# Excruciatingly slow DVRs: a potential fix



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I have created a new thread so that my post can be more easily found.

The original thread: _All my receivers are excruciatingly slow_ can be found here.

DIRECTV has made some changes that should fix the slow DVR problem. I'd like for those of you still having this problem to do something so that we can prove or disprove that the fix works. If you are still having the slow DVR problem, please restart your DVR. You only need to do this once, and you only need to do this if you think you still have the slow DVR problem.

You can use one of the following two methods to restart your DVR:

(1) Open the access card door on the lower right front of the DVR and press the red button inside (RBR)

(2) Using your remote, choose {MENU} > {Parental, Fav's & Setup} > {System Setup} > {Reset} > {Restart Receiver} and then {DASH} to verify

--

Feel free to continue discussing this issue in this new thread.


----------



## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

I have seen the statement several times now that the HD GUI will speed things up. Will the GUI help with remote response time, channel change times and other overall speediness or just help while using the guide ?


----------



## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

My DVR has been excruciatingly slow lately. Ive tried several resets (none within the same half hour tho, I may need to try that soon), as well as doing the channel 1 -> red red blue blue yellow green NVRAM clearing code and while both fixes clear the problem up for very short periods, its always back very quickly. It takes anywhere from 10 to 45 seconds to change channels, the DVR often goes periods of up to 45 seconds before it responds to commands, scrolling through the recorded programs list is an exercize in patience sometimes, and god help me if I want to view the to do list.

I hope it gets fixed soon...


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Did you try a reset today? This is recent.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> Did you try a reset today? This is recent.


I take it that those of us who did resets when that advice was first given days ago need to do it again?


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jon J said:


> I take it that those of us who did resets when that advice was first given days ago need to do it again?


Yes.


----------



## Spicoli (Jun 7, 2006)

I deffinately will try this when I get home. I have done a couple of resets but nothing within the last week or so because it didn't help.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think what Mr. Brott is saying is that *within the last few hours,* some changes have been made that should help you, but that you need to reset after those changes have been made.


----------



## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

These changes would have been pushed to the machines? If so, would that update the software date & time?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think what Mr. Brott is saying is that *within the last few hours,* some changes have been made that should help you, but that you need to reset after those changes have been made.





HDJulie said:


> These changes would have been pushed to the machines? If so, would that update the software date & time?


I would guess these are in the data stream, as a reboot doesn't force a software update.


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

HDJulie said:


> These changes would have been pushed to the machines? If so, would that update the software date & time?


It's not related to any software updates. It's related to changes in the Guide Data stream. Try the reset as Doug advised.


----------



## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Right, I knew the reboot wasn't going to bring down data. 

I'll reboot the DVR's tonight. Can you do that from the iPad app? If not, I'll have to trudge up to the Man Cave to do my husband's .


----------



## rmduff (Jul 12, 2007)

Did a reboot and my HR21-700 was working great but it only lasted about 30 minutes. It is now back to super slow response from the remote. So it looks like the fix does not work for me.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks .. I'm trying to confirm, but looking at the firmware monitor, it appears if the HR21/22/23 will be getting a download later tonight - 0x4cc.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

Restarted my HR24 and no improvement. Still slow pulling up menus and changing channels. Same as last night when it took a turn for the worse. Instead of lagging, the playback is now more pixelated. Don't know if that's a longer or shorter lag than just skipping.

I'm starting to have more serious doubts that these software issues fried my hard drive. So unfortunate.


----------



## triple6sickness (Jul 14, 2011)

another great way to speed up the HD-DVRs is to turn off the scrolling effects
press menu <<parental favs<<system etup<<display<<preferences<<scrolling effects


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

bobfrapples said:


> I'm starting to have more serious doubts that these software issues fried my hard drive. So unfortunate.


Highly doubtful, if anything its just a coincidence.


----------



## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Well, I did a restart at about midnight central and after forty-five+ minutes, it seems to be noticeably quicker in the guide and list. I'll see how it is after ten or twelve hours.


----------



## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

I will reboot my HR21s tonight and post back what I observe. Thanks Doug.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Did a reboot last night. This morning my HR22-100 still shows 0x4a7 for software. No sign of 0x04cc. After powering up receiver menu and channel change froze up. This lasted for several minutes. After it cleared I started watching "The Man Who Knew Too Much" on Cinemax MoreMax. Then poof, lost all my premium channels and HD Extra Pack. Had to call DirecTV. They corrected the problem but was given no explanation as to why that happened. :shrug:


----------



## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> Did a reboot last night. This morning my HR22-100 still shows 0x4a7 for software. No sign of 0x04cc. After powering up receiver menu and channel change froze up. This lasted for several minutes. After it cleared I started watching "The Man Who Knew Too Much" on Cinemax MoreMax. Then poof, lost all my premium channels and HD Extra Pack. Had to call DirecTV. They corrected the problem but was given no explanation as to why that happened. :shrug:


I had to reauthorize all of my receivers this AM. Lost locals and premiums.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Rebooted my H20-100 last night. Things were worse after the reboot. Couldnt use the remote even to pull up the menu to restart again.

I used the front panel to restart from menu a second time and went to bed before it finished.

Early feedback - we seem to be going in the wrong direction unless there is a latent effect. Won't know until this weekend. I won't be home tonight to check on things.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It has been known for years that the first 6-12 hours or so after a download are sluggish .. 12-24 hours if you flush the cache .. This is unrelated to what you may have been experiencing earlier.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Did a reboot last night. This morning my HR22-100 still shows 0x4a7 for software. No sign of 0x04cc. After powering up receiver menu and channel change froze up. This lasted for several minutes. After it cleared I started watching "The Man Who Knew Too Much" on Cinemax MoreMax. Then poof, lost all my premium channels and HD Extra Pack. Had to call DirecTV. They corrected the problem but was given no explanation as to why that happened. :shrug:


Yeah, must have been a false alarm on 0x4cc .. Was definitely spooling yesterday afternoon with no other firmware available. I never received a confirmation on that one as it was late.

The hang/poof .. I suppose that that phenomenon may have been related to the "fix" .. especially since it happened to more than one person, but really, I don't know. Just guessing on that one.

Generally speaking, I was told things should be working as of yesterday .. Now we wait and see. If you restarted yesterday and are seeing the same slow behavior (not the normal HR21/22/23 slowness), then please post here.

Overall speed will be better later this year as noted by Michael White in an earlier announcement.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Doug, Maybe you can help with an aspect of this that is bothering me. A lot of the complaints of sluggishness appear to be centered on channel changes. 

The characteristics on my HR20-100 seem to be more related to the use of the remote. I clearly have better responsiveness using the front panel buttons where that is possible. Are this related in some way or might there be more than 1 problem here?

I don't want to go through all the grief of the channel sluggishness problem then find out I still have my issues and need to find a solution.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

PlanoBill said:


> The characteristics on my HR20-100 seem to be more related to the use of the remote. I clearly have better responsiveness using the front panel buttons where that is possible. Are this related in some way or might there be more than 1 problem here?


I'm not Doug lol, but if the front panel works better than the remote, this might suggest there is some interference with the remote.
Are you using the IR mode or the RF?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not Doug lol, but if the front panel works better than the remote, this might suggest there is some interference with the remote.
> Are you using the IR mode or the RF?


indeed, or even just weak batteries ..

If the TV is an LCD TV for example, turn the TV off and do some simple key presses to see if the light on the DVR flashes more "easily".


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

I have two remotes, both IR. One is the standard DirecTV remote. Cleaned the IR "window", replaced the batteries two weeks ago. The second is a harmony with rechargable batteries. It runs a bunch of things in addtion to the HR20. They all run fine with no problems. Just no evidence there is a problem with the remotes.

Also cleaned the IR window on the front panel of the HR 20. For some periods the remote runs great then all of a sudden it just stops working and then I wait for 10 - 15 minutes it starts working again. For example the 30 second skip will work 3 times in a row then just stop working. Other times it won't work and you keep pressing and after a maybe 30 seconds it works two or three times then stops again.

Same problem going through the menus. Pull up the play list scroll down two items then it stops and won't scoll anymore. I walk over to the HR20 and start using the front panel buttons and it responds OK. Sometimes, but not nearly as frequently as with the remote, the front panel will also not respond.

Failures appear to be random. Can't find a pattern with what or when we are doing things. Not saying there isn't one, just saying I can't figure it out if there is one.


----------



## mrmojo (Feb 11, 2008)

I did a RBR on my HR21-200 sometime after midnight early Thurs morning(before reading this thread) as the DVR was painfully slow. It has been working fine ever since. I will post if this changes.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Sorry, Just saw your comment about the TV. It is a plasma and the TV is yards away from the HR20 and on a different wall. Used to have an IR relay but took it out because it slowed things down and was not as reliable as I like.
I now point the remote at the TV to operate it and then at the DVR to operate it. My DVD player and AV controller are on the same wall as the DVR. They all respond very well to the harmony remote. Only use the DirecTV remote when I am having problems with the DirecTV DVR, such as the last two plus weeks.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Just to be clear, I have been running this way for years. No problems with any of the equipment until this situation.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

PlanoBill said:


> Just to be clear, I have been running this way for years. No problems with any of the equipment until this situation.


Just to narrow down this a bit "I would" change to RF with the DirecTV remote and see if there is a change or not. If it the same, I'd say you can rule out this being a remote issue, and any change from the remote & front panel was simply random.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

So I know how to go into setup and change the DVR. Is it just this one setting?
How do I change the remote to go RF?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mrmojo said:


> I did a RBR on my HR21-200 sometime after midnight early Thurs morning(before reading this thread) as the DVR was painfully slow. It has been working fine ever since. I will post if this changes.


You shouldn't have to reboot a second time ..


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

PlanoBill said:


> So I know how to go into setup and change the DVR. Is it just this one setting?
> How do I change the remote to go RF?


It is part of the setup, as you need to enter the codes that the screen prompts.
"Should be" fairly straight forward.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Just checked my HR22-100. Menu surfing is fast, no freezing or hesitating. Channel changing is between four and six seconds, quicker when using QuickTune and that's pretty good because I use Native mode. So far it's a improvement. Will check again later today and report back.


----------



## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

PlanoBill said:


> So I know how to go into setup and change the DVR. Is it just this one setting?
> How do I change the remote to go RF?


Instructions


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks Vin.


----------



## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

My hr23-700 now feels like it has a supercharger built in after yesterdays fix and reset. The big question is will it last or start slowing down with time.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It should last .. I'd certainly like to know if it doesn't. So far it seems the volume of folks with issues has dwindled and that (alone) is a good thing.


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

What a fix implemented? If so all I have to do is RBR and both my hr/24 will be fix?


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Ran my HR22-100 through the course again. Everything is working nicely.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I have created a new thread so that my post can be more easily found.
> 
> The original thread: _All my receivers are excruciatingly slow_ can be found here.
> 
> ...


This reboot fix was told us in the old thread about two weeks ago.

While my SLOWSDOWN are no longer ridiculously long frustrating events, I'm still getting intermittent SLOWDOWNs that causes me to channel tour my local stations instead of going to USA or TNT, etc.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> This reboot fix was told us in the old thread about two weeks ago.
> 
> While my SLOWSDOWN are no longer ridiculously long frustrating events, I'm still getting intermittent SLOWDOWNs that causes me to channel tour my local stations instead of going to USA or TNT, etc.


The "fix" was done after that .. If you haven't restarted your receiver in the last 24 hours, you should do so again, especially if you still have this problem.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> The "fix" was done after that .. If you haven't restarted your receiver in the last 24 hours, you should do so again, especially if you still have this problem.


So far no problems, in the last two days.

My last three event occurred this week between 10 PM & Midnight. Each lasting around five minutes.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> So far no problems, in the last two days.
> 
> My last three event occurred this week between 10 PM & Midnight. Each lasting around five minutes.


Look for continued success then .. Your observation is consistent with what when the fix was put in place.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I just did a reboot of my HR23-700 and it's much more responsive now. Thanks for the heads-up, Doug. :righton:


----------



## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

I have an HR20-700 and haven't watched TV since Wednesday night. Turned on the TV tonight, and all my HD channels were, sort of, "stuttering" with a subtle herky-jerkiness, not to mention taking forever to change channels. Came here to see if anything was up and saw this thread. I did the reboot. The "stuttering" has disappeared, but it's still taking forever to change channels.

Edit: changing channels seems to have improved over the past few minutes. We'll see how long it lasts.

I'm sure glad I ran into this thread, thanks!


----------



## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

I restarted my DVR last night. There didn't seem to be any immediate improvement, but I guess I should check this evening given the comment about 6-12 hours after download.


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I've restarted the dvrs twice since this was suggested. This morning, mornings seem to be the most frequent times for this issue, it took a about one minute for the guide to come up after I pressed the remote. Channel changes take about 15-20 seconds with the black screen until the change completes. So this is just a temporary fix if that. The only thing that gives a quick fix is to do that vram clear but of course that is only temporary as well. If I didn't have some hope that eventually DirecTv would get this fixed I think I would scrap these things but my patience is wearing thin.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

As I posted yesterday I rebooted my HR22-100. When rebooting completed remote commands were instant with fast channel changing and menu surfing. This continued throughout the day. Problem solved. WRONG. This morning I powered up my receiver to watch the morning news. I attempted to change the channel to CNN using QuickTune. No response. I typed in CNN's channel number (202) on the remote. Again, no response. Next I tried channel scrolling with the channel button on the remote. No dice. Ok, lets try menu. Nothing. After a few choice words I decided it was time to calm down and have another cup of coffee. After finishing my coffee I attempted to change the channel. This time I got the dreaded black screen which lasted over a minute. I pressed menu and had to wait forty seconds. Went to System Setup and performed a System Test. When the test completed I was greeted with "Diagnostic Code: 74-784 Dish Alignment Test Not Performed. The Dish Alignment Test was not performed". I ran a second test and got the same result. Time to call DirecTV. After explaining the situation I was told to go to Smart Search, type SENDREPORT and press the red button. This ran a special system test for DirecTV. When the test completed a code appeared which I had to give to the technician. After giving her the code she informed that she would give it to their engineers and stated they would download a fix. She stated she did not know if the fix would be administered on a individual basis or wide spread or when it would be administered. What the hell kind of answer is that? DirecTV needs to get it's act together. Ever since 0x4a6 was downloaded (not saying it was the cause but a starting point) people have been having mega problems with their receivers. We're told the "ultimate fix" is coming in October. That's over sixty days from now and doesn't cut it in my book. All the horns and whistles that have been added arn't worth a damn if you can't get them to work! For sixteen years I have been a very satisfied customer of DirecTV. That's all gone out the door lately with this continuing receiver malfunction I and others are experiencing. If this keeps up DirecTV can stop claiming how satisfied their customers are!


----------



## Spicoli (Jun 7, 2006)

I've only been able to test my main DVR which is an HR24 and the response time is a TON faster!  Now to test the other HR24 and all the R22's w/HD.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks for the input .. Keep letting me know if it continues to slow down. I'll make sure DIRECTV gets the information.


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

Doug,

Both my hr24/100 are still slow. Please add me to your list of reporting to Directv. I did a RBR on both but not fix here


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Boobie1998 said:


> Doug,
> 
> Both my hr24/100 are still slow. Please add me to your list of reporting to Directv. I did a RBR on both but not fix here


Could you define "slow" in your case? I've never seen this phenomenon on any of my 24s and the bulk of folks reporting this problem are on the 21 series.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

So my HR24/500 is still not behaving. Menu and channel changes have been just as slow the last couple of days as compared to the last couple of weeks. One additional observation though, while I cannot pause live TV or watch recorded material without glitches and lags, I found that watching really old stuff that I have saved is a little better. Stuff that I recorded last September works with only a little lag, whereas stuff I recorded in May (before everyone's recent complaints) would still not play well. 

Is this a sign of a dying hard drive? Would a dying hard drive effect menu performance or just glitchy/freezing playback?


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Could you define "slow" in your case? I've never seen this phenomenon on any of my 24s and the bulk of folks reporting this problem are on the 21 series.


