# HR44-200 no more bouncy logo - now nature scenes for screensaver



## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

tell me I’m crazy. But freezing my genie goes to nature scenes instead of the logo. Are going to change the logo?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I thought I was going crazy when I saw a screensaver that was a picture and not the moving logo. Before I realized something different was going on, I had hit Exit, and the image was gone. Since then, I have tried to re-create it, but have only seen the usual washed-out gray screen with the moving logo.

Can you re-create the nature scenes and, if so, how?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Spooklight said:


> tell me I'm crazy. But freezing my genie goes to nature scenes instead of the logo. Are going to change the logo?


Our 44 had the logo last night. What firmware update (and date) do you have?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

OK, here is what I got when I paused the playback of a recording:










Weird! Where did that come from? I have had no SW updates for several months, and this just started appearing. On the down side, the screen-saver when playing music is still the awful washed-out gray screen with the Soundscapes box showing the song title, etc.


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## iacas (Nov 18, 2006)

I have gotten a photo of Lake Tahoe the past few times I've gotten the screensaver, despite running the software update (0x1104?) from August 2nd.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

iacas said:


> I have gotten a photo of Lake Tahoe the past few times I've gotten the screensaver, despite running the software update (0x1104?) from August 2nd.


I too am getting the Lake Tahoe screensaver (HR54-200 0x110c September, C61K-700 0x10d1 August).


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## ccccsdad (Oct 26, 2018)

The issue I have is that the Direct Tv logo and time never moves when the scene changes. Why the heck do they do random garbage like this?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

ccccsdad said:


> The issue I have is that the Direct Tv logo and time never moves when the scene changes. Why the heck do they do random garbage like this?


Hope your display is not an OLED....


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

just noticed this today on my HR44-200! I like it. 
I don't think you need a SW update for this to happen.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

jdspencer said:


> just noticed this today on my HR44-200! I like it.
> I don't think you need a SW update for this to happen.


Like it as well ...

Currently on a, "can't discuss it here," type update on my HR54.

First pause of live TV got the Mesa Arch, Utah scene. Then after another pause the Lake Tahoe, CA. one came up which eventually switched back to the Mesa Arch one while on the same second pause.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

ccccsdad said:


> The issue I have is that the Direct Tv logo and time never moves when the scene changes. Why the heck do they do random garbage like this?


With this particular modification, it appears that the newly minted mid-management millennials-in-charge at AT&T, most of whom are "woke," but few of whom appear to have ever experienced, much less heard of, screen burn-in, thought it was a good idea to promote AT&T's idea of "branding," which, if this particular "screen saver" is left on for any length of time will become a more of a literal, rather than a figurative, even on OLED, LED, and LCD screens.

Welcome to the DBSTALK forum, ccccsdad.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Not really an issue with LED displays. I just wish they had done something with the screensaver that pops up when playing one of the music channels. I don’t pause live TV often enough to benefit from nature screens.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

JerryMeeker said:


> Not really an issue with LED displays. I just wish they had done something with the screensaver that pops up when playing one of the music channels. I don't pause live TV often enough to benefit from nature screens.


Leave a bright white static graphic on your LED screen for 6+ hours and tell me again how it's "[N]ot really an issue." Even if you are able to eventually clear the burn-in, it affects all such screens and shortens their lives. Bottom line, the graphic is neither a well-thought-out nor well-executed idea.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Sorry, screen burn-in is not an issue on LED panels. If you think differently, perhaps you could provide proof. However, I whole-heartedly agree that the graphic is not well thought out.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> Sorry, screen burn-in is not an issue on LED panels. If you think differently, perhaps you could provide proof. However, I whole-heartedly agree that the graphic is not well thought out.


How about this from Samsung? You know, a company that manufactures and sells LED screens. 
Are LED TVs Subject To Burn In? | Samsung Support Gulf


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

trh said:


> How about this from Samsung? You know, a company that manufactures and sells LED screens.
> Are LED TVs Subject To Burn In? | Samsung Support Gulf


Fake news.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

JerryMeeker said:


> Sorry, screen burn-in is not an issue on LED panels. If you think differently, perhaps you could provide proof. However, I whole-heartedly agree that the graphic is not well thought out.


Actually, as I am somewhat old-school, "persistence" may be the better term, rather than "burn-in." In any event, it is, to me, both experiencially and common-sensically, somewhat obvious that a statically displayed, long-term image, such as a DIRECTV/AT&T logo/Death Star will remain persistent for a very long time, perhaps forever, if displayed on any screen for an indefinite period of time.

As to LEDs in particular:

"Proof" Example 1: https://lifehacker.com/5982108/is-burn-in-still-an-issue-on-tvs-and-monitors/
"Proof" Example 2: Are LED TVs Subject To Burn In? | Samsung Support Gulf

There are many other such examples.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

JerryMeeker said:


> Sorry, screen burn-in is not an issue on LED panels. If you think differently, perhaps you could provide proof. However, I whole-heartedly agree that the graphic is not well thought out.


You do realize there's no such thing as an "LED panel", right? It is the exact same technology as LCD TVs, it simply uses a different type of backlight. The burn in has nothing to do with the backlight, so claims that so-called "LED TVs" are somehow immune to burn in / image retention that affects LCD TVs is ridiculous.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> Fake news.


And here are similar articles from LG and Sony
LG Help Library: Image Stays on the Screen | LG Canada
Notes on using OLED TVs (about image retention) | Sony SG


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> First pause of live TV got the Mesa Arch, Utah scene.


Could you reveal a duration of the pause ?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Could you reveal a duration of the pause ?


Not sure why this is important. Any pause during content playback will result in the screensaver being invoked, but I have never felt it necessary to use a stopwatch to time it. I suspect it is ~5 minutes? And I am unaware of any setting that would allow a user to adjust the timeout value.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> You do realize there's no such thing as an "LED panel", right? It is the exact same technology as LCD TVs, it simply uses a different type of backlight. The burn in has nothing to do with the backlight, so claims that so-called "LED TVs" are somehow immune to burn in / image retention that affects LCD TVs is ridiculous.


Thank you so much for correcting me. Perhaps it would have been more correct to say LED/LCD. Regardless, we should agree that the risk of image retention is much lower on LED/LCD screens than it is on OLED screens. I have left my TV playing cable news for hours at a time, and never had the slightest hint of image retention. And as for the danger of image retention from the new DTV screensaver images, who really pauses live TV playback for multiple hours?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> Thank you so much for correcting me. Perhaps it would have been more correct to say LED/LCD. Regardless, we should agree that the risk of image retention is much lower on LED/LCD screens than it is on OLED screens. I have left my TV playing cable news for hours at a time, and never had the slightest hint of image retention. And as for the danger of image retention from the new DTV screensaver images, *who really pauses live TV playback for multiple hours?*


My wife. And, yes, it drives me nuts.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Is that "screensaver" only when you pause? I thought Directv equipment went into a screensaver after four (?) hours of not touching the remote. Is that still the old one?

If they have a library of a dozen images of varying color/intensity and shift between them every few minutes it'll be fine, but seems unnecessary and wasteful. Both OLED and local-dimming LED displays use less power to show black areas of the screen so all the nature images do is burn power. Not a lot but multiplied by millions of customers it can add up. They should just have the death star logo and bounce it around the mostly black screen.

Not sure what the point of these nature images is, unless they are a 'test' and what they really want to do is sell ad space in the 'screensaver'. Wonder how people would react to an ad from their local pizza joint when they pause Directv?


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

iacas said:


> I have gotten a photo of Lake Tahoe the past few times I've gotten the screensaver, despite running the software update (0x1104?) from August 2nd.


I'm on 1104 too, no scenic screensavers but I don't have internet connected to HR-54, perhaps it has nothing to do with software update and like the Apple TV screensavers relies on an internet connection.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

slice1900 said:


> Not sure what the point of these nature images is, unless they are a 'test' and what they really want to do is sell ad space in the 'screensaver'.


I recall dish did try put ads to Hopper screensaver;
adding to that - the ads coming also in standby mode !


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Got the same thing on my HR-24 yesterday.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JerryMeeker said:


> And as for the danger of image retention from the new DTV screensaver images, who really pauses live TV playback for multiple hours?


I do. When I am multi-tasking I will pause TV if I need to concentrate more on the other things I am doing. Sometimes I don't get back to the program for a while. If I pause live TV the receiver will restart when the buffer is full.. If I pause a recorded program the image will sit there for hours.



P Smith said:


> I recall dish did try put ads to Hopper screensaver;
> adding to that - the ads coming also in standby mode !


The current ads on the DISH screensaver are for DISH products and receiver features. Sometimes a PPV will be advertised. I suspect the ads don't have a lot of viewers since they only appear in standby - the screensaver does not play when content is paused, only when the receiver goes in to standby.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

makaiguy said:


> Got the same thing on my HR-24 yesterday.


HR24-100 - Paused program just now. At the 5 minute mark the bouncing globe came on.
I am not connected to the internet. Software is Jan 2018 version.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

DTV could run Java scripts on STB, so I wouldn't wonder if new FW did that


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Is that "screensaver" only when you pause? I thought Directv equipment went into a screensaver after four (?) hours of not touching the remote. Is that still the old one?


What you're referring to is the Power Saving setting, which hibernates the DVR after four hours of inactivity. The screensaver kicks in at around 5 minutes of being paused and cannot be disabled.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

The new screensaver did not require a software update. 3 years ago in July when AT&T took over, the startup screens changed right away from the Cyclone logo to the Deathstar without a SW update.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Is that "screensaver" only when you pause? *I thought Directv equipment went into a screensaver after "four" (?) hours of not touching the remote.* Is that still the old one?
> 
> If they have a library of a dozen images of varying color/intensity and shift between them every few minutes it'll be fine, but seems unnecessary and wasteful. Both OLED and local-dimming LED displays use less power to show black areas of the screen so all the nature images do is burn power. Not a lot but multiplied by millions of customers it can add up. They should just have the death star logo and bounce it around the mostly black screen.
> 
> Not sure what the point of these nature images is, unless they are a 'test' and what they really want to do is sell ad space in the 'screensaver'. Wonder how people would react to an ad from their local pizza joint when they pause Directv?


Why would you think that? What would be the point of such a screen saver?

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Why would you think that? What would be the point of such a screen saver?
> 
> Rich


I think the logic was that if you did not touch the remote in 4 hours then no one was watching. I had my setup do that once when I was watching a long NASCAR race live and once when the market was taking a dive like it is now and I was watching it live all day.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

The screensaver kicks in after about 5 minutes of pause of live tv.
The no activity after 4 hours feature will shut off the stb and is selectable. 
Having a "screensaver" with static images is about the stupidest thing they could come up with.


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## Richard (Apr 24, 2002)

The power saving "feature" does have a toggle, but it doesn't actually work. Nothing like turning on your TV only to have the stupid bouncing logo and no active buffer, even though you have the power saving feature disabled. This happens on both of my receives (HR24 and HR44). It sucks that there are no longer any reliable receivers for DirecTV, only their in-house crap.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Richard said:


> The power saving "feature" does have a toggle, but it doesn't actually work. Nothing like turning on your TV only to have the stupid bouncing logo and no active buffer, even though you have the power saving feature disabled. This happens on both of my receives (HR24 and HR44). It sucks that there are no longer any reliable receivers for DirecTV, only their in-house crap.


What do you mean, "doesn't work"? You mean you can't enable power savings, or you can't turn it off?


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## bobcnn (Nov 10, 2007)

Strange, the new nature shots showed up yesterday, and most of today, but now, it is back to the bouncing Directv logo.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Roku has a screensaver selectable mode with National Park pictures. The pictures change about every 30 seconds. They look great on a 4K screen.


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## kpk001 (Aug 5, 2017)

bobcnn said:


> Strange, the new nature shots showed up yesterday, and most of today, but now, it is back to the bouncing Directv logo.


Same here [on a 54 if it makes a difference]. Now maybe they can get back to fixing the disappearing list entries.


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

No further information found about this issue. Must be them working on issues. Still frame for screensaver is no good. Software 0X1144 WED 10/24,416AM


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## Bell System (Sep 7, 2007)

fwiw that sure likes one of the standby/screensaver views on the U-verse platform. There are several that cycle through that's one of them...
edit to add pics


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

Yes, I’m sure they are working on it


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Richard said:


> only their in-house crap


nope, a few companies making the receivers for DTV, see "-NNN" decoding posted here


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> nope, a few companies making the receivers for DTV, see "-NNN" decoding posted here


The software design of the receivers does not vary by physical manufacturer. That blame rests solely on AT&T|DIRECTV.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> The software design of the receivers does not vary by physical manufacturer. That blame rests solely on AT&T|DIRECTV.


only if diff mfgs using SAME schematics and BOM - I've seen differences of same model between mfgs


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The complaint was about the UI ... but if you think slight differences in hardware manufacturing affect the UI and want to blame DIRECTV's UI design decisions on what factory cranked out the hardware you have the right to be wrong. After all, this is the Internet ...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

as usual


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I still have the bouncing logo.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

reubenray said:


> I still have the bouncing logo.


