# HR24's Reduced Network Performance



## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

I am having an issue with MRV on my 2 HR24's. I had it installed by Directv the first weekend after it was available. They installed a SWMLNB, 4 way spliiter (Green Label) and the 2 new HR24's to replace my older DVR's. Everything worked fine until the 03E0 software update that was pushed last week. Now both of the dvrs are loosing connection to each other and it is taking a reboot to bring them back. I am also getting an error in system test about reduced network performance. I have ran the test to check loss and it looks ok. Low 30's and dropped session count of 0. Under phy rate mesh the lowest has been 218. As a test I replaced cables and changed splitter ports and it didn't change. One thing that I did was powered down everything, both dvrs, deca PI and network DECA and when everything came back the phy rate mesh readings were all above 235 so I thought that fixed the problem but it came back yesterday after the guide data reboot issue.

Thanks for helping!


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## jasonki32 (Jan 29, 2008)

Are the unused ports on the splitter terminated?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> I am having an issue with MRV on my 2 HR24's. I had it installed by Directv the first weekend after it was available. They installed a SWMLNB, 4 way spliiter (Green Label) and the 2 new HR24's to replace my older DVR's. Everything worked fine until the 03E0 software update that was pushed last week. Now both of the dvrs are loosing connection to each other and it is taking a reboot to bring them back. I am also getting an error in system test about reduced network performance. I have ran the test to check loss and it looks ok. Low 30's and dropped session count of 0. Under phy rate mesh the lowest has been 218. As a test I replaced cables and changed splitter ports and it didn't change. One thing that I did was powered down everything, both dvrs, deca PI and network DECA and when everything came back the phy rate mesh readings were all above 235 so I thought that fixed the problem but it came back yesterday after the guide data reboot issue.


Are you using static IP's? If so, make sure they are unique to your LAN.

Otherwise, as you say, with solid "phy rate mesh" readings and a "dropped session coun"t of "0", it's possible it's a software issue, HR24-500 to HR24-500. That may not yet be a common configuration and that's why we're not hearing more complaints about it. Just a WAG on my part, tho.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> I am also getting an error in system test about reduced network performance. I have ran the test to check loss and it looks ok. Low 30's and dropped session count of 0. Under phy rate mesh the lowest has been 218... when everything came back the phy rate mesh readings were all above 235 so...
> 
> Thanks for helping!


 Something isn't correlating. 

The error in system test is because one of the nodes is below 215.
Make sure all connectors/cables are "snug" and all unused ports are terminated with 75Ω loads.
Then rerun the DECA test and post your results [from both pg 1 & 2] & try the system test again [twice].


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Thanks for all your help.

Are the unused ports on the splitter terminated? Yes

Are you using static IP's? No DHCP

I checked all the connections and swapped a few cables and are having the same results:

Here are my readings after doing this:

On the Master Bedroom HR24:

Node
0 Network 30 
1 Master Bedroom N/A 
2 Family Room 33 

0 221 221 245
1 235 232 236
2 241 221 219

On the Living Room HR24:

Node
0 Network 31 
1 Master Bedroom 32 
2 Family Room N/A 

0 223 222 248
1 234 231 238
2 239 220 217

Both of them fail the system test with error 48-875 Reduced Network Performance but the Master Bedroom only lists the Master Bedroom HR24 having reduced performance and the Living Room lists both.

Thanks


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Thanks for all your help.
> 
> Are the unused ports on the splitter terminated? Yes
> 
> ...


I'd be targeting this one.
Can you post a bit more about your setup?
Do you have a bandstop filter?
Cable lengths from splitter to filter/dish?
Only one 4-way splitter right?
Where does node 3 come from, and why isn't there a power reading from it?


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Sorry VOS I hit enter before completing my reading so they were wrong before I got a chance to edit it.

I'll answer some of your questions though.

Do you have a bandstop filter? No

Cable lengths from splitter to filter/dish? Approx 50'

Only one 4-way splitter right? Yes

My setup is: AU9 dish with new SWMLNB, lines from the dish going to a ground block in basement and then single line connected to 4-way splitter, 2 home runs from basement to each room with HR24 in Living Room and HR24 in Master Bedroom, single lines connected to splitter and then to each of the HR24s, Network DECA in Study connected to router and SMW PI connected behind Living Room HR24.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Sorry VOS I hit enter before completing my reading so they were wrong before I got a chance to edit it.
> 
> I'll answer some of your questions though.
> 
> ...


After praising the green splitters, you might be in a situation where they aren't the best for you.
Do you have any 4-ways that aren't the green ones and work with SWiM?
The Green 4-way has about 11-12 dB loss from the output to output [for DECA only] and the path out the input to the SWiM [bandstop filter] and back is about 6 dB + the losses of the splitter.
The two things I'd try:
Add a bandstop filter on the input of the splitter [removing the 6 dB cable loss] to improve this path, "or"
change the 4-way splitter to a non green one to increase the loss of the output to output path.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> After praising the green splitters, you might be in a situation where they aren't the best for you.
> Do you have any 4-ways that aren't the green ones and work with SWiM?
> The Green 4-way has about 11-12 dB loss from the output to output [for DECA only] and the path out the input to the SWiM [bandstop filter] and back is about 6 dB + the losses of the splitter.
> The two things I'd try:
> ...


I don't have another splitter or band stop filter. Do you think it would make any difference if I moved the SWM PI downstairs and put it directly on the splitter input 1? I do have a service call scheduled for Sunday afternoon but am unsure if they would know what to do as much as you all know here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> I don't have another splitter or band stop filter. Do you think it would make any difference if I moved the SWM PI downstairs and put it directly on the splitter input 1? I do have a service call scheduled for Sunday afternoon but am unsure if they would know what to do as much as you all know here.


It wouldn't hurt to try. The signal going out the input [and back] is a bit sensitive to line length, since it travels both ways. I've had some improvement just by using a different length cable.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

I moved the SWM PI to the Master Bedroom HR24 and had to reboot the dvrs to get MRV back but at least for now both of them pass the system test and all the phy mesh readings are 231 or better. It was like this the other day though when I powered it all down and started it all up fresh then after a day or so the readings went back down and the system test started failing.

Thanks for all your help!!!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> I moved the SWM PI to the Master Bedroom HR24 and had to reboot the dvrs to get MRV back but at least for now both of them pass the system test and all the phy mesh readings are 231 or better. It was like this the other day though when I powered it all down and started it all up fresh then after a day or so the readings went back down and the system test started failing.
> 
> Thanks for all your help!!!


I've seen mine barely pass after this and then "somewhat improve" over time.
Check it tomorrow and post your bit-rates.
If the tech comes by, see if you can snag a bandstop filter.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I've seen mine barely pass after this and then "somewhat improve" over time.
> Check it tomorrow and post your bit-rates.
> If the tech comes by, see if you can snag a bandstop filter.


