# Survivor 11-19



## AllenE (Dec 19, 2006)

Ding dong the witch is dead!

I can't believe he found it again.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Too bad he needed a clue this time.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

AllenE said:


> Ding dong the witch is dead!


All is well in Survivor land.

Does anyone know he has it?


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> All is well in Survivor land.
> 
> Does anyone know he has it?


Good question, I would think if he was as despised by the others as much as we are led to believe they would have voted for him once again whether he had the idol or not

It looks as if he will be stirring the pot once again next week by raising some Awesome havoc :lol:


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

AllenE said:


> I can't believe he found it again.


Is the next Survivor already shooting? Curoius to see if the producers make a bit harder to find...


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, I have to give props to Russell. He is working at it and outsmarting some pretty smug "intelligent" people. Based on her comments after being voted off, I still don;t think she gets it.

Spoiler about when next season is shooting:


Spoiler



THey already shot the next season, they did it basically back to back in the same general area as the one currently shooting. Not sure if they will use differnt actual camps, but most likely they will. THey finished shooting days before the Tsunami to hit the area. The tsunami destroyed the resrot they use fo teh Jury and some staff members as well as the camp areas I am sure


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't think anyone else in the tribe suspects Russell has the HII. He definitely wants to keep this a secret for now.

I think it's great they flipped John and he's now dropped his purple ... a complete role reversal for the power position Galu was in. It's all Foa Foa now from what I can see.

Now next week should be a LOT of fun. From the previews for next week:


Spoiler



Could Shambo be staging a coup to take down Russell? That's the impression I got ... they don't think he has the idol, so she thinks it's the perfect time? If that's what they try, can't wait for Russell to find out and seek revenge!


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## dogs31 (Feb 27, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I don't think anyone else in the tribe suspects Russell has the HII. He definitely wants to keep this a secret for now.
> 
> I think it's great they flipped John and he's now dropped his purple ... a complete role reversal for the power position Galu was in. It's all Foa Foa now from what I can see.
> 
> ...


Next week is going to be a recap show with outtakes. The next new "Survivor" episode is going to air December 3.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

You gotta give Russell credit. He's been playing the game from the getgo. Found three immunity idols, two without clues. Making brilliant play after brilliant play and is now in charge of the game. It's like, wow!!!

However, if Richard Hatch did some of the things in Borneo that Russell did here (e.g. dump out water, burn socks, etc.), he would have been vilified!!! How times have changed!!!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

I just have to wonder what Dave's reaction was after he saw the episode. He was turning rocks over within a couple of feet of the HII and didn't find it. The Russell loses him and goes back to find it. Classic.

Dave can go anytime as well.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

I must say, Rusell, IMO is the best player ever on Survivor. 

This has been a good season, I'm hoping for an All-Star season soon though.


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

Why did he not play the idol this week? Did he get word that it wasn't going to be him? The only person we know is on the Galu side (from Foa Foa) is Shambo and they don't seem to tell her anything. If Russell knew it was going to be a tie you think he would have played the idol to guarantee him staying.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

What were the tiebreaking rules? If they vote the second time and it is still a tie WHO had to draw rocks - just the people voting in the second round (meaning the two people voted for are safe), or everyone?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

spunkyvision said:


> If Russell knew it was going to be a tie you think he would have played the idol to guarantee him staying.





pfp said:


> What were the tiebreaking rules? If they vote the second time and it is still a tie WHO had to draw rocks - just the people voting in the second round (meaning the two people voted for are safe), or everyone?


If Russell knew for sure it was going to be a tie and it was not him being voted for, then playing the idol would have been no benefit to him if he had not gotten any votes.

The tiebreaker rules are if there is a tie, there is a revote among everyone except those who were voted for. In this case, Natalie and Laura did not vote in the second round. People could only vote for Natalie or Laura. Laura went home because John switched his vote. *

If there had been another tie, Laura and Natalie would have been safe and the other 8 would have drawn stones from a bag. Odd colored stone goes home. This means the person who had immunity could have gone home as well.

