# New Directv Prices



## A_Bear

General Info

New prices start Feb 9, 2012. See Package/Pricing List for details.
Existing customers see new prices on their Bill Cycle Day on/after Feb 9, 2012. 


Customer Notification

New pricing begins on the customer's Bill Cycle Day on/after Feb 9, 2012.
All customers get new pricing notification 30 days before their prices change, by one of the following methods: 
Notice inserted in their January/February bill
Mailer sent by regular mail
E-mail that links customers to an online notification. (E-mail is sent only if we have a valid e-mail on file.)

Package/Pricing

Base Package Former Price Price on/after Feb 9, 2012

Basic Choice (International) $12.99, no locals $12.99 $14.99, no locals $14.99 

Choice $60.99 $63.99 

Choice Xtra (this is a new package) N/A $68.99 
(New package effective Feb 9, 2012) 
Note: Package details will be available closer to Feb 9, 2012.

Choice Xtra Classic - Expired $65.99 $68.99
Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012.
Name changes from "Choice Xtra" to "Choice Xtra Classic" effective Feb 9, 2012.

Choice Ultimate $70.99 $74.99 

Entertainment 
(New package effective Feb 9, 2012.) 
Package details will be available closer to Feb 9, 2012. $54.99 

Family $29.99 $29.99 (no change) 

Jadeworld $39.99 $39.99 (no change) 

Lo Máximo $114.99 $119.99 

Más Latino $34.99 $34.99 (no change) 

Más Ultra $59.99 $62.99 

Optimo Más $44.99 $46.99 

Preferred Choice $39.99, no locals $39.99 $41.99, no locals $41.99 

Premier $114.99 $119.99 

Select - Expired 
(Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012) $44.99 $44.99 (no change) 

Select Classic (retention) $39.99 $41.99 
(Customers with a Select Classic base package see a $2 price adjustment.) 


No change to Premium Service pricing. (Starz Super Pack, Showtime, Sports Pack, HBO, and Cinemax


Other Services Former Price Price on/after Feb 9, 2012

Américas Plus $7.99 $7.99 (no change) 

DVR Service 
(Effective Feb 9, 2012, the name changes from "DVR Service" to "Advanced Receiver-DVR." See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 
$7 $8 

En Español $14.99 $14.99 (no change) 
HD Access 
(Effective Feb 9, 2012, the name changes from "HD Access" to "Advanced Receiver-HD." See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 
$10 $10 (no change) 
Lease/Mirroring Fees 
Effective Feb 9, 2012, the names change to:Additional TV 
Formerly "Additional Receiver," "Mirroring Fee-Household," and "Leased Receiver_Additional."
Primary TV 
Formerly "Primary Leased Receiver."
Primary TV Free 
Formerly "Lease Fee Free Receiver." $6 $6 (no change) 

México Plus $7.99 $7.99 (no change) 

Total Choice Mobile (KVH Mobile) Vehicle only: 
$60.99, no locals $57.99 

Whole-Home DVR Service 
(The name stays the same for existing customers. Customers with an account created on/after Feb 9, 2012 may have a different service. See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 


Advanced Receiver Services (ARS)

Applys only to accounts created prior to Feb 9th 2012
Service name prior to Feb 9, 2012 Service name on/after Feb 9, 2012 

DVR Service Advanced Receiver-DVR (ARS-DVR)
$8/month
Account handling remains unchanged.

HD Access Advanced Receiver-HD (ARS-HD)
$10/month
Account handling remains unchanged.

Whole-Home DVR Service Whole-Home DVR Service
$3/month
The service name and account handling remains unchanged 

Applys only to accounts created on/after to Feb 9th 2012

Service name prior to Feb 9, 2012 Service name on/after Feb 9, 2012 
DVR Service Advanced Receiver-DVR (ARS-DVR)
$8/month
Note:Accounts with HD-DVR, Home Media Center (HMC), or TiVo HD-DVR receivers get the combined "Advanced Receiver (ARS)" service, below.
Accounts with standard definition DVR (only) and HD (only) receivers get billed separately for each service, ARS-DVR ($8) and ARS-HD ($10).

HD Access Advanced Receiver-HD (ARS-HD)
$10/month
Note:Accounts with HD-DVR, Home Media Center (HMC), or TiVo HD-DVR receivers get the combined "Advanced Receiver (ARS)" service, below.
Accounts with standard definition DVR (only) and HD (only) receivers get billed separately for each service, ARS-DVR ($8) and ARS-HD ($10).

Each service was billed separately:

DVR Service
HD Access
Whole-Home (if applicable)
Advanced Receiver (ARS)
$20/month
Combines the DVR, HD, and Whole-Home services into one service.
Applies to accounts created on/after Feb 9, 2012 only.
Applies to customers who order the following receivers: 
HD-DVR
Home Media Center (HMC)
TiVo HD-DVR

Notes:The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is added even if the customer doesn't have a whole-home solution. If they upgrade to a whole-home solution in the future, the ARS service remains at only $20/month.
TiVo HD-DVR receivers: Whole-Home functionality is not available with TiVo HD-DVR receivers.
The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is not applied to accounts create prior to Feb 9, 2012 who upgrade to an HD-DVR, HMC, or TiVo HD-DVR receiver. See the info for "Accounts created prior to Feb 9, 2012."


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## P Smith

OMG !

[Not that of kind news what want to have right before Xmas ...]


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## Smthkd

Wow, Greedy programmers, Greedy Directv. Is just me or does this price hike seems to be getting out of hand? can we have a little stability. Better yet give me a HD only pack thats only $50 a month. Thats all I watch anyway.

SMH... OTA here I come!


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## ThePhantom

Looks like a $1 savings for those with HD+DVR+whole home, right? ($20 instead of $10+$8+$3)? Negates the DVR price hike... :/

Also, I wonder if my grandfathered "Total Choice" rate plan will still enjoy the .50 discount over the current "Choice"...


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## Davenlr

Typical ~$5 annual raise... Whats with all the name changing and new package names? Choice Xtra is new package, and old one is Classic? This should be interesting to see what the differences are.


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## dpeters11

ThePhantom said:


> Looks like a $1 savings for those with HD+DVR+whole home, right? ($20 instead of $10+$8+$3)? Negates the DVR price hike... :/
> 
> Also, I wonder if my grandfathered "Total Choice" rate plan will still enjoy the .50 discount over the current "Choice"...


I don't think that applies to us, current customers. If it did, it would be a large price increase for most, as a lot of us don't pay the $10 HD fee.


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## ThePhantom

dpeters11 said:


> I don't think that applies to us, current customers. If it did, it would be a large price increase for most, as a lot of us don't pay the $10 HD fee.


...till June or July, when the $10 HD/auto-pay discount comes to an end.

Is Dish still touting the "free HD for life"? Wonder if DTV will do anything upon this summer's expiration (my guess is not).


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## Davenlr

"Entertainment" sounds (and is priced) like it might be a non-sports package for those people complaining about having to pay for ESPN when they dont watch it. Should be interesting to see what this one has.


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## Blurayfan

It will be interesting if the new combined ARS causes issues for customers who call in to make changes to their account and currently have the DirecTV DVR Lifetime service. The previous bundles always caused issues.


