# with the move to mpeg4...



## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

with the move to mpeg4 and the 2 announced satellite launches, does that open up the possibility for more HD locals in the near future?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Near? Maybe in 6 months or so.

I think they may add one or two HD locals before the end of the year.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

huskerpat said:


> with the move to mpeg4 and the 2 announced satellite launches, does that open up the possibility for more HD locals in the near future?


There could be one or two locations launched in HD this year prior to the new satellites (didn't one just light up this week?)... but once those new satellites go up, Charlie said on the last Chat there should be room for most of the major markets.

Don't know what that means... considering Dish launched Raleigh HD locals last December... but only ABC and NBC.. we are still waiting for CBS and FOX to go, but Dish hasn't reached an agreement yet. Those contracts can be a drawn out thing


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

I feel like I'm just full of questions today...

I assume mpeg4 will take less space to record. Has anyone seen estimates as to how much HD record time the 622 will have?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

huskerpat said:


> I feel like I'm just full of questions today...
> 
> I assume mpeg4 will take less space to record. Has anyone seen estimates as to how much HD record time the 622 will have?


Hard to say... every show is different. Not all HD is created equal...

But when I record Law & Order from my NBC HD Local, it takes only 45 minutes to record 70 minutes (I pad 5 minutes before and after to be sure I get it all) Rough math puts that at about 65% of expected space usage.

In theory, that could boost the 30-hour HD expected capacity to around 45 hours if everything you recorded was from an MPEG4 HD channel.

Your mileage may vary... it also makes a difference if you record a 1080i channel vs a 720p channel, as the 720p takes less space for the same program... so it may be possible to creep close to 50 hours of HD with the ViP622 once everything is in MPEG4.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

HDMe said:


> Hard to say... every show is different. Not all HD is created equal...
> 
> But when I record Law & Order from my NBC HD Local, it takes only 45 minutes to record 70 minutes (I pad 5 minutes before and after to be sure I get it all) Rough math puts that at about 65% of expected space usage.
> 
> ...


This will be a good thing because with the new HD channels coming up, it looks like everything I watch will now be HD and I won't be able to watch it fast enough to keep it from filling up!


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## ronalr (Jul 11, 2007)

Does anyone know how to find out if Baltimore is going to get HD locals on Dish? When you call Dish one person says they don't know anything about it and another says it is on the list. Is there a list somewhere with a timeframe or does it sound like not until the new satellites are up?
Thanks, Ron


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dbconsultant said:


> This will be a good thing because with the new HD channels coming up, it looks like everything I watch will now be HD and I won't be able to watch it fast enough to keep it from filling up!


I know this is off-topic... but man, I just really looked at your avatar, and it freaked me out! What is that thing?


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I know this is off-topic... but man, I just really looked at your avatar, and it freaked me out! What is that thing?


It's a lemur! Not freaky - cute!:lol:


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> It's a lemur! Not freaky - cute!:lol:


This would be cute ...










I see some really freaky ones ... that I don't want to put here.


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

dbconsultant said:


> It's a lemur! Not freaky - cute!:lol:


I was gonna say...it looks like a Lemur to me.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

huskerpat said:


> I assume mpeg4 will take less space to record. Has anyone seen estimates as to how much HD record time the 622 will have?


As noted, it depends on source ... but with new MPEG4 HD fitting 6 channels per transponder and old MPEG2 SD fitting 12 channels per transponder I'd say the maximum would be around 100 HRs of pure MPEG4 HD.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dbconsultant said:


> It's a lemur! Not freaky - cute!:lol:


nataraj's pic is a cute lemur... your somehow looks like it is trying to hypnotize me to think evil thoughts or something 

But getting back to topic since I wandered off there... James has a different way of figuring out possibilities... so I guess the range of "expected" HD capacity on the ViP could be reasonably considered to fall between 30-100 if all recordings are MPEG4... based on my fuzzy math and recordings of things I watch, I was figuring on around 45-50 hours of HD... but maybe my estimate was lower.

