# Young Broadcasting locals shut off....7PM 12/11 back 5PM 12/14



## buzzcut (Dec 12, 2006)

from KELO-TV/KCLO-TV website (Sioux Falls, SD market):

Dear Dish Network Subscriber:

Dish Network's contract with KELO-TV/KCLO-TV expires on December 10, 2008 at midnight. KELO-TV/KCLO-TV offered to extend the contract in an attempt to reach an agreement with DISH. The extension was not accepted by DISH. For the past several months our company has attempted to reach a new agreement with DISH Network. Unfortunately DISH Network has elected not to accept our proposal.

We know that it is important to keep you informed, and, therefore, we want you to know the FACTS:

DISH Network charges you a fee for KELO-TV
KCLO-TV. We believe DISH should be willing
to pay a small, but fair, portion of the fees
you pay to DISH for the program content we
provide to you.

The fair compensation that we are asking for
as part of our contract with DISH is less than
a penny per day per subscriber. We believe that
a penny per day per subscriber is a reasonable
demand for our award winning news, sports,
and entertainment programming. It is consider-
ably less than the amount paid by DISH to less
popular satellite/cable networks.

DISH will likely contend that the increase we
are asking in its fee is unreasonable. It is
not. We have provided DISH with our signal at
a very modest rate compared to what DISH pays
other program services that are less popular.

We are trying to prevent DISH from 
discriminating against our station.

If you want DISH to continue to provide
KELO-TV/KCLO-TV, please call DISH and let
them know.

We will continue to work diligently in the hope
that DISH will complete an agreement for 
carriage of KELO-TV/KCLO-TV.


i reside in a rural area, so, this becomes a pain in the YOU-KNOW-WHAT-----for a number of reasons.
just hope something gets done.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

buzzcut said:


> ....
> 
> We are trying to prevent DISH from
> discriminating against our station.
> ...


Well presented argument.... except playing the discrimination card makes them look silly.


----------



## jimborst (Jun 13, 2006)

As for "happening elsewhere?" just to your south Sioux City lost channel 9 KCAU for about a month when the company that owns KCAU couldn't come to an agreement, I guess it's just your turn. Hopefully it won't last long, but don't expect KELO to be on dish after midnight.


----------



## 47HO (Apr 11, 2008)

I wonder what the KELO-TV/KCLO-TV advertisers think of losing Dish viewers? After all, they are paying fees for their commercials to be sent FTA.


----------



## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

In baton rouge, LA the abc channel has been off the air(due to money dispute) for almost a year,
the dish slate says the abc channel wants "an over 100% increase" 
and now the nbc, fox and cw( all 3 are owned by the same co) are threatening to be pulled on Jan 1st unless they get an increase in money from dish.
So come Jan 1st, baton rouge might only have cbs on dish


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If the station really wanted to serve the community they would have elected "must carry" and forced DISH to carry them (without payment). Instead they have done what many stations have done ... decided to sell their signal.

There are two sides to the story ... I suspect that just after midnight DISH's side will be shown on a slate in place of the channel. Expect language reflecting the % of rate increase, etc.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I also wonder... are they saying a penny per Dish customer or a penny per Dish customer that subscribes in that local market? Sounds like semantics, but makes a difference in the math.

Even still... Dish charges $5 per month for locals... and a penny per day comes to roughly 30 cents per month. By my math that would be a 6% increase if Dish just passed that on directly. Compared to $5 a 30 cent increase does sound steep when you figure that $5 covers not just those locals but all the locals in the market... so if 1 or 2 channels is asking for another 30 cents, that could make dominoes fall and the other channels would be asking for it as well.

Meanwhile, as James said, local stations have the option of negotiating for carriage OR declaring themselves "must carry" and being carried for free. I don't begrudge local stations for wanting fair compensation, but it does have to be FAIR compensation.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Out of that $5 per month comes-
circuit to uplink
connections (OTA or direct fiber) to the local stations. 
rent for facilities,
power.
Plus make some profit on each subscriber.
And now, with HD being added, more costs on uplink circuit, as well as more equipment to receive and process.


----------



## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

A "modest" increase according to keloland.com, less than a penny a day which translates to $0.30 a month in my mind. I saw a copy of another station's website comments which looked to be a carbon copy of of Kelolands comments. Probably another station owned by Young Broadcasting. My personal feeling is that they should be glad to have additional coverage.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If one did the math solely on the cost to carry the channels in a market I doubt DISH makes a penny at all. This isn't cable where a local antenna feeds local customers. Locals have to be backhauled across the country to a satellite uplink center for retransmission via satellite. DISH has poured millions into complicated satellites just to carry locals.

On the up side, customers expect local channels are expected to be carried - so where DISH can offer locals they have a better chance of selling their service. Their investment pays off by increasing overall subscription levels. But the actual dollar paying for locals isn't enough to pay for the locals it provides.


----------



## mspuhler (Aug 5, 2003)

The exact same letter (except for the call letters) for WLNS in Lansing, MI.



buzzcut said:


> from KELO-TV/KCLO-TV website (Sioux Falls, SD market):
> 
> Dear Dish Network Subscriber:
> 
> ...


