# Charlie Chat Summary 12-13-04



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

*Summary written by Chris Blount. Text is Copyright 2004, DBSTalk.Com. 
Do not copy without permission.*

Welcome to the Charlie Chat. Hosted by Charlie Ergen and Jim Defranco.

Eric, Vice President of Programming is on set tonight.

*Programming update*

151 Local markets now on satellite.

Local market #152 will be Meridian, MS coming December 16th

Locals coming at the beginning of 2005

Billings, Montana
Casper, Wyoming
Erie, Pennsylvania
Gainesville, Florida
Great Falls, Montana
Minot/Bismarck, North Dakota
Rapid City, South Dakota
Twin Falls, Idaho

*Sports*
Available now - Comcast Sports Net West available in the AT 60 package and above.
Home of the Sacramento Kings. Will be on channel 409

Comcast Sports Net Chicago Available April 1 on channel 429. Home of the Bulls, Blackhawks, White Sox and Cubs.

*International Launches *

SPT - Portuguese. Available now channel 817. $19.99 a month.

Great Wall TV Package - $29.99 a month containing 17 Chinese language channels.

German TV - $9.99 a month. Channel 725

*Sirius Satellite Radio promotions*

Get Sirius in your car for $99.99 - Car kit included. Call 1-800-861-3404
Charlie says there is a limited supply of radios so order today.

*HDTV Bundle Deal *

$999 gets you a DVR-921 and a 34" HD monitor. Half off the HD pack for 12 months. Expires 1-31-05

HD Pak is $9.99 a month.

*Charlie talked about the Satellite Home Viewers act. *

He was pleased that Congress got the job done. Extends the copyright so Superstations will remain on satellite (Yeah!).

Dish must convert all of the 2 dish customers to 1 dish by May of 2006

Copyright fees will increase for distants and Superstations.

They plugged the Club Dish offer. Nuff said about that. 

They plugged the DVR and how it changes the way you watch TV. Nothing we didn't already know. 

*Question time!*

*Call in question from Chris * - How will MPEG 4 affect current receivers? What about the DVR-942?

*Answer* - MPEG 4 is in development. Products will appear around this time next year. Maybe sooner. No affect on current receivers except old receivers won't be able to receiver newer programming. The 942 will be shown at the CES in January. Similar to the 921. Smaller chassis. A little less recording time. Unit will be out in the Spring.

*Call in question from Ken * - Is Dish going to have Video On Demand (VOD) Service?

*Answer* - Eventually Dish will upgrade DVR customers with resident movies on the hard drive available for viewing. Should be available in the spring on a limited basis.

*E-Mail question * - What about FitTV and Oxygen?

*Michael Schwimmer answer * - Yes we have heard of FitTV. We will look into it. Oxygen is still getting negotiated.

*Call in question from Eric * - Is there any chance of adding English language international channels?

*Michael Schwimmer answer * - Yes. We are always looking for creative ways of doing things. (basically, they will look into it).

Special guests from Animal Planet. Nothing too exciting.

Trivia question - On what Dish channel can you find Emergency Vets?

Will from Chico, CA answered the trivia question. Channel 184 - Animal Planet. Big surprise.

*Call in question from Richard * - What about Internet over the satellite?

*Answer * - We have a satellite launching on Thursday that is capable of some Internet. We hope to have a product out by next Summer.

*Call in question from Donald * - What about College Sports Television?

*Michael Schwimmer answer * - We are working on getting those channels. Be patient. Hopefully more news on the next chat.

*Call in question * - What about more HD like Voom?

*Answer* - Charlie says Dish carries most of it and what they don't carry is mostly upconverted movies anyways. Should be an explosion late next year of HD content on Dish.

Next Charlie Chat is January 10th!


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Hey Chris, what I got out of the MPEG4/HD questions is that Charlie will not be adding any more HD channels based on MPEG2. Going forward, all HD will be based on MPEG4. So no new HD until they have an MPEG4 box, which will not be until last 2005. Comments?

P.S. Oh, Thanks so much for tonight and the quick transcript!


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

bavaria72 said:


> Hey Chris, what I got out of the MPEG4/HD questions is that Charlie will not be adding any more HD channels based on MPEG2. Going forward, all HD will be based on MPEG4. So no new HD until they have an MPEG4 box, which will not be until last 2005. Comments?
> 
> P.S. Oh, Thanks so much for tonight and the quick transcript!


You are correct about that. Sorry I missed it.


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## Chris Walker (May 19, 2004)

Chris Blount
[B said:


> Charlie talked about the Satellite Home Viewers act. [/B]
> 
> He was pleased that Congress got the job done. Extends the copyright so Superstations will remain on satellite (Yeah!).
> 
> ...


