# Who is the true HD leader now! DTV or DISH?



## jamieh1

Who do you think is the true HD leader? Directv or Dish


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## Brian_83

I got a Dish Network flyer in the mail yeserday that said they were! LMAO I thought it was funny.


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## jamieh1

It looks like Directv has all the channels that Dish has except for HGTV HD which is coming this month.
And the VOOM channels which what I hear is not worth watching. Directv has more general entertainment HD than Dish, USA SCIFI, SMITHSONIAN, CNBC. They also have more premium service HD like STARZ (5) HBO(2) MAX (2) SHOW/TMC(4).

In my view I think Directv is finally caught Dish and we all are in for a great ride.


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## say-what

Doesn't really matter. I subscribe to DirecTV, so they are my only HD provider and I'm happy with that.


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## jdoug

WSJ had an article today saying how Directv's moves will force cable and DISH to catch up and by end of next year it won't much matter who your provider is. The exception will be the small, rural cable providers.


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## tonyd79

jdoug said:


> WSJ had an article today saying how Directv's moves will force cable and DISH to catch up and by end of next year it won't much matter who your provider is. The exception will be the small, rural cable providers.


Once again, WSJ proves it knows little about technology. Wonder where the cable companies and DISH are going to come up with all this bandwidth suddenly.

They will catch up but end of the year????


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## Sixto

They've been pretty busy over at D* with Universal HD, HD Theater, HDNet Movies, HDNet, CNN HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, NFL Network HD, Big Ten Network HD, Food Network HD, USA Network HD, SciFi Channel HD, TNT HD, TBS HD, MGM HD, A&E HD, Smithsonian HD, The History Channel HD, Bravo HD, National Geographic Channel HD, Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD, The Science Channel HD, MHD, CNBC HD, The Weather Channel HD, HBO East HD, HBO West HD, Cinemax East HD, Cinemax West HD, Starz Kids & Family HD, Starz Comedy HD, Starz East HD, Starz West HD, Starz Edge HD, Showtime East HD, Showtime Too HD, Showtime West HD, The Movie Channel HD, Versus HD / Golf HD, YES HD, NESN HD, SNY HD, CSN Mid-Atlantic HD, CSN Chicago HD ...

Be interesting taking this list to the local cable company, or FIOS, or even E* ...


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## Stuart Sweet

I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


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## jdoug

tonyd79 said:


> Once again, WSJ proves it knows little about technology. Wonder where the cable companies and DISH are going to come up with all this bandwidth suddenly.
> 
> They will catch up but end of the year????


End of next year. And, looking again the article was focused on cable and their rollout of SDV. DISH was not mentioned. My bad.


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## Jeremy W

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


I just wish that it was a public poll, so we can see when harsh casts his vote for Dish. :lol:


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## tonyd79

Local Comcast has 18 "national HDs." Yes, they have two locals that DirecTV doesn't have yet (CW and PBS) but to catch up by next year's end as the WSJ says, they would have to add somewhere along the lines of 52 to 82 HDs. They don't have the bandwidth. Nor does any cable company until they go to switched video and/or turn off their analog stations.

D*'s only competition right now is DiSH. (Fios seems to have just decided to not partake in the HD wars for now.)


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## MikeR

tonyd79 said:


> (Fios seems to have just decided to not partake in the HD wars for now.)


Apparently, reviewing the AVS thread - Fios has problems similar to cable with the headend equipment....


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## tonyd79

jdoug said:


> End of next year. And, looking again the article was focused on cable and their rollout of SDV. DISH was not mentioned. My bad.


Again, switched video won't be rolled out that quickly either.

WSJ is a bad source for technical stuff. Always has been.


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## tonyd79

MikeR said:


> Apparently, reviewing the AVS thread - Fios has problems similar to cable with the headend equipment....


Yes, they are limited by what they do on their national feeds. But they designed the system that way. It was a recent choice. Hence, they decided to sit out for now.


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## Drew2k

DIRECTV. Clearly. They have announced their plans and are following through.


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## Mike D-CO5

Drew2k said:


> DIRECTV. Clearly. They have announced their plans and are following through.


