# HP Discontinues WebOS Phones and Tablets.



## bobukcat

I'm just a little surprised that HP didn't give it more time to work but I'm certainly not shocked. It's too bad in a way because it's a better OS than iOS or Android in some aspects, although both have added most of the things that made WebOS better when it was first launched by Palm.

They claim they will continue to explore other opportunities for the OS but I think this marks the final nail in it's coffin. RIP Palm and WebOS.

http://allthingsd.com/20110818/breaking-hp-makes-big-shift-on-webos-exiting-hardware-business/


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## njblackberry

It was dead before this announcement.


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## hilmar2k

The PlayBook won't be far behind (and RIM as a whole if they're not careful).


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## hdtvfan0001

WOW. I thought this would happen...but...NOT THIS FAST.

Posted 2 days ago...


hdtvfan0001 said:


> AMD was left out of the loop, and obviously they are not pleased. The comment about supporting WebOS is particularly revealing and humorous, as many feel *that OS on tablets is already DOA *based on horrible performance speed on the HP tablet - its the hardware. To properly use WebOS (which itself is a good OS), one unfortunately almost needs a Cray Computer to see real performance (OK, an exaggeration).


HP will take quite a bath financially.


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## Tom Robertson

I'm also surprised at the timing, not the outcome. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WOW. I thought this would happen...but...NOT THIS FAST.
> 
> Posted 2 days ago...
> 
> HP will take quite a bath financially.


Sadly this is exactly what about 80% of the "pundits" predicted would happen when HP bought Palm a couple years ago. They let the iPaq line die a slow and miserable death by never really updating the product or bringing significant new features so it was a mystery why they thought they would really do anything significant with Palm / WebOS.


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## bobukcat

Yikes, I just looked at the timeline and it's only been about 13 months since they completed the Palm acquisition - I thought it had been at least 2 years. That $1.2B sure went down the drain quickly!! :eek2:


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## BosFan

Not surprised at all on the WebOS devices but I am a bit shocked they are considering selling off or spinning off the PC side: 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44193385/ns/business-us_business/#.Tk1uyGtvA_g


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## klang

hilmar2k said:


> The PlayBook won't be far behind (and RIM as a whole if they're not careful).


I also think the PlayBook is next.


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## Stuart Sweet

Wow that was fast. I didn't even have a chance to want one.


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## djlong

49 days. 

From product launch to gravesite announcement.

There's a columnist on ZDNet who wants his money back for being an early adopter. After all, we've all bought products that, a year or more later, turned into orphans - but *49 days*? (Specifically referring to HPs WebOS tablet)


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## Cholly

Pity poor Best Buy. According to an article I saw a day or so before the announcement, Best Buy had purchased as many as 270,000 HP TouchPads and sold only 25,000. 
Here's a different article recounting BB's problem: http://allthingsd.com/20110816/ouchpad-best-buy-sitting-on-a-pile-of-unsold-hp-tablets/


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## Stuart Sweet

Best Buy will doubtless dump the tablets to someone like Woot (although probably not Woot, they're owned by Amazon) and they'll flood the internet.


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## phrelin

My daughter has a friend who got three different tablets on his birthday. A couple of weeks ago he offered to sell her the HP unopened for $200 and she told me she wanted to buy it as we've been an HP computer family for awhile (actually my wife and I bought Compaq laptops years ago and when I decided to quit building my own desktops, we went with HP). I am sure glad I said "no" and I hoped she listened to me. If she didn't at least it won't be my fault.

Obviously, I didn't think this WebOS thing was a bright idea even though it sounded good.


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## dennisj00

HP lost my support for Servers, laptops, and desktops shortly after they bought Compaq and they continue the downward spiral. As the worlds largest PC maker, today they announced they're trying to spin off the PC division.

Good luck to the buyer!


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## dpeters11

dennisj00 said:


> HP lost my support for Servers, laptops, and desktops shortly after they bought Compaq and they continue the downward spiral. As the worlds largest PC maker, today they announced they're trying to spin off the PC division.
> 
> Good luck to the buyer!


I still like HP servers, except for one generation of DL385 that you never knew if it would boot from an off state.


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## Phil T

I am glad I dumped them before they dumped me.


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## billsharpe

My HP Pavilion desktop is approaching its sixth birthday, although it's still running well.

Guess I will look elsewhere for a replacement.


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## Davenlr

billsharpe said:


> My HP Pavilion desktop is approaching its sixth birthday, although it's still running well.
> 
> Guess I will look elsewhere for a replacement.


Build your own. Much better performance usually. I use ASUS, AMD, NVidia, and good ram. Machines fly.


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## klang

dpeters11 said:


> I still like HP servers, except for one generation of DL385 that you never knew if it would boot from an off state.


Had mostly good luck with their servers also, as well as their ProCurve switches.

One darn DL580 every couple weeks would just power off for no apparent reason. I swear HP replaced almost everything inside but we never figured out what was wrong with it.


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## Steve

Sounds to me like the hope is to keep webOS alive via licensing deals, but HP wants nothing to do with the tablet and smartphone building side of the business.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/the-engadget-interview-hps-stephen-dewitt-discusses-the-state/


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## kiknwing

Looks like HP is now dumping these for $100
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3220862


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## phrelin

Davenlr said:


> Build your own. Much better performance usually. I use ASUS, AMD, NVidia, and good ram. Machines fly.


I used to do that. But after my wife and I retired it just got to difficult around the house - if you build them it seems even virus and worms are your responsibility, if you know what I mean.


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## hdtvfan0001

It seems the "fire sales" abound at multiple sites as of this morning...

Unless someone picks up the OS for future improvements/keep up with OS changes specific to this tablet...these will simply become nice looking serving trays...regardless of the price.


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## TBlazer07

Apple must be doing the happy dance. 1 down 2 to go.


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## hdtvfan0001

TBlazer07 said:


> Apple must be doing the happy dance. 1 down 2 to go.


As is Google...their tablets are selling in growing numbers....

RIM is the next likely "challenged"...


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## billsharpe

kiknwing said:


> Looks like HP is now dumping these for $100
> http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3220862


Both 16 and 32 gb models out-of-stock at HP site as of this morning.


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## Steve

billsharpe said:


> Both 16 and 32 gb models out-of-stock at HP site as of this morning.


Not surprising. They'll make great portable browser-ebook-media players.


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## klang

Steve said:


> Not surprising. They'll make great portable browser-ebook-media players.


Doesn't look like Kindle or Nook has an app for it.


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## Steve

klang said:


> Doesn't look like Kindle or Nook has an app for it.


