# 1/9 Charlie Chat - will he offer current HD subs a deal?



## DishNet_Fan (Oct 14, 2003)

I have a feeling we are screwed come Feb 1. Maybe if we ***** enough, Charlie offers an upgrade plan in 2007. Any comments?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Charlie Chat is on the air Monday night at 9pm ET - only a couple of days away.
Join us in the DBSTalk Chat at 8:30pm as we talk about the chat.

Patience. Only rumor mongers are saying you're screwed. WIth the new HD channels being ONLY in MPEG4 and Charlie wanting to sell those channels to existing subs there will have to be a deal of some sort.

JL


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## TheTony (Jan 6, 2006)

James Long said:


> WIth the new HD channels being ONLY in MPEG4 and Charlie wanting to sell those channels to existing subs there will have to be a deal of some sort.
> 
> JL


I hope so too. It just seems logical. However, previous experience would tell me not to hold my breath.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

:welcome_s TheTony
I try not to hold my breath for more than a few seconds anyways. 

JL


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## TheTony (Jan 6, 2006)

James Long said:


> :welcome_s TheTony
> I try not to hold my breath for more than a few seconds anyways.
> 
> JL


:wave:Thanks.

You know, I was told I'd be blue in the face before an existing customer got a DVR... :whatdidid


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s Tony 

Monday's chat should be very interesting to say the least.  Charlie would not reveal what type of deal existing customers will get, but the work attractive was used. Also he made a passing statement that recent 942 customers should be able to swap for the price of a service call. 

Lets hope it is a good deal.


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

Even if he were to offer a deal for current subscribers, does anybody really think that there will be enough in stock to meet wants. My guess is that they will go the "contact your local retailer" route, which for a direct swap out of a 942 for VIP622 would be ridiculous. Let me preface my next comment with the statement that I have always been happy with my receivers, but I have always waited a bit of a while while problems were being shaken out. Isn't there a good possibility that there will be initial software issues with these new receivers that will make them less desirable then more stable models? Weren't most people want to wait to simply wait until we see how stable the boxes are?


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## twelveone (Nov 22, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Also he made a passing statement that recent 942 customers should be able to swap for the price of a service call.
> 
> Lets hope it is a good deal.


That is encouraging news!:grin:

I just got a 942 and an 811 last month when I signed up. I hope that counts as recent! I would hate to think I just spent $250 and now I have to spend a bunch more.


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

wkomorow said:


> Even if he were to offer a deal for current subscribers, does anybody really think that there will be enough in stock to meet need. My guess is that they will go the "contact your local retailer" route, which for a direct swap out of a 942 for VIP622 would be ridiculous. Let me preface my next comment with the statement that I have always been happy with my receivers, but I have always waited a bit of a while while problems were being shaken out. Isn't there a good possibility that there will be initial software issues with these new receivers that will make them less desirable then more stable models, initially?


I feel certain Dish is feverishly working to produce these units. Why wouldn't they. And I feel certain, you will see a more stable software environment. Dish has gone to great lengths, to ensure these for the future. Give them a chance, I think this unit is going to be great.


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## Cold Irons (Dec 7, 2005)

1) I really have to assume that Dish WANTS existing HD subs (like me) to have the new channels/622 so that they can continue to get my money.....so there will be an "attractive" upgrade option.

2) I can wait a little while for this to happen...

3) I've never had ANY desire to have a Dish DVR when they first come out - any more than I want to install the latest Windows, iTunes, etc. when they first come out. Wait for the bugs to be shaken out first.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Box stability is definitely something to be concerned about with any release. One of the pluses in that area is the 622 builds on the 942 code base. The 942 code base does seem reasonably solid. Another one is that I believe over time Dish is improving their process and I have seen signs of this improvement. I am sure the 622 will release with bugs. Every product does, but hopefully it will be more stable than the 942 when it released. My guess is that it will be. 

Time will tell.


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

Rumors are that existing 921/942 owners will be offered an attractive lease deal. But, what if we owned our box and wanted to continue to own it? Will a trade-in or swap be available to us? I don't think so. We'll have to purchase a new box instead. I wouldn't mind the attractive lease deal, if I could then sell my two 942's, but if I have to send them back, I won't do it.


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## nitram22 (Jun 10, 2004)

Since I own my 921, I'd rather lease/purchase/borrow a 622, and offload the 921 to my parents so they have a DVR (they don't care about hd)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DVDDAD said:


> Will a trade-in or swap be available to us? I don't think so. We'll have to purchase a new box instead.


I'm trying not to think. Stay tuned for Monday's chat.

JL


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I like how these (and other) forums go in regards to rumors... Someone starts a rumor, perhaps even claims to have "heard it from his secret contact at Echostar" and people believe it.

If it is a good rumor that doesn't pan out... everyone gets mad at Dish. If it is a bad rumor, people get mad at Dish even though they haven't announced anything!

There will be plenty of time to get mad after the Charlie Chat OR after Feb 1st if Dish screws people... getting mad now over rumors doesn't do any of us any good. You don't need practice to be mad properly... when the time comes, you can get mad just the same if you need to.

So I vote, don't believe the hype (good or bad) until someone at Dish actually says something.

