# Windows 8 - Any first hand experiences?



## wilbur_the_goose

Does anybody have first hand experiences with Windows 8, especially on a non-touch screen?

I'm wondering if it's usable on a desktop.

Thanks.


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## RasputinAXP

In a desktop or laptop non touch it's awful.had the gold master for a while.


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## yosoyellobo

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Does anybody have first hand experiences with Windows 8, especially on a non-touch screen?
> 
> I'm wondering if it's usable on a desktop.
> 
> Thanks.


Am in the process of installing it on a desktop.


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## dpeters11

I mostly use Desktop apps, other than the lack of the traditional start button, I almost don't notice it. All that changes when I hit the windows key or bring up the Charms bar.


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## HDJulie

I installed it a couple of months ago. I fortunately found Stardock's Start8 program which gives me back my start button & menu & boots me directly to the desktop so it still looks & mostly feels like Win 7. I have to use HP's printing app to scan but can print normally. I avoid the tile interface as much as possible.


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## RunnerFL

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Does anybody have first hand experiences with Windows 8, especially on a non-touch screen?
> 
> I'm wondering if it's usable on a desktop.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, been playing with it here at work. It makes ZERO sense on a non-touch screen device.


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## klang

I installed it into a VM on my iMac last month just to check it out. I don't plan to upgrade my Win7 VM unless they give us a way to turn off the touch interface.


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## harsh

For those like me that turn your computer off:

1. Move pointer to upper right corner (Start menu should appear)
2. Choose Settings
3. Choose Power
4. Choose Shut down

And to think we said bad things about having to press the Start button to shut the computer down.


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## Drew2k

I played with two Win8 laptops at Costco today: one touch, one non-touch. The touch-screen was much easier to use, of course. 

But I found both to be non-intuitive in one regard: I was looking at the Win8 tiles and wanted to see what happened if I pressed WINDOWS-E, and it did bring up File Explorer, and showed the traditional task bar, but there was nothing I could to get back to the tiles. 

I have an MSDN license and may download and install to play, but I really do need a new laptop and if I'm going to get Windows 8 then I want something I can use as a tablet or laptop, something like the Dell XPS 12 convertible ultrabook. I will do a lot of research before I make a decision though...


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## billsharpe

I installed an early release version of Windows 8 as a dual boot option on my laptop and used it for a few weeks. The Metro interface is a disaster for mouse users. I removed Win 8 after a couple of weeks.

The good news is that MS will support Windows 7 through 2020.


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## TBoneit

For what it is worth, www.bleepingcomputer.com has posted a bunch of Windows 8 Tutorials and is still creating more. I also saw a Windows 8 Operating System forum.

I saw them and thought that will be handy for the early adopters.

Personally I think I'm going to stay with Windows 7 for a while longer, 2 to 5 years. I went from XP back in 2003 to windows 7 when it came out. I like my Mouse.

Cheers


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## dpeters11

"billsharpe" said:


> I installed an early release version of Windows 8 as a dual boot option on my laptop and used it for a few weeks. The Metro interface is a disaster for mouse users. I removed Win 8 after a couple of weeks.
> 
> The good news is that MS will support Windows 7 through 2020.


Extended support is through 2019, security patches will end in January 2020. Still a lot of time though.


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## djlong

There are lots of "under the hood" things I want Win 8 for (like Storage Spaces so that my 10TB+ of disks will look like one volume on the network) but that Metro UI is just god-awful for a desktop.


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## Drew2k

billsharpe said:


> I installed an early release version of Windows 8 as a dual boot option on my laptop and used it for a few weeks. The Metro interface is a disaster for mouse users. I removed Win 8 after a couple of weeks.
> 
> The good news is that MS will support Windows 7 through 2020.


I broke down today while I was at Costco and picked up an HP Envy Windows 8 laptop. It's not touchscreen, but has a huge touchpad, and using two-fingers on the pad you can do screen swipes to scroll up/down or left/right. Dragging a finger from the right edge opens the charms, dragging from the left opens swaps to the most recently used app.

This helps a LOT, but I think I will still be returning this to look for a touchscreen laptop.


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## Drew2k

djlong said:


> There are lots of "under the hood" things I want Win 8 for (like Storage Spaces so that my 10TB+ of disks will look like one volume on the network) but that Metro UI is just god-awful for a desktop.


Yeah, seeing all installed apps and accessories in a huge list is just confusing and messy. But... it's one click to get to the Desktop, and my plan is to pin my favorite apps to the task bar and just ignore the Start Tile screen 
unless there's some obscure program I want to open.

My ultimate hope is Microsoft will relent and let users choose to use a Start Menu or the Start Tiles.


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## Nick

From *AllThingsD.com*:


> _Windows RT will only be available built into devices. A high-end
> version of Windows 8, called Pro, can be purchased separately,
> so you can upgrade your PC. ... If you don't have a touchscreen,
> Windows 8 will still work, but more clumsily..._


More: http://allthingsd.com/20121016/windows-pushes-into-the-tablet-age/


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## hdtvfan0001

dpeters11 said:


> Extended support is through 2019, security patches will end in January 2020. Still a lot of time though.


Thank goodness.

The Windows 8 UI clearly was designed by Barney from Sesame Street.

Clunky on a tablet...a mouse-maze on a PC.


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## Chris Blount

Just installed it as a virtual machine on my iMac. It's not really useless if you have a mouse. There is a desktop mode that has the feel of previous Windows versions. So far its running pretty smoothly.


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## dpeters11

Clean installs:

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/clean-install-windows-8-upgrade-media-144648


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## HDJulie

Y'all should check out Start8 by Stardock. I think it is only $5. Works great & I almost forget that I am in Windows 8.


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## yosoyellobo

Upgrade Friday from Windows 7 Home to Windows 8 Pro.


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## Stuart Sweet

Put it one of my lesser used computers yesterday. IE10 with only one tab is fairly useless. I have multiple tabs open 100% of the time. Luckily there's Chrome. 

So far the only saving grace is the legacy desktop and win7 compatibility. Also I miss having a clock on the screen all the time. 

It's like they took all the things that make it possible for me to do my job, and did their best to keep me from using them.

Other than that it's ok.


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## Davenlr

Ive read all the complaints here, but so far, I havent seen any compelling reasons why someone would want to upgrade a perfectly working windows 7 system....Why are you all upgrading?


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## yosoyellobo

In my case because it is there.


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## Stuart Sweet

Because I have a less-used computer to play, and because I want to know what I'm up against.

I just read that 90% of IT managers surveyed do not intend to deploy Windows 8 any time before 2014. That gives Microsoft... Plenty of time to decide if they care about business or productivity; at the moment it would seem they don't.


