# Can anyone help us with this please?



## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

Hi to all
We have been Dish Network customers for over 2 years and just got our system upgraded to HD a few weeks ago and are experiencing some problems we never did while using the regular non HD receiver. We now have a 722K HD receiver and are missing some of our early morning programs. We like to watch "Ryan's Hope" which the soap network broadcasts in two 1/2 hour back to back episodes on weekday mornings. We set our timers exactly the way we did with the older system and have no problems with programs in the later daytime or evening. But this particular show airs at 5 AM and 5:30 AM. The timers are set but the events will never record. We have tried to set the receiver shut down time to 8 hours instead of 4 but that didn't help. In reading the manual it says it should record even if the receiver has turned itself off. Can anyone help us with this problem please? 
Thanks,
Bruala


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> ... We set our timers exactly the way we did with the older system and have no problems with programs in the later daytime or evening. But this particular show airs at 5 AM and 5:30 AM. The timers are set but the events will never record. ...


Are you in Single or Dual Mode? Are you "using" (watching) the receiver when you wish it to record those two early shows? Are the shows from the Sat or OTA?


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> Are you in Single or Dual Mode? Are you "using" (watching) the receiver when you wish it to record those two early shows? Are the shows from the Sat or OTA?


It is in Dual Mode and we are normally asleep at that time so the TV is off. This would be a Sat show...........Thanks for the reply


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

I haven't looked at this in a while but could this be caused by the receiver doing it's nightly reboot at that time (it defaults to 5 AM IIRC)? Might be something worth trying.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I can see Ryan's Hope on channel 253 at 2AM and 2:30AM (I'm PDT), but it isn't included in AT120 so I can't even set a timer for it to try to duplicate your issue. If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there.

The more details you could post about the Timer (New, All Episodes, M-F, ...) and what your "old system" was, the more ideas people might have. What I see in the Guide for Ryan's Hope is Episode # is NA and no Original Air Date (just 1975). The shows that follow it have normal episode # and OAD values. Maybe something else is also hosed up in the Guide info that prevents the recordings.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

bobukcat said:


> I haven't looked at this in a while but could this be caused by the receiver doing it's nightly reboot at that time (it defaults to 5 AM IIRC)? Might be something worth trying.


My wife changed this to 3AM, so it isn't that


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

CABill said:


> I can see Ryan's Hope on channel 253 at 2AM and 2:30AM (I'm PDT), but it isn't included in AT120 so I can't even set a timer for it to try to duplicate your issue. If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there.
> 
> It has been missing completely, except on days when one of us woke up and turned on the TV, went to channel 253 and then it started to record all by itself. We can't figure out why is is doing this?????
> 
> The more details you could post about the Timer (New, All Episodes, M-F, ...) and what your "old system" was, the more ideas people might have. What I see in the Guide for Ryan's Hope is Episode # is NA and no Original Air Date (just 1975). The shows that follow it have normal episode # and OAD values. Maybe something else is also hosed up in the Guide info that prevents the recordings.


My wife set this up as "All episodes" so the date and # shouldn't matter.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

Dish Network's answer to this is to just send us another receiver. I'll bet 99% that we will have the same issues with it. That will be the 2nd one they send to us:-((((((


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> My wife set this up as "All episodes" so the date and # shouldn't matter.


If you know that it is the two AM episodes *only*, using All Episodes is likely a poor choice. You could set up two M-F daily timers for 5:00 and 5:30 AM episodes of Ryan's Hope.

Also, CaBill's Post #5 is a great approach and should provide a definitive answer as to what is going on. I'd suggest re-reading his suggestions a couple of times and posting the results!!!


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> If you know that it is the two AM episodes *only*, using All Episodes is likely a poor choice. You could set up two M-F daily timers for 5:00 and 5:30 AM episodes of Ryan's Hope.
> 
> Also, CaBill's Post #5 is a great approach and should provide a definitive answer as to what is going on. I'd suggest re-reading his suggestions a couple of times and posting the results!!!


With regard to CaBill's post #5 I did reply "
*It has been missing completely, except on days when one of us woke up and turned on the TV, went to channel 253 and then it started to record all by itself. We can't figure out why is is doing this?"*
I have set two separate mon-fri timers again. My wife tells me she already tried that approach last week:-((


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> With regard to CaBill's post #5 I did reply "
> *It has been missing completely, except on days when one of us woke up and turned on the TV, went to channel 253 and then it started to record all by itself. We can't figure out why is is doing this?"*
> ...


