# Dual Buffer thread



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I deleted the "latest word" thread.

Why.... I was corrected by my contact.
I had it wrong, well partially wrong.

Dual Buffers is still on the "feature" list of things that *YOU* as customers, want to see.

VOD is difinatively in the plans, and will utilize the resources of the system.

My interpretations of the conversation, where not 100%.

So bottom line:
No dual buffers yet, but..... since the box can technically do it... It is still a viable future feature to be added.

Sorry for hooply I caused.

Give me a muligan.. Please?


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Muligan.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Translation:

D* knows, Earl knows, we ALL know, that dual live buffers will NOT be coming to the r15 or it's cousins. However, for PR purposes, it's best not to publicly say that. Better to leave it open as a possiblility.

BTW, the same also applies to wishlists.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If it was for PR purposes... this thread wouldn't be here either...


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

FWIW, the NDS Sky+ boxes have never had dual buffers (out since 2001). Nor has any other NDS based DVR...


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If it was for PR purposes... this thread wouldn't be here either...


This has become more like Fox News, we're so "Fair and Balanced". Come to think of it, they're both owned by the same folks. Bring back those days of discussing the down side of the box, there's always room for improvement.

-- Earl (user formerly known as ebonovic) (sometimes known as Bill O'Reilly)


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

...but the "Dual Buffer" thing is coming right? I hope sooner then later. That is what really holding me back. I love to hit pause then go to the next tuner watch a bit then hit pause on that one and go back. 

#1 on my list to have is the "Dual Buffer" then a 30 skip.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm with Que.... It sounds like this product is coming along well. I'm really looking forward to the HR20 but will hold on to my HR10s until the HR20s are at least even with the TiVos. I know we're talking about the SD DVRs but the HD ones will probably be close in functionality.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Que... Well there is already a 30s "slip" now, and that is as close as we are going to get to a 30s skip.

As for the Dual Buffers... as I said.. .it is still on the list of items for consideration, but if you hold your breath, you may turn a few shades of purple before it is here.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Just how many shades so I can get a feel for how long?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

tfederov said:


> Just how many shades so I can get a feel for how long?


Hmmmm Federov and Michigan? Any relation to Sergei?


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

ISWIZ said:


> -- Earl (user formerly known as ebonovic) (sometimes known as Bill O'Reilly)


ROFL.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for the Dual Buffers... as I said.. .it is still on the list of items for consideration, but if you hold your breath, you may turn a few shades of purple before it is here.


 That doesn't sound good. Is it something that's hard to do or just low on there list? If it's a VOD or dual buffer thing. I'd go with dual buffer. I really have no need for VOD at all.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Que said:


> That doesn't sound good. Is it something that's hard to do or just low on there list? If it's a VOD or dual buffer thing. I'd go with dual buffer. I really have no need for VOD at all.


I don't know, but I do know that correcting the current live buffer is higher on their list then implementing a 2nd buffer


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't know, but I do know that correcting the current live buffer is higher on their list then implementing a 2nd buffer


I agree,.................Correcting the current buffer should be a higher priority at this point.


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## gimme5 (Jan 28, 2006)

well, obviously, they cannot implement a second buffer without fixing the current problem first.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Donnie Byrd said:


> I agree,.................Correcting the current buffer should be a higher priority at this point.


I agree, but my question from the first theard still stands. With only on "live" buffer how is it going to choose which one is the live buffer if your recording two programs and nothing afterwards? I assume if you where watching it live it would stay on the one your watching but which buffer would it choose to dump you to if you where watching a show in MYVOD? Would it go back to the station you had been watching last before the two shows started recording or would it randomly pick one stations from the two shows that just recorded? It just seems like fixing the dropping of the buffer and adding dual buffers would go hand and hand so you don't loose either buffer.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I agree, but my question from the first theard still stands. With only on "live" buffer how is it going to choose which one is the live buffer if your recording two programs and nothing afterwards? I assume if you where watching it live it would stay on the one your watching but which buffer would it choose to dump you to if you where watching a show in MYVOD? Would it go back to the station you had been watching last before the two shows started recording or would it randomly pick one stations from the two shows that just recorded? It just seems like fixing the dropping of the buffer and adding dual buffers would go hand and hand so you don't loose either buffer.


