# A Call from Dish (Audit Team)



## sulaco1997 (Mar 11, 2006)

Dish network called and need the numbers off all my recievers. Strange. The caller said they need to confirm numbers with every account. Am I the only one to get this call?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

sulaco1997 said:


> Dish network called and need the numbers off all my recievers. Strange. The caller said they need to confirm numbers with every account. Am I the only one to get this call?


no, plenty of people get the call. It is the receiver audit team, they call ramdom customer to make sure people aren't "stacking" with a neighbor or "hiding" a receiver at a cabin or on an rv or boat. Best to call them back when you are at home and they will ask you to go to each receiver and read them some numbers. If you don't have a receiver at the house, they will disable it and it won't be usable.


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## sulaco1997 (Mar 11, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> no, plenty of people get the call. It is the receiver audit team, they call ramdom customer to make sure people aren't "stacking" with a neighbor or "hiding" a receiver at a cabin or on an rv or boat. Best to call them back when you are at home and they will ask you to go to each receiver and read them some numbers. If you don't have a receiver at the house, they will disable it and it won't be usable.


Thanks. That's exactly what happened.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

no problem. Did you end up getting any shut down?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Prior discussion was in this thread. If further comments need to be made, they can be made here.


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## Hoxxx (Jun 19, 2004)

sulaco1997 said:


> Thanks. That's exactly what happened.


that's exactly what happened with me. I had a IRD at the cabin and was forced to shut it down. this happend to me last summer. when the upgrade rebate was offered for the new MPG4 IRD's I was turned down because I was miss-using Dsihnetwork. I was told I could go pay full retail and they would be happy to keep me as a custommer. So I canceled and went to D* and took advantage of the new customer offers. so now I have 3 HD IRD's 
2 MPG4 and 1 MPG2 DVR all for less than one IRD upgrade at E*. I am happy so far and I trully believe the picture quality is better at D*. the csr also told me to expect lots of new HD programing this year.

I do miss my Voom channels though


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Hoxxx said:


> ... I am happy so far and I trully believe the picture quality is better at D*. ...


While considering a possible switch to D* to take advantage of "New Subscriber" offers I decided not to do so because existing subscribers' complaints about poor picture quality compared to E*.

Just an aside, why are you continuing to post on a E* forum extolling the virtues of D*? Would think you'd be on a D* forum bad-mouthing E*. :lol:


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

sulaco1997 said:


> Dish network called and need the numbers off all my recievers. Strange. The caller said they need to confirm numbers with every account. Am I the only one to get this call?


And they sure ain't "Good luck."

They've never called, but the day they do, I bid adieu to DISH. (8 Years as a customer)


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

UTFAN said:


> And they sure ain't "Good luck."
> 
> They've never called, but the day they do, I bid adieu to DISH. (8 Years as a customer)


well, as long as you aren't cheating them somehow, you don't have anything to worry about, but if you are cheating them, then they probably be more than happy to bid adieu to you!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hoxxx said:


> So I canceled and went to D* and took advantage of the new customer offers. so now I have 3 HD IRD's 2 MPG4 and 1 MPG2 DVR all for less than one IRD upgrade at E*. I am happy so far and I trully believe the picture quality is better at D*.


Hopefully for you the MPEG4 DVR lease drive-off fee will drop substantially from the current $499.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

Slamminc11 said:


> no, plenty of people get the call. It is the receiver audit team, they call ramdom customer to make sure people aren't "stacking" with a neighbor or "hiding" a receiver at a cabin or on an rv or boat. Best to call them back when you are at home and they will ask you to go to each receiver and read them some numbers. If you don't have a receiver at the house, they will disable it and it won't be usable.


Could there possibly be a less efficient way of doing this in this day and age?


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

> Hoxxx said:
> 
> 
> > that's exactly what happened with me. I had a IRD at the cabin and was forced to shut it down. this happend to me last summer. when the upgrade rebate was offered for the new MPG4 IRD's I was turned down because I was miss-using Dsihnetwork. I was told I could go pay full retail and they would be happy to keep me as a custommer. So I canceled and went to D* and took advantage of the new customer offers. so now I have 3 HD IRD's
> ...


If you have a 622 non lease box PM me. I'm in the market for one.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

John W said:


> Could there possibly be a less efficient way of doing this in this day and age?


What would you suggest?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Slamminc11 said:


> It is the receiver audit team, they call ramdom customer to make sure people aren't "stacking" with a neighbor or "hiding" a receiver at a cabin or on an rv or boat.


The customers they call are not completely random. The target (based on reports in the forums) are customers with a high number of receivers who have not connected all of their receivers to a working phone line. (If you never want to hear from the audit team make sure that your receivers are all connected to the same working phone line - that is the easiest way to get out of their sight.)

E* has the audit team because of those customers who have decided to defraud E* by sharing (stacking) accounts. Stackers generally have multiple receivers that are not connected to the same phone line. The more you look like those thieves, the more likely you will be asked the questions.

Connect your receivers to a phone line. Test the connection from time to time to make sure that it hasn't been bumped loose. If you don't, expect the call.

BTW: Newer receivers will use "DishCOMM" to link the receivers within a household ... meaning only one receiver needs to be connected to a phone line, not all. Multi-tuner receivers also help since they can serve multiple rooms - less receivers means a less chance that the customer is stacking.


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## Hoxxx (Jun 19, 2004)

Quite simple I scan this forum and reply to topics that interest me. since it was dealing with the same thing I went through I felt I had to input.
I try not to bad mouth anyone just stating the facts.



SaltiDawg said:


> While considering a possible switch to D* to take advantage of "New Subscriber" offers I decided not to do so because existing subscribers' complaints about poor picture quality compared to E*.
> 
> Just an aside, why are you continuing to post on a E* forum extolling the virtues of D*? Would think you'd be on a D* forum bad-mouthing E*. :lol:


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## ashu (Mar 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> Connect your receivers to a phone line.


What is thie 'phone line' thing you speak of? I looked around my house but could find no such thing.

That said, hopefull their ewer receivers will receive some kind of smarter firmware to enable the network ports or something. Maybe, once they've payed obeisance to TiVo, they'll get some good programming to use to improve their cruddy UIs! :hurah:


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

Slamminc11 said:


> well, as long as you aren't cheating them somehow, you don't have anything to worry about, but if you are cheating them, then they probably be more than happy to bid adieu to you!


I'm not cheating, in fact the installer can look at our receivers when he hooks up our 622 this coming week.

Just my opinion, but it all smacks of big brother. :nono2:


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## Dang The Hung (May 8, 2005)

Slamminc11 said:


> well, as long as you aren't cheating them somehow, you don't have anything to worry about, but if you are cheating them, then they probably be more than happy to bid adieu to you!


I never keep my receivers hooked up to a phone line and always leave my receivers powered on. My receivers never dialed out and never updated software. Because of this, the receivers were showing the wrong receiver ID's and when I received a call from the Gestapo Audit Team I read the numbers as asked and was failed.

It took me a better part of a month of going up the corporate latter and filing a complaint with the BBB before Dish tried to make amends. I now spend less money with them because I downgraded some of my programming packages and only keep 2 receivers instead of 4. As soon as Direct gets the ball rolling on their HD, I am ditching Dish. They can take their new customer harrassment project and shove it.

At best, their gestapo tactics might very well fetch them a lawsuit.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Dang The Hung said:


> I never keep my receivers hooked up to a phone line and always leave my receivers powered on. My receivers never dialed out and never updated software. Because of this, the receivers were showing the wrong receiver ID's and when I received a call from the Gestapo Audit Team I read the numbers as asked and was failed.
> 
> It took me a better part of a month of going up the corporate latter and filing a complaint with the BBB before Dish tried to make amends. I now spend less money with them because I downgraded some of my programming packages and only keep 2 receivers instead of 4. As soon as Direct gets the ball rolling on their HD, I am ditching Dish. They can take their new customer harrassment project and shove it.
> 
> At best, their gestapo tactics might very well fetch them a lawsuit.


OH NO!! another law suit, Can dish stay in business if everyone sues them??


