# Distant Networks from NPS - Experiences



## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Looks like NPS is starting to get it together. They made absolutely no mention of E* when I called today. The rep took my name and address and said they would call back. Said the system to verify address was not available and there would be a delay in verifying my address. Was told if I qualified they would need my smart card numbers. Was told it would take 7-10 days.


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## Beardedbosn (Dec 9, 2002)

Beardedbosn said:


> I was on the website this evening. There is an RV/Trucker waiver to download and FAX in. They bundle the networks so you receive Atlanta and San Francisco for each network subscribed too. $9.00 for all eight per month. Hope this works out, may FAX it out in the morning and see what happens :hurah: Chris


Sent RV Waiver FAX in Thursday (12/7) Received call Monday (12/11) to confirm information and now have all feeds from both coasts.  Fast service, probably a lot easier to qualify an RV rather than a street address. Boy, I hope this ends the situation for me.:grin: Chris


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

Beardedbosn said:


> Sent RV Waiver FAX in Thursday (12/7) Received call Monday (12/11) to confirm information and now have all feeds from both coasts.  Fast service, probably a lot easier to qualify an RV rather than a street address. Boy, I hope this ends the situation for me.:grin: Chris


I sent in a fax on 12/4, haven't heard anything. How is the PQ?

Mitch


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## buddhawood (Nov 4, 2003)

Beardedbosn said:


> Sent RV Waiver FAX in Thursday (12/7) Received call Monday (12/11) to confirm information and now have all feeds from both coasts.  Fast service, probably a lot easier to qualify an RV rather than a street address. Boy, I hope this ends the situation for me.:grin: Chris


Are they available on ALL your receivers or just one?


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## Beardedbosn (Dec 9, 2002)

makman said:


> I sent in a fax on 12/4, haven't heard anything. How is the PQ?
> 
> Mitch


Mitch....Picture quality is good, a couple of the east coast feeds appear to be a little dark. There has been posts complaining about quality, but looks OK to me.

Buddawood...I am a fulltime RVer and have only one receiver in the rig and had an RV Waiver previously so I do not know if that speeded up my approval or I just cut into line ahead of you!! :sure:


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Kudos to NPS!

They called me on 12/12/06 left a message that they needed my smart card numbers. I called them back and was told that I qualifed for all four nets. I gave them my recvr info and my CC number and had ATL/SFO in my guide in about 10 mins. They also responded to my wifes email and we now have DNS on an inactive E* recvr. In other words they sold DNS to my wife who is NOT an E* subscriber.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Congrats on your success and your persistance. I knew it would all come together sometime soon.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Thnks Rich!

My biggest concern was that NPS was not going to sell to those of us who have LiL, but that is not the case. Now I am going to keep my fingers crossed that the rough startup that NPS had will not harm them in the Florida court. It would appear that in the begining they were only using E* supplied lists. That makes them to appear to be running a joint venture. Noew that they are (or appear to) no longer be using those E* lists maybe things wil settledown. I doubt it because the last thing the broadcasters want is for me to get DNS.


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## mhowie (Sep 30, 2006)

cj9788 said:


> Kudos to NPS!
> 
> They called me on 12/12/06 left a message that they needed my smart card numbers. I called them back and was told that I qualifed for all four nets. I gave them my recvr info and my CC number and had ATL/SFO in my guide in about 10 mins. They also responded to my wifes email and we now have DNS on an inactive E* recvr. In other words they sold DNS to my wife who is NOT an E* subscriber.


Out of curiosity, in what part of the country do you live? I ask as I am surprised addresses in W. Lafayette, IN are being reported as ineligible for DNS although they are unserved by E* LiL service. My former service address apparently does not qualify for DNS and I must locate a part of the country for a move.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

mhowie said:


> Out of curiosity, in what part of the country do you live? I ask as I am surprised addresses in W. Lafayette, IN are being reported as ineligible for DNS although they are unserved by E* LiL service. My former service address apparently does not qualify for DNS and I must locate a part of the country for a move.


Doesn't matter if you can get locals from anyone when trying to get DNS from NPS. Only matters if you can get them OTA (or what the law considers OTA).

Mitch


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## buddhawood (Nov 4, 2003)

I just received this e-mail from Dish.
GREAT NEWS FOR RV OWNERS! 
DISTANT NETWORK CHANNELS AVAILABLE USING EXISTING DISH NETWORK SATELLITE EQUIPMENT

Dear ,

Great News for RV Owners! We are pleased to inform you that All American Direct has been approved to offer distant ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX network channels to eligible DISH Network customers using existing DISH Network satellite equipment. You may be able to receive Atlanta and San Francisco distant network channels from All American Direct using your existing DISH network satellite equipment!

Please call All American Direct at 1-800-909-9677 or visit their website www.mydistantnetworks.com to see if you qualify. All American Direct can assist you in the approval process.

Thank you for being a loyal DISH Network customer.

I wonder if they activate one or all receivers like Dish did?


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok, so bring me up to date. If a E* customer had DNS (let's assume all four) on the basis of white area, why would he not qualify via NPS? I ran a query for my cousin (had Chicago DNS pre-Dec 1; he lives in the sticks). NPS says he's not eligible. What gives?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

The reason Dish lost distant nets is because they were rather "loose" with the rules. Perhaps NPS is being more strict with the rules and not turning on ANY that could be controversial. I would think that if Decisionmark gave the ok that NPS would turn them on though.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

BobS said:


> Ok, so bring me up to date. If a E* customer had DNS (let's assume all four) on the basis of white area, why would he not qualify via NPS? I ran a query for my cousin (had Chicago DNS pre-Dec 1; he lives in the sticks). NPS says he's not eligible. What gives?


Ifyou are using the web site (at the time of this posting) it NOT qualifiying by address. You need to call 800 909 9677 and speak to a live rep. They will ask your address and will tell you in a matter of mins if the address you gave them qualifed. THAT info is coming from Decisionmark. Call them and give them an address in zip 31501 you will qualify for all for nets. And E* has LiL in that zip.

It would behoove AAD to update the website to qualify by the customer address at mydistants.com. It looks like they are still on the same setup from 12/1

I just did my info on the mydistants websit and it says I do not qualify at this time. The thing is they qualifed ovet the phone and I already recv DNS from them. As I posted a copule of days ago My wife got DNS from Them using our other hoiuse in 31501 and my wife is not an E* sub. THe revicer she activated was an old 3900 that we deactivated last year.

So AAD will qualify based on deciosonm mark live over the phone just not on the web yet.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok, so NPS is providing DNS using E*'s equipment and system. They are an independent company not in cahoots with E*. Questions:

1. Does this mean I *don't * have to be a E* subscriber (of some sort) to subscribe to NPS-DNS?

2. Does this mean the LIL status of my DMA vis a vis E* is totally irrelevant?

3. If I have a E* system and am qualified can I get NPS-DNS and only NPS-DNS?

4. Can NPS sell a compatible non-E* DBS system?

5. Since channel authorizations must be sent does NPS have access to E*'s system or does E* still have to complete the authorizations (in other words, do you have to deal with two different call centers?).

