation when their original Boeing 702 satellites began failing (solar concentrators). It seems that the Boeing 702 may have been the genesis for ground spares as XM is having one built (XM-5) too.


----------



## Tom Robertson

On behalf of DIRECTV10 and DIRECTV11, I'd like to request a moment of silence. Their much older brother, DIRECTV2 has been granted by the FCC, a glorious send off out of the geosynchronous arc (currently at 91°) sometime in May. D2 will be lifted from its present altitude of 35,786km to 36,086km and therefore be out of the way for future satellites.

Thank you for your reverence at this time. 

Long live D10 and D11!
Tom


----------



## jlancaster

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few...(some James Horner music dramatically playing)
Of all the souls I've encountered in my travels, his, D2, was the most... Human.


----------



## uncrules

jlancaster said:


> The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few...(some James Horner music dramatically playing)
> Of all the souls I've encountered in my travels, his, D2, was the most... Human.


Nice! :lol:


----------



## PoitNarf

Tom Robertson said:


> DIRECTV2 has been granted by the FCC, a glorious send off out of the geosynchronous arc (currently at 91°) sometime in May. D2 will be lifted from its present altitude of 35,786km to 36,086km and therefore be out of the way for future satellites.


What programming did D2 carry?


----------



## JLucPicard

PoitNarf said:


> What programming did D2 carry?


[Rubbing hands together vigorously...
Please let it be the Shopping Channels! Please!!!
/Rubbing hands together vigorously...

Does that mean it either was no longer carrying programming or that the programming had been migrated to other sats?


----------



## harsh

PoitNarf said:


> What programming did D2 carry?


DirecTV 2 has been parked (tombstoned) at 90.5 since February 2006 or earlier according to Lyngsat.


----------



## Tom Robertson

At nominal 91°, or 90.5° to be more precise, it was in use by Telesat Canada for their BSS operations. DIRECTV 1 will now take its place at 91°.

Many of the older DIRECTV satellites have been or are in use by Telesat Canada . At the same time, DIRECT is using its own satellite at 72.5° that it leased/sold to Telesat for locals in the US. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## dmurphy

harsh said:


> XM was able to get 80% compensation when their original Boeing 702 satellites began failing (solar concentrators). It seems that the Boeing 702 may have been the genesis for ground spares as XM is having one built (XM-5) too.


Can't say I blame them. I get paid to design mission-critical server infrastructure here on the ground, and having spares around is super-duper important. One of the things we've done is to convince the major hardware vendors to keep spare parts on-site in our building -- basically making us a mini parts depot. Guess the sat guys are thinking the same thing, just on a different scale!


----------



## harsh

dmurphy said:


> I get paid to design mission-critical server infrastructure here on the ground, and having spares around is super-duper important.


Conditions aren't very much the same out in the Clark Belt. The temperature conditions are pretty stable and the line power is all in-house. Most servers couldn't be happier if they were twins in conditions like that.


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> Conditions aren't very much the same out in the Clark Belt. The temperature conditions are pretty stable and the line power is all in-house. Most servers couldn't be happier if they were twins in conditions like that.


Temperature of a vacuum that high is a null concept. And spacecraft temperatures are NOT constant at all, thanks to the 24-hour orbital period and equatorial inclination. That, and the occasional solar flare or random cometary micrometeoroid fragment, make GSO a somewhat less hospitable environment than you indicate. An orbital spare is a very good thing.

(Did I ever mention I used to design spacecraft environmental control systems for a living?)


----------



## Tom Robertson

LameLefty said:


> Temperature of a vacuum that high is a null concept. And spacecraft temperatures are NOT constant at all, thanks to the 24-hour orbital period and equatorial inclination. That, and the occasional solar flare or random cometary micrometeoroid fragment, make GSO a somewhat less hospitable environment than you indicate. An orbital spare is a very good thing.
> 
> (Did I ever mention I used to design spacecraft environmental control systems for a living?)


And there is the subliming of materials over time. Didn't that cause the whisker effect prematurely ending the lives of several satellites?

Thanks, Lamelefty,
Tom


----------



## veryoldschool

Tom Robertson said:


> And there is the subliming of materials over time. Didn't that cause the whisker effect prematurely ending the lives of several satellites?
> 
> Thanks, Lamelefty,
> Tom


Tin whiskers [tin = bad..gold = good].
This was "known" forty years ago, but "lead = bad", so whiskers came back without it.


----------



## PoitNarf

You guys are starting to go over my head with all of this sat tech talk (not to say that's not too difficult to do :lol: )

June is getting awfully close. I imagine we'll learn of the actual launch date in the next week or so maybe?


----------



## Tom Robertson

PoitNarf said:


> You guys are starting to go over my head with all of this sat tech talk (not to say that's not too difficult to do :lol: )
> 
> June is getting awfully close. I imagine we'll learn of the actual launch date in the next week or so maybe?


I don't if we'll learn a launch date this week, but I'm expecting news soon... (Good, of course--the glass is ALWAYS full, just sometimes there is some air in there too...)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ScoBuck

I don't recall seeing a link to this page - it is the official website of the KHRUNICHEV STATE Research and Production Space Center - the people that manufacture the Proton Launch Vehicle - it also lists the next launch as June for DIRECTV 10.

http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/index.asp


----------



## Tom Robertson

Good find, ScoBuck.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## harsh

anik's list was updated today. One of the end of May Dnepr launches has been given a date of May 30 and the other slid to June. The Dnepr rockets launch from a completely different setup than do the Proton-M rockets.

DirecTV 10 is still just June.

A very interesting read is the ILS Proton Mission Planner's Guide. It gives very detailed information on the facilities along with typical timeline.


----------



## Mark20

harsh said:


> anik's
> A very interesting read is the ILS Proton Mission Planner's Guide. It gives very detailed information on the facilities along with typical timeline.


Cool info. Thanks!


----------



## purtman

ScoBuck said:


> I don't recall seeing a link to this page - it is the official website of the KHRUNICHEV STATE Research and Production Space Center - the people that manufacture the Proton Launch Vehicle - it also lists the next launch as June for DIRECTV 10.
> 
> http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/index.asp


Amazing. The "NEXT" launch. Hopefully, it will be up soon.


----------



## harsh

anik's list was updated again today. Most notable is that Sirius 4 has gone to TBD status which opens the window a lot wider for a launch anywhere from June to early August.

If I had to guess, I'd be betting on Boeing be significantly behind schedule as they are building both DirecTV 10 and Sirius 4.


----------



## PoitNarf

harsh said:


> anik's list was updated again today. Most notable is that Sirius 4 has gone to TBD status which opens the window a lot wider for a launch anywhere from June to early August.


I hope it stays sometime in June like we've been anticipating.


----------



## tedrocole

This is great news that is very welcome here in my home. I hope that we see some of the talked about HD National Channels like National Geographic HD and NFL Network HD.

And just for reference sake, does anyone out there know approximately how long it takes for the satellite to go live after launch?


----------



## veryoldschool

tedrocole said:


> This is great news that is very welcome here in my home. I hope that we see some of the talked about HD National Channels like National Geographic HD and NFL Network HD.
> 
> And just for reference sake, does anyone out there know approximately how long it takes for the satellite to go live after launch?


back 100 posts or so...30-60 days if all goes well


----------



## Tom Robertson

Lyngsat.com finally updated D10 to show June. (Actually, its been there before and is now again.) D11 is also still showing June at Lyngsat, but they do have the correct launch vehicles now.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## EaglePC

As things in the past,don't count me out I say mid Sept 2007
(that all folks)


----------



## VeniceDre

ILS has posted info saying that their last launch, the ANIK F3, went into service this past tuesday.

http://www.ilslaunch.com/stories/anikf3/inservice/

That's just 22 days from launch to activation.

I know they are different sats but hopefully DirecTV 10 will get up and running quickly after it's launched.


----------



## PoitNarf

VeniceDre said:


> ILS has posted info saying that their last launch, the ANIK F3, went into service this past tuesday.
> 
> http://www.ilslaunch.com/stories/anikf3/inservice/
> 
> That's just 22 days from launch to activation.
> 
> I know they are different sats but hopefully DirecTV 10 will get up and running quickly after it's launched.


Wishful thinking. I hope you're right on that assumption. I'm guessing D10 will have a faster turnaround time than the Spaceways that launched last year since D10 won't have several spotbeams to aim correctly.


----------



## Tom Robertson

The fastest a Ka enabled DIRECTV satellite was turned over was about 30days, in the case of D8. That may have been rushed to meet the FCC milestone or they would lose their license for that slot. And D8 is a Loral/Space satellite instead of Boeing.

My best guess is about 6-10 weeks given the following:
Fairly standard satellite technologies used (as opposed to the cutting edge of the Spaceways)
In slot testing (I beleive D10 and D11 can be tested in their orbital slots without a re-location move)
Football!  (No, i don't really expect much on D10 this NFL season.)

But it will be what it will be and its coming soon!

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## harsh

PoitNarf said:


> I'm guessing D10 will have a faster turnaround time than the Spaceways that launched last year since D10 won't have several spotbeams to aim correctly.


D10 has twice as much spot bandwidth as the Spaceways and they are mechanically pointed as opposed to being electronically pointed. Somewhere on the D1x satellites they will be training a horn on AK and HI.

Other than using the same frequency bands, they really don't have much in common from a wave propagation standpoint.


----------



## PoitNarf

harsh said:


> D10 has twice as much spot bandwidth as the Spaceways and they are mechanically pointed as opposed to being electronically pointed. Somewhere on the D1x satellites they will be training a horn on AK and HI.
> 
> Other than using the same frequency bands, they really don't have much in common from a wave propagation standpoint.


I stand corrected. Thanks for the info harsh


----------



## Tom Robertson

harsh said:


> D10 has twice as much spot bandwidth as the Spaceways and they are mechanically pointed as opposed to being electronically pointed. Somewhere on the D1x satellites they will be training a horn on AK and HI.
> 
> Other than using the same frequency bands, they really don't have much in common from a wave propagation standpoint.


So by that logic(?) D9s should have taken 2 years to configure instead of 2 months? 

Tom


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> So by that logic(?) D9s should have taken 2 years to configure instead of 2 months?


No. By that logic, you can't make many reasonable inferences from prior satellites.

Comparisons between D9S and D1x might be more reasonable, but the additional spots and CONUS implementation of the D1x series have to be added in.


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.

BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day. 

:joy: :joy:


----------



## RAD

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


Ah, come on, burn a bit more fuel and get to station quicker, Labor Day is a long way away.


----------



## Cobra

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


you mean memorial day right


----------



## jediphish

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


Could you ask your owners to feed you a higher bitrate diet than what some of your bretheren have been receiving?


----------



## PoitNarf

RAD said:


> Ah, come on, burn a bit more fuel and get to station quicker, Labor Day is a long way away.


Only 122 days from now :lol:


----------



## mhayes70

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


Wow!! That is a very long way off. I hope he means Memorial Day. But, I doubt it. That is disappointing if we have to wait until Labor day. :nono2:


----------



## PoitNarf

mhayes70 said:


> Wow!! That is a very long way off. I hope he means Memorial Day. But, I doubt it. That is disappointing if we have to wait until Labor day. :nono2:


Being that Memorial Day is the 28th of this month and the launch is scheduled for next month, I'm pretty sure he meant Labor Day.


----------



## monetnj

Yes, and by "on" I expect he means actually operating and beaming us HD as opposed to the launch and getting checked out.



PoitNarf said:


> Being that Memorial Day is the 28th of this month and the launch is scheduled for next month, I'm pretty sure he meant Labor Day.


----------



## morgantown

Not like I trust what I hear...

But I have heard "September" more times than I can count. Anything can go wrong between here and there though. So Labor Day does not seem unreasonable in the least.

I'd be stunned if any new HD comes off of the new sat before then.


----------



## Drew2k

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


Well that perfectly matches what my installer told me: New HD Channels on September 5th (Per Installer!)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81715

Thanks for the confirmation!


----------



## bonscott87

Early September makes good sense. That's 2 to 2.5 months of testing and getting things setup. And if they have to use the new sat to offer all the new HD games from CBS then they better hope all goes well.


----------



## Sixto

June 20th.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&mid=134377#M134377


----------



## Tom Robertson

Great find, Sixto!

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## PoitNarf

Sixto said:


> June 20th.
> 
> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&mid=134377#M134377


w0000t!


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Sixto said:


> June 20th.
> 
> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&mid=134377#M134377


Great find... and I can also confirm, that is in fact the scheduled launch date of DirecTV 10.


----------



## PoitNarf

Earl Bonovich said:


> Great find... and I can also confirm, that is in fact the scheduled launch date of DirecTV 10.


Excellent! T-minus 46 days and counting


----------



## Michael D'Angelo

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope they have the launch on HDNET.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to configure and activate this new sat, since much of the content will be either totally new HD channels or HD channel upconverts....in either case, it may take a bit longer to "flip the switch".

With CNN going HD in Sept, and a few others about the same time, my guess is they want it live before Labor Day weekend - maybe early to mid August (speculation only).


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It will be interesting to see how long it takes to configure and activate this new sat, since much of the content will be either totally new HD channels or HD channel upconverts....in either case, it may take a bit longer to "flip the switch".


The content should have little to do with how long it takes to configure the satellite. The biggest part of the configuration will likely being the surveying of signals on the ground to make sure that the spotbeams fully cover the areas they are intended to cover.


----------



## PoitNarf

harsh said:


> The biggest part of the configuration will likely being the surveying of signals on the ground to make sure that the spotbeams fully cover the areas they are intended to cover.


<sarcasm> Running around the country checking signal strengths? Sounds like a fun job to me! </sarcasm> :lol:


----------



## donyoop

DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks :wave: , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.
> 
> :joy: :joy:


Sorry DirecTV10, you've been scooped by Sixto. Now that the launch date has been set, I need to get busy and dig my hole for the 2" O.D. post.

Don


----------



## Newshawk

PoitNarf said:


> <sarcasm> Running around the country checking signal strengths? Sounds like a fun job to me! </sarcasm> :lol:


I know some engineering types that would salivate at a project like that!


----------



## veryoldschool

Newshawk said:


> I know some engineering types that would salivate at a project like that!


An expense account, a RV, and a SAT dish....I'm ready


----------



## Smthkd

VeniceDre said:


> Yes, we're all expecting the DirecTV blog to begin in Early May... They usually have a 5-6 week blog going before launch so we should see DirecTV 10 to go up sometime early to Mid-June as long as all goes well.
> 
> The poster DirecTV10, who seems to be involved in the project, has indicated that DirecTV 10 is currently finishing up testing at Boeing in El Segundo.
> 
> With this info DirecTV 10 should be getting crated and aired to Kazakstan shortly.
> 
> And remember, this is 'if' all goes well.


Ummm, Guys, aren't we "Blogging" right now?


----------



## bobnielsen

veryoldschool said:


> An expense account, a RV, and a SAT dish....I'm ready


If the Sat2Go only did Ka.....


----------



## lwilli201

PoitNarf said:


> <sarcasm> Running around the country checking signal strengths? Sounds like a fun job to me! </sarcasm> :lol:


I can see the commercial already:

"I can you see you now" :lol:


----------



## Supervolcano

veryoldschool said:


> An expense account, a RV, and a SAT dish....I'm ready


I'll drive!!


----------



## syphix

Can D* deliver any additional HD nationals without the second HD satellite that was scheduled to launch? Meaning, do we have to wait for BOTH to go up before seeing additional MPEG HD nationals?? Or can they still deliver SOME HD nationals with just DirecTV 10??


----------



## Michael D'Angelo

syphix said:


> Can D* deliver any additional HD nationals without the second HD satellite that was scheduled to launch? Meaning, do we have to wait for BOTH to go up before seeing additional MPEG HD nationals?? Or can they still deliver SOME HD nationals with just DirecTV 10??


Yes they will launch new HD channels with only Directv10.


----------



## monetnj

syphix said:


> Can D* deliver any additional HD nationals without the second HD satellite that was scheduled to launch? Meaning, do we have to wait for BOTH to go up before seeing additional MPEG HD nationals?? Or can they still deliver SOME HD nationals with just DirecTV 10??


D* is on the record as saying that the delay of Directv11 won't delay the delivery of the promised 70 to 100 HD channels by the end of the year. I hope people aren't expecting those 70 channels instantly. I believe the delivery of these channels will be phased in slowly anyway. At launch, I think we are only likely to get the currently available HD channels we are not now receiving, plus a few others that have been announced and the expanded NFL Sunday Ticket to account for the new CBS games. Obviously, the rest won't launch until they are put on the air by the program provider. D* hasn't been clear about the roll-out, although for their sake I hope they clarify this soon after Directv10 launches. Otherwise, they will be faced with some unhappy customers.


----------



## veryoldschool

lwilli201 said:


> I can see the commercial already:
> 
> "I can you see you now" :lol:


!rolling


----------



## HDTVsportsfan

June 20th. Outstanding.