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

UTFAN said:


> ...
> Just my opinion, but it all smacks of big brother. :nono2:


I suspect that if you owned a second home that you rented out that you'd develop some scheme to make sure it was still standing. Dish has every right to protect themselves from improper if not illegal theft of service. I would welcome their call with the knowledge that every thief identified reduces their overhead and favorably affects their ability to provide the service I expect.:grin:


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

James Long said:


> Prior discussion was in this thread. If further comments need to be made, they can be made here.


Well said


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Dialups have ZERO to do with your recievers getting software updates - but there is a setting that you have about permission to update. Disregard these updates at YOUR peril - it's a good way to turn your recievers into doorstops.

And yes - I DO let my receivers update.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't see this as a big deal. Dish is protecting their investment. They know if you subscribe only to locals on one receiver and your brother subscribes to the everything Pak, and pay channels with 4 receivers that he can lend you some oh his recievers and you could split the bill. That's piracy and how else do you expect them to police it if they don't call you?


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

finniganps said:


> I don't see this as a big deal. Dish is protecting their investment. They know if you subscribe only to locals on one receiver and your brother subscribes to the everything Pak, and pay channels with 4 receivers that he can lend you some oh his recievers and you could split the bill. That's piracy and how else do you expect them to police it if they don't call you?


I realy don't see what the big deal is with the audit team. If they audit you, they audit you. It's not like they are asking you to recite the Gettysburg Adress from memory.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, and the next time the IRS audits me, I'm going to stop paying taxes in protest.


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## prick (Apr 29, 2006)

The satellite industry is as corrupt as the gasoline companies. It doesn't cost E* any more $ to transmit to 5 million or 5.5 million consumers. The amount of money they make is absurd. They don't have to "cater" to the customer as Cable and D* are on the same wavelength. People NEED TV....They need a release at the end of the day. The providers know this and they profit by it. In the state of the US economy (ask any retailer how business has been this month) the providers should do what they can to help the American people by LOWERING prices, not raising them as we saw recently. And just a closing note as to why I think they are crooks.........E* can take a service call from a customer and instead of sending a work order (retailer referral) to the ORIGINAL installer (let's say for a defective receiver) they can send their team out to replace receiver and issue a chargeback to the ORIGINAL installer as the equipment originally installed was replaced. Oh, but if it's a bad SW21 switch 125 miles away they assign it to you and giva ya 20 bucks! Ain't that sweet?! They will even issue a $100 chargeback for non-compliance. E* covers their own as*es and gives a rats as* about morals or mutual respect for the little man (independant retailers) who have MUCH more to lose than the Satellite Pig. Don't mean to sound pissy on my first post, but I've seen too much.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Welcome to DBSTalk, prick!


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

prick said:


> The satellite industry is as corrupt as the gasoline companies. It doesn't cost E* any more $ to transmit to 5 million or 5.5 million consumers. The amount of money they make is absurd. They don't have to "cater" to the customer as Cable and D* are on the same wavelength. People NEED TV....They need a release at the end of the day. The providers know this and they profit by it. In the state of the US economy (ask any retailer how business has been this month) the providers should do what they can to help the American people by LOWERING prices, not raising them as we saw recently. And just a closing note as to why I think they are crooks.........E* can take a service call from a customer and instead of sending a work order (retailer referral) to the ORIGINAL installer (let's say for a defective receiver) they can send their team out to replace receiver and issue a chargeback to the ORIGINAL installer as the equipment originally installed was replaced. Oh, but if it's a bad SW21 switch 125 miles away they assign it to you and giva ya 20 bucks! Ain't that sweet?! They will even issue a $100 chargeback for non-compliance. E* covers their own as*es and gives a rats as* about morals or mutual respect for the little man (independant retailers) who have MUCH more to lose than the Satellite Pig. Don't mean to sound pissy on my first post, but I've seen too much.


well, at least you picked an appropriate screen name!


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## prick (Apr 29, 2006)

Sorry....... didn't mean to rant. Just kinda came pouring out, ya know. I really love the things E* has come up with in the tech field. Dish Pro + and dual tuner receivers are WAY above D*'s technology. And, as of yet, there is STILL no word from D* about what they are going to do about the "1 Dish" regulation for people receiving locals on a second dish. My guess is their locals will cease to exist for these unfortunate folks whose locals are pulled from 72.5, for example. Can't really elaborate, as I have been given NO information


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

D* locals have always been available with one dish. Only E* has/had locals split so that you needed two dishes to get all your local stations.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Mikey said:


> Yeah, and the next time the IRS audits me, I'm going to stop paying taxes in protest.


:biggthump :goodjob: :allthumbs That's the spirit.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

prick said:


> Sorry....... didn't mean to rant. Just kinda came pouring out, ya know. I really love the things E* has come up with in the tech field. Dish Pro + and dual tuner receivers are WAY above D*'s technology. And, as of yet, there is STILL no word from D* about what they are going to do about the "1 Dish" regulation for people receiving locals on a second dish. My guess is their locals will cease to exist for these unfortunate folks whose locals are pulled from 72.5, for example. Can't really elaborate, as I have been given NO information


You missunderstand the rule The local stations must all be on the same satellite. In other words D* couldn't put ABC/NBC/CBS on 72.5 and put FOX on 101, that would be a violation. Having the locals on 72.5 and basic programming on 101 is perfectly acceptable.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

n0qcu said:


> D* locals have always been available with one dish. Only E* has/had locals split so that you needed two dishes to get all your local stations.


That is not now, nor has it recently been the case. Looking at the current locals chart on the D* website, I count at least 28 markets that "requires the use of a second 18-in DirecTV dish".

I don't mean to suggest that all of a market's channels cannot be received on a single dish, just that some require more than one dish to receive your TC package _and_ your locals. This may change when they bring Spaceway 2 fully online.

Looking at the uplink activity, E* has moved an awful lot of locals to the standard Dish500 positions (110,119).

It should not be dismissed that E* offers more local markets than D* does.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

boba said:


> You missunderstand the rule The local stations must all be on the same satellite.


Are you sure? The SHVERA says the following:


SHVERA Section 203 said:


> `(g) Carriage of Local Stations on a Single Dish-
> `(1) SINGLE DISH- Each satellite carrier that retransmits the analog signals of local television broadcast stations in a local market shall retransmit such analog signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment.
> `(2) EXCEPTION- If the carrier retransmits signals in the digital television service, the carrier shall retransmit such digital signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment, but such antenna and associated equipment may be separate from the single reception antenna and associated equipment used for analog television service signals.


There may be additional, more specific conditions elsewhere.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

John W said:


> Could there possibly be a less efficient way of doing this in this day and age?


They could immediately shut down every receiver that doesn't respond to repeated call-in requests or responds from the wrong telephone number.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

harsh said:


> Are you sure? The SHVERA says the following:
> There may be additional, more specific conditions elsewhere.


This is the situation in the DC area. The analog locals are on 110/119. The HD Locals are on 61.5. 129 is not an option. Some of our "second Tier locals are not currently on 110/119 however if I tune to them they noww say they will be available soon.

I'm getting a 622 installed Monday and that install will retain my cirrent Dish 500 and add a second dish for 61.5 so I can receive my Sat HD locals.


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## smashr (Apr 19, 2006)

Something occured to me about audits -- how would it work for vacation homes? (We have cable at our vacation home at the moment), but if we did have satellite at the beach house, the billing address and phone number would still be our permanent home's address (no dish there are the moment, either). Since we rent it out, we are only there once a year or so, so what could I do if they called the home number and demanded this information?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

smashr said:


> Something occured to me about audits -- how would it work for vacation homes? (We have cable at our vacation home at the moment), but if we did have satellite at the beach house, the billing address and phone number would still be our permanent home's address (no dish there are the moment, either). Since we rent it out, we are only there once a year or so, so what could I do if they called the home number and demanded this information?


vacation homes are required to have a seperate account set up for it. You are not allowed to "shuttle" your receiver between you home and you vacation home.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

smashr said:


> Something occured to me about audits -- how would it work for vacation homes?


