# DECA setup newbie question



## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

Guys came out today to setup DECA system. I currently have 3 HR20-700s. Is the band stop filter needed? When the guy plugged the cat5 cable from my switch (cable goes from router to switch to DECA) into the DECA I lost all networking and MVR. Any ideas as to why this would happen?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> Guys came out today to setup DECA system. I currently have 3 HR20-700s. Is the band stop filter needed? When the guy plugged the cat5 cable from my switch (cable goes from router to switch to DECA) into the DECA I lost all networking and MVR. Any ideas as to why this would happen?


Bandstop being needed [or not] depends on the SWiM used.
You need to explain the ethernet setup a bit more.
with 3 HR20-700s, you need one DECA for each and another DECA for your switch/router.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> Guys came out today to setup DECA system. I currently have 3 HR20-700s. Is the band stop filter needed? When the guy plugged the cat5 cable from my switch (cable goes from router to switch to DECA) into the DECA I lost all networking and MVR. Any ideas as to why this would happen?


Perhaps one of the HR20's is still connected to the network via ethernet? If there is a DECA adapter on each HR20, there should be only one connection to the home network, via a DECA.
Only guess I can come up with.

Band Stop needed if the SWM LNB isnt a "green dot" with internal band stop. Otherwise, no.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

I guess the problem is that they did not hook up a DECA to my router. How is that hooked up. Just run the coaxial from "outside" to a DECA to the router?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> I guess the problem is that they did not hook up a DECA to my router. How is that hooked up. Just run the coaxial from "outside" to a DECA to the router?


Basically and power the DECA with another 18 volt PI.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

Also, they only hooked one of the 3 DECAs up to a PI. Do they all need one? All three have all lights lit up.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> Also, they only hooked one of the 3 DECAs up to a PI. Do they all need one? All three have all lights lit up.


as with your other thread/post 
No receiver or DECA on a receiver needs a PI. The SWiM needs a PI, and if all three LEDs are green, then the DECAs are being powered by the receivers.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

Does this SWM need the band stop filter?


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> Does this SWM need the band stop filter?


That looks more like a splitter (a type I haven't seen). Splitters never need BS filters.

What's the problem you're trying to solve?


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## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

That looks like a SWS-8 splitter not a SWM8 box.

BTW, what if my SWM8 has the green sticker and I don't know it and use a filter on it anyway. Any issues using essentially 2 filters?


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

MrLatte said:


> That looks like a SWS-8 splitter not a SWM8 box.
> 
> BTW, what if my SWM8 has the green sticker and I don't know it and use a filter on it anyway. Any issues using essentially 2 filters?


No.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

MrLatte said:


> That looks like a SWS-8 splitter not a SWM8 box.
> 
> BTW, what if my SWM8 has the green sticker and I don't know it and use a filter on it anyway. Any issues using essentially 2 filters?


It says 8 way splitter SWM on it. Just trying to get my DECA setup working. Since they didn't hookup a fourth DECA to my router I unhooked one from one of my boxes and hooked it up to the SWM and then to my switch and when I did that i lost my sat. signal. Just trying to figure out the problem.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

If you lost SAT signal to all receiver, you either pulled the cable coming from the dish, or one that was powering the SWM.
Where did you get the PI to power the DECA you used for the router bridge?
Whether or not you have a bandstop filter doesn't matter for this problem.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> It says 8 way splitter SWM on it. Just trying to get my DECA setup working. Since they didn't hookup a fourth DECA to my router I unhooked one from one of my boxes and hooked it up to the SWM and then to my switch and when I did that i lost my sat. signal. Just trying to figure out the problem.


*You paid for the install. It's supposed to work before the Tech leaves.*

Call D*. Make _them_ fix it. Arbitrarily disconnecting and connecting things you don't understand is a _bad_ idea. :nono2:

The SWM is a switch (hence, *S*ingle *W*ire *M*ultiswitch), in your case, probably located in the LNB at the dish. There will be a single coax coming from the dish which needs to be connected to a specific port on the splitter. The coax from the receiver with the Power Inserter needs to be connected to a specific port as well. All unused outputs on the splitter should have been terminated.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

if they were all on already when he connected the "bridge" deca to your router, the IP's would be all screwed up..
should have connected it and rebooted every reciever..


