# Is it just me?



## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

or is Dishnetwork DVR equipment crap?

I have a 501, 508 and a 510. The 510 is in my dads room and he never has a complaint. So, I am speaking to the 501 and 508.

Both receivers are just plain buggy. The 501 has been replaced 3 times. Two times were for a loud hard drive and one was doa. The things made a horrible ratcheting noise. I'm a PC tech and recognise a failing hard drive. Dish fought me on the return. Their suggestion was to locate the unit where the noise wouldn't be a problem since it has a UHF remote. My reply was that if the UHF remote wasn't so buggy and if I didn't have to reboot the box daily, I probably would.

Both exhibit the same problems (just as the two returned did). Here is the list:

When downloading the guide is complete, I have to press cancel. Otherwise, the download screen stays on with the progress bar fully filled.

When using the remote, the thing goes nuts. I press a button once and it either ignores it or does it three times. I go rotate the receiver 30 degrees and the problem is solved until tomorrow. Then it starts up again! (new batteries, tried changing remote addresses). I have 4 remotes. It is the receiver!

One of the replaced units would actually cycle through the program info screen by itself between 1 and 4 pm daily.

I change channels and the thing asks if I wish to stop recording. I wasn't recording, it wasn't a DVR event and we have no gremlins. If I respond yes, the box hangs and requires a reboot.

Random hanging. Every few days, the box just wants a reboot.

SLOW response. If the box hasn't been rebooted in the last 2 days, it becomes slow to respond. Most notably, scrolling through the guide takes forever.

Show start and stop times! May or may not be Dishes fault. I set it to record a show and miss the first and last minute. It defies physics and it pisses my wife off to no end. There is time enough in the day for 48 half hour shows. Even so, you will likely miss the beginning and end of each. Yes, you can edit the timer to start early and end late, but why? Then if you have back to back shows, it becomes an algebra problem.

It really pisses me off when I see them introduce a new model and leave me with buggy ones. Who in their right mind would risk paying 500 to 1000 on any Dish box when they can't make the old stuff work.

I have no doubt that these are typical problems. I've seen each complaint here before. 

I don't want to switch to DTV or Comcrap. I just want these to work. I paid for them and I want them to work. Comcast is too expensive (much nicer DVR) and DTV sucks. I hear Tivo is going to make me watch commercials. No thanks. Hey Dish, get your act together!!!!!!!!

I would return these if I wasn't positive that they would send me an even buggier one.


Bill


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

My 501 works fine. No problems. I had to replace my 721 when the Hard Drive crashesd, but it happens. And if you think that your guide is slow, try using a D*TiVo's guide. It's about the slowest I have seen since the original Hughes D* boxes.

As for the beginning and end of the shows being cut off, that's the channels doing, not E*'s. You are *****ing to the wrong ones.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

From all the things you describe, it certainly seems like there's something wrong in the box.

As a side issue, many people misinterpret one thing you mentioned. If you're watching a channel and the signal you're seeing isn't "live" (i.e., you have paused or "rewound"), you'll get the warning about stopping the current recording when you try to switch channels, even if it's not an event that you chose to record. That's normal. It certainly shouldn't "hang" and require a reboot, though.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

It's you. 

You DID change the remote addresses so each unit is on a different address, AND no neighbors are using the same addresses ?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Neither one of my 508s has ANY of those problems...good grief...something is definitely wrong somewhere in your setup - either both of your receivers are damaged, or you've got something else going on here...


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

billravani said:


> or is Dishnetwork DVR equipment crap?
> 
> Bill


Probably a little bit of both, actually.


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## MikeHDTulsa (Nov 10, 2003)

You might try to remove the UHF remote antenna and try that for a while. There is two guide modes in the 500 series DVR's you might want to try the other one and see if you have less problems. I had three 508's and we all used the full screen guide and found their was a bug in the program that blanked out the channels when you went to live mode on a channel switch but the bug was not in the partial guide with the picture in the corner. It took them three months to fix the bug after I showed their 2nd level techs how to recreate it but that was about two years ago. After that they worked OK as long as you did not lose power in the middle of a recording. I gave up on Dish and went to DirecTV in February for the HD Tivo and have been happy every since. Dish has some great channels but they are not be spending enough money on programming their receivers so their customers will be happy.


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

scooper said:


> It's you.
> 
> You DID change the remote addresses so each unit is on a different address, AND no neighbors are using the same addresses ?


