# Need a new universal remote, what to buy?



## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

After reading the Remote Shootout thread in this forum. I decided to look around for a better remote so vs just getting another RF-20. So,.. I'm looking to replace my RF-20 (URC-20) Universal Remote with one by Acoustic Research or Logitech. Several reasons. My RF-20 got so button presses would not even register with the remote. I would have to take the remote apart and clean the contacts on the button pads and on the contact points on the circuit board. It got so I was doing this every week. 

I was looking at the Harmony 650, 700 and One (900 albeit RF is WAY, WAY, WAY too expensive!). The thing is the Harmony remotes are TOO simple in the way they work. Using the "Activities" or Macros. I've used Macros on many remotes before. Never turns out well. If I had a macro set to (like harmony), Watch TV, if the TV was on and all I wanted was to change inputs it would turn the TV off. Since Macros have no 2 way link between the remote and the device they are controlling, the remote doesn't know the state of the device in question. It seems like more trouble than it's worth. I like the Harmony One really on Amazon. But if the only way to turn devices on and off and change inputs, etc is by these Macros. Count me out.

Now I was also looking into the Acoustic Research ARRX18G / ARRX15G on Amazon. Since it offered NATIVE RF control for DirecTV receivers (even if only one at a time). Plus it was PC programmable (like Harmonies, I KNOW). The ARRX18G has a FULL touch screen and rechargeable battery. The lesser model ARRX15G has much of the same but lacks the RF (seems to) and no recharging. 

Now it might seem like my mind is made up. It's not. I'd rather have a root-canal than go though this mess of looking for a remote. I was content with my OLDER URC-200. That broke down on me. I got the "upgraded-but-same-remote-cheaper-made" RF-20 that has now bit the dust. I've nearly ALWAYS have UEI Remote controls. I would Learn any remotes that were not in the database. Always worked for me. The RF-20 I ended up using 4 AAA rechargeable batteries. But when they die I have to remove them and charge outside the remote.

So what remote would you guys recommend? I have about 5-6 devices. Vizio TV, HR21, Toshiba DVD player / Recorder, Yamaha (older 90's) Audio Receiver, Roku XD and lastly my room AC by Frigidaire.

I'd like a remote that has rechargeable batteries /battery. Learning , programmable (for learning) buttons. RF (preferred) and more physical buttons than touch screen (unless touch screen options are large enough). MANY THANKS!!


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Harmony does an excellent job of keeping track of the power and input states of all your devices. It knows what devices are already on or off and what the current inputs are and does not send commands when devices are already in the desired state. So you don't have to worry about those details when programming or using your macros/activities. That's one of the big advantages harmony has over the competition. Xsight does traditional macros and has no state tracking. If you use discrete input and power commands like I do, then this is not an issue. Otherwise, you need to think about what needs to be turned on or off and manage that accordingly. Harmony just works. So it wins for ease of use and ease of programming. 

But it comes at a price, i.e., one button macros (sequences) are very limited on harmony, and activity macros cannot be changed, only added to. (You can do big sequences on harmony using the raw learn trick where you learn a group of commands in one learn, but it takes trial and error to get right). Of course you can use harmony in device mode if you want and turn things on and of a switch inputs one device at a time, but it messes up the state tracking so your activities get out of synch. If you go harmony, you need to make yourself use activities most of the time. With Xsight, macros are macros. Any of them can be changed to work exactly the way you want, but they're not "smart" like harmony activity macros.

I'm not sure what you mean by you "always have UEI" remotes since your RF-20 is URC. If you do indeed have some UEI remotes for teaching, then that will be a big benefit for both Xsight and Harmony. Both have somewhat clunky and frustrating software. Ex-UEI users seem to be happier with Xsight than ex-harmony users because Xsight operates like other UEI remotes, i.e., purely macro based.

