# WB and UPN to cease operations....replaced by new network...



## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/nytu143.html?.v=43

CBS and Warner have decided to combine their efforts to create a single, fifth, network. This goes into effect Sept. of 2006.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

Now the question is, how willl the affiliations fall out in the markets where both stations are affiliates? Will the present WB or UPN station get the priority?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

mnassour said:


> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/nytu143.html?.v=43
> 
> CBS and Warner have decided to combine their efforts to create a single, fifth, network. This goes into effect Sept. of 2006.


I can't believe it. WB has always been geared towards teens and UPN more towards African Americans. It will be hard to believe it won't be called "The WB" anymore. It is so well known as The WB. We have never watched UPN much at all.

Also that puts WWOR New York, WSBK Boston, WPWR Chicago, and KCOP Los Angeles all back as independents again.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Note to self: Don't complain about DirecTV's lack of WB and UPN on a national or regional level. 

And, what will Dish Network's Superstaion pack be after this merger?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

I just hope they get the Frog back!


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

jdspencer said:


> Note to self: Don't complain about DirecTV's lack of WB and UPN on a national or regional level.


Is it possible that D* saw this coming, so refused to contract for the Superstations?
These deals don't happen overnight, so I wonder if D* heard about this in advance.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

mnassour said:


> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/nytu143.html?.v=43
> 
> CBS and Warner have decided to combine their efforts to create a single, fifth, network. This goes into effect Sept. of 2006.


It's about time, they were really niche nets.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Newshawk said:


> Now the question is, how willl the affiliations fall out in the markets where both stations are affiliates? Will the present WB or UPN station get the priority?


From the press release. Only part of the story but it is all that we have

The 16 Tribune affiliated stations will include New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Houston, Miami, Denver, St. Louis, Portland, Indianapolis, San Diego, Hartford, New Orleans and Albany. The 12 CBS Station Group television markets will include Philadelphia, San Francisco, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach, Norfolk, Oklahoma City and Providence. Together, these top two station groups cover the top 13 television markets, 20 of the top 25 television markets and have a total coverage area of more than 48% of the country.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Kheldar said:


> Is it possible that D* saw this coming, so refused to contract for the Superstations?
> These deals don't happen overnight, so I wonder if D* heard about this in advance.


Personally I would rather see the superstations (or two of them) as independents-- it si mor variety.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

jdspencer said:


> And, what will Dish Network's Superstation pack be after this merger?


My guess is that it'll be a collection of four CW stations and an independent. Didn't they all used to be the primary independents for their markets?

That covers everybody except WWOR & WPIX. They can't both be CW stations, can they?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Newshawk said:


> Now the question is, how willl the affiliations fall out in the markets where both stations are affiliates? Will the present WB or UPN station get the priority?


There are 7 markets that have a Tribune owned WB Affiliate and a CBS-owned UPN Station, here's the breakdown:

Philly will get it on the CBS owned UPN Station, WPSG
Boston will get it on the Tribune owned WB Station, WLVI
Dallas will get it on the Tribune ownerd WB Station, KDAF
Atlanta will get it on the CBS owned UPN Station, WUPA
Seattle will get it on the CBS owned UPN Station, KSTW
Miami will get it on the Tribune owned WB Station, WBZL
New Orleans will get it on the Tribune owned WB Station, WNOL


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

According to the new release WPIX will be a CW affiliate. WSBK and WWOR will not be affilaites of the new network.


But I think for amny the question is broader. Obviously many ities have one station affilaited with eah. Who will be the odd man out and what will their programming be like? And what shows will survive? We have some answers but not all.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

No contract is needed to carry superstations outside of their originating market. The five superstations will remain the same.

It appears that Tribune and the old Paramount Stations Group will be the main affiliates for the new CW. Therefore, we already know how many of the affiliates will fall out:

The 16 Tribune affiliated stations will include New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Houston, Miami, Denver, St. Louis, Portland, Indianapolis, San Diego, Hartford, New Orleans and Albany. (These are the current WB affiliates)

The 12 CBS Station Group television markets will include Philadelphia, San Francisco, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach, Norfolk, Oklahoma City and Providence. (These are the UPN affiliates)


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

jdspencer said:


> And, what will Dish Network's Superstation pack be after this merger?


For the Superstions:

KWGN/Denver (WB) - Will become a CW Station
WTLA/Los Angeles (WB) - Will become a CW Station
WPIX/New York (WB) - Will become a CW Station
WSBK/Boston (UPN) - Will lose network affiliation to WLVI, Boston's current WB Station
WWOR/New York (UPN) - Will lose network affiliation to WPIX, NYC's current WB Station


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Keep in mind that Fox owns a good chunk of the UPN affiliates in larger markets, such as NY, LA, Chicago, Washington, Minneapolis, and Baltimore, to name a few. Makes me think that Fox2 isn't that far off...


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

UPN....are they still alive after Star Trek????