No you didn't reply ... adequately.

You said, "My wife set this up as "All episodes" so the date and # shouldn't matter."

WTF?

He asked, in part, "can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there."

An answer to this would have explained why the recordings did not occur.

If you're not going to help, I don't see what anyone can do for you. 

We tried.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> No you didn't reply ... adequately.
> 
> You said, "My wife set this up as "All episodes" so the date and # shouldn't matter."
> 
> ...


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> Ridiculous material redacted. ...
> Sorry.....that WAS my answer. We have tried every type of timer setting, ALL, NEW, Mon-Fri and nothing seems to work


And by not answering his (CaBill) request you don't have, nor likely will have, a solution. 

If you knew all the possibilities and knew more than CaBill and the rest of us , why did you post? lol

I'm done.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

CABill said:


> I can see Ryan's Hope on channel 253 at 2AM and 2:30AM (I'm PDT), but it isn't included in AT120 so I can't even set a timer for it to try to duplicate your issue. If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there.
> Dear CABill
> * It seems that some other members of this forum nave very little patience with a new member, But I have never seen "WTF" used by anyone yet. Mr saltydog might obviously have a short or blown fuse) :nono2: Sorry that I didn't directly answer your questions and will try again.
> I went backwards in time with the DVR button as requested and the timers were not there. The only event being displayed in the timers was when my wife turned on the TV at 5:45 this morning, went to the channel and it immediately began to record. There were only the last 15 minutes of the second episode showing on the timer.*
> ...


*
When she set new timers after deleting the old ones, she tried New, then all episodes and then finally Monday to Friday, but none of the choices worked. We also tried changing the reboot time and keeping the receiver on for 8 hours*.

I appreciate your help and thank you


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> And by not answering his (CaBill) request you don't have, nor likely will have, a solution.
> 
> If you knew all the possibilities and knew more than CaBill and the rest of us , why did you post? lol
> 
> I'm done.


Yes you are.....well done to be sure
thank you for that WTF that was greatly appreciated....NOT!
Perhaps a little patience with a new user might help you salty


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> Nasty stuff deleted.
> I went backwards in time with the DVR button as requested and the timers were not there. The only event being displayed in the timers was when my wife turned on the TV at 5:45 this morning, went to the channel and it immediately began to record. There were only the last 15 minutes of the second episode showing on the timer.


You still didn't do what CaBill asked, and that I asked that you read and re-read.

"If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there."

Note that once in the Daily schedule, you do not go back and forth using the DVR button. lol 

If you had done what he asked, we would know why your AM timers did not fire - also, had you done what he asked, it does not show when someone turned on the TV. :lol:


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

bruala said:


> Yes you are.....well done to be sure
> thank you for that WTF that was greatly appreciated....NOT!
> Perhaps a little patience with a new user might help you salty


and perhaps following knowledgeable requests for info might get you a solution.

WTF = What's that for? 

Also, do a search in this or any forum here and you will find dozens of uses...

In any event, you have a nice day..... "NOT!" :sure:


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> You still didn't do what CaBill asked, and that I asked that you read and re-read.
> 
> "If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? The 5AM event could be missing entirely, could say Skipped (with some reason you should mention), could be some cryptic "AV start", ... then go forward in time in the Daily Schedule to tomorrow's 5AM Event and note what it says there."
> 
> ...


Salty Me Boy,,,,,,,I have said it numerous times! I did go back and look at the timers!!
They were NOT there at all!!! You can't see a timer if it does not show. All the others Were there but not the one(s) for Ryan's Hope, although it(they) had been set the same way


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

SaltiDawg said:


> and perhaps following knowledgeable requests for info might get you a solution.
> 
> WTF = What's that for?
> 
> In any event, you have a nice day..... "NOT!" :sure:


Hummmmm.......Obviously you are not a member of "Toastmasters"

Been around computers and the net since their inception and WTF
always meant "What The [email protected]@K", so you shouldn't use it, if you don't
know it's real meaning and you shouldn't answer other peoples posts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTF


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

CABill said:


> ... If you hit the DVR button 3 times to get to Daily Schedule, can you first go backwards in time to see what your receiver says for the event at 5AM today? ...


Bill,

With this clown fighting every step, I suggest that you mention that he needs to select "Show Skipped" before scrolling down to 5:00 AM. Careful, he needed to get a reading on what "WTF" really means and apparently didn't search the forum to see that it is used here *very* frequently.

