# Woe is me. Installer



## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Greetings, 

I installed for DirecTV for about two years some three years ago. I got back into the business about four months ago. I invested thousands and bought a work truck I can’t stand. I re-trained myself with materials and videos provided by DirecTV, as well as reading many forums such as this one. 

Company One: JP&D (Austin) 

The pay was acceptable and the work seemed fair. (Install to upgrade ratio) So I jumped back in with enthusiasm. Three weeks into the job JP&D cuts all routes. “All techs must be certified for the KA/KU dish”. Fine, I understood this. It took them nine days to get the training together. Finally the techs are updated and certified. Two days after that the shop shuts down. I wasn’t paid for three weeks and I am still owed at least $500.00 

Company Two: Texas Custom Installations (Fort Worth) Bobby Wilson (Owner)

The pay was a little less and the work, well it was work. I worked with this company for about one and a half months. I quickly realized that I was spending $20 to $30 a day in gas for 80% upgrades and %20 installs. Upgrades are, 90% of the time, double the work and more than half the pay. I politely asked for more installs and was yelled at for making such a request! Given the amount of money I have put into getting back into this business, the amount of time I put into self training, the fact that I dry clean my uniforms and I speak proper English, I quickly decided I was not going to work for someone who was going to yell at my like I was his four year old. I respectfully resigned my position with his company January 2nd. and turned in all respective paperwork. Here it is January 19, 2008 and I have yet to receive the majority of my pay. I called today to see about the $943.00 he owes me and he acted as if he had never heard of me. While working for him I had to practically beg for my pay. Now, it looks like I have to put Mechanics Liens on my customer’s homes. 

In closing, I am extremely disappointed with how business is conducted on the installation side of DirecTV. So much is expected of us, and there is so little appreciation for us. 

Before I go through the trouble of Mechanic Liens, what can a guy like me do to get paid?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Small claims court?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm not sure about the Mechanics Liens. You did the work on the request of the company, not directly by the homeowner. And the homeowner is not paying the install company. They are paying DirecTV (sorta/maybe, unless free install) Wouldn't you want to contact your local Labor Dept.?

I'm sorry you're getting jerked around btw. That is no way to be treated and I hope it works out for you.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

If the contractor does not get paid by the builder, the contractor can put a lien on the property. In Florida anyway.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

You need to go to the labor board.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

As it is in VA. However, The homeowner is not paying the install company nor directly contracting w/ the install company.. I'm sure the home owners would then turn to DirecTV.

I don't think this is the same situation as builder/contractor scenario.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I don't know for sure either, but the poor guy should be paid.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

davring said:


> I don't know for sure either, but the poor guy should be paid.


I agree...he should absolutley be paid. I would like to see someone chime in on the lien question. Because I'm not sure either.


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## HDTVFreak07 (Sep 12, 2007)

Small claims court is the way to go. You SHOULD get paid for the work you did.


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## 248 F1 (Sep 22, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> Greetings,
> I respectfully resigned my position with his company January 2nd. and turned in all respective paperwork. Here it is January 19, 2008 and I have yet to receive the majority of my pay.
> 
> Before I go through the trouble of Mechanic Liens, what can a guy like me do to get paid?


There is probably a big difference in the relevance of the law depending if you worked FOR them or if you were CONTRACTED by them. Either way I'd spend some time reading the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/flsa/
or contact a labor attorney familiar with the act. Depending on your situation you may be entitled to more than you think. They CANNOT withhold your pay.

_Employers are not required by federal law to give former employees their final paycheck immediately. Some states, however, may require immediate payment. *If the regular payday for the last pay period an employee worked has passed and the employee has not been paid,* contact the U.S. Department of Labor Employment Standards Administration's Wage and Hour Division or the appropriate state labor department.
_
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/index.htm


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## HDTVFreak07 (Sep 12, 2007)

Take him to Judge Judy. I'd love to see you on TV winning the money you are owed.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

HDTVFreak07 said:


> Take him to Judge Judy. I'd love to see you on TV winning the money you are owed.


LOL!!! Thank you for bringing some humor to this deplorable situation.

I've done the research and a mechanics lien is the way for me to go as a contractor. I do not want to take this approach as it gets more people involved than need to be.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

You have all the kudos in the world from me - I could never do your job.

I hope restitution and resolution both come soon!!


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## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

The lien idea will work in some states and not in others. It gets their attention though.

This week I received a letter from my lawyer stating that he had......for one third of my money......seized the bank account of last year's installation company. Tonight I write after visiting the local cops to swear a warrant for this year's installation company..one check bounced & two are not present.

All the companies I worked for that paid on time and in correct amounts are no longer doing work for DTV. The scum still are.

Joe


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

davring said:


> If the contractor does not get paid by the builder, the contractor can put a lien on the property. In Florida anyway.


There's a bit more to it than that though.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I installed for DirecTV for about two years some three years ago. I got back into the business about four months ago. I invested thousands and bought a work truck I can't stand. I re-trained myself with materials and videos provided by DirecTV, as well as reading many forums such as this one.
> 
> ...


So what about going out on your own? You have a truck, you have the training? I know it's not a solution to your immediate problem...but you may want to consider it.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ken S said:


> So what about going out on your own? You have a truck, you have the training? I know it's not a solution to your immediate problem...but you may want to consider it.


ya custom work could pay nicely now that HD and Dvr installs are 99
make a deal with local retailers?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

davring said:


> If the contractor does not get paid by the builder, the contractor can put a lien on the property. In Florida anyway.


