# Dish far apart on contract with CBS as deadline nears



## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Dish far apart on contract with CBS as deadline nears*

(Reuters.com) - CBS Corp and Dish Network Corp are far apart on talks for a new distribution deal, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations, setting up the possibility that the satellite provider's subscribers could lose access to the most-watched U.S. TV network next month....

Full Story Here


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

I tried the CBS "All Access" streaming - Football is blacked out. All Access is a lie.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

?


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## EdJ (Jan 9, 2007)

Really not a big deal. Most people can get the 'over-the-air' signals with a relatively small antenna and just feed it into the satellite receiver. I fully support DISH and its stand against the broadcast giants who want to stick it to the people who watch their programming. Those who can not pick up the signals with an antenna can watch the programs they are interested in at cbs.com.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

I am glad I added OTA capabilities; the new, powerful small indoor antennas, now put an and to dealing with broadcaster disputes.

If CBS is pulled, while the Turner dispute is going on, or on the heels of it, DISH customers will certainly show their anger. Especially, when people are paying fees and getting less in return.

Another example of corporate greed.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

SO does anyone know if this contract is with CBS, an its subsequent Owned an Operated affiliates (O&O)? Or does it include ALL CBS affiliates, even those owned by other Media/Communications companies?

I would think it applies only to O&O, but thought I'd ask anyway.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'd think it would only affect O&O, that's the way things normally are.

It's not insignificant though, there are large markets involved (such as NYC, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Miami etc).


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## festivus (Nov 10, 2008)

The OTA solution is OK but timers won't work. At least on my vip622 they won't. When this type of thing happens I have to go online to see the programming then set a manual timers. Pain in the butt.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Add Denver.

When people, who subscribe to DISH, and are heavy duty Bronco fans, can't see the Broncos there will be a lot of very angry people out here. And DISH, is just right down the road, no far from where the Broncos headquarters are. CBS going during NFL season certainly will hit their credibility, than DISH's.



dpeters11 said:


> I'd think it would only affect O&O, that's the way things normally are.
> 
> It's not insignificant though, there are large markets involved (such as NYC, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Miami etc).


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

It does, but it is tedious.

What I figured out, with the Hopper, is that you must select a show from the programming guide and start it and end it for the exact time period for the show is to run. Or, just set up a manual timer fro the time period desired. I have this working on sub-channels and primary OTA channels. But, it certainly is not point and click, but less painful than going on line. Also, the Hopper only supports a single OTA tuner, so you cannot record two OTA channels at once. The Hopper does have an advantage over, over the VIP622, in that, it can record prime time channels; in the case, less than CBS if it is pulled.



festivus said:


> The OTA solution is OK but timers won't work. At least on my vip622 they won't. When this type of thing happens I have to go online to see the programming then set a manual timers. Pain in the butt.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Owned-and-operated CBS affiliates would go dark... but it would be on a by-market basis. Not underselling the importance for those markets, but it wouldn't affect everyone equally.

My ABC station is a Disney owned affiliate, for example, so the Disney dispute had the potential to lose me my ABC. I thought our NBC might have been NBC owned as well but I'm less sure about that.

A local company owns our CBS and FOX affiliates, so no issues with either of those networks aside from the local company... and since the same company owns both networks, they have more pull than the others in my area but at least it means both deals get done at the same time.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

And yet somehow I bet I'll still have more things to watch than I really have time for anyway. Once again Any channel that wants a chance that my eyeballs might get pointed in their direction better make it as convenient for me to do so as possible. Switch providers to "follow" a channel that's trying to raise my bill? Yeah never going to happen. Of course this is all still speculation also as there were these same kind of articles circulating during the Disney negotiation and that didn't end up in any channels getting pulled, so who knows?


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

this is the double whammy that Dish doesn't want, i bet some customers will be getting ready to call another provider by mid November cause it looks like these two disputes won't be resolved by then and i can see Dish not getting them resolved until January.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

The problem w/ Channels going dark like that, AND trying to create timers is because dish will almost certainly put, "CBS was removed due to contract dispute" or something to that effect IN PLACE of guide data on the CBS stations, and since that same guide data would be copied to the OTA channel also, I don't really see any way to program timers OTHER than manual timers.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

One reason why I added OTA ability is to at least get supposed "free television" when these disputes occur.

While I understand Turner, Viacom, et. al., whose existence more or less is based on a large subscriber base, OTA TV stations broadcast on publicly owned airways. While their content is copyrighted, they agreed many years ago that they would not charge a fee for Americans to receive their signals. Our so called "representative" in Congress changed this paradigm by heavy lobbying of broadcasters. In the early days of cable broadcasters were paying to get on cable. Why? Because they get get their signal much further, for example, from new York City to Montauk Point (120 miles to the east). Where I grew up, on Long Island, it was hard to get New York City stations even 50 miles way, because the tall building, in Manhattan, affected the signal. A good roof antenna or cable was a must. 

Fro New Yorkers, the following would make sense. We were happy to get 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13 crystal clear. With 3, 8, 30 and 49 for Connecticut. 6 and 12 were used for local purposes (Knicks and Ranger home games). All for $10/month, from Huntington Cable, in late 1960s dollars. The broadcasters were even more happy to have a larger audiences, especially the ones in Connecticut.

My have times have chnaged past 45 or so years.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

Wilf said:


> I tried the CBS "All Access" streaming - Football is blacked out. All Access is a lie.


Just like dish primetime anytime is bull****, I look at primetime meaning being able to watch all 3 east coast, midwest, and west coast shows. Not recording nonsense shows off your local network affiliates. Yes primetime anytime works for people who live on the east coast. Primetime is being able to watch wheel of fortune live for example at east coast time, not a precorded feed.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

nmetro said:


> We were happy to get 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13 crystal clear. With 3, 8, 30 and 49 for Connecticut. 6 and 12 were used for local purposes (Knicks and Ranger home games). All for $10/month, from Huntington Cable, in late 1960s dollars.


According to an inflation calculator on the web "What cost $10 in 1967 would cost $68.85 in 2013."

Which is more than AT120, so in that sense at least, we seem to be doing OK.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

comizzou573 said:


> Just like dish primetime anytime is bull****, I look at primetime meaning being able to watch all 3 east coast, midwest, and west coast shows. Not recording nonsense shows off your local network affiliates. Yes primetime anytime works for people who live on the east coast. Primetime is being able to watch wheel of fortune live for example at east coast time, not a precorded feed.


Sheesh ... you make it sound like PrimeTime Any Time is a promise that one could see the next season finale of The Big Bang Theory at any time. Never mind that they have not taped it yet. 

The actual feature is well defined by DISH and one is only lying to oneself expecting it to be anything more than it is ... your local stations (ie: the stations who have first air distribution rights from each of their networks). That includes Wheel of Fortune where your local station paid for the rights to airing the show.

I'm sorry that the world doesn't work the way you imagine it does - but please, come back to reality see how it actually works before you confuse yourself and others.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yeah, Id never even begin to think that is what primetime is supposed to be. What it is is great IMHO as is...


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

Looking at the bright and positive side, when/if a new distribution deal is inked DISH customers will very likely gain access to Showtime Anytime. (At least that is how it worked for DirecTV and Charter subscribers.)
In the case of DirecTV the new deal with CBS was announced 10/9/12 with Showtime Anytime becoming available to customers on 12/19/12. However, in the case of Charter the new deal with CBS was announced on 1/29/13 but Showtime Anytime didn't become available to customers until 3/6/14.

The Smithsonian Channel is also a possible addition that could return to the DISH lineup after a new deal as well.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Hmmm. Well we watch a lot of CBS shows, the San Francisco station is O&O, and we don't have access to OTA.

What I did for a week in my ratings thread is comment on whether what we recorded and viewed was available for streaming _without a subscription to cable or satellite_ and it turns out that everything but the HBO and Showtime shows could be viewed from the network sites (or subscriptions to CBS All Access, HULU+, Netflix, or Amazon). In 2015 HBO will have an online subscription and it was intimated that Showtime will be following suit.

I have speculated that something was going to push me to switch to streaming. It would be interesting during the dispute to try out the CBS All Access because, as I understand it, it does give you access to live local station programming (see this article). We can with our Amazon tablets or phones or our Surface Pro 2's use Miracast to "project" the programming onto our old 2003 Pany Plasma or our 2013 Samsung TV.

I don't know how close I am to shifting to all streaming. Our redwood trees are slowly but surely going to force us from satellite. I really would prefer timely access to AMC and TNT shows, for instance, which now aren't offered through their web sites without a cable/satellite provider subscription. However, current episodes from shows like "Walking Dead" are available for $2.00 per episode at Amazon. Within a year I suspect there will be many networks available through subscription online.

After 26 years with Echostar C-band/Dish Network equipment, it would be a difficult change. The irony here is I wouldn't actually be cutting a cord, but using one for TV the first time in a quarter of a century.

I say all this because in the end, these disputes are going to align with the rest of the home entertainment shift contributing to what is called "cutting the cord."


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Fortunately in the NW both Seattle and Portland CBS stations are not O&O, so for this time we are not included. But we were with Fisher ABC back a few years ago and Dish lost both KATU Portland and KOMO Seattle for 6 months! Fortunately I get KATU ABC OTA also is SD analog, but many did not. I hope Dish and CBS settle before the D date.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

comizzou573 said:


> Just like dish primetime anytime is bull****, I look at primetime meaning being able to watch all 3 east coast, midwest, and west coast shows. Not recording nonsense shows off your local network affiliates. Yes primetime anytime works for people who live on the east coast. Primetime is being able to watch wheel of fortune live for example at east coast time, not a precorded feed.


Don't worry...Primetime Anytime without commercials will be gone from CBS as it is for ABC now (at least for 72 hours) when this contract is finally signed.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

nmetro said:


> One reason why I added OTA ability is to at least get supposed "free television" when these disputes occur.
> 
> While I understand Turner, Viacom, et. al., whose existence more or less is based on a large subscriber base, OTA TV stations broadcast on publicly owned airways. While their content is copyrighted, they agreed many years ago that they would not charge a fee for Americans to receive their signals. Our so called "representative" in Congress changed this paradigm by heavy lobbying of broadcasters. In the early days of cable broadcasters were paying to get on cable. Why? Because they get get their signal much further, for example, from new York City to Montauk Point (120 miles to the east). Where I grew up, on Long Island, it was hard to get New York City stations even 50 miles way, because the tall building, in Manhattan, affected the signal. A good roof antenna or cable was a must.
> 
> ...


$10 in 1968 dollars is the same as $68.40 in 2014 dollars, so actually, very little has changed - except more choice.

And I'd love your "source" for claiming OTA TV Stations agreed not to charge a fee many years ago. In fact, in the early 80s, several UHFs scrambled their signal to provide in essence an OTA Movie Channel to subscribers. This was also tried in the last 10 years with the subchannels in several markets as an OTA cable provider (Phoenix was one of the markets iirc).

Furthermore, Stations never paid to get on cable systems. They were covered by must carry requirements.

As thus, would be nice to see sources for all these claims that were "promised many years ago"


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

phrelin said:


> Hmmm. Well we watch a lot of CBS shows, the San Francisco station is O&O, and we don't have access to OTA.
> 
> What I did for a week in my ratings thread is comment on whether what we recorded and viewed was available for streaming _without a subscription to cable or satellite_ and it turns out that everything but the HBO and Showtime shows could be viewed from the network sites (or subscriptions to CBS All Access, HULU+, Netflix, or Amazon). In 2015 HBO will have an online subscription and it was intimated that Showtime will be following suit.
> 
> ...


