# One week back and already getting the shaft



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Ive been with Directv since the first week they were live. I was the first one to buy a Sony T-60 Tivo, with lifetime DVR service. Two years ago, I dropped Directv for a couldnt refuse deal from Comcast. Before leaving, I researched the Terms and Conditions, and verified I would not lose my lifetime DVR service. 

Fast forward to last week. Comcast promo expired. I had the following options:
1:Reactivate my owned HR24-500 and H24 on my old account and maintain my free DVR service
2:Start a new account and get an HR54 Genie and a slave
3:Subscribe to Dish for the first time and get their new Hopper with mega tuners and 3 yr price lock.

I first called DirecTv and spoke to a CSR about the reactivation and the Lifetime DVR. She checked my account, found like line item for lifetime DVR and said it was still valid, and told me even reactivating my account I would qualify for a promo (Which was Choice with free movie channels for 3 months, and 2016 NFL Sunday Ticket) for $39 a month, plus HD fee. I decided to go that route and requested the send me access cards. The next day, I received a call that they were required to send a tech to install a new dish (even though my current dish was still getting 100's). Stupid, but I said fine. Tech showed up while I was at work. He apparently read the work order wrong, and installed a leased HR24 instead of activating my owned unit. By the time I arrived home and explained what happened, he said he would not even be able to activate my owned receiver as he didnt have a card for it. He called the Access Card department and ordered a card for it, and told me I could keep both DVRs if I wanted, for just the extra receiver fee. Sounded ok to me.

Fast Forward to today:
I get a call from the escalation department. They tell me they no longer offer lifetime DVR service (even though it is CLEARLY spelled out in their terms and conditions), but said they would be glad to give me a $10 per month credit for the term of my 24 month contract. I tell them it was a 12 month contract, and provided the email confirming that. I am then told that since I have a leased DVR, the minimum contract is 24 months, not the 12 months I agreed to. I am told they cannot find that email, so tomorrow I have to FAX them a copy (apparently they have no way to receive emails).

Firstly, it is obvious my lifetime DVR fee exemption is history.
Secondly, if I was told I would be required to agree to a two year contract (rather than the 12 month contract I agreed to), I would CERTAINLY have requested an HR54 Genie with 5 tuners, rather than a two tuner HR24, for the lease.

I have a 4K TV, and the only reason I didnt go that route in the first place, was I didnt want to get locked into a two year contract, with all the streaming providers popping up, which certainly might provide me a much less costly solution a year from now, as well as being eligible for the new customer deals from Comcast.

I requested they just send a return box for their leased DVR, keep the first months payment, and turn the account off, since they were obviously violating their own terms and conditions regarding the lifetime DVR, and the fraudulent way they are attempting to hook me into a two year contact due to their own installers mistake (which wasnt even required to come here in the first place). They refused and told me I would have to pay $450 to terminate the contact.

By the way, the told me I had to pay $8 up front to send the tech out, and said they would not store the credit card information. I see on their website now they not only saved it, but signed me up for auto-billpay without my knowledge .

This is NOT the DirecTv I left two years ago. It smacks a LOT of the AT&T company I had disconnect my internet 4 years ago over this same type of underhanded crap.

So, I ask the smart members of the team on the website here... Am I screwed into a two year contact? Can I request an arbitration? Can I demand if I have to submit to a two year contract that they provide me an HR54 4K Genie?

I am very disappointed so far, and really wish I had decided to go with Dish now.

Anyone have any suggestions or found a way to force them to abide by their terms and conditions and reenable the lifetime DVR examption as it is spelled out?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

"*One week back and already getting the shaft*"

What's that old saying..._ 'They get the goldmine, you get the shaft.'_

:sure:


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The problem with the 4K is that it requires Premiere or Ultimate and the HR54 can't play back 4K, only record it. You need a 4K compatible RVU TV or a C61k to play it (at another additional TV fee.)


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Seriously the DVR wont play back what it records without a C61K on the same TV? That is the most stupid thing I can imagine.

Even excluding 4K, the first look showed it to blow the doors off all their other DVRs not to mention the extra 3 tuners. Im not really crying about the 4K thing, it would be nice, but just the general way they mislead me (I wont say lie, because I am sure the CSR thought they would reinstate me lifetime DVR, and even the access card department TRIED to reactivate it, but the option was "greyed out" in their computer), and doubled to contract due to their own mistake. I mean seriously, I can afford to pay full price for the service for the second year, its more about the way they are going about ignoring their own rules when it benefits them.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the HR44 speedwise, though I just got my 54 today so haven't had much experience with it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I can't believe they have anything written anywhere that says you can come back after two years and still have free DVR service. If it's truly written then I'd send that to them but I have a hard time with that sense years ago when I was selling that we where told to tell people it was good as long as you kept the service. You didn't keep your service. 