I've owned the harmony 700 (and several others) and the Xsight 18G and 15G. My least favorite was the 15. Not only does it lack RF, but is quite a bit larger and heavier than the 18 and tends to eat batteries. The 18 is a better remote overall than the 700 since it does many more devices, has a touchscreen and a cradle. But both are easy to use and program. 

The Harmony One has a lot of fans, but it's an older model which lacks a set of colored buttons, so you have to use valuable screen real estate for them, requiring that you do a lot more paging around to get to often used functions. I would personally avoid it for that reason. 

One thing that is confusing at first with Xsight is managing your learns. It's not obvious that to save your learns, you must exist the software entirely, then go back in and upload your config from the remote. Many have lost a lot of learns by not doing this. But once you know what to do, it's not a problem. That's one of the things that should be improved in the software IMO.

AC control can be tricky. But if you were able to learn it on a UEI remote, then you'll be able to do the same with Xsight.

Given what you've said about your programming style, I think you'll be happier with Xsight, but Harmony would also work perfectly well. And if it turns out you don't like the Xsight, just return it and get a harmony.

Having said all of that, JP1 remotes are still my favorite, followed by Xsight, then harmony. But if you took a poll, harmony would be the most popular by far.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to mention, the Xsight works with just about any One-for-all or Next Generation RF base. So if you already have one of those, you don't have to buy the Xsight one. Probably won't work with a URC extender, but it would be nice to know for sure. So if you get an Xsight, give your old extender a try and let us know.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mdavej said:


> .....I'm not sure what you mean by you "always have UEI" remotes since your RF-20 is URC. If you do indeed have some UEI remotes for teaching, then that will be a big benefit for both Xsight and Harmony. Both have somewhat clunky and frustrating software. Ex-UEI users seem to be happier with Xsight than ex-harmony users because Xsight operates like other UEI remotes, i.e., purely macro based...


The URC-200 and the current RF-20 are both made by UEI. Matter of fact all the remotes I've had are either One-For-All or Radio-Shack UEI branded remotes. I like the JP1. I've never used it however. Not sure if I could use it on a non-serial port computer.

I had a old Radio-Shack / UEI remote Kameleon and older 7 device Learning remote. I'm used to UEI and I'm VERY familiar with the learning codes and programming. I've never used any macros. I usually just to to each device in the remote and turn it on then set the input. For example if I want to watch my Vizio. I just turn the remote to the Vizio device and press power. Then press input to get to HDMI 1 (if not already there). Then go to the DirecTV device on the remote and go from there. I've tried macros in the past. but it's WAY to easy for devices to get out-of-sync. Plus I also use a smaller 12" Emerson TV/VCR beside my bed (yep 2 TVs in one room, back to back). I use the RC65B that is RF and Backlit. So if I have a remote that tracks what the device is on (such as a channel) then it could get out-of-sync. However I can see the advantage to Macros if you have a TV, AV receiver, DirecTV receiver, etc that have to be powered up and the correct inputs selected. But I've only got the TV and DirecTV receiver and a DVD Recorder / player I use. Now I've been flip-flopping between the Harmony One and the Xsight Touch. I'm leaning more toward the Xsight 18 because of the RF and rechargeable battery. I like that it has 95%+ of the DirecTV buttons (REAL BUTTONS!) mapped without needing the touch screen. I have a URC-300 that works. But I can't stand the touch screen it has. The URC-200 and RF-20 (same remote practically) they have a B&W non-touch LCD display with buttons beside each function. So really color, B&W, touch or non. Makes no difference to me. I just got tired of the issues I had with the buttons wearing out on that RF-20 (as I described in the previous post) where the by-metal type rubber on the button contacts were wearing out. Meaning about every week I was taking the remote apart to clean the metal contacts and the rubber on the buttons. It works ok other than that. I was also getting tired of charging or changing batteries on the remote too. Also I could not learn any NEW or remap buttons. I cloned the URC-200 to the RF-20. Must have had slightly different SW. It would crash and restart if I tried to learn a command. So the Xsight 18 is probably what I will get. I thank you for your input.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm a big Harmony fan myself. I've got Harmony Ones in my theater room and living room and a 880 in the bedroom. I'm about to replace the 880 with a 700 since the volume and a couple of the soft buttons are starting to wear out.