Other than a special exception for Recreational Vehicles, the second home is treated as a different installation. "Cabin" installations are specifically prohibited by both D* and E*.

Renting a home with included satellite service (reselling) may be another touchy issue.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

smashr said:


> Something occured to me about audits -- how would it work for vacation homes? (We have cable at our vacation home at the moment), but if we did have satellite at the beach house, the billing address and phone number would still be our permanent home's address (no dish there are the moment, either). Since we rent it out, we are only there once a year or so, so what could I do if they called the home number and demanded this information?


As others have posted, the accepted method is to have separate service for your vacation home. That way when you rent it out, those people could even have satellite service if they wanted to, and were willing to pay you for it, otherwise you could shut it down for when you are not there via the "Dish Pause" plan.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

harsh said:


> Are you sure? The SHVERA says the following:
> There may be additional, more specific conditions elsewhere.


Yes - you do misunderstand -

There is NOTHING preventing the DBS providers from giving you the CABLE channels at 1 slot/ dish, and having ALL of a certain markets at another slot such that it requires a second dish. ALL stations in ALL markets are to be treated the same. So your local big4 (CBS, ABC, NBC, and FOX stations) all have to be on the same dish as your UPN/ WB /PBS / and any independent stations.

Example - AT120 requires Dish500 (110 / 119) for everything (heck to be technical, it also requires 61.5). However, your local channels could be on 148, or 61.5 - some markets ARE setup that way...


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Slamminc11 said:


> vacation homes are required to have a seperate account set up for it. You are not allowed to "shuttle" your receiver between you home and you vacation home.


Exactly! Nor would a cable company give you a free drop at a vacation home were you a customer at your "main home."


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

SaltiDawg said:


> Exactly! Nor would a cable company give you a free drop at a vacation home were you a customer at your "main home."


but according to some people on this site and others, they think it is completely acceptable to be able to do that with dish (or direct I would assume) because satellite systems are more mobile than cable. and despite what those people think, it has more to do with contracts signed with different networks and companies than with what dish "wants to do"! 
Just because you are physically able to do it, doesn't mean you can do it! Gas and Electric were expensive as crap this past winter, but they gas and electric companies did not allow me to hook up a line at our cabin for free because I have the same service at my regular home and just piggy-back off of that one. Same principle here, but apparently some feel like they are above the rules when it comes to tv service. No difference people! No Difference!


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## smashr (Apr 19, 2006)

HDMe said:


> As others have posted, the accepted method is to have separate service for your vacation home. That way when you rent it out, those people could even have satellite service if they wanted to, and were willing to pay you for it, otherwise you could shut it down for when you are not there via the "Dish Pause" plan.


No no -- that was not my question. I was saying what would happen if I had a dish account setup for my second home on a completely seperate account. I am not talking about shuttling recievers or stacking accounts or anything of the like. But the problem related to auditing would be that the billing address and more importantly the billing phone number would be my permanent address, so I would have no way of completing an audit if they called as I am at the second home but a couple times a year.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

From Message #41:



scooper said:


> Yes - you do misunderstand -


To whom are you responding? I was literally quoting SHVERA, which I would assume you would not dispute.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

smashr said:


> But the problem related to auditing would be that the billing address and more importantly the billing phone number would be my permanent address, so I would have no way of completing an audit if they called as I am at the second home but a couple times a year.


The service address and billing address might be separable, but the phone number would have to be that of the beach house (if one existed). It is possible to set up an install without a phone line and you might have to pay a tuner fee with a sophisticated receiver. As was pointed out, if you only have one receiver on an account, it is very unlikely that there will be an audit.

The issue of reselling service (bundling it with the rent) in the other 50 weeks of the year remains and only Dish Network should answer that question.

I am considering the same situation as I'm getting tired of paying Charter $58/month for basic cable at the beach.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

smashr said:


> No no -- that was not my question. I was saying what would happen if I had a dish account setup for my second home on a completely seperate account. I am not talking about shuttling recievers or stacking accounts or anything of the like. But the problem related to auditing would be that the billing address and more importantly the billing phone number would be my permanent address, so I would have no way of completing an audit if they called as I am at the second home but a couple times a year.


In that case... the phone number should not be your home number... it should be a number at the cabin. That's one of the ways Dish identifies that the receivers connected to the phone line are calling in from the correct place.

I don't know how their system works... but I would think they wouldn't allow you to setup two separate accounts under different name that had the same address and phone number. That would sound like it is the same account.

I see no reason why you couldn't do a second account, and list the cabin phone number and address.

Now as for billing, you could either go on autopay OR have them send the bill to your home address. That seems like it should work fine and be appropriate. If you don't have a landline phone in the cabin, that might eventually present a problem for the receivers not calling in... but I don't know about that part.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

As other long time subscribers may remember, and of which I have a copy of the broadcast, Charlie in a Charlie Chat specifically said you can shuttle a reciever from your home to your vacation home. I of course am aware of what the contract says, but it would be interesting to play back his comments if called to court.
Thinking this thru a little, you probably still could shuttle even with an audit call. If it is your only receiver and you actually answer a call from the Audit department, you would be able to give them the information wherever you had it hooked up. The problem of course would be if you have more than one receiver.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

prick said:


> The satellite industry is as corrupt as the gasoline companies. It doesn't cost E* any more $ to transmit to 5 million or 5.5 million consumers. The amount of money they make is absurd. They don't have to "cater" to the customer as Cable and D* are on the same wavelength. People NEED TV....They need a release at the end of the day. The providers know this and they profit by it. In the state of the US economy (ask any retailer how business has been this month) the providers should do what they can to help the American people by LOWERING prices, not raising them as we saw recently. And just a closing note as to why I think they are crooks.........E* can take a service call from a customer and instead of sending a work order (retailer referral) to the ORIGINAL installer (let's say for a defective receiver) they can send their team out to replace receiver and issue a chargeback to the ORIGINAL installer as the equipment originally installed was replaced. Oh, but if it's a bad SW21 switch 125 miles away they assign it to you and giva ya 20 bucks! Ain't that sweet?! They will even issue a $100 chargeback for non-compliance. E* covers their own as*es and gives a rats as* about morals or mutual respect for the little man (independant retailers) who have MUCH more to lose than the Satellite Pig. Don't mean to sound pissy on my first post, but I've seen too much.


Cheap shot with nothing to back it up. Hate high gas prices? But a Prius. Or walk. Hate the satellite companies? Get out your rabbit ears. Or get a library card.

Your post is shameful.


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

The audit team can set-up a special second home/cabin account that can be changed to inactive as much as every week for no charge. Then you only pay for what you use at the second location. It must be linked to your main account.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> As other long time subscribers may remember, and of which I have a copy of the broadcast, Charlie in a Charlie Chat specifically said you can shuttle a reciever from your home to your vacation home. I of course am aware of what the contract says, but it would be interesting to play back his comments if called to court.
> Thinking this thru a little, you probably still could shuttle even with an audit call. If it is your only receiver and you actually answer a call from the Audit department, you would be able to give them the information wherever you had it hooked up. The problem of course would be if you have more than one receiver.


what three four years ago? Things change, rules change. That may have been true then, but as of 2/1 (or whenver they decided), Dish changed the rules and as it now stands, no shuttling receives betweeen houses.
It's not really that difficult thing to grasp.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

tampa8 said:


> ... If it is your only receiver and you actually answer a call from the Audit department, you would be able to give them the information wherever you had it hooked up. The problem of course would be if you have more than one receiver.


If I understand you correctly, you would *not *be able to satisfy an auditor if the receiver was at a different location than you are when the call is received. One of the numbers that the auditor is a number that is changed every 10 (or so) minutes so writing it down in case you are audited will not work.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize for adding confusion.


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

As long as all receivers can call in about once a month on the same phone line and you don't say anything to a CSR about receivers in other locations, your account shouldn't be flagged for audit.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> One of the numbers that the auditor is a number that is changed every 10 (or so) minutes so writing it down in case you are audited will not work.


The Location ID meets that description.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

harsh said:


> From Message #41:
> 
> To whom are you responding? I was literally quoting SHVERA, which I would assume you would not dispute.


