# Dish: "The meanest company in America"?



## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

I don't know how much merit there is in ranking companies based on the number of anonymous complaints on a website but I did find this article to be interesting. There are some pretty good comments from current and former employees here as well. Most of us have heard the horror stories about Charlie before but some of the people that work for him put a thought-provoking (at least for me) twist on his motives and the anecdotes about investor / analyst relationships are entertaining.

Personally I've been a customer for almost 14 years now and have experienced some pretty excellent customer service from them with few exceptions.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-02/dish-network-the-meanest-company-in-america#p1


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

A few months ago they were voted worst company in America to work for. Those of us in the industry have heard the stories for a long time and work with some former Dish folks. Interesting to say the least.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

Don't believe everything you read!



Satelliteracer said:


> A few months ago they were voted worst company in America to work for. Those of us in the industry have heard the stories for a long time and work with some former Dish folks. Interesting to say the least.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Don't believe everything you read!


*BELIEVE IT* from a long time former dealer.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Don't believe everything you read!


 I believe every bit of it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Satelliteracer said:


> A few months ago they were voted worst company in America to work for.


Actually this article is based on the same data as the September article. I suppose waiting three months and republishing old information makes it news?

Previous thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=208108
Previous article: http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/14/the-11-worst-companies-to-work-for-in-america/

Not exactly "voted" the worst company to work for ... just having the most complaints on a particular website.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Actually this article is based on the same data as the September article. I suppose waiting three months and republishing old information makes it news?
> 
> Previous thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=208108
> Previous article: http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/14/the-11-worst-companies-to-work-for-in-america/
> ...


 Still doesn't change the results.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Dish Network sub since 2001 and IMO Dish has been one of the best companies I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with. Never have I had an issue with them and the 2 times that I have had to have receivers replaced it was an easy process. When I moved they were prompt in getting me set up at my new address using dish mover. I enjoyed the 6 years I had distant networks and I took advantage of them by subing to NY/CHI/DEN/LA up until they were forced to take distants down and even then they found a solution by partnering with AAD. 

KUDOS to E* best TV provider out there.....


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

James Long said:


> Actually this article is based on the same data as the September article. I suppose waiting three months and republishing old information makes it news?
> 
> Previous thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=208108
> Previous article: http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/14/the-11-worst-companies-to-work-for-in-america/
> ...


I thought that the interviews with former employees and the comments from at least two verified former employees made it much more interesting than what was reported in those earlier articles.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Here I though my opinion of Charlie couldn't get any worse and it hits an all time low. Wow. Just a poor excuse for a human being.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Here I though my opinion of Charlie couldn't get any worse and it hits an all time low. Wow. Just a poor excuse for a human being.


nobody asked your opinion


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> A few months ago they were voted worst company in America to work for. Those of us in the industry have heard the stories for a long time and work with some former Dish folks. Interesting to say the least.


who cares!!!!
as far as i know they provide a better product
they are still better than directv


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

domingos35 said:


> who cares!!!!
> as far as i know they provide a better product
> they are still better than directv


Nobody asked your opinion either.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

What I find interesting is this same article and topic is posted on both the Dish and Direct subforums. The responses in each forum are very different.

Here in the Dish forum many people simply ignore what the article is saying and get defensive of any criticism, even if it can be proven to be true.

In the Direct forum, many interpret the negative statements made by "*former*" Dish employees as a generalization of how things are for everyone.

One's own bias is clear on how they interpret this article.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

I think the author had an agenda, and the article is heavily slanted towards stating that agenda. That said, I believe that Charlie's style of 'management' leaves much to be desired.


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

domingos35 said:


> who cares!!!!
> as far as i know they provide a better product
> they are still better than directv


Oh, I remember you. I thought (or perhaps hoped) you had just faded away. :lol:


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Don't believe everything you read!


I don't have to, I work with a number of former Dish employees whom I trust very much.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The problem here is... former employees are usually former employees for a reason. Either they left on their own OR were fired... Obviously fired people will have a negative opinion... and most people leaving voluntarily are doing so because of bad feelings.

So... it would be like doing a survey of patients in the emergency room and then extrapolating it to determine that ALL people are sick ALL the time.


