# ABC & NBC in the SF Bay Area Issues Fixed?



## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

I got an email from Dish today asking me to check the audio issues on ABC HD and the Acid Trip picture quality of NBC HD. They said they think they have fixed it. 

I checked and can report while ABC HD (KGO) audio is now spot on and working beautifully, NBC HD (KNTV) is still looking like a bad acid trip. Horrible trails (like the bullets flying in the matrix)


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

ABC seems better for me too although I didn't watch that long. 
Noticed last night that the same 'acid trip' is now occuring on Channel 5 KPIX even with a SD program, 48 hours Mystery.

I saw some complaints on a Comcast forum about the 'acid trip' problem on ch11. I sure hope they fix this soon. Very, very annoying.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Grandude said:


> ABC seems better for me too although I didn't watch that long.
> Noticed last night that the same 'acid trip' is now occuring on Channel 5 KPIX even with a SD program, 48 hours Mystery.
> 
> I saw some complaints on a Comcast forum about the 'acid trip' problem on ch11. I sure hope they fix this soon. Very, very annoying.


I hope they do to. KGO looks fine today, KNTV still looks very bad, so they didn't fix anything there.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

ABC (KGO) lip sync is most definitely *not* fixed.

NBC (KNTV) still looks bad.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

That lip-sync issue with KGO seems to come and go and I'm not sure if it isn't a problem with KGO itself. They definitely have an image blurring problem, the NBA game last night was incredibly bad, and I was watching it on Comcast.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

Going on 3 days now and my KGO HD is still flawless. KNTV still sucks (_i_)


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

do you have your 622 set to sync audio to the SD or HD stream (it's a setup menu option)


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Mine is set to HD.


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## gsalem (Feb 4, 2004)

I assume you are talking about the HD satellite version and not OTA...

KGO on satellite is still having lip-sync issues. I can compare to the
OTA, and the OTA is perfect. 

KNTV is practially unwatchable in HD (satellite).


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## surfinguru (Jun 16, 2006)

Well, this is most disappointing. I live in Santa Cruz and I'll be switching to Dish HD in about a month or so. This is a bummer to hear about regarding locals. Hopefully they get things resolved sooner than later.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

With L359 KGO is fine Kntv is like being on an acid trip without the acid cool man


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

I received an email from a dish engineer this morning who said the KNTV issues should be fixed before July 8th. ( I told him I was going on vacation until then as he wanted to send out someone other than a dish installer to check why my 129 signal strength is so low ). He replied and said he would call me on the 10th to send someone out and that the KNTV issues would be fixed before my return. 

<---- Crossing fingers.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

I hope so, KNTV is pretty poor.


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## gsalem (Feb 4, 2004)

Wrecker06 said:


> I received an email from a dish engineer this morning who said the KNTV issues should be fixed before July 8th. ( I told him I was going on vacation until then as he wanted to send out someone other than a dish installer to check why my 129 signal strength is so low ). He replied and said he would call me on the 10th to send someone out and that the KNTV issues would be fixed before my return.
> 
> <---- Crossing fingers.


UMMM. KNTV isn't on 129. So you may have an issue with 129, but that
wouldn't effect KNTV.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

gsalem said:


> UMMM. KNTV isn't on 129. So you may have an issue with 129, but that
> wouldn't effect KNTV.


UMMM I know they're not, but I'm also having issues with the voom channels dropping out.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

HMM KGO now looks like a Japanases movie with english dubbed in


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## davidxlai (Jan 21, 2006)

I have not had any issues with KGO (ABC) or KPIX (CBS). Indeed KNTV is not watchable. I also have KCBS-HD (channel 9484) from Los Angeles which looks much better than KPIX.

Interestingly, they mapped 9484 to KPIX soon after the Bay Area local HDs were made avilable on my 211 receiver. But my 622 channel 9484 is still mapped to KCBS in LA. I am not complaining.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I still have very bad lip-singing on ABC and not only that, but During the Worldcup games the pixalation happened 4 times during the 2 hours game and it lasted about 2 to 3 seconds, where I would get perfect sound but the pictures was un-viewable. The screen was broken into small blocks, scared all over the screen.

Has anyone else experienced this..?


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

I haven't been watching too much local on Dish as I still have Comcast but I'm pretty sure the audio sync is a problem with KGO and maybe not so much with Dish.

I did notice KNTV still looks horrendous though with the smearing, acid-trip looking images. I don't know how SLN could look as good as it did and then the tennis look as bad as it did, all within 4 days. I'm convinced it has something to do with the type of material, film vs video, HD vs SD, something along those lines.

