# WMAR-DT (Balitmore-ABC) showing wrong guide data.



## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

For the last couple of days, Dish's mapping of guide data for WMAR-DT (Balitmore ABC) OTA has been screwed up for me. Both my 811 & 942 are showing guide data for a PBS station on 2.1 instead of WMAR's correct guide data.

This was working correctly since WMAR was moved from 105 to 110, but since this past weekend, something happened, and Dish is mapping data from a PBS station (not sure which one).

Is anyone else seeing this? And who would I contact to correct it? It is screwing up my 942 timers, as I tend to keep my OTA pointed at Baltimore since Harrisburg doesn't have a WB station.

thanks.


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## AcuraCL (Dec 12, 2005)

Wow. I noticed that too ... figured it was the usual guide corruption and I'd be rebooting shortly. But it's been going on for a few days.


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

I have the same problem. A real pain if you want to record something.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I've seen the same thing on my 622. I've emailed [email protected] and reported it. I'd suggest you also email to lend a bit of weight to this complaint.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Update - Dish fixed the listings, 2.1 is now showing the correct WMAR listings.
I guess the email requests for fixing actually worked this time.


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## AcuraCL (Dec 12, 2005)

Wow. I never realized Cyclone had such power


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

PBS is back  
how hard can it be to keep the correct guide data...


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

sent an email to dishquality, got a reply back that pretty much put the blame on WMAR, which is incorrect since Dish doesn't use PSIP.



> Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network. The dishquality email box is received by the Quality Assurance department; we only handle picture quality issues. Unfortunately we are not involved with billing, customer service, OTA information, contracts or restitution of payments. However, since this is OTA we recommend that you contact the provider (WMAR) directly.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

FYI, this is still an issue. Dish's guide for 2-1 Baltimore switches back and forth between the correct info and the bad several times a day, but it is usually the wrong (PBS station) data. Ridiculous! Here's my email to Dish:

Your guide data is constantly switching from right to wrong and back again
all day for over-the-air local 2-1 in Baltimore. Some hours of the day,
channel 2-1 (WMAR in Baltimore) is correct and some hours it shows data
from a PBS station. It switches back and forth all the time, but most of
the time it shows completely incorrect guide data, and it is NOT the fault
of the station but rather your guide data coming from the satellite. This
is Dish's responsibility since you do not pass the PSIP information for
these stations and you carry this information on the satellite instead. 
Please fix this as it makes recording from a DVR much more difficult! So
far, my transition from DirecTV to Dish has been smooth except for getting
Dish to admit responsibility for this item and fix it. Of course, for
local stations, it would be best to pass the PSIP data from the local
station anyway, but since you insist on stripping that data and using your
own, at least get it right!

I'm hoping the above email will get them going but I doubt it. I had two calls to Dish yesterday about this and everyone I talked to was completely clueless and claimed that the bad information was coming from the WMAR PSIP, even though Dish strips that information, refuses to use it, and passes their own (bogus in this instance) data via the satellite. Someone somewhere at Dish has programmed something wrong and the guide keeps reverting to the wrong/PBS info. They seem to "fix" it once or twice a day but it just reverts back, so they obviously aren't fixing it at the source/permanently! Looks to me like the keep trying to bandaid it and the bandaid keeps coming off.

Mike


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

This was the last thing I heard from Dish about the issue on June 22nd.



> Dear Mr. XXXXX,
> 
> We believe we may have figured out this issue. We have forwarded your email off to the appropriate team. We understand they will be giving you a call soon. Let us know if you do not hear from them in one week.
> 
> ...


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

I sent an email to the director of engineering at WMAR explaining the issue and with a link to this thread. I think WMAR and ABC would have a vested interest in Dish screwing up the guide like that! Maybe they will have more pull than the lowly customer.  

Mike


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

A week later and look at this well-informed reply I got from Dish Network:

*"Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network.
The dishquality email box is received by the Quality Assurance department;
we only handle picture quality issues. We have forwarded your concerns to
the appropriate department. They can not find any problems on our side. 
They suggest you try using a directional antenna and/or repositioning to
reduce interference."*

Hooray! It looks like none of the help at Dish has got the slightest clue! 