Seems like moving the SWM PI to the Master Bedroom HR24 fixed it. The numbers are still looking good today and they are both passing. Here are the numbers:

On the Master Bedroom HR24:

0 Master Bedroom N/A
1 Network DECA 31 
2 Living Room 33

0 236 242 237
1 236 236 241
2 236 245 235

On the Living Room HR24:

0 Master Bedroom 32
1 Network DECA 29
2 Living Room N/A

0 240 247 241
1 240 235 242
2 234 245 231


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Seems like moving the SWM PI to the Master Bedroom HR24 fixed it. The numbers are still looking good today and they are both passing. Here are the numbers:
> 
> On the Master Bedroom HR24:
> 
> ...


Good to see. It wasn't "really" the PI, but that you changed the line [length] by removing it.
I have mine running through the PI as you had, with good results.
You might have been able to use a coax 2" longer or shorter and had similar results.


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## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

I want to report an issue with "Reduced Network Performance".

My setup is 1x HR24 and 3x H24, and 1x DECA ethernet bridge to the internet. This is a DIY setup, configured following the superb resources here.

Everything works perfectly!

But, each receiver reports "Reduced Network Performance", more interestingly my only low Phy Rate's are from Note N to Node N, the diagonal of the matrix.

Is this an anomaly with the test? Anything to worry about?

Coax Test at the HR24...

Node - Device - Phy Levels
0 - H24 - 25
1 - DECA - 29
2 - H24 - 36
3 - H24 - 34
4 - HR24 - N/A

Phy Rate Mesh
0 - *217* 231 244 227 253
1 - 233 *222* 233 244 237
2 - 242 229 *212* 227 243
3 - 227 243 231 *213* 228
4 - 246 228 249 219 *210*

Shouldn't the diagonal be N/A anyway?

Lonnie

PS: All home-run RG6 copper conductor, green-label 8 port splitter (empties terminated), DECA blocking filter to SWM PI then to SWM8.

Distance from Splitter (node):
0 - 40 ft
1 - 6 ft
2 - 100 ft
3 - 90 ft
4 - 20 ft


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lonnie58 said:


> I want to report an issue with "Reduced Network Performance".
> 
> My setup is 1x HR24 and 3x H24, and 1x DECA ethernet bridge to the internet. This is a DIY setup, configured following the superb resources here.
> 
> ...


While you won't be using the diagonal path, since it's each DECA back to itself, currently the system test doesn't ignore it.
As with the poster above, seems like trying to move things around that are connected to the splitter input should make a difference and hopefully one of them would be an improvement. The Bandstop filter is on the splitter? If so try it on the PI. Then maybe move it to after the PI.
Run the test after any change and post what happens.


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## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> While you won't be using the diagonal path, since it's each DECA back to itself, currently the system test doesn't ignore it.
> As with the poster above, seems like trying to move things around that are connected to the splitter input should make a difference and hopefully one of them would be an improvement. The Bandstop filter is on the splitter? If so try it on the PI. Then maybe move it to after the PI.
> Run the test after any change and post what happens.


Currently the splitter input is connected to a 6 foot coax, then the Bandstop filter connected to the IRD port of the PI, then the PI SWM port is connected to the SWM8.

Are you suggesting moving the Bandstop filter between the PI and SWM8? Will the bandstop filter pass DC?

Lonnie


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

lonnie58 said:


> Currently the splitter input is connected to the Bandstop filter, then to the IRD port of the SWM PI, then to the SWM8.
> 
> Are you suggesting moving the Bandstop filter between the PI and SWM8? Will the bandstop filter pass DC?
> 
> Lonnie


Moving the filter will change the phase of the DECA signal reflected back to the DVRs by the filter, which may either increase or decrease the effective coupling (there will be constructive or destructive interference with the signal which is coupled between splitter ports).

The filter will pass DC.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

^^ "yeah"

Make small changes since 2" can make or break this. Move the filter to the PI, test, then move it to the other side of the PI and retest.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

I had an HR24-500 installed today to replace a defective HR21. The tech checked MRV prior to forcing a software update and it looked OK - it found the other DVR. He then updated the software to 03E0 and left. Tonight I noticed that the HR24 is getting an Error 48 - reduced network capability and MRV isn't working. I think the OP mentioned that his setup worked OK prior to 03E0. There has to be a better solution to this than resorting to Easter Egging around with spltters, bandstops and cable lengths.


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## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

lonnie58 said:


> I want to report an issue with "Reduced Network Performance".
> 
> Phy Rate Mesh
> 0 - *217* 231 244 227 253
> ...





bobnielsen said:


> Moving the filter will change the phase of the DECA signal reflected back to the DVRs by the filter, which may either increase or decrease the effective coupling (there will be constructive or destructive interference with the signal which is coupled between splitter ports).
> 
> The filter will pass DC.





veryoldschool said:


> ^^ "yeah"
> 
> Make small changes since 2" can make or break this. Move the filter to the PI, test, then move it to the other side of the PI and retest.


I moved the bandstop filter from the IRD port of the PI to the SWM port of the PI, the "Reduced Network Performance" messages are gone!

Phy Rate Mesh
0 - *221* 234 244 232 252
1 - 238 *222* 238 239 242
2 - 238 236 *216* 230 244
3 - 238 238 236 *219* 240
4 - 247 237 244 232 *215*

While not all rates increased, most did.

This takes me back to my college EM Waves class. 

Thanks for the expert guidance.

Lonnie


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

For those that are adventurous and have the problem that seems to be related to the length of the coax from the splitter to the bandstop filter:
You can make ¼ wave length adjustments with cables that are


1.8" shorter [or longer],
3.6" shorter [or longer],
5.43" shorter [or longer],
7.24" gets you back to where you started.
These should get you close to the optimum phase between the forward and [bounced] return signal back at the splitter input.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

I was able to get MRV fully functional by doing 2 things:
1. I switched the SWM connection to what didn't work for lonnie58. The original install had
SWM -> filter -> splitter_in
PI IRD -> terminated
PI PWR -> splitter_out
I changed it to
PI PWR -> SWM-8
PI IRD -> filter -> splitter_in
That change eliminated the Error 48 and the HR24 saw the HR21 but not vice versa.

The original install had a single wire with a splitter near the HR24. One output went to the HR24 and the other fed the network DECA. I eliminated this splitter and now MRV is fully functional. Hopefully when I run the network DECA line back into the SWM splitter I'll have everything back to normal.


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## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

lonnie58 said:


> I moved the bandstop filter from the IRD port of the PI to the SWM port of the PI, the "Reduced Network Performance" messages are gone!
> 
> Phy Rate Mesh
> 0 - *221* 234 244 232 252
> ...


My final test is to connect the bandstop filter directly to the input of the splitter, using the standard supplied coax pigtail (approx. 6 inches in length).

This yields the best results, ALL rates improved over the previous best. Obviously no "Reduced Network Performance" messages.

Phy Rate Mesh
0 - *239* 249 252 241 253
1 - 244 *241* 249 250 250
2 - 246 250 *236* 242 251
3 - 241 249 245 *235* 247
4 - 251 248 251 244 *242*

Can we assume that for the home-run, single splitter configuration, the phase is defined by the splitter? Therefore for most installations, placing the bandstop filter (with standard pigtail) directly to the splitter input should generally produce the best results? Or is it more complex?