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## Stuart Sweet

Davenlr said:


> Ive read all the complaints here, but so far, I havent seen any compelling reasons why someone would want to upgrade a perfectly working windows 7 system....Why are you all upgrading?


The nice thing is you can install win 8 and dual boot win 7, keeping your perfectly working system, perfectly working and only going to Win 8 when you feel like poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick. It's a pretty easy procedure.


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## HDJulie

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> Put it one of my lesser used computers yesterday. IE10 with only one tab is fairly useless. I have multiple tabs open 100% of the time. Luckily there's Chrome.
> 
> So far the only saving grace is the legacy desktop and win7 compatibility. Also I miss having a clock on the screen all the time.
> 
> It's like they took all the things that make it possible for me to do my job, and did their best to keep me from using them.
> 
> Other than that it's ok.


Are you saying that IE10 doesn't do tabs?


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## Stuart Sweet

That's what I am saying. There are actually two IE apps in Windows 8. The one in the desktop is just like the one on Windows 7, with multiple tabs. However, the one from the start screen is one window, no tabs. The two apps don't share preferences or bookmarks but both are called "Internet explorer 10." Very confusing.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> Because I have a less-used computer to play, and because I want to know what I'm up against.
> 
> I just read that 90% of IT managers surveyed do not intend to deploy Windows 8 any time before 2014. That gives Microsoft... Plenty of time to decide if they care about business or productivity; at the moment it would seem they don't.


You mean IT managers where their main focus is stability and useability are not planning to upgrade at first chance to a whole new UI basically in win8? Lol

There is a reason why most would rather run 98 on SP 1million than vista RC...hehe... Just now are most upgrading from 98 to win7... So its no shock to me that most would pass on the win8 this yr...

Plus....who likes tiles?...lol

I'm still shocked at the one tab in IE thing too lol.


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## RunnerFL

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> You mean IT managers where their main focus is stability and useability are not planning to upgrade at first chance to a whole new UI basically in win8? Lol
> 
> There is a reason why most would rather run 98 on SP 1million than vista RC...hehe... Just now are most upgrading from 98 to win7... So its no shock to me that most would pass on the win8 this yr...
> 
> Plus....who likes tiles?...lol
> 
> I'm still shocked at the one tab in IE thing too lol.


We're actually talking about upgrading users from Win 7 to Ubuntu Desktop where I work. It's either that or just stick with Win 7 until EOL and see what happens between now and then. Win 8 just doesn't belong in a business setting.


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## phrelin

"Chris Blount" said:


> Just installed it as a virtual machine on my iMac. It's not really useless if you have a mouse. There is a desktop mode that has the feel of previous Windows versions. So far its running pretty smoothly.


The thing about your post is that I've been contemplating switching to the Mac side of the aisle. I'm in no rush, but even though I had to switch to MS-DOS from TRS-DOS almost 30 years ago, I really don't see the point of a Microsoft based computing environment in the era of the tablet.

Right now I am perfectly happy with Windows 7, but assuming I'm not dead or senile in 2015 I can't figure out what I'll be doing on a Windows 9 or 10 desktop. I've lost interest in tweaking or working around the operating system - it just seems a waste of the little time I have left. And that seems to be the reality of a Windows OS. Much like XP, I've finally gotten Win 7 to mostly do what I expect from a desktop OS.

I love my iPad 1. The one thing I don't like is the smudges from fingers and my lack of accuracy in touching exactly what I'm aiming at to drag, etc. So why not screw up the mouse-keyboard environment of my desktop so that thousands of software (ok, now they're "app") manufacturers can make their clunky but fully functional data base oriented programs work in a mouseless workplace.

If I must basically move to an iPad computing environment, it seems like I might as well go with the folks who made the touchscreen GUI a commercial success. And I guess if I need something that works well only in Win 7, there seems to be that option in the Mac environment.

That's my rant for the month, posted from my iPad.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

"RunnerFL" said:


> We're actually talking about upgrading users from Win 7 to Ubuntu Desktop where I work. It's either that or just stick with Win 7 until EOL and see what happens between now and then. Win 8 just doesn't belong in a business setting.


Exactly!

I installed the preview months ago and removed it after a day. Just didn't like it... Don't see why they would want to go completely away from the format to a more constricted view in the move from a desktop to having tiles and such...

I understand the want to have the same user experience across all platform devices....but at what cost to user experience is it worth it?


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## Chris Blount

phrelin said:


> The thing about your post is that I've been contemplating switching to the Mac side of the aisle. I'm in no rush, but even though I had to switch to MS-DOS from TRS-DOS almost 30 years ago, I really don't see the point of a Microsoft based computing environment in the era of the tablet.
> 
> Right now I am perfectly happy with Windows 7, but assuming I'm not dead or senile in 2015 I can't figure out what I'll be doing on a Windows 9 or 10 desktop. I've lost interest in tweaking or working around the operating system - it just seems a waste of the little time I have left. And that seems to be the reality of a Windows OS. Much like XP, I've finally gotten Win 7 to mostly do what I expect from a desktop OS.
> 
> I love my iPad 1. The one thing I don't like is the smudges from fingers and my lack of accuracy in touching exactly what I'm aiming at to drag, etc. So why not screw up the mouse-keyboard environment of my desktop so that thousands of software (ok, now they're "app") manufacturers can make their clunky but fully functional data base oriented programs work in a mouseless workplace.
> 
> If I must basically move to an iPad computing environment, it seems like I might as well go with the folks who made the touchscreen GUI a commercial success. And I guess if I need something that works well only in Win 7, there seems to be that option in the Mac environment.
> 
> That's my rant for the month, posted from my iPad.


 That's basically where I was about 4 years ago. I got tired of fiddling around with Windows based systems. While the MAC OSX environment isn't perfect, there are a lot of things that you don't worry about with a Mac.

I actually like Windows 7. I boot up Win 7 several times a month to run a few programs that don't have a Mac counterpart (like my Christmas light display software). On a Mac you can also have both systems running at the same time which is really cool especially if you have two monitors. Windows on one monitor and OSX on the other.


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## Stuart Sweet

Chris, I agree that it's not useless in a mouse/keyboard environment but it certainly is less useful. I was thinking last night, that Windows 8 almost seems like a spiteful move. Business users were once the lifeblood of Windows but since Windows Vista, more businesses have elected to stay at least one cycle behind (I don't blame them.) Microsoft is going where the money is now, to the consumer, and it seems that they simply don't care what the impact to businesses.

I saw the same thing with Adobe several years ago. At one time professional creatives were their key user base, but as they kept filling their software up with bloaty, uninteresting features people elected to stay on earlier versions. Adobe refocussed on the general user and as a result there hasn't been a good feature added to Photoshop or Illustrator for professional users in at least 7 years.


