# External USB drive and Sleeping...



## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

I've attached an external USB drive (WD 1.5TB "Green" drive in an inexpensive black Rosewill enclosure -- looks great) to my 722.

Seems like the USB drive should be sleeping unless a) I'm actively transfering something to it or b) actively watching something stored there. Neither of these things happen all that often -- maybe once or twice a day.

But, everytime I check, it seems like the drive in the USB enclosure is still spinning.

Should the USB drive be sleeping?

Is there anything I can do to force this to happen?

Thanks.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

EHorst99 said:


> I've attached an external USB drive (WD 1.5TB "Green" drive in an inexpensive black Rosewill enclosure -- looks great) to my 722.
> 
> Seems like the USB drive should be sleeping unless a) I'm actively transfering something to it or b) actively watching something stored there. Neither of these things happen all that often -- maybe once or twice a day.
> 
> ...


Sleeping drives are an issue. My WD MyBook's do sleep (spin down). But even though it seems like it's not necessary, I carefully make sure they're "awake" before I tell them to move stuff. Some sleeping drives didn't work with ViP's so there has been some software changes to deal with that.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

With the Seagate 500s many of us used the Seagate Tools to tell it to never sleep because it would not wake up. And I now have a Seagate 1 TB that is a whole 'nother beast when it comes to settings. So, I goes me down to my local Lowes, buy a Westek RF controlled plug-in outlet. The remote lays on the table next to my Harmony. When I want the EHD, I click the clicker and turn it on. When I'm through, I click the clicker and turn it off.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I only turn on my EHD for the 722 on if I'm moving content or watching the content from the EHD. Do you folks all leave them on when you're not doing one or the other?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

finniganps said:


> I only turn on my EHD for the 722 on if I'm moving content or watching the content from the EHD. Do you folks all leave them on when you're not doing one or the other?


I do but it's stupid of me I think. The drive is sleeping, but when I go to my recordings now it spins up. I don't remember it doing that when I got my first drive.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

finniganps said:


> I only turn on my EHD for the 722 on if I'm moving content or watching the content from the EHD. Do you folks all leave them on when you're not doing one or the other?


24x7. Too much work to get up and turn it on and off each time we want to use it. I barely have the patience to wait for the ViP to return from doing its housekeeping after a My Media click. But the crunch crunch sounds are a racket!


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

MrC said:


> 24x7. Too much work to get up and turn it on and off each time we want to use it. ...


That's why I use the Westek remote controlled outlet thingy.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

olguy said:


> That's why I use the Westek remote controlled outlet thingy.


You use *two* remotes? Kinda at cross purposes with your Harmony Remote. If your Harmony is an 890 or one that also handles Z-wave RF devices you could lose the remote for the 'outlet thingy.' :grin:


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

olguy said:


> That's why I use the Westek remote controlled outlet thingy.


And just how sure are you that the ViP is not performing any writes to that mounted file system that is being yanked out from under the OS?

While USB is designed to be plug-and-play, file systems generally are not. They buffer data until the data can be scheduled for disk write, and the write succeeds. There is no guarantee that the file system is being unmounted cleanly when you drop juice to the device. Its a gamble that you'll win most of the time. But when you lose the bet, all file system data can be lost.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> You use *two* remotes? Kinda at cross purposes with your Harmony Remote. If your Harmony is an 890 or one that also handles Z-wave RF devices you could lose the remote for the 'outlet thingy.' :grin:


Yeah, I know. I told the Keeper of the Exchequer I needed a new remote to replace the Harmony One and when she heard the price she told me to live with 2


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

MrC said:


> And just how sure are you that the ViP is not performing any writes to that mounted file system that is being yanked out from under the OS?
> 
> While USB is designed to be plug-and-play, file systems generally are not. They buffer data until the data can be scheduled for disk write, and the write succeeds. There is no guarantee that the file system is being unmounted cleanly when you drop juice to the device. Its a gamble that you'll win most of the time. But when you lose the bet, all file system data can be lost.


