# Captions not working properly



## Citation4444 (Nov 13, 2005)

I have a 622 ("C" version with 3.56 firmware) and the captions don't work properly. I am 65 and somewhat hard of hearing, and rely on captions to aid my understanding of dialogue.

I just got the 622 about a week ago, and have been recording HD programs. Most of them are CBS shows like CSI's, Cold Case, but some Fox shows too (House, etc.). On none of my recorded HD shows do the captions work properly. Most of the time I get no captions at all, but when I do they are haphazard - coming in about every 3rd of 4th sentence. I have tried various settings in the captions menu, and have tried all the captions services 1-6, and get no joy.

This might have something to do with the shows being in HD with multichannel sound, as on the live shows in SD the captions seem to work ok. I have not recorded any SD shows, so don't know if they would traverse the recording process. I am only interested in the HD shows anyway.

I've tried searching this forum, but don't find anything helpful to my situation. Can anybody help me?


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## Citation4444 (Nov 13, 2005)

Well, since nobody answered my question, I'll pose it another way.

Does anybody have captions working properly on the 622 with recorded HD material, especially from HD locals? I guess I'm going to have to call Dish to complain about this.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

I too have had trouble with CC. Sometimes they work and other times not.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Citation4444 said:


> Well, since nobody answered my question, I'll pose it another way.
> 
> Does anybody have captions working properly on the 622 with recorded HD material, especially from HD locals? I guess I'm going to have to call Dish to complain about this.


If CC is present in the signal mine work well. I have noticed that some programs are lacking CC content. I have discovered there is a lot of HD programming via OTA and VOOM channels that have no CC.


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## Citation4444 (Nov 13, 2005)

boylehome said:


> If CC is present in the signal mine work well. I have noticed that some programs are lacking CC content. I have discovered there is a lot of HD programming via OTA and VOOM channels that have no CC.


Yes, that's true, but I'm talking about prime time network programming, like House, CSI, Without a Trace, Criminal Intent, etc. I can't get any of them to work properly on playback of recorded material. If they work at all, it's sporadic; skipping lines of dialog, coming in early, then late. At my other home, I have Comcast cable and the captions work properly on all channels. The timing wrt the programming is not too good for me on Fox, but pretty good on CBS and NBC. I think Dish is screwed up on captions.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Citation4444 said:


> Yes, that's true, but I'm talking about prime time network programming, like House, CSI, Without a Trace, Criminal Intent, etc. I can't get any of them to work properly on playback of recorded material. If they work at all, it's sporadic; skipping lines of dialog, coming in early, then late. At my other home, I have Comcast cable and the captions work properly on all channels. The timing wrt the programming is not too good for me on Fox, but pretty good on CBS and NBC. I think Dish is screwed up on captions.
> 
> 
> Citation4444 said:
> ...


Please note that I include what your talking about,


boylehome said:


> via OTA


 You are right and I think that this is widespread and not limited to the 622. I see what you describe on my 921's . Let me ask, does CC work properly when watching them via the 622 in HD "Live?" If you see CC properly during the live programming on your 622 but then play it back later with via 622 and CC works improperly, then maybe there is something wrong with CC and the 622. Otherwise, the senders are not providing acceptable CC.


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## ericmatz (Jan 15, 2006)

This is related to Citation4444 "complaint." I have a DVR 921 with HD programming. ALL of the channels, including HD, with closed captioned works, EXCEPT for CBS in high def. Believe it or not, the HDNET had some shows with closed captioned and it was perfect. That was something new for HDNET. The problem with closed captioned for CBS HD started sometime after New Year. I called Support like 50 times. They said "...will submit a request for action to Engineering." Last night, I tried to watch Cold Case on CBS HD but the closed captioned was not working right so I switched to CBS Standdard Def. Please have Dish to fix the CBS HD closed captioned issue - it's been too long since the New Year. Anybody that has the "authority" ask Dish to get it fixed soon. Thank you. what am I supposed to do? I called Dish Support like 50 times. Do they hear? Are they listening? Do they care? Who can I call to file a complaint against Dish if they are not taking any action to fix the closed captioned issue on CBS in HD?