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

I think their expense policy around tipping speaks for itself... if a person or company wants to short poorly paid waitstaff it's their prerogative. However I think it says a lot about the character (or lack thereof) of the individual or company.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Satelliteracer said:


> I don't have to, I work with a number of former Dish employees whom I trust very much.


And you plainly work for an opposing company.

I am not saying that you are biased. But if you were biased, would you not be biased toward the company providing a paycheck for you and your family?

Onward ... I hope that most employees have a better day than those who end up pissing and moaning on the Internet about their former employers. You won't find me badmouthing a former employer or a competitor on the internet. It isn't the way I roll. (BTW: I have not worked for a satellite provider.)

If I have to deal with a DISH employee I'll try to make their day better ... otherwise, lets watch TV.


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

bills976 said:


> I think their expense policy around tipping speaks for itself... if a person or company wants to short poorly paid waitstaff it's their prerogative. However I think it says a lot about the character (or lack thereof) of the individual or company.


I work for state government, and my employees are responsible for auditing employee travel expenses. I hear this argument once in a while. Our travel regulations clearly state that we will only reimburse up to 15% on meals. That being said, employees are free to leave tips bigger than 15% they just won't be reimbursed for it. I think if people are so concerned about the size of the tip on expensed meals they should not have a problem with it coming out of their own pocket.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

DEC said:


> Oh, I remember you. I thought (or perhaps hoped) you had just faded away. :lol:


the truth hurts buster


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Don't believe everything you read!


Does that include your posts? :sure:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

olds403 said:


> I work for state government, and my employees are responsible for auditing employee travel expenses.


Since you are spending my money (the taxpayer's money) I especially appreciate not spending more that what is reasonable and customary.

If a person wants to give a tip that is higher than reasonable and customary it should be on that person. The employee is spending the company's (or in your case, the public's) money. The same goes for the price of the meal or lodging or any other expense charged to the company.

People should be generous with their own money ... not others.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

I found the complaint about no paid holidays to be a very strange one. Television is not something that gets used only "during normal business hours." Usage would increase on holidays and weekends, making it a 24x7 industry. Medical institutions typically don't have paid holidays, either. It's part of the business to be available at all hours. No mention is made in the article as to whether they receive more than average vacation time to make up for the lack of paid holidays. So if they get 4 weeks of vacation at the start instead of 2, but no paid holidays, they really aren't worse off.

I found the section on requiring employees to be in on time a bit odd, but you can also see that by going to fingerprint scanning because people were cheating under the old system that the problems management are dealing with are real. If people had been honest, the old card system would still be in place. Probably most people were honest, but they don't put heavy locks and alarms on the doors of the jewelry store because most people are thieves...


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

No, I speak from the positive side... the Force by with me!



MysteryMan said:


> Does that include your posts? :sure:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> No, I speak from the positive side... the Force by with me!


 And from the side that gets paid! :lol:


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> The problem here is... former employees are usually former employees for a reason. Either they left on their own OR were fired... Obviously fired people will have a negative opinion... and most people leaving voluntarily are doing so because of bad feelings.
> 
> So... it would be like doing a survey of patients in the emergency room and then extrapolating it to determine that ALL people are sick ALL the time.


Maybe, but when one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight....patterns are hard to ignore.


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## rocat1997 (May 17, 2011)

I find dish to be exceptionally good. Never experienced a bad employee on the phone. Directs equipment sucks. I had them for years and their receiver had constant problems. Dish may not be perfect, but, they are close enough. As far as their employee's, that's not my concern. No job is great today but its a paying job. I am a customer and all that counts is how I am treated which has been stellar so far.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> So... it would be like doing a survey of patients in the emergency room and then extrapolating it to determine that ALL people are sick ALL the time.


Or asking people in jails about their experiences with the police and the courts.


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

domingos35 said:


> the truth hurts buster


Yeah, you're absolutely right, the truth can hurt ... and I do feel your pain bub. :lol:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

From the article (*emphasis* added):


> Although Dish had more than 100 people employed in its marketing department and reams of customer data to analyze, when it came time to figure out how much it was going to charge for satellite service, Ergen went into his office and came up with the final number alone. "It would be like the CEO of Kraft (KRFT) getting up in the morning and determining how much they were going to charge at retail for 12 slices of American cheese," says [Former President and CEO] Neuman. "It wasn't that he didn't invite input or share his thought process, because he did both. It's just that he'd had his hands on the wheel for so long that he trusted his own judgment the best."
> 
> _*What made it worse, Neuman says, is that Ergen was almost always right.*_ Eight months after accepting the job, Neuman resigned.


