# D* Won't let me order a new HR20 from them



## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

I finally replaced my last TV this past weekend with a HD one. I have 3 TV all HD and currently have 2 HR20's and one SD D* Tivo (R10?).

So last night I prepared myself for the dreaded call to D*. Seems like every time I call it is an hour plus call. Talked to the first CSR and told him I wanted to upgrade to an HR 20. He couldn't help me directly so he sent me off to someone else. That person for some reason could not enter a new order for me so they passed me off to technical installation support, I think. After 15 minutes with them (now on the phone for 40 minutes total) that person comes back and tells me since I have previously order 2 HR20 within the last year I can't get another one. I was like WHAT!! That person was like sorry I can't help you as I can not override the system. So I told that person to send me to retention and off I went into the retention queue. Seems like every time I call them I end up in retention. Wish they had that as the first option in the menu maze.

After a 10 minute wait and just over 50 minutes on the phone I get retention. I explained the whole story again and they tell me again since I've had 2 other orders with in the last year for an HD receiver I can not get another one from them. I asked for a manager but the person refused to let me speak to a manager insisting that no one here can do anything for me because there is no override to enter an order for me. He told me my only option is to go to a retail store and buy a HR20 there. He said something like since their is such a high demand for the HD receivers you are only allowed to place 2 orders within a year. What BS is that? 

So what is the deal, am I stuck going to a retailer and paying $300 for a HR20?

Ed


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

So were you trying to get it for free? Or were you willing to pay the 300 for it? If your trying to get it free then yeah i doubt you will get more then 2, your probably lucky you have 2 in that short amount of time.


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

cnmsales said:


> So were you trying to get it for free? Or were you willing to pay the 300 for it? If your trying to get it free then yeah i doubt you will get more then 2, your probably lucky you have 2 in that short amount of time.


No not Free. I was willing to pay $199 for it like my other 2. But they wouldn't take anything. Just said if you want one go to a retailer and get it.

Ed


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

So you wanted a THIRD $100 discount and are suprised they didn't give it to you?

I do think you would be better off just going to a local retailer.


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Then go to the store and get it. Since you are willing to pay for it.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Yea they did the same thing to me. I have 2 myself and and r15-100 I think and a directivo and 2 more standard recievers, and an h20. So i wanted to upgrade this h20 to the hr20 and they said " nope ' your npt eligable untill December which is 1 yar from when I got the first hr 20.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

ebockelman said:


> So you wanted a THIRD $100 discount and are suprised they didn't give it to you?
> 
> I do think you would be better off just going to a local retailer.


Ive got to agree here that after two $100 rebates i am not suprised they wouldnt do that again. Now not even selling you one at full price is odd, but if you were willing to pay full price just get it at the store. No difference.


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## GutBomb (Jun 17, 2004)

Yeah, you know when you get them from them they are at a huge discount, and DirecTV didn't get where they are by giving away free stuff. With all the people ordering HD now of course DirecTV is going to favor them over you. You won't be paying $100+ more per month for that box since you're already paying for your subscription but new customers will.

Suck it up and go buy one if you really want a 3rd one.


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

ebockelman said:


> So you wanted a THIRD $100 discount and are suprised they didn't give it to you?
> 
> I do think you would be better off just going to a local retailer.


Yes very surprised. After reading on here about people getting them for free, $99 or $199 and then them to tell me "sorry go get one at a retailer if you want one" I was very surprised. Granted I was not looking for a free one at all and would of paid $199 for it like my other 2. I mean they wouldn't even take $299 for it. Basically said we can't help you, you are on your own.

Ed


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

EdK99 said:


> Yes very surprised. After reading on here about people getting them for free, $99 or $199 and then them to tell me "sorry go get one at a retailer if you want one" I was very surprised. Granted I was not looking for a free one at all and would of paid $199 for it like my other 2. I mean they wouldn't even take $299 for it. Basically said we can't help you, you are on your own.
> 
> Ed


they do have a policy(i just checked) that you can only get so many "advanced" receivers every six months. Not sure why.
I think his point, and mine too, is that you had already gotten two discounts(i assume in the same year), so it really isnt suprising that they wouldn't(even if they could) give you another break. If $299 isnt a deal stopper, like i said before, just run get another one from Best buy or somewhere. You will be in no worse shape.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The moment the new HD channels went live, many of the discounts were pulled from the system. They aren't even there anymore for CSRs or supervisors to access. They are strictly enforcing the time limits for discounts while they are so backlogged with new orders.

So your options seem to be wait or pay full leased priced at a retailer.

Good luck,
Tom


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The moment the new HD channels went live, many of the discounts were pulled from the system. They aren't even there anymore for CSRs or supervisors to access. They are strictly enforcing the time limits for discounts while they are so backlogged with new orders.
> 
> So your options seem to be wait or pay full leased priced at a retailer.
> 
> ...


I have to agree, we live in a "capitalist" society where supply-demand=cost, not price=cost. so now demand is high, supply is not keeping up, so pay up or shut up...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Historically...