6. What are the packages/prices that NPS is offering and are there any geographical restrictions (e.g. NY in the East, LA in the West)?

Thank you for your assistance.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Call NPS!


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## tsc (Nov 24, 2006)

BobS said:


> Ok, so NPS is providing DNS using E*'s equipment and system. They are an independent company not in cahoots with E*. Questions:
> 
> 1. Does this mean I *don't * have to be a E* subscriber (of some sort) to subscribe to NPS-DNS?
> 
> ...


1) See cj9788's post -- his wife is NOT an E* sub and activated a deactivated receiver.

2) Again, see cj9788's post -- the ZIP code he used for both activations receives E* LIL.

3) On your E* equipment, yes, only NPS provided DNS.

4) Call NPS, not sure on that one.

5) From what I've read, the consumer does not have to deal with a 2nd call center. Once NPS has your receiver information, the channels are usually active within minutes. How exactly they are authorizing the receiver is unknown, but I'm assuming it's similar to how SkyAngel authorizes? Although I have no idea how SkyAngel authorizes, either. 

6) Atlanta and San Francisco are the channel markets offered. $2.50 per network (and you get both ATL/SF) or $9 for all 4 last I heard.

I figured you would have had all this info by now.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

tsc said:


> ...
> 5) From what I've read, the consumer does not have to deal with a 2nd call center. Once NPS has your receiver information, the channels are usually active within minutes. How exactly they are authorizing the receiver is unknown, but I'm assuming it's similar to how SkyAngel authorizes? Although I have no idea how SkyAngel authorizes, either.
> ...


If I were doing it, I'd probably set up a formatted email with the r/s numbers and what package to activate. The interface from NPS to E* could be entirely automated. Even E*'s activation system could be automated.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

BobS said:


> Ok, so NPS is providing DNS using E*'s equipment and system. They are an independent company not in cahoots with E*. Questions:
> 
> 1. Does this mean I *don't * have to be a E* subscriber (of some sort) to subscribe to NPS-DNS?
> 
> ...


1. Apparently there are reports of getting a Dish receiver activated only to get these distants.

2. Getting or not getting locals or being able to get or not get locals has no effect on getting NPS distants. That's the law. NPS does not provide locals so can provide distants to anyone in a white area, or has an RV.

3. No. If another company comes along and leases space from Dish they too can provide distants and you could get distants from them also. However, the law allows only two distant channels per network per household.

4. They already do.

5. You only need call NPS, not both center.

6. There are no restrictions - the earlier time restriction does not apply to SD signals. The package is San Francisco and Atlanta. I believe you must get both East and West as a package for each network you want. Four networks (8 Channels) costs around $10.00 per month.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

As to number 4, there is no such receiver.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Call NPS!


I have e-mailed them (no response yet). However, I believe it is useful to have multiple sources of information. Most people here have better insight than the hapless schmuck who answers the phone at NPS. Eventually I will call but if I know what the "real" answers are I can escalate (if necessary) until I get to the right level of CSR. But thank you for stating the obvious.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> 1. Apparently there are reports of getting a Dish receiver activated only to get these distants.
> 
> Ok, is a "report" a posting here or something you heard in the steam room at the Y?
> 
> ...


_Thanks for the info. Now for the hard part...._


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

119 Tp 15.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

tsc said:


> 1) See cj9788's post -- his wife is NOT an E* sub and activated a deactivated receiver.
> 
> One swallow does not make a summer. It could be she slipped through. I was looking for something more authoritative but this does bode well.
> 
> ...


Never really thought about it at this level before. Just trying to help out Cousin Earl although it might be handy at the hunting camp....


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

JohnH said:


> 119 Tp 15.


Ooo, even better view! Cousin Earl will be so happy. So the Atlantas on 110 are spot locals only? - (I set up Aunt Tilly in Alabamy for ATL.)


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

By the way, is there any legal/contractual/technical issue that prevents NPS from offering the "HD" signals from ATL/SFO?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

BobS said:


> By the way, is there any legal/contractual/technical issue that prevents NPS from offering the "HD" signals from ATL/SFO?


IMHO, the main technical hurdles would be:
1) HD uplink from NPS to the satellite, and
2) Not enough NPS transponder space on 110/119


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

JohnH said:


> As to number 4, there is no such receiver.


You can use Bell Expressvue receivers, those are DBS. (And compatible with Dish)


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

I called AAD the first weekend of December right after I heard about them via this forum. I wanted to get my request in before the onslaught. I was told that they would process my request and that it would take 30 to 60 days.

Well after the court ruling this week, I called again last night just to see where things were. I find out that they are now charging $3 per waiver or $10 for all four networks. That started on about December 8. They also told me that they have no records of any waivers they requested from about December 1 through the time they started charging for them. So was mine submitted I asked? We have no idea, but it probably was was their response. They said that I could wait 30 days to see if my waiver came back or I could pay the $10 and submit it again. To their credit I guess, they said that they were swamped the first half of December and had a lot of clueless new hires on board and they just hoped that they all did a decent job. I wasn't real confident or impressed with the responses I got. I'm taking my chances and hoping that my waiver was submitted when I first called.

Len
Ocean Isle Beach, NC


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## rjhughes (Dec 19, 2006)

If you would be so kind, what phone number are you using for ADD/MyDistantNetworks? I have been trying the 800-909-9677 but can't get past the "enter phone number" VRU prompt to talk to a live Rep. I have been in contact with them via email, and they told me to call them at that number to set up a new account...but can't seem to find out how to bypass the system to get to a live body. Any help would be appreciated!!

Thanks very much!!!



lsokoloff said:


> I called AAD the first weekend of December right after I heard about them via this forum. I wanted to get my request in before the onslaught. I was told that they would process my request and that it would take 30 to 60 days.
> 
> Well after the court ruling this week, I called again last night just to see where things were. I find out that they are now charging $3 per waiver or $10 for all four networks. That started on about December 8. They also told me that they have no records of any waivers they requested from about December 1 through the time they started charging for them. So was mine submitted I asked? We have no idea, but it probably was was their response. They said that I could wait 30 days to see if my waiver came back or I could pay the $10 and submit it again. To their credit I guess, they said that they were swamped the first half of December and had a lot of clueless new hires on board and they just hoped that they all did a decent job. I wasn't real confident or impressed with the responses I got. I'm taking my chances and hoping that my waiver was submitted when I first called.
> 
> ...


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Try this one:

800-909-9677

Not positive that's the one I used, but that's the one on my redial button. I've gotten through each time I've called. If I find another one, I'll let you know.

