# Considering HR34 - a little confused



## timoth (Feb 27, 2006)

SO Santa brought is a nice 65" display for Xmas (yay Santa!). NOW I have to really get my butt in gear and finish the new "Home Theater" space!

I have been considering a HR34 since the community has started talking about it.

Here is my question for someone that is hopefully in the same boat - (I have search a bit and just have not found the info I am looking for)

I have several OTA station in my area that do not show up on the local Sat package, that I would like to still receive.

I am currently setup with MVR with the following receivers -


DirecTV HR20-700 HD DVR
DirecTV HR20-100 HD DVR
DirecTV HR23-600

Are these receivers compatible with the HR34?

The HR34 does not have an OTA tuner ... is there a solution for this (that's not an additional input source)?

OR

Do I try to stay with the line of receivers I have and just have the HR34 as a "server type" unit off in the corner of the structured media closet.

What am I forgetting?

Thanks in advance for all your comments-


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

It works fine with the DVRs you have. For OTA, you'd need an AM21. Question is, is your MRV supported (DECA boxes) or Ethernet? If Ethernet, do you have SWM (one coax cable going to one tuner, or two)? 

The HR34requires SWM, and even if you have it, you likely max out at 8 tuners. You'd need to probably swap out our SWM-LNB and get a SWM16.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The same am21 that works to give OTA to other receivers works great with hr34.


----------



## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

If you keep more than one of your existing receivers alongside the HR34 you'll have more than 8 tuners and so you'll have to switch your dish back to a non-SWM ODU (pickup) and use a SWM-16. Then you have two output lines from the SWM-16 (it's essentially two SWM-8s in parallel except it also merges DeCA for the two), then you need no more than 8 tuners on either leg.

You'll need an AM21/AM21N to get OTA reception. I am using one right now with my HR34, it works well. Note that diplexed OTA isn't really supported anymore, because it conflicts with DeCA, frequency-wise. So I switched to non-diplexed OTA.

You will need at least one band block filter (thanks to Stuart for the info). The HR20's will not tolerate DeCA slamming into them through the SAT port from the HR34. The right thing to do would be to put band block filters on the SAT/SWM input of each of the HR20s and the HR23. The easier/cheaper thing to do would be to just put a band block filter on the HR34 input, that will filter any DeCA going out, so it doesn't bother any of the other devices. The reason this isn't the "right" thing to do is because if you want to use DeCA later between two of your receivers, you'd need to order some new band block filters and revert to the "right" setup with the appropriate band block filters removed (on new receivers).

Another alternative version of the "wrong" way to do it that would work would actually be to diplex OTA onto the line to the HR34. The diplexers will block the outing DeCA signals from the HR34 so they don't reach the other devices. This is probably the cheapest of all, assuming you're currently using diplexed OTA. However, keeping OTA working on both legs of the SWM-16 output with diplexing will be a moderate pain. I'm sure you hook it up exactly like you might think you would, I'm just not sure it won't have any side effects.


----------



## timoth (Feb 27, 2006)

INFRASTRUCTURE! Thanks for pointing that all out - 

I think I am set in regards to that - I have the following "stuff"

SWM16 - and 2 of the 8 way swm8's - DECA's

How does the AM21 hookup? (I'm not clear on that)

I think I need a diagram to grasp the concept here (and/or a little more time to work through the New Years hangover).


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

AM21 is pretty simple. It connects via USB to the DVR, power from the wall just goes to the am21, then there's a cable that goes from the AM21 to power the DVR. Then your antenna to the AM21.


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Graphic from the manual. Easy hookup. Your DirecTV remote turns both your STB and AM21 on & off together.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If your HR20s are getting the local stations, the HR34 with an AM21 _should_ also.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The thing that's confusing me about an above post is the reference to the BSF. Other than for an HR20-100, are these really needed, and still allow MRV to work?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Any device that isn't DECA enabled needs a bandstop filter in front of it when used in an active DECA network. The possible penalty is a fried tuner.


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

harsh said:


> Any device that isn't DECA enabled needs a bandstop filter in front of it when used in an active DECA network. The possible penalty is a fried tuner.


