# Is there a way I can get subchannels with DIRECTV?



## max1 (Aug 12, 2005)

Hey, all, i have dish now but am thinking of bundling with century link. I wanted to know. Can you get the subchannels with D with the AM 21 or can i get the Digital converter and hook that up with D. I get the subchannels now with Dish and we have Me-tv it's a must have for me as a subchannel Would welcome any ideas. Max.


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## Crystal Pepsi Ball (Jun 29, 2004)

As long as you get an HDDVR (HR21 or higher) and a AM21 Off-Air Tuner for $50, then you can get OTA Digital channels.


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## HDTVFreak07 (Sep 12, 2007)

Crystal Pepsi Ball said:


> As long as you get an HDDVR (HR21 or higher) and a AM21 Off-Air Tuner for $50, then you can get OTA Digital channels.


Actually, HR20 or higher. With HR20, you would not need an AM-21.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Yes you can as mentioned above. I use an AM21 with my HR22-100's to receive sub-channels and out of markets HD channels. The AM21 allows two markets OTA so if you are close to two markets it's more than worth the cost.

Edit: A standard digital tv converter will not integrate with the HDDVR, the AM21 will and the channels will show up in your guide and be recordable.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

However, the OTA sub-channels will need to be in DirecTV's database as the AM21 does not have the capability to do an actual scan.


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## max1 (Aug 12, 2005)

Ok thanks guys one more thing if i get the am 21 can i still tape the shows off of me-tv with the dvr for example it's 7.2 here in omaha and i get the channel with antenna. Does the channel show up in the guide? it sounds like an easy setup. I think will bundle with century link and d.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Keep in mind that D* is not adding new subchannels. I have an OTA antenna hooked up to an HR20-700, and I'm missing several subchannels because D* can't add them to the guide.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

If you want to see what OTA channels are included in DIRECTV's guide data, checkout this thread.

Use the tutorial to find your market and there's an OTA tab that lists all the available stations in that particular market.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

I have an hr24 on a plasma, an h25 on an older crt tv with no HD tuner, and soon to get an hXX on an analog tv. If I wanted to add an antenna, would I still need an HD set top box for the older HD crt tv, and a digital to analog converter box for the analog tv?


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

max1 said:


> Ok thanks guys one more thing if i get the am 21 can i still tape the shows off of me-tv with the dvr for example it's 7.2 here in omaha and i get the channel with antenna. Does the channel show up in the guide? it sounds like an easy setup. I think will bundle wieth century link and d.


Here is a screen shot of what the integration looks like. The black channels are from the OTA integration. I have it edited to a favorites list, but you get the idea. They are flawless with the DVR and you wouldn't know they're not from Directv if it wasn't for the black background on the guide and the long, stupid names like WRALDT2, and the lack of channel logos in the upper left hand corner on most AM21 channels.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Keep in mind that D* is not adding new subchannels. I have an OTA antenna hooked up to an HR20-700, and I'm missing several subchannels because D* can't add them to the guide.


Yep, we're up to missing 3 right now - two of which ARE MeTV subs.  

And since many of the new MeTV subchannel DMA's have/were just recently added, there's a good chance yours might NOT be in D* (incomplete) database - which then you are SOL at being able to get it thru your D* receiver at all.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

some have speculated the issue is a limitation in the way guide data is processed.


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

To give Directv a little slack, there are over 4000 OTA channels in the data stream!
I too would like the ability to "scan" but we have to deal with what's available.

Doctor j


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

doctor j said:


> To give Directv a little slack, there are over 4000 OTA channels in the data stream!
> I too would like the ability to "scan" but we have to deal with what's available.
> 
> Doctor j


I'd give DIRECTV a little slack if I felt they deserved it here. But this is a problem of their own making by going against all manner of commonsense in not allowing for OTA scanning in their design, they've created this oversized inaccurate database debacle of an off-air system.


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I'd give DIRECTV a little slack if I felt they deserved it here. But this is a problem of their own making by going against all manner of commonsense in not allowing for OTA scanning in their design, they've created this oversized inaccurate database debacle of an off-air system.


I agree with this.
However i realize Directv is under no obligation to provide any OTA functionality.

Doctor j


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

I agree doctor j on this. I am also a little surprised that people get that upset about not having scanning. I am thrilled that I can get another major market in HD where I live. My local cable company offers some of the Chicago locals here but only in SD(My market is Milwaukee, WI), no subchannels from Chicago and a lot of Chicago blackouts. With DIRECTV I can get the HD channels, the subchannels and no blackouts all incorporated in my guide with the ability to record. It's great.

Scanning would be nice but I am very happy with what I have.