Yes I WAS responding to you - NOTHING prevents either DBS provider from putting core programming at one location and require use of another dish to receive your locals. The only thing is that all of one market's station must be on the same dish. 
All of the locals for a given market must be treated exactly the same. Dish has NOT always complied with this - that was the whole purpose to get E*10 up.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

harsh said:


> The Location ID meets that description.


The point is that you must be able to see the *current* screen to be able to respond with the *current* number. (You may be able to come up with a scheme involving your cell phone and the ability to cordinate a friend reading you the number with the auditor figuring out what you are doing?:grin:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

scooper said:


> Yes I WAS responding to you - NOTHING prevents either DBS provider from putting core programming at one location and require use of another dish to receive your locals.


I offered nothing that would conflict with that.


> The only thing is that all of one market's station must be on the same dish.


Which my quote supports. You're attacking the wrong target. My response was to Message #32 from Boba who asserted that all of the locals must be on the same _satellite_.


> All of the locals for a given market must be treated exactly the same.


This is NOT true. A satellite provider can choose not to carry a particular station and this has been supported by the FCC. The satellite provider is also not required (nor allowed) to carry a station with which they cannot reach a carriage agreement.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> The point is that you must be able to see the *current* screen to be able to respond with the *current* number.


I was simply putting a name to your "one of the numbers".


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I apologize if we had a misunderstanding.

The local retrans consent / must carry is another issue. You might want to do some reading on that as well.

Basically, every so many years (normally 3), The stations decide whether they want retransmission consent or opt for Must carry status. If a station opts for retrans consent, but can't reach an agreement with the DBS / cable provider, well - the station is SOL until the next cycle. Certain stations (PBS usually, but there are some other cases) have to take Must carry. There are some additional rules on the Must Carry stations (for example, a provider isn't required to carry multiple PBS stations unless their programming is substantially different).

The Retrans / Must Carry is just the same as applies to cable, and from this point forward, DBS and cable systems are on the same schedule. This is to prevent the stations from playing DBS/ cable off each other.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

harsh said:


> I was simply putting a name to your "one of the numbers".


Thanks, I misunderstood.


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## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

E* charges $20 a year for having a receiver in an RV. At least that is what they have been charging me.


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## smashr (Apr 19, 2006)

redbird said:


> The audit team can set-up a special second home/cabin account that can be changed to inactive as much as every week for no charge. Then you only pay for what you use at the second location. It must be linked to your main account.


Very interesting -- that answers my question


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

scooper said:


> The local retrans consent / must carry is another issue. You might want to do some reading on that as well.


Like here? http://www.dbstalk.com/ekb/20


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

SaltiDawg said:


> If I understand you correctly, you would *not *be able to satisfy an auditor if the receiver was at a different location than you are when the call is received. One of the numbers that the auditor is a number that is changed every 10 (or so) minutes so writing it down in case you are audited will not work.


Be paranoid... be prepared, lol -- Write it down every 10 minutes (or so) .. on a constant basis .. until they call you (even if it takes years...) ..

j/k of course.... :lol: :grin:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

scooper said:


> There is NOTHING preventing the DBS providers from giving you the CABLE channels at 1 slot/ dish, and having ALL of a certain markets at another slot such that it requires a second dish.


Nothing except common sense and competitive advantages. Most customers want one dish, not two, and the smaller the better. There are a few markets that are 148° only. Everything else is (or will be soon) on the same dish as the core packages.


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## invictus (May 10, 2006)

I just got through dealing with the audit team from dish network which i had been dreading after hearing about them and it was all for a good reason. They said they had a problem with two of the 5 recievers on my account and were going to have to permanently deactivate them!!! After about 30 mins of going around and around with the tool on the phone i asked for a supervisor which he gladly put me through to but this didnt solve anything. The supervisor said the last box which is located in a detached garage 20 ft. behind my house would have to have its own account since it was not considered part of the residence and since i had referred to it as an "apartment" which was a big mistake. I tried explaining how it was just a room in a garage and they gave me some spill have being a landlord or something, by this time i was so furious i finally told them to shove it and hung up. They turned all the recievers back on except for the one in the garage. The audit team for dish is just a bunch of cracked out tools who try to invade your privacy and i could not get over the fact how there was no consideration for being a customer for 4 years with no problem. Dish is a great product but their audit team is a big problem, all they do is invade your privacy and waste about 30 or 45 minutes of your life.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

invictus said:


> I just got through dealing with the audit team from dish network which i had been dreading after hearing about them and it was all for a good reason. They said they had a problem with two of the 5 recievers on my account and were going to have to permanently deactivate them!!! After about 30 mins of going around and around with the tool on the phone i asked for a supervisor which he gladly put me through to but this didnt solve anything. The supervisor said the last box which is located in a detached garage 20 ft. behind my house would have to have its own account since it was not considered part of the residence and since i had referred to it as an "apartment" which was a big mistake. I tried explaining how it was just a room in a garage and they gave me some spill have being a landlord or something, by this time i was so furious i finally told them to shove it and hung up. They turned all the recievers back on except for the one in the garage. The audit team for dish is just a bunch of cracked out tools who try to invade your privacy and i could not get over the fact how there was no consideration for being a customer for 4 years with no problem. Dish is a great product but their audit team is a big problem, all they do is invade your privacy and waste about 30 or 45 minutes of your life.


seems to me that if you play by the rules that Dish has set out and which you agreed to when you signed up for service you wouldn't have anything to worry about. All receivers under one roof. Different roof, different account. If you choose to not follow those rules then what do you want someone to say?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I liken some of these kinds of complaints to the robber who gets away with robbing houses for a few years... then gets caught. Can he complain that he thought robbing was ok because he had been doing it for years?


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

Slamminc11 said:


> seems to me that if you play by the rules that Dish has set out and which you agreed to when you signed up for service you wouldn't have anything to worry about. All receivers under one roof. Different roof, different account. If you choose to not follow those rules then what do you want someone to say?


All recievers under one roof is a load of crap!

My garage is detached from my house as are all garages in my neighborhood. I have a work shop out there with a TV and a 508... So you telling me that I am breaking the rules becasue I have a reciever in my detached garage that doesnt share the same roof as my house? :nono2:

If they call me and have an issue I will gladly take 150.00 dollar a mnth bill to someone else.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

James Long said:


> ...Everything else is (or will be soon) on the same dish as the core packages.


This is not correct for the DC area. There are no (known) plans for the DC HD locals to be moved from 61.5. 129 is not an option.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Paradox-sj said:


> All recievers under one roof is a load of crap!
> 
> My garage is detached from my house as are all garages in my neighborhood. I have a work shop out there with a TV and a 508... So you telling me that I am breaking the rules becasue I have a reciever in my detached garage that doesnt share the same roof as my house? :nono2:
> 
> If they call me and have an issue I will gladly take 150.00 dollar a mnth bill to someone else.


4:28 AM posts are always funny. 

You figure your garage and shop are different then "under one roof?"


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Paradox-sj said:


> All recievers under one roof is a load of crap!


The problem was that invictus called it an apartment, which meant to Dish that he leased/rented it out to someone which would be a different household, and thus require it's own account.

If he had said he had a TV in the garage to watch while using the workbench, like you do, he would have been okay.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

harsh said:


> My response was to Message #32 from Boba who asserted that all of the locals must be on the same _satellite_.


Harsh,

SHVERA DOES NOT mandate that All Local Channels be on the same satellite.

SHVERA DOES MANDATE that all local market channels be available on the same DISH. This means that as long as a Single Dish can be used to recieve multiple orbital slots and all of your locals are available on those different orbital slots Dish IS COMPLYING with the law.

John


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## ashu (Mar 9, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> seems to me that if you play by the rules that Dish has set out and which you agreed to when you signed up for service you wouldn't have anything to worry about. All receivers under one roof. Different roof, different account. If you choose to not follow those rules then what do you want someone to say?


Could I have some of the Kool-Aid you're drinking, please?

Garage in HIS home, same Dish source. It's not like he's installed another Dish (or set of Dishes) in another geographic location and is pretending to have them in the same location. (If he is, of course, I have no sympathy!).

