# HR34 and Whole-Home DVR, PIP, RVU



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

I noticed a new manual on directv.com covering SD, HD and Home Media Center HD DVRs. Link: http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DTV_HD_DVR_ComboGuide.pdf

The manual on page 30 details the PIP feature of the HR34, showing PIP as part of the new info banner. On page 81, the HR34 is referenced as a compatible receiver for Whole-Home DVR service, with further details and capabilities listed on page 87. Finally the back panel is shown on page 152.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Great find!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

For those that don't want the entire document.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

David Ortiz said:


> I noticed a new manual on directv.com covering SD, HD and Home Media Center HD DVRs. Link: http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DTV_HD_DVR_ComboGuide.pdf
> 
> . . . .


Nice find.

Reading about the HR34, I could exchange it for two HR21 and finally have PIP for my sports watching.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Can you spot the error on this page?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

The fact that the top menu features (when pressing info) are in the users guide now tells me that nothing there will be changing (moving info to the center and having it the default, shortcut for CC, etc.).

Additionally, this page (84) leads me to believe that HR's will never have the ability to schedule recordings on other DVR's with Whole Home.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

I thought it interesting that the HR34 can do 3 MRV streams simultaneously. The sentence on page 87 mentions this capability when connected to HD receivers as part of the Whole-Home DVR service "experience."


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> The fact that the top menu features (when pressing info) are in the users guide now tells me that nothing there will be changing (moving info to the center and having it the default, shortcut for CC, etc.).
> 
> Additionally, this page (84) leads me to believe that HR's will *never* have the ability to schedule recordings on other DVR's with Whole Home.


Never, huh!

You do realize we're only in the First version of MRV. Unlike you, I do expect WHDVR improvements in later MRV versions.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

never = "not soon"


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Drucifer said:


> Never, huh!
> 
> You do realize we're only in the First version of MRV. Unlike you, I do expect WHDVR improvements in later MRV versions.


Not to long ago there was a plan to not allow a "mixed" environment of HR34, and current gen equipment (it was going to be all one or the other.) I had heard that there was some wiggle room on that issue, and maybe this document confirms that.

I would hope that there will be some continued additions in the form of MRV improvements. Some really neat things could be done with an HR34, whole home, and current gen equipment.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

A trade-in program for the HR34 was mentioned here a while back as well. I wonder what the status of that is.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Can you spot the error on this page?


Last 5.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Awesome! The key points from this page are:

RVU or MRV, and up to 3 simultaneous streams!

Up to 5 tuner recording and 200 hours of HD storage. Sweet!

So with a single SWM8, you could have one HR34 and three H25's, and it looks like they can all watch the same recording simultaneously, assuming local playback is not counted as a stream. I'm guessing that's the case, because you can _currently _stream and watch an MRV recording locally.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

David Ortiz said:


> A trade-in program for the HR34 was mentioned here a while back as well. I wonder what the status of that is.


That was something discussed back in the now discontinued DIRECTV Insiders program as something the members asked for, that was the last I heard, we asked but no answer.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

I need one as a stand alone HD DVR for downstairs. Tuners are what I need. I would much rather having 1 box that can record 5 shows at once instead of two that record 2 each. This is exactly what I need. Hope they come out before to long. Might be willing to sign up for 2 more years if I can get one of them. We shall see I guess.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

I like the size of the HR-34 it looks like its not as big as the prototype model and is the same size as the HR-24. I guess it wont be the same price as the HR-24, $199.99? Can a non SWIM home be rewired with the HR-34 setup? I wonder if the HR-34 has to be on all the time in order for the other RVU Clients to work?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

"Doug Brott" said:


> Great find!


No kidding...

My hope was that the HR34 would work with WHDVR, and unless a mistake was made, my hope appears to be true.

Now if only we could hear pricing, so I can go ahead and put it on my wishlist.

~Alan


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

OK, I'll ask it, and likely get flogged for doing so...

Can you tack-on OTA to this?  If so, it's a great alternative to splitting up a signal to each DVR...


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I see it lacks the optical audio jack. big bummer. Maybe one of these days i am going to have to be forced to upgrade my surround sound receiver to have more than 1 coax input.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

ffemtreed said:


> I see it lacks the optical audio jack. big bummer.


Agreed. Would rather have optical than S-Video out.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I see it lacks the optical audio jack. big bummer. Maybe one of these days i am going to have to be forced to upgrade my surround sound receiver to have more than 1 coax input.





spartanstew said:


> Agreed. Would rather have optical than S-Video out.


That's a real issue? Seriously?

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-Coaxial-Optical-Converter/dp/B0002J2MV4


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I wonder if it will support unsupported ethernet MRV?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

So you're going to have to turn PIP on via a menu screen? I don't see anything saying that you can use the yellow button (yet). If thats the case, too many button presses if you ask me. They should have had dedicated PIP buttons on the remote, just like all the other providers. Also don't see anything mentioning side by side PIP like they had at CES.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> That's a real issue? Seriously?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-Coaxial-Optical-Converter/dp/B0002J2MV4


Yes, for me it is.

I don't want to have to go buy a new surround sound unit just to use this new box. Not to mention reopening my hidden wall to run different cables to support the audio. It is a real PITA.

I hate using those adaptors, they complicate everything when doing troubleshooting and they are usually the first thing to fail. I think of those adaptors as a stopgap temporary fix, rather than a permanent solution. With your gizmo box, that another power cord (more than likely a big wall wart) that I am going to have to hide as well.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't see any mention of the 50 limit series link! That is a good sign. I might be able to finally get rid of my seasonal spreadsheets!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> That's a real issue? Seriously?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-Coaxial-Optical-Converter/dp/B0002J2MV4


There's a difference between a "bummer"/ "would rather have XX" and a real issue, no?

Is it a deal breaker? No. Would I rather have optical? Yes.

Anything I can do to make it more clear for you?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> There's a difference between a "bummer"/ "would rather have XX" and a real issue, no?
> 
> Is it a deal breaker? No. Would I rather have optical? Yes.
> 
> Anything I can do to make it more clear for you?


Yes. Spell it out in animal crackers. Pretty please. 

It's amazing how a new product no one even has in consumer use is already being criticized for what it apparently doesn't offer rather than being praised for what it does.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I don't see any mention of the 50 limit series link! That is a good sign. I might be able to finally get rid of my seasonal spreadsheets!


Noticed that as well. Fingers-crossed since they doubled the storage capacity, they've relaxed that limit somewhat!


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

CraigerCSM said:


> I like the size of the HR-34 it looks like its not as big as the prototype model and is the same size as the HR-24. I guess it wont be the same price as the HR-24, $199.99? Can a non SWIM home be rewired with the HR-34 setup? I wonder if the HR-34 has to be on all the time in order for the other RVU Clients to work?


They can install SWM for MRV ugprades however it remains to be seen if you can order this specific receiver with an install by itself. So even if you can't you could order a WHDVR order to get SWM officially.

DIRECTV DVR's never really turn off so that won't be an issue.

With it only a few months away more information should start coming out "soon".


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Thanks for the link. 

That's the first time I've read a DirecTV manual. They're pretty good, written in English with a lot of pictures.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> Yes. Spell it out in animal crackers. Pretty please.
> 
> It's amazing how a new product no one even has in consumer use is already being criticized for what it apparently doesn't offer rather than being praised for what it does.


you mean like everyone is doing with the new TIVO that is supposed to be released?


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

LameLefty said:


> Yes. Spell it out in animal crackers. Pretty please.
> 
> It's amazing how a new product no one even has in consumer use is already being criticized for what it apparently doesn't offer rather than being praised for what it does.


You're seriously critcizing someone for pre-criticizing, and suggesting pre-praise as an alternative?

No bias there.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> It's amazing how a new product no one even has in consumer use is already being criticized for what it apparently doesn't offer rather than being praised for what it does.


There's nearly 600 posts of praise HERE.

Please keep up.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> There's nearly 600 posts of praise HERE.
> 
> Please keep up.


9,300+ posts of the same attitude right here. Noted.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Correct, I have no empathy for those that fail to comprehend or fully grasp the current discussion, but chime in anyway. Don't think that will change.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Ok let's get back to topic.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

OK.

BTW thanks for the thread David.

I'm so excited for this unit to be available. 5 tuners. MRV. PIP. Unbelievable.


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## scuba_tim (Sep 23, 2006)

What a great find, lots of great information. Maybe I should be waiting to upgrade with the new house.... hmmm.

Also found it interesting that DirecTV still plugs Intel Viiv media server (pg 88: "You must have at least one personal computer running a media server (e.g. TVersity, Windows Media Player, Intel Viiv)". 

Didn't Intel cut the cord on viiv a few years ago? Guess the media share portion really isn't getting any updates.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

Shades228 said:


> They can install SWM for MRV ugprades however it remains to be seen if you can order this specific receiver with an install by itself. So even if you can't you could order a WHDVR order to get SWM officially.
> 
> DIRECTV DVR's never really turn off so that won't be an issue.
> 
> With it only a few months away more information should start coming out "soon".


Thanks, also will the pip feature be like UVerse's and be available for all receivers? Could the HR34 be ordered without SWIM?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Thanks, also will the pip feature be like UVerse's and be available for all receivers? Could the HR34 be ordered without SWIM?


The document pages linked in the first few pages have answers to both those questions.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Thanks, also will the pip feature be like UVerse's and be available for all receivers? ...


No, note from p. 30;

Note: This feature [PIP] is only available on the TV connected directly to the
HOME MEDIA CENTER HD DVR (model HR34 and above).



> ... Could the HR34 be ordered without SWIM? ...


Even if you could, why would you want to order an HR34 without SWiM since it cannot function without it?

IOW it cannot work on non-SWiM tone and voltage legacy systems.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Can you spot the error on this page?





hilmar2k said:


> Last 5.


Was "Last 5" the error you meant?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

D'oh! The manual has been taken down!


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

David Ortiz said:


> I noticed a new manual on directv.com covering SD, HD and Home Media Center HD DVRs. Link: http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DTV_HD_DVR_ComboGuide.pdf
> 
> The manual on page 30 details the PIP feature of the HR34, showing PIP as part of the new info banner. On page 81, the HR34 is referenced as a compatible receiver for Whole-Home DVR service, with further details and capabilities listed on page 87. Finally the back panel is shown on page 152.


Well crap... looks like they took down the link. Oh well, at least you guys posted the good pages anyway. 

This thing looks like it has some great features. MRV compatibility alone is a winner! Now I may have to wait a little while longer before upgrading my old TiVo unit.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

David Ortiz said:


> Was "Last 5" the error you meant?


Yes, it's talking about Last 5, but the picture is for Audio/Video



David Ortiz said:


> D'oh! The manual has been taken down!


Glad I downloaded a copy.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Yes, it's talking about Last 5, but the picture is for Audio/Video
> 
> Glad I downloaded a copy.


I wasn't sure if it was that, or that it should be Last 4, or that the time should be no later than 2 pm.


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

Sure would be nice to have a copy of the manual


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

David Ortiz said:


> D'oh! The manual has been taken down!


I saved it.

I think, they didn't want the manual with HR34 content up this early.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm surprised it didn't show the HD GUI (unless the HR34 is really close).


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Drucifer said:


> I saved it.
> 
> I think, they didn't want the manual with HR34 content up this early.


Lucky I saved it too, and it also maybe shows that DirecTV regularly reads this forum.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

lzhj9k said:


> Sure would be nice to have a copy of the manual


It cannot be posted here ..


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> Lucky I saved it too, and it also maybe shows that DirecTV regularly reads this forum.


Or that they were tipped off...


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

limit of 3+1 may be a little to small. Does a Hx box take up a HR34 slot or only when you playing back a show from the HR34?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> It cannot be posted here ..


It's 10Mb

What if someone stores their files online?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> It cannot be posted here ..


It's too bad I didn't save the manual. If I had, then I could send it to someone if they sent me their email addy in a PM.


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey, I have always stayed out of these HR34 discussions just because of the fact that they get heated, but this is such a great find, and then for them to pull it?! Good find. PIP is a dealbreaker for me!! Since TV manufacturers have pulled the cord on PIP, Thanks D* !!!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> It's 10Mb
> 
> What if someone stores their files online?


I think you missed my point ..


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> It's 10Mb
> 
> What if someone stores their files online?


I believe Doug's point is that the file is owned and copyrighted by Directv. Posting it without their consent is illegal.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

LameLefty said:


> I believe Doug's point is that the file is owned and copyrighted by Directv. Posting it without their consent is illegal.


Well then, I just wont make it public.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

The selected pages shown help fill in some of the missing pieces of this baby. Sorry I was too late to the party to grab a peek at the online manual.

Having seen it at CES in the Samsung booth, look forward to their release so I can wish for one.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

PIP? Seriously....that's a big deal?

Hmmm....wonder why almost every TV manufacturer *no longer offers it*. 

Having also seen this unit firsthand at CES...and understanding its an *alternative way *to delivery *existing* WHDS and HD DVR capabilities for a target market...it is a nice alternative for those locations where it fits.

For DirecTV, its another way to cut costs on implementations (hardware).


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> PIP? Seriously....that's a big deal?


Yes, for some of us it is. PIP is nice to have for keeping track of two games. PIP has been available on cable and E* for many years. I don't know why it took so long for D* to add it.


> Hmmm....wonder why almost every TV manufacturer *no longer offers it*.


Probably because it was to complicated for the average user to use. If the TV didn't have two tuners you had to either use one receiver and the built in tuner, which limited the amount of channels you could get, or two receivers, which got too complicated with all the remotes that had to be used to control it all.

Having PIP built into the receiver is much easier for the average user. Hopefully they will implement the yellow button as a shortcut to activate it.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> PIP? Seriously....that's a big deal?
> 
> Hmmm....wonder why almost every TV manufacturer *no longer offers it*.
> 
> ...


Sports conflicts

Two of my more expensive feature loaded LCD have PIP. But it is not a feature expected in cheap ones. The drawback has been the small screen is SD. That's not a good selling point for PIP.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I'll definitely get one when released. I need the 5 tuners on one box.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> I'll definitely get one when released. I need the 5 tuners on one box.


Might entice me to give up one of my owner HR2X boxes and move to a leased plan with one of these. I might be able to watch something at night when my wife and kids have all the other boxes tied up. All depends on what the upfront cost of the box will be


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## Joke (Jun 15, 2011)

This box sounds great!

But damn I wish I had done more research before getting DirecTV installed last month. I went ahead and leased 3 HR24's because I knew two streams wasn't enough (and I wasn't sure 4 would be enough since I'd be managing them 2-by-2).

One HR34 with 5 streams and 2 non-DVR boxes would've been my ideal equipment setup -- no futzing around with scheduling stuff on 3 separate boxes.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled for the upgrade options once they roll this out. I'll feel like a jackass for spending more money, but it might well be worth it.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Joke said:


> This box sounds great!
> 
> But damn I wish I had done more research before getting DirecTV installed last month. I went ahead and leased 3 HR24's because I knew two streams wasn't enough (and I wasn't sure 4 would be enough since I'd be managing them 2-by-2).
> 
> One HR34 with 5 streams and 2 non-DVR boxes would've been my ideal equipment setup -- no futzing around with scheduling stuff on 3 separate boxes.


Since the HR34 isn't even released yet and no one knows when it will become generally available, you did the best research and got the best equipment to meet your needs that you could under the circumstances. Don't beat yourself up.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Joke said:


> But damn I wish I had done more research before getting DirecTV installed last month. I went ahead and leased 3 HR24's because I knew two streams wasn't enough (and I wasn't sure 4 would be enough since I'd be managing them 2-by-2).