Here's another possibility - 800-786-9677

Len


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## minnow (Apr 26, 2002)

If you need a waiver, call 800-728-3950


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## rjhughes (Dec 19, 2006)

lsokoloff said:


> Try this one:
> 
> 800-909-9677
> 
> ...


Thanks, Len. The 786 number got me right through and I was able to place my order. I appreciate it!!!


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## DishRick (Oct 30, 2006)

I am getting this when I try to qualify, maybe they are updating their system?

We're Sorry... 
Our real-time eligibility system is experiencing technical difficulties at this time. Please call our operations team at 1-800-909-9677 for more information and determination on eligibility status for Distant Networks from All American Direct.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They are likely overwhelmed ...

Think "small Indianapolis company with a few thousand customers entering a market with the potential for a couple hundred thousand customers and millions of potential customers who don't qualify but still ask for service".


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

rjhughes - what did you order, a request for a waiver or did you place an actual order for the long distance networks? If it was for the long distance networks, how did they so quickly determine that you were eligible?

Len


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## rjhughes (Dec 19, 2006)

lsokoloff said:


> rjhughes - what did you order, a request for a waiver or did you place an actual order for the long distance networks? If it was for the long distance networks, how did they so quickly determine that you were eligible?
> 
> Len


I called about 8:30pm last night at the 786 number you suggested, and the person who answered transfered me to "Ben" when I told them I was calling about Distants. Ben was very nice and helpful. I gave him the address and he plugged it into a database (I assume, he told me he had to do it twice for the computer to accept it). Within a minute or so after he entered it the second time told me I was eligible for all 4 nets. I gave him my receiver info and a credit card number. He said he had placed the activation order and I should have the nets within 48 hours. I checked about 2 hours later and there they were. All eight come in, but don't seem to be as sharp as the Dishnets they are replacing, and the Atl CBS signal has been cutting out every couple of minutes for about 10 seconds. I am assuming that will be fixed.

All in all, after the exchange of a number of emails over the past two weeks, once I got a live body it was a painless procedure.


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Okay, thanks. So did you ever have them do a waiver request for you? I had one done via Echostar a number of years ago, but NPS told me that they had to requalify everyone. I just don't understand this whole waiver procedure I guess.

Len


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## rjhughes (Dec 19, 2006)

lsokoloff said:


> Okay, thanks. So did you ever have them do a waiver request for you? I had one done via Echostar a number of years ago, but NPS told me that they had to requalify everyone. I just don't understand this whole waiver procedure I guess.
> 
> Len


I've never done a waiver request, so I can't help you there. This is for a second home in the boonies.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Well, wanting to do my part to assist NPS, I just called to get my distants activated. I had no distant networks before, but since the NAB, etc., are attempting to drive up the NPS legal fees, I thought I would help out. The young lady said they would be on within 48 hours. We shall see.


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Can someone explain to me why some folks like Richard and RJHughes can just call in and get their long distance stations activated while I have to wait 30 days or more for a waiver to go through? I thought I understood from the NPS folks that everyone had to requalify via the waiver system.

Len


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

The big difference is that Decisionmark thinks they are beyond Grade B range from desired network stations.,. If you "supposedly" are within grade B, then NPS has to g through the Waiver process.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

lsokoloff said:


> Can someone explain to me why some folks like Richard and RJHughes can just call in and get their long distance stations activated while I have to wait 30 days or more for a waiver to go through? I thought I understood from the NPS folks that everyone had to requalify via the waiver system.
> 
> Len


You only need to get a waiver if Decisionmark tells NPS that your physical address receives OTA stations. Decisionmark is the company NPS (and D* and E*) uses to get this info in real time. If Decisionmark tells NPS you do not receive one or more stations OTA, NPS will give it to you immediately.

Mitch


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Well, I just got off the phone with NPS again. This time I got a real ditzy girl who took my information and asked for a credit card number. I asked if the credit card number was for the waiver process or for the actual activation of the channels. She told me it was for the channel activation. I didn't bother to ask why I didn't need a waiver this time around. However, I did ask her how much the charge to my credit card would be since she didn't share that with me. I expect it to be $9, but she had to go ask someone and then she promptly cut me off. We shall see when/if my channels come on. I will be calling back to make sure she didn't screw up.

Len


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

This just gets better and better. I checked the NPS website and see that I am now paid up to activate my channels. I talk with another NPS rep and she tells me that I am not eligible at this time and will need to submit a waiver. No programming turned on yet, but I'm hoping that ditz #1 just turned me in and someone activates me. I won't complain at all. What channels will the Atlanta and San Fran stations be on? I know I saw them somewhere, maybe in an earlier reply in this thread. I'll look, but in case I can't find it, can someone let me know?

Thanks.

Len


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

lsokoloff said:


> This just gets better and better. I checked the NPS website and see that I am now paid up to activate my channels.


What do you mean the website said you are paid up? I have my distants from an RV waiver, and the website still says I don't qualify. I don't know of a website that actually shows my active account.

The website at mydistantnetworks.com shows the channels.

Mitch


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Answered my own question for others interested:

Where will I receive my channels?
You will receive your Distant Network channels on channels 5731 to 5738 on your DISH Network system.

Len


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Here's what the website shows for me:

You used Phone Number: XXX-XX5-XXXX and Zip Code: XXXX9 
Billing Name: XXN XXXXXX and Credit Card: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-5XX0 
You have already signed up ... 
You have already submitted your name and payment information to activate your service with AllAmericanDirect.com. If you have any questions then direct an email to [email protected].

To me this indicates that all I'm waiting for now is for someone to flip the switch.

Len


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

lsokoloff said:


> Here's what the website shows for me:
> 
> You used Phone Number: XXX-XX5-XXXX and Zip Code: XXXX9
> Billing Name: XXN XXXXXX and Credit Card: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-5XX0
> ...


Len what is your zip code? The reason I ask is that if your zip code is in an area that does not recv an OTA grade b signal from any network then you will qualify without waivers for DNS. If qualified for all or just some they should be turned on in a matter of mins. Not hours or days.


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Zip is 28469.

Been about 20 hours and they haven't been turned on yet, but the website is still saying that I have paid to activate my service. FAQ website says it could take 24 hours. Phone rep said up to 48 hours. I have seen others say that it was on in an hour or so.

Len


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Interesting.... I just checked on the site and I get: 
Networks you are currently eligible to purchase 
Waiver Needed ABC, NBC
Eligible CBS FOX

NBC is nearly 80 miles away and is not receivable here.

I spoke to a VERY confused young lady on the phone yesterday and she said I was eligible for all and that she would turn them on within 48 hours and then hung up. This was all done without asking for a CC number, nor a receiver or smart card number. I figured "maybe" they got the required info from Dish, but wasn't convinced. Looks like it was more "maybe" than fact. Late yesterday I got an email asking for my "Smart Card/Access Card #" but no receiver #. It also asked for my email address, the same address that they just sent to.


