# leaving dish for direct tv next week



## mkpolley (Dec 8, 2003)

Well,ive Been With Dish For 10+ Years,decided To Switch Companies.
Not Really Had Any Major Problems With Dish,the Reason I Am Switching Is Hd And Dish Nickle And Dime Me.
With Dish I Have 2 Vip 211,and The Top 250 Package,hd Access,monthly Bill Is About $100.

With Direct I Will Be Getting 2 Standard Hd Recievers For $98,hd Access For $10,their Version Of The Top 200 For Less Than $60 A Month,they Say I Will Get About 50 Hd Channels As Of Last Week.

The Bottom Line Is It Is Cheaper And Get More Hd,i Understand Directs Recievers Are Not As Good,will See How It Goes


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## zlensman (Jan 15, 2006)

mkpolley said:


> ....will See How It Goes


Posts like this are often met with snide comments. I hope this thread will remain civil. Let me try and set the tone by saying, "Good luck!"

Also, what I would find really interesting -- and valuable as information in this forum -- is if you would come back and post about your experience after the switch. Tell us how it went, if you would be so kind. How disruptive is it to change providers? What do you miss after leaving Dish? What do you love about your new DirecTV service? Please give us an update when you are done.


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## mkpolley (Dec 8, 2003)

zlensman said:


> Posts like this are often met with snide comments. I hope this thread will remain civil. Let me try and set the tone by saying, "Good luck!"
> 
> Also, what I would find really interesting -- and valuable as information in this forum -- is if you would come back and post about your experience after the switch. Tell us how it went, if you would be so kind. How disruptive is it to change providers? What do you miss after leaving Dish? What do you love about your new DirecTV service? Please give us an update when you are done.


Hi,I sure will report back to this forum as soon as the switch happens,i had no complaints with dish,it was my prefered choice for many years.
With all the money i got tied up in hd tvs and audio,i really dont want to wait any longer for more HD.if dish has more HD in 2 years,i will switch back if the price is inline.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Welcome! We have enough bandwidth for you........ FWIW, I have 2 good buddies that have jumper from E* to D* this year, and have loved it. I personally really think their customer service is top notch......but even that will be met with disagreements from some.


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

bye bye!


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I install Dish and I have installed Directv. I also have Dish equipment and I would say Directv has fewer problems with equipment. I would say that the majority of people from both services have no problems with their equipment. I do not recommend either over the other. I tell people to decide on their personal needs.


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## He Save Dave (Jun 6, 2006)

Let me know how it goes. I'm on the fence about switching. It's really tempting for me. I'm sure I'll end up switching to D* at some point for local HDs alone.


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## BigSey (Oct 18, 2006)

mkpolley said:


> Well,ive Been With Dish For 10+ Years,decided To Switch Companies.
> Not Really Had Any Major Problems With Dish,the Reason I Am Switching Is Hd And Dish Nickle And Dime Me.
> With Dish I Have 2 Vip 211,and The Top 250 Package,hd Access,monthly Bill Is About $100.
> 
> ...


My biggest question about this post is why someone would capitalize every word of the post. I'm not trying to be insulting here but it seems like having to hit the Shift key on every word would be annoying and time-consuming. I've just never seen anyone do it before.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

BigSey said:


> My biggest question about this post is why someone would capitalize every word of the post. I'm not trying to be insulting here but it seems like having to hit the Shift key on every word would be annoying and time-consuming. I've just never seen anyone do it before.


I do it sometimes...and have no idea why...just catch myself doing it.

Good luck with you switch...i'm also on the fence...but contract with dish has me grounded for now...let us know how it goes. Also something you may want to look at if you are a football fan...i had just seen an add that if you get the nfl ticket...the 4 months of 69.99 you pay for it.....they will wave your regular rate...then when the ticket is paid for, you start paying your monthly rate again...I BELIEVE that is how it works..and someone correct me if I'm wrong...but check it out none the less...if you like football.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...

And even you don't have to worry about the early termination fee of a contract, your still spending something to switch no matter what the bundle, selling/returning Dish gear, time for installers to come out and replace everything, install new dish's, what a hassle.. Is that really worth a few bucks a month, which maybe short-lived because its almost time for the annual rate adjustment early next year..


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...
> 
> And even you don't have to worry about the early termination fee of a contract, your still spending something to switch no matter what the bundle, selling/returning Dish gear, time for installers to come out and replace everything, install new dish's, what a hassle.. Is that really worth a few bucks a month, which maybe short-lived because its almost time for the annual rate adjustment early next year..


well 
1. this is a forum where he can vent and talk about it if he wants.

2. Installation will be done by installers not him...one afternoon appt...he's done.

3. He said he will have a contract...which means he will pay whats in the contract until it's up.

these idle threats i keep hearing about switching are a joke...thats the great thing about having choices...


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## drmckenzie (Aug 28, 2007)

I recently switched from Directv to Dish, and I'm very happy with the result. 

I had non-HD service from Directv for years, and watched in horror as -- day by day -- the SD picture got worse and worse as they added channel after channel to the same bandwidth. I'd have to go into my channel list every week and remove about 10 channels they'd added during that time. Of course, it was all useful stuff -- if you want to watch an all-Latvian channel, etc.. But the picture gradually went from pretty good to down-right awful due to excessive compression. 

When I priced D vs E, I found E cheaper, and after the system was installed, found that,overall, the picture was vastly superior to what I got from D.

So we may talk about HD, but at least 90% of what's on your box is SD. And in my opinion, Dish is the hands-down winner overall. The HD war is ongoing, and it's too early to declare a winner on that front. If you could just take the two systems side by side and go through the channel lineup next to each other, comparing picture quality, you'd go with Dish.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Launching new satellites gives more bandwith...no?


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## zlensman (Jan 15, 2006)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...


Norm, I agree that most people who want to switch don't need to post about it. "I'm switching from A to B 'cause A sucks." That's not helpful.

However, this thread has the potential to provide useful information. The OP has agreed (#3) to make an effort to report back on his experience. I found the info about a D->E switch (#12) to be interesting. Those who are on the fence (#7) are probably interested in hearing these tales. Is switching a breeze, or a P.I.T.A.?


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## drmckenzie (Aug 28, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> Launching new satellites gives more bandwith...no?


It depends on how the bandwidth is used. My understanding is that these are mostly for HD. However, I'm sure D will soon strain whatever capacity they have with the number of specialized channels being adding every week.

More important from my standpoint, is that D has already shown (for the last several years) that they are willing to sell an increasingly inferior product for an increasing amount of money.

Maybe E will get that desperate. I just hope everybody yelling about "more HD, gimme now!" won't force E to compress their signals to fit more bandwidth in.

Remember, if you compress a signal enough, it doesn't matter if a picture has a lot of pixels or not. Not when big blocks of those numerous little HD pixels are displaying the same thing, because all the detail has been compressed out of the picture....