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

The guys hooking me up today were a little lost. They put a PI on one DECA switch on one tv which i don't think is needed so I took that PI and DECA and hooked it up to my switch. I didn't pull and coax from the SWM just plugged into an empty spot since I only have 3 tbs the SWM had 5 empty spots.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> The guys hooking me up today were a little lost. They put a PI on one DECA switch on one tv which i don't think is needed so I took that PI and DECA and hooked it up to my switch. I didn't pull and coax from the SWM just plugged into an empty spot since I only have 3 tbs the SWM had 5 empty spots.


Put the #$%@! thing back! :bonk1:

That PI wasn't powering the DECA, it was _*powering the SWM*_. Yes, they attach to the same coax... DECA pigtail to receiver, coax between DECA and PI, coax from PI to the *power passing port* on the splitter.

A similar (could actually be identical) PI could be used to power the DECA to interface to your network, if you had one.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> Put the #$%@! thing back! :bonk1:
> 
> That PI wasn't powering the DECA, it was _*powering the SWM*_. Yes, they attach to the same coax... DECA pigtail to receiver, coax between DECA and PI, coax from PI to the *power passing port* on the splitter.
> 
> A similar (could actually be identical) PI could be used to power the DECA to interface to your network, if you had one.


Don't be so mean, he got DECA SWM & a PI, so he didn't know.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

Spoke to installer. Says that ethernet cables still need to be hooked up to each receiver. Told him that defeats the purpose of the DECAs. Said he would talk to his boss and call me tomorrow.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> Spoke to installer. Says that ethernet cables still need to be hooked up to each receiver. Told him that defeats the purpose of the DECAs. Said he would talk to his boss and call me tomorrow.


Well, he's _partly_ right... Ethernet cables *from the DECAs* need to be hooked up to each receiver.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> Well, he's _partly_ right... Ethernet cables *from the DECAs* need to be hooked up to each receiver.


It doesn't sound like that'e what he meant tho....possible i guess. We'll see.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Put things back to the way they were. Please stop screwing around with stuff until you understand what is what and what each part does. If you plug in a PI the wrong way, you can cause serious damage to one of your receivers and/or your other AV gear.

So again, just stop screwing around with things.

Call DirecTv back and have them get someone out to complete your installation.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

You need to understand that you're dealing with multiple DC sources and multiple RF paths in your setup. It is incredibly easy to to damage components if you're not entirely sure what you're doing. While the tech may have been "lost" anything he damages will be replaced by D*. 

It's not a bad thing to want to know how SWM, DECA, etc works, but it's not in your best interest to "play" with the setup without understanding the finer points. I'd take the above posters recomendations and let the tech fix the problem...


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> Spoke to installer. Says that ethernet cables still need to be hooked up to each receiver. Told him that defeats the purpose of the DECAs. Said he would talk to his boss and call me tomorrow.


First of all, :welcome_s to the forum!

You say there is no coax near the router. Are there any cat5 runs from the router near any of the receivers?


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## slowchange (Aug 28, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> First of all, :welcome_s to the forum!
> 
> You say there is no coax near the router. Are there any cat5 runs from the router near any of the receivers?


Yes. I have a cat5 from the router to a switch in my attic and from there i had a cat5 running to each of my receivers. The installer left the cables from athe switch to the receivers and just plugged the DECAs into the receivers with the coax.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

You should print out the wiring diagram in the DECA First Look PDF document, and show it to the techs. My techs kept getting different answers when they called in, so I showed them this diagram. Once they followed it, everything worked (thanks DBSTalk!). This is how the DECA module should look on the back of an HR20-700:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

mcbeevee,

I think you used every A/V connection. :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> mcbeevee,
> 
> I think you used every A/V connection. :lol:


It does look like a contest to see how any connections can be made, but he missed the eSATA jack.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> It does look like a contest to see how any connections can be made, but he missed the eSATA jack.


