# DBSTalk Exclusive First Look: DIRECTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter



## Doug Brott

DBSTalk.com, the OFFICIAL HOME of the Cutting Edge Program, is proud to present this exclusive First Look at the future of networking DIRECTV High Definition receivers... the DIRECTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter, or DECA.










Click here for the DECA First Look in PDF format.

Special thanks to HDTVfan0001 and dave29 for their excellent authorship of the First Look, and Sixto for the Overview below.

*Please Note: The DECA is not yet available for purchase and DIRECTV installers do not have access to them at this time. These devices were found on the floor at CES 2010 and DBSTalk was able to get our hands on a few of these devices to bring this report to you.*


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## Doug Brott

I'd like to thank *Sixto* for this FAQ:

*Overview*

The *DirecTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter (DECA)* enables DirecTV to create a *DirecTV Coax Home Network*. This is DirecTV's implementation of Multimedia over Coax (MoCA).
The DirecTV Coax Home Network utilizes the frequency range 500-600MHz within a DirecTV SWM environment, to enable Ethernet (RJ-45) connectivity via Coax to DirecTV receivers.
Typically there will be one Coax Network within a home, but there can be multiple Coax Networks, one per SWM port, all bridged to the Home Network.
*Coax Network - Prerequisites*

DirecTV SWM-enabled environment
SWMLine Dish or
SWM-8 MultiSwitch(s)
The SWM environment allows for the 500-600MHz frequency range needed for the Coax Home Network.

DirecTV SWM-capable and Ethernet-capable (RJ-45) receiver(s)
DirecTV H21/H23 HD Receiver(s) or
DirecTV HR2x/R22 DVR Receiver(s) 

Home Network with at least one open RJ-45 interface
*Coax Network - New Hardware*

1 SWM Filter, to separate the SWM from the Coax Network.
1 DECA for connectivity to the existing Home Network. Power is supplied by 1 DECA Power Inserter (PI).
1 DECA for each DirecTV receiver. Power is supplied by the receiver.
Possibly an additional or larger SWM-approved Splitter to provide Coax connectivity.
Special Note: Currently the HR20-100 requires it's DECA to be powered by the secondary tuner input, or a separate PI, while the satellite signal is passed to the primary tuner input.
*Step-1: SWM / Coax Network Separation*

The SWM Filter must be installed after the SWM output, and prior to the first splitter.
Typically the SWM Filter will be installed at the SWM PI output, or at the SWM port#2 output.
Installation of the SWM Filter should have no effect on the existing SWM environment. 
*Step-2: Home Network Connectivity / IP Addressing*

In order to provide Coax Network connectivity to the existing Home Network and the Internet, there needs to be a "network" DECA installed.
The "network" DECA will have three connections:
The "Ethernet" RJ-45 interface will be connected to the Home Network
The "Sat Rcvr / Power" pigtail will be connected to the power inserter (PI)
The "Wall outlet" F-connector will be connected to the SWM environment

All network traffic from any receiver on the Coax Network, to any receiver outside the Coax Network or the Internet, will pass through the "network" DECA.
Installation of the "network" DECA should have no effect on the existing SWM environment.
Note: Instead of installing a "network" DECA, it should be possible to have a DECA-attached receiver with two RJ-45 ports provide the Home Network connectivity by connecting the top RJ-45 port to the DECA and the bottom RJ-45 port to the Home Network. This configuration may be unsupported by DirecTV, and you must be very careful to not create a loop condition whereas there's more then one connection from the Coax Network to the Home Network. This will also cause all network traffic to the Home Network to pass through the DECA that is attached to the receiver providing the Home Network connection, which may affect the network performance of this receiver.
*Step-3: Receiver Network Connectivity*

In order to provide Coax Network connectivity to a DirecTV receiver, there needs to be a "receiver" DECA installed.
The "receiver" DECA will have three connections:
The "Ethernet" RJ-45 interface will be connected to the DirecTV receiver port#1 (top)
The "Sat Rcvr / Power" pigtail will be connected to the DirecTV receiver
The "Wall outlet" F-connector will be connected to the SWM environment

After installation of the "receiver" DECA and restarting the receiver, the receiver should have full network connectivity, just as if the receiver was directly connected to the Home Network.
*Notes:*

Due to the Coax Home Network's use of the 500-600Mhz frequency range, diplexing of OTA into the SWM environment is not supported.
DECA-networked receivers can be inter-mixed with direct-attached networked receivers within the home. 
*Summary*

After the proper installation of the Coax Home Network, each DECA-attached DirecTV receiver should perform very similarly as if the receiver was directly RJ-45 connected to the home network.
*DirecTV Coax Home Network Example - Pictorial View*

Click on thumbnail below.


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## kevinturcotte

Doug
Now that this is out of the CE forum and "Official" does this mean we're closer to being able to purchase?


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## Doug Brott

kevinturcotte said:


> Doug
> Now that this is out of the CE forum and "Official" does this mean we're closer to being able to purchase?


It means that it was shown @ CES .. I do not know when it will be available as that hasn't been hinted at in any information I've found nor have I been given any specific information. It could be next year for all I know but it seems like it will happen before then. I just don't know when.


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## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> It means that it was shown @ CES .. I do not know when it will be available as that hasn't been hinted at in any information I've found nor have I been given any specific information. It could be next year for all I know but it seems like it will happen before then. I just don't know when.


As one of the folks on the ground at CES right now (and yesterday), I can tell you that the question was asked, and Doug's response above is absolutely correct - there is not date established for when DECA will be publicly available.

Those in the know here at the CES were not at all evasive, but told us that it honestly is unknown at this time. Perhaps we'll learn more in the next few months....


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## PaceHD

HR24 = multiroom DVR server, H24 = multiroom receiver? Also RVU supported TV's will be able to link to HR24 without need for box. Presumably there is a very high likelihood Pace is manufacturing this product / won a contract to supply? It sounds like Directv will pay around $700 to Pace per box as Directv CFO suggested so on 5/1. 

One of the Pace engineers working on the project was suggested as Jean-Michel-Marrot according to his linked-in profile. 

Pace have been very cagey about the outlook for 2010 and very unusually omitted any mention in last week's trading statement. This high profile confidential launch for Directv must be a driver along with the significant potential for Directv to be buying Multidweller from Pace also? Both are to be launched within the next two months according to Directv's CFO on 5/1.


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## hdtvfan0001

PaceHD said:


> HR24 = multiroom DVR server, H24 = multiroom receiver? Also RVU supported TV's will be able to link to HR24 without need for box. Presumably there is a very high likelihood Pace is manufacturing this product / won a contract to supply? It sounds like Directv will pay around $700 to Pace per box as Directv CFO suggested so on 5/1.
> 
> One of the Pace engineers working on the project was suggested as Jean-Michel-Marrot according to his linked-in profile.
> 
> Pace have been very cagey about the outlook for 2010 and very unusually omitted any mention in last week's trading statement. This high profile confidential launch for Directv must be a driver along with the significant potential for Directv to be buying Multidweller from Pace also? Both are to be launched within the next two months according to Directv's CFO on 5/1.


I can tell you there was no sigsns of that at CES....the prototype was NOT a Pace unit....that much we did learn.


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## harsh

The DECA frequency band specifications confirm why DIRECTV has been steadfast in recommending against diplexing in OTA. DECA frequencies (500-600MHz) are the same as UHF channels 19 through 35. Depending on how "good" (Q factor) the band-stop (stop band in DIRECTV parlance) filter is, it may well whack all but the highest UHF channels.

The MoCA standard calls for frequencies in the 860MHz to 2GHz range.


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## Grentz

Thanks for the first look guys!



harsh said:


> The MoCA standard calls for frequencies in the 860MHz to 2GHz range.


Which overlap the standard DirecTV frequencies thus the reason for the custom DECA


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## Movieman

BTW fantastic job yet again on this First Look. Lots of valuable information!


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## Sixto

Here's the sample config that goes with post#2.


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## harsh

Shouldn't the device labeled SWM filter be labeled DECA (or "stop band") filter?


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## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Here's the sample config that goes with post#2.


Thanks Sixto....you certainly were a big part with your contributions to our First Look information!


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## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Shouldn't the device labeled SWM filter be labeled DECA (or "stop band") filter?


It actually was "known by" several names.....even during testing....


