# Time for the annual "discussion" with DTV and looking at Dish



## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Next month, this year's "discounts" for DTV go away and I have to start the annual multiple phone calls... Currently have 2 HD DVRs and 2 receivers in the house, and a DVR16 in the RV. Old, grandfathered plan.

Looking at a Genie and 3 wired or wireless genie minis. A Genie Go to push shows onto a computer PRESUMING they're COPIED not moved. Replace the DVR16 with one of the HR24s. Time to validate the "account rep" claims:
1. I can record FIVE concurrent shows of my choice at all times on the Genie
2. I can COPY programs from the Genie to a computer for playback away from the home.
3. Here's a question I didn't get ANY answer to "How many programs can I SCHEDULE FOR RECORDING ON AN HR44?" I got two answers from DTV - first "5", and when I clarified "Not concurrent recording, but programs to record" I was told "AS MANY AS YOU WANT"... So, how many CAN I schedule for recording?
4, Local channels when traveling require the "distant network" and a separate account. I've gotten different answers on this one, so what IS the requirement?

So, I called Dish...... And was told to do 4 in-house TVs and have an HD DVR in the RV I'd need a Hopper, A Super Joey, 2 Joeys, and an HD DVR. Same verification:
1. I was told the hopper can ONLY RECORD 3 shows outside the "Prime Time Anytime". Otherwise, I was told it just dumps all 4 networks prime time programs onto the disk whether you want them or not. 
2. With the Super Joey I could add two additional recording, so with those two devices I could do a maximum of 5 concurrent recordings of my choice.
3. I can have EITHER 200 or 576 programs scheduled for recording (the person didn't appear to know which it was)...
4. The HD DVR is completely separate from the network the hopper is on. They don't talk or share anything. It would have to be purchased separately for between $150 and $300.
4. I can MOVE programs from the hopper to a computer or tablet BUT NOT COPY THEM.
5. I CAN (in theory) copy programs from the hopper to a hard disk, then plug THAT hard drive into the HD DVR and still have the programs on the Hopper...
6. Commercial skip is like the one 10-15 years ago on VCRs. It detects start and end of the block of commercials. BUT, it's only available on SOME network shows and doesn't always work. Apparently, it's not available on non-network shows and has some other limitations... 
7. I can get local channels wherever I am by simply contacting customer service and providing a zip code... (too good to be true?)

At this point I kind-of got tired of the multiple, extended waits while the account rep went off to find answers and figured I had enough info.

It sounds like either system will enable recording up to 5 programs while concurrently watching at least 2 recorded or live programs, put recorded programs on a computer for playback, or copy programs to the dvr for playback.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I can answer the DirecTV questions
1. Yes, you can record 5 concurrent shows on the Genie but you cannot watch something else live if you are recording 5. You have to watch a recording or one of the 5 shows you are recording.
2. Yes, the GenieGO does copy the recording
3. You are limited to 100 series links for automatically recording every episode of a series but I know of no limit on manual recordings
4. You need an RV account and distant network service but it will be either Los Angeles or New York city locals, not the locals for where you are.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dkperez said:


> Looking at a Genie and 3 wired or wireless genie minis.
> 1. I can record FIVE concurrent shows of my choice at all times on the Genie


To clarify this question since you are getting minis

if you are watching live TV at the Genie and all 3 minis as the saker time, you can only record one additional show as the minis borrows a tuner from the Genie to watch live TV

if the Genie and the minis are all off, then you can record 5 shows. In theory you can record 5 live shows even if you are watching live TV every where, but I am referencing different shows than the ones you are currently watching.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> if you are watching live TV at the Genie and all 3 minis as the saker time, you can only record one additional show as the minis borrows a tuner from the Genie to watch live TV


Are the Genie tuners not freed up if the minis are watching pre-recorded programming?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And keep in mind, anything transferred to the GenieGo expire in 30 days. This expiration doesn't affect the copy on the DVR, it just can't be played on the computer anymore without retranscoding.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dkperez said:


> 2. I can COPY programs from the Genie to a computer for playback away from the home.


You can transcode a copy of the program using a GenieGo (as you could be doing now with your HR2x DVRs). The copy will be in a significantly lower resolution and expires in 30 days.


> 3. Here's a question I didn't get ANY answer to "How many programs can I SCHEDULE FOR RECORDING ON AN HR44?" I got two answers from DTV - first "5", and when I clarified "Not concurrent recording, but programs to record" I was told "AS MANY AS YOU WANT"... So, how many CAN I schedule for recording?


Last I checked, the series recording list can't exceed 100 different shows (it doesn't matter how many times each show is recorded). You may be able to get additional recordings with a season pass type of recording where a search criteria is used instead of asking for a particular show.


> 4, Local channels when traveling require the "distant network" and a separate account. I've gotten different answers on this one, so what IS the requirement?


DNS is NOT local channels. You can change your service address to get channels local to where you are as necessary. Anyone left at home will be without locals (actually, they're not supposed to be watching at all outside the current service address). IIRC, you _cannot_ get local channels on an RV account.


> So, I called Dish...... And was told to do 4 in-house TVs and have an HD DVR in the RV I'd need a Hopper, A Super Joey, 2 Joeys, and an HD DVR. Same verification:


DISH doesn't allow you to have an HD DVR on a Hopper account. You can convert a HD receiver to a DVR by adding a USB 2.0 hard drive (must be self-powered) but you'll still only have one satellite tuner.


> 6. Commercial skip is like the one 10-15 years ago on VCRs. It detects start and end of the block of commercials. BUT, it's only available on SOME network shows and doesn't always work. Apparently, it's not available on non-network shows and has some other limitations...


AutoHop is only available with Prime Time Anytime channels (the Big Four) and only if PTAT is enabled.


> 7. I can get local channels wherever I am by simply contacting customer service and providing a zip code... (too good to be true?)


As with DIRECTV, you can change your service address.


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

> DNS is NOT local channels. You can change your service address to get channels local to where you are as necessary. Anyone left at home will be without locals (actually, they're not supposed to be watching at all outside the current service address). IIRC, you _cannot_ get local channels on an RV account.


That isn't entirely correct. I get both the DNS (east coast) AND my local channels. They do allow you to "refuse" your locals on those mobile accounts though and save $3

But you still need the separate account. If you only have a Genie and one other box or so you can assign all of them locations in your RV and get away with one account. But In your case you would never convince them your RV has as many boxes as your current setup,

Some have still called in while travelling to get their "local" channels where they currently are, but based on posts your mileage will vary on that.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> And keep in mind, anything transferred to the GenieGo expire in 30 days. This expiration doesn't affect the copy on the DVR, it just can't be played on the computer anymore without retranscoding.


The program doesn't have to be re-transcoded if it's still on the GG, just re-downloaded.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

The transcoded recording on the GenieGo is not deleted from the GenieGo as long as the original recording still exists on the source HD DVR/Genie. What does expire in 30 days is any program that's been downloaded to a PC/Smartphone/Table.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> Are the Genie tuners not freed up if the minis are watching pre-recorded programming?


I guess you missed the LIVE part&#8230; Oh well&#8230;.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> I guess you missed the LIVE part&#8230; Oh well&#8230;.


Your comments didn't mention any middle ground between watching live and turned off.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> Your comments didn't mention any middle ground between watching live and turned off.


Doesn't the client needs to be ON in order to watch LIVE TV&#8230;..amazing!!!!!!


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## tigerarmy247 (Sep 15, 2014)

I can confirm all of the Dish Network information. If you don't use Prime Time Anytime you will get the 5 free tuners for recording. The commercial skip though seems to only work through prime time anytime, so if you don't use it the auto skip won't work. (honestly this is basically a non issue, the remote has a ff 30 seconds button, hit that five times and the commercial break is usually done). I have Dish and love it, we just have a hopper and two joeys with the second best package and HBO and spend 128 a month.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

First, thanks everybody for the replies.......

We currently have DTV with two HR24s and a receiver in the house, and a DVR16 in the RV. For all practical purposes we time shift EVERYTHING. We can currently record up to 4 concurrent events, and it hasn't been a problem in ages as far as conflicts with watching live TV. But, we can't take programming from the in-house recorders and put it on the DVR in the RV... It would be nice to be able to COPY recordings from the in-house recorder(s) to the one in the RV. Failing that, to copy programming from the in-house recorder(s) to a laptop that could be used in the RV.

As for the account traveling... Last year, when having the multiple conversations with the folks at Directv, I was told exactly what was written in a reply here. I just call the phone answerer and have them change the service address. Unfortunately, in practice it did NOT WORK. Last spring, on TWO occasions while traveling in the southwest, I attempted to have Directv change our service address to where we were. In each case, they refused. I was told that if I wanted to get local channels (or their equivalent) I HAD TO HAVE A SEPARATE ACCOUNT FOR THE RV. And pay a DUPLICATE MONTHLY FEE.

The DTV site now makes reference to "directv for travelers" and shows a couple dishes for RV use. I ALREADY HAVE ONE. They also refer to "directv choice mobile package", which sure SOUNDS like yet another account with yet ANOTHER monthly fee...

I don't think I've grasped this whole "traveling" thing... DTV KNOWS we have an DVR in the RV. And if we stay with DTV it'll be one of the HR24s. So, if I'm in East Overshoe for the night or the week or however long, CAN i or CAN I NOT call and get the local channels where I am? I've been told (as I said earlier) that I CAN - of course this was when they were trying to get me to stay with DTV last November. But when I tried to actually do this, they refused... I don't want to refer to all of DTV as lying scumbags, but the discrepancy between what the people want the money told me and what the customer service people told me was significantly different... Which is why I'm getting confirmation here, 'cause in general "they" can't be trusted...

As for Dish... I did a comparison of the channels we actually watch to see which package I'd have to purchase. My wife FREQUENTLY watches HGTV, Food, Cooking Channel, and DIY (I wish she'd STOP watching DIY 'cause she keeps finding projects for me). I frequently watch various ESPN channels, MAVtv, Fox Sports 1 and 2, NBCS, and CBS Sports. Pretty much everything else was normal stuff. As near as I can tell, to get all the channels we use, we'd have to go to the 250+ package, which is fine. 

What does "Dish doesn't allow you to have an HD DVR on a Hopper account" mean? Does it mean I have to have a SEPARATE account, just to put a DVR in the RV? And pay DISH a SECOND monthly fee? On top of having to buy a DVR for use in the RV?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dkperez said:


> I don't think I've grasped this whole "traveling" thing... DTV KNOWS we have an DVR in the RV. And if we stay with DTV it'll be one of the HR24s. So, if I'm in East Overshoe for the night or the week or however long, *CAN i or CAN I NOT call and get the local channels where I am?* I've been told (as I said earlier) that I CAN - of course this was when they were trying to get me to stay with DTV last November. But when I tried to actually do this, they refused... I don't want to refer to all of DTV as lying scumbags, but the discrepancy between what the people want the money told me and what the customer service people told me was significantly different... Which is why I'm getting confirmation here, 'cause in general "they" can't be trusted...


The correct answer is you can't, or at least DIRECTV® is no supposed to this. You have a residential account not an RV account. With an RV account you dont get local channels but rather the DNS feeds. There is a difference. And yes an RV account will be separate for your residential account.