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## lparsons21

After running the consumer preview of Win8 on my laptop, I took it off. From my POV the tiled UI just gets in the way of actually using the computer and brings literally no benefit to the table to offset that.

On a touchscreen desktop it still wouldn't be of much use since desktop touch has been an abject failure over the years except in some very narrow markets. And I have experience with touch on a desktop as I had an HP Touchsmart for a bit. I found that I almost never used touch, the only times I used it was with the few touch apps that came with it, like the recipe/cooking app which was wonderful.

So basically MS has decided to bring a touchpad/touch phone interface to the desktop/laptop which to me means virtually no pickup from the business community and if it wasn't for new boxes coming with Win8, I think it would fail in the consumer end too.


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## Stuart Sweet

Just realized that the Win8 version of IE doesn't let you have favorites. Really? You can pin a shortcut to a site to the start page but hey, I have literally 60 sites I visit EVERY DAY for work. There's no "open in tabs," no "tab groups", seriously. If Chrome didn't work on Win8 I would be sunk. I mean, I can use the IE version in the desktop as well, but it seems clear Microsoft only put that there as a crutch and I wouldn't want to count on it for work, knowing they could pull it at any time.


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## MysteryMan

The more I read about Windows 8 the more I think it will go the way of Windows Millennium.


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## Stuart Sweet

Don't know if I would go that far. There are a number of 3rd party apps that seem to make Win8 almost tolerable. Chrome and Start8 bring back a lot of function. The issue for me is a deeper one; taking away productivity by default. 

There are some plusses... the mail and contacts client syncs with Exchange, at least in the Pro version. It accurately and quietly identified my printer and installed the driver. I think I'll like the idea that you can go into Settings for any app just by clicking on the same icon. 

However, a few more minuses... right-click does very little outside the Desktop app. F1 doesn't do anything (gee, that's only been the help button for 30 years). Messages lets you add facebook, but it doesn't let seem to let you add a windows live ID unless it's using the .hotmail.com or .live.com domain.

Oh, one more thing... the Start screen shows my name all the time. I know my name. I'd rather have a clock all the time; I don't always know the time.


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## Mike Bertelson

I don't understand why the PC OS has to be the same as the mobile OS....then again, the familiarity and ease of use across multiple devices is what made iOS. 

I hope there isn't too much that's cloud based. Where I work that can't happen. We already have issues between the web based Help and our firewall.

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet

There is a lot of cloud stuff, even your login is cloud-based unless you specifically define yourself as a local user. I don't know what happens if you login without internet access.


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## Mike Bertelson

Stuart Sweet said:


> There is a lot of cloud stuff, even your login is cloud-based unless you specifically define yourself as a local user. I don't know what happens if you login without internet access.


I doubt my company will ever switch if it's cloud based.

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet

Mike, to be clear I'm running Windows 8 Pro on a computer that's not attached to a domain. I don't know about the cloud-based-ness of Windows 8 Enterprise.


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## Mike Bertelson

Stuart Sweet said:


> Mike, to be clear I'm running Windows 8 Pro on a computer that's not attached to a domain. I don't know about the cloud-based-ness of Windows 8 Enterprise.


Not that it matters much. It takes forever to vet a new OS. It has to pass compatibility with our software, security's software, etc.

We've only installed Windows 7 over the last year. We currently don't have plans to test Win 8 but if we did it would take more than a year to make it secure for a defense contractor.

Mike


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## Drew2k

I did a clean install of Win 8 over the weekend and my biggest complaint is that the setup process doesn't ask your timezone, even if you had turned off "location-detection"! 

As I mentioned earlier, even without a touch screen, using the touchpad to swipe is pretty easy - not sure if that's universal or unique to HP, but it's a good approximation of touching the screen and should be natural for tablet users.

The "metro" apps - and I'll continue to call them that - are kind of useless, but you can show two metro apps side by side in a fashion. One metro app will be a thin column, the other nearly full screen. I can see putting music in a thin column as something you might do, but it's just so much easier to go to Desktop mode and truly multi-task...


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## dpeters11

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> Not that it matters much. It takes forever to vet a new OS. It has to pass compatibility with our software, security's software, etc.
> 
> We've only installed Windows 7 over the last year. We currently don't have plans to test Win 8 but if we did it would take more than a year to make it secure for a defense contractor.
> 
> Mike


I can't imagine any sizable company going to 8, regardless of being a defense contractor or not.


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## wilbur_the_goose

I installed Windows 8 on a home laptop. After a couple of days, I actually like it, and I'm an IT pro. I especially appreciate the better implementation of security.

It's definitely faster than Windows 7 on my Intel Core i3 PC.


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## pfp

You all think the UI on the desktop OS is bad - have a look at the Server 2012 the same darn tile interface. How many people have a server with a touch screen?


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## RunnerFL

pfp said:


> You all think the UI on the desktop OS is bad - have a look at the Server 2012 the same darn tile interface. How many people have a server with a touch screen?


The tile UI is an option on Server. Server by default has no GUI now.


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## txtommy

It was given to me as a gift. After 4 days of use I am looking for a way to go back to Windows 7. Played with the tiles for a couple days and have since gone back to the now downgraded desktop. Don't waste your money. Other than for those who want to use a touchscreen, I see nothing but disadvantages to the new software. MS must have just needed some money to push this out the door. I won't be installing it on any other computers as long as 7 is available.


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## dpeters11

I wouldn't say that. Seems everyone concentrates on the GUI. This goes over some of the benefits.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article...part-6-reliability-security-networking-144631
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-review-part-7-business-features-144698


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## Drew2k

This is now the third OS on my HTPC. It came with Windows XP, I installed Windows 7 when it came out, and this last weekend Windows 8. I can honestly say that I LOVE how quickly you go from cold boot to login - Microsoft did a nice job there. I can only imagine how much faster that would be with a newer machine, more memory and a faster CPU!


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## RunnerFL

Drew2k said:


> This is now the third OS on my HTPC. It came with Windows XP, I installed Windows 7 when it came out, and this last weekend Windows 8. I can honestly say that I LOVE how quickly you go from cold boot to login - Microsoft did a nice job there. I can only imagine how much faster that would be with a newer machine, more memory and a faster CPU!


Skip the newer machine, more memory and faster CPU and just throw an SSD drive in there as the boot drive. You'll see a huge improvement. My laptops, both of wich have SSD drives, boot nearly instantly. One is Windows 7 Ultimate and the other is Ubuntu.


