# Worst Installers Ever!!!



## mrichman (Sep 30, 2007)

I will recant my tale of woe...all I needed was to swap out my dish for the new slimline dish, and swap out the old receiver for the new HR20. My appointment was for yesterday "sometime between 1-5pm". My guard gate called to announce them at 4:30pm...after 45 minutes and two frantic phone calls in broken English, he managed to find my house in the community (why do they rely solely on GPS?). These two guys showed up, didn't speak a single word of English between them, and after two hours, I still had no local channels. In his broken English, Guillermo managed to grunt "box broke" and I told him that couldn't be true, and to get a new one from the truck so I could prove him wrong. He replied, "only have one". Who shows up with only one receiver, if they are truly known to be unreliable as he intimated? As I reached for the phone to call Directv, he grabbed his clipboard, the box the HR20 came in, and marched out of my house without so much as a goodbye, an apology, or anything other than muddy footprints out my door. He got in his truck and sped off. In a nutshell, he walked off the job while I held the remote in one hand, the phone in the other, and my jaw on the floor. After pressing "0" on the phone 10 or 11 times, I got a nice lady named Latoya on the phone. She properly configured my receiver over the air, and after a reboot and software download, I was up and running with local and HD fully functional. Why must I be subjected to unprofessional, rude, incompetent, Spanish-speaking installers, only to be mistreated, and have to pay on top of all that?


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

There are certainly a fair share of mediocre installers out there. I've dealt with them too... it's no fun. Glad to hear that you got it up and running after they left.

Welcome to DBSTalk btw


----------



## Clato (Aug 30, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> There are certainly a fair share of mediocre installers out there. I've dealt with them too... it's no fun. Glad to hear that you got it up and running after they left.
> 
> Welcome to DBSTalk btw


===============================================
hello poitNaft, i'am also a still newbie here, WELCOME one thing i have found here, *is that you meet some very friendly knowledgeable friendly people*.

as far as worst installer, the worst I've seen was the one,(man) that came out to install my 5 lnb dish & reciever, when he finished it looked crappy, *using DUCT tape & the carboard* box that the dish came in to secure it needless to say a supervisor tec 7 the orignal installer was back the next day to do the job right.


----------



## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Next time do the install yourself.


----------



## mrichman (Sep 30, 2007)

jhillestad said:


> Next time do the install yourself.


I think I just might! That was never offered to me as an option though.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

jhillestad said:


> Next time do the install yourself.


While this is certainly an option for some (myself included), not everyone is as technically savy to attempt a self installation. For my AT9 installation, I had D* take care of it only for the fact that I do not own a 40 foot ladder to reach my roof.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

mrichman said:


> I will recant my tale of woe...all I needed was to swap out my dish for the new slimline dish, and swap out the old receiver for the new HR20. My appointment was for yesterday "sometime between 1-5pm". My guard gate called to announce them at 4:30pm...after 45 minutes and two frantic phone calls in broken English, he managed to find my house in the community (why do they rely solely on GPS?). These two guys showed up, didn't speak a single word of English between them, and after two hours, I still had no local channels. In his broken English, Guillermo managed to grunt "box broke" and I told him that couldn't be true, and to get a new one from the truck so I could prove him wrong. He replied, "only have one". Who shows up with only one receiver, if they are truly known to be unreliable as he intimated? As I reached for the phone to call Directv, he grabbed his clipboard, the box the HR20 came in, and marched out of my house without so much as a goodbye, an apology, or anything other than muddy footprints out my door. He got in his truck and sped off. In a nutshell, he walked off the job while I held the remote in one hand, the phone in the other, and my jaw on the floor. After pressing "0" on the phone 10 or 11 times, I got a nice lady named Latoya on the phone. She properly configured my receiver over the air, and after a reboot and software download, I was up and running with local and HD fully functional. Why must I be subjected to unprofessional, rude, incompetent, Spanish-speaking installers, only to be mistreated, and have to pay on top of all that?


It's the "american" way ... least these days ... be glad you got an English speaking gal on the phone AND that she knew what she was doing .... be VERY glad they pointed the dish fairly well


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

Welcome to the world of Mastec installers in Florida! Had the same thing happen to me last week. Guys were not quite that incompetent: at least one of them spoke some broken English. But... they showed up at 6:30 and it being late in the day, I think just didn't want to fool with the "yob". They claimed it was "too complicated" to run one additional line to my family room for the DVR. So I let them go and now I'm supposed to get a "lead tech" on Tuesday to do the job. In the mean time, I spent about 30 minutes to drop that additional line myself this morning so now all 5 cables end in the same place in the attic. All they have to do now is mount the dish and screw in the connections! I didn't want any excuses for cry babies this time. We'll see what happens. Man if there's one thing I can't stand is people showing up for a simple job and then crying about it being too complicated when it's standard stuff. They didn't even go so far as to look: the blown insulation wasn't even disturbed in the attic. They took one look in there and decided they didn't want to spend the time bending a few times and walking on joists.

Then there was the hour on the phone afterward with DirecTV trying to get them to send another tech. I won't even bother telling you how many times I got transferred and cut off... and that's someone trying to BUY service from them. I can only imagine how bad it will be once they already have my money!

 

I'm only sticking with it because... I want my HDTV!  

Mike


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

jhillestad said:


> Next time do the install yourself.


Speaking of which... what do you have to do in order to get DirecTV to just send you the equipment? At this point, I'd rather do it myself... but I don't want to have to pay for the equipment. In fact, they ought to be paying ME to install it!

Mike


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

mchaney said:


> Speaking of which... what do you have to do in order to get DirecTV to just send you the equipment? At this point, I'd rather do it myself... but I don't want to have to pay for the equipment. In fact, they ought to be paying ME to install it!


While D* will send you receivers for you to self install, I have never seen any case of them sending just the dish to a customer. For that you'll have to buy it on your own. Several online retailers carry it:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=2&CAT=&PROD=AU9-S

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250004

In some cases, you should be able to call D* and have them compensate you for the expense of purchasing the dish on your own since it does come free with "professional" installation.


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> While D* will send you receivers for you to self install, I have never seen any case of them sending just the dish to a customer. For that you'll have to buy it on your own. Several online retailers carry it:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=2&CAT=&PROD=AU9-S
> 
> ...


OK. Thanks. I looked at the one from Solid Signal, but I actually need 5 lines because I'm feeding 4 receivers and one is a DVR. Should I decide to buy this, what do I need: just a different multiswitch? A 6x8 maybe? Would I have to buy it separately or do you know if I could call them and get them to ship it with only a 6x8 (assuming that's what I need) and just pay the difference? Also, I assume the multiswitches still sit on the back of the dish and you run all 5 cables directly from there? It's been about 3 years since I've done a DirecTV install.

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, Mastec here in Virginia is not much better. Had this guy come yesterday to get my H20 working on the new HD channels. He first tried a new BBC, which didn't help. I had already told him I had been getting some of the new stations just not all. He then tried a new H20, and he could not even set it up right. Then he hooked my original one back up. Went up on the roof to try a realignment, even though yesterday I had no signals for the 103b. Still no joy, he asked me what the Diplexer was for, and I said the original installer put it on for local OTA, but said I wasn't using it so he could take it off. No he didn't want to "mess up the original work". He told me he had to go help another tech and both would come back later. Seems this other tech had more experience then he did. When he left I took the diplexer off and lo and behold, I now had most of the TP's on 103b giving me signals. I called him, had his cell on my ID. He came back and looked at the set and signal strengths. Looked at me and said "you should be a tech." Again said he would be back with the other tech once they did the job. About 4pm no call so I called him. Got a message and left mine. At 5 pm I called Advanced Technologies, I had been given their number by D* the previous week when no one showed for my original appointment to get the dish aligned. They tried to call the tech and then spoke to his supervisor. Well guess what, he had marked the job as complete stating he had aligned the dish correctly. How I have to get another tech out here to remove the diplexer from the antenna end and also get the alignment right so I can get all tp's. So much fun to get these things done.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mchaney said:


> OK. Thanks. I looked at the one from Solid Signal, but I actually need 5 lines because I'm feeding 4 receivers and one is a DVR. Should I decide to buy this, what do I need: just a different multiswitch? A 6x8 maybe? Would I have to buy it separately or do you know if I could call them and get them to ship it with only a 6x8 (assuming that's what I need) and just pay the difference? Also, I assume the multiswitches still sit on the back of the dish and you run all 5 cables directly from there? It's been about 3 years since I've done a DirecTV install.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


To get 5 lines, you need the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch.

Before you install, i recommend you take a gander at the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp to decide if you are up to the 5lnb. It is not impossible, in fact very doable. But it is more complicated than previous dishes.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## 248 F1 (Sep 22, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> In some cases, you should be able to call D* and have them compensate you for the expense of purchasing the dish on your own since it does come free with "professional" installation.


Which is exactly what I did. I asked and they agreed to "pay" for the dish and multi-switch I purchased from Solid Signal. ..... in 6 equal credits to my account over the next 6 months ...for some reason. I did the install myself when the installer they sent didn't want to try or couldn't.


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> To get 5 lines, you need the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch.
> 
> Before you install, i recommend you take a gander at the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp to decide if you are up to the 5lnb. It is not impossible, in fact very doable. But it is more complicated than previous dishes.
> 
> ...


I've done 3 LNB alignments many times and didn't find that to be difficult. Isn't it basically the same for 5 LNB's? What I used to do was just optimize the signal for the outer two LNB's and the middle one(s) will fall into place by default. Is it any harder than that with the 5 LNB or does the same basic method still work?

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## bt-rtp (Dec 30, 2005)

mchaney said:


> I've done 3 LNB alignments many times and didn't find that to be difficult. Isn't it basically the same for 5 LNB's? What I used to do was just optimize the signal for the outer two LNB's and the middle one(s) will fall into place by default. Is it any harder than that with the 5 LNB or does the same basic method still work?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


No, the same basic method does not work. The procedure is very specialized to get the the AT9/AU9 antenna and LNB alignment correct. The video depicts this well enough.

