# D* drops TNT HD to make room for Sunday Ticket???



## booger (Nov 1, 2005)

Washington, D.C. (September 10, 2007) -- DIRECTV HD owners, it's time to stand up for your rights.

The satcaster yesterday dropped TNT HD (again) from its lineup for several hours to make room for the high-def broadcasts of the NFL Sunday Ticket.

DIRECTV didn't tell anyone it would drop the channel. In fact, Eric Shanks, DIRECTV's executive vice president for entertainment, told TVPredictions.com last month that the satcaster would not drop a HD channel this year to make room for the NFL games.

(Last year, DIRECTV took a HD channel off the air every Sunday for the entire NFL season. The decision angered high-def viewers, many of whom received discounts on their monthly bills after complaining to DIRECTV's customer service.)

Read more here...


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## booger (Nov 1, 2005)

I thought D* had all this extra bandwidth for HD...


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Coming Soon!:sure:


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

The newest rumor is 9/18......the bandwith is coming. So, if this stands, it's only 1 more Sunday that they will do this???


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

:kickbutt:

D* on the right, customer on the left

:hurah:


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

SDizzle said:


> The newest rumor is 9/18......the bandwith is coming. So, if this stands, it's only 1 more Sunday that they will do this???


Only if they move TNT or another channel to MPEG4. The new satellite doesn't make MPEG2 room.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Still wasn't enough to drop TNT and PPV. They still had to put games on the same channel which created another issue. D* have over extended themselves...badly.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

It ain't D*'s fault. It's the FCC and their damned MUST carry crap with all these locals that's created this stinking mess.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Racer88 said:


> It ain't D*'s fault. It's the FCC and their damned MUST carry crap with all these locals that's created this stinking mess.


Kool-Aid? This is D*'s fault. Drop the 35 shopping and religious channels. That will free up some bandwidth.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, this is all temporary. I know that some programming got dropped, but that wasn't DIRECTV's intention. There's really nothing they could have done better... they got the satellite up in the sky as fast as they could, and will light it up as soon as they reliably can. 

I know it was annoying this weekend for people, myself included. I don't watch football much (no local team in LA anyway) and I got a new HR20 in the bedroom this weekend. I couldn't set up active content or test the mix channels, which I wanted to do before the installer left. 

But relax, have a snack, it's all improving.


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## C-Dub006 (Aug 23, 2007)

Racer88 said:


> It ain't D*'s fault. It's the FCC and their damned MUST carry crap with all these locals that's created this stinking mess.


Amen to that!!. I HATE all the small local CRAP stations we have to carry in the LA market. Of the 26 local LA channels D* carries, only 10 are worth anything!!.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

luckydob said:


> Kool-Aid? This is D*'s fault. Drop the 35 shopping and religious channels. That will free up some bandwidth.


As opposed to a several hundred LilL channels? :nono2:

Yeah those 35 channels will get you what maybe 3 HD lite channels?


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## djwww98 (Jan 12, 2006)

Just watch the TNT SD on 245. There is a reason TNT was the one to be dropped. It's taking up HD bandwidth even though it's not really HD. It's mostly just stretched overcompressed upconverted crap. If I was going to watch TNT for some reason and the HD channel was available I probably wouldn't use it anyway, I would watch the SD version. The HD version is nearly unwatcheable. I don't think I have ever watched an entire program on TNT anyway... what is it, like the 6 year old network crime show rerun channel? The few original programs they have, like The Closer, they replay 20 times a week anyway. Stop whining about stupid s***. Just watch it on 245.


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

You have to remember all those LiLs are spotbeamed, It is considerably less bandwidth if they were to switch that to a conus service, like 30-40 SD channels instead of hundreds. You may get 1 or 2 MPEG2 HD channels out of it. 4 if they compress the heck out of it.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

I missed watching a bunch of Law and Order re-runs in HD on Sunday. What a bummer.


Newest rumor is 9/18.....

Why 9/18 ?? Why fire up the new HD channels on a Tuesday the 18th ?


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## lobofanina (Apr 14, 2007)

HD Football or an edited commercial filled sub par movie. Tough choice.


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## Alexandrepsf (Oct 26, 2005)

Patience is a virtue. 

This kind of discussion will soon be history.


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

Not everyone watches football. Just seems the Sunday ticket people just can't grasp that concept.


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## djwww98 (Jan 12, 2006)

Juppers said:


> Not everyone watches football. Just seems the Sunday ticket people just can't grasp that concept.


But more people watch football than watch overcompressed, stretched, upconverted second rate edited commercial filled reruns.
AND IT CAN BE WATCHED ON 245! How many times does it have to be said? THE SAME THING CAN BE WATCHED ON 245!
And don't even whine about it not being HD. TNT HD on 75 IS NOT HD. The vast majority of viewers that want to can upconvert and stretch an SD signal on their TV. So if you do that, you'll be doing exactly what TNT does before sending it to you via D* on 75.


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## VicF (Sep 5, 2006)

For those that pay the HD Fee and D* drops one of the channels D* is not delivering the promised service and should therefore pay, discount, fee for those that did not receive everything they paid for. How would Sunday Ticket buyers feel if it got dropped for something else when they paid for it?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am suffering for a really big case of DeJa Vu here.....

Didn't we have this EXACT discussion a year ago?


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

It's the NFL's fault for scheduling so many 1 PM eastern games. If they even out the games half morning half afternoon this wouldn't be an issue...........................................Whatever. If it wasn't for Sunday ticket they would lose half the customers, half the money, half the ability to put up new Satellites and of course half the future HD programming.

Stop crying, if it wasn't for us sports junkies, scraping up every dollar we can to buy programming, D* wouldn't be in business. 

ST w/Superfan = $348
MLB w/Superfan = $170
Nascar Hotpass = $80
NBA League = $179
Mega March Mad = $69

Total = $846

Almost every UFC and Pride event as well at $49.00 a pop.

This is how much Extra I pay for sports every year Not to mention $99 a month for Premium along with the $10 a month for HD. Who do you think they are going to cater to? Turn it to 245 for a couple hours and stop whining.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I find it very hard to excited about this issue.
It has been happening for a couple years now,
It won't be a problem after this year
Might not be a problem in a couple weeks, if you have the MPEG4 receivers
TNT is barely HD most of the time anyway (but getting better)
It is only a few hours out of the 168 available every week.
So can someone remind me, what is the real big deal? I don't wish to demean anyone or their feelings. I just can't really go with this one.

Cheers,
Tom


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## lobofanina (Apr 14, 2007)

Two months ago my sister switched to DirecTv for Sunday Ticket, I seriously doubt anyone is switching to DirecTv for TNTHD.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I headed over to read the articles...

I have one request.... and this is me as a paying customer....
If you honestly are going to call DirecTV to demand a refund...

Please, do so ONLY IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY effected.... seriously...

The fact that this wasn't posted till TODAY!!! (monday)... and not until the article was written... Goes to show how many people actually noticed, because there was something on TNT-HD that they wanted to watch....
Last year, we had posts because people noticed it in the guide earlier in the day.

If you were truelly affected by the drop of TNT-HD... call and ask for something. But please... apply some common sense, and don't just call because you can "get" something out of it.

As a reminder.... they do keep track of all the credits that are given out now. Calling for something like this... could affect you getting something later on... (aka... wonder why some people can't get a free HR20? )...
There new system pretty much can keep tabs on your entire history with DirecTV...

Calling and getting a $5 credit for 6 months now... could hurt you if you have a REAL problem....


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

13 channels of HD
24 hours a day
30 days a month

9360 hours of HD Programming a month

$10 a month for HD programming Divided By 9360 total hours:


18 hours of missing time due to Sunday ticket:

$1 gets you about 936 hours of programming

Make sure you call D* and get your credit:

$0.02 ROUNDED UP!!


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

Most of the peeps that were affected last year that really took exception were the "Neck" car fans who lost their precious turn left, turn left, turn left and finally turn left on sunday nights last year. They created quite the stink and with good reason! No one deserves such treatment..........:nono:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

texasmoose said:


> Most of the peeps that were affected last year that really took exception were the "Neck" car fans who lost their precious turn left, turn left, turn left and finally turn left on sunday nights last year. They created quite the stink and with good reason! No one deserves such treatment..........:nono:


Honestly... regardless if you like NASCAR or not...
It is EXTREMELY popular, and it was a SERIOUS concern for them...

And IIRC, the statments earlier this year by DTV was that no live events would be "shutdown" to provide bandwith for Sunday Ticket.

IIRC - No NASCAR races were lost last year because of the shutdowns.
And IIRC, the schedules this year (with the carriers) had no TNT races during this time of the year... so it wasn't a concern this year.

Bottom line is... if you were TRUELY affected, call... but if you were not.....


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## adkcek (Oct 16, 2006)

I was able to solve this problem from last year with my new Dishnetwork account. When it came time to upgrade my Tivo for MPEG 4 I remembered how important I was to Directv last year so that is why I switched providers.


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## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

So they are dropping it for good? Or just until they get more bandwidth from the new sat?

As long as they are back up before NBA season... otherwise there is nothing on TNT worth watching in HD anyways!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Was only for a few hours during NFL games. They brought it back up Sunday nite.

Cheers,
Tom


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

FlyBono24 said:


> So they are dropping it for good? Or just until they get more bandwidth from the new sat?
> 
> As long as they are back up before NBA season... otherwise there is nothing on TNT worth watching in HD anyways!


