# Windows XP going end of life



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I am looking at my desktop gizmo, and it is telling me that 99 days remain before Windows XP goes End-Of-Life and receives no more patches. Considering that the operating system has lasted 13 years, well.... and to think, 13 years prior to 2001 would be 1988.... time to wax nostalgic... or hear the whining of people and businesses who have "perfectly running why should I replace" several year old computers.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The new operating systems and chips are so much faster than the ones used when XP was being sold is reason enough to change.
I still have a machine with a Pentium 4 chip , 3 Ghz, 1 gig of ram and XP Pro on it. My machine I am on now is like a rabbit compared to a turtle as far as speed is concerned.
The new software has so much less problems with hangups and the dreaded blue screen that is frequent with XP it is reason enough to change.

My son bought a laptop for $249 on Good Friday. It will play an online game with Windows 8 and a Celeron ( bottom of the line ) chip in it that back when he used XP we had to purchase a $400 plus video card to get the game to play smoothly on it.

My opinion is that a company should change business PCs about every 5 years. The increase in speed and reliability pays for themselves.
Long ago when you could add a coprocessor to your machine I was designing a part and my boss wanted to put in his 2 cents worth. I had told him we should buy a chip and put in the machine and it would pay for itself. Back then the coprocessor was $100. Each time we would zoom into the area of the item we were working on in the CADD system it would take it 13 seconds to redraw all the lines. Then we would zoom out and see how it worked with the other parts. 13 seconds again. After sitting there with me all day he told me to get the chip since we spent most of the day waiting on the machine to redraw the lines.
I bought the chip and had it FED-X next day. It arrived about 8:30 and I shut down my machine and installed it. Now the zoom in and out took 4 seconds. That $100 chip almost tripled the work I could turn out on this one project.
The machine I am on now does that same operation so fast you can not put a watch on it. It is instant.
Every now and then I crank up the old pc with the XP and the Pentium 4, 3Ghz processor and often wonder if it is broke before it finally gets up and running.

The one thing I do not like is that the new operating systems often obsolete your printers and scanners. Then again my old printer did 4 pages per minute and my new printer does 23 pages per minute. The new printer also is a scanner, copier, fax and printer and is capable of operating wirelessly. Of course I no longer work and do not care how fast my printer is but I do love the super fast new computers and operating systems.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I finally caved and updated my last two XP machines, a 2006 Thinkpad T60 I use every day and a 2007 Dell Inspiron I keep around as a spare. They both have the same dual-core Pentiums, but the Thinkpad has 2.5 gigs of memory and the Dell 2 gigs. I updated them both to Win 7 four years ago, but I didn't think either machine was as "snappy" running 7 as when it was running XP SP3, so I reverted back to XP. I did install Win 7 on my desktop PC, to keep at least one machine on the latest OS.

Now that support for XP is gone, I was forced to upgrade the laptops and I'm pleasantly surprised they no longer feel "slower" than XP. Makes me wonder if SP1 for Win 7 brought some performance enhancements along with it? Or perhaps the apps I run have been optimized since then? Either way, I'm a happy camper.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I had to install a VMware / virtual 7 to run some programs that wouldn't install on the desktop of Win 8.1. While Microsoft's Hyper-V is included on 8, it wouldn't allow the USB devices to work.

Speaking of XP, I spent the weekend getting a friend's old Dell / XP Home back up to find an old file. Diskette / 20 GB drive / 256 MB RAM. But the Dell was built like a brick house!

It didn't even have IE installed on it! It was used around 2000 for a very specific office function.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

I have an old HP/Compaq laptop that works well with XP, but can't be upgraded due to some hardware incompatibilities. I have an old Visioneer scanner hooked up to it, which is no longer supported. This scanner does a great job on negatives and slides. In addition, I have Works 2005 and Calendar Creator 12 installed, neither of which is supported on my desktop running Windows 8.1. I'll simply avoid going online with the laptop. I'll still be able to connect to my printers on my home network.
Problem solved.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I have one old Dell Optiplex running XP Pro right now, on about .75GB RAm / 400MHz PII CPU. The ONLY reason it's even up at all right now is that is the only PC that can operate the old HP SCSI scanner. The wife's work PC, her home PC, and my desktop are all running Win7 Pro (mine 64 bit, her laptops 32 bit), and her netbook is running XP Home - haven't seriously checked if the netbook can run ANY version of Win7.

Edit
Well - it appears that a 32 bit version of Win7 can be installed on the Netbook - just got to find the money for it...


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

If it's not connected to the Internet or internal network, there really isn't much risk.

The biggest issue will be that as fixes come out for Windows 7 etc, many of these issues will also affect XP. The bad guys will be able to figure out what the fix is for and exploit it in XP. It won't take much.

I've gotten rid of all my 2003 servers as well, thy are either on 2008 or 2012 now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'm doing a new backup of my mores files now, going to do Win 7 tomorrow. It would be so much easier if I could just upgrade. And I know that clean install is always better.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Upgraded the Netbook to Win7 Pro this weekend. Seems to be running as snappy as XP Home Premium for now. USB flash drive install for source. What would be cool is to find a 4GB DIMM of memory for that Lenovo S10.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

scooper said:


> Upgraded the Netbook to Win7 Pro this weekend. Seems to be running as snappy as XP Home Premium for now. USB flash drive install for source. What would be cool is to find a 4GB DIMM of memory for that Lenovo S10.