WOOOOHOOOOO


----------



## raoul5788

harsh said:


> The content should have little to do with how long it takes to configure the satellite. The biggest part of the configuration will likely being the surveying of signals on the ground to make sure that the spotbeams fully cover the areas they are intended to cover.


Who said anything about spotbeams? I thought D10 was going to carry CONUS.


----------



## PoitNarf

raoul5788 said:


> Who said anything about spotbeams? I thought D10 was going to carry CONUS.


It's going to have both I believe.


----------



## Supervolcano

raoul5788 said:


> Who said anything about spotbeams? I thought D10 was going to carry CONUS.


Spaceway 1 & 2 can carry a combined 500 locals.

Total for Spaceway 1 & 2 plus DirecTV 10 & 11 is expected to be 1500 locals and 150 nationals.

Do the math.


----------



## bobnielsen

It would be interesting to know how configurable it is (can more transponders be dedicated to CONUS beams initially and switched to spot beams after D11 is active?) That might be a moot point, depending on the Sea Launch scheduling.


----------



## ScoBuck

And yet another updated launch calendar:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/2007.html


----------



## JLucPicard

Did I see right on both of those launch schedules that also on June 20 a satellite is being launched from a submarine? Interesting.

My first thought also when confirming spot beam coverage was mentioned was an ad with a guy walking around with a sat receiver hearing someone asking, "Can you see me now?". 

Having an actual date mentions just seems to bring it that much closer to home. Bon voyage, Directv10!


----------



## Tom Robertson

Supervolcano said:


> Spaceway 1 & 2 can carry a combined 500 locals.
> 
> Total for Spaceway 1 & 2 plus DirecTV 10 & 11 is expected to be 1500 locals and 150 nationals.
> 
> Do the math.


Actually, D10 and D11, EACH can carry about 1000locals and the 150 nationals. When both are up, we'll see really cool services...  (Some of which we know and are just waiting for a CE and then bandwidth for the HD version.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Tom Robertson

JLucPicard said:


> Did I see right on both of those launch schedules that also on June 20 a satellite is being launched from a submarine? Interesting.
> 
> My first thought also when confirming spot beam coverage was mentioned was an ad with a guy walking around with a sat receiver hearing someone asking, "Can you see me now?".
> 
> Having an actual date mentions just seems to bring it that much closer to home. Bon voyage, Directv10!


Depending on who's calendar you saw, you SAW correctly--but the information has been wrong all along. (I've never seen such confusion on launch calendars as I have with D10 and D11.)

Currently the best calendars put D10 at June 20 via Proton in Baiknor and D11 in December on Sea Launch (a converted floating oil rig, not a submarine.) 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## aphoward

Tom Robertson said:


> Depending on who's calendar you saw, you SAW correctly--but the information has been wrong all along. (I've never seen such confusion on launch calendars as I have with D10 and D11.)
> 
> Currently the best calendars put D10 at June 20 via Proton in Baiknor and D11 in December on Sea Launch (a converted floating oil rig, not a submarine.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Actually if you look at the schedule, there IS a submarine launch on June 20 (it's not D* tho, but the OP never mentioned that it was D11).


----------



## RAD

Tom Robertson said:


> Actually, D10 and D11, EACH can carry about 1000locals and the 150 nationals. When both are up, we'll see really cool services...  (Some of which we know and are just waiting for a CE and then bandwidth for the HD version.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom, I think that the 150 number on D10/D11 is a bit high. The press release on the D10/D11 national HD capacity says once they're operational D* will have the capacity for 150 national HD channels, not an additional 150 channels, I think we need to subtract the 20 or so that they do now. Maybe I'm just being picky about the wording but that's my take on it.


----------



## JLucPicard

aphoward said:


> Actually if you look at the schedule, there IS a submarine launch on June 20 (it's not D* tho, but the OP never mentioned that it was D11).


Correct. The submarine launch I saw on June 20th had nothing at all to do with D*.


----------



## mitchelljd

lets hope this rocket doesnt also blow up!!!


----------



## machavez00

RAD said:


> Tom, I think that the 150 number on D10/D11 is a bit high. The press release on the D10/D11 national HD capacity says once they're operational D* will have the capacity for 150 national HD channels, not an additional 150 channels, I think we need to subtract the 20 or so that they do now. Maybe I'm just being picky about the wording but that's my take on it.


Not sure but I have heard the plan is to move all hd channels to the new birds to free up bandwith for the sd channels. The only HD IRD not mpeg4 capable is the HR10, and they are slowly getting replaced.


----------



## RAD

machavez00 said:


> Not sure but I have heard the plan is to move all hd channels to the new birds to free up bandwith for the sd channels. The only HD IRD not mpeg4 capable is the HR10, and they are slowly getting replaced.


The rumor is that the MPEG2 -> MPEG4 conversion will happen at some future date but not in time to make the original 2007 150 HD channel capacity. As for the HD IRD issue, there are MANY other MPEG2 only HD STB's out there, such as the Sony HD300, Hughes E86, RCA DTC 100 are a few that come to my mind.


----------



## PoitNarf

mitchelljd said:


> lets hope this rocket doesnt also blow up!!!


Comments such as this should be forbidden in this thread. Please don't jinx it!


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> Currently the best calendars put D10 at June 20 via Proton in Baiknor and D11 in December on Sea Launch (a converted floating oil rig, not a submarine.)


What are the best calendars?


----------



## uncrules

RAD said:


> As for the HD IRD issue, there are MANY other MPEG2 only HD STB's out there, such as the Sony HD300, Hughes E86, RCA DTC 100 are a few that come to my mind.


You can add Samsung 160s and 360s. Only earlier this year did I do away with my last Samsung 160.


----------



## harsh

Tom Robertson said:


> Actually, D10 and D11, EACH can carry about 1000locals and the 150 nationals.


This is in conflict with DirecTV's application which states that the combined satellites will offer 1000 LIL and 150 national channels.


DirecTV 10 LOA said:


> Combined with its twin, DIRECTV 11 operating at 99° W.L.,2 this satellite will give DIRECTV the ability to retransmit the signals of over 1000 local broadcast stations in HD format - serving over 90% of U.S. households - as well as over 150 channels of national HD programming.


----------



## moonman

Also being evaluated is the launch of the DirectTV 11 satellite, which is also manifested with Sea Launch. DirectTV are monitoring Sea Launch's efforts in returning to flight, in the hope they won't see the launch of the Boeing 702 Model Satellite delayed by too large a degree, claiming it is too early to predict. 

'With the DirecTV 10 satellite scheduled to launch in June aboard a Proton rocket at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, we're moving forward with our plans to roll out more HD (High Definition) channels this year,' a DirecTV statement noted. 

'It's too early to predict how long the Sea Launch rocket failure will delay the D11 launch. However, we have a flexible, robust fleet of satellites and a variety of options available to us to continue our national and local HD rollout.'


----------



## machavez00

RAD said:


> The rumor is that the MPEG2 -> MPEG4 conversion will happen at some future date but not in time to make the original 2007 150 HD channel capacity. As for the HD IRD issue, there are MANY other MPEG2 only HD STB's out there, such as the Sony HD300, Hughes E86, RCA DTC 100 are a few that come to my mind.





uncrules said:


> You can add Samsung 160s and 360s. Only earlier this year did I do away with my last Samsung 160.


I stand corrected


----------



## Smthkd

harsh said:


> This is in conflict with DirecTV's application which states that the combined satellites will offer 1000 LIL and 150 national channels.


No conflict, I think Tom is right. Both sat has enormous capacity for such purpose, however, D* is also focusing on VOD and other Interactive features that requires X amount of bandwidth. If you take those out of the equation you can see clearly that D10 and D11 can hold about 150HD channels each and LILHD, I however would say LILHD would be around 750 each instead of 1000 though.


----------



## DIRECTV-11

Tom IS correct.

My brother thanks you for all of the good wishes - he is resting comfortably in Russia - work has already begun on mating to launch vehicle. I am bursting with pride. 

And don't worry, my own time is also coming quickly!

Congrats to Anik-3 for successful light-up this week!

The future is bright for sure.


----------



## Tom Robertson

harsh said:


> This is in conflict with DirecTV's application which states that the combined satellites will offer 1000 LIL and 150 national channels.


They were conservative with the numbers. Gives them redundancy when both are up there and ability to do other cool things with the bandwidth without announcing plans in advance (you should appreciate the not overselling).

Lastly, recall that the FCC applications are not precise business plans for the usage. Yes they must included many technical details that must be accurate, but they do not have to list number of channels used with any accuracy. Just enough information to justify the bandwidth request.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Tom Robertson

Smthkd said:


> No conflict, I think Tom is right. Both sat has enormous capacity for such purpose, however, D* is also focusing on VOD and other Interactive features that requires X amount of bandwidth. If you take those out of the equation you can see clearly that D10 and D11 can hold about 150HD channels each and LILHD, I however would say LILHD would be around 750 each instead of 1000 though.


Some info from my D10 posting: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=869688&postcount=5
49 Spotbeam transponders
14 National Beams
36mhz usable in each transponder

and generally known: each broadcast channel has about 5mhz usable of the 6mhz channel separation.

So each transponder could carry roughly 7 HD channels if kept in their original MPEG2 format.

With MPEG4 efficiencies of about 40%, each transponder should be capable of 11 channels (or 12ish with a tiny bit of extra compression.) So, 14*11=154 national channels on each D1x bird.

For locals 49*11=539 locals.

So, D10 and D11 can EACH handle the necessary nationals. It will take the combined D10 and D11 with S1 and S2 to handle the 1500 locals. (and take at least a year for DIRECTV to get all the locals configured.)

So I was half right. (Or I messed up my math again.  )

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RAD

Tom, out of that 36mhz bandwidth, does that take into account FEC? If not then that number can shrink a good amount, especially since I would think for Ka band they'd have more error correction in the stream since Ka is harder to receive.


----------



## veryoldschool

Tom Robertson said:


> Some info from my D10 posting: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=869688&postcount=5
> 49 Spotbeam transponders
> 14 National Beams
> 36mhz usable in each transponder
> 
> and generally known: each broadcast channel has about 5mhz usable of the 6mhz channel separation.
> 
> So each transponder could carry roughly 7 HD channels if kept in their original MPEG2 format.
> 
> With MPEG4 efficiencies of about 40%, each transponder should be capable of 11 channels (or 12ish with a tiny bit of extra compression.) So, 14*11=154 national channels on each D1x bird.
> 
> For locals 49*11=539 locals.
> 
> So, D10 and D11 can EACH handle the necessary nationals. It will take the combined D10 and D11 with S1 and S2 to handle the 1500 locals. (and take at least a year for DIRECTV to get all the locals configured.)
> 
> So I was half right. (Or I messed up my math again.  )
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


But then with MPEG-2 there is the old "HDlite" that compresses the signal more & allows for more channels than OTA [5 MHz or six with spacing]. And aren't all new HD channels going to be MPEG-4? Hummm


----------



## Tom Robertson

RAD said:


> Tom, out of that 36mhz bandwidth, does that take into account FEC? If not then that number can shrink a good amount, especially since I would think for Ka band they'd have more error correction in the stream since Ka is harder to receive.


My math _is_ very sloppy. I've assumed that the 36mhz encodes roughly the same as the 5mhz of a broadcast signal. In making this horrible assumption, I'm sorta thinking that the in-efficiencies of satellite FEC are awash with the higher encoding they _might_ be using with more recent PSK techniques.



veryoldschool said:


> But then with MPEG-2 there is the old "HDlite" that compresses the signal more & allows for more channels than OTA [5 MHz or six with spacing]. And aren't all new HD channels going to be MPEG-4? Hummm


Yes, all new HD will be MPEG4. I was comparing Broadcast MPEG2 (OTA) with MPEG4 for efficiencies. I'm hoping MPEG4 will not be HD-lite, but it if is, then they might be able to get even more channels.

And we know they can compress the signals as much as needed to get more channels. But I just wanted to see what could be done without resorting to that.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## veryoldschool

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, all new HD will be MPEG4. I was comparing Broadcast MPEG2 (OTA) with MPEG4 for efficiencies. I'm hoping MPEG4 will not be HD-lite, but it if is, then they might be able to get even more channels.
> 
> And we know they can compress the signals as much as needed to get more channels. But I just wanted to see what could be done without resorting to that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I think anybody that knows "this stuff" hopes the MPEG-4 will give D* what they need without over-compressing the signal since this is where HD & D* could excel in their service, over the competition.


----------



## PoitNarf

This news keeps getting better and better


----------



## mhayes70

Glad to hear D10 is in Russia.


----------



## VeniceDre

mhayes70 said:


> Glad to hear D10 is in Russia.


Even better if it was in Kazakhstan.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Its taking in the sites along the way.  You know it has a very long life and trip ahead. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## PoitNarf

I'm curious, how close to the orbital slot does the launch vehicle have to get the satellite? I'd imagine they'd want to get it as close as possible so they don't have to waste too much of the onboard fuel to maneuver it into position.


----------



## veryoldschool

PoitNarf said:


> I'm curious, how close to the orbital slot does the launch vehicle have to get the satellite? I'd imagine they'd want to get it as close as possible so they don't have to waste too much of the onboard fuel to maneuver it into position.


Hopefully not as close as they did to MIR.


----------



## LameLefty

PoitNarf said:


> I'm curious, how close to the orbital slot does the launch vehicle have to get the satellite? I'd imagine they'd want to get it as close as possible so they don't have to waste too much of the onboard fuel to maneuver it into position.


There's a couple ways to do it, but orbital mechanics basically requires at least two propulsive burns to achieve a circular orbit (I'm simplifying greatly and yes, long-duration, low-thrust burns can do it one one VERY long step). But basically, you need the first burn (e.g., the launch itself) to put the vehicle into a GTO - geosynchronous transfer orbit. That will have an apogee (high point) at or very, very near the final orbital altitude of the satellite), but a perigee (low point) of usually under 100 miles (it may be lower or may be higher, depending on many factors). The second burn is needed to increase the orbital velocity and raise the perigee, and therefore circularized the orbit at the final altitude. Then all you have to do is tweak the orbit slightly higher or lower (by increasing or decreasing its velocity) to "walk" the satellite into the proper orbital slot.

From a commsat maker's perspective, the best way to do this all is to have an upper stage transfer vehicle that's actually part of the launch vehicle, so their satellite doesn't need to do it's own circularization. On the other hand, the launch vehicle makers would love to simply dump the cargo into that initial transfer orbit and leave all the tweaking to the customers and their payloads. That way the can advertise maximum launch mass capacity and leave the details to others.

I frankly don't know how these two satellite launches are being handled, nor too many specifics about the services offered by ILS or SeaLaunch in terms of who has to supply that upper-stage kick to finalize the orbits.


----------



## bobnielsen

Hostorical note: Back in the early days of satellites there was another consideration. Neither Syncom II, the first synchronous satellite launched in 1963 from Cape Canaveral, nor its launch vehicle had enough propulsion to place it in a true equatorial orbit. As a result it was in a figure-8 orbit travelling between ~+/30 degrees latitude. The receiving dishes had to be able to track its position to account for this. This satellite wasn't designed for television, but NASA ran some experiments using highly compressed signals. I recall seeing a tape of the Tonight Show which was (barely) watchable. The results were successful enough that Syncom III was modified to have additional bandwidth for additional television experiments. This satellite was used to carry some footage from the 1964 Tokyo Olympics, but none of this was shown live (the opening ceremonies were shown tape-delayed, but NBC didn't want to preempt the normal programming). NBC used tapes which were flown back nightly to the US for most of the coverage, although satellite footage was used for some news broadcasts (on other networks, IIRC).


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> I frankly don't know how these two satellite launches are being handled, nor too many specifics about the services offered by ILS or SeaLaunch in terms of who has to supply that upper-stage kick to finalize the orbits.


The D1x series of Boeing 702 satellites needs to be fully lofted by the launch vehicle. That's why they couldn't just use any old platform. Boeing is redesigning the 702 so that it can do the second stage on its own.


----------



## harsh

directv11 said:


> My brother thanks you for all of the good wishes - he is resting comfortably in Russia - work has already begun on mating to launch vehicle..


So ILS isn't going to do a blog for DirecTV 10? With Anik F3, they started the blog about a week before the satellite arrived.

Boeing has been strangely silent about the "delivery" of DirecTV 10.


----------



## heavyobjects

harsh said:


> So ILS isn't going to do a blog for DirecTV 10? With Anik F3, they started the blog about a week before the satellite arrived.
> 
> Boeing has been strangely silent about the "delivery" of DirecTV 10.


SoooOOO? I can tell you are chomping at the bit to add more to this statement, don't leave us hanging. Or have I seen this episode before?


