# e*/oln Hockey dispute??



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Does anybody know anything about that situation?? On the positive side...monday's hockey game is not blacked out!!!!!


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

OLN should not have ANY blackouts for either team, they have exclusive rights.


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

juan ellitinez said:


> Does anybody know anything about that situation?? On the positive side...monday's hockey game is not blacked out!!!!!


What situation? Haven't heard about any dispute with OLN and E* other than a bogus post that someone made a couple of weeks ago.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Maybe OLN and Dish are working on HD carriage. Or Dish is mad that INHD has the HD games and INHD of course is cable-only right now. oooooo I smell something now.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

AFAIK all is copacetic between Dish and OLN. I've not heard anything to the contrary.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

There were a couple newspaper article's around that suggested there was some sort of conflict between e* and comcrap over what tier of service would be offered in !!! Cable co's could not just offer it in their digital tier/sprts pack (think cablevision) and satellite co's had to offer it to atleast 40% of their subs!!!


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

juan ellitinez said:


> There were a couple newspaper article's around that suggested there was some sort of conflict between e* and comcrap over what tier of service would be offered in !!! Cable co's could not just offer it in their digital tier/sprts pack (think cablevision) and satellite co's had to offer it to atleast 40% of their subs!!!


That was bogus.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Hey Dish offers it to 100% of their customer base with no extra equipment neessary. If the customers don't want to pay for it, that is up to them!!!

See ya
Tony


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

There are provisions on the OLN mux to have OLN without NHL. Perhaps an alternate situation, but there has also been talk that OLN does not have national exclusivity on many of the games they will televise.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnH said:


> There are provisions on the OLN mux to have OLN without NHL. Perhaps an alternate situation, but there has also been talk that OLN does not have national exclusivity on many of the games they will televise.


There is a difference between national exclusivity and national rights. As long as OLN has national rights they don't have to be exclusive. They just have to accept that others may be carrying the same games.

JL


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, the rumor is apparently true. The NHL Pengiuins at Sabres is not on DiSH Network, But on DIRECTV and Comcast Cable. Comcast Cable is having sound problems.

I have the HD feed from C Band.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

I guess this is the NHL's way of saying "Thank You Fans!".


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Re: Pens @ Sabers: What about NHLCI on Dish?


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

The game is not on CI either.

Great - so I upgraded to AT180 to get OLN, and now the game isn't on.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Michael P said:


> Re: Pens @ Sabers: What about NHLCI on Dish?


That game is an OLN exclusive. Not in Center Ice.


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## akw4572 (Sep 8, 2005)

I don't have the game on OLN either.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Dish is holding out to get CSN-Philadelphia and INHD and INHD2. Ooooh i'm getting all moist.


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## drsimnal (Sep 26, 2004)

I upgraded yest to AT180 just to get OLN. I was very excited about the pens game, but at 7pm all i got was crab fishing. My first call to Dish CSR I was told the game might be starting late. After I discovered it really was being played, my second call the CSR told me they were having trouble with the feed and that it (the game) would be broadcast later. What is going to happen? I don't want to stay with AT180 if I can't even see the hockey games they are supposed to be playing.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Are you kidding about CSN-Philadelphia, INHD and INHD2? I would pay Dish a premium for
these channels. However, Comcast requires that CSN-Philadelphia be picked up by 90
percent of the Philadelphia DMA subscribers.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

CSN Philly is the benefactor of the terrestrial loophole. Due to their former incarnation as Prism (an old landline closed circuit system that didn't transmit their signal via satellite), they DON'T have to follow antitrust rules and make their signal available to satellite subscribers.

Don't wait for this to go away until the FCC forces them to make it do so (and since the FCC is enamored with Cable and the NAB, don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen).


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

Was the Pens - Sabres game available to locals viewers on FSN-Pitt and MSG? If so, I hope Dish tells OLN to take a flying leap.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

jrbdmb said:


> Was the Pens - Sabres game available to locals viewers on FSN-Pitt and MSG? If so, I hope Dish tells OLN to take a flying leap.


Nope. It was an OLN exclusive.


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## irishman1952 (Apr 13, 2005)

We did not have the game. I sent a couple of e mails to OLN asking about this PROBLEM and have not recieved a reply...now on to e mailing Dish......


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I don't have top-180 but I can see the "all chan" EPG. The hockey game in question was in the E* EPG on my 921.

When a similar dispute happened between FSN Ohio and E* the affected games (Cleveland Indians, '03 season I believe) were not in the EPG.


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

JohnH said:


> Well, the rumor is apparently true. The NHL Pengiuins at Sabres is not on DiSH Network, But on DIRECTV and Comcast Cable. Comcast Cable is having sound problems.
> 
> I have the HD feed from C Band.


It was also not on Fox SPorts Pittsburgh, I just assumed they had moved the game to another day since the Steelers were on Monday Night Football.


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

It was also not on NHL 's season ticket (or whatever it is called) are you SURE there was a game ?


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

obrienaj said:


> It was also not on NHL 's season ticket (or whatever it is called) are you SURE there was a game ?


Yes, OLN did in fact carry the game ... E* subscribers didn't get the feed for some strange reason. It wasn't on NHL Center Ice because OLN has broadcast exclusivity on their Monday and Tuesday night games. So, if either team that plays the OLN-only games is not one of your local market teams, you will not get the OLN feed.

I would advise anyone that cares about this issue should send emails on a daily basis to the NHL and to OLN. Pester the crap out of them because E* is not going to make OLN available to everyone. It's a niche network and I don't think it is a big enough draw for E* to care about moving down to the AT60 level.


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

No hockey on OLN tonight on E*.Just say OLN Programming in EPG.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

That game was listed earlier today when I checked the EPG - and now it says "OLN Programming". Yet, a replay of the game is still listed in the guide at 8pm PDT.

What is going on here? 

Update - it is now game-time and the game is not on.


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## Joe Bernardi (May 27, 2003)

Hockey is MIA again tonight on OLN. They were supposed to air Phoenix at Dallas. Instead there's some animal program.


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## ToolmansTools (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm in Dallas, and I'm watching the top 25 hardest animals to hunt, rather than my beloved Stars. The Dish CSR says, "we're having trouble with that signal and we're working on it. Please wait a few more minutes."

Since they obviously had this problem last night, I think a few more days is more likely.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

Now I'm really confused

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/10/237906.html

OLN is claiming technical problems with Monday's game. Is dish carrying the games or not?


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Phoenix/Dallas is on TSN in Canada, I think the CI package should show the game is OLN is not letting Dish have the game.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

All I can say with certainty is that on opening night, the game was on OLN & I watched it. Then I left on a trip to Chicago and last night was the first time I had tuned back in to OLN to see a game - and it was not on.

And now, tonight's game is not on. 

:bang

Having trouble with the signal? Baloney! They removed it from the program guide!


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

For those who may doubt, the NHL game was on OLN last night and is on OLN tonight as advertised. The games are not on the version of OLN being provided to DiSH Network because of a carriage dispute in which OLN is apparently wanting OLN in a package which has at least 40% of the DiSH Network subscribers 

I would not expect Charlie to say, Hey that's cool. Here is a few million dollars. Let the good times roll. More Bull Riding for everyone.

At end of 1, it is Phoenix 0, Dallas 1.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Well, then I guess it's one or two more days of free CI, then I'll see games on HDNET until this is resolved.

If it is ever resolved :icon_cry:


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

cicijay said:


> Now I'm really confused
> 
> http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/10/237906.html
> 
> OLN is claiming technical problems with Monday's game. Is dish carrying the games or not?


The technical problems being referred to here may be a problem with the audio or some other Mpeg anomolies. Comcast Cable here has an audio hiccup tonight and had it last night. DirecTV has no problem.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

At 8 it says OLN programming. At 11:30 a game is listed. Let's see what is on then.


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

There is no chance of Dish putting TSN version of the game in center ice.OLN has exclusive broadcast rights to the game.Besides TSN is using OLN feed.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Geronimo said:


> At 8 it says OLN programming. At 11:30 a game is listed. Let's see what is on then.


It says OLN Programming at 11:30 also. Many of the EPGs are not updated for this change. As "current and next" progresses the change will showup.