Basically, it's Charlie's company as founder and majority shareholder. When he's right he wins and when he's wrong he loses.

The man's known to be combative and aggressive with a strong "you can't do that to me" attitude. The question is: "How do you like your Hopper?" It could only come from a company aggressively willing take on the media industry. And that company is owned by Charlie. If you choose to go to work for Dish, that's who you're working for.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I choose to do business with those who are ethical and well run. Therefore, I choose not to do business with Dish Network.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> I choose to do business with those who are ethical and well run. Therefore, I choose not to do business with Dish Network.


The terms "ethical" and "well run" are subjective.

In the corporate world according to Wall Street "well run" means "makes money today" and nothing more.

In my world, I choose to do business with those who offer products I want based on quality, features, convenience, and price. I've used Echostar/Dish equipment since 1988 beginning with C-band.

I have no idea about the "ethics" of a major company because I don't have credible sources beyond my own experience. If I really were to focus deeply on morality, I'd "live off the grid", walk everywhere, eat vegan, not use any electronics of any kind, give most of my retirement income to the needy, and slowly go crazy.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm not sure if its different for salary folks, but I (and all the other hourly dish employees I know) get 7 paid holidays a year (new years, easter, fourth of july, labor day, thanksgiving, black friday, and christmas), and if I work on the holiday, I get the holiday pay plus my regular pay. So, not sure where the no paid holidays part comes from, unless its salary folks.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Satelliteracer said:


> Maybe, but when one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight....patterns are hard to ignore.


What pattern? That disgruntled ex-employees are disgruntled?

Again, not defending Dish... I don't know enough to do so... but seriously, what pattern emerges by only asking questions of a targeted group?

100% of women who divorced their husbands due to adultery think men are adulterers... Wow, what a great survey! 



Hoosier205 said:


> I choose to do business with those who are ethical and well run. Therefore, I choose not to do business with Dish Network.


Somehow I doubt you really know that much about all the businesses you engage with... otherwise, you probably would not be able to do much business.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> Somehow I doubt you really know that much about all the businesses you engage with... otherwise, you probably would not be able to do much business.


I know enough about Dish to not do business with them. Some people don't mind being associated with crooks, others do.


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## fourhokiefans (Jul 27, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> I know enough about Dish to not do business with them. Some people don't mind being associated with crooks, others do.


What a self righteous, indignant statement. Your post implies that those of us who do subscribe to Dish are making a choice to associate with crooks -which is nothing less than asinine. What I find interesting about this forum is that I expect my comment to be censored for criticizing your statement, while your post blatantly calling someone a crook without any basis will probably be allowed to remain. TROLL


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't read it as that. OTOH, you've become quite personal...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

"Hoosier205" said:


> I know enough about Dish to not do business with them. Some people don't mind being associated with crooks, others do.


Dish isn't a person I associate with. Neither is Walmart or Apple.

Sometimes high level employees of these companies do things I don't like, but I'm not going to choose not to order using my iPad something I need that is available through Walmart's web site at an incredibly low price. That doesn't mean I associate with anyone at either company.

Dish Network cannot be mean or a crook, only some of the people who work for it can be mean if they choose. I haven't met any mean Dish employees or crooks among them, but if I do I won't associate with them.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

puckwithahalo said:


> I'm not sure if its different for salary folks, but I (and all the other hourly dish employees I know) get 7 paid holidays a year (new years, easter, fourth of july, labor day, thanksgiving, black friday, and christmas), and if I work on the holiday, I get the holiday pay plus my regular pay. So, not sure where the no paid holidays part comes from, unless its salary folks.


Same here.
Im a former employee so most would think my opinion of Dish would be negative but fact of the matter is they paid well, offered a ton of P4P bonuses on every single pay check, extra money for upselling packages.

Getting paid 16$ an hour(accounting for p4p) not including over time(which was also multiplied by P4P separately which is awesome), in south texas when everyone else was either being paid 9$ an hour or was making comparable wages by working in a prison was quite nice.
Seriously, as a college student walking away with a 1000$ pay check, when all your friends are struggling to make 500$ at other jobs in that same period is quite nice.