The bouncing logo has returned on my DIRECTV system as well. Testing cycle may be over. If AT&T/DIRECTV chooses to implement this format to replace the bouncing logo my take is those scenic images will be replaced with advertising.


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

bouncing logo screensavers restored


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## Richard (Apr 24, 2002)

P Smith said:


> nope, a few companies making the receivers for DTV, see "-NNN" decoding posted here


Correct, but they are all made for DirecTV. I was referring to the older receivers that were made by Sony, RCA, Samsung, Phillips, etc. That you could go to Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. and buy off the shelf.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I WANT MORE said:


> The screensaver kicks in after about 5 minutes of pause of live tv.
> The no activity after 4 hours feature will shut off the stb and is selectable.
> Having a "screensaver" with static images is about the stupidest thing they could come up with.


The Fire TV devices all have static images on their screensavers but the image changes quickly. I have had no issues with them. I don't have the new screensaver but my 44 goes to screensaver 5 minutes after a pause. If the static images change quickly why would that cause more harm than the 5 minute pause?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> What do you mean, "doesn't work"? You mean you can't enable power savings, or you can't turn it off?


I don't understand either. A clarification would be helpful. I don't think I have an issue on my 24s with buffers. They're always on, I think.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

trh said:


> Roku has a screensaver selectable mode with National Park pictures. The pictures change about every 30 seconds. They look great on a 4K screen.


Similar to Amazon's screensavers. Naturally, the ATVs have what I think are the best screensavers I've ever seen.

Rich


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Rich said:


> The Fire TV devices all have static images on their screensavers but the image changes quickly. I have had no issues with them. I don't have the new screensaver but my 44 goes to screensaver 5 minutes after a pause. If the static images change quickly why would that cause more harm than the 5 minute pause?
> 
> Rich


While the picture may change, the AT&T logo, "Press OK to watch TV" and time are stationary. Those have the potential to burn-in. See pictures posted by Bell System above.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I noticed the new screen savers a few days ago on my HR54/C61k setup. Very nice compared to the bouncy D* logo.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I can no longer invoke the nature screensavers. Seems like a hit or miss thing.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

trh said:


> While the picture may change, the AT&T logo, "Press OK to watch TV" and time are stationary. Those have the potential to burn-in. See pictures posted by Bell System above.


BINGO.


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## Getteau (Dec 20, 2007)

To answer the question of who leaves a TV on for long periods of time with the screen saver, it happens almost every night on two of my HR-24's. There is still the very old bug on the 24's that kicks on the screensaver when the channel doesn't change and a recording happens on the background tuner. My wife and son both let their TV's run overnight while they sleep and if anything records on either of those DVR's, it will kick on the screensaver.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Getteau said:


> My wife and son both let their TV's run overnight while they sleep


What does waste of electricity !


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## NOLAmitch (Oct 16, 2007)

We have an HR44/700 on software 0x1104. I had the nature scenes screen savers for about a week, and then they disappeared again yesterday. Nothing has changed that I can tell. Was also seeing nature scenes in C61-100 clients running 0x10d1.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I have never seen and LED monitor burn in and we have lots of them at work on static screens for most of the day for years.

As for this screensaver it would have been nice if Directv had put an option in the menu to use the new one or the old bouncing one. For people like myself with OLED or someone using a Plasma TV this change is not a good thing.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There are a lot of different ways to make a display, some monitors will be more susceptible than others. Just like some plasmas are more susceptible than others. I have a couple dozen of them which are on about 100 hours a week, generally on sports channels that have the tickers etc. There is one particular model of 42" Panasonic I have four where two of them are starting to show some bad burn in (but are in lesser used areas so I'm just ignoring it for now) but most of them are fine. The newest/largest ones bought in 2009 & 2010 have no evidence of burn in at all.


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## charbear (Apr 29, 2006)

It is pretty cool looking but I understand the burning concerns for some. Any idea how to make a display the correct temperature? Mine currently is off by a good 10°.


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## gary900 (Feb 16, 2009)

I have a 1 year old 65" LG OLED that was not cheap, and I am very concerned that the DTV logo on the picture screen saver which does not change with a new picture might cause some screen retention (e.g. Burn In). Is there any way to revert the screen saver back to the old boring one which at least would not damage my TV?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

First, as for burn in, I have indeed seen several LCD laptop displays get burn in. It would happen on the taskbar area where the clock is displayed. Moving the bar to the top never got rid of it (hence it was permanent and not just persistent).

Next, I did not see this new screensaver until it just started appearing today (Jan 15) on my HR54-700. I do not like it for a couple of reasons. 1st, unless they move the weather and logo around, it totally defeats the purpose of a screensaver. 2nd, I never liked the new GUI's screensaver bouncing ball because the black background was never true black like the old GUI. This made it annoyingly bright when I might just pause something to take a nap. Now with these changing bright images, forget that.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I see talk of Internet connected and no internet connected and I am wondering if you have no Internet you get the default bouncing ball Logo but if the Net is connected it downloads a few pictures. Makes sense to me as DTV might decide in the future to use those pictures to promote upcoming shows.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Getteau said:


> To answer the question of who leaves a TV on for long periods of time with the screen saver, it happens almost every night on two of my HR-24's. There is still the very old bug on the 24's that kicks on the screensaver when the channel doesn't change and a recording happens on the background tuner. My wife and son both let their TV's run overnight while they sleep and if anything records on either of those DVR's, it will kick on the screensaver.


Wow thanks, that explains why that happens. I thought my HR24 had some sort of defect.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Oh, and as for who leaves the screensaver on for hours, I do all the time. As I said sometimes I pause a show to take a nap (medical issue), but more often I pause stuff so while I need to concentrate on something else I am doing. That can often take a few hours.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

poppo said:


> Oh, and as for who leaves the screensaver on for hours, I do all the time. As I said sometimes I pause a show to take a nap (medical issue), but more often I pause stuff so while I need to concentrate on something else I am doing. That can often take a few hours.


I pause live tv for long stretches all the time and I don't want to see these annoying photos, someone else wote about internet connected receivers, I'm not connected (HR54), so far I've never seen these landscape photos, I think they depend on an internet connection, hoping it stays that way.

I don't know why Directv can't offer a menu choice to turn off these photos.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I find it strange that the screen saver that comes on when tuned to a music channel is still the gray screen, but with the bouncing box that has the track/artist/album information. I would like it if there were configurable options for the screensaver, specifically the time-out after which it appears (currently 5 minutes), and whether to display the gray screen with bouncing logo or the nature scenes. And I long for the black screen, rather than the gray screen.


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

New screensaver

Software update yesterday. New progress bar and screensaver. As for burn in, the photo changes every few minutes, but I’m not sure that will prevent it. Also, the current time is correct for my time zone, but I have no idea where the temperature pulls from. Current temp here in Denver is 36, but 52 is displayed. What a joke. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

GordonGekko said:


> I pause live tv for long stretches all the time and I don't want to see these annoying photos, someone else wote about internet connected receivers, I'm not connected (HR54), so far I've never seen these landscape photos, I think they depend on an internet connection, hoping it stays that way.
> 
> I don't know why Directv can't offer a menu choice to turn off these photos.


We have asked for many years for an option to turn off the screen saver and were basically told we were too stupid to not mistakenly turn it off and cause burn in. But yet they give us static images defeating the purpose.

As for the Internet, I just disconnected mine and presto no more slide show images. I assume it is getting the weather info via the Internet and without Internet, it goes back to the bouncing ball. I never stream anything due to BW limits, so I will just leave it disconnected.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

poppo said:


> Oh, and as for who leaves the screensaver on for hours, I do all the time. As I said sometimes I pause a show to take a nap (medical issue), but more often I pause stuff so while I need to concentrate on something else I am doing. That can often take a few hours.


If you have a DVR, an easy solution would be to press the Record button and then turn the system off.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> If you have a DVR, an easy solution would be to press the Record button and then turn the system off.


I'm often pausing a recording. And I don't want to be turning things on and off constantly. And if I were to hit record on a live show, then I have to go back and search for the place I left off. But the main point is we should not be forced to do things we should not have to do, just because someone did not think things through, or thought their way was the only way.

Just like removing the ability for the sort order to "stick". There was absolutely no reason to have removed that option, and it causes everyone here to have do an extra step every time they go into the playlist. Everyone here wants it sorted alphabetically. But no, someone at AT&T once again decided that they knew better than their customers.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

poppo said:


> I'm often pausing a recording. And I don't want to be turning things on and off constantly. And if I were to hit record on a live show, then I have to go back and search for the place I left off. But the main point is we should not be forced to do things we should not have to do, just because someone did not think things through, or thought their way was the only way.
> 
> Just like removing the ability for the sort order to "stick". There was absolutely no reason to have removed that option, and it causes everyone here to have do an extra step every time they go into the playlist. Everyone here wants it sorted alphabetically. But no, someone at AT&T once again decided that they knew better than their customers.


Not to take their side but there are more views on how things should be than there are options available. Some love the pictures, some don't. 
Look at how many flaws were in Windows 10 and they now update it every month and there are still things that should be changed in my opinion but doubt they ever will be.

Turning things on and off like a TV and the DVR are not a problem as they used to be. When you turn them off, you just stop seeing the picture, the receivers and the TVs are still on with power.

Burning in a new LED TV is almost non existent nowadays.

When I press the Record button on a live show, I then press the Play button and see where the marker is. That makes it easy to back to that spot.
You can also press the Pause button before you turn it off . When you turn it on you go in the List and select it and you should be given the choice to Resume from where you left off.


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## pbeaudet (Jan 8, 2010)

Where does the new screensaver get the temperature? It certainly is not the temperature where I live. It thinks it is 27 degrees when it is really 44 degrees outside. If it is centigrade it would be 81 degrees.


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Where does the new screensaver get the temperature? It certainly is not the temperature where I live. It thinks it is 27 degrees when it is really 44 degrees outside. If it is centigrade it would be 81 degrees.


Same here. Temperature is way off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

My temperature is spot on (58 degrees), so there you have your answer—it is the temperature in Austin, Texas.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Where does the new screensaver get the temperature? It certainly is not the temperature where I live. It thinks it is 27 degrees when it is really 44 degrees outside. If it is centigrade it would be 81 degrees.


It might be the temperature at the photo location?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Where does the new screensaver get the temperature? It certainly is not the temperature where I live. It thinks it is 27 degrees when it is really 44 degrees outside. If it is centigrade it would be 81 degrees.





kram said:


> Same here. Temperature is way off.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Is th zipcode in your receivers correct?


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

RAD said:


> Is th zipcode in your receivers correct?


My ZIP code is correct. And I doubt that they're the temps for the locations in the photos. I'm sure it's warmer than 52 in the middle of the afternoon in Hawaii.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

What I like is the cloud icon disappears before the next picture is displayed


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## Soccernut (Jan 20, 2004)

Left screen saver on for 30 minutes on my Plasma TV, had very light burn in of logo, cloud, temperature and description of scene on the left side. Turned off TV for 15 minutes and when turned on the burn in was gone.
A longer period of time might cause permanent burn in, would not leave this on OLED TV's.
Time and temperature accurate for my location. 
Nice photos.
DIRECTV must be nuts to think this is a screen saver!!!!


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Spooklight said:


> What I like is the cloud icon disappears before the next picture is displayed


Really? I thought it was a display bug (and an annoying one at that).

As for the temperature, it seemed to be correct here. Maybe you need to set the location in the weather app. Or maybe it is wrong for everyone, but just a coincidence it was right for here.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Strangely, the temperature setting seems to have been removed from the screensavers, at least it is no longer showing for me right now. Just the time and the DTV logo are showing.


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

Used to be a screen saver - now just slides with High Luma chyron and no incorrect temps


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## pbeaudet (Jan 8, 2010)

JerryMeeker said:


> Strangely, the temperature setting seems to have been removed from the screensavers, at least it is no longer showing for me right now. Just the time and the DTV logo are showing.


Temp is removed here as well...


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Not removed here, but now displaying in the wrong place (upper left) and also messing up the pictures.

Edit: a reboot fixed the display, but the weather part is indeed gone. just the time and logo remain. From the other posts I was thinking they had removed it all because of the static image issue, but I guess not.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I suspect we are the live beta testers as they tweak settings.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'd guess that they removed the temperature because it was wrong.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I like the new screen saver. 

But they need to have the time and logo move occasionally to prevent burn in.


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

The photos seem to be changing more quickly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

kram said:


> The photos seem to be changing more quickly.


Obnoxiously waiting what the interval you did measured...


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## JB3 (Oct 2, 2006)

The photos are fine, but as an OLED owner, I'm not happy with the static text. Some settings to control the screen saver would be appreciated.