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## ADRider (Aug 19, 2005)

All I know is the Phoenix game is not on right now for me, , some BS "OLN Programing" fishing show :nono2:


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

It says NHL Hockey on my EPG. And when I hit info that is the PHoenix Dallas game. I have no idea since that was an early game.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yeah. check it again at 11:10 pm.


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## ADRider (Aug 19, 2005)

So it`s taped delayed then, the game is being played now, score is tied 1-1.

Unbelievable :nono:


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yeah, a replay which will not make DiSH Network either.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnH said:


> Yeah. check it again at 11:10 pm.


Or amybe at 11:30. I am curious to see if we are getting the tape delays.


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## Chris Walker (May 19, 2004)

E* should file a lawsuit against OLN for breaking their contract to provide their programming. That or they should say either provide us with the correct content, or we will drop your channel immediately. Neither the NHL or OLN are popular enough at the given time to "force" anyone to do anything. I guarantee OLN would change their tune if Dish and the cable companies dropped them, losing 30-40 million subscribers overnight would wake them up real fast.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

It would be nice to hear a statement from Dish? 2 days in a row now and NOTHING!


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Not a whole lot is clear right now. I mean different people are seeing different things in the EPG. We do not know that OLN broke any contract. We don't even know if this is a temporary or permanent situation---or even what is on at 11:30 ET.

Yes the NHL should want widespread carriage----but they have made odd decisions before and right about now the NHL is not exactly the most popular girl at the dance. IF Comcast wants to play hardball with this asset they can. Sadly though I don't see many people switching providers because of hockey.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Final Phoenix 2, Dallas 3.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnH said:


> Yeah. check it again at 11:10 pm.


At 11:01 it switched to OLN programming. I don't know what thtat tells us except that we get no game tonight. But it did change.


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

Chris Walker said:


> E* should file a lawsuit against OLN for breaking their contract to provide their programming. That or they should say either provide us with the correct content, or we will drop your channel immediately. Neither the NHL or OLN are popular enough at the given time to "force" anyone to do anything. I guarantee OLN would change their tune if Dish and the cable companies dropped them, losing 30-40 million subscribers overnight would wake them up real fast.


I am ABSOLUTELY in agreement. Basically, OLN hasn't cared about where carriers have placed their channel and is now trying to use hockey as blackmail. Hmmm, let me get this straight ... ESPN dumped hockey because dog shows were getting better ratings than hockey ... so now OLN thinks they can use hockey as a bargaining chip?

According to the New York Times, Comcast Corp., the owner of OLN, will pay $65 million this season and $70 million in 2006-07. Gee, the geniuses at Comcast and OLN have figured out that the fastest way they can recoup their investment is to cut off people from viewing it. Absolutely brilliant.

Who's running OLN, Mike "Brownie" Brown????


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

JohnH said:


> Final Phoenix 2, Dallas 3.


What an absolutely brilliant blackout...er game. Uh, vice versa


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

I agree that OLN is wrong to withhold the games to get in a better package.But why is this a continual problem with E*.They hold out for better deals but I never see any cheaper bills.Who do you think will get the mets channel first?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

This one is all OLN. They are extorting systems across the country. E* is just one of them.

JL


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

JohnH said:


> The technical problems being referred to here may be a problem with the audio or some other Mpeg anomolies. Comcast Cable here has an audio hiccup tonight and had it last night. DirecTV has no problem.


Actually the game was not available on Time Warner Cable in this area on Monday either. Not sure if it was a black out issue or not.


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## Tom in TX (Jan 22, 2004)

ehren said:


> What an absolutely brilliant blackout...er game. Uh, vice versa


Luckily, I was there! 
I saw the OLN cameras around the arena. 
Go Stars!
Tom in TX


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

ehren said:


> It would be nice to hear a statement from Dish? 2 days in a row now and NOTHING!


Its comcrap thats the problem..If they dropped OLN they would lose all the regional comcrap sports channels they carry


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

*Cable/DBS Battle Surfacing Over DISH/OLN?*

Is it a misunderstanding or a new battle shaping up between cable and satellite TV companies?

Reportedly, Comcast-controlled OLN didn't show this week's scheduled NHL games between the Pittsburgh Penguins and Buffalo Sabers and the Dallas Stars and Phoenix Coyotes to EchoStar/DISH Network customers. Instead, viewers got an alternative stream of programming.

OLN is available in DISH's America's Top 180 and America's Everything packages. And word is that OLN wants its programming be repackaged for customers.

In a statement, EchoStar said, "We are disappointed that Comcast, the largest cable TV company in the nation, has failed to fulfill its contractual obligations with DISH Network. We hope we can resolve this issue, but we will not allow our customers to be bullied."

Because of the late nature of the developing story, OLN officials couldn't be reached for comment.​Source: http://www.skyreport.com/viewskyreport.cfm?ReleaseID=1765#Story3


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks Juan for pointing this out. Others were skeptical but you were right about a problem between E* and Comcast on this.

Beyond that I can't say much. I would guess that the two sides are talking but often we geta lot of public saber rattling while these talks go on. I just hope that it is resolved soon.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Put up your dukes Charlie boy.


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

James Long said:


> This one is all OLN. They are extorting systems across the country. E* is just one of them.
> 
> JL


OLN and Comcast should really have something better than hockey to use as a bargaining chip. I'm a huge and loyal hockey fan, but it escapes me why Comcast would pay so much money and then cut off a sizeable chunck of audience from seeing it. It would be different if there deal was like NBC's deal ... $0 money up-front.

Advertisers that bought into OLN's NHL broadcasts should be livid. The NHL should be livid. The NHLPA should be livid -- after all, they are partners with league ownership and desperately need to make sure that their product is being marketed to the largest audience possible.

None of this makes any sense for OLN and Comcast. I still ask the same question ... "Who's running that company -- former FEMA director Mike "Brownie" Brown???"


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

No, Comcast isn't stupid. No, the advertisers shouldn't be livid yet.

Comcast is playing hardball. IF it succeeds, it'll force Dish to move OLN from AT180 (with x subs) to AT120 (with x + y subs), resulting in a sizable gain of (y * sub fee) in cash from Dish plus y extra potential viewers to sell to the advertisers.

Dish's protests to the contrary, I suspect OLN's contract with Dish spells out a general type of programming that it promises to deliver -- the type that was available in the alternate feed that Dish got. If OLN suddenly has something more desirable to show, it can negotiate a new contract.

I fault the NHL for allowing this to happen. At some point, it could have made sure that all games would be shown to all then-current OLN subs, but I guess the NHL either wanted the cash or went along with the notion that this was the best way to grow its audience.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

The NHL was reeling and pretty much took anything they could get after ESPN dumped them.

It may take a few weeks but one of them will blink soon.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

So, my two choices are:

1 - Keep AT180 for a few days to see if this is resolved.

2 - Lose AT180 and go back to AT120, with the risk that if Comcast blinks, I'll have to add AT180 back... :nono2:

(option 3, go to another provider, isn't on the table for me)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

For a few days ... I'd keep it. (Save the downgrade fee.)

JL


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Based on how nasty I can get, there won't be a downgrade fee over this fiasco


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

carload said:


> I fault the NHL for allowing this to happen. At some point, it could have made sure that all games would be shown to all then-current OLN subs, but I guess the NHL either wanted the cash or went along with the notion that this was the best way to grow its audience.


You make some good points, but the fact that cannot be overlooked is that using hockey to play hardball (some analogy, eh?) is like begging. Unfortunately, us hockey fans make up a very small base of eyeballs. It's not like OLN was available at a lower tier, then got moved to AT180 when the NHL deal was announced.

Adelphia subscribers in my area have the same problem because OLN is placed on their Digital Plus tier.

I still don't see how OLN thinks they can bully E* -- or any other provider for that matter -- with hockey. Their bargaining power is severely diluted because of the Center Ice package.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

I'd gladly put up with missing an occasional game rather than see E* bow down to Comcast.

There's always NHL center Ice to see everything else. Personally I think this will drive me to get Center Ice!


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

I think with Charlie's track record we all know who will have to "blink" first! My guess you will see hockey on 180 soon enough which is where it should be.


