# Your Android Phone Is Secretly Recording Everything You Do



## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Just a heads up for Android users. This seems pretty serious.



Gizmodo said:


> If you have any decently modern Android phone, everything you do is being recorded by hidden software lurking inside. It even circumvents web encryption and grabs everything-including your passwords and Google queries. Worse: it's the handset manufacturers and the carriers who-in the name of "making your user experience better"-install this software without any way for you to opt-out. This video, recorded by 25-year-old Android developer Trevor Eckhart, shows how it works. This is bad. Really bad.


Full article: http://gizmodo.com/5863849/your-android-phone-is-secretly-recording-everything-you-do


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## trdrjeff (Dec 3, 2007)

This his the Android sites overa week ago. Seems to mostly be on Samsung & HTC along with Blackberrys. Glad I am rooted though to remove such things.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> That's not just creepy, says Paul Ohm, a former Justice Department prosecutor and law professor at the University of Colorado Law School. He thinks it's also likely grounds for a class action lawsuit based on a federal wiretapping law.
> 
> "If CarrierIQ has gotten the handset manufactures to install secret software that records keystrokes intended for text messaging and the Internet and are sending some of that information back somewhere, this is very likely a federal wiretap." he says. "And that gives the people wiretapped the right to sue and provides for significant monetary damages."
> 
> As Eckhart's analysis of the company's training videos and the debugging logs on his own HTC Evo handset have shown, Carrier IQ captures every keystroke on a device as well as location and other data, and potentially makes that data available to Carrier IQ's customers. The video he's created (below) shows every keystroke being sent to the highly-obscured application on the phone before a call, text message, or Internet data packet is ever communicated beyond the phone. Eckhart has found the application on Samsung, HTC, Nokia and RIM devices, and Carrier IQ claims on its website that it has installed the program on more than 140 million handsets.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

SayWhat? said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/


Wow. Very interesting. Thanks for the link. I'm guessing that someone is gonna be in serious trouble here.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That's just...not good.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Other articles indicate its limited to certain devices primarily contracted by Sprint and RIM. I'm sure this will unfold with more facts as time goes on.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Other articles indicate its limited to certain devices primarily contracted by Sprint and RIM. I'm sure this will unfold with more facts as time goes on.


According to the ticker on their website, their "software" is currently deployed on over 141 million handsets. Doesn't seem very "limited" to me.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'm trying to figure out how this works on Blackberry, which is supposed to be a more secure system. I know I can log text messages of all the devices, and see their call history etc but certainly don't want the carrier intercepting encrypted email in the decrypted state, or simply recording key presses and sending it to the carrier.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"trdrjeff" said:


> This his the Android sites overa week ago. Seems to mostly be on Samsung & HTC along with Blackberrys. Glad I am rooted though to remove such things.


It takes more than rooting I believe, you need to use something Open Android based, like Cyanogenmod.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Of course, the other question, is all the stuff that was shown in the video actually saved and sent? Or is it more in a buffer that rolls off? I'd think if it actually sent everything, that would be a huge amount of data. Would that count towards your data cap?


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

It's NOT installed on VZW Android devices. Which if you ask me, that's a little surprising. I've checked my VZW devices and they are clear. 

Sprint is in bed with these people and that's the only carrier that I know is verified to use this spyware.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"dpeters11" said:


> It takes more than rooting I believe, you need to use something Open Android based, like Cyanogenmod.


Correct, rooting isn't good enough to purge this from your phone. Last I read you needed to flash a new ROM that doesn't contain this junk.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Here's an editorial from AndroidCentral about CarrierIQ, came out last night:

http://www.androidcentral.com/carrier-iq-evil-we-agree-and-hate-we-did-it

I have the original Droid and I know it's not on my phone, but my brother-in-law and sister have HTC Thunderbolts, so it's likely on their phones. I think every customer who has CarrierIQ installed by their carrier should be calling their carriers and complaining, demanding that it be removed.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Chuck Schumer get involved if this gains more publicity - he's very big on privacy issues and protecting consumers.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> Sprint is in bed with these people and that's the only carrier that I know is verified to use this spyware.


No wonder Sprint has unlimited data


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> According to the ticker on their website, their "software" is currently deployed on over 141 million handsets. Doesn't seem very "limited" to me.





dualsub2006 said:


> It's NOT installed on VZW Android devices. Which if you ask me, that's a little surprising. I've checked my VZW devices and they are clear.