I've set up the 650 and 700 for a few of my friends lately and I'm really liking them. I much prefer the soft buttons next to the screen instead of the touchscreen like the One. I'm a bit worried about the number of devices though. I can make it work fine in my bedroom and living room where I only have 3-4 devices, but not in my theater room where I have about 12. I have heard that you might be able to trick the 700 into working with more devices by using the stand alone software and setting up a One first, and then using that profile to transfer over to the 700. I haven't tried this yet though.

I'd love to see them come out with an 800 that had the layout of the 700 with six or eight soft buttons by the screen (stay away from the touchscreen from the One/900), and allowed 10-12 devices. Maybe priced around $150 MSRP.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Beerstalker said:


> I'm a big Harmony fan myself. I've got Harmony Ones in my theater room and living room and a 880 in the bedroom. I'm about to replace the 880 with a 700 since the volume and a couple of the soft buttons are starting to wear out.
> 
> I've set up the 650 and 700 for a few of my friends lately and I'm really liking them. I much prefer the soft buttons next to the screen instead of the touchscreen like the One. I'm a bit worried about the number of devices though. I can make it work fine in my bedroom and living room where I only have 3-4 devices, but not in my theater room where I have about 12. I have heard that you might be able to trick the 700 into working with more devices by using the stand alone software and setting up a One first, and then using that profile to transfer over to the 700. I haven't tried this yet though.
> 
> I'd love to see them come out with an 800 that had the layout of the 700 with six or eight soft buttons by the screen (stay away from the touchscreen from the One/900), and allowed 10-12 devices. Maybe priced around $150 MSRP.


I like the soft-touch buttons too. I really like the Harmony 360 (for the xbox) Albeit I don't own an Xbox it seems like a cool remote. But I've read Harmony remotes seem to have the same issue (as you said) of the buttons wearing out. My RF-20 is doing this and it's under a year old. I like the One too. But I need atleast 8 devices. That is a cool trick about the Logitech cloning. I just don't want to spend $200+ just to do learning. I almost think Logitech Harmony is kinda like BMW or Ferrari cars. You pay mostly for the name and heritage vs the car its self. I think Harmony is the same. I DO like that the Harmony site shows ALL of my devices including my window AC unit. But I can just learn if needed (what I did up to now) the AC unit.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Once you get one you'll realize that they really are more than just a learning remote, and they are worth the cost (especially the new 650 and 700, which are very reasonably priced). I always though they were overpriced and unnecessary until I bought one for my sister and her husband for Christmas one year and set it up for them. Afterward I was sold and I went and bought one for myself the next week. I haven't regretted it at all since. I was lucky enough to get most of my Harmony Ones and 880s at a discount through work. Although now Logitech appears to have taken down their partner website so I can't order them through there anymore, and I can't get anyone at work to get me an answer on how we can still get our discount (our work discount website still points to the old Logitech partner website that is gone).

As far as buttons wearing out, yes it does happen, but it has taken a long time. My 880 that is having issues has been in use for about 6 years now I think. And for the first 3 or 4 years it was my main remote until I got my One and moved the 880 to the bedroom. It has been through a lot of use and abuse in that time.

If some of your devices are pretty simple like your AC unit you can get around the device limit by learning those commands to another device. For example I have taught the remote codes for my fan and lights under my TV device. So I can easily add those controls to any activity using my TV without having to actually have those devices on my remote.

