# Price changes?



## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

I did some quick searching, but maybe I am missing the thread discussing this. Did Dish just up their pricing?

I have the Top 120 package and it was $44.99/month. And my DVR fee was $6. My brand new bill suddenly shows Top 120 at $49.99/month -- and a DVR fee of $7.

Was this announced and well known? I guess I haven't been paying attention lately...

- John...


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

See DISH Price Increase announced started on December 19.


----------



## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Thanks -- I must not have went back far enough through the threads since no one had said anything in there for almost a month (which is a little odd, since lots of people would be getting those first bills with the change over the past couple of weeks).

In any case, thanks!

- John...


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jgoggan said:


> Thanks -- I must not have went back far enough through the threads since no one had said anything in there for almost a month (which is a little odd, since lots of people would be getting those first bills with the change over the past couple of weeks).
> 
> In any case, thanks!
> 
> - John...


Yes, we'll start to see some posts. But there's not much to say that wasn't said in the earlier thread.


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Dish usually announces their price increases in December with it going into effect with your January billing.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I received the mailing on it a couple of weeks ago ... separate from any bill.


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Me too.

Also, I added that info to the FAQ a few weeks ago.


----------



## karrank% (Sep 20, 2009)

Never got any acknowledgement of a price increase, wouldn't have known if it wasn't for this forum. 

Oh, yeah, and the bill.


----------



## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

I get my bills online so I never get a mailed announcement. If not for DBSTALK I still wouldn't know about the price increase. Still haven't figured out what it's going to cost me. Won't see it in my bill for another 4 weeks. 

I've said it before but I wish DISH would send an email or letter explaining exactly how my bill is going to change when they raise prices. This is the computer age. How hard could it be?


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

I have online autopay billing and i got a packet from Dish explaining it yesterday.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jgoggan said:


> I did some quick searching, but maybe I am missing the thread discussing this. Did Dish just up their pricing?
> 
> I have the Top 120 package and it was $44.99/month. And my DVR fee was $6. My brand new bill suddenly shows Top 120 at $49.99/month -- and a DVR fee of $7.
> 
> ...


$5 more a month.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

i just got my notice today and called customer service (a complete waste of time). if you have a locked in two ear contract like me, i suggest making a complaint with the better business bureau. i have done this in the past with very good results, not just with dish. dish, like any company or person should live up to agreements they make. if enough people complain, they will lose that A- BBB rating that they list on the packet i got today and maybe they will change their completely one sided policy about two year contracts. i am completely happy with their product, but things like this should not be part of any business practice. 

i just checked the BBB website and found this about dish. maybe this helps. 

Dish Network encourages consumers to contact Dish Network's designated customer relations contact at their Executive Offices, who can be reached at 1-888 826-8137 prior to filing a complaint through our office. Dish Network has committed to address these calls by providing consumers with an adequate response within two business days.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3170986 said:


> i just got my notice today and called customer service (a complete waste of time). if you have a locked in two ear contract like me, i suggest making a complaint with the better business bureau. i have done this in the past with very good results, not just with dish. dish, like any company or person should live up to agreements they make. if enough people complain, they will lose that A- BBB rating that they list on the packet i got today and maybe they will change their completely one sided policy about two year contracts. i am completely happy with their product, but things like this should not be part of any business practice.
> 
> i just checked the BBB website and found this about dish. maybe this helps.
> 
> Dish Network encourages consumers to contact Dish Network's designated customer relations contact at their Executive Offices, who can be reached at 1-888 826-8137 prior to filing a complaint through our office. Dish Network has committed to address these calls by providing consumers with an adequate response within two business days.


The BBB? Now that's funny! What a racket that is. You pay for a rating. You do not earn it.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> The BBB? Now that's funny! What a racket that is. You pay for a rating. You do not earn it.


i believe you pay to be accredited, not rated.

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-...d-satellite/dish-network-in-englewood-co-6370


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3170997 said:


> i believe you pay to be accredited, not rated.
> 
> http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-reviews/television-cable-catv-and-satellite/dish-network-in-englewood-co-6370


No. It's a crooked organization. Do some research on it.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

husker61 said:


> i just got my notice today and called customer service (a complete waste of time). if you have a locked in two ear contract like me,


I don't remember Dish ever doing a 2-year locked in pricing deal.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

lparsons21 said:


> I don't remember Dish ever doing a 2-year locked in pricing deal.


what would you call a two year deal (you pay $xx.xx for the first 12 months, $xx.xx for the last 12 months, along with the other fees agreed to) that you can't cancel unless you pay a cancellation fee?


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

husker61 said:


> i just got my notice today and called customer service (a complete waste of time). if you have a locked in two ear contract like me, i suggest making a complaint with the better business bureau. i have done this in the past with very good results, not just with dish. dish, like any company or person should live up to agreements they make. if enough people complain, they will lose that A- BBB rating that they list on the packet i got today and maybe they will change their completely one sided policy about two year contracts. i am completely happy with their product, but things like this should not be part of any business practice.
> 
> i just checked the BBB website and found this about dish. maybe this helps.
> 
> Dish Network encourages consumers to contact Dish Network's designated customer relations contact at their Executive Offices, who can be reached at 1-888 826-8137 prior to filing a complaint through our office. Dish Network has committed to address these calls by providing consumers with an adequate response within two business days.


Can you show me a document that says Dish will lock in your payment? Rarely do they do that. Many confuse the promo price as locked in, it's not, what is locked in however is whatever less you are paying than the regular price. If you were paying $10 less a month, you still will.

And I'm with the others. BBB? Lmao.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'd call that the standard deal and it doesn't give you a price guarantee. Read the TOS and you'll see that they can (and often do) change things around and that you agreed to when you signed up.

Basically you've signed up for 1st year discounts from whatever the retail price is, they do tend to not raise your cost during that first year, but there is nothing in the contract that forces them to do that. And the second year is at whatever the 2nd year retail price is.

Again, they may or may not have some price protection deal put into place, but they are under no requirement to do so since the offer didn't guarantee that.

That said, I do think that if they require you to have a 2 year contract, it should be at a fixed price. It just doesn't happen that way.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

tampa8 said:


> Can you show me a document that says Dish will lock in your payment? Rarely do they do that. Many confuse the promo price as locked in, it's not, what is locked in however is whatever less you are paying than the regular price. If you were paying $10 less a month, you still will.
> 
> And I'm with the others. BBB? Lmao.


so that means i can cancel my service and two year contract (giving up any futuer discount) with out paying a penalty?


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171025 said:


> what would you call a two year deal (you pay $xx.xx for the first 12 months, $xx.xx for the last 12 months, along with the other fees agreed to) that you can't cancel unless you pay a cancellation fee?