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## Drew2k

Here's the information from Post #1 reformatted to make it easier to compare changes... many thanks to A_Bear for sharing this info! (Feel free to copy into post 1 if you'd like!)

~~~~~~

*General Info*

New prices start Feb 9, 2012. See Package/Pricing List for details.
Existing customers see new prices on their Bill Cycle Day on/after Feb 9, 2012. 
Customer notification begins Dec 26, 2011.

*Customer Notification*

New pricing begins on the customer's Bill Cycle Day on/after Feb 9, 2012.
All customers get new pricing notification 30 days before their prices change, by one of the following methods: 
Notice inserted in their January/February bill
Mailer sent by regular mail
E-mail that links customers to an online notification. (E-mail is sent only if we have a valid e-mail on file.)

*Package/Pricing*



*Base Package*
|
*Former Price*
|
*Price on/after Feb 9, 2012*
|
*Note*

Basic Choice (International) |$12.99, no locals $12.99 |$14.99, no locals $14.99 |-
Choice |$60.99 |$63.99 |-
Choice Xtra (this is a new package) |N/A |$68.99 |Effective Feb 9, 2012; Note 1
Choice Xtra Classic - Expired |$65.99 |$68.99	|Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012. Name changes from "Choice Xtra" to "Choice Xtra Classic" effective Feb 9, 2012.
Choice Ultimate |$70.99 |$74.99 |-
Entertainment |N/A |$54.99 |Effective Feb 9, 2012; Note 1
Family |$29.99 |$29.99 |(no change)
Jadeworld |$39.99 |$39.99 |(no change) 
Lo Máximo |$114.99 |$119.99 |-
Más Latino |$34.99 |$34.99 |(no change) 
Más Ultra |$59.99 |$62.99 |-
Optimo Más |$44.99 |$46.99 |-
Preferred Choice |$39.99, no locals |$39.99 |$41.99, no locals $41.99 |-
Premier |$114.99 |$119.99 |-
Select - Expired |$44.99 |$44.99 | (no change) (Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012) 
Select Classic (retention) |$39.99 |$41.99 |(Customers with a Select Classic base package see a $2 price adjustment.) 

Note 1: Package details will be available closer to Feb 9, 2012.

No change to Premium Service pricing. (Starz Super Pack, Showtime, Sports Pack, HBO, and Cinemax



*Other Services*
|
*Former Price*
|
*Price on/after Feb 9, 2012*
|
*Note*

Américas Plus |$7.99 |$7.99 (no change) |-
DVR Service |$7 |$8 |(Effective Feb 9, 2012, the name changes from "DVR Service" to "Advanced Receiver-DVR." See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 
En Español |$14.99 |$14.99 (no change) |-
HD Access |$10 |$10 (no change) |(Effective Feb 9, 2012, the name changes from "HD Access" to "Advanced Receiver-HD." See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 
Lease/Mirroring Fees |$6 |$6 (no change) | Effective Feb 9, 2012, the names change to:Additional TV Formerly "Additional Receiver," "Mirroring Fee-Household," and "Leased Receiver_Additional."; Primary TV - Formerly "Primary Leased Receiver."; Primary TV Free - Formerly "Lease Fee Free Receiver."  
México Plus |$7.99 |$7.99 (no change) |-
Total Choice Mobile (KVH Mobile) Vehicle only: |$60.99, no locals |$57.99 |-
Whole-Home DVR Service |-	|-	|(The name stays the same for existing customers. Customers with an account created on/after Feb 9, 2012 may have a different service. See Advanced Receiver Services (ARS), below, for more if needed.) 

*Advanced Receiver Services (ARS)*

Applys only to accounts created prior to Feb 9th 2012



*Service name prior to Feb 9, 2012*
|
*Service name on/after Feb 9, 2012 *
|
*Cost*
|
*Note*

DVR Service |Advanced Receiver-DVR (ARS-DVR) |$8/month |Account handling remains unchanged.
HD Access |Advanced Receiver-HD (ARS-HD) |$10/month | Account handling remains unchanged.
Whole-Home DVR Service |Whole-Home DVR Service |$3/month |The service name and account handling remains unchanged 

Applys only to accounts created on/after to Feb 9th 2012



*Service name prior to Feb 9, 2012*
|
*Service name on/after Feb 9, 2012 *
|
*Cost*
|
*Note*

DVR Service |Advanced Receiver-DVR (ARS-DVR) |$8/month |Note:Accounts with HD-DVR, Home Media Center (HMC), or TiVo HD-DVR receivers get the combined "Advanced Receiver (ARS)" service, below. Accounts with standard definition DVR (only) and HD (only) receivers get billed separately for each service, ARS-DVR ($8) and ARS-HD ($10).
HD Access |Advanced Receiver-HD (ARS-HD) |$10/month | Note:Accounts with HD-DVR, Home Media Center (HMC), or TiVo HD-DVR receivers get the combined "Advanced Receiver (ARS)" service, below. Accounts with standard definition DVR (only) and HD (only) receivers get billed separately for each service, ARS-DVR ($8) and ARS-HD ($10).

Each service was billed separately:

DVR Service
HD Access
Whole-Home (if applicable)
Advanced Receiver (ARS)
$20/month
Combines the DVR, HD, and Whole-Home services into one service.
Applies to accounts created on/after Feb 9, 2012 only.
Applies to customers who order the following receivers: 
HD-DVR
Home Media Center (HMC)
TiVo HD-DVR

Notes:The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is added even if the customer doesn't have a whole-home solution. If they upgrade to a whole-home solution in the future, the ARS service remains at only |$20/month.

TiVo HD-DVR receivers: Whole-Home functionality is not available with TiVo HD-DVR receivers.

The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is not applied to accounts create prior to Feb 9, 2012 who upgrade to an HD-DVR, HMC, or TiVo HD-DVR receiver. See the info for "Accounts created prior to Feb 9, 2012."


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## JoeTheDragon

Additional TV??? will RVU people have to pay pre TV?

Just wait for cables all vid to no Additional TV fees.


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## JoeTheDragon

Blurayfan said:


> It will be interesting if the new combined ARS causes issues for customers who call in to make changes to their account and currently have the DirecTV DVR Lifetime service. The previous bundles always caused issues.


also I think there is the very old no mirroring fees that some people still have.

Also what about free HD?


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## Drew2k

So my rates are going up $5 a month for Premium, but I have DVR grandfathered... I'm not clear if that's going to change or not!


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## Blurayfan

JoeTheDragon said:


> also I think there is the very old no mirroring fees that some people still have.
> 
> Also what about free HD?


True the household mirroring (Primestar) customers could have issues as well.

I'm not sure how the FREE HD subscribers will be impacted since at least the two year FREE HD is charged monthly and then reversed by a credit.


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## Davenlr

Drew2k said:


> So my rates are going up $5 a month for Premium, but I have DVR grandfathered... I'm not clear if that's going to change or not!


DVR Lifetime, according to the current TOS, cannot be removed unless you leave DirecTv for over a year (I believe). I have that too.


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## Drew2k

Davenlr said:


> DVR Lifetime, according to the current TOS, cannot be removed unless you leave DirecTv for over a year (I believe). I have that too.


I should clarify... I don't have the "Tivo" style of lifetime DVR, but have "Premiere with DVR" grandfathered in. When I started in 2003 the DVR fee was included with the Premiere package, but they eventually broke it out, so as long as I remain on Premiere I'm not supposed to pay a "DVR service" fee. I'm hoping that doesn't change!


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## Blurayfan

Davenlr said:


> DVR Lifetime, according to the current TOS, cannot be removed unless you leave DirecTv for over a year (I believe). I have that too.


The lifetime service or the previously Premier with DVR service included could be lost if changing to a package that combines the services the new (Advanced Receiver Service) $20.


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## JoeTheDragon

What's the point of having Choice Xtra Classic and Choice Xtra at the same price? in less you get more channels with Choice Xtra Classic or you get some other older price.

The OLD HD DVR pack saved you $1 /m and you got the same channels as Choice Xtra + HD + DVR.


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## JoeTheDragon

Blurayfan said:


> The lifetime service or the previously Premier with DVR service included could be lost if changing to a package that combines the services the new (Advanced Receiver Service) $20.


The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is not applied to accounts create prior to Feb 9, 2012.


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## Blurayfan

JoeTheDragon said:


> The Advanced Receiver (ARS) service is not applied to accounts create prior to Feb 9, 2012.


That's the way it's supposed to work, but their could be errors either computer or human that cause the change to be made. For instance a customer who orders the New TiVo or HMC and calls in to activate could be wrongly switched.


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## Drew2k

I guess in a sense new customers will see the AVR Fee and not even realize it includes a fee for HD, but honestly I was hoping DIRECTV would eliminate completely the HD Access Fee (or however they want to name it). Cable companies love to tout that "HD is free" with them, so it would have been great for DIRECTV to simply eliminate the fee to be "even" with cable on at least that front.


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## Davenlr

Comcast here still charges $8.50 per outlet for HD. SD is free.


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## Steve

I wonder which channels are in that "Preferred Choice" package for $39.99? Can't find it on the DirecTV website. If anyone has a link, would appreciate it.

I'm curious if it's simply "Choice" minus OTA locals? Or, if not, which sat-only channels are missing?


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## A_Bear

ThePhantom said:


> Looks like a $1 savings for those with HD+DVR+whole home, right? ($20 instead of $10+$8+$3)? Negates the DVR price hike... :/
> 
> Also, I wonder if my grandfathered "Total Choice" rate plan will still enjoy the .50 discount over the current "Choice"...


that is a new customer after feb. 9th only offer, sorry


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## A_Bear

Steve said:


> I wonder which channels are in that "Preferred Choice" package for $39.99? Can't find it on the DirecTV website. If anyone has a link, would appreciate it.
> 
> I'm curious if it's simply "Choice" minus OTA locals? Or, if not, which sat-only channels are missing?


this package is a retention offer only, no link avalible sorry


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## dishrich

ThePhantom said:


> Also, I wonder if my grandfathered "Total Choice" rate plan will still enjoy the .50 discount over the current "Choice"...


As well as what about us TC+ folks that are still getting the $1.50 discount over the like Choice Xtra pkg? 

As others have mentioned...VERY concered about us lifetime DVR subs - as in WILL it even STILL exist? :eek2:


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## A_Bear

Davenlr said:


> DVR Lifetime, according to the current TOS, cannot be removed unless you leave DirecTv for over a year (I believe). I have that too.


this will be removed permanatly if you disconnect it from your active services for 30 or more days


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## Davenlr

A_Bear said:


> this will be removed permanatly if you disconnect it from your active services for 30 or more days


Is this a change to the TOS then?


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## A_Bear

Expired packages remain active until customers disconnect the package or their account.
Most services can be reinstated within 30 days. 
Exception: Customers with Opcion Premier, Premier, or Lo Maximo with $0 DVR/HD-DVR service can't be reinstated after disconnection (no grace period).
After 30 days, services can't be reinstated, even if it was removed by mistake.
Help the customer select a current package that best fits his/her needs.
See Programming Purchase Requirements before adding Premium Packages, additional services, sports subscriptions, etc.
Some Expired Packages don't include local channels. If locals are available from DIRECTV in the customer's area, offer to switch the customer into a current package that includes locals. 
Exception: Only accounts with Total Choice (no locals) or Total Choice Plus (no locals): First, offer to switch to a current package that includes locals. If the customer doesn't want to switch packages, offer to add locals a la carte at $6. The $6 a la carte option is only available with the expired packages mentioned above. (However, it's also available with the non-expired Jadeworld package if certain conditions apply. See Jadeworld if needed.)
Note: Prior to Feb 9, 2010, accounts with Total Choice (no locals) or Total Choice Plus (no locals) were able to add locals a la carte for $3. These customers continue to get the $3 price, but Expired Package rules apply. Locals a la carte is now $6 if it's added on or/after Feb 9, 2010.
List of Expired Packages
General Market Base Packages
Expired Package
Former 
Price
Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 


Choice Xtra Classic
$65.99 
(No locals $62.99) 
$68.99 
(No locals $65.99) 

(Expired package effective Feb 9, 2012 and the name changes from Choice Xtra to Choice Xtra Classic.) 

Plus DVR
$72.99 
(No locals $69.99) 
$76.99 
(No locals $73.99) 

Plus HD/DVR
$82.99 
(No locals $79.99) 
$86.99 
(No locals $83.99) 

Select
$44.99 
(No locals $41.99) 
$44.99 (no change) 
(No locals $41.99) 

(Expired package effective Feb 9, 2012.) 



Total Choice Base Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Total Choice Limited $51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 
$53.99 
(No locals $50.99) 

Total Choice $60.49 
(No locals $57.49) $64.49 
(No locals $61.49) 
Total Choice Plus $64.49 
(No locals $61.49) 
$68.99 
(No locals $65.99) 

(Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package move to Choice Xtra Classic on Feb 9, 2012. NOTE: Total Choice Plus and Choice Xtra Classic contain the exact same channels.) 



Spanish-language Expired
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Básico

$35.99 
(No locals $32.99) 

$37.99 
(No locals $34.99)

Familiar

$51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99)

Familiar Ultra

$60.99 
(No locals $57.99) 

$63.99 
(No locals $60.99)

Más Mexico

$29.99 
(No locals $26.99) 

$31.99 
(No locals $28.99)

Más Ultra Original

$57.99 
(No locals $54.99)
$60.99 
(No locals $57.99)

Opción Especial

$37.49 

$39.49 


Opción Extra
(Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Optimo Más package on Feb 10, 2011.) 

Not applicable 


Opción Extra Especial

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99) 

$57.49 
(No locals $54.49) 


Opción Ultra Especial
$56.49 
(No locals $52.49) 

$59.49 
(No locals $55.49) 


Opción Premier $111.99 
(No locals $108.99) 

$115.99 
(No locals $112.99) 


Optimo Más Plus DVR
$51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99) 




International Base Packages
Expired Package
Former 
Price
Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 


Basic (International)
$15.99 
(No locals $15.99) 

$17.99 
(No locals $17.99)



Other Expired Base Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
DIRECTV Limited (Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Family package on Feb 10, 2011.) 
Not applicable 

Plus DIRECTV (Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Select Classic package on Feb 10, 2011.) 
Not applicable 

Select Choice $44.99 
$46.99 



A La Carte Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Cinemax
(old package - before Feb 1, 2002) $12.99
$12.99 - No change

Encore Themes $12
$12 - No change

Encore Themes $4
$4 - No change

Family Pack $5
$5 - No change

HBO/HBO Family $15.99 $15.99 - No change 
HD Access_EXP
(formerly HD Package) $10
$10 - No change

Showtime/Flix $12 $12 - No change 
Starz/Encore $12 $12 - No change 
The Movie Channel $12 $12 - No change 


Add-On Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
HBO (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 2) $23 $23 - No change 

HBO/Showtime
(Pick 3) $39 $39 - No change 

HBO/Starz I
(Pick 2) $25 $25 - No change 

HBO/Starz II
(Pick 3) $34 $34 - No change 

HBO/Starz/Showtime
(Pick 4) $49 $49 - No change 

Showtime (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 1) 
$15 $15 - No change 
Showtime/Sports $25 $25 - No change 
Starz (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 1) $11 $11 - No change 
Starz/Showtime
(Pick 2) $26 $26 - No change 
Starz/Sports $20 $20 - No change 



Adding/Changing Services in Rio
Adding/Changing Services in Rio
Some expired packages don’t allow additional services to be added in Rio. See below for procedures.
Grandfathered Packages
Additional services are allowed in Rio.
Special Upgrade Offers are not presented. 
The customer needs to upgrade to a current base package if they request a Special Upgrade Offer.
Retention Offers: Restrictions may vary depending on the offer. 
Confirm in Rio to determine if the offer is available.
Packages

MAS ULTRA ORIGINAL
OPCIÓN PREMIER

MAS ULTRA ORIGINAL - no lcls_EXP
OPCIÓN PREMIER - NO LOCALS

TOTAL CHOICE LIMITED - NO LOCALS
TOTAL CHOICE_N/A

TOTAL CHOICE LIMITED
TOTAL CHOICE - NO LOCALS _N/A

OPCIÓN EXTRA - NO LOCALS
TOTAL CHOICE PLUS_N/A 

OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPEC - NO LOCALS
TOTAL CHOICE PLUS - NO LOCALS _N/A

OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL

OPCIÓN ULTRA ESPECIAL

OPCIÓN ULTRA ESPEC - NO LOCALS



Expired Grandfathered Packages
No additional services or program discounts are allowed in Rio.
Customer must switch to a current base package.
Packages

HAWAII CHOICE
OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL SHOWTIME

SELECT CHOICE
TOTAL CHOICE PLATINUM

HAWAII CHOICE PLUS
OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL PLATINUM

OPCIÓN HAWAII
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO y SHOWTIME

OPCIÓN HAWAII PLUS
TOTAL CHOICE STARZ SHOWTIME

OPCIÓN ESPECIAL
TOTAL CHOICE HBO and STARZ I

TOTAL CHOICE FAMILY PACK
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO y STARZ I

TOTAL CHOICE CBO
TOTAL CHOICE HBO STARZ SHOWTIME

TOTAL CHOICE TVRO
TOTAL CHOICE HBO and SHOWTIME

SELECT CHOICE PLATINUM SAMPLER
TOTAL CHOICE HBO and STARZ II

TOTAL CHOICE PLATINUM SAMPLER
OPCIÓN EXT ESP SHOWTIME y SPORTS

TOTAL CHOICE STARZ SPORTS_SMKT
TOTAL CHOICE and HBO

TOTAL CHOICE GOLD – GUARANTEE
TOTAL CHOICE and SHOWTIME

Plus STARZ
TOTAL CHOICE and SPORTS

ENCORE/THEMES
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO y STARZ II

TOTAL CHOICE – GUARANTEE
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO HBOFAM SPORTS

OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL MUESTRA
OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL SPORTS

TOTAL CHOICE PLATINUM – GUARANTE
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO y HBO FAMILY

TOTAL CHOICE SHOWTIME and SPORTS
OPCIÓN EXT ESP STARZ y SPORTS

TOTAL CHOICE STARZ and SPORTS
PLATINUM

TOTAL CHOICE HBO and HBO FAMILY
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO STARZ SHOW

TOTAL CHOICE HBO and SPORTS
OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL STARZ

PERSONAL CHOICE
OPCIN EXT ESP STARZ y SHOWTIME

TOTAL CHOICE_Special Markets
OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL HBO

TOTAL CHOICE HBO and SHOWTIME
OPCIÓN EXT ESP HBO HBO FAM SHOW

TOTAL CHOICE and ENCORE
TOTAL CHOICE and STARZ

TOTAL CHOICE SILVER – GUARANTEE



Grandfathered A La Carte or Add-On Packages
No additional services or programming discounts allowed in Rio.
Customer must select the current add-on/a la carte to make any other changes. 
For example, if the customer has Encore, they must select current Starz package before any other services or discounts can be added.
Packages

CINEMAX
HBO/HBO FAMILY/SPORTS

ENCORE THEMES
HBO/SHOWTIME (PICK 3)

ENCORE THEMES
HBO/STARZ I (PICK 2)

FAMILY PACK
HBO/STARZ II (PICK 3)

HBO/HBO FAMILY
HBO/STARZ/SHOWTIME (PICK 4)

HD ACCESS_EXP
SHOWTIME (PICK 1)

THE MOVIE CHANNEL
SHOWTIME/SPORTS

SHOWTIME/FLIX
STARZ (PICK 1)

STARZ/ENCORE
STARZ/SHOWTIME (PICK 2)

HBO (PICK 2)
STARZ/SPORTS

HBO/HBO FAMILY/SHOWTIME






List of Expired Packages
General Market Base Packages
Expired Package
Former 
Price
Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 


Choice Xtra Classic
$65.99 
(No locals $62.99) 
$68.99 
(No locals $65.99) 

(Expired package effective Feb 9, 2012 and the name changes from Choice Xtra to Choice Xtra Classic.) 

Plus DVR
$72.99 
(No locals $69.99) 
$76.99 
(No locals $73.99) 

Plus HD/DVR
$82.99 
(No locals $79.99) 
$86.99 
(No locals $83.99) 

Select
$44.99 
(No locals $41.99) 
$44.99 (no change) 
(No locals $41.99) 

(Expired package effective Feb 9, 2012.) 



Total Choice Base Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Total Choice Limited $51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 
$53.99 
(No locals $50.99) 

Total Choice $60.49 
(No locals $57.49) $64.49 
(No locals $61.49) 
Total Choice Plus $64.49 
(No locals $61.49) 
$68.99 
(No locals $65.99) 

(Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package move to Choice Xtra Classic on Feb 9, 2012. NOTE: Total Choice Plus and Choice Xtra Classic contain the exact same channels.) 



Spanish-language Expired
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Básico

$35.99 
(No locals $32.99) 

$37.99 
(No locals $34.99)

Familiar

$51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99)

Familiar Ultra

$60.99 
(No locals $57.99) 

$63.99 
(No locals $60.99)

Más Mexico

$29.99 
(No locals $26.99) 

$31.99 
(No locals $28.99)

Más Ultra Original

$57.99 
(No locals $54.99)
$60.99 
(No locals $57.99)

Opción Especial

$37.49 

$39.49 


Opción Extra
(Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Optimo Más package on Feb 10, 2011.) 

Not applicable 


Opción Extra Especial

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99) 

$57.49 
(No locals $54.49) 


Opción Ultra Especial
$56.49 
(No locals $52.49) 

$59.49 
(No locals $55.49) 


Opción Premier $111.99 
(No locals $108.99) 

$115.99 
(No locals $112.99) 


Optimo Más Plus DVR
$51.99 
(No locals $48.99) 

$54.99 
(No locals $51.99) 




International Base Packages
Expired Package
Former 
Price
Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 


Basic (International)
$15.99 
(No locals $15.99) 

$17.99 
(No locals $17.99)



Other Expired Base Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
DIRECTV Limited (Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Family package on Feb 10, 2011.) 
Not applicable 

Plus DIRECTV (Discontinued package. No longer carried by DIRECTV. Customers on this package were moved to the Select Classic package on Feb 10, 2011.) 
Not applicable 

Select Choice $44.99 
$46.99 



A La Carte Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
Cinemax
(old package - before Feb 1, 2002) $12.99
$12.99 - No change

Encore Themes $12
$12 - No change

Encore Themes $4
$4 - No change

Family Pack $5
$5 - No change

HBO/HBO Family $15.99 $15.99 - No change 
HD Access_EXP
(formerly HD Package) $10
$10 - No change

Showtime/Flix $12 $12 - No change 
Starz/Encore $12 $12 - No change 
The Movie Channel $12 $12 - No change 


Add-On Packages
Expired Package Former 
Price Price on/after 
Feb 9, 2012 
HBO (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 2) $23 $23 - No change 

HBO/Showtime
(Pick 3) $39 $39 - No change 

HBO/Starz I
(Pick 2) $25 $25 - No change 

HBO/Starz II
(Pick 3) $34 $34 - No change 

HBO/Starz/Showtime
(Pick 4) $49 $49 - No change 

Showtime (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 1) 
$15 $15 - No change 
Showtime/Sports $25 $25 - No change 
Starz (old package - before Feb 1, 2002) 
(Pick 1) $11 $11 - No change 
Starz/Showtime
(Pick 2) $26 $26 - No change 
Starz/Sports $20 $20 - No change


----------



## cypherx

I have Premier with WH-DVR.
Looks like I see a $6 increase? Am I reading that right?
$5 increase for Premier tier
$1 increase for DVR service ?
$72 a year increase?

Glad I cut off Sirius internet radio and got my second [sirius]receiver on a promo rate for the year.

That about covers it..

Times millions of customers that's quite an increase. How much goes to DirecTV and how much goes to the programmers? Anyone have an idea ? Is it like 90% to programmers 10% to DirecTV? I realize DTV needs to recoup for inflation, investments in technology, infrastructure, etc.. but I do know those programmers are charging an arm and a leg as well. Times hundreds of channels I'm sure that increase is hard to sustain.


----------



## Davenlr

All those prices and options....almost as complicated as figuring out your own tax returns.


----------



## bigtom

"A_Bear" said:


> this package is a retention offer only, no link avalible sorry


Preferred Choice is a base package available to any new or exisiting DIRECTV customer who also subscribes to International programming addon.

More information, including the channel lineup, is available on DIRECTV's website 
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/packages/international


----------



## F1 Fan

cypherx said:


> I have Premier with WH-DVR.
> Looks like I see a $6 increase? Am I reading that right?
> $5 increase for Premier tier
> $1 increase for DVR service ?
> $72 a year increase?
> 
> Glad I cut off Sirius internet radio and got my second [sirius]receiver on a promo rate for the year.
> 
> That about covers it..
> 
> Times millions of customers that's quite an increase. How much goes to DirecTV and how much goes to the programmers? Anyone have an idea ? Is it like 90% to programmers 10% to DirecTV? I realize DTV needs to recoup for inflation, investments in technology, infrastructure, etc.. but I do know those programmers are charging an arm and a leg as well. Times hundreds of channels I'm sure that increase is hard to sustain.


100% of price increase will go to Directv and not the programmers. That is because most costs are locked in at contract renewal time. But Directv knows how many contracts are up for renewal and how much extra it needs, plus all new technology etc for the next year that has to be developed.

So it soon goes fast lol


----------



## A_Bear

bigtom said:


> Preferred Choice is a base package available to any new or exisiting DIRECTV customer who also subscribes to International programming addon.
> 
> More information, including the channel lineup, is available on DIRECTV's website
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/packages/international


I'm sorry, i thought you said SELECT CLASSIC package


----------



## ThomasM

Companies selling outdoor over-the-air antennas should ask DirecTV if they could include a flyer in the bill with the new prices....


----------



## Xsabresx

Not sure how to react. On the whole that is a $30 increase in Premier since I started 10 years ago ($89.99 to $119.99). On the other hand it is only $6 more per month which isnt really a big deal. Guess it just depends on how I justify it.

10 years ago I was watching primarily network tv with commercials. Today (tonight is a perfect example) I pause the tv 15mins for every hour show to make sure I can skip the commercials.


----------



## photostudent

Davenlr said:


> All those prices and options....almost as complicated as figuring out your own tax returns.


This is what Scott Adams calls "Confusopolies". I.e, companies that supply the same content but make their package pricing too complicated for the average consumer to compare. At least Direct has smarter PR people than Netflix. No 80% increase! The possibility of a non sports channel package is a bright spot for me. But that is a subject that has been beat to death elsewhere.


----------



## Herdfan

Drew2k said:


> I should clarify... I don't have the "Tivo" style of lifetime DVR, but have "Premiere with DVR" grandfathered in. When I started in 2003 the DVR fee was included with the Premiere package, but they eventually broke it out, so as long as I remain on Premiere I'm not supposed to pay a "DVR service" fee. I'm hoping that doesn't change!


Same here. But I caught where they added it back onto my parent's account and had to call. Front line CSR had no idea what I was talking about, but it got escalated and the second person new and credited it back and so far it has been OK.

But when I added the HR34 I changed my primary receiver. So I lots of activity on my account and I will be looking closely to see if it stays free.


----------



## LCDSpazz

Since they're the same price, I'm assuming the "NEW Choice Xtra" is going to dump some of the channels that will remain on the now grandfathered "Choice Xtra Classic".


----------



## TBlazer07

Fios Triple Play (for the first 2 years anyway) is looking about net $49/mo better (up from $43 better the other day) compared to my current 3 separate services. I really want to stay with DirecTV (been almost 8 years since I dumped Comcast) but it's getting to the point of feeling like a fool paying almost $600/yr more (not even counting the $250 Visa gift card promo) to watch TV. Once I see what the "Entertainment Package" is (hopefully everything without the sports) I'll have to decide.


----------



## espnjason

LCDSpazz said:


> Since they're the same price, I'm assuming the "NEW Choice Xtra" is going to dump some of the channels that will remain on the now grandfathered "Choice Xtra Classic".


Since I've spotted a $4 increase for Choice Ultimate, I suspect that some channels will be shifted from Choice Xtra.

I did not see anything on the HD Extra Pack though, will that be lumped in the Choice Ultimate alongside some former Choice Xtra channels?

I am also curious about the Entertainment Package.


----------



## Davenlr

espnjason said:


> I did not see anything on the HD Extra Pack though, will that be lumped in the Choice Ultimate alongside some former Choice Xtra channels?


I noticed the lack of HD Extra myself, but it did say current special add on packages and movie packages were all remaining the same price, so just guessed HD Extra was included in that.


----------



## Drew2k

A_Bear said:


> Expired packages remain active until customers disconnect the package or their account.
> Most services can be reinstated within 30 days.
> Exception: Customers with Opcion Premier, Premier, or Lo Maximo with $0 DVR/HD-DVR service can't be reinstated after disconnection (no grace period).
> After 30 days, services can't be reinstated, even if it was removed by mistake.


I might have a problem with this!!!!

I have Premiere with $0 DVR service and in the past if I had to replace my primary receiver, they had to drop my package to move it to the new primary receiver. And inevitably the Premiere would be restored but without the $0 DVR fee, so it ALWAYS had to be escalated to have the grandfathered status restored.

If I have a problem in the future with my primary, would DIRECTV consider my package "deactivated" as the old primary receiver is taken off of my account and a new receiver is made primary? If so, it says "no exceptions", so I just lost my grandfathered status...


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Looks like $6 more for me as a Premier sub. After no increase last year I have no problem paying it. They also added a bunch of HD so it's cool.


----------



## espnjason

espnjason said:


> I did not see anything on the HD Extra Pack though, will that be lumped in the Choice Ultimate alongside some former Choice Xtra channels?





Davenlr said:


> I noticed the lack of HD Extra myself, but it did say current special add on packages and movie packages were all remaining the same price, so just guessed HD Extra was included in that.


I stand corrected for now. I thought since the HDXP is mostly studio specific movie channels it could be on the same pack as Ultimate, which has Encore and TMC.

Or alternately, D* could include the HDXP with the HD Access.... who knows.


----------



## TBlazer07

I've heard they are also going to drop the line item that says "lease fee" listing for additional receivers on the bills and change it to "additional receiver." 

I guess the term "lease" has been causing a lot of flack. It will cause some confusion for those with owned receivers.


----------



## dsw2112

Davenlr said:


> All those prices and options....almost as complicated as figuring out your own tax returns.


I'd say the increases are what I expected, but the wording borders on insanity... One word for D* "standardize" :lol:


----------



## JoeTheDragon

espnjason said:


> Since I've spotted a $4 increase for Choice Ultimate, I suspect that some channels will be shifted from Choice Xtra.
> 
> I did not see anything on the HD Extra Pack though, will that be lumped in the Choice Ultimate alongside some former Choice Xtra channels?
> 
> I am also curious about the Entertainment Package.


And people with the old Choice Xtra will keep them?

Will some sports pack channels move in to Choice Xtra? Choice Ultimate to gain some sports pack channels?

Entertainment is quite less then choice / Choice xtra and the lack of ESPN, NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, Big ten, VS / NBC sports network, TVG, Speed, CBS sports network, RSN's, golf, Fuel + others may make up the gap?

Now is there any chance to have a Entertainment pack they had to move some channels from sports pack to Choice / Choice xtra?


----------



## A_Bear

JoeTheDragon said:


> And people with the old Choice Xtra will keep them?
> 
> Will some sports pack channels move in to Choice Xtra? Choice Ultimate to gain some sports pack channels?
> 
> Entertainment is quite less then choice / Choice xtra and the lack of ESPN, NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, Big ten, VS / NBC sports network, TVG, Speed, CBS sports network, RSN's, golf, Fuel + others may make up the gap?
> 
> Now is there any chance to have a Entertainment pack they had to move some channels from sports pack to Choice / Choice xtra?


I do not think that the sports pack will lose channels, expecially to be moved to other packages.


----------



## csgo

Looks like you have to want only Hispanic programming if you don't want DirecTV to stick it to you.


----------



## espnjason

JoeTheDragon said:


> And people with the old Choice Xtra will keep them?


Based on past trends, I think those with the current Choice Xtra will keep the package as is and will deal with the price increase unless and until one changes the package after February.



> Will some sports pack channels move in to Choice Xtra? Choice Ultimate to gain some sports pack channels?


I don't know which Sports Pack channels would be placed on a base package aside from the local RSNs. Are you thinking Outdoor Channel, Fox Soccer and GolTV?


----------



## codespy

espnjason said:


> I stand corrected for now. I thought since the HDXP is mostly studio specific movie channels it could be on the same pack as Ultimate, which has Encore and TMC.
> 
> Or alternately, D* could include the HDXP with the HD Access.... who knows.


If they are still charging you for this, currently there is still a way around it. It just requires effort by you every three months.


----------



## usnret

These new descriptions look like something the House and/or Senate wrote. Cheeze!!


----------



## robertk328

"TBlazer07" said:


> Fios Triple Play (for the first 2 years anyway) is looking about net $49/mo better (up from $43 better the other day) compared to my current 3 separate services. I really want to stay with DirecTV (been almost 8 years since I dumped Comcast) but it's getting to the point of feeling like a fool paying almost $600/yr more (not even counting the $250 Visa gift card promo) to watch TV. Once I see what the "Entertainment Package" is (hopefully everything without the sports) I'll have to decide.


I had fios Internet and phone installed but kept D*TV. Will have to see what this does to my bill - may make the switch easier, right as I'm getting the new HD GUI. Oh well!


----------



## facerw

Personally I think they shouldn't charge for HD and DVR services. Those are becoming more and more standard and think it's good to have to pay extra for this. Do you suppose we're not going to see HD fees anytime soon? Yeah I'm wishing but I hope so.


----------



## TBlazer07

robertk328 said:


> I had fios Internet and phone installed but kept D*TV. Will have to see what this does to my bill - may make the switch easier, right as I'm getting the new HD GUI. Oh well!


 I've had FIOS internet for years but it's costing me $65/month. That plus DirecTV and my VOIP provider I'm at almost $185/month before increase. I can do FIOS triple play guaranteed for 2 years at $129 with similar features (except for my HR34  ) and get 25/25 internet instead of 20/5, plus HBO & SHO (don't get that with D*) plus a $250 VISA gift card. DirecTV equip is much better but it just reaches a point of diminishing values . If money was no object I wouldn't care but I'm retired (mostly involuntarily) and it's getting very tight. Maybe if I can wrangle $25/month in discounts I'd stick with them. I really hate to give up DirecTV but it's time to seriously look at the competition. I say this every year when the annual increase comes along but this is the first year that FIOS has MULTI-DVR MRV and 500GB hard drives around here. My daughter recently switched from D*->FIOS and is quite satisfied with it.


----------



## TBlazer07

facerw said:


> Personally I think they shouldn't charge for HD and DVR services. Those are becoming more and more standard and think it's good to have to pay extra for this. Do you suppose we're not going to see HD fees anytime soon? Yeah I'm wishing but I hope so.


 IMO that won't happen for many years. If they do they will add it to a package and jack up the package prices to compensate. There would be too much loss of revenue to just drop it across the board. With the free HD promos they only give it to new subs and the few people outside of forums like this who even know it exists who call and ask for it.


----------



## fireponcoal

Another price increase and D* still looks to have little interest in giving Philadelphians a chance to see their local sports teams.. Sports leader everywhere but the Delaware Valley...

Their equipment still is sexy as hell though...


----------



## satjay

"usnret" said:


> These new descriptions look like something the House and/or Senate wrote. Cheeze!!


As strange as this sounds, it looks like they have taken a page from the Dishnetwork play book when it comes to all of these packages, interesting to see what the "entertainment" package will look like


----------



## TBlazer07

fireponcoal said:


> Their equipment still is sexy as hell though...


 Never thought of THAT TYPE of equipment as "sexy." I guess some people say their cell phones are sexy so why not DVR's. To each your own! :lol:


----------



## mnassour

Well, now we have pricing, but for what? Is there any news of channel changes/additions/drops, whatever?


----------



## zimm7778

I'm so sick of channel package name changes and services being included then removed. Come up with names and stick with them. This isn't stadium naming rights that expire after so long! Like this new name, I think I have Choice Select or whatever it is that has the typical channels with no premium. Now it's being renamed and a new package is taking over that name?


----------



## JoeTheDragon

espnjason said:


> Based on past trends, I think those with the current Choice Xtra will keep the package as is and will deal with the price increase unless and until one changes the package after February.
> 
> I don't know which Sports Pack channels would be placed on a base package aside from the local RSNs. Are you thinking Outdoor Channel, Fox Soccer and GolTV?


maybe Universal Sports and espn classic.


----------



## mreposter

After reading those new pricing tables my head hurts.
Thank god Mom baked cookies today


----------



## dpeters11

"mnassour" said:


> Well, now we have pricing, but for what? Is there any news of channel changes/additions/drops, whatever?


I don't think anyone would like it if channel additions only happened once a year.


----------



## Alan Gordon

WOW!

I'm almost as confused as to what this all means as I am when I look at my Verizon Wireless bill. :eek2:

I may be suspending my account week after next, but I'm trying to work it out so I won't have to until later.

*Should I stay, it appears to me that:*

My mirroring fees will remain the same (minus the DVRs I intend to get rid of).
My Whole Home DVR Service will remain the same.
My DVR service will be going up $1 (it appears to still be per account, not per DVR).
Total Choice Xtra Classic (my current package) will be going up $3.

*The assumptions I'm making: * 

HD Extra Package will remain the same price?
DNS Feeds will remain the same price?

*Questions (mainly brought up by internet gossip):*

Is the HD Extra package being melded into Choice Ultimate like some on this thread have brought up? If so, does that mean one is forced to upgrade to Choice Ultimate to get those channels?
Is the Entertainment package the rumored package without any sports channels?
If so (previous question), it's so cheap, I'm assuming it won't include the HD Extra package?
If I call DirecTV on February 9, 2012 and order an HR34, will I be forced to get Advanced Receiver Service (ARS) instead of the separate line items?! I ask because I still have free HD until later this year.

I'm very interesting in knowing more about this.

~Alan


----------



## ms1960

What channels are in the select or select choice package because I have never seen it listed on the website?


----------



## NR4P

I know this happens every year but consider the timing. With the HR34 being available to existing subs starting Feb. 8, they get to lock in alot of existing subs with HR34's at these new prices for another two years. Many would probably be out of contract and could shop around if they don't jump on the HR34.


----------



## dpeters11

But, they'll know about the prices by the time they can order, so it won't exactly be a surprise.


----------



## Davenlr

ms1960 said:


> What channels are in the select or select choice package because I have never seen it listed on the website?


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2755152#post2755152


----------



## mnassour

dpeters11 said:


> I don't think anyone would like it if channel additions only happened once a year.


Agreed...I was just hoping they'd throw us a bone to cushion the blow!


----------



## Draconis

mnassour said:


> Agreed...I was just hoping they'd throw us a bone to cushion the blow!


Thing is, they say they did. According to the mailer I saw DIRECTV's programming costs have increased by almost 10% but they raised the cost of the packages by about 4%.

Granted, nobody wants to see ANY raise in the rates. But it's not as bad as it could be.


----------



## raott

Draconis said:


> Thing is, they say they did. According to the mailer I saw DIRECTV's programming costs have increased by almost 10% but they raised the cost of the packages by about 4%.
> 
> Granted, nobody wants to see ANY raise in the rates. But it's not as bad as it could be.


Cause we know, D* wouldn't try and spin their own mailer at all right?

Do you really think their program cost equates to their overall cost?


----------



## Draconis

raott said:


> Do you really think their program cost equates to their overall cost?


How quickly we forget when Fox Networks wanted a 40% increase in its carriage fees.

Not to mention all the other broadcasters who tried to raise their rates on DIRECTV this last year.

Here are some links to refresh your memory, and these are just the ones that got ugly and we found out about. I'm betting there were quite a few more that never made the news.

Fox / Newscorp channels possibly suspended Nov. 1

Belo agrement expires NOV 1st at midnight

Potential YES Contract Dispute

After you look over those I hope you enjoy being able to continue watching channels like FX.

Personally, I have one thing to say to all the trolls who yelled and screamed and said they would cancel their service if they lost channel X, Y, or Z.

You get to keep them, and now you get to pay for them. Happy?

www.ourpromisetoyou.com


----------



## hdtvfan0001

The entitlement mentality continues.

Agree with Draconis...the disappointment and frustration needs to be pointed to the source - *the greedy networks*. They're the ones raising prices in double digits (sometimes very high double digits), while expecting delivery carriers to hold the line on costs to customers.

That math simply doesn't work. Period.


----------



## MysteryMan

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The entitlement mentality continues.
> 
> Agree with Draconis...the disappointment and frustration needs to be pointed to the source - *the greedy networks*. They're the ones raising prices in double digits (sometimes very high double digits), while expecting delivery carriers to hold the line on costs to customers.
> 
> That math simply doesn't work. Period.


Exactly, the networks inflate the cost customers pay their delivery carriers.


----------



## n3vino

Choice Xtra (this is a new package)	N/A	$68.99	Effective Feb 9, 2012; Note 1

Choice Xtra Classic - Expired	$65.99	$68.99	Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012. Name changes from "Choice Xtra" to "Choice Xtra Classic" effective Feb 9, 2012.

I don't understand this one. My understanding is that D* does not guarantee programming, only price for two years when under contract. Since my premium will not increase, will they switch me to choice xtra classic and take some programming away or will they keep me on choice xtra?


----------



## bigtom

"n3vino" said:


> Choice Xtra (this is a new package)	N/A	$68.99	Effective Feb 9, 2012; Note 1
> 
> Choice Xtra Classic - Expired	$65.99	$68.99	Expired Package effective Feb 9, 2012. Name changes from "Choice Xtra" to "Choice Xtra Classic" effective Feb 9, 2012.
> 
> I don't understand this one. My understanding is that D* does not guarantee programming, only price for two years when under contract. Since my premium will not increase, will they switch me to choice xtra classic and take some programming away or will they keep me on choice xtra?


It seems that anyone currently on Choice Extra will have the same package but renamed to Choice Extra Classic. A new Choice Extra with channel differences will be introduced if you choose to change to it.


----------



## zimm7778

"bigtom" said:


> It seems that anyone currently on Choice Extra will have the same package but renamed to Choice Extra Classic. A new Choice Extra with channel differences will be introduced if you choose to change to it.


What's the difference? They are both the same price. This makes no sense unless there's channels in each package not in another.


----------



## n3vino

bigtom said:


> It seems that anyone currently on Choice Extra will have the same package but renamed to Choice Extra Classic. A new Choice Extra with channel differences will be introduced if you choose to change to it.


So then my channels will not change, but I have the option to upgrade to the new Choice Extra for three dollars more?


----------



## mreposter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The entitlement mentality continues.
> 
> Agree with Draconis...the disappointment and frustration needs to be pointed to the source - *the greedy networks*. They're the ones raising prices in double digits (sometimes very high double digits), while expecting delivery carriers to hold the line on costs to customers.
> 
> That math simply doesn't work. Period.


And yet Directv continues to report record quarterly profits.
So all these huge increases in programming costs don't seem to be hurting their bottom line, quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## lparsons21

n3vino said:


> So then my channels will not change, but I have the option to upgrade to the new Choice Extra for three dollars more?


Both will be $68.99.


----------



## longrider

How I see the Choice Extra deal is that rather than raising the price they dropped a bunch of channels out of the package. Current customers keep their channels with the classic package and new or package switching customers get the reduced channel count


----------



## RACJ2

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The entitlement mentality continues.
> 
> Agree with Draconis...the disappointment and frustration needs to be pointed to the source - *the greedy networks*. They're the ones raising prices in double digits (sometimes very high double digits), while expecting delivery carriers to hold the line on costs to customers.
> 
> That math simply doesn't work. Period.


Although I agree with you, there is greed at every step of the way.



Actors, producers, TV stars, movie stars, players, sports team owners, leagues, etc. all want to be paid more.

Their greed leads to more expense and the networks have to pay more for the shows and events they buy.
 
When the network pays more, they want to keep their profits high, so they charge delivery carriers more.
 
Then the delivery carriers want to keep their profits high, so they charge subscribers more.

Since we have no way to profit from the programming we get from the delivery carriers, we lose.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

longrider said:


> How I see the Choice Extra deal is that rather than raising the price they dropped a bunch of channels out of the package. Current customers keep their channels with the classic package and new or package switching customers get the reduced channel count


maybe it has some to do with the Entertainment package and maybe old Choice Extra get some more sports channels. I can see directv makeing a deal to get a non sports package they had to move some channels from sports pack to a choice pack. Maybe old Choice Extra is getting free hd extra?
Velocity moving to hd extra and old Choice Extra get's to keep it?

if old Choice Extra and new Choice Extra both have the same channels I don't see why they need to make that move as it will just lead to a later date where give away say free NFT ST to move people off of a older pack.


----------



## ms1960

Programming prices have gotten out of hand time for Alacarte.


----------



## n3vino

lparsons21 said:


> Both will be $68.99.


I'm under contract for $35.00, not including the extras, until next October and then to $65.00 the second year. So as I stated earlier. They can't change what I pay until my contract is up, but they can sure change the channels I get as they don't guarantee programming, only price.

But I hope the word "Classic" means what I have now and not less.


----------



## PrinceLH

One more nail in the coffin, for many that are struggling to get by. Where does it end?


----------



## mikeny

bigtom said:


> It seems that anyone currently on Choice Extra will have the same package but renamed to Choice Extra Classic. A new Choice Extra with channel differences will be introduced if you choose to change to it.


Am I correct that Total Choice Plus customers like myself will be converted to Choice Extra Classic and hiked up from $64.49 to $65.99? So that and the $1 DVR fee hike will raise my bill $2.50.

I'm liking TBlazer's figures with FiOS and I'll be there come May. The handwriting is on the wall.

Edit--It appears like Choice Extra Classic will be $68.99 so that would be a $5.50 increase altogether.


----------



## Davenlr

Does anyone remember from past changes, at what time prior to the Feb increase/changes, that DirecTv announces the channel line up for the new packages?

I want to be able to review them, and lock into one of the expiring packages if it will result in a significant savings or reduce the chance of losing channels I watch. I am currently getting Ultimate + HD Extra Pak, but rarely ever watch any of the channels added over the current Choice Xtra.


----------



## dpeters11

Though I've seen people say that they were getting a $15 increase on FIOS. Of course that's a bundle, but you can't get away from price increases by going to another provider. Eventually, it'll catch up.


----------



## spartanstew

Looks like a total increase of $3 per month for me (Choice Xtra). Not too bad, I guess (less than 3% increase).


----------



## satjay

Interested in seeing what makes up the entertainment package


----------



## NR4P

mikeny said:


> Am I correct that Total Choice Plus customers like myself will be converted to Choice Extra Classic and hiked up from $64.49 to $65.99? So that and the $1 DVR fee hike will raise my bill $2.50.
> 
> I'm liking TBlazer's figures with FiOS and I'll be there come May. The handwriting is on the wall.
> 
> Edit--It appears like Choice Extra Classic will be $68.99 so that would be a $5.50 increase altogether.


I'm in this boat too. Have TC+, pay $64.49 with locals. I'm also with the understanding I could drop my locals, save $3 to $61.49. I have OTA so locals over SAT aren't necessity.

May just drop the locals on Feb. 1, and see how they explain to me the jump on Feb. 9 to Choice Extra Classic with mandatory locals, I think. That would be one of the highest increases. $7.50 without DVR increase too. That's more than 10% to base package. Might be an interesting phone conversation.


----------



## dpeters11

I don't see where dropping locals is an option. Sure, there is a line for TC+ No Locals, but it's been there before. That's for markets where locals arent offered I believe.


----------



## gomezma1

How many channels does Mexico Plus Offer?


----------



## fireponcoal

As far as entitlement goes, well, me and the rest of Philadelphia are entitled to an RSN(regardless of whatever response you have for me.. Don't care) and if given one would be more then happy to give a bit more cash to D* every Feb..

Since we don't live in the middle of Iowa or what have you we do have many options in Philadlphia as far as providers are concerned.. Those options also come with broadband and unlimited broadband(Fios) at that for a much cheaper price...


----------



## Draconis

bigtom said:


> It seems that anyone currently on Choice Extra will have the same package but renamed to Choice Extra Classic. A new Choice Extra with channel differences will be introduced if you choose to change to it.





zimm7778 said:


> What's the difference? They are both the same price. This makes no sense unless there's channels in each package not in another.


You are not the only one who is very curious as to what the difference is.



satjay said:


> Interested in seeing what makes up the entertainment package


Same here, I just wish they offered a "nerd" packace. I like the science channels but I have to get Choice Xtra to get them and that includes a lot of channels I do not care for.


----------



## zimm7778

"mreposter" said:


> And yet Directv continues to report record quarterly profits.
> So all these huge increases in programming costs don't seem to be hurting their bottom line, quite the opposite in fact.


If I sell you a pencil one week for 10 cents and it originally costs me 20. And the next week I charged you 15 cents but it cost me 27 I'll show a record profit too but my profit margin decreased because I absorbed some of the price increase with it, That's a very small example but multiply it by millions and it's still the same principle. Record profit doesn't matter, it's what their profit margin is that does. Same can be said for any business anywhere.


----------



## lparsons21

n3vino said:


> I'm under contract for $35.00, not including the extras, until next October and then to $65.00 the second year. So as I stated earlier. They can't change what I pay until my contract is up, but they can sure change the channels I get as they don't guarantee programming, only price.
> 
> But I hope the word "Classic" means what I have now and not less.


Are you sure about not raising the prices during your contract? I don't remember price protection being a part of a new install. Hold it, they now say a new customer is guaranteed no price increase until 2013.

Assuming you signed up during a period while they have that, you should be OK until 1/1/2013 I guess. Well assuming you got that in writing!!


----------



## mitchflorida

They always give new customers one year without a price increase.


----------



## markrogo

Draconis said:


> Thing is, they say they did. According to the mailer I saw DIRECTV's programming costs have increased by almost 10% but they raised the cost of the packages by about 4%.
> 
> Granted, nobody wants to see ANY raise in the rates. But it's not as bad as it could be.


Programming costs are approximately 30-40% of your bill. So they passed along 100% of their increases to you. Worry not.


----------



## Draconis

markrogo said:


> Programming costs are approximately 30-40% of your bill. So they passed along 100% of their increases to you. Worry not.


Ok, I trust you have a link / article to support that?


----------



## mikeny

Draconis said:


> Thing is, they say they did. According to the mailer I saw DIRECTV's programming costs have increased by almost 10% but they raised the cost of the packages by about 4%.
> 
> Granted, nobody wants to see ANY raise in the rates. But it's not as bad as it could be.





markrogo said:


> Programming costs are approximately 30-40% of your bill. So they passed along 100% of their increases to you. Worry not.


Sorry to list my charges again but:

[email protected]$64.49 + $7 DVR fee=$71.49

»Choice Extra Plus Classic (or whatever it'll be called) $68.99 + $8=$76.99

»This sure feels just like an 8% increase inclusive (not 4%)and I doubt it's costing DirecTV any more for me to use the "DVR Service" these days. If anything I consider the programming costs passed along there too.


----------



## dpeters11

I haven't seen anything that TC+ customers will have to move to another package, you can stay and just pay that increase.

Never mind, I see it now.


----------



## RD in Fla

Why do folks feel the need to defend Directv on these type of threads? If the poster is an employee or stock holder, I certainly understand, but otherwise what gives? These companies are in business to make a profit, if the increases are too much the consumer has options. Directv, Comcast, Fox, et al, are all the same. The bottom line is what matters and they will push as far as the market will bear.


----------



## dpeters11

And all providers increase price, except Dish I guess. Though their first increase may be bigger than normal.


----------



## RACJ2

mitchflorida said:


> They always give new customers one year without a price increase.


I wish that were true, but in my first year the package price went up in February, less then 6 month's after I subscribed.


----------



## dpeters11

They generally run that promotion the last few months of the year.


----------



## zimm7778

"mikeny" said:


> Sorry to list my charges again but:
> 
> [email protected]$64.49 + $7 DVR fee=$71.49
> 
> »Choice Extra Plus Classic (or whatever it'll be called) $68.99 + $8=$76.99
> 
> »This sure feels just like an 8% increase inclusive (not 4%)and I doubt it's costing DirecTV any more for me to use the "DVR Service" these days. If anything I consider the programming costs passed along there too.


That's what I don't like. It's not costing them any extra for the boxes I have on my tv or for me to operate my DVR service.


----------



## dpeters11

It really could be much worse. There are providers that charge a DVR fee for each DVR, and can be the price of DirecTVs per account fee and additional receiver fee combined or more, for each one.


----------



## Kevin F

"dpeters11" said:


> It really could be much worse. There are providers that charge a DVR fee for each DVR, and can be the price of DirecTVs per account fee and additional receiver fee combined or more, for each one.


That's true. Time Warner Cable around here charges $20 per DVR


----------



## Shades228

dpeters11 said:


> And all providers increase price, except Dish I guess. Though their first increase may be bigger than normal.


They jacked up their equipment charges prior to the price freeze.


----------



## PrinceLH

There getting as greedy as the oil companies. It's just getting stupid, to have satellite, or cable anymore. If they were decent about it, they would allow ala carte. I don't want half the stuff they force me to take. I could just as easy do without locals and use my OTA setup. Between sports blackouts, to an overabundance of crappy SD channels, it's getting frustrating. This extra receiver cost is also getting too much, especially if you own your own equipment. Too bad there wasn't someone around that would start a new ala carte service and really push the satco's and cableco's for their dollars. Like big oil, it's a small few who control the marketplace.


----------



## mitchflorida

Who do you think is paying these athlete's and movie stars humongous salaries?

Its not a conspiracy against you. It's reality. And it has nothing to do with the Oil Companies. . lol


----------



## HerntDawg

I don't think my bill will go up.....carry on DTV!


----------



## zimm7778

"PrinceLH" said:


> There getting as greedy as the oil companies. It's just getting stupid, to have satellite, or cable anymore. If they were decent about it, they would allow ala carte. I don't want half the stuff they force me to take. I could just as easy do without locals and use my OTA setup. Between sports blackouts, to an overabundance of crappy SD channels, it's getting frustrating. This extra receiver cost is also getting too much, especially if you own your own equipment. Too bad there wasn't someone around that would start a new ala carte service and really push the satco's and cableco's for their dollars. Like big oil, it's a small few who control the marketplace.


Oil companies make less than 7 cents profit on every dollar they spend. Damn their greed!


----------



## bobvick1983

"zimm7778" said:


> Oil companies make less than 7 cents profit on every dollar they spend. Damn their greed!


And you are a shareholder in which petroleum concern?


----------



## lparsons21

zimm7778 said:


> Oil companies make less than 7 cents profit on every dollar they spend. Damn their greed!


Yep, 7% net profit on commodity product. That is huge for that type of product. And of course, don't forget the creative accounting that goes on to be able to publish that number with a straight face!


----------



## bixler

RD in Fla said:


> Why do folks feel the need to defend Directv on these type of threads? If the poster is an employee or stock holder, I certainly understand, but otherwise what gives? These companies are in business to make a profit, if the increases are too much the consumer has options. Directv, Comcast, Fox, et al, are all the same. The bottom line is what matters and they will push as far as the market will bear.


Exactly and this is why I never understand these threads at all. Why does everyone moan and groan about a price increase. They are simply charging what the market will bear while trying to make the most profit as possible for their execs and shareholders.


----------



## n3vino

lparsons21 said:


> Are you sure about not raising the prices during your contract? I don't remember price protection being a part of a new install. Hold it, they now say a new customer is guaranteed no price increase until 2013.
> 
> Assuming you signed up during a period while they have that, you should be OK until 1/1/2013 I guess. Well assuming you got that in writing!!


 I thought that was what a contract did. Guarantee your price for the life of the contract. According to the chart on their site, it shows what I would be paying for the package for the 24 months. The first 12 shows a 31 dollar savings and the 2nd year shows the regular price advertiised on their web site.

But in their agreement, which you can view on their web site, {number 4 : Changes in Contract Terms}, they say that they can change the terms and conditions on which they provide service, in which case they will send you a new agreement. But it also says that you can cancel the contract if you do not agree with the changes. Then it refers you to another section which talks about cancellation fees and such. HOwever, that may just be something they put in as a safety net for them. I don't think that they would make any changes during the contract, as that would certainly damage their integrity when trying to lure new customers with their special deals and promotions. So we shall see what they do. However, if they do increase my premium by the 3 dollars, it won't be that big of a deal. TW is also increasing their rates, so it doesn't matter to me if I pay Paul or Peter. But I do expect them to honor the promotion savings that they promised for the first year.

The contract does not guarantee the lease price of the boxes, dvr and whole home service. But we shall see what happens.

I do need to cancel premium channels this week as my free three months expire on Jan 2nd.


----------



## Billzebub

RACJ2 said:


> Although I agree with you, there is greed at every step of the way.
> 
> 
> 
> Actors, producers, TV stars, movie stars, players, sports team owners, leagues, etc. all want to be paid more.
> 
> Their greed leads to more expense and the networks have to pay more for the shows and events they buy.
> 
> When the network pays more, they want to keep their profits high, so they charge delivery carriers more.
> 
> Then the delivery carriers want to keep their profits high, so they charge subscribers more.
> 
> Since we have no way to profit from the programming we get from the delivery carriers, we lose.


I don't like to pay higher prices any more than anyone else, but this isn't greed, it's the market.
Actors, producers, etc. charge what the market will bear. If they overcharge, they will find a lack of buyers.
If the networks charge more than a carrier is willing to pay, they will find they are not being carried.
If the delivery carriers charge too much, they will lose customers.
This is entertainment, not a necessity. Pay for what your budget can comfortably absorb.
If you're under contract you can either pay the ETF or tough it out till your time is up. This is the bargain you made when you took that new customer deal or acquired new equipment.
I understand that times are hard. What I don't understand is the position that anyone trying to maximize their revenue is somehow greedy or evil. Individually they may be greedy or evil people, but that has nothing to do with what's going on here. I think they probably owe it to their stock holders to maximize profits, just like I owe it to my family to maximize mine. I haven't had a raise in a while but I'd take one if I could get it.


----------



## longrider

n3vino said:


> I thought that was what a contract did. Guarantee your price for the life of the contract. According to the chart on their site, it shows what I would be paying for the package for the 24 months. The first 12 shows a 31 dollar savings and the 2nd year shows the regular price advertiised on their web site.
> 
> But in their agreement, which you can view on their web site, {number 4 : Changes in Contract Terms}, they say that they can change the terms and conditions on which they provide service, in which case they will send you a new agreement. But it also says that you can cancel the contract if you do not agree with the changes. Then it refers you to another section which talks about cancellation fees and such. HOwever, that may just be something they put in as a safety net for them. I don't think that they would make any changes during the contract, as that would certainly damage their integrity when trying to lure new customers with their special deals and promotions. So we shall see what they do. However, if they do increase my premium by the 3 dollars, it won't be that big of a deal. TW is also increasing their rates, so it doesn't matter to me if I pay Paul or Peter. But I do expect them to honor the promotion savings that they promised for the first year.
> 
> The contract does not guarantee the lease price of the boxes, dvr and whole home service. But we shall see what happens.
> 
> I do need to cancel premium channels this week as my free three months expire on Jan 2nd.


I would be willing to bet that the promotional deal guarantees you X dollars off the current rate for a year or two, not a specific price for the term. If the price goes up your price goes up, you will just keep getting the specified discount


----------



## scorpion43

Shades228 said:


> They jacked up their equipment charges prior to the price freeze.


good excuse


----------



## TBlazer07

dpeters11 said:


> Though I've seen people say that they were getting a $15 increase on FIOS. Of course that's a bundle, but you can't get away from price increases by going to another provider. Eventually, it'll catch up.


 Well, like DirecTV, you can get away from the increases for 2 years if you (optionally) take the Fios contract. Even at $15 more than I was quoted last week it's still at least $50 cheaper (comparing my current 3 services to their T.P.). That's $600 a year, not chump change and not including the $250 gift card they give you to drag you in for 2 years. Like DirecTV, they have a "wewanna keep ya" department so after 2 years there is wiggle room. I got my Fios internet dropped by $15/yr (well, got much faster speed for $8 less) when I said I was going to Comcast internet (which was no lie).


----------



## zimm7778

"lparsons21" said:


> Yep, 7% net profit on commodity product. That is huge for that type of product. And of course, don't forget the creative accounting that goes on to be able to publish that number with a straight face!


As reported on the CBS Evening News several months ago meanwhile several other companies were in double digits so nice try on the straight face part. Oil companies aren't a charity. Btw, I am in no way a shareholder of any oil company unless they are part of a mutual fund I have in a retirement account. I am just sick and tired of people whining about gas prices, health insurance cost, etc going up and everyone immediately crying about those awful corporations. Corporations who employ hundreds of thousands of people. They can't charge more when their cost of business goes up or revenue goes down, people wind up out of work. Yes, I know it's happening all over the place but it could be (and could get) a lot worse. I don't like paying $3.16 a gallon either. I don't like my high copays for the doctor and medications. But such is life. I know the oil companies and insurance companies aren't the real guilty parties but it's much easier to blame them. Same applies to Directv. I dont like the increased cost at all. But like others have said, when they say they are going to fight back on channels demanding higher payments on renewal and people threaten to leave because they may lose the channel, what do you think is going to happen? They agree to it and the programming package costs go up. Blame the companies that provide the programming, don't just throw Directv under the bus because they are the ones charging the new rate to us. Again, they aren't a charity.


----------



## Gloria_Chavez

No comparison between the oil companies and PayTV providers. Oil companies provide the most efficient energy available, bar none. A kilowatt of carbon-based energy costs as little as 4 cents, while the comparable solar or wind-turbine provided hour costs, on average, 25 cents.

Oil provides MUCH more value added to our society than PayTV. Anyone who disputes this is completely unattached to reality.

As for the ratehikes, I blame the original PayTV negotiator who gave in to ESPN's demands. From that point on, all programmers compare themselves to ESPN. One week ago, History Channel made a case why it should be compared to ESPN. And frankly, if ESPN gets 5 dollars a sub, why shouldn't History Channel get at least 1.50.


----------



## zimm7778

"Gloria_Chavez" said:


> No comparison between the oil companies and PayTV providers. Oil companies provide the most efficient energy available, bar none. A kilowatt of carbon-based energy costs as little as 4 cents, while the comparable solar or wind-turbine provided hour costs, on average, 25 cents.
> 
> Oil provides MUCH more value added to our society than PayTV. Anyone who disputes this is completely unattached to reality.
> 
> As for the ratehikes, I blame the original PayTV negotiator who gave in to ESPN's demands. From that point on, all programmers compare themselves to ESPN. One week ago, History Channel made a case why it should be compared to ESPN. And frankly, if ESPN gets 5 dollars a sub, why shouldn't History Channel get at least 1.50.


I know there's no comparison as far as the product, I'm making the comparison in regards to complaints, the "record profits" which don't matter when it's the profit margin that does, and putting the blame on who's largely at fault and not the one you just pay your bill to.


----------



## harsh

Davenlr said:


> DVR Lifetime, according to the current TOS, cannot be removed unless you leave DirecTv for over a year (I believe).


The Customer Agreement currently states that you can maintain lifetime DVR service as long as you can maintain the account that you bought it on. If you change accounts, you would appear to be done; otherwise you're golden.

Since you can only suspend for up to six months per 12 month period, it would seem that your account would be closed after that time (or you would need to go active for a time).


----------



## harsh

Gloria_Chavez said:


> No comparison between the oil companies and PayTV providers. Oil companies provide the most efficient energy available, bar none. A kilowatt of carbon-based energy costs as little as 4 cents, while the comparable solar or wind-turbine provided hour costs, on average, 25 cents.


That may be the case where you live, but out here in the Pacific Northwet, hydroelectric power is much more economical than anything that burns hydrocarbons. What hydrocarbon plants we have are either natural gas or coal fired.


----------



## lparsons21

zimm7778 said:


> I know there's no comparison as far as the product, I'm making the comparison in regards to complaints, the "record profits" which don't matter when it's the profit margin that does, and putting the blame on who's largely at fault and not the one you just pay your bill to.