The fact that they do this from some folks, is more like a "favor" rather than policy


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

dkperez said:


> As for the account traveling... Last year, when having the multiple conversations with the folks at Directv, I was told exactly what was written in a reply here. I just call the phone answerer and have them change the service address. Unfortunately, in practice it did NOT WORK. Last spring, on TWO occasions while traveling in the southwest, I attempted to have Directv change our service address to where we were. In each case, they refused. I was told that if I wanted to get local channels (or their equivalent) I HAD TO HAVE A SEPARATE ACCOUNT FOR THE RV. And pay a DUPLICATE MONTHLY FEE.


Technically DirecTV isn't supposed to change the service address for you just to allow you to get locals. Honestly though some people get it done. If you want to try this approach my advice is to carefully look at the spotbeam maps and pick an area that you will be in for quite a while. If you only change a few times a year you likely can get away with it. But if you're changing every week they're not going to allow it. Most people who get away with this do it very infrequently and they don't mention an RV. They just call in and say they're transitioning to another home for the season and need to change their service address. Usually that works.



peds48 said:


> The correct answer is you can't, or at least DIRECTV® is no supposed to this. You have a residential account not an RV account. *With an RV account you dont get local channels but rather the DNS feeds*. There is a difference. And yes an RV account will be separate for your residential account.
> 
> The fact that they do this from some folks, is more like a "favor" rather than policy


peds48 is correct in that DirecTV requires a separate RV account, and honestly with the # of boxes you have you're not going to get away with lying about one. The part I highlighted in red is incorrect though. I have such an account with DNS, and I get the local channels for my assigned service area AND the DNS feeds. If you don't believe me look at the DNS forms on DirecTV's site. They do give you an option on the RV accounts to NOT get your service address locals and save $3, but by default they include both your service address locals and the DNS stations.


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

We use an am21 in our RV for locals since we don't have DNS, it works fine most of the time but obviously depends on location.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

To clarify tuners with Hopper/Super Joey - 5 tuners, fully integrated on all Joeys and Hopper. If you have Prime Time Anytime turned on, even just one day and saving for only one day, a tuner used for recording the 4 major networks can record all 4 at the same time 24/7, leaving the other 4 free for other use. Autohop also functions every day during prime time on those networks in that minimum one PTAT setting. If you add an OTA dongle, it adds an additional tuner.

Dish's RV setup on a Hopper account can only use the 211 HD receiver separate from the Hopper network. You can make it a DVR with an external hard drive, but that drive is not compatible with the other Dish receiver external hard drive system.

Hoppers can have 200 series timers with 576 individual events scheduled during the 9 days of guide data.

2 external hard drives can be connected to a Hopper at the same time and viewed by the Joeys, too. Recordings are transferred not copied and the hard drives are linked to your account, not the receiver, so that if you replace the Hopper they are still useable. (DRM restricts all providers from legally copying recorded HD programs.)

2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys would give you one more tuner (plus up to 2 OTA tuners), 400 series timers, 1152 events, over 2.5 TB of user storage (not counting EHDs), and all recordings can be viewed from any box.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dkperez said:


> I frequently watch various ESPN channels, MAVtv, Fox Sports 1 and 2, NBCS, and CBS Sports.


Here I think DISH has an edge. DISH carries MAVTV in HD while DIRECTV doesn't yet.


> What does "Dish doesn't allow you to have an HD DVR on a Hopper account" mean?


Please re-read my earlier reply in post #6 where I address this specific issue.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mexican-bum said:


> We use an am21 in our RV for locals since we don't have DNS, it works fine most of the time but obviously depends on location.


As the TS points out, OTA is a non-starter for the planned location.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Wow, lots of awesome replies. Y'all are a lot helpful to someone like me that's trying to figure out what makes the most sense - especially given how incredibly difficult it is to get information like this from the phone answerers at DTV or Dish. I'd hoped to be really impressed with the Dish people, but they guy I got on my first call spent at least 80% of the time with me on hold while he tried to find basic information I'd expect them to know immediately... Kinda exactly like the DTV people.

The PTAT thing - does it automatically record all 4 networks all the time, just prime time, or do I program what it'll record? I can't imagine having it record 24 hours/day of all 4 networks, or even recording the whole 3 hour prime time of all 4 networks... Do I control this, or is it just a massive dump of everything?

I just looked at the AM21, but even after reading the DTV blurb, I still don't understand what it does... I currently get local channels from the RV antenna when there ARE local channels. What does the AM21 do? If it feeds the local channels to the DVR that'd be really helpful, but if it's just a tuner what's the benefit? 

It's early here, and I was out before dawn chasing birds to photograph, so I'm probably still a little slow this morning, but the mechanics of Joeys, number of concurrent recordings, external drives on dish receivers, and so on is still murky even after rereading... I'll be back home tonight and give everything another read to see if it gets clearer... I have a LOT of spare disk drives - at least 6 1TB drives, and even a couple spare 2TB drives, and external drive carriers, so if it's easy enough to use external drives that would be handy. 

One of the topics I found (may not have been here) said an external drive on a Genie replaces the internal one and all recordings go to the external. If that's the case, and the format is the same, could I just switch the drive on the Genie when we leave, pop in an empty one, and use the external Genie drive with recordings on the HR24?

If I understood everything correctly (always a dangerous assumption), it sounds like DTV has a better option there since I can COPY programs to a laptop without losing them on the Genie. Dish only transfers programs? So,l if we put a bunch of programs on the computer, hit the road, and DON'T watch them all while away from home, with DTV I can watch the rest at home, but with Dish, they've been transferred to the computer and they're gone from the Hopper?

Lastly (for the moment), can I turn off the RV account - as in NOT pay a monthly fee for the winter months when the RV is just a big lump in the snow?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dkperez said:


> .
> 
> One of the topics I found (may not have been here) said an external drive on a Genie replaces the internal one and all recordings go to the external. If that's the case, and the format is the same, could I just switch the drive on the Genie when we leave, pop in an empty one, and use the external Genie drive with recordings on the HR24?


no. The recordings are encrypted to the DVR that made the recordings on the first place

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Having switched from Dish to Directv back in August, Genie HR44 and two minis, for me personally, if not for Sunday Ticket I'd switch back to Dish and a two Hopper + Joey system, (Hopper w/ sling, Hopper, and Joey,) Both systems have their plusses and minuses, but I am finding that I prefer the Dish approach and "system" over the Genie, Things like the To Do list being unreliable enough the advice from knowledgeable people here is to ignore it, to the way the To Do list is presented and functionality vs. Dish's, sound drop-outs, and just a lot of little things in the interface/approach where I find Dish's approach to be more "elegant" - again, for me.

That said, I'm not unhappy with my Directv setup and programming. I just prefer Dish's system. I can be happy with either - enough so Sunday Ticket is enough to tilt the choice for me to DTV for now.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

dkperez said:


> Wow, lots of awesome replies. Y'all are a lot helpful to someone like me that's trying to figure out what makes the most sense - especially given how incredibly difficult it is to get information like this from the phone answerers at DTV or Dish. I'd hoped to be really impressed with the Dish people, but they guy I got on my first call spent at least 80% of the time with me on hold while he tried to find basic information I'd expect them to know immediately... Kinda exactly like the DTV people.
> 
> The PTAT thing - does it automatically record all 4 networks all the time, just prime time, or do I program what it'll record? I can't imagine having it record 24 hours/day of all 4 networks, or even recording the whole 3 hour prime time of all 4 networks... Do I control this, or is it just a massive dump of everything?
> My understanding is that it records the prime time block every day. You dont program anything other than turning on PTAT. One important note is that AutoHop only works on PTAT recordings
> ...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> Having switched from Dish to Directv back in August, Genie HR44 and two minis, for me personally, if not for Sunday Ticket I'd switch back to Dish and a two Hopper + Joey system, (Hopper w/ sling, Hopper, and Joey,) Both systems have their plusses and minuses, but I am finding that I prefer the Dish approach and "system" over the Genie, Things like the To Do list being unreliable enough the advice from knowledgeable people here is to ignore it, to the way the To Do list is presented and functionality vs. Dish's, sound drop-outs, and just a lot of little things in the interface/approach where I find Dish's approach to be more "elegant" - again, for me.
> 
> That said, I'm not unhappy with my Directv setup and programming. I just prefer Dish's system. I can be happy with either - enough so Sunday Ticket is enough to tilt the choice for me to DTV for now.


They need to hide the dang to do list. It's not
Unreliable imho. It's just doesn't work the way many people Think it should and really it means nothing in the long run. Neither does dishes or anyone else really.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

longrider said:


> > The PTAT thing - does it automatically record all 4 networks all the time, just prime time, or do I program what it'll record? I can't imagine having it record 24 hours/day of all 4 networks, or even recording the whole 3 hour prime time of all 4 networks... Do I control this, or is it just a massive dump of everything?
> > My understanding is that it records the prime time block every day. You dont program anything other than turning on PTAT. One important note is that AutoHop only works on PTAT recordings


You get to choose which days of the week, which of the four networks to record and how many days (up to 8) to save what you recorded. AutoHop isn't available until the next day.


> I just looked at the AM21, but even after reading the DTV blurb, I still don't understand what it does... I currently get local channels from the RV antenna when there ARE local channels. What does the AM21 do? If it feeds the local channels to the DVR that'd be really helpful, but if it's just a tuner what's the benefit?
> The AM21 acts as an OTA tuner for teh DVR meaning anything you receive OTA can be recorded.


This feature is limited to OTA channels that DIRECTV provides guide data for. Business decisions that artificially restrict the utility of a device should not go unmentioned.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Neither does dishes or anyone else really.


I've not found the upcoming recordings listing on DISH DVRs to be particularly unreliable and I'm told that the TiVo DVRs do a good job at communicating what is supposed to happen.

To Do seems pretty self explanatory and if the feature doesn't do what its name suggests, the feature is broken. Perhaps not as broken as CIG used to be, but broken nonetheless.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> You get to choose which days of the week, which of the four networks to record and how many days (up to 8) to save what you recorded. AutoHop isn't available until the next day.
> This feature is limited to OTA channels that DIRECTV provides guide data for. Business decisions that artificially restrict the utility of a device should not go unmentioned.


Prove its a business decision and not something more logical like a massive data basing issue.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

One thing on the AM21, while it adds OTA recording capability, it does not add tuners. If you put an AM21 on a Genie, you still have 5 total tuners, 2 tuners for HR21-24. They can just then record OTA as well.

Also, AM21 recordings are not encrypted, so they are playable if using an external drive and get a replacement DVR. Recordings of satellite, even locals, are tied to the receiver.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> I've not found the upcoming recordings listing on DISH DVRs to be particularly unreliable and I'm told that the TiVo DVRs do a good job at communicating what is supposed to happen.
> 
> To Do seems pretty self explanatory and if the feature doesn't do what its name suggests, the feature is broken. Perhaps not as broken as CIG used to be, but broken nonetheless.


When You do not know how to properly interpret someone's post you shouldn't try at all because you completely failed and misquoted and misstated everything I said and misdirect people into bad assumptions.

What you quoted was me saying to do lists mean nothing on any platform really because they all get rechecked moments before the hour or half hour what have you to verify guide data hasn't changed and it needs to add or cancel a previously scheduled recording. All DVRs do this. If they didn't they'd all be worthless.