Maintaining 3 schedulers can be a PITA. As someone with multiple HR's ATM, I know that well. That said, there are some advantages to going the way you went, IMHO:

150 SL's
300 hours of HD recording space
No single point of failure
Ability to pause LIVE TV wherever you're watching
If DirecTV someday gives us a unified TO DO LIST and SERIES MANAGER, for some folks, a 3 DVR set-up might be a more desirable solution than a single 5-tuner HR34. Just my .02.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Steve said:


> Maintaining 3 schedulers can be a PITA. As someone with multiple HR's ATM, I know that well. That said, there are some advantages to going the way you went, IMHO:
> 
> 150 SL's
> 300 hours of HD recording space
> ...


Regarding the single point of failure, wouldn't it be great if you could hook up an external drive to these boxes to backup your recordings? If a drive fails, you're covered. If the box fails, you connect your external drive to a new box and your recordings get copied to the main hard drive. I realize that recordings are tied to the original box; there would need to be a secure way to allow such a "restore" to a new box. It would be a great thing if there were a way to have a backup or a way to upgrade equipment without losing your recordings.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

David Ortiz said:


> Regarding the single point of failure, wouldn't it be great if you could hook up an external drive to these boxes to backup your recordings? If a drive fails, you're covered. If the box fails, you connect your external drive to a new box and your recordings get copied to the main hard drive. I realize that recordings are tied to the original box; there would need to be a secure way to allow such a "restore" to a new box. It would be a great thing if there were a way to have a backup or a way to upgrade equipment without losing your recordings.


That's something that folks have been asking for since the first HR20 hit the field. Maybe one day they might implement something but since they haven't yet I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I'd rather have 3 DVRs, too. I only have two but I'll get another one for cheap when my anniversary date comes up in October.

Of all of the great reasons Steve mentioned, maybe the most important one is redundancy. We're dealing with hard drives here, and the possibility of failure is relatively high for a piece of consumer electronics.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> PIP? Seriously....that's a big deal?
> 
> Hmmm....wonder why almost every TV manufacturer *no longer offers it*.


Better check again. I have started looking at TVs and PIP is making a comeback. Sony dropped it and now their newest models have it back, for instance.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> Better check again. I have started looking at TVs and PIP is making a comeback. Sony dropped it and now their newest models have it back, for instance.


Samsung also appears to be adding it back, one 2010 and two 2011 models had PIP on them that I purchased.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Better check again. I have started looking at TVs and PIP is making a comeback. Sony dropped it and now their newest models have it back, for instance.


Ya. It didn't go away because it was an unwanted feature, AFAIK. It went away as a result of the digital transition. Older sets used build in two analog tuners to allow PIP. Once sets needed to be ATSC-, NTSC- and in some cases QAM-capable, that meant up to 6 tuners might be required for PIP, which was probably cost prohibitive from a manufacturing standpoint. Digital-only tuner chips may be a lot cheaper now, so they're making a come back.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RAD said:


> Samsung also appears to be adding it back, one 2010 and two 2011 models had PIP on them.


With the multitude of different input options that people are starting to use these days, it's actually not surprising. The decline was when folks moved to Cable/Sat and needed a converter box .. Now "the box" is moving back into the TV with things like Netflix, Vudu and other streaming apps built right in not to mention RVU capabilities.

In other words, it's now become more likely that two different input options are in use than it was in the past. The key for a successful pip is the easy access to multiple sources.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> I'd rather have 3 DVRs, too. I only have two but I'll get another one for cheap when my anniversary date comes up in October.
> 
> Of all of the great reasons Steve mentioned, maybe the most important one is redundancy. We're dealing with hard drives here, and the possibility of failure is relatively high for a piece of consumer electronics.


Multi-DVRs are fine. It's the managing the multi-DVRs that's the pain as long as there is no network managing features.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> Once sets needed to be ATSC-, NTSC- and in some cases QAM-capable, that meant up to 6 tuners might be required for PIP, which was probably cost prohibitive from a manufacturing standpoint.


Most TVs still don't have dual tuners, even if they support PIP. On my TV, the PIP source can only be the tuner, and if you're watching the tuner, you can't use PIP.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drucifer said:


> Sports conflicts
> 
> Two of my more expensive feature loaded LCD have PIP. But it is not a feature expected in cheap ones. The drawback has been the small screen is SD. That's not a good selling point for PIP.


I don't buy that...and apparently most other folks don't either, or PIP would be a common feature.

NFL Ticket, MLB, and other sports packages have game mix offerings that show multiple game presentations at the same time if that's something someone wants.

After a few years of having it out there in the public....there's a reason most manufacturers don't offer PIP anymore - there was hardly any market for it.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't buy that...and apparently most other folks don't either, or PIP would be a common feature.
> 
> NFL Ticket, MLB, and other sports packages have game mix offerings that show multiple game presentations at the same time if that's something someone wants.
> 
> After a few years of having it out there in the public....there's a reason most manufacturers don't offer PIP anymore - there was hardly any market for it.


Even if that were true (which I'm not sure it is as I've always enjoyed PIP), times are changing. You don't think people want to watch a show and keep up with facebook via PIP? Or do a myriad of other things that TV's can now do at the same time?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> Even if that were true (which I'm not sure it is as I've always enjoyed PIP), times are changing. You don't think people want to watch a show and keep up with facebook via PIP? Or do a myriad of other things that TV's can now do at the same time?


Perhaps yes/perhaps no. :shrug:

Your example though...is at least an interesting one.


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

maybe they are updating the manual to show the new HD GUI ....


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rey_1178 said:


> maybe they are updating the manual to show the new HD GUI ....


Not yet. They just didn't intend for it to be posted.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> Even if that were true (which I'm not sure it is as I've always enjoyed PIP), times are changing. You don't think people want to watch a show and keep up with facebook via PIP? Or do a myriad of other things that TV's can now do at the same time?


People want to do this but they would use their phones, tablets, or netbook/laptops. Who has a facebook page or app up just to see what people say and not to respond. To each their own but the bottom line is that PIP is a niche product at best. It's like TiVo. People who like it love it and those who just want to watch tv don't care enuogh to make it an issue. Consumerism drives PIP not companies.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't buy that...and apparently most other folks don't either, or PIP would be a common feature.
> 
> NFL Ticket, MLB, and other sports packages have *game mix offerings* that show multiple game presentations at the same time if that's something someone wants.
> 
> After a few years of having it out there in the public....there's a reason most manufacturers don't offer PIP anymore - there was hardly any market for it.


Game mix - like NY Rangers, NY Nets, & NY Mets? Or game mix from one sport? Which I don't care about.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drucifer said:


> Game mix - like NY Rangers, NY Nets, & NY Mets? Or game mix from one sport? Which I don't care about.


Point taken, but user demand rare.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Point taken, but user demand rare.


Well, U-verse can do it.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

With 5 tuners on board it would be cool if it could do QUAD PIP, 4 channels at once on one screen.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> With 5 tuners on board it would be cool if it could do QUAD PIP, 4 channels at once on one screen.


That would require four video decoders. It's only going to have two.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

TheRatPatrol said:


> With 5 tuners on board it would be cool if it could do QUAD PIP, 4 channels at once on one screen.


For me that will be overkill.

What I would like is an Internet PIP. There been many time on TV I see a movie trailer and I want to look at its movie clock for my area.

Now I got to get my laptop, turn it on, etc., etc.. Really would be nice to use the Internet via the television, which in my home is always on.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Really would be nice to use the Internet via the television, which in my home is always on.


Well, sounds like you need an Internet-enabled TV.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> Well, sounds like you need an Internet-enabled TV.


The ones I seen take up the whole screen in Internet mode.

Actually, I don't care how I get it, as long as it is in a HD PIP.


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

Drucifer said:


> The ones I seen take up the whole screen in Internet mode.
> 
> Actually, I don't care how I get it, as long as it is in a HD PIP.


The HDTV's with a Web Browser don't do PIP?

I am with you Drucifer. It would be cool to have an instant on Internet instead of having to go to my laptop. It would be cool on the DTV Remote to have a button you would push that would launch a web browser and the live TV would go into a PIP mode. I wonder how a DTV Internet Remote would be designed? Have a flip down small keyboard and mouse on the remote? Only one thing what would happen if the web browser crashed?

However, the processors in current boxes might not be able to handle something like that? I read an article that said boxes may soon start coming with powerfull processors like the new Tegra 3 or Arm Processors.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

CraigerCSM said:


> It would be cool to have an instant on Internet instead of having to go to my laptop.


I already have that. It's called an iPad...  

I can't say that I would never use the PiP function, because I probably would, but it's not really a selling point to me. HOWEVER, the "potential" lack of a limit on Series Links, and the rumored eSATA support are a selling point to me (well, the eSATA support is POTENTIALLY a selling point to me).

~Alan


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wonder how a DTV Internet Remote would be designed?


It would integrate with Kinect and Xbox Live Avatars. Probably only via coax though.


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

Alan Gordon said:


> I already have that. It's called an iPad...
> 
> I can't say that I would never use the PiP function, because I probably would, but it's not really a selling point to me. HOWEVER, the "potential" lack of a limit on Series Links, and the rumored eSATA support are a selling point to me (well, the eSATA support is POTENTIALLY a selling point to me).
> 
> ~Alan


I wouldn't like holding a tablet all the time. Just grabbing the DTV remote and pushing a button to load the web browser would still be better.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wouldn't like holding a tablet all the time. Just grabbing the DTV remote and pushing a button to load the web browser would still be better.


Because grabbing the iPad and pushing a button to load the web browser is so difficult?


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

sigma1914 said:


> Because grabbing the iPad and pushing a button to load the web browser is so difficult?


Ipad's are heavier than a remote.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Ipad's are heavier than a remote.


Kinect doesn't require a remote. Plus it works with coax RVU over WiFi.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wouldn't like holding a tablet all the time. Just grabbing the DTV remote and pushing a button to load the web browser would still be better.


Who said I sit around holding my iPad all the time?!?! 

I have it beside me... 

~Alan


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

Alan Gordon said:


> Who said I sit around holding my iPad all the time?!?!
> 
> I have it beside me...
> 
> ~Alan


Sorry I should have said some of the time.


----------



## matthew999 (May 23, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I'll definitely get one when released. I need the 5 tuners on one box.


Anyone care to speculate on what DTV would charge for the mirroring fee?

Could it be $17.475 per box ??


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

matthew999 said:


> Anyone care to speculate on what DTV would charge for the mirroring fee?
> 
> Could it be $17.475 per box ??


I suspect somwhere around the $20 mark, $19.95 sounds just about right. That will include:

HR-34 (after $399.00 intial lease fee)
MRV 
DVR Service
RVU client connectivity

C30 RVU clients will be a one time purchase (like AM21 OTA tuners).
Additional receivers/dvrs will be leased at current rates.


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

A $20 flat fee for the HR-34 would be cool. No mirroring or tuning fees. However, would be worth it charging a $6 mirroring fee to be able mirror DTV on other RVU devices?


----------



## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

The monthly pricing options will determine if that I upgrade to this type of setup. All depends on how they charge for the additional receivers/tuners past the 1st two on the hr34


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Don't forget that the first run of equipment might be user for new installs only. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> For those that don't want the entire document.


Muahahaha...!!! The third pic you included is the best, actual specs / details...


----------



## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> That's a real issue? Seriously?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-Coaxial-Optical-Converter/dp/B0002J2MV4


Wow, I wouldn't have guessed they even made such a critter...


----------



## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> It's too bad I didn't save the manual. If I had, then I could send it to someone if they sent me their email addy in a PM.


!rolling


----------



## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Regarding the single point of failure, wouldn't it be great if you could hook up an external drive to these boxes to backup your recordings? If a drive fails, you're covered. If the box fails, you connect your external drive to a new box and your recordings get copied to the main hard drive. I realize that recordings are tied to the original box; there would need to be a secure way to allow such a "restore" to a new box. It would be a great thing if there were a way to have a backup or a way to upgrade equipment without losing your recordings.


And now you're about to wake up from your dream...

But I'm right there with you.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Tom Robertson said:


> Don't forget that the first run of equipment might be user for new installs only.


This would be my suspicion. 

Though I could be wrong given the fact that RVU TVs aren't yet in abundance, another suspicion of mine is that this thing will be CRAZY popular and in high demand (ala WHDVR). My hope is that Pace (possibly LG too?!?!?!) will be cranking these babies out BIG TIME...

~Alan


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Don't forget that the first run of equipment might be user for new installs only.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Noooooooooooo! I want a HR34 nowwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!! :lol:


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> This would be my suspicion.
> 
> Though I could be wrong given the fact that RVU TVs aren't yet in abundance, another suspicion of mine is that this thing will be CRAZY popular and in high demand (ala WHDVR). My hope is that Pace (possibly LG too?!?!?!) will be cranking these babies out BIG TIME...
> 
> ~Alan


If the average MRV user today has to pay much to upgrade (which I think they will), I don't think there will be much demand from the existing users.

What I do see as the potential for high demand is if it becomes the next advertising platform. Much like the current "pause in one room, resume in another" adds running today, the HR-34 could become the basis for a "no set-top-box" in every room campaign. This would certainly be a way to differentiate from DISH and cable.

Downside: If there is high demand in this area, they will have to give them away pretty cheaply so they won't have much drive to offer low upgrade pricing to existing users. Not to mention a lean inventory situation like there was when the HR-24 was the MRV device of choice for new installs.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> What I do see as the potential for high demand is if it becomes the next advertising platform. Much like the current "pause in one room, resume in another" adds running today, the HR-34 could become the basis for a "no set-top-box" in every room campaign. This would certainly be a way to differentiate from DISH and cable.


That would require far more TVs to support RVU. And quite honestly, I don't see the happening.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

BattleScott said:


> If the average MRV user today has to pay much to upgrade (which I think they will), I don't think there will be much demand from the existing users.


I don't think it will be cheap (though I still hope the trade-in rumor is correct, because I will have a HR23-700/HR20-700 waiting for them).



BattleScott said:


> What I do see as the potential for high demand is if it becomes the next advertising platform. Much like the current "pause in one room, resume in another" adds running today, the HR-34 could become the basis for a "no set-top-box" in every room campaign. This would certainly be a way to differentiate from DISH and cable.


There are multiple reasons why I think it will be in high demand. One of them is simply the fact that it appears it will be marketed as the HOME MEDIA CENTER. I think many people will be lured by the name. I have other reasons too...



BattleScott said:


> Downside: If there is high demand in this area, they will have to give them away pretty cheaply so they won't have much drive to offer low upgrade pricing to existing users. Not to mention a lean inventory situation like there was when the HR-24 was the MRV device of choice for new installs.


Yep!

~Alan


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Just curious why couldn't DTV just use the standard DNLA that is alot of devices already? Is not not secure enough and RVU has DNLA that would prevent copying of TV Shows and Movies?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Just curious why couldn't DTV just use the standard DNLA that is alot of devices already? Is not not secure enough and RVU has DNLA that would prevent copying of TV Shows and Movies?


Almost no devices support the DTCP-IP encryption that DirecTV uses. RVU requires it.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Almost no devices support the DTCP-IP encryption that DirecTV uses. RVU requires it.


So the HR-34 has DTCP-IP built into it and DNLA can't talk that? If, so why did DTV choose DTCP-IP instead of DNLA? Wouldn't that have been easier? I guess DTCP-IP is more secure than DNLA?


