# 922 Beta Ending?



## olguy

Just checked the other site and it appears the 922 Beta is over. It also appears from many comments over there that the 922 is not yet ready for prime time. Problems mentioned included timers not firing and if firing recording not ending, no EHD yet, Slingbox problems and maybe it doesn't support IR remotes yet.


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## phrelin

Yeah, I saw that. And I still say do you really want to rely on Dish Network for support for something this complicated? I'm toying with the idea of buying a Sling setup. Dish Network (1) should be creating a simple but effective browser for the ViP series and (2) could become an effective marketing outlet for Echostar's Sling equipment.


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## 356B

I'm still running the vip622 which works OK, would you suggest upgrading to the vip722k, I was told by dish I have a free upgrade, or waiting for the vip922 to clear up it's problems?
Thank you,
356B


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## phrelin

356B said:


> I'm still running the vip622 which works OK, would you suggest upgrading to the vip722k, I was told by dish I have a free upgrade, or waiting for the vip922 to clear up it's problems?
> Thank you,
> 356B


I'm a conservative when it comes to these boxes. If the 922 came out tomorrow I wouldn't touch it for at least 9 months based on previous post-release problems.

If your 622 works, I'd wait until it doesn't or at least appears to be developing problems. At this time the 722k doesn't offer anything meaningful when you can't get off-the-air reception, in my opinion.

One option might be to _add_ a 722k though there would be costs. The thing I like most about having both a 722 and a 612, besides being able to record four shows at a time, is the idea if one fails I still have the other until a replacement arrives.

But that's my opinion, it's free and worth every penny.:grin:


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## olguy

phrelin said:


> Yeah, I saw that. And I still say do you really want to rely on Dish Network for support for something this complicated? I'm toying with the idea of buying a Sling setup. Dish Network (1) should be creating a simple but effective browser for the ViP series and (2) could become an effective marketing outlet for Echostar's Sling equipment.


I agree completely. I remember when folks were complaining about the complexity of VCRs  Too bad Dish can't get the DVRs to the point that they are as easy to use as a TV. And here they come with the 922 and it's weird remote and Slingbox they can't get to work.:bang



356B said:


> I'm still running the vip622 which works OK, would you suggest upgrading to the vip722k, I was told by dish I have a free upgrade, or waiting for the vip922 to clear up it's problems?
> Thank you,
> 356B


There are a couple of advantages to the 722K. If it's free. One is the ability to record 2 OTA channels as opposed to 1 on the 622/722. But you have to buy the module. Without it you don't have OTA at all. The one thing I do like is the ability to load all your timers and option info into the remote. But not enough to pay any extra to get it.


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## 356B

Thanks to "phrelin" and "olguy" for you inputs, I suspect I'll leave well enough alone for now.
Thanks again


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## Stewart Vernon

Considering that most folks testing in a beta program (not just Dish, but any company really) should be under some kind of non-disclosure agreement... I'm frankly surprised that any public forum exists where such topics are being discussed at any level.

As such, given that anyone posting such a thing would almost have to be in violation of an NDA to make that post... I'm not inclined to think much of it unless and until someone from Dish issues a press release or other similar official notice.


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## purtman

As far as the OTA for the 722k is concerned, we just moved from the 722 to the 722k when the former died. One of the posters on here suggested that I call DISH, talk to a CSR, and ask them for the OTA module since I already had been paying for one. The CSR very politely told me that I would have it in three days at no charge. That was LATE Monday night. I had it when I got home from work on Thursday, and it works great. If you already have OTA, you shouldn't lose it. Just call, be polite, and hopefully you'll get it.


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## olguy

Stewart Vernon said:


> Considering that most folks testing in a beta program (not just Dish, but any company really) should be under some kind of non-disclosure agreement... I'm frankly surprised that any public forum exists where such topics are being discussed at any level.
> 
> As such, given that anyone posting such a thing would almost have to be in violation of an NDA to make that post... I'm not inclined to think much of it unless and until someone from Dish issues a press release or other similar official notice.


I seem to recall you making a similar comment in the past. And according to the fellow who set up the 922 Beta forum over there he reviewed all the Retailer paperwork and could find nothing that prevented discussion on a public forum. He did caution those who might have signed a NDA to not post. He also reminded them they were to report the bugs they found back to the Dish Network per the Beta Testing Instructions. And since it has been going on since June and none of the posters have reported that Dish repossessed their Beta 922 I have to assume it's credible. While you might not think much of it, some of us do. And we anxiously await your report after you try the 922.