But seriously ... power-tripping 'auditors'? That's hilarious! (assuming we take his post about the setup to be honest, of course  )


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

derwin0 said:


> The problem was that invictus called it an apartment, which meant to Dish that he leased/rented it out to someone which would be a different household, and thus require it's own account.
> 
> If he had said he had a TV in the garage to watch while using the workbench, like you do, he would have been okay.


So really then it is sort of a game the auditors play. Say the wrong thing and down the slippery slope you go.

What if one has a Nanny unit on their property but it is still under the same utility bill etc (i.e not split)? I can guess they would go to town with this setup...again which is very common where I live.


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## Hondo (Sep 15, 2005)

ashu said:


> Could I have some of the Kool-Aid you're drinking, please?


Brilliant. When you run a business with this type of inflexibility and heavy handed practices it's no wonder people do end up going to the dark side. I agree with the purposes of having an audit team. However when you can give the location ID's when asked that's it. Period. If they'd treat the people who are honest with some respect they might avoid what happens when they don't.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

There are still some honest people here?

If they go on the premise there arent any honest people anymore, and some days its hard to not go with that premise by reading these forums, they are right on the money....


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## sattec (May 28, 2004)

location ID should be requested when a customer calls in for something...thats it, no other "search" for the bad guys would be needed, also a modem/ppv poll should be done on everybody that calls in for anything.


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## chrisk (Jun 6, 2004)

invictus did you cancel Dish? Or did you just bend over and take it? I have seen so many complaints about the audit team but no one has siad they left Dish.

If all the folks that complain about the audit team left Dish that would send Dish a message that the audit team is bad for business. However, if very few people leave and the audit team shuts down some questionable accounts or gets folks to get a second account than Dish sees the audit team as good for business.

At the risk of sounding harsh, If they insulted you or you don't like this treatment, leave Dish or STFU and take it.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

chrisk said:


> invictus did you cancel Dish? Or did you just bend over and take it? I have seen so many complaints about the audit team but no one has siad they left Dish.
> 
> If all the folks that complain about the audit team left Dish that would send Dish a message that the audit team is bad for business. However, if very few people leave and the audit team shuts down some questionable accounts or gets folks to get a second account than Dish sees the audit team as good for business.
> 
> At the risk of sounding harsh, If they insulted you or you don't like this treatment, leave Dish or STFU and take it.


Audit team is here to stay as long as there are people who are willing to cheat, lie, steal, and bend the rules. Am I saying that everyone the audit team calls fall into those categories, hell no! And for those who aren't doing any of those things, there isn't a problem. Sure it takes five minutes of of your day and your done. For those who are trying to cheat the system, then they deserve the headaches they are getting from this! My guess, 99% of the people *****ing about the audit team got caught cheating the system, whether on purpose or just not knowing the rules and didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. In either case, the system worked.
But in the long run, it will help to keep prices down and in my case stocks up!


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

I have my 522 and 622 hooked up to a phone line, like they asked. This is a non issue if you do such a simple thing.
Remember, if you don't have a phone line you can get the 110v phone adapter. you have to have 110v near the box.


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## ashu (Mar 9, 2006)

steelhorse said:


> I have my 522 and 622 hooked up to a phone line, like they asked. This is a non issue if you do such a simple thing.
> Remember, if you don't have a phone line you can get the 110v phone adapter. you have to have 110v near the box.


Wait ... if you don't have a phone line, you can get an adapter? Does this adapter include free long distance? 

I bet a lot of the tech-savvy people on this forum who have (or, in my case, 'had') Dish also have VOIP. Or no home line of any sort - just cell!


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

Dish calls a toll free number. My brother has vonage. His dish boxes dial out without a problem.


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## supersox (May 5, 2006)

How often does the vip622 call out or is it a random thing. Does the hard drive keep a log of all dish activity, plugged, unplugged etc. If I want to unplug this thing and take it to another tv to watch the Hd content from the dvr etc. Is there a big brother hideing on that hard drive. Only the software engineers probably know at this point since this things is relatively new.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JohnL said:


> SHVERA DOES NOT mandate that All Local Channels be on the same satellite.
> 
> SHVERA DOES MANDATE that all local market channels be available on the same DISH. This means that as long as a Single Dish can be used to recieve multiple orbital slots and all of your locals are available on those different orbital slots Dish IS COMPLYING with the law.


I don't suppose you read the message thread that you're replying to, did you? It would seem that you didn't even read the quote that you clipped from my post.

For those who missed posts 32 and 34, Boba mistakenly claimed that all locals must be on the same satellite and I posted a quote from the SHVERA showing the actual rules. For some reason I am repeatedly being taken to task for something that someone else posted that was in error.

I think we're all on the same page now.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Slamminc11 said:


> Different roof, different account.


There is no mention of "roof" in the Residential Customer Agreement. The agreement uses the terms "private home viewing" and "physical address". The use of the term "apartment" hints at a possible violation of the "private home viewing" condition.

Here's a link to the Residential Customer Agreement:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/index.shtml

If you are concerned that this is a dated version, there is a link at the bottom left of almost every page of the Dish Network website labeled... wait for it... Residential Agreement. For those who didn't sign this particular agreement, there's language in there speaking to how Dish Network may alter the agreement using a number of different methods.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

supersox said:


> How often does the vip622 call out or is it a random thing.


It is likely weighted towards audit candidates.


> Does the hard drive keep a log of all dish activity, plugged, unplugged etc.


Not so much the powering up and down, but it does keep track of errors and failed call attempts. Most of the newer receivers know if there is a phone line plugged in.


> If I want to unplug this thing and take it to another tv to watch the Hd content from the dvr etc. Is there a big brother hideing on that hard drive.


Unless the receiver remembers what port(s) of the switch that it was plugged into (I doubt this), it can't tell that it has moved unless you plug it into a different switch setup.

From my reading, you aren't prohibited by policy from moving the receivers around as long as when they land, they are connected to the same phone line. It may make more sense to do a cable run and an A/B switch (or distribution amp) to avoid the possible wear and tear of transport.


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## gcasp (May 5, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> Audit team is here to stay as long as there are people who are willing to cheat, lie, steal, and bend the rules. Am I saying that everyone the audit team calls fall into those categories, hell no! And for those who aren't doing any of those things, there isn't a problem. Sure it takes five minutes of of your day and your done. For those who are trying to cheat the system, then they deserve the headaches they are getting from this! My guess, 99% of the people *****ing about the audit team got caught cheating the system, whether on purpose or just not knowing the rules and didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. In either case, the system worked.
> But in the long run, it will help to keep prices down and in my case stocks up!


It ain't cheating to have a garage with a TV.

He's paying the extra $5 to have an xtra receiver, so i say bull**** as long as it's on the same property. :nono2:


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

gcasp said:


> It ain't cheating to have a garage with a TV.
> 
> He's paying the extra $5 to have an xtra receiver, so i say bull**** as long as it's on the same property. :nono2:


But he said it was an apartment not a tv in a garage. If that is what he told the audit team, no one's fault but his


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## hevnbnd (Dec 22, 2005)

So what the heck are you to do If you don't have a phone? We use cell phones only... We have a condo that uses voip as well so I think I may be screwed at both locations when I get dish set up... What recievers don't have a phone hookup?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

All receivers have a phone plug. You will be charged $5 more per month if you have one of the new two tuner receivers and do not have it connected to a phone line. The audit team doesn't bother people with just a couple of receivers or people with their receivers connected to a working phone line. As long as you are not looking to connect several receivers you should be OK (even though the rules state you need a phone line).


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Slamminc11 said:


> <...>But in the long run, it will help to keep prices down and in my case stocks up!


The system will NEVER works in YOUR favor, but for owner's packet !
Your face is not in the picture, son .


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

P Smith said:


> The system will NEVER works in YOUR favor, but for owner's packet !
> Your face is not in the picture, son .


and in the last three months since I made that post, my rates haven't increased and my stock is up over $4.00 as share, so this "owner" is happy!


