# Networks in SD?



## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I went to schedule a bunch of programs since I was going to be out of town for a week or so. I looked at what I was scheduling & there was not enough HDD capacity per the DVR information. I figured no big deal I'll just record some programs in SD in order to save space.

Problem is none of the big networks such as CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX have SD. I never checked this before & just relied on what I've heard, that one of the reasons to use SD is to increase recording capacity. I did change some of the other channels & managed to get some additional capacity, but I may not be lucky next time.

Is there some secret way to get CBS, etc in SD? If not then I need to get an EHD.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

Are you sure you don't have your guide set to show HD only?


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

Why not hook up an external hard drive and archive some of what is currently recorded on the DVR to free up space?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

If you're on Eastern Arc (this is my suspicion), then no - the SD versions of any of your locals that are in HD on Dish are not available on EASTERN ARC. They are still available on 110/119, so if you want them, you would need a wing dish pointed at 110 or 119 (depending which slot has your locals).

It would probably be easier and cheaper to get an external HD and archive some of your recordings off.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

scooper said:


> If you're on Eastern Arc (this is my suspicion), then no - the SD versions of any of your locals that are in HD on Dish are not available on EASTERN ARC.


That may be true, but the Dish receivers will still output SD through the component outputs.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

What the OP wants is the SD network feed to save disk space on the DVR while recording. Your suggestion would only help if he was doing the recording on an external recording device (such as a DVD recorder) .


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The SD versions of local channels should be in the 7000 range of channels.

If indeed the OP is on eastern arc, the numbers calculated by the receiver are slightly decieving because MPEG4 takes up about 1/2 the recording space as MPEG2.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

scooper said:


> What the OP wants is the SD network feed to save disk space on the DVR while recording. Your suggestion would only help if he was doing the recording on an external recording device (such as a DVD recorder) .


On my 722 and 612, the guide shows both HD and SD versions of each channel (remember I am on EA). So what you are saying is that it does not matter which version I set the DVR for, the recorded programs will be the HD version?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Wilf said:


> On my 722 and 612, the guide shows both HD and SD versions of each channel (remember I am on EA). So what you are saying is that it does not matter which version I set the DVR for, the recorded programs will be the HD version?


That's not what I'm saying at all.

If you're on Eastern Arc , it is likely that not all your locals are in HD. If the station IS in HD on Dish , you will not be getting a SD version ON EASTERN ARC. If you have a wing dish that is pointing to the slot where your SD locals are on, THEN you will be getting both HD and SD versions of that channel. In accordance with the law, if Dish offers any station from a particular market on one arc, all the other stations have to be available on that same arc, although at this time, it is NOT required that all of them have to be the HD version. So, if you are Eastern Arc only, you will typically have the Big 4 (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) in HD, and the rest of them in SD. Most markets in NC will also have WUNC available in HD also.

If you are a WESTERN ARC customer (110,119, 129) for HD, then the above won't apply - both SD and HD versions of your channels should be available.

As far as "cable" channels are concerned - Dish is putting both SD and HD versions of most channels on both Arcs. And in this case - the SD version will definitely take less space to record than the HD version.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

scooper said:


> That's not what I'm saying at all.
> 
> So, if you are Eastern Arc only, you will typically have the Big 4 (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) in HD, and the rest of them in SD. Most markets in NC will also have WUNC available in HD also.


Not so. I am on EA only. I still have a choice of HD or SD for the big four locals. There is no wing dish. I assume the receiver down converts HD to SD. (I subscribe to locals and HBO only - no "cable" channels. Other than the freebies, nothing else.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Wilf said:


> Not so. I am on EA only. I still have a choice of HD or SD for the big four locals. There is no wing dish. I assume the receiver down converts HD to SD. (I subscribe to locals and HBO only - no "cable" channels. Other than the freebies, nothing else.


DC or Baltimore locals ?

Your statement surprises me - in general, it's like I said - if the HD versions are on EA, the SD versions of those channels are not.

You are getting 61.5, 72.7, and 77 , right? That is what is meant as Eastern Arc. Western Arc is 110, 119, and 129.

Your LOCATION doesn't matter - it's what satellites you're pointed at that determines Eastern Arc / Western Arc. Miami FL is technically a WESTERN Arc market, because their HD locals are not on 61.5 / 72.7 / 77 the last I checked. The 129 slot is difficult for them to hit (low elevation angle), but all the locals (both SD and HD) are on 110/119 . A possible solution for them is a dual Dish 500 setup - one aimed at 110/119, the other at 61.5 / 72.7, joined with a DPP44 switch.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

scooper said:


> DC or Baltimore locals ?
> 
> Your statement surprises me - in general, it's like I said - if the HD versions are on EA, the SD versions of those channels are not.
> 
> You are getting 61.5, 72.7, and 77 , right? That is what is meant as Eastern Arc. Western Arc is 110, 119, and 129.


