# Do I want 721's L1.10 software ???



## Adrian_R (Jul 5, 2002)

Hello all! As a long time 501 owner and a brand new 721 owner who just had to deal with the no program guide bug in my first week of owning the 721, I'm wonder if I want to update my 721 to L1.10 when it comes out, or wait for a (long) while?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Dish and the 721, and this is NOT meant as flame bait, but Dish's previous track record on PVRs hasn't been great, and from what I've read on another thread, L1.10 is going to add allot of new (read 'complicated' to code) features. I'm wondering how buggy this new version of the software is going to be???

My 721 has already hung twice and has been sluggish, as well as the beforementioned lost program guide for three days, all on the first week. I get a sense from reading this forum (and I just donated $5 to it) that Dish is trying harder on the QA issue, but I'm "multiple times bitten, completely shy" at this point.

For those 721 owners out there, what are you going to do when L1.10 becomes available? 

Comments/thoughts?


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## Ken Seeber (Oct 23, 2002)

The guide issue wasn't so much a 721 problem as it was a software problem in the guide itself.

As far as software upgrades, as far as I know you don't have a choice. The software downloads automatically when it becomes available and installs itself the next time you turn the receiver on. There's not much you can do to prevent it.


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

You don't have a choice with upgrades. That's one of the things I'm not thrilled with either. No matter what you do, eventually the receiver is gonna grab the update, whether you like it or not.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

The bad news is that the software for the 721 is still buggy, as was the 501 software when it was new. The good news is that the 501 has become fairly stable over time, so there is hope for the 721. The fact that the update is ambitious is both good and bad news...since the software needs a lot of work, it is gratifying to see that it will be forthcoming, but the amount of change is scary. I'll be happy if the proposed fix for the 2nd tuner pixellation problem is fixed. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Any ideas when this build will be available?


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## Adrian_R (Jul 5, 2002)

Didn't realize that you can't tell the 721 not to take updates, like you can with the 501/8. Oh well, guess I'll just cross my fingers.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

L1.10 is NICE!!!!

You guys will really like it, I have been sick lately so I have been home trying to break L1.10 with out an success. 

It seems to me really solid! 

(Of course I am not like some of you who can find a way to make it crash by pressing the info button and number 7 on the remote while pressing the sysinfo button on the front of the 721 while whistling Dixie while wearing black pants on a Saturday like some people do) 

It seems after each release we have someone who can crash the new software by doing things and pressing button combinations in ways that were never thought of.


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## DmitriA (Aug 6, 2002)

There is a full-proof way of crashing the 721 by fast forwarding back and forth a little too fast. The screen then just freezes and the unit becomes unresponsive to any buttons and a cold reboot has to be done.
Have you tried doing that with L1.10?

BTW, I tried using the front jack inputs today and got terrible sound (hiss all over the place) out of it (picture was good). The source was the wireless transmitter, so at first I thought it might be interference from it, but when I connected it directly to the receiver, the sound was perfect. Has anyone else experienced that with their 721s or is that just my receiver?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think there is more potential with the 721 with features and fixes than the 501/508 but at the same time more likely for more problems.


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## Adrian_R (Jul 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *L1.10 is NICE!!!!
> 
> You guys will really like it, I have been sick lately so I have been home trying to break L1.10 with out an success.
> ...


Ok, I'll remind you about this later! 

(By the ways, hope you are feeling better.)



> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *(Of course I am not like some of you who can find a way to make it crash by pressing the info button and number 7 on the remote while pressing the sysinfo button on the front of the 721 while whistling Dixie while wearing black pants on a Saturday like some people do)
> *


Ha! Seriously though, in the short time I've owned my 721, my feelings is that its more sensitive to speed/combination of buttons pressed on the remote, compared to my 501. The slow-mo controlling on the 501 seems better than the 721 (easier to use/more precise). I've already had a couple of hangs after my son tries to rip forward 30 seconds a couple of times in a row. Also starting to have audio dropouts too. For us these things were never a problem on the 501. This is why I'm nervous about 1.10.



> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> * It seems after each release we have someone who can crash the new software by doing things and pressing button combinations in ways that were never thought of.  *


Yes. Sometimes I think that the 721 is just busy and not responding to remote control key presses, and so the human presses even MORE keys and gets the 721 all riled up! 

Maybe Dish should put a "busy" light on the 721 (blink the power light or something else). Or perhaps fixes are needed to make sure the 721 is always responds in real-time (that is if I'm right about the 721 being delayed in processing commands from the remote)???