Maybe I misunderstood, I though the 24 series was part of the guide data stream issue? I have scrolling off, native off, set only on 1080i resolution. Going thru any of the menus, paging down thru the guide is slow to react. The only thing that seems to be fine is channel changing is 3-4 seconds which to me i think that's fine.


----------



## WLVRYN (Jan 25, 2007)

I have been having problems with my HR21-700 for the last week or so. Picture freezes and unfreezes, channel changes and menu/guide actions take forever. Done a number of RBRs over the last few days, including this morning and still having problems. Doesnt matter whether I am watching ESPN or a local, or something that was recorded.


----------



## kiknwing (Jun 24, 2009)

My HR22-100 is back to normal. Never did notice a slow down on the HR24-500.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> As I posted yesterday I rebooted my HR22-100. When rebooting completed remote commands were instant with fast channel changing and menu surfing. This continued throughout the day. Problem solved. WRONG. This morning I powered up my receiver to watch the morning news. I attempted to change the channel to CNN using QuickTune. No response. I typed in CNN's channel number (202) on the remote. Again, no response. Next I tried channel scrolling with the channel button on the remote. No dice. Ok, lets try menu. Nothing. After a few choice words I decided it was time to calm down and have another cup of coffee. After finishing my coffee I attempted to change the channel. This time I got the dreaded black screen which lasted over a minute. I pressed menu and had to wait forty seconds. Went to System Setup and performed a System Test. When the test completed I was greeted with "Diagnostic Code: 74-784 Dish Alignment Test Not Performed. The Dish Alignment Test was not performed". I ran a second test and got the same result. Time to call DirecTV. After explaining the situation I was told to go to Smart Search, type SENDREPORT and press the red button. This ran a special system test for DirecTV. When the test completed a code appeared which I had to give to the technician. After giving her the code she informed that she would give it to their engineers and stated they would download a fix. She stated she did not know if the fix would be administered on a individual basis or wide spread or when it would be administered. What the hell kind of answer is that? DirecTV needs to get it's act together. Ever since 0x4a6 was downloaded (not saying it was the cause but a starting point) people have been having mega problems with their receivers. We're told the "ultimate fix" is coming in October. That's over sixty days from now and doesn't cut it in my book. All the horns and whistles that have been added arn't worth a damn if you can't get them to work! For sixteen years I have been a very satisfied customer of DirecTV. That's all gone out the door lately with this continuing receiver malfunction I and others are experiencing. If this keeps up DirecTV can stop claiming how satisfied their customers are!


Sarcasm mode on!.:rant:

All the horns and whistles that have been added, with their gee wiz golly(ness)

And you get upset when basic features don't work right? Ignore it and rejoice on all the cool features that have been added.

Sarcasm mode off!:backtotop

In all seriousness now, I can see that they have fallen down on the job of ensuring basic features work properly and speedily.

My basic guess is that all these gee whiz features have overloaded the poor little processor and memory in the DVRs.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobfrapples said:


> So my HR24/500 is still not behaving. Menu and channel changes have been just as slow the last couple of days as compared to the last couple of weeks. One additional observation though, while I cannot pause live TV or watch recorded material without glitches and lags, I found that watching really old stuff that I have saved is a little better. Stuff that I recorded last September works with only a little lag, whereas stuff I recorded in May (before everyone's recent complaints) would still not play well.
> 
> Is this a sign of a dying hard drive? Would a dying hard drive effect menu performance or just glitchy/freezing playback?


You should run the system test to see if that identifies anything. Perhaps a dish alignment issue.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Boobie1998 said:


> Maybe I misunderstood, I though the 24 series was part of the guide data stream issue? I have scrolling off, native off, set only on 1080i resolution. Going thru any of the menus, paging down thru the guide is slow to react. The only thing that seems to be fine is channel changing is 3-4 seconds which to me i think that's fine.


the 3-4 second channel change is probably about as good as it will get if it's through HDMI and in HD. At least that's from my observation over time. Is the light on the front of the DVR blinking when you press the remote or does it lag as well?

When bouncing through the menus is it really bad or more slightly annoying?

Like I said, I use all 24s and I don't see this issue, but I want to make sure that what I think is fine is not the same thing as you calling it slow.


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

TBoneit said:


> Sarcasm mode on!.:rant:
> 
> All the horns and whistles that have been added, with their gee wiz golly(ness)
> 
> ...


Am I missing something? "All the new features added" What features, the only thing that I know is new is the ability to search for Youtube and I have a Video Player and BluRay Player that do a much better job.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

WLVRYN said:


> I have been having problems with my HR21-700 for the last week or so. Picture freezes and unfreezes, channel changes and menu/guide actions take forever. Done a number of RBRs over the last few days, including this morning and still having problems. Doesnt matter whether I am watching ESPN or a local, or something that was recorded.


Could you run the system test? This may or may not give you information. In your case, it really sounds like this might be an HDD issue. If you have some free time, you could try the Built In Self Test:

To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Burnerbum said:


> Am I missing something? "All the new features added" What features, the only thing that I know is new is the ability to search for Youtube and I have a Video Player and BluRay Player that do a much better job.


Most of the recent work has been in preparation for the biggest golly gee whiz feature that pretty much everyone has been clamoring for for a few years now.

But to answer the original question .. Yes, there have been reports of "slow" DVRs recently. Most of the issues affecting these folks have been fixed (it was more than one). The problem is not directly related to the firmware, so regardless of golly gee whiz issues, this problem would have still entered the picture.

I'm trying to determine if there are more issues beyond those that were causing a lot of chatter. Since the fix, the chatter has subsided significantly - but there are still a few that are having some issues as you can see.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> This reboot fix was told us in the old thread about two weeks ago.
> 
> While my SLOWSDOWN are no longer ridiculously long frustrating events, I'm still getting intermittent SLOWDOWNs that causes me to channel tour my local stations instead of going to USA or TNT, etc.


A reboot about two weeks ago didn't help me, but the one yesterday seems to have resolved the channel changing delay -- at least, so far.


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

My HR21/100 is responding better to inputs. First command when viewing after overnight is still slow (20 seconds) then it does improve. 
Just RBR'd and 1st command took 2 minutes. 
Still running 0x4a7. 
Scrolling off, recording tips off. 
Able to use HD. 
I'll report back tomorrow.
Skippy


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

billsharpe said:


> A reboot about two weeks ago didn't help me, but the one yesterday seems to have resolved the channel changing delay -- at least, so far.


Since the report of the latest fix, about three days ago, I have had no SLOWDOWNS on my three HR21-100s.

And I have not Reset all three. I only rebooted two -- one on the NR 0x4a7 and one on the latest CE. The remaining one on the CE was not touched.

The longest I've gone in the recent SLOWDOWN issue without an event has been about six days. So I'm halfway thru.


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> the 3-4 second channel change is probably about as good as it will get if it's through HDMI and in HD. At least that's from my observation over time. Is the light on the front of the DVR blinking when you press the remote or does it lag as well?
> 
> When bouncing through the menus is it really bad or more slightly annoying?
> 
> Like I said, I use all 24s and I don't see this issue, but I want to make sure that what I think is fine is not the same thing as you calling it slow.


Doug,

The light in front of the box blink when i press the remote. Bouncing through the menu is really bad it take a while to navigate around. There's lagging between function and going to another function.


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> Most of the recent work has been in preparation for the biggest golly gee whiz feature that pretty much everyone has been clamoring for for a few years now.


And what is that? I am new to the forum so I haven't read anything about it.


----------



## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

LI-SVT said:


> I will reboot my HR21s tonight and post back what I observe. Thanks Doug.


Both HR21s are now acting normal. This is about 24 hours after reboot.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Burnerbum said:


> And what is that? I am new to the forum so I haven't read anything about it.


HD UI due later this year .. CEO of DIRECTV said October but was more of a time frame than a specific announcement. In other words, it could be a little later than that although October is definitely possible.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Boobie1998 said:


> Doug,
> 
> The light in front of the box blink when i press the remote. Bouncing through the menu is really bad it take a while to navigate around. There's lagging between function and going to another function.


press & hold {INFO} and the "Run system Test" .. Just to verify that the boxes think that they are working properly. I definitely do not see the lag you are talking about and your issue seems to be a bit different than what others have reported (similar yes, but seems different).


----------



## Ed-Williams (Sep 8, 2006)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172657 

+ Processing power = HR-24 0r Tivo
......anything else is just cheap talking

Regards,
Ed


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Ed-Williams said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172657
> 
> + Processing power = HR-24 0r Tivo
> ......anything else is just cheap talking
> ...


You have no idea what this tread is about, do you?


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

"Doug Brott" said:


> press & hold {INFO} and the "Run system Test" .. Just to verify that the boxes think that they are working properly. I definitely do not see the lag you are talking about and your issue seems to be a bit different than what others have reported (similar yes, but seems different).


It came up "all system ok" here I though I was part of this guide data stream issue. What did software version 0x4a8 fix? The channel change lag? If I'm not part of the guide data issue Doug what do you suggest I do next?

Thanks


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

Ed-Williams said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172657
> 
> + Processing power = HR-24 0r Tivo
> ......anything else is just cheap talking
> ...


What do you mean? That people should upgrade to the HR24?

My HR24 has been affected these few weeks just the same.


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

What seems to be my usual experience is that every morning this extreme slowness occurs. This morning again I switched the tv and dvr on and immediately went to channel one to do that nvram clear. Of course it took about 20 seconds or so to go to channel one but once I performed that red, red, blue, blue, etc. thing the following channel changes were normal as were the other functions. 

This usually lasts the entire day but tomorrow morning I'm certain the same thing will occur as it has every other morning. It seems to me that if this nvram clearing rectifies the issue, at least for the day, that a software update should easily be able to take care of this. So what's the hold up?


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I powered up my HR22-100 this morning and all systems are go. Yesterday's problems are gone so I guess they downloaded a fix. Time will tell.


----------



## mrmojo (Feb 11, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> You shouldn't have to reboot a second time ..


I don't plan to as it is still working great!


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

SkippyJasper said:


> My HR21/100 is responding better to inputs. First command when viewing after overnight is still slow (20 seconds) then it does improve.
> Just RBR'd and 1st command took 2 minutes.
> Still running 0x4a7.
> Scrolling off, recording tips off.
> ...


Unit was 'on' all night. First command took two minutes. Next ones, while slow, changed channels.
I set the DVR to record British Open and went to do outside things.

Came back around Noon and the machine seemed frozen to remote or front panel commands. RBR didn't help so I unplugged fo 5 minutes or so.

First command was two minutes again, then things seemed as before, slow but channels change. Tried playing the British Open, but it hesitates. Oddly a recording made a couple of days ago seems almost normal.

Still running 0x4a7. 
Scrolling off, recording tips off. 
Able to use HD.

I notice when using the Guide, there is a timing delay between moving the cursor to a new channel and when the description of that channel is displayed. Once both are in sync, the cursor can be moved again.

I'll repeat a previous report that I've run the diagnostics including the surface scan and all reports OK.

For now this unit is only suitable for watching live TV. The adjustments made by DTV seem to have had some usefulness.

Skippy


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I've just taken to automatically doing the nvram clear when I start watching tv. That's the easiest thing to do to correct the problem for that day. Still waiting on a fix though.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pappasbike said:


> What seems to be my usual experience is that every morning this extreme slowness occurs. This morning again I switched the tv and dvr on and immediately went to channel one to do that nvram clear. Of course it took about 20 seconds or so to go to channel one but once I performed that red, red, blue, blue, etc. thing the following channel changes were normal as were the other functions.
> 
> This usually lasts the entire day but tomorrow morning I'm certain the same thing will occur as it has every other morning. It seems to me that if this nvram clearing rectifies the issue, at least for the day, that a software update should easily be able to take care of this. So what's the hold up?


Channel 1 is an interactive channel .. I'm not sure that it doesn't take 20 seconds to activate that channel under normal circumstances.


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Channel 1 is an interactive channel .. I'm not sure that it doesn't take 20 seconds to activate that channel under normal circumstances.


You're right but just getting the guide to come up takes about a minute each morning until I do that nvram clear then everything seems to work ok for the rest of the day.

I'm not sure what it is about mornings, I'm in Maryland, that has anything to do with this but in the past I would see this every morning. Now as I said the first thing I do is go to that nvram clear. It's the only thing that keeps me from tossing this thing. I don't know who discovered this but bless him or her. So far it always seems to work for me.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

Posts are way down. That should be a good sign. (Or a really bad one).

My HR20 ran fine all weekend after I restarted late Thursday night.
Flipping through the guide is a lot faster than it was before this problem occured. Everything else seemed normal.

Recorded the Women's World Cup. Unfortunately, even with the extension, didn't get the penalty kicks. Bummed to learn that they lost. They had an incredible number of near misses. Most I have ever seen in a soccer match, and I have watch many.

Back on topic.
Hopefully the root problem has been fixed.

Thanks for all your help Doug.

Knock on wood. Hoping I don't go home tonight and find the problems have returned.


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

HR23 operating normally for two days now, hope it continues.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Two days after reporting problem to DirecTV my HR22-100 continues to run normally.


----------



## Inches (Jan 5, 2005)

Friday night did the surface disk diagnostic and the disk drive came up with no errors, so the drive is good. The guide is still sluggish in coming up and channel changes, especially OTA, are 5 to 10 seconds on a good day.


----------



## BarkingGhost (Dec 29, 2007)

I', reiterating why issue. This is with an HR21-200 and a forum recommended Western Digital drive and Thermaltake docking station. Before doing anything suggested in this thread, the observation was all remote and front panel commands took 30-60 seconds. Also, the LED disk activity indicator on the docking station is running heavy most of the time (even if I am not recording anything or watching a recording.

I have since push the little red button and instead of 30-60 seconds it is 10-20 seconds. Some improvement. Last night I pulled the power cords from both the DVR and external docking station for and hour. First I plugged the drive back in and about ten minutes later the DVR. Still having 10-20 seconds for DVR to respond to any kind of remote/FP input.

The only thing that seems to interrupt the heavy dick activity is when I run a system test and that only finds a no dial tone (as expected). What else should I be trying?


----------



## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

"BarkingGhost" said:


> I', reiterating why issue. This is with an HR21-200 and a forum recommended Western Digital drive and Thermaltake docking station. Before doing anything suggested in this thread, the observation was all remote and front panel commands took 30-60 seconds. Also, the LED disk activity indicator on the docking station is running heavy most of the time (even if I am not recording anything or watching a recording.
> 
> I have since push the little red button and instead of 30-60 seconds it is 10-20 seconds. Some improvement. Last night I pulled the power cords from both the DVR and external docking station for and hour. First I plugged the drive back in and about ten minutes later the DVR. Still having 10-20 seconds for DVR to respond to any kind of remote/FP input.
> 
> The only thing that seems to interrupt the heavy dick activity is when I run a system test and that only finds a no dial tone (as expected). What else should I be trying?


There is heavy disk activity 24/7 due to the live buffer. This occurs even when the receiver is in standby.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

BarkingGhost said:


> I', reiterating why issue. This is with an HR21-200 and a forum recommended Western Digital drive and Thermaltake docking station. Before doing anything suggested in this thread, the observation was all remote and front panel commands took 30-60 seconds. Also, the LED disk activity indicator on the docking station is running heavy most of the time (even if I am not recording anything or watching a recording.
> 
> I have since push the little red button and instead of 30-60 seconds it is 10-20 seconds. Some improvement. Last night I pulled the power cords from both the DVR and external docking station for and hour. First I plugged the drive back in and about ten minutes later the DVR. Still having 10-20 seconds for DVR to respond to any kind of remote/FP input.
> 
> The only thing that seems to interrupt the heavy dick activity is when I run a system test and that only finds a no dial tone (as expected). What else should I be trying?