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## GordonT (Apr 17, 2007)

I didn't see if anyone else had called to find out about this phenomenon, but I called and talked to tech support about the new "screen saver" (I called it a screen destroyer); I asked from whence it came and how someone like me with more than one expensive TV could get rid of it. The initial rep knew virtually nothing other than to bump me to a "supervisor", who basically told me "tough", when he told me that nothing could be done about it. When I persisted and told him that as a nearly 20 year customer, I wasn't about to accept that there was nothing to be done. He then told me that on the Directv web site there is a link to the Directv VP of customer relations (or word to that effect). I asked him for directions and he asked me to go to Directv.com and at the bottom of the page there is a link called "investor relations". I was skeptical but humored him. I clicked on it and got "access denied". He seemed surprised, and said that had never happened to anyone that he had referred to that link. I said "It has now" and asked for an alternative way to submit such a request. He indicated that he didn't know of any. Before blowing my stack, I asked what form of communication this link provided, and he said that the customer provides their email and complaint and that they would be contacted via email or phone call. I then asked him, since could access the link and I couldn't, if he would submit the request on my behalf since he knew my name, email and complaint. He agreed to do so. He indicated that I should receive a response within 24 hours. We'll see; I have his name.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

GordonT said:


> I didn't see if anyone else had called to find out about this phenomenon, but I called and talked to tech support about the new "screen saver" (I called it a screen destroyer); I asked from whence it came and how someone like me with more than one expensive TV could get rid of it. The initial rep knew virtually nothing other than to bump me to a "supervisor", who basically told me "tough", when he told me that nothing could be done about it. When I persisted and told him that as a nearly 20 year customer, I wasn't about to accept that there was nothing to be done. He then told me that on the Directv web site there is a link to the Directv VP of customer relations (or word to that effect). I asked him for directions and he asked me to go to Directv.com and at the bottom of the page there is a link called "investor relations". I was skeptical but humored him. I clicked on it and got "access denied". He seemed surprised, and said that had never happened to anyone that he had referred to that link. I said "It has now" and asked for an alternative way to submit such a request. He indicated that he didn't know of any. Before blowing my stack, I asked what form of communication this link provided, and he said that the customer provides their email and complaint and that they would be contacted via email or phone call. I then asked him, since could access the link and I couldn't, if he would submit the request on my behalf since he knew my name, email and complaint. He agreed to do so. He indicated that I should receive a response within 24 hours. We'll see; I have his name.


That link used to be the best way to get answers and results. Old DIRECTV. Ellen's office.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

The temperature is no longer shown.
And is the Deathstar logo and DirecTV really needed?


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

I’ve got a high-end OLED. When I’m going to be on pause for a while, I turn everything off. This is a very inconvenient workaround and a royal pain in the ass. Seems like AT&T is gradually pulling its support for DVRs in preparation for streaming, and doesn’t care very much about customers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I really don’t understand why anyone would be on pause for a long time. When I want to take a break from a program I am watching, I exit the playback and tune to one of the music channels. I find background music better than dead silence, and I never have to be concerned about the screensavers. Turning equipment off and on is far more stressful than leaving it on all the time. And on my Sony display, there is a “Pic Off” command that turns off the display, rather than powering the entire TV off. Much better, IMO. But I understand my way isn’t the same as what others want.

And the new GUI makes it very easy to resume watching a program that was exited.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

kram said:


> I've got a high-end OLED. When I'm going to be on pause for a while, I turn everything off. This is a very inconvenient workaround and a royal pain in the ass. Seems like AT&T is gradually pulling its support for DVRs in preparation for streaming, and doesn't care very much about customers.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I know this is not a solution but if you disconnect the internet from your receiver it should eliminate the static screensavers and if it is true that the Office of the Directv VP email is no longer active, that is a shame as they bailed me out of a few garbage customer service rep mistakes.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

JerryMeeker said:


> I really don't understand why anyone would be on pause for a long time. When I want to take a break from a program I am watching, I exit the playback and tune to one of the music channels. I find background music better than dead silence, and I never have to be concerned about the screensavers. Turning equipment off and on is far more stressful than leaving it on all the time. And on my Sony display, there is a "Pic Off" command that turns off the display, rather than powering the entire TV off. Much better, IMO. But I understand my way isn't the same as what others want.
> 
> And the new GUI makes it very easy to resume watching a program that was exited.


I can think of many examples why people would be on pause but let's take your line of thinking, you still can't eliminate that one time you pause a program because someone knocked on your door, you forget to do whatever you do to avoid the screensaver, after the allotted five minutes or whatever the timer is, boom, screensaver on, now if you have a tv that is prone to burn in, well, you're done.

Ultimately Directv/AT&T should program a screensaver to do exactly that, save screens and not potentially damage them.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

Or for ppl like me who forgot why they went in to the kitchen, or that let the dog out and 20 minutes later realize it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

GordonGekko said:


> I know this is not a solution but if you disconnect the internet from your receiver it should eliminate the static screensavers and if it is true that the Office of the Directv VP email is no longer active, that is a shame as they bailed me out of a few garbage customer service rep mistakes.


I just went to Investor Relations. It worked...sort of.

This link takes you to the form for Office of the President Office of the President Contact Form
Goes to Jody Garcia, VP of Customer Service.
If anyone uses it, it would be nice to know how they responded.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

GordonGekko said:


> I can think of many examples why people would be on pause but let's take your line of thinking, you still can't eliminate that one time you pause a program because someone knocked on your door, you forget to do whatever you do to avoid the screensaver, after the allotted five minutes or whatever the timer is, boom, screensaver on, now if you have a tv that is prone to burn in, well, you're done.
> 
> Ultimately Directv/AT&T should program a screensaver to do exactly that, save screens and not potentially damage them.


I am sure you are correct. But is the burn-in danger the AT&T logo? I often see network logo bugs in the lower right corner of the screen that persist while watching a program, e.g. the Showtime bug. Doesn't that present the same risk of burn-in? I addressed the potential burn-in issue by choosing an LED/LCD display, rather than an OLED.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

JerryMeeker said:


> I addressed the potential burn-in issue by choosing an LED/LCD display, rather than an OLED.


Likewise.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

kram said:


> I've got a high-end OLED. When I'm going to be on pause for a while, I turn everything off. This is a very inconvenient workaround and a royal pain in the ass. Seems like AT&T is gradually pulling its support for DVRs in preparation for streaming, and doesn't care very much about customers.


If they think this is a good idea on the satellite product, why would they not put the exact same screensaver on the clients they ship with the upcoming IP version of Directv?

The whole idea of a "screensaver" is that it is supposed to avoid static images. If it just shows one picture that never changes, maybe it is a bug and is supposed to cycle through images (presumably/hopefully with the AT&T logo in different corners on different images)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

JerryMeeker said:


> I am sure you are correct. But is the burn-in danger the AT&T logo? I often see network logo bugs in the lower right corner of the screen that persist while watching a program, e.g. the Showtime bug. Doesn't that present the same risk of burn-in? I addressed the potential burn-in issue by choosing an LED/LCD display, rather than an OLED.


Anyone who watches a lot of sports or news has their TV showing a little bar on the bottom for 'ticker' updates, and while the text in the bar changes the background doesn't. If you aren't seeing any problems with that, there's no reason to expect you should see problems with this new "screensaver" unless you leave your TV on with that screensaver before going to Europe for three weeks.

FWIW, I have over two dozen plasmas, over half of them now over a decade old, which are on various sports channels almost all the time, and are on over half of every day seven days a week. There are four 42" 720p Panasonic plasmas that have some evidence of burn in of that bottom ticker bar, none of the rest do. Burn in was a more serious issue with early plasmas, and maybe some cheaper models/brands, but at least based on my experience the worry is overblown. I certainly don't think about it when I pause my Tivo at home, connected to a Panasonic plasma. Sometimes I get distracted and leave it paused like that at whatever point I happened to pause it for hours, never been a problem.

I don't have any OLEDs, so I can't speak to burn in on those, but I'd guess they are similar to plasma in that the early ones may have issues but they will have them figured out as the technology matures. The same thing happened with OLEDs in phones, those first few years of Samsung phones with OLEDs had some pretty noticeable burn in, but it seems they eventually licked it (that's probably one of the reasons why Apple waited before jumping on the OLED display bandwagon, they know their phones have a longer active life than the rest and don't want a deficiency like that staring in the user in the face every time they pick up their phone)

BTW, LCD/LED displays aren't immune to burn in. I had a high end LCD monitor (21" Dell purchased in 1999) on my computer that had the bottom bar burned in. It wasn't really bad, but it was easily noticeable when watching a video full screen. The newer one doesn't have that problem.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> Anyone who watches a lot of sports or news has their TV showing a little bar on the bottom for 'ticker' updates, and while the text in the bar changes the background doesn't. If you aren't seeing any problems with that, there's no reason to expect you should see problems with this new "screensaver" unless you leave your TV on with that screensaver before going to Europe for three weeks.
> 
> FWIW, I have over two dozen plasmas, over half of them now over a decade old, which are on various sports channels almost all the time, and are on over half of every day seven days a week. There are four 42" 720p Panasonic plasmas that have some evidence of burn in of that bottom ticker bar, none of the rest do. Burn in was a more serious issue with early plasmas, and maybe some cheaper models/brands, but at least based on my experience the worry is overblown. I certainly don't think about it when I pause my Tivo at home, connected to a Panasonic plasma. Sometimes I get distracted and leave it paused like that at whatever point I happened to pause it for hours, never been a problem.
> 
> ...


Most newer TVs have a setting that will turn off the TV if no remote buttons are pressed in x amount of time, just like the receivers have the Power Save that everybody, including me, turn off.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

jimmie57 said:


> Most newer TVs have a setting that will turn off the TV if no remote buttons are pressed in x amount of time, just like the receivers have the Power Save that everybody, including me, turn off.


That seems like a useless setting if you have cable/satellite. The only remote commands the TV will ever see are "on" and "off", unless you fiddle with the volume a lot.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> That seems like a useless setting if you have cable/satellite. The only remote commands the TV will ever see are "on" and "off", unless you fiddle with the volume a lot.


I do. Some things have a much different volume.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

jimmie57 said:


> I do. Some things have a much different volume.


I guess just ignore the differences. The only time I change volume is if I'm making dinner during the evening news, I'll turn it way up so I can hear it from the kitchen over the noise of whatever I'm doing. I'm pretty sure there have been more than a few times where I've watched college football for 12 hours straight without ANY remote command going to the TV.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> If it just shows one picture that never changes, maybe it is a bug and is supposed to cycle through images ...


It cycles through a number of scenic images of national parks, etc.


> ... (presumably/hopefully with the AT&T logo in different corners on different images)


And that's the problem. The superimposed text and graphics (time, deathstar logo and the name of the place the picture represents) are located in the same spot on each picture. Even if the text and time change, the logo and thin line above it do not, and some pixels in the text are sure to be repeated as well. AT&T shoddiness shines through again.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> I guess just ignore the differences. The only time I change volume is if I'm making dinner during the evening news, I'll turn it way up so I can hear it from the kitchen over the noise of whatever I'm doing. I'm pretty sure there have been more than a few times where I've watched college football for 12 hours straight without ANY remote command going to the TV.


I have my TV speakers on 5 when I first turn it on. 2 hours later when my son gets up I turn it up to 15. When he gets settled into his TV room and turns his system on I have to crank it up to at least 18 and sometime 25 to hear mine over his. His TV is down a hall and off to the right and about 40 feet away from mine.

Others have mentioned this in other posts but there seems to be quite a difference in some recording, especially for example from CBS to FX. I watched a movie called Sicario: Day of the Soldado yesterday that I had recorded on STRZHD. I had the sound all the way up to35 on that and it was not loud.

Also, I wear the buttons out on the Remote.
I flip between programs. Now I am flipping between LPGA and Tennis.


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## fjames (Nov 25, 2010)

Your display input should be just a click away, so people concerned could just change inputs. Think of it as a manual screen saver.


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

For those with an LG OLED set:

You might try launching the photo/video app. The TV's own screensaver should activate within a couple of minutes of inactivity.

Switching between inputs and the app is fairly easy.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

slice1900 said:


> The whole idea of a "screensaver" is that it is supposed to avoid static images.


Nay, the idea behind curtains is make new ad space and _sell_ it to anyone one who want it !


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## Soccernut (Jan 20, 2004)

slice1900 said:


> Anyone who watches a lot of sports or news has their TV showing a little bar on the bottom for 'ticker' updates, and while the text in the bar changes the background doesn't. If you aren't seeing any problems with that, there's no reason to expect you should see problems with this new "screensaver" unless you leave your TV on with that screensaver before going to Europe for three weeks.
> 
> FWIW, I have over two dozen plasmas, over half of them now over a decade old, which are on various sports channels almost all the time, and are on over half of every day seven days a week. There are four 42" 720p Panasonic plasmas that have some evidence of burn in of that bottom ticker bar, none of the rest do. Burn in was a more serious issue with early plasmas, and maybe some cheaper models/brands, but at least based on my experience the worry is overblown. I certainly don't think about it when I pause my Tivo at home, connected to a Panasonic plasma. Sometimes I get distracted and leave it paused like that at whatever point I happened to pause it for hours, never been a problem.
> 
> ...