Mike


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

A new email from Dish Network earlier today.



Dish Network said:


> Dear Mr. XXXXX,
> 
> Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network. The dishquality email box is received by the Quality Assurance department; we only handle picture quality issues. We have forwarded your concerns to the appropriate department. They can not find any problems on our side. They suggest you try using a directional antenna and/or repositioning to reduce interference.
> 
> ...


My replay



Derwin0 said:


> What is the appropriate department to send my email to?
> The problem is not my antenna, it is with both my 811 and 942 mapping the wrong data for WMAR-DT.
> Several others that I know of have the same problem.


Dish Network's reply a couple hours later.



Dish Network said:


> Dear Mr. XXXXX,
> 
> We ran this through the team again. They think they may have found the problem. WMAR was good; however, there was another issue. They think they may have a solution. If you do not notice a difference in one week will you notify us again?
> 
> ...


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

I got the EXACT same two replies yesterday, word for word. I received the second one about reporting after one week after I sent them a screen "snap" showing the dislink between 02-00 and 02-01 and telling them that I had forwarded them to the director of engineering at WMAR (who has been replying and is very interested). I told Dish that I suspect that WMAR, ABC, and the FCC would be very interested in their inability to solve this problem as well as Dish's policy of stripping FCC mandated PSIP EPG information. Maybe this time they'll get it? I'm not holding my breath as it has been what, three months?

Mike


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

I don't believe that the FCC mandates PSIP data to be used, they only mandate that stations send it out.
Dish really doesn't strip anything out, they just only use that part that identifies the station.
They then use the "WMAR" indentifier to map their own guide data for WMAR into the 2-1 slot.
Somehow they are seeing another station's identifier instead and mapping that stations data into 2-1. Once in a blue moon they see the actual WMAR identifier and we get WMAR data, but that usually only lasts a couple hours.

If the 811 still showed the original stations channel in red from where the guide data is from, I could see what channel was being mapped. But since that was removed ages ago, I can't do anything to tell what channel is really being mapped to 2-1. For all we know, that PBS station could be sending out an incorrect indentifier calling itself WMAR.


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

derwin0 said:


> I don't believe that the FCC mandates PSIP data to be used, they only mandate that stations send it out.
> Dish really doesn't strip anything out, they just only use that part that identifies the station.
> They then use the "WMAR" indentifier to map their own guide data for WMAR into the 2-1 slot.
> Somehow they are seeing another station's identifier instead and mapping that stations data into 2-1. Once in a blue moon they see the actual WMAR identifier and we get WMAR data, but that usually only lasts a couple hours.
> ...


According to my contact at WMAR, the FCC does mandate that PSIP EPG data be transmitted but as you pointed out, I'm not sure if the FCC mandates that devices that can receive that signal must also receive the PSIP EPG. I have also noticed what you did: that the guide data is occasionally correct. I find that some evenings about 5:30pm the data is correct but move an hour or two from that time and it goes bogus again. It is also possible that some PBS station is broadcasting incorrect PSIP header info identifying themselves as WMAR, but even if that's the case, it shouldn't be an issue because if they are doing this, they are broadcasting that PSIP information on a different frequency. If Dish was picking up the PSIP guide information from channel OTA 52-1 as they should be (and as all other OTA receivers do), it wouldn't be an issue.

I do believe that the FCC also requires proper compliance with the "v-chip" specification and I believe this problem is a major issue on that front. As an example, I have two young children and I have their receiver set up so that it only picks up children-rated shows. This guide issue is a concern because with improper guide information on that 02-01 channel, they turn to what the guide says is "Clifford's Puppy Days" and end up watching "General Hospital" or worse, some documentary on 9/11. For that, I am *certain* they are not in compliance with FCC rules!

