# Problem with the quality of SD on new Hopper reciever



## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

I just had a new hopper and joey upgrade from Dish to watch HD channels on our new Samsung LCD-LED tvs. The HD quality is superb and we are very pleased. However, to my surprise the quality of the images of channels with SD images with the new receivers are worse than what I remember in tv quality images in the 1950's (tells you how long I have been watching). The images are pixeled especially noticable on the edges of faces or lighter colored objects with a darker background. It is even more noticable with movement. Neither of the screens are large one is 24" and the other 40". Both displayed very nice SD images using the old receivers we had before the up grade so I know it has nothing to do with a defect in the tvs. Does anyone have advice for me to address this? Are both the new receivers defective? Is there a conflict in settings between the receivers and the Tv? Does the Hopper (and Joey) not handle SD output adequately?


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry but I realize that my post was to the wrong forum. If the moderator would kindly remove this, I will repost to one of the other forums here.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Moved to a better forum ...


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

You can try pressing the * format button and set it to normal or Grey bar which displays 4x3 format instead of stretching the sd picture to fit your 16x9 tv. Taking a sd picture and stretching it makes it look horrible.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

I just had a new hopper and joey upgrade from Dish to watch HD channels on our new Samsung LCD-LED tvs. The HD quality is superb and we are very pleased about that. However, to my surprise the quality of the images of SD only channels are worse than what I remember since the 1950's (tells you how long I have been watching). The images are pixeled especially noticable on the edges of faces or lighter colored objects with a darker background. It is even more noticable with movement. Neither of the screens are large one is 24" and the other 40". Both displayed very nice SD images using the old receivers we had before the up grade so I know it has nothing to do with a defect in the tvs. 

Looking at the Satellite set up we have two - 61.5 and 72. However, I can only get strength readings on sat 72 but the check switch test result says everything is great!!

Is there a trick to getting signal strength on sat 61.5? Does the Hopper (and Joey) not handle SD output adequately?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Duplicate threads merged. Did not delete thread-starter's duplicate post, because he said slightly different things in each one._


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

On the point dish screen, and try selecting sat 61.5 and transponder 21 and give it a few seconds to lock on. I believe transponder 21 is 61.5s home transponder.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

I did try the format button on those SD channels but there was no difference. I know what you mean about the 'stretched' image of full and magnified displays.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

When I went to the signal strength page to try your suggestion and I must have left the satellite on 61.5 when I canceled out of diagnostics a while back. It had transponder 2 selected and signal strength around 75 for all three tuners. It may be that to check each satellite you have to leave it selected when closing the page and then come back to it. I had earlier gone through everyone of the transponders, one after another, earlier this evening and got no signal.


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

I have a 65 inch and I just tuned to an sd channel and set the format to normal and the picture looks fine and none of the issues you mentioned above.


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

FrankH;3169130 said:


> When I went to the signal strength page to try your suggestion and I must have left the satellite on 61.5 when I canceled out of diagnostics a while back. It had transponder 2 selected and signal strength around 75 for all three tuners. It may be that to check each satellite you have to leave it selected when closing the page and then come back to it. I had earlier gone through everyone of the transponders, one after another, earlier this evening and got no signal.


The Sat and trans listed on point dish when you first open is the sat and trans for the last channel you were viewing before entering the point dish menu. That sounds like some sort of fluke if no trans showed signal on 61.5 after running a check switch and having it pass.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

strange indeed. The old receiver displayed both satellite signal strengths so there was no reason to go back and forth. So apparently the problem is not with a lack of sat. signal (another post from a user nearby mentioned similar levels using the eastern sat group after his installation).


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

FrankH;3169135 said:


> strange indeed. The old receiver displayed both satellite signal strengths so there was no reason to go back and forth. So apparently the problem is not with a lack of sat. signal (another post from a user nearby mentioned similar levels using the eastern sat group after his installation).


What do you mean by both sat signal strengths? Point dish is basically the same on the Hopper as a 722 or older receiver in that regard. It only displays one satellite and transponder signal strength at once and you can change the sat and trans on screen to view signal.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

Been a long time since I did the signal strength tests but thats what I remember. G'nite


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

some guy said:


> I have a 65 inch and I just tuned to an sd channel and set the format to normal and the picture looks fine and none of the issues you mentioned above.