There is a Kindle app. It just wasn't available at launch, as promised. I think it supports PDF as well.


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## klang

Steve said:


> There is a Kindle app. It just wasn't available at launch, as promised. I think it supports PDF as well.


Weird, I was going by this page at Amazon. Guess they haven't updated that page yet.


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## Herdfan

Heard a rumor today that B&H Photo is going to dump their inventory for $100/150 starting tonight.

I was in BB today and they have sent all theirs back and BB is going to sell them online only.


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## dpeters11

Looks like people that bought them from HP or Best Buy can return them for a full refund.


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## Cholly

Herdfan said:


> Heard a rumor today that B&H Photo is going to dump their inventory for $100/150 starting tonight.
> 
> I was in BB today and they have sent all theirs back and BB is going to sell them online only.


This just in from PCMag.com -- Best Buy has changed their mind :lol:
They now will sell TouchPads in stores as available at the discounted price.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391466,00.asp


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## TBlazer07

Cholly said:


> This just in from PCMag.com -- Best Buy has changed their mind :lol:
> They now will sell TouchPads in stores as available at the discounted price.
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391466,00.asp


HP had all their smartphones for $49 as well. Wanted to pick one up for my wife but they all say sold out. $99 for the TP is great if you just want a portable internet and email device. I'll bet a 3rd party hacking community will appear that will end up loading Android on it.


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## Marlin Guy

B&N showing in stock as of this AM.
I just ordered two.


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## klang

This article suggests the HP TouchPad fire sale may be bad news for the other Android tablets.


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## hdtvfan0001

The latest word is that one developer is putting the final touches on an Android kernel for the HP Tablet.

It is not know how well it will run, nor what standard Android v3.2 capabilities will be supported...it won't address the 1.6 pound weight of the tablet of course.


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## Steve

klang said:


> This article suggests the HP TouchPad fire sale may be bad news for the other Android tablets.


The Touchpad knocked the Kindle out of first place as the top-selling electronics product on Amazon! :lol: And you can't find a discounted Touchpad on Amazon, BTW!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers


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## Marlin Guy

Imagine being the people who bought one within the previous week or so and paid full price.


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## klang

Marlin Guy said:


> Imagine being the people who bought one within the previous week or so and paid full price.


All three of them? :lol:

Pretty sure I saw somewhere HP is going to refund the difference to the fire sale price for those folks.


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## Herdfan

Marlin Guy said:


> Imagine being the people who bought one within the previous week or so and paid full price.


Looks like HP will be giving refunds:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/HP-Gives-Money-Back-to-Early-TouchPad-Buyers-217752.shtml

Edit: klang beat me to it, but I had a link.


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## sideswipe

TBlazer07 said:


> HP had all their smartphones for $49 as well. Wanted to pick one up for my wife but they all say sold out. $99 for the TP is great if you just want a portable internet and email device. I'll bet a 3rd party hacking community will appear that will end up loading Android on it.


I picked up 1 for the wife, didn't find any online & only 1 anywhere in my area yesterday, 32gb @ Radioshack for $149, basically its just what you said a portable internet/email/facebook device for her. Also yes there are people @ work on a TouchDroid


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## HDJulie

I may end up with 5 of these :-0. I ordered 3 32GB through HP's site yesterday. I didn't intend to order 3 but that's how many were in my cart when I was finally able to complete a transaction. I emailed them this morning to cancel the order but they may not get the email in time. I have a 16GB ordered through Amazon that is supposed to be shipping soon but I had a heck of a time ordering it so I'm not positive. It kept going in & out of stock while I was trying to order. Then, Barnes & Noble put them on sale yesterday afternoon so I ordered another 16GB from them that supposedly went through but this morning at 6:30 CST I checked the site & it said the order could not be processed & to call this number. I've been trying all day & the number hangs up on you. So, I might get 5, I might get 0, or I might get some number in between . Let me know if anyone is interested in one if I get more than 1. I'll gladly pass it on for what I paid plus whatever shipping costs.


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## Steve

If you do get 'em, Julie, here's two takes on 10 things to do with them!

http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_new...things-to-do-with-a-100-touchpad?preview=true

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391500,00.asp


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## HDJulie

Man, that's just sad, isn't it, what little can be done with them?


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## Marlin Guy

Check the current prices at TigerDirect.com :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

For those folks rushing out to get an HP Tablet (at bargain prices) with the hope of the rumored launch of an Android OS version on that device...

...I've heard from 2 sources today that the first coding is underway and targeting a Sept availability...however...it will be a Gingerbread release version (v2.3), as opposed to the current Honeycomb (v3.x) release series. That was disappointing news...as I was hoping for them to successfully join the Android tablet momentum.

With the Ice Cream Sandwich(v4.x) expected within 6-8 weeks...its quite possible that any near-term Android firmware for the HP Tablet will not support some of the hardware features of its native OS, and also be a year behind in other capabilities. 

In short - if you want a heavy (1.6 lb) Internet browser or reader device...its a good deal. For those looking for more...its quite "iffy" at this time.


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## Steve

HDJulie said:


> Man, that's just sad, isn't it, what little can be done with them?


:scratchin

Compare it to the popular Color Nook at $249. At $99, it's a steal, IMHO, if you don't already have a tablet. E-mail, e-books, web browsing, video, audio, video. Lots to do with it.


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## HIPAR

Do they still make frequency counters, signal generators, spectrum analyzers and voltage meters?

That's the HP I remember. The company that began in a garage.

--- CHAS


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## klang

HIPAR said:


> Do they still make frequency counters, signal generators, spectrum analyzers and voltage meters?
> 
> That's the HP I remember. The company that began in a garage.
> 
> --- CHAS


That was spun off in 1999 as Agilent Technologies.


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## sigma1914

So, can these be purchased anymore for the cheap price?


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## hdtvfan0001

HDJulie said:


> Man, that's just sad, isn't it, *what little can be done with them*?


Johnny has your answer 24 seconds into this video...


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## HDJulie

sigma1914 said:


> So, can these be purchased anymore for the cheap price?


Not that I know if unless I end up with 5 ;-0

And, a hat or a broach, huh.


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## hdtvfan0001

HDJulie said:


> Not that I know if unless I end up with 5 ;-0
> 
> And, a hat or a broach, huh.


Pretty much. :lol:


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## sideswipe

sigma1914 said:


> So, can these be purchased anymore for the cheap price?


reports are showing them comming and going in/out of stock on numerous websites, also rumors there is going to be a 2nd wave of the "fire sale"


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## sideswipe

the incentive to get android up and running now comes with a reward up to $1500 it will be nice to have a 32gb Android tablet for only $150, but if not still think its nice for what it will be used for


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## Steve

PCMag picked some Touchpad apps they like today. There are apps for Facebook, Twitter, weather, radio, text processing, e-books, local search and a few games.