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## He Save Dave (Jun 6, 2006)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...


It helps people like me who want to hear what its like switching from E to D which I am considering doing. There are a lot of little things you don't realize before you switch until you switch. If I can learn things from him I can make a more educated decision for myself.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

I considered D* over E* but have decided to stay where I'm at. I can't get LIL HD thru them for my area. And one can only record 2 things at once. I can reord 3 w/ the 622. Also I would have an up front of around $300 and it isn't repaid to me like E* did ( I got back 2 of the 3 which means I was only out $100). I also would miss the commercial free RAVE channel. And after the new E* bird is up the battle will shift back to E* advantage. The final line up for both will be laid out after both co's have their new birds up. As far as paying the same price over the entire length of contract not sure that one will hold water. There is usually small print to say that the present rate is subject to change.


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## mkpolley (Dec 8, 2003)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...
> 
> And even you don't have to worry about the early termination fee of a contract, your still spending something to switch no matter what the bundle, selling/returning Dish gear, time for installers to come out and replace everything, install new dish's, what a hassle.. Is that really worth a few bucks a month, which maybe short-lived because its almost time for the annual rate adjustment early next year..


I understand what is involved with switching companies,where in my posts did i bash dish,i didnt.its not the end of the world,i can always come back after the commitment period.
Whats wrong with seeing what direct tv has to offer? competition is good for everyone.


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## mkpolley (Dec 8, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> I do it sometimes...and have no idea why...just catch myself doing it.
> 
> Good luck with you switch...i'm also on the fence...but contract with dish has me grounded for now...let us know how it goes. Also something you may want to look at if you are a football fan...i had just seen an add that if you get the nfl ticket...the 4 months of 69.99 you pay for it.....they will wave your regular rate...then when the ticket is paid for, you start paying your monthly rate again...I BELIEVE that is how it works..and someone correct me if I'm wrong...but check it out none the less...if you like football.


Yes,I saw that..i do like football,but i get enough games on the networks and espn,dont really have the time to watch more.my 18 month contract expired in sept 07.

I will let you know how it goes,Im sure there are pros and cons with both companies.


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## mkpolley (Dec 8, 2003)

BigSey said:


> My biggest question about this post is why someone would capitalize every word of the post. I'm not trying to be insulting here but it seems like having to hit the Shift key on every word would be annoying and time-consuming. I've just never seen anyone do it before.


I had caps lock on the computer,its just the way it came out,I didnt shift every other word,dont know why it came out that way


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## brian188 (Oct 13, 2007)

It Is A Function Of The Forum Software To Prevent Screaming (Typing In All Caps)! 

This Post Has Been Written In All Caps.


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## brian188 (Oct 13, 2007)

BigSey said:


> My biggest question about this post is why someone would capitalize every word of the post. I'm not trying to be insulting here but it seems like having to hit the Shift key on every word would be annoying and time-consuming. I've just never seen anyone do it before.


That is a great catch though LOL !rolling

Getting back on point... I can't wait to hear the comments about the switch. I just joined D* (last month just before the HD explosion) from Comcrap and was teetering between E* and D*. I'm sure I made the right choice for me, but it's always good to hear the + & - first hand.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Occasionally an "I'm leaving" post has merit ... perhaps there is a problem that can be solved or a misunderstanding and the person leaving might find out that they are better off giving the system they are leaving one more chance. But often it is just sour grapes complaining that serves no purpose but to trash a company and insult the millions of customers who have decided not to leave (plus those who have decided to make the opposite jump).

If you are having trouble with the company post that ... there are people here with plenty of experience with trouble who can help you get a better viewing experience without the knee jerk "change providers" response. But just posting I'm leaving? What do you need a gold star? Can you not make a decision without a cheering squad? Are you the kind that burns bridges and cusses out the boss on your last day of a job never giving a thought to the future (where you may need that job again)? Or does insulting multi-billion dollar companies make you happy? Tilting at windmills rarely helps!

Personally, I find the I'm leaving posts uninteresting and try to restrain myself from posting "good, bye!" in every such thread. For those who have a problem they WANT solved (without leaving) those threads are useful ... but otherwise you might as well post in the forum for the company you are moving to ... you will have a lot higher approval rating (more fanboys applauding you, if that is what you are seeking). 

BTW: This applies to people who are leaving D* for E* as well ... or D*/E* for cable/Fios/whatever's next.
Constructive criticism is good ... whining, not so good.


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## Deke Rivers (Jan 8, 2007)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...
> 
> .


i kind of feel the same way with the "dont let the door hit you in ass on the way out" thing..
but it would be interesting as someone else has posted is to have people who switch come back and let us know the pains if any of switching and the differences good or bad


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Occasionally an "I'm leaving" post has merit ... perhaps there is a problem that can be solved or a misunderstanding and the person leaving might find out that they are better off giving the system they are leaving one more chance. But often it is just sour grapes complaining that serves no purpose but to trash a company and insult the millions of customers who have decided not to leave (plus those who have decided to make the opposite jump).
> 
> If you are having trouble with the company post that ... there are people here with plenty of experience with trouble who can help you get a better viewing experience without the knee jerk "change providers" response. But just posting I'm leaving? What do you need a gold star? Can you not make a decision without a cheering squad? Are you the kind that burns bridges and cusses out the boss on your last day of a job never giving a thought to the future (where you may need that job again)? Or does insulting multi-billion dollar companies make you happy? Tilting at windmills rarely helps!
> 
> ...


Get used to it...with the recent HD explosion, there will probably be a lot of leaving post...whether it's because of E* not putting up enough HD...or D* quality of HD...I think we will see a lot more...I just hope they do like mkpolley and give specifics on why and how the switch goes...so that way it is beneficial to all.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> I considered it
> I considered D* over E* but have decided to stay where I'm at. I can't get LIL HD thru them for my area. And one can only record 2 things at once. I can reord 3 w/ the 622.


How are you recording 3?


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

As well as the new HD channels, you will appreciate leaving E*'s nickel and diming of you. For example, with E* HD is $20 vs D* at $10 or $15. Oh, but lets not forget about E* extra $1 per HD receiver, so there's a few more bucks. Oh, and lets not forget about E* HD "enabling fee" if you choose not to get HD but you use the receiver for OTA as well as E * SD. Oh, and lets not forget about E* $35 "enabling" fee per receiver if you want to hook up an external drive. And, then there's the "per receiver" DVR fee, instead of D*'s one fee per house. All of this E*b.s. can add up fast.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Get used to it...with the recent HD explosion, there will probably be a lot of leaving post...whether it's because of E* not putting up enough HD...or D* quality of HD...I think we will see a lot more...


And, as noted, those people will be replaced by others. Sure, E* lost 680,000 subscribers in the 2nd quarter of 2007 (last quarter reported - D* lost 772,000) but they gained 850,000 subscribers to replace those people (D* gained 900,000). A net gain of 170k for E* and 128k for D*. I'm looking forward to 4Q results early next year to see if this "doomsday" scenario fails to play out like all the others. 



texaswolf said:


> How are you recording 3?


