# Is a Joey required?



## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

We currently have a 622 that has performed well for many years but the hdmi output has now died and we are starting to see other anomalies as well. The one receiver feeds the living room tv (TV1) and the rest of the house gets TV2 output (TV2 used for bedroom, den, office and spare room TVs) via coax off some sort of splitter attached. We're one of those odd couples who don't watch different shows from each other and don't need to control the dvr from other rooms so no need for a second receiver of any type. 

My question - can we have this same setup if we upgrade to the Hopper? Or will Joeys be required to receive tv in each of those rooms?

Another question, we are currently paying 74.99 for AT250 and 7.00 dvr service fee. Are there additional fees that will apply with the Hopper? 

I would love to upgrade to the Hopper - looks like a great receiver but don't want to have to go the "Joey" route.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Long time no see-a-post...

I could be wrong, but I think you will need a Joey. I do not believe there is a coaxial distribution option on the Hopper.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Hi Stewart - guess a satisfied customer means a "non-posting" customer! But I always know that when I have questions, this is the place to be!

Bummer about having to get Joeys. Didn't want the extra expense for rooms where we rarely watch tv. Guess I'll consider a 722 instead.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There is no coax output on the Hopper but RF modulators are easily available that can be connected to the SD outputs and feed RF to another set. I would not give up on having a Hopper simply because of the lack of an RF output.

All outputs should be hot and showing the same program ... so HDMI to the local TV and SD via RF to the second TV would be similar to what you are getting on TV1 of the 622. If you want TV2 to be different a Joey would be required.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> There is no coax output on the Hopper but RF modulators are easily available that can be connected to the SD outputs and feed RF to another set. I would not give up on having a Hopper simply because of the lack of an RF output.
> 
> All outputs should be hot and showing the same program ... so HDMI to the local TV and SD via RF to the second TV would be similar to what you are getting on TV1 of the 622. If you want TV2 to be different a Joey would be required.


I'm wondering if that (RF modulator) is what I already have on the 622. You're allowed to giggle at my non-tech terms: There is a little box where the dual satellite antenna cables go in and then there is another little box where the lines go out to the other TVs. Do you think one of these is an RF modulator or is it simply a splitter? Would have to dismantle my shelving to look at it!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Huh. Well, the whole reason I was entertaining the idea of the upgrade was because I thought my 622 was approaching death. I've been experiencing a "lockup" issue (black screen, no response to remote control) for the last few days. Now I see that this issue has been being experienced by people on various units, 622 included, for the last year. So I'm hoping it's a software problem and that they will fix it! In the meantime, I am backing up all my recordings to my EHD, just in case.

Thank you, James and Stewart, for your input and assistance!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The current box is likely a type of splitter (called a separator) that allows the TV signal and satellite signal to be carried on the same coax. It does not create the RF signal ... that is done by the modulator inside the 622.

A modulator would be a separate powered box with RCA inputs and coax output.
Here is an image of one (styles vary):


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I hadn't thought of James' idea... I always forget about RF modulators.

That would be a possible way to go, especially if you don't need the bells/whistles you get from a Joey.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> The current box is likely a type of splitter (called a separator) that allows the TV signal and satellite signal to be carried on the same coax. It does not create the RF signal ... that is done by the modulator inside the 622.
> 
> A modulator would be a separate powered box with RCA inputs and coax output.
> Here is an image of one (styles vary):





Stewart Vernon said:


> I hadn't thought of James' idea... I always forget about RF modulators.
> 
> That would be a possible way to go, especially if you don't need the bells/whistles you get from a Joey.


Thanks, guys! If the DIRT that contacted me can't resolve the problems we're having with our 622, this may be the way I can get a Hopper with all its wonderful memory and some new bells & whistles!

So, if I do go this direction, the cable that would normally go to the Joeys would connect to the input of the modulator and then my TV2 cabling would connect to the output of the modulator so the modulator would push the signal to the rest of the house - is this correct?

