# 622 ATSC Tuner



## Jim148 (Jun 22, 2004)

I have noticed that the 622 seems to have a very good OTA tuner. I have experience with several ATSC tuners, some DISH and some not. They would include:

-US Digital/Hisense DB-2010 (Wal*Mart carried it)

-LG LST-3510A

-DISH 811s

-DISH 622

-integral ATSC tuner in Panasonic TH-42PD50U

-integral ATSC tuner in Sanyo PDP-42WV1ASB

The performance of the tuners in the various units seems to vary considerably. I realize that I probably don't have an optimum antenna set-up. When we bought our home about it had a dual-band log periodic in the attic. Some months back I swapped it out for a Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna, but it is still in the attic above the attached garage. We are about 20 miles from most of the transmitters according to http://www.antennaweb.org, but one of them is a little more than 50 miles. (Most of them are 355/357 degrees, but the 50 mile station is 324 degrees.) Anyway, when I did the first channel scan of local over the air digital broadcast stations, I got ALL 22 channels that I wanted! I don't think that has ever happened with ANY of the tuners that I have used in the past. From what I seem to recall reading in the past, I was quite likely having issues with MPDI (multi-path distortion interference). With the other units I had to tweak the antenna. I would move it a little bit one way and gain some channels and lose some others, but not so with the 622. I was ever so slightly disappointed that the 622 doesn't stall have the old NTSC tuner, but it is not a real big deal to me. There are a few channels that are NTSC only, but they are low power and not of great interest to me, but I can still get them with the NTSC tuner built in to my Panasonic TV set.


----------



## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Jim148 said:


> I have noticed that the 622 seems to have a very good OTA tuner. I have experience with several ATSC tuners, some DISH and some not. They would include:
> 
> -US Digital/Hisense DB-2010 (Wal*Mart carried it)
> 
> ...


That's amazing. The 622 OTA I have is the worst I have ever seen. My locals are only about 5 miles away, and I can not lock a signal. The 811 OTA I had no problem..

Fred


----------



## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

fmcomputer said:


> That's amazing. The 622 OTA I have is the worst I have ever seen. My locals are only about 5 miles away, and I can not lock a signal.


 Many people have commented that the 622's ATSC tuner seems to be very high quality. With your stations being so close and you're unable to lock on to thei signals, don't you think there might be a fault with your receiver vs just calling it "the worst you've ever seen" ??


----------



## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

I've noticed the 622 tuner is much better than my TV ATSC tuner or the tuner in my 811.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

One problem that is evident with the 622 is, it's inflexibility to work with the digital TV stations channels that are having problems with channel mapping. Other receivers will work, but with the 622 it is black screen and no audio. The 622 displays the error screen for lost signal. In Local Channels (Add Channels), there will be a strong signal bar but red in color, or the bar will be green and the channel number will be blank.


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Of my three ATSC tuners, the 622's is the best.


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

fmcomputer said:


> That's amazing. The 622 OTA I have is the worst I have ever seen. My locals are only about 5 miles away, and I can not lock a signal. The 811 OTA I had no problem..
> 
> Fred


Fred,

It could be that the signals for your 622 are too strong. Have you tried an attenuator?

My 622's tuner pulls in stations from outside my market with a watchable signal (mid 60s) that my Sony tuner can't even see (signal strength of zero).


----------



## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Bill R said:


> Fred,
> 
> It could be that the signals for your 622 are too strong. Have you tried an attenuator?
> 
> My 622's tuner pulls in stations from outside my market with a watchable signal (mid 60s) that my Sony tuner can't even see (signal strength of zero).


I can sit here all day and watch OTA on my Samsung DLP with no problem. When I use the 622 OTA can not get a lock. I have had 4 tech's and 3 different boxes, and I still have the same problem. I have tried attenuators, 3 different antennas.
I don't know what else to do...
Fred


----------



## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

fmcomputer said:


> That's amazing. The 622 OTA I have is the worst I have ever seen. My locals are only about 5 miles away, and I can not lock a signal. The 811 OTA I had no problem..
> 
> Fred


Need to know more about your system. What does the 622 say when you tune to a local channel? What does the signal level look like on the local station. Does the signal level go up and down a lot. Just for curiosity sake what type of ant do U have and is it run direct or thru a duplexer set up?