It is the different class of product that is being sold that tells the tale.

Oil at 7% net profit is very high for commodity products

Compare that to the grocery businesses, not the mom and pop stores, but the bigger ones, including chains. All commodity sales, net profits less that 3% and sometimes as low as 1.5%. And they aren't getting any gov't subsidies either...


----------



## mreposter

zimm7778 said:


> I know there's no comparison as far as the product, I'm making the comparison in regards to complaints, the "record profits" which don't matter when it's the profit margin that does, and putting the blame on who's largely at fault and not the one you just pay your bill to.


Looking at Directv's most recent quarterly report shows that their profit margin on US operations increased to 14.8% in Q3-2011, up from 14.3% in the year prior.

It's obvious from all the press reports that programmers and station owners are attempting to increase subscriber fees, but don't pretend that Directv is a complete innocent in this game. Directv has been highly successful in increasing it's profit margins as well.


----------



## James Long

bixler said:


> Exactly and this is why I never understand these threads at all. Why does everyone moan and groan about a price increase.


As long as people do not get carried away (over the top or off topic) these threads do little harm. They provide a good place for some to let of steam over the increases (better than punching the wife or kicking the dog) and let people come to terms over the new terms before they face their first higher bills.

I suppose if no one complained that might lead the providers into thinking that the market could bear an even greater price increase next year. So some complaining isn't a totally bad idea.


----------



## lparsons21

Considering the business they are in, DirecTV is doing a bang up job with profits. 

As to the coming rate increase, I can live with it and actually had expected it might be more. As others, I would be tickled if there were no increases, but that's not in the cards.

I'll patiently wait for the description of the Entertainment Package to come out as it might be what I'm looking for, but somehow I doubt it.

I like the Golf channel and ESPN2 for the Friday Night fights and suspect they won't be in that package.


----------



## billsharpe

dpeters11 said:


> Though I've seen people say that they were getting a $15 increase on FIOS. Of course that's a bundle, but you can't get away from price increases by going to another provider. Eventually, it'll catch up.


I switched to FiOS TV in October primarily to save $40 per month, although there were other considerations. The price supposedly is locked in for two years. Looks like I'll be saving more than $40 per month but I have no idea how much more based on the huge number of options presented by DirecTV's latest pricing plans.

The "other considerations" were the slow remote responses and DirecTV's ridiculous set replacement policy where they consider all HD DVRS from the 20 to the 24 to be equivalent. 

And Verizon's VOD blows away anything comparable available via DirecTV.

I agree that price increases will eventually catch up with me, but I do get 126 OTA channels with my rooftop antenna.


----------



## robertk328

"dpeters11" said:


> Though I've seen people say that they were getting a $15 increase on FIOS. Of course that's a bundle, but you can't get away from price increases by going to another provider. Eventually, it'll catch up.


Hulu then ;-)

You're right though - no way to insulate except to cut the cord.


----------



## ms1960

I was just thinking could a person subscribe to the family pack on directv and add the HD pack and would you get all the channels in the hd package?


----------



## n3vino

longrider said:


> I would be willing to bet that the promotional deal guarantees you X dollars off the current rate for a year or two, not a specific price for the term. If the price goes up your price goes up, you will just keep getting the specified discount


 You may be right. I'll probably get a rate increase of three bucks. The discounted price is for a year. Then it goes up the next year to the regular price. Choice extra is $65.99 a month and I get a $31.00 discount for a year. They will probably give me a $3.00 + $1.00 DVR service increase.

That being the case, I wonder if I'll have the option of keeping the Classic or going with the new Choice Extra. Over the air is starting to look pretty good in about 21 months from now when my contract expires. By then, who knows, my CRT tv might have to be replaced with a new updated set with tuner and getting a new smaller set for the bedroom to replace the analog set, might be cheaper than trying to buy a digital converter box. Of course there's the price of the antenna. Here in S.A., we do have a bunch of local channels in HD. In addition to the big four, and CW and ION, there is another independent channel. Then there's Netflix for movies.


----------



## zimm7778

I will be interested to see what channels are in the entertainment package. I love sports but really have no use for ESPN or any of their networks. I'd like the NFL Network but even if it's not in that package I don't watch it for 6 months out of the year either.


----------



## A_Bear

dpeters11 said:


> I don't see where dropping locals is an option. Sure, there is a line for TC+ No Locals, but it's been there before. That's for markets where locals arent offered I believe.


dropping locals is not an option, only avalible if we do not offer local channels in your area


----------



## dpeters11

"zimm7778" said:


> I will be interested to see what channels are in the entertainment package. I love sports but really have no use for ESPN or any of their networks. I'd like the NFL Network but even if it's not in that package I don't watch it for 6 months out of the year either.


Satellite racer made it sound like espn would still be there.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

It appears that in the past few years, prices all over (not just DirecTV, but Time Warner Cable and I'm sure Dish Network as well, and there shouldn't be a single company out there that ISN'T) keeps on increasing at least three dollars.

Now think about it. Let's say it started 5 years ago (I know it's been longer than that). Think, 5 years from now. Everybody will have been paying $30 more than they did 10 years earlier. This isn't right. Not right at all. COLA has increased and yet not many have income increase.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

James Long said:


> As long as people do not get carried away (over the top or off topic) these threads do little harm. They provide a good place for some to let of steam over the increases (better than punching the wife or kicking the dog) and let people come to terms over the new terms before they face their first higher bills.
> 
> I suppose if no one complained that might lead the providers into thinking that the market could bear an even greater price increase next year. So some complaining isn't a totally bad idea.


Think of it this way. In 10 years span, people will have paid at least $30 more than they did in the beginning. That isn't right.


----------



## markrogo

Gloria_Chavez said:


> No comparison between the oil companies and PayTV providers. Oil companies provide the most efficient energy available, bar none. A kilowatt of carbon-based energy costs as little as 4 cents, while the comparable solar or wind-turbine provided hour costs, on average, 25 cents.


The tiny system _on my house_ will generate electricity for less than half of 25 cents / hour -- before accounting for tax credits and feed-through tariffs. I submit your information is out of date. There are also wind projects that are in single-digit pennies per kilowatt/hour. http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/01...tural-gas-could-power-your-ev-for-0-70gallon/

I have no idea what this has to do with DirecTV and I'm not anti-carbon-based fuels as we need them for at least another couple of generations, but I find the facile dispensing of non-facts troublesome. So, sorry.


----------



## A_Bear

ms1960 said:


> I was just thinking could a person subscribe to the family pack on directv and add the HD pack and would you get all the channels in the hd package?


the answer to your question is NO, you will get the family channels that are included in that package (and what hd channels that also fall in that package)

and the hd extra pack inclues as follows

hd extra pack only includes the following
Price: $4.99/month
Channel Range: 560 - 568
channels:
Crime & Investigation
HDNet Movies 
Hallmark Movie Channel
MGM HD
Palladia
ShortsHD 
Smithsonian Channel
Sony Movie Channel
Universal HD


----------



## markrogo

Draconis said:


> Ok, I trust you have a link / article to support that?


Well, aside from the fact that I worked in the industry and was CFO of a cable company.... And aside from the fact that this is a well known fact... And aside from the fact that I'm being incredibly arrogant in this answer because I'm tired of being challenged when I present facts...

"The fastest-growing expense is programming. The money the cable operators pay for the rights to channels like MTV, CNN and ESPN eats up *just under $4 of every $10* they take in selling video service. Programming cost $1.0 billion at Time Warner in the first quarter, up 8 percent. At Comcast, programming cost $1.8 billion, up 9.6 percent. "

Source: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/the-problem-with-cable-is-television/

"According to Matthew Harrigan at Wunderlich Securites, in 2009 *DirecTV paid approximately $37/sub out of an ARPU of $85/sub to content owners for programming costs* (i.e. affiliate fees). In this case, affiliate fees represent roughly 43% of total revenue for DirecTV. *Similarly for Comcast, Matthew estimates programming costs at 37% of video revenue* (Comcast has high-speed data and voice revenue that are separate). "

Source: http://abovethecrowd.com/2010/04/28/affiliate-fees-make-the-world-go-round/

And there you have it. If your bill was $100, their programming costs were very approximately $40. If their programming costs went up 10% as they say -- which I don't doubt -- that's about $4 per month. _They passed 100% of their increases on to you_. Don't be naive and think otherwise.


----------



## Satelliteracer

I could only read a few pages on the phone so I figured I would cut to the chase.

Yes, programming costs are going up about 10% this year. Price increases about 4% on average for customers. Programming costs are the largest line item in Directv's budget. Billions of dollars.

Choice Xtra and Total Choice Plus customers will be merged into one package called Choice Xtra Classic. Both packages have the same channels. A new Choice Xtra will launch in Feb that is different than the current Choice Xtra. The reality is that the cost of programming continues to climb at such a steep pace that channel lineups are changing. Some channels will be moved to higher tiered packages because they are over distributed at the price they are valued at considering who is watching. In other words, they are more niche and should be available on a higher tiered packages to try and contain costs and the prices Directv needs to charge.

HD extra Pack is not going up in price. None of the premiums are increasing, though Premier base package is going up ( it includes premiums). Most bills will go up between $3 and $4. There are certainly customers that will see higher increases and many that will see less than that. 

Based on what I have seen of price increases from Some of the cable and Telco companies etc, , this far, looks like Directv is very much in line with the competition. Everyone is being hit with major programming cost increases. When you see ESPN spending billions of dollars for Monday Night Football, that cost ultimately comes to customers of pay television. The network deals, the retrans deals, the premium increases each year, etc, etc. all contribute to huge cost increases each year


----------



## xtoyz

I blame it on the 50k+ people who became irate when Fox threatened DTV last month, and they all demanded they suck it up and give it in. They gave in, and you're paying for it. Enjoy!


----------



## zimm7778

"Satelliteracer" said:


> I could only read a few pages on the phone so I figured I would cut to the chase.
> 
> Yes, programming costs are going up about 10% this year. Price increases about 4% on average for customers. Programming costs are the largest line item in Directv's budget. Billions of dollars.
> 
> Choice Xtra and Total Choice Plus customers will be merged into one package called Choice Xtra Classic. Both packages have the same channels. A new Choice Xtra will launch in Feb that is different than the current Choice Xtra. The reality is that the cost of programming continues to climb at such a steep pace that channel lineups are changing. Some channels will be moved to higher tiered packages because they are over distributed at the price they are valued at considering who is watching. In other words, they are more niche and should be available on a higher tiered packages to try and contain costs and the prices Directv needs to charge.
> 
> HD extra Pack is not going up in price. None of the premiums are increasing, though Premier base package is going up ( it includes premiums). Most bills will go up between $3 and $4. There are certainly customers that will see higher increases and many that will see less than that.
> 
> Based on what I have seen of price increases from Some of the cable and Telco companies etc, , this far, looks like Directv is very much in line with the competition. Everyone is being hit with major programming cost increases. When you see ESPN spending billions of dollars for Monday Night Football, that cost ultimately comes to customers of pay television. The network deals, the retrans deals, the premium increases each year, etc, etc. all contribute to huge cost increases each year


Not if Directv gave them the middle finger and only came to a new agreement if they agreed to go in a higher tier or lower their price. At some point the battle with these channels has to happen. I don't want to see a $100 basic package cost one day and still be paying for HD, DVR, and box fees on top of that. Can you shed any light on the entertainment package Sat Racer?


----------



## Drew2k

Today via email I received the official notification from DIRECTV of the February 2012 rate changes. Here's their PDF:

http://f.cm.directv.com/i/39/2087941240/2012PNP0112IPINGMJ792GMENG.pdf


----------



## bobvick1983

ESPN should be broken out of all the packages and made a premium service just like HBO is.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Satelliteracer said:


> HD extra Pack is not going up in price. None of the premiums are increasing, though Premier base package is going up ( it includes premiums).


How about DNS feeds?

Is there any increase there?

~Alan<~~~~~~~Hoping the answer is no...


----------



## Drew2k

*Satelliteracer:* Can you address why DIRECTV continues to charge an HD access fee when many other providers do not? (For example, my local cable provider is Cablevision. All customers have access to SD and HD channels in all of their subscription packages, with no added fee for HD.)

DIRECTV has negotiated with most content providers to supply SD and HD channels and rates have gone up, as reflected in the rate increases. Why do HD users get "penalized" for wanting to watch HD - shouldn't the cost be built in to the base package price negotiated with the content providers?


----------



## Alan Gordon

Satelliteracer said:


> Some channels will be moved to higher tiered packages because they are over distributed at the price they are valued at considering who is watching. In other words, *they are more niche* and should be available on a higher tiered packages to try and contain costs and the prices Directv needs to charge.


This is my personal fear.

In order to get the channels I want, I have to pay considerable money for channels I don't want in base packages in order to get the more "niche" channels I do want. 

Eventually, I'm either going to have to sacrifice some channels I enjoy in order to keep enjoying others, or I'm simply going to reach a point where I find it's not worth the costs to enjoy any of it... :nono2: 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Drew2k said:


> *Satelliteracer:* Can you address why DIRECTV continues to charge an HD access fee when many other providers do not? (For example, my local cable provider is Cablevision. All customers have access to SD and HD channels as part of their subscription package, with no added fee for HD.)
> 
> DIRECTV has negotiated with most content providers to supply SD and HD channels and rates have gone up, as reflected in the rate increases. Why do HD users get "penalized" for wanting to watch HD - shouldn't the cost be built in to the base package price negotiated with the content providers?


I remember when I signed up for two free years of "free HD." I was told that when my two years was up, I could get it again because DirecTV was working on something. My two years is up next year... 

~Alan


----------



## Davenlr

Alan Gordon said:


> This is my personal fear.
> 
> In order to get the channels I want, I have to pay considerable money for channels I don't want in base packages in order to get the more "niche" channels I do want.


Then switch to Choice Xtra before February when it becomes "classic"


----------



## spartanstew

Drew2k said:


> *Satelliteracer:* Can you address why DIRECTV continues to charge an HD access fee when many other providers do not? (For example, my local cable provider is Cablevision. All customers have access to SD and HD channels in all of their subscription packages, with no added fee for HD.)
> 
> DIRECTV has negotiated with most content providers to supply SD and HD channels and rates have gone up, as reflected in the rate increases. Why do HD users get "penalized" for wanting to watch HD - shouldn't the cost be built in to the base package price negotiated with the content providers?


I don't think HD users are being penalized. I think SD users are getting a benefit. If they did away with the HD fee, I would bet that all packages would go up that same $10. In other words, HD users would pay the same, but SD users would have a $10 increase.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Davenlr said:


> Then switch to Choice Xtra before February when it becomes "classic"


I'm on Choice Xtra... 

I'm interested in hearing about "Entertainment" though... 



spartanstew said:


> I don't think HD users are being penalized. I think SD users are getting a benefit. If they did away with the HD fee, I would bet that all packages would go up that same $10. In other words, HD users would pay the same, but SD users would have a $10 increase.


Don't some cable companies charge extra for HD STBs over their SD STBs?

~Alan<~~~~~~~~Not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to cablecos...


----------



## Davenlr

Alan Gordon said:


> Don't some cable companies charge extra for HD STBs over their SD STBs?
> 
> ~Alan<~~~~~~~~Not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to cablecos...


They are all different, even the same company in different towns. Here is my town, Comcast (Xfinity) charges for the package and up to 3 standard def "converters" included. Each HD box or cablecard costs $8.50 per outlet, HD DVR costs $17.95 per outlet.

So my cost, assuming the package price is the same (they are close) would be $17 extra for my two HD Tivo's plus $8.50 for the spare room receiver: $25.50

DirecTv is $10 HD + $12 for the other two rooms, or $22.00 (and right now I am getting the $10 HD free).


----------



## Drew2k

Alan Gordon said:


> I remember when I signed up for two free years of "free HD." I was told that when my two years was up, I could get it again because DirecTV was working on something. My two years is up next year...
> 
> ~Alan


Good point about that ... for a while all new customers were given "free HD for life" while existing customers who called in were offered "free HD for 2 years". It will be interesting to see what kind of offer is still on the table when many of these latter customers reach their 2 year mark in 2012. Obviously the HD Access Fee (now the "Advanced Receiver-HD" fee) is not going away ...



spartanstew said:


> I don't think HD users are being penalized. I think SD users are getting a benefit. If they did away with the HD fee, I would bet that all packages would go up that same $10. In other words, HD users would pay the same, but SD users would have a $10 increase.


I didn't know what to call it, but "penalized" seemed to work because the HD customers have to pay more upfront to acquire HD equipment than the SD customers, and HD customers end up paying $120 more annually than SD customers to be able to tune to HD channels that were most likely bundled as SD and HD channels by the content providers.

Other providers, like Cablevision, face the same choices when negotiating their packages but charge all customers the same package price with no HD access fee. To me that seems like a penalty on the DIRECTV HD customers...


----------



## Alebob911

My family looks at it this way, Entertainment for a family of 4 for 31 days = about 1.25 a person per day. It is what it is sometimes you can get deals sometimes you can't but at the end of the day its not a bad deal when looked at the way we do.

We have premier with 3 DVR's and 1 HD receiver. There is a few other receivers that I choose to keep active on the account but have not included them into the picture.


----------



## zimm7778

"Drew2k" said:


> Good point about that ... for a while all new customers were given "free HD for life" while existing customers who called in were offered "free HD for 2 years". It will be interesting to see what kind of offer is still on the table when many of these latter customers reach their 2 year mark in 2012. Obviously the HD Access Fee (now the "Advanced Receiver-HD" fee) is not going away ...
> 
> I didn't know what to call it, but "penalized" seemed to work because the HD customers have to pay more upfront to acquire HD equipment than the SD customers, and HD customers end up paying $120 more annually than SD customers to be able to tune to HD channels that were most likely bundled as SD and HD channels by the content providers.
> 
> Other providers, like Cablevision, face the same choices when negotiating their packages but charge all customers the same package price with no HD access fee. To me that seems like a penalty on the DIRECTV HD customers...


In all fairness you aren't required to have HD service. I do understand what you're saying but the same could be said from a cable customer who sees D* charges $7-$8 for a DVR fee per house, and their provider charges $10-$20 per DVR on top of the normal box fees. I've found it all pretty much comes out about even in the end, at least for what I sub to.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Davenlr said:


> They are all different, even the same company in different towns. Here is my town, Comcast (Xfinity) charges for the package and up to 3 standard def "converters" included. Each HD box or cablecard costs $8.50 per outlet, HD DVR costs $17.95 per outlet.
> 
> So my cost, assuming the package price is the same (they are close) would be $17 extra for my two HD Tivo's plus $8.50 for the spare room receiver: $25.50
> 
> DirecTv is $10 HD + $12 for the other two rooms, or $22.00 (and right now I am getting the $10 HD free).


That's kind of what I was thinking.

Thanks! 

~Alan


----------



## A_Bear

Davenlr said:


> They are all different, even the same company in different towns. Here is my town, Comcast (Xfinity) charges for the package and up to 3 standard def "converters" included. Each HD box or cablecard costs $8.50 per outlet, HD DVR costs $17.95 per outlet.
> 
> So my cost, assuming the package price is the same (they are close) would be $17 extra for my two HD Tivo's plus $8.50 for the spare room receiver: $25.50
> 
> DirecTv is $10 HD + $12 for the other two rooms, or $22.00 (and right now I am getting the $10 HD free).


you forgot the $7 a month dvr service fee


----------



## Davenlr

A_Bear said:


> you forgot the $7 a month dvr service fee


I dont have a DVR fee with Comcast (own my own lifetime Tivo's) or DirecTv (grandfathered lifetime from old DirecTivo lifetime days).


----------



## A_Bear

Davenlr said:


> I dont have a DVR fee with Comcast (own my own lifetime Tivo's) or DirecTv (grandfathered lifetime from old DirecTivo lifetime days).


very nice my good sir


----------



## Davenlr

A_Bear said:


> very nice my good sir


You are right though, to be fair, I should include it, but there were to many variables 
Comcast would be $8.50 HD fee and $9.45 DVR fee per outlet.
DirecTv would be $10 HD fee and $7 DVR fee per account.

DirecTv still wins


----------



## A_Bear

Davenlr said:


> You are right though, to be fair, I should include it, but there were to many variables
> Comcast would be $8.50 HD fee and $9.45 DVR fee per outlet.
> DirecTv would be $10 HD fee and $7 DVR fee per account.
> 
> DirecTv still wins


all i have to say is 'ouch' with a 'per outlet' fee....


----------



## Alan Gordon

Davenlr said:


> You are right though, to be fair, I should include it, but there were to many variables
> Comcast would be $8.50 HD fee and $9.45 DVR fee per outlet.
> DirecTv would be $10 HD fee and $*8* DVR fee per account.
> 
> DirecTv still wins


Future proofed it for you...

~Alan


----------



## Davenlr

Alan Gordon said:


> Future proofed it for you...
> 
> ~Alan


Yea, I still have my Series 1 Tivo with Lifetime  Im a lifetime junkie, because I take care of my stuff, so it has always paid off. The Lifetime XM subscription has REALLY paid off.


----------



## A_Bear

Alan Gordon said:


> Future proofed it for you...
> 
> ~Alan


thanks


----------



## A_Bear

Just FYI in certian areas, the RSN's will be an additional $2, but areas are tbd


----------



## Davenlr

A_Bear said:


> Just FYI in certian areas, the RSN's will be an additional $2, but areas are tbd


Wow, you are just a real Christmas Grinch there bud


----------



## JoeTheDragon

bobvick1983 said:


> ESPN should be broken out of all the packages and made a premium service just like HBO is.


just like how SKY sports is.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

A_Bear said:


> Just FYI in certian areas, the RSN's will be an additional $2, but areas are tbd


will that be what old choice extra get's for free? 
areas with more then 1 RSN?
RSN's that some people need the sports pack to get local games on (mainly people in some RSN outer market)?
Entertainment add on?

Now under a theme pack or all a cart system $2 is not that bad.


----------



## A_Bear

Davenlr said:


> Wow, you are just a real Christmas Grinch there bud


not me bro


----------



## A_Bear

from what i understand, this will only happen to very few markets


----------



## JoeTheDragon

A_Bear said:


> from what i understand, this will only happen to very few markets


so maybe Directv can pick up some of the high costs RSN like CSN NW.


----------



## Satelliteracer

Alan Gordon said:


> How about DNS feeds?
> 
> Is there any increase there?
> 
> ~Alan<~~~~~~~Hoping the answer is no...


No increase in DNS feeds that I'm aware of


----------



## A_Bear

Satelliteracer said:


> No increase in DNS feeds that I'm aware of


I do not see any on the dns either


----------



## Alan Gordon

Satelliteracer said:


> No increase in DNS feeds that I'm aware of


Good... $10.50 is already more than I'd like to pay for 6 channels... I'm still smarting from the $1 increase for the CW feeds earlier this year, and they're still in SD only. 

~Alan


----------



## Satelliteracer

zimm7778 said:


> Not if Directv gave them the middle finger and only came to a new agreement if they agreed to go in a higher tier or lower their price. At some point the battle with these channels has to happen. I don't want to see a $100 basic package cost one day and still be paying for HD, DVR, and box fees on top of that. Can you shed any light on the entertainment package Sat Racer?


The battle does happen all the time. DISH went down for 28 days with FOX and lost a lot of customers. That's the other side of the coin. D* went to battle with FOX and FOX certainly didn't get the increase they wanted, but they still got an increase. It's a balancing act. So much goes on behind the scenes that consumers never hear about. The Fox deal became public, but it is not uncommon for smaller versions of that to crop up every year. Everyone works very hard to try and get the best deal possible for all involved. D* certainly doesn't like raising prices, no business does but they have to cover their cost of goods as well. With so much competition out there, with other options on the internet, our negotiators work like crazy to get the best deal possible. The Versus situation, that was another battle. Some of the negotiations with some local broadcast channels has been going on for years, those are all battles. Longhorn Network...battles. The list goes on and on.

Entertainment Package starts in February. It's below CHOICE. Less channels= less cost to D*=lower price for consumer. The particulars will come out soon.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Davenlr said:


> Yea, I still have my Series 1 Tivo with Lifetime  Im a lifetime junkie, because I take care of my stuff, so it has always paid off. The Lifetime XM subscription has REALLY paid off.


Yeah, I'm still hoping that all my TiVo Series 3 with lifetime service only needs a new hard drive to get it back working. I miss it... 



A_Bear said:


> Just FYI in certian areas, the RSN's will be an additional $2, but areas are tbd


Will this be an optional extra $2. In other words, will you have to pay the extra $2 even if you don't want RSNs?

~Alan


----------



## Satelliteracer

Drew2k said:


> *Satelliteracer:* Can you address why DIRECTV continues to charge an HD access fee when many other providers do not? (For example, my local cable provider is Cablevision. All customers have access to SD and HD channels in all of their subscription packages, with no added fee for HD.)
> 
> DIRECTV has negotiated with most content providers to supply SD and HD channels and rates have gone up, as reflected in the rate increases. Why do HD users get "penalized" for wanting to watch HD - shouldn't the cost be built in to the base package price negotiated with the content providers?


A couple of things.

1) D* is not the only major television distributor to charge an HD fee.
2) D* charges a whole home fee for DVR and HD service, meaning if you have 1 HD or 500 HD's in your house, you pay one flat fee...same for DVR. Many of the other providers that don't charge for HD charge PER RECEIVER and that's how they elicit higher fees from customers. So if you have three HD-DVRs with DIRECTV vs three HD-DVRs with cable, what is the price difference? Or with a Telco? 
3) Everyone does it a little different. That needs to be factored in when doing any side by side comparison.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Satelliteracer said:


> Entertainment Package starts in February. It's below CHOICE. Less channels= less cost to D*=lower price for consumer. The particulars will come out soon.


I'm just waiting to see _WHAT_ channels...

From your statement, it doesn't sound like this is the rumored package without sports channels though. I was hoping it would be... 

~Alan


----------



## Drew2k

Satelliteracer said:


> A couple of things.
> 
> 1) D* is not the only major television distributor to charge an HD fee.
> 2) D* charges a whole home fee for DVR and HD service, meaning if you have 1 HD or 500 HD's in your house, you pay one flat fee...same for DVR. Many of the other providers that don't charge for HD charge PER RECEIVER and that's how they elicit higher fees from customers. So if you have three HD-DVRs with DIRECTV vs three HD-DVRs with cable, what is the price difference? Or with a Telco?
> 3) Everyone does it a little different. That needs to be factored in when doing any side by side comparison.


Thank you for responding Satelliteracer.

When new subscribers were offered Free HD Access for Life I had hoped that the HD Access fee would disappear eventually for all customers, but reading between the lines above I suspect that's not happening any time soon.

Thanks again for the reply.


----------



## Satelliteracer

bobvick1983 said:


> ESPN should be broken out of all the packages and made a premium service just like HBO is.


Good luck with Walt Disney Company doing that. I have yet to see a television distributor actually pull down ESPN during a programming squabble because everyone knows what it means, the loss of a huge number of customers. It simply isn't going to happen as most of channels like ESPN have minimum distribution requirements so they get the eyeballs for advertising.

HBO is a non advertising channel. They do not rely on the eyeballs for advertising but rather on the large payouts per subscriber that the MVPDs have to provide. Different model. The consumer is actually paying for a commercial free product, that's one of the reasons the price is what it is.


----------



## A_Bear

Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah, I'm still hoping that all my TiVo Series 3 with lifetime service only needs a new hard drive to get it back working. I miss it...
> 
> Will this be an optional extra $2. In other words, will you have to pay the extra $2 even if you don't want RSNs?
> 
> ~Alan


this is unknown at the moment, but i would think optional


----------



## Satelliteracer

Davenlr said:


> "Entertainment" sounds (and is priced) like it might be a non-sports package for those people complaining about having to pay for ESPN when they dont watch it. Should be interesting to see what this one has.


ESPN is in that package


----------



## Satelliteracer

photostudent said:


> This is what Scott Adams calls "Confusopolies". I.e, companies that supply the same content but make their package pricing too complicated for the average consumer to compare. At least Direct has smarter PR people than Netflix. No 80% increase! The possibility of a non sports channel package is a bright spot for me. But that is a subject that has been beat to death elsewhere.


When you get the communications, it is straight forward. The OP starter looks like he was posting everything (current customers, new customers, international, Spanish, English, etc). Most of the changes apply to customers that will come on board after February 9th and not current customers.


----------



## Satelliteracer

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm just waiting to see _WHAT_ channels...
> 
> From your statement, it doesn't sound like this is the rumored package without sports channels though. I was hoping it would be...
> 
> ~Alan


It will be missing some channels that CHOICE has (some sports, some non-sports).


----------



## A_Bear

Satelliteracer said:


> ESPN is in that package


Do you have a list of channels in that package? I do not have anything on the "Entertainment" package


----------



## Alan Gordon

Satelliteracer said:


> It will be missing some channels that CHOICE has (some sports, some non-sports).


Yeah... if it was just the sports channels, I'd drop to Entertainment so fast I'd hurt my wrist (clicking on the webpage).

Will it have some channels that CHOICE doesn't have? In other words, a separate package, or just a downgraded CHOICE?!

~Alan


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Satelliteracer said:


> It will be missing some channels that CHOICE has (some sports, some non-sports).


ok now what is up with Choice Xtra Classic?


----------



## A_Bear

Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah... if it was just the sports channels, I'd drop to Entertainment so fast I'd hurt my wrist (clicking on the webpage).
> 
> Will it have some channels that CHOICE doesn't have? In other words, a separate package, or just a downgraded CHOICE?!
> 
> ~Alan


Be sure when you change your package that you do not 'drop' your rebates


----------



## A_Bear

JoeTheDragon said:


> ok now what is up with Choice Xtra Classic?


the CHOICE XTRA CLASSIC is the current CHOICE XTRA package, there will be a new CHOICE XTRA package and this cone that you have the option for now will be called THE CHOICE XTRA CLASSIC package after FEB. 9th


----------



## spartanstew

A_Bear said:


> Do you have a list of channels in that package? I do not have anything on the "Entertainment" package


Answered.



Satelliteracer said:


> The particulars will come out soon.


----------



## A_Bear

spartanstew said:


> Answered.


thanks, just missed that lol. I also work for D* i just was wondering if Satelliteracer got the update before me :grin:


----------



## A_Bear

I will be back in a few days, just have some time off. I will try to answer any more questions at that time. 

Thanks 
A_Bear


----------



## Devo1237

I'm really curious about the channel difference between the Choice Extra Classic and Choice Extra (new package). I've been hanging on to my original Total Choice package for years, but with the option of moving up to what was called Total Choice Plus for only a few more bucks, I might finally upgrade to get a couple of the niche channels I've been missing. 

The question is if I do upgrade my package to Choice Extra, should I do it before or after Feb 9?


----------



## carl6

A_Bear said:


> thanks, just missed that lol. I also work for D* i just was wondering if Satelliteracer got the update before me :grin:


My guess would be ...

Yes.


----------



## bobvick1983

"Satelliteracer" said:


> Good luck with Walt Disney Company doing that. I have yet to see a television distributor actually pull down ESPN during a programming squabble because everyone knows what it means, the loss of a huge number of customers. It simply isn't going to happen as most of channels like ESPN have minimum distribution requirements so they get the eyeballs for advertising.
> 
> HBO is a non advertising channel. They do not rely on the eyeballs for advertising but rather on the large payouts per subscriber that the MVPDs have to provide. Different model. The consumer is actually paying for a commercial free product, that's one of the reasons the price is what it is.


Oh, I know that Disney will not let it happen, but with the out of control cost of sports programming consumers that do not wish to pay for ESPN etc.. Should not be forced to. This is one case where I believe that the FCC should force the programmers to allow DBS, cable, and IPTV providers to break these channels out of their packages. It would be nice if the American DBS providers could have small theme packs like their Canadian counterparts.


----------



## zimm7778

"bobvick1983" said:


> Oh, I know that Disney will not let it happen, but with the out of control cost of sports programming consumers that do not wish to pay for ESPN etc.. Should not be forced to. This is one case where I believe that the FCC should force the programmers to allow DBS, cable, and IPTV providers to break these channels out of their packages. It would be nice if the American DBS providers could have small theme packs like their Canadian counterparts.


I do not believe the FCC needs to be involved. These channels are negotiated contracts between the providers and carriers. Maybe I'm the naive one but I really think if a major outlet like D* or Comcast stood their ground and showed the public what they were paying for these channels before, what they want for them now, what that translates to them in terms of bill increase, and the additional demands they are asking for people might be more understanding. As it stands I'm seriously going to consider this entertainment package or dropping the service altogether when my contract is up. I paid $42.99 a month plus $5 for an extra box and whatever the dvr fee was then, I think like $5 or $6. 8 years later I'm currently going to be paying $68.99 for the base package plus $10 HD + 2 extra boxes + $8 for a DVR fee. My bills over $100 a month with taxes and that's with no premiums at all.


----------



## bobvick1983

zimm7778 said:


> I do not believe the FCC needs to be involved. These channels are negotiated contracts between the providers and carriers. Maybe I'm the naive one but I really think if a major outlet like D* or Comcast stood their ground and showed the public what they were paying for these channels before, what they want for them now, what that translates to them in terms of bill increase, and the additional demands they are asking for people might be more understanding. As it stands I'm seriously going to consider this entertainment package or dropping the service altogether when my contract is up. I paid $42.99 a month plus $5 for an extra box and whatever the dvr fee was then, I think like $5 or $6. 8 years later I'm currently going to be paying $68.99 for the base package plus $10 HD + 2 extra boxes + $8 for a DVR fee. My bills over $100 a month with taxes and that's with no premiums at all.


You have an excellent idea for informing the public, unfortuniately it will never happen, as the service providers (DBS, cable, etc...) are content to just pass the cost on to us, and the programmers, NFL, NBA, NCAA, etc... are perfectly happy increasing the cost of the programming. I never want the government to be involved where it does not need to be, but this situation is getting out of hand. I can remember back about 12 years ago when I first signed up with DirecTV (I have been on and off with them) the Premier package or what ever they called it back then was about $86.00 per month. I think that the DVR fee (it was Tivo back then) was about $10 or so and mirroring fees were either $5 or $6. A lot of content has been added, but I can't say that the value of it is worth an extra $35 per month. If we could ever have "theme" pacakges, I believe that it would help. Do it like Shaw Direct (Star Choice) and Bell ExpressVu do, "x" number of themes for $xxx per month. But, I will go on and keep being a part of the problem just like most every one, I will pay the extra $6 or $8 per month, and ***** about it again next year.


----------



## Satelliteracer

JoeTheDragon said:


> Additional TV??? will RVU people have to pay pre TV?
> 
> Just wait for cables all vid to no Additional TV fees.


Additional TV is simply a name change. The world is changing and in the future not everyone is going to need a receiver to have DIRECTV programming on other televisions. Nevertheless, that programming still needs to be mirrored on those devices through a server or other means.


----------



## Drew2k

I just realized, I should see a dramatic decrease in my bill after February 2012!  

I have 3 TVs in the house and 7 receivers total, with 5 hooked up to the same TV. Those 5 receivers currently cost me $30 a month in "leased receiver" and "additional" receiver fees. With the change to paying for each "additional TV" in February I should be paying only $14 a month (one primary TV plus 2 additional TVs)! 

Thanks DIRECTV! You just saved me $16 a month in mirror fees!!!!!! :up:


























 :sure:


----------



## fireponcoal

Regarding mirror fees with RVU, lame. Quite simply, lame. 

At least I have no mirror fee when I use bitmetv or passthepopcorn.


----------



## Satelliteracer

zimm7778 said:


> What's the difference? They are both the same price. This makes no sense unless there's channels in each package not in another.


It makes perfect sense because you answered your own question correctly.


----------



## Satelliteracer

ms1960 said:


> Programming prices have gotten out of hand time for Alacarte.


The economic reality is that you would pay more for less if that happens.

Let's use ESPN as an example. Almost every customer on every distribution platform pays for ESPN. The rates have been published here time and again.

ESPN goes out and does Monday Night Football deals for billions of dollars based on that revenue and the eyeballs that will watch (advertising revenue). If ESPN goes a la carte, as you suggest, their viewership drops in half but they still owe the NFL, MLB, various conferences (Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, Big East, etc, etc, etc). So that rate that everyone was paying, now just doubled or even tripled for those really want it just to keep the same cash flow that ESPN had in the past....cash flow they need to pay for those rights.

Just one example, but the same is true for most channels. Everyone pays a little bit and you get a lot of channels, even some you don't care about. If you break it up into only the ones you want, then you will obviously get less channels (because that's the whole point) but you will pay considerably more for each one that you do want vs what you pay today because those channels are only receiving revenue now from those that "choose" the channels rather than everyone paying a smaller piece for more channels.

You will get less and pay more. That is the economic reality of a la carte.


----------



## cmasia

Hi SR.
That post should be made into a sticky.
People's inabiility to grasp this simple concept continues to amaze me.

On a side pricing note, is FS+ in HD full time on the way? Or is it being moved to Sports Pack?
It's my only gripe about what I pay. 
$14.99 a month without 24 / 7 HD is beyond belief. 
(Yeah, I know, I don't have to pay, but soccer and rugby is important to me.)

Happy New Year, SR!


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes, programming costs are going up about 10% this year. Price increases about 4% on average for customers. Programming costs are the largest line item in Directv's budget. Billions of dollars.


Will we be seeing more basic HD channels added in 2012? Will the new contracts include both the SD and HD feeds? I would think these channels would want as many eyes on their HD feeds as possible.



Satelliteracer said:


> Good luck with Walt Disney Company doing that. I have yet to see a television distributor actually pull down ESPN during a programming squabble because everyone knows what it means, the loss of a huge number of customers. It simply isn't going to happen as most of channels like ESPN have minimum distribution requirements so they get the eyeballs for advertising.


What if every provider pulled it down at once? I wonder what would happen then? :sure:


----------



## ChicagoBlue

mreposter said:


> And yet Directv continues to report record quarterly profits.
> So all these huge increases in programming costs don't seem to be hurting their bottom line, quite the opposite in fact.


Their costs go up every year. You would have a point if their costs were fixed and not increasing.

If you had a product that cost you $1.00 and you sold it to your customers for $1.50 you would have a nice profit margin.

If the next year that product cost you $1.25 and you still sold it to your customers for $1.50, your profit margin would decrease significantly.

DTV's costs go up every year, some years more than others...see FOX deal that kicks in for 2012.

It would be an interesting examination to go back and look at all the people here whining and screaming about the Fox channels coming down and insisting DTV do whatever it takes to keep them on. How many of those same people are not whining and screaming over the price increase. As if these deals grow on trees and don't mean costs don't go up considerably.


----------



## dishrich

Satelliteracer said:


> Choice Xtra and Total Choice Plus customers will be merged into one package called Choice Xtra Classic. Both packages have the same channels.


Well I figured this would be the year that TC+ WOULD finally be "merged" w/another pkg - with a corresponding price increase, of course. 

Before they raised rates the last time, TC+ was $3 LESS than Choice Xtra...so when they raised it $3 to it's current rate, they also raised TC+ $4.50 - so that the price difference was only $1.50. When that happened at the time, I figured on the next rate increase, they would do the SAME thing again w/TC+ subs, so that all TC+ & Choice Xtra subs were paying the SAME price - which is EXACTLY what is happening!

Count me in as NOT being happy about this (either)...& with no basic HD additions to even show for it, I don't see myself being around for much longer anyway, (even WITH lifetime DVR) so it's probably a moot point for me... :shrug:


----------



## Alan Gordon

bobvick1983 said:


> It would be nice if the American DBS providers could have small theme packs like their Canadian counterparts.


Comcast is currently trying theme packs. I LOVE the idea, but not the types of bundling...

For instance, the KIDS theme pack has ABC Family, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon. Both of which contains programming for adults as well at night... and The Hub has nostalgic programming that many adults like as well. I understand the bundling, but you're forced to get channels with nothing BUT children's content in order to get the channels that aren't JUST for kids...

Another instance would be the NEWS & INFO theme pack. I'd gladly do without Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc. from the NEWS section, but I really like some of the "INFO" channels like Cooking Channel, DIY, History, National Geographic, Planet Green, and Science Channel.

I love the idea... just not the follow through...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

ChicagoBlue said:


> It would be an interesting examination to go back and look at all the people here whining and screaming about the Fox channels coming down and insisting DTV do whatever it takes to keep them on. How many of those same people are not whining and screaming over the price increase. As if these deals grow on trees and don't mean costs don't go up considerably.


Since the only thing on the (national) FOX channels I was watching at the time was "American Horror Story"... I was all for DirecTV pulling them.

At the time, I was hoping for a deal to be made prior to "Justified" starting up in January, but since my HDTV was acting up early last year, I didn't see any of "Justified" season two, and given my current financial status, I probably won't be purchasing S2 on Blu-ray any time soon, meaning short of a marathon, I won't be caring about S3.

So... you can omit me from the people whining about the FOX suite of channels... 

~Alan


----------



## zimm7778

"Alan Gordon" said:


> Comcast is currently trying theme packs. I LOVE the idea, but not the types of bundling...
> 
> For instance, the KIDS theme pack has ABC Family, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon. Both of which contains programming for adults as well at night... and The Hub has nostalgic programming that many adults like as well. I understand the bundling, but you're forced to get channels with nothing BUT children's content in order to get the channels that aren't JUST for kids...
> 
> Another instance would be the NEWS & INFO theme pack. I'd gladly do without Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc. from the NEWS section, but I really like some of the "INFO" channels like Cooking Channel, DIY, History, National Geographic, Planet Green, and Science Channel.
> 
> I love the idea... just not the follow through...
> 
> ~Alan


I don't have a problem with the packs as you present them. There aren't too many channels that don't have programming for more than one group of people.


----------



## zimm7778

"Satelliteracer" said:


> The economic reality is that you would pay more for less if that happens.
> 
> Let's use ESPN as an example. Almost every customer on every distribution platform pays for ESPN. The rates have been published here time and again.
> 
> ESPN goes out and does Monday Night Football deals for billions of dollars based on that revenue and the eyeballs that will watch (advertising revenue). If ESPN goes a la carte, as you suggest, their viewership drops in half but they still owe the NFL, MLB, various conferences (Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, Big East, etc, etc, etc). So that rate that everyone was paying, now just doubled or even tripled for those really want it just to keep the same cash flow that ESPN had in the past....cash flow they need to pay for those rights.
> 
> Just one example, but the same is true for most channels. Everyone pays a little bit and you get a lot of channels, even some you don't care about. If you break it up into only the ones you want, then you will obviously get less channels (because that's the whole point) but you will pay considerably more for each one that you do want vs what you pay today because those channels are only receiving revenue now from those that "choose" the channels rather than everyone paying a smaller piece for more channels.
> 
> You will get less and pay more. That is the economic reality of a la carte.


I completely understand what you are saying but I see a different result in the long run. Short term, everything you said is correct. But as the fees for ESPN continued to climb and more people dropped them, they'd be getting even less than they started out with. Then the decision is theirs, either stop making these ridiculous overpriced deals like MNF, keep doing so and have less and less people supporting it because their price continues to sky rocket, or go out of business. As I've said before, none of these stations like ESPN want a higher tier/sports tier/etc because when they see their $$$ decline as less people pay for it they will know how important they really are and lose their upper hand in any further negotiations making their threats worthless.


----------



## usnret

Does an HD channel cost D more than an SD channel to transmit ?


----------



## Hotscot

One of the aspects of the a la carte issue is the psychological effect of seeing hundreds of channels you have no interest in and feeling that you pay for them nevertheless.
Shopping, religious, Spanish etc..

Me, I have DirecTV for maybe five regular channels and another two or three channels I occasionally dip into. So @10 channels in total. However I understand that with a la carte they may just cost the same as the package.


----------



## SWTESTER

TBlazer07 said:


> Well, like DirecTV, you can get away from the increases for 2 years if you (optionally) take the Fios contract. Even at $15 more than I was quoted last week it's still at least $50 cheaper (comparing my current 3 services to their T.P.). That's $600 a year, not chump change and not including the $250 gift card they give you to drag you in for 2 years. Like DirecTV, they have a "wewanna keep ya" department so after 2 years there is wiggle room. I got my Fios internet dropped by $15/yr (well, got much faster speed for $8 less) when I said I was going to Comcast internet (which was no lie).


You are lucky. In the NW, Frontier FiOS doesn't seem to want any business. No new DVR's either. No new DISH DVR's yet announced as well. I am signed up for D* starting in late Jan. Beware of the 2nd year with FiOS as my Extreme goes up $30 to $125.


----------



## Drew2k

TheRatPatrol said:


> Will we be seeing more basic HD channels added in 2012? Will the new contracts include both the SD and HD feeds? I would think these channels would want as many eyes on their HD feeds as possible.


Excellent question... I hope we see some more HD as part of the rate increases. After all, you'd hope that when the rates go up you get more for your money, but we know that's not always the case.


----------



## z28lt1

Devo1237 said:


> I'm really curious about the channel difference between the Choice Extra Classic and Choice Extra (new package). I've been hanging on to my original Total Choice package for years, but with the option of moving up to what was called Total Choice Plus for only a few more bucks, I might finally upgrade to get a couple of the niche channels I've been missing.
> 
> The question is if I do upgrade my package to Choice Extra, should I do it before or after Feb 9?


Before. I probably will be doing the same. It is doubtful the post 2/9 package will be better (because it would cost more if it was), and if it is better, you can always switch to a current package without much issue. You will likely not be able swith to a non current package.


----------



## Digweedfan

Steve said:


> I wonder which channels are in that "Preferred Choice" package for $39.99? Can't find it on the DirecTV website. If anyone has a link, would appreciate it.
> 
> I'm curious if it's simply "Choice" minus OTA locals? Or, if not, which sat-only channels are missing?


My apologies if someone already posted a response for you, but here is Preferred Choice: directv.com/DTVAPP/content/packages/international


----------



## bobvick1983

zimm7778 said:


> I completely understand what you are saying but I see a different result in the long run. Short term, everything you said is correct. But as the fees for ESPN continued to climb and more people dropped them, they'd be getting even less than they started out with. Then the decision is theirs, either stop making these ridiculous overpriced deals like MNF, keep doing so and have less and less people supporting it because their price continues to sky rocket, or go out of business. As I've said before, none of these stations like ESPN want a higher tier/sports tier/etc because when they see their $$$ decline as less people pay for it they will know how important they really are and lose their upper hand in any further negotiations making their threats worthless.


Could not agree with you more. ESPN is the one that agreed to pay the exorbitant amounts to the NFL. 
Also, as far as a-la-carte goes, no one said that packages and a-la-carte have to be mutually exclusive. A-la-carte can be offered as an option. In the TVRO days, the programmers like HBO Direct, Turnervision, Netlink, Superstar, etc... all would sell you a channel on an a-la-carte basis, or you could save money by getting a package. You could supplement a base package with channels that were in a higher tier by adding that channel you wanted a-la-carte. Now, I understand that with TVRO, there was no cost to those programmers for uplinking since it was the master feed uplinked by the broadcaster, and a DBS provider has that cost, however the DBS providers could still do something similar IF the progam providers (Disney, News Corp, etc...) would allow them to. It would allow more CHOICE which is exactly what the programm providers do not want us to have.


----------



## Alan Gordon

zimm7778 said:


> I don't have a problem with the packs as you present them. There aren't too many channels that don't have programming for more than one group of people.


Looking at the MOVIES theme pack, you have a few channels (Hallmark Movie Channel & IFC for example) that has programming other than movies, but a good majority is in fact movies... and it's certainly the main focus on their channels. While I'd personally prefer HMC be included in a family style theme pack, I do feel that this theme pack is mostly fine.

I'd prefer the NEWS and INFO theme to be split because I enjoy SOME documentary style programming, but I have zero interest in the state of 24-hour news networks.

The KIDS theme pack is the worst to me. Nickleodeon is for kids half the day, and adults the other part of the day. Cartoon Network has programming for adults at night (Adult Swim), so it's not really appropriate. While one could argue (which I sort of did earlier) that The Hub has some programming for adults at night thanks to nostalgic programming, there is no question the channel is 100% aimed at kids and families, so I'd be willing to let it slide. Though I watch some programming on the other channels, I think they are in a fitting package, but the two channels are out of place in my opinion.

I'm obviously not aware of the contractual issues involved, but if it was me, I'd prefer to alter the theme packs... offering more packages.

~Alan


----------



## Billzebub

TheRatPatrol said:


> What if every provider pulled it down at once? I wonder what would happen then? :sure:


I suspect there might be some antitrust issues involved if that happened.


----------



## James Long

usnret said:


> Does an HD channel cost D more than an SD channel to transmit ?


Yes. They take up more space on the satellites, which is the core cost of transmission. Not to mention the need to buy additional satellites and orbital slots and design and supply more expensive dishes and receivers to be able to handle HD signals. (Plus many networks want additional payment for the HD feed.) Delivering HD is a major expense that is in no way covered by the token $0 to $10 monthly line item fee on the bill.

Just like locals. Carrying locals has led to more complicated satellites and the need for multiple regional uplink centers and backhauls. A cost that is not covered in the "$3" more DirecTV charges in markets with locals. But people expect locals (cable has them) so there is a return on the investment and the true cost can be spread out over all customers.


----------



## Barcthespark

cmasia said:


> Hi SR.
> That post should be made into a sticky.
> People's inabiility to grasp this simple concept continues to amaze me.
> 
> On a side pricing note, is FS+ in HD full time on the way? Or is it being moved to Sports Pack?
> It's my only gripe about what I pay.
> $14.99 a month without 24 / 7 HD is beyond belief.
> (Yeah, I know, I don't have to pay, but soccer and rugby is important to me.)
> 
> Happy New Year, SR!


For some it is not an "inability to grasp this simple concept". It is the principle to control which channels they pay for and the power to tell channels such as ESPN to stick it in their ear.


----------



## SledgeHammer

I currently have Total Choice+ & Locals & HD and a single HD-DVR. Am I to understand that I'm going from $82.99 to $86.99?

I have the free HD promo, so that'll knock it down to $76.99 and I have the $5/mo credit for bundling, so that'll knock it down to $71.99...

Man, I know we b*tch about these price increases every year, but man, this is getting ridiculous! When I first got my DTV in 2002, I was paying $39.99 a month!! Only thing I have ever added is a single HD-DVR and HD.

I sure as heck would have kept the SD GUI if it would save me $1/mo haha... it sure as heck ain't worth that much money.

I don't think any of my service bills have even gone up a fraction of DirecTV in the 10yrs I've had a house. Most have not gone up at all.

Maybe I should just give up TV period.


----------



## Davenlr

SledgeHammer said:


> Maybe I should just give up TV period.


If you arent under contract, which it sounds like you are not, just switch to Dish for two years, save money on their promo rates, then after two years, switch back to DirecTv as a new customer, and get the promos again.


----------



## Alan Gordon

SledgeHammer said:


> When I first got my DTV in 2002, I was paying $39.99 a month!! Only thing I have ever added is a single HD-DVR and HD.


If memory serves, when I first got DirecTV (1995), we had their Total Choice package (top of the line at the time), and I'm thinking it was $29.99 or $32.99. 

~Alan


----------



## SledgeHammer

Davenlr said:


> If you arent under contract, which it sounds like you are not, just switch to Dish for two years, save money on their promo rates, then after two years, switch back to DirecTv as a new customer, and get the promos again.


I'm under contract for the HD promo .


----------



## Davenlr

SledgeHammer said:


> I'm under contract for the HD promo .


You have Free HD for life, or Free HD for two years? In either case, a promo doesnt start a contract, only activating a new box does. If it hasnt been two years since you activated your HD box tho, then yea, you are stuck with the rest of us...Watching our money go to FOX


----------



## Alan Gordon

Davenlr said:


> You have Free HD for life, or Free HD for two years? In either case, a promo doesnt start a contract, only activating a new box does. If it hasnt been two years since you activated your HD box tho, then yea, you are stuck with the rest of us...Watching our money go to FOX


I got two years of FREE HD for starting a new 2 year contract. I'm pretty sure he did as well... 

~Alan


----------



## Gloria_Chavez

About 18 months ago I did some back-of-the-envelope number crunching to figure out what ESPN would cost a-la-carte: 25 dollars.

And it's a difficult exercise in large part because it's dynamic (as opposed to static) and you have to make assumptions about the number of PayTv subscribers who would pay that 25 dollars (i don't recall the number I used in the calculation).

Point is, Disney has a good thing going, and it's not going to change.

And PayTV distributors aren't going to show more resistance until they see significant erosion in their subscriber base that they believe will reverse were it not for sports programming.

Given stagnation of median incomes, I believe that we're almost there.

When analysts covering the PayTV industry are already coining the term, ESPN-Tax, and quantifying it as a 100 dollars a year surcharge on the subscriber, you know somethings wrong.

P.S. And just wait until NBC, CBS and Fox Broadcasting contracts come up for renewal. The new NFL contract has the networks paying 63% more compared to the current contract.


----------



## Davenlr

Gloria_Chavez said:


> P.S. And just wait until NBC, CBS and Fox Broadcasting contracts come up for renewal. The new NFL contract has the networks paying 63% more compared to the current contract.


Directv and the other providers are somewhat at fault here. While I realize they spent a lot of money for their spot beam satellites to offer locals, they could do us all a favor and offer a NO LOCALS discount, which would cut the payments to the networks for every one of us that puts up a rooftop antenna. I have never even used DirecTv for locals, they all get recorded on my Tivo/antenna box. That is $3 or $5 a month I am paying to the networks to watch what I get free.


----------



## jmpfaff

Not saying I am a fan of a $4 per month price increase. But DirecTV and its shareholders have the right to make a reasonable rate of return on the multi-billion dollar investment they have made in their satellite constellation.

And most of the people on this forum are probably indirect shareholders in DirecTV via one or more mutual funds. (And Comcast, and Dish, and Disney, and the dreaded oil companies, and WalMart, etc.)

I'm not saying there isn't plenty of greed behind this price increase...just that the greed isn't DirecTV -- it's the content creators, most specifically the NFL and NCAA. (I'm guessing none of the readers of this forum are shareholders of these entities either directly or indirectly).

I totally disagree with SR that ala carte would be a disaster for the consumers...ESPN's cost per subscribing household would skyrocket in the short term, subscribers would flee, they'd go bankrupt by the end of the 2012, and the new Monday Night Football provider would get it at a much lower rate. 

One question I would like SR to address is if the fact that locals appear to be becoming mandatory is driven by clauses in carriage contracts requiring DirecTV to pay for all subscribers in the DMA even if they don't provide that subscriber with locals?


----------



## DawgLink

jmpfaff said:


> But DirecTV and its shareholders have the right to make a reasonable rate of return on the multi-billion dollar investment they have made in their satellite constellation.


Yet they also know that many of their subscribers are tied into yearly deals with DirecTV and have little to no actual competition in their areas. So, DirecTV can raise rates and have them pay it because they have no other choices.


----------



## n3vino

Davenlr said:


> If you arent under contract, which it sounds like you are not, just switch to Dish for two years, save money on their promo rates, then after two years, switch back to DirecTv as a new customer, and get the promos again.


I understand that Dish's HD is substandard. Does anyone know that to be a fact?


----------



## bidger

n3vino said:


> I understand that Dish's HD is substandard. Does anyone know that to be a fact?


Is there a Sears or a DISH Network showroom in your area? If so pay a visit and make your own determinations.


----------



## wingrider01

DawgLink said:


> Yet they also know that many of their subscribers are tied into yearly deals with DirecTV and have little to no actual competition in their areas. So, DirecTV can raise rates and have them pay it because they have no other choices.


exactly what my electric provider did, they are the only game in the area. Prices start 01/01/2012 are 18.00 a month higher then what they where on 12/01/2011 - and the public service commision approved the rates. same thing different company


----------



## lparsons21

n3vino said:


> I understand that Dish's HD is substandard. Does anyone know that to be a fact?


I wouldn't call it substandard, but it is different. I just switched from Dish a few months ago and the quality of the HD picture wasn't even a consideration as a reason.

As suggested, go into a store with both if you can, like a local dealer that does both and see for yourself.


----------



## harsh

bidger said:


> Is there a Sears or a DISH Network showroom in your area? If so pay a visit and make your own determinations.


As human memory tends to look better with age, it is surely best to find a local B&M that handles both and can show each side-by-side (or at least on the same TV).

Many have observed that program PQ varies from one showing (or one game) to the next so it is best to lock the time variable in when doing a comparison.


----------



## harsh

Satelliteracer said:


> The economic reality is that you would pay more for less if that happens.


Could you quantify what the Entertainment pack sacrifices to cost less than Choice?


----------



## VelvetUn

I was glancing through old threads, curious to see how much my bill has changed over the years, and I found this. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2023709#post2023709

1998 Total choice PLATINUM 47.99
1999 Total Choice $29.99
2000 Total Choice $31.99
2003 Total Choice $33.99
2004 Total Choice $36.99
2005 Total Choice $41.99
2006 Total Choice $44.99
2007 Total Choice $47.99
2008 Total Choice $50.99
2009 Total Choice $53.99
2010 Total Choice $57.49
2011 Total Choice $60.49
2012 Total Choice $64.49

I've been a customer since 2004, so I have seen a 74% increase in my rate. Not to continue the war over is it fair to increase prices, but that seems probably inline with what D* has incurred from networks.


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## markrw58

As I usually do when there is a price increase coming I look at alternatives and this is the first time that the alternatives will be cheaper for me. If the $10 HD credit goes away it will be a large enough increase that I will reduce or drop dtv or switch to another provider. It sucks, I love dtv and have been with them since 95 but I have reached my limit on what I am willing to pay.


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## ChicagoBlue

Davenlr said:


> Directv and the other providers are somewhat at fault here. While I realize they spent a lot of money for their spot beam satellites to offer locals, they could do us all a favor and offer a NO LOCALS discount, which would cut the payments to the networks for every one of us that puts up a rooftop antenna. I have never even used DirecTv for locals, they all get recorded on my Tivo/antenna box. That is $3 or $5 a month I am paying to the networks to watch what I get free.


There are customers without locals in their base package, I am one of them.

DTV wanted to compete with cable and DISH so they added local channels. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Yes, it would save you a few dollars if they never went down the locals path, but they also would be stuck around 10Million customers if not less and that would mean a lot of other things, including the possibility that DTV doesn't even exist.


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## ChicagoBlue

TheRatPatrol said:


> What if every provider pulled it {ESPN} down at once? I wonder what would happen then? :sure:


Disney, Fox and most of the biggies are too smart for this. They stagger their contract end dates. Thus by doing this, they prevent this from happening. If DISH took down ESPN while they were still in contract at the same time Time Warner and DTV legitimately had their contract terms ending, a court order would simply force DISH to put ESPN back up.

All the biggies make sure their contracts end at different years or times during the year to prevent this very thing from happening.

Nice idea, not going to happen. Plus, it's collusion, which is illegal. :lol:


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## ChicagoBlue

usnret said:


> Does an HD channel cost D more than an SD channel to transmit ?


Yes, in a number of ways if you truly count the opportunity costs, the equipment needed, etc.

One HD channel is about 5 or 6 SD channels. So capacity is a cost value trade component in this.

The encoders are more expensive.

Then you have the downstream costs in that DTV has their HD signals on Ka and they are more suspectible to rain fade than the SD signals on Ku. As a result, more calls to their call centers which leads to more costs. Longer install times, more expensive dish than a 18" SD dish, etc, etc.

At some point those costs will equalize a bit, but not entirely. Years down the road when DTV can put some of their HD channels at Ku and use a different dish, it will reduce the rain fade issue, reduce some of the hardware costs.

To do it right, all these costs (both real and opportunity) have to be factored in and it does cost them more to transmit HD than SD for just some of the reasons stated.


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## huskerhead

Davenlr said:


> If you arent under contract, which it sounds like you are not, just switch to Dish for two years, save money on their promo rates, then after two years, switch back to DirecTv as a new customer, and get the promos again.