You can get only 1 deal over a 6-12 month period... as of late they have been a little more lax on that rule... but I have heard from many individuals... the "shoe" dropped late last week on the "extra" credits...

Especially on HD equipment


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The retail, ownership cost of an HR20 is $800 so you can't blame them for not wanting to eat $600 more than twice a year.


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## Crypter (Jun 21, 2007)

I got all 3 of my HR20's for $99 or less through D*. 
I guess it depends on your level of programming. I happen to subscribe to just about every service D* provides so maybe that had soemthing to do with it. But it can be done.


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Historically...
> 
> You can get only 1 deal over a 6-12 month period...
> Especially on HD equipment


Do you mean on the same model receiver? I got a $199 "deal" on the HR20 and a $50 "deal" on the H20 both in the past 7 months.


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## randyk47 (Aug 21, 2006)

Even if you haven't gotten an upgrade from D* recently they're reluctant/unwilling to do much dealing right now. About 5-6 weeks ago I ordered an HD DVR and new Slimline from D*. Because I was at the end of my 2-year obligation and hadn't gotten any new equipment from them recently I was offered a $199.95 plus S&H deal. When D* couldn't install the dish the whole deal got canceled. When I got a private installer to do the new Slimline I went back to D* for the HD DVR. The initial "best" offer from Retention was now $299.95 plus S&H and the $100 rebate was gone. It was only after some wheeling and dealing with a supervisor that I was able to get the HD DVR. Of course, by the time I got to the supervisor I wasn't a happy camper and got the HD DVR for the S&H (plus tax). But I won't go as far as to say I got a deal....it cost me $400+ to get the Slimline.


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## rynberg (Oct 6, 2006)

You can get NIB HR20s from D*TV dealers off Ebay for around $200. Yes, you have to be careful but it can be done regularly.


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

I just added my 3rd HR20 last week but it had been more than a year since I got my first two. Best deal I could must after about six calls was $199 ($100 off). I wasn't realy happy at the time since I got the first two for $99 total, but I knew that the deals were drying up and feel a little better now.


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## Elephanthead (Feb 3, 2007)

269 at costco, you can return the membership after you buy it, you will be extending your 2 year commitment and they will raise the breakup fee to $20,000 or so, I am not sure. I still don't understand what costs they are incuring when you cancel service, they get the equipment back and just send it off to some other suckers, I can't imagine they pay the installers more then $3.50 an hour, it must be the vans they drive around. hehe.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

When I log into the D* website and go to upgrade, the HR20 is not on the screen for me. I have not ordered any receivers since the HR20 in 09/06 and my account is in good standing. (D* since 03/04) The HR20 is on the equipment screen for my father-in-law.


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The retail, ownership cost of an HR20 is $800 so you can't blame them for not wanting to eat $600 more than twice a year.


Ok I will pay the $299 for it that is not the big problem I have D* after my conversation with then last night. The bigger problem is that they did not even want my $299. My dish and switch are upgraded and the place where this receiver is going has 2 coax going to it so it is simply a plug and play. Why wouldn't D* take my $299 and ship me a HR20. Why are they forcing me to go to a retailer and pay them $299. I'm sure BB gets a cut of that $299 right??

Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that D* would just shun existing customers and say sorry we can't sell you a HR20 directly. Go find one at a retailer. What great customer service!!

Ed


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

D* is like any other big corp....
once they get you sweet talked
& your money then you go to the back
of the line no matter how long you have
done biz with them...they are too busy giving
all the deals to "new" customers & getting
them locked in....a vicious circle for sure


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

You order a HR20 from D*, they have to send an installer out to set it up. You get it from a retailer, you can set it up yourself. D* probably doesn't want to waste an install appointment slot on such a simple receiver swap out. Besides, you'll be saving yourself $19.95 S&H by doing it yourself.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> The moment the new HD channels went live, many of the discounts were pulled from the system. They aren't even there anymore for CSRs or supervisors to access. They are strictly enforcing the time limits for discounts while they are so backlogged with new orders.
> 
> So your options seem to be wait or pay full leased priced at a retailer.
> 
> ...


Tom, there may be less discounts now, but I got a free H-20 less than a month ago(after having got a free hr-20 when i signed up) . I had to explain to them why i should not have to pay(and i really had a good point). Took some doing, but its possible. Doubt i could get another though, they didnt really want to do this one.


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## Tonedeaf (Jun 13, 2006)

I just got my 3rd HR20 this past weekend. All 3 were added within the last 2 months. First was a replacement on my HR10, 2nd I paid $99, 3rd was another replacement unit. Total out of pocket $139.00. Should be able to make that up selling the HR10 on ebay.


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

Newshawk said:


> You order a HR20 from D*, they have to send an installer out to set it up. You get it from a retailer, you can set it up yourself. D* probably doesn't want to waste an install appointment slot on such a simple receiver swap out. Besides, you'll be saving yourself $19.95 S&H by doing it yourself.


