# PLEASE HELP!!! D* customer curious about E*.



## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

I am a d* customer and was wondering if there's any former d* subs here, and if so,please describe your expierience with e* as compared to d*. I have some questions too. #1 do you have to still have 2 dishes to get hd? #2 how does hd picture quality compare to d*?how does overall picture quality compare? Is it mpeg-2, or mpeg-4?#3 how does vod compare to d* vod? #4 can you add e sata external hard drive to hddvr's? Is there any apps like d* has ( scoreguide,weather,mediashare,etc....)how is the red zone channel? Do you guys have espnuhd?what are those epix channels?? Please everyone that has come to dish from dtv please give me your feedback.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Wow um. Yeah.

1. You only need one dish, depending on your location it's either a Western Arc 110/119/129 or Eastern Arc 61.5/72/77.

2. The HD picture quality is pretty much the same. Eastern Arc is all MPEG4, Western Arc is mixed.

3. VoD is apparently stellar on the new 922. Nothing to write home about with any other receiver.

4. We use USB external hard drives instead of eSATA. They also don't disable the internal drive when you plug them in.

Red Zone is great. We don't have ESPNU HD yet. EPIX is a group of movie channels run by MGM and Universal (if I recall correctly).


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

joeyo720 said:


> I am a d* customer and was wondering if there's any former d* subs here, and if so,please describe your expierience with e* as compared to d*. I have some questions too. #1 do you have to still have 2 dishes to get hd? #2 how does hd picture quality compare to d*?how does overall picture quality compare? Is it mpeg-2, or mpeg-4?#3 how does vod compare to d* vod? #4 can you add e sata external hard drive to hddvr's? Is there any apps like d* has ( scoreguide,weather,mediashare,etc....)how is the red zone channel? Do you guys have espnuhd?what are those epix channels?? Please everyone that has come to dish from dtv please give me your feedback.


I will only respond to your second question: Picture quality is inferior for obvious reasons.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

RasputinAXP said:


> Wow um. Yeah.
> 
> 1. You only need one dish, depending on your location it's either a Western Arc 110/119/129 or Eastern Arc 61.5/72/77.
> 
> ...


thanks alot axp for replying so quickly. are you a former d* customer? im in s.e. florida near miami , so i guess i would be on eastern arc?? when u say hd quality '' PRETTY MUCH'' the same ,would u say d* is a little clearer? i have heard people say on here that dish is " HD-LITE" compared to d* so you get more vod content with the 922 than other dvr's? i dont have house phone but i have current hddvr hooked up to router via ethernet cable, could i do same with 922? do u have sd espnu?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> I will only respond to your second question: Picture quality is inferior for obvious reasons.


You're lots of laughs:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

Hoosier205 said:


> I will only respond to your second question: Picture quality is inferior for obvious reasons.


can you please explain why you call it hd lite? why is it not a good as d* im in south east florida so i guess i would be on e. arc? ive never had dish so im not very famailliar with their system. have you had both? i appriciate all the info you have. thanks...


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## commodore_dude (Aug 25, 2008)

I had D* before E* and D* does have slightly better picture quality to me. If you're a sports fan (guess so since you asked about ESPNU HD) and your sports of choice are on FSN Florida or Sun Sports, prepare for disappointment. There are no full-time HD RSNs and many games are not available in HD even when D* and cable have them on. I've averaged one Braves game a week so far this season. If I'd known that I never would have signed the contract (I assumed that the presence of a part-time HD channel would be sufficient since D* never screwed me when they were still part-time). Other than that, the boxes are superior in almost every way, and EPIX is nice, so that's something.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

joeyo720 said:


> thanks alot axp for replying so quickly. are you a former d* customer? im in s.e. florida near miami , so i guess i would be on eastern arc?? when u say hd quality '' PRETTY MUCH'' the same ,would u say d* is a little clearer? i have heard people say on here that dish is " HD-LITE" compared to d* so you get more vod content with the 922 than other dvr's? i dont have house phone but i have current hddvr hooked up to router via ethernet cable, could i do same with 922? do u have sd espnu?


Wow. Paragraphs and line breaks, kiddo. Paragraphs and line breaks.

Miami is actually in an awkward situation. It's not an EA city. Miami's locals are on 110 and 119. I think it has something to do with how far south it is.

Picture quality wise they are pretty much identical because they're pretty much identical. I can't definitively say one is visibly better than the other. My buddy across the street had Direct and his HD and SD channels looked the same as mine.

Yes, we have SD ESPNU.

Yes, you get more VOD content with the 922.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

Paul Secic said:


> You're lots of laughs:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


have you had both services? is the picture quality the same? if you would could you answer some of my questions on the first post, ive never had dish so im not very famailliar with their system.im near miami so i guess i would be e. arc?? thanks.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

joeyo720 said:


> can you please explain why you call it hd lite? why is it not a good as d* im in south east florida so i guess i would be on e. arc? ive never had dish so im not very famailliar with their system. have you had both? i appriciate all the info you have. thanks...


Dish Network does not provide any 1080i channels in their full resolution and they haven't in nearly three years. They are taking a resolution of 1920x1080 and reducing it to 1440x1080. Those are the facts. Let's also not forget the problems caused by their compression scheme. If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.

It's your money however...spend it however you wish. If you want superior picture quality, more full-time HD channels (and more coming this month and later in the year as well), and the best sports packages available...stick with DirecTV.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network does not provide any 1080i channels in their full resolution and they haven't in nearly three years. They are taking a resolution of 1920x1080 and reducing it to 1440x1080. Those are the facts. Let's also not forget the problems caused by their compression scheme. If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.
> 
> It's your money however...spend it however you wish. If you want superior picture quality, more full-time HD channels (and more coming this month and later in the year as well), and the best sports packages available...stick with DirecTV.


Pixel-peeper.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network does not provide any 1080i channels in their full resolution and they haven't in nearly three years. They are taking a resolution of 1920x1080 and reducing it to 1440x1080. Those are the facts. Let's also not forget the problems caused by their compression scheme. If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.
> 
> It's your money however...spend it however you wish. If you want superior picture quality, more full-time HD channels (and more coming this month and later in the year as well), and the best sports packages available...stick with DirecTV.


hoosier, i have 720p tv's would i be able to see a diffrence, or only with 1080p sets, and for my current dtv hr-22 should i set native off and check 1080i or 720p. or native on and check everything i can? again tv is 720p, but i can check 1080i ,but not 1080p. thanks..


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I Like Epix. The advantage of the External USB drives is you can plug them in, move content to them and watch from there. They do not replace the internal drive like the eSATA does. I have one external drive that is mostly Christmas shows. Another one is TV shows, Still another is Movies and so on. 

I'm on the EA and having everything in MPEG4 is like getting a larger hard drive in my DVR since they take up less space.

I find the picture very watchable. 32" HDTV

I also like that all my DVRs have been speedy. I can toggle between all channels,Channels I receive, and HD Only with a press of the guide button

I have my guide set to P.I.G. and to show 3 hours and 6 channels at once. In my area I can bring up the guide. type 6300 for what channel to start displaying at and see all my HD Locals for the entire primetime period. Then I hit the 24 jump button and check out the next evening, set any timers, repeat for 8 days.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network does not provide any 1080i channels in their full resolution and they haven't in nearly three years. They are taking a resolution of 1920x1080 and reducing it to 1440x1080. Those are the facts. Let's also not forget the problems caused by their compression scheme. If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.
> 
> It's your money however...spend it however you wish. If you want superior picture quality, more full-time HD channels (and more coming this month and later in the year as well), and the best sports packages available...stick with DirecTV.


