# Does NDS make the R15 or not?



## sdesort (May 8, 2006)

In doing some research on the R15, I originally assumed that it was made by NDS, as has been reported by many press releases, and the NDS website itself.

But in reading information posted here, it seems that the R15 is actually made by 2 other manufacturers - Humax and Philips. 

To top it off, when looking at screencaps on the NDS website of the GUI interface of the box, it doesn't appear to look anything like the screens on the R15. 

So, can someone assist me with this? Did D* purchase only a core technology from NDS, then contract Humax and Philips to customize it to their specs?

And who is actually making all of the ongoing firmware changes to these boxes? NDS? D*? Humax/Philips? If it's NDS, are the "880,000+" SKY users having the same problems as D* users?

TIA

Scot


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

From my understanding this is how it is:

Humax and Phlips are the manufactures of the hardware of the units. (Why they are just slightly different.... don't know)

DirecTV employees are the developers of the software for the R15.

The R15 was built from the ground up.
The GUI interface you see is the same GUI interface seen across most of the modern DirecTV recievers (excluding the TiVo series units)

The software is built by DirecTV.

As for the SKY+ boxes, I don't follow them enough to comment on it.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

sdesort said:


> In doing some research on the R15, I originally assumed that it was made by NDS, as has been reported by many press releases, and the NDS website itself.
> 
> But in reading information posted here, it seems that the R15 is actually made by 2 other manufacturers - Humax and Philips.
> 
> ...


Oh Scot, Now you've gone and started it. :lol:

From the software side there are two camps here on the forum. One is that the R15 is a ground up creation of god.....er DTV, and the other being somewhat of a b-tard child of some unholy union.  :lol: :grin: (Just want to make sure everyone sees humor in that).

Anyway, the unholy side of the fence believes that the R15 is indeed based on the SKY Box. Myself, I was convinced when I first pulled an R15 drive and found the volume label on it was "XTV_STR_DSK". Since that point, one of the upgrades changed the volume label to "VOLUMELABE". I'm not as knowledgeable on this as morgantown is, so I'll let him highlight the finer points. However, in my mind the R15 does have some SKY blood running through it. Be it as a son, grandson or something even more horrible. :eek2: {insert Psycho slashing sound effect here}


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Could it be possible they just borrowed the mastering or drive formating software from their sister company?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Could it be possible they just borrowed the mastering or drive formating software from their sister company?


Could be, but then why have these types of articles been floating around so long?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2004-11-29-dvr_x.htm
http://www.echoes.com/greymatter/archives/00000204.html
http://www.nds.com/personal_tv/personal_tv.html

Are false statements being made by someone?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yah got me [shoulder shrug]

All I know is what I have been told...

They may not be "false" statements, but could be statements based on incorrect information.... It has happened before...


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

If what you say is true, Earl, then NDS is making material false statements. It's one thing to say such things in a press release, but this is from their latest 10-Q quarterly report filed with the SEC:



> During the quarter DIRECTV commenced deployment of our DVR technology within their new generation set-top box. Our revenues under our set-top box technology contract with DIRECTV are substantially dependent upon the number of DVR set-top boxes manufactured and deployed. We expect such revenues to increase in the future.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

My understand, from Mogantown's posts, is it's kind of like NDS made the O/S and D* is making the application. I could be wrong.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> If what you say is true, Earl, then NDS is making material false statements. It's one thing to say such things in a press release, but this is from their latest 10-Q quarterly report filed with the SEC:





cabanaboy1977 said:


> My understand, from Mogantown's posts, is it's kind of like NDS made the O/S and D* is making the application. I could be wrong.


Both points taken....

Ultimately... I don't know, nor do any of us... 
It probably is a blend of some sorts.....


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Well, XTV was designed to be branded*. So DirecTV clearly wrote the program guide and most of the user interaction (that generally works fairly well from what I've seen). This is what makes it look and feel like any other DirecTV receiver. It's the stuff behind that which, I'm as certain as I can be without seeing source code, is XTV.