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## scooper

Guys think about it for a minute - beta programs aren't really over until the model is withdrawn from service. I mean - you have to have someone to check new features / new versions of software etc. There's probably still beta 4900's out there  ...


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## Stewart Vernon

scooper said:


> Guys think about it for a minute - beta programs aren't really over until the model is withdrawn from service. I mean - you have to have someone to check new features / new versions of software etc. There's probably still beta 4900's out there  ...


That's kind of where I was going with my post, in addition to the idea that IF you're in a beta you must be under an NDA...

You *might* be in a test/preview program designed to show off something, but that might not be a beta program... So the "beta program is ending" sounds a lot to me like "the sky is falling"... since, as you put it very well, a beta program really only "ends" when a product hits end-of-life OR I suppose if something in development were to be canceled that might count too.


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## Stewart Vernon

olguy said:


> I seem to recall you making a similar comment in the past. And according to the fellow who set up the 922 Beta forum over there he reviewed all the Retailer paperwork and could find nothing that prevented discussion on a public forum. He did caution those who might have signed a NDA to not post. He also reminded them they were to report the bugs they found back to the Dish Network per the Beta Testing Instructions. And since it has been going on since June and none of the posters have reported that Dish repossessed their Beta 922 I have to assume it's credible. While you might not think much of it, some of us do. And we anxiously await your report after you try the 922.


To be blunt... just because someone gets away with something doesn't make it right. Everyone I've ever known who has been in a beta program has had an NDA... Perhaps we are arguing semantics, because perhaps the retailers are not actually participating in a true beta program? I have no way of knowing since I'm not a retailer.

I am waiting for the opportunity to get a 922, so I'd surely like to think it could be coming soon. I know I've held off on swapping for a 722K since the 922 should be that + more based on CES.


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## olguy

Might not fit your definition of Beta testing and maybe in your world everyone would have signed a NDA but it seems in that other world there was a Dish 922 Beta test going on that did not require the signing of a NDA. And Dish sent out emails requesting those folks who were participating complete a final survey. And if a final survey is not indicative of a test ending I can't imagine what is.

And it was not a "sky is falling" post. It was a post to inform anyone interested that Dish was apparently through gathering information on the 922 from folks who thought they were in a Beta test. And that some of those folks think the 922 is far from being ready for the masses. But I guess since it didn't meet your criteria for a Beta test they were just trying the 922 out for Dish.


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## GrumpyBear

Not everybody who posts, they are in the Beta program are really in the Beta testing either, or even know whats really going on. How many posts by so called users, about problems or features about the 922 that have turned into plain and simple VAPOR, or how many, I am in inside employee and here are the real facts and it will be launched on this Day Posts that have turned into VAPOR. 

Heck when the ViP622 was launched so called testers and insiders spouted all sorts of stuff, my Vip622 was going to be nothing but a door stop when it arrived. I overheated myself, Dish sent a new one, only issue I ever had with the 622, and that was in the 1st month. 

Lets see, I could just post, hey I have been a member of the ViP 922 Beta testing and here are all the things right and wrong with it. Means squat, because I am not a Beta tester, but I always can say I am, and you would never know I wasn't if I didn't say so.

Sorry in any forum posting world, you have to take things with a BIG grain of salt. The idea that any company would have Beta Testers without NDA, just isn't going to happen. It wont stop users who say otherwise, because its down right impossible to prove rather they are or aren't.


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## Stewart Vernon

GrumpyBear said:


> Sorry in any forum posting world, you have to take things with a BIG grain of salt. The idea that any company would have Beta Testers without NDA, just isn't going to happen. It wont stop users who say otherwise, because its down right impossible to prove rather they are or aren't.


That's pretty much the fence I always sit upon. Rumors are fun, and speculation is fun, but I don't believe any of it unless I see it myself or the company issues a formal announcement.

100% agree with you on the NDA thing too. In another thread I'm pretty sure I remember posting something similar. IF a company has some people sign an NDA and other people not, then give all those people the same equipment/software... then legally, they have already broken their own NDA by giving the info to people not under NDA... and that would nullify the NDA they have with the other people.

So I similarly can't imagine any company giving beta equipment to anyone not under NDA. Now... people might say they aren't (just like people say lots of things anonymously in online forums)... or people might actually believe erroneously that they aren't.


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## JM Anthony

Shade of E*'s problems with the 921. Anyone else remember how bad its initial release was???

John


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## Stewart Vernon

JM Anthony said:


> Shade of E*'s problems with the 921. Anyone else remember how bad its initial release was???
> 
> John


I do remember seeing lots of complaints. Can't remember how the follow-on 942 fared, though.