Really the only thing that was weird was not qualifying for sick days until you have worked for Dish for 2 years. But even then they offer you a crap ton of PTO (paid time off), a lot of LEPC and a lot of UPTO that you really dont need the sick days.

Really the only bad thing about working there, are your retarded co-workers who seem to think there still in high school :lol:


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> I know enough about Dish to not do business with them. Some people don't mind being associated with crooks, others do.


I am curious as to what factual information this statement is based on. My experience with Dish has always been positive and pleasant, I can honestly say that I have received customer service equal to Dish from very few companies.

I had a friend who moved to an apartment AFTER signing a 2 year contract. There was no line of sight at the new apartment so service was unavailable. They originally wanted over $400 to let her out of the contract. After speaking to several service representatives, one representative suggested downgrading her service to the minimum level, which was $9.95/mo for the rest of the contract. which ended up costing less than $200. I thought that was a nice compromise on the part of Dish, since my friend was at fault for not verifying service availability at the new location before moving.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

phrelin said:


> Dish isn't a person I associate with. Neither is Walmart or Apple.


But Walmart is filthy through to the core, from the store level management up through the highest levels of the boardroom. One of those companies that's too dirty to get caught and prosecuted. Stories all over the world about corruption and mistreatment of workers.

They will never get a dime from me.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

I don't know how Walmart isn't on top of this list. My current gripe is and I realize January and February are the slow season they have cut our hours back. Highest we get is 38 a week but for most of the last 6 months we've got 36 now we're down we're down 34. Thats full time people part time is even worse. Coming from a company that makes what 27 billion in profit can't afford to pay us the same in the slow times even the amount of work doesn't change.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"olds403" said:


> I am curious as to what factual information this statement is based on. My experience with Dish has always been positive and pleasant, I can honestly say that I have received customer service equal to Dish from very few companies.
> 
> I had a friend who moved to an apartment AFTER signing a 2 year contract. There was no line of sight at the new apartment so service was unavailable. They originally wanted over $400 to let her out of the contract. After speaking to several service representatives, one representative suggested downgrading her service to the minimum level, which was $9.95/mo for the rest of the contract. which ended up costing less than $200. I thought that was a nice compromise on the part of Dish, since my friend was at fault for not verifying service availability at the new location before moving.


Factual information? Look no further than their lawsuits. Crooks, thieves, and liars.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Christopher Gould said:


> I don't know how Walmart isn't on top of this list. My current gripe is and I realize January and February are the slow season they have cut our hours back. Highest we get is 38 a week but for most of the last 6 months we've got 36 now we're down we're down 34. Thats full time people part time is even worse. Coming from a company that makes what 27 billion in profit can't afford to pay us the same in the slow times even the amount of work doesn't change.


They made only a paltry $15,000,000,000. It's customary to deduct taxes and interest....

If you're doing the same work in 34 hours that you used to get paid for 38 hours..... it's good to cut down padding.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Factual information? Look no further than their lawsuits. Crooks, thieves, and liars.


:lol: Its funny when its not me.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Laxguy said:


> They made only a paltry $15,000,000,000. It's customary to deduct taxes and interest....
> 
> If you're doing the same work in 34 hours that you used to get paid for 38 hours..... it's good to cut down padding.


Good for who ? Certainly not the workers, unless you're raising their hourly rate to compensate....


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

scooper said:


> Good for who ? Certainly not the workers, unless you're raising their hourly rate to compensate....


Welcome to the world of capitalism!!!!!

America should of woken up 30 years ago......now everyone pays!!

We also subsidize many Walmart workers because the pay is less than a living wage..

There called the working poor....

Food stamps, and Medicaid are just a few things workers qualify for, sad but true.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

"AZ." said:


> Welcome to the world of capitalism!!!!!
> 
> America should of woken up 30 years ago......now everyone pays!!
> 
> ...


Croney capitalism is not capitalism. Plus name a single better system. Even in our current system our working poor live in luxury compared to how most worldwide live.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

AZ. said:


> *There *called the working poor....


" They're "


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

We are basically not doing the same work. Customer service goes to the crapper long waits at check out and no one to cover other service areas. And everything else gets done half ass.