And that's my point about to do lists being annoying because half the time people know something is going to change and try to do it manually instead of letting the DVR Handel it.

Wish lists and arsl keyword recordings are different.

Oh and TiVo had the worlds worst to do list for wish lists on the planet lays unused them and I haven't heard from anyone they are better but I would imagine they should be. Which is the closest equivalent for a keyword arsl from directv that some people get worried about because of how it populates the to do list.

I don't even know if dish can do a Boolean style arsl.

None of this means anything is broken or doesn't work right. It all does. People just don't always understand how it works or think it should work differently. That's two different things.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> One thing on the AM21, while it adds OTA recording capability, it does not add tuners. If you put an AM21 on a Genie, you still have 5 total tuners, 2 tuners for HR21-24. They can just then record OTA as well.
> 
> Also, AM21 recordings are not encrypted, so they are playable if using an external drive and get a replacement DVR. Recordings of satellite, even locals, are tied to the receiver.


Dish actually adds tuners don't they? Even for a hooper?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

harsh said:


> This feature is limited to OTA channels that DIRECTV provides guide data for. Business decisions that artificially restrict the utility of a device should not go unmentioned.





inkahauts said:


> Prove its a business decision and not something more logical like a massive data basing issue.


It's just a coincidence that the last new OTA channel added to the database happens to be the last one with a TMS ID below 65535 (0xffff)...


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> When You do not know how to properly interpret someone's post you shouldn't try at all because you completely failed and misquoted and misstated everything I said and misdirect people into bad assumptions.
> 
> What you quoted was me saying to do lists mean nothing on any platform really because they all get rechecked moments before the hour or half hour what have you to verify guide data hasn't changed and it needs to add or cancel a previously scheduled recording. All DVRs do this. If they didn't they'd all be worthless.
> 
> ...


OH and Tivo s To do list, is by far a better operating system than Directv's by far.

So not sure where your getting your info from.

But I've yet to find anything that Directv's receivers are better at anything over my Tivos.

HR to do list, tell you they are recording 15 episodes of something, then in fact it only does 2.
By far the most inaccurate To do list out of Cisco, Dish, Tivo .
But don't take my word for it, try some other services and you'll see.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Dish actually adds tuners don't they? Even for a hooper?


Yes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Prove its a business decision and not something more logical like a massive data basing issue.


We know that in the early days of the Genie family, one could freely tune OTA stations without having to lie to the receiver about what it was seeing. Whether DIRECTV couldn't sustain it functionally or to meet self-imposed "usability" requirements, they have made a business decision to remove the functionality that once existed (and IIRC, the H20 still manages today).


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> When You do not know how to properly interpret someone's post you shouldn't try at all because you completely failed and misquoted and misstated everything I said and misdirect people into bad assumptions.
> 
> What you quoted was me saying to do lists mean nothing on any platform really because they all get rechecked moments before the hour or half hour what have you to verify guide data hasn't changed and it needs to add or cancel a previously scheduled recording. All DVRs do this. If they didn't they'd all be worthless.
> 
> ...


A To Do list that doesn't show what will be recorded and what will be skipped is pretty broken, IMO. On the Dish system it was extremely reliable, there was no need to hope something that wasn't show to be scheduled to be recorded would be picked up at the last minute: if it showed it was going to be recorded, it was; if it was shown as being skipped, it showed why, all on one nice page.

An example of what I hate about the Genie To Do list: I reported that Scorpion was not on the To Do list, even though it is there in the series manager. I was told to ignore the To Do list, it would pick it up anyway. So I did that for last night's episode.

Well, it didn't record Scorpion last night, even though it was a new episode. I had 3 free tuners at the time. And it also doesn't show up in the history list as skipped and for what reason. It's as if the series is not in the series manager, even though it is.

Dish's To Do list works, and it is reliable, and people take for granted that it works. The To Do list for Genie apparently does not work, and the answer is "ignore it." I did, and I missed a show. I used the To Do list on the Dish receivers all the time and it was extremely useful.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Well said. 
And described exactly.


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## tigerarmy247 (Sep 15, 2014)

Related to the downloading to a external device question. I don't think that the Dish removes it from the Hopper when you DL to a device. I'll have to double check but I'm relatively certain it stays in both places.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

tigerarmy247 said:


> Related to the downloading to a external device question. I don't think that the Dish removes it from the Hopper when you DL to a device. I'll have to double check but I'm relatively certain it stays in both places.


I haven't done it in a long time, but I think shows from channels like HBO do get removed or at least flagged and not useable on both the external device until some event happens, like 'returning' it to the Hopper. I think it works that way for 'premium' channel content.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

External hard drives are for archiving programs, transferred from the Hopper to the external hard drive. All recordings including Premiums are playable from a drop down Hopper menu. They can be transferred back, but that is a waste of time since they are playable with all trick play features directly from the EHD. Dish, DirecTV and cable operators are prohibited by DRM from copying HD recordings to another device, hence the "transfer" feature.

The "To Do" list on the Hopper can show just shows that will record, or it can be selected to show recordings that will be skipped. You can unskip or skip and edit timers from the list. The list can also be scrolled back to se a history of recording.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Two PTAT questions:

There was a reply that said the PTAT just records all the major networks every night. Then there was another one that (as I read it) said I could specify the networks and days. Which one is right? And can I specify the TIME on each day for each network?

Am I correct in my understanding that the PTAT recordings can only be saved for 8 DAYS? 'Cause that ain't gonna fly. My wife is a month behind on some shows.

Now I've gotta go find out what a "slingbox" is 'cause I don't understand why I'd want TWO hoppers (one with slingbox)...

Does Dish have an equivalent to the AM21 so I can record OTA when on the road?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

You can specify days and networks with the Hopper, don't think you can specify specific hours though.

PTAT will save shows automatically for up to 8 days without you doing anything however if you want a specific show saved, you can tell it to save it and it won't go away until you delete it, for that matter it'll ask you if you want to save that show all the time.

Sling allows you to access your receiver on such things as an ipad, cell phone or computer. So you can watch live tv or anything you have recorded. Your Hopper must be connected to HSI of course for this to work.

You can buy a OTA tuner that hooks up to the Hopper which adds an additional tuner to the box. I think they cost in the 30 to 40 buck range last I knew.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> We know that in the early days of the Genie family, one could freely tune OTA stations without having to lie to the receiver about what it was seeing. Whether DIRECTV couldn't sustain it functionally or to meet self-imposed "usability" requirements, they have made a business decision to remove the functionality that once existed (and IIRC, the H20 still manages today).


At some point they probably said, ok can we keep adding more stations, or do we need to stop so we don't overload and slow down our databasing system? and if we do that, what else do we have to do to make that happen? Killing scanning for ota was the thing they needed to do since they no longer where going to have the guide data to support it...

That's not a business decision, its a technical one....

And what the h20 has to deal with is nothing compared to a genie or any other dvr. nothing....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> A To Do list that doesn't show what will be recorded and what will be skipped is pretty broken, IMO. On the Dish system it was extremely reliable, there was no need to hope something that wasn't show to be scheduled to be recorded would be picked up at the last minute: if it showed it was going to be recorded, it was; if it was shown as being skipped, it showed why, all on one nice page.
> 
> An example of what I hate about the Genie To Do list: I reported that Scorpion was not on the To Do list, even though it is there in the series manager. I was told to ignore the To Do list, it would pick it up anyway. So I did that for last night's episode.
> 
> ...


That's not a broken to do list to me, that's a broken system IMHO. Flush all the guide data maybe its corrupt. Do you have the latest software? Genie recommends on or off? Something else is going on there. Usually bad guide data gets fixed, but since yours didn't.....

I don't have that issue with the to do list ever. (granted i check it not to often, I use the GUIDE as I think everyone should, but i never miss recordings. Its been rock solid for me on that front for years.) Its the ARSLs that don't populate, and people saying, hey they know that something is changing when its on and it hasn't updated the guide system yet that is what I'm getting at. Its usually rock solid except for bad guide data and I just don't ever have issues with the to do list matching up with series manager in saying what series are set to be recorded.

And it shouldn't show what will be skipped if its set to record another time in the future do to conflicts etc IMHO....

ARSLs that are wide in scope cause a to do list to be filled with all kinds of things that will and wont be recorded that is easy to see...

Basically, I don't see the to do list being broke at all. Guide data errors are the thing people complain about the most generally, and they get fixed on their own. I want better guide data in the first place myself, i think that's the real issue IMHO. But you missing that show was something more than to do list issues imho.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The H20 no longer scans either. One of its last updates removed that capability. It has been just over a year now since its most recent update. I expect at least one more update to come next year, after D14 goes operational, to allow tuning HD channels from 99(ca).

I'm highly skeptical of this "it would slow down and overload our databasing system" argument. It doesn't affect anything to have channels that show "local programming" or whatever channels without guide data show. Given Directv's (and every other provider's) battles with local stations, making improvements in OTA support would only seem prudent. Making OTA actively worse as they did seems like a very poor business decision if these local station battles continue to get worse.

And yes, I would characterize this a "business" decision, because while it may be at its root a technical issue based on station IDs exceeding 0xffff, it is a business decision not to invest the engineering effort required to correct that technical issue. There may not be a lot of Directv customers who use OTA, and many would not have the option, but the interest will only grow if there are more and longer lasting local station disputes in the future.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Dish also eliminates the need to watch these channels...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dishcouponcodes said:


> Hi everyone! I am writing to talk about the Wireless Joey from Dish. DISH has created an app that is available on the Sony PS4 and in the App store. First, you connect the Wireless Joey to your main DISH Receiver with HOPPER. This is ususally next to your main television but with the Joeys, it can be anywhere. The Joey creates it's own private wireless network. Then you download the DISH app to your smart tv. Launch the app and you have all of your programming through the app. DISH will send you a separate remote to use with the Joey.
> 
> The Joey eliminates the need to have another "cable box" sitting by the tv. This is especially nice for televisions that hang on the wall or where shelf space is limited. Not to mention that it looks much better too. DISH is giving $50 cash back with qualified new customer accounts as well as the Free Hoppper and Joeys.


Yeah just like directv offeres wireless clients and can connect directly to certain tvs without a box as well. And their clients are tiny. Thanks for letting us know dish has something kinda similar.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Lots of talk and debating. I had the Hopper with the OTA module until March of this year. I just got a Genie with AM21 installed. So I've experienced both systems this year.

PTAT - Basically, this comes in two varieties. The first is the automatic recording of all PT shows on the "big 4" networks each evening for 3 hours using just 1 tuner. You can turn this feature off at any time. It automatically saves content for 8 days, but you can select shows and have them saved indefinitely. The second variety is that anytime you record more than one program on the "big 4" in your area, it still only uses 1 tuner. This is only true for the "big 4" networks.

The OTA adapter on the Hopper is a single tuner. The AM21 is a dual-tuner.

DirecTV's HD picture quality is significantly better than Dish's at this point. It is slightly inferior to my local telephone company's fiber offerings, but they have a lot fewer channels for about the same price.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

At this point (about 3 months with Directv, which reminds me, need to check the date so I don't start paying for the movie premiums they threw in as part of my coming back to DTV package; a few years with Dish before the recent switch to DTV, Directv from 1995 to 2009 before that) I'm starting to form some opinions on the differences between Dish and Directv (just my opinions.)

