# Fisher Communications Channels off DISH



## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

Word from a couple people at Dish is they have agreed to agree to something soon and will make an anouncement Monday and restore channels on Tuesday. Then when an agreement is reached Fischer will backcharge Dish for the amount of time channels were back on before the agreement was reached...Good resources at Dish...I hope it comes true.


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## Schizm (Jul 31, 2007)

"soon"


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

crrscott said:


> Word from a couple people at Dish is they have agreed to agree to something soon and will make an anouncement Monday and restore channels on Tuesday. Then when an agreement is reached Fischer will backcharge Dish for the amount of time channels were back on before the agreement was reached...Good resources at Dish...I hope it comes true.


This is a good rumor, I hope your source is right.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

While I can't find any public reports of this, Fisher has been making deals. As reported Friday in MultiChannel News: 


> Pacific Northwest broadcaster Fisher Communications reached its second retransmission-consent deal this week, this one involving Charter Communications, officials said Friday.
> 
> ...On Wednesday Fisher said it has reached an agreement in principle for a new retransmission-consent deal with Comcast.
> 
> However, the broadcaster hasn't reached a new contract yet with Dish Network, which dropped nine of its stations Dec. 18 after their old agreement expired.


If the rumor is true, it will make one member of my family happy.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

The programming guide nows says the channels ( ABC KOMO ) in my area is back Tues at 12pm. Could it be?


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## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

Portland KATU shows the same thing. Looks like we are back in business


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

"The programming guide nows says the channels ( ABC KOMO ) in my area is back Tues at 12pm. Could it be?"


Possibly from some rumor but not because of the guide. I have been watching timers on my ABC channel (Fisher - Portland) and notice after 24-36 hours on the guide it shows programming. After the nightly download the shows get replaced by the "Special Announcement" for another 24 hours.


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## Todd Nicholson (Jan 7, 2007)

Yep, I've noticed this behaviour as well. I wouldn't hold my breath, at least based upon what the guide says.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

calgary2800 said:


> The programming guide nows says the channels ( ABC KOMO ) in my area is back Tues at 12pm. Could it be?


Dish and Fisher have not taken down their "dispute" spin from their web sites and there seem to be no news stories yet. There could be an agreement in principle but with one or two Fisher channels still the subject of differences in the details. But it looks promising and for now I'll quit avoiding phone calls from my sister in Idaho to whom I recommended Dish.


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## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

I see that now the 12.00 programming for tuesday that was there yesterday is now gone. Very dissapointing. Local cable company lost Fox on the first and my phone won't stop ringing. Gonna be a long year in this business.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

This is the same way the guide was last week. I think this is a weekly thing and is not a predictor of anything. Also, why would a news organization not simply post it's return to Dish Network on it's website rather than delay something for some big formal announcement? When a deal is done, Fisher will post it immediately. It's important to their viewers and advertisers to know exactly when a channel will be available.

Last week, however, the VP of Dish told me that they were not even talking. Fisher apparently make a counter offer to Dish and Dish hadn't responded. My thought is this - Dish offered what it will pay - "the highest rates in the market" determined from competitor rates in the market and simply will not pay more. It's my feeling Fisher can offer anything it wants, but Dish has stated it's top amount and there is no point in responding if it is above that amount. Just my theory.

I doubt this resolves itself soon. I just wonder - is Directv still under contract? Did they pay for a higher rate and just pass it on to the customer?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WebTraveler said:


> When a deal is done, Fisher will post it immediately. It's important to their viewers and advertisers to know exactly when a channel will be available.


When a deal is done the channels will be back. If this is like every other "takedown" the actual channel feeds for the stations are still in place and ready for air. All DISH has to do is point the receivers back to the transponder where those locals exist instead of the transponder with the looping Charlie Chat replacement video. The EPG will be restored at the same time, but there will be a lag on receivers seeing the restored EPG (as usual). (Current and next program will be accurate, but beyond that will need a reload for anything that was covered up.)

There doesn't seem to be any logic in not restoring the channels the minute that the deal is done. The only delay is the length of time it takes to call the uplink center ... and based on the other returned channels that isn't a source of delay.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Darned! I'm sure I'll hear again from my sister soon enough.

Why did Fisher have to sue Charlie? He seems to take things like that personally. The counter offer from Dish is likely to be quite low after they made Charlie mad....:nono2:


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Darned! I'm sure I'll hear again from my sister soon enough.
> 
> Why did Fisher have to sue Charlie? He seems to take things like that personally. The counter offer from Dish is likely to be quite low after they made Charlie mad....:nono2:


This issue is going nowhere. Dish doesn't even respond any more. In the Charlie Chat they swore every email would be read. I've sent several over the past several days and have not even received the generic Charlie Ergen trash back.

I am afraid that I am going to need to pull the trigger on Dish to rid myself of this problem. The fact remains the conduct of Fisher is unethical in their quest to change the compensation for a broadcast station and be treated like a cable channel. But the truth is that Charlie Ergen is a child when it comes to disputes. His method of dealing with people is avoidance and to give the ultimate cold shoulder to people. Personally, Charlie needs to act like a gentleman and at least engage in negotiations for the sake of his customers.

His www.fairsatellite.com page is stale. He has no new items on it. The VP of Fisher told me that Dish has not responded since the channel was taken olff the air. Is this the company I want to buy services from? One that lies to my face and tells me it will negotiate, but then not?

Charlie Ergen is simply a jerk. It is a matter of time before I can Dish altogether unless Ergen actually engages himself. I am sick of this.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Bye .

I look at it this way - Dish has drawn their line in the sand , so to speak. If Fisher wants to negotiate, they know where Dish will negotiate to. 

But trying to get semi ESPN rates for OTA channels ain't going to fly. 

If you can't get them via Dish, try using an antenna. If antenna doesn't work for you, there's lifeline cable. If cable isn't available, you can get most ABC network shows over the internet, or you can wait until they come out on DVD.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

The only loss I have in this ordeal is I have to settle for ABC KOMO in SD. My old cable company stopped billing me in the summer when I pulled the plug but didnt actually cut the service. So all I have to do is pull ou the coxail cable and I have ABC again. 

I say the hell with both sides.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

You just knew that the channels wouldn't show up until the season continues.


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## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

I look at it this way. If Dish pays the outrageous increase then when CBS, FOX, and NBC's contracts come up then they will do the same. If the current offer is the most in the industry like Charlie says and Fisher still is not happy then shame on them. It is a pain in the butt and I am not happy. But if the customers who switch to DirecTV think this is not going to happen to them again thry are crazy.
Charlie may not be handling it the way I think he should, but his intentions seem to be good. The problem is that if he keeps it up, the long term dammage will be done. His customers who are no longer under contract, and some who are, will switch to DirecTV. Then when the stations come back he will probably have paid more than he wants anyway and have a smaller revenue stream coming in. Then when DirecTV's contracts come up those customers will be locked into another contract which is more expensive to get out of than the Dish one. And you can't come back to Dish as a returning customer and receive freebies till you have been gone for a year...I beleive. 
And I know that when my customers who have lost KATU get a rate increase on top of it come Feb 1, they are going to be miffed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WebTraveler said:


> This issue is going nowhere. Dish doesn't even respond any more. In the Charlie Chat they swore every email would be read. I've sent several over the past several days and have not even received the generic Charlie Ergen trash back.


They said they would READ your email ... they did not promise a reply. 



> The fact remains the conduct of Fisher is unethical in their quest to change the compensation for a broadcast station and be treated like a cable channel.
> 
> The VP of Fisher told me that Dish has not responded since the channel was taken olff the air.


You call Fisher unethical, and yet you believe what they say? Don't we have contrary reports in this thread to what Fisher's VP said to you?

I understand the frustration ... especially as the Christmas break wraps up and real programming returns. Go if you must.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

WebTraveler said:


> This issue is going nowhere. Dish doesn't even respond any more. In the Charlie Chat they swore every email would be read. I've sent several over the past several days and have not even received the generic Charlie Ergen trash back.
> 
> I am afraid that I am going to need to pull the trigger on Dish to rid myself of this problem. The fact remains the conduct of Fisher is unethical in their quest to change the compensation for a broadcast station and be treated like a cable channel. But the truth is that Charlie Ergen is a child when it comes to disputes. His method of dealing with people is avoidance and to give the ultimate cold shoulder to people. Personally, Charlie needs to act like a gentleman and at least engage in negotiations for the sake of his customers.
> 
> ...