I'd write a letter. It'd go something like this. Your installer made a mistake. He didn't activate my owned unit as he should have so... Either fix it and get that one active the leased one off and make it a one year deal or get me a genie because that's what I would have gotten had I been told to get something other than my owned DVR. 

A nice calm approach yet firm one should yield you results on some of this IMHO. Just make sure you are dealing with real DIRECTV employees and not att ones learning DIRECTV.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Davenlr said:


> Seriously the DVR wont play back what it records without a C61K on the same TV? *That is the most stupid thing I can imagine.*
> 
> . . . . .


I couldn't agree more. It why I'm getting my 4K feet wet until 4K really gets establish.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> Ive been with Directv since the first week they were live. I was the first one to buy a Sony T-60 Tivo, with lifetime DVR service. Two years ago, I dropped Directv for a couldnt refuse deal from Comcast. Before leaving, I researched the Terms and Conditions, and verified I would not lose my lifetime DVR service.
> 
> Fast forward to last week. Comcast promo expired. I had the following options:
> 1:Reactivate my owned HR24-500 and H24 on my old account and maintain my free DVR service
> ...


Two years ago you left DIRECTV for a deal you couldn't refuse from "Comcrap". The "Comcrap" deal expires and you decide you want DIRECTV again. You are correct when you state this is not the DIRECTV you left two years ago. Two years ago DIRECTV was a company that provided satellite TV service. Today DIRECTV is a satellite TV service provided by AT&T. I could be wrong but my take is had you stayed with DIRECTV the terms of your account would have been grandfathered when AT&T bought DIRECTV but because you left you now fall under the new terms of AT&T. CSRs are a luck of the draw. Always get their name and ID number. Tends to keep things honest and professional. In my area tech visits can be scheduled seven days a week. You should have inquired if tech visits in your area are available seven days a week so you could have scheduled your visit when you could have been home. I understand your disappointment but it was your decisions that initiated the series of events you describe. You have more decisions to make. Choose wisely.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Stay or Go and Pay the Freight or Pay the Termnation fee - Happy Easter


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

I would never have scheduled any one to set up any tv service without me being here. In fact, I never have. I've always been here for any visit by a tech.,


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Sorry you seem to be getting the shaft. And it further shows that making 'deals' on the phone is just bad for the consumer. I've gotten less and less tolerant of putting up with companies that don't allow for written communication in doing these things. No writing, no proof.

It is one of the reasons I left Mediacom, they insist on doing most things only via phone call and after a couple of relatively minor 'changes' that were always in their favor, I dropped them.

And I notice in this thread that the usual suspects show up to apologize for bad behavior by the provider, nothing new about that and certainly not unique to D*.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

You should be able to keep the lifetime DVR like you said. We had it, too, and took a hiatus to TWC around 2004-2006..... when we signed back up we got to keep the lifetime DVR.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Seriously the DVR wont play back what it records without a C61K on the same TV? That is the most stupid thing I can imagine.
> 
> Even excluding 4K, the first look showed it to blow the doors off all their other DVRs not to mention the extra 3 tuners. Im not really crying about the 4K thing, it would be nice, but just the general way they mislead me (I wont say lie, because I am sure the CSR thought they would reinstate me lifetime DVR, and even the access card department TRIED to reactivate it, but the option was "greyed out" in their computer), and doubled to contract due to their own mistake. I mean seriously, I can afford to pay full price for the service for the second year, its more about the way they are going about ignoring their own rules when it benefits them.





Drucifer said:


> I couldn't agree more. It why I'm getting my 4K feet wet until 4K really gets establish.


_I have an HR20 that can record 3D but it can't play it. I can play it on my other DVRs._


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> _*Seriously the DVR wont play back what it records without a C61K on the same TV?*_ That is the most stupid thing I can imagine.
> 
> Even excluding 4K, the first look showed it to blow the doors off all their other DVRs not to mention the extra 3 tuners. Im not really crying about the 4K thing, it would be nice, but just the general way they mislead me (I wont say lie, because I am sure the CSR thought they would reinstate me lifetime DVR, and even the access card department TRIED to reactivate it, but the option was "greyed out" in their computer), and doubled to contract due to their own mistake. I mean seriously, I can afford to pay full price for the service for the second year, its more about the way they are going about ignoring their own rules when it benefits them.


Yup, you're in the middle of a real 4K cluster****. I have a 4K set, but I'm gonna wait until they put out a 4K Genie or I'm gonna cut the D* cord. I'm sick of paying for my owned equipment and half the cost of my monthly bill is for equipment.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

IMO, too early to make firm decisions on 4K with any one of the providers IMO. D* seems to have taken an odd route at the moment, but they have already announced at least something live in 4K.

