# FROM DISH: L182 fixes (and what's not yet fixed)



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

We didn't make it with the OTA fixes. At the time that Renee made the announcement on the tech forum last week, things were looking pretty good that the OTA fixes would make it into this release. But, another couple of OTA issues became apparant late last week in testing that precluded the complete fix being done. The OTA issues do remain the priority of the 921 team, and they are very close. Should be very soon. *If you need to complain about it, do it in the Dish DVR forum, not here please. I've already made sure that everyone that reads this forum knows how you feel about this news.*

What this version does fix:

L182 adds support for the Sirius music channels (which is why it is downloading today).

L182 should fix the modem answering the phone.

L182 squashes 2 more causes of the random gray screen of death reboots.

For what it's worth, I've had L182 since Friday afternoon, and have not had to rescan the OTA channels a single time since it installed. YMMV.

This is from me, not Dish - After L182 is installed, if you have problems with your OTA channels ("Channel Not Found" messages), force a reboot, delete your channel list and rescan. If you are in an area that has a channel that is very problematic to add to your 921, and are concerned that if you delete it you won't be able to get it back, force the reboot, and then individually add back the channels giving the error message.

I didn't have to reboot my 921 when I had this installed. Once again, YMMV.

Please title all bug reports from today on, BUG REPORT L182:


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Did some OTA fixes get in?

So they are planning another quick release when the OTA fixes are complete?

Thanks for the update


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

is adding OTA channel info still on the list of fixes???


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

David - I was told that they didn't get in, but I'm having much less trouble with L182 than I did with L181 or the beta before L181. So, I dunno. Maybe. The big one isn't in there yet, though - I know that for sure.

The plan as I know it is another release just as soon as the remaining OTA issues are resolved. Could be Friday, could be 3 weeks from Thursday. Hard to say at this point. I'm not treading the party line here when I say that they're close.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Mark - OTA guide data is slated by the end of June.


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## rrg (Dec 19, 2003)

Is this for-real OTA guide info, like what's provided in DirecTV's Advanced Program Guide, or is it some sort of piggybacking on the guide info for the Dish locals? And if it's the latter, will it be usable by people who don't subscribe to locals?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Mark - OTA guide data is slated by the end of June.


When they refer to OTA guide data, are they referring to all markets, or just re-mapping locals for existing makets? I hope that question made sense.... I've heard both ways, but any clarification would be greatly appreciated...


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I *think* it's going to be for-real OTA guide data info, but don't know that for sure. I base that on what Dave Kummer told me back in December, and what I've been told by a couple of other people that aren't on vacation more recently.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Mark Jackson told me it was going to be baed off the piggybacked OTA channels uplinked by Dish. If Dish does not carry locals for your area then you still will not have OTA guide data on the 921.

I will be meeting with everyone from Dish later this week, hopefully I can get this clarified for everyone.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Any clues as to what were the two issues that triggered reboots? I still get the GSOD about 4 times a week and am wondering if any particular behaviors are more prone to problems.....


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

So there I was thinking I'll decide based on the next release and nothing has improved that affects me directly (except maybe it will crash and reboot a little less frequently). I'm really trying to hang in here, but my HD TiVo (which I've never had to worry about what channel I leave it on and has yet to mess up simultanous recordings, be they OTA or SAT, and has never changed the day of its timers when edited, etc.) is really starting to marginalize my 921.

Before I saw the list of uninteresting things that were fixed (Oh boy, they added a new music feature instead of fixing promised stuff that doesn't work!) I set up two SAT timers and left it live on an OTA channel. Looks like it wedged one of the tuners. After 10 minutes of wrestling with it and tuning into black screens, UNK 77-0, garbage, etc., I'm forced to reboot it. I do so, now all my locals are "Not Found" and tuning to any satellite channel gives me a black screen.

I had to go back to the satellite signal strength meter. It was listing 119 and some bizarrre zip code. After 10 seconds or so it registered 110 and my correct zip code and normal signal strength. Figured I'd do a Switch Check to kind of reset things.