You can cry, whine, and call people names all you want but it is pretty interesting that Dish has been able to come to terms with WUPV, KTKA, , WHDF, WQCW, WUFX, and WDBD (which represents 4 different ownership groups) in the last week, so it isn't like they aren't trying to get deals done. Makes it sound like it isn't necessarily Dish who is dragging their feet on this one.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> You can cry, whine, and call people names all you want but it is pretty interesting that Dish has been able to come to terms with WUPV, KTKA, , WHDF, WQCW, WUFX, and WDBD (which represents 4 different ownership groups) in the last week, so it isn't like they aren't trying to get deals done. Makes it sound like it isn't necessarily Dish who is dragging their feet on this one.


You are right, I can call people what I want to call them. I want my channels back. I don't really give a rats bottom who is at fault. I am just plain sick of it.

Maybe it is not Dish, but then update the page and say that while there have been counter offers by Fisher, they still are outside the bounds of reason if that is what it is. Recall Charlie promised he'd update the page; he hasn't. To say since December 17/18 to today that there is nothing new to report is probably not correct. It may not be big news, it may not be much, but if Fisher is still beign unreasonable I'd expect to see that.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> They said they would READ your email ... they did not promise a reply.
> .


Oh well, glad you find humor in all of this


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I got the following response from Fisher about 2 weeks ago:

"Thank you for your email. 

We want to thank you for caring enough about our programming to take the time to write. Please know that we attempted to extend the expiration of our current contract with DISH to work out the terms of a new agreement, but they rejected our proposal. We're obviously disappointed by their decision as it is you who is hurt the most. 

We know that you don’t really care whose fault this is, you just want to be able to watch your favorite programs and local news. But we thought you might like to know how this works. DISH pays a small amount of your monthly fee to every network or local station they carry. Please know that despite DISH's claim, our request is for a modest increase and is still considerably less than the amount they pay for less popular program networks. In fact, we have preliminarily agreed on the rate, but other issues are preventing a deal from being finalized. 

While I can’t go into greater detail, you should know that we believe DISH Network has violated the terms of our existing agreement. They have failed to pay us for one of our stations for the past two years! I would expect that if I were a DISH subscriber and I didn't pay my bill for two years, they would shut off my service and seek my back pay. 

Please know that we are continuing our negotiations with DISH Network and doing all we can to reach a settlement. Thank you again for your email and we regret this has caused you any inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Colleen Brown
President and Chief Executive Officer
Fisher Communications, Inc."


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Its sounds like a pissing match is now on and both sides have a different story to tell us. I would like to give a big ^%%$$ to both CEOs at this moment.


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## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

So it sounds like they have reached a deal on the new contract but now they want the compensation for the carriage of KUNP which is the channel they are refering to which was being carried w/o compensation...Thats my understanding


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## crrscott (Oct 10, 2005)

When you have two sides that are making statements which are so far apart....82% increase, Highest price for any network channel in the country...Dish A modest increase and is still considerably less than the amount they pay for less popular program networks...Fisher
Some one is a bold face liar and it makes it hard to beleive anything which comes from both sides. If we can obtain info on what Dish has paid for stations like ESPN, TNT, and CMT, why can't we get info on what they have paid for network channels in the past?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

crrscott said:


> When you have two sides that are making statements which are so far apart....82% increase, Highest price for any network channel in the country...Dish A modest increase and is still considerably less than the amount they pay for less popular program networks...Fisher
> Some one is a bold face liar and it makes it hard to beleive anything which comes from both sides. If we can obtain info on what Dish has paid for stations like ESPN, TNT, and CMT, why can't we get info on what they have paid for network channels in the past?


Those two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive.



crrscott said:


> 82% increase, Highest price for any network channel in the country...Dish


DISH's "highest price" comment is referring to "network channels" (i.e. local broadcast channels). The increased fee request may very well make the Fisher stations the most expensive local broadcast stations. Of course we have no way to verify this, but surely the most expensive local broadcast stations are not collecting anywhere near the rates of the national channels.



crrscott said:


> A modest increase and is still considerably less than the amount they pay for less popular program networks...Fisher


Comparing the prices of limited-broadcast-area local broadcast stations with the prices of much more popular, much more viewed national stations is misleading. Do they really think their channels have the same viewership as ESPN? Yes, maybe a few customers drop DISH while the Fisher stations are off the air, but if DISH dropped ESPN, they would have an absolute revolt on their hands.

To properly compare popularity, They would have to compare the viewership of the Fisher stations with the viewership of the national cable channels _in the Fisher markets_, based on the same local population.


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## TomH (Jun 11, 2005)

WebTraveler said:


> Oh well, glad you find humor in all of this


What else CAN you do?


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

TomH said:


> What else CAN you do?


1. Question the integrity of those involved.
2. Point out the excessive and ridiculous compensation Fisher CEO Brown has and allege the rate increase will effectively go straight to her unreasonable compensation.
3. Point out Dish CEO Ergen's own excessive compensation.
4. Contact the FCC and complain about a broadcast station's excessive charges. Maybe when the station comes up for renewal this will get som scrutiny
5. Contact the Better Business Bureau and file a complaint in the name of Fisher as well as the individual stations. Fisher and its stations generally have to respond; if they do not the BBB will rate them less than A; so at a minimum Fisher will need a person and time to do this for each complaint received.
6. Contact Senators and Congress people. If the Senate can hold a hearing on the NFL network and it's disputes with cable providers AND get a NFL Network game on both CBS and NBC than Congress surely can hold a hearing on this channel removal issue.
7. Turn up the pressure on Fisher and it's senior management. When you run into Fisher TV personalities doing their personal errands (which does happen quite frequently, by the way) you can give them an earful about how Fisher is screwing us; at a minimum it will make the Fisher personality uncomfortable and make them say something to their boss. Every little bit of heat helps.
8. Point out to Fisher's advertisers how the channel is not as available as its competitors in the market and that the advertiser should choose it's relationship carefully; perhaps I won't buy from an advertiser of Fisher. Or the advertiser will demand lower rates so to accomodate all of this.

One can do a lot. In the end, however, how much will matter? I am not sure. Most of the channels that go off of Dish return in a few days. Here were 3+ weeks out now, so the current pressure applied is not enough. But as new, unaired programming starts coming as January progresses, I am sure the heat will get greater.

I can't believe that Directv is paying an 82% increase, or it's contract is not up, but will when it is? I just cannot believe that.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WebTraveler said:


> I can't believe that Directv is paying an 82% increase, or it's contract is not up, but will when it is? I just cannot believe that.


Here is a theoretical with completely fake numbers:

In the past (perhaps at the end of 2005) DISH makes a deal with Fishers for 55c per subscriber. Soon after DirecTV makes a deal for 70c per subscriber.

For the next three years Fishers feels ripped off by DISH, even though they are paying a rate Fisher agreed to. Now both contracts are up and there is some "catching up" to do. Fisher got 70c from DirecTV, why not ask for $1?

DISH sees this as an 81.8% rate increase. DirecTV would see it as a 42.8% increase.

Or perhaps at the end of 2005 DISH made a deal with Fishers for 50c per subscriber with a 4% built in increase per year.
2006 50c, 2007 52c , 2008 54c. Fisher now wants 98c and DISH wants to pay 56c.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

I also believe this is more than the KATU and other stations issue. I think it is deeper than that. Here in Portland we have a Spanish language channel (16). In the past this channel was not owned by Fisher until a few years ago (?) It is on our system under the "must carry" rules, meaning Dish isn't paying for it, but is carrying it because the station elected "must carry" and therefore, its on the system.

So now Fisher wants compensation for channel 16. Dish says no, not paying for it. Fisher says no compensation for channel 16, no channel 2. Dish says OK. I think this is what the stalemate is all about.

Fisher has to fund Colleen Brown's expensive salary some way. It's a lot of excessive cash and there is simply not enough dollars in broadcasting today to support it.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

WebTraveler said:


> I also believe this is more than the KATU and other stations issue. I think it is deeper than that. Here in Portland we have a Spanish language channel (16). In the past this channel was not owned by Fisher until a few years ago (?) It is on our system under the "must carry" rules, meaning Dish isn't paying for it, but is carrying it because the station elected "must carry" and therefore, its on the system.
> 
> So now Fisher wants compensation for channel 16. Dish says no, not paying for it. Fisher says no compensation for channel 16, no channel 2. Dish says OK. I think this is what the stalemate is all about.
> 
> Fisher has to fund Colleen Brown's expensive salary some way. It's a lot of excessive cash and there is simply not enough dollars in broadcasting today to support it.


That's probably part of what is in the lawsuit.

If Fisher gets their head around that concept and drops the lawsuit, and request compensation from here on - that would be one step in the right direction. There are only certain times when a station can change from Must Carry to Compensation.


