# Quick Vote For Feedback



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Just to get a good quick look at 11B, in terms of feedback....

*Please only vote ONCE YOU"VE HAD SOME TIME TO REALLY PUT IT THROUGH YOUR OWN LEVEL OF TESTING*.

Thank you.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Just to get a good quick look at 11B, in terms fo feedback....please vote.


Too early for me to give a vote that may be misleading. It looks good so far, but 119 did early on as well. Want to see if the IKD bug is gone.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

reach:

So far, based on the issues posted.

I would agree that this so far has the signs of the being the best software version todate. Not perfect... but certainly would classify as the release a lot of people waiting for.

If you did not download it on Friday... I highly recommend that you watch the threads to day... and see if you can sneek it in tonight.

The MORE feedback the better... 
If the trend continues... 0x11b has a very good shot at being the next national release, and the foundation the HR20 needs so that they can move onto adding features...

Including... possible.. maybe... DLB


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ditto, too early, but ok


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Hmmm. Earl, I thought you were gonna say Showcases. 

And for the record.... too early to vote here too, but I like it so far!


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## tbackus (Nov 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Including... possible.. maybe... DLB


Shame shame Earl.... teasing some of us like that....

although I'm scared DLB would screw things up more!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

*HEY OBERMI* http://www.dbstalk.com/member.php?u=11577

Why did you vote: 
"Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B "

When you are not even a DirecTV subscriber... let alone own an HR20?
At least according to your posts, and signature?

To everyone else... please take this thread (and all the threads in general) seriously...


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

Now that I haven't had DLB for so long, I really haven't missed it. It's just a matter of hitting the record button real quick if you want the DLB "trick" option. I am going to vote on this one in a day or so because I haven't been able to play around enough yet. Mine has run strong on almost all releases but there have always been some troubles I can relate with. This one is smooth so far. Most pre 0x011b recordings are coming up and are fully watchable which is always my biggest concern. I'd like to start on the "Features" todo list but I'm glad to be a part of making it stable first and foremost.

Sorry, I was just hoping to let people know to be sure to test it first - put it through the paces before submitting. I'd head up to the BUGS thread and start from the top and see if you can recreate these things before submitting to this thread. Great work on the thread BTW! :goodjob:


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

With both Santa and Elvis I had to RBR the next morning.

Not so this morning.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> reach: So far, based on the issues posted.
> I would agree that this so far has the signs of the being the best software version todate. Not perfect... but certainly would classify as the release a lot of people waiting for.
> If you did not download it on Friday... I highly recommend that you watch the threads to day... and see if you can sneek it in tonight.
> The MORE feedback the better...
> ...


DLB! DLB! DLB! :welcome: :welcome: :welcome:

I'd like to see this poll cleared on a daily basis so we can track any changes in results day by day.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

*NOTE*

I am going to play MODERATOR role on this thread.

If you vote: 
Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B

I am going to *REQUIRE* to state that issue in the issue thread.
Sorry to be a d!ck about it, but DirecTV is monitoring these threads... and they are looking for the actual representation of what is going on out there.

This is important to them... and DBSTalk.

Thus... I am reserving the right to change the "count" of that particular item.
I will not alter the counts of the others.


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> reach:
> 
> Including... possible.. maybe... DLB


HOORAY!!!!!!!!!
well we can hope anyway. all in due time.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *NOTE*
> 
> This is important to them... and DBSTalk.


...and *all* HR20 users for that matter.

Thanks Earl.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *NOTE*I am going to play MODERATOR role on this thread.
> If you vote:
> Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B
> I am going to *REQUIRE* to state that issue in the issue thread.
> ...


Thank you, Earl. Much needed.

I also think that if the issue is not posted within 10 minutes of the vote, the vote should be removed.


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

richlife said:


> I'd like to see this poll cleared on a daily basis so we can track any changes in results day by day.


THis may be a good idea, or perhaps it s/b removed and restarted fresh in 3 or 4 days? I voted, but right after felt, hmm maybe I should have waited a couple days.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HolmesCo said:


> THis may be a good idea, or perhaps it s/b removed and restarted fresh in 3 or 4 days? I voted, but right after felt, hmm maybe I should have waited a couple days.


The value of the poll is honest cumulative data - clearing it daily neuters that.

I also recommend anyone who is going to vote wait until they have the chance to test it out to *their own level of testing **FIRST*. That is what I added tot he first post soon after starting this thread.

I've spent about 4 hours pounding mine as hard as ever.


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## St Louis Cardinals Fan (Oct 22, 2006)

(DLB) That caught my attention :icon_cool

11B running very stable ( so far )


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I am looking forward to 11B tonight--I couldn't download it last night--and I know a lot of thought went into the poll questions, but what if the user had no problems under 115 or 119? The "about as good as 115 and 119" and "fantastic" responses would both be valid.

Part of the responses refer solely to 11b, but others compare it with the previous releases. It really should refer to 11B on its own merits, or to comparing it with something else, but all the answers should be mutually exclusive.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I'd also recommend, if you haven't already, to vote on Earl's thread up top "Release Candidate 0x11b" to show if/how you got it so we have an idea of how large this RC test is. The more people that download it to test it, the better quality feedback we'll get as well as DirecTV whom is _OBVIOUSLY_ watching this site (as seen by the 3 or more reps on the chat last night ) for much of their testing information.

*TAKE THESE POLLS SERIOUSLY!!! DO FULL TESTS!!! DBSTalk has helped us so we can help them back by being thorough! Most of all --> If you can, please help keep this site on top as every little bit helps!<--- Click here to donate.*


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## tjboyd (Oct 5, 2006)

Testing last night and this morning leads me to believe 11B is solid. I've watched show recorded with X115, X119 and X11B RC's with no problems. My HR20 does everything I've asked it to do. The latest glitch I've noticed is the "tearing" on the Guide is a very minor annoyance at best. As I have stated before, I'm no Technophile, I'm just an average user who benefited from this forum.


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## bc3tech (Jan 3, 2007)

latest finding

watching recorded (with 10b) HD program "the office" from past week and noticing _slightly_ delayed audio. does not go away by "skip back" or FF or stop/start.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

bc3tech said:


> latest finding
> 
> watching recorded (with 10b) HD program "the office" from past week and noticing _slightly_ delayed audio. does not go away by "skip back" or FF or stop/start.


Did you post this on the 0x11b Issues thread or do you think it may have to do with the stability trouble of the 10b and audio dropouts?


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## Just J (Oct 11, 2006)

richlife said:


> Earl Bonovich said:
> 
> 
> > the foundation the HR20 needs so that they can move onto adding features...
> ...























(I voted Excellent - only one minor problem, the padding quirk I reported in the issues thread. And I've banged away at it fairly hard.)


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## jtm (Dec 14, 2006)

I voted "Fantastic" based on the description, but I must admit that I had no problems with 115 or 119 either. I think we're getting closer!


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## plewis (Sep 6, 2006)

Okay, newbie here... What's DLB?
Thank you for info.


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## Damnitjim (Dec 15, 2006)

not sure what dlb is or stands for sorry I'm nob at some of this 11b seem solid sofar did play with some


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## S. DiThomas (Oct 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> reach:
> 
> So far, based on the issues posted.
> 
> I would agree that this so far has the signs of the being the best software version todate. Not perfect... but certainly would classify as the release a lot of people waiting for.


Somone is counting chickens way way way too soon. Optimistic Earl? With the tearing issues I would not be. That is a very significant new and annoying issue that shows a fundamental programming change/issue.

Miss one item, miss many. From the reports I have read today 1/12/2007 this release needs at least 5 days of testing, rebooting and recording to even consider its true colors.


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

plewis said:


> Okay, newbie here... What's DLB?
> Thank you for info.


Dual live buffers. The DirecTV with Tivo recievers spoiled us with this. It is the ability to switch between both tuners and pause, rewind, etc. The buffer was 1/2 hour with the TIVO's unless you hacked it and made it bigger. So you could watch one program live, pause it, switch to the other tuner, watch it, and when you came back to the original tuner and it would still be paused. I use to use this for watching every play of 2 live sporting events at the same time.

Anyhow, you'll see posts on here continuously from the minority of people who for some reason can't live without it. They are relentless!!! :beatdeadhorse:


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## Dukie (Feb 7, 2006)

Well, I've had to reboot once already (BSOD) today since 11B download last night.

I had 0 problems with 119.
I'm not ready to call this (11b) the greatest yet.

As much as I want DLB, the HR20 MUST be reliable!


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## snewo (Sep 30, 2006)

I voted excellent, only because I do see some of the guide tearing people are talking about. That being said, since my guide is clearer and faster I'd have to call this a very minor gripe.

I see the people clammering for DLB, I'd much rather have VOD via ethernet if you asked me.


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## plewis (Sep 6, 2006)

marty45714 said:


> Dual live buffers. The DirecTV with Tivo recievers spoiled us with this. It is the ability to switch between both tuners and pause, rewind, etc. The buffer was 1/2 hour with the TIVO's unless you hacked it and made it bigger. So you could watch one program live, pause it, switch to the other tuner, watch it, and when you came back to the original tuner and it would still be paused. I use to use this for watching every play of 2 live sporting events at the same time.
> 
> Anyhow, you'll see posts on here continuously from the minority of people who for some reason can't live without it. They are relentless!!! :beatdeadhorse:


Thank you for the definition.
I also used the HR10-250 and did appreciate the ability to pause and switch tuners without recording. So, I'd be in favor, but I've survived so far and found ways around. Would love to see it happen though. It was a good tool.


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## rpl47 (Aug 20, 2006)

Check back on all the threads immediately following a software release. ALL have been positive...until you get to day 3,4,5,...then they get nasty!