*IMO this may be part of why TiVo has had such a hard time making cable deals and part of why they lost DirecTV. They either can't or won't get the TiVo guy out of the way between the user and the content platform. Well, I guess we'll see if that remains the case when the Comcast TiVo comes online, but I suspect it will be a TiVo that can receive Comcast programming, not a Comcast box that has TiVo.


----------



## sdesort (May 8, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Oh Scot, Now you've gone and started it. :lol:


oh boy... nothing like stiring up trouble on your first post:whatdidid

The public articles about NDS being DTV's next DVR provider is what confused me. And apparently, I'm not the only one confused.

If it is indeed a brand new platform not based on the NDS box, one wonders why DTV hasn't tried to add the DNS boxes to their lineup in light of the problems with the Philips/Humax boxes.

If NDS *does* make some portion of the box (whether it's hardware, OS, or some hybrid), are SKY+ users as frustrated as D* users?

I already have a DSR6000 and wanted to add a second DVR. After lurking around here for some time, I am so hesitant to give D* a 2 year commitment to get a box with such a questionable reputation, and an even more questionable future. I mean, I am sure it will eventually get fixed, but how long will it take? I guess that's the question of the year...

--
Scot


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I think it's a marriage of D* and NDS software with hardware provided by two manufacturers. (I have NO inside info on this)

From the forums I hve read many of the NDS users are more frustrated then the R15 users. Then again they don't seem to get updates like we do and they have had thm longer.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> From the forums I hve read many of the NDS users are more frustrated then the R15 users. Then again they don't seem to get updates like we do and they have had thm longer.


Ah, but they're Brits and and put up with more than we impatient Americans do.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Ah, but they're Brits and and put up with more than we impatient Americans do.


Don't know that any brits I know are more patient then we are here. Maybe the ones I know aren't the norm though. :lol:


----------



## bjflynn04 (Jul 27, 2004)

Heres what I found when I went to the NDS website.

During 2005-2006, XTV will begin powering the PVR offerings of other leading operators including *US-based DIRECTV*, Sky New Zealand, and Scandinavia's VIASAT.

http://www.nds.com/personal_tv/personal_tv.html


----------



## Marcus S (Apr 23, 2002)

Then I wonder who makes this... FAQ indicates SkyHD DVR pricing coming soon and it's MPEG4.

Eye Candy

Forums

News


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Marcus S said:


> Then I wonder who makes this... FAQ indicates SkyHD DVR pricing coming soon and it's MPEG4.
> 
> Eye Candy
> 
> ...


I actually like the looks of that box. Looks very sleek to me. Nice port config on the back also and I definately like that it has the external SATA connector.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

I have not been keeping up around here very well...darn new job . I'll try and be brief.

My take on the machine is that _at the very least_ it began its life as a pure NDS unit (NDS does lots of stuff for DTV, and has done so for very many years). That does not mean that DTV did not do tweaking prior November 05 when the unit hit the street. The DTV/NDS financials are quite specific that NDS is getting paid for these R15's.

I do not think who manufacurers the box is relevant, per say. Both Humax and Phillips are both vendors of NDS and DTV. The important differentation is Earl's information is that DTV built the R15 from the ground up and I respect Earl (and the rest of the mods here too). Unfortunately DTV building the R15 from the ground up just has no supporting information (other than Earl's contacts) and everything else (financials, press releases, etc.) indicates the contrary.

Where I do agree with Earl is that DTV has too much on the line with the R15 and I could not believe they would not take an active interest in working on providing a resolution. NDS has much more experience in the arena (some, including me, think NDS has a long history of building sub-par DVR's). The specifics of how DTV and NDS are working on the software modifications is purely an internal matter with no public record at this point.

