# Way to go DirecTV



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1

Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2

Sending me one 2 years older than the one I had: -10


Morons.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

There's no guarantee of what you'll get as a replacement. You basically get the next box off the top of the stack.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Does not change my attitude about receiving a flammable box 2 years older than my other flammable box


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Does it work?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> Yes, I'm well aware of that. Does not change my attitude about receiving a flammable box 2 years older than my other flammable box


There's also no guarantee that the box you just received is flammable either.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"RunnerFL" said:


> There's also no guarantee that the box you just received is flammable either.


Only here, can the "re-selling" of the same crappy DVR over and over and over be justified.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

Yep


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

raott said:


> Only here, can the "re-selling" of the same crappy DVR over and over and over be justified.


Could have gotten an older *model*. 

Unfortunately the lack of competition and/or de facto collusion is what enables this crap. My parents have the same problem with their cable boxes.

A company interested in keeping customers would guarantee replacement with a newer unit (same or different model). Especially since many people have to *pay* for these damn things to begin with.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

Get it activated and see if it works. Then let us know if it is having problems or you just don't like the assembling date.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

At least with cable, you have an option to buy your own equipment, and upgrade it as your budget permits.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

raott said:


> Only here, can the "re-selling" of the same crappy DVR over and over and over be justified.


Actually, it would be justified anywhere people understand business.

I guess if you were running things you'd just throw out all the boxes when customers returned them, eh?

I have a feeling you'll be working for the man forever.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"spartanstew" said:


> Actually, it would be justified anywhere people understand business.
> 
> I guess if you were running things you'd just throw out all the boxes when customers returned them, eh?
> 
> I have a feeling you'll be working for the man forever.


I don't work for the man so zip it.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Just for kicks, check an Apple board some time, you'll see customers who have purchased and then returned 3,4, half a dozen monitors or laptops for some flaw. Same thing with TVs; I read a post from a guy who had returned 3 Mitsubishi 75" TVs.

I used to own a small business although it was pretty big to me, had over 30 employees and thousands of customers. Some came in the door, many more on the phone. I spent well over half my time with fewer than 1% of customers and I figured out that it is impossible to please some people.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I guess if you were running things you'd just throw out all the boxes when customers returned them, eh?


I would if their cost/life cycle had been exhausted. Even for something as intangible as customer satisfaction, I do not see where it serves DirecTv to piss off customers by sending out old slow boxes with new hard drives, as a replacement, when those boxes have probably been paid for three times over by now.

If they just HAVE to reuse them well past their life cycle, they should send them out to new customers for their "FREE" installs. If the new customers want new equipment, then let them pay the same up front fee the rest of pay.

Anything wrong with that business model? My employer remanufactures coffee equipment for resale. I know for a fact we wont even bother with older appliances, because no one wants old stuff, even if its in brand new condition. I cant see DirecTv's customers being any different.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> At least with cable, you have an option to buy your own equipment, and upgrade it as your budget permits.


You can purchase the equipment from Directv and own it, just be ready to pay list price and not leasing prices. Directv also has retailers such as Solid Signal or Weaknees where you can pick the model you would prefer.

If a receiver has already been refurbished, it would be irresponsible not to put it back in the field just because there is a newer model. Directv will eventually exhaust all older models of refurbished receivers. They have already stopped accepting non SWM compatible receivers back and some models that are SWM compatible.

Years from now someone will start the same thread complaining that they got another HR24 and it's too out-of-date compared to the new equipment of the time.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"JeffBowser" said:


> Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1
> 
> Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2
> 
> ...


If you want a specific model, go get one. Don't blame them for replacing a faulty DVR with a working one. What do you expect to do with all of those receivers? Throw all but the 24's and above in the dumpster while eating the cost?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

goinsleeper said:


> You can purchase the equipment from Directv and own it, just be ready to pay list price and not leasing prices. .


Well, I was told I could NOT purchase an HR34 from them when I got mine (from an online retailer). I was also told by several people on here (which I cannot verify the facts of) that even if your order a HDDVR from Directv for purchase through the access card department, they still will not guarantee which model of HDDVR you will get, or that it will be new in the box. Perhaps they have changed that, or it was not true to begin with...I ended up buying from an employee, and leasing the HR34 as they would not sell me one.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> Well, I was told I could NOT purchase an HR34 from them when I got mine (from an online retailer). I was also told by several people on here (which I cannot verify the facts of) that even if your order a HDDVR from Directv for purchase through the access card department, they still will not guarantee which model of HDDVR you will get, or that it will be new in the box. Perhaps they have changed that, or it was not true to begin with...I ended up buying from an employee, and leasing the HR34 as they would not sell me one.


The HR34 is the only receiver they do not currently sell, probably based on the price it would be. Around 6-8 months ago (the last time I checked), you could still purchase any other receiver and when you did, it was new in the box. I received that information from several call center reps, so I'm sure it should be taken with more than one grain of salt, but all of their answers were the same. The price is $499 for an HD DVR which would be the HR24-XXX.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

When I got my first R15-300 it was brand new in a fancy box. I loved it. In fact, I loved it so much I got a second one only a few months later. The second one was a "reconditioned" R15-300 that was TWO YEARS OLDER than my nice new one. I was disappointed.

Guess which one has consistently worked better and still does? You guessed it, the "reconditioned" one that was built in 2005!!

I'm not disappointed anymore...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> When I got my first R15-300 it was brand new in a fancy box. I loved it. In fact, I loved it so much I got a second one only a few months later. The second one was a "reconditioned" R15-300 that was TWO YEARS OLDER than my nice new one. I was disappointed.
> 
> Guess which one has consistently worked better and still does? You guessed it, the "reconditioned" one that was built in 2005!!
> 
> I'm not disappointed anymore...


Stuff like that happens more than people care to admit. I have no problem buying refurbished equipment. When an item is refurbished it is treated better, and tested more, than it was when it was "factory fresh".


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

raott said:


> Only here, can the "re-selling" of the same crappy DVR over and over and over be justified.


DIRECTV is not reselling, they are replacing leased equipment with leased equipment.

Cable companies have been doing this for nearly 30 years. Before you were allowed to buy your own equipment. (Which was an FCC regulation, by the way.)

Peace,
Tom


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

You folks are funny with your assumptions and unfounded judgments.

I left the crap on my bed, and I and the family went out and had a nice dinner and Christmas parade downtown. I'll deal with the ancient, poorly designed garbage equipment tomorrow and let you know how it goes.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Tom Robertson said:


> DIRECTV is not reselling, they are replacing leased equipment with leased equipment.
> 
> Cable companies have been doing this for nearly 30 years. Before you were allowed to buy your own equipment. (Which was an FCC regulation, by the way.)
> 
> ...


Yes Tom, but how many times do they lease the same receiver/dvr?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> You folks are funny with your assumptions and unfounded judgments.
> 
> I left the crap on my bed, and I and the family went out and had a nice dinner and Christmas parade downtown. I'll deal with the ancient, poorly designed garbage equipment tomorrow and let you know how it goes.


What make/model is it? If you didn't say it was a DVR, I'd almost think you were saying they sent you an H20-600.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

studechip said:


> Yes Tom, but how many times do they lease the same receiver/dvr?