Watching the installer, asking him many questions and hearing his answers was very informative. It changed my opinion about just how much has changed with the new 5 LNB antennas and how complex they are. A signal meter is a must have for sure.


----------



## jimmymiko (Nov 19, 2005)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90057


----------



## jdoug (Aug 16, 2006)

At least he got your dish aligned correctly. My buddy here at work had an HR20 upgrade done Friday. His installer left with the dish algined so he doesn't get signal on 103b (he told him it had to download new software first). He also took the box the HR20 came in with all the extra cables and even took his old Samsung receiver and access card that this guy owns. Directv uses Mastec here.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

jdoug said:


> At least he got your dish aligned correctly. My buddy here at work had an HR20 upgrade done Friday. His installer left with the dish algined so he doesn't get signal on 103b (he told him it had to download new software first). He also took the box the HR20 came in with all the extra cables and even took his old Samsung receiver and access card that this guy owns. Directv uses Mastec here.


The new HR20 probably does need a service download to add the 103b to the sat list for testing signal strength.


----------



## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

¡Recepción a DBSTalk.com, hogar de los carteles bilingües del foro!


----------



## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

mrichman said:


> I will recant my tale of woe...all I needed was to swap out my dish for the new slimline dish, and swap out the old receiver for the new HR20. My appointment was for yesterday "sometime between 1-5pm". My guard gate called to announce them at 4:30pm...after 45 minutes and two frantic phone calls in broken English, he managed to find my house in the community (why do they rely solely on GPS?). These two guys showed up, didn't speak a single word of English between them, and after two hours, I still had no local channels. In his broken English, Guillermo managed to grunt "box broke" and I told him that couldn't be true, and to get a new one from the truck so I could prove him wrong. He replied, "only have one". Who shows up with only one receiver, if they are truly known to be unreliable as he intimated? As I reached for the phone to call Directv, he grabbed his clipboard, the box the HR20 came in, and marched out of my house without so much as a goodbye, an apology, or anything other than muddy footprints out my door. He got in his truck and sped off. In a nutshell, he walked off the job while I held the remote in one hand, the phone in the other, and my jaw on the floor. After pressing "0" on the phone 10 or 11 times, I got a nice lady named Latoya on the phone. She properly configured my receiver over the air, and after a reboot and software download, I was up and running with local and HD fully functional. Why must I be subjected to unprofessional, rude, incompetent, Spanish-speaking installers, only to be mistreated, and have to pay on top of all that?


Sounds like the totally incompetent D* contracted company called Ironwood, we all love to hate. I've had Ironwood here several times (such as the HD install) and after 5 visits, things were finally working.


----------



## jdoug (Aug 16, 2006)

techrep said:


> The new HR20 probably does need a service download to add the 103b to the sat list for testing signal strength.


OK - But, in any event it's not aligned correctly cause he's only getting signal strengh in the 60's with a clear view.


----------



## dshu82 (Jul 6, 2007)

mrichman: If you have any issues, let me know if I can help out. Probably no more than 10 mins. from you. The installers I have encountered here in S. FL are terrible, and as I have cited in other posts, do everything myself and always will.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

jdoug said:


> OK - But, in any event it's not aligned correctly cause he's only getting signal strengh in the 60's with a clear view.


Agreed, TP's should be reading at least in the 80's and a good tweak will have many in the 90's.


----------



## d1gw33d (Oct 1, 2007)

n3ntj said:


> Sounds like the totally incompetent D* contracted company called Ironwood, we all love to hate. I've had Ironwood here several times (such as the HD install) and after 5 visits, things were finally working.


Ahh so it wasn't just me?! I scheduled last Wednesday and picked the first available time slot (Oct 1st 12-5PM) which was fine. Automated message confirming etc etc.

Ordered the HD DVR, a regular HD box and a regular box ($300 total) and was switching from Comcast.

Missed a call ~ 8:15AM today stating the driver couldn't find the adress (new sub division, but literally over 30 D* dishes floating around the housing division) and wanted a call back to get clearer directions.

Called back approx. 30 mins after the missed call, and got a lovely lady from Ironwood Communications that I couldn't understand at all. She stated I needed to be rescheduled for Wednesday at the earliest.

I said that was unacceptable and that an 8AM attempt doesn't fulfill a 12-5PM appointment set last week. Turn around and install. I was put on hold for over 20 minutes (!) only to be greated by "Meg the Supervisor" who was just horrible. IQ of maybe 20 and extremely short. Stated the local tech said "he can't afford to go back" and that there was no one available. What?

I was rather shocked by the lack of help from a DirecTV CSR who was more than eager to cancel my $300 order + $100/month service. No attempt to resolve the situation and told me that Ironwood Communications has final say in installs. No other company could be assigned. WOW.

I can't believe a company would rely on some third rate outfit like this to get their product/service in customers homes. Just amazing.


----------



## masmith (Dec 8, 2006)

Most of the installers in Oregon here speak english, but they still suck. 

My AT9 wasn't installed correctly at first, they brought the wrong receiver, and they had to realign it. 

Also, the frigging idiots diplexed the OTA. SO I had a guy come this Sunday to fix the OTA, he did the F connector thing for the satellite line, but he wouldn't run a new line for the OTA. He just hooked it up to a cable line and said that it should work, well, it doesn't.

So now they are setting it up AGAIN on tuesday. This has been the 4th issue on my install. 

My father-in law did have an ESL installer who didn't use the correct multiswitch or something. My father-in law cancelled, then he re-subscribed later and there were more problems with his order. He cancelled again.

The installer here yesterday didn't even know about the new HD channels, he had no understanding of the B-band converter, didn't think diplexing the OTA on that line would be a problem, and didn't understand why one line worked with the new HD, and not the other. He even said "you probably know more about this then I do". Yeah, no ****. They simply aren't trained. They would know more by reading this forum an hour a day. It is just sick. So now tomorrow let's see if they can get it going. Let's see if they say "we don't do OTA installs anymore, I am sorry." That won't fly for me though, I paid for the damn thing, they can fix their problems.


----------



## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

With all these " idiot " installers why wont people just install it themselves ? There is so much *****ing about bad installs but yet the people that complain cant do it either but they call the installer an idiot... Directv should contract out well qualified well trained installers and the customer should have to pay for it... instead of giving it away and hire " mexicans " ... Oh thats right no one wants to pay for the install.... Oh well ..... install it yourself and then point the finger at the ' idiot ' in the mirror when all does not go well.

there I ranted... but it had to be said....

I'm surprised more techs have not started a private home install sat company that will tackle the ' big jobs ' but it all goes back to the customer not wanting to pay for a quality install.... Myself , if I could not do the install I would at least seek out home theater specialty shops or c band sat dealers and ask for a price on a well installed system. If you think about it a well installed system should cost you at least $300 for the install on top of any parts to do the job right.... but no one is willing to pay that.... so brush up on your espanol .... 

I have helped friends with installs and trust me no one appreciates it... they think it should just all magically work and it should be cheap if not free.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys, it's one thing to rant, but do not attack other members on the forum by callling them names. Please, either make your points in a constructive way or move on to another topic.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Edit: Thank you, Doug.


----------



## axl (Sep 12, 2007)

I concur MASTEC in VA is horrible also. I have had nothing but problems with them. It seems the only way to get things done right is to go back to D* and complain heavily until MASTEC sends a supervisor out. Even the "lead techs" aren't that good. *sigh* It's such a shame D* has such bad contractors for such a great service. I love my service as long as I don't need something fixed. The only installed they have by me is MASTEC.


----------



## ocrts (Mar 21, 2007)

jhillestad said:


> With all these " idiot " installers why wont people just install it themselves ? There is so much *****ing about bad installs but yet the people that complain cant do it either but they call the installer an idiot... Directv should contract out well qualified well trained installers and the customer should have to pay for it... instead of giving it away and hire " mexicans " ... Oh thats right no one wants to pay for the install.... Oh well ..... install it yourself and then point the finger at the ' idiot ' in the mirror when all does not go well.
> 
> I'm surprised more techs have not started a private home install sat company that will tackle the ' big jobs ' but it all goes back to the customer not wanting to pay for a quality install.... Myself , if I could not do the install I would at least seek out home theater specialty shops or c band sat dealers and ask for a price on a well installed system. If you think about it a well installed system should cost you at least $300 for the install on top of any parts to do the job right.... but no one is willing to pay that.... so brush up on your espanol ....


I'm waffling on just how to upgrade from SD myself. I'd be very willing to pay DTV $300 for installation IF I knew it was going to be done perfectly the first time by courteous, professional installers that could communicate with me in English. They could be from Mars for all I care as long as I can talk to him/her. However, I've heard too many horror stories about DTV installers in my area (DC) to allow them to touch my house.

I'm also willing to do it myself, but I'm not sure DTV will let me. If I call them and ask, will they just send the receiver, dish, switch and BBCs? I can then either do it myself or hire a local installer that I trust.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

ocrts said:


> I'm waffling on just how to upgrade from SD myself. I'd be very willing to pay DTV $300 for installation IF I knew it was going to be done perfectly the first time by courteous, professional installers that could communicate with me in English. They could be from Mars for all I care as long as I can talk to him/her. However, I've heard too many horror stories about DTV installers in my area (DC) to allow them to touch my house.
> 
> I'm also willing to do it myself, but I'm not sure DTV will let me. If I call them and ask, will they just send the receiver, dish, switch and BBCs? I can then either do it myself or hire a local installer that I trust.


Go straight to the local installer, they should be able to fix you up for the price you mentioned.


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

bt-rtp said:


> No, the same basic method does not work. The procedure is very specialized to get the the AT9/AU9 antenna and LNB alignment correct. The video depicts this well enough.
> 
> Watching the installer, asking him many questions and hearing his answers was very informative. It changed my opinion about just how much has changed with the new 5 LNB antennas and how complex they are. A signal meter is a must have for sure.