I also remember complaints about the ViP622 when it launched, but I didn't get mine for almost a year after it came out and I haven't had any issues with mine. I think the ViP722 was one of the more stable recent launches if I remember correctly.

By comparison, I also don't think the 722K has been crazy with complaints like the 921 seemed to be.


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## BNUMM

Stewart Vernon said:


> I do remember seeing lots of complaints. Can't remember how the follow-on 942 fared, though.
> 
> I also remember complaints about the ViP622 when it launched, but I didn't get mine for almost a year after it came out and I haven't had any issues with mine. I think the ViP722 was one of the more stable recent launches if I remember correctly.
> 
> By comparison, I also don't think the 722K has been crazy with complaints like the 921 seemed to be.


The 921 was terrible. I never had a problem with any 942s that i installed.


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## JM Anthony

BNUMM said:


> The 921 was terrible. I never had a problem with any 942s that i installed.


My experience as well. I don't think E* every got the 921 right. Makes me skeptical of their revolutionary releases.

John


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## HobbyTalk

The guy that got the email thanking him for the beta test is also the guy that purchased his 922 off of eBay. None of the others making reports have said they got the same email. Maybe Dish juts didn't want this "unauthorized" person in the beta.


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## GrumpyBear

HobbyTalk said:


> The guy that got the email thanking him for the beta test is also the guy that purchased his 922 off of eBay. None of the others making reports have said they got the same email. Maybe Dish juts didn't want this "unauthorized" person in the beta.


NOW that is FUNNY. ViP922 system off of EBAY.


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## Stewart Vernon

HobbyTalk said:


> The guy that got the email thanking him for the beta test is also the guy that purchased his 922 off of eBay. None of the others making reports have said they got the same email. Maybe Dish juts didn't want this "unauthorized" person in the beta.


That is actually the first thing I've heard that makes sense. I remember being very surprised when I heard about someone selling a 922 on eBay (I saw the link for it after the auction closed)... and then amazed that he actually got it authorized. Maybe someone at Dish finally closed that loophole?


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## olguy

From James Long's Charlie Chat summary.


> Bill: When will the ViP-922 be released? (Late summer??? Can I beta test???)
> A: You missed your chance for beta tester. Taking longer than expected. Not before Nov 12th.


Looks like there was beta test and it looks like its over. And I think I'll wait several months, if at all, before I try that jewel. It'll be a true blue miracle if it's ready in 4 weeks. Of course that's based on the posts on the other site by the guys who weren't really in a beta test.


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## scooper

I sort of doubt it's over - they're still working on it, I'd bet. The Charlie Chat did NOT say it was not coming, so development is probably continuing.


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## olguy

scooper said:


> I sort of doubt it's over - they're still working on it, I'd bet. The Charlie Chat did NOT say it was not coming, so development is probably continuing.


I do agree Dish is still working on it. And I agree it will be brought out. I also believe the beta is over and they have a lot of feedback and a lot of problems to iron out. I also think Nov 12 is optimistic.


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## Stewart Vernon

Perhaps if there was something posted on an official 922 forum, I might lend some credence to it... but as I understand it, the forum being referenced is a self-described "unofficial" forum... so I'll just wait and see what info actually comes from Dish.

Based on the chat... it seems they might be aiming at Christmas (which makes sense), though Charlie didn't seem emphatically confident unless I'm misreading something in the summary.


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## Ron Barry

olguy said:


> From James Long's Charlie Chat summary.
> Looks like there was beta test and it looks like its over. And I think I'll wait several months, if at all, before I try that jewel. It'll be a true blue miracle if it's ready in 4 weeks. Of course that's based on the posts on the other site by the guys who weren't really in a beta test.


I think you are reading more into James summary here. The response says nothing but the Beta Test being over as I read it. What it does say is that the person missed the Beta test which could also mean he just missed the time to be considered. The post also gives no release date either. Just that it won't be ready before Nov 12th. Does not say how soon after the 12th it will be. Well at least that is how I read James recap.

As for waiting.. With a complicated device like this..Waiting for a couple of field updates is not a bad course of action to flush out the field found issues and to get feedback from the early adopters.


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## 4bama

olguy said:


> I do agree Dish is still working on it. And I agree it will be brought out. I also believe the beta is over and they have a lot of feedback and a lot of problems to iron out. I also think Nov 12 is optimistic.


Yes, even Charlie admitted on the show that he has one that he's been "using" and it still has several "software and technical" problems...that it is a "complicated" device because of all the new technology that's being added.