* I wish Jeff had not taken the vote count to 5-4 Laura when he read the final vote. Instead, if he had read Laura's 6th vote at 5-3, the tribe would not have known how many defected.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks, That's what I thought. That really motivates people to change votes since two people who were voted to leave are the only ones that are safe.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

I thought the tie-breaker rules in the past were starting a fire???

Whoever started their fire first and burnt thru a string, won.....


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

dave29 said:


> I thought the tie-breaker rules in the past were starting a fire???
> 
> Whoever started their fire first and burnt thru a string, won.....


It definitely was in the past. I'm not sure when it changed.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

dave29 said:


> I thought the tie-breaker rules in the past were starting a fire???
> 
> Whoever started their fire first and burnt thru a string, won.....


The fire-starter tiebreaker I think is just for the final 4.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> This means the person who had immunity could have gone home as well.


That would definitely not be fair. If someone has immunity, he/she should not have to participate in the draw.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

Dr_J said:


> That would definitely not be fair. If someone has immunity, he/she should not have to participate in the draw.


Jeff said that everyone but (the immunity holder) would have to draw, if I heard right.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Yeah, I'd be really curious if the person with immunity would have to draw. Also wonder if the hidden idol could be played before the draw too.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Herdfan said:


> I just have to wonder what Dave's reaction was after he saw the episode. He was turning rocks over within a couple of feet of the HII and didn't find it. The Russell loses him and goes back to find it. Classic.
> 
> Dave can go anytime as well.


So far this season, Russell seems to have it all figured out. He was even able to tell exactly where the HII was, knew if he took off running he would be followed and then he could come back for it. If the others were not so worried about what he was doing, they could have had it.

At this point Russell deserves to win, in my mind he already did.


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## JDubbs413 (Sep 4, 2007)

I typically do not like the sneaky type of players like Russell but he is definitely the best player in the game. I actually like him and hope he makes it to the end. It won't be easy.


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## SWORDFISH (Apr 16, 2007)

dave29 said:


> I must say, Rusell, IMO is the best player ever on Survivor.
> 
> This has been a good season, I'm hoping for an All-Star season soon though.





Spoiler



Next season is the Survivor 10th Anniversary Edition and is an All-Star season. It was filmed in Samoa immediately following this season and should begin airing in February.



SF


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

SWORDFISH said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't wait, this will be good.


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## HongKongPhooey (Aug 3, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> All is well in Survivor land.
> 
> Does anyone know he has it?


Wasn't that the HII that Russell was swinging around in front of both Laura and Monica?


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

The one with immunity can go home in the draw. Pappy went home that way a few seasons back.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Lee L said:


> The one with immunity can go home in the draw. Pappy went home that way a few seasons back.


Assuming they haven't chaged the rules. You know, they've done that ... a lot.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

Lee L said:


> The one with immunity can go home in the draw. Pappy went home that way a few seasons back.


He didn't have immunity, but he also didn't have any votes cast against him. That was the controversy at the time; people felt that only those that had votes cast against them should draw. It's been so long that I barely remember the other players, but I do remember it was the final 4, and the vote was tied 2-2. Paschal did not get any votes. There wasn't even a revote. They were given two minutes to decide amongst themselves if someone would voluntarily quit. Who in their right mind would do so? So three people drew rocks (the one that had immunity didn't). Paschal drew the "purple rock of death" and was sent home. It had a very forced, hastily made-up feel to it, magnified by the fact that it was the final 4 and part of the 2-hour finale. It was like the producers wanted to do everything possible to discourage tie votes, which had started to become commonplace. It worked. There wasn't another tie vote for 6 seasons. Now, tie votes in the final 4 go to a fire-starting challenge, while other tie votes unfold as happened last week. Under this new scheme, every tie vote has been followed by someone flipping in the revote to avoid drawing rocks, and as a result, no rocks have been drawn since Paschal's "purple rock of death."


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

HongKongPhooey said:


> Wasn't that the HII that Russell was swinging around in front of both Laura and Monica?


That's what I thought!!!!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Crazy.


Spoiler



Unreal Nat won. This person did nothing! I am shocked that the jury screwed Russell.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Crazy.