Sounds like the fear factor is overhyped on this...nonetheless...there will likely be some changes made for those limited folks who have the code installed.

In comparison...I'd be far more worried about this happening with my phone...

http://www.zdnet.com/news/iphone-4-burns-in-flight/6330692


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sounds like the fear factor is overhyped on this...nonetheless...there will likely be some changes made for those limited folks who have the code installed.


Overhyped?? So you wouldn't mind having every text message you send, call you make, search you perform, email you send, password you type in, etc. etc. logged and possibly sent back to who knows who to see??

You keep using the word limited. You think 141 million+ devices is limited?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Overhyped?? So you wouldn't mind having every text message you send, call you make, search you perform, email you send, password you type in, etc. etc. logged and possibly sent back to who knows who to see??
> 
> You keep using the word limited. *You think 141 million+ devices is limited*?


Only if that number was accurate, which many places on the web already have indicate it is not. That's what makes it overhyped.

I'd be 1000 times more worried about my phone bursting into flames.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only if that number was accurate, which many places on the web already have indicate it is not. That's what makes it overhyped.
> 
> I'd be 1000 times more worried about my phone bursting into flames.


Wow.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Droidboi. 


This is why I've stopped actively participating in forums. :nono:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tcusta00 said:


> Droidboi.
> 
> This is why I've stopped actively participating in forums. :nono:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"hdtvfan0001" said:


>


Careful, google saw that.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tcusta00 said:


> Careful, google saw that.


I knew the nice silence all this time was going to end some day.

Maybe since I have nothing to hide, I'm not worried.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I knew the nice silence all this time was going to end some day.
> 
> Maybe since I have nothing to hide, I'm not worried.


Nope, you certainly lay it all out there for all to see. You're good at that.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

At least CarrierIQ has one defender.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tcusta00 said:


> Nope, you certainly lay it all out there for all to see. You're good at that.


Thanks. Ditto back at ya.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only if that number was accurate, which many places on the web already have indicate it is not. That's what makes it overhyped.
> 
> I'd be 1000 times more worried about my phone bursting into flames.


Over a hundred million possible phones with this is "overhyped," but 1 phone has a completely fluke incident at it's panic time? :lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"sigma1914" said:


> Over a hundred million possible phones with this is "overhyped," but 1 phone has a completely fluke incident at it's panic time? :lol:


Shhhh it could totally happen. Throw your phone out the window like I did. It'll be in the news tomorrow. I called a patch.com reporter over to report on the throwing.


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## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

For those that have nothing to hide, I hope our enemies aren't keystroke logging everything our military and political leaders are communicating on their cell phones.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sounds like the fear factor is overhyped on this...nonetheless...there will likely be some changes made for those limited folks who have the code installed.
> 
> In comparison...I'd be far more worried about this happening with my phone...
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/news/iphone-4-burns-in-flight/6330692


This post just goes so far over the line that it's impossible to ignore.

So what exactly is your point.

It reads like you personally feel that this CarrierIQ issue is overhyped, and you personally would be more worried about your iPhone exploding then having every keystroke recorded without your permission.

Simply amazing what some will post for all to read.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I just checked my original Droid, and no sign of the IQRD or IQ Agent processes running, so I'm in the clear. I've already told my brother-in-law and sister to start calling Verizon and demanding that they send an update to remove CarrierIQ from their Thunderbolts. This is totally unacceptable on one phone, let alone almost all HTC phones sold in the past year...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

All I'm saying is I don't want to know where millions of Android users are.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> All I'm saying is I don't want to know where millions of Android users are.


We're here, we're Green, get used to it!


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Lifehacker has some tips on how to remove it. Link - http://lifehacker.com/5863895/carri...everything-on-your-phone-and-how-to-remove-it


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

If the info is out there or in there, it can become the subject of a subpoena. As we all know, the never disappearing email and the overused text can end up causing grief you never intended to cause. That's why this is important for many:


Greg Alsobrook said:


> Lifehacker has some tips on how to remove it. Link - http://lifehacker.com/5863895/carri...everything-on-your-phone-and-how-to-remove-it


However, long ago I learned to live like there's a news reporter in the corner of any room I'm in intently watching and listening. It's an easy way to limit one's "exposure" to ridicule and/or prosecution.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> According to the ticker on their website, their "software" is currently deployed on over 141 million handsets. Doesn't seem very "limited" to me.


considering ATT has about 103 million customers, verizon has about 113 million, and those are only two of the myriad of national and international carriers, it is really not many when you look at the big picture


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, if you want to start skewing numbers, how many of those 216 million are 'smart' phones that would even be susceptible to this bug? 25%?

