# $299 just to get the equipment.....



## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

Can someone explain to me why I should pay $299 just to the HD DVR to replace my 522? I want HD but it seems nuts to me to have to pay to get the hardware just so I can pay to get the service.

Has anyone found a work around? Right now I have 522 and 322 with the everything pack. I want to upgrade to HD but just can't bring my self to pay the $299.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Jason


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Buy it outright for $499, thats 200 to 500 less than the previous HD DVRs.


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

Ok buying it doesn't make any sense either, cause then you are stuck with it when the latest and greatest comes out....


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You can't have everything!

I don't like the $299 up front fee either... which is the big reason why I haven't upgraded to the newest myself... but until they change or have a better offer on the table, that's what we have.


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## megeed (May 16, 2006)

HDMe said:


> You can't have everything!
> 
> I don't like the $299 up front fee either... which is the big reason why I haven't upgraded to the newest myself... but until they change or have a better offer on the table, that's what we have.


At least you have the option to upgrade. I am stuck with a commitment from upgrading to a 625. They won't let me lease the vip622 until my commitment is finished.


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

megeed said:


> At least you have the option to upgrade. I am stuck with a commitment from upgrading to a 625. They won't let me lease the vip622 until my commitment is finished.


That is a bunch of bull shizzit!!!! Man that sucks


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

what if we organize a big group of customers that want HD but don't want to pay the crazy fee, and take that to dish???


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

I am a little confused as to why you guys think having to pay $299 for a piece of cutting edge home theater equipment is so out of line. The people who got the first HD DVR's, the 921 and HDTivo had to pay $1000 for those recievers. Compared to that, $299 doesn't seem so bad.

I am guessing that the 622 isn't free to manufacture so why should it be free to get one? You had to pay more for your HDTV than a SD TV didn't you? If Dish provided everything for free, how would they make any money? :nono2:


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

MarkoC said:


> I am a little confused as to why you guys think having to pay $299 for a piece of cutting edge home theater equipment is so out of line. The people who got the first HD DVR's, the 921 and HDTivo had to pay $1000 for those recievers. Compared to that, $299 doesn't seem so bad.
> 
> I am guessing that the 622 isn't free to manufacture so why should it be free to get one? You had to pay more for your HDTV than a SD TV didn't you? If Dish provided everything for free, how would they make any money? :nono2:


1) Dish makes money off the service that they provide. They are charging us to get the hardware just so we can pay them for their service.

2) Cable does not make you buy any hardware at all, nor do they charge you any upgrade fees. They do increase their prices every 6 months however.

3) $299 does not get you anything. The receiver isn't yours, you are leasing it at $5 a month, the installation is free. Dish says it is an upgrade fee but new customers have to pay the same fee. So that is out the window. What does the $299 get you other than the opportunity to use there HD service???


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## steveo70 (Feb 9, 2004)

MarkoC said:


> I am a little confused as to why you guys think having to pay $299 for a piece of cutting edge home theater equipment is so out of line. The people who got the first HD DVR's, the 921 and HDTivo had to pay $1000 for those recievers. Compared to that, $299 doesn't seem so bad.
> 
> I am guessing that the 622 isn't free to manufacture so why should it be free to get one? You had to pay more for your HDTV than a SD TV didn't you? If Dish provided everything for free, how would they make any money? :nono2:


I would agree with that argument if you own the receiver. You are leasing the equiptment. E* still owns the equiptment. Are the receivers that cable lease out free to manufacture? No, but I don't have to pay $299 for their HD upgrade.

So how does cable make money when I am only charged a monthly fee for the receiver but not a up-front, upgrade fee?


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## ZICRON (May 24, 2006)

steveo70 said:


> I would agree with that argument if you own the receiver. You are leasing the equiptment. E* still owns the equiptment. Are the receivers that cable lease out free to manufacture? No, but I don't have to pay $299 for their HD upgrade.
> 
> So how does cable make money when I am only charged a monthly fee for the receiver but not a up-front, upgrade fee?


Yeah, good question. Moot for me, I can't get HD via cable in my area. I'm still trying to decide between D* and E* since I can get HD Locals now (Phoenix), but I want the HR10 from D* and don't know if they'll let me have the New York Locals so I can get HD M2, and I am in a verified white area except for NBC.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> what if we organize a big group of customers that want HD but don't want to pay the crazy fee, and take that to dish???


That might work, but I would think the group size would need to be 500,000 to 1,000,000 for Dish to care. I purchased my 622 and didn't like the price but there was no alternative.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> 1) Dish makes money off the service that they provide. They are charging us to get the hardware just so we can pay them for their service.
> 
> 2) Cable does not make you buy any hardware at all, nor do they charge you any upgrade fees. They do increase their prices every 6 months however.
> 
> 3) $299 does not get you anything. The receiver isn't yours, you are leasing it at $5 a month, the installation is free. Dish says it is an upgrade fee but new customers have to pay the same fee. So that is out the window. What does the $299 get you other than the opportunity to use there HD service???


Cable's subscription fees are also generally higher, and from what I have seen the fees for leasing their boxes are much higher... in the range of $10-$12 per box.