As far as the Macros screwing stuff up when switching activities it really shouldn't happen once you get everything set up right. It might take a bit of tweaking to get it set up right and minimizing the timing delays etc. Oce it's dont though it is pretty seamless. The biggest thing to remember though is not to let anyone use the original remotes, or turn anything on or off using the buttons on the devices as that will screw things up. After I get my Harmony remote set up I put the other remotes away in a tote in the basement so nobody can try using them. I think I've only had to go get a remote out of that tote once or twice after having put it in there, and I think one of those times was because I needed to change the IR codeset I was using on a device and I needed to change it on the factory remote and then use the factory remote to show the Harmony remote what alternative codeset to use.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm a harmony "lifer." My first was the 880 and now I've bought several for myself and family and friends. I love the idea that you can do all your customization online and then just update the remote. It really fits my lifestyle. 

Now, if they just let you have more than one remote per account...


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Now, if they just let you have more than one remote per account...


That would be nice, but I've figured out a pretty simple way around it for now. I just use one login with different add ons to show which room, then I use the same password for each.

For example:

Beerstalker_LR - Living Room remote
Beerstalker_TR - Theater Room remote
Beerstalker_MB - Master Bedroom remote

etc. It seems to be working out pretty well for me so far (and no those aren't my real logins so you don't need to warn me about somebody hacking them).


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Actually, I'm going to sell my Harmony One - I greatly prefer the D* remote.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Harmony seems to have a good track record. I'm just really on the fence for the One and Xsight .


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I had really high hopes for the XSight when I first saw it at CES. They were very late to market, the programming experience was worse than the Harmony, and the remote is very large. I've seen in on clearance for $60 in several places. If it's really what you want, then look around, you'll probably find a great deal.


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

I have the xsight color and it's a great remote. No problems and the macros are great. You can program spacing between each command depending on how quick your receiver is. The buttons are perfect and they never seem to wear out. The only 2 problems I've had are that when you drop the remote more than 3 feet or so to the ground, it restarts. The other one is that I feel the battery life could be greater. They may have newer models out now with rechargeable batteries but 4 years ago when I got mine they did not. I am sure the the xsight touch is just as great of a remote too.

Kevin


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I had the Harmony 880, but the charging cradle wouldn't make good contact with the remote. So I got the Harmony One, its cradle works much better. My major fault with the H One is that it take too long to wake up. You have to either pick it up so that the sensor wakes it up or by pressing a button. I like to have the remote sitting on the arm of the chair and just press a button. But, you have to press the button twice, once to get its attention and then again to do what you want. You can press as many buttons as you want once the unit is active. I've set it to 20s before going into sleep mode. I know the sleep mode is there to concern the battery, but this is an annoyance.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

xmguy said:


> I was looking at the Harmony 650, 700 and One (900 albeit RF is WAY, WAY, WAY too expensive!). The thing is the Harmony remotes are TOO simple in the way they work. Using the "Activities" or Macros. I've used Macros on many remotes before. Never turns out well. If I had a macro set to (like harmony), Watch TV, if the TV was on and all I wanted was to change inputs it would turn the TV off. Since Macros have no 2 way link between the remote and the device they are controlling, the remote doesn't know the state of the device in question. It seems like more trouble than it's worth. I like the Harmony One really on Amazon. But if the only way to turn devices on and off and change inputs, etc is by these Macros. Count me out.


With the Harmonys, you can select the Device mode and control them just like you were using separate remotes (the HELP function can also help get things re-synchronized). However, if you only use the Harmony, it does a very good job of remembering the state of all devices. The IR beamwidth is quite broad, so pointing hasn't been an issue for me.


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## photostudent (Nov 8, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Actually, I'm going to sell my Harmony One - I greatly prefer the D* remote.


I am with you. I have a drawer full of universal remotes that are obsolete. Nothing works as well as an OEM remote. I do use a Harmony to switch functions. A couple remotes sitting on the coffee table may offend an interior decorator but not me.


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## Kevin872 (Aug 25, 2007)

I had a Harmony 880 for a couple years, and like many others, buttons slowly stopped working. BUT, it was an awesome remote. My only complaint was that I had to always look at it when using it because the buttons didn't have much distinction amongst them. I recently replaced the 880 with a One, and overall I think I like the One better than the 880 (better button distinction and feel) although I have noticed that the battery seems to need charging more often.