I think I indicated that.

"I go rotate the receiver 30 degrees and the problem is solved until tomorrow. Then it starts up again! (new batteries, tried changing remote addresses). I have 4 remotes. It is the receiver!"

Hi,

"Is it me" wasn't actually a question. I know it's not me. It's not my neighbors interfering. I've moved twice with no effect on the problems and my current neighbors are using DTV and Comcast. I've cycled through the available remote addresses with no difference. One of my boxes sat in storage for 3 months during the last move. That rules out the boxes interfering with each other.


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

AllieVi said:


> From all the things you describe, it certainly seems like there's something wrong in the box.
> 
> As a side issue, many people misinterpret one thing you mentioned. If you're watching a channel and the signal you're seeing isn't "live" (i.e., you have paused or "rewound"), you'll get the warning about stopping the current recording when you try to switch channels, even if it's not an event that you chose to record. That's normal. It certainly shouldn't "hang" and require a reboot, though.


Hi AllieVi,

It happens during live viewing. I've tried fast forwarding when it happens and get the "Live" indicator. And, as you said, hanging shouldn't be the result. This issue is fairly rare. It happens maybe once a week. I should consider a timer for the unit to reboot it nightly.

Bill


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Neither one of my 508s has ANY of those problems...good grief...something is definitely wrong somewhere in your setup - either both of your receivers are damaged, or you've got something else going on here...


I can't imagine what else. I do have a wireless router (802.11BG) and a wireless phone (5.8 Ghz)


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## MikeHDTulsa (Nov 10, 2003)

If you think it might be UHF interfence then remove the UHF remote antenna for a while and then when you use the remote it will only pick up on the infer red signal. I ran my 508 in the bedroom without the UHF antenna and it seemed to respond better to the remote.


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## MikeHDTulsa (Nov 10, 2003)

You could put some black tape over the infer red ports on the front panel and see if that might help. That way the unit will only be able to respond the the UHF commands from the remote.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I've had two tuner failures with the 501 and then a hard drive failure. I have had a tuner failure in the 721. The 510 has not failed yet nor has the new replacement 721 that I received. I do not hear about tuner failures like I used to.


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

MikeHDTulsa said:


> You could put some black tape over the infer red ports on the front panel and see if that might help. That way the unit will only be able to respond the the UHF commands from the remote.


Hi Mike,

I have the 508 in a closet plus I use it to feed two TV's, so UHF is needed. I guess I should at least put it out with the main TV. It does seem to work better when closer to a remote. Even so, the thing is only 20 feet and 1 wall away.

Thanks, Bill


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

Jacob S said:


> I've had two tuner failures with the 501 and then a hard drive failure. I have had a tuner failure in the 721. The 510 has not failed yet nor has the new replacement 721 that I received. I do not hear about tuner failures like I used to.


Hi Jacob,

The 510 seems to be 100%

It's my first generation 501 and 508 that give me problems. They are not major problems like you had, just annoying. I'm going to set them up with a timer to reboot nightly and see what I get.

Thanks, Bill


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

<grasping at straws mode>

Have you verified that your 501 & 508 have the current software? My 508 shows P223DCTD-N.

</grasping at straws mode>


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Have you replaced your remote?


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

AllieVi said:


> <grasping at straws mode>
> 
> Have you verified that your 501 & 508 have the current software? My 508 shows P223DCTD-N.
> 
> </grasping at straws mode>


Hi AllieVi

I have S/W Ver P223DCKD-N

Just out of curiosity, what is your boot strap version? I have 22ABDCKD

Bill


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## billravani (Nov 14, 2004)

Neil Derryberry said:


> Have you replaced your remote?


Hi Neil,

I have 4 UHF remotes. It doesn't matter which I use.

Bill


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

billravani said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is your boot strap version? I have 22ABDCKD
> Bill


Mine is 22ABDCTD


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

billravani said:


> or is Dishnetwork DVR equipment crap?...


It's NOT you.

It really depends upon your point of view. For instance if it were 1998 and you showed me a 721 (four years before its release and before Tivo was shipping) I would have been blown away, thinking it was the most incredible piece of technology I'd ever seen, and I probably would have gladly tolerated its quirks and buginess and arrogant, confusing, and user-hostile interface. Completely.