Like everyone else has commented, I will wait for quite a while after it's released to customers before deciding on upgrading to a 922...


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## SDiego

Sure is quite about this 922. I wonder if it will be available before xmas for us? I doubt it.


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## Stewart Vernon

SDiego said:


> Sure is quite about this 922. I wonder if it will be available before xmas for us? I doubt it.


Despite what some folks were drinking (Kool-aid??) it would seem that the beta isn't over and that the receiver isn't coming "soon".

That seems good to me... as I have high hopes based on what I've heard, and would like to see this receiver shine when it comes to market instead of being a complaint-fest like a couple of Dish receivers in the not-so-distant past.


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## olguy

Stewart Vernon said:


> Despite what some folks were drinking (Kool-aid??) it would seem that the beta isn't over and that the receiver isn't coming "soon".
> 
> That seems good to me... as I have high hopes based on what I've heard, and would like to see this receiver shine when it comes to market instead of being a complaint-fest like a couple of Dish receivers in the not-so-distant past.


Maybe the Beta that never was, according to several of your previous posts, isn't over and if not you know this how? And what have you heard and where have you heard it that makes you look forward to this thing? If there is anything positive I'm sure a lot of folks here are interested. Especially since we don't have any source except the one you deride. So if you, in all your wisdom know something good, share it why don't you?


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## jsk

The beta isn't over until the product comes out in production. Of course, there are going to be all sorts of problems in Beta and I wouldn't assume that those bugs will be in the production release. It could happen if they rush it to production to get it out before Christmas. It is probably best to wait several months after release before buying any new technology.


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## harsh

olguy said:


> Too bad Dish can't get the DVRs to the point that they are as easy to use as a TV.


When TV's include a comprehensive DVR feature set that is as easy to use as a TV without one, this _may_ be a valid lament.


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## olguy

harsh said:


> When TV's include a comprehensive DVR feature set that is as easy to use as a TV without one, this _may_ be a valid lament.


Actually that was a comment. Based on frustration. How many TVs or DVD players require nearly a dozen keystrokes to turn CC on or off? How many TV sets or DVD players have to be rebooted because of some problem? And I don't remember ever having to reboot my Panasonic Showstoppers or my ReplayTV. Granted, they were only one tuner but still...


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## DNSFSS

We've had a Vip922 in our office now for about a week. Just got hooked up yesterday by our trainer. The internet functions are extremely nerfed right now but we have it and have been watching it in the mornings. I haven't had a chance to play around too much with it, but I'll be in the office this week with some time to spare so maybe then I'll get further into it.


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## phrelin

olguy said:


> Actually that was a comment. Based on frustration. How many TVs or DVD players require nearly a dozen keystrokes to turn CC on or off? How many TV sets or DVD players have to be rebooted because of some problem? And I don't remember ever having to reboot my Panasonic Showstoppers or my ReplayTV. Granted, they were only one tuner but still...


On the other hand, the ViP DVR's are more comparable to your handy dandy super never glitching computer  from which you are posting then to a TV set or a DVD player.

I can remember running MS-DOS machines and not having to reboot for hours. Granted, it only ran one program at a time, but I cannot remember a computer running Windows....


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## Stewart Vernon

olguy said:


> Maybe the Beta that never was, according to several of your previous posts, isn't over and if not you know this how? And what have you heard and where have you heard it that makes you look forward to this thing? If there is anything positive I'm sure a lot of folks here are interested. Especially since we don't have any source except the one you deride. So if you, in all your wisdom know something good, share it why don't you?


All I know is what I heard from CES and what spills over here from other places. I have to work under the assumption that this box will come out (since they keep talking about it on the Charlie Chats) and that if it does do everything they talked about at CES I know I want one once all the bugs are worked out and it gets released.

I was just noting that some folks were certain the beta was over and that meant it was coming out soon... but those folks have gone silent again, which leads me to believe they didn't know as much as they thought they did... because surely we'd be hearing all the news if they did, right?


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## olguy

DNSFSS said:


> We've had a Vip922 in our office now for about a week. Just got hooked up yesterday by our trainer. The internet functions are extremely nerfed right now but we have it and have been watching it in the mornings. I haven't had a chance to play around too much with it, but I'll be in the office this week with some time to spare so maybe then I'll get further into it.


Sounds good. I'm looking forward to your information. A couple of questions. Does it still have the goofy touchpad, Wii trigger on the bottom, UHF only remote? Do you know of plans to allow IR remotes to work? Does the slingthing output HD? What aspect ration from the slinger? Well, that's more than a couple innit?