Hope you have deep pockets (also remember Football is not available with CBS All Access)

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/picture/la-carte-and-sticker-shock/385088


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Hope you have deep pockets (also remember Football is not available with CBS All Access)
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/blog/picture/la-carte-and-sticker-shock/385088


Well, right at the moment I'm paying Dish $117.10 and if I was willing to pay for the BBCA tier I'd be paying $15 more. I am, of course, paying for ESPN which I don't want and I don't care about sports. I would prefer it if CBS didn't add the cost of sports to the All Access and let sports fans buy streaming sports from the various leagues or ESPN streaming.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

phrelin said:


> Well, right at the moment I'm paying Dish $117.10 and if I was willing to pay for the BBCA tier I'd be paying $15 more. I am, of course, paying for ESPN which I don't want and I don't care about sports. I would prefer it if CBS didn't add the cost of sports to the All Access and let sports fans buy streaming sports from the various leagues or ESPN streaming.


The $117.10 includes the cost of DVRs, multiple locations and such. Do not forget that with online only 1 person can use the account (unless set up for family access) at a time - and we have not seen what many of these services will charge for multi-user (if even offered).


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> The $117.10 includes the cost of DVRs, multiple locations and such. Do not forget that with online only 1 person can use the account (unless set up for family access) at a time - and we have not seen what many of these services will charge for multi-user (if even offered).


I have a very narrow point of view, my own. There's only two of us, we watch TV together. For that, we have all the equipment we need and could easily watch TV in the two locations where we have TV's or directly on our tablets 300 miles away in the doctor's office in Sacramento through the wifi Xfinity Hotspot.

As I said, after over a quarter of a century as an Echostar C-band/Dish Network customer I'm not in any hurry. But "cutting the cord" would work for us for most of what we watch and likely it would be cheaper for us. And we would be using equipment we already have.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Don't worry...Primetime Anytime without commercials will be gone from CBS as it is for ABC now (at least for 72 hours) when this contract is finally signed.


I still have "AutoHop" on all ABC programs ... but my local ABC is an affiliate not an O&O. I suspect that any deal CBS makes will also only affect their O&Os.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> And I'd love your "source" for claiming OTA TV Stations agreed not to charge a fee many years ago.


I do not know about many years ago, but current FCC rules require each OTA station to have at least one unscrambled content feed. That does not mean it has to be their best feed ... technically they could offer free SD and subscriber only HD. Or free infomercials and subscriber only network content.

The realities of the marketplace make such schemes not cost effective. Developing, distributing and maintaining descrambling devices is a expense that would need to be covered by subscribers ... plus profit. With other TV sources with many more channels available, scrambled DTV just didn't win.

As far as the "pay for carriage" ... it is currently illegal for an OTA station to pay a carrier for carriage or preferred channel positioning on a system. The OTA station must deliver a usable signal to the headend/point-of-presence and may be charged for getting that signal to the system - but an OTA cannot pay for carriage.

"Many years ago ..." that is a different world.


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## cheech13269 (May 29, 2013)

shadough said:


> SO does anyone know if this contract is with CBS, an its subsequent Owned an Operated affiliates (O&O)? Or does it include ALL CBS affiliates, even those owned by other Media/Communications companies?
> 
> I would think it applies only to O&O, but thought I'd ask a


The dispute will only be with the CBS OWNED stations NOT AFFILIATES. So if you live in one of the owned CBS markets, New York, Los Angeles, Dallas etc. YOU WILL BE AFFECTED.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> I do not know about many years ago, but current FCC rules require each OTA station to have at least one unscrambled content feed. That does not mean it has to be their best feed ... technically they could offer free SD and subscriber only HD. Or free infomercials and subscriber only network content.
> 
> The realities of the marketplace make such schemes not cost effective. Developing, distributing and maintaining descrambling devices is a expense that would need to be covered by subscribers ... plus profit. With other TV sources with many more channels available, scrambled DTV just didn't win.
> 
> ...


The one unscrambled channel was in exchange for approving digital instead of Analog, which was not "Many Years Ago", as the OP frames it.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> I still have "AutoHop" on all ABC programs ... but my local ABC is an affiliate not an O&O. I suspect that any deal CBS makes will also only affect their O&Os.


The agreement was Autohop would only work after 3 days (Ratings are now C-3) on ABC. Unfortunately for ABC, some are now pushing for (C-7).


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> The agreement was Autohop would only work after 3 days (Ratings are now C-3) on ABC.


Like James pointed out this obviously only affects O&O abc stations. I live in a different DMA than him and I also get Autohop service next day on my abc programs.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Since I don't have a Hopper, I was wondering if in the ABC O&O DMA's can you record the local ABC station programming on one of the other receivers and watch it the next day all the while using the Autohop for the other networks?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

phrelin said:


> Since I don't have a Hopper, I was wondering if in the ABC O&O DMA's can you record the local ABC station programming on one of the other receivers and watch it the next day all the while using the Autohop for the other networks?


I'm not sure what your question means... so I'll give a larger answer.

Primetime anytime still records all the networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) every night just as it did before. The new ABC agreement just delays the commercial-skip feature for 3 days on the ABC recordings.

There would be no need to record ABC on a different receiver since you already have it on your Hopper... and if you're going to skip commercials manually, there would be no difference in watching the Hopper recording.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm not sure what your question means... so I'll give a larger answer.
> 
> Primetime anytime still records all the networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) every night just as it did before. The new ABC agreement just delays the commercial-skip feature for 3 days on the ABC recordings.
> 
> There would be no need to record ABC on a different receiver since you already have it on your Hopper... and if you're going to skip commercials manually, there would be no difference in watching the Hopper recording.


Sorry, my question was unclear. Could I record the ABC on a different receiver and watch it the next day as opposed to the Autohop copy which I have to wait for?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

CBS CEO Les Moonves fired back at Charlie:



> Moonves also fired a warning shot at Dish Network Chairman Charlie Ergen, who recently dropped Turner Broadcasting channels except TNT and TBS in a contract dispute. Dish's deal with CBS is up soon and "we're determined to get paid fair value for our programs," Moonves says. "As you know by now, we know how to get this done. And rest assured that we will."


He did this in the same quarterly earnings news cycle he made another announcement I posted here CBS Teams With Sony Streaming & Unveils Online News in which he said in part:



> The network joins its corporate cousin Viacom in agreeing to provide programming for Sony's planned linear TV streaming service. As a newcomer, it will pay "higher subscription fees than what we've ever been paid before," CEO Les Moonves told analysts in a conference call to discuss Q3 earnings. He adds that Sony and other broadband services "will help expand the universe of opportunities for companies like CBS that make the best programming.&#8230; More deals along these lines are coming soon."


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Sorry, my question was unclear. Could I record the ABC on a different receiver and watch it the next day as opposed to the Autohop copy which I have to wait for?


You can record and watch programs as soon as you want on any receiver (even starting from the beginning before the recording is finished). The recording will act like any normal DVR recording from ESPN or Discovery Channel ... you can use all the playback features including manually skipping commercials. And you can do that on ANY DVR, including the Hopper/Joey system.

The only limitation is on the autohop feature. What is missing until the third day only in O&O markets is the Hopper's ability to skip commercials automatically.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The only limitation is on the autohop feature. What is missing until the third day only in O&O markets is the Hopper's ability to skip commercials automatically.


Thanks. Now I get what they are doing - making you watch commercials during the live+3-day period just as they do if you stream it online from the ABC website. From an economic standpoint that likely is worth money to ABC. It could be worth something to CBS also.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Thanks. Now I get what they are doing - making you watch commercials during the live+3-day period just as they do if you stream it online from the ABC website. From an economic standpoint that likely is worth money to ABC. It could be worth something to CBS also.


One can still skip commercials ... one just has to do it the old fashioned way, pressing the skip fwd button for each 30 seconds one wants to skip, then the skip back if one goes too far.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Exactly... it just stops the AutoHop feature for 3 days... customers can record and skip past commercials the manual way OR just ignore the commercials and go to the bathroom or something.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

cheech13269 said:


> The dispute will only be with the CBS OWNED stations NOT AFFILIATES. So if you live in one of the owned CBS markets, New York, Los Angeles, Dallas etc. YOU WILL BE AFFECTED.


Hi
I live in the NYC market, I would be a little impacted in that I would have to either watch live in HD or record it in Glorious DVD resolution.

I have Basic Cable too and can watch it on all the TV sets or record it on my Magnavox DVD recorder with Hard Disk Drive. So what I would do is set up a Timer for each show and title it in the timer and record it to the Hard Disk Drive. Then when I watch it in WS format where I can use the Forward or reverse skip in the DVD recorder to skip through the commercials. FWIW the video looks pretty good as it is recorded from the HD channel feed and captured in 720 by 480 resolution. I'd rather take the minimal hit in quality vs watch the commercials.

The Only time that strategy fails is if both the satellite company and the Cable company have a dispute going for the same channel at the same time.

I already missed some of the CBS shows as they were not recorded in their entirety due to sports on Sunday this year, same as last year. Oh well, the way I look at it, it they wanted me to watch the show then they would start it at the right time.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

TBoneit said:


> Hi
> I live in the NYC market, I would be a little impacted in that I would have to either watch live in HD or record it in Glorious DVD resolution.
> 
> I have Basic Cable too and can watch it on all the TV sets or record it on my Magnavox DVD recorder with Hard Disk Drive. So what I would do is set up a Timer for each show and title it in the timer and record it to the Hard Disk Drive. Then when I watch it in WS format where I can use the Forward or reverse skip in the DVD recorder to skip through the commercials. FWIW the video looks pretty good as it is recorded from the HD channel feed and captured in 720 by 480 resolution. I'd rather take the minimal hit in quality vs watch the commercials.
> ...


Yup, they repeatedly butchered the good wife with the back up from sports.

I do not understand why a station would intentionally sabotage it's own programming this way. Why not reruns after sports that don't matter, and schedule the good programming on another day?
I think this killed a lot of interest in decent programming. People are tired of recording half a show, or constantly checking back to catch a particular program. What is CBS thinking?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Found the following from Reuters that back on the 6th that says Les Moonves thinks talks with Dish are "making progress". Actually the tone of this report makes it seem things were going fairly amicably at least at that point.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/06/cbs-corp-dish-network-contract-idUSL1N0SW18520141106


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Athlon646464 said:


> *Dish far apart on contract with CBS as deadline nears*
> 
> (Reuters.com) - CBS Corp and Dish Network Corp are far apart on talks for a new distribution deal, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations, setting up the possibility that the satellite provider's subscribers could lose access to the most-watched U.S. TV network next month....
> 
> Full Story Here


I don't watch any network at all due to the fact that I go to bed at 7PM because I have Cerebral Palsy. Network TV hasn't has a hit since the 90's.Good luck.


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

Can I assume that if my CW channel is CBS-owned, I will lose that, too?


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

tsmacro said:


> Found the following from Reuters that back on the 6th that says Les Moonves thinks talks with Dish are "making progress". Actually the tone of this report makes it seem things were going fairly amicably at least at that point.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/06/cbs-corp-dish-network-contract-idUSL1N0SW18520141106


Looks like Moonves is making Ergen an offer he can't refuse...

From last Monday

******************************
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/leslie-moonves-discusses-dish-carriage-747777

"As I said to Charlie Ergen &#8230; 'Your people won't be very happy with the Denver Broncos not on the air [on] Sunday,' " Moonves said (Dish is based in Colorado), adding, "There would be a lot of heat for not having CBS programs on."
Last week, Moonves had said about the Dish talks: "The end of our current deal is approaching soon, and we're determined to get paid fair value for our programming. As you know by now, we know how to get this done, and rest assured, we will."

******************************

A couple of years ago, Moonves was targeting 2 dollars a month for CBS by 2017. Based on recent statements, he may want 3 dollars a month by 2019.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

satcrazy said:


> Yup, they repeatedly butchered the good wife with the back up from sports.
> 
> I do not understand why a station would intentionally sabotage it's own programming this way. Why not reruns after sports that don't matter, and schedule the good programming on another day?
> I think this killed a lot of interest in decent programming. People are tired of recording half a show, or constantly checking back to catch a particular program. What is CBS thinking?


