# According to Dish CSR: Recording 3 things at once not officially supported.



## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

Some background.

I've been having a problem with disappearing scheduled OTA recordings, so I called Dish support and explained that I would setup "New" recordings of OTA shows, that would be in the schedule when initially setup, however the next day, they are gone from the schedule, even though the timer is still there.

I subscribe to the Dish locals so that I can get the OTA guide data (which BTW, doesn't have anything for WCBS-HD, it just says Digital Service).

Here's what I've been able to determine:

- I don't have a problem with OTA timers with the Superstations (UPN/WB).
- I have a problem with timers on the OTA HD locals (they're there the day they are setup, but are gone the next day or later).
- The search function doesn't find anything in the OTA locals guide data.
- The search funtion does find shows in the OTA Superstations (WB/UPN).

For example, If I setup a timer for Grey's Anatomy on 007-01 (OTA), the channel guide shows a green (1) indicating that it's scheduled for 5/7, but when I go forward to next Sunday (5/14), nothing is scheduled, and when I select the timer to display the schedule, only 5/7 is selected, even though the 5/14 show is also a new episode. When I search for "Grey's Anatomy" it finds the Dish channels 007-00, 245, 6300, 8100, but the OTA 007-01 isn't found, even though the show info is in the channel guide.

When I called Dish I tried to explain the above problem I was having, and I told them that I sometimes have 3 things recording (2 Dish, and 1 OTA), they said that recording 3 shows at once is not a supported function because it's a dual tuner receiver. I told them that I do it all the time and it works like a charm as long as the OTA channel I'm recording is one of the Superstations (UPN9, WB11). I also told them that since it also has the OTA tuner, bringing the total of tuners to 3, then recording 3 things at once should be supported without a problem.

Anyway, I couldn't get a straight answer from the CSR as to why the search function doesn't include the OTA locals, when it works just fine with the OTA Superstations.

Anyone else having a similar problem?

ETA: I just want to clarify that the OTA timers I setup are there in the timer list, they're just not triggering anything, so nothing shows up in the schedule.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Or course recording 3 things at once is supported...that's what it's designed to do. That answer from that CSR is a load of crap.

I record 3 things at once all the time on my 622, and it works all the time. Do you notice anything wrong with your OTA guide data, either all the time or intermittently? What time do you have your daily update set for, and do you have any other receivers in the house that are set for a daily update at the same time?


The only thing I can think of is that there's something going on with your guide data.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

Recording 3 shows at once works just fine and my OTA-HD timers all work just fine.

.....G


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

My 622 is set to update at 5AM, and I have 3 other receivers (1 501 and 2 510's).

All the Dish local XXX-00 channel guide data matches exactly the OTA xxx-01 data for NBC,FOX,ABC,UPN and WB. The only OTA XXX-01 channel with missing data is CBS (002-01) which just shows Digital Service.

Like I said in my original post, I also record 3 shows at once 2 Dish tuners + 1 OTA tuner all the time. I believe the timer/schedule problem I'm having is related to the OTA guide data not being included in the search to update the schedule after the daily guide update. 

What's strange is that it works like a charm with UPN and WB OTA shows, and setting up the recording is not the problem, it's the next day or two when the schedule doesn't show what was there before, even though no changes were made to the timers or the guide data.

It could also may be related to the accuracy (or lack of) of the PSIP.

BTW, I reviewed the 622 manual and didn't find anything specific about how many simultaneous recordings it can do.


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## rickmac (Jan 14, 2006)

I have found shows that you record that don't contain the word "new" in the show discription fail and the show is not recorded.

I use the "weekly" flag.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

jvidalc said:


> - The search funtion does find shows in the OTA Superstations (WB/UPN). ...


How do you get the Supersations OTA?


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## LEDGE (Apr 3, 2005)

jvidalc said:


> Some background.
> 
> I've been having a problem with disappearing scheduled OTA recordings, so I called Dish support and explained that I would setup "New" recordings of OTA shows, that would be in the schedule when initially setup, however the next day, they are gone from the schedule, even though the timer is still there.
> 
> ...


