# "Cannot detect SWM" with installed cables



## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

I'm getting "cannot detect SWM" message when connected through installed cables. Here's what IS working for me:


Dish is installed at the east side of the house. 
Coax runs from the dish, through the garage, into the house and connected to MSPLIT4R1-03. 
SWiM unit is plugged in nearby and connects to MSPLIT4R1-03 power pass. 
Coax connected to OUT on MSPLIT4R1-03 runs to HR24 receiver. 

That set up works just fine and it's the same arrangement as going through the installed cables. They're all quad shield with the same connectors. I run into problems when I used the installed cables, and this is a newly built house. I get a strong OTA signal using those same installed cables. Length can't be an issue because for the set up that is working I'm using a 100' feet section of coax connected to the coax coming from the dish via coupler. I even tried and arrangement that put the SWM unit close to the dish. For the life of me I just cannot ascertain what could be causing this issue. Is the SWM so finicky it needs a special connection? What am I missing?! I'm desperate for your input.

Thanks!


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

weiser701 said:


> *I get a strong OTA signal using*


Explain this a bit more

Apparently if you use cables from dish to splitter it works. If you use "installed" cables in the wall you get 771 error.
What's connect so that you get OTA.
? Diplexer
Apparently the cables aren't what you think and signals aren't getting from Outside to inside.

The cables and how they are connected is the issue.
Trace and diagram what you find or what you think they are

Doctor j


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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks for the reply! Sure, I can elaborate.

What I meant by strong OTA signal is connecting to an indoor/outdoor OTA antenna through the installed cables (in walls). By using the the cables we installed and are meant to be used we don't see any disruptions acquiring a healthy OTA signal. However, once I connect that same outdoor connection to the dish and subsequently the required set up inside with the SWM unit we're not able to acquire any satellite signal.

This is how the cables are ran:

Coax from bedroom, living room, garage and outside (dish) all meet in the closet next to the entry door from the garage. In that closet I have the SWM unit plugged in and connected to the MSPLIT4R1 splitter. Also connected to the splitter is the coax leading to the living room location where the HR24 receiver is being used. It's very basic and I don't see what could be going wrong. I've tried a couple of these splitters as well as the one my brother uses successfully in his house. Either way, the equipment works when I'm using different cables. But since I'm getting a signal from an OTA antenna I don't see how there would be issues with the installed cables. 

The only thing I can logically ascertain is a fault with the connectors. What do you think? Is it THAT important to have the RIGHT termination for the SWM to function?


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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

I installed all new compression connectors and I'm still getting the same "Cannot detect SWM" message. 

Like I said, I can change out this set up with the same length of coax, or longer, strung through the garage and hooking up the splitter and SWM unit the same and get a very strong signal with no SWM errors. I can't see a problem with the new cables installed in the walls. They're quad shield, new and work perfectly fine for the OTA signal from the antenna placed right next to the dish. This is so baffling!


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

weiser701 said:


> I installed all new compression connectors and I'm still getting the same "Cannot detect SWM" message.
> 
> Like I said, I can change out this set up with the same length of coax, or longer, strung through the garage and hooking up the splitter and SWM unit the same and get a very strong signal with no SWM errors. I can't see a problem with the new cables installed in the walls. They're quad shield, new and work perfectly fine for the OTA signal from the antenna placed right next to the dish. This is so baffling!


It sounds like you do not have the Power Inserter hooked up thru the power passing port of the splitter.
If the power does not travel from the inserter to the power passing port of the splitter it does not get to the LNB. This gives the 775 error.
Or the splitter does not have a power passing port since it was installed to hook up cable or similar.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

When you say "SWiM unit", are you referring to a Power Inserted? I don't, what is a "SWiM unit". 

You keep mentioning quad shield cables. That may mean something if you were getting your service from a cable company. But, it's entirely irrelevant to a DirecTV SWM system. What matters in a DirecTV system is is those cables have a Solid Copper Core (SCC) or if they're Copper Clad Steel (CCS). The requirement for Directv are Solid Copper Core Rg6. 

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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

That's a swm splitter, but I'm guessing the power inserter isn't conected to the power passing port, designated by the red line on the label, or red inside the port.