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## Steve

Box.Net is still offering a free 50GB of *lifetime* cloud storage to HP Touchpad owners!

http://betanews.com/2011/08/22/even...-touchpads-still-get-50gb-free-cloud-storage/


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## hdtvfan0001

It will be interesting to watch how quickly the WebOS-to-Android migration happens on the HP Tablet.

On the encouraging side, there seems to be a pretty good "underground network" of folks trying to get the old Gingerbread OS (v2.3) working (first). 

After that, it'll take another update to Honeycomb (v3.2), and then Ice Cream Sandwich (v4.x - which is scheduled for release to existing Android tablets 4Q - likely late October). 

That's alot of OS development work (unfunded) to get them up to speed to run many of the current generation Android apps. I personally hope they are successful - both in terms of having those folks who got one get more use from them, as well as having users join the Android tablet community.

Then again...at bargain basement prices...folks can at least get some use out of them as-is on WebOS for a while if they so choose.


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## kiknwing

sideswipe said:


> the incentive to get android up and running now comes with a reward up to $1500 it will be nice to have a 32gb Android tablet for only $150, but if not still think its nice for what it will be used for


Now over $2,100


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## sideswipe

Android 2.2 via Qualcomm looks to be the winner - already updated on rootwiki - video on Engadget


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## bidger

You need to fix your Endgadget link since it links to Steve's post about Box.net in this very thread.


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## sideswipe

lol thanks, fixed


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## bidger

And thanks for fixing.


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## Steve

sideswipe said:


> Android 2.2 via Qualcomm looks to be the winner - already updated on rootwiki - video on Engadget


And I might want this because... ?

I ask because if I owned one, I'd rather run apps designed for the Touchpad's display and feature set, rather than apps designed for smartphones. Ya there are fewer native webOS apps available, but the ones I can run probably offer a much higher quality user experience, no?


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## sideswipe

Steve totally I love webOS as it is now but if things do not go forward from HP/webOS/or whoever with upgrades & more apps than having android will totally make it worthwhile & expand its lifespan over the native OS it has now.


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## Steve

sideswipe said:


> Steve totally I love webOS as it is now but if things do not go forward from HP/webOS/or whoever with upgrades & more apps than having android will totally make it worthwhile & expand its lifespan over the native OS it has now.


Good you're sticking with it. Looks like another webOS update will be forthcoming:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/30/hp-touchpad-will-receive-ota-udpate-for-added-functionality/

Just rumors yesterday about Samsung and webOS, but it certainly makes sense, as a hedge for Samsung against Googorola:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/samsung-may-buy-webos-recruits-former-hp-exec/


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## hdtvfan0001

The app developers may not join in the WebOS ride for the HP Tablet.

That is what is driving most of the development frenzy to have an Android OS version for it. 

Once Android v4.x (aka Ice Cream Sandwich) is out in the next couple of months, and it runs on all Android devices...this will likely further drive app developers to adopt that standard.

While the 3 main "issues" with the HP Tablet were the slow WebOS performance. lack of mainstream apps, and weight of the unit...only 1 of those 3 appear to be targeted with this latest WebOS tablet update.


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## Steve

In case anyone missed this...


> The original six free app promotion for the HP TouchPad was so popular that the promo codes were used up in no time after the promotion was announced. In light of this, HP has released promo codes for six new apps for those folks who managed to get their hands on a TouchPad. [*more*]


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## Steve

From today's PCMag:


> Gadget enthusiasts waiting for their chance to snap up a heavily discounted HP TouchPad will have to wait a bit longer. The company is still waiting on details about whether or not it even has more tablets to go around.
> 
> "We will have more information available in the next few days about whether or not more will be available and if so, what the details will be about the situation," HP said in a Q&A posted on its blog. [*more*]


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## klang

Steve said:


> Just rumors yesterday about Samsung and webOS, but it certainly makes sense, as a hedge for Samsung against Googorola:
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/samsung-may-buy-webos-recruits-former-hp-exec/


That would be an interesting development. I'm sure the non-Moto Android phone and tablet makers are searching for some sort of Plan B.

The real game changer would be Amazon selecting webOS for their tablet. (no I'm not suggesting they will)


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## Steve

klang said:


> That would be an interesting development. I'm sure the non-Moto Android phone and tablet makers are searching for some sort of Plan B.


What lends some credence to the rumors is that Samsung is hedging their bet on the phone side, with their Bada platform. They're only shipping it in Asian markets right now, but Bada phone shipments accounted for 1.9% of all phone shipments world-wide in the second quarter. By comparison, world-wide WP7 phone shipments were 1.7%!

*EDIT:* Looks like Bada's coming to Sweden in Q4. Probably bad news for Nokia and WP7. It's a nice looking phone: http://www.pcworld.com/article/239111/samsung_launches_bada_phones_with_chaton_service.html



> The real game changer would be Amazon selecting webOS for their tablet.


If so, that would be one helluva well-kept secret! :lol:


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## Steve

Posted on BetaNews a few minutes ago:



> Demand for the TouchPad was so high that it sold completely out within days of its discontinuation, and there were simply more people looking for TouchPads than there were TouchPads.
> 
> So Today, HP announced it will be producing "one last run" of TouchPads during the fourth fiscal quarter of 2011 (ends on October 31st) to meet the unfulfilled demand. It did not say how many would be made, or when they would be available, but they are primarily to fill orders and inquiries that were made during the "TouchPad Gold Rush", but there will be more left for others to buy. [*more*]


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## bfrosty

there is a port to Android for the HP so 99 bucks for the hardware isn't a bad deal. they will make great Home automation control stations.


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## Steve

bfrosty said:


> there is a port to Android for the HP so 99 bucks for the hardware isn't a bad deal. they will make great Home automation control stations.


If the Amazon tabs are as cheap as people think they'll be, and HP prices the new run at the same $99/$149 as the last batch, I have a feeling there will be lots of cheap tablets available soon that were designed to run Android from day one.

As I posted this in a different thread earlier today, according to today's Fast Company, only 10%-15% of the Android tablets that have shipped to date have been sold, which means ~ 4 million are just sitting on store shelves right now, based on the reported Samsung (2.5 million) and Acer (2 million) shipping numbers alone.