The last point I would make is all of the wonderful stuff DTV has promissed (home media center, etc.) has been published a very long time ago by NDS. Looking at their website is much like reading DTV CES announcement, except NDS had the information already on their website months if not a year+, before DTV makes the announcement at CES.

NDS is definately the source of technology for DTV, there is no mistake about that. What DTV does after it recieves it from NDS is anybody's guess.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

morgantown said:


> I have not been keeping up around here very well...darn new job . I'll try and be brief.
> 
> My take on the machine is that _at the very least_ it began its life as a pure NDS unit (NDS does lots of stuff for DTV, and has done so for very many years). That does not mean that DTV did not do tweaking prior November 05 when the unit hit the street. The DTV/NDS financials are quite specific that NDS is getting paid for these R15's.
> 
> ...


I agree that the box most likely started life as an NDS box, it seems it has been changed from that point on. It seems that D* after the initial box design took the dev in house, this could have been for many reason but most of all I would suspect from a control standpoint. It's much easier to control a group of developers sitting in your own building then it is a group sitting in another country.

I very well could be wrong on my point though and if someone knows for a fact what I said isn't correct please let me know.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I agree that the box most likely started life as an NDS box, it seems it has been changed from that point on. It seems that D* after the initial box design took the dev in house, this could have been for many reason but most of all I would suspect from a control standpoint. It's much easier to control a group of developers sitting in your own building then it is a group sitting in another country.
> 
> I very well could be wrong on my point though and if someone knows for a fact what I said isn't correct please let me know.


Couple of items Clint.

#1) Using overseas developers is being used more and more and with proper project management procedures it doesn't really effect the outcome if your staff is in the same office, works from home in the same town, or works overseas. Granted, language barriers can negate everything I just said.
#2) You're making the assumption that the NDS development staff is in another country. I don't know where the NDS staff is, do you?


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> #2) You're making the assumption that the NDS development staff is in another country. I don't know where the NDS staff is, do you?


Why would you think/assume they were anywhere else but the UK? All the telephone and address are UK? No saying there aren't anywhere else but it makes sense. Or at least the majority of them would be.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

I would have to say that UK would be the most likely answer. I have yet to actually see any information at all that is not UK-based, in terms of the NDS corporate structure.

Of course, I have never worked for DTV or NDS (just like the mods and Wolffepack), so what they are really doing "behind the scenes" is not a matter of public record. All of my opinions are also just that, opinions -- but they are based on public records.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

morgantown said:


> I would have to say that UK would be the most likely answer. I have yet to actually see any information at all that is not UK-based, in terms of the NDS corporate structure.
> 
> Of course, I have never worked for DTV or NDS (just like the mods and Wolffepack), so what they are really doing "behind the scenes" is not a matter of public record. All of my opinions are also just that, opinions -- but they are based on public records.


The R15 hardware is manufactured by Humax and Philips. The software was developed by NDS while the User Interface was specified to match the other DIRECTV boxes (d10,H20 etc)


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Couple of items Clint.
> 
> #1) Using overseas developers is being used more and more and with proper project management procedures it doesn't really effect the outcome if your staff is in the same office, works from home in the same town, or works overseas. Granted, language barriers can negate everything I just said.
> #2) You're making the assumption that the NDS development staff is in another country. I don't know where the NDS staff is, do you?


Most every company I have worked with has had issues with the developers being overseas. Just a fact of communication most of the time. Most is not going overseas because the work is better simply because it's cheaper. A lot of the time you get what you pay for. (Feel free to slam me for those comments they are how I feel)

I would think seeing as they are a UK based company their development staff is in the UK. Could be wrong but just sort of makes sense.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Most every company I have worked with has had issues with the developers being overseas. Just a fact of communication most of the time. Most is not going overseas because the work is better simply because it's cheaper. A lot of the time you get what you pay for. (Feel free to slam me for those comments they are how I feel)


I agree. Having development performed overseas is relative. To folks in the UK, they are not overseas. Overseas development because the staff lives overseas is completely different than overseas development to save a buck. You DO get what you pay for.