Many. Likely many, many. You use it, you switch to directv, you returned it, they lease it so someone else, rinse and repeat until they switch to a new technology. I've seen some pretty beat up cable boxes.

Peace,
Tom


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

JeffBowser said:


> You folks are funny with your assumptions and unfounded judgments.
> 
> I left the crap on my bed, and I and the family went out and had a nice dinner and Christmas parade downtown. I'll deal with the ancient, poorly designed garbage equipment tomorrow and let you know how it goes.


What?!?! You mean you have a life away from the tv? lol


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

JeffBowser said:


> Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1
> 
> Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2
> 
> ...


I haven't watched much "news" since Nov 2.

I caught a story on Fox a few days ago about a strike ending. Between pressing list. Something about workers down on the dock by the bay in kalipornia. They unload ships. The last time they struck was around two years ago, set commerce on its ass.

For the last few weeks everthing on my truck has been refurbed including LNB's. Life has been hell.

You want to give a "shout out" paint a good sight picture. Use a Sig.

JMHO dont get excited.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

JeffBowser said:


> Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1
> 
> Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2
> 
> ...


Can I offer you a "leased" crying towel? It may not be new but still functions as it was designed to do. :sure:


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Does anyone on here know what testing is done to a receiver when it is returned to them because it is defective ?
Surely they test to see if the fan is working properly so it does not overheat. ?
Surely they run a diagnostic on the hard drive to see if it is failing ?
I would think those 2 things are the big majority of the problems with the DVRs failing and if those are replaced the item is possibly as good as new.

We have a Velodyne 12" Subwoofer that we got on sale for $1,825.00 several years ago. It had to be taken back to the store twice for repairs under warranty. Right after the warranty ran out it died again. I contacted Velodyne directly this time instead of taking it back to the store. The man had a record of it since they had to reimburse the store for the previous repairs. He had me ship it to them. When I got it back there was a note in there about one of the items in the unit that was notorious for failing and that they had replaced that with an improved version.
That was 7 years ago. Some refurbs are better than the new units.

Having said all that, I still believe that DTV would be better off getting rid of the old boxes as they fail and sending out new ones / new models. Eventually all the old ones would be out of use. Repairs would probably go down reducing cost and the programming could target fewer models and might be more accurate.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> There's no guarantee of what you'll get as a replacement. You basically get the next box off the top of the stack.


That is why Rich and Richierich buy Owned HR24s from Ebay so we can Replace the Internal Hard Drive with a 2 TB Drive and be done with it.

I will not have those other DVRs in my house period.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> You folks are funny with your assumptions and unfounded judgments.


You mean like you assuming this one will be junk and catch fire?


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

:lol: Yes, exactly!

It works for now. I'll see how long it holds up. Random equipment off the shelf was expected. What was not expected was one quite this old. If it's been run most of that time, I would expect that I'm going to be calling them again soon for something fried or non-functional.



RunnerFL said:


> You mean like you assuming this one will be junk and catch fire?


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

That's why you say whatever you need to say to get them to send a tech. When the tech calls, you verify that they have current model equipment on their truck.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> :lol: Yes, exactly!
> 
> It works for now. I'll see how long it holds up. Random equipment off the shelf was expected. What was not expected was one quite this old. If it's been run most of that time, I would expect that I'm going to be calling them again soon for something fried or non-functional.


All you know for sure is how old the case/frame is. You don't know if a new motherboard, or any other part, has been put in since the manufacture date on the case.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

SPACEMAKER said:


> That's why you say whatever you need to say to get them to send a tech. When the tech calls, you verify that they have current model equipment on their truck.


"Current model" doesn't mean "new receiver." HR24s, H24s and H25s are refurbished, too.

Just sayin'.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> "Current model" doesn't mean "new receiver." HR24s, H24s and H25s are refurbished, too.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Not to mention anything from an HR21 on up is considered a "current model".


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

raott said:


> Only here, can the "re-selling" of the same crappy DVR over and over and over be justified.


+1


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"JeffBowser" said:


> :lol: Yes, exactly!
> 
> It works for now. I'll see how long it holds up. Random equipment off the shelf was expected. What was not expected was one quite this old. If it's been run most of that time, I would expect that I'm going to be calling them again soon for something fried or non-functional.


Who cares? It won't cost you a dime for them to replace it if need be. If it works, that's all that matters.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> Who cares? It won't cost you a dime for them to replace it if need be. If it works, that's all that matters.


You're unbelievable. Can't even give him an inch, given his last one could have burned his house down? It "work"ed for a while, but then scorched!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hancox said:


> You're unbelievable. Can't even give him an inch, given his last one could have burned his house down? It "work"ed for a while, but then scorched!


1. That wouldn't have ignited into something that would have burned down a house.
2. Are we now supposed to assume that every HR is going to go up in smoke based on 1?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"hancox" said:


> You're unbelievable. Can't even give him an inch, given his last one could have burned his house down? It "work"ed for a while, but then scorched!


Can you provide evidence of a single HR bursting into flames? Ever?


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## pbg (Oct 11, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> There's no guarantee of what you'll get as a replacement. You basically get the next box off the top of the stack.


you hear this a lot - I think it's more of an excuse than a reason. I understand the need to re-lease stuff, It makes total sense - The equipment is typically in fine shape. I'd also imagine at least 95% of DirecTV's customer base doesn't care, or thinks about what hardware they receive - so in most cases its non factor. We here on the board are the exception.

You also hear, ' Why doesn't DirecTV treat their existing customers the same way the do a new customer'?" in regards to sending the latest equipment for replacements.

With this in mind, I think DirecTV could make it an option, but if one chooses to replace existing equipment with something other than 'the next one off the stack' it would require the signing of an additional 2 year agreement -Just like a new customer would. That to me seems fair.


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## Barcthespark (Dec 16, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> Who cares? It won't cost you a dime for them to replace it if need be. If it works, that's all that matters.


Who cares?
The customer who has to deal with the problem.
The customer who has downtime due to a bad unit.
The customer who has to spend time working with the call center to get a replacement.
The person who has to ship the bad unit back.

It doesn't cost a dime?
What about having to pay for shipping?

:nono2:


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Barcthespark" said:


> Who cares?
> The customer who has to deal with the problem.
> The customer who has downtime due to a bad unit.
> The customer who has to spend time working with the call center to get a replacement.
> ...


Awww...it really is tough I suppose. I mean, having to call and let them know you need a replacement. Having to open an entire box. The horror of putting the faulty one in a box AND closing it! The hardest part is scheduling a pick up from your very own front door. I mean, that is just brutal. If only they offered a protection plan so you would not have to pay for shipping...

All equipment fails eventually. They offer the easiest possible way of dealing with it. You call and they send you a replacement. That just isn't good enough for some. No, some expect DirecTV to dispose of a receiver after each use.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

No matter what, replacing a dead unit is a pain. There are all the recordings lost and the recording to reset. Major unfortunate. 

So if the replacing unit has a short life left, that means another replacement too soon.

When DIRECTV makes it easy to copy at least the settings from one unit to another (a presumption that they will do that someday), that will at least simplify that part of the problem. Until then, I understand some of JeffBowswers concern.

That said my original HR20-700 is still running strong. No problems.