I am having the same problem.I just recieved a replacement 622 the first one kept rebooting,the new one was working fine with no reboots but when I set up OTA timers they first show up in schedual the next day they are gone the timer is still there.Sunday am the schedules were back again by the evening when the fist one was due to fire it did not I checked and the schedule was empty again.I then tried to record on three timers they fired for about 20 min,then locked up.I had to do a power button reboot.when I tried to replay what was recorded one recorded ok the OTA recorded some of the show then locked the other had sound but no picture.the unit locked up again.All the information was still on the guide.THis morning the 622 rebooted twice in 45 min.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I have not had a problem in recording 1 OTA and 2 Satellite HD or SD programs at the same time. I have encountered problems when 2 recordings are in progress and I wish to change channels to view something else. I will get an error window stating that that in order to perform my request, I need to stop recording the current program. I have not spent enough time to determine if they were both tuner 1, or a combo of tuner 1 & tuner 2. I have not tired to see if there is a work around. It seems that if a tuner is free then I should be able to use it for live viewing.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

re: disappearing timers....

Did you try to disable channel down-mapping? I believe you're not having trouble with the superstations because you're getting them OTA only and there is no conflict with a dish channel.

This has been discussed MANY times:

search the 622 forum for:
"timer disappear"


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

I get UPN and WB from dish also 009-00 and 011-00, the OTA Superstations are 009-01 and 011-01.

Just to be clear, the problem isn't recording 3 shows, it's the timer/schedule aren't in sync after a while. The timer and schedule are initially OK, it's just later on when the schedule doesn't reflect what the timers have, and this only happens on the OTA Locals. The Dish locals and Superstations along with the OTA Superstations don't have this problem.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

boylehome said:


> ...It seems that if a tuner is free then I should be able to use it for live viewing.


Yup, that *is* the way it works for the two satellite tuners. If you are recording simultaneously two satellite programs, and which to switch tuners to the OTA tuner, you can not simply press Raise Channel or Lower Channel. Rather, Press Guide and select an OTA program and you'll be there... recording two satellite programs and also viewing any OTA offering.


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## dlhuse (Apr 3, 2006)

David_Levin said:


> re: disappearing timers....
> 
> Did you try to disable channel down-mapping? I believe you're not having trouble with the superstations because you're getting them OTA only and there is no conflict with a dish channel.
> 
> ...


David,

I have called CSRs and have been told that "disableing downmapping is disabled in this release".

You see, I've disabled and went back to check and it is still downmapping locals.


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## abricko (Mar 1, 2006)

My 622 has never missed recording a show, and I often record 3 shows (either all HD or a mix or HD / SD) at once while watching 1 show back. One of the coolest features is, if i'm recording using both sat tuners i can flip over to a local channel and flip up and down channels never messing up my sat recordings. I believe you need to make your OTA locals priority to map down and leave the LILs in their native 6XXX and 8XXX range. However, I do live in the LA area and EVERY channel broadcasts digitally so I get more digital LILs than Dish can provide to me, so I set up my unit this way.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

jvidalc said:


> I get UPN and WB from dish also 009-00 and 011-00, the OTA Superstations are 009-01 and 011-01.
> 
> Just to be clear, the problem isn't recording 3 shows, it's the timer/schedule aren't in sync after a while. The timer and schedule are initially OK, it's just later on when the schedule doesn't reflect what the timers have, and this only happens on the OTA Locals. The Dish locals and Superstations along with the OTA Superstations don't have this problem.


jv. have you used the "schedule" section after setting up the Grey's timer? I try to review my "schedule" at least once a week, because I've noticed new show sometimes get skipped, and old shows sometimes are set to record.

After you set up a Grey's timer for example, open the "schedule" with skipped items showing, and scroll to the next Sunday. See if Grey's is there and showing set to record, or not. If not, highlight and view that recording by hitting select. At the top of the window it should say if the show is a duplicate or not a new event, and there should be a "restore" option as the top right button. It might be that the show data is missing something which is confusing the "new" shows function, and you might need to set a straight timer, or check it weekly for any oddities.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

Here's what's happening.