FINALLY!


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## dmunjal

I just got a flyer from AT&T offering their LightSpeed service (like FiOS) which is fiber-based and they don't even have the HD channels DirecTV has let alone the internet speeds Comcast has.


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## bdowell

> Im just glad that HD is finally coming to life!


Yup!


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## donshan

I think it is the quantity of true HD program content available on each channel today that is the main issue rather than the total HD channel count that matters.

As more total HD subscribers on both D* & E* and cable build up the total audience size for a HD channel , it helps the companies producing HD content justify and sell their HD program productions. As audience size increases there will be to enough copies sold to make more HD originals, more HD film transfers and more live HD broadcasts economically possible. HD costs more to produce, and each production company feeding material to these HD channels has to convince their CFO that HD can be profitable. Advertisers are only beginning to produce their ads in HD. Once major ad accounts are being produced solely in HD you can bet they will only pay to run those more expensive ads on HD channels. 

So the more HD channels for both D*, E* and cable the better, because the days of SD fill-ins in non primetime, unconverted old material, using 480p DVD masters for HD channels will all subside as more and more HD channels are available to spread the extra HD production costs over a larger total audience.


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## jcurrier31

Big D* Fanboy here saying what really matters.

*I'm just glad that HD is finally coming to life! *

The more available Bandwidth on each service provider just pushes the networks to produce more content!

Everyone Wins!!!


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## Sirshagg

Is this really fair being posted in a DirecTV forum?


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## DCSholtis

Jeremy W said:


> I just wish that it was a public poll, so we can see when harsh casts his vote for Dish. :lol:


Let's see out of 3 votes you can bet on 1 being harsh, 2 being JL leaving one as a wild card guess.


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## Jeremy W

Sirshagg said:


> Is this really fair being posted in a DirecTV forum?


No, but who said it was fair?


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## Sixto

donshan said:


> I think it is the quantity of true HD program content available on each channel today that is the main issue rather than the total HD channel count that matters.


If you add every major network that we've ever heard of, in HD, then it mostly doesn't matter. You lead by default.

Lovin the D* HD!


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## tonyd79

Mike D-CO5 said:


> FINALLY!


Yeah, right on schedule is "finally!"


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## braven

I'm just glad that HD is finally coming to life!


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## mopzo

I see little or no difference with the channel line-up between Dish and DTV.

Why am I with DTV? 

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!


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## Sixto

mopzo said:


> I see little or no difference with the channel line-up between Dish and DTV.


Just looked ... I'm no E* expert but it seems like E* has VOOM but does not have (yet) CNN HD, USA Network HD, SciFi Channel HD, MGM HD, Smithsonian HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD, The Weather Channel HD, HBO West HD, Cinemax West HD, Starz Kids & Family HD, Starz Comedy HD, Starz West HD, Starz Edge HD, Showtime Too HD, Showtime West HD, The Movie Channel HD ...


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## Cable Lover

Cable will catch up, no doubt about that. Right now, I must admit that D* has more HD.


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## tonyd79

Cable Lover said:


> Cable will catch up, no doubt about that. Right now, I must admit that D* has more HD.


Probably many cable companies will but many will not. They need major infrastructure improvements and/or need switched digital and/or need to drop analog like Comcast in Chicago.

It is going to take some time and may tick off a lot of customers.


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## Blitz68

Sirshagg said:


> Is this really fair being posted in a DirecTV forum?


Don't worry Charlie's personal fanboys have been hanging out in Dave's forums.

Just look for a positive thread regarding Dave and you will find some of Charlie's boys in there spinning the negative talk.

They must be bored with not enough HD to watch.


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## Drew2k

donshan said:


> I think it is the quantity of true HD program content available on each channel today that is the main issue rather than the total HD channel count that matters.


I disagree. In my opinion, it's the provider that has the ability to deliver the most HD that's the leader, regardless of whether or not HD is there to be delivered.

Put it this way: Let's say there's only one HD channel. It's not up to the provider how many hours of HD that channel carries - that's up to the source of the channel. The provider just has to make sure that they are able to give up to 24 hours of HD if the source decides to *send* 24 hours of HD.