I've done that a few times but the wife wants me to put a stop to that - trying to remember the channel #'s for each provider every two years is a hassle. Both services are equally good but now that Directv actually has a good dvr we'll probably stay with them after our contract is up in July. If something changes I'll have no problem switching providers again (well, except for the wife). No reason to be true to a company providing a service - they certainly do not care about us (whoever the company is).


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## ChicagoBlue

zimm7778 said:


> I completely understand what you are saying but I see a different result in the long run. Short term, everything you said is correct. But as the fees for ESPN continued to climb and more people dropped them, they'd be getting even less than they started out with. Then the decision is theirs, either stop making these ridiculous overpriced deals like MNF, keep doing so and have less and less people supporting it because their price continues to sky rocket, or go out of business. As I've said before, none of these stations like ESPN want a higher tier/sports tier/etc because when they see their $$$ decline as less people pay for it they will know how important they really are and lose their upper hand in any further negotiations making their threats worthless.


I'm with SR on this one for a couple of reasons.

The people in this country that are sports fanatics carry a big stick and they want their football, baseball, basketball, college sports, etc. If you pull back on the television contracts, the money for salaries, stadiums, etc takes a big hit. The money has to come from somewhere, right now it's television. Those salaries of players are not going to go backward in any meaningful way and television rights is the most efficient and least costly per consumer to pay for them.

If ESPN were to go out of business, someone else would step into the vacuum and pay it.

We could go back the last 40 years and see how many fans scream about player salaries and the costs of sports, but the ratings remain strong, the stadiums are largely filled and the train keeps on moving.

We can go back and read the threads here on DBS, I'd bet, and each year the price increases come and predictions of gloom and doom follow but never happen.

There is no alternative threat for sports right now. Netflix or Hulu or anyone like that isn't going to be able to offer sports with the $$$ needed to grab those products and distribute. Nor are the leagues going to cut off the money supply they get from the networks and the distributors.

I don't see this ending for decades, if at all.


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## tomski35

If they're going to increase pricing, they better fix the speed issue with the boxes. The new GUI didn't fix the issue. I'm going to have a hard time convincing the wife it's worth it stay with DTV.


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## ChicagoBlue

Barcthespark said:


> For some it is not an "inability to grasp this simple concept". It is the principle to control which channels they pay for and the power to tell channels such as ESPN to stick it in their ear.


If your favorite grocery store decided to tell Coke to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

If your favorite sporting goods store decided to tell Nike to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

There are simple realities here. Every distributor must carry ESPN or become a bit player. That is reality. The distributors know it, ESPN knows it. Thus, ESPN can demand rates that are in the stratosphere because no carrier wants to be without them and watch millions of their customers who don't give a damn about a $3 increase per month leave. That is reality.

It's easy for any of us to sit behind a keyboard and say DTV or TWC or DISH needs to play hardball and show ESPN or HBO or Fox or FILL IN THE BLANK who is boss. Then there are the realities and the repercussions that go along with choosing that path.


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## ChicagoBlue

harsh said:


> Could you quantify what the Entertainment pack sacrifices to cost less than Choice?


I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.

Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


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## ChicagoBlue

tomski35 said:


> If they're going to increase pricing, they better fix the speed issue with the boxes. The new GUI didn't fix the issue. I'm going to have a hard time convincing the wife it's worth it stay with DTV.


What box do you have? The new UI is wonderful and much faster for our boxes.


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## Barcthespark

ChicagoBlue said:
 

> If your favorite grocery store decided to tell Coke to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?
> 
> If your favorite sporting goods store decided to tell Nike to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?
> 
> There are simple realities here. Every distributor must carry ESPN or become a bit player. That is reality. The distributors know it, ESPN knows it. Thus, ESPN can demand rates that are in the stratosphere because no carrier wants to be without them and watch millions of their customers who don't give a damn about a $3 increase per month leave. That is reality.
> 
> It's easy for any of us to sit behind a keyboard and say DTV or TWC or DISH needs to play hardball and show ESPN or HBO or Fox or FILL IN THE BLANK who is boss. Then there are the realities and the repercussions that go along with choosing that path.


You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting D* tell ESPN to stick it. I was suggesting that individual viewers could tell ESPN to stick it by not subscribing to their channels if they had a la carte.


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## lparsons21

ChicagoBlue said:


> I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.
> 
> Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


That makes sense, and if it were so and ESPN, ESPN2 and Golf were included in the package and still have the other non-sports channels I like, then I may move to that package.


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## Podkayne

Having been with DTV since Sept. 1994, (the old DTV + USSB days) I've seen a lot of price increases and the caterwauling that go with it. Local cable and phone/fiber optic companies are really starting to compete hard for my TV service, and I've just recently started to look at the alternatives.

I have decided that my "Choice Ultimate" would be for me to subscribe to the 15 or so channels that I actually watch and let the other 3,000 go dark. The first provider that offers me the level of flexibility to watch what I want, and pay for only what I watch, will win my business.

Am I just dreaming, or is someone going to develop an entertainment-providing business based on an ala-carte model? The first entrepeneur to develop such a sustainable business will indeed make a fortune. I know just by reading this thread that I am not alone in this line of thinking.


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## n3vino

I mostly watch fooltball and mostly on Sundays if I do. I just realized I can do without ESPN since I don't watch football on Monday nights. In fact, I get all the football I need with the major networks. I don't care for other sports on TV.


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## n3vino

Barcthespark said:


> You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting D* tell ESPN to stick it. I was suggesting that individual viewers could tell ESPN to stick it by not subscribing to their channels if they had a la carte.


I would think that ESPN's deal is that want to be on basic tiers or no deal at all. That's what happened with the NFL network. TW wanted them on their sports package and NFL wanted to be on basic and get a ridiculous premium for what they offered and make all subscribers pay. TW said no, and there was no deal. That, however, caused some Cowboy fans (because of two games), to jump ship to D*. TW stuck to their guns on this one. But they do have ESPN on their basic lineup.


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## SledgeHammer

Davenlr said:


> You have Free HD for life, or Free HD for two years? In either case, a promo doesnt start a contract, only activating a new box does. If it hasnt been two years since you activated your HD box tho, then yea, you are stuck with the rest of us...Watching our money go to FOX


I'm an existing long time customer, so naturally DirecTV treats me worse then a new customer by giving them the lifetime and me the 2yr . Hmm... thinking back, I know I switched to auto-pay to get the 2yrs, and I also started bundling with AT&T to save more $$$. I think there was something where I had to re-up for 2yrs, but maybe I'm high :grin:.


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## SledgeHammer

VelvetUn said:


> I was glancing through old threads, curious to see how much my bill has changed over the years, and I found this. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2023709#post2023709
> 
> 1998 Total choice PLATINUM 47.99
> 1999 Total Choice $29.99
> 2000 Total Choice $31.99
> 2003 Total Choice $33.99
> 2004 Total Choice $36.99
> 2005 Total Choice $41.99
> 2006 Total Choice $44.99
> 2007 Total Choice $47.99
> 2008 Total Choice $50.99
> 2009 Total Choice $53.99
> 2010 Total Choice $57.49
> 2011 Total Choice $60.49
> 2012 Total Choice $64.49
> 
> I've been a customer since 2004, so I have seen a 74% increase in my rate. Not to continue the war over is it fair to increase prices, but that seems probably inline with what D* has incurred from networks.


What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


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## SledgeHammer

markrw58 said:


> As I usually do when there is a price increase coming I look at alternatives and this is the first time that the alternatives will be cheaper for me. If the $10 HD credit goes away it will be a large enough increase that I will reduce or drop dtv or switch to another provider. It sucks, I love dtv and have been with them since 95 but I have reached my limit on what I am willing to pay.


Yeah, companies don't care. They know that not everybody is going to leave, just a small outspoken minority. You can see a clear example of this with Netflix. They doubled prices overnight and everybody screamed and claimed they were going to quit. In the end, they lost 1M out of 12M customers. Whoopee! Sure the stock went from $300 to $70, but really, what is 1M out of 12M? Almost nothing.


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## SledgeHammer

I would definitely LOVE to see ESPN, etc. moved to a separate package since they are the biggest rate increasers. I have ZERO interest in sports and would much rather get channels I watch. I know a la carte doesn't work in general, but its also pretty clear that sports nuts are generally willing to pay anything to watch sports. So let those that want sports foot the bill for it. Most of the other sports channels are already extra anyways.


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## MysteryMan

SledgeHammer said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


Your comparing apples with oranges. The services you mentioned have a fraction of the technological demands DirecTV has. The services you mentioned don't have yearly negotiations with content providers that result is fee raising. They don't have a fleet of satellites to maintain nor the need for R & D for new satellites not to mention storage, transportation, and launch fees for the new satellites. The demand for improvement and upgrading is minuscule to those DirecTV faces. Those upgrades and improvements come with a price.


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## Mike Bertelson

SledgeHammer said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


Don't you have to compare DIRECTV's prices to the rest of the service providers?

It's kind of unfair to compare it to other sectors of the economy?

Mike


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## VelvetUn

SledgeHammer said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


As others have pointed out, your comparison is to commodities that are entirely different than TV service. However, gas prices in 2004 (my reference point for starting service) were $1.85, according to the U.S. Dept. of Energy. The average gas price in the nation today, according to AAA is $3.24. That is a 75% price increase.


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## xov

"SledgeHammer" said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


DirecTV prices have doubled since 2000 (not 2002). That's 100% over 12 years, or an average of 6% per year compounded. That's more than some things but less than others (college tuition and healthcare, for example).

I'm not rich, but for me the hassle of switching providers is not worth the cost.

And it's clear (to me anyway) that an a la carte business model is not currently practical for any of the providers. So we can complain all we want, but the reality is we can stick with DirecTV or go somewhere else. Our choice.


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## SledgeHammer

MysteryMan said:


> Your comparing apples with oranges. The services you mentioned have a fraction of the technological demands DirecTV has. The services you mentioned don't have yearly negotiations with content providers that result is fee raising. They don't have a fleet of satellites to maintain nor the need for R & D for new satellites not to mention storage, transportation, and launch fees for the new satellites. The demand for improvement and upgrading is minuscule to those DirecTV faces. Those upgrades and improvements come with a price.


That's true in some regard, but remember, the majority of the new satellites are to provide LIL support. OK, I'm paying for the Los Angeles locals since that's what I use and that's on the main bird. So is New York.

Should I have to pay for everybody elses locals? Probably not. I don't even have access to them.

I also would bet various body parts that if you took a survey of DTVs 20M customers, the vast majority would have rather kept the SD GUI and kept the monthly bill lower vs. the HD GUI.

I'd also bet another body part that if those 20M customers had the option of "pick either LA or NY locals or your bill will go up $10/month to pay for the new birds" the vast majority would say "hey, LA/NY is good enough". 

Anyways, the point is... I like bells and whistles as much as the next guy, but the majority of the bells and whistles that DTV has added over the past few years, I have ZERO interest in and feel a little annoyed that I have to pay for them.

P.S. my electric company just upgraded to remote readable meters... guess how much that cost me? $0.


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## SledgeHammer

Lol, ok guys, I concede. I am kind of comparing apples to oranges . DISH has gone up as much as DTV.

ISP is certainly not a commodity and thats got technology. My ISP bill has actually gone DOWN while my speed has gone UP.

Seems like my local cable company is about the same price.


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## racermd

SledgeHammer said:


> Anyways, the point is... I like bells and whistles as much as the next guy, but the majority of the bells and whistles that DTV has added over the past few years, I have ZERO interest in and feel a little annoyed that I have to pay for them.
> 
> P.S. my electric company just upgraded to remote readable meters... guess how much that cost me? $0.


You make a good point with the electric meter but, ultimately, you're paying for new features whether you want them or not and whether you get them or not. The cost for D* to do anything ultimately comes out their revenue. Whether they choose to dip into their profits to pay for it (like your electric company apparently did for that fancy new meter), raise rates to offset the cost (so they can keep the profits), or some combination is up to them. Well, ultimately, it's up to the subscriber base (including you and me) to accept the new rates.

Personally, I would like to see D* open things up a bit for customers that want to bring their own equipment like has been done with cable with cableCARD. Charge me per tuner, fine. Just give me the ability to attach those tuners to my own equipment so I can build out my own whole-home DVR solution without funding a bunch of R&D on equipment that will ultimately be less than fully adequate. I get that engineering a good product for the masses means making a bunch of compromises and testing the dickens out of everything. I'll save D* the money of doing those tests and building a bunch of boxes - let me roll my own. I'm a smart guy and can generally support my own stuff.


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## Mike Bertelson

SledgeHammer said:


> Lol, ok guys, I concede. I am kind of comparing apples to oranges . DISH has gone up as much as DTV.
> 
> ISP is certainly not a commodity and thats got technology. My ISP bill has actually gone DOWN while my speed has gone UP.
> 
> Seems like my local cable company is about the same price.


I thought the internet was considered a commodity...but I could be wrong.

Mike


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## SledgeHammer

racermd said:


> Whether they choose to dip into their profits to pay for it (like your electric company apparently did for that fancy new meter), raise rates to offset the cost (so they can keep the profits), or some combination is up to them.


Well... I'm guessing the new meter probably costs them $200 to $300 installed. Maybe even $500. In this case, the motives are obvious. They can get rid of all the meter reader jobs which means no more salaries, trucks, insurance, pensions, training, scheduling, etc. With all the people they can get rid of, they are probably going to break even the first year or sooner.


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## zimm7778

"SledgeHammer" said:


> Well... I'm guessing the new meter probably costs them $200 to $300 installed. Maybe even $500. In this case, the motives are obvious. They can get rid of all the meter reader jobs which means no more salaries, trucks, insurance, pensions, training, scheduling, etc. With all the people they can get rid of, they are probably going to break even the first year or sooner.


Computers=The worlds greatest convenience and worst creation.


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## JoeTheDragon

ChicagoBlue said:


> I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.
> 
> Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


then what is the $2 fee for?? Will you be able to take Entertainment and add RSN's for $2?

on dish At120 does not have RSN's but for $5 more AT120+ does + big ten for people in the big ten area.


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## JoeTheDragon

ChicagoBlue said:


> If your favorite grocery store decided to tell Coke to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?
> 
> If your favorite sporting goods store decided to tell Nike to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?
> 
> There are simple realities here. Every distributor must carry ESPN or become a bit player. That is reality. The distributors know it, ESPN knows it. Thus, ESPN can demand rates that are in the stratosphere because no carrier wants to be without them and watch millions of their customers who don't give a damn about a $3 increase per month leave. That is reality.
> 
> It's easy for any of us to sit behind a keyboard and say DTV or TWC or DISH needs to play hardball and show ESPN or HBO or Fox or FILL IN THE BLANK who is boss. Then there are the realities and the repercussions that go along with choosing that path.


The grocery store does not force all people to buy coke to get other stuff.


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## JoeTheDragon

racermd said:


> You make a good point with the electric meter but, ultimately, you're paying for new features whether you want them or not and whether you get them or not. The cost for D* to do anything ultimately comes out their revenue. Whether they choose to dip into their profits to pay for it (like your electric company apparently did for that fancy new meter), raise rates to offset the cost (so they can keep the profits), or some combination is up to them. Well, ultimately, it's up to the subscriber base (including you and me) to accept the new rates.
> 
> Personally, I would like to see D* open things up a bit for customers that want to bring their own equipment like has been done with cable with cableCARD. Charge me per tuner, fine. Just give me the ability to attach those tuners to my own equipment so I can build out my own whole-home DVR solution without funding a bunch of R&D on equipment that will ultimately be less than fully adequate. I get that engineering a good product for the masses means making a bunch of compromises and testing the dickens out of everything. I'll save D* the money of doing those tests and building a bunch of boxes - let me roll my own. I'm a smart guy and can generally support my own stuff.


or at least get rid of the 2 year lock in to add boxes like how most of the cable co's do it.


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## renbutler

I don't like paying an extra $6 a month, but I love the self-righteousness of all the anti-"greed" posters here who pretend they wouldn't try to maximize profits if they owned a high-demand product.


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## James Long

Mike Bertelson said:


> Don't you have to compare DIRECTV's prices to the rest of the service providers?


If the service is entertainment it seems fair. Comparing DBS to utilities such as electric, water, gas and phone service is a stretch - especially with the regulation on such utilities.

It would be a stretch, but there are a lot of service industries such as food service which could be inappropriately compared. After a while you end up with something big, like the consumer price index, that one could compare DirecTV's price increases to. But there are industries that are above and below that average.

At first blush cable/DBS seems to be above average in price increases ... but there is a lot more service being provided now than 10 years ago. If one could roll back the price to match the average consumer price increase would one accept the channel list and features that were available 10 years ago at the 10 year plus inflation price? Probably not. People WANT the improvements to the service. Improvements cost money.


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## Davenlr

ChicagoBlue said:


> There are customers without locals in their base package, I am one of them.
> 
> DTV wanted to compete with cable and DISH so they added local channels. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Yes, it would save you a few dollars if they never went down the locals path, but they also would be stuck around 10Million customers if not less and that would mean a lot of other things, including the possibility that DTV doesn't even exist.


I didnt say get rid of them, I said give us the choice to OPT OUT of them, like we do with the Sports pak, HD Extra Pack, etc. Make it a choice to add on or not.


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## zimm7778

"James Long" said:


> If the service is entertainment it seems fair. Comparing DBS to utilities such as electric, water, gas and phone service is a stretch - especially with the regulation on such utilities.
> 
> It would be a stretch, but there are a lot of service industries such as food service which could be inappropriately compared. After a while you end up with something big, like the consumer price index, that one could compare DirecTV's price increases to. But there are industries that are above and below that average.
> 
> At first blush cable/DBS seems to be above average in price increases ... but there is a lot more service being provided now than 10 years ago. If one could roll back the price to match the average consumer price increase would one accept the channel list and features that were available 10 years ago at the 10 year plus inflation price? Probably not. People WANT the improvements to the service. Improvements cost money.


Actually if I could get the same channels I got in 03 for roughy the same price, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


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## Shades228

zimm7778 said:


> Actually if I could get the same channels I got in 03 for roughy the same price, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


That would mean no HD I'll pass.


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## SledgeHammer

renbutler said:


> I don't like paying an extra $6 a month, but I love the self-righteousness of all the anti-"greed" posters here who pretend they wouldn't try to maximize profits if they owned a high-demand product.


I'm not against price increases, and if I owned a business, I would certainly try to pawn off all rising business expenses to the customer, but I would also realize that I'm alienating customers at a certain point. There are 2 or 3 other options, but they are all priced the same, so whats the point of switching back and forth? just to get some short lived promo? Seems like a hassle.

I'm kinda thinking that DTV could put its foot down on ESPN and win, but they are too scared to piss off the sports nuts if a black out occured.

All a lot of posters are saying is take out the most expensive channels (sports) and put them in a seperate package so the rest of us don't have to pay for them.

My cable company dropped its cable modem fee by $10/month 3 or 4 yrs ago, so...


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## thekochs

To me this is going to have the opposite effect of what DirecTV wants....more of my money.. I left cable years ago because my bill went up each month with what I call the "kill me slowly plan". It finally got to a point that was ridiculous and DirecTV offered a better and stable alternative. Over the past year+ DirecTV can provide all the excuses they want but my bills have gone up and up....approaching $100 a month now. I only have three receivers and not one of the high end packages and no HBO/Cinemax/etc. For the $100/month my family probably watches dozen or so channels....but paying for all the "packages" we don't use.

Thus, what this new hike will mean for me is to look at the DTV lower cost packages in order to reduce my bill. I also just went from AT&T for Internet/Phone to Comcast where I 10X speed and pay $45/month versus $100....their Double Play XFinity. I'm locked into DirecTV for another 6+ months but at that point I will look to see the two-years Comcast will offer to add Video.....my guess is big savings.

Bottom line.....I'm a long DirecTV fan but they forcing my hand to look to how to move away from their offerings....sadly.


----------



## harsh

zimm7778 said:


> Computers=The worlds greatest convenience and worst creation.


Computers are great. It is what we have to go through to use them that stinks on ice.


----------



## DawgLink

renbutler said:


> I don't like paying an extra $6 a month, but I love the self-righteousness of all the anti-"greed" posters here who pretend they wouldn't try to maximize profits if they owned a high-demand product.


I do run my business and I don't raise prices as often as DirecTV or others (and I recognize I don't have the same business as DirecTV)...even though I probably could without mass customers leaving.

The bottom line is not the end-all to every business. Notice I just said "end-all" as of course it is VERY important for a variety of reasons (bills, future needs, etc...).

But no, not everyone who owns a business runs the business strictly to get as much profits as possible saying "who cares about the customers...I want as much money as possible"


----------



## wingrider01

SledgeHammer said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


/rofl my eletric bil went up 18.00 dollars in one price increase or about 10 years of directv's increases and the last one wsa just 14 months ago that was 8.00 a month


----------



## renbutler

DawgLink said:


> I do run my business and I don't raise prices as often as DirecTV or others (and I recognize I don't have the same business as DirecTV)...even though I probably could without mass customers leaving.
> 
> The bottom line is not the end-all to every business. Notice I just said "end-all" as of course it is VERY important for a variety of reasons (bills, future needs, etc...).
> 
> But no, not everyone who owns a business runs the business strictly to get as much profits as possible saying "who cares about the customers...I want as much money as possible"


Whoa, whoa, whoa...

I never said anything about not caring about the customers. Obviously, a successful business model involves taking care of the people who give you money.

The point is that increasing prices is not a problem until enough people decide it's too much. Certainly some _will _make that decision, but only DirecTV knows how many is "enough."

As long as they provide a service that enough people choose to purchase at the price offered, there's nothing greedy or inappropriate about it.

(PS: Also, if you had shareholders, you might be a little more aggressive with your pursuit of profits.)


----------



## mattnboise

bobvick1983 said:


> ESPN should be broken out of all the packages and made a premium service just like HBO is.


+1 It absolutely should be done and that is why it will not happen.


----------



## James Long

zimm7778 said:


> Actually if I could get the same channels I got in 03 for roughy the same price, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


That isn't the offer. '03 channels for '03 price plus inflation (or overall consumer price index) would be the offer. Hopefully something has been added in the past 9 years that would make the extra increase at least partially worthwhile.



Davenlr said:


> I didnt say get rid of them, I said give us the choice to OPT OUT of them, like we do with the Sports pak, HD Extra Pack, etc. Make it a choice to add on or not.


Opt out all you like as long as you still pay for them. I suppose DirecTV could make people feel better by allowing some to save $3 a month for not getting their locals. The rest of the cost of delivering locals would still be paid for by the customers not receiving them. With stations charging per viewer DirecTV might even make money in some markets (if the carriage fees for that market total more than $3).

The way I see it, I'm paying for locals whether I watch them or not. The token $3 doesn't cover the cost of delivery. Since I'm paying for locals anyways I might as well be able to watch them. The same goes for HD. The cost to deliver a HD signal to your TV is built in to the entire bill. Yes, there is a token fee but the ability to get free HD further demonstrates that the costs are covered elsewhere on the bill. A bill that has gone up over the years as new channels and technology has been introduced to the service provided.


----------



## Shades228

DawgLink said:


> I do run my business and I don't raise prices as often as DirecTV or others (and I recognize I don't have the same business as DirecTV)...even though I probably could without mass customers leaving.
> 
> The bottom line is not the end-all to every business. Notice I just said "end-all" as of course it is VERY important for a variety of reasons (bills, future needs, etc...).
> 
> But no, not everyone who owns a business runs the business strictly to get as much profits as possible saying "who cares about the customers...I want as much money as possible"


Become a publicly traded company and I guess we can see what the end all becomes.

I understand your intent but comparing your average small company to any company that is publicly traded and as large as DIRECTV isn't a real comparison.


----------



## zimm7778

"James Long" said:


> That isn't the offer. '03 channels for '03 price plus inflation (or overall consumer price index) would be the offer. Hopefully something has been added in the past 9 years that would make the extra increase at least partially worthwhile.
> 
> Opt out all you like as long as you still pay for them. I suppose DirecTV could make people feel better by allowing some to save $3 a month for not getting their locals. The rest of the cost of delivering locals would still be paid for by the customers not receiving them. With stations charging per viewer DirecTV might even make money in some markets (if the carriage fees for that market total more than $3).
> 
> The way I see it, I'm paying for locals whether I watch them or not. The token $3 doesn't cover the cost of delivery. Since I'm paying for locals anyways I might as well be able to watch them. The same goes for HD. The cost to deliver a HD signal to your TV is built in to the entire bill. Yes, there is a token fee but the ability to get free HD further demonstrates that the costs are covered elsewhere on the bill. A bill that has gone up over the years as new channels and technology has been introduced to the service provided.


I dont believe there's a single channel they've added since the inception of the NFL Network that I've watched, and if I have i don't care whether it's there or not. So, again I'll gladly pay the current rate for 03 channels pending it wouldn't come up to something like a $2 savings.


----------



## SledgeHammer

wingrider01 said:


> /rofl my eletric bil went up 18.00 dollars in one price increase or about 10 years of directv's increases and the last one wsa just 14 months ago that was 8.00 a month


Is this a joke? You do realize that they charge you per kw/hr usage right?


----------



## rayik

Last year the continual price increases made us think about whether DTV was worth it to us. While we could easily afford DTV, it just became not worth it to us and we cut the cord. When we did that, we had no complaints about DTV and actually loved the service.

One year later and we are very happy with our cord cutting decision. TV went from about $81 / month to $16 / month (netflix and hulu plus monthly subscriptions). We watch basically everything we did with DTV. For the few new shows my wife just can't wait to watch, we buy a season pass on Amazon for about $30. (This is much less than 1 months subscrption to DTV.)

For sports, the NFL is on OTA (and we live in an OTA rich area). Our MLB team has 30% of the games OTA. Our local hockey and basketball teams are Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia - which DTV never had - and thus we learned not to miss them. We still don't miss them.

It's not for eveyone. But content providers should keep folks like us in mind when they make their pricing plans.


----------



## Gloria_Chavez

negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.....

---------------------
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203479104577124494272500550.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

* DECEMBER 29, 2011

Customers Say to Cable Firms, 'Let's Make a Deal'

By LAUREN A. E. SCHUKER

Want cheaper cable television? Try asking for it.

Every three to six months, when his most recent promotional deal expires, Carey Anthony blocks out an hour of his day to negotiate with his cable company. Each time, the president of a software company in Los Angeles says he can knock $20 to $30 off his monthly bill.

Lauren Schuker on The News Hub has some tips on how to trim your cable bill, such as asking your service provider for unadvertised deals. Photo: AP

"Negotiating works every time," says Mr. Anthony, 46, who estimates he has saved more than $350 a year over the past decade. "Sometimes you have to threaten to cancel service, or switch to another provider, or sit on hold for an hour, but I've never failed to get a discount," he says. "You just have to be diligent."
....

To stanch the bleeding, some cable companies have begun to quietly offer stripped-down plans to retain viewers. They frequently go unadvertised in many regions and customers might have to hunt for them on providers' websites to find out exactly what to ask for.

---------------------


----------



## Jon J

I'm sure DirecTV could have made the new packages and pricing more convoluted and difficult to understand...but it would have taken some work.


----------



## mreposter

Jon J said:


> I'm sure DirecTV could have made the new packages and pricing more convoluted and difficult to understand...but it would have taken some work.


Part of the challenge is that we don't know what the channel lineups are for several of these bundles. It's odd that they'd announce pricing now, but not the channel list. Are they still negotiating behind the scenes???


----------



## Shades228

Has anyone seen an official communication yet or just the training information that was copied and pasted in the first post?


----------



## Alan Gordon

Shades228 said:


> Has anyone seen an official communication yet or just the training information that was copied and pasted in the first post?


Only one that I know of...



Drew2k said:


> Today via email I received the official notification from DIRECTV of the February 2012 rate changes. Here's their PDF:
> 
> http://f.cm.directv.com/i/39/2087941240/2012PNP0112IPINGMJ792GMENG.pdf


~Alan


----------



## F1 Fan

Shades228 said:


> Has anyone seen an official communication yet or just the training information that was copied and pasted in the first post?


I had the email from them about 2 or 3 days ago


----------



## tomski35

ChicagoBlue said:


> What box do you have? The new UI is wonderful and much faster for our boxes.


HR20-700
HR21-700 (2)
HR24-500

The 24 is bearable, the 20 and 21s are unwatchable if you want to surf or doubleplay.


----------



## Christopher Gould

"SledgeHammer" said:


> Is this a joke? You do realize that they charge you per kw/hr usage right?


I believe you said utilities don't go up. Ameren Illinois asks the utility board every 6 months to a year for rate increases. They don't always get them but they do ask.


----------



## harsh

Shades228 said:


> Has anyone seen an official communication yet or just the training information that was copied and pasted in the first post?


Here's a link to the support page where it speaks to next year's rates:

http://support.directv.com/app/answ...sion/L3RpbWUvMTMyNTIwMjM2NC9zaWQvVXo0TVlRTWs=

Note that it has both residential and business rate links on the page.


----------



## Billzebub

F1 Fan said:


> I had the email from them about 2 or 3 days ago


+1


----------



## F1 Fan

This is the email I received on Dec 26th

Dear DIRECTV® Customer,

At DIRECTV, we pride ourselves on delivering the very best technological innovations, programming choices and service offerings. In the last year, we have enhanced your overall television entertainment experience in a number of exceptional ways:

• #1 in Customer Satisfaction among all cable and satellite providers*
• An unparalleled variety of the best shows, sports, movies and entertainment 
• More than 170 full-time HD channels, the most of any television provider 
• Access to HBO GO® and MAX GO® anywhere with your computer or mobile device
• A smarter, lighting fast HD On-Screen Guide, optimized for HD television
• The most full-time 3D channels
• Coming Soon...Watch TV on your PC and mobile device with DIRECTV Everywhere

Above all else, we strive to bring you the best selection of movies, sporting events and television channels. Annually, the owners of these TV channels increase the fees they charge to DIRECTV for the right to broadcast their content. As a result, DIRECTV must periodically adjust the pricing and channel lineups of some of our programming packages so that we can keep these channels in your package.

This year, the programming costs we pay to owners of TV channels will increase about 10%, but we have chosen to adjust the prices our customers pay by an average of only 4%. On February 9, 2012, new pricing will be applied to DIRECTV® programming packages and services. Click here for more complete details.

We look forward to continuing to provide you with the highest quality entertainment, service and value. Thank you for your business.

Sincerely,

Ellen Filipiak
Senior Vice President of Customer Service


----------



## harsh

fiosguy said:


> ADD the below channels and I would not mind paying DirecTV's rates.
> <...>
> ---MILITARY HISTORY CHANNEL


DIRECTV already carries this channel.

Looking at the list, it would appear that there was little discrimination involved; it appears to be a "what can I think of that's missing" list as opposed to a wish list.


----------



## spartanstew

I also received the Email a few days ago.


----------



## bobvick1983

"harsh" said:


> DIRECTV already carries this channel.
> 
> Looking at the list, it would appear that there was little discrimination involved; it appears to be a "what can I think of that's missing" list as opposed to a wish list.


Directv does not carry Military History, it is an A&E Network. You are thinking of The Military Channel owned by Discovery.


----------



## harsh

bobvick1983 said:


> You are thinking of The Military Channel owned by Discovery.


Indeed I was.

My point remains: how many "military" channels does one need?

The two conventional History channels already play more than enough war content.


----------



## n3vino

F1 Fan said:


> This is the email I received on Dec 26th
> 
> Dear DIRECTV® Customer,
> 
> At DIRECTV, we pride ourselves on delivering the very best technological innovations, programming choices and service offerings. In the last year, we have enhanced your overall television entertainment experience in a number of exceptional ways:
> 
> • More than 170 full-time HD channels, the most of any television provider


But many of them are PPV, Download, Premium and a bunch of basic channels I don't watch. Not impressed with that number. I'd rather have more basic HD channels that I do watch. Free basic commerical free non HD movie channels do not impress me. Movie channels with commericals SD or HD do not impress me either. If not for D*'s promotion price, I would have stayed with TW. TW has gotten too expensive.

D*'s big plus for me is the whole home DVR. Big minus not enough basic HD channels I do watch.

TW's big plus for me is more basic HD channels I watch. Big minus more expensive than D* such as boxes and multiple DVR service.
.


----------



## F1 Fan

n3vino said:


> But many of them are PPV, Download, Premium and a bunch of basic channels I don't watch. Not impressed with that number. I'd rather have more basic HD channels that I do watch. Free basic non HD movie channels do not impress me. If not for D*'s promotion price, I would have stayed with TW. TW has gotten too expensive.
> 
> D*'s big plus for me is the whole home DVR. Big minus not enough basic HD channels I do watch.
> 
> TW's big plus for me is more basic HD channels I watch. Big minus more expensive than D* such as boxes and multiple DVR service.
> .


When the new bird goes up there will be more, and I also guess when negotiations come up on contracts there will be more.

I think the costs vs program tradeoff will always be there.

To me, Directvs biggest plus is the non-receiver direction they have been going in. Directv2PC, Nomad, iPad, RVU etc. I love having the ability to watch tv anywhere on anything. I realize some will be limited to the home network, but slingbox and VPN can get around those limitations. My wife loves the idea of no receiver as it means no power cord (she hates wires!) and no box in the open - and the coax replaced by cat6. If the others dont catch up soon they will lost more market share, especially to the younger generation.

I watch a lot on my Xoom and Bionic, especially from Netflix. And use my Directv2PC in the back yard a lot too.


----------



## bobvick1983

"harsh" said:


> Indeed I was.
> 
> My point remains: how many "military" channels does one need?
> 
> The two conventional History channels already play more than enough war content.


I agree, I am sure it is not much more than the same repeats from History and H2. Probably the reason they don't waste space on the network.


----------



## ffemtreed

record profits each and every quarter must mean they need price increases....... The greed will be the end of the company one day! 

I know as soon as I can get a fast internet connection at my house so I can get NHL and NFL over the net I will be gone! They keep increasing the cost but hardly any new relevant channels that i watch. Just not worth it to me anymore and all of these price increases just further drive me away.


----------



## fiosguy

F1 Fan said:


> This is the email I received on Dec 26th
> 
> Dear DIRECTV® Customer,
> 
> At DIRECTV, we pride ourselves on delivering the very best technological innovations, programming choices and service offerings. In the last year, we have enhanced your overall television entertainment experience in a number of exceptional ways:
> 
> • #1 in Customer Satisfaction among all cable and satellite providers*
> • An unparalleled variety of the best shows, sports, movies and entertainment
> • More than 170 full-time HD channels, the most of any television provider
> • Access to HBO GO® and MAX GO® anywhere with your computer or mobile device
> • A smarter, lighting fast HD On-Screen Guide, optimized for HD television
> • The most full-time 3D channels
> • Coming Soon...Watch TV on your PC and mobile device with DIRECTV Everywhere
> 
> Above all else, we strive to bring you the best selection of movies, sporting events and television channels. Annually, the owners of these TV channels increase the fees they charge to DIRECTV for the right to broadcast their content. As a result, DIRECTV must periodically adjust the pricing and channel lineups of some of our programming packages so that we can keep these channels in your package.
> 
> This year, the programming costs we pay to owners of TV channels will increase about 10%, but we have chosen to adjust the prices our customers pay by an average of only 4%. On February 9, 2012, new pricing will be applied to DIRECTV® programming packages and services. for more complete details.
> 
> We look forward to continuing to provide you with the highest quality entertainment, service and value. Thank you for your business.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ellen Filipiak
> Senior Vice President of Customer Service


DIRECTV needs to stop having every customer pay for to go stuff, ipad stuff, cell phone stuff and etc UNLESS THEY USE IT............

then the channel rates would be fairer


----------



## fiosguy

harsh said:


> Indeed I was.
> 
> My point remains: how many "military" channels does one need?
> 
> The two conventional History channels already play more than enough war content.


IF that was a valid argument - only need 1 of each "genre channel" then we would have only 1 sports channel and only 1 womens network and so on... BUT each channel while in the same gnre handle and show different aspects of that genre and so both are needed to be carried....

same way FOOD NETWORK AND THE COOKING CHANNEL both cover food BUT the cover it from different avenues


----------



## fiosguy

ffemtreed said:


> record profits each and every quarter must mean they need price increases....... The greed will be the end of the company one day!
> 
> I know as soon as I can get a fast internet connection at my house so I can get NHL and NFL over the net I will be gone! They keep increasing the cost but hardly any new relevant channels that i watch. Just not worth it to me anymore and all of these price increases just further drive me away.


+ infinity


----------



## fiosguy

harsh said:


> DIRECTV already carries this channel.
> 
> Looking at the list, it would appear that there was little discrimination involved; it appears to be a "what can I think of that's missing" list as opposed to a wish list.


LOOK BELOW AT THE FACTS

http://military.history.com is BY HISTORY AND IS NOT CARRIED BY DIRECTV

http://military.discovery.com/ IS THE CHANNEL DIRECTV CARIES BY DISCOVERY NETWORKS

THEY ARE 2 DIFFERENT CHANNELS


----------



## fiosguy

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2929316#post2929316

has the list DIRECTV does not carry and should so they could justify the high prices they charge now.

ALSO stop making people (who have no need / no interest / no desire) pay for feautres - IPAD STUFF - CELLPHONE - TO GO AND ETC

spread the cost only to the users who use them not the entire subscription base - in other words - stop illegally forcing the people who do not use the service to partially pay for it.


----------



## dpeters11

In that case, I'd want to drop my fees for access to SD channels.


----------



## fiosguy

dpeters11 said:


> In that case, I'd want to drop my fees for access to SD channels.


In this day and age all HD channels that have the same lineup as their SD lineups, we should drop all the SD channels that are duplicate - make people upgrade to to HD so that could downrez the channels to sd tvs for people who dont have hd tvs yet....

all the initial cost in boxces and etc would be saved by every segment of the tv industry by less transmission fees and less equipment to main both channels


----------



## dpeters11

And SD is useful to some, even with HD. It may still work during a rainfade event, and if you record a program that airs in SD, it's better to record off the SD feed. That's becoming less of an issue though.

But no, I certainly wouldn't want a fee to use the iPad app, a fee to use the iPhone app, a fee to use DirecTV2PC, TVApps etc etc. the MRV fee is enough.


----------



## bigtom

"fiosguy" said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2929316#post2929316
> 
> has the list DIRECTV does not carry and should so they could justify the high prices they charge now.
> 
> ALSO stop making people (who have no need / no interest / no desire) pay for feautres - IPAD STUFF - CELLPHONE - TO GO AND ETC
> 
> spread the cost only to the users who use them not the entire subscription base - in other words - stop illegally forcing the people who do not use the service to partially for it.


Investing money into the research and development of features to attract and retain subscribers benefit you as well. This increases revenue that can be spent to agree on a contract with History Networks to carry yet another military channel, or better still, more HD channels!


----------



## A_Bear

This is what D* says

'We must reserve the right to adjust our prices as necessary. more information can be found in our customer agreement or online at www.directv.com/agreements'


----------



## n3vino

fiosguy said:


> IF that was a valid argument - only need 1 of each "genre channel" then we would have only 1 sports channel and only 1 womens network and so on... BUT each channel while in the same gnre handle and show different aspects of that genre and so both are needed to be carried....
> 
> same way FOOD NETWORK AND THE COOKING CHANNEL both cover food BUT the cover it from different avenues


 A good example of HD wasted on what I consider bull corn channels that I never watch but have to pay for.


----------



## n3vino

dpeters11 said:


> And SD is useful to some, even with HD. It may still work during a rainfade event, and if you record a program that airs in SD, it's better to record off the SD feed. That's becoming less of an issue though.
> 
> But no, I certainly wouldn't want a fee to use the iPad app, a fee to use the iPhone app, a fee to use DirecTV2PC, TVApps etc etc. the MRV fee is enough.


I agree with you. In addition, I spent a lot on my big screen HD and audio system. Why would I want to watch tv on a little screen? I can understand using a laptop to watch DVD's or connect to the internet when one travels, but watching D* programming on a little screen?


----------



## renbutler

ffemtreed said:


> record profits each and every quarter must mean they need price increases....... The greed will be the end of the company one day!
> 
> I know as soon as I can get a fast internet connection at my house so I can get NHL and NFL over the net I will be gone! They keep increasing the cost but hardly any new relevant channels that i watch. Just not worth it to me anymore and all of these price increases just further drive me away.


Nah, record profits means that they're doing something _right_. You see, people _voluntarily_ give them money in return for their products. They don't shake people down. They don't practice extortion. They provide a luxury service that is in high demand. At what point does success become greed? Give me a number.

I mean, gosh, even you admit that there's no better option for you today. So you keep giving them money. Then you complain that too many people are giving them too much money.

It's all very strange to me.


----------



## jzoomer

Satelliteracer said:


> Additional TV is simply a name change. The world is changing and in the future not everyone is going to need a receiver to have DIRECTV programming on other televisions. Nevertheless, that programming still needs to be mirrored on those devices through a server or other means.


It does fit their pricing model such as having customers buy their receivers and then charge them a lease fee.

The argument for mirroring with multiple DTV receivers was that there was "maintenance/bandwidth" issues with additional receivers. Now that the other receiver is not a DTV piece of hardware, this fee makes no sense.

I am surprise that no one has come up with an app to allow people to go through the maze of pricing. On the other hand, there are multiple prices for the same service depending on how much time you spend talking to a CSR.

Reminds me of the old style airlines (AA, Delta, TWA, Continental, Pan AM, etc.) with multiple seat prices, luggage, change fees. Too bad there isn't a Southwest Airlines of the media distribution companies to kick some butts.


----------



## MattScahum

jzoomer said:


> It does fit their pricing model such as having customers buy their receivers and then charge them a lease fee.
> 
> The argument for mirroring with multiple DTV receivers was that there was "maintenance/bandwidth" issues with additional receivers. Now that the other receiver is not a DTV piece of hardware, this fee makes no sense.
> 
> I am surprise that no one has come up with an app to allow people to go through the maze of pricing. On the other hand, there are multiple prices for the same service depending on how much time you spend talking to a CSR.
> 
> Reminds me of the old style airlines (AA, Delta, TWA, Continental, Pan AM, etc.) with multiple seat prices, luggage, change fees. Too bad there isn't a Southwest Airlines of the media distribution companies to kick some butts.


There isn't multiple prices for the same service. There is the regular pricing and then there are discounts that depending on what you already subscribe to on your account and your account history that you may qualify for. I'm not counting new customer pricing in that because that is obviously exclusive to them.
As for the additional tv/leased receiver fee it is exactly as it says. It is for independent digital programming on an additional television just like every other tv provider charges. You can certainly mirror other tvs off of it and avoid that charge but obviously you lose some functionality that an additional reciever provides.


----------



## jzoomer

MattScahum said:


> There isn't multiple prices for the same service. There is the regular pricing and then there are discounts that depending on what you already subscribe to on your account and your account history that you may qualify for. I'm not counting new customer pricing in that because that is obviously exclusive to them.


Exactly.

Full fare and discount fares. Sometimes travel is free due to customer loyalty programs.


----------



## flipptyfloppity

Okay, so there's no difference in premium package (movie packages) pricing. But what are the prices for movie packages? The first is $15.99, but they allude to each additional package costing less than the one before. What is the pricing?

Additionally, what package is Golf network in? It's not in any base package except premier, and it isn't listed in the sports pack. I presume it's actually in the $12.99 sports pack despite not being listed?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out what my bill would be if I dropped some of my movie packs, and the info to indicate this doesn't seem to be easily available on DirecTV's site.


----------



## bobnielsen

flipptyfloppity said:


> Additionally, what package is Golf network in? It's not in any base package except premier, and it isn't listed in the sports pack. I presume it's actually in the $12.99 sports pack despite not being listed?


Golf Network is included in the current Choice Xtra and above base packages.


----------



## n3vino

flipptyfloppity said:


> Basically, I'm trying to figure out what my bill would be if I dropped some of my movie packs, and the info to indicate this doesn't seem to be easily available on DirecTV's site.


When my promo pricing is over, I will pay approx $100.00. It looks like I'll have the Choice Extra Classic, HD service, one HR24, two H25's, whole home DVR, and the protection plan. No premiums and no additional channels.

That's a lot of money with a lot of bull corn channels in HD and SD, and less HD channels that I watch than TW, that I'm paying for. Why did I switch? TW got to expensive and I wanted to take advantage of the MVR and one year's promo price. After my contract is up, I will probably go Over the Air and Netflix.

In this town, we have a bunch of HD locals and that's not counting the local spanish stations that I rarely watch. TW had most locals in HD. I won't have DVR, but I've only had DVR for three months. I've done without it all my life. It's nice to have but not all luxuries in life can be justified. At some point I have to say no.


----------



## wingrider01

SledgeHammer said:


> Is this a joke? You do realize that they charge you per kw/hr usage right?


Why yes, yes I do BUT the price per kw/hr rates have gone up to equate out to a 18.00 a month increase in my electric bill, the electric company is now putting another *RATE INCREASE* in front of the PSC to recoup costs. That makes a total of 4 *rate increases* in less then 12 months.

Seems that the term rate increase holds true for utility companies also, they raise the cost of the kw/hr charge just like directv raises the cost of programming, sure seems to qualify as NOT being a joke but a valid comparision.


----------



## Satelliteracer

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/27/business/la-fi-lazarus-20111227

Article about price increases at Time Warner, some going up more than 50%


----------



## Sixto

It will be interesting to see if Apple has an impact some day:http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-5...hake-up-tv-a-la-carte-channels/?tag=txt;title​


----------



## mreposter

and Amazon, Google/YouTube, Hulu, Netflix... they're all trying to work out new ways to deliver video entertainment. It's just going to take a long time to break the current bundled cable/satellite model.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Question is will cable internet providers allow 3rd party streaming of cable networks?


----------



## Herdfan

Since it has been many years since I did something to restart my commitment, IIRC it used to be that those under a commitment kept the price structure in place when the commitment was started.

Is this still the case or I am misremembering?


----------



## renbutler

Isn't this the first time Total Choice's price has risen above the Choice price?

Does anybody know DEFINITIVELY which channels I would lose/gain by dropping from Total Choice to Choice? (I know I would be saving only 50 cents a month, but I would also regain the ability to add or subtract packages online without having to call a CSR.)


----------



## A_Bear

flipptyfloppity said:


> Okay, so there's no difference in premium package (movie packages) pricing. But what are the prices for movie packages? The first is $15.99, but they allude to each additional package costing less than the one before. What is the pricing?
> 
> Additionally, what package is Golf network in? It's not in any base package except premier, and it isn't listed in the sports pack. I presume it's actually in the $12.99 sports pack despite not being listed?
> 
> Basically, I'm trying to figure out what my bill would be if I dropped some of my movie packs, and the info to indicate this doesn't seem to be easily available on DirecTV's site.


HBO is the only one that is $15.99, all of the others (STARZ Super Pack, Sports Pack, Cinemax, and Showtime) are all $12.99 respectively

here is the combo prices as follows

without HBO 
1st = $12.99 
2nd = $11.01 
3rd = $10 
4th = $8

with HBO 
1st = $15.99 (being HBO)
2nd = $11.01 
3rd = $10 
4th = $8 
5th = $7


----------



## A_Bear

renbutler said:


> Isn't this the first time Total Choice's price has risen above the Choice price?
> 
> Does anybody know DEFINITIVELY which channels I would lose/gain by dropping from Total Choice to Choice? (I know I would be saving only 50 cents a month, but I would also regain the ability to add or subtract packages online without having to call a CSR.)


with choice package you gain

610 Big Ten Network
HD simulcast 
306 HDNet
HD Access required.

313 Jewelry Television Network 
447 ONCE (ESP)
Public Interest Channel. Multi-sat equipment required. 119 satellite. 
284 Science Channel, The
HD simulcast 
855 Great Standards
Multi-sat equipment required. (m) 
853 Metro Blend
Multi-sat equipment required. (m) 
807 Rat Pack
Multi-sat equipment required. (m) 
878 Rock en Espanol 
281 Velocity
HD Access required.

and you lose

257 Chiller 
308 Cloo 
618 FUEL TV
HD simulcast 
218 Golf Channel, The (m) (SAP)
HD simulcast 
283 Nat Geo WILD 
276 National Geographic Channel
HD simulcast 
251 Oxygen 
869 Bailamos! 
867 Be-Tween 
877 Carnaval Brasileiro
Multi-sat equipment required. 
831 College Rock 
839 Flashback/New Wave 
813 Folk Rock 
828 Hallelujah 
825 Hot Jamz (Hip Hop) 
876 Mariachi
Multi-sat equipment required. 
844 Old School Funk 
823 Showtunes 
841 Spike (Explicit) 
868 The Playground 
607 Speed
HD simulcast 
603 Versus
HD simulcast 
307 WGN America
HD simulcast

I dont think it is worth it, you would lose cloo network (I love to watch HOUSE)


----------



## renbutler

A_Bear said:


> with choice package you gain
> 
> 610 Big Ten Network
> HD simulcast
> 306 HDNet
> HD Access required.
> 
> 313 Jewelry Television Network
> 447 ONCE (ESP)
> Public Interest Channel. Multi-sat equipment required. 119 satellite.
> 284 Science Channel, The
> HD simulcast
> 855 Great Standards
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 853 Metro Blend
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 807 Rat Pack
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 878 Rock en Espanol
> 281 Velocity
> HD Access required.
> 
> and you lose
> 
> 257 Chiller
> 308 Cloo
> 618 FUEL TV
> HD simulcast
> 218 Golf Channel, The (m) (SAP)
> HD simulcast
> 283 Nat Geo WILD
> 276 National Geographic Channel
> HD simulcast
> 251 Oxygen
> 869 Bailamos!
> 867 Be-Tween
> 877 Carnaval Brasileiro
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 831 College Rock
> 839 Flashback/New Wave
> 813 Folk Rock
> 828 Hallelujah
> 825 Hot Jamz (Hip Hop)
> 876 Mariachi
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 844 Old School Funk
> 823 Showtunes
> 841 Spike (Explicit)
> 868 The Playground
> 607 Speed
> HD simulcast
> 603 Versus
> HD simulcast
> 307 WGN America
> HD simulcast
> 
> I dont think it is worth it, you would lose cloo network (I love to watch HOUSE)


I have Total Choice (with HD), and I know for sure that it includes channels from both your lists: BTN, HDNet, Science, WGN, NGC, Speed, and Versus. So I'm not sure I understand your lists.


----------



## Satelliteracer

A_Bear said:


> with choice package you gain
> 
> 610 Big Ten Network
> HD simulcast
> 306 HDNet
> HD Access required.
> 
> 313 Jewelry Television Network
> 447 ONCE (ESP)
> Public Interest Channel. Multi-sat equipment required. 119 satellite.
> 284 Science Channel, The
> HD simulcast
> 855 Great Standards
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 853 Metro Blend
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 807 Rat Pack
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 878 Rock en Espanol
> 281 Velocity
> HD Access required.
> 
> and you lose
> 
> 257 Chiller
> 308 Cloo
> 618 FUEL TV
> HD simulcast
> 218 Golf Channel, The (m) (SAP)
> HD simulcast
> 283 Nat Geo WILD
> 276 National Geographic Channel
> HD simulcast
> 251 Oxygen
> 869 Bailamos!
> 867 Be-Tween
> 877 Carnaval Brasileiro
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 831 College Rock
> 839 Flashback/New Wave
> 813 Folk Rock
> 828 Hallelujah
> 825 Hot Jamz (Hip Hop)
> 876 Mariachi
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 844 Old School Funk
> 823 Showtunes
> 841 Spike (Explicit)
> 868 The Playground
> 607 Speed
> HD simulcast
> 603 Versus
> HD simulcast
> 307 WGN America
> HD simulcast
> 
> I dont think it is worth it, you would lose cloo network (I love to watch HOUSE)


The list is in error. Time to get AAC fixed.


----------



## Satelliteracer

fiosguy said:


> In this day and age all HD channels that have the same lineup as their SD lineups, we should drop all the SD channels that are duplicate - make people upgrade to to HD so that could downrez the channels to sd tvs for people who dont have hd tvs yet....
> 
> all the initial cost in boxces and etc would be saved by every segment of the tv industry by less transmission fees and less equipment to main both channels


This day and age? More than half the country still has SD televisions. Most televisions still out there are SD. For every house that has 3 televisions, 1.3 of them are HD and 1.7 are still SD. The more televisions in the house, the ratio gets worse (meaning even more SD televisions).

The country isn't ready to do this yet and certain not at the cost that would require it, both by the consumer and by the companies delivering the signals. You're still a few years out, maybe longer. A TON of SD televisions out there in the real world.


----------



## Satelliteracer

jzoomer said:


> It does fit their pricing model such as having customers buy their receivers and then charge them a lease fee.
> 
> The argument for mirroring with multiple DTV receivers was that there was "maintenance/bandwidth" issues with additional receivers. Now that the other receiver is not a DTV piece of hardware, this fee makes no sense.


That is not the only reason those fees exist. Secondly, the % of people that buy their receivers is extremely low.


----------



## SaLance

Satelliteracer said:


> The list is in error. Time to get AAC fixed.


You should know its not AAC since that is copyrighted :lol:


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Satelliteracer said:


> That is not the only reason those fees exist. Secondly, the % of people that buy their receivers is extremely low.


the phone company used to force to rent each phone in your house and now you buy them.

No in Candida systems you have the choice of rent or buy and shaw has rent to own. and with owned boxes no outlet or mirroring fees.


----------



## A_Bear

renbutler said:


> I have Total Choice (with HD), and I know for sure that it includes channels from both your lists: BTN, HDNet, Science, WGN, NGC, Speed, and Versus. So I'm not sure I understand your lists.


I'm sorry, the information I (we) have is apparently outdated....I will look into this for you


----------



## A_Bear

SaLance said:


> You should know its not AAC since that is copyrighted :lol:


very true  agent answer center ha ha


----------



## TheRatPatrol

"Satelliteracer" said:


> You're still a few years out, maybe longer.


2014 when D14 and D15 launch?


----------



## markrogo

JoeTheDragon said:


> The grocery store does not force all people to buy coke to get other stuff.


My local supermarket, in fact, does make me spend $25 on groceries to get a reasonable price on Coke, however. Technically, you can buy Coke without the other stuff, but the price is insane. So long as you spend $25 elsewhere, Coke reverts to a reasonable price....


----------



## markrogo

SledgeHammer said:


> What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.
> 
> As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


Inflation alone would've taken Total Choice from $29.99 in 1999 to about $40 today (using various online calculators which take compounded CPI. Everything over $40 is explained by some combination of (a) increased costs for DirecTV (b) increased operating profits for DirecTV.


----------



## Shades228

markrogo said:


> Inflation alone would've taken Total Choice from $29.99 in 1999 to about $40 today (using various online calculators which take compounded CPI. Everything over $40 is explained by some combination of (a) increased costs for DirecTV (b) increased operating profits for DirecTV.


The channel lineup in 99 was also smaller than it is today.


----------



## Herdfan

"Shades228" said:


> The channel lineup in 99 was also smaller than it is today.


Yeah but the shopping channels pay to be carried. :lol:


----------



## Devo1237

"A_Bear" said:


> with choice package you gain
> 
> 610 Big Ten Network
> HD simulcast
> 306 HDNet
> HD Access required.
> 
> 313 Jewelry Television Network
> 447 ONCE (ESP)
> Public Interest Channel. Multi-sat equipment required. 119 satellite.
> 284 Science Channel, The
> HD simulcast
> 855 Great Standards
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 853 Metro Blend
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 807 Rat Pack
> Multi-sat equipment required. (m)
> 878 Rock en Espanol
> 281 Velocity
> HD Access required.
> 
> and you lose
> 
> 257 Chiller
> 308 Cloo
> 618 FUEL TV
> HD simulcast
> 218 Golf Channel, The (m) (SAP)
> HD simulcast
> 283 Nat Geo WILD
> 276 National Geographic Channel
> HD simulcast
> 251 Oxygen
> 869 Bailamos!
> 867 Be-Tween
> 877 Carnaval Brasileiro
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 831 College Rock
> 839 Flashback/New Wave
> 813 Folk Rock
> 828 Hallelujah
> 825 Hot Jamz (Hip Hop)
> 876 Mariachi
> Multi-sat equipment required.
> 844 Old School Funk
> 823 Showtunes
> 841 Spike (Explicit)
> 868 The Playground
> 607 Speed
> HD simulcast
> 603 Versus
> HD simulcast
> 307 WGN America
> HD simulcast
> 
> I dont think it is worth it, you would lose cloo network (I love to watch HOUSE)


Yeah, I've had Total Choice since 2002 and I've always had BTN and HDNet and those since they were offered. The only channel i've ever lost was ESPN Classic when they swapped it out for ESPNU. That's why it's always been such a great deal (comparatively).


----------



## tuff bob

Anyone know, if I add a receiver now and I'm out of contract, does that lock my price for 2 years, and I won't be affected by the increase? Might effectively give me a sizable discount on a new HD-DVR


----------



## Davenlr

tuff bob said:


> Anyone know, if I add a receiver now and I'm out of contract, does that lock my price for 2 years, and I won't be affected by the increase? Might effectively give me a sizable discount on a new HD-DVR


No. It just locks you into a 2 yr contract. During the contract, you can move around to different packages at will, but you dont lock in anything. That is only for new customers.


----------



## ThomasM

ChicagoBlue said:


> I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.
> 
> Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


If DirecTV offered a so-called "entertainment" package with all the channels included in choice extra (or whatever it changes to) minus sports channels, I'd switch instantly. I NEVER watch ANY sports channel (I hate sports) and I know a lot of friends with DirecTV who also never watch sports either.

Sports fanatics will pay anything to support their "addiction" so they will gladly pay through the nose for ESPN, regional sports nets, etc.- with a smile on their face no less!!


----------



## Davenlr

ThomasM said:


> If DirecTV offered a so-called "entertainment" package with all the channels included in choice extra (or whatever it changes to) minus sports channels, I'd switch instantly.


I am pretty much the opposite. I had SELECT, and it had every channel I watch regularly, except for two, Golf and Speed. So, for those two channels, instead of paying $44.95 a month, I have to pay $65.99 a month. DirecTv knows what they are doing. They will always make sure there are at least two must have channels available only in the expensive packages.

Personally I wish they would have a "News" package, "Science" package, "Sports" package, "General entertainment" package, and "Non-Premium Movie" package. I wouldnt hesitate to sub to the News, Science, and Sports package, but have no interest in the entertainment channels or commercial laden movie channels.

It wont happen though, because #1, the channels themselves force the carriers into placing them everyones package so they can get revenue from 10 million rather than just those that are interested, and #2, Directv wont do it because in most cases, they would lose money, as people dropped channel groups, although if done right, that wouldnt need to be the case.

I dont see much changing until subscribers start dropping in droves from DirecTv, Dish, and cable...forcing the programmers to do something to retain customers.


----------



## Satelliteracer

TheRatPatrol said:


> 2014 when D14 and D15 launch?


The industry believes SD will be alive and well beyond that.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

"Satelliteracer" said:


> The industry believes SD will be alive and well beyond that.


Gosh we hope not. LOL


----------



## JcT21

ThomasM said:


> If DirecTV offered a so-called "entertainment" package with all the channels included in choice extra (or whatever it changes to) minus sports channels, I'd switch instantly. I NEVER watch ANY sports channel (I hate sports) and I know a lot of friends with DirecTV who also never watch sports either.
> 
> Sports fanatics will pay anything to support their "addiction" so they will gladly pay through the nose for ESPN, regional sports nets, etc.- with a smile on their face no less!!