Exit that, back to HDNet movies, sort of, the picture is freezing/breaking up constantly (Signal strength was 93). Tune up to ESPN HD. Black screen. Tune to HBOHD. Black screen. Press Record to tie up the tuner. Picture appears and is normal! Huh? 

OK, now I can tune other Sat channels, but OTA still not found. Guess I'll have it scan them again. Now I get a black screen with no "Not Found" message. Oh wait, tune to another one, now I seem to be getting OTA channels.

Cool, stop the recording of HBOHD, then tune to HDNET. Damn. Black screen again for 60 seconds, then flashing couple of still frames from the last OTA channel I was watching. Then still frame. HDNET Movies? Black screen. Try recording it. Oh, now there is a picture. And I can tune to HDNet and ESPNHD again.

What a great new update!


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Scott- What you said is what they said on the Tech forum last week.

Three cheers for the entire E* team, to include you beta testers. With all the bad posts around the forum, some have assumed E* has abandoned the 921. Certainly not so. Thanks, Mark for all your efforts. Your updates on this is most appreciated.

GSOD- fixes, like shooting in a shooting gallery. I hope they soon get them all. I had a bnad one Sunday night, only 5 days since the previous one and the frequency seems to be increasing, so I look forward to each release. I'm about ready to play Simple Simon's game of a forced reboot every day when it's convenient, not when it will divide my recordings in half.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Mark Jackson told me it was going to be baed off the piggybacked OTA channels uplinked by Dish. If Dish does not carry locals for your area then you still will not have OTA guide data on the 921.
> 
> I will be meeting with everyone from Dish later this week, hopefully I can get this clarified for everyone.


Ah, clairication would be a great thing.... If it is just subscription local's data, then I'm guessing there would be no sub-channel OTA data.... Inquiring minds really want to know....


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Any clues as to what were the two issues that triggered reboots? I still get the GSOD about 4 times a week and am wondering if any particular behaviors are more prone to problems.....


Specifically, I don't know. I do know that both of these conditions were ones that built up "to the breaking point" over a period of days, and then forced the gsod.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

From what I can gather, it sounds like this release is primarily intended for the new music channels, and anything that the 921 team felt was safe to piggy back onto the release. It doesn't sound like this release date was set by the 921 team for bug fixes. We certainly appreciate whatever they can give us, and hope that the next one will be focused on the issues we want to attack.

On a high note, KBHK (UPN), in the SF Bay area now works on the 921. We don't know what they did at the transmitter, but it is great to finally have it!


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

Cheezmo said:


> So there I was thinking I'll decide based on the next release and nothing has improved that affects me directly (except maybe it will crash and reboot a little less frequently). I'm really trying to hang in here, but my HD TiVo (which I've never had to worry about what channel I leave it on and has yet to mess up simultanous recordings, be they OTA or SAT, and has never changed the day of its timers when edited, etc.) is really starting to marginalize my 921.


May I ask why you have both of these DVR's?
I am rather curious as to why you are hanging onto a YUGO when you have a Lexus parked next to it.

I gave up on the 921, sold it and now have an HD TIVO.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I just decided this evening, based on the continued pain of the 921, to return it. I'm going to use the money to buy a 300Gb add on drive for my HD TiVo.

I was holding on to the 921 because I had delusions that it would become useable. I figured with both, I'd be covered if one company added more channels before the other, etc. But it's just too much hassle. Every time I try to use the 921, I end up rescanning local channels, trying to get the HD output back on, praying that OTA timers will actually work. etc.

Even though I've only had the TiVo for a 3 or 4 days, it hasn't caused me more than 5 minutes of grief, mainly from unfamiliarity with the interface. It hasn't failed to record what I want to, it turns on and off properly, I can leave it on whatever channel I want (and turned on), it doesn't reboot randomly, etc.

Bye!


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## angiodan (Sep 2, 2002)

If I didn't live in a Pegasus area, I would be having similar thoughts. I have been fortunate that all my Sat timers fire perfectly, I just can't watch any OTA. 