Not this old thing again. Picture looks great sitting 7' away from my 720p Pany plasma. With my nose against the screen, I can't see much.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I have a 42" Sony plasma here at work, If you get to close nothing looks great due to the size of the Pixels.

Sports needed and you have patience the go DirecTV
If you want inexpensive go Dishnetwork. 

I get the the Encore movie channels at no extra charge in my top250 package. Add the all the other ones I get in HD such as the HDNet/HDNet movies, MGM, two Epix, Retroplex, indieplex, shorts and I really don't need HBO, SHowtime, Cinemax, Etc. Premiums. However nobody mentions that Dish has more channels in their premiums than DirecTV or that they keep adding new HD Channels more often or sooner then DirecTV.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Funny timing...

I actually had a nice long talk yesterday with a DirecTV rep... and we both concluded that the viewing experience is pretty much the same with either Dish or DirecTV.

There are some unique channels right now to each service... and DirecTV has some sports packages like Sunday Ticket and MLB Extra Innings that Dish is not likely to ever have... but that's about it for the channel choices.

On the hardware... it depends on what your needs are. DirecTV seems to be ahead in the MRV dept right now, but there are other features on a receiver like the Dish 922 that are nice (Sling built-in).

Price can be a wash depending on what you subscribe to... though for me Dish usually ends up being cheaper for the same channels I choose to watch.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

joeyo720 said:


> hoosier, i have 720p tv's would i be able to see a diffrence


Regardless of what the native resolution of your display is...the difference can be obvious. Not everyone is so sensitive to it. I notice a difference in the overall picture quality and then macro-blocking at times as well.



joeyo720 said:


> and for my current dtv hr-22 should i set native off and check 1080i or 720p. or native on and check everything i can? again tv is 720p, but i can check 1080i ,but not 1080p. thanks..


You can either allow your display to scale for you (native on) or you can leave it up to the receiver to do that for you. In your case, with your display...I would set it to "native off" and check 720p only. Your HR22 will handle that just fine.

Are you out of contract or getting close to the end of it. DirecTV will surely throw a few pricing specials your way to keep you. You can pay the same or less than you would with Dish Network and get the superior product from DirecTV. Also, a lot of the Dish Network VOD is only available if you pay $200 for the ViP 922.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

Hoosier205 said:


> Regardless of what the native resolution of your display is...the difference can be obvious. Not everyone is so sensitive to it. I notice a difference in the overall picture quality and then macro-blocking at times as well.
> 
> You can either allow your display to scale for you (native on) or you can leave it up to the receiver to do that for you. In your case, with your display...I would set it to "native off" and check 720p only. Your HR22 will handle that just fine.
> 
> Are you out of contract or getting close to the end of it. DirecTV will surely throw a few pricing specials your way to keep you. You can pay the same or less than you would with Dish Network and get the superior product from DirecTV. Also, a lot of the Dish Network VOD is only availarble if you pay $200 fore the ViP 922.[/tQUOTE] so yotu believe that 720p is a better res then selecting 1080i? the actual resolution of my tv is 1366x768, so i think it can either upscale to 1080i or downscale to 720p. so should i check 720p or 1080 i? as for dtv and dish im not saying im defenitly leaving dtv, but dish has alot of channels some hd, some sd, that i wish we had, one beeing the red zone channel since i have no reason for sticket ,but would like to get a channel everyone else gets for almost nothing.,hbo comedy,epix channels, and some other channels, even with the 30 new hd channels they have more hd channels that intrest me, and the general public. and how come no hbo vod?? its like they dont like hbo or something.anyway, thanks hoosier for ur help.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

hoosier, so you believe that 720p is a better res then selecting 1080i? the actual resolution of my tv is 1366x768, so i think it can either upscale to 1080i or downscale to 720p. so should i check 720p or 1080 i? as for dtv and dish im not saying im defenitly leaving dtv, but dish has alot of channels some hd, some sd, that i wish we had, one beeing the red zone channel since i have no reason for sticket ,but would like to get a channel everyone else gets for almost nothing.,hbo comedy,epix channels, and some other channels, even with the 30 new hd channels they have more hd channels that intrest me, and the general public. and how come no hbo vod?? its like they dont like hbo or something.anyway, thanks hoosier for ur help.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network does not provide any 1080i channels in their full resolution and they haven't in nearly three years. They are taking a resolution of 1920x1080 and reducing it to 1440x1080. Those are the facts. Let's also not forget the problems caused by their compression scheme. If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.
> 
> It's your money however...spend it however you wish. If you want superior picture quality, more full-time HD channels (and more coming this month and later in the year as well), and the best sports packages available...stick with DirecTV.


dude u are a D fanboy
dish's HD picture is just as good as DIRECTV'S
i switched 10 months ago from Directv to Dish and i am glad i did


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

domingos35 said:


> dude u are a D fanboy
> dish's HD picture is just as good as DIRECTV'S
> i switched 10 months ago from Directv to Dish and i am glad i did


domingo , i see ur in s. fla as so am i. n.e. broward. can u tell me why ur glad u switched? can u tell me the pro's cons of dish compared to dtv. are u a sports fan?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

joeyo, it's pretty simple. Do you want more sports in HD or more premiums in HD?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

joeyo720 said:


> hoosier, so you believe that 720p is a better res then selecting 1080i? the actual resolution of my tv is 1366x768, so i think it can either upscale to 1080i or downscale to 720p. so should i check 720p or 1080 i? as for dtv and dish im not saying im defenitly leaving dtv, but dish has alot of channels some hd, some sd, that i wish we had, one beeing the red zone channel since i have no reason for sticket ,but would like to get a channel everyone else gets for almost nothing.,hbo comedy,epix channels, and some other channels, even with the 30 new hd channels they have more hd channels that intrest me, and the general public. and how come no hbo vod?? its like they dont like hbo or something.anyway, thanks hoosier for ur help.


Which option looks better varies from display to display. Both 720p and 1080i are going to be scaled on your display. Try them both and decided if one looks better than the other or not.

Additional premiums are coming. There may be more beyond the 30 announced. I don't have much interest in them due to the fact that they are a bit redundant. I don't feel that I am missing out on anything by not having those other few HBO's and such. The differences between which channel the two providers have are few and far between. The real difference is in pure quality. DirecTV offers more features and superior picture quality. Personally, I'll take quality over quantity. Dish Network sacrifices picture quality to increase capacity...no thank you.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

domingos35 said:


> dude u are a D fanboy
> dish's HD picture is just as good as DIRECTV'S
> i switched 10 months ago from Directv to Dish and i am glad i did


Well, that just isn't possible.