Hi
Good Point. Since the shows can't get good ratings why not do reruns after sports. I can only guess they are tired of those shows and hope this kills the ratings. I know I am not setting a 4 hour timer just to catch a 1 hour show that actually runs about 43 minutes.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> A couple of years ago, Moonves was targeting 2 dollars a month for CBS by 2017. Based on recent statements, he may want 3 dollars a month by 2019.


Wow. So if CBS is an "average" station, then AT120 would have $360 in retransmission fees on top of their other costs. If CBS is twice as good as an average station, then it would _only_ be $180 in fees.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

But, it is probably cheaper than what Turner wants for CNN. So far, that has not been revealed.

Considering CBS will be offering streaming for $5 a month, one has to think they will want to come closer to that price fro cable and satellite. Even though, it is free to air, at least for now.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

nmetro said:


> Considering CBS will be offering streaming for $5 a month, one has to think they will want to come closer to that price fro cable and satellite. Even though, it is free to air, at least for now.


It is being offered for $5.99 per month in select areas. I tried it on their one week free offer. It works, it's OK, but it is still pay TV with ads.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Are you saying it has all the same ads for $5.99 that the come in the OTA version???


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Looks like Moonves is making Ergen an offer he can't refuse...
> 
> From last Monday
> 
> ...


sounds more aggressive than friendly.

not everybody is worried about the broncos.

sunday night was the only cbs programming I followed, {60 min. and the goodwife,] and football screwed that up, so I lost interest.

Not really worth the extra $, but then, I have an antenna in my attic, so I can take it or leave it. Too bad everyone doesn't have the antenna option.
What would the locals do then?


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

Orion9 said:


> Are you saying it has all the same ads for $5.99 that the come in the OTA version???


I didn't try to make a detail comparison, but it appears that it does. I live on the Eastern Shore of MD, which puts me in the Baltimore DMA, so what I see is a streaming version of Channel 13. Ironically, it is easier for me to get to Philadelphia, than Baltimore.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Info channels for CBS O&Os?

*Changes seen 11/14/14 at 7:41pm ET (v04)*

*Channels Now Available*
6218 DISH (3 Local) DISH Info Channel New York, NY market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6215 DISH (6 Local) DISH Info Channel Los Angeles, CA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6210 DISH (3 Local) DISH Info Channel Chicago, IL market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6209 DISH (3 Local) DISH Info Channel Boston, MA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6211 DISH (12 Local) DISH Info Channel Dallas, TX market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6216 DISH (5 Local) DISH Info Channel Miami, FL market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6224 DISH (6 Local) DISH Info Channel San Fransisco, CA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6212 DISH (5 Local) DISH Info Channel Denver, CO market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6222 DISH (3 Local) DISH Info Channel Pittsburgh, PA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6217 DISH (3 Local) DISH Info Channel Minneapolis/St Paul, MN market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6213 DISH (63 Local) DISH Info Channel Detroit, MI market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6225 DISH (12 Local) DISH Info Channel Seattle, WA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6219 DISH (5 Local) DISH Info Channel Philadelphia, PA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6226 DISH (45 Local) DISH Info Channel Tampa, FL market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6223 DISH (14 Local) DISH Info Channel Sacramento, CA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6207 DISH (70 Local) DISH Info Channel Atlanta, GA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6208 DISH (14 Local) DISH Info Channel Baltimore, MD market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
6214 DISH (20 Local) DISH Info Channel Johnstown/Altoona, PA market Hidden - *AVAILABLE*

(All channels above fed from 110° TP 10 and 72.7° TP 29.)


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

James Long said:


> Info channels for CBS O&Os?
> 
> *Changes seen 11/14/14 at 7:41pm ET (v04)*
> 
> ...


Yes... I am in chicago and it is a Blue Slate channel. Info for channels says "CBS Corp Threatens Channel removal. WBBM is threatening to block access to CBS 2. For more info, visit DishIsOnYourSide.com or call Marty Wilke at 312-899-2222"


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Same here for KCNC, in Denver. More corporate greed. f this happens, then 8 channels I am paying for, that I will not get via satellite. Turner being the other seven.

The FCC should force compensation when subscribers are caught in the middle of these disputes. Subscribers should be paid 50% each from the satellite/cable provider and the programmer provider. The fine should be a per diem credit fro each channel blocked. Maybe these disputes would be less frequent, if they had to pay penalties to subscribers.

We know this will never happen. But, what will happen si more and more subscribers dumping cable and satellite; for OTA and streaming alternatives. Corporate greed is helping them dig their own graves.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

From Deadline Hollywood:

*CBS Warns That Its Stations Might Go Dark On Dish Network*


> Here we go: CBS introduced a web site today warning Dish Network customers that when its carriage deal expires this month the No. 2 satellite company "may drop" the network-owned stations in 14 cities including Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, Detroit. "While CBS has been able to reach agreement with all other major carriers of our stations, we are finding it difficult to reach agreement with Dish, which is why we felt it necessary to alert Dish subscribers in our stations' markets that they may soon not have access to view our programming," the company says.


FULL ARTICLE HERE

The site is http://keepcbs.com/ , but if you add cbssacramento or cbsnewyork, it will add the local station name. THe affected stations are:

KCAL-TV/Los Angeles
KCNC-TV/Denver
KDKA-TV/Pittsburgh
KOVR-TV/Sacramento
KPIX-TV/San Francisco
KTVT-TV/Dallas
KYW-TV/Philadelphia
WBBM-TV/Chicago
WBZ-TV/Boston
WCBS-TV/New York
WCCO/Minneapolis
WFOR-TV/Miami
WJZ-TV/Baltimore
WWJ-TV/Detroit


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

will KTXA in Dallas also get pulled as well as KTVT due to being sister stations in the DFW area owned by CBS.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

The Turner networks are noticing anywhere from a 15-20% drop in their ratings since they went dark on Dish. Since CBS is supposed to live on advertising revenue, they'd lose rating AND ad revenue dollars if Charlie sticks to his guns.

At some point, the content providers have to realize it's not a bottomless well. Besides, HDTV antennas don't have the same kinds of problems that old 'rabbit ears' had. There's no ghosting from signal multi-pathing, etc. I should pick up an indoor antenna and hook it up to my hopper just to see what I can get.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

I was surprised that KTVT was owned by CBS, when I lived in the DFW area it was an independent station owned by interests in Fort Worth (Fort Worth Star Telegram?). Anyway, KTXA is most likely not affected. By the way, if you live anywhere within 50 miles of Cedar Hill, you can get every Dallas/Fort Worth TV station, which is transmitted from there; OTA. 2, 4, 5, 8, 11, 13, 21, 27, 33, 39, 52 came in with no problem in Lake Highlands. 23 was iffy, even though it came from Garland. I left, in the early 1990s, so I cannot speak about newer stations. By the way, I received OTA with powered rabbit ears. So, a powered, amplified flat antenna should work should a dispute ensue.



Willh said:


> will KTXA in Dallas also get pulled as well as KTVT due to being sister stations in the DFW area owned by CBS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

djlong said:


> The Turner networks are noticing anywhere from a 15-20% drop in their ratings since they went dark on Dish. Since CBS is supposed to live on advertising revenue, they'd lose rating AND ad revenue dollars if Charlie sticks to his guns.


I seem to remember CBS being off of DISH for a couple of weeks a few years ago. It seems to be the only way to get things done with some content providers.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

djlong said:


> I should pick up an indoor antenna and hook it up to my hopper just to see what I can get.


Or you could go to this site; http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29, enter your address and see what you'll pick up before you make that investment.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I've seen those charts. They seem to be optimistic for my address - but the last time I tried one was MANY years ago. Besides, I can always buy an antenna, try it and return it if it doesn't pick up much.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Hi
I missed it if it was posted, but what date mightthis happen, I need to set up timers on the DVD Recorder in advance.

Thanks
TBoneit


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Plan on some time next month. I have not seen a date either. But the CBS CEOs comment that Denver subscriber will be upset when they can see the Broncos, indicates it would happen during football season.



TBoneit said:


> Hi
> I missed it if it was posted, but what date mightthis happen, I need to set up timers on the DVD Recorder in advance.
> 
> Thanks
> TBoneit


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Found this:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-cbs-dish-carriage-negotiations-20141114-story.html

KCBS (LA) could go Thursday. So, could the other CBS owned and operating stations.

This, coupled with Turner, could have a lot of people pounding DISH.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Thank You nmetro
That answers my Question. I am guessing that it means midnight Thursday. That means I have nothing at risk until Monday with NCIS LA and then NCIS & NCIS New orleans. I am not watching as much CBS as I used too.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## greencat (Aug 9, 2007)

Maybe a dumb question - can the hopper record ota?


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## BobCulp (Dec 21, 2013)

Here we go: CBS introduced a web site today warning Dish Network customers that when its carriage deal expires this month the No. 2 satellite company "may drop" the network-owned stations in 14 cities including Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, Detroit. "While CBS has been able to reach agreement with all other major carriers of our stations, we are finding it difficult to reach agreement with Dish, which is why we felt it necessary to alert Dish subscribers in our stations' markets that they may soon not have access to view our programming," the company says.

From lead article at this link... http://deadline.com/tag/dish-network/


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

greencat said:


> Maybe a dumb question - can the hopper record ota?


Yes. You would need the OTA module (USB) and decent OTA reception.

During a dispute DISH does not provide EPG for the OTA channel so you would end up with recordings that would not have the correct show names. You would need to set recordings based on time, not name.


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## jerry downing (Mar 7, 2004)

satcrazy said:


> Yup, they repeatedly butchered the good wife with the back up from sports.
> 
> I do not understand why a station would intentionally sabotage it's own programming this way. Why not reruns after sports that don't matter, and schedule the good programming on another day?
> I think this killed a lot of interest in decent programming. People are tired of recording half a show, or constantly checking back to catch a particular program. What is CBS thinking?


The NFL could fix this by enforcing "Delay of Game" penalties after touchdowns, field goals, turnovers, punt returns, and kickoff returns the way they do after most plays. The only exception would be in the event of an injury, a timeout, or a challenge. It is ridiculous to see players stand around for several minutes before kicking off after a score and then several more minutes until the opposing teams first snap. Enforcement of these rules will shave at least twenty minutes off a game.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

jerry downing said:


> The NFL could fix this by enforcing "Delay of Game" penalties after touchdowns, field goals, turnovers, punt returns, and kickoff returns the way they do after most plays. The only exception would be in the event of an injury, a timeout, or a challenge. It is ridiculous to see players stand around for several minutes before kicking off after a score and then several more minutes until the opposing teams first snap. Enforcement of these rules will shave at least twenty minutes off a game.


IMO
Follow the money, Advertising us more important than the programs to the distribution chain.
The NFL and the other leagues could also not have time for the advertisements figured in. Look at NASCAR, do they stop the race for commercials, No they keep racing. And if something happens during the commercial time it gets replayed. Other Sports could do the same thing.

I just consider CBS Sundays as where they put a show that they want to kill but due to ratings they need to lower those first.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jerry downing said:


> The NFL could fix this by enforcing "Delay of Game" penalties after touchdowns, field goals, turnovers, punt returns, and kickoff returns the way they do after most plays. The only exception would be in the event of an injury, a timeout, or a challenge. It is ridiculous to see players stand around for several minutes before kicking off after a score and then several more minutes until the opposing teams first snap. Enforcement of these rules will shave at least twenty minutes off a game.


Actually... those aren't the problem... it's all the commercial breaks after scores and end of quarters that take up that time. Meanwhile, the enforcement and explanation of penalties adds a LOT of time to most games. The quickest games tend to be the most cleanly played ones... watch a game with relatively few penalties called vs one with a LOT of game/clock stoppage to enforce penalties. Your proposal of enforcing/adding more penalties would actually lengthen the game quite a bit.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

The Chicago CBS has been showing the anti-DISH ads all night


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

CBS also owns KSTW 11 Seattle (CW). $2 a sub for CBS is way too much for an OTA station with plenty of ads. I totally agree with Dish. These rates that the programmers are demanding is nuts. You know, in many of these cases, if Dish or Direct do not carry the channels, the programmer ratings drop. I guess that really does not matter to them. The issue between satellite/cable companies and the programmers are much like our own Congress. None of the above gets along. We, the consumer gets the end results. Even though I do not care all that much about the Turner channels, the war gets old. We really need something like a public utility commissioner as a go-between.


