# Why can't consumers get C-Band anymore?



## Bigg

Why are most channels blocked for consumers with C-Band dishes? Rainier satellite has a select few channels, but most of the popular channels are not available. It would be ideal to be able to receive the original feeds without re-compression, yet it's not available. What gives?


----------



## P Smith

What kind of blocking they're using ?


----------



## James Long

Bigg said:


> Why are most channels blocked for consumers with C-Band dishes? Rainier satellite has a select few channels, but most of the popular channels are not available. It would be ideal to be able to receive the original feeds without re-compression, yet it's not available. What gives?


Subscription channels like to protect their content. They are under no obligation to offer customers a direct subscription or to offer a subscription through any specific provider. Those "blocked" feeds are intended for the cable and satellite providers who have contracts to deliver their service. If Rainier or another distributor can work out a deal the channels will become available to subscribers - until then end users will need to find other distribution channels (cable, satellite, streaming).


----------



## RBA

Supply and demand is also a big part of the equation. Cband equipment is too expensive with too low a volume to reduce the cost. When C band was popular it required a $1500-3000 investment and a 7 1/2 ft or larger dish, then 18" dishes and free systems put the nail in C-bands coffin.


----------



## P Smith

not yet, a lot of C-band sats/programs in Europe and Latin America, so 3.5M [12'] dish is dandy here


----------



## Bigg

James Long said:


> Subscription channels like to protect their content. They are under no obligation to offer customers a direct subscription or to offer a subscription through any specific provider. Those "blocked" feeds are intended for the cable and satellite providers who have contracts to deliver their service. If Rainier or another distributor can work out a deal the channels will become available to subscribers - until then end users will need to find other distribution channels (cable, satellite, streaming).


Well, yes. I would expect strong encryption/protection to be a part of any subscription service. I wonder why more channels don't go through Rainier to make a complete package?

Or will a vMVPD come along and offer full-bitrate non-re-compressed streaming for an extra fee? With the bandwidth available now, it's not crazy to think that streaming 15-20mbps from a live tv stream wouldn't be that hard.


----------



## James Long

Perhaps they do not like Rainier's advertising practice of labeling all of their HD channels as "Ultimate HD"? Posing the question "do you have a 4K TV" then listing channels as "Ultimate HD" is very misleading. I would not want to be associated with such a company. (UHD is a 4K format - the channels labeled are not transmitted in 4K. Perhaps they are referring to "non-re-compressed" HD as the ultimate a subscriber can get, but words have meaning and "Ultimate HD" should not be used for a non-4K format.)

As stated, the providers are under no obligation to deal with Rainier. Perhaps more will - but big dish satellite is not the direction that the industry is going.


----------



## Bigg

James Long said:


> As stated, the providers are under no obligation to deal with Rainier. Perhaps more will - but big dish satellite is not the direction that the industry is going.


True, it's just unfortunate that they won't sell through Rainier or any other company that might get into the C-Band market. I've heard that the original feeds are gorgeous before MVPDs compress the crap out of them, and right now the only provider passing them directly through is Google Fiber TV in the markets that they have managed IPTV. I didn't see anything obvious about 4k on their site other than a coax cable, which of course is nonsense, as RG-59 from 30 years ago can carry 4k if it's modulated the right way. It would look very nice on a 4k TV though.

Maybe they don't want to be offering a la carte channels on C-band which might anger MVPDs and vMVPDs where the big broadcasters are forcing 20 channels of garbage down the MVPD's throat for one channel they need? It would have to be more of a principle thing though, as it's not like BUDs are going to magically take away the entire cable/DBS market.


----------



## dreadlk

RBA said:


> Supply and demand is also a big part of the equation. Cband equipment is too expensive with too low a volume to reduce the cost. When C band was popular it required a $1500-3000 investment and a 7 1/2 ft or larger dish, then 18" dishes and free systems put the nail in C-bands coffin.


Oh if it was just as simple as that! I was in the C-Band business from 1979 until 1999. Your explanation explains only part of the reason but has more to do with the explosive growth of small dishes into the city areas in the latter years.