They did not drop it at all. They temporarily shut down the HD feed for about 18 hours to provide enough bandwidth to support all the Sunday ticket games in HD. It was turned on shortly there after.

People are just crying because they were unable to get there up-converted Law and Order marathon in HD for a couple hours on Sunday.


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## lobofanina (Apr 14, 2007)

adkcek said:


> I was able to solve this problem from last year with my new Dishnetwork account. When it came time to upgrade my Tivo for MPEG 4 I remembered how important I was to Directv last year so that is why I switched providers.


It must be great having Dish Network "solve" the Sunday Ticket dilemma for you, by not having it, I'm sure you loved TNTHD on Sunday.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

"As a reminder.... they do keep track of all the credits that are given out now. Calling for something like this... could affect you getting something later on... (aka... wonder why some people can't get a free HR20? )...
There new system pretty much can keep tabs on your entire history with DirecTV...

Calling and getting a $5 credit for 6 months now... could hurt you if you have a REAL problem...."

Is that really how Direct operates, Earl?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

According to Swanni, Eric Shanks either lied about the issue, or was misinformed. And probably everyone on this forum wondered where they were going to get the bandwidth. Evidently, this did not occur to Mr. Shanks.

I can understand it when the CSRs are misinformed. This, I have trouble with, although I'm certainly not going to ask for a refund.

I'm just becoming discouraged with D* for several reasons. They evidently do not care about being honest with their customers at any level. Remember the comment about being first with History HD? They misspoke about removing TNT-HD for football. They have made the claims of huge numbers of HD channels, but denigrate the Voom channels that some of us want; channels that would help them fill out their number. 

They tell the FCC they are ahead of schedule on the new sat, ask for permission to park it early, and then sit on it for almost two weeks. 

None of these factors are a big deal individually, but they add up. I'm not angry. "Discouraged" is the word.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

John W said:


> Is that really how Direct operates, Earl?


I think a whole lot of companies are a lot more sensitive now about people calling many times to get freebies/deals/credits for things they feel they've been "wronged" about. Maybe because there is software available now to more easily identify offenders, maybe because it is becoming modus operandi for a lot of people, especially when the "keep calling and demand until you get it advice" is so rampant on the internet now.

Just browsing through the threads on here give a hint about that. To the point of people flaming D* because no matter how many times they call, they can't get the same deal as the guy who posted in his excitement about a deal he just got.

Sprint even dropped some of their customers who were constantly taking up the time of the CSRs demanding credits every time the wind switched direction.

Keep coming to the trough to drink and it will eventually dry up. The advice that Earl is giving is very sound - don't go to the well until you are truly affected by something, not just because someone else got something and you want a piece of it, too.


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## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> According to Swanni, Eric Shanks either lied about the issue, or was misinformed. And probably everyone on this forum wondered where they were going to get the bandwidth. Evidently, this did not occur to Mr. Shanks.
> 
> I can understand it when the CSRs are misinformed. This, I have trouble with, although I'm certainly not going to ask for a refund.
> 
> ...


Well I'm downright angry, and have every right to be. The only reason I stay with this crap company (GREAT channels, great picture quality, etc... but HORRIBLE customer service) is because they have the NFL license... if it wasn't for that I would have cancelled and gotten FiOS a long time ago...

The vague promises about the new HD channels is just the tip of the iceberg, but the biggest part is all the times they charged me for late fees when their website wasn't correctly taking payments, then promising me refunds on things when my service was out, but not receiving any refund... and having to go through several CSR's just to get my order corrected even from the time I signed up... and just tonight I checked and found out they DIDN'T cancel my SuperFan as I had requested, AND they charged me a $70 service fee for sending a tech, when both they and the tech said I wouldn't be charged.


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

jcurrier31 said:


> It's the NFL's fault for scheduling so many 1 PM eastern games. If they even out the games half morning half afternoon this wouldn't be an issue...........................................Whatever. If it wasn't for Sunday ticket they would lose half the customers, half the money, half the ability to put up new Satellites and of course half the future HD programming.
> 
> Stop crying, if it wasn't for us sports junkies, scraping up every dollar we can to buy programming, D* wouldn't be in business.
> 
> ...


That is the exact attitude of entitlement I was expecting. Your dollars spent are no more or less important than my dollars spent. I'm glad they are delivering exactly what you are paying for and interested in. Personally, I rarely watch TNTHD, but when I do want to watch it, I expect it to be there. As I'm sure you expect the same from the various sports packages and events you are paying for.


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## chopperjc (Oct 2, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I think a whole lot of companies are a lot more sensitive now about people calling many times to get freebies/deals/credits for things they feel they've been "wronged" about. Maybe because there is software available now to more easily identify offenders, maybe because it is becoming modus operandi for a lot of people, especially when the "keep calling and demand until you get it advice" is so rampant on the internet now.
> 
> Just browsing through the threads on here give a hint about that. To the point of people flaming D* because no matter how many times they call, they can't get the same deal as the guy who posted in his excitement about a deal he just got.
> 
> ...


The advice maybe good but if the CSR's were better able to handle problems or there was more consistency in pricing that would be a bigger help. How many deals have been posted regarding sports packages and discounts. I believe D* does bring a lot of this on themselves.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I also watch TNT-HD just for a few programs and agree that most of the programming is unwatchable stretch-o-vision and not true HD. What ticked me off was the fact that DTV pre-empted TNT-HD for the NFL when TNT was airing the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy over the Christmas holidays. Fortunately, they aired them again a few weeks ago so I've got them all recorded and burned to HD-DVD.  

This was just one of the incidents that pushed me over the edge and prompted me to jump ship for FIOS. The good news is that they'll never pre-empt any HD programming due to lack of bandwidth. I'm no big sports nut so the loss of overpriced sports packages doesn't bother me in the least. The NFL and Terps basketball are about the only sports I watch these days. I used to love both baseball and hockey but the various strikes soured me completely on both sports. I can't stand the NBA, mainly because the players are a bunch of whiney prima donas. NASCAR is just flat out boring (I rank it right up there with "professional" wrestling, which apparently seems to attract mostly the same audience).


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Ever heard of the term solidarity, Earl? Are you speaking as a Directv rep when you ask people not to request a refund unless you are affected directly. Anyone who pays for the full HD package and gets less is affected, technically speaking. In the past, Directv decided to use credits as a way to appease customers who have had problems, etc. They made that call (try getting credits from Comcast the way Directv doles them out).

No, asking people not to call because it may affect them getting future credits is pretty pathetic. I'd wager that if you check someone who has gotten a lot of credits in the past, there is a reason for it. Not just that Directv decided to toss them around for no reason.

Example: My NBC MPEG4 channel had serious sound dropouts recently. I sent an email into Directv. I got a call from a CSR, immediately offering me a free month of service. Yes, a free month. I didn't even get a word out of my mouth. That is the Directv business model, smooth over technical issues with credits.

So asking people not to ask for a refund is a mistake, in my view. If people want to let Directv know they are dropping the ball for any reason, they should do what they need to do. It's not about the $15, it's about Directv doing what it says it is going to do. It's about holding their feet to the fire, since we all pay substantial fees every month. No one would gladly fork over $250 for a new iPod and settle for one that had no shuffle feature. And it's not about how critical the TNT-HD issue is on the larger scale. People need a way to vote, and they can vote with their wallets in this case.

Your tone sounds a tad threatening ("If you ask for a refund, you can piss off Directv and it might come back to haunt you). Do you know for a fact that Directv will punish customers for complaining about a problem and asking for a credit? If so, I'd like to hear more about it. I doubt very much that's the case. If so, I'd never have a CSR offering me a free month for sound dropouts, without me even asking. I have more credits than anyone, and it's not because I demanded them. It's because ever since Directv made its move to MPEG-4, HR20, etc., they have had problem after problem (when compared to my first six years with them). They decided to appease customers with cash incentives. Now, they have to live with that strategy.



Earl Bonovich said:


> I headed over to read the articles...
> 
> I have one request.... and this is me as a paying customer....
> If you honestly are going to call DirecTV to demand a refund...
> ...


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## DarkAudit (Sep 10, 2007)

Tugboat said:


> Your tone sounds a tad threatening ("If you ask for a refund, you can piss off Directv and it might come back to haunt you). Do you know for a fact that Directv will punish customers for complaining about a problem and asking for a credit? If so, I'd like to hear more about it. I doubt very much that's the case.


I can't say that D* will drop you, but Sprint might.

That story's been Slashdotted, Digg'd, and reached over 20 pages on the sprinusers.com message board before I got tired of reading about it.

So there's precedent, and D* doesn't have quite as many competitors for a customer to choose from.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

My TNT-HD was cut off Sunday. Did I notice? No, I was watching football. So why should I call and ask for credits? I was affected, but it did not effect me so I should not be calling.

I save my goodwill for times when I need it.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

DarkAudit said:


> I can't say that D* will drop you, but Sprint might.
> 
> That story's been Slashdotted, Digg'd, and reached over 20 pages on the sprinusers.com message board before I got tired of reading about it.
> 
> So there's precedent, and D* doesn't have quite as many competitors for a customer to choose from.