1. Pricing - everyone talks about which service is more expensive. My take, for about the same programming, the cost is about the same.
2. PQ - Directv's HD picture quality is sharper. I had both together for a few days, so I could tune into the same channels and look side by side. You could see the difference. That said, Dish's HD was fine (looking on a 1080p 54" Panny plasma) and I'm very picky (I do my own TV color calibrations with my own light meters and software) and if they weren't side by side I'd be hard pressed to see the difference. I prefer Dish's SD picture to DTV's SD.
3. Programming: again pretty much a wash, though DTV seems to lead in terms of being ahead of Dish in getting channels in HD (usually "minor" channels like TVLand HD.) However, programming is why I switched: I wanted Sunday Ticket and DTV is the only way to get it.
4. Hardware: I was initially impressed by the Genie, but the more time I spend with it, the more "unfinished" and crude it feels compared to Dish's DVRs. Things like the To Do list, which many experts here say you should ignore, which is much less functional in many ways to the Dish To Do list, sound dropping out regularly when switching from recordings to live shows, FFing on a live show that was paused, past the end often causes the picture to sit frozen, the inability to set the guide to more than 1.5 hours wide and people talking about other issues being a result of not pushing Genie past it's hardware capabilities, and just a host of other "little" GUI issues that you probably don't notice or care about unless you got used to how it could be on the Dish system - overall, the Genie just feels to me much less elegant and powerful compared to the Dish DVR system.

Overall, the differences,* to me*, are minor enough that I can live with them, and Sunday Ticket is enough to have me stick with Directv. If not for Sunday Ticket, though, I'd go back to Dish due to the hardware/system sotfware.

FWIW


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Fudpucker, I'd agree with you on all points with only a minor quibble.

The HD PQ between the two just isn't enough these days for me to even make it part of the decision tree to make a choice between the services. I would give an overall very slight edge to D*.

I had both an HR44 and a HWS on my 73" Mitsi DLP set for quite a few months and switching back and forth hardly noticed the difference.

But as you noted, the HWS (or even the Hopper w/o Sling) just has a better GUI. Dish took the time to completely revamp what a satellite GUI should look like and work. DirecTV took the other path, essentially just enhancing the old text UI with some GUI features and then didn't even take advantage of that very much.

A couple of other things that make the Hoppers better.
1. Backup of timers and such to the remote which allows for quick restore of them if you have to swap boxes somewhere along the line. That is just superbly done automatically.

2. EHD as an archive device tied to the account and not to a specific receiver. To me that should have been a no-brainer for Direct to do and I've often wondered why they haven't.

Direct does have an edge in HD premiums for the big 4 movie channels, which is very nice. And the search with D* is just excellent even if the interface is crude.

When it comes to SD, D*'s is just nearly unwatchable while E*'s is good enough to enjoy on most SD channels.

One of these days D* will get around to actually taking advantage of the benefits of a better GUI, but they sure don't seem in a rush to do so.


Sent from my Surface with Windows 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HarleyD said:


> Dish also eliminates the need to watch these channels...


With the possible exception of Boomerang, the channels themselves pretty much eliminated their "need".


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

harsh said:


> With the possible exception of Boomerang, the channels themselves pretty much eliminated their "need".


As with everything related to channels, one man's "who cares?" is another man's "must have." For us, TCM is a must have - we record a lot of film noir movies from there for later viewing, many of which are not available on Netflix. We also watch CNN on a semi-regular basis.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Yeah just like directv offeres wireless clients and can connect directly to certain tvs without a box as well. And their clients are tiny. Thanks for letting us know dish has something kinda similar.


I must note that dishcouponcodes was wrong about the Playstation version. The Virtual Joey application runs on the PS3, not the PS4.

Like DIRECTV, DISH charges a monthly "Joey outlet fee" to use the third party tool.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> When it comes to SD, D*'s is just nearly unwatchable while E*'s is good enough to enjoy on most SD channels.
> 
> Sent from my Surface with Windows 8 Pro using Tapatalk


Is that statement accurate for both eastern and western arc's or just eastern? IIRC EA was better because the SD used MPEG4 vs. WA which is still MPEG2 and is more bandwidth constrained then EA.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RAD said:


> Is that statement accurate for both eastern and western arc's or just eastern? IIRC EA was better because the SD used MPEG4 vs. WA which is still MPEG2 and is more bandwidth constrained then EA.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


Fair question. I've been on EA for so long I can't actually remember what it was like back then.

Hopefully someone will come along that is on the WA to comment.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> As with everything related to channels, one man's "who cares?" is another man's "must have." For us, TCM is a must have - we record a lot of film noir movies from there for later viewing, many of which are not available on Netflix. We also watch CNN on a semi-regular basis.


TCM is the only one I miss, but I actually don't figure this will last all that long.

Outside of CNN/HLN, the others are not watched here at all. And I get enough of CNN on my car radio to tide me over.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> With the possible exception of Boomerang, the channels themselves pretty much eliminated their "need".


Who are you kidding???? TruTV is a MUST for me along with CN for my son. don't find excuses to justify Dish Network short comings&#8230;.

I know TONS of folks that MUST have TCM&#8230;.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

HarleyD said:


> Dish also eliminates the need to watch these channels...


No they didn't the content owners did
Don't get it twisted with misinformation
Makes it sound like a fanboy


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

This is just ridiculous we all know this happens with every provider, everybody in this forum should know this

I know Dish have a history of disputes and some channels were permanently removed

Directv have disputes as well and either removed temporarily or last minute agreements

Bottom line content owners are the brunt of all these disputes and price hikes.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

My picture quality test is actually a simple one: the graphics ESPN puts between replays and live TV. On Dish, this degrades into a pixelated mess so bad that I actually averted my eyes - it messes up my ability to focus on the screen. I also look for color depth. Professional uniforms are bright colors to look good on TV. On Dish, they looked washed out to me. When I was watching through fiber, ESPN was buttery smooth - both animations and color depth. DirecTV has an almost perfect animation transition, and their colors are "good" but not "great." Good enough for me, as I'm getting a lot more channels than I had before that I actually care about and couldn't even pay for with my local provider. Dish LiL was, for me, a complete waste of time - the picture was so bad I refused to watch it and had to use an OTA tuner. With DirecTV, I'm using my tuner for out-of-market stations.

Yes, Dish's HD is "good enough." But DirecTV has a distinct edge here that I, at least, can appreciate and enjoy.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Well gang, in the slightly less than 2 months since I started this topic, things have been quiet... Directv instructed me, at that time, to "call back" on or after 12/4 since they would then be able to provide specifics on the discounts that would be available going forward...

So, I did... And reached "Monty", who after an extended conversation determined that a grand total of $5 per month was available as a discount, making the bill increase by over 20%. After asserting strongly that "there were no other discounts available", Monty asked if I'd like him to make the changes, and I replied that I'd be investigating other options at this time. At which point, LOW AND BEHOLD, Monty found that there was ANOTHER department that COULD in fact provide other discounts. Upon being switched to the extra-magical discount department, my account was checked and I was told that the ONLY way she could determine what discounts would be available WOULD BE FOR ME TO CONTACT THEM ON EXACTLY JANUARY 3rd. Not the 2nd, not the 4th because then the new billing cycle would start and we'd get hit with a huge increase for at least a month, but on EXACTLY January 3rd... 

So, unless someone here has a contact at Directv where I can get reliable, truthful information without the large helping of bovine excrement I got this morning, it appears my next phone call, which will happen LONG BEFORE January 3rd, should be to Dish to see if they're any more credible than the Directv people.

Anybody?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

At some point one have to pay or play the switching game...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The closest thing we have to a secret number etc is the access card department, and they are the wrong group.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

peds48 said:


> At some point one have to pay or play the switching game...


Exactly. It amazes me how some people think they are entitled to more discounts after their current discounts expire.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

It amazes me that some have the patience to switch back and forth every two years to get new customer discounts, but they do.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> It amazes me that some have the patience to switch back and forth every two years to get new customer discounts, but they do.


And just for this alone, I would pay "premium"


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> It amazes me that some have the patience to switch back and forth every two years to get new customer discounts, but they do.


When I switched from DirecTV to Dish, I saved about $500. When I came back, I saved $500. Saving $250/year is a lot of money for many people. Maybe you have $250 to burn; I don't.

That said, I'm very happy to be back with DirecTV now that their DVR seems to work properly (HR44 here.) I never disliked their service, just their hardware.

Just don't ask me what I'll do when my commitment runs out. I dropped my crystal ball the other day and haven't gotten a replacement yet. In typical fashion, I cancelled my monthly protection plan on it shortly before the accident.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

sregener said:


> When I switched from DirecTV to Dish, I saved about $500. When I came back, I saved $500. Saving $250/year is a lot of money for many people. Maybe you have $250 to burn; I don't.
> 
> That said, I'm very happy to be back with DirecTV now that their DVR seems to work properly (HR44 here.) I never disliked their service, just their hardware.
> 
> Just don't ask me what I'll do when my commitment runs out. I dropped my crystal ball the other day and haven't gotten a replacement yet. In typical fashion, I cancelled my monthly protection plan on it shortly before the accident.


Kind of like having your cake and eating it too. You want the horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The trouble it would cause in the household isn't worth it, not to mention dealing with installers.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Kind of like having your cake and eating it too. You want the horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them.


You say that as if it is a bad thing. It very much isn't.

D* and E* have rooms full of accountants to ensure that they get the best deal from you for them. I have only me to ensure the same thing. If that means calling for discounts or switching then so be it. I'm the sole arbiter of what is in my financial best interest. And since the difference in channels I watch isn't really different between the two services, it is just not a big deal. A few minutes on the phone now and then, and if a switch is involved, another installer visit.

No big whoop!!


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

lparsons21 said:


> You say that as if it is a bad thing. It very much isn't.
> 
> D* and E* have rooms full of accountants to ensure that they get the best deal from you for them. I have only me to ensure the same thing. If that means calling for discounts or switching then so be it. I'm the sole arbiter of what is in my financial best interest. And since the difference in channels I watch isn't really different between the two services, it is just not a big deal. A few minutes on the phone now and then, and if a switch is involved, another installer visit.
> 
> No big whoop!!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> You say that as if it is a bad thing. It very much isn't.
> 
> D* and E* have rooms full of accountants to ensure that they get the best deal from you for them. I have only me to ensure the same thing. If that means calling for discounts or switching then so be it. I'm the sole arbiter of what is in my financial best interest. And since the difference in channels I watch isn't really different between the two services, it is just not a big deal. A few minutes on the phone now and then, and if a switch is involved, another installer visit.
> 
> No big whoop!!


And those same accountants apply the cost of dealing with the discount mongers on to the customers to get the best deal from you for them.


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

Have a blast paying for our discounts then. Your loyalty is our gain. Go team!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> It amazes me that some have the patience to switch back and forth every two years to get new customer discounts, but they do.


What sort of "patience" does it take? Once every two years a guy would come over to install, and the second visit for any provider would be really quick since everything would be in place and it be a matter of hooking up receivers and verifying it all works.