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## Dukie (Feb 7, 2006)

S. DiThomas said:


> From the reports I have read today 1/12/2007 this release needs at least 5 days of testing, rebooting and recording to even consider its true colors.


Absolutely!

And after 1 BSOD already with 11B ...the color is muddy brown.


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## brewer4 (Aug 19, 2006)

rpl47 said:


> Check back on all the threads immediately following a software release. ALL have been positive...until you get to day 3,4,5,...then they get nasty!


I would agree to some degree but I had very reproducible issues. I tried several of them and so far the unit has passed with flying colors. Does it mean there are no bugs and some might show up, no, but so far its a great start. I got issues immediately after 10b, 115 and it stabilized somewhat with 119 but I could still get a lock. So definately lets look 5 days out but again, the immediate feedback recommends for more folks to download 11b.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

S. DiThomas said:


> Somone is counting chickens way way way too soon. Optimistic Earl? With the tearing issues I would not be. That is a very significant new and annoying issue that shows a fundamental programming change/issue.
> 
> Miss one item, miss many. From the reports I have read today 1/12/2007 this release needs at least 5 days of testing, rebooting and recording to even consider its true colors.


I am not counting any chickens yet.

While the "tearing" is an issue... it is not a reliability issue... and something that hsould be realtiavely easy to fix.

But if history serves right... after each of the previous release candidates... the issue reports where coming in FAST and furious the next morning... even that night.

Hence why I am optimistic...


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

I voted "Draw" because I haven't noticed any changes for good or bad. I've had very few problems since installation in October. I have had the minor issues reported by others (i.e. Pinky, trickplay inconsistent, audio dropouts, etc.) but have had only one BSOD during the first couple weeks. I would like the CC problems fixed and the "Channels I Receive" issue with scheduling recordings, but from a stability POV mine has been acceptable.
Here's hoping that the next several days demonstrate a level of stability that's acceptable for the majority.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But if history serves right... after each of the previous release candidates... the issue reports where coming in FAST and furious the next morning... even that night.


True. Like a car...if you don't have problems the first day or two (or simulations of use for those days)...odds are you either won't have any significant remaining issues or they'll be small. Big problems, especially with 1000+ testers pounding away on their remotes, show up pretty quickly.

For that reason alone...there is good reason to be cautiously optimistic that this one is a solid national release candidate.


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## iceman2a (Dec 30, 2005)

I think it's early, but based on what I tried last night and this am b4 I left for work, I voted exelent, the guide speed and improvements in trick play I think justify that!


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

marty45714 said:


> :beatdeadhorse:


WOO HOO...It made the smiley list...


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## Marty B (Sep 21, 2006)

I retract my vote. I voted that it still had problems since I had two lockups and 3 unplayable recordings last night. I just went and verified that I had 11b only to find that my box had somehow reverted back to 115. WTF?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

wmschultz said:


> WOO HOO...It made the smiley list...


yes it did..

so did

reach:


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

MINORITY????????

PLEASE SIR READ THE POLLS AND THE WISH LIST AND YOU WILL CORRECT YOUR STATEMENT......THE MAJORITY WISHES WE HAD DLB...........


Originally Posted by marty45714 
Dual live buffers. The DirecTV with Tivo recievers spoiled us with this. It is the ability to switch between both tuners and pause, rewind, etc. The buffer was 1/2 hour with the TIVO's unless you hacked it and made it bigger. So you could watch one program live, pause it, switch to the other tuner, watch it, and when you came back to the original tuner and it would still be paused. I use to use this for watching every play of 2 live sporting events at the same time.

Anyhow, you'll see posts on here continuously from the minority of people who for some reason can't live without it. They are relentless!!! ]


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

If we can get through 11B, maybe DLB is something that will lead future discussions.

In the mean time, we have to stay focused and validate just how good 11B is. 

Early voting is quite positive.


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## S. DiThomas (Oct 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am not counting any chickens yet.
> 
> While the "tearing" is an issue... it is not a reliability issue... and something that hsould be realtiavely easy to fix.
> 
> ...


You of all would know better than most of us about the issues comming on fast and furious. I hope that the chickens come and they don't bring foxes.

Tearing sugests to me that the programers are altering code inadvertantly (?rushing in) when fixing other issues and generally not paying attention to issues they create to fix some other issues.

I will be -as HDTVfan0001 would say - cautiously optimistic until my first BSOD or missed recording. :computer:


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## jaybee (Jun 22, 2006)

The DLB feature would relly be nice. Maybe I'm just lazy, but it would be really nice to have the "Scheduler" be an option off the primary "Menu" list. I find that I mostly go to the Playlist and Scheduler more often than I go to some of the other options. It would save a few drill down actions for me.


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## sraider (Aug 6, 2006)

DLB would be very nice.

Yah know Earl Jan 26 is Australia Day. Any new RC with new features for the HR20? Any hints to what new feature they will activate next?. Running Raven now. No problems at all with it.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

S. DiThomas said:


> Tearing sugests to me that the programers are altering code inadvertantly (?rushing in) when fixing other issues and generally not paying attention to issues they create to fix some other issues.


This seems to revert to what Earl has been preaching (and making sense) about making the box _stable_ first and foremost. Once that is worked out, the inadvertent stuff would be a cakewalk to fix and make work because there would always be a solid release to fall back on. I just hope they continue to have RC's for us instead of bringing the project back into the shop once they've got a stable candidate.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

jheda said:


> PLEASE SIR READ THE POLLS AND THE WISH LIST AND YOU WILL CORRECT YOUR STATEMENT......THE MAJORITY WISHES WE HAD DLB...........


That's not even what he said. Read the post. He said that there is a minority of people who "can't live without it." The people who say that they will never get an HR20 until it has this feature. They are most certainly in the minority, so don't be so indignant.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

DLB will be a nice feature once its offered, and will certainly make some folks quite happy.

That said, job #1 is to get all of the base HR20 functionality solid for the mainstream user. Bells & whistles can come soon after that.

In the mean time, the % of positive reports on Release Candidate 11B here in this poll is actually increasing over time. *We still need more input once folks have tested out their units* to their satisfaction.

:backtotop


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am not counting any chickens yet.
> 
> While the "tearing" is an issue... it is not a reliability issue... and something that hsould be realtiavely easy to fix.
> 
> ...


Same here.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> DLB will be a nice feature once its offered, and will certainly make some folks quite happy.
> 
> That said, job #1 is to get all of the base HR20 functionality solid for the mainstream user. Bells & whistles can come soon after that.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I REALLY want dual buffers. However, I want reliable record/playback first (i.e., no more IKD bug), and also want padding to work properly.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

I voted draw....As I am still having issues with my OTA (They have been noted in the proper thread). Other than that everything has been rock solid for me.


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## Barmat (Aug 27, 2006)

Very good so far only one hicup.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

I've noted enough times to be boring -- that my HR20 has been solid since Santa. So, now, I'm looking around for problems bothering other folks that I wouldn't usually bump into with [my] standard usage.

Can't check Caller ID. Got rid of the crappy teleco months ago.

Closed Captioning? Never checked it before; so, I have no idea if it was or wasn't working properly; but, it does look just as it does at my niece's home. She's profoundly deaf and has relied on CC for decades.

She's not a D* customer.

DLB would be nice -- till my thumb forgets how to do it.  Wonder if the implementation would be the same as TiVo, anyway?


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## alv (Aug 13, 2002)

Caller ID not working properly here. I didn't vote yet because last time issues showed up days later.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm still not voting [yet], but I think 011C should be the next national release. Stability wise I haven't had a problem. Pinky lives [maybe more than before], and I do find the video tearing to be a bother.
What should be worked on though before this goes national is: the OTA setup. The OTA has been so poor that I haven't done much more than set it up with 010B. This update seemed to have improved the reception [I think], which had me start playing with adding a secondary zip code. Well this seemed to be more of a dream than a fact. The HR-20 does seem to have less drop outs than before. Still isn't as good as some other tuners for OTA. So I though I would remove the secondary channels. The bottom line is: I lost all of my OTA channels. I played with everything to get anything back & found no way to get them back, until I did a RESET EVERYTHING. I think this should have a little more attention before this goes national. Sure would be a mess for "the average customer" IMO.


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## Machpelah (Jan 7, 2007)

My old HR20 was crashing +5 times a day, so I went ahead and had D* send me a new HR20 (based on your recommendation, Earl :bowdown: ).

I've got my new HR20 and it is working GREAT!! :righton: (No crashes yet...:joy

However, I'm tempted to go ahead an get this new upgrade, since I'm hearing such good things about it. Do I dare? :scratch:

Wife is voting: No! :ramblinon


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Ed Campbell said:


> I've noted enough times to be boring -- that my HR20 has been solid since Santa.


You enjoy tempting fate, dont you?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Machpelah said:


> My old HR20 was crashing +5 times a day, so I went ahead and had D* send me a new HR20 (based on your recommendation, Earl :bowdown: ).
> 
> I've got my new HR20 and it is working GREAT!! :righton: (No crashes yet...:joy
> 
> ...


I'm very happy with the stability of 0x11B. In my testing today I have three HR20s in one room: 1 at 0x10b, 1 at 0x119, and 1 at 0x11B. I have managed to crash the 0x119, but neither of the other two. I've run lots and lots of trickplays, in and out of menus, channel changes, guides up and guides down, PIL, even reconnected the network (tho none of them currrently see the MW11 server yet.)

I guess part of the answer depends on what version you are running today and what version will be deployed to your house before this release gets out. If you were on 0x119, I'd think about moving up tonight. If you are solid and on the far east coast, you might wait for the national release.