Oh...In VA., If the General Contractor/Builder has been paid in full and they have signed a lien waiver stating all of his subs have been paid or provides proof they have, then the property owner/building owner can not have a lien placed on the property. It will expire in 6 months regardless. The proerty owner basically doesn't have to pay twice so to speak.


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## Annihilator31 (Nov 21, 2006)

There are so many installers getting ripped off by contracting companies and there seams to be very little you can do about it. Interlink Communications has been in bussiness for a while and Rick Wheeler is a thief! He's not the only one though, lots of people get into this business, make a ton of money and then dissapear and all your left with is a worthless check. I took o company called SWAN communication to court over a matter of $1200.00 He never showed and I was awared the money. The problem is that he then moved and I couldn't find him. He owes a few other techs too, but he also filed bankruptcy on all of us (I was told) Basically we all got screwed and he rode of into the virginia sunset with his BMW top down!


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I had the same situation. Small claims is the first route to take. If they do not pay the judgment then file liens against the properties. Filing liens is more expensive and you may not collect until the property is sold.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Ken S said:


> So what about going out on your own? You have a truck, you have the training? I know it's not a solution to your immediate problem...but you may want to consider it.


Going out on my own is the ultimate goal. For the time being while I continue to invest, getting paid would be nice. I really want to deal and install dtv independently. 
I'm at least six months away from being able to do so.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

There is always a need for custom installers, especially multidish solutions for LOS problems, that install companies won't touch..


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

In Texas it is Justice of the Peace court and with the laws here you are pretty much out of luck.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Cantrellswire, I know all too well about how you feel. Stars & Stripes out of Belmont, MS owe me $1200 from almost a year ago. The owners are Chester & Nickie Marsh (Nickie Ford).

That's not to mention all the NSF fees that I had to pay my bank when I was contracting with them, because they couldn't seem to pay on time (every other week my check would supposedly get lost in the mail, and they never would supply a tracking number even though they took money out of my check to UPS overnight it). You'd think that a company that holds back *THREE WEEKS *and pays on the fourth would be able to pay on time.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

BNUMM said:


> I had the same situation. Small claims is the first route to take. If they do not pay the judgment then file liens against the properties. Filing liens is more expensive and you may not collect until the property is sold.


At least in California a Mechanics Lien has a bit more bite. Once filed, the contractor can force foreclosure proceedings to get his money.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm still struggling w/ the fact the homeowner is the one getting the lien filed on there property. In this case the homeowner did not contract directly w/ the Installer company or the installer/contractor, on paper or verbally. The homeowner just called DirecTV. It would seem that DirecTV would be on the hook for this.

I'm not a laywer so maybe I'm just ignorant to this. What if the paper delivery person didn't get paid by the local newspaper ownership. If the newspaper subscriber paid the newspaper provider/company, then does that mean the delivery person can still file a lien against the subscriber if the delivery person didn't get paid?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Every state has different laws on mechanics liens. Some can be quite liberal in favor of the subcontractors...others the opposite. The subs have to be very careful about mechanics liens in some states as improperly putting a lien on someone's home can lead to a very nasty lawsuit.

In Florida the homeowner must be given notice beforehand that services are being performed by a subcontractor on their property and that non-payment by the contractor could lead to a mechanics lien.

But...if you do own property and have a general contractor doing work it's important to make sure your contract indemnifies you against these situations.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I would check with local laws in my state withholding wages is a criminal offense.
One company i worked for went belly up and we took him to court and was ordered
to pay or go to jail.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

In VA, your recourse would be to take the company to small claims court. If you win in small claims and they still do not pay, you would then file a mechanic's lien against the company using the small claims court decision as your proof. At this point the homeowner is out of the loop.

In small claims court, you would show that the check you received bounced and if possible try to show proof of hours worked for the company, such as copies of tickets for jobs you performed. If they claim you were paid, they would need to try to show copies of canceled checks, which they of course would not be able to do.

Good luck,
Merg


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

elaclair said:


> At least in California a Mechanics Lien has a bit more bite. Once filed, the contractor can force foreclosure proceedings to get his money.


That may be possible here but filing a lien would require a fee for each piece of property and you would probably have to send a certified letter to each property owner and demand payment before filing the lien. I recommend the "Small Claims Court" (or equivalent) process first because it is less costly and easier to win. Also, if they do not pay the judgment the court will assist in the collection (at least in Michigan).


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> In closing, I am extremely disappointed with how business is conducted on the installation side of DirecTV. So much is expected of us, and there is so little appreciation for us.


Ditto ! After three years of being told we will be getting better pay the work load nearly doubles and the pay goes down especially when doing upgrade work.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

It is pretty scary that if DirecTV offers me free installation, then I can end up with a lien on my house because either DirecTV or their installation company did not pay the subcontractor they selected. 

I feel sorry for the original poster, but placing a lien on houses hardly seems fair or equitable. The homeowners aren't the ones stealing from the OP, nor do they have the capability to make sure that the OP gets paid.