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

I Love my 721!

I am very much looking forward to 1.10 ... And Scott .. Thanks for all of your work to keep us informed and interfaced to the 721 team! KUDOS to you!

That being said first and foremost ... a little additional qualification. ...

The 721 does have a few bugs, And even tough I may "fuss a bit" when I run into them, I pretty much expect them too. This is cutting edge stuff (for the low cost platform they are trying to implement it on ... we are not talking high end components here !). 

With bleeding edge you expect a few quirks!

So ... 1.10 represents yet another exciting step in the progress of this still very young product type. And we get to participate in all of the fun !! 

p.s. how do I sign up for beta testing?


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Relatively speaking though this has been the most stable PVR that E* has made. The 501 had some serious early problems, and let's not even mention the Dishplayer (I still have two, and I have been lucky enough NOT to need 8675309 or 32768 lately, but I used those codes a couple of dozen times in 2000-2002, although I haven't had to yet in 2003, although they are now relegated to light duty backup use)

Last weeks guide glitch was the first major problem I hit, other than a few spontaneous resets when it was recording two shows and I was jumping forward and back on a recorded show.....


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Maybe Dish is improving their product each time in which is why its becoming more reliable, learning from their mistakes and fixing them. I do still think there are some issues with their products. Just image receivers at nearly a grand going bad and Dish giving you the runaround because they dont want all that expense replacing or repairing them and how mad the customers would be about that expensive of a unit going bad or bad bugs in them.


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

Scott, does 110 fix the X screen reboot, did you ever get that on 108 or 109, thats when it started..
thanks, looking forward to the triple conflict timer screen


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Yes I did get the X reboot in the older versions of the software (You would press channel up or down the unit was freeze then you would see the green screen with the X, and it would go through and reboot.)

With the L1.10 software I have NOT had this happen. (knock on wood)


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *L1.10 is NICE!!!!
> 
> It seems after each release we have someone who can crash the new software by doing things and pressing button combinations in ways that were never thought of.  *


THATS ME Just nickname us crash

Seriously E needs beta testers like me and jen to help unearth everything really wierd

Beta software should be to those who will REALLY put it thru its paces.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob,

I agree. Echostar needs to expand their beta software testing to more "real world" conditions. "Regular" users do things (and find things) that in-house testers never do.


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

I for one will agree that they seriously need more real-world testers. But this needs to be from one extreme to the other, from the casual user (few timers, some on the spot recording) to extreme users (like those who stretch the timers to their limits).

I'll repeat myself again that I did not buy a 721 to be a beta tester. Being in software development myself, I'm well aware of the issue of bugs when new things come out. Honestly, if the 721 wasn't stable enough to be ready for the market, it shouldn't have been released, even from vendors that sold it before DishNetwork did. Nothing is prone to being error free. Yet the variety and frequency of these problems seems far beyond what would be considered tolerable. Not to mention the time between fixes to correct problems is unacceptable.

I've have so many problems with mine, from pixelation, stuttering, audio drop-out, and more, that I'm amazed I've stayed with Dish. Yet it's the need more then anything. I can't tell you how many times DirecTV has called me wanting to get me back, and how many times I've refused, even with the problems. Although there may come a day soon where I take them up on that.

It's too bad that Advanced Tech Support has to be the way it is, hit or miss. Sometimes you get someone who admits there's the issue, and gives you the all knowing "no idea when a fix will be available" speech. At least he/she is honest (I hope). Flagrant lies from other tech people, saying the problem has never been reported, that it doesn't exist, and to run every reset possible on the unit, and then some, just cuts right to the very core of my bad mood.

There is no communication from Dish about problems. There is no notification about what's being fixed and when. And while I've experienced pixelation, both live and on recordings for months now, there still isn't the slightest hint that a fix will be coming out, if it's software related. I can hear some things from Scott who's testing the L1.10 version, but what happens when it goes live? What happens when the same problems rear their ugly heads again? How many times must the same issue be sent to Dish before they finally resolve it?

Oh yeah, the guide was resolved. (sarcastic tone intended) There is nothing that Dish does to let their customers know that they're aware of the problem. Certainly nothing like DirecTV had with messages (a flashing light alerted you to a message). Instead, you have to come to places like this to find out you're not alone. Not having the guide is a big issue. But so is audio drop-outs on 300, and pixelation or stuttering during live or recorded programs.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Danbo,

Very well said! I couldn't have said it better myself and I totally agree with you on all points.


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