It only writes when I tell it to. And it tells me when it's finished. If it's bed time and it's still writing no big deal. I just leave it on.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

olguy said:


> Yeah, I know. I told the Keeper of the Exchequer I needed a new remote to replace the Harmony One and when she heard the price she told me to live with 2


By the way, *DBF!*

/s/ Retired Submariner (See the Polar Bears on the ice near the rudder in the Avatar photo to the left.)


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

olguy said:


> It only writes when I tell it to. And it tells me when it's finished. If it's bed time and it's still writing no big deal. I just leave it on.


It is not clear that the writes have completed and that there is no more file system activity on the mounted file system. User's can't know this from the given UI. Typically, there is periodic activity on a file system. Its a gamble.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

MrC said:


> It is not clear that the writes have completed and that there is no more file system activity on the mounted file system. User's can't know this from the given UI. Typically, there is periodic activity on a file system. Its a gamble.


I usually wear my tin-foil hat when I unplug my EHD. 
I think you're way over-thinking this. I assume you're a computer expert?


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

Kent Taylor said:


> I usually wear my tin-foil hat when I unplug my EHD.
> I think you're way over-thinking this. I assume you're a computer expert?


But foil hats are so uncomfy! 

Noise or energy issues asside, the point I'm trying to make is based on the assumption people *feel* their DVR events are safer, or the drive will last longer, if the drive is turned off/on; I don't believe there is any available data that indicates either of these *feelings* is true in reality.

So investing in yet more technology and gadgets to mitigate some unmeasured risk seems curious to me.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

MrC said:


> It is not clear that the writes have completed and that there is no more file system activity on the mounted file system. User's can't know this from the given UI. Typically, there is periodic activity on a file system. Its a gamble.


So, I open My Media and select a recording to restore to the 622. It tells me about how long it will take and gives me the option to watch live TV. If I select that and just continue watching TV, a pop-up comes up when the recording has been transferred and it tells me the transfer is complete. If I try to access My Media during the transfer, a pop-up tells me a transfer is in progress. The same thing if I am archiving from the 622 to the EHD. The only time I can access My Media is when there are no recordings being moved from one side to the other. So, are you telling me there are still ones and zeros being shuffled around, even though the 622 tells me it's through?

As far as saving my EHD, I may go a week or more between times I use it. Are you telling me to just let it run?


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

olguy said:


> ...So, are you telling me there are still ones and zeros being shuffled around, even though the 622 tells me it's through?
> 
> As far as saving my EHD, I may go a week or more between times I use it. Are you telling me to just let it run?


Yes, ones and zeros *may* still be shuffled. We just don't have the information, as consumers, as to how safe this is. It is unlikely that anything bad will happen; today's file systems are very robust, and tolerant of abuse.

I suppose its all a matter of odds... one of those "safe computing" practices. You've seen that Windows "Safely Remove Hardware" task tray icon, right? You select it, and tell it what device you want to remove. And it comes back a few moments later saying "It is safe to remove the xxx device". The reason for this is to allow the system to clean up (eg. push the data in system memory out to the file system on the disk). It simply can't happen quickly enough when a user turns off the power. Same concept here.

We just don't know how hardened the EHD file system is.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Other than turning off the USB enclosure entirely (which is where this thread has headed), does anyone else have success with getting their drives to sleep while on, but not in use?

If someone's been successful, do you think it's the drive or the enclosure that's preventing the drive from sleeping in my case?

Thanks.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

EHorst99 said:


> Other than turning off the USB enclosure entirely (which is where this thread has headed), does anyone else have success with getting their drives to sleep while on, but not in use?
> 
> If someone's been successful, do you think it's the drive or the enclosure that's preventing the drive from sleeping in my case?
> 
> Thanks.


All my WD Essential drives go into some sort of sleep mode after a while. Meaning that they spin down but the power light is still on. Unplugging the USB cable appears to shut the drive completely off; power light extinguished. I suppose unplugging the cable will save some wear and tear on the power supply but I usually just leave mine on.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I just purchased a Seagate 1.5 TB EHD. It works, I got over 1300 GB available after it was formatted by my 622. The only issue is that once it goes to sleep it won't wake up without pulling the power cord. It also gets weird error messages (weird in the sense that the error condition being reported is false information). The first error message was the same message you are supposed to get when it's brand new (i.e. it needs to be reformatted). I said no to that message and it worked fine after that. The second message was weirder: In said that the EHD was from another account?!? Again clicking no brought back functionality. 