I wouldn't let the "macro" based aspect of the Harmony remotes put you off. As has been said above, they do an excellent job of remembering the state of all devices, so long as you ONLY use the Harmony remote. I have many activities setup: DirecTV, DVD, Wii, Radio, PC and also have the same activities but using my receiver for audio rather than the TV (two activities for each: TV sound and 5.1 stereo sound). When using the receiver, the TV audio is automatically muted and then restored if switching back to TV audio. It has never missed a beat, other than occasional issues with IR interference from the LCD TV when first powered on (but this also affects other remotes). My solution is to always start and end with the DirecTV activity so that the TV doesn't need to change inputs when first starting up. After 30 seconds or so I can switch to something else without the IR interference. This is an issue with many LCD TVs though and not the Harmony.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

xmguy said:


> The URC-200 and the current RF-20 are both made by UEI. Matter of fact all the remotes I've had are either One-For-All or Radio-Shack UEI branded remotes. I like the JP1. I've never used it however. Not sure if I could use it on a non-serial port computer.


You are mistaken about the URC-200 and RF-20. They are not made by UEI, but by Universal Remote Control, Inc. It's confusing because both URC and UEI have remotes with the letters "URC" in some of their model numbers. A dead giveaway is that all UEI remotes use 9xx codes for programming and share all the same device codes (same codes as DirecTV remotes). URC remotes are programmed differently and use completely different device codes. UEI, not URC, makes One-For-All, Radio Shack, Xsight or DirecTV remotes. Actually, UEI stopped making remotes for radio shack a few years ago. URC remotes cannot be programmed via JP1.

Current JP1 interfaces are all USB and work on all the major OS's (Win, Mac, Linux, etc.).


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

photostudent said:


> I am with you. I have a drawer full of universal remotes that are obsolete. Nothing works as well as an OEM remote. I do use a Harmony to switch functions. A couple remotes sitting on the coffee table may offend an interior decorator but not me.


I highly disagree with you here. My Harmony remotes work as good if not better than the OEM remotes. Many times the harmony remote gives me access to commands that the OEM remote doesn't even have on it like discreet input commands, discreet power commands, etc. If you don't like your Harmony remote, it most likely isn't set up that well. It does take a bit more tweaking then some poeple are willing to put into them. Some of the really helpful things to do are to decrease the number of repeats, and the inter device delays. Doing so will really speed up the remote if your major issue is speed.


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## DallasFlier (Oct 24, 2011)

Beerstalker said:


> I highly disagree with you here. My Harmony remotes work as good if not better than the OEM remotes. Many times the harmony remote gives me access to commands that the OEM remote doesn't even have on it like discreet input commands, discreet power commands, etc. If you don't like your Harmony remote, it most likely isn't set up that well. It does take a bit more tweaking then some poeple are willing to put into them. Some of the really helpful things to do are to decrease the number of repeats, and the inter device delays. Doing so will really speed up the remote if your major issue is speed.


Agreed - several good points there. Also, to emphasize from another "negative" the OP was worried about - I had a TiVo and cable box both in the main theater room. My "Watch TV" activity favored the TiVo, but when both tuners were in use recording, and I wanted to watch something ese - or for VOD - I'd switch TV inputs to use the cable box, by just hitting the "Devices" button on the Harmony One, which then provided all the individual commands for any individual device you want to control. Switch the input, and then return to the activity - pretty simple.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

DallasFlier said:


> Agreed - several good points there. Also, to emphasize from another "negative" the OP was worried about - I had a TiVo and cable box both in the main theater room. My "Watch TV" activity favored the TiVo, but when both tuners were in use recording, and I wanted to watch something ese - or for VOD - I'd switch TV inputs to use the cable box, by just hitting the "Devices" button on the Harmony One, which then provided all the individual commands for any individual device you want to control. Switch the input, and then return to the activity - pretty simple.