Yes I know I would save the 19.95 S&H but that was not even an option. Seem silly that would have to send an installer out to swap a receiver.

Well I guess it is off to BB or CC to find one. Hopefully I can find a black HR20 but I doubt it. Only ones I have ever seen are silver hr20-700.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

Tonedeaf said:


> I just got my 3rd HR20 this past weekend. All 3 were added within the last 2 months. First was a replacement on my HR10, 2nd I paid $99, 3rd was another replacement unit. Total out of pocket $139.00. Should be able to make that up selling the HR10 on ebay.


replacement units are counted different. I guess you owned the HR-10


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

EdK99 said:


> Yes I know I would save the 19.95 S&H but that was not even an option. Seem silly that would have to send an installer out to swap a receiver.
> 
> Well I guess it is off to BB or CC to find one. Hopefully I can find a black HR20 but I doubt it. Only ones I have ever seen are silver hr20-700.


Good luck!
Wouldnt hold my breath on a black one.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The retail, ownership cost of an HR20 is $800 so you can't blame them for not wanting to eat $600 more than twice a year.


The cost is about $400 (and dropping) so let's be realistic about what they're eating. This is not to say they have to offer discounts. Personally, I think they'd be a lot better off if they didn't treat their business like bargaining in a Turkish market.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

The HR21 is black and BB is supposed to have them.

What I don't understand is what is the difference wether you buy from D* or BB you still have to pay "$299". Stop complaining and go buy it.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

boba said:


> The HR21 is black and BB is supposed to have them.
> 
> What I don't understand is what is the difference wether you buy from D* or BB you still have to pay "$299". Stop complaining and go buy it.


Correct, however i was under the impression that he was looking for the 20 model line box. To the OP, be aware that the HR-21(the new black one) doesnt have an OTA tuner if you get one.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> The cost is about $400 (and dropping) so let's be realistic about what they're eating. This is not to say they have to offer discounts. Personally, I think they'd be a lot better off if they didn't treat their business like bargaining in a Turkish market.


I completely 100% agree with the last part.
I truely wish they would just LOCK the price, and eliminate all the aspects of the credits based on your "conversation" with the CSRs.

Just eliminate it... no credits unless it is do to some sort of service issue...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken S said:


> The cost is about $400 (and dropping) so let's be realistic about what they're eating. This is not to say they have to offer discounts. Personally, I think they'd be a lot better off if they didn't treat their business like bargaining in a Turkish market.


Agreed in general, but it seems that the users seem to be just fine with the negotiation process. If people stopped wanting to do it that way, the problem would be over.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I completely 100% agree with the last part.
> I truely wish they would just LOCK the price, and eliminate all the aspects of the credits based on your "conversation" with the CSRs.
> 
> Just eliminate it... no credits unless it is do to some sort of service issue...


Earl,

Maybe that's a good start for another thread. How could DirecTV reward it's good customers without the garage sale nonsense.

How about something like frequent flyer miles...build up points for every $1 spent and trade them in. I dunno...it just seems the current method is poor.

There is a new sheriff in town (sales VP)...maybe he'll be making more changes.


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I completely 100% agree with the last part.
> I truely wish they would just LOCK the price, and eliminate all the aspects of the credits based on your "conversation" with the CSRs.
> Just eliminate it... no credits unless it is do to some sort of service issue...


I agree because the second person I talk to last night on my way to retention mentioned I could get the $100 discount. But that person was unable to generate the order because of the restriction of having more then 2 order within a year. So the discounts are still their but in my case I'm SOL because I placed an order in Feb. and May.

Sorry D* that I couldn't upgrade all my TV's at the same time.


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## mishawaka (Sep 11, 2007)

on a side note...

i'm a new D* customer. when i signed up, i got 2 H20's, and 2 regular SD receivers. i avoided getting the HR20, because i didn't have 2 coax runs to my big screen. however, i am coming to realize i would still like an HR20 on the big screen, even if i can only use a single tuner. what's the best way to approach D* in getting this for free, or am i somewhat screwed now, and destined to pay $300?

thanks in advance.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

mishawaka said:


> on a side note...
> 
> i'm a new D* customer. when i signed up, i got 2 H20's, and 2 regular SD receivers. i avoided getting the HR20, because i didn't have 2 coax runs to my big screen. however, i am coming to realize i would still like an HR20 on the big screen, even if i can only use a single tuner. what's the best way to approach D* in getting this for free, or am i somewhat screwed now, and destined to pay $300?
> 
> thanks in advance.


If its less than three months, you *MIGHT* be able to work something out with installation support... Depending on which offer you took (as a new customer), you should've gotten 1 free adv. receiver, and 3 free std's.

If you're within your 3 months you can sometimes trade it around (like, switch an HD for a DVR). The best you'll prolly get is a -$100 discount on an HDDVR if you send back one of your H20's

and why cant you have 2 coax lines going into whatever room that is?
The HR20's usually "require" a pro install anyway, and you'll need a multiswitch so?!?