Good luck,
Tom


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Machpelah said:


> Do I dare? :scratch:


No harm in trying out the new software...and it does seem better. You can always revert back if you choose.


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## rpl47 (Aug 20, 2006)

Machpelah said:


> My old HR20 was crashing +5 times a day, so I went ahead and had D* send me a new HR20 (based on your recommendation, Earl :bowdown: ).
> 
> I've got my new HR20 and it is working GREAT!! :righton: (No crashes yet...:joy
> 
> ...


Was your replacement new or refurb.? Silver or black?


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

I am really hopeful from the posts here. I haven't voted yet. I would have to vote "fantastic" at the moment, but its been less than 24 hours, and I really havn't given it much work just yet. There are no Islanders games till Friday, due to the All-Star break (hockey is my main test for reliability - does it record or cancel, will it let me watch the recording, will it go all FUBAR during the frequent trick plays?). I had noted that I had a weird BSOD variation with 119, which was the last straw with that dog (no offense to my really good dog). Since the BSOD occured during the Raven window, I upgraded.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Machpelah said:


> My old HR20 was crashing +5 times a day, so I went ahead and had D* send me a new HR20 (based on your recommendation, Earl :bowdown: ).
> 
> I've got my new HR20 and it is working GREAT!! :righton: (No crashes yet...:joy
> 
> ...


If you have 10b, stand pat. That was the last stable release until 11b. If you have 115 or 119, get the update before your HR20 does start crashing on you.


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## kaminsco (Nov 27, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm still not voting [yet], .....The OTA has been so poor that I haven't done much more than set it up with 010B. This update seemed to have improved the reception [I think], which had me start playing with adding a secondary zip code. Well this seemed to be more of a dream than a fact...
> 
> . Still isn't as good as some other tuners for OTA. I
> 
> IMO.


I am in the same camp here and similair to DCSholtis. did not have stability problems with 10b. I am not voting, the OTA is below expectations. (I have posted my issue in the other thread)


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## Cyrus (Oct 22, 2006)

Dukie said:


> Well, I've had to reboot once already (BSOD) today since 11B download last night.
> 
> I had 0 problems with 119.
> I'm not ready to call this (11b) the greatest yet.


I was hoping they had nailed the black screen problem in 11b but I guess not. It's an intermittent problem that has always been around. I had it happen once with 108 and twice with 119. That's the only problem I have had recently with my hr20. I will be upgrading to 11b tonight.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Machpelah said:


> However, I'm tempted to go ahead an get this new upgrade, since I'm hearing such good things about it. Do I dare? :scratch:
> Wife is voting: No! :ramblinon


Aren't we to keep fixing them until they're broken?


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## Machpelah (Jan 7, 2007)

rpl47 said:


> Was your replacement new or refurb.? Silver or black?


I got the silver.


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## Machpelah (Jan 7, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Aren't we to keep fixing them until they're broken?


That's what I'm afraid of! :lol:

Heck, I'm even walking around the new HR20 softly, so I won't tick it off. :grin:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Going by past history of the HR20, this would be fantastic. But voting on my expectations for true excellence in DVR expereince, I had to go with Very Good. More than 1 hiccups, CC being the worst IMHO. The rest are all cosmetic nits. And based on the release notes, I completely agree that stability was most important, I did not expect nor want the nits to be gone before this release was sent.

The real importance is that this is an excellent step forward! Keep up the good work! 
Tom


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

kaminsco said:


> I am in the same camp here and similair to DCSholtis. did not have stability problems with 10b. I am not voting, the OTA is below expectations.


You are in the minority on both counts. 10B had numerous major issues (which is why there have been 3 release Candidates since.

Also, OTA is working great for just about everyone with 11B so far. That's why there is an 85% or higher Very Good or higher voting level.


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## bgullicksen (Oct 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> reach:
> 
> So far, based on the issues posted.
> 
> ...


11B definately seems to be the best one yet. I have seen the guide tearing problem that others have mentioned and it doesn't take much effort to produce it. Pinky is still floating around in there as well, but other than that I have not had any other problems. I have been trying hard to force the black screen reboot, but haven't been able to make it happen yet.


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## WolfpackSully (Oct 22, 2006)

I won't vote yet. I'm 0 for 3 recording with 3 restarts today. My box doesn't really seem to be representative of the norm though as I've always had significant problems. I supposed I should have it replaced, but I haven't made the time to watch Return of the King yet! :grin: 

Sully


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

PolishPoet said:


> Should I see the local OTA channels in the channel Guide? Setup found all of them but they are not listed.


If you're using a Favorites list, you may need to add them to the list.


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## HateComCrap (Dec 29, 2006)

Caller ID still not working


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

OTA tuner sensitivity worse yet in this release. Got steadily worse since 115. With each new release, I lose more and more channels to the 771 searching for signal bug.


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## PolishPoet (Dec 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> If you're using a Favorites list, you may need to add them to the list.


Thanks, That's exactly what it was.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

No problems yet and Pinky not seen yet. 

If you're having to rerun the OTA setup to try and get you locals, be sure to key in the numbers of your zip code even if they are there. The system seems to have trouble recognizing the default sometimes. That's what bit me the first time. Ok since.  

GH


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

S. DiThomas said:


> ...Tearing sugests to me that the programers are altering code inadvertantly (?rushing in) when fixing other issues and generally not paying attention to issues they create to fix some other issues....


I'm astonished anyone could say that. It's very clear that they altered the code to speed up the Guide scrolling. There are countless things that could cause "tearing" when you mess with scrolling. I agree with Earl that this is probably minor and quickly fixable.

Several hours after downloading and using, I voted Fantastic. After 7 additional straight hours of watching live and recorded shows, checking various "problems" I read about here, I just haven't seen any problems of note. (The worst is the occassional instantaneous drop of audio or breakup of video for which the source was not identifiable.) The recordings and all use of Trick Play have been rock solid. This release is a winner and I don't see why a BSB on occasion would change my mind.

As far as I'm concerned, the biggest current problem remains that a reboot (RBR or software reset) causes the Guide to reload. If the Guide was saved, a reboot would be a quick fix for almost all problems with only a minor and temporary loss of service. Having to wait for the Guide to 1) load and 2) repopulate is what makes this an issue. Programmers take note, fix this, fix most of the negative perception.

And if I wake up once a week (my typical for the past three releases) to find a BSB and must reboot? It cost me a few minutes and the time to restock the Guide. At most an inconvenience. If the recordings are there and there are no spontaneous reboots, then its a good release. If there are no major problems (as I'm seeing) then the release is Fantastic.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

I just want the timer padding to be fixed........pleeze? 

And for that matter, I really think we should be waiting about a week before voting. I thought 10b was going to be the be-all, end-all and for me it was, for a WEEK. Then, on the seventh day, RBR after RBR! Pardon me if I reserve my vote until next weekend. :lol:


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I picked the second one because I just had an audio drop on the OTA local watching SNL. It was completely gone and I couldn't get it back but I eventually did by pushing the ACTIVE button on the remote. I'm guessing that I probably could have changed the channel but didn't get a chance to try it. Also, when the audio dropped, I hit the record button before I tried to get the audio back and when I did get it back the audio was there on the whole recording - about 5 minutes worth of back recording.

OTA had slight audio drops with complete loss of audio...

I switched to DirecTV locals and could hear the same type of drop but it wasn't a full drop, just some extra "chatter" on the sound. So actually, the D* feed was better than the OTA as it never dropped fully. SNL had a lot of trouble with their audio as well, bad mics and stuff.

I went from 0x115 to 0x11b


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Its probably a good idea to let the guides repopulate (at least a bit) after any reboot, as testing without letting that happen may either cloud or mislead any potential issues. to reiterate - PLEASE TEST UNTIL YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A GOOD RUN-THOUGH OF YOUR MACHINE BEFORE VOTING.

Having gone through 3 threads completely and 2 other smaller ones on specific items...it appears that a few folks were needing to reboot after they got the download to "clean the slate" in their HR20 - since then....those users have had 0 issues. As some other folks have said, it seems to be a good practice to do one reboot after any new firmware download (kinda like a PC new software install). The other observation is that this RC seems to be tested more extensively and sooner by "testers" this time. I personally used Milominderbinder2's Undocumented Tips and Tricks as a script for testing items, in addition to OTA and old recording tests.

That all said, over 85% satisfaction of a "very good" or better rating after 1 1/2 days is certainly the best results to date on a Release Candidate, and reinforces a good potential "vote of confidence" so far to roll this one out nationally.

We now have a 2nd group of "downloaders" from last night, and their feedback , along with those who have not voted from the first day, are most welcome here.


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## traderfjp (Dec 25, 2006)

With 115/119 I had 1 lockup in several days. With 11b I already have had 2 lockups in one day. I'd say that 119 was a better release. If I roll back what is the national release for the East Coast?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

traderfjp said:


> With 115/119 I had 1 lockup in several days. With 11b I already have had 2 lockups in one day. I'd say that 119 was a better release. If I roll back what is the national release for the East Coast?


0x10b


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

traderfjp said:


> With 115/119 I had 1 lockup in several days. With 11b I already have had 2 lockups in one day. I'd say that 119 was a better release. If I roll back what is the national release for the East Coast?


Did you do a reboot after the download was done, and allowed time for the guide to reload (at least for a few hours)?

If not, that could be the reason, and a reboot should help going forward. If you did a reboot and are stil having the problem, there may be other "issues" at your location.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

At 36 hours, 0x119 had 281 issue posts. In the same time period 0x11B has 120 issue posts. That is a big difference. Many of the 120 should be moved to the discussion thread as they are "I don't have a problem", previous missing features, or off-topic.