I still feel that we should not be paying any VOD fee for this unit until the OTA bugs are fixed. Dish should step up to the plate and waive this until they have a stable unit.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't get the need for moooooooore musak channels. Nice to explore more but I really don't get it. One exception- My wife thought it was nice to have the Christmas music channel playing when we put the tree up last year.

OTA Guide- I checked out the VOOM guide info and what I saw they listed for my locals is about 25% wrong anyway. They even have a bogus channel with program s listed that doesn't exist. I have always said that these OTA guides will not be perfect anyway. IMHO, having local guide info will be more of wrapping on the gift than real substance. *I believe that when it finally gets here, it will be so inaccurate, that Mark will have a New Rule. "No posting of Local OTA guide inaccuracies as a Bug" *


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> I have always said that these OTA guides will not be perfect anyway. IMHO, having local guide info will be more of wrapping on the gift than real substance. *I believe that when it finally gets here, it will be so inaccurate, that Mark will have a New Rule. "No posting of Local OTA guide inaccuracies as a Bug" *


I have only had my HD TIVO for 2 days but the OTA guide looks acurate to me.
If they can do it right, why can't VOOM or DISH do it right?

Joe


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

From what I can tell L182 fixed absolutely NOTHING.

I still loose the same 2 OTA channels each day. I tried deleting them and re-adding, no luck, the same channel disappeared in 10 minutes. 

I still can't see or add OTA channels to my favorites list.

USDTV channels still add themselves to my list automatically. If I go in and delete them, they reappear within minutes.

I still cannot record PBS-HD. I get a 0 seconds length recording.


If they hadn't added the Sirius channels to take my mind off all this I would be more unhappy than I am right now I suppose.


Oh well, perhaps I will see a few less GSOD's than usual but thats to be seen I suppose.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

ibglowin said:


> ... If they hadn't added the Sirius channels to take my mind off all this I would be more unhappy than I am right now I suppose.
> 
> Oh well, perhaps I will see a few less GSOD's than usual but thats to be seen I suppose.


Maybe fewer GSOD's is you don't try to listen to Siri channels. I've found several new GSOD's just in that.


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> Maybe fewer GSOD's is you don't try to listen to Siri channels. I've found several new GSOD's just in that.


I'm with you Simon - I've had 3 GSOD's in 3 hours while cruising the
new Sirius channels. That's a new record for me.

I like the Sirius content, but hate the instability. Seems that it can
just detect series finalies, as it ate the begining of Angel... Hey, it wasn't
recording at the time I was messing with it - I'm not THAT stupid. That's 
just how long it took to install L182 and then reboot yet again.

The Favorites menu needs to list the more specific title for the Sirius
and Muzak channels. They're completely unlabled other that CD or SIRI
and a number. I had to go back-and-forth between the Program Guide
and the Favorites menu to enable those Sirius channels I might be 
interested in.

Regards,
K^2


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

So Mark, Don, and other 921 owners....
Questions: 
Are you guys getting paid for your ongoing beta testing? 
When do you expect a stable product to ship?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

JMikeF said:


> So Mark, Don, and other 921 owners....
> Questions:
> Are you guys getting paid for your ongoing beta testing?
> When do you expect a stable product to ship?


Nope, purely volunteer effort on my part.

Can't answer your other question because there isn't a good answer for it. Parts are stable now. Parts will be more stable after the next release. Parts will be more stable than that after the release after next...etc until everything works.


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## fox200 (Mar 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Nope, purely volunteer effort on my part.
> 
> Can't answer your other question because there isn't a good answer for it. Parts are stable now. Parts will be more stable after the next release. Parts will be more stable than that after the release after next...etc until everything works.