 Or just an external DECA to make it "DECA ENABLED."  I had 2 HR20-100's (now gone), 2 HR24's and an HR34 for a long time. I just hung external DECA's on the HR20's and they all lived happily DECA'd together with the rest of the DECA family. Had no BS Filter (although one would sometimes be nice on this forum! :lol.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"flipptyfloppity" said:


> If you keep more than one of your existing receivers alongside the HR34 you'll have more than 8 tuners and so you'll have to switch your dish back to a non-SWM ODU (pickup) and use a SWM-16. Then you have two output lines from the SWM-16 (it's essentially two SWM-8s in parallel except it also merges DeCA for the two), then you need no more than 8 tuners on either leg.
> 
> You'll need an AM21/AM21N to get OTA reception. I am using one right now with my HR34, it works well. Note that diplexed OTA isn't really supported anymore, because it conflicts with DeCA, frequency-wise. So I switched to non-diplexed OTA.
> 
> ...


First, they are BSFs (Band Stop Filters) not band block filters. Second, it is generally easier to tell people how to set things up correctly as opposed to the ways to not do it.

With regard to BSFs, in a SWM system with MRV enabled using DECA, the only time BSFs should be used is for the one circumstance with the HR20 and when you have a SWM-LNB that is not a green label.

- Merg


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

The Merg said:


> ...the only time BSFs should be used is for the one circumstance with the HR20 and when you have a SWM-LNB that is not a green label...


BSF's are also necessary for the new Tivo, D12's, older SWM8's, MDU's, and in custom situations.


----------



## timoth (Feb 27, 2006)

trh said:


> Graphic from the manual. Easy hookup. Your DirecTV remote turns both your STB and AM21 on & off together.


Thanks trh ... that is exactly what I wanted to see. So the AM21 takes commands from the sat receiver via the USB cable? AND is runs it signal through the USB as well? (I have not been able to find a manual online)

In regards to the HR20 ... the MRV is already up and running in my household (I apologize if that wasn't clear).

My main question in the op was about maintaining OTA and if my existing boxes will play along well and a solution for OTA w/ the HR 34.

_... anyone good at mud and taping?_


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

The manual is available at DirecTV's site. Yes, all signals/data thru the USB cable. Local channels show up in your Guide on the box it is connected to. I have one on my HR24; no impact on my five other boxes.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

There is virtually nothing to it, you shut down your DVR or receiver, connect up the antenna feed, connect the usb cable to your dvr/stb and power..boot up and configure. It takes literally 15 minutes to hook up and configure, no manual necessary at all, a monkey could do it.


----------



## Jerry_K (Oct 22, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> There is virtually nothing to it, you shut down your DVR or receiver, connect up the antenna feed, connect the usb cable to your dvr/stb and power..boot up and configure. It takes literally 15 minutes to hook up and configure, no manual necessary at all, a monkey could do it.


Good thing you did not say Caveman.


----------



## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

The Merg said:


> First, they are BSFs (Band Stop Filters) not band block filters. Second, it is generally easier to tell people how to set things up correctly as opposed to the ways to not do it.


Well, I run a little differently. Both ways will work, so I give people the choice. I'm not DirecTV here, I don't have to mandate only a single way to do it when other ways may be as effective and more appropriate for some people. For example, I used diplxed OTA for until two weeks ago.

So, several ways are "correct", one is DirecTV's preferred way and others isn't.



> With regard to BSFs, in a SWM system with MRV enabled using DECA, the only time BSFs should be used is for the one circumstance with the HR20 and when you have a SWM-LNB that is not a green label.


I didn't know that. How does a green label SWM ODU fix the issue of the HR20 reacting poorly to the high power MRV signal being input?


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

flipptyfloppity said:


> I didn't know that. How does a green label SWM ODU fix the issue of the HR20 reacting poorly to the high power MRV signal being input?


I should clarify what I said... There are really two instances the BSF's are used. One is for the specific situation regarding the HR20-100 when it is connected on a MRV network in one particular fashion. The other is when the SWM-LNB is not a green label.

Basically, unless you are trying to segregate MRV between particular receivers, there is no reason to waste money and time installing BSF's except for the reasons posted above.

- Merg


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The Merg said:


> There are really two instances the BSF's are used. One is for the specific situation regarding the HR20-100 when it is connected on a MRV network in one particular fashion. The other is when the SWM-LNB is not a green label.


I believe that the OP presents a third instance.

