# Issue with flashing to black (HR44/700)



## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

Hey all,

So here's my setup

HR44/700 -> Pioneer VSX-819 AVR -> Vizio E700i-B3 70".

Powered by a power conditioner / battery backup unit. SWM is also on a battery backup (along with my other basement equipment, networking equipment, etc.)

I began having this issue a couple of weeks ago; especially bad on Sunday, where every few minutes the screen would flash to black; but the audio would continue. Then the image would come back (Remember audio is coming through the AVR).

The issue does NOT happen when I'm connected directly to the TV.

So sounds like the AVR is to blame right? Well, it doesn't happen with ANY other devices, including HDCP enabled devices (like streaming boxes, my PS4 playing protected content, etc.) And yes, I've tried different HDMI cables, and different inputs on the AVR, etc. And I've been hearing that this has happened before with DirecTV DVR's (The issue of it not working well with AVR's, including the flash to black issue). 

Any thoughts? I'm on 0x93d. Never had this issue before. And it just boggles my mind that it has NEVER happened with any other device, but happens consistently with my HR44 when it feeds through the AVR.

Thanks!



-John


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Try setting your HR44 to receive only 720p
I know this sounds strange, buy my old lovely HR34 had the exact same issue, but only when in 1080i.

Just to eliminate some possibilities. 
Report back.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Does this issue occur on several channels or just one? Most AVRs have HDMI Pass Through. Try leaving your AVR off and see if the issue persists.


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## wxguy (Feb 17, 2008)

Mine has done it forever it seems. I presumed the box and TV lost the HDMI handshake signal since it always returns after a few seconds. Doesn't seem to be program based since rewind and replay goes perfectly through the part that blacked out. Not likely the AVR since other devices play without fault when using the AVR to switch inputs. I think it happened before I got a genie box, but that was over a year ago and memory fades when it comes to what irritated me at the time.


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## b52pooh (Mar 10, 2011)

Any chance there is a software update available for your AVR?


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

MysteryMan said:


> Does this issue occur on several channels or just one? Most AVRs have HDMI Pass Through. Try leaving your AVR off and see if the issue persists.


It occurs all the time. Live TV, recorded programs, you name it. Even once when I was in the settings menu; flashed to black. Image returned after a second or two.



damondlt said:


> Try setting your HR44 to receive only 720p
> I know this sounds strange, buy my old lovely HR34 had the exact same issue, but only when in 1080i.
> 
> Just to eliminate some possibilities.
> Report back.


I'll try that!



b52pooh said:


> Any chance there is a software update available for your AVR?


Nope. No firmware updates were ever released for it that I can see. Though it worked fine for months.


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

Here's a video of the issue if it'll help. 

http://youtu.be/h7Za3l9rYVo

Ignore the cable draped over the cabinet, I bought a brand new high speed HDMI cable to try and absolutely make sure it wasn't a cable issue. It's still occurring with the new cable.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Have you tried bypassing the AVR?


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

Yep. As I said in the OP the issue doesn't happen when bypassing the AVR. But it also doesn't happen on any other device, including wii, PS4, streaming box, etc. 1080p, HDCP protected content, you name it runs just fine. direcTV is the only source that does this (regardless of which HDMI Port it's connected to)


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Romans5.8 said:


> Here's a video of the issue if it'll help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen this with my HR44-200 when watching Football on my local FOX channel. Screen flashes black like in your video, audio drops on my AVR but it's discrete light stays lit. Picture returns and is followed by a momentary loss of audio. Only happens on that channel and only when they are broadcasting a Football game and only during the game and not when commercials are being shown which leads me to believe they are having technical issues with their feed. I have Sunday Ticket and do not experience the issue when watching games on other FOX channels. That said, is there any pressure on the HDMI cable going from your HR44-70 to your AVR? The HDMI port on my HR44-200 is very sensitive. The slightest touch or movement of the HDMI cable connected to my HR44-200 causes signal loss.


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

This is happening on all channels. I guess at this point my only recourse is to see if DirecTV will send me a new Genie; though I'm concerned it might be a software issue.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Romans5.8 said:


> This is happening on all channels. I guess at this point my only recourse is to see if DirecTV will send me a new Genie; though I'm concerned it might be a software issue.


Nothing to lose.
I certainly would not put up with that. We pay way too much money every month to look at a picture that does what your is doing.