Possibly even green-dot SWM8/16's may be improved by adding a bandstop filter directly on the splitter input?

Lonnie


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## mikemyers (May 19, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> Make sure all connectors/cables are "snug" and all unused ports are terminated with 75Ω loads.


VOS, I'm curious about something. I assume that what you meant by this is that if someone has a splitter, and some of the ports are not connected to anything yet, they should have a terminator attached to those ports that provides the 75 ohm load.

First question - is this correct?
Second question - if so, why isn't a terminator needed for an unused port on a DVR with a single cable attached - or is it?


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## jasonki32 (Jan 29, 2008)

mikemyers said:


> VOS, I'm curious about something. I assume that what you meant by this is that if someone has a splitter, and some of the ports are not connected to anything yet, they should have a terminator attached to those ports that provides the 75 ohm load.
> 
> First question - is this correct?
> Second question - if so, why isn't a terminator needed for an unused port on a DVR with a single cable attached - or is it?


1. Yes the ports should be terminated so that they don't loose any more signal then need be.

2. The answer to your second question is, the DVR is receiving the signal not transmitting it so there is no signal loss with only one cable attached. So there for you don't need to terminate the port.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Had a storm go through last night and we lost power. The Master Bedroom HR24 isn't on a ups so it rebooted and now the phy rate numbers dropped significantly again. Seems like when anything gets disturbed in the setup the only way to get it back is to power off everything and bring it back up. This seems strange to me.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mikemyers said:


> VOS, I'm curious about something. I assume that what you meant by this is that if someone has a splitter, and some of the ports are not connected to anything yet, they should have a terminator attached to those ports that provides the 75 ohm load.
> 
> First question - is this correct?
> Second question - if so, why isn't a terminator needed for an unused port on a DVR with a single cable attached - or is it?





jasonki32 said:


> 1. Yes the ports should be terminated so that they don't loose any more signal then need be.
> 
> 2. The answer to your second question is, the DVR is receiving the signal not transmitting it so there is no signal loss with only one cable attached. So there for you don't need to terminate the port.


2 is correct
1 is a bit unclear. Loose normally is the opposite of tight, which is  here.
The point/reason to use a load/termination is to stop the signal from reflecting, since both a short & an open reflect the signal back to the source.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lonnie58 said:


> Can we assume that for the home-run, single splitter configuration, the phase is defined by the splitter?
> Therefore for most installations, placing the bandstop filter (with standard pigtail) directly to the splitter input should generally produce the best results?
> Or is it more complex?
> Possibly even green-dot SWM8/16's may be improved by adding a bandstop filter directly on the splitter input?
> ...



The splitter doesn't define the phase, since the length of the home runs vary.
The bandstop & pigtail are "close to" one wavelength for the 2-way path back to the splitter input, so this would seem to keep the two in phase.
Right now I'd still lean towards this being more complex. With more setups/examples and what works, this may become clearer.
These are at least three different conditions:
The SWiM-16 can't use any external bandstop filters, since this "kills" the DECA beyond the filter.
The green dot SWM8 has two outputs, so the internal bandstop filter is already mounted on the first splitter's input.
If both outputs are used, like with the SWiM-16, no external bandstop filter can be used.

Green dot SWM8 using one output, non green dot SWM8 [which can only use one output], and SWiMLNB [green dot or not] can all use an external bandstop filter.
This group may be to most common install.
This group may also be where the most problems may come from.
As we hear from those with the problem and what fixed/helped, the better idea we'll have of "the best fix".


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## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> The splitter doesn't define the phase, since the length of the home runs vary.
> The bandstop & pigtail are "close to" one wavelength for the 2-way path back to the splitter input, so this would seem to keep the two in phase.
> Right now I'd still lean towards this being more complex. With more setups/examples and what works, this may become clearer.
> These are at least three different conditions:
> ...


*VOS*, thanks for the detailed clarification.

Placing the bandstop filter immediately off the splitter input properly 'tuned' my (non green dot) SWM8 configuration.

Both the quality and quantity of information here is amazing. Much thanks.

Lonnie


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> [*]Green dot SWM8 using one output, non green dot SWM8 [which can only use one output], and SWiMLNB [green dot or not] can all use an external bandstop filter.
> 
> This group may be to most common install.
> This group may also be where the most problems may come from.
> As we hear from those with the problem and what fixed/helped, the better idea we'll have of "the best fix".


I have a non green dot SWM8 feeding a green dot 4 way splitter so I'm in this category.

My original configuration, which caused Error 48 problems after 03E0 updates was:
SWM8 -> bandstop -> splitter_in
PI IRD -> 75 ohm terminator
PI PWR -> splitter_out
One 4 way splitter output ran 35' to near the HR24 and router. This was split using a green dot 2 way splitter with one output feeding the HR24 and the other feeding the network DECA.

I made 2 changes

Change 1. I changed the SWM configuration to
SWM8 -> PI PWR
PI IRD -> bandstop -> splitter_in
The bandstop pigtail feeds the splitter directly as noted by other posters.

This removed the Error 48 and allowed my HR24 box to see the HR21 but not vice versa.

Change 2. I removed the 2 way splitter from the HR24 line and ran separate lines from the 4 way to the HR24 and to the network DECA.

These 2 changes seem to have fixed my problems.

BTW I'm new to the HR24. Where does this signal matrix data coming from?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

oldengineer said:


> I have a non green dot SWM8 feeding a green dot 4 way splitter so I'm in this category.
> 
> My original configuration, which caused Error 48 problems after 03E0 updates was:
> SWM8 -> bandstop -> splitter_in
> ...


Change one I understand/see and change two I'm not sure did anything.
"The test" comes from the front panel. Press the guide & > at the same time [which can take a few tries with the touch screen type buttons]. When you get it to work, you should see a screen with options to test. Coax network is what you want.
The first screen will show the devices [nodes] and the loss to each from the receiver.
The second screen will have the matrix of bit-rates between nodes.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Change one I understand/see and change two I'm not sure did anything.
> "The test" comes from the front panel. Press the guide & > at the same time [which can take a few tries with the touch screen type buttons]. When you get it to work, you should see a screen with options to test. Coax network is what you want.
> The first screen will show the devices [nodes] and the loss to each from the receiver.
> The second screen will have the matrix of bit-rates between nodes.


I wasn't sure about change 2 (2 separate runs from the 4 way to the HR24 and network DECA either. In order to get all receivers to see each other I had to unplug the ethernet jack (the coax in to the HR24) and replug. I did that after splitting the HR24/DECA. I may undo this and see what happens.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Now both of the HR24's are failing test. The real strange thing is they are listing the name of my laptop as the name failing for reduced network performance. I've checked all the wiring and everything is hooked up right.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Now both of the HR24's are failing test. The real strange thing is the are listing the name of my laptop as the name failing for reduced network performance. I've checked all the wiring and everything is hooked up right.


The name of the laptop or the MAC address of the DECA to router bridge?
What does the coax network test report for that node?