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## wwfmike (Jul 17, 2006)

I skipped pages 2 & 3 so i don't know if this was mentioned. Can't you just write down all the information from the recievers before you scatter them and have it available if you ever get a call?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

wwfmike said:


> I skipped pages 2 & 3 so i don't know if this was mentioned. Can't you just write down all the information from the recievers before you scatter them and have it available if you ever get a call?


The information they request changes on an irregular basis. Some have claimed to be able to predict the code that the audit team will request from each receiver's screen. I wouldn't count on it to work.

The audit team isn't stupid. They listen to you on the call. If they hear you walking around your house getting numbers that is a good thing. If they hear you clicking keys on a computer generating numbers it is a bad thing. It is all part of the game - and the more people play games by stacking the more innocent subscribers have to work to prove they own their receivers.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

wwfmike said:


> I skipped pages 2 & 3 so i don't know if this was mentioned. Can't you just write down all the information from the recievers before you scatter them and have it available if you ever get a call?


The information is not static, it changes hour by hour/minute by minute randomly. Look at you location ID and then go back 15 minutes later - its different.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Slamminc11 said:


> and in the last three months since I made that post, my rates haven't increased and my stock is up over $4.00 as share, so this "owner" is happy!


I'm proud of your $4  , when owners getting $4B . I would buy a pack of cigarette off the your year profit and while doing plesant smoking process, think about last 4 years at least.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

P Smith said:


> I'm proud of your $4  , when owners getting $4B .


Why would you begrudge the owners making a profit on their shares? If the owners get rich by causing an increase in the price of a share of stuck I still get my profit. And Echostar has done well for many of we investors.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

P Smith said:


> I'm proud of your $4  , when owners getting $4B . ...


I think you're missing the point. Slammin *IS* one of the owners.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Really ? Then *I*'m own MS, Dell, Cisco and who knows how many other companies. 

Funny, but no one of owners of those millions companies are the member here.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

:eek2: :eek2: Helloo ..yahhha ...Audit Who ...OK'by ...:eek2: :eek2: 

I feel the same way everybody else does but it never happens to me. I have been waiting for jury duty for 53 years !!! I never get nasty grams from the IRS..
I never win the lottery pic either ...I think I am doomed to normalcy ...


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

Thanks Dishnetwork, 
I had 3 boxes on my account in the same house, 1 living room, 1 bedroom and 1 in spare room that I spilled water in and forgot to turn off that specific box ( MY FAULT) well I recieved a call from the AUDIT TEAM and basically was told I had 72 hours to comply with thier demands or I would fail. I explained to the auditor turn off the box that I spilt water in and lets run the test he insisted on, well not satisfied with me he insisted that all the boxes needed to be hooked to phone line. No problem I would hook up my bedroom reciever to the phone line except for the damaged reciever by my negligence. I do understand why the audit is being run, but Dish must think I am ignorant to plug in an electrical device with water damage and put my SAFETY at risk. At this point I have gone to a OTA antenna and happy with free local HDTV/STD TV reception also forgot about free FM HD radio. 
I was customer for over 10+ years with dishnetwork loyal customer, always paid my bill on time. I almost forgot what what it was like not to have a monthly payment.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Something sounds fishy here... if you truly have a receiver that has been damaged... all you would have had to do is connect the ones that work to a phone line, and then for that damaged one (since it would not work) tell them that it is broken and you need to have it replaced.

You can't make a broken receiver work... and I'm sure if you said that then they would work with you. I suspect we aren't getting the whole story here.


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## cybrsurfer (Sep 17, 2006)

dishcalifornia said:


> Thanks Dishnetwork,
> I had 3 boxes on my account in the same house, 1 living room, 1 bedroom and 1 in spare room that I spilled water in and forgot to turn off that specific box ( MY FAULT) well I recieved a call from the AUDIT TEAM and basically was told I had 72 hours to comply with thier demands or I would fail. I explained to the auditor turn off the box that I spilt water in and lets run the test he insisted on, well not satisfied with me he insisted that all the boxes needed to be hooked to phone line. No problem I would hook up my bedroom reciever to the phone line except for the damaged reciever by my negligence. I do understand why the audit is being run, but Dish must think I am ignorant to plug in an electrical device with water damage and put my SAFETY at risk. At this point I have gone to a OTA antenna and happy with free local HDTV/STD TV reception also forgot about free FM HD radio.
> I was customer for over 10+ years with dishnetwork loyal customer, always paid my bill on time. I almost forgot what what it was like not to have a monthly payment.


:eek2:


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

HDMe have you ever dealt with the audit team? They are not very helpful in most circumstances. Yes I passed my audit, but as a dealer since 1996 I felt insulted that they even audited my 2 receiver account. I could bring a showroom account home and watch everything "free" but I had a legal account.


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## sattec (May 28, 2004)

you tell 'em bob, the dish mafia is brutal, they take no prisoners!!


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

Mikey said:


> Yeah, and the next time the IRS audits me, I'm going to stop paying taxes in protest.


:lol: :lol: Well said!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

cybrsurfer said:


> Dish can tell if you spill water on your receiver, and if you do they call you up?


They can tell when a receiver that should be connected to a phone line and calling in stops doing that function. It didn't get to the level of the audit team, but I lost my 501 because I didn't have a phone line connected for a couple of months after moving the receiver (within my house). (They reactivated it when I called in ...)


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

Why doesn't E* simply charge full freight per receiver? If you have x receivers so you can watch x different channels simultaneously you have the same capability as someone who has y receivers at one location and x-y receivers at another location. If you simply want to view the same program in various rooms that can be accomplished with a coax run. Does E* charge any less if all of your receivers happen to be on the same channel? This would solve the stacking problem leaving more time to beat up on movers.



James Long said:


> They can tell when a receiver that should be connected to a phone line and calling in stops doing that function. It didn't get to the level of the audit team, but I lost my 501 because I didn't have a phone line connected for a couple of months after moving the receiver (within my house). (They reactivated it when I called in ...)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* actually has the opposite reaction. If a receiver is turned off by the audit team it is hard to get it reactivated - even on a new account.

It is easier to cut off a receiver than to send someone a bill for two or three times the expected amount and actually get paid.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

boba said:


> HDMe have you ever dealt with the audit team? They are not very helpful in most circumstances. Yes I passed my audit, but as a dealer since 1996 I felt insulted that they even audited my 2 receiver account. I could bring a showroom account home and watch everything "free" but I had a legal account.


I haven't gotten a call from them or had them shut me down. I have heard the horror stories, and gather they lean towards the heavy-handed side.

In this particular case (the most recent poster here), I found it hard to believe that the sticking point was them wanting him to plug in a receiver that he said did not work. This is why I suspected we are not getting all the info... because if the receiver is broken, it cannot possibly call in or be verified during an audit... and if the customer says this, and is willing to deactivate that receiver and get it replaced, and his other receivers validate properly... then it seems like that would be pretty straightforward.

As said by others, it would be hard to get a deactivated receiver activated again... but if he spilled water on it and it was broken then he'd never want to turn it on again anyway, right?

Sounds to me (and I am purely guessing here) like he tried that as an excuse, and the receiver is not actually being used at his location... and the audit team saw through the ruse.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: It doesn't take much water to destroy a receiver. If it was plugged in at the time it was liquidated it is time to get the thing off the account or replaced ...
It is most likely dead anyways.


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

This whole phone line thing is silly. How can Dish expect every customer to have home phone service just because they have TV? When I first got Dish in 2000 I couldn't believe they expected everyone to hook every receiver to a phone line. Today it seems even more crazy. I use a cell phone for everything and I will never get a traditional land line in my home again. Therefore I will never plug in a Dish receiver to a phone line.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I haven't gotten a call from them or had them shut me down. I have heard the horror stories, and gather they lean towards the heavy-handed side.


I have no doubts about some of the stories, and the hand must be pretty heavy with that big momma club in it.

BUT, I got home early on the afternoon that they left a message on the answering machine. With only 3 receivers (active), I hadn't expected to be audited but this guy was pretty nice. He even asked where I'd read all the reports of bad treatment. One of the FIRST things he talked about was to verify that all receivers could be turned on and displayed on a screen. Since I said yes, I've no idea what happens if they can't all turn on.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

Slamminc11 said:


> well, as long as you aren't cheating them somehow, you don't have anything to worry about, but if you are cheating them, then they probably be more than happy to bid adieu to you!