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## sotti (Jan 6, 2006)

No update on this yet 

my wife really misses her ABC.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sotti said:


> No update on this yet
> 
> my wife really misses her ABC.


I know its not the best, but ABC.com has all the lastest episodes online right now. Give her the laptop and let her watch her shows in bed.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I only miss Lost, only show I watch on ABC. Looks like crap on my CPU. 

It was one of the treats of TV, Lost in HD. Damm these people.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

calgary2800 said:


> I only miss Lost, only show I watch on ABC. Looks like crap on my CPU.
> 
> It was one of the treats of TV, Lost in HD. Damm these people.


http://watchlost.info/
and its in HD too.
Never used the site before myself.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I have this gut feeling this impasse will last a while. I'm lucky that we can get KOMO OTA, so we're at least not totally out of luck.

John


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I plan on losing the entire TV season due to fisher and dish for 09. My question is for those who follow Lost. How long is the wait till this coming season hits blu-ray. I amost refuse to watch this show in SD. Nothing but HD or Blu ray will do.


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## mattwier (Jul 31, 2002)

If the pattern holds, the previous season usually releases on disc a couple of months before the new season airs. Since the final two seasons will air without a break, season six will likely air in Jan. '10, so I would imagine season five will probably be out in Dec. '09.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

TomH said:


> What else CAN you do?


Put up an antenna. Locals in my area are not HD, with my homemade coathanger antenna now get them in HD.

When the missing channel comes back I will have a dilemma. Watch football games (only thing I ever watch on broadcast networks) in HD with commercials or SD on the DVR ff'ing commercials. If I have to watch a few more angry whopper or Ram truck commercials think I'll wind up using the DVR.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

BaldEagle said:


> Put up an antenna. Locals in my area are not HD, with my homemade coathanger antenna now get them in HD.
> 
> When the missing channel comes back I will have a dilemma. Watch football games (only thing I ever watch on broadcast networks) in HD with commercials or SD on the DVR ff'ing commercials. If I have to watch a few more angry whopper or Ram truck commercials think I'll wind up using the DVR.


If you get them via OTA, why not just record the OTA? What Reciever do you have?


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> If you get them via OTA, why not just record the OTA? What Reciever do you have?


I don't have a HD receiver. Have a 625 and 501.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

BaldEagle said:


> I don't have a HD receiver. Have a 625 and 501.


625 supports ota, give it a try.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> 625 supports ota, give it a try.


625 is not HD, what would be the benefit? Also, presently the OTA antenna feed only goes the HD TV that is hooked up to the 501. Plan on getting an amplified splitter and running the OTA feed to TV's and the 625. We just got the HD TV.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> 625 supports ota, give it a try.


No it doesn't - all the 625 can do is pass it through. There is no OTA tuner built into a 625. I know - I own one. The only DBS receivers that Dish currently makes that have OTA tuners are the VIP HDTV receivers - and even for them - the tuner only support ATSC (OTA digital).


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

BaldEagle said:


> 625 is not HD, what would be the benefit? Also, presently the OTA antenna feed only goes the HD TV that is hooked up to the 501. Plan on getting an amplified splitter and running the OTA feed to TV's and the 625. We just got the HD TV.


So you use the 501 instead of the 625 to pass it through, that works too. Been so long since I had some of that equipment, I forget, they just pass through, even with dual tuners, like the 625. 
Time for a ViP722k?


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I got a 5 dollar credit for 5 months for *****ing to a csr at dish. Anyone do better? I am thinking about going back to cable for my HD service.


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## rgrgrg (Nov 9, 2008)

saw the dish program guide has been updated to show new programming at 2 pm on tuesday the 20th, did they settle?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Nothing on the Fisher Site. This update seems to happen every week, and then switchs back.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

It's just incredible. Within a few days of being offline, nearly every other channel comes back online. I have to believe that Fisher is just way out of bounds with demands for it to get to this since Dish has been successful at keeping other channels on. This is just ridiculous.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

See you in 2010 Fisher. :nono2:


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## rbonzer (May 13, 2002)

I just wish Dish would give us the correct guide data for the OTA version. Is there some problem with doing that? Then I'd be less nervous with all the OTA timers I have set up.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Bakersfield, CA took it really hard. I see they lost Fox and CBS therefore no NFL playoffs at all.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

calgary2800 said:


> Bakersfield, CA took it really hard. I see they lost Fox and CBS therefore no NFL playoffs at all.


Lost only CBS here but made this:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

Put it in the backyard instead of the attic, works great.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rbonzer said:


> I just wish Dish would give us the correct guide data for the OTA version. Is there some problem with doing that? Then I'd be less nervous with all the OTA timers I have set up.


To date, the underlying guide data has been correct and I've not missed any of the programs I had set to run.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Even more time goes by and still nothing. Fisher just does not get it.


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## ckgrick (Oct 25, 2004)

Lawyers are involved; need I say more.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

Ugh, I hate living in the middle of nowhere in Oregon because I can't get any OTA signal at all, I absolutely hate Fisher now and I don't think this dispute will ever get resolved.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Oh - it probably will - just not fast enough (by your standards), and we understand your frustration.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

ckgrick said:


> Lawyers are involved; need I say more.


Lawyers are what is wrong with America. If I had my way I would burn all of them. They ad very little value to America, but reap and pillage from us. Of course, when this is all resolved they'll walk away with big cash and the rest of us will pay more.


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## rgrgrg (Nov 9, 2008)

does anyone know if they are even still talking or did they give up?


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## ckgrick (Oct 25, 2004)

I read on another forum that Fisher and E* have actually come to an agreement on the carry fee for the primary channel in each market. It’s the Fisher lawsuit over what Fisher thinks is due them in the past for carrying the other channels no one watches that is delaying a final resolution. Back to my previous post.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

OK, so this is weird. Program guide info just started showing up for a couple of shows this evening on KOMO. Their web site says E* is still locked out. 

John


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

JM Anthony said:


> OK, so this is weird. Program guide info just started showing up for a couple of shows this evening on KOMO. Their web site says E* is still locked out.
> 
> John


Every week this shows up and then goes away.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

rgrgrg said:


> does anyone know if they are even still talking or did they give up?


According to Fisher Dish Network has not responded to their attempts at negotiations. My belief is that this means that Fisher's demands are so far outside the parameters of reasonable that there is no point in even distinguishing their ridiculous offers with a response.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Is the CEO of Fisher accountable to anyone? If she screws up royally and costs Fisher millions going foward who does she have to face? No one probably. 

Go Dish.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

calgary2800 said:


> Is the CEO of Fisher accountable to anyone? If she screws up royally and costs Fisher millions going foward who does she have to face? No one probably.
> 
> Go Dish.


Yeah, a Board of Directors. Just a guess, but I suspect they're on board. This isn't the kind of thing a CEO would do on a whim.

John


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

calgary2800 said:


> Is the CEO of Fisher accountable to anyone? *If she screws up royally *and costs Fisher millions going foward who does she have to face? No one probably.
> 
> Go Dish.


She's done it.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

calgary2800 said:


> I plan on losing the entire TV season due to fisher and dish for 09. My question is for those who follow Lost. How long is the wait till this coming season hits blu-ray. I amost refuse to watch this show in SD. Nothing but HD or Blu ray will do.


Go to http://www.hulu.com. They have hundreds of TV shows some entire series from the 50's through today. I don't watch Lost but I'm sure they have it.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Nothing is cutting it. I still get to watch Lost in SD on the tube TV ( the cable company forget to disconnet the thing when I cancelled them)

The show is a far cry from when I got to watch it on a 50 plasma. Its was stunning in HD. The first few weeks I didnt think much of this Fisher-Dish war but now thats it affects the only show I enjoy it has crushed my TV season. 

I seriously thought it was going to be a 1 or 2 week battle. 

Why God Why?


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## theedger (Mar 31, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> Go to http://www.hulu.com. They have hundreds of TV shows some entire series from the 50's through today. I don't watch Lost but I'm sure they have it.


The best website to watch "Lost" is abc.com. HQ picture and all episodes.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

More and more time goes by and still no Dish/Fisher agreement. Fisher's VP tells me twice they've had a deal with Dish, only to get a call later from a higher source at Dish telling them "NO."

My personal belief is that this is ridiculous. For almost 2 months now we have not had ABC programming on Dish and Dish appears to be doing little to correct that. I am loosing faith and each month my remaining contract term is falling and falling. According to Dish my contract runs out in May; that time is fast approaching and bye bye Dish. Unless Charlie Ergen figures this all out I will be one of those goners. And you know what? It is all solvable. The technology is fine, the quality is fine. It is just the arrogance of Charlie Ergen.....