Too bad he's on SWM...The Sat 2 input looks lonely. :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Too bad he's on SWM...The Sat 2 input looks lonely. :lol:


yeah, but if it was the HR20-100, he'd have that one covered too.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

mcbeevee said:


> You should print out the wiring diagram in the DECA First Look PDF document, and show it to the techs. My techs kept getting different answers when they called in, so I showed them this diagram. Once they followed it, everything worked (thanks DBSTalk!). This is how the DECA module should look on the back of an HR20-700:


Why does your picture show an ethernet cable into the second RJ-45 jack? In a DECA systemn, that should be removed.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

azarby said:


> Why does your picture show an ethernet cable into the second RJ-45 jack? In a DECA systemn, that should be removed.


 think that's usb..


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

azarby said:


> Why does your picture show an ethernet cable into the second RJ-45 jack? In a DECA systemn, that should be removed.





houskamp said:


> think that's usb..


Yep, the HR20-700 only has one RJ-45 jack. My motto is "Why waste all of those extra connections"! Since I have 3 hddvr's, did not need the external eSata drive. That particular HR20 is feeding 2 tv's, dvd recorder, cd recorder, and a vcr. If you look closely, one of the composite outputs has splitters on the audio for the cd recorder, so I could have used a 3rd composite output!


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

slowchange said:


> Yes. I have a cat5 from the router to a switch in my attic and from there i had a cat5 running to each of my receivers. The installer left the cables from athe switch to the receivers and just plugged the DECAs into the receivers with the coax.


So you already know that you need 4 DECAs. The 3 DECAs near your receivers have ethernet jacks and there should have been short blue ethernet cables that go from the DECA to the DVRs, replacing the ethernet cable you had there. (Top port if there are two)

The fourth DECA needs a line from the splitter, a power inserter, and a connection to your router or switch.

Did you previously have 2 lines connecting to SAT-1 and SAT-2? If so, and both lines run to where the splitter is, then you should have an extra coax that you can use for the fourth DECA (when you get it). The coax doesn't have to be near your router, it can be an existing unused cable near one of your receivers. That cable just needs to be connected to your splitter. Alternatively, you can have the installer use a 2-way splitter near any of your receivers to feed the receiver DECA and the fourth DECA.

Instead of the long ethernet cables connecting to your receivers, you'll have the short cables from the DECAs and one of the long cables going from the fourth DECA to your switch.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

David Ortiz said:


> So you already know that you need 4 DECAs. The 3 DECAs near your receivers have ethernet jacks and there should have been short blue ethernet cables that go from the DECA to the DVRs, replacing the ethernet cable you had there. (Top port if there are two)
> 
> The fourth DECA needs a line from the splitter, a power inserter, and a connection to your router or switch.
> 
> ...


I spoke to the installer today to ask about getting the 4th DECA an was told that he spoke to his supervisor and that since I already had cat5 running to 2 of my boxes (the third was a wireless hookup) I should leave it that way, it would be faster on cat5 then going thru the coax.:nono2:


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> I spoke to the installer today to ask about getting the 4th DECA an was told that he spoke to his supervisor and that since I already had cat5 running to 2 of my boxes (the third was a wireless hookup) I should leave it that way, it would be faster on cat5 then going thru the coax.:nono2:


Call D* and tell they you *need an installer that knows what he's talking about!* :rant:


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

It's not clear (to me, at least)... do you have Ethernet cables running from the DECAs to the HRs, or Ethernet cables from your Home Network?


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

dwcolvin said:


> It's not clear (to me, at least)... do you have Ethernet cables running from the DECAs to the HRs, or Ethernet cables from your Home Network?


They are still coming from my home network. The DECAs were basically put in in place of b band converters. No ethernet cables coming from any of the DECAs.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> They are still coming from my home network. The DECAs were basically put in in place of b band converters. No ethernet cables coming from any of the DECAs.


Your setup is wrong.

It must go RG6 from wall to DECA RG6 from DECA to Sat1. ALSO ethernet from DECA to the ethernet port on the receiver.

As it stands now, your decas arn't doing a thing. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

When properly setup, there are NO ethernet cables going from any H/HR to your switch router. The only connect at your switch router would be from another deca to bridge the deca cloud and your network/internet connection.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> They are still coming from my home network. The DECAs were basically put in in place of b band converters. No ethernet cables coming from any of the DECAs.


DECAs come with short blue Ethernet cables that go from the DECA to the RJ-45 on the receiver (it's the *only* Ethernet cable that should be attached to the receiver).

