# OTA Help.



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

Hey guys! First post, so go easy  

I'm having a little trouble here. I purchased a RCA ANT706A VHF/UHF Indoor/Outdoor Antenna with10 dB amplification from WalMart. Hung it in the attic and it worked ok. I wasn't really impressed.

Next I went to RadioShack and purchased their 80" Boom, 32 element antenna (VHF range: 90 miles UHF range: 70 miles FM range: 70 miles). Well it worked great for about 3 days. I used RG6 wire. I tried re-pointing. No Luck. Signal only got worse. 

Now, here's the kicker, from some stuff I had here at the house I get the best signals. It is an old RCA UHF/VHF antenna and I had a 14db amplifier. Hooked them into the back of my HR-20 and BOOM...ABC is at 90+ FOX is 98+ and PBS is 95+ which is great, but no NBC (CBS is not available). Any ideas on how to improve the NBC signal? Thanks!!

Here are my specs from antennaweb:

AntennaType Call Sign Channel Network City State Compass Miles Frequency
* yellow - uhf WUNJ-DT 39.1 PBS WILMINGTON NC 310° 23.4 29 
* yellow - uhf WWAY-DT 3.1 ABC WILMINGTON NC 275° 17.7 46 
* yellow - uhf WSFX-DT 26.1 FOX WILMINGTON NC 344° 6.1 30 
* green - uhf WPXU-DT 35.1 ION JACKSONVILLE NC 52° 35.7 34 
* green - uhf WECT-DT 6.1 NBC WILMINGTON NC 310° 23.4 44


----------



## otaota (Aug 6, 2007)

andy1824 said:


> Hey guys! First post, so go easy
> 
> I'm having a little trouble here. I purchased a RCA ANT706A VHF/UHF Indoor/Outdoor Antenna with10 dB amplification from WalMart. Hung it in the attic and it worked ok. I wasn't really impressed.
> 
> ...


Are you using a rotator on the big RS antenna? Your stations come from a wide spread of angles, but it wasn't clear if you installed the big antenna in the attic or on the roof with/without a rotator, and with/without an amp. If you could provide more specifics about the equipment you tried, it might help shed some light on the issue.

If the big antenna worked great for 3 days, did it get NBC?

If you can figure out what went wrong with the 80" antenna, it would be your best option. It has more intrinsic gain than any of the "set-top" antennas, plus it's more directional. Both of these factors should provide better immunity to signal dropouts and macroblocking artifacts. However, this antenna will need to be rotated depending on the channel you want to watch.

If you had an amp on the 80" antenna before, you can try it without the amp. At these ranges, you shouldn't need one. Also, with the strong signals coming through the antenna, it may actually be enough to overload some lower-end amps.

Cheers,
Chuck


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Sounds like you may have a loose wire.

Your digitals are all UHF, the RS antenna is UHF/VHF combo, so you are not using half of it. Your signal is strong enough to not need a pre-amp with an excellent antenna. RS antennas are good, but not excellent. RS amplifiers are poor.

My first choice would have been a Channel Master 4221. It has a fairly wide beam and is strong enough to pull in all your stations (less than $25 @ solid signal dot com). Your RS yagi is probably too narrow a beam width to get anything more than 10 degrees either side of center.

Mount it outside, attic install cuts signal at least in half.


----------



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

thanks for the help guys! I ended up taking back the RS antenna. Currently using the old RCA UHF/VHF antenna and I had without the amplifier. It works just ok. I'd like to improve the signal and am seriously considering the channel master 4221. Thinking about adding the Channel Master CM 3042 13dB amplifier. Is it needed?

The other antenna I am considering is the Winegard SS 2000. Thoughts??

Thanks again


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

First I would try the 4221 without the screen. It will then be bidirectional and should pick up all those stations if pointed at wilmington. Skip the amp at first, sounds like you are close enough some analogs might overload it.


----------



## reh523 (Sep 7, 2006)

I would go with a 4228 w/o amplifier. You dont want a amp amplifying a weak signal with a bunch of noise...