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## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

boba said:


> The HR21 is black and BB is supposed to have them.
> 
> What I don't understand is what is the difference wether you buy from D* or BB you still have to pay "$299". Stop complaining and go buy it.


Ok I haven't really complained that much other then the fact that D* is throwing me to the curb and telling me that they can not order me a new DVR.

I stopped by BB at lunch and guess what they had 2 HR20-700s and one HR21-(700??) Black. I opted for the Black HR21 as I was not planning on hooking up OTA to this receiver anyways. I have OTA hooked up to my other 2 HR20's so if I really need to see something OTA I have 2 other TV to choose from.

Now I have to prepare myself for another call to D* to activate the thing.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

EdK99 said:


> Ok I haven't really complained that much other then the fact that D* is throwing me to the curb and telling me that they can not order me a new DVR.
> 
> I stopped by BB at lunch and guess what they had 2 HR20-700s and one HR21-(700??) Black. I opted for the Black HR21 as I was not planning on hooking up OTA to this receiver anyways. I have OTA hooked up to my other 2 HR20's so if I really need to see something OTA I have 2 other TV to choose from.
> 
> Now I have to prepare myself for another call to D* to activate the thing.


congrats! thats a good looking box by all accounts


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## Tonedeaf (Jun 13, 2006)

msmith198025 said:


> replacement units are counted different. I guess you owned the HR-10


Actually no. The unit was a leased one.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I truely wish they would just LOCK the price, and eliminate all the aspects of the credits based on your "conversation" with the CSRs.
> 
> Just eliminate it... no credits unless it is do to some sort of service issue...


Absolutely. But DirecTV brought this upon themselves with all the various deals to get people to sign up or stay signed up. What a distorted marketplace.  It puts a value on when or from whom you buy, not what you are buying.

With all the new HD channels, this is DirecTV's opportunity to get pricing back under control. If they can hang tough for a year or two, they will buy back their pricing credibility. If in 6 months there are more deals, they have shot themselves in the foot again.

This may not be a popular opinion here but then, I owned a stereo store for 21 years. I will take management's side in this issue. In my store I had a standing order. If I ever offered free installation, the store manager was to get a 2x4 and hit me hard on the back of the head.


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## Xing (Oct 1, 2007)

EdK99 said:


> Ok I will pay the $299 for it that is not the big problem I have D* after my conversation with then last night. The bigger problem is that they did not even want my $299. My dish and switch are upgraded and the place where this receiver is going has 2 coax going to it so it is simply a plug and play. Why wouldn't D* take my $299 and ship me a HR20. Why are they forcing me to go to a retailer and pay them $299. I'm sure BB gets a cut of that $299 right??
> 
> Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that D* would just shun existing customers and say sorry we can't sell you a HR20 directly. Go find one at a retailer. What great customer service!!
> 
> Ed


Because of the demand for the HR20 you can only get 2 within a year period from D*, even at the retail price. Now if you need a second line run they can set that up for $0 as just an install, but the reciever had to come from a retailer. They can control how much you get from their wharehouse but not how many you get from retail.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

Tonedeaf said:


> Actually no. The unit was a leased one.


ah, well regardless, if it is a replacement and you have x number, then it doesnt count the same. at least thats how i understand it.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

EdK99 said:


> Now I have to prepare myself for another call to D* to activate the thing.


Activation calls are always the easiest ones. I have never spent more than 5 minutes on the phone with D* to activate a new receiver.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Earl,
> 
> Maybe that's a good start for another thread. How could DirecTV reward it's good customers without the garage sale nonsense.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking the same thing. You spend X $$$ per month earns you YYY points. Cash in those points for extra recievers, upgrades, free month of Showtime, whatever.

The whole barter/threaten to cancel speel needs to stop.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

mishawaka said:


> on a side note...
> 
> i'm a new D* customer. when i signed up, i got 2 H20's, and 2 regular SD receivers. i avoided getting the HR20, because i didn't have 2 coax runs to my big screen. however, i am coming to realize i would still like an HR20 on the big screen, even if i can only use a single tuner. what's the best way to approach D* in getting this for free, or am i somewhat screwed now, and destined to pay $300?
> 
> thanks in advance.


You may already know that but there is a thing called SWM that is in field test. You may, after all, not need two coax. Check out the Cutting Edge forum for SWM. It's coming soon, supposedly.


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## Crypter (Jun 21, 2007)

I think if your AVG bill is over $200 a month you should be able to get ANY equipment you want from D* for free. But that is just me.

I have 3 HR20's and 1 H20 and I have had to always bring up the fact that I spend so much money with D* and that I should not have to pay $299 for a receiver. 