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

lsokoloff said:


> Zip is 28469.
> 
> Been about 20 hours and they haven't been turned on yet, but the website is still saying that I have paid to activate my service. FAQ website says it could take 24 hours. Phone rep said up to 48 hours. I have seen others say that it was on in an hour or so.
> 
> Len


I entered your zip code into antennaweb.org. It says that you can get all four networks with an outdoor antenna. NPS will submit waiver requests to all four networks. They have 30 days to grant or deny a waiver. In your case you will need 3 ABC waivers, 2 FOX waivers, 2 CBS waivers, and 1 NBC waiver to get all four DNS via NPS. Those who get stations turned on quickly are in "white areas", which you are not.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Stations.aspx


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## lsokoloff (Nov 15, 2006)

Tower Guy - why will I need three ABC and two CBS waivers? I can only possibly access 2 ABC stations and one CBS station (unless you're counting analog and digital from the same station separately). Not that I'll get the same result this time, but all stations except FOX granted me waivers last time around when I submitted them via DISH about four years ago or so.

Richard King - so you never had CBS and FOX already and thus already had a credit card on file with them? Are they on yet? Mine still are not.

My concern now is that I am getting different answers from different people:

1. Website says I've paid to activate my service, but I have no broadcasts yet.
2. Girl on the phone yesterday took my credit card info and said she would have the stations turned on.
3. Another girl and a supervisor said that I am not eligible and would have to submit a waiver.
4. I submitted a waiver prior to them charging for them, but they have no record of any of those requests. They tell me that they are "pretty sure" that my waiver would have been processed. Time will tell I guess.
5. Will my stations be turned on? If so, will it be in error? Should a waiver come back and I get denied on any stations, will they turn off those stations, assuming they ever get turned on in the first place?
6. What are they using my credit card for, payment for the waiver or payment for the stations? Nothing has shown up on my credit card yet.

In a way I kind of feel sorry for this deluge they are now trying to wade through.

Len


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

lsokoloff said:


> Tower Guy - why will I need three ABC and two CBS waivers? I can only possibly access 2 ABC stations and one CBS station (unless you're counting analog and digital from the same station separately). Not that I'll get the same result this time, but all stations except FOX granted me waivers last time around when I submitted them via DISH about four years ago or so.


The three ABC's are WWAY, WPDE, and WCIV. WCIV is likely to grant a waiver, but your comment that you can get two ABC's disqualifies you for ABC DNS, unless both of them also grant the request. I'd doubt that they would.

The CBS stations are WBTW and WCSC. If you can receive WBTW they will likely deny your waiver.

Your waiver requests in 2002 fall in the time period that Echostar was found to have broken the law. That's why we are in this situation today.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Well I just took the plunge and called to see if I could get waivers to get distants. With E* I had abc-W thanks to a waiver from the Indy affiliate. The other three nets had repeatedly said "no" however. So I call AAS/NPS and get right through. The guy I got on the phone was very pleasant and helpful. I told him my situation and he told me that it would be $3.00 per waiver request or $10.00 for all four. From my previous experience I was tempted just to go for abc, but I figured what the heck i'll go for all four, i've wasted ten bucks on worse things before! :lol: So we go through the info gathering process and then tells me to call back in about a week and half to check the status. I thanked him for his time and hung up. So we shall see how this whole thing works out. I'll be sure to post again in about a week and half to let y'all know how my experience turns out.


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## manicd (Jan 30, 2003)

I called and was eligible for FOX and NBC.

I am in the Denver DMA (LIL), but not in their signal area. I am in the Grand Junction, CO signal area. ABC out of Grand Junction never grants waivers. When I first originally tried to get one, they actually rolled a truck, set up an antenna and took signal readings! They also have a translator in Rifle.

CBS out of Grand Junction used to grant waivers but since have stop. Might be because that part of their signal area is considered Denver DMA and are losing local ad revenue because of it. They do have a tower serving Glenwood Springs, but because it is "aimed" into Glenwood, the picture here is funky.


Personally, I feel this area should be part of the Grand Junction DMA since this is their Grade A/B signal area and people are more likely to shop their direct marketing area than Denver. And if something newsworthy does happen, it is likely to be carried on the Grand Junction news. Though NBC news out of Denver does keep a news truck in the area and I believe the other ones do to, but haven't seen one.

Of course, if you have cable then you get both Denver and Grand Junction television stations.

What is also nice is you can be billed for the distants. You have to pay six months at a time though. It is supposed to turned on within 48 hours, but they said most of the time it is just a few hours.

But this just goes to show some of the problems with the current law. The local stations lose out because the law uses Nielsen to decide the DMAs. The DMAs need to be decided by the actual grade A/B contours. That way the smaller markets are not run over by the larger markets.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

Nielsen doesn't fabricate DMA's in some random fashion. They are demarcated based upon the behavior of the people who live in the area. That is why the information that Nielsen sells is so expensive - it's valuable to businesses. Prior to December 1, did you have Denver locals? Can you get cable? You seem to want local stations (either Denver or Grand Junction or both) so why all the effort to get San Francisco and Atlanta?



manicd said:


> I called and was eligible for FOX and NBC.
> 
> I am in the Denver DMA (LIL), but not in their signal area. I am in the Grand Junction, CO signal area. ABC out of Grand Junction never grants waivers. When I first originally tried to get one, they actually rolled a truck, set up an antenna and took signal readings! They also have a translator in Rifle.
> 
> ...


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## manicd (Jan 30, 2003)

BobS said:


> Nielsen doesn't fabricate DMA's in some random fashion. They are demarcated based upon the behavior of the people who live in the area. That is why the information that Nielsen sells is so expensive - it's valuable to businesses. Prior to December 1, did you have Denver locals? Can you get cable? You seem to want local stations (either Denver or Grand Junction or both) so why all the effort to get San Francisco and Atlanta?


Yes, I did have the Denver non-local package prior to 1 Dec. I also had LA. Which is legal under SHVA. SHVRA is what messed everything up when it allowed Nielsen to decide what are local stations. There should be No DMAs. Only grade A/B contours. If a person can not pick up a signal out of the air with a conventional rooftop antenna as allowed by OTARD rules, then it should become an unserved area. Politicos would have nothing to do with it. Only contours. That what it is under SHVA.

No, I would not get cable. I would rather go without than give once red cent to a local rip-off cable company.

Didn't watch the news on either of them. But when the non-local Denver stations decided to cover up normal network programming with some junk (which is their right) I could catch the network programming out of LA.

But when the behavior of the people in the area does not match what Nielsen says, then what? BTW, Denver is over 200+ miles away and Grand Junction is only 60 miles away. Economically where would you shop or go to a fancy restaurant? Neilsen just really dosen't know what is happening.

The point I am trying to make, is that Nielsen should have nothing to do with what are considered the local stations. Only the Grade A/B contours should do that or where the stations have translators at. If a station can't bother or afford a translator, then the area should become "unserved".