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

JohnH said:


> For those who may doubt, the NHL game was on OLN last night and is on OLN tonight as advertised. The games are not on the version of OLN being provided to DiSH Network because of a carriage dispute in which OLN is apparently wanting OLN in a package which has at least 40% of the DiSH Network subscribers
> 
> I would not expect Charlie to say, Hey that's cool. Here is a few million dollars. Let the good times roll. More Bull Riding for everyone.
> 
> At end of 1, it is Phoenix 0, Dallas 1.


Thanks for explaining it John, at least now I know what is going on.


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## Penguins (Oct 11, 2005)

I was so ticked off for not getting to see the Penguins/Sabres game on OLN monday I sent Dish a letter via their "contact us" link. I posted their response below. I sure hope they resolve this issue soon. :nono2:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email. OLN, which is owned by the cable company Comcast, failed to deliver to EchoStar's DISH Network customers the scheduled NHL game between the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Buffalo Sabers on Monday night and the Dallas Stars and Phoenix Coyotes without any advance notice whatsoever to our subscribers. We are disappointed that Comcast, the largest cable TV company in the nation, has opted to bully DISH Network customers rather than fulfill its obligations under a binding agreement with EchoStar. We will continue to pursue all remedies and hope to resolve this quickly.

Comcast is demanding DISH Network repackage OLN to deliver OLN to additional subscribers who are not interested in paying for OLN or NHL games. We will not allow Comcast to bully DISH Network subscribers in this way.

DISH Network does offer our NHL Center Ice Package, which provides the most NHL coverage possible, with over 1,100 games from around the league, including the first two rounds of the Stanley Cup playoffs and select games broadcast in high-definition. Games offered on OLN, however, Will Not be available on the NHL Center Ice Package. These games are exclusive to OLN. We've reduced the price of this package $30.00, offering it for $129.00 or three payments of $43.00 if you order by October 31. You may also be able to see local hockey games if you qualify for a Regional Sports Network (RSN).

As a current customer, you may always use our website to view your current or previous billing statements, add services, or make payments to your account. Please use the link _________ to visit our Online Customer Support Center.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to __________or reply to this email.

Sincerely,

Stephanie K. 
DISH Network eCare


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

Drop the channel and add YES in its place...lol


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## parttimedevotion (Sep 1, 2005)

all of you are forgetting one thing, Hockey SUCKS!


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## parttimedevotion (Sep 1, 2005)

Now Curling thats a real Ice sport


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

Let's just hope they get this settled before the play-offs since several games and the first two games of the finals are OLN exclusives.How do you get that charlie won't blink? When has anything he held out on ended up any different then the what the programmers wanted.Except maybe NTOONS being in180 instead of 120.Does anyone know if 40% of D* customers have sports pack?


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

johnbelt28 said:


> Let's just hope they get this settled before the play-offs since several games and the first two games of the finals are OLN exclusives.How do you get that charlie won't blink? When has anything he held out on ended up any different then the what the programmers wanted.Except maybe NTOONS being in180 instead of 120.Does anyone know if 40% of D* customers have sports pack?


OLN is in TC on Directv.


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

Curtis0620 said:


> OLN is in TC on Directv.


I've got TC and sports pack i assumed it was in sports pack.OLN is on basic cable here on Charter.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I support Dish on this dispute. There are antitrust problems with Comcast. It is a vertically
integrated company, as a cable television distributor and the owner and producer of sports
programs.

In New Jersey, I live in the Philadelphia DMA. There are about 6700 cable subscribers in my town. Our cable provider is Patmedia (the rest of Patmedia's New Jersey subscribers are in
the New York DMA). We are the only cable system in New Jersey within the Philadelphia DMA that does not have Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia. Patmedia tells me that they do not provide Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia, because Comcast insists that it must be provided to 90 percent of Patmedia's subscribers in my town. Plus there is a charge
of over $2.00 per subscriber which would have to be added to the expanded basic cable
charge. Patmedia tells me that there is not enough interest to add Comcast Sportsnet 
Philadelphia and increase every subscribers monthly bill. I would suspect that less than
1/2 of subscribers are sports nuts like myself and the majority of subscribers would not want to pay more. However, Comcast should still be reguired to provide non-Comcast cable subscribers in the Philadelphia DMA Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia as some sort of premium option, whether it be stand alone or part of the Sports Tier Package. This is a basic
accessibility issue. Where I live my zip code is within the Philadelphia Phillies claimed area.
Therefore, we are blacked out from Phillies games broadcast on MLB EI or on any other
station such as TBS against the Braves or WGN against the Cubs. But Comcast's policy
prevents us from watching the games on Comcast Sportsnet. If you subscribe to Dish
in my town, the RSN is MSG and Fox SportsNY. But the Mets games on these two
channels are blacked out because we reside in the Phillies territory. 

So I have filed an accessibility complaint against Comcast with the FCC. This is not a
complaint regarding the terrestrial exception. So don't expect to see Comcast Sportsnet
Philadelphia on satellite. Comcast is the cable provider to every other New Jersey
town in the Philadelphia DMA. An adjoining town to mine in the Philadelphia DMA has Comcast as the provider. Comcast gives subscribers in that town three RSN's, Comcast
Sportsnet Philadelphia, YES and MSG/FoxSportsNY. Patmedia gives my town YES and
MSG/SportsNY. Comcast also charges about $2.50 more per subscriber in the adjoining town
(the cost of Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia). The only reason that the adjoining town
has three RSN's and we have two is because Comcast is vertically integrated. So I expect
the FCC will rule favorably on my complaint and stop Comcast from withholding sports
programming by requiring that it be provided to many subscribers rather than the people
who really want it.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

parttimedevotion said:


> all of you are forgetting one thing, Hockey SUCKS!


 you know something... YOU SUCK!!!!

<----Billy Madison


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

parttimedevotion said:


> Now Curling thats a real Ice sport


I'll watch curling but Dish would have to give us CBC or CTV , I wish they would!


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

I wonder when will all this be moot, because bit-torrent like servers will deliver bootlegged sports packages? The music industry did it's self in with crazy priced music and eventually allowed easy legal access to downloaded music after Napster started the MP3 revolution. The rules for sports packages, the crazy definitions of DMA by zip code, and the petty disputes between rival video delivery companies (DISH versus cable companies, or networks like OLN) will likely spawn a napster-like market for people to upload ballgames . Currently the technology is, I guess, poor . However I will assume that as upload bandwidths improve, watching a bootleg ballgame will become a viable alternative. Apple's video Ipod may see a new podcast industry for ballgames, not live but perhaps downloaded in 30 minute segments. You could use the Ipod like a DVR, just avoid watching the game live, wait 30 mintues and then watch it "almost live". Who knows, maybe in a couple of years we can legally subscribe to podcasts of Sabres games or Philly games.


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

Although the Charlie cheerleaders are putting on their war paint, channels like OLN and ESPNU probably should be in the 120 package. There are some people who enjoy a few hockey games and some extra college football teams, but they won't pay the extra to buy the 180 package. I am not much of a hockey fan, but I would watch an occasional game if the channel was available, but I am happy with the 120 package, and I have no plans to upgrade for a few hockey games. 

On the other hand, Comcast abruptly knocked the games off without warning. They should have contacted the providers and gave them a deadline of a couple of weeks to decide. So while the hard asses go to war, some customers get short changed. I wish Comcast and Charlie would both ride off into the sunset and get into another line of work.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Crazy Idea: Wouldn't it be cool if Dish were to keep Center Ice in free preview mode until the OLN thing gets sorted out?


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

As a vertically integrated company, Comcast should not be allowed to use its market power
to squeeze more money from subscribers over access issues. Dropping OLN down to 120 
gives Comcast more revenue and increases the value of advertising time. Requiring 90 percent of subscribers to have Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is more profitable than having it as a premium channel. The largest pay television provider in the United States cannot withhold access to programming from satelllite subscribers and subscribers of other cable companies for predatory reasons.