Lower resolutions, more compression, and starved bit rates = Dish Network

Let's stick to helping joeyo720 though. I am offering him the best advice I can. DirecTV is the #1 provider for a reason.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Well, that just isn't possible.
> 
> Lower resolutions, more compression, and starved bit rates = Dish Network
> 
> Let's stick to helping joeyo720 though. I am offering him the best advice I can. DirecTV is the #1 provider for a reason.


and i am offering him my advice


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

domingos35 said:


> and i am offering him my advice


When and where? I have yet to see any advice from you to him. I am the only member in this thread you have responded to. Also, telling someone that it looks just as good isn't helpful when it actually isn't as good. There are basic and factual deficiencies. These are problems which actually exist. I haven't made them up. It just shows that _you _didn't notice the obvious differences and that is perfectly fine. You are happy with the choice you made.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

joeyo720 said:


> domingo , i see ur in s. fla as so am i. n.e. broward. can u tell me why ur glad u switched? can u tell me the pro's cons of dish compared to dtv. are u a sports fan?


yes i am in palm beach county
dish has better receivers,HD picture is just as good
more movie channels on DISH, more HD channels
i am a sports fun,i like football and soccer.DISH has FSC HD(fox soccer channel HD) directv doesn't.i wouldn't let the fact that DIRECTV has more sports influence your decision to go with DIRECTV .
but i also like movies and DISH has EPIX HD ,DIRECTV doesn't


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

domingos35 said:


> yes i am in palm beach county
> dish has better receivers,HD picture is just as good
> more movie channels on DISH, more HD channels
> i am a sports fun,i like football and soccer.DISH has FSC HD(fox soccer channel HD) directv doesn't.i wouldn't let the fact that DIRECTV has more sports influence my decision to go with DIRECTV .
> but i also like movies and DISH has EPIX HD ,DIRECTV doesn't


Let's translate this for him...shall we?



domingos35 said:


> Yes, I am in Palm Beach County. Dish has better receivers. HD picture is just as good. More movie channels on DISH. More HD channels. I am a sports fan, I like football and soccer. Dish has FSC HD(fox soccer channel HD), Directv doesn't. I wouldn't let the fact that DIRECTV has more sports influence my decision to go with DirecTV. I also like movies and DISH has EPIX HD, DirecTV doesn't.


Better receivers? Those are receivers they may not even have for much longer. The best one will cost $200, even for new customers. Yes, Dish has Epix. Epix is yet another channel which refuses to run most films in their OAR. That's a big score for Dish! Oh and by the way...you may missed the the news when Dish Network actually came clean with their HD channel list. Here is a hint: They don't have more.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> Well, that just isn't possible.
> 
> Lower resolutions, more compression, and starved bit rates = Dish Network
> 
> Let's stick to helping joeyo720 though. I am offering him the best advice I can. DirecTV is the #1 provider for a reason.


He asked questions about Dish, and you came in here and thread**** everywhere. Let's stick to the topic at hand, please.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> He asked questions about Dish, and you came in here and thread**** everywhere. Let's stick to the topic at hand, please.


Yes and I answered questions about Dish. Don't blame me if some folks can't handle the facts. My first response was simple, accurate, and to the point:



Hoosier205 said:


> I will only respond to your second question: Picture quality is inferior for obvious reasons.


I offered the OP with information to help him make the best decision for himself. I made him aware of these Dish shortcomings. I was being honest. Nothing wrong with that.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> I offered the OP with information to help him make the best decision for himself. I made him aware of these Dish shortcomings. I was being honest. Nothing wrong with that.


And you proceeded to quote bible and verse from Direct's commercials, which isn't the point.

If he's one of the possibly 2% who care THAT DEEPLY about 1440 vs 1920, then great. Otherwise, if you put him in a room with 2 tvs running Direct and Dish side by side, he's not going to be able to tell the difference, just as I wouldn't be able to.

This thread's been steered WAY off topic.

Edited to add: Also, spreading FUD about Dish losing DVRs, or charging $200 for all receivers is just ridiculous.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> If you love macroblocking...you'll love Dish Network.


I was under the impression that macroblocking was a popularly lamented feature of DIRECTV's ESPN auto racing coverage.

Do a site-wide search for the term "macroblocking" and see which provider has garnered the most threads.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> ...
> 
> Do a site-wide search for the term "macroblocking" and see which provider has garnered the most threads.


This site is very Directv sided in numbers. Not a fair comparison.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> I was being honest. Nothing wrong with that.


You didn't make it clear whether your answers were based on scientific testing or simple math. Opinions, no matter how rational they may seem, must not be equated with (or presented as) fact.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> Edited to add: Also, spreading FUD about Dish losing DVRs, or charging $200 for all receivers is just ridiculous.



You may want to do a bit more research on the Dish/Tivo ordeal. DVR's are at risk.
How much does the receiver (ViP 922) need to get many of the VOD offers cost for new subscribers? The answer is $200.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

harsh said:


> I was under the impression that macroblocking was a popularly lamented feature of DIRECTV's ESPN auto racing coverage.
> 
> Do a site-wide search for the term "macroblocking" and see which provider has garnered the most threads.


The absolute vast majority of posts, threads, and members are located in DirecTV sections of the forum. Regardless, macroblocking is predominantly a Dish Network issue.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> This site is very Directv sided in numbers. Not a fair comparison.


If macroblocking were a DISH Network hallmark as Hoosier205 suggests, it would seem that there would not need to be any DIRECTV threads including the word.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Some people can see the "difference" between HD services without even looking at the picture.

There is a difference between the way DirecTV compresses their channels and the way DISH compresses their channels. Millions of customers accept both compression methods and just watch the HD.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> If macroblocking were a DISH Network hallmark as Hoosier205 suggests, it would seem that there would not need to be any DIRECTV threads including the word.


I got bored so I searched the site for "Epix," which is a hallmark of Dish. There were 34 of 67 topics from Directv threads. Using your logic, or lack there of, I guess after doing "a site-wide search for the term "Epix" [to] see which provider has garnered the most threads," I guess Epix is a hallmark of Directv since there are more threads in Directv's section.  Obviously, this reinforces the idea that your wrong to use a search here since it's a Directv sided site by numbers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Is this thread now about search terms? Perhaps sticking to the topic ... former D* customer's experiences with converting to DISH ... would be a good idea. It seems like there are a lot of comments coming from current D* customers, not former customers.

As far as Epix goes ... I expect a search for BBC America HD would also pull a lot of hits off of the DirecTV side of the site. That HD feed is one of the things DirecTV lacks and it is a commonly requested channel on that side of the site.

BOTH providers have their strong points ... both have their weak points. But we need to stay on track and answer the questions. _Former_ DirecTV customers are encouraged to respond.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

I've been a HD customer with both D* and E* on most feeds you can't tell the difference they both look great.

Currently a Dish eastern arc customer and the HD looks wonderful (1080i on 42" plasma), D* has more HD sports and that is the bottom line.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

Matt9876 said:


> I've been a HD customer with both D* and E* on most feeds you can't tell the difference they both look great.
> 
> Currently a Dish eastern arc customer and the HD looks wonderful (1080i on 42" plasma), D* has more HD sports and that is the bottom line.


thanks, matt this was the type of answer i was looking for someone who has expierienced both. thanks everyone for your input!! you all have been helpfull..


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> joeyo, it's pretty simple. Do you want more sports in HD or more premiums in HD?


Well its not just Sports vs Premiums in Hd either, its all the HD National Channels that Dish vs Direct, in the base and HD packages. Right now Dish has right about 30 Nationals that Direct doesn't have and Direct has 5 National that Dish doesn't have.