For an example... Someone on the other forum stated earlier this week that he was "certain" that new HD channels would be turned on by 5pm Thursday... and then when the Feb 1st announcement came from Dish a bunch of people got mad at Dish! Why? Not like they said they were coming out with channels in Jan... Dish said "wait until Jan for some announcements"... and they announced... but people got mad at Dish because of what the rumor-folk were saying.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I think that existing HD consumers are going to get the same kind of deal from E*. There is and was a pretty good deal on the 811. Otherwise we had to buy the 921, or later we had to buy the 942. Lease options for new customers was and is doable. It would be nice if E* did promote something special to existing HD consumers but if the past has anything to say, get you wallets out! Again for those who can wait, I think that there will be better prices for receivers and there most likely will be better models.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

For those that lease there boxes I imgine it will be very easy process. Commit for another year pay for shipping blah blah blah....

For those that own there hardware and want to continue to do so...it may be more painful (i.e. $$) but that is the price if you want to own.

I think the 942 will be a great 2nd reciever to replace a 501 I have in the bedroom. I own it...so its no big deal...I will be able to watch down rez HD on my SD set which looks really nice.

Now if they want to swap 1 for 1 a 942 for a 622 I wouldnt mind that either....but that is more wishfull dreaming


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Best Case Scenario..... $49 (I'm assuming $299 though) to upgrade your box. You have to return your other box to qualify. You own the box.

Worst Case Scenario... $299 to "upgrade" to a lease deal (which then begs the question.... how many years are you stuck with it until the NEXT latest and greatest box is released with more features or a larger hard drive?). They wind up trying to charge full price to 921/942 users. I don't think this is likely. I just saw the press conference and it sounds like they are going to upgrade 921/942 users, it's just a matter of what gotchas they are going to attach to the deal.


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## dvwannab (Dec 16, 2005)

Bold prediction from a new guy IRT Charlie Chat on Monday.

- New HD channels will be in MPEG2 for existing subs in a variety of HD packages. Timetable will be announced later when total conversion to MPEG4 HD and all grandfathered subs will have to upgrade.

- New subs wil have to get an MPEG4 capable box as they become available.

- Bunch of other stuff HD-philes dont care about :lol: 

How is that for bold predictions


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## nospam (Sep 28, 2005)

dvwannab said:


> Bold prediction from a new guy IRT Charlie Chat on Monday.
> 
> - New HD channels will be in MPEG2 for existing subs in a variety of HD packages. Timetable will be announced later when total conversion to MPEG4 HD and all grandfathered subs will have to upgrade.


MPEG2 on 61.5 for existing customers versus Dish1000 and MPEG4 on 129 for new customers?
That would explain why they are not taking new VOOM orders.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

nospam said:


> MPEG2 on 61.5 for existing customers versus Dish1000 and MPEG4 on 129 for new customers?
> That would explain why they are not taking new VOOM orders.


This makes sense. Can you prove it as fact or theory?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

nospam said:


> MPEG2 on 61.5 for existing customers versus Dish1000 and MPEG4 on 129 for new customers?
> That would explain why they are not taking new VOOM orders.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Thats good, rumors are really fun sometimes. Here is mine. All HD on 110.    

Log this away for another day please.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Didn't they say they would be in mpeg4 on the last tech chat? Based on that what was announced mpeg4 should have been expected instead everyone thought the tech chat got it wrong based on the prior charlie chat.

Its also been reported that espn2 is in mpeg2 now, I don't know how anyone knows unless they have a hacked receiver. As far as I know they are just reading the channel information and that info as been shown to not be 100% accurate.

I think Voom will be the same on both slots, its been said that voom encodes and uplinks the channels directly to 61.5 and dish reuplinks them from 61.5 to 129. I doubt they re-encode it so its probably identical on both.


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## technoguy (Sep 11, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I like how these (and other) forums go in regards to rumors... Someone starts a rumor, perhaps even claims to have "heard it from his secret contact at Echostar" and people believe it.
> 
> If it is a good rumor that doesn't pan out... everyone gets mad at Dish. If it is a bad rumor, people get mad at Dish even though they haven't announced anything!
> 
> ...


Like I post before in the other board,This is when a reliable source make you look really bad.:nono2:


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

technoguy said:


> Like I post before in the other board,This is when a reliable source make you look really bad.:nono2:


The one thing about here is, we will never make you look bad. We do wait before getting anyones expectations up. (942+)


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## DJ Rob (Jul 24, 2003)

I just heard that most of us won't be able to see the chat because it will be in MP4


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## technoguy (Sep 11, 2005)

Jeff McClellan said:


> The one thing about here is, we will never make you look bad. We do wait before getting anyones expectations up. (942+)


Hope keep it that way.


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

technoguy said:


> Hope keep it that way.


We will, that you can bank on. That is why all of us get up each day to come here, its for you, not us. Thanks for the support to.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

DJ Rob said:


> I just heard that most of us won't be able to see the chat because it will be in MP4


My bet is multi-cast. How about the mass majority of subscribers that don't have HD?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* should put the Chat on channel 100 with multiple camera angles. 
Then you could see other's reaction to what the on camera guy is saying.

JL


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

James Long said:


> E* should put the Chat on channel 100 with multiple camera angles.
> Then you could see other's reaction to what the on camera guy is saying.
> 
> JL


That's a good one James. What views would you like to see? :grin: Just imagine, six different views of Charlies head. :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Leslie comes to mind. But there are a lot of people in the peanut gallery that would be fun to watch when the more technical answers are discussed.

JL


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

technoguy said:


> Like I post before in the other board,This is when a reliable source make you look really bad.:nono2:


What do you mean by a reliable source makes you look bad?

In my opinion, perception is only perceived reality and it is up to each one of us to choose to believe the perception created by statements made by sources reliable or not. The problem with rumors and FUD is that nobody keeps count of the correct rumors vs. the non-correct and in a lot of cases rumors can be spun at a later date to appear to be correct when in reality they are just twisted to appear that way. Kinda of like what people that make predictions do. Microsoft is a excellent example of this type of behavior in my opinion.