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## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> If the Amazon tabs are as cheap as people think they'll be, and HP prices the new run at the same $99/$149 as the last batch, I have a feeling there will be lots of cheap tablets available soon that were designed to run Android from day one.
> 
> As I posted this in a different thread earlier today, according to today's Fast Company, *only 10%-15% of the Android tablets that have shipped to date have been sold, which means ~ 4 million are just sitting on store shelves right now, based on the reported Samsung (2.5 million) and Acer (2 million) shipping numbers alone*.


Fact is those stats are grossly misleading and missing key data.

Samsung has only been out in the mainstream market 90 days. Acer tablets have been out a bit longer, and sold about 650,000.

The ASUS Transformer is the largest selling Android tablet to date - with over 1.1 million shipped and 900,000+ sold.

Most important is that all Android tablets, including the Xoom, have shipped over 9 million units combined, with an estimated 6 million sold.

Since the average Android tablet has been out there < 6months....those numbers are still impressive. In addition, more than 75% of the sales have been within the past 90 days...so momentum is building. If the estimates of the pending Amazon Android tablet are even 1/2 of expected - you can add 4-5 million more by the end of the year just for those.

That would mean by year end - the first year of Android tablets being mainstream (and not even a full year for most models) - the totals will well exceed 10 million SOLD units.

So much for stats.


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## klang

Don't see any actual data in there so it must just be opinion?


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## Steve

klang said:


> Don't see any actual data in there so it must just be opinion?


Fast Company attributed the 10%-15% "sales vs. shipment" estimates to a report released yesterday by Forrester analyst Sarah Rottman Epps. I believe it's this one, but I'm not gonna spend $499 to find out! I can buy another tablet for that!  (or 5 HP's! :lol


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Don't see any actual data in there so it must just be opinion?


Some folks happen to have immediate family working in the industry and see the direct manufacturer stats. The stats shown by Fast Company reflect 2Q 2011 "estimated" shipments and sales - when most of the Android tablets were just launching - they are obsolete. The most significant Android tablet sales happened after May 1.

Believe what you want...I prefer the facts.


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## hdtvfan0001

Looks like one more batch of the $99 HP tablets being made (likely to clear out warehouse inventories and what was started on assembly line benches), and then the tablet officially becomes an orphan. 

Conflicting reports state this last batch will be out anywhere from next week to three weeks from now, for those still looking to pick one up.


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## klang

Steve said:


> Fast Company attributed the 10%-15% "sales vs. shipment" estimates to a report released yesterday by Forrester analyst Sarah Rottman Epps. I believe it's this one, but I'm not gonna spend $499 to find out! I can buy another tablet for that!  (or 5 HP's! :lol


Yes, since the HP's announcement of the demise of the TouchPad there have been numerous stories in the press about the lack of actual sales numbers for Android tablets. Wonder why it is only Apple announcing sales numbers?


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## Steve

klang said:


> Yes, since the HP's announcement of the demise of the TouchPad there have been numerous stories in the press about the lack of actual sales numbers for Android tablets. Wonder why it is only Apple announcing sales numbers?


Probably because no one likes to admit their product isn't flying off the shelves.

My. 02? I think the whole first wave of Android tablets will be heavily discounted next month, or we'll see more and more deals like the Staples' _"$100 of any tablet"_ or Best Buy's _"buy a Sammy TV at retail, and get a free Galaxy tab"_.

Once all that inventory gets cleared out, we'll then see a bunch next gen tablets announced for the fourth quarter with more competitive pricing, including the Amazon tablet. For those manufacturers that can't subsidize tablet prices with e-commerce or advertising, though, I'm not sure how they'll be able to keep build quality high _and_ lower prices. :scratchin

And no matter what, I'm pretty sure the entire industry (Apple, Amazon and B&N included) isn't pleased with the prospect of more $99 TouchPads flooding the market, assuming they're going to be sold for that price again.


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## klang

Steve said:


> And no matter what, I'm pretty sure the entire industry (Apple, Amazon and B&N included) isn't pleased with the prospect of more $99 TouchPads flooding the market, assuming they're going to be sold for that price again.


That part makes no sense to me. Assuming HP is loosing a few hundred bucks on each, they are now going to increase the losses by producing more?


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## Steve

klang said:


> That part makes no sense to me. Assuming HP is loosing a few hundred bucks on each, they are now going to increase the losses by producing more?


I'm guessing they're sitting on a lot of manufacturing parts inventory, and the bean counters have figured out there's some tax advantage to building them and selling them at a loss. Must be something like that, or the HP shareholders would be up in arms.

Just grasping for an explanation that fits the facts.


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Yes, since the HP's announcement of the demise of the TouchPad there have been numerous stories in the press about the lack of actual sales numbers for Android tablets. Wonder why it is only Apple announcing sales numbers?


People only see what they want to see...

http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/04/asus-may-sell-2-million-tablets-this-year/

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20081366-243/ipad-share-of-tablet-shipments-fell-in-second-quarter-says-report/

Apple has "their facts" and others have theirs...

What is clear is they don't match.


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## klang

Shipments, not sales. That is what the media has been questioning. I guess the media doesn't have access to all the 'secret data'. :lol:


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## Herdfan

Rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2011/08/31/hewlett-packard-temporarily-revives-touchpad/

Ok, maybe not, but at least it looks like they will be making some more.


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Shipments, not sales. That is what the media has been questioning. I guess the media doesn't have access to all the 'secret data'. :lol:


Manufacturers tend to release sales data about a quarter after they are totalled...but ASUS stats show that they have sold out many of their retailers repeatedly the past 3 months, including Best Buy, Amazon, and about 12 others. These are actually tracked on a company website (secure) that display sold and needed inventories.

There was a point about 90 days ago you couldn't even get some of the Android tablets in stock anywhere..they couldn't make them fast enough. I'm most familiar with the largest selling Android tablet (ASUS) because of direct access to data...and they *sold* over 700,000 in one quarter, and the pace accelerated the following month...so trends are up.

Alot of these stats depend on when they are taken and how far behind the recorded transactions they are. They're all "snapshots" basically depending upon the specific date reported.

The dark horse, of course, is Amazon...with their pending Android private-labeled tablet. Depending on their pricing...they could surpass all of the other 20+ manufacturers offering Android-based tablets. Add in the momentum the Android 4.x (Ice Cream Sandwich) release will bring...and a new snapshot will likely be needed about February to get a better idea of *real* market share.

As the reports I linked previously showed though... Android's market share is growing (in double digits). If that continues remains to be seen.

Going full circle on topic....the HP Touchpad was always a wild card, as their marketing power is strong enough to gain penetration too. Unfortunately, they stumbled in with a product that was heavy and slow, and did not really distinguish itself in any real manner (including price)...so it flopped.