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## wingrider01

txtommy said:


> It was given to me as a gift. After 4 days of use I am looking for a way to go back to Windows 7. Played with the tiles for a couple days and have since gone back to the now downgraded desktop. Don't waste your money. Other than for those who want to use a touchscreen, I see nothing but disadvantages to the new software. MS must have just needed some money to push this out the door. I won't be installing it on any other computers as long as 7 is available.


Install the trial of START 8 and see how that works for you. If it does it is a 4.99 app for windows 8, works very well

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/


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## Blurayfan

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> That's what I am saying. There are actually two IE apps in Windows 8. The one in the desktop is just like the one on Windows 7, with multiple tabs. However, the one from the start screen is one window, no tabs. The two apps don't share preferences or bookmarks but both are called "Internet explorer 10." Very confusing.


The Metro Internet Explorer 10 does do tabs and show Favorites on a non touch system.

After opening IE10 from the start page right click anywhere on the screen. A new menu will appear with a + and three ... symbols. Clicking the + opens a new tab and shows your frequent sites and Favorites on the bottom of the screen.

Also position the mouse to the bottom of the screen and right clicking in the current tab will show the address bar clicking that will display the frequent and Favorites again.


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## Stuart Sweet

well, they could have made that a bit more obvious. I see it now.


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## Blurayfan

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> well, they could have made that a bit more obvious. I see it now.


I agree with you, MS could have designed the app better, they really could have made Win 8 as a whole better.

They should offer a way for users who dislike Metro to disable it and use the Desktop instead. Also when using the desktop it should be the classic Desktop with the Start menu included.

Another thing I don't like is the removal of the Aero effects, translucent glass, and the others. Windows 8 almost looks like an older version rather than being brand new.


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## Steveknj

Blurayfan said:


> I agree with you, MS could have designed the app better, they really could have made Win 8 as a whole better.
> 
> They should offer a way for users who dislike Metro to disable it and use the Desktop instead. Also when using the desktop it should be the classic Desktop with the Start menu included.
> 
> Another thing I don't like is the removal of the Aero effects, translucent glass, and the others. Windows 8 almost looks like an older version rather than being brand new.


Seriously, there are so many benefits under the hood with Windows 8, that, if they just offered that one simple toggle to disable the Start page and go to the desktop by default, it would be a no brainer to upgrade. Fortunately that app mentioned here, Start8, looks very promising.


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## dpeters11

This may be going down the path of ridiculousness, but what the heck.

Thinking back to the last really big change in the GUI (and I'm not talking Aero), all the way back to Windows 95. I heard complaints back then, along with the start to shutdown jokes. Should they have made it an easier option to use Program Manager as the GUI? Eventually, everyone got used to the new way, and even liked it.

I wonder if the same will happen with Metro?


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## Blurayfan

"dpeters11" said:


> This may be going down the path of ridiculousness, but what the heck.
> 
> Thinking back to the last really big change in the GUI (and I'm not talking Aero), all the way back to Windows 95. I heard complaints back then, along with the start to shutdown jokes. Should they have made it an easier option to use Program Manager as the GUI? Eventually, everyone got used to the new way, and even liked it.
> 
> I wonder if the same will happen with Metro?


Well what really could be the deciding factor of how the Metro UI takes off is if and how many software developers of popular programs create Metro versions of their offerings.


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## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> This may be going down the path of ridiculousness, but what the heck.
> 
> Thinking back to the last really big change in the GUI (and I'm not talking Aero), all the way back to Windows 95. I heard complaints back then, along with the start to shutdown jokes. Should they have made it an easier option to use Program Manager as the GUI? Eventually, everyone got used to the new way, and even liked it.
> 
> I wonder if the same will happen with Metro?


The change from Windows 3.1/Windows For Workgroups/NT4 to Win95 wasn't as drastic as the Win7 to Win8 change.

They stopped calling it Metro a few months ago.


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## RasputinAXP

hello from my new surface RT tablet that showed up in the FedEx truck today. still getting used to the keybord but i'm midding auto-caps amongst othr things. it's going to take a few days to learn hoeto type on this keyboard but overall it's not horrific. 

yet.


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## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> hello from my new surface RT tablet that showed up in the FedEx truck today. still getting used to the keybord but i'm midding auto-caps amongst othr things. it's going to take a few days to learn hoeto type on this keyboard but overall it's not horrific.
> 
> yet.


Looking at that spelling...or the lack of spell checking....now there's enough reason alone to avoid it...  :lol:


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## dpeters11

"RunnerFL" said:


> The change from Windows 3.1/Windows For Workgroups/NT4 to Win95 wasn't as drastic as the Win7 to Win8 change.
> 
> They stopped calling it Metro a few months ago.


Going from Windows 3.1 to 95 seemed like a bigger change.

I know they did, but I still seem to call it Metro. But then I still have an HR34, not a Genie 

Oh and for anyone that uses Powershell, be sure to run update-help. Still getting one error for BitLocker.

One more edit, Paul Thurrott just released part 8 of his review, The Verdict.
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-review-part-8-verdict-144708


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## RasputinAXP

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looking at that spelling...or the lack of spell checking....now there's enough reason alone to avoid it...  :lol:


Seriously. It'll take me a few days to get used to it, but it should be doing a better job correcting my oopsies.


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## lparsons21

Blurayfan said:


> Well what really could be the deciding factor of how the Metro UI takes off is if and how many software developers of popular programs create Metro versions of their offerings.


If the current batch of Metro software is any indication, I don't think that will be a factor at all. Every one of them I've looked at is mostly the same as apps on a tablet. Full screen always and somewhat simplistic in what they do.

Yeah, I wasn't going to get Win8, but I got to thinking that I've always got the newest OS on any computer I've owned, I don't use Windows much so one OS or another isn't going to make a big deal, and it was only $40. So what the hell, I bought and downloaded it.

After fiddling around a bit, it turns out I don't hate it as much as I would have expected. I had gotten the consumer preview, but put it on a virgin drive which wasn't personalized for me very much. But after the upgrade I noticed that when you go to a normal desktop app, the icons for the apps I already had there were still there and functional. The only thing lacking is the 'start' menu.

Right now I've not gotten one of the 'start' menu add-ons to see if it really is needed. I've got to say that I never used the start menu very much anyway, and frankly at this point, I don't miss it. I've got the apps that I want/use pinned to the Metro screen which you really can kind of think of as a big full screen start menu and that seems to be fine.

One thing they've killed off is Windows Live Mesh. Yeah the app is still there, but it doesn't actually do anything anymore. Since MS has killed off Live Mesh I suppose that shouldn't surprise me.  The odd thing is that the Mac OSX version of Live Mesh works just fine.