Did Sprint make it a company-wide policy to throw credits at customers from the get-go? Directv is in love with the credit. It's their way of making problems go away. And in all honesty, if Directv drops me because they offered me credits (the majority of times without me asking), then I'd say I guess I would have to live with it. Like I can't get NFL games, movies and HD via cable? (After all, most of us watch 10-20 core channels, that's it). But unlike mobile phone carriers, my feeling is Directv would never go down that road because there is way too much at stake monetarily in the long run, with all the ancillary services attached to the video delivery/programming space. Granted, you have more choice with mobile carriers, but they don't deliver as vital a service in my view.

So I understand, Sprint did it. My feeling...it's apples to oranges.


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## DarkAudit (Sep 10, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> My TNT-HD was cut off Sunday. Did I notice? No, I was watching football. So why should I call and ask for credits? I was affected, but it did not effect me so I should not be calling.
> 
> I save my goodwill for times when I need it.


I nearly needed some Saturday. Stomped off in disgust after another dropped pass in the 3rd quarter. Two quick TDs followed (of course).

Both my parents got Bachelors degrees from Marshall, but Masters from WVU. what's a guy to do?

(My dad passed 10 years before the games picked up again. Would've been a lot of wagering going on there if he were still around. )


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## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

Tugboat said:


> My feeling...it's apples to oranges.


My feeling, yes apple to oranges. But I can't believe this thread exists, find something to do. TND-HD being down for a few hours can't really make you that upset can it??


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## morphy (Jun 5, 2007)

I can see how TNT fans would be so vocal about this. It would seem that _they_ "know drama" as well. 

Get over it! Sunday Ticket + Superfan has about 20 times the weight of TNTHD in this fight.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

vollmey said:


> My feeling, yes apple to oranges. But I can't believe this thread exists, find something to do. TND-HD being down for a few hours can't really make you that upset can it??


If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Right? Nothing more worthless than the "why does this thread exist?" statements. Maybe you should follow you own advice, and find something to do (other than read threads you believe to be worthless anyway).


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

lobofanina said:


> HD Football or an edited commercial filled sub par movie. Tough choice.


Yup will pick the movie everytime


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

morphy said:


> I can see how TNT fans would be so vocal about this. It would seem that _they_ "know drama" as well.
> 
> Get over it! Sunday Ticket + Superfan has about 20 times the weight of TNTHD in this fight.


Depends on who is considering it, contrary to popular belief - footbball is not the end all in the world, there are people out there that think it is a waste of breathable air


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

djwww98 said:


> Just watch the TNT SD on 245. There is a reason TNT was the one to be dropped. It's taking up HD bandwidth even though it's not really HD. It's mostly just stretched overcompressed upconverted crap. If I was going to watch TNT for some reason and the HD channel was available I probably wouldn't use it anyway, I would watch the SD version. The HD version is nearly unwatcheable. I don't think I have ever watched an entire program on TNT anyway... what is it, like the 6 year old network crime show rerun channel? The few original programs they have, like The Closer, they replay 20 times a week anyway. Stop whining about stupid s***. Just watch it on 245.


Even when it's HD material, they do something weird with the aspect ratio to fill the screen.


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## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

Oh Tugbat, I usually don't respond to insanity. But come on, TND-HD being down for a few hours can't be that big of a deal to you. Morphy has it right, you do know drama. I'll tell you what, PM your address and I'll send you $1 for your inconvience. That's well more than the $.02 that D* owes you. And then your problem is solved, no more insane dribble and evereybody is happy. Well maybe!!


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Was only for a few hours during NFL games. They brought it back up Sunday nite.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Too bad. Hey, can I get a credit for D* counting THT HD as "Hi Def"?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Tugboat said:


> Ever heard of the term solidarity, Earl? Are you speaking as a Directv rep when you ask people not to request a refund unless you are affected directly. Anyone who pays for the full HD package and gets less is affected, technically speaking. In the past, Directv decided to use credits as a way to appease customers who have had problems, etc. .......


I read Earl's post the same way I would read someone else's - and have actually posted myself. I didn't see him as trying to act as some spokesman for DirecTV or anything, but as a customer who reads innumerable stories on here of "I just called and insisted on X, and you can, too. Do it!", "Play CSR roullette and if you pound on enough CSRs, one of them will eventually cave" and such posts as that.

If someone truly missed something they were going to watch because D* took TNTHD down for a few hours, then by all means, let them know of your displeasure and if you/they work some credits out, fine. But I can almost guarantee that if there is one "I called D* because TNT-HD was down and I couldn't watch X and I got a $5 credit for six months", there would be exponentially more people calling D* who never had a thought to tune in TNT-HD on Sunday who would be calling to get the same credits - simply because someone else did and not because they were inconvenienced themselves.

If I pay admission to go to the circus and part of that admission price includes seeing the side shows, and the bearded lady is sick and doesn't show up and the only way I know about it is reading it in the paper the next day - not because I went to see her and she wasn't there - no way in heck would I sit there feeling like I was entitled to a partial refund because part of my admission included seeing the bearded lady and she wasn't there. I won't begrudge those who went to see her getting a refund, but I'm not going to expect one in that situation.

And what he said about going to the credit cookie jar was the same kind of caution I and others have mentioned before - not because we're somehow in cohoots with DirecTV.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

John W said:


> Earl Bonovich said:
> 
> 
> > "As a reminder.... they do keep track of all the credits that are given out now. Calling for something like this... could affect you getting something later on... (aka... wonder why some people can't get a free HR20? )...
> ...


Yes. A point made to the investors has been the amount of credits and credit reductions.

Cheers,
Tom


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## deepthinker (Jan 6, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> Depends on who is considering it, contrary to popular belief - footbball is not the end all in the world, there are people out there that think it is a waste of breathable air


Like me! I could care less about football. Football is for panzies.:grin: Sit on a bench for half the game and then only play 16 games a season. Don't get me started on the biggest sports panzies of all, baseball players. Ohh we can't play, it's raining and the grass could get wet or I might get a little mud on my pretty little uniform. Oh and they spend half the game scratching their nuts and spitting in the outfield or dugout.

Now hockey on the other hand. Getting hit at a much faster speed than a football player by a 215 lb. guy into rock hard seamless glass or boards while standing on thin blades. All the while, playing 82 games a season getting paid less than any other professional athelete, save soccer. Now, that my friend takes some toughness and a strong constitution.

I know it was off-topic, but I had too!:lol:

In all seriousness, it's not about whether you like sports or TNT. We should all get the channels we pay for all the time. Tell ya what football fans. How would you feel if suddenly DirecTV found Nascar more important than football and decided they'd take one of your football games away on Sunday for a Nascar race. Bet you'd be steaming wouldn't you. You'd be saying but I paid to get ALL the games. Well those of us that don't like football paid for ALL of the other channels, not just everything except for TNT HD when your precious football is on. Taking away even one channel I've paid for regardless of the content of the channel is just wrong.


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## gbubar (Feb 3, 2004)

I did call, not to ask for a refund, but to lodge my displeasure with them removing an HD channel for Sunday Ticket. My wife was all ready to sit down and watch TNT HD and could not...now I received an ear load because "my football games" effected her TV viewing. The ear full that I got was passed on to the CSR. Of course he did not have a clue...We will see how it goes next week and see if they remove an HD channel or not.


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

deepthinker said:


> Like me! I could care less about football. Football is for panzies.:grin: Sit on a bench for half the game and then only play 16 games a season. Don't get me started on the biggest sports panzies of all, baseball players. Ohh we can't play, it's raining and the grass could get wet or I might get a little mud on my pretty little uniform. Oh and they spend half the game scratching their nuts and spitting in the outfield or dugout.
> 
> Now hockey on the other hand. Getting hit at a much faster speed than a football player by a 215 lb. guy into rock hard seamless glass or boards while standing on thin blades. All the while, playing 82 games a season getting paid less than any other professional athelete, save soccer. Now, that my friend takes some toughness and a strong constitution.
> 
> I know it was off-topic, but I had too!:lol:


Tell that to the Buffalo Bills player laying in the hospital paralyzed and to others in Baseball & Football who had there playing days ended early because of injury. 
Sorry you missed your TNT HD on Sunday cause that's a real HE MAN channel.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

gbubar said:


> I did call, not to ask for a refund, but to lodge my displeasure with them removing an HD channel for Sunday Ticket. My wife was all ready to sit down and watch TNT HD and could not...now I received an ear load because "my football games" effected her TV viewing. The ear full that I got was passed on to the CSR. Of course the he did not have a clue...We will see how it goes next week and see if they remove an HD channel or not.


I suggest be prepared. With one less Monday night game and one less Thursday nite game, there will be more Sunday games this week. CBS and Fox will both be maxed on the number of HD games they will offer (Fox is even having to broadcast one game in SD only, CBS 2).

Cheers,
Tom


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## deepthinker (Jan 6, 2006)

upnorth said:


> Tell that to the Buffalo Bills player laying in the hospital paralyzed and to others in Baseball & Football who had there playing days ended early because of injury.
> Sorry you missed your TNT HD on Sunday cause that's a real HE MAN channel.


I didn't miss TNT at all. I could care less about Nascar or the channel itself. The only sport I even care about is hockey and I don't even subscibe to Center Ice. It's the principle of the matter. People expect to get what they pay for and nothing less. You pay big money for all the football and expect to get ALL the football. I pay for the channels I do and expect to get ALL of the ones I pay for ALL the time.

