# L213 OTA Bugs Thread



## Mark Lamutt

Please post any OTA related bugs to this thread. I.e. stations you can't tune to, stations you can't record from, stations you don't have trick play functionality (pause, FF, REW, etc) on. Be as specific as possible, providing station call letters, broadcast channel, PSIP channel, contact info, etc.


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## ayalbaram

Wow I guess Im first, but I knew itr would be a problem so i checked right away!

WWOR (UPN 9) in nyc is currently broadcasting on fox's (WNYW chan 5) freq. at 005-02, the guide data being displayed is for fox not upn


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## michaelL

I have been having major problems with my OTA channels.

1.) 2 of my channels (WB and UPN) are no longer working. The Scanning found them, but when I tune to them nothing comes in. The WB channel has a signal or 100+, UPN has a signal of 70-80. I never had any problems with these channels on L188.

2.) About 50% of the time when I tune to my other OTA channels, the channel is squished to the left 25% of the screen. It is really weird. Some time I can change to a non-OTA channel and get the screen back and some time I can not leave that channel. (Even when I power down, the channel still plays. The power light goes out but the squished channel still plays.

Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F053
SW version: L211HEED-N

P.S. I have only had the 921 for about a month, but I have never had any problems with OTA channels/recording on L188.


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## Mark Lamutt

michaelL - you really have to tell us where you are, and what channels won't tune. Call letters, broadcast and remapped channel, and please provide AT LEAST a website for the stations.


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## jsanders

michaelL said:


> 2.) About 50% of the time when I tune to my other OTA channels, the channel is squished to the left 25% of the screen. It is really weird. Some time I can change to a non-OTA channel and get the screen back and some time I can not leave that channel. (Even when I power down, the channel still plays. The power light goes out but the squished channel still plays.


That is weird sounding. You said "squished", does that mean that a person looks taller and skinnier than normal like an anamorphic squease, or is the image simply cropped? Is it possible to show us a picture of this problem?


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## Guest

I cannot add my analog OTA stations, WB KXVO 15 and FOX KPTM 42.

After getting 211, I deleted all OTAs, digital and analog. I scanned in DTVs and they tuned. I then scan in analogs. They show on the Local Channels screen (menu 6-8) but will not tune. I deleted all channels, scanned in OTA analog and they won't tune. I deleted them, added the analog channels again one at a time and they won't tune in. As I sit now, I can't view any OTA analog channels, period.

I had done a reboot after clearing the channels, then tried it again with no luck.

Boot 150B
Flash F053
SW L211HEED-N

Any suggestions?


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## michaelL

Mark Lamutt said:


> michaelL - you really have to tell us where you are, and what channels won't tune. Call letters, broadcast and remapped channel, and please provide AT LEAST a website for the stations.


Sorry, I did not think anyone would care about the details...

I live in Durham, NC. The channels are 022-01 WLFL broadcasting on channel 57 and 028-01 WRDL broadcasting on 27.



Jim_R said:


> That is weird sounding. You said "squished", does that mean that a person looks taller and skinnier than normal like an anamorphic squease, or is the image simply cropped? Is it possible to show us a picture of this problem?


Like a anamorphic squeeze. After a more test I have found that every time I got the squeezed video is after I tried to tune to the two channels above.

Also, I tried removing and readding 022-01 and 028-01 from the "local channels". They are now working. I have not seen the squeezed video since. Hopefully that fixed the problem.

Thanks,
Mike


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## TowJumper

gpflepsen said:


> I cannot add my analog OTA stations... any suggestions?


You might want to find the switch that makes the OTA channels map on the guide - not close to the 921 atm and can not remember the the menu setting - to see if that makes a difference. I think the switch is in the preferences settings.

Good Luck.


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## Guest

TowJumper said:


> You might want to find the switch that makes the OTA channels map on the guide - not close to the 921 atm and can not remember the the menu setting - to see if that makes a difference. I think the switch is in the preferences settings.
> 
> Good Luck.


That seems to have done it. I had looked for that function in the Locals menu. Thanks.


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## Samich

Not a problematic bug, but, I live in the Denver area (Littleton), the PBS channel KBDI 12, digital 38 that used to be remapped to 12 is no longer remapped, it now shows up as channel 38 with the call sign "Rf38". The other OTA locals re-mapped in correctly with the correct call signs. At least it works, it's very important to have PBS kids on 038-02 for the little one in the house.


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## boylehome

I'm very pleased that L211 fixed the OTA issue where I couldn't get KRCR digital 34. I get the main channel and the subchannel. Neither channel have any guide data listed in the display banner, browse banner or within the guide. KRCR still has no PSIP and this may be the reason for not having the data. In the display banner directly under 34-01 is, "Rf34." The only data information displayed is, "Local Programming."

02-22-05 Tuesday, KRCR TV digital channel now is transmitting PSIP and their channel is remapped to 07-01 and 07-02. No CC yet and the EPG now contains program information! Now lets see how the DVR timers work?


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## zer0cool

Not sure if this is common knowledge or not. After loading the software and rebooting, all my local OTA digital channels were working great, and my dish locals had remapped to their correct numbers. However when scrolling through the channel browser, I was able to scroll down but once I got to a local dish channel (Channel 8 for example) I could not scroll back up, only down. Going into the local channel set up and deleting all my local analog channels solved the problem.


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## Skates

Well, I went through the usual scanning process. My spiffy new signal strength meter confirms I'm getting 78%, but still a black screen on KCOP (it's a UPN affiliate)  .

OTA channel 13 analog/channel 66 digital.

http://www.upn13.com/

Severity for me is minor.


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## lenny

I'm in Buffalo, New York. All my OTA locals get remapped except for channel 2 which is NBC. It's call letters are WGRZ (www.wgrz.com) and the digital channel is located on channel 33. The identical thing happened with L188. I was hoping it would get fixed with L211 but I guess not. So is it a PSIP thing or something else?

The channel comes in clear and strong but since the 921 doesn't know it's NBC I don't get guide data for it. Can we just tell the 921 that this OTA channel is NBC like I used to for my 5000 receiver?

Everything else so far is working fine.

Here's some more info about the station:
WGRZ-TV
259 Delaware Ave.
Buffalo, NY 14202
716/849-2222

Thanks for listening,
Lenny


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## xsailor

Skates said:


> Well, I went through the usual scanning process. My spiffy new signal strength meter confirms I'm getting 78%, but still a black screen on KCOP (it's a UPN affiliate)  .
> 
> OTA channel 13 analog/channel 66 digital.
> 
> http://www.upn13.com/
> 
> Severity for me is minor.


I now have KCOP with OTA (didn't prior to 211).


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## ClaudeR

lenny said:


> I'm in Buffalo, New York. All my OTA locals get remapped except for channel 2 which is NBC. It's call letters are WGRZ (www.wgrz.com) and the digital channel is located on channel 33. The identical thing happened with L188. I was hoping it would get fixed with L211 but I guess not. So is it a PSIP thing or something else?
> Lenny


I'm in Buffalo too, but I've only had dish for 4 days. Major changes in remapping with L211 - I can now add them to favorites.  I don't get much play time on the 921, too much work (and forum review).


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## boylehome

Jim_R said:


> But, when using the Menu, TV Listing, Search feature, selecting the remapped analog local returned in the search results causes the analog local to be recorded (not the digital) and also displays the red dot next to the remapped analog local.


I was under the impression that analog channels could not be recorded with the 921 digital DVR. Do you actually mean the digital sub-channel (4:3 aspect ratio) like 02, -03 etc.?


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## William_K_F

Hi,

I can no longer add KNTVDT broadcast 49 assigned 48-2 (paired with Telemundo).

It worked fine before the upgrade, but now I can't add it. I try to manually add it, signal locks, but doesn't get aquired.

Also can't get KRCB boardcast 23 assigned 22-1. Not positive I had this one before, but the signal seems strong but won't aquire it.

Thanks.

-William


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## lenny

ClaudeR said:


> I'm in Buffalo too, but I've only had dish for 4 days. Major changes in remapping with L211 - I can now add them to favorites.  I don't get much play time on the 921, too much work (and forum review).


When you readd'ed the OTA channels does your wgrz get remapped or does it stay at channel 33?

Also, I just tried adding the OTA channels to my favorites and they didn't take. I know someone else posted something that said they had to try it a couple times.
I'll try doing it again.

Lenny


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## JD Robinson

KATV 22 (ABC) and KLRT 30 (FOX), both in Little Rock, did not show up after I deleted my OTA digitals and re-scanned. I rescanned twice, but nothing. Adding manually, signal strengths were 95 and 120 respectively, so I have no idea what the problem could have been -- trying to find the sat guide info for mapping, maybe? KATV had PSIP problems that prevented recording OTA in 188, but KLRT was always a rock.

Ironically the scan did find KARK 32 (NBC) which is a weak-ass SD-only signal, typically 60-65 for me even though they broadcast from the same mountain as KLRT. (The station is a local embarrassment to HD buffs 'round here...)


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## JM Anthony

The Seattle PBS affiliate (KCTS) has 4 digital subchannels. Rather than show up as 009-0X KCTS, 2 of them show up as 041-01 R141 (41 is their assigned frequency), another shows up as 041-02 R141. The first has program information and is channel 009-01. The second does not and should be 009-05 judging from program content.