DIRECTV just rolled out new HD channels bringing the count to 46 (I believe). DIRECTV has the capacity to deliver 24 hours of HD for each of those channels, and they haven't even maxed out the satellite yet as there are still more channels to come this month. When the second satellite goes up, DIRECTV will double it's capacity for HD. That makes DIRECTV the HD leader. Whether or not there are X number of channels showing Y hours of HD per day, DIRECTV has the backbone to do it. Who else can say that for the number of channels DIRECTV is planning on providing?


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## lowspeed

Drew2k said:


> When the second satellite goes up, DIRECTV will double it's capacity for HD. That makes DIRECTV the HD leader. Whether or not there are X number of channels showing Y hours of HD per day, DIRECTV has the backbone to do it. Who else can say that for the number of channels DIRECTV is planning on providing?


Is there going to be a 6LNB dish !?


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## Doug Brott

lowspeed said:


> Is there going to be a 6LNB dish !?


Not at present .. As far as I know the only "main" satellites that are in use are at the following locations:

99, 101, 103, 110, 119


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## tonyd79

lowspeed said:


> Is there going to be a 6LNB dish !?


I sure hope not. I am just making it between two sets of trees right now. Of course if it is all between 99 and 119, I am good to go.


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## ClaudeR

Cable will catch up? I bet you never used the SA8300HDC set-top box. The newest cable box can't even touch the guide I had with DTV had 10 years ago. My SD picture on Dish is better than the HD I get from TW. I got cable a week ago, and Cable has a LOOOOONNGG way to go IMHO. Back to Dish for me.

BTW - I won't sub to Dish HD - $20 a month !!!!!!!! WTF??!???! And $6 PER DVR. Dish is the nickle and dime KING.


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## mopzo

Sixto said:


> Just looked ... I'm no E* expert but it seems like E* has VOOM but does not have (yet) CNN HD, USA Network HD, SciFi Channel HD, MGM HD, Smithsonian HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD, The Weather Channel HD, HBO West HD, Cinemax West HD, Starz Kids & Family HD, Starz Comedy HD, Starz West HD, Starz Edge HD, Showtime Too HD, Showtime West HD, The Movie Channel HD ...


Just because it looks better doesn't mean the programming is better. CNNHD? Putting lipstick on a pig....

If it wasn't for Sunday Ticket, I'd switch back to Cable


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## RAD

Mike D-CO5 said:


> FINALLY!


Yep, once Boeing built the satellite, ILS launched it, and Boeing handed it over to D* for use. And has been said many times before, if it wasn't for D* pushing the content providers would we even have all these new HD channels, if we had to wait for Charlie to get things moving I doubt it.


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## ChrisPC

lowspeed said:


> Is there going to be a 6LNB dish !?


No, it's going to be a second satellite at 99.


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## MizzouTiger

I don't think it really matters. Eventually, I think that the offering by both D* and E* will be very close to the same. I think it's going to come down to whose picture quality is better. I haven't ever seen E*'s HD picture, but I think, but I think that D*'s new MPEG4 HD PQ is fantastic!!


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## Tom Robertson

Leadership can be defined in many ways...


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## Jeremy W

Tom Robertson said:


> Leadership can be defined in many ways...


And if you define it as "Charging more for your HD package than any other provider" then Dish wins! Yay Dish!


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## Dolly

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


No joke :lol: If we thought E* was better, we would be their customers


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## michaelyork29

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


After all it is in the D* forums... :lol:


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## FlyBono24

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


Like this poll I saw on the Kansas City Star newspaper about who would win the AFC West... gee, I wonder why 90% of the voters said the Chiefs would win.... :lol:


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## The_Geyser

Finally! A poll that will put this subject to rest once and for all!


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## Capmeister

I'm a DirecTV customer. I don't understand why I should care how many HD channels Dish has this week or next. SO long as they remain good competition, so that DirecTV doesn't become the only one in the market, I'm happy.


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## Blitz68

Dolly said:


> No joke :lol: If we thought E* was better, we would be their customers


:lol: thought. We know who is better :lol:


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## Mike D-CO5

tonyd79 said:


> Yeah, right on schedule is "finally!"


