# The Joke that is Directv OD



## davidpoe (Jan 18, 2008)

Recently was upgraded to a HR21-700. Love all the HD channels. Hooked up On Demand. My set is a wireless hub, output to a switch, then connections to the HR21 and my xbox 360. Every thing connects fine, but performance stinks. Thought it was the switch so I went directly from the hub to the xbox 360, no problems. Went from switch to 360, no hr 21 connect, no problems. Hook up the hr21 in any configuration and performance degrades. As soon as the hr 21 is hooked up, the network lights on the switch and hub go crazy!!! What is this box doing over the network? I'm not trying to access an on demand program. That's a whole other story. One hour to download a 30 minute program, where you can download a show off of xbox live in a quarter of the time. Long story short, it is not my network. I've since disconnected the hr21 from my network and all is fine again. Which really doesn't matter because what Directv offers thru OnDemand is nominal at best. I am beginning to agree with others who feel that Directv pushed on demand to say they have the feature, with no regard of its quality. Sorry for the rant.
Dave in NJ


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## convem24 (Mar 11, 2007)

davidpoe said:


> Recently was upgraded to a HR21-700. Love all the HD channels. Hooked up On Demand. My set is a wireless hub, output to a switch, then connections to the HR21 and my xbox 360. Every thing connects fine, but performance stinks. Thought it was the switch so I went directly from the hub to the xbox 360, no problems. Went from switch to 360, no hr 21 connect, no problems. Hook up the hr21 in any configuration and performance degrades. As soon as the hr 21 is hooked up, the network lights on the switch and hub go crazy!!! What is this box doing over the network? I'm not trying to access an on demand program. That's a whole other story. One hour to download a 30 minute program, where you can download a show off of xbox live in a quarter of the time. Long story short, it is not my network. I've since disconnected the hr21 from my network and all is fine again. Which really doesn't matter because what Directv offers thru OnDemand is nominal at best. I am beginning to agree with others who feel that Directv pushed on demand to say they have the feature, with no regard of its quality. Sorry for the rant.
> Dave in NJ


A couple things David, first when you initially hook up an HD-DVR to your internet it takes a day or so to fully download the guide information (or equivilent) for the On Demand feature. Secondly the time it takes to download a show depends on the speed of your internet connection. If the connection speed is 1 mbps or slower you will have a problem. I have 6 mbps internet and it takes about 30 minutes to dowload a 30 minute show. It really depends on your internet connection. After the initial information download for the guide it should not take as much of your internet connection speed.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

When first connected and every so often afterwards it will look for other devices on the network for media sharing, get its ip info, get DOD info from Directv, etc.

Lots to do, and most will not take much network traffic at all.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

convem24 said:


> A couple things David, first when you initially hook up an HD-DVR to your internet it takes a day or so to fully download the guide information (or equivilent) for the On Demand feature. Secondly the time it takes to download a show depends on the speed of your internet connection. If the connection speed is 1 mbps or slower you will have a problem. I have 6 mbps internet and it takes about 30 minutes to dowload a 30 minute show. It really depends on your internet connection. After the initial information download for the guide it should not take as much of your internet connection speed.


DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

davidpoe said:


> One hour to download a 30 minute program,


I don't really use DOD, but when it was first rolled out, I downloaded a few things to test it. The first movie I downloaded, I started watching almost immediately and was able to watch it all the way through. I don't know how long it took, but it took less than 2 hours.

They also had a couple of HD offerings in the beginning. I downloaded one of them and started watching 20 minutes in. Again, I was able to watch it without stopping.

It shouldn't take 60 minutes to download a 30 minute program if you have a good internet connection.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


30 minutes for a 30 minute show is ON demand, you can watch it instantly, you don't have to wait fot it to finish downloading. I have a 6 mps DSL and most SD I dowload at almost 2 to 1. HD works fine if I give the show about a 10 minute headstart. My father has a 3.0 connection and he can watch SD with no delay.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


A six meg down connection should easily allow you to watch the show in real time. You would not have to wait thirty minutes and then watch.

I have a 10 meg down connection, which isn't even closed to being maxed out when I use DOD, and I have no trouble watching in real time - the show is downloaded at about a 1.5x viewing speed rate.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


If it takes 30 minutes to download a 30 minute show it is instant watch nearly. You can watch while it downloads.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

raott said:


> A six meg down connection should easily allow you to watch the show in real time. You would not have to wait thirty minutes and then watch.
> 
> I have a 10 meg down connection, which isn't even closed to being maxed out when I use DOD, and I have no trouble watching in real time - the show is downloaded at about a 1.5x viewing speed rate.


I don't have a 6 mbps connection, only 1.5 mbps. At that rate DOD is a joke. I'm not sure why a 6 mbps connection would have an issue, but for me DOD is unusable for SD, let alone HD.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


Umm... if it takes 30 minutes to get a 30 minute show...

What isn't OnDemand about it?

You can start watching the program with a few minutes...

So unless you just want to jump to the end... what is the problem?
There are no commercials to skip (usually after the first one at the beginning)

So what is the definition of "On Demand"...
Do you not get the program when you tell it to download? Instead of waiting for a channel to broadcast it?

But if you have a slower net connection... then yes.. you are going to have longer download times..
but at the end of the day... if you don't want to wait... don't use the feature and pull the network connection


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Umm... if it takes 30 minutes to get a 30 minute show...
> 
> What isn't OnDemand about it?
> 
> ...


To me, On Demand means watch immediately, not wait for an indeterminate number of minutes to view a program. Viewing alternative content not provided by other channels is one definition of "On Demand"; mine is the ability to view what I want immediately (like Comcast). Definitions vary of course...


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

66stang351 said:


> If it takes 30 minutes to download a 30 minute show it is instant watch nearly. You can watch while it downloads.


Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. It takes 30 minutes to begin to watch the show (when the progress bar turns green).


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> To me, On Demand means watch immediately


And that's how mine works. If yours doesn't work that way, get a better internet provider.

What do you want D* to do? Have the show miraculously appear even if you have a dial up connection?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> To me, On Demand means watch immediately, not wait for an indeterminate number of minutes to view a program. Viewing alternative content not provided by other channels is one definition of "On Demand"; mine is the ability to view what I want immediately (like Comcast). Definitions vary of course...


Well... I guess by your definition... it will never be "OnDemand"...
Might as well unplug that network cable.

So at least you now know DirecTV's definition of "On Demand"

And that is the problem of comming out with a "feature" second... a lot of users assume it is going to be identical to another companies feature that shares a similar name.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> And that's how mine works. If yours doesn't work that way, get a better internet provider.
> 
> What do you want D* to do? Have the show miraculously appear even if you have a dial up connection?


So only the customers with the fastest internet providers are allowed to access new features? How does that reach out to the "Mom and Pop" or "Camry Driver" portion of the customer base? I don't expect miracles, just common sense.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> So only the customers with the fastest internet providers are allowed to access new features? How does that reach out to the "Mom and Pop" or "Camry Driver" portion of the customer base? I don't expect miracles, just common sense.


I don't have the fastest internet. In fact, I have the slowest connection Verizon offers.

I just selected Aeon Flux from the DOD menu. I immediately went to the play list and started watching it. I'm 6 minutes into the movie and the download is at 10%. It will be done downloading this 2 hour movie in 1 hour.

Again, how would you rather they do it???


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> So only the customers with the fastest internet providers are allowed to access new features? How does that reach out to the "Mom and Pop" or "Camry Driver" portion of the customer base? I don't expect miracles, just common sense.


DIRECTV is not pursuing "Mom and Pop" They are pursuing high value/low risk subscribers. The type that have lots of money to spend and are willing to spend it on frivolous things like high speed internet and satellite tv.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well... I guess by your definition... it will never be "OnDemand"...
> Might as well unplug that network cable.
> 
> So at least you now know DirecTV's definition of "On Demand"
> ...


If the second coming of a feature is inferior to the baseline, wisdom should intervene along with modesty about its capabilities. Call it "DirecTV Personalized Content" or something else. Heck, I'm not in Marketing, but choosing the identical name as the forbearer is weak.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And who says that there won't be sat delivered DOD in HD coming after the launch of D11...I believe there is a reason Directv is still calling it Beta...


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I don't have the fastest internet. In fact, I have the slowest connection Verizon offers.
> 
> I just selected Aeon Flux from the DOD menu. I immediately went to the play list and started watching it. I'm 6 minutes into the movie and the download is at 10%. It will be done downloading this 2 hour movie in 1 hour.
> 
> Again, how would you rather they do it???


I can't do what you are describing; the playback would cease after 3 minutes.

There probably isn't another solution, but Directv should realize that only a few of their customers have:

1) An internet connection via a router and 2) a high enough connection speed to take advantage of the "On Demand" feature. My kids for instance are not going to wait for 30 minutes to watch something they find. They are inpatient.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> And who says that there won't be sat delivered DOD in HD coming after the launch of D11...I believe there is a reason Directv is still calling it Beta...


I would love this if it were true. Please make it so.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> I can't do what you are describing; the playback would cease after 3 minutes.
> 
> There probably isn't another solution, but Directv should realize that only a few of their customers have:
> 
> 1) An internet connection via a router and 2) a high enough connection speed to take advantage of the "On Demand" feature. My kids for instance are not going to wait for 30 minutes to watch something they find. They are inpatient.


They also realize that not everyone has HD capabilities, but that shouldn't stop them from improving the experience of those that do.

DOD requires a good internet connection. Yep, not everyone has it, but A LOT of people do and 5 years from now almost everyone will. Not everyone can take advantage of everything D* has to offer.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> I can't do what you are describing; the playback would cease after 3 minutes.
> 
> There probably isn't another solution, but Directv should realize that only a few of their customers have:
> 
> 1) An internet connection via a router and 2) a high enough connection speed to take advantage of the "On Demand" feature. My kids for instance are not going to wait for 30 minutes to watch something they find. They are inpatient.


"I think" your major issue is the 1.5 Mb/s connection. With a 3 Mb/s SD programing is virtually "live", and anything faster only takes the time to get out of the guide to watch it.
With a 1.5 Mb/s connection it's more "video on request".
Just like anything, it's not going to be the same for everyone. If you can use it fine, if not, no big deal, since it's not costing you anything either way.


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## davidpoe (Jan 18, 2008)

I didn't even get into the fact that half of the downloads I tried failed mid way through. Why does the xbox 360 not have these same problems? Because Dtv's on demand is lame and there are clearly underlying issues with the software it runs on. This wasn't a 2 day experiment. I gave it over two weeks. 

Also, why does the box keep talking to the network. IT NEVER STOPS. Again, I compare it to xbox live. I turn on the box, it connects (I see the network lights flash), then it is quiet until I download something or play online multiplayer. With the hr21 hooked up it blinked constantly even when I wasn't downloading anything. It effected xbox multiplayer performance, that has not been a problem since I decided to disconnect the HR 21. I have the fastest verizon dsl available in my area, 5 mb service. FIOS is expected by summer.