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

jimmie57 said:


> Nothing to lose.
> I certainly would not put up with that. We pay way too much money every month to look at a picture that does what your is doing.


I just hope they don't blame my AVR and refuse to replace the genie (since it doesn't happen when plugged directly into the TV). Which might make sense; except it's not happening on any other input. I've heard though that Genie's are notoriously finicky when passing through other devices (Xbox One's, HDMI switches, AVR's, etc.)


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Romans5.8 said:


> I just hope they don't blame my AVR and refuse to replace the genie (since it doesn't happen when plugged directly into the TV). Which might make sense; except it's not happening on any other input. I've heard though that Genie's are notoriously finicky when passing through other devices (Xbox One's, HDMI switches, AVR's, etc.)


Can you hook all items to the AVR ( except the HR44 ) and run the HDMI to the TV from there ?
Then run an HDMI from the HR44 to the TV and run an Optical cable from the HR44 to the AVR for it's sound ?
Will that work for you if it stops the flashing ?


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

jimmie57 said:


> Can you hook all items to the AVR ( except the HR44 ) and run the HDMI to the TV from there ?
> Then run an HDMI from the HR44 to the TV and run an Optical cable from the HR44 to the AVR for it's sound ?
> Will that work for you if it stops the flashing ?


If I need to, I could. It's be a huge pain in the rear, though. Since the TV is wall mounted and the HDMI is run through the wall, so it would just be a pain. But not undoable.

Though, I would really love for it to work correctly! Then I need to switch inputs on two devices, etc. None of this is the end of the world; but hey, I pay a lot every month and it ought to work right!


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Even if you can get Directv to exchange the Genie, I doubt it will help. Despite the fact that it's the only device you have issue with, it seems clear the issue is actually with the Pioneer, probably HDCP as you said in your first post.


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

studechip said:


> Even if you can get Directv to exchange the Genie, I doubt it will help. Despite the fact that it's the only device you have issue with, it seems clear the issue is actually with the Pioneer, probably HDCP as you said in your first post.


Why would it work fine for months then and only start this behavior now? Would a failing AVR exhibit symptoms like this with only one device? (And, to be clear, the streaming box and PS4 use HDCP as well, so even with protected content they run fine). And I'm genuinely asking that. If I have to replace my AVR, then I have to replace my AVR. But if the issue is DirecTV and not my AVR; then I sure as heck don't want to replace it!

Guess I'm just trying to be thorough. Especially when I asked on another forum (more AV related), they sort of had the consensus that this was really common (DirecTV not behaving well with AVR's), so I figured I'd ask over here since you all seem to be the experts on DirecTV boxes!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Romans5.8 said:


> If I need to, I could. It's be a huge pain in the rear, though. Since the TV is wall mounted and the HDMI is run through the wall, so it would just be a pain. But not undoable.
> 
> Though, I would really love for it to work correctly! Then I need to switch inputs on two devices, etc. None of this is the end of the world; but hey, I pay a lot every month and it ought to work right!


Trouble shooting is always a pain in the rear. If you try jimmie57's suggestion and it works it will have identified the cause of your issue.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Romans5.8 said:


> If I need to, I could. It's be a huge pain in the rear, though. Since the TV is wall mounted and the HDMI is run through the wall, so it would just be a pain. But not undoable.
> 
> Though, I would really love for it to work correctly! Then I need to switch inputs on two devices, etc. None of this is the end of the world; but hey, I pay a lot every month and it ought to work right!


I never think of a set mounted on the wall and the cable ran in the wall. I guess there are more than I realize.

To see if it works for temporary could you just run the new HDMI cable from the HR44 to the TV and not run it in the wall ?


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## TANK (Feb 16, 2003)

If you connect the hdmi directly to your flat screen and just a coax or toslink to the avr for DD. Then if you have no flashing problems ,you have ruled out the genie as the cause of the problem.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I never think of a set mounted on the wall and the cable ran in the wall. I guess there are more than I realize.
> 
> To see if it works for temporary could you just run the new HDMI cable from the HR44 to the TV and not run it in the wall ?


Every time I see a wall mounted TV I really have to wonder if they thought to put a cable in every outlet on the TV and label all of them. I've never seen that, all I've seen is people tearing a wall apart or trying to fish a cable thru the wall to the TV. Seems rather nightmarish to me. Looks nice, but...