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## Doug Brott

It is a stop band filter, but most people will probably call it "the filter you connect on your SWM" or "SWM Filter" .. Other than being a technicality, I doubt folks will really get confused over this one.


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## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> It is a stop band filter, but most people will probably call it "the filter you connect on your SWM" or "SWM Filter" .. Other than being a technicality, I doubt folks will really get confused over this one.


If you look on the updated ones it says "Band Stop Filter" and getting really technical it's a notch filter.


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## dvdmth

If the rumors are true that future HR2x/H2x receivers will have DECA built-in, and if the "band stop filter" is required in a DECA setup, does that mean that anyone who gets one of these future receivers must also install a band stop filter on his SWM setup (whether he uses the DECA functionality or not)? This might be an issue if someone needs, say, to get an HR22 replaced and is shipped an HR24 (assuming the hypothetical HR24 has built-in DECA).


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## veryoldschool

dvdmth said:


> If the rumors are true that future HR2x/H2x receivers will have DECA built-in, and if the "band stop filter" is required in a DECA setup, does that mean that anyone who gets one of these future receivers must also install a band stop filter on his SWM setup (whether he uses the DECA functionality or not)? This might be an issue if someone needs, say, to get an HR22 replaced and is shipped an HR24 (assuming the hypothetical HR24 has built-in DECA).


"My guess" is the HR24 won't be shipped as a replacement and will be limited to those with a DECA setup.


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## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> If you look on the updated ones it says "Band Stop Filter" and getting really technical it's a notch filter.


:lol: .. I'll still probably call it an SWiM Filter even though technically it's not accurate .. :lol:


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## Sixto

Doug Brott said:


> :lol: .. I'll still probably call it an SWiM Filter even though technically it's not accurate .. :lol:


me too.


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## kevinwmsn

Any thoughts that D* will allow this as a customer installable item? I wouldn't let a tech to mess with my network. I'm curious about what the pricing on this would be.


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## Doug Brott

I do not know pricing. I also do not know about Do it Yourself installs. The connection point to you network is a single DECA connected to the SWM with an Ethernet cable that needs to be connected into your router.

The only thing a tech would need to touch is to find a port on your router and plug the cable in.


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## hidefman

So, if you desire to keep things as they are.... your own cat wiring, connected to each box...with a wb68, or a wb616 with converters or even a current SWM configuration with diplexing OTA, can you just keep it like that? Forever?


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## jasonki32

hidefman said:


> So, if you desire to keep things as they are.... your own cat wiring, connected to each box...with a wb68, or a wb616 with converters or even a current SWM configuration with diplexing OTA, can you just keep it like that? Forever?


Yes, you could keep your current configuration. If you use SWiM, diplexing OTA is non-supported and that configuration would not work with DECA if you choose to go that route. Otherwise, using your own Ethernet setup would work just fine.

If your network is crowded and you want to free up some traffic, DECA would be your best setup since it frees up bandwith when using MRV as it runs through the DECA cloud and not your home network. If you use DECA you must be on a SWiM setup.


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## Todd H

I'm interested in hearing about a price and customer installs as well.


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## tkrandall

What functionality does this device provide/enable that simply connecting the receviers to a home ethernet network via RJ-45 ports would not?


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## veryoldschool

tkrandall said:


> What functionality does this device provide/enable that simply connecting the receviers to a home ethernet network via RJ-45 ports would not?


I guess this would depend on how busy your home network is.


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## dvdmth

tkrandall said:


> What functionality does this device provide/enable that simply connecting the receviers to a home ethernet network via RJ-45 ports would not?


As I see it, the main advantage of DECA would be that communication between the HR2x receivers (e.g. Multi-Room Viewing) would be isolated from the rest of the network, so other network traffic would be less likely to interfere and reduce the quality of the MRV streams.

In my current setup, I am running MoCA (not DECA) over a Comcast cable coax to get one of my boxes networked. I cannot run MoCA directly to the other box because there are two separate cable lines coming into the house. Instead, I have to run the MoCA connection to the main router (near the cable modem) and from there go to the other DVR via a wired connection. This setup works great, but I have noticed a drop in overall quality when there is other network traffic (since part of the path the MRV stream travels overlaps the path used by other devices to reach the Internet or each other).


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## Sixto

Any two networked devices Ethernet connected to the same Switch communicate isolated point-to-point, with little effect to anything else.

Wireless: they share the same bandwidth, not isolated point-to-point.

DECA is great when there's no network connection available and/or it's wireless. 

If the receivers are already Ethernet connected, then presently (what we know now) there may be no benefit to switching to DECA, unless you expect receivers both inside and outside the DECA-cloud that need to communicate with each other. You want to avoid a bottleneck at the network-DECA.


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## Doug Brott

tkrandall said:


> What functionality does this device provide/enable that simply connecting the receviers to a home ethernet network via RJ-45 ports would not?


The biggest benefit of course is to keep the video streams off of your home network. Also, some routers/switches do not maintain a constant data rate which could cause your experience to be less desirable. But if "it works" for you without DECA, then there may be no need to make a change.


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## Todd H

Doug Brott said:


> The biggest benefit of course is to keep the video streams off of your home network. Also, some routers/switches do not maintain a constant data rate which could cause your experience to be less desirable. But if "it works" for you without DECA, then there may be no need to make a change.


That's why I'm interested. I've already got internet, VOIP, and Netflix streaming on my network. This would help me save some of my bandwidth.


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## LameLefty

Todd H said:


> That's why I'm interested. I've already got internet, VOIP, and Netflix streaming on my network. This would help me save some of my bandwidth.


Chances are your VOIP modem is connected directly to your router. In that case, VOIP shouldn't use your internal LAN bandwidth at all really (unless you mean Skype or something similar from a computer).


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## smiddy

Another DBSTalk.com fine product folks, way to go. Thanks for sharing your insightful writings with us!


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## Todd H

LameLefty said:


> Chances are your VOIP modem is connected directly to your router. In that case, VOIP shouldn't use your internal LAN bandwidth at all really (unless you mean Skype or something similar from a computer).


Yep, I use Skype in addition to Ooma. I forgot I also have a PS3 and an AppleTV connected to my wireless G network.


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## LameLefty

Todd H said:


> Yep, I use Skype in addition to Ooma. I forgot I also have a PS3 and an AppleTV connected to my wireless G network.


With that much going on through an 802.11g network, DECA will be a much better approach to MRV for you.


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## jep8821

If I read the pdf right regarding the DECA cloud,
"All units within a DECA network group (aka “DECA cloud”) must be fed from the same SWM port (if using an external SWM5 or SWM8 multiswitch)." 

If you are using 2 or more swm-8s, you would have more than 1 cloud? My current setup is an SWM-E4 with 2 swm-8s. I have a total of 5 hddvr's so, the 5th one would be on its own cloud. Can you bridge the two clouds together?


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## dave29

jep8821 said:


> If I read the pdf right regarding the DECA cloud,
> "All units within a DECA network group (aka "DECA cloud") must be fed from the same SWM port (if using an external SWM5 or SWM8 multiswitch)."
> 
> If you are using 2 or more swm-8s, you would have more than 1 cloud? My current setup is an SWM-E4 with 2 swm-8s. I have a total of 5 hddvr's so, the 5th one would be on its own cloud. Can you bridge the two clouds together?


You are correct, you would have 2 clouds. Both Clouds with have to connect back to the Router and they will "see" each other. AFAIK, there is no other "bridge" solution at this time.


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## Doug Brott

There is also an SWM-16 solution coming. It's not available today, but it will allow you to put up to 16 tuners (8 HR2x systems) on the same DECA cloud.


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## dpeters11

Ok, one thing I'm trying to figure out. From the schematics, I'd still need to run cable between the two rooms with receivers? I've got 2 HD DVRs and a slimline dish. One DVR in the living room and one in the bedroom. Each feeds directly to the dish outside.


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## Doug Brott

dpeters11 said:


> Ok, one thing I'm trying to figure out. From the schematics, I'd still need to run cable between the two rooms with receivers? I've got 2 HD DVRs and a slimline dish. One DVR in the living room and one in the bedroom. Each feeds directly to the dish outside.


This could be OK .. you'd need a SWiMline (basically an LNB swap). Then DECA @ each receiver with a split at one of the receivers to connect to your home network (if desired).


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## dpeters11

Doug Brott said:


> This could be OK .. you'd need a SWiMline (basically an LNB swap). Then DECA @ each receiver with a split at one of the receivers to connect to your home network (if desired).