----------



## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I'm in the 5-8 mile range from most of Seattle's towers and my OTA reception is fine. My first suggestion is to hit the AVS Forum and look for the OTA thread for your local area. The Seattle thread is absolutely awesome. Engineers from a couple of the major stations post and we've got twin gurus on antenna knowledge that regularly help folks out with solutions.

Second, if your serious about getting good reception, your best bet is to have a professional installer look over your situation. Not going to be the cheapest solution, but particularly if you've got topography that can cause problems with multipath, it's likely to give you the best result. It's best to have all of your channels scoped as what's important isn't "perceived" signal strength, but rather signal to noise. My installer tried several different antennas and several different locations until we found the sweet spot. I have huge fir trees. I'm a happy camper.

Good luck.

John


----------



## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Well I guess after being in the computer repair and assembly business for over 20 years, and a HAM operator. I figured a component sould just work. Not spend a ton of money to justify the component. I'am sure you are aware that there are some components better that others.. I have no choice in this matter but to spend additional funds to get this thing to work.. I will find a solution.. Thanks for your suggestions....

Fred


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Fred,

The 622 came with an antennuator that is supplied for use with the TV2 RF output modulator. If you have not, you may try attaching the antennuator to the 622 OTA RF input to see if that improves the ability for the 622 to acquire and lock on the channels your are having difficulty in receiving.

John


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

The problem could be multipath. Somtimes a good signal that has strong multipath will cause a channel not to lock. Fred, have you tried something like UHF rabbit ears on your 622 to see if you can get the signal to lock in?


----------



## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

I understand what you all are saying, but this is what I don't understand. If you have (2) components that work ( TV OTA Tuner & Dish 811 OTA Tuner) from a single source, theoretlcally the 622 OTA should work with the same source. Don't you think............

Fred


----------



## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

fmcomputer said:


> I understand what you all are saying, but this is what I don't understand. If you have (2) components that work ( TV OTA Tuner & Dish 811 OTA Tuner) from a single source, theoretlcally the 622 OTA should work with the same source. Don't you think............
> 
> Fred


Just cause 1 device works doesn't mean the other will. Example your being in computer business Does a PC work the same as a MAC. They are both computers so they should work the same. Do the 2 computers have the same chip sets? Does the TV have the same set up at the 811? Both of them have the same answer, NO. One could have a chip that discriminates differently than another. 1 more example I have 4 HDTV OTA tuners. 2 are identical and work pretty much the same 2 are totally different and both work differently than the rest. It's just called when the units were made the engineers make different choices of what is important to them.


----------



## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

My logic, Then I will Drop the subject as I was requested to do.
Say you have broadband comming into a client with (4) computers using a switch and router. You connect the first 3 and they work. The 4th system does not work. Are you going to call the broadband source and complain, or trouble shoot the 4th system.. I would correct the problem with the 4th system.

Fred


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Fred, you don't have to drop the subject. I was getting annoyed with you because you posted the same thing in just about every thread that came through yesterday morning. 

The problem is that there can be significant differences between ATSC tuners that are used in different components. They aren't nearly as standardized as network cards and routers are, as per your example. One tuner may be very finely tuned so that it picks up a signal with a higher signal strength than another one, but doesn't do nearly as well at multipath rejection, so even with it having a higher signal strength, if it's used in an area with severe multipath, it won't receive the signal. The tuner in your Samsung is not the same tuner that's in your 622. 

So, we're trying to help you troubleshoot the side of the problem that you can do something about. So, back to the beginning. What antenna are you currently using from 5 miles away, and where is it located? What other antennas have you tried? What is the terrain in a 5 mile radius around you like? Lots of hills? Tall buildings? Tall trees? Are you using an amplified antenna? 

From 5 miles away from towers if your stations are broadcasting at full power or nearly full power, you should be able to receive them with nothing more than a little stub antenna plugged in.


----------



## midwest_dxer (Dec 12, 2004)

My boss just had a Dish1000 system installed.One of the units is a 622.The ATSC tuner refuses to tune a VHF digital on Ch9 without constant dropouts/pixellation.I hooked one of my stand-alone tuners up,and a direct run to the Samsung tv.Both have no problem.There's plenty of clean signal available.

I called a buddy of mine that installs Dish systems and he said he installed two 622's and the same problem arose.

Anyone have problems with VHF digital channels,specifically Highband?