Sometimes if one looks a little closer, one may find that perception is actually only perceived reality and not the truth at all. Who even knows if a reliable source is actually a reliable source? That is the trick.... And in my opinion it is each one of us job to determine what reality really is and not something that is painted to be.

Well that is my philosophical statement of the day.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

James Long said:


> E* should put the Chat on channel 100 with multiple camera angles.
> Then you could see other's reaction to what the on camera guy is saying.
> 
> JL


They should use the mosaic technology..  6 pictures on one screen... One pointing to charlie and then one to at each of the development managers. That way when Charlie says something that is totally incorrect or undoable you can watch the jaws drop.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> What do you mean by a reliable source makes you look bad?
> 
> In my opinion, perception is only perceived reality and it is up to each one of us to choose to believe the perception created by statements made by sources reliable or not. The problem with rumors and FUD is that nobody keeps count of the correct rumors vs. the non-correct and in a lot of cases rumors can be spun at a later date to appear to be correct when in reality they are just twisted to appear that way. Kinda of like what people that make predictions do. Microsoft is a excellent example of this type of behavior in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Socrates would be proud!


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

When the 811 came out I was able to buy a new 811 for $99 with NO COMMITMENT. $99 and I got to keep my 2 6000s. The only thing that I did not like about the deal was that they would not ship me the box, a DNSC person had to come out and install it... Really hard work to screw in the antenna, and dish feeds and plug in the HDTV connections, took an extra week to wait for an installer.

I do not care if I lease or own. My only gripe about leasing is that they limit the #/type of receivers you can have. That is why I own. What I pretty much see me in the future is having 3 - 2 tuner boxes. Either 2 622s and one 222 or 2 222s and 1 622. I want to feed 6 TVs (only 3 are HD) with 3 boxes.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

nospam said:


> MPEG2 on 61.5 for existing customers versus Dish1000 and MPEG4 on 129 for new customers?
> That would explain why they are not taking new VOOM orders.


Hey, as far as rumors go... that would be a good one, and just logical enough to almost make sense.

This would be an intriguing possibility, though I doubt it will actually happen.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> Leslie comes to mind. But there are a lot of people in the peanut gallery that would be fun to watch when the more technical answers are discussed.
> 
> JL


Is she the one who usually gives remote instructions? If so, the last chat I saw her on she had more other technical answers than the main guys.

There have been a bunch of times when I would have loved to see Charlie's face while the peanut gallery was answering a technical question... or their reaction when Charlie blurted out something.

Like it or not, one thing I do like is Charlie actually having the guts to go on the air live with his chats. How many other CEOs would do that? He could step into all kinds of trouble if he doesn't watch himself, so I have to applaud him for actually airing the thing live. Even if they do filter phone calls and emails like any sensible company would... he's still out there unscripted and can very easily "promise" or appear to promise things that would be tough to back out of.


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## dwcobb (Oct 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> E* should put the Chat on channel 100 with multiple camera angles.
> Then you could see other's reaction to what the on camera guy is saying.
> 
> JL


That would actually be very funny...because then none of us 921 users would be able to see it at all ; ).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dwcobb said:


> That would actually be very funny...because then none of us 921 users would be able to see it at all ; ).


I was waiting for that reply. 

JL


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## technoguy (Sep 11, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> What do you mean by a reliable source makes you look bad?
> 
> In my opinion, perception is only perceived reality and it is up to each one of us to choose to believe the perception created by statements made by sources reliable or not. The problem with rumors and FUD is that nobody keeps count of the correct rumors vs. the non-correct and in a lot of cases rumors can be spun at a later date to appear to be correct when in reality they are just twisted to appear that way. Kinda of like what people that make predictions do. Microsoft is a excellent example of this type of behavior in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Ron:
What I mean is on the time I read through the differents boards around And some people post things like the information they got it's been written on stone and in a matter of hours that info it's wash away that person who though he have all the facts came to look like a jack a****.That's is why I take news regarless who or when came from with pincers,That way I would not caugh on the spin.


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## johnnyd1023 (May 14, 2005)

I own my 942. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel as if I am in a better position for the upgrade then someone that leases the 942 or doesn't have one. Don't ask me to explain. Like I said it is just a feeling. We will see on Monday ! :grin:


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

DVDDAD said:


> Rumors are that existing 921/942 owners will be offered an attractive lease deal. But, what if we owned our box and wanted to continue to own it? Will a trade-in or swap be available to us? I don't think so. We'll have to purchase a new box instead. I wouldn't mind the attractive lease deal, if I could then sell my two 942's, but if I have to send them back, I won't do it.


Dish Depot is offering th vip622 at $649. Will offer you $100 for a 921 and $200 for a 942. $75 or 811, 721 or 6000.

I hope Dish itself will come up with a better deal as that makes my upgrade path expensive.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

BobMurdoch said:


> Best Case Scenario..... $49 (I'm assuming $299 though) to upgrade your box. You have to return your other box to qualify. You own the box.
> 
> Worst Case Scenario... $299 to "upgrade" to a lease deal (which then begs the question.... how many years are you stuck with it until the NEXT latest and greatest box is released with more features or a larger hard drive?). They wind up trying to charge full price to 921/942 users. I don't think this is likely. I just saw the press conference and it sounds like they are going to upgrade 921/942 users, it's just a matter of what gotchas they are going to attach to the deal.