There is very little interest in delayed broadcasts of sports programs. It is similar to 
yesterday's news. Radio, satellite radio and play by play descriptions on the Internet fill
this void.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

I can watch most the semifinals and finals on CBC!!! If you want to do the same, MOVE TO DETROIT INSTEAD OF LIVING IN HURRICANE HELLHOLES IN THE SOUTHEAST AND THEN WHINING ABOUT NOT HAVING ENOUGH FRESH WATER. Michigan has by far the most water and hockey, yet NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE HERE.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Sounds like a Lake-Effect commercial.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

To paraphrase Yogi Berra, if nobody wants to live there, you can't stop 'em.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

my state while at the same time trying to steal our water. You want our water? MOVE HERE!!! We have all the water in the world and NEVER have widespread flooding. You people in the South want to steal our water and make us pay for your disasters. What a shock, our state is bankrupt.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

jeffwtux said:


> my state while at the same time trying to steal our water. You want our water? MOVE HERE!!! We have all the water in the world and NEVER have widespread flooding. You people in the South want to steal our water and make us pay for your disasters. What a shock, our state is bankrupt.


I went to Michigan once, spent a week there one day and have never gone back. Michigan is like food poisoning, once is more than enough!  :hurah: :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I lived there for 15 years ... now I live 10 miles south of Michigan. All areas have their special challenges.

JL


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

Slamminc11 said:


> ...spent a week there one day...


Wow, it must be horrible if it distorts time such that an entire week fits into a single day!


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

BoisePaul said:


> Wow, it must be horrible if it distorts time such that an entire week fits into a single day!


  :lol: :lol: :grin:


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Getting back to the subject at hand...

Monday and Tuesday's games on OLN are currently listed in the E* guide.

Tonight's game is at 4pm PDT. Let's see what happens. If I don't get either game, I'm inclined to downgrade back to AT120 and let them fight it out.

Considering the ratings of the opening week game on OLN were around 350,000, Comcast is not bargaining from an area of strength in this situation.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Ronmort said:


> Although the Charlie cheerleaders are putting on their war paint, channels like OLN and ESPNU probably should be in the 120 package. There are some people who enjoy a few hockey games and some extra college football teams, but they won't pay the extra to buy the 180 package. I am not much of a hockey fan, but I would watch an occasional game if the channel was available, but I am happy with the 120 package, and I have no plans to upgrade for a few hockey games.
> 
> On the other hand, Comcast abruptly knocked the games off without warning. They should have contacted the providers and gave them a deadline of a couple of weeks to decide. So while the hard asses go to war, some customers get short changed. I wish Comcast and Charlie would both ride off into the sunset and get into another line of work.


espn u is only in the sports pack on d* so why the E* bash???


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

...the EPG now says "OLN Programming"...


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Replay time says "OLN Programming", also.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Enough is enough. I downgraded back to AT120. The customer service rep tried to charge me the $5 downgrade fee, but it didn't take me long to get that waived - I was sweet as sugar :flaiming


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

I know tonights game which is suppsoed to be shown on OLN is also being shown in Canada on TSN (Canada's ESPN). I was just on MSN with a friend of mine who lives in the great white north and he mentioned to me that it was the usual TSN braodcast, so those who earlier in the thread mentioned that TSN is picking up the OLN feed is mistaken, as it appears TSN is providing its own feed for the game.

Additionally, I was told that the OLN recieved in Canada is also showing alternative programming, as none of the NHL games have been recieved on OLN in Canada...

Hopefully, Dish and Comcast can figure something out sooner than later. Of course, I personally wouldn't mind seeing more RSNs added such as CSN Philly, however for once I too am with Dish, as this is Comcast just being a pain in the ass...


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Also, couldn't the NHL come in and put a stop to this situation. One would think they don't want this happening. I too agree that perhaps the TSN feed should be shown for the time being if OLN refuses to provide Dish Network with a feed of the game...


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

alebowgm said:


> Also, couldn't the NHL come in and put a stop to this situation. One would think they don't want this happening. I too agree that perhaps the TSN feed should be shown for the time being if OLN refuses to provide Dish Network with a feed of the game...


It would seem that the NHL should be very concerned about this situation. Hockey is on life support and the NHL should be of the mindset that OLN's policies are preventing too many fans from seeing their local teams in action. The NHL and the Players Association are the ones that are going to lose out in the end. They are both partners in the effort to bring more fans to the game, so none of this OLN crap helps their cause.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Can't believe Dish isn't putting a scroller bar during the time of the games telling people why the games are not being shown.


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## alan1299 (Oct 19, 2005)

comcast is trying to force cable and satalite companys to provide oln on thier basic packages and pay higher fees to show hockey games. any cable or satalite company that does not move oln to a basic package will have the games blackout. because comcast is charging more for the broadcast rights and demaning that oln be moved to a lower package cable/satalite companies would lose money. It is comcast fault that you can not see hockey on oln. Hopefully you High Definition and can watch hockey on HDNET, but if the problem is not solved by March many of us will miss the entire playoffs and some of the stanley Cup Finals. Dish Network can only show what comcast delivers to them.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

I guess the Cable comanies still try and get us!

I would like to know who the sponsors are for OLN Hockey. I know it doesn't matter to them but I would like to let them know that I will boycott them for sponsoring OLN's activity.

What kind of lawyer did Dish use that allowed them to sign a contract that allows OLN to do this?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Remember the FSN Ohio Cleveland Indians thingy. Nothing could be done but pay more for the additional games, apparently.


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## nimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

cicijay said:


> I would like to know who the sponsors are for OLN Hockey. I know it doesn't matter to them but I would like to let them know that I will boycott them for sponsoring OLN's activity.


Actually, it should matter big time to the sponsors / advertisers. When OLN sold the sponsorships and advertising spots, they would have had to provide numbers on the amount of potential eyeballs that could watch the games. Well, E*'s AT180 and higher customers must have been included in those numbers, so OLN actually lied to their advertisers and over-inflated their potential audience.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Sponsors? That's easy...

Beer, beer & beer (think Molson Canadian and Labatt's Blue) :goodjob:

I'm going back to sleep now - would someone wake me when this dispute is over?

...Rip Van Skates

P.S. Let's hope this doesn't take 20 years...


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Yet another example how we have zero competition in the programming department. Sure the distributors compete (Dish-DirectTV-Cable) but as long as "we" allow the programmers to dictate "their" terms on us we will forever be held hostage to their whims.

Until we can call up Dish and say "Channel XYZ costs too much and I would like to cancel that 1 channel" we will forever be stuck with "forced" packages.

If I was a Dish 60 subscriber and I wanted "just" that one hockey network why can't I "just" pay for that one channel instead of having to take two additional packages?

Sure that one channel may cost me $5 or even $10 per month but so what.... it costs me $20 a month just to get the two extra packages needed so I can get the "one" channel I want.

Comcast wants to force this "nitch" channel into the basic package so that everyone, hockey fan and non-hockey fan alike, will have to pay for it. This is wrong wrong wrong and as much as I want to watch hockey I hope Dish stands up to them and tells them to take a flying leap.

If comcast wants extra $$$ then let Dish offer the one channel ala-cart and I'll pay the fair market value. If comcast chrages too much for the channel then people will not buy it - seems that this is the way most businesses work. You set a price point that the public will accept and sell your product.

The programmers do not want to compete like other businesses. They do not want you to have choice. They like the current system. They like being able to dictact prices without recourse. Choice is bad for them so you have no choice.

As long as we have enough people who are addicted to "channel count" instead of "channel quality" we're always going to lose as post after post comes from people who worry that if the system is ever changed and they have to pay for those 500 channels (instead of having everyone subsidize channels by being forced to take packages and channels they do not want just to obtain the 1-2 channels they do want) then we have lost.

If this was any other industry then the government would have already stepped in and "forced" the programmers to break up the forced packaging of channels and to make sure the programmers link what they charge with the true cost of providing these channels - just like other companies have to do when they have no competition.

Until I can select 1 "sci-fi" channel from a group of 2-3 "like" channels then there is no true competition. Most channels cater to a different type of programming with veyr little overlap.

Now if the programmers were really trying to be fair (and they are not!) they would "theme" the packages. Most people would understand this and IMHO would prefer it to be this way.

1. Sports Package
2. Education Package
3. Movie Package
4. Classic TV Package
5. Music Package

and so on.

Each package does not have to cost the same as music does not cost as much as sports (for example) and this would allow us "some" choice yet still keep the better package pricing but you know why this will not work unless the government forces this?

Because the programmers want you to take "all" their channels and they offer channels across several types of programming so a "sports" package might include programming from multiple programmers.