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## Jim_R

Samich said:


> Not a problematic bug, but, I live in the Denver area (Littleton), the PBS channel KBDI 12, digital 38 that used to be remapped to 12 is no longer remapped, it now shows up as channel 38 with the call sign "Rf38". The other OTA locals re-mapped in correctly with the correct call signs. At least it works, it's very important to have PBS kids on 038-02 for the little one in the house.


I thought this was a fix for PSIP issues. In my area OTA HD channel 036-01 (WJYS 36) would show up on a scan, but when selected for viewing was a black screen with no sound. Now with L211, this channel appears in the Guide as 036-01 Rf36.


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## Jim_R

boylehome said:


> I was under the impression that analog channels could not be recorded with the 921 digital DVR. Do you actually mean the digital sub-channel (4:3 aspect ratio) like 02, -03 etc.?


No, I notice that the 921 uses one of the SAT tuners to record the non-OTA HD channel (remapped local). The remapped local must be remapped from the SAT provided local channel.


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## sampatterson

Rescanned all DTV stations. It found them all. But there seems to be a possibly new multipath rejection problem with L211...

I have been able to tune all Atlanta DTV channels since L188 - no breakups, solid picture on both of my 921s.

With L211 now we can't watch WAGA (17), WUPA (43), WPXA (51), and WATL (25). Lots of breakups and "acquiring signal" screens. No rain, clear night, no wind. No reason except for L211.

I do have quite a bit of multipath but L188 was solid, no issues and I checked each station before the machines were rebooted to start the install of L211.

Also PSIP remapping issues on WPXA (should remap to 14.X) and isn't.


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## FaxMan

sampatterson said:


> Rescanned all DTV stations. It found them all. But there seems to be a possibly new multipath rejection problem with L211...
> 
> I have been able to tune all Atlanta DTV channels since L188 - no breakups, solid picture on both of my 921s.
> 
> With L211 now we can't watch WAGA (17), WUPA (43), WPXA (51), and WATL (25). Lots of breakups and "acquiring signal" screens. No rain, clear night, no wind. No reason except for L211.
> 
> I do have quite a bit of multipath but L188 was solid, no issues and I checked each station before the machines were rebooted to start the install of L211.
> 
> Also PSIP remapping issues on WPXA (should remap to 14.X) and isn't.


I wonder if multipath rejection might be involved in my new inability to scan or manually add our local PBS DT (32). It shows lock with varying signal, but doesn't get added.

I'm checking more and fiddling with the antenna before getting too exercised about it.

John


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## Jim_R

Chicago, IL

WJYS OTA DT signal appears as 036-01 Rf36; the LiL remapped local appears as 62 - WJYS. The local guide data does not appear in the listings for 036-01 Rf36.

Prior to L211, the 911 detected an OTA digital signal on 36-01, but would not display picture or sound.


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## Michael P

gpflepsen said:


> I cannot add my analog OTA stations, WB KXVO 15 and FOX KPTM 42.
> 
> After getting 211, I deleted all OTAs, digital and analog. I scanned in DTVs and they tuned. I then scan in analogs. They show on the Local Channels screen (menu 6-8) but will not tune. I deleted all channels, scanned in OTA analog and they won't tune. I deleted them, added the analog channels again one at a time and they won't tune in. As I sit now, I can't view any OTA analog channels, period.
> 
> I had done a reboot after clearing the channels, then tried it again with no luck.
> 
> Boot 150B
> Flash F053
> SW L211HEED-N
> 
> Any suggestions?


Same thing happened to me. I called Dish tech support and we both found out the fix together. There is a new check box in the "Preferences" "More" menu to "Enable Off-Air Antenna Locals". When 2.11 downloads this box is not checked. The result was after the downloan only the digital OTA's were in the EPG. The name of this checkbox is a little confusing in that it only affects the ananlog OTA's. From reading other posts here I think this box has to be unchecked for the local program guide info to map from the LIL's (another fine idea from our friends at E*  )

The tech is putting this one in his notebook for future calls.


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## Michael P

On a positive note the "no trick play / 0 min recording error" is fixed for WJW-DT! (the Cleveland FOX O&O)


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## Skates

from Xsailor:



> I now have KCOP with OTA (didn't prior to 211).


Thanks Xsailor - I can't tell what the 921 is doing. It seems to be acting differently than it used to, i.e., I would just get a blank screen - period.

Now, it says "acquiring signal", then "66.1 not found". But we're also having a lot of rain in the valley and the signal seems to be fluctuatinng between about 75% and 0%.

I'm gonna wait for a clear day and see what happens. It's the last of my OTA issues.


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## ats

seadoo said:


> Mark:
> 
> (2) I am in Tri-Cities TN that has locals even though I dont subscribe. After two days I still have no guide data. NO INFORMATION is all I get.


Dish has announced that if you do not subscribe to the locals for your market, you will not get the guide data. :nono2:


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## seadoo

ats said:


> Dish has announced that if you do not subscribe to the locals for your market, you will not get the guide data. :nono2:


ATS: Is that somewhere in these many posts? I thought Mark said in his original notes said that you didnt have to subscribe to locals to get guide OTA.


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## Avillant

I have always had problems with WPBF (Analog 25 and DT 16) remapping, but with my 6000 and 811 I was always able to receive it on 16-1 although it is a very weak station. I got my 921 at the price drop and I have never been able to recieve 16-1 at all. The signal varies between 0 and about 70. After L211 there did not seem to be much change on this station. The night before last, I was able to lock it in, but it came in on 16-2 which is very strange.

Yesterday, I called WPBF and asked why they did not remap. They said they planned to soon. I guess I must have rattled the right chain, because last night I saw an entry on a local web site that said that they were now receiving 16-1 on 25-1. Immediately, I checked my receiver and found it to be true. The station was coming in fine with a signal of about 70. Apparently, L211 still does not work well when stations do not remap. All other stations in my area remap okay.

I do have the problem that I do not seem to be able to add 25-1 to a favorites list even though it does appear in the 'all' and 'all sub' lists.

Software - L211HEED-N
Boot - 150B
Flash - F053
Located in Margate, FL

All things considered, I am very happy with L211. I have only minor problems like the red dot not appearing in the guide when a program is selected to record and the above mentioned favorites problem.

This is probably not the place to mention this, but I really wish that the timer menu would have two more options added to it. You should be allowed to specify HD or SD and also the formatting information. As it is, you now have to set these two parameters manually before the timer fires.

Tony


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## Mark Lamutt

seadoo said:


> ATS: Is that somewhere in these many posts? I thought Mark said in his original notes said that you didnt have to subscribe to locals to get guide OTA.


I've gone back and revised my original release notes. And posted a new sticky thread at the top of the forum about it. You do currently have to subscribe to locals to get the guide data.


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## pesla5439

Love the new software, but still can't aquire wkyc digital. All other channels in the area show a near max stength signal and I'm located less then 8 mile from the tower. Any suggestions?


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## MooseTyln

I live in the Rochester MN area approx 30 miles from 3 digital OTA towers. All 3 of them show >107 on the signal meter and green status, but won't save to the channel list. Analogs are working fine. Have tried with analogs removed as well. And unplugged to reboot.

KTTC NBC Rochester, MN Analog 10, Digital 36 www.kttc.com

KXLT FOX Rochester, MN Analog 47, Digital 46 www.fox47kxlt.com

KSMQ PBS Austin, MN Analog 15, Digital 20 www.ksmq.org

921 was at firmware 1.88 and now at 2.11, channels did not save with either.

Old Dish 6000 was able to tune these channels.

Spent 45 minutes chatting with an 'advanced technical support' fella at Dish. Re-tried everything I've tried with the same result.


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## Michael P

pesla5439 said:


> Love the new software, but still can't aquire wkyc digital. All other channels in the area show a near max stength signal and I'm located less then 8 mile from the tower. Any suggestions?


I can see WKYC from my back yard. Sometimes it takes awhile for the 921 to get a signal lock!?! Ditto for WOIO. Thanks to 2.11 I can now see what is going on. Whenever I tune to WOIO the banner comes up on a black screen. The new signals strength meter jumps arond form 70 to 0 and back before pinning at 125. I get no picture until the signal strength is over 100 (once in awhile I get a pixillated picture before the signal "stabilizes").

I haven't checked since getting 2.11, but I presume that WKYC does the same thing. This problem (long acquisition time) only affects these two stations.

What do these two stations have in common? They are both operating digitallly in the VHF band! Perhaps this is a 2.11 bug that needs to be reported. Why would I get 0, or 70 signal strength when the freakin' towers light up the skyline in my neighborhood?

BTW: I still can't get a lock on WVIZ, I get a lock but it never "acquires". The signal strength acts in a similar fashon (70, 0, 70 etc.). It makes me wonder about the accuracy of the signal strength meter. Every weak ASTC signal can't hit exactly at 70 as often as this meter does.

BTW #2: How is your picture on WOIO? I get pulsating reds and occasional green stripes in the picture (before and after 2.11).

I hope you can get a lock WKYC soon. They are the only Cleveland station using subchannels (unles you consider WDLI a "Cleveland" station). 003-2 is the SD version (but they don't give enough bandwidth to this subchannel - it pixillates often) 003-3 is their doppler radar screen 24/7


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## Mark Lamutt

Michael - three possibilities why you're having problems with your very close stations: 

You may be experiencing severe multipath reception from them, in which case you need a highly directional antenna. You may be experiencing signal overload from them (ie you're receiving a signal that is TOO strong - yes this is a problem), in which case you need a signal attenuator tuned to those specific frequencies. Or, there certainly could still be problems with the 921's OTA side.