Then again, if Dish cranks up the resolution after going back to MPEG4, who knows.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Then again, if Dish cranks up the resolution after going back to MPEG4, who knows.


It's the bits that count! 1/6th of a transponder is still 1/6th of a transponder (although comparing a QPSK transponder to an 8PSK transponder changes the math, as well as the differences in FEC).

That's why I use the weasel phrase: "maximum" "around".


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I thought I remember them saying that mpeg 4 could add up to 20 sd channels on one transponder with no pq loss?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

ronalr said:


> Does anyone know how to find out if Baltimore is going to get HD locals on Dish? When you call Dish one person says they don't know anything about it and another says it is on the list. Is there a list somewhere with a timeframe or does it sound like not until the new satellites are up?


:welcome_s to DBSTalk!
It is on the list -- for 2006, along with 17 other markets that are yet to be carried. The new all-MPEG4 service will supposedly have 100 HD locals.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> It's the bits that count! 1/6th of a transponder is still 1/6th of a transponder (although comparing a QPSK transponder to an 8PSK transponder changes the math, as well as the differences in FEC).
> 
> That's why I use the weasel phrase: "maximum" "around".


Yeah... I was just leaving an "out" in case they can't fit 6 per transponder at full resolution. At full resolution, the bitrate for 6 channels on the same transponder might be pushing it... then again, better encoders may do a better job.

I was allowing for perhaps 5 on a transponder instead of 6... which would give a little more to the bitrate and up the space.

Since we are all just guessing anyway


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I thought I remember them saying that mpeg 4 could add up to 20 sd channels on one transponder with no pq loss?


Add is a good word, since they can do 12 SDs on a MPEG2 transponder. I would not be surprised to see 30-40 SDs on a transponder that is 8PSK MPEG4. All of AEP on 5 transponders? Not bad.


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

James Long said:


> Add is a good word, since they can do 12 SDs on a MPEG2 transponder. I would not be surprised to see 30-40 SDs on a transponder that is 8PSK MPEG4. All of AEP on 5 transponders? Not bad.


I wouldn't care if the SD is overcompressed - if HD counterparts are available. People still using SD ( next year) are probably viewing on TVs less than 30" anyway ...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The good news is that 40 SD per transponder isn't a reflection of "overcompressed". It is just a benefit of being on 8PSK transponders in MPEG4. (About the same PQ as today's SD. Perhaps an improvement.)


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## ronalr (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks BobaBird for the welcome and the answer...Great Forum!!
Ron


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

HDMe said:


> nataraj's pic is a cute lemur... your somehow looks like it is trying to hypnotize me to think evil thoughts or something


Hee hee hee hee!:goofygrin


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

So there's one thing I wanna get cleared up here. When E* goes MPEG4 next month, will that make all old receivers obsolete, and thus require new receivers?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Lincoln6Echo said:


> So there's one thing I wanna get cleared up here. When E* goes MPEG4 next month, will that make all old receivers obsolete, and thus require new receivers?


Only obsolete if you were getting the old MPEG-2 VOOM channels with an 811 or 6000 receiver. That's the scope of the change (for now).


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

Mikey said:


> Only obsolete if you were getting the old MPEG-2 VOOM channels with an 811 or 6000 receiver. That's the scope of the change (for now).


Well, I was speaking in more general terms. Will this make all old SD receivers obsolete? We still have two older SD receivers on SD TVs.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Lincoln6Echo said:


> Well, I was speaking in more general terms. Will this make all old SD receivers obsolete? We still have two older SD receivers on SD TVs.


That's what I'm saying. E* isn't going totally MPEG-4 next month. Only the original HD VOOM channels, for now. SD isn't changing at all.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Lincoln6Echo said:


> So there's one thing I wanna get cleared up here. When E* goes MPEG4 next month, will that make all old receivers obsolete, and thus require new receivers?