If you know you're going to switch around the time your commitment runs out you can make sure to catch up on watching any old recordings. The only thing that would hold someone to a provider would be if you have a ton of TVs and can't get them all covered under the 'free equipment' offers.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> What sort of "patience" does it take? Once every two years a guy would come over to install, and the second visit for any provider would be really quick since everything would be in place and it be a matter of hooking up receivers and verifying it all works.
> 
> If you know you're going to switch around the time your commitment runs out you can make sure to catch up on watching any old recordings. The only thing that would hold someone to a provider would be if you have a ton of TVs and can't get them all covered under the 'free equipment' offers.


It took three days and three installers to get my receivers connected to the Internet as part of my upgrade to supported whole home. Only the third installer, when he said they would have to come back another day (all three times, the part they needed was "at the warehouse" was willing to try my suggestions, and Directv wouldn't just send me the equipment to do it myself. I don't want to go through something like that again.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

fireponcoal said:


> Have a blast paying for our discounts then. Your loyalty is our gain. Go team!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Someone has to do it...

But in all honesty, I don't blame the customers for this as the providers brought it on themselves&#8230;.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

peds48 said:


> At some point one have to pay or play the switching game...


Exactly. It amazes me how some people think they are entitled to more discounts after their current discounts expire.

Well, you missed the point, but to answer your comment - DAMN STRAIGHT......... And I will. Directv sure as h*ll hasn't done ANYTHING to create loyalty, and the wasted conversations 2 months ago and today are a perfect example. And yeah, I ABSOLUTELY figure if these people have discounts I'm sure a h*ll going to demand the same ones any other customer would get.

And since the previous owners here had Dish and all the stuff is in place, I'll switch in an INSTANT if it saves me a considerable amount. So you have mnoney to burn and don't "believe YOU'RE entitled to any discounts" GREAT. Me, I'll go where I get the best deal...


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dkperez said:


> Directv sure as h*ll hasn't done ANYTHING to create loyalty,


Not sure what constitutes as "loyalty". If by that you mean discounted programming, they gave it to you for two years, or you may see free equipment, you got it when you became a customer. But if what you want is free or discounted service ad infinitum, well DIRECTV® has a program just for you and is called Dish Network every two years!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

dkperez said:


> Exactly. It amazes me how some people think they are entitled to more discounts after their current discounts expire.
> 
> Well, you missed the point, but to answer your comment - DAMN STRAIGHT......... And I will. Directv sure as h*ll hasn't done ANYTHING to create loyalty, and the wasted conversations 2 months ago and today are a perfect example. And yeah, I ABSOLUTELY figure if these people have discounts I'm sure a h*ll going to demand the same ones any other customer would get.
> 
> And since the previous owners here had Dish and all the stuff is in place, I'll switch in an INSTANT if it saves me a considerable amount. So you have mnoney to burn and don't "believe YOU'RE entitled to any discounts" GREAT. Me, I'll go where I get the best deal...


The only one missing the point is you. A discount is not a "entitlement". A discount is a "offering" of products or services at low or reduced prices. I've been a DirecTV customer for 19+ years. They "earned" my loyalty by providing me with the service I "pay" for and the equipment needed to receive that service. They also "earned" my loyalty by resolving the few issues that accrued to my satisfaction. People like you want the horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them and think of yourselves as ill used if those horns and whistles aren't given to you at a discount for a unlimited amount of time.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> And just for this alone, I would pay "premium"


Say that when you actually pay.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

MysteryMan said:


> People like you want the horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them and think of yourselves as ill used if those horns and whistles aren't given to you at a discount for a unlimited amount of time.


I don't consider myself ill-used. The game is the game. You either pay to play or you don't.

What is clear is that the providers are making money off the promotional deals, or they wouldn't offer them. They're just making boatloads more off of people who never switch.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Say that when you actually pay.


Well, I do pay albeit a discounted rate one that I am entitled to as part of my benefit package. But I have being paying full price for my internet $70.00 every month for a 100/35 package. I could def play this game by calling and demand a discount and/or switch to FiOS for their introductory $49.99 plan, but I choose NOT to. I pay "premium" for the benefit of not being bother to have to switch every one or two years.

And BTW, I was a FULL paying DIRECTV® customer for 6 straight years without any discounts. So yes, I have paid FULL DIRECTV® bills for many years in a row!!!!!


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

People bragging they do or have paid full price is LOL funny.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

What is funny is folks try to eat more than they can chew and expecting someone else to pay for the excess. If I can’t afford the Premier package, I just don’t subscribe to it. I would not expect to subscribe to it and expect DIRECTV® to give it to me for free. For those that say that their bill is too high, start by trimming the fat instead of feeling entitled to something they don’t


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

You'll be leaving DTV soon so you can pay full price.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

I’ll be eating DIRECTV® branded turkey for at least two more years… And when the times comes, I already have something lined up, I could leave tomorrow if I wanted, I just to want to move out of state just yet.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> I'll be eating DIRECTV® branded turkey for at least two more years&#8230; And when the times comes, I already have something lined up, I could leave tomorrow if I wanted, I just to want to move out of state just yet.


At least until AT&T creates a sour enough teat.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

242424 said:


> You'll be leaving DTV soon so you can pay full price.


LMAO, no he'll be dropping directv when he has to pay full price.!

It's about getting more for your money, not always what you have to settle for because of money.

You go where and with your hard earned dollars will give you more. 
DIRECTV like it or not is not the best choice always.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> At least until AT&T creates a sour enough teat.


NEVER!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> LMAO, no he'll be dropping directv when he has to pay full price.!
> 
> It's about getting more for your money, not always what you have to settle for because of money.
> 
> ...


Been with DIRECTV® for over 13+ years! Not planning to go anywhere. While is true is about getting your moneys worth, it does not necessarily means feeling entitled to what you think you deserve as a patron.

You are right, you go where you hard earn money will give you more, but again it does not necessarily means feeling entitled to what you think you deserve as a patron, and for this, DIRECTV® has a plan for those folks, is called the go to Dish Network program, where you move back and forth every two years. I but decided not to used this program even tho I may have to pay premium

DIRECTV® may be not be the best choice for you, it is for me


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

peds48 said:


> While is true is about getting your moneys worth, it does not necessarily means feeling entitled to what you think you deserve as a patron.


A good economics teacher will tell you some facts about exchanges. In a free market, exchanges only happen when both sides believe they come out ahead. Thus, wherever there is an exchange, both the buyer and the seller are giving up something they value less than what they're getting. (Bad economics teachers will tell you exchanges happen when the values are equal, but they never explain why people would bother with the trouble of making exchanges that gain them nothing.) It is the job of the buyer to try to get as much as they can for as little cost. It is the job of the seller to get as much money for as little product as possible. Lamenting the fact that DirecTV wants all your money or that customers want the barn for free ignores this basic fact: both are doing exactly what they should be.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> LMAO, no he'll be dropping directv when he has to pay full price.!
> 
> It's about getting more for your money, not always what you have to settle for because of money.
> 
> ...


DISH, Comcast, Time Warner, and even your beloved Blue Ridge aren't always the best choice either. Again, it's a matter of personal preference (One man's candy can be another man's poison). There is no one size fits all when it comes to service providers.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

harsh said:


> At least until AT&T creates a sour enough teat.


Maybe, maybe not. But with the recent and on going carriage disputes DISH Network's udders have a complete set of sour teats.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> DISH, Comcast, Time Warner, and even your beloved Blue Ridge aren't always the best choice either. Again, it's a matter of personal preference (One man's candy can be another man's poison). There is no one size fits all when it comes to service providers.


No one said they were, but no reason people have to settle for directv and pay full price just because you and a few others say so.
Exactly the point people can choose how they want to spend their money without say so from Peds and yourself.

And if that means going elsewhere or asking and receiving a large discount from directv it really doesn't make it any of fan boys business. 
Directv runs the business not Peds and MysteryMan.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Maybe, maybe not. But with the recent and on going carriage disputes DISH Network's udders have a complete set of sour teats.


I dunno about that! 

Turner stuff off for a fair bit of time, but no one actually seemed to notice or care. CBS O&O off for a few hours. Hardly the stuff of horror stories. Frankly going forward I expect more of these for all carriers as the content providers struggle to maintain viewers and profits in a slowly dying marketspace.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

damondlt said:


> No one said they were, but no reason people have to settle for directv and pay full price just because you and a few others say so.
> *Exactly the point people can choose how they want to spend their money without say so from Peds and yourself.*
> 
> And if that means going elsewhere or asking and receiving a large discount from directv it really doesn't make it any of fan boys business.
> *Directv runs the business not Peds and MysteryMan.*


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> No one said they were, but no reason people have to settle for directv and pay full price just because you and a few others say so.
> Exactly the point people can choose how they want to spend their money without say so from Peds and yourself.
> 
> And if that means going elsewhere or asking and receiving a large discount from directv it really doesn't make it any of fan boys business.
> Directv runs the business not Peds and MysteryMan.


Watch my fingers. I'm going to type slow. I never posted stating how people should spend their money. What I did state was that it amazes me how some people think they are "entitled" to more discounts after their current discounts expire. Discounts are a "offering", not a "entitlement". I also stated there are people who want horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them. I find nothing wrong with service providers "offering" discounts and customers taking advantage of them. Just don't think of those discounts as entitlements.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> Watch my fingers. I'm going to type slow. I never posted stating how people should spend their money. What I did state was that it amazes me how some people think they are "entitled" to more discounts after their current discounts expire. Discounts are a "offering", not a "entitlement". I also stated there are people who want horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them. I find nothing wrong with service providers "offering" discounts and customers taking advantage of them. Just don't think of those discounts as entitlements.











Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> What I did state was that it amazes me how some people think they are "entitled" to more discounts after their current discounts expire. Discounts are a "offering", not a "entitlement". I also stated there are people who want horns and whistles but don't want to pay for them. I find nothing wrong with service providers "offering" discounts and customers taking advantage of them. Just don't think of those discounts as entitlements.


And again who are you???


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> And again who are you???


I'm the guy who corrects you when you use fallacy with my statements. :sure:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> I'm the guy who corrects you when you use fallacy with my statements. :sure:


Again?? who put you in charge of entitlements?
You can pay full price. No one is stopping you or judging you.
So maybe you should give the same respect to the guy who wants NFL ST for free.

For all you know he may have spent Triple what you have in the past.

I haven't had A Directv bill under $175 a month in over 2 years.
I should have been entitled to a Proper functioning system.
That didn't happen for me , so I left!, as did many others.

That doesn't mean I sit there and tell everyone Directv sucks and you should spend your money elsewhere.
So get off your High horse, Instead of worrying about members views toward their monthly bills and credits, Maybe you guys with your 2,000 and 10,000 plus more post than me in far less time as a member you can go watch Directv and dont worry about what the rest of us do with our money and Provider.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> Again?? who put you in charge of entitlements?
> You can pay full price. No one is stopping you or judging you.
> So maybe you should give the same respect to the guy who wants NFL ST for free.
> 
> ...