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> That would require far more TVs to support RVU. And quite honestly, I don't see the happening.


Why? They have the C30 client device, no need for RVU capable sets.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> So the HR-34 has DTCP-IP built into it and DNLA can't talk that? If, so why did DTV choose DTCP-IP instead of DNLA? Wouldn't that have been easier? I guess DTCP-IP is more secure than DNLA?


DirecTV does use DLNA, it's just that the actual data stream is encrypted with DTCP-IP.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Why? They have the C30 client device, no need for RVU capable sets.


The C30 is an STB, and you said:


BattleScott said:


> the HR-34 could become the basis for a "no set-top-box" in every room campaign.


The only way for there to be no STB is if the TV supports RVU.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Just curious why couldn't DTV just use the standard DNLA that is alot of devices already? Is not not secure enough and RVU has DNLA that would prevent copying of TV Shows and Movies?


DLNA does not give programmers all the tools necessary to do the job. Copy protection is in DLNA (as an option) but the RVU alliance wanted a way to also give the server's user interface to the client.

So when a client connects to the DIRECTV RVU Server, the user will see DIRECTV's user interface.

RVU is built upon many existing tools:
DLNA (with DTCP-IP), which is built upon
UPnP, which is built upon
TCP/IP and Ethernet or MoCA, which are built upon
many other technologies.

They are all layers of new features and tools for the developers.

So DIRECTV is building upon DLNA, just also created a standard of other tools that go with DLNA.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The C30 is an STB, and you said:
> 
> The only way for there to be no STB is if the TV supports RVU.


Not by an advertisers definition it's not, it's a "client device". They will easily work that into the mouse print.

"receiverless viewing requires an RVU certified TV. RVU client adapters required for RVU viewing on non-RVU sets."


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

BattleScott said:


> Not by an advertisers definition it's not, it's a "client device". They will easily work that into the mouse print.
> 
> "receiverless viewing requires an RVU certified TV. RVU client adapters required for RVU viewing on non-RVU sets."


Even most advertisers would not go that route. 

It is a box that sits on top of the set enabling one to get the TV they want. The users won't see a difference from their viewpoint.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Not by an advertisers definition it's not, it's a "client device". They will easily work that into the mouse print.


It may not be a *receiver*, but it is absolutely an STB. Just like Roku, AppleTV, etc. are all STBs as well.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Tom Robertson said:


> DLNA does not give programmers all the tools necessary to do the job. Copy protection is in DLNA (as an option) but the RVU alliance wanted a way to also give the server's user interface to the client.
> 
> So when a client connects to the DIRECTV RVU Server, the user will see DIRECTV's user interface.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I think I get it now. Just standard DNLA and the other protocols wont let you see the DTV interface but RVU ontop of those will.

I can also see some cool DTV ads with RVU. They could show people watching DTV on PCs, Game Consoles, BluRay Players, and Tablets.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I can also see some cool DTV ads with RVU. They could show people watching DTV on PCs, Game Consoles, BluRay Players, and Tablets.


Those devices would have to support RVU first.


----------



## bobvick1983 (Mar 21, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Don't forget that the first run of equipment might be user for new installs only.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I wonder if we will be able to get one of these through Solid Signal or another retailer at the lease price and add it on to our system ourselves. I have 2 HR24's now and a H25, but I would like to replace one of the HR24's with this for the extra tuners.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Those devices would have to support RVU first.


Sorry I should have said RVU supported. I wonder with PC's and Mac's the RVU protocols would be built into Windows 8 and OS X Lion and above?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Sorry I should have said RVU supported. I wonder with PC's and Mac's the RVU protocols would be built into Windows 8 and OS X Lion and above?


OS X Lion is complete, and will not have RVU built-in. I would be shocked if Windows 8 had RVU built-in.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Sorry I should have said RVU supported. I wonder with PC's and Mac's the RVU protocols would be built into Windows 8 and OS X Lion and above?


As we've mentioned in the other thread, RVU applications can be written. But Don't expect them to be built in anytime soon.

(Now, Windows 9 might have an AllVid client builtin if the FCC ever finishes the AllVid spec.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Now, Windows 9 might have an AllVid client builtin if the FCC ever finishes the AllVid spec.


Would it have to be connected via coax?


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Tom Robertson said:


> As we've mentioned in the other thread, RVU applications can be written. But Don't expect them to be built in anytime soon.
> 
> (Now, Windows 9 might have an AllVid client builtin if the FCC ever finishes the AllVid spec.)
> 
> ...


I am understanding that now, when you used the word App I got confused with that. An App is like a protocol right? I guess Microsoft and Apple would have to announce that they are apart of the RVU Alliance right? I know Sony is a part of the RVU Alliance so maybe we will see an App for the Playstation 3 or 4 soon?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Would it have to be connected via coax?


Nah, Ethernet would do.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> An App is like a protocol right?


Nope.


CraigerCSM said:


> I guess Microsoft and Apple would have to announce that they are apart of the RVU Alliance right?


Nope. Whether or not Microsoft or Apple are members, apps can be written for their platform that take advantage of RVU.


CraigerCSM said:


> I know Sony is a part of the RVU Alliance so maybe we will see an App for the Playstation 3 or 4 soon?


It's possible.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Nah, Ethernet would do.


Now I understand. :lol:


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Nope.
> 
> Nope. Whether or not Microsoft or Apple are members, apps can be written for their platform that take advantage of RVU.
> 
> It's possible.


I guess I need to study networking more online. Networking seems really complex. I just know a simple wifi network. Hooking one PC up to a DSL Wifi modem and hooking a laptop and a PS3 into that Wifi network.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

One detail to be aware of, whomever publishes an application to RVU specs probably needs to be some level of member to get the specification and then to get the DTCP-IP keys. (Though the keys might also be possible to get _and use_ from another licensing agreement.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I guess I need to study networking more online.


That would be quite helpful. You don't even need to get that deep into it, just get a firm grasp of the basics and you'll be fine.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

CraigerCSM said:


> I guess I need to study networking more online. Networking seems really complex. I just know a simple wifi network. Hooking one PC up to a DSL Wifi modem and hooking a laptop and a PS3 into that Wifi network.


I've set up multiple networks over the years, and I'll be honest, I'm STILL easily confused by it. Every time an issue pops up, I have to rack my brain in order to remember the details.

Networking is an area of technology I wish I understood better...

~Alan


----------



## jbaron76 (Mar 1, 2007)

This receiver looks great! Too bad there is no way to reward loyal customers with a good deal on an upgrade. It would be nice if D* would offer some sort of technology update program for us loyal customers who have been with D* for 5+ years.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Mike Bertelson said:


> I believe it's and application layer protocol and should work on IP networks. IIUC, RVU would need something other than a NIC to do so.


Yep, it's at layer 7. Meaning it needs a NIC, CPU, GPU, and RAM at the very least.


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Thanks for that. They say it is supposed to be a pixel accurate UI. Do you think that is true and the PQ would still be up to 1080p? Just curious will they have RVU Ethernet Cards?


RVU is not a hardware function, so there would be no such thing as an RVU Ethernet card. Only devices with video outputs/displays, processors, network connectivity and the ability to execute software applications (tvs, game consoles, pcs, etc.) will have RVU client applications, they are the only place it can be implimented and used.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

BattleScott said:


> RVU is not a hardware function, so there would be no such thing as an RVU Ethernet card. Only devices with video outputs/displays, processors, network connectivity and the ability to execute software applications (tvs, game consoles, pcs, etc.) will have RVU client applications, they are the only place it can be implimented and used.


When will RVU devices like PC's, BluRay Players and Game Consoles start showing up?


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> When will RVU devices like PC's, BluRay Players and Game Consoles start showing up?


Ask the RVU Alliance and check the websites of the affiliated companies.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> When will RVU devices like PC's, BluRay Players and Game Consoles start showing up?


- Personal Comment

Blu-Ray, probably at CES you will see some

PC's and Game Consoles... just don't see it, given what RVU is driving for.

You need to remember, in the longer term plan of RVU, the "host" equipment may not ben in the same room as teh display device. It may be in another room, or basement... just not in the room.

So "control" device, would go through the display screen... and send back to the host.

For Game Consoles, that is going to introduce some lag... and with Today's and Tomorrow's gaming consoles and game, that lag is not going to be acceptable. Not to mention the graphical requirements... I can't see an RVU game console being to talk to muliple display devices.

PC's border line... maybe as an external display.
But again...same thing with control. A solid quality keyboard, and pointing mechanism. Some of the remotes today, may be able to do it... but you would be then looking at an expensive OEM remote to support it.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Earl Bonovich said:


> - Personal Comment
> 
> Blu-Ray, probably at CES you will see some
> 
> ...


In the RVU diagram they show a Minitower PC hooked into an RVU setup. Also what about more RVU HDTV's? Samsung's the only ones that are out now right?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> In the RVU diagram they show a Minitower PC hooked into an RVU setup. Also what about more RVU HDTV's? Samsung's the only ones that are out now right?


Hence why I said border line on the PC.
It technically can be done... I am just not sure what the interaction would be like and what you get out of it. Looking at my PC right now... I can't picture interacting with it, on my TV... anywhere close to what I am doing right now.

As for other HDTV's vendors. I am sure there are other looking at it, but I am only aware of the same public information on that topic you all are on... and that is Samsung.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hence why I said border line on the PC.
> It technically can be done... I am just not sure what the interaction would be like and what you get out of it. Looking at my PC right now... I can't picture interacting with it, on my TV... anywhere close to what I am doing right now.
> 
> As for other HDTV's vendors. I am sure there are other looking at it, but I am only aware of the same public information on that topic you all are on... and that is Samsung.


Sorry I missed that boardline part. I think the HR-34 would be a good replacement for that PC USB Tuner that DTV dropped awhile back. On the PC you could have both a web browser and the DTV Picture on the same screen. You could have an instant on Internet just a push of a button on the Windows Media Center Remote and the web browser pops up.

Also do you think their would be lag on game consoles? The next generation of game consoles will have more power than the current ones.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Also do you think their would be lag on game consoles? The next generation of game consoles will have more power than the current ones.


Lag on controls. Regardless how fast your RVU connection is... there is no dobut it will take time for the control command to make to console, it does it's logic, and then sends it back.

And the fact that newer systems are going to need even more instant control... that is where the lag is...

If I tried playing COD:Black Ops on that type of connection, I would get fragged up a whole lot more then I already do.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> - Personal Comment
> 
> Blu-Ray, probably at CES you will see some
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure you've got it backwards, with all of these devices actually being discussed as clients clients and not hosts. Game consoles and PCs wouldn't make much sense as RVU hosts for the reasons you specified.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Lag on controls. Regardless how fast your RVU connection is... there is no dobut it will take time for the control command to make to console, it does it's logic, and then sends it back.
> 
> And the fact that newer systems are going to need even more instant control... that is where the lag is...
> 
> If I tried playing COD:Black Ops on that type of connection, I would get fragged up a whole lot more then I already do.


So are RVU HDTV's and BluRay players the only RVU client devices that would be fast enough to handle the RVU commands? I forgot that RVU Clients would also have to interpret the DTV remote control commands also.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> So are RVU HDTV's and BluRay players the only RVU client devices that would be fast enough to handle the RVU commands? I forgot that RVU Clients would also have to interpret the DTV remote control commands also.


I think you are loosing prospective on what you are controlling.

TV and Player Devices (of any type) don't need split-milli-second timming on control request.

Game Consoles, do.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm pretty sure you've got it backwards, with all of these devices actually being discussed as clients clients and not hosts. Game consoles and PCs wouldn't make much sense as RVU hosts for the reasons you specified.


Must not have worded it properly... 
Yes, those type of devices woudl be source/host devices.


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm pretty sure you've got it backwards, with all of these devices actually being discussed as clients clients and not hosts. Game consoles and PCs wouldn't make much sense as RVU hosts for the reasons you specified.


Correct. In the absence of an RVU ready TV, Game consoles, BD players, etc. would make perfect RVU clients. Why have 2 boxes where you only need one?

PC's (towers, laptops, tablets, etc.) would also be a natural fit for RVU.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Is the point of an RVU capable Blu-ray player to be a client to an RVU server, like the HR34, essentially taking the place of the C30?

Or will there be Blu-ray players that are also RVU servers so you would be able to watch a Blu-ray movie on any TV that was RVU connected or compatible?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> Is the point of an RVU capable Blu-ray player to be a client to an RVU server, like the HR34, essentially taking the place of the C30? Or will there be Blu-ray players that are also RVU servers so you would be able to watch a Blu-ray movie on any TV that was RVU connected or compatible?


Yes to both actually.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

I know I talked about RVU coming with Windows or OS X but RVU wouldn't really come with it built in anyway, Microsoft and Apple would have to write an RVU App for their OS's. I wonder if Microsoft and Apple would ever write an RVU App soon? I guess we really wont know about RVU Clients until CES 2012?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

A third party could write an app. Windows and Microsoft simply provide the operating system and RVU does not have to be built in.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a reimagined DIRECTV2PC RVU client app.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a reimagined DIRECTV2PC RVU client app.


That would be cool. Have it on DTV's site and download to a PC, Laptop or Tablet. Maybe even a Mac. I think I am finnally starting to understand the whole RVU system. I kept forgetting about the server/client relationship and that clients have to be able to talk to the servers. The RVU App would let the RVU Clients talk the RVU server. Then the RVU Client would be able to see the DTV interface on the RVU Client device.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> The RVU App would let the RVU Clients talk the RVU server.


The RVU app would be the RVU client.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> The RVU app would be the RVU client.


Oh see now. I guess I was combing the Client Box and RVU App into one thing, sorry. I wonder if DTV could even do an RVU App on DVD and be able to install it on other devices? Or would they still have to be RVU Certified first?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wonder if DTV could even do an RVU App on DVD and be able to install it on other devices?


What devices besides a PC allow apps to be installed via DVD?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Blu-Ray, probably at CES you will see some.


I'll bet you won't unless there is a broad announcement of RVU capable server hardware first (or simultaneously). That would necessarily mean broader than the HR34 (assuming DIRECTV can find an excuse to announce it without having an official CES presence).


> PC's and Game Consoles... just don't see it, given what RVU is driving for.


AT&T has already done it. Modern game consoles have most of the required hardware as well as the necessary support for DLNA and even availability of a TV style remote.


> You need to remember, in the longer term plan of RVU, the "host" equipment may not ben in the same room as teh display device. It may be in another room, or basement... just not in the room.


How does this count out any manner of client device?


> For Game Consoles, that is going to introduce some lag... and with Today's and Tomorrow's gaming consoles and game, that lag is not going to be acceptable. Not to mention the graphical requirements... I can't see an RVU game console being to talk to muliple display devices.


If by "Game Consoles", you're talking about the likes of the Nintendo Entertainment System, yes. Otherwise, you're typically talking much more sophisticated media capabilities and horsepower than are in any cable or satellite DVR.

The question as I see it comes down to one of DRM as opposed to any hardware limitations.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> What devices besides a PC allow apps to be installed via DVD?


All modern gaming consoles and Blu-ray devices.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> All modern gaming consoles and Blu-ray devices.


Weird, neither my Xbox 360 nor my Samsung Blu-ray player allow me to install anything via DVD. Both of them will install stuff off the Internet, though.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Weird, neither my Xbox 360 nor my Samsung Blu-ray player allow me to install anything via DVD. Both of them will install stuff off the Internet, though.