OK. I see what they are doing, basically optimizing one axis at a time. But... looks to me like my old method would work just as well: get a signal on the 101, set elevation and azimuth, and then optimize tilt, elevation, and azimuth by watching the signal strength of the 99 and 119 satellites simultaneously. If those two are optimized, the rest will be as well. That method requires a little more trial and error fiddling but should work.

Mike


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

mchaney said:


> OK. I see what they are doing, basically optimizing one axis at a time. But... looks to me like my old method would work just as well: get a signal on the 101, set elevation and azimuth, and then optimize tilt, elevation, and azimuth by watching the signal strength of the 99 and 119 satellites simultaneously. If those two are optimized, the rest will be as well. That method requires a little more trial and error fiddling but should work.
> 
> Mike


Good signals are good signals however one arrives at that point. I find that it works pretty good to rough point the dish to 101, set tilt for 119, and then fine tune to 103b. In the end, if 103b is tuned to peak and tilt is peaked to 119, all the other sats should be good.


----------



## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Since this topic created such a firestorm of hatred for DTV installers perhaps a new forum could be created for installs - good and bad.

This way someone in a city can request for a reference to a qualified high end home theater install company in the forum and get a shot at an install they feel would better suit their needs..... maybe the site could compile a list of private installers by state that have references from other members...

So when this topic comes up again ... and it surely will.... there will be a place on the site to find a professional installer who will do whatever the customer wants rather than what mastec or whoever dtv sent says....

hopefully after a few months a nice state by state database of private high end installers can easily be found by a quick search on this website...

This way when a friend with a $8000 home theater setup says I'm just not happy with my lousy install you can point him to dbstalk.com and help him find the guy who will take the time to do it right.. from max peaking of the dish to sweet cable runs to finding the best spot to put the dish. 

Anyone with HD equipment knows that setting it up ' right ' is crucial.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

jhillestad said:


> Since this topic created such a firestorm of hatred for DTV installers perhaps a new forum could be created for installs - good and bad.
> 
> This way someone in a city can request for a reference to a qualified high end home theater install company in the forum and get a shot at an install they feel would better suit their needs..... maybe the site could compile a list of private installers by state that have references from other members...
> 
> ...


That would be a nice tool to have. However, it would be close to impossible to keep someone from anonymously flaming their competition.


----------



## Wrangler3 (Jun 27, 2007)

Wow...some of those stories are horrible. I have never had a bad installer in central Texas.


----------



## shellnc (Sep 23, 2007)

Clato said:


> ===============================================
> hello poitNaft, i'am also a still newbie here, WELCOME one thing i have found here, *is that you meet some very friendly knowledgeable friendly people*.
> 
> as far as worst installer, the worst I've seen was the one,(man) that came out to install my 5 lnb dish & reciever, when he finished it looked crappy, *using DUCT tape & the carboard* box that the dish came in to secure it needless to say a supervisor tec 7 the orignal installer was back the next day to do the job right.


I would like to say that the guy that hooked my HR-20 -- on a saturday was 2 hours early and he called the night before to ak me if that was alright. he hooked up the slimline where the old 3lnb was located and he did an excellent job. he was done in 45 minutes.

I was very satisfied and I have never had any bad experiences with Dtv. It sounds like another world when I read what some of you guys have been through.


----------



## dogs31 (Feb 27, 2006)

Clato said:


> ===============================================
> hello poitNaft, i'am also a still newbie here, WELCOME one thing i have found here, *is that you meet some very friendly knowledgeable friendly people*.
> 
> as far as worst installer, the worst I've seen was the one,(man) that came out to install my 5 lnb dish & reciever, when he finished it looked crappy, *using DUCT tape & the carboard* box that the dish came in to secure it needless to say a supervisor tec 7 the orignal installer was back the next day to do the job right.


sounds like your original installer "might be a *******."

If you've ever used duct tape to secure a satellite dish ... you might be a *******:lol:


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

I loved the installer I had last week (not). My window was 1p - 4p. He showed up at 4:01p.

"Oh, I had to go take a test for certification" he said. Lame ass excuse. He should have done it on his own time, not mine.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rasthan said:


> I loved the installer I had last week (not). My window was 1p - 4p. He showed up at 4:01p.
> 
> "Oh, I had to go take a test for certification" he said. Lame ass excuse. He should have done it on his own time, not mine.


You're kidding, right?


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> You're kidding, right?


Nope! Thats what he said! :eek2:


----------



## PANCHITO (Apr 8, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> That would be a nice tool to have. However, it would be close to impossible to keep someone from anonymously flaming their competition.[/QUOTE
> 
> Actually it work, I have seen them on other sites ( xbox games sites and appliances sites) and it will be a good way to isolate the sub contractors co. that is contracted by the contracted co. Here in Los Angeles CONNECTV have 17 sub contractor co. [yes D* contract CONNECTV and they sub contract MAXSAT and they sub contract Panchito and he do the job with his brother Juan]:eek2:


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rasthan said:


> Nope! Thats what he said! :eek2:


Actually, I commend him. After probably being forced to sit in a boring class all day, he still made it to your home almost a full hour before being late (1-5 pm time frame) and got your job taken care of for you.

Between the price of the class and the jobs I missed out on the day I recently got re-certified, it cost me close to $500. So it probably was on his own time, or more importantly, on his own dime.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

PANCHITO said:


> Actually it work, I have seen them on other sites ( xbox games sites and appliances sites) and it will be a good way to isolate the sub contractors co. that is contracted by the contracted co. Here in Los Angeles CONNECTV have 17 sub contractor co. [yes D* contract CONNECTV and they sub contract MAXSAT and they sub contract Panchito and he do the job with his brother Juan]:eek2:


Yes, Panchito, I know how the HSP/subcontractor network is set up. It's the same way here with B&A. However, I think jhillestad was talking about private home theater and install companies and not members of the hsp network. That's what I got from the post anyway.


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Actually, I commend him. After probably being forced to sit in a boring class all day, he still made it to your home almost a full hour before being late (1-5 pm time frame) and got your job taken care of for you.


Ah... so you are saying installers can show up an hour late and still be considered on time?

I see!


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rasthan said:


> Ah... so you are saying installers can show up an hour late and still be considered on time?
> 
> I see!


Read my post again. I never said that.

8-12 is the window for an a.m. job and 1-5 is the p.m. window. Last time I checked, 4:01 is 59 minutes before the end of the 5 o'clock window.

Personally, I'd be glad knowing that he actually got my job done, even if it were a little later in the day than I had hoped for.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Do it myself? Line of site requires roof mounting. Freezing at about the third rung on the ladder requires someone not afraid of heights to do it.

We can not all do it ourselves. It would be nice but that's life.


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Read my post again. I never said that.
> 
> 8-12 is the window for an a.m. job and 1-5 is the p.m. window. Last time I checked, 4:01 is 59 minutes before the end of the 5 o'clock window.
> 
> Personally, I'd be glad knowing that he actually got my job done, even if it were a little later in the day than I had hoped for.


I plainly said my window was 1p-4p. That was not a typo. Thats what the DirecTV rep told me and thats what was on his papers when he came out.


----------



## axl (Sep 12, 2007)

dogs31 said:


> sounds like your original installer "might be a *******."
> 
> If you've ever used duct tape to secure a satellite dish ... you might be a *******:lol:


HA! touche! nice one!


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

jhillestad said:


> With all these " idiot " installers why wont people just install it themselves ? There is so much *****ing about bad installs but yet the people that complain cant do it either but they call the installer an idiot... Directv should contract out well qualified well trained installers and the customer should have to pay for it... instead of giving it away and hire " mexicans " ... Oh thats right no one wants to pay for the install.... Oh well ..... install it yourself and then point the finger at the ' idiot ' in the mirror when all does not go well.
> 
> there I ranted... but it had to be said....
> 
> ...


=============================
jhill,

There were many companies with competent installers. They did OJT to get the systems working. About a year ago, when DTV showed the new money offered in the Home Service Provider (HSP) and Master Service Provider (MSP) programs the installation companies that wanted to stay in business dumped DTV.

The word on the street was that if you wanted to continue with DTV work you had to make a deal with one of the MSPs. Well, that free or cheap deal didn't work with many experienced installers.

All this was before the 5 LNB dishes arrived. They are a little tricky to align but much harder for someone who has only the instructions in the box to figure out what to do.

Everyone has a first day on the job and that is who you are seeing these days.

Joe


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Guys, it's one thing to rant, but do not attack other members on the forum by callling them names. Please, either make your points in a constructive way or move on to another topic.


=========
Doug,

You are right about the name calling. I view ignorance as something that can be fixed while stupid is forever.

And it is true that great minds work on ideas while lesser ones concentrate on material things and the most base of us discuss people and personalities.

Still there is frustration out there.

Joe


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rasthan said:


> I plainly said my window was 1p-4p. That was not a typo. Thats what the DirecTV rep told me and thats what was on his papers when he came out.


Ok, so lets just say that the time is 1-4 if for no other reason than it really is pointless to the discussion. Do you really feel that showing up 1 minute late makes the installer one of the worst ones ever? Sorry to disagree, but I have seen much worse posted in these forums.


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Ok, so lets just say that the time is 1-4 if for no other reason than it really is pointless to the discussion. Do you really feel that showing up 1 minute late makes the installer one of the worst ones ever? Sorry to disagree, but I have seen much worse posted in these forums.


============Tigersfan,

Now you get it.

The HSP folks overbook the installer and tell them you take the whole route or don't work that day.

They also insist on time frames. Six AM to 9 AM, 9-11-etc.. Start before sun up and finish after dark.

Nobody knows how long an installation takes. Installers accept & rely on the installation to set a real schedule and confirm real arrival times.