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## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

I would stay away from putting a lien on the homeowners. If you put a lien on my house, I would come after you, you better have all your paper work proving I signed something saying you didn't work for Directv and you were a subcontractor. If I won, I would also want all court and lawyer fees paid by you, plus wage losses for missing work.

I know you want to get paid, but save that as the last resort as you open yourself to losing more money.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

prushing said:


> I would stay away from putting a lien on the homeowners. If you put a lien on my house, I would come after you, you better have all your paper work proving I signed something saying you didn't work for Directv and you were a subcontractor. If I won, I would also want all court and lawyer fees paid by you, plus wage losses for missing work.
> 
> I know you want to get paid, but save that as the last resort as you open yourself to losing more money.


I think this is getting a bit out of hand :backtotop and there is some inaccurate info here. most installers (the people that do the actual install work) have no argument with the home owner (The customer) but rather with the company (contracter or sub contracter) that they work for.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

248 F1 said:


> They CANNOT withhold your pay.


Obviously they CAN. The regulation or law must say MAY NOT.

I realize this sounds picky, but there is a vast difference between "can" and "may".

The OP has to get paid, no? Never had this happen to me, can't offer any advice. Would this not fall into some category of theft? In the town I live in we have safeguards and protocols for dealing with contractors that do not fulfill their obligations. But withholding of salary? I do know that in NJ you have to be paid at the proper time for work performed.

I have to read that link you posted. Please don't be offended by my "can" and "may" critique.

Rich


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## Elephanthead (Feb 3, 2007)

normally to have an enforcable lein you need to have a contract with the homeowner, or you don't have privity. You cna fill a lein, but the homeowner can get it removed and be awarded damages from you for filing an improper lein. All of this depends upon the state, file away, the judge will tell you what you owe when your done. Definately sue the install company you worked for though.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I'm still struggling w/ the fact the homeowner is the one getting the lien filed on there property. In this case the homeowner did not contract directly w/ the Installer company or the installer/contractor, on paper or verbally. The homeowner just called DirecTV. It would seem that DirecTV would be on the hook for this.
> 
> I'm not a laywer so maybe I'm just ignorant to this. What if the paper delivery person didn't get paid by the local newspaper ownership. If the newspaper subscriber paid the newspaper provider/company, then does that mean the delivery person can still file a lien against the subscriber if the delivery person didn't get paid?


You're right, I think. I don't see how you could put a lien on a property if your contract was with an installation company rather than the property owner. The subcontractor has to go after the contractor for his pay in NJ and that doesn't affect the property owner unless he is the contractor.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gfrang said:


> I would check with local laws in my state withholding wages is a criminal offense.
> One company i worked for went belly up and we took him to court and was ordered
> to pay or go to jail.


Theft of some sort, no?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The Merg said:


> In VA, your recourse would be to take the company to small claims court. If you win in small claims and they still do not pay, you would then file a mechanic's lien against the company using the small claims court decision as your proof. At this point the homeowner is out of the loop.
> 
> In small claims court, you would show that the check you received bounced and if possible try to show proof of hours worked for the company, such as copies of tickets for jobs you performed. If they claim you were paid, they would need to try to show copies of canceled checks, which they of course would not be able to do.
> 
> ...


Well said! That makes sense.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Elephanthead said:


> privity.


Good word! Had to look it up and found this:

_*Privity *_of contract is the relationship that exists between two or more parties to an agreement.

Since the homeowner has no contractual relationship to the subcontractor, I guess the OP would have to go after the contractor, or am I reading that wrong?

Rich


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Interesting thread.

I was going to go to Harvard Law School. But I decided to read DBSTalk.com instead.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I was going to go to Harvard Law School. But I decided to read DBSTalk.com instead.


I went to Harvard, (Did not attend school there, but I did walk around on campus)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I was going to go to Harvard Law School. But I decided to read DBSTalk.com instead.


Bet you had no idea what "privity" meant. I didn't. Never even heard of the word. Huge learning experience. Made my day.

Rich


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## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Good word! Had to look it up and found this:
> 
> _*Privity *_of contract is the relationship that exists between two or more parties to an agreement.
> 
> ...


Right, the way Directv does it, you have no way to pick installers or price. You don't determine how much the installer gets paid. You only enter into a contract with Directv to pay them the install price, the rest is out of your hands. Depending on how the owner set the company up, you can put a lien on their house, go after assets, etc but you would have to find them. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone unless they have a bunch of fake ids to get credit cards.

Does the car have GPS? I bet the cops could get the vin# from the registration go to the manufacturer and track the car down. Also, I bet they take it back to a dealership for service and they could find it that way.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm always interested in the many opinions offered on on-line forums. I'm also annoyed at the many people who like to waste time here too. A lien is merely the last option, and is more a threat towards the contractor I worked under. BOBBY WILSON! I don't have the time or energy to go through all that, but if I sent out certified affidavits with his number, mastecs number and mine I would have a few more people on my side to get this ******* to pay me. Every one of my customers would remember me and without a doubt contact that jerk and tell him to pay me.

I have filed with the Texas Labor Department and am in the process of filing with Small Claims.