 I would hope for the best case scenario since the 942 and 622 are mechanically identical with the exception of the main board and front door. My WAG is some type of trade in program where dish will cycle 942's thru and turn them into 622's.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm hoping they offer some sort of easy upgrade path for us 811 users. The 811 has been a great box, and especially for the price I got it at - free with 1 year sub - but man am I ever tired of putting up with it's little quarks and glitches. I'm starting to believe that they put some AI code in there that emulates a lazy human - it works when it wants to work.

I'm looking forward to shelling out $49 or $99 for a quick and easy swap to a 211 or a little more for a 411 (hopefully shipped direct to me) for a whole bag of new bugs, glitches, and of course ESPN2HD.


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## Orcatek (May 1, 2003)

The person in the Dish both I spoke with said. Worst case would be $299 to upgrade from non-HD non-DVR receivers to Vip622. Higher end receivers should see even better deals.

Now it was just a guy who worked for Dish in the booth said, who knows what he really knew or how much smoke he was blowing.

I'm hopeful.


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> :welcome_s Tony
> 
> Monday's chat should be very interesting to say the least. Charlie would not reveal what type of deal existing customers will get, but the work attractive was used. Also he made a passing statement that recent 942 customers should be able to swap for the price of a service call.
> 
> Lets hope it is a good deal.


I don't remember the word "attractive". I do remember the word "convienent"


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

dave1234 said:


> I would hope for the best case scenario since the 942 and 622 are mechanically identical with the exception of the main board and front door. My WAG is some type of trade in program where dish will cycle 942's thru and turn them into 622's.


 I hate it when I have to correct myself. The rear sheet metal is not identical as the ViP622 has an additional s-video connector.....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The ViP also has a ethernet port. 

JL


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

DJ Rob said:


> I just heard that most of us won't be able to see the chat because it will be in MP4


I have always suspected that Charlie talks to himself! This just confirms it! And when he says the upgrade will be attractive, he means attractive to CHARLIE's wallet, not yours. 
I had to run 150ft of RG6 to a location where I could "SEE" 61 degrees versus 110/119. Lots of woods in the way. But since the dish was free when I bought the locals because some were on thet bird I guess that was my "free upgrade"


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

waltinvt said:


> I don't remember the word "attractive". I do remember the word "convienent"


I believe attractive was used in the press conference, but I am not 100% sure. Will have to go back and take a listen again.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

audiomaster said:


> I have always suspected that Charlie talks to himself! This just confirms it! And when he says the upgrade will be attractive, he means attractive to CHARLIE's wallet, not yours.
> I had to run 150ft of RG6 to a location where I could "SEE" 61 degrees versus 110/119. Lots of woods in the way. But since the dish was free when I bought the locals because some were on thet bird I guess that was my "free upgrade"


Please dont take offense here but is it Charlies's fault that you dont live in a location that is easy for you to pick up the satellites that you want to get ?


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## deuces (Jan 4, 2006)

I have the same opportunity, but have not gotten the second dish yet. Which way will that point if I am near St. Louis?


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## Alpaca Bill (Jun 17, 2005)

Not that this makes it official by any means but I was told by at least 10 people at the Dish booth over the 4 days (after the press conference) that worst case was going to be a $299 upgrade for non-dvr customers and $99 for 921/942 customers with a 2 yr commitment of any HD Pak (i.e. $54.99 or higher). Two more people kinda let it slip out and then clammed up really fast but they "told" me prior to the press conference. Kinda like they new what the promo was going to be and realized that it had not been made puplic yet. They both quickly looked at each other and then changed the topic quickly. They let it slip when I was telling them about a customer of mine (wink wink) that has been thru 8 921s and how upset they were that they could not get the 942. They ALL made the same "uggghhh the 921 is a dog" comment and the NEED to upgrade.

I also overheard a conversation that Charlie was having with 3 of his major distributors for the east coast (it was in front of the HD viewing wall). He also mentioned the same $299 and $99 figures but in more discrete way. He also said that he has something in the works that is going to turn the DBS world on it's ear IF he can figure out 2 things first...1) How to do it exactly and 2) How to make money with it. He then continued on about why should he worry about making money now since he hasn't in the past 25 years anyway (chickles all around). He then started into a story about how well the 622 works since he has had one for the past several months.


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## Alpaca Bill (Jun 17, 2005)

Okay so I was mostly right.

New customer or any existing receiver customer other than the 4 below ------ ViP211 for $99 or ViP622 for $299

811/6000 currently ------ ViP211 for $49 or ViP622 for $299

921/942 currently ------- ViP622 for $99 (after 4/1/06) or $299 now


All include installation and Dish1000 dish.

No yearly commitment


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## Chris Ruhl (Dec 13, 2005)

So how much (besides the upgrade) will HD locals cost per month?


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

Unless I misunderstood, right now Local HD is included in the cost of SD locals according to Mr. Ergen.


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## SJ HART (Feb 12, 2003)

They also didn't discuss upgrade costs for folks who already have multiple HD receivers. We have both a 921 and 942 in our house. SJ


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## Rotryrkt (Dec 11, 2004)

It sounded to me like these were lease only deals. What about those of us who own our hardware? I am sure not going to send them a receiver that I own in exchange for a leased unit.


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## Codeman00 (Dec 13, 2003)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Okay so I was mostly right.
> 
> New customer or any existing receiver customer other than the 4 below ------ ViP211 for $99 or ViP622 for $299
> 
> ...


But do the 811 customers get to take advantage of the rebate offer? (they really didn't say and it didn't seem like they had thought about it). I own my 811 and rent a 501....I'm confused. What's my best option?