...that's called a term commitment. Your price is not locked.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Nope, doesn't mean that at all.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171040 said:


> so that means i can cancel my service and two year contract (giving up any futuer discount) with out paying a penalty?


No, but that is different from a price lock.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

lparsons21 said:


> That said, I do think that if they require you to have a 2 year contract, it should be at a fixed price. It just doesn't happen that way.


that's my point. it is a VERY deceptive business practice and completely one sided! it's been going on for a long time and some govt agency should look into it. i don't have any problem with a company raising fees, but it has to be done when the consumer has the option to purchase from someone else.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

"ONLINE BONUS
Congratulations! With your completed online purchase, you’ll be eligible for the automatic Online Bonus Credit shown below, saving you up to $25 off your monthly programming package price each month for 12 months".


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

tampa8 said:


> "ONLINE BONUS
> Congratulations! With your completed online purchase, you'll be eligible for the automatic Online Bonus Credit shown below, saving you up to $25 off your monthly programming package price each month for 12 months".


where is the part about our advertised price means absolutely nothing.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171052 said:


> that's my point. it is a VERY deceptive business practice and completely one sided! it's been going on for a long time and some govt agency should look into it. i don't have any problem with a company raising fees, but it has to be done when the consumer has the option to purchase from someone else.


This tells me that you do not understand the reason for the two year commitment.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> This tells me that you do not understand the reason for the two year commitment.


let's see. you get a discount for the first 12 months, then pay full price for the next 12. if there wasn't a 24 month agreement, people would cancel after the first 12 months. i have absolutely no problem with this. my issue is with raising fees AFTER what i believe most people think a deal was agreed to. it's very deceptive and should be looked into by some regulatory authority.


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

If people fail at reading comprehension, it's not Dish's fault. it says right on the website, 'promotional price for 12 months with a 24 month agreement, monthly DVR and receiver fees apply'.

It's not deceptive when you can't read.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171211 said:


> let's see. you get a discount for the first 12 months, then pay full price for the next 12. if there wasn't a 24 month agreement, people would cancel after the first 12 months. i have absolutely no problem with this. my issue is with raising fees AFTER what i believe most people think a deal was agreed to. it's very deceptive and should be looked into by some regulatory authority.


How many decades of annual price increases must we have before it surprises you? You never had your price locked. You can choose to walk away when you wish. That option is part of what you agreed to. The provider is expected to hold up their end of the agreement, as are you. Their fees for providing you content go up each and every year and only so much of that will be absorbed.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

RasputinAXP said:


> If people fail at reading comprehension, it's not Dish's fault. it says right on the website, 'promotional price for 12 months with a 24 month agreement, monthly DVR and receiver fees apply'.
> 
> It's not deceptive when you can't read.


like i said before, i have no problem with the agreed to 1-12 month, 13-24 month, receiver, and dvr fees. now where in your reading comprehension of what you posted does it say "we are going to raise your fees and you have no choice about it" during the time you can't get out of the contract? they don't because it would be hard to get new customers.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> How many decades of annual price increases must we have before it surprises you? You never had your price locked. You can choose to walk away when you wish. That option is part of what you agreed to. The provider is expected to hold up their end of the agreement, as are you. Their fees for providing you content go up each and every year and only so much of that will be absorbed.


i have no problem with a price increase AFTER the contract runs out or if someone is on a month to month.

you can't walk away without a charge when you have a 24 month agreement.

i am willing to live up to the 24 month agreement, dish isn't!


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

why doesn't dish advertise "$15 off your first 12 months with a 24 month agreement of whatever price we decide to charge you"?? that's what they are actually doing. that wouldn't sell, so we will deceive customers.

no, the biggest part of their advertisement is their supposed price. like i said, deceptive!!! 

to be fair, dish isn't the only provider that is deceptive about prices.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171278 said:


> i am willing to live up to the 24 month agreement, dish isn't!


Of course they are. Please explain how they are not,


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

husker61 said:


> let's see. you get a discount for the first 12 months, then pay full price for the next 12.


Exactly ... that is precisely what you agreed to when you signed up for DISH and precisely what DISH is delivering.

They are giving you a DISCOUNT for 12 months ... not a set price that will not change but a discount for 12 months. And after the 12 months you will pay regular price ... whatever regular price is for that month of service.

Perhaps you want the words to mean different things ... but a discount for 12 months and full price after that is what DISH offers.

BTW: Based on the information in the original price increase thread ... If you have not completed your first 12 months DISH will give you credits equal to the price increase until the 12th month. This in effect gives you the price you agreed to ... not just the discount you accepted.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> Of course they are. Please explain how they are not,


i got a notification in the mail today that the price i pay is going up $5 and $1 starting in feb. that's not the price when i started the 24 month agreement.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171328 said:


> i got a notification in the mail today that the price i pay is going up $5 and $1 starting in feb. that's not the price when i started the 24 month agreement.


They never said the rate wouldn't change. That isn't part of the agreement. It's a commitment, not a price lock.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

James Long said:


> Exactly ... that is precisely what you agreed to when you signed up for DISH and precisely what DISH is delivering.
> 
> They are giving you a DISCOUNT for 12 months ... not a set price that will not change but a discount for 12 months. And after the 12 months you will pay regular price ... whatever regular price is for that month of service.
> 
> ...


dish shouldn't advertise a price if they don't intend to honor it, and that is the biggest print in their advertisements.

if they honor the original pricing for the term of my contract (not just half of it) then i have absolutely no problem and i hope you are correct. they can keep the price, but give an additional $6/month promotional discount for the remainder of the contract. this may be easier to do for their accounting purposes, and keep the final cost the same for the customer, keeping them happy.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

husker61 said:


> dish shouldn't advertise a price if they don't intend to honor it, and that is the biggest print in their advertisements.


I tend to agree ... and that is why I was happy to see the credits for customers who were within their first 12 months of programming. Those customers saw advertisements of $24.99 for 12 months (or whatever the price was) and expect to pay $24.99 for the 12 months.

But where your demands fail is beyond 12 months. There is no promise that the price will be $49.99 (or whatever the current regular price was at time of purchase) after the 12 months. None at all.

If you have misunderstood the offer then take this as a moment of education. DBS and cable is not a cellphone plan. Prices go up practically every year regardless of provider. Fortunately the DBS providers have kept it down to one (or less) increase per year ... but with improvements in the programming they carry and price increases from the sources there is no way a DBS/cable provider can give you locked in prices forever.