Here is some fun reading. Click


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

prushing said:


> Right, the way Directv does it, you have no way to pick installers or price. You don't determine how much the installer gets paid. You only enter into a contract with Directv to pay them the install price, the rest is out of your hands. Depending on how the owner set the company up, you can put a lien on their house, go after assets, etc but you would have to find them. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone unless they have a bunch of fake ids to get credit cards.
> 
> Does the car have GPS? I bet the cops could get the vin# from the registration go to the manufacturer and track the car down. Also, I bet they take it back to a dealership for service and they could find it that way.


What?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

cantrellswire said:


> I'm always interested in the many opinions offered on on-line forums. I'm also annoyed at the many people who like to waste time here too. A lien is merely the last option, and is more a threat towards the contractor I worked under. BOBBY WILSON! I don't have the time or energy to go through all that, but if I sent out certified affidavits with his number, mastecs number and mine I would have a few more people on my side to get this ******* to pay me. Every one of my customers would remember me and without a doubt contact that jerk and tell him to pay me.
> 
> I have filed with the Texas Labor Department and am in the process of filing with Small Claims.
> 
> Here is some fun reading. Click


I think most of us if not all are on your side w/ this. Good Luck getting paid. Hopefully the homeowner will be on your side and not pitch a fit. To be a "glass is half empty" guy, your approach could backfire to a certain degree, as far as liens go.

If i was approached to provide something stating you performed the work w/ no issues, i would be glad to help. If you filed a lien on my property out of the blue, I'd be pissed.

Again, good luck


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

cantrellswire said:


> I'm always interested in the many opinions offered on on-line forums. I'm also annoyed at the many people who like to waste time here too. A lien is merely the last option, and is more a threat towards the contractor I worked under. BOBBY WILSON! I don't have the time or energy to go through all that, but if I sent out certified affidavits with his number, mastecs number and mine I would have a few more people on my side to get this ******* to pay me. Every one of my customers would remember me and without a doubt contact that jerk and tell him to pay me.
> 
> I have filed with the Texas Labor Department and am in the process of filing with Small Claims.
> 
> Here is some fun reading. Click


In most states the mechanic's lien is similar to the one in Texas. If someone (the "tradesman") makes an improvement to your house, and does not get paid for it, regardless of the number of contractors, subcontractors and so on that may be involved, and regardless of whether the homeowner has a contractual relationship with the company for who the tradesman is working, he has a right to go after the homeowner to get paid. People may be surprised or shocked at this but it is the law. So if you have a house built, and you pay the contractor, and he does not pay his workpeople or subcontractors, they can go after you as the homeowner. Ouch!!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Ouch.....I guess the property owners need to get releases signed everytime any work/improvements are done. :eek2: 

I don't know if VA. works that way or not.


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## eandras (Feb 16, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I'm still struggling w/ the fact the homeowner is the one getting the lien filed on there property. In this case the homeowner did not contract directly w/ the Installer company or the installer/contractor, on paper or verbally. The homeowner just called DirecTV. It would seem that DirecTV would be on the hook for this.
> 
> I'm not a laywer so maybe I'm just ignorant to this. What if the paper delivery person didn't get paid by the local newspaper ownership. If the newspaper subscriber paid the newspaper provider/company, then does that mean the delivery person can still file a lien against the subscriber if the delivery person didn't get paid?


In answer to your question Yes. Even though tthe homeowner contracted with Directv and Directv made an arrangement with the HSP The homeowner got the service. It is like when the contractor orders windows fo ryour house and you pay him but he doesn't pay the supplier the supplier files a lien against the homeowner who in turn would have to sue the home contractor to get reimbursed. It really sucks but who ever has the property has the responsibilty as they got the gain.


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## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

It shouldn't be this hard.
DTV offers a good product. Customers want the product. Installers offer their services to install the equipment. 

Nobody wants to take responsibility for the actions of the installer or the entity disbursing the work and paying for it.

Joe


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I think most of us if not all are on your side w/ this. Good Luck getting paid. Hopefully the homeowner will be on your side and not pitch a fit. To be a "glass is half empty" guy, your approach could backfire to a certain degree, as far as liens go.
> 
> If i was approached to provide something stating you performed the work w/ no issues, i would be glad to help. If you filed a lien on my property out of the blue, I'd be pissed.
> 
> Again, good luck


I believe if you check your state's laws you will find that they must inform you before they file the lien (usually by certified mail).


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## jbraden (Mar 23, 2004)

It wouldn't hurt for the OP to contact the Texas Attorney General's office. Non-payment of wages is a violation of both federal and state law. The federal statute is:

U.S.C. § 216(b); 29 C.F.R. § 579.1.

The Fair Labor Standards Act levies a $1,000 penalty only against employers who “repeatedly or wilfully” violate the federal minimum wage law and allows the employee to recover double damages if the employer knew that the failure to pay wages violated the law. The FLSA has been interpreted to require timely payment of wages, which certainly hasn't been the case for the OP.

The Texas law is:

Tex. Lab. Code
§ 61.053 (not paying wages as required);
§ 61.019 (felony)

For failure to pay min. wage, Employer is liable to employee for amount + liquidated damages. If Employer acted in bad faith in not paying wages as required (in time, etc.), commission may assess admin. penalty in amount of wages claimed or $1,000, whichever is less. If Employer at time of hiring intends to avoid payment of wages and fails to pay them upon demand, Employer commits felony of third degree

Best of luck recovering the wages due you.


