# 7100/7200 users need to standup and demand answers



## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

I am the proud owner of two Orginal Dishplayers aka model 7100/7200.
I am not stupid I know that for a large percentage of the mysterous unsubbed boxes are being hacked do to the fact that dish network can not ecm them because of microsoft which has made them the ultimate icon in the hacking community. 
But I have two of them that are subscribed and not used in any illegal activities. 

But a couple of things are bothering me and I simple cant get answers from anyone. Not DP support group or any one else up the food chain about The support for the Dish 500 cards aka the Yellow card Which are found in 301.13s and other newer models. Everything I have read and heard over the phone is that there is no plans on making the DPs dish 500 card compatible or supporting Superdish. While I could care less about superdish though it a valid concern for people that are getting locals now on one of the two new birds that dish net uses for superdish. I am concern about what they are going to do. When there dtv like card swap completes what are they going to do totally kill off the Nagravision 1 encyprtion stream leaving users up well you know what creek. Are they going to swap out irds. As I will refuse anything but a 721. As the 721 is the only ird I personally belive to be a replacement for the 7x00s Why do I keep 7x00s A. The interface it one of the best I seen and it was so good that They copied alot of it from what I seen with a 721 and 921 demo units. The search and record functions totally blow away the 50x series of recivers. Basicly I ill refuse any ird swapout unless they exchange it for a 721. 

I am tired of the plan of lack of answers coming from dishnetwork about these recivers. Dishnetwork has updated almost all the recivers to accept the new nagravision cards featuring the new nagravision 2 decyprtion Heck even the old 2700 supports it now. Except for reports for a few old odd ball recievers not quite working out unconfirm reports of the model 1000 and the 2200 so far. 

Basicly I want answers and I think all orginal DP users need to set there foot down right here in this thread and voice ther concern about the lack of information and the constant spreading of misinformation that goes on there I want solid answers from a company that I have come to respect and love.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

For what it is worth, I have not been able to get any answers on this either. Even my most reliable contacts can't provide any information on what is going to happen once the nagravision 1 decryption stream is turned off.

SOMEONE at DISH knows the answer but they sure are keeping that information VERY private. I agree with you that DISH should let us know the future of our DishPlayers (models 7100 and 7200).


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

There are less than 100,000 of them still in use. I heard its impossible to kill them from hacking.

perhaps they will finally offer a swap out justr to be rid of the hackers?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree with you Bob Haller, I think they will swap them out stating that they cannot be used with the new cards when they will be capable of being used with them, they will just say that to get rid of them so they can end the hacking issues.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

The problem I still see is thatI will not accept a 501/508/511/522 as a replacement. It is either a 721 or nothing the two main reasons I keep them is the interface and the fact that I can stick a 120 gig drive into them. With out going out of my way to get it to work.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well since the 721 is discontinued, it will probably have to be a 510. I would hope that Dish does the honorable thing and upgrades them for free (well maybe a 1 year AT60 commit). They could probably make back the money via the $5/month extra fee.

Dish has to update their encryption, the theft of the signal is getting out of hand. Old recievers eventually have to die. This is a flaw in the DBS business model. You make people buy hardware that one day they are going to have to replace. I expect Dish to make updates eventually to their compression schemes. This could outdate even more boxes.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Mike123abc said:


> Well since the 721 is discontinued, it will probably have to be a 510. I would hope that Dish does the honorable thing and upgrades them for free (well maybe a 1 year AT60 commit). They could probably make back the money via the $5/month extra fee.
> 
> Dish has to update their encryption, the theft of the signal is getting out of hand. Old recievers eventually have to die. This is a flaw in the DBS business model. You make people buy hardware that one day they are going to have to replace. I expect Dish to make updates eventually to their compression schemes. This could outdate even more boxes.


I dont think we will see an change in there compression schemes as they have always been a mpeg2 compress dvb service. I dont think they will change the compression as it would effect all irds. But encyprtion is another thing.

I refuse to accept any 5x0 box as the ui if awful it just like my 301s. it great for just viewing a guide but not for a dvr box. I think that we all try to get on charlie chat next month and press the issue with charlie.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

To some of us diehard DP lovers, it would be like a doctor telling you your wife is OK, but he can't keep updating her 'software' and she will have to be replaced with a newer, but less desireable unit -- this after 4-5 years of marriage, and just when you've finally got her functioning smoothly. 