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## Jaspear (May 16, 2004)

BobCulp said:


> Here we go: CBS introduced a web site today warning Dish Network customers that when its carriage deal expires this month the No. 2 satellite company "may drop" the network-owned stations in 14 cities......


The CBS site also mentions in the FAQ, that "You may also lose the ability to watch programming on Showtime and CBS Sports Network." CBS did this last year in a similar dispute with Time Warner. If they do this with Dish, all subscribers nationally will lose access to Showtime and CBSSN.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

So, what's next, Viacom?

So, imagine if Viacom, Turner (with TBS and TNT), CBS, Showtime, CBSSN all end up being pulled at once from DISH?

http://deadline.com/2014/11/turner-warn-tnt-tbs-blackout-dish-network-1201288316/ (TNT and TBS could go on 5 December).



Jaspear said:


> The CBS site also mentions in the FAQ, that "You may also lose the ability to watch programming on Showtime and CBS Sports Network." CBS did this last year in a similar dispute with Time Warner. If they do this with Dish, all subscribers nationally will lose access to Showtime and CBSSN.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

What channels are associated with VIAcom?

What IF they were all pulled?

Life as you know it would not come to an end, LOL.

Just give us better SUBS than MGM, please. That channel is lame.

CBS, Wbep and NBC in my city is off air and showing the Dish retort to the problem.

Right now I have other channels to watch, and if becomes an issue [ ?] I have a OTA Antenna.

There isn't all that much offered on National TV that is critical [ to me] Seems they have cornered the market on REALITY TV, not my cup of tea at all.
Not worth the $.


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## joetex (Mar 29, 2007)

Picked up an OTA antenna and can get CBS fine so we are set if the channel gets pulled. Did not like spending the money on one but I have a feeling that these disputes may happen with more frequency so we looked at it as an investment. Plus it will give us an option if the dish gets covered with snow or we otherwise lose the signal due to inclement weather. Hope Dish and Charlie hang tough.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Depending on your market, your investment may pick up a number of sub-channels besides CBS.

By the way, a powered, amplified indoor antenna does best, if you can't do roof or attic installation.

It won;t be long when FOX or NBC or ABC plays the pays us ransom or you don't get the channel.



joetex said:


> Picked up an OTA antenna and can get CBS fine so we are set if the channel gets pulled. Did not like spending the money on one but I have a feeling that these disputes may happen with more frequency so we looked at it as an investment. Plus it will give us an option if the dish gets covered with snow or we otherwise lose the signal due to inclement weather. Hope Dish and Charlie hang tough.


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## joetex (Mar 29, 2007)

We actually did get an indoor amplified antenna. The channels that we get depend on how in the room we position it. Two sub channels show some older movies. One shows real time traffic. Not too bad to have a few extra channels.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

The higher you place the antenna, and directing it towards your transmitter, the more channels you can get.

RabbitEars Info at http://www.rabbitears.info provides a wealth of information.

This will provide a listing of all sub channels for your market: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php
Click on the channel to see each sub channel or click on "Expand/Contract All" to see all the main and sub channels.

This site also provides station signal contour maps, transmitter sites, etc.

This web site is constantly being updated.



joetex said:


> We actually did get an indoor amplified antenna. The channels that we get depend on how in the room we position it. Two sub channels show some older movies. One shows real time traffic. Not too bad to have a few extra channels.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## joetex (Mar 29, 2007)

Never knew about rabbit ears.com. Cool site. This info is one of the good things to come out of the CBS-Dish squabble. Thanks again.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## joetex (Mar 29, 2007)

Meant to say rabbit ears.info


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

nmetro said:


> So, what's next, Viacom?
> 
> So, imagine if Viacom, Turner (with TBS and TNT), CBS, Showtime, CBSSN all end up being pulled at once from DISH?
> 
> http://deadline.com/2014/11/turner-warn-tnt-tbs-blackout-dish-network-1201288316/ (TNT and TBS could go on 5 December).


Nonsense.

Viacom is now a different company with a totally Management and a different agreement. They spun off CBS from Viacom around 10+ years ago.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Dish CEO Joe Clayton said during the Nov 4th earnings call the loss of the eight Turner channels wasn't having much of an impact on its subscriber base, but that could change if TNT and TBS go dark as well.

"TNT and TBS would cause a major hiccup,"

Dish chairman Charlie Ergen on the same call said while losing the additional Turner channels would most likely have a negative impact on subscriber growth

The CFO commented last week at an investors conference Dish could NOT live without CBS, TNT or TBS.

Imagine going into a War where you have already announced you are going to lose?!?! Great Strategy!!!!!

Dick Parsons (former Chairman of Time Warner) was interviewed on Bloomberg Monday afternoon and said to look at how TWC had their head handed to them during a 30 day CBS blackout. And that Charlie was going to lose this one.

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2014-11-18/dick-parsons-charlie-ergen-is-going-to-lose-cbs-fight


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

In business one must negotiate from a position of strength. Unfortunately for DISH there are several contracts up for negotiating in too short a span of time. And as SomeRandomIdiot mentioned tipping your hand while negotiating is not a very good idea. In this situation DISH doesn't have a position of strength. The channels that have already gone dark are a nuisance. Losing TNT and TBS would be very painful. Losing CBS and Showtime would be a catastrophe. Yesterday there was a commercial from Showtime warning DISH subscribers of the possibility of losing that channel. It appears the content providers smell blood and are out for the kill.


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

In most of the country, the video quality you'll see off-air greatly trumps the recompressed and bandwidth-limited version of your local channels DISH provides.


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> In business one must negotiate from a position of strength. Unfortunately for DISH there are several contracts up for negotiating in too short a span of time. And as SomeRandomIdiot mentioned tipping your hand while negotiating is not a very good idea. In this situation DISH doesn't have a position of strength. The channels that have already gone dark are a nuisance. Losing TNT and TBS would be very painful. Losing CBS and Showtime would be a catastrophe. Yesterday there was a commercial from Showtime warning DISH subscribers of the possibility of losing that channel. It appears the content providers smell blood and are out for the kill.


80% of Dish's market cap is the spectrum at holds. Over the last week, thanks to higher than expected bids for a government spectrum auction, the market has increased the implied value of Dish's spectrum. Dish's stock price has increased from 65 to 72, more than 10%, over the last week.

Upshot? Content providers may not have the leverage they believe.


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

MysteryMan said:


> In business one must negotiate from a position of strength. Unfortunately for DISH there are several contracts up for negotiating in too short a span of time. And as SomeRandomIdiot mentioned tipping your hand while negotiating is not a very good idea. In this situation DISH doesn't have a position of strength. The channels that have already gone dark are a nuisance. Losing TNT and TBS would be very painful. Losing CBS and Showtime would be a catastrophe. Yesterday there was a commercial from Showtime warning DISH subscribers of the possibility of losing that channel. It appears the content providers smell blood and are out for the kill.


It would not be a catastrophe. People don't drop their providers at the first sign of trouble, and will accept the loss of CBS, TNT and TBS for at least a few weeks before they even think about switching.

Many people are still in contract, and are facing a big ETF to switch. Switching is also cumbersome: You will lose access to all your recorded shows on the DVR and will have to learn new equipment, a new channel lineup, and you may have to give up other channels that the competitor doesn't have. (DirecTV is in dispute with AMC for instance). On top of that you will need to take a day off to get the installer in the house.

On top of that, the amount of money they SAVE is enourmous. It's likely that the contract for all Turner channels and CBS channels equals somewhere between $3 and $4 in total (including TNT/TBS, etc), which means they could save at least $30 million dollars in a month, estimating it very low. ($3 x 14 million customers = $42 million). They could lose customers for sure, but not likely to the amount of $30 million dollars in subscriber losses.

So DISH is actually in a very strong position. TNT and TBS and CBS will have to explain (and refund!) to their commercial customers whey their customers were not aired to 14 million potential customers, as they were promised when they bought commercial time slots.

This is going to be much more costly for the TV stations in question then it will be for Dish. Dish will gain the lost customers when DirecTV has a new dispute, and they have already gained customers last year when CBS was dealing with DirecTV.

So no. It will not be catastrophe. Not at all.

As other examples I would like to give Comcast Sportsnet Houston, which was launched in 2011 but could not secure any deals outside of Comcast, and were forced to declare bankruptcy eventually. They could not get Dish or DirecTV on board. TWC Sportsnet Dodgers is facing similar financial difficulties in Los Angeles because they have NO deals outside of TWC.

These disputes are MUCH harder on the bottom lines of the TV stations then you think. A lot harder then the carriers like Dish and DirecTV. Because the reality is the losses in subscribers vs. the savings in contract money is not affecting Dish's bottom line that much, but the TV stations are having to refund massive amounts of money paid for advertising slots that were promised to 14 million potential customers more then what they are actually getting. (Of course this will be adjusted to the people actually receiving said channels as part of a package and/or their market)


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

More spectrum.

Is all this spectrum control earmarked for streaming?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/dishs-ergen-to-control-lightsquared-in-newly-announced-deal-1415044754


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

satcrazy said:


> More spectrum.
> 
> Is all this spectrum control earmarked for streaming?
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/dishs-ergen-to-control-lightsquared-in-newly-announced-deal-1415044754


Dish hasn't ever done anything with its spectrum. It has proven a good investment, as the value of their spectrum holdings account for the large majority of Dish's market cap. Unlikely satellite spectrum, there is no "use it or lose it" rule with wireless spectrum, so Dish can hold onto it not have to put it to any use. Maybe they use it someday, maybe they sell it, maybe someone buys out/merges with Dish to get it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Dish chairman Charlie Ergen on the same call said while losing the additional Turner channels would most likely have a negative impact on subscriber growth


I believe you have been around long enough that you should have read a few quarterly reports or quotes from them. They are filled with gloom and doom about the worst things that could ever happen to the company. These type of earnings calls are also a forum to answer the question "what is the worst thing that could happen".

What is likely to happen is not as bad ... but if DISH said "no biggie" and were wrong they would get in more trouble than sharing gloom and doom that does not come to pass.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

In the event CBS goes, this OTA indoor antenna is very good:

http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Ultra-Thin-Amplified-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B00DIFIP06

I have the 50 mile flat powered version.

I get 47 main and sub-channels about 40 miles from the Denver (Lookout Mountain about 7000 ft) transmitter site and 15 miles from the Firestone Colorado transmitter site (about 1200'). I have good line of sight to both transmitters. The key to installation, the higher you place it; the better the reception.

Works great with the Hopper OTA USB adapter.

This may not work for everyone, and like anything with Digital TV; you get a signal or you don't. Tress and buildings can obstruct the signal.


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## bluegras (Jan 31, 2008)

looks like a 5 day extension on the talks between dish and cbs so we all hope this will be done soon

http://www.multichannel.com/news/news-articles/cbs-dish-agree-to-extension/385766

allen bluegras


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

And then there is this fro Regional Sports Fans:

http://www.multichannel.com/news/cable-operators/comcast-sportsnet-services-could-go-dark-dish/385759

This link was on teh same page as the CBS announcement in the previous post.

Ridiculous is heading towards insanity.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

The question is how many of Dish's subscribers know enough and are willing to do things like hook up an OTA antenna in conjunction with their Dish receiver? How many of those are going to be happy that they can no longer use their DVR? And of course an OTA antenna does nothing for TNT and TBS.

In our area, a few years ago, the local CBS/Fox owner went through this with Dish (he owns a few stations in a couple of states.) In that case, they went up to midnight of the last day with the "This channel will be gone at midnight tonight." There were a LOT of people who switched before the deadline - it was actually funny, the cable and Directv installer trucks were on every street. They even had an interview on the local news (ABC) with a couple of installers and the installers were talking about how backed up they were. Apparently they had even more installs set up after that midnight deadline than they had in the couple of weeks before, but those mostly canceled when the blackout didn't occur.