Rich


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Rich said:


> Every time I see a wall mounted TV I really have to wonder if they thought to put a cable in every outlet on the TV and label all of them. I've never seen that, all I've seen is people tearing a wall apart or trying to fish a cable thru the wall to the TV. Seems rather nightmarish to me. Looks nice, but...
> 
> Rich


Depends on if it's mounted an interior room wall or exterior (insulated) Wall - Most Flat panels have HDMI inputs on the rear & Side -So doing a test from the Receiver (New Cable) can be done that route draping the cable outside the wall - Interior Wall Easy Straight Shot (for fishing) Exterior wall - When replacing a Cable - Cut the end off the (bad) Cable tape a new one on and pull it thru


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

TANK said:


> If you connect the hdmi directly to your flat screen and just a coax or toslink to the avr for DD. Then if you have no flashing problems ,you have ruled out the genie as the cause of the problem.


This was discussed in the original post. It DOES work when connected directly to the TV. But at the same time, NO other devices have an issue with this AVR; and there are some forum posts "out there" discussing the same sort of issues with Genie boxes and even brand new AVR's (Which is why I brought the question here, to see if there was any solution. Elsewhere they just resolved to use toslink and bypass their AVR). It doesn't make any sense that it would work fine with all other components, but not the genie. But, as I said in the OP, it does work when connected directly to the TV.



Rich said:


> Every time I see a wall mounted TV I really have to wonder if they thought to put a cable in every outlet on the TV and label all of them. I've never seen that, all I've seen is people tearing a wall apart or trying to fish a cable thru the wall to the TV. Seems rather nightmarish to me. Looks nice, but...
> 
> Rich


When gutting the wall I used a brand new sledgehammer so as to not stain the wall. Then I used duct tape to tape the wires in the wall to prevent them from sliding around, and mudded over everything with a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.

Kidding. Actually I do what most people do when they wall mount TV's on interior walls with no insulation, use a passthrough plate and a power inlet. A power inlet allows ROMEX wire to be run from an inlet on the bottom (which plugs into a UPS) and an outlet at the top (which powers the TV). Low voltage cabling is run through the passthrough plates, and ideally (And in my case) CL2 rated (in wall rated) low voltage cabling is used. In the living room, I just have one HDMI cable run to the TV, along with a PlayStation 4 Camera and Wii sensor bar cables running through the passthrough plate, so no labeling. In the bedroom, there are three HDMI cables, and they are labeled (1, 2, and 3). There are 90 degree cables and 90 degree 'joint' couplers that allow for flush mounting a TV even with rear-facing connections. And most flat panels I've owned, especially larger ones, have the inputs in a 'recessed' area to give plenty of room for hookups when mounting flush to a wall. The mount I use also contains a padlocked locking mechanism so without a hacksaw or the key (or maybe taking the studs with you somehow), you're not getting the TV.









Here's the bedroom (the TV was mounted high to allow a good viewing angle when laying in bed, and done with an articulated mount. Genie mini), as you can see, 3 labeled HDMI cables passing through and the same power outlet/inlet system. This was an insulated wall so conduit was installed to pass the HDMI cables through, though honestly there's really no reason we couldn't have just pushed the cables through the sprayed-in insulation. It wouldn't hurt anything. Fished through using a 'fish tape' tool









Here's the living room, with the TV already mounted (ignore the old table covered in tools and parts), again you can see the power inlet in action here, and the audio panel that runs to the speakers by the TV, as well as the IN wall speakers located at the back of the living room. So the AVR connects to the speakers with just a set of short banana plug 'jumpers'. In this case, just a single HDMI passed through. No reason adding toslink will be an issue, either. (And a second HDMI cable). It's just a pain, because the genie ought to work via HDMI. On the AV forum, they mentioned that the issue seems to go away with software updates on the Genie sometimes, so here's to hoping to that. (It seems the issue isn't as common as the other forum made it seem, and they didn't have any solutions either. Most who had the issue over there just bypassed their AVR's. Everything from middle of the road models like mine to thousand dollar Denon units exhibiting this same problem, and only with a DirecTV Genie DVR, not any other device. One suggestion was just that the Genies HDMI port was particularly 'sensitive', which might explain why the same issue ALSO seems to happen when using HDMI switchers, feeding through an Xbox One, etc.)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Romans5.8 said:


> This was discussed in the original post. It DOES work when connected directly to the TV. But at the same time, NO other devices have an issue with this AVR; and there are some forum posts "out there" discussing the same sort of issues with Genie boxes and even brand new AVR's (Which is why I brought the question here, to see if there was any solution. Elsewhere they just resolved to use toslink and bypass their AVR). It doesn't make any sense that it would work fine with all other components, but not the genie. But, as I said in the OP, it does work when connected directly to the TV.
> 
> When gutting the wall I used a brand new sledgehammer so as to not stain the wall. Then I used duct tape to tape the wires in the wall to prevent them from sliding around, and mudded over everything with a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.
> 
> ...