In your case I would have set it up as two activities. One for Watch Tivo, and one for Watch Cable. Then you could easily switch back and forth and control everything in each activity without messing with device modes.

Once you have a Harmony remote set up well you hardly ever have to go into device mode for anything. I can't tell you the last time I had to go into device mode on one of my Harmony remotes.


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## DallasFlier (Oct 24, 2011)

Beerstalker said:


> In your case I would have set it up as two activities. One for Watch Tivo, and one for Watch Cable. Then you could easily switch back and forth and control everything in each activity without messing with device modes.
> 
> Once you have a Harmony remote set up well you hardly ever have to go into device mode for anything. I can't tell you the last time I had to go into device mode on one of my Harmony remotes.


Interesting thought - and one I'll likely ponder further, as I think I'm going to add a H25 to the HR24 in my media center. I really like the idea of integrating both into a single activity - you know, 3 tuners, watch live with pause/replay, program both HR24's in the house (from the H25) but will have to see if I can do all that in a single activity without dropping into device mode.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I ended up buying the Harmony 700 AND the Xsight 18 both. I plan to test them both out. See what works better. Then return the one that I don't want. The Harmony One was just WAY to expensive.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

xmguy said:


> I ended up buying the Harmony 700 AND the Xsight 18 both. I plan to test them both out. See what works better. Then return the one that I don't want. The Harmony One was just WAY to expensive.


Good plan. One word of advice on the 700: you get way more functionality if you don't use myharmony.com and use the standalone software or members.harmonyremote.com instead. Myharmony does give you a couple more devices, but no sequences, backlight adjustment, no more than 5 activities, no additional commands can be added to your activities, and repeats and delays cannot be adjusted.

Please post back with your comparison.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I got the Xsight 18 in today. Got to say. I've fallen in love. LOL! It can control SO much of my remote based devices. Using the (now not slow) web site was a breeze. I really like it. Sadly my older RF Extender will not work. It's not strong enough. I have to get within a few inches of the extender for it to work. Not sure the the one made for the Xsight will be any better. But even though the Harmony 700 is still on it's way my mind is fairly made up. I love the DirecTV RF control. That is the best feature.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Glad to hear it. FWIW, I got at least 40' range from my Xsight RF extender. I never tried farther than that. But they're hard to find these days. I searched recently and saw a few available from Dell and ebay. I've also seen reports that Next Generation bases work with Xsight, but I've not tried that myself.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mdavej said:


> Glad to hear it. FWIW, I got at least 40' range from my Xsight RF extender. I never tried farther than that. But they're hard to find these days. I searched recently and saw a few available from Dell and ebay. I've also seen reports that Next Generation bases work with Xsight, but I've not tried that myself.


I don't know if those next gen ones would work since the Xsight uses a proprietary rechargeable battery.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

xmguy said:


> I don't know if those next gen ones would work since the Xsight uses a proprietary rechargeable battery.


I'm just talking about using the base. It's been reported HERE that the RF transmitter built into the Xsight will work directly with a 433MHz Next Gen base without using the battery.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mdavej said:


> I'm just talking about using the base. It's been reported HERE that the RF transmitter built into the Xsight will work directly with a 433MHz Next Gen base without using the battery.


Ahh! I was able to get the AR Extender for about $60. Less than some were selling for.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I've recorded a (personal) review of the Xsight


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## Skarzon (Oct 2, 2006)

Other than range and the ability to transmit through walls, what are the benefits of using RF?


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Skarzon said:


> Other than range and the ability to transmit through walls, what are the benefits of using RF?


No aiming required and no problems with IR noise from certain TVs.

I only use RF because my DVR is in a different room than my TV. When they are in the same room and line of sight, I use IR.

The problem is DirecTV only works in IR or RF mode, not both at the same time. So if you need RF in one room, you're forced to use RF in all rooms, because IR no longer works.