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The name of the laptop or the MAC address of the DECA to router bridge?
> What does the coax network test report for that node?


It's listing the laptops name in the system test but in the DECA test screen neither it's name or MAC address is there just the 2 HR24s and the Network DECA. The phy rates are back down to 217 on some again. They were all above 231 after I move the DECA PI the other day.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Tech just came. Only thing he noticed was the wall plate connectors not being the approved ones so he changed out each of them. As soon as he did both HR24's starting seeing eachother and passed system test. The phy rates went up quite a bit also. They are all above 240 now. Hopefully it will keep working after a few days but he left me his number in case it starts acting up again. Thanks for all the help.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rgraetz said:


> Tech just came. Only thing he noticed was the wall plate connectors not being the approved ones so he changed out each of them. As soon as he did both HR24's starting seeing each other and passed system test. The phy rates went up quite a bit also. They are all above 240 now. Hopefully it will keep working after a few days but he left me his number in case it starts acting up again. Thanks for all the help.


Can't say I'm surprised.

After seeing hundreds of such issues reported over years...a significant % ends up being a connector, a cable, or other basic simple item that proves to be the culprit.

Glad to hear you are back in business.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Tech just came. Only thing he noticed was the wall plate connectors not being the approved ones so he changed out each of them. As soon as he did both HR24's starting seeing eachother and passed system test. The phy rates went up quite a bit also. They are all above 240 now. Hopefully it will keep working after a few days but he left me his number in case it starts acting up again. Thanks for all the help.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Can't say I'm surprised.
> 
> After seeing hundreds of such issues reported over years...a significant % ends up being a connector, a cable, or other basic simple item that proves to be the culprit.
> 
> Glad to hear you are back in business.


I'm not sold on the "approved" connectors, but "good ones" that haven't been painted, is a good start. These may simply have been worn out and, since DECA is in the OTA band, been leaking noise into the system.


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## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Well I guess I was to hopeful. It's quit working again. Strange thing is the readings are all still good but the Living Room HR24 isn't seeing any of the new recordings made in the past few hours. It is seeing older ones though. The Master Bedroom HR24 wasn't seeing the Living Room HR24 until I ran the DECA test. I give up.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Well I guess I was to hopeful. It's quit working again. Strange thing is the readings are all still good but the Living Room HR24 isn't seeing any of the new recordings made in the past few hours. It is seeing older ones though. The Master Bedroom HR24 wasn't seeing the Living Room HR24 until I ran the DECA test. I give up.


You may need to hang in there for a software update. It sounds like the playlist isn't updating [often enough].


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> You may need to hang in there for a software update. It sounds like the playlist isn't updating [often enough].


Have you come up with any more insight since you first found the Guide/Right Arrow menu? I am getting this stupid error about reduced network performance as well, but all my numbers are in the 250 area, and MRV is working fine. Im not sure what is "Reduced".


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm getting the error and a few of the phy rate numbers are a bit low (the other test numbers are fine). I occasionally see a popup while watching MRV, but it goes away before I can read it. Otherwise MRV is working fine for me. I don't have a green label splitter or a bandstop filter, which probably explains it all. I ordered a filter and new splitter from Solid Signal and it will be interesting to see what difference it will make. One of my DECAs doesn't have a green label either but I doubt if that is important.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Have you come up with any more insight since you first found the Guide/Right Arrow menu? I am getting this stupid error about reduced network performance as well, but all my numbers are in the 250 area, and MRV is working fine. Im not sure what is "Reduced".


This is only the second post abut reduced network and the readings are "good".
Could there be a variable you're not seeing? Noise would seem to be the most likely. Some times the readings are good and other times they aren't.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> I'm getting the error and a few of the phy rate numbers are a bit low (the other test numbers are fine). I occasionally see a popup while watching MRV, but it goes away before I can read it. Otherwise MRV is working fine for me. I don't have a green label splitter or a bandstop filter, which probably explains it all. I ordered a filter and new splitter from Solid Signal and it will be interesting to see what difference it will make.* One of my DECAs doesn't have a green label either but I doubt if that is important*.


I agree and don't think the label color on the DECA means anything.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> This is only the second post abut reduced network and the readings are "good".
> Could there be a variable you're not seeing? Noise would seem to be the most likely. Some times the readings are good and other times they aren't.


I dont really have a clue what the numbers mean, but here are the numbers:
0 HR24 N/A
1 NODE- 32
2 NODE- 36
3 H24- 34
4 NODE- 35
Dropped Session Count is 0

211 232 237 246 236
240 215 224 238 244
239 232 211 236 232
248 229 230 205 233
236 238 219 238 206

What do all these numbers mean? Have you figured it out?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> I dont really have a clue what the numbers mean, but here are the numbers:
> 0 HR24 N/A
> 1 NODE-* 32*
> 2 NODE- *36*
> ...


"figured", nope, but I was "told". :lol:
Page 1 is the loss [in dB] between the receiver running the test and the nodes.
Page 2 shows the bit-rates between nodes
215 in a minimum to pass the system test.
The red ones look to be the ones triggering the error.
These look like nodes transmitting and receiving [themselves] which doesn't seem like a path MRV would use, but is still part of the test.
These signal paths most likely are to/through the splitter, out the input and bouncing back off the bandstop filter. Tweaking line length to the filter seems like the only thing that will change this.
Is your filter mounted on the first splitter's input?


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Filter is between the 8 port splitter and the power inserter for the SWiM5 LNB
LNB->PI->BSF->8 PORT Splitter->

1- HR24
2-HR20
3-HR22
4-H24
5- Unused jack in spare room (unterminated)
6- Internet Deca
7- Terminated
8- Terminated

Edit:
Terminated the port in the spare room to see if it made a difference...
No difference...
I plan on rewiring the entire media center closet next weekend, as its gotten to be a total mess of tangled and unlabeled coax and network cables, so Ill see what it looks like after I remove and reconfigure it. Thanks for pointing out the meanings behind the numbers.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Filter is between the 8 port splitter and the power inserter for the SWiM5 LNB
> LNB->PI->BSF->8 PORT Splitter->
> 
> 1- HR24
> ...


try a termination on #5.
mine is: LNB-> 60'-> BSF-> 2-way-> 30'-> PI-> 2'-> 4-way-> ~2-6'
If yours is LNB ? PI ? BSF ? > 8-way.
You can play with moving the BSF either closer to the splitter, or farther away.
"If" the problem is the phasing of the signal going out to the BSF and coming back, changes of about 1.75" [x1, x2, x3] in this cable are what should make/break this.
I started by just grabbing another cable [for the input of my 4-way], since it isn't "the foot" but merely the last few inches that makes the change.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Yea, I edited the last post. I terminated the unused rooms cable, and no difference. Ill try moving (or removing, since I have a green dot LNB) BSF this week, and see what differences it makes.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Yea, I edited the last post. I terminated the unused rooms cable, and no difference. Ill try moving (or removing, since I have a green dot LNB) BSF this week, and see what differences it makes.