I think on a forum like this, we underestimate the lack of sophistication or even energy of the majority of satellite subscribers to look for work arounds. They come home from work, or get up on the weekend, turn on their TV, they just want to watch the shows they like. Period. For many of them, even figuring out how to program the DVR is an accomplishment. And those are also the exact demographic that watch a ton of network shows (e.g. CBS.) If suddenly they lose one of the big 4 networks, especially NBC, CBS, or ABC, that is a MAJOR big deal for them. Add in those who are also losing their NCAA and NFL football on the weekends.

My point being, yeah for a lot of people here, going and getting an HDTV antenna and hooking it up (and BTW - those can be tricky too with today's TVs, I helped my son in law, who does not have cable or satellite, hook one up and it took us a couple of tries to figure out you couldn't just tune in "14" to get NBC, and how to set the scanning to digital, etc.) is an "eh? Who cares, i can still watch CBS, even though I'll need to get a new item to go through my DVR, and even then I'll have to manually set the recordings." I might fart around with that myself if I lost a network, though I wouldn't like it. But it's a big enough deal that if CBS were to be gone for months, I'd switch providers.

I think the screams and lost customers (and lost of new customers who are switching to satellite for the first time) would be much larger than some seem to anticipate.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

I put up an antenna several years ago in anticipation of the "digital transition" for a second bedroom tv. [ In my attic]

The plus was splitting that TV signal and running it down to my main tv as an alternate if Dish lost signal.

Worked out well.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

nmetro said:


> And then there is this fro Regional Sports Fans:
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/news/cable-operators/comcast-sportsnet-services-could-go-dark-dish/385759
> 
> ...


Well, I don't think Dish planned on all these contract disputes at once.

If Ergen settles all these, what do you think your bill will increase to?

I'm tired of all the sport channel increases.

Be it Dish or Direct.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

fudpucker said:


> I think the screams and lost customers (and lost of new customers who are switching to satellite for the first time) would be much larger than some seem to anticipate.


Maybe but ABC was missing here for about 6 months and it didn't appear to be a big deal. We deleted ABC timers and added CBS and NBC timers. It's not like the DVR ever started to empty out. I never heard of anyone changing providers during that event. We did pick up a simple indoor antenna because we were hooked on "Lost". I don't think any of us are hooked enough on any current show to figure out where that antenna is now. The antenna is easy to hook up but it's a little unattractive which is why it got disconnected and stuffed somewhere after that. It is nice to get every channel the same way if possible.

Someone else said, (Perhaps in the Turner thread) that he had looked through churn numbers for years and couldn't find a correlation between churn rates and disputes like these.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

The bill will go up, because that is just the American way. Everyone does it with the crack of New Year, or soon thereafter. Even though inflation is just under 2%, and salaries increasing about 2%; fees usually go up 3% to 10%, unless it is health care than it is 10% to 20%.

So, I expect a $5 increase in February, with or without CBS and the Turner channels). For regional sports; none that i look at is owned by Comcast via a vis NBC Universal.

Happy New Year means profits for someone else and more out of my pocket.



satcrazy said:


> Well, I don't think Dish planned on all these contract disputes at once.
> 
> If Ergen settles all these, what do you think your bill will increase to?
> 
> ...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

maartena said:


> It would not be a catastrophe. People don't drop their providers at the first sign of trouble, and will accept the loss of CBS, TNT and TBS for at least a few weeks before they even think about switching.
> 
> Many people are still in contract, and are facing a big ETF to switch. Switching is also cumbersome: You will lose access to all your recorded shows on the DVR and will have to learn new equipment, a new channel lineup, and you may have to give up other channels that the competitor doesn't have. (DirecTV is in dispute with AMC for instance). On top of that you will need to take a day off to get the installer in the house.
> 
> ...


CBS. I agree with all you say till you get to CBS. The older crowd they attract doesn't and won't go streaming and won't put up with it for very long. Maybe a week at best. They will switch and switch fast. Any other network even NBC Etc I wouldn't say that. But CBS will cause much more loss to dish than the station.

But then I don't expect CBS to ever go off air in all reality.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

satcrazy said:


> Well, I don't think Dish planned on all these contract disputes at once.
> 
> If Ergen settles all these, what do you think your bill will increase to?
> 
> ...


You know alot of the increases have nothing to do with sports. Maybe even most. I'll bet ESPN is asking the least amount of increase for the product it provides compared to any of the big four networks in terms of value and viewership.

My point though isn't that sports isn't a problem it's that everyone is the problem.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

inkahauts said:


> You know alot of the increases have nothing to do with sports. Maybe even most. I'll bet ESPN is asking the least amount of increase for the product it provides compared to any of the big four networks in terms of value and viewership.
> 
> My point though isn't that sports isn't a problem it's that everyone is the problem.


When your main channel is at $6.04 like ESPN, then a 10% increase is 60 cents. CBS is currently at 54 cents on Dish and 60 cents increase would be over 100%.

Yet more people view CBS than ESPN - hands down.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Orion9 said:


> Someone else said, (Perhaps in the Turner thread) that he had looked through churn numbers for years and couldn't find a correlation between churn rates and disputes like these.


There is a major correlation, especially when TWC as well as the former Chairman of TW both said that they got their "head handed to them" over a 30 day CBS Outage.

And Dish has much more exposure to CBS than TWC did (as Dish is Nationwide and TWC only in some of their O&O Markets).

By TV Households, CBS Network O&O are 33% of the USA TV Households - and it rises to over 38% when the other markets with CBS Owned CW Stations and non-CBS affiliates.

TWC was only exposed to CBS O&Os in New York, LA and Dallas, or 13.5% of the USA's TV Households.

Dish has a HUGE exposure.

And there is a big legal question of whether Dish has DNS rights for CBS when the CBS signal disappears, at the end of the November Sweeps. According to the Stella bill, the number of DNS user for Dish and DirecTV combined are 1.5 Million.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Update: **CBS, Dish Network Agree to Short-Term Extension to Avoid Blackout*

(variety.com) - CBS and Dish Network are avoiding a blackout by agreeing to a short-term contract extension Thursday evening while negotiations continue.

The crux of the negotiations involves the expiration of Dish's deal to carry CBS' 29 O&O stations in 17 local markets. The talks have been on and off for months, with CBS recently accusing Dish of dragging its feet in an effort to postpone a deal until after the end of the regular NFL season. The saber-rattling had threatened to lead to a blackout of CBS stations as of Thursday evening, when the carriage pact expired....

Full Story Here


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

maartena said:


> It would not be a catastrophe. People don't drop their providers at the first sign of trouble, and will accept the loss of CBS, TNT and TBS for at least a few weeks before they even think about switching.
> 
> Many people are still in contract, and are facing a big ETF to switch. Switching is also cumbersome: You will lose access to all your recorded shows on the DVR and will have to learn new equipment, a new channel lineup, and you may have to give up other channels that the competitor doesn't have. (DirecTV is in dispute with AMC for instance). On top of that you will need to take a day off to get the installer in the house.
> 
> ...


The channels that already went dark may be mediocre but the same can't be said for TNT, TBS, CBS, and Showtime. Losing them would definitely have a impact. As for those who are still in contract in most cases the competition will pick up their ETF to get them to switch. I get offers from DISH and Time Warner Cable every month asking me to switch and offering to cover any ETF. A lot of people switch service providers for various reasons so learning how to use new equipment and channel lineups isn't as complicated as you make it out to be. Nor does one have to take a day off for a service call. In many areas DirecTV provides service call appointments seven days a week. When it comes to losing recordings on a DVR or losing channels you want people are going to want to keep the later. Add to that a sizable portion of service provider customers don't have a DVR. AMC isn't the heavy hitter it once was so I don't see DirecTV having a major issue negotiating with them. I sincerely wish DISH well in their negotiations with the content providers but the bottom line is they are in shark infested waters.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The problem with consumers... as evidenced in every thread we have ever had...

IF they drop *my* channels they better get them back or else!
IF they drop *your* channels? Too bad, I didn't watch them.

Since we all have different tastes... this results in nobody caring about anything but themselves... which is just how the companies operate... so consumers threaten to leave if they lose their favorite channel... but sports is evil, right? So you don't care if you don't watch it... but you care if you do but I don't!

People were saying losing TCM was a big deal to them while the Turner dispute was going... I never watch that channel... but I didn't say "good riddance"... I recognize that we really are all in this together... we have cheaper TV with more options this way than any other way... so we all get a bunch of channels we like and a bunch we don't... as opposed to whatever the most popular channels that could survive on their own would be.

We all need to recognize and embrace this... the strength in numbers... we like our TV and they need us to spend the money. Some rate increases over time are inevitable too... we all want a raise at our job, but don't want other people to get a raise at theirs?

Dish is "greedy" if they raise rates... but I'm not greedy if I demand to pay less?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

No matter how many channels they drop -the price to the customer will never be reduced


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

That is not true. With the Turner channels gone for a month, I got a $4.50 drop in my bill.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

mwdxer said:


> That is not true. With the Turner channels gone for a month, I got a $4.50 drop in my bill.


By calling and asking? Asking for a discount isn't a perminant drop in price.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I did not call, my current bill just dropped $4.50. I figured it was the loss of the Turner nets.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

There's something wrong there, Id look into it and find out why. You are the only person who has said that and it really has NEVER happened for anyone before for the channels on any service that I have ever seen. Id be worried you where being overcharged and they finally caught it to be honest...


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I have had that happen with the loss of Fisher (KATU) back several years ago. Dish automatically gave us $1 off on our bill and I did not request it either. The $1 discount went away when the Fisher dispute was resolved. But I will keep an eye on the bill next month. My bill is easy with AT250/Supers/Blockbuster only.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes, we got a discount when KATU was off as well. We didn't request it. We got a letter apologizing for the inconvenience and announcing the discount.

This one was so short I wouldn't expect them to bother, but who knows. As someone mentioned in the "Turner networks back on Dish" thread, we get a lot people saying we/they know stuff that we/they don't actually know. Personally $4.50 sounds like a lot for those channels and that time to me but I don't actually know.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

satcrazy said:


> Well, I don't think Dish planned on all these contract disputes at once.


So you don't think Dish read their contracts to know when they ended?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

If we got $1 for KATU. then how many channels did we lose with Turner, CNN, HD, Boomarang, Cartoon Net, etc. So it was probably worth the $4.50. But whatever the case, I am glad they are back, especially TCM.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

mwdxer said:


> I did not call, my current bill just dropped $4.50. I figured it was the loss of the Turner nets.


So Dish saved between $1.00 to $1.50 for the month (not bothering to figure out closer than that) x 15M customers = $15M - $22.5M in savings.

10,000 people complain and get $4.50 credit (but you appear to be the only one) = $45,000 Dish pays in credits.

Who put the extra $14.950M to $22.450M in their pocket - laughing at subs who defended Dish on this forum all the way to the bank.

Need any other reason Charlie loves contract disputes.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

mwdxer said:


> If we got $1 for KATU. then how many channels did we lose with Turner, CNN, HD, Boomarang, Cartoon Net, etc. So it was probably worth the $4.50. But whatever the case, I am glad they are back, especially TCM.


The most comical thing about giving you $1 for KATU is Dish was not paying KATU $1 to begin with.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> So you don't think Dish read their contracts to know when they ended?


I think that they did not expect so many to be troublesome.

TBoneit


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Dish probably felt $1 was fair, as I believe when Dish sold the Supers to new consumers, they were $1 each at one time.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Locals were once $5 for the market and $1 off if a network affiliate went missing in a dispute was common. Even if other channels were opened up as compensation to customers missing the network affiliate.

If it were my bill I'd compare line by line to see where the $4.50 difference is reflected.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I'll see what happens next month with my bill.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

CBS gave Dish a short term extension through the Holidays and until early next week.