 Part's are stable now? I'm not complaining, because I really like the 921 
when it's working, but I'm averaging about 1 replacement unit per month.
I'm receiving my 4th RA unit on Saturday. I don't record much. I like the pause live T.V. feature best. Current problem is lost satellite reception. Check switch can't find satellites (but their there). Of course Dish can't get
it to work either. Whenever I turn it on I want to hold my breath. If I don't
see the blue lite right away, then there's trouble.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I'm still on my original 921 from January 2004. I've dodged most of the hardware issues so far, but in fairness I don't have the OTA tuner hooked up to an antenna yet. Occasional GSOD (about 4 a week). Minor nuisance and never miss more than a few minutes of anything. Most of my reboots are triggered when watching recorded shows. Occasional 0 sec. recordings on CBS-HD but since I only watch King of Queens and the occasional Letterman show it isn't too big of a hardship. I have redundant timers set up for critical HD timers just in case (Sopranos, etc.) but they haven't burped on those so I just delete them....


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

fox200 said:


> Part's are stable now? I'm not complaining, because I really like the 921
> when it's working, but I'm averaging about 1 replacement unit per month.
> I'm receiving my 4th RA unit on Saturday. I don't record much. I like the pause live T.V. feature best. Current problem is lost satellite reception. Check switch can't find satellites (but their there). Of course Dish can't get
> it to work either. Whenever I turn it on I want to hold my breath. If I don't
> see the blue lite right away, then there's trouble.


That sounds extremely suspicious to me. I've never had a single problem like that with mine, and I'm still on my first unit. Have you tried plugging the unit into an electrical line conditioner, or a UPS to make sure that the 921 is powered by clean power without any weird spikes on it?? What kind of switch do you have? Does it have its own power supply, or is it one where the 921 biases the lnb? (ie, a switch with four outputs generally need their own separate power supply, but a switch 21 is powered by the 921) That in itself could cause problems you are seeing. Haven't some people here on this board mentioned problems with switch 34s working one way, but not the other.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

BobMurdoch said:


> Occasional GSOD (about 4 a week). Minor nuisance and never miss more than a few minutes of anything.


Mine is doing much better. I've got the OTA setup, I do recordings for OTA and satellite both. I've only had the GSOD once since January. I thought it was an interesting anomaly to see a linux screen on my TV. Never happened again though.


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## fox200 (Mar 21, 2004)

jsanders said:


> That sounds extremely suspicious to me. I've never had a single problem like that with mine, and I'm still on my first unit. Have you tried plugging the unit into an electrical line conditioner, or a UPS to make sure that the 921 is powered by clean power without any weird spikes on it?? What kind of switch do you have? Does it have its own power supply, or is it one where the 921 biases the lnb? (ie, a switch with four outputs generally need their own separate power supply, but a switch 21 is powered by the 921) That in itself could cause problems you are seeing. Haven't some people here on this board mentioned problems with switch 34s working one way, but not the other.


Normal house power outlet. I have 2 computers and other receivers with no problems. Each time I get a new unit it works fine for about 5 weeks or so then sometime goes wrong with 1 or both satellite tuners. OTA still works fine. I do use a DP34 switch.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

jsanders said:


> On a high note, KBHK (UPN), in the SF Bay area now works on the 921. We don't know what they did at the transmitter, but it is great to finally have it!


Hmm. I just tried to add KBHK 45 manually - strong signal, save, nada, same as always.

What magic incantation/dance did you do to get it added?

Cheers,
-Keith


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

keitheva said:


> Hmm. I just tried to add KBHK 45 manually - strong signal, save, nada, same as always.
> 
> What magic incantation/dance did you do to get it added?
> 
> ...


Hi Keith,

I didn't try to manually add it. I just scanned the digital channels, and it magicaly appeared! It is great, my 921 even recorded "Enterprise" in HD last night!

Let me know if you get it to work. BobL was the first to mention that it came back up. He said the KBHK engineers were finally getting a PSIP generator, but it wasn't hooked up yet. Nobody seemed to know why the 921 was able to receive it, because nothing supposedly changed yet. I had to manually enter the call letters, and that is about it. It might be possible as well that it was scannable a couple of days ago and is no longer scannable, that it works for me because it is still in my channel database. Who knows.... I hope you get it to work. Others with "problem" stations have said adding a few times in a row seemed to do the trick....