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

buzzcut said:


> We are trying to prevent DISH from
> discriminating against our station.
> 
> If you want DISH to continue to provide
> ...


Personally I'd call them, not DISH.


----------



## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

I don't know if there is a thread on this, but it appears that Young Broadcasting stations are slated to be pulled from Dish Network at midnight tonight. The station in my area affected is KELO-TV, CBS.

http://www.keloland.com/custompages/dishnetwork/index.cfm

Sister station WKRN in Nashville has a similar letter on its site.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

While it is not obvious, the Uplink Activity indicates some preparation for the takedown. "LTD" = Local TakeDown.


----------



## UKWildcatFan (Apr 23, 2008)

WATE in Knoxville says the same thing. If this happens I will be looking for other means of service provider. I have stayed the course not crying because they haven't added a station or 2 that I would like to have in HD, but IMHO this is a breach of contract. I know it won't get me out of my contract but I will dump Dish if this happens.

http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?s=9496818


----------



## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

UKWildcatFan said:


> ...but IMHO this is a breach of contract. ...


LOL, okay!


----------



## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

It seems to be happening on a few stations that dish is having trouble with.
Here in baton Rouge, the abcstation has been off dish since April 30,2008
http://www.2theadvocate.com/wbrz/releases/19462224.html

and now the Fox, nbc, and cw is threatening to be off of dish come Jan 1st if they cant work out a deal.
http://www.nbc33tv.com/home/related/28656489.html
http://www.fox44.com/home/related/28656554.html

That would leave Baton Rouge with only CBS. If this happens dish will get a bunch of cancellations as Directv now also has the Baton Rouge locals in HD.
This would be the last straw for people to jump to Directv.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Broadcasting

http://www.youngbroadcasting.com/


----------



## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

UKWildcatFan said:


> WATE in Knoxville says the same thing. If this happens I will be looking for other means of service provider. I have stayed the course not crying because they haven't added a station or 2 that I would like to have in HD, but IMHO this is a breach of contract. I know it won't get me out of my contract but I will dump Dish if this happens.
> 
> http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?s=9496818


Well, as for us, we will stick with Dish as we have our handy converter boxes, and we can receive KELO OTA via antenna in digital.


----------



## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

Funny, same thing happened to our local NBC station (Lin TV affiliate)with Time Warner recently; they pulled the station for about a month, and the station was running heavy ads to switch to Dish.

The mud throwing got pretty harsh between TWC and that station, both trying to act like they had the viewer's interest at heart, blah blah. Whatever.


----------



## sum_random_dork (Aug 21, 2008)

Young is in serious financial trouble to say the least, they may be looking to Dish for a bit of cash infusion. They have had KRON for sale for at least a year probably 2 but they can't get NBC, FOX, or Hearst-Argyle to buy it. The rumors here have been they are close to bankruptcy and their stock was pulled from the market because it had been trading so low.


----------



## sethwell (Sep 19, 2008)

UKWildcatFan said:


> WATE in Knoxville says the same thing. If this happens I will be looking for other means of service provider. I have stayed the course not crying because they haven't added a station or 2 that I would like to have in HD, but IMHO this is a breach of contract. I know it won't get me out of my contract but I will dump Dish if this happens.
> 
> http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?s=9496818


ummm, i don't believe dish did this to you. the station wants more from dish. i would call the station and tell them you will never watch the station again and that you will tell everyone you see that they shouldn't watch either. they start loosing OTA viewers and cable subs, or D* subs then their advertisers might start asking why? more viewers equals more potential customers for those advertisers.

i just went to young broadcastings website and looked at thier stock quotes. i have your answer to why they want dish to pay. they are in desperate need of cash!!

Exchange	NASDAQ CM (US Dollar)

Financial Status Indicator	D
Price	$0.03
Change (%)	0.00 (0.00%)
Volume	45,836
Today's Open $0.04
Previous Close $0.03--------------------------------------->what they closed at today.
Intraday High $0.04
Intraday Low $0.03
52 Week High $1.43--------------------------------------->What they use to be last year this time
52 Week Low $0.03


----------



## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

As of 1 AM WBAY 2 in Green Bay is still on DISH. If Young does pull the Channel, I will start calling advertisers to quit advertising on Young. I will tell everyone to stop watching the station and write them letters till there sick of me. These local stations need to know they are a monopoly and are hearting people in this recession. Cable companies are charging over $ 20.00 in my area for locals, so Dishes $ 5.00 is never going to cover all there costs if all 7 stations in the Green Bay market charge this new rate.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

sum_random_dork said:


> Young is in serious financial trouble to say the least, they may be looking to Dish for a bit of cash infusion. They have had KRON for sale for at least a year probably 2 but they can't get NBC, FOX, or Hearst-Argyle to buy it. The rumors here have been they are close to bankruptcy and their stock was pulled from the market because it had been trading so low.


If they folded KRON tomorrow, wouldn't be a loss. And if they think Dish Network is a potential cash cow, they haven't looked at the Dish balance sheet lately.:nono2:


----------



## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

I have been a long time E* customer and have no plans to switch. I would like to ask though... I see many posts complaining of E* being cheap and Charlie screwing subs again over pennies and why doesn't E* just pay what the provider wants. Many posts also imply that D* has no such issues. Is this true?

