# Remote User Interface (RVU) now included in DLNA Interoperability Guidelines



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rv...n-dlna-interoperability-guidelines-2012-03-19

"The Digital Living Network Alliance® (DLNA®) and the RVU Alliance™ today announced that the RVU Alliance Remote User Interface (RUI) has been incorporated into the DLNA Interoperability Guidelines. The relationship between the two organizations underscores the importance of consumer access to service provider content throughout the digital home. These new guidelines allow service providers to export the look and feel of their features to DLNA Certified devices."

...

"RVU systems are already on the market, with service provider DIRECTV having launched its HR34 RVU server in late 2011. At the 2012 International CES event in January, Samsung showcased the protocol in three of their 2011 connected TV models, indicating that RVU support will be in all 2012 connected TV models."

"I applaud DLNA for adopting the RVU protocol into its Interoperability Guidelines," said Romulo Pontual, chief technology officer and executive VP at DIRECTV. "The availability of this light-footprint Remote User Interface technology in the DLNA Guidelines will accelerate DIRECTV's rollout of products capable of delivering our service directly to DLNA Certified devices."


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Is this possibly the beginning of things like the Playstation 3 and BluRay players becoming clients for the HR34 receivers?


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Or your personal computers?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Seems like a return nod for RVU incorporating DLNA by reference into their spec.

Unless DLNA compliance requires RVU at most levels, this seems like a hollow gesture.

This kind of reminds me of DivX certification and their myriad (and confusingly designated) levels of qualification.


Is the HR34 really a system or shouldn't their be widely available and affordable clients?


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> Is the HR34 really a system or shouldn't their be widely available and affordable clients?


It is a system, but to your point you would need clients in order to be extensible. This indicates potential adoptions beyond hardware clients originally highlight by DirecTV previously, at least it does to me. Time will allow us to judge much better though.


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## hahler2 (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm not sure I understand this. Does this mean any DLNA device such as PS3 listed above or even DLNA capable TV's could be clients for the HR34? If so that is WAY cool.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes, I think it does, although I suspect that it's going to go one of two ways: 

-either the client would only have playback functionality (like a DLNA client does now) or,
-if it is full client functionality (like having a receiver built in to your PS3) they'll probably charge for it.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

hahler2 said:


> I'm not sure I understand this. Does this mean any DLNA device such as PS3 listed above or even DLNA capable TV's could be clients for the HR34? If so that is WAY cool.


Kind of, it is really talking about the interoperability of the interface, so you can have a TV that uses the DirecTV interface to view the HR34's content and get the same interface if you had a PC with an RVU interface, can have the very same interface. Nothing new for the user to learn. Similar to how the DirecTV2PC interface looks like the old GUI the STBs had. Now DirecTV2PC needs to be updated with a new interface to "look" like the new GUI. If it had an RVU interface DirecTV2PC could look the very same as say the C30 or C31 clients (or Samsung Smart TV).


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It will be interesting to see how diverse the 3rd party RVU clients become. Windows, iOS, Android, PS3, xBox, whatever.

And how that would work with pricing when the clients aren't for TVs.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> -either the client would only have playback functionality (like a DLNA client does now) or,
> -if it is full client functionality (like having a receiver built in to your PS3) they'll probably charge for it.


RVU doesn't seem like something you can afford to do part way without substantially defeating the concept. At the same time, there are literally thousands of existing DLNA devices out there that lack the hardware facilities to do even a rudimentary implementation of RVU.

There will always be a question of whether or not software extensions and apps can be reasonably certified given the gamut of hardware they may run on.

As always there's that nagging issue that there remains only one announced RVU server platform and that RVU certification seems to elude it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I think this bodes well for rvu to end up in a lot of other products. Just think of the possibilities, one xbox in the house could be played at any tv with rvu built in. One tv in the house has all your equipment hooked up, and its all accessible to every tv in the house, without having to buy multiple products, except for maybe one client for each tv. And all of them can now agree on a standard that is widely being used.