Discount: To sell or "offer" for sale at a reduced price. "Offering" products or services at low or reduced prices. Sold or "offered" for sale at low or reduced price......notice how "entitlement" is never used to define discount? :sure: I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me but use fact, not fallacy when stating what I posted. We are all aware of your bad experience with DirecTV. Stop acting like a woman scorned and get over it. And what the Hell do post counts have to do with anything?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Again?? who put you in charge of entitlements?


And who put you in charge of defending entitlements ? !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> I should have been entitled to a Proper functioning system.
> That didn't happen for me , so I left!, as did many others.


I will give you that. You are entitled to a working system or otherwise been compensated if your is not. But this is not the same as feeling that you deserve or you are entitled to a discount just "because"


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I agree with peds48. DirecTV customers are entitled to receive programming they are "paying" for and working equipment needed to receive that programming. That said, anyone thinking they are entitled to more should read the DirecTV Customer Agreement, DirecTV Terms and Conditions, and the DirecTV Equipment Lease Agreement.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Lots of bandying the word 'entitlement' in this thread. While I do ask for discounts I do not feel entitled to them. D* and E* have shown over the years that while they may not officially have discounts of one sort or another along the way, they are willing to give them oft times, to those that ask for them. 

My local car dealers are the same. They don't officially haggle over the price, but they sure actually are willing and able to do it.

I'm sure those that are on the anti-discount side just pay full sticker price for their car too. I mean, it is only right after all! 

edit: Think of it as unadvertised 'specials'!!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

There is nothing wrong by calling and asking "hey, do you have any discounts available for me at the moment?" why is not right after getting a " no" to that question is demanding one by tthreatening to cancel....


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> There is nothing wrong by calling and asking "hey, do you have any discounts available for me at the moment?" why is not right after getting a " no" to that question is demanding one by tthreatening to cancel....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


It's not a threat when it really happends.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

See you give people the impression we should give a crap about hurting the feelings of directv.
Most people don;t care about their TV providers feelings to defend them against, as you call threats.
Without the customer Directv would have nothing.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

peds48 said:


> There is nothing wrong by calling and asking "hey, do you have any discounts available for me at the moment?" why is not right after getting a " no" to that question is demanding one by tthreatening to cancel....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


I never do that as a threat. If I were to call and not get a discount I thought I should get and didn't, I might cancel. There wouldn't be any threat of it since in fact, I would and have cancelled. It is all about the benjamins that are mine. Every time over the years that I said 'cancel' to a rep or the automated voice crap, I did in fact cancel. Because at that point, there is nothing they can do that will keep me from doing it.

That said, I fully agree with you. To use the 'cancel' card as a threat is wrong.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

I was at the Chevy dealer trying to get the best deal I could, I knew I could get Ford for less but I didn't feel it was right to tell him that so I just paid more for the Chevy.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Did the same thing in February when I got my new baby Buick (Verano). Left over 2013 equipped the way I wanted. He gave me a price that was a bunch of numbers on an official looking page, I gave him a price on a sticky note. We met somewhat less than what he wanted and somewhat more than what I wanted. In the end, both of us were smiling which is the sure sign of a good deal.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> That said, I fully agree with you. To use the 'cancel' card as a threat is wrong.


WTF? In what possible way could it be 'wrong' to threaten to cancel as a way to try to get a better deal?

You're finding out how much they value your business. Just like a provider who raises your rate finds out how much you value their service by whether you cancel immediately, call and complain but stick around without a discount, call and complain but stick around only because of a discount, or quietly pay the higher rate.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

If you intend to actually cancel if they don't pony up a discount, then I'd probably be ok with it. But to call and threaten to cancel only to get a discount isn't at all.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> If you intend to actually cancel if they don't pony up a discount, then I'd probably be ok with it. But to call and threaten to cancel only to get a discount isn't at all.


Agree,


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

I hope you have as big of a problem with Directv when they threaten to walk away from a provider by not just rolling over for the asking price.

A customer is well within his right to threaten to cancel and Directv has every right to say "no". It's not an entitlement, it is negotiating. This is an arms length business transaction, nothing more and nothing less.

As I've told you before, I hope you pay asking price for every vehicle you purchase. Anything short is hypocritical.



peds48 said:


> There is nothing wrong by calling and asking "hey, do you have any discounts available for me at the moment?" why is not right after getting a " no" to that question is demanding one by tthreatening to cancel....
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Everyone has their own strategies for dealing with DIRECTV. As long as DIRECTV is giving discounts, then I think you should ask. 

My 'issue' with some is when they threaten to cancel and the CSR's response is "OK, I'd be more than happy to help you close your account."

Should that happen, don't come back here complaining that you didn't get a deal but your service is being cancelled.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> If you intend to actually cancel if they don't pony up a discount, then I'd probably be ok with it. But to call and threaten to cancel only to get a discount isn't at all.


Why? You say it is wrong but have no reasoning behind your statement. Do you think it is somehow immoral to use cancellation as a negotiation tactic with a big corporation that has all the power in the relationship? (if you doubt that, send Directv a letter sometime with your updated "terms and conditions" and try to hold them to those the way they will hold you to theirs)

If you provided lawn service for me at $30/month, and I called and said "I want to pay $25/month or I'll take my business elsewhere" you have a choice. You can give in, you can refuse and see if I follow through with my threat, or you can say "I don't want a customer who makes such demands, so I will no longer provide you service". Directv is free to respond the same way when someone calls up and threatens to cancel as a negotiation tactic.

I fully agree with trh that anyone who complains about Directv processing their cancellation when they only meant it as a tactic is a fool.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

trh said:


> Everyone has their own strategies for dealing with DIRECTV. As long as DIRECTV is giving discounts, then I think you should ask.
> 
> My 'issue' with some is when they threaten to cancel and the CSR's response is "OK, I'd be more than happy to help you close your account."
> 
> Should that happen, don't come back here complaining that you didn't get a deal but your service is being cancelled.


Good post trh. One should only negotiate when backed with a position of strength. If you're going to play Poker with DirecTV be prepared to have your bluff called and don't go whining about it when you lose.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

slice1900 said:


> Why? You say it is wrong but have no reasoning behind your statement. Do you think it is somehow immoral to use cancellation as a negotiation tactic with a big corporation that has all the power in the relationship?


Although you'd never get convicted for it in a court of law, it is fraud to threaten to cancel if you actually have no intention of doing so.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I don't know about fraud, but I know we've had people use that tactic then came here complaining that they were cancelled. To me, there are certain situations in life that basically call for negotiation. At a car dealership, it's pretty much expected. The dealer sticker price factors negotiation in. Many times you think you got a deal, but they get what they were hoping for to begin with.

Some have posted in the past that they ask for price breaks at the grocery store, if they don't like the price of the green beans etc. I just won't buy.

Directv negotiates with channels because there is no one else to go to. I've got 3 other similar options in terms of providers that offer the content.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sregener said:


> Although you'd never get convicted for it in a court of law, it is fraud to threaten to cancel if you actually have no intention of doing so.


LMAO !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

trh said:


> Everyone has their own strategies for dealing with DIRECTV. As long as DIRECTV is giving discounts, then I think you should ask.
> 
> My 'issue' with some is when they threaten to cancel and the CSR's response is "OK, I'd be more than happy to help you close your account."
> 
> Should that happen, don't come back here complaining that you didn't get a deal but your service is being cancelled.


Bingo!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> I never do that as a threat. If I were to call and not get a discount *I thought I should get* and didn't, I might cancel. There wouldn't be any threat of it since in fact, I would and have cancelled. It is all about the benjamins that are mine. Every time over the years that I said 'cancel' to a rep or the automated voice crap, I did in fact cancel. Because at that point, there is nothing they can do that will keep me from doing it.
> 
> That said, I fully agree with you. To use the 'cancel' card as a threat is wrong.


This is the definition of "entitlement".


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> *I don&#39;t* know about fraud, but I know* we&#39;ve* had people use that tactic then came here complaining that they were cancelled. To me, there are certain situations in life that basically call for negotiation. At a car dealership, it&#39;s pretty much expected. The dealer sticker price factors negotiation in. Many times you think you got a deal, but they get what they were hoping for to begin with*.
> *
> *
> *
> ...


I see your post edits are doing the same thing mine was.
I stopped using the mobile app and tapatalk all together.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Utter BS!

Here's a deal for you. You can continue to not take discounts, I'll continue to haggle when and where I see fit. How about that??


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Having said all this, one thing that would really irritate me, that happens is you do try to get a discount, they say no and you cancel. A month or so later you get a come back offer better than you originally wanted.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

trh said:


> Everyone has their own strategies for dealing with DIRECTV. As long as DIRECTV is giving discounts, then I think you should ask.
> 
> My 'issue' with some is when they threaten to cancel and the CSR's response is "OK, I'd be more than happy to help you close your account."
> 
> Should that happen, don't come back here complaining that you didn't get a deal but your service is being cancelled.


I agree with this, But there are also a lot of people that will cancel.
But like myself I wouldn't threaten to cancel over a discount unless I truly couldn't afford it , In which case Directv has no sympathy against people who recently go into a financial bind.
They will not let you leave without drilling the knife deeper.
Not just Directv either ,but we are talking about directv.

And just so you guys know what its like to pay an ETF, that is not without its strings.
They delay on return boxes, so you have this equipment laying around for weeks. Finally I called them and said HEY, WTF?
Then on your final bill they still have the Balls even after paying ETF to charge you a Disconnect fee of $15 !rolling
Then after you just called to complain about the money Grab, they have the Balls again to offer you back all your equipment and $50 per month off your bill for a Year. !rolling
And now they have your phone number, and Ive had a phone call from Directv 2 times a week for the past month!! :down:

So you tell me , Does Directv think they are "entitled" to me as a customer??

If they can bug the crap out of me for my money. they by all means everyone else is entitled to bug the crap out of Directv for their discounts!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Having said all this, one thing that would really irritate me, that happens is you do try to get a discount, they say no and you cancel. A month or so later you get a come back offer better than you originally wanted.


A month or so later? Shirley you jest!! 

Last time I cancelled D* I had come back offers before the box showed up to ship the equipment back.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Having said all this, one thing that would really irritate me, that happens is you do try to get a discount, they say no and you cancel. A month or so later you get a come back offer better than you originally wanted.


This is exactly what happens.
Now you all of a sudden can request exact equipment, get Free sports packs, and huge monthly rebates.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

damondlt said:


> This is exactly what happens.
> Now you all of a sudden can request exact equipment, get Free sports packs, and huge monthly rebates.


Try this math.

Sign up as new, get about $35 or so discount plus free STL Max for a year. Cash discount is $420 plus whatever actual value you put on the STL Max.

Now cancel at the end of the year, pay the $240 ETF and resign up from that come back offer and get another $420 = net gain = $180!! Not too shabby.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

peds48 said:


> This is the definition of "entitlement".


Entitled: To furnish with a right or claim to something. A right to benefits specified by law or contract...... Nowhere in the DirecTV Customer Agreement, DirecTV Terms and Conditions, or the DirecTV Equipment Lease Agreement does it state customers are entitled to discounts. Discounts are a "offering", not a entitlement.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> I agree with this, But there are also a lot of people that will cancel.
> But like myself I wouldn't threaten to cancel over a discount unless I truly couldn't afford it , In which case Directv has no sympathy against people who recently go into a financial bind.
> They will not let you leave without drilling the knife deeper.
> Not just Directv either ,but we are talking about directv.
> ...