Well, maybe that's not such a good analogy after all. :sure:


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

No Nick that sounds about write. DP owners finally get a bleeping break. I am very happy with the latest software I have not seen my dp works so fast also It got rid of the black little dips in service I think they might be power related as it so popular to upgrade the drive in them. Since it easy I move both dps from internal where i was getting short 2 sec black outs to an external hot swap drive bay with its own power supply and it seemed to fix my problem.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

One more note we DP owners need to stand up for our boxes. they may be old and some times buggy but we still love them.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

stonecold said:


> I dont think we will see an change in there compression schemes as they have always been a mpeg2 compress dvb service. I dont think they will change the compression as it would effect all irds. But encyprtion is another thing.


Actually they can change the compression parameters and it will still be DVB/MPEG-2, but could make more requirements on the decoding hardware. Increasing compression could require more memory in the decoding chipset or more processing speed to keep up. By adding more B frames and stretching the distance between I frames, they could obsolete older chipsets.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah but I just dont see them changing spec and knocking out 100,000 plus older model recivers . Something like that would affect all non opentv compatible recivers with the exception of the 6000, that I just dont see happening. I some popular ird would end up going out the window, 2700,2800,3700 ( all the same darn ird just a different model number ) Not to forget the greyboxes (known for the just huge size) 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000. I would not even start to figure out who might be still holding on to a subbed 1000 or 2200(which the 2200 is a uhf remote reicver if i am not mistaken.) That is a huge large bulk of dish net subscribers even tough I know there are tons of 3800/3900/4700/4900/301s..... The 2700 was a popular model in it later years because of it low price tag and is still being sold in other markets. Bell Expressvu still bundles 2700s with 301s aka 3100 and the 508 aka 5800. but that was getting off track. 

By the way does anyone here have a greybox aka 30/35/40/45/5000 reciver I have heard that dish net still playing around with the firmware I seen reports of people saying that oneday that there sysinfo screen said Dish500 card ready. and then the next it was gone. Because dish came back with another software rollback. I saw this happen on my friens 2700 till they all straighten out and now they have it completely working right.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Ok lets look at it this way, assume:

1. You can add more B frames and increase compression 8%, enough to add one more LIL channel per your spot channels

2. Doing so will knock out 300,000 boxes with older chipsets.

3. Replacing the boxes (assume non PVRs) costs dish $100 each (including tech to come to house and install for you).

Ok Dish has 50 CONUS transponders, 8% more capacity would be 4 more transponders worth of bandwidth. They would be paying $100 X 300,000 or $30million. This would be extreamly cheap for Dish. This is probably also an inflated cost and number of boxes. They could really UPS out boxes and have customers just switch them out and only send out a tech in a few cases.

This of course assumes that Dish would come up with a way to increase compression that older boxes could not handle. It may never happen. But, if it did happen, Dish could do it without much problem.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Mike your numbers are way off.

out of the 12 million or so customers of dishnet I highly doubt that 11million 700 thousand customers are using a 3800 aka ( upgraded 3900 in sysinfo) or higher. 

So while it may seem like it a cheaper option but it isnt.


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## rvd420 (Mar 10, 2003)

Dish could just let the 7x00's run, keep the nagravision 1 encryption. 
And just update all other receivers that can use nagra type 2 to work on nagra type 2 only.
This way all IRDs that can work on Nagra type 2 will only work on nagra type 2. And the few hundred thousnad that can't work on nagra type 2 will still run on nagra type 1. (one would think that only a few hundred thousand IRDs that can be hacked, and most of them is legit subs hands that the piracy rate would be "acceptable"


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

stonecold said:


> Mike your numbers are way off.
> 
> out of the 12 million or so customers of dishnet I highly doubt that 11million 700 thousand customers are using a 3800 aka ( upgraded 3900 in sysinfo) or higher.
> 
> So while it may seem like it a cheaper option but it isnt.


What are you talking about? If you note in the post I was talking about replacing up to 300,000 older recievers... That would mean that the rest were newer recievers and would not have a problem. There is probably less than 300,000 older recievers. We are talking 1000s/2000s.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

The mpeg decorder on the 2700 is the same as the 2200. I should know I have taken apart enough irds to last me a life time.. So you blanket statement holds no barrings. so now we can now ditch out the 2700 3700 and the 2800. 

The grey boxes uses a different decoder chip but it depends on how much you really plan on compressing the video. 

Besides this is getting offtopic this is about the 7200 with features a mpeg decoder chip more than capable of handling in the specs.

Sorry This thread is about the DPs .... not if dishnetwork will compress the signal more and make older decoder chips no work. 