Whether it is in accordance with DIRECTV's "recommended" configurations or not, it is a valid use of the bandwidth.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> I believe that the OP presents a third instance.
> 
> Whether it is in accordance with DIRECTV's "recommended" configurations or not, it is a valid use of the bandwidth.


The OP didn't present an instance.

As for a valid use of bandwidth, huh?

The post I was responding to uses BSF's in ways that make the setup more difficult to manage and upgrade a later time. While it might work, "recommended" or not is not the issue. The issue is doing things properly.

- Merg


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The Merg said:


> The OP didn't present an instance.


The OP made a case for wanting to use OTA diplexing; something that DIRECTV does not support nor recommend. That doesn't make it any less desirable or useful.

In view of DIRECTV's activity level on adding subchannels, OTA is not an insignificant alternative to getting the content that you want and we all know how the affiliates -- most of whom have more conventional channels -- feel about providers offering "national feeds".


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Probably worth mentioning at this point that OTA users represent a very, very small fraction of DIRECTV's subscriber base.

And it's not really how the affiliates "feel", it's a matter of contract.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> The OP made a case for wanting to use OTA diplexing; something that DIRECTV does not support nor recommend. That doesn't make it any less desirable or useful.
> 
> In view of DIRECTV's activity level on adding subchannels, OTA is not an insignificant alternative to getting the content that you want and we all know how the affiliates -- most of whom have more conventional channels -- feel about providers offering "national feeds".


The OP made no mention of diplexing OTA. All they asked was if there was a way to get OTA on the HR34 since it does not have a OTA tuner.

- Merg


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Probably worth mentioning at this point that OTA users represent a very, very small fraction of DIRECTV's subscriber base.


Probably worth mentioning that, software notwithstanding, DIRECTV doesn't actively seek to marginalize their customers who aren't fully served with all of the locals they desire. DIRECTV's fervent supporters are another story.

It is also likely that if DIRECTV did a better job of supporting OTA, many more would be utilizing it.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I appreciate your attempt to draw conclusions using the data you have access to. There may be other data that contradicts your attempt.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> There may be other data that contradicts your attempt.


I'd be interested in seeing any numerical statistics you can provide.

My early readings on use of the AM21 with the HR34 is that its support may differ from the Plus HD DVRs in such a way that it may be more or less desirable. Is there a difference?


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm still trying to determine if the HR34 operates with the AM21(N) in the same way as all previous receivers.

Some time ago one of the original field testers (can't remember which one at the moment) mentioned that to his surprise the HR34 appeared to allow for OTA in addition to, or instead of, the current (and very unfortunate) downloaded database method.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> I'm still trying to determine if the HR34 operates with the AM21(N) in the same way as all previous receivers.
> 
> Some time ago one of the original field testers (can't remember which one at the moment) mentioned that to his surprise the HR34 appeared to allow for OTA in addition to, or instead of, the current (and very unfortunate) downloaded database method.


That was me and yes the HR34 will add ATSC channels that aren't in the DIRECTV OTA database. Those channels will appear in the guide with no program info so any recordings would need to be set up as manual recordings.

But DIRECTV has never come out and said this was a new feature and it will stay around so I guess at some future date they could remove it if they wanted to.


----------



## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

I'm also considering a HR34. I have two HR20's with DECA. Last year I had my dish replaced and it included the SWM on the dish replacing the SWM8 I had mounted remotely. 

Does the new standard dish with built-in SWM come capable of supplying up to 8 tuners? For once I didn't hover over the DTV installer and ask quesions since he seemed like he knew his stuff and I didn't ask about what SWM he installed.

If I replace one HR20 with a HR34 is it just plug and play by removing the network diplexers (or whatever they're called) and run the one coax into the HR34? 

Is there any configuring needed with the other HR20?

So I loose OTA and gain 3D, 1080P/24, three more tuners, and PIP, cool. Anything else I'm missing? 

Is the HR34 much faster than my HR20?

Swapping a coaxial for an optical audio connection is annoying, now I have to order another custom cable.  And it would be nice to have two HDMI outputs...


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The SWM LNB can support up to 8 tuners maximum. So an HR34 and an HR20 would work.

The change should pretty much be plug and play. Don't have an HR34, so can't speak to your other questions.


----------