Baltimore unfortunately. I was converted EA some months ago. I already had a 722, and the 508 was replaced by a 612. What was the side dish, was replaced with a 1000.4. The cables to the super dish were literally cut, and the ends are clearly visible. Now there is only one cable going to the 722 for both tuners, instead of two. The menu shows only the three EA sat's.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Wilf said:


> Baltimore unfortunately. I was converted EA some months ago. I already had a 722, and the 508 was replaced by a 612. What was the side dish, was replaced with a 1000.4. The cables to the super dish were literally cut, and the ends are clearly visible. Now there is only one cable going to the 722 for both tuners, instead of two. The menu shows only the three EA sat's.


Would you post a list of what HD and SD local channels you are currently receiving from Dish ? Do not include the ones from your OTA antenna - just the ones you receive from Dish - and make it the channels listed in the 5000's and 8000's.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

61.5:
HD:
WMAR DT (ABC) WMAR 5160 9s15 61.5° *12 
WJZ DT (CBS) WJZ 5161 9s15 61.5° E*12 
WBAL DT (NBC) WBAL 5162 9s15 61.5° E*12 
WBFF DT (Fox) WBFF 5163 9s15 61.5° E*12 

SD:
WNUV TV 54 (CW) WNUV 8734 9s15 61.5° E*12 
WUTB TV 24 (MyTV) WUTB 8735 9s15 61.5° E*12 
WMPT TV 22 (PBS) WMPT 8736 9s15 61.5° E*12 

72 and 77 don't have anything specifically laid out for B'more on dishuser.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Ras - that was the point I was trying to make Wilf see, That the Big4 (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in SD are not on Eastern Arc...


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

scooper said:


> Would you post a list of what HD and SD local channels you are currently receiving from Dish ? Do not include the ones from your OTA antenna - just the ones you receive from Dish - and make it the channels listed in the 5000's and 8000's.


I know we had SD versions of the channels after we were switched to EA, but I just checked, and the SD versions are indeed now gone. For the past few months be have been really addicted to Netflix, and haven't been watching much else, so I can't pin down when this happened. My 612, which is in my Man Cave, also showed both SD and HD in the guide at one point, even though I am using the component output. I remember playing around with the it and the HD version in the guide gave me a letter-boxed display in SD, while the SD version filled the screen. The guide now shows HD only. It has been several months since we switched to EA, and it was after that I added GoogleTV and we started with Netflix.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Wilf said:


> I know we had SD versions of the channels after we were switched to EA, but I just checked, and the SD versions are indeed now gone.


That's the thing, you didn't have SD versions of the Big 4. They were just downconverted from the HD.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm back home now & just want to confirm that I do have EA.

Thanks for the information that EA does not have the Big4 (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in SD. I thought maybe I was looking in the wrong place, even though I did a search and no SD showed up.

I guess we watch too much TV & will have to get an EHD.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I notice a significant difference in the capacity used when comparing an OTA recording to a sat tuner recording, which is what I’ve previously heard.

Obviously I have no choice when recording such channels such as USA or FX, but is there a way to find out if these or others are 720p or 1080i broadcasts?


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

Mike109 said:


> I notice a significant difference in the capacity used when comparing an OTA recording to a sat tuner recording, which is what I've previously heard.
> 
> Obviously I have no choice when recording such channels such as USA or FX, but is there a way to find out if these or others are 720p or 1080i broadcasts?


The OTA signal is MP2 and is recorded that way. Most of the HD and a lot of the SD from Dish is MP4, which is more compressed.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

bnborg said:


> The OTA signal is MP2 and is recorded that way. Most of the HD and a lot of the SD from Dish is MP4, which is more compressed.


I was curious as to the format of the original source & if there was some menu in the DVR that displayed the information.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Mike109 said:


> I was curious as to the format of the original source & if there was some menu in the DVR that displayed the information.


No, but OTA's requirements are strictly defined in the ATSC standards:



> For transport, ATSC uses the MPEG systems specification, known as an MPEG transport stream, to encapsulate data, subject to certain constraints. ATSC uses 188-byte MPEG transport stream packets to carry data. Before decoding of audio and video takes place, the receiver must demodulate and apply error correction to the signal. Then, the transport stream may be demultiplexed into its constituent streams.
> 
> MPEG-2
> 
> There are three basic display sizes for ATSC. Basic and enhanced NTSC and PAL image sizes are at the bottom level at 480 or 576 lines. Medium-sized images have 720 scanlines and are 1280 pixels wide. The top tier has 1080 lines 1920 pixels wide. 1080-line video is actually encoded with 1920×1088 pixel frames, but the last eight lines are discarded prior to display. This is due to a restriction of the MPEG-2 video format, which requires the number of coded luma samples (i.e. pixels) to be divisible by 16.


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