# Disapointing SD scaler



## rs2762 (Apr 24, 2007)

Hi all,

I just got a VIP 622 (and new Dish service) over the weekend and I like the HD quality for many of the channels. However, I'm less impressed with the VIP 622's internal scaler. I paid a bunch of money for an HDTV with good SD scaling, but the VIP 622 insists on doing the scaling itself. Badly. Is there any way around that? I would like for it to send 480i or 480p video when an SD source is playing, and 1080i when HD is playing. 

I've searched the forum for an answer to this problem but couldn't find one. 

Setup:
- VIP 622 connected to Sony 52" XBR2 HDTV via 35' HDMI cable from monoprice.

Thanks in advance!
-Ray


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s rs2762. What your are looking for is what is usually called native pass through and it is a feature the 622 currently does not support. Dish did mention adding it to the 622 during a tech chat a while back, but there has not been anything other than the mention in terms of it being demoed anywhere. 

Some users have passed svideo into there TVs and have achieve better scaling but there is no way to achieve what you are saying automatically through component or HDMI. Well you could do this through macros on a universal remote that it would be cumbersome and by no means automatic which I think one would want.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Run an S-Video cable (and audio) from the 622 to your TV's inputs. When you're watching a 480i/p program, switch to the S-Video input on your TV. Convenient ?? Not really.... Worth the difference in PQ ?? Maybe....


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## rs2762 (Apr 24, 2007)

Hall said:


> Run an S-Video cable (and audio) from the 622 to your TV's inputs. When you're watching a 480i/p program, switch to the S-Video input on your TV. Convenient ?? Not really.... Worth the difference in PQ ?? Maybe....


Thanks for the suggestion. It may be hard for me to do that since I've already run all my cables through the floor and walls from my equipment closet to the TV. I'll try if I can borrow a cable from Radio Shack or something. (borrow = buy/try/return) If it works, I'll have to pull some more cable through the wall. Yuck.

Why can't technology be perfect? The VIP 622 comes so close... *sigh*

Thanks again,
Ray


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

rs2762 said:


> Why can't technology be perfect? The VIP 622 comes so close... *sigh*
> 
> Thanks again,
> Ray


IMHO the only perfect technology is a toaster and it's over a hundred years old.

-Funk


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

thefunks67 said:


> IMHO the only perfect technology is a toaster and it's over a hundred years old.
> 
> -Funk


Hard to keep clean of crumbs, and sometimes it sticks and doesn't pop up the toast. So not 100% technology there either


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

Crumbs do not affect the performance of the toaster. My B&D toaster pops the toast everytime, and it is 3 years old. 

I have a 65" HDTV and there are certain channels where the SD is C-, but for the most part I would give the SD picture coming from E* a B+. I am using a 6' component cable from the 622 to my TV.

-Funk


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

thefunks67 said:


> Crumbs do not affect the performance of the toaster. My B&D toaster pops the toast everytime, and it is 3 years old.
> 
> I have a 65" HDTV and there are certain channels where the SD is C-, but for the most part I would give the SD picture coming from E* a B+. I am using a 6' component cable from the 622 to my TV.
> 
> -Funk


I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.


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## marius (Dec 5, 2006)

I got a pioneer plasma with a very good internal scaler, and the PQ difference between 622/hdmi and plasma/svideo is night and day (svideo is way better) on SD content.


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## johnsbin (Nov 14, 2002)

lujan said:


> I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.


That's because you are not using a good toaster.

Check this one:

http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-CTH2...?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1177427308&sr=8-20

Perfect toast, every time!


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

johnsbin said:


> That's because you are not using a good toaster.
> 
> Check this one:
> 
> ...


I added it to my wishlist. Thanks. Now we can start talking about the 622.:lol:


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

johnsbin said:


> That's because you are not using a good toaster.
> 
> Check this one:
> 
> ...


The toaster cost to much and will increase the price for our viewers so at this time we will not offer the toaster untill we can get a better prize(maybe the prize will be a a vip622??):hurah:


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

lujan said:


> I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.


Have you tried toasting on top of your 622?


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

Maybe you guys haven't received the 4.03 toaster upgrade. It made my toaster work perfect every time! It even burns "HF" into my high fiber bread so I know its high fiber... Be sure to leave your toasters plugged in tonight to receive the upgrade!


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

I am sorry I ever mentioned a toaster and got this thread hijacked. :grin: I was just trying to add some levity to the question that was asked as the question seems to be asked a lot.

Perhaps a USB port could be used to off load the crumbs directly to a HDD enclosure making for easy clean up?