----------



## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

May be a dumb question, but if the developers were in the UK, could they even get a D* signal to test whether the software actually works?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Nope


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Why would you think/assume they were anywhere else but the UK? All the telephone and address are UK? No saying there aren't anywhere else but it makes sense. Or at least the majority of them would be.


Well, well, well. NDS opened up an office in Costa Mesa, CA on May 11, 2006. Costa Mesa and El Segundo (DTV's HQ location) are like 30-45 miles apart, or something like that? I guess that could solve many logistical problems when they work with DTV.

http://homepage.mac.com/thebecker/iblog/B533212817/C2084452993/E20060512212039/index.html
(thanks for the link to the blog Craiger).


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

morgantown said:


> Well, well, well. NDS opened up an office in Costa Mesa, CA on May 11, 2006. Costa Mesa and El Segundo (DTV's HQ location) are like 30-45 miles apart, or something like that? I guess that could solve many logistical problems when they work with DTV.
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/thebecker/iblog/B533212817/C2084452993/E20060512212039/index.html
> (thanks for the link to the blog Craiger).


Thanks for the info Morgantown.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

My goodness you people make this all sound like super sneaky spy vs. spy thing. So what the parent company opens and office here and moves the D*developers for the DVR's to that office. The issue here is?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

NDS isn't the parent company. Rupert is. NDS and DTV are siblings. Each are told by Daddy Dearest they must produce, grow and meet forecasts. As all sibling relationships go, they'll dig and fight and stab each other in the back just as they will anyone else. I'm sure DTV wants Daddy to believe they're handling the DVR space just fine while NDS is telling Daddy "Hey, we told you that DTV couldn't do it, so now we've setup an office next to them. Daddy, let us help fix all your problems with DTV. You can trust us Daddy.".

Meanwhile DTV is telling Daddy "Daaaaaadd. NDS is playing in my sandbox. Tell him not to do that. You said this was my sandbox!!! Why do I have to share?".

Two divisions within the same corporation, performing the same task (DVR development) will create more Spy vs Spy scenarios than you can possibly imagine.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> NDS isn't the parent company. Rupert is. NDS and DTV are siblings. Each are told by Daddy Dearest they must produce, grow and meet forecasts. As all sibling relationships go, they'll dig and fight and stab each other in the back just as they will anyone else. I'm sure DTV wants Daddy to believe they're handling the DVR space just fine while NDS is telling Daddy "Hey, we told you that DTV couldn't do it, so now we've setup an office next to them. Daddy, let us help fix all your problems with DTV. You can trust us Daddy.".
> 
> Meanwhile DTV is telling Daddy "Daaaaaadd. NDS is playing in my sandbox. Tell him not to do that. You said this was my sandbox!!! Why do I have to share?".
> 
> Two divisions within the same corporation, performing the same task (DVR development) will create more Spy vs Spy scenarios than you can possibly imagine.


Yes, but it was originally NDS's technology and NDS is the older of the two, so I think "Daddy" should give NDS a chance to fix what they started.

And on a side note, while I was making sure NDS was older than DirecTV on Wikipedia, I found this statement.



> XTV is more commonly identifiable as...
> ...the popular DirecTV+ system


Popular? Maybe more people have (and like) the NDS DVR then we thought, or maybe the author of this article is delusional.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> My goodness you people make this all sound like super sneaky spy vs. spy thing. So what the parent company opens and office here and moves the D*developers for the DVR's to that office. The issue here is?


The issue is that there are two public companies making contradictory material statements, and we just want to know, if even for curiosity's sake, which is true.