i was going to type something about this "entertainment package" but you said it for me. i completely agree with you. i do hope they offer a package like that. if they did i would switch in a heartbeat.


----------



## jzoomer

I cancelled another programming option to bring my bill down under $100 again.

My goal is about $100/month for my Directv bill. When I started with Directv, my bill included all the premium channels and a sports package. Now I am down to a basic package and many fees.

Next year I may have to cancel the basic package to cover the fees.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Satelliteracer said:


> The industry believes SD will be alive and well beyond that.


I can see some channels staying SD but moving to mpeg4 or at least cable and sat moving to mepg 4 sd.

How long does directv plan to keep the out boxes out there??


----------



## Alan Gordon

Shades228 said:


> The channel lineup in 99 was also smaller than it is today.


(not count HD simulcast, HD Extra, locals, or DNS additions,) I count about 4-5 channels added since then that I care about. I would say there were more, but most of those channels were just re-brandings.

I have Total Choice Xtra. Not counting the local channels, the DNS channels, or the HD Extra package, there are 29 channels that I receive that I TRULY care about. I think that's why most people get upset... I honestly don't care about the majority of channels that I get, but unfortunately, I have to subscribe to a higher priced package in order to get the channels I do want.... not to mention fees to be able to watch it in multiple rooms, fees to record it, etc.

I'm not one to champion a la carte, because I don't believe it would work in reality, but it would be nice if one were to actually be able to have at least some say in customizing one's package... whether it be a set number of channels for a set amount, or decent theme packages...

I'm not complaining about the increases mind you, I've come to expect them, and continue hoping I can keep up with them for as long as possible. I'm just ranting...

~Alan


----------



## A_Bear

JoeTheDragon said:


> I can see some channels staying SD but moving to mpeg4 or at least cable and sat moving to mepg 4 sd.
> 
> How long does directv plan to keep the out boxes out there??


As long as there is a demand, it will be supplied.

Ex. Rv customers that have auto-aligning dishes usually have an sd dish... Also the (no offence to anyone) elderly customers we have use sd alot aswell that I have noticed


----------



## A_Bear

Alan Gordon said:


> (not count HD simulcast, HD Extra, locals, or DNS additions,) I count about 4-5 channels added since then that I care about. I would say there were more, but most of those channels were just re-brandings.
> 
> I have Total Choice Xtra. Not counting the local channels, the DNS channels, or the HD Extra package, there are 29 channels that I receive that I TRULY care about. I think that's why most people get upset... I honestly don't care about the majority of channels that I get, but unfortunately, I have to subscribe to a higher priced package in order to get the channels I do want.... not to mention fees to be able to watch it in multiple rooms, fees to record it, etc.
> 
> I'm not one to champion a la carte, because I don't believe it would work in reality, but it would be nice if one were to actually be able to have at least some say in customizing one's package... whether it be a set number of channels for a set amount, or decent theme packages...
> 
> I'm not complaining about the increases mind you, I've come to expect them, and continue hoping I can keep up with them for as long as possible. I'm just ranting...
> 
> ~Alan


I do agree my good sir.

Glad I get it all for free


----------



## MysteryMan

Satelliteracer said:


> The industry believes SD will be alive and well beyond that.


I can believe that. Whenever I travel by car I notice there are far more SD dishes mounted on homes then HD dishes.


----------



## Billzebub

Alan Gordon said:


> (not count HD simulcast, HD Extra, locals, or DNS additions,) I count about 4-5 channels added since then that I care about. I would say there were more, but most of those channels were just re-brandings.
> 
> I have Total Choice Xtra. Not counting the local channels, the DNS channels, or the HD Extra package, there are 29 channels that I receive that I TRULY care about. I think that's why most people get upset... I honestly don't care about the majority of channels that I get, but unfortunately, I have to subscribe to a higher priced package in order to get the channels I do want.... not to mention fees to be able to watch it in multiple rooms, fees to record it, etc.
> 
> I'm not one to champion a la carte, because I don't believe it would work in reality, but it would be nice if one were to actually be able to have at least some say in customizing one's package... whether it be a set number of channels for a set amount, or decent theme packages...
> 
> I'm not complaining about the increases mind you, I've come to expect them, and continue hoping I can keep up with them for as long as possible. I'm just ranting...
> 
> ~Alan


I think I disagree a little bit. To me, the best thing about all these channels isn't that I watch them all allof the time, but the little gems I find that make me smile. I never watched Ovation until Slings and Arrows was on, now I'd like it in HD. I never even knew what Link TV was until Borgen started. Now I'm looking at some of their other programing. I don't watch religious or shopping channels, but I think they pay to be carried so they're not costing me anything.

Maybe it's because I'm old and remember the days of 4 channels in our home as a kid, but I just like to have the choices, even if I don't normally use them.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Satelliteracer said:


> The industry believes SD will be alive and well beyond that.


From what I've been reading one third of households are still SD only (multiple sources from Google). Not to mention the number of households that have both. Most people I know still have an SDTV.

It'll be years before we can get rid of SD.

Mike


----------



## F1 Fan

Alan Gordon said:


> (not count HD simulcast, HD Extra, locals, or DNS additions,) I count about 4-5 channels added since then that I care about. I would say there were more, but most of those channels were just re-brandings.
> 
> I have Total Choice Xtra. Not counting the local channels, the DNS channels, or the HD Extra package, there are 29 channels that I receive that I TRULY care about. I think that's why most people get upset... I honestly don't care about the majority of channels that I get, but unfortunately, I have to subscribe to a higher priced package in order to get the channels I do want.... not to mention fees to be able to watch it in multiple rooms, fees to record it, etc.
> 
> I'm not one to champion a la carte, because I don't believe it would work in reality, but it would be nice if one were to actually be able to have at least some say in customizing one's package... whether it be a set number of channels for a set amount, or decent theme packages...
> 
> I'm not complaining about the increases mind you, I've come to expect them, and continue hoping I can keep up with them for as long as possible. I'm just ranting...
> 
> ~Alan


I am with you - which is why at one point we gave up TV altogether - could not see the point of paying for things we hardly watched - even out of the 29 or so channels there was only maybe one or 2 programs a week worth watching and we could live without them (and did for 9 months or so).

When I first moved to the US (about 2004) a friend of mine had local cable tv and a package. He wanted Speed which wasnt in his package. But he called them and they add the channel for $5 a month.

I like that option. I would like to add a channel or two for that price and drop my package to a lower one. Adding too many means I would just be better getting the next package up. I think Directv could revisit this as I would suspect they would probably make overall.


----------



## Davenlr

F1 Fan said:


> I like that option. I would like to add a channel or two for that price and drop my package to a lower one. Adding too many means I would just be better getting the next package up. I think Directv could revisit this as I would suspect they would probably make overall.


I have always been a fan of the "package + 2" option. At $5 a piece, for channels probably costing DirecTv < 50 cents, I dont see where it would be a loss on their part either. Since the expensive channels (ESPN) are already mandated to be included in all packages except the loss leader (Family), it would be a good move on DirecTv's part, and the loss of revenue from those channels in the higher packs would cause those channels to rethink their worth.


----------



## RACJ2

Satelliteracer said:


> http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/27/business/la-fi-lazarus-20111227
> 
> Article about price increases at Time Warner, some going up more than 50%


Now you're starting to sound as dramatic as some of us when we post things.  The only thing increasing 50% is installation costs, which are negotiable. Although their programming costs do appear to be jumping more then DIRECTV's average of 4% that was mentioned.



> Some rates will be significantly higher, such as a 27.4% increase to $17 from $13.34 just to receive local broadcast channels.Others will be modestly higher, such as a 9.5% increase to $69 from $63 for broadcast plus basic cable channels, or a 7.3% increase to $58.99 from $54.99 for the digital video package...
> 
> ...Some of the biggest jumps in Time Warner's rates will be seen on the installation front. The cost of wiring your home for video, Internet or phone service will soar 51.5% to $49.99 from $32.99. Installing Time Warner's Wi-Fi service will jump 40% to $69.99 from $49.99.
> 
> Time Warner's Gordon said that these are just the "rack rates" and that most customers will pay less for installation after cutting a deal for their programming package.


----------



## WebTraveler

I am confused by the pricing.

I have the legacy HD-DVR package, which is going to $86.99 a month. It's basically the choice xtra package. I am getting a $10 HD credit at the moment. This nets to $76.99

Choice Xtra is going away it appears as of February, leaving Choice and Choice ultimate.

Choice Ultimate is $74.99 and Choice is $73.99; do these packages include HD? I can't tell anymore. I don't see the $10 HD charge listed. If so, would I be better off with Choice Ultimate?

Or trying to change to Choice Xtra before the package goes away?

What happens to my HD credit when the 24 months are up?

Am I basically paying more to be on a legacy package?


----------



## James Long

RACJ2 said:


> Now you're starting to sound as dramatic as some of us when we post things.  The only thing increasing 50% is installation costs, which are negotiable. Although their programming costs do appear to be jumping more then DIRECTV's average of 4% that was mentioned.


Agreed. The tone of the article seemed to be against Time Warner.

When the "rack rate" install increased was explained by TW as being driven by higher employee costs the article muses "_Apparently Time Warner technicians are a lot better paid and are receiving significantly better medical benefits than they were a year ago._" Health care costs ARE shooting up. The same medical benefits for 2012 as were offered in 2011 are much more expensive. And while that rate went up, it went up to under $50. I paid Comcrap $99 for Internet install in 2003 (and had to return the modem when I cancelled).

TW's increase seems to be the standard "cheap packages go up a higher percentage than expensive packages" approach. A couple of dollars on the cheapest package is going to appear to be a big jump. Just like when DirecTV raises a small fee by $1 --- doing the math to create a huge percentage increase isn't fair.

Also from the article was the story of a single subscriber who subscribes to a lot of stuff: "_Brian Bentley, 48, of Hollywood has been a Time Warner customer for more than a decade. He gets basic cable service plus HBO, some sports channels, a digital video recorder and a couple of boxes for his two TVs._" Mr Bently is expecting a 25% increase, $100 to $125. However, just to make TW sound worse he breaks it down by the hour. He claims he only watches 20 hours per month. Why he would pay $100 (soon $125) for 20 hours is his own fault! But it allows the author to push the $6.25 per hour subscription rate and make TW sound bad.

Of course most of the article's readers are probably happy to see TW slammed - whether or not it is fair. It is just another example of a big business putting the screws to the little guy and that plays well in the media. DirecTV's increase could be portrayed the same way - find the highest line item percentages and tell the most emotional charged stories possible to portray the company as bad.

And so it goes ... journalism today.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

"MysteryMan" said:


> I can believe that. Whenever I travel by car I notice there are far more SD dishes mounted on homes then HD dishes.





"Mike Bertelson" said:


> From what I've been reading one third of households are still SD only (multiple sources from Google). Not to mention the number of households that have both. Most people I know still have an SDTV.
> 
> It'll be years before we can get rid of SD.
> 
> Mike


No no no no down with SD! 

I still see SD dishes too, but lately I've been seeing more and more HD ones as well. I wonder how many of those SD dishes are hooked up to HDTV's?

I hope for the money D* is paying for these channels that the HD feeds are part of the new contracts.


----------



## A_Bear

WebTraveler said:


> I am confused by the pricing.
> 
> I have the legacy HD-DVR package, which is going to $86.99 a month. It's basically the choice xtra package. I am getting a $10 HD credit at the moment. This nets to $76.99
> 
> Choice Xtra is going away it appears as of February, leaving Choice and Choice ultimate.
> 
> Choice Ultimate is $74.99 and Choice is $73.99; do these packages include HD? I can't tell anymore. I don't see the $10 HD charge listed. If so, would I be better off with Choice Ultimate?
> 
> Or trying to change to Choice Xtra before the package goes away?
> 
> What happens to my HD credit when the 24 months are up?
> 
> Am I basically paying more to be on a legacy package?


Just to help explain

the prices you have listed are wrong

choice xtra will be $68.99 and choice ultimate will be $74.99

you have the hddvr package that is expired, the package includes the 
dvr service (currectly $7 a months, and it will be $8 soon)
hd access ($10 a month)

without your current package you will see those charges appear on your bill in addition to the package you choose
ex. choice ultimate $74.99, hd access $10, and dvr access $7 
were as you currently have just the base package hddvr that combines all of that

also, the choice xtra package will not go away, in face there will be 2 of them as follows

choice xtra classic (for the customers that have choice xtra prior to feb. 9th)
choice xtra (to customers that choos that package after feb. 9th)

also after 24 months are up you would then have to either

a.) not get a discount on you base package of hddvr
b.) call in and get renewed
c.) if you have another package as listed above then the $10 hd access fee would just not be credited any longer


----------



## Alan Gordon

Billzebub said:


> I think I disagree a little bit. To me, the best thing about all these channels isn't that I watch them all allof the time, but the little gems I find that make me smile. I never watched Ovation until Slings and Arrows was on, now I'd like it in HD. I never even knew what Link TV was until Borgen started. Now I'm looking at some of their other programing. I don't watch religious or shopping channels, but I think they pay to be carried so they're not costing me anything.


I used to feel that way as well, but that was when money wasn't as tight, and my DirecTV bill wasn't so large. It's getting harder to justify the cost of having access to channels I rarely, if ever, watch.

If I made a lot of money, it probably wouldn't bother me, but in many ways, I make less money than I did 10 years ago, and yet DirecTV continues (like others) to take up bigger percentages of what I do make.

Hence why my feelings have changed on the matter...



Billzebub said:


> Maybe it's because I'm old and remember the days of 4 channels in our home as a kid, but I just like to have the choices, even if I don't normally use them.


Until my teenage years, we only had five channels... and that was only when the weather was just right. What we did receive was rarely very clear...

~Alan


----------



## A_Bear

Alan Gordon said:


> Until my teenage years, we only had five channels... and that was only when the weather was just right. What we did receive was rarely very clear...
> 
> ~Alan


That must be an old picture of you haha :lol:

jk my good sir


----------



## Alan Gordon

A_Bear said:


> That mus be an old picture of you haha :lol:
> 
> jk my good sir


Cable doesn't offer service here, and BUD's were always too expensive, so we dealt with antennas until 1995 when DirecTV became available.

~Alan


----------



## MysteryMan

TheRatPatrol said:


> No no no no down with SD!
> 
> I still see SD dishes too, but lately I've been seeing more and more HD ones as well. I wonder how many of those SD dishes are hooked up to HDTV's?
> 
> I hope for the money D* is paying for these channels that the HD feeds are part of the new contracts.


I'm not sure if it's sad, comical, or both but there's a significant amount of people out there who don't completely understand HD technology and are under the impression that merely owning a HDTV is sufficient and think they are experiencing HD.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

MysteryMan said:


> I'm not sure if it's sad, comical, or both but there's a significant amount of people out there who don't completely understand HD technology and are under the impression that merely owning a HDTV is sufficient and think they are experiencing HD.


I know two guys as work who bought HDTVs but decided to wait on HD service. However, when they attached the coax they found they had all the basic HD channels. They get the basic tier channels and are watching HDTV.

They have since upgraded to get all their usually channels in HD but I bet there are plenty of people out there who are getting HD...some of whom may not even realize it. They're looking at the picture and saying something like "this looks good enough so I'll wait to upgrade"... :grin:

Mike


----------



## n3vino

Billzebub said:


> Maybe it's because I'm old and remember the days of 4 channels in our home as a kid, but I just like to have the choices, even if I don't normally use them.


When I was a kid, we didn't have any local channels. Those that had TV's pulled them from southern cities over 100 miles away, or from a north city 100 miles away. Reception was good until 10:00 in the morning. Then there would be a lot of interference with the picture.

Then a city nearby got a tv station. That's when my dad bought our first tv, a 21 inch black and white. Then little by little, two more stations came on the air, so we had three.

What D* does is give me more channels to flip through. Like you, there are some that I might watch one of these days, but there others that I won't watch which I programmed out of my custom list, but still pay for.


----------



## dpeters11

I know some people thought digital meant HD, and that it was part of the digital OTA conversion.

Others just don't care. My father has HD service, but my mother is the only one that really uses it. He mostly watches MASH and Bonanza on an SD set in his den. He doesn't even know how to use the DVR, and doesn't care to.


----------



## drx792

MysteryMan said:


> I can believe that. Whenever I travel by car I notice there are far more SD dishes mounted on homes then HD dishes.


Drive around Orlando, I barely ever see SD Round dishes here. There are rows of slimlines though.


----------



## n3vino

Mike Bertelson said:


> They have since upgraded to get all their usually channels in HD but I bet there are plenty of people out there who are getting HD...some of whom may not even realize it. They're looking at the picture and saying something like "this looks good enough so I'll wait to upgrade"... :grin:
> 
> Mike


When I first got my HD tv, I got it more for the purpose of watching DVD's which came in widescreen. When my wife got me a DVD player one Xmas, I got two DVD's with it and they were widescreen. Watching them on a 35 inch analog tv, sucked. The player didn't zoom.

I had cable and I upgraded to SD, but I didn't upgrade to HD for a pretty long while. I won't tell you what my thinking was at that time, because now that I look back, it was stupid. And I thought that the SD picture was o.k.

Then I got laid off my job so in order to cut costs, I decided to downgrade to a package which didn't have any premium channels, but had HD. Best move I ever made. Now I hate to watch SD channels.

So there are different reasons why people don't upgrade to HD, mostly cost. With cable, you have to subscribe to their digital package, which costs an arm and a leg, and also pay a monthly fee for a box. With D*, existing SD customers would most likely have to pay to upgrade their boxes and pay an HD fee on top of that.


----------



## mreposter

Mike Bertelson said:


> I know two guys as work who bought HDTVs but decided to wait on HD service. However, when they attached the coax they found they had all the basic HD channels. They get the basic tier channels and are watching HDTV.
> 
> They have since upgraded to get all their usually channels in HD but I bet there are plenty of people out there who are getting HD...some of whom may not even realize it. They're looking at the picture and saying something like "this looks good enough so I'll wait to upgrade"... :grin:
> 
> Mike


Most cable systems also fail to combine SD and HD channels. For instance, on most Time Warner systems CNN SD is channel 350 and CNN HD is 1350 and on UVerse CNN SD is 202 and the HD version is on 1202. People have to learn to switch over to the HD channels and figure out which channels are in HD and which aren't.

Directv is the rare provider that puts enough intellegence in the box to do the work for the viewer and make it easier to use the guide.


----------



## dpeters11

Very true. One of the things a friend of mine hates about DirecTV.


----------



## James Long

mreposter said:


> Directv is the rare provider that puts enough intellegence in the box to do the work for the viewer and make it easier to use the guide.


DirecTV isn't the only provider who mixes their HD in with their SD channels (HD in the guide on SD channel numbers, when available) ... so change that statement to "one of the rare providers" if you wish to be correct.


----------



## Satelliteracer

MysteryMan said:


> I can believe that. Whenever I travel by car I notice there are far more SD dishes mounted on homes then HD dishes.


I'd take it a step further. Think about all the customers that have a HD dish but still have at least 1, 2, 3, 4 SD televisions in the home. A TON of customers have an HD dish and ONE HD television, but the remaining televisions are SD and they are fine with that.

SD will be around for quite some time. Years.


----------



## Nighthawk68

Satelliteracer said:


> I'd take it a step further. Think about all the customers that have a HD dish but still have at least 1, 2, 3, 4 SD televisions in the home. A TON of customers have an HD dish and ONE HD television, but the remaining televisions are SD and they are fine with that.
> 
> SD will be around for quite some time. Years.


And how many people have the SD televisions in the kids room, this channel is perfect for this setup.


----------



## mva5580

I came here considering signing back up for DTV again but after reading all of this stuff......screw it. All I watch on TV is sports and stuff that I have access to on Hulu and OTA. I was considering going back to DTV because I've been a bit frustrated with OTA antenna giving me some issues and ESPN3.com not always having a great HD signal but all of that stuff for free is still worth dealing with for me than having to pay all these asinine fees, deal with different program structures, etc. What a total joke. Talk about companies that just 100% have their customers by the balls.


----------



## jamieh1

Atleast now days with digital over the air tv you do have a little more choice for free tv. So if things get to bad Ill have some free tv.

Most stations now offer sub channels. When I was growing up, there were 3 channels.
CBS NBC and ABC.
Now in my area which is DMA #99 we have the following channel over the air.

2.1 UNC HD(PBS)
2.2 UNC KD (KIDS)
2.3 UNC EX (EXPLORER CHANNEL)

7.1 WITN NBC HD
7.2 MY NETWORK TV- ME TV
7.3 RADAR

8.1 WFXI FOX HD
8.2 WFXI BOUNCE TV

9.1 WNCT CBS HD
9.2 THE CW

12.1 WCTI ABC HD
12.2 LIVE WELL NETWORK
12.3 THIS TV

14.1 WYDO FOX HD
14.2 WYDO BOUNCE TV

19.1 UNC HD
19.2 UNC EXPLORER CHANNEL
19.3 UNC KIDS

25.1 UNC HD 
25.2 UNC KIDS
25.3 UNC EXPLORER CHANNEL

38.1 WEPX ION HD
38.2 WEPX QUBO
38.3 WEPX ION LIFE


----------



## dpeters11

"mva5580" said:


> I came here considering signing back up for DTV again but after reading all of this stuff......screw it. All I watch on TV is sports and stuff that I have access to on Hulu and OTA. I was considering going back to DTV because I've been a bit frustrated with OTA antenna giving me some issues and ESPN3.com not always having a great HD signal but all of that stuff for free is still worth dealing with for me than having to pay all these asinine fees, deal with different program structures, etc. What a total joke. Talk about companies that just 100% have their customers by the balls.


It would be worse if they only had one package plan. As for fees, they certainly aren't the worst.


----------



## TBlazer07

"drx792" said:


> Drive around Orlando, I barely ever see SD Round dishes here. There are rows of slimlines though.


Slimline dishes don't necessarily equate to hd installations. Any install, even all sd gear will likely get a slimline dish. I doubt they would install round dishes anymore even if you got an all sd equipment install.


----------



## Shades228

TBlazer07 said:


> Slimline dishes don't necessarily equate to hd installations. Any install, even all sd gear will likely get a slimline dish. I doubt they would install round dishes anymore even if you got an all sd equipment install.


Negative if you don't get HD you don't get a slimline dish.


----------



## Satelliteracer

TBlazer07 said:


> Slimline dishes don't necessarily equate to hd installations. Any install, even all sd gear will likely get a slimline dish. I doubt they would install round dishes anymore even if you got an all sd equipment install.


Still install round dishes. The cost difference between an 18" round and a slimline is considerable.


----------



## TBlazer07

Shades228 said:


> Negative if you don't get HD you don't get a slimline dish.





Satelliteracer said:


> Still install round dishes. The cost difference between an 18" round and a slimline is considerable.


I find that really surprising. Even if the round is cheaper compare that to the cost of going back a 2nd time for a lot of these installs for upgrades. The cost of each single return call for an upgrade (parts & labor) would have to make up for quite a number of the cost differences between SD and HD if the slimline were the "standard." I can't imaging there being THAT much of a difference between cost of the 2 dishes considering the large quantity that are being purchased by the install company. Maybe once they use up existing inventories they'll just go SL.


----------



## carl6

TBlazer07 said:


> I find that really surprising. Even if the round is cheaper compare that to the cost of going back a 2nd time for a lot of these installs for upgrades.


No expectation of going back a second time.


TBlazer07 said:


> The cost of each single return call for an upgrade (parts & labor) would have to make up for quite a number of the cost differences between SD and HD if the slimline were the "standard."


That suggests there are still a LOT of SD installs. If it is only a $1 differential, a million such installs is still a million dollars.

What it tells me is that there are no plans at this point in time to stop mpeg2 and SD distribution. Why spend extra money on an SD install when it can easily last for a decade or more? It also tells me there are still a lot of SD installs where you only need 101.


----------



## WebTraveler

Thanks, yes I goofed on posting one of the prices. Key to all of this is HOW the $10 HD rebate will continue to be after Summer 2012.

Also key for me is where the Pac 12 network ends up at in the packages.....I cannot imagine Directv won't carry.....the sports leader will fall overnight.....



A_Bear said:


> Just to help explain
> 
> the prices you have listed are wrong
> 
> choice xtra will be $68.99 and choice ultimate will be $74.99
> 
> you have the hddvr package that is expired, the package includes the
> dvr service (currectly $7 a months, and it will be $8 soon)
> hd access ($10 a month)
> 
> without your current package you will see those charges appear on your bill in addition to the package you choose
> ex. choice ultimate $74.99, hd access $10, and dvr access $7
> were as you currently have just the base package hddvr that combines all of that
> 
> also, the choice xtra package will not go away, in face there will be 2 of them as follows
> 
> choice xtra classic (for the customers that have choice xtra prior to feb. 9th)
> choice xtra (to customers that choos that package after feb. 9th)
> 
> also after 24 months are up you would then have to either
> 
> a.) not get a discount on you base package of hddvr
> b.) call in and get renewed
> c.) if you have another package as listed above then the $10 hd access fee would just not be credited any longer


----------



## Alan Gordon

drx792 said:


> Drive around Orlando, I barely ever see SD Round dishes here. There are rows of slimlines though.


On the other hand, drive around here, and of the DirecTV dishes you see (Dish Network pretty much rules the area), very few of them are SlimLines... and we're an MPEG4 market!

I do see more SlimLines now than there were this time last year, but still not as many as you'd think you'd see given that they are needed for locals.

~Alan


----------



## thomasr1950

I've called DTV, emailed you name it, threatened to cancel, NO LUCK. They won't budge on their pkg. prices. My discounts have ended, now all they will give me is $5 a month for 3 months. I even gave them a referall, no they didn't give my acct. #, so i don't get a referall credit. They say we're giving you $10 HD free. Yes, due to the fact my CC is getting billed each month. So they are getting their money each month. Anone had any luck getting discounts? I even emailed the Advocate Dept., same story.


----------



## Davenlr

thomasr1950 said:


> I've called DTV, emailed you name it, threatened to cancel, NO LUCK. They won't budge on their pkg. prices.


What exactly are you wanting? They never discount package prices as far as I know, except for new customers for the first year.

What package do you have? You can always drop down to Choice and maintain your free HD.


----------



## spartanstew

Dude, it's OK to try and call for a discount, but if they don't give it to you, just accept it and move on (by staying or going). No need to threaten to cancel (unless you plan on doing so), send Emails, etc.

And they gave you $5 per month for 3 months didn't they? Get on with your life.


----------



## thomasr1950

They told me to call back when the discounts expire, i did. They said i was not eligible. So i said i was mis-led, or lied to. They said yes. The cost is getting too damn high, i did what i was told by them to do. Who wouldn't be PO'd?


----------



## James Long

thomasr1950 said:


> They told me to call back when the discounts expire, i did. They said i was not eligible. So i said i was mis-led, or lied to. They said yes. The cost is getting too damn high, i did what i was told by them to do. Who wouldn't be PO'd?


Who wouldn't be PO'd? Someone who understood the contract they signed. Sign up discounts do not last forever.

The CSR told you the truth ... "I can't help you today, call back when your discounts expire and we'll see what we can do". No promise that you would get a discount, just telling you when your next opportunity would be.

Do something that deserves a discount: sign up for more services or buy something that extends your commitment. Otherwise ask yourself why you deserve a discount. Just for being a customer? How about the other 18 million customers? $10-$20 off each bill adds up real quick.


----------



## spartanstew

thomasr1950 said:


> They told me to call back when the discounts expire, i did. They said i was not eligible. So i said i was mis-led, or lied to. They said yes. The cost is getting too damn high, i did what i was told by them to do. Who wouldn't be PO'd?


I thought you said they were going to give you $5 off for 3 months? Isn't that a discount? How is that not eligible? How were you misled? How were you lied to? When they offered that, why didn't you just say "thank you"? Why did you proceed to then send Emails (and complain)?


----------



## OverThereTooMuch

ffemtreed said:


> I know as soon as I can get a fast internet connection at my house so I can get NHL and NFL over the net I will be gone!


 Are there any legitimate ways to get access to NFL games via the internet? I see they have a Game Pass option, but it's not available in the US or Mexico. Looks like the best they offer in the US is live audio, or Game Rewind allowing you to watch the games at some point after they're finished.


----------



## ThomasM

TheRatPatrol said:


> No no no no down with SD!
> 
> I still see SD dishes too, but lately I've been seeing more and more HD ones as well. I wonder how many of those SD dishes are hooked up to HDTV's?


That's a good question. I know of one R22-200 hooked up to an HDTV via HDMI that is fed by an SD dish but it is owned by a subscriber who has no intention of being stuck with DirecTV for another 2 years and paying full price for their programming (and WAY higher in 2 years!) just to get a clunker reconditioned HD DVR!! I wonder who it is?  (Hint: see tagline)


----------



## Shades228

ThomasM said:


> That's a good question. I know of one R22-200 hooked up to an HDTV via HDMI that is fed by an SD dish but it is owned by a subscriber who has no intention of being stuck with DirecTV for another 2 years and paying full price for their programming (and WAY higher in 2 years!) just to get a clunker reconditioned HD DVR!! I wonder who it is?  (Hint: see tagline)


You post more reasons for not getting HD that it's almost a drinking game now.

If you've been with them for 11 years and refuse to get HD because you might get the same box as your R22 then order from a retailer and get a new model of your choice. Ever heard of the expression cutting off your nose to spite your face? Most people get the HD Access waived for 24 months with ABP(which was your original complaint about cost) and most existing customers get a deal if they've been around as long as you said you have been.


----------



## ThomasM

drx792 said:


> Drive around Orlando, I barely ever see SD Round dishes here. There are rows of slimlines though.


SD dishes aren't permitted in Orlando. HD TV service, a membership in a country club, and at least 10 pairs of white shoes are required of every resident... :lol:


----------



## ThomasM

WebTraveler said:


> Thanks, yes I goofed on posting one of the prices. Key to all of this is HOW the $10 HD rebate will continue to be after Summer 2012.


The only reason DirecTV offered to waive the $10 HD fee for existing customers was because they feared a massive defection to DISH network. Even then, DirecTV agreed to a "2 year waiver of the HD fee", not "life". Meanwhile, numerous "billing errors" restored the HD fee until existing subscribers complained AGAIN. Many existing customers probably had no idea that they could eliminate the HD fee for 2 years just by complaining so they continued to pay it.

New DirecTV subscribers get the big discounts (and free HD) only if they follow the new customer offer exactly and make no changes to their account (or miss just ONE payment!). If they downgrade their package at any time, the free HD goes away.

I firmly believe that the so-called "free HD" is going away. Maybe not this summer, but sometime in the future. I think $10 a month is outrageous just to get the same channels in HD-especially in view of the ever-increasing OTHER charges for DVR service and programming packages.


----------



## Shades228

ThomasM said:


> The only reason DirecTV offered to waive the $10 HD fee for existing customers was because they feared a massive defection to DISH network. Even then, DirecTV agreed to a "2 year waiver of the HD fee", not "life". Meanwhile, numerous "billing errors" restored the HD fee until existing subscribers complained AGAIN. Many existing customers probably had no idea that they could eliminate the HD fee for 2 years just by complaining so they continued to pay it.
> 
> New DirecTV subscribers get the big discounts (and free HD) only if they follow the new customer offer exactly and make no changes to their account (or miss just ONE payment!). If they downgrade their package at any time, the free HD goes away.
> 
> I firmly believe that the so-called "free HD" is going away. Maybe not this summer, but sometime in the future. I think $10 a month is outrageous just to get the same channels in HD-especially in view of the ever-increasing OTHER charges for DVR service and programming packages.


Only 1 issues was specific to the HD for 24 month promotion and it impacted people who first got it when they hit their 13th month. If they were going to remove the HD Access fee within the next 12 months they would have just done it not with new packages. Don't expect the fee to go away any time soon. People said that 2 years ago when the Free HD started.


----------



## zimm7778

"OverThereTooMuch" said:


> Are there any legitimate ways to get access to NFL games via the internet? I see they have a Game Pass option, but it's not available in the US or Mexico. Looks like the best they offer in the US is live audio, or Game Rewind allowing you to watch the games at some point after they're finished.


Play station 3 offers NFL Sunday Ticket through their system, so yes.


----------



## ffemtreed

zimm7778 said:


> Play station 3 offers NFL Sunday Ticket through their system, so yes.


Yep! which is the reason I swapped my xbox360 for a PS3 this past month. Also got my Roku box as well.

A good outside antenna is all that is left till I can get rid of the big bill each month. Once the NHL season is over I am gone. About the only thing that can change my mind at this point is if they substantially upgrade their 3D lineup.


----------



## WebTraveler

And they won't fear a defection to Dish Network or someone else going forward? Directv can do whatever it feels it needs to do and most customers really don't care who their provider is right now. I fully expect the HD credit to be renewed because if it is not you will see a massive morale issue within the customer ranks. Any change to the bill would be an increase.....see the Bush tax cut example for that.



ThomasM said:


> The only reason DirecTV offered to waive the $10 HD fee for existing customers was because they feared a massive defection to DISH network. Even then, DirecTV agreed to a "2 year waiver of the HD fee", not "life". Meanwhile, numerous "billing errors" restored the HD fee until existing subscribers complained AGAIN. Many existing customers probably had no idea that they could eliminate the HD fee for 2 years just by complaining so they continued to pay it.
> 
> New DirecTV subscribers get the big discounts (and free HD) only if they follow the new customer offer exactly and make no changes to their account (or miss just ONE payment!). If they downgrade their package at any time, the free HD goes away.
> 
> I firmly believe that the so-called "free HD" is going away. Maybe not this summer, but sometime in the future. I think $10 a month is outrageous just to get the same channels in HD-especially in view of the ever-increasing OTHER charges for DVR service and programming packages.


----------



## bixler

thomasr1950 said:


> I've called DTV, emailed you name it, threatened to cancel, NO LUCK. They won't budge on their pkg. prices. My discounts have ended, now all they will give me is $5 a month for 3 months. They say we're giving you $10 HD free. Yes, due to the fact my CC is getting billed each month. *So they are getting their money each month*.


Seriously? So if you can't get a discount you don't want to pay your bills? LOL


----------



## A_Bear

bixler said:


> Seriously? So if you can't get a discount you don't want to pay your bills? LOL


He cracks me up Bixler, doesnt want to pay the prices he signed a contract for after his rebates are over and thinks that d* lied to him.

It is people like this that makes my work not enjoyable because I can not tell them what I want to, I just have to keep my mouth shut.....


----------



## Drew2k

bixler said:


> thomasr1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've called DTV, emailed you name it, threatened to cancel, NO LUCK. They won't budge on their pkg. prices. My discounts have ended, now all they will give me is $5 a month for 3 months. I even gave them a referall, no they didn't give my acct. #, so i don't get a referall credit. They say we're giving you $10 HD free. Yes, due to the fact my CC is getting billed each month. *So they are getting their money each month.*
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? So if you can't get a discount you don't want to pay your bills? LOL
Click to expand...

Did I misread what the other guy wrote, or did you? He's definitely digging for more discounts or credits, but he's not saying he's not going to pay... rather, he's affirming that they already bill his credit card monthly....



> So they are getting their money each month.


----------



## NR4P

A_Bear said:


> It is people like this that makes my work not enjoyable because I can not tell them what I want to, I just have to keep my mouth shut.....


I know I speak/write for a few others here that appreciate what you shared in this thread and what you do. We may not have liked it, but heck, we don't shoot the messenger.

Hopefully most of what you do in your work is enjoyable. I know I've had some great experiences from my end. Including one just last week,


----------



## skatingrocker17

I can't believe my contract is up in June. I'm really debating keeping DirecTV now.

If TWC got better cable boxes or at least a halfway decent looking GUI I'd switch to them. Unfortunately for me, they probably haven't. I can't go from this beautiful DirecTV HD GUI to the crappy TWC software that hasn't changed since I first got digital cable in 2004.


----------



## SledgeHammer

Well, whats to stop defections to DISH when the HD credit goes away? Both DTV and Dish are offering free HD for life for NEW customers. Existing customers on both providers get screwed.

Question for a_bear... not sure if he knows or can tell us, but I'm guessing out of the 20M DirecTV customers, VERY FEW are actually getting the $10 credit. Simply because they don't know about it. Lots of people just set it to auto pay and forget about it without even looking at the bill. Others simply pay the bill and aren't enthusiasts so they don't know about the deal. I'd be willing to guess that no more then 2 or 3M are getting the discount and the other 17M are continuing to pay full price. I know quite a few people who even if they knew about it would be too lazy to call in and get the discount. You know the type... you remind them once and get "Oh yeah, I was SO busy last night, I didn't get a chance!" and then you don't bother reminding them again .

I discovered that we get 20% off our cell phone bills through work, so I told 5 co-workers about it. You know how many actually took the 2 minutes to fill out the web form and get the discount? ONE.


----------



## James Long

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, whats to stop defections to DISH when the HD credit goes away? Both DTV and Dish are offering free HD for life for NEW customers. Existing customers on both providers get screwed.


FYI: DISH is still offering "for life" to all existing customers. All the customer has to do is meet the same conditions as a new customer (paperless/autopay/2 year commitment) or pay a one time fee ($99). Life is as long as the account is active. Many customers were grandfathered "for life" when the deal was first introduced.

I wish DirecTV would call it "for life" for existing customers. It would lower the angst level. There are a lot of people who express the frustration you express that new DirecTV customers get it "for life" while existing customers are only promised "2 years".


SledgeHammer said:


> I discovered that we get 20% off our cell phone bills through work, so I told 5 co-workers about it. You know how many actually took the 2 minutes to fill out the web form and get the discount? ONE.


I get 22% ... and the carrier doesn't check to make sure you stay employed so basically it is 22% "for life". And yes, getting people to sign up - even those paying the same carrier full price - is difficult.


----------



## MysteryMan

bixler said:


> Seriously? So if you can't get a discount you don't want to pay your bills? LOL


Wonders if he's like that with his other service providers (phone, electric, heat, ect.)?


----------



## WebTraveler

I've been engaging with Directv over the past few days on the HD issue, by telephone and by email; The jist of it all is that the HD promo runs through June for me and that's all they can tell me. They agree that new customers get a better deal if my HD credit is allowed to expire.

They also tell me that they have no plans to carry the Pac 12 Network. While this is a canned generic statement that they tell to everyone about any channel, I do wonder how that will shake out. We've still got 7-8 months on this.

Collectively these two issues may be enough to push me over the edge if they are not resolved to my satisfaction.


----------



## dishrich

Shades228 said:


> Negative if you don't get HD you don't get a slimline dish.


EXCEPT in MPEG4 markets...


----------



## n3vino

Drew2k said:


> Did I misread what the other guy wrote, or did you? He's definitely digging for more discounts or credits, but he's not saying he's not going to pay... rather, he's affirming that they already bill his credit card monthly....


No, you didn't misread it. He never said he wouldn't pay his bill.

Auto bill pay and paperless statements saves D* money. How much I don't know. Unless I'm wrong, logic tells me that D has software that automatically charges a customers credit card/account, the money is paid automatically to D*'s account, and the customers account is credited automatically.

When a customer sends a check, D* has to hire someone to open the payment envelopes, set up the coupons and checks, which logic tells me are run through a check reader and posts to the customers account and sets up the checks with a list and a deposit slip to go to D*s bank for posting to their account. It's possible that D* separates the checks by region in order to get a cheaper rate from their bank. Those that are rejected by the check reader have to be handled and posted manually.

Another possibility is that D* subscribes to a bank's lockbox service, which provides the above services for a fee, with the exception of posting the payments to D*'s customer. D* still has to do that. Just imagine the number of checks D* receives on a daily basis.

Another method is when a customer sets up auto payment through his bank, they will either send a check, either on paper, or electronically. No coupon goes with that method, so most likely D* has to post the accounts manually.

Why did I post this? That's to show that D* benfits from autobill pay. If not for Free HD, I would not let them charge my credit card. I would put them on autobill pay at my bank to send them a check monthly, either electronically or on paper. I really didn't want them to charge my credit card, but free HD talked me into it.

FYI, I worked in banking for 35 years in computer operations and check processing.


----------



## loudo

It is aggravating that we get these price increases every year, but we have to remember all of the providers satellite and cable do it, on a yearly basis. I just checked my local cable and to get what I have with DirecTV through them, it would cost me another $31.00 a month. 
I just wish the percentage of my income increased as much as the price increases of the programing packages do each year.


----------



## Shades228

n3vino said:


> No, you didn't misread it. He never said he wouldn't pay his bill.
> 
> Auto bill pay and paperless statements saves D* money. How much I don't know. Unless I'm wrong, logic tells me that D has software that automatically charges a customers credit card/account, the money is paid automatically to D*'s account, and the customers account is credited automatically.
> 
> When a customer sends a check, D* has to hire someone to open the payment envelopes, set up the coupons and checks, which logic tells me are run through a check reader and posts to the customers account and sets up the checks with a list and a deposit slip to go to D*s bank for posting to their account. It's possible that D* separates the checks by region in order to get a cheaper rate from their bank. Those that are rejected by the check reader have to be handled and posted manually.
> 
> Another possibility is that D* subscribes to a bank's lockbox service, which provides the above services for a fee, with the exception of posting the payments to D*'s customer. D* still has to do that. Just imagine the number of checks D* receives on a daily basis.
> 
> Another method is when a customer sets up auto payment through his bank, they will either send a check, either on paper, or electronically. No coupon goes with that method, so most likely D* has to post the accounts manually.
> 
> Why did I post this? That's to show that D* benfits from autobill pay. If not for Free HD, I would not let them charge my credit card. I would put them on autobill pay at my bank to send them a check monthly, either electronically or on paper. I really didn't want them to charge my credit card, but free HD talked me into it.
> 
> FYI, I worked in banking for 35 years in computer operations and check processing.


You can do autobill pay through EFT with them but it has to be setup through DIRECTV and not your bank.

Processing fees for checks are still cheaper per transaction than most CC fees when dealing with the average monthly payment DIRECTV gets.

The real benefit to automatic payment for companies is that it helps make their cash flow more consistent.


----------



## SledgeHammer

James Long said:


> I get 22% ... and the carrier doesn't check to make sure you stay employed so basically it is 22% "for life". And yes, getting people to sign up - even those paying the same carrier full price - is difficult.


Yup... some people just don't like free money. They wouldn't mind it, of course, but not if it takes ANY effort on their part. Another great example is that last year, I told 7 family members / friends / co-workers, etc. about a checking account that pays 4.09% interest. They were skeptical at first, but I said there are a few catches: you have to use their debit card 12x a month (everybody uses their credit card at least 12x a month anyways, so just use a different card -- don't even have to enter the pin, just use their card like a credit card) and do 1 bill pay a month (which everybody also does anyways) through them. Not ONE person signed up. Haha... everybody said "sounds like too much of a hassle!" even though they are already doing the same exact thing at Bank Of America for 0.05% interest.

Oh well!


----------



## bobcamp1

loudo said:


> It is aggravating that we get these price increases every year, but we have to remember all of the providers satellite and cable do it, on a yearly basis. I just checked my local cable and to get what I have with DirecTV through them, it would cost me another $31.00 a month.
> I just wish the percentage of my income increased as much as the price increases of the programing packages do each year.


I just checked FIOS, and they're $65/month less than D*. If I bundle the TV-Internet-Phone service together, it's $75/month total for two years ($65 first year, $85 second year). So the FIOS TV service is $10/month. I also get a free HD whole-home DVR for a year and a free SD box for life. And more channels and better HD.

The price increase forced me to realize I'm an idiot for staying with D*. (I checked not to long ago, and the price was within $10 of D*). But it's been a good 16 years.


----------



## SledgeHammer

bobcamp1 said:


> I just checked FIOS, and they're $65/month less than D*. If I bundle the TV-Internet-Phone service together, it's $75/month total for two years ($65 first year, $85 second year). So the FIOS TV service is $10/month. I also get a free HD whole-home DVR for a year and a free SD box for life. And more channels and better HD.
> 
> The price increase forced me to realize I'm an idiot for staying with D*. (I checked not to long ago, and the price was within $10 of D*). But it's been a good 16 years.


Thats just a promo price. After the promo is over, it goes up a lot.

There are "undocumented" discounts with DTV. -$10/mo for HD for 2yrs if you do auto-pay and an additional -$5/mo if you bundle with a land line like AT&T.

I would *love* to find something cheaper, but there really isn't anything after you look past promo prices. Kind of a PITA to switch providers every 2 yrs.


----------



## n3vino

Shades228 said:


> You can do autobill pay through EFT with them but it has to be setup through DIRECTV and not your bank.
> 
> Processing fees for checks are still cheaper per transaction than most CC fees when dealing with the average monthly payment DIRECTV gets.
> 
> The real benefit to automatic payment for companies is that it helps make their cash flow more consistent.


I was not talking about Electronic Funds Transfers. I was talking about checks being sent via electronic methods. When a bank's autopay system has a lot of checks going to a company, most of the time they do it electronically instead of paper. Two different things. EFT are set up through D* and the other is controlled totally by the customer.

The cash flow is more consistent but in addition, they eliminate float. Float is the time it takes a check to go from a depositor's bank to the payee's bank. Interest is most likely paid to D* based on how much is in their account.

I'ts hard to determine what it costs D* to process all those checks when you consider check handling and posting to accounts when you consider labor costs and benefits. Obviously it's to D*'s benefit to do auto bill pay or they wouldn't do it.


----------



## billsharpe

SledgeHammer said:


> Thats just a promo price. After the promo is over, it goes up a lot.
> 
> There are "undocumented" discounts with DTV. -$10/mo for HD for 2yrs if you do auto-pay and an additional -$5/mo if you bundle with a land line like AT&T.
> 
> I would *love* to find something cheaper, but there really isn't anything after you look past promo prices. Kind of a PITA to switch providers every 2 yrs.


Promo prices that are good for two years guaranteed are fine with me. That's the main reason I switched to FiOS in October -- I'm saving $40 per month. The hassle, and I agree it is indeed a hassle, of switching providers every two years is worth my total savings of at least $960.


----------



## jzoomer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The entitlement mentality continues.


I always enjoy seeing the "E" card being played.


----------



## SledgeHammer

billsharpe said:


> Promo prices that are good for two years guaranteed are fine with me. That's the main reason I switched to FiOS in October -- I'm saving $40 per month. The hassle, and I agree it is indeed a hassle, of switching providers every two years is worth my total savings of at least $960.


Ok, so you are saving $1000 for two years (assuming you have all applicable "undocumented" DTV discounts)... does your time & hassle count for anything?

$1000 savings spread out over 2yrs? I don't know that I would bother for that because I would factor in changing out the equipment, the 4hrs I'd have to stay at home for the install, loss of recordings, season passes, to do list, etc.


----------



## zimm7778

"SledgeHammer" said:


> Thats just a promo price. After the promo is over, it goes up a lot.
> 
> There are "undocumented" discounts with DTV. -$10/mo for HD for 2yrs if you do auto-pay and an additional -$5/mo if you bundle with a land line like AT&T.
> 
> I would *love* to find something cheaper, but there really isn't anything after you look past promo prices. Kind of a PITA to switch providers every 2 yrs.


I have a land line through Verizon but when I called to get a discount I was told that's only in areas where FIOS TV wasn't available. That could be the case with AT&T as well.


----------



## zimm7778

"ffemtreed" said:


> Yep! which is the reason I swapped my xbox360 for a PS3 this past month. Also got my Roku box as well.
> 
> A good outside antenna is all that is left till I can get rid of the big bill each month. Once the NHL season is over I am gone. About the only thing that can change my mind at this point is if they substantially upgrade their 3D lineup.


You are almost verbatim what I'm strongly considering doing. The problem is I've tried an HD antenna several times in the years I've had an HDTV and i have nothing but problems with the signal. I've bought an outside one but I don't know how to install it or really who to even call.


----------



## SledgeHammer

zimm7778 said:


> I have a land line through Verizon but when I called to get a discount I was told that's only in areas where FIOS TV wasn't available. That could be the case with AT&T as well.


I have AT&T and bundled. Might want to try playing CSR roulette a few times .


----------



## Alan Gordon

jzoomer said:


> I always enjoy seeing the "E" card being played.


I've been considering starting a petition to ban it's use on DBSTalk... 

Sure, there are some posters I've read who certainly do fit that bill... and I'm sure our installers and CSRs who post here deal with them quite frequently, but it gets used here _FAR_ too much and _FAR_ too liberally.

While I'm upset by the price increase, I knew it was coming, so I see no need to complain about it myself. Though I may have to suspend my service some this year due to financial reasons, I intend to stick with DirecTV a while longer. Another year or two, and I will probably have to give it up... even though a smarter me would give it up this year.

I believe I'm _entitled_ to a reliable service for the prices set by DirecTV... HD simulcasts when possible, reliable equipment in order to view their service, and good customer service when I have an issue.

Other than that, I'm good. 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

SledgeHammer said:


> an additional -$5/mo if you bundle with a land line like AT&T.


Isn't that only for new DSL customers only?

Windstream is listed on DirecTV's bundle page (even though Windstream is partnered with Dish Network), and I believe I looked into it and was told the bundle was only for those who signed up with Windstream through DirecTV or something?!?! 

I'm not sure it would have done me any good anyway, as I subscribe to Greenstreak... Windstream's topless (not quite naked) DSL... which I'm not sure would be eligible anyway... 

~Alan


----------



## TBlazer07

SledgeHammer said:


> Ok, so you are saving $1000 for two years (assuming you have all applicable "undocumented" DTV discounts)... does your time & hassle count for anything?
> 
> $1000 savings spread out over 2yrs? I don't know that I would bother for that because I would factor in changing out the equipment, the 4hrs I'd have to stay at home for the install, loss of recordings, season passes, to do list, etc.


 Here in NJ Fios has deals where I would be saving like $900 first year ($250 gift card) and like $600 2nd. But $500/yr might be 8 tanks of gas, or food, or clothes, or utilities, or dinners out or whatever. For some folks it's a LOT more than it seems to other folks. Don't knock $500+/yr until you need it. Point is, you have to stop somewhere. Sometimes a little hassle is the price you have to pay.


----------



## mdavej

Alan Gordon said:


> Isn't that only for new DSL customers only?


I got the bundle discount just by asking. I didn't sign up through AT&T and had already been a customer for 20 years when I got DirecTV. I didn't even have DSL at the time, just a land line and long distance.


----------



## Alan Gordon

mdavej said:


> I got the bundle discount just by asking. I didn't sign up through AT&T and had already been a customer for 20 years when I got DirecTV. I didn't even have DSL at the time, just a land line and long distance.


Something I need to keep in mind then.

I know Windstream has bundles with Dish Network, but I think you have to go through Windstream customer service, and I suspect you may be treated like a red-headed step-child compared to someone's who is solely a Dish Network customer. However, I'm guessing their deal with DirecTV is different? Just a discount sorta thing?!?!

~Alan


----------



## bobcamp1

SledgeHammer said:


> Ok, so you are saving $1000 for two years (assuming you have all applicable "undocumented" DTV discounts)... does your time & hassle count for anything?
> 
> $1000 savings spread out over 2yrs? I don't know that I would bother for that because I would factor in changing out the equipment, the 4hrs I'd have to stay at home for the install, loss of recordings, season passes, to do list, etc.


If your DVR dies, and you get a "new" one from D*, you'd have to do the same thing. I'm not sure what your point is here.

Verizon lets you enter in whatever they are offering for new customers once your contract is up. It's a new contract, but I'll be astonished if I ever pay full price.

$55 FIOS Internet & phone + $80 D* vs. $80 for everything. Why would I pay almost twice as much for slightly worse service? FIOS has more channels, better quality HD, and no rain fade. It's $1320 in savings.

I'll suspend D* for six months and see what happens. I'm not taking down the dish or messing with the cables. If I do quit, all I have to do to switch back to D* is to have them ship me the boxes and plug them back in. Since I'll be a new customer, I'll get free HD for life and whatever promotion they're running at the time.


----------



## onan38

I hate price increases as much as the next person.I will just pass the fast food driveup window a few times a month and eat the poor mans steak Bologna and a hand full of chips.Did i mention i love my Directv.


----------



## jzoomer

Alan Gordon said:


> I've been considering starting a petition to ban it's use on DBSTalk...


It seems the word is thrown out there to make us feel guilty for trying to get the best service for the lowest cost. It won't work for me!


----------



## OverThereTooMuch

zimm7778 said:


> Play station 3 offers NFL Sunday Ticket through their system, so yes.


Per their website, you can ONLY get this if you can't get DTV service.

So if you cancel your DTV service now, and then try to sign up for this next year (assuming they even offer it again), it might not work.


----------



## SledgeHammer

bobcamp1 said:


> If your DVR dies, and you get a "new" one from D*, you'd have to do the same thing. I'm not sure what your point is here.


Your DVR dies every 2 years? Wow! you have pretty bad luck I'd say!


----------



## bobcamp1

SledgeHammer said:


> Your DVR dies every 2 years? Wow! you have pretty bad luck I'd say!


Only the HR2x boxes, I have a 10 year old Tivo that's still running. 

But really, when I switched from my Tivo to the HR2x, it only took 20 minutes to set up 35 season passes. Either get a separate TV or just take pictures of the old list using a digital camera. That way you get the shows in the same order with the same settings. It's not a big deal to switch DVRs. It's certainly worth two mortgage payments.


----------



## Jive Turkey

The problem I always have with setting up new DVR's are the series that do not air year around. If you have to switch out a DVR in the summer when half the network show are on hiatus and pay network shows like Dexter, Burn Notice, and Psych aren't even airing repeats, it can become annoying. 

I had to get a new box in August and it wasn't until 2 days ago that I could fully rebuild my series manager list when a White Collar repeat showed up on USA. It isn't hard to do by any means, but I can understand it being frustrating to keep a written list that you have to consistently check for months until you can put all of your series back on a new DVR.


----------



## Satelliteracer

zimm7778 said:


> Play station 3 offers NFL Sunday Ticket through their system, so yes.


DIRECTV allowed Sony to do that this past season as a test for NFL Sunday Ticket. No guarantee that goes on. Doesn't mean it won't, but my point is that deal is not with Sony and the NFL. It's with DIRECTV and Sony.


----------



## SledgeHammer

bobcamp1 said:


> It's certainly worth two mortgage payments.


Your mortgage payment is only $500? NICE!! So much for living in Southern California .


----------



## billsharpe

SledgeHammer said:


> Ok, so you are saving $1000 for two years (assuming you have all applicable "undocumented" DTV discounts)... does your time & hassle count for anything?
> 
> $1000 savings spread out over 2yrs? I don't know that I would bother for that because I would factor in changing out the equipment, the 4hrs I'd have to stay at home for the install, loss of recordings, season passes, to do list, etc.


Yes, I had a slew of DirecTV discounts going. The hassle factor isn't that big. I'm retired so I'm home anyway for the install, I only lost a few recordings, I have few season passes, my to do list is very short. I have no interest in Sunday Ticket. I'll admit it was a bit of a learning curve to figure out where FiOS puts all its channels vs. DirecTV's lineup.

The annoyance factor of a slow remote response on my HR20 has now gone away without having to wait for the promised HD GUI. And FiOS VOD blows away DirecTV's offerings in that area. I went from a 300 gb hard drive to 500 gb. I also get BBC World News and CNN International, which aren't carried at all by DirecTV. FiOS also offered a full year of HBO/Cinemax at half-price, which I jumped at since I wanted to watch Boardwalk Empire's second season.

DirecTV has already made some nice offers to get me to come back, but let's see what happens in two years.


----------



## Dpmayer

An extra five dollars. At least I have a flashy hd GUI now. Money doesn't seem to matter. =)


----------



## bobcamp1

Jive Turkey said:


> The problem I always have with setting up new DVR's are the series that do not air year around. If you have to switch out a DVR in the summer when half the network show are on hiatus and pay network shows like Dexter, Burn Notice, and Psych aren't even airing repeats, it can become annoying.
> 
> I had to get a new box in August and it wasn't until 2 days ago that I could fully rebuild my series manager list when a White Collar repeat showed up on USA. It isn't hard to do by any means, but I can understand it being frustrating to keep a written list that you have to consistently check for months until you can put all of your series back on a new DVR.


Isn't that what Wishlists and Keywords are for? You can always go back and make them "real" season passes or series links when the show starts re-airing. But generally I've found I don't need to.


----------



## bobcamp1

SledgeHammer said:


> Your mortgage payment is only $500? NICE!! So much for living in Southern California .


Well, I live in upstate New York. My monthly real estate taxes are more than the mortgage payment. But yes, at least the actual house is affordable.


----------



## SledgeHammer

billsharpe said:


> The annoyance factor of a slow remote response on my HR20 has now gone away without having to wait for the promised HD GUI.


I see it pop up every once in a while, but there is a special code you can enter to speed up the remote.



billsharpe said:


> I went from a 300 gb hard drive to 500 gb.


Weird. My HR20 has a 1.5TB drive in it .

Yeah, I guess if you are retired and don't mind the hassle, then switching every 2 yrs is Ok.

I did something like that while trying to pay off my car (transfered the remaining balance to a 0% credit card for 1yr), so every year, I had to retransfer. Haha... I guess I saved a lot of money vs a conventional car loan, and annoyed a few credit card companies along the way, but it was a PITA.


----------



## zimm7778

"bobcamp1" said:


> Well, I live in upstate New York. My monthly real estate taxes are more than the mortgage payment. But yes, at least the actual house is affordable.


Wow! Really?! So you pay the government more than what you pay to live in the house? That doesn't seem right.


----------



## TBlazer07

zimm7778 said:


> Wow! Really?! So you pay the government more than what you pay to live in the house? That doesn't seem right.


 My taxes are more than double the P&I on my mortgage because when I bought the house 42 years ago (and re-fi 2x since then) it cost less than a nice car costs today as does my mortgage. It's not unheard of to have a low P&I payment. Lots of reasons for that.


----------



## bobcamp1

zimm7778 said:


> Wow! Really?! So you pay the government more than what you pay to live in the house? That doesn't seem right.


Well the low interest rates help... Plus, even if you've paid off the house you still have to pay taxes.

I think I will switch to FIOS for a month and see what happens. We'll miss the tennis sports mix channels that are available during the four major tournaments, but much of that is also available online, and with 25 Mbps/25 Mbps Internet service we shouldn't have any problems with streaming.


----------



## Holydoc

bobcamp1 said:


> Isn't that what Wishlists and Keywords are for? You can always go back and make them "real" season passes or series links when the show starts re-airing. But generally I've found I don't need to.


Wishlists? Tell me more. Let's say for instance that I want to tape American Horror Story and Homeland, and they're not currently on and no repeats are showing. How do I create a Wishlist to hold them for when they do come on?

Sorry the concept of wishlists are new to me.


----------



## WestDC

Holydoc said:


> Wishlists? Tell me more. Let's say for instance that I want to tape American Horror Story and Homeland, and they're not currently on and no repeats are showing. How do I create a Wishlist to hold them for when they do come on?
> 
> Sorry the concept of wishlists are new to me.


I think he meant Q (wishlist) is a TIVO term perhaps.

Sub Q for wish list -- Do a Search for any program that is not showing as you described and the DVR will prompt you to add it to Your Q and it will be recorded when it shows in the guide.


----------



## bigtom

"bobcamp1" said:


> Well the low interest rates help... Plus, even if you've paid off the house you still have to pay taxes.
> 
> I think I will switch to FIOS for a month and see what happens. We'll miss the tennis sports mix channels that are available during the four major tournaments, but much of that is also available online, and with 25 Mbps/25 Mbps Internet service we shouldn't have any problems with streaming.


I was under the impression that DIRECTV and FiOS internet bundles were available as well. Best of both worlds, and 25M internet would be terrific for DIRECTVs video on demand service and you keep the tennis perks.


----------



## A_Bear

NR4P said:


> I know I speak/write for a few others here that appreciate what you shared in this thread and what you do. We may not have liked it, but heck, we don't shoot the messenger.
> 
> Hopefully most of what you do in your work is enjoyable. I know I've had some great experiences from my end. Including one just last week,


Sorry been gone for a bit, but yes most of it is enjoyable.... but it only takes 1 call to make it a bad day so to speak


----------



## A_Bear

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, whats to stop defections to DISH when the HD credit goes away? Both DTV and Dish are offering free HD for life for NEW customers. Existing customers on both providers get screwed.
> 
> Question for a_bear... not sure if he knows or can tell us, but I'm guessing out of the 20M DirecTV customers, VERY FEW are actually getting the $10 credit. Simply because they don't know about it. Lots of people just set it to auto pay and forget about it without even looking at the bill. Others simply pay the bill and aren't enthusiasts so they don't know about the deal. I'd be willing to guess that no more then 2 or 3M are getting the discount and the other 17M are continuing to pay full price. I know quite a few people who even if they knew about it would be too lazy to call in and get the discount. You know the type... you remind them once and get "Oh yeah, I was SO busy last night, I didn't get a chance!" and then you don't bother reminding them again .
> 
> I discovered that we get 20% off our cell phone bills through work, so I told 5 co-workers about it. You know how many actually took the 2 minutes to fill out the web form and get the discount? ONE.


Unfortunatly i do not have access to those statistics, but I can say this personally, I average 50ish calls per day. about 4-5 have the free hd access on a normal day


----------



## crkeehn

fiosguy said:


> In this day and age all HD channels that have the same lineup as their SD lineups, we should drop all the SD channels that are duplicate - make people upgrade to to HD so that could downrez the channels to sd tvs for people who dont have hd tvs yet....