The PS3 allows for installing a digital copy DVD.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerCSM said:


> Oh so Apps can't be installed on DVD's?


The bigger question is how you're going to load DVD-based software into your intended client device if it doesn't have a built-in DVD capable drive.

Most devices will get their updated code from a network connection anyway. All RVU devices will have a network connection by definition.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

harsh said:


> The bigger question is how you're going to load DVD-based software into your intended client device if it doesn't have a built-in DVD capable drive.
> 
> Most devices will get their updated code from a network connection anyway. All RVU devices will have a network connection by definition.


They could do both RVU App DVD's and download the RVU App. Would client devices still have to be RVU certified to be able to install the RVU App? Or would just installing the RVU App make the client device RVU certified?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Would client devices still have to be RVU certified to be able to install the RVU App? Or would just installing the RVU App make the client device RVU certified?


The app would be developed by an RVU Alliance member, and that's all that's necessary.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Weird, neither my Xbox 360 nor my Samsung Blu-ray player allow me to install anything via DVD.


If you place the Xbox firmware update file ($systemupdate_<date>_<version>.zip) on a DVD and stick it in the drive, the Xbox 360 will automatically recognize what is going on and install it. This technique also works with USB drives.

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar wasn't available for your Blu-ray player.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> The app would be developed by an RVU Alliance member, and that's all that's necessary.


Could Microsoft's TV Guide in Media Center be used with RVU instead of using DTV's interface?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Certification of RVU is a kind of a slippery slope as it depends on technologies that have no certification process.

As HDMI proved, even with a formal certification, things don't always work together.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerCSM said:


> Could Microsoft's TV Guide in Media Center be used with RVU instead of using DTV's interface?


RVU is an extension of the receiver, not a replacement for any part of it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> If you place the Xbox firmware update file ($systemupdate_<date>_<version>.zip) on a DVD and stick it in the drive, the Xbox 360 will automatically recognize what is going on and install it. This technique also works with USB drives.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if something similar wasn't available for your Blu-ray player.


You're talking about firmware updates, I'm talking about applications. They are two very different things.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Could Microsoft's TV Guide in Media Center be used with RVU instead of using DTV's interface?


RVU requires you to use your provider's interface, so DirecTV's interface will always be used with DirecTV's service. It doesn't matter what the client is, whether it's an STB or an app on a PC or smartphone.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Sorry I thought Microsoft could turn their guide into an RVU App but I forgot about the RVU creating a pixel accurate representation of DTV's interface on client devices. Also me asking if Microsoft turning their guide into an RVU App would be me asking again if RVU would be built into Windows and in this thread they have said that won't happen. Also Microsoft's Guide as an RVU App would mean their guide wouldn't work with any other TV provider and Microsoft wouldn't do that.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerCSM said:


> Sorry I thought Microsoft could turn their guide into an RVU App but I forgot about the RVU creating a pixel accurate representation of DTV's interface on client devices.


While the associated client devices may support apps at some other level, it is unlikely that they will be available when you're in an RVU session. RVU is a portal to your RVU server and what you see is created uniquely by the server.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> You're talking about firmware updates, I'm talking about applications. They are two very different things.


Indeed.

I was thinking more along the lines of CraigerCSM where he seemed to be talking about installing RVU itself as an application from a DVD (since RVU itself probably doesn't support "apps").

I assumed that there were hard drive installable titles available for the Xbox. My bad.

As you've made it abundantly clear, RVU is not the answer to the question of a customizable interface (although it could easily support "skins" if the programming provider saw a profit in it). RVU is the answer to a unified interface regardless of what the user wants or needs.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> I assumed that there were hard drive installable titles available for the Xbox. My bad.


Xbox 360 can cache game data on the hard drive off the DVD, which is referred to as "installation" even though the DVD is still required. Other than that, any games that are actually installed on the hard drive come from Xbox Live.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Xbox 360 can cache game data on the hard drive off the DVD, which is referred to as "installation" even though the DVD is still required. Other than that, any games that are actually installed on the hard drive come from Xbox Live.


One other way would be to use the PS3's web browser to download an RVU App. Allthough the PS3's web browser thinks its Internet Explorer 6.0. Their are rumors of the PS3 gettting a new webkit browser possibly Google Chrome or Firefox.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> One other way would be to use the PS3's web browser to download an RVU App.


The PS3's web browser can't be used to download apps.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> - Personal Comment
> 
> Blu-Ray, probably at CES you will see some
> 
> ...


Most of what we've been discussing is the client side of things connecting to a DIRECTV host.

From that viewpoint, I'm expecting Blue-ray players, game consoles, PCs, and TVs all be clients of the HR34. All of them should be able to display the DIRECTV content served from an HR34.

From the reverse angle, Samsung already has some ability to serve content from their BD players to their TVs via their network. Beyond that, I agree with Earl, that few other devices make sense to be RVU hosts/servers--unless RVU also includes the ability to do what media share does now: serve movies, photos, and music. (No reason why it shouldn't but that all depends upon how smart the clients are.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> One other way would be to use the PS3's web browser to download an RVU App. Allthough the PS3's web browser thinks its Internet Explorer 6.0. Their are rumors of the PS3 gettting a new webkit browser possibly Google Chrome or Firefox.


It wouldn't be the browser, but rather the other means of getting apps loaded into the PS3.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

A Game Console that "serves" Netflix or Vudu would make a potential RVU Server candidate. Granted there are other methods, but it's at least falls in the category when brainstorming.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> The PS3's web browser can't be used to download apps.


My bad about the current browser.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Tom Robertson said:


> It wouldn't be the browser, but rather the other means of getting apps loaded into the PS3.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Is that the same for the PC? I said in an earlier post if DTV did its own RVU App that maybe they could make it available for download on their site. It not downloading the RVU App from the web browser how else would you get an RVU App on a client device? I suggested putting on an DVD would that work?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Is that the same for the PC? I said in an earlier post if DTV did its own RVU App that maybe they could make it available for download on their site. It not downloading the RVU App from the web browser how else would you get an RVU App on a client device? I suggested putting on an DVD would that work?


As said before, I don't expect DIRECTV will be providing many RVU apps. Maybe one for the PC, maybe one for the Mac. But not if they already know of one being written by someone else.

Apps are just software. There are many ways to get software onto your PC or Mac, including internet via browser.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Tom Robertson said:


> As said before, I don't expect DIRECTV will be providing many RVU apps. Maybe one for the PC, maybe one for the Mac. But not if they already know of one being written by someone else.
> 
> Apps are just software. There are many ways to get software onto your PC or Mac, including internet via browser.
> 
> ...


Cool. I just thought Apps were different than software for some reason. I guess because they are mostly on Smart Phones and Tablets.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Cool. I just thought Apps were different than software for some reason. I guess because they are mostly on Smart Phones and Tablets.


App is just short for application. It's an incredibly broad term.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> App is just short for application. It's an incredibly broad term.


Unless you talk to someone at Apple :lol:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> Unless you talk to someone at Apple :lol:


True. Luckily, it doesn't appear the courts agree with them.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

I wonder how double play would be implemented in a whole home scenario.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

raott said:


> I wonder how double play would be implemented in a whole home scenario.


It's probably unavailable on RVU clients.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> As said before, I don't expect DIRECTV will be providing many RVU apps. Maybe one for the PC, maybe one for the Mac. But not if they already know of one being written by someone else.
> 
> Apps are just software. There are many ways to get software onto your PC or Mac, including internet via browser.
> 
> ...


I haven't followed this at all so with that said. Why would DIRECTV have to create one for a game box. Why couldn't Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo create their own? If RVU is setup how I thought it was wouldn't a generic app just allow the server to tell it what to display?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> It's probably unavailable on RVU clients.


For all intent and purposes it could load a second tuner and just have a buffer going on the server it could access. I don't see a reason why it couldn't work other than them just not putting it in.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> For all intent and purposes it could load a second tuner and just have a buffer going on the server it could access. I don't see a reason why it couldn't work other than them just not putting it in.


Absolutely, there's no technical reason why it can't be done. My thinking is just that with two RVU clients running DoublePlay, you'd only have one tuner available. And I don't think DirecTV wants to allow that situation to happen. DoublePlay, just like PIP (which does have a technical reason for not being on clients, so it's a little different) will probably be restricted to the TV connected to the HR34.

We know that they'll allow a maximum of three RVU clients. So that would mean a maximum of three tuners in use remotely, leaving two left over for the HR34's TV. Very convenient.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> I haven't followed this at all so with that said. Why would DIRECTV have to create one for a game box. Why couldn't Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo create their own? If RVU is setup how I thought it was wouldn't a generic app just allow the server to tell it what to display?


Exactly, that was my point entirely. In a house of RVU devices, server, client, and hybrid that do both, DIRECTV won't be supplying the RVU server or client software to anything but DIRECTV hardware.

So sounds like you have a good grasp on the RVU situation. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> ...
> We know that they'll allow a maximum of three RVU clients. So that would mean a maximum of three tuners in use remotely, leaving two left over for the HR34's TV. Very convenient.


I thought the actual numbers for the HR34 were to support up to five active RVU clients plus three MRV streams?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> I thought the actual numbers for the HR34 were to support up to five RVU clients plus three MRV streams?


Hard to tell on equipment that hasn't been released yet. (And there might need to be a key word in your description: "active" as in active RVU clients "and/or" active MRV clients.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Absolutely, there's no technical reason why it can't be done. My thinking is just that with two RVU clients running DoublePlay, you'd only have one tuner available. And I don't think DirecTV wants to allow that situation to happen. DoublePlay, just like PIP (which does have a technical reason for not being on clients, so it's a little different) will probably be restricted to the TV connected to the HR34.
> 
> We know that they'll allow a maximum of three RVU clients. So that would mean a maximum of three tuners in use remotely, leaving two left over for the HR34's TV. Very convenient.


There's no technical reason an RVU client couldn't be built that recreated a PIP or Doubleplay scenario. As far as any server is concerned, a port or IP/port combination is a unique client. So, if DirecTV allowed it, a single client box could request 2 separate RVU streams. Bam... two TV streams and PIP we have. If DirecTV didn't allow it, all the client would have to do is generate a second MAC address and request a second IP address (either physical or virtual) and DirecTV would have no idea it was for a single client. Then the client would render and be responsible for creating the PIP - but the source would all be a single HR34.

So... lots of ways to do it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

BudShark said:


> There's no technical reason an RVU client couldn't be built that recreated a PIP or Doubleplay scenario. As far as any server is concerned, a port or IP/port combination is a unique client. So, if DirecTV allowed it, a single client box could request 2 separate RVU streams. Bam... two TV streams and PIP we have. If DirecTV didn't allow it, all the client would have to do is generate a second MAC address and request a second IP address (either physical or virtual) and DirecTV would have no idea it was for a single client. Then the client would render and be responsible for creating the PIP - but the source would all be a single HR34.
> 
> So... lots of ways to do it.


True... but...

Something would have to decode/decrypt two MPEG4 streams and then merge them into the final video output.

Not a "technical problem", just needs the hardware (and associated cost.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> Hard to tell on equipment that hasn't been released yet. (And there might need to be a key word in your description: "active" as in active RVU clients "and/or" active MRV clients.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Correct;

Edited my previous post to add the term "active" for RVU clients, but not for "MRV clients" since I never said that, but "MRV streams."


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

BTW, was thinking that although the HR34 is able to share with up to three other "active"  MRV clients, any RVU clients connected to the HR34 would likely not be able to so. But are only able to stream live programs from the HR34's tuners or recorded programs on it's HDD.

That is to say that only TVs connected to the HR34 my see and access programs on the UPL, while those connected to RVU clients may view only live and recorded programming from the HR34.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> BTW, was thinking that although the HR34 is able to share with up to three other "active"  MRV clients, any RVU clients connected to the HR34 would likely not be able to so. But are only able to stream live programs from the HR34's tuners or recorded programs on it's HDD.
> 
> That is to say that only TVs connected to the HR34 my see and access programs on the UPL, while those connected to RVU clients may view only live and recorded programming from the HR34.


I hear what you are saying, I just doubt it/hope not....

I suspect that for uniformity, the hr34 can "pass" along a MRV stream from another server to any rvu clients.

What I really wonder is if a C30 will be able to access a non-rvu but mrv only server and play from its playlist directly. I doubt it, I have a feeling it will have to be passed through the hr34 as would any streams to any non directv created rvu client only devices, like the samsung tv's...

With RVU, the client is simply displaying what the server tells it to, and if the server can see a mrv feed from a non rvu server, then there is no reason to think that a rvu only client wont be able to play programs from it, just a matter of how its done, and if the c30 can shortcut the rvu sever. Again, I doubt that for uniformity purposes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I'd imagine there several reasons that you can't use an RVU client with a non-RVU server. Rendering the menu and OSD bitmaps is likely chief among them.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Something would have to decode/decrypt two MPEG4 streams and then merge them into the final video output.
> 
> Not a "technical problem", just needs the hardware (and associated cost.)


Good thing I never used the word "problem."


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Good thing I never used the word "problem."


You two were right, though a clarification might be helpful to others.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

The other night, I thought I saw the HR34 on TV... then I realized it looked completely different than what we think the HR34 looks like, so I must have seen the HR25... :grin:

~Alan


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

David Ortiz said:


> I noticed a new manual on directv.com covering SD, HD and Home Media Center HD DVRs. Link: http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DTV_HD_DVR_ComboGuide.pdf
> 
> The manual on page 30 details the PIP feature of the HR34, showing PIP as part of the new info banner. On page 81, the HR34 is referenced as a compatible receiver for Whole-Home DVR service, with further details and capabilities listed on page 87. Finally the back panel is shown on page 152.


I noticed the revision originally cited version 3.6 060311 had HR34 or Home Media Center mentions/photos.

If you use the originally provided link, There is a newer version 3.7 071111 and all of the information for the HR34 Home Media center has been deleted/removed....


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

lzhj9k said:


> If you use the originally provided link, There is a newer version 3.7 071111 and all of the information for the HR34 Home Media center has been deleted/removed....


Obviously the project has been cancelled. Oh well.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

They still didn't correct the error on P.27 (talking about Last 5, but screen shot is of Audio/Video).


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Was also hoping to see an Android App discussed along with the iPad App.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Q: How do HR34 playback work? Will the







show up if the HR34 is already playing back a show? If not, why can't this technology be ported to the current HRs?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> If not, why can't this technology be ported to the current HRs?


Quite probably a simple lack of horsepower or chipset functionality (perhaps the HR2x can only encrypt/recrypt one stream at a time).


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the HR34 never saw the light of day. Anyone remember the HMC that was all the rage at the DirecTV CES booth a number of years ago. Same excitement generated here in the forums. All kinds of discussion of how great it was going to be, yadayadayada...and poof...never mind. I warned you all when all this HR34 hype started to remember the HMC. Sorry, I'm once bitten twice shy.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mjwagner said:


> It wouldn't surprise me at all if the HR34 never saw the light of day.


In the beginning it wouldn't have surprised me. But now, I'd be pretty surprised. DirecTV essentially helped to create a new standard around the HR34 (RVU), there are units being field tested, and we've seen the manual. It's pretty far along.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mjwagner said:


> It wouldn't surprise me at all if the HR34 never saw the light of day. Anyone remember the HMC that was all the rage at the DirecTV CES booth a number of years ago. Same excitement generated here in the forums. All kinds of discussion of how great it was going to be, yadayadayada...and poof...never mind. I warned you all when all this HR34 hype started to remember the HMC. Sorry, I'm once bitten twice shy.