----------



## VeniceDre

harsh said:


> So ILS isn't going to do a blog for DirecTV 10? With Anik F3, they started the blog about a week before the satellite arrived.
> 
> Boeing has been strangely silent about the "delivery" of DirecTV 10.


I for one am curious about this also. I expected the blog to start last week.

Damn, I'm agreeing with Harsh, I must be off my meds.


----------



## JLucPicard

heavyobjects said:


> SoooOOO? I can tell you are chomping at the bit to add more to this statement, don't leave us hanging. Or have I seen this episode before?


LOL - just what I was thinking.


----------



## harsh

VeniceDre said:


> I for one am curious about this also. I expected the blog to start last week.


The blog should start about a week before the 30 day countdown begins. With Anik F3, the satellite arrived in Baikonur at T-30 days after eight days of blogging. For DirecTV 10, that works out to next Monday for the blog and Victoria Day for the arrival of the satellite.

Its up to you to determine what level of confidence to put in what DirecTV 11 says. I'd hate to think that it has been infected with the dreaded DirecTV marketroid virus.


----------



## uncrules

harsh said:


> Its up to you to determine what level of confidence to put in what DirecTV 11 says. I'd hate to think that it has been infected with the dreaded DirecTV marketroid virus.


Wasn't anik at nasaspaceflight.com the first source for the launch being June 20th and not Directv11?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&mid=134377#M134377


----------



## Tom Robertson

uncrules said:


> Wasn't anik at nasaspaceflight.com the first source for the launch being June 20th and not Directv11?
> 
> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&mid=134377#M134377


Yes, but DIRECTV11 was first to state that DIRECTV10 was already in Russia.

BTW, I trust DIRECTV10 and DIRECTV11 and their sources. But like many sources, there are times they cannot be the ones to "be first" with announcements or they will lose their access.

No matter what, I hope DIRECTV10 has a nice comfy journey very soon, lives a very long happy life, and we get lots of HD soon. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## DIRECTV-10

VeniceDre said:


> Even better if it was in Kazakhstan.


Greetings from inside the Baikonur Kosmodome!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## DIRECTV-10

harsh said:


> Its up to you to determine what level of confidence to put in what DirecTV 11 says. I'd hate to think that it has been infected with the dreaded DirecTV marketroid virus.


Its ok comrade - you are wrong now, and have been wrong for quite some time. In today's day and age, much more will be kept close to the vest than even 1 year ago.


----------



## VeniceDre

DirecTV10 said:


> Greetings from inside the Baikonur Kosmodome!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


:hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah:

:balloons: :balloons: :balloons: :balloons: :balloons: :balloons: :balloons:


----------



## Tom Robertson

DirecTV10 said:


> Greetings from inside the Baikonur Kosmodome!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hope you had a great flight! Were the flight attendants cute? And what were the movies? 

May your mating be successful.
Tom


----------



## DCSholtis

Tom Robertson said:


> Hope you had a great flight! Were the flight attendants cute? And what were the movies?
> 
> May your mating be successful.
> Tom


It was one of those rocket porn flicks...:lol:


----------



## kevinwmsn

might be the right stuff, Apollo13, Space Cowboys, or something like that.


----------



## mhayes70

DCSholtis said:


> It was one of those rocket porn flicks...:lol:


I bet it was in HD.


----------



## DCSholtis




----------



## Tom Robertson

harsh said:


> What are the best calendars?


Sorry for the delay in answering, while I'm on the road. Here is the list I have been checking regularly:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/#0705
http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/2007.html
http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/launch.html
http://www.satellitefinance.com/nod...ellite-Finance-Issue-100/Launch-schedule.html
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_chr/lau2007.htm#Planned
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&start=361&posts=370
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_sched.html
http://www.orbireport.com/Logs/Log07/Schedule.html

lyngsat used to be my only source, but they've fallen way behind of late. Anik at nasaspaceflight seems to be the best source of Russian launch information, jpl one of the best overall, IMHO.

Alas, no one seems to be really good at tracking all of the info. And the FAA only releases their info quarterly (or less.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## purtman

Tom Robertson said:


> Sorry for the delay in answering, while I'm on the road. Here is the list I have been checking regularly:
> http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/#0705
> http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/2007.html
> http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/launch.html
> http://www.satellitefinance.com/nod...ellite-Finance-Issue-100/Launch-schedule.html
> http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_chr/lau2007.htm#Planned
> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&start=361&posts=370
> http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_sched.html
> http://www.orbireport.com/Logs/Log07/Schedule.html
> 
> lyngsat used to be my only source, but they've fallen way behind of late. Anik at nasaspaceflight seems to be the best source of Russian launch information, jpl one of the best overall, IMHO.
> 
> Alas, no one seems to be really good at tracking all of the info. And the FAA only releases their info quarterly (or less.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom and others, I thought I saw somewhere on this site that the launch is scheduled for either June 10 or 20. Yet I don't see it listed anywhere on any other sites. Where are people getting that info from?


----------



## bobnielsen

purtman said:


> Tom and others, I thought I saw somewhere on this site that the launch is scheduled for either June 10 or 20. Yet I don't see it listed anywhere on any other sites. Where are people getting that info from?


http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1133&start=376 See the 4/5/2007 (May 4, not April 5) post by Anik.


----------



## Tom Robertson

purtman said:


> Tom and others, I thought I saw somewhere on this site that the launch is scheduled for either June 10 or 20. Yet I don't see it listed anywhere on any other sites. Where are people getting that info from?


My bad for promoting the June 10 date. Typo on that part.

Each of the launch calendars is maintained in their own way. Lyngsat relies up on people who sent them links to updated info; Anik seems to have good sources as well as searches several Russian sites for info.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## purtman

Thanks, guys! June 20 with 10 weeks should put the channels live around Labor Day, assuming all goes well! What a great birthday present!


----------



## PoitNarf

purtman said:


> June 20 with 10 weeks should put the channels live around Labor Day, assuming all goes well!


This was DirecTV10's suspicion as well.



DirecTV10 said:


> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.


----------



## Steve Robertson

PoitNarf said:


> This was DirecTV10's suspicion as well.


So close and yet so far away.


----------



## Drew2k

PoitNarf said:


> This was DirecTV10's suspicion as well.


And my installer's suspicion, way back in March!


----------



## Mark20

Wish they would get that Star Trek transporter on-line. Just beam it to its slot!  

OK, I know :icon_lame


----------



## HarleyD

Lyngsat.com is now listing the launch date as June 20, 2007 (070620). Earlier this week it was only listing June 2007 so things seem to be firming up for the 20th of next month.


----------



## harsh

HarleyD said:


> Earlier this week it was only listing June 2007 so things seem to be firming up for the 20th of next month.


Lyngsat is one of the last to the party on this one.


----------



## harsh

anik has posted a specific launch time!!!

June 20 – DirecTV 10 – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur – 01:19 UTC


----------



## Newshawk

harsh said:


> Lyngsat is one of the last to the party on this one.


I guess it's like reporting election results, harsh... do you want to be first, but posssibly wrong, or accurate and maybe last. Tough call.


----------



## mhayes70

harsh said:


> anik has posted a specific launch time!!!
> 
> June 20 - DirecTV 10 - Proton-M/Briz-M - Baikonur - 01:19 UTC


So here is a dumb question. What time is that in Central time?


----------



## Diana C

mhayes70 said:


> So here is a dumb question. What time is that in Central time?


8:19 pm on June 19th (US Central Daylight Time).

BTW: that's 6:19 AM on June 20th, local time in Baikonur (Kazakhstan Central Standard Time).


----------



## DCSholtis

http://www.dxing.com/utcgmt.htm



> UTC uses a 24-hour system of time notation. "1:00 a.m." in UTC is expressed as 0100, pronounced "zero one hundred." Fifteen minutes after 0100 is expressed as 0115; thirty-eight minutes after 0100 is 0138 (usually pronounced "zero one thirty-eight"). The time one minute after 0159 is 0200. The time one minute after 1259 is 1300 (pronounced "thirteen hundred"). This continues until 2359. One minute later is 0000 ("zero hundred"), and the start of a new UTC day.
> 
> To convert UTC to local time, you have to add or subtract hours from it. For persons west of the zero meridian to the international date line (which includes all of North America), hours are subtracted from UTC to convert to local time.


So its 8:19pm Central.


----------



## D*HR-20

Sounds like to me this was planned for a live prime time broadcast for Tues., June 19th at 9 Eastern/6 Pacific maybe even in HD.


----------



## Diana C

D*HR-20 said:


> Sounds like to me this was planned for a live prime time broadcast for Tues., June 19th at 9 Eastern/6 Pacific maybe even in HD.


Launch times are based upon "windows" - periods of time when the earth's rotation cooperates with the launch effort so that the spacecraft will reach transfer orbit most efficiently. If one of those windows happens to coincide with US prime time, it is most likely just that: a coincidence.


----------



## harsh

Newshawk said:


> I guess it's like reporting election results, harsh... do you want to be first, but posssibly wrong, or accurate and maybe last. Tough call.


If they can't keep it up-to-date, maybe they should leave it to those who can and concentrate on those aspects that they are uniquely qualified to cover.

That being said, satelliteonthenet.co.uk still hasn't got a date for DirecTV 10, so it could be worse.

DirecTV 11 will likely be much more difficult to follow without the able assistance of anik.


----------



## Jeremy W

drew2k said:


> And my installer's suspicion, way back in March!


Labor Day has been a popular speculation on this site for quite a while.


----------



## Drew2k

Jeremy W said:


> Labor Day has been a popular speculation on this site for quite a while.


Yup, and I wonder just how much of that is a result of, oh, I dunno, ... maybe this thread here >>>>> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81715


----------



## veryoldschool

drew2k said:


> Yup, and I wonder just how much of that is a result of, oh, I dunno, ... maybe this thread here >>>>> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81715


Does your installer give stock tips too?


----------



## Jeremy W

drew2k said:


> Yup, and I wonder just how much of that is a result of, oh, I dunno, ... maybe this thread here >>>>> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81715


I know about that thread, I was talking about even before that. :grin:


----------



## Drew2k

:lol: 

Well, I'll try to steal credit whenever I can!


----------



## RobertE

drew2k said:


> :lol:
> 
> Well, I'll try to steal credit whenever I can!


Your installer most likely got that info from a tech bulletin about the BBCs sent out on 2/9/07. Personally, I think we will see new channels before 9/1/07.


----------



## PoitNarf

RobertE said:


> Personally, I think we will see new channels before 9/1/07.


I call August 27th!


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Busy days now for me - getting fitted with some real cool gear for my journey. 

But it's an exicting time for me - and as I read here often for all of you also. 

Let me answer if I can in some way what is in store once I get into GTO. They cannot flex all of my muscles in one movement - it is a well-orchestrated series of events that have to take place in order for me to begin service. It starts slowly, and I need be tested after virtually every command is sent up my way. I have to open and extend my solar arrays to get and maintain power - I need to have my beams focused and tested - and so on.

It can be done in as little as 21 days I am told, but more likely will be done over 6 weeks. There is no need to rush this as an error could be critical. 

But I do promise you that once I am aloft, and upon commercial service, I will give you all that you are now expecting - and then some.

Thank goodness they didn't send me to Russia in the middle of the winter! This place is out in the sticks to begin with.

That's all for now - regards to the faithful.


----------



## PoitNarf

DirecTV10 said:


> It can be done in as little as 21 days I am told, but more likely will be done over 6 weeks. There is no need to rush this as an error could be critical.


As little as 21 days? July 12th would be fantastic, but I'm pretty sure you're right that it won't happen this quickly. If it's 6 weeks to get everything positioned and tested, that's early August. I would be EXTREMELY pleased with early August, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Godspeed DirecTV10!


----------



## cavihitts

Does this mean we will start to see some addtions as early as august?


----------



## RAD

DirecTV10, when will you have time to start updating the blog at http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/?


----------



## mhayes70

Early August will be great also! But, don't rush it and cause problems to delay your commercial service. I will be patient.


----------



## DIRECTV-10

RAD said:


> DirecTV10, when will you have time to start updating the blog at http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/?


I don't have anything to do with that information and cannot give you an honest answer.


----------



## monetnj

cavihitts said:


> Does this mean we will start to see some addtions as early as august?


Well, there is certainly a backlog of HD channels D* could add. Probably would be a good thing to work out the commercial kinks in August before Sunday Ticket launches too.


----------



## purtman

mhayes70 said:


> Early August will be great also! But, don't rush it and cause problems to delay your commercial service. I will be patient.


Early August won't provide as many channels as those supposedly becoming available in September, but it's still a nice fix. I'll gladly take it.


----------



## jdoug

I've got my fingers crossed hoping for more HD baseball games on MLB EI. That is more compelling to me then most of the new national channels.


----------



## veryoldschool

DirecTV10 said:


> Thank goodness they didn't send me to Russia in the middle of the winter! This place is out in the sticks to begin with.
> 
> That's all for now - regards to the faithful.


From what I've seen, you're so far out in...there are no sticks either...
Once you get to your new home & spread your wings, you can get cozy with your TWT heaters again.


----------



## PoitNarf

Perhaps the title of this thread should also include the launch date now?


----------



## juan ellitinez

Do we know if the satellite has been shipped to the launch site yet?? (some kind of announcement yet?)


----------



## veryoldschool

juan ellitinez said:


> Do we know if the satellite has been shipped to the launch site yet?? (some kind of announcement yet?)


see post #316


----------



## Jeremy W

juan ellitinez said:


> Do we know if the satellite has been shipped to the launch site yet?? (some kind of announcement yet?)


It's kind of rude to refer to D10 as "the satellite" when he posts in this thread! :lol:


----------



## Supervolcano

Jeremy W said:


> It's kind of rude to refer to D10 as "the satellite" when he posts in this thread! :lol:


Hey now, we don't discriminate here at DBSTalk.
Anyone and everyone is allowed to post.
Americans
Mexicans
Canadians
Asians
Africans
Europeans
Austrailians
Martians
....and even satelliteans if they can and want to.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> It's kind of rude to refer to D10 as "the satellite" when he posts in this thread! :lol:


It's a member of the family by now.


----------



## DVRaholic

My Predict "light Up" date is Monday August 13th
It will be 7 1/2 weeks after Launch.

I hope we see SOME New national HD by then


----------



## Steve Robertson

DirecTV10 said:


> Busy days now for me - getting fitted with some real cool gear for my journey.
> 
> But it's an exicting time for me - and as I read here often for all of you also.
> 
> Let me answer if I can in some way what is in store once I get into GTO. They cannot flex all of my muscles in one movement - it is a well-orchestrated series of events that have to take place in order for me to begin service. It starts slowly, and I need be tested after virtually every command is sent up my way. I have to open and extend my solar arrays to get and maintain power - I need to have my beams focused and tested - and so on.
> 
> It can be done in as little as 21 days I am told, but more likely will be done over 6 weeks. There is no need to rush this as an error could be critical.
> 
> But I do promise you that once I am aloft, and upon commercial service, I will give you all that you are now expecting - and then some.
> 
> Thank goodness they didn't send me to Russia in the middle of the winter! This place is out in the sticks to begin with.
> 
> That's all for now - regards to the faithful.


Do you hate it when the compress the signal to much on you? Do you think they will ever find a cure for this disease?


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve Robertson said:


> Do you hate it when the compress the signal to much on you? Do you think they will ever find a cure for this disease?


MPEG-4


----------



## Steve Robertson

veryoldschool said:


> MPEG-4


Mpeg4 could be the cure if D* decides it is a good remedy however we all know that D* loves to compress things


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve Robertson said:


> Mpeg4 could be the cure if D* decides it is a good remedy however we all know that D* loves to compress things


I don't think it's a question of D* deciding "if" MPEG-4 is good. D* is/has invested a great deal in it for the new channels.


----------



## Steve Robertson

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think it's a question of D* deciding "if" MPEG-4 is good. D* is/has invested a great deal in it for the new channels.


I am just talking about D* compressing the MPEG 4 channels like they have with MPEG 2


----------



## PoitNarf

Steve Robertson said:


> I am just talking about D* compressing the MPEG 4 channels like they have with MPEG 2


Hopefully with all that bandwidth that will be up there, they will not find it necessary.


----------



## veryoldschool

PoitNarf said:


> Hopefully with all that bandwidth that will be up there, they will not find it necessary.


+1


----------



## Steve Robertson

PoitNarf said:


> Hopefully with all that bandwidth that will be up there, they will not find it necessary.


Hopefully is the key word but I guess we will find out in a few months I have waited this long what is a little bit more.


----------



## bonscott87

Assuming the newer encoders the current MPEG4 locals are very close in quality to OTA.

I think the future looks bright for PQ on the new national MPEG4 channels.


----------



## mrjim

I also like to quality of D* MPEG4 out of Milwaukee, very close to OTA's


----------



## John4924

I am also very impressed with D* quality of MPEG4 out of New Orleans. I was watching the golf in HD over the weekend flipping back and forth between OTA and D* and I could not tell the difference.