For real good advice go over to AVS forums and see what works in your area......


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Are you running the OTA signal over the same coax lines as your satellite signal (using a diplexer)?

This could cause interference. When my satellite receiver died recently, and I unplugged it, I noticed that all my OTA signal strengths increased dramatically.


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

You've already gotten a lot of good advice on this thread, and I'd like to organize it into some simple rules that may help. Plus throw in my 2 cents!  

I really like the 4-bay bowtie design (CM4221). The 4228 is a better antenna, but it's also more expensive, more directional, and larger. 

By far the most important advice I can give you is start with the best antenna possible. You can't make up for a small/poor antenna with a preamp. The carrier-to-noise at the antenna's output terminals is the best you will get. There is nothing you can do to make it better (except for installing the antenna higher and outdoors).

Only use a preamp if necessary to overcome the loss in the line down to the tv. The preamp should be mounted at the antenna. Preamps can overload and produce intermods or be driven into non-linear operation. In other words, they can hurt more than help, so use one only if necessary. Based on the information you have provided, I don't think you need a preamp unless you have a very long cable run to your tv and/or use splitters to feed several televisions.

If you do use a preamp, make sure you get a nice low noise amplifier. The CM7777 is an excellent preamp but it has a lot of gain, probably way too much for your installation. You want enough gain to overcome the cable loss, but too much gain can lead to other problems.

The Winegard SS2000 is a VHF/UHF small, amplified antenna. You don't want VHF, and small amplified antennas are not the way to go. Start with the best antenna you can afford and install, and install it outside if at all possible.

Good luck!


----------



## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Also remember that some of your channels may be going back to their orignal spots after next feb. If so you will need a UHF/VHF combo. If you go to tvfool.com and click on the post transition thing it sould show if this is planned to happen.


----------



## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

reh523 said:


> I would go with a 4228 w/o amplifier.


If he bought a 4228 he would also need a rotator. The 4221 has a chance of working without a rotor.


----------



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to go with the 4221 and see what happens. thanks again


----------



## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Keep us posted and I hope it works out for you.


----------



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

UPDATE:

4221 works great. 

Quick question...If I want to have OTA going into my HR21 (with AM21 tuner) and HR20, can I just split the signal using a normal splitter?


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

The 4221 is a nice antenna. Glad to hear it's working out for you. And yes, you can split the antenna feed, but a 2 way splitter will introduce about 3.5 dB of loss. At UHF this sometimes can be significant, but go ahead and try it. I did, and I had enough signal to begin with so a splitter didn't degrade the signal enough to make a difference. 

If you lose some channels after you install the splitter (and it may take weeks or months to really tell), you can either remove the splitter or install a good quality pre-amp at the antenna. Hopefully you won't have to go the pre-amp route... they can lead to a new set of problems.


----------



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks Scott. I'm a little worried about the splitter. I already have a long run to the TV - at least 65'. I'm worried the splitter is really going to reduce the signal. I'll try it and see.

If I were to go with a pre-amp, would you recommend the CM7777? 

I would install the pre-amp on the antenna mast and the power supply before the splitter? Thanks


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

65' is a long cable run, but I'd still try the splitter alone first. If you can stay with a simple, passive antenna system you're better off. Be sure to get a splitter that covers the VHF and UHF frequency range of 50-900 MHz.

The CM7777 and 7778 are both excellent pre-amps. I would install the power supply between the splitter and the antenna. That way you don't have to worry about finding a splitter that will pass DC, or worry about DC getting into the other receiver.