Dish COULD go that route of making the HD receivers more expensive to lease per month with no upfront fee, but then I think that causes confusion for the customer, and is more expensive in the long-run, so they decided to keep the fees uniform and use the "lease upgrade fee" as a way to offset that cost without you having to pay more for it monthly. It makes sense to me. This also allows them to lower the lease upgrade fees when the hardware becmoes cheaper to produce or the R&D costs have been fully recovered as is typical in the consmer electronics industry. Constantly re-evaluting monthly fees is much more difficult and because of it unlikely to happen, as can be seen from cables leasing model.

If you REALLY had a problem with it you would be switching to cable... but my guess is you are not happy with having to pay $30 or so more a month to get similar service/hardware with cable. You can't have it both ways...


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

> "lease upgrade fee"


As I said, new customers have to pay this fee also, it is not an upgrade fee. No one really knows what the $299 actually buys.

And of course I am not going back to cable. I like dish, and really dislike cable, but that doesn't mean I will sit by at idle and pay a fee that I think is messed up.


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

JasonMonette said:


> Can someone explain to me why I should pay $299 just to the HD DVR to replace my 522? I want HD but it seems nuts to me to have to pay to get the hardware just so I can pay to get the service.
> 
> Has anyone found a work around? Right now I have 522 and 322 with the everything pack. I want to upgrade to HD but just can't bring my self to pay the $299.
> 
> ...


Do you have an XBOX or Playstaion? If so, why would you buy it in order to be able to purchase games from Sony or M$ to play on it?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JasonMonette said:


> Can someone explain to me why I should pay $299 just to the HD DVR to replace my 522?


You have no options aside from changing providers. Cable would happily rent you an HD DVR for $15/month with no buy-in. DirecTV's lease buy-in on the HR10 is $499 and it doesn't receive, much less record, locals.

The equipment is expensive to manufacture early on and they can't afford to build thousands of them, distribute them and wait for the money to trickle in.


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## carmangary (May 8, 2006)

A Dish door-to-door salesmen stopped by my house a few days ago. He was trying to sign people up and didn't realize I already had Dish. While he was there I asked about upgrading to the new HD DVR. He flat out told me the best thing to do would be to wait awhile for the price to go down. And, based on the rate that the prices of HD boxes and TV technology are dropping I think I will listen to him. I'm thankful to all of you living on the cutting edge that are funding the R&D needed to lower prices, though.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> As I said, new customers have to pay this fee also, it is not an upgrade fee. No one really knows what the $299 actually buys.


Depending on what your otherwise needs are (cabling and dishes on the roof + switches, etc.) part of the $299 goes into installation and upgrading of other hardware.

In the situation where you need a second dish or a Dish1000 install + some new switches and/or LNBs... the $299 can be more of a bargain for some upgrades than for others.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

carmangary said:


> A Dish door-to-door salesmen stopped by my house a few days ago. He was trying to sign people up and didn't realize I already had Dish. While he was there I asked about upgrading to the new HD DVR. He flat out told me the best thing to do would be to wait awhile for the price to go down. And, based on the rate that the prices of HD boxes and TV technology are dropping I think I will listen to him. I'm thankful to all of you living on the cutting edge that are funding the R&D needed to lower prices, though.


You're listening to a door 2 door salesman about getting equipment. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, give me a break. All that guy is out there for is how many he can sign up. He doesn't know diddley about the equipment and there is a good chance he has never even seen an HDTV set-up from Dish. Most of those kinda of guys are hired by the dealers to just push as many brochures to as many people as they can. Then if the deal gets a solid 10 to 20 per cent return calls they do the real sale of the equipment and then make the $$. How do I know I used to be a satellite dealer. If you want HD equipment you don't want a traveling salesman.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

JasonMonette said:


> As I said, new customers have to pay this fee also, it is not an upgrade fee. No one really knows what the $299 actually buys.


I'm a new customer as of earlier this month and I wasn't charged that fee. I got a 622, an SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300 installed and was charged $57.


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## kf4omc (Apr 11, 2006)

nazz said:


> I'm a new customer as of earlier this month and I wasn't charged that fee. I got a 622, an SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300 installed and was charged $57.


DId you recive you first bill yet??


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## Wicker 54 (May 7, 2006)

JasonMonette said:


> Can someone explain to me why I should pay $299 just to the HD DVR to replace my 522? I want HD but it seems nuts to me to have to pay to get the hardware just so I can pay to get the service.
> 
> Has anyone found a work around? Right now I have 522 and 322 with the everything pack. I want to upgrade to HD but just can't bring my self to pay the $299.
> 
> ...


Just another D..h ripoff


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

megeed said:


> At least you have the option to upgrade. I am stuck with a commitment from upgrading to a 625. They won't let me lease the vip622 until my commitment is finished.


Might check a CSR supervisor on that. Usually if you upgrade during a lease period, they extend your lease period by the amount on the upgrade plus the unused portion of your current lease. You would keep the 625 active. Not sure what happens if you turn the 625 in, but it shouldn't be as draconian as you may think.