Gotcha. So SWiMLine outside at the dish going to each deca. My dsl modem is in the living room, so would I just be able to use the second rj45 on my hr22 to hardwire to my network? Or would I need to do it on the deca?


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## houskamp

dpeters11 said:


> Gotcha. So SWiMLine outside at the dish going to each deca. My dsl modem is in the living room, so would I just be able to use the second rj45 on my hr22 to hardwire to my network? Or would I need to do it on the deca?


 deca adapter can be on any splitter in the system (including one near a reciever)


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## Doug Brott

dpeters11 said:


> Gotcha. So SWiMLine outside at the dish going to each deca. My dsl modem is in the living room, so would I just be able to use the second rj45 on my hr22 to hardwire to my network? Or would I need to do it on the deca?


The second port on the HR22 is not for that purpose. you would need a DECA module that connects you to your broadband connection.


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## djpadz

Doug Brott said:


> The second port on the HR22 is not for that purpose. you would need a DECA module that connects you to your broadband connection.


Actually, the two ethernet ports on the HR22 are bridged (well, switched, really), so if you're using one port to connect to your home LAN, it would make sense that you could connect your DECA adapter to the second port, to bridge the cloud to your home LAN.

I don't personally have DECA on my HR2x boxes, but I do use the second port for other network devices like AppleTVs, or what-have-you, and it works great.

EDIT: I just reread dpeter's message, and perhaps I should clarify... If your HR22 is ultimately connected to your DSL router *and* a DECA cloud, then it would make sense that you could connect the DECA ethernet adapter to the second ethernet port, in order to bridge the cloud to your router.


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## veryoldschool

djpadz said:


> Actually, the two ethernet ports on the HR22 are bridged (well, switched, really), so if you're using one port to connect to your home LAN, it would make sense that you could connect your DECA adapter to the second port, to bridge the cloud to your home LAN.
> 
> I don't personally have DECA on my HR2x boxes, but I do use the second port for other network devices like AppleTVs, or what-have-you, and it works great.


I've done some testing and use DECA also, you should NOT use the second port as it requires processor cycles and this can/will load the system more.
Also the second port [or maybe the drivers] don't respond like a "normal switch" and can hang up a network [router here] during [the extended time of] a software download.
So while you might have it working, you really don't know what other problems this is causing.


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## mikeny

If you're using DECA on an HR which used BBCs previously with a Zinwell mutiswitch, it's my understanding that you wouldn't need the BBC's anymore since DECA would require SWIM. Is it true that BBCs are not required with a SWIM? Thanks in advance.


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## veryoldschool

mikeny said:


> If you're using DECA on an HR which used BBCs previously with a Zinwell mutiswitch, it's my understanding that you wouldn't need the BBC's anymore since DECA would require SWIM. Is it true that BBCs are not required with a SWIM? Thanks in advance.


Yes, SWiM means no BBCs since it does thing differently and can't use them.


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## djpadz

veryoldschool said:


> I've done some testing and use DECA also, you should NOT use the second port as it requires processor cycles and this can/will load the system more.
> Also the second port [or maybe the drivers] don't respond like a "normal switch" and can hang up a network [router here] during [the extended time of] a software download.
> So while you might have it working, you really don't know what other problems this is causing.


Really? I had no idea. Could you elaborate on how the second port doesn't respond like a normal switch? I've run all kinds of devices through mine without any trouble. For example, one of the AppleTVs that sit on the second port of one of my HR2xes is also running a DNS server. Never had an issue with either the DNS or the streaming media functions. Even broadcast traffic goes through without any trouble.


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## veryoldschool

djpadz said:


> Really? I had no idea. Could you elaborate on how the second port doesn't respond like a normal switch? I've run all kinds of devices through mine without any trouble. For example, one of the AppleTVs that sit on the second port of one of my HR2xes is also running a DNS server. Never had an issue with either the DNS or the streaming media functions. Even broadcast traffic goes through without any trouble.


"Sure" [as I wanted to do just what you posted]. I got the DECAs for test and they need to be connected to the first port and I used the second port to "bridge" to my router for internet & other part of my home network. Everything seemed to be working fine, though I was told not to do this [as if I ever follow instructions :lol:].
So I'm in a chatroom during a software download and before the download is even completed [not even at the install re-boot], my network crashes/locks up. Only way is to recycle my router. OK this was a fluke since I can reboot the receiver and not have a problem. Well it wasn't a fluke at all and did this every time it downloaded.
Through some testing [using wireshark & a hub with my PC], the second port would go "quiet" and no longer responded to the router, which was waiting and would finally hang. With the PC and the hub, this didn't happen [the PC would answer]. Removing the PC and using the hub between the DRV & router, the hub would drop off line "telling" the router it had, so no hangup. Since the hub was auto sensing, I could pull the router cable and plug it back and get the port to become active again. Doing this to the cable from the second port of the DVR didn't do anything. Now going into the DVR network menu and asking for it to reconnect, didn't "connect" but this command did get the hub to sense a connection on the port. Re-running the network "connect now" from the DVR would then have it connect to my router.
So what does this all mean?
Well if you know what a software dial-up modem is compared to a hardware dial-up modem, then you know one needs/uses the processor to function while the other has its own controller chip.
This is the best way I can explain how the second port functions. Yes you can get it to do things, but at the expense of the processor and using a "real" switch for the same task is a much better solution.


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## paragon

I have a kind of dumb networking question related to DECA. My router is in a room that doesn't have coax going to it for my DIRECTV network (DIRECTV only reaches my living room, family room and bedroom, but my router is in the office). If I were to put a DECA on each my HR21s and then attach the the "network" DECA to a wireless extender (in my case, an Apple Airport Express in network extender mode) to hook the DECA network into my home network, would MRV traffic have to go through the wireless link to get to my router and go back out, or would that traffic remain solely in the DECA coax network?


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## veryoldschool

paragon said:


> I have a kind of dumb networking question related to DECA. My router is in a room that doesn't have coax going to it for my DIRECTV network (DIRECTV only reaches my living room, family room and bedroom, but my router is in the office). If I were to put a DECA on each my HR21s and then attach the the "network" DECA to a wireless extender (in my case, an Apple Airport Express in network extender mode) to hook the DECA network into my home network, would MRV traffic have to go through the wireless link to get to my router and go back out, or would that traffic remain solely in the DECA coax network?


"I think" what you're asking is:
If all my receivers are connected with DECA, can I use wireless for internet?
If so then yes, the DECA will feed everything between your receivers fine and the wireless "hop" would be for only those things needing to break out of the DECA cloud [VOD, DirecTV2PC, etc].


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## paragon

veryoldschool said:


> "I think" what you're asking is:
> If all my receivers are connected with DECA, can I use wireless for internet?
> If so then yes, the DECA will feed everything between your receivers fine and the wireless "hop" would be for only those things needing to break out of the DECA cloud [VOD, DirecTV2PC, etc].


Yes, that is exactly what I was asking. I wasn't sure because the router would be on the other side of the "hop" from the HR21s and thought maybe the traffic needed to go through the router regardless of if both receivers were inside the cloud. That is very good to know.


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## djpadz

veryoldschool said:


> "Sure" [as I wanted to do just what you posted]. I got the DECAs for test and they need to be connected to the first port and I used the second port to "bridge" to my router for internet & other part of my home network. Everything seemed to be working fine, though I was told not to do this [as if I ever follow instructions :lol:].
> So I'm in a chatroom during a software download and before the download is even completed [not even at the install re-boot], my network crashes/locks up. Only way is to recycle my router. OK this was a fluke since I can reboot the receiver and not have a problem. Well it wasn't a fluke at all and did this every time it downloaded.
> Through some testing [using wireshark & a hub with my PC], the second port would go "quiet" and no longer responded to the router, which was waiting and would finally hang. With the PC and the hub, this didn't happen [the PC would answer]. Removing the PC and using the hub between the DRV & router, the hub would drop off line "telling" the router it had, so no hangup. Since the hub was auto sensing, I could pull the router cable and plug it back and get the port to become active again. Doing this to the cable from the second port of the DVR didn't do anything. Now going into the DVR network menu and asking for it to reconnect, didn't "connect" but this command did get the hub to sense a connection on the port. Re-running the network "connect now" from the DVR would then have it connect to my router.
> So what does this all mean?
> Well if you know what a software dial-up modem is compared to a hardware dial-up modem, then you know one needs/uses the processor to function while the other has its own controller chip.
> This is the best way I can explain how the second port functions. Yes you can get it to do things, but at the expense of the processor and using a "real" switch for the same task is a much better solution.