A Lot of reasons behind why C-Band died had to do with Echostar and our good old friend Charley. I knew a lot of the guys at the top of the food chain back then because I purchased a lot of equipment. I only write this so that if this post lives on through this forum or the Way back machine etc. people will know that a lot of greed and deliberate sabotage sank C-Band. If you think it was just a dish size issue you will still find thousands of homes still have big C-Band dishes up for years after CBand died. You would think that people would have taken them down immediately if the thing was so offensive. It was not the rush for a smaller dish that killed CBand, after all most rural people which made up the mass of the customer base had no issues with space or even the looks of the dish.

C-Band was killed in a very deliberate fashion by using the legal system and corporate handshaking to basically kill the programming content access which at the time was really under no single umbrella and therefore equipment and programming was available through many outlets. I think we had about 5 million owners at the peak and this was a Pie that Dishnet and DTV could not resist trying to slice up in order to get a foot hold in the market. And slice they did until nothing was left.

Anyway i am not going to go into specifics for legal reasons but had C-Band survived it probably would be a major contender for all the current providers because it was exactly what people are looking for today, which is the ultimate cord cutting system.
Buy and own a receiver that is cheap or expensive, your choice! You can deal and haggle with multiple programming providers.
You can add individual stations or packages. Yep at one time that all existed but how do you make that into a multi billion dollar industry for just a few companies? You can't, so you kill it.


----------



## James Long

Setting aside the conspiracies ... Content owners want to be paid. They still do. While the industry eventually hacked together a system where content could be encrypted and protected, getting paid was a problem with early "big dish" distribution. Perhaps you do not agree with copyright laws and the supreme court decisions protecting copyright. The major content owners did not and do not uplink their content for individual home viewing. Those uplinks were intended to distribute their channels to cable systems who paid for the right to redistribute the content.

DBS grew and thrived for the same reason why streaming is growing today. It was easier.

"Big dish" required work. The "piece it together using various equipment" was a curse. I could run through the list of faults with C-Band. It starts with different decryption equipment needed for different channels, channels being spread out on satellites where the dish had to move to change channels, limits on how many channels could be watched simultaneously and needing to pay various providers. "Big Dish" adjusted, mainly to make things cheaper for their big customers - the cable companies. Channels were moved around to the point where a non-motorized dish could receive a decent lineup. But we also saw four degree spacing change to two degrees and expansion in to the Ku band requiring more equipment and better dishes. We also saw homes move from having a single TV to having multiple TVs.

Then DBS came along ... small, easy to self install dishes that received "all the channels" from one satellite. Multiple receivers could be added to support receiving multiple channels at the same time. Home satellite service moved from the hobbyist level to the average consumer level. When the satellites filled the industry figured out how to provide "all the channels" from two orbital locations (without motors or choosing which bank of channels multiple TVs could watch). DISH now supports up to four orbital locations on one dish, DIRECTV has five on one dish (plus reverse band).

Imagine the uproar among current DBS users if you told them they could only receive one channel at a time. Or that they would need to coordinate their viewing so that their second, third, fourth, etc. receiver would be viewing channels from the same satellite as the primary receiver. Sorry Timmy, but I'm watching sports on G1 ... you'll have to wait to watch cartoons on G3. And even in single TV homes (one channel received at a time? does that exist in 2018?) tell DBS users that they will need to wait 30-60 seconds to change channel and hope that the motor on the dish works.

DBS is simply a better system for the average consumer than "big dish" systems. It took a while for DBS to grow the market and become profitable. But it didn't need a conspiracy to have consumers choose the easier path.


----------



## Nick

Where is the _'beating a dead horse' _smilie when we need it?


----------



## P Smith

it's here


----------



## Mark Holtz

Sigh.... I remember watching _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ and _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_ during first-run when it was being fed to the stations via satellite for airing the following week. That time is long past.


----------



## Bigg

James Long said:


> Setting aside the conspiracies ... Content owners want to be paid. They still do. While the industry eventually hacked together a system where content could be encrypted and protected, getting paid was a problem with early "big dish" distribution. Perhaps you do not agree with copyright laws and the supreme court decisions protecting copyright. The major content owners did not and do not uplink their content for individual home viewing. Those uplinks were intended to distribute their channels to cable systems who paid for the right to redistribute the content.
> 
> DBS grew and thrived for the same reason why streaming is growing today. It was easier.
> 
> "Big dish" required work. The "piece it together using various equipment" was a curse. I could run through the list of faults with C-Band. It starts with different decryption equipment needed for different channels, channels being spread out on satellites where the dish had to move to change channels, limits on how many channels could be watched simultaneously and needing to pay various providers. "Big Dish" adjusted, mainly to make things cheaper for their big customers - the cable companies. Channels were moved around to the point where a non-motorized dish could receive a decent lineup. But we also saw four degree spacing change to two degrees and expansion in to the Ku band requiring more equipment and better dishes. We also saw homes move from having a single TV to having multiple TVs.
> 
> Then DBS came along ... small, easy to self install dishes that received "all the channels" from one satellite. Multiple receivers could be added to support receiving multiple channels at the same time. Home satellite service moved from the hobbyist level to the average consumer level. When the satellites filled the industry figured out how to provide "all the channels" from two orbital locations (without motors or choosing which bank of channels multiple TVs could watch). DISH now supports up to four orbital locations on one dish, DIRECTV has five on one dish (plus reverse band).
> 
> Imagine the uproar among current DBS users if you told them they could only receive one channel at a time. Or that they would need to coordinate their viewing so that their second, third, fourth, etc. receiver would be viewing channels from the same satellite as the primary receiver. Sorry Timmy, but I'm watching sports on G1 ... you'll have to wait to watch cartoons on G3. And even in single TV homes (one channel received at a time? does that exist in 2018?) tell DBS users that they will need to wait 30-60 seconds to change channel and hope that the motor on the dish works.
> 
> DBS is simply a better system for the average consumer than "big dish" systems. It took a while for DBS to grow the market and become profitable. But it didn't need a conspiracy to have consumers choose the easier path.


If there was no conspiracy to kill C-band, then why can't Rainier Satellite or others get the ability to offer fully featured packages for the few who do want it today? It's not like allowing end users to pay for access has much marginal cost to the operators of the C-band satellites, as they are there anyway for cable, IPTV, and DBS providers to access the same content.


----------



## James Long

Content owners have the right to sell or not sell their content as they see fit. You might as well be complaining about why you can't see Netflix exclusive content with an Amazon or HBO subscription. Or CBS All Access exclusive content with a Hulu subscription. Or NFL Sunday Ticket with a Xfinity subscription. The content owners have decided that the best way to sell their content is the way each owner has chosen.


----------



## Bigg

James Long said:


> Content owners have the right to sell or not sell their content as they see fit. You might as well be complaining about why you can't see Netflix exclusive content with an Amazon or HBO subscription. Or CBS All Access exclusive content with a Hulu subscription. Or NFL Sunday Ticket with a Xfinity subscription. The content owners have decided that the best way to sell their content is the way each owner has chosen.


C-Band is fundamentally different. C-Band is the master feed that everyone else uses. Why shouldn't consumers who want a 12-foot dish in their backyard be able to subscribe to packages of TV channels with that 12-foot dish? The only reason that Rainier Satellite or others can't get all those channels to behave is a conspiracy to block consumers from directly accessing those feeds. What I don't get is why the content providers are so against consumers having access, as it's not like 12-foot dishes are going to put a big dent in cable companies' or streaming companies' businesses. I guess DirecTV and DISH might be worried about rural customers, but even commercial customers aren't going to build a farm of 12-foot dishes behind their restaurant or hotel to pick up all the channels they need when they can put one little 32" dish in that picks it all up.


----------



## James Long

The content providers want million dollar checks, not thousand dollar checks. Even if Rainier had a complete channel lineup, could they guarantee a million customers would subscribe to each channel?

When the content providers deal with a cable or satellite company they can get millions of subscribers. Tiers and bundles help ensure that there will be a decent payment from each satellite or cable company (or associated cable companies). And when the end user is receiving the same feed as the cable systems there is the additional challenge of authorizing and deauthorizing the channels. The content providers do not need to worry about deauthorizations with their cable/satellite partners since they are less common and carrying channels without a contract carries a larger penalty than going after individual $1 per month subscribers.

Case in point 1: DISH's current dispute with HBO is reportedly not over price but over the number of subscribers. HBO wants DISH to pay for subscribers who do not want HBO. Even with a major provider, HBO is asking for a minimum number of subscriptions.