The installer and his supervisor are _clueless._ DirecTV needs to be told (CSR, Tech Support, Retention...) and get this fixed ASAP. *Escalate!* :soapbox:

We'd help if you had the right parts...


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

I decided to just order a fourth DECA and power supply online and do it myself. I have plenty of cat5 and other then plugging that in to each DECA to receiver and putting the fourth DECA near the splitter and my switch I should be good to go.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

mcsmolar said:


> I decided to just order a fourth DECA and power supply online and do it myself. I have plenty of cat5 and other then plugging that in to each DECA to receiver and putting the fourth DECA near the splitter and my switch I should be good to go.


If you're going to DIY (and you *paid* for D* to do it right, so I would discourage that), you can do it with the DECAs you have... hook one up like this:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2459468#post2459468


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> If you're going to DIY (and you *paid* for D* to do it right, so I would discourage that), you can do it with the DECAs you have... hook one up like this:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2459468#post2459468


Absolutely not. Thats a half assed solution to the problem. :nono2: If he's going to do it, he should do it right.

That method is not supported, will put unwanted traffic on the DECA cloud and quite possibly cause performance issues.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Absolutely not. Thats a half assed solution to the problem. :nono2: If he's going to do it, he should do it right.
> 
> That method is not supported, will put unwanted traffic on the DECA cloud and quite possibly cause performance issues.


Oh, give us a break. If he installs his own DECA it's unsupoorted, this configuration does *not* put any additional traffic on the DECA cloud and does *not* cause performance problems. That's just *FUD*.

Now, I think he needs to rant at D* for this insanity, but if they're not going to do it properly and he's on his own, why should he invest needlessly in hardware?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> Oh, give us a break. If he installs his own DECA it's unsupoorted, this configuration does *not* put any additional traffic on the DECA cloud and does *not* cause performance problems. That's just *FUD*.
> 
> Now, I think he needs to rant at D* for this insanity, but if they're not going to do it properly and he's on his own, why should he invest needlessly in hardware?


"Two cents":
Let's not "help" with unsupported setup suggestions.
Those that come here want to know the correct way for these things.


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## mcsmolar (May 22, 2010)

dwcolvin said:


> If you're going to DIY (and you *paid* for D* to do it right, so I would discourage that), you can do it with the DECAs you have... hook one up like this:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2459468#post2459468


Tried this just to see if it works and it works perfectly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mcsmolar said:


> Tried this just to see if it works and it works perfectly.


I'd call it a temp fix and make sure DirecTV comes back to do it correctly.
Letting this slide, will only be cause for the next install to be poor also.
You paid for it and should get what you paid for.
Maybe call after the weekend and you can get a first string CSR.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Two cents":
> Let's not "help" with unsupported setup suggestions.
> Those that come here want to know the correct way for these things.


*I emphasized the correct thing to do is get D* to fix it.* The correct way is *not* to go buy additional parts D* should have provided and install them yourself.

At what point is this insanity going to end? The D* installers are clueless, but you, Mr. Customer, be sure to install it the 'correct' way.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> This gets him running, which is more than I can say for you or RobertE or his idiot installer.


Maybe it's time for you to take a step back from the keyboard?
We're all here to help and what we post for one, will be here for everyone to see.
"Crap now" will stick long after your disclaimers do.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> At what point is this insanity going to end? The D* installers are clueless, but you, Mr. Customer, be sure to install it the 'correct' way.
> 
> This gets him running, which is more than I can say for you or RobertE or his idiot installer. :flaiming


Not all DirecTV installers are idiots. There are some bad ones out there but there are just as many good ones.

Why beat on VOS and Roberte.....


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Not all DirecTV installers are idiots. There are some bad ones out there but there are just as many good ones.
> 
> Why beat on VOS and Roberte.....


I absolutely agree... all DirecTV installers are not idiots... in fact, I would think _the vast majority_ are not. Just the OP's installer and his supervisor.

There is also no doubt that VOS and RobertE are always trying to be helpful, and I have the greatest respect for them.

_But_, after all this guy's gone through, allowing him to go purchase and install hardware that his installer should have installed is *not* helpful.

I think these horror stories are getting to me.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> I absolutely agree... all DirecTV installers are not idiots... in fact, I would think _the vast majority_ are not. Just the OP's installer and his supervisor.
> 
> There is also no doubt that VOS and RobertE are always trying to be helpful, and I have the greatest respect for them.
> 
> ...