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

jsanders said:


> Hi Keith,
> 
> I didn't try to manually add it. I just scanned the digital channels, and it magicaly appeared! It is great, my 921 even recorded "Enterprise" in HD last night!
> 
> Let me know if you get it to work. BobL was the first to mention that it came back up. He said the KBHK engineers were finally getting a PSIP generator, but it wasn't hooked up yet. Nobody seemed to know why the 921 was able to receive it, because nothing supposedly changed yet. I had to manually enter the call letters, and that is about it. It might be possible as well that it was scannable a couple of days ago and is no longer scannable, that it works for me because it is still in my channel database. Who knows.... I hope you get it to work. Others with "problem" stations have said adding a few times in a row seemed to do the trick....


Well I never, I just kept adding it, and after the 4th try it worked! So what changed between attempt 3 and 4? Maybe the wind changed direction or the gravitational pull from Jupiter increased slightly. Who knows. How on earth they can debug this thing with such indeterminate behaviour is beyond me (hence the need for a couple of pints at lunchtime for the Eldon boys).

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
-Keith


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

keitheva said:


> Well I never, I just kept adding it, and after the 4th try it worked! So what changed between attempt 3 and 4? Maybe the wind changed direction or the gravitational pull from Jupiter increased slightly. Who knows. How on earth they can debug this thing with such indeterminate behaviour is beyond me (hence the need for a couple of pints at lunchtime for the Eldon boys).
> -Keith


Wow! Sounds like your describing an episode of Star Trek! Maybe it depends on what episode is showing on KBHK at the moment or something. When they are beaming something about tachion (sp??) bursts that get interpreted as some PSIP bits or something... Anyway, I'm glad you got it. Cheers! :goodjob:


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

fox200 said:


> Normal house power outlet. I have 2 computers and other receivers with no problems. Each time I get a new unit it works fine for about 5 weeks or so then sometime goes wrong with 1 or both satellite tuners. OTA still works fine. I do use a DP34 switch.


Maybe the 921 has a weaker constitution (power supply) than your other receivers and computers. I dunno, couldn't hurt to put some sort of power line cleanser in there just to make sure. I don't use one either. I'm only using legacy sw21s on my setup. Is it at all possible to just run your dish 500 straight to the 921 and bypass the switches somehow? Probably not if you have other receivers. The odds of having 4 921s in so many months really makes it seem like there is some intermittant, destructive force somewhere..


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## muenchris (Jan 16, 2004)

Mark, you are saying they worked on the modem drivers again - well they messed them up again:-( Until 181 my caller ID was working fine (starting with 149 before that time it did not work either). Now its gone again.... do you know about this?
I did not have the problem that the 912 picked up the phone ....ever.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

muenchris said:


> Mark, you are saying they worked on the modem drivers again - well they messed them up again:-( Until 181 my caller ID was working fine (starting with 149 before that time it did not work either). Now its gone again.... do you know about this?
> I did not have the problem that the 912 picked up the phone ....ever.


Have you tried disabling caller ID popup, resetting the receiver, and then re-enabling it in the view preferences?


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## JOBY (Mar 27, 2004)

I have had my 921 for about a month, i use two sw21s to two seperate dual band dishes one for 110 one for 119. I get 12 OTA stations from San Antonio and Austin, both of which are 80 miles away. I have only lost and had to rescan the OTA's 1 time under L180. There is only 1 OTA station that I can't record or pause. If I have reboots I don't notice them. I have never seen the GSOD or the the X screen. The only consistant wierdness is ocassional audio dropouts and or pixelation when watching recorded programs even though my signal strength is 88 on 110 and 96 on 119. I don't understand why some people have major problems, and I don't. If we all have the same program and asuming the hardware is not deffective, shouldn't we all have simmilar bugs?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, they worked on the modem driver to keep it from answering the phone. Give jsanders' suggestion a try and see if that will get your callerid working again.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yes, they worked on the modem driver to keep it from answering the phone. Give jsanders' suggestion a try and see if that will get your callerid working again.


