# Questions at CES for Dish



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Hope you all are well and happy today. 

I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!) 

Thanks all,
Tom


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I don't have any questions on the top of my mind, but I look forward to your reports.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

Last year at CES they listed Tulsa as one of the 50 cities they would have HD locals to in 2006. My question, what is their new time frame for getting Tulsa ( and the rest of the 50 cities) in HD?

Thanks


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

How about when are they going to give us Salt Lake City ABC HD?


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## kdwebsol (Jan 29, 2006)

Allen Noland said:


> Last year at CES they listed Tulsa as one of the 50 cities they would have HD locals to in 2006. My question, what is their new time frame for getting Tulsa ( and the rest of the 50 cities) in HD?
> 
> Thanks


Same for Providence, RI. Was on the list for 2006.

Also, many would like a real update on RSN in HD. I am waiting for NESN and the last time I emailed E* I was told RSN are currently scheduled for the 1st quarter in 2007.

Have fun at the show!
Ken


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

As this easily won the poll for the feature we would most like to see added for the 622 I think it's a question that has to be asked - when are they going to release it and how will it work (archieval only, play from ext, size limitation, etc)???

Have fun at the show, I have always wanted to go to CES!


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## man215 (May 13, 2006)

Can you find out if Dishnetwork will be getting the LOGO channel anytime soon. Every other Satellite and Cable Company has it. Thanks.


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## Cokeswigga (Jan 25, 2005)

can you ask about the following Feature Requests for 622:

1.) Indication on the Program guide for programs broadcast in HD
2.) File size for recorded programs on DVR

3.) DVR sharing (make the 622 files accessable to other receivers) (this is an option offered by Verizon FIOS tv)


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## Alpaca Bill (Jun 17, 2005)

Are we even sure Dish is going to be there????

I have checked several times and have not been able to find an exhibitor listing for either DishNetwork or Echostar. Their spot on the floor last year has been swallowed by LG while it appears tht DirecTV has increased their space size. On one hand I can understand their lack of being there but on the other hand can they really afford not to be?

I am leaving Sun afternoon to head out there for the show and will be there al week. Once I get there I will post my findings.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Native Pass through support. Is it still planned and if so, what receivers and is there a time-line for having this feature added.


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## genemcd (Dec 8, 2003)

I would like to see the 622 (or it's successor) with some home media center capabilities similar to (or better than) the DirecTV HR20.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Are we even sure Dish is going to be there????
> 
> I have checked several times and have not been able to find an exhibitor listing for either DishNetwork or Echostar. Their spot on the floor last year has been swallowed by LG while it appears tht DirecTV has increased their space size. On one hand I can understand their lack of being there but on the other hand can they really afford not to be?
> 
> I am leaving Sun afternoon to head out there for the show and will be there al week. Once I get there I will post my findings.


They are still scheduled for Press Day, Sunday morning. And they are in the Central Hall, unless you saw something I didn't.

I stand corrected, they are scheduled for their press meeting Monday, morning at 10am.
Cheers,
Tom


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Native Pass through support. Is it still planned and if so, what receivers and is there a time-line for having this feature added.


Ditto, and will it be an option so that those who don't want would be able to turn it off? I want it but some people don't.

Thanks for compiling all these questions for those of us unable to go to CES!


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

Cokeswigga said:


> 3.) DVR sharing (make the 622 files accessable to other receivers) (this is an option offered by Verizon FIOS tv)


Yes. Make them use the ethernet port for something really needed in multiple HDTV homes.

And ofcourse more HD programming - MTV HD for eg. Also any international HD channels ? And the perennial favorite - BBC.


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

pesle ask abouy palans of enterign emxican markewt erhn si aheppnnign lor of rumro ehre taht eth start january 12


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Aransay said:


> pesle ask abouy palans of enterign emxican markewt erhn si aheppnnign lor of rumro ehre taht eth start january 12


"Please ask about plans of entering the Mexican market. When is it happening? A lot of rumors that the start is January 12th."


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## tsc (Nov 24, 2006)

James Long said:


> "Please ask about plans of entering the Mexican market. When is it happening? A lot of rumors that the start is January 12th."


James, THANK YOU for the translation. I can NEVER understand what the hell this guy is saying. Guess I left my decoder ring at home.


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## Elistan98 (Sep 18, 2006)

I would ask if there are any plans to pick up The Anime Channel or the Funimation channel. I posted this in the D* forum but if dish picked up either of these on a 24-7 basis i would switch. 

Thanks


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## Unclejeff (Mar 10, 2004)

Ditto the ditto on Native Passthru. Convince them that, by doing this, they will once again be in the lead for those of us who are only staying with them because of MPEG 4 transmissions.

Please, work with us oh great. lofty E*!


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## nuzzy (Aug 29, 2004)

Should we even bother to ask about HD RSN's??


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

nuzzy said:


> Should we even bother to ask about HD RSN's??


HD RSN's is on the list for both Dish and Directv. Is there a history I should know about before I ask Dish? 

Thanks, all. I will be summarizing my list in a day or so. And hopefully once again before I leave for Vegas.