One of the only interesting points about the show, yet he doesn't go into detail about the distants or supers. I would have thought this would be a big discussion tonight since obviously a lot of letters are going to be sent out with possible cutoffs or options of dropping locals or distants.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

No new basic programming seemed to be the theme or did I miss something?


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Well, they are adding some more (fairly expensive) International programming - China, German, and Portuguese. Don't even ask about HD, going to be one hell of a mess for the next 12 months.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

just to add - comcast chicago ... still could be "by april 1, 2005" (not just "april 1, 2005") 

"By" is the key.. for chicago people (as was mentioned at Retailer Chat - by April 1st is the latest.. but who knows .. maybe they can do it soooner.. time will show)


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Well, I live in that green circle of an example map for the "Significantly viewed" channels map. Even if Dish did offer Baltimore locals to me here in the DC DMA, it'd require a 105 SuperDish. 

I doubt Dish will pay for the SuperDish.
I bet they'll try to Charge for two locals, if we ask for them.
I can see them charging for both locals for 921 OTA guides.
I can also see that even if I'm grade A for Balt (I am) that Dish may not offer them to me, since Comcast doesn't.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

What does D* offer there?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Chris Blount said:


> Copyright fees will increase for distants and Superstations.


They are already over priced now that they no longer let customers bundle them together. Directv charges $9 for east/west nets, Dish is charging $11.98 (if you get both).


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

One thing that Charlie was wrong about on the 942 - it has exactly the same size hard drive as the 921 has (250GB), so it should have just about exactly the same amount of recording space available, unless Dish reserves more of that space for useless features like their VOD concept.

And, as far as I know right now, the 942 is NOT MPEG-4 compatible, and while I haven't seen the inside of one, the chassis is much smaller, so there's a lot less room inside for upgrades later.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

So nobody should buy anymore hd receivers untill they come out with a mpeg4 receiver, this time next year. We don't even know how they are going to replace these existing 921s and 811 receivers. My bet is that the new mpeg4 receivers will be lease only and that is how Charlie will get around this. IF you want more hd ,you have to lease. This will further the transition from you own it , to you lease it. Oh they might let you trade in your old hd receivers and receive a 25.00 credit . Imagine the money lost on this deal! I can't imagine why anyone should take Dish up on the 921 now ,no matter how low they sell it for. This sucks since I would have liked to by that 921/hd 34"tv bundle for 999.00. Now I am not going to buy anymore receivers , or do anymore upgrades until this mpeg4 transition is over.:eek2:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I liked the new programming offering from Dish- The Clock channel. It seems that it will be in HDTV? The analog version seemed far more engaging programming than the digital version. I wonder if the analog version will cost more? It could be that if we don't subscribe to the clock channel, our sat guide data will not have times anymore. OK, maybe that will just be affecting the 921 on the next software release.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Right there with you Mike! Was going to buy a 921 from Costco this week but not now. Oh well.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Well he said the *MSRP* will be higher than the 921. So now I don't think the 942 will be leaseable.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Chris Walker said:


> One of the only interesting points about the show, yet he doesn't go into detail about the distants or supers. I would have thought this would be a big discussion tonight since obviously a lot of letters are going to be sent out with possible cutoffs or options of dropping locals or distants.


I don't believe they know what they will be doing. They are waiting for the FCC to draft the rules to go along with the new laws, and to publish the Significantly Viewed list due out within 60 days of enactment.

Not a bad idea. SHVERA is one issue, how the FCC impliments it is another. It's all in the interpretation. The issue of what letters need to be sent by when is another one that doesn't need to be delt with until January.

JL


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

justalurker said:


> I don't believe they know what they will be doing...


Put that in 4" headlines. They really don't know. They know they need to go MPEG4, they need new boxes, they want more HD content but when your installed base is 10 million, it is damn tough to chart new ground. Looks like we are on the fringes for a few more years. Once again, why even bother with the 942?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

bavaria72 said:


> Put that in 4" headlines. They really don't know.


I was referring to locals/distants/sigificantly viewed where the law has passed but the rules have yet to be written.

HD is an entirely different problem. It is a shame that their big fall 2003 plans for HD won't come close to coming true until late 2005 or 2006. 

JL


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## NoMoRumours (Jan 27, 2004)

So how much doe sthe Siruius in your car receiver usually cost?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Higher than the old MSRP of the 921 or higher than the NEW MSRP of the 921 that it is currently at right now?

Also what about those people that are in a Dish500 market that might want the ''significantly viewed" stations that are in a SuperDish market? What about those that are in a 105 SuperDish market that want "significantly viewed" stations in a 121 SuperDish market and vice versa? Seems like a problem to me for some in those markets. 

Those that are in a SuperDish market wanting a "significantly viewed" station that is in a Dish500 market (on 110 or 119) would simply be able to receive it with their SuperDish.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Jacob S said:


> Higher than the old MSRP of the 921 or higher than the NEW MSRP of the 921 that it is currently at right now?