I really hope Dish gets this stuff squared away before the fall season starts as I really, really want to dump Comcast.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

socceteer said:


> I still have very bad lip-singing on ABC and not only that, but During the Worldcup games the pixalation happened 4 times during the 2 hours game and it lasted about 2 to 3 seconds, where I would get perfect sound but the pictures was un-viewable. The screen was broken into small blocks, scared all over the screen.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this..?


Exactly the same experience for me


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## Soccernut (Jan 20, 2004)

Picture looks soft on all HD locals as compare with say ESPNHD, KNTV is unwatchable. Lip - sync issue on KGO. Some minor issues with picture break up on WC games.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

So ... now the question is ..! 

Do we call Dish and complain or do we call KGO...?


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

You can try contacting them, but the last two times I tried they were non-responsive.

KGO-TV/DT contact info:
Telephone: 415-954-7777 - ask for "TV Engineering"
Email: [email protected] - Director of Engineering
[email protected] - Chief Engineer
[email protected]


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## davidxlai (Jan 21, 2006)

Send mail to Echostar, you will get a response:

[email protected]


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

Yeah, a canned response that say they know about it and it will be fix shortly....This is what I was told about 4 weeks ago....and still no fix.


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## gsalem (Feb 4, 2004)

Paradox-sj said:


> Yeah, a canned response that say they know about it and it will be fix shortly....This is what I was told about 4 weeks ago....and still no fix.


I got a different response:

*** Thank you for your information. We are currently looking into this issue. As you are aware HD technology is relatively new and therefore new challenges must be overcome. We thank you for your patience, your help, and your understanding. We appreciate your assistance in this effort! You are truly a valued customer. ***


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

gsalem said:


> I got a different response:
> 
> *** Thank you for your information. We are currently looking into this issue. As you are aware HD technology is relatively new and therefore new challenges must be overcome. We thank you for your patience, your help, and your understanding. We appreciate your assistance in this effort! You are truly a valued customer. ***


that the same thing I got... and it sounds like they are trying to make excuses to me and is likely that there is no reasonable time frame for a fix.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

gsalem said:


> I got a different response:
> 
> *** Thank you for your information. We are currently looking into this issue. As you are aware HD technology is relatively new and therefore new challenges must be overcome. We thank you for your patience, your help, and your understanding. We appreciate your assistance in this effort! You are truly a valued customer. ***


Funny that they say this is new technology but ABC seams be the only one that has that problem....how did they resolve it for all the other HD stations


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Funny it is on my CBS station and my Abc and Fox stations look great.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I was so exited to watch the Worldup final in HD, unfortunately it was on ABC. 

The Lip-singing was horrible during halftime. Also It pixolated very badly 4 times, to the point that you would hear the commentary, but no picture for about 3 to 4 seconds.

This never happened on ESPN HD or ESPN2 HD. They are sister stations, why is ABC so bad....?


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## icelite (Dec 6, 2005)

I have the same ghost like images when there is any movement when watching NBCHD...the other HD channels are not as bad. I wrote to Dish Quality and got the same canned response after waiting a week or so. I guess they do not really care. No clue when this is going to be fixed. Calling doesn't help either...they also tell me to reboot the system which does nothing.

Really unprofessional in my opinion, but at least the other HD channels work fine.


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## cyrexpl (Jun 17, 2006)

I just recently upgraded to a newer MPEG4 receiver and have noticed that the SF HD locals are Off-air in the mornings, what gives? Are the locals normally off-air, or are they performing some kind of maintenance in connection with the above complaints?


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

cyrexpl said:


> I just recently upgraded to a newer MPEG4 receiver and have noticed that the SF HD locals are Off-air in the mornings, what gives? Are the locals normally off-air, or are they performing some kind of maintenance in connection with the above complaints?


There has been some work being done on Sutro tower the past couple of days, since Dish/DirecTV get their local HD feeds off-air when Sutro is down you won't get any signals.


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

keenan said:


> There has been some work being done on Sutro tower the past couple of days, since Dish/DirecTV get their local HD feeds off-air when Sutro is down you won't get any signals.


Darn Jim, you busted my bubble, I was hoping that Dish got a direct feed from the stations for their local HD stuff and not through Sutro. Does Directv get their feeds from Sutro also ??

Laters,
Mikef5


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Mikef5 said:


> Darn Jim, you busted my bubble, I was hoping that Dish got a direct feed from the stations for their local HD stuff and not through Sutro. Does Directv get their feeds from Sutro also ??
> 
> Laters,
> Mikef5


They both pick them off OTA and then I believe, fiber them to Colorado for uplink. So whenever there are issues with Sutro Tower you will have issues with the Dish and DirecTV locals. How long it stays that way...who knows. Theoretically, tower problems aside, the signal should be just as good as a direct feed, it's a digital signal afterall. Realistically, you have the same problems any OTA reception setup is going to have, weather, etc. depending on where the collection antenna is located. I think DirecTV's is on top of the KTVU building but I'm not positive on that. I think Dish's is in the south bay somewhere, but I'm not positive about that either.