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## olguy

Stewart Vernon said:


> All I know is what I heard from CES and what spills over here from other places. I have to work under the assumption that this box will come out (since they keep talking about it on the Charlie Chats) and that if it does do everything they talked about at CES I know I want one once all the bugs are worked out and it gets released.
> 
> I was just noting that some folks were certain the beta was over and that meant it was coming out soon... but those folks have gone silent again, which leads me to believe they didn't know as much as they thought they did... because surely we'd be hearing all the news if they did, right?


I agree. It will come out. With the bugs worked out? How many times has that happened? Dish is still releasing updated software for it. But then they do that with released machines, don't they?

All I know is some folks said they had been asked to fill out a final survey. Final kinda implies the end.


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## olguy

phrelin said:


> I can remember running MS-DOS machines and not having to reboot for hours. Granted, it only ran one program at a time, but I cannot remember a computer running Windows....


Yeah, but by your own admission you're a geezer  And my Showstoppers and ReplayTVs were closer to a computerator than a TV but I don't remember nearly as many problems as I've had with 625s and 622s. Plus the UI was a lot friendlier. But I try not to think about them now. May they RIP :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon

olguy said:


> I agree. It will come out. With the bugs worked out? How many times has that happened? Dish is still releasing updated software for it. But then they do that with released machines, don't they?


I think, as others have noted, that "beta" for many products is an ongoing proposition where companies are always "beta" testing things before releasing updates/fixes for the life of a product. So it's probably safe to say that for any currently shipping Dish receiver, there's probably somebody (or more) somewhere in "beta" testing.



olguy said:


> All I know is some folks said they had been asked to fill out a final survey. Final kinda implies the end.


I really only have 2 points of contention regarding some of the information that has been floated in other places...

1. Some of the information seems to be information of a type that historically has been confidential to testers/employees. To that end, we wouldn't discuss/allow it here even if someone has found a loophole that lets them share potentially confidential info.

2. Some rumors are being presented as irrefutable fact, even when later proven incorrect (sometimes even by the person who started the rumor in the first place)... which leads me to question everything, especially things posted on the internet.


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## HobbyTalk

DNSFSS said:


> We've had a Vip922 in our office now for about a week. Just got hooked up yesterday by our trainer. The internet functions are extremely nerfed right now but we have it and have been watching it in the mornings. I haven't had a chance to play around too much with it, but I'll be in the office this week with some time to spare so maybe then I'll get further into it.


Did you sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) on this unit?


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## DNSFSS

All I know is that it was just hooked up. I saw it in action for a minute before I had to go do my work...I didn't hear anything that said that I couldn't talk about it. But I'll try to find out as much as I can about this thing...


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## Jim5506

I'm still using a Panasonic Showstopper, and your memory must be obscured by time.

It is clunky and takes menu level after menu level to make corrections.

It takes it about 30 seconds to turn on, then it brings me up in a menu instead of on my channel for viewing.

If I hadn't picked it up for $2 at a garage sale, I definitely would not ever consider buying one, or using one.

I'll probably replace it with a 211 as soon as I can (would be my 5th leased tuner, so I may have to buy a 211 with R5000 added just for sport).

If the service adds a new channel that I do not sub to, it takes me 20 minutes to get into the system to remove it from the menus, a real pleasure to deal with, NOT!!


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## olguy

Jim5506 said:


> I'm still using a Panasonic Showstopper, and your memory must be obscured by time.


Well, since it's been about 5 years or so at my age, that's quite possible. :lol: And actually we didn't use the Showstopper long until we got a real ReplayTV. But I do recall the UI was about the same. And I really don't recall it being really cludggie. I do remember we didn't watch live through it. We had Direct at the time and had those lil Sony boxes. The ReplayTV recorded what it was getting. I do recall the Showstopper being connected via a serial cable and it would change channels on the Sony Direct box. Then we got the Replay and had to go to an IR blaster.

So all in all, maybe my old tired brain is telling me what I want to remember, not what I should remember  And it has been 5 or 6 years.


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## Stewart Vernon

DNSFSS said:


> All I know is that it was just hooked up. I saw it in action for a minute before I had to go do my work...I didn't hear anything that said that I couldn't talk about it. But I'll try to find out as much as I can about this thing...


You might want to be very careful. As an employee, you are likely always under a non-disclosure agreement as a condition of employment.

I've worked for several computer companies (software and hardware) and while they didn't say "don't talk about this" to each device I saw being developed, I was under NDA by documents I signed when I was hired.