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## Michael P

Mark Lamutt said:


> Michael - three possibilities why you're having problems with your very close stations:
> 
> You may be experiencing severe multipath reception from them, in which case you need a highly directional antenna. You may be experiencing signal overload from them (ie you're receiving a signal that is TOO strong - yes this is a problem), in which case you need a signal attenuator tuned to those specific frequencies. Or, there certainly could still be problems with the 921's OTA side.


A too strong signal is definitly a possibility here. The strange thing is once the 921 settles down (thanks to 2.11 having the signal strength in the browser), I usually have no more problems (except for WOIO). There was at least one other Clevelander having a similar problem, and he lived farther away from the antenna farm, so signal strength may not be the reson for the pulsing reds or green stripes.

I'm currently using an omnidirectional antenna, due to the fact that my locals come at me from different directions (over 90 degrees seperate the Cleveland statons from here, add to that arc the Akron, Canton, and Youngstown stations (I get 2 of the analog Youngstown stations with a bow tie on my upstairs bedroom TV).

Fortunately the only VHF digital signals come from the same direction. Once the weather get better I may try a VHF only antenna aimed NNW. Unfortunately Winter is just arriving now so I may have to live with these problems until Spring


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## Skates

from ME a couple of days back:


> Now, it says "acquiring signal", then "66.1 not found". But we're also having a lot of rain in the valley and the signal seems to be fluctuating between about 75% and 0%.


I said I'd wait for a clear day and report back...well I finally got back home.

The rain cleared out, and I was getting a whopping 91% on KCOP, but still nothing but a blank screen.

I did the only thing I hadn't tried- instead of just doing a re-scan, I deleted KCOP from my list, then did a reboot, then did a new scan.

It worked. I now have KCOP for the first time since acquiring the 921, and trick play works!


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## pesla5439

No problems here with WOIO. Still no luck with WKYC - Guess I'll keep trying to get the signal to lock on.


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## joebird

Trick play features do not work at all on the main (04-01) station. They work fine for the sub-channel (04-02).

Details of my fun can be found here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36283


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## seadoo

Mark:

Why is it when I am recording on an OTA channel the RED DOT record indicator shows up on Channel 261????? and not on the the channel it is actually recording?


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## TonyB

seadoo said:


> Mark:
> 
> Why is it when I am recording on an OTA channel the RED DOT record indicator shows up on Channel 261????? and not on the the channel it is actually recording?


This is a known bug in 211. Expect it to get fixed - sometime.


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## Grandude

joebird said:


> Trick play features do not work at all on the main (04-01) station. They work fine for the sub-channel (04-02).
> 
> Details of my fun can be found here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36283


Joebird,
I have had the same and worse problems with KRON. I won't bore you with the details, they are in the thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36252
In my case, I lost all programs on my hard drive. More than 100 hours backed up waiting to be viewed.

Brian


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## joebird

Brian,

I heard a similar horror story from Jeff Sanders. I guess I got lucky...I've not seen any 0 second recordings (ever). My 921 got better the next day, and has been pretty stable since. Jeff said he lost all his recordings, and he had some real stuff on his disk that was fairly old.

Joe


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## JGentel

I am now missing the WB in Detroit. It was working fine before this upgrade. I have removed and reloaded all DTV and WB HD channel 21 did not load. You mentioned earlier to unplug the 921 or at least remove the card should I do this ?


Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052
SW version: L211HECD-N


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## Michael P

seadoo said:


> Mark:
> 
> Why is it when I am recording on an OTA channel the RED DOT record indicator shows up on Channel 261????? and not on the the channel it is actually recording?


What happens if you actually want to record something off ch 261? I don;t have the LIL's so my OTA's are still have no data (and if you click on the EPG of an OTA you get "Mon. 8:00 PM Dec 31, 2029" followed by the next program also at "Mon. 8:00 PM Dec 31, 2029" 
:nono2:


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## seadoo

Michael P said:


> What happens if you actually want to record something off ch 261? I don;t have the LIL's so my OTA's are still have no data (and if you click on the EPG of an OTA you get "Mon. 8:00 PM Dec 31, 2029" followed by the next program also at "Mon. 8:00 PM Dec 31, 2029"
> :nono2:


Mine have no data either. I record using the timers.


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## lenny

lenny said:


> I'm in Buffalo, New York. All my OTA locals get remapped except for channel 2 which is NBC. It's call letters are WGRZ (www.wgrz.com) and the digital channel is located on channel 33.
> [...]
> 
> Lenny


Contacted the station and they had something wrong with their equipment. They replaced the equipment and this now works for me. So all my OTA digital stations are fine, that is, they all remapped and have the guide associated with each channel. 

Lenny


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## JGentel

JGentel said:


> I am now missing the WB in Detroit. It was working fine before this upgrade. I have removed and reloaded all DTV and WB HD channel 21 did not load. You mentioned earlier to unplug the 921 or at least remove the card should I do this ?
> 
> Boot Version: 140B
> Flash Version: F052
> SW version: L211HECD-N


I did unplug and everything is now wonderful.


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## Stingray

_Originally Posted by JGentel
I am now missing the WB in Detroit. _

JGentel - Do you get program information on the guide and banner on your Digital OTA channels.

I don't and wondered if it a problem in this area or just my receiver.


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## markcollins

Mark lamutt-Also has anyone brought up that The local remapped Guide is out of sync with Local broadcasts due I guess to retransmission delays.It makes setting a timer Impossible unless you start 1 min early.With only 1 OTA tuner then you can not reasonably record back to back shows OTA.This is a very good reason this type Of OTA guide is unacceptable.Has Eldon been notified of this?


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## WillSad

Prior to downloading 211 I was able to all OTA seattle area channels except for ABC (38.01) which came in intermitantly. Post 211, ABC comes in great but I have lost CBS(39.01). I've deleted all OTA channels, pulled the power plug, and rescanned OTA. the 921 is able to detect and hit all OTA channels except CBS(39.01).

Prior to getting a 921, I had an HD tunner for the Pioneer HD510pro and CBS was one of the channels that never had reception problems.

Any thoughts on work around I can apply here?

Location: Seattle, WA
Channel 39.01 (Kiro7)
www.kirotv.com
TV Pioneer HD 510Pro

will


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## jsanders

WillSad said:


> Prior to downloading 211 I was able to all OTA seattle area channels except for ABC (38.01) which came in intermitantly. Post 211, ABC comes in great but I have lost CBS(39.01). I've deleted all OTA channels, pulled the power plug, and rescanned OTA. the 921 is able to detect and hit all OTA channels except CBS(39.01).


WillSad, You need to write this up as a bug report in the bug reports forum:
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=80

Be as detailed as possible about what you see. If you do a manual "Add DTV", with the frequency for that channel (not the channel number), do you see a strong signal? Make sure you mention that.

Give a phone number as well as website for the station.
Also, you need to give your software version, boot version, and flash version information to have the report be valid, along with a poll.


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## BobMurdoch

One thing they changed that is a pain (I don't know if it is a "bug" per se but they changed the way they did things previously for the worse........

This occurs when watching a recorded program at the same time that both tuners are in use recording 2 other channels.....

The recorded program ends and instead of asking you which channel to watch live (when you close the recording) it asks you which channel to STOP recording so you can then go back to the channel you were watching BEFORE you started watching your recording. This is a LOUSY choice. The old way was better as it took you to the middle of one of your active recordings. I can get around it by opening another recording while watching another one, but I can't delete a watched program anymore until one of the timers frees up.

ALSO, when watching a recorded program (with or without active timers), my 921 won't let me "clean up" any recordings I don't want anymore. It lets me check off the recordings, but as soon as I get to the point in the list where the recording I am watching is located it kicks me out of the menu to the active picture feed being watched and unchecks all of the recordings I wanted to delete. The only way to get aroun the problem is to stop the recording playback and delete them while a live channel is playing.


----------



## Walt C

Mark Lamutt said:


> Please post any OTA related bugs to this thread.
> 
> Mark,
> OTA problems: Albuquerque KOB 004-01 is missing - just won't scan in. Always a strong channel with L188. I used to have a 007-02 KOAT, but it too is gone. And KASA 002-01 is flaky. Scans in, but when selected, half the time it won't come up. THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF HD PROGRAMMING  - TELL ME HOW TO GO BACK TO L188!!! No red dot on OTA - so I'm sticking with the manual timer setup. No confidence in L211.
> 
> Walt
> Model ID: DishDVR 921
> Boot Version:140B
> Flash Version: F052
> Software Version: L211HECD-ND
> Location ID 192C76AE
> Albuquerque, NM


----------



## JGentel

Stingray said:


> _Originally Posted by JGentel
> I am now missing the WB in Detroit. _
> 
> JGentel - Do you get program information on the guide and banner on your Digital OTA channels.
> 
> I don't and wondered if it a problem in this area or just my receiver.


Stingray I do not get any program info just the program name. I think I responded to your email before understanding your question. OOPs.