Dtv should be paying its users part of their internet fee. Don't get me wrong, as long as Dtv has exclusive NFL Sunday ticket, I'm not going anywhere, but OD was poorly rolled out in my opinion.


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## Embedded_Journalist (Mar 4, 2008)

> > "I think" your major issue is the 1.5 Mb/s connection. With a 3 Mb/s SD programing is virtually "live", and anything faster only takes the time to get out of the guide to watch it.
> > With a 1.5 Mb/s connection it's more "video on request".
> > Just like anything, it's not going to be the same for everyone. If you can use it fine, if not, no big deal, since it's not costing you anything either way.


Hmmm now you hav me wondering if he 100ft Cat5 cable should go under the house to connect my DTV HDDVR to my router for on Demand Service. I only have a Sprint BroadBand Wireless card that plugs into a special Kyocera router to give me lower end high-speed internet connection that averages only about 1.2 to 1.4 mbps. Oh well I might as well give it a try since the 100ft cable would cost me as much to send back and take a re-stocking fee charge than to just go forward regardless.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> They also realize that not everyone has HD capabilities, but that shouldn't stop them from improving the experience of those that do.
> 
> DOD requires a good internet connection. Yep, not everyone has it, but A LOT of people do and 5 years from now almost everyone will. Not everyone can take advantage of everything D* has to offer.


Then make it a line item that I'm not getting charged for. Don't give me this 'its free' crap. Everyone who gets a bill is subsidizing a service that currently few people can use. D* realizes that the service is so sub par for most users that they themselves aren't even willing to outright charge for it because it would be a customer relations nightmare.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Patience. They are still tweaking and working things out. As far as making it a line item, you could argue the same thing about any channel you don't like or any service you don't use. I don't watch a lot of sports, please back that out of my package. Shopping channels? Ditch 'em. But that's not how it works. DIRECTV as a whole works by providing packages of programs that many people find appealing.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

sunking, yes, you are paying for DirecTV to develop new technology, one that they say might dominate their service in a dozen years. What do you expect?

Me, I want On Demand to be perfect RIGHT NOW, no matter my connection speed.

Oh wait, I don't use On Demand because I'm waiting for them to get the bugs worked out of their admitted Beta version and the HD offerings are minimal, if at all. Never mind.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> If the second coming of a feature is inferior to the baseline, wisdom should intervene along with modesty about its capabilities. Call it "DirecTV Personalized Content" or something else. Heck, I'm not in Marketing, but choosing the identical name as the forbearer is weak.


So I guess all the other companies that call their VoD ... On Demand... are wrong too.... Like NBC/ABC on their webcast downloads..

I mean when I take that webstreaming, and enlarger it 37"... it looks like crud...

So long as you have the proper expectations for the service...


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## apexmi (Jul 8, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. It takes 30 minutes to begin to watch the show (when the progress bar turns green).


I can watch SD as soon as I select it. HD I give a 5-10 min start. I'm on a comcast internet connection that runs between 6-10 mbps down depending on time of day traffic load.


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## jgrade (Oct 1, 2006)

sunking said:


> Then make it a line item that I'm not getting charged for. Don't give me this 'its free' crap. Everyone who gets a bill is subsidizing a service that currently few people can use.


It's not called subsidizing, it's called R&D and almost EVERY company does it and the customer pays for it in the end. Name a company that does not have R&D or that pases it on to the customer somehow in the price. Never mind don;t answer that it's obvious.



> D* realizes that the service is so sub par for most users that they themselves aren't even willing to outright charge for it because it would be a customer relations nightmare.


Actually, DirecTV is very open about the fact it is a beta program. Please tell me you are going to complain about a beta program having bugs and being free. That is how it works, except for MS.

I can't understand why there is so much bashing about an admitted beta program. We all hope it gets better but we have to be patient. I for one think the PQ is terrible, but am willing to wait until it is a full feature (not beta) before I dare complain. Not everyone will be able to have this service due to the broadband requirement, but that's the breaks. Not everyone can have every service. I for one can't have DSL (not that I care) but oh well that's the way it works; I bet I still pay for the R&D that went into the phone company developing the tech every time I pay my bill.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

sunking said:


> Then make it a line item that I'm not getting charged for. Don't give me this 'its free' crap. Everyone who gets a bill is subsidizing a service that currently few people can use. D* realizes that the service is so sub par for most users that they themselves aren't even willing to outright charge for it because it would be a customer relations nightmare.


Where did I ever say "it's free". I believe you meant to quote someone else.

Members that struggle with the quote function on the forum will definitely have a hard time with advanced features like DOD


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

davidpoe said:


> I didn't even get into the fact that half of the downloads I tried failed mid way through.


Admittedly I haven't downloaded many things (maybe a dozen), but I've never had one fail. Again, there might be a problem with your connection. D* can't monitor your internet service.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> So only the customers with the fastest internet providers are allowed to access new features? How does that reach out to the "Mom and Pop" or "Camry Driver" portion of the customer base? I don't expect miracles, just common sense.


How silly of you to think that in DirecTV-speak "on demand" really means "on demand."


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## pixlpush (Jun 24, 2007)

double check your internet speed:

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

I had been paying for a 768kb DSL connection with Earthlink. Repeated tests showed I was barely getting 350kb. After repeated promises from Earthlink that they had fixed and improved the problem, it got no better. I now have a 12mb connection with Verizon Fios for the same price I was paying for my DSL and I've never seen much under 10mb with various speed tests(I was also over paying for my DSL service).

My main complaint about on demand is that the content is limited, but what's there works fine for me.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

jjohns said:


> How silly of you to think that in DirecTV-speak "on demand" really means "on demand."


Don't get me started on the meaning of "Directv Interactive"...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jjohns said:


> How silly of you to think that in DirecTV-speak "on demand" really means "on demand."


But it does...

I want to watch it... and not wait for some channel to broadcast it.

So to me... it is "On Demand"

For someone else... who wants to start watching the moment they press play, but doesn't have an adaquet broadband connection.... then it is not "so on demand".

I understand that argument...

But it is a name for a product... so long as you know what DirecTV-OnDemand features and usage is... that is what matters.

If you are not happy with the implementation...
Just like everything else... use it as a determining factor to find a carrier that fits more closely with your needs/desire.


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## jgrade (Oct 1, 2006)

This thread has become about semantics. What is the definition of "on demand" as it is used in context with delivering content over the internet using a DirecTV device.

I think Earl says it well. It means that you can watch anything listed in the DOD menu when you "demand" it. Nowhere does it say "instant" or immediate" just "on demand".


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jgrade said:


> This thread has become about semantics. What is the definition of "on demand" as it is used in context with delivering content over the internet using a DirecTV device.
> 
> I think Earl says it well. It means that you can watch anything listed in the DOD menu when you "demand" it. Nowhere does it say "instant" or immediate" just "on demand".


When some "demand", they have no patience, but if they "request" they might have more. :lol:


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Video Shortly just doesn't have a ring to it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

We had this same discussion earlier.

DirecTV chose to use "On Demand" so it would be a checklist item against companies that, frankly, do a better job of delivering the content quicker to their customer base.

Anyone that has dealt with DirecTV should know to take any of their claims with a large grain of salt. Of course, the same can be said for the entire overzealous-marketing driven cable/satellite industry.

As for the "beta" status...once you start making products/services live nationwide on the release software package to the entire customer base is it really fair to call it beta? 

On a side note to some of the folks that used DoD early on...there is an issue nowadays..at times it appears the DirecTV DoD host is getting overrun or bogged down and unable to deliver content at even 1mbps.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> I would love this if it were true. Please make it so.


At least it's free. I hardly ever use it but it's there if I want to. I download a movie to watch the next day. No complaints as long as no one has to pay for it.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Video Shortly just doesn't have a ring to it.


!rolling


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## jwebb1970 (Oct 3, 2007)

Outside of a few music videos & some AQUA TEEN HUNGER FORCE eps, all I have really DL'ed from DoD in any number are Nick Jr/PBS Sprout programming for my 5 yr old (she does love her DORA & THOMAS episodes). I usually queue up several in the evening & by morning, all are waiting on the DVR list.

Clsest I have come to "real time" was starting a program about 5 minutes in from beginning of DL. Worked fine.

I'm on DSL right now - 3.0Mbps. Depending on the time of day, DL times are pretty much in "real time" - a 30 minutes show takes a little less than 30 minutes to finish. Sometimes more when doing it midday, for example.

But even @ real time DL speeds, one can start watching within a few minutes.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> My kids for instance are not going to wait for 30 minutes to watch something they find. They are inpatient.


That is the beauty of the DVR. The ability to have lots of content stored up for viewing on whatever schedule you like.

I bet that in most cases if the kids (yours, mine or Earl's) took the time to find 3 things they are interested in watching, by the time they were done, they could watch the one that started downloading first through from start to finish.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Ken S said:


> We had this same discussion earlier.
> 
> DirecTV chose to use "On Demand" so it would be a checklist item against companies that, frankly, do a better job of delivering the content quicker to their customer base.
> 
> ...


"As for the 'beta' status...once you start making products/services live nationwide to the entire customer base is it really fair to call it beta?"

Of course it is - if your testers really are the entire customer base.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Dr. Booda said:


> Don't get me started on the meaning of "Directv Interactive"...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> As for the "beta" status...once you start making products/services live nationwide on the release software package to the entire customer base is it really fair to call it beta?


Has there been any marketting yet for DoD? (Outside of the actual box itself) ?

This is no different then any other service that is "open" to the public, while the last stages of development and tweeking occur (for example: When GOOGLE or YAHOO goes through a redesign and gives you access to the BETA version)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Thaedron said:


> I bet that in most cases if the kids (yours, mine or Earl's) took the time to find 3 things they are interested in watching,


My little guy already has made a habit of it...
He knows how to use the DoD areas, and check for newer episodes of his shows... and ques them up so he can watch them later on...

He then watches the first one, as typically it is ready to go by the time he is done queuing up all the other shows.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Has there been any marketting yet for DoD? (Outside of the actual box itself) ?
> 
> This is no different then any other service that is "open" to the public, while the last stages of development and tweeking occur (for example: When GOOGLE or YAHOO goes through a redesign and gives you access to the BETA version)


Marketing: http://www.directv.com/dod/dod.html, They issued a press release, it's in their investor presentations. I recall seeing it on a mailer. So, yes...I'd say they're marketing the service. That and that little thing about it appearing near the top of the main menu and in the program guide of their HD DVRs.

I guess when it comes to labeling DoD beta with the number of changes, stability fixes, UI changes, etc that have happened and are continuing to happen on the HR2x series how is the condition of the DoD or Media Share function really all that different than the other functions in the box? Should it all be labeled beta...or none of it? I guess it's all just a marketing thing...words only have to have the meaning they want them to have at that particular moment in time and for that particular item.