I now have *two* people on my ignore list. :lol:


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Remembering that *I* can't hit Select in the Guide for Ryan's Hope and create a Timer (it takes me to an online application to upgrade my programming to include Soap), you'll need to tell me explicitly what you see when you do. And words will make quite a bit of difference. It might be viewed as nitpicking semantics, but when you are on the Daily Schedule screen, it isn't displaying Timers, but rather Events created by the Timers you have created. On the Daily Schedule screen, there is a Timers selection near the top right. 

Since I can't be sure if it is the Timer or the Event that doesn't exist for Ryan's Hope, I'm going to go up a Channel to 258 and "show you the way".  I went out and looked and it was Carrol somebody above tomorrow's 2AM and I hit Select. Left Type=DVR, Frequency to All Episodes, and I moved down to Priority and hit Select on Move to Top. That's mostly to make it easy to find in the list of Timers so I can delete it, but also rules out priority as an issue. 
Done and Create Timer, and I'm back to the Guide with a TV2 icon on Carrol. Hitting Select again takes me to that Event in a Daily Schedule screen, but I can move to the right and pick the Timer for that show and display the other Events that will be Recorded / Skipped / ... in the future. 

It is possible that when you select Ryan's Hope and Create Timer, you don't get a TV2 icon. Mention it if you don't, or can't display any events when you select the new "top" Timer in your Timers list. My WAG it does create a Timer for Ryan's Hope, and there is an Event displayed for tomorrow's show. Maybe not though. If there is, are there ANY other Events in tomorrow morning's Daily Schedule (say, an Autotune on TV2)? Even if there is an Event in the Schedule for tomorrow morning, it is possible for that to get changed to Skipped, or apparently just disappear entirely if I read you one way, but there is a setting to display or not display Skipped events as mentioned. 

Since you are apparently in Dual mode, the value of Record Plus matters as well. Without that enabled, TV1 remote and TV2 remote have their own controls of just their output (aren't shared - at least not easily). But if that weren't enabled, you'd notice not being able to record two things at the same time (if both created by the same remote). 

I've no idea why you can't get Ryan's Hope to record, but I also don't know what it means when you say there is no Timer. Nothing for the missing recording in Schedule I get, but was there ever something in the Schedule for upcoming Events? Do those disappear when the recording fails at 5AM?


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

First of all Thank You CABill for your informational reply as it was really informative
This morning I was up when my wife turned on the TV at 5:25 AM this morning, so I saw something I had missed the other times and she had not mentioned to me. First hit the small red button at the top to turn on the TV, second hit Select to watch TV and then a message popped up, the exact words I do not remember but I think it was “Unable to download program guide information” 
At that point she went to the soap channel (253) I think and immediately got the message “Program being recorded” We watched the balance of the first one and then the second one from 5:30-6:00 AM
I will start at the beginning as you requested with as much info as I can.
When I go to soap in my program guide for tomorrow morning (Thursday) in the daily schedule, it tells me there are timers set on both episodes, to record them on TV2 at 5 AM and 5:30 AM. Then I go to the timers themselves and they are set to record Mon-Fri DVR to TV2
I set both timers yesterday exactly the way you mentioned, except that I used Mon-Fri timers instead and set the Priority to move to top also. 
And just as you said if I go into Friday or next week on the soap channel listings, it shows that all events will be recorded. 
Yes I get a TV2 icon when I create the timer and there are NO other conflicting events in the schedule at that time in the AM. 
To reply to your last statement, yes there were 2 events for Ryan's Hope in today's daily schedule and both say “Done” to TV2. The timers are there also and tell it to record on TV2. But when I look at the actual recorded data the first one shows 3 minutes recorded and the second 30 mins. That was triggered at 5:25, when my wife switched to the soap channel and it started to record.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

“Unable to download program guide information” would certainly seem to be the problem here. It does get a new guide every day after the reboot, so I'd try moving that back from 3AM to 1AM or 2AM if it isn't going to interfere with something you record then. That alone probably won't fix the problem, but it's worth a shot.

After the reboot, the receiver stays in Standby (tips on a "screen saver") and probably wouldn't display anything about Guide problems until you take it out of Standby. You can set a 4AM Autotune timer for the show before Ryan's Hope. An Autotune does take it out of Standby. The Extended EPG is only on one transponder of the 119 sat and it is (remotely) possible you are having trouble getting the EEPG, but eventually succeeds. If you go up to that Church channel on 258 and set a timer for 4:30AM too, you'd be able to rule out the Guide info itself on Soap if they both fail.