As soon as the prices dropped to ridiculously low numbers...people gobbled them up despite its shortcomings..many with the intent to flash them to an Android kernel/OS. That work is still underway.


----------



## klang

From the WSJ:










Really glad I don't own any HP stock directly.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Shipments, not sales. That is what the media has been questioning. I guess the media doesn't have access to all the 'secret data'. :lol:


'Secret data'? :scratchin


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> 'Secret data'? :scratchin


Proprietary sales data.


----------



## djlong

Another possibility is the 'value' of WebOS. If they lose five million dollars putting out more TouchPads BUT then can sell off WebOS for TEN million more than it would have gotten before - well, that's how you increase the value of an asset you still have.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> Probably because no one likes to admit their product isn't flying off the shelves.
> 
> My. 02? I think the whole first wave of Android tablets will be heavily discounted next month, or we'll see more and more deals like the Staples' _"$100 of any tablet"_ or Best Buy's _"buy a Sammy TV at retail, and get a free Galaxy tab"_.
> 
> Once all that inventory gets cleared out, *we'll then see a bunch next gen tablets announced for the fourth quarter with more competitive pricing,* including the Amazon tablet. For those manufacturers that can't subsidize tablet prices with e-commerce or advertising, though, I'm not sure how they'll be able to keep build quality high _and_ lower prices. :scratchin
> 
> And no matter what, I'm pretty sure the entire industry (Apple, Amazon and B&N included) isn't pleased with the prospect of more $99 TouchPads flooding the market, assuming they're going to be sold for that price again.


Thanks to the lessons learned from the HP fire sale, it may be happening sooner than expected! :eek2: I'll bet Amazon's not pleased. :lol:



> *Lenovo Heats up Price War With $199 IdeaPad Tablet*
> 
> Lenovo announced a new US$199 IdeaPad tablet with a 7-inch screen and Google's Android OS in response to the surge in demand for inexpensive tablets, the company said on Thursday.
> 
> The IdeaPad A1 tablet weighs around 400 grams (0.88 pounds) and is under 0.5 inches (1.27 centimeters) thick, and will become available in specific starting around the end of September, said Nick Reynolds, executive director of global marketing at Lenovo. The tablet provides seven hours of battery life. [*more*]


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Thanks to the lessons learned from the HP fire sale, it may be happening sooner than expected! :eek2: I'll bet Amazon's not pleased. :lol:


I'm sure Amazon already had a much lower price point than the Apple tablet and even many Androids out there today anyway, but yes, lowball pricing makes anyone burp.

Then again the HP tablet is currently an limited-function orphan...so at any price...its not comparible to others in most ways. People will realize that quickly.


----------



## Steve

djlong said:


> Another possibility is the 'value' of WebOS. If they lose five million dollars putting out more TouchPads BUT then can sell off WebOS for TEN million more than it would have gotten before - well, that's how you increase the value of an asset you still have.


Yup. The Aug 1 update that _should_ have been the initial shipping version of webOS addressed some of the early concerns with the tablet's performance, and apparently HP will continue to polish it, in spite of discontinuing the tablet!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20099049-64/hp-update-to-boost-touchpad-functionality/

http://tablets-planet.com/2011/08/30/hp-touchpad-will-get-a-new-webos-update-soon-hp-rep/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

HP's public and actual news keeps chaging almost daily on the Touchpad - the latest (internal) info is that HP will support only 1 more update to the HP Touchpad kernel for WebOS....maybe a couple of interim patches thereafter.

As for Android conversions...that entire concept floundering...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20103726-64/android-on-hp-touchpad-hits-snag/?tag=mncol;title

I guess $99 for a web browser and/or book reader isn't bad though.


----------



## trdrjeff

I picked up a 32GB model for $150, even if it didn't work out as a tablet for me I figured I could use it as a media player for the kids in the back seat with the 8 hours of battery life. A week later I went ahead and got another for the misses  She really liked it and can get her People magazine on it which made her real happy. Typing on it is much better than I expected, and the speed is good once you turn off the logging and run the Uberkernel.

Like I said I wasn't real sure how I would use it or need it, but it is nice to have for couch surfing while watching TV. The lack of future support from HP is concerning but there is a decent _homebrew_ community and though there's been a lot of Android port drama I think that will get ironed out eventually. Right now I'm not in a hurry to change the OS. It is a great interface and pretty solid. The lack of a large Apps catalog is it's main downfall.


----------



## Steve

trdrjeff said:


> [...] Right now I'm not in a hurry to change the OS. It is a great interface and pretty solid. The lack of a large Apps catalog is it's main downfall.


By reports I've seen, webOS is in pretty good shape after the August update. And according to this, you're in for at least one more round of polishing, so you should be in great shape going forward. :up:

In case you use it and missed this, I noticed their "QuickOffice" app was updated to support Word and Excel files.


----------



## bobnielsen

News about the additional supply has been pretty scarce.


----------



## Steve

bobnielsen said:


> News about the additional supply has been pretty scarce.


Will be interesting to see if Ms. Whitman feels differently about webOS or HP's PC business than her predecessor.


----------



## klang

Stories a couple days ago said HP had already started getting rid of the staff that had been working on webOS.


----------



## bobnielsen

I received an email ad from rapidbuyr.com this morning featuring the 16 GB Touchpad at $99. After several hours of trying (not continuously) I was able to get into their website and there were none available. I wonder how many they had?


----------



## Steve

Just went to MLB.com to check the Yankee box score, and up pops a TouchPad ad! :eek2: :lol:


----------



## trdrjeff

Cyanogenmod team has an all in one installer working to get a dualboot of CM7 & WebOS working. Sounds like they are about 2-3 weeks from releasing a stable version for the TP 

http://t.co/LM4djzzO


----------



## Steve

> We released a new software release (3.0.4) for the HP Touchpad a few minutes ago. It gets downloaded over the air and is automatically updated to your devices. As always, no strings attached. Enjoy.
> 
> We have a big number of TouchPads out there, and we wanted to continue serving users and developers. We improved performance, added better support for the camera, made connectivity with non-HP phones possible, improved messaging, touched the UI in many places, etc. Also, we've got over 1000 applications available for TouchPad through Application Catalogue.
> 
> [*more*]


The last batch of tablets are shipping as well. They were oversold, so I imagine a lot of folks will be disappointed.


----------



## trdrjeff

I've got the second Alpha of CM7 on mine now, couldn't be happier about the 100 or 1000x increased in market apps.


----------



## Steve

_"Anyone who buys a Compaq laptop, desktop, or all-in-one computer will also be provided with the option to purchase the 32GB TouchPad for $150. The 16GB model is sold out and will not be available. The offer excludes netbooks, as well as computers sold via the BestBuy.com Marketplace, or those that are refurbished, in an open box, or from a Best Buy outlet center."