I'd hate to see anyone lose a job in this economy over a Web forum post.


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## olguy

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'd hate to see anyone lose a job in this economy over a Web forum post.


I agree completely. Please be sure you are clear to give us the details. If not, we can wait.


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## DNSFSS

10-4 on that. I'll find out. Chances are though, and I've talked with other techs at other offices is that they have all been shipped one 922 to learn the ins and outs of it before it will be released to the public. I might be able to answer simple questions, but I will find out more if I'm actually allowed to discuss much about it. So...we'll see what happens.



Stewart Vernon said:


> You might want to be very careful. As an employee, you are likely always under a non-disclosure agreement as a condition of employment.
> 
> I've worked for several computer companies (software and hardware) and while they didn't say "don't talk about this" to each device I saw being developed, I was under NDA by documents I signed when I was hired.
> 
> I'd hate to see anyone lose a job in this economy over a Web forum post.


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## James Long

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think, as others have noted, that "beta" for many products is an ongoing proposition where companies are always "beta" testing things before releasing updates/fixes for the life of a product. So it's probably safe to say that for any currently shipping Dish receiver, there's probably somebody (or more) somewhere in "beta" testing.


Agreed. Any receiver still getting software updates has a beta tester somewhere. Even discontinued receivers. Probably not many people testing them because there isn't a lot of development going on with a discontinued receiver, but there are system changes (new satellites, massive channel tables) that have caused problems for older receivers (as reported by users in our forums). That would be harder to test "live" (they could close circuit test huge channel tables). But until the receiver is completely out of service and off the network there will be someone filing official reports on it.


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## GrumpyBear

Well, 
Until Dish announces otherwise, the ViP922 is in Beta testing. Posts from people on this site and other sites that bought there ViP922's off of ebay for the testing should be ignored. Posts from users that aren't offical Dish Management should be treated with a HUGE grain of salt, on there assumptions on the Beta testing status.


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## olguy

GrumpyBear said:


> Well,
> Until Dish announces otherwise, the ViP922 is in Beta testing. Posts from people on this site and other sites that bought there ViP922's off of ebay for the testing should be ignored. Posts from users that aren't offical Dish Management should be treated with a HUGE grain of salt, on there assumptions on the Beta testing status.


So GrumpyBear, are you official Dish Management? Or should we take your post with a HUGE grain of salt? Are you a self appointed semi-moderator that tells us which posts to read and which to ignore?

This is so much fun. See a pot. Pick up a stick. Stir thoroughly. See how many knickers get knotted.


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## GrumpyBear

olguy said:


> So GrumpyBear, are you official Dish Management? Or should we take your post with a HUGE grain of salt? Are you a self appointed semi-moderator that tells us which posts to read and which to ignore?
> 
> This is so much fun. See a pot. Pick up a stick. Stir thoroughly. See how many knickers get knotted.


Only knickers in a Knot are yours and people who try to convince us, that they are in the Beta program but signed no NDA, or they have a ViP922 and they bought if off of Ebay, and they expect people to believe them. 
Pick your stick, stir all you want, becareful you don't wad your knickers to much, you might hurt yourself.
Until you see an offical DISH Network announcement, they rest of us will laugh and chuckle at people with thier wild posts about the subject. Just keep the wildness down, as I would hate to spill a good beer while I am laughing.

Quick Edit, this is what you are looking for.
*ENGLEWOOD, Colo. - Date goes here - DISH Network L.L.C., a subsidiary of DISH Network Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH), today issued the following statement *


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## Stewart Vernon

Let's try not to get personal. Maybe the next Tech Chat will have some official news for us so we can stop churning the rumor mill for a bit.


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## DNSFSS

So...I had a chance to get closer to the 922...it's not hooked up to the internet in our office (the internet is very dumbed down), the remote control is no where to be found (asked around but couldn't seem to find someone with an answer about it's whereabouts), and was basically told to not even think anything about the 922. Sure I could take some pictures for you, but you've seen better pictures from CES. Sorry I can't be of much help, if I can get a release date for you and maybe some training notes I might be able to pass it on, but for now I'm not much help. Deep apologies if I have got anyone really excited. But, I'm sure like everything else E* related, the 922 will be available "SOON". My prediction is that it will be available before xmas, since all of the offices around here already have a test model.

PS. I was told that the 922 is not very operational at this moment in time and that engineering is doing a software update a few times a week...so maybe they're doing their own beta testing (for once)


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## P Smith

Can you check at list what size and model of hard drive it using ?