Actually, the only company that has spoken officially on it is NDS, saying they made the DVR. Unofficially there's some DirecTV programmer Earl knows who claims they did it themselves.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> The issue is that there are two public companies making contradictory material statements, and we just want to know, if even for curiosity's sake, which is true.
> 
> Actually, the only company that has spoken officially on it is NDS, saying they made the DVR. Unofficially there's some DirecTV programmer Earl knows who claims they did it themselves.


I never said it was a "programmer" 

Either way.... Maybe things have changed... I had that particular conversation pretty much back at the start of our relationship.

During our next phone conversation, I will try to get some "updated" information.

But ultimately... does it really matter who is writing the software?


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I never said it was a "programmer"


I know -- I minimized his duties for effect 



> But ultimately... does it really matter who is writing the software?


It wouldn't if it worked.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> NDS isn't the parent company. Rupert is. NDS and DTV are siblings. Each are told by Daddy Dearest they must produce, grow and meet forecasts. As all sibling relationships go, they'll dig and fight and stab each other in the back just as they will anyone else. I'm sure DTV wants Daddy to believe they're handling the DVR space just fine while NDS is telling Daddy "Hey, we told you that DTV couldn't do it, so now we've setup an office next to them. Daddy, let us help fix all your problems with DTV. You can trust us Daddy.".
> 
> Meanwhile DTV is telling Daddy "Daaaaaadd. NDS is playing in my sandbox. Tell him not to do that. You said this was my sandbox!!! Why do I have to share?".
> 
> Two divisions within the same corporation, performing the same task (DVR development) will create more Spy vs Spy scenarios than you can possibly imagine.


I never said NDS was the parent company. I said their parent company opens an office here.


----------



## alunj (Jun 5, 2006)

Well I am in the Uk and have the pleasure of owning a SKY+ and the new HD MPEG4 box 
(I also have two tivos but thats another story)
AFAIK the R15 and the SKY+ share a lot, most of the UI looks similar but you guys seem to have more fuctionality than us. We can only look at an AZ listing for the next 48hrs and cannot do any kind of search. We cant prioritise series links and we cant do 30 sec skip. Also they seem to stop you guys from upgrading the HD. Here we just drop in a formated HD and away it goes.
So far I think one person has tried the HD box and that worked too altho they reserve 160GB for future VOD.
The HD box is based on the broadcom chipset (Mips R5000 etc) and has exactly the same UI as the SKY+ (Yuk)
If there is anything you want to know just yell.

My understanding of all the above thread is that Mr M's group owns both D* SKY and NDS and they are starting to share the XTV platform around. We had Tivo here first before mr M had SKY+ once he had that he killed TiVo and now you cannot buy a new unit in the Uk althogh we still have service


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

alunj said:


> Well I am in the Uk and have the pleasure of owning a SKY+ and the new HD MPEG4 box
> (I also have two tivos but thats another story)
> AFAIK the R15 and the SKY+ share a lot, most of the UI looks similar but you guys seem to have more fuctionality than us. We can only look at an AZ listing for the next 48hrs and cannot do any kind of search. We cant prioritise series links and we cant do 30 sec skip. Also they seem to stop you guys from upgrading the HD. Here we just drop in a formated HD and away it goes.
> So far I think one person has tried the HD box and that worked too altho they reserve 160GB for future VOD.
> ...


NDS made your guide with Sky, so you get the joyous Sky Guide! Sounds wonderful, and DirecTV is scary protective about it's content.

My goodness, your story sounds like ours (although we can still buy DirecTivo units and activate them). I for one now have the pleasure of knowing that the largest satellite provider in America is no worse then the largest TV provider in the U.K.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

By the way, the other reason it matters: 

It would be interesting (in a "past performance indicating future results" sort of way) to know whether the R15 is a satellite TV provider's first attempt after about a year or a software company's fifth (?) attempt after about six years. Even if it's only based on the latter I think that's bad news, IMO.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

walters said:


> By the way, the other reason it matters:
> 
> It would be interesting (in a "past performance indicating future results" sort of way) to know whether the R15 is a satellite TV provider's first attempt after about a year or a software company's fifth (?) attempt after about six years. Even if it's only based on the latter I think that's bad news, IMO.


