# TiVo Wants Access To a Combined AT&T/DirecTV



## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

*TiVo Wants Access To a Combined AT&T/DirecTV*

(zatznotfunny.com) - By way of the TiVo Community and an FCC filing, we learn that TiVo has petitioned the powers that be for access to customers of a combined AT&T and DirecTV - should the merger be approved (now with NFL in the bag)....

Full Story Here


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I agree with this. Why not? Tivo has access to cable via MSO partnerships and the retail distribution channel. Tivo's new haxe development platform has brought great improvements in speed and UI across the board on Premier and Roamio units. Why settle for a 10 year old Tivo on an ancient HR-22 when Tivo Retail is many years ahead? But then to have that integrated experience you need to switch to Cable.

Really it would be a win-win for both companies. Tivo lovers are can now sign up for DirecTV, Improving DirecTV's profits. Tivo can get revenue from DirecTV subs. Win-Win.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

I'd like see Directv forced to use some sort of cable card tech as a condition of this merger. It would be a big win for the consumer.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Araxen said:


> I'd like see Directv forced to use some sort of cable card tech as a condition of this merger. It would be a big win for the consumer.


what good is a cable card if your TV can't decode the signal

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## Tubaman-Z (Jul 31, 2007)

My wife would approve. Even now, several years after last using a TiVo with D* she will occasionally say "I sure like the TiVo experience better."


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The ability to get DirecTV programming on a fully supported TiVO Roamio and getting rid of the THR22 would be a nice option.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> The ability to get DirecTV programming on a fully supported TiVO Roamio and getting rid of the THR22 would be a nice option.


They don't need a fcc force to get that nor should they be able to force it


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Araxen said:


> I'd like see Directv forced to use some sort of cable card tech as a condition of this merger. It would be a big win for the consumer.


No way that will happen. DIRECTV is far to worried about security and cable card for most doesn't support on demand so it's kill their revenue stream from that.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Not if they worked on an IP solution to VOD. They got it to work with cable giant Comcast. Add other partners like RCN, Suddenlink, Grande, GCI and more. They have a head start with DirecTV since VOD already comes over the internet connection.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Araxen said:


> I'd like see Directv forced to use some sort of cable card tech as a condition of this merger. It would be a big win for the consumer.


If only CableCARD technology were sufficient for the purpose and had a certain future.

TiVo surely sees the writing on the wall with the latest DBS satellite legislation that included language that would sunset (expire) the CableCARD requirement for terrestrial providers. Without CableCARD or something like it, someone might as well stick a fork in TiVo.
AllVid may be the answer, but it's got a long way to go before anyone can effectively use it.
AllVid is proposed to support up to six streams per gateway and two streams per terminal.
AllVid specifies CAT5 to connect everything.
AllVid's biggest backer may be Google and we know that the competition (both terrestrial and DBS) doesn't want to do anything to give them a leg up.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> They don't need a fcc force to get that nor should they be able to force it


I disagree.

It would happen only if it were mandated. From your subsequent post, you seem to agree.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It would happen only if it were mandated. From your subsequent post, you seem to agree.


No not at all. TiVo has a licensing agreement now. No reason they can't make another. Tivo wants to avoid the licensing agreement. The irony there is incredible.

Directv surely wants final control so they can make sure security and such meets their specs and that they don't have to change their proprietary security and broadcast schemes.

And why shouldn't they?

My posts aren't contradictory at all.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

First of all, despite the Basset's (as usual) incorrect characterization of the proposed law, the new satellite legislation would only end the requirement that cable operators include Cablecards in their *own* equipment. Whether you realize it or not, every cable box manufactured within the last 10 years has a Cablecard inside doing the decryption of the cable signal. The requirement that cable operators support Cablecards for third party devices (which include TiVos, PC tuner cards, Samsung cable boxes, etc.) has not yet been eliminated. The purpose of the rule was to make third party equipment equal in function to proprietary equipment. However, the cable companies only enable 2 way communication on their proprietary boxes, eliminating VOD on the third party boxes in most cases. Cablecards are perfectly capable of 2 way communication, just not as implemented by the cable operators.

That said, Cablecard was a deficient standard that was out of date before it was finalized. AllVid is already DOA. Comcast and TiVo are jointly working on a new downloadable security solution that would not require specialized hardware like Cablecards or Smartcards (the system used by satellite). Comcast already supports VOD on TiVo DVRs via an IP based applet. Verizon could do the same thing tomorrow if they chose, since they already deliver VOD as streaming IP traffic.

The TiVo requested condition on the AT&T/DirecTV merger is that DirecTV and UVerse be required to support third party devices, not Cablecards. They, along with Dish Network, were exempted from the Cablecard rules because they used an incompatible broadcast system and they were too small to warrant the creation of a separate standard. Today, the second part of that justification is no longer valid. The satellite companies are 2 of the 5 largest content distributors in the country. AT&T/DirectTV will be second only to Comcast in size. It is time to establish a way for them to support third party devices. It would do nothing more than level the field.