Also, if I have HD already...and 2 dishes, do I need to have a Dish1000 installed?


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## DougRuss (Oct 16, 2005)

Plus what ever the Lease Fee is per month ?


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Okay so I was mostly right.
> 
> New customer or any existing receiver customer other than the 4 below ------ ViP211 for $99 or ViP622 for $299
> 
> ...


If I read it correctly we can upgrade to a Leased ViP622 from a 94x for $99 (after rebate)

Now my question... I paid in blood (well not as much as the 941 people) 700+ for my 942... are they going to give me a 622 as a replacement...

Here are the question left open for me:
1 if we bought can we upgrade to a non-leased unit. just a swap out I own new unit.
2. if we must lease, have they dropd that darn DVR and unit fee (was not on the grid tonight)

almost as many questions as before they made it clear...


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Okay so I was mostly right.
> 
> New customer or any existing receiver customer other than the 4 below ------ ViP211 for $99 or ViP622 for $299
> 
> ...


That should read

921/942 currently ------- Lease ViP622 for $99 (after 4/1/06) or $299 now

So for those of us that own our 942's what does this mean? We won't own the ViP622? Our current 942's are worth very little?


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

Rotryrkt said:


> It sounded to me like these were lease only deals. What about those of us who own our hardware? I am sure not going to send them a receiver that I own in exchange for a leased unit.


Exactly. For some these deals are very fair. For those of us who just paid $700 for a 942, paying any amount to no longer own the receiver is not fair. If the price of an upgrade with exchange were $299 or even $399, I would exchange in a heartbeat as long as I continue to own my receiver.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

If I have AEP is there no $5 lease fee (or do I just dodge the PVR fee)?


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## jakexxl (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm guessing the upgrade costs to a ViP622 won't be a tad cheaper if there is no "installation" involved? I would think a lot (or most) people with 942s already have the Dish1000.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

just the pvr, the lease fee just takes the place of the additional receiver fee. But on DHA if you only have 1 receiver the lease fee is part of the price (I dunno how they handle exisiting customers if you only have 1 receiver and it's leased)

but then again this picture says the HD package prices covers 2 rooms (I guess that's assuming 1 receiver using a 622 or 222 (which wasn't even mentioned tonight)

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4799&d=1136445727


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

Lots of answers tonight but even more questions! I'm in the category of a Dish subscriber with a 942, 921 (both owned) and a 501 and 301 (Charlie's as part of a package) I subscribe to AEP + HD, Locals, and Voom with the $5 monthly maintenance charge to cover everything. I have a Dish 500 (110/119) and Dish 300 (61.5) connected to 2 SW64s in tandem to provide up to 8 outputs (ala the Dish specs). Here are some thoughts for you to comment on: 
What's the monthly leasing charge per DVR? I've never leased and I avoid the box charges (but not the lease) with the "Everything" package. I see that Dish Depot is taking pre-orders on the 622 for $649 with $200 back for a 942 ($100 back for a 921) so you could trade in your 942 and have a net cost of $449 for a 622 with no monthly leasing commitment. Of course this would mean getting your own Dish 1000 and installing it with any needed peripherals but I have a Plan "A" to handle this.

I live in one of the 5 areas (NY) that will be getting locals in HD before March (if Charlie was right) so if I wait until April for the rebate I lose out on a lot of HD programming until then. But here's what I'm thinking about. If I trade in my 921 (good riddance!) now - or whenever they let me - for $299 they will throw in the "professional" installation of the new dish,etc. Then I can decide in April whether I want to trade in my owned 942 and buy a 622 from Dish Depot for $449(net) or absorb a second leasing charge. Some of this depends on the monthly charge since the $350 difference in cost (maybe more if they wave the installation fee since I don't need a dish the second time) might buy a lot of months of leasing. I'm not worried about equipment failure since I pay the monthly $5 or so fee for that as insurance. And If I decide to purchase the 622 I don't have to worry about a dish install since that will have been taken care of with the $299 921--> 622 deal.

One thing that is in the back of my mind that concerns me a bit is the following: I get 61.5 fine, and 110/119 come in with a good signal too, but that's cutting it close if I go further up the line towards 129. I'm wondering what happens if 129 becomes a no go because of line of sight. When Dish comes out to install the 1000 if they find that 129 is not possible I assume that all bets are off. Then I would have to go to Plan "B" (which actually would consist of a Plan "C" for cable - ugh! or Plan "D" for "You-know-who" - double ugh!!) Or am I being too paranoid about capturing signals from 129 if 110 and 119 are more than adequate now? 

I'm sure many of you have at least part of the same scenario I do. Besides having two HD PVRs now we probably subscribe to all the HD programming out there. It appears that the HD "Platinum" package at $104 and change is actually quite competitive with my current "Everything" package + HD + VOOM, etc. unless I'm overlooking something besides any leasing commitment. This assumes that Charlie and Co. got it right tonight with the graphics - which can be a big assumption.

So, what do you think? Obviously some of this will play out in the next month or two but my initial thoughts (for my particular situation) is to grab the 622 for a 921 deal ASAP since I would like the additional channels when they are offered and would like Dish to install the new dish, etc. in case of reception issues. Then in April I can decide whether to lease another 622 (assuming they let us -- I don't see why not) or to trade in my 942 for $200 at Dish Depot with no leasing.

Sound like a plan?

Comments?

Anything else I missed?


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes the folks that get the platinum package will actually save $10 off of HD programming, pretty nice.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Look at if a ViP622 with two "home distribution" outputs can replace more than a simple 921 or 942.