Is that even possible? Crucial says max is 2gb for an IdeaPad S10.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

32 Bit Win 7 will only use 3 GB.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And as I found out recently, even some 64 bit systems with 64 bit Windows.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> Is that even possible? Crucial says max is 2gb for an IdeaPad S10.


I think it would fit and work just fine. However - at a price of $99 , for the age of the system - not worth it for what we use the Netbook for (Internet access in the bedroom / on roadtrips).


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I just maxed RAM with 2gb Crucial on my trusty old Dell Latitude 610 running XP Pro SP3 -- also, replaced the HDD -- all for < $100.

Runs better than new.

Yay! :joy:


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

90 days to go....


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Microsoft has also announced that Security Essentials for XP is being discontinued at the same time. After April 8, it will receive no definition updates or be available for download.

If someone absolutely has to use XP after April, please get a third party AV and do not use IE. Chrome will support XP until April 2015, and Firefox also will support it at least for a while. Those browsers will still get security updates.

I would advise moving to Windows 7 however. It's really just too risky, particularly after the next patch Tuesday rolls around.

And don't forget Office 2003, Exchange 2003. I believe Server 2003 gets updates until July 2015.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Pay ~$200 per machine for "Custom Support" from Microsoft and you can keep XP for another year. The charge for the second and third year will be higher.

The cost of an upgrade is cheaper for most business customers ... but if there was a mission critical program that had not been successfully rewritten for Win7 or Win8 it might be worth the cost to keep XP.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> Pay ~$200 per machine for "Custom Support" from Microsoft and you can keep XP for another year. The charge for the second and third year will be higher.


I can see businesses going for the $200 per machine extended support rather than spending the money on a new machine with Windows 7, cost of training, cost of taking an employee out to attend such training, and reduced productivity. The way things are trending, it would not surprise me if most of what you need to do to accomplish your job is through a web browser and only if it's absolutely needed would there be a software package installed on your computer. This means that computing has come full circle: from terminals attached to mainframes, to independent computers, to cloud computing.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

James Long said:


> Pay ~$200 per machine for "Custom Support" from Microsoft and you can keep XP for another year. The charge for the second and third year will be higher.
> 
> The cost of an upgrade is cheaper for most business customers ... but if there was a mission critical program that had not been successfully rewritten for Win7 or Win8 it might be worth the cost to keep XP.


Though it's not quite that simple. Everything I've read, there is a fairly significant minimum and no cap. One company was quoted a million dollars for the first year, though this does work out to $200 a machine, $2 for the second and $5 for the third. Some smaller companies were quoted $600,000 for the first year.


----------



## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

I think XP will last a few more years based on this.

If you use Audacity on XP, you can copy audio from Youtube or other streaming sources. There is a Bug in 7 which does not allow you to do this. Unless one of you knows about a DLL file to modify to regain the ability.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Honestly, I'd try XP in a VM on 7.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Looks like Microsoft backed-off killing Security Essentials updates for XP on the same date. They'll now continue to provide definitions through July of 2015.

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2014/01/15/microsoft-extends-updates-windows-xp-security-products-july-14-2015/#!sjSY0


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Looked at some of those comments, XP more stable than Windows 7? I've always found 7 very reliable, unless a company writes a bad driver or something. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

7,audacity, and Youtube work together just fine on my pc.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Two issues for me:

I can hardly give up outlook express.

Is there a GOOD email program similar to it? I like writing off line, more importantly, sending out links of various web sites is a snap, and I do this often. It has to be close, I don't have the time to learn another all over again, LOL.

Also, the other person in the house plays older video games like COD and ww2 stuff. Don't know if this will work for him.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

satcrazy said:


> Two issues for me:
> 
> I can hardly give up outlook express.
> 
> ...


When I got my new HP about 2 years ago with Windows 7 on it it did not have Outlook Express on it and I was upset.
I found this program called Windows Live Essentials and downloaded it and installed it.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-live/essentials

It has plusses and minuses compared to Outlook Express. One minus is that when you put a link in it, it does not get underlined and therefore is not a link and just text, even with it in rich text mode. However, I have discovered if you get to the right end of it with the cursor and then hit enter it does underline it and turn it into a link.
A big plus is that ( I also got a Laptop close to the time I got the new HP desktop ) when I installed this onto the laptop, it picked up all my contacts and their information and the calendar stuff. If I remove or add a contact on one machine it is updated on the other.

You can add folders, make rules about emails and have them move directly from the Inbox to another folder determined by a rule you make up, etc.
It is very similar to Outlook Express.

You have to have Windows 7 or higher to use Windows Live Essentials.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And for the old games, same advise as before, try an an XP VM or Windows 7 Pro or higher XP Mode if they don't work on Windows 7 itself.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

I know I read somewhere that running XP [ VM] or VM in 7 still exposes XP to viruses and of course, No updates.

Never ran a VM, but read about it, it can get snakey, I understand.

J57, I will look at W live, thanks........


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Exposure to viruses under a VM should be minimal, if you're not using email or a lot of surfing.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Just thought of something, XP Mode may not be the best option, no 3D hardware acceleration. Virtualbox does support that (free download, you must provide the XP disc and license).