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

SayWhat? said:


> " They're "


hope you feel better?.....


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

DodgerKing said:


> Croney capitalism is not capitalism. Plus name a single better system. Even in our current system our working poor live in luxury compared to how most worldwide live.


A union work force!(white collar also).... Thats why the middle class is gone! hello...LOL


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

AZ. said:


> A union work force!(white collar also).... Thats why the middle class is gone! hello...LOL


Usually, you take your life into your hands these days if you dare bring up unions. I can't say I have been the biggest supporter of unions (as they often bring their own baggage into the equation), but, there is a reason why we have (or in some cases, had) so many benefits that folks have taken for granted or have historically forgotten where they came from, such as 5-day work weeks, sick time, vacation time, paid holidays, overtime pay, holiday pay, health insurance, etc., etc. Like them or hate them, the fact remains that if it wasn't for the union movement, a lot of that stuff simply would never have come into existence in this country. Unfortunately, it seems like a number of these benefits are being eroded, reduced, or outright taken away by a number of companies and employers these days.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

AZ. said:


> A union work force!(white collar also).... Thats why the middle class is gone! hello...LOL


I have no idea what you are talking about. Your reply has nothing to do with what I said.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Unions are also a big reason why so many companies buy their merchandise in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka instead of Memphis and Dayton.

Tying back into topic, does Dish use ANY off-shore call centers? I'm assuming the hardware is made off-shore like most electronics are.


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Unions are also a big reason why so many companies buy their merchandise in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka instead of Memphis and Dayton.


The union thing is admittedly off-topic, but there seems to be a number of off-topic posts in this thread. Beyond that, I have the feeling that the companies you reference would be going to Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China and elsewhere for raw materials, merchandise, manufacturing, labor ... you name it, not because of American unions or union workers (which are at there lowest ebb in decades), but because of bottom-line, bean-counting, cut-it-to-the-bone, multinational corporate thinking.



> Tying back into topic, does Dish use ANY off-shore call centers? I'm assuming the hardware is made off-shore like most electronics are.


That's a good question. I don't definitively know the answer, but I have to say that everyone I have called at Dish over the years (and even recently) strike me as being right here in the good old USA (and it's pretty evident when call centers are off-shore).


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## HinterXGames (Dec 20, 2012)

olds403 said:


> I am curious as to what factual information this statement is based on. My experience with Dish has always been positive and pleasant, I can honestly say that I have received customer service equal to Dish from very few companies.
> 
> I had a friend who moved to an apartment AFTER signing a 2 year contract. There was no line of sight at the new apartment so service was unavailable. They originally wanted over $400 to let her out of the contract. After speaking to several service representatives, one representative suggested downgrading her service to the minimum level, which was $9.95/mo for the rest of the contract. which ended up costing less than $200. I thought that was a nice compromise on the part of Dish, since my friend was at fault for not verifying service availability at the new location before moving.


:eek2::eek2::eek2: I didn't know DISH would still charge an ECF if there is NLOS. That seems odd. I could see it still being charged if their new landlord didn't permit Satellite, but not if it couldn't be installed due to NLOS.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

DEC said:


> The union thing is admittedly off-topic, but there seems to be a number of off-topic posts in this thread. Beyond that, I have the feeling that the companies you reference would be going to Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China and elsewhere for raw materials, merchandise, manufacturing, labor ... you name it, not because of American unions or union workers (which are at there lowest ebb in decades), _but because of bottom-line, bean-counting, cut-it-to-the-bone, multinational corporate thinking._


Comparative advantage. Companies go out of business if they ignore that principle long enough. Started with NYC moving manufacturing to NJ, then to The Carolinas, Kentucky, Ohio, etc, then Mexico and Asia. An oversimplification but illustrative.

And some unions are the reason some industries can't make it in the U.S.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Factual information? Look no further than their lawsuits. Crooks, thieves, and liars.


So... how do you even own a computer to post here? Aren't most computers, or at least some components of most computers, made in another country like China that would fit your bill of not being perfect? So... why are you doing business with them?

_edit:_ *I* am not characterizing China in a bad way... but the same logic-leap Hoosier uses to vilify Dish seems like he said he uses that same criteria to not do business with anyone else as well.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Guys ... while there have been some off topic posts in this thread, consider this your friendly moderator reminder that this is not a political forum. So please, keep the political comments out of your posts going forward.