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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

Sorry for the confusion. I should have been saying power inserter all along. I think I was just having a brain fart with the terminology. 

I've been careful to make certain the inserter is always connected to the power pass of the splitter. I do understand the concept of the inserter in relation to the SWiM set up. In fact, that's why I even tried a connection that put it close to the dish in case there was an issue running along the length of coax going from the closet to the dish. It didn't change. I was somewhat familiar with the SWiM cabling at my brothers house. 

As for my mentioning of the quad shield cables. I only made note of just to make it clear all of the cables used in the various scenarios are the same. They're all RG6.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Have you checked voltage at the lnb? How about bypassing the splitter and just connecting the power inserter in line where the splitter is?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

LNB Connects to top Single port Swm spliter 
PI Connects to Port (RED) 1 
Ports 2 , 3, 4 Connect to receivers


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## eakes (Sep 22, 2007)

As suggested bypass the splitter and check voltage at the LNB (under load). The 'permanent' coax could be damaged such that it is resistive. This would result in lower voltage at the LNB which could be insufficient to power the LNB. That you get an OTA signal through the coax would not be unusual as the TV signal propagation on the coax is not the same as its ability to pass DC.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Uh how many receivers do you actually have?

Yes you must have any unused ports in the splitter terminated or you could have this issue. 

Over the air signal means nothing and you can’t use that as a gauge of the cables being good. But I doubt it’s the cables anyway. 

Is the green light in the power inserted?

Yank the splitter go from the dish to the pi to the HR24 and see if the HR24 works when it’s all that’s in the system. 

are you sure the coax going to the HR24 in the walls doesn’t split anywhere beyond the garage or anything? No diplexers or other things on the line either?


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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

I tested voltage and it's almost like there's a short. I'm not an electrician so I don't fully understand. I get ~28.7 volts (29v PI) with the troubleshoot cables but displays a very high voltage when I have the installed cable connected. It keeps climbing. I've done nothing different other than connect the cables accordingly. 

All other connections have always been done correctly. The green light is always lit. I've also bypassed the splitter and get the same results. There are no other splits in the walls. 

The electrician has to come out for a couple things as per the inspection so I'm going to put him to task. This bugs me because I've done these installations myself in new construction and never ran into these problems.


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## eakes (Sep 22, 2007)

If the voltage is randomly rising at the LNB that would imply to me that your in-wall coax is either open and collecting stray voltages or that it is somehow crossed with some AC wiring somewhere. In either event the in-wall coax has a problem. (hope you can gain access without having to tear into the wall!)


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

weiser701 said:


> I tested voltage and it's almost like there's a short. I'm not an electrician so I don't fully understand. I get ~28.7 volts (29v PI) with the troubleshoot cables but displays a very high voltage when I have the installed cable connected. It keeps climbing. I've done nothing different other than connect the cables accordingly.
> 
> All other connections have always been done correctly. The green light is always lit. I've also bypassed the splitter and get the same results. There are no other splits in the walls.
> 
> The electrician has to come out for a couple things as per the inspection so I'm going to put him to task. This bugs me because I've done these installations myself in new construction and never ran into these problems.


Have you tried Connecting the PI direct to the LNB - then use one receiver Connected to (PI) IRD port?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Wait, isn’t the pi by the splitter? I thought your issues came after that point, in which case I am confused where you are reading the power from? Because your u made it sound like it works fine if you connect a cable from the splitter to the HR24 that is just wound through the house instead of inside the walls. If that’s the case then the pi would never be putting out power over the wires installed in the walls except the one from the planter to the dish and you have already found that works fine when used with a different cable.

Maybe being more specific on your setup.. for example... dish to splitter is 50 Of coax in the wall. Splitter is located in basement. From the splitter it is x amount of feet to the pi located in room c. And so forth. Something just doesn’t make sense...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Wait, isn't the pi by the splitter? I thought your issues came after that point, in which case I am confused where you are reading the power from? Because your u made it sound like it works fine if you connect a cable from the splitter to the HR24 that is just wound through the house instead of inside the walls. If that's the case then the pi would never be putting out power over the wires installed in the walls except the one from the planter to the dish and you have already found that works fine when used with a different cable.
> 
> Maybe being more specific on your setup.. for example... dish to splitter is 50 Of coax in the wall. Splitter is located in basement. From the splitter it is x amount of feet to the pi located in room c. And so forth. Something just doesn't make sense...