Two via satellite and one via OTA.



jal said:


> As well as the new HD channels, you will appreciate leaving E*'s nickel and diming of you.


D* makes their money too, just instead of "nickle and diming" they just charge the dollars up front. On average, D$ charges their customers $10 more per month than E* charges their subscribers ($76.43 vs $66.06). It helps that D*'s base price is higher!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> And, as noted, those people will be replaced by others. Sure, E* lost 680,000 subscribers in the 2nd quarter of 2007 (last quarter reported - D* lost 772,000) but they gained 850,000 subscribers to replace those people (D* gained 900,000). A net gain of 170k for E* and 128k for D*. I'm looking forward to 4Q results early next year to see if this "doomsday" scenario fails to play out like all the others.
> 
> Two via satellite and one via OTA.
> 
> D* makes their money too, just instead of "nickle and diming" they just charge the dollars up front. On average, D$ charges their customers $10 more per month than E* charges their subscribers ($76.43 vs $66.06). It helps that D*'s base price is higher!


yeah D* upfront charge is what kept me away in the first place...and my point was you will see those post from both sides..not just E*.

SO I can record A local and 2 Sat channels at once? Would have been nice to know when they installed it. Now are you still able to watch recorded shows while recording 3?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Now are you still able to watch recorded shows while recording 3?


Of course! You can actually watch TWO previously recorded shows (or the shows recording in progress, your choice) while recording three others (one on each TV or use PIP in single mode).

Check out the 622 support forum for the "First Look" and other information.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Of course! You can actually watch TWO previously recorded shows (or the shows recording in progress, your choice) while recording three others (one on each TV or use PIP in single mode).
> 
> Check out the 622 support forum for the "First Look" and other information.


damn...of course i will have to tell the wife this is a new feature...since we have skipped some of her shows to record..."our shows"...:lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WAF + 1 

Another reason _not_ to leave Dish. :lol:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> WAF + 1
> 
> Another reason _not_ to leave Dish. :lol:


now i did say I liked the equipment better...just frustrated with my most watched channels not being matched in HD....although I have picked up quite a few shows on Discovery HD !


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> well
> 1. this is a forum where he can vent and talk about it if he wants.
> 2. Installation will be done by installers not him...one afternoon appt...he's done.
> 3. He said he will have a contract...which means he will pay whats in the contract until it's up. these idle threats i keep hearing about switching are a joke...thats the great thing about having choices...


Yep, its a forum, however I just think people are looking for those who agree and justification with a choice they make, heaven forbid they just go out and do it.. I don't care if someone switches..

The point of installation is the time, more often than not you have to take off work to meet an installer, it takes a couple hours to do or more. Your changing everything to switch, Dish's as well as recievers, so depending on where they are installed, there are potential repairs to fix mount holes for previous dish mounts, because they may not be able to use same mounts to attach the new Dish's.. And all for what? A few extra channels, the chance to find out that its really not that different; and in the long run, its still "just TV" and the different channels that you have you may not ultimately wind up watching routinely if at all, and E* in a few months has all the same channels you thought you switched for and any cost savings goes out the window in the next rate adjustment.

What idle threats are you talking about??? I'm confused....


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

I stumbled across this thread then did a silly thing -- I actually looked at my E* statement and compared it with service from D*. I can pick up five HD channels I'd love to have and save $45 a month for the first year, $35 thereafter. I was going to add an EHD to my 622; not any more.

I found a business report where E* is hoping to be bought out, this could be a good time to jump ship.

Am I missing anything? Is there some dark aspect of D*, hardware, software, content or service that I don't see and need to avoid? 

Thanks


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

James Long said:


> WAF + 1
> 
> Another reason _not_ to leave Dish. :lol:


The 811 I had was a WAF reason for leaving E*.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

FogCutter said:


> I stumbled across this thread then did a silly thing -- I actually looked at my E* statement and compared it with service from D*. I can pick up five HD channels I'd love to have and save $45 a month for the first year, $35 thereafter. I was going to add an EHD to my 622; not any more.
> 
> I found a business report where E* is hoping to be bought out, this could be a good time to jump ship.
> 
> ...


I think your savings math is flawed..

Business reports are rumors, many of which never ever happen, and even if E* were to merge or be bought by someone else, nothing much is likely to change if anything at all other than name, and I doubt that would happen either because of name recognition..


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...
> 
> And even you don't have to worry about the early termination fee of a contract, your still spending something to switch no matter what the bundle, selling/returning Dish gear, time for installers to come out and replace everything, install new dish's, what a hassle.. Is that really worth a few bucks a month, which maybe short-lived because its almost time for the annual rate adjustment early next year..


What is wrong with people telling us they are switching and why? Maybe Dish needs to see more of these so they can wake up and try and save their company.

No it's not gloom and doom for Dish by any stretch but I feel the very same way. As I said before, if not for the excellent 622 I would have been gone already.

I started with D* many years ago and moved to E* for the past 8+ years.

I have a home with 3 HD and 3 SD sets and I have a 622 and a 501 so I can only have 1 HD set. Sure I can add more HD boxes but the fees that Dish will charge me suck big time. Want to charge me a stupid DVR fee then why do I have to pay it for each box? I understand that D* charges a per account DVR fee (correct me if I'm wrong) and while I still disagree with the DVR fee at least I could add more HD DVR's without racking up $12 per box (DVR+rental fee)

Some may call me cheap but the real issue is that I split my TV viewing from 3 different HD sets. They are only going one at a time and I feel that it's stupid to charge me for three separate boxes + three separate DVR fees all because I spend my time in different rooms of the house.

Sure I can chain them all to one box (I do now with the 622 to a 2nd HD set) but one one is true HD.

I have no issue paying a rental fee for each box. I understand that they are not going to give me three HD boxes for free but three separate DVR fees? Give me a break!

Yes I could do one DVR and 2 non-DVR's but my wife only watching TV in one room so she wants a DVR and I need a DVR for the big set in the basement.

The entire point of all of this is that some people (myself included) feel that many of Dish's fees are unjust and the DVR per box is one of them.

Rental per box makes perfect sense but I cannot even come up with a single reason to charge a DVR fee let alone charge it for each box.

This silly little fee is one of the main reasons I'm prob going to end up with D*

The only reason I stay is the equipment issue. I hear all sorts of bad stories about those D* boxes.