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## Vinny (Sep 2, 2006)

As long as it takes less time than it currently takes for me to 

1) Get off my sofa
2) Open my DVD storage closet
3) Find a DVD I want to watch.
4) Turn on my DVD player
5) Get passed the main menu of the DVD
6) Get passed the movie trailers.

Its ON DEMAND to me!!

:hurah: :lol:


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Marketing: http://www.directv.com/dod/dod.html, They issued a press release, it's in their investor presentations. I recall seeing it on a mailer. So, yes...I'd say they're marketing the service. That and that little thing about it appearing near the top of the main menu and in the program guide of their HD DVRs.
> 
> I guess when it comes to labeling DoD beta with the number of changes, stability fixes, UI changes, etc that have happened and are continuing to happen on the HR2x series how is the condition of the DoD or Media Share function really all that different than the other functions in the box? Should it all be labeled beta...or none of it? I guess it's all just a marketing thing...words only have to have the meaning they want them to have at that particular moment in time and for that particular item.


"Marketing: http://www.directv.com/dod/dod.html"
Yup. I'd say that classifies as "Outside of the actual box itself".


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

> 1) Get off my sofa
> 2) Open my DVD storage closet
> 3) Find a DVD I want to watch.


You forgot step 3b) Decide that I don't really feel like watching Caddyshack for the 116th time, get in the car and drive to the video store to get something I haven't seen.


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## 02chevyman (Sep 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> And who says that there won't be sat delivered DOD in HD coming after the launch of D11...I believe there is a reason Directv is still calling it Beta...


there is no way that on demand will be delivered via satellite... there is no way that any satellite will have enough bandwidth to carry all the on demand content. they would have to broadcast all the on demand content constantly, and then you would have to start in the middle of the broadcast and it still wouldnt be on demand. the new satellite that is being launched is to provide even more hd programming


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Marketing: http://www.directv.com/dod/dod.html, They issued a press release, it's in their investor presentations. I recall seeing it on a mailer. So, yes...I'd say they're marketing the service. That and that little thing about it appearing near the top of the main menu and in the program guide of their HD DVRs.
> 
> I guess when it comes to labeling DoD beta with the number of changes, stability fixes, UI changes, etc that have happened and are continuing to happen on the HR2x series how is the condition of the DoD or Media Share function really all that different than the other functions in the box? Should it all be labeled beta...or none of it? I guess it's all just a marketing thing...words only have to have the meaning they want them to have at that particular moment in time and for that particular item.


So I stand corrected....
Guess I am no longer on the mailing release as I never saw the mailer.

I know they have talked about it the investor meetings, but they always have referred to it as something in development/beta.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> You forgot step 3b) Decide that I don't really feel like watching Caddyshack for the 116th time, get in the car and drive to the video store to get something I haven't seen.


This is exactly what my wife stated; driving to Blockbuster and back is faster than DOD. I can surely accomplish that in 30 minutes, and have two hours of HD content to watch versus only 30 minutes of SD. Oh yeah, the Blu-Ray disc from Blockbuster is the same price to rent as HD PPV via DOD, and the PQ is obviously better. We also don't have to pay $60-$100 a month for the fastest DSL service.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Then I guess On Demand isn't for you. 

Do make sure DirecTV deducts the money they charge you for On Demand off your monthly bill.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Then I guess On Demand isn't for you.
> 
> Do make sure DirecTV deducts the money they charge you for On Demand off your monthly bill.


Honestly, is that even an option? Are you going to carry Ohio tonight, Hussein?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> Honestly, is that even an option? Are you going to carry Ohio tonight, Hussein?


???


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> ???


Look at Carl's tag line...


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

oh.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Dr. Booda said:


> Honestly, is that even an option? Are you going to carry Ohio tonight, Hussein?


If I can carry my liquor, I'm happy enough.

As for the other, I was being facetious and more than a bit unkind towards you. For that, I feel bad. It is unfortunate On Demand doesn't work for you, but, by your own admittance, you don't want to get an Internet connection of sufficient speed to make it work. It doesn't work for me, either, but for different reasons and that's also too bad. Such is life. Not all new technologies are for everyone. At least we aren't being charged for it, which was my poor joke, although I don't begrudge DirecTV for using my fees for further R&D. On Demand, or some version of it, _IS_ DirecTV's future and maybe, down the road, incarnation #3 will work for both of us.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> If I can carry my liquor, I'm happy enough.
> 
> As for the other, I was being facetious and more than a bit unkind towards you. For that, I feel bad. It is unfortunate On Demand doesn't work for you, but, by your own admittance, you don't want to get an Internet connection of sufficient speed to make it work. It doesn't work for me, either, but for different reasons and that's also too bad. Such is life. Not all new technologies are for everyone. At least we aren't being charged for it, which was my poor joke, although I don't begrudge DirecTV for using my fees for further R&D. On Demand, or some version of it, _IS_ DirecTV's future and maybe, down the road, incarnation #3 will work for both of us.


I agree with your sentiment in general. My worry is our bill; there is a specific line item for DOD. If customers are given an option to opt out of the service if a charge is levied, then no problem. I don't really mind the R&D costs as that is the price we pay for all technology development.


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## apexmi (Jul 8, 2006)

pixlpush said:


> double check your internet speed:
> 
> http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/
> 
> ...


Here are my results from the test site above

Chicago Server
Download Speed: 24565 kbps (3070.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2250 kbps (281.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

Seattle Server
Download Speed: 14073 kbps (1759.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1209 kbps (151.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

Atlanta Server
Download Speed: 13759 kbps (1719.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2069 kbps (258.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

This is on a comcast plan advertised as 6mbps


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> I agree with your sentiment in general. My worry is our bill; there is a specific line item for DOD. If customers are given an option to opt out of the service if a charge is levied, then no problem. I don't really mind the R&D costs as that is the price we pay for all technology development.


And right now that line item is $0.00

If it changes from $0.00, as pretty much every other fee on DirecTV, the consumer can decide if they want that feature or not.


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## Renard (Jun 21, 2007)

Just curious
We talked a lot about OUR speed connections, BUT
What's the upload speed at the Directv DOD facilty?
For example what's the max upload for Boomerang, TNT...?


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## bonscott (May 1, 2007)

I downloaded a movie last night on Starz On Demand it said also on Starz HD ON Demand where available. It would be a great feature if Direct TV would start having the HD on demand feed available.


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## davidpoe (Jan 18, 2008)

Carl Spock said:


> If I can carry my liquor, I'm happy enough.
> 
> As for the other, I was being facetious and more than a bit unkind towards you. For that, I feel bad. It is unfortunate On Demand doesn't work for you, but, by your own admittance, you don't want to get an Internet connection of sufficient speed to make it work. It doesn't work for me, either, but for different reasons and that's also too bad. Such is life. Not all new technologies are for everyone. At least we aren't being charged for it, which was my poor joke, although I don't begrudge DirecTV for using my fees for further R&D. On Demand, or some version of it, _IS_ DirecTV's future and maybe, down the road, incarnation #3 will work for both of us.


If on demand is Directv's future they are in trouble. When FIOS comes my way, why would I pay for FIOS so Directv's future works???? I live in Central NJ, more choices are coming our way. Everyone I know that has DTV has it for the NFL, they better hold on to that exclusive.

By the way, had to reset my hr21-700 when I got home today, again...what's up with that.

Dave in NJ


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

davidpoe said:


> If on demand is Directv's future they are in trouble. When FIOS comes my way, why would I pay for FIOS so Directv's future works???? I live in Central NJ, more choices are coming our way. Everyone I know that has DTV has it for the NFL, they better hold on to that exclusive.
> 
> By the way, had to reset my hr21-700 when I got home today, again...what's up with that.
> 
> Dave in NJ


Not sure how the pricing works, but since most of these services... you are not forced to purchase both TV and Internet service....

The options are still there for those that want the faster/better internet connection, while keeping their entertainment provider choice.

I do that now with Comcast (Internet) and TV (DirecTV).

As for the "NFL" is keeping people here, sure it is keeping some... but it will be real intresting to see if that day ever comes when people have to put their money where their "figers type".


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

davidpoe said:


> If on demand is Directv's future they are in trouble. When FIOS comes my way, why would I pay for FIOS so Directv's future works???? I live in Central NJ, more choices are coming our way.


You make my point. Crystal balls are notoriously fuzzy but DirecTV's swami says that in a dozen years, they will be less of a 24/7 content provider of a few hundred TV channels and more of a video on demand provider. You'll say, _I want to watch Law & Order to see if McCoy is using a walker yet_, and you'll just download the latest episode. They'll have to be able to provide it to you because, as you say, you'll be able to get that service from your local cable company, your phone company and others. To remain competitive, DirecTV will have to be able to offer On Demand+++, or whatever it will be called. It is their future. Otherwise, they are out of business.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Carl Spock said:


> You make my point. Crystal balls are notoriously fuzzy but DirecTV's swami says that in a dozen years, they will be less of a 24/7 content provider of a few hundred TV channels and more of a video on demand provider. You'll say, _I want to watch Law & Order to see if McCoy is using a walker yet_, and you'll just download the latest episode. They'll have to be able to provide it to you because, as you say, you'll be able to get that service from your local cable company and others. To remain competitive, DirecTV will have to be able to offer On Demand+++, or whatever it will be called. It is their future. Otherwise, they are out of business.


You can say that about any carrier.... 12 years from now is a LONG LONG time... What they do today, has only a marginal bearing on what will occur 12 years from now.

Look back 12 years ago.
Most of us were still on 56k baud modems at best
Very very very few us knew what HD was, let alone what a DVR was.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for the "NFL" is keeping people here, sure it is keeping some... but it will be real intresting to see if that day ever comes when people have to put their money where their "fingers type".


I've had NFLST for 11 years (it was the only reason I moved to DirecTV), and I will leave if FIOS comes to my area and offers the equivalent package. If they don't, then the cost of the DirecTV package would have to be considered. I'm already paying over $20 a week (with SF) to watch the package during the season, and honestly I'm not sure what the price limit would be to terminate service. Football is really important in our household, and satisfying my wife's desires extends my longevity.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

No doubt, Earl, 2020 is a long time from now and anything can happen. The crystal ball prediction came from DirecTV's stockholder briefings. I read about it here. This is at least one scenario they are looking at, as are other content providers. 