As for who's sport is more manly, I was just trying to be funny. I've seen that Buffalo replay and it sucks for the guy. Hockey players have lost eyes to sticks and many a career have been ended by concussions. One of the Dallas Stars players had someone come right down on him with the skate blade and rip open the tendons in is wrist. All contact sports are dangerous. That part of my post was an attempt at a little levity. Although, baseball players really are the most overpaid sissies in professional sports.:lol:


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

No sissy that I know of would stand there and have a 100 mph fastball thrown at him.


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## deepthinker (Jan 6, 2006)

Howie said:


> No sissy that I know of would stand there and have a 100 mph fastball thrown at him.


I was wondering how long it would take a baseball fan to chime in on the digs at baseball.:lol: I will give them one thing, I wouldn't want to be standing in the outfield in the 100+ degree heat here in Texas at "The Ballpark".:nono2: Give me a nice cold hockey arena.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

So, this gets me thinking, will D10 help this problem or will it continue because they need to keep all these channels on the old sats because of old customer equipment? just thinking out loud...


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> I suggest be prepared. With one less Monday night game and one less Thursday nite game, there will be more Sunday games this week. CBS and Fox will both be maxed on the number of HD games they will offer (Fox is even having to broadcast one game in SD only, CBS 2).


When I read the Eric Shanks comment, I wondered how they would do it. Then I saw the schedule and how D* was reusing channels for the late games and it sort of made sense. Then they shut off TNT on, as you noted a week with two less games.

I have to wonder how they are going to handle 2 more games. And Bye weeks don't start until Week 4.

According the the channel guide, they have 6 early games and 5 late games with 720-722 seeing double duty. So 5 late games seems to have saved them this week and possibly in Week 3.


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## deepthinker (Jan 6, 2006)

houskamp said:


> So, this gets me thinking, will D10 help this problem or will it continue because they need to keep all these channels on the old sats because of old customer equipment? just thinking out loud...


I would think with the new SAT going live and another one on the way really soon, that this TNT thing or any other channel being taken off air for bandwidth problems is going to be a non-issue. Especially once they get everyone swapped out with MPEG4 capable boxes. According to all of the financial conference calls I've heard snippets of in the past year or two they will be spending a lot of money to swap boxes out. It's in their best interest to get everyone with MPEG4 hardware ASAP. That being said, I had to jump into a lively debate anyway.:lol:


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Howie said:


> No sissy that I know of would stand there and have a 100 mph fastball thrown at him.


Never been hit by a 100 mph fastball, but the high 80's ones hurt like #@!!.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

houskamp said:


> So, this gets me thinking, will D10 help this problem or will it continue because they need to keep all these channels on the old sats because of old customer equipment? just thinking out loud...


It all depends on whether or not D* is will to mirror the MPEG-2 channels on D10 in MPEG-4. Its hard to tell from D*'s releases that state all current HD channels will remain on the current sats, but make no mention of the possibility of mirroring.

Eric Shanks could have let it slip that they would be mirrored when he said no HD channels would be removed meaning they would be available on D*10.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

deepthinker said:


> I was wondering how long it would take a baseball fan to chime in on the digs at baseball.:lol: I will give them one thing, I wouldn't want to be standing in the outfield in the 100+ degree heat here in Texas at "The Ballpark".:nono2: Give me a nice cold hockey arena.


I hear ya there, brother. I grew up in Dallas. I don't miss that heat the least little bit.


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## c152driver (Jan 21, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> I find it very hard to excited about this issue.
> It has been happening for a couple years now,
> It won't be a problem after this year
> Might not be a problem in a couple weeks, if you have the MPEG4 receivers
> ...


I think part of it is that there have been a lot of new HD customers added since last football season. I had heard about channels being dropped last football season but didn't experience it myself until this season.

I find this a little annoying, even though I didn't intend to watch TNT HD while it was dropped. It is more of a principle thing. I am not a huge football fan, and it feels like ST customers are being favored over those of us who aren't. I'm not receiving something I paid for. DirecTV has oversold their bandwdith.

Now, that being said, I'm not going to call and ask for a credit. It's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Just mildly annoying. But people need to have something to talk about while they wait for D10 to light up, right?


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## keith_benedict (Jan 12, 2007)

captain_video said:


> I also watch TNT-HD just for a few programs and agree that most of the programming is unwatchable stretch-o-vision and not true HD. What ticked me off was the fact that DTV pre-empted TNT-HD for the NFL when TNT was airing the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy over the Christmas holidays. Fortunately, they aired them again a few weeks ago so I've got them all recorded and burned to HD-DVD.


I hate to tell you this, but if the version of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy is the same version they broadcasted a few weeks ago, then it was stretchovision, not true HD.

The original aspect ratio of the trilogy is 2.35:1 which means that if they were broadcasting the unformatted film, there would have been black bars on the top and bottom of the image since widescreen TVs are 16:9 (roughly 1.83.1). What I watched a few weeks back didn't have the black bars. The image wasn't even as good as the SD DVD and the audio paled in comparison as well.


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## Sintori (Sep 5, 2007)

keith_benedict said:


> I hate to tell you this, but if the version of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy is the same version they broadcasted a few weeks ago, then it was stretchovision, not true HD.


Yeah, it was sad that my DVD had better quality than the "HD" on TNT. I was hoping to be wowed---I was just dissapointed.:grrr:


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## Sintori (Sep 5, 2007)

Just spoke to a CSR and the only date he would give me was "September". But he said he wasn't "aware" that TNT-HD was dropped and he believed if it had been it wasn't "intentional". He said he received many calls from ST fans with technical issues but had not heard of the TNT-HD issue.:sure:


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## djwww98 (Jan 12, 2006)

OK, I'll type slowly so the TNT fans can follow along.
1. Turn to channel 245.
2. Change your aspct ratio to "stretch mode".
3. Go to resolution in the menu and select only 1080i.
There, now your Law and Order rerun looks exactly the same as it does on channel 75. :nono2:


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

First off, I don't really watch that channel much, but the problem isn't really about TNT. That is a straw man argument created by D* apologists. It is about D* dropping _any_ channel. Just because you don't like channel X, Y, or Z doesn't mean that it's not someone else's favorite channel. If D* is dropping a channel someone likes to watch, (TNT does show some actual HD) then that person does have a right to be annoyed, and isn't out of line for asking for compensation for service they paid for, but didn't receive.


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## HD AV (Nov 22, 2006)

Earl is correct. Go ahead and call for credits. Your calls are ALL tracked as are your credits. I called last year and voiced my displeasure with alternating HD channels being taken off line when I was paying to see them. I didn't ask for any credit, it was offered and given. I expressed my appreciation and that was that. I recently went on 2 weeks vacation and had the DVR set to record my favorite series and my GF's soaps while we were gone. A software download occurred the night we left and I didn't get a single recording. I called to express my displeasure with a national release that could cause such a serious problem and said I believed I should receive credit for the 2 weeks I was (basically) without service. I was told that I had just finished up a credit issued and, that they were more than generous to me by taking off a $70 service call (to realign my dish that the original installer didn't tighten properly). When I tried to explain the service person called and had the $70 credit issued due to what he determined was an improper installation, not me, I got a rash of **** from the CSR. I thanked her for her time and hung up. Upon calling back and getting another CSR, she said "You already got your answer just a few minutes ago". I had to get hold of a supervisor just to have a civil conversation about the problem I was calling about...a national release of software that hung my HR20 and left me without service for 2 weeks. He was very pleasant and gave me another credit without my asking. My point.......BE CAREFUL what you do and say when dealing with D*, Earl is right BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING and tracking.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> Ever heard of the term solidarity, Earl? Are you speaking as a Directv rep when you ask people not to request a refund unless you are affected directly. Anyone who pays for the full HD package and gets less is affected, technically speaking. In the past, Directv decided to use credits as a way to appease customers who have had problems, etc. They made that call (try getting credits from Comcast the way Directv doles them out).
> 
> No, asking people not to call because it may affect them getting future credits is pretty pathetic. I'd wager that if you check someone who has gotten a lot of credits in the past, there is a reason for it. Not just that Directv decided to toss them around for no reason.


As another long-paying customer I also do not want people fraudently calling for credits for their account when it did not affect them. If you were not watching the impacted channel at the time, then it did not effect YOU and you should not be asking for a credit. Since I pay money to them for service, you taking an undeserved credit will ultimately cost ME money. Just because something happened to part of the service does not mean you are entitled to a credit just because you can ask for it.

Earl is simply saying if you were not affected, do not call for a credit. That is 100% reasonable.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

vollmey said:


> Oh Tugbat, I usually don't respond to insanity. But come on, TND-HD being down for a few hours can't be that big of a deal to you. Morphy has it right, you do know drama. I'll tell you what, PM your address and I'll send you $1 for your inconvience. That's well more than the $.02 that D* owes you. And then your problem is solved, no more insane dribble and evereybody is happy. Well maybe!!


Guess your reading skills are lacking. I didn't say I wanted the credit. It's about delivering what you tell your customers you will deliver. Directv historically has done a lot of it, and the TNT-HD thing may not be great shakes in the grand scheme, but it's another example of their not being able to deliver the goods. People keep salivating about 70-100 HD channels. Yeah, that's a real big deal. How many channels do most people watch, 6-7? I'll say it once again. You missed the point.