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

I never received anything from them. Just showed up on the bill. I feel the value of this is no longer their. They have constantly just kept finding ways to up up the price. I used to pay $43 a month 15 years ago for dish, now it's $135. Only addition has been a dvr and hbo. My pay hasn't risen by this amount. Maybe it's time for an antenna.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

rocat1997;3171467 said:


> I never received anything from them. Just showed up on the bill. I feel the value of this is no longer their. They have constantly just kept finding ways to up up the price. I used to pay $43 a month 15 years ago for dish, now it's $135. Only addition has been a dvr and hbo. My pay hasn't risen by this amount. Maybe it's time for an antenna.


The price for content keeps going up. They aren't inventing excuses to raise rates.


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

They are and slowly pricing people out. Theirs a point where it becomes cheaper to just use an antenna like when I was a kid.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Four channels that go off the air after midnight?


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

rocat1997 said:


> I never received anything from them. Just showed up on the bill. I feel the value of this is no longer their. They have constantly just kept finding ways to up up the price. I used to pay $43 a month 15 years ago for dish, now it's $135. Only addition has been a dvr and hbo. My pay hasn't risen by this amount. Maybe it's time for an antenna.


Yeah and 15 years ago you probably only had 2 HBO channels in that package


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

True but that's about what I watch now. Lol..


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That makes the "scale back" decision easier ... although it seems there is always some good show on a premium channel or upper tier channel. After a while buying the DVDs or streaming subscriptions to those programs adds up.

Is TV service worth $1700 per year? If it isn't, scale back to what you think it is worth - pay that much and see what you get.


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

And I do watch 1 show on hbo. I could probably do without it. I watch mostly encore and DIY. Some hallmark.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

James Long said:


> I tend to agree ... and that is why I was happy to see the credits for customers who were within their first 12 months of programming. Those customers saw advertisements of $24.99 for 12 months (or whatever the price was) and expect to pay $24.99 for the 12 months.
> 
> But where your demands fail is beyond 12 months. There is no promise that the price will be $49.99 (or whatever the current regular price was at time of purchase) after the 12 months. None at all.
> 
> If you have misunderstood the offer then take this as a moment of education. DBS and cable is not a cellphone plan. Prices go up practically every year regardless of provider. Fortunately the DBS providers have kept it down to one (or less) increase per year ... but with improvements in the programming they carry and price increases from the sources there is no way a DBS/cable provider can give you locked in prices forever.


i understand that programing costs are going up. that's due in part to consumers and providers making it easy to not watch commercials that were the main revenue stream for years. they absolutely have the right to raise prices as they see fit, just not in the middle of a agreed to deal.

i believe all these companies have a online system that you can select what plan, equipment, etc. that you want and it tells you what the charges will be for the entire plan (taxes and govt fees are also included), not just the first 12 months. that is what i used when i shopped for a provider. i just would like the company to honor that.

i never said dish should honor a price forever!

would anyone stand for a car co leasing you a vehicle and then saying they were charging you more into the agreement? what about a landlord raising your rent partially into your lease? i'm sure dish wouldn't stand for espn demanding more money from them in the middle of their deal. these are all unacceptable, why should dish and their customers be any different?


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

husker61;3171786 said:


> i understand that programing costs are going up. that's due in part to consumers and providers making it easy to not watch commercials that were the main revenue stream for years. they absolutely have the right to raise prices as they see fit, just not in the middle of a agreed to deal.
> 
> i believe all these companies have a online system that you can select what plan, equipment, etc. that you want and it tells you what the charges will be for the entire plan (taxes and govt fees are also included), not just the first 12 months. that is what i used when i shopped for a provider. i just would like the company to honor that.
> 
> ...


You were never locked into a price. Dish is following the exact agreement you...agrees to. They are honoring it.


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

James Long said:


> I tend to agree ... and that is why I was happy to see the credits for customers who were within their first 12 months of programming. Those customers saw advertisements of $24.99 for 12 months (or whatever the price was) and expect to pay $24.99 for the 12 months.


i hope this it true, but there was nothing like this mentioned in the letter i received.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

husker61 said:


> i hope this it true, but there was nothing like this mentioned in the letter i received.


Are you in your first 12 months?


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

lol.

I remember the very first contract I signed [with direct,] and they had a price increase after month 12, I thought the same way husker61 does now, [it wasn't what I signed up for].

Of course I was naive, and I sat down and read ALL the fine print.

It was there. They reserve the right to change at any time.

Always read the fine print:lol:


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

James Long said:


> Are you in your first 12 months?


yes


----------



## husker61 (Jun 30, 2012)

satcrazy said:


> lol.
> 
> I remember the very first contract I signed [with direct,] and they had a price increase after month 12, I thought the same way husker61 does now, [it wasn't what I signed up for].
> 
> ...


didn't banks get sued and loose because they changed mortgage rates on people? they were allowed to in those contracts (adjustable rates) and it didn't make any difference, they lost and payed big time. it was because they were deceptive about it, sound familiar? these co's should be very careful.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

husker61 said:


> James Long said:
> 
> 
> > Are you in your first 12 months?
> ...


Have you seen a "post increase" bill?



husker61 said:


> didn't banks get sued and loose because they changed mortgage rates on people? they were allowed to in those contracts (adjustable rates) and it didn't make any difference, they lost and payed big time. it was because they were deceptive about it, sound familiar? these co's should be very careful.


Perhaps ... and if you don't see a credit to offset the increase for the remainder of your first 12 months you may have a point. The big print "$24.99 per month for 12 months" should be honored. But when you reach the 13th month "regular price" sets in ... and you, like everyone else past their first 12 months, should expect to pay the current regular price.

I believe the suit that you suggest has already been filed and made it through the courts. It is the reason why I expect you will see the credit for the remainder of your first 12 months. And the reason why in month 13 DISH will be confident in charging you the full regular price.


----------



## catnapped (Dec 15, 2007)

Gotta love a mailing that has "A Special thank you from Dish" with a rate increase inside :lol:


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

husker61 said:


> didn't banks get sued and loose because they changed mortgage rates on people? they were allowed to in those contracts (adjustable rates) and it didn't make any difference, they lost and payed big time. it was because they were deceptive about it, sound familiar? these co's should be very careful.


Well, I know what your saying, but, when you agree to terms and conditions by signing the contract, it is binding. 
Of course you never see that contract until after the installation is done and the tech puts it under your nose to sign it so he can leave.

I have found that everytime I asked to see a contract [ like for extended warranties, as example] I get the run-around. Makes me crazy [ short trip] because these companies should be forth comming if they're legit.

I'm sure the legal team have gone over these, so, doesn't matter what we think.


----------



## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

I believe the agreements are available on the website. You could always download it and read it first.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

BINGO.

Dish homepage- legal-resedential agreement- "changes in services offered"

Pretty straightforward.