If the XP VM doesn't need network or Internet access, you can turn that off. So at that point you have a standalone XP machine that can't access anything. Hard for a hacker to get into or get a virus.

And of course you can use Firefox or Chrome (which aren't dropping XP support yet) and a third party AV after Microsoft drops Security Essentials support in 2015.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Just finished updating my old desktop with all the Windows update and the updates to the updates and the optional updates.
Then I moved on to the security updates, Java, Adobe Reader.
Ran a full scan.
Holey Moley, 4 hours. That thing is slow. We have fast internet, Comcast 50 Mbps so the download time was minimal.
It had been about 6 months since I was on it.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Just finished updating my old desktop with all the Windows update and the updates to the updates and the optional updates.
> Then I moved on to the security updates, Java, Adobe Reader.
> Ran a full scan.
> Holey Moley, 4 hours. That thing is slow. We have fast internet, Comcast 50 Mbps so the download time was minimal.
> It had been about 6 months since I was on it.


Don't forget Flash if it's installed, they had an out of band security update.

I like a program from Secunia, PSI. Free personal scanner that checks for security updates or end of life status for all your apps.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Art7220 said:


> I think XP will last a few more years based on this.
> 
> If you use Audacity on XP, you can copy audio from Youtube or other streaming sources. There is a Bug in 7 which does not allow you to do this. Unless one of you knows about a DLL file to modify to regain the ability.


Audacity lets me capture audio on Windows 8.1. I haven't tried this on my Windows 7 laptop.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> Two issues for me:
> 
> I can hardly give up outlook express.
> 
> ...


I've been very happy with Thunderbird as my e-mail client for many years. I hardly ever used Outlook Express, so can't vouch for its similarity to Thunderbird.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I haven't been able to get Audacity to record from on-line audio on Win 8.1. Haven't spent a lot of time with it - is there any quick fix?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'd think this kind of function could be affected by drivers as well.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

A quick google found that you need to enable 'Stereo Mix' in the Sound / Recording. Didn't see it but a Right-click showed disabled items.

Thanks for reminding me that I hadn't looked!


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

A compatibility update was released today for 8.1 that includes Audacity, though it really only has to do with Skydrive/OneDrive.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> I haven't been able to get Audacity to record from on-line audio on Win 8.1. Haven't spent a lot of time with it - is there any quick fix?


Audacity 2.0.4 is working for me on Win 8.1 and records on-line audio with no special set-up needed.


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I find it suspect -that my XP machines would not work with win7 when first released and would need to be trashed (however) now all of a sudden My same xp machines can now suddenly work if I pay to install win7 32 bit on them- very strange?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

WestDC said:


> I find it suspect -that my XP machines would not work with win7 when first released and would need to be trashed (however) now all of a sudden My same xp machines can now suddenly work if I pay to install win7 32 bit on them- very strange?


What told you they wouldn't work? It's also possible that when Win7 was first released, there weren't compatible drivers, but drivers eventually came out and compatibility matrices updated.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

dennisj00 said:


> A quick google found that you need to enable 'Stereo Mix' in the Sound / Recording. Didn't see it but a Right-click showed disabled items.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me that I hadn't looked!


Had this same issue at first. Kept playing with the settings, and there it was. Viola!

The older version I have on XP didn't have that issue. So it was a small learning curve. I love audacity. Captures audio in W7 just fine.

Now I just need to try some of those older games on my new pc with 7 to see if I'm concerned over nothing....


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

OK,

I just installed windows live essentials for email.

So far, it isn't that difficult.

However, when I try to send link by mail on IE, the page drop down [ top right corner] the "send link" or "send page" is grayed out.

This is a must have for me as it worked perfectly in XP with outlook.

After I downloaded and went to install, I had the option of what to install. I only picked Mail, since I didn't see the need for the other programs. I wonder if I needed something else besides mail?

Any ideas? I hate not having that option.


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> What told you they wouldn't work? It's also possible that when Win7 was first released, there weren't compatible drivers, but drivers eventually came out and compatibility matrices updated.


When _I ran the MS app on each machine to test if my machine was compatible -Can back with hardware was not acceptable -Now years latter and the app says it will work_


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

jimmie57 said:


> When I got my new HP about 2 years ago with Windows 7 on it it did not have Outlook Express on it and I was upset.
> I found this program called Windows Live Essentials and downloaded it and installed it.
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-live/essentials
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the tip on the enabling the link to become "clickable". [ works well]

I first had to figure out how to set livemail as the default client to enable the page menu in IE to work.

I got it. [ must be in admin mode, start menu, default programs," set program access and computer defaults", choose livemail as client, reboot pc.

So far I'm liking livemail. Thanks for the download link!


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

satcrazy said:


> Thanks a lot for the tip on the enabling the link to become "clickable". [ works well]
> 
> I first had to figure out how to set livemail as the default client to enable the page menu in IE to work.
> 
> ...


You are welcome. Glad it is working for you.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

WestDC said:


> When _I ran the MS app on each machine to test if my machine was compatible -Can back with hardware was not acceptable -Now years latter and the app says it will work_


I'm not surprised, drivers updated, hardware certified for 7, etc.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

WestDC said:


> I find it suspect -that my XP machines would not work with win7 when first released and would need to be trashed (however) now all of a sudden My same xp machines can now suddenly work if I pay to install win7 32 bit on them- very strange?