Dish isn't going MPEG4 next month. They are converting all the Voom channels to MPEG4, so those customers who don't already have an MPEG4 receiver will need to upgrade if they want to keep Voom. For everyone else nothing will change.


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

HDMe said:


> Dish isn't going MPEG4 next month. They are converting all the Voom channels to MPEG4, so those customers who don't already have an MPEG4 receiver will need to upgrade if they want to keep Voom. For everyone else nothing will change.


Oh, OK. I gotcha now. So my folks won't have to upgrade their receivers then. Cool....well, not cool, but you know what I mean.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Lincoln6Echo said:


> Oh, OK. I gotcha now. So my folks won't have to upgrade their receivers then. Cool....well, not cool, but you know what I mean.


It should be a while before the old SD receivers are rendered moot. I expect it will take a few years for Dish to fully move everything to MPEG4. In the meantime they are preparing to launch a new completely MPEG4 service and will probably sign up new customers from that point to the new service... but again, any requirement to be MPEG4 right now rests solely with the new HD channels. It will be a while before the SD requires it.


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## skibama (Jun 13, 2007)

Okay, I guess I'm still confused. When and if E* switches to all mpeg4, will that mean no more 129? Since my trees filled in last spring, I can't receive 129 anymore, and I was hoping the switch to mpeg4 would help me get some of my lost channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* has a long term commitment for 129°. I would not expect that to go away. IF E* gets an MPEG4 service up you will need line of site to wherever that service is located. At the moment, that location is all rumor and speculation.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

Jim5506 said:


> Near? Maybe in 6 months or so.
> 
> I think they may add one or two before the end of the year.


Jim,

Dish is going to add 5 more HD channels on August 15th, with 2 more September 1st, and several more by mid September. Anounced additions are Discovery HD (Simulcast of the regular Discovery Channel), TLC HD, Science HD, MHD, VS/GOLF HD. History HD and Weather HD launch on September 1st. Several others are highly likely namely TBS HD, and 2 or 3 more HBO HD channels.

As HD networks launch Dish is likely to add them to keep pace with DirecTV.

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Jim was responding to a question about more HD locals, not national HD channels.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

HDMe said:


> Jim was responding to a question about more HD locals, not national HD channels.


HDme,

Oops sorry about the confusion, or in the immortal words of Emily LaTella (SNL's Gilda Radner) "Oooh, Never Mind"

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

JohnL said:


> Oops sorry about the confusion, or in the immortal words of Emily LaTella (SNL's Gilda Radner) "Oooh, Never Mind"


No problem... back when the thread started, I had to read it twice to make sure because I read it similarly to your interpretation first... then understood better the 2nd time around.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

skibama said:


> Okay, I guess I'm still confused. When and if E* switches to all mpeg4, will that mean no more 129?


I'm all for it. Then maybe Dish would put my HD RSN an a bird I can actually see


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## skibama (Jun 13, 2007)

Okay, so basically, if I can't see 129, I'm screwed, right? How much more effective is adding a second dish to get 129? I get a great signal with 110 and 119.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

skibama said:


> Okay, so basically, if I can't see 129, I'm screwed, right? How much more effective is adding a second dish to get 129? I get a great signal with 110 and 119.


I have a 2nd dish solution pointing at 129. While every installation is different, I have yet to hear of a person getting worse signal with a dedicated dish for 129, so when in doubt if you don't mind a 2nd Dish it is worth investigating.

When my installer came (keep in mind I have a good local installer) he checked things out and decided the 2nd dish was the best option.


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## yardline (Jan 9, 2007)

I would hope they could add Tampa in time for football season. We are the 12 market in the country.


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## madisonjar (Aug 6, 2007)

where are the two new birds going? anyone have links for me to studY?


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## Calvin386 (May 23, 2007)

I don't know if this helps but I had line of sight problems on 129. 

My solution was to have one dish pointed at 110 and 119. Then a second dish pointed at 61.5. Everything is working properly.


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