The other oddity I've noticed is that when I access a document with the SkyDrive app, it opens it in the Office Starter Pack versions instead of the online versions at Skydrive. And for some odd reason creating a new document isn't an option.

The switching of screens back and forth is a bit irritating, but not enough to lose sleep over.

All in all, it doesn't change my opinion about Win8 much. Yeah it does things quicker, but the Metro UI really doesn't bring anything compelling to desktop/laptop.


----------



## Drew2k

Metro Apps are now Windows Store Apps. Long live Windows Store Apps.

But I much preferred "Metro".


----------



## dpeters11

Free Windows 8 e-book:

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...ok_Introducing_Windows_8_Free_Preview_PDF.pdf


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I have been forcing myself to use Windows 8 for 10-15 minutes a day minimum on a secondary computer. It will take a lot of time for me to get to the point where I like it, but it is getting to be more useful. Without a touchscreen a lot of it really doesn't make sense, but I did find out there are a huge number of keyboard shortcuts, including Windows-F1, which replaces F1 for help. I'm not sure why Search can't just search everything like it does on the Windows 7 Start menu. As a second screen sitting next to my regular computer the start screen makes sense, although I have some complaints. It's too animated and distracting and as I said before I know my name but I don't always know what time it is.


----------



## lparsons21

Well, just as I thought all apps were working fine, I just had to try out DirecTV2PC! It has worked fine on this laptop I have win8 on, but now it has decided that the damned thing doesn't support "screen capture protection"! 

I've had a love/hate relationship with this app for a very long time. It is written in the poorest manner and is very picky about what it will run on. Other streaming apps, including with Dish don't seem to have these issues. It's kinda like the programmer wanted to make it more difficult than it has to be. And since they really haven't done squat with it for a very long time, it seems this will be the first app to get uninstalled!


----------



## pfp

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have been forcing myself to use Windows 8 for 10-15 minutes a day minimum on a secondary computer. It will take a lot of time for me to get to the point where I like it, but it is getting to be more useful. Without a touchscreen a lot of it really doesn't make sense, but I did find out there are a huge number of keyboard shortcuts, including Windows-F1, which replaces F1 for help. I'm not sure why Search can't just search everything like it does on the Windows 7 Start menu. As a second screen sitting next to my regular computer the start screen makes sense, although I have some complaints. It's too animated and distracting and as I said before I know my name but I don't always know what time it is.


If I'll have to spend a lot of time learning a new OS like that I might as well consider making the switch to mac as I'm already a bit familiar with it from my phone and tablet. Excellent move by Apple and dumb move from Microsoft.


----------



## PCampbell

I have a 6 month old HP win 7 and it works fine, I see no need to spend money to update a new machine. Yes I have used win 8, If i need to learn a new interface I think I will go Mac like my wife did.


----------



## dpeters11

pfp said:


> If I'll have to spend a lot of time learning a new OS like that I might as well consider making the switch to mac as I'm already a bit familiar with it from my phone and tablet. Excellent move by Apple and dumb move from Microsoft.


Mac OS X is very different from iOS. Windows 8 is closer to Windows Phone 8 etc than OS X and iOS.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> Mac OS X is very different from iOS.


For now... Every OSX update gets us closer to one OS for all Apple products.


----------



## Drew2k

I now have the HTPC and a laptop running Windows 8, and neither is touch screen, but I'm getting more used to it. I still spend all of my time in desktop mode, though, and have most of my quick-access apps pinned to the taskbar, so I rarely need to go to the Start screen. 

When I do go there, though, I can't stand when I accidentally launch a Windows Store App and have to go through a lot of motion to close it. Is there no shorter way to close a Windows Store App than return to the Start Screen, click in the top-left corner to show the most recent app, and then right-click and pick Close??? Uugh.

I did learn today that PG UP and PG DN work great in the start screen to scroll left and right, so that makes it easier to use. 

But the whole approach of seeing all program shortcut at once on the All Apps screen just bugs me. I blame Apple and Google for this: the Apps drawer/tray in iDevices and Android devices shows all apps at once and users have to scroll through them to launch them, so Microsoft decided it needed to be a copycat. 

On the good news side, though, I was able to get my three ancient ATI Home Theater Pro tuner cards to work in the HTPC with minimal fuss. Instead of running the legacy ATI Catalyst Control Center installer, I just right-clicked on the "unknown devices" in device manager and picked "update driver", and then navigated to my ATI folder and had it find the driver from there. Windows 8 Media Center is up and running.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Drew, to close a fullscreen app click and hold on the top of the screen and drag the entire window to the bottom.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

Is there a way to lock the tiles so they don't move once I have everything the way I like it?


----------



## lparsons21

Not from what I've seen or read.


----------



## Getteau

Stuart Sweet said:


> Drew, to close a fullscreen app click and hold on the top of the screen and drag the entire window to the bottom.


you can also go old school and do Alt-F4.

For those who don't have a keyboard with a Windows key, CTRL-ESC brings up the Metro interface.


----------



## Drew2k

Stuart Sweet said:


> Drew, to close a fullscreen app click and hold on the top of the screen and drag the entire window to the bottom.


Wow ... so much easier than what I had been doing - thanks! I never noticed the mouse cursor changed shape when moved to the top of the screen for Windows Store apps - I guess I never moved the mouse there! I wish MS had a few more visual cues. Could then not have shown an [x] in the top left corner? 

On a different note, I installed Chrome and set it as the default, but now anytime I open a link from outside of the browser it doesn't open my desktop edition of Chrome, it opens the full-screen version. I've googled for a fix, but haven't found one. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Drew2k

Getteau said:


> you can also go old school and do Alt-F4.


LOL - I never thought to try that one!


----------



## dpeters11

One useful thing having dual monitors, you always have a desktop screen.


----------



## kevinturcotte

Wow. All of this is telling me to stay FAR, FAR away from Windows 8 lol I don't have a touchscreen Tv, use my keyboard for typing ONLY (I don't really know any keyboard shortcuts), and LOVE my mouse.


----------



## harsh

dpeters11 said:
 

> One useful thing having dual monitors, you always have a desktop screen.


I question whether this is supported in Windows 8.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Which, dual monitors or a desktop?


----------



## dpeters11

harsh said:


> I question whether this is supported in Windows 8.


Not only is dual monitors supported, it's been enhanced.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/21/enhancing-windows-8-for-multiple-monitors.aspx

I upgraded my desktop last night, when I first booted up after it was done, one monitor had the tiles, the second had the desktop. I didn't do anything to make it do that.

Paul Thurrott wrote more about it:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-feature-focus-multimonitor-143027


----------



## la24philly

i went an played around with it at a store. I then said ok when is windows 9 coming out.