My *guess* is that if you set an alarm for 4AM and get the receiver out of Standby, you'd see if it has had "guide issues" since the reboot (not sure if you need to Select an OK to get off the message), but just leaving the receiver "on" will record the full episodes at 5 and 5:30. An Autotune timer an hour after your Reboot could solve it. No guarantees, but something to try.


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## RASCAL01 (Aug 2, 2006)

Now that you said that you are having update issuses...are there other program interruptions? I had the same problem and they had to come out and remove all of the old crapcastic cable inside and replace it with a better cable. now everything works fine. When you go from standard def to HD it takes more bandwith and needs better cable to handle it.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

CABill said:


> "Unable to download program guide information" would certainly seem to be the problem here. It does get a new guide every day after the reboot, so I'd try moving that back from 3AM to 1AM or 2AM if it isn't going to interfere with something you record then. That alone probably won't fix the problem, but it's worth a shot.
> 
> Bill I did that first, but figuring as you did that the "Unable to download program guide information" was a likely culprit I tried something else. I moved the system reboot to 4:30 this afternoon and downloaded everything without any error. When the error comes up it does require you to hit the OK button, so that was probably hanging the system. If Ryans Hope records tomorrow AM with the timers I have already set, we will know that was definitly the problem here. If it does not I will dig deeper. I did go through everything this afternoon and it all seems like it is in good shape. Will post to you again tomorrow and let you know the results.
> Thanks Again,
> Bruala


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

RASCAL01 said:


> Now that you said that you are having update issuses...are there other program interruptions? I had the same problem and they had to come out and remove all of the old crapcastic cable inside and replace it with a better cable. now everything works fine. When you go from standard def to HD it takes more bandwith and needs better cable to handle it.


Hi Rascal.....it wasn't cable because all the other timers produced positive DVR results and only the ones right after the daily reboot gave the problm. Also the installer replaced all the original cable when we upgraded to Hi Def
Thanks,
Bruala


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Have you tried setting your daily update to a time AFTER the shows you want to record, say 7am?


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

bruala, now that you found out about the program guide issue it changes everything I would have suggested. 

I have seen all of my receivers have that program guide issue. For some reason the automatic update does not produce a program guide download/update.
I have found if I do a manual forced reset, it will either automatically download the guide and the problem will be solved even for future automatic updates (at least for awhile), or, after the reset, if I move ahead in the guide it will tell me the guide info is not up to date, and do I want to download it now. If you pick yes, it will fix the problem not only for now but for future automatic updates, at least for awhile.

There is a definite correlation to the automatic update not performing the guide download correctly, and dish adding a new channel (or perhaps moving channels) that I receive. Each time this has happened I find a new channel, the last time was when HUB was added. Before that it was when they gave the free channels taking the place of the missing Fox dispute channels....... It may not happen every time a channel change is made, but I have never had it happen other than when there has been a change.


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

CABill......It WAS definitely the update that was not completing and doing it at 4:30 PM as a test really helped, because both events recorded without any issues this morning. I am going to move the update/reboot time to 6:15 AM this evening to see if that gives us the same results, which it should. Then the only issue will be the reason that the update does not complete, although when I did it at 4:40PM if completed and restarted without any issues. Thanks very much for your help Bill and my wife says a loud THANK YOU too!
Regards,
Bruala


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

Jim5506 said:


> Have you tried setting your daily update to a time AFTER the shows you want to record, say 7am?


That is step #2 and it is set for tomorrow morning at 6:15AM
Thanks
Bruala


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

tampa8 said:


> bruala, now that you found out about the program guide issue it changes everything I would have suggested.
> 
> I have seen all of my receivers have that program guide issue. For some reason the automatic update does not produce a program guide download/update.
> I have found if I do a manual forced reset, it will either automatically download the guide and the problem will be solved even for future automatic updates (at least for awhile), or, after the reset, if I move ahead in the guide it will tell me the guide info is not up to date, and do I want to download it now. If you pick yes, it will fix the problem not only for now but for future automatic updates, at least for awhile.
> ...


Yes....I remember it happened before when they added new channels or moved a channel.
Hopefully this will bring this saga to an end, but Dish sent us another new receiver which arrived today and i know that won't fix this issue, so we are just going to return it. I put a new on in already and it was no different. Thanks for the help)
Bruala


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## bruala (Oct 26, 2010)

Message to all.......Moving the update to 6:15 worked out fine and we got both episodes with no hangup on the receiver start up at 7 AM this morning. Thanks to all of you for the help!
Bruala


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