If this is true with Young, I stand to lose ABC in my DMA. Wife is nervous so I hope not. Our OTA reception of ABC 10 out of Albany is not reliable 100 % of the time.


----------



## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

david_jr said:


> I see many posts complaining of E* being cheap and Charlie screwing subs again over pennies and why doesn't E* just pay what the provider wants.


The problem with saying that Dish should just "stop being cheap and pay what the provider wants" is that this would have a direct effect on our bills. So as long as you don't mind your Dish bill going up every time a channel thinks it needs a raise and you're willing to pay whatever that bill is no matter how high it is, after all you don't wan't anyone to think you're being cheap do you? While Dish does seem to have a reputation as tough negotiator this situation certainly isn't unique to Dish. Recently where I live two local CBS channels where pulled off our local cable company's line-up for about a month over this same kind of dispute. And you hear about it happening more and more, it's being instigated by the companies that own the local channels, they feel they should be compensated when a reseller re-transmits their signal. Now I can sort of understand why they might think that at first before they really think about things but once all the facts are out and they're still asking for money I think they're just being greedy and here's why. First of all tv channel providers whether they be cable, satellite, fiber or whatever make a huge investment to get their system in place to get the signal to the customers. Do they ask the local tv channels to share in this cost? No it doesn't cost them a penny. Now do the local tv channels benefit from their signal being carried on these systems? Absolutely! Their channel ends up in more homes and in more homes more clearly and reliably because of it. So they get the benefit of something that didn't cost them anything and yet they think they ought to be further compensated, like I said, greed.


----------



## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

In my opinion locals stations have been essentially given spectrum to broadcast in and they are supposed to have at least some responsibility to serve the community. The fact that it is broadcast into the air with the intention that anyone in that area can recieve it without paying a fee nullifies their right to charge ANY amount for retransmission in that same DMA. If they incur costs to enable or simplify the retransmission of their signal then they have a right to be compensated for that effort, otherwise they should be using the increased viewer numbers to improve their advertising dollars, not using their viewers as a bargaining chip in retrans agreements. :icon_lame 

As others have said, this is nothing more than them looking for any source of revenue they can find because they are on the ropes.


----------



## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

The perception is that E* is being cheap and D* just pays whatever. I want E* to hold the line on the price increases so this is not a complaint from me. My bill is high enough and when I upgrade to HD it is going up again. I was just wondering if the perception with D* is just that, perception, or do they just pay whatever the provider wants and keep the channels? Not that it will make me jump to them, it won't, I just wonder. I wish I had a nickel for all the "I'm fed up with E* being cheap and not adding x channel and I'm going to D*" posts I've seen. I agree 100% that the local stations should allow retransmission for free. After all not only do they get the use of the airwaves for free, but they have an exclusive stranglehold on the DMA which does not allow me to shop elswhere for TV if I am not happy with what they are providing. This alone should mandate the free retransmission of their signals into their own DMA by whatever provider is willing to do so. Where is congress on this? Many people, myself included, depend on Sat for locals because OTA is not reliable all the time and there is no cable or FIOS here. In fact there's no FIOS most places so I'm a little tired of the rants that "Sat can't keep up with FIOS" too. Let's see how long it takes FIOS to cover what Sat covers. Sat really destroys FIOS outside of major population centers.


----------



## buzzcut (Dec 12, 2006)

according to KELOLAND.com, they have extended the deadline to DISH-----4pm cst Dec 11 (today).


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

david_jr said:


> I see many posts complaining of E* being cheap and Charlie screwing subs again over pennies and why doesn't E* just pay what the provider wants. Many posts also imply that D* has no such issues. Is this true?


It is believed to be true ... DirecTV does have problems getting agreements from stations - they have several markets with missing HD channels. Without doing a complete inventory I'd say DISH has more of these 'holes' and certainly has the reputation for not accepting a station's or channel's first offer - especially to the point of allowing contracts to expire.

I'd like to see more contracts continue at prior terms during negotiations until carriage is actually refused by the staions ... if we must have a system with contracts the goal should be carriage.

I'm surprised that there are not more issues carrying channels ... especially now stations are going digital. Many stations have held their HD feeds for ransom - a practice that I do not support.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

This is likely to be an expanding problem. The advertising revenue for the networks and the local affiliates is down. There is alot of "infrastructure" that each affiliates pay for to keep running. There is alot of "infrastructure" that Dish (and Direct and cable) pays for to bring us each local station.

It would be much better for the networks, the viewers, and the nation if we satellite/cable paid an average of $0.50 per "channel" in a package that included directly-from-the-network programming on ABC, CBS, Fox, My Network TV, NBC, PBS, and The CW, plus per DMA one or more locals that provides at least two hours of local news daily and four hours of local programmng daily. For locals that provide little or no local programming and lots of "Friends" reruns and old movies, let them die or become user-fee-based digital broadcast versions of USA, FX, and other cable channels.

It's time to quit subsidizing owners of local broadcast stations by adhering to the 1958 version of the off-the-air television economic model.