During the 0x11B chat session, the talk was about anything but HR20 issues. 0x119 was a different story.

In the 0x119 survey, 19% of users said to not release it nationally.

As of this morning, 457 people said in the poll that they now have 0x11B. 4 report that 0x11B is worse than previous releases.

0x11B's big issue is tearing, not crashing.

Granted these are early indicators but 0x11B is getting the best exit polling we have seen.

- Craig


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## mgcsooner (Dec 18, 2004)

Re Poll, what is not so obvious is that there are potentially three different upgrade classes to x01B--from 0B, from 115, from 119. Each might answer slightlyn different. There were some of us that had one or no problems with 115. Collecting them all together somewhat confuses the issue. I guess I was lucky as I fell asleep too early for 119. 

As this group expands which it seems to be doing, it might make sense to collect the prior load they ran on. One thing I would ask for on behalf of the many volunteers is the ability if going backward to fallback only one version. I think some 119 people didn't like the choice of 119 or 0b when 115 ran so well.

Also good call Earl on vote buster trying to screw with the results.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Groundhog45 said:


> No problems yet and Pinky not seen yet.
> 
> If you're having to rerun the OTA setup to try and get you locals, be sure to key in the numbers of your zip code even if they are there. The system seems to have trouble recognizing the default sometimes. That's what bit me the first time. Ok since.
> 
> GH


The only channels I am getting are the prime -1 channels with the exception of 18. I would presume you are not getting the -2 and -3 weather channels, are you?

I got this email from kvue.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76429


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The value of the poll is honest cumulative data - clearing it daily neuters that.
> 
> I also recommend anyone who is going to vote wait until they have the chance to test it out to *their own level of testing **FIRST*. That is what I added tot he first post soon after starting this thread.
> 
> I've spent about 4 hours pounding mine as hard as ever.


Heres exactly what I meant about waiting for this poll. THough I voted no problems when the poll came out, and some extensive testing of my own, I now have a MAJOR PROBLEM. My remote stops working, and I am not the only one, there are two others who have reported it in the issues thread. So its not honest cumulative data when you cannot do a re-polling every 2 days or so.

In fact I think that would give a much better overall curve of how things are trending 1st poll: x% no problems, 2nd poll x% no problems. Gives a sort of overview of how it progresses in real time. It's a thought anyway.

Mostly this poll probably is a pretty fair indicator of things,,but we should probably do another one on monday or tuesday.

I have a vote in there stating theres no problem, which now is completely wrong. I have in fact, a very major problem. So at least now I know next time to wait before responding, like some did. Seems extensive testing really involves a full day or two.


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## Dukie (Feb 7, 2006)

"Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B "

The problem here is the comparison of 11b to 10b.

In my case I had 1 BSOD problem yesterday morning after Friday's 11b DL.
(0 problems the rest of yesterday and today).

My 119 had 0 problems the week it was around.

I never downloaded 115 thanks to the poster compaints on this valuable forum.

10b (official release) was nothing but trouble for me.

Basically 11b is the holy grail compared to 10b (and 115 from what I read).
But compared to a zero defect 119..."Not so great".

I'm hoping that in a week I'll be able to change my vote to "Excellent - only 1 minor problem".


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Dukie said:


> "Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B "
> 
> The problem here is the comparison of 11b to 10b.
> 
> ...


You won't be able to change your vote, and based on the description of only 1 initial hiccup with no problems since, your vote should have been "very good". You were reading *way* too much into the other comparison. with 119.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Did you do a reboot after the download was done,


I was under the assumption that the new software does a Reboot for you after the initial download. Are you talking about a second reboot?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HolmesCo said:


> Heres exactly what I meant about waiting for this poll. Though I voted no problems when the poll came out, and some extensive testing of my own, I now have a MAJOR PROBLEM. My remote stops working, and I am not the only one, there are two others who have reported it in the issues thread.


If you have an issue with the remote (and I have only seen 3 posts on that, it may be *your* remote. They are mechanical, and some have been known to go bad, period. Also, did you follow the recommendation to do a full reboot before determining the remote was the issue?

In terms of the surveys, as people were repeated told to test first, vote second, the voting has been consistent now for almost 2 days and actually reflects and *increase* in the number of very good votes or better - that's never happened before - not even since even before 10B. Many of us have done weeks worth of normal usage in a day for testing purposes. I now have done over 16 full hours of trickplay keystrokes (hundreds), new MPEG4, MPEG2, and OTA recordings and playbacks, previous SD & HD program playbacks, menu checks (hundreds), guide checks (hundreds), and other tests. There are plenty of others here who have done that kind of testing or maybe even more.

While no poll will be completely accurate (exceptions to every rule), nor reflect the full base user population - its very clear that the results of this testing period and poll so far a clear and solid validation of the 11B release - it shows the best test results for users of any RC to date. I also had no problems with 115 or 119, yet clearly there were some out there that had problems.

Is RC 11B bug free - nope. 
Is it the best RC to date - yes. 
Is 11B a great national firmware candidate - yes.
Has 11B been tested extensively - yes (both by D*TV and testers in the field)
Are we getting close to a stable base firmware release that does all the fundamental things the HR20 should be doing - yes.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Coffey77 said:


> I was under the assumption that the new software does a Reboot for you after the initial download. Are you talking about a second reboot?


Yes, there was a reboot during the firmware download between the time of the download and the "seeking sat settings" phase, but as is the case with many PC software installs, it is always wise to do a reboot after all of the installation process is done, as to wipe out the slate clear and start operating after some time has passed for the guide to repopulate (there are a number of things dependent on the population of the guide).


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## snewo (Sep 30, 2006)

HolmesCo said:


> Heres exactly what I meant about waiting for this poll. THough I voted no problems when the poll came out, and some extensive testing of my own, I now have a MAJOR PROBLEM. My remote stops working, and I am not the only one, there are two others who have reported it in the issues thread. So its not honest cumulative data when you cannot do a re-polling every 2 days or so.
> 
> In fact I think that would give a much better overall curve of how things are trending 1st poll: x% no problems, 2nd poll x% no problems. Gives a sort of overview of how it progresses in real time. It's a thought anyway.
> 
> ...


The Remote not working has been around in every recent release as far as I know. I've had it twice since I got my HR20 last September. This is fixed by a Red Button Reset. It should just be noted that this release didn't solve this problem.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

snewo said:


> The Remote not working has been around in every recent release as far as I know. I've had it twice since I got my HR20 last September. This is fixed by a Red Button Reset. It should just be noted that this release didn't solve this problem.


Or he just may have a bad remote. A number of folks have reported this and actually gotten replacements. That's one thing for the "suggestion box" is a diagnostic test for the remote, much like the HR20 system test.


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

snewo said:


> The Remote not working has been around in every recent release as far as I know. I've had it twice since I got my HR20 last September. This is fixed by a Red Button Reset. It should just be noted that this release didn't solve this problem.


I didn't know that. I personally have never seen it, until 119. Nor did I ever read about it anywhere. But in this thread I was mostly just pointing out its probably best to wait for polling about a RC integrity till its been around a couple days. Just my opinion, and next time I won't vote for a couple days at least.


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Or he just may have a bad remote. A number of folks have reported this and actually gotten replacements. That's one thing for the "suggestion box" is a diagnostic test for the remote, much like the HR20 system test.


I wonder how many "remotes not working" reports are using their remotes in RF. I have had other RF capable remotes on other devices in the past and always had timing issues with them. I only use IR with remotes now as a result. I'm sure many people will say they use RF all the time and have no problems. I'm sure that may be true for them. Their environment will of course be different from others. I say do away with RF until the HR20 is more stable.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

SuperTech1 said:


> I wonder how many "remotes not working" reports are using their remotes in RF. I have had other RF capable remotes on other devices in the past and always had timing issues with them. I only use IR with remotes now as a result. I'm sure many people will say they use RF all the time and have no problems. I'm sure that may be true for them. Their environment will of course be different from others. I say do away with RF until the HR20 is more stable.


Good points. Thanks for sharing that, as it has been scattered in other threads and is good for all folks to know.


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## Vinny (Sep 2, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> 0x11B's big issue is tearing, not crashing.
> 
> Granted these are early indicators but 0x11B is getting the best exit polling we have seen.
> 
> - Craig


I agree. 11b is looking like the best release to date. As I have posted elsewhere; the only issues I have encountered are:

1) Audio Dropouts.
2) Screen Freeze while RW (but recovers)....not a deal breaker.
3) Slight tearing...again, not a deal breaker.

Looks like we are getting more stable and more reliable; but more work is needed.


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

SuperTech1 said:


> I wonder how many "remotes not working" reports are using their remotes in RF. I have had other RF capable remotes on other devices in the past and always had timing issues with them. I only use IR with remotes now as a result. I'm sure many people will say they use RF all the time and have no problems. I'm sure that may be true for them. Their environment will of course be different from others. I say do away with RF until the HR20 is more stable.


I have two remotes, so it definitely is not the remote itself. Both are RF, slightly idfferent models, but both fail in the exact same way. The problem is in the remote reception on the hr20. I think I may try going to IR if it happens again. One guy in the issues thread had this happen 3 times in a short period, then went to IR and as far as I know, has not had it happen since.