They said higher than the new MSRP, so it could be $999 again.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I dont see Dish leasing a receiver that expensive unless the consumer was willing to pay a big upfront free or able to have an output to four different receivers which will make it more feasible for Dish Network in some situations. The 942 would be feasible for many seeing that a lot of people wouldn't at this time have more than two HD televisions.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

I want to be able to time shift HD and was going to buy the 941 at Costco. But based on the above noted change to MPEG 4 and the stated fact that you will need an MPEG 4 box to get new Dish HD channels, I really can not see buying any new Dish boxes now. 

It seems the most reasonable option now is to buy the LG 3410A PVR with OTA tuner built in or wait a short time for the Sony version. (The specs on the Sony indicated a 30 hour record time vs 12.5 for LG). Hate to go with an OTA (and cable) only PVR but I can E-bay it when Dish comes out with a MPEG 4 PVR. 

Mr. E / E* really disappoint here.


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## groomsy (Apr 27, 2004)

they want 999 for that HD ****? i already have a TV thats HD ready, so i am not paying **** to Dish to have HD, i'll pay the 9.99 a month but nothing to hook it up as it takes no effort in turning it on, i'll goto Cable before i pay almost 1k for it


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> Also what about those people that are in a Dish500 market that might want the ''significantly viewed" stations that are in a SuperDish market? What about those that are in a 105 SuperDish market that want "significantly viewed" stations in a 121 SuperDish market and vice versa? Seems like a problem to me for some in those markets.


Lots of good questions. I'm sure E* is pondering them as well.

Fortunately Significantly Viewed is an optional service, so where conflicts arise E* does not have to offer the channels. I suspect they will limit themselves at first to offering Dish500 major networks (ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC, and possibly WB/UPN) in neighboring communities. At the end of 2005 the landscape changes some with E10 adding more spotbeams and the "one dish" rule bringing the "lesser viewed" channels in from the wings. There are rumors that many markets may move from SuperDish to Dish500 at that time as well but the math seems improbable.

I live in a SuperDish105 market where portions would receive a SuperDish121 market as Significantly Viewed and portions of that market and two Dish500 markets would see my market's signals as Significantly Viewed. I don't believe similar situations are uncommon.

It will work out. There are still many months for E* to work through the details. Even if they wanted to launch tomorrow they couldn't due to the delays built in to the new law.

JL


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> I liked the new programming offering from Dish- The Clock channel. It seems that it will be in HDTV? The analog version seemed far more engaging programming than the digital version. I wonder if the analog version will cost more? It could be that if we don't subscribe to the clock channel, our sat guide data will not have times anymore. OK, maybe that will just be affecting the 921 on the next software release.


Pretty funny  I'm looking forward to time shifting in both analog and digital. What a time I'll have.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Dish has really F*#KED UP.
With MPEG 4, the 6000, 811, & 921 receivers become trash. SO my $1000 921 becomes useless in 2 years. It will have become a $42.00 a month to use unit!! 
Also, who in their right mind would buy a 942, if 6 months later it is also obsolete??? What a waste of R & D by Dish. 
ALso, by the time Dish adds more HD content:
1. Voom will have DOUBLED the HD on their service as well as have a MPEG 4 compatible DVR!!! 
2. Directv will have 2 more sats up & start spot beaming HD locals to top markets as well as probably also add lots of other HD channels.
3. Dish will have pissed off all the 811 & 921 customers who are, by default being early adopters of HD, the big spenders with programming.

Time to sell any stock in Dish NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Orcatek (May 1, 2003)

VOD scares me. They will download movies to my disk to be available for viewing. I have no free space for that. What are they going to delete to make room for these movies? How much of my drive do they take? Yikes?

I believe the 942 is being designed to allow a MPEG4 upgrade board, just like the 6000 got the upgrade boards with the last change.

There is a good chance that this would work with the 921 too. Firewire or USB2 could also be used to feed data to an external converter to keep the devices going. I have to believe that this is in the works.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

It would make complete sense if the 942 is MPEG4 capable. The prototype box Scott over at SatGuys saw was not. How much re-engineering would it take to change the chip set to support MPEG4? Software alone would probably delay it unless E* had already decided to go with MPEG4 when they begain development of the 942.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