Who knows? Maybe we'll go back to the breakfast cereal economy of my youth, where everything I wanted to own was either on the back of a cereal box or in a comic book ad. We'll find DVDs mixed in with our corn flakes and collect box tops which can be redeemed for 3D movies at the local cineplex.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

02chevyman said:


> there is no way that on demand will be delivered via satellite... there is no way that any satellite will have enough bandwidth to carry all the on demand content. they would have to broadcast all the on demand content constantly, and then you would have to start in the middle of the broadcast and it still wouldnt be on demand. the new satellite that is being launched is to provide even more hd programming


Umm...yes they could by using their satellites to stream popular content to the reserved area of the DVR's harddrive. Wouldn't have to be the whole show either maybe just enough of each show to allow even a slow connection (1.5mbps) to stay ahead. Would it be thousands of shows? No...but they could probably get the top 50 or so that way.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'd like to see them put a couple of HD examples on the DOD menu. . .something other than the ppv movies that are there.

Something of a known size so we could gauge download speeds -- although that opens another BIG can of worms!

Even the 10 minute test pattern on HDNet would be helpful.


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

My biggest disappointment about DOD is not so much the networking issue, but the lack of programming offered. There seems to be only a haphazard selection of shows with no rhyme or reason as to what is offered. You certainly won't be able to catch up on a season of anything. A co-worker was telling me about a show on AMC called Breaking Bad which sounded like it was worth checking out. He mentioned how the entire first 5 episodes were available on Comcast On Demand. Not surprisingly, no episodes are available on Directv On Demand.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

It's a beta, people!


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## ouijal (Aug 22, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> It's a beta, people!


The HR2x ?


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Even Comcast on Demand doesn't start the instant you select the show, there are some "Please Wait" moments in there. Oh and it doesn't always work either. When I had Comcast, the service was not available many times I tried to use it.


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## Bugg77 (Jun 27, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> It's a beta, people!


I'm with you... I'm sure D* will be bringing more to it once they can establish the utilization rate and a few other changes.

That's the problem with public betas; everyone forgets that it is just a test and does not necessarily represent the final product.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

I just happened to have the opportunity to hook my HR21 up to the network over the weekend so now I have Media Sharing and DoD active. My wife and I are astounded at both of the features - in a good way. 

The media share is just... awesome. Being able to view a slideshow of the thousands of pictures held hostage on my computer on the big screen without having to plug the camera into the computer or burn them to CD every time is fantastic. I can't wait to upgrade my computer's hard drive to store all the home videos and have them accessible too. 

And to address DoD's "lack" of content. Hmmm. I just moved back to D* from Comcast a few months ago and, if memory serves me, Comcast had less. Have you people even gone through the entire DoD menu to see what's there?! When I was with Comcast and wanted to pull up a CBS show, for instance, there would only be one or two shows available. The premium channels have exactly the same content. I don't know what you're looking for but, in general, if it's available on Comcast and not DirecTV that's news to me. And just because it doesn't have some obscure AMC show doesn't mean you should disparage it as crap. And the speed is just fine for me - at 6mbps I'm able to start a show within a minute of putting it in the queue and never catch up to the end. 

And finally, what in the heck did you all do before DirecTV even offered an on demand service?? Probably complained about their lack of competitive technology. I know this sounds like a broken record and I'm going to get people moaning over this, but if you truly like Comcast on demand's offerings so much more than DirecTVs (BETA) offerings then why... oh, nevermind. 

The grass is always greener, isn't it?


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I just happened to have the opportunity to hook my HR21 up to the network over the weekend so now I have Media Sharing and DoD active. My wife and I are astounded at both of the features - in a good way.
> 
> The media share is just... awesome. Being able to view a slideshow of the thousands of pictures held hostage on my computer on the big screen without having to plug the camera into the computer or burn them to CD every time is fantastic. I can't wait to upgrade my computer's hard drive to store all the home videos and have them accessible too.
> 
> ...


I spent an hour and looked through the entire DOD menu one day, and found only one interesting choice. When I chose Penn & Teller's Bull.... to record, I got the "Not Authorized Content" message because I don't have Showtime. I gave up after that.

I never once had any desire for an on demand type service on the HR2x as the PPV options were adequate the few times a year I used them. I don't usually have a problem finding something to watch on live TV or from Blockbuster. My core issue is that I think that the basic operation of the box should be completely fixed and stable prior to any type of Beta releases (which end up being Alpha or worse in reality) of copycat features from competitors.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Just curious, what did you (or could you) watch on Comcast on Demand that you can't on DirecTV?


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> When I was with Comcast and wanted to pull up a CBS show, for instance, there would only be one or two shows available.


Well, that's one or two more than DirecTV has from any of the big four networks. Other than the extremely slow download rates, that is my biggest complaint about DirecTV's VOD, there are no network shows available. It would be fantastic to be able to go and download, for example, episodes from the first season of "The Office" if you've never seen it and wanted to catch up on the show.

Oh, and it would also be nice if those network shows were actually available in HD. Although that might render the service completely unusable for "On Demand", since it currently takes about 20-25 minutes for me to download a 30 minute SD program (this is on a 15Mbps cable internet).


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> It would be fantastic to be able to go and download, for example, episodes from the first season of "The Office" if you've never seen it and wanted to catch up on the show.


It would be fantastic if _any_ TV service offered that. But they don't at least as of December.

Listen, I'm not trying to be an apologist for DirecTV and I'd like the content as much as you guys would but give them a break! They have 10 times the HD content of cable. And they're also dealing with the content providers to get them in line to provide the service. I'm sure it will come when they come out of *BETA*



whitepelican said:


> it currently takes about 20-25 minutes for me to download a 30 minute SD program (this is on a 15Mbps cable internet).


Really? I'm at 10-15 minutes on 6mbps.

EDIT: what difference does it make how long it takes to download - I can start watching a queued show almost immediately so it's a moot point.(YMMV)


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Dr. Booda said:


> My core issue is that I think that the basic operation of the box should be completely fixed and stable prior to any type of Beta releases (which end up being Alpha or worse in reality) of copycat features from competitors.


In a perfect world, where DVRs are built strictly for performance, this would be the case. Unfortunately, in the real world of consumer electronics, people judge equipment by its freatures and specifications. I wish it wasn't the case but people will buy Box A over Box B simply because Box A has 320 framastams and Box B has only 270. More framastams are good, right? Now Box B may come with a lot simpler remote to use, run cooler and have a better power supply,, but those facts don't show up on the company's website or in the 2" x 6" sign on the edge of the shelf at Best Buy. Instead, through a bold print listing of features, you will discover it has 50 less framastams than Box A. The average consumer will then pass it by. As Ken S. pointed out, this is the same reason that DirecTV calls this feature On Demand. A potential buyer going through his list of desired features and now say, _check_.

In that perfect world, consumer electronics would be purchased by considering these following three criteria in this order:

1) Reliability and serviceability
2) Performance
3) Features

If it's broken, it's no good at all. That's why it's #1. Then how well does it work and finally, does it have the specific features I want?

Unfortunately, most people buy equipment when considering the criteria in this order:

1) Features
2) Performance
3) Reliability and serviceability

What's wrong with this picture?


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> This is exactly what my wife stated; driving to Blockbuster and back is faster than DOD. I can surely accomplish that in 30 minutes, and have two hours of HD content to watch versus only 30 minutes of SD. Oh yeah, the Blu-Ray disc from Blockbuster is the same price to rent as HD PPV via DOD, and the PQ is obviously better. We also don't have to pay $60-$100 a month for the fastest DSL service.


Got to agree with you there, pal.
If you can drive to the video store, rent the HD DVD, drive home, insert the DVD and begin watching it before the D* DOD has started - I would hardly call that "on demand".


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Unfortunately, most people buy equipment when considering the criteria in this order:
> 
> 1) Features
> 2) Performance
> ...


CS,

Gotta disagree with you one your list. It's more like this...

1. Price
2. Features
3. Price
4. Brand Name
5. Price
6. Performance
7. Price
8. Reliability

Did I mention Price?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jjohns said:


> Got to agree with you there, pal.
> If you can drive to the video store, rent the HD DVD, drive home, insert the DVD and begin watching it before the D* DOD has started - I would hardly call that "on demand".


I had a 3 Mb/s cable modem. Some days an SD movie would take 10-14 hours to completely download.
I changed to DSL and solved the problem. I pick something out of the menu, exit out of the menu and start watching it. I don't need to wait for it to completely download. 
With HD programs I need to wait.
Content is an issue for me, but it is the same for network TV, premium movies, and the video store, since I want "something good" to watch and this is very much: YMMV.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Ken S:

:lol:

Point taken.

(That spiel was a standard sales pitch for me at my stereo store. I much have given that speech, framastams and all, a thousand times. And price wasn't an issue. If I got them to believe my pitch, then I'd get my price.







)


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> what difference does it make how long it takes to download - I can start watching a queued show almost immediately so it's a moot point.


It makes a huge difference when it comes to HD content, which is what I was referring to. I can watch most SD content in real-time, although I have found a few times that that can even be an issue. But if I wanted to watch an HD movie "On Demand", I would probably have to wait several hours before I could even begin viewing.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> .... since it currently takes about 20-25 minutes for me to download a 30 minute SD program (this is on a 15Mbps cable internet).


This is a sign of the same problem I had with my cable modem. While speedtest would show I had "full speed", my cable service was timesharing my bandwidth. In the middle of the night I had it 100% of the time, but daytime or weekends it could drop down to 10% of the time due to other users on my node.
Changing ISP resolved this for me.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> This is a sign of the same problem I had with my cable modem. While speedtest would show I had "full speed", my cable service was timesharing my bandwidth. In the middle of the night I had it 100% of the time, but daytime or weekends it could drop down to 10% of the time due to other users on my node.
> Changing ISP resolved this for me.


I find this hard to believe. I can download from Usenet at ~14000kbps, which is just what Speedtest.net and Speakeasy's speed test report for my connection. When I start a VOD transfer on my HR20, and then re-run a speedtest, it shows that my speed has only dropped by about 1500kbps, which is what the VOD is using. I started downloading a 24 minute show 12 minutes ago, and it is currently downloading in just real time, 50% complete. I'm more inclined to believe it is DirecTV's servers that are just not up to snuff at this point.


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## decker12 (Jan 10, 2008)

whitepelican said:


> I find this hard to believe. I can download from Usenet at ~14000kbps, which is just what Speedtest.net and Speakeasy's speed test report for my connection. When I start a VOD transfer on my HR20, and then re-run a speedtest, it shows that my speed has only dropped by about 1500kbps, which is what the VOD is using. I started downloading a 24 minute show 12 minutes ago, and it is currently downloading in just real time, 50% complete. I'm more inclined to believe it is DirecTV's servers that are just not up to snuff at this point.


That is my consensus as well. I have some decent bandwidth reporting tools on my router, and when VOD is downloading something, it's not much of a hit on my overall bandwidth. Usually maxes out at 100kb/s and I haven't noticed a difference between prime time or trying to download at 3 AM.

Still, I can watch things in near real time, but I usually give it a 5 minute buffer to get started.