-JB


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## mauijiminar (Oct 11, 2007)

Well I just switch to D from E and I think the I have liked the change. Now I love sports and I miss the Baseball Extra Innings and I have always wanted the NFL Sunday Ticket. The HD DVR for D is in my opinon ok, maybe not as good as the VIP 622, BUT it is not bad enought to keep me from switching over. I like the HD channels and I think they are just ahead of E for now. My bill is going to around 40.00 cheeper per month with D. Anyway I am very pleased with the switch so far. I also know that D will have local HD channels Q1 of 2008.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> What idle threats are you talking about??? I'm confused....


well...these for one:



> The point of installation is the time, more often than not you have to take off work to meet an installer, it takes a couple hours to do or more. Your changing everything to switch, Dish's as well as recievers, so depending on where they are installed, there are potential repairs to fix mount holes for previous dish mounts, because they may not be able to use same mounts to attach the new Dish's.. And all for what? A few extra channels, the chance to find out that its really not that different; and in the long run, its still "just TV" and the different channels that you have you may not ultimately wind up watching routinely if at all, and E* in a few months has all the same channels you thought you switched for and any cost savings goes out the window in the next rate adjustment.


take time off work...unless someone else could be there....

switching out dish's...why? You know how many houses I see with both companies dish's up...due to a switch at some point...not like it's a 10 foot dish in the back yard.

and it's funny that a lot of people have notice savings if they switched...yet you say they are flawed....have you seen their statements? What you get charged could be different than what they get charged for the same package...all about when you sign up under what deal...so maybe THEY are saving...I'm sure there are D* customers who may get a better deal switching to E*...depending on when you got your package deal.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> well...these for one:
> 
> If you consider the *fact* that changing services requires replacement and installation of new equipment a threat of some sort, then you are completely lost...


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> What is wrong with people telling us they are switching and why? Maybe Dish needs to see more of these so they can wake up and try and save their company. -JB


While there maybe nothing inherently wrong, I don't think its necessary. As I've said, I just think that when they do this they are looking for justification for the decision, even if it really doesn't make much sense and the reasons for doing so maybe good to them, but over the long term may not really accomplish anything. (maybe even in the short term)

Its possible that if they wanted NFL Sunday ticket, then thats a good reason if you really want to watch football non-stop, and that doesn't save anyone any money, that package is spendy.

As far as the Dish waking up and saving their company, where is there any indication that Dish is trouble? Up until what, the past week or two, Dish was the undisputed leader in HD programming, whether you liked all channels or not. Dish has added at least a dozen HD channels in the past couple months.. I doubt that they are the last.

To assume that just because D* after months and months of posturing for more HD and they finally deliver, to me doesn't place Dish at any significant disadvantage, its just going to take a little time for them to add whatever channels they feel will level the playing field or place then ahead or perhaps they'll make some other change that will change how the things are played.. I could think of a few things that would change the market place for Satellite and it doesn't require more channels.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

normang said:


> While there maybe nothing inherently wrong, I don't think its necessary. As I've said, I just think that when they do this they are looking for justification for the decision, even if it really doesn't make much sense and the reasons for doing so maybe good to them, but over the long term may not really accomplish anything. (maybe even in the short term)
> 
> Its possible that if they wanted NFL Sunday ticket, then thats a good reason if you really want to watch football non-stop, and that doesn't save anyone any money, that package is spendy.
> 
> ...


I have my opinion and you have yours. I provided an example of the DVR per reciever fee vs D*'s DVR per account fee. Both are an utter rip off because they provide no service for the money but charging an extra $6 for every DVR is just utter and complete BS.

I said nothing about me wanting to leave because of HD. I'm sure eventually Dish will level off and both companies will have about the same HD. Not everyone who has left or is considering leaving is doing so just because of a few missing HD channels as my example shows. It may very well be the straw that breaks the camels back so to speak.

Right now I can only watch HD on 1 of my 3 HD sets because Dish wants to charge me $36 a month for 3 DVR's - D* charges $20 for the same thing and $5 less for HD so that's $21 less for more HD.

D* = $5 box rental, $5 per account DVR fee
E* = $6 box rental, $6 per box DVR fee

DVR Boxes = 1,2,3,4

D* = $10, $15, $20, $25
E* = $12, $24, $36, $48

Are these numbers above correct? If so then Dish is really socking it to people with multiple boxes!

This is inexcusable and when I call Dish they cannot tell me what the DVR pays for. Yes D* charges a BS DVR fee also but it's for your entire account. While this is still wrong it's a hell of alot easier to swallow over being charges $6 for each DVR.

I know Dish will be restructuring things soon (I hope) and I'm waiting for the first of the year to see the new rates and packages. If the situation is the same in January then I too will be a former Dish customer of 8+ years.

And NOT because of a few missing HD channels.

And still no word from Dish.

-JB


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

normang said:


> I think your savings math is flawed..
> 
> Business reports are rumors, many of which never ever happen, and even if E* were to merge or be bought by someone else, nothing much is likely to change if anything at all other than name, and I doubt that would happen either because of name recognition..


Seems like a lot to me, too, but that's what the D* calculator keeps kicking back. There are five HD channels on D* right now that E* doesn't have and isn't discussing at the moment.

The big price difference appears to be charges for locals, superstations, HD, multiple receiver fee, etc.. etc..

I don't see those fees on D*, but maybe the rate calculator doesn't include the fine print.

I can get into a pair of HR20s, installed and dancing and the savings pay back in 10 months. It's all gravy after that. My HD storage goes from 25 hours to 100 hours and I can have SciFi-HD in a couple of weeks.

My concern with the E* buyout is that it is logical that they will be slower to roll out the new channels I want, kind of like D*'s lack of progress before New Corp picked them up. Now they are going great guns and are clearly in the lead. With no buyout, E* could just putter around conserving cash for a long time.

thanks for the input.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

FogCutter said:


> Seems like a lot to me, too, but that's what the D* calculator keeps kicking back. There are five HD channels on D* right now that E* doesn't have and isn't discussing at the moment.


Don't fall into the trap of counting national HD channels to the exclusion of counting hours of HD programming. All but a couple of those exclusive channels are substantially lacking HD content.

This goes back to wanting CW for one (Smallville) or two hours (Smallville, Everybody Hates Chris) per week.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> well
> 1. this is a forum where he can vent and talk about it if he wants.
> 
> 2. Installation will be done by installers not him...one afternoon appt...he's done.
> ...


I don't think that #3 is a correct statement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't TOS give D*, or E* for that matter, the right to change programming charges anytime during the xx month commitment?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

normang said:


> texaswolf said:
> 
> 
> > well...these for one:
> ...


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

richiephx said:


> I don't think that #3 is a correct statement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't TOS give D*, or E* for that matter, the right to change programming charges anytime during the xx month commitment?


yeah..you know what...mine are locked in because we agreed to the monthly auto payment....my bad.


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## rlgold88 (Aug 30, 2006)

James Long said:


> Of course! You can actually watch TWO previously recorded shows (or the shows recording in progress, your choice) while recording three others (one on each TV or use PIP in single mode).
> 
> Check out the 622 support forum for the "First Look" and other information.


you can actually record 3 programs at the same time (can they be in hd) and as you are recording those 3 programs you can watch 2 previously recorded programs at the same time. The receiver has 5 outputs are they all hd?
Wow that an amazing piece of equipment. I have 2 hd tv in the same room will that box give them both HD.
I know this is off topic but the vip 622 sounds awsome 
I am with D* tv now and am happy but I did not no that box from dish could do all that .