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

WebTraveler said:


> More and more time goes by and still no Dish/Fisher agreement. Fisher's VP tells me twice they've had a deal with Dish, only to get a call later from a higher source at Dish telling them "NO."
> 
> My personal belief is that this is ridiculous. For almost 2 months now we have not had ABC programming on Dish and Dish appears to be doing little to correct that. I am loosing faith and each month my remaining contract term is falling and falling. According to Dish my contract runs out in May; that time is fast approaching and bye bye Dish. Unless Charlie Ergen figures this all out I will be one of those goners. And you know what? It is all solvable. The technology is fine, the quality is fine. It is just the arrogance of Charlie Ergen.....


What about the arrogance of Fisher ?


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

Dish could update their loop on the ABC channel to give us more info.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

True, that loop is from 12/28...almost a month and a half old. This situation is so stupid I can't even believe it.


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## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

The reason it's at a stalemate is because there's a lawsuit in the Oregon courts right now for breach of contract.


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## Kolhell (Jan 21, 2009)

people get really up in arms over this stuff eh?

just out of curiosity, has D* ever been in this situation before? i cant imagine that this only happens to E*, but i am willing to accept that charlie is just stubborn which is why this issue tends to pop up on an annual basis XD


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Kolhell said:


> people get really up in arms over this stuff eh?
> 
> just out of curiosity, has D* ever been in this situation before? i cant imagine that this only happens to E*, but i am willing to accept that charlie is just stubborn which is why this issue tends to pop up on an annual basis XD


It happens to D* also, just not usually as publicly.
Check out http://www.directv.com/alerts


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm not sure if Fisher knows that in today's world. Any income is better than zip, nada, nothing.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

scooper said:


> What about the arrogance of Fisher ?


No one disputes that.

But as a customer I expect that the two parties negotiate in good faith and stop acting like children.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Kolhell said:


> people get really up in arms over this stuff eh?
> 
> just out of curiosity, has D* ever been in this situation before? i cant imagine that this only happens to E*, but i am willing to accept that charlie is just stubborn which is why this issue tends to pop up on an annual basis XD


Ok, maybe you are naive or something else, but people get worked up because they subscribe to TV to actually watch it. It's a relatively simple concept. When we can't watch what we want because of two sides acting like children, we do get upset.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Raymie said:


> The reason it's at a stalemate is because there's a lawsuit in the Oregon courts right now for breach of contract.


That is a crock. 98% or whatever high number it is of lawsuits get settled way before they see the court room.

Then again, some attorneys, rape their clients for every legal fee they can. That is probably what is happening here.

But at the end of the day Dish customers are leaving. My contract is nearing its end and I will probably be forced to leave when it is. The purpose of having the Dish is to receive the signal.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You're not forced to do anything. Not having your ABC channel may encourage you to find another provider but no one is forcing you. Attacking posters on our forum won't get your channels back.

There is a pending lawsuit ... Fisher has chosen their path. If they want to negotiate the end of the suit that would be great, but nothing posted shows a willingness to end the suit.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Fisher is trying to chase past money they didnt smartly get in the first place. Its like me suing the Nasdaq when I lost my shirt in the 2000 tech bubble. A joke.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> You're not forced to do anything. Not having your ABC channel may encourage you to find another provider but no one is forcing you. Attacking posters on our forum won't get your channels back.
> 
> There is a pending lawsuit ... Fisher has chosen their path. If they want to negotiate the end of the suit that would be great, but nothing posted shows a willingness to end the suit.


Excuse me, but who is attacking posters?

Also, call it what you want, but I am being forced to change. I have Dish because I want to watch TV. If I am not able to watch my local channels that every other provider has, that is a problem. I am being forced.

By the way, in terms of a lawsuit, that is the Dish mode of operation. Force everything to litigation to stall, stall, and stall.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

WebTraveler said:


> Also, call it what you want, but I am being forced to change. I have Dish because I want to watch TV. If I am not able to watch my local channels that every other provider has, that is a problem. I am being forced.


Imagine this:
* An executive has a contract that prevents him from quitting without penalty.
* The company's board of directors decides to demote him to the mailroom, reason unknown.
* The now-former executive, not enjoying his new job in the mailroom and feeling that the company no longer values him as an employee, decides to quit the company.

The executive was not "forced" to quit. Yes, he was put in a position that made him _want_ to quit, but he was not _forced_. And, when he announces his resignation, he can fully expect to pay the penalty written into his employment contract.

In your case, you are not being _forced_ to leave. DishNet may have demoted you to the mailroom, but it is still your choice to quit.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

WebTraveler said:


> Ok, maybe you are naive or something else, but people get worked up because they subscribe to TV to actually watch it. It's a relatively simple concept. When we can't watch what we want because of two sides acting like children, we do get upset.


Wow, talk about acting like children...your life must be complete hell if you have a power outage for a day or two and can't watch tv...
You act like it is your right to have channels. The only thing you have the right to do is to go somewhere else if you don't like it. so...


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> Wow, talk about acting like children...your life must be complete hell if you have a power outage for a day or two and can't watch tv...
> You act like it is your right to have channels. The only thing you have the right to do is to go somewhere else if you don't like it. so...


And what value are you adding to this? Sitting on the side fence and thrusting comments like this designed to simply antagonize the situation even more.

By the way it's been just short of 2 months of the channels being off. So that is hardly two days. Perhaps if you took the time to understand the facts before barreling into this.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Call it whatever you want. The fact remains that if I want to watch programs on the ABC network I am FORCED to look elsewhere. Not sure your logic is even rational, but instead is simply splitting the meaning of words to get to your desired result. You are right, no one is physically forcing me to move to another provider. But the definition of force is much more than a physical definition. Look it up.



Kheldar said:


> Imagine this:
> * An executive has a contract that prevents him from quitting without penalty.
> * The company's board of directors decides to demote him to the mailroom, reason unknown.
> * The now-former executive, not enjoying his new job in the mailroom and feeling that the company no longer values him as an employee, decides to quit the company.
> ...


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## Kolhell (Jan 21, 2009)

switching providers over this makes sense; getting upset does not. sure it may not be a great situation, especially if youre under contract, but at no point has any pay tv provider guaranteed to do more than give you what you need to get their signal. hell, dish doesnt even guarantee that said signal will make it to your tv past 90 days XD

so why get all fire and brimstone about it?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

WebTraveler said:


> ...By the way it's been just short of 2 months of the channels being off...


Actually it has only been a month and a half, but who's counting...I can see how it could seem like two months though.



WebTraveler said:


> ...Perhaps if you took the time to understand the facts before barreling into this.


I understand fine. In the same time period that Fisher has been down, Dish was able to come to terms with Free State Communications, Jackson Television, Lockwood, and Raycom Media, Inc. All with local channel dispute. Interesting that Dish was able to work out deals with them and Fisher is still not done. Fisher decided to throw a lawsuit in for good measure to try and get even more out of Dish. I understand it fine.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Slamminc11 said:


> I understand fine. In the same time period that Fisher has been down, Dish was able to come to terms with Free State Communications, Jackson Television, Lockwood, and Raycom Media, Inc. All with local channel dispute. Interesting that Dish was able to work out deals with them and Fisher is still not done. Fisher decided to throw a lawsuit in for good measure to try and get even more out of Dish. I understand it fine.


Look at it from the other side also:
In the same time that the channels have been off DISH, Fisher has reached agreements with Cable One (covering Boise, Idaho Falls, Lewiston and Pocatello, Idaho.), Charter (covering Seattle, Portland, Eugene and Yakima), and Comcast.

Interesting that Fisher was able to work out deals with them and DISH is still not done.

There are two sides to this issue. We have no idea which side is holding up the negotiations, and probably never will find out. Once it is resolved, both companies will issue press releases about how happy they are that they are partners with the other one.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> Look at it from the other side also:
> In the same time that the channels have been off DISH, Fisher has reached agreements with Cable One (covering Boise, Idaho Falls, Lewiston and Pocatello, Idaho.), Charter (covering Seattle, Portland, Eugene and Yakima), and Comcast.
> 
> Interesting that Fisher was able to work out deals with them and DISH is still not done.
> ...