On Saturday, I setup a timer for new G.A. shows, then when I checked the schedule, there was an entry for 5/7, and nothing for 5/14 or 5/15 (5/7, 5/14 and 5/15 are all new episodes).
The next day the schedule entry for 5/7 was gone, even though the timer entry was still there. Then I created another timer, and a schedule entry was created for 5/7, and now there were two timers, one with no matching schedule and one with.
I'm thinking that the code used to create a schedule entry from a timer for OTA locals, is different from the code used to refresh the schedule.

FYI, the problem also occurs for one time recordings of OTA locals as well.

I live in NJ a few miles from midtown Manhattan, where the OTA are broadcast from, and I receive all the OTA locals/Superstations with a signal strength ranging between 80 and 100.

The only reason I subscibe to the locals package is so that I can setup multiple HD recordings of local shows, and so I can get guide data for OTA locals.

What's puzzling, is that the timers for UPN (009-01) and WB11 (011-01), don't have this problem.
Also when I search for a show, the results list doesn't find the OTA locals (even when I select the search through the channel guide), but it does find shows in the OTA Superstations UPN/WB, and this is probably why the schedules don't reflect the timers for the OTA locals.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jvidalc - I've been informed that there may be a bug in the channel downmapping when set to downmap the HD locals that can cause what you're describing. I don't use the downmapping feature myself, which is probably why I haven't run into this one. 

Temporary workaround - set your timers to record on the non-downmapped channels (probably somewhere in the 6000's).


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> Yup, that *is* the way it works for the two satellite tuners. If you are recording simultaneously two satellite programs, and which to switch tuners to the OTA tuner, you can not simply press Raise Channel or Lower Channel. Rather, Press Guide and select an OTA program and you'll be there... recording two satellite programs and also viewing any OTA offering.


SaltiDawy,

So what you are saying is that if I have a free tuner, I can go into my EPG and from there I can select and view a different channel?

Thanks,

John


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

Are you saying that if I disable the mapping of the locals, and just leave the low channel numbers for OTA, that the timer/schedule would stay in sync?

I'll try it tonight when I get home.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

boylehome said:


> ...
> 
> So what you are saying is that if I have a free tuner, I can go into my EPG and from there I can select and view a different channel?


Well, that is true. However, if you are recording and also viewing ONE *satellite* program, just go to Up Channel or Down Channel and you will change channel on another tuner.

The only time that I *must* go to the EPG is when *both* Sat Tuners are recording and I wish to go to the OTA tuner.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> Well, that is true. However, if you are recording and also viewing ONE *satellite* program, just go to Up Channel or Down Channel and you will change channel on another tuner.
> 
> The only time that I *must* go to the EPG is when *both* Sat Tuners are recording and I wish to go to the OTA tuner.


I'll start using this procedure. Thanks for the tip.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jvidalc said:


> Are you saying that if I disable the mapping of the locals, and just leave the low channel numbers for OTA, that the timer/schedule would stay in sync?
> 
> I'll try it tonight when I get home.


That's exactly what I'm saying.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

dlhuse said:


> You see, I've disabled and went back to check and it is still downmapping locals.


I've disabled all channel downmapping (Sat SD & HD). All that's left in the guide are my OTA channels. I set all timers to be either OTA (009-1), or Sat HD (6000's), or Sat SD (8000's).

I was definately seeing the problem, and I haven't since.

I believe it was posted that you can't disable the downmapping while there are timers set to use the channels. You might need to move all the timers off the downmapped channels first.

After I was done, I believe if took a reboot for the scheduled events to correct itself.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

Mark, 
I removed the Dish HD remapping of local channels, and it appears to have fixed the problem. The search of shows finds all shows including the OTA. 

I created a timer for G.A. and it found both the Sunday night episode and the Monday night season finale.

So It looks promising.

I'll know for sure in the next day or two.

If that is the problem I hope they have a fix in the next software update. It's a hassle when the local channels are spread out in multiple channel guide screens. Viewing the channel guide is much simpler when all the locals are all together and in sequence (2,4,5,7,9,11).

Thanks for you help. 

ETA, I couldn't disable the mapping, but instead set it to map the SD locals, and that accomplished the same thing. The search finds the OTA shows, and when it was set to HD, it didn't work.