I appreciate the clarification, the images and the assistance!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> The current box is likely a type of splitter (called a separator) that allows the TV signal and satellite signal to be carried on the same coax. It does not create the RF signal ... that is done by the modulator inside the 622.
> 
> A modulator would be a separate powered box with RCA inputs and coax output.
> Here is an image of one (styles vary):


 Ok, wait a second, I just re-read your post. So the rca outputs from the Hopper would go into the modulator and the coax output would then transmit the signal to the rest of the house with my TV2 coax that I now use.

So now I would only need to split the rca outputs because they would need to feed both the modulator and the dvd recorder I use for recording old movies to take on our camping trips! And that's no big deal because there are tons of rca composite splitters out there!

Thanks again for your help, James!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Just a reminder (and it seems you are on the right path) that the "TV2" cable needs to be separate than the coax feeding the Hopper. If you will be feeding OTA to the Hopper (using a OTA module) that needs to be separate too. Hopper wiring does not allow combining OTA/TV2 signals with the satellite feed.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> Just a reminder (and it seems you are on the right path) that the "TV2" cable needs to be separate than the coax feeding the Hopper. If you will be feeding OTA to the Hopper (using a OTA module) that needs to be separate too. Hopper wiring does not allow combining OTA/TV2 signals with the satellite feed.


Thanks, James. Yes, the TV2 coax is separate so I plan on running the RCA composite from the Hopper into a composite splitter that will feed both an RF modulator and our dvd recorder. Then I'll output from the modulator to the coax that feeds the rest of the house. We live out in the hills so OTA is not a factor unless you really like watching static! :lol:

If DIRT can't resolve my 622's issues, I'm really hoping that this will work!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Ok, well, I called Dish and, on Monday morning, we will be the proud new lessors of a Hopper and one Joey. Didn't get the sling version because we just don't need the sling abilities - where we camp there isn't any wifi and no cellphone service either! We did get the Joey because the rep I did the order with said they don't charge extra for the Hopper & one Joey - $10 a month period. No charge for the Hopper and no charge for the install so looks like all I'm paying to switch from our 622 is $36 more a year so I'll be happy with that.

I did get my rf modulator and splitters for the rca composite but I'm thinking that I'll just use that Joey - we can always move it to where we need it for as much as we watch tv in other rooms. So I may be taking back the modulator and splitter but I'll have it on hand in case I change my mind once I talk to the install tech. The rep I spoke to indicated that the tech might be able to "suggest" a way that I can have both so we'll see.

Again, thank you, James and Stewart for your input!

Now that I'm getting a new receiver about which I'm sure I'll have questions and I'm over cancer and hubby's recovered from heart surgery (change our names to "Lucky"! :lol you'll probably be seeing more posts from me again!


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

There is no charge for the 1st Hopper but the Joey should run you $7 a month. The dvr charge of $10 for the entire account.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm with garys... that is the first time I've heard of a Hopper and a Joey with no extra charge. IF that makes a difference in your decision, I would definitely double-check that because I too thought it was $7 for the first Joey.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

What a run-around! I was told when I called Dish to ask for the Hopper that I would automatically get a Joey since I was replacing a 622 but that there would be no extra charge since it was only one Joey - the representative I spoke with said that my bill would only be $10 a month not $17. I can't tell you how many times or how many ways I asked him to verify this. Since I'm already cabled to mirror my 622 and I could mirror the hopper via an rf modulator, I didn't really need the Joey but the rep said it would be sent anyway and that I could just stick it in a closet and not use it. He also told me that I didn't need the protection plan to waive the install charge after I told him that I had AT250. Before the installer arrived, I started thinking that having the Joey might be nice because we could get hd on the other tvs but we'd have to move it from room to room and only one other tv at a time would work (couldn't have hubby watching in the office while I watched while changing linens in the bedroom). But at this point I was considering having the Joey hooked up so we'd have HD on the patio.