If Charlie, Jim and Michael were a vaudiville act, the hook would have come out and yanked them off the stage. Their attempts at humor were extremely lame. The "infomercials" for Club Dish and DVR's just wasted time. (I recorded the chat on my 721 and used the forward skip option to zip through them and the segment from Discovery  -- unfortunately, I failed to extend the record time of the broadcast so lost the last callin segment  )
It appears that Dish is betting its future on foreign channels. While I recognize that this is a good way of attracting a large number of customers, it at the same time is alienating the existing customer base by failing to add popular channels like Oxygen and Fit TV, and failing to expand HD programmiing. 
I was glad to see that they allowed the question on the 942 and MPEG-4, and gave some insight into the time frame in which both would appear on the scene. I would hope that they would be smart enough to have an MPEG-4 decoder in the 942. We'll just have to wait and see what the spec's say.
As to all the weeping and wailing over the MPEG-4 implementation: correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere did they say that ALL programming would be shifted from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, only that future additions would be MPEG-4 encoded, requiring a new box. So those of us with 811's and 921's won't be completely in the cold. They'll still work with the existing programming lineup.
Regarding the Sirius offer: If they're offering the Jensen CK100SR plug and play receiver, it carries an MSRP of $143.87, and Sirius is offering a $30 rebate on it (this from their web site). On the other hand, it could be either an Audiovox or JVC receiver, since I recall seeing a remote when they showed the package. At any rate, the MSRP of these products with car kit also approaches $150, before a $30 rebate. This means that the offer is a good one, giving you a car-ready Sirius receiver for $100 after rebate, plus 3 months free programming with subscription. Not a bad deal (and, WOW!! in 2006, you'll be able to hear Howard! :lol: )


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## wcswett (Jan 7, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> One thing that Charlie was wrong about on the 942 - it has exactly the same size hard drive as the 921 has (250GB), so it should have just about exactly the same amount of recording space available, unless Dish reserves more of that space for useless features like their VOD concept.


My take is that DISH will be reserving more HD space for VOD, etc.



Mark Lamutt said:


> And, as far as I know right now, the 942 is NOT MPEG-4 compatible, and while I haven't seen the inside of one, the chassis is much smaller, so there's a lot less room inside for upgrades later.


Wouldn't an MPEG-4 unit record MORE HD content per gigabyte for the same reason that the satellite can transmit more? Clearly the move to MPEG-4 means no more hardware for me in 2005.

--- WCS


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I had an HD receiver I got cheap at an auction and sold it. Why did I want it when we don't get locals in HD OTA yet, plus I wasn't paying $10 extra a month for HD channels of Discovery, ESPN, TNT, Bravo, HDNet, and HDMovies, when I never watch those channels anyway.

The main thing people want is the networks--ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox in HD to watch their sports and primetime shows.


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## wcswett (Jan 7, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> Also what about those people that are in a Dish500 market that might want the ''significantly viewed" stations that are in a SuperDish market? What about those that are in a 105 SuperDish market that want "significantly viewed" stations in a 121 SuperDish market and vice versa? Seems like a problem to me for some in those markets.


It's a bigger problem than that, since many locals are split between 119/110 and the wing sats as well (Atlanta), at least until May 2006. This is my situation, and I have a significantly viewed station (per local cable) in Chattanooga that's on 105. That's four sats there, so all I need is to find another one on 121 to make it a five-pack.

--- WCS


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Orcatek said:


> VOD scares me. They will download movies to my disk to be available for viewing. I have no free space for that. What are they going to delete to make room for these movies? How much of my drive do they take? Yikes?


Dish already has a large chunk of your hard drive reserved for their exclusive use.

I was surprised no mention of the demise of CNN/FN / CNN International.


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

Knowing ultimately that the only proof is when we actually see the channel on the air - I take it from Mr Schwimmer's comments that they are very close to a deal with Oxygen.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Here is what the future choices will be:

DishNetwork: for foreign programs, shopping , & Bingo
DirecTV: for sports nuts
Voom: for HD enthusiasts


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Here is what the future choices will be:
> 
> DishNetwork: for foreign programs, shopping , & Bingo
> DirecTV: for sports nuts
> Voom: for HD enthusiasts


Ouch. That one hit close to home. A frightful look into the future?


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## NightRyder (Jan 29, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Here is what the future choices will be:
> Voom: for HD enthusiasts


Voom has no future in it's current incarnation. If it isn't sold this comming year it will be DOA by mid 2006. No money left.

NightRyder


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

My rant -

I agree with Tahoerob, when HD subs add the cost of new or upgrading equipment which seems to be needed about every 2 years the monthly cost far exceeds the price "advertised" as the monthly cost. Add to that for the first year plus all early adoptors of new HD equipment are beta testers - it is really a sad state of affairs. About 2 -3 years ago we were told if you upgraded your 6000 boxes you could recieve "all future HD channels". Now our 1 year old 811s seem to have a limited life as they will not be able to get the new HD channels starting end of 2005 or early 2006 (and no new HD channels until then). So if we want the new HD channels from Dish we will need to buy/rent? new MPEG4 boxes to replace our 2 811s and wait more than a year.
I feed sorry for early 921 subs who spent $999 because they whan to record HD. They are in the same position as 811 people execpt at a higher investment cost. I wanted to be able to record HD and was waiting for the beta test period (first year of release) to be over before buying one. Now it just does not seem to be any reason to invest in a 921. 