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## phrelin

DNSFSS said:


> PS. I was told that the 922 is not very operational at this moment in time and that engineering is doing a software update a few times a week...so maybe they're doing their own beta testing (for once)


While it's good to hear the boxes are out there, I really would not want to have to cope with installation in homes. In addition to the problems associated with a typical ViP install, you have to be able make it work with every configuration variation in home networks and ISPs. That just overwhelms my mind based on what I know the differences are within the homes in our family.

EDIT: Perhaps we'll learn more in the November 9th Tech Forum.


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## Stewart Vernon

Regarding installations...

I wonder how much installers will be required to setup. Considering that the 922 comes with built-in Sling... Will installers be expected to test Sling and make sure that works before they leave a customer?

Internet features might otherwise be optional... but since the 922 will be sold/hyped for its Sling capabilities... I'm thinking that might put installers on the hook for making sure that works when they set one up.


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## DNSFSS

Stewart Vernon said:


> Regarding installations...
> 
> I wonder how much installers will be required to setup. Considering that the 922 comes with built-in Sling... Will installers be expected to test Sling and make sure that works before they leave a customer?
> 
> Internet features might otherwise be optional... but since the 922 will be sold/hyped for its Sling capabilities... I'm thinking that might put installers on the hook for making sure that works when they set one up.


We've had some "Homelink" equipment on our trucks for a couple of months, Wireless internet extensions, etc. We've also been supplied with Cat5 and I'm pretty sure that 922's will only be installed if connected to a broadband internet connection.


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## Stewart Vernon

DNSFSS said:


> ...I'm pretty sure that 922's will only be installed if connected to a broadband internet connection.


Though not said anywhere that I can find, this makes 100% sense. It's not just a flagship receiver for Dish, but one that kinda isn't as cool without the broadband connection.

I don't know how they'll verify that for sure up front (to avoid truck rolls to places that don't have broadband after all)... but I'd think it to be a good idea to not install 922 at a place where it can't really be used.

Without broadband, the customer might as well get a 722K.


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## 4HiMarks

I may be somewhat unusual as I have FiOS for internet and Dish for TV. My 622 is already connected to the router. It would be a simple matter to swap that out for a 922. I have been waiting and hoping for one. Might wait for the bugs to get worked out though.


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## GrumpyBear

4HiMarks said:


> I may be somewhat unusual as I have FiOS for internet and Dish for TV. My 622 is already connected to the router. It would be a simple matter to swap that out for a 922. I have been waiting and hoping for one. Might wait for the bugs to get worked out though.


I don't think you are that unusual at all. One of the things we have all forgetten in waiting for the ViP922, is EchoStar makes the ViP922 and wants to market the device to more than just Dish Network. Customers like you is just what EchoStar is targeting the ViP922 too. 
You take off the Dish logo and just leave on the Echostar name, Cable, Fios, and other endusers wouldn't know, and could careless about who makes the ViP922, just that it has the features and supports thier provider of choice. 
Benefit is Echostar market share will grow, and more marketshare is more money.


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## James Long

Stewart Vernon said:


> Without broadband, the customer might as well get a 722K.


Maybe DISH can institute a $15 per month penalty for having a 922 and not connecting it to broadband (similar to the "phone line" fee)?


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## DNSFSS

James Long said:


> Maybe DISH can institute a $15 per month penalty for having a 922 and not connecting it to broadband (similar to the "phone line" fee)?


I believe that the guide is going to be mostly web-related...unless I'm mistaken. I'm really leaning towards the fact that if you want a 922, it must be connected to broadband or else you cannot even have it. It'll be interesting to tell. When we have a training module come through about it, I'll be sure to pass any of that information along.


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## GrumpyBear

James Long said:


> Maybe DISH can institute a $15 per month penalty for having a 922 and not connecting it to broadband (similar to the "phone line" fee)?


Or maybe just make a Broadband connection a requirement. 
Do like Vonage does, and have a Broadband test prior to ordering one. Broadband test fails, you can't order a ViP922


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## Stewart Vernon

DNSFSS said:


> I believe that the guide is going to be mostly web-related...unless I'm mistaken.


I've always figured the "standard" features will work like normal, but with the new GUI we saw at CES being more fancy...

I do remember mention of perhaps being able to search online for additional info about programs, beyond what is in the satellite-delivered EPG.... but I took that to mean the "standard" 9-day EPG data would be read the same way as other receivers since the data will be there.

It was unclear to me, though, if those channel icons on the GUI screenshots were coming from the satellite, pre-programmed into the 922, or coming via the broadband connection. I guess that's something we'll find out when the receiver releases.