From what I understand, the problem is with the pre-installed (quad-shield type) cable in the walls between the SWiM splitter in a wiring closet leading up to the LNB on the dish.

Every time he tries to use that cable, the receiver reports it cannot detect SWM. And when he runs another cable up to the LNB bypassing the pre-installed one, the receiver can get the satellite signals.

As a sort of test the OP says the cable does work fine for sending OTA signals from an outside antenna.

Also, strangely when the PI is connected to feed the pre-installed cable the measured voltage from the PI rises above the 29 volts for some reason.

Obviously something very weird and wrong is going on with the pre-installed cable, at least for satellite use.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If his OTA is coming in pretty strong, it may 'overpower' whatever issues there are with the cable.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

I still think that these cables are copper coated steel (CCS), rather than solid copper core (SCC).


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bill Broderick said:


> I still think that these cables are copper coated steel (CCS), rather than solid copper core (SCC).


But what's up with the strange rise in voltage above the 29 volts (nom.) when the OP tries to connect the PI to this pre-installed cable?

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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Quick test would be to connect the LNB to the PI- Then using a made rg6 jumper connect it to the (PI) IRD then to a Receiver -if it works LNB is okay - Inside wiring is suspect


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

WestDC said:


> Quick test would be to connect the LNB to the PI- Then using a made rg6 jumper connect it to the (PI) IRD then to a Receiver -if it works LNB is okay - Inside wiring is suspect


But that's what has already been determined, that the newly pre-installed inside wiring through the house walls is the problem for carrying SWM satellite signals anyhow.

When the OP bypasses the inside wiring with a 100' RG-6 cable to the dish everything works fine as he explained in the initial post. But he wants to get the inside house cabling to work for obvious reasons and can't figure out why it doesn't work for satellite signals when OTA signals seem to pass through it with no problem.

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## eakes (Sep 22, 2007)

The OP has stated that all works when a 'test' cable is used from dish to splitter to PI and then to a receiver. The problem occurs when trying to use the 'in-wall' cable instead of the test cable. Using the in-wall cable results in an error message that basically says "can't find the SWM".

When measuring voltage at the dish with the PI connected directly to the in-wall cable, the meter is reading a variable voltage which goes above the nominal 29V of the PI. I suspect he is using a DVM and holding the test leads to the shield and center conductor with his fingers. With no actual voltage reaching the dish from the PI the meter is reading spurious signals picked up by his body. An open coax can still act as an antenna for OTA signals so the 'TV test' really means nothing.

The coax was obviously damaged during construction. It is likely at least partially open. Finding the location of the problem will likely be difficult. Hopefully, it can be used as a pull cord to drag in a new coax.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

eakes said:


> The OP has stated that all works when a 'test' cable is used from dish to splitter to PI and then to a receiver. The problem occurs when trying to use the 'in-wall' cable instead of the test cable. Using the in-wall cable results in an error message that basically says "can't find the SWM".
> 
> When measuring voltage at the dish with the PI connected directly to the in-wall cable, the meter is reading a variable voltage which goes above the nominal 29V of the PI. I suspect he is using a DVM and holding the test leads to the shield and center conductor with his fingers. With no actual voltage reaching the dish from the PI the meter is reading spurious signals picked up by his body. An open coax can still act as an antenna for OTA signals so the 'TV test' really means nothing.
> 
> The coax was obviously damaged during construction. It is likely at least partially open. Finding the location of the problem will likely be difficult. Hopefully, it can be used as a pull cord to drag in a new coax.


My thinking aa well ....