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## Barcthespark (Dec 16, 2007)

Scott Kocourek said:


> I agree doctor j on this. I am also a little surprised that people get that upset about not having scanning. I am thrilled that I can get another major market in HD where I live. My local cable company offers some of the Chicago locals here but only in SD(My market is Milwaukee, WI), no subchannels from Chicago and a lot of Chicago blackouts. With DIRECTV I can get the HD channels, the subchannels and no blackouts all incorporated in my guide with the ability to record. It's great.
> 
> Scanning would be nice but I am very happy with what I have.


In my area I cannot get 3 or 4 of the subchannels. Unfortunately not all of us have it quite as good as you.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

doctor j said:


> However i realize Directv is under no obligation to provide any OTA functionality.


If they're selling the tuner, it seems reasonable to expect that it will work. "Oh well" is not a satisfactory answer; especially when the channels in question are typically ones that DIRECTV has "failed" to otherwise provide.


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

If they allowed scanning, then we would start seeing threads pop up about how some channels have no guide information.

Kevin


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Kevin F said:


> If they allowed scanning, then we would start seeing threads pop up about how some channels have no guide information.
> 
> Kevin


But I would bet the people starting those threads would quickly back down when they were told that it is either allowing scanning and not having guide information for those channels, or not being able to access those channels at all.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Kevin F said:


> If they allowed scanning, then we would start seeing threads pop up about how some channels have no guide information.
> 
> Kevin


I could live with no Guide Info. The way it is now, you can't even use sub-channels that are not included in the Guide Data, even if you want to set up a manual recording. But as other's have posted before it's clear that OTA is not a priority for DirecTV and I doubt they're going to change anything.


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

"litzdog911" said:


> ...
> But as other's have posted before it's clear that OTA is not a priority for DirecTV and I doubt they're going to change anything.


Yeah your probably right about that part.

Kevin


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

And since they are a satellite company, do you really think it should be any other way no matter how bad we want it?


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## aa9vi (Sep 4, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Keep in mind that D* is not adding new subchannels. I have an OTA antenna hooked up to an HR20-700, and I'm missing several subchannels because D* can't add them to the guide.


Correction: D* *WON'T* add them to the guide.

They also make up crap about subchannels slowing down the guide when often it is bloated or poorly written firmware. Sometimes your receiver will fly. Other times it may take 6 seconds to see a punched in channel number appear on the screen even with the same number of OTA channels in the database.

Pretty pathetic. Better than nothing, but implemented poorly. DirecTV is a satellite company, I agree. But they compete with FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner, Cablevision, Charter, Optimum, etc who provide OTA subchannels. I think I would dump D* if FIOS was available in Chicagoland. Comcast is inferior to DirecTV that's why I subscribe.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> And since they are a satellite company, do you really think it should be any other way no matter how bad we want it?


If the question were simply OTA or no OTA, and DirecTV chose no OTA, this would be a valid argument. But DirecTV has chosen to provide OTA in a half-assed manner. So yes, it *should* be some other way. "We based our entire OTA functionality on a crappy system, and that system has reached capacity" is a worthless excuse.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

aa9vi said:


> Correction: D* *WON'T* add them to the guide.
> 
> They also make up crap about subchannels slowing down the guide when often it is bloated or poorly written firmware. Sometimes your receiver will fly. Other times it may take 6 seconds to see a punched in channel number appear on the screen even with the same number of OTA channels in the database.
> 
> Pretty pathetic. Better than nothing, but implemented poorly. DirecTV is a satellite company, I agree. But they compete with FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner, Cablevision, Charter, Optimum, etc who provide OTA subchannels. I think I would dump D* if FIOS was available in Chicagoland. Comcast is inferior to DirecTV that's why I subscribe.


Thats odd, they just added a new subchannel 8-1 to my guide.


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## moghedien (Dec 3, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> Thats odd, they just added a new subchannel 8-1 to my guide.


Me too....


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## weaver6 (Nov 3, 2005)

RACJ2 said:


> Thats odd, they just added a new subchannel 8-1 to my guide.


A -1 sounds a lot like a main channel, not a subchannel.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Those are not real OTA subchannels. They are warning slides in areas where you local channel and DirecTV's carriage agreements are about to expire. DirecTV puts those channels up with a slide on them warning you that you may soon lose access to those channels over your satellite, they usually tell you to call or email your local station and complain so they don't ask DirecTV for as high of a rate increase as they are currently asking for.

Subchannels are like here in Peoria where channel 19-1 is ABC-HD and the subchannel 19-2 is The CW (in SD). A lot of PBS stations have a few subchannels like Create, etc.

I'm still holding out hope that with the new HD-GUI DirecTV will fix whatever issue is causing the Guide Data for channels to have to be limited so they can start adding OTA channels back in. I'm not holding my breath though.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> I'm still holding out hope that with the new HD-GUI DirecTV will fix whatever issue is causing the Guide Data for channels to have to be limited so they can start adding OTA channels back in. I'm not holding my breath though.