However further implications for the box itself, is that I even had erratic behavior during these perioids from the buttons ON THE HR20. Some of them did not work either.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *HEY OBERMI* http://www.dbstalk.com/member.php?u=11577
> 
> Why did you vote:
> "Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B "
> ...


not very active. 24 posts in 2 years


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## jaybee (Jun 22, 2006)

I have to change my vote from "fantastic" to either "draw" or "not so good". I've had two BSB that needed resets since Friday. I didn't participate in 115 or 119, but I may back off to 11b if I get one more BSB today.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> it is always wise to do a reboot after all of the installation process is done, as to wipe out the slate clear


A serious question -- what slate are we wiping clear? My understanding is that the new firmware completely overwrites the old. I don't see any difference in guide data (or anything else) if I do an extra reset after upgrade. Just confused as to the purpose and why some recommend doing this.

Now, a reformat -- that will give you a clean slate for sure


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bwaldron said:


> A serious question -- what slate are we wiping clear? Just confused as to the purpose and why some recommend doing this.


Referring to wiping out any potential "random data bits" in memory that may linger after a firmware update. This occasionally has been know to happen with PC software downloads as well, which is why many software firms recommend a reboot to "wipe clean" the memory. As has been posted by numerous others here, once this is done, most, if not all signs of problems disappear. A reformat is a last resort if nothing else works to eradicate strange or unwanted behavior.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

What exactly is tearing? 

no poblems so far, did not vote. I had one bsod when I got off work on Thursday(119)


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

machavez00 said:


> What exactly is tearing?


It where the guide seems to "split" in the center during scrolling due to a temporary brief lag in screen refresh for part of the screen.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It where the guide seems to "split" in the center during scrolling due to a temporary brief lag in screen refresh for part of the screen.


one side moves, the other doesn't?


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I voted a draw because I had the BSOD yesterday morning, but, for the first time, the called id is working. Still no OTA on 2-1 or 2-2 (mapped as 3-1 and 3-2, NBC here in Cleveland).


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One side moves, the other side lags a bit behind. There's another thread all about it for some folks who have seen it. It appears more often in 1080i setups and virtually never in 720p setups.


Well, as posted elsewhere, I only see it on my (768p) plasma when I'm using 720p and not in 480 or 1080i. Guess I'm unique 

It's not a big deal at any rate, and something I'm sure the developers will address.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

machavez00 said:


> one side moves, the other doesn't?


One side moves, the other side lags a bit behind. There's another thread all about it for some folks who have seen it. It reoirted in some 1080i setups and much less in 720p setups.


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## Dave_S (Jan 7, 2006)

OK, I voted "Fantastic". Both units that I downloaded 0x11B last night to are running great. Will keep testing to see if any problems pop up.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Dave_S said:


> OK, I voted "Fantastic". Both units that I downloaded 0x11B last night to are running great. Will keep testing to see if any problems pop up.


I'm sure that will come in handy for you watching the Patriots game coming up soon...


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Only minor glitch with the "tearing" issue but no others seen as yet. 10B was a disaster for my box and have not taken or received any releases since then, up until now. I can't honestly say that i trust it 100% at this point but it does appear to be a much more stable version than 10B.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Anyone wanna bet the next release is called the Super Bowl release...?....  :lol: 

In the mean time - we have 200 votes and continue to show a consistent 85% positive "very good" or better rating on 11B. It's been at that level now for almost 2 days and hundreds of testing hours by our fine group here.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

I want to back up what I voted... Although I've seen more issues with 0x11b compared to 0x10b, if I'm comparing 11b to 0x115 or 0x119 it has certainly improved.

Of the issues I've had with 11b in the last 18 hours of operation, they've been annoyances but not critical.

Critical = RBR required.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm not voting until at least a few days if not a week. I just don't think less than 24 hours (for me) or even 2 days (for others) is enough time to make a conclusion. I'd recommend starting another poll in a week if they haven't released another RC.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mtnagel said:


> I'm not voting until at least a few days if not a week. I just don't think less than 24 hours (for me) or even 2 days (for others) is enough time to make a conclusion. I'd recommend starting another poll in a week if they haven't released another RC.


In another week, its possible you may be seeing 11B as the new national base firmware.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In another week, its possible you may be seeing 11B as the new national base firmware.


Um, okay. What's your point? And if so, I'd still recommend starting a new poll.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mtnagel said:


> I'm not voting until at least a few days if not a week. I just don't think less than 24 hours (for me) or even 2 days (for others) is enough time to make a conclusion. I'd recommend starting another poll in a week if they haven't released another RC.


mtnagel,

I understand, I really do. I'm not, by any means, ready to call this gold! But, I can state that in the very short time allowed for testing before D* needs to make a decision, I have had no stability problems. My "vote", but itself, is totally useless. I've not had very many problems, in fact none with the previous release, 0x119 until I tested this weekend against 0x11B.

But, if many people, with many different configurations, test and stress the system a bit harder that first 48 hours, then the results from the masses will give an indication of stability. Better or worse. But it does not prove the negative--can't be done, alas.

Now, I am quite concerned about the people who have "never had a problem" until now. When dealing with timing issues and you see users who've never had problems suddenly develop problems, that tells me that the problems have not really been solved. Just adjusting timing does not fix race conditions; it merely shifts it from one user base to another. (For the most part.)

Can I ask you to consider this. Does your non-vote help D*? They need to decide tomorrow afternoon, or perhaps Tuesday. Sure, wait as long as you can.

And, I wouldn't be opposed to you or anyone restarting a new poll later in the week. I will gladly put my vote in for that one too.  That second poll might help D* if a RC needs to be stopped.

Cheers,
Tom


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mtnagel said:


> Um, okay. What's your point? And if so, I'd still recommend starting a new poll.


Go for it.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Okay, I mentioned this in the issues thread but I figured it's long enough now I can vote. Before a RBR, I would change the channel, it would go black for 15 seconds and then tune in. After the RBR, it works as normal.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

tibber said:


> mtnagel,
> 
> I understand, I really do. I'm not, by any means, ready to call this gold! But, I can state that in the very short time allowed for testing before D* needs to make a decision, I have had no stability problems. My "vote", but itself, is totally useless. I've not had very many problems, in fact none with the previous release, 0x119 until I tested this weekend against 0x11B.
> 
> ...


Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I didn't realize that D* used such a short amount of time before deciding whether to push a RC national. I guess if that's the point of the poll, then I could vote now so they get the initial data, but I still think we can't really make an accurate judgment until more time has passed.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Go for it.


Why does it feel like you are just trying to get the last word in?

Since you are the one that started this one, I figured you'd be the best person to start another


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Far too early to vote for me and IMO far too early for DTV to make any assumptions based on these poll results.

If I had to vote right now I'd vote either "Very Good" or "Excellent" since I haven't had any lost recordings or major glitches, However I would have given the same grade to 10b in the first 48 hours before having major problems. It usually took at least 5 days to a week for all the issues that were common to 10b to show up. I forced the upgrade to 11b Saturday night so I'll vote next Saturday. I think that should be the norm for most voters unless they're absolutely certain they know exactly how to replicate their past problems as well as verify a lack of new problems within a 48 hour period. I doubt that's possible.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mtnagel said:


> Why does it feel like you are just trying to get the last word in?
> 
> Since you are the one that started this one, I figured you'd be the best person to start another


No need. But if you want to...go for it.

You asked. I answered.


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## jfm (Nov 29, 2006)

Just had my first lockup requiring RBR under 0x11b. I posted details under 0x11b issues thread. I haven't voted yet because I need more time to gather data, but as of now I would vote Same as 0x115 or 0x119.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

For those "glass is half empty" folks - the poll indicates 92% of responders say the 11B release is at least as good as 115,119, or 10B *or better*. So even under their kind of "not so fast" approach, after 2 days worth of hundreds of people pounding on it testing it extensively, it would seem absolutely clear there is no reason *not* to go national with this one.... 

For those us with the "glass is half full" view - we remain roughly at 85% very good or better feedback on 11B.

The whole purpose of this is to get testers to test and provide feedback once they've done it to their satisfaction on 11B. Despite a few naysayers to the contrary, many testers visiting here have emulated weeks worth of keystrokes, recordings, playbacks, trick plays, OTA reception, menu changes, and other tests within the 2 days or so that we've had to play with 11B. The majority of respondents are still very positive on 11B.

Thanks to the many testers...feel free to continue providing your honest feedback once you are convinced you have sufficient testing done to express your vote.


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## jhrain (Jan 10, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *NOTE*
> 
> I am going to play MODERATOR role on this thread.
> 
> ...


We are still seeing the following issues.

1. FF is still choppy, no matter the speed
2. Dolby Digital Center Channel still dropping out (we've swapped out the Stereo receiver and all cables just to make sure). We use HDMI to TV and Digital out to Receiver (new SONY 982)
3. Black Screen of Death when we recorded Big Mama's House 2 (sorry I forgot the channel)
4. Local HD NBC through DTV voice and video out of sync, pausing fixes the problem
5. Picture is more grainy under 11b than 119 (is this possible or my imagination)
6. Slow menu's
7. Pinky is still hanging around 

As we gain some more time with this build, I'll know more.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jhrain said:


> We are still seeing the following issues.
> 
> 1. FF is still choppy, no matter the speed
> 2. Dolby Digital Center Channel still dropping out (we've swapped out the Stereo receiver and all cables just to make sure). We use HDMI to TV and Digital out to Receiver (new SONY 982)
> ...


When you say "*we*"...you are not speaking for me nor hundreds of others. I haven't seen any of those, and have over 17 hours of extensive testing on my 2 HR20's now over 2 days. If you are experiencing these, please report them in the issues thread, but let's not lump *your* results alone as though they more than that.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When you say "*we*"...you are not speaking for me nor hundreds of others. I haven't seen any of those, and have over 17 hours of extensive testing on my 2 HR20's now over 2 days. If you are experiencing these, please report them in the issues thread, but let's not lump *your* results alone as though they more than that.


I think by "we" he probably meant he and his family, not all HR20 users. 