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The trouble with calculation is that it varies by what people need and what you can actually get from the provider. BOTH D* and E* want a return on their investments.

D* paid $879 million in subscriber acquisition costs ($677 per subscriber) in just the second quarter, plus $423 million in upgrade and retention costs. (This apparently includes $335 million for leased equipment.)

E* paid $376 million in subscriber acquisition costs ($654 per subscriber) during the second quarter. (This does NOT include the $361 million cost of leased equipment. Retention costs are not broken out.)

NEITHER company is going to willingly lose money on a subscriber ... D* will get their $677 out of each subscriber (and E* will get their $654) somehow.

I believe that a lot of people could save money by considering what they NEED. E* seems to penalize those who need more than the average, D* seems to penalize those who need less than the average.

For example, E*'s $6 "DVR Fee" only hurts customers with multiple DVRs ... a little more pain with each addition (just like the additional receiver fees that both charge). ALL DVR fees are waived for the high end "AEP package" (just as D* waives the fees on their high end "Premier" package).

But D* goes after the low end ... last February's price increases were HIGHER for customers with the low end packages (especially for new customers) and D* simply does not have a package comparable to AT100.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> DVR Boxes = 1,2,3,4
> 
> D* = $10, $15, $20, $25
> E* = $12, $24, $36, $48
> ...


Neither company charges a lease fee on the first receiver, so your numbers are a little skewed right off the bat. If you have more than a couple HD displays with DVRs, E* can be quite a bit more expensive on a monthly basis. The up-front cost from D* may be substantially more (approximately $500 more for a four HD DVR system).

In a multi-HD E* system, SD receivers may not be required, but they would likely be in a D* setup.

E* doesn't charge DVR fees to its top consumer package (AEP) while D* does (Premiere).

In summation, it makes a huge difference what your planned setup is as to which of the two companies is a better buy and it cannot be boiled down to a System D versus System E table.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> For example, E*'s $6 "DVR Fee" only hurts customers with multiple DVRs ... a little more pain with each addition (just like the additional receiver fees that both charge). ALL DVR fees are waived for the high end "AEP package" (just as D* waives the fees on their high end "Premier" package).


Not for extra DVRs


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rlgold88 said:


> you can actually record 3 programs at the same time (can they be in hd) and as you are recording those 3 programs you can watch 2 previously recorded programs at the same time. The receiver has 5 outputs are they all hd?


Only two outputs. The three recordings (all three can be HD or SD) go to the hard drive while the two playbacks (one SD one HD except in single mode where you're dealing with picture in picture on an HD screen) are being displayed.

TV1 out is HDMI/Component in HD and S-Video/Audio/Composite/RF in SD.
TV2 out is Audio/Composite/RF in SD.

More over in the 622 Support Forum!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rlgold88 said:


> you can actually record 3 programs at the same time (can they be in hd) and as you are recording those 3 programs you can watch 2 previously recorded programs at the same time. The receiver has 5 outputs are they all hd?


The ViP622/722 have a single HD output and one independent SD output. It is still a much more capable machine than most any other in the business.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> > For example, E*'s $6 "DVR Fee" only hurts customers with multiple DVRs ... a little more pain with each addition (just like the additional receiver fees that both charge). ALL DVR fees are waived for the high end "AEP package" (just as D* waives the fees on their high end "Premier" package).
> 
> 
> Not for extra DVRs


Yes ... AEP should include all DVRs.
(Additional receiver fees, which apply to D* as well, still apply).


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Yes ... AEP should include all DVRs.
> (Additional receiver fees, which apply to D* as well, still apply).


Interesting...I have the AEP+ HD package...and when I asked E* about another DVR, they said I would be charged a monthly DVR fee...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> ALL DVR fees are waived for the high end "AEP package" (just as D* waives the fees on their high end "Premier" package).


New subscribers to D*'s Premier package do not qualify for the waived DVR fee.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Interesting...I have the AEP+ HD package...and when I asked E* about another DVR, they said I would be charged a monthly DVR fee...


That's what you get for asking a CSR. They just signed me up for AEP+DISH HD so that I would no longer have to endure the DVR fee.

Because I already subscribed to AT250+HBO/Skinamax, the price difference was about $5 to add SHO and Starz.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> That's what you get for asking a CSR. They just signed me up for AEP+DISH HD so that I would no longer have to endure the DVR fee.
> 
> Because I already subscribed to AT250+HBO/Skinamax, the price difference was about $5 to add SHO and Starz.


so since they are who help me when I contact E*...who do I talk to...don't have charlies cell number...again great customer service.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps the rules have changed since the beginning of the year.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> so since they are who help me when I contact E*...who do I talk to...don't have charlies cell number...again great customer service.


Do a search here and if you can't find an answer, post a new thread with your question(s). Regrettably, this is one of the best ways of getting a correct answer for either provider.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> Perhaps the rules have changed since the beginning of the year.


The have indeed: http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/comparePackages.jsp?assetId=900042


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Let me adjust:

E*

$6 for each additional receiver rental fee
$6 for each DVR

D*

$5 for each additional receiver rental fee
$5 per account DVR fee

DVR Receivers per account - 1,2,3,4,5

E* = $6, $18, $30, $42, $54
D* = $5, $10, $15, $20, $25

Extra costs E* charges:

1 box = $1
2 boxes = $8
3 boxes = $15
4 boxes = $22
5 boxes = $29

Now as more people add HD sets (and do not want to deal with downgraded HD-SD on second TV) it will no longer be unusual for people to have 2,3 or even more DVR's!

How can Dish justify this "huge" price gap? As I said before... it's bad enough to even have to pay any DVR fee that basically is total gravy that pays for nothing but not only does Dish charge you $1 eaxtra per box but they hit you will multiple DVR fees?

Amazing!

-JB

P.S. If Dish waives "ALL" DVR fees for the AEP please let me know because then it would be worth it for me to get that just to save the multiple DVR fees or do they just waive "one" DVR fee?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> The have indeed: http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/comparePackages.jsp?assetId=900042


why the link to D*...did you mean to post an E* link?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> why the link to D*...did you mean to post an E* link?


There was a change on the D* side ... Premier does not include DVR service (on that chart).

One other thing to throw into that calculation is the number of DVRs _needed_.
Since E* serves four TVs (two HDs) on two DVRs instead of on four DVRs.

(BTW: E*'s DishBuilder is adding the $5.98 DVR fee for the second DVR when buying AEP.)


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## He Save Dave (Jun 6, 2006)

lol how did I know the die-hard E* apologists would be showing themselves?