Peace,
Tom


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

This thread is getting a tad "incendiary", I regret starting it, actually.

The "who cares" comments earlier have some validity, but, the downtime, and the PITA it is to get behind my AV cabinet, etc... make it all a situation I'd rather not do often. We'll see. if it lasts 3 years like the last one, all is well. Maybe by then they'll design something with sufficient horsepower to be worth buying outright.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Tom Robertson" said:


> No matter what, replacing a dead unit is a pain. There are all the recordings lost and the recording to reset. Major unfortunate.
> 
> So if the replacing unit has a short life left, that means another replacement too soon.
> 
> ...


Losing recordings? If the content is that important, then you will find a way to get a copy you can keep in some format.

Using returbs as replacements is the only acceptable method. It is the reality that people need to accept. Every single provider does it and will continue to. There is no way around it. These units are not disposable after one use. These folks are not being realistic and expect DirecTV to do business in a way that isn't even logical.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"JeffBowser" said:


> This thread is getting a tad "incendiary", I regret starting it, actually.
> 
> The "who cares" comments earlier have some validity, but, the downtime, and the PITA it is to get behind my AV cabinet, etc... make it all a situation I'd rather not do often. We'll see. if it lasts 3 years like the last one, all is well. Maybe by then they'll design something with sufficient horsepower to be worth buying outright.


The very first post was incendiary.



"JeffBowser" said:


> Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1
> 
> Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2
> 
> ...


Now you say:



"JeffBowser" said:


> We'll see. if it lasts 3 years like the last one, all is well.


...which is it? Will you be happy if it works for three or more years? Or will you be unhappy if the same model works while being the same model and older that the previous unit? Will you still call them morons or might that change as well?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Losing recordings? If the content is that important, then you will find a way to get a copy you can keep in some format.
> 
> Using returbs as replacements is the only acceptable method. It is the reality that people need to accept. Every single provider does it and will continue to. There is no way around it. These units are not disposable after one use. These folks are not being realistic and expect DirecTV to do business in a way that isn't even logical.


There is a large gap between content is so important that I'll acquire a copy, sometimes difficult to do, and content I don't care about at all. (If I didn't care about it at all, I probably wouldn't record it in the first place...)

So anytime I lose a chunk of the library I've recorded for the convenience of easy playback, it is a pain.

Jeff has another excellent point; getting behind to replace the equipment. Mrs. Tibber is extremely patient, I forget how much so. Most families don't want a cabinet as open as mine is so I can replace more easily.

Now, I am not saying DIRECTV has another choice economically. (I suppose they could create a protection plan elite that would always replace old with new--at a higher price...)

I _am _acknowledging the pain of replacements. Not fun. Less often is better. 

Peace,
Tom


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> I _am _acknowledging the pain of replacements.


I fail to see the point unless there is a legitimate alternative available. I suppose we could all buy our receivers at full retail price and then pay just as much for each replacement. Sure, that sounds better!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> The very first post was incendiary.
> 
> Now you say:
> 
> ...which is it? Will you be happy if it works for three or more years? Or will you be unhappy if the same model works while being the same model and older that the previous unit? Will you still call them morons or might that change as well?


The first post is venting. Everyone is allowed to do that once in awhile.

Jeff has been very polite in the subsequent posts (good job!) as posts more incendiary have flown by. At this point, it might be wise to let the whole matter drop or at least be supportive of one of our members.

Peace,
Tom


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> The first post is venting. Everyone is allowed to do that once in awhile.
> 
> Jeff has been very polite in the subsequent posts (good job!) as posts more incendiary have flown by. At this point, it might be wise to let the whole matter drop or at least be supportive of one of our members.
> 
> ...


He called them morons for sending him a working replacement receiver. Be supportive of what?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> I fail to see the point unless there is a legitimate alternative available. I suppose we could all buy our receivers at full retail price and then pay just as much for each replacement. Sure, that sounds better!


Perhaps you never feel pain. Or don't need it acknowledged. Or never need to vent. Nothing wrong with that; though it is through pain many innovations and changes are made.

But at least please let others go through their pain process, which includes venting. By DIRECTV being aware of our pain they will find solutions.

Perhaps it will come in the form of more advanced diagnostics when they re-ship used equipment. Perhaps in features for copying settings from one to the next. Who knows? 

Peace,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> He called them morons for sending him a working replacement receiver. Be supportive of what?


Of his pain. He doesn't like the situation. He doesn't need to like the situation. Yet he is being polite to thems who aren't supporting him here.

Peace,
Tom


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Tom Robertson said:


> Many. Likely many, many. You use it, you switch to directv, you returned it, they lease it so someone else, rinse and repeat until they switch to a new technology. I've seen some pretty beat up cable boxes.
> 
> Peace,
> Tom


And at what point do they stop charging for leasing the same box that has been returned? Never! Why not only charge a lease fee on new equipment or at the very least a reduced fee for used? After all, they have likely already made their money back on it and then some.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> And at what point do they stop charging for leasing the same box that has been returned? Never! Why not only charge a lease fee on new equipment or at the very least a reduced fee for used? After all, they have likely already made their money back on it and then some.


DirecTV is in business to make money, not give things away, and this is one way they make money. If they don't make money they don't stay in business. Don't begrudge them for trying to make money. If you don't like how they make their money there are other companies, who make money, that would like your money.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

studechip said:


> And at what point do they stop charging for leasing the same box that has been returned? Never! Why not only charge a lease fee on new equipment or at the very least a reduced fee for used? After all, they have likely already made their money back on it and then some.


Ah, if the problem is what they call the fee, I think that is changing. It is now an outlet fee; not a lease fee. It had been very bad terminology because it really wasn't a lease fee. It is a fee for each activated unit to cover programming fees.

Peace,
Tom


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

One of the reasons I buy Owned HR24s on Ebay is so I can have them Replaced with HR24s if they fail because I have the Protection Plan which ensures that Directv will Replace my HR24 with another HR24 and not an HR20 or whatever.

And I can Replace the Internal Hard Drive with a 2 TB Drive (I don't like using External Drives as they can cause problems). Can't beat it with a stick in my opinion.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> At least with cable, you have an option to buy your own equipment, and upgrade it as your budget permits.


in canada and it's no just cable.

and when you own it no outlet* / or mirroring* fees.

*on some systems there is a small fee for more then 3-4+ boxes.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> Losing recordings? If the content is that important, then you will find a way to get a copy you can keep in some format.
> 
> Using returbs as replacements is the only acceptable method. It is the reality that people need to accept. Every single provider does it and will continue to. There is no way around it. These units are not disposable after one use. These folks are not being realistic and* expect DirecTV to do business in a way that isn't even logical.*


What's not logical is DirecTV's assumption that all HR2x units are functionally equivalent. Perhaps a customer should have several replacement options -- no charge and no contract extension for replacement with any unit, refurbed or not, a contract extension for a new unit of DirecTV's choice, a contract extension plus an additional charge for a customer-specified unit.

As to losing recordings it's not that the content is THAT important. It's just that you'd like to see the shows recorded in the last few days before the unit stopped working.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Actually, it would be justified anywhere people understand business.
> 
> I guess if you were running things you'd just throw out all the boxes when customers returned them, eh?
> 
> I have a feeling you'll be working for the man forever.