I know I don't have one. And never will.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I just checked my original Droid, and no sign of the IQRD or IQ Agent processes running, so I'm in the clear. I've already told my brother-in-law and sister to start calling Verizon and demanding that they send an update to remove CarrierIQ from their Thunderbolts. This is totally unacceptable on one phone, let alone almost all HTC phones sold in the past year...


Thunderbolt should be clear. My Incredible 2 does not have it, and it is newer than the TBolt.

It looks like dualsub2006 is right, and VZW may not be utilizing this spyware.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> This post just goes so far over the line that it's impossible to ignore.
> 
> So what exactly is your point.
> 
> ...


It is overhyped...read all the other posts yesterday concurring that it is, especially in the context that unlike the OP and headline...it is likely a limited issue with Sprint + RIM devices, and then not even ALL of theirs.

It's a wrong thing for any carrier to do. Period.

That said, Drew is right that it's *the carrier*, and *not the phones *as the source of the problem. The OP and headline paints an entirely different and misleading picture.

In contrast, the iPhone 4 is now suspect as for safety, which is 1000 times more of a concern to users.

There is an ABC News blog on this very topic here, which closely emulates this discussion - there are Apple users who poo-poo the report, Apple users who are concerned, and non-Apple users who take issue with the 1st group.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2011/11/iphone-4-explodes-midflight-on-australian-airline/

It illustrates and underscores that it *is* an issue and a concern for plenty of folks.

Even more important, like the OP here, BOTH reports are sensationistic, overplaying the facts as to the scope and scale of the issue.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ... In contrast, the iPhone 4 is now suspect as for safety, which is 1000 times more of a concern to users ...


Exactly, you feel that the Australian iPhone incident is of more concern then the CarrierIQ issue.

Certainly a doggie-type approach to attempt to distract the conversation, obviously carriers need to fix this.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Exactly, you feel that the Australian iPhone incident is of more concern then the CarrierIQ issue.
> 
> Certainly a doggie-type approach to attempt to distract the conversation, *obviously carriers need to fix this*.


Totally agree.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"Drew2k" said:


> told my brother-in-law and sister to start calling Verizon and demanding that they send an update to remove CarrierIQ from their Thunderbolts.


Unless their Thunderbolt are different from mine it isn't installed on these.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

dualsub2006 said:


> Unless their Thunderbolt are different from mine it isn't installed on these.


They had to remove it from the Tbolt in order to get more than 4 hours of battery life out of it - LOL!! :lol:

I'm just kidding and playing on the typical knocks on the Tbolt's battery life, which I know has improved considerably, so TBolt owners please don't get mad at me.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The OP and headline paints an entirely different and misleading picture.


The OP and headline are from a very well known tech blog.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> In contrast, the iPhone 4 is now suspect as for safety, which is 1000 times more of a concern to users.


How can you say that with a straight face after you've called this situation overhyped, overplayed and sensationalistic? That story is about one phone. *ONE*. It's not a recurring trend, it's a fluke! It's a lithium ion battery that got too hot. It happens.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

It looks like CarrierIQ has also been discovered in iOS as well.



Gizmodo said:


> Now, references to the same software have been discovered in Apple's iOS. But in this case, it only logs technical data and it's off by default.


Full story: Yes, Your iPhone Can Track You With Carrier IQ, Too - http://gizmodo.com/5864107/yes-your-iphone-is-tracking-you-with-carrieriq-too


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> How can you say that with a straight face after you've called this situation overhyped, overplayed and sensationalistic? That story is about one phone. *ONE*. It's not a recurring trend, it's a fluke! It's a lithium ion battery that got too hot. It happens.


Or perhaps the IMF now delivers missions via the iPhone - I'll have to check the app store for that one!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Based on the article, the iOS version seems much more reasonable. That is truly only for diagnostic purposes then.

I wonder if Blackberry's may be similar.