If I moved the filter to the LNB, the cable loss is another 6 dB, and this would make more difference than "phasing".


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Good difference or bad difference? My PI to LNB cable is 50' RG6QS.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Good difference or bad difference? My PI to LNB cable is 50' RG6QS.


The "good difference" would be for node to another node, which only one is close [219], so for those that I bolded & colored red, "phasing" is all you can do, since this is the only signal path.
When you're going from output to output, this path and the bounce out the input & back, are where more cable loss can be a good thing, as it will lower the return relative to the isolation [output to output] path.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I think I understand that. Ill read it again tomorrow, when Im not half asleep 
Thanks.


----------



## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Well things went downhill after my last post last night. The Master Bedroom HR24 was not seeing the Living Room HR24 at all so I rebooted it and it still didnt see it. I then rebooted the Living Room HR24 and neither one could see each other. I thought about trying one more thing before giving up and I disconnected the SWM PI coax from the wall connection in the Master Bedroom and reconnected it and immediately both HR24s saw each other and it was working fine again. During all of this all of the test readings were good and both of the HR24s were passing system test. I checked it this morning and things were still looking good.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

*I just tested again with the past hour - here are my results:*

*SWiM8 / DECA / Green Splitters*

Dropped Session Count is *0*



0 NODE -
*33*
--- 248 252 249 252 252
1 NODE - N/A -- 250 245 253 250 249 (
*HR24*
) 
2 NODE -
*32*
--- 247 253 235 251 250
3 NODE -
*29*
--- 247 253 252 246 249 (
*H24*
) 
4 NODE -
*32*
--- 245 248 249 246 242
*Important additional notes:*

1) I have *NO SBF *installed.
2) My coax run from the sat to the SWM8 is approximately 40'.
3) My coax runs from the SWM8 to each location varies from 20' to 80'.
4) ALl my devices are HD (not legacy), including H21, H24, HR21, and HR24 series units.
5) These are my highest readings (now that green splitters are installed).
6) Whole Home DVR Service and MediaShare work well at all locations.


----------



## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

Talked to the tech that came out yesterday and they are going to swap out everything. Both HR24's, LNB, splitter, PI, network DECA...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Talk to the tech that came out yesterday and they are going to swap out everything. Both HR24's, LNB, splitter, PI, network DECA...


"too bad".
That's what is called "shotgun maintenance", and doesn't "find the problem".
What has nothing to do with this:


LNB
splitter
PI
Network DECA
This only leaves the receivers.


----------



## jasonki32 (Jan 29, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *I just tested again with the past hour - here are my results:*
> 
> *SWiM8 / DECA / Green Splitters*
> 
> ...


My numbers were marginal, so the other day I did the same thing with removing my stopband filter and my numbers for the most part look like yours. I have no issues with performance since removing the filter. The bit rate on each node went up 20-40 instantly after removing the filter.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jasonki32 said:


> My numbers were marginal, so the other day I did the same thing with removing my stopband filter and my numbers for the most part look like yours. I have no issues with performance since removing the filter. The bit rate on each node went up 20-40 instantly after removing the filter.


Likely, those without legacy units should remove the SBF...whereas it is likely critical if legacy units are part of your home setup.

Anyone with H21 or HR21 and newer units (only) apparently will do better iwthout the SBF in place.

Then again, I defer that view to the guru on this, Mr. VOS.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jasonki32 said:


> My numbers were marginal, so the other day I did the same thing with removing my stopband filter and my numbers for the most part look like yours. I have no issues with performance since removing the filter. The bit rate on each node went up 20-40 instantly after removing the filter.


"That post" doesn't have all the info.
The SWM8 already had the bandstop filter, since it is a green label/stickered unit.
As we're seeing, the location/position of the filter does/can have an affect.
Please don't think that just removing it is the cure all to this problem.
There is MUCH more to this.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "That post" doesn't have all the info.
> The SWM8 already had the bandstop filter, since it is a green label/stickered unit.
> As we're seeing, the location/position of the filter does/can have an affect.
> Please don't think that just removing it is the cure all to this problem.
> There is MUCH more to this.


I suspected my SWiM was green, but in now physically removing it from a mounted position, found it erroneous in making that assumption. :eek2:

It's an October, 2009 model, but not green. No stop band in the setup here whatsoever. Its getting curiouser and curiouser...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspected my SWiM was green, but in now physically removing it from a mounted position, found it erroneous in making that assumption. :eek2:
> 
> It's an October, 2009 model, but not green. No stop band in the setup here whatsoever. Its getting curiouser and curiouser...


Since you're using both outputs of the SWM8, a external bandstop filter would block the DECA to the other output.
To bring you more "inline" with other installs, changing over to using only one output and mounting the bandstop filter on the input of the first splitter, would make your setup more "common".
I can't/shouldn't try to put numbers to how many would have to "tweak their system", but would guess it to be a small number out of all the installs, since it seems to be coming down to small changes in the length of the coax.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Since you're using both outputs of the SWM8, a external bandstop filter would block the DECA to the other output.
> *To bring you more "inline" with other installs, changing over to using only one output and mounting the bandstop filter on the input of the first splitter, would make your setup more "common".*I can't/shouldn't try to put numbers to how many would have to "tweak their system", but would guess it to be a small number out of all the installs, since it seems to be coming down to small changes in the length of the coax.


I'm going to do that a bit later today...and observe the results.

Putting 2 HD DVRs and 2 HD recievers on one 4-port green splitter (6 tuners) would be easy to test here...so I'll do that.


----------



## jasonki32 (Jan 29, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> "That post" doesn't have all the info.
> The SWM8 already had the bandstop filter, since it is a green label/stickered unit.
> As we're seeing, the location/position of the filter does/can have an affect.
> Please don't think that just removing it is the cure all to this problem.
> There is MUCH more to this.


My SWM8 is over a year old, so I doubt it has the green sticker. I have tried the filter in different locations with pretty much the same numbers. I even ordered green label splitters to see if that would help. So until I figure something else out, this is the solution for the time being.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm fairly interested in those using this setup:









That are having problems.
Those using the SWiMLNB with the green sticker/label, could have phasing/cable length issues, but if the filter mounted on the splitter turns out to be the best, then the BSF could be added.

For anyone trying to follow what all this is:
The signal at the splitter input could look like this:









The pigtail on the filter is very close to being the right length to have the signal become this:









If this is the case, then the DECA performance should improve.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Here's my readings just to see the impact, using the SWM8 / Green DECA - all off one green splitter:

*ORIGINAL READINGS WITH NO BSF (for comparison):*

Dropped Session Count is *0*



0 NODE -
*33*
--- 248 252 249 252 252
1 NODE - N/A -- 250 245 253 250 249 (
*HR24*
) 
2 NODE -
*32*
--- 247 253 235 251 250
3 NODE -
*29*
--- 247 253 252 246 249 (
*H24*
) 
4 NODE -
*32*
--- 245 248 249 246 242
*READINGS WITH THE BSF INSTALLED:*

Dropped Session Count is *0*



0 NODE -
*42*
---
*189 229 217 252 222*

1 NODE - N/A --
*223 210 228 232 228 *
(
*HR24*
) 
2 NODE -
*45*
---
*207 224 201 222 223*

3 NODE -
*42*
---
*204 229 222 182 227 *
(
*H24*
) 
4 NODE -
*45*
---
*215 228 224 225 205*


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's my readings just to see the impact, using the SWM8 / Green DECA - all off one green splitter:
> 
> *ORIGINAL READINGS WITH NO BSF (for comparison):*
> 
> ...