While I suspect the amount of hype by DBStalk'ers is similar, the amount of discussion from DIRECTV seems different. Key among the differences is that DIRECTV has mentioned it in their investor conference calls. I don't think DIRECTV did that for the original HMC unit.

I'm pretty sure that something akin to the unit seen at CES this year will see the light of day and in customers hands.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> While I suspect the amount of hype by DBStalk'ers is similar, the amount of discussion from DIRECTV seems different. Key among the differences is that DIRECTV has mentioned it in their investor conference calls. I don't think DIRECTV did that for the original HMC unit.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that something akin to the unit seen at CES this year will see the light of day and in customers hands.
> 
> ...


I'll be happy as a clam if you are right. I'm just not gonna hold my breath or even get excited about it. Going thru that with the HMC was quite enough for me thank you. And if I am not mistaken I believe that their was at least some documentation, and mock-ups at their CES booth that came directly from DirecTV on the HMC so it was not just talk or speculation....so from my perspective DirecTV has a bit of a credibility problem with the stuff they show/announce at CES.

I find that some of the folks here have surprisingly short and/or selective memories about how we were all disappointed by what DirecTV did around HMC.


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> In the beginning it wouldn't have surprised me. But now, I'd be pretty surprised. DirecTV essentially helped to create a new standard around the HR34 (RVU), there are units being field tested, and we've seen the manual. It's pretty far along.


Are you talking about the stuff in the manual that is no longer their in the most current release?...yeah that convinces me that it is real...this time...


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mjwagner said:


> I'll be happy as a clam if you are right. I'm just not gonna hold my breath or even get excited about it. Going thru that with the HMC was quite enough for me thank you. And if I am not mistaken I believe that their was at least some documentation, and mock-ups at their CES booth that came directly from DirecTV on the HMC so it was not just talk or speculation....so from my perspective DirecTV has a bit of a credibility problem with the stuff they show/announce at CES.
> 
> I find that some of the folks here have surprisingly short and/or selective memories about how we were all disappointed by what DirecTV did around HMC.


Understand your point of view. I hope you'll be happy in a few months (assuming October holds true.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

mjwagner said:


> I'll be happy as a clam if you are right. I'm just not gonna hold my breath or even get excited about it. Going thru that with the HMC was quite enough for me thank you. And if I am not mistaken I believe that their was at least some documentation, and mock-ups at their CES booth that came directly from DirecTV on the HMC so it was not just talk or speculation....so from my perspective DirecTV has a bit of a credibility problem with the stuff they show/announce at CES.
> 
> I find that some of the folks here have surprisingly short and/or selective memories about how we were all disappointed by what DirecTV did around HMC.


Just for clarity, since the upcoming HR34 is also called a "HMC," are you referring to the long canceled HDCP-20 by "HMC" in your post?

http://www.gadgetreview.com/2008/12/directv-officially-cancels-the-hdcp-20.html


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> Just for clarity, since the upcoming HR34 is also called a "HMC," are you referring to the long canceled HDCP-20 by "HMC" in your post?
> 
> http://www.gadgetreview.com/2008/12/directv-officially-cancels-the-hdcp-20.html


I think he's referring to the longer canceled HMC that was shown at CES 2005(?).

We're expecting this unit to be the HR34, once also known as an HMC.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Just for clarity, since the upcoming HR34 is also called a "HMC," are you referring to the long canceled HDCP-20 by "HMC" in your post?


I'm sure he's referring to the original HMC, which never had another model designation (that we were aware of).


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> Just for clarity, since the upcoming HR34 is also called a "HMC," are you referring to the long canceled HDCP-20 by "HMC" in your post?
> 
> http://www.gadgetreview.com/2008/12/directv-officially-cancels-the-hdcp-20.html


The "original" HMC (I don't recall another model designation but I could be wrong) that was shown and talked about by DirecTV at the 2004 or 2005, I can't remember exactly what year, CES. They showed it in their booth along with connection diagrams, specs, etc. It caused quite a stir there and here at the time.


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

It was in fact at the 2005 CES. If you do a net search for "2005 CES Directv HMC" you will see many links to various fora discussions on the subject. Here is a short article describing Ucentrics role in DirecTV's long cancelled and apparently forgotten HMC:

http://www.cedmagazine.com/ucentric-hooks-up-directv-media.aspx


----------



## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

I don't think Samsung would have been convinced to add RVU capability to two high end televisions and show them with the HR34 in their booth at CES if they weren't convinced it was going to happen in 2011-2012.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

mjwagner said:


> It was in fact at the 2005 CES. If you do a net search for "2005 CES Directv HMC" you will see many links to various fora discussions on the subject. Here is a short article describing Ucentrics role in DirecTV's long cancelled and apparently forgotten HMC:
> 
> http://www.cedmagazine.com/ucentric-hooks-up-directv-media.aspx


The relationship with Ucentric didn't last long, as it was barely a few days later that they were bought by Motorola. I think that had something to do with it.


----------



## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

well back in 07 when my family got directv my dad was told about a technology that sounds very similar to RVU. basically my dad was told that he may not need a Directv receiver for his yv depending on the tv capabilities. I don't know if the installer was refering to the tv's that had an sd receiver built in or if the installer was referring to an RVU technology.


----------



## dwl2 (Jul 12, 2011)

Tom Robertson said:


> Understand your point of view. I hope you'll be happy in a few months (assuming October holds true.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


What are we looking for in October? An official announcement concerning the features of the Hr34?

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dwl2 said:


> What are we looking for in October?


According to a press release back in May:


HR34 Testing said:


> The launch of field trial testing for DIRECTV's model HR34 RVU-enabled server, the heart of the DIRECTV Home Media Center, marks a major milestone both for the RVU technology and the new DIRECTV platform, which the company plans to begin rolling out nationwide to customers in October 2011.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As I believe you have pointed out, forward-facing statements are not always accurate.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> This would be my suspicion.
> 
> Though I could be wrong ....., another suspicion of mine is that this thing will be CRAZY popular and in high demand (ala WHDVR). My hope is that Pace (possibly LG too?!?!?!) will be cranking these babies out BIG TIME...


I would hope DirecTV learned their lesson with the WHDVR rollout. There will be some pent up demand for this. I for one will be all over this as I now have 2 HR's on my main TV because 2 tuners is not enough.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> I would hope DirecTV learned their lesson with the WHDVR rollout. There will be some pent up demand for this. I for one will be all over this as I now have 2 HR's on my main TV because 2 tuners is not enough.


I'm right there with you. I really want this HR34.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I'm right there with you. I really want this HR34.


Same here. Replace two DVRs with one and an extra tuner? One to do list. Absolutely. As long as the reports are right and it won't have a 50 series limit. If it does, it's a no go from the start. Hoping for more than 100.


----------



## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

I currently feed 2 HR24s to my Samsung D8000. Even with MRV series management and todo lists are cumbersome. Id love a chance to play with a single HR34 and maybe eventually RVU.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I wonder if they will have a limit as to how many can be on one account, at least at first... That's one of my concerns...


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Same here. Replace two DVRs with one and an extra tuner? One to do list. Absolutely. As long as the reports are right and it won't have a 50 series limit. If it does, it's a no go from the start. Hoping for more than 100.


I don't mind the 50 limit, but understand some need more.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Herdfan said:


> I would hope DirecTV learned their lesson with the WHDVR rollout. There will be some pent up demand for this. I for one will be all over this as I now have 2 HR's on my main TV because 2 tuners is not enough.


Yep... I realize there may be some people who might disagree given that the unit will most likely be more expensive than stand-alone units (HR2x), but I expect it to be VERY popular nonetheless.

~Alan


----------



## LoweBoy (Sep 16, 2006)

If this baby has MRV capabilities I am in!!! My plan is to buy additional TVs and have a heck of a football paradise!


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

inkahauts said:


> I wonder if they will have a limit as to how many can be on one account, at least at first... That's one of my concerns...


Why? They probably have a premium price.

I only wonder how a pair will work together? Will they have the same issues that multi-DVRs customers have now -- the lack of network features?

And I don't want to hear the dumb line that multi-HR34s customers are not expected to happen. Or that there will be so few, that they don't matter.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Herdfan said:


> I would hope DirecTV learned their lesson with the WHDVR rollout. There will be some pent up demand for this. I for one will be all over this as I now have 2 HR's on my main TV because 2 tuners is not enough.


Not really a big thing for me, especially if MRV Network Features are still lacking. I'll wait for a promotion.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LoweBoy said:


> If this baby has MRV capabilities I am in!!!


That's kind of the point.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> That's kind of the point.


Maybe he thought it would be multi-PIP?


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## LoweBoy (Sep 16, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> That's kind of the point.


Ment WH capabilities! Too Damn many acronyms to keep up with.


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## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

The thing they showed back in 2005 (or 2004, whichever year it was) was a completely fake demo run on a bunch of PCs. The project never ran on actual hardware.

This is entirely different from that and should not tarred with the same brush.

That said, it's pretty amazing that it's taken this long to get a true multi-tuner box out with thin clients (well, it's not out yet). The technology is just not that hard so we can be hopeful, at least, that based on how well WHDVR works (pretty well in my experience), this will work pretty well from the get go.


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

markrogo said:


> The thing they showed back in 2005 (or 2004, whichever year it was) was a completely fake demo run on a bunch of PCs. The project never ran on actual hardware.
> 
> This is entirely different from that and should not tarred with the same brush.
> 
> That said, it's pretty amazing that it's taken this long to get a true multi-tuner box out with thin clients (well, it's not out yet). The technology is just not that hard so we can be hopeful, at least, that based on how well WHDVR works (pretty well in my experience), this will work pretty well from the get go.


It was 2005 (see my post below) and as a member who was here back then I can tell you that what it was supposed to do, and the excitement and endless chatter it produced here on this forum, are eerily similar.

I am not claiming it is exactly the same thing but as someone who was here at the time, excited then, and disappointed, I am just hoping that history is not repeating itself. DirecTV simply does not have a good track record in this regard.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LoweBoy said:


> Ment WH capabilities! Too Damn many acronyms to keep up with.


WHDVR and MRV are the same thing.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> WHDVR and MRV are the same thing.


While DIRECTV calls their MRV solution "Whole Home DVR", it doesn't meet the standard set by the telcos.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

markrogo said:


> This is entirely different from that and should not tarred with the same brush.


In functional terms, how does the HR34 differ from the HMC of 2005?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> While DIRECTV calls their MRV solution "Whole Home DVR", it doesn't meet the standard set by the telcos.


While I astonishingly do agree, I was referring to DirecTV's WHDVR.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> WHDVR and MRV are the same thing.


I think what LoweBoy is referring to is if the HR34 will communicate with the current receivers over WHDVR (MRV) in addition to his main function as an RVU server.

Now the initial Comboguide containing info. on the HR34 posted earlier in this thread and quickly taken down by DIRECTV mentioned up to three simultaneous MRV streams, but who knows (except the field testers of course) ....


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I think what LoweBoy is referring to is if the HR34 will communicate with the current receivers over WHDVR (MRV) in addition to his main function as an RVU server.


Of course it will. Aside from the PDF that you mentioned, it's just common sense. The software already exists, it would be pointless not to include it.


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Of course it will. Aside from the PDF that you mentioned, it's just common sense. The software already exists, it would be pointless not to include it.


Of course the software existed to allow our DirecTiVo's to do the same thing way back in 2003. How did that work out for us? :nono:


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Of course the software existed to allow our DirecTiVo's to do the same thing way back in 2003. How did that work out for us? :nono:


That was Tivo's software, not DirecTV's. Tivo could have demanded more money, DirecTV may not have liked the fact that it was copying vs. streaming. We just don't know. What we do know is that DirecTV has MRV implemented on their own boxes, and the HR34 is just another one of their own boxes. Zero reason to believe it won't also have MRV.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

harsh said:


> While DIRECTV calls their MRV solution "Whole Home DVR", it doesn't meet the standard set by the telcos.


Whole Home DVR sounds more like a single DVR working a home. While Multi-Room Video is more vague on on its equipment. In my case - three DVRs.


----------



## LoweBoy (Sep 16, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I think what LoweBoy is referring to is if the HR34 will communicate with the current receivers over WHDVR (MRV) in addition to his main function as an RVU server.
> 
> Now the initial Comboguide containing info. on the HR34 posted earlier in this thread and quickly taken down by DIRECTV mentioned up to three simultaneous MRV streams, but who knows (except the field testers of course) ....


Exactly what I ment!!! Not worth it if it can't work with my existing setup. My main hr20-700 is slower than molases in the winter time. And just waiting to see what options are out there to replace.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Why? They probably have a premium price.
> 
> I only wonder how a pair will work together? Will they have the same issues that multi-DVRs customers have now -- the lack of network features?
> 
> And I don't want to hear the dumb line that multi-HR34s customers are not expected to happen. Or that there will be so few, that they don't matter.


Which lack of network features a are you talking about?

There are some logistics to having multiple hr34s in a system. For example, if you want two of them, the install will require an swim16 no matter what. No way around it. That's a lot of hardware that will be required, (lnbs and switches will have to be replaced) and who knows if directv will have that on hand in the beginning.

You also must wonder if Directv wants to roll this out slow, and limit to one a house till they have more than one manufacturer and supply coming in, as they have done with other products in the past, as recently as the h25 when it launched. That unit was not available to existing customers when it first hit at all. Long term, I see no reason to limit, but in the short term, I can see them having restrictions on them.

I see a lot of people wanting two of them.. Put one each on their main two tv's, and then clients everywhere else is something that I expect a lot of people to ask for. I look at devices, not tuners when wondering how many people will want these, and when you tell people they have PIP, anyone who wants PIP will only want these on their main tv's. I have a feeling Directv will once again under order and these will be in high demand and difficult to keep in stock for quite a while. Of course, if they avoid advertising it till they have stock, that will help them.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> While DIRECTV calls their MRV solution "Whole Home DVR", it doesn't meet the standard set by the telcos.


What standard is this you speak of? What standard have they set? Only allowing ONE DVR and between 2 and 3, if your lucky, streams in HD at once, for the WHOLE HOUSE?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> What standard is this you speak of? What standard have they set? Only allowing ONE DVR and between 2 and 3, if your lucky, streams in HD at once, for the WHOLE HOUSE?


Plus full DVR control of live TV on the clients.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

So you are saying that since they don't allow you to pause live tv on a client only device, it doesn't meet the whole home definition because other companies can do that? 

How about the fact that other companies can't have more than one dvr in a house at a time when a whole home system is being used? No one else matches that standard, so obviously no one else makes a real whole home dvr either.

Whole home dvr means to me that you can access the dvr anywhere in the house. Same as MRV. Guess what, they all do that if one does it, so they are all whole home dvrs.

Other stuff can't define whole home dvr, because if other features define it as such, no provider could have it since no one provider right now has all of everyone's whole home dvr features. I am not even sure if directv hr34 will have every feature that everyone else has.

To me stating that directv doesn't have a whole home dvr is like saying that no one has a dvr because they don't have all the features that replaytv had on their dvrs. Its just silly. You must define it by the minimalistic basic feature set, and that is a dvr accessible at all other tvs in the house when used with a client.


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## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> In functional terms, how does the HR34 differ from the HMC of 2005?


The HR34 is DirecTV hardware, being field tested. It's an extension of the technology in the DVR in your house.