Was out early yesterday afternoon.

Expected to see it here when i signed on, but apparently no one here knew or posted.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> CBS gave Dish a short term extension through the Holidays and until early next week.
> 
> Was out early yesterday afternoon.
> 
> Expected to see it here when i signed on, but apparently no one here knew or posted.


See post #108 - Extended again as well (Thanks for the heads up).

*Update: **CBS and Dish Network agree to another contract extension*

(latimes.com) - There will be no CBS station blackout over the long Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

Full Story Here


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

CBS has told Dish it will pull it's channels if they cannot agree to terms by 7PM ET Thursday.

Smart on CBS's part as the NFL Season winds down.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Saw commercials on CBS today during the news.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I signed up for free month of CBS All Access which seems like a great option when one doesn't have OTA.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> CBS has told Dish it will pull it's channels if they cannot agree to terms by 7PM ET Thursday.
> 
> Smart on CBS's part as the NFL Season winds down.


I saw it noted elsewhere (Broadband Reports I think) that this last extension by CBS conveniently gets them past their fall ratings cycle so ad rates going forward are determined by those ratings... instead of having lower ratings due to lost carriage... so you can be sure it wasn't CBS being benign with that last extension if true... just them getting past the ratings season so their bottom line wouldn't be affected as much.

Given the winter repeat season... and NBC has the Super Bowl this year... I could see Dish playing hardball well into January if CBS takes the channels down Thursday.... especially since it only affects the O&O markets, so lots of Dish customers will not even notice these channels being gone anyway.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

No issue here with losing CBS as CBS is not O&O. The only NW station I think owned by CBS in KSTW 11 Seattle (CW). This dispute does not only affect CBS Network O&O stations, if the CW Seattle is included.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I saw it noted elsewhere (Broadband Reports I think) that this last extension by CBS conveniently gets them past their fall ratings cycle so ad rates going forward are determined by those ratings... instead of having lower ratings due to lost carriage... so you can be sure it wasn't CBS being benign with that last extension if true... just them getting past the ratings season so their bottom line wouldn't be affected as much.
> 
> Given the winter repeat season... and NBC has the Super Bowl this year... I could see Dish playing hardball well into January if CBS takes the channels down Thursday.... especially since it only affects the O&O markets, so lots of Dish customers will not even notice these channels being gone anyway.


Actually the ratings ended Wednesday Night (11/24) prior to Thanksgiving.

We'll see how people in Charlie's hometown of Denver like not being able to see the Broncos on TV (or the January Playoffs for that matter).

As noted previously, the CBS O&Os that air CBS Network Programming is 32.75% of the USA TV Households. It goes up to 37.9% when one adds in the CW.

But regardless, while we know that MVPD subs do not track exactly 1:1 and some markets are stronger and some weaker, it is not out of reason to believe that at minimum 25% Dish's subs will notice CBS-TV missing, and others Nationwide will notice Showtime and shows such as Homeland missing.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Of course in cities or metro areas, OTA is viable with an antenna. It is the viewer that is out of town that will have to deal with the loss of a network. When Dish loses an OTA Network, then the viewer should beable to get an out of market station. That is only fair. Then when the issue is resolved, the viewer gets back their network in their DMA. I have a friend in Colton CA, up on a hill, and though he is a good 50 miles from Mt. Wilson, he gets over 100 OTA signals from that location with an antenna. One thing is for sure, the viewer near or in large markets gets the best OTA programming and a lot of choice.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

mwdxer said:


> Of course in cities or metro areas, OTA is viable with an antenna. It is the viewer that is out of town that will have to deal with the loss of a network. When Dish loses an OTA Network, then the viewer should beable to get an out of market station. That is only fair. Then when the issue is resolved, the viewer gets back their network in their DMA. I have a friend in Colton CA, up on a hill, and though he is a good 50 miles from Mt. Wilson, he gets over 100 OTA signals from that location with an antenna. One thing is for sure, the viewer near or in large markets gets the best OTA programming and a lot of choice.


One size does not fit all.

First, there are many areas from Hollywood West through Beverly Hills to Santa Monica to Malibu that cannot get Los Angeles OTA from Mt. Wilson - and there are many more people in that swath than in Colton, CA. And lots of luck getting Denver OTA if you live on the wrong side of the mountain.

Secondly, digital is either there or it isn't, unlike Analog. Multipath ends up killing the Digital Signal in large markets (actually any markets - its just worst in an urban jungle).

The signal in NYC is actually better from 4 Times Square than it is from Empire (less issues), however, Empire gets out further in the fringes (New Jersey, North etc).

Third, Affiliates are franchised - no different than a McDonalds. Just because a franchisee has an agreement to sell McDonalds Burgers in Des Moines, that does not mean they can sell their burgers in Times Square. The affiliate does not have the right to make a deal to sell the franchised programming outside of the areaA they negotiated with the rights holder. That is no different than McDonalds, Taco Bell or any chain/franchisee.

Nowhere in the Constitution is any programming guaranteed as a right. It does not state "life, liberty, and all the programming that is produced".


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Actually, in Denver, there are translators to deal with carriage outside Denver, in both the mountains and the plains. KCNC, the Denver CBS affiliate's market area claims to cover pretty much everything north of the Palmer Divide (High hills between Denver and Colorado Springs), north to near Cheyenne, west to almost Vail and east to almost Kansas. With teh exception of Denver, Colorado Springs and Grand Junction, most of the rest of Colorado is served by translators.

Translators pretty much serve all the other stations too.

However, while Denver TV stations claim they server a vast area, terrain, buildings, trees and weather play a huge role in receiving OTA signals. I am lucky than most what I can receive at my location. I also live at the edge of a city and have clear line of sight.



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> One size does not fit all.
> 
> First, there are many areas from Hollywood West through Beverly Hills to Santa Monica to Malibu that cannot get Los Angeles OTA from Mt. Wilson - and there are many more people in that swath than in Colton, CA. And lots of luck getting Denver OTA if you live on the wrong side of the mountain.
> 
> ...


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Well if the Pull of WCBS, NYC is going ahead I guess I will go through the Guide tonight and set up my Timers to record them in HQ to the Hard Drive of My DVD Recorder. The Quality is very Watchable for being SD DVD resolution.

Hopefully They will blink and settle.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

nmetro said:


> Actually, in Denver, there are translators to deal with carriage outside Denver, in both the mountains and the plains. KCNC, the Denver CBS affiliate's market area claims to cover pretty much everything north of the Palmer Divide (High hills between Denver and Colorado Springs), north to near Cheyenne, west to almost Vail and east to almost Kansas. With teh exception of Denver, Colorado Springs and Grand Junction, most of the rest of Colorado is served by translators.
> 
> Translators pretty much serve all the other stations too.
> 
> However, while Denver TV stations claim they server a vast area, terrain, buildings, trees and weather play a huge role in receiving OTA signals. I am lucky than most what I can receive at my location. I also live at the edge of a city and have clear line of sight.


Considering Paul Maxwell who has run Mediabiz, The Bridge, CATV Newsweekly, CableFAX, CableVision, MultiChannel News during his almost 50 years in the business and lives outside of Denver, often speaks of those not being able to receive OTA if on the wrong side of the Mountain (which he often claims he is), I have to believe him when it comes to what he is talking about.

Just 7 days ago he wrote "And now I can continue to get Denver TV stations on DirecTV (no DISH here, so no worries about losing the Broncos). That's a big deal because I've got the Continental Divide between me and the transmitters. STELAR gives me another legal five years."


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

One problem the OTA stations have in these disputes is... they will argue "Dish is charging you and not paying us so drop Dish and get us for free" except for the areas noted where people have trouble picking up OTA... and then CBS wants to charge you more to stream their content than Dish charges for all the LiLs combined... so it's hard to be on their side here.

The flip side, as I always note, is if CBS wanted to be on a must-carry and not charge anything and then Dish shouldn't charge consumers either... but that ship sailed already so I won't dwell on it.

Bottom line... short term Dish would suffer if compelling TV is on during this time... long term I think CBS would suffer more. History shows us that people adjust once a dispute settles in and there is relatively little change to customers as they adapt to the "new normal" over time.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> One problem the OTA stations have in these disputes is... they will argue "Dish is charging you and not paying us so drop Dish and get us for free" except for the areas noted where people have trouble picking up OTA... and then CBS wants to charge you more to stream their content than Dish charges for all the LiLs combined... so it's hard to be on their side here.
> 
> The flip side, as I always note, is if CBS wanted to be on a must-carry and not charge anything and then Dish shouldn't charge consumers either... but that ship sailed already so I won't dwell on it.
> 
> Bottom line... short term Dish would suffer if compelling TV is on during this time... long term I think CBS would suffer more. History shows us that people adjust once a dispute settles in and there is relatively little change to customers as they adapt to the "new normal" over time.


Actually, CBS has put a price on it's product. $5.99. You can get it personally for free over the air (it's up to do whatever you have to do to get that), a personal subscription for $5.99 on the internet or a group buy through Dish at a discount of $2.00 and Dish makes all their customers takes it. It's very clear.

Considering the Former TW Chairman Dick Parsons said that CBS handed them their butt in the dispute and TWC is still paying for it today (and will until next October at a minimum), your view on who loses might be your opinion, but it the real world, with numbers to back it up, is not reality.


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## hasbeen29650 (Mar 25, 2012)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Actually, CBS has put a price on it's product. $5.99. You can get it personally for free over the air (it's up to do whatever you have to do to get that), a personal subscription for $5.99 on the internet or a group buy through Dish at a discount of $2.00 and Dish makes all their customers takes it. It's very clear.
> 
> Considering the Former TW Chairman Dick Parsons said that CBS handed them their butt in the dispute and TWC is still paying for it today (and will until next October at a minimum), your view on who loses might be your opinion, but it the real world, with numbers to back it up, is not reality.


The only problem with the $5.99 answer is that the last time I checked, it did not include sports and potentially a bunch of their other programs. It was limited to something like 15 current programs plus a library of past shows. So OTA is definitely a better way to go if you can do it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep... that online streaming charge CBS is trying to make work has yet to be time-tested... you don't get everything you can get free OTA and it requires high-speed broadband to be of use... and it still costs more to you than Dish charges you as part of your package to get all your LiLs. I don't think CBS is going to be real successful right now with that $5.99 plan.

Meanwhile... using TWC's admittedly failed negotiation efforts as an example doesn't necessarily foretell the future. If TWC said publicly they dropped the ball in the negotiations... that is just further ammo for Dish to hold out because they believe that they are in a stronger position to "do without" and they haven't really been proven wrong yet.

People will say all sorts of stuff... but I can't find any hard evidence that supports Dish being financially harmed by any of their negotiations thus far... they lose some channels for a while, and maybe sometimes a few customers... but they keep ticking along and the better channels come back eventually.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

hasbeen29650 said:


> The only problem with the $5.99 answer is that the last time I checked, it did not include sports and potentially a bunch of their other programs. It was limited to something like 15 current programs plus a library of past shows. So OTA is definitely a better way to go if you can do it.





Stewart Vernon said:


> Yep... that online streaming charge CBS is trying to make work has yet to be time-tested... you don't get everything you can get free OTA and it requires high-speed broadband to be of use... and it still costs more to you than Dish charges you as part of your package to get all your LiLs. I don't think CBS is going to be real successful right now with that $5.99 plan.


That makes a $2.00 Group Buy an even BETTER deal!

A steal at more than 66% off!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Would 66% off $1 million per subscriber be a good deal? Or would the channel still be overpriced?

Setting a price of $5.99 does not mean that the channel content is worth $5.99.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> Would 66% off $1 million per subscriber be a good deal? Or would the channel still be overpriced?
> 
> Setting a price of $5.99 does not mean that the channel content is worth $5.99.


Considering that MVPD subscriber watch local station programming 35% of the time, based on straight percentages, CBS would easily be worth $5.99.