-JB


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

> Each package does not have to cost the same as music does not cost as much as sports (for example) and this would allow us "some" choice yet still keep the better package pricing but you know why this will not work unless the government forces this?


Nothing works like injecting the government into a "free-market". That is called regulation.

Funny thing about packaging. People can yell and scream at the program providers about negotiating for placement into packages (in this case, OLN and Comcast), yet I don't understand why that ire cannot be directed towards the distributor (in this case, Dish Network). The distributor created the packages when they first started in business (in Dish Network's case, the original AT40 and AT100 packs). The distributor also forces packages upon the public. Subscribers aren't allowed to negotiate with the distributor to include channels in custom packages only because the distributor is trying to maximize their own profit. There are always two sides to the argument.

The distributor definitely shares in culpability. Imagine what would have happened if they never offered packages.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Article today over from the NY Times... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/sports/hockey/20tv.html

***********

c/p

Sports Media and Business
Now You Almost See Hockey. Now You Don't.

By RICHARD SANDOMIR
Published: October 20, 2005
If you're a Cablevision or a DISH Network satellite subscriber who looked forward to watching National Hockey League games on OLN, you've fallen victim to an anti-fan policy that boggles the mind.

The games you've expected to see since last Monday have been replaced by other programs on OLN - which, until making its deal with the N.H.L., was known largely for carrying the Tour de France - because its parent company, Comcast, wants to boost the number of its own subscribers.

It is a fine aspiration for OLN, which is in about 65 million cable homes, to want to broaden its availability, especially since it reaches 25 million fewer TV homes than ESPN and ESPN2, the league's former cable networks.

But do you deprive Cablevision and DISH viewers of what they were expecting so you can pursue the goal of rapidly increasing the number of subscribers?

What do you tell viewers who have heard about OLN's Monday and Tuesday night games and believed the promise in the network's advertising slogan, "We Believe in Hockey"?

If you're Comcast, you tell them that you have to earn back your investment, which includes $65 million for this season's TV rights, and that you're fighting other rival potentates like Cablevision and DISH to make OLN available to as many subscribers as possible.

"We had five weeks to get hockey on the air," said Jeff Shell, the president of Comcast Programming. "We moved mountains to deliver hockey to the fans."

The good will that Comcast built by stepping forward in August when ESPN declined to renew its N.H.L. deal is eroding with its demand that Cablevision and DISH rapidly accelerate their distribution of OLN - or their subscribers will be punished by getting a hockey-free version of the network.

Cablevision has the highest hurdle to meet Comcast's demand that it make OLN available to 40 percent of its nearly 3 million subscribers before hockey games will be shown on OLN on that system. Right now, only 22,000 get OLN as part of a 10-channel $4.95 digital sports package.

Comcast insists that it is fighting to make OLN available to those 3 million homes at a lower price than the 22,000 subscribers pay.

OLN is available to about 3 million of DISH's 11.4 million subscribers, but Comcast is pressing hard to have the channel moved to a less expensive tier that would greatly expand its availability.

Both Cablevision and DISH seem prepared to live with Comcast's cherry-picking of OLN hockey. "We'd like to work with them, but we won't let our customers be bullied," said Marc Lumpkin, a DISH spokesman. "We're disappointed that Comcast is not fulfilling its contractual obligations."

Charles Schueler, a spokesman for Cablevision - which has engaged in nasty disputes like refusing to carry the YES Network in 2002 - said the zapping of OLN hockey was "in violation of our contract."

"We call upon Comcast to return OLN hockey to New York fans immediately," he said.

In Cablevision's service areas in the metropolitan area, one Rangers game on OLN has already been blacked out, and six more may be denied to viewers; four Islanders games are scheduled, as are two Devils games.

Shell insisted that Comcast was correct in making its demands. About Cablevision, he said: "We've given them exactly what's in the contract. It never contemplated hockey." He added, "We don't have an obligation to add hockey unless they agree to our terms."

Even so, who thought OLN would branch into hockey, any more than HBO contracts with cable operators could contemplate a blockbuster series about a psychologically conflicted Mafia boss from New Jersey? How do you write such speculation into a contract - and how do you enforce it?

Shell was incensed that Cablevision ran newspaper advertisements last week trumpeting its digital sports offerings - called the iO Sports Pak - including "N.H.L. action all season long on OLN."

"They advertised that you should buy the sports tier when, at the very least, they knew there was a dispute," Shell said. "That's infuriating."

Schueler said the ad ran on Oct. 10, before any games were blacked out. The first OLN blackout occurred that night, and the first one involving the Rangers came in their game on Monday against Florida.

"We never imagined that Comcast would take the unprecedented step of electronically blocking hockey games and delivering a different version of OLN to New York than appears nationally," Schueler said.

This is a poor way to start the post-lockout relationship between OLN and even a relatively small sliver of fans, who need not care about Comcast's investment in production and marketing. They just see that in a short time, OLN came to hockey's rescue, and is now playing hardpuck.

The N.H.L. has not whistled this power play down, suggesting it lacks the power to do so. Bill Daly, the league's deputy commissioner, said, "We're monitoring what's going on, and we share the goal of everyone to maximize the coverage of OLN games in as many households as possible."

E-mail: [email protected]


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

And the Boston Globe had one, that basically says what we are saying...

**************8

c/p

Bruins fans got signals crossed
By Bill Griffith, Globe Staff | October 20, 2005

There was plenty of confusion Tuesday night as Bruins fans had trouble finding OLN or found it wasn't available on their cable or satellite system.
Enough viewers did find OLN to give the Bruins-Canadiens game a 1.8 rating, a drop of roughly a point from the encouraging ratings the team has earned this year on NESN, but also a sign that many viewers were able to find the telecast, which was exclusive to OLN, even though it wasn't in HD and the less-than-sharp picture brought back memories of decades-old Bruins telecasts on Channel 38.

Those who had trouble finding the game called their cable systems, as well as the Globe, WEEI, NESN, and OLN. Their complaints are being heard because OLN will have exclusive (no NESN) coverage of seven more Bruins games this season, the next Nov. 8 at Philadelphia.

Comcast, which owns OLN, didn't report any problems, nor did Cox, with systems in Rhode Island and Connecticut.

However, Bruins fans found themselves shut out completely on Dish Network, the result of a national dispute between the company and OLN that is keeping the system's subscribers from seeing OLN's hockey telecasts.

Even though OLN is on Dish's 180 tier, the network is withholding NHL games to the system. OLN is negotiating to get a spot on Dish's less-expensive 120 tier. OLN spokeswomen Amy Phillips said, ''Traditionally the NHL, like all major professional sports, has been broadly distributed on a basic tier. We believe that hockey fans deserve the right to watch the hockey the way they watch all other major professional sports, and we are actively working with Dish to do that."

Adelphia subscribers found plenty of confusion due to OLN's placement on different tiers. In New Hampshire and Rhode Island, the channel is found on the digital basic tier. In Maine, it's split, on analog in half the state, on digital elsewhere.

In Massachusetts, however, OLN was only available to Adelphia's digital-plus customers.

''The bottom line is that if you get OLN, you should get the hockey," said David Daniels, director of product marketing for Adelphia's Northeast Region.

''We got calls Tuesday from all over. There was no rhyme or reason to it. The people at our call centers found that, in many cases, people were looking for the game on NESN and didn't know where to find OLN."

However, other callers, including a sports bar on the South Shore, said they only got a message saying, ''If you want this program, call OLN at . . ."

RCN spokeswoman Brooke Tyson reported no complaints; however, WEEI personnel said they couldn't find the game at the radio station, and director of operations and programming Jason Wolfe said the station is served by RCN.

Like the new rules on the ice, it seems the new distribution rules off it will require some adjustments.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/articles/2005/10/20/bruins_fans_got_signals_crossed/


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Lastly, Mercyry News out in San Jose is also on our side...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/hockey/nhl/san_jose_sharks/12910580.htm

***********

c/p

`Be nice, or no NHL.' `Oooh.'

By John Ryan

Mercury News

This can't be what the NHL had in mind when it found a loving TV home: getting caught in the middle of a spat between the Outdoor Life Network and two competitors.