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## Atlas (Sep 6, 2003)

MarkoC said:


> I am a little confused as to why you guys think having to pay $299 for a piece of cutting edge home theater equipment is so out of line. The people who got the first HD DVR's, the 921 and HDTivo had to pay $1000 for those recievers. Compared to that, $299 doesn't seem so bad.
> 
> I am guessing that the 622 isn't free to manufacture so why should it be free to get one? You had to pay more for your HDTV than a SD TV didn't you? If Dish provided everything for free, how would they make any money? :nono2:


As a 921 user I would love to upgrade to the 622 and it does cost "E" plenty in manufacturing these products but their "money is in selling programming... they can never recoup the cost of manufacturing and product developement by giving them away... 
I know if it was free I would already have one and so would everyone who wants one... well not everyone because demand would deplete the supply and the $299 does keep me using my 921 longer and I think that is the reason for the cost... DISH is just detering the wants and needs here... I really have no problem with the cost of the unit... but remember the real issue here is where do they get their money "Profits"... Programming...

Jack


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> You're listening to a door 2 door salesman about getting equipment. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, give me a break. All that guy is out there for is how many he can sign up. He doesn't know diddley about the equipment and there is a good chance he has never even seen an HDTV set-up from Dish. Most of those kinda of guys are hired by the dealers to just push as many brochures to as many people as they can. Then if the deal gets a solid 10 to 20 per cent return calls they do the real sale of the equipment and then make the $$. How do I know I used to be a satellite dealer. If you want HD equipment you don't want a traveling salesman.


I feel the same way about door 2 door salesmen, but this one gave him the correct advise if he wants to save. I have no doubt the 622 will continue to go down in price. Interesting that this one didn't give the hard sell for a HD upgrade.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

kf4omc said:


> DId you recive you first bill yet??


Yes. The only surprise there was paying for two months of programming on the first bill.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dave1234 said:


> I feel the same way about door 2 door salesmen, but this one gave him the correct advise if he wants to save. I have no doubt the 622 will continue to go down in price. Interesting that this one didn't give the hard sell for a HD upgrade.


I disagree. The price has already dropped. I doubt that unless D* does something amazing with their HR20 , the $299 upgrade will continue.

There needs to be some competitive pressure to drive the price down.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

(the following numbers are but examples)

Dish pays $400 for each 622 (discounted price)

Assuming the average person will own a 622 for 3 year before new stuff comes out...

Dish has to recover this $400 and can do it in a number of ways:

1. You can buy your own 622 for $500 and pay Dish nothing to lease.
2. Dish can charge you $14 per month (36 months x $14 + $99 install)
3. Dish can charge you a one time $299 ($200 for the 622 and $99 for install) and $6 a month fee for 36 months)
4. Dish can raise the price of "all" programming to cover the freebies.

Number are not exact but my point is that we are NEVER going to just eat the cost of free stuff... in fact it never is free. We all pay for it in some way.

Dish decided to require an upfront fee to keep the per month charge down. Some might have preffered a higher lease fee and, of course, some would want everything for free LOL.

Eventually Dish will recover the R&D and make production adjustments and the price of 622's will fall. Then Dish will offer the 622 for a $99 upgrade which will go to installation and "eat" the reamaining cost as they switch to true Mpeg4 - once the Mpeg4 encoders get good enough to warrant a full switch (or at least use HD lite LOL)

So if the $299 is too much for you to swallow then just wait a year or two and untill then enjoy your channels that you can watch.

Myself? Well I took the $299 offer and I am enjoying what I consider to be the very best receiver Dish has even produced in the 622. A few bugs? Yes but I have my entire house running off of a single box (1 HD and 4 SD sharred) and considering that the entire house (aside from the true HD set I have) is sharring one output on crappy coax... damn what a sweet picture and I can even watch HD shows on my SD sets.

Do I like the stupid DVD fee? No - Do I like paying a $6 rental fee after paying $299 No but that $299 seems a bit more resonable when you consider that $99 of that really goes to installing a new Dish 1000 as well new wiring if needed.

-JB


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

Okay I'm confused. My installer came out and put in the 622, another SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300. He takes a check for the $57 that he had quoted me.

I get my first bill and I'm not sure I'm seeing where the 622 fee is at.

Additional Receiver - 10.00
DISH Network DVR Service Fee - 0.00
DHA DishHD Platinum w/ Locals - 209.98
Superstation Package KWGN - 11.98
DISH Home Protection - 11.98

Dhpp Credit 2 Months - Adjustment - -11.98


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## Manke (Dec 27, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> Myself? Well I took the $299 offer and I am enjoying what I consider to be the very best receiver Dish has even produced in the 622. A few bugs? Yes but I have my entire house running off of a single box (1 HD and 4 SD sharred) and considering that the entire house (aside from the true HD set I have) is sharring one output on crappy coax... damn what a sweet picture and I can even watch HD shows on my SD sets.
> 
> Do I like the stupid DVD fee? No - Do I like paying a $6 rental fee after paying $299 No but that $299 seems a bit more resonable when you consider that $99 of that really goes to installing a new Dish 1000 as well new wiring if needed.
> -JB


I am with you!

I run 1 HD and 4 SD off my 622 with three remotes and yes a damn sweet picture everywhere! For a High Tech product just out of the barn the 622 is doing great in my book.

I like dish's upfront upgrade program and keeping the monthly fee at a basic level. But we must remember that no matter what program they came up with it would piss someone off. That statement, "nothing is free", is correct. We will always end up paying for everything one way or another. I like Dish's selection!


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

harsh said:


> I disagree. The price has already dropped. I doubt that unless D* does something amazing with their HR20 , the $299 upgrade will continue.
> 
> There needs to be some competitive pressure to drive the price down.