The HMC showed at CES was a demo, built on PCs. It was not real.

The functionality was very, very similar. One was 10 parts Wizard of Oz, 1 part reality. The current one is, by all insider account, 9 parts reality, waiting on the 10th.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Whole home dvr means to me that you can access the dvr anywhere in the house. Same as MRV. Guess what, they all do that if one does it, so they are all whole home dvrs.


I think my issue with DirecTV's current implementation and calling it "Whole Home DVR" is that you can only access 1 recording at a time from a remote location. So it really can't be considered "Whole Home". Looks like the HR34 will change that.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> So you are saying that since they don't allow you to pause live tv on a client only device, it doesn't meet the whole home definition because other companies can do that?


"Whole-Home DVR" is a marketing term, not a technical specification. It can be interpreted however you wish. Personally, I think "Whole-Home DVR" means making DVR features, including Live TV trick play, available on client devices. So every TV feels like it has a DVR connected to it.

Simply making recordings available to client devices doesn't feel like "Whole-Home DVR" to me.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Pace Completes Certification of Industry's First RVU Compliant Client Solution: http://www.pace.com/universal/news-...-certification-rvu-compliant-client-solution/​


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> "Whole-Home DVR" is a marketing term,
> 
> Simply making recordings available to client devices doesn't feel like "Whole-Home DVR" to me.


And as much as I like DirecTV, their marketing team really pushes the envelope.

No, it feels more like Multi-Room Viewing.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

can't w8 to get the 34, so then i go from 2 dvrs > 1, my Sammy UN55D6400 has RVU built-in, allegedly..........


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

texasmoose said:


> can't w8 to get the 34, so then i go from 2 dvrs > 1, my Sammy UN55D6400 has RVU built-in, allegedly..........


I hear ya! We're all just waiting for some news for DirecTV, Samsung, and/or the RVU gods. I'm hoping RVU, the HR34, and my PN59D8000 might let me get rid off my HR in the bedroom, without losing any storage space or functionality. I'm a light sleeper and really want to get rid of the HD spinning sound that's on pretty much every HR.

We'll see; that's alot of factors to have to come together.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

I'll probably replace two of my HR21 with a HR34, but not all three.


----------



## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> I'll probably replace two of my HR21 with a HR34, but not all three.


I fully intend to do something similar. We have 4 HR2x units total, one of which honestly never records anything. When the smoke clears, I expect to have:

1 HR34
1 HR24
1 thin client

I'm sure a lot of people will mess around with similar configurations and see how many/few DVRs they need/want. The lack of live TV trick play on thin clients will annoy people to some extent, for example. And since you allegedly won't be able to hit record from there, that could be an odd dealbreaker for some. iOS/Android clients that allow one to overcome some limitations in that regard become more interesting.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

markrogo said:


> The lack of live TV trick play on thin clients will annoy people to some extent, for example. And since you allegedly won't be able to hit record from there, that could be an odd dealbreaker for some.


Umm, what? The RVU clients will have trick play and record capabilities.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Wasn't there talk at one point that you wouldn't be able to have an HR34 and another DVR?

Or was that the HMC?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Wasn't there talk at one point that you wouldn't be able to have an HR34 and another DVR?
> 
> Or was that the HMC?


I don't think we ever knew enough about the HMC for that kind of talk to hold water, and that's certainly not true about the HR34.


----------



## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> Wasn't there talk at one point that you wouldn't be able to have an HR34 and another DVR?
> 
> Or was that the HMC?


I think there was some talk about at least at first that the HR34 was not going to work with other DRV's in MVR.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> I think there was some talk about at least at first that the HR34 was not going to work with other DRV's in MVR.


It was idle speculation, and was never supported by facts. It didn't even make sense.


----------



## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

I know details aren't out yet, but help me to understand by summarizing what we know or suppose about:

The HR34 working alongside other HRs in the house, would there be Whole Home/MRV networking among all the HRs? Compatible? Incompatible? 

HD Space and Tuner wise, how does the HR34 compare to the HR24?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> It was idle speculation, and was never supported by facts. It didn't even make sense.


What tangible evidence is there to support that the HR34 will indeed participate in WHDS?


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

itzme said:


> I know details aren't out yet, but help me to understand by summarizing what we know or suppose about:
> 
> The HR34 working alongside other HRs in the house, would there be Whole Home/MRV networking among all the HRs? Compatible? Incompatible? ...


If the User Guide information posted to start this thread which DIRECTV abruptly took down is accurate, the HR34 will support up to 3 simultaneous MRV streams and 5 RVU ones (assuming one active RVU client per each of its five satellite tuners)



> ... HD Space and Tuner wise, how does the HR34 compare to the HR24?


From what is known so far about the HR34;

HR34 HDD = 1 TB
HR24 HDD 500 GB
------------------
HR34 sat. tuners = 5
HR24 sat tuners = 2


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

harsh said:


> What tangible evidence is there to support that the HR34 will indeed participate in WHDS?


Beyond logical inference, it was stated in the original User Guide posted at the start of this thread before DIRECTV removed it;

P. 87;



> ... When connected to HD receivers as the hub of your Whole-Home DVR
> experience, your HMC HD DVR will allow you to stream recordings to 3 separate
> rooms, rather than only 1 when using a standard DIRECTV Plus HD DVR. ...


----------



## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Umm, what? The RVU clients will have trick play and record capabilities.


There have been posts that you won't be able to pause live TV or schedule recordings on the thin clients. If that's wrong, then great. Makes no difference to me, but would benefit other people.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

markrogo said:


> There have been posts that you won't be able to pause live TV or schedule recordings on the thin clients. If that's wrong, then great. Makes no difference to me, but would benefit other people.


I haven't seen these posts. If such things were posted, they were incorrect.


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

harsh said:


> What tangible evidence is there to support that the HR34 will indeed participate in WHDS?


IDK, maybe the 2nd picture in post #3.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Beyond logical inference, it was stated in the original User Guide posted at the start of this thread before DIRECTV removed it;


It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could record three channels at once.

Logical inference dictated that the HR2x series would eventually scan for OTA channels.

Neither of these relatively important features has come to pass.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

harsh said:


> It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could record three channels at once.
> 
> You asked for what tangible evidence there was for the HR34's support of WHDVR service, and I gave you what was know so far beyond logical inference outside of being an actual field tester of course.
> 
> ...


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

harsh said:


> It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could *record three channels at once*.
> 
> Logical inference dictated that the HR2x series would eventually scan for OTA channels.
> 
> Neither of these relatively important features has come to pass.


I would assume the third tuner would be associated with its OTA add-on equipment.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> I would assume the third tuner would be associated with its OTA add-on equipment.


The HR20 did/does not have OTA add-on equipment. Its tuners were built-in.


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

harsh said:


> It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could record three channels at once.
> 
> Neither of these relatively important features has come to pass.


It sure can!!!!!

I can record 2 Satellite channels and 1 VOD channel at any one time. No matter how bad you might be at math, that totals 3.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could record three channels at once.


I wonder if there are any DirecTV customers who keep such detailed logs of the failings of Dish.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> It was clearly stated in the original HR20 user guide (page 19) that the HR20 could record three channels at once.
> 
> Logical inference dictated that the HR2x series would eventually scan for OTA channels.
> 
> Neither of these relatively important features has come to pass.


Bringing this up at this point seems irrelevant. It was a typo. Believe me, they happen. It was not indicative of a future development.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Bringing this up at this point seems irrelevant. It was a typo. Believe me, they happen. It was not indicative of a future development.


That's why it was smart for DirecTV to send the HR21 field testers a pre-release copy of the manual. :lol:


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Herdfan said:


> It sure can!!!!!
> 
> I can record 2 Satellite channels and 1 VOD channel at any one time. No matter how bad you might be at math, that totals 3.


That would put the third tuner off-site.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> That would put the third tuner off-site.


If you want to be technical (or correct, really) about it, there is no tuner involved anywhere.


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> That would put the third tuner off-site.


His comment made no reference to Tuners, only # of channels you can record. Yes it is being picky, but given how picky he can be, I thought it appropriate.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> I would assume the third tuner would be associated with its OTA add-on equipment.


What do you consider OTA add-on equipment on the HR20?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Bringing this up at this point seems irrelevant. It was a typo. Believe me, they happen. It was not indicative of a future development.


I'd buy that it was a typo if the number had been a digit, but intending "two" and typing "three" is a pretty sophisticated typographical error. I'm betting that at the time the manual was outlined, three programs may have been a possibility; what with the competition's similarly underpinned HD DVR eventually enabled to do it. By then, DIRECTV was going full out for cost reduction and the OTA tuner was moved out to USB land.

The point of using the HR20 manual as an argument was that appearance of a feature in pre-release (or early release) documentation does not guarantee that a feature will be available at release or even much later. That's as true today as it was five (5) years ago.

My examples in no way prove that MRV won't come with the initial release, simply that a "lost iPhone" is not a definitive indicator of what the coming model will look or run like.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Demonstration of First RVU Certified Product at IBC 2011 Showcases Remote User Interface Technology http://investor.directv.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=603673

"The C30 thin client will be used with DIRECTV's HR34 RVU server which will be launched in October 2011."​


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It seems like a technology that has only one certified client implementation is going to have to hurry to be released within a couple of months. Certification of a server would seem an imperative.

Samsung's continued silence on the issue of RVU is not helping.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> It seems like a technology that has only one certified client implementation is going to have to hurry to be released within a couple of months. Certification of a server would seem an imperative.
> 
> Samsung's continued silence on the issue of RVU is not helping.


What are you talking about? What do you mean they are going to have to hurry. Things like this almost always start with one working piece of equipment, then expand from there.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

"harsh" said:


> It seems like a technology that has only one certified client implementation is going to have to hurry to be released within a couple of months. Certification of a server would seem an imperative.
> 
> Samsung's continued silence on the issue of RVU is not helping.


Totally lost on what you mean here....

Saying its bad theres only 1 branded client thats certified so far is bad or something else?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

For a technology that, as the RVU Alliance is repeatedly reminding us, is a "publicly available standard" (documentation available for a tidy sum), it seems odd that only one company (Pace) has produced a certified client just weeks before the consumer availability of the technology is to commence.

All RVU devices must be certified by the University of New Hampshire's InterOperability Laboratory. If DIRECTV didn't feel the need to put the RVU logo and certification compliance mark on the HR34, they could get away without certification but it wouldn't instill confidence in the Alliance (and the associated process) to do so, would it?

According to the IOL FAQ, client testing takes about a week. Their FAQ doesn't speak to server testing at this time and many of the links are broken.

http://www.iol.unh.edu/services/testing/rvu/

What I'm suggesting is that one client certification and no documented server certifications isn't a good sign for a technology that is slated for partial roll-out next month.

RVU _needs_ to be a widely adopted standard or it won't achieve the economies of scale necessary to make it economically feasible to implement in TVs and other third party devices.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> RVU _needs_ to be a widely adopted standard or it won't achieve the economies of scale necessary to make it economically feasible to implement in TVs and other third party devices.


I believe the chances of RVU taking off outside of DirecTV's ecosystem are slim. And I think that's a very good thing. I don't want to see RVU become the standard for universal video distribution, because it requires you to stick with your provider's GUI.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> For a technology that, as the RVU Alliance is repeatedly reminding us, is a "publicly available standard" (documentation available for a tidy sum), it seems odd that only one company (Pace) has produced a certified client just weeks before the consumer availability of the technology is to commence.
> 
> All RVU devices must be certified by the University of New Hampshire's InterOperability Laboratory. If DIRECTV didn't feel the need to put the RVU logo and certification compliance mark on the HR34, they could get away without certification but it wouldn't instill confidence in the Alliance (and the associated process) to do so, would it?
> 
> ...


!rolling


----------



## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> I believe the chances of RVU taking off outside of DirecTV's ecosystem are slim. And I think that's a very good thing. I don't want to see RVU become the standard for universal video distribution, because it requires you to stick with your provider's GUI.


well the fcc is trying to push all vid but with RVU live and working now. The cable systems may just try to say that RVU takes the place of the all vid plan.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> well the fcc is trying to push all vid but with RVU live and working now. The cable systems may just try to say that RVU takes the place of the all vid plan.


Yeah, that has been discussed. Hopefully the FCC stands firm, and realizes RVU doesn't meet the goals they set out.


----------



## mkdtv21 (May 27, 2007)

Will the C30 client be compatible with sdtv's?


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> For a technology that, as the RVU Alliance is repeatedly reminding us, is a "publicly available standard" (documentation available for a tidy sum), it seems odd that only one company (Pace) has produced a certified client just weeks before the consumer availability of the technology is to commence.
> 
> All RVU devices must be certified by the University of New Hampshire's InterOperability Laboratory. If DIRECTV didn't feel the need to put the RVU logo and certification compliance mark on the HR34, they could get away without certification but it wouldn't instill confidence in the Alliance (and the associated process) to do so, would it?
> 
> ...


I bet you poo-poo'ed HD when it was first introduced, didn't you? :nono2:


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mkdtv21 said:


> Will the C30 client be compatible with sdtv's?


That's an interesting question.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> !rolling


More thoughtful and articulate than your typical reply.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JoeTheDragon said:


> well the fcc is trying to push all vid but with RVU live and working now. The cable systems may just try to say that RVU takes the place of the all vid plan.


RVU lacks many key elements of a workable system for the cable and IPTV delivery models. The server requirement to generate and deliver graphics and text is enough to kill that idea.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

mkdtv21 said:


> Will the C30 client be compatible with sdtv's?


My logic sez no.


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

mkdtv21 said:


> Will the C30 client be compatible with sdtv's?


What do you mean by "compatible"? Assuming it has Composite Video outputs, then it should work just fine with an SDTV.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Drucifer" said:


> My logic sez no.


That will be interesting to find out.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

harsh said:


> RVU lacks many key elements of a workable system for the cable and IPTV delivery models. The server requirement to generate and deliver graphics and text is enough to kill that idea.


What does RVU which is essentially a remote UI server/client technology used inside the customer premises have to do with the CATV and IPTV delivery methods used by MSOs to bring programming to the premises?


----------



## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

Can't w8 to get my hands on a HR34, then i can dump my other 2 receivers. I have a 2011 Samsung UN55D6400, which allegedly is a RVU capable device.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I'm still curious to know how they're going to charge us for the 5 tuners. Per tuner after the first two, or per client box?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious to know how they're going to charge us for the 5 tuners. Per tuner after the first two, or per client box?


My guess is that the HR34 will have it's own special charge associated with it, there will not be any "per tuner" options. You get the HR34 with five active tuners, or you don't get the HR34.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> My guess is that the HR34 will have it's own special charge associated with it, there will not be any "per tuner" options. You get the HR34 with five active tuners, or you don't get the HR34.


This is what I'm thinking as well;

I hear a lot of people in this thread and others in anticipation of the HR34 looking to "dump" their current boxes. Well unless its purely for space saving reasons, I wouldn't look forward to any cost savings in replacing some or all of the current boxes with the HR34 and C30 clients.

DIRECTV is not about to produce a new system this way only to lose money by cutting into their current HD receiver pricing structure. :nono:

I expect the future price and monthly fee for the HR34 with C30 or other RVU capable clients to be at least as much if not likely more than the current H/HR2X system with WHDVR service in up front leasing cost and monthly fees.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

inkahauts said:


> That will be interesting to find out.


The box is supposed to be extremely small. I seriously doubt it will have SD outputs.


