# When Dish Adds more HD...



## space86 (May 4, 2007)

will my VIP 622 be able to access the new channels ?


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Yes, as long as you are subscribed to the tier that contains the new channels.


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## Gilitar (Aug 1, 2004)

The ViP 622 is an MPEG4 reciever so any new HD feeds on any of E* sats you are pointing at would be available.


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## LinkNuc (Jul 4, 2007)

Pigs will fly, sorry couldn't resist. 

But yes you will see and/or be able to access them in your guide, if you subscribe to them or if you don't subscribe, when you switch to all channels on your guide (by pressing the guide buton to toggle to "All Chan" or "all HD") you'll see them


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## himini (Feb 13, 2007)

Sorry to ask such a dumb question, but if and when the new satellites are up, we'll be needing new dish antennas installed with more LNBs, right? None of the new satellites would be "replacement" birds (with more bandwidth somehow) in the exact same spot in the sky, right?


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

They are replacements for the existing locations and will take the place of some of them. The others will be kept close in case of any problems that may arise. You will not need any new equipment, nor will any need to be replaced.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

himini said:


> Sorry to ask such a dumb question, but if and when the new satellites are up, we'll be needing new dish antennas installed with more LNBs, right? None of the new satellites would be "replacement" birds (with more bandwidth somehow) in the exact same spot in the sky, right?


All three of the announced Echostar satellite launches in 2008 are replacements for existing birds, at 61.5, 110, and 129. They won't be adding any significant bandwidth.

For comparison, DirecTV's launches over the last couple of years were to new orbital locations and used different frequencies, allowing significant additional bandwidth, but requiring new equipment (dishes and receivers) to receive it. The new dishes were being installed months before the first of these satellites went live, and the last one, 18 months later, is just being launched.

DishNetwork doesn't have any new dish designs in the field, and none have been announced, so it doesn't appear, at this time, that there will be any new orbital locations in the near future. Having said that, no one can say what is going on in the boardrooms. The AT&T factor could also change things (for better or worse).


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

IIP said:


> All three of the announced Echostar satellite launches in 2008 are replacements for existing birds, at 61.5, 110, and 129. They won't be adding any significant bandwidth.
> 
> For comparison, DirecTV's launches over the last couple of years were to new orbital locations and used different frequencies, allowing significant additional bandwidth, but requiring new equipment (dishes and receivers) to receive it. The new dishes were being installed months before the first of these satellites went live, and the last one, 18 months later, is just being launched.
> 
> DishNetwork doesn't have any new dish designs in the field, and none have been announced, so it doesn't appear, at this time, that there will be any new orbital locations in the near future. Having said that, no one can say what is going on in the boardrooms. The AT&T factor could also change things (for better or worse).


I disagree. First of all more than one bird can stack into an existing slot.

Second, One of the launches was supposed to go into the 77° slot I believe.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ssmith10pn said:


> I disagree. First of all more than one bird can stack into an existing slot.
> 
> Second, One of the launches was supposed to go into the 77° slot I believe.


I'll agree with your disagreement but raise differing points. 

Yes, multiple satellites can be at the same slot but there are only so many licenses available. Even 20 DBS satellites in one place doesn't help. Once the licenses are covered all they can do is seek to improve their use of the licenses, perhaps via spotbeams or higher power, but no instant increase in space.

Only D* most recent launches, D10 and soon D11, are new space ... new bands being opened up not just improving the old space. DirecTV went through their phase of replacing DBS satellites with better DBS satellites - perhaps being a slightly older system put those changes slightly ahead of what E* is doing this year.

E* did most of it's additional bandwidth launches back in 2003 and 2004 ... their most recent additional bandwidth addition was leasing 118° FSS. E* has PLENTY of raw bandwidth ... in the DBS band E* has at least 128 DBS transponders at various locations plus 1500 MHz of Ku FSS space at three locations. D* is limited to about 62 DBS transponders plus Ka FSS space.

This year's launches are intended to help them use that bandwidth better - without requiring new dishes. E11 will boost ConUS power at 110° and better cover Alaska and Hawaii (more power may lead to more channels per transponder). AMC-14 will replace the dying E3 at 61.5° and allow E* to use all of it's transponders there (an immediate bandwidth increase of four transponders, due to E3 failures - but generally more power and a 'repair' mission). Ciel will replace E5 at 129° - that will be the biggest opportunity for improvement.