MS knows this will be a bust and they will go back to what works, start button and the interface were use to.


----------



## dpeters11

There's been references to a product code named Blue, but it could basically be a Windows 8 feature pack.

In the future, I certainly see changes and tweaks to the UI, but nothing as drastic as a complete overhaul and scrapping "Metro".

But, the good thing is, users don't have to upgrade. Windows 7 will work just fine until 2020. It will still operate, though insecurely after that.


----------



## kevinturcotte

I hope it gets scrapped, or something happens. I have ZERO intention of buying a touch screen HDTV and sitting DIRECTLY in front of it lol


----------



## dpeters11

Be sure to get your free code for the Media Center addon pack:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

After January 31, it will cost $10.


----------



## wingrider01

harsh said:


> I question whether this is supported in Windows 8.


You mean multiple monitors? 3 Nvidia GTX 690's each with 2 monitors each they work


----------



## JcT21

i tried the beta evaluation version and its safe to say i will not be using windows 8. however ive noticed that some people, mainly my facebook friends and members of my own family get the wrong impression of win 8. take my aunt for example. she sees the commercial and then rushes out to buy 8. gets it installed and calls me up, frustrated as to how come she cant touch her screen and make things work like on the commercial. my sister did the same thing. both thought that this was the greatest thing they had ever seen & somehow windows 8 would make their monitors touchable like an ipad/ipod. ive seen the commercial and i can see how some people would think that. after i explained how things worked they hated it and i had to re install 7 on their machines. 

any of you encountered any of those folks?


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> I question whether this is supported in Windows 8.


It's definitely supported. We have it running on a machine at work with 4 monitors. No special setup was required, it just worked.


----------



## dpeters11

"JcT21" said:


> i tried the beta evaluation version and its safe to say i will not be using windows 8. however ive noticed that some people, mainly my facebook friends and members of my own family get the wrong impression of win 8. take my aunt for example. she sees the commercial and then rushes out to buy 8. gets it installed and calls me up, frustrated as to how come she cant touch her screen and make things work like on the commercial. my sister did the same thing. both thought that this was the greatest thing they had ever seen & somehow windows 8 would make their monitors touchable like an ipad/ipod. ive seen the commercial and i can see how some people would think that. after i explained how things worked they hated it and i had to re install 7 on their machines.
> 
> any of you encountered any of those folks?


Please tell me they at least had only gotten the $40 upgrade.

I can't say that I expected that kind of issue though.

There's a lot I like about it, some things surprised me. Bringing up task manager for the first time, whoa.


----------



## JcT21

dpeters11 said:


> Please tell me they at least had only gotten the $40 upgrade.
> 
> I can't say that I expected that kind of issue though.
> 
> There's a lot I like about it, some things surprised me. Bringing up task manager for the first time, whoa.


aunt said it was $70 @ walmart.... she tried to take it back but they said since it was opened they couldnt accept it. after i got the call about their windows 8 issue, i picked up my jaw from the floor i fixed them up with windows 7 :nono2:


----------



## JcT21

i might offer her something for it, i might get it at a huge discount.... i wont be using it on my main pc, but it wouldnt hurt to play around with it just to keep up with things i guess


----------



## dpeters11

Just checked, physical media version is $70, download version is $40.


----------



## djlong

Just an FYI - the $40 upgrade is to the *Pro* version. Among the features it has that the 'regular' version doesn't have is the ability to host a remote desktop session. In my case, this will mean that my laptop will be able to remotely connect to the desktops of any PC in the house and I won't have to by physically sitting in front of the particular PC.


----------



## harsh

dpeters11 said:


> I upgraded my desktop last night, when I first booted up after it was done, one monitor had the tiles, the second had the desktop. I didn't do anything to make it do that.


Do you envision using the Metro interface or is it substantially wasting a display?


----------



## dpeters11

It's not wasting a display, I can put up the Desktop there too, or move a desktop app over to that screen. My point was that in a dual screen environment, you always have a desktop area, in this case the far right side.

In a moment of insanity, I installed AMD chipset drivers for Windows 8. Now I've got no mouse. Other USB devices are working. Will have to figure that one out.


----------



## Drew2k

dpeters11 said:


> In a moment of insanity, I installed AMD chipset drivers for Windows 8. Now I've got no mouse. Other USB devices are working. Will have to figure that one out.


I had a similar issue where after I updated a driver for something (I forget what), the IR receiver suddenly stopped working. After a bit of head-scratching I resolved it by going to Device Manager and removing the IR device, unplugging the IR receiver, then plugging it back in. It immediately detected it and it started working again.


----------



## dpeters11

"Drew2k" said:


> I had a similar issue where after I updated a driver for something (I forget what), the IR receiver suddenly stopped working. After a bit of head-scratching I resolved it by going to Device Manager and removing the IR device, unplugging the IR receiver, then plugging it back in. It immediately detected it and it started working again.


I'll try that, just need to plug in a wired mouse. Windows is hard to use without a mouse, or now a touch screen.


----------



## Mustang Dave

Windows 8 is absolutely horrible. We installed at work today to start testing it out. Having two desktop screens (Start screen and sort of the old desktop screen) is completely redicolous. From a business user perspective, heck from any perspective, this OS is dead in the water based on the complexity of use. Next OS please...(with one main desktop)....


----------



## dpeters11

I do agree from a corporate standpoint, though server 2012 may be different. A lot of companies are still working on upgrading to 7.

I used to think 8 was a disaster from a home use perspective, but I'm changing my mind actually using it. 7 is still my favorite, but 8 is no ME.


----------



## Drew2k

I have a Microsoft account and used that when I configured Wndows 8, and I also have a different Xbox account. Today I decided to try Xbox Smart Glass on Windows 8, but I was logged in with my Windows 8 account and it said if I wanted to use my Xbox account, sign out of Windows 8, create a new local account, and then sign back in. What??? Everything is already configured under my Windows 8 account, I should start over with a new account?

So I said, no, I don't want to do that, and just logged in with my existing Microsoft account I was using for Win8. It then created a stupid new Xbox account with no other information and told me I have exactly one chance to change the stupid name it gave me. Worst of all, it is using this same stupid new Xbox account for the Music app, the Video app, etc.

I don't want to use this stupid new Xbox app name and can't find a way to get rid of it now. 

Stupid.

Stupid.

Stupid.


----------



## kevinturcotte

I have to admit, I AM curious to play with it, before I give it a final judgement. Is there anyway I can download it and try it out for like 30 days?