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I emailed the stations in the Champaign/Springfield market. I assume that the current WB affiliate owned by Acme Communications WBUI will remain the CW affiliate. The UPN affiliate in the market WCFN is not as popular. It used to be the satellite station of WCIA 3 CBS. 

WCFN's reply was they "believe" they have a long term contract with UPN. I emailed back and said well I'm sure WBUI/Acme does as well. All Acme stations are WB affiliates.


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

invaliduser88 said:


> UPN....are they still alive after Star Trek????


Veronica Mars and Everybody Hates Chris are their two "big" shows.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

KyL416 said:


> There are 7 markets that have a Tribune owned WB Affiliate and a CBS-owned UPN Station, here's the breakdown:
> 
> Philly will get it on the CBS owned UPN Station, WPSG
> Boston will get it on the Tribune owned WB Station, WLVI
> ...


I wonder how it was decided in markets where they both owned a station. I was surprised that WSBK in Boston didn't get the CW affiliation.

It will be the loss of a lot of WB and UPN station identifiers like WB 11 New York. Will it become the CW 11?


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Also interesting, this will now guarnatee national east/west feeds for The CW, as they will have more than the minimum ammount needed for this...


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I wonder if we'll see a lot of station call letters change. A lot of WB stations have WB in the call letters - KBWB San Francisco which will lose WB in September. Also a lot of UPN stations have the UP letters in their call signs.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Link said:


> I wonder how it was decided in markets where they both owned a station. I was surprised that WSBK in Boston didn't get the CW affiliation.


It was probably either the flip of a coin, or who gets the better viewership in each market, or drawn at random.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Link said:


> I wonder how it was decided in markets where they both owned a station. I was surprised that WSBK in Boston didn't get the CW affiliation.
> 
> It will be the loss of a lot of WB and UPN station identifiers like WB 11 New York. Will it become the CW 11?


tribumne won the ties which does not surprise me. They own the lion's share of stations and were giving up equity. CBS had indicated that it was less than thrilled with the losses from UPN>


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

alebowgm said:


> Also interesting, this will now guarnatee national east/west feeds for The CW, as they will have more than the minimum ammount needed for this...


Mimimum amount of what?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> tribumne won the ties which does not surprise me. They own the lion's share of stations and were giving up equity. CBS had indicated that it was less than thrilled with the losses from UPN>


Didn't UPN almost fold a few years ago??


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> Is it possible that D* saw this coming, so refused to contract for the Superstations?
> These deals don't happen overnight, so I wonder if D* heard about this in advance.


Actually, I've had this conversation with DirecTV several years ago. Long before this was even a twinkle in anyone's eye. 

I like having several timezone choices for WB and UPN, but if I can get a local OTA of CW then the Superstation Pack is history for me.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> No contract is needed to carry superstations outside of their originating market. The five superstations will remain the same.
> 
> It appears that Tribune and the old Paramount Stations Group will be the main affiliates for the new CW. Therefore, we already know how many of the affiliates will fall out:
> 
> ...


How many hours of programing is required to be considered a full time network like the Big 4? According to these news article's the CW will have programing for 30 hrs a week 7 days a week, will this be enough to be considered full time? If it is and the CW becomes a legal full time network, will they not have to give up Superstation status? It is quite possible that WWOR and WSBK may be the only true Superstations left, perhaps E* would still offer these "a la carte" at current $1.50/mo each, but I would not be surprised, that come this fall, the full Superstation package at E* will be gone forever.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Chris Freeland said:


> How many hours of programing is required to be considered a full time network like the Big 4? According to these news article's the CW will have programing for 30 hrs a week 7 days a week, will this be enough to be considered full time? If it is and the CW becomes a legal full time network, will they not have to give up Superstation status? It is quite possible that WWOR and WSBK may be the only true Superstations left, perhaps E* would still offer these "a la carte" at current $1.50/mo each, but I would not be surprised, that come this fall, the full Superstation package at E* will be gone forever.


According to U.S. Code, Title 47, Section 339:


> (2) Network station. - The term "network station" means -
> 
> (A) a television broadcast station, including any translator station or terrestrial satellite station that rebroadcasts all or substantially all of the programming broadcast by a network station, that is owned or operated by, or affiliated with, one or more of the television networks in the United States which offer an interconnected program service on a regular basis for 15 or more hours per week to at least 25 of its affiliated television licensees in 10 or more States; or
> 
> (B) a noncommercial educational broadcast station (as defined in section 397 of the Communications Act of 1934).


If the affiliate list is as suspected, The CW will definitely meet the requirements to be considered a network.


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## Crystal Pepsi Ball (Jun 29, 2004)

Here in Salt Lake City, I would have to guess that KUWB (what its called now) would be the new CW affiliate and KPNZ would go independent. However it will be very interesting when all of the applications to change call letters come down the line. And new websites. And new logos. It will be a very interesting time from now until September for UPN, WB, D*, E*, etc.