Once again, if you don't like a thread, then don't read it. What may be worthless to you is worthwhile to someone else. Is that simple enough for you? Oh, it's drivel, not dribble. I believe the latter term has more to do with basketball and babies.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

marksman said:


> As another long-paying customer I also do not want people fraudently calling for credits for their account when it did not affect them. If you were not watching the impacted channel at the time, then it did not effect YOU and you should not be asking for a credit. Since I pay money to them for service, you taking an undeserved credit will ultimately cost ME money. Just because something happened to part of the service does not mean you are entitled to a credit just because you can ask for it.
> 
> Earl is simply saying if you were not affected, do not call for a credit. That is 100% reasonable.


Fraudulently calling? If customers didn't get a specific channel for a specific number of hours, Directv is taking something away from the HD package. It may not affect everyone's viewing habits, but it's sleazy, as others have pointed out.

Cost you money? How's that? I'll tell you how they pay for all those credits. They simply tally up all the savings they've enjoyed during the past year by getting all that free CE testing on this forum. I'll bet they are still ahead in the game money-wise, since it would have cost them a small fortune in man-hours to pay all the CE volunteers for the time they spent trying to fix the HR20. Think Directv is stupid? Not a chance.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

I do not have a problem with D* dropping TNT-HD it is being dropped for a good cause and that is FOOTBALL


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Racer88 said:


> It ain't D*'s fault. It's the FCC and their damned MUST carry crap with all these locals that's created this stinking mess.


Does not apply to D*, which is why the cable cos are so pissed.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Not a big fan of station dumping for the day just to accomodate football, but two things are involved here. First, at least there is a TNT -SD out there too. If they bumped HDNET, for example, there isn't a SDNET to make up for it. Second, and I have said this as a 12 year subscriber to NHL Center Ice, those of us who pay for the sports subscriptions pay a helluva lot of money for the extra package and we deserve the extra consideration. So, if something has to give, I agree that TNT should go to make room for the NFLST subs. Now, I just hope that we NHLCI subs get some consideration when the season starts, but I'm not holding breath!


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

By the way, if I remember correctly from this same, whiny, seemingly never-ending debate last year, TNT-HD agreed to allow D* to remove them for the period of time that they did. Or some contingency was included in the carriage contract or something.


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## digibob (Dec 1, 2005)

djwww98 said:


> Just watch the TNT SD on 245. There is a reason TNT was the one to be dropped. It's taking up HD bandwidth even though it's not really HD. It's mostly just stretched overcompressed upconverted crap. If I was going to watch TNT for some reason and the HD channel was available I probably wouldn't use it anyway, I would watch the SD version. The HD version is nearly unwatcheable. I don't think I have ever watched an entire program on TNT anyway... what is it, like the 6 year old network crime show rerun channel? The few original programs they have, like The Closer, they replay 20 times a week anyway. Stop whining about stupid s***. Just watch it on 245.


I Agree, why take up valuable HD bandwidth for a mostly upconverted SD channel. I always thought it was a waste.:nono2:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Okay, forget about TNT HD. They also dumped MLB EI Mix and any HD games. Seems to me that MLB EI is a premium package and the Mix is a cost on top of that. The funny part was they ran an announcement that the mix channel would come back at 9PM...when all the games are over.


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## SoCool (Feb 16, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Okay, forget about TNT HD. They also dumped MLB EI Mix and any HD games. Seems to me that MLB EI is a premium package and the Mix is a cost on top of that. The funny part was they ran an announcement that the mix channel would come back at 9PM...when all the games are over.


Exactly the point. If you subscribe to a package, pay the price, then you should get the goods. Last time I looked, MLB with Strike Zone was a premium subscription. Just like Sunday Ticket. Now if the shoe was on the other foot, who knows where that would lead. When you buy the shoes, you get the laces, your not told they would be given at another time, maybe. If you feel you have been slighted, call and let the company know how you feel. After all without the customer there would be no company. You don't have to ask for anything, and by all means be polite, but let them know. It's your right as a "customer". For the record I did call on Sunday to inquire as to the situation, but I did not ask for any freebies and none were offered.


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## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

Tugboat said:


> Guess your reading skills are lacking. I didn't say I wanted the credit. It's about delivering what you tell your customers you will deliver. Directv historically has done a lot of it, and the TNT-HD thing may not be great shakes in the grand scheme, but it's another example of their not being able to deliver the goods. People keep salivating about 70-100 HD channels. Yeah, that's a real big deal. How many channels do most people watch, 6-7? I'll say it once again. You missed the point.
> 
> Once again, if you don't like a thread, then don't read it. What may be worthless to you is worthwhile to someone else. Is that simple enough for you? Oh, it's drivel, not dribble. I believe the latter term has more to do with basketball and babies.


In your case it's "dribble", "drivel" usually has a bit of content to it that is worth the words being written. "dribble" what your stating and wanting is worthless.

Now that being said, you have better point about D* and the HD stuff. I like you have been reading stuff here and like you I am a bit frustrated over the HD stuff. That is valid and I would never ever say a word about complaints towards D*. All though I think some of the frustrations about HD that you read on this board is created by this board. There are way to many folks here that have no freaking idea what there talking about and then stir the pot. Which creates chaos and frustration.

We'll have to disagree on the TNT_HD stuff though. I'll still send you a $1.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Okay, Okay, OKAY............... The only reason that this thread has had 86 posts is because there is nothing else to post about right now......... D*, please hurry and get the new HD channels up so that we can chat and complain about other things, not upconverted TNTHD!!!!!


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

All I can say is that if you pay for a service then you should expect to get that service 24/7 if it's advertised that way. Robbing bandwidth from one channel to support football or any other program is just plain wrong. In this case, TNT-HD is part of the "package" that you get when paying for HD access. The quality of the programming aside, some people may like to watch whatever is on TNT-HD, especially if it's supposed to be broadcast in actual HD. Telling people to watch the SD channel just doesn't cut it. How would you ST holders like it if you were told you had to watch a game in SD that you were expecting to see in HD?

DirecTV pre-empts programming to rob bandwidth without any prior notification. They could at least have the decency to let their subscribers know that whatever they had planned to watch on TNT-HD that day was going to be unavailable because they feel their ST holders are more important than the rest of us.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tugboat said:


> Ever heard of the term solidarity, Earl? Are you speaking as a Directv rep when you ask people not to request a refund unless you are affected directly. Anyone who pays for the full HD package and gets less is affected, technically speaking. In the past, Directv decided to use credits as a way to appease customers who have had problems, etc. They made that call (try getting credits from Comcast the way Directv doles them out).
> 
> No, asking people not to call because it may affect them getting future credits is pretty pathetic. I'd wager that if you check someone who has gotten a lot of credits in the past, there is a reason for it. Not just that Directv decided to toss them around for no reason.


No.. I don't speak as a DirecTV rep... as I am not one.

In this particular cases... this is me... as a consumer...

I have posted the press releases, with regards to the software packages they have purchased to track EXACTLY this kind of thing.

DirecTV has been in the HORRENDOUS habit of just dishing out credits...
Well if you read over the historical past... you will see posts from people that have had credits REVERSED... or flat out not given, when someone else gets them.

Do you wonder why some people can't get an HR20 for Free or $99... but have to be $199 or $299?

All I stated was simply... Call if you were affected.... but if you were not.
Then don't.

Do you call every time that there is a signal issue on a channel? And they can't provide it to you? Even if you had no idea the channel was there, what content was on it, or that it was even down... until you see a post about it?

And that is the point of my post... 
Don't burn your bridges... because there can be case in your future, that when you truely are deserving of something... that a past "wolf cry"... may backfire on you.

--------

Comments to some of the others posts:

--------
This is a HORRIBLE case of de javu... the 100% same arguments apply from last year. So bottom line: 1 HD channel will be disabled during Sunday Ticket time... plain and simple. there is simply not enough bandwith.

TNT is going to be the one each week this time, as they don't have any NASCAR scheduled

--------
Hopefully TNT-HD will be switched over to MPEG-4 shortly after the D10 activation, and this entire argument becomes moot.

--------

DirecTV has made the point in MANY of it conference calls, that they are going to be reviewing and limiting the level of credits given... as it has gotten out of control.

SPRINT as pointed out, has actively eliminated customers for that reason... 
A LOT of companies are now using new software and systems to better track and account for those things...

As a customer... All of these "credits" have to come from somewhere...
Even if it does come from the "bottom line"... but frankly... if the "bottom line" isn't big enough...
Then where do they GET money from... subscription rates... hence if the credits are abused and not monitored...
Yes... as a customer, I am worried that my rates will go up.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl,

Right on target as usual. However, the issue I see in this particular case is that either one of two things happened:

1) Eric Shanks was flat out wrong and D* needs to make an updated statement, or

2) Swanni completely misquoted Shanks in which case D* needs to force Swanni to make a retraction.

So if people went into Sunday thinking no channels were going to be shut off because of Swanni's article, they probably deserve some compensation, especially if the error was on Shanks part.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Okay, forget about TNT HD. They also dumped MLB EI Mix and any HD games. Seems to me that MLB EI is a premium package and the Mix is a cost on top of that. The funny part was they ran an announcement that the mix channel would come back at 9PM...when all the games are over.


I think MLB HD package say they offer so many HD games a week, it doesn't say that they offer them every day. There might be a possibility for a late game on Sunday night on the west coast after the Sunday Ticket Games are over. Maybe when D10 goes live they can could put some MLB HD on D10 to carry some Day games on Sunday. The best thing for people who want HD during Sunday Ticket that doesn't watch football is to get a mpeg4 HD box(H20,H21,HR20) and hopefully D* will mirror the channel on D10 and you'll be set.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

kevinwmsn said:


> I think MLB HD package say they offer so many HD games a week, it doesn't say that they offer them every day. There might be a possibility for a late game on Sunday night on the west coast after the Sunday Ticket Games are over. Maybe when D10 goes live they can could put some MLB HD on D10 to carry some Day games on Sunday. The best thing for people who want HD during Sunday Ticket that doesn't watch football is to get a mpeg4 HD box(H20,H21,HR20) and hopefully D* will mirror the channel on D10 and you'll be set.