----------



## kevinturcotte

Drew2k said:


> I have a Microsoft account and used that when I configured Wndows 8, and I also have a different Xbox account. Today I decided to try Xbox Smart Glass on Windows 8, but I was logged in with my Windows 8 account and it said if I wanted to use my Xbox account, sign out of Windows 8, create a new local account, and then sign back in. What??? Everything is already configured under my Windows 8 account, I should start over with a new account?
> 
> So I said, no, I don't want to do that, and just logged in with my existing Microsoft account I was using for Win8. It then created a stupid new Xbox account with no other information and told me I have exactly one chance to change the stupid name it gave me. Worst of all, it is using this same stupid new Xbox account for the Music app, the Video app, etc.
> 
> I don't want to use this stupid new Xbox app name and can't find a way to get rid of it now.
> 
> Stupid.
> 
> Stupid.
> 
> Stupid.


A sledgehammer should take care of the problem lol


----------



## dpeters11

"kevinturcotte" said:


> I have to admit, I AM curious to play with it, before I give it a final judgement. Is there anyway I can download it and try it out for like 30 days?


Try this:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

I think it's great for home use on a PC you use for dbstalk.com, facebook, twitter, e-mail, etc. 

And there are apps where a touch-screen tablet will work great.

But for most of us, it's doomed for the workplace.


----------



## dpeters11

Well, Sinofsky is out, effective immediately. Julie Larson-Green is in charge of all future development.


----------



## heathramos

well our VP at work wants an ultrabook so I just ordered the 32bit and 64bit versions of Windows 8 Professional so I can test it running our standard software on a typical desktop.

don't want to have to support an ultrabook without at least playing with Windows 8 here at work behind a proxy running our apps.

we'll see how well it works.


----------



## dpeters11

If at all possible, I'd start just looking at moving over to 64 bit, using 32 bit apps where needed.

There was a discussion when we were moving to Windows 7 whether to stay 32, and I ended up telling them that they really didn't have a choice, that the system had to at least be 64 bit compatible.


----------



## heathramos

I have just started playing with windows 8 and I was wondering why people are dead set against it from a business perspective?

The learning curve will be pretty steep for the average user, for sure but I'm betting it will be functional.

Uninstall all apps that require a microsoft account, block access to the windows store at the firewall, pin typical apps to the start menu, help users place shortcuts to apps/websites/folders to the start menu and make sure they can print. Certain people will complain like crazy about the interface and I wouldn't choose to go to this in general but so far I haven't found a show stopper. I haven't started testing engineering apps, however. I also haven't started looking at group policy settings that directly affect Windows 8 PCs. I was able to install apps from the windows store logged on to the domain and using a microsoft account without syncing but I had to run a command because I'm behind a proxy server.

There are things I don't like, however. A metro app closes differently and can do the uneven split screen but standard apps just go to the desktop and open like they normally would (including having an X to close the app). I really think that is just sloppy. The interface should act the same no matter what kind of app you are opening. But hey...that's just me whining. It would also be nice if metro apps like mail and calendar linked to an Exchange Server and not just to hotmail.

I will continue to play with it next week.


----------



## Kung

heathramos said:


> I have just started playing with windows 8 and I was wondering why people are dead set against it from a business perspective?


Having spent a month or two with it, I feel I'm pretty qualified in saying that it's because it's not quite ready.

The move from Windows Vista to 7 was, for me, largely noneventful. Not so for 7 to 8. While it's a noticeable speed increase, I've seen two or three BSOD's, multiple update failures, and so on.


----------



## dpeters11

From a business perspective, many companies are just now upgrading from XP to 7. They have apps that may not be compatible with the OS or require sites that aren't ie 10 compatible. I'd se them upgrading domain controllers and file servers before client systems.


----------



## djlong

heathramos said:


> I have just started playing with windows 8 and I was wondering why people are dead set against it from a business perspective?
> 
> ...
> 
> Uninstall all apps that require a microsoft account, block access to the windows store at the firewall, pin typical apps to the start menu, help users place shortcuts to apps/websites/folders to the start menu and make sure they can print. Certain people will complain like crazy about the interface and I wouldn't choose to go to this in general but so far I haven't found a show stopper.


You answered your own question. Why should a company pay more money to Microsoft in upgrade fees only to have to pay MORE money to wrap a box around WIndows 8, RE-train users and THEN have something their people don't want.

All downside, no upside, and costs more.


----------



## dpeters11

Windows 8 does have benefits, just not enough especially since they are still just going to 7 in many cases. Server 2012 is definitely going to be different.


----------



## Getteau

heathramos said:


> I have just started playing with windows 8 and I was wondering why people are dead set against it from a business perspective?
> 
> The learning curve will be pretty steep for the average user, for sure but I'm betting it will be functional.
> 
> Uninstall all apps that require a microsoft account, block access to the windows store at the firewall, pin typical apps to the start menu, help users place shortcuts to apps/websites/folders to the start menu and make sure they can print. Certain people will complain like crazy about the interface and I wouldn't choose to go to this in general but so far I haven't found a show stopper.
> ...


As djlong said, you answered your own question. For < 10 or 20 users, what you described may work. However, multiply your steps by 5000, 10,000, 20,000 + desktops and you'll see why no one has any real desire to roll this out.


----------



## satcrazy

IMO.
7 will be the new XP.

[ remember the XP to Vista transition? Right.] There are still many companies running XP because it works, and they are tired of paying the high cost of OS roullette.

8 is geared towards the teckies and home use.


----------



## Shades228

I think Metro UI gives more functionality faster after 10 minutes of changing what's pinned. I think that 90% of the complaints would be gone if My Computer, Control Panel, and Search were pinned by default. 

If you make the UI work for you it's very good. If you try to fight it the whole time it's just going to get frustrating like most things.


----------



## djlong

The Metro/Modern/OopsWeForgotToTrademarkSomething UI is far better suited for tables and phones, slightly less so for touch screen PCs and horrible for someone with lots of applications that they use - like a developer.

My Win 7 taskbar has one-button immediate access to the entire Office suite (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint, OneNote, Outlook), Chrome, Visual Studio 2010, SQL Server Management, UltraEdit, UltraCompare, iTunes and a few other utilities while NOT blocking the background wallpaper that I customized. What's worse is that, after installing Win 8 on a spare laptop and using the "Win+D" to get to the desktop I discovered the Start Button really WAS gone - even from the desktop ($5 got me a replacement: Start8)

I honestly don't know what MS was smoking. Not when they made Metro - that's not the bad thing - but making it so that you HAD to boot to Metro and could NOT have the desktop by default. This does NOT pass what I call "The Mommy Test".