My guess is that either the DirecTV servers aren't yet up to snuff (it is in beta afterall), or they purposely limit the speeds with the logic that as long as you're downloading in near-real time, you shouldn't "need" to go any faster (especially because there's no commericals to fast forward through).


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

decker12 said:


> ...or they purposely limit the speeds with the logic that as long as you're downloading in near-real time, you shouldn't "need" to go any faster (especially because there's no commericals to fast forward through).


Which makes perfect sense to me but some folks see the need to bash it unless it downloads the entire program to your hard drive instantly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> I find this hard to believe. I can download from Usenet at ~14000kbps, which is just what Speedtest.net and Speakeasy's speed test report for my connection. When I start a VOD transfer on my HR20, and then re-run a speedtest, it shows that my speed has only dropped by about 1500kbps, which is what the VOD is using. I started downloading a 24 minute show 12 minutes ago, and it is currently downloading in just real time, 50% complete. I'm more inclined to believe it is DirecTV's servers that are just not up to snuff at this point.


While you may find it hard to believe, everything you've posted is exactly what happened to me, only my speeds were slower.
My last "A-B" test was: cable downloading from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, with 45% of the show. I paused the program and changed over to DSL, and within 45 min had the last 55%. This clearly showed [to me] it wasn't on DirecTV's end.
I had been working with my cable regional network gurus for several months and never could get them to "fix it". I know more than most about the cable modem systems as I've worked for companies that make the equipment. In a well managed system, nodes are added [split] as the users traffic increases.


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## Bugg77 (Jun 27, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> ... I wish it wasn't the case but people will buy Box A over Box B simply because Box A has 320 framastams and Box B has only 270. More framastams are good, right?


How did you get your HR20 up to 320 framastams? I've only been able to get mine to 295! It must be one of those CE releases! :uglyhamme


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bugg77 said:


> How did you get your HR20 up to 320 framastams? I've only been able to get mine to 295! It must be one of those CE releases! :uglyhamme


He uses monster cables exclusively. :lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> He uses monster cables exclusively. :lol:


Or coat hangers:

http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> While you may find it hard to believe, everything you've posted is exactly what happened to me, only my speeds were slower.
> My last "A-B" test was: cable downloading from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, with 45% of the show. I paused the program and changed over to DSL, and within 45 min had the last 55%. This clearly showed [to me] it wasn't on DirecTV's end.
> I had been working with my cable regional network gurus for several months and never could get them to "fix it". I know more than most about the cable modem systems as I've worked for companies that make the equipment. In a well managed system, nodes are added [split] as the users traffic increases.


That may have been true for you, but I'm not talking about 8-12 hour downloads here. My download speeds are usually just slightly better than realtime for SD programs. Which is fine, I guess, but I wouldn't mind seeing it 2x that speed. I do like that it doesn't hog my network bandwidth. The only problem I have is that these speeds are not conducive to "On Demand" HD downloads.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> That may have been true for you, but I'm not talking about 8-12 hour downloads here. My download speeds are usually just slightly better than realtime for SD programs. Which is fine, I guess, but I wouldn't mind seeing it 2x that speed. I do like that it doesn't hog my network bandwidth. The only problem I have is that these speeds are not conducive to "On Demand" HD downloads.


Let me put it this way for you then: Why is my 5 Mb/s DSL faster than yours?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> I spent an hour and looked through the entire DOD menu one day, and found only one interesting choice. When I chose Penn & Teller's Bull.... to record, I got the "Not Authorized Content" message because I don't have Showtime. I gave up after that.


If you can never find anything worth watching on DOD, then why do you care how long it takes to download via your crappy internet?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> If you can never find anything worth watching on DOD, then why do you care how long it takes to download via your crappy internet?


:scratchin because then there would be nothing to complain about, of course!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> If you can never find anything worth watching on DOD, then why do you care how long it takes to download via your crappy internet?


While I find myself !rolling , maybe it's time to stop going after posters and just let it die.


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## SAlBO (Jan 6, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> While I find myself !rolling , maybe it's time to stop going after posters and just let it die.


you are a wise man beyond your years......hehe


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Let me put it this way for you then: Why is my 5 Mb/s DSL faster than yours?


I dunno. That's what I'd really like to find out. You're in California, n'est-ce pas? Is that where DirecTV's servers that are doing the VOD feeds are also located? I suppose that could be a partial reason at least. I just know I have a very consistent and fast internet connection that isn't being taken advantage of when I use VOD on my HR20-100. I know cable modems can, in general, have inconsistent speeds due to bandwidth sharing, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case in my neighborhood.

I guess I'm left wondering whether the slow uploads are due to hardware or software issues within my HR20, or if it is just left up to the variable that is the interwebs. I really doubt that trading in my 15mbps cable for 5mbps DSL would improve anything.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> I dunno. That's what I'd really like to find out. You're in California, n'est-ce pas? Is that where DirecTV's servers that are doing the VOD feeds are also located? I suppose that could be a partial reason at least. I just know I have a very consistent and fast internet connection that isn't being taken advantage of when I use VOD on my HR20-100. I know cable modems can, in general, have inconsistent speeds due to bandwidth sharing, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case in my neighborhood.
> 
> I guess I'm left wondering whether the slow uploads are due to hardware or software issues within my HR20, or if it is just left up to the variable that is the interwebs. I really doubt that trading in my 15mbps cable for 5mbps DSL would improve anything.


The "choke" can be anywhere in your ISP, from the node to their backbone.
"My cable" learned how to fool speednet. At first I could map users with my upload speeds. I did this for months and could even see when they went to church Sunday morning. After working "with" the gurus and giving them my data, they found a way for speedtest to always report full speed, but my VOD will still show the same variations over time, yet I could go to Microsoft and download anything "normally".
In all honesty, it isn't your hardware or software, and it can't be the location of the DirecTV servers either [unless there is a problem with the ATM lines] as speedtest should show similar speeds to any server [in the US]. There is a lot of info for VOD/DoD here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=137
VOD is simply showing up the weakness of some ISPs since it needs to be continuous. This is where the "timesharing" shows up, which they don't want to admit.
I'm not the best customer to have, as I expect to get what I'm paying for.
My 5 Mb/s DSL is almost 2:1 for SD and somewhere around 1:2 for HD.
If I was paying for 15 Mb/s, I'd expect to find the 7 Mb/s "cap" from the DirecTV servers that some have found.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

And the "Power Boost" that Comcast has, and I'm sure other companies have something similar, confuses the heck out of the speed test sites. I have 6mbps service yet most of the tests I run show me at 25+ most of the time. My actual downloading experiences tell me that I ain't getting anywhere close to that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> And the "Power Boost" that Comcast has, and I'm sure other companies have something similar, confuses the heck out of the speed test sites. I have 6mbps service yet most of the tests I run show me at 25+ most of the time. My actual downloading experiences tell me that I ain't getting anywhere close to that.


"burst verses sustained speeds".


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> If you can never find anything worth watching on DOD, then why do you care how long it takes to download via your crappy internet?


Since you didn't read the end of my post, here it is again:

My core issue is that I think that the basic operation of the box should be completely fixed and stable prior to any type of Beta releases (which end up being Alpha or worse in reality) of copycat features from competitors.

Regardless of my feelings on the provided content, maybe there are others with similar issues. Maybe others would like to view the content but have to wait hours for a download. Maybe DirecTV should fix the issue on their end (if it exists). Maybe they should not add "Beta" features to NR's if they mess up existing baseline features. (Audio glitches, lost recordings, etc. even though things are better in this regard than last year.)

I'll keep my cheap ($19.99/mo) crappy DSL internet as it is more than fast enough to read email and type forum posts. If I want to download other content faster in the future, then I'll upgrade.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Just curious, what did you (or could you) watch on Comcast on Demand that you can't on DirecTV?


I only used the service at my sister's place to grab movies for the kids to watch while visiting. The service started within a minute of waiting, which is critical in keeping the kids happy.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> In a perfect world, where DVRs are built strictly for performance, this would be the case. Unfortunately, in the real world of consumer electronics, people judge equipment by its freatures and specifications. I wish it wasn't the case but people will buy Box A over Box B simply because Box A has 320 framastams and Box B has only 270. More framastams are good, right? Now Box B may come with a lot simpler remote to use, run cooler and have a better power supply,, but those facts don't show up on the company's website or in the 2" x 6" sign on the edge of the shelf at Best Buy. Instead, through a bold print listing of features, you will discover it has 50 less framastams than Box A. The average consumer will then pass it by. As Ken S. pointed out, this is the same reason that DirecTV calls this feature On Demand. A potential buyer going through his list of desired features and now say, _check_.
> 
> In that perfect world, consumer electronics would be purchased by considering these following three criteria in this order:
> 
> ...


I agree with your order of the criteria. Price to me doesn't enter the discussion until first or last. If I can't afford something, I won't even research it. If I can, then the "wife price gate" has to be passed through after completing the research (always the most difficult...).


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "burst verses sustained speeds".


marketing versus satisfied customer!

You know how many people are misled by this though? They go on speedtest.net and see 25mbps and are extremely happy since they're only paying for 6mbps service and call it a day.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> :scratchin because then there would be nothing to complain about, of course!


Nope, there's always the lack of DLB...


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

I am happy that D* stepped to the plate and found a way to offer "On Demand" since they obviously do not have a "cable connection" from their office to my house. This seems to be the best way a sat provider can handle this.


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## spaldingclan (Jan 22, 2008)

when do they update the offerings? Seems like nothing has changed in the month or so I've had it.

I did watch the whole 2nd season of Dexter this way which was nice. but other than the softcore porn on the Showtime DOD site, not much else is interesting!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

spaldingclan said:


> when do they update the offerings? Seems like nothing has changed in the month or so I've had it.
> 
> I did watch the whole 2nd season of Dexter this way which was nice. but other than the softcore porn on the Showtime DOD site, not much else is interesting!


I would say this would fall under the "beta" aspect, as they still need to work out agreements with the content providers.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> My core issue is that I think that the basic operation of the box should be completely fixed and stable prior to any type of Beta releases (which end up being Alpha or worse in reality) of copycat features from competitors.


So, you jump onto a thread about how crappy DOD is and start complaining even though your complaint is really about the equipment that D* uses and not the DOD service? Wow.



Dr. Booda said:


> Regardless of my feelings on the provided content, maybe there are others with similar issues. Maybe others would like to view the content but have to wait hours for a download.


Ah. Your a good Samaritan. Trying to help others by pointing out things you don't like just in case others might have the same thoughts. Very noble of you.



Dr. Booda said:


> Maybe DirecTV should fix the issue on their end (if it exists). Maybe they should not add "Beta" features to NR's if they mess up existing baseline features. (Audio glitches, lost recordings, etc. even though things are better in this regard than last year.)


There's no issues to fix regarding DOD (remember, that's what this thread is about). They didn't mess up any baseline features regarding DOD (again, to remind you, that's what this thread is about). There haven't been reports of audio glitches on DOD movies. There haven't been any reports of lost DOD downloads (assuming that's what you mean by lost recordings). There haven't been any reports of etc.