Interesting... I think I follow what you're saying, but let me play it back, just for my own edification -- and I apologize for taking the topic on a bit of a tangent here.

It sounds to me like the issues that you are describing have to do with the auto-sensing feature of the ports and/or some strange things that happen during software downloads. The auto-sensing problem could just be an incompatibility between the DVR and your hub/switch/router. I can say, from my own experience, that auto-sensing often doesn't, though it's gotten a lot better in the last few years.

It is entirely probable that the HR2x sees both ports as separate ethernet devices, and bridges them through software (think iptables forwarding, if you're a Linux guy), giving credence to your assertion that passing traffic eats CPU, but it's likely done at the kernel level, so the impact is probably pretty minimal. However, for now, under normal operation, the behavior is similar to a two-port switch, even if the switching is done in software. Sure, when the DVR is not in a normal operating state (reboots, software downloads, etc.), it would be completely reasonable to assume that the behavior might change, but I'm not reading anything that would suggest that it's inherently unsafe to connect a device to the second ethernet port, subject to its connectivity being tied directly to the DVR's connectivity.

However, based on what you said, I would retract my earlier comment about using the DECA with the second port. It seems like it would create too many dependent moving parts.

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## veryoldschool

djpadz said:


> Thanks for the clarification!


To put the nail into this a bit farther.. DirecTV engineering has, through the mods here, come out and said this shouldn't be done AND is an unsupported method for reasons they know from error reports being sent in to them.


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> To put the nail into this a bit farther.. DirecTV engineering has, through the mods here, come out and said this shouldn't be done AND is an unsupported method for reasons they know from error reports being sent in to them.


Correct .. using a DIRECTV STB as a bridge between networks is an unwise choice. I know this from firsthand experience during my testing.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I'll also say that in some configurations, such as connecting the HR2x to a hub (not a switch) it sometimes doesn't work and can lead to your entire network being unusable unless you disconnect the DVR.


----------



## djpadz

Doug Brott said:


> Correct .. using a DIRECTV STB as a bridge between networks is an unwise choice. I know this from firsthand experience during my testing.


There may have been two different things being said here... I'm not using my STB as a bridge between networks (ie- between two separate subnets). It's just being used as a two-port switch, bridging connectivity from a network, to a node on that same network. However, I have heard the same thing from D* support, that we're not supposed to do this. I kinda figured that it was because they wouldn't guarantee support in the future (like, they may decide to use the second port for some other private network or something). Regardless, I agree that they've been specific about _what_ they don't want you to do; they just remain vague about _why_. It makes my "question authority" button blink.

I appreciate the discussion though, and, again, I apologize if this has taken the original topic asunder.

So, to pull it back:

Don't connect your DECA to your STB's ethernet port, even if the other port is connected to your LAN.
Using the second port on your STB is discouraged by D* support (as well as the first-hand experiences of some well-respected people here), and will probably cause bad things to happen eventually.
Again, thanks for the discussion! I really do appreciate it!


----------



## paragon

djpadz said:


> Using the second port on your STB is discouraged by D* support (as well as the first-hand experiences of some well-respected people here), and will probably cause bad things to happen eventually.


Are you saying not to use the port at all or just not to use it to bridge networks? I have a Blu-ray Player hooked up to my second port and it appears to be working fine. Is this a no-no?


----------



## DogLover

djpadz said:


> There may have been two different things being said here... I'm not using my STB as a bridge between networks (ie- between two separate subnets). It's just being used as a two-port switch, bridging connectivity from a network, to a node on that same network. However, I have heard the same thing from D* support, that we're not supposed to do this. I kinda figured that it was because they wouldn't guarantee support in the future (like, they may decide to use the second port for some other private network or something). Regardless, I agree that they've been specific about _what_ they don't want you to do; they just remain vague about _why_. It makes my "question authority" button blink.
> 
> I appreciate the discussion though, and, again, I apologize if this has taken the original topic asunder.
> 
> So, to pull it back:
> Don't connect your DECA to your STB's ethernet port, even if the other port is connected to your LAN.
> Using the second port on your STB is discouraged by D* support (as well as the first-hand experiences of some well-respected people here), and will probably cause bad things to happen eventually.
> Again, thanks for the discussion! I really do appreciate it!


I think you've got that a little backward.

1. DECA must be connected to your STB's ethernet port. 
2. Since use of the second port is not-recommended, you shouldn't hook that port up to your LAN.


----------



## veryoldschool

paragon said:


> Are you saying not to use the port at all or just not to use it to bridge networks? I have a Blu-ray Player hooked up to my second port and it appears to be working fine. Is this a no-no?


"Kind of" [a no no] though I doubt the player is having that much traffic being sent through the DVR's ports.
Now what nobody wants is to start having problems with the DVR and it becoming very hard to narrow down the cause.
"Therefore" not using the second port and getting a switch to replace it will eliminate this "unknown" problem.
Switches are getting just so cheap now that this is becoming a no-brainer.


----------



## paragon

veryoldschool said:


> "Kind of" [a no no] though I doubt the player is having that much traffic being sent through the DVR's ports.
> Now what nobody wants is to start having problems with the DVR and it becoming very hard to narrow down the cause.
> "Therefore" not using the second port and getting a switch to replace it will eliminate this "unknown" problem.
> Switches are getting just so cheap now that this is becoming a no-brainer.


I have an old 4-port 10/100 router I could use in switch mode. Maybe I'll just do that. The player will have high traffic when I use it for Netflix streaming, but otherwise should be essentially idle.


----------



## DogLover

paragon said:


> Are you saying not to use the port at all or just not to use it to bridge networks? I have a Blu-ray Player hooked up to my second port and it appears to be working fine. Is this a no-no?


Several people have mentioned they use the second port for a device that is typically not in use when the DVR is in use. They have not seen any slow downs of their DVR.

However, with MRV, your DVR may be in "use" from another location, even when using the Blu-ray Player. Also, if you are slowing down your DVR, or causing problems with MRV, they may be occasional and hard to track down.

Since this is a "not recommeded" configuration, I would recommend. 1. Start saving for an inexpensive switch and 2. If there are any problems at all, the very first troubleshooting step should be to disconnect the second port.

Edit: Yeah, what VOS said.


----------



## pfp

Is it possible to use this DECA configuration without connecting it to my home network or is that required? I realize this means no DOD or other fun stuff that recuires an internet connection but it should allow MRV since all receivers are networked together.


----------



## DogLover

pfp said:


> Is it possible to use this DECA configuration without connecting it to my home network or is that required? I realize this means no DOD or other fun stuff that recuires an internet connection but it should allow MRV since all receivers are networked together.


yes, it should work that way.


----------



## pfp

DogLover said:


> yes, it should work that way.


Cool. It will be interesting to see what this will cost. What are the odds it won't trigger another 2 year commitment (10%)?


----------



## veryoldschool

Odds "it won't"? :lol: :lol:


----------



## mikeny

Can the DECA module be connected to one of your network switches instead of the actual router for DOD, DirecTV2PC and Media Share?


----------



## Shades228

I'm wondering if Linksys won the bid to be the router installed when this goes live for those customers who don't have a router. If they did it would be interesting to see if they make a router specific for it that has deca support built in.


----------



## dave29

mikeny said:


> Can the DECA module be connected to one of your network switches instead of the actual router for DOD, DirecTV2PC and Media Share?


Yep


----------



## DogLover

Shades228 said:


> I'm wondering if Linksys won the bid to be the router installed when this goes live for those customers who don't have a router. If they did it would be interesting to see if they make a router specific for it that has deca support built in.


Since a router isn't required for MRV, I would imagine that DirecTV would not install routers. Just like now, it would be up to the customer to install that if they want internet access.


----------



## KnordRW

Since I didn't see this addressed anywhere else yet, I figured I'd ask...

Does DECA have a limit to how many nodes it can have in the cloud? MoCA 1.0 is limited to 8 nodes, 1.1 increases that to 15 (I think). Since DECA is based on MoCA, just utilizing a different frequency, it makes sense that there would be a limit.


----------



## harsh

I'm wondering if DECA doesn't feature DHCP so a router might be handy.


