# "Updates always on horizon"



## Jman32 (Mar 25, 2006)

Question is.............When will they actually fix something for more than 1 day without the problem reoccuring??? I personally like our beloved "Tivo" mascott (r-10rec.) better than this "Specially Challenged" blue-eyed wonder..............................


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## dmichaels1 (Jan 26, 2006)

I never had a Tivo type unit - (Microsoft UTV), but from what I see, they will Never have a stable version before the unit is obsolete. Obviously, the software "group" (if more than 1 or 2 people) don't have the expertise or manpower to fix this software, and probably never will. Don't hold your breath.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Well sorry to break it to you and this is no excuse for the R15 but Tivo has had MANY growing pains also. They had many software releases that made the box better and better each release. It wasn't near as good as it is when it was released.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Here we go again....


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## d0ug (Mar 22, 2006)

dmichaels1 said:


> I never had a Tivo type unit - (Microsoft UTV), but from what I see, they will Never have a stable version before the unit is obsolete. Obviously, the software "group" (if more than 1 or 2 people) don't have the expertise or manpower to fix this software, and probably never will. Don't hold your breath.


So true about the unit becoming obsolete. The R15 has already been on the market for about a year. My guess is it has another year left being actively distributed on the market. Who knows where we go after that, will they make an upgraded standard def DVR, or just drop standard def all together. In a few years it will probably be HD only hardware, seeing as the HD hardware can still output a standard definition signal as far as i know.

Why support 2 product lines when the HD product line can technically output SD and HD signals. Just use whatever output signals your TV set can support and have one non-DVR reciever, and one DVR reciever for the market to pick from. not to mention they can focus their bug fixing on fewer platforms.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

d0ug said:


> Why support 2 product lines when the HD product line can technically output SD and HD signals.


Well, there's the additional storage space of SD.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Here we go again....


It is true though, it wasn't perfect and has gotten better with software releases. The R15 Wasn't perfect (still isn't) and has gotten better with each software release. I am not sure there will ever be a perfect DVR Tivo is darn good but not perfect. R15 is getting better and hopefully will continue to get better.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

OK.....Once again.....

This is no excuse. DTV was providing customers with a DVR that was, by all standards, the best on the market. Clearly it had features customers wanted. Clearly it was dependable and reliable. By far better than any other DVRs available from Dish or any Cable provider.

Yet, in all of their emence wisdom DTV made the decision to reinvent the wheel. And while doing so started with a square wheel. But that wasn't bad enough. They actually released that square wheel to their customers and have been "rounding it off" ever since. What we have now is a wheel more egg shaped with a bunch of bumps and still not delivering the promised "new technology".

DTV management made this decision to replace Tivo and should be held responsible for the disastrous result. Every new PC design doesn't start over using 360K floppys, MSDOS 3.1, , 64K of memory and monochrome monitors. In technology you build on past achievements. DTV has gone from the leader in DVR technology the laughing stock.

I just get very very tired of listening to folks say DTV should be given a break since it's their first DVR. Oh waaaa. Poor DTV.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't think anyone is saying they should get a "pass" because this is their first DVR..
And I don't think they are.... they have a MASSIVE HOLE from a PR point of view with the R15 to dig out off...
They are starting to make that hole smaller... but they still have a long way to go..

I think what Clint (and in general what I have tried to say)... that none of these products have been perfect out of the box..... 

Some have been much better then others.....

But for people to say... 
-) The R15 will never work right
-) The Software will never been as good as DTivo
-) ect... ect...

That get's just as tiresome...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But for people to say...
> -) The R15 will never work right
> -) The Software will never been as good as DTivo
> -) ect... ect...
> ...


Have I ever said anything like that?

I was going to let this one go...really. "Here we go again..." was going to be it.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Well sorry to break it to you and this is no excuse for the R15 but Tivo has had MANY growing pains also. They had many software releases that made the box better and better each release. It wasn't near as good as it is when it was released.


yes and a long time ago a bunch of people building planes crashed...but once thousand of planes are built, you felt pretty safe they wouldn't be comparing themselves to kitty hawk anymore


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Have I ever said anything like that?
> 
> I was going to let this one go...really. "Here we go again..." was going to be it.