That comment is a can of worms. "Business" spans the spectrum from pond scum to all-around great company. As a general rule, the larger, the lower. Somewhat driven by the too big to care/fail mentality.

The crux of the flaw in your way of thinking has to do with most people having paid for the box that has to be replaced. You pay for a box. You don't own it - just pay for the privilege of leasing it (or if you must, effectively prepaying the lease). The lease is entirely open-ended at DTV discretion. If your box dies DTV will replace it. With functionally *similar* device. However, similar doesn't necessarily mean equivalent. For example, the replacement may be a lot slower than what you originally had.

What happens in the transition from one model to another? I don't recall the details but I'm pretty sure when the HR24 became available that older models were still available and they cost *less*. In other words, to get the HR24 and it's associated speed improvements, the customer paid more.

How is it right that a company implicitly acknowledges that one product is inferior to another yet sees nothing wrong with replacing the better product with the lesser product?

It's just brain dead. Business or otherwise.

Better businesses make plenty of money by doing things fairly.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> I fail to see the point unless there is a legitimate alternative available. I suppose we could all buy our receivers at full retail price and then pay just as much for each replacement. Sure, that sounds better!


How about a radical thought? Buy the receiver and if it dies have an affordable mechanism to get it *REPAIRED*. Or extend their protection plans to cover (one level could be replacement with same model, another level with replacement with current best model, etc).

The next time I get an iPhone I'm seriously thinking about paying more for an unlocked one and then getting service outside of the "big" companies. My current contract expired awhile back and I just switched to Airvoice pay-as-you-go (guess what - service is still on AT&T GSM network!). I'm almost in shock how less expensive it is for _my usage pattern_ (light). I'm thinking I'd be FAR ahead to not let AT&T/Verizon/Sprint subsidize the phone and then stick it to me forever.

These companies all need to rid themselves of these smoke-n-mirrors games to scam people. Just put out an honest product at an honest price.

It's getting the point where none of these "services" want to be honest about anything. Internet is another - it's almost a trade secret what the REAL rates are after the promotional period is over.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

unixguru said:


> How about a radical thought? Buy the receiver and if it dies have an affordable mechanism to get it *REPAIRED*.


And be without TV for how long while you wait for your unit to be repaired? What happens if it can't be repaired?

The system they have in place has you back up watching TV within 48 hours, that's pretty good I'd say.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

unixguru said:


> That comment is a can of worms. "Business" spans the spectrum from pond scum to all-around great company. As a general rule, the larger, the lower. Somewhat driven by the too big to care/fail mentality.
> 
> The crux of the flaw in your way of thinking has to do with most people having paid for the box that has to be replaced. You pay for a box. You don't own it - just pay for the privilege of leasing it (or if you must, effectively prepaying the lease). The lease is entirely open-ended at DTV discretion. If your box dies DTV will replace it. With functionally *similar* device. However, similar doesn't necessarily mean equivalent. For example, the replacement may be a lot slower than what you originally had.
> 
> ...


If it weren't fair, they wouldn't keep adding subscribers and having the lowest churn. Granted, there's other things involved in the equation, but contrary to what you and others would like to think, it is a smart business move. They continue to make money on the same boxes over and over and customer numbers continue to grow. That's business 101.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> When DIRECTV makes it easy to copy at least the settings from one unit to another (a presumption that they will do that someday), that will at least simplify that part of the problem. Until then, I understand some of JeffBowswers concern.
> 
> Tom


While copying recordings from one DVR to another is probably a copyright issue and out of DirecTV's hands, it WOULD indeed be nice if the FAVORITES lists and other settings could somehow be backed up via a FLASH drive or some other method.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

unixguru said:


> How about a radical thought? Buy the receiver and if it dies have an affordable mechanism to get it *REPAIRED*. Or extend their protection plans to cover (one level could be replacement with same model, another level with replacement with current best model, etc).


That's a GREAT idea! Wait. That's how it was prior to 2006 when the "leasing" program and 2 year commitments began. D-ohhh!!! :nono2:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> While copying recordings from one DVR to another is probably a copyright issue and out of DirecTV's hands, it WOULD indeed be nice if the FAVORITES lists and other settings could somehow be backed up via a FLASH drive or some other method.


I doubt copyright is involved, or wouldn't be if D* would have the external drive support be by account and not tied to the receiver and made it an archive device instead of replacing the internal.

Dish has been doing it for year and it works quite well. And Dish, on at least some units has the ability to save your schedules and such in the remote so you can 'restore' them to a replacement DVR.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I have a HR22 refurbished for 4 years and still works like it's new


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> And be without TV for how long while you wait for your unit to be repaired? What happens if it can't be repaired?
> 
> The system they have in place has you back up watching TV within 48 hours, that's pretty good I'd say.


Usually it is either the Power Supply or the Hard Drive going bad and that is easy to fix if Directv would sell you the Power Supply.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Tom Robertson said:


> Ah, if the problem is what they call the fee, I think that is changing. It is now an outlet fee; not a lease fee. It had been very bad terminology because it really wasn't a lease fee. It is a fee for each activated unit to cover programming fees.
> 
> Peace,
> Tom


It's the up front leasing fee I'm talking about, not the monthly fee.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

unixguru said:


> I don't recall the details but I'm pretty sure when the HR24 became available that older models were still available and they cost *less*. In other words, to get the HR24 and it's associated speed improvements, the customer paid more.


I paid $300 for an Owned HR24-500 when they first came out just to get the Faster Performance rather than get an HR21 or whatever DVR they would give me which would be SLOW!!!

I didn't regret it or the other 3 HR24s I bought since then but not everyone can or would choose to do so because of the expense.

I have the Protection Plan so if one of those DVRs fail I can get another HR24-500 as a Replacement and Not an HR21 or HR20 or HR23.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> It's the up front leasing fee I'm talking about, not the monthly fee.


You only pay that fee when you initially get the unit, not every time you have a unit replaced.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Richierich said:


> Usually it is either the Power Supply or the Hard Drive going bad and that is easy to fix if Directv would sell you the Power Supply.


Easy for you, me and most everyone else here, yes. But not easy for 99% of their customers.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Easy for you, me and most everyone else here, yes. But not easy for 99% of their customers.


But they could take it to a PC Repair Store and get it done within a week and it wouldn't cost that much if you could get the Power Supply which Directv doesn't make available.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Richierich said:


> But they could take it to a PC Repair Store and get it done within a week and it wouldn't cost that much if you could get the Power Supply which Directv doesn't make available.


Within a week? :lol: People already complain about a 48 hour turn around. Can you imagine the flack they'd get if DirecTV told people "repairs are up to you" and then on top of that the customer finds out it could take a week? They'd lose customers so fast it wouldn't be funny.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Jeepers, you're a tough one.

I was, and remain, irritated I am forced to replace a faulty DVR with a much older assembly. Perhaps it's been refurbished perhaps not, I have no way of knowing. As I said before, I was simply surprised to see one come in stamped 2 years older than one I already considered old.

Secondly, I am perfectly capable of simultaneously being irritated at the situation while also recognizing that if it is indeed refurbished, and/or I get a long life out of it, it doesn't really matter.