I think the key for rvu is the development of clients that can easily switch between multiple servers.

I am hoping that when we see Directvs client, it will be able to connect to multiple servers.


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## cmich (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm thinking DLNA is going to have to do more with sharing your DVR content in the home while RVU will still be part of sharing the HR34's 5 channels. As it stands right now, the HR34 has 5 channels coming into it with the capability of sending 3 of those channels out to compatible devices like the Samsung Smart TVs (there is also a RVU set top box in the works called the C30 but no release date is set yet). As far as pricing, DLNA compatibility is a free feature that you essentially pay for when you buy a compatible product. I think DirecTV is stepping into this to make themselves more marketable. Being able to see your internet connected DVR on any DLNA device is a pretty good marketing tool for selling the service....and as far as pricing for using RVU, that's the big, and not very well publicized, advantage of the HR34 and RVU compatible TVs: NO RECEIVER LEASE FEE!!!!!! The coax runs from a SWiM splitter like normal to your tv but instead of being plugged into a receiver, it goes through a BB Deca which receives power from the wall and an ethernet cord plugs into the LAN port on the TV. These RVU compatible TVs have wifi built in because the BB Deca takes up the only LAN port.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

cmich said:


> I'm thinking DLNA is going to have to do more with sharing your DVR content in the home while RVU will still be part of sharing the HR34's 5 channels. As it stands right now, the HR34 has 5 channels coming into it with the capability of sending 3 of those channels out to compatible devices like the Samsung Smart TVs (there is also a RVU set top box in the works called the C30 but no release date is set yet). As far as pricing, DLNA compatibility is a free feature that you essentially pay for when you buy a compatible product. I think DirecTV is stepping into this to make themselves more marketable. Being able to see your internet connected DVR on any DLNA device is a pretty good marketing tool for selling the service....and as far as pricing for using RVU, that's the big, and not very well publicized, advantage of the HR34 and RVU compatible TVs: NO RECEIVER LEASE FEE!!!!!! The coax runs from a SWiM splitter like normal to your tv but instead of being plugged into a receiver, it goes through a BB Deca which receives power from the wall and an ethernet cord plugs into the LAN port on the TV. These RVU compatible TVs have wifi built in because the BB Deca takes up the only LAN port.


1. There is a monthly fee for those with the RVU compatible tvs. 
2. The tvs with RVU also don't need wifi because if they are connected to the Deca cloud and the HR34 is connected to the internet they will already be to the internet too.
3. A couple other things in your post are a little off.


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## cmich (Mar 18, 2012)

Scott Kocourek said:


> 1. There is a monthly fee for those with the RVU compatible tvs.
> 2. The tvs with RVU also don't need wifi because if they are connected to the Deca cloud and the HR34 is connected to the internet they will already be to the internet too.
> 3. A couple other things in your post are a little off.


Well, after your "candid" reply I did some calling around and ended up speaking at the nice folks at DirecTV Case Management. The information I based my statements on was from my supervisors but since the whole RVU/HMC system is still very new there is a lot of miss information. You were right about there being a fee. Instead of there being a receiver lease fee, there is a TV license fee which is the same cost, $6. As far as the Deca cloud thing you were talking about, you, I am afraid, are incorrect. The HMC(HR34) is connected to the internet via a WiFi or Broadband Deca to access Pandora, YouTube and the OnDemand content. Using a BBDeca at the RVU compatible TV, the HMC is able to send up to 4 of its 5 lines to different RVU devices(specific Samsung TVs for now) which would include the internet capable features on the HMC. Because the TV requires the LAN port to be used to utilize DTV through the HMC, Samsung built in WiFi so the owner would have access to the other SmartTV features on the TV like Netflix and surfing the internet. If I was wrong in any of my other statements or in what I just said, please let me know. Also, I would like to know your DirecTV credentials....Tech?(HSP or retail?) Call center rep?(and level?) ISS? R&D? Your profile didn't specify as to your knowledge/experience with DirecTV....I assume you are at least a customer.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

cmich said:


> Well, after your "candid" reply I did some calling around and ended up speaking at the nice folks at DirecTV Case Management. The information I based my statements on was from my supervisors but since the whole RVU/HMC system is still very new there is a lot of miss information. You were right about there being a fee. Instead of there being a receiver lease fee, there is a TV license fee which is the same cost, $6. As far as the Deca cloud thing you were talking about, you, I am afraid, are incorrect. The HMC(HR34) is connected to the internet via a WiFi or Broadband Deca to access Pandora, YouTube and the OnDemand content. Using a BBDeca at the RVU compatible TV, the HMC is able to send up to 4 of its 5 lines to different RVU devices(specific Samsung TVs for now) which would include the internet capable features on the HMC. Because the TV requires the LAN port to be used to utilize DTV through the HMC, Samsung built in WiFi so the owner would have access to the other SmartTV features on the TV like Netflix and surfing the internet. If I was wrong in any of my other statements or in what I just said, please let me know. Also, I would like to know your DirecTV credentials....Tech?(HSP or retail?) Call center rep?(and level?) ISS? R&D? Your profile didn't specify as to your knowledge/experience with DirecTV....I assume you are at least a customer.


No need to talk to anyone other then the folks here. 

The HR34 can connect to the home network either via the DECA cloud and bridged to the home network via a Broadband DECA, or via the internal Ethernet port. Either works, we've tried both, and both can be connected simultaneously as long as the HR34 is only connected to the home network via one of the above. You do not want both an HR34 Ethernet connection and a Broadband DECA, unless the Broadband DECA is for a second unrelated DECA cloud.

The RVU clients can communicate with the HR34 either by being within the DECA cloud (via DECA dongle), via the home network (Ethernet and into the DECA cloud via the Broadband DECA), or via the home network (no DECA cloud and an HR34 Ethernet connected only).

The fee is at the HR34 level, and is based on the number of clients.

Once a client is registered with the HR34, and it's powered on and communicating with the HR34, it "owns" one of the HR34 tuners throughout that session, and the UI is projected from the HR34 (server) with full Trickplay capability at the client.

The RVU client can also access other internet functionality through that same connection, whether it be from within the cloud (via DECA dongle) and out through the Broadband DECA, or directly if it's entering the DECA cloud through the Broadband DECA. You do not need an Ethernet connection and WiFi at the client in order to both participate in RVU and access the internet.

Feel free to ask whatever you'd like to know, we've been doing this for a while, and Scott and the mods know this stuff cold also.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"cmich" said:


> Well, after your "candid" reply I did some calling around and ended up speaking at the nice folks at DirecTV Case Management. The information I based my statements on was from my supervisors but since the whole RVU/HMC system is still very new there is a lot of miss information. You were right about there being a fee. Instead of there being a receiver lease fee, there is a TV license fee which is the same cost, $6. As far as the Deca cloud thing you were talking about, you, I am afraid, are incorrect. The HMC(HR34) is connected to the internet via a WiFi or Broadband Deca to access Pandora, YouTube and the OnDemand content. Using a BBDeca at the RVU compatible TV, the HMC is able to send up to 4 of its 5 lines to different RVU devices(specific Samsung TVs for now) which would include the internet capable features on the HMC. Because the TV requires the LAN port to be used to utilize DTV through the HMC, Samsung built in WiFi so the owner would have access to the other SmartTV features on the TV like Netflix and surfing the internet. If I was wrong in any of my other statements or in what I just said, please let me know. Also, I would like to know your DirecTV credentials....Tech?(HSP or retail?) Call center rep?(and level?) ISS? R&D? Your profile didn't specify as to your knowledge/experience with DirecTV....I assume you are at least a customer.