-Funk


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yeah guys... wonder off here a bit for sure.. Was hoping it would wonder back on... So lets get back on topic.... If you want to continue to discuss high tech toasters, please take it to the OT forums where the topic could be more fully discussed.


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## podder320 (Mar 4, 2007)

rs2762 said:


> ...the VIP 622 insists on doing [SD-to-HD] scaling itself. Badly.


Check out a thread I started here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81461

Go to the mid-to-end of the thread for a SOLUTION that has worked for me: the SWAP button.

The ViP622 has two internal MPEG decoder paths to support two TVs (in Multi mode) or Picture-in-Picture (in Single mode). On my unit, one of the decoders has an SD-to-HD scaling bug which the other does not. I know it sounds unlikely that they would act differently, but that's the behavior I see.

If you use your TV in "Single mode," you can use the SWAP button (without Picture-in-Picture active) to flip between the two decoders. So try this: tune the 622 to an SD channel, then hit SWAP and tune the other decoder to the same channel. If you flip back and forth, does one look better than the other? If so, you're seeing the same thing I am and now you know the same solution: when you see bad SD, use SWAP to switch to the other decoder.

The problem I'm talking about shows up most clearly in static (non-moving) text and other areas with smooth, sharp-edged curves, but once you notice it you can see it everywhere. There are screen shots in that other thread demonstrating the problem. Hope this helps.


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## rs2762 (Apr 24, 2007)

podder320 said:


> If you use your TV in "Single mode," you can use the SWAP button (without Picture-in-Picture active) to flip between the two decoders. So try this: tune the 622 to an SD channel, then hit SWAP and tune the other decoder to the same channel. If you flip back and forth, does one look better than the other? If so, you're seeing the same thing I am and now you know the same solution: when you see bad SD, use SWAP to switch to the other decoder.


Wow - amazing! I could see the difference immediately. Thanks for the tip!

-Ray


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Gah I can't believe they don't fix that field-ordering bug. Assuming it's a software problem, it's gotta be just one or two lines of code that are wrong. It would be a heck of a lot easier than adding native resolution passthrough, even though most of us still desire it...


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Since I run in dual-mode, I can't do the "swap" trick, so I'm considering running an S-Video cable, in addition to the component cables, to my TV, using one of the add'l inputs. Problem is, how do I get sound ?? My receiver is connected to my AV receiver via optical, but we only use the AV receiver for movies or some HD programs.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

RCA cables will give you the sound. Just don't use the composite video cable. Run the svideo and the two audio composite 622 outputs to your tv. If you need them for both component and svideo. Get 2 RCA splitters and split the audio.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

The RCA audio outs are already taken so I'd need a splitter. I'd already thought of something like that but didn't like the idea.... not to mention I don't feel like making a trip to RS or similar for something like that at the moment. Just for kicks, I'm gonna try a plain old coaxial cable. I'll get video and audio in one. Granted, the PQ will suffer, but I'm still curious what it will look like. I can definitely do a side-by-side comparison and in fact, can do PIP via the TV to compare.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Maybe I won't try a coaxial cable..... 

I did use an S-Video and turned on the AV receiver. I must not have pushed the S-Video cable in far enough or it's a bad one 'cause it's black & white right now. I can tell one thing though even in B&W: The PQ is definitely improved !


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## podder320 (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes, SD PQ over S-Video is way better than composite. But I wouldn't necessarily give up on component or HDMI just yet.

The problem I'm seeing doesn't happen with the 622 set to output 720p. So if you're willing to switch modes for SD viewing vs. HD viewing, then you're all set: tell the 622 to output 1080i for HD content, and change it to output 720p when you want to watch SD content. This "mode change" means walking through a couple of menus, but it is similar to what you already seem to be willing to put up with and it saves you the extra wiring. 

Or: try watching both HD and SD at 720p and see what you think - maybe you would be happy without switching modes at all! Some HD is 720 anyway; some is 1080i but depending on the program and your TV you might not notice much difference.

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, you might temporarily go to single mode and use SWAP. Who knows? Maybe you can jiggle the 622 just right so the "good" decoder is the one that feeds your TV1 when you switch back to dual mode!


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

I can switch to my S-Video input with 2 pushes on my remote. How many does it take to switch output resolution on the 622, 5-6 or more ??


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## skassan (Jan 10, 2004)

Hall said:


> I can switch to my S-Video input with 2 pushes on my remote. How many does it take to switch output resolution on the 622, 5-6 or more ??


One. Universal remotes with macros are wonderful things.


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