----------



## cwpomeroy (Aug 8, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> This is what I'm thinking as well;
> 
> I hear a lot of people in this thread and others in anticipation of the HR34 looking to "dump" their current boxes. Well unless its purely for space saving reasons, I wouldn't look forward to any cost savings in replacing some or all of the current boxes with the HR34 and C30 clients.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> The box is supposed to be extremely small. I seriously doubt it will have SD outputs.


Where did you hear that it will be extremely small? The prototypes that have been shown at CES certainly weren't.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Similar to press release earlier this week ... Today from Entropic ...

Entropic Communications Showcases RVU Alliance Remote User Interface Technology and DIRECTV's Multi-Room DVR Service At IBC2011:http://ir.entropic.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=604203​


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

My current setup is 2 HR24s (4 tuners) on a SWM LNB. Ultimately, I'd like a a HR34 to replace 1 HR24, resulting in 7 tuners...still ok for a SWM LNB, right? Is it possible to have a HR34, a HR24 with both tuners and a HR24 with 1 tuner on a SWM LNB?


----------



## PaceHD (Jan 10, 2010)

IBC Photos? 

The whole setup must be on display today at the show. Does anyone have any photos?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Is it possible to have a HR34, a HR24 with both tuners and a HR24 with 1 tuner on a SWM LNB?


No. One of the HR24s would have to be replaced with an H2x. It's not possible for a SWM-connected DVR to use only one tuner.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

In sat setup you can tell the DVR to use only one tuner. SWiM or not.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> No. One of the HR24s would have to be replaced with an H2x. It's not possible for a SWM-connected DVR to use only one tuner.





David Ortiz said:


> In sat setup you can tell the DVR to use only one tuner. SWiM or not.


Who's right? :lol:


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Who's right? :lol:


Well, I've actually done it, so I would say I am.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> In sat setup you can tell the DVR to use only one tuner. SWiM or not.


Where in sat setup? I don't remember ever seeing this option.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

On the screen where you choose your dish and multiswitch type, there is an option for single or dual tuners, as appropriate.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> On the screen where you choose your dish and multiswitch type, there is an option for single or dual tuners, as appropriate.


I must have always just glossed over this option.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> Where did you hear that it will be extremely small? The prototypes that have been shown at CES certainly weren't.


The client box was large? Why? What did it have? These clients are supposed also be install in TV. If they require anything large then a card size, this RVU thing ain't going to fly.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> The client box was large? Why? What did it have?


From the pictures, it looked to be about the size of an H25.


Drucifer said:


> These clients are supposed also be install in TV.


No they're not. The C30 is a standalone RVU client, it is not meant to be installed in anything.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> From the pictures, it looked to be about the size of an H25.
> 
> No they're not. The C30 is a standalone RVU client, it is not meant to be installed in anything.


Manufacturers are supposed to be making RVU TV sets. That means they connecting a card to the set motherboard. It's either hardwire or a slot-type connection. It isn't going to be a box thingy attachment.


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> The client box was large? Why? What did it have? These clients are supposed also be install in TV. If they require anything large then a card size, this RVU thing ain't going to fly.


You are confusing two different things. The C30 is an RVU client for TVs that don't have built-in RVU. Inside a TV, the RVU might easily be a single card.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Manufacturers are supposed to be making RVU TV sets. That means they connecting a card to the set motherboard. It's either hardwire or a slot-type connection. It isn't going to be a box thingy attachment.


In today's TVs, there is no need for a card. They can do RVU in software, they already have all of the necessary hardware.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"sigma1914" said:


> My current setup is 2 HR24s (4 tuners) on a SWM LNB. Ultimately, I'd like a a HR34 to replace 1 HR24, resulting in 7 tuners...still ok for a SWM LNB, right? Is it possible to have a HR34, a HR24 with both tuners and a HR24 with 1 tuner on a SWM LNB?


As others have said, you can set any of the dvrs to use just one tuner instead of two...

I wouldn't be surprised if you would also be able to set the hr34 to use anywhere from one to five tuners as well.


----------



## YakeVlad (Aug 12, 2011)

Hey all,

I've posted this over in the What I learned at CEDIA thread, but it directly applies here as well. The Series List limit for the HR34 to be released will have a limit of *100 series*, not the 50 as previously stated.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

YakeVlad said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've posted this over in the What I learned at CEDIA thread, but it directly applies here as well. The Series List limit for the HR34 to be released will have a limit of *100 series*, not the 50 as previously stated.


Thanks for the update and continued information.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

YakeVlad said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've posted this over in the What I learned at CEDIA thread, but it directly applies here as well. The Series List limit for the HR34 to be released will have a limit of *100 series*, not the 50 as previously stated.


Well ... since the "cat is already out of the bag" so to speak on this particular point. I learned this on good authority as well.

But I certainly can't say from where I got it ...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

I have never even come close to 50 SLs, so I know I'd never touch 100. But DirecTV is the only provider that has this sort of limit on their DVRs, and I think it's ridiculous. And even on my DVR with 10 SLs, I always ran into random performance issues. What the hell is going on with DirecTV's software developers?


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> I have never even come close to 50 SLs, so I know I'd never touch 100. But DirecTV is the only provider that has this sort of limit on their DVRs, and I think it's ridiculous. And even on my DVR with 10 SLs, I always ran into random performance issues. What the hell is going on with DirecTV's software developers?


Clearly none of them know how to do real-time embedded systems programming on lightweight low-resource platforms nearly as well as all the self-proclaimed experts playing along at home.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Clearly none of them know how to do real-time embedded systems programming on lightweight low-resource platforms nearly as well as all the self-proclaimed experts playing along at home.


BS. :nono2:

What's clear is that none of them know how to do real-time embedded systems programming on lightweight low-resource platforms nearly as well as *all of the developers of other DVR platforms.*


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> BS. :nono2:
> 
> What's clear is that none of them know how to do real-time embedded systems programming on lightweight low-resource platforms nearly as well as *all of the developers of other DVR platforms.*


Again, BS.

All system have limits of one sort or another. System designers can choose to set arbitrary limits on their software to avoid other system limits, or to establish ground rules that other processes - running within the same system - know and can work with as they go about doing their own work.

Conversely, system designers can ignore reality underlying the abstract systems they are creating and avoid setting any arbitrary limits and let the users and the demands of other processes running currently overload the system capabilities and impact performance in ways less "graceful" than a simple limit.

Some DVR designers choose to let you setup any number of automatic recurring recordings but may have less program guide data to parse while doing it, either few channels' worth or less than 12 - 14 days. Others may have the same amount of guide data but be incapable of recording multiple programs while buffering live data during playback, and also recording an internet data stream, while also feeding out yet another stream of programming data to another receiver on the LAN.

All processes take time. Real hardware does not provide instantaneous response. For every box that doesn't have a hard limit to their ability to process the equivalent of series links, I'll show you a box that has other limitations buried inside to compensate.

The system designer who ignores the real-world pays for it eventually.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> All processes take time. Real hardware does not provide instantaneous response.


You had a great post going, and then you had to throw in this apologist garbage. It's too bad.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"LameLefty" said:


> Again, BS.
> 
> All system have limits of one sort or another. System designers can choose to set arbitrary limits on their software to avoid other system limits, or to establish ground rules that other processes - running within the same system - know and can work with as they go about doing their own work.
> 
> ...


To add to your point, show me another system that has anywhere near the guide data to surf through that DirecTV does. And no, dish, while being the closest does not have nearly as much either.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> To add to your point, show me another system that has anywhere near the guide data to surf through that DirecTV does. And no, dish, while being the closest does not have nearly as much either.


Where are you getting this information from? Dish's latest uplink report contains 8426 channels. DirecTV's contains a fraction of that number. So please provide some background information.


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> You had a great post going, and then you had to throw in this apologist garbage. It's too bad.


"Apologist garbage?"

Whatever else you may be, from an editorial comment like that you're not an engineer. :nono:


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Where are you getting this information from? Dish's latest uplink report contains 8426 channels. DirecTV's contains a fraction of that number.


At the same time, it takes the better part of a day to download all of the guide data for two weeks on a DIRECTV DVR while it takes around three hours to download a weeks worth on a DISH DVR.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Where are you getting this information from? Dish's latest uplink report contains 8426 channels. DirecTV's contains a fraction of that number. So please provide some background information.


The 8,426 seems a bit out of range for the US TV industry. There are roughly 1,800 TV stations in the US (plus perhaps some low power ones, I think.) There are far fewer than 500 cable channels.

To get to 8,000, one would need an average of 4 sub channels per broadcast channel.

So I'm not quite sure what the 8,000 number really is. (Yeah, I know, I could go read and understand the Dish uplink report, but this is a DIRECTV thread and I'm watching Monday Night Football.) 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> "Apologist garbage?"
> 
> Whatever else you may be, from an editorial comment like that you're not an engineer. :nono:


You know damn well you were being disingenuous with that comment, trying to excuse poor remote response. I'm not going to let you get away with that.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> The 8,426 seems a bit out of range for the US TV industry.


Remember that DISH has two independent constellations of satellites so a lot of the CONUS channels double up.

DISH also has a much more robust International offering than DIRECTV as well as dedicated feeds for Puerto Rico that are served on the DIRECTV side by DIRECTV LA. DISH also handles AK and HI differently.

Finally, I think the mapdowns are classed as channels also as each channel number must have a listing. There may be four or more channels assigned to each feed in some instances.


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> You know damn well you were being disingenuous with that comment, trying to excuse poor remote response. I'm not going to let you get away with that.


There's nothing disingenuous about my comment and, for your information, I was not specifically referring to remote response. I'm referring to the issues inherent in designing real-world time-critical systems (something I've actually done where human life is at issue - a matter far more important than whether a keypress registers on a DVR). Get down off your high horse there man and have a less emotionally-charged conversation.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> There's nothing disingenuous about my comment and, for your information, I was not specifically referring to remote response.


Well then I apologize. The way you worded the comment made it sound to me like you were saying it's impossible to design a system that can do other tasks while still having good response to remote commands. If that was not the case, then I take my criticism back and will say that was a great post.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Where are you getting this information from? Dish's latest uplink report contains 8426 channels. DirecTV's contains a fraction of that number. So please provide some background information.


Process of elimination. Let me clarify I am talking about guide data that reaches each box and has to be shifted through, ignored processed, etc. Dish is the only one even close, no one else is in the realm. I am talking about guide data that is actually dropped onto the boxes. If we are talking about data in their system at headquarters, I'd say its probably the same + or - a couple % which is arbitrary in comparison to any other provider...

I probably shouldn't say they don't have nearly as much, but then again, unless they are nuts...

Why I think Dish falls short...

Far less Sports pack programming, which adds a lot of channels worth of guide data.

Also, from what I have seen, although this could be wrong, but Directv has a TON more things available for on demand, and all that is in the guide data as well, gets searched and indexed.

Also, I doubt they are runnign all guide data to all sat boxes like Directv does. I would think they would leave all the non eastern arch stuff off the eastern arc, and vice versa, which means they would be able to eliminate a massive amount of LIL channel guide data from each group (especially the OTA data). If they aren't then they are probably very close with Directv, but I don't see why they would have all that data hit all the boxes when they are being driven by two separate systems.

Like I said, Dish is the only one that can be close. No one else has to carry all the LIL and OTA channels for the entire nation.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Process of elimination.


Your reasoning mostly makes sense. I'm not going to do the cool thing here and jump on you because you don't have any actual info.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> Remember that DISH has two independent constellations of satellites so a lot of the CONUS channels double up.
> 
> DISH also has a much more robust International offering than DIRECTV as well as dedicated feeds for Puerto Rico that are served on the DIRECTV side by DIRECTV LA. DISH also handles AK and HI differently.
> 
> Finally, I think the mapdowns are classed as channels also as each channel number must have a listing. There may be four or more channels assigned to each feed in some instances.


I would be very surprised if Dish is duplicating received guide data just because they've got dual arcs. Yes, each arc has guide data sent up, but a receiver should only see one arc and one part of the guide data. So the 8,000+ number isn't really 8,000+ channels of guide, it is 8,000+ mappings of numbers to transponder streams. Much, much smaller amount of data.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Pace Enables First interconnected Multiroom DVR experience with DIRECTV's Home Media Center: http://www.pace.com/universal/news-.../pace-enables-first-multiroom-dvr-experience/​


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Article lists October, so we will see.

I am surprised Solid Signal does not have a placeholder for it.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Sixto said:


> Pace Enables First interconnected Multiroom DVR experience with DIRECTV's Home Media Center: http://www.pace.com/universal/news-.../pace-enables-first-multiroom-dvr-experience/​


Like this


> DIRECTV plans to begin rolling out the Home Media Center to subscribers across the US in October 2011.


from the article.


----------



## FatWakeboarder (Aug 26, 2011)

Did anyone get there eyes on the HR34 at this event?

There is a press release on the Investor site for DirecTV, but I can't post URL's. The event was in Amsterdam on September 9-13.


Still no word on the C30 Client?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

FatWakeboarder said:


> Still no word on the C30 Client?


What kind of word are you looking for? It's going to be released when the HR34 is released, there's no point in releasing it sooner.


----------



## FatWakeboarder (Aug 26, 2011)

Trying to get word on form factor, really just want to know if you will be able to put a C30 behind a flat panel on a wall without dramatically altering the profile of the TV.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

FatWakeboarder said:


> Trying to get word on form factor, really just want to know if you will be able to put a C30 behind a flat panel on a wall without dramatically altering the profile of the TV.


I expect it to be around the same size as the H25, maybe slightly smaller. So the answer should be yes.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

If HR34 has lots of new features (e.g. PIP) that don't work on H/HR2* models, why does it come with an old H/HR2* remote?

Shouldn't the HR3* models have their own remotes?


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Drucifer said:


> If HR34 has lots of new features (e.g. PIP) that don't work on H/HR2* models, why does it come with an old H/HR2* remote?
> 
> Shouldn't the HR3* models have their own remotes?


It's been stated the HR34 will use the *YELLOW* button for PiP...

~Alan


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> If HR34 has lots of new features (e.g. PIP) that don't work on H/HR2* models, why does it come with an old H/HR2* remote?


Lots of new features? You listed the only one, at least as far as the remote is concerned.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> It's been stated the HR34 will use the *YELLOW* button for PiP...
> 
> ~Alan


I hope the installers show people that, otherwise how are they going to know that unless they're on here? I still say they should have had dedicated PIP buttons. I guess D* had a reason not to include them.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I hope the installers show people that, otherwise how are they going to know that unless they're on here? I still say they should have had dedicated PIP buttons. I guess D* had a reason not to include them.


I suspect it will be fine...

If there's not a note of it on-screen, it will be in the manual.

No reason to make two different remotes for one function.

LINK

~Alan


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I hope the installers show people that, otherwise how are they going to know that unless they're on here?


How do people know that the Blue button brings up the Mini Guide?


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> I suspect it will be fine...
> 
> If there's not a note of it on-screen, it will be in the manual.
> 
> ...


True, but the yellow button should be instant PIP "on" with a toggle to go between small PIP screen, side by side, and off, not bring up a screen in which you have to to pick one, thats too many button presses if you ask me.



Jeremy W said:


> How do people know that the Blue button brings up the Mini Guide?


Good point, not sure.

And how are they going to know that down arrow will be PIP swap? See the reason for my dedicated PIP buttons, "PIP", "swap" , "move" etc.