Cheers,
Tom


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tibber said:


> HD RSN's is on the list for both Dish and Directv. Is there a history I should know about before I ask Dish?


E* uplinked them several months ago and then said on one of the televised chats that they were coming "very very soon".


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

what about those NHL CI HD channels? Are they mirrored or do I need both 61.5 and 129? Can I get a free upgrade if I either have NHL CI or when FSN-North HD is available I can get the Dish 1000 and still have 61.5 as well?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ehren said:


> what about those NHL CI HD channels? Are they mirrored or do I need both 61.5 and 129? Can I get a free upgrade if I either have NHL CI or when FSN-North HD is available I can get the Dish 1000 and still have 61.5 as well?


Am I missing something? This sounds like almost like an account specific set of questions, better served by a CSR.

Cheers,
Tom


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer (Feb 20, 2005)

I'm waiting to see a live demo on DishOnline on the ViP receivers. 

Also, I'm looking to see what they're going to set the MSRP for the 222 receiver. Hopefully it'll be close to the 211 price. 

We may also see the final-spec 1000.2 dish that's coming out in late Jan./Feb. time frame as reported to us retailers.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Probably should also ask about the CourtTV issue, and also what the plans are for Spotbeams in regards to Chicago, NY and Denver....


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

antoehr issu several are waiting 

Setanta sprots inclusion


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Are we even sure Dish is going to be there????
> 
> I have checked several times and have not been able to find an exhibitor listing for either DishNetwork or Echostar.


CES's site reports that Echostar will be at booth Central 7922.


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## Harryhawk (Jan 3, 2007)

When is the dish 1000.2 going to be readily available for RSP's and Subs?


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

a second OTA tuner?


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## rvrman (Jan 4, 2007)

What are the plans for the HD Audio Synch problems with SS systems that come and go??

Thanks


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

rvrman said:


> What are the plans for the HD Audio Synch problems with SS systems that come and go??
> 
> Thanks


I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Can you clarify please..


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lakebum431 said:


> I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Can you clarify please..


Thanks, I need the clarification too.  I'm more familiar with Directv stuff, but happy to go chat with the Dish people for us at dbstalk.

Cheers,
Tom


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

I don't know if it's the right place, but see if you can find out any more info re: DishDVR Advantage.


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## rwjga (Dec 23, 2005)

tibber said:


> Hope you all are well and happy today.
> 
> I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!)
> 
> ...


I think a target date schedule of HD programming is the leading question. Be it regional sports, local stations, or additional HD channels


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## julesism (Feb 25, 2004)

*NBR on 5xx! *


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

QUESTION:

When will I have digital sub channel Guide Data for PBS, MyTV, and others like Direct TV has today. When will they finish this for all DMAs?


It is hard to imposible to watch things with out guide data let alone record things. We pay $5 a month for local Guide Data, I would expect to have guide data for ALL local channels including digital sub channels like Direct TV has today in my market.

I noticed in the uplink reports that they started doing some guide data mapping by putting channels up in the 14,000 range with no Video or Sound and then mapping them down to the Sub Channel.

Some Uplinked today are not working, some do work. Direct TV has all the sub channels working with guide data in my small DMA.

Example:

14355 KYNE DT 1 PBS Omaha NE KYNE1 2460 10 110°

14356 KYNE DT 2 PBS Kids Omaha NE KYNE2 2460 10 110°

14357 KYNE DT 3 PBS Create Omaha NE KYNE3 2460 10 110°

14358 KYNE DT 5 PBS HD Omaha NE KYNE5 2460 10 110°


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## PBowie (Jan 4, 2006)

Please ask them when Orlando HD is coming online and also now that Setanta sports has signed a deal for the English Premier league until 2010 can we expect to get the PPV channel 

Thanks !
Oh and as much more HD programming as they want to give me I'll take it !


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Are we even sure Dish is going to be there????
> 
> I have checked several times and have not been able to find an exhibitor listing for either DishNetwork or Echostar. Their spot on the floor last year has been swallowed by LG while it appears tht DirecTV has increased their space size. On one hand I can understand their lack of being there but on the other hand can they really afford not to be?
> 
> I am leaving Sun afternoon to head out there for the show and will be there al week. Once I get there I will post my findings.


They are listed in the directory since the beginning. Maybe you didn't spell it correctly but They have two locations listed:

Echostar Sands 69430E 
EchoStar Central 7922

Satellite Guys.US has arranged a special tour appointment for it's members and friends. I went on this last year and the presentation was targeted to tech minded people. Lots of insider info on the future development plans for the VIP series that was not made public otherwise. This is where I and other attendees first heard from the developers about the internet plans for VIP as well as the USB external drive development. Later in the year they announced it officially. If any are interested in learning what's in the works for DishNetwork, I'd recommend you be present for this tour.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

My questions are HD RSNs when? I suspect we get them 2/1 when the new rates
take affect, which is OK as long as we get them. 