----------



## lujan

Walt C said:


> Mark Lamutt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please post any OTA related bugs to this thread.
> 
> Mark,
> OTA problems: Albuquerque KOB 004-01 is missing - just won't scan in. Always a strong channel with L188. I used to have a 007-02 KOAT, but it too is gone. And KASA 002-01 is flaky. Scans in, but when selected, half the time it won't come up. THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF HD PROGRAMMING  - TELL ME HOW TO GO BACK TO L188!!! No red dot on OTA - so I'm sticking with the manual timer setup. No confidence in L211.
> 
> Walt
> Model ID: DishDVR 921
> Boot Version:140B
> Flash Version: F052
> Software Version: L211HECD-ND
> Location ID 192C76AE
> Albuquerque, NM
> 
> 
> 
> Just to let you know Walt. I haven't been able to get KOB since April. Also, 007-02 is permanently gone. I spoke with an engineer at KOAT and he said they were getting rid of all their sub stations, so 007-01 is the only DT station for KOAT. I have not had any problems with 002-01.
Click to expand...


----------



## sgt940

Ok, I have not posted my bugs as I thought 211 was the answer to all problems, under 189 my unit was very stable, under 211 the manual stop does not work, the caller id stops working until a reboot and last night I had a call while watching a HD OTA program and after 20 minutes tried to back up to watch from the beginning, when I backed up to the start and than hit play it would go back to the beginning of the hard drive 1.5 hours early, nothing could get you back to a specific spot in the que. the delay time kept showing 1,549 minutes delayed. SO I NOW HAVE A UNSTABLE UNIT AGAIN. Posting the problems is not worth the effort. MARK I HAVE ONE QUESTION IS DISH HOME ALSO NO LONGER AN OPTION? Based on this I will take action to recover my money and it won't be via words in this form. Charter cable is releasing thier HD DVR this month, enough said.


----------



## knealy

My locals from Dish appear in the 8000 series channels (8220, 8221, etc.). I was under the impression that these locals from Dish (not OTA locals) would be remapped to correspond to their local numbers, i.e. 2,4,5,7, etc. These normal channel numbers (2,4,5,7...) show up in the choices for listing in my favorites, but when I select them for display, they're not there. Nor do they show up in the All Channels view of the guide.

There there a preference somewhere that I haven't set? I haven't found anything like this.

My OTA digital channels now appear in the guide as 002-1, 002-2, etc. and have program info (though it's nearly always wrong).

Which source is supposed to show up on the guide for locals as 2,4,5,7 etc? Is it my locals from Dish, or my OTA local analog channels from my antenna?


----------



## guruka

Walt said:


> Albuquerque KOB 004-01 is missing - just won't scan in. Always a strong channel with L188. I used to have a 007-02 KOAT, but it too is gone. And KASA 002-01 is flaky.


Walt - this is NOT a 921 problem. KOB's signal has been off air. 007-02 is SD and same as 007-01, why watch it? KASA is usually fine.

Check out the ABQ-HD AVS Forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4828534#post4828534

.....G


----------



## Walt C

guruka said:


> Walt - this is NOT a 921 problem. KOB's signal has been off air. 007-02 is SD and same as 007-01, why watch it? KASA is usually fine.
> 
> Thanks,
> After trying multiple times I finally added Ch 4. I don't know why it wouldn't scan in along with the others, but anyway it's good now. Watching TV is certainly a lot harder than it used to be!
> 
> Walt


----------



## Curmudgeon

michaelL said:


> Sorry, I did not think anyone would care about the details...
> 
> I live in Durham, NC. The channels are 022-01 WLFL broadcasting on channel 57 and 028-01 WRDL broadcasting on 27.
> 
> Like a anamorphic squeeze. After a more test I have found that every time I got the squeezed video is after I tried to tune to the two channels above.
> 
> Also, I tried removing and readding 022-01 and 028-01 from the "local channels". They are now working. I have not seen the squeezed video since. Hopefully that fixed the problem.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


Are you absolutely sure of those numbers?! I'm in Charlotte and we have two digital channels on those frequencies (22.1 and 28.1) Just seems kinda close to have two cities with channels using the same frequencies.


----------



## invaliduser88

When recording a program or watching a previously recorded program, pressing the format button '*' does not change the screen format of the unit.

Anyone else have this problem?


----------



## scottyb

Hey anybody,

I can't program my local sub channels into favorites. Is this normal? I can program the locals but not the sub locals. Any and all help appreciated.

Scott


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Scott - 

Try this - add the main channel along with the subchannels to a favorites list. Press Done, then Done. Check the list by pulling up the guide to make sure they are all listed. Then, edit the favorites list and uncheck the main channel. Done, Done, then check guide again. I just did this with my 921 and my favorites list showed only the subchannels, not the main channels.


----------



## lenny

Mark Lamutt said:


> Scott -
> 
> Try this - add the main channel along with the subchannels to a favorites list. Press Done, then Done. Check the list by pulling up the guide to make sure they are all listed. Then, edit the favorites list and uncheck the main channel. Done, Done, then check guide again. I just did this with my 921 and my favorites list showed only the subchannels, not the main channels.


Ah, that's how you do it. Yup, that worked for me. I had the same problem as Scott.

Thanks,
Lenny


----------



## lenny

invaliduser88 said:


> When recording a program or watching a previously recorded program, pressing the format button '*' does not change the screen format of the unit.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?


This works fine for me. What outputs are you using to your tv and/or monitor? Also, in your System Setup -> Display Setup menu what output mode are you using?

Lenny


----------



## seadoo

For the past several days I have had to reboot my 921 to get the HD/SD INPUT Toggle to work. Anybody else having this problem?


----------



## knealy

No


----------



## Guest

yes


----------



## Guest

My SD/HD seems to stop working, and what's weird is that it happens when I want to take my TV viewing to the bedroom. That's always late in the day. I have another TV the 921 feeds in the shop, and I don't think I've ever had that not work. That would be daytime use.

A re-boot fixes it, but I never feel like going down to the 921 from the bedroom to fix it.

Could it be a time thing? Perhaps the 921 is losing memory throughout the day and after 6-8 hrs of being on, it freezes.


----------



## Tom in TX

Perhaps the 921 is losing memory throughout the day after 6-8 hrs 
Kinda like my 85 year old mother!!!!!


----------



## AVJohnnie

seadoo said:


> For the past several days I have had to reboot my 921 to get the HD/SD INPUT Toggle to work. Anybody else having this problem?


Yup -- Started with L211, along with the non-responsive aspect/format '*' key issue, referenced here in other threads.


----------



## bbomar

seadoo said:


> For the past several days I have had to reboot my 921 to get the HD/SD INPUT Toggle to work. Anybody else having this problem?


My wife frequently toggles the SD/HD button to record something on
a standard VHS tape. Under L211 we frequently have to reboot to
get the SD/HD button to work (like at least a time or two a week).
Whenever this happens, we can usually select system setup - display
and get the 921 to go to SD 480i mode without rebooting, but usually
we just do a 921 reboot. Whenever this happens the format '*' button
is also nonresponsive. I don't recall having this problem prior to L211.


----------



## seadoo

1. When I am recording something on OTA my PIP doesnt work. Once recording stops it still doesnt work. Have to reboot to get it working.

2. If I start an OTA recording manually, 921 doesnt then allow me to tune to non OTA without stopping recording.


----------



## Lawood

seadoo said:


> For the past several days I have had to reboot my 921 to get the HD/SD INPUT Toggle to work. Anybody else having this problem?


Yes I am seeing the same problem. Also my * stops working also. By going to Menu 6/9 I can switch back and forth by selecting 1080i or 470i. This problem has happened twice now. Also the buttons will work again after the unit is powered down over night.
Leonard


----------



## Tarpon65

Had my 921 installed on Monday 1/3 replacing a 6000 receiver. It would not take the L211 update while the installer was here, but after rebooting several times and leaving the power button off, per Dish Tech's request, it did finally take the update 6 hours later. After updating I tried to scan for my OTA locals out of Tampa/St. Pete ( I am in Sarasota) but was only able to lock in on WFTS Channel 28. In the past I was able to lock in on this channel as well as WTSP 10, WTVT 13, WEDU 3, and WFLA 8 using my 6000 receiver. I called Tech support and at first they told me these stations must be powered down. I told them this was not a logical excuse and did confirm these stations were transmitting by contacting people on a Tampa HD forum. Tech support return my call later last night and he said this OTA issue was a known problem with the 921 and it would take a software update to fix it. He suggested I hook up my antenna to my 6000 receiver and view the OTA channels thru it, although he said the 6000 might not work without any satellite feed. He said to try this and if need be they would send out an installer to run another satellite feed to the 6000. My software is L211 with boot version 150B.


----------



## bbomar

Tarpon65 said:


> Tech support return my call later last night and he said this OTA issue was a known problem with the 921 and it would take a software update to fix it.


Maybe someone else has heard this but I have not. I get both Nashville, TN
and Huntsville, AL stations (each about 50 miles away) on the 921 with
an outside antenna. Maybe the 6000 (which I do not have) is a little more
sensitive. I'd be currious about your OTA antenna setup. Perhaps all
you need is a little more signal which you could get with an antenna
amplifier or better antenna cable.


----------



## knealy

bbomar said:


> Maybe someone else has heard this but I have not. I get both Nashville, TN
> and Huntsville, AL stations (each about 50 miles away) on the 921 with
> an outside antenna. Maybe the 6000 (which I do not have) is a little more
> sensitive. I'd be currious about your OTA antenna setup. Perhaps all
> you need is a little more signal which you could get with an antenna
> amplifier or better antenna cable.