All three of our receivers are in the house and being paid for. But the "audit team" will have to take my word for it.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

bderouen said:


> :lol: :lol: Well said!


This is like comparing oranges to satellite receivers. Doing business with Echostar is a decision by the consumer. If I don't like their tactics, and to be fair, no audit calls here, I simply leave.

The elected government, passes laws, which I must obey. If I don't, I can't pick another government.

Although I'd like to!

-Still recovering from the Nightmare on K Street!


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## dvbfan (Aug 2, 2006)

UTFAN said:


> T
> 
> The elected government, passes laws, which I must obey. If I don't, I can't pick another government.


Or.. if you can afford it (or able), you can also move to another country. 

On the same subject, what if you still a contract to fulfill (eg. 18 months)?

If they shut down all other receivers except for primary, that means we don't have to pay for the service for 2nd or 3rd receivers anymore?


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

I have a 4900 that *insists* there is no dialtone... so its modem is bad. Boohoo, it can't call in.

My 510 is connected to a phone line. My other 4900 is not.

If they call, it's a relatively simple matter for my wife to read 'em the numbers off 2 receivers, but she'd have to do some cable patching to get the 3rd one, which means it won't happen (we only use it occasionally... it's connected to the switch - bad things happen if you leave a receiver out of the stream too long - but not currently to any video device).

Her instructions are to take a message and I'll call 'em when I'm all set to do all 3... basically replacing a DVD player with the 3rd receiver for a bit (yeah, I could eliminate that and add in more video switch ports)

If that's not ok with 'em, then the answer is "Hello, DirecTV? What day can you come out?"

After 8+ years, somewhere in the neighborhood of $8000 paid to 'em for programming services... if they wanna get all pissy with me when all 3 receivers are right here, and have never been anywhere but in my house (ok, 3 different houses - but folks move, y'know?), then I won't do business with 'em, period.


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

HDMe said:


> I haven't gotten a call from them or had them shut me down. I have heard the horror stories, and gather they lean towards the heavy-handed side.
> 
> In this particular case (the most recent poster here), I found it hard to believe that the sticking point was them wanting him to plug in a receiver that he said did not work. This is why I suspected we are not getting all the info... because if the receiver is broken, it cannot possibly call in or be verified during an audit... and if the customer says this, and is willing to deactivate that receiver and get it replaced, and his other receivers validate properly... then it seems like that would be pretty straightforward.
> 
> ...


Hold on, if anyone has dealt with the audit team I think they would understand that either it is PASS OR FAIL (A or F). I was paying for a receiver I had disconnected and as I said my fault for not following up to have it deactivated. The audit team said I had 3 recievers on my account and we had to test all 3 receivers within 72 hours or I would fail, so how do I test the damaged receiver that would not function. I have owned the reciever since 1998 and the audit team would not send a replacement reciever. I have tried since May 06 to get my name off the Audit Team list to no avail. Here was the final blow I did not mention I called Dish @ 1-800-333-DISH in Sept about 8:30 PM and could not turn my Dish service off. I had to wait till the next day and call the Audit Team 1-888-371-9077 during normal business hours to turn my service off. The Audit Team will not give any leeway.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dishcalifornia said:


> Hold on, if anyone has dealt with the audit team I think they would understand that either it is PASS OR FAIL (A or F). I was paying for a receiver I had disconnected and as I said my fault for not following up to have it deactivated. The audit team said I had 3 recievers on my account and we had to test all 3 receivers within 72 hours or I would fail, so how do I test the damaged receiver that would not function. I have owned the reciever since 1998 and the audit team would not send a replacement reciever. I have tried since May 06 to get my name off the Audit Team list to no avail. Here was the final blow I did not mention I called Dish @ 1-800-333-DISH in Sept about 8:30 PM and could not turn my Dish service off. I had to wait till the next day and call the Audit Team 1-888-371-9077 during normal business hours to turn my service off. The Audit Team will not give any leeway.


Now I'm confused... your story has changed. Your first post sounded like you just had this audit problem recently (and as a new DBSTalk user with 2 posts that makes sense)... BUT in this post you say you have been trying to get off the audit list since May? But just now posting about it as if it just happened?

This is a pretty old thread, left for dead actually until your recent post... so this just adds fuel to the fire of we aren't getting the full story.

If you owned the receiver, and were not under an extended warranty plan, then they would not replace it for free... and again, if it was truly broken all you would have to say is "this receiver does not work" and then the audit team could disconnect that receiver for you and you might not ever be able to reactivate it, but if it is broken as you say then no harm there.

I'm sure we are not getting the full story here... because it just doesn't make any sense. If you tell them the receiver is broken, there should only be 2 options... deactivate that receiver permanently OR replace it under warranty. Either option should allow you to pass the audit with the other 2 receivers on your account.

Something just doesn't feel right here.


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Now I'm confused... your story has changed. Your first post sounded like you just had this audit problem recently (and as a new DBSTalk user with 2 posts that makes sense)... BUT in this post you say you have been trying to get off the audit list since May? But just now posting about it as if it just happened?
> 
> This is a pretty old thread, left for dead actually until your recent post... so this just adds fuel to the fire of we aren't getting the full story.
> 
> ...


As I said the audit team will not give any leeway, if you XXX number of recievers on your account on the day of the audit they want to run the test on the XXX number of recievers on the account, you cannot change that on the day of the test. Yes the audit was run ealier in the year and tried through many phone calls to correct this issue with Dish but no luck so I made the decision recently to terminate. 
But thanks for your response.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Others have reported in the past that ONLY the receivers that failed the test have been disconnected - for example a person who had four receivers with one inoperable would lose the fourth receiver. (They would have to verify the other receivers to keep them active.) Ignore the phone call and you end up with one working receiver.


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> Others have reported in the past that ONLY the receivers that failed the test have been disconnected - for example a person who had four receivers with one inoperable would lose the fourth receiver. (They would have to verify the other receivers to keep them active.) Ignore the phone call and you end up with one working receiver.


I still had my 2 receivers working and kept the service going for about 4 months. After estimating that over the past 10 that I spent around $8000.00 for Dish TV service. I had to turn the service off.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dishcalifornia said:


> I still had my 2 receivers working and kept the service going for about 4 months. After estimating that over the past 10 that I spent around $8000.00 for Dish TV service. I had to turn the service off.


Over the past 10 what? Months? That would be quite a bill. Years? Not too bad a bill.

We pay Dish for what we receive, we consume it and hopefully get value out of our consumption. I could add up what I have paid Dish over the years for service and get a decent number too ... but I also got to watch TV for that money I spent. Past value does not disappear when you cancel.


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## Alpaca Bill (Jun 17, 2005)

HDme,

I had a similar situation with one of my 508s the second time RATS called. The RATS wanted to run the test on all 4 receivers on my account. Three went just fine but the 4th, one of my 508s, would not detect a dialtone. Since this was the last of the 4 getting tested I was told the I had 24 hrs to get it connected otherwise ALL receivers would be locked. I told them that apparently the modem is not working (I had even run a second phone cord over to the receiver jsut in case the phone jack had gone dead) so asked how I was supposed to get it connected in 24 hrs. They flat out told me that I was lying and that the 508 must be somewhere other than my house! I told them it was right in front of me and I could read off the system info but that wasn't good enough. I had to escalate it to the RATS mgr (over a 3.5 hour phone call by the way) and it was ultimately resolved but I think Dish purposely places the grumpiest csr dropouts into the RATS.

Also, even though I was only being charged monthly for 4 receivers they initially asked why I needed so many receivers on my account as they had on their records. I asked what they meant. They told me that according to their records I still had 2 4000, 1 5000, 2 301, 2 501, 2 4700, and 2 4900 receivers on my account in addition to my 2 508s and 2 921s! This would mean I had 15 receivers, which isn't even allowed! It took almost an hour of going in circles to convince them that all of the older receivers had been replaced as their newer receivers had been released. You would have thunk I was talking Martian to them and that this was a completely new and unheard of process to them!! I even told them that when ever I upgraded one of my receivers, I specifically told the CSR that I was replacing such-n-such receiver and to take it off my account. Heck most of those receivers have been activated on other peoples accounts. Since I had bought all of them and would sell them off as they were replaced. You would think that their system would notice if the same receiver was being reported as being active on multiple accounts!