----------



## Steve Robertson

Well here in Boston it can look good but also can look not so good for whatever reason OTA still beats it here.


----------



## Michael D'Angelo

Mine in Baltimore look the same.


----------



## Radio Enginerd

bonscott87 said:


> Assuming the newer encoders the current MPEG4 locals are very close in quality to OTA.
> 
> I think the future looks bright for PQ on the new national MPEG4 channels.


I agree.

You have to consider the source too. OTA is compressed MPEG-2. The level of compression varies on how many sub channels the affiliate in question is trying to include in the data stream.

I'd be interested to see what MPEG-4 looks like when the source content is "pure" uncompressed HD.


----------



## Steve Robertson

That is very true about the sub channels as our NBC station here in Boston can look pretty bad watching sports. The CBS station with no sub channels I think always looks the best. ABC and Fox are just ok


----------



## Tom Robertson

Steve Robertson said:


> That is very true about the sub channels as our NBC station here in Boston can look pretty bad watching sports. The CBS station with no sub channels I think always looks the best. ABC and Fox are just ok


The SLC NBC had an SD subchannel to feed translators around the state--until NBC started broadcasting NFL games.  As quickly as they could they stopped with the SD subchannel and now only have a weather sub-channel.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## mrjim

5 weeks to the scheduled launch date. I hope HD Net will broadcast the launch, that would be great!


----------



## jasonblair

DVRaholic said:


> My Predict "light Up" date is Monday August 13th
> It will be 7 1/2 weeks after Launch.
> 
> I hope we see SOME New national HD by then


Come on now! You know they will launch it all the day AFTER Labor Day... just to deprive us of holiday TV enjoyment! So I am officially calling it. The new channels will go live at 3AM EDT on Tuesday, September 4th, 2007. Just so we can all get on DBSTalk and complain about how incompetent they are! 

(You know it's gonna happen!)


----------



## PoitNarf

mrjim said:


> 5 weeks to the scheduled launch date. I hope HD Net will broadcast the launch, that would be great!


Nothing like watching the launch of the coming of better quality MPEG4 HD channels on a lower quality MPEG2 HD channel :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

PoitNarf said:


> Nothing like watching the launch of the coming of better quality MPEG4 HD channels on a lower quality MPEG2 HD channel :lol:


Beats the crap out of watching it in SD.....


----------



## RAD

mrjim said:


> 5 weeks to the scheduled launch date. I hope HD Net will broadcast the launch, that would be great!


While that would be nice IMHO HD coverage isn't going to be happening. That would costs a bunch of bucks to send the equipement and techs over there plus the backhaul costs to the states. But if they follow past launches at least there should be a SD version being shown.


----------



## Alan Gordon

RAD said:


> While that would be nice IMHO HD coverage isn't going to be happening. That would costs a bunch of bucks to send the equipement and techs over there plus the backhaul costs to the states. But if they follow past launches at least there should be a SD version being shown.


Whenever DirecTV launched the first SpaceWay satellite, they made a comment about maybe they could do the next launches in HD.

I kind of doubted they would, but it would have been cool!!

~Alan


----------



## noneroy

Man, I'm as excited as the next guy about this here launch, but in my mind I keep seeing the video of that other satellite launch going horribly, horribly wrong. Thankfully, the site in Kazakhstan isn't a sea launch, but I'll still feel better once this puppy is actually up there. Then we can talk about how cool things will be.

I have a good buddy who works at the cable company. If that damn rocket blows up, I'll never hear the end of it.  Then again, if it makes it up with any problems, he'll never hear the end of people calling to cancel their service. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Diana C

Radio Enginerd said:


> ...I'd be interested to see what MPEG-4 looks like when the source content is "pure" uncompressed HD.


Hmmmm...where is DirecTV going to get that from?? Any HD content they broadcast will be delivered to them in compressed MPEG2. So you will still be at the mercy of the originator and how much satellite bandwidth they are willing to pay for. For example, Discovery HDT looks better than most other HD sources on EVERY system I've ever seen (DirecTV, Dish Network, Cablevision and Time Warner Cable). That has to be because they are delivering a superior product via their satellite distribution network. Will Chiller do the same? Unlikely, IMO.


----------



## leww37334

Remember even your OTA HD signal is compressed down about 50:1 before transmission. There is nothing wrong with compression, when it is done right.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Titan25 said:


> Hmmmm...where is DirecTV going to get that from?? Any HD content they broadcast will be delivered to them in compressed MPEG2. So you will still be at the mercy of the originator and how much satellite bandwidth they are willing to pay for. For example, Discovery HDT looks better than most other HD sources on EVERY system I've ever seen (DirecTV, Dish Network, Cablevision and Time Warner Cable). That has to be because they are delivering a superior product via their satellite distribution network. Will Chiller do the same? Unlikely, IMO.


Not necessarily....
That is true for almost ever case with regards to HD-Locals...

But as for the non-OTA broadcasted networks, we have no details on how their signal gets from the network to DirecTV....

If the networks can distribute their signal from "their" head end to each of their affiliates, then the same technology methods could be used to get signals from other channels to DirecTV in as pure as form as possible before MPEG-4 encoding... Or it can be something completely different, that never includes a transformation/distribution via MPEG-2....

We simply don't know... and probably won't know for a long time to come.


----------



## Diana C

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not necessarily....
> That is true for almost ever case with regards to HD-Locals...
> 
> But as for the non-OTA broadcasted networks, we have no details on how their signal gets from the network to DirecTV....
> 
> If the networks can distribute their signal from "their" head end to each of their affiliates, then the same technology methods could be used to get signals from other channels to DirecTV in as pure as form as possible before MPEG-4 encoding... Or it can be something completely different, that never includes a transformation/distribution via MPEG-2....
> 
> We simply don't know... and probably won't know for a long time to come.


Sure we do...they get it the same way they get SD programming: via other satellites.

For example, ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD are transmitted on Galaxy 10R (as is Showtime West HD - the East feed is on AMC 10). Discovery HD Theater is on AMC 11. National Geographic, HBO, HDNet and STARZ are all on Galaxy 13. Browse around the various Ku and C band FSS satellites and you'll find all the HD channels. They are all transmitted in MPEG2 (using various encryption systems).

This IS EXACTLY the same mechanism used to distribute network programming as well - the stations get the network programming already encoded in MPEG2.

No matter HOW a channel is delivered to DirecTV, it will NEVER be uncompressed - nobody is going to dedicate around 2 gigabits per second to a single 1080i feed.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Titan25 said:


> Sure we do...they get it the same way they get SD programming: via other satellites.
> 
> For example, ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD are transmitted on Galaxy 10R (as is Showtime West HD - the East feed is on AMC 10). Discovery HD Theater is on AMC 11. National Geographic, HBO, HDNet and STARZ are all on Galaxy 13. Browse around the various Ku and C band FSS satellites and you'll find all the HD channels. They are all transmitted in MPEG2 (using various encryption systems).
> 
> This IS EXACTLY the same mechanism used to distribute network programming as well - the stations get the network programming already encoded in MPEG2.
> 
> No matter HOW a channel is delivered to DirecTV, it will NEVER be uncompressed - nobody is going to dedicate around 2 gigabits per second to a single 1080i feed.


Don't recall saying that at all (with regards to uncompressed)
Also didn't say they wouldn't get it via SAT... or even in some form of MPEG-2..

All I was saying was that it is pretty well known how they get HD Locals and SD content... but the HD-MPEG-4 we don't have definitives yet...
To "assume" that they are definently going to do it the same way they have in the past......


----------



## Diana C

Earl Bonovich said:


> Don't recall saying that at all (with regards to uncompressed)
> Also didn't say they wouldn't get it via SAT... or even in some form of MPEG-2..
> 
> All I was saying was that it is pretty well known how they get HD Locals and SD content... but the HD-MPEG-4 we don't have definitives yet...
> To "assume" that they are definently going to do it the same way they have in the past......


Sorry if I misconstrued your post, but the entire discussion had been about HD "cable" channels, not locals. My point is that there is no reason to expect them to get any "new" HD national channels any differently that they get the current HD channels. Indeed, many of the channels to be added are ALREADY being distributed via C-Band in MPEG2 (A&E, NGC, etc.).

Since no major programming provider has made a commitment to MPEG4, it seems to me an inescapable conclusion that they will send their content to DirecTV in MPEG2, just as they do today.

And this was all brought up in the first place by the comment that it would be good to see "what MPEG-4 looks like when the source content is 'pure' uncompressed HD." I'm simply pointing out that DirecTV (like any other provider) will never get a uncompressed feed - it will ALWAYS be compressed by the content originator, so quality will always be subject to the care employed by that originator during compression.


----------



## veryoldschool

As a "provider" wouldn't I want my program to be the highest quality? 
Each distributor may compress it to their needs, but why would I want to offer less?


----------



## skyboysea

Titan25 said:


> I'm simply pointing out that DirecTV (like any other provider) will never get a uncompressed feed - it will ALWAYS be compressed by the content originator, so quality will always be subject to the care employed by that originator during compression.


Stupid question: given that D* has facilities in hundreds of cities so that thousands of local channels can be delivered to their uplinks, it is so out of this world thinking that D* could have their own equipment where the national HD channel are produced/distributed and do their own MPEG4 encoding from an uncompressed source for 150 HD national channels?


----------



## Tom Robertson

skyboysea said:


> Stupid question: given that D* has facilities in hundreds of cities so that thousands of local channels can be delivered to their uplinks, it is so out of this world thinking that D* could have their own equipment where the national HD channel are produced/distributed and do their own MPEG4 encoding from an uncompressed source for 150 HD national channels?


Not a stupid question at all. DIRECTV has national broadcast facilities in LA so getting a Fibre optic feed should be fairly trivial.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Diana C

veryoldschool said:


> As a "provider" wouldn't I want my program to be the highest quality?
> Each distributor may compress it to their needs, but why would I want to offer less?


You might also ask why FOX and ABC choose to broadcast in 720p instead of 1080i, even when the source material is film. You might also ask why broadcasters broadcast a single 1080i signal (like WCBS in NYC) while others broadcast multiple subchannels, consuming bandwidth (e.g. WNBC broadcasts one 1080i and 2 480i subchannels).

It's all about money - how much things cost and how much they can make. The business factors dictate that the *minimum* amount of bandwidth possible should be used, since the more you use, the more is costs - particularly when talking about backhauls.


----------



## Diana C

Tom Robertson said:


> Not a stupid question at all. DIRECTV has national broadcast facilities in LA so getting a Fibre optic feed should be fairly trivial.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Sure, but why would they (and the provider) go to the trouble when they still need to distribute the same content to every cable headend in the country (unless DirecTV wants to go into the backhaul business).

Locals are a different story, they only need to be distributed to the local operators. Chiller HD, SciFi HD, etc., will need to get to both DirecTV and Dish Network's uplinks as well as hundreds of cable headends. Since the satellite providers already have dishes pointed at most, if not all, of these satellites, it is FAR easier and cheaper to just plug in another IRD than to run a dozen or more fiber links.


----------



## veryoldschool

Titan25 said:


> You might also ask why FOX and ABC choose to broadcast in 720p instead of 1080i, even when the source material is film. You might also ask why broadcasters broadcast a single 1080i signal (like WCBS in NYC) while others broadcast multiple subchannels, consuming bandwidth (e.g. WNBC broadcasts one 1080i and 2 480i subchannels).
> 
> It's all about money - how much things cost and how much they can make. The business factors dictate that the *minimum* amount of bandwidth possible should be used, since the more you use, the more is costs - particularly when talking about backhauls.


Well let's see:
1) it was in reference to non OTA, 
2) For OTA, 720p was picked for sports or fast action [see complaints about CBS & NCCA or NBA games]
3) Still with OTA, yes a balance from revenue verse quality, but where does HBO, National Geographic, Discovery, to name just a few, send their signals OTA?


----------



## skyboysea

Titan25 said:


> Sure, but why would they (and the provider) go to the trouble when they still need to distribute the same content to every cable headend in the country (unless DirecTV wants to go into the backhaul business).


Because D* is already in the backhaul business. If they have private lines to carry, say, Atlanta locals to their uplink facility, what's the problem in adding CNN HD to them? The additional cost would be very low.
Your position ("things are this way and will ALWAYS be like this") remind me of the "satellite will never be able to do LIL" and its sibling "no way that satellite can do HD-LIL". I am not saying you are wrong but at least be open to the possibility that D* could do something in a different way.


----------



## skaeight

Titan25 said:


> You might also ask why FOX and ABC choose to broadcast in 720p instead of 1080i, even when the source material is film. You might also ask why broadcasters broadcast a single 1080i signal (like WCBS in NYC) while others broadcast multiple subchannels, consuming bandwidth (e.g. WNBC broadcasts one 1080i and 2 480i subchannels).
> 
> It's all about money - how much things cost and how much they can make. The business factors dictate that the *minimum* amount of bandwidth possible should be used, since the more you use, the more is costs - particularly when talking about backhauls.


You do realize that 720p is actually higher resolution than 1080i, right? With 720p there are 720 horizontal lines on the screen at a time, with 1080i there are are only 540 at at time.


----------



## Drew2k

skaeight said:


> You do realize that 720p is actually higher resolution than 1080i, right? With 720p there are 720 horizontal lines on the screen at a time, with 1080i there are are only 540 at at time.


I think you're kind of mixing apples and oranges in your last sentence. With 1080i, there are actually 1080 lines of vertical resolution displayed, not 540 as you implied. However the screen is updated in two passes of 540 line fields at a time, which leads to the artifacting discussed earlier in scenes with quick motion.

Here's Wikipedia's comparison between 720p and 1080i: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p#720p_versus_1080i


----------



## veryoldschool

skaeight said:


> You do realize that 720p is actually higher resolution than 1080i, right? With 720p there are 720 horizontal lines on the screen at a time, with 1080i there are are only 540 at at time.


If you do the math: 720p is a smaller bit stream than 1080i.


----------



## Steve

drew2k said:


> I think you're kind of mixing apples and oranges in your last sentence. With 1080i, there are actually 1080 lines of vertical resolution displayed, not 540 as you implied. However the screen is updated in two passes of 540 line fields at a time, which leads to the artifacting discussed earlier in scenes with quick motion.
> 
> Here's Wikipedia's comparison between 720p and 1080i: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p#720p_versus_1080i


This site has looks at resolution a different way: http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm.

I don't know about others, but from normal viewing distances, it's impossible for me to differentiate between the two. They say "720p is better for action" and "1080i is better for still images", but I'll be darned if I can see any difference on my 50" plasma from 10' away, and I've got (corrected) 20/20 vision. /s


----------



## Steve

veryoldschool said:


> If you do the math: 720p is a smaller bit stream than 1080i.


There are some bandwidth calculations here: http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm, under the "bandwidth" link. /s


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve said:


> There are some bandwidth calculations here: http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm, under the "bandwidth" link. /s


I've got to say there isn't very much relevent to SAT feeds, & the newest date I could find was: 25 Jun 2003


----------



## Christopher Gould

I have read that some national channels are brought to the uplinks though fiber instead of the sats, even thou that national channel is on FSS. B/c there is always a small chance of rain fade and other weather problems.


----------



## Diana C

skyboysea said:


> Because D* is already in the backhaul business. If they have private lines to carry, say, Atlanta locals to their uplink facility, what's the problem in adding CNN HD to them? The additional cost would be very low.
> Your position ("things are this way and will ALWAYS be like this") remind me of the "satellite will never be able to do LIL" and its sibling "no way that satellite can do HD-LIL". I am not saying you are wrong but at least be open to the possibility that D* could do something in a different way.


I am 100% open to "doing things differently" but EVERYTHING is done for business reasons (read as "most profitable") not in pursuit of quality for its own sake (which is not to say that the pursuit of quality can't be profitable).

If, as you set forth, DirecTV has a leased fiber line to carry ATL locals (SD and HD) then it may or may not be relatively inexpensive to buy enough additional bandwidth to carry a HD feed of CNN. You buy fiber lines the same you buy satellite capacity: by bits per second. The more you want, the more you pay. I can guarantee you that whoever DirecTV uses will not give them the extra 18Mbits/second for CNN HD for nothing.

Why, I ask, would DirecTV incur the expense of arranging their own backhauls of CNN, SciFi, A&E, Cinemax, and any other channel on the "coming soon" list when the content provider will be uplinking the feed themselves, at no additional recurring cost to DirecTV? All DirecTV needs to do is invest in the receiver and decoder required for any program off the satellite. The satellite time is paid for by Viacom or Time Warner or whoever is originating the programming.

Unlike doing locals, there is no upside to DirecTV that justifies the additional expense. If there is one, please point it out to me.

(Better quality is not a viable reason - the theoretical quality improvement and better control does not justify the expense unless you can show they will get enough NEW subscribers to cover the additional expenses.)