HD feeds of NBA League Pass and NHL Center Ice. Currently channels 387 to 399
are uplinked for HD feeds. Are we going to start getting maybe 6 or 7 HD feeds
a night of NHLCI or NBALP for subscribers?

Since Dish already has carriage agreements for Versus and Golf Channel, are
we going to get the new Comcast HD Golf/Versus channel that is supposed to debut about 1/31?

HD feeds of MLB EI. Assuming this package does not go over to Directv exclusively, will we get multiple nightly HD feeds similar to what is uplinked to channels 387 to 399 for NBA and NHL. 

Other new HD channels. Are we getting INHD? Are we getting A&E HD? Will
we get TBS HD if it becomes available like rumored?

Are there any plans for new MPEG 4 receivers or are the 622 and 211 it for the time being?


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## bbrazil (Jan 20, 2006)

Any sort of timeline for HD local rollout would be good.


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## Trek2000 (Dec 9, 2006)

I would Like to see a 16x9 feed to the 2nd TV on the VIP 622 or some future receiver. Most new TV's are 16x9.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

Pack along the 622 wish list poll, and take them in order of the vote. External storage and native rez pass-through were high on the list, IIRC.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

I would like to watch HD only channels, in SD, on my 522 to see if I'd be interested in the content.

Since I own my 522, I'd like more control over it. Like, being able to program it from my computer, downloading guide info into my computer, reverting to prior software, adding a larger drive to it.

A dual receiver that outputs a decoded MPEG2/4 streams I can record in a computer(s).


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## DadOf2 (Aug 17, 2006)

Hello, would you please ask if there are any plans to update PocketDish with the latest Archos models? Thanks!


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

tibber said:


> Hope you all are well and happy today.
> 
> I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!)
> 
> ...


I thought I heard that software upgrades were coming for the 622, side by side PIP amongst others.

And what might be the "next generation" of HD receivers from DISH?


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## 7thton (Mar 16, 2005)

Questions for DISH:

1. When will we able to hook up external hard drive storage to the 622 via USB?
2. Will DISH be getting any On Demand content, like Howard TV. (Howard Stern) Rumor has it that this could be done by hooking up the 622 to the internet and downloading the content. Do they have any comment on that?
3. RSNs in HD...when?


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Ask is there is a black version of the 622 being released (or any other receivers for that matter.)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Also on the USB hard drive side of things.. Ask them if there will only support certain drives and if there will be any restrictions in terms of drive size that will be imposed. 

Basically try and get as much details regarding external USB drive support as possible. This is #1 on the wish list. More details the better.


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## 26joy (Jan 4, 2007)

tibber said:


> Hope you all are well and happy today.
> 
> I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!)
> 
> ...


 I am trying to return to Dish after being on cable for a year. They are telling me that I am a returning customer and offer less than a new customer (require a 18 mos committment and 50 dollars activation). Can I join in my husbands name with the same phone number?


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

HD locals for LAS VEGAS

More HD Channels

CourtTV return

Less Shoppping Channels
Less Sports Channels

That would be my want list!


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## cdoyle (Feb 3, 2005)

julesism said:


> *NBR on 5xx! *


You beat me too it!


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

When will they get the bugs out of the dual buffers on the VIP622? 

The PIP workaround to prevent buffer loss is not really feasible most of the time.


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

Ask them to make rack mount kits available for all receivers, especially the top of the line. Also black fronts. And both IR and RF control of both outputs on the 622. And a direct IR input jack (mini plug) would be nice also. 
Your going to be very busy at the Echostar booth with input from this gang!! :lol: Hope you get to see a few of the other exhibits too!!:icon_da:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Ask them to make rack mount kits


Have you tried Middle Atlantic Products? Check here: http://www.middleatlantic.com/rackac/main.htm for generic info.
Check here: http://repnet.middleatlantic.com/RSH/RSHSearch.asp for specific Dish models.

I have used them in the past and they do excellent work.


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## Doggfather (Apr 19, 2004)

More Hd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MQuinn (Apr 18, 2005)

Doggfather said:


> More Hd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Especially - where is Cinemax HD?


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## rvrman (Jan 4, 2007)

lakebum431 said:


> I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Can you clarify please..


Sorry for the delay in getting back!

2 week old 622 driving me crazy with out of synch audio on some HD and some SD channels.
Happens on live and DVR.

Fairly common problem talked about on many forums.

Looks like the old Japanese monster movies.
Comes and goes. 1 program ok, next could have mild to bad lip synch issues.

*Here at DBSTALK*

Search on "synch" in the *ViP622 DVR Support Forum*


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## 7thton (Mar 16, 2005)

Also, another question for DISH: When are they going to get the Setanta Sports channel?


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## LostBoyinVA (Mar 3, 2006)

I have 3 TVs in the house 1 is HD, I have SD DVRs on the other 2 TVs and plan on going HD with them in the next 12 months. I don't need dual Tuner DVRs on all 3 TVs. So where is the MPEG 4 capable single tuner DVR so I can lease all 3 receivers?


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## Bullwinkle501 (Sep 13, 2002)

When are they going to implement native resolution pass through for the 622 instead of con verting everything to either 1080 or 720?