I also think the $299 upgrade will continue and the price drop to $499 was enough for me to jump in. I was surprised the price dropped so quickly. I expect the next cut in purchase price within the next year. I have no idea what Dish has in mind for the lease fee or upgrade lease fee.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> As I said, new customers have to pay this fee also, it is not an upgrade fee. No one really knows what the $299 actually buys.
> 
> And of course I am not going back to cable. I like dish, and really dislike cable, but that doesn't mean I will sit by at idle and pay a fee that I think is messed up.


It IS an upgrade fee... it upgrades you from the generic standard SD-Receiver to an HD DVR...


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

It is not an upgrade fee. They charge new customers the same price.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

nazz said:


> I'm a new customer as of earlier this month and I wasn't charged that fee. I got a 622, an SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300 installed and was charged $57.


Deja Vu


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> It is not an upgrade fee. They charge new customers the same price.


We'll it's both. IT IS AN UPGRADE FEE, if you've got a current HD system and want to upgrade to the 622. It's also what new customers get charged for the same equipment. Somtimes the fee is different for new customers, sometimes not. Either way I hope it comes down in the future, especially for leased equipment.


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

dave1234 said:


> ... Either way I hope it comes down in the future, especially for leased equipment.


You and me both my friend....Cause I want High Def, but can't bring myself to pay the $299 AND the increase in programming...


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

nazz said:


> I'm a new customer as of earlier this month and I wasn't charged that fee. I got a 622, an SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300 installed and was charged $57.


Yes, you were. Just wait...


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

lakebum431 said:


> Yes, you were. Just wait...


I would really appreciate it if someone would elaborate on that. It doesn't appear on my first bill and I certainly didn't agree to it.


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## JasonMonette (Feb 24, 2004)

nazz said:


> I would really appreciate it if someone would elaborate on that. It doesn't appear on my first bill and I certainly didn't agree to it.


All new and upgrade HD customers have to pay a $299 fee for the 622 according to Dish's website and their CSR's. If you found a way around it, please share.....


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

JasonMonette said:


> All new and upgrade HD customers have to pay a $299 fee for the 622 according to Dish's website and their CSR's. If you found a way around it, please share.....


I called a local retailer and told him I was looking to switch over after years with DirecTV. I told him I currently had the HD Tivo and I wanted the 622. He said he'd check into what offers there were and asked me what package I wanted. I told him the Platinum HD. He called me back and said he could do it for $57 and include the extra room I wanted. When he arrived for the install, which was an impressive Monday after a Thursday discussion, he was cooperative in setting me up to use 61.5 instead of 129 which involved adding a D300 to the D1000. When it was up and running he obtained my check for $57 along with the 18 month commitment and went on his way. I have received my first bill and do not see anything more added on.

Could it be the fact that I went through a local guy instead of calling Dish directly?


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

This is an incredulous story. It's probably the first time I've ever heard of anyone getting 622 without paying the upgrade fee (existing or new customer). Are you sure you weren't charged maybe a seperate credit card charge of $299 for the receiver?


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

nazz said:


> Okay I'm confused. My installer came out and put in the 622, another SD receiver, a D1000 and a D300. He takes a check for the $57 that he had quoted me.
> 
> I get my first bill and I'm not sure I'm seeing where the 622 fee is at.
> 
> ...


The DVR service was waived, because you have the platinum service.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

Chandu said:


> This is an incredulous story. It's probably the first time I've ever heard of anyone getting 622 without paying the upgrade fee (existing or new customer). Are you sure you weren't charged maybe a seperate credit card charge of $299 for the receiver?


As of today no such charge has hit my card. I was never informed of such a charge so I would consider it unauthorized if they did that. I wonder if my local guy screwed up. If he's a retailer would they try to charge him the $299?


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## ocanyc (May 30, 2006)

I have TWCNYC cable HD and thinking of going to Dish. I dont care about their HD Dvr so much but are you saying I would have to pay for the receiver? I'm thinking of getting the Dish Latino Platinum HD package, does that mean that they'll waive the DVR monthly fee? I'm confused, could someone be as nice as to tell me what I would have to pay upfront and what my monthly fees would be? Thanks a milllion.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

JasonMonette said:


> Can someone explain to me why I should pay $299 just to the HD DVR to replace my 522? I want HD but it seems nuts to me to have to pay to get the hardware just so I can pay to get the service.
> 
> Has anyone found a work around? Right now I have 522 and 322 with the everything pack. I want to upgrade to HD but just can't bring my self to pay the $299.
> 
> ...


"I want HD..."

DISH has it, knows you want it and charges accordingly.


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## pk325 (May 30, 2006)

Chandu said:


> This is an incredulous story. It's probably the first time I've ever heard of anyone getting 622 without paying the upgrade fee (existing or new customer). Are you sure you weren't charged maybe a seperate credit card charge of $299 for the receiver?