Thank You.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> So... how do you even own a computer to post here? Aren't most computers, or at least some components of most computers, made in another country like China that would fit your bill of not being perfect? So... why are you doing business with them?
> 
> edit: *I* am not characterizing China in a bad way... but the same logic-leap Hoosier uses to vilify Dish seems like he said he uses that same criteria to not do business with anyone else as well.


Whatever you say Stew. The topic is Dish Network. They have an abysmal track record and a record of theft, deceit, and unethical behavior. We have two options in sat providers and it appears that one holds themselves to a higher standard than the other.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> " They're "


OH Stop! :icon_lame


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

damondlt said:


> OH Stop! :icon_lame


Should be "Oh, stop!"


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Whatever you say Stew. The topic is Dish Network. They have an abysmal track record and a record of theft, deceit, and unethical behavior. We have two options in sat providers and it appears that one holds themselves to a higher standard than the other.


Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now lets see if anyone who has not expressed a constant hate of DISH network for the past several years has anything else to add.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

"Hoosier205" said:


> Whatever you say Stew. The topic is Dish Network. They have an abysmal track record and a record of theft, deceit, and unethical behavior. We have two options in sat providers and it appears that one holds themselves to a higher standard than the other.


Wow we get it you hate Dish Network, now to our regular programming


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

SayWhat? said:


> Tying back into topic, does Dish use ANY off-shore call centers? I'm assuming the hardware is made off-shore like most electronics are.


If I remember correctly they have a few mega call centers off shore.
For sure 1 in Hyderabad, India, then I'm positive theres another one in Nuevo Leon , Mexico (but Im pretty sure the agents here only do spanish calls).

And lastly I know for sure theres one somewhere in the Phillipines but I dont recall what city it was, how ever at Dish they have a system called starbase that actually has a list of all call centers and images of what they look like and I gotta say the architecture for that call center is just amazing, thats really what stood out most for me while working there lol. Its a beautiful building. Some agents at this center do English calls mostly late at night or when the queue is over flowing, I believe they also handle transfers to certain departments.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Whatever you say Stew. The topic is Dish Network. They have an abysmal track record and a record of theft, deceit, and unethical behavior. We have two options in sat providers and it appears that one holds themselves to a higher standard than the other.


Just for fun...

*DirecTV thrives on 'deception,' lawsuit alleges
*
*DirecTV settles lawsuit with states*

*New Class Action Lawsuit Against DirecTV for Charging Credit Cards w/o Authorization*

I could probably find more.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> We have two options in sat providers and it appears that one holds themselves to a higher standard than the other.


Oh, I agree. That's why DirecTV has a D+ rating from the BBB and Dish has an A-.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Just for fun...
> 
> *DirecTV thrives on 'deception,' lawsuit alleges
> *
> ...


 You will find the exact same type with any company, But you won't find a Tivo,Rainbow Media lawsuit worth about 1 billion dollars.
Or Disney/ ABC dispute thats been going on for years now.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sregener said:


> Oh, I agree. That's why DirecTV has a D+ rating from the BBB and Dish has an A-.


You know whats Funny, If you looked at this 2 years ago Directv was an F and Dish was a *C*.

Not really sure what makes or changes the ratings.

I find it funny that Dish still has over 900 of unresolved cases and Directv doesn't have any.
Makes you wonder what these ratings mean?:eek2:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

damondlt said:


> You will find the exact same type with any company, But you won't find a Tivo,Rainbow Media lawsuit worth about 1 billion dollars.
> Or Disney/ ABC dispute thats been going on for years now.


Well... DirecTV agreed to pay licensing money to Tivo instead of fighting a lawsuit... so while I don't know what it cost them... and it wasn't a lawsuit... it sure wasn't free!

And DirecTV never carried the "Voom" channels... so there couldn't be a lawsuit with that company.

Dish doesn't have any other big payouts than those do they?

My point, though, was to show that as you say all companies have issues... so when someone declares they don't do business with "crooked" companies... and equated Dish = crooked... I felt it was only fair to note that he wasn't applying that same criteria to his provider.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Well... DirecTV agreed to pay licensing money to Tivo instead of fighting a lawsuit... so while I don't know what it cost them... and it wasn't a lawsuit... it sure wasn't free!
> 
> .