Dish has the 4K H3 and a 4K Joey, but so far just VOD 4K. And even that is going through growing pains as they work out some issues.

For me I'm standing pat with what I have. A 4K tv, the Hopper 3, and some streaming apps/boxes that support 4K.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> IMO, too early to make firm decisions on 4K with any one of the providers IMO. D* seems to have taken an odd route at the moment, but they have already announced at least something live in 4K.
> 
> Dish has the 4K H3 and a 4K Joey, but so far just VOD 4K. And even that is going through growing pains as they work out some issues.
> 
> ...


I think that's the smartest thing to do at the moment. There's enough 4K content on NF and AP to keep me happy at the moment and the upscaled PQ of D*, while not really approaching 4K is better than my 1080p plasma. I certainly wouldn't want to get locked into a 2 year comittment by getting 54 (not that I would, it would be a straight swap for my owned 44) and still have to add a C61K. There simply isn't anything 4K that D* offers at this time that interests me.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The upscaled PQ of E* on my 4K TV is amazing too. Initially I was connected via the AVR and thought it was excellent, but then they did a one-day update that kicked in the HDCP crap and that wouldn't work for any 4K at all. Now I'm connected directly to the TV itself, and the PQ improved. The AVR, even in bypass mode, must have been doing something though I couldn't tell you what.




Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The problem with trying to get lifetime DVR service as a new (returning) customer is that Directv no longer has a "DVR service" charge on the bill they can credit.


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

In the pre-AT&T days, the Office of the President group knew how to restore lifetime DVR service to an account. I don't know if that group still exists under the new ownership.


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

What is "upscaled PQ of E*"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

n3vino said:


> I've always been here for any visit by a tech.,


I don't let techs come to my house or touch any of my stuff.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

kram said:


> What is "upscaled PQ of E*"?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The up scaling of the picture to 4K that is done by the TV. Sorry for using the wrong words.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:
 

> The upscaled PQ of E* on my 4K TV is amazing too. Initially I was connected via the AVR and thought it was excellent, but then they did a one-day update that kicked in the HDCP crap and that wouldn't work for any 4K at all. Now I'm connected directly to the TV itself, and the PQ improved. The AVR, even in bypass mode, must have been doing something though I couldn't tell you what.
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


I have yet to buy a 4K enabled AVR. I took one shot at it and failed. I'm gonna wait until all this stuff settles down and then get one.

4K does get expensive, I must say that.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> I have yet to buy a 4K enabled AVR. I took one shot at it and failed. I'm gonna wait until all this stuff settles down and then get one.
> 
> 4K does get expensive, I must say that.
> 
> Rich


Me too! Since I've got all my 4K sources working just fine and I'm getting the best audio the streams can give anyway, there is no reason to buy an AVR that is 4K until I think getting a 4K Blu-Ray is worth it. At the moment, it isn't as the movies are too expensive and not nearly enough of them.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I can't believe they have anything written anywhere that says you can come back after two years and still have free DVR service. If it's truly written then I'd send that to them but I have a hard time with that sense years ago when I was selling that we where told to tell people it was good as long as you kept the service. You didn't keep your service.


From section 7 of their current customer terms and conditions:
"If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service."


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Did your account number remain the same after this installation?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> You should have inquired if tech visits in your area are available seven days a week so you could have scheduled your visit when you could have been home.


Actually, I did schedule the visit for when I would be home, but got called out on an emergency service call. I did arrive back before the tech left, and all looked fine. My only mistake was not realizing until the install was complete, that he used an HR24 he brought with in, rather than my owned unit. He did call while I was there, to "update" the account to send me an access card for my DVR, once we realized he had activated the leased unit, and at no time did the person on the phone change or notify me of any change, to the contract I agreed to by email, which I did fax to DirecTv today showing the 12 month commitment. I will also be sending them a copy of their own terms and conditions, and requesting them to reactivate my DVR service (which IS being listed on my bill as a separate line item).

In any event, I will keep the service. I may just need to keep it a year longer than planned (although I may have kept it anyway). What I will *NOT* do, is allow them to screw me out of something printed in black and white in their customer agreement. If they continue to deny me that reinstatement, they will simply lose a customer after two years in their best case, or have to answer a complaint from the State Attorney Generals consumer protection office, and go through arbitration per their agreement, which they have to lose, since they are doing the exact opposite of what the agreement I signed said they would do (See post above).