Fifth? Only 3 DVRs use the XTV technology and that's DirecTV's, Sky's, and ViaSat's. They all have "+" plus DVRs. And I don't think the technology is 6 years old. Sky was the first company to have a "+" DVR and that didn't come out until recently.

Yes, NDS is still learning about DVR tech.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

From their website:



> NDS has already achieved significant success and industry recognition in deploying XTV-*the first fully integrated PVR*-on Sky digital's platform. According to BSkyB, as of June 2005, more than 880,000 subscribers enjoy Sky+ PVR services. XTV is also successfully deployed on the *Sky Latin America* platform in Brazil & Mexico, Australia's *FOXTEL*, and both *HOT* and *YES* in Israel. During 2005-2006, XTV will begin powering the PVR offerings of other leading operators including US-based DIRECTV, Sky New Zealand, and Scandinavia's VIASAT.


Now, the "first fully integrated PVR" would make it older than the DTiVo (I've had my DSR 6000 since 2000). Usenet posts from that period challenge the claim of "first" (since there are people talking about owning a DSR6000 and other people talking about seeing an XTV prototype around the same time), but close enough. They worked on it for some time before it came out, so it's at least six years old.

The other bolded sections are four platforms, other than DirecTV, that allegedly use XTV.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

walters said:


> From their website:
> 
> Now, the "first fully integrated PVR" would make it older than the DTiVo (I've had my DSR 6000 since 2000). Usenet posts from that period challenge the claim of "first" (since there are people talking about owning a DSR6000 and other people talking about seeing an XTV prototype around the same time), but close enough. They worked on it for some time before it came out, so it's at least six years old.
> 
> The other bolded sections are four platforms, other than DirecTV, that allegedly use XTV.


So that makes it BSkyB, Sky LA, DirecTV LA, ViaSat, Hot, Yes, and Foxtel that use these boxes, including DirecTV.

ATLEAST SIX YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT & EIGHT FREAKIN' PROVIDERS USE THESE BOXES AND THEY STILL CAN'T GET IT RIGHT!!!

That's a revelation, I don't think I like NDS anymore.

And on a side note, the people with Foxtel iQ box (it's like the EXACT same as the Sky+ box from what I've seen in demos) seem to LOVE it. They don't mind all of the glitches and hiccups, and when they have to reboot, they get over. I know one forum user that treats it like it's no big deal and that it something that comes with new technology. It's too bad that they have never experienced TiVo, then they would be as bitter as us.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

jonaswan2 said:


> ATLEAST SIX YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT & EIGHT FREAKIN' PROVIDERS USE THESE BOXES AND THEY STILL CAN'T GET IT RIGHT!!!


Who says they "can't get it right"? With that many implementations all having these "problems", it must be the way it was designed. If it works the way they designed it, then it's right.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> Well I am in the Uk and have the pleasure of owning a SKY+ and the new HD MPEG4 box
> (I also have two tivos but thats another story)
> AFAIK the R15 and the SKY+ share a lot, most of the UI looks similar but you guys seem to have more fuctionality than us. We can only look at an AZ listing for the next 48hrs and cannot do any kind of search. We cant prioritise series links and we cant do 30 sec skip. Also they seem to stop you guys from upgrading the HD. Here we just drop in a formated HD and away it goes.
> So far I think one person has tried the HD box and that worked too altho they reserve 160GB for future VOD.
> ...


Alunj, Does your sky+ box have a limit to SL's or in the Todo list?