OLN is owned by Comcast, which is using the NHL's national TV contract as leverage to move up the priority list on the Dish Network and, in the New York area, Cablevision. OLN showed the season-opening package last week, but Dish and Cablevision customers who tuned in Monday got a fishing show instead, and they're going to continue to get the switcheroo.

Even if it's ice fishing, that isn't going to help NHL ratings, which were off to a slow start anyway.

Dish subscribers receive OLN if they buy the ``top 180 channels'' package, but OLN wants to move into the top 120 or even the top 60. It's similar to the 2004 dispute that briefly left all of Viacom's channels -- most prominently CBS -- off EchoStar's lineup.

But there's a big difference: the NHL isn't exactly the negotiating hammer for OLN that ``CSI'' and the NCAA tournament were for CBS. And there's a bigger difference: Viacom's contract had ended; Comcast's has not.

``They did this without giving any advance notice whatsoever to our customers,'' said Marc Lumpkin, spokesman for EchoStar, which owns Dish Network. ``. . . We're disappointed that they failed to adhere to this contract. We hope to resolve this issue, but we refuse to let our customers be bullied.''

DirecTV viewers had trouble with the Buffalo-Pittsburgh game Monday night, but OLN said that was a technical problem that has been fixed. Optimism shouldn't run quite as high for Dish subscribers.

``In the last year, we've added a lot of content to OLN,'' said Amy Phillips, director of public relations for OLN. ``We've changed the value proposition of the network. We've added the NHL, the America's Cup, `Survivor.' It's a better value.''

Both sides say they are looking forward to a resolution. When might it come about? Put it this way: a reader poll on OLNTV.com asks which game might be the season's most exciting. Of the four choices, the latest is Dec. 5.

It'd be a surprise if the entire nation has access to any of those games.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Comcast Subsidiary Refuses to Provide OLN Programming to EchoStar's DISH Network; 'Strong-arm Tactics by Comcast Punish EchoStar Customers' 

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 20, 2005--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) confirmed today that it is no longer carrying Outdoor Life Network. The Comcast-owned programmer recently demanded that EchoStar force millions of additional DISH Network customers to pay for its outdoor programming as a condition to continued availability. EchoStar was unwilling to impose those additional costs on consumers.

"We work hard to provide choice for our customers and to keep prices low," said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for EchoStar. "Most of our customers have made the decision they do not want to pay the additional cost of watching that channel."

For customers impacted by the loss of OLN, DISH Network recently added College Sports TV (CSTV), NFL Network and ESPNU at no additional cost. DISH Network offers other channels that provide similar programming to OLN, such as The Outdoor Channel and the Men's Channel. For hockey fans, hundreds of hockey games are available through regional sports networks offered by DISH Network, or customers can subscribe to the NHL Center Ice Package, which offers a variety of hockey games much broader than those offered on OLN.

About EchoStar

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) serves more than 11.4 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest-growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service. Visit EchoStar's DISH Network at www.dishnetwork.com.

CONTACT:
EchoStar Communications Corporation
Marc Lumpkin, 720-514-5351
[email protected]
SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

News Releases

EchoStar Communications Corp. (ticker: DISH, exchange: NASDAQ Stock Exchange (.O)) News Release - 10/20/2005
Comcast Subsidiary Refuses to Provide OLN Programming to EchoStar's DISH Network; 'Strong-arm Tactics by Comcast Punish EchoStar Customers'

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 20, 2005--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) confirmed today that it is no longer carrying Outdoor Life Network. The Comcast-owned programmer recently demanded that EchoStar force millions of additional DISH Network customers to pay for its outdoor programming as a condition to continued availability. EchoStar was unwilling to impose those additional costs on consumers.

"We work hard to provide choice for our customers and to keep prices low," said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for EchoStar. "Most of our customers have made the decision they do not want to pay the additional cost of watching that channel."

For customers impacted by the loss of OLN, DISH Network recently added College Sports TV (CSTV), NFL Network and ESPNU at no additional cost. DISH Network offers other channels that provide similar programming to OLN, such as The Outdoor Channel and the Men's Channel. For hockey fans, hundreds of hockey games are available through regional sports networks offered by DISH Network, or customers can subscribe to the NHL Center Ice Package, which offers a variety of hockey games much broader than those offered on OLN.

About EchoStar

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) serves more than 11.4 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest-growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service. Visit EchoStar's DISH Network at www.dishnetwork.com.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Looks like OLN Programming is still there on channel 151.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

must be a threat from dish 

Don't wanna provide the NHL to us? fine then we'll remove your network and remove all of the sub numbers you were using from us anyways...


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Are they deep sixing the whole channel? I'm not a big hockey guy, so it doesn't bother me, but it looks like Charlie is continuing his "no ultimatums" negotiating style. Let the suing commence!


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

I was mad at Dish in the beginning but I hope this standoff provides INHD and Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia to rise from the grave onto DBS. Comcast can eat my ass, they ***** about NFL Sunday Ticket being exclusive to DBS, but it's not on Dishnetwork now is it!!!


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

Good for Dishnetwork!! Don't back down from this.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

Hocky? Whats that?


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

ehren said:


> I was mad at Dish in the beginning but I hope this standoff provides INHD and Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia to rise from the grave onto DBS. Comcast can eat my ass, they ***** about NFL Sunday Ticket being exclusive to DBS, but it's not on Dishnetwork now is it!!!


Mad at Dish, why. Would you like to held over a barrel like Dish is in this fight.

If you have a SIGNED contract, and the other party all of a sudden refused to deliver on this agreement what would you do, roll over and take it, of course not.

Dish has my complete support on this issue, Comcast can suck eggs. I have Center Ice so I don't mind losing a couple of games per week, but as a Hockey Fan I feel badly for the other Hockey fans that subscribe to OLN and get blacked out, as well as the NHL in general.

I as well as many other fans ponyed up the extra bucks to get the OLN, and how does OLN thank us, by withholding content from us, NOW THATS COMCASTIC.

John


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

I say put the channel in 120.It doesn't matter our bills will go up at the beginning of the year like it always does..I've had dish 7 years this is something I'm used to it Charlie plays hardball to keep the prices down but E* isn't no cheaper than D*.If i paid $129 for NHL Center Ice and couldn't watch no play-off games except for the ones on NBC I'd be pissed.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

NHL CENTER ICE let’s you experience this season with the most coverage possible with over 1,100 games* from around the League, including the first two rounds of the Stanley Cup playoffs and select games broadcast in high-definition.


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## nfluggs (Oct 14, 2005)

Dish should just add CBC because they broadcast NHL games several times during the week.


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## johnbelt28 (Nov 6, 2004)

ok well you get some play-offs but there is more than two rounds.You can't just add a feed of CBC or TSN and show a game that OLN has exclusive rights to.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

The channel has been dropped by e* as of 10/19/2005 10pm


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

Why does these problems with sports programming never seem to involve Directv? While a few Dish customers continually promote this anti-sports crap, maybe they should take into account all the extra money the satellite and cable companies make from offering sports subscription packages like the NHL CI, MLB EI, and NBA LP? If each of those packages attract 50,000-100,000 customers for DTV and Dish, the share for the providers would be millions. Much of that money may be used to provide a lot of other programming for customers, both sports and and non-sports. This is why we can never find out what the number of subscribers are or the share for the providers is each year. I don't care if I ever see another hockey game, but many CI subs will be shortchanged this year with this dispute because they will miss many of the playoff games at the end of the year. They have paid a lot of extra to watch the NHL, just like I do to watch MLB and NBA packages. These fans should expect some reasonable negotiations between these two groups of hardheaded company execs. there is certainly enough money to get YES, MASN, OLN, etc. I'm sure we won't get them, but Ergen will be up another rung on the Forbes ladder next year.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

DirecTV has had two profitable quarters in its existance. Dish Netork has be profitable for 2.5 years with a couple of other profitable quarters.

DirecTV rolls over and pays whatever is asked of them and then rapes the parent company for the cash to make up the difference. Dish doesn't have any deep pockets to go to so must be profitable or fold.

That's why.

See ya
Tony


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Is it possible, that now that Dish no longer carries OLN they can as a result now air the games OLN was carrying from a Canadian or other secondary (arena?) feed?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

No. OLN still has an exclusive (as in to exclude all others) for their games.