Can work or does work?

Give us some details on your XP machine.

I finally replaced my 7-year-old HP Pavilion running XP with a new HP Pavilion with Windows 8 (now upgraded to 8.1) last year.


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

billsharpe said:


> Can work or does work?
> 
> Give us some details on your XP machine.
> 
> I finally replaced my 7-year-old HP Pavilion running XP with a new HP Pavilion with Windows 8 (now upgraded to 8.1) last year.


Using the same MS app - Before I didn't have enough memory 2-gig - hardware (chipset) wasn't robust enough - Dell Insp laptop 9100(2004) - MS app Now proclaims can work just fine for win7. 32 bit. So I will just limp along till win 9 comes out - using chrome and norton should last.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

has anyone heard if there will be a round up cd of security updates? I think MS did this for other OS in the past.

Id like to keep one computer with XP.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Sigh ... My aged HP laptop can't be upgraded from XP. It is maxed out with 1 gig of ram and a bigger hard drive and use it with a Visioneer scanner that is not supported by later releases of Windows, so can't use it with my desktop. My small form factor computer with 2 gig of ram was recently upgraded to Windows 7. When I went to start it the other day, it wouldn't power up.

I'm about to make the Linux plunge with my laptop, having burned a DVD with Ubuntu 12.04 and will try it out without installing it on the hard drive.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

There may be hope. PCWorld tech notes today quoted the Verge, ZDNet and Microsoft itself that a new release of Windows 8.1 is scheduled for April 8. One of the improvements is the ability for Windows 8.1 to run on a system with ONE GIG of ram. :joy:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2105781/oops-windows-8-1-update-leaked-by-microsoft-itself.html#tk.nl_today


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Thirty days to go before.... the end.... of support.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Pretty good opinion piece, IMO, on why Microsoft should continue to patch XP.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9246837/Perspective_Microsoft_risks_security_reputation_ruin_by_retiring_XP?taxonomyId=125&pageNumber=1


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But how long would they extend support? If they extended it another 5 years, how many would still use XP after that's up? or 10?

They can't continue support indefinitely.

Now, here is a bit of a controversial opinion. On last weeks Security Now, Steve Gibson said he was't too concerned, and the only reason that security updates are needed are to protect the user from themselves. There is some truth to that. If you use a third party browser, run something like noscript, don't have Java or flash in the browser and don't open attachments etc, while running as a regular user instead of admin, your chances of an issue are fairly low. But most don't have that kind of discipline, especially on a shared system.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Regarding Gibson's comments, that opinion piece author fears that new patches to Windows 7 and 8 might allow XP hackers to find even more XP vulnerabilities to exploit. His feeling is that, as a result, Windows in general will get a reputation as being insecure, despite Microsoft claiming it's only XP you have to worry about. If he's right, it could be a PR nightmare for Microsoft.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Oh, there is no doubt that many vulnerabilities fixed in Windows 7 affect XP. But a large number, especially with IE require admin rights.

Personally, I think how Apple does it is worse. They don't really say when security updates will stop. They just stop.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> Oh, there is no doubt that many vulnerabilities fixed in Windows 7 affect XP. But a large number, especially with IE require admin rights.
> 
> Personally, I think how Apple does it is worse. They don't really say when security updates will stop. They just stop.


Amen to that.

Running Windows 8.1 now on a tablet for rthan 4 months and very impressed on the updates to date...and security is a constant focus.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I think a lot of people that say they hate 8 haven't tried it, or tried it with a simple change. I never see the start screen unless I want to.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I think a lot of people that say they hate 8 haven't tried it, or tried it with a simple change. I never see the start screen unless I want to.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not against upgrading. I'm just saying if I was a Microsoft shareholder, I'd be concerned for the reasons stated in that opinion piece.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

there is a classic shell that can be downloaded to eight if you dislike that metro look.

Cholly, did you check your power supply? I hear linux mint is suppose to be pretty good.

I'm po'd that security essentials won't be supported for xp. Between that, firefox. and password protecting everything, I thought I could use xp a little longer on a older IBM that just keeps chugging along. I think it's too old to invest 7 for it, i may be looking at linux as well.

Shame.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> I'm po'd that security essentials won't be supported for xp. Between that, firefox. and password protecting everything, I thought I could use xp a little longer on a older IBM that just keeps chugging along. I think it's too old to invest 7 for it, i may be looking at linux as well.
> 
> Shame.


Security Essentials support ends July 2015.

Mint is good, based on Ubuntu but try a live CD first to make sure all your hardware works. Drivers can be an issue, especially on a laptop.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Regrding power supply on my small form factor computer. Yes, it could be bad. Its tough to check since components are so tightly packed. If it is indeed bad, no replacement is available. the supply is a 250 watt compact supply by Enhance. There are no supplies of that form factor currently available.

Re: Linux - yep, I've burned a DVD with Ubuntu and intend to run from the DVD. I'm worried about driver issues on the laptop, and as a last resort, will simply use it without internet access.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

cholly- check serversupply.com, I've had good luck with them.

dpeters- Microsoft stated they will partially support essentials, if it is already installed [ If you don't have it and want it, get it now]

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-support-help

Your right about drivers and programs compatability for linux, the only reason more people don't leave MS behind IMOP. :nono2: I tried an old Ubuntu live cd it was pretty easy to navigate.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I tried Windows 8 preview as a dual boot on my Windows 7 laptop. I wasn't too impressed.