Personally a ViP622 could replace my 501/301/301 combo and I don't qualify for the rebate so I'll probably hammer them as quickly as possible to get a ViP622. (My wife and I only need two TV channels at a time.)

A lot can be done with consolidation.

JL


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

> One thing that is in the back of my mind that concerns me a bit is the following: I get 61.5 fine, and 105/119 come in with a good signal too, but that's cutting it close if I go further up the line towards 129. I'm wondering what happens if 129 becomes a no go because of line of sight. When Dish comes out to install the 1000 if they find that 129 is not possible I assume that all bets are off.


I spoke with Dish Tech support last week, and was informed that 129 is to essentially be the west coast version of 61.5. it was stated that persons east of Harrisburg PA can not see 129 (basically the New England area and parts of the Mid Atlantic states), which are served by 61.5. And 61.5 can't hit some western areas which is what 129 is for.

Did this come up in the charlie chat? Based on that understanding for 129, I am not likely to see it, so they would have to put the same channels on 61.5 for me to get them.


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> I spoke with Dish Tech support last week, and was informed that 129 is to essentially be the west coast version of 61.5. it was stated that persons east of Harrisburg PA can not see 129 (basically the New England area and parts of the Mid Atlantic states), which are served by 61.5. And 61.5 can't hit some western areas which is what 129 is for.
> 
> Did this come up in the charlie chat? Based on that understanding for 129, I am not likely to see it, so they would have to put the same channels on 61.5 for me to get them.


Interesting. (Incidentally, I mistakenly typed "105" when I meant "110" but I've corrected this.) When I was at CEDIA in September, there was some mention of 129 at the Dish Booth and when the tech found out I was in the east (NY) he said, "You probably won't see 129 since it's so low on the horizon in your area." Does anyone know for sure if programming will remain, or be added on 61.5 for those of us east of Harrisburg who might have issues with 129? It doesn't make sense that such a populated area would be left out of HD reception. And if 61.5 stays for the new programming for east coasters then maybe my current 300/500 dual dishes will get everything (with 622's of course).

Thanks for any information.


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

James Long said:


> Look at if a ViP622 with two "home distribution" outputs can replace more than a simple 921 or 942.
> 
> Personally a ViP622 could replace my 501/301/301 combo and I don't qualify for the rebate so I'll probably hammer them as quickly as possible to get a ViP622. (My wife and I only need two TV channels at a time.)
> 
> ...


Yes, that's true. With 4 boxes in the house it seems like overkill until I factor in that I sometimes want to record 3 or 4 events simultaneously. That's why a 622/622 duo to replace the 921/942 duo is attractive to me even though I can only watch one show at a time. In my case, "consolidation" bows to "coverage." :lol:

Incidently James, do you happen to know the answer to the 129 degree East Coast problem? I was told by Dish personnel at CEDIA that people on the Eastern seaboard might have a problem seeing the 129 bird(s) because of the horizon angle. Will 61.5 become the East coast 129 for the new HD stuff (including locals) or are we out of luck? That doesn't seem logical since it's a very populated area.

??

Thanks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

61.5° will remain to cover east coast HD and whatever is on 129° that east coasters can't see because of the look angle.

I'm suprised that E* has not made 148° a third mirror. Lots of people with dishes pointed there on the west coast. My best guess is that they are looking to do something better at 148° - What that is just has not been announced.

JL


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

James Long said:


> 61.5° will remain to cover east coast HD and whatever is on 129° that east coasters can't see because of the look angle.
> 
> I'm suprised that E* has not made 148° a third mirror. Lots of people with dishes pointed there on the west coast. My best guess is that they are looking to do something better at 148° - What that is just has not been announced.
> 
> JL


So does that mean that I'm fine with my 300/500 61.5/110/119 coverage in the NYC area or will I have to install a 1000 for all the new HD goodies coming online in the next few months? It would make things a lot easier if my antenna equipment (which has served me well since my 6000U days) would be up to the task.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You are fine with your 61.5° install. You would have a hard time seeing 129° anyways and your HD locals for NYC will be on 61.5° (fairly soon). The only difference is if you have legacy LNBs and switches, but for the $49/$299 upgrade E* will replace all that anyways.

JL


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

It looks to me like the 622 can only receive one HD channel at a time. Is this right? I'm pretty sure my 921 can record two HD signals at once.

Does the 942 only get one HD channel at a time?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The ViP622 can record two HD programs at the same time. You can also record one OTA digital channel. It only has one HD output.

JL


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

raf, when I spoke with dish last night, they said our 61.5/110/119 would work fine with the 622 

JL, et al, the 921, while having 3 tuners, can only record 2 at a time, and you have to watch a recorded program or one of those recording. Will the 622 be different? Will it actually let you record 2 Sat HD and an OTA? would you also be able to watch DVR at that point? if so, that's friggin powerful  just wish it could record 2 OTA's until locals are available in DC. Might have to keep the 921 and upgrade the 501/301 lease to the 622 so I can do dual OTA recording for now  woot, then I could get Lost and Criminal Minds in HD at the same time


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## tommygun_00 (Jan 9, 2006)

I've been waiting on getting the upgrade to HD through dish and so far have just been getting OTA HD programming which is just fine for me. I've waited to see what the MPEG4 offering was going to be and I think I know what I want to do. I only have a few questions. Can anyone help me out?

-Which HD reciever do I need to be able to run two TV's or two rooms?

-How much more per month will it cost me with America's 120 including the basic HD package... I only want (ESPN, ESPN HD, TNT, Discovery HD, Food, HGTV)??

-Will my total cost for the install and new receiver be $299 since I don't have any HD through Dish right now?