When are they going to put the HD RSNs up, specifically comcast sports net Chicago?

On the local front, what are the plans for adding HD PBS stations to the local HD packages? And when are they going to add major HD independents like WGN in Chicago?


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## jenniferny (May 28, 2006)

Locals in HD were promised for the Buffalo, NY market late in 2006. When are they going to be available?

When is Cinemax going to be available in HD?

When are we going to get more real HD channels, not the fluff like is in the Voom HD package, real channels like Multiple Feed HBO, Multiple Feed Starz, and more HD channels in general?


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## dough_boy747 (Jun 18, 2004)

I asking the same as one said on here today why doesnt Dish have this all others do, and it would be a great help to others that have low vision problems.


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## dough_boy747 (Jun 18, 2004)

I mean to say is this.

Can you find out if Dishnetwork will be getting the LOGO channel anytime soon. Every other Satellite and Cable Company has it. Thanks.
quite


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## Yes616 (Sep 6, 2006)

I have several questions and all but 2 have already been asked here.

1. Any chance of local CW and MyTV in HD?
2. Sportsnet New York in HD?

Thanks.


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## ozeyeo (Sep 1, 2004)

Are there plans to have 5.1 DD via HDMI on the 622 receiver, any time soon.
Thanks


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## Nick79 (Sep 5, 2006)

I know what I want for Dish to carry: The Tube and an international news channel. I would ask for a tech channel, but it would be better off on the Web. Let me know if I miss anything.


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

How about 2 HD packages? Say $10 for all the good HD channels that don't suck. And if the customer wants to pay $20, they can also get Voom Networks. (Catch my drift?)


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## Dozoclown (Oct 25, 2005)

How do they decide which markets are getting locals? Why are smaller markets launched before larger ones?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Dozoclown said:


> How do they decide which markets are getting locals? Why are smaller markets launched before larger ones?


I'm going to assume they use a similar rationale that Directv seems to use: First try to get all larger markets first, then going down the list based on size, put in the next areas that have agreements to carry with Dish and are fairly easy to get to an uplink facility.

In some DMAs, the local stations are asking for enough money that Directv is saying nope, not yet. I suspect, given the way Dish works, they are more likely to be recalcitrant to pick up a local that wants $$.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Dish Cubfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Bullwinkle501 said:


> When are they going to implement native resolution pass through for the 622 instead of con verting everything to either 1080 or 720?
> 
> When are they going to put the HD RSNs up, specifically comcast sports net Chicago?
> 
> On the local front, what are the plans for adding HD PBS stations to the local HD packages? And when are they going to add major HD independents like WGN in Chicago?


Ditto - thank you.


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## kdwebsol (Jan 29, 2006)

tedb3rd said:


> How about 2 HD packages? Say $10 for all the good HD channels that don't suck. And if the customer wants to pay $20, they can also get Voom Networks. (Catch my drift?)


Second that!


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

The biggest issue you have, and I mean this with all due respect, is that by your own admission you do not know Dish - but Directv. Both companies are slick - but obviously Charlie has the best snake oil salespeople in the Industry. They will feed you a line that will either sound like an answer or be total BS - and you will not be familar enough with the product to be able to follow up or call them on it.

If I went to a medical supply show, I'd be in the same situation.

Quite frankly, you need to know the question and actually have a crip sheet for their possible BS excuses to follow up on and call them on.

(Not that any of the other satellite sites will hold their feet to the fire either - the mods won't want to give up all those freebies they get  )

But I just don't understand how you will be able to get at the hard questions and know when you are getting a run around.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> (Not that any of the other satellite sites will hold their feet to the fire either - the mods won't want to give up all those freebies they get  )


It seems the "sources" at Dish don't seem to mind as long as they get to talk about what they know and nobody else knows yet. The people at Dish who are not "sources" (and actually know more about what is going on) won't give up info.

Sometimes Charlie and others on the public side have slipped and mentioned something that the non-public side wished was never said. I get hit by that at my workplace too (no, I don't work for E*). Boss says 'we will' before he asks if it is possible and the next thing you know the staff is pulling off a miracle - or not.


HDTVFanAtic said:


> But I just don't understand how you will be able to get at the hard questions and know when you are getting a run around.


Are their lips moving? Some things that they talk about will be written in stone, other things not so much. There might be a couple of things they KNOW and can come through on quickly, but don't expect too many breakthroughs.

I expect we will see a lot of things we saw a year ago at the last CES. Last year was more of a breakthrough year ... I really doubt if we will hear anything that we don't know already from CES 2006 and the chats and tech forums since then. No matter how hard the questioning is.

Still, it is nice to get things "on the record" so to speak ... like they do in a Charlie Chat. It is always nice to have a name and face to link to a report instead of anonymous sources.


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## sharklover (Oct 1, 2006)

tibber said:


> Hope you all are well and happy today.
> 
> I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!)
> 
> ...


Ask them when local on the 8's will be available on on the weather channel 214.