----------



## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I have a digital station on VHF channel 9 and I pick it up with no problems using the 622. I am only a few miles from the transmitters however. And of course, be sure you have a VHF antenna. Almost all digital stations in our area are UHF and many people are installing UHF only antennas.


----------



## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

fmcomputer said:


> I understand what you all are saying, but this is what I don't understand. If you have (2) components that work ( TV OTA Tuner & Dish 811 OTA Tuner) from a single source, theoretlcally the 622 OTA should work with the same source. Don't you think............
> 
> Fred


Theoretically, but there are differences. When people are describing the 622 as an excellent tuner, they're talking about its ability to pull in distant signals. That, however, isn't your problem... you're very very close to your station so that goodness doesn't help. The other components may be better at getting a lock on multipath signals, which might be better for your particular antenna situation.

Unfortunately, an attenuator is simply going to decrease the main signal at the same rate as the multipathed signal so that doesn't really help. I believe the normal "fix" for this is a highly directional antenna so that you can pick up signals only from one direction and reject the bounced signals.


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

koralis said:


> Unfortunately, an attenuator is simply going to decrease the main signal at the same rate as the multipathed signal so that doesn't really help. I believe the normal "fix" for this is a highly directional antenna so that you can pick up signals only from one direction and reject the bounced signals.


While it is true that an attenuator will decrease all signals the reason why it sometimes fixes the problem is that it decreses the multipath signal enough so that the tuner does not try to lock onto it. Unless the antenna is severely mis-aimed the multipath will likely always be weaker than the non multipath signal. Just getting rid of "enough" of it is usually the fix.

I agree that an directional antenna is usually the best solution but if you have stations in several directions it can be an expensive solution (multiple antennas).


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I have an ATSC station on channel 9 about 6 miles away, and I pick it up with a meter reading of 99-100 on my 622 off the side (15 degrees left) of a Radio Shack U-75R with a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp. All my other stations are UHF and actually have lower readings.


----------



## midwest_dxer (Dec 12, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> I have an ATSC station on channel 9 about 6 miles away, and I pick it up with a meter reading of 99-100 on my 622 off the side (15 degrees left) of a Radio Shack U-75R with a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp. All my other stations are UHF and actually have lower readings.


Thanks to both respondents concerning Ch9.It certainly has me baffled.I've used/seen a lot of different tuners in this area and none of them have a problem with WISH DT-9.The engineer at the station says all looks ok on his end.

The 622 locks on the psip ok,but constantly pixelates,except for occassional steady frames.The signal is not tremendous as we are 55mi from the transmitter.The VHF Highbander is attic mounted at 35ft AGL,but it's the largest available on the planet(13ft w/rear reflector).

The only other thing that may be causing a problem is an analog on 9 from Cinn,about 55mi in the opposite direction.Maybe the 622 just can't do the dance!

midwest dx


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

fmcomputer said:


> My logic, Then I will Drop the subject as I was requested to do. ...


Seems you've made up your mind that Dish has somehow designed an OTA receiver that is defective. Glad you are dropping the subject and not accepting other views.


----------



## samchecker (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm a newbie here but have been reading these forums for a bit to help catch up. I've experienced the same thing as others here as far as the OTA signals go. Before I even signed up for Dish, I bought a cheapie RCA amplified "HDTV" antenna from Target and hooked it up to my Sony WEGA projection TV, which has a built-in HD tuner. I pulled in every local digital signal without even fooling with the antenna. As that was about the last stumbling block I had with Dish (since they don't offer local HD channels here), I took the plunge and got the Dish 100/ViP 622 setup. Hooking up the exact same antenna sitting in the exact same place as before to the 622 gave me *much* different results...lower signal strength on most of the digital channels. So, I went ahead and bought the indoor/outdoor Radio Shack antenna the installer recommended and hooked it up. 
It did work better, but only when I moved the antenna to the next room to get it away from one wall that's between the antenna and all of the transmitter towers in my area.

I then took the cheapie RCA antenna and hooked it up directly to my Insignia 27'' LCD TV upstairs. Once again, it pulled in every local digital channel beautifully.

It's hard not to conclude that the tuner in the 622 doesn't work as well. Don't get me wrong...I like the box, but it seems to be lacking in this area. If there's a tip I'm missing here, I'm all ears.


----------