I can hear when the EHD goes to sleep. Nothing I can do will wake it up short of pulling the power cord. Pulling the power cord causes the 622 to act like I pulled the USB cable, reinserting power will cause the 622 to bring up a message "do you want to manage your EHD?" 

I decided to pull the power cable overnight since the case was very warm (but not hot). 

One other thing, transferring too many programs at one time will cause it to crash, again a power cord reboot of the EHD restores functionality.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Michael P said:


> I just purchased a Seagate 1.5 TB EHD. It works, I got over 1300 GB available after it was formatted by my 622. The only issue is that once it goes to sleep it won't wake up without pulling the power cord. It also gets weird error messages (weird in the sense that the error condition being reported is false information). The first error message was the same message you are supposed to get when it's brand new (i.e. it needs to be reformatted). I said no to that message and it worked fine after that. The second message was weirder: In said that the EHD was from another account?!? Again clicking no brought back functionality.
> 
> I can hear when the EHD goes to sleep. Nothing I can do will wake it up short of pulling the power cord. Pulling the power cord causes the 622 to act like I pulled the USB cable, reinserting power will cause the 622 to bring up a message "do you want to manage your EHD?"
> 
> ...


The Westek RF controlled outlet like I'm using would keep you from having to get up and walk over to it And my Seagate 1 TB won't wake up either. Click click the little Westek remote and it's good to go again.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

It seems that Western Digital My Book Essential drives have the best record. Not to be critical of someone's buying, but I'm not sure why folks go off and buy something that's been reported to have issues.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Why not WD My Book Essential? For me, it was basically bang for the buck.

For about $160, I was able to attach 1.5TB storage. The WD My Book's aren't there, yet. Some day, they will be, though.

Still would like my WD Green drive to spin down when not in use....

Thanks.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Here is an anomaly I'm having with my Seagate 1.5TB EHD: Playing a program directly off the EHD works until you hit pause or stop, at which point the picture freezes up. The only way out of this situation is to hit the EPG and watch something else live off the satellite. Going back to the EHD results in an error message. Doing a power cord reboot of the EHD is the only way to restore functionality. Sometimes I get a request to reformat, other times I get an empty list of programs. So far I've been lucky, I eventually get my list of recordings back. 

For playback, would it be safer to restore a recording to the DVR's HD first?


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Michael P said:


> Here is an anomaly I'm having with my Seagate 1.5TB EHD: Playing a program directly off the EHD works until you hit pause or stop, at which point the picture freezes up. The only way out of this situation is to hit the EPG and watch something else live off the satellite. Going back to the EHD results in an error message. Doing a power cord reboot of the EHD is the only way to restore functionality. Sometimes I get a request to reformat, other times I get an empty list of programs. So far I've been lucky, I eventually get my list of recordings back.
> 
> For playback, would it be safer to restore a recording to the DVR's HD first?


Next time that happens, press the _Skip_ forward or back button. It unfreezes my Seagate and continues the recorded program. If it freezes when you press _Stop_, press either _Skip_ button and then FF at 300 to the end of the recorded program. Yeah, it's a sloppy workaround, but it works.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

HDG said:


> Next time that happens, press the _Skip_ forward or back button. It unfreezes my Seagate and continues the recorded program. If it freezes when you press _Stop_, press either _Skip_ button and then FF at 300 to the end of the recorded program. Yeah, it's a sloppy workaround, but it works.


Thanks for the tip. I'lltry that with my 1 TB. I never have the problem with my 500 GB so it was rather frustrating when I had it on the 1 TB.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

olguy said:


> Thanks for the tip. I'lltry that with my 1 TB. I never have the problem with my 500 GB so it was rather frustrating when I had it on the 1 TB.


I understand, olguy. I have a 750GB Seagate and I'm guessing it's about 1 1/2 years old. By current standards, I suppose that's ancient. Anyway, the 1TB drives are reportedly to totally different animal with quirks of their own. I hope it works out for you.


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