Or did you mean audio glitches in general and lost recordings on a certain piece of equipment? If so, YOU'RE IN THE WRONG THREAD.

This is a thread about DOD. You just randomly pick threads to go in and complain about? Regardless of whether they're related to your issue or not? Why?



Dr. Booda said:


> I'll keep my cheap ($19.99/mo) crappy DSL internet as it is more than fast enough to read email and type forum posts. If I want to download other content faster in the future, then I'll upgrade.


You will eventually.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> While I find myself !rolling , maybe it's time to stop going after posters and just let it die.


I hardly see the fun in that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I hardly see the fun in that.


Sometimes for the sake of the forum, we need to take the high road.
Everyone is allowed to express their opinion and we're not to "pick on" other members.
A gab here and there is one thing, but after awhile you cross the line, and we don't want this forum to become just another one of those.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I have no idea what a "gab" is, so I don't know if I've ever done that.

And while I'll heed your concerns, if someone comes into a thread and posts complaints just for the sake of complaining (which if you've followed along is exactly what happened here), and nobody questions it, then this forum is just another one of those.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> There's no issues to fix regarding DOD (remember, that's what this thread is about). They didn't mess up any baseline features regarding DOD (again, to remind you, that's what this thread is about).


You can look at that DoD UI and say that there's nothing wrong with it?

Here's a few:

1. If something requires a subscription it should be marked as such.

2. Like shows/episodes should be in a folder.

3. Approximate Download Time/Time until "Safely Watch" needs to be added to the program description. (Part of this has been done with the color system)

4. Program Descriptions - Shows should have much more detailed descriptions including actors, year. Episodes should be listed as Season 1 - Episode number XX. Hey, toss in a mini review too.

5. Drop the channel number and network from the main list (Main DoD section). Why does a customer care what DoD channel number a program is from? The network name isn't all that necessary either. Use that space for real information...maybe the length of the program for instance?

6. When selecting a show the screen wastes space. Move the channel name, "Duration" and "Available Until" fields to the top of the screen to the left of the PIG. The "Add to Queue" button could be much smaller and the "Done" button could be more accurately named, "Return". Use of the shortcut color keys to "Add to Queue" and "Return" would be nice as well. With the saved space in the body area you could then expand the description.

7. If a program has a trailer have a key that allows it to be played in the PIG.

8. Shouldn't the Search (blue button) be for DoD items only? Also if you're searching for "Dog the Bounty Hunter" programming having some items come up as "Dog Bonus" isn't really helpful...there's no easy way to know if they are associated with Dog the Bounty Hunter or an Animal Planet show.

9. R-rated titles and show descriptions shouldn't show up if the Parental Controls are set to block this rating...and in no way should the show be downloadable if it is above the rating (it is now.).

10. The categorization of shows is horrendous.

11. There is no way to know what shows have been added and what may be going way from the main screens.

12. Clicking for detail on a show and then coming back out to the list takes far too long.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

MOvies on demand should be coming in Q2 2008 and use "push" to the disk so the movies will be true on demand and not load the network.Also heard that some of the shows today are MPeg 2 when more content is mpeg4 download time/speed should drop in half so that 1.5 mbps should be close to real time download.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> I would say this would fall under the "beta" aspect, as they still need to work out agreements with the content providers.


Boy, I sure hope you are correct... The content sucks right now. 
RA


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I hardly see the fun in that.


Nice attitude. As I won't lower myself to that level, here is a simple explanation to all of your points. If Beta DOD in any way disturbs the function of the HR2x in regards to Live TV viewing or the recording of programs, then why not mention it in this thread? Is everything here mutually exclusive?

The irony about all of this is that people apparently need to have the fastest internet connection possible because they are impatient about waiting for web sites to load, but then don't mind waiting to watch programs when DOD finally grabs them. I'm impatient on the other end; I prefer Live TV (sports, news) to recordings and will find other alternatives for viewing if any recorded material option takes too long. To each his own&#8230;


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

spaldingclan said:


> when do they update the offerings? Seems like nothing has changed in the month or so I've had it.


I don't know about the rest of the channels but Concert TV does seem update monthly and it seems to match what they list on their site : http://www.watchconcert.com/


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> Nice attitude. As I won't lower myself to that level, here is a simple explanation to all of your points. If Beta DOD in any way disturbs the function of the HR2x in regards to Live TV viewing or the recording of programs, then why not mention it


Are your post's a joke? It is not April 1st yet?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Ken S said:


> You can look at that DoD UI and say that there's nothing wrong with it?


I didn't say that. Of course there's things that can be improved upon. That's one of the reasons it's still in beta.

But the general functionality of it is exactly how it's supposed to be. People complain that it takes too long to download - that's a problem with THEIR internet, not DOD itself. People complain that there's no HD - that's something that I believe will come in time. People complain that there's not enough shows - again something that will come in time.

All the things you listed are improvements that can be made, but none of them are things that were supposed to be functioning and aren't - i.e. need to be fixed.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> The irony about all of this is that people apparently need to have the fastest internet connection possible because they are impatient about waiting for web sites to load, but then don't mind waiting to watch programs when DOD finally grabs them.


If people have the fastest internet possible (as you suppose, because they don't want to wait for web pages) then they're not waiting for DOD.

If they don't have a fast connection, then they can't do either.

How is that ironic?

And you should quit using the term "fastest internet connection", because that is not needed for DOD. As I mentioned, I have the slowest connection my provider offers and my DOD is instantaneous and never stalls. Almost any DSL or broadband is sufficient (except yours, apparently).


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

There are several posts in this thread that are outright insults towards each other. A couple of those posts have been reported by your fellow posters.

So here's the warning! Guys..... Settle down and play nice or infractions and or vacations will be issued. 

Thanks,
Jason


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> To me, On Demand means watch immediately, not wait for an indeterminate number of minutes to view a program. Viewing alternative content not provided by other channels is one definition of "On Demand"; mine is the ability to view what I want immediately (like Comcast). Definitions vary of course...


I always had to wait about 2 to 3 minutes for Comcast On Demand to start programs when I used that.

About the same time I wait to watch an SD program with DOD.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ken S said:


> You can look at that DoD UI and say that there's nothing wrong with it?


I can. I don't have any issues with the GUI. I find the shows I want to find and manage to get what I want.

Most of your points were nitpicky. The only one I truly agreed with is that channels that require a subscription should not show up.

No organization of library of shows will satisfy everyone. You criticize the channel driven nature but I am sure that is how DirecTV is selling it to the providers who they turned over programs and internal structure to them within a template. If you ever saw the Comcast mish-mosh or the Verizon "organization" then you would think that DirecTV's channel driven system with an overall index on 1000 is a god-send.

Did you know that you can set up searches OUTSIDE the DOD GUI? I check for HD stuff with a search that uses HDTV and VOD in Recent Searches. Works fine.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

You actually have TWO organizations...

You have the CHANNEL by CHANNEL (with sub-categories inside).

Then on CHANNEL 1000 you have by category.

There are very few other options, that they could do practically on-screen, with the interface device being a remote control.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> I can. I don't have any issues with the GUI. I find the shows I want to find and manage to get what I want.
> 
> Most of your points were nitpicky. The only one I truly agreed with is that channels that require a subscription should not show up.
> 
> ...


Tony,

You like it...I think it's rudimentary at best (but not unusable). I'm sure they'll change it over time...and if it's like the the HR20 itself maybe two or three times a year.

Anyway...I would bet that there are folks at DirecTV that believe the DoD interface needs fixing...that it's not just "fine".


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I didn't say that. Of course there's things that can be improved upon. That's one of the reasons it's still in beta.
> 
> But the general functionality of it is exactly how it's supposed to be. People complain that it takes too long to download - that's a problem with THEIR internet, not DOD itself. People complain that there's no HD - that's something that I believe will come in time. People complain that there's not enough shows - again something that will come in time.
> 
> All the things you listed are improvements that can be made, but none of them are things that were supposed to be functioning and aren't - i.e. need to be fixed.


Spartan,

I guess I have to defer to you as it seems from your statement that you have been made privy to the specs and design documents for DoD.

Do you work there or is it posted somewhere online and I missed it? How else can you make statements like "the general functionality of it is exactly how it's supposed to be" and "none of them are things that were supposed to be functioning and aren't..."

As for the comment about download speeds being slow. Is it not possible that there's a bottleneck on DirecTV's end? It's all too easy to constantly blame the enduser's ISPs or network when we really don't know where the problem lies.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You actually have TWO organizations...
> 
> You have the CHANNEL by CHANNEL (with sub-categories inside).
> 
> ...


Earl,

I don't disagree...although the actual categorization of some of the content is pretty poor. It's obviously a manual process that has been stricken with typos and other errors.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> As for the comment about download speeds being slow. Is it not possible that there's a bottleneck on DirecTV's end? It's all too easy to constantly blame the enduser's ISPs or network when we really don't know where the problem lies.


I can only speak for speed at or below 5 Mb/s, but there is no bottleneck on the DirecTV end.
Now I have compare two ISPs at these speeds and found their bottleneck.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Ken S said:


> How else can you make statements like "the general functionality of it is exactly how it's supposed to be" and


You're supposed to be able to find a show, select it, download it and watch it. That's how DOD works.

It works perfectly for me every time in that regard (and I realize it doesn't work for some, but I don't _think_ it was designed to work on dial up or other slow internet connections).

Can it be improved? Absolutely. But yes, the general functionality (ability to download and watch programs "on demand") is there and works great.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I can only speak for speed at or below 5 Mb/s, but there is no bottleneck on the DirecTV end.
> Now I have compare two ISPs at these speeds and found their bottleneck.


VOS,

I have two ISPs coming into my house (AT&T DSL and Comcast) through a TwinWan router. I can tell you without a doubt that there are times when downloads from the DoD service are constrained. I've had it drop to sub 1mbps for periods of time.
Of course there could be an internet problem of some sort that affects both of my ISPs.
It may also be the times when you're using the service. Being on the east coast makes it more likely that I'll be trying at times when there's more demand.

On another note...I meant to ask what you meant when you said you were mapping users with your upload speeds?


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Blitz68 said:


> Are your post's a joke? It is not April 1st yet?


Poster posts an issue that might portray DirecTV in a negative light.
Poster gets personally attacked.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

jjohns said:


> Poster posts an issue that might portray DirecTV in a negative light.
> Poster gets personally attacked.


Mod took care of it - let it go.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> You're supposed to be able to find a show, select it, download it and watch it. That's how DOD works.
> 
> It works perfectly for me every time in that regard (and I realize it doesn't work for some, but I don't _think_ it was designed to work on dial up or other slow internet connections).
> 
> Can it be improved? Absolutely. But yes, the general functionality (ability to download and watch programs "on demand") is there and works great.