That's my advocacy for the day.:sure:


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Well presented argument.... except playing the discrimination card makes them look silly.


Plus Young Broadcasting is cheap. They bought KRON-TV in San Francisco in 2001 which was NBC. Since then they let their talent go. Now they mostly have infomercials, news & Mynetwork..


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

sum_random_dork said:


> Young is in serious financial trouble to say the least, they may be looking to Dish for a bit of cash infusion. They have had KRON for sale for at least a year probably 2 but they can't get NBC, FOX, or Hearst-Argyle to buy it. The rumors here have been they are close to bankruptcy and their stock was pulled from the market because it had been trading so low.


KRON-TV has been for sale for 5 or 6 years.


----------



## mstanka (Jan 26, 2003)

Here in Nashville the ABC channel (WKRN) is also owned by Young Broadcasting and the same thing happened with them about 8 years ago or so when I was with Dish Network.

Just to let you know, the channel was off of Dish Network for about a year (came back on, on Jan 1st).

You might be in for the long haul.

This was also one of the reasons that I left Dish Network, and also because of the Viacom issue that they did the same thing, pulled them all because of a contract dispute.

Good luck.

Michael.


----------



## Shellback X 23 (Sep 19, 2004)

Back when Dish carried Distant Locals and you had a South Dakota address, ANYWHERE in the state, you could not get a waiver for CBS as KELO control the whole state. A service tech came by to upgrade my LNB while I was in Rapid City before Dish added RC LIL and saw that I was watching CBS in Denver. He said he had never seen any Dish customer getting CBS because of KELO blocking ALL waivers. Also in western SD on Mountain Time you watched the signal from Sioux Falls on Central Time so programs were 2 hours ahead of East coast times for us in RC. Leno at 9:30!!


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Young Broadcasting locals have been taken down as of 7 PM ET.


----------



## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

I just saw that in Nashville. Channel 2 is down with just an info message about Young Brodacasting.

At least I have an antenna.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

snowcat said:


> I just saw that in Nashville. Channel 2 is down with just an info message about Young Brodacasting.
> 
> At least I have an antenna.


Do we get another ABC network or do we just lose our ABC programming while the contract is in dispute?


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

You just lose it.


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Jambals said:


> Do we get another ABC network or do we just lose our ABC programming while the contract is in dispute?


You use to be able to apply for a waiver. I did when the Viacom stations were turned off and I received CBS Atlanta for an extra $1.50 per month. Can't do that anymore.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

JohnH said:


> You just lose it.


I should have the option of getting another ABC provider. I understand Dish not wanting to pay Youngs 20% hike in price but I in turn shouldn't have to be completely without any ABC service. If this is going to be for any length of time I may have to dump Dish than.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Jambals said:


> ... If this is going to be for any length of time I may have to dump Dish than.


That'll send a message. Keep costs down but don't keep costs down. :lol:


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Jambals said:


> I should have the option of getting another ABC provider. I understand Dish not wanting to pay Youngs 20% hike in price but I in turn shouldn't have to be completely without any ABC service. If this is going to be for any length of time I may have to dump Dish than.


You do - cable, Direct Tv, or OTA.


----------



## UKWildcatFan (Apr 23, 2008)

Well I won't be going back to DTV because billing disputes, so it looks like its gonna be Comcast. Thanks Dish its been a nice ride and thanks to the peeps who have helped when I had a question.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

SaltiDawg said:


> That'll send a message. Keep costs down but don't keep costs down. :lol:


What I'm saying is they should offer me the chance to get ABC from somewhere else. When they didn't offer my locals I got all the main networks from some where else. I don't see why they can't provide ABC this way again even if I had to pay something. That's why I said if they won't & it's going to be awhile than I might leave.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH cannot legally offer an out of market network affiliate station under any circumstance.
Even if they could offer distants at all - to bring a distant station into a market would require a waiver from the local station.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

James Long said:


> DISH cannot legally offer an out of market network affiliate station under any circumstance.
> Even if they could offer distants at all - to bring a distant station into a market would require a waiver from the local station.


Than how could they offer me the networks before when they wasn't giving me my locals than.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

scooper said:


> You do - cable, Direct Tv, or OTA.


If I needed a smart _ _ s I would have called you. I do believe I already know that those options are available. Thank You


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Jambals said:


> Than how could they offer me the networks before when they wasn't giving me my locals than.


That must have been long before Dish got handed the death penalty on offering Distant Networks to customers who didn't really qualify for them.

If you feel you qualify - you can try contacting All American Direct.


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try All American Direct and see if you qualify for distant locals or get a RV waiver.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jambals said:


> Than how could they offer me the networks before when they wasn't giving me my locals than.


'Before' was before DISH lost the right to offer distants two years ago?

All American Direct may be able to help ... but if you are in the Grade B coverage of the missing station or any other affiliate of the network that station represents you will need waivers from ALL the stations that cover you. An RV waiver requires an RV.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

scooper said:


> That must have been long before Dish got handed the death penalty on offering Distant Networks to customers who didn't really qualify for them.
> 
> If you feel you qualify - you can try contacting All American Direct.