Very neat work. I'm almost terminally lazy, so I still wouldn't do it, but that's a really nice job you did!

Rich


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## Romans5.8 (Dec 12, 2014)

Thanks Rich!

The passthrough and power inlet/outlet don't match the ivory faceplates elsewhere but you don't see them (up top, covered by the TV. Down below, covered by TV stands). Having done this, I don't think I'd do it any other way. Things are clean, I can use any sort of TV stand or cabinet I want regardless of size or weight bearing capability (since the TV isn't on it!), although people usually comment that the master bedroom TV, which is a little 40" panel mounted high up on the wall, makes it sort of look like a hospital room LOL. And really, it wasn't that much work. Especially on un-insulated interior walls where it's as simple as cutting a square opening with a drywall saw, installing the boxes, and dropping the cables through. Most of the work was planning and prep beforehand, measuring everything so that the TV was in the right position. (Placing the living room TV so that the center of the TV is at the exact same level as my eyes when sitting on the couch; and that it's in the right position in relation to the fireplace and master bedroom door)

Thankfully, the rear speakers were already installed; they were put there when the house was built. (An ideal setup here would use floorstanding front speakers. I just don't have any, I moved from a place with a much smaller living room so those sattelites are all I needed). Now mounting those in the wall and running the cables through to that audio plate would've been an all-day job. But, luckily, that was done before the drywall was even on the house 10 years ago when it was built!

They also put Cat5e cabling in all the walls and every room has at least 1 (if not 2 or 3) Ethernet jacks. Score! Actually, the Ethernet jack is located underneath the sat coax there on the living room shot. The audio plate was originally a phone jack (who uses THOSE anymore!?) so another time saver was just chucking that phone jack in the trash and installing the audio plate where it was, running all of the speaker cables into it's PVC box.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I guess I'll never get to live in a house that I have built. I'd wire the unfinished house the way they should be wired. Laziness aside. But that's never gonna happen.

Rich


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## Bama J (Mar 14, 2011)

Romans 5.8,
I am having the same issue. Started about a month or so ago. I've only had my Genie setup for about 4 months. I'm curious, what is the make/model of your AVR and TV set? I am going to a Pioneer VSX-1022K, then out to a Vizio E701-A3.


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## eharvill (Dec 2, 2007)

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents here as well. Just started having similar issues recently (last couple weeks maybe), but not nearly as bad. HR34/700 (18 months old) -> Denon AVR590 (2009) -> Sharp Aquos 52d64u (2007 model).

So far I've only noticed a flicker of the screen every 10-15 seconds, not a full fade to black as in the OP's video. It also only seems to occur while watching recorded content. If I power off the TV and HR34 it goes away. I'll need to pay closer attention to what content I am watching and what components I power cycle going forward to have better data points.

I've been secretly hoping it was an issue with the TV so I could convince my wife we need to buy a new TV.


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## WearItOut (Jul 31, 2018)

Romans5.8 said:


> This was discussed in the original post. It DOES work when connected directly to the TV. But at the same time, NO other devices have an issue with this AVR; and there are some forum posts "out there" discussing the same sort of issues with Genie boxes and even brand new AVR's (Which is why I brought the question here, to see if there was any solution. Elsewhere they just resolved to use toslink and bypass their AVR). It doesn't make any sense that it would work fine with all other components, but not the genie. But, as I said in the OP, it does work when connected directly to the TV.
> 
> When gutting the wall I used a brand new sledgehammer so as to not stain the wall. Then I used duct tape to tape the wires in the wall to prevent them from sliding around, and mudded over everything with a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.
> 
> ...


Romans,
(Like your name BTW),, and your wiring looks great too. I do mine the same way. So I realize this is very old,,, but what did you end up doing to resolve your issue???

Thanks,
Mike


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