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> Well I am in the Uk and have the pleasure of owning a SKY+ and the new HD MPEG4 box
> (I also have two tivos but thats another story)
> AFAIK the R15 and the SKY+ share a lot, most of the UI looks similar but you guys seem to have more fuctionality than us. We can only look at an AZ listing for the next 48hrs and cannot do any kind of search. We cant prioritise series links and we cant do 30 sec skip. Also they seem to stop you guys from upgrading the HD. Here we just drop in a formated HD and away it goes.
> So far I think one person has tried the HD box and that worked too altho they reserve 160GB for future VOD.
> ...


Welcome aboard!

Surely lots of folks will have questions for you. Thanks for making your way over to this site.

The represenations that I have read over at DigitalSpy Forums still indicate more than just a "fair" amount of troubles with Series Links (SL's). How would you rate the dependability of SL's on your Sky+ DVR in general, as well as compared to the TiVo?

Did Sky+ ever have an integrated Sky+ TiVo? I was under the impression they did not and were linked by an infrared controler. We were lucky enough to have integrated dual tuner TiVos with the DirecTV tuner(s) built in...commonly called DirecTiVo's.

Thanks for any input you are able to offer! It is very good to have a Sky+ user on board...


----------



## alunj (Jun 5, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Alunj, Does your sky+ box have a limit to SL's or in the Todo list?


Yes as far as I know its about 50  I will see if there is any difference between the HD and SD unit


----------



## alunj (Jun 5, 2006)

morgantown said:


> Welcome aboard!
> 
> The represenations that I have read over at DigitalSpy Forums still indicate more than just a "fair" amount of troubles with Series Links (SL's). How would you rate the dependability of SL's on your Sky+ DVR in general, as well as compared to the TiVo?
> 
> ...


Hi And thanks.
Well the SL seem to be dependent on how good the meta data thats injected at broadcast by the various companies. Its not clear exactly who is responsible for this info as when something goes wrong SKY blame for example the BBC etc etc.
A real example from this weekend. I have SL for Dr WHO  but for some reason it didnt pick up the fact there is one on next week. The Program is definatly in the guide, I wonder how and when it scans for the SL info in the EPG stream , I think if that happens while both tuners are recording, bingo, lost. I also know that SL cannot cope if the Program does not re appear in the guide for a period of time. No one knows exacltly how long ! (we will see what happens when the world cup is on as there are lots of schedulig changes )
In comparison to the tivo the guide is possible more accurate BUT the SL functionality doesnt compare at all with TiVo Season passes. We have some going back 6 years that still work when a new season starts of something  (last time I looked I have 60+ SP and wishlists on my Tivo) Also many programs that are series on the Sky+ /HD dont have SL 

The answer to you other question is no they never had an integrated box (more is the pity) You are correct that we have to use IR blasters. The good thing tho is the UK seris 1 TiVo can grab RBG directly so the recording quality is very good.

A


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds like an NDS reciever to me. Again, (unfortunately) DirecTV seems no worse than BSkyB when it comes to their DVRs.

Oh NDS, why do you torment us so with your "features."


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> Yes as far as I know its about 50  I will see if there is any difference between the HD and SD unit


 well I guess that puts a bad out look for that getting increased.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

alunj said:


> Yes as far as I know its about 50  I will see if there is any difference between the HD and SD unit


Do you find the stability of the unit decreases as the number of SLs increase? I've seen stability problems when having more than 20 SLs and the R15 really has problems up around 35-40. Keeping the unit below 20 seems to help eliminate the random freezes and resets required.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> I also know that SL cannot cope if the Program does not re appear in the guide for a period of time. No one knows exacltly how long ! (we will see what happens when the world cup is on as there are lots of schedulig changes )


I've wondered about this too. Does your sky box let you change the recording options for a SL if there isn't a showing in the next two weeks? Our won't let you in to make any changes if there is not a episode in the todo list (doesn't matter that it maybe on 3 days from now but if it's not in the todo list you can't edit it) making me wonder about the stablity between season breaks between shows.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Keeping the unit below 20 seems to help eliminate the random freezes and resets required.