My practice for years was to pre-call each customer and set a morning appointment and an afternoon appointment. I could set a schedule and if a job went long or short or did not happen (NLOS) I was able to keep customers aware of hoe things were going.

My truck is parked and I am expanding my phone work. It has become obvious that the HSP network can and will screw the installer and inconvenience the customer to protect their jobs & profitability.

Yeah, I have heard from management that if you arrive one minute before the end of the time slot you are on time. One minute after the time slot ends and it will cost you one hundred dollars for a no call / no show. Even if the customer had no phones and was not home.

But I wander on!

Joe


----------



## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

d1gw33d said:


> Ahh so it wasn't just me?! I scheduled last Wednesday and picked the first available time slot (Oct 1st 12-5PM) which was fine. Automated message confirming etc etc.
> 
> Ordered the HD DVR, a regular HD box and a regular box ($300 total) and was switching from Comcast.
> 
> ...


----------



## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

rasthan said:


> I plainly said my window was 1p-4p. That was not a typo. Thats what the DirecTV rep told me and thats what was on his papers when he came out.


HSP windows used to be 8-12 and 1-5, now they have 8-12, 12-4, and the *gulp* dreaded 4-8 appointment. I guess techs don't deserve to eat lunch, or ever make it home on time for dinner with their families. I would LOVE to see most of you be a tech for a month, which is at LEAST 6 days BTW and about 60-70 hours a week. I bet you all would have a fresh perspective. You complain about techs not showing up on time or at all? I average at LEAST 10 CUSTOMERS per week who are not home during the window. That's fine, because gas is so cheap... and I love wasting my time.. Oh yeah, and everything's free... Why should the customer have to pay for custom work that would easily cost them twice as much with an electrician?

Sorry, i've had a bad week, and had to vent. I'm an installer who is fed up with customers... Make no mistake, I did mean every word I wrote.

Any other techs care to comment?


----------



## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

Oh holy install nightmares Batman! My install is finally done. I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible. My install saga started one week ago when Mastec came out at 6:30pm and the guys basically didn't feel like having to drop one additional line for the DVR so they deemed the job too complicated and left. I think in reality they had just had enough installing for one day. Can't say I blame them but Mastec is obviously overbooking. I was asked to call D* back and request a reschedule with a lead tech because the coax drop was too complicated. So after an hour on the phone and having to ask for a supervisor just to get that done, they rescheduled me for yesterday. I politely requested a morning appointment so I wouldn't be bumped for other jobs, a lead tech, and someone who could speak English as it was difficult to communicate with the first guys who only spoke very little English. In the mean time, I dropped the additional line myself Sunday in about 30 minutes and even traced and labeled every line in the house and brought them all to a common point right where they needed them: I didn't want any excuses or crying this time from the techs. All they'd have to do is mount the dish, run a few cables up through the soffit, and connect.

Next chapter: guy shows up yesterday a little before 10:00am so I was happy to see him within the allotted window. He tells me he'll be outside for a while. I go back in and there's a knock on the door: "I have a big problem... I don't have the dish I need. I only have a standard install, not high def." Lucky for him, you have to really try hard to get me angry for me to pop, so I politely asked why he didn't have the equipment when every piece of equipment was listed on the work order and it had been in place for 5 days! I asked him to find another one of his buddies in another D* van down the road somewhere who had the right dish and tell him to bring it here because at this point, my install should be top priority. It was then he told me he didn't even have the HD DVR that I ordered even if he could get a dish! I told him if it wasn't installed that day, I would call D* and cancel the entire thing, telling them how incompetent the installer company was. I made it clear I wasn't pointing a finger at him because I know it might not be his fault but followed that up by telling him I didn't care who's fault it was: that if he showed up on a job missing the equipment to do the job, he should be able to go through his supervisor to rectify the problem. I had now taken two days off work to deal with them and I still had nothing.

Well, there's a lot more I can tell you but to keep it short, this guy actually stuck with it and got the job done. At first he left claiming there was nothing he could do and that I should call D* back again, but while I was on the phone ready to tell them to can the whole thing, he showed back up at the house 10 minutes later (how often does that happen?) saying he finally found his supervisor and he told him not to leave the job and that his supervisor would bring the proper equipment while he worked on the rest of the install. Well, the installer was told that the equipment was right around the corner, but it ended up not showing up until after 12:30 when this guy was just finishing the wiring and mounting hardware but he had to keep on them, calling back at least 4 times to say "I still need that equipment" before they finally showed with the equipment in a Budget rent-a-van.

It's been a real roller coaster but I'm happy... finally. I have my HD and the guy was super nice, understood my frustration, and we chatted during down times talking about NFL teams and other chit chat (he was from Jamaica so he had no current allegiance to any one team). I bought him lunch and gave him a little tip at the end of the job. He really did a top notch job with the hookup and mounting. I could hang all 210 pounds of me off that dish mount and it wouldn't move! And it's aligned so well that I get 96-100 on every transponder, every satellite! He only made one mistake that I found this morning when I lost the odd transponders on 119 and 103b: he forgot to crimp in the blue end piece to tighten the cable connector on two of the in-lines on the multiswitch so the center connector just pushed right out when he screwed it in. It was so loose that all it took was a couple loud rumbles of thunder overnight to pop it out. Minor mistake in my eyes though considering the rest of the job. I think he probably just forgot to come back and crimp those two lines: probably didn't have the tool at the time and intended to go back and forgot.

Anyway, moral of the story for me is that it is so difficult to get a good job done by anyone in any part of the DirecTV chain that if you are getting an install, if you need any new lines run at all, ask for a lead tech because you think the job will be more complex than average and always ask for a morning appointment (8-12 window instead of 1-5) even if you have to wait another day or two to get one! That way you won't get pushed off the schedule by the techs running late on the morning job! On my second appointment, I had to wait two additional days to get a morning appointment but it was worth the wait as I told them absolutely no more afternoon/evening appointments. At least they show up on morning appointments... more often than afternoon/evening appointments! Also, I realize now that I waited too long to ask for a supervisor at DirecTV. I got the infinite-transfer technique for literally one hour just trying to reschedule an install appointment and their automated transferring system finally just hung up on me at the end of the hour. It was then I called back and asked for a supervisor and he had everything squared away in about 30 minutes and he did it offline without me waiting and he called back when it was done (morning appointment made, lead tech, preferably someone who speaks English who can go over the job with me).

Believe me, I've done other D* installs at my other houses and I actually enjoy doing the work myself but I just don't feel like I should have to pay the cost of the dish, shipping, and all the cabling myself. That's about $300 I'd have to put out when it should be free! I was almost ready to cancel it and just fork out the money/time and do it myself but I'm glad it worked out in the end because honestly, I could not have mounted that dish as sturdy as this guy did. He didn't just use the standard mount: he also used thick metal anchors that braced the mount and made it the sturdiest mount I've seen. Maybe that's common with the new 5 LNB installs but I had never seen it and I don't think the typical slimline dish install from a place like Solid Signal comes with that.

Whew. Glad I kept it short, eh?  

Mike


----------



## Smooth Jazzer (Sep 5, 2007)

The duct tape joke is a cool piece of work!:icon_peac


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Ok, so lets just say that the time is 1-4 if for no other reason than it really is pointless to the discussion. Do you really feel that showing up 1 minute late makes the installer one of the worst ones ever? Sorry to disagree, but I have seen much worse posted in these forums.


Considering I was in my vehicle getting ready to leave for somewhere else at 4p when he pulled up the driveway, then yes, that is a problem to me.

If DTV says "Be home at 1p-4p", and I've done so, then I've honored my commitment. The installer didn't, nor did he call to let me know what was going on. Just as the installer has appointments scheduled throughout his day, so did I.

Anyway, there is nothing to argue over. I already let DTV know about the installer problem.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rasthan said:


> I loved the installer I had last week (not). My window was 1p - 4p. He showed up at 4:01p.
> 
> "Oh, I had to go take a test for certification" he said. Lame ass excuse. He should have done it on his own time, not mine.


SOOOOOOOOOOOOO you WANTED an uncertified / untrained ****ty installer huh ????????????????????????


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rasthan said:


> I plainly said my window was 1p-4p. That was not a typo. Thats what the DirecTV rep told me and thats what was on his papers when he came out.


when was the last time you were ONE minute late and got *****ed out by your boss


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

aim2pls said:


> SOOOOOOOOOOOOO you WANTED an uncertified / untrained ****ty installer huh ????????????????????????


I got one anyway. He might have had his certification paper, but nothing else:

"Oh! I didn't know this receiver was RF capable!"

"What channels is the HD stuff on?"

"Nice, this is my first time seeing these HD channels!"


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

joe diamond said:


> The HSP folks overbook the installer and tell them you take the whole route or don't work that day.


I've seen some not have any work for a few days for not taking their entire overbooked route. :nono2:

One thing is for sure, I'm extremely happy that I don't work directly for an hsp.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rasthan said:


> I got one anyway. He might have had his certification paper, but nothing else:
> 
> "Oh! I didn't know this receiver was RF capable!"
> 
> ...


rasthan, now it is making a little more sense to me. I can understand the tech being late (with a phone call to the customer). However, it makes it a lot more frustrating when you don't get a "heads up" call and the installer doesn't seem too bright when he does get there.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rasthan said:


> I got one anyway. He might have had his certification paper, but nothing else:
> 
> "Oh! I didn't know this receiver was RF capable!"
> 
> ...


don't dispute that at all .... but at least they are trying (i think)


----------



## Clato (Aug 30, 2007)

mrichman said:


> I think I just might! That was never offered to me as an option though.