I'm sure I wasn't telling him to and doubt Robert was either.

"You think this one was bad".... should have seen/read a few earlier this week.
Bandstops "must be" installed on the inputs to a SWiM-16. Oh My God:bang:bang


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

and when second guy gets there and sees unsupported hookup what will happen?
think the blame won't go towards customer?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> _But_, after all this guy's gone through, allowing him to go purchase and install hardware that his installer should have installed is *not* helpful.
> 
> I think these horror stories are getting to me.


This is true, but it's still the lesser of 2 evils at this present time. VOS and Roberte and are also trying to educate the folks that need it not just get the "stuff working" in any way possible. It's very likely many would just leave it this way because it was working.

The OP certainly needs to go back to DirecTV regardless.

Horror stories or not....VOS and Roberte deserve more respect than your previous post (2 up) showed. Thank you for acknowledging it in your last.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Obviously, if this was an MRV upgrade, it definitely was not done correctly. DirecTV should be contacted and a tech should be sent back out to correct itat no cost to the customer.

If DirecTV is not going to do this, an e-mail to Ellen Filipiak <[email protected]>, VP of customer service, is probably needed and will usually take care of the issue.

- Merg


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> and when second guy gets there and sees unsupported hookup what will happen?
> think the blame won't go towards customer?


The second guy will think the first guy was an idiot, and wonder why it works


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## rleffler (Mar 21, 2007)

I had the installer from hell this afternoon. Actually, he was a nice guy, just very clueless to DECAs. After six hours, I was told that he couldn't troubleshoot it any longer and had other customers to service and left.

Needless to say, I called Directv to complain. The CSR I spoke to was appalled at the fact the tech just left. I had the manager of the installation company call a few minutes later. He was just going to have the tech return to finish the job. I had to remind him that the tech was unable to complete the job and left.

When the installer called I asked about a SWiM 16 and was told he was bringing one. He brought two SWiM8s with a Dual SWM Expander. He kept claiming it was a SWiM16.

The DECAs aren't seeing each other, so I suspect it's a switch. I also have one DECA on a HR20-100 that won't light up. You can move it to another unit and all three lights come on.

The question I do have is how are the DVRs addressed when using the typical DECA cloud? I thought that they would just use DHCP to request an address. Mine are getting a 169 private subnet, but also can't see the broadband DECA. I suspect that is because they can't see the DHCP server and the Internet. I even went so far as enter static addresses that I used previously to no avail.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

rleffler said:


> When the installer called I asked about a SWiM 16 and was told he was bringing one. He brought two SWiM8s with a Dual SWM Expander. He kept claiming it was a SWiM16.
> 
> The DECAs aren't seeing each other, so I suspect it's a switch. I also have one DECA on a HR20-100 that won't light up. You can move it to another unit and all three lights come on.
> 
> The question I do have is how are the DVRs addressed when using the typical DECA cloud? I thought that they would just use DHCP to request an address. Mine are getting a 169 private subnet, but also can't see the broadband DECA. I suspect that is because they can't see the DHCP server and the Internet. I even went so far as enter static addresses that I used previously to no avail.


You need a SWM 16 before anything else. Two SWM8s don't work.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

rleffler said:


> I had the installer from hell this afternoon. Actually, he was a nice guy, just very clueless to DECAs. After six hours, I was told that he couldn't troubleshoot it any longer and had other customers to service and left.
> 
> Needless to say, I called Directv to complain. The CSR I spoke to was appalled at the fact the tech just left. I had the manager of the installation company call a few minutes later. He was just going to have the tech return to finish the job. I had to remind him that the tech was unable to complete the job and left.
> 
> ...


Any receiver based off of one SWiM8 will not see those off of the other SWiM8, hence why you do need a SWiM16.

The HR20 might not have been working correct as there is an issue with them powering the DECA. You most likely needed a PI to run that DECA. I assume that the other receiver you then hooked it up to was not a HR20.

As for network addressing, if the DECA cloud is correctly bridged to your local network, DHCP addressing will work. If the DECA cloud is not bridged, then you need to assign the IP addresses manually.

- Merg


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