Before some one says why don't I drop Dish - let me say I have been a Dish sub for 9 + years, have a large investment in Dish equipment, pay over a $100 a month in program costs and even have stock in E*. Also I am grandfathered for distant channels. Up to this point these factors have tipped to balance for Dish but now the balance is in question. I do not hate Dish, but might sell my stock. However it appears to me that E* has HD and HD subs way down on its list of concerns while other services seem to have HD much higher on thier lists. Given the digital TV sales I believe Dish is making a big mistake. 

End of rant.


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

Link said:


> The main thing people want is the networks--ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox in HD to watch their sports and primetime shows.


Exactly! Charlie said, "Write your congressman. Dish is ready to IMMEDIATELY provide HD Distant Nets, where locals are not available." Not one word last night, except some comment about locals having three years. Three years??? :nono:

But I now know all about cats, dogs, spiders, and long winded vets, that don't know when to shut up!


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> One thing that Charlie was wrong about on the 942 - it has exactly the same size hard drive as the 921 has (250GB), so it should have just about exactly the same amount of recording space available, unless Dish reserves more of that space for useless features like their VOD concept.
> 
> And, as far as I know right now, the 942 is NOT MPEG-4 compatible, and while I haven't seen the inside of one, the chassis is much smaller, so there's a lot less room inside for upgrades later.


Indeed, then there's this:

"The 942 will be shown at the CES in January. Similar to the 921. Smaller chassis. A little less recording time. Unit will be out in the Spring."

I wanted someone to add: "Unit will work Spring 2006"


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

This is why I have said from time to time that Dish Network needs to make ALL of their receivers upgradable from hard drives to tuners, memory, etc. Technology is changing rapidly.


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## groomsy (Apr 27, 2004)

DirecTV: For Men
Dishnetwork: For Women
Voom: for losers


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

clapple said:


> Exactly! Charlie said, "Write your congressman. Dish is ready to IMMEDIATELY provide HD Distant Nets, where locals are not available." Not one word last night, except some comment about locals having three years. Three years??? :nono:
> 
> But I now know all about cats, dogs, spiders, and long winded vets, that don't know when to shut up!


The law did pass, but the local stations still have a couple of years before they have to worry about distant digitals. There is really no way for Dish to speed this up, the way the legistlation is written the stations have a grace period, then the FCC has to do a study to come up with rules on the whole thing.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Perception is more important than reality...



tahoerob said:


> Here is what the future choices will be:
> 
> DishNetwork: for foreign programs, shopping , & Bingo
> DirecTV: for sports nuts
> Voom: for HD enthusiasts


What sports does DirecTV carry that Dish doesn't?
-NFL OUT OF MARKET games played on Sunday only subject to local blackouts
-NCAA Tourny B-Ball Out of Market for the first three rounds subject to local blackouts.
-CSN Chicago until at the latest 4/1/05.
-College Sports TV
-Fuel

What sports does Dish have that DirecTV doesn't?
-English Primier League Soccer 
-Inernational channels with Soccer from around the globe.
-GOL TV (Soccer)
-1 additional Horse Racing Channel
-Several Cricket PPV Tournaments a year
-Rugby PPV events.

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Shopping Channels:

DirecTV has....
1) America's Store
2) HSN
3) QVC
4) Shop at Home
5) ShopNBC
6) Gems Shopping Network
7) Celebrity Shopping Network
8) Direct Shopping Network
9) Jewelry TV
---I'm sure I'm missing some since I can't find an up-to-date list. Some have been added since DBSTalk's list was last updated.

Dish Network has...
1) Catalog TV *
2) Auction TV	
3) The Men's Channel	
4) TV Outlet Mall	
5) "Stuff" TV
6) Home Shopping Network	
7) Healthy Living Channel
8) Shop at Home
9) The Beauty and Fashion Channel
10) Quality Value Convenience	QVC	
11) Jewelry Television by ACN
12) Shop NBC
13) iShop (Gem Shopping Network)

See ya
Tony


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Tony, I believe DirecTV has EPL soccer.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

> Several Cricket PPV Tournaments a year


Actually DirecTV has Cricket now, and the prize is MUCH cheaper then Dish Networks, I believe the entire season is $99 while on Dish Network its $199 for a test (I believe that is the correct terminology)


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks for the corrections guys. Since I am not a DirecTV sub, I don't know the details about these things.

The point is that there is not as much difference in the two services in coverage as some may lead others to believe. The average joe sports fan (who doesn't live in chicago until at the latest 4/1/05) will be just as happy with either service. The rabbid NFL fan willing to spend a ton of money on OUT OF MARKET > SUNDAY < NFL games is the only one that would absolutely want to go with Direct.