It was awhile ago. I didn't know they got in trouble for doing that. Guess I'll see what happens. Got until Wed. before my wife will miss any shows.


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

James Long said:


> 'Before' was before DISH lost the right to offer distants two years ago?
> 
> All American Direct may be able to help ... but if you are in the Grade B coverage of the missing station or any other affiliate of the network that station represents you will need waivers from ALL the stations that cover you. An RV waiver requires an RV.


Thanks Guess I'm just without ABC until it gets resolved. Guess I'll run a cable from my PC to my TV & can watch programming that way


----------



## computerguysd (Dec 12, 2008)

It's official in South Dakota, KELO (CBS) and Dish failed to come to terms. Personally, I'm more upset with KELO than Dish since CBS is a (free) broadcast channel and they want a 20% increase from Dish...


----------



## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

All Young stations are affected.

Expect a News Monitor post tonight with information on contacting Young Broadcasting Investor Relations. Make your voice heard!


----------



## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

WTEN 10 Albany has been turned off.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

That's not good for those in South Dakota with Dish Network. KELO is the only CBS affilate in South Dakota and their local news is very popular. Not to mention a major blizzard is going to effect the Dakota's this weekend.


----------



## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

How will the program guide work in terms of recording shows?

I noticed that you can see the schedule in advance, but the current show is always "Important info" (or something like that).

My channel affected is the ABC affliate. So lets say I wanted to record Desperate Housewives this week on the OTA channel (002-01). Since it shares the same program guide as the Dish provided station, will it record by name?

I may just have to try it and see. The only show I ever record on ABC is Lost, and that still has some time before it comes back on the air. I am worried that this dispute may last till then, if it is anything like the last time.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Jambals said:


> Thanks Guess I'm just without ABC until it gets resolved. Guess I'll run a cable from my PC to my TV & can watch programming that way


Except for local news, the networks all provide some programming this way. It would be rather ironic if many Dish subscribers did this and discovered they didn't need a particular local though if you want HD quality it's still better from Dish than it is from video streams.:grin:


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

UKWildcatFan said:


> Well I won't be going back to DTV because billing disputes, so it looks like its gonna be Comcast. Thanks Dish its been a nice ride and thanks to the peeps who have helped when I had a question.


You're leaving Dish won't help. It's Young Broadcasting fault. CHEAPOS!


----------



## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

phrelin said:


> Except for local news, the networks all provide some programming this way. It would be rather ironic if many Dish subscribers did this and discovered they didn't need a particular local though if you want HD quality it's still better from Dish than it is from video streams.:grin:


I set up an XBMC machine a few days ago. It works great! Best of all, it doesn't cost a time! Streaming Netflix and Hulu is easy as pie.

http://xbmc.org/


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

CorpITGuy said:


> I set up an XBMC machine a few days ago. It works great! Best of all, it doesn't cost a time! Streaming Netflix and Hulu is easy as pie.
> 
> http://xbmc.org/


OK. Somehow that whole development escaped my attention. A "to do" after Christmas.


----------



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Sorry this is late, I wasn't able to remotely access my home email today.

Jason

---------------------------------------------------------------

Please find below an example of a release we issued to local press in 11 markets after 5:00 p.m. MT regarding Young Broadcasting, Inc. The markets: Lansing, Mich.; Lafayette, La.; Albany, N.Y.; Nashville, Tenn.; Knoxville, Tenn.; Green Bay, Wisc.; Richmond, Va.; Davenport, Iowa; San Francisco, Ca.; Sioux Falls, S.D.; Rapid City, S.D. Thanks, Parker

*YOUNG BROADCASTING, INc. FORCES DISH NETWORK**®** TO REMOVE ITS *
*ALBANY**, N.Y.** ABC Channel from its Lineup*​
*ENGLEWOOD**, Colo. - Dec. 11, 2008* - DISH Network Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) today announced that it has been forced to remove WTEN (ABC) Ch. 10 from its programming lineup in Albany, N.Y. 
Young Broadcasting, Inc. is demanding unreasonable contract terms and an excessive rate increase for continued carriage on DISH Network - an increase that DISH Network is unwilling to pass on to customers. To protect customers from unreasonable rate increases and to ensure they pay only a fair amount every month, DISH Network draws the line at such excess and challenges strong-arm tactics. In the last few years, DISH Network has negotiated for retransmission consent with nearly 1,000 other local TV stations and has reached a fair agreement with all of them.
"It is unfortunate that Young Broadcasting has forced us into this situation and caused this disruption to our customers," said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for DISH Network. "Our goal is to remain the best value for our customers and in order to do this, we need fair contracts with competitive pricing for the channels our customers want to watch. This is why we refuse to accept Young Broadcasting's unreasonable terms."
DISH Network's contract with Young Broadcasting expired on Dec. 10, 2008. The absence of a contract means that DISH Network is no longer able to provide WTEN to its subscribers. 
As programming fees comprise a significant percentage of DISH Network's expenses, Young Broadcasting's demands would translate into a significant cost increase that DISH Network would have to pass along to its customers in the form of higher monthly bills. 
"We deeply regret the inconvenience this disruption may cause any of our subscribers," Sahl added. "Subscribers should rest assured that we continue to take the necessary steps to ensure that DISH Network remains the source for the best quality TV at the best total value." 
DISH Network encourages subscribers to visit www.fairsatellite.com/YABC for more information.