As for the trolls and defenders, the quit and leave bunch, etc, you can save your posts. Other than two years of $35/mo Comcast equivalent of DirecTvs highest non-premium package with no HD or DVR fees, Ive been with DirecTv since the first week they were in business (RCA receiver with 18" dish). My account number is between 5700 and 5800, and I know how this all works.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Did your account number remain the same after this installation?


Yes, same 4 digit account number


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Yes, same 4 digit account number


They definitely owe you, then.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> They definitely owe you, then.


I just noticed you joined DBSTALK a week before I did.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> I just noticed you joined DBSTALK a week before I did.


I think I was looking into the good old HR20 back then. lol


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> Actually, I did schedule the visit for when I would be home, but got called out on an emergency service call. I did arrive back before the tech left, and all looked fine. My only mistake was not realizing until the install was complete, that he used an HR24 he brought with in, rather than my owned unit. He did call while I was there, to "update" the account to send me an access card for my DVR, once we realized he had activated the leased unit, and at no time did the person on the phone change or notify me of any change, to the contract I agreed to by email, which I did fax to DirecTv today showing the 12 month commitment. I will also be sending them a copy of their own terms and conditions, and requesting them to reactivate my DVR service (which IS being listed on my bill as a separate line item).
> 
> In any event, I will keep the service. I may just need to keep it a year longer than planned (although I may have kept it anyway). What I will *NOT* do, is allow them to screw me out of something printed in black and white in their customer agreement. If they continue to deny me that reinstatement, they will simply lose a customer after two years in their best case, or have to answer a complaint from the State Attorney Generals consumer protection office, and go through arbitration per their agreement, which they have to lose, since they are doing the exact opposite of what the agreement I signed said they would do (See post above).
> 
> As for the trolls and defenders, the quit and leave bunch, etc, you can save your posts. Other than two years of $35/mo Comcast equivalent of DirecTvs highest non-premium package with no HD or DVR fees, Ive been with DirecTv since the first week they were in business (RCA receiver with 18" dish). My account number is between 5700 and 5800, and I know how this all works.


As I stated in post #8 I understand your disappointment. You were a long term customer with a company called DIRECTV (a satellite TV service provider) and had free lifetime DVR Service with "that" company. Two years ago you left DIRECTV to take advantage of a offer from Comcast. During those two years DIRECTV was purchased by AT&T, a different company from the one you left. That purchase transformed DIRECTV from being a company that provided satellite TV service to a satellite TV service using the DIRECTV name provided by AT&T. That said, you are now dealing with AT&T. Whether they have to grandfather your free lifetime DVR Service agreement after your two year hiatus will be determined. I wish you well.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Without having anything to read, you ended the original agreement. 
If one can come and go and be bound by an older agreement that's pretty unique.

Any chance you can post of copy of the original agreement that has the lifetime performance, even if you cancel and leave the company?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> That said, you are now dealing with AT&T. Whether they have to grandfather your free lifetime DVR Service agreement after your two year hiatus will be determined.


Why? This is what is CURRENTLY on the DIRECTV/AT&T Web site under terms of service:



> If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.


The TS has a valid case. But getting this corrected is going to be a problem as the Contact Us Web page on DIRECTV goes into the AT&T endless loop.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

NR4P said:


> Without having anything to read, you ended the original agreement.
> If one can come and go and be bound by an older agreement that's pretty unique.
> 
> Any chance you can post of copy of the original agreement that has the lifetime performance, even if you cancel and leave the company?


Agree.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

trh said:


> Why? This is what is CURRENTLY on the DIRECTV/AT&T Web site under terms of service:
> 
> The TS has a valid case. But getting this corrected is going to be a problem as the Contact Us Web page on DIRECTV goes into the AT&T endless loop.


There's a difference between disconnecting your service and ending your service.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> There's a difference between disconnecting your service and ending your service.


Since he has the same account number he had before, looks like he just had it disconnected. Had it ended service, he would have been give a new account number.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Me too! Since I've got all my 4K sources working just fine and I'm getting the best audio the streams can give anyway, there is no reason to buy an AVR that is 4K until I think getting a 4K Blu-Ray is worth it. At the moment, it isn't as the movies are too expensive and not nearly enough of them.


I've given up on buying discs. I just donated a couple bins (big bins) of DVDs to a local church. There went a lot of money. A few years ago, I gave away several bins of VHS tapes. I don't have any idea how much I paid for either the tapes or the DVDs, but it must have been a lot of money. I'll stick with my NF sub for discs and streaming. A couple years ago, I bought a 4K upscaler (actually bought two of them), just an impulse buy. It does a very good job of upscaling 1080p BDs.

Rich


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

trh said:


> Since he has the same account number he had before, looks like he just had it disconnected. Had it ended service, he would have been give a new account number.