See ya
Tony


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> Perception is more important than reality...
> 
> What sports does DirecTV carry that Dish doesn't?
> -NFL OUT OF MARKET games played on Sunday only subject to local blackouts
> ...


You actually mostly prove my point with above. Dish has MORE shopping & the stupid BINGO!. Also, look at Dish's sports exclusives..... FOREIGN based....


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## Shellback X 23 (Sep 19, 2004)

NoMoRumours said:


> So how much doe sthe Siruius in your car receiver usually cost?


Seruius in the car is $12.99 per month. Last I saw was about $100 to buy plus the car install kit, not with the install kit like E* is offering.

XM in the car is $9.99 per month on 2 year contract, paid up front, and if you want a second receiver the second XM is $6.99 per month. My car has XM built in by GM, but I think a receiver would be about $100.

I have not herd of an offer by Seruius for a second receiver.


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

tahoerob said:


> You actually mostly prove my point with above. Dish has MORE shopping & the stupid BINGO!. Also, look at Dish's sports exclusives..... FOREIGN based....


Rob,

I was under this impression as well, until I looked:

http://www.directvsports.com/Subscriptions/

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/ppv/sports_events/sports_packages/index.shtml

DirecTV has the upper hand with NFL and March Madness exclusives. Dish does not seem to have any exclusives w.r.t. packages. Though maybe the cricket fans are happier with Dish.

Exclusive HD content may be another story...

Joe


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

Capmeister said:


> Indeed, then there's this:
> 
> "The 942 will be shown at the CES in January. Similar to the 921. Smaller chassis. A little less recording time. Unit will be out in the Spring."
> 
> I wanted someone to add: "Unit will work Spring 2006"


Yeah, keep in mind that the 921 was a "Best of CES" award winner for 2003 (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). Almost 2 years later, and it's still not finished, and now w/o the firewire.


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

> Charlie talked about the Satellite Home Viewers act.
> 
> He was pleased that Congress got the job done. Extends the copyright so Superstations will remain on satellite (Yeah!).
> 
> Dish must convert all of the 2 dish customers to 1 dish by May of 2006


Why is converting 2 dish owners to 1 dish an issue? Other than having an extra wart on the house, is there a technical issue?


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

hambone said:


> Why is converting 2 dish owners to 1 dish an issue? Other than having an extra wart on the house, is there a technical issue?


No, the wart is not the problem. The local stations that are on the wings, mostly religious and ethnics, felt like they were being handled as stepchildren. The claim was that most people wouldn't want the second dish therefore they lost viewership. They brought that argument to Washington and won the argument. It's that simple.


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

Bobby94928 said:


> No, the wart is not the problem. The local stations that are on the wings, mostly religious and ethnics, felt like they were being handled as stepchildren. The claim was that most people wouldn't want the second dish therefore they lost viewership. They brought that argument to Washington and won the argument. It's that simple.


So, if I understand correctly, that would mean either everyone has a Superdish capable of getting the fringe sats, or move all locals to 110/119 where there's not enough room. Is that correct? My locals are on 110/119, so it doesn't impact me, but I have friends who are impacted and they were pissed at first, although they were happy just to get locals.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

No it just means that all local for a given market must be on one dish. All youy other sat services still can be on different (and seperate) dishes.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Hey since the 921 is basically a computer, could they come out with an upgrade card to retrofit them to be MPEG4 capable, or is it a motherboard issue that can't be changed?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> I liked the new programming offering from Dish- The Clock channel. It seems that it will be in HDTV? The analog version seemed far more engaging programming than the digital version. I wonder if the analog version will cost more? It could be that if we don't subscribe to the clock channel, our sat guide data will not have times anymore. OK, maybe that will just be affecting the 921 on the next software release.


That was a gag. I'm sure!


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Some have been added since DBSTalk's list was last updated.


Nope Tony, all shopping channels are listed, other then the upcoming demises and the foreign channels D* added recently the channel line up is up to date.



> Seruius in the car is $12.99 per month. Last I saw was about $100 to buy plus the car install kit, not with the install kit like E* is offering.
> 
> XM in the car is $9.99 per month on 2 year contract, paid up front, and if you want a second receiver the second XM is $6.99 per month. My car has XM built in by GM, but I think a receiver would be about $100.
> 
> I have not herd of an offer by Seruius for a second receiver.


There are no contracts with XM with whatsoever, if you prepay for two years you should get a discount and can cancel at anytime with no penalty and you'll get a prorated refund. With Sirius you're only bound to a contract if you prepay. A Sirius plug and play with receiver with a home or car kit and a year of service can be had for $150-$175 depending on various promos that are out there. Sirius also offers the same $6.99 for additional receivers.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks Steve. I was sure I read about two new paid programming channels recently.