Thanks.


I have not found this to be the case for every business I have dealt with, however.


----------



## HinterXGames (Dec 20, 2012)

Yeah, DTV is the same. Their's is available at the website also. I'm not sure how people think if a providers price increase's to supply the product, how the price of the product will not also adjust to match.
--
I mean, simply apply it to any buisness. If you have a buisness to sell apples and your apple supplier starts charging you an extra 2$ per bushel, you would try and tell me you you wouldn't raise the cost of buying apples that your customers pay?


----------



## KakaduDreamer (Feb 2, 2013)

Ugh! I got the "a special thank you" / oh-by-the-way here's a lovely price increase letter in the mail recently. It's annoying and yet I'm trying to recall the last time Dish implemented price increases on the programming. Seems like my monthly bill has stayed the same for at least several years. If its not an annual price increase situation I guess I'll just swallow the pill and accept it.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

KakaduDreamer;3173776 said:


> Ugh! I got the "a special thank you" / oh-by-the-way here's a lovely price increase letter in the mail recently. It's annoying and yet I'm trying to recall the last time Dish implemented price increases on the programming. Seems like my monthly bill has stayed the same for at least several years. If its not an annual price increase situation I guess I'll just swallow the pill and accept it.


It's an annual event.


----------



## KakaduDreamer (Feb 2, 2013)

Hoosier205 said:


> It's an annual event.


I'm sure you're right but still...I think I'll to go back and take a quick look at my Dish bill amounts over the past few years, only because I don't recall getting annoyed around this time last year about a price increase. This seemed like the first bump in quite a long awhile.


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> It's an annual event.


maybe with directv it is
dish has not had an increase in 2 years


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Dish had a price freeze for the last few years, that ended this year.


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

KakaduDreamer said:


> I'm sure you're right but still...I think I'll to go back and take a quick look at my Dish bill amounts over the past few years, only because I don't recall getting annoyed around this time last year about a price increase. This seemed like the first bump in quite a long awhile.


unlike other providers dish didn't increase their programming fees in the last 2 years.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Believe that if you wish.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Believe that if you wish.


The price freeze on programming is a fact. My cost has actually gone down because fees are lower with my Hopper/Joey setup than with my 722/622/211. At least be factual with your incessant Dish bashing.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

patmurphey;3173824 said:


> The price freeze on programming is a fact. My cost has actually gone down because fees are lower with my Hopper/Joey setup than with my 722/622/211. At least be factual with your incessant Dish bashing.


...as I said...believe what you wish. A lock in one place is made up for elsewhere.


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> ...as I said...believe what you wish. A lock in one place is made up for elsewhere.


you just can't accept the fact that dish didn't raise their programming fees for 2 years ,while directv did ,so you have to come here and defend your all mighty directv.dude go get a job instead of sitting in front of a computer all day defending directv.be productive


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yeah, it isn't possible that a guy looking at his Dish bill could possibly be correct while someone who doesn't even subscribe to Dish would know it all, right?


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

not only dish not raised their programming fees ,but they gave us subscribers so many freebies like pay per view coupons, cinemax for 1 penny for 1 year, etc etc.


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Believe that if you wish.


Press release by Dish, check date:

DISH NETWORK TO INCREASE RATES APPROXIMATELY 3 PERCENT ANNUALIZED AND IMPLEMENT TWO-YEAR PRICE FREEZE

Offers Premium Movie Channels Free For One Year in Celebration of 30th Anniversary as Pioneer in Satellite TV

ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Jan. 3, 2011 - DISH Network L.L.C. today announced that it is raising prices $3 to $5 per month on most programming packages starting in February 2011. DISH Network is then freezing prices on its primary programming packages through January 2013, becoming the only major satellite or cable company in America to announce a two-year price freeze.

As a result, the typical DISH Network customer will receive approximately a 3 percent annualized rate increase during that period. DISH Network is not raising prices on equipment fees or premium programming.

Also, in honor of the company's 30th anniversary as a pioneer in satellite TV, DISH Network is offering premium movie channels free for one year to most customers. DISH Network also offers Free HD for Life, which provides access to high definition feeds of popular channels at no additional cost.

"DISH Network continues to work harder than any other company in the industry to offer the best prices, and the most choices," said Ira Bahr, Chief Marketing Officer for DISH Network. "We pride ourselves on not raising rates each year, unlike cable companies. And despite rising programming costs, we are pleased to continue to offer the lowest everyday prices in America."

For more information, visit 
www.dishnetwork.com


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

garys;3173922 said:


> Press release by Dish, check date:
> 
> DISH NETWORK TO INCREASE RATES APPROXIMATELY 3 PERCENT ANNUALIZED AND IMPLEMENT TWO-YEAR PRICE FREEZE
> 
> ...


You have completely missed the point.


----------



## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

domingos35 said:


> you just can't accept the fact that dish didn't raise their programming fees for 2 years ,while directv did ,so you have to come here and defend your all mighty directv.dude go get a job instead of sitting in front of a computer all day defending directv.be productive


Dish raised rates $5 in 2011
Dish didnt raise rates in 2012
Dish raised rates $5 in 2013

looking at my spreadsheet of my Directv bills each month (I've had D* for 3 years now)
Directv raised rates $2 in 2011
Directv raised rates $3 in 2012
Directv raised rates $3 in 2013

hmmmm looks like D* subs came out on the better end of that "Dish price freeze"....just saying


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

jeffgbailey said:


> Dish raised rates $5 in 2011
> Dish didnt raise rates in 2012
> Dish raised rates $5 in 2013
> 
> ...


of course directv subs always come out better.
at least in directv's fanboys eyes it does.
but the facts(my bills) say otherwise


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> You have completely missed the point.


If you could then please explain it again so I can?


----------



## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

domingos35 said:


> of course directv subs always come out better.
> at least in directv's fanboys eyes it does.
> but the facts(my bills) say otherwise


I'm just going off *FACTS* on the price increases for both companies....no way to spin it. 
Now if you have credits to lower your bill thats great. But DIsh's price increase was more over the 3 years than Directv was

And by the way....I had both companies for about a year


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

jeffgbailey said:


> I'm just going off *FACTS* on the price increases for both companies....no way to spin it.
> Now if you have credits to lower your bill thats great. But DIsh's price increase was more over the 3 years than Directv was
> 
> And by the way....I had both companies for about a year


and no i don't have any credits


----------



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

garys said:


> If you could then please explain it again so I can?


he can't


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> patmurphey said:
> 
> 
> > The price freeze on programming is a fact. My cost has actually gone down because fees are lower with my Hopper/Joey setup than with my 722/622/211. At least be factual with your incessant Dish bashing.
> ...