I have a Panasonic TC-P65VT30 2011 model not a cheap TV, amazing HD picture, I left it on the screen saver for 30 minutes and had temporary burn in, I'm not taking any chances with longer exposure.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Soccernut said:


> I left it on the screen saver for 30 minutes


is that your post imply just one SS picture stay there?!

posters reported seen changing the pictures on certain (what is it exactly ?) interval...


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

Got up at 2:00 AM for my nightly leak.
As usual my wife was in the TV room "watching" tv.
The D* "screen saver" page was up.
I moved my LG b6 out of this room and replaced it with a Sony Z9d specifically for this reason. 
It is bad enough to deal with the CNN and MSNBC logos, we don't need D* piling on. 
This needs to change ASAP!!!


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

P Smith said:


> is that your post imply just one SS picture stay there?!
> 
> posters reported seen changing the pictures on certain (what is it exactly ?) interval...


The images do change. But the logo and time don't move. Those should move to different locations with each new image.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

fjames said:


> Your display input should be just a click away, so people concerned could just change inputs. Think of it as a manual screen saver.


Many if not all TVs will turn off if there is nothing active on the selected input. Since I have nothing connected to the other inputs, I would have to turn the TV back on and switch the input back again. NOT a solution.

As for those who say we don't need a screen saver with modern TVs, then why not just give us the option to turn the dang thing off?

Like others, I believe it is the first step to plastering ads up there. Look - here is a nice picture of Hawaii. Next slide is an Expida ad.


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## Soccernut (Jan 20, 2004)

Poppo, I think you're right, future advertising is the idea.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Just noticed the static logo is now gone from the slide show.


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## notdeadyet (May 29, 2011)

gone here too...was there last night. And no firmware update, so as stated here earlier, this must only happen if connected to the internet.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I am connected to the internet, and the logo is gone for me as well. I think we are observing some fine-tuning in real time.


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## Soccernut (Jan 20, 2004)

JerryMeeker said:


> I am connected to the internet, and the logo is gone for me as well. I think we are observing some fine-tuning in real time.


I hope your right, they need to eliminate all graphics or move them around every so often.


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## kram (Sep 3, 2006)

Yep, gone here too. They really need to retool this silliness. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Lije Baley (Dec 7, 2003)

I noticed the same. Static graphic gone from lower right corner. However, the location of the photo (Grand Canyon, Big Sur, etc.) is always in the lower left. As the words change with each slide is that enough protection from burn-in for us OLED owners? I think so, but I'm no expert.

I doubt Direct was headed toward using the screensaver for advertising. That would anger way too many people, even those with sets not prone to burn-in. But imagine the Progressive Insurance logo permanently etched into your screen...

I'd taken to using "double-play" when intentionally trying to build a buffer that would allow commercial skipping. Amazingly, I found my wife doing the same. Directv certainly made using their product more difficult.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Lije Baley said:


> I doubt Direct was headed toward using the screensaver for advertising.


No doubt they will that in a blink of eye - it's win-win case: ATT will get a lot of money from advertisers and TV's mfgs - for making new panels and whole TVs


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I just noticed this lol 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Lije Baley said:


> I noticed the same. Static graphic gone from lower right corner. However, the location of the photo (Grand Canyon, Big Sur, etc.) is always in the lower left. As the words change with each slide is that enough protection from burn-in for us OLED owners? I think so, but I'm no expert.
> 
> I doubt Direct was headed toward using the screensaver for advertising. That would anger way too many people, even those with sets not prone to burn-in. But imagine the Progressive Insurance logo permanently etched into your screen...
> 
> I'd taken to using "double-play" when intentionally trying to build a buffer that would allow commercial skipping. Amazingly, I found my wife doing the same. Directv certainly made using their product more difficult.


I wouldn't be surprised if it became advertising and frankly wouldn't even care. But the pictures are so much nicer.

I forgot who but one company is starting to try static ads when you hit the pause button on something.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it became advertising and frankly wouldn't even care. But the pictures are so much nicer.
> 
> I forgot who but one company is starting to try static ads when you hit the pause button on something.


Have you seen a TV with dish H in *standby* mode ? eg the DVR is OFF, but does show ads !


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Kind of reminds me of my chromecast lol 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Lije Baley said:


> I doubt Direct was headed toward using the screensaver for advertising. That would anger way too many people, even those with sets not prone to burn-in. But imagine the Progressive Insurance logo permanently etched into your screen...


Well, the ads are here. Just had a bunch pop up for on demand and other shows. Ugh!!


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

poppo said:


> Well, the ads are here. Just had a bunch pop up for on demand and other shows. Ugh!!


Can you post a screenshot so we can see what you are talking about?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Lije should eat his hat now


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

poppo said:


> Well, the ads are here. Just had a bunch pop up for on demand and other shows. Ugh!!


To be expected. DIRECTV cluttered the GUIDE banners with ads so why not the screen saver. At least it's in house advertising but I wouldn't put it past AT&T to insert commercial advertising in the future.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> To be expected. DIRECTV cluttered the GUIDE banners with ads so why not the screen saver. At least it's in house advertising but I wouldn't put it past AT&T to insert commercial advertising in the future.


Based on my observation that it uses the internet to fetch the screen saver images, and it appears that it fetches them every time a new image is displayed even if it is the same one it has already displayed, I fully expect to see targeted ads next. Different ads for different people. Why else would they not just send them via sat and cache them if everyone would get the same ones? I'm not happy that they are leeching my data (I have limited BW) without my express permission.


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## Lije Baley (Dec 7, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Lije should eat his hat now











Not bad with salsa...

It seems Direct/ATT is trying to assist home theater enthusiasts with display ads similar to those we're often forced to watch at the local Bijou. Now you can spin up ten minutes of adverts for on demand programming before each movie.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

:thumbsup:

well, Murphy law … you don't like a volume of the ads, but they will increase it regardless your feeling


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Lije Baley said:


> It seems Direct/ATT is trying to assist home theater enthusiasts with display ads similar to those we're often forced to watch at the local Bijou. Now you can spin up ten minutes of adverts for on demand programming before each movie.


This is becoming more common. While streaming the show "Catastrophy" from Amazon Prime, each episode had a short preview of a different Prime offering. Very annoying.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

JerryMeeker said:


> This is becoming more common. While streaming the show "Catastrophy" from Amazon Prime, each episode had a short preview of a different Prime offering. Very annoying.


If this article is true, AT&T announced by the end of 2019, they will employ full motion video ads every time you pause the dvr, has ATT really stated this, perhaps during an earnings call?

*Hulu and AT&T to start showing ads every time you pause a show | Daily Mail Online*

Update: Found the quote here:

TV's Next Commercial Break Might Be the Pause in Your Binge (EXCLUSIVE)

AT&T also has hopes to use the pause to lend new momentum to TV advertising. The company, which owns DirecTV and U-verse, expects to launch technology next year that puts a full-motion video on a screen when a user decides to take a respite. "We know you're going to capture 100% viewability when they pause and unpause," says Matt Van Houten, vice president of product at Xandr Media, AT&T's advertising division. "There's a lot of value in that experience."

That might actually cause me to leave Directv immediately.

Question to the people here who work or who have more tech knowledge, do you think this would only be employed in internet connected receivers, does the technology exist to drop these ads over the satellite to non connected receivers?

I would hate static image ads but I could deal with them, full motion videos with audio would be a bridge too far but with no internet, can Directv even detect dvr pauses?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> Question to the people here who work or who have more tech knowledge, do you think this would only be employed in internet connected receivers, does the technology exist to drop these ads over the satellite to non connected receivers?


DIRECTV is currently inserting locally stored ads on DVRs (covering network fed advertising). The technology is there to play these targeted ads at any time. No Internet required. The DVR would know when the customer paused the program (otherwise the program would not pause).

And people thought the big black bar during pauses was bad.

I would not expect the screen saver to kick in immediately with a pause, but I have seen that behavior on some news web site videos. If one pauses the video the playback does not remain full screen (or full window on the web page) as links to other stories are placed on the screen. It has been annoying when there was a statistical graphic on the screen that I paused the video to view.

I expect a screen saver to kick in minutes if not hours later when there has been no control of the receiver.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> DIRECTV is currently inserting locally stored ads on DVRs (covering network fed advertising). The technology is there to play these targeted ads at any time. No Internet required. The DVR would know when the customer paused the program (otherwise the program would not pause).
> 
> And people thought the big black bar during pauses was bad.
> 
> ...


Well this is interesting but are you certain they can add commercial videos to dvr pauses with the current Genie receivers, yes the receiver knows you paused but how is Directv going to coordinate an ad with that button press, with no internet I'm not certain it is possible and the current dropped network ads have nothing to do with dvr, every Directv user sees them, no receiver action triggers them.

I am referring to those ads that jump in over a national feed ad or preempts a national feed ad, perhaps you are referring to something else, "locally stored dvr ads", I don't have an internet connection on HR54 and I've never seen a locally stored dvr ad.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Since I don't have what is in the discussion, I might be all wrong, but.
I don't know that I would care what is on my screen when I press the pause button since I am no longer paying attention to the screen.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> I am referring to those ads that jump in over a national feed ad or preempts a national feed ad, perhaps you are referring to something else, "locally stored dvr ads", I don't have an internet connection on HR54 and I've never seen a locally stored dvr ad.


Or perhaps have not noticed such an ad. National cable channels have commercial spots that can be used by local cable companies and the satellite companies to insert their own advertisements. Often they are used for cross channel promotions (an ad for something on the History Channel or HBO playing while watching CNN or Fox News). It becomes obvious that the cable/satellite company is inserting the ad when they mention the correct channel number for such cross channel promotions. The inserted ads could be for PPV offerings or any regular ad that someone is paying the cable/satellite system to insert.

The next step on a DVR is to predownload ads from satellite and insert them as needed over those cable/satellite inserted commercials. Technology has advanced to the point where it is hard to tell if a commercial was inserted at the headend/uplink or on one's own DVR. Some people have mentioned in threads getting different commercials on their DVR than on a non-DVR receiver while watching the same channel ... that is a good sign that the ad was locally stored. Or if one is seeing a market specific ad for local business or politician. Another sign is when one is watching an old recording and sees a current advertisement - for example watching a show recorded in mid 2018 and seeing an ad for a PPV available today. Or seeing a current local ad in an old recording.

Where you won't see cable/satellite or locally inserted ads is in local TV station feeds. So if you're mainly watching local programming you may not be seeing the feature in action.

The technology is there ... other than simply not noticing the local ads you may be in a market where DIRECTV's sales efforts are not effective enough to sell you to a local advertiser - so you get the national commercial. But the technology is still there.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

In case some of you have not experienced the ads, here is an example:










When a program is paused, the screen saver does not kick in until 5 minutes has elapsed. The advertising cycles through several like the one posted above, but then reverts to the nature scenes.

I am not overly concerned with this behavior. Rather than pause a program for an extended period of time (e.g. more than 5 minutes), I typically exit to a music channel. When I want to resume watching the program, I simply press the Previous button on the remote. I hate silence, which is why I don't use pause.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If Directv put in ads immediately when you pause it is going to piss off a lot of sports viewers I'm sure!


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> Or perhaps have not noticed such an ad. National cable channels have commercial spots that can be used by local cable companies and the satellite companies to insert their own advertisements. Often they are used for cross channel promotions (an ad for something on the History Channel or HBO playing while watching CNN or Fox News). It becomes obvious that the cable/satellite company is inserting the ad when they mention the correct channel number for such cross channel promotions. The inserted ads could be for PPV offerings or any regular ad that someone is paying the cable/satellite system to insert.
> 
> The next step on a DVR is to predownload ads from satellite and insert them as needed over those cable/satellite inserted commercials. Technology has advanced to the point where it is hard to tell if a commercial was inserted at the headend/uplink or on one's own DVR. Some people have mentioned in threads getting different commercials on their DVR than on a non-DVR receiver while watching the same channel ... that is a good sign that the ad was locally stored. Or if one is seeing a market specific ad for local business or politician. Another sign is when one is watching an old recording and sees a current advertisement - for example watching a show recorded in mid 2018 and seeing an ad for a PPV available today. Or seeing a current local ad in an old recording.
> 
> ...


OK and I remember that debate from years ago, whether they were brought down by the satellite or inserted into the dvr, if the 2018 example is really true then that proves your assertion but the question still remains, if they were inserting ads into the dvr were they only able to do it via the internet?

But don't you believe it is a greater tech leap to have those ads appear when you hit pause on the dvr as opposed to overlaying them on a national commercial?


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

slice1900 said:


> If Directv put in ads immediately when you pause it is going to piss off a lot of sports viewers I'm sure!