Very good point. Granted as long as the Fisher Lawsuit is in play, both sides are going to be slow on getting things accomplished.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Slamminc11 said:


> Actually it has only been a month and a half, but who's counting...I can see how it could seem like two months though.
> 
> I understand fine. In the same time period that Fisher has been down, Dish was able to come to terms with Free State Communications, Jackson Television, Lockwood, and Raycom Media, Inc. All with local channel dispute. Interesting that Dish was able to work out deals with them and Fisher is still not done. Fisher decided to throw a lawsuit in for good measure to try and get even more out of Dish. I understand it fine.


It's actually 7 weeks as of tomorrow.

Simply put, you don't have an idea of what is happening. Somehow you think that the situation is simply OK and that one should just take it. If you have read this post and others I have been equally hard on Fisher and Dish. But for goodness sake, Dish claims to have agreements with over 1,000 stations and Fisher has claimed to have it's signal available to 90% of TVs in it's markets. But these two groups who point out how flexible they are cannot come to agreement amongst themselves?


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Kolhell said:


> switching providers over this makes sense; getting upset does not. sure it may not be a great situation, especially if youre under contract, but at no point has any pay tv provider guaranteed to do more than give you what you need to get their signal. hell, dish doesnt even guarantee that said signal will make it to your tv past 90 days XD
> 
> so why get all fire and brimstone about it?


So just sit back and take it all and say/do nothing? And that will solve it how?


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> Very good point. Granted as long as the Fisher Lawsuit is in play, both sides are going to be slow on getting things accomplished.


None of us has any idea of what the lawsuit actually says and that is simply speculation. In some cases lawsuits actually speed up resolution. At some point sides are forced by the Judge to try to work out their issues before going to trial. Dish does have a theory of litigate it all, regardless of whomever is right or wrong.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

WebTraveler said:


> So just sit back and take it all and say/do nothing? And that will solve it how?


Do you really think that anything you do or say will solve it?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WebTraveler said:


> So just sit back and take it all and say/do nothing? And that will solve it how?


About the same as complaining here.


WebTraveler said:


> None of us has any idea of what the lawsuit actually says and that is simply speculation.


Are you speculating that no one has any idea of what the lawsuit says? Fisher stated their issues in one of their initial statements. If you want to pay a few hundred dollars we can access the exact wording of the lawsuit online (Oregon Courts are not free online) or you could take a little field trip and provide the information for free from a public terminal.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

WebTraveler said:


> None of us has any idea of what the lawsuit actually says and that is simply speculation. In some cases lawsuits actually speed up resolution. At some point sides are forced by the Judge to try to work out their issues before going to trial. Dish does have a theory of litigate it all, regardless of whomever is right or wrong.


Lawsuits speed things up, when one party starts to sweat they are going to lose. Both parties in this one have already stated, the problem is about Cash Fisher believes it is owed, for varies stations they bought, that were already being carried by Dish, and other must carries. 
Charlie doesn't Blink, never has, never will. Filing a lawsuit against those that have been there before, when dealing with those that are growing and wanting money for something the don't deserve, wont speed it up. Asking for money and the KIND of money they want, for services already rendered is pretty dump on Fishers part.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

If the suit turns out to be a "must carry" issue the Oregon court may have no standing anyway.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnH said:


> If the suit turns out to be a "must carry" issue the Oregon court may have no standing anyway.


"Meanwhile, Fisher announced that it has filed a $1 million breach of contract lawsuit over Dish's failure to comply with the terms of the prior carriage agreement. The lawsuit was filed Thursday in federal district court in Oregon."​http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/12/dish_drops_fisher_stations.php

"Fisher claims that Dish Network violated the terms of a carriage agreement when it failed to retransmit Univision affiliate KUNP-TV's signal in Portland, Ore., from July 2006, when Fisher acquired the station, until April 30 of this year. In addition, Dish Network has not paid Fisher any carriage fees for KUNP, as specified in the prior agreement, the suit claims.

Dish is currently carrying KUNP, and did not drop it as part of the current retrans dispute.

In its complaint, Fisher also said that Dish Network breached the prior carriage agreement when it failed to pay Fisher in full for broadcasting KBAK-TV and KBFX-TV in Bakersfield, Calif., on its service. Those two stations are among the nine stations that Dish Network dropped Wednesday.

Fisher acquired the two stations Jan. 1 from Westwind Communications. While Dish has acknowledged that it has underpaid Fisher during that time period, it has not submitted proper payments to the company, the suit alleges."​http://www.multichannel.com/article...or_Breach_of_Contract_After_Station_Drops.php


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Who to believe x 1000000????

In the loop Charlie and gang make Fisher seem like one sided business loons with his constant 82% increase, fair market value, etc. 

Now I read the above and it seems Fisher has just cause. 

This is better than the soaps I am missing on ABC.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

calgary2800 said:


> Now I read the above and it seems Fisher has just cause.


The suit is ALL "according to Fisher". No guarantee that it is right.

I believe there was a misunderstanding with Fisher trying to apply an existing contract for six of their stations to new stations that were purchased during the life of that contract. We discussed it a little back in December when the story came out.

I don't see DISH signing a contract that doesn't including ending the lawsuit and a rate no larger than any other station in a market of the same size.
I don't see Fisher signing a contract that doesn't include payment for past carriage - even if DISH had a different contract with the previous station owner - and a large rate increase.

BTW: Fisher has applied to turn off the analog broadcasts of all of their stations on February 17th ... leaving reception up to cable, DirecTV or digital converter boxes and ATSC tuner TVs/receivers. It would be good for them to settle with DISH for those customers who are using analog while waiting for the issue to be settled. Otherwise they really are throwing away their viewers.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> Do you really think that anything you do or say will solve it?


Perhaps; public pressure pointing out certain things does work. One does not have to take a perceived misjustice quietly.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

For those of us blacked out, why don't we stage a one day picket of the affected affiliates? Would be interesting to see which, if any, local stations covered the event!

John


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

JM Anthony said:


> For those of us blacked out, why don't we stage a one day picket of the affected affiliates? Would be interesting to see which, if any, local stations covered the event!
> 
> John


I think that would be a good idea, but tell them you are going to be bashing Dish. There is plenty of Blame to go around, and they might show up if they think you are just going to BASH Dish, and then have signs blaming both of them.


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## harmil2 (Nov 22, 2003)

I really don't think this is going to be fixed up with Fischer anytime soon. Everyone has their jaws set and there are big stubborn egos and money at stake.

Perhaps we should discuss alternatives like OTA antennas (the best hd reception of all) for those close enough to get reception as well as using www.abc.com where folks can get all the abc shows for free (in HD yet) on their pc and with minimal 30 sec. commercials. If those don't work for some there is always renting episodes through Netflix etc. when they become available around the end of the season. None of these are as good as the way it was, but things to be considered if one doesn't want the hassle of switching to Directv (clearly also a reasonable alternative and why isn't Directv offering special incentives/advertizing to pull in Dish users in the effected zip codes).

I think Charlie needs to put together a video loop outlining exactly how people can use althernatives (well, not the directv one of course) at home until the issues get resolved. Hell, if I was him I would be teaching folks how to use ota antennas and computers to get their abc shows. Some people I talk to are surprised to learn OTA is even an option...too young to remember rooftop atennas I guess, or just forgot about them. Charly could even offer free or cheap antennas to Dish customers, perhaps low cost video cards with dual monitor outputs for their computers, or at least teach them about how to use the internet abc offerings. Better educated customers might stick with Dish if they understood how to use alternatives.

Yes, this is all a pain in the butt, but we really can all see our favorite abc shows now or in the near future if they are really important to us. That said I would be really pleased to wake up tomorrow and have the Fischer stations back on Dish...just don't think it will happen any time soon thus my suggestions.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

This will never be resolved. Bye Dish...I'm switching to DirecTV. :nono2:


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Both losers in my book.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Maybe the recurring Charlie Chat from December should be updated. Maybe www.Fairsatellite.com should be updated.

Maybe Fisher should update its webpage as well.

Maybe both side should actually talk to each other. Maybe reasonable people can reach a reasonable resolution.

The fact remains Fisher has damaged its name in the Portland market (and probably the others) and Dish Network has damaged its name as well. In time Dish will lose customers as renewals come up, assuming the same dispute doesn't pop up at the competitor providers.

I do think Dish tried to pull a fast one on this - the night before shut off (before I even knew it was happening) Dish called with some offer to get something (free pay channels for X months) for a new 2 year contract. Smartly, I said no way; I knew something was not right. Basically Dish knew it was going to take a hit and wanted to lock me down (deceptively) to a new contract.

Both Dish and Fisher have created a mess that will take some time to undue.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I hope this gets settled by the time the NBA playoffs start. I think ABC carries it this year again.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

calgary2800 said:


> I hope this gets settled by the time the NBA playoffs start. I think ABC carries it this year again.