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

I have a broader question: When will DirecTV, whose front line reputation with comsumers is at stake, show some corporate leadership here and take care of the people that ensure their survival. It is a serious dissapointment to me that over the last few years of watching this forum I see endless issues with both incompetent installations and dis-honest installation companies. It is time for DirecTV to step up to the plate and make a serious investment in making the good guys whole, and getting the frauds out of the business. Shame on D* for not having a sufficient management process to qualify and contract with well managed, honest and honorable suppliers. Further shame on them for not paying more fair rates, and finally, for not applying a quality management process that ensure continuous improvement on their installation business. 

And I accept the fair criticism that what we see in this forum is mostly the problems, and that some large percentage of installation relationships are flawless, but even if the problem space is 10%, and I think it is much higher, this is a strategic failing of D*'s business model to not address and correct. Front line service is THE most common complaint by consumers of all utility and entertainment providers, and this is an area way too often ignored by major providers for whatever reason. The grass is green now, it could turn brown in an instant.:nono: 

The guy who started this thread is getting screwed, not just by his former employers, but by a corporation that is blind to the problem and a willing partner in the crimes, by enabling an infrastructure that makes this happen over and over again. My approach would be to embrace the individual installers, make them whole, and prosecute the dis-honest contractors in the middle with my army of well paid corporate attorneys. See six corporate D* suits in district courts around the US vigorously prosecuting installation fraud on behalf of the workers & customers and the whole situation would change in a matter of weeks, not years. :eek2: 

That's my 2cents.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

It isn't just D*. E* has the same problem and many other companies that contract out installations.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

satwood said:


> I have a broader question: When will DirecTV, whose front line reputation with comsumers is at stake, show some corporate leadership here and take care of the people that ensure their survival. It is a serious dissapointment to me that over the last few years of watching this forum I see endless issues with both incompetent installations and dis-honest installation companies. It is time for DirecTV to step up to the plate and make a serious investment in making the good guys whole, and getting the frauds out of the business. Shame on D* for not having a sufficient management process to qualify and contract with well managed, honest and honorable suppliers. Further shame on them for not paying more fair rates, and finally, for not applying a quality management process that ensure continuous improvement on their installation business.
> 
> And I accept the fair criticism that what we see in this forum is mostly the problems, and that some large percentage of installation relationships are flawless, but even if the problem space is 10%, and I think it is much higher, this is a strategic failing of D*'s business model to not address and correct. Front line service is THE most common complaint by consumers of all utility and entertainment providers, and this is an area way too often ignored by major providers for whatever reason. The grass is green now, it could turn brown in an instant.:nono:
> 
> ...


:bowdown: :joy:

Words cannot express my gratitude for what you've said.

Thank you.

Blake.


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

cantrellswire said:


> :bowdown: :joy:
> 
> Words cannot express my gratitude for what you've said.
> 
> ...


Feel free to send it anywhere or repost it anywhere you like. It's been my opinion for a long time now and I want people to hear it. I hope it can help you...


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## Wiseman (Oct 19, 2007)

I am the owner of JP&D and we have paid every installer that works for us. We have not received any claims of techs not being paid. If you will submit to me your information, i would be more than happy to check your invoices to verify that you have been paid in full. As for being pulled out with no notice, we were exited from that Market by Directv because we were only there as an AFS for a short time. I have no knowlege of your other claim as i do not know a Bobby Wilson or Texas Custom Installations. Please send your contact info and Invoice information to [email protected]



cantrellswire said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I installed for DirecTV for about two years some three years ago. I got back into the business about four months ago. I invested thousands and bought a work truck I can't stand. I re-trained myself with materials and videos provided by DirecTV, as well as reading many forums such as this one.
> 
> ...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Wiseman said:


> I am the owner of JP&D and we have paid every installer that works for us. We have not received any claims of techs not being paid. If you will submit to me your information, i would be more than happy to check your invoices to verify that you have been paid in full. As for being pulled out with no notice, we were exited from that Market by Directv because we were only there as an AFS for a short time. I have no knowlege of your other claim as i do not know a Bobby Wilson or Texas Custom Installations. Please send your contact info and Invoice information to [email protected]


Sounds like we shall see an honorable end to this. And "Wiseman" sounds like an honorable man. Be great if this thread on this forum was responsible for the resolution of the original problem.

Rich :icon_kiff


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## w6fxj (Aug 10, 2005)

jbraden said:


> It wouldn't hurt for the OP to contact the Texas Attorney General's office. Non-payment of wages is a violation of both federal and state law. The federal statute is:
> 
> U.S.C. § 216(b); 29 C.F.R. § 579.1.
> 
> ...


Jbraden - The OP is an "Independant Contractor" who does NOT get paid wages! He was supposted to be paid by the Job, not by the hour. That lets the DirecTV installation contractor off the hook for paying FICA, Overtime, Unemployment Insurance and is NOT reposnsible to provide tools or equipment or even a work vehicle for the "Independant Contractor. Look that up in the USC.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

w6fxj said:


> Jbraden - The OP is an "Independant Contractor" who does NOT get paid wages! He was supposted to be paid by the Job, not by the hour. That lets the DirecTV installation contractor off the hook for paying FICA, Overtime, Unemployment Insurance and is NOT reposnsible to provide tools or equipment or even a work vehicle for the "Independant Contractor. Look that up in the USC.