----------



## Diana C

Christopher Gould said:


> I have read that some national channels are brought to the uplinks though fiber instead of the sats, even thou that national channel is on FSS. B/c there is always a small chance of rain fade and other weather problems.


Yes, the Starz multiplex, for example, is delivered to both satellite providers via fiber. This is because they are all in the same part of the country and Liberty paid for the fiber run.


----------



## Diana C

skaeight said:


> You do realize that 720p is actually higher resolution than 1080i, right? With 720p there are 720 horizontal lines on the screen at a time, with 1080i there are are only 540 at at time.


The issue is not resolution, it is bandwidth. While a 1080i field has 540 lines, at a field rate of 60 fields per second, versus 720 lines at 60 fps for 720p, each line of the 1080i field has more pixels (and therefore bits) than the 720p line.

Each 720p line has 1280 pixels, while a 1080i line has 1920 pixels. Therefore, a 720p field contains 921,600 pixels, while a 1080i field of 540 lines of 1920 pixels contains a total of 1,036,800 pixels. Therefore, the 1080i feed takes more bandwidth (about 12% more).

Besides, the NY FOX affiliate also sends two 480 subchannels along with their 720p subchannel.


----------



## Diana C

Steve said:


> This site has looks at resolution a different way: http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm.
> 
> I don't know about others, but from normal viewing distances, it's impossible for me to differentiate between the two. They say "720p is better for action" and "1080i is better for still images", but I'll be darned if I can see any difference on my 50" plasma from 10' away, and I've got (corrected) 20/20 vision. /s


That's at least partially because your plasma is presenting EVERYTHING in 720p (more likely 768p to be precise). Everything is rescaled by the TV to that resolution.


----------



## RAD

OK, what does all this have to do with the launch date for D10 which is what I thought this thread was about?


----------



## PoitNarf

RAD said:


> OK, what does all this have to do with the launch date for D10 which is what I thought this thread was about?


:shrug:


----------



## VeniceDre

RAD said:


> OK, what does all this have to do with the launch date for D10 which is what I thought this thread was about?


Ha... Thinking the same thing earlier...

:backtotop

Anyone have any new info... been awfully quiet on launch status...


----------



## Jeremy W

VeniceDre said:


> been awfully quiet on launch status...


That's what we like to hear. If they talk, they might say that they're delaying the launch.


----------



## tsbrady1

Thanks RAD, was just about to post the same thing!


----------



## lwilli201

I check the ILS website every day and hope to see the Launch Blog open. But it is not there yet.  The Blog usually opens when the launch team arrives at Baikonur.


----------



## PoitNarf

lwilli201 said:


> I check the ILS website every day and hope to see the Launch Blog open. But it is not there yet.  The Blog usually opens when the launch team arrives at Baikonur.


Excuse my ignorance, but what does this launch blog entail? Do they go over all the prep work for getting the satellite into the launch vehicle and other similar items?


----------



## purtman

lwilli201 said:


> I check the ILS website every day and hope to see the Launch Blog open. But it is not there yet.  The Blog usually opens when the launch team arrives at Baikonur.


Can you please provide the link for the ILS web site? Thanks!


----------



## RAD

purtman said:


> Can you please provide the link for the ILS web site? Thanks!


Here's the link to the blog area on the site, http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/


----------



## lwilli201

PoitNarf said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but what does this launch blog entail? Do they go over all the prep work for getting the satellite into the launch vehicle and other similar items?


Not alot of detail but it does give information as to which stage the launch vehicle is in preparation for launch (vehicle assembly, testing, mating the satallite, roll out to launch pad, etc) The big thing is that when the blog opens, it means the launch is about 4 weeks away. They will also provide a link to watch the launch live on line.


----------



## harsh

lwilli201 said:


> I check the ILS website every day and hope to see the Launch Blog open. But it is not there yet.  The Blog usually opens when the launch team arrives at Baikonur.


Boeing usually announces that they've shipped the satellite too.

The team usually arrives about a week before T-30 days. We're not there yet.

anik posted on the 12th that the first stage (Proton-M) is going together. I think he says that the other two stages are already assembled.


----------



## harsh

lwilli201 said:


> Not alot of detail but it does give information as to which stage the launch vehicle is in preparation for launch (vehicle assembly, testing, mating the satallite, roll out to launch pad, etc)


Anik F3 had quite a bit of detail. I suspect that DirecTV wants a little more secrecy.


> The big thing is that when the blog opens, it means the launch is about 4 weeks away.


Anik F3 launched 5-1/2 weeks after the blog started.


----------



## Racer88

harsh said:


> The team usually arrives about a week before T-30 days. We're not there yet.


HUH? At the time of this post we're less than an hour away from T-30 days. Dunno what clock you're looking at.


----------



## harsh

Racer88 said:


> HUH? At the time of this post were less than an hour away from T-30 days. Dunno what clock you're looking at.


My bad. Apparently DirecTV wants a _lot_ more secrecy.


----------



## Racer88

LOL, yeah I guess so.


----------



## Michael D'Angelo

One month and counting down.


----------



## PoitNarf

BMoreRavens said:


> One month and counting down.


w00t!


----------



## ScoBuck

harsh said:


> My bad. Apparently DirecTV wants a _lot_ more secrecy.


harsh - being a DISH sub and all - why aren't you posting on the E* boards about the 2 DISH launches Charlie said were happening by December? From everything I see, there is no mention of ECHOSTAR 11 anywhere - why don't you go dig it up? That one looks far more in jeopardy of not happening this year than the others - doesn't it? Why the obsession with DirecTV? Thinking of switching over?


----------



## LameLefty

> Why the obsession with DirecTV?


The $64,000 question . . .


----------



## RobertE

ScoBuck said:


> harsh - being a DISH sub and all - why aren't you posting on the E* boards about the 2 DISH launches Charlie said were happening by December? From everything I see, there is no mention of ECHOSTAR 11 anywhere - why don't you go dig it up? That one looks far more in jeopardy of not happening this year than the others - doesn't it? Why the obsession with DirecTV? Thinking of switching over?


Because E* can do no wrong and D* is the anti-(insert deity of choice here).


----------



## RobertE

LameLefty said:


> The $64,000 question . . .


OCD? :lol:


----------



## Diana C

LameLefty said:


> The $64,000 question . . .


I don't know about the question, but the answer is 42.


----------



## BNUMM

ScoBuck said:


> harsh - being a DISH sub and all - why aren't you posting on the E* boards about the 2 DISH launches Charlie said were happening by December? From everything I see, there is no mention of ECHOSTAR 11 anywhere - why don't you go dig it up? That one looks far more in jeopardy of not happening this year than the others - doesn't it? Why the obsession with DirecTV? Thinking of switching over?


To help harsh out E* 11 is supposed to go up in December according to JPL Space Calendar.


----------



## Tom Robertson

BNUMM said:


> To help harsh out E* 11 is supposed to go up in December according to JPL Space Calendar.


I read that site (and others) as showing E11 as launching in November, assuming that SeaLaunch gets going in October with Thuraya 3.

Beyond that, most of the E11 info should be posted in the Dish Network forums.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ScoBuck

BNUMM said:


> To help harsh out E* 11 is supposed to go up in December according to JPL Space Calendar.


Which also says DIRECTV11 for December from sea launch as well. IMO, should they in fact resume launches in October, they cannot also launch in November for sure. Even December is optimistic after an accident had occurred. Closer reading of that calendar shows 2 launches each for Sea Launch in both Nov and Dec - no way.


----------



## Diana C

ScoBuck said:


> Which also says DIRECTV11 for December from sea launch as well. IMO, should they in fact resume launches in October, they cannot also launch in November for sure. Even December is optimistic after an accident had occurred. Closer reading of that calendar shows 2 launches each for Sea Launch in both Nov and Dec - no way.


In the original launch manifest, DirecTV-11 was several missions before Echostar-11. Who knows what it looks like these days, but you are quite correct. The minimum turn-around for SeaLaunch is 6 weeks (it takes almost that long just to move the launch platform back and forth). My guess is that one (or both) launches will be delayed well into 2008.


----------



## heavyobjects

IMHO, subscribers of both E* and D* should be rooting for all four satellites to go up successfully and in a timely manner. The worst thing that could happen for both populations is for one, and only one, company to have their new satellites and bandwidth operational for a long time before the competition gets their infrastructure up. We all know what follows from that ...


----------



## ScoBuck

I am in full agreemet that we should all be hoping for success. But even saying that, since DISH sux for sports - while they both hopefully have over 100 HD channels, DISH has no NFL no MLB, they don't even carry YES. - why switch?


----------



## heavyobjects

ScoBuck said:


> I am in full agreemet that we should all be hoping for success. But even saying that, since DISH sux for sports - while they both hopefully have over 100 HD channels, DISH has no NFL no MLB, they don't even carry YES. - why switch?


I have no 'expert' basis for saying this, but I think the days of the exclusive sports rights (NFLST, EI) are drawing to a close. The DirecTV-EI exclusive failed and it set an industry precedent. To my knowledge, the NFLST contract is up after 08. And none of this is a bad thing for anyone.


----------



## harsh

heavyobjects said:


> To my knowledge, the NFLST contract is up after 08.


The NFL ST contract runs through 2010. Arlen Specter notwithstanding, it will likely be renewed at that time.

At some point between now and then, DirecTV should have the capacity to deliver games in HD without having to temporarily shut down their regular HD variety programming.


----------



## ScoBuck

heavyobjects said:


> I have no 'expert' basis for saying this, but I think the days of the exclusive sports rights (NFLST, EI) are drawing to a close. The DirecTV-EI exclusive failed and it set an industry precedent. To my knowledge, the NFLST contract is up after 08. And none of this is a bad thing for anyone.


IMO those sports offerings won't ever be on DISH. MLB is a 7 year deal. Charlie won't pay for football as the overwhelming majority of people wanting it are getting Directv already. Way too expensive a gamble for them.


----------



## DCSholtis

How did the MLB-EI exclusive fail?!! True they failed to grab the overall exclusivity but they did pretty well for themselves being the exclusive sat carrier AND managing to negotiate rights for Rogers Sportsnet, SD4 and CSN Philly feeds for the package for the first time. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## heavyobjects

DCSholtis said:


> How did the MLB-EI exclusive fail?!!


Well, the fact that exclusivity is no longer part of the contract...


----------



## cavihitts

I thought this thread was exclusively for the launch of D10


----------



## DCSholtis

heavyobjects said:


> Well, the fact that exclusivity is no longer part of the contract...


Um it is for satellite in case you have not heard yet. OK back to topic...


----------



## heavyobjects

DCSholtis said:


> Um it is for satellite in case you have not heard yet. OK back to topic...


You are quite smug for being incorrect. E* gave up negotiations this year, however, the contract is no longer an exclusive. The door is open for the company to renegotiate a deal next year.

*But yes, back to the topic. My point is, it would best serve CUSTOMERS of both companies that these satellites go up successfully and that capabilities, bandwidth, and offerings (i.e., packages), were equitable.*

I officially join the picket line: :backtotop


----------



## Earl Bonovich

:backtotop

Regarding the launch of DTV 10


----------



## Jeremy W

techntrek said:


> Let me explain using this chart.


I'm not going to go through this again because of Earl's request, but I will just tell you again that you are misunderstanding the issue.

:backtotop

Yay new HD channels!


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> :backtotop
> 
> Yay new HD channels!


Yay new SATs.....


----------



## cb7214

techntrek said:


> Jeremy - MPEG-4 drops more info, so it will not look better. A basic rule of file compression, the more you drop, the worse it will look. This includes keeping less chroma info, using more frame-to-frame prediction, and chopping each frame into a smaller grid so more squares in that grid are ultimately lost since they are "similar".
> 
> The results of the simulcast might indicate that they don't use HD lite on the MPEG-4 streams. Or, since the compression in MPEG-2 and 4 can be adjusted (like a JPEG file can be adjusted from really lossy to less lossy), its possible they aren't compressing the MPEG-4 streams as much as the MPEG-2 streams, especially since the sats that use the MPEG-2 streams are so bandwidth starved.
> 
> Edit: I'll drop the issue on this thread since its apparently not on-topic enough.


not on topic enough? thread is about a satellite launch and you 2 were discussing the mpeg 2 vs mpeg 4. That had nothing to do with the launch of a satellite. Geez guys come on :nono2:


----------



## cforrest

Not sure if this link was posted, but it has all the specifications on the satellites to be launched, D10 & D11, from boeing.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/factsheets/702/dtv10-11-12_factsheet.pdf


----------



## techntrek

cb7214 - a discussion of one of the major functions of the satellite and how it will be an improvement over the old satellites seemed very much on-topic to me. Obviously not to the moderators.


----------



## mhayes70

techntrek said:


> cb7214 - a discussion of one of the major functions of the satellite and how it will be an improvement over the old satellites seemed very much on-topic to me. Obviously not to the moderators.


This tread is about the launch of the sat. There is a separate thread about MPEG2 vs MPEG4.


----------



## veryoldschool

techntrek said:


> cb7214 - a discussion of one of the major functions of the satellite and how it will be an improvement over the old satellites seemed very much on-topic to me. Obviously not to the moderators.


here is where you want: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88102


----------



## davidrumm

I found this today doing a news search. It is kind of hard to read as it was translated from russian. But if I am reading it correctly they are saying that Directv 10 has been mated to its booster and they are working on the rest of the rocket.

This is from Kazakhstan Today.


----------



## techntrek

I found article line interesting this (bad grammar intentional):

"DirecTV-10" satellite has more than 3 tones of weight and will supplement satellite grouping on near-earth orbit to serve for satellite TV during 15 years. "

Just imagine what tech we'll be talking about in 10 years when they are building its replacement...


----------



## harsh

davidrumm said:


> But if I am reading it correctly they are saying that Directv 10 has been mated to its booster and they are working on the rest of the rocket.


This post from anik on the May 12th indicates that they had unloaded the second and third stages and were in the process of unloading the first stage.

I'm guessing that the reference to DirecTV 10 was the eventual use as assembly of the first stage seemed to be the subject of the article. According to the ILS timeline, mating happens at T-10 days.


----------



## bforan21

DirecTV10 ... could you give us an update on your status?


----------



## HarleyD

davidrumm said:


> I found this today doing a news search. It is kind of hard to read as it was translated from russian. But if I am reading it correctly they are saying that Directv 10 has been mated to its booster and they are working on the rest of the rocket.
> 
> This is from Kazakhstan Today.


----------



## mhayes70

davidrumm said:


> I found this today doing a news search. It is kind of hard to read as it was translated from russian. But if I am reading it correctly they are saying that Directv 10 has been mated to its booster and they are working on the rest of the rocket.
> 
> This is from Kazakhstan Today.


That is what I think they are saying also. Hopefully we can get a confirmation from Directv10 shortly.


----------



## old7

mhayes70 said:


> That is what I think they are saying also. Hopefully we can get a confirmation from Directv10 shortly.


Be patient. Be patient. DirecTV10 just finished mating. Let him take nap, have a couple drags on a cigarette or what ever it is that satellites do after mating.


----------



## Jon D

old7 said:


> Be patient. Be patient. DirecTV10 just finished mating. Let him take nap, have a couple drags on a cigarette or what ever it is that satellites do after mating.


Hopefully they launch into a stable geo-stationary orbit after mating.. If I was a satellite that's what I would want to do. :lol:


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Well hey there all - wanted to give you something of an update - and the news is all good, and we are on schedule.

Thanks for all the good wishes and thoughts as expressed here - I enjoy reading them in my down-time, which since I have gotten to Russia has been very rare indeed.

I have been fitted with my launch jacket, and I am sitting atop a portion of the booster rocket, undergoing final inspections and testing. The mating went on without a hitch. Soon I will perched high atop the Proton Rocket, and will be on the final earthly segment of my existence - I am so excited as launch is now less than 4 weeks away.

I am prepared to begin my amazing journey into orbit, and then to provide what you all will agree is stunning HD programming - and LOTS OF IT!. 

As I am unable to communicate with my brother DirecTV11 - until he also is put into orbit, if any of you see him around, please send my best wishes and let him know I await HIS journey.

I will try to update again as we get closer to launch - GODSPEED!

!pride :wave:


----------



## mhayes70

Thanks for the update. That is great to hear. Good Luck!!!


----------



## DIRECTV-10

Heres some technical stuff for those of you that can understand it. I am one powerful SOB!