When I got my third one 2 weeks ago I talked with retention and they offered me the standard $100 off + $10 off my bill for 12 months and I explained that did not help me in the present as I still have to tack on $199 to my current bill of $234 so I told her maybe they could just give me the $120 now and forget the credit. She put me on hold came back and said that was fine. So I got $220 off my third HR20. I paid only S&H for the first 1 which was a replacement for my HR10-250 (19.99) and $99 for my second. In total I have spent about $240 on my 3 HR20's. That doesn't include the $400 or so I spent on my HR10-250 a while ago. 

Anyhow the bottom line is I hate that I have to negotiate so damn much to get deals on equipment!


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

It is my firm belief that I will not spend more than shipping for a piece of equipment I don't own. So far, I have been able to convince Directv to see things my way and got 2 HR20s and 1 R15 in the last 2 months, total cost $21.15. 
If they want to drop the lease/mirror fee off my account, I would consider a one-time upfront fee. They are just being silly if they think that can charge it both ways though.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

EdK99 said:


> I finally replaced my last TV this past weekend with a HD one. I have 3 TV all HD and currently have 2 HR20's and one SD D* Tivo (R10?).
> 
> So last night I prepared myself for the dreaded call to D*. Seems like every time I call it is an hour plus call. Talked to the first CSR and told him I wanted to upgrade to an HR 20. He couldn't help me directly so he sent me off to someone else. That person for some reason could not enter a new order for me so they passed me off to technical installation support, I think. After 15 minutes with them (now on the phone for 40 minutes total) that person comes back and tells me since I have previously order 2 HR20 within the last year I can't get another one. I was like WHAT!! That person was like sorry I can't help you as I can not override the system. So I told that person to send me to retention and off I went into the retention queue. Seems like every time I call them I end up in retention. Wish they had that as the first option in the menu maze.
> 
> ...


Jeez, I paid $320 for my HR20 a year ago. You want, you pay. What's wrong with that? They won't _*give *_me another?


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Juppers said:


> It is my firm belief that I will not spend more than shipping for a piece of equipment I don't own.


What do you do when you need to rent a car???


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> So you wanted a THIRD $100 discount and are suprised they didn't give it to you?


How is a THIRD $100 discount any different that someone who gets it free? Its still $300 total.


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## sat4r (Aug 27, 2006)

I agree if your monthly bill exceeds 200.00 you should be able to get what you want from them. I had to pay 99.00 for my third HR-20 friday after about 15 calls.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Juppers said:


> It is my firm belief that I will not spend more than shipping for a piece of equipment I don't own. So far, I have been able to convince Directv to see things my way and got 2 HR20s and 1 R15 in the last 2 months, total cost $21.15.
> If they want to drop the lease/mirror fee off my account, I would consider a one-time upfront fee. They are just being silly if they think that can charge it both ways though.


Let us know how that works out for you at a car dealer?


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## generalpatton78 (Dec 17, 2003)

Ken S said:


> Let us know how that works out for you at a car dealer?


Come on now lets be realistic. Not to get into a fee debate here but you pay a monthly fee for a HD DVR from cable and a no up front cost. Thats what you should compare it to and ya many people buy cars instead of lease because they like to own the vehicle.

People will always have a hard time with the idea they went to BB paid a sales man 300$ have a receipt only to be told no you didn't buy that box and you don't own it. I got my HR20's free and have no problem sending them back if I ever leave D*. However if I had paid $200 or $300 (I would have never done this) you bet I would have fought tooth and nail for the "own" status. You can argue all you want about "what good does it do to own the unit if your not with D*", but it doesn't change the fact I can sell something I own and recoup some of the investment.


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## mishawaka (Sep 11, 2007)

CJTE said:


> and why cant you have 2 coax lines going into whatever room that is?
> The HR20's usually "require" a pro install anyway, and you'll need a multiswitch so?!?


mostly an issue of not wanting to mess with the drop ceiling and fishing the coax down the wall, and putting in a new outlet.

why would i need a multiswitch? i don't have one currently, and everything works fine. i'm completely willing to use only one tuner.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

generalpatton78 said:


> Come on now lets be realistic. Not to get into a fee debate here but you pay a monthly fee for a HD DVR from cable and a no up front cost. Thats what you should compare it to and ya many people buy cars instead of lease because they like to own the vehicle.
> 
> People will always have a hard time with the idea they went to BB paid a sales man 300$ have a receipt only to be told no you didn't buy that box and you don't own it. I got my HR20's free and have no problem sending them back if I ever leave D*. However if I had paid $200 or $300 (I would have never done this) you bet I would have fought tooth and nail for the "own" status. You can argue all you want about "what good does it do to own the unit if your not with D*", but it doesn't change the fact I can sell something I own and recoup some of the investment.


I guess I almost never consider "resale value" when I purchase consumer electronics devices. Sure, you can sell some stuff on eBay, but in general the price of the item new has come down so much by the time you want to sell it...there's little market. There are exceptions to this of course.

The part of the DirecTV lease system that is a bit galling is that they will turn around and charge someone to fix a unit that has failed after 90 days through no fault of the user. You pay an upfront fee, you pay a monthly fee for the service, you pay a monthly fee for the DVR...the replacements for defects should be included and not require yet another fee.