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## brmann (Apr 22, 2002)

Cokeswigga said:


> can you ask about the following Feature Requests for 622:
> 
> 3.) DVR sharing (make the 622 files accessable to other receivers) (this is an option offered by Verizon FIOS tv)


I have a poor man's file sharing now using a Sony RDR-GX7 DVD player/recorder. Probably any old cheap model would suffice as long as it has three inputs. On input #1 I can input and play/or/burn from my 622vip. From input #3 I can play/burn from my 508. From input #2 (or the tv's front panel input #4) I can play/or/burn from my 40 GB DISHPLAYER. Not perfect, but what if I were to replace the 508 with another 622vip (or any other hi volume source). Besides that up here in the mountains it's seldom that anything comes in HD that I care to watch, much less record. When they took away distance programing my No 1 source of some great sports went via CBS-HD. In that I'm about 70 mies from either Asheville or Greensville it'll probably be a very cold day in the month of July before I see any OTA HD programming, when and if it comes.

In answer to your question, no, I can't move them from one hard disk to another (except I can move any of them to my DISHPLAYER). Idealy, I'd like to see both the 622vip and the dishplayer with a 1 T hard drive. I haven't tried it yet but in theory you can transfer files b/t your computer and the dishplayer. It's operating system seems to emulate Windows for most functions.

Burt


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

Elistan98 said:


> I would ask if there are any plans to pick up The Anime Channel or the Funimation channel.


I would appreciate these channels as well.


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## Allanon (Jan 2, 2007)

Yes616 said:


> I have several questions and all but 2 have already been asked here.
> 
> 1. Any chance of local CW and MyTV in HD?
> 2. Sportsnet New York in HD?
> ...


Yeah I want to know when we're getting CW and PBS in HD.


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

brmann said:


> I have a poor man's file sharing now using a Sony RDR-GX7 DVD player/recorder. Probably any old cheap model would suffice as long as it has three inputs. On input #1 I can input and play/or/burn from my 622vip. From input #3 I can play/burn from my 508. From input #2 (or the tv's front panel input #4) I can play/or/burn from my 40 GB DISHPLAYER. Not perfect, but what if I were to replace the 508 with another 622vip (or any other hi volume source). Besides that up here in the mountains it's seldom that anything comes in HD that I care to watch, much less record. When they took away distance programing my No 1 source of some great sports went via CBS-HD. In that I'm about 70 mies from either Asheville or Greensville it'll probably be a very cold day in the month of July before I see any OTA HD programming, when and if it comes.
> 
> In answer to your question, no, I can't move them from one hard disk to another (except I can move any of them to my DISHPLAYER). Idealy, I'd like to see both the 622vip and the dishplayer with a 1 T hard drive. I haven't tried it yet but in theory you can transfer files b/t your computer and the dishplayer. It's operating system seems to emulate Windows for most functions.
> 
> Burt


DishPlayers are no longer supported and the highest end consumer drive on market presently for internals are 750 GBs. DISH as a company presently doesn't support anything that high in storage as that in and of itself carries a high cost.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

As DNS was removed for Atlanta and LA from Conus positions and moved to spotbeams (and they can still remove Denver, Chicago and NY from Conus to Spotbeams), they clearly have more Conus Capacity for the Primary 110/119 Satellites then they did prior to 12/1.

HDNET and HDNET Movies was destroyed from its full 1920x1080i and its full 17.57 Video Bitrate and looks like crap now so they could put a preview of NFL-HD and a HD Retail Demo channel on 110.

Now with the increased Conus capacity as LA and Atlanta have been taken back to Spotbeam, why can they not give us back HDNET and HDNET movies at full resolution and bitrate as they can put the HD Retail Preview Channel on one of the other Conus Transponders once used by LA or Atlanta (and Chicago and Denver) ?

If they will not agree to this, 148W has a full bitrate HBO-HD and SHO-HD - compared to their feeds on 110W - even though Techs deny there is any difference.

There remains room on 148W. Even if they will not give us back HDNET and HDNET Movies in full resolution and bitrate on 110W, why not give it to us on 148W - though some will not be able to receive it - make 148W the satellite for the HD puriest if you will - as it is essentially is so far West that it will never be a key satellite position for them - and where they send old Echostar Birds to die.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

When will the ethernet port be activated on the 211 and 622?


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Please ask if there's any possibility to subscribe to HD movie channels without the SD versions.

Also, the search feature is clumsy and meeds some revamping. It would also be nice to list a specific channel, e.g. show the SciFi channel in a long listing as opposed to scrolling through page after page after page. It could be accomplished by making 'channel' as a search option.


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## gjh3260 (Mar 19, 2006)

When will the HD RSN's be available ?????????????


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

brmann said:


> In answer to your question, no, I can't move them from one hard disk to another (except I can move any of them to my DISHPLAYER).


I've never heard of anyone using a 7100 (aka DishPLAYER) to play the HDD contents recorded by another receiver type. Or did you mean you move the programs to a portable player which is called PocketDISH?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dmspen said:


> Please ask if there's any possibility to subscribe to HD movie channels without the SD versions.
> 
> Also, the search feature is clumsy and meeds some revamping. It would also be nice to list a specific channel, e.g. show the SciFi channel in a long listing as opposed to scrolling through page after page after page. It could be accomplished by making 'channel' as a search option.