I don't remember any Tivo Dish equipment

But I do remember a TON of Tivo Directv equipment.

Here you go .
http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/02/dish-settles-tivo-suit/


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> You will find the exact same type with any company, But you won't find a Tivo,Rainbow Media lawsuit worth about 1 billion dollars. Or Disney/ ABC dispute thats been going on for years now.


You will find innovative receivers that someone else wanted to take credit for (and unfortunately were "close enough" in a friendly courts eyes to lose the suit). The Voom deal was an attempt to offer innovative programming that other providers did not have ... unfortunately Voom refused to produce enough new material to make their channels worthwhile. And the ABC/Disney problem was a case of DISH believing that they should be given the same deal as other competitors. (If SD includes HD on another carrier, why shouldn't it be that way for DISH?)

With DISH you won't find a company with a string of owners making their money then selling it off every few years. And you won't find a long string of CEOs that one cannot name without looking at a list.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> I don't remember any Tivo Dish equipment
> But I do remember a TON of Tivo Directv equipment.


Exactly ... DISH built their own equipment, DirecTV just went the licensing route.

DirecTV ended up paying Tivo a lot of money over the years to have a DVR. DISH settled the lawsuit with similar payments. The ruling only paid Tivo what DISH would have paid had they been licensing the technology all along. It was a wash.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> You will find innovative receivers that someone else wanted to take credit for (and unfortunately were "close enough" in a friendly courts eyes to lose the suit). The Voom deal was an attempt to offer innovative programming that other providers did not have ... unfortunately *Voom refused to produce enough new material to make their channels worthwhile.* And the ABC/Disney problem was a case of DISH believing that they should be given the same deal as other competitors. (If SD includes HD on another carrier, why shouldn't it be that way for DISH?)
> .


OK thats all hear say and apperently not the truth cause a lost lawsuit shows Dish was the guilty party not Rainbow media.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/amc-back-dish-lawsuit-settled-381472

And show me the ABC Disney Dispute that shows what everyone else is getting and paying.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Exactly ... DISH built their own equipment,
> .


 With Stolen Technology from Tivo. Which the lawsuit proved correct.:lol:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> DISH settled the lawsuit with similar payments. The ruling only paid Tivo what DISH would have paid had they been licensing the technology all along. It was a wash.


 Are you kidding me, LOL you really believe that.:hurah:

You forgot about the 8 years Directv profitted from Tivo.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

We hashed all of this out when the arguments were current ... please see previous threads.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> We hashed all of this out when the arguments were current ... please see previous threads.


Yea thats what I thought!:lol:

A wash, Priceless !


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"sregener" said:


> Oh, I agree. That's why DirecTV has a D+ rating from the BBB and Dish has an A-.


Sounds like you need to read up on the BBB. You have to pay for ratings. It's a sham.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Oh, man. Is it time to lock this thread yet?


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

RasputinAXP said:


> Oh, man. Is it time to lock this thread yet?


I know I'm sorry I started it now. I hoped it might spur some discussion on how management styles can be viewed differently by different types of employees, how some people praised Charlie even while they couldn't stand working for him, and the overall idea of publishing an article like this based strictly on a website where people only go to complain. The article really made me go back and think about the managers and executives I've worked for over the years and the impressions they made on me. Some who I couldn't stand at the time ended up being very good for me, others who I really liked at one point eventually revealed themselves to be something much less than I thought. And some of them taught me valuable lessons - often about how NOT to do something.

Sadly this just turned into a mess. I'm not sure why people have to make themselves feel better about the choice in TV they made by ripping on the other guys. I chose Dish but I don't think people that choose DTV or Cable are somehow less intelligent than me. Is it just me or has this forum gotten less friendly in the last 3 years?


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

bobukcat said:


> Is it just me or has this forum gotten less friendly in the last 3 years?


No, it's not just you as I have to say that I've noticed the same thing even though I don't have a huge post count (I often read more than responding or initiating threads/posts). I am a member of probably over 80 forums on a variety of subjects and I am more active on some than others, but I have noticed a trend of increased nastiness on a lot of them. That said, I also know of a couple of forums who have bucked the trend and have gotten more civil.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Mean and nasty? You want mean and nasty? Look at some of the forums catering to public safety and see how some of the people carrying guns and badges act when they think they're among their own.