In post #1 Davenir states he "dropped" (To terminate an association or relationship) DIRECTV to take advantage of the Comcast offer. He didn't say he "suspended" his account. Per DIRECTV customers with only one account are allowed 2 suspend request every 12 months. Total time with service suspended cannot exceed "6 months". Extensions on the 6 month limit can be granted under certain circumstances. In 2010 I sold my house and purchased another. When we vacated our old house I suspended my DIRECTV for 6 months because of modifications I made on the new house I purchased. Those modifications took longer than anticipated and DIRECTV allowed me to continue my suspension for another 2 months. During that time I still received monthly statements on my account. When one suspends their account they're putting it on hold and not ending it. When drops their account they're ending it.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have never seen an offer that continued after an interruption of the offer. If you leave or in many cases dowgrade the service the special offer ends.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Just wondering why he has his same account number back.

But the issue is probably moot. AT&T Customer Service won't do anything for him. I tried to find the page on how to email the office of the president at DIRECTV, but couldn't. Just a 'click here' that takes you back one page and then if you want more options to contact them, another 'click here' that takes you back again.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I have never seen an offer that continued after an interruption of the offer. If you leave or in many cases dowgrade the service the special offer ends.


Did you read this part of the TOS? (Under the Lifetime Service Fee)


> If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

trh said:


> Did you read this part of the TOS? (Under the Lifetime Service Fee)


I didn't.
I know when all this came out I called them about it and told it was for 2 years for an existing customer. They gave me that ( 2 years free ) and sent an email confirmation.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

trh said:


> Just wondering why he has his same account number back.
> 
> But the issue is probably moot. AT&T Customer Service won't do anything for him. I tried to find the page on how to email the office of the president at DIRECTV, but couldn't. Just a 'click here' that takes you back one page and then if you want more options to contact them, another 'click here' that takes you back again.


The account number probably isn't relevant. I know other companies that reinstate original numbers to track first service dates.. And AT&T buying Directv is not very relevant either since they can't ignore agreements that were part of the company they purchased. Unless the original company filed for bankruptcy and was relieved of debts and obligations. We all know that is not the case here.

The OP wants Directv to abide by the original agreement.
So if he can post the agreement that he wishes Directv to abide by, we can all read it and determine what is the right course. Like a jury. Yes I know it's not a jury trial but mediation tends to be realistic and it will go by the original agreement if that's what the OP is citing.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

> If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.


Is that talking about Tivo's lifetime service fee for the HR10 and THR22, or did Directv at some time offer some sort of one-time fee you could pay for lifetime DVR service?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

NR4P said:


> The OP wants Directv to abide by the original agreement.
> So if he can post the agreement that he wishes Directv to abide by, we can all read it and determine what is the right course. Like a jury. Yes I know it's not a jury trial but mediation tends to be realistic and it will go by the original agreement if that's what the OP is citing.


Would the original agreement be relevant? The current TOS says this:

*RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT*
*Effective as of June 24, 2015, until replaced*

So I would guess that his original agreement was replaced at some point and is no longer in effect?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I didn't.
> I know when all this came out I called them about it and told it was for 2 years for an existing customer. They gave me that ( 2 years free ) and sent an email confirmation.


I think you got the DVR free credit for 24 months. That was not the same as the Lifetime Service Fee.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

trh said:


> I think you got the DVR free credit for 24 months. That was not the same as the Lifetime Service Fee.


That was when they were offering new customers DVR free for life and I asked why we long time customers could not get that.
What is a Lifetime Service fee ? Can it still be had ?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Is that talking about Tivo's lifetime service fee for the HR10 and THR22, or did Directv at some time offer some sort of one-time fee you could pay for lifetime DVR service?


It was available with Tivo's prior to those... the old SD ones.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Many years ago you could get free lifetime DVR service. 

Then they started including it in premier package. 

Then... So on and so forth...

Things change but they usually grandfather you in. 

I would have assumed disconnected would mean moved or suspended. 

I also believe DIRECTV has always in theory said you aren't a new customer agin for two years... Does that also imply after two years you can't simply reconnect? I don't know. 

And no there's no way for anyone today to add free DVR service for life.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

trh said:


> Since he has the same account number he had before, looks like he just had it disconnected. Had it ended service, he would have been give a new account number.