----------



## DogLover

harsh said:


> I'm wondering if DECA doesn't feature DHCP so a router might be handy.


Only if you want to connect the DECA "cloud" to your home network to get to the internet. If no DHCP server is present, the boxes (using the automatic setup option) will assign themselves unique ip addresses.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DogLover said:


> Only if you want to connect the DECA "cloud" to your home network to get to the internet. If no DHCP server is present, the boxes (using the automatic setup option) will assign themselves unique ip addresses.


This was also referenced in the "First Look" on DECA.


----------



## texasbrit

One question I don't think I have seen asked. Does the DVR/receiver know it is attached via DECA? Unless each DECA device has an IP address on the LAN I would think the answer would be "No". Maybe the SWM has an IP address? The DVR/receiver is talking through the DECA "cloud" just as it would via ethernet (it has to because otherwise you could not access VOD etc.) Presumably also other devices attached to the router (which accesses the DECA "cloud" via an adapter) just see the DVRs/receivers attached to the DECA "cloud" as ethernet-attached devices.


----------



## LameLefty

texasbrit said:


> One question I don't think I have seen asked. Does the DVR/receiver know it is attached via DECA? Unless each DECA device has an IP address on the LAN I would think the answer would be "No". Maybe the SWM has an IP address?


Nope. The DECA dongle is strictly a bridge to the ethernet port on the HR2x. The SWM isn't even part of the network, per se. The DECA filter keeps the DECA frequencies isolated from the SWM itself. Really, you could use DECA dongles connected to an network of splitter-connected coax without the SWM connected at all.


----------



## Steve

LameLefty said:


> [...] Really, you could use DECA dongles connected to an network of splitter-connected coax without the SWM connected at all.


That's exactly what I've seen Verizon do, to get FiOS internet service into rooms already pre-wired with coax, even if the coax has been split one or more times. The split feeds go into MoCA adapters with RJ-45 jacks on them.


----------



## Sixto

texasbrit said:


> One question I don't think I have seen asked. Does the DVR/receiver know it is attached via DECA?


It does appear that the receiver may know that there is a DECA attached to the SAT-IN port. It needs to power the DECA.

It appears that it detects the DECA at power-up, and then provides power to enable the DECA to provide networking functions. It didn't appear that the power is always enabled, because the powering of the DECA was enabled via a firmware upgrade.

It's not clear if once the DECA is powered whether the receiver can actually sense whether the traffic through the Ethernet port is actually coming through the DECA it's powering or not. My guess would be yes, but as has been stated, the DECA does not have it's own IP address, it just a bridge. It does have a MAC address assigned, but appears to not be externally visible in any way.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sixto said:


> It's not clear if once the DECA is powered whether the receiver can actually sense whether the traffic through the Ethernet port is actually coming through the DECA or not. My guess would be yes, but as has been stated, the DECA does not have it's own IP address, it just a bridge. It does have a MAC address.


My guess would be "no".
It also "doesn't" have a MAC address.


----------



## Sixto

veryoldschool said:


> My guess would be "no".
> It also "doesn't" have a MAC address.


Correct, certainly no externally visible MAC address for the DECA, but the DECA is labeled with a MAC address, maybe that's just a technicality. Maybe I should have said it has a MAC address assigned to it, but not visible or being used.

Also, relative to whether the receiver can "sense" if the traffic is coming through the DECA, it's just seemed like it may be able to figure it out in some way.


----------



## harsh

DECA is a network wiring scheme. I would expect that it would be transport protocol agnostic.


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> DECA is a network wiring scheme. I would expect that it would be transport protocol agnostic.


It's a bit more than a "wiring scheme," but of course your DECA units might be different. You do have one, right?


----------



## veryoldschool

LameLefty said:


> It's a bit more than a "wiring scheme," but of course your DECA units might be different. You do have one, right?


I didn't know they worked on a Dish system.  :lol:


----------



## harsh

DogLover said:


> Only if you want to connect the DECA "cloud" to your home network to get to the internet. If no DHCP server is present, the boxes (using the automatic setup option) will assign themselves unique ip addresses.


I thought this was a function of the receivers themselves. My understanding was that they used something that looked an awful lot like the Windows peer to peer address assignment scheme absent a DHCP server.


----------



## harsh

veryoldschool said:


> I didn't know they worked on a Dish system.  :lol:


I would have thought that they would work with anything that can provide power. They would appear to get along with conventional switchgear with a PI in the system.

Obviously they aren't compatible with DISH's satellite distribution system but as a standalone network, I'm guessing they would work like MoCA adapters. Does anyone have conclusive proof to the contrary?


----------



## veryoldschool

harsh said:


> I would have thought that they would work with anything that can provide power. They would appear to get along with conventional switchgear with a PI in the system.
> 
> Obviously they aren't compatible with DISH's satellite distribution system but as a standalone network, I'm guessing they would work like MoCA adapters. Does anyone have conclusive proof to the contrary?


"If you could get them", 
I'd imagine they would work on any splitter based coax system that didn't have anything in the frequency band they use.


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> I thought this was a function of the receivers themselves. My understanding was that they used something that looked an awful lot like the Windows peer to peer address assignment scheme absent a DHCP server.


Why do you keep inserting random comments into this thread, which are of course based solely on what you hear second-hand? You just paraphrased what Doug said using different terminology.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> "If you could get them",
> I'd imagine they would work on any splitter based coax system that didn't have anything in the frequency band they use.





LameLefty said:


> Why do you keep inserting random comments into this thread, which are of course based solely on what you hear second-hand? You just paraphrased what Doug said using different terminology.


Which of course raises the repeated question.....why would any DISH subscriber even care?

Unless...perhaps...we have a future convert.


----------



## texasbrit

My question had a slightly ulterior motive, what I was trying to do is sort out the technical basis for an answer to this question. 
If my DVRs are networked through DECA/SWM, is there any way the DVR/receiver can tell it is networked through DECA/SWM and not regular ethernet? I think the answer is "No" but am looking for comments.


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> My question had a slightly ulterior motive, what I was trying to do is sort out the technical basis for an answer to this question.
> If my DVRs are networked through DECA/SWM, is there any way the DVR/receiver can tell it is networked through DECA/SWM and not regular ethernet? I think the answer is "No" but am looking for comments.


"Yes" would only be if the DECA was internal to the receiver [newer models] and "No" for DECA adapters that connect through the ethernet jack.


----------



## DogLover

harsh said:


> I thought this was a function of the receivers themselves. My understanding was that they used something that looked an awful lot like the Windows peer to peer address assignment scheme absent a DHCP server.


You are correct. When I said "box" I was referring to the STB's, not the DECA modules. Whether connected by DECA or ethernet, if there is no DHCP server, they will assign themselves unique id's.

For example, you can connect a DVR to another DVR or receiver (that is MRV capable) and theat will work just fine. Of course, if you have more than 2 boxes, or if they are not in the same room, DECA would be a much nicer solution.


----------



## harsh

Even if the DECA adapters don't turn out to be cheaper than MoCA adapters, they certainly have the distinct advantage of being compatible with elderly RG59 based wiring systems and DISH's bandwidth utilization plan.

DECA could presumably be diplexed into a DISH Network satellite distribution system (and perhaps some legacy DIRECTV cabling systems as well) if it isn't too closely tied to DIRECTV receivers and switchgear as some have hinted.


----------



## Sixto

texasbrit said:


> If my DVRs are networked through DECA/SWM, is there any way the DVR/receiver can tell it is networked through DECA/SWM and not regular ethernet? I think the answer is "No" but am looking for comments.


I still think the answer may be YES.

The RF signal passes thru the DECA to the receiver

The receiver communicates with the SWM thru the DECA.

The DECA creates the packets for the Ethernet port.

You'd think the DECA could sniff the RF for the SWM communication channel looking for a request from the receiver to stick a packet on the Ethernet port to show that the DECA is there.

VOS?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sixto said:


> The RF signal passes thru the DECA to the receiver
> VOS?


Think of the DECA as having a tripelxer in it.
2.3 MHz goes through to the SWM.
500-600 MHz "stops" at the DECA.
800+MHz passes through the DECA.
The receiver would need to "know/sense" the 500-600 band is being blocked [which only the HR23 could, but in SWM mode wouldn't].

Now once DECA is internal, this all changes with "a pin" reporting status.


----------



## texasbrit

Thanks, VOS, that's what I thought. That means I think that when DirecTV says they will "support" only DECA implememntations, they can't actually prevent someone from using just ethernet....