Case in point 2: A few years ago DISH interpreted contracts in a way that they believed they had rights to carry certain ESPN channels in HD. They did not have an explicit contract and ended up getting sued by ESPN. The point being that the receivers DISH used to capture ESPN's channels were authorized to receive the feeds even though DISH was not authorized by ESPN to retransmit the channels in HD.

Case in point 3: AT&T wanted to start an OTT service but they did not have a large enough customer base (even with UVerse included) to get decent prices. They purchased DIRECTV in part to give them additional leverage when negotiating OTT carriage. The few million people receiving channels via DIRECTV NOW and SlingTV are backed by the 10s of millions of customers receiving channels via satellite.

Can a small company such as Rainier guarantee millions of customers will subscribe?


----------



## Bigg

James Long said:


> The content providers want million dollar checks, not thousand dollar checks. Even if Rainier had a complete channel lineup, could they guarantee a million customers would subscribe to each channel?


What does it matter? There are some cable companies that get content from C-Band, and have <10k customers. I used to subscribe to just such a company, and their C-Band dishes were literally down the street from my apartment. I'd bet Rainier Satellite could get more customers directly on C-Band than the smallest cable companies out there.



> When the content providers deal with a cable or satellite company they can get millions of subscribers. Tiers and bundles help ensure that there will be a decent payment from each satellite or cable company (or associated cable companies). And when the end user is receiving the same feed as the cable systems there is the additional challenge of authorizing and deauthorizing the channels. The content providers do not need to worry about deauthorizations with their cable/satellite partners since they are less common and carrying channels without a contract carries a larger penalty than going after individual $1 per month subscribers.


With modern cryptosystems, it's not really that hard to authorize and deauthorize receivers.



> Case in point 1: DISH's current dispute with HBO is reportedly not over price but over the number of subscribers. HBO wants DISH to pay for subscribers who do not want HBO. Even with a major provider, HBO is asking for a minimum number of subscriptions.
> 
> Case in point 2: A few years ago DISH interpreted contracts in a way that they believed they had rights to carry certain ESPN channels in HD. They did not have an explicit contract and ended up getting sued by ESPN. The point being that the receivers DISH used to capture ESPN's channels were authorized to receive the feeds even though DISH was not authorized by ESPN to retransmit the channels in HD.
> 
> Case in point 3: AT&T wanted to start an OTT service but they did not have a large enough customer base (even with UVerse included) to get decent prices. They purchased DIRECTV in part to give them additional leverage when negotiating OTT carriage. The few million people receiving channels via DIRECTV NOW and SlingTV are backed by the 10s of millions of customers receiving channels via satellite.
> 
> Can a small company such as Rainier guarantee millions of customers will subscribe?


And HBO also sells HBO NOW directly to consumers. Why not also sell access to C-Band? The local yokel muni cable company can't guarantee customers either, that's why they often have cheap internet and crazy expensive TV, so maybe Rainier Satellite wouldn't be that competitive. The business model clearly works, as some channels DO offer their content through Rainier, like the NFL Network, NFL Redzone, and NESN, but a lot of them refuse to do so. Of course, they don't necessarily have to go through Rainier Satellite specifically, they are just the only C-Band provider that I know of.

I hope that one of the streaming providers will eventually offer C-Band streams without re-encoding, but who knows when/if that will happen. It would be pretty awesome to be able to stream the high bitrate MPEG-4 streams unadulterated. It would have to be an extra fee option or something, as it wouldn't scale very well, but for HT enthusiasts and VQ snobs, it would be great. AFAIK, Google Fiber is the only provider today that offers unadulterated C-Band feeds, and it has very limited geographical availability.


----------



## KyL416

Bigg said:


> There are some cable companies that get content from C-Band, and have <10k customers.


Those smaller companies are members of one of the co-ops like the NRTC or the NCTC who negotiate deals in blocks together on behalf of their member companies. So even if one of the smaller companies only have thousands of subscribers, combined the co-ops are negotiating on behalf of millions of subscribers.

If Rainier wants to, they can try to join one of the co-ops, but then they would be bound by the terms of those carriage deals. i.e. a while back when Tennis Channel started demanding more widespread package placement, Optimum attempted to get around it by joining one of the co-ops since their older deal still allowed sports tier only placement, but once the Tennis Channel negotiated a new deal with the co-op that required regular package placement, Optimum refused and was forced to drop the channel.