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## Skarzon (Oct 2, 2006)

mdavej said:


> No aiming required and no problems with IR noise from certain TVs.
> 
> I only use RF because my DVR is in a different room than my TV. When they are in the same room and line of sight, I use IR.
> 
> The problem is DirecTV only works in IR or RF mode, not both at the same time. So if you need RF in one room, you're forced to use RF in all rooms, because IR no longer works.


Makes sense, thanks for the clarification! Was just wondering if I was missing some cool features...


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## reber1b (Jun 14, 2007)

xmguy said:


> Harmony seems to have a good track record. I'm just really on the fence for the One and Xsight .


Having had several remotes already, you probably know what you most often use them for. I recently purchased a Harmony 650, and though I recognize its attraction to some users, it does not suit my purposes at all. The 650 is built on the principal that every user is usually going to want to to do the things that the Harmony is good at -- what Logitech calls "Activities. I see very little value in them since I have nine devices(the 650 is limited to five), and prefer to turn them on and off, and set them at my whim, and I very rarely use the same combination of devices with any repetition. On the other hand, I love macros, but find that the 650 is very limited in its ability to perform them. One other feature of the 650, that is considered by most users to be attractive, is the use of a screen to select devices and activities. I, on the other hand, prefer buttons because I don't have to put my reading glasses on to read them in a darkened room, and after a few weeks of use, I know where they are by feel.

As I said previously, I'm not knocking the Harmony 650, I'm just saying it is not the remote that meets my criteria.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

^^^ the OP ended up with the Xsight and is happy with its RF, 18 device capacity and no macro limits.

Harmony is fine for basic needs and dirt simple to program. But you hit a wall pretty quickly when you start pushing the envelope, like wanting it to do more than one thing when you press a button. As you said, harmony macro capability is very limited, and its state tracking fails when other remotes are involved. 

My parents love the harmony I got them because it works fine in their situation, and I can program it for them in just a few minutes from hundreds of miles away. What I don't like is that harmony used to have very capable remotes, but all the new models have been crippled in major ways. Instead of making a few small improvements which would have made them unbeatable, they started purging major features. So I won't patronize them unless they start putting back all the advanced features they took out. A lot of people still love harmony in spite of this, but I think it's mainly because they don't know what they're missing. Any universal remote that can't do a simple macro shouldn't have the right to call itself a universal remote.


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## reber1b (Jun 14, 2007)

mdavej said:


> ^^^ the OP ended up with the Xsight and is happy with its RF, 18 device capacity and no macro limits.
> 
> I'm gonna check it out today -- sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll give the Harmony remote to my daughter.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah. The learning memory is massive too. I was able to learn an entire second (descrete) DirecTV remote. The website said I'd barely used 1 or 2 % of the total memory. The last remote I had would've filled up by then. Also because I wanted to use the Xsight to control 2 directv receivers with 1 remote. I wanted to use IR on one and RF on the other. For some reason even though I had set both receivers up for IR and RF respectively. The remote wanted to control BOTH units in RF. The only way was to set the receivers in IR and set the second receiver to a second code within directv ui to support a second code. Programmed the second remote as same. Then manually learned all the needed commands from the second receiver remote to the Xsight. When linked online left info blank. Didn't want the remote even thinking it was directv or it would mess up and not work again. I had to stop using RF on my first receiver however because I have a Hava ( slingbox) type device set to control the first receiver on IR. So RF would not work for it. However I've bought the RF extender that will work same and solve all the issues. Macros as well. Overall I think it's a real good remote. For $60 it's a steal!

To add. I also love how without the need of JP1 or learning. The website knew commands for like my Vizio TV that even my remote would not control. Like my Vizio remote has a general HDMI button to cycle between the 3 inputs of HDMI but the UEI website had a unique code to set to HDMI 1 directly without needing to go though the 3 HDMI inputs.


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