[*more*]_


----------



## HDJulie

trdrjeff said:


> I've got the second Alpha of CM7 on mine now, couldn't be happier about the 100 or 1000x increased in market apps.


Can you point me to instructions on how to install Android on the Touchpad? And does the Android version come with a Bluetooth DUN profile so that the Touchpad could connect to a laptop via Bluetooth & share an Internet connection?


----------



## kiknwing

HDJulie said:


> Can you point me to instructions on how to install Android on the Touchpad? And does the Android version come with a Bluetooth DUN profile so that the Touchpad could connect to a laptop via Bluetooth & share an Internet connection?


I found and used the instructions on xda-developers. I don't know if DUN is included.


----------



## HDJulie

I have a link to a website called IT Reviews that has instructions. I'll look for the xda-developers site & see if they are any different.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

Looks like HP is trying to undo the crappy actions by their former CIO. They've now decided to continue their PC line.


----------



## Skarzon

Yep, the PC business is back in and WebOS is in a holding pattern. HP transferred the WebOS hardware team to other rolls within HP, but they still have the entire WebOS software division in tact.


----------



## HDJulie

I hope they come out with more updates & there are more apps created for WebOS.


----------



## Steve

Apparently it's not dead yet. According to this piece in *betanews*, Ms. Whitman is quoted as saying: _"it's really important to me to make the right decision, not the fast decision"._

The article mentions 5 possible webOS scenarios, only one of which is shutting it down.

http://betanews.com/2011/11/09/what-should-meg-whitman-do-with-webos/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Slow decisions = missed opportunity in many cases.

1) The HP tablets were already seen by many reviewers and customers as subpar in construction and component quality.

2) WebOS is seen as clunky running on inferior hardware - it takes more horsepower than the HP Touchpad has to really utilize WebOS' power. It's actually an above-average OS...but not running on the Touchpad at this time.

3) The uncertainly HP has built to date sets a risky precedent for partners supporting the platform in the future.

4) Every day they miss re-introducing the Touchpad...many hundreds of iPads and Android tablets will be bought instead. Over a month...its many thousands of consumers moving to alternative products. 

5) New Android models are coming out, and the momentum that the Kindle Fire will bring will further pull buyers towars those products and away from Touchpads.


----------



## kiknwing

Just got a survey from hp on the touchpad/web os. I don't see to many companies asking about discontinued products so maybe it's not dead yet.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I think HP's got enough money that they can slow down and decide what to do with webOS. Maybe it will turn into a development platform for IP-enabled washing machines. You never know.


----------



## dualsub2006

"kiknwing" said:


> Just got a survey from hp on the touchpad/web os. I don't see to many companies asking about discontinued products so maybe it's not dead yet.


webOS is dead to me. I still have my Pre+ as my secondary phone/MiFi, but I'm done holding out hope that webOS will ever be more than a fantasy.

It's a shame because even running on the gimped hardware webOS is far and away the best mobile OS that I've ever used.


----------



## Juanus

dualsub2006 said:


> It's a shame because even running on the gimped hardware webOS is far and away the best mobile OS that I've ever used.


I just wanted to repeat that. I just got an iPhone 4s for business and its not even close to my 2 year old Pre. Using my iPhone makes me hate HP more and more for being so stupid.


----------



## Skarzon

HP releases their Year End Financials on Monday, hoping to hear more about the future of WebOS then.


----------



## trdrjeff

I'm pretty shocked at the prices these are now getting on ebay. I'm almost tempted to sell mine for a Xoom...


----------



## Steve

NPD just released tablet sales numbers for January-October 2011. Excluding iPads and Nook Colors, 1.2 million tablets were sold, and guess who was #1? So it looks like HP sold just north of 200,000 TouchPads.


HP -- 17 percent
Samsung -- 16 percent
ASUS -- 10 percent
Motorola -- 9 percent
Acer -- 9 percent

The *Nook Color* was _not _included in the study.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> NPD just released tablet sales numbers for January-October 2011. Excluding iPads and Nook Colors, 1.2 million tablets were sold, and guess who was #1? So it looks like HP sold just north of 200,000 TouchPads.
> 
> 
> HP -- 17 percent
> Samsung -- 16 percent
> ASUS -- 10 percent
> Motorola -- 9 percent
> Acer -- 9 percent
> 
> The *Nook Color* was _not _included in the study.


Interesting stats.

The stats in the NPD report conflict with other reports I've seen though...whereby over 3.8 million tablets from the sum of those manufacturers. I also wonder about the accuracy, in that ASUS tablets alone shipped 1.15 million units and sold over 905K tablets YTD, and HP only had 6% of the market according to internal distributor sales reports my wife gets through work.

Samsung supposedly shipped 975K units and sold about 800K of their tablets YTD. Those figures are through 10/31/11. November is expected to see a large jump in Android tablet sales due to promotions (such as the 50-per-store Best Buy Black Friday deal on ASUS tablets and 2 other retailers also promoting/discounting the same devices).

These are just a few of the reports that contradict the stats above...my point being...it all comes down to what numbers one gets and/or wants to believe. There are all sorts of *conflicting reports*.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2392422,00.asp

The iPad sales marketshare has dropped from 94.6% in January 2011 to 61.3% as of 10/31/11. Without the release of the iPad3 coming before next year some time, as well as the imminent release of several popular 2nd generation Android tablets in December, that trend is expected to continue.

Overall, the tablet market is growing and healthy, with 17 million units in total sales for 2011. The growth over the next 4 years is anticipated to skyrocket.


----------



## Steve

Thought I'd survey who's using what here. TIA for voting.


----------



## Steve

Depending on how free this license is to use, it may have a profound impact on the landscape of the smartphone/tablet market in the long term. I guess the question is how freely will HP allow others to use their patents.

No matter, seems to me like good news for HP webOS tablet owners. :up:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/hp-webos-enyo-app-framework-goes-open-source/65117?tag=nl.e589

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...able_as_an_undefined_open_source_project.html


----------



## Steve

From slashgear:



> HP's restarted TouchPad fire sale saw eBay brought to its knees on Sunday, as desperate bargain-hunters swamped the auction site and payments provider PayPal in the hope of scooping a $99 tablet. The deal - announced last week - kicked off at 7pm EST with the 16GB TouchPad at $99 and the 32GB model at $149. Unsurprisingly, the cheaper model was gone within minutes.