In the case of the premium movie channels, that would be up to the network to package. Currently, from what I think I know, the premium networks do not charge more for the HDs (or less if you don't get the SDs.) So either way you aren't paying more for something you don't want, its available if you do want.

I'll try to ask about improved search terms.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Spirit (Dec 14, 2006)

tibber said:


> Hope you all are well and happy today.
> 
> I'm going to CES and will be trying to buttonhole Dish (and others) and then report back here what I find out. I'm more knowledgeable about Directv, but fundamentally agnostic, so I will need your help with knowing what the Dish Nework issues of the day are. As you are an erudite group in general, are there any questions you'd like me to ask (that won't get me thrown out!)
> 
> ...


It's probably too late... but if you happen to be there again... here are a couple which didn't appear to be addressed;

1. Where are our Closed Captions on Mpeg4 data streams?! The FCC has rules. Dish is not abiding by them! CC's are apprently being sent on the data stream, but are not being received/translated by the 211 (and other) receivers.

2. Why are the VOOM channels, HDNEWS and others, not including Closed Captions in their content? It's an FCC ruling that they should!

3. On the 211 I do not want my screen burnt in for 5 hours by a roving "Dish Network" logo during the auto shutoff. Please just turn the receiver off!

thanks!


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Spirit said:


> 2. Why are the VOOM channels, HDNEWS and others, not including Closed Captions in their content? It's an FCC ruling that they should!


The providers are not including them and there is no FCC provision that they must. E* can't provide what's not there - I can't believe I am defending them 



Spirit said:


> 3. On the 211 I do not want my screen burnt in for 5 hours by a roving "Dish Network" logo during the auto shutoff. Please just turn the receiver off!


It wont burn in - the screensaver/logo movies around - but I don't disagree that 211 is a PIA with its check switch, startup and shutdown.

And I can't believe I actually defended E*


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

um...(whispers)hdtvFanAtic, you ... well you defended E*...twice... 

You do realize that given your reputation, 3 strikes and you're out...(Just kidding)

Cheers,
Tom


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## Spirit (Dec 14, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> The providers are not including them and there is no FCC provision that they must. E* can't provide what's not there - I can't believe I am defending them


Regarding nonexistent Closed Captions (as in VOOM and HDNEWS);
Maybe you should cite to them, the FCC rules (or maybe I missed something).

Here are some excerpts from the FCC website: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/captioning_regs.html
-----------------------------
*§ 79.1 Closed captioning of video programming.*

(a) Definitions. For purposes of this section the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Video programming. Programming provided by, or generally considered comparable to programming provided by, a television broadcast station that is distributed and exhibited for residential use.

(2) Video programming distributor. Any television broadcast station licensed by the Commission and any multichannel video programming distributor as defined in § 76.1000(e) of this chapter, and any other distributor of video programming for residential reception that delivers such programming directly to the home and is subject to the jurisdiction of the Commission. An entity contracting for program distribution over a video programming distributor that is itself exempt from captioning that programming pursuant to paragraph (e)(9) of this section shall itself be treated as a video programming distributor for purposes of this section. To the extent such video programming is not otherwise exempt from captioning, the entity that contracts for its distribution shall be required to comply with the closed captioning requirements of this section.

(3) Video programming provider. Any video programming distributor and any other entity that provides video programming that is intended for distribution to residential households including, but not limited to broadcast or nonbroadcast television network and the owners of such programming.

(5) New programming. Video programming that is first published or exhibited on or after January 1, 1998.

(4) Closed captioning. The visual display of the audio portion of video programming pursuant to the technical specifications set forth in part 15 of this chapter.

*(b) Requirements for closed captioning of video programming.--*
(iv) As of January 1, 2006, and thereafter, 100% of the programming distributor's new nonexempt video programming must be provided with captions.
----------------------------------------

They are a distributor. Further, in there I believe it states as a distributor they are responsible to provide CC's, whether the original material included them or not. I perused this stuff for nearly a week to find any fine print that might have made Dish exempt... I could not find any. Also, News is one venue for which they will not allow exemptions.

Maybe they could show us their exemption certificate.



> E* can't provide what's not there


 Regarding my 211... all Mpeg4 broadcasts which show (CC) in the guide are not displaying CC's! It was confirmed to me by an Echostar RF tech who went through the effort to verify the signals sent out, that the CC's for my Local HD signals were indeed being sent out where CC's were shown in the guide and that it must be a programming issue on my 211. Another part of that FCC page specifies that the equipment provided to residential customers _must_ produce CC display as well!



> It wont burn in - the screensaver/logo movies around - but I don't disagree that 211 is a PIA with its check switch, startup and shutdown.


Someone on this forum suggested that the screensave logo does not move around in a random fashion, thus, it could eventually burn a diamond shape pattern into our screens/crt's.



> And I can't believe I actually defended E*


Hey... understandable... they were probably being real nice. 
But, really... please, definately accept a big * thank you* from me, for bringing it to their attention!