As for Picture quality, I have read the Theory about the picture difference, just haven't seen enough quality difference between the two. I have several friends and a Brother in Law with Direct, nobody says anything about my picture. It has been a topic of conversation many a time. Theory is great, the mind can play games with it when you convince yourself you see or don't see something, nobody has been able to see a difference. I see more of a difference when watching a syndicated show on different HD channels, rather than seeing a better Picture on my neighbors Direct HR20 or HR23

Over the years, all the Football and Soccer party's are at my house. We stopped going to a couple of other houses, because of the DVR's, one has Direct and the other has Time Warner, neither has PiP, neither had or has a decent Slo-Mo, and neither Direct or Time Warner offer a way to record just a play, by rewinding, pressing record and then stopping. You get 1-2 minute recording of just want you wanted to save and show somebody, instead of a 1hr long recording or even longer recording.

External Drives by each company are very different and its just not the USB vs eSATA. Direct your drive is a replacement and disables the internal drive when connected to it. With Dish the external drive is an archive drive that works with your internal drive, as you move shows to it. Dish your external drive is also NOT married to a single DVR, you may move the external to any ViP 612/622/722 on your account. If you have mulitple external drives, like I do(one for each family member) that drive can play on any ViP DVR.

I would compare and not just using Directs outdated HD comparison page, the Nationals in a package you want, and then Factor in the Premiums extra Costs, with both, and then the extra costs for each Sports addon.
NFL Redzone in the $6 multi-sports package is great for Football season.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> You may want to do a bit more research on the Dish/Tivo ordeal. DVR's are at risk.
> How much does the receiver (ViP 922) need to get many of the VOD offers cost for new subscribers? The answer is $200.


You may need to do more research on the Dish/Tivo ordeal, and see what DVR's are at Risk. A new Dish HD subscriber wont be getting any of those models, so yes you are just spreading FUD.

New and current Subs can get the ViP922 at $200. 922 is a Premium DVR, brand new DVR, thats a move forward, and not just a fixed up slightly modified HR box. Those fixed up and slightly modifed HR24's the top Direct box, still doesn't offer, Autotune, DLB(sorry replay is still a work around that has to be activated) PiP, and the ablity no matter how configured to record 4 different channels at the sametime, just for starters. List can grow really long. Only feature that Direct has is MRV, which is nice, but missing way to many basic DVR features that even crappy cable box's have now.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

I currently have both services and on 46" Sony LCD when both services offer the program in HD there's no discernible difference in picture quality. However, compared to ota reception, both services are 2nd rate. If you are a sports fan (baseball, etc.) then Directv is a better choice. DISH doesn't give priority to full-time RSNs, so some baseball games slated for the HD feed are joined in progress...2nd inning, 6th inning, etc., when, I'm assuming, another game in HD (which you can't receive) finishes and thus frees up transponder space for the scheduled HD game to be joined in progress. Directv favors full-time RSNs to the detriment of national HD. That should be resolved with the space provided with the new sat, once they finish tinkering with the older sat. But they are about 20+ behind DISH in national HD at the moment. The Epix movie channels along with Indie, Retro and Shorts have been a recent and welcome addition. DISH has the following HD channels that Directv does not: BBC AMERICA, E!, EPIX, G4, HISTORY iNTERNATIONAL, HEADLINE NEWS, INDIE MOVIES, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY, LIFETIME, LIFETIME MOVIE NETWORK, NATGEO WILD, NFL RED ZONE, RETRO MOVIES, SHORTS MOVIES, STYLE, TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES, TRU TV, DO-IT-YOURSELF, EPIX 2. Directv has MLB, ESPNU, SMITHSONIAN in HD...DISH does not.


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## rocket69 (Oct 27, 2008)

Dish and direct compress just like every other provider.. OTA Fios uvers cable ect..

Super compressed HD from worst to best

#5 Cable

#4 Uvers

#3 Direct & Dish ( my eyes cant tell but im sure some computer will)

#2 Fios (sweet PQ but wont top my list)

#1 Live Sat Feed ( Un compressed Hd flying in from space from 45Mbs-75Mbs+/ 540+ GB space for a 2Hr program No others can touch it...Yet fios?


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## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

joeyo720 said:


> I am a d* customer and was wondering if there's any former d* subs here, and if so,please describe your expierience with e* as compared to d*.


I been using small satellite since Directv started it all in the mid 90's. I have had both services several different times. Here are the facts IMO.

I had Directv up until 5 months ago I decided to switch (again) because I wanted more HD channels. Plain and simple, Dish has more HD channels. For a whole month I had both services. I compared picture quality A/B MANY times. On a 46 inch 1080p Samsumg tv I could NOT see any difference between quailty DISH VS Directv. Dish may have HD lite, it doesn't matter since you can NOT see a difference.

Dish's DVR's are better with many more HD channels. The only advantage Direct has is sports channels.

L.S.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Best of luck to anyone who prefers quantity over quality. :lol:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess Epix is a hallmark of Directv since there are more threads in Directv's section.


You've arrived at the wrong conclusion given the data. The DIRECTV programming threads are largely about what channels they aren't offering. The number of times that a channel is mentioned is related to the "distress" that some subscribers feel because their desires aren't being met.

The protracted absence of Versus is a solid competitor in the race for the most mentions related to channels. The Travel Channel HD and ESPNU HD are strong competitors for their baffling omission from DIRECTV carriage for so long.

On the DISH Network side, you'll find an inordinate number of mentions of MLBEI.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Best of luck to anyone who prefers quantity over quality. :lol:


Best of luck stomaching the SD version of a "gotta have it" HD channel on DIRECTV.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I have both. On a Pioneer 60" Kuro 141FD picture quality is similar in most cases. Some channels on Directv are better and some are better on Dish.

Overall I much prefer Dish because their receivers are so much faster and come with features I want (eg ATSC tuners, IR and UHF simultaneously, I can own if I choose, etc).

I haven't tried an HR24, but every other HR I have tried is dog slow. I don't want to be frustrated using the guide and changing channels so Dish gets my vote.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

phrelin said:


> Not this old thing again. Picture looks great sitting 7' away from my 720p Pany plasma. With my nose against the screen, I can't see much.


I have a 102" projection set up (720P) that I view from about 12' from the screen. The HD quality is comparable to what I got from my old cable company. I can't do an exact A/B comparison, but it looks pretty much the same as D* on a friends similar projection system.

Macro blocking, where visible, is likely coming from the source, not Dish. For example, our local PBS HD on cable had lots of macro blocking - but that was because they were packing on so many sub channels. Nothing I see on Dish comes close to that, and most channels have no obvious macro blocking.


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## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

harsh said:


> Best of luck stomaching the SD version of a "gotta have it" HD channel on DIRECTV.


Another thing I have noticed is the SD picture quality on DISH is vastly superior to Directv. Many of the Dish SD channels look quite good.

L.S.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

peano said:


> I have both. On a Pioneer 60" Kuro 141FD picture quality is similar in most cases. Some channels on Directv are better and some are better on Dish.
> 
> Overall I much prefer Dish because their receivers are so much faster and come with features I want (eg ATSC tuners, IR and UHF simultaneously, I can own if I choose, etc).
> 
> I haven't tried an HR24, but every other HR I have tried is dog slow. I don't want to be frustrated using the guide and changing channels so Dish gets my vote.