I taught classes at a local college as a "consultant". You are right. This might be a different case. I paid no taxes, no FICA, just got a straight salary and had to watch the taxes myself. Signed a different contract for each course. Hadn't thought of that. Good call.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

So, what happened? I hope either the OP or the owner of the company he is having the dispute with tells us the outcome of this whole thing. I hate to be left dangling. 

Rich :icon_kiff


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

eandras said:


> In answer to your question Yes. Even though tthe homeowner contracted with Directv and Directv made an arrangement with the HSP The homeowner got the service. It is like when the contractor orders windows fo ryour house and you pay him but he doesn't pay the supplier the supplier files a lien against the homeowner who in turn would have to sue the home contractor to get reimbursed. It really sucks but who ever has the property has the responsibilty as they got the gain.


Hey there, I live in Piscataway. Are we, as homeowners, really responsible if an independent contractor does work on our dwellings as a subcontractor and the contractor doesn't pay him?

I know how contractors are dealt with in industry in NJ, but it never dawned on me that the law would be different for homeowners. Doesn't D* also "gain" from the installation?

I hope you're wrong, no offense meant. I have a lot of contractors that I use at home, but D* and carpet installers, delivery people and the odd appliance repairman and oh boy, this is worse than I thought. Wouldn't that be "self incrimination"?

Please tell me you're not a lawyer! ("Not that there's anything wrong with that."

I gotta Google this.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

So I Googled it. Just got links to lawyers. Any labor lawyers in NJ out there?

Rich



rich584 said:


> I gotta Google this.
> 
> Rich


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## shocky (Oct 23, 2007)

davring said:


> If the contractor does not get paid by the builder, the contractor can put a lien on the property. In Florida anyway.


A builder acts as a proxy for the homeowner and thus the contractor can put a lien property.

This isn't the same situation.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Update. I was very pleased to see the Owner of JP&D Chime in. I've reviewed my invoices and I was paid. I still have not heard anything from Booby Wilson of Texas Custom installations. His voice mail is full and he is not taking calls. I'm having to sue him. 

I'm working with a new company and they have been keeping me very busy. I've been super pleased with the work and I'm doing very well. 

I'll keep this thread updated until I get paid or give up.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

I am glad to hear that at least SOME headway has been made!


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## jbraden (Mar 23, 2004)

w6fxj said:


> The OP is an "Independant Contractor" who does NOT get paid wages! He was supposed to be paid by the Job, not by the hour.


In that case, you are correct. Everything depends on the contractual agreement between the two parties, and a lawsuit (or binding arbitration if both parties agree) would be needed to get relief.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Update! 

WOW! I submitted this forum to both DirecTV and Mastec (Advanced Technologies) last night and this afternoon I received a call from the Contract Supervisor from Mastec. He has asked me to come in an produce my invoices for payment. I have all paperwork ready and I'll be going in tomorrow. It's amazing what you can accomplish through the internet and with forums like this. If I actually get paid I owe a great debt of gratitude to you all. 

Blake Cantrell.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

That's outstanding. Good news to hear.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> Update!
> WOW! I submitted this forum to both DirecTV and Mastec


How did you do that? Send a link? One thing I've learned over the years is that companies don't like to see negative reports in print.

Hope everything works out for you. Please let us know what else happens. Very informative (and perhaps, a little scary) thread you started.

Rich


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Yea...i wish we were able to get some concrete answers. I know this would differ from state to state. But I still don't see how the homeowner gets pulled into this. Other than proving they are paying there bills to DirecTV. 

I'm not sure construction analogies really are the same here. The homeowner had no agreement w/ the Install company or the istaller. It was w/ DirecTV. I'm hard headed sometimes, so maybe it's just me. Although, I wonder what the fine print is on the work orders that get signed.

Either way, hope it works out for the OP.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

The homeowner contracts with D* or E* and D* or E* contracts with someone to install the equipment. The installer makes an improvement (and satellite service) to the property. That is all that is required.


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## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

I have seen the lien idea kicked around for years. I am pretty sure the installers do not really want to drag the homeowner into court or even get paid by the homeowner. The idea is to get DTV to shake the tree from their end.

Joe


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

joe diamond said:


> I have seen the lien idea kicked around for years. I am pretty sure the installers do not really want to drag the homeowner into court or even get paid by the homeowner. The idea is to get DTV to shake the tree from their end.
> 
> Joe


Exactly.

I have no problems with my customers. Even the ones who are rude sometime. Trust me, I know their frustrations. A lien was a last resort.

Mastec (Advanced Technologies) Has stepped up and is taking care of me. I should see a check in about 6 weeks. Money in the bank. They'll be taking the money out of TCI's hold back. :-D I'll keep this thread updated.

I want to thank everyone so much for their support. This site and it's visitors are incredible.

I'm so excited to continue installing for DirecTV and I'm so glad they are taking care of me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Yea...i wish we were able to get some concrete answers. I know this would differ from state to state. But I still don't see how the homeowner gets pulled into this. Other than proving they are paying there bills to DirecTV.
> 
> I'm not sure construction analogies really are the same here. The homeowner had no agreement w/ the Install company or the istaller. It was w/ DirecTV. I'm hard headed sometimes, so maybe it's just me. Although, I wonder what the fine print is on the work orders that get signed.
> 
> Either way, hope it works out for the OP.