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## jadebox (Dec 14, 2004)

CarrierIQ's response:

http://www.carrieriq.com/Media_Alert_User_Experience_Matters_11_16_11.pdf

-- Roger


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

CM 7 on DINC looks clean.
Link to test app
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=17612559

QR for direct download


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

jadebox said:


> CarrierIQ's response:
> 
> http://www.carrieriq.com/Media_Alert_User_Experience_Matters_11_16_11.pdf
> 
> -- Roger


If CarrierIQ's software was on my phone (which it isn't), I'm not sure that response would make me feel a whole lot better.


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## trdrjeff (Dec 3, 2007)

It's definitely not a good thing in any light, although I have not seen where it has been exploited for evil...yet. 

also I just stated being rooted as a general term for all the other stuff that comes with that. I am running a custom Rom (Vortex which I highly recommend for anyone with a Droid X)


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/1/2602532/verizon-carrier-iq-denial


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I stopped worrying about privacy a long time ago. I know that whatever I do on my electronic devices is being monitored by someone, somewhere. 

Besides, I don't do anything illegal so I don't have anything to hide. If somene even cares that I went to Walmart and called my wife, more power to them.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Assuming that everything you do online is public is absolutely the right choice. However, I am not terribly pleased by the amount of "tattling" that my electronic devices do and I think that it's fair for manufacturers to disclose clearly what sort of information they are sending and to whom.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Lifehacker just posted an article showing how to make sure this is disabled on your iPhone: http://lifehacker.com/5864159/carrier-iq-is-tracking-your-iphone-too-heres-how-to-turn-it-off



Lifehacker said:


> Just head to Settings > General > About > Diagnostics and Usage, and tap "Don't Send". That's it!


Mine was set to "Don't Send" by default.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

I think after iOS 5 installed it asked if you wanted to send diagnostic data to Apple.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Lifehacker just posted an article showing how to make sure this is disabled on your iPhone: http://lifehacker.com/5864159/carrier-iq-is-tracking-your-iphone-too-heres-how-to-turn-it-off
> 
> Mine was set to "Don't Send" by default.


Same with my iPod Touch.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

The iPhone gives you the option when you set it up to select "send" or "don't send". Therefore for all of us who have it set to "don't send" it was something we selected in the initial setup process of the phone. If I remember correctly it was one of the final screens.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> I stopped worrying about privacy a long time ago. I know that whatever I do on my electronic devices is being monitored by someone, somewhere.
> 
> Besides, I don't do anything illegal so I don't have anything to hide. If somene even cares that I went to Walmart and called my wife, more power to them.


It's a slippery slope though. If you have your work email on a Blackberry and are an attorney, could it violate HIPAA or client confidentiality if information is sent without your knowledge?

As for not having anything to hide, I've gotten that response on other things. The local Community Council wanted to put cameras on top of our water tower and volunteers (Citizens on Patrol type) would monitor the feeds, and be able to move the cameras around, zoom in and out. The tower is right in the middle of the town and from the top would have views of homes etc. I was told why should I care if they checked inside my house if a blind was left open, as I surely didn't have anything to hide. Of course they also said that they'd be able to zoom into the recording just as well as when live, so they did also have a lack of tech knowledge.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And RIM says they do not install it on devices, nor do they authorize carriers to. Though that has happened in the past. I seem to remember a carrier in a Middle Eastern country (Oman maybe?) doing this.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/1/2...lled-on-blackberry-phones-says-rim/in/2365736


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

dpeters11 said:


> It's a slippery slope though. If you have your work email on a Blackberry and are an attorney, could it violate HIPAA or client confidentiality if information is sent without your knowledge?


That's kind of a different situation. Part of my job is in security and smart phones (especially those used for the military) are tighly controlled and have security measures built in so users can't do anything stupid.

If an attorney doesn't have an IT person on staff taking care of these things, he's not a very good attorney.


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

The thing that makes this troublesome is if you watch the video the guy puts his phone in airplane mode and shows the logcat of what the carrieriq stuff is doing still. 
They tried to sue him, and he got backed by EFF and they quickly pulled the suit and issued a statement saying what their software does and doesn't do. One of those things they said it doesn't do is record keystrokes or contents of messages. Both shown in the video to be flat out lies. 