# # #​
*About DISH Network Corporation 
*DISH Network Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH), the nation's third largest pay-TV provider and the leader in digital television, provides approximately 13.78 million satellite TV customers as of Sept. 30, 2008 with industry-leading customer satisfaction which has surpassed major cable TV providers for eight consecutive years. DISH Network also provides customers with award-winning HD and DVR technology including the ViP®722 HD DVR, which received the Editors' Choice awards from both CNET and PC Magazine. In addition, subscribers enjoy access to hundreds of video and audio channels, the most International channels in the U.S., industry-leading Interactive TV applications, Latino programming, and the best sports and movies in HD. DISH Network offers a variety of package and price options including the lowest all-digital price in America, the DishDVR Advantage Package, high-speed Internet service, and a free upgrade to the best HD DVR in the industry. DISH Network is included in the Nasdaq-100 Index (NDX) and is a Fortune 300 company. Visit www.dishnetwork.com or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) for more information.


----------



## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

What channel is affected in Nashville TN? I get my locals from there. Although it's DirecTV and not Dish. What is to say that the network won't ask the same of DirecTV?


----------



## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

xmguy said:


> What channel is affected in Nashville TN? I get my locals from there. Although it's DirecTV and not Dish. What is to say that the network won't ask the same of DirecTV?


WKRN ABC


----------



## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Jambals said:


> WKRN ABC


I found that out on Wikiapedia. But thanks. Does anyone know if this will happen with DirecTV also?


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

xmguy said:


> I found that out on Wikiapedia. But thanks. Does anyone know if this will happen with DirecTV also?


It could. With national channels like USA, Sci-Fi, TNT where they negotiate with one broadcaster they can get one rate for the entire U.S. With locals they have to try to negotiate with station owners in each city. Or some with stations in multiple cities. But if any one of them demands an exorbitant rate then DirecTV can't give in to them or every local would demand the same rate, so they won't carry that local. The Networks can't make any demands on local owners on the rates that they want from Dish or DirecTV. So Dish and DirecTV have to negotiate with hundreds of local owners.

.


----------



## Spoonser (Feb 16, 2008)

The whole system of local carriage is really stupid, or at the very least a bad deal for the consumer. But frankly I think the DBS companies have the upper hand over the long run, but then again that depends on consumers tolerating it over the short run. 

What I mean is that if a station holds out for more money, the DBS company can tell them "no" and in the mean time the local station loses that revenue plus has a smaller audience (especially for viewers out of range of their antennas) which hits their local advertising revenue. But if consumers get fed up and move away from the DBS company it doesn't matter, they'll cave. 

However, I can say that locally where I am I'd finally get an OTA antenna before I'd switch to cable. Cable here (like most places) is terrible in terms of selection and DVR technology.


----------



## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

DirecTv has already started an ad campaign in Nashville. In the sports section of the Tennessean, they have a half-page ad that read likes this:

ATTENTION: DISH Network customers!
Nashville, without ABC
(picture of a TV with the "Grey's Anatomy" logo on it)
will be DOA.

ABC affiliate WKRN-TV is no longer on DISH Network.

Fed up with missing your favorite shows? You can't get ABC with DISH Network. Which means you can't watch Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Ugly Betty or your local news from them.

Call DIRECTV, America's #1 satellite TV provider, today and get your favorite shows back!

--------------------------------------

I just bought a 2nd antenna yesterday for my bedroom TV, so I am all set.  But I don't blame DirecTv for trying. I bet Comcast has some ads soon as well.

And back to my earlier problem, it looks like I will have to do time-based timers to record anything on ABC. The program guide is complete filled with the same mesage.


----------



## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

The thing that really stinks about this is that the Retro Network was carried on WTEN 10-3 in Albany. But, the subs could probably just put up an OTA and life goes on.


----------



## Cable_X (Nov 12, 2007)

snowcat said:


> DirecTv has already started an ad campaign in Nashville. In the sports section of the Tennessean, they have a half-page ad that read likes this:
> 
> ATTENTION: DISH Network customers!
> Nashville, without ABC
> ...


I saw the same ad in Knoxville for WATE-TV channel 6 as well.


----------



## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

E* shouldn't block the guide data for OTA (I would doubt that they have to block it because they get it from Tribune). That actually give them more breathing room because all customers who recieve it OTA don't care as much that it isn't available over the sat.


----------



## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

snowcat said:


> DirecTv has already started an ad campaign in Nashville. In the sports section of the Tennessean, they have a half-page ad that read likes this:
> 
> ATTENTION: DISH Network customers!
> Nashville, without ABC
> ...


Oh yeah this is pretty typical. When the local cable company where I live lost CBS to a dispute for a while there were all sorts of adds from both Dish and Directv telling people to switch to them to get their CBS shows. Of course around here CBS is the station that carries most the Colts games on Sunday afternoons so you know that was a big "selling point" in the ads as well.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The competition will jump on the opportunity to flip customers but put the shoe on the other foot and have the station leave DirecTV or cable and they will wish that their competition wouldn't do that.