It would be horrible, if they wanted full motion video ads to appear when the 5 minute screensaver arrives, fine, I can deal with that, but after every pause during an NBA game, God awful.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> Or perhaps have not noticed such an ad. National cable channels have commercial spots that can be used by local cable companies and the satellite companies to insert their own advertisements. Often they are used for cross channel promotions (an ad for something on the History Channel or HBO playing while watching CNN or Fox News). It becomes obvious that the cable/satellite company is inserting the ad when they mention the correct channel number for such cross channel promotions. The inserted ads could be for PPV offerings or any regular ad that someone is paying the cable/satellite system to insert.
> 
> The next step on a DVR is to predownload ads from satellite and insert them as needed over those cable/satellite inserted commercials. Technology has advanced to the point where it is hard to tell if a commercial was inserted at the headend/uplink or on one's own DVR. Some people have mentioned in threads getting different commercials on their DVR than on a non-DVR receiver while watching the same channel ... that is a good sign that the ad was locally stored. Or if one is seeing a market specific ad for local business or politician. Another sign is when one is watching an old recording and sees a current advertisement - for example watching a show recorded in mid 2018 and seeing an ad for a PPV available today. Or seeing a current local ad in an old recording.
> 
> ...




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/DirecTV/comments/4i8heg

Proves your point but again, how are they swapping these commercials out and can they make them appear when you hit pause without the internet?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

GordonGekko said:


> Proves your point but again, how are they swapping these commercials out and can they make them appear when you hit pause without the internet?


The same way local on the 8s is able to be triggered on The Weather Channel on receivers without an internet connection, including the D1x series. For local ads, there's cue tones sent over the master feeds to trigger local avails, DirecTV passes that information to your DVR and at the designated times when those tones are received your DVR playbacks the content that was pre-recorded from the hidden ad push channels in the 8870-8897 range on the reserved space of your DVR's hard drive. That information is kept in your DVR recordings so newer content from that reserved space plays when your DVR recording hits a local avail.

As for the screenshot that was shown with A Star is Born, that's pretty much what Netflix now does if you keep pause on too long or stay on the selection screen without selecting content. They start a slideshow of other things to watch on Netflix. (Although you won't see that if you're watching Netflix on an older Bluray player or smart tv that still has star ratings instead of up/down voting since it stopped getting feature updates from Netflix)


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

KyL416 said:


> The same way local on the 8s triggers on The Weather Channel on receivers without an internet connection, including the D1x series. There's cue tones sent over the master feeds for local avails, DirecTV passes that information to your DVR and at the designated times when those tones are received your DVR playbacks the content that was pre-recorded from the hidden ad push channels in the 8870-8897 range on the reserved space of your DVR's hard drive. That information is kept in your DVR recordings so newer content from that reserved space plays during local avails.
> 
> As for the screenshot that was shown, that's pretty much what Netflix now does if you keep pause on too long or stay on the selection screen without selecting content. They start a slideshow of other things to watch on Netflix.


I will check but I don't recall ever getting local Weather Channel information but OK if this is possible, can they trigger the ads with a pause button push?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

You have to watch during live weather programming and when it's a full screen version and not limited to the L bar. At last check that now only happens during the :18 and :48 Local on the 8s, after the local avail breaks at :15 and :45.

I doubt they'd trigger immediately when you press pause, it would happen when the screensaver kicks in.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> But don't you believe it is a greater tech leap to have those ads appear when you hit pause on the dvr as opposed to overlaying them on a national commercial?


A trigger is a trigger. The hard part (capturing and storing the ad and having it available for replay) is done. What is the difference between being triggered while watching a national TV channel and being triggered when pause is pressed? The signal says "play" the commercial is played. It is not rocket science.

I hope that AT&T|DIRECTV never starts a video promo at the moment of pause. Five minutes later (as the screensaver ads are apparently playing) is less intrusive. When I pause I want the DVR to pause - period - nothing else. A "screen saver" intended to save your screen from burn in if paused too long has a benefit. Instantly playing ads would be too intrusive.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

To Mr. Long’s point, we have several DVR’s, and multiple TV’s viewable from any room at our house. When the exact same program is on multiple DVR’s at the same time, some DVR’s show the local ad insert, and some don’t. My wife tells me all the time, there’s different commercials on the different IRD’s, on the same channel every day.

It all depends if the particular IRD gets the cue tone or not for the commercial break.....


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> A trigger is a trigger. The hard part (capturing and storing the ad and having it available for replay) is done. What is the difference between being triggered while watching a national TV channel and being triggered when pause is pressed? The signal says "play" the commercial is played. It is not rocket science.
> 
> I hope that AT&T|DIRECTV never starts a video promo at the moment of pause. Five minutes later (as the screensaver ads are apparently playing) is less intrusive. When I pause I want the DVR to pause - period - nothing else. A "screen saver" intended to save your screen from burn in if paused too long has a benefit. Instantly playing ads would be too intrusive.


Again you might be right but it appears that they place an ad in the file that is your program, e.g. they can place their ad somewhere in the file of your saved/recorded program, that is a different technological technique, the ability to place that ad into a pause screen, at least I think it would be more difficult.

The difference is that now the commercial is resting in the file, 1st commercial break or perhaps in the last commercial break, not dependent on anything, you say dependent on a play button but that is not really the trigger, it is not appearing exactly when you hit play, only when you reach the moment in the file it has been placed.

If they can do this so easily why are the current screensaver ads only appearing if you have your receiver connected to the internet? I guess only time will tell but yes if this occurs, I will be trying other cable services.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

KyL416 said:


> You have to watch during live weather programming and when it's a full screen version and not limited to the L bar. At last check that now only happens during the :18 and :48 Local on the 8s, after the local avail breaks at :15 and :45.
> 
> I doubt they'd trigger immediately when you press pause, it would happen when the screensaver kicks in.


I'll check it out tomorrow but I've never seen a local town Weather Channel report or graphic of any kind, one of the only things that I wanted but not enough to make me connect the internet.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

GordonGekko said:


> it appears that they place an ad in the file that is your program, e.g. they can place their ad somewhere in the file of your saved/recorded program,


The ad is NOT in the file of your DVR recording. The receiver seamlessly switches the playback to one of the stored local ads in the reserved space of your hard drive for however long the local avail is and then switches back to your recording once the local avail is over.



GordonGekko said:


> one of the only things that I wanted but not enough to make me connect the internet.


Again, local on the 8s does NOT use your internet connection. Even the red button local weather app and severe weather alerts popup on channel 362 works without an internet connection on receivers as old as the D1x series. (Not to be confused with the internet based TV apps you access by pressing the right arrow on any channel) You just have to make sure your home zip code in the red button app is set to a valid physical zip code, it tends to have problems if people use a PO Box only zip code or one of those virtual zips that are building/company specific that some larger cities have.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

KyL416 said:


> The ad is NOT in the file of your DVR recording. The receiver seamlessly switches the playback to one of the stored local ads in the reserved space of your hard drive for however long the local avail is and then switches back to your recording once the local avail is over.
> 
> Again, local on the 8s does NOT use your internet connection. Even the red button local weather app and severe weather alerts popup on channel 362 works without an internet connection. (Not to be confused with the internet based TV apps you access by pressing the right arrow on any channel)


How do they switch the ads?

Local on the 8's, what does it show, if I live in Austin, Texas, does it show your daily forecast just for Austin, if that is what Local on the 8's does then it never worked for me. And again it appears you agree that a pause button trigger would be more difficult, I can see how they could do local on the 8's and I know the red button works but Directv already knows the zip code of each receiver, I don't see how this ties in to what some advertising goon from ATT is claiming they are about to unleash.

How about the pause button, can they accomplish this without your receiver connected to the internet?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

GordonGekko said:


> How do they switch the ads?


They're already stored in a reserved space on your hard drive after they're pushed via recordings on hidden channels in the 8000s. (Check the Hybrid tab on Gary's transponder maps if you want to see those specific channel numbers and what satellites they originate from)

The ad insertions is a dynamic thing that targets based on channel, genre, program, etc. i.e if you watch a recording of Monday Night Raw from last year and it gets to the local avail, it would switch to the recently stored promo for an upcoming local WWE show in your area, and then switch back to your recording once the local avail is over. While a recording of South Park might switch to a recently stored cross-channel promo for the new season of American Dad or Miracle Workers on TBS tagged with DirecTV's channel number for TBS 247.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

GordonGekko said:


> How do they switch the ads?
> 
> Local on the 8's, what does it show, if I live in Austin, Texas, does it show your daily forecast just for Austin, if that is what Local on the 8's does then it never worked for me. And again it appears you agree that a pause button trigger would be more difficult, I can see how they could do local on the 8's and I know the red button works but Directv already knows the zip code of each receiver, I don't see how this ties in to what some advertising goon from ATT is claiming they are about to unleash.
> 
> How about the pause button, can they accomplish this without your receiver connected to the internet?


If the weather does not tell you the local stuff it is probable that you have not set it up. You have to enter the zip code in the area that says My Cities. ?? I have not done this in a long time and I have an old HR24.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

jimmie57 said:


> If the weather does not tell you the local stuff it is probable that you have not set it up. You have to enter the zip code in the area that says My Cities. ?? I have not done this in a long time and I have an old HR24.


You are on target, yes, when I check the settings, for zip code it reads, "00000". Now for the red button thing, maybe they are using my service address.

Update: I misread your post, the red button weather info works, not sure if I manually put in the zip code or Directv had it entered already.

I am referring to any local info The Weather Channel offers, I don't get any of that and when I check "Settings/Imfo", the zip code is 00000, not sure if that matters.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

GordonGekko said:


> You are on target, yes, when I check the settings, for zip code it reads, "00000". Now for the red button thing, maybe they are using my service address.


You do this while sitting on the Weather Channel. Not the zip code in the receiver set up.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> Again you might be right but it appears that they place an ad in the file that is your program,


NO! The DVR insert ads are not placed within the program. They are separate files stored separately on the receiver. During playback of a program with a cue (either live or from recording) the trigger is seen, the DVR leaves the file playing the program, plays the commercial being inserted, then returns to the original program being played. (And if watching "live" don't forget that nothing is live on a DVR ... the satellite feed is playing through a buffer.)



GordonGekko said:


> If they can do this so easily why are the current screensaver ads only appearing if you have your receiver connected to the internet?


The current nature scenes screen saver is using Internet images. They could shift to satellite delivered images in the future ... or play video commercials. It clearly has been demonstrated that content CAN be transferred to DVRs without using the Internet - and that no Internet connection is required to trigger DVR insert ads. It would be a simple matter to play back DVR inserts during pauses *if* AT&T|DIRECTV decides to do so.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> NO! The DVR insert ads are not placed within the program. They are separate files stored separately on the receiver. During playback of a program with a cue (either live or from recording) the trigger is seen, the DVR leaves the file playing the program, plays the commercial being inserted, then returns to the original program being played. (And if watching "live" don't forget that nothing is live on a DVR ... the satellite feed is playing through a buffer.)
> 
> The current nature scenes screen saver is using Internet images. They could shift to satellite delivered images in the future ... or play video commercials. It clearly has been demonstrated that content CAN be transferred to DVRs without using the Internet - and that no Internet connection is required to trigger DVR insert ads. It would be a simple matter to play back DVR inserts during pauses *if* AT&T|DIRECTV decides to do so.


From what I just read those ads respond to ad markers or cues from the original broadcast, yes they can be transferred but you have not proven that they can be triggered by a pause button, now of course my question is not fair as nobody can prove it without access to Directv/ATT's proprietary information.

It does not make much sense for Directv to limit the screensaver ads to internet only connected receivers, if they have the capability to shill for "A Star Is Born" on all receivers, why choose not to?

The crazy thing is I've never seen a local ad ever on my HR54 and I usually FF2 just to see if any interesting commercials appear. And I've never seen a Weather Channel local forecast geared solely to my zip code. How about Directv's privacy opt outs, maybe they impact these local ads, I don't know and I do understand that I could have missed a local ad but I am skeptical.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

GordonGekko said:


> You are on target, yes, when I check the settings, for zip code it reads, "00000". Now for the red button thing, maybe they are using my service address.
> 
> Update: I misread your post, the red button weather info works, not sure if I manually put in the zip code or Directv had it entered already.
> 
> I am referring to any local info The Weather Channel offers, I don't get any of that and when I check "Settings/Imfo", the zip code is 00000, not sure if that matters.


When you open the App while on the weather channel and choose my cities, the one on the very bottom is your home city. Go there and put in your zip code and on the 8's of the hour you will get your local info.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> From what I just read those ads respond to ad markers or cues from the original broadcast, yes they can be transferred but you have not proven that they can be triggered by a pause button, now of course my question is not fair as nobody can prove it without access to Directv/ATT's proprietary information.