Yes, my first post was incendiary, I regret starting the thread. If one starts a fire, though, throwing gas on it afterwards isn't always the best idea.

Others here in the past have had an excellent suggestion for DirecTV - allowing existing subs to buy/rent/specify a new replacement on some sort of perhaps limited basis. Personally, if I had any faith that a fast DVR existed, I'd just go visit Solid Signal, but I'm still waiting for one to definitively and unequivocally rise up.

Tom, thanks for your patience and level responses.



Hoosier205 said:


> The very first post was incendiary.
> 
> Now you say:
> 
> ...which is it? Will you be happy if it works for three or more years? Or will you be unhappy if the same model works while being the same model and older that the previous unit? Will you still call them morons or might that change as well?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> No matter what, replacing a dead unit is a pain. There are all the recordings lost and the recording to reset. Major unfortunate.
> 
> So if the replacing unit has a short life left, that means another replacement too soon.
> 
> ...


Yes, Thank you! Its a pain , it takes time out of your day , most people have to work the Hours Directv can stop by, and if the receiver is mailed, then you find out the hard way that you once had the HR22,or 23 and now your stuck with a HR21 that has a smaller hard drive. I've seen this happend to quite a few of my friends, including myself.

I fully understand the OP's frustration.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> If it weren't fair, they wouldn't keep adding subscribers and having the lowest churn. Granted, there's other things involved in the equation, but contrary to what you and others would like to think, it is a smart business move. They continue to make money on the same boxes over and over and customer numbers continue to grow. That's business 101.


Monopolies are a wonderful thing. If you're the business. Sure, they aren't a monopoly in the strict sense but they and the very few other options are effectively a monopoly.

Being the least objectionable out of a weak pool doesn't have anything to do with being fair.

Once a real alternative appears these businesses pay the price for their past behavior. One example: Microsoft. Once the cash cow and all the business-types saying the same thing you just said. Now they can't even generate more revenue than the iPhone.

Business 101 isn't good enough. Nobody graduates with just that. Go all the way through business 499. The goal is to make money now and long into the future. Failure to follow that common sense is the root of the problems this country now faces.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Within a week? :lol: People already complain about a 48 hour turn around. Can you imagine the flack they'd get if DirecTV told people "repairs are up to you" and then on top of that the customer finds out it could take a week? They'd lose customers so fast it wouldn't be funny.


How long does it take to call Directv, Report the Problem and wait for a Replacement and then you have to send your old DVR back and box it up, still having an old Refurb unit.

This is just an Option for those who don't want to get an old Refurb Replacement DVR. I can have my Bad Power Supply fixed in under a week for less than $100 and Not Lose My Recordings.

That is worth the wait my friend, well worth the wait.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> Jeepers, you're a tough one.
> 
> .


 When ever you Question anything about Directv your in for a fight with this guy!:lol:

While there are a few also that think its OK to get worst equipment then when they started their directv service, its Obvious they never got an HR22 replaced with HR21.

Lets just say that tech (while not my Problem) was pissed when I refused it and called Directv .
So if the tech got backcharged and has to return to bring PROPER equipment, again thats the end result of bad business practices and they can take that up with Directv. 
Cause I didn't get paid for the 2 Days of BS waiting around for the Tech to bring me unacceptable equipment that could have been avoided.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> I have a HR22 refurbished for 4 years and still works like it's new


When the HR22 was New, it Never worked like new.:hurah:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

damondlt said:


> When the HR22 was New, it Never worked like new.:hurah:


Now that is Funny (but sadly True)!!! :lol:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Richierich said:


> How long does it take to call Directv, Report the Problem and wait for a Replacement and then you have to send your old DVR back and box it up, still having an old Refurb unit.


It takes 48 hours from the time you called to receive a replacement unless you call on a weekend. That's far less time than taking it to a place to be repaired where they may get to it within a week. The time it takes to box up the old unit and send it back isn't counted towards how long you're without TV, but the time it sits in the repair shop is. Oh, and if you take it to be repaired it's still "an old Refurb unit". Repairing IS refurbishing.



Richierich said:


> This is just an Option for those who don't want to get an old Refurb Replacement DVR. I can have my Bad Power Supply fixed in under a week for less than $100 and Not Lose My Recordings.


If you're worried about your recordings and willing to go a week or so without TV (if it is your only unit) then no problem. Most people aren't like that though. And, again, if you have it repaired it becomes "refurbished".



Richierich said:


> That is worth the wait my friend, well worth the wait.


Not to me or, I'm sure, most of DirecTV's customers.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

There's a lot of complaining about getting refurb receivers. Is there a service provider that will guarantee a NEW replacement or do they also provide used equipment? 

I ask because it seems as if this practice surprises everyone; as if it’s somehow different from everyone else. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s changed but every cable service I’ve ever had did it this way. I remember getting some pretty dinged up replacement boxes so if another service provider is replacing a bad box with a new one as standard practice I’d like to hear about it.

Mike


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

It does seem to be the standard procedure. It wouldn't kill them, however, to have an option (or even a "hidden" option, where someone has to know about it ahead of time and specifically ask) to receive a new box, and/or specific model of box, for an extra fee.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Very few new receivers fail when they are first turned on. They fail after they have been used. Cost dictates a used receiver that failed be replaced with a refurbished receiver. If DirecTV or any other service provider were to fulfill peoples wishes of getting new receivers as replacements the cost would be astronomical and passed on to the customers.


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> If you want a specific model, go get one. Don't blame them for replacing a faulty DVR with a working one. What do you expect to do with all of those receivers? Throw all but the 24's and above in the dumpster while eating the cost?


THey are replacing HR24's etc with STB's they (D*) don't want back themselves. I was sent an HR21 called and asked to have it sent back. 2nd one arrived and same STB HR21 arrives. I have called 3x to get a returning shipment label but none have arrived. I read where others were told to keep their HR21. So I have 1 HR20, 1 H21, and an HR21. All in the man closet collecting dust.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

TMan said:


> It does seem to be the standard procedure. It wouldn't kill them, however, to have an option (or even a "hidden" option, where someone has to know about it ahead of time and specifically ask) to receive a new box, and/or specific model of box, for an extra fee.


Just use the code word Shibboleet....sorry, obscure xkcd reference


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

markrubi said:


> THey are replacing HR24's etc with STB's they (D*) don't want back themselves. I was sent an HR21 called and asked to have it sent back. 2nd one arrived and same STB HR21 arrives. I have called 3x to get a returning shipment label but none have arrived. I read where others were told to keep their HR21. So I have 1 HR20, 1 H21, and an HR21. All in the man closet collecting dust.


Well, you could ask the Smithsonian if they want them. :sure:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

TMan said:


> It does seem to be the standard procedure. It wouldn't kill them, however, to have an option (or even a "hidden" option, where someone has to know about it ahead of time and specifically ask) to receive a new box, and/or specific model of box, for an extra fee.


I've been pushing for this approach for years as it would give an Option to those not happy with the current system to pay a little more to get what they want.

