# YouTube TV finally adds Viacom/CBS Channels



## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

YouTube TV finally added the rest of the channels, BET Her, Dabl, MTV2, MTV Classic, Nick Jr, NickToons, and Teen Nick that they had been charging for the last 9 months ($15). 

If they messed up more of their roku app programming, we'll all find out in short order. I finally emailed a comprehensive report detailing all the programming mistakes google has made with their roku apps over the last month yesterday, mistakes/changes they had made without the required submission to roku's programming checks, as required by their agreement with Roku to be included in the app store.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Unbelievably, there are 'journalists' out there that are joyful that fees were not hiked with the addition of this second round of viacom/cbs channels. Stupid! As subscribers have been paying for these channels for 9+ months since the last rate hike, yet not actually receiving them! 

This as the national internet grid has been melting down the last 72+ hours, resulting in transfer rates dropping anywhere from down to zero to a trickle. Go to downdetector to watch the mess IF you can get to the website.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

These will go toward the next price increase. Never mind the thought that they should be included in the last one.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Haven't noticed any internet melting down here (Illinois) the last 72 hours.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> These will go toward the next price increase. Never mind the thought that they should be included in the last one.


Yeah. Late this year or maybe early next, I expect we'll see YTTV add some or all of the rest of the channels they're missing (History, A&E, Lifetime, Hallmark, Hallmark M&M) and bump the price again up to $70 or $75. And maybe at some point they'll extend that odd 9-month retention period on cloud DVR recordings out to an even year.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> Haven't noticed any internet melting down here (Illinois) the last 72 hours.


If your isp has direct fiber to closest google and/or microsoft server plant, which avoids the public internet when you are streaming from the large streamers like netflix et al, you might not, but try and contact or transfer data across the country you're in big problems. Chicago is a big red splotch on the downdetector web site, as are all other major cities across the nation.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

James Long said:


> These will go toward the next price increase. Never mind the thought that they should be included in the last one.


Unfortunately you're probably correct. Disney bumbed up a buck, the disney/espn/hulu bundle got bumped as well. Then tmobile yanked home internet up $60/month. Here we go.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

At home I have Spectrum Residential 10/200 service and at work we have Spectrum Enterprise 50/50 service and we have customers that upload to our web server many times a day from all over the country. Haven't noticed any problems either sending or receiving files to/from any locations all week.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Then it may be comcast only related, do you know who they use for their tier 1 transport?


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

No I do not have any idea.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

1948GG said:


> Then it may be comcast only related, do you know who they use for their tier 1 transport?


No problems here (not Chicago but fed off of their market). I have a remote desktop connection up constantly and have seen no failures.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Comcast has been aligned with level3 for ages, they (level3) have acquired by several companies, including Global Crossing (which is when I first started doing some engineering with them) and wiltel then GC got bought by level3 then eventually it all got bought by CenturyTel, which is now Lumen. But as Comcast uses them for nationwide transport, it tends to manage a lot of the network as a kind of 'network within a network'; exactly where the management lines are, are hazy. I'll bet when major screwups occur, like now, lots of finger pointing occur. Most if not all users simply want it fixed, and so far it hasn't.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Well, didn't take long for the incompetent google programmers at youtube tv to start screwing things up. Today's obvious mistake: used to be able to fast scan the live grid by holding the down or up arrow on the remote, that's been taken out of the roku app, you have to single click to move in any direction, which since there are upwards of 120+ channels now takes forever to move around.

In addition, Several of the channels added a couple days ago no longer appear in the 'quick networks' guide, which are brought up by the remote down arrow from any playing program. 

These are obvious mistakes, unless of course they intended to make navigation of their app harder an more convoluted, that's a distinct possibility.

Yet more: when playing a dvr'd program, using the fast forward or rewind no longer increases the speed if one holds down the button; the speed stays at '15sec'. The result is it taken forever to scroll around the program, a particular problem as the 'resume from last watch' or ' start from the beginning' of the program usually do not operate correctly and need to be adjusted by the ff or rewind.

Why are the google programmers not seeing these errors? Just lazy would be my guess.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

1948GG said:


> Well, didn't take long for the incompetent google programmers at youtube tv to start screwing things up. Today's obvious mistake: used to be able to fast scan the live grid by holding the down or up arrow on the remote, that's been taken out of the roku app, you have to single click to move in any direction, which since there are upwards of 120+ channels now takes forever to move around.
> 
> In addition, Several of the channels added a couple days ago no longer appear in the 'quick networks' guide, which are brought up by the remote down arrow from any playing program.
> 
> ...


I've consistently seen folks complain about issues running the YTTV app on the Roku platform. Not sure why they don't fix it. We don't do Roku (FireTV, Nvidia Shield, and ATV 4K) so really haven't seen many issues.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> I've consistently seen folks complain about issues running the YTTV app on the Roku platform. Not sure why they don't fix it. We don't do Roku (FireTV, Nvidia Shield, and ATV 4K) so really haven't seen many issues.