The installer showed up with a work order for just the Hopper, no Joey, and the installer didn't have any on his truck. After he left, I called Dish to see about the Joey and found out that they had also signed me up for the protection plan which I would have to keep for 4 months to avoid a penalty. The person I spoke with this time not only told me that I had been signed up for the protection plan, but that there would be an additional $7/month for the Joey and that, since I'd signed off on the work order when the installer left that I was now locked into a two year contract and couldn't change anything! 

On top of that, the mirroring isn't working well because the cables under my home are rg59 not rg6. The tv in the office looks crystal clear but the rest of the house is snowy and staticy (rf modulator works well - we ran a line straight out of it to the tv on our patio and the picture was wonderful so we figure the cables going to the other areas are not good or there is a bad splitter under there somewhere that just can't handle the Hopper's output even though it worked for the 622). 

So now my options were to re-cable under my house with newer cables to get the rest of the house working or give up the hopper and get a 722 to replace the 622 that had been taken away. The guy kept trying to brush me off with a "Sorry you're dis-satisfied but you signed off on the work order so have a nice day and thank you for calling Dish" so I demanded a higher level rep (and he was a higher level to begin with) and, at this point, being irate but trying to remain calm, I had him remove the protection plan, scheduled a visit to replace the Hopper with a 722, and flag my account to not be penalized if I don't stay the entire 24 months. I felt like a victim of "bait and switch" and was fed up with the whole situation.

The 722 is scheduled for next week. Now that I've been watching the Hopper for a couple of days, unfortunately, I really like it. The picture is better and the interface is great. So, I'm in a quandary at this point since my remaining TV's no longer work - pictures on all but one are snowy and I have an extremely unhappy husband. I have a cabler coming to tell me what it would cost to re-cable with newer cables under the house and hopefully it's not too much but I still feel like I was totally mis-lead by the Dish reps that I spoke to. 

I spoke with three different reps and they all told me that my bill for dvr service and equipment would be $10 not $17 (and I asked them just that several times, "Will it be a total of $10 or $17?"). It will be expensive to re-cable but at least all my TV's will work again, even though they will only be SD (which hasn't been that big a deal for us as long as the picture was good), and I won't have to shell out $84 per year for a Joey that I would have to move from room to room for the once in a blue moon that I wanted to watch TV elsewhere in the house and that would only work for one room at a time.

Not real pleased with Dish at this point. If I didn't have tons of recordings on an EHD that would be lost, I would change to DirectTV in a heartbeat. That statement is not made lightly; I am a 17 year customer with Dish and was with EchoStar before that.

Mike, the DIRT that had been trying to help me with the 622 pm'd me when he saw that I'd scheduled a Hopper installation. I just pm'd him back with this entire saga as well. 

Not much can be done but I'm not a real happy camper with Dish at this point.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

dbconsultant said:


> On top of that, the mirroring isn't working well because the cables under my home are rg59 not rg6. The tv in the office looks crystal clear but the rest of the house is snowy and staticy


Try picking up a signal amplifier from Radio Shack. This worked for me back when I had a 622 with long runs and splitters.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Debi,

You really haven't figured out the correct Dish ssytem for your TVs. You have 5 TVs? If they are all SD except for the primary, 622/722/922 give you one HD TV and whole home distribution to the SD sets. With a Hopper/Joey system, designed for all HD TVs, you would need 2 Hoppers and 3 Joeys and you would have a fee for each additional HD TV (as with any other provider). The Hopper was not designed for whole home distribution to SD TVs. If you like the interface, get a 922.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> Try picking up a signal amplifier from Radio Shack. This worked for me back when I had a 622 with long runs and splitters.


Thanks. Any specific recommendations on the signal amplifier?