Why does Decisonmark says Grand Junction is local (based on A/B contours) and not Denver even though Neilsen says Denver is local (becuase they decided it was) and Grand Junction is not.

And since I can't pick up FOX and NBC over the air as defined by SHVA (even though I am in their grade A/B contour), I legally qualify for those distants no matter what Nielsen tries to classify as my locals.

Which again, is what I am trying to point out; the conflicts with the current laws.

Another example is Durango, CO which is in the Albuquerque DMA. Yet they can't get Colorado stations via satellite (at least as last check). In this case DMAs should not cross state lines.

Don't even mention significantly viewed stations since that has seemed to have turned out to be the biggest joke.

I want the stations of my choice. I like to be able to time shift more programs without adding additional receivers.

That way I can catch all the stupid, inane network programs the networks throw at us.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

manicd said:


> Which again, is what I am trying to point out; the conflicts with the current laws.


There isn't any conflict with current laws.

The SHVA back in 1988 was designed to get network feeds to the truly unserved. Satellite was never a way to get "local" programming.

However, with each amendment in the satellite laws starting in 1999, local channels were deemed important. And because Congress and the FCC both promote localism, then there had to be a way to make everything more local.

Thus, the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 limited new subscribers from receiving distant networks if locals are available. No conflict of laws, there.

And let's not forget that Nieslen is fairly scientific when it comes to their data mining. If most of the people in your county watch the Denver local channels, then you will be in the Denver market, according to Nielsen. Just because the only channels available over-the-air are in Grand Junction is irrelevant. That is a separate qualification process.


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## manicd (Jan 30, 2003)

Greg Bimson said:


> There isn't any conflict with current laws.
> 
> And let's not forget that Nieslen is fairly scientific when it comes to their data mining. If most of the people in your county watch the Denver local channels, then you will be in the Denver market, according to Nielsen. Just because the only channels available over-the-air are in Grand Junction is irrelevant. That is a separate qualification process.


Again, Neilsen should not be in the business deciding what are local channels. Local channels should simply be based on grade A/B contours and translator locations.

Denver stations went off the air here in 1992, because no one was interested in footing the bill to keep Denver available. The county commissioners even went as far as to set up a donation fund to keep Denver. The people spoke with their wallets. No Denver.

Denver didn't want to reboadcast into this area, for they could have kept the translators going. Guess what, Denver doesn't consider this area local to them. I even have a leter from a Denver station station that I am not in their local area.

The only one who says this area is local to Denver is Nielsen. So were do they do this data mining? On Uranus?

There should only be one set of local rules. Decided by what is actully recieved over the air.

Of course what would be best, is allow people to by what ever programming they want. But tht would happen in a perfect world.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

manicd said:


> Again, Neilsen should not be in the business deciding what are local channels. Local channels should simply be based on grade A/B contours and translator locations.
> 
> They aren't. Congress chose to use their DMA model. Congress could declare tomorrow that WABC is a Denver local. They don't want to make these kinds of decisions. They are politicians. That is why whenever there is a controversial issue you can be sure that a "blue-ribbon commission" is just around the corner. I really think that Nielsen wants nothing to do with the DNS issue and regrets the use of their product for this purpose.
> 
> ...


People can buy whatever programming they want now- provided that the owners are willing to sell it.


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## rp3259 (Nov 12, 2006)

When I called my info was on file via the E database. Turned on Fox E/W right away - good picture. Qualified for CBS three days later. Atlanta station did fade in and out but that has been corrected.


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

Greg Bimson said:


> And let's not forget that Nieslen is fairly scientific when it comes to their data mining. If most of the people in your county watch the Denver local channels, then you will be in the Denver market, according to Nielsen.


Nielsen surveys stopped being scientific when Congress started tying people's choices to them.

Now the surveys are just a feedback loop. Once upon a time people watched Denver, so satellite viewers can only get Denver. So they do new surveys, and surprise, surprise, people are watching Denver. No rocket science there.

Satellite should provide all stations to the closest county line or zip code approximation of their grade B contours, period. And any area that doesn't qualify for satellite service for any given network via that method should be eligible for DNS, period.

But to get back on topic, I've noticed that NPS doesn't seem to passing closed caption information correctly for any channel except Atlanta NBC (WXIA). I'm using a 4900 receiver. Anybody else notice this?


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

joblo said:


> Satellite should provide all stations to the closest county line or zip code approximation of their grade B contours, period. And any area that doesn't qualify for satellite service for any given network via that method should be eligible for DNS, period.


Playing devil's advocate, here...

So that would mean satellite should be required by law to have every local channel in the US available, instead of whichever markets they choose to serve? Neither provider is covering every market, so should there be a law mandating service to all?

People forget the reasoning behind these laws. Because local channel service was never available on satellite until 1999, there wasn't a problem for qualified subscribers to receive this government handout. Once local channel service started, it was up to the providers to decide which markets they wished to serve.

And with most people receving local programming over a wire, the "broadcast transmission areas" was pretty much a moot point. There was no need to base the laws on the broadcast area when there wasn't any teeth in the law on forcing the satellite carriers to serve all markets, yet enough teeth in the law to force must-carry into these markets.


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## rec9140 (Dec 22, 2006)

joblo said:


> Satellite should provide all stations to the closest county line or zip code approximation of their grade B contours, period. And any area that doesn't qualify for satellite service for any given network via that method should be eligible for DNS, period.


:nono: I have to strongly disagree here.  The WHOLE affiliate system distribution and the local into local system is a boondoggle and kludge in 2006. It was kludge when it started.

The nets should all tell the affiliates 1/1/2010 at 0000 your all DONE, TOAST, LIGHTS OUT! All distribution moves to a model like HBO etc.. The nets provide a feed for the DBS carriers and crapble to pickup via sat and then relay onto their respectives subs. Suckers for wasting money on digital OTA stuff... :lol: :lol: Suckers..... its coming, it may not be in 2010, but its not going to be much longer till OTA is toast. Its long overdue in the 21st century. It served its purpose for 60 years now its time to move on. Just like the car displaced horse and buggy, DBS has replaced OTA.

In 2006 and certainly by 2010 there is ZERO NEED for OTA transmission of television. 85% of the US gets its video via some form of NON OTA reception be it DBS or crapble. The remainder either choose not to get it or have no clear view for DBS or use OTA. OTA is clearly a minority in this. Its wasted terrestial bandwidth and supplying affliates on DBS is an even more EXTREME WASTE OF RESOURCES from sats ie: E X w/spot beams etc. to transponder spaces.

We need EIGHT and ONLY EIGHT channels for the Nets, 1 E/W set for each. Why duplicate 100x the same feed.

Look at the affiliates/locals schedules its all filler and crap from 0000 to 2000. 3-4 hours of network programming per night, the rest is filler till then.