-As more networks (MTV, CNN, VH1, etc.) go HD, will Dish charge more for those or will they just get included?

Thanks!


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## deuces (Jan 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> The ViP622 can record two HD programs at the same time. You can also record one OTA digital channel. It only has one HD output.
> 
> JL


I am currently using my 942 in single mode but feeding it to two TVs. One through the HDMI and one through the other output. Both TVs receive HD, but obviously both have to watch same thing. Will this be possible with the VIP622?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yes.

JL


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## Weezknight (Jan 3, 2006)

tommygun_00 said:


> -How much more per month will it cost me with America's 120 including the basic HD package... I only want (ESPN, ESPN HD, TNT, Discovery HD, Food, HGTV)??


As far as it looks now, you will also get all of the VOOM HD networks as well. If you match up the new packages it looks like the HD Silver (AT120?) will be 64.99 with locals.

As for your other questions, I'm sure someone else can answer those.


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

James Long said:


> You are fine with your 61.5° install. You would have a hard time seeing 129° anyways and your HD locals for NYC will be on 61.5° (fairly soon). The only difference is if you have legacy LNBs and switches, but for the $49/$299 upgrade E* will replace all that anyways.
> 
> JL


Thanks for that information, James. I've had my system for quite a number of years and my switches and LNBs go back to the days of my 6000 (when I installed the 300 for 61.5 coverage.) I had to set everything up on a very sturdy 10' pole in my yard (300 and 500 dish) in order to get a clear line of sight and all the cabling is underground. I believe I have 6 cables underground (2 for each LNB) going to my two SW64s (located in my garage) with 8 leads out of the switches to various places in my home. My only concern is that I will have enough cabling for any retrofits, specifically from the pole to the switches. I believe with the new LNBs and the new switches I have more than enough cabling for my needs when the new equipment is installed. I even left enough slack in the cabling to allow for easy fitting of future equipment on the pole. Am I on the right track here?

The reason I'm concerned at all is because even though I think I'm o.k. it would be a major project to have to install additional cables to the dish location. Everything is sealed, waterproofed, etc. underground and is quite secure. Having to open up access to the conduit might be something best left to a spring thaw, and even then things could get tricky.

Any insight you could provide would be appreciated.


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> raf, when I spoke with dish last night, they said our 61.5/110/119 would work fine with the 622


Thanks for that information. That is indeed good news. From what James Long has told me I think that I will be needing some new LNBs and switches in my current install in order to set up my current dishes to work properly with the 622, etc. Since this would be best handled by the Dish installers I'm thinking that once the 622s become available I should opt for a $299 upgrade from my 921 to get this all in place. I'll probably wait for April to swap out the 942 for another 622 and might even go for a buy rather than for a lease at that point. I can live with the new channels in one room during the interim.

Question: Did the CSR at Dish that you talked to indicate when they will start offering the 921 -> 622 swap and/or when to call back?

Take care.


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

Is it safe to say that if my setup works fine with my 942 then it will work with a 622 as well? I currently have a Dish 500 and a seperate dish pointed to 61.5.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MarkoC said:


> Is it safe to say that if my setup works fine with my 942 then it will work with a 622 as well? I currently have a Dish 500 and a seperate dish pointed to 61.5.


It should work - however they may want to spin that 61.5 dish over to 129 (or put in a D1000) if your HD locals end up there.

JL


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

tommygun_00 said:


> I've been waiting on getting the upgrade to HD through dish and so far have just been getting OTA HD programming which is just fine for me. I've waited to see what the MPEG4 offering was going to be and I think I know what I want to do. I only have a few questions. Can anyone help me out?
> 
> -Which HD reciever do I need to be able to run two TV's or two rooms?
> 
> ...


*New Prices*
AT60 $31.99 -> $34.99 locked for 2 years
AT120 $42.99 -> $44.99
AT180 $52.99 -> $54.99
AEP $86.99 -> $89.99
Average DishNetwork Pricing Increase 4%

622 and 222 or whatever it's called will be 2 output (1 HD 1 regular) 211 is 1 tuner/output as I understand the numberings 

Current HD Subscribers have a 811/921/942 receiver and are receiving services via MPEG2 technology.
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE OLYMPIC HD CHANNEL ALL NEW HD PROGRAMMING WILL REQUIRE A NEW SET TOP BOX
Either a 211 or a 622 with the DVR - MPEG4 technlology

Future Lineup: $19.99 per month
VoomHD (15 channels)
Discovery HD
TNT HD
ESPNHD
ESPN2HD
UniversalHD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
HD PPV
Olympic HD (February 1st in MPEG2 - free of charge to ALL HD customers)
H&G TV (2nd Quarter)
Food Network (2nd Quarter)

Also:
ShoHD and HBO HD and 5-10 more channels throughout the year

$299 is for 622 and install, so you are good at 299


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

rfowkes said:


> Thanks for that information. That is indeed good news. From what James Long has told me I think that I will be needing some new LNBs and switches in my current install in order to set up my current dishes to work properly with the 622, etc. Since this would be best handled by the Dish installers I'm thinking that once the 622s become available I should opt for a $299 upgrade from my 921 to get this all in place. I'll probably wait for April to swap out the 942 for another 622 and might even go for a buy rather than for a lease at that point. I can live with the new channels in one room during the interim.
> 
> Question: Did the CSR at Dish that you talked to indicate when they will start offering the 921 -> 622 swap and/or when to call back?
> 
> Take care.