The Dish list chart linked on the main page is definitely old, though. 

See ya
Tony


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

wcswett said:


> My take is that DISH will be reserving more HD space for VOD, etc.
> 
> Wouldn't an MPEG-4 unit record MORE HD content per gigabyte for the same reason that the satellite can transmit more? Clearly the move to MPEG-4 means no more hardware for me in 2005.
> 
> --- WCS


Certainly if the 942 isn't able to recieve mpeg-4 or cheaply upgradeable to mpeg-4, its a dead product and will not sell.


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Here is what the future choices will be:
> 
> DishNetwork: for foreign programs, shopping , & Bingo
> DirecTV: for sports nuts
> Voom: for HD enthusiasts


It is difficult to pickup anything East of 110 in Tahoe.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> So nobody should buy anymore hd receivers untill they come out with a mpeg4 receiver, this time next year. We don't even know how they are going to replace these existing 921s and 811 receivers. My bet is that the new mpeg4 receivers will be lease only and that is how Charlie will get around this. IF you want more hd ,you have to lease. This will further the transition from you own it , to you lease it. Oh they might let you trade in your old hd receivers and receive a 25.00 credit . Imagine the money lost on this deal! I can't imagine why anyone should take Dish up on the 921 now ,no matter how low they sell it for. This sucks since I would have liked to by that 921/hd 34"tv bundle for 999.00. Now I am not going to buy anymore receivers , or do anymore upgrades until this mpeg4 transition is over.:eek2:


Isn't Direct going to MPEG 4 and you will have to replace all of thier receivers as well?


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2004)

sgt940 said:


> Isn't Direct going to MPEG 4 and you will have to replace all of thier receivers as well?


Yep, and DirecTV will most likely charge a lot MORE than DISH Network for the upgrade. DirecTV doesn't have a good upgrade program like DISH does. Plus, with DirecTV you'll most likely have paid about $300 to get the HDTV receiver in the first place.


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## wcswett (Jan 7, 2003)

the_bear said:


> It is difficult to pickup anything East of 110 in Tahoe.


I have picked up DTV at 101 and Echo 3 at 61.5 from Monterey, CA with no problem. Echo 3 is low in the sky, so you have to have a line of sight that's clear of trees and mountains, and it's more prone to rain outages, but it can be received in the 70-80 signal strength range with an 18" dish and a clear sky. DTV's 101 is no problem at all.

--- WCS


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## Riker (Nov 30, 2004)

Something that has not been mentioned is that after July 1, 2005 the FCC has mandated that all digital tuners/HDTV recievers build their devices with content protection, aka "DRM" technologies. So all receivers mfg after this date will have to have this in them. Those that enjoy ripping their tivo recordings probably wont be able to and for those of you that stream conent over your home network will have need to get new equipment or rethink your cabling. Because from what I read the output must remain in the same form--Content protected show in-DVI out of HDTV receiver- DVI in of TV. You wont get a picture otherwise. My current problem is that I have DVI connection into my scaler then RGBHV to projector. Wont be able to do it this since my projector does not have DVI in. Id have to use the component out then into my scaler then get a convert to convert component to rgbhv and of course loose quality. Not sure about component video though having the content protection; haven't read that far into article at EFF or the actual mandate.
Any thoughts.
R


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

the_bear said:


> It is difficult to pickup anything East of 110 in Tahoe.


I actually live in Virginia now!
I used to live in Genoa, NV & before there near Zephyr Cove.

We are going to come skiing at the end of the month
:hurah: :hurah: :hurah:


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Couple of observations:

921 -
1. The 921 is currently $549. Buying just an OTA dvr system without satellite will set you back more than that. Yes, the 921 does have the $4.98 VoD fee, but you do not have to subscribe to the HD pack if you buy it outright, and you will still get HBOHD and ShowHD if you sub to either service. Also, you can get CBS-HD for the small fee. Granted, the 921 only has 1 OTA tuner(which is bemoaned rather loudly around here), but it's still a good buy. The HD-D*TiVo will set you back $1000 still. And still no V* DVR.
2. You can get an 811 pretty much free any number of ways. And they do work pretty good now. D* makes you pay $300 for an HD receiver. V* is $499, or $199 down and an extra $9.95 a month to lease it. Sure, unless you are a new customer, you have to lease it, but oh well. What are you going to do? It's still cheaper in the long run. Oh Yeah, D*'s HD pack is $10.99 whereas E*'s is $9.99 monthly.
3. All 3 companies will upgrade to MPEG4 within the next few years. And since it is still extremely early in the process(i.e. no one has actually even started to upgrade yet), all we are doing is pushing the old Micro$oft program of FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. We really have no idea what is going to happen and how, so maybe we could tone down the conjecture and rants until we actually have something concrete to actually ***** about.

