# Illegal Locals Discrimination and DirecTV



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

DirecTV charges $33.99 for Total Choice, and $38.99 is Total Choice with local channels. A customer MUST take Total Choice now before subscribing to local channels.

Unlike cable where local channels are sold in the lowest package and in all services, then the cable networks in the higher package, DirecTV puts the cable channels in the lower package and then locals in the higher package, setting a new standard for FCC (although FCC currently hasnt looked into this).

However to my understanding DirecTV is selling WTBS 17 to customers in Atlanta in the lower package, but requiring customer pay extra to see the additional local channels in Atlanta (which is discriminatory to the other local stations). Illegal.

On grey grounds are these national feeds (like Univision, Telemundo and PAX). The programming is very duplicative to local affiliates (like WUVP WPPX) that are owned by these networks. One just needs to look at WPPX 61 and PAX TV that DirecTV carries to see the level of duplicating shows, WUVP 65 and Univision National Feed. 

One could see that DirecTV could even sign a deal with NBC, so NBC makes a special channel called "NBC Philadelphia". It could be very duplicative to NBC 10, WCAU TV, but still not be a local channel because its not WCAU TV. NBC and DirecTV could evade the local station route, so this NBC Philadelphia is included in the lowest package level, but a mustcarry station or a competing station is put at disadvantaged.

DirecTV includes PAX TV in Total Choice. However an independent station like WFMZ 69 (Ind.) is discriminated against over PAX TV and the local PAX affiliate, since the independent's programming is being put in the more expensive package.

To be safe, shouldnt DirecTV be putting local stations in the lower tiers, or be like Dish and just sell locals separate (with no strings attached, except maybe an access fee). I'd like to see a lawsuit against DirecTV or the issue brought up. It seems very discriminatory to local stations, more than the wing satellite business Echostar involved themselves into. Atleast Echostar doesnt charge extra for the minor stations.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Some cable companies make you take their basic cable package in order to receiver the network channels. In other words, no lifeline cable available for some where only the networks are available to purchase without having to order the other channels as well.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

First of all I don't think that the same regulationa apply to satellite and cable. amybe they should butt hey do not. Second i could be wrong but I believe that the national feed of WTBS is in the basic programming but the true local feed is in with the other locals.


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Buzz. No SHVIA violation here. All DirecTV is required to do is carry "all or none" of the locals. And to carry them all on the same sat, and list them all in the guide. They do that.

My heart bleeds for local stations being "discriminated" against. May have to cut back to one trip to Europe per year.

WTBS-17 Atlanta and Superstation TBS are 2 different channels, as are WGN-9 Chicago and WGN Entertaining America.

The national sub-networks (which nobody watches anyway, BTW) are all must carry, and are happy to be on the system at all.

To be "safe" DirecTV should continue to do whatever the free market wants, and if it doesn't suit you, you have cable, E* or BUD, which may have different packages that suit you.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Brett - get a life...


----------



## catman (Jun 27, 2002)

Wait til YOU scooper get laid off . Then we can tell you to get a job . There is no jobs to be had . The soup lines are not for welfare anymore . Those are the working poor . And if you think it is all rosy . think again


----------



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

catman said:


> Wait til YOU scooper get laid off . Then we can tell you to get a job . There is no jobs to be had . The soup lines are not for welfare anymore . Those are the working poor . And if you think it is all rosy . think again


What soup lines?


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I'm not seeing souplines - but yes I'm concerned.

Where did you make that leap from anyway - I was commenting on Brett's obsession about D* supposed "violations of SHIVIA" than about jobs. Sheesh...


----------



## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

cj9788 said:


> Wha Wha What?!?!?
> 
> Sorry to go off topic of the thread but:
> 
> ...


Wow. You have obviously not looked for a job within the last year or so. Get a clue. Jobs which are being RIF'ed are being sent promptly overseas to India, China and Mexico. How is a US worker supposed to compete with that?

I know people with Phd's who are out of work. I know people with years of experience and excellent resumes who are out of work. What do you have to say about them?

Unemployment benefits aren't "handouts". They're insurance. You pay into the system while you're employed, so that in the event that you're unemployed you have money to help pay your bills. It's not a handout, and it's definitely not welfare.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You got that right raj2001. There were hundreds of jobs lost just down the road and that did a domino effect around here. People forget about things like that. They decided that they wanted to move the operation of this factory to Mexico for 25 cents an hour for the labor. I know of people that still have not found a job to replace what they have lost and have a very hard time finding a job at all, and sometimes when you do find a job, its not full time, and you have to settle for less pay again just like you are having to start all over again. People around here do not want to pay above minimum wage or not much above it.


----------



## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well going back to locals if DirecTV charges you too much for locals go with the cable company or get an OTA antenna. If you are really concerned about $$ use OTA and live with some snow. I know there are some in white areas, but there should not be many in GA if you use a big antenna.


----------



## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

cj9788 said:


> As to the original thread dish net locals are 5.99 a month regardless of at50 at100 at150 or americas everything pak.


Actually, they are a $1 LESS on AT50 w/locals value pak & the AEP.


----------



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

SamC said:


> Buzz. No SHVIA violation here. All DirecTV is required to do is carry "all or none" of the locals. And to carry them all on the same sat, and list them all in the guide. They do that.
> 
> My heart bleeds for local stations being "discriminated" against. May have to cut back to one trip to Europe per year.
> 
> ...