Another problem is Rainier is distributing PowerVu receivers, but there's many major channels out there who use other systems like Digicipher DVB-S2 (which isn't compatible with the previous 4DTV Digicipher II system) or Verimatrix. Including the master feeds for HBO, CBS/Showtime, Starz, Discovery, Turner, Disney/ESPN, Fox's Cable channels, along with the HITS Quantum suite.


----------



## Bigg

KyL416 said:


> Those smaller companies are members of one of the co-ops like the NRTC or the NCTC who negotiate deals in blocks together on behalf of their member companies. So even if one of the smaller companies only have thousands of subscribers, combined the co-ops are negotiating on behalf of millions of subscribers.
> 
> If Rainier wants to, they can try to join one of the co-ops, but then they would be bound by the terms of those carriage deals. i.e. a while back when Tennis Channel started demanding more widespread package placement, Optimum attempted to get around it by joining one of the co-ops since their older deal still allowed sports tier only placement, but once the Tennis Channel negotiated a new deal with the co-op that required regular package placement, Optimum refused and was forced to drop the channel.


True, and the co-ops are still getting killed on pricing compared to the big providers. Would Rainier Satellite be allowed to join a co-op and guaranteed access to the same content that they get? It's a bit of a different game, since they have receivers directly on C-Band in the individual users' homes. The content providers shouldn't need to force the same packages down the throat of C-Band users, since it is a niche market, although the flip side is that forced packages would guarantee access to a full cable lineup of content, and not have content providers randomly having hissy fits and pulling out of a package unless they did it for all of the co-ops' customers including small cable companies.


----------



## Z_finigan

Hey. Let me correct you when it comes to today with c band. 

I have had a few boxes at a time on my system. When I had 4dtv. Before the shut down. August 2016. I had 2 4dtv boxes and fta box. My fta box moved the satellite. 
When ever I wanted to use 4dtv. I just set my fta box to NBC. It worked and both of the 4dtv boxes did as well at the same time. And could all be on different channels. 
I use a 4 X 8 powered switch. 

Now. Today there is no reason they could not have a ton of stations on one satellite. 
Most American satellites show only 24 c band transponders. 
But the Mexican satellites have up to 50 c band transponders. Some only 4 mhz apart. 
And that could easily put us over 400 TV stations. On top of that. If we let them put the quality lower like direct and dish. Probably 800 tv stations. 
And with 16 psk. H265. They probably could take every station on all satellites and put them on one. 


So yeah they could have and do have the ability to do it. 
If you have to park on a satellite. The best one with the most stations on one. Would have to be 125w.

And you have music choice. Which the kids would love the music video channel. It's in HD and fta.


----------



## James Long

Z_finigan said:


> Most American satellites show only 24 c band transponders.
> But the Mexican satellites have up to 50 c band transponders. Some only 4 mhz apart.
> And that could easily put us over 400 TV stations.


Can you name one? What I see is multiple uplink feeds on the same transponder instead of one combined feed (one mux) per transponder. Those 4 mhz spaced transmissions do not have the same bandwidth as a full transponder feed. You are certainly not going to get eight high quality feeds in 4 mhz.


----------



## P Smith

well... 3.75 MHz with DVB-S2 3000 Ksps, 32APSK, 8/9, 0.25 would yield 13+ Mbps
what could be enough for one HD/H.265 channels


----------



## Bigg

Z_finigan said:


> Hey. Let me correct you when it comes to today with c band.
> 
> I have had a few boxes at a time on my system. When I had 4dtv. Before the shut down. August 2016. I had 2 4dtv boxes and fta box. My fta box moved the satellite.
> When ever I wanted to use 4dtv. I just set my fta box to NBC. It worked and both of the 4dtv boxes did as well at the same time. And could all be on different channels.
> I use a 4 X 8 powered switch.
> 
> Now. Today there is no reason they could not have a ton of stations on one satellite.
> Most American satellites show only 24 c band transponders.
> But the Mexican satellites have up to 50 c band transponders. Some only 4 mhz apart.
> And that could easily put us over 400 TV stations. On top of that. If we let them put the quality lower like direct and dish. Probably 800 tv stations.
> And with 16 psk. H265. They probably could take every station on all satellites and put them on one.
> 
> So yeah they could have and do have the ability to do it.
> If you have to park on a satellite. The best one with the most stations on one. Would have to be 125w.
> 
> And you have music choice. Which the kids would love the music video channel. It's in HD and fta.