And also to clarify one other thing, the hr34 can only have a total of three rvu or mrv streams in any combination. This always leaves two feeds for the hr34 itself (can be used for dlb, recording, or pip). It can not send four lines out at once.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Sixto" said:


> No need to talk to anyone other then the folks here.
> 
> The HR34 can connect to the home network either via the DECA cloud and bridged to the home network via a Broadband DECA, or via the internal Ethernet port. Either works, we've tried both, and both can be connected simultaneously as long as the HR34 is only connected to the home network via one of the above. You do not want both an HR34 Ethernet connection and a Broadband DECA, unless the Broadband DECA is for a second unrelated DECA cloud.
> 
> ...


You know, I am still wanting to see what happens when someone wants to register eight rvu clients. What will DirecTV charge for that, since you can only have a max three clients active at one time. Will they have a max client fee of three, and after that, you can just add till your hearts content without additional fees?

And what will happen when someday, they have a rvu client that can connect to two hr34s at the same time? Will they charge up to the first six clients per account, and then the other 10 possible will simply be "free"?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> You know, I am still wanting to see what happens when someone wants to register eight rvu clients. What will DirecTV charge for that, since you can only have a max three clients active at one time. Will they have a max client fee of three, and after that, you can just add till your hearts content without additional fees?
> 
> And what will happen when someday, they have a rvu client that can connect to two hr34s at the same time? Will they charge up to the first six clients per account, and then the other 10 possible will simply be "free"?


Yep, good points, still some open items on max configurations and multiple HR34 RVU configurations.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

cmich said:


> Well, after your "candid" reply I did some calling around and ended up speaking at the nice folks at DirecTV Case Management. The information I based my statements on was from my supervisors but since the whole RVU/HMC system is still very new there is a lot of miss information. You were right about there being a fee. Instead of there being a receiver lease fee, there is a TV license fee which is the same cost, $6. As far as the Deca cloud thing you were talking about, you, I am afraid, are incorrect. The HMC(HR34) is connected to the internet via a WiFi or Broadband Deca to access Pandora, YouTube and the OnDemand content. Using a BBDeca at the RVU compatible TV, the HMC is able to send up to 4 of its 5 lines to different RVU devices(specific Samsung TVs for now) which would include the internet capable features on the HMC. Because the TV requires the LAN port to be used to utilize DTV through the HMC, Samsung built in WiFi so the owner would have access to the other SmartTV features on the TV like Netflix and surfing the internet. If I was wrong in any of my other statements or in what I just said, please let me know. Also, I would like to know your DirecTV credentials....Tech?(HSP or retail?) Call center rep?(and level?) ISS? R&D? Your profile didn't specify as to your knowledge/experience with DirecTV....I assume you are at least a customer.


I will answer this, I am at least a customer.

The other issues with your post have been addressed by Sixto and Inkahauts.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

DLNA-Service is on my ONKYO 609 and plays well with my Music content on Win Media 11 & 12 It also Shows all my HDDVR's and content listed (Play list)with a big RED X over all video files 

But it does show the D* media center's and list them as HR20's play list (when they are HR22's)

SO at some point in the future streaming on your home network will be with us by the end of the decade if not sooner.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

cmich said:


> Well, after your "candid" reply I did some calling around and ended up speaking at the nice folks at DirecTV Case Management. The information I based my statements on was from my supervisors but since the whole RVU/HMC system is still very new there is a lot of miss information. You were right about there being a fee. Instead of there being a receiver lease fee, there is a TV license fee which is the same cost, $6. As far as the Deca cloud thing you were talking about, you, I am afraid, are incorrect. The HMC(HR34) is connected to the internet via a WiFi or Broadband Deca to access Pandora, YouTube and the OnDemand content. Using a BBDeca at the RVU compatible TV, the HMC is able to send up to 4 of its 5 lines to different RVU devices(specific Samsung TVs for now) which would include the internet capable features on the HMC. Because the TV requires the LAN port to be used to utilize DTV through the HMC, Samsung built in WiFi so the owner would have access to the other SmartTV features on the TV like Netflix and surfing the internet. If I was wrong in any of my other statements or in what I just said, please let me know. Also, I would like to know your DirecTV credentials....Tech?(HSP or retail?) Call center rep?(and level?) ISS? R&D? Your profile didn't specify as to your knowledge/experience with DirecTV....I assume you are at least a customer.


hmm you should lurk some more.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I think this bodes well for rvu to end up in a lot of other products.