(Note - just a gender guess)


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## jhrain (Jan 10, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When you say "*we*"...you are not speaking for me nor hundreds of others. I haven't seen any of those, and have over 17 hours of extensive testing on my 2 HR20's now over 2 days. If you are experiencing these, please report them in the issues thread, but let's not lump *your* results alone as though they more than that.


I would not dare speak for other DirecTV users. I am only speaking for myself, my family and my friends experiences.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

are too many of us not getting enough sleep?:new_sleep getting a little touchy


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

houskamp said:


> are too many of us not getting enough sleep?:new_sleep getting a little touchy


....need more testing....need more testing....stay awake....need more testing....keep your eyes open dude....need more testing.... :new_sleep 
:lol:


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Spanky_Partain said:


> The only channels I am getting are the prime -1 channels with the exception of 18. I would presume you are not getting the -2 and -3 weather channels, are you?
> 
> I got this email from kvue.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76429


18-2 is the only one I still get. I posted a thread in December talking about this and linking to the FCC rule. I first read about it on the Austin local forum at AVSforums. In December, 24-2 had a crawl message at the bottom notifying viewers that the channel would be discontinued on Jan. 1st. At first, it looked like only the cable feeds would be killed but then all of the broadcasters dropped the OTA sub channels except PBS. Oh well. I miss having a quick look at the local weather.

GH


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

hdtvfan001 and tibber, thanks for trying to encourage people to test and vote reasonably early (too bad we can't vote often :lol: ).

There will clearly be some people to conservative to go out on a limb a little with an opinion, but from my view this poll isn't for the hundreds who follow these forums, but the the 10s of thousands who have HR20s and are just using what they have -- normal D* customers. It's for them we should voice an opinion so that D* can make a considered decision about another national release. To say that 2 days or 2 weeks is too fast or too slow is ridiculous. When it hurts, stop the pain. When it doesn't hurt, sit back, breathe and enjoy. Right now it seems apparent that 119 hurts less.


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## ExUltimateTV (Oct 6, 2006)

While Raven is better than anything else to date, I can't call it "Very Good," and so the option I'd like to choose in the poll isn't available, so I didn't vote.

This is a tolerable release so far. For instance, trick play and channel changing (even with Native off) remain sluggish. Extended record doesn't work right, watching live TV that's being recorded doesn't show the record bar as starting from the beginning of the actual recording, etc.

Even ignoring all that, which is really hard for me given my better experiences with other DVRs (UTV and Tivo), how can anyone vote "Fantastic" when they've had it for only 50 hours or less? It'll take me over a month of not having to RBR the thing once to even consider it more than Very Good. This is being sold as an appliance, after all.


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## ejd (Aug 20, 2006)

As good as 119 or 115 is a bad thing.
1-2 hiccups in 2 days is a bad thing.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Voting "Fantastic" with some reservations. I did use 0x119 all day Saturday and Sunday, including OTA, "chase play" during OTA, watching a variety of live and recorded events, but I am too far behind in the list to watch something recorded under 0x119 at this point. 

High points of my experience thus far:
-Channel changes seem faster than they have been for some time. 
-Picture quality seems to be improved.
-Response time on trickplay buttons is definitely improved. 
-No issues so far on playback. 
-CC finally shows my choice of font and is satisfactory to me. 

But, as any Patriots fan will tell you, what looks good halfway in, can turn around and even when it's looking your way, things can turn around and leave you disappointed in the end.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ejd said:


> As good as 119 or 115 is a bad thing.
> 1-2 hiccups in 2 days is a bad thing.


Agreed.

That said, the idea is to determine (and test) if things have improved enough to release this version nationally.


lamontcranston said:


> But, as any Patriots fan will tell you, what looks good halfway in, can turn around and even when it's looking your way, things can turn around and leave you disappointed in the end.


Oooooo...that's gotta hurt.


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## bc3tech (Jan 3, 2007)

noticed another prob last nite during the pats & colts game... but not sure if it was CBS or my DVR. once i changed the channel & came back, tho, it went away.

there were gaps in the audio... not vid "jerkiness" but the audio woudl cut out and come back... would happen quite a bit then stop for a while then start back up again. i changed channel and came back and it didn't happen again.

this was HDTV, too.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bc3tech said:


> noticed another prob last nite during the pats & colts game... but not sure if it was CBS or my DVR. once i changed the channel & came back, tho, it went away.
> 
> there were gaps in the audio... not vid "jerkiness" but the audio woudl cut out and come back... would happen quite a bit then stop for a while then start back up again. i changed channel and came back and it didn't happen again.
> 
> this was HDTV, too.


Yeah...that's been reported elsewhere, even with Dish and Comcast customers, as well as other D*TV receivers (H20, for one) . There were clearly some "issues" with the network audio broadcasting on both the Fox and CBS games yersterday.

*POLL UPDATE* - with over 250 poll votes - it continues to run at about 92% equal to or higher rankings than previous release candidates in feedback voting and 84% overall ranked as "very good or better".

Seems 11B is still a viable & improved Release Candidate for national release consideration after 2 1/2 days of "field testing". Note: the Poll closes Tuesday at 11AM EST.


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## bc3tech (Jan 3, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah...that's been reported elsewhere, even with Dish and Comcast customers, as well as other D*TV receivers (H20, for one) . There were clearly some "issues" with the network audio broadcasting on both the Fox and CBS games yersterday.
> 
> *POLL UPDATE* - with over 250 poll votes - it continues to run at about 92% equal to or higher rankings than previous release candidates in feedback voting and 84% overall ranked as "very good or better".
> 
> Seems 11B is still a viable & improved Release Candidate for national release consideration after 2 1/2 days of "field testing". Note: the Poll closes Tuesday at 11AM EST.


i'm not going to vote cuz honestly it's not enough time. tho if it doesn't botch any HD recordings in the next 3 weeks i'll give it a thumbs up - but that remains to be seen.


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## swartzentruber (Nov 27, 2006)

ExUltimateTV said:


> While Raven is better than anything else to date, I can't call it "Very Good," and so the option I'd like to choose in the poll isn't available, so I didn't vote.
> 
> This is a tolerable release so far. For instance, trick play and channel changing (even with Native off) remain sluggish. Extended record doesn't work right, watching live TV that's being recorded doesn't show the record bar as starting from the beginning of the actual recording, etc.


Agree with above, so I haven't voted either. I honestly can't see any improvement over 10b to justify it as a release. It's definitely better than 115, but that release was awful. 10b has been very stable for me, so my vote would be don't release; not because Raven is bad, but because it represents no improvement that I can see, and the padding bug still hasn't been addressed.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

swartzentruber said:


> Agree with above, so I haven't voted either. I honestly can't see any improvement over 10b to justify it as a release. It's definitely better than 115, but that release was awful. 10b has been very stable for me, so my vote would be don't release; not because Raven is bad, but because it represents no improvement that I can see, and the padding bug still hasn't been addressed.


As Earl has noted when the release was available, this one is for stablization to address a number of specific stability bugs that *were* reported in 10B. based on your testimony, it would appear you have no new problems, which is a good thing. Thanks for your info. There's law requiring anyone to vote in this poll - its just useful to get feedback on how successful the stability fixes were..


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## swartzentruber (Nov 27, 2006)

Could I suggest another option for future polls? Maybe just add an option for no better, but no worse. I don't want to vote that "11b" is better, because that's not my experience, but if most people vote that it's about the same as a previous version, but some small minority vote it fixes something for them, then the release probably still makes sense. Allowing only a vote that a release is better or that it's worse may realistically leave out the majority of pollees.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

swartzentruber said:


> Could I suggest another option for future polls? Maybe just add an option for no better, but no worse. I don't want to vote that "11b" is better, because that's not my experience, but if most people vote that it's about the same as a previous version, but some small minority vote it fixes something for them, then the release probably still makes sense. Allowing only a vote that a release is better or that it's worse may realistically leave out the majority of pollees.


Good suggestion - right now, that would be the middle option "a draw".

Based on the good number of responses we've gotten so far, it might be a good idea if one of these is created by Earl for future releases as to capture the maximum benefit of feedback in the various categories.

LET ME RE-EMPHASIZE that the purpose of tracking how 11B is performing (in terms of overall stability) is to report this feedback for consideration of this release as a future new base national firmware version. As Earl has repeatedly pointed out, this release is primarily designed to address the HR20 stability problems reported previously (not new features or wish list items). Since the general pupulation of HR20 users don't have this firmware, our testing and results are helpful for the overall evaluation.

With 1 day left in the poll, your honest feedback/vote is always welcome to that end. Thanks to those who have already responded.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I voted as a draw. I've gotten mixed results with 0x11b. I did receive one spontaneous reboot on one of my HR20s, 0x115 was the only other release which that happened on, but it was very frequent with 0x115. My other HR20 is performing great which is starting to lead me to believe that the remaining problems are HDMI related (my HDMI receiver is now worse off than my Component receiver). I almost voted 0x11b was worse, but I can't honestly say that today. However, I can't say that it is better yet either.


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## richadam (Oct 28, 2006)

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth, or not. I voted about the same as 0x115. I did this because the unit has still not operated significantly better. While I have had no unwatchables yet, I have read about others who have. Therefore, I am not convinced that I won't yet either. Plus, the next choice up was only 1 or 2 problems, which I could not honestly vote for.

I have had multiple audio dropouts, half-screen artifacts that last for scores of frames, audio corruptions, etc. Much of this could possibly be placed at the foot of Fox as their NFL broadcast on FOX40 in Sac was really poor quaility, while the CBS game was an order of magnitude better, not problem-free however.