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/factsheets/702/dtv10-11-12_factsheet.pdf

D10


----------



## purtman

DirecTV10 said:


> Well hey there all - wanted to give you something of an update - and the news is all good, and we are on schedule.
> 
> Thanks for all the good wishes and thoughts as expressed here - I enjoy reading them in my down-time, which since I have gotten to Russia has been very rare indeed.
> 
> I have been fitted with my launch jacket, and I am sitting atop a portion of the booster rocket, undergoing final inspections and testing. The mating went on without a hitch. Soon I will perched high atop the Proton Rocket, and will be on the final earthly segment of my existence - I am so excited as launch is now less than 4 weeks away.
> 
> I am prepared to begin my amazing journey into orbit, and then to provide what you all will agree is stunning HD programming - and LOTS OF IT!.
> 
> As I am unable to communicate with my brother DirecTV11 - until he also is put into orbit, if any of you see him around, please send my best wishes and let him know I await HIS journey.
> 
> I will try to update again as we get closer to launch - GODSPEED!
> 
> !pride :wave:


Any blog in the works?


----------



## mhayes70

Wow. You do have some power! That is some very good info.


----------



## Tom Robertson

DirecTV10 said:


> Heres some technical stuff for those of you that can understand it. I am one powerful SOB!
> 
> http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/factsheets/702/dtv10-11-12_factsheet.pdf
> 
> D10


This is an awesome link! I'll update the thread I built just for you and the other members of the DIRECTV Ka band family.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RAD

On thing I'm curious about is how many transponders will be used at 99 and 103. According to http://www.dbsforums.com/compare/chart.html D* has 48 Ka band transponder licenses at each 99 and 103 location. Is that an error at DBSForum or does D* actually have 16 more transponders at each orbital slot to use vs. the normal 32 that was licensed for DBS slots? If they really have a total 96 transponders licenses to use that's a lot of extra bandwidth available.


----------



## Diana C

I think that was based upon an assumption of the same transponder bandwidth. Since it seems that the transponder bandwidth is wider than on KU, there will probably be fewer transponder channels (perhaps 32, or possibly 24).

That chart hasn't been updated in a long time, so it is based upon info available before the Spaceway satellites went into service.


----------



## Tom Robertson

RAD said:


> On thing I'm curious about is how many transponders will be used at 99 and 103. According to http://www.dbsforums.com/compare/chart.html D* has 48 Ka band transponder licenses at each 99 and 103 location. Is that an error at DBSForum or does D* actually have 16 more transponders at each orbital slot to use vs. the normal 32 that was licensed for DBS slots? If they really have a total 96 transponders licenses to use that's a lot of extra bandwidth available.


This is where Ka-band is tricky. In the Ka-band and the new FSS-band satellite owners are allowed to breakup the bandwidth they are allotted in any way they want. Each block of assignment is 500MHz wide (400MHz in the case of over the US FSS), which is 24 old style, Ku-band or DBS transponders. But in some cases, DIRECTV is using just 4 physical transponders for a 500MHz block--250MHz each. 2 with left polarity and 2 with right.

At each of DIRECTV's Ka band orbital slots, 99° and 103°, DIRECTV has been assigned 2 500MHz groups--Ka hi and Ka lo. S1 and S2 are using 62.5MHz wide transponders at Ka-hi. D10 and D11 will be using 40MHz wide transponders at Ka-lo. (And that's when we'll need the BBCs!)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## harsh

It should be noted that the BBCs have nothing to do with the satellite transmission frequencies used, rather they are needed because of the limited bandwidth of RG6 cable. S1 and S2 didn't add much bandwidth because they are both spotbeamed and most could tune four or less of the Spaceway transponders.

The promised national HD content will really fill up the pipe where the Spaceways were a relative trickle.


----------



## bobnielsen

Actually the entire 250-2150 MHz bandwidth is sent through the cable (the BBCs are at the far end). Which leads me to wonder why the BBC wasn't built into the receivers. I don't know the answer, but possibly the BBCs are a stop-gap solution until the SWMs can be fully deployed.


----------



## Jeremy W

bobnielsen said:


> the BBCs are a stop-gap solution until the SWMs can be fully deployed.


Ding ding ding!


----------



## Drew2k

harsh said:


> It should be noted that the BBCs have nothing to do with the satellite transmission frequencies used, rather they are needed because of the limited bandwidth of RG6 cable. S1 and S2 didn't add much bandwidth because they are both spotbeamed and most could tune four or less of the Spaceway transponders.


Here's what Earl says:


Earl Bonovich said:


> Your HR10's don't need B-Band Converters.
> 
> But on your H20's and HR20's... you will need them when the new SATs are launched.
> 
> The B-Band converters... do what their name suggestions.
> When the new SATs go live, they are going to use a part of the data stream that our units can no tune directly...
> 
> So they "convert" the signal from the "B" band, to the band it needs to be in so the unit can receive them.


----------



## n3ntj

DirecTV10 said:


> Heres some technical stuff for those of you that can understand it. I am one powerful SOB!
> 
> http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/factsheets/702/dtv10-11-12_factsheet.pdf
> 
> D10


Good info, thanks for posting!


----------



## cforrest

I posted that boeing link 3 days ago, WTF! I get no love, LOL!

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=946527&postcount=420


----------



## Jeremy W

cforrest said:


> I posted that boeing link 3 days ago, WTF! I get no love, LOL!


D10 posted it in a much more confident manner. And besides, it's basically his biography!


----------



## cforrest

Jeremy W said:


> D10 posted it in a much more confident manner. And besides, it's basically his biography!


I'll have to remember, confidence is key, next time I post a link :lol:


----------



## Tom Robertson

cforrest said:


> I posted that boeing link 3 days ago, WTF! I get no love, LOL!
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=946527&postcount=420


Sorry, my bad! Missed it somehow. It is an awesome link!

Tom


----------



## harsh

The Briz-M upper stage (the one that DirecTV 10 will be mounted to) arrived in Baikonur this morning. Thanks to anik for the link as posted on nasaspaceflight.com.

Baikonur is 9 hours ahead of EDT.


----------



## EdN

What positions in orbit are DirecTV 10 and 11 likely to take up ?
Does the 5-LNB dish have built-in switches and how many coax cables ultimately go from the dish to a single H20 receiver inside the house? 
Where can I get more technical info on the 5-LNB dish?


----------



## raoul5788

EdN said:


> What positions in orbit are DirecTV 10 and 11 likely to take up ?
> Does the 5-LNB dish have built-in switches and how many coax cables ultimately go from the dish to a single H20 receiver inside the house?
> Where can I get more technical info on the 5-LNB dish?


D10 is going in the 103 slot, D11 in the 99, from what I have read. There is a built in multi switch on the dish that has four outputs. Since the H20 has one tuner, you will need one cable for the D* tuner and one for ota tuner. I don't know how technical you mean, but www.solidsignal.com has an installation video on their website.


----------



## Diana C

DirecTV10 said:


> ...I have been fitted with my launch jacket, and I am sitting atop a portion of the booster rocket, undergoing final inspections and testing. The mating went on without a hitch....





harsh said:


> The Briz-M upper stage (the one that DirecTV 10 will be mounted to) arrived in Baikonur this morning. Thanks to anik for the link as posted on nasaspaceflight.com.


Well, if the Breeze-M just got to Baikonour on 5/28, I'm not sure what DirecTV-10 was "sitting atop" on 5/25, but it wasn't any part of the launch vehicle. The payload fairing (aka "launch jacket") and the payload attach to the Breeze-M, which then gets set on top of the Proton multi-stage booster.

Interactive diagram of the Proton-Breeze: http://www.ilslaunch.com/products/proton/breeze/


----------



## machavez00

EdN said:


> What positions in orbit are DirecTV 10 and 11 likely to take up ?
> Does the 5-LNB dish have built-in switches and how many coax cables ultimately go from the dish to a single H20 receiver inside the house?
> Where can I get more technical info on the 5-LNB dish?


I read in another post they will be above/below the 99(b) and 103(a) sats. and will be 99(a) and 103(b)

There are 4 outputs from the 5lnb dish that can be used for 4 H20s or 2 HR20s without a multi switch or SWM. (HD setup)


----------



## LameLefty

> I read in another post they will be above/below the 99(b) and 103(a) sats. and will be 99(a) and 103(b)


Regardless of what your receiver calls them (e.g., "a" or "b" for any particular slot), if their orbital altitudes are above or below that required for GSO (geostationary orbit) they will drift - too high and the orbital period is less than the period of earth's rotation and so the satellite will appear to drift westward in the sky as the earth rotates beneath it faster than the satellite orbits. Too low and the orbital period is faster than the period of earth's rotation and so the satellite will appear to drift eastward in the sky.

So, "above" and "below" can't really be used to describe their positions relative to another GSO satellite, at least not when they are in stable operational orbital slots.


----------



## veryoldschool

LameLefty said:


> So, "above" and "below" can't really be used to describe their positions relative to another GSO satellite, at least not when they are in stable operational orbital slots.


Maybe it's a question of relativity, as they will co-located in the orbital slots, but can't occupy the same physical space, so must be slightly above or below [either in altitude or from the horizon] to some degree [or part of a degree]. Right?


----------



## bonscott87

The short of it is that the 5 LNB dish was built specifically to *get* the signals from the new satellites.
Just like the Phase III (3LNB) it has a built in switch which you can then run up to 4 tuners directly. If you need more then 4 tuners then you need an external multiswitch which for the 5 LNB dish is the Zinwell 6x8 (and provided free as part of your install of the 5 LNB).


----------



## Diana C

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe it's a question of relativity, as they will co-located in the orbital slots, but can't occupy the same physical space, so must be slightly above or below [either in altitude or from the horizon] to some degree [or part of a degree]. Right?


Actually, they will be slightly to the left or right.

For example, Spaceway-1 is not at 103° (AMC-1 is there) it is at 102.8°. IIRC, DirecTV-10 is supposed to go to 102.9°. That would place the two Ka band satellites about 45 miles apart on average. At over 23,000 miles away, that's a pretty insignificant difference, even for the tighter focus of Ka on the 5LNB dish.


----------



## veryoldschool

Titan25 said:


> Actually, they will be slightly to the left or right.
> 
> For example, Spaceway-1 is not at 103° (AMC-1 is there) it is at 102.8°. IIRC, DirecTV-10 is supposed to go to 102.9°. That would place the two Ka band satellites about 45 miles apart on average. At over 23,000 miles away, that's a pretty insignificant difference, even for the tighter focus of Ka on the 5LNB dish.


Out of the three axis, I pick two of them & get it wrong. :lol:


----------



## machavez00

Titan25 said:


> Actually, they will be slightly to the left or right.
> 
> For example, Spaceway-1 is not at 103° (AMC-1 is there) it is at 102.8°. IIRC, DirecTV-10 is supposed to go to 102.9°. That would place the two Ka band satellites about 45 miles apart on average. At over 23,000 miles away, that's a pretty insignificant difference, even for the tighter focus of Ka on the 5LNB dish.


That is what I was trying to say. I'm not an expert and from and was only stating what I have read in another thread that the new sats will near the ones that are already there.



litzdog911 said:


> The new Ka-band satellites will be at 99 & 103-deg W. Same location as the current Ka-band satellites.


I was incorrect in my description of where they will be in relation to the sats in those slots now


----------



## Tom Robertson

If one contorts wording slightly and is trying to describe the new satellite location from the EAST horizon, then it would be above or below...  

As Titan25 points out, more conventionally it would be described as facing the satellites from earth and therefore left or right.

The last items I've found have both S1 and D10 at 102.80±.05°, obviously not gonna happen. (And likely I've just missed an FCC request or MOD indicating where something is supposed to be.)

At 101°WL, the satellites are spaced at .05±0.05 meaning two satellites could try to take the same space at the same time. The operators are told work with each other to keep things from crashing.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## raoul5788

I think the "technical term" is co-located.


----------



## veryoldschool

raoul5788 said:


> I think the "technical term" is co-located.


At least I got that part correct. :lol:


----------



## The_Geyser

I'm sorry if I missed this...What are the plans for the sats at 110 and 119? Will they be used after D10 and D11 are up?


----------



## RAD

The_Geyser said:


> I'm sorry if I missed this...What are the plans for the sats at 110 and 119? Will they be used after D10 and D11 are up?


Yes, they will still be used for the forseeable future. 119 has a bunch of spot beams on it for SD LIL's plus some CONUS. While 110 only has three transponders, once they migrate all the HD to MPEG4 that could handle 15 to 18 HD channels.


----------



## harsh

The_Geyser said:


> I'm sorry if I missed this...What are the plans for the sats at 110 and 119? Will they be used after D10 and D11 are up?


The SD programming isn't going away. I would guess that some of the "wing dish" SD programming will be moved to the "standard" Ku satellites.

There is always the faint hope that some of the new found bandwidth will be used to improve the PQ of SD channels that are already carried.


----------



## harsh

Titan25 said:


> Well, if the Breeze-M just got to Baikonour on 5/28, I'm not sure what DirecTV-10 was "sitting atop" on 5/25, but it wasn't any part of the launch vehicle.


You saved me the trouble of being abused for what DirecTV 10 said.


----------



## Diana C

harsh said:


> You saved me the trouble of being abused for what DirecTV 10 said.


Yeah, well being all folded up the way it is, it is probably hard for DirecTV-10 to see what it is sitting on.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Titan25 said:


> Yeah, well being all folded up the way it is, it is probably hard for DirecTV-10 to see what it is sitting on.


:lol:


----------



## dwrats_56

Yippee!!!! Better than 3 weeks to go..

Current local time in Baykonur ( Baikonur Cosmodrome ), Kazakhstan
Wednesday, 30 May 2007 02:33 AM


----------



## dwrats_56

My bad. I was going from memory and I thought the launch was 1:19 Baikonur Cosmodrome local time. Not 1:19 UTC. It is getting close to 3 weeks away..


----------



## The_Geyser

Thanks, RAD & harsh.


----------



## loudo

dwrats_56 said:


> Yippee!!!! Better than 3 weeks to go..
> 
> Current local time in Baykonur ( Baikonur Cosmodrome ), Kazakhstan
> Wednesday, 30 May 2007 02:33 AM


Till launch but channel light up time won't be until after all the setup and testing has been done. Looks like some time in September.


----------



## purtman

loudo said:


> Till launch but channel light up time won't be until after all the setup and testing has been done. Looks like some time in September.


Based on all indications, it appears August is more likely. I'm saying this based on several items that I've read.


----------



## Drew2k

purtman said:


> Based on all indications, it appears August is more likely. I'm saying this based on several items that I've read.


You know someon's going to ask, so ... care to share the sources, where you've read this?

I'm all for getting the HD earlier, but everything I have read (threads here at DBSTalk) has pointed to September, and I'd hate to see everyone get up in arms if August is "premature"...


----------



## Tom Robertson

drew2k said:


> You know someon's going to ask, so ... care to share the sources, where you've read this?
> 
> I'm all for getting the HD earlier, but everything I have read (threads here at DBSTalk) has pointed to September, and I'd hate to see everyone get up in arms if August is "premature"...


Since DIRECTV _will_ launch June 19th our time (thinking positively  ), IF they wanted to push the testing cycle to be as quick as possible, some HD could be available as quickly as July 17th or 18th. But nobody likes to push those kinds of schedules. Six to 8 weeks is much more likely as a minimum, giving a range of July 31 to August 15 as reasonable possible launch dates.

Currently DIRECTV is hinting at very early in September, consistent with being conservative should any problems occur.

All I can say is "BRING IT ON!" I'm ready. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## cforrest

I e-mailed Fran today at ILS on when the blog will be updated for Directv 10. Below is the following reply:

"Well, it's so nice to hear from a fan of the blog. Our early team is en route to Baikonur, so as soon as they start sending us updates we'll start posting entries."


Should be sometime soon, within the next week, I would guess.


----------



## lwilli201

Anik at NASA Spaceflight.com has changed his launch list as follows:

June 20 (TBD) – DirecTV 10 – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur – 01:19 UTC

Added (TBD).


----------



## purtman

Tom Robertson said:


> Since DIRECTV _will_ launch June 19th our time (thinking positively  ), IF they wanted to push the testing cycle to be as quick as possible, some HD could be available as quickly as July 17th or 18th. But nobody likes to push those kinds of schedules. Six to 8 weeks is much more likely as a minimum, giving a range of July 31 to August 15 as reasonable possible launch dates.
> 
> Currently DIRECTV is hinting at very early in September, consistent with being conservative should any problems occur.
> 
> All I can say is "BRING IT ON!" I'm ready.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom et al,
The reason I say August is two-fold. There were several times where stations which are said to launch in September will be added to D*'s lineup. The other one is that there is a Disney movie which is scheduled to make its premier in HD on Aug. 17. It noted that the movie would appear on D* on that night. 
I would have thought around Labor Day, but when I saw these other items I assumed August. That being said, I can't blame D* for being conservative on its go-live dates. Anybody would has visited this site knows that there are some posters here who want to come down on D* for anything that they can. I'm surprised we haven't seen global warming blamed on D* yet. :lol:


----------



## Teronzhul

Well, I'm sure those satellites are reflecting a lot of light back down on the planet...