So basicly what this boils down to is if 

A. is MS working on making the dp nagra2 compatible.
b. if they decided to swap out irds will people like my grandmother who uses the webtv function bet both a new dvr and webtv unit.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think Dish would still make the old receivers usable for some channels but if they needed additional channels to send them a new receiver in which would probably be a remanufactured receiver or a 111.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

I mean Even the oldest of old recievers have gotten updates that show support for superdish. And the lease on the 105 spot is like 10 years. I think that this ird swap out idea would be a bigger idea in 10 years when they have slowly over time offered say promotions to upgrade customers recivers with a two year comment to at60 or at100 ( i dont know what the new name for it is)


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Since E didnt update DPs for superdish I think thety are on their way out.

Hey the replacement box is free with a 2 year commitment and the $5 a month DVR fee.

Remember some are still paying $10 a month so $5 will be a bargain.

I sold my DPs but still miss them, nicest box ever owned.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Bob:

E* has me on record that they can go kiss my three letter word for butt when it comes to replacing my 7200s with 501/508/511/522. I hate the ui and I dont like them either. I want a 721 for exchange or it is a no go for me.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

stonecold said:


> Bob:
> 
> E* has me on record that they can go kiss my three letter word for butt when it comes to replacing my 7200s with 501/508/511/522. I hate the ui and I dont like them either. I want a 721 for exchange or it is a no go for me.


Well you had better surf over to directv.com and start picking out your new TiVo. A 510 is most likely what they would offer since it is the current one they are making, plus they get the $5/month fee that makes up for "giving" you a replacement reciever.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

stonecold, you shouldn't lump the 522 in with the rest of the 5xx line. It has 2 tuners and its UI is actually more similar to the DP than the 721's. Menus have PIP instead of being overlaid on the picture, this includes the Search menu which btw has a history log that saves you from having to re-type future searches. Now if only Dish would enable Single mode and make it available to owners.
522 info: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/305


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The 721 is the closest thing to the 7100/7200 DishPlayer when it comes to the interface. I think a 522 would be a fair trade for those DishPlayers considering the larger hard drive size and two tuners as well as 200 ft UHF remote range for the second tuner and no second tuner fee when connected to a phone line, although you cannot upgrade the hard drive in the new DVR's without going through a bit of hassle.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> The 721 is the closest thing to the 7100/7200 DishPlayer when it comes to the interface. I think a 522 would be a fair trade for those DishPlayers considering the larger hard drive size and two tuners as well as 200 ft UHF remote range for the second tuner and no second tuner fee when connected to a phone line, although you cannot upgrade the hard drive in the new DVR's without going through a bit of hassle.


I'm forseeing, that is I guess, there will be a 521 in the future (called by some a 523 but this does not fit in with their recent numbering scheme, where the last number is the # of distinct TV outputs). This would basically be the 522 with the stuff for the 2nd TV removed, and it would run on the 522 single mode software.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I kinda doubt that. E should do whatr direct has done and discontinue ALL single tuner DVRs. A extra tuner and output never hurts.


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## Roger Tee (Feb 22, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> I kinda doubt that. E should do whatr direct has done and discontinue ALL single tuner DVRs. A extra tuner and output never hurts.


Bob: They never had a single tuner DVR that I know of. E* had the first integrated unit, as I recall it D* sold some dual tuner models that needed to wait for a software upgrade to use the second tuner but the Ultimate TV and/or the DirecTivo.

If I am remembering wrong feel free to correct me.

TTFN


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

there were some D TIVIOs with UHF remotes and single tuners, they might have been phillips


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I also doubt that they will come out with a 521 receiver since they already have the 522. Instead of going backwards coming out with a one tuner DVR in the same version instead I can seem them adding tuners to them. Notice how the 322 is not any bigger than the 311 when it has an additional tuner. 

They could add additional tuners to the receivers for $50 for each tuner based upon what they charged extra for the 322 vs. the 311 and the 522 vs. the 510 which is not a bad deal. Perhaps they could have four tuner receivers for $100 more than what the two tuner receivers currently cost. They could add some additional hard drive space into the DVR receivers for all four tuners to share.