Check the spelling in the last paragraph. You might want to change to "heavy disc activity" instead of what you spelled. :lol:


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Check the spelling in the last paragraph. You might want to change to "heavy disc activity" instead of what you spelled. :lol:


Well, stopping to run a system test would interupt it I imagine!:lol:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Inches said:


> Friday night did the surface disk diagnostic and the disk drive came up with no errors, so the drive is good. The guide is still sluggish in coming up and channel changes, especially OTA, are 5 to 10 seconds on a good day.


OK, but is that different than it was 3 months ago? Some would argue that it was always slow, so I'm asking is what you are seeing "normal slow" or "Excruciating slow?" As another poster mentioned, the slow down in posts is a good indication that the problem associated with this particular issue have been lessened significantly.

In other words, I wonder if some of the other issues are separate problems not related to this initial one.


----------



## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Well I did the restart and now i cant connect to "network services" gives me a 701 error. I can connect to the internet fine. VOD downloads fine too. I also did a vram flash clear before i restarted. ugh! Network services/apps were running fine until i did all this. What does the <701> message mean when trying to connect to network services?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I got home yesterday, after a week at the beach reading this thread and the other one and immediately restarted all my HRs. Don't have a clue whether any were affected by the slowdowns, I know I didn't have any problems before I left, but I figured if Doug made such a strong point about doing it, I'd just do it. Don't have an problems now that I can see, still don't know if I ever had the problems.

Rich


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Drucifer said:


> Since the report of the latest fix, about three days ago, I have had no SLOWDOWNS on my three HR21-100s.
> 
> And I have not Reset all three. I only rebooted two -- one on the NR 0x4a7 and one on the latest CE. The remaining *one on the CE was not touched*.
> 
> The longest I've gone in the recent SLOWDOWN issue without an event has been about six days. So I'm halfway thru.


Well I just had a short blackout, which ended my experiment to see if a SLOWDOWN would occurred on my HR21-100 that I didn't reboot.

Since the latest fix, I have had no major SLOWDOWNs on any of my five receivers.


----------



## BarkingGhost (Dec 29, 2007)

Kevin F said:


> There is heavy disk activity 24/7 due to the live buffer. This occurs even when the receiver is in standby.


This makes no sense at all. Unless the Live buffer is brand spanking new AND we can all expect remotes and FP to be almost useless for 10-20 all the time then the hardware is a complete failure. Also, why wouldn't this be seen on the other HR21 DVR as well? They are running the same firmware, have had the same resets, and both use external hard drive storage solutions.

Exactly what is a live buffer? When was this implemented? I had three years of this problem not existing and since March it has been a problem.


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

Checked the HR20 and it has the **xaa version. Runs very nicely.

On the other hand, the Hr21 is still unhappy. I tried watching a recently recorded program, but the hesitation and freezing made it unwatchable. The menu/guide is noticeably better, but compared to the HR20 unit there's miles to go before it will compare. 

The 21 is still running the 0x7 software. 

Skippy


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

I wanted to wait a few days before I post to make sure the changes I made last.

I have the HR22/100
I have 0x4a7 software installed.

A few days ago I did a reboot, 

I turned off Scrolling Effects. (I still don't know what that does), this made a big difference in bringing up the guide and scrolling through the pages.

I also set my TV Resolutions to 1080i and 1080p only. This really improved the time it takes to go from a HD channel to a SD channel. I haven't noticed any difference in the SD picture. 2 seconds delay vs 6-8 seconds before with 480i/p turned on.

So as of now I am getting a decent response time.

I do occasionally get sound drop outs but I will have to start logging it to see if it is on a certain station. Right now I can't say, it doesn't happen that frequent.

Also, when watching HD channels, Starz, HBO, etc. my picture sometimes breaks up. This has happened since the dish was installed 1 1/2 years ago. Everytime I call DirecTV they have me run the tests and they all pass. This happens in perfectly clear weather and no trees in the way. 

Is there any way to find out what channels use what satellite. It would be really handy if I could go in and check the signal quality if I knew what satellite to look for on each channel.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Burnerbum said:


> I turned off Scrolling Effects. (I still don't know what that does), this made a big difference in bringing up the guide and scrolling through the pages.


I've always wondered what that did too. I always shut it off and my scrolling works OK......:nono2:

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I've always wondered what that did too. I always shut it off and my scrolling works OK......:nono2:
> 
> Rich


When in the guide and using page up/down, with scrolling off the next page "simply appears". With scrolling on, you see the page move up/down.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> When in the guide and using page up/down, with scrolling off the next page "simply appears". With scrolling on, you see the page move up/down.


Just tried it and I see what you mean. I think I'll just leave it off. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

rich584 said:


> Just tried it and I see what you mean. I think I'll just leave it off. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


Me too, when I want to go to the next page I don't care to see it scroll, I just want to get to the next page period.


----------



## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

Have an HR23-700 and RC65RB remote. I first reported the sluggish response back in May. Did troubleshooting with D* at that time, but came up empty. I also reported "stutters," that is, where you press a number key once on the remote but you get two of that number on the TV. Both problems persist.

Things are so bad, that it sometimes takes me from 45 minutes to an hour to scroll through the Cinema "All" list. Sometimes I have to control things from the front panel of the receiver.

Although I did a reset last week -- resulting in no behavior change -- I just did one again. I also changed the batteries, cleaned the RF windows on the unit and the remote, and cleared the vram.

Guess I'll see what happens tonight, when I start watching programs.

But I have a question: Since this seems to be a wide-spread problem, is there a way to tell if the RF receiver on the unit is at fault?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kram said:



> Have an HR23-700 and RC65RB remote. I first reported the sluggish response back in May. Did troubleshooting with D* at that time, but came up empty. I also reported "stutters," that is, where you press a number key once on the remote but you get two of that number on the TV. Both problems persist.
> 
> Things are so bad, that it sometimes takes me from 45 minutes to an hour to scroll through the Cinema "All" list. Sometimes I have to control things from the front panel of the receiver.
> 
> ...


I had one 23 and had those same problems with the remote. It had to be the IR/RF receiver on the 23. I had to stand a foot away from the 23 to get it to accept remote commands. Not the best DVR that D* has put out.

Rich


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

kram said:


> Have an HR23-700 and RC65RB remote. I first reported the sluggish response back in May. Did troubleshooting with D* at that time, but came up empty. I also reported "stutters," that is, where you press a number key once on the remote but you get two of that number on the TV. Both problems persist.


I had this problem with my HR22 when I first got it. DirecTV sent me a new remote but the problem continued. I changed from RF to IR and that worked. Since then I have changed back to RF and it seems to be ok.

Try reprogramming your remote and see of that helps. That problem is really bad. Press the number 2 and get 22 etc. Did it with any key input, It's almost impossible to use it.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I had one 23 and had those same problems with the remote. It had to be the IR/RF receiver on the 23. I had to stand a foot away from the 23 to get it to accept remote commands. Not the best DVR that D* has put out.
> 
> Rich


What's funny is when I had and HR23-700 it worked mostly fine .. In fact, I shot a video (still on YouTube somewhere) and after I posted it, I got comments like: "I wish my HR23-700 was that fast." So, I guess it's not all HR23-700s.

I've now switched to all HR24s (one of each model).


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

kram said:


> Guess I'll see what happens tonight, when I start watching programs.


Yeah, check it out and report back .. Scrolling through lists has never been something The Flash would be proud of. This should improve later this year with the next major release.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> What's funny is when I had and HR23-700 it worked mostly fine .. In fact, I shot a video (still on YouTube somewhere) and after I posted it, I got comments like: "I wish my HR23-700 was that fast." So, I guess it's not all HR23-700s.
> 
> I've now switched to all HR24s (one of each model).


I wouldn't think it's all of them either. But, some of them do seem to have that problem. Oddly, I had the same problem with a 22-100 in the same place as the 23 that replaced it. Now I have a 500 there and it's fine, as was the 20-700 that I had in the same place before I got the 500.

Rich


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

I have a question and if it's out of line let me know.
Is is possible and legal to upgrade the internal Hard Drive of the HR22?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

BarkingGhost said:


> This makes no sense at all. Unless the Live buffer is brand spanking new AND we can all expect remotes and FP to be almost useless for 10-20 all the time then the hardware is a complete failure. Also, why wouldn't this be seen on the other HR21 DVR as well? They are running the same firmware, have had the same resets, and both use external hard drive storage solutions.
> 
> Exactly what is a live buffer? When was this implemented? I had three years of this problem not existing and since March it has been a problem.


The live buffer is what allows you to rewind live TV if the tuner has been on that channe and that works even if you just turned everything on, allowing you to go back up to 30 minutes.


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Burnerbum said:


> I have a question and if it's out of line let me know.
> Is is possible and legal to upgrade the internal Hard Drive of the HR22?


Possible? Yes.
Legal? Well, it violates DirecTV's lease terms & conditions. Of course, you can do whatever you want if you actually OWN the DVR, but few are owned.


----------



## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Burnerbum said:


> I have a question and if it's out of line let me know.
> Is is possible and legal to upgrade the internal Hard Drive of the HR22?


It is against the terms of service to open up a leased receiver. If you own the unit, which is rare, you can upgrade the disk. Your best bet is to add an external drive, which is supported by DirecTV. Check here. You just need an eSata drive and an enclosure.


----------



## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> The live buffer is what allows you to rewind live TV if the tuner has been on that channe and that works even if you just turned everything on, allowing you to go back up to 30 minutes.


90 minutes.....on each tuner.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Groundhog45 said:


> It is against the terms of service to open up a leased receiver. If you own the unit, which is rare, you can upgrade the disk. Your best bet is to add an external drive, which is supported by DirecTV. Check here. You just need an eSata drive and an enclosure.


eSata is not really supported by D* either, but it is the lesser of two evils.


----------



## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

My HR20-700 is responding faster now, as is the R16 at my mother's house.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Groundhog45 said:


> It is against the terms of service to open up a leased receiver. If you own the unit, which is rare, you can upgrade the disk. Your best bet is to add an external drive, which is supported by DirecTV. Check here. You just need an eSata drive and an enclosure.


There are no external HDDs or external devices "supported" by D*. There were two that were "suggested", but none that are/were supported.

Rich


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

So I called D yesterday to complain for myself. I told the tech support lady of my channel change and menu slowness, and she told me the usual...to turn native and scrolling off. We also checked the satellite reception, which was fine. She also said that I should delete as much as I can from my hard drive because I usually only have 5% free and let stuff self-delete as new shows are recorded. I've never heard of that, but went along with it, trying to delete some stuff while on the phone. Lo and behold, the slowness prevented me from deleting more than 2 shows. She recommended a restart, and we got to chat for the next 45 minutes while it came back up. 

She started out confident that she's used to waiting awkwardly on the phone with the customer while waiting for the DVR to come back up, but then later she began to realize what I was talking about. The self-check screen took 20 minutes, and total time took 45 minutes. By the time it came back up, she admitted that it wasn't normal and started the order to get me a replacement HR24. 

She couldn't waive the S&H fee, but i will call back to try to get some monthly credit because I basically haven't been able to watch TV this entire month.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

What model receiver is it? Did they tell you that you were getting a HR24?


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

I asked about the model because the order only states HD DVR. She said that it will be an HR24 because they usually send the same model out as the broken one. We'll see. It doesn't make sense to downgrade me. It's one thing when people are looking to upgrade a broken HR21 with an HR24, but they better not give me an older refurbished model in exchange for my HR24 that I got new out of the box. 

I forgot to mention that she wasn't aware of any rise in complaints in channel changing slowness, etc. nor did we actually verify that I had a failing HDD. She based the need for a replacement on the fact that it took 45 minutes to reboot.


----------



## zductive (Sep 15, 2008)

HR21-100 - for the past week, I haven't been able to use my Directv account. I can press guide with either of two remote controls and nothing happens. If I do a red button reboot, the receiver seems to work normally for a couple hours. After I come home, no response. 

What should I say to the service techs? Should I wait for a software fix or should I press for a different receiver?

Pressing the buttons on the front of the receiver don't seem to do anything when the receiver doesn't respond to the remote.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

I was pretty up front with the tech. My goal wasn't to get a new receiver because I like having a new HR24 and I wanted to keep the programs I had saved. But seeing how complaints have died down, I didn't want to wait any longer. I'm still keeping an eye out for new resolutions while the replacement receiver is in the mail. 

Just such an unfortunate coincidence that this round of software/guide issues also killed my receiver. I got an error 70 in the surface scan. It worked flawlessly until late June, specifically while watching the hours and hours of Wimbledon. I think the 6 hour blocks of Wimbledon was too much for the receivers to buffer and handle.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

zductive, I think you may have a case for getting a new receiver. Tell them exactly what you posted here, be gentle and reasonable, and hopefully they'll send you a new one.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

zductive said:


> HR21-100 - for the past week, I haven't been able to use my Directv account. I can press guide with either of two remote controls and nothing happens. If I do a red button reboot, the receiver seems to work normally for a couple hours. After I come home, no response.
> 
> What should I say to the service techs? Should I wait for a software fix or should I press for a different receiver?
> 
> Pressing the buttons on the front of the receiver don't seem to do anything when the receiver doesn't respond to the remote.


Yup, things should be working now and most people seem to be doing fine. I think we are now seeing the normal churn of issues so it is likely you are having a problem different than what this thread is about.


----------



## zductive (Sep 15, 2008)

Guess that the standard response from Direct tech support is for the user to have to reset the receiver back to factory settings... Guess that I can see in the morning whether that fixed the problem.

Well, it could help couldn't it.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

zductive said:


> Guess that the standard response from Direct tech support is for the user to have to reset the receiver back to factory settings... Guess that I can see in the morning whether that fixed the problem.
> 
> Well, it could help couldn't it.


If you haven't done that yet, you may want to consider the surface scan test. If you have a bad HDD, a reset to factory won't really solve the problem in the long run .. OK, let me take that back. There is actually one case in which it will help. But normally it won't if the HDD isn't performing properly to begin with.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

So wow, another reason why living in LA is awesome. I forgot that D* HQ is is El Segundo when I called the call center yesterday. My new HR24-500 is here. Brand new, production date 2/2011 arrived at my door less than 24 hours after I hung up with them yesterday. I'm reactivated and running fine again. Now I get to break it in by reprogramming all my season passes. Thanks for everyone's help these few weeks.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobfrapples said:


> So wow, another reason why living in LA is awesome. I forgot that D* HQ is is El Segundo when I called the call center yesterday. My new HR24-500 is here. Brand new, production date 2/2011 arrived at my door less than 24 hours after I hung up with them yesterday. I'm reactivated and running fine again. Now I get to break it in by reprogramming all my season passes. Thanks for everyone's help these few weeks.


Let us know, but I suspect it will be running a heck of a lot faster than the previous one. HDD issues are no fun.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

No doubt. It's a lot faster than the previous one. Back to normal now. I never thought it was slow, so this is fine. Overall a satisifed customer.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

bobfrapples said:


> No doubt. It's a lot faster than the previous one. Back to normal now. I never thought it was slow, so this is fine. Overall a satisifed customer.


Glad to hear that this one is working properly.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> Yup, things should be working now and most people seem to be doing fine.


I believe you are correct. Excruciating slowness seems to have returned to normal slowness.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jon J said:


> I believe you are correct. Excruciating slowness seems to have returned to normal slowness.


I know you meant this to be somewhat derogatory, and that's fine, but the fact remains that most people are OK with this speed. The even better news is that it will get faster later this year.


----------



## PlanoBill (Mar 30, 2008)

I have posted several times before on this thread.

I rebooted last Thursday night as recommended, and after some intial slowness the situation returned to normal and it worked fine until last night.

All of a sudden, the same slowness, balkiness issues returned. Intermittently the skip would or wouldn't work, the guide would or wouldn't come up, etc.

No problems changing channels, and again I was able to proceed through the menus using the front panel buttons.

I started a reset, read a magazine and went to bed. We will see tonight if that resolved the new issues. Even if it has, it appears that he current fix may be temporary.


----------



## bengalfan01 (Jul 21, 2011)

I rebooted mine using the Directv remote on my Driod G2X. They seem noticebly faster (I did this last week). I can't wait until this "Later this year" you speak of gets here.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> I know you meant this to be somewhat derogatory...