----------



## Jeremy W

purtman said:


> there is a Disney movie which is scheduled to make its premier in HD on Aug. 17. It noted that the movie would appear on D* on that night.


The movie was said to be showing up "several" (IIRC) days later, exclusively on DirecTV. I'm not certain of the exact wording, but it was definitely not the same night it was premiering on the Disney Channel.


----------



## harsh

purtman said:


> Based on all indications, it appears August is more likely. I'm saying this based on several items that I've read.


I can't find much to support your case. Here's a vote for September from the president of the company:


Chase Carey at Q1 2007 earnings conference said:


> At the top of the list is clearly our planned launch of a new satellite, a satellite we are calling DirecTV-10 in late June. This satellite will greatly increase our HD capacity beginning in September; that's about the target when we hope the satellite should be operational if everything stays on target. With that satellite, we'll move forward to later this year, towards the end of the year bringing 100 channels of HD to the marketplace.


Here's a link to the full transcript.

His words get a little tentative with "we hope" and "if everything stays on target", but clearly not towards going operational earlier.

Couple this with all of the September national "HD" channel launches and I'm baffled how you could some up with August.


----------



## harsh

lwilli201 said:


> Added (TBD).


ACK!!!


----------



## harsh

Fran of ILS said:


> "Well, it's so nice to hear from a fan of the blog. Our early team is en route to Baikonur, so as soon as they start sending us updates we'll start posting entries."


In the Anik F3 timeline, the ILS "Main Team" arrived a day before the satellite itself arrived.


----------



## purtman

Jeremy W said:


> The movie was said to be showing up "several" (IIRC) days later, exclusively on DirecTV. I'm not certain of the exact wording, but it was definitely not the same night it was premiering on the Disney Channel.


Here we go:
*As it continues to beef up its HD channel lineup, DIRECTV has also become the platform of choice for the debut of exclusive HD programming. Disney Channel is providing DIRECTV the exclusive rights to broadcast the premiere HD version of High School Musical 2, the highly anticipated sequel to the global sensation for kids and families. DIRECTV will air the movie in HD a few days after its standard-definition premiere Friday, August 17 on Disney Channel.*

A "few" typically means three, not 15 days (i.e., Sept. 1) later. Hence, the assumption of August.


----------



## purtman

harsh said:


> I can't find much to support your case. Here's a vote for September from the president of the company:Here's a link to the full transcript.
> 
> His words get a little tentative with "we hope" and "if everything stays on target", but clearly not towards going operational earlier.
> 
> Couple this with all of the September national "HD" channel launches and I'm baffled how you could some up with August.


"Baffled?"

*The History Channel and DIRECTV recently announced that DIRECTV will be the first to launch The History Channel HD, a new 24-hour HD network, and A&E HD in September.*

If D* is going to launch History Channel HD when it begins in September, D* will already have the sat running on whatever day it launches. If it launches on September 1, then D* will already have to be running. There's no references to D* picking it up after the fact. Combine that with the previous Disney reference and that's why I came up with some time in August.


----------



## MizzouTiger

purtman said:


> Here we go:
> *As it continues to beef up its HD channel lineup, DIRECTV has also become the platform of choice for the debut of exclusive HD programming. Disney Channel is providing DIRECTV the exclusive rights to broadcast the premiere HD version of High School Musical 2, the highly anticipated sequel to the global sensation for kids and families. DIRECTV will air the movie in HD a few days after its standard-definition premiere Friday, August 17 on Disney Channel.*
> 
> A "few" typically means three, not 15 days (i.e., Sept. 1) later. Hence, the assumption of August.


I was just assuming that D* would show this on one of the existing HD channels (upper 70's or 90's) just like when they pick up some of the RSN HD feeds and put them on one of those channels.


----------



## harsh

purtman said:


> Combine that with the previous Disney reference and that's why I came up with some time in August.


Every announcement and indicator thus far has used the word September or the phrase "beginning in September". This would not suggest August or earlier.

It is possible that the Disney movie would be yet another "sneak preview" such as has been done with National Geographic only one would hope that it would show up in prime time.

I would also point out the similarity between "soon" and "a few days". Both imply a relatively short period of time but are delightfully noncommittal.


----------



## JeffBowser

This is hillarious. It will be up and running when it is up and running. No amount of fuss and bother on this board is going to affect that one iota. Mark my words, some are getting "pre-lathered" for a hissy fit and it's not even June yet.


----------



## Steve Robertson

JeffBowser said:


> This is hillarious. It will be up and running when it is up and running. No amount of fuss and bother on this board is going to affect that one iota. Mark my words, some are getting "pre-lathered" for a hissy fit and it's not even June yet.


Very well put


----------



## bonscott87

purtman said:


> Here we go:
> *As it continues to beef up its HD channel lineup, DIRECTV has also become the platform of choice for the debut of exclusive HD programming. Disney Channel is providing DIRECTV the exclusive rights to broadcast the premiere HD version of High School Musical 2, the highly anticipated sequel to the global sensation for kids and families. DIRECTV will air the movie in HD a few days after its standard-definition premiere Friday, August 17 on Disney Channel.*
> 
> A "few" typically means three, not 15 days (i.e., Sept. 1) later. Hence, the assumption of August.


There is nothing about showing a single movie that has to be in MPEG4 or on the new sats. They can easily put this on the HD PPV channel 99.

But most likely it will go on their new VOD service and help bring visability to it after they launch in July, assuming it's still on schedule.


----------



## purtman

JeffBowser said:


> This is hillarious. It will be up and running when it is up and running. No amount of fuss and bother on this board is going to affect that one iota. Mark my words, some are getting "pre-lathered" for a hissy fit and it's not even June yet.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ScoBuck

At least harsh is willing to concede programming from D10 by September - I can't be the only one that remembers his continuing posts about the unlikelyhood that it could be on much before DECEMBER. Always remember he chooses the negative always.


----------



## HarleyD

ScoBuck said:


> At least harsh is willing to concede programming from D10 by September - I can't be the only one that remembers his continuing posts about the unlikelyhood that it could be on much before DECEMBER. Always remember he chooses the negative always.


You're not the only one who remembers.


----------



## harsh

ScoBuck said:


> At least harsh is willing to concede programming from D10 by September - I can't be the only one that remembers his continuing posts about the unlikelyhood that it could be on much before DECEMBER.


I'm not conceding anything. I'm saying that it is folly to suggest that anything is going to happen significantly ahead of stated schedules.

Absent authoritative information to the contrary, the people will develop their own information.

For the benefit of all, I'm concentrating on offering links to the authoritative information in hopes that the fabricated information will be more realistic.


----------



## Radio Enginerd

ScoBuck said:


> Always remember he chooses the negative always.


Hence why he has the name "Harsh".

And he still may be right. Until that bad boy is in orbit and talking to earth I will continue to be hopeful that we'll see these channels in September. I have no reason to believe we wont, just being conservative.


----------



## Diana C

harsh said:


> I'm not conceding anything. I'm saying that it is folly to suggest that anything is going to happen significantly ahead of stated schedules.
> 
> Absent authoritative information to the contrary, the people will develop their own information.
> 
> For the benefit of all, I'm concentrating on offering links to the authoritative information in hopes that the fabricated information will be more realistic.


At the risk of being flamed by the "DirecTV-10 will get turned on tomorrow" group, let me point out that this thread has been full of people making guesses and passing them off as facts. Harsh, at least, has posted official press releases.

For example, on May 25th user "DirecTV-10" claimed that the satellite had been mated to the booster and the payload fairing attached. However, a press release stated that the Breeze-M was not delivered to the launch site until May 28th. As far as we know it STILL has not been mated to the payload, since that won't happen until the launch team is there, and they were still enroute as of May 29th.

Once they arrive, the satellite will actually get mated to the Breeze-M. Once that happens, the next step is "turn-over" (the payload is turned on its side before the fairings are attached). THEN, the fairing is attached (something "DirecTV-10" claimed to have happened a week ago). Meanwhile, the Proton 1st, 2nd, and 3rd stages need to be delivered and assembled. Then the Breeze/Payload assembly is mounted atop the Proton.

It would appear that "DirecTV-10" was basing his statements by working backwards from the June 20th date, and figuring what SHOULD have been going on at the moment if they were to make that date. The June 20th launch date is certainly still possible, but time is growing short. There is a lot of work to be done in the next 3 weeks.


----------



## mthompso105

SpaceFlight now has just changed their post for DirectTV 10 to reflect a July 7th(GMT) liftoff

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
July 6/7 Proton • DirecTV 10
Launch time: 0116 GMT on July 7 (9:16 p.m. EDT on July 6)
Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan

An International Launch Services Proton rocket with a Breeze M upper stage will launch the DirecTV 10 broadcasting spacecraft. The Boeing-built satellite will be used for DirecTV's direct-to-home service, specifically aiding in the expansion of HDTV offerings. [May 30]


----------



## jrodfoo

damn....hopefully still up in time for channels by labor day!


----------



## harsh

mthompso105 said:


> SpaceFlight now has just changed their post for DirectTV 10 to reflect a July 7th(GMT) liftoff


Ack phbbbt!!!

This is consistent with the ILS "Early Team" being en route. The ILS timeline indicates that DirecTV 10 will arrive in Baikonur on June 6th or 7th. If the date hasn't changed, I'm not sure what to think.


----------



## Diana C

mthompso105 said:


> SpaceFlight now has just changed their post for DirectTV 10 to reflect a July 7th(GMT) liftoff
> 
> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
> July 6/7 Proton • DirecTV 10
> Launch time: 0116 GMT on July 7 (9:16 p.m. EDT on July 6)
> Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan


And compared to the Anik F3 timeline, that makes sense. It was 4 weeks from the spacecraft/Breeze mating (which has not happened yet in the case of DirecTV-10) to launch. Assuming the mating takes place sometime this week, July 7th seems reasonable.


----------



## jrodfoo

I'm all for it not being rushed and waiting. September will be here soon enough. I hope they can have channels available in September. TBS will be the home of some baseball playoffs, I'm hoping to be watching that in HD.


----------



## RobertE

ScoBuck said:


> At least harsh is willing to concede programming from D10 by September - I can't be the only one that remembers his continuing posts about the unlikelyhood that it could be on much before DECEMBER. Always remember he chooses the negative always.


:up:


----------



## Janice805

Lauch moved to JULY???? See Spaceflight.com (launch schedule)

July 6/7 Proton • DirecTV 10
Launch time: 0116 GMT on July 7 (9:16 p.m. EDT on July 6)
Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan

An International Launch Services Proton rocket with a Breeze M upper stage will launch the DirecTV 10 broadcasting spacecraft. The Boeing-built satellite will be used for DirecTV's direct-to-home service, specifically aiding in the expansion of HDTV offerings. [May 30]


----------



## moonman

The launch facility PR still say's late June.........http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_news.asp?id=14775 left col.


----------



## Drew2k

To parpahrase Jeff .... it will launch when it is launched! See below for the rest of the sentiment ... :lol:



JeffBowser said:


> This is hillarious. It will be up and running when it is up and running. No amount of fuss and bother on this board is going to affect that one iota.


----------



## Diana C

moonman said:


> The launch facility PR still say's late June.........http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_news.asp?id=14775 left col.


That will probably be the LAST place updated.


----------



## harsh

anik posted  today that the DirecTV launch has been moved to July 7th at 1:16 zulu. This backs up the Space Flight Now report.


----------



## harsh

moonman said:


> The launch facility PR still say's late June.........http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_news.asp?id=14775 left col.


Khrunichev is the launch vehicle manufacturer.


----------



## dwrats_56

I just read this on TV Predictions. I thought the satellite was already there.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dlaunch053107.htm

DIRECTV did not issue a press release announcing a delay, nor was it available for comment this morning. But Kazakhstan Today says the launch has been rescheduled because "foreign producers of the satellite asked to reschedule the date because of its preparation and transportation to Baikonur," the site of the launch.

The exact date for the launch will be determined once the satellite arrives, the publication says.


----------



## Diana C

Well I guess "DirecTV-10" must have been in a simulator when he said the satellite was not only already there, but mated to a booster that had not yet been delivered. 

It turns out no one was being "secretive" - it was simply a case of nothing having happened yet.

Of course, I don't claim to have any "inside" knowledge (or to BE the satellite), so I must be mistaken.


----------



## loudo

Today's Sky Report is still saying June for a launch. http://www.skyreport.com/


----------



## Tom Robertson

JPL has updated their calendar--with DIRECTV10 still showing as June 20 (with an UPDATED flag dated yesterday.) http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/#0706

 It will launch when it launches. I keep telling myself that, and it sometimes helps for a few minutes.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## PoitNarf

Tom Robertson said:


> It will launch when it launches. I keep telling myself that, and it sometimes helps for a few minutes.


On the bright side, now I'll potentially be able to watch the launch on my iPhone :lol:


----------



## purtman

Tom Robertson said:


> JPL has updated their calendar--with DIRECTV10 still showing as June 20 (with an UPDATED flag dated yesterday.) http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/#0706
> 
> It will launch when it launches. I keep telling myself that, and it sometimes helps for a few minutes.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I'm with you on this one, Tibber. The NFL season begins on Sept. 9 (the Sunday games). I'm sure D* wants this sat up and running by then to avoid last year's issues, especially with CBS now offering more HD games.


----------



## RAD

purtman said:


> I'm with you on this one, Tibber. The NFL season begins on Sept. 9 (the Sunday games). I'm sure D* wants this sat up and running by then to avoid last year's issues, especially with CBS now offering more HD games.


I've seen others post thoughts like this before. How will the launch of D10 help prevent the shutdown of an existing HD channel in order for D* to carry all the NFL-ST HD games? None of the existing HD channel will be migrated to MPEG4 by then. The D* web site still says that for NFL-ST HD games all you need is the 3LNB dish.


----------



## purtman

RAD said:


> I've seen others post thoughts like this before. How will the launch of D10 help prevent the shutdown of an existing HD channel in order for D* to carry all the NFL-ST HD games? None of the existing HD channel will be migrated to MPEG4 by then. The D* web site still says that for NFL-ST HD games all you need is the 3LNB dish.


I'm assuming bandwidth will be an issue when they add three other CBS games. Last year they had to black out TNT on Sundays. Last year, CBS had just three games in HD. This season, it is increasing its HD feed to five or six (depending on how many AFC broadcasts there) games. That's a few extra.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

purtman said:


> I'm assuming bandwidth will be an issue when they add three other CBS games. Last year they had to black out TNT on Sundays. Last year, CBS had just three games in HD. This season, it is increasing its HD feed to five or six (depending on how many AFC broadcasts there) games. That's a few extra.


But what RAD is saying...

Even if the SAT is up... the existing MPEG-2 content, is not going to be migrated in time... thus you have the same bandwith restrictions as you had last year... hence certain channels/content not being available on Sundays.

Unless they split Sunday Ticket on to the different SATs (which I highly doubt they will)... you will see some of the HD networks, and other content shutdown on Sundays again this season.


----------



## purtman

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what RAD is saying...
> 
> Even if the SAT is up... the existing MPEG-2 content, is not going to be migrated in time... thus you have the same bandwith restrictions as you had last year... hence certain channels/content not being available on Sundays.
> 
> Unless they split Sunday Ticket on to the different SATs (which I highly doubt they will)... you will see some of the HD networks, and other content shutdown on Sundays again this season.


Aha ... At work and read his response quickly. Thanks, Earl!


----------



## harsh

dwrats_56 said:


> "foreign producers of the satellite asked to reschedule the date because of its preparation and transportation to Baikonur,"


It seems that if there is one universal truth, it is that Boeing will be late. Six months late isn't a Boeing record, but it does underscore the need for conservatism.

Here's the article in English.


----------



## Diana C

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what RAD is saying...
> 
> Even if the SAT is up... the existing MPEG-2 content, is not going to be migrated in time... thus you have the same bandwith restrictions as you had last year... hence certain channels/content not being available on Sundays.
> 
> Unless they split Sunday Ticket on to the different SATs (which I highly doubt they will)... you will see some of the HD networks, and other content shutdown on Sundays again this season.


All true, but if the new satellite is operating by then they may shut off TNT-HD, for example, in MPEG2, but they could always mirror in MPEG4 on the new sat. In fact, I expect that ALL the HD channels will be mirrored almost immeadiately in MPEG4 on the new satellite.


----------



## RAD

Titan25 said:


> All true, but if the new satellite is operating by then they may shut off TNT-HD, for example, in MPEG2, but they could always mirror in MPEG4 on the new sat. In fact, I expect that ALL the HD channels will be mirrored almost immeadiately in MPEG4 on the new satellite.


I can see the stink that doing that would cause. Hey, D*, give me a completly free MPEG4 upgrade so I can get the programming that I'm paying for as the MPEG4 folks get.


----------



## Dusty

RAD said:


> I can see the stink that doing that would cause. Hey, D*, give me a completly free MPEG4 upgrade so I can get the programming that I'm paying for as the MPEG4 folks get.