Which is funny because I see a lot of people also complain about the ATT TV app on Roku also. Maybe there is a common denominator


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

compnurd said:


> Which is funny because I see a lot of people also complain about the ATT TV app on Roku also. Maybe there is a common denominator


My guess would be that in both cases the main target environment is Android and since Roku is a custom Linux build it suffers when they port the app code. No excuse though. They should put the time and effort into it.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

compnurd said:


> Which is funny because I see a lot of people also complain about the ATT TV app on Roku also. Maybe there is a common denominator


Funny, I feel like I've seen folks saying that Roku has the best AT&T TV app while Apple TV has the worst.

That said, I do get the sense that Roku is a more difficult platform to develop for.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Funny, I feel like I've seen folks saying that Roku has the best AT&T TV app while Apple TV has the worst.
> 
> That said, I do get the sense that Roku is a more difficult platform to develop for.


On Reddit.. Roku is the number 1 platform i see complaints about buffering etc with ATT TV


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

compnurd said:


> On Reddit.. Roku is the number 1 platform i see complaints about buffering etc with ATT TV


With my Roku Ultra the ATT TV app is the best version other than what's on the Osprey box. The worst problem on it is that if you skip a few times it often loses lipsync requiring you to exit and restart the app. Otherwise I haven't had any other issue with ATT TV and Roku. To be fair I don't use it as often as other boxes though.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

The loss of lip-sync is a problem that's been there for literally years. The 'fix' has been to 'bump' the stream reverse (or with a dvr'd program forward) just a bit and that would generally get it to sync. 

The last couple of weeks, that's been the one thing that has tended to dissapear; you could see the system take a few seconds extra when changing streams, like from live to dvr or the reverse, where it took a bit of thinking to insure the sync was there. At least, that's what it appeared to do. 

Of course, I've never had a sync problem with any other roku app, from netflix to hbo max, but I dont subscribe to att tv. The only other 'live' app (other than yttv) I use on a regular basis is locast, and I've never seen sync problem with that. Or indeed pluto tv which has some 'live' channels as well (never had sync problems ever on it as well).

But as until recently it was a continual problem with yttv, I'm not surprised other apps have the same kind if problem.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Funny, I feel like I've seen folks saying that Roku has the best AT&T TV app while Apple TV has the worst.
> 
> That said, I do get the sense that Roku is a more difficult platform to develop for.


Actually, it's one of the easiest, as shown by the length and breath of the apps that it has, which is why I chose it over other boxes. But that apparent ease perhaps has led flaky programmers (and ones who don't test their product out very well if at all) to think they've done a good job.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

1948GG said:


> Actually, it's one of the easiest, as shown by the length and breath of the apps that it has, which is why I chose it over other boxes.


It has a ton of apps because there have been so many Rokus sold. Early on, Roku did offer devs a basic template that many used -- it was really basic and ugly-looking, but a lot of apps were built on it. But Roku phased all those apps awhile back, forcing devs to create more graphically sophisticated apps for the platform. They needed that to happen because old-style Roku apps were looking increasingly dated compared to apps for Fire TV and Apple TV.

Roku is challenged by the fact that it's its own separate thing. Fire TV and Android TV are just extensions of Android, the world's most popular mobile OS. And Apple's tvOS is, of course, just an extension of the iPhone's iOS, which also has a ton of developers and extensive developer tools. But Roku is just Roku.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Roku just a month or so ago came out with a new developer toolkit to help folks yank their apps up to supporting the newer units. 

But at the end if the day, it's still up to those developers to thoroughly test their product, and submit that product to roku for their testing, before the app is allowed to be listed on their site and boxes. But it appears to me that many are making changes they believe are 'small' and don't need to be roku checked, and that's what is getting them into trouble. So in one sense, its roku that is helping to cause the problems. One thing for sure, I'll continue to send bug reports as I find them, period. I pay good $$$ for access to these apps, and I expect them to run right; and I don't see the flood of problems yttv has on any others.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

1948GG said:


> I pay good $$$ for access to these apps, and I expect them to run right; and I don't see the flood of problems yttv has on any others.


I use a lot of Google stuff (Pixel phone, Nest Hub, Nest Mini speakers, plus various apps and services) and I can tell you that they're very, very fond of continually iterating their software/UIs/features. And generally, over time, that continual tinkering is for the better. But it can definitely introduce bugs and frustrations along the way.

All that to say, if you're looking for the stability and reliability of a traditional cable TV service, I don't know if YTTV is the best option for you. I'm not sure if any streaming cable TV service is, really, but one from Google might be especially vexing for you.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Cable stable and reliable? Exactly when (or where), pray? I've had CBand, Dbs (both DirecTV and Dish), and basic cable throughout (from 1982-2018) to get local channels, and the almost daily outages and screwups had me reaching for the sat remote more often than not. This was not just in one city or area, but in at least 15+ across the US. 