If you were holding your breath, you'd probably end up passing out. Seeing as they couldn't even raise the SL limit, I doubt they've done enough to enable them to add more OTA channels.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Not necessarily. As I understand it the series link limit is more of a hardware limitation. The way their series links works is to constantly be running a search in the background looking for all of the shows you have set up for series links. This evidently eats up a lot of processing power, and if they start letting it search for many more items it starts slowing everything down.

It sounds like the OTA problem is more of an issue with a limit on the size of the guide data stream, possibly one that could be removed and/or increased.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> As I understand it the series link limit is more of a hardware limitation. The way their series links works is to constantly be running a search in the background looking for all of the shows you have set up for series links. This evidently eats up a lot of processing power, and if they start letting it search for many more items it starts slowing everything down.


You just said it was a hardware limitation, and then explained how it's a software limitation.


Beerstalker said:


> It sounds like the OTA problem is more of an issue with a limit on the size of the guide data stream, possibly one that could be removed and/or increased.


It's essentially the same thing. Inefficient software that bogs down with too much data.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Jeremy W said:


> You just said it was a hardware limitation, and then explained how it's a software limitation.
> 
> It's essentially the same thing. Inefficient software that bogs down with too much data.


No, the search overwhelms the hardware in the HR2x if there is more than 50 series links. That is why they were able to increase the series links to 100 in the HR34, the hardware in it is faster and can do more before it starts bogging down.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> No, the search overwhelms the hardware in the HR2x if there is more than 50 series links. That is why they were able to increase the series links to 100 in the HR34, the hardware in it is faster and can do more before it starts bogging down.


The hardware bogs down because the software is inefficient. The hardware doesn't even know what a Series Link is, there is nothing inherent in the hardware to limit it to 50 (or 100).


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I guess it really comes down to how their search works. Yes, I suppose they could rewrite the software they use to do the search for sereis recordings so it ran faster/required less hardware, but that would most likely change it's functionality. Something they don't seem to want to do. So for them to keep the same functionality the hardware appears to be the limiting factor. Obviously they can't just update the hardware in existing machines in the field.

I don't believe adding more channels to the guide will cause the receivers to slow down. I think the problem is they only tell the receivers to look for the guide data in a certain place in the stream from the satellite and they can only fit so much data in that place. If they change the software to tell the receivers to look or guide data in a larger place in the stream then they could fit more data in that place.

But again, this is just what I'm hoping. I don't really think we will see any changes on either item at any point in the near future. In fact I would be more suprised for them to add in more channels than I would be if they just discontinued the AM21 altogether. It really seems to be the red-headed stepchild of DirecTV.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Beerstalker said:


> Those are not real OTA subchannels. They are warning slides in areas where you local channel and DirecTV's carriage agreements are about to expire. DirecTV puts those channels up with a slide on them warning you that you may soon lose access to those channels over your satellite, they usually tell you to call or email your local station and complain so they don't ask DirecTV for as high of a rate increase as they are currently asking for.
> 
> Subchannels are like here in Peoria where channel 19-1 is ABC-HD and the subchannel 19-2 is The CW (in SD). A lot of PBS stations have a few subchannels like Create, etc.
> 
> I'm still holding out hope that with the new HD-GUI DirecTV will fix whatever issue is causing the Guide Data for channels to have to be limited so they can start adding OTA channels back in. I'm not holding my breath though.


Personally, I was kidding about the sub-channel I posted, that's why I added the sarcastic eye roll. I can record all the sub-channels on my OTA DVR and we have plenty of them in the Dallas market. These screen shots are the greatest, but show they start in the single digits and end in the 70's.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

RACJ2 said:


> Personally, I was kidding about the sub-channel I posted, that's why I added the sarcastic eye roll. I can record all the sub-channels on my OTA DVR and we have plenty of them in the Dallas market. These screen shots are the greatest, but show they start in the single digits and end in the 70's.


I figured, but didn't want a bunch of people getting confused by it.

Which OTA DVR is that? I might have to look into getting one and selling off my AM21s here pretty soon. Seems like they are starting to add some more subchannels around here that DirecTV isn't adding so I might just have to deal with having 2 DVRs to record on each. Especialy if we start running into more and more carriage disputes which seems likely.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Beerstalker said:


> I figured, but didn't want a bunch of people getting confused by it.
> 
> Which OTA DVR is that? I might have to look into getting one and selling off my AM21s here pretty soon. Seems like they are starting to add some more subchannels around here that DirecTV isn't adding so I might just have to deal with having 2 DVRs to record on each. Especialy if we start running into more and more carriage disputes which seems likely.


Its the Channel Master CM7000PAL, which is the old Echostar DVR Pal.


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