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## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

sregener said:


> Oh, I agree. That's why DirecTV has a D+ rating from the BBB and Dish has an A-.


Ratings from the BBB are worthless. The BBB itself is also worthless. I'm not saying that DirecTV is better than Dish, but comparisons using the BBB aren't strong reasons one way or the other.


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## DEC (Jan 7, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Mean and nasty? You want mean and nasty? Look at some of the forums catering to public safety and see how some of the people carrying guns and badges act when they think they're among their own.


Take it easy. You can always find more outrageous examples of "mean and nasty" elsewhere (and I am on a few of those kinds of forums so I am well aware of what you are talking about). The only comment that was made concerning this forum was the possibility of it being "less friendly".


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

This is nothing compare to other forums I go to where you really see their true colors come out, I guess that's the way of life sometimes when there is competition and FANBOYS, shoot look at Apple or Samsung forums which goes back and forth rinse and repeat over processor chips comes from Samsung, and ofcourse those political forums which get rrrreeally nasty.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

acostapimps said:


> This is nothing compare to other forums I go to where you really see their true colors come out, I guess that's the way of life sometimes when there is competition and FANBOYS, shoot look at Apple or Samsung forums which goes back and forth rinse and repeat over processor chips comes from Samsung, and ofcourse those political forums which get rrrreeally nasty.


I didn't mean to imply that it had reached those levels. I avoid political forums like the plague and I do read a lot of tech forums but steer clear of the comments sections on most of them because of the rabid fanboism. I've been on DBSTalk for longer and more often than any other forum though, and I do think it's gotten slightly less civil. It was once nearly devoid of the kind of behaviors that make me avoid other sites.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I bailed off the AVS Forum long ago.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Satelliteracer said:


> A few months ago they were voted worst company in America to work for. Those of us in the industry have heard the stories for a long time and work with some former Dish folks. Interesting to say the least.


I've never had trouble with Dish whatsoever. I've been a customer since 1999.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Paul Secic" said:


> I've never had trouble with Dish whatsoever. I've been a customer since 1999.


To work for. It wasn't about customer satisfaction.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Hoosier205 said:


> To work for. It wasn't about customer satisfaction.


I worked for them for quite a while and had no issues


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

I still work for them. Worked for Direct twice (Pegasus then DirecTV O&O) too. No complaints either way. Better than getting shot at for a living.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> To work for. It wasn't about customer satisfaction.


There have been a lot of complaints in this thread that have had nothing to do with working there OR customer satisfaction. Some people just expressing their hatred.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"James Long" said:


> There have been a lot of complaints in this thread that have had nothing to do with working there OR customer satisfaction. Some people just expressing their hatred.


In your opinion perhaps, but you have an inherent bias when it comes to this topic.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Hoosier205 said:


> In your opinion perhaps, but *you have an inherent bias* when it comes to this topic.


lol oh gosh.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> In your opinion perhaps, but you have an inherent bias when it comes to this topic.


Hello pot meet kettle!


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

damondlt said:


> With Stolen Technology from Tivo. Which the lawsuit proved correct.:lol:


If you really want to get into an ethical discussion, I suggest doing some reading at the Free Software Foundation, or the Electronic Freedom Foundation. Software patents are patently ridiculous. There are many people who believe that it is a moral requirement to violate as many software patents as possible, to bring the system crashing down on itself.

Dish tried to create their own DVR software that they thought would be different enough to pass muster. The courts disagreed, but that's why they have courts to begin with. There is no evidence that Dish took Tivo code and used it without permission.

I'm not going to argue that Dish is an ethical corporation. There is no such thing. Corporations are not people, no matter what the Supreme Court says. People do unethical things all the time, and some of them do them while running a business or working for a business. I have no reason to believe that the people who run or work at Dish are any more unethical than those who work at DirecTV or the local cable company.

But all this runs far afield from the discussion of whether Dish is a good place to work or not. I am grateful to live in a country where people get to choose who they work for, and negotiate their compensation accordingly. When Dish can no longer get employees to perform the necessary tasks of running the company, their particular business model will be found wanting by the court of public opinion and thus die off. Until that happens, the opinions of people who used to work there count for little.


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