The feeds to cable and satellite companies still need to be really high quality, even though most providers are compressing the crap out of them, as the better the source, the more efficient the compression is for them. Still, they could offer residential C-band service with those high quality feeds with a motorized dish or one of the large, wide multi-satellite dishes that the cable companies use to pick up all their C-band feeds with only a dish or two.


----------



## P Smith

Bigg said:


> one of the large, wide multi-satellite dishes that the cable companies use to pick up all their C-band feeds with only a dish or two.


I've seen Comcast facility in Bay Area CA - nope, they have a dozen of big dishes (not a mesh !)


----------



## Bigg

P Smith said:


> I've seen Comcast facility in Bay Area CA - nope, they have a dozen of big dishes (not a mesh !)


DirecTV, as well as my local cable company, each use only one or two dishes, the main one being a very wide one that gets a whole bunch of satellites. Further, Comcast receives all their signals in Denver and transmits them via IP fiber nationwide, so the dishes you saw are old and out of service.


----------



## James Long

Light reading from the FCC: FCC Expands Flexible Use of Mid-band Spectrum

"The NPRM seeks comment on transitioning part or all the 3.7-4.2 GHz band for terrestrial wireless broadband, exploring market-based, auction, and alternative approaches. The Order collects information and certifications from existing users"


----------



## P Smith

So, it's coming to the End of C-band Era in US … while other part of the World still using it for sat transmissions.


----------



## Bigg

P Smith said:


> So, it's coming to the End of C-band Era in US &#8230; while other part of the World still using it for sat transmissions.


All the major providers still use it, it's just not available for consumers.


----------



## James Long

The direction the rule making is going will make it harder for home consumers to get C band service. Commercial transmission and reception will be protected (for companies who bothered to register their transmit and receive dishes) but there is no discussion of protecting potential "direct to home" users. Direct-to-Home C-Band is dead and isn't coming back in the US.


----------



## Z_finigan

Not true. Rainer is one. That is dth. It's not coming together as fast as I would like. But you could do what 4dtv did. And Orby is doing. Get a transponder and load 30 channels on it. 

5ghz the way want to use it. Will not work out well. Just watch. 

They should have taken over ku. Once direct TV ends satellite service. Ku is dead. It's been dead to us here. What's it got. 10 worth watching TV.


----------



## James Long

Z_finigan said:


> And Orby is doing. Get a transponder and load 30 channels on it.


Orby is Ku (FSS).

Rainier is not guaranteed since home reception will not be protected from future terrestrial services.


----------



## Z_finigan

James Long said:


> Orby is Ku (FSS).
> 
> Rainier is not guaranteed since home reception will not be protected from future terrestrial services.


It was. If you sent the forms in. Then your on the list. They knew about Rainer. As well.

Well it will be fun to take out the block using a microwave.


----------



## KyL416

Z_finigan said:


> They should have taken over ku. Once direct TV ends satellite service. Ku is dead. It's been dead to us here. What's it got. 10 worth watching TV.


Ku is a LOT more than just DirecTV, Dish and Orby. In addition to all those ethnic and religious channels sharing transponders from 3rd parties like Olympusat, Globecast, Encompass and others, the broadcast networks use it to feed their affiliates, along with syndication feeds, news gathering, affiliate news services (i.e. ABC NewsOne, CNN Newsource, CBS Newspath, NBC News Channel, Fox News Edge), live sports backhauls, campus channels, among other things.

Also, the thing you brought up earlier, having all the channels being available on one sat. That's already done via HITS Quantum who rebroadcasts channels to SES 11 in Digicipher encryption for smaller cable providers who don't have the land or budget to have a full antenna farm at their headend. They were also the ones supplying the feeds for 4DTV receivers after the original master feed 4DTV service ended, until they broke compatibility a few years ago by switching to DVB-S2 modulation so they could increase the HD services available. Since Rainier distributes PowerVu receivers they're also not compatible with HITS.