Spartan,

The fact that it may work for you in the way that makes you happy does not mean it is working up to the spec of what DirecTV has in place or for that matter what the standard across the industry might be.

So, how about you ease up on your absolutes. You're happy...that's great. It works just the way you want it...even better for you. It doesn't for everyone...not by a long shot especially when it comes to finding a show and downloading in a reasonable time frame.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> VOS, On another note...I meant to ask what you meant when you said you were mapping users with your upload speeds?


Speedtest stores the results and will show them in a graph [duh]. On my cable, the problem was always with my uplink. In the middle of the night [say 2 AM] I would have full upload speed, which usually lasted to around 7 AM. As my neighbors would wakeup and boot their PCs, I would watch my upload speed drop. The more users on my node, the slower my upload speed. After a few months, it was pretty clear, the number of users would determine my upload speed. On a Sunday at 7-8 AM, it had dropped the usual amount, but at 9 AM it was full speed again, as they went to church. Two hours later, it was even slower as they came back home. There are [or were] almost 500 users on this node. The ISP had been planning to split the node, but for various reasons, it is still in the future. In the six months I waited & tried to get them to fix my problem, the only change I saw was they figured out how to have speedtest show full speed all of the time. VOD of course showed the same variation is speeds over time. At 2 AM full speed and on a weekend it could take all day. Once I changed to DSL, I've never had the problem again. There may be times that the DirecTV service is slow, but I haven't seen it [yet].
Now I'm not trying to tell everybody DSL is better than a cable. Either system can/will have problems if it isn't well managed. My cable was great when it was first installed, but as more subscribers were added [it was the only broadband available] they didn't keep up with the load. DSL is just now coming into the area and over time could have the same problems, if they don't manage the load well.


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## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

Personally... to call it a JOKE seems over the top critical. Maybe it isn't quite "on demand" but I DL a few SD 20 minutes shows and could start watching them within 5 minutes.

Maybe D* should call it Video on Download instead of Demand. Personally, my biggest annoyance was trying to sift through premium channels to find shows I was allowed to download. But my expectations were low.... I've used ReplayTV show sharing where you can grab a show from another Replay customer's box over the internet. You wait DAYS for shows to transfer (limited by their upload speed). DAYS. 20-30 minutes is a dream! Granted SD, but still a dream. 

Now, if NBC/CBS/ABC/Fox allow shows to be DL from d* that I forgot to record, got a black/grey recording, had a conflict, or whatever, that would be great. Mostly for me the content was lacking. Ton of stuff to download I wouldn't have recorded in the first place. But being it is beta that is subject to change. Will it include the NBC/CBS/ABC/Fox networks?


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> DOD is an oxymoron. Even with 6 mbps it takes 30 minutes to grab a 30 minute show? That's not "on demand", that's "wait for 30 minutes for demand". The SD situation is even more pathetic for slower connections, let alone the hours it will take for HD programs.


I have a 5 mbps connection, and I have never had a DOD program so much as pause for buffering. I can watch them pratty much as quickly as it takes for me to click DONE, then hit LIST and select the program. Now, with that said, I would have to say that a long list of Oxygen's Karaoke is not what I would consider a "selection" as far as On Demand goes. Then there are all the STARZ movies (I get HBO). I find it a novelty, but not very useful. Until they add something useful, like NBC, BBCA, ABC, HBO, et al to the On Demand selections, it is not much to write home about.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Spartan,
> 
> The fact that it may work for you in the way that makes you happy does not mean it is working up to the spec of what DirecTV has in place or for that matter what the standard across the industry might be.
> 
> So, how about you ease up on your absolutes. You're happy...that's great. It works just the way you want it...even better for you. It doesn't for everyone...not by a long shot especially when it comes to finding a show and downloading in a reasonable time frame.


Which part of selecting a show (and not that there might be better search capabilities or better categories or better shows or more HD) or downloading it (not including an issue with your internet provider or a slow internet connection) doesn't work for you?

It's not about absolutes or that it works for me. Some members think it should be something that it's not (or that it's not yet). Some things will come in time, but right now, you can select a show and download it in real time (or faster) if you have the appropriate internet connection. What about that is faulty?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

VOS,

I didn't mean my question as a challenge. I just wasn't sure what you meant about tracking them going to church...thought there was some sort of security issue/mobile thing going on that would be fun to learn about.

Unfortunately, cable and DSL both have location issues. With DSL your location as it related to the CO determines your speed while with cable if your location is in an area where there's a lot of other subscribers...especially heavy users you can suffer. They also both have their own reliability issues.

That's why we went with the Xincom DPG503 router and both connections. 



veryoldschool said:


> Speedtest stores the results and will show them in a graph [duh]. On my cable, the problem was always with my uplink. In the middle of the night [say 2 AM] I would have full upload speed, which usually lasted to around 7 AM. As my neighbors would wakeup and boot their PCs, I would watch my upload speed drop. The more users on my node, the slower my upload speed. After a few months, it was pretty clear, the number of users would determine my upload speed. On a Sunday at 7-8 AM, it had dropped the usual amount, but at 9 AM it was full speed again, as they went to church. Two hours later, it was even slower as they came back home. There are [or were] almost 500 users on this node. The ISP had been planning to split the node, but for various reasons, it is still in the future. In the six months I waited & tried to get them to fix my problem, the only change I saw was they figured out how to have speedtest show full speed all of the time. VOD of course showed the same variation is speeds over time. At 2 AM full speed and on a weekend it could take all day. Once I changed to DSL, I've never had the problem again. There may be times that the DirecTV service is slow, but I haven't seen it [yet].
> Now I'm not trying to tell everybody DSL is better than a cable. Either system can/will have problems if it isn't well managed. My cable was great when it was first installed, but as more subscribers were added [it was the only broadband available] they didn't keep up with the load. DSL is just now coming into the area and over time could have the same problems, if they don't manage the load well.


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## mikey6719 (Sep 11, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> To me, On Demand means watch immediately, not wait for an indeterminate number of minutes to view a program. Viewing alternative content not provided by other channels is one definition of "On Demand"; mine is the ability to view what I want immediately (like Comcast). Definitions vary of course...


Thats called Comcast, Charter, etc.... Heres an idea...if On demand is that important to you. CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION and move on. It isnt rocket science to realize D* is a GROWING business and perfects things over time...did you notice the word BETA?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Which part of selecting a show (and not that there might be better search capabilities or better categories or better shows or more HD) or downloading it (not including an issue with your internet provider or a slow internet connection) doesn't work for you?
> 
> It's not about absolutes or that it works for me. Some members think it should be something that it's not (or that it's not yet). Some things will come in time, but right now, you can select a show and download it in real time (or faster) if you have the appropriate internet connection. What about that is faulty?


Finding a show can be difficult and tedious. Sometimes two shows will have the same names with one being a "Making of" or Trailer. Also if you don't know the first character of the name because of a "the" or other strange start it can be hard to find it in the list. Then of course if you find a show you want you may not be eligible to watch it...which you won't know until you go through all the screens to download it.

As for speed issues...it's not always the person's ISP. We have two here and I can see the same problem at times with DOD on both of them...when I can go to other sites and have no speed issues. There are other possibilities of course (routing, internet traffic, etc.), but there's also a good chance that the DoD servers are either having a problem, their bandwidth is being constrained or they're too busy. I know...to some here DirecTV equipment is always "perfect" and "exact" but as hard as it may be to believe it does have problems from time to time.

I guess in reading your posts it was about the absolutes from you that I read. As I said I didn't fully agree with the OP, but the way some of the responses came back were just as bad.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> VOS,
> 
> I didn't mean my question as a challenge. I just wasn't sure what you meant about tracking them going to church...thought there was some sort of security issue/mobile thing going on that would be fun to learn about.
> 
> ...


I didn't see it as one. 
Remote terminals are really helping the DSL "problem" [had to wait eight years for one here] and if the cable companies would split their nodes more, they could keep up too.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I didn't see it as one.
> Remote terminals are really helping the DSL "problem" [had to wait eight years for one here] and if the cable companies would split their nodes more, they could keep up too.


Yep, ATT/BellSouth have been doing that in our area. Comcast has announced significant improvements for South Florida. We'll see. I'm hoping that a Wimax type of competitor can come into the area and start to pressure the hardline folks into better speeds.

I think 50mbps Up/Down would do me for a few years


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Finding a show can be difficult and tedious. Sometimes two shows will have the same names with one being a "Making of" or Trailer. Also if you don't know the first character of the name because of a "the" or other strange start it can be hard to find it in the list. Then of course if you find a show you want you may not be eligible to watch it...which you won't know until you go through all the screens to download it.
> 
> As for speed issues...it's not always the person's ISP. We have two here and I can see the same problem at times with DOD on both of them...when I can go to other sites and have no speed issues. There are other possibilities of course (routing, internet traffic, etc.), but there's also a good chance that the DoD servers are either having a problem, their bandwidth is being constrained or they're too busy. I know...to some here DirecTV equipment is always "perfect" and "exact" but as hard as it may be to believe it does have problems from time to time.
> 
> I guess in reading your posts it was about the absolutes from you that I read. As I said I didn't fully agree with the OP, but the way some of the responses came back were just as bad.


Well, then my apologies. I don't think DOD is perfect and I don't think everything D* does is perfect.

I think there's lots of things they could do to improve DOD. However, the "core" functionality of DOD (as I see it) currently works. I can find a show pretty easily through the search, download it, and watch it. On demand. I think the majority of users can also do this (from what I've read). Does that mean there aren't ever any download problems? Probably not (although I haven't experienced a single one), but I think for a beta service it does it well.

As for the search issues, I personally don't have much of a problem with that. On the main screen you can see what the channel is (on the right). If it's a channel I don't get (like Starz), I know I can't download it so I don't even try. I also haven't noticed an issue with "making of's" or similar items. The title area holds about 30 characters and that's usually enough to put a fairly accurate description. And even if it's not, when you highlight it a better description appears up top to differentiate it (and hitting info brings up more). That being said, I'm sure there are instances when a title isn't clear, but as of right now those seem few and far between and I think D* will eventually fix those types of issues.

I think they'll eventually improve a lot of the features. I'm just patient, I guess.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> As for the search issues, I personally don't have much of a problem with that. On the main screen you can see what the channel is (on the right). If it's a channel I don't get (like Starz), I know I can't download it so I don't even try.
> 
> I think they'll eventually improve a lot of the features. I'm just patient, I guess.


There are other ways of finding DoD content. If you do a title search, that will include OD content. Via that method it is not apparent what channel the content is tied to.

On the rest, I agree. It's far from perfect, but it does work. I reserve judgement until they take the beta tag off.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Thaedron said:


> There are other ways of finding DoD content. If you do a title search, that will include OD content. Via that method it is not apparent what channel the content is tied to.