YOU mean the installation tec never offered to use duct tape & cardboard to install your dish, !Devil_lol !rolling

clato


----------



## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

Well I can report with my issue of the diplexer, that 2 guys just showed up who actually knew that a pair of diplexers in the line will ruin 103b. One went on the roof and removed the one there so I now have a straight shot from antenna to BBC. Signal strengths on all tp's now in the 90's. :joy:


----------



## mrichman (Sep 30, 2007)

After a call to Mastech's president, Zach McGuire, I got a lead tech to come out today...he's outside working on the dish right now....and he's an American who speaks English!!!! (and a D* employee, not a Mastec contractor)

Looks like sat 103 was out of whack...he said 99(b) isnt used here in Florida...

...and...FIXED! 

The Mastec f**kheads left the dish misaligned and loose, and left my old dish laying on the ground underneath. Everything comes in perfectly now!!! The D* tech left me a welcome kit with his phone number in case of any further issues.

- Mark


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

mrichman said:


> The D* tech left me a welcome kit


Just curious, whats in the welcome kit?


----------



## mrichman (Sep 30, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> Just curious, whats in the welcome kit?


its nothing special...just a small folder with the installer's contact info, channel guide, some promotional material, and a few pages of quickstart instructions.

were you expecting chocolates in the shape of little satellite dishes?


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

mrichman said:


> its nothing special...just a small folder with the installer's contact info, channel guide, some promotional material, and a few pages of quickstart instructions.
> 
> were you expecting chocolates in the shape of little satellite dishes?


Yes, and a gift card to a local electronics store.


----------



## mrichman (Sep 30, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> Yes, and a gift card to a local electronics store.


they really should provide a spanish/english dictionary so you can communicate with the illegal aliens they send to your home.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

mrichman said:


> they really should provide a spanish/english dictionary so you can communicate with the illegal aliens they send to your home.


No me lagos de pedo!


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

mrichman said:


> they really should provide a spanish/english dictionary so you can communicate with the illegal aliens they send to your home.


Thats a bit uncalled for.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Thats a bit uncalled for.


+1


----------



## mishawaka (Sep 11, 2007)

hombresoto said:


> HSP windows used to be 8-12 and 1-5, now they have 8-12, 12-4, and the *gulp* dreaded 4-8 appointment. I guess techs don't deserve to eat lunch, or ever make it home on time for dinner with their families. I would LOVE to see most of you be a tech for a month, which is at LEAST 6 days BTW and about 60-70 hours a week. I bet you all would have a fresh perspective. You complain about techs not showing up on time or at all? I average at LEAST 10 CUSTOMERS per week who are not home during the window. That's fine, because gas is so cheap... and I love wasting my time.. Oh yeah, and everything's free... Why should the customer have to pay for custom work that would easily cost them twice as much with an electrician?
> 
> Sorry, i've had a bad week, and had to vent. I'm an installer who is fed up with customers... Make no mistake, I did mean every word I wrote.
> 
> Any other techs care to comment?


here's an idea, get a new job, and quit griping.


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

mishawaka said:


> here's an idea, get a new job, and quit griping.


It worked for me.

Joe


----------



## ChrisPC (Jun 17, 2003)

hombresoto said:


> I would LOVE to see most of you be a tech for a month, which is at LEAST 6 days BTW and about 60-70 hours a week. I bet you all would have a fresh perspective.


I was one for a month. I did service calls, and most customers wanted me to come out for the most ridiculous reasons, like to reprogram remotes! On the other hand, most installers I worked with were total scumbags. I had to fix their mistakes, like splitters in the line instead of dual LNBs! They were jealous of my knowledge, and openly admitted they pirated D*! :nono2:


----------



## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

I didn't want the installer to be on my job any longer than absolutely required, and I definitely didn't want wire running across my roof and down the sides of my house. I did all the wiring - siamese RG-6 + RJ45 from 5 rooms to my panel in the garage. I put on waterproof compression F-connectors, mounted the multi-switch and finished with wall plates. All the installer had to do was mount the dish, run the lines to the multi-switch, and do the alignment. I spent my own money, and I spent my own time, and I got the install I wanted. I figured trying to force my quality standards on a "free" install was just going to make everyone unhappy. 

And no, I wouldn't want to be an installer - not because I couldn't do it - but because I don't have to - I did my hard work in college specifically so that I could make a living with my brain, not my back...


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> I didn't want the installer to be on my job any longer than absolutely required, and I definitely didn't want wire running across my roof and down the sides of my house. I did all the wiring - siamese RG-6 + RJ45 from 5 rooms to my panel in the garage. I put on waterproof compression F-connectors, mounted the multi-switch and finished with wall plates. All the installer had to do was mount the dish, run the lines to the multi-switch, and do the alignment. I spent my own money, and I spent my own time, and I got the install I wanted. I figured trying to force my quality standards on a "free" install was just going to make everyone unhappy.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't want to be an installer - not because I couldn't do it - but because I don't have to - I did my hard work in college specifically so that I could make a living with my brain, not my back...


Glad to hear you aren't totally afraid of doing real work ..... BUT ...... a college ed doesn't make you better and above doing "real" work .....

I take it you also understand what a "free" install entales ... unfortunately a large number of potential customers do not ... and request/demand that non-standard items be included "free"

these "free" add-ons add to the installation time .. thus causing the next installation to be delayed thus making the installer late ... only to be repeated by the next customer

FYI .... I have a college degree .... did high tech consulting to fortune 500 companies for over 20 years .... left the "yuppie" corporate world way too many years ago to admit ... get my hands dirty daily (better physical shape today) .... (pssst) make more money ...... own ONE three piece suit today ..... work when i want too (maybe 9 months a year) ... I do not do consumer DTV installs (doesn't pay near enough) .. would rather spend a few hours doing a commercial install and making a weeks pay


----------



## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

I hear ya - there are many days when I'm ready to chuck 20+ years of office life and go back to my farm roots. If I could figure out how to make more money doing something I enjoyed more, I'd be there in a heartbeat.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

mishawaka said:


> here's an idea, get a new job, and quit griping.


:nono2:

It's funny to me that there is so much griping going on around here about such petty things. Yet this is always the reaction when an installer has a complaint.

Some might say that your quote works both ways.


----------



## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> :nono2:
> 
> It's funny to me that there is so much griping going on around here about such petty things. Yet this is always the reaction when an installer has a complaint.
> 
> Some might say that your quote works both ways.


Except for one small difference - it is some of my hard earned money that is ultimately paying the installer. Even in a "free" install, D* runs their business on revenue collected from me and all the other subscribers, and some that is eventually trickled down to the installer who shows up at my door. That gives me at least some justification for wanting a reasonable level of service. Of course, I agree that some complaints are extremely petty, and in my experience you get more for your money by partnering with the installer rather than being contentious - but it is not a completely even relationship. I'm still the customer, and the installer is still an agent of the vendor.


----------



## Jagg (Oct 3, 2007)

Another rant on Mastec here in South Florida. I am a victim of the dreaded 771 error that so many people are getting. I finally ended up on DBStalk because of it and the wonderful people here. I am not a Sat wiz, but i am starting to self educate through this board. 

About 3 weeks ago, i had my new HD system installed (new dish and DVR). Everything worked fine, except for the dreaded 771 searching for signal error. I called D* and they were sending a Mastec tech out today to see the problem (this is after i talked her out of replacing my brand new DVR).

Now the interesting part. Over the weekend, someone in a D* shows up and says she is from Installs, Inc. to verify my installation. So we go to look at it and she starts reciting a laundry list of installation mistakes. I don't remember them all, but they include:

1. Not replacing any of the old wiring with higher grade HD capable wiring 
2. Not grounding the sat.
3. Not capping the wire where it enters the house
4. Leaving the switch (WB68) exposed to rain.
5. Staples through the wires
6. Wires connected to the switch that don't go anywhere.
7. Wires bent and twisted.

I could go on, but i don't remember everything she said. I didn't know about any of this to complain during the install, but i know now. I canceled the appt for today because i want the report in the system before they come. 

The worst part is they are sending Mastec out to fix the problem since they are the only install tech in the area. I registered a complaint about them, but i doubt it will help. The fact that the installers don't speak english adds to the frustration.


----------



## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Jagg said:


> Another rant on Mastec here in South Florida. I am a victim of the dreaded 771 error that so many people are getting. I finally ended up on
> 
> 1. Not replacing any of the old wiring with higher grade HD capable wiring
> 
> help. The fact that the installers don't speak english adds to the frustration.


HD capable wiring ??? WTF

You mean RG-6 ?

RG6 is used by DTV since 1994 so unless they got a hold of some RG59 from an old cable tv install..... which I guess is possible..... pretty funny....

but anyway the cable is RG6 and its got nothing to do with HD ...


----------



## Jagg (Oct 3, 2007)

jhillestad said:


> HD capable wiring ??? WTF
> 
> You mean RG-6 ?
> 
> ...


I think they did, since some of the wiring was the original cable tv wiring from around 1990. I had no idea what the wiring should be (or is called) but she was shocked to see it. LIke i said i don't remember exactly what she said, but any of those things could potentially cause the 771 error.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> I hear ya - there are many days when I'm ready to chuck 20+ years of office life and go back to my farm roots. If I could figure out how to make more money doing something I enjoyed more, I'd be there in a heartbeat.


it's great to do .. best thing i ever did in my life


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> Except for one small difference - it is some of my hard earned money that is ultimately paying the installer. Even in a "free" install, D* runs their business on revenue collected from me and all the other subscribers, and some that is eventually trickled down to the installer who shows up at my door. That gives me at least some justification for wanting a reasonable level of service. Of course, I agree that some complaints are extremely petty, and in my experience you get more for your money by partnering with the installer rather than being contentious - but it is not a completely even relationship. I'm still the customer, and the installer is still an agent of the vendor.


I understand what you are saying, and agree with you. However, I was talking about the comment made to hombresoto about the huge amount of hours and especially about the door tagging when a customer isn't home.

When the installer door tags a customer for not being home, no customer has paid anything as the installer doesn't make a penny off the job (except the hourly wage guys who don't make crap ayway). The only person out any money is the installer. That's not to mention the 45+ minutes that the installer is made to sit there at an empty house when he could be making money elsewhere (I'm made to wait 30 minutes, not counting the two phone calls that usually last 15-20 minutes a piece for each job).