A trigger is a trigger ... I'm not sure why you are being so obstinate about this. The receiver is quite capable of noticing that the user pressed the pause button and following whatever steps are programmed in the software to respond to the pause button. There is no special magic that says all a pause button can do is the current steps (pause image, put up pause banner, set timer for screen saver, wait for further instructions). If you think about it, the pause button routine is already smart enough to do something different if the plaback is paused when pause is pressed. Make a mistake in programming and the "pause button" trigger could be programmed to return receiver to factory setting, or change to the Audience Channel, or any other function the receiver could perform - a trigger is a trigger.



GordonGekko said:


> It does not make much sense for Directv to limit the screensaver ads to internet only connected receivers, if they have the capability to shill for "A Star Is Born" on all receivers, why choose not to?


AT&T|DIRECTV makes a lot of decisions that are baffling. If it were up to me I'd transmit the static slate images via satellite (if only to save their Internet bandwidth). It is not up to me.



GordonGekko said:


> The crazy thing is I've never seen a local ad ever on my HR54 and I usually FF2 just to see if any interesting commercials appear.


Fast forwarding is a good way to miss the trigger and not get the DVR inserted advertisement.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

jimmie57 said:


> When you open the App while on the weather channel and choose my cities, the one on the very bottom is your home city. Go there and put in your zip code and on the 8's of the hour you will get your local info.


I do have my zip in that app and it shows my 3 day forecast (when the red button is pushed) but I just watched Local on the 8's and all it did was cycle through a ton of cities across America, nothing local.

The radar/sat portion, same thing, they do Northeast followed by Southeast etc.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

GordonGekko said:


> I do have my zip in that app and it shows my 3 day forecast (when the red button is pushed) but I just watched Local on the 8's and all it did was cycle through a ton of cities across America, nothing local.
> 
> The radar/sat portion, same thing, they do Northeast followed by Southeast etc.


Yep, it appears that you are correct. Mine just went from 2:25 to 2:30 and nothing popped up on it's own. This is on channel 362. I have not tried 361.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The :28 version is limited to the L bar. The full screen versions tend to only happen at :18 and :48, with some variations if there's breaking live coverage.

You also have to tune to the channel a few minutes in advanced for it to work since it needs time to pull the data for your area from the satellite datastream. Tuning in at :10 or :40 should give it enough time to load.

EDIT: Here's snapshots of what I got at :48, and to prove that it's coming from satellite, I also disconnected my internet:












































Also which zip code are you using? I want to try changing my zip code to yours to see if it's the same zip code specifc issue that another user reported a few months ago that was fixed by changing the zip code in the red button app to another one for their city.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

KyL416 said:


> The :28 version is limited to the L bar. The full screen versions tend to only happen at :18 and :48, with some variations if there's breaking live coverage.
> 
> You also have to tune to the channel a few minutes in advanced for it to work since it needs time to pull the data for your area from the satellite datastream. Tuning in at :10 or :40 should give it enough time to load.
> 
> ...


I've followed all of your instructions, nothing, never have seen a zip code specific graphic like you have, is it possible that you needed to have the internet connected to start it and once disconnected it still works, I don't know but I'm hoping that if they can't deliver the weather info to me, they can't deliver the ads but that could be wishful thinking.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I have been pausing the DVR on purpose to observe the behavior of the screensaver. For the last 4-5 days, I have seen no more promos for DTV programming, just the nature images.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I've noticed on mine that sometimes it has the nature images and then it will throw in a couple of the promos and then back to nature images.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I know when the promos appeared on my DVR, they didn’t last long. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I tested this last night I still get the nature images 
(Genie 2 ) 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk


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## Spooklight (Oct 25, 2018)

Jeesh, how long did it take for adverts?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I have not been following most of this thread but from the little I have read it seems the consensus is that the adds are sent via satellite and are stored.

I am not so sure of this. I have not had my system hooked up to the Internet for at least 6 months and right now none of my DVRs are showing nature scenes or adds. I am still getting the bouncy logo! I am not sure why but it looks like an internet component is needed for something.
Are they really sending all those target adds via satellite or targeting customers via local hubs on the internet?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> I have not been following most of this thread but from the little I have read it seems the consensus is that the adds are sent via satellite and are stored.


We were talking about the local ads that are inserted on national channels at designated local avail times, which are pushed in advanced to your hard drive via hidden PUSH channels in the 8000s. Those are things like ads for local businesses or cross-channel spots for programs on other channels that include DirecTV's channel numbers.

It's not the same thing as the promotional stills that appear during the screensaver slideshow, similar to what Netflix does when you leave pause on for an extended amount of time. That content currently originates from the internet.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Other than curiousity about how things work, I don’t understand why it makes a difference how the nature screensavers are arriving at the DVR. There is nothing wrong with the nature screensavers, and I still see the occasional promo for DTV programs (not ads for products). The promos stay on the screen for 5-10 seconds, and then the next nature scene appears. Totally harmless and nothing to be concerned about, IMO. And I would never consider unplugging from the internet because I still download the occasional on-demand program.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I believe the fear is that the ads will become videos instead of still images, and that those ads will play immediately when a show is paused instead of after a delay. There remains uncertainty that DIRECTV would ever do such advertising (even though it has been mentioned). And doubt that such ads COULD be done. By definition FUD - fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Since the current nature scenes screen saver is Internet connected it is speculation that the "video ads during pause feature" that has not yet been introduced (or even tested!?) must be Internet connected. Video ads currently used on DIRECTV do not require an Internet connection. Video ads currently used on DIRECTV are not triggered via the Internet. The ads are currently present and ready to play on DVRs so ... why not?

The nature scenes screen saver is not immediate on pause so I would not expect a video ad to be immediate. To be most effective any ad needs to be played when someone is watching. A static advertising image during the nature scenes screen saver is likely to be missed (who is watching the screen saver?). A video ad would be more disruptive ... a moving image probably with sound. I imagine it would annoy people who were expecting silence when their DVRs are paused. But it would attract attention. And that (even if partially annoying) is what advertisers want: attention.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

James Long said:


> I believe the fear is that the ads will become videos instead of still images, and that those ads will play immediately when a show is paused instead of after a delay. There remains uncertainty that DIRECTV would ever do such advertising (even though it has been mentioned). And doubt that such ads COULD be done. By definition FUD - fear, uncertainty and doubt.
> 
> Since the current nature scenes screen saver is Internet connected it is speculation that the "video ads during pause feature" that has not yet been introduced (or even tested!?) must be Internet connected. Video ads currently used on DIRECTV do not require an Internet connection. Video ads currently used on DIRECTV are not triggered via the Internet. The ads are currently present and ready to play on DVRs so ... why not?
> 
> The nature scenes screen saver is not immediate on pause so I would not expect a video ad to be immediate. To be most effective any ad needs to be played when someone is watching. A static advertising image during the nature scenes screen saver is likely to be missed (who is watching the screen saver?). A video ad would be more disruptive ... a moving image probably with sound. I imagine it would annoy people who were expecting silence when their DVRs are paused. But it would attract attention. And that (even if partially annoying) is what advertisers want: attention.


Check my previous posts, it was discussed by an ATT advertising exec during an earnings call, full motion video ads triggered by the pause button to be rolled out in 2019. We all know there is much smoke created during these earnings calls, tons of BS issued to mollify Wall Street but if AT&T stated it, we should take it seriously. Look what they did this week with HBO's CEO, they seem to be favoring quantity over quality.

Full motion video ads when pause is triggered would cause me to immediately explore other waters, if the video ad forced you to play the entire thing, I'm definitely leaving Directv.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GordonGekko said:


> Check my previous posts, it was discussed by an ATT advertising exec during an earnings call, full motion video ads triggered by the pause button to be rolled out in 2019.


When all other "forward looking statements" become 100% true I'll believe every "forward looking station" verbatim.
Still waiting for the "DIRECTV via IP" service that people claim will include every channel in the DIRECTV satellite lineup. When will that be released?

"Things that we are looking at" are not guarantees of future events being exactly what people expect.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

James Long said:


> When all other "forward looking statements" become 100% true I'll believe every "forward looking station" verbatim.
> Still waiting for the "DIRECTV via IP" service that people claim will include every channel in the DIRECTV satellite lineup. When will that be released?


Should be any day now right? They said first quarter 2019 didn't they? :grinning:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

b4pjoe said:


> Should be any day now right? They said first quarter 2019 didn't they? :grinning:


wait another month


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

"Soon"


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Should be any day now right? They said first quarter 2019 didn't they? :grinning:


I thought they changed it to second quarter?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I just paused for a refreshment break, and a series of promos for DTV PPV movies started displaying, each lasting ~15 seconds. Is’s on the 7th promo right now showing no sign of stopping, and I am returning to my recording.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> I thought they changed it to second quarter?


They might have. I haven't been following it. I'd still be shocked to see it in the second quarter.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

slice1900 said:


> I thought they changed it to second quarter?


The articles that I linked to did not report any quarter, it was "sometime in 2019", there is also the possibility that if Directv is going to try this, it might be on Directv Now and not on the satellite.

Update: I am referring to pause/video ads, you are referring to Directv IPTV, ignore my post.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> They might have. I haven't been following it. I'd still be shocked to see it in the second quarter.


Since they originally said it would be before the end of the year (2018) and it has been slowly pushed back, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was pushed back further. There are so many things they need to get right if they want a smooth launch and any one of them could end up taking longer than planned and push back the release. They're better off waiting and getting it right than pushing it out before it isn't ready and getting a lot of bad press.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> Since they originally said it would be before the end of the year (2018) and it has been slowly pushed back, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was pushed back further. There are so many things they need to get right if they want a smooth launch and any one of them could end up taking longer than planned and push back the release. They're better off waiting and getting it right than pushing it out before it isn't ready and getting a lot of bad press.


Oh I agree. But missing those dates gets bad press too.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I expect to be underwhelmed when "DIRECTV over IP" rolls out. Partially because I never believed in the version that those reporting the initial comments on the potential service were claiming would be released and partially because more recent comments have scaled back the offering to something less robust than "everything on DTV satellite via IP".


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Oh I agree. But missing those dates gets bad press too.


Since they've never made any official (i.e. customer facing, rather than investor facing) announcements about a date, or even the existence of this product, I doubt they'll see much bad press. You can't blame a company for missing a launch date they never announced for a product that they never advertised.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> I expect to be underwhelmed when "DIRECTV over IP" rolls out. Partially because I never believed in the version that those reporting the initial comments on the potential service were claiming would be released and partially because more recent comments have scaled back the offering to something less robust than "everything on DTV satellite via IP".


I suspect they've scaled it back because there are some contractual issues with offering "everything". Maybe they will be missing locals in some markets, or a few channels.

The question is whether it will be close enough that 99% of potential customers wouldn't notice the difference, or care if they were told the difference. Obviously if it was missing something big like NFLST that would be a problem.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> We were talking about the local ads that are inserted on national channels at designated local avail times, which are pushed in advanced to your hard drive via hidden PUSH channels in the 8000s. Those are things like ads for local businesses or cross-channel spots for programs on other channels that include DirecTV's channel numbers.
> 
> It's not the same thing as the promotional stills that appear during the screensaver slideshow, similar to what Netflix does when you leave pause on for an extended amount of time. That content currently originates from the internet.


Thanks for the info.
As to the other comments about streaming adds, I would find that extremely annoying! Most of the time I pause a show so I can answer the phone or say something to my wife: I need silence and I don't want to now have to mute the TV as well as pause DTV.
I really hope they don't go in this direction, after all I am paying for the service, it's not like I am getting free TV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> I really hope they don't go in this direction, after all I am paying for the service, it's not like I am getting free TV.


Sadly ads are becoming an extension of TV.

People have been complaining on this site (and others) for decades about having any commercials at all in channels that they pay for. The ability to skip/slip past commercials with the press of a button has helped, but they have still been an annoyance for decades. But we have been told that those commercials reduce the cost of each channel - and we have been asked to accept the commercials in order to keep down the cost of the "basic cable" channels. (And yet the cost of "basic cable" channels still goes up every year.)

Some streaming services offer with commercials and without commercials options. The "with commercials" option has become "commercial viewing required" on most services. Programming content can be skipped but those commercials must be played. When there are technological reasons why the distributor cannot tell what part of a program is content and what part is commercial often nothing in the program can be skipped. The commercials have become "must see TV". If you don't see commercials, you don't see the content you are paying for. One can pay more for "without commercials" with some services - but even that is becoming a "less commercials" option instead of a "no commercials" options.

And I expect to be told once again that the channels and packages we want to watch would be incredibly more expensive if we didn't have those commercials. It is a story we have been hearing for decades so it must be true. The only difference in this decade is that technology has caught up with the desire to force people to view ads. All the distributors have to do is turn it on. And when people complain hope that the other services also have strong negatives and they can keep customers by not being as bad as the other providers.

Cable and satellite customer satisfaction has been low for decades. People suffering through poor cable/satellite customer service has been a meme longer than there have been memes. Last year the #1 rated company had a 67% satisfaction rating (which sounds high based on the general level of complaints about all cable/satellite companies). Making decisions that annoys customers is just part of the job - and unless some company breaks away, gives customers everything they want AND still manages to stay in business I expect "making the tough decisions that can annoy customers" will remain part of the industry.