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

ericmatz said:


> Who can I call to file a complaint against Dish if they are not taking any action to fix the closed captioned issue on CBS in HD?


ericmatz, see this site: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/closedcaption.html. You will need to follow the FCC guidelines in filing a complaint.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Citation4444 said:


> I have a 622 ("C" version with 3.56 firmware) and the captions don't work properly. I am 65 and somewhat hard of hearing, and rely on captions to aid my understanding of dialogue.
> 
> I just got the 622 about a week ago, and have been recording HD programs. Most of them are CBS shows like CSI's, Cold Case, but some Fox shows too (House, etc.). On none of my recorded HD shows do the captions work properly. Most of the time I get no captions at all, but when I do they are haphazard - coming in about every 3rd of 4th sentence. I have tried various settings in the captions menu, and have tried all the captions services 1-6, and get no joy.
> 
> ...


I must say this thread has me bummed out. I have been holding out on the 622 upgrade because my 921 is actually working pretty good, and I don't want to go through the same growing pains with the 622 as I did with the 921. From all indications so far the 622 looks to be relatively stable. At this point I was just waiting for the TV prime time season to end so I can catch up on all of my recorded shows and then make the switch. From my past experience with the 921/CC issue, this most likely is a software problem and it will be like pulling teeth to get Dish to correct it. With my 921 it took them a year from the time I initially complained about the CC issue before they even acknowledged the problem was on their end, and 6 months after that to actually correct it. This was only because Mark Lamutt intervened on my behalf. IMHO from past experiences, if the captioning is displayed incorrectly or jumbled, this is a Dish SW problem. If no captioning is appearing at all on the network prime time programming this is a Dish SW problem as the networks are required to have CC. This includes Dish locals (SD & HD) and OTA HD. As far as non-network programming, 95% has captioning and it should work properly. As you know live shows are not in sync for obvious reasons. I to need CC due to my hearing problem, and I will continue to monitor the 622 for CC fixes before I make the switch. It may be helpful to solicit one of the administrators or beta testers for help via PM. I know it worked for me as they had direct Dish connections which allowed them to jump right over the layer of CSR incompetence when it comes to issues like this.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

There was another CC thread a while back (well, not really, it was just about 2 weeks ago). I will reiterate again, so maybe lurkers from Dish programming might notice...

CC on HD shows are sporadic at best. Same (and I mean THE SAME) HD shows, while viewed as SD (from TV2, or the SD outputs of TV1, will have spot on CC. This leads me to believe that the CC on the HD signals are the ones in need of adjustment.

Another comment on CC: I watch some FX shows like the shield and thief. CC on these shows are about two sentences behind when I am watching on the "hd" output.


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## Citation4444 (Nov 13, 2005)

boylehome said:


> Let me ask, does CC work properly when watching them via the 622 in HD "Live?"


Tonight, CC didn't work on any channel, SD or HD, recorded or live. Dish is totally screwed up with CC's.


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## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

Citation4444 said:


> Tonight, CC didn't work on any channel, SD or HD, recorded or live. Dish is totally screwed up with CC's.


That's happened to me a couple of times, a reboot should fix it.


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## Citation4444 (Nov 13, 2005)

GravelChan said:


> That's happened to me a couple of times, a reboot should fix it.


OK, did the reboot. It restored it to the way it has been working all along; that is, it seems to work perfectly on SD programs but sporadic at best on HD programs, whether live or recorded. :nono2:

I hope this can be fixed with a software change, but from what others are saying I'll have to make a lot of noise to get this complaint heard and fixed.


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## ericmatz (Jan 15, 2006)

To Citation4444 - I plan on contacting Dish Support for the 51st time and tell them that the closed captioned on CBS in HD still does not work correctly. If they give me an answer that I don't like, then I'll do what boylehome recommends - contact FCC. If the closed captioned issue is the same on Vip 622 and DVR 921, then we know it's Dish. I'm not sure about other receivers like 942. The closed captioned for standard definition shows are good. The closed captioned on high definition shows are good (like HDNET, ESPNHD, and TNTHD) except for CBS in high def like I explained in my previous threads.


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

I had a similar problem with captions not working well on my locals. I found out the Los Angeles HD locals (63xx) are missing their captions. And because I mapped my HD to my locals, [Option 6 (Setup), Option 9 (Locals), Sat Local, HD Priority], my lower channel numbers were missing captions as well. When I changed the prioritization to SD, my captions came back on 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. Strange!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

With SD priority set, your mapped channels are now the SD versions. Looks like the LA HD locals don't have CC yet.


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

The LA HD OTA do have captions, but for some reason they do not appear on the E* mapped HD locals. Either the signal is being sent to E* w/o the locals, or E* is messing up the signals such that the captions are lost.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I was meaning the Dish LA HD locals. I am confused by your post bhodgins. 

My LA OTAs, (HD Priority selected) map to 00X-01 (i.e. ABC shows 007-01) and I am pretty sure I get CC on them.