Actually, I meant exactly what I wrote.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jon J said:


> Actually, I meant exactly what I wrote.


OK .. The wink smilie seemed to indicate otherwise. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## garygaryj (Dec 28, 2007)

Jon J said:


> Excruciating slowness seems to have returned to normal slowness.


The normal D*TV menu slowness was one of the reasons I left DirecTV after probably 15 years of service. I went to DISH, where the 922 menu is blazingly fast, by comparison.

I also left due to the lack of many of the "normal" National TV channels that DirecTV has resisted in upgrading to HD, like AMC, TCM, BBCA, and E!. There are many others as well. There are a few channels D*TV has that DISH doesn't, and more focus on sports, but mostly I don't miss it. So far, I'm happy there. And I pay much less per month.

Please don't misinterpret me - I'm not sour grapes here. I hated leaving. But D*TV has the subscriber base and $$$ income that it should be able to afford the speed and channel improvements you would expect for premium monthly payments. Good luck.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. The wink smilie seemed to indicate otherwise. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Didn't intend it to be "derogatory" (your term), simply a statement of fact. Response to some commands has often been the subject of conversation here.  (Not derogatory smilie.)


----------



## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

garygaryj said:


> The normal D*TV menu slowness was one of the reasons I left DirecTV after probably 15 years of service. I went to DISH, where the 922 menu is blazingly fast, by comparison.
> 
> I also left due to the lack of many of the "normal" National TV channels that DirecTV has resisted in upgrading to HD, like AMC, TCM, BBCA, and E!. There are many others as well. There are a few channels D*TV has that DISH doesn't, and more focus on sports, but mostly I don't miss it. So far, I'm happy there. And I pay much less per month.
> 
> Please don't misinterpret me - I'm not sour grapes here. I hated leaving. But D*TV has the subscriber base and $$$ income that it should be able to afford the speed and channel improvements you would expect for premium monthly payments. Good luck.


I don't believe $$ has ever been the issue with D*. It's always, deny there is a problem, it's your equipment only, send on a wild goose chase, after wild goose chase finally admit there is a problem, version upgrade, problem worse, then finally "It depends on what the word "slow" is.


----------



## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> The even better news is that it will get faster later this year.


Doug, aren't you counting the chickens a little early?? This remains to be seen. I'd like to be as overly optimistic as you, but past promises of faster speeds with software updates over the years has been broken many times in my opinion. A person could compile a huge book on the countless number of threads related to the slowness of the HR20, 21, 22 and 23's. I've had all the models at one time or another and they all perform with the same relative slowness. I can't speak about the HR24 because I've never had one.

The slowness is tolerable for me and many others, but should have been a lot better from the beginning. Directv has had 3+ years to improve the speed of these other HD DVR's and have failed so far. The software updates have only added features and fixed issues, but has done little to improve speed with these models. Up to this point, the answer is to get a HR24, but why should they have to?

The blame can be put on the programmers, poor hardware design or a combination of both. I really don't care who's at fault, it just needs to get fixed once and for all.

After this latest slowdown fiasco, I'm not very optimistic and remain skeptical about the new GUI and speed. I'll believe it when I see it......


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I know you meant this to be somewhat derogatory, and that's fine, but the fact remains that most people are OK with this speed. The even better news is that it will get faster later this year.


Well there is still that first turn on slowness to change the channel that's still annoying to some - namely me.

How annoy does it make me, depends on the day I'm having. If things have already been bad, adding this little pet peeve to the list doesn't make me feel better. Really, changing the channel shouldn't be a chore.


----------



## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

The only reason this continues is the lack of competition in the market. Seriously, would anyone put up with the slowness and constant extreme thrashing from any other electronic piece of equipment they own or plan to purchase? If I had a radio, tv, ipod, ipad, camera, dvr or literally any electronics that made this much noise and this slow – it would be gone.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jjohns said:


> The only reason this continues is the lack of competition in the market. Seriously, would anyone put up with the slowness and constant extreme thrashing from any other electronic piece of equipment they own or plan to purchase? If I had a radio, tv, ipod, ipad, camera, dvr or literally any electronics that made this much noise and this slow - it would be gone.


I can't quite agree, as mine still aren't having this problem, so "I know" it isn't happening to everyone.

I do agree if mine were acting like some of the poster's are/were, that I would be string up the pot at DirecTV.

Now not all of mine are exempt, as one HR20 yesterday powered up but was locked with the lights spinning. Rebooting resolved this and this was the first time it needed it in several months.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

I don't think my HR24 is slow, but I do know that Comcast and Time Warner cable guides are complete jokes in terms of UI. Completely not user friendly. The guide takes the liberty of abbreviating show names? Scrolling doesn't overlap the final line of the previous page to the current page so you can't tell how many pages you actually skipped, etc. 

Dish Network is a second rate company to me, so I don't even consider them an option. It's like buying a Hyundai. I know they're a quality brand now, but I would still buy a Toyota first. For TV, I would go to cable before Dish.


----------



## garygaryj (Dec 28, 2007)

Just thought I would follow-up by trying to show the guide speed of my VIP 922 on Dish (I'm an ex-DirecTV customer, who felt compelled to move to Dish after disappointments in things like Guide Speed, software roll-outs, and the lack of new HD channels that I wanted.)

Now, granted, this is not a demo of anything other than guide speed. I took it off my office TV2 480i simulated 16x9 SD output from the 922, which is two floors below me in the basement home theater. I'm operating this from my TV2 RF Remote Control.

Vimeo 24 second clip

Now, granted, I'm not a videographer giant - but this does show the speed for comparison. This is not sped up in any way - it is actual speed. And this is the SD output, and not the HD output, which is high quality.

Someone commented after this post as to whether this was scrolling speed via holding down the "Page up" or "Page down" buttons, and yes, that is the case, which is *my* normal way to scroll. If I hadn't been in a hurry, I would have thought of that, and would have also displayed the "Channel down / Channel up" method, for comparison. It's always more inefficient, but many (most?) do that, and it is a bit slower than the 922 speed displayed on the clip, but is faster than the DirecTV channel up / channel down. It is my belief that Echostar managed to design some CPU speed (or a special chip?) to the screen graphics?? I don't know. I just know that after years on an HR20-100, the Dish 922 is unbelievably fast. In a few weeks, I will post a new HD version that displays more capability, including the PIP (Picture in Picture) of the 922.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

tritch said:


> Doug, aren't you counting the chickens a little early?? This remains to be seen. I'd like to be as overly optimistic as you, but past promises of faster speeds with software updates over the years has been broken many times in my opinion. A person could compile a huge book on the countless number of threads related to the slowness of the HR20, 21, 22 and 23's. I've had all the models at one time or another and they all perform with the same relative slowness. I can't speak about the HR24 because I've never had one.
> 
> The slowness is tolerable for me and many others, but should have been a lot better from the beginning. Directv has had 3+ years to improve the speed of these other HD DVR's and have failed so far. The software updates have only added features and fixed issues, but has done little to improve speed with these models. Up to this point, the answer is to get a HR24, but why should they have to?
> 
> ...


Tritch, I understand your apprehension. But you can take Doug's word, or mine if you find it more to your liking. I've seen it with my own eyes, as has Doug. I have every reason to believe that you'll see it for yourself before the year is out.


----------



## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

That's right - just stand there and believe your lying eyes!
(Oh wait... that's a punchline to another joke.)


----------



## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

Just wanted to report that my wife has told me one of our HR 20s (that I don't watch) is much, much zippier after the reboot.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jjohns said:


> That's right - just stand there and believe your lying eyes!
> (Oh wait... that's a punchline to another joke.)


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tritch said:


> Doug, aren't you counting the chickens a little early?? This remains to be seen. I'd like to be as overly optimistic as you, but past promises of faster speeds with software updates over the years has been broken many times in my opinion. A person could compile a huge book on the countless number of threads related to the slowness of the HR20, 21, 22 and 23's. I've had all the models at one time or another and they all perform with the same relative slowness. I can't speak about the HR24 because I've never had one.


Unless you're talking about the speed of the 20-100 as opposed to the 20-700, I don't understand that part of your post. I have eight 20-700s and they all are quick and responsive. The 21 series I'll agree with. They've been slow since they were introduced (general observation, some might have been quick, most weren't).



> The slowness is tolerable for me and many others, but should have been a lot better from the beginning. Directv has had 3+ years to improve the speed of these other HD DVR's and have failed so far. The software updates have only added features and fixed issues, but has done little to improve speed with these models. Up to this point, the answer is to get a HR24, but why should they have to?


I really think the 20-700s should have been the only DVR until D* was ready to put out the 24s. The old VW Bug should be a perfect business model to follow. Take a good design that everyone likes and just keep tweaking it for years until you can come up with something better. I realize the 20-700s were expensive to make, but to go from a good stable platform to under performing cheaper models makes little sense unless you look at it from a financial viewpoint.



> The blame can be put on the programmers, poor hardware design or a combination of both. I really don't care who's at fault, it just needs to get fixed once and for all.


I think the blame should be shared by the consumers. If we hadn't bought/leased the 21 series they would not have proliferated as they did. The NY Mets found out that if you put a team on the field that consistently loses, nobody puts their fannies in the seats. No fannies in the seats and all the profits from the concessions dry up. Didn't take them long to realize what was going on and start spending some money on decent players. I just think it took three years or so for D* to realize that the 21 series wasn't gonna work out as well as they had hoped and they put out the 24 series. A big upgrade.



> After this latest slowdown fiasco, I'm not very optimistic and remain skeptical about the new GUI and speed. I'll believe it when I see it......


Gotta admit the whole thing kinda scares me.

Rich


----------



## brucec32 (Jul 11, 2007)

garygaryj said:


> Just thought I would follow-up by trying to show the guide speed of my VIP 922 on Dish (I'm an ex-DirecTV customer, who felt compelled to move to Dish after disappointments in things like Guide Speed, software roll-outs, and the lack of new HD channels that I wanted.)
> 
> Now, granted, this is not a demo of anything other than guide speed. I took it off my office TV2 480i simulated 16x9 SD output from the 922, which is two floors below me in the basement home theater. I'm operating this from my TV2 RF Remote Control.
> 
> ...


Incredible difference. Makes my DTV units look like they're from 1992. After about 15 years with DTV I think I'll make the switchover this winter when I have more time away from work to deal with it. There really is no excuse in an era where cell phones you hold in your hand can be made fast and powerful to have a big box sitting there that is so ridiculously sluggish. If Dish is cheaper all the better. I have had my units long enough to be able to just dump them and will probably do so. I pay over $100/mo with no premium channels so one would think they could find the cash to engineer a unit that works well.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

garygaryj said:


> Just thought I would follow-up by trying to show the guide speed of my VIP 922 on Dish (I'm an ex-DirecTV customer, who felt compelled to move to Dish after disappointments in things like Guide Speed, software roll-outs, and the lack of new HD channels that I wanted.)
> 
> Now, granted, this is not a demo of anything other than guide speed. I took it off my office TV2 480i simulated 16x9 SD output from the 922, which is two floors below me in the basement home theater. I'm operating this from my TV2 RF Remote Control.
> 
> ...


Wow! That is fast. I'm impressed. Thanx for the clip, very well done.

Rich


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"brucec32" said:


> Incredible difference. Makes my DTV units look like they're from 1992. After about 15 years with DTV I think I'll make the switchover this winter when I have more time away from work to deal with it. There really is no excuse in an era where cell phones you hold in your hand can be made fast and powerful to have a big box sitting there that is so ridiculously sluggish. If Dish is cheaper all the better. I have had my units long enough to be able to just dump them and will probably do so. I pay over $100/mo with no premium channels so one would think they could find the cash to engineer a unit that works well.


Winter should be a good timeframe, I'd see what happens with the HD GUI and how much it speeds things up.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

That video showed it paging quickly... Didn't Doug or someone post a similar HR video before showing scrolling speed? When I page up/down it flies by faster than I can read.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> *That video showed it paging quickly*... Didn't Doug or someone post a similar HR video before showing scrolling speed? When I page up/down it flies by faster than I can read.


While that video does show faster scrolling than any of my receivers, it also isn't very useful to me in that mode. As the video started getting down to how I use my guide, where I can read it and move within the guide/grid, it was no faster than my H25.


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

I was gone for a day and today when I got back and turned on the TV the DVR is back to it's slow response. Not as bad as it was a few weeks ago but it's getting there.

The reciever must have reset itself for some reason. I can tell when I hit double play and the second tuner goes to channel 100. We did not have power interruptions here either and I don't see any updates.

I didn't have a choice of boxes, this is what they installed and I didn't even know there were problems with the 22/100.

The Dish demo was impressive to say the least, unfortunately, I have another 6 months to go to complete my contract. And I'll be dxxx if I'm going to fork out a couple hundred bucks to buy new equipment when the boxes I originally bought were junk. If these were completely rental I could somewhat forgive it, but since we have to "buy" them and still don't own them and pay rent is too much. 

A few years back I bought a Samsung HD reciever for DTV and paid 400 bucks for it, and it wasn't a dvr. They changed their system and now it's useless. They wouldn't even give me any type of credit towards a new one. 

Also, the other DVR 22/100 that I have which I don't use too much is back to the double didget thing again. I press 2 and get 22 etc.... It's almost impossible to use. 

If something doesn't change by the time my contract expires, I will certainly be shopping around. Actually, I don't think DTV should be able to hold me to the agreement since the equipment doesn't work properly.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Burnerbum,

What percentage free do you have in your playlist?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Burnerbum said:


> I was gone for a day and today when I got back and turned on the TV the DVR is back to it's slow response. Not as bad as it was a few weeks ago but it's getting there.
> 
> The reciever must have reset itself for some reason. I can tell when I hit double play and the second tuner goes to channel 100. We did not have power interruptions here either and I don't see any updates.
> 
> ...


I think they'll hold you to the agreement. I've only had mine waived once. Unfortunately, you didn't get a good HR to begin with. You really should have just bitten the bullet and bought/leased a 24 from a site like Solid Signal.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Burnerbum,
> 
> What percentage free do you have in your playlist?


Good point, I always think everyone has 2TB HDDs on their HRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Burnerbum said:


> I was gone for a day and today when I got back and turned on the TV the DVR is back to it's slow response. Not as bad as it was a few weeks ago but it's getting there.
> 
> The reciever must have reset itself for some reason. I can tell when I hit double play and the second tuner goes to channel 100. We did not have power interruptions here either and I don't see any updates.
> 
> ...


Have you ever considered putting an external drive on the 22? A bigger drive might help.

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> While that video does show faster scrolling than any of my receivers, it also isn't very useful to me in that mode. As the video started getting down to how I use my guide, where I can read it and move within the guide/grid, it was no faster than my H25.


So I just tried to repeat the video with my H25, by going into the guide and holding down the channel button.
While it was "damn fast", the guide wasn't a blur as in the video.
Now I don't know if this was because I wasn't watching a video of it or not, as I could just get to see a program before it zipped away, which I couldn't in the video.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> So I just tried to repeat the video with my H25, by going into the guide and holding down the channel button.
> While it was "damn fast", the guide wasn't a blur as in the video.
> Now I don't know if this was because I wasn't watching a video of it or not, as I could just get to see a program before it zipped away, which I couldn't in the video.


One can definitely make an argument for going "too fast" .. Speed is great, but if comprehension can't keep up then speed can become an impediment.


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> Burnerbum,
> 
> What percentage free do you have in your playlist?


28% Free


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Burnerbum said:


> 28% Free


A little low and could be a small factor, but it's really not that bad. In other words there's plenty of free space.

So I guess I'd ask, is it the same slow it's always been? The degrading part that you mentioned is where I see some concern. If you get a chance, you should run the surface scan just to make sure that either (1) any HDD issues are fixed or (2) there is a clear error letting you know there is a problem.

To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


----------



## bobfrapples (Jul 7, 2011)

How do you guys keep your DVR from less than 100% full? What is the best practice you guys use to keep/delete material? 

I keep some stuff I like, and also just let stuff a new week's shows record over the older ones. I rarely delete anything manually. Do you guys delete a show immediately after you watch it?