Huh? Pat's costs have gone DOWN ... a decrease. How is that a case of DISH making up for the price increase elsewhere? The fees on the other equipment did not go up in 2012. It worked out that the fees for a Hopper/Joey setup were less than for the other setup.

In 2012 two fees were increased. The receiver return fee, which only affects customers cancelling service and reflects an increase in shipping prices to safely return their leased equipment to DISH (without incurring the receiver non-return fee which is basically buying the leased receiver). And the late fee, which only affects customers who do not pay their bill on time. If one is paying the late fee every month they have bigger issues.

Also in 2012 the price of having multiple premium movie channel packages went up $2. This did not affect subscribers to AEP, which includes all four premium movie packages. The multiple premium movie channel package price did not increase in 2011 ... so that was $2 over two years. And DISH did not increase the price for having two or three movie packages in 2013.

If you want to claim that the package price freeze was made up for by a small increase on customers who subscribe to more than one movie package but not AEP or pay their bills late or choose to no longer be a customer there is only one response I can give:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You might as well say that the package price freeze was made up for by a small increase on customers living in gray houses who were born on a Tuesday.


----------



## etirvan (May 23, 2010)

jeffgbailey said:


> Dish raised rates $5 in 2011
> Dish didnt raise rates in 2012
> Dish raised rates $5 in 2013
> 
> ...


You're forgetting one thing. The $5 increase in programming rates for Dishnetwork in 2011 affected ONLY one package. The other packages only went up by $3 than. Also, certain packages for DirectTV didn't have the same across the board price increase, either. When it comes down to it, subs of both companies actually came out about equal, lol.


----------



## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

etirvan said:


> The $5 increase in programming rates for Dishnetwork in 2011 affected ONLY one package. The other packages only went up by $3 than.


wanna try again....per James Long's website it shows ALL packages went up $5 in 2011
http://jameslong.name/pricing.html

these had no change in 2010...prices are form 09 to 2011
AT120 39.99 to 44.99
AT120+ 44.99 to 49.99

these went up June 2010 by $2 then $5 in 2011...
AT200 54.99 to 59.99
AT250 59.99 to 64.99
AEP 99.99 to 104.99


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jeffgbailey said:


> these went up June 2010 by $2 then $5 in 2011...
> 
> AEP 99.99 to 104.99


As noted in the chart AEP went DOWN in price in 2010 before going back up in 2011. 
(That particular decrease was "made up for" in fees. AEP no longer included DVR service.)

Perhaps someone with DirecTV could make a similar chart? Somehow DirecTV rates seem to end up to be roughly the same or a couple dollars higher than DISH each year after the rate increases (AEP+Blockbuster $129.99, Premier+HD Pack $129.98 - with lower packages having more of a price difference).


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

What's this about most subscribers getting a free year of premium movie channels? I've got a package that is over $100, including HBO, never missed or late on a payment in my entire history with Dish (auto-pay) and all I've seen related to this increase is a 50% off for 6 months to a premium channel I'm not already subbed to (this via the mail today.)


----------



## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

fudpucker;3174187 said:


> What's this about most subscribers getting a free year of premium movie channels? I've got a package that is over $100, including HBO, never missed or late on a payment in my entire history with Dish (auto-pay) and all I've seen related to this increase is a 50% off for 6 months to a premium channel I'm not already subbed to (this via the mail today.)


I received stars at no cost for a year, a few years back as an appreciation for ushers anniversary but I haven't heard anything like this happening again. I have a fifty percent off option online. Where did you hear they are giving out a movie channel free for a year?


----------



## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

Wasnt that free for Dish's (well parent company Echostar's) 30 years in business?


----------



## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

jeffgbailey;3174251 said:


> Wasnt that free for Dish's (well parent company Echostar's) 30 years in business?


I thought it was Dishes anniversary, but yes.


----------



## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

Dish started in 1996
Echostar started in 1980


----------



## ken100 (Feb 2, 2013)

If your in the first year of your dish or directv deal you are not seeing an increase until the start of your second year or your 13th month. If you signed up for a package that is $30 a month for 12 months that is an agreement that you will pay no more than $30 for 12 months for programming. A DVR fee is a different thing though, that fee can go up on you. It is in effect a price freeze. Starting with your 13th month you get $10 off a month through your 24th month that's $10 off whatever the regular price is at that time, so you are subject to a price increase after the first 12 months, however you are still getting discounted $10 for your 2nd year. I will gladly take my $1 Directv price increase over Dish's $5 even without an increase last year. Dish's top 200 is the same price as Choice now, it use to be $4 cheaper. DVR fee may be less as it looks like the Genie is going up, but the Client's are $6 and the Joeys are $7. So both services are pretty equal on price now. It's a matter of who has what you like. I like the guide and menu system on DTV better, Sunday Ticket now that it is 40% less, and DTV has a better retention department. Dish lost me over $60 they didn't want to give me in free programming if I were to stay and upgrade to the hopper and do a new 2 year committment with them. I wanted a $10 credit for 12 months and free HBO for a year and they were only willing to give me $10 for 6 months. Although when I called to cancel the lady I talked to said she would have given it to me, but I had already talked to 2 or 3 that said no and by then I was so done with them and had my install with Directv ready to go.


----------



## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

ken100;3174913 said:


> If your in the first year of your dish or directv deal you are not seeing an increase until the start of your second year or your 13th month. If you signed up for a package that is $30 a month for 12 months that is an agreement that you will pay no more than $30 for 12 months for programming.


Not correct. With the price increase, dish has decided to give customers within their first year credit to keep them at the price they signed up for, but the contract says nothing about the price being guaranteed. In fact it says the opposite, stating prices can be changed at any time, which is true about pretty much every residential service agreement I have ever seen from a television provider.


----------



## ken100 (Feb 2, 2013)

It may not say the work gaurantee, but it gives the impression you will be paying $30 for 12 months, so they are giving nothing. Simply honoring their word as is Directv with their price increase in regards to their first year new subs. There is not a State Attorney Generals office that wouldn't fight that one and win. And even if they didn't win (which they should) the bad press isn't anything either provider needs.


----------



## ken100 (Feb 2, 2013)

Don't act like Dish is doing anyone a favor.....where I'm from it's called doing the right thing.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

This is the first year that DISH has "honored" the big print prices ... and while I don't believe they deserve a parade for doing the right thing, I believe it should be acknowledged.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

What the offers literally say is that your discounts will be consistent for the periods. The underlying price can and does change unless your promotion specifically said otherwise.

Everyday Low Price $Package
Monthly Credit $10
Online Credit $Discount

It is not underhanded or uncommon.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

some guy said:


> I believe the agreements are available on the website. You could always download it and read it first.