Of course, the big disincentive is that ALL operators, cable and satellite as well as UVerse, make big profits on equipment rental fees. If I had to pay Verizon's monthly fees for the equivalent of my two Roamio Pros and 5 Minis the monthly cost of FiOS versus DirecTV would only have been about $15 and would have made my switching providers unlikely. So, if DirecTV were smart, they would allow the current TiVo software (the version now on Premieres and Roamios) to be ported to the Genie hardware. They would win back a lot of subscribers that they have lost to FIOS and Comcast.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> *First of all, despite the Basset's (as usual) incorrect characterization of the proposed law*, the new satellite legislation would only end the requirement that cable operators include Cablecards in their *own* equipment. Whether you realize it or not, every cable box manufactured within the last 10 years has a Cablecard inside doing the decryption of the cable signal. The requirement that cable operators support Cablecards for third party devices (which include TiVos, PC tuner cards, Samsung cable boxes, etc.) has not yet been eliminated. The purpose of the rule was to make third party equipment equal in function to proprietary equipment. However, the cable companies only enable 2 way communication on their proprietary boxes, eliminating VOD on the third party boxes in most cases. Cablecards are perfectly capable of 2 way communication, just not as implemented by the cable operators.
> 
> That said, Cablecard was a deficient standard that was out of date before it was finalized. AllVid is already DOA. Comcast and TiVo are jointly working on a new downloadable security solution that would not require specialized hardware like Cablecards or Smartcards (the system used by satellite). Comcast already supports VOD on TiVo DVRs via an IP based applet. Verizon could do the same thing tomorrow if they chose, since they already deliver VOD as streaming IP traffic.
> 
> ...


Well written.!! Realize (on bold part) that it takes someone smart to understand this law...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Diana C said:


> First of all, despite the Basset's (as usual) incorrect characterization of the proposed law, the new satellite legislation would only end the requirement that cable operators include Cablecards in their *own* equipment.


TiVo has been lobbying hard so they must believe that sunset legislation will have a huge impact on them. At the same time, TiVo has been cooking up a new scheme with Comcast to replace CableCARD. This is much like the Netflix neutrality issue.

As much as we hear about them, a May 9, 2014 NCTA report to the FCC indicated that among the nine largest cable operators, only 616,000 cards were being used in owned devices versus 47 million in leased devices.

While the text of the law ends the integration ban, the effects are likely much more far reaching.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

harsh said:


> TiVo has been lobbying hard so they must believe that sunset legislation will have a huge impact on them. At the same time, TiVo has been cooking up a new scheme with Comcast to replace CableCARD. This is much like the Netflix neutrality issue.
> 
> As much as we hear about them, a May 9, 2014 NCTA report to the FCC indicated that among the nine largest cable operators, only 616,000 cards were being used in owned devices versus 47 million in leased devices.
> 
> While the text of the law ends the integration ban, the effects are likely much more far reaching.


To be fair though, quite a number of Tivo T6s can be had , by a number of cable companies.

I know Diana bought all of her stuff, but most people won't do what we do.
They are fine with the Cisco, Moto, boxes
The more deals Tivo signs with cable provider the less you'll see cable cards.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> TiVo has been lobbying hard so they must believe that sunset legislation will have a huge impact on them. At the same time, TiVo has been cooking up a new scheme with Comcast to replace CableCARD. This is much like the Netflix neutrality issue.As much as we hear about them, a May 9, 2014 NCTA report to the FCC indicated that among the nine largest cable operators, only 616,000 cards were being used in owned devices versus 47 million in leased devices.While the text of the law ends the integration ban, the effects are likely much more far reaching.


No one really knows what the effect of ending the integration ban will be, but we can speculate. For the near term, it is likely to have little effect. As you point out yourself, there are close to 50 million Cablecard based devices in the field. Many, if not most, are incapable of supporting a software based encryption scheme, so the cable operators are stuck with Cablecards for a long time to come. Again, they are still required to make Cablecards available to customers. Even if the integration ban is ultimately lifted, all it will likely mean is that the Cablecard decryption hardware will simply be integrated into the main circuit board. Longer term, this will likely make Cablecards more expensive and their activation more troublesome, which is why Tivo cares.

TiVo has lobbied against all encroachments on the Cablecard rules since they are, at the moment, critical to their business. Without an industry standard for encryption a third party vendor like TiVo would be faced with potentially as many security schemes as their are cable operators. Back when Cablecards were designed, it was the best solution to the problem. However, today it is very feasible to build the decryption mechanism as downloadable modules. With a standard API, this code could be unique to each provider but still allow third party hardware. Such a standard would also promote the stated goal of lifting the ban: lower hardware costs. This is what TiVo and Comcast are working on together.

The bottom line is that elimination of the integration ban itself will likely have little effect. It never accomplished its goal of making the activation of a third party device the same as a provider supplied device. Cablecard's days are numbered anyway. Downloadable security is the future. If no standard emerges, and every provider implements totally different systems with different requirements and no standard API then TiVo's retail business will be in trouble. However, their retail business is already only a minority portion of their overall business. Their long term strategy is to sell their software as a cloud based offering and their DVRs to cable companies. They have demonstrated TiVo client software running on Android devices, Rokus and game consoles, making any of those devices equivalent to a TiVo Mini. The goal is a server/gateway device that will carry a bunch of tuners and make those available to any device the customer has - tablet, smartphone, TV, e-reader, whatever, all with a consistent user interface and nearly identical capability.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I see Tivo getting back big time in the cable markets.
People will welcome them. They just have to stay close with their prices.
And the have which I posted in my own thread.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Could a proper HAL be written for HR44 to be able to run HAXE? That is supposed to be an easier to port to a cross platform device. With 5 tuners and a faster processor, perhaps a solution similar to TiVo "T6" (MSO's name for TiVo Roamio) could be born. Also firmware to turn GenieGo into TiVo stream.

That would be neat if you could call in and they could just push down the software to an existing Genie setup. It at least eliminates engineering all new hardware or retrofitting TiVo T6 with DirecTV tuners and CAS.


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