----------



## Burnerbum (Jul 16, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> A little low and could be a small factor, but it's really not that bad. In other words there's plenty of free space.
> 
> So I guess I'd ask, is it the same slow it's always been? The degrading part that you mentioned is where I see some concern. If you get a chance, you should run the surface scan just to make sure that either (1) any HDD issues are fixed or (2) there is a clear error letting you know there is a problem.
> 
> ...


I can do that tonight. I can see how these drives would get very fragmented too. But there should be or should have been a seperater partition for the operating system files. Also a defrag option.

Plus this happens on both DVRs. And the other one isn't used much and has more free space on it that the other.

But I'm willing to give anything a try at this point.

Thanks.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Burnerbum said:


> I can do that tonight. I can see how these drives would get very fragmented too. But there should be or should have been a seperater partition for the operating system files. Also a defrag option.
> 
> Plus this happens on both DVRs. And the other one isn't used much and has more free space on it that the other.
> 
> ...


The OS is primarily on flash .. The drives also self-repair but it takes a while because that operation is secondary to actual use (recording/playback).

These devices don't fragment in the same way a PC might. The disk operations are different. The surface scan will try to find bad blocks and will simply mark them as unusable. Any data that may have been there is just gone. The video files are OK with this missing data, though. It's not like a PC file where missing blocks corrupt the whole thing, it's a streaming file. Missing blocks may simply mean a portion of the playback now has macroblocking rather than being smooth. If there are too many bad blocks, though the system will recognize that an throw an error. In that case, you'll need to get the unit replaced, but often the surface scan will simply make sure you're not visiting bad blocks on the disk and (as a result) work more efficiently.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

"bobfrapples" said:


> How do you guys keep your DVR from less than 100% full? What is the best practice you guys use to keep/delete material?
> 
> I keep some stuff I like, and also just let stuff a new week's shows record over the older ones. I rarely delete anything manually. Do you guys delete a show immediately after you watch it?


Watch and delete almost everything, I never let my drives get past 70% full.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobfrapples said:


> How do you guys keep your DVR from less than 100% full? What is the best practice you guys use to keep/delete material?
> 
> I keep some stuff I like, and also just let stuff a new week's shows record over the older ones. I rarely delete anything manually. Do you guys delete a show immediately after you watch it?


Not sure about "you guys", but I don't watch repeats so most of my use is watch & delete. I have saved recording that were good, but after a second viewing, nothing can/will keep my attention anymore.
Currently on my two DVRs there is only 10% being used and these have the stock drives. "I'd guess" 50% may be the highest I've ever used.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobfrapples said:


> How do you guys keep your DVR from less than 100% full? What is the best practice you guys use to keep/delete material?
> 
> I keep some stuff I like, and also just let stuff a new week's shows record over the older ones. I rarely delete anything manually. Do you guys delete a show immediately after you watch it?


I delete after watching. I have mostly 2TB drives either internally or externally and I try to keep them no more than 50% full. I have none of the problems the other folks on this thread are reporting. But I have only 20-700s and 24s and one lone 21-200 that my son never complains about.

Rich


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> One can definitely make an argument for going "too fast" .. Speed is great, but if comprehension can't keep up then speed can become an impediment.


(Smacks forehead). That's a first, I've never heard anyone complain that a user interface was too responsive. He's holding down the button. The moment he stops, the scrolling stops. It goes as fast as he wants it to.

You're missing the point. The Dish Receiver isn't struggling to meet that speed. It either has tons of processing power to spare, or it is prioritizing user input extremely well. My HR24 doesn't scroll that fast. In fact, with scrolling on, it doesn't look like it bothers scrolling most of the time because it's struggling to keep up.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

If I was scrolling really fast, by the time I released the button, I'd have to backtrack.

I don't use the guide much myself, but the new guide has been compared to a spreadsheet in speed. I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> (Smacks forehead). That's a first, I've never heard anyone complain that a user interface was too responsive. He's holding down the button. The moment he stops, the scrolling stops. It goes as fast as he wants it to.
> 
> You're missing the point. The Dish Receiver isn't struggling to meet that speed. It either has tons of processing power to spare, or it is prioritizing user input extremely well. My HR24 doesn't scroll that fast. In fact, with scrolling on, it doesn't look like it bothers scrolling most of the time because it's struggling to keep up.


I didn't even watch the video. My comments were generic and have nothing to do with that video.

Secondly, I never once said any of the current UIs are "too fast." I find the HR24s to be fine, but I definitely wouldn't put it in a "too fast" category. I was only arguing that there is a sweet spot. IF (emphasis on IF) a UI is going so fast that I cannot comprehend where it is .. It becomes just as useless as "too slow." That was my only point .. And yeah, it's a fairly obvious point.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> (Smacks forehead). That's a first, I've never heard anyone complain that a user interface was too responsive. He's holding down the button. The moment he stops, the scrolling stops. It goes as fast as he wants it to.
> 
> You're missing the point. The Dish Receiver isn't struggling to meet that speed. It either has tons of processing power to spare, or it is prioritizing user input extremely well. My HR24 doesn't scroll that fast. In fact, with scrolling on, it doesn't look like it bothers scrolling most of the time because it's struggling to keep up.





Doug Brott said:


> I didn't even watch the video. My comments were generic and have nothing to do with that video.
> 
> Secondly, I never once said any of the current UIs are "too fast." I find the HR24s to be fine, but I definitely wouldn't put it in a "too fast" category. I was only arguing that there is a sweet spot. IF (emphasis on IF) a UI is going so fast that I cannot comprehend where it is .. It becomes just as useless as "too slow." That was my only point .. And yeah, it's a fairly obvious point.


Since this seems to come from my earlier post, the point I was trying to make is, while the video does look faster, if my H25 scrolled any faster, it wouldn't be of use to me as the guide would be a blur, as in the video. The H25 is fast, but I could see the guide.
Once the video shifted to moving around within the page, my H25 is just as fast.
Anybody want to stop by and make a video?


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

"brucec32" said:


> Incredible difference. Makes my DTV units look like they're from 1992. After about 15 years with DTV I think I'll make the switchover this winter when I have more time away from work to deal with it. There really is no excuse in an era where cell phones you hold in your hand can be made fast and powerful to have a big box sitting there that is so ridiculously sluggish. If Dish is cheaper all the better. I have had my units long enough to be able to just dump them and will probably do so. I pay over $100/mo with no premium channels so one would think they could find the cash to engineer a unit that works well.


I have to agree. This latest aggravation made me wish for my original dvr, an Ultimate Tv, that I got from DirecTv in 2001. Guide speed, channel changing, and fast forwarding with a real 30 second skip were all faster than my HR 21s. It didn't have all the other features but at least it never aggravated me like this. If Fios were available to me here I think I would have switched by now. I'll be very interested to see what this new UI will do but I'm somewhat skeptical.


----------



## MeanStreak (Jul 22, 2011)

I had 2 Birthdays before mine changed channels. My son was born waiting on the guide to come up.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

MeanStreak said:


> I had 2 Birthdays before mine changed channels. My son was born waiting on the guide to come up.


Thank you. A moment of sanity in an otherwise surreal conversation.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> One can definitely make an argument for going "too fast" .. Speed is great, but if comprehension can't keep up then speed can become an impediment.


Oh, yes. I wish a couple guys here would slow down their typing, as I can't keep up! :nono2:

On a slightly more serious level, are there any identifiable factors as to what might slow down or speed up the scrolling on a given receiver? (Not talking about built-in capability, but variances in a given receiver due to xy or z external factors)


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Scott Kocourek said:


> Watch and delete almost everything, I never let my drives get past 70% full.


+1, though in practice I am seldom more than 60% full on my HR20-700, which has a smaller HD than the 24. One long golf or tennis day on top of some baseball, and I am totally out!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> On a slightly more serious level, are there any identifiable factors as to what might slow down or speed up the scrolling on a given receiver? (Not talking about built-in capability, but variances in a given receiver due to xy or z external factors)


Good Disk, Bad Disk .. It still has to read the guide data from the disk. The system can only cache so much before it has to fetch more. If a HDD is not performing as well as it should, it could affect overall menu performance.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Thank you. A moment of sanity in an otherwise surreal conversation.


:scratchin .. I'm quite certain that it doesn't take 2 years to change a channel.


----------



## vid53 (Jan 8, 2006)

One of my problems is when i fast forward at times it wont stop until i push play a few times and then i have to rewind. Also if i am fast forwarding at times it will jump ahead in time. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this also part of the slow problem of the DVRs?


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

vid53 said:


> One of my problems is when i fast forward at times it wont stop until i push play a few times and then i have to rewind. Also if i am fast forwarding at times it will jump ahead in time. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this also part of the slow problem of the DVRs?


Only when my battery was running low, and the signal wasn't received to stop. Jumping ahead could happen if a key sticks a bit and gives the signal to jump to the next half hour (or whatever) mark.

You might try: Different remote? New batteries? Making sure aim doesn't wander?


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> *Good Disk, Bad Disk* .. It still has to read the guide data from the disk. The system can only cache so much before it has to fetch more. If a HDD is not performing as well as it should, it could affect overall menu performance.


And non-DVRs receivers?


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> :scratchin .. I'm quite certain that it doesn't take 2 years to change a channel.


And I am quite certain no one will ever be put off by the blinding speed of the user interface on the HR21-100, under any circumstances.

Mine has returned to its usual painful slowness.

It's OK to have a bias for the home team, but let's not leave the world of logic. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Since this seems to come from my earlier post, the point I was trying to make is, while the video does look faster, if my H25 scrolled any faster, it wouldn't be of use to me as the guide would be a blur, as in the video. The H25 is fast, but I could see the guide.
> Once the video shifted to moving around within the page, my H25 is just as fast.
> Anybody want to stop by and make a video?


I would agree with you, but I see people scrolling this fast using their iPhones and somehow they can stop it where they want to on a dime. Maybe because that application has pictures it is easier to spot where you want to stop. The grid guide on the DVR just has lines of text that might make it more difficult to see the text as it whizzes by. But you could probably keep an eye on the channel numbers.

Plus, we are comparing the speed of a D* receiver to a Dish DVR! We aren't bothering to compare the HR24 with the ViP 922, because we know who would win. You could argue that you wouldn't want to pay more for a box faster than an H25. But the prices between a Dish DVR and the HR2x series are competitive.

Since Doug has told us the new interface is faster, I'm assuming (gulp) that the new HD interface is using chipset functions that were previously unused. And I can't wait, -- my HR24-200 is usually fast enough but is occasionally sluggish.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> I would agree with you, but I see people scrolling this fast using their iPhones and somehow they can stop it where they want to on a dime. Maybe because that application has pictures it is easier to spot where you want to stop. The grid guide on the DVR just has lines of text that might make it more difficult to see the text as it whizzes by. But you could probably keep an eye on the channel numbers.
> 
> Plus, we are comparing the speed of a D* receiver to a Dish DVR! We aren't bothering to compare the HR24 with the ViP 922, because we know who would win. You could argue that you wouldn't want to pay more for a box faster than an H25. But the prices between a Dish DVR and the HR2x series are competitive.
> 
> Since Doug has told us the new interface is faster, I'm assuming (gulp) that the new HD interface is using chipset functions that were previously unused. And I can't wait, -- my HR24-200 is usually fast enough but is occasionally sluggish.


I don't have an iPhone either, to know how fast they are.
Now, I think there may be a difference between scrolling a list that you know, verses scrolling a guide with channels you know, but not what's airing.
[an old school analog] It is easy to find the page you want in the yellow pages, but takes a bit longer to find the company listing you're looking for.
When I'm in the guide, it's because I'm scanning for what's on.

Not that I don't think the Dish receiver couldn't be faster, and that the video has been altered in any way, but do wonder if the blurring has anything to do with the act of being recorded.
The H25 looks so close, that I wonder if it too would look blurred if recorded. :shrug:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> And I am quite certain no one will ever be put off by the blinding speed of the user interface on the HR21-100, under any circumstances.
> 
> Mine has returned to its usual painful slowness.
> 
> It's OK to have a bias for the home team, but let's not leave the world of logic. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.


OK .. But you said it was "sanity talking" that it took 2 years to change one channel.

I said that things should be back to their "normal slowness" (go back and read it, it's there).

So my "own facts" are that the problems that were causing the "excruciating slowness" were fixed. I still have no reason to doubt that based on the current claims. Do you? If so, please provide real facts and not innuendo.

If there are still problems, then I'd like to help get those fixed as well.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> And non-DVRs receivers?


Yeah, but I took the question to be on the same model type .. If you're speaking of non-DVRs running at different speeds, then show me some evidence. I haven't seen much in that department (doesn't mean it's not there, I just haven't seen the evidence because most folks here use DVRs.)


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. But you said it was "sanity talking" that it took 2 years to change one channel.
> 
> I said that things should be back to their "normal slowness" (go back and read it, it's there).
> 
> ...


Technically, "2 birthdays" could be as little as 366 days. For my HR-22, that is pretty close to the normal operation!


----------



## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

I had 2 HR20-700's go bad on me earlier this year and were replaced with a HR21-200 and HR21-700, presumably refurbished and both with (at that time) excrutiatingly slow responses. It seemd to help a bit after resetting them, but now they are both back to the slow response. It comes and goes, but when it is slow, it is becoming unbearable. Available storage ranges between 70% to 100% of both.

I mostly watch the 200 and at times the guide comes up so slow that I then push guide again and when it comes up, it jumps to the guide category list from pushing it twice. Once in the guide, when paging down (channel down), the highlight will jump to the bottom line and then sit there for what seems forever before the page scrolls. If hitting a number to go to a specific channel in the guide, the number does not come up, so I hit it again giving me duplicate numbers for which there may be no corresponding channels. After it goes through two of those because of the amount of numbers enterred, I then get to start over.

It seems to me anyway, that when moving within the guide, that when the cursor moves to a new program, it will not/cannot move again until that program information is displayed, which may take a minute or two.

At any rate, as a very long term sub, I am becoming increasingly frustrated with this. And when I add in the somewhat low satellite readings (some in the 70's) that are not low enough for a re-aiming, but low enough that I have what I consider more frequent rain fade, examining other options becomes a consideration. I really want to stay with D*, but it seems I have no option to correct problems without spending a good amount of $.


----------



## Ed-Williams (Sep 8, 2006)

Sorry…don’t know what happened to the rest of my post…

I’m convinced that the DirecTV bloated software will never work properly with older DVRs models 
than the HR24’s, simply there is not enough processing power in the HR-20/21/23 to handle all the 
newest features like Whole-HomeDVR, VOD, etc.

I think DirecTV is great if you have an HR24 but there's only so much software can do for you when 
the hardware is limited in processing power. The only way older models would perform better is if the 
programming was simplified but that would mean losing many features. 

Regards,
Ed


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Ed-Williams said:


> I'm convinced that the DirecTV bloated software will never work properly with older DVRs models than the HR24's ...


Then you shall be surprised ..


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OlderNDirt said:


> It seems to me anyway, that when moving within the guide, that when the cursor moves to a new program, it will not/cannot move again until that program information is displayed, which may take a minute or two.


If you are serious about the a minute or two, then something is wrong here. It should not be taking that long. What is happening to most people (or "normal" slow) could probably be best described as walking through mud. It works, but it's frustrating that you can't go as fast as you'd like to.

Does it really take 60-120 seconds to continue after it gets stuck in the guide?


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

BattleScott said:


> Technically, "2 birthdays" could be as little as 366 days. For my HR-22, that is pretty close to the normal operation!


What if you were born on Feb. 29th? Isn't that 4 years apart? I hope your DVR isn't THAT slow.


----------



## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If you are serious about the a minute or two, then something is wrong here. It should not be taking that long. What is happening to most people (or "normal" slow) could probably be best described as walking through mud. It works, but it's frustrating that you can't go as fast as you'd like to.
> 
> Does it really take 60-120 seconds to continue after it gets stuck in the guide?


