# Another PI channel to bite the dust!!



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Bye Bye PBSU http://www.pbs.org/pbsyou/contact.html

*PBS YOU ends service on DIRECTV on December 15, 2005, on DISH Network after the holidays, and from select PBS member stations on or before January 31, 2006. *


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*6. What programming will DIRECTV or DISH offer in place of PBS YOU?*
As both DIRECTV and DISH Network are required by law to offer public interest programming to their customers, both providers will be replacing the PBS YOU channel assignment with alternative programming. DIRECTV has selected the Christian Television Network, while DISH Network has not yet announced its plan. The channels selected are entirely of DIRECTV/DISH Network's choosing, and have no association with PBS or its member stations.​It won't be CTN on E*. 

JL


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

_Because this covers both Dish Network and DirecTV, I am moving this to the general discussion forum. - *Holtz*_

This is kinda important. According to TNGTony, this is a public interest channel, so the connect has to be replaced with another public interest channel.

Here's hoping that DirecTV can put in Classic Arts Showcase in it's place. I believe that Classic Arts Showcase does qualify as PI interest channel. What about Ovation?

Just click on the links below to access the feedback forms:
DirecTV Feedback Form
Dish Network


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Classic Arts is a PI on E*, so it must qualify. DirecTV has already chosen their replacement channel - it's now up to E* to figure one (or more) out.

(The number of PIs is based on capacity. As E* increases the capacity of their satellites they MUST increase the number of PI channels they carry.)

JL


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I know it's a pie in the sky idea, but how about PBS Kids to replace PBS You? I wonder if it is even a possibility.

BTW, by my count, Dish has been short 2 or 3 PI channels for close to a year! (1 or 2 at 10 and 1 at 119)

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I know it's a pie in the sky idea, but how about PBS Kids to replace PBS You? I wonder if it is even a possibility.
> 
> BTW, by my count, Dish has been short 2 or 3 PI channels for close to a year! (1 or 2 at 10 and 1 at 119)


juan ellitinez suggested that in the Charlie Chat thread, and I concur.

It is a shame Spike is wasting channel number 168 - that would be a better place for PBSKids than burried in the 9400's.

And yes, I agree that E* is short a PI channel or three. Probably more.

JL


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> It won't be CTN on E*.
> 
> JL


Fotr those that do not know, you can get CTN using Dish Network receivers. Sky Angel has CTN programming for many hours on Angel 2 channel 9702.

See ya
Tony


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't think PBS Kids is no longer up for PI placement because PBS only signs the channel on as a subscriber for-profit basis and the channel now has commercial sponsorship being re-branded as PBS Kids Sprout. I know my local PBS station had to drop the channel from their digital subchannel offerings


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

That does not disqualify the channel from PI status. FamilyNet was a PI channel briefly until Sky Angel won the injunction agains Dish. FamilyNet has a TON of commercials. However the organization is not-for-profit.

The problem is that this channel isn't cheap and a PI channel has to be available to all AT60 and up subscribers.

See ya
Tony


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## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

Actually, PBS Kids becaome the new "PBS Kids Sprout" channel, so hopefully they will replace it with this. They carry many imported kiddie shows that aren't shown on PBS Kids, so its a good choice.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

PBSKids may not be cheap -- with PIs they are supposed to pay the satellite provider no more than the minimum cost of uplink - although I suppose there is no rule that says that E* MUST charge the minimum and could pay the program provider if they wanted to. It doesn't sound like the intent of the PI law.

JL


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

James Long:

Sorry you think Spike is "wasting" channel 168. Some of us have watched reruns of Deep Space 9 on Spike and were grateful for the opportunity. And those of us without kids certainly would see no value in PBS Kids on that channel. Anyway, with Favorites lists, the channel # doesn't mean much- just have a short Favorites list or a few Favorites lists.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Navychop,

I know James doesn't mean the channel itself isn't a waste. The channel is in the "wrong" place is the problem. Unlike most other multi-channel systems, Dish makes an effort to keep all like channels together. This is why channels like Spike and The Travel Channel and SoapNet seem to be in the wrong place.