The EPG issue is a problem ... since DISH uses the same EPG for their rebroadcast as they apply to the OTA feed the option would be having the slate channel (now video) show up instead of one's favorite shows. Setting up a recording of Eli Stone and getting an hour of Michael McKenna (Director of Programming, DISH Network) apologizing over and over.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

James Long said:


> ... Setting up a recording of Eli Stone and getting an hour of Michael McKenna (Director of Programming, DISH Network) apologizing over and over.


Michael McKenna's voice and image is not going to appear in a recording made with the *OTA* Tuner. I'm sure Dish could put Mr. McKenna on the Sat local not withstanding what the Guide says.

I'm not arguing for this, however it's not impossible *technically* for Dish to put up the local guide info without the actual Sat programming. They do it all the time when the upfeed is lost for our locals during heavy storms or other problem - *Dish* airs a message screen.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

People recording OTA would get the OTA but people recording satellite would get 20 copies of Michael McKenna's apology. It is a trade off. What is right depends on just how many people watch OTA via satellite.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

snowcat said:


> DirecTv has already started an ad campaign in Nashville. In the sports section of the Tennessean, they have a half-page ad that read likes this:
> 
> ATTENTION: DISH Network customers!
> Nashville, without ABC
> ...


You can watch your ABC shows on http://www.abc.com.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

We will not know how this all will affect Directv until their contract comes up for renewal. I believe this is going to happen more and more since the nets and locals are experiencing diminished advertising revenue. They may feel that they can make it up out of Dish and Directv.

In any case, IMO Young Broadcasting is probably in financial trouble and looking for a new revenue stream.

EDIT: They do seem to be in real trouble. A pile of debt and facing bankruptcy.
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2008/11/17/daily43.html


----------



## T_N_T (Sep 9, 2008)

Although I don't have E* and I hope Young Broadcasting doesn't yank their programming for D*, I would imagine they would block any waivers submitted just so they can prove a point. :nono: WKRN/Young Broadcasting gets a huge thumbs down from me. And their news isen't even in HD.


----------



## T_N_T (Sep 9, 2008)

Also, something I have noticed, all the Nashville affiliates pump Comcast "The Leader in HD"(as they say), like its the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

T_N_T said:


> Although I don't have E* and I hope Young Broadcasting doesn't yank their programming for D*, I would imagine they would block any waivers submitted just so they can prove a point. :nono: WKRN/Young Broadcasting gets a huge thumbs down from me. And their news isen't even in HD.


In the Albany, NY DMA only one of the big four network stations has their news in HD and it's not the Young station. There has been talk that WTEN was going to go HD news since early this year, but it hasn't happened yet. Doesn't look good either if Young is doing as badly as reported. The one station with news in HD is WRGB 6 and their HD feed is not on DISH either, but their SD is. I don't know what it's like in other markets, but DISH seems to be having trouble getting agreements in this market.


----------



## jwjensen356 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> People recording OTA would get the OTA but people recording satellite would get 20 copies of Michael McKenna's apology. It is a trade off. What is right depends on just how many people watch OTA via satellite.


It's happened here in the San Francisco area. KRON has now been pulled. Re the EPG on our 722, 004-00 and 004-01 are affected. But we are still getting the OTA channels identified as 004-02 and 004-03 on the EPG.

My wife is the one who watches KRON. She comments that much of the programming is now 'infomercials'. Also, that the on-screen staff have made snide comments on you long they will last.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

lwilli201 said:


> We will not know how this all will affect Directv until their contract comes up for renewal. I believe this is going to happen more and more since the nets and locals are experiencing diminished advertising revenue. They may feel that they can make it up out of Dish and Directv.
> 
> In any case, IMO Young Broadcasting is probably in financial trouble and looking for a new revenue stream.
> 
> ...


Young Broadcasting is asking 800.000 for KRON-TV. That was a few years back. For a two bit station that's way overpriced for ruining a one time Emmy winning television station. SAD.........


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

jwjensen356 said:


> My wife is the one who watches KRON. She comments that much of the programming is now 'infomercials'. Also, that the on-screen staff have made snide comments on you long they will last.


When I lived in the Bay Area, KRON (NBC at the time) was a very good channel, with a highly regarded staff of talent, both behind the scenes and in front of the camera. Then, when NBC was moved to KNTV, KRON started cutting staff and on-air talent. As the talent was leaving for greener pastures the on-air comments started happening more frequently. In particular, the lead-in to sports with Gary Radnich. Radnich would often make the other talent squirm in their chairs with some of his "inside" comments. :lol: On-air comments aren't unusual for KRON.


----------



## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

lwilli201 said:


> We will not know how this all will affect Directv until their contract comes up for renewal. I believe this is going to happen more and more since the nets and locals are experiencing diminished advertising revenue. They may feel that they can make it up out of Dish and Directv.
> 
> In any case, IMO Young Broadcasting is probably in financial trouble and looking for a new revenue stream.
> 
> ...