I have not timed the delays, but will admit that moving one page or line would not be 60-120 seconds, but moving several programs in any direction (or scrolling up/down 3 or 4 pages) becomes a pain. I do like your analogy to "walking through mud" and it is like sometimes one foot gets stuck or a shoe comes off. 

It is not so much about going as fast as I'd like to, it's more the uncertainty of whether or not a remote command was recognized and the delays while waiting to see if it did or not.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

OlderNDirt said:


> I have not timed the delays, but will admit that moving one page or line would not be 60-120 seconds, but moving several programs in any direction (or scrolling up/down 3 or 4 pages) becomes a pain. I do like your analogy to "walking through mud" and it is like sometimes one foot gets stuck or a shoe comes off.
> 
> It is not so much about going as fast as I'd like to,* it's more the uncertainty of whether or not a remote command was recognized and the delays while waiting to see if it did or not.*


That's the issue I have almost every time I turn on the receiver after a long shutoff and want to change channels. I usually end up doing what I call a channel tour. Doesn't matter if I'm in the Guide or not.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OlderNDirt said:


> It is not so much about going as fast as I'd like to, it's more the uncertainty of whether or not a remote command was recognized and the delays while waiting to see if it did or not.


If this is the case, then I suspect you are seeing what others are seeing. This particular aspect will improve late this year, so there is hope. If you have an LCD monitor, you might try turning the brightness down slightly as the LCD may be affecting the infrared signal from the remote.

I'm guessing you bounce around in the guide a fair amount of time which only exacerbates the problem for you. In my case, I'm nearly 100% from the playlist so my interaction with the guide is infrequent. Plus, I'm all HR24 which tend to work better in that regard.


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

I agree with OlderThanDirt on the response time for my HR21. I've moved it to the single channel room and watch live TV. Recording is problematic with hesitations and some pixilation. If I didn't have a comparison I might conclude that it's just the way things are. The older HR20 seems like a speed demon by comparison. Press a button and things happen. 
It's fine to look to the future, but I happen to live in the present. 
When do we expect the new UI?

Skippy


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

SkippyJasper said:


> When do we expect the new UI?


Mike White said October, but I think it was more of a "should be" than a "will be." It could be later.


----------



## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Then you shall be surprised ..


I sure hope you are right! Call me cynically hopeful.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Ed-Williams said:


> Sorry&#8230;don't know what happened to the rest of my post&#8230;
> 
> I'm convinced that the DirecTV bloated software will never work properly with older DVRs models
> than the HR24's, simply there is not enough processing power in the HR-20/21/23 to handle all the
> ...


Could be, but waaaaaaay beside the point, the point being that perfectly fast-enough DVRs (and for years) all of a sudden have slowed to a dead crawl.

What changed? Certainly not the hardware itself. This was also not coincidental with an up rev. That leaves whatever they changed in the stream as the only answer.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Could be, but waaaaaaay beside the point, the point being that perfectly fast-enough DVRs (and for years) all of a sudden have slowed to a dead crawl.
> 
> What changed? Certainly not the hardware itself. This was also not coincidental with an up rev. That leaves whatever they changed in the stream as the only answer.


Fair assessment for the purpose of this thread, but I believe the specific post you quoted was referencing the "normal" slowness of the HR21.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ed-Williams said:


> Sorry&#8230;don't know what happened to the rest of my post&#8230;
> 
> I'm convinced that the DirecTV bloated software will never work properly with older DVRs models
> than the HR24's, simply there is not enough processing power in the HR-20/21/23 to handle all the
> ...


I have no problems with my 20-700s. Aside from that I agree with your post. There's nothing about my 700s that I'd call slow. They aren't as quick as the 24s, but that's like comparing cars. Since the 24s came out, my 20-700s have been more reliable than the 24s. I've had to replace my 24s several times, lost count-sorry, and haven't had to replace any of my 20-700s in that time frame.

Did you try to save those two 20-700s? Not hard to do. Much better than putting up with the series 2 HRs.

Rich


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Things were pretty good for a few days. Unfortunately when I returned from vacation two days ago every thing was just as bad as it was earlier this month.

Guide excruciatingly slow, channel change slow, and at times the whole unit freezes up and none of the buttons on the remote will work and the only button on the front panel that works is the reset.

Clearing NV RAM used to fix the problems for a day or two but that no longer works. Did another reset last night, because it froze up, and it seemed OK for the rest of the evening.

This is really getting old in a hurry. My HR23 operated OK for years, why can't we go back to some previous version of the software that at least works?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If your DVR is freezing at this point in time I have to wonder if there's something else going on. I don't think any software version is going to have an effect.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tumbleweed said:


> This is really getting old in a hurry. My HR23 operated OK for years, why can't we go back to some previous version of the software that at least works?


Your description is symptomatic of a failing HDD. I'd suggest you run the surface scan.

To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> If your DVR is freezing at this point in time I have to wonder if there's something else going on. I don't think any software version is going to have an effect.


No, this "excruciatingly slow" issue was not related to the software version.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Your description is symptomatic of a failing HDD. I'd suggest you run the surface scan.
> 
> To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:
> 
> ...


Be a lot easier to stick an external drive on it and see if that does the same thing. Then you can make a conclusion as to whether it's the HDD or the HR.

Rich


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Your description is symptomatic of a failing HDD. I'd suggest you run the surface scan.
> 
> To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:
> . . . . . . . .


Doug, thanks for the instructions getting me into the test menus.

I run the Hard Drive Surface Test, 0 errors found. So I ran the other 3 Hard Drive Tests, all passed.

I then went through the test menu and run all of the tests that I thought were relevant and a lot of the ones that weren't, everything passed.

No programs or data was lost.

It's running OK now, just the normal slowness, so I'll see if it keeps going.

Any other tests or anything I should look at?


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Be a lot easier to stick an external drive on it and see if that does the same thing. Then you can make a conclusion as to whether it's the HDD or the HR.
> 
> Rich


Good idea Rich ,thanks, unfortunately I used my only external SATA hard drive to back up my desktop computer and I haven't bought another one yet.

The internal drive passed all the tests but it did take several hours.


----------



## vid53 (Jan 8, 2006)

I have 3 HR24-200 DVRs 2 of them seem to work fine with no slowness at all of functions. The other one sometimes wont work at all and some time works like a scalded dog.Is this the problem you all seem to be having?


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> Fair assessment for the purpose of this thread, but I believe the specific post you quoted was referencing the "normal" slowness of the HR21.


Well, yeah, I'm sure it was, which is why I was trying to un-muddy the waters. Stuff naturally drifts, and in an important thread like this, it might be helpful to try to stay on track or get back on track. Why else would I otherwise even mention it? :scratchin


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tumbleweed said:


> Doug, thanks for the instructions getting me into the test menus.
> ...
> It's running OK now, just the normal slowness, so I'll see if it keeps going.
> 
> Any other tests or anything I should look at?


The Surface Scan does more than just check for errors, it will actual do repairs .. Unless you have purchased a third party drive that doesn't allow for that capability. So, the fact that it is running better may actually mean that it fixed your problems.


----------



## Inches (Jan 5, 2005)

Mine got fixed, I got a HR24-200 :hurah: Much better performance!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Be a lot easier to stick an external drive on it and see if that does the same thing. Then you can make a conclusion as to whether it's the HDD or the HR.
> 
> Rich


You say that .. BUT ..

One has to have an external drive .. One also has to have an appropriate enclosure for said drive. Lastly, one also has to be willing to have no programs and set up series links again.

I don't think I'd qualify your method as "a lot easier." In fact, I think it introduced added complexities.


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

vid53 said:


> I have 3 HR24-200 DVRs 2 of them seem to work fine with no slowness at all of functions. The other one sometimes wont work at all and some time works like a scalded dog.Is this the problem you all seem to be having?


Yes exactly what I have been seeing. Doug posted that the surface scan I just ran actually repairs some problems so maybe that will help. If it isn't fixed I'll either buy an external drive or try to talk them out of a new DVR.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tumbleweed said:


> Good idea Rich ,thanks, unfortunately I used my only external SATA hard drive to back up my desktop computer and I haven't bought another one yet.
> 
> The internal drive passed all the tests but it did take several hours.


I keep an extra external HDD/external device around for troubleshooting. I've never had to run those tests. It doesn't take long to determine where the trouble lies if you use an external HDD on an HR.

I've got a 20-700 running on an external 2TB drive that has an internal HDD that is absolutely shot. Won't boot up all the way on the internal. Been running on the external drive for months, the HR works perfectly.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> You say that .. BUT ..
> 
> One has to have an external drive .. One also has to have an appropriate enclosure for said drive. Lastly, one also has to be willing to have no programs and set up series links again.


You don't have to do anything but run the external for an hour or so to determine if the problem occurs in the external HDD or not. If you find out that the HDD or the HR is shot, then you do have to set up the replacement HDD or HR.



> I don't think I'd qualify your method as "a lot easier." In fact, I think it introduced added complexities.


It's easier for me. I back everything up multiple times and don't lose anything if I have to replace an HDD or an HR. I do realize that not everyone can afford to have a setup such as mine, but that doesn't stop me from considering using an external device as a troubleshooting tool or recommending that others do it.


----------



## morgan79 (Oct 9, 2007)

hr20-700 mine is so slow,,,,,the guide will not come up for about 10 sec..what in the world is wrong, after the last update is when this all took place....it has never been this slow....
:eek2:


----------



## mrmojo (Feb 11, 2008)

After less than 2 weeks since I did a RBR per the suggestion my HR21-200, which sped up to an acceptable response time, is back to being as slow as ever. It takes forever to change channels or to pull up the guide. I never had any issues until the last s/w release. This stinks!


----------



## Xram (Nov 19, 2005)

"mrmojo" said:


> After less than 2 weeks since I did a RBR per the suggestion my HR21-200, which sped up to an acceptable response time, is back to being as slow as ever. It takes forever to change channels or to pull up the guide. I never had any issues until the last s/w release. This stinks!


+1. What the heck is going on? Frustrating to say the least.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

If anyone is seeing a return to this (seem a couple of you might be), please provide more details.


----------



## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

I posted complaints when it seemed my HR21's had reverted back to the same old slowness, so it is only right that I update improvement.

I did a surface scan on one of the boxes. Since then, both boxes have been running rather nicely. Not sure if the "return to slowness" was an annomaly, if the surface scan on the one improved things, or if there was some other outside effect that caused the brief occurence. At any rate, both boxes are seemingly working fairly nicely at this point and if it stays that way, it is much improved from prior to the RBR "fix".

Thanks to Doug for his help and patience with my frustrations!


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

HR21/100 with ongoing slow response, hesitation on live TV, pixilation on recordings. Latest development is a very slow channel change to channel 1 from a several hour non-used state followed by a 1 minute clearing of the ram. I then selected the Guide and slowly navigated to a channel I wish to watch. 'Select' returned me to channel 1. 
Is this the death throes of this DVR? Any magic I can use to make it work?
Perhaps it's time to call DTV?

Skippy


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SkippyJasper said:


> HR21/100 with ongoing slow response, hesitation on live TV, pixilation on recordings. Latest development is a very slow channel change to channel 1 from a several hour non-used state followed by a 1 minute clearing of the ram. I then selected the Guide and slowly navigated to a channel I wish to watch. *'Select' returned me to channel 1. *
> Is this the death throes of this DVR? Any magic I can use to make it work?
> Perhaps it's time to call DTV?
> 
> Skippy


*That* would make me think about getting another HR. When they start doing things like that, it's usually the HR. I've had a 24-500 do that. And then it went nutz. I don't think you can blame that on a bad HDD.

Rich


----------



## Sad in TX (Sep 19, 2007)

mrmojo said:


> After less than 2 weeks since I did a RBR per the suggestion my HR21-200, which sped up to an acceptable response time, is back to being as slow as ever. It takes forever to change channels or to pull up the guide. I never had any issues until the last s/w release. This stinks!


Doug, one more, on an HR21-100. RBR followed by a surface scan last week showed no problems and gave me back acceptable performance. Then, last night, a show recorded on 7/3 was pixelated and had severe audio dropouts. Commands from the remote took as long as two minutes (no exageration) to "take." The unit rebooted itself overnight, and then again during the day today.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Yes it's starting to slow down once nore & from all the restarts & RBRs , i lost some of my apps ( There ok on the web site ) they are not there in the app store on the HR 22-100 & one is still in the list but grayed out so i can't dl it , can someone help me on this , if so thanks 
P.S. D tech support did not help to fix this .


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

I think this issue may be back. Happened twice to me since last night on two different DVRs. The first time on my R22, got the channel banner and blank screen while tuning to an MLBEI channel.

Happened a second time this morning on HR20 on ESPN2.

The time for the channel to actually come on seemed even longer than when this happened a few weeks ago.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Two HR20s, and one each HR21 and HR22 here. The first channel change of the day is still "excruciatingly" slow on every receiver. The guide takes its own sweet time appearing and then there's ten or so seconds of black screen after a channel is selected. Changes after the "wake up" change seem a bit faster.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks guys .. Please keep posting this information. DIRECTV is aware of this thread and I keep alerting them to specific items that do not look right.

It seems (to me) that a large percentage of those that had the problem are no longer having the problem simply due to the number of posters still here. However, it also seems that there are still some issues that need to be resolved. That's what I'm trying to facilitate. So if you are seeing something similar to the last few posts, please let me know.


----------



## poppagene (Jul 20, 2007)

Jon J said:


> Two HR20s, and one each HR21 and HR22 here. The first channel change of the day is still "excruciatingly" slow on every receiver. The guide takes its own sweet time appearing and then there's ten or so seconds of black screen after a channel is selected. Changes after the "wake up" change seem a bit faster.


Same here on hr20 & hr21


----------



## mrmojo (Feb 11, 2008)

Here's what I am experiencing from time to time:

Bringing up the guide or list of recorded programs takes up to 10 secs

Channel changes take up to 10 secs or only 1 number inputted is received by the DVR and it changes to that even though the channel # may be 3 digits. Then after a delay the other #'s are received by the DVR. Very annoying!

I get a gray screen for as long as 10 secs when changing channels.

FF or REW DVR programs gets "stuck" where I cannot stop the DVR from doing either.

It appears to me as if commands I am sending to the DVR are not being interpreted immediately and therefore are buffering so sometimes the DVR, after a delay, will go off on its own for a while.

I use the RF remote and my HD DVR (HR21-200) is networked via wireless.

Everything was OK until the last software release in early July (7/7 for me). Then after info was released in this forum to reboot (via RBR) my DVR was OK for less than 2 weeks. The issue is more sporadic now so it is not quite as annoying but still seems way too slow compared to before the software update.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jon J said:


> Two HR20s, and one each HR21 and HR22 here. The first channel change of the day is still "excruciatingly" slow on every receiver. The guide takes its own sweet time appearing and then there's ten or so seconds of black screen after a channel is selected. Changes after the "wake up" change seem a bit faster.


I think that the 20-700s (the only HRs I use other than the 24s) usually take a moment or two to wake up and start functioning normally. I've always considered that normal. Kinda like warming up a car on a cold day. I don't see that with my 24s.

Rich


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

rich584 said:


> I think that the 20-700s (the only HRs I use other than the 24s) usually take a moment or two to wake up and start functioning normally. I've always considered that normal. Kinda like warming up a car on a cold day. I don't see that with my 24s.
> 
> Rich


For me and my HR20-700, this is different then what you describe and is similar to the issue that popped up a few weeks ago (then went away).

It's not just a few extra seconds, it is almost 30 seconds of a gray screen (channel banner shows up for a few seconds), before the channel actually comes on.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

raott said:


> For me and my HR20-700, this is different then what you describe and is similar to the issue that popped up a few weeks ago (then went away).
> 
> It's not just a few extra seconds, it is almost 30 seconds of a gray screen (channel banner shows up for a few seconds), before the channel actually comes on.


No, that's not what I see or meant. They just are slow to respond to remote control commands when first turned "on". No blank screens or anything like that. And it just takes a moment for the things to perk up and go to normal speeds.

Rich


----------



## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Mine are never off, in standby, or whatever you want to call it and they still take an eternity to respond to remote commands.