Well its not like the Sonics are going to be in the Playoff's.:lol::lol:
Opps, no more Sonics at all.:lol::lol:

Sorry couldn't help myself. From Seattle originally, but have always been a Blazer Fan.
I hope for all involved it gets handled sooner than later. Seattle one of those city's, your nieghbor can get very good OTA, and you can't at all, just the way the hills work, and depends on what part of the city area you are in.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well its not like the Sonics are going to be in the Playoff's.:lol::lol:
> Opps, no more Sonics at all.:lol::lol:
> 
> Sorry couldn't help myself. From Seattle originally, but have always been a Blazer Fan.QUOTE]
> ...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

coldsteel said:


> GrumpyBear said:
> 
> 
> > Well its not like the Sonics are going to be in the Playoff's.:lol::lol:
> ...


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## sotti (Jan 6, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well its not like the Sonics are going to be in the Playoff's.:lol::lol:
> Opps, no more Sonics at all.:lol::lol:
> 
> Sorry couldn't help myself. From Seattle originally, but have always been a Blazer Fan.
> I hope for all involved it gets handled sooner than later. Seattle one of those city's, your nieghbor can get very good OTA, and you can't at all, just the way the hills work, and depends on what part of the city area you are in.


maybe we could get comcast sports net and actually watch some blazer games


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well its not like the Sonics are going to be in the Playoff's.:lol::lol:
> Opps, no more Sonics at all.:lol::lol:
> 
> Sorry couldn't help myself. From Seattle originally, but have always been a Blazer Fan.
> I hope for all involved it gets handled sooner than later. Seattle one of those city's, your nieghbor can get very good OTA, and you can't at all, just the way the hills work, and depends on what part of the city area you are in.


Well even in Portland we can't watch the Blazers because Dish won't carry Comcast SportsNet Northwest, another Charlie Ergen decision. This decision, however, is probably not really Charlie being unreasonable. Its more of a Comcast David Manougian thing, which is why Direct has not picked it up either.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

How long is the lawsuit going to go for ? Years, decades. A duel to the dealth between CEOs? I'm under contract for about 15 more months. Can I leave without dish going after me. I feel they are not living up to providing me with all my local channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The only way to know for sure is to ask DISH. At worst you'll pay the pro-rated cancellation penalty.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

calgary2800 said:


> How long is the lawsuit going to go for ? Years, decades. A duel to the dealth between CEOs? I'm under contract for about 15 more months. Can I leave without dish going after me. I feel they are not living up to providing me with all my local channels.


Might want to take a read at that contract you signed. Dish can change programming at any time (add/drop). They aren't required to carry any channel for you, so it will cost you between $150 and $200 to get out of your contract...


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

So the worse that can happen is Dish sending me to collections for 150-200 bucks. The agency gets half of whatever is collected. Is it worth it to dish to do this to me. Just an example.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

calgary2800 said:


> So the worse that can happen is Dish sending me to collections for 150-200 bucks. The agency gets half of whatever is collected. Is it worth it to dish to do this to me. Just an example.


I believe the question would be, are you willing to do it to your credit? Because, yes, they will turn you over PDQ...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

calgary2800 said:


> So the worse that can happen is Dish sending me to collections for 150-200 bucks. The agency gets half of whatever is collected. Is it worth it to dish to do this to me. Just an example.


It depends. Are you really that big of a pain in the ..... 

I'm just a guy on the internet. If you want to know what DISH thinks ask DISH. You have their number ... they have your account information. Between you and the company you'll have to work things out for yourselves. The cancellation fee may be pro rated. But that is something DISH will have to say, not us guys on the internet.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

It's about $13 a month for the remaining months. I have contacted Dish a couple different times and have less than $55 due if I canned this thing right now. Every month it gets less. In some ways paying the $55 for me is not a big deal.

But I do like the Dish technology and the set up. I've looked into Directv's technology and to use their DVRs while you watch one program you need to have two cable lines going into it. I am just not excited to get a second set of wires and the complications that causes. I don't know why they can't do two off of one, like Dish says.

But the management of Dish and the morons they have that work at the senior levels leaves something to be desired. The [email protected] is not the senior office like one thinks it is - it's just a buffer between the regular customer service and the senior leadership team. I was told nobody gets to ever talk to the senior leadership team, period. Outside of finding these clowns home numbers, our thoughts and comments about Fisher are not even being heard. Charlie Chat is full of propaganda and they shield you from talking to them and selectively take people.

Unless Fisher drops the whole thing completely and goes with the old rates this simply will not get resolved - until lots of contracts come up and people start leaving in droves because of this issue. In time they will....


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

WebTraveler said:


> But I do like the Dish technology and the set up. I've looked into Directv's technology and to use their DVRs while you watch one program you need to have two cable lines going into it. I am just not excited to get a second set of wires and the complications that causes. I don't know why they can't do two off of one, like Dish says.


They can, and do, with D*'s Single Wire Multiswitch.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> They can, and do, with D*'s Single Wire Multiswitch.


Really? I have to wonder because that was a specific discussion I had with the 1-800 group. That is good to know, maybe Dish is done for me - I need to investigate that.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I could use a little less conflict in my life so Dish and Charlie's always gotta fight this and that vibe will be gone when my contract is up.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

WebTraveler said:


> Really? I have to wonder because that was a specific discussion I had with the 1-800 group. That is good to know, maybe Dish is done for me - I need to investigate that.


The SWM (Single-Wire Multiswitch) cannot be requested, and is only available in certain areas.

However, you can find it at stores like SolidSignal.com for more info.

The only way you might be able to request it as part of your install is to go through a local dealer that has them. I don't know who has them, though.

Is DishNet's single-wire situation relatively new? The DVRs I see on their website have 2 satellite inputs.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> Is DishNet's single-wire situation relatively new? The DVRs I see on their website have 2 satellite inputs.


DISH calls it DISHProPlus or DPP and DISH has been doing a single wire two a two tuner receiver for at least three or four years. There is a limit of one receiver per coax off of the switch or DPP LNB, but each receiver can be a single or dual tuner receiver.

A special "separator" is used at the back of the receiver to split the coax to the two inputs.


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## TheChef (Oct 2, 2008)

Kheldar said:


> The SWM (Single-Wire Multiswitch) cannot be requested, and is only available in certain areas.
> 
> However, you can find it at stores like SolidSignal.com for more info.
> 
> ...


If you are really curious on the single wiring solutions or why they work, check out the info on bandstacking / translating.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

TheChef said:


> If you are really curious on the single wiring solutions or why they work, check out the info on bandstacking / translating.


Or check out the D* part of DBS Talk.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

My Better Business Bureau complaint about the Fisher-Dish situation to Dish Network was routed to a person who has no knowledge of anything. She claimed that it was her job to process all of the Better Business Bureau and Attorney General complaints. It seems that the senior staff tells her nothing about "negotiations" and none of the complaint details are referred to anyone in the senior levels who has any power to do anything. Essentially the complaint dies in her office with no actions taken. Yet that is the response. Is this why Dish Network is not highly rated at the Better Business Bureau? Because they assign complaints to people who are powerless and have no knowledge of the situation?


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm a simple man, never been sued by anyone for millions of dollars. How long does it take to settle such a hugh amount? I've hoping to catch the 2nd half season of Lost in HD this year and not on my lousy tube TV which I'm stealing the signal off cable.


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## rgrgrg (Nov 9, 2008)

looks like we won't be watching the oscars this weekend on ABC. Any one know for sure if fisher and dish are even talking?


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

I doubt it...I'm fully convinced that we'll never see ABC on Dish Network in Portland ever again.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm actually getting used to watching Lost on the tube now, took a few shows to get used to it and now dont give a [email protected] if ABC ever comes back to Dish. Hope these two morons known as CEOs lose lots of money and veiwers in this.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Colleen Brown is the CEO for Fisher. While it takes two to tango, she gets the lion's share of the blame on this one. Why not cut a deal for service going forward and then litigate past actions if you want. 

John


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

In this case I believe there will be no deal as long as there is litigation.


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## OinkinOregon (Feb 19, 2006)

Is there a DEAL??


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## OinkinOregon (Feb 19, 2006)

Still showing Charlie Chat from last year.. FALSE ALARM!!


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## Mogrub (Feb 9, 2009)

James Long said:


> DISH calls it DISHProPlus or DPP and DISH has been doing a single wire two a two tuner receiver for at least three or four years. There is a limit of one receiver per coax off of the switch or DPP LNB, but each receiver can be a single or dual tuner receiver.
> 
> A special "separator" is used at the back of the receiver to split the coax to the two inputs.