Now, based on people that watch it, the ESPN package is not worth close to $10 a month for most people either.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

The CBS channel for $5.99 is not available on the Roku as yet, I don't believe. They do have CBSN that is an all news channel in HD and the regular CBS channel that runs clips from shows. NBC is on the Roku as well as FOX, but no ABC as yet. Tons of PBS.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Update: **CBS to go dark on Dish Network Today*

(money.cnn.com) - CBS, the country's highest-rated television network, has set a very public deadline in its dispute with Dish Network: 7 p.m. Eastern, Thursday....

Full Story Here


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

From other stories it appears that the CBS O&O stations will go dark this evening, as well as CBS Sports and Showtime. While I'm not affected by the CBS stations in this deal, I could get it OTA if needed and sometimes do now if we are having storms.

CBS Sports is a yawner for me too as they don't have much boxing on, or at least no matches that have caught my eye.

Showtime going dark is a total leverage move as it is an ala carte Premium channel. I just got a 1/2 off deal on that and have to wonder whether that will be honored when SHO comes back on. If not I'll just do what I was doing when they made the offer which is cancel SHO. At most I watch the live boxing and will miss it, and a very rare movie. To me it is worth the $7 1/2 off price and no more.

But the good part of these events is that it allows us the opportunity to evaluate what we watch and how much we pay for it. Coupled with the unofficial increases after the 1st of the year I know I'm carefully looking at my subscription level to see if I need to stay at the level I'm at or start trimming some things back. If the VOD was a bit better, and the cable type channels reran their most popular shows a bit more often, I could get rid of the SuperJoey and save $10/month. That SJ is just sitting there, not connected to any TV just for the extra 2 tuners.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

I took advantage of the free one month CBS Cyber Monday trial on December 1. It is good for us because we really only use CBS for prime time series. The big disadvantage is that as it is internet streaming it is not easy to get it to a TV. The Samsung smart TV internet browser doesn't work well enough and you can't use streaming devices like Roku. However, I did find a solution that works perfectly - screen mirroring on my 2014 Samsung UHD TV from a CBS app on my Galaxy S5. I can watch episodes the day after with substantially reduced ads, not perfect but solves the problem for free. Worst case if it's along blackout would be $5.99 for January.

Take that Moonves!


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## crabtrp (Sep 23, 2006)

So if we have an OTA module then we should still be OK, right?


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

patmurphey said:


> Worst case if it's along blackout would be $5.99 for January.
> 
> Take that Moonves!


Given that that's somewhere around 10 times what you would have paid him for January from Dish, I suspect he will be reasonably happy to "take that!".

Or am I misunderstanding?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

If you have OTA you are un affected However- IT's really CBS LOST AD revenue as it will have to list number of Lost viewers to to ad CO going forward - I say Bravo to DISH SHUT then off and Move on- Dish as with any other provider will let NOT their product price drop no matter how many stations they drop - so don't expect a priced drop anytime soon.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

crabtrp said:


> So if we have an OTA module then we should still be OK, right?


Hi
You will most likely lose guide data and should set a manual timer just to be safe.

I will be recording on a Hard Disk Drive DVD recorder in the Highest Quality setting and just in case I set a recording last night to record the block from 7:58PM to 11:05 PM on WCBS via cable. The next time I need to worry about is Sunday, Monday & Tuesday Evening and then back to Thursday. This will be a non event for me as the recorder has a skip forward and reverse rocker switch so i can jump past commercials easily. I have them set at 30 seconds forward and 10 seconds reverse currently.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

WestDC said:


> If you have OTA you are un affected However- IT's really CBS LOST AD revenue as it will have to list number of Lost viewers to to ad CO going forward - I say Bravo to DISH SHUT then off and Move on- Dish as with any other provider will let NOT their product price drop no matter how many stations they drop - so don't expect a priced drop anytime soon.


Examining Q3 2013 to Q3 2012 Revenue for CBS:

$3,266M Q3 2012
$3,634M Q3 2013 +11.3% (During 30 day TWC Blackout)

Yeah, CBS did horribly in Q3 Revenue while being off TWC for 30 days, ROFLMAO.

Now, if we examine the impact on TWC:

11,939,000 Video subs as of 9/30/2011
12,159,000 Video Subs as of 9/30/2012 +1.8%
11,414,000 Video Subs as of 9/30/2013 -6.1%
10,827,000 Video Subs as of 9/30/2014 -5.1%

Video Revenue
$2,624M 3Q11
$2,722M 3Q12 +3.7%
$2,600M 3Q13 -4.5%
$2,497M 3Q14 -4.0%

Advertisers get guaranteed GRPs (Gross Rating Points). After the airing, posting occurs where if an advertising schedule has a deficit in total GRPs, CBS airs more spots free of charge (Make Goods). In other words, you see less Big Bang Theory or NCIS promos. Thus Advertisers really do not care about these spats - they always get what they paid for.

Of course MVPDs do not "guarantee" delivery of the channels to subs, so you do not have that protection. Perhaps you should ask why TWC/Dish and others do not treat you as well as TV treats their customers. Perhaps Charlie should credit everyone $5.99 a month so they can sign up with CBS online!

And as for "lost viewers":

Persons 18-49
ABC Flat Fall 2013 to Fall 2014
CW Flat Fall 2013 to Fall 2014 <<< CBS/TWC
CBS -2% Fall 2013 to Fall 2014 <<< CBS/TWC
NBC -6% Fall 2013 to Fall 2014
FOX -13% Fall 2013 to Fall 2014


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Anyone have the number that's been splashed across CBS channel screens about this? NM FOUND IT!
Between CBS, CW, TNT and Showtime, it's nearly a majority of the shows I record! This is truly a real deal breaker!

If DISH can't get this deal underway soon, I'll be forced to leave. I have basic Comcast service as part of my internet (cheaper than not having it), but I would have to watch real time. It would be easy to swap to Comcast although it's not my first choice.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

dmspen said:


> Anyone have the number that's been splashed across CBS channel screens about this?
> Between CBS, CW, TNT and Showtime, it's nearly a majority of the shows I record! This is truly a real deal breaker!
> 
> If DISH can't get this deal underway soon, I'll be forced to leave. I have basic Comcast service as part of my internet (cheaper than not having it), but I would have to watch real time. It would be easy to swap to Comcast although it's not my first choice.


Hi
Why not get a DVR from Comcast for the duration? I would get one from Optimum if I did not already have a way to record CBS from the Cable HD broadcast.
TBoneit


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

dmspen said:


> Anyone have the number that's been splashed across CBS channel screens about this? NM FOUND IT!
> Between CBS, CW, TNT and Showtime, it's nearly a majority of the shows I record! This is truly a real deal breaker!


Why is your TNT out?


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## bills (Nov 7, 2002)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Why is your TNT out?


I to saw this..showtime was included


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Orion9 said:


> Given that that's somewhere around 10 times what you would have paid him for January from Dish, I suspect he will be reasonably happy to "take that!".
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding?


December is free, worst case is ONLY if it goes into January AND the shows aren't into reruns. Can you point to a more economical way to deal with seeing first run HD episodes without waiting for Amazon Prime? CBS was stupid to offer free December for streaming if they were going to pull the channels now. But, maybe it doesn't matter if not many Dish customers took advantage of it.

If it goes that far, Dish will probably give enough credits to pay, anyway.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

patmurphey said:


> December is free, worst case is ONLY if it goes into January AND the shows aren't into reruns. Can you point to a more economical way to deal with seeing first run HD episodes without waiting for Amazon Prime? CBS was stupid to offer free December for streaming if they were going to pull the channels now. But, maybe it doesn't matter if not many Dish customers took advantage of it.
> 
> If it goes that far, Dish will probably give enough credits to pay, anyway.


If you pay for 1 month, that gives CBS more than Dish would pay them currently in a year - so they will be happy either way.

And then again, if Dish gives you credit to pay for it, means Charlie made a REALLY bad move.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

patmurphey said:


> December is free, worst case is ONLY if it goes into January AND the shows aren't into reruns.


Yeah but then you said "take that! to the CEO of CBS right after you said you would give him ~10 times what you used to pay him. "take that!" is a very odd expression for doing that. I would think "Thank you, sir, may I have another" (Animal House) is more appropriate.


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## bgullicksen (Oct 1, 2006)

7:08 and CBS is still on.....has anyone heard if things have been settled or does it take a while to turn it all off?


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

the channels have until 9 30 PM CT to be removed if there is no agreement.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

Just minutes ago this press release went out:

Dish Network Subscribers in 60 Markets May Lose Network and Local Community Programming Tomorrow Night
60 Stations Potentially Affected as DISH Has Yet to Reach Distribution Agreement with Nexstar Broadcasting

Link to Press Release


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## bgullicksen (Oct 1, 2006)

Wow, thanks! It just seems to keep getting worse and worse for us Dish subscribers. First we lost Comcast Sports Network so I can't watch the Celtics anymore, then CNN, Cartoon Network, etc. for a bit. CBS and Showtime and now this potentially. I missed a bunch of Walking Dead when they fought with AMC a while back. My price doesn't get lowered when I get less service than what I am contracted to pay for. I appreciate Dish fighting hard to keep our prices as low as they possibly can be, but I also should be compensated when they don't provide me what I am paying for.

This will be it for me. If I lose any of these stations I will have to go to Comcast. I hate Comcast and I love the Hopper w/Sling but I can't keep paying for programming that I lose access to. This is getting way to common. It's no wonder people cut the cord and just grab content from the Torrents. Sorry to rant, but it feels good to vent!


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## coffee (Dec 16, 2008)

Found this update just now: http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/cbs-dish-network-face-7-p-m-et-blackout-deadline-for-carriage-deal-1201370960/



> *UPDATE 7 PM ET*: CBS stations remain up on Dish Network as negotiations "progress into the evening," CBS said in a statement.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

coolman302003 said:


> Just minutes ago this press release went out:
> 
> Dish Network Subscribers in 60 Markets May Lose Network and Local Community Programming Tomorrow Night
> 60 Stations Potentially Affected as DISH Has Yet to Reach Distribution Agreement with Nexstar Broadcasting
> ...


Well that adds a few more CBS Stations to the possible blackout list on Dish


```
DMA Rank  Affiliation  Station  DMA Name
17	CBS	KREG-TV	Denver, CO
54	CBS	KGPE	Fresno-Visalia, CA
68	CBS	WFRV-TV	Green Bay-Appleton, WI
78	CBS	WROC-TV	Rochester, NY
85	CBS	WCIA	Champaign-Springfield-Decatur, IL
100	CBS	WHBF-TV	Davenport, IA-Rock Island-Moline, IL
104	CBS	WTAJ-TV	Johnstown-Altoona, PA
117	CBS	WMBD-TV	Peoria-Bloomington, IL
144	CBS	KLBK-TV	Lubbock, TX
164	CBS	KTAB-TV	Abilene-Sweetwater, TX
180	CBS	WJMN-TV	Marquette, MI
185	CBS	KREX-TV	Grand Junction-Montrose, CO
185	CBS	KREY-TV	Grand Junction-Montrose, CO
198	CBS	KLST	San Angelo, TX
11	CW	KASW	Phoenix, AZ
34	CW	KUCW	Salt Lake City, UT
45	CW	WLYH-TV	Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York, PA
48	CW	WCWJ	Jacksonville, FL
50	CW	WLMT	Memphis, TN
67	CW	WWCW	Roanoke-Lynchburg, VA
72	CW	KCWI-TV	Des Moines-Ames, IA
93	CW	WBRL-CD	Baton Rouge, LA
100	CW	KGCW	Davenport, IA-Rock Island-Moline, IL
```


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

KREG, KREY and KREV are the same station. Translators all around Grand Junction (KREG is the primary station). KCNC is the Denver CBS affiliate.



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Well that adds a few more CBS Stations to the possible blackout list on Dish
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

nmetro said:


> KREG, KREY and KREV are the same station. Translators all around Grand Junction (KREG is the primary station). KCNC is the Denver CBS affiliate.