You're surprised or upset that people post about switching providers on a satellite tv forum? We should post about every aspect of our service besides switching providers?

This is all part of the experience of being a consumer, dudes. I've changed my mind 3 times from all the new info I've found on these forums. From info I've garnered from both sides of the satellite camp. I'm glad we can have discussions about being dissatisfied with our service. It's beneficial. I didn't come here to defend a company at all costs. I came here to discuss satellite tv. Part of that will always be discussing certain aspects I'm unhappy with. If/when I switch I'd hope I could share that part of being a satellite customer as well.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

He Save Dave said:


> lol how did I know the die-hard E* apologists would be showing themselves?
> 
> You're surprised or upset that people post about switching providers on a satellite tv forum? We should post about every aspect of our service besides switching providers?
> 
> This is all part of the experience of being a consumer, dudes. I've changed my mind 3 times from all the new info I've found on these forums. From info I've garnered from both sides of the satellite camp. I'm glad we can have discussions about being dissatisfied with our service. It's beneficial. I didn't come here to defend a company at all costs. I came here to discuss satellite tv. Part of that will always be discussing certain aspects I'm unhappy with. If/when I switch I'd hope I could share that part of being a satellite customer as well.


EXACTLY! If everyone came on here to praise their service...it wouldn't be much of a board.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> Now as more people add HD sets (and do not want to deal with downgraded HD-SD on second TV) it will no longer be unusual for people to have 2,3 or even more DVR's!


Projecting into the future in this instance may not be reasonable. Assuming that either provider's pricing structure is going to remain static is bad reasoning.


> How can Dish justify this "huge" price gap?


The "gap" that you speak of doesn't exist on a large scale for most subscribers. What does exist is the "huge" disparity between the acquisition costs of each company's receivers. How does D* justify charging the up-front fees/pricing they do on their receivers?


> If Dish waives "ALL" DVR fees for the AEP please let me know because then it would be worth it for me to get that just to save the multiple DVR fees or do they just waive "one" DVR fee?


While the AK/HI/PR customer agreement is the only document that still refers to the DVR Service Fee waiver, I was told that it was still a feature of AEP a couple of weeks ago.

It is possible that E* is aping D* by dropping the waiver, but I added it to my account on October 5th.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> (BTW: E*'s DishBuilder is adding the $5.98 DVR fee for the second DVR when buying AEP.)


DISHBuilder addes a $5.98 DVR fee for each DVR under the AEP package. I'm suspicious that they're changing the policy to come in line with the D* policies.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I just did a comparison between the two companies for MY circumstance ONLY. Presently I have both DISH and DIRECTV. 

$94.99 AEP with locals 
$20.00 hd pack
--------------------
$114.99
$12.00 2 extra hd [email protected] 6.00
-------------------------
$126.99
$7.87 tax at 6.25 %
---------------------------
$133.86

Now if I wanted to switch full time for Directv hd , I could get :

$69.99 HD plus dvr pack 
$4.99 extra hd pack
--------------------------
$74.98
$9.98 2 extra receivers @4.99
$41.00 for all 4 premium movie packs
------------------------------
$125.96
$7.87 tax at 6.25%
--------------------------------
$133.83

So for 3 cents less a month I can get the exact setup with no dvr fees and more hd channels with Directv. IT looks to me that DIrectv reconsidered the Premier pack with no dvr fees. Now when you consider the same movie packs compared between the two companies you see why they dropped out the sports pack for $5.99 with DISH. But if you aren't into sports like I'm not , it makes sense in pricing to add just the 4 premium movie packs instead of paying $48.00 for all 5 premium packs. That is where Directv always looked like they were higher . When you compared the older Premier pack with no dvr fees included to DISH AEP with no dvr fees , it was always much higer . Now you can start with the dvr plus pack with hd and add as much as you want in regards to premium packs and save money. DISH pushes you to the higher programming packs to escape the extra fees and Directv starts at a lower programming pack to start with to escape the dvr fees. 

To summarize it all , you can get the same setup with either company and spend about the same amount of money give or take 3 cents. The drawbacks to switching to directv for all hd would mean to me losing the 622/722 dvrs I have complete with external hard drive support. I would also lose my ability to use my terk clip on ota antenna that gives me a single coax into my house giving me ota and 2 sat tuners when you use a dish pro plus seperator. Not to mention the remote control wouldn't work like the DISH uhf remote control in another room. I presently can use my 622/722 receivers in two different rooms at the same time to watch either the same thing or something different than the other room if I wanted. Not to mention I would lose the ability to record upto 3 things at the same time: 2 sat and one ota channel . I use this feature daily during primetime as we watch a lot of network tv. The plus would mean more hd with Directv NOW and not maybe in the future. IF DISH continues to stall on adding more hd channels that I would actually watch and want , like Sci-fi, Fx, Usa, Mgm, and premium movie channels , I will seriously consider moving to Directv full time for all my hd needs. BUt I will still keep DISH just for locals in hd from Houston and then I could keep my ota antenna going . Another plus with DISH is that you can keep just locals and pay the no basic programming fee . Directv doesn't allow this. That way if DISH does step up to the plate and adds more hd I could go back to them if need be. I have no commitment with DISH and I own all of my 3 hd receivers. Either way I have options with either provider and the costs are comparable.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> EXACTLY! If everyone came on here to praise their service...it wouldn't be much of a board.


Nor is it when all people do is complain and throw rocks.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Nor is it when all people do is complain and throw rocks.


sure it is...adds for interesting debate

Just got off the phone with E* CSR...she double checked with "management".....and your first DVR fee is waived with the AEP....but EVERY dvr after that is a $5.98 fee.

I asked if they still condider themselves the HD leader

she said "at the time that we promoted that, we were the HD leader" and added 
"we are adding more HD content"

which made me happy until i asked "oh cool what and when?"

csr "we don't know what it will be and dont have release dates"

i asked "so...your adding more content, but don't know what it is, where it's at, or when it will come?"

csr "no sir, we don't know"

me "so then you honestly cant say that you are getting more...when your not sure if your making deals to get more"

csr "if you look at it from that way, then yes sir that is correct"

I wasn't expecting CSR to know much...but maybe charlie should get all of the CSR's up to date on something...at least make it look like you have a plan.

thus ...our frustration


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I still don't understand why people feel Dish (or anyone) owes them promises or announcements.

Maybe Dish should call all its customers and ask when we plan to pay our bills, and if we plan on paying next month the same way we paid this month... and if we plan on staying customers 6 months from now Dish should ask us that too. Maybe Dish should ask if we are planning any elective surgeries or might have children in the next 6 months or are thinking about changing jobs, since those might affect our desire and/or ability to continue Dish service.