Understood.  .............but i guess that "gimme5" plainly stated it better than i did. *"well, obviously, they cannot implement a second buffer without fixing the current problem first."*

I,m all for "dual buffers" as well, but i honestly can't see this happening anytime soon, at least without correcting the shortcomings of the current "90 min. buffer" first. As for me personally, i don't rely on the "current buffer" too much anyway, and can clearly understand the "complaints" of others who do.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Donnie Byrd said:


> Understood.  .............but i guess that "gimme5" plainly stated it better than i did. *"well, obviously, they cannot implement a second buffer without fixing the current problem first."*
> 
> I,m all for "dual buffers" as well, but i honestly can't see this happening anytime soon, at least without correcting the shortcomings of the current "90 min. buffer" first. As for me personally, i don't rely on the "current buffer" too much anyway, and can clearly understand the "complaints" of others who do.


I completely agree, that they should fix the current one first. I just want to know what logic you'd/they'd use with a one buffer system. It just seems like you fix the current buffer and then add the second after you fix the issues with the first, so they don't have to figure out which buffer it will pick after a dual recording. It just seems like it would go hand and hand with the fix of the current buffer, and they'd release them together. I think the dual buffer is a good thing, I don't use it much either but there are times when I'm glad it's there.


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I deleted the "latest word" thread.
> 
> Why.... I was corrected by my contact.
> I had it wrong, well partially wrong.
> ...


"NO SOUP FOR YOU !!! NEXT" 

The "Technically possible" you mention, is that when wi-max is implemnted, that the vod and active would go through that and open up the dual bffers to become live ?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

gimme5 said:


> well, obviously, they cannot implement a second buffer without fixing the current problem first.


Huh? You mean like how they obviously can't sell a DVR that locks up frequently and doesn't always record what you tell it to?

:lol: 
I kid, I kid.....

Seriously, though, what's the alure of two live buffers? I mean, I get you could switch between two live shows without missing anything, but is that a really widely desired thing? Is it mainly some sports-driven need? I don't know abou that stuff.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The dual buffer is a "must-have or I'm leaving DirecTV" for some people.
For others, is something nice to have during certain programming periods (sports for example)

Others.. (Like me), watch 90%+ recorded material and rarely use the live buffer(s), so it isn't "that" big of a deal.

But IMHO, once they correct the current live buffer to not empty out when you go to a record program... IMHO, it is easy to implement the live buffers by start the recording on one, and toggle between the two.


As for Wi-Max.... that is way down the road.. I think the Broadband solution for the R15 (and HR20) is a "general" broadband solution, not specific to Wi-Max. And until "pricing" and specifics about Wi-Max are released... I don't think we can connect the two yet (from a buisness sense)


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The dual buffer is a "must-have or I'm leaving DirecTV" for some people.
> For others, is something nice to have during certain programming periods (sports for example)
> 
> Others.. (Like me), watch 90%+ recorded material and rarely use the live buffer(s), so it isn't "that" big of a deal.
> ...


I was merly asking, whenver wimax or broadband is enabled, that they have no reason to not use the dual live buffers? because then, it frees up that 2nd buffer.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

dtv4metoday said:


> I was merly asking, whenver wimax or broadband is enabled, that they have no reason to not use the dual live buffers? because then, it frees up that 2nd buffer.


 I don't see the connection.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dtv4metoday said:


> I was merly asking, whenver wimax or broadband is enabled, that they have no reason to not use the dual live buffers? because then, it frees up that 2nd buffer.


A lot more goes into it then just that.
But we will need to table that discussion until we see the implementation of the Broadband connection to the units.


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A lot more goes into it then just that.
> But we will need to table that discussion until we see the implementation of the Broadband connection to the units.


what is "the more to it" ? i am curious


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Think about it for a minute....

You have a broadband connection... (be it provided by your own $$$ payment to an ISP, or it is provided by DirecTV for a fee or not for a fee)

So... do you want your broadband connection flooded with VOD transfers?
Do you want an option to disable broadband communication for VOD?
Do you want to ask for a VOD now, to be downloaded over night, or be ready for the weekend?

What if your broadband goes down?
How much of your broadband bandwith do you want to use?

What if you have VOIP, how can you terminate a VOD transfer if it is interfearing with your other usage...

Now lets going into keeping that VOD transfer secure on the public internet.....
then again, let's not.

So it is not as simple as; Plug in RJ-45 and Ethernet adapter and boom you instantly have VOD.