 I wouldn't say right on schedule. I seem to remember a lot of disapointed people here on this board when they hd launch was delayed by one week. Add to that , that Directv has been promising the most hd channels out there for about 2 - 3 years and that is why I say: FINALLY!


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## paulman182

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I wouldn't say right on schedule. I seem to remember a lot of disapointed people here on this board when they hd launch was delayed by one week. Add to that , that Directv has been promising the most hd channels out there for about 2 - 3 years and that is why I say: FINALLY!


Well, although I was one of the disappointed people when the one-week delay came, the only word we had from D* as to the date came from CSRs, as I recall.

They have more than redeemed themselves for that letdown, IMHO.


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## JMartinko

I refuse to make a call on this one until I see what D* does with the HD RSN's and blackouts, especially how they handle all this with regard to the NHLCI package. I will vote later when I know the answers to some of these issues.


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## Greg Alsobrook

it's sad that apparently 9 people misunderstood the question...


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## Drew2k

AirRocker said:


> it's sad that apparently 9 people misunderstood the question...


Good one.


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## SeattleSteve

Actually, I understood the question but voted for Dish (even though I have no idea what they offer) just for kicks because the poll is so absurd.

Asking a question like this in a DirecTV forum is liking going to a Southern Baptist convention and polling the preachers on who's better, God or the devil....


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## projectorguru

I voted other on this cuz I get more FULL HD content from Blue Ray DVD 24/7 than any sat or cable provider out there.


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## MikeR

Glad to be a Directv sub right now, over Dish, Cable, or Verizon


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## jamieh1

If there is a MOD reading this, can this be moved to the DISH thread now to give the Dish subs a chance at it so it will fair.

Thanks


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## Hound

I cannot tell who is the HD leader. E* has up to five HD feeds for BTN. E* has HD
feeds for CI and NBA LP. E* seems to be ahead of D* in HD RSNs. E* has all HD
RSNs except YES, NESN, CSNNE, FSNBA, MSG and FSNY.

Since I have to have CSN Phila, I am resigned to having both cable and satellite.
Verizon gives me 36 HD channels which include 24 hour feeds of CSN Phila HD,
YES HD, SNY HD and HD NY and Phila locals with no blackout on sports. 
I have limited Comcast service plus MLB EI which gives me the MLB HD channel
with HD double (east and west coast games) or triple (day game) headers for
about 180 days straight. I have E* with five HD feeds for BTN, multiple
HD games on NHL CI and NBA LP every night, VS/Golf HD and (ESPN HD, ESPN2HD,
HDnet which every body gets including Verizon). 

Wish all of this was available on one service.


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## JonVig

No contest. D* hands down (finally).


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## jamieh1

Now with the latest addition of HD channels, how are the Dish subs feeling now?


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## jfalkingham

Did a search on FX hd and I found this quote from Dish Network over at HighDefForum, from CSR to customer:

"It is our intent to add a variety of HD programming to please the majority of current and future subscribers. Our long term plan is to have more HDTV available than any other programming provider. We will gladly forward your request to our Programming Department.

DISH Network aggressively negotiates for popular requested programming. We add these programs as soon as we can. We appreciate your request and hope to be able to offer you more HD channels soon."

That is from 4/25/2005

Wonder how long, long term is to their goal of being the leader in HDTV? 

Read the whole note here:
http://www.highdefforum.com/archive/index.php/t-7317.html


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## KurtV

projectorguru said:


> I voted other on this cuz I get more FULL HD content from Blue Ray DVD 24/7 than any sat or cable provider out there.


Um, there was no "other" option.