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

My HR23 ran almost perfectly from Friday until this morning, 3 days, but now it's slowed down again and all the old problems are back. I did an RRBBGY and that didn't help, did a reset and it seems a little better. I think it's time for a new DVR.

I'll give them a call in the morning and see what they will do for me.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Let me add something new , now the audio goes away till i switch DD on & off it works ok till i change chs. then it does it all over


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

ub1934, it seems like you have a sick DVR. My recommendations would be... 

(1) watch everything you can on it
(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps
(3) Follow the self test procedures (we can help you through that)
(4) If you get to (4).... a new DVR might be in your future.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Will do the self test one more time , the last time all passed .


----------



## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I am noticing on mine that I tend to lock up right around the 30 minute and 1 hour mark when the guide changes. My box won't respond to remote commands for a good 20 to 30 seconds during that time. 

I also notice that when a recorded show is done playing the box that pops up asking to delete comes up my box goes screwy and doesn't respond to the "UP" command. It sometimes takes 5 or so seconds until I can actually get to delete. I know that doesn't sound very long, but its annoying as all get out. What it really weird is that sometimes it pops up the quick tune box instead of moving the option to delete. 

PS -- HR22-100 running the latest national release.


----------



## SuperZ06 (Aug 20, 2008)

ffemtreed said:


> ....I also notice that when a recorded show is done playing the box that pops up asking to delete comes up my box goes screwy and doesn't respond to the "UP" command. It sometimes takes 5 or so seconds until I can actually get to delete. I know that doesn't sound very long, but its annoying as all get out. What it really weird is that sometimes it pops up the quick tune box instead of moving the option to delete.
> 
> PS -- HR22-100 running the latest national release.


I have this problem as well.
At the end of a recorded show, the ask to delete box comes up and disappears before you can push the up button so when you do push it the quick tune box comes up.


----------



## DC_SnDvl (Aug 17, 2006)

My HR20-700 has slowed down agan as well. I takes anywhere from 10 to 20 sec. to respond to the remote.


----------



## Boobie1998 (Oct 6, 2007)

This issue doesn't apply to the HR24? I still have the functionality slowness, guide....etc
I believe I was told no a few week back but didn't know if things have changed.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ub1934, it seems like you have a sick DVR. My recommendations would be...
> 
> (1) watch everything you can on it
> (2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps
> ...


Did #1 3 & 4 all tests passed , may try #2 today , will let you know the outcome , thanks.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Let us know. You'd be surprised how many times that actually works. At the moment I have an HR24 on the D.L., I'm going to leave it unplugged for a week to see if it helps.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Let us know. You'd be surprised how many times that actually works. At the moment I have an HR24 on the D.L., I'm going to leave it unplugged for a week to see if it helps.


Left it unplugged 3 Hrs till wife came home , it seems better but i will have to give it a few days to see if it holds, thanks one more time for your help .


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Looking for an explanation of the statement *"(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps"*.

What is a difference in physics of DVR and its data between 30 sec or 15 min unplugging vs enormous 6 hrs ?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Looking for an explanation of the statement *"(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps"*.
> 
> What is a difference in physics of DVR and its data between 30 sec or 15 min unplugging vs enormous 6 hrs ?


I've left my troubled HRs (quite a while ago) unplugged overnight and cured some problems. As usual, I have no idea why, other than it must have something to do with capacitance or, perhaps, it thinks you don't love it anymore. Both my answers probably make about the same amount of sense.

Rich


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rich584 said:


> I've left my troubled HRs (quite a while ago) unplugged overnight and cured some problems. As usual, I have no idea why, other than it must have something to do with capacitance or, perhaps, *it thinks you don't love it anymore*. Both my answers probably make about the same amount of sense.
> 
> Rich


I'm incline to believe in that 

To discharge capacitors of the device would be enough 5 min or 15 min max.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> I'm incline to believe in that
> 
> To discharge capacitors of the device would be enough 5 min or 15 min max.


I've had different experiences with large capacitors left in circuits. Little ones, such as you find in the HRs, I have no practical experience with.

Rich


----------



## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I assume it is to let the capacitors bleed off voltage as well.

I'm not sure about the DirecTV receivers, but I know in the past on other electronic devices you could unplug them and then hold down the power button for a minute or two and that would drain the capacitors etc. quickly rather than having to leave the device sit for a while.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

P Smith said:


> I'm incline to believe in that
> 
> To discharge capacitors of the device would be enough 5 min or 15 min max.


While I don't believe that unplugging it longer than 15 minutes is going to help in a way that will matter. It is possible that there could be a heat problem and 15 minutes isn't allowing the unit to cool down enough. That's about the only thing I could possibly think of that a longer unplugged state could help.


----------



## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

P Smith said:


> Looking for an explanation of the statement *"(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps"*.
> 
> What is a difference in physics of DVR and its data between 30 sec or 15 min unplugging vs enormous 6 hrs ?


Same here. My best guess is it has something to do with having no guide updates for a very long time.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Is the Guide data stored in own section on the drive or scattered through out the drive. If not on the hard drive, where is it stored?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Drucifer" said:


> Is the Guide data stored in own section on the drive or scattered through out the drive. If not on the hard drive, where is it stored?


I think it's split up. Basic data in memory, things like posters on the drive. That's based on the fact that receivers with no hard drive still get a guide, but no posters. I wouldn't think they'd change the basic info location on DVRs.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> I think it's split up. Basic data in memory, things like posters on the drive. That's based on the fact that receivers with no hard drive still get a guide, but no posters. I wouldn't think they'd change the basic info location on DVRs.


Explains why the guide flies on non-DVRs.

And it appears then that DVRs need more onboard memory.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> I assume it is to let the capacitors bleed off voltage as well.


I'm not sure you can "bleed off voltage", it's more about bleeding off "juice". But you've got the right idea. I've only got experience with large caps and they take a long time to discharge, if they discharge at all. Usually I had to short out the caps to get them to discharge. I don't have any idea how my experience has anything to do with the HRs. *P Smith* is probably more correct than I am.



> I'm not sure about the DirecTV receivers, but I know in the past on other electronic devices you could unplug them and then hold down the power button for a minute or two and that would drain the capacitors etc. quickly rather than having to leave the device sit for a while.


I don't think that will work with HRs and, again, I'm not sure what leaving them unplugged for long periods of time accomplishes, but it works in some instances. My idea of troubleshooting is "if it works, file it away for future use, and don't worry about why it works." In my job, all those years ago, all the people that called for help wanted was to get the process running again and didn't care how I did it. Used to drive my boss nuts when he'd ask me how I got them running and my reply was, "I'm not really sure."

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> While I don't believe that unplugging it longer than 15 minutes is going to help in a way that will matter. It is possible that there could be a heat problem and 15 minutes isn't allowing the unit to cool down enough. That's about the only thing I could possibly think of that a longer unplugged state could help.


IIRC, *VOS* was the first person to suggest doing this to me. It was years ago at a time when I was desperate and in search of solutions and it actually helped. Sometimes. And if it works, who cares why it works?

I can tell you this: I don't think it had anything to do with heat, I keep a pretty close eye on the temps of my HRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> Explains why the guide flies on non-DVRs.
> 
> And it appears then that DVRs need more onboard memory.


That's a conclusion that many people have come to over the years. And rightly so. Would have been nice to be able to have expansion slots for increased memory, but that would have meant opening the boxes. God forbid we should be allowed to do that. Ever look at the memory cards on the 20-700s? Damned things are armored.

Rich


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

pfp said:


> Same here. My best guess is it has something to do with having no guide updates for a very long time.


My thoughts were similar to this. I thought it was having indigestion processing the next few hours of guide data. By unplugging it you are waiting out the troublesome guide data. When you plug it back in, the DVR realizes it no longer needs to process that troublesome guide data, so it dumps it and gets new guide data and all is well again.

I think the problems people were/are seeing in this thread are also caused by indigestion of guide data.


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

I Have been told by " D " that short of getting a new ? HR i was told as a last resort try resetting everything but i think this would put me back to the orjg. sw version & blow away all my settings , apps & my internet & network setup , What do you think i should do ?


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

ub1934 said:


> I Have been told by " D " that short of getting a new ? HR i was told as a last resort try resetting everything but i think this would put me back to the orjg. sw version & blow away all my settings , apps & my internet & network setup , What do you think i should do ?


Would you lose all of the programs you have on the HD? If they would still be there I guess I would give it a try. On the other hand if I lost my programs I would ask for a new DVR, an HR24.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If you Reset Everything, you will lose all recordings, yes.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

bobcamp1 said:


> My thoughts were similar to this. I thought it was having indigestion processing the next few hours of guide data. By unplugging it you are waiting out the troublesome guide data. When you plug it back in, the DVR realizes it no longer needs to process that troublesome guide data, so it dumps it and gets new guide data and all is well again.
> 
> I think the problems people were/are seeing in this thread are also caused by indigestion of guide data.


Does this actually differ from the double reset within 30 minutes? If so, can someone explain the difference(s)?


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I'm not sure you can "bleed off voltage", it's more about bleeding off "juice". But you've got the right idea. I've only got experience with large caps and they take a long time to discharge, if they discharge at all. Usually I had to short out the caps to get them to discharge. I don't have any idea how my experience has anything to do with the HRs.
> 
> ...again, I'm not sure what leaving them unplugged for long periods of time accomplishes, but it works in some instances. My idea of troubleshooting is "if it works, file it away for future use, and don't worry about why it works." In my job, all those years ago, all the people that called for help wanted was to get the process running again and didn't care how I did it. Used to drive my boss nuts when he'd ask me how I got them running and my reply was, "I'm not really sure."
> 
> Rich


For safety sake, most modern electronics these days have high value resistors across most capacitor leads. This prevents (possible lethal) shocks to repair techs, but also will, over time, bleed off the charge on the capacitors and reset the systems. That is why some people recommend letting the devices go unplugged for a few hours, so all the charges are bled to zero, and anything in the logic that is "stuck" will reset. If the bleed-off resistors are not present, you are correct, capacitors can maintain their charge for a very long time. I have heard of some well made caps still having a potent charge for years. Early televisions were known to kill repairmen. We have learned a few things.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> My thoughts were similar to this. I thought it was having indigestion processing the next few hours of guide data. By unplugging it you are waiting out the troublesome guide data. When you plug it back in, the DVR realizes it no longer needs to process that troublesome guide data, so it dumps it and gets new guide data and all is well again.
> 
> I think the problems people were/are seeing in this thread are also caused by indigestion of guide data.


You might be right. We had problems with the Guide data in the beginning, but I don't remember the problems that it caused then. Makes sense.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ub1934 said:


> I Have been told by " D " that short of getting a new ? HR i was told as a last resort try resetting everything but i think this would put me back to the orjg. sw version & blow away all my settings , apps & my internet & network setup , What do you think i should do ?


That's an act of desperation. I've done it and nothing happened except losing content. Didn't help at all.

Rich


----------



## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

_Thanks to all , i think i will try fo an HR 24 -100 _


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

rich584 said:


> That's a conclusion that many people have come to over the years. And rightly so. Would have been nice to be able to have expansion slots for increased memory, but that would have meant opening the boxes. God forbid we should be allowed to do that. Ever look at the memory cards on the 20-700s? Damned things are armored.
> 
> Rich


There should be a memory chip hardwired to board. During refurbishment, this chip should be upgraded. When doing so, the model should be change from HRxx to HRxxem. The 'em' for enhancement of onboard memory.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> There should be a memory chip hardwired to board. During refurbishment, this chip should be upgraded. When doing so, the model should be change from HRxx to HRxxem. The 'em' for enhancement of onboard memory.


But that would require the contractor to actually do some refurbishing. Something that they don't do now.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I know what you're intending to say, but they do "some" refurbishing, maybe just not to the extent we all wish they would.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I know what you're intending to say, but they do "some" refurbishing, maybe just not to the extent we all wish they would.


The only sign of refurbishing I've ever seen was a couple new doors on a couple HRs. And they wipe the HDDs clean. But I know what you mean.

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> IIRC, *VOS* was the first person to suggest doing this to me. It was years ago at a time when I was desperate and in search of solutions and it actually helped. Sometimes. And if it works, who cares why it works?
> 
> I can tell you this: I don't think it had anything to do with heat, I keep a pretty close eye on the temps of my HRs.
> 
> Rich


I have been told by an Electrician that "Static Electricity" Builds Up and is stored and has to have time to "Bleed Off" and this is normally caused because of Incorrect Grounding of the Dish.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> The only sign of refurbishing I've ever seen was a couple new doors on a couple HRs. And they wipe the HDDs clean. But I know what you mean.
> 
> Rich


I don't think they even check to see if the Problems are Caused by a Bad or Marginal Power Supply Unit which may work Correctly for a few minutes until it Heats Up and begins supplying marginal electrical output which will not fully spin up a Hard Drive and then everyone thinks they have a Bad Hard Drive which in Reality they just have a Marginal Power Supply going Bad.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> For safety sake, most modern electronics these days have high value resistors across most capacitor leads. This prevents (possible lethal) shocks to repair techs, but also will, over time, bleed off the charge on the capacitors and reset the systems. That is why some people recommend letting the devices go unplugged for a few hours, so all the charges are bled to zero, and anything in the logic that is "stuck" will reset. If the bleed-off resistors are not present, you are correct, capacitors can maintain their charge for a very long time. I have heard of some well made caps still having a potent charge for years. Early televisions were known to kill repairmen. We have learned a few things.


The majority of power supplies have large filter caps in them, but they are on the input side. The caps on the output side are smaller, so all the other components should discharge within a few seconds after input power is removed. You still have to be careful poking around near the power supply, but everything else is totally discharged. I wouldn't wait more than 30 seconds.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Does this actually differ from the double reset within 30 minutes? If so, can someone explain the difference(s)?


A double reset flushes the guide data in your DVR. This fixes a corrupted guide data download (bird flying by the dish) or corrupt guide processing (caused by power surge or questionable hardware). Also, since the guide data is changing, D* may catch an error in it and fix it a few hours later. A double reset could fix this too.

But if D* transmits bad guide data and doesn't catch it, flushing it via a double reset won't help. Your DVR will just download bad guide data again. The DVR keeps trying to process it to no avail. It sucks up a lot of (too many) processing cycles making everything else slower. You just have to wait it out. Whether you just live with it or unplug the DVR until D* stops sending the bad guide data is up to you. Eventually, even if D* doesn't catch it, the bad guide data will become obsolete. D* will stop sending it and your DVR will stop trying to process it.

I have seen this happen occasionally with my Tivo. However, it is smart enough to put either error detection or a timeout in its processing. It stops trying after a couple of hours and reports an error, then downloads another guide update 12-24 hours later and tries again. The error is either fixed or eventually disappears on its own. But the DVR becomes "usable" again in the meantime without having to reset it.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks, BC1....

Would this bad guide data be possibly -from time to time- limited to a few channels, perhaps premiums?
I guess I am trying to grok why bad guide data wouldn't mess up a whole slew of HD DVRs.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

rich584 said:


> But that would require the contractor to actually do some refurbishing. Something that they don't do now.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, why repair and improve when new is easier.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I have been told by an Electrician that "Static Electricity" Builds Up and is stored and has to have time to "Bleed Off" and this is normally caused because of Incorrect Grounding of the Dish.


Gotta remember, there's very little sustainable power in static electricity and it dissipates quickly. Being an electrician, I've learned to look askance at what electricians say...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I don't think they even check to see if the Problems are Caused by a Bad or Marginal Power Supply Unit which may work Correctly for a few minutes until it Heats Up and begins supplying marginal electrical output which will not fully spin up a Hard Drive and then everyone thinks they have a Bad Hard Drive which in Reality they just have a Marginal Power Supply going Bad.


I think that message by Stuart was clearly meant to lay off the whole refurbishing thing, and I think that's what I'll do.

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Looking for an explanation of the statement *"(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps"*.
> 
> What is a difference in physics of DVR and its data between 30 sec or 15 min unplugging vs enormous 6 hrs ?