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> Thanks, VOS, that's what I thought. That means I think that when DirecTV says they will "support" only DECA implememntations, they can't actually prevent someone from using just ethernet....


Only by what their computer shows as what has been sold/leased to you and whether a tech has come out to install it.
"If all of the above are there", then the CSR can activate.
If one isn't listed, then the computer won't.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> Think of the DECA as having a tripelxer in it.
> *2.3 MHz goes through to the SWM.
> 500-600 MHz "stops" at the DECA.
> 800+MHz passes through the DECA.*The receiver would need to "know/sense" the 500-600 band is being blocked [which only the HR23 could, but in SWM mode wouldn't].
> 
> Now once DECA is internal, this all changes with "a pin" reporting status.


I like it when folks speak in English.


----------



## harsh

Sixto said:


> The receiver communicates with the SWM thru the DECA.


The SWM switch itself probably doesn't speak DECA at all; it would seem to have no use for it (unless the DECA unit blocks out the 2.3MHz signal). It just happens to be located at the root of the coax wiring tree that also carries DECA.

VOS's triplexer metaphor supports that the DECA unit doesn't affect SWM operations at all.


----------



## HoTat2

harsh said:


> The SWM switch itself probably doesn't speak DECA at all; it would seem to have no use for it (unless the DECA unit blocks out the 2.3MHz signal). It just happens to be located at the root of the coax wiring tree that also carries DECA.
> 
> VOS's triplexer metaphor supports that the DECA unit doesn't affect SWM operations at all.


I think that's what Sixto meant by "thru." That the DECA dongle simply passes "thru" the RF SWM signals "to" (9 RF carriers) and "from" (the 2.3 MHz control signal) the satellite receiver.

Not that the DECA dongle converts the satellite related SWM signals to ethernet data on its DECA frequencies to communicate with the SWM switch.

It couldn't do that anyhow since the DECA filter blocks those signals from entering the SWM switch.

However, the DECA dongles probably do block out the DECA frequencies between 500-600 MHz from reaching the receiver.


----------



## Sixto

HoTat2 said:


> I think that's what Sixto meant by "thru." That the DECA dongle simply passes "thru" the RF SWM signals "to" (9 RF carriers) and "from" (the 2.3 MHz control signal) the satellite receiver.


Exactly.

The thought was that since the RF signal passes thru the DECA, that the DECA might be able to sniff the spectrum for a DECA command, for a request from the receiver, possibly to insert a packet on the Ethernet port, so that the receiver would know it's there. Was just a thought.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sixto said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The thought was that since the RF signal passes thru the DECA, that the DECA might be able to sniff the spectrum for a DECA command, for a request from the receiver, possibly to insert a packet on the Ethernet port, so that the receiver would know it's there. Was just a thought.


Thoughts are good.
Sometimes they work out and other times they don't.
I haven't seen any interaction between the receiver and the DECA adapter, other than it functioning as a bridge from the ethernet jack.
Once DECA is added inside the receiver, it could very easily report it's active and the receiver could report coax connected under networking info.


----------



## mwp09

I may be wrong here and I hope this isn't too much of a duh point but don't you think that Directv is using this system mostly due to the fact that they know that most people don't have CAT 5 wired to all areas where the receivers are located and this simply allows for the ethernet to piggy back over the coax wiring? Since they (Directv) are charging additionally for MRV wouldn't this method allow for an increased revenue stream? Unless I hear otherwise, I am going to continue to take advantage of direct wiring via my existing home network and the SWM installed in my home.


----------



## dave29

mwp09 said:


> I may be wrong here and I hope this isn't too much of a duh point but don't you think that Directv is using this system mostly due to the fact that they know that most people don't have CAT 5 wired to all areas where the receivers are located and this simply allows for the ethernet to piggy back over the coax wiring? Since they (Directv) are charging additionally for MRV wouldn't this method allow for an increased revenue stream? Unless I hear otherwise, I am going to continue to take advantage of direct wiring via my existing home network and the SWM installed in my home.


Duh.

Just kidding, welcome to DBSTalk.


----------



## mwp09

Thank you


----------



## HoTat2

mwp09 said:


> I may be wrong here and I hope this isn't too much of a duh point but don't you think that Directv is using this system mostly due to the fact that they know that most people don't have CAT 5 wired to all areas where the receivers are located and this simply allows for the ethernet to piggy back over the coax wiring? Since they (Directv) are charging additionally for MRV wouldn't this method allow for an increased revenue stream? Unless I hear otherwise, I am going to continue to take advantage of direct wiring via my existing home network and the SWM installed in my home.


Actually its more than that;

Even if a home is pre-wired for ethernet, since DirecTV intends to charge and provide customer support for MRV it needs their own single networking solution for it which their CSRs and technicians are specifically trained for and can install or troubleshoot. And not have to deal with MRV issues on the myriad of different home networking configurations customers may otherwise be using for it.


----------



## HoTat2

And pardon me if this as been already addressed in an earlier post, but on a minor point I think there is an erroneous statement in the "First Look" document where it says regarding the PI for the DECA module which connects to the router:

"A 21-volt Power Inserter (PI) is
used to power the DECA that connects the network
to the internet. *This is the same Power Inserter that
is currently used by the SWM LNBâ€™s although those
are 29-volts.* This photo reflects the back side view
of the Power Inserter, used at the broadband Internet
location."

Isn't the 29 VDC PI actually for the SWM module?

Though I understand it can be used to power a SWiM LNB as was done during early testing of it, the 21 volt PI is the proper one for the SWiM LNB.


----------



## veryoldschool

HoTat2 said:


> And pardon me if this as been already addressed in an earlier post, but on a minor point I think there is an erroneous statement in the "First Look" document where it says regarding the PI for the DECA module which connects to the router:
> 
> "A 21-volt Power Inserter (PI) is
> used to power the DECA that connects the network
> to the internet. *This is the same Power Inserter that
> is currently used by the SWM LNBâ€™s although those
> are 29-volts.* This photo reflects the back side view
> of the Power Inserter, used at the broadband Internet
> location."
> 
> Isn't the 29 VDC PI actually for the SWM module?
> 
> Though I understand it can be used to power a SWiM LNB as was done during early testing of it, the 21 volt PI is the proper one for the SWiM LNB.


The 29 Volt PI was used with the SWMLNB at first.
The 21 Volt PI became the production PI for the SWMLNB.
The 21 Volt SWMLNB PI was used with the DECA at first.
There is a newer PI for the DECA now.
"The real point" is that these are 21 volt and NO ONE should use the 29 Volt for DECA.
"So" a first look, is just than. A look at what something is at first.
We'd need to have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. "look" to keep up with all the changes as anything goes from test to production.


----------



## HoTat2

veryoldschool said:


> The 29 Volt PI was used with the SWMLNB at first.
> The 21 Volt PI became the production PI for the SWMLNB.
> The 21 Volt SWMLNB PI was used with the DECA at first.
> There is a newer PI for the DECA now.
> "The real point" is that these are 21 volt and NO ONE should use the 29 Volt for DECA.
> "So" a first look, is just than. A look at what something is at first.
> We'd need to have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. "look" to keep up with all the changes as anything goes from test to production.


OK VOS;

But my suggested minor inaccuracy really did not apply to anything about the DECA modules and their associated parts, but to the statement about the 29 vdc PI used for the SWiMLNB which I assumed was well standardized at 21 volts when the DECA First Look doc. was composed.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

HoTat2 said:


> OK VOS;
> 
> But my suggested minor inaccuracy really did not apply to anything about the DECA modules and their associated parts, but to the statement about the 29 vdc PI used for the SWiMLNB which I assumed was well standardized at 21 volts *when the DECA First Look doc. was composed*.


There were still both flavors of PI being installed at the time during which the First Look was being composed...it standardized at the 21 volt version soon thereafter.


----------



## jsmuga

Does it matter where the internet from the router is inserted into the DECA Cloud ?


----------



## Sixto

jsmartin99 said:


> Does it matter where the internet from the router is inserted into the DECA Cloud ?


The DECA cloud is per SWM port, after the filter.

The network-DECA can be attached to any splitter port, usually on the first split, but does work on any.


----------



## gator1234

I don't get it. Directv has set up BETA for MRV and downloaded the software. They also only want you to use their DECA system which is fine. But DECA equipment is not available. How can anyone beta test without the equipment?