Agree with you, I do about the homeowner etc. I should have a contractor here today or Monday and I'll ask him how it works. He uses subs a lot.

Rich


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

The problem w/ the construction analogy is the fact the home owner has had an opportunity to discuss the terms and conditions w/ the general contractor or sub. As far as the homeowner is comcerned it is free thru DirecTV or what is it 99dollars now. How does the homeowner know what the fee is that the installer is being paid. At that point does the installer get to make it up (That doesn't apply to the OP). How would the average homeowner know what the fees are being paid to the installer are unless there is custom work being done and would then been discussed w/ the homeowner.

I don't know, maybe I'm way off on this.


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Well, it's been five weeks now and I've been sitting back quietly awaiting my check to arrive in the mail. I wrote Advanced Technologies (Mastec) three days ago asking for an update and I've received no contact back. I've tried to call the gentlemen I spoke with and he does not answer and his voicemail is full. I'm going to give it one more week and I am going to continue filing. I can't believe the bs I have to go through to get paid. 

Also, I'm working with a new company who for the most part has been pretty great to me. However, I was recently charged $380 for a "Lost" receiver that was installed 2 days after I returned it! I was not told about this deduction until I got my check. Isn't that illegal? I was never given the opportunity to dispute it.

WTF! DTV! Why can't you take care of your own! WHY DO I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR MY PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear this cantrell, I was hoping it would be a little easier for you than this.

Keep at it.


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## eandras (Feb 16, 2007)

I don't know if you signed a contract or not but if you did there might be a clause about this in that contract. If you don't have a contract you should be notified of the charge as they can not deduct anything out of your paycheck if you are an employee. If you are a contractor it is not considered a paycheck but a paynebt for a service. Again you might have a case for this with the labor department with your state.


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## CrazyforYeshua (Feb 23, 2008)

cantrellswire said:


> Also, I'm working with a new company who for the most part has been pretty great to me. However, I was recently charged $380 for a "Lost" receiver that was installed 2 days after I returned it! I was not told about this deduction until I got my check. Isn't that illegal? I was never given the opportunity to dispute it.
> 
> WTF! DTV! Why can't you take care of your own! WHY DO I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR MY PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 I don't think it's illegal for them to withold it, but they have to prove it isn't accounted for(the receiver).If you can prove it was returned and installed, they have to refund the money to you.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> The problem w/ the construction analogy is the fact the home owner has had an opportunity to discuss the terms and conditions w/ the general contractor or sub. As far as the homeowner is comcerned it is free thru DirecTV or what is it 99dollars now. How does the homeowner know what the fee is that the installer is being paid. At that point does the installer get to make it up (That doesn't apply to the OP). How would the average homeowner know what the fees are being paid to the installer are unless there is custom work being done and would then been discussed w/ the homeowner.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I'm way off on this.


You're not way off. You got it right on the button.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> Well, it's been five weeks now and I've been sitting back quietly awaiting my check to arrive in the mail. I wrote Advanced Technologies (Mastec) three days ago asking for an update and I've received no contact back. I've tried to call the gentlemen I spoke with and he does not answer and his voicemail is full. I'm going to give it one more week and I am going to continue filing. I can't believe the bs I have to go through to get paid.
> 
> Also, I'm working with a new company who for the most part has been pretty great to me. However, I was recently charged $380 for a "Lost" receiver that was installed 2 days after I returned it! I was not told about this deduction until I got my check. Isn't that illegal? I was never given the opportunity to dispute it.
> 
> WTF! DTV! Why can't you take care of your own! WHY DO I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR MY PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You can't believe how much you sound like a friend of mine. Weren't for bad luck he'd have no luck.

Is that job you have now an hourly rate job with benifits or as a subcontractor? Different rules apply.

Rich


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

Well, I finally got paid. However, it has happened again. Another sub contract company under Mastec (Advanced Technologies) is failing to pay. $1,085.00

I'm going to start a new thread with complete details about how Mastec and their subs work. A lot of people who can't fight back are getting screwed including DirecTV customers who don't even have a clue. 

I’m gathering all my data and I will include pictures. I’m going to have a full story on here by the 25th.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

And the plot thickens. We'll be waiting. Glad you at least got paid once.


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## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

cantrellswire said:


> Well, I finally got paid. However, it has happened again. Another sub contract company under Mastec (Advanced Technologies) is failing to pay. $1,085.00
> 
> I'm going to start a new thread with complete details about how Mastec and their subs work. A lot of people who can't fight back are getting screwed including DirecTV customers who don't even have a clue.
> 
> I'm gathering all my data and I will include pictures. I'm going to have a full story on here by the 25th.


The surprise with MASTEC is that they are still around. I concluded that their satellite operation was a small part of a bigger corporation. I have had three contacts with MASTEC subs and none has worked.

Similar story with DirectSatUSA.
Passed on doing it again with Ironwood.

It is like hitting yourself with a hammer. If you stop it feels better.