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Spirit said:


> Regarding nonexistent Closed Captions (as in VOOM and HDNEWS);
> Maybe you should cite to them, the FCC rules (or maybe I missed something).
> 
> Here are some excerpts from the FCC website: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/captioning_regs.html
> ...


(11) Captioning expense in excess of 2% of gross revenues. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any video programming if such expenditure would exceed 2% of the gross revenues received from that channel during the previous calendar year.

(12) Channels producing revenues of under $3,000,000. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any channel of video programming producing annual gross revenues of less than $3,000,000 during the previous calendar year other than the obligation to pass through video programming already captioned when received pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.

Exempt.... (though I expect Voom is very close to the line on #12 with Dish right now as 15 Channels x 3 = $45 Million).

I do expect that #11 still holds for Voom and HDNET though.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Re: Closed Captioning. I asked the question yesterday (lucky my hot spot is working now at 4:23 AM). They are very aware of the problem and are working on solving the problem. They didn't give a timetable, but said that MPEG4 has a real problem in transfering CC over to the system. Patience.


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## Spirit (Dec 14, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> (11) Captioning expense in excess of 2% of gross revenues. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any video programming if such expenditure would exceed 2% of the gross revenues received from that channel during the previous calendar year.
> 
> (12) Channels producing revenues of under $3,000,000. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any channel of video programming producing annual gross revenues of less than $3,000,000 during the previous calendar year other than the obligation to pass through video programming already captioned when received pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.
> 
> ...





> Captioning expense in excess of 2% of gross revenues.


 Well, in my limited study - professional Closed Captioning hardware used to embed CC text into the video stream costs $10,000. Given the addition of whatever it costs to have someone sit for $10 - $20/hr and type for hours on end, and then comparing it to - (Dish website quote) "_1/04/06 DISH Network Passes 12 Million Customer Milestone_" x $40/mo = $480 million gross per month, it seems to me that that cost would be a flea spec (480 million gross x 2% = 9.6 million per month)... in Jan 2006!



> (12) Channels producing revenues of under $3,000,000.


480 million per month / ~300 channels (how many total channels do they have?) = $1.6 million per month x 12 = $19.2 million per year _per channel_ gross! That's 6 times the 3 million specified by the FCC.

I know, I'm nickel-and-diming things with far from complete knowledge of real revenues... only a very rough guess. But still... my rough $40/mo above is based on the low end monthly plans... not the charges for the Platinum $100/mo plans. Incorporating those figures would certainly increase the gross figure by another 30% at least, wouldn't you agree?

I don't see any application by Dish for exemption here;
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/caption_exemptions.html
From what I've read, the exemption option was created for real small program providers, churches, college campus-type organizations and small independents where undue-burden was a realistic fact... not the few huge, major providers like Dish, Direct TV, Cable, et al.

Really, most if not all of the Standard Definition streams have CC's. So it's really the 20+ VOOM channels (and maybe a couple others) which are being addressed here... not too big a task for what would be a very small additional investment.

Hey Dish, if you're listening... an easy solution... my company will take the burden off your shoulders for $2K per each 1 hr HD program!!!

[END venting]... I don't want to lose my permissions to post.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Spirit said:


> Well, in my limited study - professional Closed Captioning hardware used to embed CC text into the video stream costs $10,000. Given the addition of whatever it costs to have someone sit for $10 - $20/hr and type for hours on end, and then comparing it to - (Dish website quote) "_1/04/06 DISH Network Passes 12 Million Customer Milestone_" x $40/mo = $480 million gross per month, it seems to me that that cost would be a flea spec (480 million gross x 2% = 9.6 million per month)... in Jan 2006!
> 
> 480 million per month / ~300 channels (how many total channels do they have?) = $1.6 million per month x 12 = $19.2 million per year _per channel_ gross! That's 6 times the 3 million specified by the FCC.


I really think you need a less limited study then . Its Gross Revenue PER CHANNEL. If its in a package, you divide it by number of channels.

You really think that Dish has 12 Million HD Subs?::nono2:

Furthermore, you are talking 15 Voom Channels and 2 HDNET Channels - thus you are talking not someone - but many court stenographers.

700,000 HD Subs @ $5 for Voom = $3.5 Mil per month x 12 = $42 Million Voom Revenue a year /15 channels = roughly $2.8 Million per channel revenue per year.

2% of 2.8 Million = $56k per year - of which it would not put a dent in the costs to close caption.

Again, I posted it so you could see it:

11) Captioning expense in excess of 2% of gross revenues. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any video programming if such expenditure would exceed 2% of the *gross revenues received from that channel *during the previous calendar year.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Furthermore, you are talking 15 Voom Channels and 2 HDNET Channels - thus you are talking not someone - but many court stenographers.


I use closed captioning all the time. I'll guarantee, a lot of that text was never touched by human hands. Live programs obviously use voice recognition software. On a good day, it will just choose the wrong homonym. Other times, it is completely unintelligible. Evening news programs are the worst offenders with this. You should see what the software does with proper names and regional accents! Far too rarely, the result is funny. Mostly it is just garbage.