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## tooloud10 (Sep 23, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The retail, ownership cost of an HR20 is $800 so you can't blame them for not wanting to eat $600 more than twice a year.


<rolls eyes> Sure it is. I've been told that the retail price is $600, $700, $749, and now $800 by people representing D* in various capacities.

I think we all know that the retail price on these things is completely meaningless, especially when you can get one from Best Buy for $300 as long as you activate it and pay the $4.99/month fee.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

*owned* receiver costs:
HD-DVR $749 
HD Receiver $399 
DVR $399
Receiver $149

*leased* receiver costs:
HD-DVR $299
HD Receiver $99
DVR $99
Receiver $69


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

tooloud10 said:


> <rolls eyes> Sure it is. I've been told that the retail price is $600, $700, $749, and now $800 by people representing D* in various capacities.
> 
> I think we all know that the retail price on these things is completely meaningless, especially when you can get one from Best Buy for $300 as long as you activate it and pay the $4.99/month fee.


True in that practically no one pays that full price, no matter what it is. They don't want you to pay full retail, they want you to pay the lease fee.


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## shocky (Oct 23, 2007)

Go to costco. I'm not sure if the pricing in regional/store specific, but I just signed up for service and have install scheduled on friday. I got am getting the HD DVR for $149.99 (includes the $100 instant rebate.). They had them units for sale as 'leased' units for 249.99 for existing customers. Beats full retail atleast.


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## GA20646 (Sep 14, 2006)

I replaced my last TV with an HD plasma yesterday and called D* this morning ( I found the CR's during the day give the best deals) and said "cancel service" at the initial prompt to get right to retention. I told the guy that I wanted to trade up my last SD reciever to an HR20. I got two free ones just a year so I didn't know what to expect. Right away he asked me to hold so he could see if he could offer me a deal. After about 5 minutes he came back and said $199 so I very politely pushed a little harder and he gave me a 6 month credit for HD service and a $19.95 credit for shipping. He insisted that an installer deliver it but he is coming this afternoon.
I called two weeks ago late at night and the lady said no discounts for me period. Like I said, I always have better luck with the daytime CR's. I've been with D* since around 1995. I always get free stuff or a good deal as long as I wait a year after the previous upgrade. The lady I talked to last year was the best. She gave me two HR20's, the new dish, 6 months free HBO and HD package and even credited the $19.95 shipping.

Good Luck

10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx $19.95 Delivery and Handling - Gen Reten CR $-19.95 $-1.00 
10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx - HD Access Credit $-9.99 $0.00 
10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx Thank you for Choosing DIRECTV - Charge $0.00 $0.00 
10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx DIRECTV DVR Service $3.19 $0.00 
10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx HD-DVR Upgrade - Charge $199.00 $9.95 
10/22/2007 xxxxxxxx $19.95 Delivery and Handling - Charge $19.95 $1.00


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## SatNoob (Aug 16, 2007)

lol @ people quoting inflated $750 retail prices for a $200 piece of equipment, which probably costs them $ 90.


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## GutBomb (Jun 17, 2004)

SatNoob said:


> lol @ people quoting inflated $750 retail prices for a $200 piece of equipment, which probably costs them $ 90.


Yeah OK. I'll let you keep living in that dreamworld where all the equipment that lives in an HR20 costs $90. You can't even make an HDMI controller for $90.

Don't forget R&D for the continually developing software, these guys get paid $90+ an hour to make software for these boxes. There is a good chance that $299 lease fee doesn't even come close to what it costs DirecTV to make these. Luckily the purpose of these boxes is creating a monthly revenue stream that eventually pays off the cost of the box.


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## DishCSR (Jan 14, 2004)

[

The whole barter/threaten to cancel speel needs to stop.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 500%


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## chopperjc (Oct 2, 2006)

GutBomb said:


> Yeah OK. I'll let you keep living in that dreamworld where all the equipment that lives in an HR20 costs $90. You can't even make an HDMI controller for $90.
> 
> Don't forget R&D for the continually developing software, these guys get paid $90+ an hour to make software for these boxes. There is a good chance that $299 lease fee doesn't even come close to what it costs DirecTV to make these. Luckily the purpose of these boxes is creating a monthly revenue stream that eventually pays off the cost of the box.


The stock seems to be doing well. I get that they have up front costs but I am not going to defend a large corporation on what their costs are. We really only care about our cost. I also realize if they give everything away poor D* may not be able to continue service. By the looks of the last quarterly they are doing fine.
For the record upgraded an r-15 today to my second Hr20 for 100 bucks. Have not had an equipment upgrade for 12 months.


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

EdK99 said:


> No not Free. I was willing to pay $199 for it like my other 2. But they wouldn't take anything. Just said if you want one go to a retailer and get it.
> 
> Ed


I got them to FedEx one to me for 19.95...