However, I bought a Windows 8 HP Pavilion with 8 GB memory and was totally impressed. 8.1 is even better. I have set it to boot to the desktop. I have a couple Tile programs that I run once in a while, most often it's the Kindle Reader and the Weather app.

My XP desktop is in the closet for now. Eventually I'll clean everything off it and donate it locally.


----------



## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

billsharpe said:


> My XP desktop is in the closet for now. Eventually I'll clean everything off it and donate it locally.


I would recommend using a utility like DBAN to wipe clean the HDD very thoroughly before you donate it.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Ok, so here I was so concentrated on XP, I missed that Microsoft is ending support for MAPI at the same time. Looks like I need to get going on migrating my Good server over to EWS.

Office 2003 also ends if anyone actually uses that.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

coolman302003 said:


> I would recommend using a utility like DBAN to wipe clean the HDD very thoroughly before you donate it.


Thanks for the suggestion. That's exactly what I was going to use and what I meant when I said "clean it off."


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Office 2003 also ends if anyone actually uses that.


I am still using Visio 2003 on my Win 8.1 desktop. Upgrade is just too costly for the limited use I make of the program.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I am still using Visio 2003 on my Win 8.1 desktop. Upgrade is just too costly for the limited use I make of the program.


I think you're most likely OK. The real issue becomes when your email program uses Word as the editor, or opening malicious office attachments.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Today is the day Windows XP support end. This also means that Internet Explorer 6 and Office 2003 is end-of-life as well.

Good riddence Internet Explorer 6.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

As well as IE 7 and 8 for XP. A more little known end of support today is MAPI, but if you don't know what that is, you're not affected most likely.

If anyone still uses XP and can't upgrade to 7, please add a separate administrator account and make the one you use normally a limited user. Then stop using IE wherever possible and use either Chrome or Firefox. Security Essentials will get updates until July 2015, but I'd consider a third party AV.


----------



## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> If anyone still uses XP and can't upgrade to 7, please add a separate administrator account and make the one you use normally a limited user. Then stop using IE wherever possible and use either Chrome or Firefox. Security Essentials will get updates until July 2015, but I'd consider a third party AV.


Well said, here's a simple and easy way to disable IE just in case its accidentally used....

http://www.techsupportalert.com/how_to_disable_internet_explorer.htm


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Oh, so that is why we got the "end of life" popup on a few remaining work XP machines.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Forgive me for being lazy... but did they say anything about XP Activation going forward?

I get that they wouldn't support or fix bugs on the operating system... but for people/companies that have a stable setup and don't need support or upgrades... will they be unable to reinstall XP going forward? I assume the activation servers will be gone.


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Steve said:


> Pretty good opinion piece, IMO, on why Microsoft should continue to patch XP.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9246837/Perspective_Microsoft_risks_security_reputation_ruin_by_retiring_XP?taxonomyId=125&pageNumber=1


I agree. I used Windows 7. XP is much better than Windows 7. One biggie is the email programme within Windows 7. Outlook Exoress s much better.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'll ignore the outlook express comment, but how long should Microsoft continue to patch XP, another 5 years, 10? This date has been known for a long time.

And they are still patching it's just not for us.

Governments and large companies can give them a bunch of money and they will get critical patches.

The other interesting bit in this is that Server 2003 is supported until July 2015. While of course there are differences, XP and 2003 share a lot of files.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

SeaBeagle said:


> I agree. I used Windows 7. XP is much better than Windows 7. One biggie is the email programme within Windows 7. Outlook Exoress s much better.


Actually the point of that article wasn't that XP was superior, it was that Windows' reputation was at stake. The author fears that from a marketing standpoint, uneducated consumers may believe that _all_ versions of Windows are insecure, even if it's only XP that's seriously compromised.


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

WestDC said:


> Using the same MS app - Before I didn't have enough memory 2-gig - hardware (chipset) wasn't robust enough - Dell Insp laptop 9100(2004) - MS app Now proclaims can work just fine for win7. 32 bit. So I will just limp along till win 9 comes out - using chrome and norton should last.


UPDATE :

With the EOL of XP (today) During the month of march I upgraded 3 of my XPsp3 Old Dell Machines to Win7 Pro SP1-32bit (DVD) - First was Pentium 4 Cpu 2.4ghz 1 gig Ram 300 gig Hd - Second was Pentium 4 3.2 ghz 2 Gig Ram -160 gig HD - Third was Pentium 4 3.2 ghz 4 Gig Ram 300 Gig HD - 

What you will need a USB DVD Burner/Recorder ($20) - Possible C-sub USB Audio ($3)(explain later)
I ordered everything from Amazon - Back in 2009 Win& was released and No of my PC's Would upgrade according to MS - Now 4 Yrs later that is not true Reason Most of the Vendors upgraded Drivers for Vista & Win7 Most of the drivers included in the Win7 pro - After doing MS updates after install completes Will Work with your PC.