Studios often provide the script for closed captioning. Sometimes the original script dialog doesn't match the spoken dialog. That process is a simple cut and paste. If they aren't careful, the CC can get several seconds ahead of the screen action. The most irritating 'feature' of this process is dialog that will appear on the screen and just hang there while the camera does an establishing shot, zooms in on a closeup of a murder, shows a witness running away, then cuts to the next scene where two cops finally speak the dialog. It sort of ruins the suspense.

Most DVDs have subtitles available. The broadcaster can just feed the subtitles into the CC encoder. Those are the best, because the CC syncs pretty well with the screen action.

I don't think anyone is wearing out the little stenographer's fingers doing CC.


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## Spirit (Dec 14, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> I really think you need a less limited study then . Its Gross Revenue PER CHANNEL. If its in a package, you divide it by number of channels.
> 
> You really think that Dish has 12 Million HD Subs?::nono2:


 I was taking a rough all-channels-including-HD estimate and dividing the total guessed revenue between them. Per item (11) we would indeed have to evaluate revenues for only those specific channels.



> Furthermore, you are talking 15 Voom Channels and 2 HDNET Channels - thus you are talking not someone - but many court stenographers.
> 
> 700,000 HD Subs @ $5 for Voom = $3.5 Mil per month x 12 = $42 Million Voom Revenue a year /15 channels = roughly $2.8 Million per channel revenue per year.
> 
> 2% of 2.8 Million = $56k per year - of which it would not put a dent in the costs to close caption.


 Just for reference, I can get professional HD closed captioning done for less than $1,500 per hour of programming. That's for the HDCAM or D5 with the nicer Pop-On captioning (placed on the screen near the person speaking or moves out of the way to not visually block the main focus or speaker). That's the completed product on tape (cost of tape & shipping included). So, indeed, based on a figure of $57k that would only be 37 - 1 hr programs for each channel.
It would be interesting to know just how many unique 1 hr programs there are, on the average, for each channel. I got a very rough count of 12 hrs of unique programming for a 24 hr period (lots of repeats) on GLLRY.



> Again, I posted it so you could see it:
> 
> 11) Captioning expense in excess of 2% of gross revenues. No video programming provider shall be required to expend any money to caption any video programming if such expenditure would exceed 2% of the *gross revenues received from that channel *during the previous calendar year.


Yeah... it could probably be considered a rather complicated deal, since it involves several companies, not just Dish. I think Rainbow Media (subsidiary of Cablevision Systems) pipes it out to more than one provider like Dish. In the end, I guess it's the entity which makes the most money who must caption it. It almost appears like if the revenue is divied up enough between them all, then none of them qualify for the responsibility, even though the 'overall' revenue may be high enough to qualify.

It's been fun kicking it around with you and will be interesting to see what happens. Meanwhile, I put a call into Rainbow to see what's up with it and if they would like someone to handle it for them. 

Cheers!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Larry Caldwell said:


> I don't think anyone is wearing out the little stenographer's fingers doing CC.


There are a few exceptions. ENCO Systems out of Detroit makes a nice autocaption device which they lease per hour of captioning. They have done a lot in the way of audio to text (they even have an automatic bleep box that will look for "bad words" on an audio feed and automatically remove and mask them - pricey but effective). IIRC they claimed CNN as a customer a few years ago for the auto-caption service.

But within the past month a local TV affiliate did a story in a local home about a person who does sit and watch TV just to do the captions. She gets the audio feed a few seconds ahead of the video, keys what she heard and it gets combined back at the uplink for the rest of us to see her work.

During the story the programming she was captioning was CNN. Perhaps they decided that humans were cheaper (and better) than the machine?

Also watch the end of the programs. There is usually a copyright for the captioning from CaptionMax or some other place. Often you will see "Captioned by Gregg at CaptionMax" or a similar credit. It is neat to see and friendly to know someONE was captioning the program.

I agree about the errors and the absence of captions being annoying. I like to have the captions on for missed words ... it isn't cool when you lose the drama because the words are there before they are spoken or just totally missing.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Larry Caldwell said:


> I use closed captioning all the time. I'll guarantee, a lot of that text was never touched by human hands. Live programs obviously use voice recognition software. On a good day, it will just choose the wrong homonym. Other times, it is completely unintelligible. Evening news programs are the worst offenders with this. You should see what the software does with proper names and regional accents! Far too rarely, the result is funny. Mostly it is just garbage.
> 
> Studios often provide the script for closed captioning. Sometimes the original script dialog doesn't match the spoken dialog. That process is a simple cut and paste. If they aren't careful, the CC can get several seconds ahead of the screen action. The most irritating 'feature' of this process is dialog that will appear on the screen and just hang there while the camera does an establishing shot, zooms in on a closeup of a murder, shows a witness running away, then cuts to the next scene where two cops finally speak the dialog. It sort of ruins the suspense.
> 
> ...


If its $1,500 per hour, it would be cheaper to get a stenographer


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