Am I complaining? Maybe a little. Am I going to quit a job that I love and make darn good money doing? Nope. We'd all probably be unemployed if we quit every time we felt overworked or underpaid. Then, as there would be no installers and we'd be too broke to pay for it, there would be no D* at all.


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

Yes, this is an old thread, but I have something to add.  

Today, I had an appointment from 12p-4p to fix an issue with my H20. Lo and behold, 4:01p comes around, so I leave because I have business to take care of.

I return to find a note on my door about him arriving at 4:15p. And now I have this guy with a thick indian accent telling me on my voicemail "The installer arrived this morning and you were not present."

Yeah, ok. :nono2:


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

rasthan said:


> Yes, this is an old thread, but I have something to add.
> 
> Today, I had an appointment from 12p-4p to fix an issue with my H20. Lo and behold, 4:01p comes around, so I leave because I have business to take care of.
> 
> ...


The tech called a call center in India. He reported he was at your home and you were not. Then the Indian CSR called your number to make sure the tech was not lying. An afternoon in North America is tomorrow morning in India.

They will be back........maybe.

Joe


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

BTW, you have a better chance of getting the work done with a morning appointment. I'm guessing that many afternoon appointments run way late if at all due to problems in the morning.

Any installers care to verify?


----------



## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> BTW, you have a better chance of getting the work done with a morning appointment. I'm guessing that many afternoon appointments run way late if at all due to problems in the morning.


Thats my thinking. So, the next attempt is scheduled for Sunday morning!


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> BTW, you have a better chance of getting the work done with a morning appointment. I'm guessing that many afternoon appointments run way late if at all due to problems in the morning.
> 
> Any installers care to verify?


That sort of works.

I look (looked ) at the whole day. Then got on the phone to align the addresses into a possible route. They think nothing of giving six job, all AM times and two saying FIRST AM. Also, some of them said, "DO NOT SEND SAME TECH AGAIN".

You can drive to the most distant job and work back home. You can start with the job across the street and work away from your site. What you cannot do is randomly drive all over six counties to keep a schedule random CSRs threw together.

And some days all the jobs are (were) in the same zip.

Roll the dice.

Joe


----------



## STEVED21 (Feb 6, 2006)

rasthan said:


> Yes, this is an old thread, but I have something to add.
> 
> Today, I had an appointment from 12p-4p to fix an issue with my H20. Lo and behold, 4:01p comes around, so I leave because I have business to take care of.
> 
> ...


So..... you sat for 4 hours and left at 4:01. No call, nothing to see where he was. Based on what people report here and my own experience, 4:15 is virtually on time.


----------



## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm not a professional installer by any means, but I have always installed my own equipment. Not to defend the incompetent installers out there, but you never know what kind of problems you're going to run into. Also the weather probably plays a huge role in this.

I'm sure that most of these guys are overbooked and underpaid, and the good installers really do care about quality work.

Unfortunately all we ever hear about are the bad things, very seldom do people give praise for a nice job.

*"It Is What It Is"*


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

STEVED21 said:


> So..... you sat for 4 hours and left at 4:01. No call, nothing to see where he was. Based on what people report here and my own experience, 4:15 is virtually on time.


I think most people view a service call scheduled between 12 and 4 as meaning the tech will show up after 12 and leave by 4. Thus they will clear their schedule from 12 to 4 for the service call, but will not clear their schedule for after 4 (unless they are specifically told that the tech will show up by 4 and may take up to two hours to complete the job, in which case they will clear their schedule through 6).


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

Upstream said:


> I think most people view a service call scheduled between 12 and 4 as meaning the tech will show up after 12 and leave by 4. Thus they will clear their schedule from 12 to 4 for the service call, but will not clear their schedule for after 4 (unless they are specifically told that the tech will show up by 4 and may take up to two hours to complete the job, in which case they will clear their schedule through 6).


Uh....no!

A service call means drive there from the nearest other job. Do exactly what the work order states. IF a tech finds himself arriving at a service call at noon and still working at 4:00 he needs further training. Service calls pay thirty dollars or less.

Some service calls are actually complete rebuilds or no line of sight situations. No amount of skill will make them happen faster. The only thing that will not change is the money offered to accomplish them.

A courtesy call with an ETA does help everybody get along. as in, Hi, I am Joe and I have a service request for you at 8:00AM. I will not be able to drive there until at least 11:00 AM. Will that be satisfactory to you? That is usually possible.

Joe


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

The fundamental problem that I have seen with installs is they (whoever schedules them) do not allocate enough time for each one. When I upgraded to HD, all I needed done was to have the new dish put in and the new receiver activated. It still took the installer 2 hours. I was her second morning appointment and she didn't get to my house until 11:30. They need to be more reasonable as to how quickly they expect the installers to work.


----------



## cosmo (Mar 3, 2005)

i just started doing installs and troubleshooting for DTV. if i know im going to be late i call the number the customer has and let them know ( so far only once.)and if i get there ill wait 15 minutes for them,leave my card with cell number so if they come home and im around i will go back.

my boss tries to group the installs service in the same zip code or 2( n.j.)
and so far i get paid pretty good.
about 75.00 for a basic install. times 4-6 installs a day... i do 5-6 days a week. the guy who trained me(only took a week) made 100k last year not bad.ive been installing dishes and tvs for 15 years now.

not to mention the service calls which are sometimes user error or mostly a screwed up install from a previous installer.
how can you not be nice to people? your coming in they're home. they always ask if i want a drink of anything.. i make sure my boots are clean, i even carry a pair of sneakers,just in case
If they ask if i can do something and its not on the service call I try and do it without charge if its not going to eat up my time. i don't want to be late for the next customer.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

dbronstein said:


> The fundamental problem that I have seen with installs is they (whoever schedules them) do not allocate enough time for each one. When I upgraded to HD, all I needed done was to have the new dish put in and the new receiver activated. It still took the installer 2 hours. I was her second morning appointment and she didn't get to my house until 11:30. They need to be more reasonable as to how quickly they expect the installers to work.


The problem is that there is simply no way to know how long any job will take. An estimate is made based on what the work order says, but work orders are very often wrong. Plus, lots of other things happen. A few examples:

- Work order says 2 room, basic receiver install. Should take 2 hours. It's the first of 2 AMs, with 2 PMs also. Tech arrives at 8:15am, customer states "I specifically ordered 6 DVRs; install them now." Tech must call, spend 30-60 minutes getting work order changed, and then 6-7 hours installing the 6 DVR system. He is now late to 3 other jobs, and not to mention, he hasn't been able to eat or use the restroom since 7am. We all know about how customers feel about pooping in their house...

- Work order says "HD-DVR upgrade". Customer has 5 existing receivers. The old dish location isn't suitable for the new dish due to line of site or mounting requirements. Customer wants dish on the other side of the house. Tech has to rip out the entire existing system and re-build it to feed a total of 6 receivers. Did I mention he gets $45 for that upgrade, which doesn't even cover the cost of the cable used? Oh, and this "upgrade" takes 5 hours; it was programmed for 1.5 hours.

- Work order says "New install, 2 HD-DVRs." Customer insists on wallfishes. Attic is 145F, filled with precious, irreplacable Christmas decoractions that the tech has to spend 30 minutes moving around before he can get to the fish location. Tech has to balance on hands and knees in 2' of blown-in fiberglass, with 18" of clearance, trying to feed a 4.5' flex bit into a hole to drill through the fire block. Drill batteries get worn out, have to recharge. Customer upset that fiberglass is everywhere, tech has to vacuum. One of the DVRs is DOA, tech wasn't allowed to check out extras because supplies are low. This job, programmed for 3 hours, takes 7.

This stuff happens every single day to most techs. Yet the HSPs route them 4-6 jobs a day. The tech has to waste an hour of worktime keeping his other customers, several of whom he won't ever get to, up to date on his status throughout the day.

This is why I'm always amazed to hear people here post how their tech was "great" and how they kept the tech there for 6 hours until everything was done. And they were the same ones complaining that their earlier appointments were missed...


----------



## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

IIP said:


> The problem is that there is simply no way to know how long any job will take. An estimate is made based on what the work order says, but work orders are very often wrong. Plus, lots of other things happen. A few examples:
> 
> - Work order says 2 room, basic receiver install. Should take 2 hours. It's the first of 2 AMs, with 2 PMs also. Tech arrives at 8:15am, customer states "I specifically ordered 6 DVRs; install them now." Tech must call, spend 30-60 minutes getting work order changed, and then 6-7 hours installing the 6 DVR system. He is now late to 3 other jobs, and not to mention, he hasn't been able to eat or use the restroom since 7am. We all know about how customers feel about pooping in their house...
> 
> ...


Hey my favorite was an old lady who said her previous tech came with a terrible cold worked in a zero degree weather outside then came inside and did a 3 hour wallfish for free. She asked if I would do her a free wallfish in a trailer. I said I dont do wallfishes plus its a trailer you dont have an attic :nono2: I drilled a bunch of holes in the house and she was very happy.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

IIP said:


> The problem is that there is simply no way to know how long any job will take.


Right. That's why they need to allocate more time for each one. From what I have seen, they only allocate the "best case scenario" time for every job, and as we all know, that hardly ever occurs.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

IIP said:


> The problem is that there is simply no way to know how long any job will take. An estimate is made based on what the work order says, but work orders are very often wrong. Plus, lots of other things happen. A few examples:


So what you are basically saying, is it is DirecTV's fault, and sometimes the HSP's fault.