Sounds stupid on Young Broadcasting's side. If you are in a money pinch wouldnt it be better to get a small increase then go for a larger one and lose some much needed revenue?


----------



## ThunderRoad (May 13, 2006)

I have one of the channels affected by Young....and I just checked and I have it back.....anyone else have theirs back? Seems awfully strange something would get ironed out on a Sunday afternoon. LOL And the Young station I have, their website still has it saying that Dish Network has dropped them.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Looks like they are all back. Uplink report coming up.


----------



## beetle02 (Nov 14, 2007)

WKRN in Nashville is back up. Starting working late this afternoon.


----------



## Suomi (Jan 7, 2006)

WLNS in Lansing, Michigan is on the air, and the guide shows the current shows, but if you scroll ahead in the guide an hour or two, the guide is still showing "Important News - Press Info." I'm not exactly sure what's going on at this point.


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Suomi said:


> WLNS in Lansing, Michigan is on the air, and the guide shows the current shows, but if you scroll ahead in the guide an hour or two, the guide is still showing "Important News - Press Info." I'm not exactly sure what's going on at this point.


Your guide data is out of date and is using the satellite's hourly data.


----------



## Suomi (Jan 7, 2006)

Blowgun said:


> Your guide data is out of date and is using the satellite's hourly data.


Good to know. I'll force the guide to update.


----------



## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Do people in the Bay Area really care whether or not they get KRON?? Young Broadcasting always acts like it's a prime station when they ruined it ever since they bought it and they are last in the ratings.


----------



## mstanka (Jan 26, 2003)

T_N_T said:


> Also, something I have noticed, all the Nashville affiliates pump Comcast "The Leader in HD"(as they say), like its the best thing since sliced bread.


I've seen the offered HD from Comcast, and it is not better then what DirecTV offers.

I like the channel 2 news with Lisa Patton for weather (WKRN - Young), but I do wish it was HD. Channel 5 and now channel 4 are both in HD.

With the financial troubles that Young seems to be in, looks like Fox may get thier news in HD before WKRN.

Michael.


----------



## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

DirecTv is running radio ads on a Nashville sports talk station saying that Channel 2 is gone. 

FAIL!


----------



## T_N_T (Sep 9, 2008)

snowcat said:


> DirecTv is running radio ads on a Nashville sports talk station saying that Channel 2 is gone.
> 
> FAIL!


Seems like Nashville media does stuff like this alot...:lol:


----------



## bud22923 (Dec 16, 2008)

Dish Network always try's to offer you the All American Direct those are out of state stations I keep emailing them telling them to put our local stations out of Marquette Michigan on Dish Network they just keep giving me a run around the 2 of the TV stations already filled out the forms to put these stations on Dish Network but haven't had no luck yet. There are a total of 5 tv stations that are in Marquette Michigan NBC ABC CBS FOX & PBS. Dose anybody out there know who I can email at Dish Network that's high up person there about this?


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jwjensen356 said:


> It's happened here in the San Francisco area. KRON has now been pulled. Re the EPG on our 722, 004-00 and 004-01 are affected. But we are still getting the OTA channels identified as 004-02 and 004-03 on the EPG.
> 
> My wife is the one who watches KRON. She comments that much of the programming is now 'infomercials'. Also, that the on-screen staff have made snide comments on you long they will last.


I blocked KRON.


----------



## sethwell (Sep 19, 2008)

bud22923 said:


> Dish Network always try's to offer you the All American Direct those are out of state stations I keep emailing them telling them to put our local stations out of Marquette Michigan on Dish Network they just keep giving me a run around the 2 of the TV stations already filled out the forms to put these stations on Dish Network but haven't had no luck yet. There are a total of 5 tv stations that are in Marquette Michigan NBC ABC CBS FOX & PBS. Dose anybody out there know who I can email at Dish Network that's high up person there about this?


It might not be dish that is the reason they aren't carried. i would contact the stations that are in question in your DMA( DMA 208). here is a ( link ) to your dma with all call signs in that market. i would start there and ask those station why they do not provide service to dish network.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

edited by garn9173...wrong thread


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

garn9173 said:


> edited by garn9173...wrong thread


Yep. This is the thread where the channels were back in 70 hours ... which would be 9pm (PT) Saturday if the Fishers issue is solved just as quickly.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> When I lived in the Bay Area, KRON (NBC at the time) was a very good channel, with a highly regarded staff of talent, both behind the scenes and in front of the camera. Then, when NBC was moved to KNTV, KRON started cutting staff and on-air talent. As the talent was leaving for greener pastures the on-air comments started happening more frequently. In particular, the lead-in to sports with Gary Radnich. Radnich would often make the other talent squirm in their chairs with some of his "inside" comments. :lol: On-air comments aren't unusual for KRON.


Gary's still making snide remarks on his radio show.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Link said:


> Do people in the Bay Area really care whether or not they get KRON?? Young Broadcasting always acts like it's a prime station when they ruined it ever since they bought it and they are last in the ratings.


Hi Link. I don't care about KRON, because there's nothing but news hosted by new newscasters, or Inside Edition. Young guted KCAL in Los Angeles about 15 years ago. They sold it CBS and made a bundle.


----------