See ya
Tony


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> DirecTV has had two profitable quarters in its existance. Dish Netork has be profitable for 2.5 years with a couple of other profitable quarters.
> 
> DirecTV rolls over and pays whatever is asked of them and then rapes the parent company for the cash to make up the difference. Dish doesn't have any deep pockets to go to so must be profitable or fold.
> 
> ...


So every cable and satellite company that offfers sports programming loses money except of course Dish. My main point was the sports packages make money, and that could provide the customers with the sports channels they are asking for. Who's raping whom? By the way, when did the cost of OLN come into the picture? I thought it was a whole other issue. I also was never aware of the almost destitute situation of Dish Network. Provide a couple of sports channels and poor old Ergen ends up in the poor house. Please spare me the sob story. I like Dish Network for a lot of reasons, and I am generally satisfied, but I am one who pays a lot of money for sports packages, and I would like to see a full sports menu on Dish.


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

Ronmort said:


> So every cable and satellite company that offfers sports programming loses money except of course Dish. My main point was the sports packages make money, and that could provide the customers with the sports channels they are asking for. Who's raping whom? By the way, when did the cost of OLN come into the picture? I thought it was a whole other issue. I also was never aware of the almost destitute situation of Dish Network. Provide a couple of sports channels and poor old Ergen ends up in the poor house. Please spare me the sob story. I like Dish Network for a lot of reasons, and I am generally satisfied, but I am one who pays a lot of money for sports packages, and I would like to see a full sports menu on Dish.


I agree with you. That is the entire reason why I don't have Dish network. Back 2 years ago, they didn't have what I wanted. Directv did and I have had them since. That is the wonder of having competition and choices.

That said, I really do think this is a money issue. Did OLN want more money? If they did, did Dish find it unreasonable? Seems that there is a lot of speculation out there. Newspapers are all reporting this differently. Some say it was the NHL ratings that cause Dish to drop OLN. Others say it was due to the fact that OLN was DEMANDING that all providers put OLN on a digital or more costly tier. Well, Directv hasn't changed OLN to a higher tier of programming. You get that if you are on the basic package. I don't know if I believe that story.

So what is the real story?

I am a hockey fan above all else and want to see the NHL succeed. This isn't good for hockey fans and I hope that an agreement can be reached soon. Even though I can get all the games on directv, seeing as many other people have access to the game makes me happier.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

The real story:

Dish has a contract with OLN that spells out, probably in general terms, the type of outdoorsy entertainment OLN will supply in exchange for the rate Dish will pay. It probably also includes language that shows that both sides are OK with Dish offering it as part of AT180. This is to protect Dish in case the network decides to become a shopping channel or something. (Remember the New York cable company that got its AMC contract invalidated in court because AMC no longer shows "classic" movies.)

When OLN added something good that wasn't in the contract, it could do nothing (I'm sure Dish was happy to show Tour de France coverage), OR it could withhold the extra goodies in lieu of a new contract. Dish's protests to the contrary, OLN gave Dish the 24-hour outdoorsy stuff that was required by the original contract.

What does OLN want in the new contract? At a minimum, it wants OLN moved to AT120, which would provide a lot of extra money from new subscribers and more eyeballs to sell to advertisers. (And to use as a selling point when negotiating for more sports rights, but I digress.) AFAIK, that's the only "extra money" they want for now.

At any rate, I would have preferred that OLN put together a blockbuster lineup, then wait for subscribers to demand it in lower tiers. Using the NHL to strong-arm Dish seems kinda dumb, considering that fanatic NHL fans can get Center Ice and patient NHL fans can record the next-day replays on the Sports Pack.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

nfluggs said:


> Dish should just add CBC because they broadcast NHL games several times during the week.


The CBC probably does not own the right to sell the games in the US.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Also, diehard NHL fans and people who want to see the games, if they do not get it at home, will just go out to a bar and watch the game their. So as long as the bars come up with an alternative, the impact really isn't as severe, especially since the most a team will have its game shown on OLN is 5 times this season, of the 82 game schedule...


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Ronmort said:


> So every cable and satellite company that offfers sports programming loses money except of course Dish. My main point was the sports packages make money, and that could provide the customers with the sports channels they are asking for. Who's raping whom? By the way, when did the cost of OLN come into the picture? I thought it was a whole other issue. I also was never aware of the almost destitute situation of Dish Network. Provide a couple of sports channels and poor old Ergen ends up in the poor house. Please spare me the sob story. I like Dish Network for a lot of reasons, and I am generally satisfied, but I am one who pays a lot of money for sports packages, and I would like to see a full sports menu on Dish.


So the solution is easy then. Make a sports package that would allow all who want to pay extra for sports to do so. If it's such a money maker this seems like a no brainer....

wait... it's not Dish that does not allow this. It's the programmers who "require" sports channels to be in basic packages to "force" everyone to pay for sports whether they want them or not.

Seems to me that this is exactly what Dish did. They put this channel in a higher package (180) so that people who do not care about sports would not have to pay for it. It was comcast who decided that they wanted to "force" dish to put it into a basic package so they could charge a larger number of people for the channel.

Every channel wants to be in the basic package. The only real solution is to get rid of the 3 package system and go to a form of themes that you can pick and choose as you see fit. In other words I could take package 1 and 3 and skip 2 instead of the current system in which I have to take 1 and 2 in order to get 3.

We're being raped by the programmers and until we get pissed about it nothing will change. They will continue doing what makes them the most $$$ at our expense.

-JB

P.S. For what it's worth if I had the choice I would subscribe to package 1 and 3 as I watch nothing on tier 2. Can anyone tell me why I have to subscribe to package 2 in order to get 3?


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Nightfall said:


> I agree with you. That is the entire reason why I don't have Dish network. Back 2 years ago, they didn't have what I wanted. Directv did and I have had them since. That is the wonder of having competition and choices.
> 
> That said, I really do think this is a money issue. Did OLN want more money? If they did, did Dish find it unreasonable? Seems that there is a lot of speculation out there. Newspapers are all reporting this differently. Some say it was the NHL ratings that cause Dish to drop OLN. Others say it was due to the fact that OLN was DEMANDING that all providers put OLN on a digital or more costly tier. Well, Directv hasn't changed OLN to a higher tier of programming. You get that if you are on the basic package. I don't know if I believe that story.
> 
> ...


OLN gets a fee for every subscriber. Each higher package has less subscribers so OLN want to "force" Dish to put the channel on the lowest package thus the largest number of subscribers thus more profit.

It matters not to OLN that doing this will mean that a great number of people will be forced to pay for their channel even if they do not watch it.

Dish did the right thing considering the programmers will not allow they to offer themes due to contract issues. They put a "niche" channel on a higher package in order to keep basic pay tv down in price. Those that want "niche" channels should have to pay for them without forcing everyone to pay for them.

Now if only Dish could put ESPN on a higher package.

This is all about $$$ and at least this time I cheer on Dish for doing the right thing. This is nothing but extortion. If you will not pay us (OLN) more $$$ (by placing our channel so that more subscribers have to pay for it) we will withhold the hockey games.

Well screw you OLN!

Direct TV basically said... ok OLN we'll put your channel on the basic package and just raise prices to cover the costs come 2006.

What is so very wrong with people who want a nitch channel paying for it? No one has been able to answer me so far. You want hockey well pay for it. No biggie.

Dish is trying to keep basic pay TV at the lowest possible price but when every channel wants to be in the basic package in order to make more $$$ the only fair solution is to get rid of "tiers" and move to "equal" theme packages in which you can select any or all if you so desire without having to "build" up one package at a time. This way there is no "basic" package and the programmers cannot insist to be placed in what does not exsist.

Simple solution but one the programmers do not want as it means the consumer gets choice and that might mean less $$$ for them.

The distributor (Dish-Direct TV-Cable) cares not what we take as they are charging a distribution fee (like the gas company) so they will always make $$$ - the victims would be the greedy programmers who currently have no competition and their only interest is to force more and more channels onto consumers who may or may not want them.

If their channel is go great then sell us on it's merits instead of trying to get the distributors to force us to pay for it by placing it in the low cost basic package.