I agree



Spoiler



But the jury didn't really have a good alternate choice and absolutely despised Russel for the way he acted towards them. While Russel certainly outwitted and out played everyone, his arrogance and lack of tact cost him the game and a chance to out last. In a game where you rely upon those you eliminate from the game to vote you the winner, you have to take the social aspect into account and you can't go around bragging how you're going to win, how people had better not cross you and certainly don't taunt the losers and rub their faces in their defeat and your success. The way Russel acted that final day towards Mick and Natalie was horrible. Russel got too full of himself and took way too much for granted.


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## farmboy1 (Jan 17, 2007)

Russel was the only one that played the game


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

Spoiler



Russel was ht best Survivor in the history of the game, even though he was arrogant at the end, he should have won


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

say-what said:


> I agree
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I agree, but Russel should have won. The jury was bitter because he had gotten all of them voted off. So maybe we, the viewing audience, need to start voting for who wins, as we see more of the show then do the jury. He "played the game" the way its supposed to be played.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

dave29 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Russel was ht best Survivor in the history of the game, even though he was arrogant at the end, he should have won


I'm sorry but I could not disagree with you more.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

A classic case on why our jury system is so unpredictable. The wrong person won!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

fluffybear said:


> I'm sorry but I could not disagree with you more.


Who was better?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

njblackberry said:


> A classic case on why our jury system is so unpredictable. The wrong person won!


It all depends on the rules. Most posting here define "better" as someone winning without having a concern for the end effect of the game on others. Getting almost all the other players off the board without concern for the ultimate outcome apparently doesn't mean you won in this game.

It's not the NFL, but more like real life. In real life, we have to use some caution about who we anger. "Going postal" is a term that evolved in more recent times from someone not seeing the full impact of his or her actions on another who is not seen as anything but an obstacle. You're not a good manager if you've cut costs so effectively one of your cuts helps eliminate other processing costs with a gun.

There may be a lesson in this one that applies to the world we all live in.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

phrelin said:


> It all depends on the rules. Most posting here define "better" as someone winning without having a concern for the end effect of the game on others. Getting almost all the other players off the board without concern for the ultimate outcome apparently doesn't mean you won in this game.
> 
> It's not the NFL, but more like real life. In real life, we have to use some caution about who we anger. "Going postal" is a term that evolved in more recent times from someone not seeing the full impact of his or her actions on another who is not seen as anything but an obstacle. You're not a good manager if you've cut costs so effectively one of your cuts helps eliminate other processing costs with a gun.
> 
> There may be a lesson in this one that applies to the world we all live in.


Survivor is in no way like real life, it's 100% a game. Jaison mentioned the same idea in the reunion show & he was so wrong. You have to eliminate your opponents to win a game. The jury was to caught up in him as a person to realize how well he played. The one quote we hear every year in every show like this is, "It's not personal, it's just a game." Russell did everything Survivor is based on: Outwit, Outplay, Outlast. Natalie did nothing, just like Mick.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

fluffybear said:


> I'm sorry but I could not disagree with you more.


Seriously? That was the best played game ever.



sigma1914 said:


> Who was better?


Nobody......


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Survivor is in no way like real life, it's 100% a game. Jaison mentioned the same idea in the reunion show & he was so wrong. You have to eliminate your opponents to win a game. The jury was to caught up in him as a person to realize how well he played. The one quote we hear every year in every show like this is, "It's not personal, it's just a game." Russell did everything Survivor is based on: Outwit, Outplay, Outlast. Natalie did nothing, just like Mick.


I'm sorry, but the goal in the game is to win. The winner is the player who wins. and who when you consider *all the rules* is the best player. If you lose you missed something important to becoming the winner.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Natalie played the game well because she aligned herself early with the right person. Everyone gunned him down in the end and she was left standing .. Good for her.

No doubt, Russell was the most entertaining player ever on Survivor. He even exceeded the first-season antics of Richard Hatch.