What is done with the old satellites may or may not help and bandwidth. E11 will free up E8 to be a spare and perhaps E6 (the current spare at 110°) will go help E6 at 129° so we're not waiting for Ciel. E3 may go to 77° to provide a few transponders there (but they may not be on the normal DISH network service).

In any case, E*'s launches are important for the long term health of DISH more than just a few more channels.

105° and 121° are still available ... and becoming more available as channels move to 118°. Perhaps we will see that design revived. Perhaps not. With 128+ DBS transponders E* should be able to do fine on traditional DBS satellites.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

I believe 105 and 121 are going to be used to carry different programming specificly designed to feed commercial head-end systems. There was an announcement to that effect a couple of months ago, if I'm remembering correctly.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

So, 4 currently-dead transponders will go live when 61.5 is replaced, and at least a couple on 129 when it is replaced. Due to their orbital locations, I'd guess that the same programming will be on these new transponders on both sats, given that 61.5 is mostly for east-coast coverage and 129 mostly mid and west-coast coverage.

So, yes, we're looking at a likely 20-24 additional channels (if they are all MPEG4/HD). But many people seem to be under the misunderstanding that this year's launches are all "new space", and that was what I was trying to clarify.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Agreed ... not new space but better use of the space they own.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

James you touched on something I have wondered about and thats why they aren't using 105 and 121 unless they are only licensed for FSS. Just seems to make better sense to keep the birds closer to the center of the continent for better LOS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

105 and 121 are just FSS ... no DBS licenses at those locations.

E* still has 500 MHz (total) at each location for their use. The SuperDishes were not perfect, but they are designed and ready to roll, but I suspect there will be more private feeds on 105 and 121 than feeds that will be part of the DISH Network offering. Content that is better off there then burning up space on DBS satellites.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

I was also wondering wht the logic is in having two sets of birds for HD, one east and one west coast, instead of one set in the middle of the US.

It has to cost a ton more to keep both sets up and operating and does not seem to make much sense as far as being efficient.

Are there no slots available in the middle of the US?
Do they do this so they can cover Hawaii and Alaska?

Was this just due to them grabbing available slots as they popped up and it's too difficult to either move them or apply for new licenses?

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The original plan for DBS was to have two sets of satellites. Eight orbital locations are officially assigned to the US by the International Telecommunications Union for DBS. The initial assignments for DBS was equal transponders on east satellites and west satellites.

The east satellites were at 61.5°, 101°, 110° and 119°. The west satellites were to be at 148°, 157°, 166° and 175°. The early licensees built their east locations and found that they could serve most of the US from those locations (especially 101°-119°). Most allowed their western locations to go unbuilt with those permits expiring. (EchoStar bought additional space at 148° and kept eight of their original 11 "west" assigned transponders active. Everyone else abandoned the west.)

For many years EchoStar used 110° and 119° as their central location ... with 119° being the primary location and 110° being used for additional locals, Spanish and AT250 level channels. That division faded a couple of years ago and now a Dish500 is required for all levels of service (unless one wants to be missing channels). The "wing" locations at 61.5° and 148° were used for internationals and (when it was permitted) "extra" local channels.

The current situation has turned into a "central" satellite location of 101°-119°. 129° is low on the horizon for east coast subscribers and 61.5° is available so it works out nicely to have 61.5° available. The new map still has 110° and 119° as the central location but moves the west wing in to 129° for HD (and able to be captured on one dish in most cases).

What will happen to 148° is now the question ... not as important as keeping current subscribers and HD desiring folks happy, but EchoStar has their two oldest satellites holding position at 148° and 29 unbulit transponders at 157°. It would be a very good thing to put that location to good use serving Alaska and Hawaii and perhaps the western US. If they were to populate 148° with west coast timed feeds that would even me better.

It is one of the advantages DISH has in the long run. Getting there won't be easy or cheap, but at least they have the locations to work with. DirecTV _will_ run out of bandwidth at some point. That is the nature of the business. DISH has the bandwidth ready to go as soon as they can build and launch the satellites.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

James Long said:


> The current situation has turned into a "central" satellite location of 101°-119°. 129° is low on the horizon for east coast subscribers and 61.5° is available so it works out nicely to have 61.5° available. The new map still has 110° and 119° as the central location but moves the west wing in to 129° for HD (and able to be captured on one dish in most cases).