I have a theory from at least two instances I've run across.

The first was with an Intel TX 430 chipset, which had a defect when you installed more than 64 Megs of memory. Someone did this and I ended up with the motherboard, which "was hosed". I tried everything without any luck, so I left it with the battery & BIOS chip removed. When I looked at it again, weeks later, I finally got it to boot up and it worked fine.

Another instance was with a H20 during the initial testing of the SWiM software, once it shifted to SWiM mode, the only way to get it back to legacy mode [needed at this time for downloading software due to being a pre-release SWM8] was to leave it completely unplugged overnight.

I think most understand how 5+ mins may bleed off voltages that 30 secs may not. Now if you follow/extend the same "logic" to a complex chip, there may be a gate that is hanging in the wrong state, due to the smallest voltage being stored inside the chip. Over the extended time, this voltage slowly bleeds off, allowing the gate to return to the proper state.

Clearly this can't be "proved", but there are times that it works. 
Since I don't believe in magic, I try to find a mechanism that could explain it, hence "my theory".


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> I don't think they even check to see if the Problems are Caused by a Bad or Marginal Power Supply Unit which may work Correctly for a few minutes until it Heats Up and begins supplying marginal electrical output which will not fully spin up a Hard Drive and then everyone thinks they have a Bad Hard Drive which in Reality they just have a Marginal Power Supply going Bad.


DirecTV has made improvements to their refurbishing process.
I've seen a tour of one of their contractor's facilities. Is their process perfect? Not in my opinion, but then I have years of experience in this field. Even in the aerospace field, "perfect" isn't an option.
Being consumer products, these are screened to determine levels of inspection and testing, before being returned to the field.
Does the contractor have the ability/resources/intent to send out quality units? Yes, but like everything it comes down to cost/unit. If a unit is suspected of having a technical problem, then it goes through an additional eight hours of testing, which significantly adds to the cost.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Cleaning CMOS is not the example as it's built for withstand pretty long power interruption, hence internal capacitors and very small loads [nA].

'Stuck' gate fall into different category - just look at design of it in silicon, the gate is not memory type element. Imagine, a transistor does 'stuck' - no one will take such explanation. Gate is the same transistor, but small.



veryoldschool said:


> I have a theory from at least two instances I've run across.
> 
> The first was with an Intel TX 430 chipset, which had a defect when you installed more than 64 Megs of memory. Someone did this and I ended up with the motherboard, which "was hosed". I tried everything without any luck, so I left it with the battery & BIOS chip removed. When I looked at it again, weeks later, I finally got it to boot up and it worked fine.
> 
> ...


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

richierich said:


> I have been told by an Electrician that "Static Electricity" Builds Up and is stored and has to have time to "Bleed Off" and this is normally caused because of Incorrect Grounding of the Dish.


Could this 'bleed off' be responsible for the slow response when DVRs are first turn on?

BTW, that slowness after turn on, seems to be getting worst for me again as anything beyond up and down is near impossible to achieve for the first few minutes.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Drucifer said:


> Could this 'bleed off' be responsible for the slow response when DVRs are first turn on?
> 
> BTW, that slowness after turn on, seems to be getting worst for me again as anything beyond up and down is near impossible to achieve for the first few minutes.


Less likely if not totally irrelevant. To answer to your question, we need compare timestamps in two debug logs, one for that version with normal boot speed and current. But it possible for DTV engineers, we can't.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> 'Stuck' gate fall into different category - just look at design of it in silicon, the gate is not memory type element. Imagine, a transistor does 'stuck' - no one will take such explanation. Gate is the same transistor, but small.


I worked for a while at a chip maker, so have "some idea" of what's inside.
While "my logic" may not work for you, if a transistor is "held high" by some small voltage, due to the capacitance on the trace, the gate will have the wrong state.
This is how some of these seem to work. While there may be another root cause, until that is found, this "logic" does explain it.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Could this 'bleed off' be responsible for the slow response when DVRs are first turn on?
> 
> BTW, that slowness after turn on, seems to be getting worst for me again as anything beyond up and down is near impossible to achieve for the first few minutes.





P Smith said:


> Less likely if not totally irrelevant. To answer to your question, we need compare timestamps in two debug logs, one for that version with normal boot speed and current. But it possible for DTV engineers, we can't.


I'd also have to agree that "bleed off" has nothing to do with this. Even when it is the problem, it's so rare, or in such rare cases, that it wouldn't be as prevalent as what this tread is about.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> I worked for a while at a chip maker, so have "some idea" of what's inside.
> While "my logic" may not work for you, if a transistor is "held high" by some small voltage, due to the capacitance on the trace, the gate will have the wrong state.
> This is how some of these seem to work. While there may be another root cause, until that is found, this "logic" does explain it.


That's helpful to know ... 
We can continue. As you aware, transistors are controlling by current (not as tubes by voltage, FET is other kind - usually you will not find it in logic circuits) and it has a leakage. The capacitance in traces are designed to minimum (you knew it too), so the time to discharge (remember - there are many many gates) wouldn't be 6 hrs.

I'm agree: *the our aspect's 'geek' discussion have nothing to do with slow DVRs.*
:backtotop:


----------



## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Drucifer said:


> Could this 'bleed off' be responsible for the slow response when DVRs are first turn on?
> 
> BTW, that slowness after turn on, seems to be getting worst for me again as anything beyond up and down is near impossible to achieve for the first few minutes.


It has been mentioned here in other threads that LCD TVs cause a lot of interference when first turned on. I have a Media Center PC close to my 52" Samsung. When I turn the TV on, the red led in the Media Center IR pickup will blink for up to a minute, even though I am not using any remotes. Depending on the type of TV you have, that may be a factor. I usually just don't try to input anything for 30 seconds or so.


----------



## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Well, I did the restart "fix" a couple of weeks ago .....DVR worked so much better. Really fast and responsive. But now the last few days it's acting up again. Slow to get to menu's .......unresponsive. Tried to restart again but didnt help. Oh well it was good while it lasted.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Groundhog45 said:


> It has been mentioned here in other threads that LCD TVs cause a lot of interference when first turned on. I have a Media Center PC close to my 52" Samsung. When I turn the TV on, the red led in the Media Center IR pickup will blink for up to a minute, even though I am not using any remotes. Depending on the type of TV you have, that may be a factor. I usually just don't try to input anything for 30 seconds or so.


That could be it. My LR LCD is the largest and nearest to the box.

It was reported the screen brightness was the main cause. It was at 50 and I have reduced it twice. It's now at 30. Have not notice any change in the remote. So I wont reduce it anymore.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> That could be it. My LR LCD is the largest and nearest to the box.
> 
> It was reported the screen brightness was the main cause. It was at 50 and I have reduced it twice. It's now at 30. Have not notice any change in the remote. So I wont reduce it anymore.


My LCD would cause interference and I had to wait about 5 minutes or point the remote at weird angels.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, BC1....
> 
> Would this bad guide data be possibly -from time to time- limited to a few channels, perhaps premiums?
> I guess I am trying to grok why bad guide data wouldn't mess up a whole slew of HD DVRs.


It could. Bad guide data processing can also depend on what you're trying to record. Fixing it could be as simple as rearranging the priorities in your series links, or deleting some old links (that worked in Tivos). That would make the DVR process the guide data differently, and if you're lucky it can work around the problem.

I think many DVRs aren't having problems because they don't have to process that weird part of the guide data. I don't know if D* intentionally put some new feature in and the DVRs can't handle it, or if the guide data has been genuinely corrupt lately. But the D* fixes have been a single reboot, an quick emergency software update, then a single reboot. I'm guessing the update was an attempt to fix the bug. I think the two resets were recommended after D* changed something in the guide data, and the reset just stopped any runaway processes inside the DVR.

If you are having this problem, perhaps you could try cutting back on the number of series links or rearranging their priority. And make them simple -- don't use those fancy logic keywords. It would be interesting to see if your problems go away.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Most likely, latest changes in FW done in favor of other tasks, remote control and EPG moved down in priority list.

Perhaps those new or updated tasks require more RAM and left less memory for EPG records, perhaps whole EPG structure is reside on a drive and therefore slow down other tasks when often call for the drive access. That was simple speculation... if we could watch the processes ... get command prompt (telnet ?), run some Linux tools ...


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Most likely, latest changes in FW done in favor of other tasks, remote control and EPG moved down in priority list.
> 
> Perhaps those new or updated tasks require more RAM and left less memory for EPG records, perhaps whole EPG structure is reside on a drive and therefore slow down other tasks when often call for the drive access. That was simple speculation... if we could watch the processes ... get command prompt (telnet ?), run some Linux tools ...


I'd hope the remote moved UP in priority list. The GUI must be quick and responsive, or people will immediately complain. Just look at this thread.

As far as Linux goes, this is its major downfall. It's just so much easier to do this kind of troubleshooting in a genuine embedded RTOS like VxWorks. Linux wasn't designed for this role -- it got shoehorned into this role because of its lack of upfront cost. But you spend man years tweaking the thing to get it right, assuming you can get it right at all. VxWorks costs a fortune, but you make it up on the end of the project.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Just for gig: one DB (APG) file have size 300+ MB on and stored on DVR's drive ...


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Looking for an explanation of the statement *"(2) unplug it for at least 6 hours and see if that helps"*.
> 
> What is a difference in physics of DVR and its data between 30 sec or 15 min unplugging vs enormous 6 hrs ?


I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't have any idea why "the long unplug" works. But I can tell you that it does, and this is personal, empirical experience.

I do know that when I used to work with TVs and video projection equipment in the 1980s that they would retain a charge for several hours after they were unplugged, enough to give you a nasty buzz if you touched the wrong thing.

I'm not suggesting that DVRs have picture tubes, only that some things clearly hold on to power for a long while.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't have any idea why "the long unplug" works. But I can tell you that it does, and this is personal, empirical experience.
> 
> I do know that when I used to work with TVs and video projection equipment in the 1980s that they would retain a charge for several hours after they were unplugged, enough to give you a nasty buzz if you touched the wrong thing.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that DVRs have picture tubes, only that some things clearly hold on to power for a long while.


The difference here is high voltage power supplies [for the CRTs], verses very low voltage multi-layered/complex chips.

If Mr. Smith is old enough to have had to deal with banks of relays and their "logic", he might see the parallel between a stuck relay and these problems with chips. Where with the relay you can either replace it, or tap it to un-stick it, with the chip, you simply need to wait for the voltage to bleed off.


----------



## SkippyJasper (Nov 19, 2007)

My problem has been solved. Refurbished HR22. Things normal again.


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

The problem is solved for me also and I didn't do anything to solve it. About 10 or 12 days ago my HR23 started working as it should and it's still OK. Prior to that it had been virtually unusable at times. I don't know what went wrong or what went right but there was certainly a change.

New software upgrade on Wednesday 8/10, 0x4d1, no problems from that yet either.

Hope it continues the way it is. :up:


----------



## Special Ed (Oct 26, 2007)

I called today about a showtime upgrade billing error and the rep was being helpful, took $15 a month off my bill for a year then said I was eligible for a free brand new HD DVR.

I said I did not want a new location but if I could get the latest and greatest HD DVR as a replacement for one of my super slow 3 or 4 year old HD DVRs I would do that. She said fine and they are shipping one to me and I'll ship my old one back. 

I am wondering if I'll really get the latest and greatest HD DVR or just a replacement of my current model. If so, it will go right back to them as there is no reason to lose all of my programming for the same model.

So I started with a billing error and have a new DVR coming - am I wasting my time because they are all slow or do they have new models that are faster? What model HD-DVR should I be expecting? The CS rep did not know, just said it was there latest and best one.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It would be fast if it will come as HR25, but your chances are slim - CSR promise is Fata Morgana.


----------



## Special Ed (Oct 26, 2007)

P Smith said:


> It would be fast if it will come as HR25, but your chances are slim - CSR promise is Fata Morgana.


Ok, so the HR25s are the latest and greatest. If I get anything else I'll call complain and return it immediately.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Let us know what you'll get ...


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Special Ed said:


> Ok, so the HR25s are the latest and greatest. If I get anything else I'll call complain and return it immediately.


HR24 are the newest DVR...H25 are the newest non DVR. I'm not sure wher PSmith got HR25 from.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> HR24 are the newest DVR...H25 are the newest non DVR. I'm not sure wher PSmith got HR25 from.


One key to the right as he was typing. :lol:


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sigma1914 said:


> HR24 are the newest DVR...H25 are the newest non DVR. I'm not sure wher PSmith got HR25 from.


One bird sang to me ... some guy(s) [will] testing such ...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> One bird sang to me ... some guy(s) [will] testing such ...


Ask "your guy" if it records [anything] :lol:


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, then I need to call the birdy first ...  not an easy task.


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I thought this had been fixed but here we are again with the guide taking 30 seconds to minute to come up and scrolling through the guide is like walking through mud. Haven't seen this issue for a couple weeks now. Had hoped all that was over. Really just what is going on with these things. After seeing the videos of these people who have Dish dvrs I'm really frustrated with this.


----------



## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

This time the NVRAM clear didn't work, had to do the red button reset. I'm really tired of these things!


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

pappasbike said:


> I thought this had been fixed but here we are again with the guide taking 30 seconds to minute to come up and scrolling through the guide is like walking through mud. Haven't seen this issue for a couple weeks now. Had hoped all that was over. Really just what is going on with these things. After seeing the videos of these people who have Dish dvrs I'm really frustrated with this.


I noticed a big slowdown yesterday on my HR20-700. Also, my TV Apps came up as "unavailable" again.

Reset seemed to fix both problems, but I'm getting tired of DirecTV's failure to fix the problem permanently :nono2:

Even Charter's DVR at our vacation rental house was faster than this...


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, my HR20-700 is incredibly slow doing anything related to the guide. It's not a software update so I assume DirecTv has screwed up the guide data again....


----------



## Special Ed (Oct 26, 2007)

I got an HR-22 in via fedex yesterday. Since this is not the latest model like was promised, I'll be sending this back. Or should a keep the HR-22?



Special Ed said:


> I called today about a showtime upgrade billing error and the rep was being helpful, took $15 a month off my bill for a year then said I was eligible for a free brand new HD DVR.
> 
> I said I did not want a new location but if I could get the latest and greatest HD DVR as a replacement for one of my super slow 3 or 4 year old HD DVRs I would do that. She said fine and they are shipping one to me and I'll ship my old one back.
> 
> ...


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

As has been posted many times, the CSR can't guarantee which DVR you get.


----------



## Special Ed (Oct 26, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> As has been posted many times, the CSR can't guarantee which DVR you get.


They do guarantee what DVR, they just don't fulfill the guarantee. Getting me on a new two year contract was the important thing for her to accomplish.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Special Ed said:


> They do guarantee what DVR, they just don't fulfill the guarantee. Getting me on a new two year contract was the important thing for her to accomplish.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Special Ed said:


> They do guarantee what DVR, they just don't fulfill the guarantee. Getting me on a new two year contract was the important thing for her to accomplish.


sigma1914 beat me to it, with the link.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Special Ed said:


> They do guarantee what DVR, they just don't fulfill the guarantee. Getting me on a new two year contract was the important thing for her to accomplish.


When negotiating with a CSR always get their ID number.


----------



## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

pappasbike said:


> I thought this had been fixed but here we are again with the guide taking 30 seconds to minute to come up and scrolling through the guide is like walking through mud. Haven't seen this issue for a couple weeks now. Had hoped all that was over.


Yep. The last few days it's back to taking 15 seconds or more to make the first channel change (I don't use standy) and guide AFU. HR20-700s :nono2:


----------



## Inches (Jan 5, 2005)

I guess I lucked out, I called complaining about my HR20 rebooting on its own and the constant disk thrashing. The CSR looked over my record and decided to send out a tech at no charge. When the tech arrived I explained what was going on and with out asking he said he'd replace my HR20 and I got a HR24! To coin a phrase "That was easy"


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Guys, I'm going to close this thread as it seems to have veered off the topic. Please continue discussion of performance issues here.


----------