Sports - all the various sports have packages
News - sources exist for that too
Weather - ditto

Ads - :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok, yeah, I watch the ads..... and have I got some land for sale in FL. 

Maybe the progamming would improve with out the ads and OTA rules on content etc..... then again maybe not, but the nets could save tons of $$$ on paying affiliates.

Time to roast the NAB pig for dinner!



joblo said:


> But to get back on topic, I've noticed that NPS doesn't seem to passing closed caption information correctly for any channel except Atlanta NBC (WXIA). I'm using a 4900 receiver. Anybody else notice this?


Had not noticed till recently that the CC was not showing up.... Hope its stays this way. Even when turned off in the settings my TV for some reason still shows them when its muted, never did this till recently.

Really a shame that teletext never caught on in the US. Would be such a better use for the space in the VBI. Oh well.....


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## Shellback X 23 (Sep 19, 2004)

I Faxed the RV Waiver form on 12/10. Started an email exchange last Fri. 12/23, got auto reply with FAQ's and "Did this answer your question." I replied NO.Yesterday I got email that "Waivers are submitted to affiliates and not subscribers" so I replied "which affiliate, billing or service address" and mentioned I was a full time RVer. Got reply in 5 min. "Oh you want an RV waiver, thats a whole different ball of wax." Also asked if I had a real house & a RV. Replied No house just RV. Five min. later message give me your phone number so we can talk. Replied and 2 min. later the phone rang. They had lost my RV Waiver submittal, could I send it again which I did and now I have all 8 DN's. The CSR, who will remain unnamed, was extremely helpful and apologetic.

Oh the fun and games with a new company and CSR's who are working 7/10's.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

manicd said:


> Again, Neilsen should not be in the business deciding what are local channels. Local channels should simply be based on grade A/B contours and translator locations.


Why? Because...


manicd said:


> Denver stations went off the air here in 1992, because no one was interested in footing the bill to keep Denver available. The county commissioners even went as far as to set up a donation fund to keep Denver. The people spoke with their wallets. No Denver.


So they gave up their translators. Which makes you "unserved".

Of course, we are talking about 1992. The cable company in your area must have been providing network programming. The Denver 5 were still available via satellite. So for all intents and purposes, you were still in an area where Denver was being watched most of the time.

When more than 85 percent of the households are watching network TV through a rebrodcaster, why should the rules be tied to what you can receive over-the-air? That doesn't make sense, unless it benefits you.


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## zmark (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm curious. Those of you with RV exemptions, is NPS turning on distants for all of your receivers, or just the one(s) in your RV?


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## minnow (Apr 26, 2002)

zmark said:


> I'm curious. Those of you with RV exemptions, is NPS turning on distants for all of your receivers, or just the one(s) in your RV?


It's been reported that NPS turns all the receivers on.


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

Greg Bimson said:


> Playing devil's advocate, here...
> 
> So that would mean satellite should be required by law to have every local channel in the US available, instead of whichever markets they choose to serve? Neither provider is covering every market, so should there be a law mandating service to all?


Yes and yes.

There already is such a mandate for AK and HI; it's time now to extend that to the rest of the country. When LIL was first licensed, a nationwide rollout was technically impractical, but today with E* boasting that they cover 96% of the country and D* rolling out HD locals on advanced satellites, it's clear that the capacity is there, or could be in short order.

So just as local communities try to prohibit or limit franchisees from serving only high margin communities, it's time to require the major satellite companies (say more 5 million subs) to provide a fully national service, at least for analog and/or an SD version of the primary digital channel.

A national mandate would in turn eliminate the need to use DMAs to implement COCA, and thus service areas could be based on actual grade B contours. And if the service areas were defined to include entire counties and/or zip codes, and DNS eligibility were tied to those same boundaries, the whole testing regimen could be eliminated, and with it all the problems related to the all or nothing nature of digital signals and the impact of various types of interference unrelated to actual signal strength.

(Of course, this would greatly simplify the law, and probably put a number of lawyers, bureaucrats, and technicians out of work, so no doubt there would be plenty of opposition to such a proposal&#8230;.)


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## buddhawood (Nov 4, 2003)

minnow said:


> It's been reported that NPS turns all the receivers on.


Does anyone know this as FACT? The reason I question it is because the waiver form I filled out any ask's and has space for only one receiver number.


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## Shellback X 23 (Sep 19, 2004)

buddhawood said:


> Does anyone know this as FACT? The reason I question it is because the waiver form I filled out any ask's and has space for only one receiver number.


MY RV waiver did not even ask for my receiver numbers, only that I qualified based on HUD qualification that I owned a RV that met their requirements, and my state registration number and expiration date along with a copy of the RV registration. See msg. 67 above re: the process I went through.

New topic: Has any one noticed that the volume of WXIA and WGCL is considerably louder than all the other SD channels (I don't get HD to compare, nor do I have a db meter.) During the Rose Bowl yesterday I happened to switch to Atlanta and got blasted by the sound, went back to SFO and all was fine, also checked WOAI in San Antonio and all was normal.


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## Beardedbosn (Dec 9, 2002)

Shellback X 23 said:


> New topic: Has any one noticed that the volume of WXIA and WGCL is considerably louder than all the other SD channels (I don't get HD to compare, nor do I have a db meter.) During the Rose Bowl yesterday I happened to switch to Atlanta and got blasted by the sound, went back to SFO and all was fine, also checked WOAI in San Antonio and all was normal.


Yes, although I have only noticed the loud, very loud volume increase on CBS East. This time of year I may not have been viewing many of the other network SD feeds.
Chris :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:


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## buddhawood (Nov 4, 2003)

buddhawood said:


> Does anyone know this as FACT? The reason I question it is because the waiver form I filled out any ask's and has space for only one receiver number.


I have the answer to my own question. They do activate ALL the receivers on the account. The form only has space for one but they have access to all the numbers and activate all. I was worried that these channels wouldn't work with my Tivo but I was pleasantly surprised to find out they are on the Tivo guide as well.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

tsmacro said:


> Well I just took the plunge and called to see if I could get waivers to get distants. With E* I had abc-W thanks to a waiver from the Indy affiliate. The other three nets had repeatedly said "no" however. So I call AAS/NPS and get right through. The guy I got on the phone was very pleasant and helpful. I told him my situation and he told me that it would be $3.00 per waiver request or $10.00 for all four. From my previous experience I was tempted just to go for abc, but I figured what the heck i'll go for all four, i've wasted ten bucks on worse things before! :lol: So we go through the info gathering process and then tells me to call back in about a week and half to check the status. I thanked him for his time and hung up. So we shall see how this whole thing works out. I'll be sure to post again in about a week and half to let y'all know how my experience turns out.