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## donshan (Jun 18, 2007)

DirecTV is providing substantial subsidies to encourage new and upgrade suscribers to upgrade to HD for the FIRST HD box and were before the MPEG -4 HD channels went live. However most best deals are for new customers, and the FIRST HD or HD-DVR for existing customer upgrades. This D* chart from September on subscriber aquisiiton costs (SAC) shows HD-DVRs cost them hundreds of dollars and they subsidize new customers an average of about $650.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10717&stc=1&d=1193160650

I got a very good upgrade deal from my old HR10-250 to my first HR20-700, 5 lnb dish and free install last June. We just upgraded our BR TV to a LCD HDTV, and I wanted a second HR20-700. It is not surprising that "deals" have evaporated now that orders for HD are pouring into D*. I was told that my second HR20 would be $299 either from BB or CC or from D*, but I still could get free install. If I waited 6 months ( end of Dec) I could get the second HR20 for $199. I was told HR20s are selling fast, and they had to assure new customers could get one, and I got my discounts in June.

Anyone watching analog cable on a new LCD HDTV knows that the PQ is terrible, so rather than wait until December to save $100, I bought a HR20-700 from CC. D* scheduled the wiring install 5 days later. D* sent two guys yesterday morning right on time, got it running in 2 hours, and I am good to go with all this new MPEG 4 HD on the second HR20. They also tweaked the 103(b) transponders. I don't get free labor of two techs for any other kind of service job on this house, so am still happy with the deal considering it is now a seller's market for D* HD. I remember gladly paying $1000 to get my first HR10-250 HD-DVR four years ago, and just upgraded to a new PC that wan't free either.

My view is if you want quality, expect to pay extra for it.


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## donshan (Jun 18, 2007)

Sorry, double post.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

EdK99 said:


> So what is the deal, am I stuck going to a retailer and paying $300 for a HR20?


I do not see the difference. It cost $299 whether you get it from Best Buy or DirecTV. What is the issue??? They cost $299...


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## rirwin1983 (Dec 11, 2005)

Elephanthead said:


> 269 at costco, you can return the membership after you buy it, you will be extending your 2 year commitment and they will raise the breakup fee to $20,000 or so, I am not sure. I still don't understand what costs they are incuring when you cancel service, they get the equipment back and just send it off to some other suckers, I can't imagine they pay the installers more then $3.50 an hour, it must be the vans they drive around. hehe.


That is very insulting to all the installers, including this one that frequent this board. I hope you have that same attitude when you need an installer,and you have to wait weeks or months or we dont show up a few times, hey when u only make 3.50/ u cant realy afford to put gas in that van or eat, or bathe, ect.....


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## hadji (Sep 30, 2006)

///


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

donshan said:


> DirecTV is providing substantial subsidies to
> My view is if you want quality, expect to pay extra for it.


My high end customers understand that... then you have the people who feel entitled because they ditched d* for cable, to save money, and balk at ANY extra fee they have to pay, including custom work which they would pay an electrician $100+/hr for, when I only charge $80/hr, even though they are still saving $20+ per month on their bill, or getting scores more channels..

*QUALITY IS NEVER FREE*


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Offers prior to 9/26/07 just is not relavant any more.

If you want another HR20, they were $269 at my local Costco last weekend.

Call DIRECTV and schedule the installation. It should still be for free.

- Craig


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## tooloud10 (Sep 23, 2007)

GutBomb said:


> Yeah OK. I'll let you keep living in that dreamworld where all the equipment that lives in an HR20 costs $90. You can't even make an HDMI controller for $90.
> 
> Don't forget R&D for the continually developing software, these guys get paid $90+ an hour to make software for these boxes. There is a good chance that $299 lease fee doesn't even come close to what it costs DirecTV to make these. Luckily the purpose of these boxes is creating a monthly revenue stream that eventually pays off the cost of the box.


Yeah, that sure was a "lucky" coincidence, eh? I, for one, am truly relieved that it's working out in D*'s favor.

Also, FWIW, I'm not sure that consumers were the ones demanding expensive HDMI connections on everything. People quickly forget that this "secure" connection was invented for the content providers, not the consumers.


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

EdK99 said:


> I finally replaced my last TV this past weekend with a HD one. I have 3 TV all HD and currently have 2 HR20's and one SD D* Tivo (R10?).
> 
> So last night I prepared myself for the dreaded call to D*. Seems like every time I call it is an hour plus call. Talked to the first CSR and told him I wanted to upgrade to an HR 20. He couldn't help me directly so he sent me off to someone else. That person for some reason could not enter a new order for me so they passed me off to technical installation support, I think. After 15 minutes with them (now on the phone for 40 minutes total) that person comes back and tells me since I have previously order 2 HR20 within the last year I can't get another one. I was like WHAT!! That person was like sorry I can't help you as I can not override the system. So I told that person to send me to retention and off I went into the retention queue. Seems like every time I call them I end up in retention. Wish they had that as the first option in the menu maze.
> 
> ...