-JB


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Ronmort said:


> So every cable and satellite company that offfers sports programming loses money except of course Dish. My main point was the sports packages make money, and that could provide the customers with the sports channels they are asking for. Who's raping whom? By the way, when did the cost of OLN come into the picture? I thought it was a whole other issue. I also was never aware of the almost destitute situation of Dish Network. Provide a couple of sports channels and poor old Ergen ends up in the poor house. Please spare me the sob story. I like Dish Network for a lot of reasons, and I am generally satisfied, but I am one who pays a lot of money for sports packages, and I would like to see a full sports menu on Dish.


This statement shows a complete misunderstanding of the entire situation and my comments.

1) Everyone who offers spoirts packages is going broke?

No. DirecTV has been losing money was all I said and DirecTV has been subsidized by their parent company. Dish IS the parent company so they cannot afford to play by the same rules.

2) Sports packages make money

No kidding? But that is the whole problem! Channels like OLN absolutely refuse to be put in sports packages. They want to be placed in a lowest or second tier basic package.

3) Where did the money issue come in?

Dish and all other multi-channel carriers pay programmers PER SUBSCRIBER. Dropping the channel down to a lower tier with more subscribers who pay less for their programming and at the same time charging the same amount per subscriber costs money! That money has to come from somewhere!

4) Dish is destitute?

No. Dish is profitable because they generally stand up to these bullies and, in general, subscribers still like what they get for their money.

It is amazing to me that so many here think Dish is such a failure yet they control more than 45% of the satellite market even after DirecTV had a 2 year head start. They must be doing something right. Not everyone cares about sports in general. Less people care about hockey.

See ya
Tony


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

No misunderstanding of the comments, Tony...


> 1) Everyone who offers spoirts packages is going broke?
> 
> No. DirecTV has been losing money was all I said and DirecTV has been subsidized by their parent company. Dish IS the parent company so they cannot afford to play by the same rules.


There are a couple of other issues at play. DirecTV has had stellar increases of net new subscriber counts over the past two years. The subscriber acquisition costs have been putting net losses on DirecTV's books. There is also the issue of a $1.5 billion write-down by DirecTV to take over the Spaceway satellites and use them for DirecTV HD service.


> 2) Sports packages make money
> 
> No kidding? But that is the whole problem! Channels like OLN absolutely refuse to be put in sports packages. They want to be placed in a lowest or second tier basic package.


There is no "sports package". There is nothing wrong with OLN asking for carriage consideration (but not price) equal to that of ESPN. OLN is trying to compete by gaining more carriage. Dish Network (and every other multi-channel vendor) is trying to make money. If the two sides can't agree, there is no carriage.


> 3) Where did the money issue come in?
> 
> Dish and all other multi-channel carriers pay programmers PER SUBSCRIBER. Dropping the channel down to a lower tier with more subscribers who pay less for their programming and at the same time charging the same amount per subscriber costs money! That money has to come from somewhere!


This is a bit of an assumption, here. We do not know the details of pricing. I am very certain when DirecTV moved OLN from Sports Pack to Total Choice a few years ago, DirecTV did not agree to the same pricing structure. There is no way a channel that earns 50 cents per subscriber for extra tier programming will receive 50 cents per subscriber when they are moved to the basic tier.


> 4) Dish is destitute?
> 
> No. Dish is profitable because they generally stand up to these bullies and, in general, subscribers still like what they get for their money.


Not quite. The fearless leader is very good in managing his books, not because of standing up to bullies. The only cost differences between DirecTV and Dish Network are in the cost of subscriber acquisition and the cost of their employees, besides DirecTV's cost on Sunday Ticket. One of the big issues that came out of the abandoned Dish Network/DirecTV merger was that Dish Network is actually paying slightly more for programming than DirecTV. And that is only because DirecTV has more subscribers.


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

I don't care about hockey either. All I'm saying is that there are some DN subscribers on here who think sports channels are too costly, but they never look at the other side. There are many people like myself who purchase sports packages (in my case NBA LP and MLB EI) that make DN more able to pay for all kinds of programming. I'm not complaining about that, but I just don't like the idea of making us the scapegoat for the possibility of raising rates. Everytime some sports fan asks for a sports channel, there is a barrage of attackers telling them that non-sports fans don't want to pay to make them happy. I wonder how many of those non-sports fans pay an extra $300 a year like myself in addition to basic packages, locals, HD, movie channels and the like. All I'm saying is that people like myself have a legitimate opinion. I'm sure the money is there to provide what sports and non-sports fans are asking for in new channels. That's my opinion. I pay enough money to Dish to state it. If I was paying for the NHL CI package, and at the end of the season I could not see the playoffs on OLN, I would not be a happy camper.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

All I know is that I didn't watch OLN when Hockey was around before, I didn't watch OLN when hockey took a year off, and I didn't watch OLN when Hockey came back! There is only one hockey team I watch and I get them on Altitude Sports so OLN is one channel I won't miss at all.



Greg Bimson said:


> ...There is nothing wrong with OLN asking for carriage consideration (but not price) equal to that of ESPN. OLN is trying to compete by gaining more carriage...


You're right Greg, there is nothing wrong with asking, but until OLN can prove that they ARE equal to ESPN or FOX NET/SPORTS then I nor anyone else should have to pay the same price as we have to do with ESPN or FOX!

I'm sorry but what pipe is ComCrap smokin' to think that they are going to turn OLN into a sports giant on the back of two hockey games a week?


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

Slamminc11 said:


> I'm sorry but what pipe is ComCrap smokin' to think that they are going to turn OLN into a sports giant on the back of two hockey games a week?


So I take it you don't think OLN is *Comcastic*? :lol:


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Apparently OLN is talking to MLB. Some of the MLB rights contracts end after the 2006 season.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

catnap1972 said:


> So I take it you don't think OLN is *Comcastic*? :lol:


Comcrapstic maybe.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

OLN = YES Network


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## ride525 (Aug 13, 2003)

carload said:


> The real story:
> 
> Dish has a contract with OLN that spells out, probably in general terms, the type of outdoorsy entertainment OLN will supply in exchange for the rate Dish will pay. .


I don't know that this is true.

The person I talked with in Dish Networks's Executive Offices said that Comcast/OLN violated terms of the contract, and that is why Dish stopped carrying OLN.


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## ride525 (Aug 13, 2003)

Anyone have email contacts at NHL, OLN or Comcast?

I'd like to write them also.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

ride525 said:


> The person I talked with in Dish Networks's Executive Offices said that Comcast/OLN violated terms of the contract, and that is why Dish stopped carrying OLN.


IF that were true, Dish wouldn't be just talking about it. They'd have a request for a restraining order filed before the second day of "alternate" OLN programming.

The fact that they haven't turned to the courts strongly suggests that OLN is not technically in violation of its contract with Dish. The existence of the alternate programming feed also strongly suggests that OLN is taking this extra step (as opposed to a blackout screen) to ensure that it complies with its obligations.


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## ride525 (Aug 13, 2003)

There is a banner now on the OLN website stating that "OLN is on DIRECTV", with a link to signing up for DIRECTV.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

For anyone who has C-Band, OLN is available in unencrpyted form over at Galaxy 11 91w. Personally, that doesn't do anything for me, but I just noticed it was available over at Lyngsat...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

alebowgm said:


> For anyone who has C-Band, OLN is available in unencrpyted form over at Galaxy 11 91w. Personally, that doesn't do anything for me, but I just noticed it was available over at Lyngsat...


Curiosity, but is it the RIGHT OLN - the one with the NHL - or is it the 'filler' OLN that Comcast pushed off on E* and Cablevision (among others)? I'm expecting that the unencrypted feed is NHL-less.

If someone wants to spin a C Band dish that way during an NHL game it would be nice to know for sure. 

JL


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> Curiosity, but is it the RIGHT OLN - the one with the NHL - or is it the 'filler' OLN that Comcast pushed off on E* and Cablevision (among others)? I'm expecting that the unencrypted feed is NHL-less.
> 
> If someone wants to spin a C Band dish that way during an NHL game it would be nice to know for sure.
> 
> JL


Regardless of what you see at Lyngsat, OLN only has one feed which is not encrypted. That is OLN HD which currently has a NHL on OLN card.

The 5 Standard Definition channels on the Mux are encrypted and Labelled with vaeious configurations of OLN, OLN Plus and Mpeg or AC3 audio.


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