Well I just called back two weeks after my initial call and was informed that abc granted my waiver, no real surprise, cbs denied my waiver and the other two were still pending. The CSR told me it could take up to 48 hours for the channels to show up on my receiver but it would more likely happen a lot quicker than that. It's been less than an hour since i've called and they haven't shown up that quickly but when they finally do i'll give my impressions of picture and sound quality. So far this process has gone fairly smoothly for me and pretty much been what i'd expect. Oh and he also told me that if Fox & NBC do happen to approve my waivers (by some miracle :lol: ) that they'd just automatically show up and I wouldn't have to call back to check on the status or get them activated. So far so good i'd say.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

It's 24 hours since I talked to AAS/NPS and still no distant abc's have shown up yet. I've tried a check switch to force it to download and a hard reboot, by unplugging the receiver. I also turned off my receiver over night (as I always do anyway) hoping that maybe they'd appear when I turned on the TV today. Now to be fair the csr did say it could take up to 48 hours but he also said he expected that they'd show up "a lot faster" than that. I guess i'll wait until after work tomorrow and see if my new abc's show up, that'll be beyond the official 48 hour window I was given, plus who knows, maybe it hasn't happened just because it happens to be the weekend.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

tsmacro said:


> It's 24 hours since I talked to AAS/NPS and still no distant abc's have shown up yet. I've tried a check switch to force it to download and a hard reboot, by unplugging the receiver. I also turned off my receiver over night (as I always do anyway) hoping that maybe they'd appear when I turned on the TV today. Now to be fair the csr did say it could take up to 48 hours but he also said he expected that they'd show up "a lot faster" than that. I guess i'll wait until after work tomorrow and see if my new abc's show up, that'll be beyond the official 48 hour window I was given, plus who knows, maybe it hasn't happened just because it happens to be the weekend.


I qualified for all 4 networks with an RV waiver. When I spoke to them, they said had my receiver info from DISH. One receiver was turned on immediately. The second was not on after a day. I called back and they realized they only programmed one to turn on. I gave them the info from the other receiver and it was on in minutes.

Mitch


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I applied last night at 10:00pm online for distants. I used my Aunt's address and my cellphone number and my smart card numbers from my account. I got qualified and today at 10:00am they turned on. I did a check switch and got a full weeks guide on the distants. Easy. My only question is what happens if I want to add another receiver and I want the distants on them too?


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> My only question is what happens if I want to add another receiver and I want the distants on them too?


All you will need to do is call them with the new smart card numbers and they will take care of it. I added a recvr and took another off about a week ago. They had the locals on my new recvr while I was still talking to the CSR. They literaly came on in a about 2 mins after she HIT the recvr.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

tsmacro said:


> It's 24 hours since I talked to AAS/NPS and still no distant abc's have shown up yet. I've tried a check switch to force it to download and a hard reboot, by unplugging the receiver. I also turned off my receiver over night (as I always do anyway) hoping that maybe they'd appear when I turned on the TV today. Now to be fair the csr did say it could take up to 48 hours but he also said he expected that they'd show up "a lot faster" than that. I guess i'll wait until after work tomorrow and see if my new abc's show up, that'll be beyond the official 48 hour window I was given, plus who knows, maybe it hasn't happened just because it happens to be the weekend.


Well i've got my abc distants. I came home from work yesterday and they still weren't there so I got on the phone and they had me do the usual, turn off, unplug, reboot routine. None of that did the trick so on my second call the woman said she'd send a "second hit" to my receiver and sure enough not even 10 mins later there they were. It's kinda cool that the abc east is from Atlanta as I have family there so I can keep up on the news in that area if I want. I've only watched a couple mins of both but from that brief exposure the picture and audio seems fine. Now granted I am watching these on a six year old 27" SDTV so what looks good on my set might not on newer HD sets obviously. All in all the whole process while not flawless was pretty painless and i've got my abc distants back which do come in handy from time to time!


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm kinda curious now how *I* will fare w/ AAD. I've been dragging my heels for over a month now thinking that I most likely am not eligible an will need waivers once again. Using the new mydistants site today I get a response that reads 'need waiver' for all 4 nets. However it doesnt take into account my specific address (ie zipcode with +4), just uses the zipcode alone. Over at anntenaweb.org, I punched in a neighboring address (1 mile away) but still the same zipcode and it comes back w/ a laundry list of stations....however if I punch in *my* address it says 'no stations served'. I dont know if this means I'm truly in a white area or not. Regardless, I must play the waiting game as my receiver sits at the residence which is about 100miles from where I officially live, so I'm gonna hafta make the 2 hr trip down in order to get the card #'s. Plus 2 hr trip back, time spent there, etc. I'll need to find basically 'a day' when I can do this, won't be anytime soon. After having distants for 7 years its hard to 'just watch locals'.


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## splish (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm back home after being away for two months, and I'm now trying to figure how this mydistants web site works, so some questions. I poked around on the site a bit without actually buying the networks and it seems to me that the nets will be turned on if you enter an appropriate address and zip code, and nothing else matters. That is, the web site does not appear to check to see if the name of the individual, address, phone number, etc, is consistent with the Dishnetwork account information. Is my interpretation correct?


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## minnow (Apr 26, 2002)

splish said:


> I'm back home after being away for two months, and I'm now trying to figure how this mydistants web site works, so some questions. I poked around on the site a bit without actually buying the networks and it seems to me that the nets will be turned on if you enter an appropriate address and zip code, and nothing else matters. That is, the web site does not appear to check to see if the name of the individual, address, phone number, etc, is consistent with the Dishnetwork account information. Is my interpretation correct?


No that is not correct. You information will be validated with a company AllAmerican has contracted with to determine network service eligibility for your particular address. If you enter your address and other pertinent information, you will get a quick and preliminary answer. If your eligible, then this then verified again by AllAmerican(NPS) before any service is granted to you.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

The web site does a live verifaction with decisionmark. If you are elgible after entering your name address and phone number then you will be directed to a screen that will tell you what you are elgible for and will ask you to enter upto 10 smart card receiver numbers. After that it asks for you CC info and service is activated in 24 hours. (Suppsedly) 

If your are not elgible then you get the same screen telling you that waivers are 3 bucks a pop. It asks for you smart card numbers and then your cc info to process the request. 

AAD does NOT check to see if you are an existing E* subscriber the 2 companies are independent of each other.

Attached are a couple of screenshots showing a qualified zip and one needing waivers.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

It should be noted that the phone numbers and address that I used are made up on streets that I know are in those 2 zips.


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## splish (Nov 7, 2002)

Does anyone know if these distants can be paid for by using Paypal? Also, cj9788 please check your PM.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Shellback X 23 said:


> MY RV waiver did not even ask for my receiver numbers, only that I qualified based on HUD qualification that I owned a RV that met their requirements, and my state registration number and expiration date along with a copy of the RV registration. See msg. 67 above re: the process I went through.
> 
> New topic: Has any one noticed that the volume of WXIA and WGCL is considerably louder than all the other SD channels (I don't get HD to compare, nor do I have a db meter.) During the Rose Bowl yesterday I happened to switch to Atlanta and got blasted by the sound, went back to SFO and all was fine, also checked WOAI in San Antonio and all was normal.