Additional tuners can be used for more than television viewing, it could be used for downloading data among other things in the future. There would not be as many uses for an additional tuner now as there would be in the future for more applications we may not even be able to even think of. They could also make the tuners that is not in use to do this. The additional information could be stored on the hard drive. As hard drives get bigger there could be data transmitted to the hard drive, and perhaps this could be used for interactive content that is updated every so often that goes beyond what we have now.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Oh the future of DBS with whole house servers. The astumbling block is making them reliable because a bug could take out all the tv viewing in the house Real VOD and lots of other features will change DBS forever


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

I seen the reports of both E* and D* pushing for standards and regulations for two way dbs service which would allow true VOD etc.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

They need to make receivers upgradable to where you can attach additional memory, tuners, hard drives, etc if the receivers had slots to connect them into.

Wouldn't two way DBS be expensive or could they just use the phoneline somehow to do it to keep costs down? Perhaps if they would be able to transmit signals back to satellite that would not interfere with the other satellites then that would resolve some of the problems perhaps just having little pulses of information. They could also use this to determine if all the recievers were at the right location and if they are being hacked or not by requiring all receivers to send a command back to the satellite in order to keep services active.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> I also doubt that they will come out with a 521 receiver since they already have the 522. Instead of going backwards coming out with a one tuner DVR in the same version instead I can seem them adding tuners to them. Notice how the 322 is not any bigger than the 311 when it has an additional tuner.


No you all don't understand. Let's break down model numbers

522: The "5" means standard PVR. The "2" means 2 tuners. The "2" means two TVs
521: The "5" means standard PVR. The "2" means 2 tuners. The "1" means one TV
721: The "7" means linux PVR. The "2" means 2 tuners. The "1" means one TV
311: The "3" means standard rcv'r. The "1" means 1 tuner. The "1" means one TV

Other models such as 301 do not follow this convention but all future models are supposed to.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Just for the "record" the OS of the 522 and 322 receivers is Linux (as is the 721 as Mike has noted). I have heard that all future Echostar DVRs will have Linux as their OS.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah Dish is finally geting in league with replay and tivo. As using a Microsoft OS did not help them any in the orginal Dishplayer


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## steveo70 (Feb 9, 2004)

What gets me is why old,slow,ugly boxes like the 2000 and the 3000 are now "Dish500 Card Ready" but the Dishplayers and the 5000 are not? I love My Dishplayer(LEGAL) better than my 501 or 301 and I dont want another 5xx. The excuse is that software is Microsoft, But what about the 5000? its all E*. and for those who say that its because the 7200 are a hackers best friend and E* want to get rid of them. Throw the 721 and 6000 in with it. They aren't fetching high prices on ebay cause they are great receivers. they too are hackers best friend. Both of Those receivers are still being sold and with Yellow Dish500 card to beat. back to the original question ,I would like someone at E* to give a straight answer if all their receivers will be "Dish500 Card Ready".


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## rvd420 (Mar 10, 2003)

steveo70 said:


> What gets me is why old,slow,ugly boxes like the 2000 and the 3000 are now "Dish500 Card Ready" but the Dishplayers and the 5000 are not? I love My Dishplayer(LEGAL) better than my 501 or 301 and I dont want another 5xx. The excuse is that software is Microsoft, But what about the 5000? its all E*. and for those who say that its because the 7200 are a hackers best friend and E* want to get rid of them. Throw the 721 and 6000 in with it. They aren't fetching high prices on ebay cause they are great receivers. they too are hackers best friend. Both of Those receivers are still being sold and with Yellow Dish500 card to beat. back to the original question ,I would like someone at E* to give a straight answer if all their receivers will be "Dish500 Card Ready".


Sooner or later all receivers will be Dish500 Card Ready.
You gotta look at it this way. the 7x00's took so damn long to get them farily stable. I really think dish is gonna take their time in writing new firmware for the 7x00.

I would also expect a more hacker resistant firmware in the future.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> The 721 is the closest thing to the 7100/7200 DishPlayer when it comes to the interface. I think a 522 would be a fair trade for those DishPlayers considering the larger hard drive size and two tuners as well as 200 ft UHF remote range for the second tuner and no second tuner fee when connected to a phone line, although you cannot upgrade the hard drive in the new DVR's without going through a bit of hassle.


It sounds like the definition of "fair" is getting a new receier with more features than the old one.


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## Tom_P (May 8, 2002)

This I hate, a 510 for my Dp and a 2 year contract plus the $5 fee? No thanks. I did get a 1 year for with the At-50, the HD Pack and paid $199 for my 6000, but that was a good offer, and I got something that I really wanted, High Definition.
The Dishplayer guide is my favorite, and believe I have used them all. I'll be better off selling it at ebay. I've been a subscriber since 1998 and at an average of over $85 monthly over 7 years, well you do the math, we deserve better.


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