It works both ways, right?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I still don't understand why people feel Dish (or anyone) owes them promises or announcements.
> 
> Maybe Dish should call all its customers and ask when we plan to pay our bills, and if we plan on paying next month the same way we paid this month... and if we plan on staying customers 6 months from now Dish should ask us that too. Maybe Dish should ask if we are planning any elective surgeries or might have children in the next 6 months or are thinking about changing jobs, since those might affect our desire and/or ability to continue Dish service.
> 
> It works both ways, right?


Well lets see....we pay dish for a service...that service is provide us with each of our package agreement....also they say they will continue to provide the most up to date content available...well obviously its available. We are asking..but they aren't talking...it's called a business....in business, you keep customers up to date on your....business...thus having happy customers...thats how it works...so yes...they do owe us announcements..maybe not promises...but information to even their own people would be nice.

and sure they can call and ask when i'm paying my bill...but can i tell them....."we will be paying our bill...we just dont know what kind of payment or when it will be"

Works both ways, right?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

normang said:


> Why people feel the need to advertise their switching??.. Just do it if you feel the need, no one really needs to know. Or is for some internal justification, someone agreed...
> 
> And even you don't have to worry about the early termination fee of a contract, your still spending something to switch no matter what the bundle, selling/returning Dish gear, time for installers to come out and replace everything, install new dish's, what a hassle.. Is that really worth a few bucks a month, which maybe short-lived because its almost time for the annual rate adjustment early next year..


Oh please. Stop!!!

I'm glad the OP posted. I don't visit the D* forums. I'm interested in hearing from a Dish sub who switches. I'm thinking about it. Dish is just too slow with adding HD. I'm having problems with my 622.

I'm looking forward to the OP's follow up comments.

Norman, please go to another thread. Thanks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Works both ways, right?


No, it doesn't.

Perhaps you need to re-read the residential agreement. As an E* customer you have given E* the right to do pretty much anything they want to the content on their channels. If they decide to cut AEP back to 100 channels tonight at midnight they can. Your only recourse is cancellation ... with you still paying the cancellation penalty if you have not fulfilled YOUR commitment to them. D* has similar language.

The agreements we make are VERY one sided. There are a lot of rules and regulations demanding promises, payments and fees from the customer but very little protection for the customer and absolutely NO promise that the provider will keep you informed.

If you can find where it is in the residential agreement that E* promises to tell you in advance of all plans for future programming changes let us know. Until then, perhaps you might want to lighten up a little?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> No, it doesn't.
> 
> Perhaps you need to re-read the residential agreement. As an E* customer you have given E* the right to do pretty much anything they want to the content on their channels. If they decide to cut AEP back to 100 channels tonight at midnight they can. Your only recourse is cancellation ... with you still paying the cancellation penalty if you have not fulfilled YOUR commitment to them. D* has similar language.
> 
> ...


well that sounds like a great deal...i'm glad you guys back that up....i'm just tired of getting jumped by you guys that will back them up to death...you act like they are never wrong...what they say is law...hail E*!!!! i was simply stating what kind of reply i got from E*

I have no problem lightening up...as long as as the super supports do too


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

I have a feeling there are many, many Dish customers sitting on the fence right now. One reason is HD, another is customer service and I'm sure there are other reasons as well. I do think it would be helpful if the OP would report back on his experiences with this. I, for one, would love to hear about those experiences. As of now, the Dish equipment keeps me with them but things do change and it would be nice to know what happens as the result of switching.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

My local grocery store didn't tell me when they stopped carrying ChiChi's brand salsa or Stoufer's baked spaghetti. Why didn't they announce these changes?

Dish, DirecTV, cable, and pretty much any company I can think of always writes contracts such that the only real agreement is that you agree to pay your bill and they agree to provide you what they were providing at the time you signed up. Clauses are written in to allow that they may add channels or they may drop channels, and you agree to that as well.

When you take a job, you agree to work for a certain salary... you might get a raise or a promotion, but you might not. You may also be asked to do more work than originally asked as long as it is related to your job. You can't sue your employer for not telling you that they might give you a raise next year whether or not they actually give you a raise.

It's just silly, in my opinion, for people to get in an uproar and demand any company (in this case Dish) pre-announce future plans. Companies do not owe us that information. They can pre-announce if they want, but they don't owe it.

Look what happened with DirecTV last month... people were going nuts on the hour when they didn't see new HD channels that they perceived were promised to them by DirecTV... the sky was falling, forums like this one were locked up with so many people trying to read/post about the falling sky... and all this could have been avoided if DirecTV had not pre-announced.

The reverse is also true. For all the people demanding and crying and everything... I can't remember the last time I saw anyone say "thanks a bunch" when something was pre-announced and then launched. If that announcement is missed, people get mad and throw fits... but if the date is made, no one says anything but "see, they made their date"... and then the "what are we getting next" posts start.

Look at all the new channels added by DirecTV in the last month... and then also take a look every week how many people are still demanding and asking "when will DirecTV get xxx"? it is insane... DirecTV is still taking flak even when adding channels... so I don't blame Dish at all for sitting and waiting and letting the dust clear.

If you don't announce, then no one can misquote you. I am, however, disappointed at recent Dish press releases where they have also started inflating the HD channel counts. I can't defend that, and hoped they would stay away from it.

But I still see no reason why anyone should feel owed any kind of announcements. You can stay with Dish, leave, pay to break your commitment, whine about lack of channels... but you can't say Dish owes you any pre-announcements. That simply doesn't compute.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> My local grocery store didn't tell me when they stopped carrying ChiChi's brand salsa or Stoufer's baked spaghetti. Why didn't they announce these changes?
> 
> Dish, DirecTV, cable, and pretty much any company I can think of always writes contracts such that the only real agreement is that you agree to pay your bill and they agree to provide you what they were providing at the time you signed up. Clauses are written in to allow that they may add channels or they may drop channels, and you agree to that as well.
> 
> ...


In business...which E* and D* are...there is a thing called "supply and demand".
We...the customers are the demand. If E* and D* customers sat back with the ho hum..maybe they will throw us bread crums if we are lucky attitude....there wouldn't be demand.

Now while it was a bad idea for D* to hand out dates..they still came through...and got customers excited (too early) for upcoming events. I don't expect E* to do that...but to come out and say the same thing they did for MLB and BTN "we are currently in negotiations with xxx, and are working to get you the best programming possible, is a better idea. There is no set date...no expectations that they WILL come to a deal, but it gives customers the idea that they are trying...thats good business.

As far as "they don't owe us anything"...yes...they do...just as D* owes their customers info, or comcast owes there customers info. Most companies out there will keep customers in the mix with plans of their most advertised product...even if it is to keep them at bay....thats part of business. E* is a company that is in a big war on HD with D*...which means customers are crucial to business. None of us that are upset said they owe us quarterly reports, or personal info...we just ask for information on THEIR biggest advertisement...and get nothing back...thats where customer satisfaction drops.

I never said "get it now or i'm gone" just gives some info...next month...2 months...fine...just a little something.

by the way last time i checked...satellite television wasn't on a shelve like salsa or bread


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Just got off the phone with E* CSR...she double checked with "management".....and your first DVR fee is waived with the AEP....but EVERY dvr after that is a $5.98 fee.