My account number is a low 6-digit number, as my original service date with DirecTV was in the mid 1990s sometime (when they first became available). I cancelled service for about 2 years, then re-established it, a number of years ago, and was given the same account number I originally had. I don't know if AT&T will do that now, but DirecTV did, at least at one time.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Rich said:


> A couple years ago, I bought a 4K upscaler (actually bought two of them), just an impulse buy. It does a very good job of upscaling 1080p BDs.
> 
> Rich


Rich, I thought 4K TVs upscaled everything to 4K internally? No?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Yes, that is what they are attempting to do for me (to their credit), is they gave me a $10 credit for 24 months, the term of the contact (according to them, my signed agreement said 12 months, but that is an entirely different issue). The poster above is correct, they removed the option to reinstate the lifetime DVR service fee exemption from their computer system. The Access Card department as well as several other departments attempted to reinstate it for me (which in itself tells me they agree I should be getting it). So, their only option was to offer me a $10 credit per month for 24 months, and I assume have me call back to get another years credit every year I keep it.

What they SHOULD have done, is REMOVE that option from their Terms of Service (which I received upon reconnection and specifically verified was still in effect before even ordering service), or re-enable that option on their computer. 

Its not like there are a million customers that paid a lifetime DVR fee for a Sony Sat T-60 Tivo DVR with DirecTv service back in the early 90's.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yep. They should. You are right about that for sure.


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

By the way, lifetime DVR service didn't come for free. It cost $199 IIRC, and I've had it for over 16 years. 

Directv (AT&T) is obligated to honor its contract terms. About ten years ago, Directv had to reach a settlement with several state attorneys general because it had failed to honor the lifetime DVR service agreement terms. I hope the OP keeps pressing them to get his lifetime DVR service restored.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Depends.... One of the free dvr for life was available if you simply got and kept premiere as I recall...


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Depends.... One of the free dvr for life was available if you simply got and kept premiere as I recall...


There were a few different ways at different times. Very confusing.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Rich, I thought 4K TVs upscaled everything to 4K internally? No?


Yeah, they do and I didn't have one when I bought the upscaling BD players, but they do upscale very well. At least as well as the 4K set I have now. I've been using the 4K set for viewing NF and Amazon content for a few weeks now and it does upscale very well. Still not sure which is better, tho. And history tells us the TV sets don't get upgraded as time goes by, but I know Samsung BD players don't get many upgrades either. I don't have nearly as many apps on the TV as I do on the upscalers or my Apple TV box. There are definitely pros and cons.

Rich


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Yes, that is what they are attempting to do for me (to their credit), is they gave me a $10 credit for 24 months, the term of the contact (according to them, my signed agreement said 12 months, but that is an entirely different issue). The poster above is correct, they removed the option to reinstate the lifetime DVR service fee exemption from their computer system. The Access Card department as well as several other departments attempted to reinstate it for me (which in itself tells me they agree I should be getting it). So, their only option was to offer me a $10 credit per month for 24 months, and I assume have me call back to get another years credit every year I keep it.
> 
> *What they SHOULD have done, is REMOVE that option from their Terms of Service (which I received upon reconnection and specifically verified was still in effect before even ordering service), or re-enable that option on their computer. *
> 
> Its not like there are a million customers that paid a lifetime DVR fee for a Sony Sat T-60 Tivo DVR with DirecTv service back in the early 90's.


Unless you have a contract or some document in writing about the lifetime service carrying forward as your have stated, whether it be mediation, the BBB, or yelling, you won't win this one. If you have it, I know a few of use would like to read it.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

trh said:


> Would the original agreement be relevant? The current TOS says this:
> 
> *RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT*
> *Effective as of June 24, 2015, until replaced*
> ...


The OP stated his original agreement had the lifetime service. That's the one that matters if that's what the claim is all about.

The 2015 may come into play but without the original, the claim is without substance.


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## Whiskey River (Apr 7, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> I think I was looking into the good old HR20 back then. lol


still have my original HR20 that I picked up at bestbuy for $299.00 It just did a firmware update this past easter weekend.
it started messing up recordings so I had it converted to owned and put in a 2TB hitachi drive, and that's been over three
years ago. It was always faster than that stupid HR22 I got from Costco, hell when I replaced that with a HR24 from
solid signal, D* didn't want that POC/S HR22. they did want the access card back. I wonder what that means
are there people still doing that crap ?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Access cards contain any ppv info etc so they double check it to make sure you've paid for all your ppvs...


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NR4P said:


> Unless you have a contract or some document in writing about the lifetime service carrying forward as your have stated, whether it be mediation, the BBB, or yelling, you won't win this one. If you have it, I know a few of use would like to read it.