Compare RVU with DIVX.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> Compare RVU with DIVX.


Why compare two totally different things like that? That'd be dumb.


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

I'm not sure this means much at all. DirecTV is not going to just pipe to any RVU client, it'll require one that enforces content protection (DRM) and has been tested to prove it is effective. So in the end, the number of RVU clients that we'll be able to use with any DirecTV receiver will still be relatively small.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Why compare two totally different things like that?


DIVX was available in a lot of different kinds and brands of equipment but absent DIVX content, it turned out to be a bust. RVU will take a long time to get where it is going if they (RVU Alliance) don't start delivering a much broader scope of servers (i.e. ones that the majority of the viewing population can use as opposed to some small percentage of the DIRECTV population).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

flipptyfloppity said:


> I'm not sure this means much at all. DirecTV is not going to just pipe to any RVU client, it'll require one that enforces content protection (DRM) and has been tested to prove it is effective. So in the end, the number of RVU clients that we'll be able to use with any DirecTV receiver will still be relatively small.


Access control is surely an element of RVU or it wouldn't be viable. For DIRECTV's part, they seem to only be interested that the device is on the same LAN subnet.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Exactly, I'm sure any device that want's to get RVU certified will have to pass many DRM tests.

I'm not sure which is holding us up more though, the lack of RVU servers or RVU clients. I'd love to see a blu ray/DVD changer that works as a RVU server. Imagine putting all your blu-rays in a 300 disc blu ray changer and being able to select and watch them on any TV in the house without having to get up. Using real disks and not computer files streamed from a computer or online server. I'm wondering if the downfall of Kaleidescape and Zediva might make the the CE companies hesitate to make one though.

And I guess with the lack of RVU servers there isn't much of a demand for RVU clients. But with as many smart devices that keep getting realeased wouldn't it be worth just doing a bit more to get them RVU certified too. Why didn't Samsung decide to make all of this years Blu-Ray players RVU certified too, or at least maybe a couple models of them. If they would have done that I would be very tempted to buy 4 of them to replace my existing blu ray players and all my DirecTV receivers then just get one HR34 to do all the recording (I would have to deal with only being able to record 5 things at once instead of 6 but that shouldn't be too big of a problem).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> DIVX was available in a lot of different kinds and brands of equipment but absent DIVX content, it turned out to be a bust. RVU will take a long time to get where it is going if they (RVU Alliance) don't start delivering a much broader scope of servers (i.e. ones that the majority of the viewing population can use as opposed to some small percentage of the DIRECTV population).


Again, you are barking in the wrong yard.

Directv will have a rvu client soon/end of year probably. At some point, the normal installation for all customers will be an hr34 and clients, not hr24's and h25s. That time is coming.

RVU is not like Divix at all. Even if no one else where to use it, Directv will, and that will make it relevant. Divix died because no one ever used it. I sold divix players when divix first came out. I know all about what they tried to do, and morph it into. Its not at all the same thing.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> Exactly, I'm sure any device that want's to get RVU certified will have to pass many DRM tests.
> 
> I'm not sure which is holding us up more though, the lack of RVU servers or RVU clients. I'd love to see a blu ray/DVD changer that works as a RVU server. Imagine putting all your blu-rays in a 300 disc blu ray changer and being able to select and watch them on any TV in the house without having to get up. Using real disks and not computer files streamed from a computer or online server. I'm wondering if the downfall of Kaleidescape and Zediva might make the the CE companies hesitate to make one though.
> 
> And I guess with the lack of RVU servers there isn't much of a demand for RVU clients. But with as many smart devices that keep getting realeased wouldn't it be worth just doing a bit more to get them RVU certified too. Why didn't Samsung decide to make all of this years Blu-Ray players RVU certified too, or at least maybe a couple models of them. If they would have done that I would be very tempted to buy 4 of them to replace my existing blu ray players and all my DirecTV receivers then just get one HR34 to do all the recording (I would have to deal with only being able to record 5 things at once instead of 6 but that shouldn't be too big of a problem).