But that could never have happened, it's no longer 1998, it's 2005, and history has CLEARLY shown us that some manufacturers (Tivo and Replay) can make solid units, but apparently no one else can, especially DISH, who has a truly pitiful and embarrasing track record to be proud of. Anecdotal information about how "I never had a problem" just doesn't hold water in the face of all the evidence out there that very clearly shows the true pattern.

So it's relative. I would not characterize DISH gear as crap, but simply inferior. Inferior to the point that converting to D* would be far less bother than putting up with such poor performance. That's the point of view of someone intimately familiar with both DBS services and owner of 7 PVR's of different varieties, including Tivo and DISH units.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

I returned 4 501's and 2 508's before I found my problem. (I had the same issues you report)

You see stupid me thought that you needed to leave the 501/508 on if you were going to record anything late at night so these babies never shut off.

I would trash the hard drives in a matter of months and since I never turned them off they never got updated, the program guides were always out of date yadda yadda 

Since I started turning them off (and Dish finally put in an auto shut off feature - you have to turn it on) both units are doing great for the past 2+ years.

Now I'm sure at least a few of the units were bad (they swap out with refurb's that I do not think they check aside from seeing if they turn on)

Either way I wish you luck and for and a reminder to all - turn those babies off when not in use 

-JB


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Leave mine on all the time. I NEVER turn my computer off. It is actually perfectly fine to run a hard drive 24/365.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> I returned 4 501's and 2 508's before I found my problem. (I had the same issues you report)
> 
> You see stupid me thought that you needed to leave the 501/508 on if you were going to record anything late at night so these babies never shut off.
> 
> ...


I would bet the farm that leaving the unit on has very little to do with your HDs being trashed...that is usually the province of bad code writers who do not know how to write robust code. DISH has a lot of those guys on staff, apparently.

Thinking that a result is due to a condition without evidence of same is known as superstition.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> Leave mine on all the time. I NEVER turn my computer off. It is actually perfectly fine to run a hard drive 24/365.


I agree that leaving a computer on 24/7 is no big deal, but a DVR/PVR is a different story.

If I leave my computer on overnight, the disk keeps spinning, but since the bearings in modern drives are of very high quality, there's no noticeable affect on their life.

The heads are a different story, though. They remain essentially parked on my computer's drive unless something is being read from or written to the disk. When unattended, the computer seldom if ever actually accesses the disk/moves the heads.

A DVR/PVR is writing to and reading from the disk all the time that the unit is running. That means the head positioning mechanism is in constant use, a very different situation than a typical computer.

I turn my 508's off when I'm not using them and expect to extend their lives as a result.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

"On" is a relative term nowadays.

Leave a DVR "On" and Allievi is correct - it's in constant use because it thinks you are watching it.

Turning it "Off" tells it that it doesn't have to do that - and can do other things like download updates. "Off" is actually "Stand-by". This is the right thing to do.

There is NO true "Off" for a DVR unless you pull power, and that's a BAD idea.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

lets not forget the 500 boxes, and now the 721s do a nightly reboot or reset because of just such issues, unless you turn it off in the preferences...

theoritically just about every box is resetting nightly


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> Turning it "Off" tells it that it doesn't have to do that - and can do other things like download updates. "Off" is actually "Stand-by". This is the right thing to do.


When a DVR/PVR is "on" all the time, it never gets a chance to do any "housekeeping" chores (i.e., the disk maintenance actions that our computer operating systems perform).

I have no detailed knowledge of how DISH's operating systems work, but I assume that turning the DVR/PVR "off" frees the disk for things like file maintenance.

The receiver portion of the unit never really powers down, of course, but the disk drive does eventually stop turning when the system is turned "off."


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

With the Linux based systems, like the 721/921 and TiVos, their file systems are more efficient, and therefore do less housekeeping. Also, I've ran servers that were data intensive constantly, and they all used standard ATA drives and ran fine for years. Now, there may be more issues involved than just the hard drives. If the PS isn't supplying enough juice, it will cause premature hard drive failure. I will have to pop open my 721 and 501 soon and do a volt and amp test on the power lines to see how much they have. Maybe I will run the hard drive off another PS.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Larry - it sounds like you've been around and know the issues with split power supplies, and how to handle it. 

If not - well, ... don't.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I had built a linux box a few years back with 10 2GB drives and used 2 power supplies to run it. Got an award from my LUG for the most f****d up Linux box to say the least. 2 SCSI cards, 2 sound cards, and it all worked.


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