I get about 20 OTA digital channels in the SF Bay Area. Not all are broadcasting, but about 14 or more are. Most are upconverted analog. Three or four are HD, all on my 921 under L211. Most are received at a signal level of 100 or better.


----------



## oxy8384

San Diego - KGTV channel 10 (25 digital) - channel 10-1 is black and silent with a strong signal but channel 25-2 (no guide data) is where I need to watch KGTV (ABC). I read on a local HDTV forum that they had recently changed something in their broadcast signal to comply with a new FCC change and was told to ask "will changing the PMT to hex 30 lock up the 921"?

Here is the quote from that other forum. (Note that a power cord reset and DTV rescan did NOT cure my problem):
"Attention all DTV viewers. The A53 standards for DTV call for a change in the digital data stream. The change locks up some OTA receivers, and cable. The change is set for 1/1/05. We did a test and it locked up our DTC 100, and cable. The newer Zenith box was ok. we are working with cable, and our legal people to see if this is a drop dead date. I suggest you contact the maker of your OTA box, and ask if changing the "PMT to hex30" will lock up your box. And if they have an update for it. Do it now Alias is coming."
This message was posted by Ron Eden at KGTV: [email protected]


----------



## aginzu

KCAH (PBS) in the Monterey Bay market is in the Dishnetwork locals for this area, however the OTA guide is not, even though the station comes in quite well at my location.


----------



## knealy

oxy8384 said:


> San Diego - KGTV channel 10 (25 digital) - channel 10-1 is black and silent with a strong signal but channel 25-2 (no guide data) is where I need to watch KGTV (ABC). I read on a local HDTV forum that they had recently changed something in their broadcast signal to comply with a new FCC change and was told to ask "will changing the PMT to hex 30 lock up the 921"?
> 
> Here is the quote from that other forum. (Note that a power cord reset and DTV rescan did NOT cure my problem):
> "Attention all DTV viewers. The A53 standards for DTV call for a change in the digital data stream. The change locks up some OTA receivers, and cable. The change is set for 1/1/05. We did a test and it locked up our DTC 100, and cable. The newer Zenith box was ok. we are working with cable, and our legal people to see if this is a drop dead date. I suggest you contact the maker of your OTA box, and ask if changing the "PMT to hex30" will lock up your box. And if they have an update for it. Do it now Alias is coming."
> This message was posted by Ron Eden at KGTV: [email protected]


Not sure what they mean by "lock up your box." I get a number of OTA locals with black screens and strong signal strength. I've always assumed that they are in some kind of standby or test mode and are just putting out a carrier with no program data.

Since I can get many other digital OTA channels, which I imagine some must conform to current regulations, I have to assume the answer to your question is: No it doesn't lock up the 921.


----------



## oxy8384

I ended up deleting all my locals and rescanning and the KGTV problem was fixed. Unfortunately, I lost some channels, too. Probably because my antenna has been knocked out of alignment. I'll fix that this weekend.


----------



## boylehome

Up until the release of L2.11, I haven't been able to receive digital channel 34, KRCR. The station doesn't provide PSIP and there is no channel remapping. When I was receiving it, no EPG information was available. As of about Jan. 01, 2005, the 921 can no longer acquire after locking on KRCR's digital signal.

I called the Chief Engineer who explained that the problem is at their end being, ice formed in one of the components on the digital antenna atop Balley Mountain. The signal is still at 82, it hasn't changed. My 6000 still will receive the digital signal and will show video and audio. 

The 921 acts just like it did with this digital channel before L211.


----------



## boylehome

oxy8384 said:


> San Diego - KGTV channel 10 (25 digital) - channel 10-1 is black and silent with a strong signal but channel 25-2 (no guide data) is where I need to watch KGTV (ABC). I read on a local HDTV forum that they had recently changed something in their broadcast signal to comply with a new FCC change and was told to ask "will changing the PMT to hex 30 lock up the 921"?


This is interesting and I wonder if there are other digital channels that are now out of operation because of the, "PMT to hex 30" change? This perhaps is why I get the black video/no audio with a good signal for KRCR TV Digital channel 34-01 and 34-02. Before 01-01-2005 the 921 showed KRCR as the, "R19" (no channel remapping only station ID listed-EPG showed no guide information). When I lost this channel I talked to the Chief Engineer who made no mention of any change.


----------



## knealy

If I am recording two HD or OTA digital programs at once and stop one of them (which is pretty hard to do, except by accident), I cannot then record a second program live that I am watching even though I've freed up one of the tuners. It tells me that I must stop the single one that is currently recording. Has this always been the case?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

knealy - please post this as a bug report in the bug reports forum.


----------



## knealy

Mark Lamutt said:


> knealy - please post this as a bug report in the bug reports forum.


Sorry. Thought this was the bug reports forum.


----------



## NukeBug

BobMurdoch said:


> One thing they changed that is a pain (I don't know if it is a "bug" per se but they changed the way they did things previously for the worse........
> 
> This occurs when watching a recorded program at the same time that both tuners are in use recording 2 other channels.....
> 
> The recorded program ends and instead of asking you which channel to watch live (when you close the recording) it asks you which channel to STOP recording so you can then go back to the channel you were watching BEFORE you started watching your recording. This is a LOUSY choice. The old way was better as it took you to the middle of one of your active recordings. I can get around it by opening another recording while watching another one, but I can't delete a watched program anymore until one of the timers frees up.
> 
> ALSO, when watching a recorded program (with or without active timers), my 921 won't let me "clean up" any recordings I don't want anymore. It lets me check off the recordings, but as soon as I get to the point in the list where the recording I am watching is located it kicks me out of the menu to the active picture feed being watched and unchecks all of the recordings I wanted to delete. The only way to get aroun the problem is to stop the recording playback and delete them while a live channel is playing.


I am having this EXACT same problem and I am using the same 'work around'.... plus my OTA channels have not guide data and I do not subscribe to the locals on dish (Amarillo, TX).


----------



## awp

Any status on the following bugs:

1) Call ID info disappearing. My 921 has stopped recording and displaying call id info since Dec 24th.

2) The surf "up" bug: When I am watching a local (from Satellite) channel on its re-mapped local channel (Rochester NY WHEC channel Analog 10) and I press "up" on my remote to move up to the OTA remapped digital 10-1 (rf #58). (WHEC-DT), it does nothing. I can hit "guide", then "up", then "select" or direct dial "0101" to directly access the OTA digital channel fine. 

The same thing occurs on my other local OTA mapped digital channels.

921 211HEED


----------



## lenny

awp said:


> Any status on the following bugs:
> 1) Call ID info disappearing. My 921 has stopped recording and displaying call id info since Dec 24th.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> If you want it to work for a little while just soft boot the machine. Caller id will then work for a couple hours. Since you're in Rochester you may also have Verizon (but I know there's a little phone company in your area and you may be with them). I'm with Verizon and it seems the problem is worse when you have them as your provider. Some people don't even see the problem with other phone companies.
> 
> Lenny


----------



## balcy

My 921 did something new last night. Had only one timer set to record OTA (FOX KTVI St. Louis) while I was watching another OTA channel (CBS KMOV St. Louis). I left the room and came back after the timer fired and the TV was on the recording channel. Hmmm, I thought that was strange then realized I couldn't change channels without stopping the recording (said there were no tuners available). DAMN! So I thought maybe it was an OTA issue (since both currently were OTA HD programs) so I tried re-starting the recording from the satellite local channel 84xx and got the usual "record from here" menu and noticed the program showing was from 3:30 PM (Eagles/Vikes game) when it was now 7:45 PM. Have no idea why this happened and had just rebooted the receiver around 1 PM or so...  The receiver would restart recording the correct program but refused to let me change channels. Also, the guide appeared OK but I never did get the red dot when setting the timer earlier in the day (may be a clue)... 

I undertand why hard resets are needed sometimes but now it is needed several times a day (no small feat with the 4+ minute delay)...


----------



## awp

lenny said:


> awp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any status on the following bugs:
> 1) Call ID info disappearing. My 921 has stopped recording and displaying call id info since Dec 24th.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> If you want it to work for a little while just soft boot the machine. Caller id will then work for a couple hours. Since you're in Rochester you may also have Verizon (but I know there's a little phone company in your area and you may be with them). I'm with Verizon and it seems the problem is worse when you have them as your provider. Some people don't even see the problem with other phone companies.
> 
> Lenny
> 
> 
> 
> I have Frontier Telephone as my telco. My 6000 receiver call ID works fine.
Click to expand...


----------



## lenny

awp said:


> I have Frontier Telephone as my telco. My 6000 receiver call ID works fine.


Yeah, after Bell Atlantic bought the wireless division from Frontier I wasn't sure if the phone company also changed names. But, I guess it wasn't purchased with the wireless part so it kept it's name.

Anyways, yes my other receivers have caller id working fine too. The problem is with the 921. ATS said that the software stops communicating with the modem card. I know what you're thinking, that if it stops speaking with the modem card then how is everyone else working fine all the time and we're not. I can't answer that since it doesn't make sense but that is what was told to me.

They are supposed to be working on the problem and I hope it's fixed in the next release.

Lenny


----------



## awp

Can We get a feature to have OTA (Digital and analog) channel scans to optionally NOT delete already defined channels. 