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## mhendrixsr (Nov 17, 2007)

I think maybe it's ironic that Russell (who probably played the hardest and most obsessed with winning game we've ever seen) seemed to be surrounded with mostly passive personalities. It seems that one of the most basic rules of Survivor would be to identify the strong players and vote them out. In this instance, any even slightly aggressive player got voted out immediately. This continually left Russell in charge. Yes, Russell was indeed the most focused player we've ever seen... even constantly on the prowl while the others were often laying in bed. Even in the finale, Russell wasn't able to "enjoy" the game or process in any way and continued to show his ruthless, obsessed personality even as Nat was being handed her check. One of the things that keeps Survivor interesting is the many personalities involved and the many ways there are to play the game. And, I admit that Russell took us to a new level. However, most of us really don't like to see the most ruthless and obsessed person win... whether it's at work or in a reality show. So Nat won... good for her.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Vecepia (sorry if I spelled it wrong) version 2.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

dave29 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Russel was ht best Survivor in the history of the game, even though he was arrogant at the end, he should have won


I agree with you 10000000000000000000000%.

I was surprised how arrogant he was after they voted Brett off and he was talking out loud to Natalie and Mick about how he had already won. It actually made me say to my wife "what a jerk." But I still think he should have won. His reaction on the reunion show was classic. You could see how visible upset he was. I'm sure he'll be a "villain" on this spring's edition.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

Indiana627 said:


> I'm sure he'll be a "villain" on this spring's edition.


Unfortunately, can't happen, though I agree he would be a good fit. They're already filming #20, so Russel couldn't be there. Pretty sure production costs had an impact, they started #20 as soon as the players from #19 left...they're filming in Samoa again. That way most of the "sets" are already built, the film crew and support are already in place, and all the necessary permissions from the host country have been taken care of. Gotta pay for those HD field cameras some how....


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## jerry downing (Mar 7, 2004)

A couple of years ago, Sugar played well but POed the jury and did not get a vote. Russell also POed the jury and did not win.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

elaclair said:


> Unfortunately, can't happen, though I agree he would be a good fit. They're already filming #20, so Russel couldn't be there. Pretty sure production costs had an impact, they started #20 as soon as the players from #19 left...they're filming in Samoa again. That way most of the "sets" are already built, the film crew and support are already in place, and all the necessary permissions from the host country have been taken care of. Gotta pay for those HD field cameras some how....


S20 is already in the can. It was slated for Aug/Sep with Sep 20 as the end of the approx window. S20 beagan no earlier than 2 weeks after S19 ended. In any event,


Spoiler



Russel is rumored to be there.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

Russell deserved to win. The idiots on the jury were just too bitter to give him the money. At least he won the 100k from the fan vote.

Great season with a bummer ending.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Think about the slogan and how it applies to Russell.

Outwit:

He did a half-a**ed job of that. By the end, everyone knew he was pulling the strings. He DID outwit the members of the jury, but he did it in such a way that he outwitted HIMSELF. He was so arrogant about how far ahead he was thinking on Day One - and it's true, he was - that he forgot to think ahead to Day Thirty Nine. All he knew (accurately) was that Brett was the biggest threat.

Remember what he said about Natalie - "What has she done? Nothing!". Russell, you hit the target but missed the bullseye. Yeah, she did nothing - compared to the way you po'd all the jury members. By sitting back and correctly seeing that strong women get voted off fast, she could plead "self defense" without having to have instigated the backstabbing.

Outplay:

He did that - but that was more in getting Shambo to flip and also remember how Natalie went *right to work* trying to get Galu to knock off one of their own right after the merge.

Outlast:

He did that - winning the last challenge when he had to. But, by then, he had too many enemies.

In the end, outwitting himself was his undoing. Russell had the same problem that my ex-wife has. He can't step out of his own shoes and thinks that everyone MUST think like him since he's so successful. My ex can't see things from someone else's point of view. Russell couldn't fathom that he personally po'd someone off so much that they wouldn't give him credit for his strategic moves - and he did that to just about everyone.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

I was pretty happy with the outcome. I always watch the show from a "non-believers" perspective. By that I mean that I assume they are trying to make me see what they want me to see and not necessarily what is acutally going on. Obviously, the intent of the producers this season was to capitialize on the marketability of the Russel character and all the focus on him limited the visibility of what the others were doing. 