I purchased Pirates of the Caribbean on Friday and got stuck in an infinite UI loop asking me to purchase or cancel. I actually tried to cancel and could not do so. I kept trying everything I could to get back to a mode where I could just select a channel from the guide and watch TV. But I would always be redirected back to the purchase/cancel screen. Finally I just threw in the towel and purchased it. Of course it began recording starting the moment I made the purchase decision which was in the middle of the showing, as this was done "the next morning". Luckily, the show I selected was at 1:00AM, so I simply recorded another showing later to get the movie in its entirety. In the annals of HR20 annoyances, a minor league annoyance.

A sadly mediocre movie BTW.

In general, in terms of a national release decision. D* needs to look at releases from the perception of the subscribers. A new release carries an implication of measurably improved performance via stability, or new features. So, a release that is not perceptibly better (and I am not ready to absolutely say that 0x11b fails that metric yet) does not qualify for a rollout. But the larger point is that releasing a new version that has no perceptible improvement dilutes the value of all future releases in the mind of the subscriber base. So if I were D*, I would not be in such a rush to declare any version ready for a national roll out. If it REALLY kills the BSD's, the Keep/Delete, or unwatchable program bugs, then roll it out. From what I have been reading though, those kinds of bugs still exist in the user experience. Which makes me think that at some point, I will be bitten by them. But I have the scars of a real-time graphics programmer, so I have been trained to assume that bugs which exist will be inevitably experienced by the masses.

All in all, it seems that there were many fixes that I would be close to closing out in their bug database, but still not ready for prime time IMHO. I cautiously applaud the apparent step forward, and hope for another.

cautiously yours,
rda


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

richadam said:


> But the larger point is that releasing a new version that has no perceptible improvement dilutes the value of all future releases in the mind of the subscriber base. So if I were D*, I would not be in such a rush to declare any version ready for a national roll out.


We here know about the multiple releases, but what percentage of the actual number of HR20 users actually know about the updates? I would think that the easiest measured quantity at this point is the call volume. The call volume must be inversely proportional to the reliability/stability of the HR20 right now.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

As far as the poll goes, the last option is useless from an evaluation point of view.

There are two ways to do the poll. One involves "better/not better" questions. The other involves number and severity of issues questions. The two types really should not be combined. Any poll that combines the two gives the opportunity for two or more choices to be the right one for some people, which muddies the water.
Don't mean to make anyone mad, just trying to help.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> As far as the poll goes, the last option is useless from an evaluation point of view.
> 
> There are two ways to do the poll. One involves "better/not better" questions. The other involves number and severity of issues questions. The two types really should not be combined. Any poll that combines the two gives the opportunity for two or more choices to be the right one for some people, which muddies the water.
> Don't mean to make anyone mad, just trying to help.


I think that before you are allowed to post a poll, it should be a prerequisite to take a stats/polling class


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mtnagel said:


> I think that before you are allowed to post a poll, it should be a prerequisite to take a stats/polling class


Been there, done that. 

I'm not sure there could have been a more boring class in school than statistics.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> I'm not sure there could have been a more boring class in school than statistics.


Heh, I used to teach intro probability/stats in college.

Not necessarily saying I disagree


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

brott said:


> We here know about the multiple releases, but what percentage of the actual number of HR20 users actually know about the updates? I would think that the easiest measured quantity at this point is the call volume. The call volume must be inversely proportional to the reliability/stability of the HR20 right now.


I think you're correct that most users don't even notice updates, unless a new and obvious feature is added.

Call volume is a reasonable but imperfect indicator. Many of us have learned that calling a CSR about a DVR problem is pretty pointless. You are more likely than not to hear you are the first to report it. So you learn to use this forum as the best source of information.

Now, if I knew I had a major issue and wanted the box replaced, I'd certainly call.

So yes, the call volume should be correlated w/ problem increase/decrease, especially major bugs, but it won't accurately measure the incidence of minor issues nor will it assess degree of user satisfaction -- especially among the types of users who hang out here.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bwaldron said:


> I think you're correct that most users don't even notice updates, unless a new and obvious feature is added.


Of course realizing we've had 3 interim Release Candidates going through testing since the last national release....that's what this poll is about - release 11B (not yet determined to be up for distribution nationally).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course realizing we've had 3 interim Release Candidates going through testing since the last national release....that's what this poll is about - release 11B (not yet determined to be up for distribution nationally).


I think it's tough to get what I'd call real data out of a poll like this. The best I think you can do is say Yes or No regarding whether to release or not. It forces people to choose what their opinion is based on the current RC. At that point, I'd say 80% or greater for a Yes vote would be a good sign. A 50-60% vote of confidence (while still the majority) might be cause for concern, though.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Many different kinds of polls have been attempted. In this one, we've tried to focus potential feedback in terms of individual results (after testing) in comparison to previous RC's or the base 10B firmware. Since this poll closes tomorrow and we have a farily decent size sampling, we will at least had some good information for comparitive purposes, which helps determine the viability of Release Candidate 11B. Others can feel free to attempt alternative formats/content in other polls. In the end, we're just trying to see how we can proceed to resolve base issues so we can then proceed to other things.


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## CraigM (Jan 20, 2007)

I haven't got it yet. Is this week the national roll out for it?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Many different kinds of polls have been attempted. In this one, we've tried to focus potential feedback in terms of individual results (after testing) in comparison to previous RC's or the base 10B firmware. Since this poll closes tomorrow and we have a farily decent size sampling, we will at least had some good information for comparitive purposes, which helps determine the viability of Release Candidate 11B. Others can feel free to attempt alternative formats/content in other polls. In the end, we're just trying to see how we can proceed to resolve base issues so we can then proceed to other things.


No matter how the poll is constructed there will always be critics, whether they are relatively benign (the academics among us), or those not liking the results.

It is virtually impossible to make any post (even about the weather), that someone just has to find fault with.

My main concern is do we learn anything useful from the poll. Some I do (like this one), others I don't....and I don't expect perfection from any of the polls, as I have bigger fish to fry in my life. It's one thing if the poll is obviously agenda driven, or so very poorly constructed as to not be able to get anything meaningful from it, it's quite another for the others...a significant trend is pretty obvious when the "N" gets high enough, even with the flaws.

And for the record, I've had graduate level stat, research methods, etc. For the purposes of the HR20 and this forum, they are hardly a requirement.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hasan said:


> It is virtually impossible to make any post (even about the weather), that someone just has to find fault with.


OK, now why did you have to bring up the weather.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> It is virtually impossible to make any post (even about the weather), that someone just has to find fault with.
> 
> My main concern is do we learn anything useful from the poll. Some I do (like this one), others I don't....and I don't expect perfection from any of the polls, as I have bigger fish to fry in my life.


Thanks for your input. Many of us share those same views.


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## Shemp (Dec 17, 2005)

I have had two problem incidents with 0x11b.

Problem 1. Watching a recorded program. All "trick play" functions stopped functioning. Other GUI functions seemed to work fine. Did a restart (via GUI) to "fix" the problem. After restart, the program that caused the problem worked fine.

Problem 2. Watching a "buffered live" program the HR20 stopped responding to the remote control. I use a universal remote. I tried the HR20 remote to see if it would work and it didn't. A RBR got things working again. I don't recall doing anything unusual that may have caused this. I was simply going to slip through the commercials and the HR20 didn't respond to the remote.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

So the poll will close -- I just have one more point to make. At this point I would still vote Fantastic. I have one time seen one problem -- a morning BSB that was cleared by an RBR. Why do I still say Fantastic? Because (other than the failure to save my Guide data), that is equivalent to a typical reboot on my PC. At times, a reboot is warrented -- big deal. Compared to the earlier problems I've had and that I've seen reported, 119 is Fantastic and should definitely be released as soon as possible.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

richlife said:


> So the poll will close -- I just have one more point to make. At this point I would still vote Fantastic. I have one time seen one problem -- a morning BSB that was cleared by an RBR. Why do I still say Fantastic? Because (other than the failure to save my Guide data), that is equivalent to a typical reboot on my PC. At times, a reboot is warrented -- big deal. Compared to the earlier problems I've had and that I've seen reported, 119 is Fantastic and should definitely be released as soon as possible.


Big deal? I'd say it's a big deal. What if you went on vacation right before the BSB happened and it didn't record a thing? Would you still be saying that's it's no big deal?


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

mtnagel said:


> Big deal? I'd say it's a big deal. What if you went on vacation right before the BSB happened and it didn't record a thing? Would you still be saying that's it's no big deal?


Yep! I would. It takes more than some lost TV shows to constitute a "big deal" for me. That's what they make repeats (or the internet) for. Of course, for some it is a big deal. I have no problem with it being a big deal for them if they have no problem with it not being for me.


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## alv (Aug 13, 2002)

I'd like to see this poll reset after a few days. I don't think it would be so skewed to the working great items.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

SuperTech1 said:


> Yep! I would. It takes more than some lost TV shows to constitute a "big deal" for me. That's what they make repeats (or the internet) for. Of course, for some it is a big deal. I have no problem with it being a big deal for them if they have no problem with it not being for me.


You do realize the point of a DVR is to actually record things though, right? So if it missed a weeks worth of recordings, whether you care that you missed those particular episodes or not, can you see how that's a big deal?


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

alv said:


> I'd like to see this poll reset after a few days. I don't think it would be so skewed to the working great items.


While it would be interesting, I bet the results would be very similar.

I've seen quite a few polls over the last month on this site that attempt to identify how many people are happy vs. how many are not. *ALL* have come out with similar percentages. Roughly 80% satisfied and 20% are not.

At some point, the people who are having problems with their HR20 will need to realize that just because they and a few very vocal people are having problems does not mean most people are having problems.