I'm thinking about converting to Dish from DTV, and one of the draws is the Dish ability to support two tuners from a single coax line. (Talked to DTV about doing a SWM install and they said fugghedaboutit.)

One question -- does the use of a special separator as described above diminish the signal strength or signal quality in any way? We've got a new Panny plasma and want to make sure that I feed it the best signal I can.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

Well at least I got the programming guide back for ABC. It was gone since I got dish. This will allow me to use OTA to record the few shows on ABC I care about.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Mogrub said:


> One question -- does the use of a special separator as described above diminish the signal strength or signal quality in any way? We've got a new Panny plasma and want to make sure that I feed it the best signal I can.


Not that I have seen. Anyone with a duo-TV HD want to chime in?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Mogrub said:


> One question -- does the use of a special separator as described above diminish the signal strength or signal quality in any way? We've got a new Panny plasma and want to make sure that I feed it the best signal I can.


As the signal is generated at the LNB, there's little loss and certainly nothing to worry about if you have less than the maximum cable run. There is insertion loss from the separator, but it is no more than a conventional splitter.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

KATU has posted an update on negotiations with Dish, effectively taking aim squarely at Charlie Ergen.

http://www.katu.com/about/36310734.html


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

WebTraveler said:


> KATU has posted an update on negotiations with Dish, effectively taking aim squarely at Charlie Ergen.
> 
> http://www.katu.com/about/36310734.html


_"Because the timing for any renewed carriage of our television stations by DISH is uncertain and indefinite, we encourage you to switch to an alternative provider so that you will be able to receive the programming, including our local news, weather, and sports that you have been missing as a result of DISH's ever-changing negotiating posture."
_

_"In the meantime, you should know that Fisher has reached new agreements with dozens of other video programming distributors, including Comcast, Charter, Cable One, and Mediacom, and has existing arrangements in place with DIRECTV, Bright House, Verizon FiOS, and AT&T U verse."_

Playing hardball. Notice no mention of just using an antenna to get the signal.


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

So tell me, does Dish provide the EPG for the fisher stations but not the signal? KIDK in my area is easily available with an antenna. Paying for locals but missing one and it's EPG would really be major negatives for anyone considering dish...


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

IDRick said:


> So tell me, does Dish provide the EPG for the fisher stations but not the signal? KIDK in my area is easily available with an antenna. Paying for locals but missing one and it's EPG would really be major negatives for anyone considering dish...


Yes and No. Right now they are preempting the title and description of the shows, at least within about 24 - 48 hours with an "Important News - Press Info" banner about the channel being gone.

However, the underlying guide data, i.e. the show/series ID, episode ID, original air date are all still there. This is what is used by the timers so as long as you have a timer setup you will get your show. However, when you look at your DVR list all shows recorded look like "Important News - Press Info". You can to look at their recorded date and time to figure out what show it is, or just start playing them.

Every once in a while, this past Wednesday being one of them, they forget to preempt the guide titles and descriptions and you actually end up with shows with accurate guide info.


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

Thanks for your reply! Appears to be a deal breaker for us as my wife watches alot of CBS programming... Maybe it'll be over by mid summer. Hope so or my decision becomes very easy for D*


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

If you are in Boise it is very easy to get a digital CBS signal now with an antenna. Channel 2 was the weakest signal of the all networks but they have increased their power significantly in the last few months.


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

BaldEagle said:


> If you are in Boise it is very easy to get a digital CBS signal now with an antenna. Channel 2 was the weakest signal of the all networks but they have increased their power significantly in the last few months.


I'm over in Idaho Falls. KIDK comes in very well OTA. The wife would not like changing from a full EPG with cable to none for her favorite stations. Don't think I could sell that. I'm hoping it's all over by mid-summer. In my book, E* is competitive on my issues.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Has anybody effected by the Fisher and Dish fight, signed up for the SlingGuide? I was wondering if the SlingGuide would give you the EPG? 
Just something to try.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SlingGuide doesn't currently handle OTA scheduling.

The guide for the LIL channels would be correct if the channels were being carried.


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## jimborst (Jun 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> SlingGuide doesn't currently handle OTA scheduling.


When I go to the grid I get the OTA channels that I have, and I do believe I have set up a timer for one with SlingGuide.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I was mistaken; you _can_ schedule OTA. The OTA version isn't set off all that well in the grid (not that it is in the DISH grid).


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Now we just need somebody that has OTA, and effected by the Fisher vs Dish battle, to signup or at least try the SlingGuide.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> Now we just need somebody that has OTA, and effected by the Fisher vs Dish battle, to signup or at least try the SlingGuide.


I am such a somebody.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

harsh said:


> I am such a somebody.


ok, can you see your OTA channels in your guide?


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

Man I wish I could even get KATU OTA where I live, I am really screwed.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> ok, can you see your OTA channels in your guide?


Have you been following this thread at all?


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## bjgould (Jan 29, 2009)

GrumpyBear said:


> ok, can you see your OTA channels in your guide?


I see some OTA stations, but not the ones that are just duplicates of Dish stations.

Any ideas?


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

According to the Fisher Communications, Inc. Q4 2008 Earnings Call Transcript, Dish is about 8% of Fisher's "distribution", but they don't clarify whether that is across all markets, across just markets they have a conflict with Dish in, or solely in (for example) Seattle. Fisher further claims there has been no "_material impact in our ratings_"

Interesting to note is that they claim a 1.2% increase in year-to-year revenue from television stations when internet is excluded (i.e. TV only); even if we take the less pessimistic view of the 8% number (i.e. it's only in Seattle), that means that station should be expected to, this year, take a reduction already. 2009 has a huge hurdle against it.

Note also that Fisher expects "_total retrans of revenue of nearly $30 million over the next three years_"... which seems aggressive considering last quarter retrans revenues were only $864,000., or $2.6 million. That does hint at how big a hit they must have tried to extort from Dish.

Oh yeah, and they're losing money. In Q4, they lost $48 million. The Dish embargo can't have been much of that; it only hit two weeks. Ironically, the Seattle television station was their brightest spot in Q4.

How long will they continue their quixotic battle with Charlie?


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## tigerwillow1 (Jan 26, 2009)

My feeble mind doesn't understand a local station getting paid by a sat or cable company. I thought the value of their ad time was based on how many people are watching the station. Every viewer they add via cable or sat should be increasing their advertising revenue. They're shooting themselves cutting Dish off. Looks like simple greed to me, and I applaud Dish for standing firm.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I think it is a case of simple greed. I wish their advertisers would put some pressure on Fisher to negotiate a new deal by punishing them in the pocketbook until they come to their senses. 

John


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

tigerwillow1 said:


> My feeble mind doesn't understand a local station getting paid by a sat or cable company. I thought the value of their ad time was based on how many people are watching the station. Every viewer they add via cable or sat should be increasing their advertising revenue. They're shooting themselves cutting Dish off. Looks like simple greed to me, and I applaud Dish for standing firm.


Amen. Unfortunately, that's what the worlds come to. It's too bad the FCC doesn't demand that all providers be able to carry the local channels for free.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ajc68 said:


> It's too bad the FCC doesn't demand that all providers be able to carry the local channels for free.


It would be decidedly more effective if the advertisers demanded it.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

ajc68 said:


> It's too bad the FCC doesn't demand that all providers be able to carry the local channels for free.





harsh said:


> It would be decidedly more effective if the advertisers demanded it.


And even if the FCC demanded it, that still couldn't happen, as by law there must be a carriage contract. That would be Congress and the President that would need to move forth on the issue.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

TechnoCat said:


> According to the Fisher Communications, Inc. Q4 2008 Earnings Call Transcript, Dish is about 8% of Fisher's "distribution", but they don't clarify whether that is across all markets, across just markets they have a conflict with Dish in, or solely in (for example) Seattle. Fisher further claims there has been no "_material impact in our ratings_"
> 
> Interesting to note is that they claim a 1.2% increase in year-to-year revenue from television stations when internet is excluded (i.e. TV only); even if we take the less pessimistic view of the 8% number (i.e. it's only in Seattle), that means that station should be expected to, this year, take a reduction already. 2009 has a huge hurdle against it.
> 
> ...