DirecTV, like every service provider is a business, not a charitable organization. If you truly can't afford your current program package then learn to do without it and tighten your belt. Need I remind you that the only channels one needs are their local channels, news channels, and local government channels. The rest of the channels are a luxury and luxury is always costly.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> DirecTV, like every service provider is a business, not a charitable organization. If you truly can't afford your current program package then learn to do without it and tighten your belt. Need I remind you that the only channels one needs are their local channels, news channels, and local government channels. The rest of the channels are a luxury and luxury is always costly.


Again then let the customer go without strings. Stuff happends, no reason for providers to haunt people for months after they left.

And quite frankly Mystery Man, Have you ever Cancelled Directv service and went through the process?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> Again then let the customer go without strings. Stuff happends, no reason for providers to haunt people for months after they left.
> 
> And quite frankly Mystery Man, Have you ever Cancelled Directv service and went through the process?


To answer your question, no. I'm satisfied with my DirecTV service. As for the things I need and want I can well afford both. Should the day come where I can no longer afford both I'll tighten my belt and do without the things I want and focus on the things I need.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> To answer your question, no. I'm satisfied with my DirecTV service. As for the things I need and want I can well afford both. Should the day come where I can no longer afford both I'll tighten my belt and do without the things I want and focus on the things I need.[bquote]Well said. As I said on another post, some folks want to eat more than the can chew. Or as they say, have the cake avel and eat it too...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

sregener said:


> Although you'd never get convicted for it in a court of law, it is fraud to threaten to cancel if you actually have no intention of doing so.


Not only would you not get convicted, you'd get laughed out of court if you tried such a pathetically weak argument. You may need a new dictionary if you think that constitutes fraud.

The customer relationship with a service provider is 'at will', and can be cancelled at any time for any reason. A "threat to cancel" is something that already exists and is already implied in the at will relationship.

The 'threat to cancel' exists every day for every Directv customer, as every one of them is free to leave at any time - possibly having to pay an ETF per their agreement if they're still in their contract term. Calling and stating something you already have the right to do and the 'threat' of which already exists is most certainly not fraud.

Given all the terms of questionable legality (such as agreeing to submit to arbitration and giving up your legal right to sue) that service providers include in the one-sided contracts they force us to agree to, don't you think they'd put "you cannot threaten to cancel if you don't intend to do so" in there somewhere if they thought they could get away with it?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> To answer your question, no. I'm satisfied with my DirecTV service. As for the things I need and want I can well afford both. Should the day come where I can no longer afford both I'll tighten my belt and do without the things I want and focus on the things I need.


Good for you, not everyone has your luck.
And when your suddenly down on your luck these providers stomp on you without another thought.
Defend that NEVER!
I have business relationships with many clients, you think they don't beat me up on price every chance they get?
Do you think I care? Nope
Because they are free to go elsewhere without penalty, even after I've spent days with them and weeks on planning all for free.
And I certainly don't tell them what they are or aren't entitled too lol.
Everyone is entitled to what ever they want.
What they get is a different story.

And they can complain all they want, no one is forced to comment or listen.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

"Well said. As I said on another post, some folks want to eat more than the can chew. Or as they say, have the cake avel and eat it too..."


Peds
You can't say anything period.
You work for them, and don't pay a full bill. LMAO. 
You're in business because of customers.
Scary your aloud to represent directv all you do is complain about how hard your job is and it's customers.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> Good for you, not everyone has your luck.
> And when your suddenly down on your luck these providers stomp on you without another thought.
> Defend that NEVER!
> I have business relationships with many clients, you think they don't beat me up on price every chance they get?
> ...


For the record luck had nothing to do as to where I'm currently at. You've looked at my profile. I spent the first twenty five years of my adult life serving in the U.S. Army (You'll never get rich by digging a ditch). Those were the lean years for my family and me. I was 42 when I retired from the Army. I began my civilian life with a brief career as a OTR driver. I wanted more for my family so I decided to invest in income properties (commercial and residential). I used my brains and gonads to build on those investments and create a business that allowed me to retire from the active work force before I was 50 and enjoy my current lifestyle. People like me don't get to where we are by being lucky but by going through life with a primary plan and two back up plans with everything we do. Your flare for dramatics is comical. Providers stomping on customers who are down on their luck? :sure: When you don't pay your bill two things will happen. Your service will be terminated and your account will be handed over to a collection agency. SOP for businesses because businesses are about making a profit and not about being charitable. Everyone is not entitled to what they want. If they were we'd be living in a perfect world. People in Hell want ice water. Do you think Lucifer entitles them? :sure:


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Good for you, not everyone has your luck.
> And when your suddenly down on your luck these providers stomp on you without another thought.
> Defend that NEVER!
> I have business relationships with many clients, you think they don't beat me up on price every chance they get?
> ...


If I had a decrease in income, I'd lower my package, put my account on hold or cancel (one benefit of being out of contract).

I pay for several local services, I get the bill and pay for it. I don't say I don't like the price and get them to reduce the bill. The only thing I don't like is the ones that say it's due on receipt, at least give me a few days after getting the bill.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> For the record luck had nothing to do as to where I'm currently at. You've looked at my profile. I spent the first twenty five years of my adult life serving in the U.S. Army (You'll never get rich by digging a ditch). Those were the lean years for my family and me. I was 42 when I retired from the Army. I began my civilian life with a brief career as a OTR driver. I wanted more for my family so I decided to invest in income properties (commercial and residential). I used my brains and gonads to build on those investments and create a business that allowed me to retire from the active work force before I was 50 and enjoy my current lifestyle. People like me don't get to where we are by being lucky but by going through life with a primary plan and two back up plans with everything we do. Your flare for dramatics is comical. Providers stomping on customers who are down on their luck? :sure: When you don't pay your bill two things will happen. Your service will be terminated and your account will be handed over to a collection agency. SOP for businesses because businesses are about making a profit and not about being charitable. Everyone is not entitled to what they want. If they were we'd be living in a perfect world. People in Hell want ice water. Do you think Lucifer entitles them? :sure:


Congratulations.
Not everyone in the Military is as lucky as you claim to be either.

I have friends and family that Have see and been in active battle for the United states of America. 
And they certainly aren't sitting here BS about Directv's customers entitlements. 
For the record 50% of my employees were in IRAQ.
Don't F'en tell me about how poorly planned their lives are.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> Congratulations.
> Not everyone in the Military is as lucky as you claim to be either.
> 
> I have friends and family that Have see and been in active battle for the United states of America.
> ...


I entered the Army as a Private and rose to the rank of Command Sergeant Major. You don't achieve that by being lucky or being entitled. You achieve that by earning it! I too have felt the sting of battle (three combat tours in Nam, one combat tour in Iraq during Desert Storm). What Theater of Operations did you serve in? :sure: Show me where I posted how poorly planned your friends and families lives are? You can't! Once again you're using fallacy with my statements. I'm semi-retired. What I do with my time is my business. For someone who claims to run a business you certainly have a lot of free time to spend here while those 50% Iraq War veteran's you employ are out busting their ass for you!


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> I entered the Army as a Private and rose to the rank of Command Sergeant Major. You don't achieve that by being lucky or being entitled. You achieve that by earning it! I too have felt the sting of battle (three combat tours in Nam, one combat tour in Iraq during Desert Storm). What Theater of Operations did you serve in? :sure: Show me where I posted how poorly planned your friends and families lives are? You can't! Once again you're using fallacy with my statements. I'm semi-retired. What I do with my time is my business. For someone who claims to run a business you certainly have a lot of free time to spend here while those 50% Iraq War veteran's you employ are out busting their ass for you!


Just like all the tax payers that paid that huge retirement plan so you can retire at 42.

Yep they do bust their ass. 
But they are doing it for themselves not me!
Will they be able to retire at 42, doubt it because us military aren't as lucky as they were 30 years ago. 
Which is why they work for me and not uncle sam.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> I entered the Army as a Private and rose to the rank of Command Sergeant Major.


Thank you for your services, it is much appreciated.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Peds
> You can't say anything period.
> You work for them, and don't pay a full bill. LMAO.
> You're in business because of customers.
> Scary your aloud to represent directv all you do is complain about how hard your job is and it's customers.


While is true that I don't pay a full DIRECTV® bill, that is because I am truly entitled to such, as that is part of my benefits. However I do pay a full internet bill, which as I posted before, I could take the same approach as some have done here, but I refused that approach and pay my monthly bill as is


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

By the way, I paid the government 34,678 last year in federal income tax.
What did you pay?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> Just like all the tax payers that paid that huge retirement plan so you can retire at 42.
> 
> Yep they do bust their ass.
> But they are doing it for themselves not me!
> ...


You do realize military personnel are tax payers too? :sure: If they were doing it for themselves they'd be self employed instead of working for you. There is no luck in the military damondlt. Nor does the military entitle. One rises through the ranks by achievement.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

They pay far more taxes as a civilian. 

I also spend $42,000 last year on Giesinger heath care for plan for my employees as well as $30 per hundred on workers compensation. 

All that comes out of my pay.
So again no one gives a crap about taking money from my friends and family table , so by all means you should be able to ask and ***** about what ever you want.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> By the way, I paid the government 34,678 last year in federal income tax.
> What did you pay?


Are you bragging or complaining?


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Talked to Dish. It appears, after multiple transfers and asking the same questions of a variety of people, most of whom had to put me on hold to ask OTHER people, I finally got to the person who actually recommended a Hopper, a Super Joey, and a 2 Joeys. That'll do the 4 tvs in the house.

For the RV, they have a program where you just buy a 612 DVR, and when you're traveling you have them turn it on for $7/month. When not traveling have them turn it off. And the 612 says it'll record ota, or you can call Dish and they'll turn on the local channels where you are. I was ABSOLUTELY assured this was normal and NOT a problem as it is with Directv.

So, we may try Dish and see how it goes. One plus, is that the Winegard satellite dome receives HD for Dish, where it only gets SD for Directv.

We'll see.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> I agree with peds48. DirecTV customers are entitled to receive programming they are "paying" for and working equipment needed to receive that programming.


If that were true, they wouldn't be installing SL3 dishes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dkperez said:


> For the RV, they have a program where you just buy a 612 DVR, and when you're traveling you have them turn it on for $7/month.


Unless something has changed very recently, you can only have an owned ViP211 or two on a Hopper/Joey account. It can be "converted" to a single satellite tuner DVR for a $40 fee and I believe it will also record OTA simultaneously (if you get a non-Z model).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> If that were true, they wouldn't be installing SL3 dishes.


Why do you keep harping on this? Any customer who wants to watch the content from 119 can ask Directv to swap them out for a SL5 for free.

You'll have to find something new to whine about in a couple months, since most of us feel it is highly likely Directv will carry all the programming on 95* and 119* on the additional MPEG4 transponders added by D14. So everyone with a SL3 will be receiving everything they've "paid for" soon enough.