I received a cold call offer for a no charge upgrade from my 942. I will be charged $199 and receive a $199 refund when they get my 942 back. It includes install and any additional antennae necessary. I accepted the offer, but had to take another call before finalizing. It took 2 more calls and then only a supervisor/specialist could complete the transaction, but it's all set up, just waiting for the new box. I was surfing this thread to see if anyone else got the offer, apparently not...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

pk325 said:


> I received a cold call offer for a no charge upgrade from my 942. I will be charged $199 and receive a $199 refund when they get my 942 back. It includes install and any additional antennae necessary. I accepted the offer, but had to take another call before finalizing. It took 2 more calls and then only a supervisor/specialist could complete the transaction, but it's all set up, just waiting for the new box. I was surfing this thread to see if anyone else got the offer, apparently not...


There appears to be some new program coming down the pipe. I've heard grumbling about an upcoming deal whereby the dealers are going to be happier.

I can see where they might be willing to shake the $99 upgrade fee now that the ViP622 is gaining momentum.


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## bighifi (Aug 11, 2004)

The Price of the 622 Will not drop very much. They will keep the fee high until they release a new box, then the fee for the new equipment will be high. The thing I don't like about the "upgrade fee" is this. If they releaese a new box, then chances are you will not get it without paying another high fee. If you don't think so just ask the people who purchased the 9XX series about 6 months ago. They still have to pay an "upgrade fee" and recooup a discount far short of the original cost of the box. I know alot of people hate cable, but the gap between dish pricing and cable pricing is not that large any more, less than 20 bucks in some areas. I know, I know you get more HD chanels with dish, so that is something to consider. I do know that when a new cable box comes out though I don't have to pay an upgrade fee I just go pick one up. Also I don't have a contract with my cable company, I can quite any time. Dish needs to follow suit with the cell companies. They don't develope equipment for free either, but you can usually get phones free with commitment all of the time. They make money on the stupid fees they charge. I know some people pay a small fee for bleeding edge but, wait about 3 months and you will see them free after rebated somewhere. OK my rant is over


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Satellite providers have a slightly different business model than do cable TV providers. 

Every successful business has to have a plan as to how to market and get revenue for their product.

It looks like both Dish and Direct are doing OK in their niche and cable cos are doing OK in theirs.

Satellite and cable are competitors, but not really direct competitors because of the differences in who they serve, not necessarily their product.

As has been pointed out in earlier posts, both cable and satellite must somehow recover the cost of equipment.

Satellite might better be compared to cellular phone service, at least as far as equipment is concerned. Some cellphones are "free" with a committed subscription, while other phones with more bells and whistles cost hundreds of dollars. So, if you want four rooms of SD service you can get your equipment free with a committment, but if you want an HD DVR there is money required up front, whether you lease or buy. The analogy is not perfect but closer than the cable comparison. IMHO


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

bighifi said:


> I do know that when a new cable box comes out though I don't have to pay an upgrade fee I just go pick one up. Also I don't have a contract with my cable company, I can quite any time. Dish needs to follow suit with the cell companies. They don't develope equipment for free either, but you can usually get phones free with commitment all of the time. They make money on the stupid fees they charge. I know some people pay a small fee for bleeding edge but, wait about 3 months and you will see them free after rebated somewhere. OK my rant is over


A) Well, that may be true about cable's equipment, but almost all cable companies charge a significant extra monthly leasing fee for the HD DVR's. Usually about $10, plus like you said it is generally about $20 more per month for comparable programming with cable. Add that up and that is $30/mo... so in 10 months you have already paid the same as the upgrade fee with dish, and then it gets more and more expensive as time goes on. Plus, Dish's equipment is siginificantly better than what I have seen of most cable offerings.

B) I don't have a contract with Dish, their new leasing model makes it so that a contract is not necessary.

C) When it comes to the phone companies, NONE of them offer the bleeding edge of phones for free with contract. You can get A free phone, but they are generally extremely basic outdated phones. If you want the latest you will need a commitment AND pay several hundred dollars. So, Dish Network IS following their model. If you want a free receiver Dish offers the basic non-dvr model... and then has several options you can pay an upfront fee to get if you want to have the latest features.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bighifi said:


> I do know that when a new cable box comes out though I don't have to pay an upgrade fee I just go pick one up. Also I don't have a contract with my cable company, I can quite any time.


I tried upgrading my Comcast digital box once and they demanded that I pay for a "Professional Installation". This meant someone was going to drive it out to my house and hand it to me for a substantial fee. I still haven't convinced them that I need a new modem.

Don't be fooled; cable has their methods of separating you from your money that are much less obvious.

So, do you really think $240/year is no biggie? Seems to me that it darn near covers the cost of a ViP622.


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## N6ND (Jun 1, 2006)

pk325 said:


> I received a cold call offer for a no charge upgrade from my 942. I will be charged $199 and receive a $199 refund when they get my 942 back. It includes install and any additional antennae necessary. I accepted the offer, but had to take another call before finalizing. It took 2 more calls and then only a supervisor/specialist could complete the transaction, but it's all set up, just waiting for the new box. I was surfing this thread to see if anyone else got the offer, apparently not...


I also got a cold call from E* with the same offer which I accepted. Installation is scheduled for June 12. The price is definately right on this offer!!


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

ZigSteenine said:


> Do you have an XBOX or Playstaion? If so, why would you buy it in order to be able to purchase games from Sony or M$ to play on it?