I never said you did... (Hence why I didn't quote you).... 

Post #1 and #2 of this thread.. however....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I never said you did... (Hence why I didn't quote you)....
> 
> Post #1 and #2 of this thread.. however....


I understand your point Earl. But I also do understand those posts to a certain point.

Frustration seems to be the common denominator here. We're coming up on the new Fall TV season and hoping for first runs and dependable recordings. Both of which the R15 hasn't been able to provide since it's introduction in November of 2005.

Then you have this "problem" with updates. Let's suppose that tomorrow DTV comes out with 10D3, a version that will handle all first runs correctly and while it still has limits, it will work properly withing those limits. It could be well into the Fall TV season until every has this update.

But again I digress. I went off from Clint's defending of the R15 comparing it to the original Tivo released in the Fred Flintstone days. I truly need to stop that!


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Well now that I actually have one, you may see me get a bit bolder in my statements. And so far, I'm much more bothered by poor design than any actual defects. The former are much harder to change than the latter.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Frustration seems to be the common denominator here.


That fits my experience as you know I have loved the R-15, hated and stopped using it, etc... etc... etc.... but using it off and on since almost the beginning, I dont think you have, it has come a long way. It might be heard to believe but what we are using now in 10c8 is leaps and bounds better than 8 or so months back when 2-3-4 lockups in a day for me and not recording many SL's was not out of the question.

I am not saying it is perfect now, still needs work and I dont think anyone can deny that, but I honestly can see the light ahead.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> OK.....Once again.....
> 
> This is no excuse. DTV was providing customers with a DVR that was, by all standards, the best on the market. Clearly it had features customers wanted. Clearly it was dependable and reliable. By far better than any other DVRs available from Dish or any Cable provider.
> 
> ...


Never said they should be given a break. I also think the problem with thm and Tivo have to do with both sides and not just one or the other.

Yes they had a good product to start but in the nd they don't have that relationship any longer. The new product has issues and so does just about every other new product. Not making an excuse for them I could care less why it's broken but as long as they try and fix it I have to give them the benifit of the doubt.

I would love to see them redo their relationship with Tivo and offer two different DVR's (as long as the Tivo one would be supported) but I seriously doubt that will ever happen.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> yes and a long time ago a bunch of people building planes crashed...but once thousand of planes are built, you felt pretty safe they wouldn't be comparing themselves to kitty hawk anymore


Yet planes still do crash all the time and new planes still have issues and have to be made better. Odd thing it is.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I understand your point Earl. But I also do understand those posts to a certain point.
> 
> Frustration seems to be the common denominator here. We're coming up on the new Fall TV season and hoping for first runs and dependable recordings. Both of which the R15 hasn't been able to provide since it's introduction in November of 2005.
> 
> ...


Fred Flintstone days? How about the last new release I got that had issues? They where nowhre near as annoying as what the R15 has but then if my Tivo started having the issues the R15 has I would be mighty mad as "THEY" not some other company with different programmers and different methods of doing things would have broke it.

I understand your frustration VERY much I am just saying that like most every other software product out there it's getting better over time and with patches. Now as for the new distro time it's taking. Well I will shut up on that one


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

d0ug said:


> Why support 2 product lines when the HD product line can technically output SD and HD signals. Just use whatever output signals your TV set can support and have one non-DVR reciever, and one DVR reciever for the market to pick from. not to mention they can focus their bug fixing on fewer platforms.


I've wonder that myself. HD tech has been around for awhile now I thought they'd be able to put together the HD box for near to what they put SD box out for. At some point it would make sense to do this anyway since SD with be dead at somepoint (not anytime soon).


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## dmichaels1 (Jan 26, 2006)

All I was saying about the unit is that the software team has had 9 months to clean up the problems on the R15 since release and God knows how many months BEFORE the official release to get the software working and we are still seeing problems. I have no doubt that given another year, they will finally get it right (and add the missing features they've been working on). It seems to me that if D* was serious, they would devote more software engineers to the issue and fix it once and for all. 