They were not always, [ Not when I had them] I knew there was a large lawsuit a few years back regarding this

http://hometheater.about.com/b/2010...ows-further-action-on-behalf-of-customers.htm


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

Well my bill had a $7 increase. Increases on america's top 250, hbo and showtime increased and a dvr fee increase. While i realize increases are a way of life, i will be forced to lower my programming. I havent had a pay increase in years and dont see one in the near future. Like i said before on this forum, tv has increased priced tremendously and the content is no better. Actually worse because we are inundated with tons of commercials.


----------



## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

Well crud. I have AT120+ and was getting 2 half price for 6 month promos. Those expired today. Not interested in them at full price, but they were fine at half - so I guess I'll continue my present programming without the premiums to help offset the pain of the price increase.

I do get some other half price price premium promo offers when I log into mydish.com. But I'm not interested in those. Maybe some day the one's I had will be offered to me again, until then, it's only TV


----------



## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

CeeWoo;3176226 said:


> Well crud. I have AT120+ and was getting 2 half price for 6 month promos. Those expired today. Not interested in them at full price, but they were fine at half - so I guess I'll continue my present programming without the premiums to help offset the pain of the price increase.
> 
> I do get some other half price price premium promo offers when I log into mydish.com. But I'm not interested in those. Maybe some day the one's I had will be offered to me again, until then, it's only TV


Can't hurt to call and ask if you can still get them half price


----------



## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

puckwithahalo said:


> Can't hurt to call and ask if you can still get them half price


I speak DIRT and got er done .


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

I'm gonna drop all my premiums. They have gotten too high priced, especially with the base price increase.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, I had just made some changes to trim a little cost from my package, and now its back to about $127. Ugh. AT250 at $75, HBO is now $18 per month, $10 each for two of my DVRs plus another $7 to use them, and I had the protection plan which also went up.

Time to make some decisions.


----------



## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

The $18 for hbo is kicking me. I record everything and looked back at my dvr. I had not recorded in 2 months. So, I feel it must go. Most of the new releases I've seen already at blockbuster.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

rocat1997 said:


> The $18 for hbo is kicking me. I record everything and looked back at my dvr. I had not recorded in 2 months. So, I feel it must go. Most of the new releases I've seen already at blockbuster.


Yeah, that $18 per month is a killer (same price on DirectTV.) Unfortunately there have been series on HBO that have been must-watch for us, and the HBOGo app is pretty amazing.

I'd drop from 250 down to a lower package but there are also a couple of channels on there that we watch regularly. But at this price we're going to have to do something.


----------



## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

fudpucker said:


> Yeah, that $18 per month is a killer (same price on DirectTV.) Unfortunately there have been series on HBO that have been must-watch for us, and the HBOGo app is pretty amazing.
> 
> I'd drop from 250 down to a lower package but there are also a couple of channels on there that we watch regularly. But at this price we're going to have to do something.


Yes, the premium channels now depend upon their exclusive series to keep subscribers. Most of the movies they show are released on disc months before they get them and have already been seen by movie fanantics.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

MCHuf said:


> Yes, the premium channels now depend upon their exclusive series to keep subscribers. Most of the movies they show are released on disc months before they get them and have already been seen by movie fanantics.


Kinda sucks as the only thing we watch are the series and docs.

Just got a "please come back" from DirectTV with a guaranteed discount for two full years and free whole house DVR, etc. Kinda tempting (I was happy when I was with them in the past.)


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Hmmm. The DirectTV full package is $91.99 per month. My AT250 + HBO is $92.99 per month. But their Premiere package at $91.99 also includes ALL premium channels - HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, and others (plus more HBO channels.) They also throw in all of the regional sports channels. And the CW local and another "minor" local that Dish does not include. Plus a two year deal of $86 per month. And free whole house DVR for up to 4 TVs.

Tempting.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> Hmmm. The DirectTV full package is $91.99 per month. My AT250 + HBO is $92.99 per month. But their Premiere package at $91.99 also includes ALL premium channels - HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, and others (plus more HBO channels.) They also throw in all of the regional sports channels. And the CW local and another "minor" local that Dish does not include. Plus a two year deal of $86 per month. And free whole house DVR for up to 4 TVs.
> 
> Tempting.


Premier is $124.99 after the promotional period and the "deal" is one year per their website. Look at this forum for the "fun" everyone is having with the Genie system.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> Premier is $124.99 after the promotional period and the "deal" is one year per their website. Look at this forum for the "fun" everyone is having with the Genie system.


Yeah, I got an offer in the mail for the promo to be 2 years (one of those "We want you back, previous customer!" deals.)

And I will go take a look at the Genie issues.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Genie does not look ready for prime-time. (pun intended.)


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> Genie does not look ready for prime-time. (pun intended.)


How so?

I've had one for a few months and it's been great.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

fudpucker;3178241 said:


> Genie does not look ready for prime-time. (pun intended.)


People have been very happy with them actually.


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

I was just reading the threads over on the DirectTV forums and all of the people having problems, including problems that they say have been occurring through every software update.

Note I am not biased towards Dish or DirectTV - I had DirectTV from 1995 until about three years ago and was very happy with them, only switched (reluctantly) when we moved and DirectTV did not carry our locals in our new location (That is no longer true.)


----------



## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Is there anywhere that provides an unbiased side by side comparison of the Genie and Hopper?


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Not really.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

fudpucker;3178250 said:


> I was just reading the threads over on the DirectTV forums and all of the people having problems, including problems that they say have been occurring through every software update.
> 
> Note I am not biased towards Dish or DirectTV - I had DirectTV from 1995 until about three years ago and was very happy with them, only switched (reluctantly) when we moved and DirectTV did not carry our locals in our new location (That is no longer true.)


An incredibly small, and very skewed, sample.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> An incredibly small, and very skewed, sample.


No more or less so than other 'issues' samples. Well other than the ongoing 'slow' issues that are part and parcel of all HRs from D*. 

Both Genie/C31 and Hopper/Joey has minor issues that crop up, but overall both are good choices if the provider that uses them has the channels you want.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> No more or less so than other 'issues' samples. Well other than the ongoing 'slow' issues that are part and parcel of all HRs from D*.
> 
> Both Genie/C31 and Hopper/Joey has minor issues that crop up, but overall both are good choices if the provider that uses them has the channels you want.


Agreed. Not very many people go to forums to post how much they enjoy something.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> Agreed. Not very many people go to forums to post how much they enjoy something.


The few that do are often fairly vocal about how well the product works, despite being outnumbered by people complaining.