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## LEDGE (Apr 3, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying.


I tried this. I deleted all timers ,deleted all fav.lists,set down mapping for SD did a power plug reboot.I then reset all timers.all OTA schedules had listings.last night I had 3 timers set for the same time and they all fired ok and recorded ok.I've had no reboots.I checked this morning and all the OTA timers are there,the guide if full but all schedules for OTA timers are empty

P.S. I rechecked the schedule this evening and they were all there.All fired and worked ok.three recordedat the same time.only problem was when all three finished recording and went to record the next show the 622 rebooted then was ok


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Or course recording 3 things at once is supported...that's what it's designed to do. That answer from that CSR is a load of crap. ...


Mark,

Of course you are right - I also sometimes record three programs simultaneously.

That said, the manual only discusses recording *two* programs at a time. (At least I can not find any discussion of setting *three* timers.)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

They actually discussed recording 3 things at the same time last night on the Tech chat.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

I checked the timer/schedule this morning and the schedule was still showing the OTA timers I setup last night, so I'm hoping they have a solution to this bug and that it's fixed in the next software update.

So the moral of the story is:

If you want the timers using the OTA tuner to work correctly, don't map the Dish HD locals to the local broadcast channel numbers. Either disable the mapping or map the SD locals.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

See the picture as proof that three DVR events can be recorded at the same time.



SaltiDawg said:


> Not one person in this thread has said that three could not be recorded.


I agree with you and the other posters here. There most likely are doubters, and for those who may doubt or are basing a decision on getting a 622 for the option of being able to record with 2 satellite tuners and 1 OTA tuner, then this is just one more piece of the pie in the decision process.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

boylehome said:


> See the picture as proof that three DVR events can be recorded at the same time.


Not one person in this thread has said that three could not be recorded.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

the first person did, via what he was told by an idiot CSR. hence boyle was just providing visual proof for that person and anyone not sure.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

1- I never said you can't record three things at once.

2- The Dish CSR never said you can't record three things at once.

What I said was "The Dish CSR said it wasn't supported", which to me means that if you have a problem with recording three things at once they can't help you. (even this statement may not be true, since the subject was discussed in the Tech Chat last night).

"It can't be done" and "It's not supported" are two completely different things.


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## dlhuse (Apr 3, 2006)

jvidalc said:


> 1- I never said you can't record three things at once.
> 
> 2- The Dish CSR never said you can't record three things at once.


Actually, a CSR DID tell me you could not record three programs at the same time.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are a lot of things that a CSR can't help you with. 

Bottom line: The 622 CAN record three things at a time and play back two other things (or the same thing twice) all at the same time. Your timer issues are most likely related to the way they are set up ... timer conflicts ... than related to recording three things at the same time.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> the first person did, via what he was told by an idiot CSR. hence boyle was just providing visual proof for that person and anyone not sure.


Did not. :lol:

You're just trying to stir the pot.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

My timer issues have already been explained (bug when Dish HD locals are mapped to local broadcast channels), and have nothing to do with timer conflicts.

Actually, when I called about my timer issues, the subject of how many things are schedule to be recorded came up, and that's when the CSR said it's not supported.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Glad we could help with this. I also hope that it gets fixed in the next release. BTW, Ron Barry is the one that gave me the downmap info, and deserves all of the credit for the workaround. Thanks Ron!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well Mark, thanks for the kudos, but actually I would give it to the users here. I personally have done a lot of testing with this scenario since I also ran into it and have been been able to duplicate what some users have been experiencing but the work around came out of users helping users. I now David Levin, rbeyer, and others have been discussing this issue from time to time. One other thing I noticed that if you have HD Priority set but your channel does not show an HD map down that channel will work properly. 

One thing to remember... HD Mapping started working with no software update and is definitely new code (bit different than the 942 for sure). So there was something external that trigged the functionality and it looks like it introduced a side effect. Lets hope this one is fixed soon, but I am sure this issue is not as simple as it might seem on the outside.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> So there was something external that trigged the functionality and it looks like it introduced a side effect.