YouTube tv worked almost perfectly, the biggest problem being the lip- sync, since I subscribed when psvue went under. Its only been the last 3+ weeks that it's really gone downhill, along I might add with YouTube, as they added 'neat' things like the starting screens and the like. 

None of the problems added are hard to find or replicate. Anybody doing a simple review of its operation would find them. But that's the point: the programmers aren't doing any review.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Anyone launching yttv this morning will notice that changes have been made to the app, as it will reload. However, the major problems I've noted in the last couple weeks are still there, from live grid no longer fast scanning (up or down, single click/step only), ff or rew scanning of dvr'd program stuck at 15sec per click (no longer speeding up when button is held down) to roku screensaver launching when live or dvr'd program is paused. In short, to visable changes I have yet noticed.

In talking to my neighbor, they noticed the quick channel scan (launched by pressing the down arrow on a live program) has slowed down going left or right. I hadn't quite noticed that as it is still fairly fast, but it has slowed down. So that's another mistake.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

1948GG said:


> Cable stable and reliable? Exactly when (or where), pray? I've had CBand, Dbs (both DirecTV and Dish), and basic cable throughout (from 1982-2018) to get local channels, and the almost daily outages and screwups had me reaching for the sat remote more often than not. This was not just in one city or area, but in at least 15+ across the US.


LOL, sounds like you're someone who finds fault with everything then.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

1948GG said:


> Anyone launching yttv this morning will notice that changes have been made to the app, as it will reload. However, the major problems I've noted in the last couple weeks are still there, from live grid no longer fast scanning (up or down, single click/step only), ff or rew scanning of dvr'd program stuck at 15sec per click (no longer speeding up when button is held down) to roku screensaver launching when live or dvr'd program is paused. In short, to visable changes I have yet noticed.
> 
> In talking to my neighbor, they noticed the quick channel scan (launched by pressing the down arrow on a live program) has slowed down going left or right. I hadn't quite noticed that as it is still fairly fast, but it has slowed down. So that's another mistake.


On my Roku Ultra 2020 the YTTV app live guide has fast scanning and ff/REW scanning is working as it should. 15 sec for a bump, speed changes the longer I hold down the right/left buttons.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> On my Roku Ultra 2020 the YTTV app live guide has fast scanning and ff/REW scanning is working as it should. 15 sec for a bump, speed changes the longer I hold down the right/left buttons.


None of mine do, including my ultra. Do you have your app updates turned off, so you have never gotten the recent changes? Which google server plant are you off of, perhaps today's changes haven't fully populated their system yet. Kind of grabbing at straws, as google complaints are mostly shut down on the weekends.

Flash: was watching some preseason mlb on mlb app, and thought I'd try yttv as it has been 6+ hours, and I got another app update; now lots if things work as before, except for the stream pause, but still tries to load another app when you unpause the stream. So my 'local' google servers (btw, john day Oregon is mine) hadn't quite been updated this morning (6+ hours ago). So disabling the roku screensaver is still the 'fix' for the pause problem.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

1948GG said:


> None of mine do, including my ultra. Do you have your app updates turned off, so you have never gotten the recent changes? Which google server plant are you off of, perhaps today's changes haven't fully populated their system yet. Kind of grabbing at straws, as google complaints are mostly shut down on the weekends.


No, updates are set to auto and I usually check at least once when I'm actually using it. And no clue which Google server plant I'm off of and don't know how to find out.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Google it of course. There are 13 in the US.

First time I was there (The Dalles, OR) was at the old facility in 1998, Google bought out the partners and constructed the current facility in 2006. Last time I there was in 2017, I've also been to the Microsoft and AWS plants around washington state and if I go back far enough many of the facilities in Virginia, Mass., Conneticut, New York and New Jersey; the number of transcontinental and transoceanic fiber systems almost too numerous to mention, over 40 years.

I'll bet everyone knows where their local tv station towers are located (their antennas now or back in the day had to be pointed there), and now that the internet is just as important as that was and perhaps still is, folks should know where these important facilities are in relation to their location.
If nothing else, they'll know which direction to ***** at when their feeds collapse.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Does it have a preview window when fast forwarding?


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

YouTube TV still has the HBOMax auto renew ****** up, one has to go to the app on a phone and re-initialize the link to ones main email address before it 'remembers' things.

Such a simple thing, that hasn't worked since roku approved the hbomax app so folks with roku could subscribe and get the full deal. Except the monthly re-initialization. Shows how pathetic the less than kindergarten programmers at Google are, I'd list all the mistakes that have cropped up just in the last month but as roku refuses to bring the hammer down on them it's no use.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

T-mobile offers $10 off a year for YTTV. I applied two days ago, and havent received a promo code yet. They sure are taking their good natured time. What could they possibly be checking that takes 3 days?


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