Plenty of information can be found on the DirecTV forums about Genie ... this is a DISH price change thread.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

OK, let's come back to that! 

With the recent changes at Dish and the upcoming ones from Direct, the prices are very close to each other. So close that to my mind, there is no way to get great discounts other than switching now and then.

Yeah, I know, you can call and get discounts along the way and both services are pretty good about giving them out, but they cannot be depended on as they don't apply to everyone usually and they could both quit doing it at any time.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

All of this year's price increases (at least those that have been announced) should be in effect. DirecTV's took effect February 7th, DISH's took effect January 17th (for bills printed after that date).

With both Choice and AT 200 at the same price* (for the first time since 2006 - both have gone up $20 over those seven years) the "new customer" flip flop to get new equipment at a deeper discount and the new customer pricing is tempting. Learning new channel numbers and equipment and losing saved recordings is a negative.

Flip-flopping is a choice ... 6.5 million subscribers left DirecTV and DISH over the year ending September 30th, 2012 and over 6.7 million subscribers were added ... so if one chooses to keep flipping services one would not be alone.

* Single RSN Markets


----------



## winman97 (Jan 30, 2013)

jeffgbailey said:


> wanna try again....per James Long's website it shows ALL packages went up $5 in 2011
> http://jameslong.name/pricing.html
> 
> these had no change in 2010...prices are form 09 to 2011
> ...


Per this chart, my AT250 service has increased by 50% since 2004. I have no other household expense that's jump that much since then except maybe for the health insurance and gasoline costs. I don't know how long I can afford this service at this level. Same holds true for a comprable package from DTV or cable. I am approaching retirement and this, among other things, will be reviewed and cut back. And I understand from our government that there is almost no inflation.!!!  Maybe my Obama Care insurance savings will kick in by then and I won't have to worry about cutting back.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

winman97 said:


> Per this chart, my AT250 service has increased by 50% since 2004. I have no other household expense that's jump that much since then except maybe for the health insurance and gasoline costs. I don't know how long I can afford this service at this level. Same holds true for a comprable package from DTV or cable. I am approaching retirement and this, among other things, will be reviewed and cut back. And I understand from our government that there is almost no inflation.!!!  Maybe my Obama Care insurance savings will kick in by then and I won't have to worry about cutting back.


In my household there are three people not related. All of us split bills including Dish.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

winman97 said:


> Per this chart, my AT250 service has increased by 50% since 2004. I have no other household expense that's jump that much since then except maybe for the health insurance and gasoline costs. I don't know how long I can afford this service at this level. Same holds true for a comprable package from DTV or cable. I am approaching retirement and this, among other things, will be reviewed and cut back. And I understand from our government that there is almost no inflation.!!!  Maybe my Obama Care insurance savings will kick in by then and I won't have to worry about cutting back.


1. Then you aren't paying attention, there are a variety of everyday things that have increased as much or more. Milk and Bread come to mind, in 2004 bread was around 90 cents. It now is at or close to $2.00. Bus travel and plane travel have gone up substantially in many cases. What was often $99 each way for me on Southwest to the same destination (BDL to TPA) is now more often $150+ each way very often more. I could go on.

2. You overlook Top250 did not even exist in 2004, it was Top180. Over the years it has gained many more channels, and of course in HD.

3. You also overlook while TV offers more channels and in the case of Dish and Direct at least, advanced equipment and options, other items offer less. Meaning, what was 8 oz now could be 6 oz AND price increases.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

winman97 said:


> Per this chart, my AT250 service has increased by 50% since 2004. I have no other household expense that's jump that much since then except maybe for the health insurance and gasoline costs. I don't know how long I can afford this service at this level. Same holds true for a comprable package from DTV or cable. I am approaching retirement and this, among other things, will be reviewed and cut back. And I understand from our government that there is almost no inflation.!!!  Maybe my Obama Care insurance savings will kick in by then and I won't have to worry about cutting back.


I retired in 2002.

Since that year based on rate increases alone, my electric bill is running between 95%-100% higher, my water-sewer base rates 174% higher, propane 91% higher, my basic no frills land line phone 88% higher, garbage collection 40% higher, my internet service 25% higher, and my Dish bill is $96.92, up 17% from $82.95.

I will admit it's like comparing apples to an empty bucket.

I've gotten nothing new and improved from the power company (at times the voltage is down to 112v instead of 120v), from the water/sewer district, from the propane company, from the phone company, and from the garbage company - "the empty bucket." Unfortunately, these tend to be "fixed costs" - meaning they put me "in a fix" not that they won't skyrocket.

From Dish I've gotten high definition, more channels than I got in 2002, and better hardware - "the apples." My internet is significantly faster - "the apples."

I'm happy with "the apples" but the rest not so much.

Yeah, the government says the CPI has gone up somewhere between 25%-30%. But no one bothered to tell my utilities, except Dish and Comcast, the ones people criticize the most.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Because the CPI is used to figure lots of things, like SS increases and such, they have it well twiddled to not show real inflation. It is always very, very low compared to reality.

Do you like peanuts in the shell? I do. But now for the same money, the bag is 1/2 the size it was last year.


----------



## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

Have to disagree with you on CPI, although I certainly hear that comment a lot. CPI is a very broad measurement of inflation. Every individual has his own inflation rate and it can differ widely for the published number. If you like peanuts and there is a bad crop one year, you're going to think the inflation rate is 50%. If you like beef and ranchers send a lot to slaughter because a drought makes it difficult to feed them, you might think the inflation rate is -10%. If you live in a fast growing city with a housing shortage, you think inflation is through the roof. If you live in small town that lost a big employer, your housing inflation factor is negative.

I finally got a social security COLA this year. I heard people complaining the CPI number was too low. I never heard anyone complain the year we got over 5% that the CPI was too high.

Even age has an effect. If you are young and have good health insurance through an employer you have no idea why someone 60 years old who buys his own health insurance is complaining about the double digit rise in health care cost.

So figure your personal inflation rate and understand it might be very different from the CPI for the nation as a whole.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

You are certainly welcome to disagree with me as I don't claim to be an expert.

But if you look at the CPI and corresponding COLA increases over the last few years, and then look at everything except housing, and you'll see that everything increased well beyond the 'official' figures.

CPI is weighted fairly heavily with housing costs from what I can determine, but yet the housing price increases and decreases that get all the press are really only in the city/suburb markets and even there weighted around the east/west coast. Much of the rest of the country doesn't see those big swings. And just how many homes do you buy each year?