The DVD Does Something really Slick it saves ALL your WinXP data on your HD in a New folder windows.old SO you can go back after it finishes and copy your Pictures ,Doc's re-run your programs fro the setup.exe files and it will install those into the new operating system. ( However) as always you should back up your stuff before anyway 









The cost for everything (excluding) your time (please wait) $160 Way less than throwing out your old PC and buying New - And you won't have to worry about Flaws in XP going forward being exposed.

The Usb Sound I only needed on my 2001 Dell 4500 My Sound card was MFD in 2005 SO no driver plugged it in and I now have sound to my Speakers.

The reason I suggest WIN7 Pro 32 bit is because it will allow you to run older programs in XP mode should you need that feature.

Yes- I had to buy 3 Copies of Win7 one for each PC -But only one DVD Player/Burner- to use as a reader for the instal is was heart burn Free and I can still surf and email and poke around --Good luck


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

XP Mode follows the same end of life as XP, but obviously it's much better to use it this way then as the primary OS.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I've given this some more thought and for anyone with a bit of knowledge, one alternative would be to give Linux Mint a try. Based on Ubuntu, it's a pretty easy Linux distro to use and includes more things out of the box, like Adobe Flash. At the end of May, their next long term support version comes out, Qiana, supported until April 2019.

You can boot to a Live CD without affecting Windows to try it out. Plus, it's free. While Windows apps generally won't work (with some exceptions), Linux generally has alternatives. Apps like Firefox have a separate Linux version.


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I am still keeping XP. The reason AX is not being supporters anymore is because Microsoft wants to increase sales of Windows 7 and Windows 8. Never used Windows 8. 

Just a marketing plan.


Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

OS's generally go end of life at some point with no further updates. Even free ones, where there is no financial incentive. Microsoft has done this for a very long time, NT 4, Windows 2000, Windows 95 etc etc.

If they decided to end XP support in another 5 years, 15 years after the OS was released, would it still be a marketing ploy?


----------



## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

SeaBeagle said:


> I am still keeping XP. The reason AX is not being supporters anymore is because Microsoft wants to increase sales of Windows 7 and Windows 8. Never used Windows 8.


Indeed it is.... It is unreal seeing so many ppl falling for the scare tactics!!!!

Its quite disturbing seeing so many NOT HAVE THIER OWN MINDS!!


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> OS's generally go end of life at some point with no further updates. Even free ones, where there is no financial incentive. Microsoft has done this for a very long time, NT 4, Windows 2000, Windows 95 etc etc.
> 
> If they decided to end XP support in another 5 years, 15 years after the OS was released, would it still be a marketing ploy?


No reason to end support for any working version of Windows.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Dude111 said:


> Indeed it is.... It is unreal seeing so many ppl falling for the scare tactics!!!!
> 
> Its quite disturbing seeing so many NOT HAVE THIER OWN MINDS!!


Support is one thing -Personal Security is another - The world has changed since XP first issued in 2001. Keep using it at your own risk or go the "free ware" route YMMV


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't mind them ending support. I don't know where the line in the sand should be, but it is well before infinity!

What I *would* mind, however... is if they end-of-life something like XP and don't provide a way for existing legal owners to install/re-install/activate their software.

The requirement for online activation creates a different scenario than "support" in my mind... No legal requirement, mind you, just a "it's good for business" requirement.

In the old days, you could choose not to update the operating system BUT your existing operating system would continue to work at whatever bug/patch level it was as long as you had the hardware to run it. And you could wipe and re-install to your heart's content.

XP even had deals where a re-install wasn't the trigger for re-activation... swapping enough other components (memory, hard drive, etc.) could trigger the need to reactivate... so imagine yourself with a perfectly running XP system today... they drop support tomorrow... and you have to replace a failed hard drive... then are prompted to re-activate, only you can't because Microsoft has taken the activation servers online.

I might be missing something.. and honestly I only have one PC I think that still runs XP and I haven't used that PC in years... but I haven't heard/seen anything regarding how Microsoft is going to handle that after end-of-life for XP.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> In the old days, you could choose not to update the operating system BUT your existing operating system would continue to work at whatever bug/patch level it was as long as you had the hardware to run it. And you could wipe and re-install to your heart's content.
> 
> XP even had deals where a re-install wasn't the trigger for re-activation... swapping enough other components (memory, hard drive, etc.) could trigger the need to reactivate... so imagine yourself with a perfectly running XP system today... they drop support tomorrow... and you have to replace a failed hard drive... then are prompted to re-activate, only you can't because Microsoft has taken the activation servers online.


I would not expect it to work ... but I may give it a try. I have a XP box that needs a new HD (and may get Win7 if XP doesn't load). It is not a machine that normally touches the internet (beyond an hourly time check) so if it stays XP it should be OK.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

SeaBeagle said:


> I am still keeping XP. The reason AX is not being supporters anymore is because Microsoft wants to increase sales of Windows 7 and Windows 8. Never used Windows 8.
> 
> Just a marketing plan.


Ackkk... you just gave me flashbacks of a DBSTalk thread last year where DirecTV was discontinuing the legacy "Master Program Guide" (MPG), and several folks were even rejecting the free upgrade.

Any time you computer interacts with the outside world, it is subject to a security thread, whether it be from Floppy discs, USB drives, or browsing the Internet. Anyone want to care to guess how many security patches and hotfixes were released in that time span? Now, consider some of the end users who use computers, and your hair should stand on end.