I am impressed I went two days instead of the usuall one day before having to re-scan channel 4 and 8 in Dallas. On the positive side I was getting 1 and sometimes 2 or 3 GSODs before 182 and have NONE since.


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## Jim Kosinsky (Jul 20, 2003)

L182 seems to have broken my DVR functions for OTA WLS-DT (ABC) Chicago (DT52 remapped to 7-1). So far all other OTA networks are still performing fine with DVR capability.

If memory serves, this network is the only OTA digital in Chicago that is broadcasting 720p...related issue?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

New uses for all southerners who have the 921-


Earlier in this thread, I stated I didn't know why we needed more musak channels, referencing all the excitement over Serius Radio. Well after much deliberation on how to turn this chicken sh!t into Chicken soup, I figured out how! Now I don't expect you yankees up in the cold will be able to replicate this but here is what I did here in Florida--

I connected the 921's audio out to a separate audio amp and fed the sound to a set of hanging planter speakers out by my poolside. Now all I do is turn on the 921 set it to analog SD out and with the remote UHF control I can change audio channels as needed. This is great! I've been surfing the serius and other CD audio channels for the past couple of hours. I'm thinking of setting up a special Favorites list just for Poolside sound channels. This would prevent me from going off the channels for poolside like a home shopping channel at full music listening volume. This is much better than what I had before with the Fm or CD player because I can control this 921 from the poolside. 
So, not only have I found a way to use these new freebies but also resurected a use for the useless 921 UHF remote.

PS- Yes, I have 802.11 wireless out here by the pool!  


Having more fun than a 921 owner should have!


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## nextime (Jan 28, 2004)

Jim Kosinsky said:


> L182 seems to have broken my DVR functions for OTA WLS-DT (ABC) Chicago (DT52 remapped to 7-1). So far all other OTA networks are still performing fine with DVR capability.
> 
> If memory serves, this network is the only OTA digital in Chicago that is broadcasting 720p...related issue?


I haven't tried to record WLS-DT 7-1 yet. I did notice that the pause function does not work. It's fine on all the other OTA stations. Perhaps it is a 720p related issue.


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## Jim Kosinsky (Jul 20, 2003)

Jim Kosinsky said:


> L182 seems to have broken my DVR functions for OTA WLS-DT (ABC) Chicago (DT52 remapped to 7-1). So far all other OTA networks are still performing fine with DVR capability.
> 
> If memory serves, this network is the only OTA digital in Chicago that is broadcasting 720p...related issue?


UPDATE: A manual record did NOT work...it appeared to function but when I tried to play back the recording it showed '0 min' for duration and indicated this recording as not viewable.


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## conner65 (Jan 26, 2004)

fox200 said:


> Part's are stable now? I'm not complaining, because I really like the 921
> when it's working, but I'm averaging about 1 replacement unit per month.
> I'm receiving my 4th RA unit on Saturday. I don't record much. I like the pause live T.V. feature best. Current problem is lost satellite reception. Check switch can't find satellites (but their there). Of course Dish can't get
> it to work either. Whenever I turn it on I want to hold my breath. If I don't
> see the blue lite right away, then there's trouble.


I have had the same bug. It lost reception Friday night when I tried to move up one channel listening to Sirrus. It started working after I changed the channel to the TNTHD feed. A reboot did not fix the problem, but changing the channel did. I had reception on my 501. I have one of the first units that had to be sent back for the blue line problem but it still works most of the time. I am looking at 110,119 & 61.5. SW L182. It is plugged into a Monster power conditioner.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I am confirming that L182 has broken the ability to pause, rewind, or perform any other operations on "live" TV for WLS-DT (ABC in Chicago). Pressing these buttons simply has no effect. If I recall correctly, this worked correctly in previous software versions. So yes, this seems to be universal with this station now.


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