----------



## Digital Madman (May 23, 2005)

Good news regarding the WECT DT signal. They have applied to move onto the WWAY tower after Feb 2009, boost power and be at a height of 2000' along with WSFX and WWAY which signals reach from Myrtle Beach SC to north of Jacksonville NC and west toward Lumberton and Fayetteville NC. Hopefully the FCC will give the OK


----------



## Digital Madman (May 23, 2005)

andy1824 said:


> Thanks Scott. I'm a little worried about the splitter. I already have a long run to the TV - at least 65'. I'm worried the splitter is really going to reduce the signal. I'll try it and see.
> 
> If I were to go with a pre-amp, would you recommend the CM7777?
> 
> I would install the pre-amp on the antenna mast and the power supply before the splitter? Thanks


You won't need a pre-amp for any of the Wilmington stations. If you try for Greenville/New Bern NC, or Florence SC you would then want the pre-amp.


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

Digital Madman said:


> You won't need a pre-amp for any of the Wilmington stations. If you try for Greenville/New Bern NC, or Florence SC you would then want the pre-amp.


The pre-amp might be necessary to make up for the loss of the cable and splitter _after  the pre-amp(which is the only reason you should ever use a pre-amp, anyway)._


----------



## andy1824 (Feb 1, 2008)

Digital Madman said:


> Good news regarding the WECT DT signal. They have applied to move onto the WWAY tower after Feb 2009, boost power and be at a height of 2000' along with WSFX and WWAY which signals reach from Myrtle Beach SC to north of Jacksonville NC and west toward Lumberton and Fayetteville NC. Hopefully the FCC will give the OK


This is good news. I'm curious if WILM (CBS) has anything like this in the works? If not, my next option would be to get another antenna specifically for WILM.

I also heard on the news last night that Wilmington has been selected as one of the first (if not the first) markets in the nation to do the Analog to Digital conversion. This will happen Sept 8, 2008!


----------



## goldstar_media (May 9, 2008)

So when digital switchover happens in Wilmington, will people tune to ch.30 to watch FOX 26? That's what I don't understand. I notice wikipedia says FOX 26 is ch.26 analog ch.30 digital. Are all frequencies changing when the switchover happens since the FCC is "taking back" their analog signals?


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

goldstar_media said:


> So when digital switchover happens in Wilmington, will people tune to ch.30 to watch FOX 26? That's what I don't understand. I notice wikipedia says FOX 26 is ch.26 analog ch.30 digital. Are all frequencies changing when the switchover happens since the FCC is "taking back" their analog signals?


Yes, you will tune to channel 30 to watch FOX channel 26 in digital. Well, your tv or converter box will tune to channel 30. You won't even realize what's happening. Part of the switch to digital is that the tv stations are allowed to keep their "channel branding." So even though your digital FOX station is transmitting on channel 30, your converter box or tv will indicate channel 26 (or 26.1). The tv station transmits a signal telling your tv that it is "FOX 26." For example, where I live the CBS station is on channel 11 analog, channel 9 digital. My tv scanned and found my channels. When I go through my channels using the channel up or down button on my remote, it gets the analog channel on channel 11. It gets the digital channel on channel 11.1. I can punch in 11, and I'll receive the analog. If I punch in 11.1, I'll receive the digital. So when it's tuned to 11.1, it's really receiving the digital channel on channel 9's frequency. You won't even realize this unless you look up the channel assignments in the FCC's data base, or tvfool.com.

Regarding your next question, some channels will change after February 2009. Using my example again, a lot of channels will go back to their "proper" frequency. Like my channel 11 could move their digital from ch 9 to ch 11 after the transition (they're not, but a lot of channels are doing this). You can go to tvfool.com, enter your zip code, and see what your stations will be doing before and after the transition.


----------



## goldstar_media (May 9, 2008)

Thanks. And what market is Sanibel, Fl in? I'm new to Florida.


----------



## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

Fort Myers. Sanibel is an island just off the coast of Fort Myers, FL.


----------



## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

andy1824 said:


> This is good news. I'm curious if WILM (CBS) has anything like this in the works? If not, my next option would be to get another antenna specifically for WILM.


WILM is an LPTV station that will go from 75 Watts (not KW) analog on channel 10 to 7.5 KW on digital channel 40. WILM's situation is discussed here:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0115/t.13458.html


----------