I'm all for them doing what they say its "supposed" to do in which it monitors network performance and also users habits, and allows logs to be sent if there is a crash of some sort. That all in all helps manufacturers make phones better and carriers get to network issues quicker....least you would hope so. I'm fully aware at work each thing i type in the computer is logged b/c im told such. CarrierIQ's privacy policy is nowhere on the devices its installed on and thats a big nono. 

The tough battle here will be fighting carrieriq as they r in bed with Nielsen ratings and thats no small company there. 

*conspiracy hat on- they likely just pay sprint $ and then auction off all the user data to the highest bidder as all the information collected is valuable to someone. 
As someone stated its not in verizon phones, but i wouldn't be surprised if they dont have their own thing they use themselves....

Its truely amazing how deep this is put in the device. I'm over at xda a lot and its hard to even put a figure on the amount of time these guys have spent digging through all the code and removing it, more than months at the very least. Each time they think they have got it, they find something else.


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

Al Franken wants answers....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...n-just-sent-to-phone-rootkit-firm-carrier-iq/


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Al Franken wants answers....
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...n-just-sent-to-phone-rootkit-firm-carrier-iq/


He raises excellent questions. I hope they respond.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> That's kind of a different situation. Part of my job is in security and smart phones (especially those used for the military) are tighly controlled and have security measures built in so users can't do anything stupid.
> 
> If an attorney doesn't have an IT person on staff taking care of these things, he's not a very good attorney.


I'm betting there are a lot of large firms that had no idea this software existed, if it really did send keystroke logs to the carrier or Carrier IQ.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

John Gruber at Daring Fireball has translated the official statement:

http://daringfireball.net/2011/12/translation_carrier_iq


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> John Gruber at Daring Fireball has translated the official statement:
> 
> http://daringfireball.net/2011/12/translation_carrier_iq


haha always good stuff there.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> Well, if you want to start skewing numbers, how many of those 216 million are 'smart' phones that would even be susceptible to this bug? 25%?
> 
> I know I don't have one. And never will.


don;t know don;t care - went through the video and followed step by step on how to determine if it is on my HTC Inspire - none of the indicators, apps or processes where on the phone or running.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> I stopped worrying about privacy a long time ago. I know that whatever I do on my electronic devices is being monitored by someone, somewhere.
> 
> Besides, I don't do anything illegal so I don't have anything to hide. If somene even cares that I went to Walmart and called my wife, more power to them.





Chris Blount said:


> That's kind of a different situation. Part of my job is in security and smart phones (especially those used for the military) are tighly controlled and have security measures built in so users can't do anything stupid.
> 
> If an attorney doesn't have an IT person on staff taking care of these things, he's not a very good attorney.


As I said before, I discovered long ago that the best practice is to pretend that a news reporter is watching and listening to my activities 24/7. And long ago I figured out that given the billions and billions of bytes of electronic data out there, it's unlikely someone is paying much attention to me.

With that said, many have learned the hard way about the "searchability" of never-disappearing email, and that's only the tip of the potential lawfully "subpoenable" info the electronic world has created.

Unfortunately, the truth is that most sole-practitioner attorneys and small law firms don't even know what a competent IT person looks like. In fact, most small businesses and small local governments rely upon the guy who hung out a shingle because he once built a computer from a kit and discovered business will pay well for time from someone who appears to know more about computers than the janitor.

As an old guy, my concern is about the _*cumulative effect*_ of (this is what I can think of):

Lack of privacy on the internet
Lack of privacy associated with email
Lack of privacy on phone conversations being scanned by government super-computers
Lack of privacy on cell phones that can be monitored with the right scanner equipment
Now Lack of privacy on cell phones because of built in keystroke recording firmware
Lack of privacy because of store loyalty discount cards
Lack of privacy because of the electronics in vehicles
Lack of privacy because of all the stationary traffic and scanning security cameras
And now, lack of privacy because of drone aircraft video cameras
Basically, 100 years ago people didn't have the benefits that this stuff brings, but none of this was a privacy problem. The issue can't simply be dismissed with "I don't do anything illegal" or "I don't have anything to hide."

In fact, we all do things that are technically illegal like speeding or perhaps unknowingly wiring up something electrical without a permit that the local electrical code would require a permit for.

And while I don't have "anything to hide" sounds good, I do stumble around doing things I'd rather not appear on YouTube because I might be subject to humorous ridicule.