Most Reviews of the HR24 show its the fastest HR, but still not upto par of a ViP 722.
We can make a very long list of missing DVR features and how slow and clumsy the HR Guide is in comparison. Still boils down to the National HD in the package's, and what if any Premium and or Sports channels the OP wants.


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## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Best of luck to anyone who prefers quantity over quality. :lol:


I would much prefer to watch a great movie in SD over a crummy movie in HD.

For all Practical purposes, in "real world viewing" HD quality is even on both Dish and Directv.

Picking one over the other because of HD Picture quality is not smart.

Content. yes it is all about content. There is only one reason IMO to go with Directv at this time - Sports content. Direct has more.

Dish has more of EVERYTHING else....

L.S.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Lazy Senior said:


> For all Practical purposes, in "real world viewing" HD quality is even on both Dish and Directv.
> L.S.


Nice post L.S.
You just have to realize some don't believe in "Real World" viewing. They wrap themselves up in a math equation, that don't really transfer to real world viewing, but it sounds real good.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Lazy Senior said:


> I would much prefer to watch a great movie in SD over a crummy movie in HD.
> 
> For all Practical purposes, in "real world viewing" HD quality is even on both Dish and Directv.
> 
> ...


More? Depends on your version of the channel count. Regardless of whether they have less or more, they offer inferior picture quality. More isn't better when what you are receiving is of lower quality than necessary. Dish Network could choose to offer 1080i channels in their actual resolution (or even just a single one for goodness sake). Dish Network could choose to add capacity for channels, before actually adding channels more often than they do. Dish Network could choose to not over-compress the channels they do have. Dish Network could choose to offer picture quality equal to that of DirecTV...but why would they? Honestly, why would they when so many are more than happy to pay for lower quality?

To each his own. I've chosen the proven winner, the superior provider, the one which actually values quality while also increasing capacity. The rest of you can remain here to defend your choices and your less than stellar HD-Lite version of HD, if you wish. I believe that Joey has all the information he needs. It's too bad DirecTV customers had to come over here and give him the honest facts because current Dish customers would never bother to mention these shortcomings. Dish Network will continue to be the 2nd tier provider it has always been. Read my sig. Don't pick battles you cannot win...and you cannot, I promise.

BTW...congratulations on those DVR's...or should I be congratulating TiVO? Oh those pesky patents...


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

I've been considering switching from D* to Dish as well. I've been with DirecTV for over a decade and was with Dish before that. I'm thinking about moving because of the selection of HD channels on DISH (BBCA-HD for one.. i watch lots of shows on that channel) and to hopefully save a couple of bucks per month.

Are all regional sports HD-part time? I'm only really concerned about my regional (SF Bay Area) so I can watch the Giants in HD. Having NFL RedZone would be awesome though.. I miss having that similar station on DirecTV when I had Sunday Ticket. It was nearly the only reason I had sunday ticket


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> To each his own. I've chosen the proven winner, the superior provider, the one which actually values quality while also increasing capacity.


So, how long did you have DISH Network and when did you cancel? This thread is intended to elicit responses from those making the opposite move but if you insist on participating it seems only fair to give full disclosure as to your real life experience.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

redfiver said:


> ...
> Are all regional sports HD-part time? I'm only really concerned about my regional (SF Bay Area) so I can watch the Giants in HD....


According to Mr. Long's excellent list, yes, all RSNs are part time HD.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

last nights HD version of the Giants game was joined in progress about, about the 6th inning. I guess that's when transponder space became available. It was "scheduled" for the full game, but jip.


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

anyone have any anecdotal evidence on what percent of Giants games are in HD on Dish? I know that might be hard to quantify, but a general guess is great.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> So, how long did you have DISH Network and when did you cancel? This thread is intended to elicit responses from those making the opposite move but if you insist on participating it seems only fair to give full disclosure as to your real life experience.


Two years. I canceled in June of 2008. My folks were customers for about six years...until they purchased their first HD display and saw just what Dish Network's HD-Lite consists of. The same goes for other family members and friends. What can I say? They all prefer quality.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> More? Depends on your version of the channel count. Regardless of whether they have less or more, they offer inferior picture quality. More isn't better when what you are receiving is of lower quality than necessary. Dish Network could choose to offer 1080i channels in their actual resolution (or even just a single one for goodness sake). Dish Network could choose to add capacity for channels, before actually adding channels more often than they do. Dish Network could choose to not over-compress the channels they do have. Dish Network could choose to offer picture quality equal to that of DirecTV...but why would they? Honestly, why would they when so many are more than happy to pay for lower quality?
> 
> To each his own. I've chosen the proven winner, the superior provider, the one which actually values quality while also increasing capacity. The rest of you can remain here to defend your choices and your less than stellar HD-Lite version of HD, if you wish. I believe that Joey has all the information he needs. It's too bad DirecTV customers had to come over here and give him the honest facts because current Dish customers would never bother to mention these shortcomings. Dish Network will continue to be the 2nd tier provider it has always been. Read my sig. Don't pick battles you cannot win...and you cannot, I promise.
> 
> BTW...congratulations on those DVR's...or should I be congratulating TiVO? Oh those pesky patents...


How is Direct a Proven Winner? Just because they Direct partnered with Tivo early to help them out, and keep up a huge marketing campaign?

To bad you don't read the posts, in this thread or in many other threads on both the Dish and Direct side of the house, the vast majority of users that have had or have both, or that can see both on a regular basis, post and say they can't see much of a difference. So harp all you want over Dish's compression levels vs Direct, until Direct can prove to people or show to people that there is really a difference, its all just babble to make the geeks happy, with no Real World viewing difference. "If" Direct's picture quality was really better you would see on of those, Fake To tell the Truth ad's about it, to run against the Dish ad's asking people to take a look for themselves. Since you don't see on of those, not even DIRECT wants to point out that there compression level is better than Dish's in the Real World, as it isn't.

You sink to the FUD level when you go to the TIVO patent point, when comparing new HD equipment as you should fully be aware, that the patent lawsuit has nothing to do with the ViP DVR's. Pretty much blow any and all of your credibilty when you stoop to FUD.

So you stay with Direct, be proud that Direct has a math formula that fits your compression needs, but has no real world effect. Be happy with Fewer National HD channels, be happy with spending Hunderds of $$$ more for each of those sports packages. Be happy with inferior HD DVR's with workaround solutions, horrible guide that can't even give you the channels you get in a simple fashion, and missing all sorts DVR functions. That is perfect for you.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

redfiver said:


> anyone have any anecdotal evidence on what percent of Giants games are in HD on Dish? I know that might be hard to quantify, but a general guess is great.


Thats a good question. Maybe somebody like Phrelin can help, or maybe even a new thread, on the subject?. Only time I carry the Multi-sports package, and that would be the only time I would see Bay are RSN's is during college football season. The Rolling RSN space has never been a problem during college football, even when a game runs long.


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## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Regardless of whether they have less or more, they offer inferior picture quality.


This simply is NOT true. Within the last few months I had a Directv HR-23 and a Dish 722 side by side, both connected via HDMI to a 46 inch Samsung 120hz LCD. After a month of A/B switching and comparing I could NOT tell you at any given moment which service I was watching. On HD I could not tell the difference between Direct or Dish. Real world watching there is NO difference.

I realize some here evangelize their experience with Directv or Dish. I am not one of them. It is ONLY TV to me not a religion. In 15 years I have had both services at many different times. There are many differences between them but right now there is NO difference in HD picture quality that you can actually see on a television............