Clearly there is a different path being used in your setup between these two tests.
The losses show this, with an increase of:
The HR24 to:
Node 0 +9 dB
Node 2 +13 dB
Node 3 +13 dB
Node 4 +13 dB

While the power levels are still within working range [greater the 60 is a problem], you've reduced your bit-rate by 20+%.

"Houston, we have a problem"
Time to either post your whole layout here or PM it to me for some serious investigation.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Clearly there is a different path being used in your setup between these two tests.
> 
> "Houston, we have a problem"
> Time to either post your whole layout here or PM it to me for some serious investigation.


The paths are identical, with the exception of adding the SBF.

Performance (Whole Home DVR Service or MediaShare) is not a problem whatsoever without the SBF installed, so I'm unclear what exactly there is to investigate. In fact - that has been the case even prior to the green spliltters installed, although the readings are now slightly better after going "green".

We can do via PM...but as of now - very pleased with the performance and readings.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The paths are identical, with the exception of adding the SBF.
> 
> Performance (Whole Home DVR Service or MediaShare) is not a problem whatsoever without the SBF installed, so I'm unclear what exactly there is to investigate. In fact - that has been the case even prior to the green spliltters installed, although the readings are now slightly better after going "green".
> 
> We can do via PM...but as of now - *very pleased with the performance and readings*.



they suck
you'll fail the system test with at or below 215


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> they suck
> you'll fail the system test with at or below 215


I feel a bit guilty mentioning this....but I pass the system test on *all units*.

All readings are in the 240's and 250's now. 

Sucks to be me.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I feel a bit guilty mentioning this....but I pass the system test on *all units*.
> 
> All readings are in the 240's and 250's now.
> 
> Sucks to be me.


But not as much [in my eyes] since you've cleared this up so others don't fall down "your suck hole".


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I feel a bit guilty mentioning this....but I pass the system test on all units.

All readings are in the 240's and 250's now. 

I Guess GOD Loves Me!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> But not as much [in my eyes] since you've cleared this up so others don't fall down "your suck hole".


!rolling

That's the ultimate goal - make *everyone* whole.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> I feel a bit guilty mentioning this....but I pass the system test on all units.
> 
> All readings are in the 240's and 250's now.
> 
> I Guess GOD Loves Me!!! :lol:


Aren't you on a SWiM-16? those are a whole other kettle of fish.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Aren't you on a SWiM-16? those are a whole other kettle of fish.


Yeah...he's one of THOSE (SWiM 16) people... :lol:

Sounds like its comparing trout and bass I suppose.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah...he's one of THOSE (SWiM 16) people... :lol:
> 
> Sounds like its comparing trout and bass I suppose.


While the SWiM-16 does have bandstop filters, It ALSO has the crossover to the other SWiM output. This means the "bounce" doesn't happen off the filter, as it goes through the crossover instead.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> While the SWiM-16 does have bandstop filters, It ALSO has the crossover to the other SWiM output. This means the "bounce" doesn't happen off the filter, as it goes through the crossover instead.


That is good to know, and interesting to some (like me), even if one doesn't have the SWiM16. I'll get off your lawn now.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

VOS, here are the results of removing the BSF and using the one built into the LNB (50' coax run to the LNB from where the internal BSF had been).

With BSF between PI and Splitter and With BSF built into LNB at dish:
0 HR24 N/A N/A
1 NODE- 32 33
2 NODE- 36 35
3 H24- 34 33
4 NODE- 35 37
Dropped Session Count is 0

With BSF:
211 232 237 246 236
240 215 224 238 244
239 232 211 236 232
248 229 230 205 233
236 238 219 238 206

With LNB internal BSF:
245 250 250 251 249
253 237 242 250 243
251 247 237 249 245
252 250 241 237 242
251 245 243 247 238


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> VOS, here are the results of removing the BSF and using the one built into the LNB (50' coax run to the LNB from where the internal BSF had been).
> 
> With BSF between PI and Splitter and With BSF built into LNB at dish:
> 0 HR24 N/A N/A
> ...


That sure looks like a "no brainer".
Don't use an external bandstop filter unless you have problems with the internal, or more correctly the placement of it in your system.


----------



## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> VOS, here are the results of removing the BSF and using the one built into the LNB (50' coax run to the LNB from where the internal BSF had been).
> 
> With BSF between PI and Splitter...


Davenlr,
To be clear, was your BSF directly connected to the splitter input port?


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

lonnie58 said:


> Davenlr,
> To be clear, was your BSF directly connected to the splitter input port?


No, it was connected to the receiver out on the power inserter for the the SWMLNB, and then a 3 foot piece of coax from the BSF to the input on the 8 way splitter. This weekend, Ill try other various locations and see what the results are.


----------



## lonnie58 (Jun 10, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> No, it was connected to the receiver out on the power inserter for the the SWMLNB, and then a 3 foot piece of coax from the BSF to the input on the 8 way splitter. This weekend, Ill try other various locations and see what the results are.


Ahhh, the test case VOS was looking for is attaching the BSF directly to the splitter input.

In my case, it makes a LOT of difference, and the best results are when the BSF is directly connected (via the short pigtail) to the splitter input.

In your case, adding the BSF directly to the splitter input may/may-not improve your current good data rates, but shouldn't be as bad as your previous BSF test. (my guess)

Lonnie


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

lonnie58 said:


> Ahhh, the test case VOS was looking for is attaching the BSF directly to the splitter input.
> 
> In my case, it makes a LOT of difference, and the best results are when the BSF is directly connected (via the short pigtail) to the splitter input.
> 
> ...


Yup.

The lessons learned here are that each physical location may have variances that impact the affects, based on if and where the Band Stop Filter is installed.

In my case, no BSF...yet I get very strong signal results.

In other installations, the BSF is very important, and the (final) exact location will have a bearing on results as well. Davenlr's experience seems to bear out this point.

Some experimentation and testing may be needed to determine the best location/results...however, Mr. VOS is working hard here to see if some solid "rules of thumb" can be established. Nice work on this so far.


----------



## rgraetz (Sep 3, 2006)

rgraetz said:


> Talked to the tech that came out yesterday and they are going to swap out everything. Both HR24's, LNB, splitter, PI, network DECA...


Just wanted to provide an update to my issue. We did not switch out all the hardware like the tech thought we should because since I disconnected the coax to the wall from the SWiM PI and things started working they have continued to work all this week so far. My tests all pass and phy rates look great. I am continuing to monitor it and hope changing the wall plate connectors really did fix the issue.