That's true...but they do say there will be a baseball mix channel and that was gone too.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No.. I don't speak as a DirecTV rep... as I am not one.
> 
> In this particular cases... this is me... as a consumer...
> 
> ...


As I said, the money they are saving via the CE testing (using all volunteers) is no doubt more than paying for all the credits they are handing out. A very smart move on their part. Talk about getting freebies when none are deserved.

And no, I don't call every time. But I do send an email every time I am watching the HR20 and a problem arises, if it persists. This is different, they said something was NOT going to happen, and it did anyway. I agree, either Eric Shanks was misinformed or misquoted. I tend to believe the former, only because Directv's pronouncements have been off base in the past. Again, handing out credits was their business model, they chose that path. So they have no one but themselves to blame. I didn't receive a single credit in six years with them (2000-2006), no need for one. Oh, they did replace an R-10 for free once. Now, all of a sudden with their new tech launch, they are tossing them out like beads at Mardi Gras. Whose fault is it?

Sure, people are going to take advantage. But again, it's Directv's fault for making this decision to appease irate customers. After all, what else could they do during the early months of the disastrous HR20/MPEG4 launch?

Now, via software, etc., they are going to tighten up that policy? Fine, if someone is cheating them out of $$$. But if problems persist, and they move away from credits, they will have more churning, especially if their much-hyped HD plans fall flat for any reason (and that is always a possibility). I mean, if when they add all the new HD channels, problems abound with PQ, sound, etc. My guess is the credits will continue with anyone who has a legitimate gripe. Otherwise, they will face some legal challenges down the road.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

The volunteer CE testing program is certainly not unprecedented. Netscape did it regularly years ago, Microsoft does it, Tivo does it and I am sure there are other companies that do it. I participate in the HR20 program because I like testing the latest and greatest, and it hasn't created any problems for me.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Howie said:


> The volunteer CE testing program is certainly not unprecedented. Netscape did it regularly years ago, Microsoft does it, Tivo does it and I am sure there are other companies that do it. I participate in the HR20 program because I like testing the latest and greatest, and it hasn't created any problems for me.


Good for you. Glad you are happy to give away your time and effort, and still pay Directv for their service. Very altruistic.

But does Microsoft charge its customers for the right to be beta testers? From what Earl says, he pays his monthly Directv bill, as I would guess so does every other CE tester. Is anyone part of any truly official Directv beta testing group? Doubtful. Call Directv and ask their PR honcho to comment on the CE volunteer effort, and if Directv will discuss it as such. Has Directv officially recognized the CE group as its official beta testing group? What do you think it would have cost Directv if they had to solve all the HR20 problems/issues (and they are not done yet) without the CE group? My only point is, sure software companies have beta testing groups. But they are not randomly (or self)-selected from a Web forum - AFTER a raft of problems with a product release surface. When the latest version of Windows is being tested, it's with a controlled group of testers, not one started by accident. And it's ostensibly done BEFORE the product is released to the public for purchase.

I stick to what I said. Comparing Microsoft to Directv doesn't apply. It's two different animals. I'm sure Microsoft would acknowledge they have a specific group of end users/customers who test their software prior to release. But, and here is the catch, they don't pay retail for the versions being tested. They get it for free. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe all the CE testers have had their Directv bills waived, even partially. I think not.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> Good for you. Glad you are happy to give away your time and effort, and still pay Directv for their service. Very altruistic.
> 
> But does Microsoft charge its customers for the right to be beta testers? From what Earl says, he pays his monthly Directv bill, as I would guess so does every other CE tester. Is anyone part of any truly official Directv beta testing group? Doubtful. Call Directv and ask their PR honcho to comment on the CE volunteer effort, and if Directv will discuss it as such. Has Directv officially recognized the CE group as its official beta testing group? What do you think it would have cost Directv if they had to solve all the HR20 problems/issues (and they are not done yet) without the CE group? My only point is, sure software companies have beta testing groups. But they are not randomly (or self)-selected from a Web forum - AFTER a raft of problems with a product release surface. When the latest version of Windows is being tested, it's with a controlled group of testers, not one started by accident. And it's ostensibly done BEFORE the product is released to the public for purchase.
> 
> I stick to what I said. Comparing Microsoft to Directv doesn't apply. It's two different animals. I'm sure Microsoft would acknowledge they have a specific group of end users/customers who test their software prior to release. But, and here is the catch, they don't pay retail for the versions being tested. They get it for free. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe all the CE testers have had their Directv bills waived, even partially. I think not.


Hey, Tugboat, I was just telling you the facts from my perspective as a volunteer tester. Your sarcasm just makes you look like an @ss.


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## cb7214 (Jan 25, 2007)

Tugboat said:


> Good for you. Glad you are happy to give away your time and effort, and still pay Directv for their service. Very altruistic.
> 
> But does Microsoft charge its customers for the right to be beta testers? From what Earl says, he pays his monthly Directv bill, as I would guess so does every other CE tester. Is anyone part of any truly official Directv beta testing group? Doubtful. Call Directv and ask their PR honcho to comment on the CE volunteer effort, and if Directv will discuss it as such. Has Directv officially recognized the CE group as its official beta testing group? What do you think it would have cost Directv if they had to solve all the HR20 problems/issues (and they are not done yet) without the CE group? My only point is, sure software companies have beta testing groups. But they are not randomly (or self)-selected from a Web forum - AFTER a raft of problems with a product release surface. When the latest version of Windows is being tested, it's with a controlled group of testers, not one started by accident. And it's ostensibly done BEFORE the product is released to the public for purchase.
> 
> I stick to what I said. Comparing Microsoft to Directv doesn't apply. It's two different animals. I'm sure Microsoft would acknowledge they have a specific group of end users/customers who test their software prior to release. But, and here is the catch, they don't pay retail for the versions being tested. They get it for free. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe all the CE testers have had their Directv bills waived, even partially. I think not.


the testers are Volunteers!!!! that is all that matters, no we are not getting paid yes we are paying to "test" but we are paying reguardless if we test or not so what is the big hairy deal???


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Howie said:


> No sissy that I know of would stand there and have a 100 mph fastball thrown at him.


Sounds like that pitcher need to be replaced pronto.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Let's bring this back around to the OT

:backontop


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

djwww98 said:


> OK, I'll type slowly so the TNT fans can follow along.
> 1. Turn to channel 245.
> 2. Change your aspct ratio to "stretch mode".
> 3. Go to resolution in the menu and select only 1080i.
> There, now your Law and Order rerun looks exactly the same as it does on channel 75. :nono2:


It won't look the same. That is the point. You need to do a side by side A B comparison. A low bitrate SD channel stretched vs a stretchovision HD. The HD will still look better due to better bitrate and resolution.

BTW the huge amount of HD content coming (soon) will mostly be upconverted SD until those channels get enough HD content to not need to do that. Will it look better than the SD channel. Yes. Will it be true HD? No. How it will look. Will they chop the top and bottom off to make it 16:9? Some will, Will some stretch it? Some will. And so on.

Will HBO or other premium movie channels look good, Most likely, they've been doing a HD channel for a while so they have it ready in HD to use.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Herdfan said:


> Earl,
> 
> Right on target as usual. However, the issue I see in this particular case is that either one of two things happened:
> 
> ...


I think this is a bit of an overreaction. (Edit: not on your part Herd - the whole thread, Swanni's message, etc)

Here's my take:
DirecTV never intended to turn off a channel. Shanks was right.

D10 was hoped to be online last week - but for whatever reason didn't make it.

TNTHD will be MPEG4 simulcast and not turned off Sunday. The MPEG2 version will be. If you want it bad enough - go MPEG4.

No updated statement is needed, nor are any credits, because the MPEG4 simulcast will be online by this weekend.

In the end - I think the doom and gloom is taking over again. It was 1 Sunday. I'm sure its not what DirecTV wanted. And I'm sure Shanks is right - no more channels will be turned off (as long as you have MPEG4 equipment - which DirecTV has made clear you need going forward).

Chris


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## Rob55 (Sep 14, 2006)

Just FYI, the DirecTV dealer website has a list of the HD channels going live between the end of September and the middle of October and it lists TNT-HD as being available on channel 75 AND 245. Apparently the same way that when you hit 4 to go to NBC (in the NY market anyway) you get NBC-HD 1st and get NBC-SD upon hitting channel up. As a matter of fact, all the new HD channels will be mapped to locations corresponding to their SD counterparts. TLC-HD will be 280, Discovery-HD will be 278, National Geographic-HD will be 276, CNN-HD will be 202, etc. There is an asterisk next to those numbers indicating that the channel will only be available with an H20/21 or HR20/21. Obviously, they will be MPEG-4 channels and TNT-HD on 245 shouldn't subject to any more Sunday Ticket related outages.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

John W said:


> "As a reminder.... they do keep track of all the credits that are given out now. Calling for something like this... could affect you getting something later on... (aka... wonder why some people can't get a free HR20? )...
> There new system pretty much can keep tabs on your entire history with DirecTV...
> 
> Calling and getting a $5 credit for 6 months now... could hurt you if you have a REAL problem...."
> ...


let's say they have a system in place that makes a decision...a solid business decision "how much is this customer worth"?

let's say based on your package, you spend $80 a month, and of that $80, $15 is profit.