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## RobertE

Sixto said:


> They've been pretty busy over at D* with Universal HD, HD Theater, HDNet Movies, HDNet, CNN HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, NFL Network HD, Big Ten Network HD, Food Network HD, USA Network HD, SciFi Channel HD, TNT HD, TBS HD, MGM HD, A&E HD, Smithsonian HD, The History Channel HD, Bravo HD, National Geographic Channel HD, Discovery Channel HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD, The Science Channel HD, MHD, CNBC HD, The Weather Channel HD, HBO East HD, HBO West HD, Cinemax East HD, Cinemax West HD, Starz Kids & Family HD, Starz Comedy HD, Starz East HD, Starz West HD, Starz Edge HD, Showtime East HD, Showtime Too HD, Showtime West HD, The Movie Channel HD, Versus HD / Golf HD, YES HD, NESN HD, SNY HD, CSN Mid-Atlantic HD, CSN Chicago HD ...
> 
> Be interesting taking this list to the local cable company, or FIOS, or even E* ...


You know whats funny or sad depending on your point of view. I have today more channels in HD than my parents have total channels on their TWC system. 

A slimline dish may just yet find a way on their house.


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## techrep

D* is the leader in channels and content. :angel: Shoulder !devil12:


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## CoachGibbs

As someone who has both, I'd say right now they are about even.

E* advantages- Better (by far) HD-DVR. Better PQ on all Mpeg-2 channels except for HD Theater. Better PQ on HD locals (IMO). Big 10 alternates in HD. Also Voom for those who like the stations. I'm not crazy about them but at least they show HD which is more than I can say for a big chunk of the recent D* adds.

D* advantages- Better PQ on HD premium chanels and better PQ on channels like Food, HGTV. Having RSN's like Yes and NESNHD as well as having the Sunday Ticket and MLB pack. Once channels like FX, Speed, etc start showing HD they will become an advantage as well. Right now they are just SD upconvert channels.

Once D* puts their Mpeg-2 channels up in Mpeg-4 they will pull slightly ahead.


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## jamieh1

I think Directv is currently the HD leader with more general entertainment channels.
But Im glad to see HD finally get going and I hope this is the start of a good future in HD.


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## chopperjc

More competition makes a better product for all. I vote with my wallet. 
D* subscriber since 98.


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## projectorguru

KurtV said:


> Um, there was no "other" option.


Which is why I made my own poll and voted other


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## pauper

is it based on number of channels or strenght of HD signal? If so D* has a bad wrap but earned rap wtih the HD lite. Dish on the other hand has been praised for their FULL HD...


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## Stuart Sweet

Looking at the poll results, is it possible that the voting is a little skewed?


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## dave1234

jamieh1 said:


> Now with the latest addition of HD channels, how are the Dish subs feeling now?


I'm feeling great knowing more HD content is available. The added content on D is great for us Dish subs as we'll get the same content very soon.


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## man_rob

pauper said:


> is it based on number of channels or strenght of HD signal? If so D* has a bad wrap but earned rap wtih the HD lite. Dish on the other hand has been praised for their FULL HD...


But according to E* subscribers on this forum, E* recently went to HD-lite, at least on the mpeg2 channels, as well as moving some of the Voom channels to mpeg4, to make room for E*'s HD push last Aug.


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## RAD

IIRC, E*'s using 1440x1080i on all their MPEG4 channels which would make them the leader in HDLite at the moment if the rumor (Earl here and Scott at his site say this) that D*'s doing 1920x1080i on their MPEG4 channels.


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## MikeR7

Blitz68 said:


> Don't worry Charlie's personal fanboys have been hanging out in Dave's forums.
> 
> Just look for a positive thread regarding Dave and you will find some of Charlie's boys in there spinning the negative talk.
> 
> They must be bored with not enough HD to watch.


Who is Dave?


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## Richard King

Being in a small minority of one, I had to go with Dish because they have the channels that I am interested in (some VOOM channels) that Directv doesn't have. I really couldn't care less about most of the recent D* adds. Actually, the third item is what everyone should pick.


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## Tom Robertson

Richard King said:


> Being in a small minority of one, I had to go with Dish because they have the channels that I am interested in (some VOOM channels) that Directv doesn't have. I really couldn't care less about most of the recent D* adds. Actually, the third item is what everyone should pick.


Well said! I voted third item, but only once in the two polls.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Jeremy W

MikeR7 said:


> Who is Dave?


Hacker speak for DirecTV. It stands for Digital Audio Video Entertainment. Just so that DirecTV could have a name, like Dish has Charlie.