----------



## Steve

More details on last week's announcement by HP they were keeping webOS alive. Looks like they're going to re-enter the tablet market at some point, but have no appetite for smartphones ATM.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/9/2624209/meg-whitman-marc-andreessen-web-os-open-source-interview

They are also going to fully open source webOS and Enyo (the webOS developer toolkit), but they'll need to first find open source replacements for some of the code. I'm guessing that's code HP/Palm licensed from third parties.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Depending on how free this license is to use, *it may have a profound impact on the landscape of the smartphone/tablet market *in the long term. I guess the question is how freely will HP allow others to use their patents.


Profound? Hardly.

1) Developers will be gunshy based on being suddenly left in the cold once before.

2) Developers are focussed on the iOS and Android markets, as they create revenue streams wiht substantial numbers os existing and future adopters.

3) The investment in app development, as well as hardware by other manufacturers likely warrants the "profound" label in contrast to what HP has done and is doing.

4) HP lost a ton of credibility in the market.


----------



## Juanus

I am a huge WebOS fan. I had a pre from day one and I have two touchpads. The WebOS operating system is far superior to iOS and Android. Now with that said, it's dead. HP killed it and its really a shame. Making it open source is just another way of saying, "We are going to pretend like we care, but really we just don't want to give it away in case someone wants to give us a few nickels."

iOS is really not that good or revolutionary. It's the Apps. Third parties build apps for iOS and that makes it look cool. Apple has nothing to do with that. If all the OSes had the same apps, this would be a different story all around. Developers are not going to code for WebOS anymore. Why waste time on a dead horse?

I am a WebOS fan and I am sad to see it go.


----------



## Steve

Juanus said:


> I am a WebOS fan and I am sad to see it go.


HP is planning to keep the webOS division alive, so it's not going anywhere yet. 

Once HP does what it needs to do to open source it, besides the user community that will put it on their existing tablets, I think we'll see Android and Windows tablet manufacturers offering webOS versions of the same hardware to avoid paying either the "Microsoft Android tax" or Windows licensing fees. I wouldn't be surprised to see some go exclusively webOS.


----------



## Juanus

Steve,

You are much more optimistic than I am. But I appreciate you keeping hope alive. I love WebOS, but the future looks bleak.


----------



## Steve

Juanus said:


> Steve,
> 
> You are much more optimistic than I am. But I appreciate you keeping hope alive. I love WebOS, but the future looks bleak.


Ya. It's pure speculation on my part, but let's talk again a year from now! 

I'm sure Google is most displeased by this development. It was bad enough in 2012 they'll have to compete with Fire, Nook, iOS and Windows 8 for tablet mindshare. Now there is one more formidable competitor looming! :lol:

Assuming it ever was for sale, I was expecting Google to buy webOS from HP "for the patents" and then shut it down to forestall more competition. Perhaps the asking price was too high.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> I'm sure Google is most displeased by this development. It was bad enough in 2012 they'll have to compete with Fire, Nook, iOS and Windows 8 for tablet mindshare. Now there is one more formidable competitor looming!


Someone at *Forbes *is thinking along the same lines. 



> But a new chapter is expected to open for WebOS, with its open-source status offering possible disruptions to Android's strength at a moment when Google's OS is beset with challenges.
> 
> [more]


----------



## Juanus

Steve, No one is as big of a WebOS fan as I am. I hope you and Forbes are correct. I am just having a hard time being positive about this. The reason Android succeeds is that it has strong development on the core from Google. They are really working on it. For some reason, I get the feeling HP isn't going to be working that hard.
Like I said, I hope I am wrong!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Juanus said:


> Steve, No one is as big of a WebOS fan as I am. I hope you and Forbes are correct. I am just having a hard time being positive about this. The reason Android succeeds is that it has strong development on the core from Google. They are really working on it. For some reason, I get the feeling HP isn't going to be working that hard.
> Like I said, I hope I am wrong!


Seeing some form of relief and future support the many folks who invested in the WebOS tablets would certainly be a good thing.

Looking at the timing and realities of Android 4.x (aka Ice Cream Sandwich - years in the making and the foundation for all things Android) coming out in a matter of weeks, and the next generation Apple iOS coming out some time perhaps mid-year in 2012...WebOS is going to be trailing the two deep pocket/major industry platforms more and more each month as time goes by.

Between the financial investment and development world support of these two lead platforms, it will be a stretch to think HP can get WebOS to grow adoption and any kind of major development following without something unique or strong to offer towards sales.

In a way it is sad, as WebOS itself had some nice capabilities, but unfortunately, it also requires some hefty horsepower to properly take advantage of them. The consistent criticism of the HP tablets was that they were "significantly underpowered to use WebOS". This would lead one to think they would also require more hardware manufacturers to get on board or else have HP themselves bring out more powerful units.

Android is about to launch its first quad-core processor in the ASUS Transformer PRIME any week, and its rumored the next iPad (3) in 2012 will also have something similar in horsepower. Those are the competitive standards in place when WebOS tries to rebound - a tough mountain to climb.


----------



## Steve

Juanus said:


> They are really working on it. For some reason, I get the feeling HP isn't going to be working that hard.


That's the beauty of open-sourcing it, IMHO. HP doesn't have to work hard at all. They just need to provide tools, patents and direction to the development community, who'll shoulder most, if not all, of the development burden.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> *That's the beauty of open-sourcing it, IM*HO. HP doesn't have to work hard at all. They just need to provide tools, patents and direction to the development community, who'll shoulder most, if not all, of the development burden.


Steve is correct...it is a plus.

Android has also done this with their Ice Cream Sandwich OS (Android version 4.x). Many Android devices are going to be offered the newer version updates for free.

http://thenextweb.com/google/2011/11/14/android-4-0-ice-cream-sandwich-source-code-released/


----------



## Steve

From today's *Register*. If I understand this correctly, sounds like webOS apps created using the ENYO development tools can be ported to iOS and Android as well. Great bang for the buck, if you're a developer.



> HP has announced the schedule for the open sourcing of WebOS tools and source code, and said it will be continuing to push development hard to build a truly open platform.
> 
> "We wanted to do it right, we're upleveling Webos to the most current versions," said Sam Greenblatt, CTO of WebOS, told The Register. "Basically we inverted the triangle, coming at it with developer stuff first so they can develop for many platforms. *This fulfills the dream we had 23 years ago of what WebOS was supposed to be.*"
> 
> The schedule kicks off today with the release of the original ENYO application framework under an Apache license. HP is also including ENYO 2.0, which extends the platforms open to WebOS developers to include iOS and Android, Internet Explorer and Firefox, up to the desktop browser level.
> 
> [*More*]


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:



> From today's *Register*. If I understand this correctly, sounds like webOS apps created using the ENYO development tools can be ported to iOS and Android as well. Great bang for the buck, if you're a developer.