I see that you are using an Apple product. During Windows XP's timespan, Apple released OS X 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, and 10.9. Anything prior to OS X 10.7, which was released on July 20, 2011, is now in a "unsupported" state with Apple. Also, during that timespan, Apple switched from the PowerPC to the Intel processor platform, and there was a lot of incompatible software as a result.

On thing to be aware of is that Microsoft announced end of support for XP back in 2007 and that support was originally going to end in 2010 before it got pushed back to 2014. In addition, end of sale for Windows XP was 2008/2009. Five to seven years is a good lifespan for a computer.

If you ever dealt with software development, either from a support perspective or from a programming perspective, then you would know how much costs increase when you have to support multiple operating systems and multiple configuration. The APIs and libraries for Windows XP are different from Windows Vista/7/8, not to mention that you have to check for 32 bit compatibility as well as 64 bit compatibility. The more you have to test and validate, the more expensive it becomes. And, too many people stuck with Internet Explorer 6 for a long time which came with Windows XP. Ask any web programmer what it was like to program in compatibility with Internet Explorer 6 style sheets, and they are like to respond in swear words.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

than


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mark Holtz said:


> During Windows XP's timespan, Apple released OS X 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, and 10.9. Anything prior to OS X 10.7, which was released on July 20, 2011, is now in a "unsupported" state with Apple. Also, during that timespan, Apple switched from the PowerPC to the Intel processor platform, and there was a lot of incompatible software as a result.
> 
> On thing to be aware of is that Microsoft announced end of support for XP back in 2007 and that support was originally going to end in 2010 before it got pushed back to 2014. In addition, end of sale for Windows XP was 2008/2009. Five to seven years is a good lifespan for a computer.


I get the dropping of support. I have no issues with that. Using your Apple example, though.. If I have old hardware and legal copies of those older non-supported Apple OS, there would be nothing to prevent me from installing and using those older operating systems.

But Windows XP required online activation... I suspect that will no longer be possible, in which case Microsoft will have retroactively rendered XP useless... whereas you could still install and use a similarly non-supported Windows 2000.

Someone on Windows XP doesn't have the right to support forever... but they ought to be able to expect the software to still be usable at whatever stage of support it last was released.

Maybe Microsoft is going to do this... but I haven't seen anything official about it.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

IMHO their inline services should just kick back a blanket ok for anyone trying to install xo now and be done with it. No reason not to even if it was an illegal copy since it's no longer supported and no way someone is buying it new today.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

SeaBeagle said:


> No reason to end support for any working version of Windows.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


What's the definition of working? Windows 3.1 "works" on the right hardware. Should Microsoft be responsible for still updating it, answering the phones with tech support calls? I don't know of any software company that supports every version of software they've written for all time. Ubuntu no longer supports Hardy Heron, and that was a long term support version. They now support non LTS versions for only 9 months, and this is a freely available OS.

I hope those of you that still think XP is the best OS, that you don't think IE6 is the best browser...

As for activations, Microsoft has said they are not shutting down the activation servers, and that all released patches will still be available through Windows Update. Though, that's if you activate online. If you can't activate through the Internet and have to call, I'm not sure what the status is there.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That's good to know. To me, that's all I ask... that they not break their own activation service. I wouldn't expect them to otherwise support XP until the end of time.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Oh, at some point I'm sure the servers will go away, but probably a long time.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> Microsoft has also announced that Security Essentials for XP is being discontinued at the same time. After April 8, it will receive no definition updates or be available for download.
> 
> ...


got April 10th virus def upgrade


----------



## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

SeaBeagle said:


> I agree. I used Windows 7. XP is much better than Windows 7.


Until Monday the two PCs in my home were XP, now upgraded to 8.1, and W7 Home Premium. I found the XP painful to use compared to W7 and the upgrade to 8.1 sped it up considerably.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

P Smith said:


> got April 10th virus def upgrade


Well, to be fair, they changed things after I posted that in January. New date is July 2015.


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Well, to be fair, they changed things after I posted that in January. New date is July 2015.


My computer last night had some new updates.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Yes, Security Essentials is still supported. But this Tuesday was the last for XP, Office 2003 and IE for XP.

If you got updates other than these, I would really like to know. It affects a bet I have at work.


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Yes, Security Essentials is still supported. But this Tuesday was the last for XP, Office 2003 and IE for XP.
> 
> If you got updates other than these, I would really like to know. It affects a bet I have at work.


Never know what the updates are. All that I see in this small shield thing on the shut down screen then the computer downloads these updates and shuts down automatically.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

You should be able to look at the history. They were probably from patch Tuesday.


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> You should be able to look at the history. They were probably from patch Tuesday.


Where is the history located?

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

type in Search (Win+F): updates history


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

P Smith said:


> type in Search (Win+F): updates history


I will do that when I have the computer on.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

well, you can use your puffy gay  - ipad and search in Internet , yeah !


----------



## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

P Smith said:


> well, you can use your puffy gay  - ipad and search in Internet , yeah !


Actually the iPad is thin. Do not know if the iPad is happy or not though.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

http://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools#escape-from-xp


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Interesting game ... I like evil Clippy.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

well, I got some os updates and Security essentials updates as well.