The RATS have their protocols and they will not vary from them. Their process requires ALL recievers to be tested at the same time during the same phone call (no hold, no switching phones, etc). My nightmare of a drama is documented elsewhere here but the first time they called me was the day I was moving from IL to IN but had left 2 receivers connected so that my kids (at the time all under 4) could be plunked down in front of a TV to keep them out of the way. The other two had been packed and already moved but not connected (we didn't even have full power, any of the cabling ran, or even phone service at the new house) to IN and that, according to RATS, was a violation of the user agreement since I was RECEIVING programming at two different locations. Dish had been told when I was moving via their own Dish Mover (which had NOT been installed yet) program but, again, that did not matter to RATS. I was a thief. Even after we got here I called to tell RATS when Verizon was scheduled to install my phone lines (which was pushed back almost 2.5 weeks due to them not realizing my house was 750' off the road and not having the proper crew scheduled) but they still locked 2 of my receivers (I had worked an "understanding" with the mgr to keep 2 active during this time).

Anyway, not going to rehash everything but just wanted to say that maybe he is telling the truth about the broken receiver and the RATS.

Oh yeah, and once auditted you stay in their department for ever. There is no parole for good behavior (even if you didn't do anything wrong in the first place!). I have to call RATS to do anything to my account that involves receiver or programming changes. I even have to call them first to unlock my account just to get tech support! The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that after sitting on hold with them (and describing what the problem is) they just transfer you over to tech support (if you are lucky...you usually get disconnected!) and you are placed at the end of the que. No "credit" for the 20-30 minutes you have been on the phone with them already.

Yeah, I can't wait until my sit down at CES with Dish!


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Now I'm confused... your story has changed. Your first post sounded like you just had this audit problem recently (and as a new DBSTalk user with 2 posts that makes sense)... BUT in this post you say you have been trying to get off the audit list since May? But just now posting about it as if it just happened?
> 
> This is a pretty old thread, left for dead actually until your recent post... so this just adds fuel to the fire of we aren't getting the full story.
> 
> ...


CSRs aren't permitted to make any changes AT ALL to an account under the Equipment Verification Team's review. (Yeah I know...I didn't change the acronym.) If verification doesn't occur in 72 hours the account is either corrected to the system information in hand or down to one unit. Failure to comply with an audit also places an equipment lock on your account to prevent any modifications (addition or removal of receivers). Lesson, call them back.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I know the audit folks have sometimes (maybe even most times) been described as heavy-handed.

I've seen many folks post in here, and several of them I was as clueless as they were as to why they were getting a hassle.

Just this particular case seems strange... especially as again the story has changed, and the poster now says he was able to continue using his other 2 receivers after the audit in May.

So now I'm trying to figure out what was his complaint. He had 3 receivers, one was broken, and none of them were calling in... so he got audited, and couldn't connect the broken one... but they let him continue to use the other 2... and since the 3rd one was broken (according to the poster) that should have been the end of the deal as he was still able to use the 2 functional receivers on his account after the May audit.

The main reason it seems he decided to switch was because of budgetary reasons... which have nothing to do with the audit. He looked at his monthly bill and decided it would be better to save the money and cancel his account.

All of which makes me think we aren't getting the whole story... otherwise, I see nothing for the poster to be complaining and sarcastically thanking Dish about.


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## ChoralScholar (Jul 23, 2004)

I've been sitting here reading all these posts and decided to do a phone line diagnostic and it FAILED!!! oh crap!

I remembered, I moved my receiver to the other side of the room, and forgot to connect the phone cable!

Oops!


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

Alpaca Bill said:


> HDme,
> 
> I had a similar situation with one of my 508s the second time RATS called. The RATS wanted to run the test on all 4 receivers on my account. Three went just fine but the 4th, one of my 508s, would not detect a dialtone. Since this was the last of the 4 getting tested I was told the I had 24 hrs to get it connected otherwise ALL receivers would be locked. I told them that apparently the modem is not working (I had even run a second phone cord over to the receiver jsut in case the phone jack had gone dead) so asked how I was supposed to get it connected in 24 hrs. They flat out told me that I was lying and that the 508 must be somewhere other than my house! I told them it was right in front of me and I could read off the system info but that wasn't good enough. I had to escalate it to the RATS mgr (over a 3.5 hour phone call by the way) and it was ultimately resolved but I think Dish purposely places the grumpiest csr dropouts into the RATS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. 
Have a good day.


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## dishcalifornia (Nov 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> Over the past 10 what? Months? That would be quite a bill. Years? Not too bad a bill.
> 
> We pay Dish for what we receive, we consume it and hopefully get value out of our consumption. I could add up what I have paid Dish over the years for service and get a decent number too ... but I also got to watch TV for that money I spent. Past value does not disappear when you cancel.


I was with Dish for 10 years and yes it was not a bad bill. Being a loyal customer with Dish means nothing according to the Audit team.


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## jjcaudle (Sep 29, 2006)

Interesting thread. I was thinking about moving from D* to Dish, but seeing this nonsense I think I will do cable. I only have one of my 3 receivers connected to phonelines and haven't had any problems with D*. The only reason its connected is that its a Directivo and downloads the programming guide by phone. I guess Direct doesn't have an audit group in the same way.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Now that I have a new ViP622... I now have one of my receivers (the 622) connected to a phone line for the first time. So I just have to change my mantra slightly... 2 receivers, one connected to the phone line


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## Jojo55 (Nov 19, 2006)

smashr said:


> Something occured to me about audits -- how would it work for vacation homes? (We have cable at our vacation home at the moment), but if we did have satellite at the beach house, the billing address and phone number would still be our permanent home's address (no dish there are the moment, either). Since we rent it out, we are only there once a year or so, so what could I do if they called the home number and demanded this information?


Exactly what happened to us.
We had Dish Network at our vacation home. No, we don't cheat ... we have cable at our primary residence! We rent out our vacation home often and one of our renters got the call from Dish that they needed to confirm something on the receivers but they wouldn't let him do it since he wasn't the account holder.

He notified us ... I called Dish back but I guess I ended up at the wrong department ... nobody knew what it was about. So I assumed they are just trying to sell something and didn't bother. 2 weeks later we got another call from our renter that one of the receiver was saying service was disconnected. The main receiver in the living room (single 311) was still working but they had disconnected the dual 322 which was serving the 2 bedrooms. In the following days I litterally went through hell to get service back. Our renter wasn't able to figure it out. It was an older retired couple renting our place. I couldn't do anything since I wasn't at the location and when our local management guy who looks after our vacation home called Dish they said they couldn't talk to him even though we had his name on the account! This went on and on and on for days with our renter getting more and more upset with no TV service in the bedrooms. We ended up cancelling Dish Network over this and replacing it with DirecTv.


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## Harold Brown (Mar 11, 2007)

finniganps said:


> I don't see this as a big deal. Dish is protecting their investment. They know if you subscribe only to locals on one receiver and your brother subscribes to the everything Pak, and pay channels with 4 receivers that he can lend you some oh his recievers and you could split the bill. That's piracy and how else do you expect them to police it if they don't call you?


The big deal for me was that they did not identify themselves as an audit team. They called and said they needed to make sure my receivers received a software update. I called back from my home and spoke to a guy that acted like he was a cop. That ticked me off. I don't care for liars or that type of an approach. I have Vonage and 3 DVR receivers and none hooked up to a phone line. In the past Dish has made statements twice acting as though 3 DVR receivers is unusual and have acted as though I was a thief. These people are messed up.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

UTFAN said:


> And they sure ain't "Good luck."
> 
> They've never called, but the day they do, I bid adieu to DISH. (8 Years as a customer)


Same here, 10 years at max subscription. I don't like busybodies.


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