I have a 921, and you have a 942. considering it wasn't possible to get my 921 working without upgrading the LNB's and adding a switch for the 61.5 dish, I'm positive they had to do the same with your 942. hence, hot swap 622, no reason to need anything new. should be a simple unplug 942, plug in 622


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

MarkoC said:


> Is it safe to say that if my setup works fine with my 942 then it will work with a 622 as well? I currently have a Dish 500 and a seperate dish pointed to 61.5.


JL makes a good point. for you, both 129 and 61.5 should be viewable, so which you use will depend where your locals end up


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## rfowkes (Nov 8, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> I have a 921, and you have a 942. considering it wasn't possible to get my 921 working without upgrading the LNB's and adding a switch for the 61.5 dish, I'm positive they had to do the same with your 942. hence, hot swap 622, no reason to need anything new. should be a simple unplug 942, plug in 622


Actually, the SW64 switches were installed way back when I first enrolled. I started with a Model 6000 for HD content, a 501 for PVR and two 301s and, therefore required a Dish 500 for 110/119 and a Dish 300 for 61.5 (where the HD content was back then). So you may be right in that I'm already set up for 61.5/110/119 switching (for both my 942 and my 921).

My only possible reason to have Dish upgrade my LNBs and switches when they install my 622s would be that I understand that "Legacy" switches might not handle the splitters that allow one to use a single cable to connect to dual tuner units like the 942/921/622. Having that capability (rather than my current two cables to each dual box) would make things much more flexible in my house where each of the other rooms only has a single cable run.) I'm still trying to find out for sure what's required to be able to implement single cable/dual tuner use.

*James?*


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## Chris Ruhl (Dec 13, 2005)

Rogueone said:


> JL makes a good point. for you, both 129 and 61.5 should be viewable, so which you use will depend where your locals end up


Any idea on how we can find out what satellite is going to carry our HD locals? I'm way outside Minneapolis and currently have a Dish 500 and pick up satellites 110 and 119. I currently have the 811 and get the HD pack. I *really* do not want to upgrade my receiver and dish. All I want are HD locals.

Is there going to be any way possible to get these? The strange thing is right now I have locals appearing in two different places. They show up in two different places on my receiver. For example: KARE Channel 11 shows up right where it should be (channel 11 ) and it also shows up at channel "8572." Its the same story for my other locals as well. Is it possible that these channels will start picking up local HD?

Thanks

Chris


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HD locals via satellite WILL be in MPEG4 ... you must upgrade your receiver to a ViP211/222/622 or 411.

The existing channels on E* will remain SD until they are not SD. We'll have to wait and see how they 'present' HD locals in the guide, other than their high channel numbers.

JL


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## Chris Ruhl (Dec 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> HD locals via satellite WILL be in MPEG4 ... you must upgrade your receiver to a ViP211/222/622 or 411.
> 
> The existing channels on E* will remain SD until they are not SD. We'll have to wait and see how they 'present' HD locals in the guide, other than their high channel numbers.
> 
> JL


JL-

So would it be possible to just upgrade the receiver and NOT the dish in my situation? How will I know if I need a new DISH as well as a receiver? 

Thanks

CR


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Chris Ruhl said:


> For example: KARE Channel 11 shows up right where it should be (channel 11 ) and it also shows up at channel "8572." Its the same story for my other locals as well. Is it possible that these channels will start picking up local HD? Chris


When you have your locals mapped, they show up at the bottom of the EPG (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc) and as the 4 digit Dish Channel.
If you disable mapping, the 4 digit Dish Channel always remains.
If Dish follows suit, the HD locals will show up with 4 digit channel numbers as 9xxx, and be mapped down with your other locals, probably as 4-1. If you're also mapping OTA locals the HD Locals may map to 4-2.
Speculating...I don't know for sure.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Chris Ruhl said:


> So would it be possible to just upgrade the receiver and NOT the dish in my situation? How will I know if I need a new DISH as well as a receiver?


The upgrade offer as stated includes professional install of 'everything you need' - E* has not mentioned an 'no-install' package although in the past customers have been able to avoid a professional install by proving to E* that they have the right dishes/satellite access. Past performance is not proof of future performance - one may be charged the package price regardless of if the install is performed. Milk may sour if left on the countertop for a week.

OK, the last part isn't E* related - but I hope everyone gets the point.

Until E* offers a better or different deal we have to go with what they said and hope for clarification (preferably in writing from E*) before assuming it will be better than we know. I'd rather be plesantly surprised. 

JL


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

kdg454 said:


> When you have your locals mapped, they show up at the bottom of the EPG (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc) and as the 4 digit Dish Channel.
> If you disable mapping, the 4 digit Dish Channel always remains.
> If Dish follows suit, the HD locals will show up with 4 digit channel numbers as 9xxx, and be mapped down with your other locals, probably as 4-1. If you're also mapping OTA locals the HD Locals may map to 4-2.
> Speculating...I don't know for sure.


The way things work today... My local SD for channel 11 (for instance) comes in on 8750 Dish, but is mapped down to channel 11 in the guide as well.

My OTA connections map as follows:

11-0 > This is my analog channel 11 signal OTA
11-1 > This is my HD digital channel 11 signal OTA
11-2,11-3 > These are 2 other sub-channels from channel 11 signal OTA

I don't know what Dish will do in terms of mapping local digitals... since the same receivers also come with OTA decoders as well.... so any down-mapping they do would have to allow for you to possibly have SD and HD digital locals via satellite AND OTA sub-channels as well, possibly for the same channel.

Methinks they will have to invent something new for how they are labelling their channels OR stop the downmapping at least for channels you are picking up OTA.


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