That annoying SE pop up keeps telling me it's NO longer supported, however. It remains red even after a scan.
to dp:
If I get pro, even if xp is not supported, will I still be able to run old programs, or does that put my pc at high risk by running xp [on 7 pro]?


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

satcrazy said:


> well, I got some os updates and Security essentials updates as well.
> 
> That annoying SE pop up keeps telling me it's NO longer supported, however. It remains red even after a scan.
> to dp:
> If I get pro, even if xp is not supported, *will I still be able to run old programs*, or does that *put my pc at high risk by running xp* [on 7 pro]?


yes, old program will run
the issue is [possible] if your PC exposed some way to Internet, then if someone will be interesting to hack it ... too many IFs


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks, p


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Or, just install a copy of XP in a vm on win7 home and don't allow it access to the network card. That's as safe as you can make it. 

But are you saying you got OS updates released after patch Tuesday? So far, two have indicated they got updates after that date, but I'd like confirmation that they really were just patch Tuesday updates (excluding security essentials.)

But, I think XP mode in pro requires hardware virtualization support in the CPU. I did when 7 was first released that is. Don't know if that changed, but at a minimum performance would be reduced. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

LAst XP update was 4/8/14 - If the PC was shut down or updates are not configured to be checked or downloaded -then those doing that would get the last XP update upon doing a manual check - The ms Virus updates are still supported for now.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Related to this, I just saw a report that Microsoft won't offer security updates for Windows 8.1 if the update isn't applied.

http://betanews.com/2014/04/15/windows-8-1-without-update-will-no-longer-receive-security-updates/


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I think they're going to have to backtrack that a bit.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

dpeters11 said:


> Or, just install a copy of XP in a vm on win7 home and don't allow it access to the network card. That's as safe as you can make it.
> 
> But are you saying you got OS updates released after patch Tuesday? So far, two have indicated they got updates after that date, but I'd like confirmation that they really were just patch Tuesday updates (excluding security essentials.)
> 
> ...


Not sure. I will post if it updates again. I wonder if it matters that my copy of XP is a OEM?

Hardware virtualization? I don't know about VM enough to be savy. A friend might help me through this, but if the general opinion is it's a bad idea, I will re-think this.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

It being OEM doesn't matter.

Virtualization in general isn't a bad thing, though I'm more used to newer enterprise solutions.

If you have an Intel CPU, you can use this utility to see if it supports hardware virtualization. Run it and you'll see it on the CPU technologies tab.

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/confirm.aspx?httpDown=http://downloadmirror.intel.com/7838/eng/pidenu36.msi&lang=eng&Dwnldid=7838&DownloadType=Utilities%2c+Tools+and+Examples&ProductID=1881&ProductFamily=Processors&ProductLine=Processor+Utilities&ProductProduct=Intel%c2%ae+Processor+Identification+Utility

I'm betting you don't, which would mean that on that system, the way you'd need to install XP is to download Virtualbox and install a copy of XP on it. Might not be easy to activate an OEM copy though.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I think they're going to have to backtrack that a bit.


Right you are. Looks like they're giving businesses an extra 90 days to comply: http://betanews.com/2014/04/17/windows-8-1-business-users-get-update-reprieve/


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Since the WSUS issues were just fixed the other day, there really was no other option. I was reading a Peter Bright column, he thinks this signals the death of the traditional Service Pack.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Microsoft is cutting the price of XP support, one company got an $82 million discount. There is a required migration plan with milestones to get off xp. Also not available for small businesses or consumers.

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-chops-the-price-of-custom-windows-xp-patches-7000028512/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

True. The evil tech giant Microsoft is working with their major customers, those with thousands or tens of thousands of machines, to migrate them off of XP on to WIN 7 or other platforms. The "migrate off" is a key part of the deal.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Right, and while some would say its to get income from sales of the newer os's, these companies have owned windows 7 for years.

And for those that want off XP but need a cheap system that will get updates for a long time, the new version of Ubuntu LTS was just released. Free and will get updates for 5 years though they release new non LTS versions twice a year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are industry specific programs that have only just reached compatibility with Windows 7. While it would be nice for all software to remain ahead of the curve there is plenty of mission critical software where if you run it you DO NOT do Windows Update until that software vendor has vetted each update package.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Right, and a lot of those probably aren't, or at least shouldn't have Internet access. Not that helped Iran any.

In house developed apps are another problem.

At work, we have to basically go against the Patent Office compatibility Matrix. They only list up to XP SP2, IE 6 and Firefox 2 as compatible. And they updated the matrix in 2012.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Just in case you missed all of the previous memos, no more security updates for XP.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> At work, we have to basically go against the Patent Office compatibility Matrix. They only list up to XP SP2, IE 6 and Firefox 2 as compatible. And they updated the matrix in 2012.


You mean http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/file/efs/guidance/index.jsp ? I'm chuckling because of what's listed including Netscape Navigator (EOL 2008), XP SP2 (EOL 2010), PowerPC Macs (EOS 2006) with no mention of the Intel Macs, and Firefox 2 (EOL 2008).

But, hey, it's your tax dollars at work!


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Yeah - about that - The company that my employer is on for my project is JUST NOW doing the Win7 migration. And yes, part of it was apps compatibility.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

http://betanews.com/2014/05/26/how-to-continue-getting-free-security-updates-for-windows-xp-until-2019/


----------