----------



## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

The HR20/100 chart was perfect. I didnt understand the SBF but now I do and it is working perfectly.

My problem now is my HR21/100. I leased if from DirecTv and it came with nothing. I have since received a DECA but it will not connect to the Whole home system. I do not have a two way "green" splitter that I am using with the HR20/100. 

Do I need a splitter and if so how do I hook it up?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> The HR20/100 chart was perfect. I didnt understand the SBF but now I do and it is working perfectly.
> 
> My problem now is my HR21/100. I leased if from DirecTv and it came with nothing. I have since received a DECA but it will not connect to the Whole home system. I do not have a two way "green" splitter that I am using with the HR20/100.
> 
> ...


Probably be helpful if you explain your set-up. E.g., Is the co-ax you are trying to connect to your HR21's DECA connected at it's other end to a green splitter?


----------



## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Steve,

Thanks. Listed below is my setup:

SL5S4R2-03 with single coax line into a (8 port) SWS8WBP (powered by Pl21R1-03) out to a DECA1MR0-01 into the SWM coax port of the HR21/100.

On DECA the CLINK light is blinking orange, NTWK light is not lit and power light is green.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Alan


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks. Listed below is my setup:
> 
> ...


Have you connected the small CAT5 cable from the DECA to the RJ-45 port on the back of the HR21?

The SWS8WBP is not a "green-labeled" splitter, but it should still work OK.


----------



## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

yes


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> yes


Which RJ-45 port? I would try switching ports to see if you can get the DECA network light to turn on.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

I assume you have rebooted/restarted the receiver since installing the deca and connecting the ethernet cable from the deca to the top port on the HR21-100.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

If the reboot or switching to the top port doesn't work, I just checked with *VOS*, and he points out that you may need to replace your SWS8WBP with a green-labeled splitter, because it will provide about 15db more signal throughput to your DECA adapter.

I just tried to simulate reduced throughput by removing the coax "in" from one of my working DECA's. With no incoming signal, the network light went out.

Looks like with your set-up, replacing the 8-way with a 4-way green labeled splitter like *this* would give you enough ports for two HR's and another DECA to your router, for broadband connectivity, and one port for future use.


----------



## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Yes I had rebooted/restarted after hooking up (with DECA installed).

Also, I switched from top CAT5 port to bottom port and back with no change.

Do you think it might need a splitter and SBF like the HR20/100?

Lastly, the receiver does have a reconditioned sticker on it. Could it simply be defective?

I'm a novice so I really appreciate your assistance.

Alan


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> Yes I had rebooted/restarted after hooking up (with DECA installed).
> 
> Also, I switched from top CAT5 port to bottom port and back with no change.
> 
> ...


See my post just above yours about the splitter.

One way you can make sure your HR21's network is OK is to try directly connecting the top port via cat5 to your router or switch, if that's possible. If so, MRV between the two boxes will still work, until you get the green-labeled splitter.

I have 6 boxes in my MRV network. 5 connected DECA and one connected CAT5, with no issues.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Yes I had rebooted/restarted after hooking up (with DECA installed).
> 
> Also, I switched from top CAT5 port to bottom port and back with no change.
> 
> ...



only the HR20-100 needs the splitter/filter for the DECA. All other receivers either get a bandstop filer or a DECA.
Who installed this system?
If this is a self install, then you may need a bandstop filter at the first splitter, unless the SWiM LNB has a green sticker/label on it.
Any guess as to how long the coax runs are from the 8-way splitter?


----------



## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Would a green labeled 2 way splitter work at the DECA? The reason I asked is because I should have given you my whole system. I actually have:

1 - HR21/100 DRV
4 - H23-600

So it is my understanding that I need 4 freq for the 4 H23's and 2 freq for the HR21/100. That would be 5 ports of the 7 available. If I replaced the 8 port with a 4 port green then I would come up short.

Could I use a 2 port green label splitter before the DECA at the HR21?

Alan


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Would a green labeled 2 way splitter work at the DECA? The reason I asked is because I should have given you my whole system. I actually have:
> 
> 1 - HR21/100 DRV
> 4 - H23-600
> ...


It not a question of "frequencies" but merely ports.
You could use one of these: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...er-(2-2150-MHz)&c=Amplifiers&sku=874409002084

Or you could use a mix of: 
one of these http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...itter-(2-2150-MHz)&c=Satellite Splitters&sku=

And then a 2-way [which you seem to already have] like this: 
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...0-MHz)&c=Satellite Splitters&sku=874409002404

The 8-way may be the simplest, but the 4-way has less loss and if you connect the 2-way to the 4-way [giving you the 5 ports you need] then the 3 ports off the 4-way will have a higher signal and I'd use them on the longer coax runs, and then use the 2-way for the shortest runs.
The idea here is to try to equalize the signal levels between all the receivers. If your coax runs are all about the same from the first splitter, then it may not be worth anything compared to the 8-way.
Now that we know the number of receivers you have,
Is the orange cLink only on one and the other four are green?
You still have a bandstop filter from the old receiver, right? If so connect it to the current splitter's input. This will change the RF signal path and may change the color of the cLink.
Then I might try swapping DECAs between a good receiver and the problem receiver [assuming you have good receivers].


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

The HR21 DECA only has one cLink light and it's my understanding that the other 4 H23's dont need a DECA (or at least none are attached).

Yes I do have the BSF so you are saying that I should connect it between the coax from the dish and the 8 way splitter?

Lastly, I cant swap DECA's because I only have one that is connected to the HR21. 

Could my problem be that I need DECA's on the H23's?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> The HR21 DECA only has one cLink light and it's my understanding that the other 4 H23's dont need a DECA (or at least none are attached).
> 
> Yes I do have the BSF so you are saying that I should connect it between the coax from the dish and the 8 way splitter?
> 
> ...


:bang

:kickbutt:

"Well yeah", you need to have at least 2 DECAs to have a network. These transmit and receive, but they need to talk to someone else to do this.

So:
What I would do is...
Get the green 8-way splitter, mount a bandstop filter on its input.
Drop a coax near the router for the DECA that bridges to your home network.
Get a DECA for each receiver and get a DECA with PI which looks like this:









This will mean having a DECA on each receiver and another to connect to the internet.
This is a true "connected home" setup.

If you don't/can't do this then you need to use ethernet for everything.


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Its my understanding that the 4 H23's have the DECA's built in. Also the HR20 worked when it was the DVR connected without any other receivers having a external DECA.

Also I'm not needing VOD I only want and had WholeHome DVR setup. 

I had the HR20/100 with DECA, splitter & SBF with other receivers without external DECA's and it worked. I upgraded to the HR21/100 to get a larger harddrive.

I feel like I'm wasting too much of your time so I may just go back to the HR20 and get a credit for the HR21.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Alan


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

aspain said:


> Its my understanding that the 4 H23's have the DECA's built in.


Only the HX24's have internal DECA.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Its my understanding that the 4 H23's have the DECA's built in. Also the HR20 worked when it was the DVR connected without any other receivers having a external DECA.
> 
> Also I'm not needing VOD I only want and had WholeHome DVR setup.
> 
> ...