Just my 2 cents.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I'll add to your two cents and make it 4 cents


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Click here if you want to hear the MPEG4 and 942 question and Charlies response. :grin:


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Ummm, uh......yeah, um....hmmmm............someone caught him off guard, no. Sounds like he was set up. Did you have anything to do with this, Scott?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Me? Why would I do anything like that?


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Scott, you are a naughty boy! Go to your room! !rolling


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Click here if you want to hear the MPEG4 and 942 question and Charlies response. :grin:


Niiiiice :lol:


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## mattb (Apr 29, 2002)

Yumm Yumm Yumm... Poor Charlie


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

God he sounds like Rain man.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

Larrystotler & BFG

You might want to check out Scott G post on SatelliteGuys site called "no name based recording for 921". It seems the only the 522 and "all future DVRs" will get NBR and the features that go with it like Dishpass. (Yes Charlie said the 921 would ... but what's new about that)

You are certainly entitled to you 2 or 4 cents or whatever. For my 2 cents it looks like the 921 will be a Dish step child that will ultimately work okay some day but will never be a first rate machine. Even so the 921 may be attractve to some people, if so, they should take advanage of the low price. 

And yes I am upset with Charlie/E* broken promises. At my advanced age I claim that right.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> God he sounds like Rain man.


Nah, Dustin Hoffman was a whole bunch more articulate.....


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm not trying to defend E*, it's just that $550 is a lot better deal than $1000 regardless of why it is that way. And, I now have a D*TiVo that I am trying to learn how to use so that I can troubleshoot them better and demonstrate them better since I am doing more D* installs now. Some of the things that the TiVo has are neat, but it has it's drawbacks. Once you turn off all the crap, it is not that bad, but I still think it is very slow, and it is not as good as all the TiVo users hype it up. Granted, I had to replace mine because there was something wrong with it from the start, but if they would combine the best features of both types of DVRs then we would really have a great product. And don't forget that TiVo is adding ads when you skip forward past the commercials after the first of the year, so that will probably annoy many people. D* is no saint when it comes to things they were supposed to do. They pissed off many a former P* customer with higher bills. Many P* custs said they never had a problem with it, but they had nothing but problems after being forced to switch to direct. And at least E* has a viable upgrade program(true you have to lease now). D*'s is horrible. I hooked up my brother with a 510 and 2 301s for free after D* refused to do anything to get him 2 more recievers after he was a good paying customer for 3 years.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I used to be a big E* cheerleader.. But I tell you .. It's frustrating that a new version of the software comes out for the Dishplayers (I have a 7200) that 'improves' the search capabilities BUT STILL DOESNT SOLVE THE SAVING/STANDARD TIME BUG THEY'VE HAD FOR *5* YEARS!!!

I'm saving up for an HDTV setup starting in January. They could *give* away the 921 and I still wouldn't take it because of all the bugs. That's why I'm switching. I want something that "just works" and I'm willing to pay to get it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I noticed that the replay has been trimmed down to an hour. I wonder what they trimmed. It wasn't the clock channel bit.

JL


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## chaddux (Oct 10, 2004)

justalurker said:


> I noticed that the replay has been trimmed down to an hour. I wonder what they trimmed. It wasn't the clock channel bit.
> 
> JL


I thought the original was an hour.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

The original was an hour. It ran over by like 3 minutes. I don't know if the server they use just drops the extra time off or it runs over then the Dish FYI program begins.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

chaddux said:


> I thought the original was an hour.


It was about an hour three minutes. They ran long.

JL


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

The whole thing is there. Nothing is cut out. It's just slightly time-compressed. This is a common thing used with movies even on HBO. If the movie is like 2 hrs 10 minutes, they can cram it down to a 2 hour time slot using time compression. They did this to Star Wars years ago.

The programs for this are now comparitavely cheap. Even my ATI video card TV recorder has one. Anything up to 5% compression (or expansion) is nearly imperceptible.

See ya
Tony


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## tcotter (Oct 19, 2004)

justalurker said:


> I noticed that the replay has been trimmed down to an hour. I wonder what they trimmed. It wasn't the clock channel bit.
> 
> JL


And it certainly wasn't that insane Q & A about cats, dogs and spiders near the end. That was brutal!


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## Info2c (Dec 29, 2004)

I have seen MP4 used......ITS NOT FOR "HDTV"!!! It's best use is for streaming internet video, for portable "i-movies", for DSL or Broadband, but not for the high quality "ATSC" VSB-8 digital televeision standards perfected the past ten years! Oh, you gamers with X-boxs & Playstations have some potential uses.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Try H.264(a variation of Mpeg4).


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