I've never used it that way, but I just did a title search for Aeon Flux and several come up in the search (after entering AE). When I open the folder they're all listed with the appropriate channel on the right. The last entry says VOD (in blue) and the channel is listed (TMC).

I also found a show that didn't have any other showings (just the DOD). The main list screen doesn't show the channel, but then again none of the searched shows identify the channel from this screen, so if this is the issue it would be an issue with the search feature and not DOD, correct? When I select it, the next screen shows the channel (National Geographic Channel in this case).

Are there times when the channel is not identified like that? Or is it just that the channel is not shown on the first screen (which, as stated, is probably an issue with Search and not DOD)?


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

mikey6719 said:


> Thats called Comcast, Charter, etc.... Heres an idea...if On demand is that important to you. CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION and move on. It isnt rocket science to realize D* is a GROWING business and perfects things over time...did you notice the word BETA?


On demand isn't important to me, and that's the whole point. DirecTV is a satellite provider of excellent programming IMHO. Why are they deciding to branch out into the Internet supply of content which by definition deviates from their core business plan and technical capabilities? It's no surprise that there are issues associated with such a move; stick to the core competencies and grow the business. Leave the Internet delivery of programming content to those that know what they are doing and make their business lives at it. The concept of pushing HD content via satellite is consistent with their core business capabilities. Go for it.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

So, since they can't provide DOD to everyone (since some won't enter the 21st century with their broadband connection), they should choose to not provide it to the millions of subscribers with the appropriate connection?


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> So, since they can't provide DOD to everyone (since some won't enter the 21st century with their broadband connection), they should choose to not provide it to the millions of subscribers with the appropriate connection?


A major mistake for a growing business is to lose their roots and try to move tangentially to their core. Why not wait for a few years to get enough satellite capacity to push HD DOD? Placing resources into a stopgap Internet based DOD scheme isn't the wised choice considering the Marketing push over the past year for "The Leader in HD Channels". The two initiatives are inconsistent. HD will never be delivered via Internet DOD as I think has been acknowledged in the latest Investor call. Is SD Internet based DOD content consistent with the HD customer base? I only watch HD content considering that is why I bought the HDTV for in the first place.

Millions of subscribers have more than 1.5 mbps internet service? Based upon what data?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> Why not wait for a few years to get enough satellite capacity to push HD DOD?


The better question is why wait?

If you can give it to a large segment now and then possibly later give it to everyone else, what's the downside?

You'd rather they didn't provide anything right now, just because you can't take advantage of it?

That's awfully myopic.



Dr. Booda said:


> Millions of subscribers have more than 1.5 mbps internet service? Based upon what data?


The last data I saw was last summer, which showed that the AVERAGE download speed in the US was 2.0. I'll let you google it and find the data. This means that roughly HALF of D*'s customers have a sufficient download speed to take advantage of DOD..

You'd rather they built their business model on the 50% that can't? You'd rather they make half (or more) of their customers wait for DOD just because your $20 internet isn't sufficient?

We get it. You can't download. That must suck. That's a choice you made when deciding what internet speed to get. Don't blame D* for your decisions.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> The last data I saw was last summer, which showed that the AVERAGE download speed in the US was 2.0. I'll let you google it and find the data. This means that roughly HALF of D*'s customers have a sufficient download speed to take advantage of DOD..
> 
> You'd rather they built their business model on the 50% that can't? You'd rather they make half (or more) of their customers wait for DOD just because your $20 internet isn't sufficient?
> 
> We get it. You can't download. That must suck. That's a choice you made when deciding what internet speed to get. Don't blame D* for your decisions.


Show me data that shows that 50% of DirecTV's customers have 2.0 or greater Internet. Quoting the data you mentioned isn't valid if the customers in question get their TV content through their cable connections along with IP service.

A Business model shouldn't be based upon a "Me Too" feature like DOD has been over the last few months. Promote the core strengths in Sports and other HD programming, not SD junk that doesn't appeal to the desired "High Value" customer base via DOD.

I would have preferred if DirecTV had utilized the programmers and capital resources into making the HR2x crash free in regards to Live TV viewing and recording of HD content over the last year rather than this deviation towards SD program redundancy. That would have leveraged their "HD Leader" Marketing strategy versus a desperate attempt to copy competitors.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> I would have preferred if DirecTV had utilized the programmers and capital resources into making the HR2x crash free in regards to Live TV viewing and recording of HD content over the last year rather than this deviation towards SD program redundancy. That would have leveraged their "HD Leader" Marketing strategy versus a desperate attempt to copy competitors.


Well buy stock and then complain.
Since my HR2x "s" haven't crashed in the past year, should I wait for the next feature until you're happy?
Some like DOD and some don't, much like network TV shows.
I doubt DOD HD will ever come through SAT feeds, since it would need to be more like PPV with a "standard" start time. The internet [a dedicated connection] is really the only way to start a program at the whim of the user.


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## konfusion (Jan 27, 2008)

i just wish i could do a direct hook up from the modem


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

konfusion said:


> i just wish i could do a direct hook up from the modem


The last time I used a dial-up connection and wanted 100 Megabytes, it took 8-10 hours. Even an SD movie would take a week at that rate. :eek2:


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> I would have preferred if DirecTV had utilized the programmers and capital resources into making the HR2x crash free in regards to Live TV viewing and recording of HD content over the last year rather than this deviation towards SD program redundancy. That would have leveraged their "HD Leader" Marketing strategy versus a desperate attempt to copy competitors.


As VOS stated, none of my units have crashed. I don't have any problem recording HD content.

As I mentioned earlier, it seems like your issue is not even with DOD, but with the equipment itself (HR2x). Perhaps you'd be better served posting in the appropriate threads.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> As VOS stated, none of my units have crashed. I don't have any problem recording HD content.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, it seems like your issue is not even with DOD, but with the equipment itself (HR2x). Perhaps you'd be better served posting in the appropriate threads.


Um, the thread title is "The Joke That is Directv OD". If that isn't a broad brush, then what is?


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> I would have preferred if DirecTV had utilized the programmers and capital resources into making the HR2x crash free in regards to Live TV viewing and recording of HD content over the last year rather than this deviation towards SD program redundancy. That would have leveraged their "HD Leader" Marketing strategy versus a desperate attempt to copy competitors.


Respectfully, you can't please ALL people ALL of the time.

I don't think the HR2X platform is perfect. Far from it. However it is a mostly solid platform that continues to evolve. If DirecTV were to focus on making the HR2X "perfect" from your perspective, they might be losing out on customers who choose service based on whether or not there is a VoD offering. There may be those people and there may not be. However, I think (IMHO) that the platform is "solid" enough for them to be undertaking the additional feature additions that they are pursuing (VoD, MRV)

Note, you'll never find in the comparison charts a row for "DVR reliability" or "# of days crash free".

And the reality of the matter is that for consumer electronics, if they waited until everything was "perfect" and the device would never crash, we would never see new products. As soon as the device is stable enough to make most users happy and not unduly increase support costs, start shipping and generating revenue. We're discussing entertainment devices, not medical devices that involve life or death consequences. We should keep things in perspective.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Dr. Booda said:


> Um, the thread title is "The Joke That is Directv OD". If that isn't a broad brush, then what is?


Doesn't seem broad to me. It's specifically talking about the Directv On Demand service. Not equipment, not reboots, not failure to record HD programming. DOD.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Doesn't seem broad to me. It's specifically talking about the Directv On Demand service. Not equipment, not reboots, not failure to record HD programming. DOD.


The OP did mention equipment, internet speed, and programming choices, so I disagree with some of your points; however some are valid also. He also mentioned the "copycat" premise for DOD in general, quality of the option, but no business strategies. Some threads are grey, not black and white.



davidpoe said:


> Recently was upgraded to a HR21-700. Love all the HD channels. Hooked up On Demand. My set is a wireless hub, output to a switch, then connections to the HR21 and my xbox 360. Every thing connects fine, but performance stinks. Thought it was the switch so I went directly from the hub to the xbox 360, no problems. Went from switch to 360, no hr 21 connect, no problems. Hook up the hr21 in any configuration and performance degrades. As soon as the hr 21 is hooked up, the network lights on the switch and hub go crazy!!! What is this box doing over the network? I'm not trying to access an on demand program. That's a whole other story. One hour to download a 30 minute program, where you can download a show off of xbox live in a quarter of the time. Long story short, it is not my network. I've since disconnected the hr21 from my network and all is fine again. Which really doesn't matter because what Directv offers thru OnDemand is nominal at best. I am beginning to agree with others who feel that Directv pushed on demand to say they have the feature, with no regard of its quality. Sorry for the rant.
> Dave in NJ


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> Respectfully, you can't please ALL people ALL of the time.
> 
> I don't think the HR2X platform is perfect. Far from it. However it is a mostly solid platform that continues to evolve. If DirecTV were to focus on making the HR2X "perfect" from your perspective, they might be losing out on customers who choose service based on whether or not there is a VoD offering. There may be those people and there may not be. However, I think (IMHO) that the platform is "solid" enough for them to be undertaking the additional feature additions that they are pursuing (VoD, MRV)
> 
> ...


I do understand your points about consumer electronics, but rushing a me too feature out the door just strikes me as a slight panic.

I did give the service another look over yesterday, but the box somehow lost the internet connection over the last week or so. Even if my kids wanted to view some DOD content, I don't want them to have to execute an RBR to do so. I know everyone has a unique definition of "Beta" and how many bugs they'll live with, but mine is judged by if my family will throw down the remote in disgust or not. It's a really high bar unfortunately.


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## Rabushka (Dec 21, 2007)

I just connected my HR20 to the internet. The receiver verifies the connection. When I go to VOD and browse by station it doesn't even list HBO even thoiugh I get it. When I try to download the entire series of "In Treatment" on HBO, only the last 2 weeks are listed. My daughter who has cable in NYC was able to download the entire 7 weeks of the series. The screen says that I can search by number, but when I try to do this the number 5 appears as the letter J. Am I doing something wrong or is this the way D*s VOD works?


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> The last data I saw was last summer, which showed that the AVERAGE download speed in the US was 2.0. I'll let you google it and find the data. This means that roughly HALF of D*'s customers have a sufficient download speed to take advantage of DOD..


If I have DL speed of 15 doesn't that mean there could be 6 people at 56K and our AVERAGE is about 2.0?

yet only 1 in 7 has over 2.0 in the example.......

What 's the MODE speed ..or the pspeed where there an equal number of users Under and above it?


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

Rabushka said:


> My daughter who has cable in NYC was able to download the entire 7 weeks of the series.


DOD is completely lacking right now. I wanted to watch the 'Breaking Bad' series which has all episodes available on Comcast on Demand. D* has zero episodes available. As I posted in a previous thread the content right now is just a haphazard array of programming. If you want to watch an entire season of anything, forget it.


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