From your examples:

_- Work order says 2 room, basic receiver install. Should take 2 hours. It's the first of 2 AMs, with 2 PMs also. Tech arrives at 8:15am, customer states "I specifically ordered 6 DVRs; install them now." Tech must call, spend 30-60 minutes getting work order changed_ So DirecTV got the work order wrong. And DirecTV never confirmed the work order with the customer. And the HSP didn't confirm the work order with the customer either. A written confirmation from DirecTV (or the HSP) would avoid most of these issues. And if the tech has to spend 30 minutes on the phone with DirecTV, that sounds like DirecTV has a staffing or process problem.

_Work order says "HD-DVR upgrade". Customer has 5 existing receivers._ DirecTV knows how many receivers the customer has. This shouldn't be a surprise. And like the previous example, written confirmation of the work order would allow the customer to correct things like the number of receivers or if the customer wants the dish moved.

_- Work order says "New install, 2 HD-DVRs." Customer insists on wallfishes. Attic is 145F, filled with precious, irreplacable Christmas decoractions that the tech has to spend 30 minutes moving around before he can get to the fish location. _ Again, this is a problem of DirecTV not confirming with the customer what the customer wants. If the customer wants wallfishes, then DirecTV should reflect that on the workorder (along with instructions on clearing out space for the wallfishes). Otherwise the written confirmation of the work order should tell the customer that it does not include wallfishes, and the confirmation should describe what is included.

_One of the DVRs is DOA, tech wasn't allowed to check out extras because supplies are low._ If it is a refurbished DVR, then it should have been tested by DirecTV (and probably by the HSP) before going out to the customer's site. And the excuse that the tech can't carry spare parts is a flimsy excuse. If DOA equipment happens all the time, then a policy which forbids carrying spare parts is a stupid policy.

You can't blame the customer for DirecTV's poor policies and processes. And you can't blame the customer because DirecTV is incapable of communicating effectively with the HSP, tech, or customer.

Stuff will still happen. But it should be the exception, not the rule. Besides, DirecTV has been doing this for 10 to 15 years. They should have enough data to estimate how much time a service call or install will take. They should be able to predict it 80 percent of the time to within 30 minutes, and they are giving themselves a 4 hour window.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Upstream said:


> So what you are basically saying, is it is DirecTV's fault, and sometimes the HSP's fault.
> 
> From your examples:
> _- Work order says "New install, 2 HD-DVRs." Customer insists on wallfishes. Attic is 145F, filled with precious, irreplacable Christmas decoractions that the tech has to spend 30 minutes moving around before he can get to the fish location. _ Again, this is a problem of DirecTV not confirming with the customer what the customer wants. If the customer wants wallfishes, then DirecTV should reflect that on the workorder (along with instructions on clearing out space for the wallfishes). Otherwise the written confirmation of the work order should tell the customer that it does not include wallfishes, and the confirmation should describe what is included.
> ...


While I don't see blame here on the customer's part for any of these situations, as to the first item I quoted, I have a feeling that most customers are not going to have a clue what "wallfishes" are and I don't really think the CSRs setting up these installs are going to be able to effectively "plan" and document what all will be involved in the installation - and if they tried, I would imagine it would wind up being an even BIGGER cluster-mess than it is now. Not to mention requiring even more phone time between the installer and DirecTV clearing up even messier and more incorrect workorders than there are now.

As to the second point (and I am not in the install business at all, nor the satellite business for that matter), from what I've read in posts on DBSTalk, there is not a lot of inventory on hand at install shops anyway and they are pretty much shipped what DirecTV expects they will need, so I really can't see that its really possible in today's environment for all of the HSPs/install shops to have excess inventory around to cover DOA receivers - whether new or refurbed. It would be nice, but I don't think feasible - especially on a national basis like DirecTV is.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Just to add to what IIP said.

Just today, I had a HD upgrade scheduled for a customer. It was supposed to be install a Slimline and add a new HD box somewhere. I think it was alloted 115 minutes.

Anyway, when I get there and start going over what needs to be done, I find out the work order isn't even close.

The customer had two old Hughes boxes active on a basic dish. He also has obtained from somewhere an R15 and a D11 that he also wants installed. In addition to those mystery boxes, he wants a second HD box. To make all of that work, we'll now need to add a 6x8 to the mix. There is zero chance off all this getting installed in the time alloted. 

It's surprises like these that blow up any chance of making later appointments on time.

I don't care who's fault it is, be it the customer for not telling the CSR what he really wants/has or the CSR being lazy and building the work order for whatever will fit under "free". (To add to the lazy CSR, I've had many customers say "The CSR said to tell you '...' " It's a CSRs way of not having to battle with the customer over whats free/not free)

Again, don't care who's at fault. Just give me a work order that is correct with sufficient time to complete it.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

RobertE, I am a customer, not an installer, however the customer needs to understand that anything not on the work order will an extra charge or have to be scheduled at another time. If that makes me unkind then so be it. They are the ones looking for extra freebies and as a result being unkind to the rest of the days scheduled customers that are sitting there waiting for you to show. 


Sorry for getting on the soapbox below. :soapbox: 
When I quote a price for computer repair and the customer brings in the computer and says "As long as you are working on it I also need ............. 

They hear that will cost more than I quoted. Then there are the mystery repairs. When the computer comes in I Always say write down all the problems. They write down some. When they come to pick it up they ask about what isn't written down. 
I tell them I refer to the paper for what to do, They say but I told you what needs doing. My answer is that by the time I get to it all that days computers run together for what is needed. I use what they write down as a memory aid. 

It may be I've been ruined by people coming into the shop and I ask can I help you? No, just looking. Then they sidle up to the workbench having in their minds established into my thinking they are customers. Then they get to the reason they came in. I look up and say can I help you again? Then I hear "My computer is doing blah, blah, blah, What do you think it is? They're just looking for me to spend time telling them how to fix it for free. Or they ask about specific hardware so that I can waste my time explaining it so they can go on the Internet and buy it for cheaper. I know this because some of them have enough nerve to come back and say I bought it on the internet and isn't I wanted and you said it was. Or they come in and buy parts and then open them write on the manuals throw away the packaging and want a full refund since it didn't fix their problem. We have pretty much eliminated that problem by charging a 20% restock fee.

The only advice I give for free is Format the Drive and re-install everything, Then I hear but I don't have the discs for my software and my friend I borrowed them from has moved away.

Then friends ask me why I say I can't wait until i can retire!

:backtotop ? Happy Fourth of July everybody.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I have a feeling that most customers are not going to have a clue what "wallfishes" are


I think you are probably right, but I really don't know. DirecTV does know. They've been doing this for 15 years. They know what percentage of their customers requested a wallfish once the installer got there. If a large percentage wanted a wallfish (even if they didn't know what it was), then DirecTV can very easily educate their customers with an illustration of a standard through-the-exterior-wall install, and the additional-cost wallfish install.

There are only 4 parties involved in these kind of installation problems: the customer, the tech, the HSP, and DirecTV. If the problems are the fault of the tech or the HSP, then it is DirecTV's fault since they select the HSP and, indirectly, the techs. If the problems are rare and isolated, then they could be the fault of isolated customers. But if the problems are common and frequent, then it is just a symptom of market conditions, and DirecTV needs to react to the market, so it is still DirecTV's fault.

You can make excuses for DirecTV. But it is still their issue, and they need to find the solution if they want the problem to be solved.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Upstream said:


> So what you are basically saying, is it is DirecTV's fault, and sometimes the HSP's fault.


Correct. Techs don't schedule themselves. HSPs overestimate the amount of jobs they can handle per day because they don't want DirecTV to know that they don't have enough installers, and don't want DirecTV to bring in an AFS (a secondary contracting company) to take a portion of their work. But this goes on in every DMA, so DirecTV tacitly allows it.



> From your examples:
> 
> _- Work order says 2 room, basic receiver install. Should take 2 hours. It's the first of 2 AMs, with 2 PMs also. Tech arrives at 8:15am, customer states "I specifically ordered 6 DVRs; install them now." Tech must call, spend 30-60 minutes getting work order changed_ So DirecTV got the work order wrong. And DirecTV never confirmed the work order with the customer. And the HSP didn't confirm the work order with the customer either. A written confirmation from DirecTV (or the HSP) would avoid most of these issues. And if the tech has to spend 30 minutes on the phone with DirecTV, that sounds like DirecTV has a staffing or process problem.


This is partially a DirecTV systems issue, partially a CSR training issue, and partially an issue with customers demanding that CSRs give them deals or build work orders that violate business rules. The systems are programmed to prevent that, and CSRs try to work around the rules in various ways. Often, the system catches this manipulation and cancels the work order.



> _Work order says "HD-DVR upgrade". Customer has 5 existing receivers._ DirecTV knows how many receivers the customer has. This shouldn't be a surprise. And like the previous example, written confirmation of the work order would allow the customer to correct things like the number of receivers or if the customer wants the dish moved.


You're not following here. The customer has a dish and 5 working receivers. The assumption is made by everyone but the installer that upgrading to an HD receiver means the tech is going to come and swap out the box, and, possibly, swap out the dish at its existing location, using the existing cables.

It isn't until the tech gets out there and figures out that the new dish can't be mounted in the old dish's location, due to line-of-site issues or because that location won't support a much larger, heavier dish, that another location has to be found. And, the customer often doesn't like the first couple of choices that the installer offers, which would allow him to use the existing cabling. Instead, it occurs to the customer, right then, that they'd like the dish moved, requiring recabling of the entire job.

Yes, DirecTV and the HSPs should both pay more and allocate more time for HD upgrades, but even if they did, there are still many jobs that will go way over the average time.



> _- Work order says "New install, 2 HD-DVRs." Customer insists on wallfishes. Attic is 145F, filled with precious, irreplacable Christmas decoractions that the tech has to spend 30 minutes moving around before he can get to the fish location. _ Again, this is a problem of DirecTV not confirming with the customer what the customer wants. If the customer wants wallfishes, then DirecTV should reflect that on the workorder (along with instructions on clearing out space for the wallfishes). Otherwise the written confirmation of the work order should tell the customer that it does not include wallfishes, and the confirmation should describe what is included.