Two sides - benefit and risk - exist. At the extreme end, people can be saved from death and injury due to the thwarting of terrorist acts. But more people could be blackmailed into doing something that is harmful to others.

IMHO we won't reach some critical mass on the privacy issue until after I'm dead. But it will become a problem for my grandchildren. Of course, the government will be there to help them....


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Lookout (mobile security app) says the keystrokes are not sent back to the carrier.



> According to Wyatt, Lookout has not found Carrier IQ to be malicious in its practice although he did recognize that it does capture keystrokes on devices although they do not appear to be sending them to the wireless carriers.


http://www.androidguys.com/2011/12/01/lookout-weighs-in-on-carrier-iq-not-malicious-but-alarming/


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

hilmar2k said:


> Lookout (mobile security app) says the keystrokes are not sent back to the carrier.
> 
> http://www.androidguys.com/2011/12/01/lookout-weighs-in-on-carrier-iq-not-malicious-but-alarming/


I like lookout and all but without proof i dont buy it 100%. they have the ability to do anything they want as described before and can "call" "x" devices to report to them "x" things. Fact they log it to begin with is too suspect to just say they dont get that info ever.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Thunderbolt should be clear. My Incredible 2 does not have it, and it is newer than the TBolt.
> 
> It looks like dualsub2006 is right, and VZW may not be utilizing this spyware.





dualsub2006 said:


> Unless their Thunderbolt are different from mine it isn't installed on these.


Yeah, early information I read yesterday and the day before indicated it was on all HTCs. I was glad to read today that Verizon says 100% absolutely positively they do not have Carrier IQ on their phones...


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

It's installed by the carrier, not by the manufacturer, and all Verizon phones are clean. http://www.engadget.com/update/carrier-iq-which-companies-have-the-smarts/#continued


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

front page story at cnn.com (http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/01/technology/carrier_iq)

getting just a little press, now mainstream / non-IT press as well.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> Yeah, early information I read yesterday and the day before indicated it was on all HTCs. I was glad to read today that Verizon says 100% absolutely positively they do not have Carrier IQ on their phones...


Have a HTC Inspire through ATT, no indication it is installed on it


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, I guess the lawyers are going to get theirs.......



> *Carrier IQ, HTC, Samsung hit with class-action lawsuits*
> 
> Meanwhile, Carrier IQ offers more details about what its software does
> 
> ...


http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222378/Carrier_IQ_HTC_Samsung_hit_with_class_action_lawsuits


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Is this really a backdoor to the National Security Agency?
Is Carrier IQ an NSA front?
What does Verizon embed in their phones that performs the same function?

And just because you have something to hide doesn't automatically imply nefarious activities.

--- CHAS


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm sure Oliver Stone has been monitoring this thread as a candidate for his next book.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Neither of our phones (wife and I) have Carrier IQ on them. I have the HTC Droid Incredible (Verizon) and she has the LG Optimus T (T-Mobile)


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## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

Well ain't this a major kick in the head! Not really, it's just that the only way I can find old posts of mine is to put up a new post then click my name and search for other posts by me. Hint to forum masters...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

mystic7 said:


> Well ain't this a major kick in the head! Not really, it's just that the only way I can find old posts of mine is to put up a new post then click my name and search for other posts by me. Hint to forum masters...


Are you using a tablet? Because on a computer you just do it from the advanced search menu.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Or go to the *Members* tab above and search your name.

Or go to the *User CP* tab and click "View all Subscribed Threads"


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

mystic7 said:


> Well ain't this a major kick in the head! Not really, it's just that the only way I can find old posts of mine is to put up a new post then click my name and search for other posts by me. Hint to forum masters...


Well, you can click on the Members Button, Click on "Search Members" on right side of screen, Enter User Name and hit Go, then click on your User Name and Click on Statistics and you can then Select "Find all Posts by XXXXXXX".

That is how I do it all the time.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

mystic7 said:


> Well ain't this a major kick in the head! Not really, it's just that the only way I can find old posts of mine is to put up a new post then click my name and search for other posts by me. Hint to forum masters...





Richierich said:


> Well, you can click on the Members Button, Click on "Search Members" on right side of screen, Enter User Name and hit Go, then click on your User Name and Click on Statistics and you can then Select "Find all Posts by XXXXXXX".
> 
> That is how I do it all the time.