But isn't this the first year that cable is being forced to pay retransmission fees? Add that to the mix as well to ensure its apples vs. apples. The $8M or so difference you speak of of last year to this year needs to be put in perspective. Talk to Fisher and they state they have agreed to Dish's compensation, but the hold up is the lawsuit on other stations where they claim Dish has underpaid them. Dish Network won't address the point directly, so we don't know.....but I will say this, the rates for Directv vs. Dish are not really different, so if Dish has a substantial savings where is it at? Charlie talks big, but his rates are the same as Direct for my package when you consider Direct charges 1 DVR fee, versus the 2 I paid with Dish. Dish receivers are now $10 or $12 each after the first and Direct is $5 and $5 after the first when you compare DVR Advantage w/HD & 250 to Choice Xtra HD DVR head to head. No savings there....


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

WebTraveler said:


> but I will say this, the rates for Directv vs. Dish are not really different, so if Dish has a substantial savings where is it at? Charlie talks big, but his rates are the same as Direct for my package when you consider Direct charges 1 DVR fee, versus the 2 I paid with Dish. Dish receivers are now $10 or $12 each after the first and Direct is $5 and $5 after the first when you compare DVR Advantage w/HD & 250 to Choice Extra HD DVR head to head. No savings there....


If you have only one or two TV's it is a bit less.... But me I got 8 and 7 - 722's My bill difference compared to what I had at direct is, Dish is around 40% more expensive. The big difference is not the package it all the trivial fees. The fees are almost as much as the package.

And then there is the signal fade issues everytime it rains. It has gotten a bit better with the new bird up in the 129 slot, but it is not as good as my Directv signal. Now I do have to admit the HD PQ with Dish is better if I don't have signal fade.

It's hell to have a big family and everyone wants there own HD DVR. As soon as Direct gets there new Tivo going I'll have to compare again.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

WebTraveler said:


> the rates for Directv vs. Dish are not really different, so if Dish has a substantial savings where is it at? Charlie talks big, but his rates are the same as Direct for my package when you consider Direct charges 1 DVR fee, versus the 2 I paid with Dish. Dish receivers are now $10 or $12 each after the first and Direct is $5 and $5 after the first when you compare DVR Advantage w/HD & 250 to Choice Xtra HD DVR head to head. No savings there....


For my package, with dish it's $40/month and with direct it's $75/month. That's just to get the channels I want. It's a pretty big difference.


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

geoep rpoebslm are sovled soon


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

tigerwillow1 said:



> My feeble mind doesn't understand a local station getting paid by a sat or cable company. I thought the value of their ad time was based on how many people are watching the station. Every viewer they add via cable or sat should be increasing their advertising revenue. They're shooting themselves cutting Dish off. Looks like simple greed to me, and I applaud Dish for standing firm.


Dish should be proud! I'm not a fan of local stations because their news is dumb, I.E. stories of cats riding horses.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

grcooperjr said:


> If you have only one or two TV's it is a bit less....


You are probably right for 1 or 2 TVs and there is a smaller package available, which may be enough for many....


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## WynsWrld98 (Aug 17, 2006)

The thing that annoys the hell out of me is DISH Network removes the program title/description for KOMO even on the OTA channel 4-01 as it approaches the day of the program (e.g., programming info shows up fine say a week before then as you get in the 3-4 day before event timeframe they remove all of the programming info even on the OTA channel and put the generic dispute stuff). I see no reason they could not leave the program name/description in for the OTA channel. I e-mailed them about this twice (to CEO of DISH Network) and never received any response. What a bunch of total idiots! They say on their Charlie Chat to use a roof antenna for KOMO then they screw you over with no programming info (and a bunch of stuff on your DVR hard drive that all has that generic dispute program name/description)!!


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

grcooperjr said:


> And then there is the signal fade issues everytime it rains. It has gotten a bit better with the new bird up in the 129 slot, but it is not as good as my Directv signal. Now I do have to admit the HD PQ with Dish is better if I don't have signal fade.


I solved the rain fade completely by installing a much larger dish just for 129. Works wonders. Just spend the $100 once and the problem will go away.

On cost, it's also in the terrible selection of packages. I had AT200 (?) plus locals plus HBO/MAX plus HD, plus DVR and maintanence (which has paid for itself.) That came to well into three digits, but last week by effectively giving up what I considered to be 3 channels - Cinemax (large HBO overlap), WGN (love their 80s reruns) and Fox News - I chopped about $50 off it.

The trouble is that Fox News is only on the big packages (AT200+ I think) and WGN is the only channel I'd care about on the next Turbo tier. I'm taking a good look at DirecTV for those reasons. But the whole Fisher thing just doesn't bother me. I watch CW more than I watch ABC. The only reason I follow it is because it's a soap opera.


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

I did the dish upgrade for 129 to a 30 incher. and for the most it worked. 119 has the problem to but not near as bad as 129 was. What I have found that works for all 3 is to use a 1000.2 lnbf on a chanelmaster Gain master dish.

But you know, I didn't have the issue on Directv equipment. Very rarely had rain fade. Only in the worst storms and then it was very short lived. I was with Directv for a long time and the only reason I switched was because direct want to charge me $400 per hr10-250 to convert to the new stuff. Multiply that by 7, thats a bit tough to swallow being I paid $800 plus for each unit to begin with and 12 years of subscription.

Anyway, my opinion is the Charley is trying to be cheap, cutting corners and under powering his equipment to save a buck and maximize his profits. maybe I'm wrong, but no one else has the issues the Charley has. I also think the Charley draconian tactics are allot lot of the issue and has allot of the vendors pived. A good example the the Tivo/Dish fiasco. But times are a changing and I think the Charley will be losing a lot of customer base in the next year or two. We see what happens.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

grcooperjr said:


> But you know, I didn't have the issue on Directv equipment. Very rarely had rain fade. Only in the worst storms and then it was very short lived.


Fast forward to 2006 when DIRECTV is installing their relatively large Ku/Ka dish and rain fade is a factor on HD channels.

That being said, I haven't taken down my big wing dish yet because I like what I get on the DISH 500 better than my old school DISH 1000. I could probably live with a 1000.2.


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## solmakou (Mar 6, 2009)

TechnoCat said:


> I solved the rain fade completely by installing a much larger dish just for 129. Works wonders. Just spend the $100 once and the problem will go away.
> 
> On cost, it's also in the terrible selection of packages. I had AT200 (?) plus locals plus HBO/MAX plus HD, plus DVR and maintanence (which has paid for itself.) That came to well into three digits, but last week by effectively giving up what I considered to be 3 channels - Cinemax (large HBO overlap), WGN (love their 80s reruns) and Fox News - I chopped about $50 off it.
> 
> The trouble is that Fox News is only on the big packages (AT200+ I think) and WGN is the only channel I'd care about on the next Turbo tier. I'm taking a good look at DirecTV for those reasons. But the whole Fisher thing just doesn't bother me. I watch CW more than I watch ABC. The only reason I follow it is because it's a soap opera.


fox news has been on the classic bronze 100 since march the 5th. WGN is available out of denver, NY, or LA if i'm not mistaken for 1.50 if it's the one that changed it's name to the cw


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Denver.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Very different from WGN Superstation out of Chicago.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

KWGN - is the CW station out of Denver.
WGN - is a local station out of Chicago.
WGN (the superstation) is essentially a cable channel that was setup to provide non-duplicated syndicated programming. 

WTBS Superstation from Atlanta is the same way - one is the local Atlanta station, the other is a cable safe channels.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

solmakou said:


> fox news has been on the classic bronze 100 since march the 5th.


Yeah, I had it (Fox News), at Silver/200 level, until Friday, when I switched to the Turbo packages. FoxNews HD isn't available on Turbo, and Turbo is a lot less expensive than Classic for the HD.


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

harsh said:


> Fast forward to 2006 when DIRECTV is installing their relatively large Ku/Ka dish and rain fade is a factor on HD channels.
> 
> That being said, I haven't taken down my big wing dish yet because I like what I get on the DISH 500 better than my old school DISH 1000. I could probably live with a 1000.2.


I never made it to the mpeg 4 stuff on DirecTV because on what they want to charge to upgrade me to Mpeg 4 equipment. So I went to Dish at that point. They were extremely accommodating but a bit clueless on the actual charges were going to be monthly. I still have a few friends that do have the new dish that DirecTV is currently installing and HD equipment. Other than missing there TiVo's They have been happy. They are saying that as soon as they release the new Tivo units they are converting cause they hate the Direct software so much.

In hind site, I should have just hung out for another 6 months and DirecTV started replacing the Hr10's at no or very little cost as their Tivo customers left for Cable or Dish. Oh well, We'll see what the new Tivo brings to their business. Maybe I'll jump back.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

coldsteel said:


> Very different from WGN Superstation out of Chicago.


WGN is HD,thanks Charlie. KWGN is HD also, but not to superstation subscribers. Very different CHARLIE!!! Oh, and WPIX and KTLA.


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