The list has the TV DMA, not the city of license.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

These are two different disputes. The Nexstar thing is not CBS/CW specific, it affects all of their stations. (And likely the stations of their shell company Mission too)


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

bgullicksen said:


> Wow, thanks! It just seems to keep getting worse and worse for us Dish subscribers. First we lost Comcast Sports Network so I can't watch the Celtics anymore, then CNN, Cartoon Network, etc. for a bit. CBS and Showtime and now this potentially. I missed a bunch of Walking Dead when they fought with AMC a while back. My price doesn't get lowered when I get less service than what I am contracted to pay for. I appreciate Dish fighting hard to keep our prices as low as they possibly can be, but I also should be compensated when they don't provide me what I am paying for.
> 
> This will be it for me. If I lose any of these stations I will have to go to Comcast. I hate Comcast and I love the Hopper w/Sling but I can't keep paying for programming that I lose access to. This is getting way to common. It's no wonder people cut the cord and just grab content from the Torrents. Sorry to rant, but it feels good to vent!


Hi
FWIW DirecTV has these problems and My Cable company has had problems too. There is no escaping it unless You use a OTA antenna for locals.

Good Luck
TBoneit


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

KyL416 said:


> These are two different disputes. The Nexstar thing is not CBS/CW specific, it affects all of their stations. (And likely the stations of their shell company Mission too)


No one ever said they were part of the same dispute.....just the possibility of more CBS stations going dark.

No reason to mention ABC/NBC/FOX/MyNetworkTV/Telemundo as this is a CBS related thread.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

KSTW-11-Seattle is also CBS O&O


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

And if a deal is signed with CBS the Nextar stations could still go dark.

Let's keep this thread on the dispute with CBS ...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

bgullicksen said:


> I missed a bunch of Walking Dead when they fought with AMC a while back.


How did you manage that? When Dish and AMC were in dispute it was mostly over the summer... the dispute went over the 1st week of the new season of Walking Dead that year, but was resolved the next week... and when AMC airs new episodes they always are a repeat of the previous week just beforehand... so when Dish came back on with AMC that next weekend, I got to see the 1 episode of Walking Dead I missed and the 2nd episode of the season day and time aired!

If you missed a "bunch" then that wasn't Dish or AMC's fault.



bgullicksen said:


> My price doesn't get lowered when I get less service than what I am contracted to pay for.


Technically speaking, you're getting exactly what you pay for. Dish clearly states that you are paying for a package of channels and that package might change. They might lose channels, channels might change tiers, and channels get added sometimes too! Do you immediately ask if you can pay Dish more when they add a new channel in the middle of the year?

The only place for a legitimate gripe of paying for something you don't get would be if Showtime goes dark. In that one case, you should absolutely stop paying for the Showtime tier because they dropped the whole package essentially... and I bet you have zero problems getting that taken care of on the bill. That's the one scenario where they have to stop charging you, because the whole tier/package went dark.



bgullicksen said:


> I appreciate Dish fighting hard to keep our prices as low as they possibly can be, but I also should be compensated when they don't provide me what I am paying for.


Already addressed above... you pay for a package, the package has no guaranteed content. You signed that agreement either virtually or physically when you signed up for Dish service. Maybe you didn't read the agreement, but it's there. They also usually do not immediately raise prices when they add channels... would you like them to do that? I know they would like to do that... but it's easier to raise rates once or twice a year than to do it each time they add a channel or renegotiate a contract.



bgullicksen said:


> This will be it for me. If I lose any of these stations I will have to go to Comcast. I hate Comcast and I love the Hopper w/Sling but I can't keep paying for programming that I lose access to. This is getting way to common. It's no wonder people cut the cord and just grab content from the Torrents. Sorry to rant, but it feels good to vent!


Why would you go to Comcast? Comcast is at least 50% responsible for the problem you stated with losing the Comcast RSN.... but you'd reward them by going to them? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

dmspen said:


> Anyone have the number that's been splashed across CBS channel screens about this? NM FOUND IT!
> Between CBS, CW, TNT and Showtime, it's nearly a majority of the shows I record! This is truly a real deal breaker!
> 
> If DISH can't get this deal underway soon, I'll be forced to leave. I have basic Comcast service as part of my internet (cheaper than not having it), but I would have to watch real time. It would be easy to swap to Comcast although it's not my first choice.


I always wonder how important television is for people.... I mean, in many years of Time Warner Cable and DirecTV, I have had my share of disputes, and lost my share of channels.... sometimes for months. But it was never important enough for me to switch providers. In the case of CBS, it can be received for free with an aerial antenna (provided of course you can get the reception) and the only issue would be recording. But if you have a computer, you can buy a $50 usb tv tuner and record television that way.

I finally ended up being fed up with price increases year after year after year, due to the higher prices operators like Dish are paying to content and channel providers, and especially to sports content providers who are attached to major league teams. They just want more and more and more money.... And Dish isn't getting any of it by the way, they just pass on the buck.

I, for one, was getting tired of ever increasing prices. I decided it isn't all that bad to see the series that are on TV now..... NEXT year when they appear on Netflix and Amazon Prime. I don't need to see it first run, its not like we discuss whats on TV anymore the next day at work.

In any case, I will always side with the cable and satellite companies on these disputes, if you want to continue to pay for television, at least let there be a fight for the lowest price.


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

bgullicksen said:


> This will be it for me. If I lose any of these stations I will have to go to Comcast. I hate Comcast and I love the Hopper w/Sling but I can't keep paying for programming that I lose access to. This is getting way to common. It's no wonder people cut the cord and just grab content from the Torrents. Sorry to rant, but it feels good to vent!


What makes you think Comcast is immune to these disputes?


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Why would you go to Comcast? Comcast is at least 50% responsible for the problem you stated with losing the Comcast RSN.... but you'd reward them by going to them? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


Pretty hard to put the blame on Comcast 50%.

Comcast is not going to giveaway the product and lose money.

And if you comeback is Comcast should not have paid so much for the rights, then the team would not have had the money to sign better players - and the team would not be as popular losing more - so less viewers would care....and the circle keeps going round and round....

If you want to say 80/20, I'll give you that.

However, DirecTV decided years ago to go after the higher credit score customer - those who would pay their bills on time and could afford to give a higher APRU, as noted in an earlier postin this thread.

Over time, that has left Dish with what it ended up with.

Bottom line. If Dish's customers cannot afford all the bells and whistles (and channels), there are other choices, Comcast being one of them.

Dish has it's model and DirecTV has it's model (And Comcast has it's model).

Some car dealers sell Mercedes. Some sell Subaru. Some sell used car for those who cannot get financing anywhere else.

That does not mean that EVERY customer fits that model.

But businesses know their model and adjust themselves to those models.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Update: **CBS, Dish Network Blackout Deadline Passes*

(thewrap.com) - The broadcast network had threatened a 7 p.m. ET Thursday deadline for reaching a deal in the carriage dispute, but currently remains on the air.

As the deadline hit for the threatened blackout, CBS remained on the air Thursday evening.

"CBS remains on the air with Dish while negotiations progress into the evening," the network said in a statement....

Full Story Here


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Orion9 said:


> Yeah but then you said "take that! to the CEO of CBS right after you said you would give him ~10 times what you used to pay him. "take that!" is a very odd expression for doing that. I would think "Thank you, sir, may I have another" (Animal House) is more appropriate.


If you don't already have OTA, what better way is there to deal with December to get first run VOD the next day or at our convenience? OTA is only live with full ads unless you PAY for an alternative recording system. January is only an afterthought in the unlikely event there are any first run shows that are important to my family. I should have put the "take that" after the first paragraph, because I will likely cancel December 31.

Free December combined with going to reruns was "stupid" timing for this dispute for non sports fans.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

patmurphey said:


> If you don't already have OTA, what better way is there to deal with December to get first run VOD the next day or at our convenience? OTA is only live with full ads unless you PAY for an alternative recording system. January is only an afterthought in the unlikely event there are any first run shows that are important to my family. I should have put the "take that" after the first paragraph, because I will likely cancel December 31.
> 
> Free December combined with going to reruns was "stupid" timing for this dispute for non sports fans.


Considering TWC dispute was 30 days in August, no Sports, no New Programming, No New Season, Summer Programming with low HUT levels and it still resulted in what is believed to be over half a million disconnects, though TWC refuses to give the exact number, (We know it was over 300,000 for the Quarter after 30 days of scrambling with a ridiculous money losing Bundle offered in September and October to get new subs), December is much better for a Blackout than August, especially as people think of planning for the New Year.

EDIT: TWC offered Triple Play Bundle of TV, Internet and Phone plus a HD DVR for $79 a month with a 2 year price guarantee in September and October 2013 to try and quickly inflate numbers after the disconnects from the TWC dispute.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Pretty hard to put the blame on Comcast 50%.
> 
> Comcast is not going to giveaway the product and lose money.


Comcast has a product it wants to sell... Dish wants to be able to sell that to its customers... Comcast wants more money... Dish does not... that's at least 50/50 "blame" if you want to assign it that way.

Dish didn't go to Comcast and demand they cut their prices... Dish didn't instigate the dispute. Dish would have been happy to keep paying the current rate. Comcast wanted more, for whatever the reason... that's why they get at least 50% of the root cause of the dispute.



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> However, DirecTV decided years ago to go after the higher credit score customer - those who would pay their bills on time and could afford to give a higher APRU, as noted in an earlier postin this thread.
> 
> Over time, that has left Dish with what it ended up with.


I don't even understand what you're trying to imply here... you sound like you are bashing customers now... not the companies... as if somehow a DirecTV subscriber is a better person than a Dish subscriber? Really?



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Bottom line. If Dish's customers cannot afford all the bells and whistles (and channels), there are other choices, Comcast being one of them.


Wait... so somehow the TNT and CBS and SHO and whatever I watch are somehow different/better on DirecTV? It is the same channel.

This is like the people who refuse to buy from Wal-Mart as if somehow the Pepsi sold there is inferior to the Pepsi sold at a "fancy" store. It makes no sense.



SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Dish has it's model and DirecTV has it's model (And Comcast has it's model).
> 
> Some car dealers sell Mercedes. Some sell Subaru. Some sell used car for those who cannot get financing anywhere else.
> 
> ...


You really do seem to be implying the product is somehow better/different when it costs more. I hope you don't really believe that.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Comcast has a product it wants to sell... Dish wants to be able to sell that to its customers... Comcast wants more money... Dish does not... that's at least 50/50 "blame" if you want to assign it that way.


I used to be able to go to McDonalds and get a Double Cheeseburger for .99. Now it cost 50%. I do not want to pay 50% more for the Burger. McDonalds (rightfully so)refuses to lose money on the sale. So both parties are 50/50 to blame?

Dish didn't go to Comcast and demand they cut their prices... Dish didn't instigate the dispute. Dish would have been happy to keep paying the current rate. Comcast wanted more, for whatever the reason... that's why they get at least 50% of the root cause of the dispute.

Comical.



Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't even understand what you're trying to imply here... you sound like you are bashing customers now... not the companies... as if somehow a DirecTV subscriber is a better person than a Dish subscriber? Really?


I am not bashing customers - simply stating what is known about the profile of Dish customers.



Stewart Vernon said:


> Wait... so somehow the TNT and CBS and SHO and whatever I watch are somehow different/better on DirecTV? It is the same channel.
> 
> This is like the people who refuse to buy from Wal-Mart as if somehow the Pepsi sold there is inferior to the Pepsi sold at a "fancy" store. It makes no sense.


Actually as those are in 1920x1080 on DirecTV compared to 1440x1080 on Dish, one could argue that fact.

However, I am speaking of things like NFL ST etc. that DirecTV customers are offered and will pay for and Dish Customers will not.

Again, the APRU along with very public articles have stated very clearly what is happening.



Stewart Vernon said:


> You really do seem to be implying the product is somehow better/different when it costs more. I hope you don't really believe that.


No, but I know there is a market profile for Hondas and a market profile for BMWs.


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