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

keenan said:


> They both pick them off OTA and then I believe, fiber them to Colorado for uplink. So whenever there are issues with Sutro Tower you will have issues with the Dish and DirecTV locals. How long it stays that way...who knows. Theoretically, tower problems aside, the signal should be just as good as a direct feed, it's a digital signal afterall. Realistically, you have the same problems any OTA reception setup is going to have, weather, etc. depending on where the collection antenna is located. I think DirecTV's is on top of the KTVU building but I'm not positive on that. I think Dish's is in the south bay somewhere, but I'm not positive about that either.


Darn... My only problem with this is that they have been doing alot of repair work on the tower over the last couple of months and they have to put down the whole tower to do repair work. I guess keeping Comcast for the local stuff as a backup might be wise for now.... 
Can't believe I'm actually thinking of keeping Comcast for anything other than for the Giants in HD  

Laters,
Mikef5


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Mikef5 said:


> Darn... My only problem with this is that they have been doing alot of repair work on the tower over the last couple of months and they have to put down the whole tower to do repair work. I guess keeping Comcast for the local stuff as a backup might be wise for now....
> Can't believe I'm actually thinking of keeping Comcast for anything other than for the Giants in HD
> 
> Laters,
> Mikef5


I know, there just isn't any perfect solution...I'm tellin' ya, it's a conspiracy...


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

UPDATE:

Now that KGO seems to be fixed.. I replied to their email asking me to check the quality on the other locals and noticed that while Fox and ABC HD were fine, now on top of NBC, CBS was looking bad as well.

Here is the response from Dish today:

These stations are having maintenance performed over the next 2-3 days.
We're expecting this to resolve most of the issues. As maintenance is
being done, you will most likely see these issues come and go, being
completed over the weekend and hopefully resolved by Monday. You will
most likely have periods of quality that are very good, but don't get
worse than what you are seeing now. We'll touch base in a few days for
an update.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

I'm glad to see they are keeping in touch with you, and by extension, the rest of us here, it's appreciated. But I have my doubts that the problems I've seen with KPIX have anything to do with maintenance on Sutro Tower.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

keenan said:


> I'm glad to see they are keeping in touch with you, and by extension, the rest of us here, it's appreciated. But I have my doubts that the problems I've seen with KPIX have anything to do with maintenance on Sutro Tower.


They have NOTHING to do with it... one of the antenna had to be fixed so whilst the workers are on the tower they have to shut it down as not to iraidiate anyone.

For them to even suggest that is an out and out LIE!!! Its schedule maintenence....

People in Dallas have said they have done something to there HDLIL feed and thus the picutures looks greatly improved...so lets hope they can do for us whatever they did for them...and just stop lieing.....


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

KPIX ch5 via my Dish622 was pixelating so bad last night that I had to switch to the SD channel to watch it. This was the 9PM "Criminal Minds" show and not OTA as I can't get much of anything OTA here in Santa Rosa, CA.

KNTV ch11 still has the 'acid trip' look during primetime although it wasn't quite so bad late night watching Letterman.

I bought the VIP622 so that I could get the 'locals' in HD from Dish and return my Comcast HD box. So far the Comcast box supplies a perfect picture on all the SF locals. Why can't Dish? Is it an MPEG4 problem?

I sent a Dish quality report about this and haven't seen any results.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Grandude said:


> KPIX ch5 via my Dish622 was pixelating so bad last night that I had to switch to the SD channel to watch it. This was the 9PM "Criminal Minds" show and not OTA as I can't get much of anything OTA here in Santa Rosa, CA.
> 
> KNTV ch11 still has the 'acid trip' look during primetime although it wasn't quite so bad late night watching Letterman.
> 
> ...


I think the KPIX problem is with KPIX, I've seen posts about in the OTA forums. KNTV OTOH, is still a mess.


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

keenan said:


> I think the KPIX problem is with KPIX, I've seen posts about in the OTA forums. KNTV OTOH, is still a mess.


I can say as a fact the problem is with KPIX. I did a split screen on my tv with cable on one side and the OTA on the other side and they pixelated at the same times. I can do HD split screen on my set and it does happen with both feeds. This is the worst I've seen KPIX in all the time that I've watched it, normally they have the best picture of all the local stations. Now whether it is a local problem or a national problem I don't know, maybe someone outside of the Bay Area can tell us if they had the same problems.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

No signal for the last 3 hours on KPIX.