Directv would make more money and the Directv Customer would be happier also, so it is a Win-Win Situation.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Exactly. And if it was not officially promoted, but only whispered by word of mouth in circles like Dbstalk, the whole thing would be self-screening because the reps wouldn't have to suggest a course of action that would annoy most of their customers. The only people that would ask for it are those already willing to pay extra.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Having worked for both manufacturers and distributors of warranty parts I can say that my experience is that warranties, both original and extended, are backed with the promise of "new or like new" equipment. That means a lot of reconditioned parts and products are sent out and as long as they work "like new" the terms of the warranty have been satisfied. A unit that fails is replaced with one that works and does the same thing as the failed unit. It is almost never new, especially under extened warranties or protection plans.

DirecTV is by no means the only one to do this. It's actually an industry standard. You had a DVR, you get a DVR. If and when it dies too, you get another DVR.

You are assured of having a working DVR. No more. No less.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> Can I offer you a "leased" crying towel? It may not be new but still functions as it was designed to do. :sure:


It functions as well as the current software release allows. There is a decided difference.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Bertelson said:


> There's a lot of complaining about getting refurb receivers. Is there a service provider that will guarantee a NEW replacement or do they also provide used equipment?
> 
> I ask because it seems as if this practice surprises everyone; as if it's somehow different from everyone else. Honestly, I don't know if it's changed but every cable service I've ever had did it this way. I remember getting some pretty dinged up replacement boxes so if another service provider is replacing a bad box with a new one as standard practice I'd like to hear about it.
> 
> Mike


I've never had service with anyone where I'm using their equipment and I receive new items as replacements.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Having worked for both manufacturers and distributors of warranty parts I can say that my experience is that warranties, both original and extended, are backed with the promise of "new or like new" equipment.  That means a lot of reconditioned parts and products are sent out and as long as they work "like new" the terms of the warranty have been satisfied. A unit that fails is replaced with one that works and does the same thing as the failed unit. It is almost never new, especially under extened warranties or protection plans.
> 
> DirecTV is by no means the only one to do this. It's actually an industry standard. You had a DVR, you get a DVR. If and when it dies too, you get another DVR.
> 
> You are assured of having a working DVR. No more. No less.


"new or like new" equipment _*with equal or better features/performance*_. Recording capacity is a feature.

Imagine buying a brand new 2013 vehicle with a no-lemon warranty and finding out your replacement is a used 2010 model. According to DTV this is ok. :nono2:

DTV policy is plain scum. Replacements should be of equal or better features/performance. If I have an HR24 that dies I shouldn't have to accept anything less than an HR24 replacement. If they don't have any refurbished ones then too bad - replacement will be new. That's the fair and honest policy people expect.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

HarleyD said:


> DirecTV is by no means the only one to do this. You had a DVR, you get a DVR. If and when it dies too, you get another DVR.
> 
> You are assured of having a working DVR. No more. No less.


Well, if you have an HR24 you will be sent a Replacement HR24 so that is an Exception as I am sure it also applies to the HR34.

That is why I buy Owned HR24s and I have the Protection Plan so that Guarantees me a Replacement HR24 and nothing else is acceptable.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Well, if you have an HR24 you will be sent a Replacement HR24 so that is an Exception as I am sure it also applies to the HR34.
> 
> That is why I buy Owned HR24s and I have the Protection Plan so that Guarantees me a Replacement HR24 and nothing else is acceptable.


Richie is right - its one of the differences between the mainstream leased devices that most people have and the limited number of users with owned equipment.

In the case of leased - you get what replacement they send you.

In the case of owned - you get the same or newer device (assuming you have the Protection Plan).

At this time, most people have leased HD DVRs.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

unixguru said:


> "new or like new" equipment _*with equal or better features/performance*_. Recording capacity is a feature.
> 
> Imagine buying a brand new 2013 vehicle with a no-lemon warranty and finding out your replacement is a used 2010 model. According to DTV this is ok. :nono2:
> 
> DTV policy is plain scum. Replacements should be of equal or better features/performance. If I have an HR24 that dies I shouldn't have to accept anything less than an HR24 replacement. If they don't have any refurbished ones then too bad - replacement will be new. That's the fair and honest policy people expect.


Seriously? Unless something has changed this is the exact same policy as every other service provider.

I could understand the vitriol if this is somehow unique to DIRECTV and so far afield from the rest of the industry as to violate our trust as subscribers. It is a fact that this is a common industry practice and has had for decades. Call me flag waving fanboy blindly sticking up for DIRECTV but you can't dispute my comments.

Mike


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## Dazed & Confused (Jun 13, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> I would if their cost/life cycle had been exhausted. Even for something as intangible as customer satisfaction, I do not see where it serves DirecTv to piss off customers by sending out old slow boxes with new hard drives, as a replacement, when those boxes have probably been paid for three times over by now.
> 
> *If they just HAVE to reuse them well past their life cycle, they should send them out to new customers for their "FREE" installs. If the new customers want new equipment, then let them pay the same up front fee the rest of pay.*
> Anything wrong with that business model? My employer remanufactures coffee equipment for resale. I know for a fact we wont even bother with older appliances, because no one wants old stuff, even if its in brand new condition. I cant see DirecTv's customers being any different.


In everyone's rush (at least thru page 2) to defend DirecTV, they seemed to have missed the most logical response to the problem. If all the equipment is functionally equivalent, they shouldn't have to worry about upsetting new customers, right. Everything should be good. Both new and established customers would be happy.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Dazed & Confused said:


> In everyone's rush (at least thru page 2) to defend DirecTV, they seemed to have missed the most logical response to the problem. If all the equipment is functionally equivalent, they shouldn't have to worry about upsetting new customers, right. Everything should be good. Both new and established customers would be happy.


They may be functionally equivalent but certainly not speed equivalent. It's a fact but not a consideration in replacement...with the possible exception of the HR24.

Mike


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Imagine buying a brand new 2013 vehicle with a no-lemon warranty and finding out your replacement is a used 2010 model. According to DTV this is ok. :nono2:


You're comparing apples to oranges there.



unixguru said:


> DTV policy is plain scum.


Who's is better?



unixguru said:


> If I have an HR24 that dies I shouldn't have to accept anything less than an HR24 replacement. If they don't have any refurbished ones then too bad - replacement will be new. That's the fair and honest policy people expect.


HR24's get replaced with HR24's. That's been well documented on dbstalk.com.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

RunnerFL said:


> You only pay that fee when you initially get the unit, not every time you have a unit replaced.


Yes, but if you return it, someone else will be paying the full lease fee for it.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Dazed & Confused said:


> In everyone's rush (at least thru page 2) to defend DirecTV, they seemed to have missed the most logical response to the problem. If all the equipment is functionally equivalent, they shouldn't have to worry about upsetting new customers, right. Everything should be good. Both new and established customers would be happy.


Some new customers get refurbs on installs. It all depends on what the installer has.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> Yes, but if you return it, someone else will be paying the full lease fee for it.


So? Why are you against a company making money?

You think the next person to get it should get it for free? Then you'd be complaining that you had to pay an upfront fee and someone else didn't. sheesh


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

RunnerFL said:


> So? Why are you against a company making money?
> 
> You think the next person to get it should get it for free? Then you'd be complaining that you had to pay an upfront fee and someone else didn't. sheesh


No, don't assign my reaction to something you don't know anything about. As I said earlier, subsequent leasing of used equipment to a different subscriber should have a reduced fee.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> No, don't assign my reaction to something you don't know anything about. As I said earlier, subsequent leasing of used equipment to a different subscriber should have a reduced fee.