Does Microsoft require you to pay a mothly rental fee for their Xbox after you bought it? And, do they also require you to turn it in when you are done with it? I am sure they recover their costs too but they dont demand the Xbox back nor do they ask you to pay a rental fee. As we all know the new PS3 will be much cheaper to buy than what it costs to make. Should Sony apply the same tactics to their PS3 as Dish does to their 622?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

motts said:


> Does Microsoft require you to pay a mothly rental fee for their Xbox after you bought it? And, do they also require you to turn it in when you are done with it? I am sure they recover their costs too but they dont demand the Xbox back nor do they ask you to pay a rental fee. As we all know the new PS3 will be much cheaper to buy than what it costs to make. Should Sony apply the same tactics to their PS3 as Dish does to their 622?


What are you talking about?

If you buy a ViP622 from Dish they will never ask for it back if you cancel service.

There is no, as far as I know, current lease model for XBox or PS3 that you could accurately compare to.

There are, however, video game rental places that also rent the consoles... and if you pay to rent the system enough times you could end up paying more than if you bought it... but you still wouldn't own it... and a lot of people do just that!


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> If you buy a ViP622 from Dish they will never ask for it back if you cancel service.
> 
> ...


Clearly you did not understand my point. Or the wording was bad, as I should not have said "bought" the XBOX. I am saying that if you pay 300 bucks for an XBOX there is no need to return it or pay a rental fee. Sure you can buy the reciever but thats not the point as I am comparing the fact that you have to pay upfront 300 bucks and then rent. I am sure stores rent the consoles but you can't tell me they require a huge fee like that upfront. In addition, you could wind up paying more in the end if you rent the console, but that happens over a period of time. If they let me rent the receiver with no upfront cost I am sure I would eventually meet its actual price at some point also. That is the argument here. If I am going to have to pay a rental fee, please don't charge me that upfront cost as well. Its also the fact that you have to return it at the end that bugs me. We are not leasing a car here.


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## ocanyc (May 30, 2006)

motts said:


> Clearly you did not understand my point. Or the wording was bad, as I should not have said "bought" the XBOX. I am saying that if you pay 300 bucks for an XBOX there is no need to return it or pay a rental fee. Sure you can buy the reciever but thats not the point as I am comparing the fact that you have to pay upfront 300 bucks and then rent. I am sure stores rent the consoles but you can't tell me they require a huge fee like that upfront. In addition, you could wind up paying more in the end if you rent the console, but that happens over a period of time. If they let me rent the receiver with no upfront cost I am sure I would eventually meet its actual price at some point also. That is the argument here. If I am going to have to pay a rental fee, please don't charge me that upfront cost as well. Its also the fact that you have to return it at the end that bugs me. We are not leasing a car here.


I agree with you 100%, unless of course they are indeed letting you keep it which they're not, then its not worth it. I'll wait for the better deal, so until then I'll be ok with the 211.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

motts said:


> Clearly you did not understand my point. Or the wording was bad, as I should not have said "bought" the XBOX. I am saying that if you pay 300 bucks for an XBOX there is no need to return it or pay a rental fee. Sure you can buy the reciever but thats not the point as I am comparing the fact that you have to pay upfront 300 bucks and then rent. I am sure stores rent the consoles but you can't tell me they require a huge fee like that upfront. In addition, you could wind up paying more in the end if you rent the console, but that happens over a period of time. If they let me rent the receiver with no upfront cost I am sure I would eventually meet its actual price at some point also. That is the argument here. If I am going to have to pay a rental fee, please don't charge me that upfront cost as well. Its also the fact that you have to return it at the end that bugs me. We are not leasing a car here.


But you can buy a ViP622 for $499 or less now if you want to own one. You are comparing their lease-offer with a purchase-offer of another product. The only real comparison would be to compare leasing an XBox (don't know how much that runs these days) with leasing a Dish receiver.

I suspect that in order to rent/lease an X-Box there is either a deposit required OR at least a credit card on file in case you damage or fail to return it so they can charge... and then I would imagine there is some per-night charge OR perhaps a 5-7 day flat rental fee or something. I don't really know, so I hesitate to really compare.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> But you can buy a ViP622 for $499 or less now if you want to own one. You are comparing their lease-offer with a purchase-offer of another product. The only real comparison would be to compare leasing an XBox (don't know how much that runs these days) with leasing a Dish receiver.
> 
> I suspect that in order to rent/lease an X-Box there is either a deposit required OR at least a credit card on file in case you damage or fail to return it so they can charge... and then I would imagine there is some per-night charge OR perhaps a 5-7 day flat rental fee or something. I don't really know, so I hesitate to really compare.


Formerly I was an assitant manager for Blockbuster. To rent a game machine There had to be a credit card on file with the knowledge that if it was not returned by the date due then 7 days later the card would be charged $200. And yes the cards were checked in advance that they worked by renting the machine on that card.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> Formerly I was an assitant manager for Blockbuster. To rent a game machine There had to be a credit card on file with the knowledge that if it was not returned by the date due then 7 days later the card would be charged $200. And yes the cards were checked in advance that they worked by renting the machine on that card.


Do you remember what the rental fee was for that 7 day period? Just for comparison sake.

I have no clue since I've not tried to rent a video game unit... but my gut says it could be in the $25-$50 range for that kind of time period.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Do you remember what the rental fee was for that 7 day period? Just for comparison sake.
> 
> I have no clue since I've not tried to rent a video game unit... but my gut says it could be in the $25-$50 range for that kind of time period.