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Joe


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## tnedutsatu (Apr 13, 2008)

I saw this forum in searching for some kind of leverage to use against my company. I read the OP's thread and I'm sort of going through a similiar scenario. My reply is more geared to people who have been in the field. I currently work with a company in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area who subcontracts through MasTec Advanced Technologies. I've done some custom work that has been processed by credit card. I called into MasTec's dispatch support to give the credit card info and even got a confirmation number for the transaction. It has been over 2 months since I did the jobs, and I still have not seen a dime from the custom work I've done. I got paid for the job...but not the custom work. Everytime I've spoken from someboday at my company and ask them what is going on, they tell me that MasTec has not paid them. "We are waiting for them to pay us, so we can pay you." Does anybody know anyone at MasTec (Ft. Worth, TX) that can help an independent contractor get some information so I can get paid? Maybe verify the company I work with has been paid for those custom charges and they are withholding it from me? Also, I've seen some deductions from my most recent check. For the first time in almost a year, I have three (3) chargebacks. Two of the three are from the same customer. The explanation I was given was that there were 2 service calls generated after I had been out there. That is curious because MasTec has a last man on policy where the last technician out is now responsible for the whole directv system. If there is a problem within 90 days (and the customer calls DirecTV, not the company you work with) of you being out there, then the company incurs a chargeback and they pass the savings on to the independent contractor. If there were in fact 2 service calls, I can only be responsible for it once and thus, charged back only once. Even the whole chargeback is suspect because I called the customer and she stated I was the last man out there...that noone else has been to her house to do a service call. I have asked my company to give me some evidence with respect to the chargebacks and they told me they don't release that information to technicians and that it is only for their records. I'm starting to have some bad feelings about the ethics of my company and DirecTV. I've respectfully wrote my company a letter to give me some evidence about the chargebacks and stated that this is a matter of money and principle. We do all of these tasks to get paid for a job. However, when my company wants to take money from my check, not documents or explanation is required. I'm looking for leverage...just short of a legal remedy right now. Does anyone know where an independent contractor on a 1099 basis can get some help? By the way, I feel for the OP. I've been there...I'm currently there.

Tnedutsatu


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## tnedutsatu (Apr 13, 2008)

Please let us know where that new thread will be about the pictures and stuff. I'm very interested to see where this will end up.

Thanks,

Tnedutsatu


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## woodybeetle (Feb 28, 2008)

joe diamond said:


> The surprise with MASTEC is that they are still around. I concluded that their satellite operation was a small part of a bigger corporation. I have had three contacts with MASTEC subs and none has worked.
> 
> Similar story with DirectSatUSA.
> Passed on doing it again with Ironwood.
> ...


Sorry to hear your pain. I hate to admit it though, Mastec will be around long after we are gone. They are paid well to fulfill the installation contracts for D* and that is it. They do not care about gas prices, copper prices, custom work, leins, or anything else other than profit. This is a capatalist society and Mastec can and does routinely find techs that will work for less, adds new paperworkroutines to try to figure out, weird backcharges etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.
I wish you all the luck in the world, but I offer this advise. Do not work as an installation technician, get more training, go commercial, it will benefit you ion the long run. We havent touched a standard residential install in 4 years. The only residential installs we do are the ones with the 50in plasma, sorround sound, wall fishes, custom wiring.


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## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

woodybeetle said:


> Sorry to hear your pain. I hate to admit it though, Mastec will be around long after we are gone. They are paid well to fulfill the installation contracts for D* and that is it. They do not care about gas prices, copper prices, custom work, leins, or anything else other than profit. This is a capatalist society and Mastec can and does routinely find techs that will work for less, adds new paperworkroutines to try to figure out, weird backcharges etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.
> I wish you all the luck in the world, but I offer this advise. Do not work as an installation technician, get more training, go commercial, it will benefit you ion the long run. We havent touched a standard residential install in 4 years. The only residential installs we do are the ones with the 50in plasma, sorround sound, wall fishes, custom wiring.


Exactly,

I should have jumped sooner.

Joe


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## cantrellswire (Jan 4, 2008)

They got me for $1,085.00 

They're flat out not going to pay. I'm working with a dealer now doing high end installs and HughesNet. I haven't done a service call or upgrade in a month. I was going to go all out and create a website about these losers revealing how they operate but it wouldn’t be anything new. I’m letting this one go. I provide excellent service to my customers. I know where I am going. I don’t have to cheat anyone to make a living. The only thing I’m doing is letting people know about it on local mediums so new techs can’t get screwed.

I provided great work. Laser leveled outlets with cut in wall boxes. No drill and pull outlets. Clean cut professional look. I did all my paperwork properly. I covered other people’s routes when they took off. And they didn’t want me because they couldn’t screw me. They got my last check and that’s all I’ll let them have. I don’t want to waste my time thinking about it anymore. It brings me down and kills my attitude. I’m on to bigger and better things.


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## shearerluck (Apr 15, 2007)

Ive worked for Mastec for a couple of months now. It is the most unorganized company that i have ever seen. First off, dont ever do custom work for Mastec, you wont be paid for it. B, they complain about gas usage in their vehicles, but then have you drive for an hour to watch a video on how to put on a connector. Three, they hire unqualified workers and supervisors that know less than the CSR's

This only applies for the Orlando office, but I can imagine its a nationwide issue also. 

Please D* buy out Mastec (Advanced Technologies) next.:rant:


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## GLJones (Feb 12, 2008)

I had DirecTV installed a couple moths ago in Orlando and the tech was top-notch. 

Jerry


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## hogon41 (Nov 22, 2007)

Its not just in Orlando, the Raleigh office has similar issues.


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