I guess I'll be one of the few to use PIP.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

TheRatPatrol said:


> True, but the yellow button should be instant PIP "on" with a toggle to go between small PIP screen, side by side, and off, not bring up a screen in which you have to to pick one, thats too many button presses if you ask me.


With the new GUI (heck, those pictures show an older GUI than the current one... who knows how it'll look in the future one), it may look different with defaults set up in the Menu system (a la recording defaults).

It's October... so it shouldn't be long now.



TheRatPatrol said:


> Good point, not sure.
> 
> And how are they going to know that down arrow will be PIP swap? See the reason for my dedicated PIP buttons, "PIP", "swap" , "move" etc.
> 
> I guess I'll be one of the few to use PIP.


There are manuals for that kind of thing. I don't mess with them personally, but those who are electronically-challenged should always read theirs.

I want an HR34 (though monetary issues may force me to wait a while after release... UGH!), but I doubt I'll get much use out of the PiP function once I do.

~Alan


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> How do people know that the Blue button brings up the Mini Guide?


I figure the average customer likely doesn't even know the Mini Guide exists.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> I want an HR34 (though monetary issues may force me to wait a while after release... UGH!), but I doubt I'll get much use out of the PiP function once I do.
> 
> ~Alan


I couldn't care much less about PIP, I just want the tuners.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> There are manuals for that kind of thing.


And manuals can be come outdated pretty quick (think HR20).

But come on now, guys don't read manuals or road maps.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

TheRatPatrol said:


> And manuals can be come outdated pretty quick (think HR20).
> 
> But come on now, guys don't read manuals or road maps.


The dangers of stereotyping...

I don't read manuals (for the most part... there are some exceptions), but I always use road maps... perhaps that's because I don't drive... 

Either way, PiP is a feature... but not a necessity, so as to require the installer to explain how to use it to the subscriber, IMHO.

~Alan


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## cthomp21 (Oct 9, 2008)

I've been waiting, waiting, waiting for the HR34... I hope it comes out soon!

Everyday I open up dbstalk, I'm hoping for a "First Look - HR34" Sadly, it's still the H25 on the front page.

Anyone have any ideas what the price structure might look like? Will having a HR34 still require the $3 MRV fee? What might it cost for a C30 client?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TheRatPatrol said:


> And manuals can be come outdated pretty quick (think HR20).


If you believe the leaked copy of the manual, the same document is used for both the HR20 and the HR34!


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

TheRatPatrol said:


> And manuals can be come outdated pretty quick (think HR20).
> 
> But come on now, guys don't read manuals or road maps.


Guess, I'm the oddball. I go over them with fine tooth comb looking for goodies I would like.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Drucifer said:


> Guess, I'm the oddball. I go over them with fine tooth comb looking for goodies I would like.


Good practice. But it seems a poorly designed bit of gear to have to read any part of any manual to get started, run the basics.

And I *like *maps, charts and topos. Asking directions, well, I have done it three or four times in my life.....:hurah:


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

My comment was a joke, hence the smiley face. Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> If HR34 has lots of new features (e.g. PIP) that don't work on H/HR2* models, why does it come with an old H/HR2* remote?
> 
> Shouldn't the HR3* models have their own remotes?


The HR34 is really about more capabilities of existing features. PIP is the only true new feature I can think of that I have heard about. The c30 is a whole new ball of wax, but then not so much. Its really the same feel and capabilities as a regular dvr, just hooked up different allowing for more flexibility.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> There are manuals for that kind of thing. I don't mess with them personally, but those who are electronically-challenged should always read theirs.
> 
> I want an HR34 (though monetary issues may force me to wait a while after release... UGH!), but I doubt I'll get much use out of the PiP function once I do.
> 
> ~Alan


They will use TV Mail to get the word out (they do that for the mini guide now), and it will probably be a heavily marketed feature because does any other major provider offer HD PIP and POP with a 5 tuner DVR? Uh no.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

TheRatPatrol said:


> My comment was a joke, hence the smiley face. Sorry if I offended anyone.


No offense was taken... I was just joking around! 



inkahauts said:


> They will use TV Mail to get the word out (they do that for the mini guide now), and it will probably be a heavily marketed feature because does any other major provider offer HD PIP and POP with a 5 tuner DVR? Uh no.


Unless DirecTV can target specific STBs with TV Mail, I doubt we'll see TV Mail for it since it might confuse subscribers without HR34s...

~Alan


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> No offense was taken... I was just joking around!
> 
> Unless DirecTV can target specific STBs with TV Mail, I doubt we'll see TV Mail for it since it might confuse subscribers without HR34s...
> 
> ~Alan


I disagree. An easy way to get people to call in and see about upgrading. And besides, since when has that concept stopped Direct from sending out dvr features to non dvrs?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I disagree. An easy way to get people to call in and see about upgrading. And besides, since when has that concept stopped Direct from sending out dvr features to non dvrs?


The question you have to ask is whether DirecTV wants people to upgrade (at least this year anyway)...

As for your question, I don't have non-DVRs, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm blanking on what you mean.

~Alan


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## TheJackal (Sep 24, 2008)

To the best of everyone's knowledge, will the PIP function also support POP (side by side) or will it only be picture in picture? Wanting to know since I'm trying to figure out the best way to do side by side for 2 football games on a 141" diagonal 2.40:1 ratio screen.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TheJackal said:


> To the best of everyone's knowledge, will the PIP function also support POP (side by side)


Yes.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

"TheJackal" said:


> To the best of everyone's knowledge, will the PIP function also support POP (side by side) or will it only be picture in picture? Wanting to know since I'm trying to figure out the best way to do side by side for 2 football games on a 141" diagonal 2.40:1 ratio screen.


Yes look at the link above that Alan posted, it has a picture of what the side by side looks like.


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## TheJackal (Sep 24, 2008)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Yes look at the link above that Alan posted, it has a picture of what the side by side looks like.


Thanks. It's on a previous page for me. I started at the beginning of the thread but never made it the 17 pages before asking my question. The picture is pretty awful if you ask me. There is so much wasted space. At least I'll be able to zoom to fill the majority of a 2.4:1 screen. I'll see how I like it first before exploring the alternative which is a $1000+ scaler which would still require at least 2 source inputs.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

TheJackal said:


> The picture is pretty awful if you ask me. There is so much wasted space.


My last TV had TwinView (side by side) and I never used it. I don't see how side by side could be any different, though.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

David Ortiz said:


> My last TV had TwinView (side by side) and I never used it. I don't see how side by side could be any different, though.


I would say it would be mainly use for sports.


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## norbl (Oct 10, 2010)

It seems like the free Sunday Ticket offer is due to end Oct. 5. I wonder if the next new offer will have the HR34.

I am still on cable and have been mulling over switching to Directv for the last 18 months. One of the deciding factors will be whether I can get a good signal in the location I want the disk installed (I want to be able to get to it easily to clear off the snow). Do you think I can get them to come out and do a site survey before ordering?

I've finally decided to make the switch because my cable company is going to go to all digital soon. I have a home built DVR (BeyondTV) with four tuners. I would have to have four converter boxes for it to continue to record four channels. Screw that.

I hope I won't have to pay too much for the rest of the season for NFL Sunday Ticket.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

norbl said:


> One of the deciding factors will be whether I can get a good signal in the location I want the disk installed (I want to be able to get to it easily to clear off the snow). Do you think I can get them to come out and do a site survey before ordering?


No, but if you order and they can't get signal, you can cancel.

I'm sure someone will chime in here after me, but there are a couple of ways to do a self site survery to give you an idea if you can get signal where you want the dish.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

norbl said:


> I am still on cable and have been mulling over switching to Directv for the last 18 months. One of the deciding factors will be whether I can get a good signal in the location I want the disk installed (I want to be able to get to it easily to clear off the snow). Do you think I can get them to come out and do a site survey before ordering?


One quick way is this weekend, see where the sun is starting at about 12:11-12:38. Of course don't look directly at it, but those times the sun will essentially be where the various satellites you need are.

Those times are for Saturday in Phoenix so may not be totally accurate for you, but a decent estimate if nothing is close.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> One quick way is this weekend, see where the sun is starting at about 12:11-12:38. *Of course don't look directly at it*, but those times the sun will essentially be where the various satellites you need are.


I credit my excellent eyesight at days of spending my day staring at the sun. Recommended! 

~Alan


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

norbl said:


> ..... Do you think I can get them to come out and do a site survey before ordering?


See the link in my signature for a site that tells you the dates and times this week when you can use the sun's location to perform a site survey. It's as easy as avoiding the shadows


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

norbl said:


> It seems like the free Sunday Ticket offer is due to end Oct. 5. I wonder if the next new offer will have the HR34.
> 
> I am still on cable and have been mulling over switching to Directv for the last 18 months. One of the deciding factors will be whether I can get a good signal in the location I want the disk installed (I want to be able to get to it easily to clear off the snow). Do you think I can get them to come out and do a site survey before ordering?
> 
> ...


Or if you want to spend 30 to find out, and have an ipad or iphone, get the dishpointer app.


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## TheJackal (Sep 24, 2008)

David Ortiz said:


> My last TV had TwinView (side by side) and I never used it. I don't see how side by side could be any different, though.


My old Mitz rear projection had split screen POP. I had two UltimateTV receivers hooked up to it and would watch two football games side by side (plus UTV offered PIP so I actually had 4 games going at once. Two split screen and then two PIP boxes in the corners). Yes, each picture was squished and the players were all tall and skinny. But now that I have a 2.4:1 screen that would be ideal. I could stretch the image horozontally with my anamorphic lens and fill the entire screen.

With the POP picture I saw in a previous post, I'll need to zoom to cut as much of the gray bars off the top and bottom. Not the end of the world (and it will save me $1000+ from needing to buy a scaler to do something better). I'm happy they are including it as a feature.


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## norbl (Oct 10, 2010)

Neat tip. Thanks.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

norbl said:


> It seems like the free Sunday Ticket offer is due to end Oct. 5. I wonder if the next new offer will have the HR34.


Yes

Also for us existing people that are gnawing at the paws we'll have to wait just like the H25 unless you're currently testing one.


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## azvipers (Jan 19, 2008)

Just heard the HR34 will be available 10/13 in AZ


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

"azvipers" said:


> Just heard the HR34 will be available 10/13 in AZ


From..........?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> From..........?


DirecTV, for new customers only.


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

Ok smart guy I was asking where he herd it not where you'd get the box from... Lol


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Ok smart guy I was asking where he herd it not where you'd get the box from... Lol


I honestly thought you were asking where the box would come from, wasn't trying to be an ass (for once). My mistake.


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## Sgt. Slaughter (Feb 20, 2009)

"Jeremy W" said:


> I honestly thought you were asking where the box would come from, wasn't trying to be an ass (for once). My mistake.


Haha no worries. Just thought it was pretty obvious where it would come from. LOL not like ppl would be calling up timewarner for it. Haha


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Yeah was this announced somewhere? I'm happy with my current setup, but I've been waiting for the HR34 to sign my parents up for DirecTV. They will be new customers, and live in an MPEG4 market so hopefully they should qualify to get it. I'm planning on this possibly being their Christmas present from me and my wife (I'll pay all upfront costs for them, they just pay the monthly cost).

I'll finally be able to get rid of Comcast at their house. Any maybe have access to more than 8 channels in my bedroom there when I'm visiting.

Any word on cost for the C30's yet?

Any word on Blu-Ray players with RVU clients built in (this is what I'm really hoping for)?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV, for new customers only.


So if that's for new customers only, I wonder how long before Solid Signal gets it. I'd think it'd be fairly simple plug and play for me. Don't see needing an installer. Even have a terminator for my splitter if I do remove both my current DVRs.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> Yeah was this announced somewhere?


Not yet, but I'd expect a First Look pretty soon...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> So if that's for new customers only, I wonder how long before Solid Signal gets it. I'd think it'd be fairly simple plug and play for me. Don't see needing an installer. Even have a terminator for my splitter if I do remove both my current DVRs.


If the past holds true to this launch it will be a select market launch for a month or so and then national. After that it's usually a couple months, or however long it takes to get supplied up, before they allow existing customers/solid signal to sell them to existing customers.


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## azvipers (Jan 19, 2008)

The audio/video contractor doing my home said he was told this morning they will have the HR34 on 10/13. He didn’t have any other details.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

I can't wait. I'm very close to emptying three DVRs. Does anyone have any news on monthly fees?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV, for new customers only.


Interesting...some were told differently from other reliable DirecTV sources...that a "conversion/migration" option would be offered. I guess we'll see.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting...some were told differently from other reliable DirecTV sources...that a "conversion/migration" option would be offered. I guess we'll see.


Absolutely. But not on 10/13, as far as I'm aware.


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## rainydave (May 28, 2006)

from Directv.com



> What is the Home Media Center HD DVR? How do I get it?
> 
> The Home Media Center HD DVR receiver represents the next generation in set-top box technology. It lets you record five programs at once, so you don't have to worry about recording conflicts. Its full terabyte of DVR storage--the largest recording capacity in the industry-allows you to keep more of your recorded programs than ever. And with DIRECTV's Whole-Home DVR service, you can enjoy your recorded programs in any room of the house.
> 
> The Home Media Center HD DVR is currently available only to new DIRECTV customers in select markets and only by phone.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Any guesses on how much its going to cost?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV, for new customers only.


Not true at all. New customers at first, existing customers in 2012. This rollout is no different than new gear in the past.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

> DIRECTV is once again raising the bar on TV
> technology with the release of our Home Media
> Center HD DVR (HR34). This new receiver has a
> hard drive twice the size of its predecessors, the
> ...






I can not comment on pricing, other markets, or anything else at this time.


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## norbl (Oct 10, 2010)

I just called in and after having to give them more information than I really wanted to prior to ordering, I was told it was not available in my market. They had no ETA and they said it is only available in five markets. I would have been a new customer.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

norbl said:


> I just called in and after having to give them more information than I really wanted to prior to ordering, I was told it was not available in my market. They had no ETA and they said it is only available in five markets. I would have been a new customer.


Went live today in the markets listed above. $399 is the lease price sans promotions.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

AS usual, existing customers get the shaft. 2012 huh?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Davenlr said:


> AS usual, existing customers get the shaft. 2012 huh?


This unit was designed specifically for new customer installs. So I can understand DIRECTV actually implementing the plan as designed. 

(And then making the units available for existing customers when any backlog has been caught up.)

Cheers,
tom


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> AS usual, existing customers get the shaft. 2012 huh?


Honestly, with the 5 tuners and a few of the other limitations, I personally don't see a big appeal to existing subs. Keep in mind, its limited on it's initial rollout until production ramps all the way up. Same as damn near every other thing that Directv has released. Not sure why this is such a nagging point anymore.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> This unit was designed specifically for new customer installs. So I can understand DIRECTV actually implementing the plan as designed.
> 
> (And then making the units available for existing customers when any backlog has been caught up.)
> 
> ...


So if you own an Iphone, you should wait until new customers get the new model before you can upgrade? Deplete the stock giving free installs, before you SELL them to your current customers wanting to upgrade? That makes no sense to me, but hey, I dont run the company. Ill find one somewhere.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Honestly, with the 5 tuners and a few of the other limitations, I personally don't see a big appeal to existing subs. Keep in mind, its limited on it's initial rollout until production ramps all the way up. Same as damn near every other thing that Directv has released. Not sure why this is such a nagging point anymore.


Hmmm, 100 series links and 3 simultaneous MRV streams.... I wonder why existing subs would want one.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Closing this, as the first look is now available.


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