I think RVU will do fine just with DIrectv, but if they do want to get things going in a lot more directions, I think it starts with an individual manufacturer making all their products RVU like you suggest. Have all their smart tvs capable of being rvu clients, and all their dvd/bluray players be rvu servers. The bigger one would be getting sony to do that, so they could also make their playstation an rvu server. Then Xbox.. That would be huge.

But we are so early on in this entire endevour, it will be at least next year before you see anyone really committing to making all their products rvu.. Maybe even two or three years out. They need to see the hr34 work well first, before putting the money into it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Directv will have a rvu client soon/end of year probably.


There's been no movement (FCC/UL approvals, etc) on the C31 that I can find.


> RVU is not like Divix at all. Even if no one else where to use it, Directv will, and that will make it relevant.


DIRECTV delivered the OWLink and look where that went. What makes you think that DIRECTV drives the CE industry?


> Divix died because no one ever used it.


On the one hand you insist that DIVX died because nobody used it but on the other hand, you say that RVU (as an industry-wide standard) will thrive because a miniscule number of DIRECTV customers could (if they wanted to give up their tuners)?

Relative to the number of TV's sold, how many do you think might be used as DIRECTV HMC clients? I'll bet the number is smaller than 1/100,000 (a relatively random but completely defensible number).

If you were a manufacturer, would you seek certification ($$$$$) on such a feature knowing how few might use it?

As a retailer, would you be able to use RVU compliance to entice enough customers into a sale to tell your sales staff about it?

Will RVU ever rise to the level of a logo that appears in retail storefronts if DIRECTV is the only source of servers?


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## Rtm (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm leaning towards no 2012 DLNA enabled bluray player supporting this maybe 2013 well see 2 or 3 that support this & come with proper remote.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> There's been no movement (FCC/UL approvals, etc) on the C31 that I can find.DIRECTV delivered the OWLink and look where that went. What makes you think that DIRECTV drives the CE industry?On the one hand you insist that DIVX died because nobody used it but on the other hand, you say that RVU (as an industry-wide standard) will thrive because a miniscule number of DIRECTV customers could (if they wanted to give up their tuners)?
> 
> Relative to the number of TV's sold, how many do you think might be used as DIRECTV HMC clients? I'll bet the number is smaller than 1/100,000 (a relatively random but completely defensible number).
> 
> ...


I don't care what the FCC says, an rvu client from DirecTV will show up. they don't usually get sent to FCC till they are ready to go. I can only hope they decided to make any client smaller than what we saw from ces, and able to connect to multiple rvu servers at a min, and maybe even do mrv if possible. I almost expect them to make the rvu client the size of a roku or applet tv.

Rvu will be fine if it never goes beyond DirecTV. It's a way to make something happen for DirecTV, just like deca was. Its not meant to be a substitution for entirely different standard being used by most people, like divix was meant to be. At some point, a hmc server and rvu clients will be the majority if not the only kind of install DirecTV does. DirecTV does not require other manufacturers to create rvu devices to make use of rvu if they create their own client. It would be nice, but it's not necessary.

Rvu won't die like divix because it will be used by someone no matter what. Divix died because no one wanted to use it at all. Big difference, and not at all the same situation either. Most technologies like rvu and moca get tweaked or have similar but completely technologies at multiple manufacturers and survive just fine. Heck, dish has a rvu type system now with its Joey hopper setup. It's not identical, but it's the same concept and same end result to the user.


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## tc3400 (Jun 17, 2006)

Is there some way thruogh software update that between samsung and directv that the samsung could go into standby, but stay connected to the 34 or 44 so it doesn't take so long to conect. when the tv is turned on?


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