Mike


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Using a search trick for the 811, I found out that the guide data that is being shown on 2-1 is for WMAW channel 9308. Which is the PBS channel for Meridian, MS.

Could WMAR's PSIP be incorrectly identifying itself as WMAW, therefore confusing the recievers and mapping down WMAW instead of WMAR?
My TV though is identifying 2-1 as WMAR-HD. Both of my recievers (811 & 942) also call it that, so more likely something on Dish's end of things.


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

derwin0 said:


> Using a search trick for the 811, I found out that the guide data that is being shown on 2-1 is for WMAW channel 9308. Which is the PBS channel for Meridian, MS.
> 
> Could WMAR's PSIP be incorrectly identifying itself as WMAW, therefore confusing the recievers and mapping down WMAW instead of WMAR?
> My TV though is identifying 2-1 as WMAR-HD. Both of my recievers (811 & 942) also call it that, so more likely something on Dish's end of things.


Yeah, sounds more likely a Dish problem. If they simply passed the PSIP EPG data, this would not be an issue (since we can't pick up a Michigan station anyway). It all depends on the coding they use to get the guide data. To me, since they only support the "-1" subchannels anyway, it would make a lot more sense to just copy the "-0" guide data over to the "-1" subchannel if the "-0" exists in the guide. I cannot think of a single instance where that would not work. Edit: I mean, of course, do this on the receiver end. That would obviously require a firmware update to all receivers though, so I'm sure they can fix this a lot easier than doing a 02-00 --> 02-01 copy on the receiver. They probably just need to modify the logic used to get the guide data, but this is just another example of why they shouldn't be stripping the PSIP EPG to begin with! The only reason they do it is to try to screw their customers out of $6.00 a month just to pay for guide data that should be free! This is the one thing that has tainted my D* to E* switch. Dish, please stop screwing your customers by removing the PSIP information just to squeeze a few more bucks a month out of people that can receive OTA signals!

Mike


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

One major problem with passing PSIP EPG data though, it will screw up the name based recording of the 942 and 622, as all stations don't use the same info that Dish does. Some use TVGuide, some use zap2it, some use something else.

btw, MS=Mississippi


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

derwin0 said:


> One major problem with passing PSIP EPG data though, it will screw up the name based recording of the 942 and 622, as all stations don't use the same info that Dish does. Some use TVGuide, some use zap2it, some use something else.
> 
> btw, MS=Mississippi


Never bothered DirecTV. The HR10-250 has been using PSIP and could display PSIP data for all digital OTA stations for years and it worked perfectly on those channels as a DVR.

Mike


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

This morning the guide data is correct. This is the first time I've seen correct guide data for 02-01 in the morning. Keeping my fingers crossed...

Mike


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

Two days now and the guide data is still correct. Maybe after three months, they've finally fixed it!  I'm still not too happy about them stripping the PSIP EPG data from sub channels higher than the first subchannel since the FCC mandates that stations send that info. But at this point, I'll take what I can get.  

Mike


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

It was correct for me tonight too. But it has fixed its self for only a few hours in the past, and then it went right back to whatever PBS ch it was mapping.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Who knows, maybe my detective work at finding that it was mapping WMA*W* instead of WMA*R* gave them just enough clue to fix the real problem.

But then again, I'm not holding my breath. This weekend I'll be putting up a VHF only antenna pointed to Harrisburg so I can record off WHTM in case WMAR screws up again.


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

derwin0 said:


> Who knows, maybe my detective work at finding that it was mapping WMA*W* instead of WMA*R* gave them just enough clue to fix the real problem.


Either that or my mentioning ABC and the FCC and getting the director of engineering at WMAR involved... or some combination. I think what Dish needed was enough people pushing hard enough and staying with it holding their feet to the fire. From what I can tell, no one has done that until we started our recent communications with them.

It does look like it is fixed though. I've checked it a dozen times over the last 48 hours and it has been correct every time. Before this week, it would only be correct for an hour or two in the evening and then it'd go right back. Keeping my fingers crossed... :sure:

Mike


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