Continuing to needle the CSRs isn't going to get you much. If they do give you an answer about a hypothetical question, it stands a good chance of being an incorrect answer. It isn't necessary for you to continue testing the hypothesis.

They're there to offer you help with what you have and possibly add to it.

Misinformation from CSRs is frequent lament and you'll see it plastered all over the forums. There's a reason that customer service satisfaction with satellite TV is just a few points above that of the IRS.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> Continuing to needle the CSRs isn't going to get you much. If they do give you an answer about a hypothetical question, it stands a good chance of being an incorrect answer. It isn't necessary for you to continue testing the hypothesis.
> 
> They're there to offer you help with what you have and possibly add to it.
> 
> Misinformation from CSRs is frequent lament and you'll see it plastered all over the forums. There's a reason that customer service satisfaction with satellite TV is just a few points above that of the IRS.


Yeah i see that...isn't it funny once they transfer you to a higher dept. you go from a csr in the Philippines to an American dept...which will tell you...i don't know why the csr told you that...it isn't correct. :nono:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> ...or comcast owes there customers info.


The only communications I've received from the two cable providers in my domain are ads for the Comcast Triple Play package (about one a week), revised subscriber privacy notices and a notice of price increases that will be coming in the next 30 days from Charter. There may have also been some channels moved out of my package with Charter.

Comcast doesn't seem to care that the triple play is not available to me because I am out of their broadband telephone service area (I think is has to do with not having battery backup on the neighborhood router/DA).

None of this is meant to suggest that this treatment is somehow justified or should be the "industry standard", but they all know that setting up expectations with grand forward looking statements has bit them in the ass and it stings.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> In business...which E* and D* are...there is a thing called "supply and demand".
> We...the customers are the demand. If E* and D* customers sat back with the ho hum..maybe they will throw us bread crums if we are lucky attitude....there wouldn't be demand.
> 
> Now while it was a bad idea for D* to hand out dates..they still came through...and got customers excited (too early) for upcoming events. I don't expect E* to do that...but to come out and say the same thing they did for MLB and BTN "we are currently in negotiations with xxx, and are working to get you the best programming possible, is a better idea. There is no set date...no expectations that they WILL come to a deal, but it gives customers the idea that they are trying...thats good business.
> ...


Maybe, if you haven't done so already, you should send a letter or an email to [email protected] and tell them how you really feel. You have a right to express your opinion here but, we can't change the way you feel and by you saying the same thing over and over in threads will not change how you feel either. If you are truly distraught about being an E* customer, you should do whatever it takes to change your situation. Be proactive, but don't look for sympathy or remorse from others on this forum if you choose to do nothing.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

richiephx said:


> Maybe, if you haven't done so already, you should send a letter or an email to [email protected] and tell them how you really feel. You have a right to express your opinion here but, we can't change the way you feel and by you saying the same thing over and over in threads will not change how you feel either. If you are truly distraught about being an E* customer, you should do whatever it takes to change your situation. Be proactive, but don't look for sympathy or remorse from others on this forum if you choose to do nothing.


Actually myself and others like me and the OP are commenting about our concerns..and problems....but the super supporters of E* are jumping on us with a "how dare you speak of E* like that" attitude....I'm not "truly distraught"..after they get a few HD channels i have been wanting i will be happy...like MANY others here. You know as well as I do that trying to contact the CEO of a company this big is a joke...thats why they have CSR's and "contact us" links...for questions...which we have...to be responded to...it's called a chain of command...businesses have these....i have used both ways...i get the "we just don't know" answer from both. I don't think Charlie himself would agree with the super supporters saying...go ahead and leave...you'll be replaced....to unhappy customers. any company that would do that wouldn't last long.

So as long as we are still on the "LEAVING DISH FOR DIRECT TV NEXT WEEK" thread...us unhappy customers will continue to comment.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Satellite TV is a luxury item. People have lots of choices of luxury items. Also Dish is doing quite well even without HD service as the majority of Dish subscribers do not have HD at all.

But ignoring all that for a minute. they simply do not owe us anything. Now, it may be true if they continue to not say anything then perhaps some people will leave. But that has not yet happened... and DirecTV didn't lose subscribers during the couple of years of being behind Dish, so I see no reason why Dish would be in panic mode after just a month or so of DirecTV finally adding channels.

If you truly feel Dish owes you something, then talk to Dish. If they don't give you news that you feel you are owed, then leave them for someone else. That's pretty simple. If you don't leave but you feel they owe you an announcement, then you are your own proof that they don't need to announce anything to keep you... in which case you are just talking to hear your own voice because there are no consequences to what you are saying.

I repeat for the millionth (it seems) time... companies do not owe us any kind of pre-announcing. If they choose to do so, then cool... it is a risk on their part... but they never ever owe pre-announcements.

Try running a business yourself and pre-announce stuff all the time. See what that gets you in the long run. I'm sure you will find it more trouble than it was worth.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

texaswolf said:


> So as long as we are still on the "LEAVING DISH FOR DIRECT TV NEXT WEEK" thread...us unhappy customers will continue to comment.


Actually, this thread presumably was a "look at me" style of post for someone who already made a decision. Not for someone seeking help or to ask questions. His decision was already made.

Not sure why folks need to announce their choices... but it is for the most part a free country, so have at it


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> in which case you are just talking to hear your own voice because there are no consequences to what you are saying.


apparently you haven't heard of the contract fee...to have to pay that to get a better deal, wouldn't be a better deal.



> Actually, this thread presumably was a "look at me" style of post for someone who already made a decision. Not for someone seeking help or to ask questions. His decision was already made.


Actually the OP was stating WHY he was leaving, and that he would post back about his switch experience....which many people have thanked him for...why you can't read that..or are bothered by that...I don't understand.


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Satellite TV is a luxury item.


Not true. Afterall luxury items don't advertise based on price.



> Also Dish is doing quite well even without HD service as the majority of Dish subscribers do not have HD at all.


Just like AOL was doing well. The future is clearly HD. A majority of non-poor Americans now own HDTVs.



> I repeat for the millionth (it seems) time... companies do not owe us any kind of pre-announcing. If they choose to do so, then cool... it is a risk on their part... but they never ever owe pre-announcements.


Comapies need to do things to keep loyal customers with them. There may be some ideology that says they don't "owe" us anything - but they do owe it to their shareholders to make plans and announce them to prevent a lot of high paying customers from leaving.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

I think the OP stated his decision and made it clear what his reasons were. Four pages later we are still discussing something that has been discussed to death in many other threads. I vote to close this thread.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Agreed...the OP can start a new thread on his experience for those of us that are interested in it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes we do seem to have wonder in a number of directions all a bit off-topic. Since we have some very similar threads still going I will close this one.


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