I agree in the grand scheme of things mustcarry is totally stupid and I myself dont watch the mustcarry or national PAX, Univision etc.. However, if cable and Echostar are following the rules, and DirecTV violates them, it gives DirecTV an unfair and illegal advantage over its competitors.

I showed the FCC link in the other forum.


----------



## CrankyYankee (Feb 19, 2003)

As far as I can tell, cable companies must offer "Basic/Lifeline" service as a separate service with no requirement to purchase any other service.

However...cable must have you take "Basic/Lifeline" service before they can sell you any additional services. As a cable customer, you can buy "Basic/Lifeline" service, jump over the channels like CNN/TNN/ESPN and the like and subscribe to HBO/Showtime.

I think DISH will sell you just HBO if that's all you want, but they will charge you more for that service than if you picked up a package along with it, and that price is more than ordering it from cable, but again, factor in that you have to have "Basic" cable in order to purchace HBO.


----------



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

The cable regulations are different. Cable could just bundle locals with some cable networks. Local franchising authorities however usually regulate the lowest level of service. The locals have to be in the lowest tier by cable mustcarry regulations.

As for cable companies handling premium channels, there is another law that is applicable but not really enforced, and it does not apply to the DBS providers anyways. The cable company could just move all premiums to digital cable, as some systems have been doing. Analog cable is FCC over-regulated, but digital cable tiers are minimally regulated.

Back to DirecTV: In Atlanta, DirecTV sells WTBS 17 in Total Choice, and does not require the customer pay the Total Choice with locals rate. DirecTV doesnt have to sell an only local channels packaging, but in a given market DirecTV does local channel service, SHVIA governs it, and SHVIA instructs the providers to



> provide access to such station's signals at a nondiscriminatory price


The FCC interpreted:



> The Commission determined that, instead, Section 338's anti-discrimination language prohibits satellite carriers from implementing pricing schemes that effectively deter subscribers from purchasing some, but not all, local television station signals.


By a viewer in Philadelphia getting the national Univision and PAX feed in Total Choice, we are getting a copy of the same signal, which carries the same copyrighted content, that the local affiliate WUVP and WPPX is airing. The local stations are owned by the same company that is offering the providers the national feeds. However, the customer is required to pay further for additional and competing station's signals, and in order to get the competing stations signals, one must take the basic package.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-01-249A1.pdf



scooper said:


> Brett - get a life...


Whatever...

_Post edited - ND_


----------



## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

WTBS is not in Total Choice for Atlanta customers.

I think putting independent stations on another satellite, like E* does, is more discrimination than what D* is doing.


----------



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

WTBS 17 is in Total Choice in Atlanta, according to RichF.

http://www.dbsforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001715



> Customers in Atlanta will not have to purchase local channels to receive the local TBS feed -- all packages that currently authorize customers for the TBS national feed will automatically authorize customers for the local TBS feed.


----------



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

Curtis0620 said:


> I think putting independent stations on another satellite, like E* does, is more discrimination than what D* is doing.


I agree. But, the FCC and others already noted it. Atleast, E* did correct themselves after the FCC gave its ruling.

I do see EPG information for all Phila. stations that are carried, even though I dont have 129. The locals are in contiguous order also. Also, Dish doesnt charge extra for (in pricing or initial hardware upgrade) for the remaining stations on 129. Dish has met FCC compliance.

I think it was deceptive on E* part to say to the FCC putting the mustcarries on the wing satellite was temporary. It seems E* plans to keep it like this for the long time being.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

> I think it was deceptive on E* part to say to the FCC putting the mustcarries on the wing satellite was temporary. It seems E* plans to keep it like this for the long time being.


So, Brett, are you here just to complain about things over which you have no control? That issue was hashed out here long ago. What is your point? Surely you must have more worthwhile and productive things to do with your time.


----------



## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Brett said:


> I agree. But, the FCC and others already noted it. Atleast, E* did correct themselves after the FCC gave its ruling.
> 
> I do see EPG information for all Phila. stations that are carried, even though I dont have 129. The locals are in contiguous order also. Also, Dish doesnt charge extra for (in pricing or initial hardware upgrade) for the remaining stations on 129. Dish has met FCC compliance.
> 
> I think it was deceptive on E* part to say to the FCC putting the mustcarries on the wing satellite was temporary. It seems E* plans to keep it like this for the long time being.


Since you have E*, why are you complaining about D*? E* discriminates more against independent locals than D*.


----------



## Jtater (Jun 24, 2003)

Maybe he's pissed that us D* customers can receive all programming and locals without 19 dishes scattered throughout our property. And for the record D* will upgrade ones dish for free in order for them to recieve locals. There is a charge if you need a new receiver but it's only $49. If by cost you refer to the 12 month commitment, think about who in their right mind is going to give you anything for free just to see you cancel and sell the equipment on ebay 2 weeks later.


----------



## mhking (Oct 28, 2002)

Brett said:


> WTBS 17 is in Total Choice in Atlanta, according to RichF.
> 
> http://www.dbsforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001715


TBS Superstation/247 is blacked out here in Atlanta; WTBS/17 is on the Atlanta locals package. (I've got TC+ w/Atlanta locals & the sports package)


----------



## Brett (Jan 14, 2003)

If you cancel down to just Total Choice, you'll still have WTBS 17.


----------