Once again, these are issues that simply can't be determined until a tech is on-site. CSRs will never have any way of knowing what existing cables may be there, or if the customer wants the receiver on another wall, or whatever. And customers don't know what a wall fish is, or if one can be done. And CSRs can't take an hour to listen to the customer describe their house construction and go over potential cable routing. It's WAY too complicated for a CSR who can't see what's going on. And, besides, everyone wants everything for FREE, and DirecTV does advertise "Free Professional Installation." People assume that means that they'll get wall fishes whereever they like, for free. It is the installer who is put on the spot to explain otherwise.



> _One of the DVRs is DOA, tech wasn't allowed to check out extras because supplies are low._ If it is a refurbished DVR, then it should have been tested by DirecTV (and probably by the HSP) before going out to the customer's site. And the excuse that the tech can't carry spare parts is a flimsy excuse. If DOA equipment happens all the time, then a policy which forbids carrying spare parts is a stupid policy.


In ideal circumstances, installers carry spares, but demand for HD from DirecTV has been so high that receivers are being installed faster than they can be delivered.



> You can't blame the customer for DirecTV's poor policies and processes. And you can't blame the customer because DirecTV is incapable of communicating effectively with the HSP, tech, or customer.


Much of the blame is DirecTV's and the HSPs. Some of it *is* on the customer, though, as there is a lot of last-minute changes, add-ons, demands for "deals", artificial restrictions (dish placement, cable visibility, wall fishes, etc.), and other things that cause the tech to run very late and lose lots of time.

The title of this thread is "Worst Installers Ever," but the complaints about the installers running late are almost never the fault of the installer. He just gets the blame, and has to deal with the irate customers, hours on the phone, and extra demands for free work (on his dime, not DirecTV's) to make the customer happy.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Upstream said:


> DirecTV does know. They know what percentage of their customers requested a wallfish once the installer got there.


No, actually, they have no clue at all. Since most installation work is done by subcontractors, that is handled between the contractor and the customer. And even the in-house techs who do a wall fish only report that to the HSP; that information never goes to DirecTV in any way.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> While I don't see blame here on the customer's part for any of these situations,.....





Upstream said:


> You can make excuses for DirecTV. But it is still their issue, and they need to find the solution if they want the problem to be solved.


Whoa there! I've quoted for you the first line of my response, just in case that elluded you. I am not trying to make excuses for DirecTV here.

As others have stated (in addition to what I said myself), CSRs are not going to be able to envision a customer's home and mind-read what it is they REALLY want when they aren't stating that.

If DirecTV wanted to overproduce their inventory so that each HSP/installer had access to redundant numbers of receivers so they would always have a spare, they could do that.

If DirecTV wanted to employ a workforce whose job it would be to visit the customer's home, walk through everything they are wanting/expecting for an install, then write up work orders to make sure that is all there, all inclusive, so the install tech knows exactly what is to be done and how it could be done, then DirecTV could do that, too. The truth is I doubt that's a business plan that anyone would buy off on - and I'd hate to think of the effect that would have on the cost of my service.

Not trying to make excuses for DirecTV, just trying to point out the real world perspective on a few things. I'm sorry if you interpret it differently.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

IIP -- Yeah. When I wrote that "DirecTV does know", I realized that in reality they didn't have a clue. That is because they never bothered to collect the information. They could collect the information if they wanted to, but I don't think they really care since they just blame the HSP and the tech for any problems.


----------



## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

I always carry extra HD boxes and dishes. I can tell CSR mistake the minute I walk into the house. How can you miss a new 52" $3,500 brand spankin new HDTV sitting like a king in the middle of that livig room? My professional pride wouldnt allow me to install a basic receiver.


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

This thread is what forums are all about.

There has been a thoughtful exchange of ideas to isolate a problem. However, I think the DTV position was and still is that they are in the satellite TV business. The boxes and cables are another business and DTV seeks to buy installation services. Enough jobs go in just OK. Unless a DTV van makes the evening news running over a puppy not much will be said about the screw ups that make the forums.

Joe


----------



## bbeeman (Feb 13, 2008)

n3ntj said:


> Sounds like the totally incompetent D* contracted company called Ironwood, we all love to hate. I've had Ironwood here several times (such as the HD install) and after 5 visits, things were finally working.


If you count "no call, no show" it took six here to get a working install. From order to initial appointment was six and a half weeks (change old dish to 5 LNB unit, add HR-21-250). No call, no show. DirecTV CSR give me Ironwood dispatch number. Ironwood dispatch clueless.

Second appointment, another ten days. Again, no call, no show. Ironwood still clueless.

Third appointment....did call, no show. Rebooked for four days later.

Fourth appointment finally kept. One English-speaking installer, one non-English speaking trainee. System worked when they left. DVR died a day later.

Fifth appointment to replace DVR went well, except that the idiot backed almost on the front porch in trying to turn around (we have a huge turning area, so shouldn't have been near the house. Peeled out, tearing a strip out of the lawn almost fifteen feet long and flipping dirt up all over the front door and porch. Rain three days later, all signal gone, did not return for six days.

Sixth appointment, finally got competent installer. He found that three of the cables at the dish were seriously pulled back, and two were not fully compressed and still had water in them. He also realigned the dish, replaced two missing nuts and tightened the mount down.

Total elapsed time on all this nearly three months. So how does either Ironwood or DirecTV make out on this? DirectTV wound up comping me two months of service, Ironwood had the three trips, at least one of which was clearly due to incompetence on the part of the original duo. I'm assuming they put a charge-back on the initial pair, but they've still got a lot of time and mileage invested in what should have been a simple job.

Seems to me that both companies are leaving a lot of profit on the table that a little better management could capture.


----------



## Birdman79 (Apr 8, 2007)

ironwood said:


> I always carry extra HD boxes and dishes. I can tell CSR mistake the minute I walk into the house. How can you miss a new 52" $3,500 brand spankin new HDTV sitting like a king in the middle of that livig room? My professional pride wouldnt allow me to install a basic receiver.


Left the warehouse with 7 receivers total(3dvrs,4 std).Last job was a service call, which was rescheduled to me ,cause the previous tech didn't have any HD boxes.Customer is being a D*** and is EFFING this and EFFFING that,like it's my fault that i don't have the boxes :nono2: .I walk off the job ,and my supervisor ends up doing the job .He had gotten boxes later that day when the shipment arrived at the warehouse.

I could think of 2 Installs in the past month,where i had to go back the second day to finish up an install.Because the customer wanted HD dvrs and i didn't have any in my truck.In both I explained to the customer that i was installing 1std HD and 3 std boxes.Just when i am ready to activate they'd walk toward the reciever and ask "so how do i use the HD dvr?" .In one of them we had to call and create another work order the guy sits there for 45 minutes going on and on and on to get a free HD DVR ,til i told him that i am packing up the receivers to come and finish up when him and DTV are on the same page,then he agrees to pay for it.

a lot of CSR 's just tell the customer what he wants to hear,Some customers want everything for free,HSP's want the jobs to go through so they can hit their bonuses.Yet it's the techs Fault for everything that goes wrong.:nono2:


----------



## joe diamond (Feb 28, 2007)

Telstar12 said:


> Left the warehouse with 7 receivers total(3dvrs,4 std).Last job was a service call, which was rescheduled to me ,cause the previous tech didn't have any HD boxes.Customer is being a D*** and is EFFING this and EFFFING that,like it's my fault that i don't have the boxes :nono2: .I walk off the job ,and my supervisor ends up doing the job .He had gotten boxes later that day when the shipment arrived at the warehouse.
> 
> I could think of 2 Installs in the past month,where i had to go back the second day to finish up an install.Because the customer wanted HD dvrs and i didn't have any in my truck.In both I explained to the customer that i was installing 1std HD and 3 std boxes.Just when i am ready to activate they'd walk toward the reciever and ask "so how do i use the HD dvr?" .In one of them we had to call and create another work order the guy sits there for 45 minutes going on and on and on to get a free HD DVR ,til i told him that i am packing up the receivers to come and finish up when him and DTV are on the same page,then he agrees to pay for it.
> 
> a lot of CSR 's just tell the customer what he wants to hear,Some customers want everything for free,HSP's want the jobs to go through so they can hit their bonuses.Yet it's the techs Fault for everything that goes wrong.:nono2:


MY last day with an HSP sub I had eq & spares for the day. As I was leaving for job#1 an office wonk said I needed to give him all the H20s I had because they all had to go back to the HSP (MASTEC) office for inventory. I asked for spares......no can do. So he took the boxes and the last job of the day got bumped. I called them and said I didn't have equipment, reschedule plz.

This made sense to them. When I close my eyes all that is gone.

Joe


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

bbeeman said:


> If you count "no call, no show" it took six here to get a working install. From order to initial appointment was six and a half weeks (change old dish to 5 LNB unit, add HR-21-250). No call, no show. DirecTV CSR give me Ironwood dispatch number. Ironwood dispatch clueless.
> 
> Second appointment, another ten days. Again, no call, no show. Ironwood still clueless.
> 
> ...


So they tore up the lawn and you had them back again? :nono2:

I can't remember the last incompetent installer I had here in NJ. I include DirecTV, Dishnetwork and Cable. E* is about a 20 minute drive, the Cable company is about a 10 minute drive. Pretty big facility in Piscataway. Never thought to ask the D* guy. Which makes me wonder, I've never seen a female service person, do they exist? Can't be a lack of ability as when I drove for a living the women unloaded the truck faster the the all male crews.

Are there no alternatives in your area? Dishnetwork, Fios, Cable, Uverse. In my Area I can get service from DirecTV, Dishnetwork, Cable and Fios. I've been meaning to ask the next door neighbor how he likes Fios for TV and Internet. My Main interest at this time being High Speed internet. The Cable Internet is OK. But when I plug in the DSL there seems to be less latency. Big files are faster on Cable but web pages seem to pop up faster on DSL.


----------