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> What a run-around! I was told when I called Dish to ask for the Hopper that I would automatically get a Joey since I was replacing a 622 but that there would be no extra charge since it was only one Joey - the representative I spoke with said that my bill would only be $10 a month not $17. I can't tell you how many times or how many ways I asked him to verify this. Since I'm already cabled to mirror my 622 and I could mirror the hopper via an rf modulator, I didn't really need the Joey but the rep said it would be sent anyway and that I could just stick it in a closet and not use it. He also told me that I didn't need the protection plan to waive the install charge after I told him that I had AT250. Before the installer arrived, I started thinking that having the Joey might be nice because we could get hd on the other tvs but we'd have to move it from room to room and only one other tv at a time would work (couldn't have hubby watching in the office while I watched while changing linens in the bedroom). But at this point I was considering having the Joey hooked up so we'd have HD on the patio.
> 
> The installer showed up with a work order for just the Hopper, no Joey, and the installer didn't have any on his truck. After he left, I called Dish to see about the Joey and found out that they had also signed me up for the protection plan which I would have to keep for 4 months to avoid a penalty. The person I spoke with this time not only told me that I had been signed up for the protection plan, but that there would be an additional $7/month for the Joey and that, since I'd signed off on the work order when the installer left that I was now locked into a two year contract and couldn't change anything!
> 
> ...


If you were adding Joeys or another Hopper to the mix under the DISH Service Protection Plan the DISH tech would come out and run new cables(coax) or a new dish,whatever you would need, to make it work for $15.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> If you were adding Joeys or another Hopper to the mix under the DISH Service Protection Plan the DISH tech would come out and run new cables(coax) or a new dish,whatever you would need, to make it work for $15.


Because I live in a manufactured home and the cables are all run in the crawl space below the house, the installer said that is not a "standard" install and that they would not do it.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

dbconsultant said:


> Thanks. Any specific recommendations on the signal amplifier?


I've used this one.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103092


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> I've used this one.
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103092


Thanks! I'll be stopping at Radio Shack on my way home today - keep your fingers crossed!


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

FWIW, I got a single Hopper installed to replace my 722. It was impossible to do this online or even through DIRT, but I was able to do it by simply calling a local installer. 

While I've used modulators in the past, and they worked fine, I wanted HD, so I picked up a wireless HDMI system, which worked very well. I used the modulator to share my Hopper with 3 other SD TVs and my wireless HDMI to share it with 2 other HD TVs. I stopped using the modulator when I eventually upgraded all those old sets to HD. If I were buying today, I'd use Moca instead.

BTW, all my modulators came from ebay or walmart and were under $10.

Also realize that this isn't going to work like your old 622 or 722 where you have an independent TV2. With a Hopper and no joeys, all TVs are going to have to watch exactly the same thing. Something to keep in mind.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> Because I live in a manufactured home and the cables are all run in the crawl space below the house, the installer said that is not a "standard" install and that they would not do it.


I do too! and because I'm disabled I made sure when I ordered my system they would replace the coax(actually all the tech has to do is use a barrel coax connector,hook it to one coax connector end,then pull it through).The tech would not have to actually go under the manufactured home(if they knew what to do) when there's coax already under there.

Because your a woman they blew you off,you have got to get tough.The key is have the DISH Service Protection Plan on your account! it covers everything and more concerning your satellite system.Then make sure when you talk to a DISH CSR they know what exactly what you want done and don't put up with any crap from the installer,cancel the install if they do,then call DISH back up tell them what happened and make another appointment.

Good Luck!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

mdavej said:


> FWIW, I got a single Hopper installed to replace my 722. It was impossible to do this online or even through DIRT, but I was able to do it by simply calling a local installer.
> 
> While I've used modulators in the past, and they worked fine, I wanted HD, so I picked up a wireless HDMI system, which worked very well. I used the modulator to share my Hopper with 3 other SD TVs and my wireless HDMI to share it with 2 other HD TVs. I stopped using the modulator when I eventually upgraded all those old sets to HD. If I were buying today, I'd use Moca instead.
> 
> ...


All TVs watching the same thing is not a problem; we used the 622 in single mode because we're one of those strange couples that watch the same thing at the same time (even if one of us is in another room).

What wireless hdmi system did you use? That sounds like another option to consider.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

dbconsultant said:


> All TVs watching the same thing is not a problem; we used the 622 in single mode because we're one of those strange couples that watch the same thing at the same time (even if one of us is in another room).
> 
> What wireless hdmi system did you use? That sounds like another option to consider.