----------



## Z_finigan

KyL416 said:


> Ku is a LOT more than just DirecTV and Dish. In addition to all those free to air ethnic and religious channels, the broadcast networks use it to feed their affiliates, syndication feeds, news gathering, affilaite news services (i.e. ABC NewsOne, CNN Newsource, CBS Newspath, NBC News Channel, Fox News Edge), sports backhauls, campus channels, among other things.
> 
> Also, the thing you brought up earlier, having all the channels being available on one sat. That's already done via HITS Quantum who rebroadcasts channels to SES 11 for smaller cable providers who don't have the land or budget to have a full antenna farm at their headend. They were also the ones supplying the feeds for 4DTV receivers after the original 4DTV service ended until their switch to DVB-S2 so they could increase the HD services available broke compatibility a few years ago.


From what I saw. A video. A guy hacked dc2. He did it the same year. Which end up being why they were in a hurry to shut it down. I had 4dtv till the end. And then we had 40 premium TV channels for a year. In the open in the clear.

If my 2nd 4dtv box did not die. I was going to use a new fta box s2. And by pass the tuner in the 4dtv box to see if I could use it to tune the open dc2. I never did get the chance. And it's not worth wasting money on a commercial receiver. For a few channels. And the once in a while free previews. 
We get them on the normal c band.

Oh and back to ku. Galaxy 19. Which has nothing I would ever watch.


----------



## puremagix

There seems to be some confusion about what's available on C-Band. I was in the satellite business for 30 years, selling everything from C-Band to Dish, Primestar and DirecTV. Unlike most dish owners, I never took down by old C-Band dish and did a little scouring the internet for information on digital broadcast.

I eventually found what I was looking for and have been scouring the sky for new signals ever since. Now, I have 5 C-Band dishes and 4 Ku dishes receiving over 1200 channels free. Some of them include Grit, H&I, MeTV, FeTV and THIS to name a few. All the dishes I have up were salvage dishes people no longer wanted, with the exception of one 7.5 footer I kept from my business.

You can buy receivers for as little as $50 and LNBF's with WiMax filters for about the same money. I have mine planted stationary because I didn't want the hassle of moving the dish from one satellite to another, but you can get everything I get and more by adding an actuator to the system. I have one dish that's movable so I can search other satellites for free programming.

Trust me, there are a lot more than 1200 channels especially if you are bilingual. Spanish, Chinese, Japanese of Arabic. For about $500 to $600 you could be watching TV for Free. I'm new to this website, and there may be others that are doing what I'm doing, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in in case someone was interested. I'm adding a picture of my system. Cheers


----------



## jack mise

puremagix said:


> There seems to be some confusion about what's available on C-Band. I was in the satellite business for 30 years, selling everything from C-Band to Dish, Primestar and DirecTV. Unlike most dish owners, I never took down by old C-Band dish and did a little scouring the internet for information on digital broadcast.
> 
> I eventually found what I was looking for and have been scouring the sky for new signals ever since. Now, I have 5 C-Band dishes and 4 Ku dishes receiving over 1200 channels free. Some of them include Grit, H&I, MeTV, FeTV and THIS to name a few. All the dishes I have up were salvage dishes people no longer wanted, with the exception of one 7.5 footer I kept from my business.
> 
> You can buy receivers for as little as $50 and LNBF's with WiMax filters for about the same money. I have mine planted stationary because I didn't want the hassle of moving the dish from one satellite to another, but you can get everything I get and more by adding an actuator to the system. I have one dish that's movable so I can search other satellites for free programming.
> 
> Trust me, there are a lot more than 1200 channels especially if you are bilingual. Spanish, Chinese, Japanese of Arabic. For about $500 to $600 you could be watching TV for Free. I'm new to this website, and there may be others that are doing what I'm doing, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in in case someone was interested. I'm adding a picture of my system. Cheers


enjoyed c band for 20 years, and still have the 10' dish on the roof..with mover. used to get all the tv i wanted for about 65 bucks a year....throw in another hundred and i could get the double whammy movie channels...as long as not currently subscribed. next year i would take the same option for the other two channels. have thrown away the old 4dtv receiver and would like to give your deal a try. i'm in hawaii, so did not get all the sats i would have liked, but still had plenty. this has probably all changed. i have taken a look at a few sats and don't see many clear channels. which can i hope to see here, and what sort of receiver and dish mover do i need. still have the old dual lnb, but don't know if it's any good. currently just using free rooftop ota. with 15 broadcast channels. aloha


----------