I have a 73" DLP set and just switched from D*. I'm on EA as is the OP and I think the SD is great in comparison. About the best SD I've seen from either provider, but it is somewhat channel specific.

One of the locals is a very bit-starved sub-channel that doesn't look really good no matter if you get it off the OTA antenna or satellite.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

There have been a couple of postings I've seen were Dish has tried to explain this away as being related to screen size. But having seen how pretty good it looked before the switch I know this has to do with the new receiver sets. I tried changing to lower resolutions as suggested by others but no joy. Another 'anomoly' is the change in display size after the upgrade.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Most of the mistakes you could make in setup would also affect HD channels (choosing the wrong output resolution, connecting using the SD connections on the Hopper or Joey). I am not one of those snobs that "never watches SD" but I can't remember the last SD channel I watched for any length of time (CSPAN when they were taking the cliff votes?).

Testing a few SD channels this morning I don't see anything specific to the Hopper to complain about. Postage stamp programs and channels are annoying. But that isn't Hopper specific. SD should always be lower quality than HD.

You have not mentioned the exact receiver you came from ... that might help to understand what you are seeing. Also were there other changes? Did you move from Western Arc to Eastern Arc? What channels are you having the most problems on?


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

I had Dish 500, sw44, sw21. It was installed in 2001 and the receiver CAID no R003047-2501. The upgrade dish is directed to the eastern satellite 65.1 and 72. The old set up was to the western set 110 and 119.

The Outdoor channel, EWTN, The Blaze, FoxSouth sports channel for a Predator hockey game, ESPNU. The images seem better when the there is more light in the background like on a basketball court, but dark backgrounds make it more noticable. The image reminds me of low resolution jpg images.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The SD differences are probably the difference between MPEG2 on the Western Arc and MPEG4 on the Eastern Arc. Even Western Arc MPEG2 does not live up to the old NTSC over the air standard you are remembering in your initial posts. MPEG4 is a more compressed signal.

I got Eastern Arc in 2006 with the 622 receiver ... so I've been watching (until each were upgraded to HD) MPEG4 SD feeds for several years. I did not see any additional quality changes when converting to the Hopper last year.

Some SD channels barely give DISH anything to work with ... they arrive compressed and DISH recompresses them for rebroadcast. I can see where "JPG" quality comes into play ... especially on a 480i feed. It has been many years since I had a 480i camera for stills - yet SD television is still severely limited by a low number of pixels.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

What your saying makes sense. I was not aware that the two 'arcs' would use different formats for SD. Would that also explain why the SD image sizes on the tv differ from that with the easter arc?

Thus it does not appear that the problem is with the receivers at all but which satellites the dish is pointed at? Where this is leading me I guess is to either live with it or see if the installer will reposition the dish. He had changed it to the eastern arc because of some trees on my neighbor's property. Our problem is that a number of channels we watch are still SD. Would have been nice to have both good SD and great HD!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If your HD locals are on both arcs a reposition may be possible ... it would require a different DISH and your neighbor's trees may be a problem.

The SD channels should be the same aspect ratios on both arcs ... letterboxed on one should be letterboxed on the other. I am not aware of any channels that are cropped/letterboxed differently based on the arc.


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## FrankH (Jan 25, 2013)

I will talk to the installer since the dish is not yet in the ground but on a stand about moving it past the problematic tree group. It would be about a 60-70' move. Do you know if Dish allows 'longer' placements like this besides the close to the home one. I'm sure it's more expensive in the wire but I'm sure they got plenty of it. Thanks for the help.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Let me just say... I am on eastern arc... and on my 922, ESPNU looks pretty bad.

I was just commenting the other day while trying to watch an ACC basketball game how one team was one color of blob and the other team was another color of blob... and it was hard to tell much of anything.

So... some channels are pretty bad in SD.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

FrankH said:


> I will talk to the installer since the dish is not yet in the ground but on a stand about moving it past the problematic tree group. It would be about a 60-70' move. Do you know if Dish allows 'longer' placements like this besides the close to the home one. I'm sure it's more expensive in the wire but I'm sure they got plenty of it. Thanks for the help.


There is a limit of how far the dish can be away from the receiver ... which would also include the length of cable inside your home (dish to hub+hub to Hopper).


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## dstout (Jul 19, 2005)

ESPNU is almost un-watchable in SD on DISH. I would prefer to listen to a radio feed of a game that watch it on ESPNU on DISH.


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