When will DECA hardware be available? Again why start beta testing when no one has the equipment?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

gator1234 said:


> I don't get it. Directv has set up BETA for MRV and downloaded the software. They also only want you to use their DECA system which is fine. But DECA equipment is not available. How can anyone beta test without the equipment?
> 
> When will DECA hardware be available? Again why start beta testing when no one has the equipment?


MRV works within this beta cycle using any quality-setup Ethernet network.

Once it become a public feature/capability....the *speculation is that it may require a SWM/DECA network configuration *to operate. *That information *has yet to be confirmed as fact.


----------



## cdvorak

am building a new home & can run coax and cat 5 anywhere - my problem is I am confused about DECA - could someone please give me a simple explanation of what it does, ( currently use 2 HD-DVR & 1 HR15)
plan to continue with 3 receivers, although may add a 4th or 5th in the future

my questions:
1. what does DECA do?
2. would I still need a receiver for each tv
3. if not, how would the signal go from a receiver to multiple tv's - i.e. coax or cat 5
4. anything else that would help


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## LameLefty

cdvorak said:


> am building a new home & can run coax and cat 5 anywhere - my problem is I am confused about DECA - could someone please give me a simple explanation of what it does, ( currently use 2 HD-DVR & 1 HR15)
> plan to continue with 3 receivers, although may add a 4th or 5th in the future
> 
> my questions:
> 1. what does DECA do?
> 2. would I still need a receiver for each tv
> 3. if not, how would the signal go from a receiver to multiple tv's - i.e. coax or cat 5
> 4. anything else that would help


Please read the First Look document, the very first post on the first page of the thread.


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## chevyguy559

Any word or hint of when these things will be available? I went up in the attic and tried to run a network cable to my bedroom DVR, but being 6'5" and 270ish and being that where I needed to go with the cable was near the lowest point of the roofline, I REALLY REALLY need these things :lol:


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## CJTE

Why does DECA require SWM?


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## hdtvfan0001

chevyguy559 said:


> Any word or hint of when these things will be available? I went up in the attic and tried to run a network cable to my bedroom DVR, but being 6'5" and 270ish and being that where I needed to go with the cable was near the lowest point of the roofline, I REALLY REALLY need these things :lol:


There is no official DECA release date announced....so far, only *beta* field tests have been completed and reported in the First Look. However it would not be a surprise to see DECA appear in some form later in 2010.


CJTE said:


> Why does DECA require SWM?


Because the legacy multi-switches do not have the ability to isolate and stack the frequency distribution the way SWM units can.

Conventional multi-switches were designed to distribute the signal on a tuner-by-tuner basis through corresponding multiple runs of coax in a home.

SWM "filters" and controls the distribution of how the various frequency range bandwidth is segmented within each coax run. DECA technology then leverages the same infrastructure for network/Internet support on the very same single coax. This reduces the need for a DVR, for example, to have a separate run of coax for each tuner, nor Ethernet direct cabling.

The result - one single coax connection supports multiple tuners and network/Internet connectivity - neat, clean, and simpler installations.


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## CJTE

hdtvfan0001 said:


> CJTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does DECA require SWM?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the legacy multi-switches do not have the ability to isolate and stack the frequency distribution the way SWM units can.
> 
> Conventional multi-switches were designed to distribute the signal on a tuner-by-tuner basis through corresponding multiple runs of coax in a home.
> 
> SWM "filters" and controls the distribution of how the various frequency range bandwidth is segmented within each coax run. DECA technology then leverages the same infrastructure for network/Internet support on the very same single coax. This reduces the need for a DVR, for example, to have a separate run of coax for each tuner, nor Ethernet direct cabling.
Click to expand...

I figured it was something like that.
I was curious because MoCA is point-to-point.


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## veryoldschool

CJTE said:


> I figured it was something like that.
> I was curious because MoCA is point-to-point.


Both MoCA & DECA work on "splitter based" systems, though each use different frequencies because of the system they're designed for.


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## james hyde

what is this for


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## LameLefty

james hyde said:


> what is this for


Networking boxes for MRV (multi-room viewing), Media Share, and connection to internet-based services such as Directv On Demand.


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## james hyde

there is a ethernet plug on my receiver why do i need this?????????????


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## dave29

james hyde said:


> there is a ethernet plug on my receiver why do i need this?????????????


You don't need it if you can run an ethernet cable to your box. This solution is for "ethernet over coax".


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## phatmatt1215

When might this become available?


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## chevyguy559

chevyguy559 said:


> Any word or hint of when these things will be available? I went up in the attic and tried to run a network cable to my bedroom DVR, but being 6'5" and 270ish and being that where I needed to go with the cable was near the lowest point of the roofline, I REALLY REALLY need these things :lol:


Well my desire to use MRV got the best of me and I crammed my body into the smallest part of my attic and got the cable dropped exactly where I wanted it and am now enjoying MRV glory! :lol: I'm just glad I didn't break through the ceiling as I have in the past :eek2::lol:


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## james hyde

so i can use the plug on my receiver to connet to the internet or what??????


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## jasonki32

james hyde said:


> so i can use the plug on my receiver to connet to the internet or what??????


You can use the ethernet port to hook up to the internet through your router. This can be used for D* On Demand or Multiroom viewing, depending on your setup. This adapter, however, is not available to the public and D* has not released a date that it will be.


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## Spoffo

My home theater rack is at the far end of the house from the office, router and other computer gear. There are about 4 boxes there that need or can use a network connection.(BluRay player, Slingbox, etc.) So far those have all been done with wireless bridges, etc, but with mixed results. If I had DECA, could I split off a CAT5 (in addition to the co-ax to the HR20) at the DECA box and have that go to a ethernet switch to provide a better network connections to the other network-using components?

This isn't idle curiosity. I'm close to gritting my teeth and running a CAT5 line all the way out there from the office, but if DECA can handle all that (plus possibly provide a more future-proof solution for MRV) I'd probably suffer a little longer and wait for it to become available.


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## TheRatPatrol

Spoffo said:


> My home theater rack is at the far end of the house from the office, router and other computer gear. There are about 4 boxes there that need or can use a network connection.(BluRay player, Slingbox, etc.) So far those have all been done with wireless bridges, etc, but with mixed results. * If I had DECA, could I split off a CAT5 (in addition to the co-ax to the HR20) at the DECA box and have that go to a ethernet switch to provide a better network connections to the other network-using components?
> *
> This isn't idle curiosity. I'm close to gritting my teeth and running a CAT5 line all the way out there from the office, but if DECA can handle all that (plus possibly provide a more future-proof solution for MRV) I'd probably suffer a little longer and wait for it to become available.


I'm wondering the same thing, as my office and internet connections are on the opposite side of the house from my satellite connections. I'm currently using wireless.


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## veryoldschool

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm wondering the same thing, as my office and internet connections are on the opposite side of the house from my satellite connections. I'm currently using wireless.


The DECA needs to be powered from the receiver, but other than that, there should be no problem connecting it to a switch that then feeds several devices. You will be sharing bandwidth, so you don't want to go overboard.
The DECA that bridges to my home network is basically doing the same thing.


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## LameLefty

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm wondering the same thing, as my office and internet connections are on the opposite side of the house from my satellite connections. I'm currently using wireless.


The DECA module is just a bridge between RG6 coax and ethernet. You can use it to network anything you like, but realize that mixing other traffic on the coax "cloud" might degrade MRV performance. The whole idea of the concept as used by Directv is to simplify the networking of their own boxes to facilitate MRV and isolate that traffic from the rest of the stuff on a typical home LAN.


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## slimoli

veryoldschool said:


> The DECA needs to be powered from the receiver
> QUOTE]
> 
> If the receiver is in standby, is the DECA powered or we really need to turn it on ?


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## LameLefty

slimoli said:


> veryoldschool said:
> 
> 
> 
> The DECA needs to be powered from the receiver
> QUOTE]
> 
> If the receiver is in standby, is the DECA powered or we really need to turn it on ?
> 
> 
> 
> If the receiver is in standby, the only things that are different are that the front panel lights are off and the a/v outputs disabled.
Click to expand...


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## ejhuzy

While my house is wired with cat5e, I find DECA interesting. However, do I understand it correctly that I have to be using SWM? If so, will directv come and change that for me?