> 
> all the initial cost in boxces and etc would be saved by every segment of the tv industry by less transmission fees and less equipment to main both channels


That's very generous of you. How would you suggest handling those of us who can't receive HD programming due to Line of Sight Issues? Some of us with SD service don't have any other choice.


----------



## David Ortiz

crkeehn said:


> That's very generous of you. How would you suggest handling those of us who can't receive HD programming due to Line of Sight Issues? Some of us with SD service don't have any other choice.


Sure is nice now that HD is on 99°, 101°, and 103°. It's much easier to get all of the sats than before.


----------



## crkeehn

David Ortiz said:


> Sure is nice now that HD is on 99°, 101°, and 103°. It's much easier to get all of the sats than before.


As I can only see the 101 satellite and that one through a notch between two trees, that doesn't help me. I can't see either of the flanking HD satellites.


----------



## A_Bear

crkeehn said:


> As I can only see the 101 satellite and that one through a notch between two trees, that doesn't help me. I can't see either of the flanking HD satellites.


Time to cut some trees down :lol:


----------



## The Spud

I've been with Directv for almost 10 years now. This is the first time I've considered leaving. I am not unhappy with Directv and I can certainly afford the price increase, but I thought I would explore my options.

Basic cable is about $16 and is cheap enough so that I can have both for a while and compare the two. Ultimately if I switch the plan would be to build an HTPC with a Ceton Infinitv 4 tuner card. To get the channels that I currently care about, I would then upgrade to Comcast's Digital Starter package. Not counting any discounts I could get from Directv or Comcast I would save $32/month. The savings also don't take into account the costs of building the HTPC. Theoretically the HTPC would pay for itself within a couple of years.


----------



## MysteryMan

The Spud said:


> I've been with Directv for almost 10 years now. This is the first time I've considered leaving. I am not unhappy with Directv and I can certainly afford the price increase, but I thought I would explore my options.
> 
> Basic cable is about $16 and is cheap enough so that I can have both for a while and compare the two. Ultimately if I switch the plan would be to build an HTPC with a Ceton Infinitv 4 tuner card. To get the channels that I currently care about, I would then upgrade to Comcast's Digital Starter package. Not counting any discounts I could get from Directv or Comcast I would save $32/month. The savings also don't take into account the costs of building the HTPC. Theoretically the HTPC would pay for itself within a couple of years.


I suggest you suspend your DirecTV account rather then terminate just in case you find the grass isn't greener with cable.


----------



## bobcamp1

bigtom said:


> I was under the impression that DIRECTV and FiOS internet bundles were available as well. Best of both worlds, and 25M internet would be terrific for DIRECTVs video on demand service and you keep the tennis perks.


It's not available where FIOS also offers a TV service. Even though I get the insert for that bundle in my local Sunday paper.


----------



## bobcamp1

WestDC said:


> I think he meant Q (wishlist) is a TIVO term perhaps.
> 
> Sub Q for wish list -- Do a Search for any program that is not showing as you described and the DVR will prompt you to add it to Your Q and it will be recorded when it shows in the guide.


Yes, that 's what I meant.  The majority of DVRs can record based on a keyword search. (I'm not sure that FIOS can, but it has a 30-day period to cancel, or I can buy a Tivo).


----------



## ffemtreed

The Spud said:


> I've been with Directv for almost 10 years now. This is the first time I've considered leaving. I am not unhappy with Directv and I can certainly afford the price increase, but I thought I would explore my options.
> 
> Basic cable is about $16 and is cheap enough so that I can have both for a while and compare the two. Ultimately if I switch the plan would be to build an HTPC with a Ceton Infinitv 4 tuner card. To get the channels that I currently care about, I would then upgrade to Comcast's Digital Starter package. Not counting any discounts I could get from Directv or Comcast I would save $32/month. The savings also don't take into account the costs of building the HTPC. Theoretically the HTPC would pay for itself within a couple of years.


By the time the PC pays for itself you'll need a new one.

I am planning on going a similar route.

new TivoHD to record OTA
Roku Box to watch online content
PS3 for netflix and movie downloads and maybe splurge on Sunday Ticket.

Between netflix and amazon VOD I can keep myself entertained with TV and not be too far behind the times.

The only real thing I will miss from DTV is getting all those hockey games in HD.


----------



## Skyboss

Already offset my bill. Just dumped HS Extrapack. Way to go D!


----------



## Skyboss

crkeehn said:


> That's very generous of you. How would you suggest handling those of us who can't receive HD programming due to Line of Sight Issues? Some of us with SD service don't have any other choice.


You should maybe consider this is the future and adjust accordingly for it.


----------



## TBlazer07

Skyboss said:


> Already offset my bill. Just dumped HS Extrapack. Way to go D!


 If you're referring to the HD Extra Pack just wait a couple days and you'll see an offer for 3 months free in your account .... and for some reason that offer constantly repeats itself after you cancel when 3 months is up. For those that think it is "immoral" to take it for free you can be sure DirecTV has the programming knowledge to NOT let the offer repeat if they choose to do so just like they manage to NOT show an AM21 for purchase in your account when you have no compatible receiver to use it.


----------



## spartanstew

Skyboss said:


> Already offset my bill. Just dumped HS Extrapack. Way to go D!


LOL, you've been paying for that? I've had it free for about 2 years now.


----------



## Christopher Gould

"ffemtreed" said:


> By the time the PC pays for itself you'll need a new one.
> 
> I am planning on going a similar route.
> 
> new TivoHD to record OTA
> Roku Box to watch online content
> PS3 for netflix and movie downloads and maybe splurge on Sunday Ticket.
> 
> Between netflix and amazon VOD I can keep myself entertained with TV and not be too far behind the times.
> 
> The only real thing I will miss from DTV is getting all those hockey games in HD.


Can't get nfl Sunday ticket on ps3 if you can receive Directv is what I gather on here


----------



## Satelliteracer

ffemtreed said:


> By the time the PC pays for itself you'll need a new one.
> 
> I am planning on going a similar route.
> 
> new TivoHD to record OTA
> Roku Box to watch online content
> PS3 for netflix and movie downloads and maybe splurge on Sunday Ticket.
> 
> Between netflix and amazon VOD I can keep myself entertained with TV and not be too far behind the times.
> 
> The only real thing I will miss from DTV is getting all those hockey games in HD.


Article yesterday that programming and streaming costs are untenable for Netflix. They will have no choice to raise prices considerably again. HBO ended their DVD discounts to them today, announced publicly. Other studios announced yesterday Netflix will have to now wait at least 56 days to get programming if not longer. This is just the beginning, in my opinion.

We'll see where it shakes out but

http://www.kpth.com/story/16462922/...ts-off-netflix-from-dvd-and-blu-ray-discounts

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-redbox-netflix-20120107,0,2806609.story

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...-untenable-says-needham/?mod=google_news_blog


----------



## Bonneville44

One month out, anyone heard about what the new "Entertainment Pack" contains? I am in Choice Xtra and am wondering what happnes when I become _CLASSIC _as well. 

(PS I use Netflix and I LOVE it. Even if all it ever is happens to be a Nick at Nite combined with Encore type movies)


----------



## Snapaniac

Well, so I only get a 1% raise this year and Directv want's 4%... Looks I'm either dumping all my movie channels, or if I can talk my wife into it, dump it all together.

With netflix, hulu, etc... really, do I "need" Directv?


----------



## dpeters11

But, as SatelliteRacer said, there are very likely changes coming to solutions like Netflix and Hulu.


----------



## zimm7778

Get an antenna and watch that way. No threats to pull channels with that method.


----------



## Shades228

zimm7778 said:


> Get an antenna and watch that way. No threats to pull channels with that method.


Not true the FCC is asking TV operators to give up more and more spectrum. Soon eough I could see OTA disappear and a subsidy fund go to providers that would provide locals to any customer for free.


----------



## bixler

Snapaniac said:


> Well, so I only get a 1% raise this year and Directv want's 4%... Looks I'm either dumping all my movie channels, or if I can talk my wife into it, dump it all together.
> 
> With netflix, hulu, etc... really, do I "need" Directv?


You aren't comparing apples to apples with your percentages. You need to compare the additional dollars of your 1% salary increase to the additional dollars you are paying Direct TV. If you are making $25,000 a year I would be willing to bet you aren't paying Direct TV an additional $1,000 next year.


----------



## john262

I doubt if OTA will ever go away. There are some people who aren't served by cable and can't get broadband Internet and due to line of site issues can't get SAT either. To them OTA might be their only choice. I can't see them pulling the plug on people in that situation.


----------



## Jive Turkey

I think I'll just skip going to Wendy's once a month (or maybe skip side items twice) to make up for this crippling price increase.


----------



## Davenlr

john262 said:


> I doubt if OTA will ever go away. There are some people who aren't served by cable and can't get broadband Internet and due to line of site issues can't get SAT either. To them OTA might be their only choice. I can't see them pulling the plug on people in that situation.


What they (Govt) wants to do, is force all the locals to share transmitters, and cut the number of channels available to a minimum number to do this. IOW, goodbye HD OTA. Ive seen two 720p channels run on one transmitter,and it wasnt pretty.


----------



## Bonneville44

dpeters11 said:


> But, as SatelliteRacer said, there are very likely changes coming to solutions like Netflix and Hulu.


But why not ride that train as long as it lasts? Things change, but that is no reason to take advantage of a great deal for the time being (both a directv and netflix customer here)


----------



## bixler

Jive Turkey said:


> I think I'll just skip going to Wendy's once a month (or maybe skip side items twice) to make up for this crippling price increase.


Bingo. I don't like these price increases at all but if anyone is going to lose their house over it or switch because of $5 - $8 more per month then they weren't really interested in Direct TV anyway or they should be spending their money on essentials and not pay tv. 2 less beers or 1 less pack of smokes a month!


----------



## wingrider01

Snapaniac said:


> Well, so I only get a 1% raise this year and Directv want's 4%... Looks I'm either dumping all my movie channels, or if I can talk my wife into it, dump it all together.
> 
> With netflix, hulu, etc... really, do I "need" Directv?


Might want to investigate what you internet provider is planning on doing, a lot of them are instituting caps for bandwidth consumed within a billing period before you make that decision


----------



## thomas_d92

Some nights I go through the guide and can't find anything to watch and they keep raising prices for crap .I end up listening to music instead. I do not watch any reality junk that over half the channels have. When my contract is up I am leaving . I went 45 years without cable or sat . I have over 120 blu-rays and 50 hd-dvd's that I have not viewed yet. i just cannot justify almost a $100 a month just to watch tv.


----------



## TBlazer07

Jive Turkey said:


> I think I'll just skip going to Wendy's once a month (or maybe skip side items twice) to make up for this crippling price increase.





bixler said:


> Bingo. I don't like these price increases at all but if anyone is going to lose their house over it or switch because of $5 - $8 more per month then they weren't really interested in Direct TV anyway or they should be spending their money on essentials and not pay tv. 2 less beers or 1 less pack of smokes a month!


I don't think these type of smug comments are really fair. There are those who have already given up Wendy's or beers or movies in the theater or whatever else over the years due to these and other constant increases (gasoline, heating fuel, electricity, food prices to name a few) and don't want to *ALSO* have give up DirecTV because it REPLACES some of those other little enjoyments that we have already given up. Everyone's financial standing is different. Because an "automatic" yearly price increase is trivial to you it isn't to others who have different financial circumstances than you do.

Sure, it's "only" $5-$8 HERE but everything adds up.


----------



## Drew2k

I agree with TBlazer07 here - all situations are unique and for many customers it's not just a DIRECTV price hike that tips the scales, so there's a cumulative effect that comes into play.

If your DIRECTV package goes up $5 a month and the mirror fee goes up $1 a month and you have three additional TVs, that's an $8 a month increase, or $96 a year.

If your electric bill goes up $5 a month, that's another $60 a year.

Fees on your wireless bill go up - that's another $24 a year.

Just three examples and it's up to $180 a year.

Don't forget gas and food either, always going up.

At some point the multiple individual apparently negligible increases really add up and could take a huge bite of someone's budget, and that's where this is important. For some folks, these little increases may be a huge chunk of take-home pay for just one paycheck, so you can't view the DIRECTV price increases in a vacuum ...


----------



## loudo

We have completely stopped going to movies at theaters, and use that money towards keeping the Premier package. Yes, we may not be able to see a new movie the week it is released into the theater, but having hundreds of movies to pick from every month is not that bad.


----------



## mhking

What this is doing is making me reevaluate what I've got in my overall package, and I'll likely dump one of my premiums (I'll be hard pressed to dump my Sports Pack). I've just installed a Roku to help supplement some of my viewing... 

Anything to maximize my content for my limited bucks...


----------



## Alan Gordon

Snapaniac said:


> Well, so I only get a 1% raise this year and Directv want's 4%... Looks I'm either dumping all my movie channels, or if I can talk my wife into it, dump it all together.


Be grateful you got a raise at all...

~Alan


----------



## spartanstew

thomas_d92 said:


> Some nights I go through the guide and can't find anything to watch and they keep raising prices for crap .I end up listening to music instead. I do not watch any reality junk that over half the channels have. When my contract is up I am leaving . I went 45 years without cable or sat . I have over 120 blu-rays and 50 hd-dvd's that I have not viewed yet. i just cannot justify almost a $100 a month just to watch tv.




Let me get this straight. You've spent probably $3000 on Blu Rays and HD-DVD's that you haven't even watched yet, but spending $100 per month for TV is too much?


----------



## SPACEMAKER

This thread pretty much defines what's known on Twitter as #whitepeopleproblems and #firstworldproblems. haha


----------



## Snapaniac

bixler said:


> You aren't comparing apples to apples with your percentages. You need to compare the additional dollars of your 1% salary increase to the additional dollars you are paying Direct TV. If you are making $25,000 a year I would be willing to bet you aren't paying Direct TV an additional $1,000 next year.


Well, I know that difference between the "dollar" aspect. I'm going off the "principle" of it. 1% for me 4% for DirecTV - it's the principle


----------



## AquiringSat

Hey, I just came from Cox in Phoenix, where I was paying $125/mo for only 70 HD Channels none of which were even close to being in 1080p, and about $20 worth of nickle and dime crap, and THEN $50 for HSI, So I'll gladly pay DirecTV to give me the best product possible (HR34), and the most programming choices


----------



## Alan Gordon

spartanstew said:


> Let me get this straight. You've spent probably $3000 on Blu Rays and HD-DVD's that you haven't even watched yet, but spending $100 per month for TV is too much?


I'm not the poster you were talking to, but...

I have a huge Blu-ray collection. There are a TON of them I haven't seen yet...

However, I own these movies/shows. I can watch them anytime I want, and the majority of them in my collection are movies I like.

With DirecTV, I don't keep the content, I have no interest in a good majority of the channels, or even a percentage of the day on the channels I do... in order to watch on multiple TVs, I have to pay multiple outlet fees... in order to record those programs, I have to pay a DVR fee, and in order to continue to record stuff, I have to continuously make room on the DVR to make room for other stuff... and I have to pay a fee in order to watch what's recorded in one room, on another.

Now, granted I won't be buying many Blu-ray movies anytime lately, but I can certainly understand the difference...

~Alan


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Drew2k said:


> I agree with TBlazer07 here - all situations are unique and for many customers it's not just a DIRECTV price hike that tips the scales, so there's a cumulative effect that comes into play.
> 
> If your DIRECTV package goes up $5 a month and the mirror fee goes up $1 a month and you have three additional TVs, that's an $8 a month increase, or $96 a year.
> 
> If your electric bill goes up $5 a month, that's another $60 a year.
> 
> Fees on your wireless bill go up - that's another $24 a year.
> 
> Just three examples and it's up to $180 a year.
> 
> Don't forget gas and food either, always going up.
> 
> At some point the multiple individual apparently negligible increases really add up and could take a huge bite of someone's budget, and that's where this is important. For some folks, these little increases may be a huge chunk of take-home pay for just one paycheck, so you can't view the DIRECTV price increases in a vacuum ...


Food and utilities are necessities. DirecTV and internet are recreational. If someone can't handle the price increase they have the option of scaling back. Obviously people get pissed when someone says that but it's reality. People can whine about the price increases all they want but it will accomplish nothing. DirecTV will continue to add subs and increase their bottom line despite all the gnashing of teeth as a result of a measly $1 or 2 per week price increase.


----------



## spartanstew

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm not the poster you were talking to, but...
> 
> I have a huge Blu-ray collection. There are a TON of them I haven't seen yet...
> 
> However, I own these movies/shows. I can watch them anytime I want, and the majority of them in my collection are movies I like.
> 
> With DirecTV, I don't keep the content, I have no interest in a good majority of the channels, or even a percentage of the day on the channels I do... in order to watch on multiple TVs, I have to pay multiple outlet fees... in order to record those programs, I have to pay a DVR fee, and in order to continue to record stuff, I have to continuously make room on the DVR to make room for other stuff... and I have to pay a fee in order to watch what's recorded in one room, on another.
> 
> Now, granted I won't be buying many Blu-ray movies anytime lately, but I can certainly understand the difference...
> 
> ~Alan


Trust me, I understand the logic behind having a movie collection.

What I don't understand is having the disposable income to purchase $3000 in movies, but then complain that a $5 per month price hike is too much and will have to cancel. Buying 6 less movies on Blu Ray per year isn't an option?

He could justify $95 per month for TV, but not $100?

For many that might be the case. For him, doesn't seem like it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

SPACEMAKER said:


> Food and utilities are necessities. DirecTV and internet are recreational. If someone can't handle the price increase they have the option of scaling back. Obviously people get pissed when someone says that but it's reality. People can whine about the price increases all they want but it will accomplish nothing. DirecTV will continue to add subs and increase their bottom line despite all the gnashing of teeth as a result of a measly $1 or 2 per week price increase.


Depending upon your job and the like, the internet could be more than just recreational... otherwise, I agree with you 100%.

However, I think that's one of the main objectives of this thread... to give people an outlet to complain (I refuse to use the word "whine" in this situation).

The thing is, while I agree with you that TV is a luxury, not a "need," I can also understand how one can get upset by the realization that something they enjoy, and have enjoyed for years, is year by year taking up a bigger percentage of their income, and will have to give that up. It's not whining, it's simply being upset at the situation...

~Alan


----------



## Gloria_Chavez

Snapaniac said:


> Well, I know that difference between the "dollar" aspect. I'm going off the "principle" of it. 1% for me 4% for DirecTV - it's the principle


Snapaniac, you are on point.

According to the Labor Dept, the median wage has increased 2.1% over the last twelve months. During that same time span, inflation has been 3.4%.

So, over the LTM, the median worker has lost 1.3% in buying power.

Yet, PayTV continue to increase monthly rates as if wages were increasing 5% in real terms.

It's simply not sustainable.


----------



## kfcrosby

Me thinks it is time for the "Netflix" effect.


----------



## Alan Gordon

spartanstew said:


> Trust me, I understand the logic behind having a movie collection.
> 
> What I don't understand is having the disposable income to purchase $3000 in movies, but then complain that a $5 per month price hike is too much and will have to cancel. Buying 6 less movies on Blu Ray per year isn't an option?
> 
> He could justify $95 per month for TV, but not $100?
> 
> For many that might be the case. For him, doesn't seem like it.


$5 one year, $3 the next, $5 the next... these increases add up. There comes a point when even a $1 increase comes to the point where you might not be able to justify it. I'm staying with DirecTV for now, but I don't know how much longer I will be able to justify it... and I've been a DirecTV customer since 1995. 

Also... one might not know the circumstances in which a person was when they bought something. I have a far larger collection of Blu-ray movies than the poster you were referring to, but my circumstances have changed considerably since I purchased them. I won't even tell you how big of a percentage the DirecTV bill takes of my income NOW... 

~Alan


----------



## spewak

I just called to cancel the HD extra pack ($5 a month) to compensate for the raise in rates. I also was able to snag a Receiver upgrade with no extra fees and a $10 monthly discount for one year. I would like to thank this Discussion Board for the excellent points/tips/conversations that enable a sub. like myself save some money.
Cheers to one and all!


----------



## spartanstew

Alan Gordon said:


> $5 one year, $3 the next, $5 the next... these increases add up. There comes a point when even a $1 increase comes to the point where you might not be able to justify it. I'm staying with DirecTV for now, but I don't know how much longer I will be able to justify it... and I've been a DirecTV customer since 1995.
> 
> Also... one might not know the circumstances in which a person was when they bought something. I have a far larger collection of Blu-ray movies than the poster you were referring to, but my circumstances have changed considerably since I purchased them. I won't even tell you how big of a percentage the DirecTV bill takes of my income NOW...
> 
> ~Alan


I understand that too. I have close to 200 Blu Rays, several of which I haven't viewed either (see my thread in the for sale forum) and my financial situation has also changed since I purchased them. So, I'm selling them (if I want to watch one, there's Netflix or other means). Have only sold a few so far and have made ~$100 - more than enough to cover the cost increase for the next year.


----------



## Alan Gordon

spartanstew said:


> I understand that too. I have close to 200 Blu Rays, several of which I haven't viewed either (see my thread in the for sale forum) and my financial situation has also changed since I purchased them. So, I'm selling them (if I want to watch one, there's Netflix or other means). Have only sold a few so far and have made ~$100 - more than enough to cover the cost increase for the next year.


I have a few titles I intend on selling as well... however, that money should really be going to other things... and would be if I had a lick of sense.

Again, each thing/service has a worth to a person... and that thing/service can reach the point where it's simply not worth it to a person.

~Alan


----------



## billsharpe

You guys want a REAL price increase?

New York Times newsstand price went from $2 to $2.50 last week. That's 25%. DirecTV's increase pales in comparison.


----------



## pigskins

What's a newsstand? Or for that matter, a newspaper?


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> Trust me, I understand the logic behind having a movie collection.


 I never could understand that logic. There are probably 12 movies I have seen over my 47 "over 18" years of going to the movies that I would watch more than once. And really, for those who have hundreds (or thousands) of DVD's or whatever how many of those do you REALLY watch again that you couldn't watch from other sources. I had a friend who recently passed away with over 3000 DVD's & video tapes not counting the literally hundreds of recorded TV show tapes he "saved." He had an 14 x 22 room dedicated just to storage. He had more than most any video store. Truly can't understand that. They certainly have no collectors value for resale. Just can't understand that type of "collection" especially if the "collector" doesn't watch a lot of them at all. It's not even the "but I can afford it" reasoning, it's having them that I can't understand.


----------



## TBlazer07

spewak said:


> I just called to cancel the HD extra pack ($5 a month) to compensate for the raise in rates. I also was able to snag a Receiver upgrade with no extra fees and a $10 monthly discount for one year. I would like to thank this Discussion Board for the excellent points/tips/conversations that enable a sub. like myself save some money.
> Cheers to one and all!


 Now that you canceled it check your account because within 2-3 days you can get it free for 3 months. As for the receiver upgrade you get your contract extended for 2yrs just in case you weren't aware.


----------



## raott

"spewak" said:


> I just called to cancel the HD extra pack ($5 a month) to compensate for the raise in rates. I also was able to snag a Receiver upgrade with no extra fees and a $10 monthly discount for one year. I would like to thank this Discussion Board for the excellent points/tips/conversations that enable a sub. like myself save some money.
> Cheers to one and all!


You may want to log in to your account and see if there are any offers on the HD Extra pack you just cancelled. My bet is there is.


----------



## TBlazer07

SPACEMAKER said:


> Food and utilities are necessities. DirecTV and internet are recreational. If someone can't handle the price increase they have the option of scaling back. Obviously people get pissed when someone says that but it's reality. People can whine about the price increases all they want but it will accomplish nothing. DirecTV will continue to add subs and increase their bottom line despite all the gnashing of teeth as a result of a measly $1 or 2 per week price increase.


 These days Internet isn't recreational, it's just about a necessity for a very large number of people but you are right with DirecTV. People choose their "vices" and I would rather not go to the movies or not go to an expensive restaurant and keep DirecTV. Problem is, one keeps reducing some things so they can do others and eventually there is nothing to reduce anymore other than to give away what little enjoyment you have left. When that "enjoyment" start to get priced out of your range a little at a time there's nothing left but to give it up.

You're correct though, obviously if you can't afford it, dump it, but that is no excuse for the smarmy attitude people take towards others who don't have their financial status. Those comments are unnecessary. Of course Directv will go on without them but what does that have to do with people having to give up what they enjoy because they can't afford it any more.


----------



## zimm7778

"Jive Turkey" said:


> I think I'll just skip going to Wendy's once a month (or maybe skip side items twice) to make up for this crippling price increase.


I dont know of a anyone calling it a crippling increase. Everyone has their price breaking point. If I haven't reached mine yet, I'm pretty close. Same went for ppvs. When I watched wrestling and they were $30, fine. When they went to $35? It was more than I wanted to pay but paid it. But now $40? $50? Same for UFC and Boxing. I realize the price of everything has gone up but I'm not paying $50 for a ppv. As I said earlier, other than the NFL Network I don't think they've added a single channel I watch with any regularity. I'm just to that point where I wonder if it's worth it. If you aren't there, fine. You're neither right or wrong. I don't fault them for raising their prices.


----------



## Alan Gordon

TBlazer07 said:


> I never could understand that logic. There are probably 12 movies I have seen over my 47 "over 18" years of going to the movies that I would watch more than once. And really, for those who have hundreds (or thousands) of DVD's or whatever how many of those do you REALLY watch again that you couldn't watch from other sources. I had a friend who recently passed away with over 3000 DVD's & video tapes not counting the literally hundreds of recorded TV show tapes he "saved." He had an 14 x 22 room dedicated just to storage. He had more than most any video store. Truly can't understand that. They certainly have no collectors value for resale. Just can't understand that type of "collection" especially if the "collector" doesn't watch a lot of them at all. It's not even the "but I can afford it" reasoning, it's having them that I can't understand.


Some of the movies I have, I have seen many times. Others, less so...

Blu-ray remains the highest quality way to watch those movies.

If you're the type of person to only watch a movie once, you would not understand it, there wouldn't be a good reason to have a collection.

~Alan


----------



## renbutler

spartanstew said:


> Trust me, I understand the logic behind having a movie collection.
> 
> What I don't understand is having the disposable income to purchase $3000 in movies, but then complain that a $5 per month price hike is too much and will have to cancel. Buying 6 less movies on Blu Ray per year isn't an option?
> 
> He could justify $95 per month for TV, but not $100?
> 
> For many that might be the case. For him, doesn't seem like it.


There's always the chance that the guy didn't pay a single dollar (or paid no more than a few dollars each) for those DVDs, if you catch my drift...


----------



## bixler

billsharpe said:


> You guys want a REAL price increase?
> 
> New York Times newsstand price went from $2 to $2.50 last week. That's 25%. DirecTV's increase pales in comparison.


Exactly....people get their panties all in a wad because they compare a % increase to their salary increase (if they are lucky enough to receive one). It just gives them something to groan about.

People need to start comparing actual dollars, not percentages that are based on two different starting points, that in most cases are no where close to each other. (63.99 for Direct TV vs $30,000 annual salary).


----------



## Alan Gordon

bixler said:


> People need to start comparing actual dollars, not percentages that are based on two different starting points, that in most cases are no where close to each other. (63.99 for Direct TV vs $30,000 annual salary).


Assuming one is _LUCKY_ enough to make $30,000... :lol:

I'd feel like a millionaire! 

~Alan


----------



## bixler

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Snapaniac, you are on point.
> 
> According to the Labor Dept, the median wage has increased 2.1% over the last twelve months. During that same time span, inflation has been 3.4%.
> 
> So, over the LTM, the median worker has lost 1.3% in buying power.
> 
> Yet, PayTV continue to increase monthly rates as if wages were increasing 5% in real terms.
> 
> It's simply not sustainable.


What was the median wage 12 months ago and what is it now...not the percentage, the actual $. Compare that increase in dollars to the increase in monthly Direct TV rates from Feb 2011 to Feb 2012. You aren't comparing apples to apples when you throw these percentages around. Show us the real $$, not various percentages that aren't based off the same amount.


----------



## bixler

Alan Gordon said:


> Assuming one is _LUCKY_ enough to make $30,000... :lol:
> 
> I'd feel like a millionaire!
> 
> ~Alan


Well, whatever your annual salary it shouldn't be anywhere close to the monthly rate Direct TV is charging for programming package....if it is close then you shouldn't have Direct TV as you are living above your means.


----------



## Alan Gordon

bixler said:


> Well, whatever your annual salary it shouldn't be anywhere close to the monthly rate Direct TV is charging for programming package....if it is close then you shouldn't have Direct TV as you are living above your means.


It's too close that I shouldn't be paying for it, but I never claimed to be smart... LOL!!

Then again, I'm not really complaining about the price increase. I can't remember the last time a year went by without one, so I certainly expected it this year... although it's always fun that they choose to do it shortly before my birthday... LOL!

My point was simply that I know multiple people living on incomes of less than $30,000 (myself included), so that needs to be kept in mind when putting things into perspective.

~Alan


----------



## spartanstew

TBlazer07 said:


> I never could understand that logic. There are probably 12 movies I have seen over my 47 "over 18" years of going to the movies that I would watch more than once. And really, for those who have hundreds (or thousands) of DVD's or whatever how many of those do you REALLY watch again that you couldn't watch from other sources. I had a friend who recently passed away with over 3000 DVD's & video tapes not counting the literally hundreds of recorded TV show tapes he "saved." He had an 14 x 22 room dedicated just to storage. He had more than most any video store. Truly can't understand that. They certainly have no collectors value for resale. Just can't understand that type of "collection" especially if the "collector" doesn't watch a lot of them at all. It's not even the "but I can afford it" reasoning, it's having them that I can't understand.


Well, everybody is different. A few short years ago, I had over 800 DVD's (still have about 400), and I rarely watch the same movie more than once either. However, we used to entertain quite a bit in our dedicated theater, and I wanted to have a choice for our guests. I liked the fact that they could step into the theater and pick just about any movie that they wanted to watch. I even had the cataloged on the internet and some of our guests would peruse the list before coming over so they knew what to watch as soon as they arrived.

I did the same thing many years ago with music. I had several hundred CD's, but only really listed to about 20. When having a get-together, however, I liked the fact that guests could pick the music from a wide range - some that I'd never even listen to if given the choice.


----------



## ffemtreed

Jive Turkey said:


> I think I'll just skip going to Wendy's once a month (or maybe skip side items twice) to make up for this crippling price increase.


This is not about if I can afford it or not. I certainly can afford an extra couple dollars a month.

This is about them raising prices while crying its the content providers charging them more and more but yet they post record profits quarter after quarter. Its also not just about the 5 extra dollars this year, its the past 6 years where the price went up almost 5 dollars a year, so my bill is now about 40 dollars more a month than when I first started. You know what I haven't gotten a raise in 4 years because our corrupt govt doesn't know how to budget.

I am concerned about the direction the company is going as well, its seems all their R/D is being focused on mobile devices and frankly I have no interest in them. I see they just got 12 new channels for mobile devices. That is great for the people with Ipads but they are useless to me. That is fine if that is the direction the market is going, but its not the direction I am going.

It also ticks me off a bit that DTV doesn't offer any upgrade paths for existing customers to get some of the new equipment like the HR34 or the new tivo.

I remember when you subscribed to premier everything was included in that price, you got pretty much every non adult channel and all services included. They didn't nickle and dime you for whole home DVR, HD extra pack, DVR fee and etc.

To me, DTV lost focus on who is more important to them the stockholders or the customers. Or maybe they know that IP TV is eventually going to put a big hurt on their business model and they are trying to get whatever they can out of existing customers before its too late.


----------



## Snapaniac

bixler said:


> What was the median wage 12 months ago and what is it now...not the percentage, the actual $. Compare that increase in dollars to the increase in monthly Direct TV rates from Feb 2011 to Feb 2012. You aren't comparing apples to apples when you throw these percentages around. Show us the real $$, not various percentages that aren't based off the same amount.


Okay, here's actual dollars... My "raise" this year was $800

- My property taxes have increasd by over $100 a year
- My auto insurance (with NO claims): over $80 more per year
- a new $2.75 per month "fee" (read tax) on my water bill - for drainage
- My car takes super unleaded and the price of a gallon of gas has increases $.25 since Christmas - that's equals (bases on my MPG and annual miles) to $128 more per year

My daycare provider has increased by $25 a month for this year! A "nominal" 4.8% more this year - Geesh

Let me see: So far, that's puts my annual cost (or rise in cost) at $641 more a year and I haven't added in the increased cost for Directv OR how much more my health insurance company is taking from me this year.

an $800 a year "raise" (I use that term loosely seeing how I'm working more hours lately) has quickly gotten eaten up by all these "nominal" increases. So yeah, the percentage matters - to me. To mention, you need to take the income taxes out of that $800.

Looks like I'll be calling D* tonight to drop the premium channels... just to try and "break even"


----------



## bixler

Snapaniac said:


> Well, so I only get a 1% raise this year and Directv want's 4%... Looks I'm either dumping all my movie channels, or if I can talk my wife into it, dump it all together.
> 
> With netflix, hulu, etc... really, do I "need" Directv?





Snapaniac said:


> Okay, here's actual dollars... My "raise" this year was $800
> 
> - My property taxes have increasd by over $100 a year
> - My auto insurance (with NO claims): over $80 more per year
> - a new $2.75 per month "fee" (read tax) on my water bill - for drainage
> - My car takes super unleaded and the price of a gallon of gas has increases $.25 since Christmas - that's equals (bases on my MPG and annual miles) to $128 more per year
> 
> My daycare provider has increased by $25 a month for this year! A "nominal" 4.8% more this year - Geesh
> 
> Let me see: So far, that's puts my annual cost (or rise in cost) at $641 more a year and I haven't added in the increased cost for Directv OR how much more my health insurance company is taking from me this year.
> 
> an $800 a year "raise" (I use that term loosely seeing how I'm working more hours lately) has quickly gotten eaten up by all these "nominal" increases. So yeah, the percentage matters - to me. To mention, you need to take the income taxes out of that $800.
> 
> Looks like I'll be calling D* tonight to drop the premium channels... just to try and "break even"


So you are comparing a 1% salary increase on $80,000 to a 4% fee increase on what, $100 or less? You list those percentages in your first quote as if the Direct TV additional dollar amount is 4 times more than your raise. In fact, it's not even close.


----------



## Snapaniac

bixler said:


> So you are comparing a 1% salary increase on $80,000 to a 4% fee increase on what, $100 or less? You list those percentages in your first quote as if the Direct TV additional dollar amount is 4 times more than your raise. In fact, it's not even close.


Either you can't or don't want to see the point - the point being is that all these "small" increases add up. 4% here, 2% there - it doesn't take long for those 4% increases on $100 or less bill to add up to MORE than what (if any) raise you get. I prefer not to work harder to just "get behind".

The point is a matter of principle. And out of principle... I'll be dropping my premium channels.

It's supply and demand, if they can go up on prices and the demand doesn't drop then they'll keep increasing the price. Well, they have just reached the top of "my demand level". If they want me to keep paying for the premium channels, then they'll come down (or not raise the price). No sweat off my back.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

I still say that with the hours of enjoyment D* provides for myself and my family, the $130 or so per month I pay is a fantastic bargain. MRV was a total game changer. Getting it for only $3 per month is a steal.


----------



## MysteryMan

SPACEMAKER said:


> I still say that with the hours of enjoyment D* provides for myself and my family, the $130 or so per month I pay is a fantastic bargain. MRV was a total game changer. Getting it for only $3 per month is a steal.


Yup, with DirecTV you get a lot of bang for the bucks! Well worth it.


----------



## spaul

Ditto on the last two comments that there is more pluses then minuses to having Directv.I, mentioned a while back that I don't do PPV or stream and even buy or rent dvd,s going back to 2005 with first getting HDTV.Being on a fixed income for 18mos I did drop Cinemax but, kept the other three premium channels as well added HD Extra which is a better bargain then Cinemax and yes whole home feature is great.


----------



## john262

(In reply to ffemtreed)

I agree with you 100%, especially the part about their record profits. It's corporate greed at it's best. Since they are making record profits and their CEO makes millions, why can't they eat the content price increases just this once and give we customers a break?


----------



## zimm7778

"john262" said:


> (In reply to ffemtreed)
> 
> I agree with you 100%, especially the part about their record profits. It's corporate greed at it's best. Since they are making record profits and their CEO makes millions, why can't they eat the content price increases just this once and give we customers a break?


Why? So you can complain when it's doubled the next?


----------



## TheRatPatrol

I can't even remember the last time I bought any type of discs.


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> *Well, everybody is different.* A few short years ago, I had over 800 DVD's (still have about 400), and I rarely watch the same movie more than once either. However, we used to entertain quite a bit in our dedicated theater, and I wanted to have a choice for our guests. I liked the fact that they could step into the theater and pick just about any movie that they wanted to watch. I even had the cataloged on the internet and some of our guests would peruse the list before coming over so they knew what to watch as soon as they arrived.
> 
> I did the same thing many years ago with music. I had several hundred CD's, but only really listed to about 20. When having a get-together, however, I liked the fact that guests could pick the music from a wide range - some that I'd never even listen to if given the choice.


 Absolutely 100% ..... but I still can't understand it.


----------



## john262

zimm7778 said:


> Why? So you can complain when it's doubled the next?


I can't believe that there are so many people defending these price increases. Directv is making plenty of money and they don't need to stick us with a price increase. Where is it written in stone that there must be a price increase every year? Here's a concept. What about no price increase this year and no doubling the next? And while we are at it, Congress needs to hold hearings and investigate why the price of programming is going up so fast. Somebody is making a bundle on this whole mess and laughing all the way to the bank. We the American people need to say that enough is enough. No more price increases.


----------



## Davenlr

john262 said:


> Congress needs to hold hearings and investigate why the price of programming is going up so fast.


This isnt a socialist country. Corporations can charge whatever they want, as long as its not during a natural disaster.



> Somebody is making a bundle on this whole mess and laughing all the way to the bank.


I am more concerned with the oil companies prices than I am $5 a month to DirecTv and FOX. The price of a tank of gas, and food has risen much faster.



> We the American people need to say that enough is enough. No more price increases.


Vote with your wallet. I set a max price of $100/mo for DirecTv. I drop receivers, downgrade my extras every year to keep it at $100. So far I have dropped Sunday Ticket, then two years later, MLB Extra Innings, then the Sports Pak. This year I dropped from Ultimate to Choice Xtra. When it gets to the point where I cant get the channels I watch daily (vs the ones I might watch once a month) for $100 a month, then Ill drop subscription TV altogether.

If enough people drop stuff, they will get the message. Congress doesnt even need to get involved. They are for the big corporations ripping off the little guy anyway


----------



## AnonomissX

I for one am actually excited to see what the "entertainment" package brings. When I worked for Directv, a great deal of people who subscribed were there for the sports packages. My own family finally got their own subscription, because I refused to subscribe to Sunday Ticket, as they would conveniently forget to compensate me for it :hurah:

Now, I have moved, and in my new home, we don't care at all for sports. So an entertainment package would be great for my needs. I hope this means that Directv is seeing that a small subsection of customers is not there for the sports, so they can keep them as customers with a no-sports package, rather than lose their fees each month all together.

Also...when comparing wage increases with cost of living and expenditure increases...the ONLY apples to apples comparison is to go with percentages. "It's just a few dollars" is how you (ok I) get in financial trouble in the first place...


----------



## Shades228

AnonomissX said:


> I for one am actually excited to see what the "entertainment" package brings. When I worked for Directv, a great deal of people who subscribed were there for the sports packages. My own family finally got their own subscription, because I refused to subscribe to Sunday Ticket, as they would conveniently forget to compensate me for it :hurah:
> 
> Now, I have moved, and in my new home, we don't care at all for sports. So an entertainment package would be great for my needs. I hope this means that Directv is seeing that a small subsection of customers is not there for the sports, so they can keep them as customers with a no-sports package, rather than lose their fees each month all together.
> 
> Also...when comparing wage increases with cost of living and expenditure increases...the ONLY apples to apples comparison is to go with percentages. "It's just a few dollars" is how you (ok I) get in financial trouble in the first place...


Entertainment package won't have RSN's or national sports channels that are specialized i.e.. Big 10, ESPNU, NFL/NHL, Big 10, Sportmans and ESPNews.

As far as where I would cut if I had to I would rather cut out a non healthy snack once a week than give up on entertainment but that's just me.


----------



## Davenlr

AnonomissX said:


> I for one am actually excited to see what the "entertainment" package brings.


I really liked the SELECT package (The 44.99 one, not the retention one) when I had it, but had to upgrade to get the Golf channel. If it wasnt for the Golf channel, I would be perfectly content with SELECT. Of course, since SELECT doesnt quality for free HD, by the time you add on the $10 for HD, you are almost up to CHOICE anyway. And Im betting Entertainment wont quality for free HD either.


----------



## AnonomissX

Am paying for HD now, so I'm waiting to see how the dust settles with the entertainment package. I've been paying for HBO to keep my brother happy, but when he upgrades to a 4G phone...he is going to get access to my Netflix, and I will drop HBO and that extra cost


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## davidpo

Well im thinking if the price increases for 5 more years theres gonna be alotof people bak on ota. There has to be a breaking point for lots of people. We are getting fee'd to death by all companies. Directv slaps a fee for whdvr,hd fee, and I'm sure as soon as they can think of more we will get em.


----------



## MysteryMan

TBlazer07 said:


> Absolutely 100% ..... but I still can't understand it.


Being a film buff I have a extensive DVD library. This allows me to have my personal menu of film categories to choose from. Say your in the mood for a certain type of movie (western, scifi, ect.) but there arn't any being broadcast. Having your own film library resolves your desire. Also, the more you watch a movie the more you notice things you didn't see or hear with the initial viewing. Then there's the fun of looking for the hidden "Easter Eggs" that come with a lot of DVDs.


----------



## Joe C

Shades228 said:


> Entertainment package won't have RSN's or national sports channels that are specialized i.e.. Big 10, ESPNU, NFL/NHL, Big 10, Sportmans and ESPNews.


Link ?


----------



## Glen_D

Davenlr said:


> I really liked the SELECT package (The 44.99 one, not the retention one) when I had it, but had to upgrade to get the Golf channel. If it wasnt for the Golf channel, I would be perfectly content with SELECT. Of course, since SELECT doesnt quality for free HD, by the time you add on the $10 for HD, you are almost up to CHOICE anyway. And Im betting Entertainment wont quality for free HD either.


I'm betting Entertainment won't qualify for free HD either, which would be a deal-breaker for me. In fact, Choice XTRA is currently the minimum package that qualifies for free HD, at least for new customers.


----------



## ffemtreed

Davenlr said:


> This isnt a socialist country. Corporations can charge whatever they want, as long as its not during a natural disaster.
> 
> I am more concerned with the oil companies prices than I am $5 a month to DirecTv and FOX. The price of a tank of gas, and food has risen much faster.
> 
> Vote with your wallet. I set a max price of $100/mo for DirecTv. I drop receivers, downgrade my extras every year to keep it at $100. So far I have dropped Sunday Ticket, then two years later, MLB Extra Innings, then the Sports Pak. This year I dropped from Ultimate to Choice Xtra. When it gets to the point where I cant get the channels I watch daily (vs the ones I might watch once a month) for $100 a month, then Ill drop subscription TV altogether.
> 
> If enough people drop stuff, they will get the message. Congress doesnt even need to get involved. They are for the big corporations ripping off the little guy anyway


Absolutely spot on! The last thing this country needs is congress making more laws and starting more investigations. Consumers just need to speak through their wallets. If they don't like the product or price being offered by a company they need to close up their wallet a bit and let that company know why they are closing the wallet.

Our prices probably would be a lot lower if there wasn't so much govt red tape involved in running big corporations.


----------



## TBlazer07

Glen_D said:


> I'm betting Entertainment won't qualify for free HD either, which would be a deal-breaker for me. In fact, Choice XTRA is currently the minimum package that qualifies for free HD, at least for new customers.


 I'd bet you're right which would make it only a net savings of $3 from Choice Extra w/free HD.


----------



## zimm7778

"john262" said:


> I can't believe that there are so many people defending these price increases. Directv is making plenty of money and they don't need to stick us with a price increase. Where is it written in stone that there must be a price increase every year? Here's a concept. What about no price increase this year and no doubling the next? And while we are at it, Congress needs to hold hearings and investigate why the price of programming is going up so fast. Somebody is making a bundle on this whole mess and laughing all the way to the bank. We the American people need to say that enough is enough. No more price increases.


Because some of us believe a corporation can charge whatever it feels like charging since its a free country and you are not forced to have this service, ie having it is not a right. I am seriously considering cutting it off myself. Follow that example. Not asking congress to get involved in something that is none of their business.


----------



## lparsons21

Glen_D said:


> I'm betting Entertainment won't qualify for free HD either, which would be a deal-breaker for me. In fact, Choice XTRA is currently the minimum package that qualifies for free HD, at least for new customers.


I just did a quick config, Choice is the current minimum package for free HD for new customers, not Choice XTRA.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

What do you people want DTV to do? They don't have a wireless business to absorb margin hits. They don't have a broadband business to do it either. They are the premier video provider for a reason, they do it best from a national perspective.

Their programming costs are going up 10% a year (similar to what is happening to Comcast, TWC, Fios, etc) but they are passing on only 4% increases to you to stay competitive. So what does that mean for DTV? MARGIN COMPRESSION. 

It seems some of you want everything for free or to pay very little. Others are asking questions like "what do I get for that 4% increase". Ask DTV that same question, what does DTV get from ESPN's rate increases? HBO's rate increases? FOX's rate increases? If anything, at least DTV is trying to add more value with things like the streaming on the iPad app, launching new satellites, adding more channels (even if they are not the ones YOU want), launching new products. The content providers are still delivering the same stuff (yes, content goes up in price also) but even higher rate increases.

When margin compresson happens, it means less profits. Less profits means less R&D, less cool new stuff, less satellites being launched or more streamlined versions, etc, etc.

The idea of pinning a rate increase to what inflation is or how much your raise was is puzzling. They have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure it makes people feel better with their arguments, but they mean absolutely nothing. When FOX was asking for a 40% increase this year, did any of you get a 40% raise? Of course not. Yet DTV had to come to a deal because the same folks here that are screaming about a price increase were screaming they would leave if DTV didn't get a deal done with FOX. Talk about ironic.

If you want DTV to continue to innovate, continue to add services and be the best television option, then you're going to have to understand the realities of the business world.

Today's Forbes had a good writeup about the reality of what is going on with DIRECTV and others. Here is the key line:

“DirecTV now faces a critical dilemma in the U.S.,” he writes. “Cable operators are offsetting declining video margins with rapid gains in the much higher margin broadband business. DirecTV faces the same rising programming costs, but has no analogous outlet. The company is therefore faced with an unappetizing choice. Stay competitive by accepting the inevitable decline in margins… or raise prices to preserve margins and, in the process, become less and less attractive to price-conscious consumers.”

When ESPN bids billions for Monday Night Football, they don't pay for it. The distributors and advertisers pay for it. When NBC bids billions for the Olympics, the distributors and advertisers pay for it. When HBO sinks $200 million into a series, the distributors pay for it. If you want content, you're going to have to pay for it.


----------



## lparsons21

Actually I think most people understand the reasons behind the rate increase, but OTOH, their pay isn't keeping up. Employers aren't giving pay raises for those that actually do work, only for those that sit in the ivory towers.

The gov't tells us that inflation wasn't there for 2 years, and this past one was only 3.6% or so, yet our lying eyes told us that was bogus everytime we filled car with gas or bought food. The gov't told us that because many things in gov't are keyed to COLA and they don't want to pay more out to us ex-worker drones. After twiddling that for many years to keep the raises down, now they want to change the formula to make it even more difficult to see raises. And that isn't Republican vs Democrat issue, that is just our politicos taking care of their real bosses.

Excuse my rant please!!


----------



## ffemtreed

ChicagoBlue said:


> What do you people want DTV to do? They don't have a wireless business to absorb margin hits. They don't have a broadband business to do it either. They are the premier video provider for a reason, they do it best from a national perspective.
> 
> Their programming costs are going up 10% a year (similar to what is happening to Comcast, TWC, Fios, etc) but they are passing on only 4% increases to you to stay competitive. So what does that mean for DTV? MARGIN COMPRESSION.
> 
> It seems some of you want everything for free or to pay very little. Others are asking questions like "what do I get for that 4% increase". Ask DTV that same question, what does DTV get from ESPN's rate increases? HBO's rate increases? FOX's rate increases? If anything, at least DTV is trying to add more value with things like the streaming on the iPad app, launching new satellites, adding more channels (even if they are not the ones YOU want), launching new products. The content providers are still delivering the same stuff (yes, content goes up in price also) but even higher rate increases.
> 
> When margin compresson happens, it means less profits. Less profits means less R&D, less cool new stuff, less satellites being launched or more streamlined versions, etc, etc.
> 
> The idea of pinning a rate increase to what inflation is or how much your raise was is puzzling. They have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure it makes people feel better with their arguments, but they mean absolutely nothing. When FOX was asking for a 40% increase this year, did any of you get a 40% raise? Of course not. Yet DTV had to come to a deal because the same folks here that are screaming about a price increase were screaming they would leave if DTV didn't get a deal done with FOX. Talk about ironic.
> 
> If you want DTV to continue to innovate, continue to add services and be the best television option, then you're going to have to understand the realities of the business world.
> 
> Today's Forbes had a good writeup about the reality of what is going on with DIRECTV and others. Here is the key line:
> 
> "DirecTV now faces a critical dilemma in the U.S.," he writes. "Cable operators are offsetting declining video margins with rapid gains in the much higher margin broadband business. DirecTV faces the same rising programming costs, but has no analogous outlet. The company is therefore faced with an unappetizing choice. Stay competitive by accepting the inevitable decline in margins&#8230; or raise prices to preserve margins and, in the process, become less and less attractive to price-conscious consumers."
> 
> When ESPN bids billions for Monday Night Football, they don't pay for it. The distributors and advertisers pay for it. When NBC bids billions for the Olympics, the distributors and advertisers pay for it. When HBO sinks $200 million into a series, the distributors pay for it. If you want content, you're going to have to pay for it.


I think you are making a lot of assumptions on what content providers are getting paid. Unless you have inside access, none of us know the details of these agreements. Did the programming costs really go up 10% last year? Just because the programming cost might have went up 10% that doesn't mean much, how was overall revenue last year? Did more people order more PPV to offset the cost therefore not cutting into profits at all? Did more people pay the HD fee? Did the advertisers also increase their payments to DTV? million different aspects of the businsess to single out line items. BOTTOM line is DTV had record profits last year when you factor all aspects of the business. They aren't taking any cuts in the margin.

You also said DTV isn't getting anything more from Fox and whomever, but in the past few years DTV has gotten more from them, like HD feeds, rights to distribute on demand, rights to stream to mobile devices, right for the to go programming (NOMAD). So there is something in there for everyone.

I don't think anyone here is tying their earnings to what increase should be, I do see a lot of people saying they need to weight the cost benefit of having DTV or not so having these large increases like that during the down economy might not be the best business move in the long run for DTV. People struggling are evaluating every dime they spend.

That article you pointed out pretty much said what I said earlier, that DTV's current business model is a losing proposition compared to other providers. I have a feeling the content providers are trying to cut out he middle men (like DTV, Dishnetwork, FIOS and etc) and use IP tv to distribute it themselves. I think they are getting companies like netflix to be their guinea pig to make online streaming popular and work out all the details before they crush them with price increases. Why do you think comcast was SO hard up to get NBC??????? Comcrap knows which direction this thing is going.


----------



## harsh

kfcrosby said:


> Me thinks it is time for the "Netflix" effect.


Is that the one where they fired a plasma cannon on their own foot with the "breakup" or the one where they're in a pissing match with HBO?

The movie theaters are still doing a yeoman's job of keeping Netflix in business with their astronomical rates but if Netflix doesn't get ahold of the tiller, they're going to jibe again.


----------



## Mike Greer

Can't keep going the way it's going. I'm in the 'why do I pay so much for so little' camp. We watch the networks, Showtime and maybe 3 other channels. I suspect the masses are a lot the same way. For the insane amount we pay every month it is just isn't worth it. Not a matter of 'if' we can pay but 'why'. 

Except for Sunday Ticket it would only be a minor inconvenience to just bag it and got OTA with Tivo and pocket $100 bucks or so a month. I'd say there is a pretty good chance that in the not too distant future I'll be able to stream Showtime - bypassing DirecTV all together. I can already do Sunday Ticket with a PS3.... 

I'm afraid DirecTV and Dish Network are just not going to be able to survive - at least not at their current profit levels. God help them if other providers come up with a decent DVR!


----------



## tigerwillow1

> It seems some of you want everything for free or to pay very little. Others are asking questions like "what do I get for that 4% increase".


Maybe some are asking "why do I have to pay more for ESPN when I don't want it and never watch it?" Maybe DirecTV isn't the "bad guy" here, but they strike the deal with the content providers. The only way the consumer can send a message to the content provider is via D*, and yes, being in the middle they will suffer. For whatever reason, D* chose to force almost every customer to pay for channels they don't care about, and they have to live with the consequences of that decision. Those that watch a lot of TV think D* is a great value and those that think otherwise are cheapskates. Those that watch only a few channels think they are getting fleeced and the others are spendthrifts. D* might have to figure out how to please both types of customers to survive in the long term.


----------



## Glen_D

lparsons21 said:


> I just did a quick config, Choice is the current minimum package for free HD for new customers, not Choice XTRA.


Hmmm. Not what I'm seeing.

When I go to DirecTV's website, it states: "Free HD in every room with auto bill pay. CHOICE XTRA package or above".

Maybe the offers vary, depending on territory?


----------



## lparsons21

Glen_D said:


> Hmmm. Not what I'm seeing.
> 
> When I go to DirecTV's website, it states: "Free HD in every room with auto bill pay. CHOICE XTRA package or above".
> 
> Maybe the offers vary, depending on territory?


Could be. I keep a user account on my computer with a virgin browser so they don't know who it is too. I think that can make a difference, but I don't why it shows for me and doesn't for you in any definitive way.


----------



## dpeters11

tigerwillow1 said:


> Maybe some are asking "why do I have to pay more for ESPN when I don't want it and never watch it?" Maybe DirecTV isn't the "bad guy" here, but they strike the deal with the content providers. The only way the consumer can send a message to the content provider is via D*, and yes, being in the middle they will suffer. For whatever reason, D* chose to force almost every customer to pay for channels they don't care about, and they have to live with the consequences of that decision. Those that watch a lot of TV think D* is a great value and those that think otherwise are cheapskates. Those that watch only a few channels think they are getting fleeced and the others are spendthrifts. D* might have to figure out how to please both types of customers to survive in the long term.


I don't think it's that easy. If Disney requires ESPN be a main channel, and won't negotiate that point, DirecTV would either have to accept that or drop them completely. That would be much worse for DirecTV. If you could get a package without ESPN, would that affect the price of A&E, History, Lifetime etc? ESPN is a very expensive channel, I see the allure of not getting it. But in reality, going to an ala carte system won't work out the way people think.


----------



## Shades228

dpeters11 said:


> I don't think it's that easy. If Disney requires ESPN be a main channel, and won't negotiate that point, DirecTV would either have to accept that or drop them completely. That would be much worse for DirecTV. If you could get a package without ESPN, would that affect the price of A&E, History, Lifetime etc? ESPN is a very expensive channel, I see the allure of not getting it. But in reality, going to an ala carte system won't work out the way people think.


ESPN has a minimum number of viewers built into it's contract with every carrier. This means that its going to be on the most popular packages. This is not uncommon with the top viewed channels.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

dpeters11 said:


> I don't think it's that easy. If Disney requires ESPN be a main channel, and won't negotiate that point, DirecTV would either have to accept that or drop them completely. That would be much worse for DirecTV. If you could get a package without ESPN, would that affect the price of A&E, History, Lifetime etc? ESPN is a very expensive channel, I see the allure of not getting it. But in reality, going to an ala carte system won't work out the way people think.


But say makeing ESPN like HBO is not Ala carte but at say $5-$6+ a sub it's a lot of the price.

Theme packs are the way to go.

RSN channel maybe $1-$3 a sub based on area areas with more then give people even more choice if they want (kind of have this is limited way in some are ares.

Disney channel used to be add on as well.

Just having a basic sports pack for say $10-$15 (espn, local RSN's other like NBCSP, big ten, and so on) and then maybe a more sports at $5 more the sports pack non RSN channels + maybe red zone. and then for $7 to have a out of market RSN pack.

There is also a old FCC law saying that you can get Limited Basic and add channels like HBO to it.


----------



## zimm7778

I think if you want to fight ESPN (and others) rising costs you do the following as a provider. Be honest about what they pay for the ESPN channels, not ABC Family, not Disney, just the ESPN group. Then explain the EXACT increase they want and what it cost per provider and how much of that is passed on in the bill. Then tell subs it's up to us, if most of you want it we will renew. If most of you want us to hold our ground and fight it, even if it means the channels disappearing for awhile, we'll do the too and since in that instance we aren't paying for those channels we will lower your bill by that much. Then be even more forthright in saying we will still occasionally have to raise our rates, just remember it would be even higher if we had given in to their demands.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

ESPN will ALWAYS be part of every basic package. End of story.


----------



## jeffgbailey

Davenlr said:


> Of course, since SELECT doesnt quality for free HD, by the time you add on the $10 for HD, you are almost up to CHOICE anyway. And Im betting Entertainment wont quality for free HD either.


actually if you drop to Select it DOES qualify for free HD. Plenty of threads where folks have got it just by asking


----------



## Glen_D

Glen_D said:


> Hmmm. Not what I'm seeing.
> 
> When I go to DirecTV's website, it states: "Free HD in every room with auto bill pay. CHOICE XTRA package or above".
> 
> Maybe the offers vary, depending on territory?





lparsons21 said:


> Could be. I keep a user account on my computer with a virgin browser so they don't know who it is too. I think that can make a difference, but I don't why it shows for me and doesn't for you in any definitive way.


Coincidentally, I got a flyer in the mail yesterday from DirecTV. It states the same thing as what I got on the website: Choice EXTRA minimum requirement for free HD.


jeffgbailey said:


> actually if you drop to Select it DOES qualify for free HD. Plenty of threads where folks have got it just by asking


Problem is, unofficial things like that are at the discretion of the CSR/Retention Dept., and may not be available to all customers.


----------



## mark40511

For those who intend on using your broadband connection for TV entertainment so you will not have the bill each month, have you considered broadband caps?

I've read some ISP's are implementing this to 150 GB per/mo.


----------



## Davenlr

jeffgbailey said:


> actually if you drop to Select it DOES qualify for free HD. Plenty of threads where folks have got it just by asking


There are two SELECTs. The 44.99 one (the one you can get without going through retention) does NOT quality. I had free HD, and they started charging me $10 immediately after switching to that package. When I called, they would not budge. I ended up going back to Choice Extra.


----------



## harsh

ChicagoBlue said:


> What do you people want DTV to do? They don't have a wireless business to absorb margin hits. They don't have a broadband business to do it either.


This is why there is a process call acquisition. DIRECTV LA recently announced some manner of broadband offering.


----------



## mavs-fan

Has the full list of stations moving from Choice Xtra to Choice Ultimate on 2/9 been released yet? It will be very interesting to see how many channels are moving to the higher tier package.


----------



## Mike Greer

mark40511 said:


> For those who intend on using your broadband connection for TV entertainment so you will not have the bill each month, have you considered broadband caps?
> 
> I've read some ISP's are implementing this to 150 GB per/mo.


The caps are a factor no doubt. They also vary from provider to provider and can/do change.

The biggest issue I see is for cable Internet service - they have a clear conflict of interest. They would love to cap your bandwidth to force you to use their own video services rather than Netflix, Hulu or DirecTV On-Demand.

Hopefully there will be enough subscriber backlash to keep the Internet Service Providers in check!


----------



## ffdoug

I still have total choice plus programming.:lol:


----------



## SledgeHammer

ChicagoBlue said:


> less R&D, less cool new stuff, less satellites being launched or more streamlined versions, etc, etc.


What cool stuff are you talking about specifically? The new Tivo ? WHDVR? Locals for obscure places like Wormlick, Montana? The HD GUI? SWiM?

Not a single one of those things does anything for me or my viewing pleasure.


----------



## Jon J

ffdoug said:


> I still have total choice plus programming.:lol:


So do I and what will actually be included in it (or its replacement) will be very interesting since what I actually receive and what the DirecTV website programming packages list do not match.


----------



## bigtom

"SledgeHammer" said:


> What cool stuff are you talking about specifically? The new Tivo ? WHDVR? Locals for obscure places like Wormlick, Montana? The HD GUI? SWiM?
> 
> Not a single one of those things does anything for me or my viewing pleasure.


You may not directly benefit from utilization, but R&D is an investment in attracting and retaining customers or reducing DIRECTVs costs. The increased revenue can mean more to invest in aquiring new channels, more HD, improvements in customer service or field services.

I don't know what may be important to each individual, but there are indirect benefits of R&D to everyone.


----------



## Satelliteracer

The NFL media partners just signed deals with the NFL from 2013 to 2022 which will deliver the NFL $28 billion. That's a 63% increase in programmer payments. Just one small example of what is going on.


I know at DIRECTV, the single largest cost is programming costs and it's not even close. So when that line item goes up by 10%, it's going to have a huge impact. Every MVPD is feeling it because programming costs are hitting everyone. Yes, even hitting OTT alternatives like Netflix


----------



## TheRatPatrol

"Satelliteracer" said:


> The NFL media partners just signed deals with the NFL from 2013 to 2022 which will deliver the NFL $28 billion. That's a 63% increase in programmer payments. Just one small example of what is going on.
> 
> I know at DIRECTV, the single largest cost is programming costs and it's not even close. So when that line item goes up by 10%, it's going to have a huge impact. Every MVPD is feeling it because programming costs are hitting everyone. Yes, even hitting OTT alternatives like Netflix


MVPD? OTT?


----------



## CouchTater

I recently retired and am having to find ways to cut back now that I'm living on a fixed income. It looks like Directv may become a casulty. I've been with them since their first year but I rarely watch anything beyond the regular network channels and the other few I watch I can probably catch on Netflix or something at a cheaper monthly rate. Companies don't seem to realize the economy is still in the dumpster and people are hurting.


----------



## Alan Gordon

TheRatPatrol said:


> MVPD? OTT?


I believe MVPD is Multi-Video Provider... I'm blanking on the D part...

OTT.... off the t???? I don't know. I'm assuming it has nothing to do with OPP... 



CouchTater said:


> Companies don't seem to realize the economy is still in the dumpster and people are hurting.


That's part of the problem... companies like Time Warner, Comcast Universal, Disney, Fox, etc. are hurting too, so they try to make up for the lost revenue, hitting the providers offering their services in the pocket, which leads to DirecTV and other MVPDs having to raise their prices...

When someone hurts, we all hurt... 

~Alan


----------



## mreposter

Satelliteracer said:


> The NFL media partners just signed deals with the NFL from 2013 to 2022 which will deliver the NFL $28 billion. That's a 63% increase in programmer payments. Just one small example of what is going on.


Just because Disney, Fox, NBC and CBS are willing to dramatically increase their payments to the NFL doesn't mean that Directv and the other distributors have to go along with these extreme price increases.

What if the networks had doubled their payments or tripled them? If no one is willing to say no, then the price will just continue to skyrocket. Customers who say they want this programming no matter what the price shouldn't be surprised when the price for this must-have programming goes through the roof.


----------



## dpeters11

OTT - Over The Top, basically video on demand.


----------



## Deels1

MVPD = multichannel video programming distributors. Thank's for the dissertation must-carry research flashback SR!


----------



## loudo

It would be interesting to know if the DirecTV's NFL ST is taking in enough money to pay the NFL Contract they have. It seems hard to believe they could take in a Billion Dollars a year, to pay for it, or are we all paying for it in a small way.


----------



## Shades228

loudo said:


> It would be interesting to know if the DirecTV's NFL ST is taking in enough money to pay the NFL Contract they have. It seems hard to believe they could take in a Billion Dollars a year, to pay for it, or are we all paying for it in a small way.


You haven't looked at what the commercial accounts pay for it. With that said if it draws in new customers then part of their revenue is included.


----------



## Davenlr

To break even (at full price) it would take about 2.7 million subscribers to Sunday Ticket.
That does not seem to be an unusually high number, considering the total number of subscribers, and the number of people who post on here that they would leave DirecTv if it werent for Sunday Ticket.


----------



## dpeters11

And I honestly think consumers aren't the main focus for Sunday Ticket. You've got to figure in bars and restaurants.


----------



## loudo

dpeters11 said:


> And I honestly think consumers aren't the main focus for Sunday Ticket. You've got to figure in bars and restaurants.


That is true, they get big bucks for them. Price is based on the occupancy of the bar of restraurant.


----------



## Blurayfan

"Mike Greer" said:


> The caps are a factor no doubt. They also vary from provider to provider and can/do change.
> 
> The biggest issue I see is for cable Internet service - they have a clear conflict of interest. They would love to cap your bandwidth to force you to use their own video services rather than Netflix, Hulu or DirecTV On-Demand.
> 
> Hopefully there will be enough subscriber backlash to keep the Internet Service Providers in check!


Comcast has a cap of 250 GB a calendar month. However they claim they only go after those users who have the biggest bandwidth usage above the cap and 99% of their customers don't use that much data.


----------



## dpeters11

Right, at one point Ruby Tuesday was the single biggest subscriber, with over 700 locations. Even if they were charged $2000 a location (don't know if that's close to the real price for a chain that averages about 170 capacity), that's 1.4 million for one customer.


----------



## dpeters11

"Blurayfan" said:


> Comcast has a cap of 250 GB a calendar month. However they claim they only go after those users who have the biggest bandwidth usage above the cap and 99% of their customers don't use that much data.


Frontier used the same argument with their 5gb limit. That didn't go over all that well.


----------



## Araxen

loudo said:


> It would be interesting to know if the DirecTV's NFL ST is taking in enough money to pay the NFL Contract they have. It seems hard to believe they could take in a Billion Dollars a year, to pay for it, or are we all paying for it in a small way.


I'd make a bet that everybody pays for it that is a Directv sub. $10 HD fee, mirror fee's are some of the stuff they hide it in.


----------



## loudo

Here is a link to their Sports package pricing, for bars and restaurants.
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/business/bars_restaurants/sports


----------



## dpeters11

But as stated, it's not hard to come up with a billion dollars a year in revenue for Sunday Ticket, plus money to pay other costs related to it, plus profits.


----------



## Satelliteracer

"mreposter" said:


> Just because Disney, Fox, NBC and CBS are willing to dramatically increase their payments to the NFL doesn't mean that Directv and the other distributors have to go along with these extreme price increases.
> 
> What if the networks had doubled their payments or tripled them? If no one is willing to say no, then the price will just continue to skyrocket. Customers who say they want this programming no matter what the price shouldn't be surprised when the price for this must-have programming goes through the roof.


Maybe, but if ESPN comes down what happens to that provider? Look at what happened during the FOX dispute. You are correct that the distributors don't have to go along, but their are repercussions (good and bad) with making those decisions. Let's also not forget that the distributors often don't go along. Fox wanted a 40% increase and Directv said no. The battle then begins. MSG and Time Warner are going through me now. Dish lost a ton of customers when hey told Fox no and the handles came off the air for 28 days.


----------



## DogLover

Araxen said:


> I'd make a bet that everybody pays for it that is a Directv sub. $10 HD fee, mirror fee's are some of the stuff they hide it in.


I'd be inclined to take that bet.


----------



## renbutler

CouchTater said:


> Companies don't seem to realize the economy is still in the dumpster and people are hurting.


I suppose they could keep their revenue stream flat and cut back on their employee base, but then those people would be hurting too.

Don't forget: TV is a luxury. If people are really hurting, luxuries should be the first thing on the chopping block. Go for it. I would guess that you would benefit personally as well as financially.


----------



## paulman182

renbutler said:


> Don't forget: TV is a luxury. If people are really hurting, luxuries should be the first thing on the chopping block. Go for it. I would guess that you would benefit personally as well as financially.


Satellite TV is still one of the least-expensive luxuries there is, IMHO, when you calculate all the hours of entertainment it can provide.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Satelliteracer said:


> The NFL media partners just signed deals with the NFL from 2013 to 2022 which will deliver the NFL $28 billion. That's a 63% increase in programmer payments. Just one small example of what is going on.
> 
> I know at DIRECTV, the single largest cost is programming costs and it's not even close. So when that line item goes up by 10%, it's going to have a huge impact. Every MVPD is feeling it because programming costs are hitting everyone. Yes, even hitting OTT alternatives like Netflix


but I thought the Economy was bad? lol

funny how no matter how bad the Economy got there was always one constant, and that was networks/studios getting away with raising programming costs.

Sucks for providers b/c they are stuck in a hard place, since all the providers are on different cycles of when contracts are set to renew. B/c of this they have a slight tough time giving the networks a harder hand. If they try to stand firm alone ppl end up leaving their service which costs them more $ anyway, so they are forced to pay up some most of the time. 
Now if you could get it to where TWC, Dish, and DIRECTV all had their contracts with providers run out at the same time then they could do something about the raising costs as there would be less chance ppl would leave for another provider since they all would be going through the same thing.

has there ever been a time when ANY network contract was up and the new one was LESS? Like if DIRECTV showed noone watched X channel, so they don't want to pay as much for it next term? or they typically end up bundling those things with the bigger players at those times?

just find it interesting this seems like the one group in the economy that has gone unfazed. Not DIRECTV but the networks or their talent.


----------



## mreposter

Satelliteracer said:


> Maybe, but if ESPN comes down what happens to that provider? Look at what happened during the FOX dispute. You are correct that the distributors don't have to go along, but their are repercussions (good and bad) with making those decisions. Let's also not forget that the distributors often don't go along. Fox wanted a 40% increase and Directv said no. The battle then begins. MSG and Time Warner are going through me now. Dish lost a ton of customers when hey told Fox no and the handles came off the air for 28 days.


We're pretty much in agreement here. Sports programming is unique in that a large percentage of pay-tv customers make their purchasing decision based on sports programming. The minute the sports programming they want is unavailable they will switch providers. They may complain about the price, but in the end they will pay whatever is required to get the sports programming they want.

With sports, the leagues have the vast majority of the power at the negotiating table and the networks know that whatever the cost is for the broadcast rights it can easily be passed along to the distributors and ultimately the customers.


----------



## ehilbert1

I don't know about anyone else but in the summer time. My wife and I are Netflix junkies. So I usually suspend our service in June, July and some of August. That right there saves us a bundle so when they raise the prices every year its ok because we still end up saving about $300 give or take a few dollars every year. 

My two weeknesses is Shark week and the Packers. My brother in law lives in Wisconsin. I'm a huge Packer fan so I bought a sling box and shipped it to him. He has it on one of the DVR's he hardly uses. So during football season I watch a lot of games on my iMac. That way I don't have to pay for Sunday ticket and guess what.... I can watch Shark week during the summer while my DirecTV is suspended saving us money. I recommend everyone getting a sling box. Besides paying for apps on my Android Phone and my Motorola Xoom tablet its really worth it.


By the way lets face it every year its going to go up and up and up. The question is when will it be enough? Like a lot of people have said prices go up but a lot of peoples paychecks do not.


----------



## mws192

When can we expect to see the new programming packages? February?

I'm really curious to know if Fox Soccer is moving.


----------



## davidpo

Guess their profit numbers wasnt good enough for their stockholders hence the $1 increase in dvr fee. Just like the $3 fee for whdvr for a service that costs them nothi.ng once implemented. Luckly me and my wife have decent jobs,and no kids. In another 5 years I have a feeling the pay tv scene will be in for a big wakeup call. If rates continue on this ever increasing trend.


----------



## Satelliteracer

davidpo said:


> Guess their profit numbers wasnt good enough for their stockholders hence the $1 increase in dvr fee. Just like the $3 fee for whdvr for a service that costs them nothi.ng once implemented. Luckly me and my wife have decent jobs,and no kids. In another 5 years I have a feeling the pay tv scene will be in for a big wakeup call. If rates continue on this ever increasing trend.


You are incorrect on both counts to suggest those services cost D* nothing. Far from it.


----------



## mjwagner

Looking at DirecTV's communications concerning the upcoming 2/9 price increase and package changes/renaming I have been unable to find any mention at all of a new Choice Xtra Package. Based on the material that I have seen they are renaming both the current Choice Xtra and Total Choice Plus packages to Choice Xtra Classic which will be available to existing (lagacy) customers only for $68.99 per month. Choice Xtra Classic will not be available for anyone who does not altready have either Choice Xtra or Total Choice Plus on or before 2/9. I have seen posts here claiming that DirecTV will be announcing a new Choice Xtra package prior to 2/9 but I have seen nothing to that effect from DirecTV. Is there some communication that I missed?

I find it very strange that the package that DirecTV touts on their own website to be:

"Our most popular entertainment package..." 

will no longer be available.


----------



## Davenlr

Yea, from what I read in the email, you will have to jump from CHOICE to ULTIMATE with no in-between. Also no mention of the "Entertainment" package. Guess they are waiting until the last minute.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

mjwagner said:


> Looking at DirecTV's communications concerning the upcoming 2/9 price increase and package changes/renaming I have been unable to find any mention at all of a new Choice Xtra Package. Based on the material that I have seen they are renaming both the current Choice Xtra and Total Choice Plus packages to Choice Xtra Classic which will be available to existing (lagacy) customers only for $68.99 per month. Choice Xtra Classic will not be available for anyone who does not altready have either Choice Xtra or Total Choice Plus on or before 2/9. I have seen posts here claiming that DirecTV will be announcing a new Choice Xtra package prior to 2/9 but I have seen nothing to that effect from DirecTV. Is there some communication that I missed?
> 
> I find it very strange that the package that DirecTV touts on their own website to be:
> 
> "Our most popular entertainment package..."
> 
> will no longer be available.


I think the new Choice Xtra Package will have less channels then the old one.


----------



## mjwagner

"JoeTheDragon" said:


> I think the new Choice Xtra Package will have less channels then the old one.


What new Choice Xtra package?


----------



## JcT21

JoeTheDragon said:


> I think the new Choice Xtra Package will have less channels then the old one.


you are probably right. except for the announcement of cloo moving, i hope the xtra package stays the same.


----------



## Davenlr

JcT21 said:


> you are probably right. except for the announcement of cloo moving, i hope the xtra package stays the same.


Well, history shows Directv has pretty much always kept their grandfathered packages intact...Total Choice Plus having the same exact channels as Total Choice Extra, which cost more. To date, to my recollection, with the exception of the above mentioned channel, DirecTv has never removed a channel from a grandfathered package (and has actually added new channels to it). I think there would be quite an uproar if they were to move any popular channels you currently get with your package, to a higher priced package. They could do so, under their TOS, but it would not be very good PR.

It will be interesting to see what they are really planning. My guess is the difference between Choice and Choice Extra included so many extra channels for $5, that they really did not have that many Choice customers.

While it was announced there will be a "Choice Extra" and "Choice Extra Classic", their mailing today made no reference to either Choice Extra or Entertainment.

The price difference now between Choice and Ultimate really more accurately reflects the price addition for those extra channels between the two.

I really do not know why the "Entertainment package" and the rumored new "Choice Extra" package was not listed on their email, unless those will only be made available to new customers after the 9th.


----------



## lokar

I have the PlusHD DVR package which I haven't seen mentioned on any of the above lists. Did I just miss something or what is going on with this?


----------



## Blurayfan

lokar said:


> I have the PlusHD DVR package which I haven't seen mentioned on any of the above lists. Did I just miss something or what is going on with this?


The package is increasing to $86.99.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2925973#post2925973


----------



## ChicagoBlue

ffemtreed said:


> I think you are making a lot of assumptions on what content providers are getting paid. Unless you have inside access, none of us know the details of these agreements. Did the programming costs really go up 10% last year? Just because the programming cost might have went up 10% that doesn't mean much, how was overall revenue last year? Did more people order more PPV to offset the cost therefore not cutting into profits at all? Did more people pay the HD fee? Did the advertisers also increase their payments to DTV? million different aspects of the businsess to single out line items. BOTTOM line is DTV had record profits last year when you factor all aspects of the business. They aren't taking any cuts in the margin.


I've negotiated these deals in this industry for many years, believe me I know what many of the particulars are. Yes, the programming costs REALLY are going up 10% and it's not just at DTV. Let me put it in perspective for you. DTV will pay more than $10 billion in programming costs this year if I were to wager.

On your margin argument, DTV is taking cuts on their programming margins so they have to find other ways to keep that margin stable. Afterall, those profits go into things like new research and development and bringing new products to the market which people here also complain about. You can't have it both ways.



ffemtreed said:


> You also said DTV isn't getting anything more from Fox and whomever, but in the past few years DTV has gotten more from them, like HD feeds, rights to distribute on demand, rights to stream to mobile devices, right for the to go programming (NOMAD). So there is something in there for everyone.


Past years was the key to your sentence. What did FOX and whomever deliver to them this year for them to demand a 40% increase? Nothing close to the value that would yield 40%.



ffemtreed said:


> I don't think anyone here is tying their earnings to what increase should be, I do see a lot of people saying they need to weight the cost benefit of having DTV or not so having these large increases like that during the down economy might not be the best business move in the long run for DTV. People struggling are evaluating every dime they spend.


No one is disputing that people are struggling, however plenty of people are making the argument about COLA and rate of inflation which has nothing to do with it. When I negotiated a deal sometimes it was for a length of 10 years. The deal had built in escalators of rate increases often at 6% or maybe higher. Whether the economy was bad, good, depression, recession, whatever, we were getting that 6% rate hike from the distributor every new calendar year. People here have to stop tying COLA to programming deals. They have NOTHING to do with one another. Absolutely nothing. Do you guys realize that DTV is still operating with some deals that go back to the USSB days? That's how long some deals can last.



ffemtreed said:


> That article you pointed out pretty much said what I said earlier, that DTV's current business model is a losing proposition compared to other providers. I have a feeling the content providers are trying to cut out he middle men (like DTV, Dishnetwork, FIOS and etc) and use IP tv to distribute it themselves. I think they are getting companies like netflix to be their guinea pig to make online streaming popular and work out all the details before they crush them with price increases. Why do you think comcast was SO hard up to get NBC??????? Comcrap knows which direction this thing is going.


Of course the content providers would like to do that. There is also reality. There is a reason HBO just told Netflix to go pound sand two weeks ago. The distributors pay ESPN, HBO, Showtime, MTV, etc, etc billions of dollars every year. It's an efficient model and guaranteed source of revenue. A true IPTV solution is years away. Years away. Can you imagine someone in your house watching 4 simultaneous HD streams at one time while also recording several others)? Now extrapolate that to places that are still using dial-up or low DSL. Now factor in the cost of distribution which certainly everyone that owns the pipes are going to have their hands out in a huge way to monetize that distribution. The content providers need the guaranteed revenues and that is currently tied to the existing model. Things will change, but they are years away from changing.

Comcast bought NBC to leverage the programming angle. Comcast has owned channels for years, they just own a much bigger one now that is a national broadcast. They are on both sides of the fence... Distributor and content provider. DTV in a smaller way owns several RSNs, no different but at a much smaller scale.


----------



## BattleScott

ChicagoBlue said:


> On your margin argument, DTV is taking cuts on their programming margins so they have to find other ways to keep that margin stable. Afterall, those profits go into things like new research and development and bringing new products to the market which people here also complain about. You can't have it both ways.


Everything was very well said, but the main problem I have in these threads is the protrayal of the content providers as the bad guys and DirecTV as the innocent middle man forced into these rate increases.

Even if you take out the ~3% increase applied in February of last year, both revenue AND profit margin for 2011 (thru Q3s posted results) would be UP over 2010.

Even through the worst economy in decades, they have yet to post period over period financials without margin growth. That is not the sign of a "cost - challenged" corporation.

I really have no issues with them raising rates, it is their service and I have options. I just wish they (really meaning those that post here on their behalf or in their defense) would stand up and "own" it. Quit trying to make it seem like DirecTV is suffering somehow and is "forced" into making these rate increases every year just to keep up. The quarter they post flat or negative margin growth, then they can cry to me about thier margins being "squeezed"... :nono2:


----------



## renbutler

BattleScott said:


> The quarter they post flat or negative margin growth, then they can cry to me about thier margins being "squeezed"... :nono2:


I'm not squarely on the other side of the issue from you necessarily...

...but don't they owe it to their investors to avoid having a bad quarter? That is, if they anticipate that programming costs will start to hurt the bottom line, shouldn't they be proactive so as not to allow revenues to decrease?

That's how I would try to run a business...


----------



## ffemtreed

BattleScott said:


> Everything was very well said, but the main problem I have in these threads is the protrayal of the content providers as the bad guys and DirecTV as the innocent middle man forced into these rate increases.
> 
> Even if you take out the ~3% increase applied in February of last year, both revenue AND profit margin for 2011 (thru Q3s posted results) would be UP over 2010.
> 
> Even through the worst economy in decades, they have yet to post period over period financials without margin growth. That is not the sign of a "cost - challenged" corporation.
> 
> I really have no issues with them raising rates, it is their service and I have options. I just wish they (really meaning those that post here on their behalf or in their defense) would stand up and "own" it. Quit trying to make it seem like DirecTV is suffering somehow and is "forced" into making these rate increases every year just to keep up. The quarter they post flat or negative margin growth, then they can cry to me about thier margins being "squeezed"... :nono2:


AMEN!!! I said it earlier, we can all speculate on costs and revenue but it doesn't change the bottom line that has to be reported.

The problem here is that upper mgt's bonus's are tied to increase in profits and they will do pretty much anything to make sure they hit these goals at all costs so they can line their pockets.

I have no doubt the providers are trying to raise the prices, but I don't think its nearly as bad as DTV is making it out to be. If it is that bad, then DTV was making money hands over fists before since they only had to raise our rates a little bit to compensate for the HUGE price increases.


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## gomezma1

I got email from d yesterday and they said they were going to increase price by 4% instead of the 10%. But there was no price list.


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## davidpo

Just admit it folks directv is a greedy corporation whos only goal is a ever increasing profit. Their just like every other company who thinks 10 billion profit a year isnt enough,and it must increase year over year. Well least the good thing will be things will be cheaper in the future. There is a reckoning coming for our country that will make the great depression look good.


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## renbutler

:bang :icon_stup


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## BattleScott

ffemtreed said:


> AMEN!!! I said it earlier, we can all speculate on costs and revenue but it doesn't change the bottom line that has to be reported.
> 
> The problem here is that upper mgt's bonus's are tied to increase in profits and they will do pretty much anything to make sure they hit these goals at all costs so they can line their pockets.
> 
> I have no doubt the providers are trying to raise the prices, but I don't think its nearly as bad as DTV is making it out to be. If it is that bad, then DTV was making money hands over fists before since they only had to raise our rates a little bit to compensate for the HUGE price increases.


There are a great many other things tied to those profits as well:

1 - Employee pay increases
2 - Healthcare contribution levels
3 - 401K funding
4 - Staffing levels
5 - Research and development funding
6 - Community / Charitable ventures

etc., etc.

A profittable company is not a bad or evil thing. Traditionally they are not the ones you will read about terminating workers and closing facilities.

Like I said, other than I really don't like paying more for anything, I have no objection to them raising the prices as they see fit. Just stop hiding behind the "skyrocketing porgramming costs" smokescreen.


----------



## Satelliteracer

ffemtreed said:


> I have no doubt the providers are trying to raise the prices, but I don't think its nearly as bad as DTV is making it out to be. If it is that bad, then DTV was making money hands over fists before since they only had to raise our rates a little bit to compensate for the HUGE price increases.


The HUGE price increase is comparable to years past and even smaller than some years. Yes, programming costs are going up about 10%.

The problem I've always had with these debates on companies is the notion that profitable American companies is somehow a bad thing. I guess it comes down to how much profit, but who gets decide that? Rhetorical question, but my point is that there are some industries in this country that have 80% or even 90% margins and people don't even bat an eye. While other companies may have a 10% or 20% margin and it causes a storm.

I, for one, am happy when American companies are profitable. If the companies I buy services from are giving me value for what I am paying for, then I'm happy they are doing well. If they are not, then I go somewhere else with my business. Just my two cents.


----------



## Satelliteracer

BattleScott said:


> There are a great many other things tied to those profits as well:
> 
> 1 - Employee pay increases
> 2 - Healthcare contribution levels
> 3 - 401K funding
> 4 - Staffing levels
> 5 - Research and development funding
> 6 - Community / Charitable ventures
> 
> etc., etc.
> 
> A profittable company is not a bad or evil thing. Traditionally they are not the ones you will read about terminating workers and closing facilities.
> 
> Like I said, other than I really don't like paying more for anything, I have no objection to them raising the prices as they see fit. Just stop hiding behind the "skyrocketing porgramming costs" smokescreen.


I believe the reason they mention programming costs is because it is the one area that is growing at a rate that is nothing compared to any other area. Most of the other items in your list have expected rates of increase over years of doing business. When programmers are asking for 500% increases, 300% increases, 40% increases, etc, etc, with no end in sight on some of these sports deals, it can't be merely a passing footnote. Every distributor is going through threats of channels coming down, or actual channels coming down, etc, etc. In a very public way and it has a real impact.


----------



## Satelliteracer

gomezma1 said:


> I got email from d yesterday and they said they were going to increase price by 4% instead of the 10%. But there was no price list.


There should have been a link in the email to the price list


----------



## renbutler

BattleScott said:


> A profittable company is not a bad or evil thing. Traditionally they are not the ones you will read about terminating workers and closing facilities.





Satelliteracer said:


> The problem I've always had with these debates on companies is the notion that profitable American companies is somehow a bad thing. ... I, for one, am happy when American companies are profitable. If the companies I buy services from are giving me value for what I am paying for, then I'm happy they are doing well. If they are not, then I go somewhere else with my business. Just my two cents.


Thanks, guys. +1

It's really sad that we even have to point these things out. In a free market, money isn't confiscated -- people have to choose to give it. It's a _reward_ for providing a service or product. To blame a company for providing too much of a highly demanded product is ridiculous.


----------



## Skyboss

Alan Gordon said:


> Some of the movies I have, I have seen many times. Others, less so...
> 
> Blu-ray remains the highest quality way to watch those movies.
> 
> If you're the type of person to only watch a movie once, you would not understand it, there wouldn't be a good reason to have a collection.
> 
> ~Alan


Yeah, I've been rather selective on the Blu-ray front. If I didn't watch the DVD more than a few times, it didn't get replaced - I even chucked a few I watched once then put in the file. I'm only down to about 20 DVDs that need replacing (Indiana Jones, Jaws and the like) before the BD collection is complete. Obviously anything new becomes worthwhile will be in the BD format.

On the new package front, if the difference between Entertainment and Choice Xtra is the regional sports channels (sans a few channels I probably don't watch anyway) then it will make for a nice savings from mid October until Baseball starts up in the spring.


----------



## Satelliteracer

renbutler said:


> Thanks, guys. +1
> 
> It's really sad that we even have to point these things out. In a free market, money isn't confiscated -- people have to choose to give it. It's a _reward_ for providing a service or product. To blame a company for providing too much of a highly demanded product is ridiculous.


Here's the flip side

Kodak files for bankruptcy today.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-kodak-bankruptcy-20120119,0,3639082.story?track=rss

Companies have good times and bad times. Some survive and rebuild, some go away permanently. Sad to see, hope they can make a comeback


----------



## mhayes70

BattleScott said:


> There are a great many other things tied to those profits as well:
> 
> 1 - Employee pay increases
> 2 - Healthcare contribution levels
> 3 - 401K funding
> 4 - Staffing levels
> 5 - Research and development funding
> 6 - Community / Charitable ventures
> 
> etc., etc.
> 
> A profittable company is not a bad or evil thing. Traditionally they are not the ones you will read about terminating workers and closing facilities.
> 
> Like I said, other than I really don't like paying more for anything, I have no objection to them raising the prices as they see fit. Just stop hiding behind the "skyrocketing porgramming costs" smokescreen.


I would put an emphasis on Healthcare contribution levels. It is unbelievable what companies have to pay for employees health insurance.


----------



## mreposter

Satelliteracer said:


> Companies have good times and bad times. Some survive and rebuild, some go away permanently. Sad to see, hope they can make a comeback


I don't think anyone here wants to drive Directv out of business, they just want to pay a reasonable price for a good quality service. There's always room for improvement, but I and hopefully most of the folks here think Directv has the quality service part nailed.

Looking at the price increases, Directv tells us that they have been forced to raise customer prices because programmers have been driving up their costs. But then when you look at their quarterly reports you see increasing profits and improving margins. That tells me that Directv isn't just increasing prices to cover programming costs, but is pocketing some of that money to improve it's own financial situation. So blaming all of the price increases on the networks isn't entirely true.


----------



## Laxguy

BattleScott said:


> I really have no issues with them raising rates, it is their service and I have options. I just wish they (really meaning those that post here on their behalf or in their defense) would stand up and "own" it. Quit trying to make it seem like DirecTV is suffering somehow and is "forced" into making these rate increases every year just to keep up. The quarter they post flat or negative margin growth, then they can cry to me about thier margins being "squeezed"... :nono2:


Margin growth or squeeze? We don't have access to those figures, but if you're talking about net income going flat or negative, raising rates is one way to keep that from happening. And management will want to do the rate raising before earnings take a hit if they want to stay at the helm.

Neither apologizing nor agonizing over rate increases; it's just business.


----------



## Laxguy

mreposter said:


> Looking at the price increases, Directv tells us that they have been forced to raise customer prices because programmers have been driving up their costs. But then when you look at their quarterly reports you see increasing profits and improving margins. That tells me that Directv isn't just increasing prices to cover programming costs, but is pocketing some of that money to improve it's own financial situation. So blaming all of the price increases on the networks isn't entirely true.


I don't believe they've done the latter. Could be wrong, but then someone will gladly post an excerpt from the company to prove me wrong.


----------



## BattleScott

"Laxguy" said:


> Margin growth or squeeze? We don't have access to those figures, but if you're talking about net income going flat or negative, raising rates is one way to keep that from happening. And management will want to do the rate raising before earnings take a hit if they want to stay at the helm.
> 
> Neither apologizing nor agonizing over rate increases; it's just business.


Sure we do. They post them every quarter, in very extensive detail.


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## Drew2k

And it's not enough to post profits and have revenue in the billions, corporations now also have to beat earnings projections to keep their share prices up. Google just took a hit on Wall Street for failing to meet projections for the first time in many quarters. It's crazy how ridiculously fragile everything seems to be...


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## kymikes

Yes, and if you go back to Marketing 101, the customer dictates how much 'profit' is reasonable since if the provider is 'gouging' their customers, the customer will take their business elsewhere. In this market, there are many ways to get TV (entertainment) services so DIRECTV doesn't have any 'exclusive' on their services. If you feel they are making an 'excessive' profit, you have the option to take your business elsewhere. This gets tempered by Federal, State and local regulations giving some exclusives (OTA bandwidth, municipal cable TV exclusives, satellite bandwidth allocations, etc.) but most of these services do have some alternatives.

Therefore, if you believe in free markets, you have met the enemy and it is you! Just my opinion.


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## Carolina

I have had Directv since 1995. I loved it then and I still love it now  I'll put up with the price increase.


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## Laxguy

BattleScott said:


> Sure we do. They post them every quarter, in very extensive detail.


Is this to what you refer?



> Broadcast programming and other:
> Three months '10 Three months '11 Six Months '10 Six months '11
> In $ millions
> 
> Broadcast programming and other
> 
> 2,693 2,366 5,286 4,680
> 
> Subscriber service expenses
> 
> 466 407 915 802
> 
> Broadcast operations expenses
> 
> 96 85 190 173
> 
> Sorry, the formatting is horrible and a couple tries didn't fix it. At any rate the link is this sentence.


----------



## BattleScott

"Laxguy" said:


> Is this to what you refer?


Well, those are only the programming cost figures. But it looks like they are from the right source. The same reports also detail revenue, profit and margins for the same periods.


----------



## Laxguy

BattleScott said:


> Well, those are only the programming cost figures. But it looks like they are from the right source. The same reports also detail revenue, profit and margins for the same periods.


OK, we're moving forward! I just don't see how one can get the cost of acquisition of programming specific enough to translate into how our prices go up.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Looks like that $5 total increase here could break the bank.

I'm going to sell my car...remove all other appliances...walk instead of drive...turn in all my phones...eat crackers and drink water only...wash clothes only once a week...and turn off the lights except 10 minutes per day...

Oh wait...that might be an over-reaction.


----------



## ffemtreed

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looks like that $5 total increase here could break the bank.
> 
> I'm going to sell my car...remove all other appliances...walk instead of drive...turn in all my phones...eat crackers and drink water only...wash clothes only once a week...and turn off the lights except 10 minutes per day...
> 
> Oh wait...that might be an over-reaction.


That 5 dollar increase is 60 dollars a year. Now compound that with all the previous 5 dollar and misc increases over the past 6 years and my bill went up around 38 dollars a month during that timeframe. That almost 500 bucks a year extra that I was not paying when I initially signed up (No I am not counting promotional pricing). 500 bucks could be a whole weeks worth of pay for some people.

At some point all those little increases add up and will make people look at other options. I am at that breaking point. Its not that the 5 dollars will kill my lifestyle. At some point the ice is going to break.


----------



## BattleScott

Laxguy said:


> OK, we're moving forward! I just don't see how one can get the cost of acquisition of programming specific enough to translate into how our prices go up.


No need to know that, you just need to see what's happening with the margin growth over the same period to evaluate the overall impact of those increased programming costs on the "bottom line". Since margins are growing over the same periods the costs are increasing, it obviously is not as big of a factor in our ever-increasing rates as they want us to believe.

Additionally, only a portion of the period-over-period increase in the programming costs is attributable to rate hikes from the providers. In many cases the provider rates are tied to subscriber count (ESPN) so as the subscriber base goes up, the cost goes up accordingly. Since that portion of the cost growth is already being offset by the additonal revenue growth of those same subscribers, only a portion of that 10% year-over-year cost increase should be considered applicable to the need to raise subscriber rates.


----------



## BattleScott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looks like that $5 total increase here could break the bank.
> 
> I'm going to sell my car...remove all other appliances...walk instead of drive...turn in all my phones...eat crackers and drink water only...wash clothes only once a week...and turn off the lights except 10 minutes per day...
> 
> Oh wait...that might be an over-reaction.


Glad you are doing well enough that you don't need to consider such things. But there are a great many who's household budgets are stretched to the maximum and the $5 might mean the difference between keeping the service or dropping it (at least scaling back anyways). Maybe you could just send them some pictures of all your extra money to make them feel even worse...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

ffemtreed said:


> That 5 dollar increase is 60 dollars a year. Now compound that with all the previous 5 dollar and misc increases over the past 6 years and my bill went up around 38 dollars a month during that timeframe. That almost 500 bucks a year extra that I was not paying when I initially signed up (No I am not counting promotional pricing). 500 bucks could be a whole weeks worth of pay for some people.
> 
> At some point all those little increases add up and will make people look at other options. I am at that breaking point. Its not that the 5 dollars will kill my lifestyle. At some point the ice is going to break.





BattleScott said:


> Glad you are doing well enough that you don't need to consider such things. But there are a great many who's household budgets are stretched to the maximum and the $5 might mean the difference between keeping the service or dropping it (at least scaling back anyways). Maybe you could just send them some pictures of all your extra money to make them feel even worse...


Me thinks you may have over-looked the real point.

Yes - its real money
Yes - the impact varies by customer
Yes - this occurs with almost all providers annually
Yes - there are choices

On the last point (*my* main point done in humor), you can adjust other items to compensate for the increase, reduce services to adjust the costs per bill, consider alternative providers, etc.

Every time...every year...that prices go up....this same dialog comes up - and not just for DirecTV. There is littel doubt no one likes paying more money for something...especially something they use or are accustomed to use.

That said - there are choices.


----------



## Satelliteracer

I took a cab to work yesterday from the airport as I couldn't do long term parking. The 3.1 miles 7 minute trip cost me $19 plus a tip. There was a minimum charge of $19 and I got hit with it. I began to think, that $19 for 7 minutes would buy the average DIRECTV customer about 7 days of 24 hour coverage and more than 170 channels. My point is that much of it is in expectations or what you are comparing it to.

My friends easily have cell phone bills north of $120 a month. For that, they can call people, get their email, etc. For far less than that, they can be entertained 24/7 in all the TV's in their home. For some people, the cell phone is their world and that amount is not a big deal. For others, spending $85 a month on television is important to them and they will continue to do it because the value is there for them. In both examples, not everyone agrees.

It all comes down to value, what you expect to receive, what the tradeoffs are in their individual lives. The average customer at DIRECTV pays less than $3.00 per day for a wide selection of news, sports, movies, entertainment, etc. Less than $3.00 per day. That's less than a gallon of gasoline. That's less than a Starbucks coffee (which, by the way they announced an increase last week as well), etc, etc. 

It's about what people value, what perspective they put on things (how important it is), etc. The answer won't be the same for everyone, nor should it be. People value things differently across the board and one person's $80 television bill is outrageous to some but underpriced for others. One person's $40 broadband is too high for some but fine for others. Etc, etc.


----------



## Satelliteracer

ffemtreed said:


> That 5 dollar increase is 60 dollars a year. Now compound that with all the previous 5 dollar and misc increases over the past 6 years and my bill went up around 38 dollars a month during that timeframe. That almost 500 bucks a year extra that I was not paying when I initially signed up (No I am not counting promotional pricing). 500 bucks could be a whole weeks worth of pay for some people.
> 
> At some point all those little increases add up and will make people look at other options. I am at that breaking point. Its not that the 5 dollars will kill my lifestyle. At some point the ice is going to break.


Did you get anything in additional value for that money spent? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.

I would offer that in the past 6 years D* has added over 

170 HD channels that didn't exist 6 years ago. 
Whole home sharing
Better equipment (faster, more storage capacity, new UI, etc). 
Things like viewing on your iPad, DVR scheduler apps, free programming add-ons (golf mixes, tennis mixes, NASCAR, etc). 
3D Television channels launched
YouTube integration....Pandora coming very soon
HBO Go \ Max Go
More call centers launched so wait times are reduced
New channel launches
DIRECTV Everywhere 
Tons of new local markets launched in the past 6 years
Etc, etc

Some of those may apply to you, some may not. This is where I believe this industry is a little different. When Starbucks raised the price of my coffee two weeks ago was I getting a better coffee? More coffee? Nope. When my electricity rates went up, was I getting better electricity? More efficient electricity? When gas goes up...you get the idea.

No company likes to raise prices because of the fear of alienating customers. In my world, at least, I've found that this industry by and large at least tries to innovate and provide some additional value along with those price increases. First and foremost the price increase is there to offset increased expenses, mostly in the form of programming costs but that hasn't stopped many television distributors from trying to deliver a better experience and better product along the way. Just my opinion, albeit a bias one.


----------



## Davenlr

If you guys would quit giving away the store to new customers, and be a little innovative with your current customers (like allowing them to buy an HR24 online, order an HR34, etc) instead of getting whatever is shipped out, you could charge a nice price and make some money. How about a current customer only deal....New HR24 with 2TB internal hard drive). Bet lots of people would buy that. HR34 with 2TB upgrade? But nope, we have to order from a retailer and totally bypass DirecTv to get what we want. But new customers get just about anything free, and a package price cut to boot. Current customers with money ready to spend, get nothing.

Red Zone....wont sell it...but give it away to those that complain? That doesnt make a bit of sense.

Lots of ways to make money to offset those pesky price increases from the programmers, instead of raising rates.


----------



## mreposter

Most of the people that I know that have $120+ cell phone bills spend more time on their cell phones than they do watching tv. They're talking, texting, surfing the web and running apps constantly. 

And hey, that cell phone service isn't only available 24/7, it's also available just about everywhere you go. Those 170+ Directv channels still aren't available as an everywhere service. 

Yeah, every product and service has a value that is unique to the individual. Some people prefer 99 cent cheese burgers from McDonalds, some people prefer to spend 8 bucks at Chilis.


----------



## Davenlr

mreposter said:


> Most of the people that I know that have $120+ cell phone bills spend more time on their cell phones than they do watching tv. They're talking, texting, surfing the web and running apps constantly. \


Never understood why someone would pay $120+ a month for a cell phone when Straight Talk is $50 a month for unlimited everything. Just to get the Iphone I guess.


----------



## mavs-fan

Davenlr said:


> Never understood why someone would pay $120+ a month for a cell phone when Straight Talk is $50 a month for unlimited everything. Just to get the Iphone I guess.


Yeah, we have Boost mobile and pay $35 a month for unlimited phone, text and web. Their prices actually decrease every 6 months you are a customer. If only other services would reward customers with discounts for their loyalty.


----------



## ffemtreed

Satelliteracer said:


> Did you get anything in additional value for that money spent? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.
> 
> I would offer that in the past 6 years D* has added over
> 
> 170 HD channels that didn't exist 6 years ago.
> Whole home sharing
> Better equipment (faster, more storage capacity, new UI, etc).
> Things like viewing on your iPad, DVR scheduler apps, free programming add-ons (golf mixes, tennis mixes, NASCAR, etc).
> 3D Television channels launched
> YouTube integration....Pandora coming very soon
> HBO Go \ Max Go
> More call centers launched so wait times are reduced
> New channel launches
> DIRECTV Everywhere
> Tons of new local markets launched in the past 6 years
> Etc, etc
> 
> Some of those may apply to you, some may not. This is where I believe this industry is a little different. When Starbucks raised the price of my coffee two weeks ago was I getting a better coffee? More coffee? Nope. When my electricity rates went up, was I getting better electricity? More efficient electricity? When gas goes up...you get the idea.
> 
> No company likes to raise prices because of the fear of alienating customers. In my world, at least, I've found that this industry by and large at least tries to innovate and provide some additional value along with those price increases. First and foremost the price increase is there to offset increased expenses, mostly in the form of programming costs but that hasn't stopped many television distributors from trying to deliver a better experience and better product along the way. Just my opinion, albeit a bias one.


Very few of that actually applies to me, I kept the 3 dollars I pay for whole home DVR out of my monthly cost equation (which I believe should be included in premier anyways). I have had the same equipment since I gave up my old HD tivo. I have been waiting all these years for a new tivo only to find out it is a stripped down piece of junk and not a leading edge receiver, that for another thread though.

A lot of the recent development has to do with mobile devices, I seriously have no interest in viewing content on my mobile device. The sound sucks and it totally kills my battery.

I guess on your list I should just say what I do use in that 3 years.
The limited amount of 3D programming
Some of the new HD channels I watch 
I think I used youtube once or twice
The new HD GUI is nice, bit I would pay extra for it if I had a choice.

I just really think my needs and the direction of the company are going in different directions and when looking at the costs it made me realize it.

I am giving it till the end of the NHL season hoping to see some more 3D content /basic HD and some announcement some kind of upgrade path to a HR24 and 34 for existing customers. If not, then i am going to stick to my plan of netflix, ROKU and PS3 at least for the summer while my account is suspended.

since I am ranting, another thing that turns me off is how confusing all these packages are and how constantly they change. Quit trying to confuse everyone with all these legacy packages, grandfathered packages and etc. Come up with something simple like starter, bronze, silver and gold and keep them the same every year and just adjust the prices.


----------



## Shades228

ffemtreed said:


> I am giving it till the end of the NHL season hoping to see some more 3D content /basic HD and some announcement some kind of upgrade path to a HR24 and 34 for existing customers. If not, then i am going to stick to my plan of netflix, ROKU and PS3 at least for the summer while my account is suspended.
> 
> since I am ranting, another thing that turns me off is how confusing all these packages are and how constantly they change. Quit trying to confuse everyone with all these legacy packages, grandfathered packages and etc. Come up with something simple like starter, bronze, silver and gold and keep them the same every year and just adjust the prices.


There is an upgrade path for existing customers to order an HR34 staring on 2/9/12.

They're actually simplifying the plans. DIRECTV has only renamed advertised plans 3 times that I can remember. I can see plans starting to change more now though with how negotiations are going with channels. In order to keep costs down channels will have to be moved around.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Shades228 said:


> There is an upgrade path for existing customers to order an HR34 staring on 2/9/12.
> 
> They're actually simplifying the plans. DIRECTV has only renamed advertised plans 3 times that I can remember. I can see plans starting to change more now though with how negotiations are going with channels. In order to keep costs down channels will have to be moved around.


Will the NBC sports channel move as part a new deal with nbc / comcast both to maybe choice and to the 200's range.


----------



## BattleScott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Me thinks you may have over-looked the real point.
> 
> Yes - its real money
> Yes - the impact varies by customer
> Yes - this occurs with almost all providers annually
> Yes - there are choices
> 
> On the last point (*my* main point done in humor), you can adjust other items to compensate for the increase, reduce services to adjust the costs per bill, consider alternative providers, etc.
> 
> Every time...every year...that prices go up....this same dialog comes up - and not just for DirecTV. There is littel doubt no one likes paying more money for something...especially something they use or are accustomed to use.
> 
> That said - there are choices.


If that was your point, you have a very strange way of wording things. Your post CLEARLY reads as a snarky comment accusing people of over-racting to what is a "negligible" amount of money to you.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BattleScott said:


> If that was your point, you have a very strange way of wording things. Your post CLEARLY reads as a *snarky* comment accusing people of over-racting to what is a "negligible" amount of money to you.


Apparently humor is not easy to comprehend for some people. The *first post *was clearly a joke to 99% of folks. In fact...other posters followed in suit with humor...

If the post you just quoted isn't clear, then perhaps many other things wouldn't be either - like the fact that *annual rate increases have been happening for more than 16 years*. Nothing new.

*Battle*scott - only you and one other poster found it strange...get over it. How making choices based on higher prices for ANYTHING is considered "strange" is a mystery.

P.S. As for unclear or strange wording....snarky is a "strange" word...and subjective in your usage.

So you and I have expressed our views...lets move on and let others convey *their* take on the topic of DirecTV price increases...


----------



## zimm7778

"Satelliteracer" said:


> Did you get anything in additional value for that money spent? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.
> 
> I would offer that in the past 6 years D* has added over
> 
> [*]170 HD channels that didn't exist 6 years ago.
> [*]Whole home sharing
> [*]Better equipment (faster, more storage capacity, new UI, etc).
> [*]Things like viewing on your iPad, DVR scheduler apps, free programming add-ons (golf mixes, tennis mixes, NASCAR, etc).
> [*]3D Television channels launched
> [*]YouTube integration....Pandora coming very soon
> [*]HBO Go \ Max Go
> [*]More call centers launched so wait times are reduced
> [*]New channel launches
> [*]DIRECTV Everywhere
> [*]Tons of new local markets launched in the past 6 years
> [*]Etc, etc
> 
> Some of those may apply to you, some may not. This is where I believe this industry is a little different. When Starbucks raised the price of my coffee two weeks ago was I getting a better coffee? More coffee? Nope. When my electricity rates went up, was I getting better electricity? More efficient electricity? When gas goes up...you get the idea.
> 
> No company likes to raise prices because of the fear of alienating customers. In my world, at least, I've found that this industry by and large at least tries to innovate and provide some additional value along with those price increases. First and foremost the price increase is there to offset increased expenses, mostly in the form of programming costs but that hasn't stopped many television distributors from trying to deliver a better experience and better product along the way. Just my opinion, albeit a bias one.


What is Directv Everywhere? I know you can't be calling watching the iPad everywhere because it doesn't work outside my house.


----------



## Drew2k

zimm7778 said:


> What is Directv Everywhere? I know you can't be calling watching the iPad everywhere because it doesn't work outside my house.


We don't have much info beyond what was announced in some recent DIRECTV earning calls and a one line item in a recent email from DIRECTV, but it would seem to be a way for DIRECTV customers to watch DIRECTV programming from "anywhere", much like the "TV Anywhere" initiatives by a lot of cable companies. HBO and Cinemax already have something like this, where through their web sites and custom apps a customer can input their DIRECTV account info and watch HBO and Cinemax programming. My guess is DIRECTV will be expanding the programming so that if your pacakge allows you to watch it on your TV with your DIRECTV receiver, you may be allowed to watch it "remotely", on a tablet, PC, phone, etc. We just don't know any concrete details or timelines...


----------



## BattleScott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looks like that $5 total increase here could break the bank.
> 
> I'm going to sell my car...remove all other appliances...walk instead of drive...turn in all my phones...eat crackers and drink water only...wash clothes only once a week...and turn off the lights except 10 minutes per day...
> 
> Oh wait...that might be an over-reaction.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Me thinks you may have over-looked the real point.
> 
> Yes - its real money
> Yes - the impact varies by customer
> Yes - this occurs with almost all providers annually
> Yes - there are choices
> 
> On the last point (*my* main point done in humor), you can adjust other items to compensate for the increase, reduce services to adjust the costs per bill, consider alternative providers, etc.
> 
> Every time...every year...that prices go up....this same dialog comes up - and not just for DirecTV. There is littel doubt no one likes paying more money for something...especially something they use or are accustomed to use.
> 
> That said - there are choices.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently humor is not easy to comprehend for some people. The *first post *was clearly a joke to 99% of folks. In fact...other posters followed in suit with humor...
> 
> If the post you just quoted isn't clear, then perhaps many other things wouldn't be either - like the fact that *annual rate increases have been happening for more than 16 years*. Nothing new.
> 
> *Battle*scott - only you and one other poster found it strange...get over it. How making choices based on higher prices for ANYTHING is considered "strange" is a mystery.
> 
> P.S. As for unclear or strange wording....snarky is a "strange" word...and subjective in your usage.
> 
> So you and I have expressed our views...lets move on and let others convey *their* take on the topic of DirecTV price increases...


The post in question is not the one quoted, but nice try. It is the first post above that was the objectionable post, so stop trying to blend them together and gloss over it. Additionally, I don't really see any posts following yours that "follow suit" in any way.

Though you might find "snarky" a stange word, it has a clearly defined meaning. 
1: crotchety, snappish 
*2: sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner *

So it is unmistakable in both it's meaning and MY usage. Your original post, h*dtvfan*0001, WAS snarky in both it's presentation and it's intent.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Stop discussing each other...either drop it or take it to PM.

From here on discuss the topic and not each other. 

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I'm sure most folks would agree that price increases are not welcome, yet a reality in most products and services.

Then again, DirecTV and Dish have done annual price increases for years.

Certainly at some point, on an individual bases, the value-vs-cost impact gets re-assessed whenever prices change. That's not exclusive to just Sat TV service.


----------



## mdavej

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm sure most folks would agree that price increases are not welcome, yet a reality in most products and services.
> 
> Then again, DirecTV and Dish have done annual price increases for years.
> 
> Certainly at some point, on an individual bases, the value-vs-cost impact gets re-assessed whenever prices change. That's not exclusive to just Sat TV service.


Dish didn't increase prices this year.


----------



## dpeters11

True, but last year (just before they announced the price freeze), it went up 10-12%.


----------



## bigtom

"mdavej" said:


> Dish didn't increase prices this year.


It was a very clever marketing spin on front loading two years of price increase on the packages last year.


----------



## zimm7778

"Drew2k" said:


> We don't have much info beyond what was announced in some recent DIRECTV earning calls and a one line item in a recent email from DIRECTV, but it would seem to be a way for DIRECTV customers to watch DIRECTV programming from "anywhere", much like the "TV Anywhere" initiatives by a lot of cable companies. HBO and Cinemax already have something like this, where through their web sites and custom apps a customer can input their DIRECTV account info and watch HBO and Cinemax programming. My guess is DIRECTV will be expanding the programming so that if your pacakge allows you to watch it on your TV with your DIRECTV receiver, you may be allowed to watch it "remotely", on a tablet, PC, phone, etc. We just don't know any concrete details or timelines...


Ok, so I didn't miss anything and this isn't offered yet. That's what I was confused on I guess. I thought this was something happening now.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

mdavej said:


> Dish didn't increase prices this year.


It's January. The year is still young.


----------



## Alan Gordon

I've been staying away from this thread the last few days... as I simply had nothing to say:


Yes, I'm unhappy with the price increase, but I knew it was coming, and I don't begrudge DirecTV doing so. With every price increase, DirecTV is taking a greater percentage of my income, and is pulling me closer each time toward "cutting the cord." However, DirecTV will survive without me...
Yes, the post was "snarky," but I don't believe it was intentional. Not all humor works the way it's intended...

I think I'm all caught up now! 

What I want to know is, WHEN are we going to get more information on the Entertainment Package?! So far, this thread has the most information, but it still doesn't have the channel lineup or other information (HD Access fee credits, etc). Will we find out this month, or will we have to wait until next month?!

I'm trying to figure out how long I intend on staying with DirecTV. If I can get a good deal on an HR34-700, I'll agree to another two years. If I can't, I may leave DirecTV later this year, or early next. I'm looking at saving the most money I can until then though...

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> I think I'm all caught up now!
> 
> ~Alan


Yup Alan - you seem to indeed be caught up. 

Your additional points are also interesting, and demonstrate some of the same things I stated earlier. Each person typically re-assesses their current products/services when prices change. That is certainly to be expected.

I enjoyed your added comments.


----------



## thomas_d92

I can afford the increase but what is bothering me is that the programming is worse each year. AMC now has commercials, Bravo has no arts programming anymore ,MTV has no music videos anymore, IFC has commercials. There are many more examples. I am getting tired of paying for reality programming that I cannot stand. The valve to me is not there anymore. I end up watching 80% network ota programming. When my contract is up I am cutting the cord.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

ffemtreed said:


> Very few of that actually applies to me, I kept the 3 dollars I pay for whole home DVR out of my monthly cost equation (which I believe should be included in premier anyways). I have had the same equipment since I gave up my old HD tivo. I have been waiting all these years for a new tivo only to find out it is a stripped down piece of junk and not a leading edge receiver, that for another thread though.
> 
> A lot of the recent development has to do with mobile devices, I seriously have no interest in viewing content on my mobile device. The sound sucks and it totally kills my battery.
> 
> I guess on your list I should just say what I do use in that 3 years.
> The limited amount of 3D programming
> Some of the new HD channels I watch
> I think I used youtube once or twice
> The new HD GUI is nice, bit I would pay extra for it if I had a choice.
> 
> I just really think my needs and the direction of the company are going in different directions and when looking at the costs it made me realize it.
> 
> I am giving it till the end of the NHL season hoping to see some more 3D content /basic HD and some announcement some kind of upgrade path to a HR24 and 34 for existing customers. If not, then i am going to stick to my plan of netflix, ROKU and PS3 at least for the summer while my account is suspended.
> 
> since I am ranting, another thing that turns me off is how confusing all these packages are and how constantly they change. Quit trying to confuse everyone with all these legacy packages, grandfathered packages and etc. Come up with something simple like starter, bronze, silver and gold and keep them the same every year and just adjust the prices.


I think you owe SR a tip of the hat for stating it as well as he did. DTV has added a lot of value to most of our subscriptions in the last 10 years, certainly in the 6 years you outlined. If it didn't apply to you I think you're being less than honest quite frankly. You indicate you have 3D and HD so you had to benefitted significantly. On your 3D claims, no one has more 3D than DTV so if you're disappointed with their 3D offerings, where are you going to go to get more?

For most of the rest of us, the service keeps getting better.

I will make one comment on the HR34 and HR24 upgrade paths. As I stated earlier, I've been in this business for many years. Those boxes are designed to have a revenue life of 10 years and they are leased boxes. If DTV wanted to, they could easily have a model like Apple where you BUY the box and get the model you want whenever you want it. Here's the problem. For them to compete against cable and telcos that give away free hardware, they simply can't do that. Not without going belly up on those costs. That is the reality.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm sure most folks would agree that price increases are not welcome, yet a reality in most products and services.
> 
> Then again, DirecTV and Dish have done annual price increases for years.


As have cable and the telco video providers. They are all dealing with the same programming cost structures.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

ChicagoBlue said:


> As have cable and the telco video providers. They are all dealing with the same programming cost structures.


That is an excellent point.

It seems NOT having a price increase is the exception.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

thomas_d92 said:


> I can afford the increase but what is bothering me is that the programming is worse each year. AMC now has commercials, Bravo has no arts programming anymore ,MTV has no music videos anymore, IFC has commercials. There are many more examples. I am getting tired of paying for reality programming that I cannot stand. The valve to me is not there anymore. I end up watching 80% network ota programming. When my contract is up I am cutting the cord.


You do realize that the networks have added commercials as well...right? It used to be for every 30 minutes you got a certain amount of actual programming. It used to be 24 minutes. Then it was 23 minutes. Now it's 22 minutes. It's going to get worse.

Some cable channels do have commercials that didn't use to. That's the world we live in. Needed revenue. There are still many commercial free channels available, however.


----------



## Alan Gordon

ChicagoBlue said:


> I think you owe SR a tip of the hat for stating it as well as he did. DTV has added a lot of value to most of our subscriptions in the last 10 years, certainly in the 6 years you outlined.


With all due respect to Satelliteracer, DirecTV needed to adapt to many of those of changes. Had they not, DirecTV would not be as successful as they are not. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear the words "additional value" mentioned together, I think of services/features added to make the subscriber feel like they are getting their money's worth... and I'm not sure that all the bullet points mentioned qualified (in my eyes anyway).



Satelliteracer said:


> Did you get anything in additional value for that money spent? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking.
> 
> I would offer that in the past 6 years D* has added over
> 
> 170 HD channels that didn't exist 6 years ago.
> Whole home sharing
> Better equipment (faster, more storage capacity, new UI, etc).