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## WalkGood (Nov 18, 2006)

I first got the beautiful landscape images after pausing a few minutes, started about 2 weeks ago. Never the time or weather. Two days ago, I got DirecTV Cinema Ch 1100 still pics ads. After a bunch of diff ads, it went to the nature images.

Last week, my nature images had a "watermark injection" notification from my ISP (Optimum/Altice)!

So the images are internet based (yes my DTV HR44-500 box is connected to interwebz via my WiFi ). 

I'll start a new thread about the injected notifications into the DTV nature screensaver pics.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

What is "a "watermark injection" notification from my ISP"?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JerryMeeker said:


> What is "a "watermark injection" notification from my ISP"?


ISP injected notification into DTV screensaver pics


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

This is my rant (sorry for this) about AT&T and the possibility of video during pause. The day that happens is the day I seriously consider leaving DirecTV after years and years. Now my AT&T rant:

I knew the second that AT&T bought DirecTV quality would start to decrease in all aspects. This is a company that cares very little about consumers and is out for every nickel and dime. First thing I noticed is them throwing their logo EVERYWHERE. Second thing I noticed is them moving their CS overseas (I used to call up and get a lot of folks in Texas, now it's some Eastern European country). Next, I noticed their hard sell of mobile service on every call. I now notice that I don't seem to get the types of "freebies" I used to. I remember getting a a few unsolicited months of some premium channel about once a year, just for being a loyal customer. Not seeing that anymore. Obviously prices have been going up and up. And many of us can tell that the new GUI was not ready for prime time and we questioned why it was released with SO many bugs. I attribute this to increased cost cutting. And it seems that they don't handle customer beta testing the same way either.

And now look at the company's MO in other businesses they recently purchased. They just re-orged the whole Warner media that they purchased, which will lead to a LOT of layoffs. HBO, the flagship of their purchase is, according to their CEO, "not making enough money". Seriously. So they want more and more original programming, more like the Netflix model. A LOT of crap, a few good shows. HBO's reputation as being the gold standard for TV is going by the wayside. And, they've also jettisoned boxing after MANY years, simply because people don't buy HBO for boxing anymore, silly. I'll bet, reading into their re-org that sports will be moved off ofTBS and TNT and will end up on some other channel which, of course, we'll have to pay for (or, they'll charge providers for the new channel some high amount). And there's also rumors that channels such as TruTV could be moved to streaming only. Again, less for more.

Now back to DirecTV, I don't honestly see any kind of increase in quality of service, outside of a few 4K offerings, and they seem to be offering equipment that will offer less instead of more. For example the HS-17 forces us to give up any secondary DVRs we currently own.

The last straw will video during pauses. There are a few reasons why I might pause something. One is to talk about something that happened in what I'm watching. Another is to go do something else (like bio-breaks) and a third is to take a phone call. Well if I'm on the phone, I don't want some video blaring out of my speakers. But either way, I want quiet.

With AT&T it's all about the money. Nothing else matters.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

I often pause live TV for long periods. Sometimes to the point of hitting the end of the buffer. Yes that is how I like to watch live TV sometimes. Having it play a video while paused will make me think I have run out of buffer.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Well I can understand that. I am done with watching commercials. I am completely done paying them twice to watch a show. Double dipping the customer should be illegal.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> Well I can understand that. I am done with watching commercials. I am completely done paying them twice to watch a show. Double dipping the customer should be illegal.


The channel's price includes selling their viewers to advertisers. Only the premium channels sell themselves as "commercial free". (Non commercial stations still have "promotional content" between programs, built in to programs and serving as program length sponsor acknowledgements.)

There is no law that says channels can only receive one form of payment.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Paused live TV last night for a bathroom break (I know - too much information). When I came back to the TV there was a slide promoting 'Billions' and the free Showtime preview. Then it flipped to the normal slides showing national park pictures.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The channel's price includes selling their viewers to advertisers. Only the premium channels sell themselves as "commercial free". (Non commercial stations still have "promotional content" between programs, built in to programs and serving as program length sponsor acknowledgements.)
> 
> There is no law that says channels can only receive one form of payment.


 We all started watching TV decades ago with a mutual understanding that if I watch your commercials that in turn pays for the shows I see. The carriers very cunningly changed that understanding when Sat and Cable arrived. We got the premium channels with a new understanding that if we pay for the premium stuff like HBO it was commercial free. That in itself was fine but it shortly morphed into something else.

They soon started bundling in stations that added to the overall fees and these stations included an ever growing amount of commercials. I remember when CNN first came on the air on C-Band and it had almost no commercials. I think the only main commercial was for Ginsu knives. Soon after more and more ads where added to the point that it was on Par with OTA network stations. Then came merger after merger and it meant that in order to get five good minor channels like Discovery Ch. or CNN. I had to pay for 30 useless channels that could never survive on their own. All of these channels now have loads of commercials and yet I am paying to watch them. I am not buying into the story that the commercials are needed for income for the stations to survive or to offset my fee's. I think they are the icing on a very fat cake.

This is why DirecTv and Dish and so many cable companies will ultimately fail. People don't have the time or patience for commercials anymore and anybody that sticks to that model will be eaten alive by the likes of Netflix, Amazon and the host of other commercial free streaming services that are coming. Directv's attempt at a streaming service will fail for sure because it includes commercials and still maintains a high price tag.

I don't know about you guys but as I said i am no longer able to watch shows with commercials! It's distracting and kills the story. I can live with Fast Forwarding through them on a DVR but I find myself gravitating more and more each month to streaming services that have no interruptions.

As for the law, your right, but in a perfect world there would be one for this double dipping they are doing. Luckily the public will fix the problem by voting with their wallets.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Paused live TV last night for a bathroom break (I know - too much information). When I came back to the TV there was a slide promoting 'Billions' and the free Showtime preview. Then it flipped to the normal slides showing national park pictures.


I was watching the Nascar race last Sunday on my C61K for a couple hours. I didn't touch the remote control, and at about the two hour mark, the screen automatically switched to the screensaver showing national park pictures. That was impressive.......


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> This is why DirecTv and Dish and so many cable companies will ultimately fail. People don't have the time or patience for commercials anymore and anybody that sticks to that model will be eaten alive by the likes of Netflix, Amazon and the host of other commercial free streaming services that are coming.


Commercial free is not the direction the industry is moving. "Commercial free" comes at a higher cost than advertiser supported - and with streaming those commercials are often not able to be skipped. For example, Hulu is $5.99 per month, $11.99 with "no ads" (the live TV version is $44.99 per month, $50.99 with "no ads"). CBS All Access is $5.99 or $9.99 "commercial free*" (don't forget the asterisk). I'm sure you can find a higher priced limited content plan that truly has "no commercials" - but commercials are a part of the industry that is not going away.

Do you believe channels could survive on 14 cents per month per subscriber without any advertisers? I don't. Looking at Viacom's numbers for their media networks nearly half of their revenue comes from advertisers. Take away half of their revenue and they would need to double the subscription price - and then deal with partners and subscribers who would refuse to pay double, which reduces their income and would require an even higher fee per subscriber to break even with the current subscription plus advertiser income equation.

You probably don't care about the 14 cent channels ... but there are a few that my family watches. There are probably a few that you would rather not lose. Hopefully my family doesn't lose the channels we watch and you don't lose the channels you watch.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

You say that cable channels didn't have commercials when they launched. Yet people have uploaded MTV's first few hours in full on Dailymotion and Vimeo from VHS recordings made in 1981 (not the edited version that MTV Classic aired in 2016). It's full of commercials every few videos for things like the Trapper Keeper, Mountain Dew, Superman II, Chewels gum and even had local cable inserts.

Going through the channels listed in a 1983 Cablevision lineup I got from an old Long Island newspaper ad, along with channels that the long-defunct Huntington Cable TV carried:
Nickelodeon didn't go ad supported until the early 80s, but the channels it timshared with BET and later ARTS (pre-Entertainment merger) both had commercials. (There's some rare ARTS commercial and promo breaks available on YouTube)

I've seen some early 80s commercial collections from USA on YouTube, so they had commercials early on too.

Daytime and Cable Health Network, which merged to form Lifetime had commercial breaks. (The agency who did the work for most of Viacom's channels in the 80s have a website that details the creative history of the channels along with Vimeo videos of the promos they did for channels like MTV, Nick, VH1, Lifetime and HA!)

ESPN was ad supported from the start.

FNN (now merged with CNBC) had commercial breaks

TNN (now Paramount) had commercial breaks.

The Weather Channel had commercial breaks

Sportschannel (now MSG Plus) and MSG had commercial breaks

CBN (now Freeform) was initially commercial free, but by the time it became CBN Family it had regular commercial breaks.

AMC (originally a Cablevision only channel called Montage) and Bravo had origins as premium cable channels, they were commercial free until the 90s.

To this day Disney Channel is still not ad supported, even 20+ years since they transitioned to a basic cable channel their breaks are just filled with promos. 

The rest of the lineup were premium channels, C-SPAN, superstations like WTBS, WSBK and KTVU, neighboring Connecticut and Philly channels pulled in from across the water, Telicare (the local LI Catholic channel), and text generated info channels like "Newsday Channel", "On Cablevision", "Stocks", "Local Sports Scores", "NOAA", "OTB" and "Swap & Shop", some of which eventually gave way to channels that launched later in the 80s like News 12, Discovery, TNT, CNBC, VH1, CMT, and a full time A&E.

EDIT: I just found CNN's first hour online from 1980, they had regular commercial breaks every few minutes, it wasn't just knife ads, they had time life, maalox, Nestea, American Express, Contac, don't drink and drive PSAs, and other things.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dreadlk said:


> I don't know about you guys but as I said i am no longer able to watch shows with commercials! It's distracting and kills the story. I can live with Fast Forwarding through them on a DVR but I find myself gravitating more and more each month to streaming services that have no interruptions.


I have cable and I haven't watched commercials for years. That's what a DVR is for. You act as though streaming is the only way to avoid commercials.

If you want to watch anything live (sports, news, Oscars or whatever) they still have commercial breaks if you stream it, you know.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

dreadlk said:


> streaming services that have no interruptions.


It's only a matter of time before they too will have commercials.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> You say that cable channels didn't have commercials when they launched. Yet people have uploaded MTV's first few hours in full on Dailymotion and Vimeo from VHS recordings made in 1981 (not the edited version that MTV Classic aired in 2016). It's full of commercials every few videos for things like the Trapper Keeper, Mountain Dew, Superman II, Chewels gum and even had local cable inserts.
> 
> Going through the channels listed in a 1983 Cablevision lineup I got from an old Long Island newspaper ad, along with channels that the long-defunct Huntington Cable TV carried:
> Nickelodeon didn't go ad supported until the early 80s, but the channels it timshared with BET and later ARTS (pre-Entertainment merger) both had commercials. (There's some rare ARTS commercial and promo breaks available on YouTube)
> ...


I was watching HBO on C-Band from in the late 1970's and I think CNN from early 1980's, certainly no later than 1982.
It did not have any significant amount of commercials. I think a lot of people use to call it the Ginsu Knife channel because that one ad use to come on during every break. As I stated it was not long after that, that they started adding commercials in by the bucket load on some channels while others maintained only a few or no commercials. Don't be fooled it's like everything else in life, they had to slowly get you hooked before they revealed the downside. Do you really think in 1982 that cable and satellite could have ever gotten off the ground if they charged based on the current model? Nope they spent years conditioning us to accept these ridiculous bills and still keep dealing with the commercials. Just imagine going back to 1982 and telling someone that in 2015 you will be paying $2800 a year for TV and still be watching commercials. They would laugh you out of the room. I would have laughed you out of the room because I was watching all that stuff for free back then.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> It's only a matter of time before they too will have commercials.


If you think that is true you need to hang out with more teens and see what the next generation likes. First of all they have very little interest in TV at all. Give them a choice between a smart phone and a TV and they will go for the phone everytime.
They multi task texting to friends while playing video's and listening to music and then they love online gaming with groups of their friends. The little TV that they do watch comes off of sites on the Web and they are content to watch it on a tablet or phone and I might ad its commercial free.