And then you and other customers would complain that someone else paid less. Read any threads on pricing around here and you'll find that exact same thing going on.

If you don't like it then vote with your wallet. Take your hard earned money elsewhere and show DirecTV how bad you think their policy is. If I don't like how a company does business I don't do business with them, it's that simple.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Lets make sure we keep this civil....I'm just sayin'

Mike


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

RunnerFL said:


> And then you and other customers would complain that someone else paid less. Read any threads on pricing around here and you'll find that exact same thing going on.
> 
> If you don't like it then vote with your wallet. Take your hard earned money elsewhere and show DirecTV how bad you think their policy is. *If I don't like how a company does business I don't do business with them, it's that simple.*


So you agree with everything that Directv does businesswise? I find that hard to believe. I mostly like Directv and their product. I'm not going to leave because I don't agree with every policy of theirs.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> So you agree with everything that Directv does businesswise?


Every single thing, no. However when it comes to their policies that involve my hard earned money I have no problem.



studechip said:


> I mostly like Directv and their product. I'm not going to leave because I don't agree with every policy of theirs.


It's your choice but if I complained as much as most around here I'd have left DirecTV long ago.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Does this battle really matter? What makes either of you right? They are all opinions

Everyone has the right to complain, just like everyone has the right not to listen.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

It would have been easy if the DVRs in question had external power supplies. Then he would have gotten a new power supply and still kept recordings, favorites, etc. External power supply would likely be better on the DVR being it wouldn't be as hot inside the case leading to drive failures.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

studechip said:


> No, don't assign my reaction to something you don't know anything about. As I said earlier, subsequent leasing of used equipment to a different subscriber should have a reduced fee.


Through out the course of the lease program advanced receivers have gotten cheaper. So the savings is done across the board rather than specific to a receiver but it has the same impact.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

JeffBowser said:


> Unexpected Saturday Delivery of replacement DVR: +1
> 
> Sending me the same make and model that has already fried on me: -2
> 
> ...


All they are obliged to do is replace a broken device with one that is the either the same model or higher. Next case, Inspector.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

studechip said:


> No, don't assign my reaction to something you don't know anything about. As I said earlier, subsequent leasing of used equipment to a different subscriber should have a reduced fee.


But that's not how it works in business. Profit is the name of the game. Companies like Avis, Hertz, Aaron's, and Rent A Center lease used equipment to new customers at the same price the previous renter received. If they didn't they'd all be bankrupt.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Aaron's, and Rent A Center lease used equipment to new customers at the same price the previous renter received. .


.This is 100% false.
A lease to own contract Has a Previously rented price, and there is a Brand new price.

I know my brother is Aarons manager.

Also his arrons like I'm sure many do NOT rent out equipment, only lease to own. All but few states must keep the equipment a minimum of 3 months with arrons.

And when someone returns something cause they can't afford it , it goes out on the floor at a discounted monthly price as well as a discounted over all price.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> unixguru said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine buying a brand new 2013 vehicle with a no-lemon warranty and finding out your replacement is a used 2010 model. According to DTV this is ok. :nono2:
> ...


How so? Because of the "lease" terminology BS? Because a vehicle can actually be repaired rather than having to be entirely replaced?

Scratch buy and substitute lease. Lease a 2013 vehicle with a no-lemon guarantee that allows replacement with anything they want. After all, I'm just paying a lease fee to have 4 wheels that carry me down the road...



RunnerFL said:


> unixguru said:
> 
> 
> > DTV policy is plain scum.
> ...


That makes it ok? Seems to me that a significant number of people here think it isn't ok. Sure, while their pseudo-monopoly holds they can get away with it. But there is a price to be paid and eventually it will hurt. The trend is for people to stop using services like this so it isn't the "other guy" they need to be worried about.



RunnerFL said:


> unixguru said:
> 
> 
> > Replacements should be of equal or better features/performance. If I have an HR24 that dies I shouldn't have to accept anything less than an HR24 replacement. If they don't have any refurbished ones then too bad - replacement will be new. That's the fair and honest policy people expect.
> ...


I don't follow _everything_ that is discussed here. I take it that this isn't an official policy? Was it true with the previous models that if you had the current model that you got a current model replacement? What happens when the HR25 comes out? Do HR24 still get replaced with HR24? Or does it then fall into the past model pool where you get anything? Or does the HR24 represent a new class/pool/tier? Or is the difference that an HR24 customer is still under contract commitment?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

TDK1044 said:


> All they are obliged to do is replace a broken device with one that is the either the same model or higher. Next case, Inspector.


They are? Doesn't seem to be what people are experiencing.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

Sure they are...they just don't like getting the same model that's a year older.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

unixguru said:


> They are? Doesn't seem to be what people are experiencing.


Perhaps re-read Post #97. This clarifies how it works.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Huh?

The OP said nothing about *owning* his device. If he owned it then they would be obliged otherwise not.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

The OP is embarrassed at having started this thread and currently wishes his name was no longer attached to it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JeffBowser said:


> The OP is embarrassed at having started this thread and currently wishes his name was no longer attached to it.


Understood.

Seems any time something positive is posted, the naysayers come out of the woodwork. Life goes on.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> The OP is embarrassed at having started this thread and currently wishes his name was no longer attached to it.


Don't be. Your specific complaint may be a bit thin. But threads like this repeatedly point out the mistakes DTV makes. Maybe, if enough "bad press" here gets their attention, they might do something about it.

What they need to do is pretty simple actually. *Create a crystal-clear policy that covers all the normal lifecycle issues. Publish the policy. Follow the policy.* Duh.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Their policy is clear. I understand the policy. You ask for a replacement, you get grab-bag.

I do not like the policy. I do not like getting the very same DVR make and model except date-stamped two years older than mine that is in the beginning stages of demonstrating an ability to go up in smoke.

It's that simple. That's what my ill-advised rant was in sum total.



unixguru said:


> Don't be. Your specific complaint may be a bit thin. But threads like this repeatedly point out the mistakes DTV makes. Maybe, if enough "bad press" here gets their attention, they might do something about it.
> 
> What they need to do is pretty simple actually. *Create a crystal-clear policy that covers all the normal lifecycle issues. Publish the policy. Follow the policy.* Duh.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Shades228 said:


> Through out the course of the lease program advanced receivers have gotten cheaper. So the savings is done across the board rather than specific to a receiver but it has the same impact.


That's a good point and one that I hadn't considered. I still think a lower fee to lease used equipment is fair.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

It's really very simple. Any equipment that you use from D* is leased and not purchased...even if you pay for it from an authorized dealer like Solid Signal in order to get a specific box. 

If your device fails, D* will replace it with a 'similar device'.....meaning your model (of whatever year) or newer.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

MysteryMan said:


> But that's not how it works in business. Profit is the name of the game. Companies like Avis, Hertz, Aaron's, and Rent A Center lease used equipment to new customers at the same price the previous renter received. If they didn't they'd all be bankrupt.


Those companies are mostly renting their products, not leasing them. Also, it's understood that their products aren't new. When you lease a car from Ford, etc, it's new. You are correct about the profit part, no doubt!