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## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> Maybe DISH can institute a $15 per month penalty for having a 922 and not connecting it to broadband (similar to the "phone line" fee)?


That could be like the old "HD-enabling" fee they used to have for the 622/722 if you didn't subscribe to an HD package. If people want a 922, but not broadband, they pay for the features they aren't able to use.:eek2:


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## phrelin

In the Tech Forum they let us know about the release of the 922 - wait until the next Charlie Chat.:sure:


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## GrumpyBear

phrelin said:


> In the Tech Forum they let us know about the release of the 922 - wait until the next Charlie Chat.:sure:


Hmmm,
I thought the Beta test was ending? I guess all those post on other sites, were off base. 
I am thinking/guessing/speculating, that the ViP922 will released after CES2010. Its right around the corner, they can show it off working completely at CES and use the fanfare as a selling tool. Plus right after CES 2010 is the yearly package/price changes.

Once again, the is all SPECULATION, on my part. Will continue to wait for something Offical from Dish though.


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## Stewart Vernon

Just based on logic, and how companies generally roll out products...

I don't think I've ever seen a technology product like this come out "just in time" for Christmas after November. Sometimes things like PS3 or XBox will come out late in November but have already been part of a big marketing push.

A product like this, and also with Dish's past history of low supply at initial product rollout... I'd be very surprised to see the 922 this year at this point. I think an announcement at CES and then perhaps a Feb/Mar release makes the most sense at this point.

Of course I have no info to go on... but based on the lack of official word and the date on the calendar, it just doesn't make sense at this point.

Also, figuring it will require a professional install like other new receivers have in the past.. there'd likely be a logjam of scheduling issues by December.


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## mcss1985

Stewart Vernon said:


> Also, figuring it will require a professional install like other new receivers have in the past.. there'd likely be a logjam of scheduling issues by December.


I haven't heard anything or thought about a it requiring a professional install. Why would it need to be professionally installed? Why did other receivers in the past need it?

Just curious.

Also I would imagine that would increase the price. Is it typical to have the professional install as an option that the customer could pass on?


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## phrelin

mcss1985 said:


> I haven't heard anything or thought about a it requiring a professional install. Why would it need to be professionally installed? Why did other receivers in the past need it?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Also I would imagine that would increase the price. Is it typical to have the professional install as an option that the customer could pass on?


And if you have had the experiences I've had with "subcontractors" which means guys who know next to nothing technical that arrive in their own old beater pickups and who ostensibly "work for" contractors....

Even the administrative office couldn't override the Dish Network computer to send me a ViP612 to replace a second DVR (SD 508) when I already had a ViP722. So the tech and I watched some TV and had soft drinks after I "installed" it. Nice guy and learned a lot from my A/V setup.

I wouldn't let one of these guys near my network setup.:eek2: :nono2:


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## Stewart Vernon

mcss1985 said:


> I haven't heard anything or thought about a it requiring a professional install. Why would it need to be professionally installed? Why did other receivers in the past need it?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Also I would imagine that would increase the price. Is it typical to have the professional install as an option that the customer could pass on?


Well, for a lot of customers getting a 622/722/722K has been by professional install only. Some of us have the "receiver only" option, but a lot of people have been required to have an installer bring the receiver and set it up.

I'm just hypothesizing based upon history... and taking an additional leap that the 922 not only has the same requirements as a 722K would in terms of satellite config... but additionally really needs broadband internet to function properly.

So I can see scenarios where a customer gets a 922 and self-installs, but doesn't have broadband or has broadband issues and then Dish has to send an installer out... or maybe the customer has broadband but not at the location where the receiver is to be installed.

I'm just thinking ahead... and while I'm not a betting man... if I were, I'd put money on a professional install requirement for 922 customers.


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## djlong

I think I'm kinda glad that I might still be under a commitment for my 2 612s. The 922, as advertised, is what I want since it appears that the Draco project may never see the light of day. I honestly can't remember if I had a 1 or 2 year commitment when I went from my Dishplayer 7200 to my pair of 612s and a new Eastern Arc dish. If I have a year left, that would be perfect for letting them iron out the inevitable bugs in the 922.


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## SDiego

This forum sure went quite. Last thing I heard last spring and summer, was supposed to be out this fall. I quess perhaps after CES in Vegas I bet.


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## P Smith

How much you wanna bet against later date ?


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## dvrblogger

in charlie chat Charlie said Feb 2010 last nite (at the earliest my 2 cents) also seems they ditched the touchpad remote. New specs are available at one of the other dish fan sites.


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