It is written in section 7 of their current Term of Service agreement. And I have it in the written copy they gave me when signed the paperwork. It was also listed on every bill I paid from 1992 to 2014. Its not a matter of whether I should get it back (access card department already said I should), its a matter of AT&T having modified the computer code preventing ANYONE from reinstating it. The option is now greyed out on their computer. What they FORGOT to do, was remove it from their terms of service, which I expect will happen any time now. In the mean time, I got my $10/mo for 24 months. By then, I expect there will be better options than linear TV to subscribe to.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm sure someone somewhere could fix it.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> It is written in section 7 of their current Term of Service agreement. And I have it in the written copy they gave me when signed the paperwork. It was also listed on every bill I paid from 1992 to 2014. Its not a matter of whether I should get it back (access card department already said I should), its a matter of AT&T having modified the computer code preventing ANYONE from reinstating it. The option is now greyed out on their computer. What they FORGOT to do, was remove it from their terms of service, which I expect will happen any time now. In the mean time, I got my $10/mo for 24 months. By then, I expect there will be better options than linear TV to subscribe to.


Thus far you've claimed that your original agreement states it's Lifetime Service even if you leave and come back. Just post it. Can you take a picture and post it so all of us can read it?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

NR4P said:


> Thus far you've claimed that your original agreement states it's Lifetime Service even if you leave and come back. Just post it. Can you take a picture and post it so all of us can read it?


Agreements often have the wording "We reserve the right to change terms and conditions..." or "Pricing and conditions subject to change...". I too would like to see the original agreement statement so we can read it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

"If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service."

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/legal/customer_agreement


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

So how does that work now that there is no "DVR service" fee for new customers, but instead an "Advanced Receiver Fee"? Do they charge that fee only if you have a DVR, i.e. even an H44 doesn't incur that fee? If so you could argue that even though it has a different name, it is essentially a DVR fee. If they drop that fee entirely in the future, you'd probably have a hard time claiming a credit for a fee they no longer charge, however.

Or does a returning customer get billed differently than a returning customer, so he will still have a DVR fee on his bill?


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## dcandmc (Sep 24, 2008)

Herdfan said:


> I don't let techs come to my house or touch any of my stuff.


Is your name Francis, by any chance? :grin:


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

James Long said:


> "If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service."
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/legal/customer_agreement


That's a 2015 agreement.
The OP claims it goes back many years and that's the agreement the OP is calling out as entitling him.

Thus far we haven't seen that agreement.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

lol


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NR4P said:


> Thus far you've claimed that your original agreement states it's Lifetime Service even if you leave and come back. Just post it. Can you take a picture and post it so all of us can read it?


Why would I post it when its currently on their website, right at this moment, and has been copied and pasted here already? If you are talking about the line item on my own bill, that section of the bill simply reads:
Advanced Receiver-HD Monthly 10.00
Advanced Receiver-DVR Lifetime 0.00
DIRECTV Whole-Home DVR Service Monthly 3.00


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Or does a returning customer get billed differently than a returning customer, so he will still have a DVR fee on his bill?


Yes, they are billed differently. I dont have one all inclusive advanced receiver fee, but three separate line items, on for HD, one for DVR and one for Whole Home.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NR4P said:


> That's a 2015 agreement.
> The OP claims it goes back many years and that's the agreement the OP is calling out as entitling him.
> 
> Thus far we haven't seen that agreement.


It is the same agreement that James Long just quoted. It hasnt changed since 1992. Now, Im sorry, I do not have a copy of the terms and service from 1992, nor would they be relevant to today. Today we are covered by the current terms and service, and what James Long posted above is correct as to the current terms and service agreement. Like I said, DirecTv is not arguing that I am not entitled to it, they are telling me they cannot reenable it. It has been removed as an option from their computer, which is why the next closest thing they could do was give me the $10/mo credit for 24 months on my bill.

Monetarily we are good for 24 months. It just seems odd to me they would remove that option from the computer and not from the terms of service. They is nothing requiring them to continue grandfathering a deal made in 1992, but since it is in writing, and was promised to me on reactivating my account, I sort of expected it.

Now you may wonder, if I am getting the $10 credit, what difference does it make? The difference is, if I had signed up as a NEW customer (new account number) I would have qualified for $10 less per month on the programming for the first 12 months, would have been eligible for a free Genie, and eligible for up to 3 more rooms on the installation. By choosing to reactivate my OLD account to retain the free DVR service, I lost out on being able to get an HR54 and C61 4K setup, as well as a lower price on my programming.

All in all, however, I am perfectly satisfied with the service, the monthly credit, and the two HR24s for two years. Then I will see what the future offers.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> Why would I post it when its currently on their website, right at this moment, and has been copied and pasted here already? If you are talking about the line item on my own bill, that section of the bill simply reads:
> Advanced Receiver-HD Monthly 10.00
> Advanced Receiver-DVR Lifetime 0.00
> DIRECTV Whole-Home DVR Service Monthly 3.00


I doubt the agreement that came with the Sony T-60 Tivo you purchased years ago is the same as the agreement currently posted on DIRECTV's website. Do you have a copy of the agreement that came with the Sony T-60 Tivo and if so can you post it so we can read it?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I doubt the agreement that came with the Sony T-60 Tivo you purchased years ago is the same as the agreement currently posted on DIRECTV's website. Do you have a copy of the agreement that came with the Sony T-60 Tivo and if so can you post it so we can read it?