Do you still find with 20 SL or less that going into the todo list or prioritizer gives it a greater chance to lockup? This is direct at Wolffpack and Alunj. I know I see greater lockups when I go there but I have ~38 SL each on two of my units. Alunji thanks for all you input and thanks for coming and looking at the site.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Do you still find with 20 SL or less that going into the todo list or prioritizer gives it a greater chance to lockup? This is direct at Wolffpack and Alunj. I know I see greater lockups when I go there but I have ~38 SL each on two of my units. Alunji thanks for all you input and thanks for coming and looking at the site.


I've noticed overall better stability when keeping SLs below 20. While crap still happens, it's alot less crappy. When I had 30-40 SLs and tried any maintenance I could get 1 maybe 2 changes done before it slipped into the abyss.

OTOH, the total MYVOD usage also seems to effect stability. Somewhere over 75% used starts causing problems.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> OTOH, the total MYVOD usage also seems to effect stability. Somewhere over 75% used starts causing problems.


Thanks for the warning. One of mine is getting near that mark.


----------



## alunj (Jun 5, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I've wondered about this too. Does your sky box let you change the recording options for a SL if there isn't a showing in the next two weeks? Our won't let you in to make any changes if there is not a episode in the todo list (doesn't matter that it maybe on 3 days from now but if it's not in the todo list you can't edit it) making me wonder about the stablity between season breaks between shows.


AFAIK No If there is no upgoming showing in the EPG window (7 days here) then the SL is invisible. On the SKY+ SL will NOT be kept between seasons  e.g. if you have an SL for simpsons series 13 it wont record series 14

In the original release (in 2001) the SL would span a max of 7 days, if a prog wasnt on again then the SL would die.


----------



## alunj (Jun 5, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Do you still find with 20 SL or less that going into the todo list or prioritizer gives it a greater chance to lockup? This is direct at Wolffpack and Alunj. I know I see greater lockups when I go there but I have ~38 SL each on two of my units. Alunji thanks for all you input and thanks for coming and looking at the site.


Dont forget we dont have a prioritizer. But I have allready had lockups onthe HD unit.  
As far as the priority of recording The only clue sky give is this cut from their site as i cant post links !!
------------------
The booking clash function only works for the first episode that the customer sets up in their Planner (eg the Monday Eastenders in this example), it does not work out all the future episodes that the box itself puts into the Planner.

This can result in 'clashed' programmes, especially if you have set up lots of Series Links for daily programmes.

If you have a particular series or programme you are really keen to ensure is recorded, press the 'keep' button on the next to be recorded and Sky+ will prioritise that recording in the event of a clash.
-------------------


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> AFAIK No If there is no upgoming showing in the EPG window (7 days here) then the SL is invisible. On the SKY+ SL will NOT be kept between seasons  e.g. if you have an SL for simpsons series 13 it wont record series 14
> 
> In the original release (in 2001) the SL would span a max of 7 days, if a prog wasnt on again then the SL would die.


That's just dumb. I have only had two other DVR's (UTV and Tivo) but I can't imagine that any other DVR does it in this manner. I wonder why NDS thinks we don't care about our shows if there aren't on? We shouldn't have to wait till the show is on to change opitons.

One thing that I like about the UTV is that it was even smart enought to pickup Big Brother 6 and change it to Big Brother 7 then next season.

Again, thanks for the insight.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

alunj said:


> Dont forget we dont have a prioritizer. But I have allready had lockups onthe HD unit.


Weird, same but different.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

It is great to have some input from a Sky+ user as the NDS Sky+ DVR seems to be more common than not with the R15.

I guess that gives some basis to what some of us have been saying for quite some time.... The R15 has little to do with DTV per say, it has more to do with NDS. Go figure, the software in the box is more important than the label on it. 

Certainly not the end of that story, but nice to get the input from alunj all the same. 

BTW, after a "few" posts you should be able to provide links alunj... If not now, then very soon.


----------