BTW, with Dish's screwball setup with two arcs and a mish mash of satellites that need different dishes and/or LNBs to receive, surely the same situation exists there where certain customers who get the 'standard' install have a few channels they're "paying for" that they aren't able to watch. How come you don't mention that?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Why do you keep harping on this? Any customer who wants to watch the content from 119 can ask Directv to swap them out for a SL5 for free.
> 
> You'll have to find something new to whine about in a couple months, since most of us feel it is highly likely Directv will carry all the programming on 95* and 119* on the additional MPEG4 transponders added by D14. So everyone with a SL3 will be receiving everything they've "paid for" soon enough.
> 
> BTW, with Dish's screwball setup with two arcs and a mish mash of satellites that need different dishes and/or LNBs to receive, surely the same situation exists there where certain customers who get the 'standard' install have a few channels they're "paying for" that they aren't able to watch.* How come you don't mention that?*


He wouldn't be that "dense" to mention that would he?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> BTW, with Dish's screwball setup with two arcs and a mish mash of satellites that need different dishes and/or LNBs to receive, surely the same situation exists there where certain customers who get the 'standard' install have a few channels they're "paying for" that they aren't able to watch. How come you don't mention that?


Yeah, I think friends of mine have two dishes, and at one point Dish had a satellite issue and moved our local stations to another satellite (temporarily), but it was to one they couldn't see. They tried to get moved to a one dish setup and the to see that satellite but were denied.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> Why do you keep harping on this? Any customer who wants to watch the content from 119 can ask Directv to swap them out for a SL5 for free.
> 
> You'll have to find something new to whine about in a couple months, since most of us feel it is highly likely Directv will carry all the programming on 95* and 119* on the additional MPEG4 transponders added by D14. So everyone with a SL3 will be receiving everything they've "paid for" soon enough.
> 
> BTW, with Dish's screwball setup with two arcs and a mish mash of satellites that need different dishes and/or LNBs to receive, surely the same situation exists there where certain customers who get the 'standard' install have a few channels they're "paying for" that they aren't able to watch. How come you don't mention that?


I can never understand his or DISH's cockamamie logic.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Dish made existing customers whom had the wing dish setup pay $99 to upgrade to a 1000.4 dish to get all the HD channels they were paying for and not getting.
When dish decided to put all new HD channels on 129 and 72.5 only.
The 110/119/61.5 customers got shafted
Guess we all forgot about that one.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Why do you keep harping on this?


Because a condition exists where many subscribers are unwittingly denied access to services that are part of their subscription.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> BTW, with Dish's screwball setup with two arcs and a mish mash of satellites that need different dishes and/or LNBs to receive, surely the same situation exists there where certain customers who get the 'standard' install have a few channels they're "paying for" that they aren't able to watch. How come you don't mention that?


I didn't mention it because I'm not sure the condition exists unless there's some issue with locals and someone who subscribes to certain foreign language programming.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Well with DIRECTV it's really just some foreign language stuff so.... And no the music channels do not count.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> I didn't mention it because I'm not sure the condition exists *unless there's some issue with locals and someone who subscribes to certain foreign language programming.*


And that does not count???? LMAO.... !rolling !rolling !rolling


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## Sgtsbabygirl1 (Dec 15, 2014)

I have a question. What channels would someone with an SL3 dish not get versus an SL5? You have to have the SL5 for international programming and some locals, I believe but those customers get that dish. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

> I have a question. What channels would someone with an SL3 dish not get versus an SL5? You have to have the SL5 for international programming and some locals, I believe but those customers get that dish.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Working in a predominatlly SL3 market I've had upgrades for the Hope Channel, Jewish Life and Holliday Music. Those are just a few of the channels included in most packages that people miss with an SL3. The customers who got those upgrades spent hours on the phone.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> And that does not count???? LMAO.... !rolling !rolling !rolling


Not according to inkahauts.

Of course the magic lies in the fact that you can splice a combination of dishes and/or slots together if you must -- something that isn't possible with the recent DIRECTV stacking schemes.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

harsh said:


> Unless something has changed very recently, you can only have an owned ViP211 or two on a Hopper/Joey account. It can be "converted" to a single satellite tuner DVR for a $40 fee and I believe it will also record OTA simultaneously (if you get a non-Z model).


Yes only 211's are allowed to be activated as an extra receiver for camping or tailgating on an acct w/ a Hopper.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

On the subject of threatening to switch providers it is interesting for how many people that is actually an idle threat. I know because I work for company that among other things sells both satellite providers service, so it's not unusual to get someone complaining about their satellite bill and then use the "threat" of switching to the other. I can't tell you how many times where I've offered the other service to the customer after they threatened to cancel the one they have and have gotten where all the sudden they get all mumbly and stuttery and end up telling me they want to think about it. Obviously they were fishing for discounts not really wanting to switch, of course since we can't offer discounts to existing customers as a retailer we can only offer them the other service and if that's not what they were hoping for everything comes to a screeching halt.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> Not according to inkahauts.
> 
> Of course the magic lies in the fact that you can splice a combination of dishes and/or slots together if you must -- something that isn't possible with the recent DIRECTV stacking schemes.


What are you talking about? You can get every channel Directv offers with a SL5 LNB and a separate 95* dish, which all feeds into a SWM. You know this of course, you're just spreading FUD as usual. You might be able to fool people into believing you in the Dish forums, but not here.

I wonder what you'll whine about instead in two months when I'm betting the SL3 LNB alone will receive every channel Directv offers, and Dish will be the only one that requires a "combination of dishes" to achieve that.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> Not according to inkahauts.
> 
> Of course the magic lies in the fact that you can splice a combination of dishes and/or slots together if you must -- something that isn't possible with the recent DIRECTV stacking schemes.


Sorry but can't help it.... !rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

samrs said:


> Working in a predominatlly SL3 market I've had upgrades for the Hope Channel, Jewish Life and Holliday Music. Those are just a few of the channels included in most packages that people miss with an SL3. The customers who got those upgrades spent hours on the phone.


HOPE Channel, JLTV, GODTV all moved to 103W. So I don't think there is really anything on 119 that someone "pays" for and do not get

This should shut up harsh

Let's see what he is going to come up next with.....


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

mun2 is the only one, however up until the last contract renewal with NBCU it was exclusive to the Spanish packages.

If you want to count UniMas West, which only became available in English packages after Univsion renewed their contract with DirecTV last year, nearly every market with a significant hispanic population gets their local version as part of their locals.

As for music channels, outside of the Spanish ones, the only ones on 119 are those targetted to commercial customers, prior to the switch from SiriusXM to SonicTap in 2010 they weren't even available to residential customers.

For Christmas music, DirecTV replaces Big Band and Swing on 801 with the Holidays channel when the switch to Christmas music happens so everyone gets it, a lot of the other channels also mix Christmas music into their playlists.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> HOPE Channel, JLTV, GODTV all moved to 103W. So I don't think there is really anything on 119 that someone "pays" for and do not get
> 
> This should shut up harsh
> 
> Let's see what he is going to come up next with.....


MPEG4 only SD channels?

Though even as a major space geek, NASA TV is generally a snoozefest.


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## mika911 (May 2, 2006)

I wonder if the Spanish language content on 119 could be moved to another sat in the future? The subs to the Spanish package cannot be small, would it make sense to get more people off the 5 sat LNB (at least new subscribers and those upgrading to SWM)?

I recently went down to 3 LNB when I switched to SWM. I haven't missed anything, but I do not know Spanish. I always thought there might be a day that some sporting event could be on one of the Spanish language channels I'd want to see, and I could subscribe to them for a month, when I still had the 5 sat LNB.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

> HOPE Channel, JLTV, GODTV all moved to 103W. So I don't think there is really anything on 119 that someone "pays" for and do not get
> 
> This should shut up harsh
> 
> Let's see what he is going to come up next with.....


Wow. Guess I hadn't been paying attention. So much for that easy money.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

mika911 said:


> I wonder if the Spanish language content on 119 could be moved to another sat in the future? The subs to the Spanish package cannot be small, would it make sense to get more people off the 5 sat LNB (at least new subscribers and those upgrading to SWM)?
> 
> I recently went down to 3 LNB when I switched to SWM. I haven't missed anything, but I do not know Spanish. I always thought there might be a day that some sporting event could be on one of the Spanish language channels I'd want to see, and I could subscribe to them for a month, when I still had the 5 sat LNB.


As I alluded to in an earlier post, I think that once D14 is operational in two months, Directv will carry MPEG4 versions of everything on 119 and 95, so a SL3 LNB will receive everything Directv offers. The benefit for carrying a copy of the content on 95 is obvious - they'll never need to install another international dish. The payoff for carrying a copy of the content on 119 is less obvious, but the need for a SL5 for certain content means an installer visit to replace a SL3 is required.

There are also fewer issues with LOS having everything at 99/101/103. The wider the required satellite arc the greater the likelihood that trees or other obstructions will be in the way. They could even switch to a smaller dish, since it wouldn't need the wide arc any longer.


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## dkperez (Apr 20, 2012)

Unless something has changed very recently, you can only have an owned ViP211 or two on a Hopper/Joey account. It can be "converted" to a single satellite tuner DVR for a $40 fee and I believe it will also record OTA simultaneously (if you get a non-Z model).



tsmacro said:


> Yes only 211's are allowed to be activated as an extra receiver for camping or tailgating on an acct w/ a Hopper.


I just checked my notes - of which I take many and have the person on the other end confirm everything they say 'cause I've been dealing with Directv for several years.

Confused again..... When I spoke to the multitude of Dish people, I was eventually transferred to a supervisor because the phone answerers kept having to put me on hold to go ask questions. I was told by the supervisor that to do what I want, I needed a Hopper/Super Joey/Joey set in the house. For the RV, he told me all they (Dish) had was a VIP211z that is JUST a receiver and would never be an HD DVR (I THOUGHT I read that adding a hard drive to the 211z MADE it an HD DVR, but apparently I was wrong). He then told me to go to Camping World or one of the other equipment retailers and buy a 612 HD DVR ($70) and put that in the RV. And that there would be just the standard $7/month charge for any month in which that piece of equipment was active...

AND, that Dish would HAPPILY, with no argument (unlike Directv) switch my location when traveling so I can get local channels where I am...

Is this not possible or am I misunderstanding something?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It seems obvious that pestering DISH CSRs at multiple levels isn't getting you a whole lot closer to the truth. CSRs have their place with both companies but answering hypothetical questions isn't one that they seem to be particularly adept at.

Consider going with what has been observed versus what obviously isn't covered in the Customer Service scripts.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

dkperez said:


> Unless something has changed very recently, you can only have an owned ViP211 or two on a Hopper/Joey account. It can be "converted" to a single satellite tuner DVR for a $40 fee and I believe it will also record OTA simultaneously (if you get a non-Z model).
> 
> I just checked my notes - of which I take many and have the person on the other end confirm everything they say 'cause I've been dealing with Directv for several years.
> 
> ...


Once again only a 211 is allowed to be added as receiver for camping/tailgating when you have a Hopper system as your home system, yes 211 will add $7/mo to your bill while it's activated, even if you could add a 612, that receiver would add $10/mo not $7, but since it's not possible anyway. It is possible to add a external hard drive to a 211 and for a one time $40 fee Dish will allow you to use it w/ your 211, it does give you some basic DVR functionality. As far as switching your location while traveling so you can get appropriate locals to your location as far as I know that does work just fine.


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