Lazy S.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Well, I suppose if you have a 108" TV, and you stand a couple feet away you might be able to see the difference. But then if you have that much money why would you watch anything that isn't 1080p, meaning Blu-ray - no cable, satellite or OTA?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> How is Direct a Proven Winner? Just because they Direct partnered with Tivo early to help them out, and keep up a huge marketing campaign?


Yikes...this one is so easy I almost feel bad. Customers, awards, finances, business associations...you name it. Dish Network sits comfortably in second place for all eternity. Heck, Dish Network recently tried to give their service away for free and couldn't even manage to do that.



GrumpyBear said:


> To bad you don't read the posts, in this thread or in many other threads on both the Dish and Direct side of the house, the vast majority of users that have had or have both, or that can see both on a regular basis, post and say they can't see much of a difference. So harp all you want over Dish's compression levels vs Direct, until Direct can prove to people or show to people that there is really a difference, its all just babble to make the geeks happy, with no Real World viewing difference. "If" Direct's picture quality was really better you would see on of those, Fake To tell the Truth ad's about it, to run against the Dish ad's asking people to take a look for themselves. Since you don't see on of those, not even DIRECT wants to point out that there compression level is better than Dish's in the Real World, as it isn't.


The facts speak for themselves. Dish Network delivers a crippled version of HD. If some folks have physical, psychological, or technological reasons for not seeing the difference...so be it. The difference is real and tangible. It is there for anyone to see. It is not at all surprising that many defend a decision that have been wrong, rather than owning up to it.



GrumpyBear said:


> You sink to the FUD level when you go to the TIVO patent point, when comparing new HD equipment as you should fully be aware, that the patent lawsuit has nothing to do with the ViP DVR's. Pretty much blow any and all of your credibilty when you stoop to FUD.


 I wasn't aware that another decision had been rendered since last month. You may want to do your own homework, rather than taking what you've been fed here. Thus far, the changes made have not been found to be sufficient.



GrumpyBear said:


> So you stay with Direct, be proud that Direct has a math formula that fits your compression needs, but has no real world effect. Be happy with Fewer National HD channels, be happy with spending Hunderds of $$$ more for each of those sports packages. Be happy with inferior HD DVR's with workaround solutions, horrible guide that can't even give you the channels you get in a simple fashion, and missing all sorts DVR functions. That is perfect for you.


Oh it has a real world effect...you just haven't noticed it. Fewer national HD channels? We have more coming on the 30th and even more coming throughout the year. The pool of available HD is shrinking a bit more day by day. Soon enough, we will all have the same channels...just with different levels of picture quality. Yes, I am very happy with having the *ability *to pay for sports packages you don't even have access to. By the way, my guide shows me exactly which channels I get and in a very simple fashion. Missing all sorts of DVR functions? That's funny, I cannot think of a single one I don't have that I would even need or want.


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

I have one other question about switching to Dish from DirecTV.

Is there any option on Dish to have HD only stations? To not even get SD channels? I don't think this is possible looking at the DISH site and from posts on here, but just wanted to make sure. I'd be all over a HD only package as I only have HD tvs in the house now.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Lazy Senior said:


> This simply is NOT true. Within the last few months I had a Directv HR-23 and a Dish 722 side by side, both connected via HDMI to a 46 inch Samsung 120hz LCD. After a month of A/B switching and comparing I could NOT tell you at any given moment which service I was watching. On HD I could not tell the difference between Direct or Dish. Real world watching there is NO difference.
> 
> I realize some here evangelize their experience with Directv or Dish. I am not one of them. It is ONLY TV to me not a religion. In 15 years I have had both services at many different times. There are many differences between them but right now there is NO difference in HD picture quality that you can actually see on a television............
> 
> Lazy S.


No, it is true. Facts are facts. Just because *you *don't notice a difference, doesn't mean there isn't one.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

redfiver said:


> I have one other question about switching to Dish from DirecTV.
> 
> Is there any option on Dish to have HD only stations? To not even get SD channels? I don't think this is possible looking at the DISH site and from posts on here, but just wanted to make sure. I'd be all over a HD only package as I only have HD tvs in the house now.


Sort of. Dish America exists, but you get shorted on some things because of archaic package requirements and you'll still get whatever non-HD small locals in SD.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Who has done a bitrate comparison between Directv and Dish lately? If Dish is so horribly compressed, I guess they have better Broadcom chips in their receivers to make up the difference. Certainly they have better processors and memory than the HRs so that makes sense.

Believe me, I can tell the difference in HD PQ. Take a look at Bell TV if you want to see truly over-compressed crap. But I digress.

As I said before, on my Pioneer Elite 60" it is pretty easy to see differences in PQ. I have excellent visual acuity and the differences are subtle or non-existant between Dish and Directv.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> redfiver said:
> 
> 
> > I have one other question about switching to Dish from DirecTV.
> ...


Apparently you can still get the Dish America packages, but right now I can't find any info on them on the Dish web site as the site is being revised. They really aren't that appealing because of the limited channels available, but they are cheap. One on line dealer shows them this morning here. I don't know anything about the dealer.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

has anyone noticed the freezing picture glitches the last week or so on FSN. I'd guess its happening about 4-5 times an hour. Gee, Directv couldn't have macro-blocking...I just know that would never happen 

I'm speculating that it has to do with putting everything on the new sat, but...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Yikes...this one is so easy I almost feel bad. Customers, awards, finances, business associations...you name it. Dish Network sits comfortably in second place for all eternity. Heck, Dish Network recently tried to give their service away for free and couldn't even manage to do that.
> 
> The facts speak for themselves. Dish Network delivers a crippled version of HD. If some folks have physical, psychological, or technological reasons for not seeing the difference...so be it. The difference is real and tangible. It is there for anyone to see. It is not at all surprising that many defend a decision that have been wrong, rather than owning up to it.
> 
> ...


If Dish's Signal was so crippled Direct would be all over it, Direct isn't.

Awards? Name a Direct DVR(not a TiVo)that has ever won an award other than being the slowest? Only hardware I have seen an award for Direct is the AM21, that Direct cripples by not allowing you to record both OTA signals.

Direct had to cancel one of its own to tell the truth adds, as the company they used as a reference company gave Dish the #1 rating over Direct.

Please show ANY evidence that the ViP line of DVR's has anything to do with the Tivo Lawsuit. Older Mpeg2 and most SD DVR's yes, but please show some proof that the current HD ViP series are involved.

Both have really good partners, both have multiple awards for lots of things, Direct just miss's the boat on Hardware. Granted Direct see's the problem with thier DVR's and is trying to repartner up with sinking TiVo, to make sure they have a DVR model that can compete.

Please stay with Direct. Not trying to convience you to change. 
You fail to point out all the missing hardware and missing feature sets in the Direct DVR's. Granted you may not want them, lots of others do, all you have to do is read the long HR DVR wish list. You sound like one of those Direct users, Direct doesn't have it or Direct took it away so we don't need it, and then when Direct comes out with a work around praise the work around as being great. Going over the HR Wish list you will find lots of the features,are already on ViP DVR's.

You fail to prove in anyway shape or form for those that view Direct and Dish at the sametime there is a quality difference. Yes you believe, and you say you can see, thats great, most can't and in threads on both sides users coming from one to the other, the vast majority are in agreement, the PQ is the same. Bigger differences come from different HD channels.