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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I would then suggest - Checking the Coax Ends -for strands since the inside walls will be impossible to fix -without opening them or re-running exposed wires or Going with a Wireless bridge wherever possible


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

WestDC said:


> I would then suggest - Checking the Coax Ends -for strands since the inside walls will be impossible to fix -without opening them or re-running exposed wires or Going with a Wireless bridge wherever possible



Unfortunately , he's tried that also. See post #4
*"I installed all new compression connectors and I'm still getting the same "Cannot detect SWM" message."
*
I agree the OTA is a 'red herring'.
An inexpensive cable tester may confirm the bad cable but I don't think there is any other explanation.
A NEW cable run, however unpleasant, is in order.

Doctor j


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

The Op Options are to work with the builder on a Refund/Repair for the wiring applied to the Electric Co the re-fish all locations and patch any holes that need to be cut - Depending on the Contractor that installed the RG6 if the Elec contractor Did then the expense is on them - He should at least have a min of a 1 year Whole home warranty on NEW Construction.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I don’t know, it’s never been clear to me exactly what cables he has bypassed in the system. All of them, one of them, and if one of them or two of them which ones?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> I don't know, it's never been clear to me exactly what cables he has bypassed in the system. All of them, one of them, and if one of them or two of them which ones?


1) ODU with SWM LNB ----> *pre-installed in-wall house coax wiring* ----> 4-way SWM splitter in wiring closet ----> 29v PI ----> HR24

2) Same as above, but this time bypassing the in-wall house coax wiring with a 100' run of RG-6 cable as a test.

#1 is the installation the OP wants, but can't get to work, at least not for satellite signals. Receiver always gives a "cannot detect SWM" error message.

#2 the test install bypassing the house wiring works fine. That is, when placing a 100' coax between the SWM splitter and the ODU.

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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the robust discussion. I'm still working on this. The electrician is supposed to be out here next week.

One reason why I tossed out the idea that the cables aren't adequate is that they came off the same spool my brother and I used to wire his house. Directv with SWiM comes in just fine there, with various length runs including some fairly long. However, is there any way to compensate for CCS coax or is the only option to run new cables? Wouldn't the main impact be the run from the PI to the LNB?

*"I suspect he is using a DVM and holding the test leads to the shield and center conductor with his fingers. With no actual voltage reaching the dish from the PI the meter is reading spurious signals picked up by his body." *
I actually was being careful NOT to do this for this exact reason. Also, I'm using the same procedure and practices used to measure with the troubleshoot cables where I'm getting the proper voltage.


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## weiser701 (Jul 1, 2017)

I guess what baffles me most is that I've isolated the connections to where I tried these two scenarios without success:

Troubleshoot cable connected for [PI --> LNB] and in-wall cable for [PI --> HR24 receiver]
In-wall cable connected for [PI --> LNB] and troubleshoot cable for [PI --> HR24 receiver]

At this point it seems to be coincidence neither works since I would think at least the scenario using the <50' in-wall run from the PI to receiver should have it working. This is using the Directv supplied troubleshoot cable for PI --> LNB.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

weiser701 said:


> I guess what baffles me most is that I've isolated the connections to where I tried these two scenarios without success:
> 
> Troubleshoot cable connected for [PI --> LNB] and in-wall cable for [PI --> HR24 receiver]
> In-wall cable connected for PI --> LNB and troubleshoot cable for [PI --> HR24 receiver]
> ...


Oder one of these - and take the guess work out of it!

4 Way Coax Cable Mapper Tracker Toner Tracer Finder RG6 RG59 Tool Perfect Vision - - Amazon.com


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There's probably a nail through the coax...


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## eakes (Sep 22, 2007)

Another test you can run: at the dish connect the in-wall cable to the test cable (using a F-F adapter), then in the house check for continuity of both the center conductor and the shield. Also check for continuity between the center conductor and shield of the in-wall coax (should be open).

As to the DVM readings: with a voltage present the meter will read that voltage, however if there is no voltage to read the test leads can 'read' almost any and everything.

As an aside: years ago I was installing a length of RG-8 taken from a large spool of said cable. I found that there was no continuity of either the center conductor or the shield. Upon inspection of the cable to find the problem, I found a spot where the diameter did not 'feel' right. I opened the jacket and discovered two 'ends' of the cable that were not connected - somehow during construction of the cable two separate pieces of cable were 'joined' with the cable jacket - but nothing else!


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