When this channel was placed at 168 it was TNN (The Nashville Network) it was mainly music and concerts. It was transformed when Viacomm bought it from Gaylord to what it is now. This channel now belongs in the 130 range along with other general entertainment channels.

At the same time, a channel like Sprout would fit perfectly on channel 168 because it is at the beginning of the "kids channels" area. Currently channels 169-179 are full with children's channels.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Not the channel space but the numbering system. I'm OK with having Spike on the system but feel that they should have changed the channel number when TNN ended ... having the channel at 168 between music and kids stuff is out of place.

JL


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

Tony,

Is there a list of PI channels that is not on Dish?

If we could find a decent one we could start a campaign to get it on like we did with Classic Arts Showcase & Pentagon.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I don't know of such a list. The thing is that these channels generally pop up out of nowhere and vanish just as fast. I don't know if I could put a comprehensive list together or not.

My choice now would be to move CAS from 61.5/148 to 110 to take the place of PBS You and put the new channel on 61.5!

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> My choice now would be to move CAS from 61.5/148 to 110 to take the place of PBS You and put the new channel on 61.5!


If CAS wants to pay for the move. I assume E* considers tha 'basic cost' of uplinking to 110° to be higher that the combined 'basic cost' of uplinking to the wings.

I'm also suprised that the PI rules (or at least the PI channels) have not been extended to 105° and 121°.

JL


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

mwgiii said:


> Is there a list of PI channels that is not on Dish?


I also wish there were a decent list. Off the top of my head, how about the Utah Education Network? http://www.uen.org/

Or if you want to get off in a whole different direction, how much would it cost to deliver a signal to Dish as a PI channel? Start with the concept of nothing but public domain movies and stuff. With no studio or rights fees, what would the bare minimum be?

Signed, the Future CEO of the Public Domain Network :sure:


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

James Long said:


> I'm also suprised that the PI rules (or at least the PI channels) have not been extended to 105° and 121°.


maybe it because they're primarly used for locals, and the number of locals that users typically get (around5 or 6) doesn't meet the threashold required for PI's.
Does Directv put PI's on 71.5?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

72.5 is Canadian (like 129). The US PI rules don't apply.

JL


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

After reading the FCC order, it appears there is a 5 year grace period of the license before the provider is required to carry PI's. 
The same order also say's that U.S. providers (ala Dish and Directv) that use non-U.S. satellites are under the same obligation as those using U.S. satellites (for competitive reasons).
http://www.mediaaccess.org/programs/broadcastingoblig/fcc98307.pdf
paragraph 29 addresses foreign satellite use
paragraph 70 gives the 5-year grace period


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

Here is what I have found so far, not a very helpful list.
http://www.birds-eye.net/directory/channels/publicinterest.htm


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## AdamGott (Nov 30, 2005)

My vote is for PBS HD.... I had it on cable but our local channel used up to four carrier broadcasts and the bandwidth allocated to HD was near awful.


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## TBarclay (Mar 24, 2002)

That won't happen. Local PBS stations would never allow it.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

I stand corrected.


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## cohagen (Oct 27, 2005)

When I signed up for Dish about 4 months ago I wondered what PBS offerings would be there. I was happy to see PBS-U once I added the 110 satellite. However, I quickly noticed this was not your usual PBS station. Almost 100% of the time it was Charlie Rose or Julia Child. 

Where was Nova, Frontline, Tavis Smiley, Mcneil-Lehrer News Hour, This Old House, etc !!!! 

All of the shows mentioned above make PBS in my opinion THE MOST VALUABLE AND IMPORTANT CHANNEL for and programming provider to carry.

Now... the PBS I am used to is channel 9 in San Francisco, and then when I went to C-Band using 4DTV I picked up a PBS station out of LA.