And they may as well just do that, as long as you agree to a new 2-year commitment. Personally, I think this scenario is quite conceivable.


----------



## PoitNarf

Titan25 said:


> In fact, I expect that ALL the HD channels will be mirrored almost immeadiately in MPEG4 on the new satellite.


I hope so, it'd be nice to get higher quality versions of the already existing HD channels as soon as D10 becomes operational.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

PoitNarf said:


> I hope so, it'd be nice to get higher quality versions of the already existing HD channels as soon as D10 becomes operational.


Well with TNT-HD... TNT has to do some more work on their side of things..


----------



## HarleyD

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well with TNT-HD... TNT has to do some more work on their side of things..


OK, how about a higher quality version of crappy source content.

Instead of merely being crap it would become *pure* crap.


----------



## veryoldschool

HarleyD said:


> OK, how about a higher quality version of crappy source content.
> Instead of merely being crap it would become *pure* crap.


Aren't the networks just about there now?


----------



## Ken984

All DirecTV needs to do is make sure anyone who has Sunday Ticket and Superfan has Mpeg4 boxes, the number of people that fall into that category is much smaller than the total number who get HD. Then they could simply put all the HD game feeds on the new sat and avoid having any issues with channels missing. 

By now the number of old HD boxes left in service has to be getting close to the point where they can just do what E* did and tell people no "new" HD on your box, you have to upgrade. 

But now that it seems the sat is going up later than originally planned they might not have time to get ready by September 9. I hope it goes up and gets in service quickly, but it is cutting it very close assuming no new delays between now and then.


----------



## Diana C

RAD said:


> I can see the stink that doing that would cause. Hey, D*, give me a completly free MPEG4 upgrade so I can get the programming that I'm paying for as the MPEG4 folks get.


If you've got a MPEG2 only HD receiver or DVR, don't they do that now (for a 2 year commitment)?

You might have to ask forcefully.


----------



## bonscott87

RAD said:


> I can see the stink that doing that would cause. Hey, D*, give me a completly free MPEG4 upgrade so I can get the programming that I'm paying for as the MPEG4 folks get.


It may cause a stink but it will happen eventually anyway once they shut down the MPEG2 HD for good.


----------



## bonscott87

Titan25 said:


> All true, but if the new satellite is operating by then they may shut off TNT-HD, for example, in MPEG2, but they could always mirror in MPEG4 on the new sat. In fact, I expect that ALL the HD channels will be mirrored almost immeadiately in MPEG4 on the new satellite.


I like that thinking a lot. That way people will have a choice to keep getting TNT or whatever other channels they have to shut down and they need to get these people an MPEG4 receiver anyway.


----------



## Smthkd

:backtotop 

So is the delay to July official now or is it still up in the air?


----------



## PoitNarf

Smthkd said:


> :backtotop
> 
> So is the delay to July official now or is it still up in the air?


Seems fairly official at this point.


----------



## purtman

Smthkd said:


> :backtotop
> 
> So is the delay to July official now or is it still up in the air?


I've seen a couple of sites listing July 7. Since there have been press releases concerning certain stages of the launch being either in process of completed, I would say that July 7 should be a fairly good estimate.


----------



## Smthkd

Thanks Guys! I hate to see it pushed back but Im optimistic! Id rather see everthing done right than not and later regret it. It seems like everything is still in order since the delay is only about 2 weeks!


----------



## loudo

Smthkd said:


> Thanks Guys! I hate to see it pushed back but Im optimistic! Id rather see everthing done right than not and later regret it. It seems like everything is still in order since the delay is only about 2 weeks!


Right, we have been waiting a couple of years for this, another week or two won't make much difference. It is better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## moonman

The launch team is getting ready to set the blog up for the D*-10 mission,
so I guess we will be getting more up to date info shortly.....
Linky....... http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/


----------



## Brent04

Maybe DirecTV thinks their lucky number is 7 for a launch date of 07/07/07.


----------



## RAD

Brent04 said:


> Maybe DirecTV thinks their lucky number is 7 for a launch date of 07/07/07.


Boeing is supposed to roll out their new 787 Dreamliner on 7/8/7.


----------



## kblair

mthompso105 said:


> The same article is at spaceflightnow.com plus they have a launch schedule at is more current than some, and it has the DirectTV 10 launch listed. I'd have put a link but I am only at lowly post#4
> Mike


July 6/7 Proton • DirecTV 10 
Launch time: 0116 GMT on July 7 (9:16 p.m. EDT on July 6)
Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan

An International Launch Services Proton rocket with a Breeze M upper stage will launch the DirecTV 10 broadcasting spacecraft. The Boeing-built satellite will be used for DirecTV's direct-to-home service, specifically aiding in the expansion of HDTV offerings. [May 30]


----------



## VeniceDre

moonman said:


> The launch team is getting ready to set the blog up for the D*-10 mission,
> so I guess we will be getting more up to date info shortly.....
> Linky....... http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/


You've been checking every day... Haven't you? 

I have been too but have gotten lazy lately.


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## RxMan1

July 7th is my birthday, so taking that information along with other facts and rumors, I would say there is a 99% chance the launch will be on my b-day.


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## Lyle Thorogood

I wonder if DirecTV 10 has better protection for this years massive solar storms (coronal mass ejections). I don't want to jinx anything, but these storms can kill satellites. I am not an expert, but I would love to know what kind of assurances this new toy will have. I would die if something happened to #10!


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## Tom Robertson

Lyle Thorogood said:


> I wonder if DirecTV 10 has better protection for this years massive solar storms (coronal mass ejections). I don't want to jinx anything, but these storms can kill satellites. I am not an expert, but I would love to know what kind of assurances this new toy will have. I would die if something happened to #10!


D10, D11, and D12 have the latest shielding from solar storms and their brains are most heavily protected (since most of the rest are inherently insensitive to the solar energy.) Boeing has learned a great many things and used them all to build our friends.

Cheers,
Tom


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## veryoldschool

Tom Robertson said:


> D10, D11, and D12 have the latest shielding from solar storms and their brains are most heavily protected (since most of the rest are inherently insensitive to the solar energy.) Boeing has learned a great many things and used them all to build our friends.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tin whiskers....!Devil_lol


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## Tom Robertson

veryoldschool said:


> Tin whiskers....!Devil_lol


Some people don't recall history very well, alas. (refering to Boeing's problems with tin whiskers on the early 702 bus models, not VOS. VOS learns from history. And often teaches us here.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## purtman

RxMan1 said:


> July 7th is my birthday, so taking that information along with other facts and rumors, I would say there is a 99% chance the launch will be on my b-day.


We hope Tony Romo isn't holding the parts and putting them in.:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## uncrules

purtman said:


> We hope Tony Romo isn't holding the parts and putting them in.:lol: :lol: :lol:


Now that was just plain mean! :lol:


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## Indiana627

RxMan1 said:


> July 7th is my birthday, so taking that information along with other facts and rumors, I would say there is a 99% chance the launch will be on my b-day.


That's my brother's birthday too, so it must be a good sign!


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## MikeR7

Brent04 said:


> Maybe DirecTV thinks their lucky number is 7 for a launch date of 07/07/07.


My son was born on 7/7/77.

He isn't very lucky though.:lol:


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## harsh

MikeR7 said:


> He isn't very lucky though.:lol:


You just can't pick your parents...


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## dervari

I'm not sure I'd trust this thing to take up a monkey.

http://www.ilslaunch.com/aboutus/

You would think they'd have a more flattering shot of their premier rocket.


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## MikeR7

dervari said:


> I'm not sure I'd trust this thing to take up a monkey.
> 
> http://www.ilslaunch.com/aboutus/
> 
> You would think they'd have a more flattering shot of their premier rocket.


I don't think what it looks like matters much. I care more about their success rate, which must be pretty good with a backlog of orders as they have.:hurah:


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## MikeR7

harsh said:


> You just can't pick your parents...


Thats true, if he were lucky he would have been born to a family with a titanium account!!:hurah:


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## Tom Robertson

RxMan1 said:


> July 7th is my birthday, so taking that information along with other facts and rumors, I would say there is a 99% chance the launch will be on my b-day.


Well, the _current_ scheduled date is July 6th in the US. But another delay is possible. I hope it does not delay!

Cheers,
Tom


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## Dusty

Shouldn't we change the title of this thread? Put a strike line through June 20 and add the new July 6th date after that.


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## Tom Robertson

Done. (sniff)


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## Nick

SkyReport:


> How things can change in just one day. Earlier this week, reports from around the globe noted how the Proton-M rocket scheduled to launch DIRECTV's newest satellite had arrived at the launch site in Kazakhstan. But now, according to the news agency Kazakhstan Today, the launch of DIRECTV-10, originally set for June 20, has been postponed until sometime in July.
> 
> Kazakhstan Today reported that DIRECTV's plans to launch the new satellite were forced to change due to "foreign producers of the satellite ask(ing) to reschedule the date because of its preparation and transportation" to the launch site in Baikonur. The agency said an exact date for the launch would be determined once the satellite actually arrives.
> 
> DIRECTV-10 is the first of two satellites the DBS giant plans on launching to greatly expand its high-definition capacity. The satcaster has said once DIRECTV-10 and DIRECTV-11 are orbited, the company will have the ability to broadcast 1,500 local and 150 national HD channels.
> 
> As of press time, DIRECTV had not returned SkyREPORT's request for comment.


www.SkyReport.com - used with permission


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## lwilli201

"foreign producers of the satellite"  :lol:


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## moonman

lwilli201 said:


> "foreign producers of the satellite"  :lol:


---------
AKA: Boeing...They are responsible for delivery on ground(DOG) of the Sat.


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## lwilli201

moonman said:


> ---------
> AKA: Boeing...They are responsible for delivery on ground(DOG) of the Sat.


I know that. Just strange how they reported it.


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## Herdfan

Earl Bonovich said:


> Even if the SAT is up... the existing MPEG-2 content, is not going to be migrated in time... thus you have the same bandwith restrictions as you had last year... hence certain channels/content not being available on Sundays.
> 
> Unless they split Sunday Ticket on to the different SATs (which I highly doubt they will)... you will see some of the HD networks, and other content shutdown on Sundays again this season.


At least this year NASCAR on TNT won't be a problem as it moves to ABC/ESPN starting with the Brickyard 400 in August.


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## Cobra

Herdfan said:


> At least this year NASCAR on TNT won't be a problem as it moves to ABC/ESPN starting with the Brickyard 400 in August.


actually, tnt will have some nascar races this year, starting next week at Pocono:nono2:


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## Happy Camper

D* almost always eventually does what they forecast, just usually later than they first thought. Whether it's D*'s fault or not, anyone who believes D* developments will happen when the PR guys first forecast has not learned from history.

We hedge our bets. We have both FIOS and D*. FIOS has right now (everything currently broadcasting anyway) the HD which D* promises in the future, and D* has better sports and better DVRs. D* will get there, just slowly and with more hysterical speculation by D* fans.

Never ever surprised here to hear of a D* delay, whomever caused it.


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## Happy Camper

Harsh's 'Attack Basset' puppy is one of the greatest of all time avatars. No matter what the D* White Knight excuse of the day is, that little dog always makes me smile.

We have Beagles (compared to Bassets, sort of like FIOS is when compared to D*-a smaller, but still lovable, version, and eats less)


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## Nick

Happy Camper said:


> ...We have Beagles (compared to Bassets, sort of like FIOS is when compared to D*-a smaller, but still lovable, version, and eats less)


More like E* compared to D* -- smaller, eats le$$ and _poops_ less. :lol:


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## ScoBuck

Happy Camper said:


> D* almost always eventually does what they forecast, just usually later than they first thought. Whether it's D*'s fault or not, anyone who believes D* developments will happen when the PR guys first forecast has not learned from history.
> 
> We hedge our bets. We have both FIOS and D*. FIOS has right now (everything currently broadcasting anyway) the HD which D* promises in the future, and D* has better sports and better DVRs. D* will get there, just slowly and with more hysterical speculation by D* fans.
> 
> Never ever surprised here to hear of a D* delay, whomever caused it.


The fact is that while DirecTV never promised or committed to a specific satellite launch date - only to their expectation of providing the 100 channel capacity by end of 2007 - they are STILL ON SCHEDULE TO DO THAT according to most information that I have read. A 16 day (or even a 90 day launch delay) would still allow them to reach orbit, and have the sat up and running before EOY.

Yes, there are D* fans (heck if I was a fan of another provider why would I be their customer?) - why would I pay over a hundred dollars a month to a company if I though another was better for me?

I expect people to be fans of whatever they feel is best for them actually. And I also would expect that those 'fans' would be excited about what is coming shortly.


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## veryoldschool

Nick said:


> More like E* compared to D* -- smaller, eats le$$ and _poops_ less. :lol:


Now if we could get less "poop" here we'd be set.


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## purtman

Happy Camper said:


> .... FIOS has right now (everything currently broadcasting anyway) the HD which D* promises in the future ...


Are you sure about this statement? How many HD stations does FIOS have?


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## loudo

purtman said:


> Are you sure about this statement? How many HD stations does FIOS have?


They show only 19 on their web site, plus locals. A long way from the 100 D* plans to have. FIOS doesn't impress me, they are just another cable company.


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## Jeremy W

loudo said:


> They show only 19 on their web site, plus locals. A long way from the 100 D* plans to have.


FIOS has practically every HD network available today. Most of the channels DirecTV will be launching aren't available yet.


loudo said:


> FIOS doesn't impress me, they are just another cable company.


They are a "cable company" with a better network than any actual cable company has.


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## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> FIOS has practically every HD network available today. Most of the channels DirecTV will be launching aren't available yet.
> 
> They are a "cable company" with a better network than any actual cable company has.


"Fiber" is their strong point over "cable". Fiber has way more bandwidth than "copper".


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## uncrules

According to this post from avsforum, Fios doesn't have A&E-HD, Mojo (INHD), the Versus/Golf Channel HD combo and of course the Voom stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4022698&&#post4022698


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## Tom Robertson

So are we running FIOS up to the satellite today? :backtotop:

Thanks,
Tom


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## Nick

SkyReport:


> DIRECTV has confirmed that the launch of its newest satellite - DIRECTV-10 - will be postponed, but the reasons behind the delay are not as clear.
> 
> Last week, the foreign news agency Kazakhstan Today reported that despite the Proton-M rocket scheduled to orbit DIRECTV-10 being delivered to the launch site, satellite manufacturer issues were forcing the launch to be postponed. The news source said an exact date for the launch would be determined once the satellite arrived in Kazakhstan.
> 
> DIRECTV Director of Public Relations Robert Mercer confirmed to SkyREPORT on Friday that the launch of DIRECTV-10 had indeed been postponed. The company spokesman said the satellite would be rescheduled to launch on July 6 and "will not affect our HD roll out" plans.
> 
> As to why DIRECTV-10 was being delayed, Eric Warren, spokesman for Boeing - the satellite's manufacturer - told SkyREPORT that the company was performing "additional testing" on the spacecraft. "The tests were successfully completed and the launch campaign is proceeding," he said.


www.SkyReport.com - used with permission


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## grate88

Interesting. I had mentioned a while back that a neighbor of mine works on the sat launch team for directv.

I don't speak to him much, but the other day I saw him and had not read about the delays so I said. It's getting close to launch I hear. and he replied. Yes, we're back on track now. Wasn't sure what that meant at the time...

So I'm hoping the article is correct, problem rectified, July launch.


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## Herdfan

Cobra said:


> actually, tnt will have some nascar races this year, starting next week at Pocono:nono2:


Yes they will, but my point was it won't matter (to NASCAR fans) if they take TNT-HD off the air for ST since NASCAR will have moved to ABC/ESPN by football season.


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## dwrats_56

Yipee!!!! Positive comments posted today.

http://www.ilslaunch.com/blog/


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## P Smith

Lucky those ppl - they're welcomed by fireworks !


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## loudo

Cobra said:


> actually, tnt will have some nascar races this year, starting next week at Pocono:nono2:


Sure wish they would leave the races to FOX, they do so much better with the races than the others. TNT will probably give us their stretched picture, like a lot of their movies are, and we will see little fat race cars. 
:uglyhamme


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## uncrules

loudo said:


> Sure wish they would leave the races to FOX, they do so much better with the races than the others. TNT will probably give us their stretched picture, like a lot of their movies are, and we will see little fat race cars.
> :uglyhamme


Fox is better than TNT but the ABC/ESPN coverage prior to Fox getting the broadcast rights was better the Fox coverage that replaced it.


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## P Smith

Can you guys open new thread about ground racing ? Please ?


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## davring

Pocono? New launch site?


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## Earl Bonovich

I think this particular thread has run it's corse.

Let's regroup, and continue the discussion in the DirecTV 10's BLOG thread.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88850

And discuss it's progress as it continues.


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