> Things like viewing on your iPad, DVR scheduler apps, free programming add-ons (golf mixes, tennis mixes, NASCAR, etc).
> 3D Television channels launched
> YouTube integration....Pandora coming very soon
> HBO Go \ Max Go
> More call centers launched so wait times are reduced
> New channel launches
> DIRECTV Everywhere
> Tons of new local markets launched in the past 6 years
> Etc, etc



*170 HD channels:* Yeah, DirecTV has added a whole ton of HD channels. While you can credit DirecTV with kick-starting the HD expansion for multi-channel providers, eventually, it would have happened anyway. Had DirecTV NOT done this, I certainly wouldn't still be here. Granted, I'm not currently paying it, but I paid an HD Access fee for years, so not exactly free.
*Whole-Home DVR:* Yep... $3 monthly fee. 
*Better equipment (faster, more storage capacity, new UI, etc):* I certainly LOVE my HR24-100s... particularly after having to use my HR23-700 for a few minutes. However, I wouldn't be surprised that a 500gb hard drive is probably cheaper than a 320gb hard drive from several years ago, and probably easier to buy in large bulk quantities. I also feel the UI improvements helps DirecTV make their service look more appealing. While I enjoy the new UI, I'd probably rather do without bill increases for it!
*Things like viewing on your iPad, DVR scheduler apps, free programming add-ons (golf mixes, tennis mixes, NASCAR, etc):* Aside from the DVR scheduler, I don't care for the rest personally, but these ARE things I consider to be good examples of added value. 
*3DTV:* Given the current state of 3DTV, I'll grant DirecTV this as well. 
*YouTube integration....Pandora coming very soon:* I'll grant them this as well. 
*HBO Go \ Max Go:* Not sure of how much this cost DirecTV, so...
*More call centers launched so wait times are reduced:* I rarely call DirecTV, so not too interesting to me, but I'll grant them this as well. 
*New channel launches:* I can only think of maybe two channels (off the top of my head) that I care about personally in the last six years, but I'll grant this as well. 
*DIRECTV Everywhere:* No interest personally, but to each their own. If it's free, I'll grant them this as well. 
*Tons of new local markets launched in the past 6 years:* Given that a LOT of those markets are smaller markets (including my own), I'll grant them this, even though we get back into a situation where we once again find competitive reasons for possibly doing so.

So... yeah, I think DirecTV has indeed given us additional value, though whether or not that additional value is worth the additional money is subjective.

In respect to Satelliteracer, I do want to state that I found the rest of that post (quoted below) to be some *VERY* good points.



Satelliteracer said:


> Some of those may apply to you, some may not. This is where I believe this industry is a little different. When Starbucks raised the price of my coffee two weeks ago was I getting a better coffee? More coffee? Nope. When my electricity rates went up, was I getting better electricity? More efficient electricity? When gas goes up...you get the idea.
> 
> No company likes to raise prices because of the fear of alienating customers. In my world, at least, I've found that this industry by and large at least tries to innovate and provide some additional value along with those price increases. First and foremost the price increase is there to offset increased expenses, mostly in the form of programming costs but that hasn't stopped many television distributors from trying to deliver a better experience and better product along the way. Just my opinion, albeit a bias one.





ChicagoBlue said:


> I will make one comment on the HR34 and HR24 upgrade paths. As I stated earlier, I've been in this business for many years. Those boxes are designed to have a revenue life of 10 years and they are leased boxes. If DTV wanted to, they could easily have a model like Apple where you BUY the box and get the model you want whenever you want it. Here's the problem. For them to compete against cable and telcos that give away free hardware, they simply can't do that. Not without going belly up on those costs. That is the reality.


I remember a few years ago, an internet acquaintance of mine who is a Comcast customer wanted a newer model DVR. He went in to the cableco's office and swapped out his older model DVR for the newer one. Granted, Comcast charges more per month for their DVR service, and DirecTV charges (sometimes) a upfront fee. Then again, DirecTV puts you into a contract when you get the equipment, and cable doesn't, so...

I truly believe there SHOULD be a program in place for the techies out there, but I don't claim to have all the necessary information needed to come up with one that is financially do-able. I do think a compromise could exist...

~Alan


----------



## paulh

thomas_d92 said:


> I can afford the increase but what is bothering me is that the programming is worse each year. AMC now has commercials, Bravo has no arts programming anymore ,MTV has no music videos anymore, IFC has commercials. There are many more examples. I am getting tired of paying for reality programming that I cannot stand. The valve to me is not there anymore. I end up watching 80% network ota programming. When my contract is up I am cutting the cord.


What's really annoying is waking up at 3am thinking you will do mindless surfing and find that you are not paying for 24 hours of programming a day on DirecTv. (Or the programmers are ripping off DirecTv). Instead you find out you only get about 20 hours of programming and 4 hours of infomercials on virtually every channel :/


----------



## Satelliteracer

zimm7778 said:


> What is Directv Everywhere? I know you can't be calling watching the iPad everywhere because it doesn't work outside my house.


It will allow you to watch some of you DIRECTV programming on your smartphone, tablet or PC via authentication. You can be outside the home. It will not be all content and there will be phases as additional content is added. Can't say more than that, but some of us are testing it now and it works great. You don't need a connected receiver so customers that are SD only or don't have a HD-DVR have some additional benefits coming to them.

As stated earlier, D* tries to continue to innovate and add value to the customer experience all the time. This is just another example.


----------



## Shades228

Alan Gordon said:


> I remember a few years ago, an internet acquaintance of mine who is a Comcast customer wanted a newer model DVR. He went in to the cableco's office and swapped out his older model DVR for the newer one. Granted, Comcast charges more per month for their DVR service, and DirecTV charges (sometimes) a upfront fee. Then again, DirecTV puts you into a contract when you get the equipment, and cable doesn't, so...
> 
> I truly believe there SHOULD be a program in place for the techies out there, but I don't claim to have all the necessary information needed to come up with one that is financially do-able. I do think a compromise could exist...
> 
> ~Alan


There is a program in place. DIRECTV allows certain dealers to sell leased equipment and these companies allow you to order specific models. They usually only stock the latest model unless it's an exception item, HR 21 PRO/R22, so you can get a newest item if you want at the same regular price DIRECTV charges.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"Shades228" said:


> There is a program in place. DIRECTV allows certain dealers to sell leased equipment and these companies allow you to order specific models. They usually only stock the latest model unless it's an exception item, HR 21 PRO/R22, so you can get a newest item if you want at the same regular price DIRECTV charges.


That's not what I meant, though I believe you knew that. 

~Alan


----------



## jzoomer

What I find amazing is that if program costs are driving Directv prices up how come they are constanting offering "discounted programming" to "loyal customers" and new customers? Seems like there is some fat in those program prices.


----------



## Paul Secic

ThePhantom said:


> ...till June or July, when the $10 HD/auto-pay discount comes to an end.
> 
> Is Dish still touting the "free HD for life"? Wonder if DTV will do anything upon this summer's expiration (my guess is not).


Free HD from Dish still applies.


----------



## Hooterville

I'm paying $98.07 a month and I only have two standard HD receivers and no premium movie packages. Why is my bill so high?


----------



## Drew2k

Hooterville said:


> I'm paying $98.07 a month and I only have two standard HD receivers and no premium movie packages. Why is my bill so high?


From what you've shared you are paying a $6 mirror fee for your second receiver, and also paying $10 for HD Access.

If you are leasing the second receiver you may be paying tax on it (dependent on your billing state).

But what package do you have? Do you have the Extra pack? Pay for any premiums not in your package? Etc.

That would be the bulk of the difference...

Oh... and what is on your bill? That would itemize the charges and be the first place to check on what you are paying, and then you can evaluate whether it's worth it or if it's "too high".


----------



## Hooterville

Here is what is on my bill:

Choice XTRA Monthly $65.99
HD Extra Pack Monthly $4.99
HD Access Monthly $10.00

Leased Receiver $6.00
Primary Leased Receiver $6.00
Primary Leased Receiver -$6.00 Credit

Sales Tax 0.42
Communications Service Tax $10.67
Amount Due $98.07

When I got these receivers I was told that I would own the receivers as the installer took my old Sony HD300 and a Sony Regular receiver that I purchased outright at Circuit City many years ago.

To me this bill just seems high and we have been with DirecTv for 15 years.
I should at least get HD access for free.


----------



## Shades228

Hooterville said:


> Here is what is on my bill:
> 
> Choice XTRA Monthly $65.99
> HD Extra Pack Monthly $4.99
> HD Access Monthly $10.00
> 
> Leased Receiver $6.00
> Primary Leased Receiver $6.00
> Primary Leased Receiver -$6.00 Credit
> 
> Sales Tax 0.42
> Communications Service Tax $10.67
> Amount Due $98.07
> 
> When I got these receivers I was told that I would own the receivers as the installer took my old Sony HD300 and a Sony Regular receiver that I purchased outright at Circuit City many years ago.
> 
> To me this bill just seems high and we have been with DirecTv for 15 years.
> I should at least get HD access for free.


$11 in taxes isn't going to help


----------



## Davenlr

You can ask for free HD for 24 months if you have auto billpay.
You dont own the receivers, regardless of what the installer told you, but that would not matter, as the fee is the same for owned receivers.

Its that $10.67 Communications Service Tax thats running your bill up. What state do you like in that charges a 12% tax on satellite service?


----------



## dpeters11

From another thread, he's in Florida.


----------



## Supramom2000

Davenlr said:


> You can ask for free HD for 24 months if you have auto billpay.
> You dont own the receivers, regardless of what the installer told you, but that would not matter, as the fee is the same for owned receivers.
> 
> Its that $10.67 Communications Service Tax thats running your bill up. What state do you like in that charges a 12% tax on satellite service?


Not to hijack the thread, but do you know if DTV counts as auto bill pay when your whole bill is paid through the customer's bundle program? I have Century Link (formerly Qwest) and bundle Phone/SAT/Internet/Wireless into 1 bill. This bill is auto-paid to Century Link and they distribute the rest of the payments.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Supramom2000 said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but do you know if DTV counts as auto bill pay when your whole bill is paid through the customer's bundle program? I have Century Link (formerly Qwest) and bundle Phone/SAT/Internet/Wireless into 1 bill. This bill is auto-paid to Century Link and they distribute the rest of the payments.


it should


----------



## zimm7778

"dpeters11" said:


> From another thread, he's in Florida.


I live in Florida too and taxes here are ridiculously high. I've had cable in the past and it's straight local tax, not the outrageous amount you get from having a Dish.


----------



## dpeters11

Some states consider satellite more of a luxury than cable. Or the cable lobbyists are better.


----------



## Hooterville

What is the deal with that $11.00 in taxes?


----------



## loudo

zimm7778 said:


> I live in Florida too and taxes here are ridiculously high. I've had cable in the past and it's straight local tax, not the outrageous amount you get from having a Dish.


7 months ago I moved from Florida to Maine, and my DirecTV tax dropped $6.00 a month, but my Property tax increased 250% and it cost me 9 times more than in Florida, to register my car. My high satellite tax in Florida doesn't look so bad any more.


----------



## jeffgbailey

Supramom2000 said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but do you know if DTV counts as auto bill pay when your whole bill is paid through the customer's bundle program? I have Century Link (formerly Qwest) and bundle Phone/SAT/Internet/Wireless into 1 bill. This bill is auto-paid to Century Link and they distribute the rest of the payments.


yes it does qualify. Qwest/CL pays Directv so that is considered auto-pay. You dont even need to be on auto pay with Qwest to get it 

Seen lots of posts on both sites that mention it.


----------



## BattleScott

"Laxguy" said:


> I don't believe they've done the latter. Could be wrong, but then someone will gladly post an excerpt from the company to prove me wrong.


This is what came in the mail yesterday:


> Annually, the owners of TV channels increase the fees they charge DIRECTV for the right to broadcast their movies, shows and sporting events. As a result, DIRECTV must periodically adjust the pricing and channel lineups of some of our programming packages so we can continue to bring you these channels. This year, the programming costs we pay to owners of TV channels will increase about 10%, but we have chosen to adjust the prices our customers pay by an average of only 4%.


Not only are they passing it off as completely due to programming costs, they're also trying to imply that they are raising our rates far less than theirs are going up. A VERY disingenuous statement and pretty low-class.


----------



## Devo1237

FYI, I gave up on waiting for the Feb 9 channel change list and upgraded my old school Total Choice package to Choice Extra before it becomes grandfathered next week and they gave me a $10 off the package for the next 12 months (I already have the $10 off HD credit). So even with the upgraded package cost and price rise next bill, I will actually be paying less for Choice Extra Classic than I was for TC over the next 12 months! 

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still love DTV and am excited to finally have Tennis Channel and more SonicTap stations for less!


----------



## Laxguy

Devo1237 said:


> FYI, I gave up on waiting for the Feb 9 channel change list and upgraded my old school Total Choice package to Choice Extra before it becomes grandfathered next week and they gave me a $10 off the package for the next 12 months (I already have the $10 off HD credit). So even with the upgraded package cost and price rise next bill, I will actually be paying less for Choice Extra Classic than I was for TC over the next 12 months!
> 
> I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still love DTV and am excited to finally have Tennis Channel and more SonicTap stations for less!


Sweet! And despite the B & M'ing here I think most of us feel that way. 
Crack that whip!


----------



## SledgeHammer

Hooterville said:


> Communications Service Tax $10.67


LOL. WTF? I think I would leave the state if they charged me that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

It's a shame some folks don't realize the #1 cost impacting pricing is the content provider programming fees. Price increases from content providers do *in fact* get passed on to all of us within our monthly service costs (despite those who don't understand or believe it).

If DirecTV has a 10% content provider fee increase in play...we have no idea what that rate translates to in actual fee dollars/costs - so it's perfectly believable that the actual dollar amount spread among the entire customer base can translate to a subscriber rate increase of only 4% of OUR monthly fee. Not sure why a few folks just don't understand it.

Nobody likes price increases - but the attention and fingers need to be pointed at the channel content providers who have jacked up their fees at double digit rates.


----------



## SledgeHammer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's a shame some folks don't realize the #1 cost impacting pricing is the content provider programming fees. Price increases from content providers do *in fact* get passed on to all of us within our monthly service costs (despite those who don't understand or believe it).
> 
> If DirecTV has a 10% content provider fee increase in play...we have no idea what that rate translates to in actual fee dollars/costs - so it's perfectly believable that the actual dollar amount spread among the entire customer base can translate to a subscriber rate increase of only 4% of OUR monthly fee. Not sure why a few folks just don't understand it.
> 
> Nobody likes price increases - but the attention and fingers need to be pointed at the channel content providers who have jacked up their fees at double digit rates.


Sorry, but disagree. Do not insult our intelligence by blaming gas prices on unrest in the middle east, etc. and then claiming record profits. What was it? like $40B or something? Now Exxon is the 2nd most profitable company in the world (behind Apple)? Where am I headed with this? Well, DirecTV blames the increases on the content providers (and while that may be true...) and then claim record profits. Not to the extent Exxon does, but...

Now, yes, companies have every right to make a profit... just tell it like it is...

"Content Providers raised prices 2%, but we are raising your rates 10%... Sorry, but our CEO needs a new Lear Jet "

Yeah, the smiley face should be in the press release hahah.


----------



## bigtom

It is a well known fact that the rising programming costs are hurting the industry as a whole. Every TV distributor is feeling the effects and have to raise their monthly service charges. 

If the price increases are direct reason for record profits, why are other TV distributors failing to acheive record profits from even greater %age increases?

DIRECTV is just more successful at generating revenue from sources other than monthly service charges for TV, managing their costs, and staying positive on net sub growth.


----------



## Davenlr

bigtom said:


> If the price increases are direct reason for record profits, why are other TV distributors failing to acheive record profits from even greater %age increases?
> .


In large part because you can subscribe to all the competitors without a two year contract, so they have more churn and the biggie... 
the lock on Sunday Ticket locks up the entire sports bar/business establishment nation wide for Directv. That is a lot of cash coming in there.


----------



## trh

From the 2010 Shareholders report, programming for DirecTV represents almost 52% of their total costs. So a 10% increase in that area will increase their overall costs by about 5.2% (and there are other costs that I'm sure went up; like health insurance?). What I can't determine from that same report is what percentage of their revenue is from subscriptions; and is there a difference between residential and commercial (and are commercial accounts increasing as well)?

From the 2010 report:



> Revenues. We earn revenues mostly from monthly fees we charge subscribers for subscriptions to basic and premium channel programming, HD programming and access fees, pay-per-view programming, and seasonal and live sporting events. We also earn revenues from monthly fees that we charge subscribers with multiple non-leased set-top receivers (which we refer to as mirroring fees), monthly fees we charge subscribers for leased set-top receivers, monthly fees we charge subscribers for digital video recorder, or DVR, service, hardware revenues from subscribers who lease or purchase set-top receivers from us, our published programming guide, warranty service fees and advertising services.


And yes, they have a responsibility to their shareholders to make a profit.

If you think the rate increase is to much and they are gouging you, then changing providers is an option.


----------



## mhayes70

SledgeHammer said:


> Sorry, but disagree. Do not insult our intelligence by blaming gas prices on unrest in the middle east, etc. and then claiming record profits. What was it? like $40B or something? Now Exxon is the 2nd most profitable company in the world (behind Apple)? Where am I headed with this? Well, DirecTV blames the increases on the content providers (and while that may be true...) and then claim record profits. Not to the extent Exxon does, but...
> 
> Now, yes, companies have every right to make a profit... just tell it like it is...
> 
> "Content Providers raised prices 2%, but we are raising your rates 10%... Sorry, but our CEO needs a new Lear Jet "
> 
> Yeah, the smiley face should be in the press release hahah.


Where do you get 2%? Because everything I have seen is larger than that.


----------



## kevinturcotte

How high can they continue to raise prices? How long before we're paying $200 a month for the Select Package?


----------



## spartanstew

kevinturcotte said:


> How high can they continue to raise prices? How long before we're paying $200 a month for the Select Package?


Longer than I'll be alive, but it'll probably hit $100 in 20 years.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

kevinturcotte said:


> How high can they continue to raise prices? How long before we're paying $200 a month for the Select Package?


Well at some point All a cart or some kind of theme pack system will be in place.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Ok...

For those who don't get it....here's an *example* of the math....based on assumptions of cost/average customer rates that no one here knows...

If the total fee increases from content providers equal $800,000 (10%) in a year...that same cost spread over 20 million customers would be an average of about 4% per account. Other numbers can work within the same formula.

Anyone who doesn't think/know that programming fees are one of the largest operational expenses of any TV delivery service (DirecTV or other)...well.... 

I'm not saying rate increases are good. I'm only saying the math %'s can be legitimate.


----------



## MysteryMan

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Ok...
> 
> For those who don't get it....here's an *example* of the math....based on assumptions of cost/average customer rates that no one here knows...
> 
> If the total fee increases from content providers equal $800,000 (10%) in a year...that same cost spread over 20 million customers would be an average of about 4% per account. Other numbers can work within the same formula.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't think/know that programming fees are one of the largest operational expenses of any TV delivery service (DirecTV or other)...well....
> 
> I'm not saying rate increases are good. I'm only saying the math %'s can be legitimate.


+1......but for some simple math can be hard.


----------



## loudo

Yes, the prices go up every year, but DirecTV has more channels, for less money than our local cable company.

If you think the DirecTV rate increase was bad, check out the Time Warner increase, in this article. 
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/27/business/la-fi-lazarus-20111227


----------



## zimm7778

"loudo" said:


> Yes, the prices go up every year, but DirecTV has more channels, for less money than our local cable company.
> 
> If you think the DirecTV rate increase was bad, check out the Time Warner increase, in this article.
> http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/27/business/la-fi-lazarus-20111227


But you can get cable with no box fees and for less if you want just basic cable. Yes, you get less channels but in most cases you get the overwhelming majority of the most popular ones Iike TBS, TNT, USA, ESPN, your local RSN, etc. To me, it's just a matter of what you want that determines who and what service is best for you.


----------



## loudo

zimm7778 said:


> But you can get cable with no box fees and for less if you want just basic cable. Yes, you get less channels but in most cases you get the overwhelming majority of the most popular ones Iike TBS, TNT, USA, ESPN, your local RSN, etc. To me, it's just a matter of what you want that determines who and what service is best for you.


Our local cable company just went totally digital, requiring everyone to have a box, even the 23 and 78 channel basic subscribers. They are giving it free for a period of time and then they will start charging everyone for the use of the digital to analog conversion box. So as cable companies convert to total digital signal I am sure we will start seeing the same thing happening with other cable companies.


----------



## mhayes70

zimm7778 said:


> But you can get cable with no box fees and for less if you want just basic cable. Yes, you get less channels but in most cases you get the overwhelming majority of the most popular ones Iike TBS, TNT, USA, ESPN, your local RSN, etc. To me, it's just a matter of what you want that determines who and what service is best for you.


But, those channels are not HD. If you want HD with Cable. You have to have a box and those fees are usually higher than Directv's.


----------



## Mike Greer

I don't think it really matters who is to blame... It seems like the prices for all the TV providers is getting to the tipping point where people are just going to say 'screw it!' and bag the usual pay-tv sources. A mix of hulu, netflix and Over-The-Air is looking pretty good at this point.


----------



## SledgeHammer

mhayes70 said:


> Where do you get 2%? Because everything I have seen is larger than that.


Good one . GUARANTEED DirecTV is not doing us any favors or "helping us out" by keeping the prices "low". They are doing everything possible to try to squeeze every last cent out of us without driving us to a competitor. I can guarantee you, that if they could, you be paying a $5/month lease fee on the remote, another one on the batteries inside the remote and yet another one for the detachable power cord on your DVR. There'd also be lease fees on the dish itself, a separate one for the dish mount and yet another for the b-band converters.

TRUST ME... if THEIR cost increased x%, they passed on a (x + y)% increase to US.


----------



## lparsons21

While I have no inclination to switch at the moment, although I could change my mind at any time, I have to think that from a purely financial standpoint, switching to cable here is a sweet deal.

Just got a deal in the mail from them. $90/month for a year, then $120/month in 2nd year which would include my cable internet service (@$49/month). If I cancelled D* today, I would have a $380 ETF. If I add in that and the total cost over the 2 years, the avg monthly outlay would be $121. Making the internet and phone svc cost $71/month on average. Them's serious numbers to consider.

Of course I would be giving up quite a bit of HD channels I like (cable has a total of 25 counting all the premiums), would have 2 really sucky DVRs (oops, that just added to the bill!), and would have to put up with SD that is god awful even compared to D*'s awful SD.

So the choices are pay the money, get what you want. Save a bunch, and miss out on things you like. I suspect that all of us here have similar deals and such we can toy with!


----------



## mhayes70

SledgeHammer said:


> Good one . GUARANTEED DirecTV is not doing us any favors or "helping us out" by keeping the prices "low". They are doing everything possible to try to squeeze every last cent out of us without driving us to a competitor. I can guarantee you, that if they could, you be paying a $5/month lease fee on the remote, another one on the batteries inside the remote and yet another one for the detachable power cord on your DVR. There'd also be lease fees on the dish itself, a separate one for the dish mount and yet another for the b-band converters.
> 
> TRUST ME... if THEIR cost increased x%, they passed on a (x + y)% increase to US.


You are correct if there cost go up it will get passed down to us. That happens in EVERY business. But, you still did not answer my question on where you are coming up with the 2% increase?


----------



## Laxguy

Mike Greer said:


> I don't think it really matters who is to blame... It seems like the prices for all the TV providers is getting to the tipping point where people are just going to say 'screw it!' and bag the usual pay-tv sources. A mix of hulu, netflix and Over-The-Air is looking pretty good at this point.


Well, yes, that's the free marketplace at work. Even if cable or sat service was the only traditional mode available, it would be keep in check by the alternatives you mention. Or reading!


----------



## Cyber36

Devo1237 said:


> FYI, I gave up on waiting for the Feb 9 channel change list and upgraded my old school Total Choice package to Choice Extra before it becomes grandfathered next week and they gave me a $10 off the package for the next 12 months (I already have the $10 off HD credit). So even with the upgraded package cost and price rise next bill, I will actually be paying less for Choice Extra Classic than I was for TC over the next 12 months!
> 
> I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still love DTV and am excited to finally have Tennis Channel and more SonicTap stations for less!


That's great, BUT.....Could you please tell us what channels you've LOST in the "upgrade"??


----------



## Mike Greer

Laxguy said:


> Well, yes, that's the free marketplace at work. Even if cable or sat service was the only traditional mode available, it would be keep in check by the alternatives you mention. Or reading!


Reading? What is that?

I just hope they (ALL OF THEM!) wake up before the masses give up and read!


----------



## 96beretta

It's still cheaper for me to have Directv and pay for my Cable internet at full price than it is to get a Cable Bundle through my provider... They want obnoxious prices to rent boxes... it was $20 more than my current DTV and Cable combined to bundle the two together and have one less receiver box in my house and that quote given was before taxes and I was comparing to after taxes prices... I'll stick with DTV even if the customer service is hard to deal with.


----------



## joshjr

mhayes70 said:


> But, those channels are not HD. If you want HD with Cable. You have to have a box and those fees are usually higher than Directv's.


That depends on how you look at it. The Cable Co where I live was charging $8 a month for a box even before they were digital. If you didnt sub to a premium or an expansion pack you paid extra for nothing. If you had a box for PPV only you paid $8 per box for the option to order a PPV. It was a huge ripoff. Those were not even DVR's. If they have to charge fees for things like that they need to build them into packages so people done see it. No way was I paying $8 a month just to have a box incase I wanted to order a PPV.


----------



## David Ortiz

I thought friends don't let friends watch cable!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

David Ortiz said:


> I thought friends don't let friends watch cable!


Not to mention those friends could otherwise end up in a ditch.... :lol:


----------



## BattleScott

"MysteryMan" said:


> +1......but for some simple math can be hard.


True. What's 10% of 8b?


----------



## Devo1237

Cyber36 said:


> That's great, BUT.....Could you please tell us what channels you've LOST in the "upgrade"??


Yep, I lost exactly one channel going from Total Choice to Choice Extra Classic:
SonicTap: Carnaval Brasileiro (ch 877).

Meanwhile the channels I gained were:
bio
Boomerang
CBS College Sports
Centric
Chiller
Cloo (which i think will go away on the 9th)
Discovery Fit & Health
DIY
Documentary Channel
Fox Movie Channel
FuelTV
Golf Channel
GAC
H2 
hub
LOGO
Military Channel
mun2
Nat Geo Wild
NBA TV
NHL Channel
NickToons
Ovation
Oxygen (not sure if that was in TC)
Sprout
Planet Green
Speed
Style
Tennis Channel
Sportsman Channel
TVG
VH1 Classic
+22 additional SonicTap music channels


----------



## 96beretta

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not to mention those friends could otherwise end up in a ditch.... :lol:


Or end up with a grandson with a dog collar.


----------



## SledgeHammer

mhayes70 said:


> You are correct if there cost go up it will get passed down to us. That happens in EVERY business. But, you still did not answer my question on where you are coming up with the 2% increase?


That was an arbitrary number x. My point was not specific numbers. It was that they are passing ALL their increase PLUS additional to US. Their press release made it sound like they are doing us a favor by not passing on the full increase.


----------



## zimm7778

"loudo" said:


> Our local cable company just went totally digital, requiring everyone to have a box, even the 23 and 78 channel basic subscribers. They are giving it free for a period of time and then they will start charging everyone for the use of the digital to analog conversion box. So as cable companies convert to total digital signal I am sure we will start seeing the same thing happening with other cable companies.


If you have a digital tv you don't need their box do you?


----------



## zimm7778

"mhayes70" said:


> But, those channels are not HD. If you want HD with Cable. You have to have a box and those fees are usually higher than Directv's.


You are correct. They are higher in every case I've ever seen, BUT not everyone has HD. My grandparents have an HD tv and won't pay the extra for an hd box as opposed to standard and service to get it. There's also people who only really need one tv hooked up with cable so even in the instance where you must have a box most companies I've ever seen the first standard box (non dvr) is free. Maybe that's becoming a thing of the past but it's been true up to now wherever I've lived.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BattleScott said:


> True. What's 10% of 8b?


Since no one here knows the cost details of content provider fees at DirecTV...any specific math is speculation....which is why a hypothetical example was given and discussed by others as well.

The point (missed by a few) is that despite claims to the contrary...the math of having one % of increased fee rate to DirecTV *can indeed be different and legitimate when compared * to a smaller % seen by end customers.



96beretta said:


> Or end up with a grandson with a dog collar.


Yup. :lol:


----------



## TDK1044

I don't know what all the fuss is about. It's a free market. Everyone can choose their provider and their package. If you don't like the provider that you have, then vote with your wallet and go somewhere else.

Technological advances will see new players in the market over the next ten years, and they will offer different types of viewing on a variety of new devices.

Personally, I've tried Comcast, U-verse, DISH and DirecTV. I choose to stay with DirecTV, but who knows what the future might hold.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TDK1044 said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about. It's a free market. Everyone can choose their provider and their package. If you don't like the provider that you have, then vote with your wallet and go somewhere else.
> 
> Technological advances will see new players in the market over the next ten years, and they will offer different types of viewing on a variety of new devices.
> 
> Personally, I've tried Comcast, U-verse, DISH and DirecTV. I choose to stay with DirecTV, but who knows what the future might hold.


Amen.

Post of the day. :up:


----------



## BattleScott

SledgeHammer said:


> That was an arbitrary number x. My point was not specific numbers. It was that they are passing ALL their increase PLUS additional to US. Their press release made it sound like they are doing us a favor by not passing on the full increase.


Exactly. The wording of the explanation was very contrived and definitely intended to make it seem as if they were doing us a huge favor by ONLY raising our rates 4% while theirs will go up 10% this year.

Why, that is very generous of them to eat the other 6% instead of charging us ALL of it!!! 

Not to mention the fact that the 10% is what the total amount that they pay is estimated to go up this year. That figure is a combination of per subscriber rate hikes as well as the per-subscriber cost increase that will come from additional subscribers. The cost increase associated with additional subscribers is already covered in their additonal revenue contribution. It is only a portion of that 10% increase that needs to be covered by rate increases to existing subscribers.

Think about it, if they pay disney ~$4 per sub for ESPN now, thats 960M per year assuming 20M subscribers. If that number goes to 21M, the $ number to disney goes up to 1.008B per year. That's a 5% increase in "what they pay" for EPSN, but is there any need to raise subscriber rates to compenstate? NO, because the extra 1M subs are also bringing in the addtional revenue.

And now you know how they can continue to post both revenue AND margin growth during this time of "out of control" cost hikes...


----------



## SledgeHammer

BattleScott said:


> Think about it, if they pay disney ~$4 per sub for ESPN now, thats 960M per year assuming 20M subscribers. If that number goes to 21M, the $ number to


I'd really like a sportless package as those channels are usually the most expensive and I don't use them.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Apparently the concept of tiered pricing is new to some folks... 

Speculating on revenue, costs, and distribution of programming fees can be fun for some - but it's only unfounded speculation....nothing more.

As for the real topic at hand - *TDK 1044 *said it best in his post.


----------



## RACJ2

zimm7778 said:


> If you have a digital tv you don't need their box do you?


True for most basic channels. Although our local TW cable seems to have moved some basic analog channels to digital and then encrypted them. And many of the people that have basic cable, probably have old analog TV's.


----------



## Bonneville44

I would like to see the Entertainment pack. Can hardly wait.


----------



## trh

BattleScott said:


> Exactly. The wording of the explanation was very contrived and definitely intended to make it seem as if they were doing us a huge favor by ONLY raising our rates 4% while theirs will go up 10% this year.
> 
> Why, that is very generous of them to eat the other 6% instead of charging us ALL of it!!!


They call that "spin". And you can't take 10% and subtract 4% to get 6%. You're comparing apples to oranges. As TDK1044 said, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet.


----------



## SledgeHammer

trh said:


> They call that "spin". And you can't take 10% and subtract 4% to get 6%. You're comparing apples to oranges. As TDK1044 said, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet.


You can't really. DirecTV and DISH are involved in price fixing / collusion  and are pretty much the same price. Unless you are going to go strictly OTA and/or netflix there is no viable alternative.


----------



## TBlazer07

Bonneville44 said:


> I would like to see the Entertainment pack. Can hardly wait.


 I agree, I don't know why it's such a big secret, it's not like they haven't decided what channels are going to be in it.


----------



## Devo1237

SledgeHammer said:


> You can't really. DirecTV and DISH are involved in price fixing / collusion  and are pretty much the same price. Unless you are going to go strictly OTA and/or netflix there is no viable alternative.


Lol, in that case, you should thank your lucky stars they don't charge you $200/mo. They got you over a barrel, apparently.


----------



## Shades228

SledgeHammer said:


> You can't really. DirecTV and DISH are involved in price fixing / collusion  and are pretty much the same price. Unless you are going to go strictly OTA and/or netflix there is no viable alternative.


 Do some quick math and tell me how much it would be for the AT250 and 6 dual tuner HD DVR's.

Now tell me how much it will be with Choice Xtra and 6 dual tuner HD DVR's.

Leave out whole home since DISH cannot provide that.


----------



## BattleScott

"trh" said:


> They call that "spin". And you can't take 10% and subtract 4% to get 6%. You're comparing apples to oranges. As TDK1044 said, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet.


Thats the whole point. That's exactly what they are trying to do. As I said before, the price increase doesn't bother me near as much as the disingenuous attempt to lay the blame on the providers and trying to paint themselves as heroes for not raising ours as much as theirs are going up.


----------



## Laxguy

BattleScott said:


> Thats the whole point. That's exactly what they are trying to do. As I said before, the price increase doesn't bother me near as much as the disingenuous attempt to lay the blame on the providers and trying to paint themselves as heroes for not raising ours as much as theirs are going up.


I don't get that they're posing heroic at all. It's just facts, and I don't get why you object so to the word "only".


----------



## BattleScott

"Laxguy" said:


> I don't get that they're posing heroic at all. It's just facts, and I don't get why you object so to the word "only".


"Our costs are going up 10%, but we're "only" raising yours 4%..."

I object to it because it is being used in an attempt to make the subscribers believe that they are only passing on a portion of their cost increases. That is simply not true, they will recoup their costs and then some.

You can give them a pass if you want, but to me, purposely attempting to mislead your customers that way is an unethical business practice, its basically false advertising.


----------



## Shades228

BattleScott said:


> "Our costs are going up 10%, but we're "only" raising yours 4%..."
> 
> I object to it because it is being used in an attempt to make the subscribers believe that they are only passing on a portion of their cost increases. That is simply not true, they will recoup their costs and then some.
> 
> You can give them a pass if you want, but to me, purposely attempting to mislead your customers that way is an unethical business practice, its basically false advertising.


Just because a company posts a profit doesn't mean that they aren't passing all of the increase on. DIRECTV's goal is not to break even it's to make a profit. So there's nothing misleading about the statement at all. They had an increase of 10% and they chose to only pass on 4% to the customer. They could have trimmed the other 6% with reducing retention credits, equipment savings, labor costs, or they could have chosen to eat the 6% in their reduced profit margin. It's nothing nefarious as you're attempting to make it out to be.

So their statement is factual just because you want to read more into the intent doesn't change that.


----------



## James Long

Shades228 said:


> They had an increase of 10% and they chose to only pass on 4% to the customer.


That's the trouble with the statement. They didn't only pass on 4% to the customer. They passed on the entire 10% programming cost increase. It just gets diluted in the math. There is a good chance that their 4% increase in billing will raise more money than their 10% increase in costs - dollar for dollar.

And yes, companies are allowed to make a profit. But were they not making a profit before this increase? If the rate increase was a true dollar for dollar increase they could continue to make the same profit as before - which would not be bad for the company. When the company wants to INCREASE their profits and pass it off as if they are giving their customers a discount it doesn't pass the fact check.

They are not passing on 4% of a 10% increase. They are passing on the entire increase. But the language they use is designed to make customers feel better about the increase. It is apparently working.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> I don't get that they're posing heroic at all. It's just facts, and I don't get why you object so to the word "only".


You're right...but some folks just like to endlessly battle about almost anything...even when their position is purely based on speculation.

TDK1044 said it best - if customers they don't like it...and it bothers them so much...they can always vote their wallet.


----------



## trh

BattleScott said:


> That is simply not true, they will recoup their costs and then some.


How are you calculating that? If you look at their 2010 Shareholder's report and add 10% to programming and 4% to subscription revenue, they end up losing money. But without seeing all the numbers, it is all speculation on our part.


----------



## BattleScott

"trh" said:


> How are you calculating that? If you look at their 2010 Shareholder's report and add 10% to programming and 4% to subscription revenue, they end up losing money. But without seeing all the numbers, it is all speculation on our part.


It's not speculation at all. You have to remember that the rates they pay are largely tied to current subscriber count. 
10% is the amount their payments are projected to increase this year. This 10% includes the amount they will need to pay for additional subscribers as well as any increase in actual per subscriber fees that go up after any carriage agreement renewals. Using a conservative estimate of ~1M new subs that's a 5% increase in cost just for new head count. So there needs to be a portion of that new subscriber revenue factored in as well and it's really closer to 5 to 7% that needs to be offset with subscriber rate increases.
The 5-7 is speculation of course, the concept that it is significantly less than 10 is fact. Since anything less than 9 makes it a profitable number, I think they are more than covered.


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## lparsons21

Shades228 said:


> Do some quick math and tell me how much it would be for the AT250 and 6 dual tuner HD DVR's.
> 
> Now tell me how much it will be with Choice Xtra and 6 dual tuner HD DVR's.
> 
> Leave out whole home since DISH cannot provide that.


Bogus comparison, imo. Should be AT250 vs Choice Ultra, or AT200 vs Choice Xtra. But here's a quickie.

Dish : 6 Vip612 (equiv to HR)= 5x$10= $50
AT250 $65
DVR service $6

Dish total : $121

Direct: 6 HRs = 5x$6 (today's price) = $30
Choice Ultra = $65
DVR Service = $7

Direct Total : $102 or $112 depending on HD free or not, which isn't a given at D*.

Of course, the prices at D* are going up a little, $1 more for each HR and $5(I think) for Ultra, so this month the total with D* would be around $112.


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## hdtvfan0001

In reality....without knowing the facts and specific numbers (which is confidential and not know to 99.9% of anyone here), ANY discussion of %, amounts, or comparisons in terms of what is passed on to consumers *is* speculation.

The original statement that DirecTV released reflects their stated numbers. No one here knows the numbers behind those numbers to actually determine their validity.

Speculate away...


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## Cyber36

Devo1237 said:


> Yep, I lost exactly one channel going from Total Choice to Choice Extra Classic:
> SonicTap: Carnaval Brasileiro (ch 877).
> 
> Meanwhile the channels I gained were:
> bio
> Boomerang
> CBS College Sports
> Centric
> Chiller
> Cloo (which i think will go away on the 9th)
> Discovery Fit & Health
> DIY
> Documentary Channel
> Fox Movie Channel
> FuelTV
> Golf Channel
> GAC
> H2
> hub
> LOGO
> Military Channel
> mun2
> Nat Geo Wild
> NBA TV
> NHL Channel
> NickToons
> Ovation
> Oxygen (not sure if that was in TC)
> Sprout
> Planet Green
> Speed
> Style
> Tennis Channel
> Sportsman Channel
> TVG
> VH1 Classic
> +22 additional SonicTap music channels


That's funny - I've been getting Chiller & NBA TV, Nicktoons, Oxygen, & Speed all along......


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## lparsons21

Now let's do a bit of a speculative costing of D* vs E* with the HR34 + 5 Hxxx versus a 2 Hopper+3 Joeys. The costs associated on the E* side are speculative, but based on some info from the 'other' site.

Direct = $35 Lease fees + $75 Ultra + $10 MRV = $120

Dish = $35 Lease Fees + $70 T250 + $10 MRV = $115

Basically both posts show that the number and type of equipment in the case of E* has a big effect on total cost vs D*. And that is as expected because E* has never been known to be cheaper when bigger installs are involved.

You can't even lease more than 3 dual-tuner sat receivers from them, you have to purchase above that.


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## harsh

Shades228 said:


> Now tell me how much it will be with Choice Xtra and 6 dual tuner HD DVR's.


Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


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## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> Now let's do a bit of a speculative costing of D* vs E* with the HR34 + 5 Hxxx versus a 2 Hopper+3 Joeys. The costs associated on the E* side are speculative, but based on some info from the 'other' site.
> 
> ...


That's not a fair comparison for either one, IMO. A HR34 + 5 HR2x = 15 tuners for the same price if the HR2x were just H2x (10 tuners). And the 2 Hopper + 3 Joeys = 6 tuners. (Joeys use Hopper tuners like RVU clients use HR34 tuners)

With such diverse possible combinations it's hard to make comparisons. :lol:
Both have their benefits.


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## sigma1914

harsh said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


A 6 member household, which isn't too uncommon with extended families.


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## MurrayW

harsh said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


Someone who wants to record and watch all NFL Sunday ticket games each week. That's me (except I only have 5).  I'll be getting an HR34 before the next season starts to replace one of my HR2x's.


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## Devo1237

Cyber36 said:


> That's funny - I've been getting Chiller & NBA TV, Nicktoons, Oxygen, & Speed all along......


Really? I definitely never had NBA TV (except maybe when I was subscribing to the sports pack). The weird thing is the CSR I spoke to when upgrading also said that I would be adding B10 Network, HDNet, and NBC Sports, all of which I've always received. I guess everyone is confused about what exactly is in the Total Choice package.

Regardless, the point is I didn't lose any channels going to Choice Extra Classic (except the one Brazilian music channel) but I gained several that I'd been eyeing, and it won't cost me anything for a year.


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## Devo1237

MurrayW said:


> Someone who wants to record and watch all NFL Sunday ticket games each week. That's me (except I only have 5).  I'll be getting an HR34 before the next season starts to replace one of my HR2x's.


Wow, do you actually watch every game? I respect your dedication. Talk about getting your moneys worth.


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## trh

harsh said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


We have five DVRs and one H25 receiver -- and not because of any distrust of the equipment. Just totally different viewing habits.


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## chick3112215

sigma1914 said:


> A 6 member household, which isn't too uncommon with extended families.


We have 4 ppl in our house and have 5 HD DVRS and 1 HD receiver active and 2 R22x's (owned) in a closet as spares. so 6 units are nit uncomon


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## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


*No one.*

Then again....NEED is a subjective term.

I know a number of folks who have that many (or more) HD DVRs by choice - in some cases as limited backup recording units for content they enjoy viewing more than once . In most cases, its to record a wider slection of content that let's them choose among that inventory or perhaps delete it later. I'm not one of them by the way.

That said - if they *can* do it, *choose* to do it....who has the right to question it?

*No one.*


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## inkahauts

"harsh" said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


I have seven, and not one is set to record something that another records. Your assumptions are totally wrong, as usual.


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## Shades228

harsh said:


> Other than someone with an insuperable distrust of the equipment they use, who would need six HD DVRs?


6 is the minimum I would have even without sports. I have 4 kids and then my wife and I would need our own to avoid conflicts.

Now let's add that I love sports and on football sundays I need 4 of my own just to keep the games I want on the tv's I want. So that means I need a minimum of 9 to do what I really want.

I never concern myself with equipment failures and I don't have duplicate recordings on any of my DVR's. I don't even use them as archive devices and keep stuff for years.

Once you have HD DVR's in every room you realise what you would actually give up and with DIRECTV all you pay is $6 a month more than your normal bill.

If you think my situation is extreme use 3 instead and tell me the price.


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## mavs-fan

Devo1237 said:


> I guess everyone is confused about what exactly is in the Total Choice package.


It sounds like there may be some confusion as some people had/have Total Choice (which eventually became "Choice") and Total Choice Plus (which eventually became "Choice Xtra".)


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## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> That's not a fair comparison for either one, IMO. A HR34 + 5 HR2x = 15 tuners for the same price if the HR2x were just H2x (10 tuners). And the 2 Hopper + 3 Joeys = 6 tuners. (Joeys use Hopper tuners like RVU clients use HR34 tuners)
> 
> With such diverse possible combinations it's hard to make comparisons. :lol:
> Both have their benefits.


You're right, it isn't a fair comparison that would be difficult to do right now. But when/if D* comes out with an RVU box, then a comparison could be made betwixt the Hopper/Joey vs HR34/RVU box. Hopefully that will come soon.

BTW, if you have 2 Hoppers in the system, the total effective tuners is 6 all the time, and 9 during PrimeTime. So not such a bad comparison with HR34+5 Hx receivers/RVU box.

I have a few friends that are also installers, and they say that regardless of which sat service is being installed, the majority are no more than 2 boxes with D* an HR and an H and MRV is becoming pretty common. With E*, generally an HDDVR of one sort or another and a 2nd receiver.

Here's what I think E* will do going forward, although I don't know just when it will start. The Hopper will become the go to box for all installs, and just kill off what they don't subscribe to (ie; HD or MRV). Add Joeys for some, 2nd Hopper for others, but start with a single Hopper. This has a huge advantage for E* in cost containment both from the initial install through the tech support later.


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## z28lt1

chick3112215 said:


> We have 4 ppl in our house and have 5 HD DVRS and 1 HD receiver active and 2 R22x's (owned) in a closet as spares. so 6 units are nit uncomon


6 HD DVRs here as well. With whole home, one or two record very little, but we like to be able to pause/rewind, use dual tuners, on each tv.


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## Devo1237

mavs-fan said:


> It sounds like there may be some confusion as some people had/have Total Choice (which eventually became "Choice") and Total Choice Plus (which eventually became "Choice Xtra".)


Actually, "Total Choice" never became "Choice." It still exists as a grandfathered package, and will continue to exist after Feb 9. "Total Choice Plus" also still exists, but will become "Choice Extra Classic" on Feb 9 (merging with the current "Choice Extra" that has the same exact channels). They will then come out with new "Choice Extra" for new customers/signups that will cost the same amount as Classic, but most likely contain fewer channels.

I think it's clear as mud. :lol:


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## z28lt1

Still no word on the new Choice Extra? I'm on one of the very old total choice packages, and am trying to decide if I want to move to the Extra Classic before the change, or stick with the grandfathered package.


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## Devo1237

z28lt1 said:


> Still no word on the new Choice Extra? I'm on one of the very old total choice packages, and am trying to decide if I want to move to the Extra Classic before the change, or stick with the grandfathered package.


Yeah, I was in the same boat, but I just gave up and upgraded to Extra Classic before the opportunity is gone. I figured I can always change to a new package later if for so reason the new Extra is a better deal. The question you have to ask yourself is do you want to get in on the Extra Classic deal for $4.50 more than Total Choice before it's no longer an option to upgrade. We know what channels that one will have at least.


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## falconress

Does anyone know what part of a DTV subscription is subject to tax (New York, in my case)? Equipment, programming, installation? I thought it was all leased, so what is the tax based on?

The CSR today wanted to charge me $20 for S&H, then add $10 that she called "taxes." She didn't know any additional details. If I have to call to find out more, which department should I ask for?

TIA.


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## TBlazer07

z28lt1 said:


> Still no word on the new Choice Extra? I'm on one of the very old total choice packages, and am trying to decide if I want to move to the Extra Classic before the change, or stick with the grandfathered package.


Found this Googling. These are the new packages:


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## dpeters11

falconress said:


> Does anyone know what part of a DTV subscription is subject to tax (New York, in my case)? Equipment, programming, installation? I thought it was all leased, so what is the tax based on?
> 
> The CSR today wanted to charge me $20 for S&H, then add $10 that she called "taxes." She didn't know any additional details. If I have to call to find out more, which department should I ask for?
> 
> TIA.


The tax can be on anything really. Some states, NY may be one, basically levies a tax because it's not cable service. You get one guess on what industry had that idea...

I think this is also why even though the primary receiver is free, it's charged then credited for tax purposes.


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## ejjames

I have always had the "Choice Extra" package. I notice that golf channel has moved up to "ultimate". Will I lose golf, or am I somehow "grandfathered" in? When do these packages take effect again?


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## Davenlr

Your package will be renamed Choice Extra Classic, and should only lose 1 channel (Cloo).
It goes into effect on your first billing date after tomorrow.


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## ejjames

Thanks. I don't know if I've even heard of Cloo. 

Remember in the good ole days when it was silver, gold or platinum?


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## dpeters11

ejjames said:


> Thanks. I don't know if I've even heard of Cloo.


It used to be called Sleuth, part of NBCUniversal and now Comcast.


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## xzi

dpeters11 said:


> The tax can be on anything really. Some states, NY may be one, basically levies a tax because it's not cable service. You get one guess on what industry had that idea...
> 
> I think this is also why even though the primary receiver is free, it's charged then credited for tax purposes.


I'm in NY and I pay 80 cents a month in taxes on a $120 bill so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


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## falconress

xzi said:


> I'm in NY and I pay 80 cents a month in taxes on a $120 bill so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


I called and they said it's a one-time thing, so it's probably related to the value of the "free" installation. They don't itemize it on the bill though, just put the amount of the tax.

I have Dish now, and IIRC, I don't pay any tax at all. I'm guessing it's because I own the equipment, and the monthly charge is for programming only.



dpeters11 said:


> The tax can be on anything really. ....


:lol: That's exactly what it looks like. I realize it's based on the cost of something they're giving me for "free," but they take great pains to itemize all the rest of the "free" stuff and then deduct the amounts so it looks good. This item is just stuck there, no explanation of what is being taxed.



ejjames said:


> Thanks. I don't know if I've even heard of Cloo.


Every time I hear that name, I think "loo," which is probably not what their management intended. It's a channel that shows reruns of everything they can fit into the "detective" category, from Charlie's Angels to Monk to Burn Notice. Of course, they also have some of the CSI's and Law & Orders, which seem to have an episode airing on some channel somewhere 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I don't know if Cloo has original content, but if you miss Farrah Fawcett - and I do! - you can catch up on Cloo.

IMO, certainly not worth getting a more expensive package just for this, because a lot of their shows also air on other channels. But it seems to go bundled in the same packages as Chiller, which, among other hidden, not-so-often-seen treasures, has Buffy(! :hurah and Millenium.


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## la24philly

I saw directv new prices are now in effect. They also added a New package.

they now have 5.

the Entertainment package is now the newest package and it has about 10 channels fewer then Choice.

One thing I noticed you don't get your local RSN.

I pulled up each chanel package side by side and I was using zipcode 27804 MASN and FSN Crolina is the local RSN for that zip. When you pull up the channels side by side you don't get any local RSN, THE choice is the first package that shows you getting a local RSN.


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## mreposter

bye bye super-fuzzy cloo-sd.


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## dpeters11

"falconress" said:


> Every time I hear that name, I think "loo," which is probably not what their management intended. It's a channel that shows reruns of everything they can fit into the "detective" category, from Charlie's Angels to Monk to Burn Notice. Of course, they also have some of the CSI's and Law & Orders, which seem to have an episode airing on some channel somewhere 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.


It used to be Sleuth, but they felt that was too generic. "Clue" is also pretty generic and issues with the board game. Cloo is at least unique. But that doesn't fix that it's in SD.


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## MattScahum

falconress said:


> Does anyone know what part of a DTV subscription is subject to tax (New York, in my case)? Equipment, programming, installation? I thought it was all leased, so what is the tax based on?
> 
> The CSR today wanted to charge me $20 for S&H, then add $10 that she called "taxes." She didn't know any additional details. If I have to call to find out more, which department should I ask for?
> 
> TIA.


Delivery and handling is $19.95 plus local sales tax, so usually between 21.15-21.95...There are some states (florida,new york, tennessee, missouri, wisconsin, washington and I believe arkansas) that charge tax on the value of the installation. I have family that lives in tennessee that has told me they see a similar charge on their monthly gas/electric bills.
on your monthly bill, you won't see that charge since it is only charged on install value. You should only pay whatever your state and local taxes are, mine totals around 7% or so in my area.


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## falconress

MattScahum said:


> Delivery and handling is $19.95 plus local sales tax, so usually between 21.15-21.95...There are some states (florida,new york, tennessee, missouri, wisconsin, washington and I believe arkansas) that charge tax on the value of the installation. I have family that lives in tennessee that has told me they see a similar charge on their monthly gas/electric bills.
> on your monthly bill, you won't see that charge since it is only charged on install value. You should only pay whatever your state and local taxes are, mine totals around 7% or so in my area.


Thanks. I figured out that $10.38 is sales tax, in my state, on $116.95, which I guess is the value of the installation. But anyway, once I understood that it's a one-time thing and won't turn into a monthly mystery charge, I'm over it.


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## dminches

Today I noticed a charge on my on line bill "Regional Sports Fee - Charge - $2.00". Is this new or is it just a pro rata portion of the monthly $10 sports package fee?


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## Blurayfan

"dminches" said:


> Today I noticed a charge on my on line bill "Regional Sports Fee - Charge - $2.00". Is this new or is it just a pro rata portion of the monthly $10 sports package fee?


What package do you subscribe to? That fee appears to be for getting your regional sports channel that is not included in your base package.


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## dminches

Blurayfan said:


> What package do you subscribe to? That fee appears to be for getting your regional sports channel that is not included in your base package.


Total choice with locals.

As far as I know this charge is new.


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## Blurayfan

"dminches" said:


> Total choice with locals.
> 
> As far as I know this charge is new.


The change could be a result of the new prices and channels being removed from lower packages (Golf, Cloo, etc.). You may want to call and have a CSR check your account to find out the reason for the charge.


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## dminches

I guess I don't know how they could charge me for something unless I sign up for it. I am paying the new price on my package, but if a channel has been eliminated that I would assume I just wouldn't get it. I will call them if it ends up on my bill.


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## ChicagoBlue

dminches said:


> Today I noticed a charge on my on line bill "Regional Sports Fee - Charge - $2.00". Is this new or is it just a pro rata portion of the monthly $10 sports package fee?


It's new. Was announced with their pricing increase but it only impacts certain parts of the country. Where they have very high RSN costs they are imposing that fee if you have a base package that has RSNs in it. The New York area, for example, where there are four RSNs (SNY, MSG, MSG+, YES) would have it but a place like Phoenix with just one RSN would not.


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## dminches

Thanks for the info! I hadn't read that. On my account page I cannot see where is talks about the price increase.


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## gomezma1

I switched to the entertainment package but lost my RSN. Can I pay the $2 and get it back?


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## Shades228

gomezma1 said:


> I switched to the entertainment package but lost my RSN. Can I pay the $2 and get it back?


No you would need to choose a package with the RSN's in it or add the sports pack.


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## kevinturcotte

Shades228 said:


> No you would need to choose a package with the RSN's in it or add the sports pack.


Hmmm-can I just drop ALL sports from my package and save some money? :lol:


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## Shades228

kevinturcotte said:


> Hmmm-can I just drop ALL sports from my package and save some money? :lol:


Family Package


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## kevinturcotte

Shades228 said:


> Family Package


Yeah, but then I lose all the other channels I want  lol


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## Tubaman-Z

The best thing about the annual price increase is it reminds me to not blindly continue with the same number of DVRs, services, and channel package. I sit down and review what we have, what we really desire, and we decide to keep or move down in cost (or remain the same in cost if it offsets the increase). Right now it looks like we can move from the former Total Choice Plus (now Choice Extra Classic) to Choice Extra. In the fall when our daughter heads off to college I expect we'll reduce another DVR as well. So - thanks DTV for this annual reminder.


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## bigtom

"Tubaman-Z" said:


> The best thing about the annual price increase is it reminds me to not blindly continue with the same number of DVRs, services, and channel package. I sit down and review what we have, what we really desire, and we decide to keep or move down in cost (or remain the same in cost if it offsets the increase). Right now it looks like we can move from the former Total Choice Plus (now Choice Extra Classic) to Choice Extra. In the fall when our daughter heads off to college I expect we'll reduce another DVR as well. So - thanks DTV for this annual reminder.


There is no savings by moving from Choice Xtra Classic to the new Choice Xtra.


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## Old_School

Cloo seems to be the only channel that continues to have Chuck Norris marathons.... What would tv be without chuck norris... lol


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## Tubaman-Z

bigtom said:


> There is no savings by moving from Choice Xtra Classic to the new Choice Xtra.


Thanks - My mistake. I meant from Choice Extra Classic to Choice.


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## Satelliteracer

"bigtom" said:


> There is no savings by moving from Choice Xtra Classic to the new Choice Xtra.


You would lose channels as well by doing this


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## Jon J

Just before the package changes there were some suggesting last minute changes from Total Choice Plus to Choice Extra. I didn't do it and it looks like it was a wise move.


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## Davenlr

Jon J said:


> Just before the package changes there were some suggesting last minute changes from Total Choice Plus to Choice Extra. I didn't do it and it looks like it was a wise move.


Would not have made any difference if you had. They both got renamed to Choice Extra Classic at the same price.

I moved from Ultimate to Choice Xtra before the increase so I could get locked into the grandfathered package and save a little money to offset the increase.


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## dpeters11

"Jon J" said:


> Just before the package changes there were some suggesting last minute changes from Total Choice Plus to Choice Extra. I didn't do it and it looks like it was a wise move.


I think some people moved upgraded from Total Choice to Xtra to get Classic.


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## BattleScott

So 2012 costs are projected to increase less than 2011, but our increase is higher.


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## JPStokes

I went to down to Choice to offset the increases. I'll do without a few stations. 
Weird, every time I start seriously thinking about switching to HD DTV, they raise rates and I get upset and stick to my old R15, crummy picture, but I'll live with it.


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## Beachcomber12

I stil have several months left on my 2 year sign up I have the premier pkg. my bill went up $5. Called and told them my prices were still locked in. They said they could not change the price increase. So she offered $10 off for 6 months. I took it. Will call back in 6 months


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## dpeters11

Did they do a two year price guarantee then? I k ow they did one recently, but thought it was the first time they had that promotion.


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## Beachcomber12

The first 3 months were dirt cheap. Then went up about $20. I can not remember all the steps. But I know the first 14 months had discounted prices. Then the last 10 months had the full price.


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## Que

1998 Total choice PLATINUM 47.99
1999 Total Choice $29.99
2000 Total Choice $31.99
2003 Total Choice $33.99 $4.99 DVR service $4.99 Additional Receiver 
2004 Total Choice $36.99 
2005 Total Choice $41.99 
2006 Total Choice $44.99 $5.99 DVR Service 
2007 Total Choice $47.99 
2008 Total Choice $50.99 
2009 Total Choice $53.99 $6.00 DVR Service $5.00 Additional Receiver 
2010 Total Choice $57.49 $7.00 DVR Service 
2011 Total Choice $60.49 $7.00 DVR Service $6.00x2 Additional Receiver
2012 Total Choice $64.49 $8.00 DVR Sevice $6.00x2


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