With the actual physical survival aspect being almost a non-factor anymore, the game is really entirely a social/political game. As such, Natalie did a far better job of reaching the end in such a way as to get the most jury votes so she deserved to win. She "played" Russel by letting him believe that he was playing her.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

djlong said:


> Outplay:
> 
> He did that - but that was more in getting Shambo to flip and also remember how Natalie went *right to work* trying to get Galu to knock off one of their own right after the merge.


Ah, you are forgetting Russell's BIGGEST outplay of all .. The hidden immunity idols. No doubt he would have been booted without the HI in play.

Glad he got to keep one and take home with him, though.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

say-what said:


> S20 is already in the can. It was slated for Aug/Sep with Sep 20 as the end of the approx window. S20 beagan no earlier than 2 weeks after S19 ended. In any event,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I was also under the impression Season 20 started shooting shortly after 19 ended. I can't imagine Russel was not part of it, and based on his reaction in the reunion show I'd bet he did not make it to the end.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pfp said:


> I was also under the impression Season 20 started shooting shortly after 19 ended. I can't imagine Russel was not part of it, and based on his reaction in the reunion show I'd bet he did not make it to the end.


Maybe .. For all we know, Russell was playing us


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

djlong said:


> Think about the slogan and how it applies to Russell.
> 
> Outwit:
> 
> ...


I was one of those rooting for Russell. But I have to agree with you that the man was too obsessed with winning to take the time to look at the whole picture.

For that alone, Nat deserved the win ... she, at least, followed a strategy that didn't involve stroking her own ego.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

If Russell is in the next season does anyone think he will learn from his mistakes, or is he so convinced he did everything correctly that he will suffer the same fate?

I really enjoyed watching someone play like him, finding all of those idols (two without clues) makes you interesting all by itself.

Just glad that the next season starts so soon.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Maybe .. For all we know, Russell was playing us


He may have been mad because he failed to become the first person to win twice.:lol:


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## IndyMichael (Jan 25, 2003)

scottandregan said:


> If Russell is in the next season...


I'll miss my second season of Survivor, I could not stand Russell to the point I quit watching.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Russell's problem was that he let his puppets KNOW they were being puppets. He forgot/didn't know how to be subtle. Unlike Yul in Survivor China who manipulated people without rubbing their noses in it. 

He's not the best player because he played everyone great EXCEPT the other players, and that is PART of the game--to play THEM.

Everyone is the main character in their own story in their head, and when they cast their vote, they're making a vote that fits into THEIR story, not those who're asking for their votes. He couldn't figure that out, and didn't know how to present himself in such a way where they'd want to give him their votes. THAT is the end goal of the game, and he couldn't do it.

He's not the sole survivor. He's the last loser.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

scottandregan said:


> If Russell is in the next season does anyone think he will learn from his mistakes, or is he so convinced he did everything correctly that he will suffer the same fate?
> 
> I really enjoyed watching someone play like him, finding all of those idols (two without clues) makes you interesting all by itself.
> 
> Just glad that the next season starts so soon.


Thing is, if he is on, he'd have both an advantage, and disadvantage. He's familiar with the island, and the other players won't know him as they hadn't seen the season, unless someone else from Samoa is there. He would be able to adjust his game.

But also, wouldn't he be weaker than the others? Even if there were two weeks between, he'd just gone through 39 days of it, the others would be fresh.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

He wouldn't know the island. The seasons were filmed in different camp locations in the same area, but not specifically the same places.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> But also, wouldn't he be weaker than the others? Even if there were two weeks between, he'd just gone through 39 days of it, the others would be fresh.


I believe Amanda made it to the final 3 in two consecutive seasons when she was in the China episode and then the Fans vs Favs, which I think filmed not too long after China wrapped, so she too would have the same disadvantage, but it didn't seem to hinder her physically. She must hold the record for playing Survivor the longest (78 days).


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> I believe Amanda made it to the final 3 in two consecutive seasons when she was in the China episode and then the Fans vs Favs, which I think filmed not too long after China wrapped, so she too would have the same disadvantage, but it didn't seem to hinder her physically. She must hold the record for playing Survivor the longest (78 days).


According to Wikipedia, filming ended in China on August 2, 2007, filming of Fans vs. Favorites started October 29. So that's about 3 months apart.

Samoa ended filming July 19th, the next season started in August.


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