It's only a great bang for their buck if there's enough people left using WebOS to buy / use their application and make it worth their time to support it. I'm pleased to see WebOS go open source but unless someone comes up with some new, really compelling feature or integrates it into some really compelling hardware I don't see it going anywhere.

Everyone thinks Android took off just because it was a free (to the manufacturers) OS that could compete with the iPhone. But things like free turn by turn directions were just as important in turning the market so abruptly and unless WebOS comes up with something like that they're doomed because they face a ridiculous deficit with regards to available applications.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> It's only a great bang for their buck if there's enough people left using WebOS to buy / use their application and make it worth their time to support it. I'm pleased to see WebOS go open source but unless someone comes up with some new, really compelling feature or integrates it into some really compelling hardware I don't see it going anywhere.


I'm probably stating the obvious, but the key to webOS's survival, IMHO, will be if hardware manufacturers with already razor thin profit margins choose to deploy it as a way to offer buyers lower cost tablet options, free from the "Microsoft tax" they currently pay on Android devices.

I think this is especially true for makers of "specialty" Android tablets, like B&N's Nook and the Kindle Fire. AFAIK, B&N is still in court fighting the Microsoft tax. If they lose, no doubt the Fire will be Microsoft's next target in court. Given those devices use a custom UI and limit what apps are available anyway, it probably won't matter much to them which OS is running underneath the covers.

And we still don't know how Google's acquisition of Motorola will play out. If Motorola tablets and phones get favored treatment, it might _force _players like HTC, Lenovo, Samsung, Acer and Asus to look at alternatives. Outside the US, e.g., Samsung is already pouring lots of development effort into Bada, which is a very slick alternative to Android and iOS, IMHO. There's a neat Bada 2.0 video here.

Just my .02.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I'm probably stating the obvious, but the key to webOS's survival, IMHO, will be if hardware manufacturers with already razor thin profit margins choose to deploy it as a way to offer buyers lower cost tablet options, free from the "Microsoft tax" they currently pay on Android devices.
> 
> I think this is especially true for makers of "specialty" Android tablets, like B&N's Nook and the Kindle Fire. AFAIK, B&N is still in court fighting the Microsoft tax. If they lose, no doubt the Fire will be Microsoft's next target in court. Given those devices use a custom UI and limit what apps are available anyway, it probably won't matter much to them which OS is running underneath the covers.
> 
> And we still don't know how Google's acquisition of Motorola will play out. If Motorola tablets and phones get favored treatment, it might _force _players like HTC, Lenovo, Samsung, Acer and Asus to look at alternatives. Outside the US, e.g., Samsung is already pouring lots of development effort into Bada, which is a very slick alternative to Android and iOS, IMHO. There's a neat Bada 2.0 video here.
> 
> Just my .02.


Valid points, but if I'm a hardware manufacturer I don't know that it's worth the gamble. How many apps are available for WebOS? I'm not sure but it's certainly a fraction of what is in the Android Market. Google certainly doesn't care if B&N and Amazon use WebOS (especially if they run a heavily customized version of WebOS) instead of Android for a non-Google certified device like the Nook / Fire because they aren't making anything off of either of those devices now.

Any new OS (look at the current adoption rate of WP7) is going to have a very hard time penetrating the market. Bada certainly looks interesting and WebOS may not face a MS "tax" today but if either of those achieve a significant market share you'll probably have MS and Apple filing patent infringement cases against those too. At least with Google (especially if the MMI acquisition goes through and MMI continues their recent success against Apple in the patent cases) you have some incredibly deep pockets and a significant IP portfolio behind you to help fight the battles. I don't think HP is going to have much stake in doing the same for WebOS.

Don't get me wrong, I like WebOS and I'm pleased to see it being released to the open source community, but it sounds like that won't be fully completed until late in 2012 and they'll just be even farther behind the curve by then. If I'm an application developer why waste my time (even if it's a relatively small effort to port applications) porting to WebOS instead of writing something new for Android or iOS that have massive market share? This is the same problem WP7 is currently facing and will most likely continue to face until all the money MS poured into Nokia starts to pay off in terms of solid hardware making their OS widely available.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Valid points, but if I'm a hardware manufacturer I don't know that it's worth the gamble.


I'm not sure if it's much of a gamble, because they'd be using the same hardware they manufacture for Android. Similar to how PC manufacturers can offer Linux instead of Windows at a lower price point, tablet manufacturers could offer webOS or Android.


> Google certainly doesn't care if B&N and Amazon use WebOS (especially if they run a heavily customized version of WebOS) instead of Android for a non-Google certified device like the Nook / Fire because they aren't making anything off of either of those devices now.


My point in bringing up Nook and Fire is that B&N and Amazon may be charged with the Microsoft tax, so webOS could be a way for them to improve their razor thin margins on those devices.

A bit OT, but since you mentioned it, I'll bet Google _does_ care that Amazon and B&N use Android, but in a negative way. Not only are they benefiting from Google's IP by using Android in a way that cuts off any revenue stream back to Google, but it seems to me that every $200 Fire that's sold is likely a 7" Android tablet that won't be sold, which directly impacts Google's bottom line. Just my .02.


----------



## Cholly

as of this moment (12:35 pm Eastern), Woot! is offering refurbed 32 gig Touchpads for $219 plus $5 shiipping.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> A bit OT, but since you mentioned it, I'll bet Google _does_ care that Amazon and B&N use Android, but in a negative way. Not only are they benefiting from Google's IP by using Android in a way that cuts off any revenue stream back to Google, but it seems to me that every $200 Fire that's sold is likely a 7" Android tablet that won't be sold, which directly impacts Google's bottom line. Just my .02.


Certainly they care that they are selling a very popular product that directly competes with Android tablets, I didn't mean to infer they wouldn't. I just meant that at that point it doesn't matter if it's running customized Android, WebOS, Linux, or whatever - it's a competitive product.


----------



## trdrjeff

Good news for further android development for TP owners, HP released the code for their Android development...

http://rootzwiki.com/topic/17563-the-other-touchpad-kernel-source-from-hp-android-dump/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

trdrjeff said:


> Good news for further android development for TP owners, HP released the code for their Android development...
> 
> http://rootzwiki.com/topic/17563-the-other-touchpad-kernel-source-from-hp-android-dump/


Unfortunately that's an older Android version code that will be 2 major release versions behind in a matter of weeks when Ice Cream Sandwich (v4.0) comes out on most tablets.


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