I don't remember the rental fee for the units. The Deposit I remember cuz of the price of 200 but the actual rental fee I can't remember. It was tied in with rent the machine and get 3 games. The reason for remembering the deposit is so many griped about what if I just forget and don't bring it back in time that means we are gonna get charged too much. People would say for that kinda of money we could almost buy one. Well why did they think it was set at that price.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> I don't remember the rental fee for the units. The Deposit I remember cuz of the price of 200 but the actual rental fee I can't remember. It was tied in with rent the machine and get 3 games. The reason for remembering the deposit is so many griped about what if I just forget and don't bring it back in time that means we are gonna get charged too much. People would say for that kinda of money we could almost buy one. Well why did they think it was set at that price.


Yeah, I always like that... People want to "forget" but would not give the store the same room for error if the store "overcharged" them


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## Cali-Man (Jun 3, 2006)

N6ND said:


> I also got a cold call from E* with the same offer which I accepted. Installation is scheduled for June 12. The price is definately right on this offer!!


Just offered the same offer last night. Hope the 622 runs good as my 942!


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## ocanyc (May 30, 2006)

Dont they make offers for the 622 to the 211 leasers?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Cali-Man said:


> Just offered the same offer last night. Hope the 622 runs good as my 942!


Is this call coming from a local dealer or Dish itself? If it is a local dealer then he is jumping in to do the upgrades for some type of deal to get something out of the installs or something from Dish to do the upgrade. What is the commitment that goea along with it? If Dish is going national with this then we who did our own installs should be showing off emails to [email protected]. We should get an additional kickback for not having an installer come out and put in the Dish 1k.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ocanyc said:


> Dont they make offers for the 622 to the 211 leasers?


No special offers. ViP211 lessors will likely have to wait at least until their commitment is up before getting any additional special offers.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Are there any 9xx _owners_ getting the call?


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> But you can buy a ViP622 for $499 or less now if you want to own one. You are comparing their lease-offer with a purchase-offer of another product. The only real comparison would be to compare leasing an XBox (don't know how much that runs these days) with leasing a Dish receiver.
> 
> I suspect that in order to rent/lease an X-Box there is either a deposit required OR at least a credit card on file in case you damage or fail to return it so they can charge... and then I would imagine there is some per-night charge OR perhaps a 5-7 day flat rental fee or something. I don't really know, so I hesitate to really compare.


I see what you are saying. However, when renting an XBOX (in this case just for the sake of comparison) you dont pay the retailer 300 dollars just to get the chance at renting one. It is not a deposit with Dish, they keep this money, as you well know.

Also, how is it that the 211 rents for so much less than the 622? Isn't the only difference here that the 622 has a dvr? They cannot say they are offsetting their costs by charging for the HD receiver as their true HD receiver is much cheaper, which includes all installation as well. So, it looks to me that the addtional moneys go practically all toward the dvr portion of the 622. I know they have been selling dual tuner dvrs for a while now. So, 625 + 211 = 622. So why the $300 upfront fee?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

motts said:


> I see what you are saying. However, when renting an XBOX (in this case just for the sake of comparison) you dont pay the retailer 300 dollars just to get the chance at renting one. It is not a deposit with Dish, they keep this money, as you well know.
> 
> Also, how is it that the 211 rents for so much less than the 622? Isn't the only difference here that the 622 has a dvr? They cannot say they are offsetting their costs by charging for the HD receiver as their true HD receiver is much cheaper, which includes all installation as well. So, it looks to me that the addtional moneys go practically all toward the dvr portion of the 622. I know they have been selling dual tuner dvrs for a while now. So, 625 + 211 = 622. So why the $300 upfront fee?


True it does have 2 sat tuners but they are MPEG 4 tuners a bit more exotic than standard sat tuners that are in the standard dvr. It is nearly double the amt of electronics than is in the 211 plus a hard drive. 
One thing I notice yesterday when I watched one of those things that we rarely see anymore ( I think they are called commercials). It was for leasing a car. They were paying 2500 at signing then close to 500 per month for the term of the contract. If I understand this one has to pay the 2500 then the 500 per month and doen't get any of that back. Where as we pay up front then 200 is kicked back to us by not having to pay our bill until this amt has been removed from our account. Those that have leased a car please tell me if I'm correct.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

whatchel1 said:


> Those that have leased a car please tell me if I'm correct.


This is known as a drive-off fee. All automotive leases have them. If you don't see one, the dealer has worked out a kickback/rebate surrender scheme to cover the fee. Sometimes they are called a "down". It is mostly to show that you're serious and to cover the costs of the sale (transportation, prep, commissions, etc.).

Like the closed-end auto lease, you make a fixed monthly payment on your receiver and at the end of the lease (when you deactivate the receiver), you return it.


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

ZigSteenine said:


> Do you have an XBOX or Playstaion? If so, why would you buy it in order to be able to purchase games from Sony or M$ to play on it?


Because for the $149 for the PS2 (or original Xbox) or the $400 for the XBox 360 you own the box. I don't pay Sony or Microsoft an additional leasing fee each month.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

kbdrand said:


> Because for the $149 for the PS2 (or original Xbox) or the $400 for the XBox 360 you own the box. I don't pay Sony or Microsoft an additional leasing fee each month.