Yes, I have noticed the volume of those two stations as "too loud." They create some distortion in my sound system which can't be solved by turning the volume down. Also, the video signals offer less constrast than the E* signals. I get the SF locals from E* as well as NPS and can compare the two. This quality issue may not be a problem for many as I feed my stuff through a "receiver" which feeds to a 5.1 sound system and the video signal is "upped" to a component feed to my plasma (all of which is wasted on the NPS signals).

Oddly, I signed up on line 01/02/2007 and was immediately approved for everything but Fox??!!! I don't really need it, but went for a waiver anyway - just curious. I'm on the North Coast of California in a canyon 120 miles from SF stations. When I first moved here, with a 100'+ amplified antenna, could get a snowy signal from SF stations once in a while. Went to a C-band dish for years then to the current Dish Network when the C-band receiver failed. But apparently Fox thinks I'm local? We'll see...


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## DSSfix (Apr 20, 2006)

Does the address, zip and phone number have to be the same address you use with your Dish Network subscription?

Does it have to match your credit card billing address?


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## mhowie (Sep 30, 2006)

DSSfix said:


> Does the address, zip and phone number have to be the same address you use with your Dish Network subscription?
> 
> Does it have to match your credit card billing address?


No to all the above...


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## JD95 (Jan 21, 2007)

okay let me see if I understand this. In my area it needs waivers, even though I am 100 miles away from the my ABC station. Yet town north of me does not need a waiver. I could use a false address, use my cell phone number, and that towns zip and I can get local. Is that right, that is if my waiver does not go though


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

JD95 said:


> okay let me see if I understand this. In my area it needs waivers, even though I am 100 miles away from the my ABC station. Yet town north of me does not need a waiver. I could use a false address, use my cell phone number, and that towns zip and I can get local. Is that right, that is if my waiver does not go though


 Yes.


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## JD95 (Jan 21, 2007)

I went and tried to get ABC, I did go and gave my real address after talking to the sales man, he said that there is more then a 75 percent chance of getting it. He said it will be 7 to 14 days for the waiver to go though.


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## dlp85x (Mar 19, 2004)

I have an interesting situation. I applied for the NPS waivers about a month or so ago, and haven't received any distants yet on my E* account. But, upon checking my online banking, I find a $2.50 charge from NPS dated a few days ago. Hopefully one of my locals approved my waiver. I called the number they had on their website to ask about it, and they said I had to call another phone number for customer service as they only did activations. I'll have to call tomorrow when they are open. I've probably given them the wrong smart card info or something, but I'm sure a waiver was approved if I am being charged $2.50 from them!  I'll update this thread after I get it all sorted out.


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## MotleyFool (Feb 9, 2007)

This is my first post, been reading the threads anonymously for a couple of years.

I travel to Chama New Mexico occasionally so I thought I'd check what was available up there. To get through the online availability system I put in the smart card number from a card sitting in an unused 301 receiver a friend gave me last year. He'd left the card in it, turns out when I looked at it I realized it was an older card, just like the ones I swapped out a couple of years. The online system very happily took the # and approved me for one network, FOX, service. The other networks required a waiver. Of course since I'm in the RV if I really decide to go forward I'll try the RV waiver route.

I wonder if it would really work with a card Dish know longer uses? That would really show their independence from Dish.


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## dlp85x (Mar 19, 2004)

Good news! Upon calling the NPS customer service number, it appears I messed up with the smart card numbers. They fixed it, sent a hit to my receiver, and now I am getting FOX WAGA & KTVU!  This proves my belief that the local FOX station (WTTG Washington) approves every waiver with no questions asked. I live in their grade A signal contour, but they still approved me like they did in '03 with my original waiver request. Its just ironic now because WTTG is FOX O&O, and you know how News Corp. feels about E* and distant networks. Also, one of the stations I now get via waiver (KTVU) is owned by Cox Communications, not FOX itself like WAGA (and the stations I got via waiver before the injunction that were all FOX O&O also. Who knows, maybe even NBC might approve my waiver too also... I remember they let it automatically approve with E* since it took more than 45 days to get it approved.

As for picture quality, the colors are sort of washed out (with a little too much red) on KTVU, and WAGA's colors are a little dull. The sharpness is as good as other E* channels, though. The sound is sort of muddy on KTVU, but on WAGA its normal. Overall, both stations are about identical to how my locals appear on my local cable company (Comcast.) Its a shame they can't be identical to the vibrant & clear channels I get on E*, but its definitely better than nothing since its a distant network ... i'll take anything I can get!


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## Shellback X 23 (Sep 19, 2004)

MotleyFool said:


> This is my first post, been reading the threads anonymously for a couple of years.
> 
> SNIP . . . . The online system very happily took the # and approved me for one network, FOX, service. The other networks required a waiver. Of course since I'm in the RV if I really decide to go forward I'll try the RV waiver route.


I think you will find the RV Waiver the easy way to go. Just a copy of the RV Registration and the completed download able form faxed to NPS. Faxing is the only delivery method permitted. For some reason they were concerned about the registration expiration date, be prepared to fax the renewal when you get it.


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## MotleyFool (Feb 9, 2007)

Shellback X 23 said:


> I think you will find the RV Waiver the easy way to go.
> SNIP


Yep, it sounds pretty straight forward.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

slightly off-topic: I put in for my AAD Waivers but I havent gotten anything as of yet. I was wondering if anyone who already has this package could tape a game for me next weekend? Theres a game on NBC Sanfran that i need, if anyone can help me out, PM me.

thanks


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## rjhughes (Dec 19, 2006)

Dish replaced my 508 that crashed (typical software/hardware problems) and I made two calls to NPS; the first was to ask the procedure they had to change out a receiver and the second to do the actual change. Both times I got through with a very short wait to a knowledgable CSR. The CSR for the second call, Sue, was very thorough and did not rush to get off the line until she was sure the hit took. The first couple attempts would not add the distants and she knew how to troubleshoot the issues and third time was the charm. 

Good job, NPS!


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## Ohioankev (Jan 19, 2006)

rjhughes said:


> Dish replaced my 508 that crashed (typical software/hardware problems) and I made two calls to NPS; the first was to ask the procedure they had to change out a receiver and the second to do the actual change. Both times I got through with a very short wait to a knowledgable CSR. The CSR for the second call, Sue, was very thorough and did not rush to get off the line until she was sure the hit took. The first couple attempts would not add the distants and she knew how to troubleshoot the issues and third time was the charm.
> 
> Good job, NPS!


WCGL (CBS) seems to be having issues right now as there are black bars on the left and right side of my screen. Reminds me of when i had HDTV and ESPNHD was airing SD programming and on the sides they had somekind of logo while the picture was in the middle of the screen.


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