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Think about it for a minute....
> 
> You have a broadband connection... (be it provided by your own $$$ payment to an ISP, or it is provided by DirecTV for a fee or not for a fee)
> 
> ...


ok, i see your point, then add a 3rd tuner dedicated to myvod/active content


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Better yet, go ahead and use both of the tuners that are already there, but only when the box is idle 

Seriously: if the box can't find a few hours a day when it's not being used, then chances are the person using it has no time for VOD anyway 

In fact, it seems like it wouldn't even have to be realtime. Use a whole transponder for two hours in the early morning for this purpose and you could fill up that 60GB in less than a week.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

The problem is that D* wants the stuff it pushes to be available in a particular timeframe. For instance, they have a deal with NBC to make some network and cable shows available within 24 hours of airing, commercial free for 99 cents per episode. They need to keep that second tuner available to ensure that, so forget about a second live buffer.

This also raises the question, however, of what will happen if you schedule two shows to record during the early morning hours. Will the r15 even allow that? Time will tell....


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## gvaughn (Dec 5, 2005)

ad301 said:


> The problem is that D* wants the stuff it pushes to be available in a particular timeframe. For instance, they have a deal with NBC to make some network and cable shows available within 24 hours of airing, commercial free for 99 cents per episode. They need to keep that second tuner available to ensure that, so forget about a second live buffer.
> 
> This also raises the question, however, of what will happen if you schedule two shows to record during the early morning hours. Will the r15 even allow that? Time will tell....


If the DVR won't let the user schedule what he wants to schedule to record because D*TV has it's own "agenda" then it ruins the whole point of a 2-tuner DVR.

"Additional" content should be sent/pulled during off hours and only when not in use. Now "not in use" may be more difficult to define...but if, for example, the channel has NOT been changed for 2+ hours - during afterhours (say after 1 or 2 AM), it's probably safe to assume that the "other" tuner isn't being used and it's ok to be used by the system for additional content. Turning the unit "off" is a sure way to tell the system that it's free to download additional content.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Once they fix the buffer so that it does not clear when you put the unit into standby, I will be willing to start putting my units in standby when I'm not actively watching them. But for now, I leave my R15's on 24/7 so that I can always turn on a tv and have the prior 90 minutes available (I leave them tuned to different news channels).

I would be very upset if the R15 were to change my channel to receive/record a pushed program. It should only receive a push when one tuner (the second, or non-buffered tuner) is completely idle. In other words, the buffered tuner is never idle, so it would only receive a push when you are not recording anything.

Carl


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

Carl, I'm curious. Why don't you just set up a daily record of the news channel rather than leave your box on 24/7? You'd have your news, and the box could do its housekeeping more efficiently.

Just a thought.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Doesn't do much for breaking news. Also, I don't have set times during the day that I switch on the news to watch. It varies, so when I do switch it on, I will frequently scroll back to the nearest hour or half-hour point and catch the headlines, market status, etc. Then I turn the TV off for awhile. Then I might turn it back on a few hours later and do the same thing again.

This is exactly where dual live buffers, even if they were only 30 minutes, would be perfect!

I do record certain newscasts daily. But throughout the day I catch snippits here and there as schedule permits.

Carl


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

walters said:


> Better yet, go ahead and use both of the tuners that are already there, but only when the box is idle
> 
> Seriously: if the box can't find a few hours a day when it's not being used, then chances are the person using it has no time for VOD anyway
> 
> In fact, it seems like it wouldn't even have to be realtime. Use a whole transponder for two hours in the early morning for this purpose and you could fill up that 60GB in less than a week.


I guess it's not that easy. Does everyone want or even needs VOD at all?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Que said:


> I guess it's not that easy. Does everyone want or even needs VOD at all?


The counter question:
Does everyone NOT want or need VOD

For both of those questions... the answer is no.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The counter question:
> Does everyone NOT want or need VOD
> 
> For both of those questions... the answer is no.


But D* wants you to have it, so you WILL get it whether or not you want it OR need it.

Earl,

Question on your conversations with your contact: The dual buffer something they know we want, but is it something they really don't want to give us for some reason. Or is it too big a project for now given the other fixes they need to implement?


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

They're going to have to have it on the HD DVR because everyone that has the TiVo version now will be expecting it when they upgrade to get the MPEG-4 channels.... At least I will.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> But D* wants you to have it, so you WILL get it whether or not you want it OR need it.
> 
> Earl,
> 
> Question on your conversations with your contact: The dual buffer something they know we want, but is it something they really don't want to give us for some reason. Or is it too big a project for now given the other fixes they need to implement?


They know we want it.

As for size of the project, ect.... I don't know.


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