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## Mike Bertelson

ejhuzy said:


> While my house is wired with cat5e, I find DECA interesting. However, do I understand it correctly that I have to be using SWM? If so, will directv come and change that for me?


Yes it does require SWiM to work.

They may upgrade it for you but I don't know if there is an established path for that yet.

I think, for now at least, you would have to buy/install your own SWiM module. The SWiM- LNB is simply a matter of unscrewing the old LNB and screwing on the new one...and connect the coax. No messing with the dish is necessary. An SWM8 can be installed where the four wires come into your home.

Hope this helps. 

Mike


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## ejhuzy

MicroBeta said:


> Yes it does require SWiM to work.
> 
> They may upgrade it for you but I don't know if there is an established path for that yet.
> 
> I think, for now at least, you would have to buy/install your own SWiM module. The SWiM- LNB is simply a matter of unscrewing the old LNB and screwing on the new one...and connect the coax. No messing with the dish is necessary. An SWM8 can be installed where the four wires come into your home.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Mike


Thanks, it does help. I'll wait and see if there's an upgrade path.


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## jmschnur

This is of interest to me as well. Let us know how we can play or pay.

Joel


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## whatliesbeyond

Something about DECA troubles me though. Is DECA going to be much help to existing subscribers, given that it needs a SWiM setup? How many existing subscribers have a SWiM? I've been with Directv since 1996, and upgraded to HD about 18 months ago when I bought an HDTV and two HR-21s from BB. At the time of the upgrade, Directv sent out an installer who put up a Slimline-5 dish, but he didn't put in a SWiM box (and I didn't even know they existed, so I didn't ask about it). If they were not routinely putting in SWiMs until sometime in the last year or so (and maybe not even then unless you had the existing need), I have to believe a sizable majority of Directv's 20 million subscribers do not have a SWiM setup.

So it seems to me that MRV through DECA will be an option for the millions of people like me only if we are willing to purchase a SWiM (at least $50) and pay for the cost of installation (though techies could I am sure could avoid the approximate $100 cost of the installation, as long as it doesn't require going up onto the roof). We'd also have to purchase the $25 kit for the external adapters too. Given these costs, someone would really really have to want MRV and internet through DECA to go this route.

So while DECA is great for people with SWiM and new subscribers, for the rest of us I'm hoping D* will offer to install SWiMs in exchange for a new 2 year contract. Any chance of this?


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## say-what

whatliesbeyond said:


> So it seems to me that MRV through DECA will be an option for the millions of people like me only if we are willing to purchase a SWiM (at least $50) and pay for the cost of installation (though techies could I am sure could avoid the approximate $100 cost of the installation, as long as it doesn't require going up onto the roof). We'd also have to purchase the $25 kit for the external adapters too. Given these costs, someone would really really have to want MRV and internet through DECA to go this route.
> 
> So while DECA is great for people with SWiM and new subscribers, for the rest of us I'm hoping D* will offer to install SWiMs in exchange for a new 2 year contract. Any chance of this?


All we know is that DirecTV is going to offer some sort of upgrade path for MRV, but nothing more at this time.


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## veryoldschool

say-what said:


> All we know is that DirecTV is going to offer some sort of upgrade path for MRV, but nothing more at this time.


While the final details aren't released yet, their "plan" is to have an affordable upgrade package, for those without SWiM and wanting MRV.


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## marklyn

One thing I don't understand under DECA. Why isn't the SAT2 connection used on a two tuner receiver. How would my HR23-700 receivers be able to record two channels at once with this setup?


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## RoyGBiv

marklyn said:


> One thing I don't understand under DECA. Why isn't the SAT2 connection used on a two tuner receiver. How would my HR23-700 receivers be able to record two channels at once with this setup?


Using a SWM the switching for both tuners is done through the SWM. You don't need a second connection to the satellite for the second tuner, but you can still record two shows at one time.

SMK


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## marklyn

RoyGBiv said:


> Using a SWM the switching for both tuners is done through the SWM. You don't need a second connection to the satellite for the second tuner, but you can still record two shows at one time.
> 
> SMK


Hrm. Maybe it's not important that I don't understand just how that works but I'm sure having a tough time wrapping my brain around that!
I assumed two cables, two tuners. Now that I'm understanding DECA more, I'm more interested in it, particularly since the MRV transfers won't impede my network. Then again, there sure looks like there is more stuff under the hood to go wrong with DECA.


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## dave29

marklyn said:


> Hrm. Maybe it's not important that I don't understand just how that works but I'm sure having a tough time wrapping my brain around that!
> I assumed two cables, two tuners. Now that I'm understanding DECA more, I'm more interested in it, particularly since the MRV transfers won't impede my network. Then again, there sure looks like there is more stuff under the hood to go wrong with DECA.


You need SWM to use DECA. SWM will run both tuners off of one cable attached to the SAT in 1 port.


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## marklyn

dave29 said:


> You need SWM to use DECA. SWM will run both tuners off of one cable attached to the SAT in 1 port.


Yeah, I gathered I'd need a SWM switch, I just don't get how it works with one cable since I thought what is apparantly happening in the switch was happening in/at the receiver level.
I'll try to find some details on it to satisfy the geek in me.


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## LameLefty

marklyn said:


> Yeah, I gathered I'd need a SWM switch, I just don't get how it works with one cable since I thought what is apparantly happening in the switch was happening in/at the receiver level.
> I'll try to find some details on it to satisfy the geek in me.


There's a lot of info on SWM tech out on the net. Basically what an SWM does is take the satellite signals and remodulate them into standardized "channels". Each DVR can access two such channels through a single connector; circuitry inside the DVR can then direct one channel to each tuner from the SWM-enabled satellite input, when an SWM is connected to the receiver.


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## marklyn

I think I understand, thanks for the concise explanation.
So then am I correct in assuming that a DVR receiver should be SWM ready? Like my HR23-700's should be ok for SWM, or no?


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## LameLefty

marklyn said:


> I think I understand, thanks for the concise explanation.
> So then am I correct in assuming that a DVR receiver should be SWM ready? Like my HR23-700's should be ok for SWM, or no?


Yes. Every HR2x, from the original HR20-700 up to the newest HR24-500, is SWM-ready. They all work the same in that regard.


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## Beerstalker

All HR2x HD-DVRs and H2x HD Receivers are ok for SWM (and some of the newer standard def stuff too).

Only the HR24 and H24 will have DECA built in, meaning you won't have to use the adapter box shown in the first post of this thread. That means you could get away with as little as 3 wires to hook these up. The power wire, HDMI cable out to the TV/AV Receiver, and one RG6 cable that would carry both satellite tuners and the DECA stream for Internet Access\Media Share\MRV.


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## evan_s

marklyn said:


> Yeah, I gathered I'd need a SWM switch, I just don't get how it works with one cable since I thought what is apparantly happening in the switch was happening in/at the receiver level.
> I'll try to find some details on it to satisfy the geek in me.


A slightly more technical explanation. The old legacy method would send all of the even or odd transponders from a specific set of locations based on the voltage sent down the line and the presence or lack of a 22khz tone. Essentially depending on what you were doing you were getting 1/4 of the possible transponder. Each transponder has a couple channels on it. The only way you can guarantee that you can record any 2 channels is having 2 cables that each select their 1/4 independently.

The SWM multiswitch takes each individual transponder and sends that down a SWiM channel that the receiver knows how to find. Since the SWiM channels only contain a single TP they are much smaller than the large blocks sent the old way they can fit 8 of them on a single line. This allows 8 different tuners to each request their own channel on a single cable.


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## NR4P

This comment in the first look is interesting.
"HR20-100’s require both Satellite inputs at the receiver to power the DECA, this
is expected to change in the near future though as the HR20- 100 will not supply
enough power from “Sat in 1” at this time to power the DECA unit. Once connected,
the DECA “Power” LED should flash to indicate it is booting up. The C.LINK LED
will then flash orange while it searches the house for a network, or until it finds
other DECAs."

I have a HR20-700 that won't work on my SWM. So I feed it via the WB68 in parallel. If I opt to change to DECA, I could take an idle HR20-100C to replace it but that hookup seems to be tentative. Or is there an extra splitter combiner for the HR20-100 included? 

Of course there's the alternative of of having Directv replace the HR20-700 on the service plan but then I go through the AM21 OTA issue again. I use OTA often.


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## Stuart Sweet

I think this thread has run its purpose and should be closed. NR4P, I think you need to call for a replacement on your HR20.


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