So do you see 129 staying in play for the forseeable future? If so, I guess I'm never going to see my RSN in HD.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

129° and 61.5° will stay "in play". Hopefully DISH will get the message and put the South Texas RSNs on 61.5° (since 129° doesn't quite reach). I hope they are not just waiting for 129°'s replacement!

If DISH lights up spots on 61.5° to serve Texas they will need to put the RSN over there as well. So it isn't a completely hopeless situation. One way or the other, it will be fixed.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

James Long said:


> 129° and 61.5° will stay "in play". Hopefully DISH will get the message and put the South Texas RSNs on 61.5° (since 129° doesn't quite reach). I hope they are not just waiting for 129°'s replacement!
> 
> If DISH lights up spots on 61.5° to serve Texas they will need to put the RSN over there as well. So it isn't a completely hopeless situation. One way or the other, it will be fixed.


Thanks! I was just looking at the EKB and it appears that Fox Sports Pittsburgh is on both 61.5 (378/8) and 129 (378/20).


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> 129° and 61.5° will stay "in play". Hopefully DISH will get the message and put the South Texas RSNs on 61.5° (since 129° doesn't quite reach). I hope they are not just waiting for 129°'s replacement!
> 
> If DISH lights up spots on 61.5° to serve Texas they will need to put the RSN over there as well. So it isn't a completely hopeless situation. One way or the other, it will be fixed.


Hmmm thanks for all the great info!

I'm in Chicago and I'm pretty sure I'm on 129... will have to check. I know I'm in a sort of grey area and I could prob do either 61.5 or 129 but at the time on install I just let them do whatever they wanted. My HD comes in just fine but the signal is far weaker than the other channels.

It was my understanding that this is more an issue with a weak Sat signal rather than me being on the wrong Sat.

I was curious then Texas was mentioned as being 61.5 as they are a bit further west than Chicago.

Am I at the wrong spot?

-JB


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

jrb531 said:


> I was curious then Texas was mentioned as being 61.5 as they are a bit further west than Chicago.
> 
> Am I at the wrong spot?
> 
> -JB


I'm in south Texas and I get 61.5 just fine. Unfortunately our FSN (Fox Sports Southwest) is on 129 and I live just below the line of latitude that marks the "blind spot" for 129. I do know a guy who lives here who gets it, but he has his own 30" dish, and he lives on Padre Island with a fairly unobstructed view of the horizon.


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## g182237 (Sep 11, 2006)

They won't be giving any of it to HI, AK, V.I., or Puerto Rico. They simply do not care about us.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Wait for E-11. The new satellite will improve coverage over HI, VI and PR to the same levels that is provided over the US. (and decent levels in AK). The special 10 pack HD at 110° can go away ... or grow into a much bigger package.

See http://jameslong.name/e110.html for the new coverage.

E-11 is probably 5-6 months away from service. Launch problems last year delayed the planned November launch and December in service dates.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> Hmmm thanks for all the great info!
> 
> I'm in Chicago and I'm pretty sure I'm on 129... will have to check. I know I'm in a sort of grey area and I could prob do either 61.5 or 129 but at the time on install I just let them do whatever they wanted. My HD comes in just fine but the signal is far weaker than the other channels.
> 
> ...


Pretty easy to tell if your on 129.
110/119/129 is the only one dish solution. If you were on 61.5 you have a second dish pointing east-southeast.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

ssmith10pn said:


> Pretty easy to tell if your on 129.
> 110/119/129 is the only one dish solution. If you were on 61.5 you have a second dish pointing east-southeast.


Ok then I'm on 110/119/129.

I used to have 2 dishes (1 for 2nd set of chicago locals) but when they came and installed HD they removed the 61.5 and installed one Dish for all three. I think a Dish 1000 or something.

Now should I have insisted I keep the 61.5 for Chicago or is 129 in Chicago good enough?

Thanks

-JB


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Also, when the new satellites are in place at 61.5 and 129, all of those transponders that are being used for HD LiL (represented by 'N') can move to spotbeams. That could free up 'N'-1 transponders for national HD at each slot.


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