When I look at prices and inflation, I look at those things that people buy all the time. Food, energy of all forms and others. To give much weight to those things you only buy 2-3 times in your lifetime on average is just a way to twiddle numbers.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

lparsons21;3178659 said:


> You are certainly welcome to disagree with me as I don't claim to be an expert.
> 
> But if you look at the CPI and corresponding COLA increases over the last few years, and then look at everything except housing, and you'll see that everything increased well beyond the 'official' figures.
> 
> ...


http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Hoosier.

Even worse than I thought. All urban, no suburban or rural included in their calculations. Definitely skews housing costs a bit.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

lparsons21;3178669 said:


> Thanks Hoosier.
> 
> Even worse than I thought. All urban, no suburban or rural included in their calculations. Definitely skews housing costs a bit.


Not if you understand how it works.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Actually, you can get for most parts of the country data for all communities under 50,000 population broken down, including a report for "all items less shelter." Using the java engine at http://www.bls.gov/cpi/ you see options:








In the upper screen on the left you see Size Class D (under 50,000) which would be for the nation. Let's suppose you want to look at the midwest. In the lower screen on the left you see Midwest - Size Class D. And suppose you want to factor out the cost of rents, mortgage payments, etc. So on the right you scroll down to All items less shelter. The results you get indicate that without shelter, the CPI went up 32% since the end of 2001. If you choose to check shelter, you find that it is 25% higher than 2001 as it stalled out beginning in 2008. On the other hand, gasoline prices are 2.5 times what they were ten years ago.

Is it perfect data? No. But it isn't as bad as you think it is. It's just that statistical data is based on averages and they assume things like how much gasoline the average household buys. Nobody lives an average life.

Now me, I grumble about the fact that they don't have a Size Class D for the West.:sure:


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

And you can get this:








I thought proudly that my costs didn't go up like that until I remembered I added SiriusXM when we bought a new car two years ago.


----------



## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

BillJ said:


> CPI is a very broad measurement of inflation.


CPI is a very broad, cooked-books measurement of inflation. It is in the government's own interests to make the CPI appear low.

Inflation is an increase of the money supply, and with the Fed ceasing to release M3 numbers (the most accurate measure of just how much money the Fed is pumping into the economy) it is hard to know exactly what that is. What people commonly call "inflation" is the general rise of prices, but prices do not immediately rise generally because inflation does not happen generally. When new money is pumped into the economy, it goes to specific industries which then see the increased demand as a signal to increase prices. That money, then re-spent, goes to other parts of the economy where eventually, given enough time, it all evens out. However, since the Fed never stops pumping new money in, it never evens out and the market is riddled with false signals.

Rising prices are the effect, not the cause. And trying to measure the effect is in many ways backwards.

That said, I think if we took a reasonable look at prices for satellite television since 1995, and worked out a cost/channel, the prices are still quite favorable without needing to take inflation into account. Add to that the abundance of HD channels, and we're truly getting more for our devalued dollar.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

sregener;3179069 said:


> CPI is a very broad, cooked-books measurement of inflation.


Not unless you favor conspiracy theories.


----------



## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

We can use all of the figures we want to prove or disprove how tv rates have been going up compared to general infaltion rates. But the fact remains that pay-tv isn't a necessary expense such as electricity or food. If people perceive that rates are going up too much, eventually they will cut back or even drop it to be able to better afford the essentials. Content providers better start keeping their costs and greed under control or they will be in for a rude awakening.

While someone said that the AT250 used to be AT180, what are you getting that is worth it? Do we really need NatGeo/NatGeo Wild, History/H2, Rural/RFD, etc? Does a market really need to have 3 or 4 rsn's? I see a lot of multiple channels showing content that could be shown on one channel.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I was waiting for someone to use that argument. Whatever channels you watch regularly, do we really need them? Lets get rid of those first if we are judging what I can watch. So, YES, I watch those channels. They are pennies and don't add squat. Only channels like USA or TNT or AMC etc have a little more cost to them. (And are popular)
If you took out the sports and made that a separate package, hardly anyone would be complaining about cost of other packages. RSN's are a completly different discussion, because of the cost involved and as you point the prolific amount of them.


----------



## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

tampa8 said:


> I was waiting for someone to use that argument. Whatever channels you watch regularly, do we really need them? Lets get rid of those first if we are judging what I can watch. So, YES, I watch those channels. They are pennies and don't add squat. Only channels like USA or TNT or AMC etc have a little more cost to them. (And are popular)
> If you took out the sports and made that a separate package, hardly anyone would be complaining about cost of other packages. RSN's are a completly different discussion, because of the cost involved and as you point the prolific amount of them.


I doubt that the programming those channels provide would disappear if the channels did. They would be consolidated on the sibling channel. With dvr use, it barely matters what time a cable network show comes on anymore anyway.

And while those channels may each "only" add pennies, that still is money that could be saved by the consumer if content providers used their channels more efficiently.


----------



## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

MCHuf said:


> If people perceive that rates are going up too much, eventually they will cut back or even drop it to be able to better afford the essentials. Content providers better start keeping their costs and greed under control or they will be in for a rude awakening.


There is theory and there is reality. We were told for decades that we needed to conserve electricity, that all our energy-saving purchases would save us money. And then, when everybody started cutting back, the electricity rates were raised to keep revenues up for the utilities, because lo-and-behold, their business model requires ever-more money, even if demand is falling. I fear that cutting back on pay TV programming will lead to another spiral: we'll cut back, they'll raise the prices so their revenues stay consistent. Eventually, the bubble will pop, but what the entertainment world will look like then is anybody's guess.


----------



## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

sregener said:


> There is theory and there is reality. We were told for decades that we needed to conserve electricity, that all our energy-saving purchases would save us money. And then, when everybody started cutting back, the electricity rates were raised to keep revenues up for the utilities, because lo-and-behold, their business model requires ever-more money, even if demand is falling. I fear that cutting back on pay TV programming will lead to another spiral: we'll cut back, they'll raise the prices so their revenues stay consistent. Eventually, the bubble will pop, but what the entertainment world will look like then is anybody's guess.


There is a difference between utlities and and the pay-tv industry though. Utilities are highly regulated industries that are basically guaranteed profits by state commisions. Pay-tv providers aren't guaranteed anything. Didn't Charter file for bankruptcy a few years ago?


----------



## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

MCHuf said:


> There is a difference between utlities and and the pay-tv industry though. Utilities are highly regulated industries that are basically guaranteed profits by state commisions. Pay-tv providers aren't guaranteed anything. Didn't Charter file for bankruptcy a few years ago?


You will never find a perfect analogy. They all break down somewhere. Unless or until I see a general willingness from the public to cut the cord, the analogy is still useful. Charter/Comcast/et al will not allow their profits to drop if they can help it, and when customers cut back on their packages, it merely gives them more incentive to raise prices generally.


----------