Actiontec MyWirelessTV. Kind of pricey, but significantly cheaper if you find a used one on ebay like I did. Make sure you get the kit with both transmitter and receiver. I found the best way to connect it was HDMI to the transmitter and component to your main TV from the Hopper. Otherwise I would sometimes have HDMI handshake issues (i.e., no picuture).

You can probably walk into your local best buy and get one off the shelf. This would be the best way to at least try one out, in case it doesn't work for you due to range or whatever. Mine worked pretty well from 30' through a couple of floors and walls.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Well, it looks like the DIRT, Mike H., that was trying to help me with my 622 issues has come through! I pm'd him with the same thing I posted here and he called me to see what he could do to make this right.

He ended up setting up a new service call for us for tomorrow to re-cable our whole house (all 6 outlets) and is off-setting the bill to cover the charge. He's also sending out a Joey and is off-setting our bill for the next 20 months to help make up for being mis-lead during my initial phone call. True, with one Joey it means that only one other TV will work at a time and we'll have to disconnect it to move it from room to room but we simply don't watch tv in those other rooms that often so I think it's an acceptable compromise.

I told him that he had restored my faith in Dish and I mean that in all sincerity! 

Thanks, all of you, for your suggestions and assistance, and a big thank you to Mike H. for jumping in and going above and beyond to resolve this situation for us!
:joy:


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

dbconsultant said:


> True, with one Joey it means that only one other TV will work at a time and we'll have to disconnect it to move it from room to room but we simply don't watch tv in those other rooms that often so I think it's an acceptable compromise.


You can still mirror the remaining TVs off the Hopper via the modulator if you want.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> You can still mirror the remaining TVs off the Hopper via the modulator if you want.


Sorry, trying to get my head around modulator and Joey together. Say my husband had Joey going in the office and I wanted to watch TV in the bedroom. Would the modulator be connected with the input being the coax coming out of the wall in the bedroom and the output going to the bedroom TV?

:scratchin


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> Well, it looks like the DIRT, Mike H., that was trying to help me with my 622 issues has come through! I pm'd him with the same thing I posted here and he called me to see what he could do to make this right.
> 
> He ended up setting up a new service call for us for tomorrow to re-cable our whole house (all 6 outlets) and is off-setting the bill to cover the charge. He's also sending out a Joey and is off-setting our bill for the next 20 months to help make up for being mis-lead during my initial phone call. True, with one Joey it means that only one other TV will work at a time and we'll have to disconnect it to move it from room to room but we simply don't watch tv in those other rooms that often so I think it's an acceptable compromise.
> 
> ...


Good Job! Mike H. and DIRT for coming through for a DISH customer in need.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

I am a happy (hoppy?) camper! I now have a house that has been re-cabled and I can move the Joey anywhere in the house to watch tv in any room. 

When the installer showed up, he only had a work order for installing the Joey with nothing about the re-wire. Mike H., the DIRT member that was helping me, had given me his direct number and a phone call to him took care of the problem. He added all the notes needed to get the job done, my installer, Ron, called his supervisor and then headed underneath the house to check out the situation. I gave him a "webster" to fend off spidies and critters.

After confronting an angry gopher and several black spiders the size of small cows (that's how we grow 'em out here), Ron did a great job re-cabling and made sure that all the outlets work and are all set up for the Joey. We carried a tv to each of them to verify functionality and I could not be more pleased - the picture is perfect everywhere! I haven't tried connecting an rf modulator to see if that would work in another room while Joey is elsewhere occupied but I'll try that soon and will post the results.

The best improvement from Dish? Having the DIRT monitoring our forum!!!!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> You can still mirror the remaining TVs off the Hopper via the modulator if you want.


Tried putting an rf modulator on a TV without the joey but got nothing but a blue screen. Oh, well, I knew I would probably be moving the joey around anyway so no big deal.


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