Finances, both have been up and down, both swing the numbers anyway they can. Both are doing well, not great, but well, and both have the same 2 star rating for being a buying stock. So sorry no big difference.

The "ablility" to pay for the extra sports is great, hats off to Direct for that. Direct people always, like you always point out the extra sports, but always leave off, it comes with a PRICE TAG $$$$.
Direct is NOT adding 30 new National HD channels. 30 new HD channels, but subtract the 8 PPV/VOD channels, and the RSN's and Direct is adding fewer than 20 National HD channels


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Two years. I canceled in June of 2008. My folks were customers for about six years...until they purchased their first HD display and saw just what Dish Network's HD-Lite consists of. The same goes for other family members and friends. What can I say? They all prefer quality.


So your first hand experience with DISH is at least two years old. That adds perspective.


Hoosier205 said:


> No, it is true. Facts are facts. Just because *you *don't notice a difference, doesn't mean there isn't one.


As stated, some notice a difference without looking. 



Hoosier205 said:


> Yikes...this one is so easy I almost feel bad. Customers, awards, finances, business associations...you name it. Dish Network sits comfortably in second place for all eternity.


I know you didn't miss the recent customer service award DISH won over DirecTV. Perhaps you blocked it out? DISH is also the fastest growing provider. And they are the FIRST and ONLY provider to provide local-into-local service into every television market. Shall I go on?



> GrumpyBear said:
> 
> 
> > You sink to the FUD level when you go to the TIVO patent point, when comparing new HD equipment as you should fully be aware, that the patent lawsuit has nothing to do with the ViP DVR's. Pretty much blow any and all of your credibilty when you stoop to FUD.
> ...


Perhaps you can show where any ViP model has any legal action pending _against_ it? As those who actually know and follow the case know, the case is against eight named receiver models. Some of them have been discontinued over the course of the case. Nothing has been done in court that would affect the ViP models.



> [Speaking about HD] We have more coming on the 30th and even more coming throughout the year.


The "more coming" will still be 20 real channels shy of what DISH provides today. DirecTV capacity beyond the "30" currently being added is limited. 20 more later this year will take half of their remaining capacity. 3D will take some of that remaining capacity. When is DirecTV's next satellite launch?

BTW: DISH has more HD coming too.



> Missing all sorts of DVR functions? That's funny, I cannot think of a single one I don't have that I would even need or want.


I won't hold your lack of knowledge about DISH products against you.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Apparently you can still get the Dish America packages, but right now I can't find any info on them on the Dish web site as the site is being revised. They really aren't that appealing because of the limited channels available, but they are cheap. One on line dealer shows them this morning here. I don't know anything about the dealer.


I noticed that link you posted in the other thread. Its an interesting list, but at the cost of Gold level, you still seem to be missing to many of the HD Nationals you can get in 250 HD package, add $10 for Platinum, and you get a bigger bang per $. Maybe easier for Redfiver to know that with just to press's of the guide button, you would have the guide set to All HD channels he subscribed to. No special list needed, and he wouldn't have to see any of the SD channels.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

You guys sound like kids arguing who's Dad can beat up other Dads. :lol: 

Advice to those trying to decide which sat company you want:
- Decide what channels you must have.
- Decide what DVR features you must have.
- Do research.
- Make a choice.
- Enjoy TV.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> You guys sound like kids arguing who's Dad can beat up other Dads. :lol:
> 
> Advice to those trying to decide which sat company you want:
> - Decide what channels you must have.
> ...


One of the soundest advice posts of all time.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> You guys sound like kids arguing who's Dad can beat up other Dads. :lol:
> 
> Advice to those trying to decide which sat company you want:
> - Decide what channels you must have.
> ...


Agreed. Both companies have their problems. Both have successes.
Pick one (or both)!


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

phrelin said:


> Well, I suppose if you have a 108" TV, and you stand a couple feet away you might be able to see the difference. But then if you have that much money why would you watch anything that isn't 1080p, meaning Blu-ray - no cable, satellite or OTA?


My 102" 720p display looks fabulous - better then what I used to see in movie theaters. I say "used to see" because since building this system I have no reason to go to a theater anymore.

With 720p the rule is to sit 1.5 times the screen width from the screen. Closer and you can start to make out the pixels, further back and you are wasting your big screen experience. If you have a 1080p display you can get closer without seeing the pixels, but if you maintain the same distance you will have a hard time telling the difference between 1080 and 720.

Comparing Blu-Ray with Dish on this system I can say that B-R does look a bit better, but that isn't saying Dish looks bad. Both are excellent, but B-R is a bit more excellent. Also B-R has much better sound.

As to cost, a good projector is much less expensive than a large flat panel display and can give you a picture size you could never achieve with a big TV. Anyone who has a spare room that they can control the light in and who cares about having a great home theater experience should consider the projection route.

I ended up building a room in some unused space in my basement. The investment was well worth it. I did this a couple of years ago before 1080p projectors were widely available.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Hoosier205 said:


> No, it is true. Facts are facts. Just because *you *don't notice a difference, doesn't mean there isn't one.


This has to be the most useless discussion ever.. Get a life. for "most" people, there is no difference to jump up and down about as you do. Its ridiculous.

There is no such thing as perfect picture. Any program depending on its original source can have a different quality. Live Sports can look sharper, crisper than movies or many produced TV shows. Any TV, depending on the technology, (LCD, LED, DLP, Plasma, etc) can make a picture from different sources look better or worse.

Its all up to the eye of the beholder and for most people, with the exception of you, no one viewing Dish or Direct's HD, is going to go, wow, Direct looks so much better, not going to happen for the uninitiated to your pointless argument.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

redfiver said:


> i've been considering switching from d* to dish as well. I've been with directv for over a decade and was with dish before that. I'm thinking about moving because of the selection of hd channels on dish (bbca-hd for one.. I watch lots of shows on that channel) and to hopefully save a couple of bucks per month.
> 
> Are all regional sports hd-part time? I'm only really concerned about my regional (sf bay area) so i can watch the giants in hd. Having nfl redzone would be awesome though.. I miss having that similar station on directv when i had sunday ticket. It was nearly the only reason i had sunday ticket


this is funny. I started a thread on dtv side under programming called stand alone red zone channel. The topic was that dtv should offer nflrdzonehd or a stand alone red zone for a price to keep dtv customers happy ,and not switching because the only way they offer it is if u get sunday ticket,and here we are people talking about switching because of it (myself included) . The majority was for it...


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

I know that i can only view professional sports games on my rsn's and locals, but can someone tell me how many college game channels are viewable with sports pack on dish? My locals come from miami,fl. What are my rsn's


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

joeyo720 said:


> I know that i can only view professional sports games on my rsn's and locals, but can someone tell me how many college game channels are viewable with sports pack on dish? My locals come from miami,fl. What are my rsn's


Are you talking about picking up the Multi-sports package? If so you get all the HD carried games, and you get all the RSN's Dish carries. You will find out that even with all the RSN's not all the games are in televised HD, no matter who the carrier is. Whats nice about College, no Blackouts, and in the 4 yrs or so that I have carried the Multi-Sports package, the games are carried from beginning to end in HD, unlike Pro Sports were Dish can join in late, granted the HD feeds stops almost as soon as the game ends so don't count on catching the post game show in HD. 
For $7 you get all the RSN's and NFL Redzone too. Redzone is really cool and using Redzone and PiP on a game you want to follow, locally is fantastic. You may want to buy a 2nd remote, as you will be using the pause and swap to jump between the 2 live feeds in your PiP.