The DirecTV website does mention there is restrictions on HD DVR's as two to a household. I think it's silly, but you can go retail.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

jtn said:


> The DirecTV website does mention there is restrictions on HD DVR's as two to a household. I think it's silly, but you can go retail.


True, but with all companies there's that hidden rule about supply & demand. when demand is low they over look it. but like now the demand is higher than supply so they enforce this rule. i think their trying to avoid another waiting list like they had this time last year for the HR20. if anyone still remembers that.


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## mfeldman (Oct 20, 2007)

My dilemma involves OTA and HR20's:

I called D* today to discuss upgrading my 2 owned HR10-250's to HR20's and was told by technical staff that:

1. HR20's could no longer be specified on order - might be HR21 or whatever is at installer
2. No SWMs for existing upgrade installs but only for new installs

I explained that I needed OTA because the locals D* provides are not "correct" (I live outside Boston but my zipcode is in the Providence RI DMA). And that I needed a SWM because the install D* did in 2005 was only 2 diplexed runs to each HR10-250 receiver from a 5x8 multi which would no longer work with the HR-20 and a 3rd cable run is impossible to be added to each for OTA. I explained that I knew that the SWM was in final testing but was just seeking a roadmap so I could decide how to proceed once HDNET gets taken off MPEG-2 in December.

Their response? "Tough luck - you can buy retail or call an custom installer. OTA is not our problem".

With the push on the HR21 (without OTA) and their reluctance to support the cabling they had already done, I sense that D* is so HD crazy that they don't care about supporting OTA customers wishing to upgrade. 

The SWM8 will solve my problems but if it's not released nor available to me by year's end, why should I continue with D* as my current HD programming is whitted down with no upgrade path?

Perhaps it's time to return to Comcast once Tivo is available here in a few weeks and then maybe return to D* in a year as a "new" customer? 

What an industry...(sigh)

And thanks to all here for valuable information and moral support.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

dodge boy said:


> I have to agree, we live in a "capitalist" society where supply-demand=cost, not price=cost. so now demand is high, supply is not keeping up, so pay up or shut up...


What I find amazing is the number of folks who not only expect everything "free", but then get all bent out of shape if the "free" box and dish aren't gold-plated and the "free" installation isn't white glove.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

kcmurphy88 said:


> What I find amazing is the number of folks who not only expect everything "free", but then get all bent out of shape if the "free" box and dish aren't gold-plated and the "free" installation isn't white glove.


*+1*


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Offers prior to 9/26/07 just is not relavant any more.


I really lucked out on my two HR20s. Got the first in October 2006 for about $39 after credits, and got the second in August for $19.95. I guess I timed it all just right.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

gulfwarvet said:


> True, but with all companies there's that hidden rule about supply & demand. when demand is low they over look it. but like now the demand is higher than supply so they enforce this rule. i think their trying to avoid another waiting list like they had this time last year for the HR20. if anyone still remembers that.


thas certainly possible


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## NoviDave (Oct 18, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> What I find amazing is the number of folks who not only expect everything "free", but then get all bent out of shape if the "free" box and dish aren't gold-plated and the "free" installation isn't white glove.


The flip side is they changed the technology and left their own customers to their own devices. I like the new technology, don't get me wrong, but should we have to invest big bucks for the privledge of paying them more big bucks for service?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

NoviDave said:


> The flip side is they changed the technology and left their own customers to their own devices. I like the new technology, don't get me wrong, but should we have to invest big bucks for the privledge of paying them more big bucks for service?


The key word I see here is "technology". Technology evolves and we have ot evolve with it. I had a PC that was pretty top-of-the-line when I bought it. Eventually I couldn't even load the virus protection upgrade because they only supported the newer version of Windows by that time. I couldn't load the new version of Windows on my PC because my Hard Drive was no longer big enough to support that. I had to buy a new PC (OK, wanted to so I could actually still use the newer software).

DirecTV made the decision to upgrade their technology to be able to bring more service to the customer. It cost them money and they will make more money because of the direction they took. We, as consumers, can choose to use the same equipment we always have and avail ourselves of what services that equipment supports. If we want to take advantage of the new technology, we need to upgrade our equipment. I just don't see where it's D*s responsibility to just hand us the new equipment to avail ourselves of the "new toys" (HD channels). This coming from someone who had invested about $1800 in three HD TiVos (including $1000 for my first one). Technology advances, we can choose to try to keep up, or go with what we've got.


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## yogi (Feb 8, 2006)

NoviDave said:


> The flip side is they changed the technology and left their own customers to their own devices. I like the new technology, don't get me wrong, but should we have to invest big bucks for the privledge of paying them more big bucks for service?


 I feel the same way about a new car. Wow, can I get one free?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

NoviDave said:


> The flip side is they changed the technology and left their own customers to their own devices. I like the new technology, don't get me wrong, but should we have to invest big bucks for the privledge of paying them more big bucks for service?


This email has worked for other HR10 owners:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1225494#post1225494

- Craig


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