If you think Netflix is ever going to put ads in their content your out of touch. The user base would never accept it! It would be like how the online newspapers like the Washington Post etc. Try to charge for their content. People consider News on the Internet to be free and they just avoid sites that try to charge or they publish a half dozen tricks on forums on how to bypass the fee's and read the articles for free.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Commercial free is not the direction the industry is moving. "Commercial free" comes at a higher cost than advertiser supported - and with streaming those commercials are often not able to be skipped. For example, Hulu is $5.99 per month, $11.99 with "no ads" (the live TV version is $44.99 per month, $50.99 with "no ads"). CBS All Access is $5.99 or $9.99 "commercial free*" (don't forget the asterisk). I'm sure you can find a higher priced limited content plan that truly has "no commercials" - but commercials are a part of the industry that is not going away.
> 
> Do you believe channels could survive on 14 cents per month per subscriber without any advertisers? I don't. Looking at Viacom's numbers for their media networks nearly half of their revenue comes from advertisers. Take away half of their revenue and they would need to double the subscription price - and then deal with partners and subscribers who would refuse to pay double, which reduces their income and would require an even higher fee per subscriber to break even with the current subscription plus advertiser income equation.
> 
> You probably don't care about the 14 cent channels ... but there are a few that my family watches. There are probably a few that you would rather not lose. Hopefully my family doesn't lose the channels we watch and you don't lose the channels you watch.


Your actually proving my point.
Netflix is about $15 a month for the premium 4K (four account package). Hulu is $12 a month for the premium package. YouTube is basically Free and with that you have all your news from across the globe covered.

So for $324 a year I have almost all my TV needs covered. From Networks to TV series current and old plus my news. I even have Porn channels LOL.

If I want I have about $2400 in savings that I can dip into to get ANY TV Series or Movie that I might want to watch from Amazon.

As I said the customer base is and will keep on fixing this mess by voting with their wallets.

The problem with our generations thinking is that we believe the more channels we have is the better it is. The truth is we have so many crap channels that we keep just for the sake of keeping our packages. It has been years since I have watched a single news item on channel 204, years since I went to Cinemax or Hallmark, I would say more than half the channels in my massive package have never been used to watch a full show. I stick to typically about 25 channels and only scan past the rest, almost never stopping. Even odd channels like GSN that my wife likes, she has found the episodes online and watches them on her tablet for free when she is in the kitchen.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> I have cable and I haven't watched commercials for years. That's what a DVR is for. You act as though streaming is the only way to avoid commercials.
> 
> If you want to watch anything live (sports, news, Oscars or whatever) they still have commercial breaks if you stream it, you know.


No reread my post, I said I do use the DVR to skip past commercials.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dreadlk said:


> If you think that is true you need to hang out with more teens and see what the next generation likes. First of all they have very little interest in TV at all. Give them a choice between a smart phone and a TV and they will go for the phone everytime.
> They multi task texting to friends while playing video's and listening to music and then they love online gaming with groups of their friends. The little TV that they do watch comes off of sites on the Web and they are content to watch it on a tablet or phone and I might ad its commercial free.


Really? Guess those ads on Youtube have escaped your notice...

The idea that younger people won't tolerate ads is ridiculous. They are more comfortable giving up their privacy in exchange for free stuff than any other age group (which may be because they are resigned to it, and may be because they have less disposable income due to lower salaries, student loan debt etc.) They'd flock to a free ad supported Netflix, if they were paying for Netflix at all versus using their parents or friends login.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

When I was a boy TV was free. All one needed was a outdoor antenna to receive the channels. The commercials payed for the program content. During that time I had a science teacher who told us that in the near future we'll be paying for the same channels. We all thought he was nuts. Why would people start paying for TV that they have been getting for free for years? Then along came cable and everything changed. Smartphones have service providers and service providers are a business. Same with Netflix. They are a business. The name of the game in business has and always will be profits. That said, if they can increase their profits with commercial advertising you can bet your ass they will do so regardless what age group their customers are in.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Really? Guess those ads on Youtube have escaped your notice...
> 
> The idea that younger people won't tolerate ads is ridiculous. They are more comfortable giving up their privacy in exchange for free stuff than any other age group (which may be because they are resigned to it, and may be because they have less disposable income due to lower salaries, student loan debt etc.) They'd flock to a free ad supported Netflix, if they were paying for Netflix at all versus using their parents or friends login.


I don't have an issue with a 5 second ad being put in front of a video. Heck it could be 5 minutes, it does not matter so long as when the news starts I am not interrupted. That has been my experience with CNN, CBC, Fox and BBC.

As for the kids, you are right if your talking about facebook etc. When it comes to TV they have pirate sites that they go to or they use a shared Netflix accounts. They simply don't watch commercials because almost all of their content does not have any! If it did they would probably just move on instantly. As I said have you spent any serious time around Teens? If you have then you know they have Zero patience! A four minute commercial break is like an eternity for them.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> That said, if they can increase their profits with commercial advertising you can bet your ass they will do so regardless what age group their customers are in.


That is exactly what they are all trying to do and all that is happening is that they are losing millions of customers to streaming services and Pirate sites. This situation is not getting better, it is getting a lot worst every month.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

We try to stick with LEGALLY obtained content on this site. Circumventing pay walls, blatant copyright violations, sharing accounts are as bad as sharing your satellite service with another household. It isn't good for the long term health of the distributors and as they begin to lose money from traditional distribution they WILL be paying more attention to those obtaining their content without the payment they demand.

Be aware that "commercial free" streaming isn't ALL commercial free. There are few services with zero commercials. And those services have a lot of content but CANNOT deliver every show that is available. No service can provide every program.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dreadlk said:


> When it comes to TV they have pirate sites that they go to or they use a shared Netflix accounts.


So because they are breaking the law, the future will be more of the same? A lot of people said that the music industry would never recover, because Napster trained people not to pay for music. Now Spotify has who knows how many users on their free tier listening to music - and ads so they don't have to pay for it.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> You say that cable channels didn't have commercials when they launched. Yet people have uploaded MTV's first few hours in full on Dailymotion and Vimeo from VHS recordings made in 1981 (not the edited version that MTV Classic aired in 2016). It's full of commercials every few videos for things like the Trapper Keeper, .........


Yikes....I had a Trapper Keeper in 6th grade. Thanks for the reference! God I feel old......


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> So because they are breaking the law, the future will be more of the same? A lot of people said that the music industry would never recover, because Napster trained people not to pay for music. Now Spotify has who knows how many users on their free tier listening to music - and ads so they don't have to pay for it.


The music industry has never recovered. In the old days artist sold whole albums for good money, kind of like TV bundling 
Because of the low bandwidth requirements at the time, MP3's killed the market and it was later resurrected by iTunes and others. The big difference is you can now pay 99 cents and get the song you want and skip the rest.

Now that Bandwidth speeds are several hundred times higher the video industry is taking the same beating. Ultimately they will have to do what the music industry did and unbundle these packages and survive with a lot less income.

Just Like Napster they are trying to get rid of "K***" product but these guys have gotten smarter and make a legal product. The end user is the one that breaks the law by installing illegal plugins. How do you fight that? So yes history is pretty much repeating itself.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> We try to stick with LEGALLY obtained content on this site. Circumventing pay walls, blatant copyright violations, sharing accounts are as bad as sharing your satellite service with another household. It isn't good for the long term health of the distributors and as they begin to lose money from traditional distribution they WILL be paying more attention to those obtaining their content without the payment they demand.
> 
> Be aware that "commercial free" streaming isn't ALL commercial free. There are few services with zero commercials. And those services have a lot of content but CANNOT deliver every show that is available. No service can provide every program.


I totally agree, the content will go down the tubes if this path is taken but we cannot put blinders on and pretend that it is not happening. I will not discuss this further but was just pointing out that the majority of the younger generation does not share our values on this particular subject.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The point is, if the video industry cannot get the money they need to survive through paid subscriptions they will turn to advertising. It may start with embedding a "must watch" advertisement at the beginning of a stream (which is easily skipped by starting the show then going off for your popcorn and snacks and bathroom trip while the ads play - similar to watching a movie at a theater). It will move to embedding advertisements within the content.

Television has since it's inception had a format that included commercial breaks. "A word from our sponsor" in the middle of the show is as much a part of television as the early stars the younger generation never knew existed. The challenge now that commercials can be skipped is to get people to watch them. One way is to make the program content compelling enough that people feel the need to watch live. Turn the shows into events where the viewer feels that they are missing out if they are watching more than a few minutes delayed - or with any delay at all. Turn shows into social media events where the show is better with live interaction such as voting and discussing the program with the cast or fellow viewers. Once a programmer has a live audience the trap is set for inserted advertising. If viewers feel that they cannot turn away the advertiser gets the "impressions".

Product placement ads have also been a part of television since the beginning. Shows named after their sponsors with logos clearly visible are not new. There was a product placement boom about 30 years ago that was most obvious in movies (since they don't have commercial breaks in theaters). It is why Superman fought a battle in Metropolis on a city street filled with Marlboro trucks and ET found "Reecse Pieces" in the movie when he found "M&M"s in the book. Most placement is more subtle with "promotional consideration" given for a certain brand of computer or car to be featured on screen. Sometimes the subtle nature is lost when car chases look more like advertisements for the vehicles (a lot of tight shots including the vehicle logos). I still remember a scene from Hawaii Five-O a few years ago where they spent a couple of minutes selling Subway sandwiches instead of advancing the plot. Similar scenes can be found in other programming.

So the "younger generation" has a choice - or more accurately, they don't have a choice. Advertisements WILL find their way into their programs. They already have. Product placements are common and a lot of TV is still designed around taking a break from the story every few minutes. A perfect place for an advertisement. The only question will be "do you want to pay $50 and see 30 second ad breaks or $15 and see 2:30 ad breaks".

The war is on between content owners and those working to disrupt payment. Content providers are not stupid. They understand that people are using technology to circumvent ad viewing and payment and they are fighting back. Since their survival is on the line I expect the content owners to win - and if they somehow don't win then I expect the viewers to lose when the content owners take the ball and go home (so to speak).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Advertisers want impressions. They want people to see their ads. If putting ads (such as the promos seen during the screen saver) provides impressions they will use that method. Hopefully they won't take the next step and insert video ads with audio in the screen savers. I have seen that online, but not on a site that demanded money for content. At least, not yet.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I have been away from the forum for a while. I am glad you are all talking about this. I am enraged that these commercial screen savers on my HR44 are over riding my Panasonic's sleep function. Instead of falling asleep all through the night after hitting pause, I am waking up to the whole room flashing like I did not hit pause. 
The only work around I have come up with is to change the video input to my tv after hitting pause. But I forget all the time and I am not always sure I am falling asleep.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

armophob said:


> I have been away from the forum for a while. I am glad you are all talking about this. I am enraged that these commercial screen savers on my HR44 are over riding my Panasonic's sleep function. Instead of falling asleep all through the night after hitting pause, I am waking up to the whole room flashing like I did not hit pause.
> The only work around I have come up with is to change the video input to my tv after hitting pause. But I forget all the time and I am not always sure I am falling asleep.


Your tv falling asleep has nothing to do with which screen saver DIRECTV is using. I suggest turning in the DIRECTV power saver mode...


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

James Long said:


> The point is, if the video industry cannot get the money they need to survive through paid subscriptions they will turn to advertising. It may start with embedding a "must watch" advertisement at the beginning of a stream (which is easily skipped by starting the show then going off for your popcorn and snacks and bathroom trip while the ads play - similar to watching a movie at a theater). It will move to embedding advertisements within the content.
> 
> Television has since it's inception had a format that included commercial breaks. "A word from our sponsor" in the middle of the show is as much a part of television as the early stars the younger generation never knew existed. The challenge now that commercials can be skipped is to get people to watch them. One way is to make the program content compelling enough that people feel the need to watch live. Turn the shows into events where the viewer feels that they are missing out if they are watching more than a few minutes delayed - or with any delay at all. Turn shows into social media events where the show is better with live interaction such as voting and discussing the program with the cast or fellow viewers. Once a programmer has a live audience the trap is set for inserted advertising. If viewers feel that they cannot turn away the advertiser gets the "impressions".
> 
> ...


I fully expect that if Netflix or Amazon start seeing their subscribers drop because the prices get too high, advertising is next, and they will offer a cheaper, ad supported tier. We are already seeing ad placement at the beginning of streams in Netflix (i.e. coming attractions of new shows.) I fully expect that the first change will include ads at the beginning, and eventually, perhaps with most of us not even noticing, there will be ads mid-show as well. And I also expect that eventually, we'll wind up with cable like offerings because SOMEONE will realize it's much easier and cheaper to offer 
"everything" all in one place than jumping from service to service to try and find what you are looking for.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't see subscribers dropping Amazon because they aren't getting Prime because of streaming, they are getting it for the delivery.

For Netflix I think as more and more services come and you get less and less with Netflix other than their own content people will start subscribing a month or two at a time and bingeing what they want, rather than keeping it active 12 months out of the year. Further price increases will only make that more likely.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

armophob said:


> I have been away from the forum for a while. I am glad you are all talking about this. I am enraged that these commercial screen savers on my HR44 are over riding my Panasonic's sleep function. Instead of falling asleep all through the night after hitting pause, I am waking up to the whole room flashing like I did not hit pause.
> The only work around I have come up with is to change the video input to my tv after hitting pause. But I forget all the time and I am not always sure I am falling asleep.


What? Why not just turn your equipment off? As inkahauts says, there is no correlation between the DTV screensaver and your TV going to sleep.


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