Where is this stuff on the Dish?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> juan ellitinez suggested that in the Charlie Chat thread, and I concur.
> 
> It is a shame Spike is wasting channel number 168 - that would be a better place for PBSKids than burried in the 9400's.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree Spike is a waste. Ovation is a commercial channel. Back in 1999 when AT&T had the francise, Ovation had The Nat King Cole show and other good show. I wish E would carry it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

cohagen,

Do you not subscribe to local channels?

JL


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Is D* picking up the CTN out of Tampa (WCLF), or the CTN out of Detroit? They are two entirely different operations.


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## cohagen (Oct 27, 2005)

James Long said:


> cohagen,
> 
> Do you not subscribe to local channels?
> 
> JL


James thanks for the reply. I get distant locals... I'm in the Virgin Islands. Should I be getting a "local" PBS in addition to PBS-U?

This would be great news.

*runs to remote to double check guide*


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

AdamGott said:


> My vote is for PBS HD.... I had it on cable but our local channel used up to four carrier broadcasts and the bandwidth allocated to HD was near awful.


I got PBS HD :grin: when I switched to Adelphia. A welcome addition to my 17 HD channel lineup.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

cohagen said:


> I'm in the Virgin Islands. Should I be getting a "local" PBS in addition to PBS-U?


I had no idea that the Virgin Islands were in California. 

IF there is a local PBS station available AND you subscribe to locals, then you should be getting it already.

IF there is no local PBS station available, then you should be eligible for the PBS national feed. If so, you need to ask for it and pay a little extra.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

carload said:


> I had no idea that the Virgin Islands were in California.


There are no virgins left in California. :whatdidid


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I get PBSHD for free 24/7.

JL


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## Directvisforme (Dec 15, 2005)

Directv still has PBSYou pn the air?What happned?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They probably mean 12/15 is the last day, either that or they decided to wait until the channel officially ceases programming at the end of January.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Well, it appears that PBS You has been given a temporary stay of execution as it was still up on DirecTV 377 this morning. However, in reading the PBS You webpage:


> *6. What programming will DIRECTV or DISH offer in place of PBS YOU?*
> 
> As both DIRECTV and DISH Network are required by law to offer public interest programming to their customers, both providers will be replacing the PBS YOU channel assignment with alternative programming. DIRECTV has selected the Christian Television Network, while DISH Network has not yet announced its plan. The channels selected are entirely of DIRECTV/DISH Network's choosing, and have no association with PBS or its member stations.
> 
> ...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> As PBS does not have another public interest channel available,


That spikes PBSKids for sure. 

JL


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

I wonder if the Annenberg/CPB Channel counts.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

James Long said:


> That spikes PBSKids for sure.
> 
> JL


noooo D* allready carries pbskids!! I think thats what they mean


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

juan ellitinez said:


> noooo D* allready carries pbskids!! I think thats what they mean


OK ... that helps. 

JL


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## thebigjp (Jan 21, 2003)

today is Dec 18th, PBSU is still there. something must have happened.


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## midnight75 (Jun 25, 2004)

thebigjp said:


> today is Dec 18th, PBSU is still there. something must have happened.


Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I never watch the channel.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

midnight75 said:


> Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I never watch the channel.


So it makes perfect sense then, that you're bothering to post in this thread!:lol:


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

kenglish said:


> Is D* picking up the CTN out of Tampa (WCLF), or the CTN out of Detroit? They are two entirely different operations.


According to Zap2it, who jumped the gun and changed the D* lineup even though PBS You is still on, we'll be getting WCLF.


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## midnight75 (Jun 25, 2004)

tsmacro said:


> So it makes perfect sense then, that you're bothering to post in this thread!:lol:


I post what I think, if you have a problem with that, then add my name to your block list.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

midnight75 said:


> Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I never watch the channel.


Me either, I don't watch any PI Channels.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

midnight75 said:


> I post what I think, if you have a problem with that, then add my name to your block list.


Nope, no problem here. I just found it humorous(or maybe even slightly ironic I guess) that someone would bother to post about something they don't watch or care about. As long as you don't have a problem with that, we have no problems!


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