For the map down to work (on any channel including SD) E* has to transmit the 'low' channel number in a special field in the "Service Descriptor Table". When E* first uplinked HDs they left that field off of the descriptors (making map down impossible). The map down also only works if the channel's market matches part of the 'blackout' table, IIRC.

So if they uplinked a set of HDs without the mapdown field or with a bad market descriptor the mapdown just won't work, regardless of what version of software the receiver has loaded.

Think about it as having a web browser capable of HTTPS connections pulling up a blank page. The browser can do HTTPS, it just doesn't have content on the page it is pointed at. That problem is fixed by putting content on the page, not by updating the browser. 

This tech tip brought to you by: Insomnia.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

That makes sense James.. Thanks!


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking that maybe, when the HD channels are mapped to the low channel #, some piece of HD data matches and/or has a higher priority than the OTA data, and this somehow prevents the OTA data from being used properly, or something along those lines.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HD via satellite should map down replacing the SD via sattelite channels, leaving the DT OTA channels alone -
For example, in my market -
WNDU SD at 7091 maps down to 016-00 (if there is no HD sat channel or SD only is selected)
WNDU HD at 63xx maps down to 016-00 (if HD priority is selected an the channel is actually up on satellite)
WNDU-DT OTA's subchannels map to 016-01 and 016-02 ... with EPG data for 016-01 (which matches 7091 in content).

63xx and 7092 could conflict with each other if there was a priority of mapping error (since they would both want to be mapped to 016-00) but neither should interfere with the OTA 016-01 or 016-02.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

The keyword there being "should".

Below was my local channel setup when I was having problems with timers/schedules:

002-00 CBS Dish HD local
002-01 CBS OTA local
004-00 NBC Dish HD local
004-01 NBC OTA local
005-00 FOX Dish HD local
005-01 FOX OTA local
007-00 ABC Dish HD local
007-01 ABC OTA local
009-00 UPN Dish
009-01 UPN OTA
011-00 WB Dish
011-01 WB OTA

Here's my current setup that no longer causes problems with the timer/schedule:

002-00 CBS Dish SD local
002-01 CBS OTA local
004-00 NBC Dish SD local
004-01 NBC OTA local
005-00 FOX Dish SD local
005-01 FOX OTA local
007-00 ABC Dish SD local
007-01 ABC OTA local
009-00 UPN Dish
009-01 UPN OTA
011-00 WB Dish
011-01 WB OTA

I had to change all the timers for CBS,NBC,FOX and ABC to use the HD locals in the 63XX range, instead of 02,04,05,07.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This makes it all sound like the mapping (or re-mapping) is only partially working. That is to say... working from a visual to the customer standpoint (you can see the 63xx channel as xx-00) BUT not to the DVR.

If I had to guess... I'd bet the software is still recognizing the channel where it is pre-mapping, even though the mapping makes it appear in the EPG correctly. If that is the case, then who knows what the receiver is trying to do when it gives the error or just doesn't fire the timer.

It's just a wild guess since I don't have a ViP series receiver yet nor if I did would I actually have access to the inner-workings of the software... but with my programming experience, based on the problems reported here this would be my best guess to start looking.

Something in the mapping process isn't getting saved or "remembered" properly it would seem to make it a complete re-mapping to all features of the DVR.


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## jvidalc (Aug 30, 2002)

HDMe, 
The timer problem I was having had to do with the schedule not finding any episodes in the OTA 02,04,05, and 07 channels when the Dish HD locals were mapped. 

I didn't have any timer/schedule problems with the Dish HD local in the 02,04,05,07 range.

This prevented me from scheduling any OTA recordings (they only worked when using 09-01 and 11-01, since these two don't have an equivalent Dish HD).

So basically, mapping the Dish HD locals broke something in the OTA locals.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well there is also the wrinkler where you createa one time timer for an OTA with HD Priority set and it will correctly fire (If done on the same day). If you remove the mapping then the OTA channels are correctly found. 

Hard to say what the root cause is. Good news is that this one is easy to reproduce if you have HD locals that remap and is easly to explain. These two things usually equate being able to determine root cause. Hopefullly the root cause does not require a ton of code to resolve.


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