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## jamieh1

I just posted the same poll over at the Dish Network HD thread and Directv is getting more votes than Dish.


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## Tmax88

Directv is no doubt the leader right now, but the race is not over. The future of HD looks pretty good!


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## Richard King

jdoug said:


> WSJ had an article today saying how Directv's moves will force cable and DISH to catch up and by end of next year it won't much matter who your provider is. The exception will be the small, rural cable providers.


Gee, I wonder if the fact that Directv just bought 8 pages of advertising promoting their HD packages in ONE DAY this week had anything to do with that story. Nah, that can't be it. Gee, I wonder if the new owner of the Wall Street Journal had anything to do with it. Nah, that can't be it. :lol: Actually, anything in relation to competition in the satellite business printed in the WSJ has to be taken with a very large grain of salt now.


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## Jhon69

Jeremy W said:


> Hacker speak for DirecTV. It stands for Digital Audio Video Entertainment. Just so that DirecTV could have a name, like Dish has Charlie.


You know I thought they were referring to Cheech & Chong.I was getting ready to
tell them"Dave's not here,Man"!.:lol:


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## SDizzle

This poll was started on 10/11, and now with the additions this week to D*'s lineup, the answer is definitely D*! But, the good part about this is it will push E* and Cable to step it up, and keep D* from resting on their arses........


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## lowspeed

I went to sears today, and they had a big sign for dish saying in BOLD "DISH has the most HD channels"

False advertising.


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## harsh

tonyd79 said:


> Wonder where the cable companies and DISH are going to come up with all this bandwidth suddenly.


I wonder where all the HD content is to go with all of these channels that DIRECTV has added.


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## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> I wonder where all the HD content is to go with all of these channels that DIRECTV has added.


I wonder why it even matters? The channels are there, so that any HD content they have to offer will be seen on DirecTV. That's more than any other provider can say.


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## richiephx

I'm still unsure why all this matters to anyone anyway. Can someone explain it in a concise and meaningful way please?


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## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> I wonder why it even matters?


It matters if you were expecting 60+ channels of HD and you didn't get anywhere near that. It wasn't about adding channels by October so you would be ready for February 2008. That's kind of like counting mapdowns in your total number of channels.


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## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> It matters if you were expecting 60+ channels of HD and you didn't get anywhere near that.


Anyone who was expecting the new simulcast channels to be 24x7 HD, or even close to it, is a moron. All you're doing is grabbing at straws to bash DirecTV. Your arguments are so insanely weak, it's not even funny anymore. DirecTV is doing everything in their power to advance the HD market. Only a true Dish fanboy such as yourself can bash them for carrying every HD channel the networks choose to put out.


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## paulman182

Actually, I haven often found Harsh to make a good point, even if he is a little "Harsh."

But I think it is "Unduly Harsh" to slam D* for some of the channels' paucity of true HD. We have the channels, cost went up $4.99 at most, all the other providers are scrambling. We can see all the HD programming from the most popular channels, premiums as well as basics. 

That's about all we can ask for from our satellite provider!


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## James Long

Talk about DBS, not each other folks.



Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm thinking this poll might end up being a little biased ...


Ya think?

I believe E* folks are so sick of the situation (D* catching up after years of promises and no immediate "retaliation" from E* other than trying to match D*'s lies about channel counts) that most just ignore threads like this.

Now excuse me, I'm going to watch NHL Network HD. Not because I like Hockey, but because I can watch NHL Network HD.


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## Jeremy W

James Long said:


> Now excuse me, I'm going to watch NHL Network HD. Not because I like Hockey, but because I can watch NHL Network HD.


I'm sorry, I was busy watching Kiran Chetry read me the news on CNN HD.


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## Richard King

The ONLY leader in HD is the one that has the most channels in HD that YOU want. Right now, for me, that would be Dish.

I really think it's time to close this useless topic and poll.


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## James Long

Richard King said:


> I really think it's time to close this useless topic and poll.


Agreed. The point has been made. D* people believe their service is better than E*.

Perhaps the poll should read "Who's service is better? a) mine b) the other one c) neither"


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