I just hope they are using 90 percent or more of this code on any new models they come up with (including HD), and not reinventing the wheel. I would hate to see them starting from scratch again with another unit.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

dmichaels1 said:


> I just hope they are using 90 percent or more of this code on any new models they come up with (including HD), and not reinventing the wheel. I would hate to see them starting from scratch again with another unit.


Word from those who know (or at least those acquainted with those who know) is that this is not the case. Apparently the HD-DVR coming in "the next few weeks" has nothing in common with the R15 (which I'm sure many think is a good thing).


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> DTV was providing customers with a DVR that was, by all standards, the best on the market.


I hope you're not referring to Tivo. Granted, there are a lot of people that think it is the best thing in the world, but there are a lot of us that can't stand it. Especially if you ever used UTV. Now that was the best DVR ever. Too bad Microsoft bagged that program. It hasn't had an update in years, and still is far better than Tivo & the R-15 combined.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I was referring to the Tivo given that UTV hasn't been sold in some time.


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## rich0 (Feb 16, 2006)

I can certainly sympathize with the frustrations with the R15. In the end it ended up pushing me over the edge and now I'm happily running MythTV. I was just getting tired of explaining to the family that the TV would be working soon, and spending so much time tinkering with it. Towards the end the thing would not record shows more often then it recorded them. Playback would studder after not a long uptime, and I had to make a note to walk in and reset the box shortly before any important shows came on so that it would record them.

In the end it came down to wanting a box that worked, and that when it didn't work I could at least have some hope of fixing it myself. As an added bonus I can expand the recording space easily, have as many tuners as I like, free hi-def locals, and the ability to watch shows from any PC in the house and as many TVs as I care to hook up.

The only downside was some time on my part, and a fair amount of cost. No question the R15 is far cheaper (free in my case). I would have stuck with it if I saw a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm sure DTV will learn from their mistakes, and that each release would be incrementally better. However, in the end I can't consider a DVR usable unless it at least records 95% of the shows that are programmed. My VCR could do that reliably (with babysitting).


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## dmichaels1 (Jan 26, 2006)

As far as the HDTV unit coming, I think I'll wait a year for others to Beta test it for me. 
I hope it's much better release for those customers that have been waiting for it.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

TMullenJr said:


> Especially if you ever used UTV. Now that was the best DVR ever. Too bad Microsoft bagged that program. It hasn't had an update in years, and still is far better than Tivo & the R-15 combined.


AMEN! And it seems like fanboyism, but it's REALLY true. It's amazing. That was one product that only ever had one version of hardware, and only went through a couple of software updates, and it was GOOOOOD. Right on. And absolutely rock solid stable. NEVER had reliability problems of any sort. Absolutely superb. If DTV would stop charging $10/month for the service, I'd still have it to this day! But when I went for a second DVR, and had to go TiVo, I was going to have to pay $6 for TiVo AND $10 for UTV. So I ditched UTV for two TiVos. Never the same...

Ricky


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## Fygg (Oct 15, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> .... And absolutely rock solid stable. NEVER had reliability problems of any sort. Absolutely superb.


_--"Memories ..... light the corners of my mind
Misty, water-colored memories of the way we were."_

:grin:


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Fygg said:


> _--"Memories ..... light the corners of my mind
> Misty, water-colored memories of the way we were."_
> 
> :grin:


Boy, that's a blast from the past. I was afraid to see what I might have posted such a long time ago, but I think I did OK (I wasn't always so charitable on that forum):



walters said:


> What's bad for UTV isn't always good for TiVo. It just adds to the impression non-PVR owners have that "they're all buggy and not ready for prime time". It hurts the whole product category.
> 
> I sincerely hope for a speedy resolution to this problem.


Amazing that we're still talking about such things after five years. Reliability for this product category should really be a given by now.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> Amazing that we're still talking about such things after five years. Reliability for this product category should really be a given by now.


Agreed, it's odd that stability is not a given with DVR's (I'm not just talking about the R15) but now. By reading that it also seemed the Mircosoft was smart enough to have average joe tester rather than just D* employee's. ::Crosssing fingers:: I hope we get a shot at that at somepoint and hope we don't ever have an upgrade that wipes our shows.


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