THe reason is I have to point my rooftop antenna to different locations. I don't want to lose the Buffalo OTAs when I point to Rochester.


----------



## knealy

balcy said:


> My 921 did something new last night. Had only one timer set to record OTA (FOX KTVI St. Louis) while I was watching another OTA channel (CBS KMOV St. Louis). I left the room and came back after the timer fired and the TV was on the recording channel. Hmmm, I thought that was strange then realized I couldn't change channels without stopping the recording (said there were no tuners available). DAMN! So I thought maybe it was an OTA issue (since both currently were OTA HD programs) so I tried re-starting the recording from the satellite local channel 84xx and got the usual "record from here" menu and noticed the program showing was from 3:30 PM (Eagles/Vikes game) when it was now 7:45 PM. Have no idea why this happened and had just rebooted the receiver around 1 PM or so...  The receiver would restart recording the correct program but refused to let me change channels. Also, the guide appeared OK but I never did get the red dot when setting the timer earlier in the day (may be a clue)...
> 
> I undertand why hard resets are needed sometimes but now it is needed several times a day (no small feat with the 4+ minute delay)...


The red dot never shows up in the OTA guide. (At least it never has for me.) But you confirm it is set by just selecting it from the guide once again, and it should take you to the list of timers for recording.


----------



## knealy

I was watching an OTA HD program and hit record to the end to the program (<one hour) and the 921 told me that station was blacked out (the one I'm currently watching!) or is not available. So I cancel out, and I notice it's recording. The next day I turn the 921 back on and notice that it's still recording, -981 minutes so far, -wiping out old recordings as it goes. Fun.


----------



## tthomps

Balcy,

The 921 has only one OTA tuner. There is no way you can watch an OTA channel and record one at the same time. The receiver switched to the channel you wanted to record just like it should have.


----------



## Michael P

awp said:


> Can We get a feature to have OTA (Digital and analog) channel scans to optionally NOT delete already defined channels.
> 
> The reason is I have to point my rooftop antenna to different locations. I don't want to lose the Buffalo OTAs when I point to Rochester.


I have a set of "already defined channels" (actually it's one channel consisting of 4 SD subchannels) that do not go away when I do a DTV scan. I got these channels by hooking up a different antenna that I could aim directly in the direction of the transmitter. I have done subsquent scans with my outdoor omni and have not lost these 4 yet (I get "0" readings for these channels from my outdoor omni). In the springtime I plan on putting up directional antennas in several different directions and running a switch between the various directions. The omni is only good for the closest transmitters, which is fine for the majority of my locals, but it can't get the "rim-shots".

BTW: if you do not like the result of a scan, you can always hit cancell, however I have been able to add new scans to my old list without them being deleted. Always page through the results before hitting save.


----------



## balcy

tthomps said:


> Balcy,
> 
> The 921 has only one OTA tuner. There is no way you can watch an OTA channel and record one at the same time. The receiver switched to the channel you wanted to record just like it should have.


I remembered that when I switched to the satellite local (84xx). It wouldn't let me switch to any other satellite channels (non OTA) while recording with an error message that no tuners were available. That was weird...

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## markcollins

This maynot be the place to post this,but it is an OTA problem.I know there are fellow DFW area residents here and my question is to one of them.Have you lost the 005-01 channel.No picture or sound,but I get a signal strength on meter(on screen banner).Been like this I know since Thursday.The 005-02 channel is fine.I have two 921s and both do the same thing.I have tried rescanning and reboots,no help.--Thanx for any info.


----------



## napabill

I used to be able to get KTVU (FOX) in the San Francisco Bay Area (Napa) until L211 was DL'd . Now it won't lock. Shows a signal strength of between 50-70. I'd like the old firmware back, at least until the Super Bowl is over!


----------



## knealy

napabill said:


> I used to be able to get KTVU (FOX) in the San Francisco Bay Area (Napa) until L211 was DL'd . Now it won't lock. Shows a signal strength of between 50-70. I'd like the old firmware back, at least until the Super Bowl is over!


Must be your location. I get it fine in Alameda.

Keith Nealy


----------



## napabill

knealy said:


> Must be your location. I get it fine in Alameda.
> 
> Keith Nealy


If its location, why do I get perfect signals from KPIX, ABC and KQED all which use the same tower, Sutro?


----------



## knealy

napabill said:


> If its location, why do I get perfect signals from KPIX, ABC and KQED all which use the same tower, Sutro?


Good question. I don't know. Why do I get it fine with the same hardware and software? Perhaps their antenna is directional. Perhaps the signal is just marginal for you because of other factors. Do you have a good roof antenna? Mine is large and pointed at Sutro.


----------



## Michael P

I did an experiment last night that may shed some light on this issue. I could not get a lock on several stations in my market. I use an outdoor omnidirectional "saucer" antenna. The saucer works fine for the closest transmitters (1 - 3 miles from here) but could not get squat from the "rim shot" transmitters which are 22-25 miles almost due south in Akron. I have an old outdoor "corner reflector" UHF antenna that I hooked up inside near the 921 and sat it on a plastic chair. I was able to watch 2 stations from Akron that previously would not lock. I discovered that I could get a lock if the antenna was pointing directly at the transmitter by my picture window. But if I moved the antenna several feet west (towards the location of my chimney mounted outdoor saucer antenna), still aiming southward, by by lock! 

Aparently there is some terrain obstruction between here and Akron, however that obstruction can be avoided by shifting the location of the antenna several feet to the east. To prove this theory, I watched the analog signal from one of these stations. I was able to get the best picture I ever saw when the antenna was located by the picture window, but when I moved the antenna back west, a bar appeared down the center of the picture (my usual reception of all the Akron analog stations had this bar).

I even got a "locked and acquired" for an OOM station 55 miles from here (just got an "rf 20-01" and "rf 20-02" into the guide - no watchable picture yet but again come springtime I'll be trying for the Youngstown distants as well (I can get them in analog).

Come Springtime my antenna is gonna move off the chimney!

Getting digital OTA signals is a lot like aiming a DBS dish. You have to aim precisely at the station (unless you live so close that you are saturated with signal - as is the case here for the Cleveland locals  )


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## mfrodsha

MISSING: Salt Lake: KSTU; KBYU

WTF????

So, now I don't get any of the local kbyu stations in Salt Lake (there were 4 that came in perfectly).

I also don't get any of the Fox channels (there was one SD and one HD)

Now, no guide data for any sub channels? Much of it was the same as the main channel. Now, I can't get the timers to work for sub-channel recordings that were working perfectly before - you know "Local Programming " nonsense for guide data.

So far, this is a big down grade. All I want is freaking OTA guide data. We had it - now it's all but gone. 

Is it possible to go back to the prior software version?


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## boylehome

You may need to delete the channels and SCAN or ADD them Back? You may need to delete and re-add the DVR events that were affected. It's been several hours, has your EPG repopulated yet?


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## revenson

mfrodsha said:


> MISSING: Salt Lake: KSTU; KBYU
> 
> WTF????
> 
> So, now I don't get any of the local kbyu stations in Salt Lake (there were 4 that came in perfectly).
> 
> I also don't get any of the Fox channels (there was one SD and one HD)
> 
> Now, no guide data for any sub channels? Much of it was the same as the main channel. Now, I can't get the timers to work for sub-channel recordings that were working perfectly before - you know "Local Programming " nonsense for guide data.
> 
> So far, this is a big down grade. All I want is freaking OTA guide data. We had it - now it's all but gone.
> 
> Is it possible to go back to the prior software version?


I live in SLC and I did not lose my ota channels but I now have no guide info for NBC and FOX, Also I saw that CBS Hd is offered here but I do not know where it is located on guide..any help would be appreciated! I have had 921 for 1 week and do like it over all.


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## Avillant

SD/HD would not work from remote on 212. Did a power button reboot and it worked okay again.


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## skassan

Prior to 212, I had guide data for all of the OTA channels that Dish had info for. After 212, I have NO guide data at all. Living in the Birmingham, AL market. Tried rescanning digitals. No help.


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## lenny

skassan said:


> Prior to 212, I had guide data for all of the OTA channels that Dish had info for. After 212, I have NO guide data at all. Living in the Birmingham, AL market. Tried rescanning digitals. No help.


Reading all the posts. It seems some people don't seem to have the problem. Some see it to certain degree's and some like you just don't have them any longer.

I used to have guide data for all the channels too. But now (even after rescanning like you) I only have guide data for ABC, FOX, and another local station. I would love to have my guide data for NBC and CBS back.

Sigh,
Lenny


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## boylehome

Originally Posted by skassan said:


> Prior to 212, I had guide data for all of the OTA channels that Dish had info for. After 212, I have NO guide data at all. Living in the Birmingham, AL market. Tried rescanning digitals. No help.





lenny said:


> Reading all the posts. It seems some people don't seem to have the problem. Some see it to certain degree's and some like you just don't have them any longer.
> 
> I used to have guide data for all the channels too. But now (even after rescanning like you) I only have guide data for ABC, FOX, and another local station. I would love to have my guide data for NBC and CBS back.
> 
> Sigh,
> Lenny


I have little to none OTA EPG problems except for FOX KCVU Chico, CA. during prime time all that shows, on different week nights are, "No Information Available" I've checked the lil data and it's the same. There is no rhyme or reason why it is so inconsistent. This problem also existed in L211.