While this is true you do have to keep paying more money for new games to play on it. True you could just play the same game over and over and never pay anything more. You can also do this with Dish if you want to, you can buy the 622 record a bunch of content and then cancel your service, but because you own the 622 you could continue to watch everything you recorded on it without ever having to pay anything else. However if you want new content (just like the Xbox) you do have to pay for it. Now Dish also offers you the option of leasing the 622 if you want, to lease it you have to pay $299, have a major credit card and agree to pay for 18 months of programming. Now maybe for you that doesn't make sense, but the economics of it do work for many subscribers.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

kbdrand said:


> Because for the $149 for the PS2 (or original Xbox) or the $400 for the XBox 360 you own the box. I don't pay Sony or Microsoft an additional leasing fee each month.


Another comparison of a purchase of a game console to a lease of a Dish receiver.

Go find out how much it costs for you to lease/rent an XBox or PS2 and then come back here and make that comparison.

Otherwise, for $500 you could own a ViP622 (not much more than an XBox 360)


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Another comparison of a purchase of a game console to a lease of a Dish receiver.
> 
> Go find out how much it costs for you to lease/rent an XBox or PS2 and then come back here and make that comparison.
> 
> Otherwise, for $500 you could own a ViP622 (not much more than an XBox 360)


I don't know how much renting a console costs, but I do know when you buy the XBOX 360, you will get a good 5 years of service out of it, without having to worry about XBOX 720 or XBOX 1080 being released after you just bought it. Ask anyone that PURCHASED a 921 how they feel.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

motts said:


> I don't know how much renting a console costs, but I do know when you buy the XBOX 360, you will get a good 5 years of service out of it, without having to worry about XBOX 720 or XBOX 1080 being released after you just bought it. Ask anyone that PURCHASED a 921 how they feel.


The original XBox is only a few years old... and some folks bought an XBox less than 1 year before the XBox360 came out.

I can't/won't defend the problems (technical problems) people have had with a Dish 921 DVR... but the people who have a working 921 can still use it today. They just can't get all the new channels.

Much like XBox owners can still use their original XBox today... but they can't play the new XBox360 games.

These video game comparisons are really only serving to prove Dish is doing the norm for this kind of technology.


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## megeed (May 16, 2006)

Seems like the price dropped to $199.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

megeed said:


> Seems like the price dropped to $199.


DISH: Give early adopters the $100 back, which they deserve.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Chandu said:


> DISH: Give early adopters the $100 back, which they deserve.


Why?

If every company gave retroactive rebates to everyone that ever bought anything... companies would go bankrupt!

Early adopters always pay more... that's how it works.

Especially when you consider we discussed at length how people who waited would undoubtedly save money as the deals would get better over the course of the next year or two.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Chandu said:


> DISH: Give early adopters the $100 back, which they deserve.


So when the hardware eventually becomes free w. subscription, should those paying $199 now get their money back as well, what about when they offer it free plus X amount of months programming free as well, should those buying now get their programming for free as well....

Its the way business works... early adopters pay more and things get cheaper over time. If companies gave rebates for their products that they ALREADY? sold every time there was a price drop, we all would be paying next to nothing for eveything we own.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Chandu said:


> DISH: Give early adopters the $100 back, which they deserve.


Don't be an idiot. Early adopters pay more. Period.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Chandu said:


> DISH: Give early adopters the $100 back, which they deserve.


It's time for this theard to go bye - bye. It is just a sour grapes commentary from those that paid a bit more than others. The price may continue to lower gradually over time but you have had the equipment long before those new guys. Think of how much more enjoyment you will have had than them.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

I do not expect my $100 back but I do understand the frustration. Most early adopters enjoy more than two months LOL.

You have to admit that the price dropped faster than many of us had thought. Had I thought two months would have saved me $100 I would have waited.

If only I could predict the future LOL.

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> I do not expect my $100 back but I do understand the frustration. Most early adopters enjoy more than two months LOL.
> 
> You have to admit that the price dropped faster than many of us had thought. Had I thought two months would have saved me $100 I would have waited.
> 
> ...


Any time the price drops there is invariably someone who just bought it... This is true virtually all the time. Even if they didn't drop the price until 2 months from now, there would still be someone who just bought it at the old price!

A lot of people didn't even want to wait after Feb 1st for the $200 credit on the tradein of 942/921. Many folks jumped initially instead of waiting for $200 back... so I'm guessing that is still just as true now.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

lakebum431 said:


> Don't be an idiot. Early adopters pay more. Period.


No need to call names. I haven't had 622 for months like most early adopters here (like since March or February, whenever it first came out). I've only had it for 2 weeks or so, and think I'm justified to at least negotiate with DISH on my own due to this short duration. I'm going to continue pursuing this.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Deals change. That is life. You were obviously happy with the deal when you got it (or you wouldn't have paid for it). I am very very tired of hearing people complain that they just missed a good deal. Reminds me of an old lady complaining that soup was on sale last week for 49 cents at her local Kroger last week, but it is 69 cents this week. Just be happy with the deals that you make and move on.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Chandu said:


> No need to call names. I haven't had 622 for months like most early adopters here (like since March or February, whenever it first came out). I've only had it for 2 weeks or so, and think I'm justified to at least negotiate with DISH on my own due to this short duration. I'm going to continue pursuing this.


Do then tell us.


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