But you called in and got a free hd-dvr, which set D* back for a dish and an install $300~ish....and it'll be 20 months until they see profit again...plus the call itself cost $20.

You sit there thinking "I deserved it" but you just put your account "in the red" for almost 2 years.

If you demand this once a year, you might be a "good paying customer", but they're taking a loss on you. Sure...the dish on your home is an advertisement, and if you move and leave it up, the potential for new subscribers is raised...but aside from that, You're like the guy who comes into the grocery store, buys all the "loss leader" items (like the 50 cent half-gal of milk) and nothing else. Yes, you paid for your purchases and were polite, but if you do that and that only every month, the store owner won't bend over backward for you, and in fact, would probably prefer that you shop somewhere else because although you are a frequent customer...they're losing money when you shop.

It would be lovely if companies always did what is "right", but if you're a constant loss of money, at some point, they'd rather you go elsewhere. They won't twist your arm to leave....that would be wrong...but they won't give you extra courtesy either!

Business is business :shrug:


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Howie said:


> Hey, Tugboat, I was just telling you the facts from my perspective as a volunteer tester. Your sarcasm just makes you look like an @ss.


No, you said the CE testing program, as it is being deployed by Directv, has been done before, and cited Microsoft as one company that has done it. I was just giving you my perspective in that you were mistaken. I guess it's not legit on DBSTalk to correct someone if they state an opinion as fact. So be it. You were not giving me your perspective, you were stating a fact, and it was wrong in this case.

As for the original intent of this thread, the debate eventually turned on whether or not it is right to ask for credits relative to the TNT-HD situation, whether you watch it or not. Some believe that Directv reneged on a promise, which is not smart business, and they should receive a message from subs to not do it again (calls and credit requests); others believe it's okay to do what they did in this situation, and only people who honestly watch TNT-HD should get credits. I fall into the former group (even though I don't care about the credits per se), you fall into the latter.

Truth is, Earl injected a plea into the discussion asking people not to request a credit unless they wanted to potentially jeopardize their future "credit-worthiness" with Directv. He also indicated doing so would somehow raise his bill. I don't believe that to be the case.

I would love to find in all these threads a place where anyone who dared to disagree with Earl and the outcome was not being attacked by members of his flock. It's a recurring theme, and just the way people fawn on his every word, post, etc., speaks volumes. And that's not an attack on Earl, just an observation.

As for the sarcasm, I apologize.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

Man O Man, just switch to the non-HD channel if it means that much


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Ext 721 said:


> let's say they have a system in place that makes a decision...a solid business decision "how much is this customer worth"?
> 
> let's say based on your package, you spend $80 a month, and of that $80, $15 is profit.
> 
> ...


Did you stop to think why Directv has had to shell out all the credits? Because their products were defective!!! As I said, I didn't receive a single credit in 6 years with them (2000-2006), but in the past year, I had hundreds of dollars in credits (and most of them offered, without asking). Why is that? Because they screwed up, and didn't want to lose all that future income from a person who pays $140 a month for their services.

Yes, business is business. They made a business decision to pay me off for the problems their gear caused. How can you blame the customer for all of this?

Trust me, Comcast would welcome every Directv customer, credits or no credits, considering how much they will collect year after year in fees.

Think about it. From 2000-2006, my bill was at least $100 a month. That's $7,200. What is their profit margin? I don't know, but it's not $20 per month. So they have collected a decent sum from me, and gave me a good experience in return. Now, the past year has been anything but a good experience. They give me $400 in credits. Are they still ahead? You bet your butt they are. And if I stick with them for the next 10 years, they'll make even more. Especially if they stop giving me equipment that fails, signals that are pixelated, sound dropouts, etc.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tugboat said:


> Truth is, Earl injected a plea into the discussion asking people not to request a credit unless they wanted to potentially jeopardize their future "credit-worthiness" with Directv. He also indicated doing so would somehow raise his bill. I don't believe that to be the case.
> 
> I would love to find in all these threads a place where anyone who dared to disagree with Earl and the outcome was not being attacked by members of his flock. It's a recurring theme, and just the way people fawn on his every word, post, etc., speaks volumes. And that's not an attack on Earl, just an observation.


So this is about "me" again?

Yawn...

Take a look at the DoD / VoD discussion threads....
There where people asking for my head on a stick...

You are by far more welcome to challenge my opinion on something..
But don't go "crying" oh... it is Earl... so he can't be challenged... When you are challenged on your opinion.

Bottom line is... I posted as a consumer... a customer... 
And one that has been around this game for a VERY long time...
One that has followed the threads, and topics... and not just related to DirecTV... but other companies.

As a consumer that doesn't "call" just because some other guy got a credit.

So yes... I interjected my opinion, into this *discussion*...
And if you don't think that friviless credits being thrown around are going to have an ultimate affect on your bill.... welll then....


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## paulfife (Sep 6, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> No, you said the CE testing program, as it is being deployed by Directv, has been done before, and cited Microsoft as one company that has done it. I was just giving you my perspective in that you were mistaken. I guess it's not legit on DBSTalk to correct someone if they state an opinion as fact. So be it. You were not giving me your perspective, you were stating a fact, and it was wrong in this case.


Actually lots of people pay Microsoft to get access to pre-release software through the MSDN program. It is also pretty typical that existing customers can get early access to new software by signing up to be a beta tester (unpaid). In some cases the customer may get a discount on any upgrade fees when the product launches, but not always.

In this case the customer is paying for a service and not the software which is a pretty important distinction. Since there is no upgrade fee when the software is released to the general public there is no argument on that part either. The CE program is pretty typical for beta programs where actual customers get their hands on the software - really.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> As for the sarcasm, I apologize.


Apology accepted. Take care, and enjoy all the new HD coming down the pike.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tugboat said:


> Did you stop to think why Directv has had to shell out all the credits? Because their products were defective!!! As I said, I didn't receive a single credit in 6 years with them (2000-2006), but in the past year, I had hundreds of dollars in credits (and most of them offered, without asking). Why is that? Because they screwed up, and didn't want to lose all that future income from a person who pays $140 a month for their services.
> 
> Yes, business is business. They made a business decision to pay me off for the problems their gear caused. How can you blame the customer for all of this?
> 
> ...


So you got credits when you complained about a legitimate case of where you had something go wrong....

What exact show did you miss this Sunday on TNT-HD?
What exact programming did you miss this Sunday?


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So you got credits when you complained about a legitimate case of where you had something go wrong....
> 
> What exact show did you miss this Sunday on TNT-HD?
> What exact programming did you miss this Sunday?


People just keep ignoring the fact that credits were far and few between until August/September 2006 at Directv. Why? You know the answer. Some $15 credits for this TNT-HD scenario are not at the heart of the credit debate. Do people take advantage? Of course. But those $15 credits pale compared the big ones Directv was gladly giving out last fall. Otherwise, they would lose some of the best paying customers. It's not the customers fault, is my point. If Directv had stayed the course and offered a solid piece of hardware from day one, there wouldn't even be a "credit" discussion. But they didn't, and there is.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tugboat said:


> People just keep ignoring the fact that credits were far and few between until August/September 2006 at Directv. Why? You know the answer. Some $15 credits for this TNT-HD scenario are not at the heart of the credit debate. Do people take advantage? Of course. But those $15 credits pale compared the big ones Directv was gladly giving out last fall. Otherwise, they would lose some of the best paying customers. It's not the customers fault, is my point. If Directv had stayed the course and offered a solid piece of hardware from day one, there wouldn't even be a "credit" discussion. But they didn't, and there is.


But this particular thread... is NOT about credit's being issues for something with their hardware, or something that directly affected them.
It is not about the entire "credit" issues with DirecTV... this particular thread, and my posts on the topic... are specifically targetting this particular case.

This is about TNT and it being turned off, for a few hours.

And people wanting to call and ask for credit, for something that had no impact to them.

That's it...

If anyone has a problem, and they feel they should be compensated... then sure enough... they should call and request.

And I am not accusing you of calling for a TNT Credit, just because.
If you were affected by the TNT being shutdown... and it was too the point that you feel that you should be compensated $30 ($5 a month for 6 months).... have at it.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I think it is pretty bad that Mr. Shanks proudly stated that no channels would be turned off this year, and then TNT HD disappeared. I think it reflects poorly on D*.

However, I am not calling for credits and am frankly amazed that anyone would do so, just because he lost one channel for one day for a few hours.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

paulman182 said:


> I think it is pretty bad that Mr. Shanks proudly stated that no channels would be turned off this year, and then TNT HD disappeared. I think it reflects poorly on D*.
> 
> However, I am not calling for credits and am frankly amazed that anyone would do so, just because he lost one channel for one day for a few hours.


Does anyone have the links to the quotes by Mr. Shanks...


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Wow!!! If you miss TNT HD that much call and get what a $ .30 credit on your bill. I don't think anything was missed. Wasn't it just a SD feed streached to fit an HD screen???


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Does anyone have the links to the quotes by Mr. Shanks...


http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvhdtwo082907.htm

But Shanks said DIRECTV will not need to drop an existing HDTV channel from the lineup to make room for the high-def games each Sunday, as it did last year.