Even faster than that - 4 clicks and no typing:


Click "Quicklinks" in the "tab bar" at the top of any page.
Click "Your Profile"
Click "Statistics" in the profile page tab bar
Click "Find all posts by [me ... your username]"

Once you get there, you can even save the page URL as a bookmark to get to it faster in the future.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"phrelin" said:


> Are you using a tablet? Because on a computer you just do it from the advanced search menu.


In the mobile apps for Android and iPad there is a profile button in the menu bar. Hit that. Posts from you and threads started by you are right there.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Hey, Drew, thanks for that info as that led me to this info!!!

(1) Click on Quicklinks
(2) Scroll down to View My Posts And Click on it! Done!!! 

I learn something New every day if I stay Open Minded and Inquisitive as Inquiring Minds Have A Need To Know!!! :lol:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Richierich said:


> Hey, Drew, thanks for that info as that led me to this info!!!
> 
> (1) Click on Quicklinks
> (2) Scroll down to View My Posts And Click on it! Done!!!
> ...


:lol: I never looked at the top half of the Quicklinks menu!!!!!


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> :lol: I never looked at the top half of the Quicklinks menu!!!!!


That's funny, I never get by "Today's Posts" at the very top.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> :lol: I never looked at the top half of the Quicklinks menu!!!!!


We learn something New every day if we keep an Open Inquiring Mind!!! :lol:

I've been doing this Forum thing for years and years and I Never perused the Entire Quicklinks either until you mentioned what you did which led me to look further down the Quicklist to find that Entry labeled View My Posts.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Richierich said:


> We learn something New every day if we keep an Open Inquiring Mind!!! :lol:
> 
> I've been doing this Forum thing for years and years and I Never perused the Entire Quicklinks either until you mentioned what you did which led me to look further down the Quicklist to find that Entry labeled View My Posts.


Two maxims come to mind:

You can't teach an old dog new tricks
and 
Old habits are hard to break

I guess it's good every once in a while to explore different features of a site you think you know very well!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> Two maxims come to mind:
> 
> You can't teach an old dog new tricks
> and Old habits are hard to break.


Well, this Old Dog Just Learned A New Trick so I guess that Maxim doesn't apply to me. :lol:


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Carrier IQ Speaks Out


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe since I have nothing to hide, I'm not worried.


I hear that kind of reasoning all the time... "I have nothing to hide".. Well, as true as that may be, you have plenty to be misinterpreted about. My ex-wife once said, of a criminal case where something was videotaped, "why bother with a trial?". I made up the following "what-if" scenario..

I used to work at Fidelity Investments in Boston. One Friday every month, I'd be upgrading software and making sure the nightly data processing cycle ran on time. This meant my not getting out until midnight or so.

Now, there are cameras all over the facility (World Trade Center in Boston's waterfront district).

Let's suppose I've left the building. I get to the parking lot and realize I left my briefcase inside. I jog back into the building, get my briefcase and leave again, walking quickly and animatedly because it's VERY late and I still have an hour's drive home.

Moments after I leave, a bomb goes off in the building. Later that day, on the news, there's footage of me entering and leaving the building. You can't see if I'm bringing anything in, but you CAN see me leaving with a briefcase (contents unknown, if any) and I'm NOT walking 'normally'.

I've just been tried and convicted in the press.

You have nothing to hide on your phone? I *guarantee* that there's SOMETHING in that data that could be spun into something terrible looking - like some porn spam email that you deleted without looking at or some GPS information that had you going through some neighborhood when a crime was being committed.

No, you may have nothing to HIDE - but you have plenty that can be SPUN.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^^ Well, not only that, but suppose something is discovered missing, maybe some confidential company files, or a problem (bug, malware, spyware, keylogger) is found in the computer system planted by someone else.

Will they even look deeper than the timestamp where the guy is seen running with a briefcase?


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Carrier IQ Speaks Out





> And Coward is quick to point out that CIQ isn't doing anything nefarious with our text messages, either.
> 
> "We don't read SMS messages. *We see them come in.* We see the phone numbers attached to them. But we are not storing, analyzing or otherwise processing the contents of those messages."


I would think that right there would incriminate them for federal wire tapping. They admitted it's being transmitted back.


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