The ones I don't see CC is the Dish HD Locals and they show up on 00x-00 (i.e. ABC is 007-00).


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> I was meaning the Dish LA HD locals. I am confused by your post bhodgins.
> 
> My LA OTAs, (HD Priority selected) map to 00X-01 (i.e. ABC shows 007-01) and I am pretty sure I get CC on them.
> 
> The ones I don't see CC is the Dish HD Locals and they show up on 00x-00 (i.e. ABC is 007-00).


My understanding is that selecting the HD Priority channels means that the Dish channels in HIGH DEF are mapped down to the lower channel numbers. So when you look at 2, 4, 7 and 11, you are really watching the 63xx channels, not your over the air HD channels.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok.. we are talking about the same thing then. Was not sure with your orginal post, but after re-reading now I know what you were saying. Same thing as me.


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## swlauren (Apr 2, 2004)

Citation4444 said:


> I have a 622 ("C" version with 3.56 firmware) and the captions don't work properly. I am 65 and somewhat hard of hearing, and rely on captions to aid my understanding of dialogue.
> 
> I just got the 622 about a week ago, and have been recording HD programs. Most of them are CBS shows like CSI's, Cold Case, but some Fox shows too (House, etc.). On none of my recorded HD shows do the captions work properly. Most of the time I get no captions at all, but when I do they are haphazard - coming in about every 3rd of 4th sentence. I have tried various settings in the captions menu, and have tried all the captions services 1-6, and get no joy.
> 
> ...


I think i saw somewhere that you can't get closed caption in 1080i. Try changing to 720p and see what happens


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## swlauren (Apr 2, 2004)

Citation4444 said:


> Well, since nobody answered my question, I'll pose it another way.
> 
> Does anybody have captions working properly on the 622 with recorded HD material, especially from HD locals? I guess I'm going to have to call Dish to complain about this.


I read somewhere that you can't get CC in 1080i. Try changing output from 1080i to 720p.
swlauren


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## ericmatz (Jan 15, 2006)

My receiver is set to 1080i.

No problems with closed caption on HDNET, TNTHD, ESPNHD.

Problems with closed caption on CBS HD from East. There are missing letters, words, characters, etc. It doesn't matter if it is a recorded or non-recorded shows.

So if closed caption works on HDNET, TNTHD, ESPNHD but not CBS HD from East, then this tells me that the feed from Dish is somehow corrupted for CBS HD from East.


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## jesserose17 (May 2, 2006)

I also have same problem - no captions on local high definition programming. I've called Dish support and didn't get anywhere. They're blaming it on my set-up of my ViP622 receiver and HDTV. I'm relieved to discover that I'm not alone.

I've enabled the digital captions on my receiver for TV1 output. The digital captions appear fine on digitial standard definition programs, including Los Angeles broadcast network such as ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.

It's just that on local broadcast network High Definition programming do not have any captions at all. For comparsion sake, let's pick ABC World News which has been closed captioned consistenly since 1980. 

TV2 - analog caption displayed
TV1 SD - digital caption displayed
TV1 HD - no captions for local HD broadcast network programming

I've had ViP622 activated since March 9, 2006 and none, zip, nada of local HD programming have captions displayed. That goes for ALL of ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX HD programs. I have HBO and Showtime HD - no problems with digital captions being displayed on their High Definition movies.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s jesse 

I assume you are talking aboutHD locas you are talking about Dish HD locals. So that the folks at Dish know and also others know it is always good to spell out what HD locals you are talking about since know there can be two sources.


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## jesserose17 (May 2, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> :welcome_s jesse
> 
> I assume you are talking aboutHD locas you are talking about Dish HD locals. So that the folks at Dish know and also others know it is always good to spell out what HD locals you are talking about since know there can be two sources.


Yes, I'm talking about Dish HD locals. I'm 150 miles away from Los Angeles, so the Dish satellite is the only source for the broadcast networks.


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

my experience is the same as jesserose17 -- captions are fine on SD and over the air HD but not on the Dish local HD or CBS East HD


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

Yes, I too have problems with CC on my 622. Let's assume for the purposes of this discussion, that the channel in question is broadcasting CC. I see four different states on my 622. These are true for both SD and HD channels:

1. Captions working fine (usually)
2. Captions display ok, but are late or early in relation to audio (usually late)
3. Captions present but garbled beyond readability (reboot fixes this)
4. Captions absent - cannot turn them on (reboot fixes this)

Bottom line: there is a software problem with captions on the 622.

.....G


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