"We will do some shuffling to make room, but there will be no dropping of HD channels like last year," he said.

Maybe he doesn't consider TNT....HD.:lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MikeR said:


> http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvhdtwo082907.htm
> 
> But Shanks said DIRECTV will not need to drop an existing HDTV channel from the lineup to make room for the high-def games each Sunday, as it did last year.
> 
> ...


Thanks..


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

jcurrier31 said:


> 13 channels of HD
> 24 hours a day
> 30 days a month
> 
> ...


As I mentioned earlier it's about $0.0192 and I rounded up to 2 cents. I wish D* would give the cry babies the credit they deserve, maybe they wouldn't waste anybodies time next week. The same HD they are crying about wouldn't even be possible without the $$$$ we pay for our sports subscriptions.


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## markman07 (Dec 22, 2005)

Hey I just found a dime on the sidewalk walking to work! No call needed now, I found my credit right there in front of me! 

Other ways to earn credits -

#1 Recycle cans.
#2 Look under couch cushions.
#3 Wait until Halloween and beg for candy.

That's my two cents (hey and even with that I am still ahead)


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

paulfife said:


> Actually lots of people pay Microsoft to get access to pre-release software through the MSDN program. It is also pretty typical that existing customers can get early access to new software by signing up to be a beta tester (unpaid). In some cases the customer may get a discount on any upgrade fees when the product launches, but not always.
> 
> In this case the customer is paying for a service and not the software which is a pretty important distinction. Since there is no upgrade fee when the software is released to the general public there is no argument on that part either. The CE program is pretty typical for beta programs where actual customers get their hands on the software - really.


Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. But you see my point. The poster said this is common. But I am a consumer of many, many tech-related products, including Microsoft software (naturally), and this is the first time I have seen so much volunteer work done on basically a consumer electronics hardware device (not a piece of software), and that includes (dare I say) our Directivos. Certainly, Directv is boating in uncharted waters in a lot of ways, but that means little to customers who expect their stuff to work, without a year of beta testing, etc. In the meantime, the MPEG4/HR20 launch was conducted without this testing on the front end, which is somewhat illogical.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But this particular thread... is NOT about credit's being issues for something with their hardware, or something that directly affected them.
> It is not about the entire "credit" issues with DirecTV... this particular thread, and my posts on the topic... are specifically targetting this particular case.
> 
> This is about TNT and it being turned off, for a few hours.
> ...


Understood. Again, the entire concept of getting credits easily came about because Directv opened that Pandora's box last year (and saw no real recourse). So this is about the entire credit issue. It's what Directv chose to use as its instrument of change. Of course there will be abuse. And of course, that doesn't make it right. But Directv is at fault, not the customer. I understand your warning in this specific case, but it's sad people have to be warned at all. The blame lies with Directv in this case is my main point.


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## paulfife (Sep 6, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. But you see my point. The poster said this is common. But I am a consumer of many, many tech-related products, including Microsoft software (naturally), and this is the first time I have seen so much volunteer work done on basically a consumer electronics hardware device (not a piece of software), and that includes (dare I say) our Directivos. Certainly, Directv is boating in uncharted waters in a lot of ways, but that means little to customers who expect their stuff to work, without a year of beta testing, etc. In the meantime, the MPEG4/HR20 launch was conducted without this testing on the front end, which is somewhat illogical.


Just speculating here, but almost certainly the CE program is a supplement to their existing internal testing which I'm sure is pretty thorough. I will agree that my past experience with beta programs has been that their existence is a little more under the radar, however, I think this sort of thing will be more common given the way online communities are these days. It's a very easy way for companies to identify their most enthusiastic customers, which is really what has happened in the past where certain customers are invited to join if they are interested. I'm sure a CE release has already been through a lot of standard testing and the "volunteer" work is something that works out to be beneficial on both ends. People are interested in getting early access and being able to influence the product, and DirecTV gets valuable input.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

paulfife said:


> Just speculating here, but almost certainly the CE program is a supplement to their existing internal testing which I'm sure is pretty thorough. I will agree that my past experience with beta programs has been that their existence is a little more under the radar, however, I think this sort of thing will be more common given the way online communities are these days. It's a very easy way for companies to identify their most enthusiastic customers, which is really what has happened in the past where certain customers are invited to join if they are interested. I'm sure a CE release has already been through a lot of standard testing and the "volunteer" work is something that works out to be beneficial on both ends. People are interested in getting early access and being able to influence the product, and DirecTV gets valuable input.


Logical too. We may see more of it, but let's hope it's more to test new features, and less to fix a ton of problems. The CE example here really got its start to fix a horrible raft of problems/issues from the get-go, not to test added features, upgrades, etc. At least if you go back to the early days, that was the case.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

paulfife said:


> Just speculating here, but almost certainly the CE program is a supplement to their existing internal testing which I'm sure is pretty thorough.


Go back and look at the posts from the first six months of the release of both the R15 and HR20 and see if you come to the same conclusion that D*'s internal testing is thorough.

IMO, it's a bit scary to think where either box would be (and the R15 still isn't great) without this community.


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## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

+1


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

jcurrier31 said:


> As I mentioned earlier it's about $0.0192 and I rounded up to 2 cents. I wish D* would give the cry babies the credit they deserve, maybe they wouldn't waste anybodies time next week. The same HD they are crying about wouldn't even be possible without the $$$$ we pay for our sports subscriptions.


Sorry, while I don;t really care about the compensation, the main problem is the principle behind the whole thing. How would you feel if you went and paid 2.70 for a gallon of fuel but because all the other pumps where on and exceeded the station's capacity to deliever said fuel, they only gave you 0.888 of one gallon instead. Same exact thing. Doubt if you would be happy with it now would you?

Horse hockey on sports paying for the HD, HD was in existing before they started broadcasting the game in HD, so that is a illogical and invalid statement.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> Sorry, while I don;t really care about the compensation, the main problem is the principle behind the whole thing. How would you feel if you went and paid 2.70 for a gallon of fuel but because all the other pumps where on and exceeded the station's capacity to deliever said fuel, they only gave you 0.888 of one gallon instead. Same exact thing. Doubt if you would be happy with it now would you?
> 
> Horse hockey on sports paying for the HD, HD was in existing before they started broadcasting the game in HD, so that is a illogical and invalid statement.


I look at it as me filing up for gas and getting regular instead of supreme. Am I annoyed? Ya, a little but as long as it gets me from A-B...i can live with it

You still have TNT


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## cb7214 (Jan 25, 2007)

heres another angle what would the difference be between this and if you have a day of bad storms and your signal is out or crappy for most of the day or even for a few hours, do you call then and want the credit for your down time then too? I know its different as to the cause D* turning it off vs Mother Nature but the result is the same


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## falken (Jun 14, 2007)

cb7214 said:


> heres another angle what would the difference be between this and if you have a day of bad storms and your signal is out or crappy for most of the day or even for a few hours, do you call then and want the credit for your down time then too? I know its different as to the cause D* turning it off vs Mother Nature but the result is the same


If your ISP turned off your internet access or limited your access to certian websites because bandwidth demands were too high that day there would be no cause to be upset or want a credit, right?

If your internet went out because your router died, or the electric went out you would not be able to access the internet. Result is the same, so what difference does it make?


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> Horse hockey on sports paying for the HD, HD was in existing before they started broadcasting the game in HD, so that is a illogical and invalid statement.


Take away Sunday ticket and the rest of the specialized sports packages and D* will probably lose half it's customers. This was well before any HD was available. So the 10+ years of us paying for ST and other packages opened the door financially for D* to grow. Do you think with half the customers they would still be able to R&D the system.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't hear about too many E* new sats going up to produce more HD. Most specialized Programming seeks out D* because of it's large customer base largely do to Sports packaging.


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## paulfife (Sep 6, 2006)

raott said:


> Go back and look at the posts from the first six months of the release of both the R15 and HR20 and see if you come to the same conclusion that D*'s internal testing is thorough.
> 
> IMO, it's a bit scary to think where either box would be (and the R15 still isn't great) without this community.


Lol, well I'm a software developer and have seen things go through thorough testing and had tons of problems on release once the number of variables goes from hundreds to thousands or higher. Not that I don't believe that someone requiring a hard release date isn't also partially to blame, just that hindsight is always 20/20 when looking at testing configurations.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

jcurrier31 said:


> Take away Sunday ticket and the rest of the specialized sports packages and D* will probably lose half it's customers. This was well before any HD was available. So the 10+ years of us paying for ST and other packages opened the door financially for D* to grow. Do you think with half the customers they would still be able to R&D the system.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't hear about too many E* new sats going up to produce more HD. Most specialized Programming seeks out D* because of it's large customer base largely do to Sports packaging.


From my reading E* has new sats going up. OTOH they weren't overloaded for capacity and have been adding HD steadily. Last was History HD some other last month and I believe 6 or 9 HD PPVs shortly. Now I was just reading they'll be doing BTN in HD when available. If D* has started BTN HD last weekend or even just the SD maybe that is what has caused the impact where they needed to shut down TNT HD again after all. BTN is what up to 6 or 7 games at the same time?

The other problem with sports is highbandwidth requirements for rapid movement, Short periods of time and so on.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Earl just sent out the announcement for the latest CE........let us focus our time there, not on TNTHD that was airing upconverted SD anyway......come on guys, over to the Anticipation Thread......here we go.......


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