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## lapplegate

When 212 downloaded, I lost all guide data for 3 OTA stations in Louisville, KY.

WAVE 3 (47) NBC
WKPC 15 (17) PBS
WKMJ 68 (38) KET

All were fine before 212.

Dish, give me back my guide data or refund the cost of the locals. Take your pick, but you can't have both.

Get your act together, or leave it alone. The 212 "upgrade" is a big step back.

Larry


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## knealy

Well none of this matters too much to me since the program guide in the San Francisco area was just what was on their analog stations and was duplicated for all sub-channels, and none of them corresponded to what was really on that channel. Now I have less guide data, but since it was pretty much incorrect all the time anyway it's not much more inconvenient.


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## knealy

What does drive me nuts though is that I can only jump back about two or three jumps and then it won't jump back any farther. It's as though I've reached the end of the recording or live buffer. But I haven't. I'm in the middle.


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## ebaltz

Aspect lock still occurring in 212. Happened last night SD stations locked in wide mode, unit would not respond to remote to switch to normal.


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## bleazenb

Since a hard reboot of my 921 today. (1st since I installed it about 1 month ago) I can no longer receive WTTK a WB affiliate out of Indianapolis. Digital 29-1, broadcasting on ota channel 54 ?


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## bleazenb

Info on the Indianapolis WB problem? WTTK-DT began broadcasting DTV 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on UHF channel 54 on July 30, 2003. Channel 29-1 carries WB network high-definition programming in the 1080i format when available, and upconverted WTTV regular programming at other times. WTTK-DT 54 is a low-power DTV station operating from the WTTK tower in Windfall with an effective radiated power of 3.3 kW.
Technical or Programming questions regarding our DTV operations should be addressed to the feedback area of our website. www.wb4.com


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## bleazenb

After a hard reboot of the 921 I have lost all OTA progam info for every OTA digital channel. Before the hard reboot today, I had all that information on every channel?? Any ideas??


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## boylehome

IS ANYONE ELSE OBSERVING THIS:

For several days now, I have observed on both my 921's a greenish colored bar that flashes at the top of my screen only when I have CBSHD tuned-in. This is off satellite 148 channel 9484. It only happens when programs are in HD. The greenish bar extends all the way across the screen and is about 3" to 4" thick and is about 6" to 8" below the top of the screen. The frequency of the flash is about every three minutes but the occurrences are not static, and happen at different times.

On recorded programs, I skip back before the flash to see if it is in the recording. It will reappear every time. The flash is recorded. If I do Frame by Frame, I do not see the flash. It must be very fast and between frames. I have tried to use my digital camera to capture the flash for this post but I can not capture it with my camera. I even did the movie feature on my digital camera, no luck!

I've talked to E* advanced tech. support, they have no clue?

The remaining HD channels that I receive on 148 have no problems.


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## Grandude

I can't recall seeing that yet, but will watch for it now. 
Last night I again had the missing center channel on CBSHD. Switched to the SD version and the sound was fine. Then switched to Comcast and CBS was just fine. Now I am wondering if this is a Dish problem or a 921 problem? Very annoying to say the least. Has happened numerous times and I don't believe that I am the only one with the problem.
Happened when trying to watch CSI.


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## boylehome

Grandude said:


> Last night I again had the missing center channel on CBSHD.


Yes, Center channel was extremely low on the King of Queens. I see it was broadcast in DD5.1. I've noticed that CBSHD seems to have trouble with the center channel on other programs that are DD5.1.


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## knealy

boylehome said:


> IS ANYONE ELSE OBSERVING THIS:
> 
> For several days now, I have observed on both my 921's a greenish colored bar that flashes at the top of my screen only when I have CBSHD tuned-in. This is off satellite 148 channel 9484. It only happens when programs are in HD. The greenish bar extends all the way across the screen and is about 3" to 4" thick and is about 6" to 8" below the top of the screen. The frequency of the flash is about every three minutes but the occurrences are not static, and happen at different times.
> 
> On recorded programs, I skip back before the flash to see if it is in the recording. It will reappear every time. The flash is recorded. If I do Frame by Frame, I do not see the flash. It must be very fast and between frames. I have tried to use my digital camera to capture the flash for this post but I can not capture it with my camera. I even did the movie feature on my digital camera, no luck!
> 
> I've talked to E* advanced tech. support, they have no clue?
> 
> The remaining HD channels that I receive on 148 have no problems.


I recorded CSI HD as well and it is indeed missing the center dialog channel. Interestingly, the ads which are not Dolby come through fine. I ended up turning on the Closed Captioning and watching it that way. I felt like Gil. Eight minutes into it the center channel turned on. My bet is that CBS screwed up.

Keith Nealy


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## balcy

Grandude said:


> Last night I again had the missing center channel on CBSHD. Switched to the SD version and the sound was fine. Then switched to Comcast and CBS was just fine.


I noticed that a few weeks ago with CSI Miami. I had recorded it but on playback all I could hear was background sounds (very irritating). I never thought about it being a missing center channel as I only have a 2 speaker setup. I thought it was a problem with the HD on CBS since it only happened once.


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## Rory

Same thing happened with NUMB3RS on OTA CBS (WWL-HD) last night. No center channel for the opening scenes, until the commercials. Rest of the program was OK. This is a problem at the source. It seems to happen with all three of the CSI shows, NCIS and NUMB3RS. 

I switched to my Sony's internal ATSC tuner and noted the same problem.


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## ebaltz

Its your local station, we had the same issue in Phoenix until the local CBS affliate figured out that they had forgotten to flip the switch at the station from 2 channel to 5.1


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## knealy

ebaltz said:


> Its your local station, we had the same issue in Phoenix until the local CBS affliate figured out that they had forgotten to flip the switch at the station from 2 channel to 5.1


Yeah, the locals might be doing this too, but the CBSHD feed from DISH is where others of us got it. The whole HD thing is still in its infancy and there are a lot of broadcasters who still haven't figured it out.


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## William_K_F

William_K_F said:


> Hi,
> 
> I can no longer add KNTVDT broadcast 49 assigned 48-2 (paired with Telemundo).
> 
> It worked fine before the upgrade to L211, but now I can't add it. I try to manually add it, signal locks, but doesn't get aquired.
> 
> Also can't get KRCB boardcast 23 assigned 22-1. Not positive I had this one before, but the signal seems strong but won't aquire it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -William


This is still an issue with L212.


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## Hound

Two Philadelphia OTA stations are very hard to tune in. I was finally able
to scan them in after getting a much stronger amplifier on my outside
Winegard 9095 directional antenna. Channel 12 WHYY broadcasting on 55 
www.whyy.org PBS affiliate and Channel 29 WTXF broadcasting on 42 www.fox29.com FOX affiliate. The signal bounces all around from 50 to 70.
Sometimes it goes to 0. The antenna installer thinks that it is a problem with
my DVR 921. He said that other receivers hold the signal. I get these channels
then they break up and I lose the screen. Then it comes back and I lose it again.
The installer thought that the DVR was losing the channels and they should
be rescanned in. But it would lose them again. The main channel 12 PBS station
scanned in as 12-2, not 12-1. The sub station scanned in as 12-1. Also, the
two stations scanned in as 55-1 and 55-2, the UHF frequency. I have the 212
software and boot 150B.


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## BobMurdoch

Hound, where are you in Central NJ? I'm highly interested i trying to get the WTXF signal as that would get my wife Eagles games in HD in the fall.

Unfortunately, I thought I would have to get an antenna just a little smaller than a SETI satellite dish to pull in a usable signal.........


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## Hound

I am in Princeton on the northernmost edge near the county line. My primary motivation in getting the Winegard 9095 antenna was
also to get the Eagles games in high definition. None of the Philadelphia
locals, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, UPN, FOX or WB are available in Princeton
in High Definition either on cable or satellite. If you want to watch football
in Princeton in high def, you have to watch the Giants or Jets. The WTXF
signal is weak. I spoke with the station engineer and WTXF just got FCC
approval to build a higher transmitter and increase the signal strength. But
it will not be ready until 2007. My antenna is only about 3 or 4 feet above my
chimney. To get better reception, I would have to raise my antenna at least
10 feet. But to install my antenna, it took a 40 foot ladder to get up my chimney.
My roof is too steep to stand on. The antenna installer will not raise the antenna.
So I am stuck with a bouncing signal until 2007. I suggest to get WTXF in Brielle, that you install a Winegard 9095 antenna with a strong amplifier, with guide wires, at least 10 feet above the highest point on your house
Brielle, I believe is further from the signal than Princeton. But all areas are different.


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## MQuinn

KGO in the SF Bay Area 7-01 - shows 107 signal strength, but no picture or sound.
Another OTA tuner on the same antenna sees a great picture.

In addition, if you tune to 7-02, instead of getting the subchannel, you actually get 11-01, which is our NBC station.

My information:
Dish DVR921 #66889077
Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F054
SW Version: L213HEED-N


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## jventre

Over the weekend I lost WJLA and WUSA, the ABC and CBS affiliates in Washington, DC and have not been able to get them back. Scanning for them does not find them. I posted this a separate problem in the 921 problem forum.


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## boylehome

MQuinn said:


> KGO in the SF Bay Area 7-01 - shows 107 signal strength, but no picture or sound.
> Another OTA tuner on the same antenna sees a great picture.