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## joeyo720 (May 22, 2010)

GrumpyBear said:


> Are you talking about picking up the Multi-sports package? If so you get all the HD carried games, and you get all the RSN's Dish carries. You will find out that even with all the RSN's not all the games are in televised HD, no matter who the carrier is. Whats nice about College, no Blackouts, and in the 4 yrs or so that I have carried the Multi-Sports package, the games are carried from beginning to end in HD, unlike Pro Sports were Dish can join in late, granted the HD feeds stops almost as soon as the game ends so don't count on catching the post game show in HD.
> For $7 you get all the RSN's and NFL Redzone too. Redzone is really cool and using Redzone and PiP on a game you want to follow, locally is fantastic. You may want to buy a 2nd remote, as you will be using the pause and swap to jump between the 2 live feeds in your PiP.


yeah , thats what i love about college, you can see almost every game without having to pay for a special subs besides a multi sports pack.


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## vobguy (Jun 10, 2009)

redfiver said:


> I've been considering switching from D* to Dish as well. I've been with DirecTV for over a decade and was with Dish before that. I'm thinking about moving because of the selection of HD channels on DISH (BBCA-HD for one.. i watch lots of shows on that channel) and to hopefully save a couple of bucks per month.


Sounds like what I am considering as well. Especially to get BBCA-HD, now that it seems apparent that DirecTV doesn't ever plan to carry it in HD any time soon. I used to watch Doctor Who in HD on Sci Fi , watching it in SD now because it is on BBCA-HD is just painful. Would have enjoyed Robin Hood in HD as well. The money saved will be icing on the cake. Of course I need to wait awhile until I am no longer under contract with D*


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I had both services up to last September and finally turned off the D* subscriptions and returned the equipment. So my experience is a bit old, but not horribly. Here is my take on the differences.

Picture Quality - Yes, there is a viewable difference between the HD on both, but it is so slight and neither is better, just different. In SD, Dish wins hands down. SD quality is much better on Dish across the board.

HDDVRs - I had both the HR20 and HR21 with D*. Both sluggish as hell, especially after the 'updates'. The HR24 reportedly is as fast or nearly so as the Vips from E*. Assuming that is so, both have their good and bad points, the bad being not a big deal to me.

MRV on D* from reading looks to be well done, and I liked some of the way the HR worked over the Vip722k that I have now, but the differences aren't earth shattering in how they do things.

If you switch, make sure to get one 722k in the mix. It is superb in operation and features. Like learning remote, and you can save your timers in the remote which means if one craps out, you can install the replacement and load the timers in from the remote.

And the External disk support on E* is just a better way. I can move that to another HDDVR and keep the stuff on it, and in the case of a replacement, hook it up and anything saved on it is there. It is an addition to the internal hard drive.

On the 722k, if you get the 2-tuner OTA module, you can record 2 SAT channels and 2 OTA channels at the same time, while watching a 5th recorded event.

Channels - 

E* has more national HD right now, and will still have after D* adds the ones they are taking about. More movies in HD on the premiums too.

D* has more optional sports in HD

Hope this helps you.


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## labmansid (Nov 19, 2005)

Great thread, as I am seriously thinking of making the switch to E* as well. I watch some sports, but mostly just local/regional teams and have never subscribed to NFLST or the MLB pack, and don't ever foresee doing so. Our viewing tastes are mostly geared towards crafts/cooking and crime shows for the wife (I tend to sleep with one eye open  ), and nature/science shows for me, as well as a mix of network TV and HBO/Showtime. 
I don't really have a problem with D* programming choices or overall picture quality. My main reason for considering this move is their buggy receivers. I have one HD DVR and one HD receiver that won't even boot up anymore, they just stay in startup cycle. The one HD DVR that does still work, if I don't manually restart it regularly the locals from OTA start having choppy video to the point of becoming unwatchable. Also, the DVR has audio dropouts at random intervals on many channels that use Dolby Digital. I understand the new HR24 line does not fix that problem and, in fact, adds it's own variety of audio problems. 
I was considering having D* come out and replace virtually all my receivers. But considering that would likely not fix the audio issues anyway, and possibly restart a 2 year recommit, I am leaning more and more towards the switch to E*, since I think I am outside of any commitment I had with D* since my last equipment upgrade.
After perusing the DBS forums here I was thinking of possibly going for the new 922 DVR (with the OTA module) for the projector in the living room, and the 722 DVR for the bedroom, and maybe an HD or SD receiver for a third tv we sometimes use. What would the E* experts here recommend?
TIA


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

labmansid said:


> After perusing the DBS forums here I was thinking of possibly going for the new 922 DVR (with the OTA module) for the projector in the living room, and the 722 DVR for the bedroom, and maybe an HD or SD receiver for a third tv we sometimes use. What would the E* experts here recommend?
> TIA


I'd get the 922 for the Projector (FYI, $200 for new customers) and the 722K for the bedroom and make the third room TV2 off the 722K ($100 for the second HDDVR) honestly.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I would go with the 722k for the projector and third TV and a 211k with the DVR option for the bedroom. Saves $10 per month in receiver fees.


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## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

I've had both. I definitely prefer DISH. I've found them a much easier company to deal with (far superior customer service) and they've worked out to be a lot cheaper. I didn't have an HD set back in the days when I was a DirecTIVO man, but the SD picture quality was ridiculously poor.

Sadly, I will probably go back to D* soon. Its not a switch I have any interest in making, to be honest. However, E* still doesn't have MSG-HD, which means that I am stuck watching a lot of SD hockey. And, if I am not going to get hockey in HD, its hardly worth having TV to being with.


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## habsfan66 (Mar 25, 2010)

E91 said:


> I've had both. I definitely prefer DISH. I've found them a much easier company to deal with (far superior customer service) and they've worked out to be a lot cheaper. I didn't have an HD set back in the days when I was a DirecTIVO man, but the SD picture quality was ridiculously poor.
> 
> Sadly, I will probably go back to D* soon. Its not a switch I have any interest in making, to be honest. However, E* still doesn't have MSG-HD, which means that I am stuck watching a lot of SD hockey. And, if I am not going to get hockey in HD, its hardly worth having TV to being with.


Amen brother, anybody heard if E* will be shutout again this year for MSG-HD? It's a switch I'd make in a second if I could get D*'s signal.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

The MSG-HD thing is back in court along with the rest of the withholding parties/networks (CSN Philly, etc)


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

RasputinAXP said:


> The MSG-HD thing is back in court along with the rest of the withholding parties/networks (CSN Philly, etc)


So, to answer habs and E91, probably not this year.


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## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

I called DISH a few weeks ago about this very issue. The CSR swore up and down that they would have MSG-HD this season, for what little that is worth.

Right now, I've got a D* install setup. However, the install is scheduled in early September. So, I am hoping against hope that something changes in the next few weeks. Otherwise, I'll just have to suck it up and go back to D*.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> So, to answer habs and E91, probably not this year.


Likely not. I can hope, though. Rangers stand a better chance already this season.


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