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

Wrecker06 said:


> No signal for the last 3 hours on KPIX.


Wrecker,
They are doing repair work on Sutro tower, they will be shutting down all the stations in order to do that work, normally after 5 pm they bring the stations back online so the prime time shows are not missed. They haven't given an ETA on when the repairs will be completed.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Is there any update on this??? None of these problems have been resolved.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

Here's the latest info I received after firing off another email. They seem to be responding well now that the local media has gotten the story.

Response to the email I sent below:

Received this on 7/21/06

Dear xxxxWreckerxxxx (name removed),

We want you to know that we appreciate your information and we have been
using it. Our engineers have read your email. The Quality Assurance
team is currently observing SF as well. Tonight we hope to make some
more changes. So if you see any improvements or it gets worse let us
know. We are using your information. It has been very helpful. It will
be a matter of getting the problem identified and then corrected.
Unfortunately, sometimes these things take awhile and then other times
it is a matter of a few minutes. We will get it. Thank you for you
patience, information, and for being a valued customer.

EchoStar Satellite LLC
Quality Assurance Department
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Wrecker06 
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:24 AM
To: DishQuality
Cc: CEO
Subject: MAJOR HD LOCAL AUDIO/VIDEO QUALITY ISSUES IN SAN FRANCISCO

Josh,

Thanks for the update, here is the results of the maintenance Dish did
over the weekend.

Things got worse:

ABC HD (KGO) - Once again out of audio sync. A full second behind.
NBC HD (KNTV) - Still very jittery
CBS HD (KGO) - Was flawless, now has weird ghosting and A LOT of green
pixelation that lasts about 20 seconds.
FOX HD (KTVU) - Not as sharp as clear as it was. But is watchable

Not sure what the Dish Engineers did, but now only 1 of my HD locals is
watchable (FOX). CBS is now very ghosty and gets so much pixelation
break ups that it is annoying! ABC was finally working perfectly until
Friday evening.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

I don't know what the deal is with KNTV, but the NFL game Sunday night looked fine, probably the best the channel has ever looked----then Monday, or maybe it was Tuesday night-L&O: SVU, the smearing faces were back, no different than it was when the channel first went live.

I trust that Dish is continuing to work on this issue because as far as I'm concerned, Dish is only supplying 3 or the 4 HD locals they advertise. KNTV as is, is simply not acceptable.

It's my understanding that Dish plucks the OTA ATSC signal from an antenna farm at PacBell Park. This is probably fine for Sutro stations, KPIX, KGO and KTVU. KNTV however, broadcasts from Mt San Bruno, much further south, and behind some hills. Maybe Dish should try an antenna down near that location.

Something, anything, as this is really not any better than it was months ago. Compared to Comcast, there really isn't any comparison, Comcast is HD, the Dish feed is not.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

I think the NFL Feed was a national feed from NBC, the normal stuff is from KNTV.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Wrecker06 said:


> I think the NFL Feed was a national feed from NBC, the normal stuff is from KNTV.


Yes, but I think more importantly the scripted dramas like L&O: SVU are different material, the NFL game being live video and the TV show being film-based. KNTV gets it's signal from KNBC LA, I believe, it's been awhile, I do know that national feeds seen on KNTV are switched from LA, if LA has a problem we don't get the signal.

Anyway, I'll have to watch some more and see if there is a pattern, I recall Leno, which is digital video, was okay the last time I looked, the problem seems to crop up with what I believe to be film-based programs. Maybe the MPEG4 encoders have trouble with some aspect of that kind of material. I don't know what it is, but there is definitely something wrong.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

keenan said:


> Yes, but I think more importantly the scripted dramas like L&O: SVU are different material, the NFL game being live video and the TV show being film-based. KNTV gets it's signal from KNBC LA, I believe, it's been awhile, I do know that national feeds seen on KNTV are switched from LA, if LA has a problem we don't get the signal.
> 
> Anyway, I'll have to watch some more and see if there is a pattern, I recall Leno, which is digital video, was okay the last time I looked, the problem seems to crop up with what I believe to be film-based programs. Maybe the MPEG4 encoders have trouble with some aspect of that kind of material. I don't know what it is, but there is definitely something wrong.


The smearing issue does indeed exist on Leno!


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Paradox-sj said:


> The smearing issue does indeed exist on Leno!


I'll take your word on that, I only caught a few minutes and wasn't really paying attention. 

Do you see a difference though in some material over the other? It doesn't seem to be consistent to me.


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