Why do you doubt that? Go use the way-back machine and you'll see the same terms.

Like anyone here reading his original contract/TOS is going to make any difference with DIRECTV.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Of course it is not the same as the current agreement for new customers.
In 1992, you could purchase a receiver from any company that chose to market a directv receiver. RCA, Sony, Huges, and several others.
When Tivo and Sony came out with the T60, for DirecTv, they offered the same lifetime DVR service option they do on current Tivos today.
The difference was, the service was sold by DirecTv, since the Access Card had to come from DirecTv. I purchased a T60, along with $199 lifetime DVR service from Directv.
At some point further down the line, DirecTv, for whatever reason, decided to come out with their own branded equipment, AKA the HR20. They also wanted people to subscribe to HD (all 5 or 6 channels of it) for that extra $10 per month, so they offered anyone with a T60 SD DVR, a free upgrade to an HR20 with HD service. Since they were no longer in bed with Tivo, the curtailed the lifetime DVR option, in favor of another $10 per month (actually less back then), but offered to move your lifetime DVR service to their HR20 box in a grandfathered fashion, as long as you kept the same account number the original T60 and lifetime service was paid for on. They continued to grandfather those few of us that paid the lifetime DVR fee on through each and every upgrade, even applying it to my Genie HR34. It was only when AT&T took over, that they removed the option to reinstate it from the computer. If you already HAD it active when AT&T took over, it is still active, and will be until they choose to quit grandfathering it (which could be anytime, or never). What they cannot do, at least no one at DirecTv knows how to do it, is remove the greyed out option on their computer and actually reinstate it on an account.

Where this might cause an issue, is what if someones main box breaks, and they need to replace it, and make another box a primary receiver? If they have to delete your current account, and rebuilt it for any reason, the option to reenable the lifetime DVR credit will be unavailable.

I have no issue of them removing it, actually. That $199 I paid for lifetime service has already paid off a savings of over $2000 for me (22 yrs at 7 to 10 per month). My issue was with them telling me when I asked, if the current terms of service were still in effect (the one on their website) and specifically, if I turned my old account on per those terms, would I get my DVR fee waived, to which both the CSR and access card team told me YES I WOULD. That played highly into my decision to pass on the new customer offer, and reactive my old account with my owned equipment.

They need to remove that grandfather clause from the Terms of Service, or enable that line item again in their computer, so their employees will know how to respond to the question correctly, when asked. That is all.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The important part in the terms is not what else has changed but that the "lifetime" paragraph is still there. I am surprised that it is still there and worded the way that it is. I expect the customer's lifetime to be over when they leave. All grandfathered discounts lost.

I assume that DIRECTV reactivated your account (same number)? And they didn't start a new account that is being billed the new Advanced Receiver fees?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

That is correct James. Reactivated same 4 digit account number Ive always had, and all the Advanced receiver fees are line items, one for HD, one for DVR, one for Whole Home.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> It is written in section 7 of their current Term of Service agreement. And I have it in the written copy they gave me when signed the paperwork. It was also listed on every bill I paid from 1992 to 2014. Its not a matter of whether I should get it back (access card department already said I should), its a matter of AT&T having modified the computer code preventing ANYONE from reinstating it. The option is now greyed out on their computer. What they FORGOT to do, was remove it from their terms of service, which I expect will happen any time now. In the mean time, I got my $10/mo for 24 months. By then, I expect there will be better options than linear TV to subscribe to.


Hi Dave!

I'm dipping DEEP in the well here and resurrecting an old old thread... but it looks like you're at the 2-year mark. Any update? I'm curious if they're going to extend the credit for another 2 years, or what ...

I ask because I've got the same situation. Original TiVo Lifetime subscription, got migrated to DirecTV DVR Lifetime, and moved to FiOS about 6 years ago. I don't plan to go back to DirecTV anytime soon (simply, the FiOS deal is too good right now) - but want to always keep my options open and know it's a possibility for me.

So -- just out of curiosity - are you re-upping with DirecTV, and have they offered to extend the credits?

For those who aren't familiar with the situation (as davenlr and I are) ... The verbiage is still very much active in the current customer agreement, as it has been since ~2002: _"If you paid a "lifetime service fee," you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service."_

Terms of Service - Legal Policy Center - AT&T

Thanks!

--Dennis


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