That said...
Are some HR20 users having serious problems and are extremely frustrated?: YES
Are "most" HR20 users having serious problems?: NO (if you disagree, show me a poll or other data to prove your point. Rants in forums are not proof)
Should D* take the problems very seriously and correct them?: YES, Absolutely!!
Is the ranting useful?: Certainly. It allows people to express their frustrations and helps ensure D* remembers they still need to do something about the percentage of the HR20s that are having serious problems.

Have a nice day!


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## Dukie (Feb 7, 2006)

Just had my 3rd hang requiring a reboot with 11b (non-responsive remote but this time).

So with 3 crashes since Friday's download, it looks like my "Not so great" vote will be right on the money by the time the next candidate rolls around this weekend.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

At some point I would like to see a "Keep at Most" feature be put back into Recurrent Manual Recordings.

It used to be there, but of course that was back when the manual recordings didn't work.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

SuperTech1 said:


> Yep! I would. It takes more than some lost TV shows to constitute a "big deal" for me. That's what they make repeats (or the internet) for. Of course, for some it is a big deal. I have no problem with it being a big deal for them if they have no problem with it not being for me.


No, not a big deal to life in general. Nothing we discuss here is. But if we just say "no big deal" to all the various bugs and issues with these machines, there is no reason for D* to improve them.

It is a big deal for a DVR to fail to reliably record and playback. These things exist to make our life easier, not to be one more thing to worry about. And some programming (most live sports) isn't available via repeats or internet.

So, in the narrow context of what we discuss on this forum, that would be a big deal for me. But, yeah, I'm OK with it not being one for you.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

I did not forget that i promised a $50 donation DBS if DLB is added!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Earl Bonovich said:


> reach:
> 
> If the trend continues... 0x11b has a very good shot at being the next national release, and the foundation the HR20 needs so that they can move onto adding features...
> 
> Including... possible.. maybe... DLB


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## richadam (Oct 28, 2006)

brott said:


> We here know about the multiple releases, but what percentage of the actual number of HR20 users actually know about the updates? I would think that the easiest measured quantity at this point is the call volume. The call volume must be inversely proportional to the reliability/stability of the HR20 right now.


I must say, I am in violent agreement with this point. Most users are unaware of new updates. I plead guilty of myopia. However, I still think D* should look at an update as a very important decision that requires a significant upgrade to the user experience to validate the decision to green light its transmission.

0x11b still hanging in there...


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> Big deal? I'd say it's a big deal. What if you went on vacation right before the BSB happened and it didn't record a thing? Would you still be saying that's it's no big deal?


In that case, I'd put the HR20 on a timer and reboot every night. This BSB is a minor problem (and definitely an irritant).

It's all a matter of perspective. I live and die Carolina blue, but when one black recording was a Tarheel game I wanted to see, I vented and moved on. TV and basketball are entertainment, not life. My approach is to make the best of a good machine (HR20) and if I find that it's having a specific problem, report it, use whatever workarounds are best and keep testing.


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## richadam (Oct 28, 2006)

brittonx said:


> While it would be interesting, I bet the results would be very similar.
> 
> I've seen quite a few polls over the last month on this site that attempt to identify how many people are happy vs. how many are not. *ALL* have come out with similar percentages. Roughly 80% satisfied and 20% are not.
> 
> ...


I get your point with poll data. However, the thing that makes no sense in all this to me, is the fact that the problems are almost certainly software. D* CSR's freely admit this. This software is the same for all users. Well, except the freakazoids like us who download experimental releases. Many of the problems are so fundamental in nature that it is hard to believe that 80% of users don't try to record programs and therefore avoid the unwatchable bug. So the problems should be similar across the board from a statistical standpoint. This is a paradox that I have not resolved.

You know, I never did that format. I think I will if I get the unwatchable bug again, I will. It could be that the HD has gotten fragmented by early versions of the software and is the control factor that lets many people be happy and others be tortured.

BTW, you are a Major Havoc devotee? I worked in the same lab early in its development alongside the two creators of the game. I always loved how he knocks on the monitor glass impatiently when you are idle for too long.

anciently yours,
rda


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## kfcrosby (Dec 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *NOTE*
> 
> I am going to play MODERATOR role on this thread.
> 
> ...


I do not see anything wrong with this policy. If you're going to complain, then back it up with the details, so that all can benefit. I agree with you 200% on this Earl.

KC


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *NOTE*
> 
> I am going to play MODERATOR role on this thread.
> 
> ...


Earl,

I'll come out of the dark and openly admit I voted "Not so great - more problems than 119, 115, or 10B". I've been an avid supporter of this board and an advocate of the HR-20 since the beginning.

As stated on the issues thread, I didn't have any issues and wasn't able to reproduce any bugs under 10b (with over 7+ days of heavy use). Since the DL of 11b (Saturday Night), I've reported to 2 bugs. None of which were critical (critical = requiring a RBR) but compared against the performance of 10b it was less stable on my particular HR-20.

I will append to my original vote (since no option appears in the poll) the issues/bugs I've had with it have been far less critical than what I saw under previous software updates prior to 10b.


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

mtnagel said:


> You do realize the point of a DVR is to actually record things though, right? So if it missed a weeks worth of recordings, whether you care that you missed those particular episodes or not, can you see how that's a big deal?


I can see that it's a problem that it didn't do what it was supposed to. If my house lost power while I was gone and everything in my refrigerator/freezer was lost, that would be a big deal. If my car only started 2/3 of the time. Yep, a Big deal. If my cell phone died after every third call. Again a Big deal.

DVR losing programming sometimes. NOT a big deal. Again - that's to ME. Feel free to feel differently.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Enough guys. My suggestion would be, if you are not voting, there is no need for comments on the validity of the poll. In short............vote and clarify your reasons.


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

bwaldron said:


> No, not a big deal to life in general. Nothing we discuss here is. But if we just say "no big deal" to all the various bugs and issues with these machines, there is no reason for D* to improve them.
> 
> It is a big deal for a DVR to fail to reliably record and playback. These things exist to make our life easier, not to be one more thing to worry about. And some programming (most live sports) isn't available via repeats or internet.
> 
> So, in the narrow context of what we discuss on this forum, that would be a big deal for me. But, yeah, I'm OK with it not being one for you.


I believe the original posters comment was comparing RBR's to occasionally having to reboot his PC. No big deal. I agree with that. However I believe there are more than enough posters with opposing views (and posted problems) that we don't have to worry about D* feeling their job is done.
As far as the reliability issue, it's definitely a problem rising to a level beyond frustration for many. I'm not trying to minimize those in that unfortunate group. With the 2 year commitment and zero other options for MPEG4 recording I'm sure they feel backed into a corner. At this point I think D* is doing everything they can (opinion) to get it right.
As far as live sports and other non-repeated programming, you're right you may not be able to watch them but you can find out what happened.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Looks like 0x11b has gone national .. this is no longer hypothetical.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brott said:


> Looks like 0x11b has gone national .. this is no longer hypothetical.


And here I go again, 011B missed Monday nights recordings & now I can't go back to 0119. I posted in "issues" but the bottom line was the second program on my local NBC didn't record. The other tuner recorded FOX & CBS while I watched NBC [but the damn unit decided it didn't want to record the second hour of NBC]. Then the news & Leno [which it still didn't record while I was watching it]. RBR & I have control of it again, but after only FOUR DAYS of testing, I can't go back to the other version of software. 
What's this: if it doesn't crash & burn on installation, it's ready for national release?
It seems like they rushed this again into the market without allowing us to test it throughly.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

brittonx said:


> While it would be interesting, I bet the results would be very similar. I've seen quite a few polls over the last month on this site that attempt to identify how many people are happy vs. how many are not. *ALL* have come out with similar percentages. Roughly 80% satisfied and 20% are not.


Yes, this one has been hanging at about 83-84% positive since day one.


Donnie Byrd said:


> Enough guys. My suggestion would be, if you are not voting, there is no need for comments on the validity of the poll. In short............vote and clarify your reasons.


This is what Earl has been enforcing - a good idea.



brott said:


> Looks like 0x11b has gone national .. this is no longer hypothetical.


Correct.


veryoldschool said:


> What's this: if it doesn't crash & burn on installation, it's ready for national release?
> It seems like they rushed this again into the market without allowing us to test it throughly.


Actually D*TV themselves extensively test these internally before they even become Release Candidates. In addition, this RC got pounded externally by us testers harder than almost any previous release.

11B will not correct every "issue". It is, however, strong enough to be an improved and more stable base national firmware release than previous ones.

Consider this a good stepping stone to get everyone where they want to be in a reliable firmware version for *all *users.

Thanks to everyone who spent their many hours testing this version and providing your valuable feedback here. Like the firmware itself, they'll be a continued effort to solidify the polls as well.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Well, now that I've had some time, I would have to vote "A Draw." for the following reasons (please note, If I get home, and 24 is not there, I will revise my opinion to "disaster"):

New issues:

Tried playing music via network, and lost control. Would not stop playing the music, even after I turned off the DVR! I could not get control back until the song ended.

Tried playing SD MP2 recordings (recorded under 11b), and I got nothing until I FF for a minute or so, then I got picture, but I had to then REV back to the beginning. I know this is an old problem, but I had lost it under 10b.

When in FF or Slip, I press 6 sec replay (like TiVo autocorrection), and nothing happens. I have to press Play or wait until the 30 second slip stops, then I can press 6 sec replay.

Channel change is a little faster, but menu/guide paging is SLOWER, and the left side moves faster than the right.

Old Issues: 

HDMI - screen is still shifted to the left.

Pinky lives.


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