If you haven't, try deleting the KGO digital channels and then re-add them. Funny thing, our local ABC affiliate, KRCR 07-01 pretty much did the same thing but then, the signal started going from 100 to 0 and back then nothing. It is still off the air. I spoke to the chief engineer who said that they are having microwave problems.


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## knealy

MQuinn said:


> KGO in the SF Bay Area 7-01 - shows 107 signal strength, but no picture or sound.
> Another OTA tuner on the same antenna sees a great picture.
> 
> In addition, if you tune to 7-02, instead of getting the subchannel, you actually get 11-01, which is our NBC station.
> 
> My information:
> Dish DVR921 #66889077
> Boot Version: 150B
> Flash Version: F054
> SW Version: L213HEED-N


7-01 comes in normally for me in Alameda, CA (SF Bay area). Also 7-02 shows a different program in SD but still ABC. I can't get 11-01. Wish I could. It's been my experience that these stations come and go, or broadcast at less than full power. I have called a couple of the stations from time to time and they have confirmed that their signal has gone down.

I think we're in the development stage of DTV and there are lots of glitches all along the transmission routes. Some are at the broadcaster's end, some at Dish's end, and some at our receiver's end. It's apparently going to take a few years for all this to settle down and get all the wrinkles out. It's frustrating for those of us who have seen its potential and want it to work glitch free, but it's increasingly complex and is rather amazing that it works at all.


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## boylehome

I check daily to see if my 921's have rebooted so to avoid inevitable problems that seem to accrue without this reboot. My HECD 921 has not done an auto reboot since Saturday, April 23. My HEED 921 has auto rebooted faithfully. I tried a power cord reboot but didn't fix. Any know causes and is there a cure?


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## jergenf

Hound said:


> Two Philadelphia OTA stations are very hard to tune in. I was finally able
> to scan them in after getting a much stronger amplifier on my outside
> Winegard 9095 directional antenna. Channel 12 WHYY broadcasting on 55
> www.whyy.org PBS affiliate and Channel 29 WTXF broadcasting on 42 www.fox29.com FOX affiliate. The signal bounces all around from 50 to 70.
> Sometimes it goes to 0. The antenna installer thinks that it is a problem with
> my DVR 921. He said that other receivers hold the signal. I get these channels
> then they break up and I lose the screen. Then it comes back and I lose it again.
> The installer thought that the DVR was losing the channels and they should
> be rescanned in. But it would lose them again. The main channel 12 PBS station
> scanned in as 12-2, not 12-1. The sub station scanned in as 12-1. Also, the
> two stations scanned in as 55-1 and 55-2, the UHF frequency. I have the 212
> software and boot 150B.


With the 921 you really need a signal strength of at least 75 to lock in. It may be that the station is not transmitting at full power yet. Try adding a preamp to your Winegard antenna or possibly try re-positioning it. The digital OTA tuner in the 921 is not as sensitive as some set top boxes might be.

As for 12-2 being the main PBS channel (same feed as analog 12) that's most likely correct. In my location (Rochester NY) 21-4 is the main feed and 21-1 is PBS-HD also 21-2 PBS-Kids and 21-3 PBS-You. These subchannels are not really different channels like many people assume. It's all one channel just that the station is sending multiple programs in a single data stream (aka multicasting). The nummeric assignments are controlled by the station not the 921. As you stated yourself you're really tuned to chan 55.
Also if you're getting duplicate stations like 55-1 and 55-2 that might be caused by some testing the station may may doing. I was getting funny stuff like 21-6 PBS-AM or 16-1 PBS-Rfd then I wrote to the station and they admitted doing various tests during those weeks so I just deleted those useless extra channels form my list.


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## SimpleSimon

Mine seems to have quite self-rebooting quite some time ago. 

I quit reporting stuff months ago - nothing I ever see gets fixed (this goes back to the L14x days), so why bother?


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## boylehome

SimpleSimon said:


> Mine seems to have quite self-rebooting quite some time ago.
> 
> I quit reporting stuff months ago - nothing I ever see gets fixed (this goes back to the L14x days), so why bother?


What do you think would happen if I call an E* service representative because of a crash resulting from no reboot? Most likely they would say pull the cord, blah, blah, blah. But this time, I decline to follow their procedure stating that the 921 is supposed to reboot on its own but it quit doing it and I'm tired of doing it. So I ask them for another work around is since I'm not pulling the plug anymore because I've been doing it for months and I now have a case of tendentious and a back disorder from bending over to pull it. I tell them that my doctor has told me not to do it anymore. What do you suspect they would say or do SimpleSimon? The 921 has become the tail that wags the dog. At any rate, I'm still waiting for some one from the 921 team to call me back and there time frame has just about expired.


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## MQuinn

knealy said:


> 7-01 comes in normally for me in Alameda, CA (SF Bay area). Also 7-02 shows a different program in SD but still ABC. I can't get 11-01. Wish I could. It's been my experience that these stations come and go, or broadcast at less than full power. I have called a couple of the stations from time to time and they have confirmed that their signal has gone down.
> 
> I think we're in the development stage of DTV and there are lots of glitches all along the transmission routes. Some are at the broadcaster's end, some at Dish's end, and some at our receiver's end. It's apparently going to take a few years for all this to settle down and get all the wrinkles out. It's frustrating for those of us who have seen its potential and want it to work glitch free, but it's increasingly complex and is rather amazing that it works at all.


This isn't a "development stage" problem. I have a computer with a DTV card right next to the dish box. It gets 7-01 and 7-02 fine. The Dish has channels somehow "cross-linked", and even deleting and rescanning doesn't fix it. This started for me with L213 - it did not happen with L212.


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## knealy

MQuinn said:


> This isn't a "development stage" problem. I have a computer with a DTV card right next to the dish box. It gets 7-01 and 7-02 fine. The Dish has channels somehow "cross-linked", and even deleting and rescanning doesn't fix it. This started for me with L213 - it did not happen with L212.


Well, all I can say is what I said before. 7-1 and 7-2 are not cross-linked for me and I live in the same area. So I don't know what's going on, but apparently there are different effects for different people both running 213. I am just hoping once again (like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football) that 214 will fix it.


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## Leroy

Just a quick post to let you all know that since the L212 download the Los Angeles PBS Channel does not have down mapped program info. Was fine before.
Now it always says No Info available. I tried the typical remove the station and then add to no avail. It's really not a big deal since I never record any stuff from that channel anyway. But I do stop and watch sometimes while channel surfing.
Will hopefully get fixed in 214 and not infect any other down mapping...


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## Jon Spackman

Leroy,

The reason it has no info is because it used to have the incorrect info from the regular PBS sat channel ( a national SD feed) that plays completely different shows then the local PBS you and i receive OTA in Los Angeles. It you ever checked the program info that was in the guide for it before 212 hit, it was very inaccurate. So dish decided to remove the info for it (apparently they haven't been able to get the correct guide info from zap-2-it or wherever they get their info.

Jon


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## lujan

j5races said:


> Leroy,
> 
> The reason it has no info is because it used to have the incorrect info from the regular PBS sat channel ( a national SD feed) that plays completely different shows then the local PBS you and i receive OTA in Los Angeles. It you ever checked the program info that was in the guide for it before 212 hit, it was very inaccurate. So dish decided to remove the info for it (apparently they haven't been able to get the correct guide info from zap-2-it or wherever they get their info.
> 
> Jon


It's not only the PBS channel in Albuquerque, but the ABC station as well. I have not had either station channel guide downmapped to the OTA stations since L212.


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## KKlare

Yes, it has been quite a while that ABC (KOAT 21/7.1) has not had the correct full info. It does have the correct preview info but that is not recorded nor can you see all of it. It stopped being correct when 7.1 with national ABC, 1 hour earlier, and 7.2 with digital of 7.0 became 7.1 HD timed like 7.0. Hear they are selling bandwidth to USD?

Too bad that PBS (KNME 35/5.1) does not have the national schedule although you can look it up at <http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/tvschedules_hd.html> a day at a time for more than a week. Would like the content listing of "Prime-time replays" on overnight, too.

No info on second PBS (KNMD? 9.1-9.4) either with its PBS-Kids E/W and PBS-You and one more.

Those claiming the 811 uses PSIP must be wrong or all these would have correct info even if 921 doesn't.
-Ken


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## Hound

For the last ten days or so, the two weakest OTA digital channels from Philadelphia PBS WHYY-12 and FOX WTXF-29, have been received by my 921 tuner with hardly any dropouts. I can now which shows for two or three hours at a time with only a couple of dropouts. On Saturday, I watched the Yankees - Mets on Fox 29 in high definition and last night I watched
Star Wars on Fox in high definition. The signal strength on Fox WTXF-29 was only 57 to 66,
but the 921 held the signal with only a few dropouts for 3 hours. The signal strength on PBS
WHYY-12 has been a little stronger 66 to 75. I have been watching shows on PBS for a full
hour in high definition and no dropouts. What has happened? Before my 921 had the signal bounce from 0 to 75 on both stations. It no longer bounces. It now reads the signal. I contacted the engineering departments at both stations and nothing has changed in their signal output. Both stations have received approval to raise the height ot their transmitters and have a stronger signal in 2007. I have not changed anything.


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## eckertman

What DBS are we talking about? Dishnetwork or Directv? Or could it be another one all together?
Hmmmmm......


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## Hound

Dish Network


----------