----------



## Cholly

Re: the Start Button. I use this: www.windows8startbutton.com
It gives me the classic Windows 7 start screen with all its goodies *and* shut down.
I still have the capability to revert to the Windows 8 interface if I so desire.
So far, I've found Windows 8 to be stable. I've also discovered at least one program that works with Windows 8 that did not work with Windows 7 -- Nikon's Picture Project photo editing software.
I have one hardware related problem: my Seagate 1 TB Backup Plus drive fails to be recognized more often than not - the drive apparently tries to initialize before my WD USB3 adapter has been started. This is a common problem with Backup Plus drives (regardless of OS) that Seagate fails to acknowledge (just check their forums). They have yet to release a USB3 adapter for the drives.
One other quirk: upon startup, I get a good connection with my Netgear dual band wireless network adapter, but it quickly goes away and the system then goes through the process of hunting for a connection again and establishes it. This is on the 5 GHz radio -- I haven't tried on 2 GHz.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Why is it bad for business? Because businesses aren't going to up and reinvest in touchscreens overnight. Many business PCs are 3+ years old and that's a problem. Using Win8 "the way they want you to" requires a touchscreen or extremely large touchpad.

If I "had" to use Win8 for work I would install Start8 or any of the other Start Screen replacements and simply use it as I used a Windows 7 device. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Microsoft's new OS.

I have spent a lot of time with 8 at home, and I've learned a lot of keyboard shortcuts that help. Not that keyboard shortcuts are really the best way to go... isn't that why people got mice? But nonetheless I figured out how to show a clock when I want one, I installed Chrome so I don't have to use the bizarrely nonfunctional Internet Explorer version in the "Windows Store environment" (or whatever they call it) and by and large I ignore the start screen because the live tiles are a huge distraction when I'm trying to get things done. 

Pretty sad when the best feature of a flagship OS is that you can pretty much make it look and act like the old one.


----------



## Shades228

Stuart Sweet said:


> Why is it bad for business? Because businesses aren't going to up and reinvest in touchscreens overnight. Many business PCs are 3+ years old and that's a problem. Using Win8 "the way they want you to" requires a touchscreen or extremely large touchpad.
> 
> If I "had" to use Win8 for work I would install Start8 or any of the other Start Screen replacements and simply use it as I used a Windows 7 device. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Microsoft's new OS.
> 
> I have spent a lot of time with 8 at home, and I've learned a lot of keyboard shortcuts that help. Not that keyboard shortcuts are really the best way to go... isn't that why people got mice? But nonetheless I figured out how to show a clock when I want one, I installed Chrome so I don't have to use the bizarrely nonfunctional Internet Explorer version in the "Windows Store environment" (or whatever they call it) and by and large I ignore the start screen because the live tiles are a huge distraction when I'm trying to get things done.
> 
> Pretty sad when the best feature of a flagship OS is that you can pretty much make it look and act like the old one.


Maybe I'm just a fan but I could see how Metro would make a great office environment. The ability to just have all of the programs you need on the front page of metro.

Live tiles can be disabled just by right clicking on them and turning off the live updates.

I do agree that the metro IE is a waste of time and they should have just used the regular version if it's installed. If they had forced everyone to use metro to start without a destop option then it would have even more complaints. However I think that once people start to customize it they will start to see the benefits of it.

The largest reason's that companies won't adopt it immediately is the same reason they didn't adopt Vista, or 7. It has to do more with their support level rather than what's out there now. Then there's the whole custom software aspects. Microsoft could give companies free licenses for a year to swap early and most large companies would not do it because of security and program compatibility reasons.


----------



## houskamp

from what I've seen of it it's just another product in microsoft's "we want to go out of buisness" plan..
ie9 is a joke, 10 even worse.. why make a web browser that can't view the web that's out there?
now they build win8 and make it for a 3yr old kid..that kind of main screen is for things that don't have enough power to run multiple things.. that's why we use them on phones and tablets.. you have to dump/switch/reload stuff.. on a PC you leave them running and just switch view..

my OS is for running programs, I don't really care what it looks like.. there are some new things in 7 that I like but really the win98se look worked fine too.. I could get to programs, switch quickly, and copy/paste between them..


----------



## harsh

Shades228 said:


> Maybe I'm just a fan but I could see how Metro would make a great office environment. The ability to just have all of the programs you need on the front page of metro.


I'm taken back to GEOS on the Commodore 64.

I'm not convinced that being able to see a relatively large tile is ultimately a more effective representation of what's going on than the tabs in the Taskbar.

Extra (or longer) steps in navigation abound; a hallmark of later versions of Windows (especially the Control Panel).


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Shades228, keep fighting the good fight. As of yet you're the only person I know who actually likes Windows 8 for what it is. I'll disable all the live tile functionality, that's a good idea. Might even try to find a clock app. 

Overall I am reminded to Apple's switch to the G3 processors about 14 years ago. It was a good computer, if you bought a floppy drive, a keyboard with all the function keys, a functioning mouse, a zip drive (hey, it was 1998) and the adapter you need to use a VGA monitor. Then you had a functioning computer. 

In a predictable move, Apple appeased professional users in the next generation, bringing back a usable mouse and keyboard, allowing for internal zip drives, industry standard monitor ports and hey, they even decided not to make the computer bright blue. Microsoft, are you listening and learning? 

This is like that. Start with Windows8, put the start button back on the desktop, turn off the live tiles, buy a huge touchpad, possibly a second monitor, and hey you might have all the functionality you had last week provided you are willing to learn the new gestures and keyboard shortcuts. 

Change is good. Change that makes people more productive and more engaged is good. Change that removes productivity and makes people wonder why they bothered is not.


----------



## Marlin Guy

I've been setting a new laptop this weekend with Windows 8. It's a mistake to put it on a non-touch device.

That being said, the absolute best thing to know about Windows 8 is "Windows Key + X".


----------



## pfp

Marlin Guy said:


> I've been setting a new laptop this weekend with Windows 8. It's a mistake to put it on a non-touch device.
> 
> That being said, the absolute best thing to know about Windows 8 is "Windows Key + X".


Agreed. 
My $.02 something like Start8 is required and makes it perfectly workable.


----------



## heathramos

one thing I read about Windows 8 that sounded interesting is that the built in mail client supports ActiveSync.

I was thinking users could use that instead of Outlook offsite and wouldn't need Outlook Anywhere anymore.

Of course the Mail client makes you sign on to a Microsoft account so that sucks.

I guess I would need Outlook 2013 for that feature.


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## Stuart Sweet

I've been trying to use Mail with an Exchange account but it's kind of a drag. Even the web client for Outlook is better. In fact using Mail with multiple accounts is an exercise in hair pulling. You'll get an audio cue that you have a message but have no idea what account it's on, so you have to keep pushing buttons until you find it.


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