The icons in my earlier post were to be taken as funny.
The H23s don't have DECA internally. It's the H24s that do.
The HR21 has the same size hard drive as the HR20. It's the HR22 and above that have the larger drives.
I'll be glad to still offer help [without my "funnys"] if you can post your hardware a bit more accurately.
OK, you/we don't need to worry about internet access.
Do you really have H23s or are they H24s?
Knowing this, there are things I can offer to help.


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

I thought the H23's had the DECA's built in. 

After all my HR20 operated as a WHDVR without any other receivers having a DECA. I upgraded to the HR21 to increase harddrive space.

I appreciate your time but feel I have taken up too much. Thank you for your assistance.

Alan


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Sorry I resent the previous post because I didnt see the first one post. I did not take your "funny's" as an insult. I have a good since of humor. I just have a gut instinct when I may be in over my head and wasting someone's time.

If you dont mind I would like to try and figure it out. So I checked all four non DVR receivers and they are all H23/600's and then the HR21/100.

Based on what you are saying it it your opinion that with DirecTV, knowing that I have the SWM & WH system, should have provided me with DECA's for each receiver I ordered?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Sorry I resent the previous post because I didnt see the first one post. I did not take your "funny's" as an insult. I have a good since of humor. I just have a gut instinct when I may be in over my head and wasting someone's time.
> 
> If you dont mind I would like to try and figure it out. So I checked all four non DVR receivers and they are all H23/600's and then the HR21/100.
> 
> Based on what you are saying it it your opinion that with DirecTV, knowing that I have the SWM & WH system, should have provided me with DECA's for each receiver I ordered?


I'm glad you do have a sense of humor, though mine can be fairly warped at times.
The H23s have the wideband tuners, but no DECAs.
The HR21 has a 320 GB drive verses the HR20 [early ones] has a 300 GB drive.

Did you pay DirecTV to have the connected home upgrade? If so then all of your receivers needed to have a DECA on each. The HR20-100 is unique in the way the DECA needs to be connected.
If you have H23s and even with the HR20-100 setup, there needed to be DECAs on the H23s for this to work.
So far, what you've posted doesn't sound like it was done correctly. That SWS8 splitter needs to have been a green one like I linked to earlier.
Then you need a DECA for all your receivers.
Add in a bandstop filter which you "may need" on the dish/first splitter [if you use one and it "wasn't needed", everything still works].
You should have a PI [power inserter] somewhere to power the SWiM/dish.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

This is a bit more than what you have, but should give you an idea of the setup:


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

That makes perfect sense. I will contact DTV and inquire about why I didn't get DECA's for each H23 or ask them why I didn't get H24's.

Thanks again for your help.

Alan
(I may be back in a week or so!)


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> That makes perfect sense. I will contact DTV and inquire about why I didn't get DECA's for each H23 or ask them why I didn't get H24's.
> 
> Thanks again for your help.
> 
> ...


And if you don't already have it, don't forget to tell them you want a DECA with extra power inserter for your interenet connection as well. They won't assume it, and they need to put that on the work order for the installer.


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Just so I'm clear, the DECA for the Internet connection would be for VOD correct? If so I'm not ready because I dont have a coax run near my router and it's my understanding that DirecTV will not mail out the VOD internet kit. I would have to have it installed with the installation charge.

Just out of curiosoty what is the difference between the 8 port switch I got and the green one? 

Also to clarify, did I understand you to say that I should consider buying a 4 port green and 2 port green then run a short coax out of one of the ports on the 4 to the 2 and then from the 2 to the furthermost two locations and then the other 3 to the shortest locations, then does that mean that the 4 port does not need a power adapter or does the 4 actually have 5 ports (1 for power and 4 for ports)?

If you are up for a phone conversation I would compensate you. If so call me at 205-913-9021.

Alan


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Just so I'm clear, the DECA for the Internet connection would be for VOD correct? If so I'm not ready because I dont have a coax run near my router and it's my understanding that DirecTV will not mail out the VOD internet kit. I would have to have it installed with the installation charge.
> 
> Just out of curiosoty what is the difference between the 8 port switch I got and the green one?
> 
> ...


One thing that we/I should know is did you have DirecTV do this install? "yes/no". I ask because while I can still help either way, "what to do" might change if they installed it.

The connection to the home network/internet is for things like VOD, being able to use TVApps, and there will be more things coming that will use the internet. With the connection to your home network, you can media share from your PC and watch recording from the DVR on your PC.

Now why a "green label"* splitter* [these are not switches] is needed is because they're modified to work with the DECA signal, which other splitters are not. "Bottom line" is they have less loss for DECA.

All of the green splitters have one port the passes power to the SWiM.
An 8-way has 8 outputs [1 input]
a 4-way has 4 outputs

I can go into great detail about splitters and how best to combine them, but first I need to know who did this install. If DirecTV had anything to do with it, then they need to come back out and fix their mess. This would be the time for them to add another drop near your router.


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

No they would not foot the bill for the install but I did tell them that I had upgraded to a SWM dish so I would have thought they would have included either receivers with built in DECAs or external DECA's.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> Just so I'm clear, the DECA for the Internet connection would be for VOD correct? If so I'm not ready because I dont have a coax run near my router [...]


The coax run doesn't need to be near your router. The "broadband" DECA can plug into any available network connection in your home that's also near a coax location you can split.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> No they would not foot the bill for the install but I did tell them that I had upgraded to a SWM dish so I would have thought they would have included either receivers with built in DECAs or external DECA's.


"OK" so this is all DIY. You do need some more DECAs and whether you go for the internet connection is up to you.
To get this to work, you either need to use ethernet or to change over to all DECA, which means at least getting a 8-way green splitter, a bandstop filter, and enough DECAs for each receiver. To this you could add another DECA + PI and either run ethernet, wireless, or powerline adapter to your router.
Since you need at least 5 ports to feed your receivers, and you might want to have the network bridge, the 8-way looks to be the better choice right now.


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## bruceko (Dec 14, 2006)

Dumb me but how do you run the network performance test?


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## aspain (Jul 30, 2010)

Ok, I have doctored up your image to make sure I'm doing this right.

Also are these statements correct?

I could eliminate the DECA's if I had H24's or any other receivers that have built in DECA's.

In lieu of DECA's I could plug the CAT5 directly into my router. By doing so does this provide Whole Home and VOD?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

aspain said:


> Ok, I have doctored up your image to make sure I'm doing this right.


Looks good.



> Also are these statements correct?
> 
> I could eliminate the DECA's if I had H24's or any other receivers that have built in DECA's.


Yes. You just need the one "broadband" DECA to connect to your home network.



> In lieu of DECA's I could plug the CAT5 directly into my router. By doing so does this provide Whole Home and VOD?


Yes and Yes. You won't get any support from DirecTV, tho.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aspain said:


> Ok, I have doctored up your image to make sure I'm doing this right.
> 
> Also are these statements correct?
> 
> ...


Looks right and you should add the bandstop filter to the splitter's input.


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