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

TDK1044 said:


> If your device fails, D* will replace it with a 'similar device'.....meaning your model (of whatever year) or newer.


Not entirely true. That meaning is only if it's *owned*, which very few are, or it's an HR24 (still waiting on an answer as to why the HR24 is different).

If their policy was to always replace with your model or newer then far more people would be happy.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Their policy is clear. I understand the policy. You ask for a replacement, you get grab-bag.


Unless it's a this or that or the other. I'm not clear about the policy relative to HR24.

In your specific case the policy is clear.

Food for thought... if a design/model has a tendency to fail in a certain way (smoke!) it's very possible that refurbishing will replace the component with one that doesn't have the flaw. For example, a component could be replaced with a different brand or a part with better specifications (higher wattage, etc). The consumer will never know this was done. In fact, a refurbished model could be *better* than a new one.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Unless it's a this or that or the other. I'm not clear about the policy relative to HR24.


It doesn't get much clearer than an HR24 gets replaced with an HR24.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Unless it's a this or that or the other. I'm not clear about the policy relative to HR24.


While I can't say for sure the reasons for this, there are some differences between the Hx24 and the previous H/HR receivers.


The HR24 doesn't need an external DECA adapter.
The HR24 can do 2-way communication the RC65RX remote which has some additional Advanced setup menus one of which will lock the remotes audio buttons to any of the devices programmed to the AV1, AV2, or TV slider positions.
The HR24 is much faster than the previous HR2x DVRs.
These are a couple of differences. That fact that it doesn't need an external DECA adapter means that DIRECTV doesn't have to supply one if they send out a HR21-23.

Personally I couldn't imagine having to go from the speed of my HR24 to the HR21 so I'd be rather peeved so that's probably another consideration in the policy.



> In your specific case the policy is clear.
> 
> Food for thought... if a design/model has a tendency to fail in a certain way (smoke!) it's very possible that refurbishing will replace the component with one that doesn't have the flaw. For example, a component could be replaced with a different brand or a part with better specifications (higher wattage, etc). The consumer will never know this was done. In fact, a refurbished model could be *better* than a new one.


Interesting point. I hadn't considered they'd go so far as to replace the power supply but it certainly is possible.

Mike


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, after some days I can see my current DVR exhibits an annoying tendency to lose DirecTV closed captioning and periodically screw up an HDMI handshake. While these things can be worked around or with, I suspect that DirecTV's "refurbishment" doesn't go much further than testing that thing will power on before they send it back out. Perhaps what I got was something someone else sent back for these very issues.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

JeffBowser said:


> Well, after some days I can see my current DVR exhibits an annoying tendency to lose DirecTV closed captioning and periodically screw up an HDMI handshake. While these things can be worked around or with, I suspect that DirecTV's "refurbishment" doesn't go much further than testing that thing will power on before they send it back out. Perhaps what I got was something someone else sent back for these very issues.


The Closed Captioning thing is a software issue. Even the HR24's have the problem.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I put an HR23-700 into the same place with the same firmware as the HR23-700 that fried. This CC issue is different looking than the one I'm used to seeing. Software makes sense, but this is odd, and exhibiting differently.



KyL416 said:


> The Closed Captioning thing is a software issue. Even the HR24's have the problem.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

KyL416 said:


> The Closed Captioning thing is a software issue. Even the HR24's have the problem.





JeffBowser said:


> I put an HR23-700 into the same place with the same firmware as the HR23-700 that fried. This CC issue is different looking than the one I'm used to seeing. Software makes sense, but this is odd, and exhibiting differently.


Kyl is correct that firmware controls the CC capability.

You might want to go into the settings, unset CC completely, and then reset it and do a DVR "reboot"/reset using the setup menu to do so.

That way, you know you're at least starting with a "clean slate".


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Yes, yes. As I said, the issues I am seeing are manageable. I only mention them in context of the refurbishment subject, not that I require assistance on them.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Kyl is correct that firmware controls the CC capability.
> 
> You might want to go into the settings, unset CC completely, and then reset it and do a DVR "reboot"/reset using the setup menu to do so.
> 
> That way, you know you're at least starting with a "clean slate".


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JeffBowser said:


> Yes, yes. As I said, the issues I am seeing are manageable. I only mention them in context of the refurbishment subject, not that I require assistance on them.


OK.

Your are wise to thoroughly test the refurbished unit, even though they are internally tested diagnostically (and repaired if needed) before being sent back into inventory.

I had an HR21 refurb HD DVR for almost 2 years without any issues...but upgraded to a newer unit thereafter when the opportunity came up to do so.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TDK1044 said:


> If your device fails, D* will replace it with a 'similar device'.....meaning your model (of whatever year) or newer.


The term that DIRECTV uses in its Protection Plan T&Cs is "comparable features". It doesn't make any guarantees about the unit being the same model or newer.

http://www.directv.com/dpp_terms/1010_protection_plan_terms.pdf


DPP said:


> If we determine a replacement receiver is required, we will ship a new or refurbished unit with comparable features to the location where you receive DIRECTV programming.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

harsh said:


> The term that DIRECTV uses in its Protection Plan T&Cs is "comparable features". It doesn't make any guarantees about the unit being the same model or newer.
> 
> http://www.directv.com/dpp_terms/1010_protection_plan_terms.pdf


True, but a smaller hard drive isn't exactly comparable, now is it?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"JeffBowser" said:


> :lol: Yes, exactly!
> 
> It works for now. I'll see how long it holds up. Random equipment off the shelf was expected. What was not expected was one quite this old. If it's been run most of that time, I would expect that I'm going to be calling them again soon for something fried or non-functional.


Actually I might wonder if that's a better replacement to get. It likely had a hard drive fail or something and they actually replaced it, rather than just someone return it and they just sent it back out. You never know, unless you have one of those tiny wire cameras to shove inside and see the manufacture date of the drive. .


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## inf0z (Oct 16, 2011)

Just a thought...

Referbs and not scrapping older models help keep costs of replacements and upgrades down. The more DTV has to spend to manufacture equipment the more the customer pays. Great news though! There is a choice for those who would like to pay extra to replace a leased receiver with the same exact model or upgraded model. solidsignal.com


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

studechip said:


> True, but a smaller hard drive isn't exactly comparable, now is it?


Only if the capacity is considered a feature. Ignoring capacity, any Plus HD DVR still does everything else the other models do (except for 3D on the earliest models).

Going from DECA to non-DECA is a challenge to argue but they made a similar transition from internal OTA to external OTA without showing much remorse.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

harsh said:


> Only if the capacity is considered a feature. Ignoring capacity, any Plus HD DVR still does everything else the other models do (except for 3D on the earliest models).
> 
> Going from DECA to non-DECA is a challenge to argue but they made a similar transition from internal OTA to external OTA without showing much remorse.


The size of the hard drive is always considered a feature. They brag about how much you can record on it.
Why do you think people add and eSATA drive ? More storage.
There are many many threads wanting to know "what is the largest external drive I can run with my HR??". 
There are threads of users thinking they were upgrading to the newest receiver with a larger hard drive and got another one with the same size drive and were very unhappy with that.


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