That is just my $0.02


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## News Junky (Mar 16, 2005)

Just my 2 cents:

I think this opens the door for another network. Its really hard for indies to come up with programming and they all pretty much need some type of programming source. The answer? *Convert the USA Network to a local affiliate service like UPN, WB, ect.* A LOT of great original programming. There are shows on USA that are top flight stuff that slips under the radar. I discovered USA by visiting an overseas discussion board where people were asking me about what was going on in one of their shows. Often overseas they buy American programming and run it a season later. I knew of USA but never really watched it. Now I do. It reminds me of major network TV minus newscasts news before the advent of reality shows. Their focus seems to be TV drama series.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes but SHVERA states that a superstation cannot be affilaited with a network that mt certain requirements in 1995. The CW does not mett the criteria. In fact the CW will be broadcasting the same number of hours as the WB which also did not qualify.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

News Junky said:


> Just my 2 cents:
> 
> I think this opens the door for another network. Its really hard for indies to come up with programming and they all pretty much need some type of programming source. The answer? *Convert the USA Network to a local affiliate service like UPN, WB, ect.* A LOT of great original programming. There are shows on USA that are top flight stuff that slips under the radar. I discovered USA by visiting an overseas discussion board where people were asking me about what was going on in one of their shows. Often overseas they buy American programming and run it a season later. I knew of USA but never really watched it. Now I do. It reminds me of major network TV minus newscasts news before the advent of reality shows. Their focus seems to be TV drama series.


USA remins me more of an old style indeendent channel with lots of resruns and some syndicated fare.


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## News Junky (Mar 16, 2005)

Most of the time I agree in primetime they have some great original series programming including Monk, a show called dead zone that I'm hooked on and The 4400 about a group of people kidnapped by aliens over the past 50 years but all returned on the same day with no memory or their sbduction and with different supernatural powers to benifit humanity. These shows would get ratings on NBC.

http://www.usanetwork.com/


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Geronimo said:


> USA reminds me more of an old style independent channel with lots of reruns and some syndicated fare.


When I was drafting Carload's First Law of Pay TV Programming(tm), what I really wanted to say is that all pay-tv networks regress to that old-style independent channel's programming. But that's an unwieldy phrase, and a lot of them young whippersnappers have never seen an old-style independent channel, so I settled on "regress to the average of all other programming", which is a little different but still accurate.

* USA is a prime example of the First Law. It used to be mostly sports and events and Night Flight -- that's all long gone.

* With the sudden surge in true independent stations, I wonder if we'll see a return to old-time local sports programming. Part of the reason OTA stations walked away from local prime-time sports is that they would be too disruptive to the network schedule, even if it was just UPN. Maybe the locals will start pulling some games back from the RSNs?

* America One! I really hope that some of the new independents sign on.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

News Junky said:


> Most of the time I agree in primetime they have some great original series programming including Monk, a show called dead zone that I'm hooked on and The 4400 about a group of people kidnapped by aliens over the past 50 years but all returned on the same day with no memory or their sbduction and with different supernatural powers to benifit humanity. These shows would get ratings on NBC.
> 
> http://www.usanetwork.com/


Now if you were really hooked on The 4400 you'd know that the group of people were actually not kidnapped by aliens, but by humans from the future!


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

> * With the sudden surge in true independent stations, I wonder if we'll see a return to old-time local sports programming. Part of the reason OTA stations walked away from local prime-time sports is that they would be too disruptive to the network schedule, even if it was just UPN. Maybe the locals will start pulling some games back from the RSNs?


WWOR currently has the broadcast rights to the Yankees and WSBK has the broadcast rights to the Red Sox, they might end up airing more games than just one a week after they lose affiliation.


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## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

KyL416 said:


> WWOR currently has the broadcast rights to the Yankees and WSBK has the broadcast rights to the Red Sox, they might end up airing more games than just one a week after they lose affiliation.


Yeah, but I bet WSBK will still black them out. WWOR did not black out the games last season for some reason. WPIX (which show Mets games) has also not been blacking them out, out-of-market.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

WSBK was an odd situation. When it showed Red Sox games, NESN was also showing them everywhere within its coverage area that WSBK couldn't reach. It was NESN that forced the Red Sox blackouts on WSBK out of market.

I suppose that the other supers could see their major league games blacked out, but there's no particular reason to expect it. AFAIK, in every other case, the OTA broadcaster is the only channel carrying their home team's coverage for the games they carry.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

How will this affect Dish Network's Superstation Pack?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

jdspencer said:


> How will this affect Dish Network's Superstation Pack?


It won't affect it at all. KTLA, KWGN, and WPIX (now WB) will be the CW stations. WWOR and WSBK will no longer air the 2 hour primetime UPN programming and become independent like they were before.


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## News Junky (Mar 16, 2005)

Link said:


> Now if you were really hooked on The 4400 you'd know that the group of people were actually not kidnapped by aliens, but by humans from the future!


Busted! I only have time to watch so much TV but when I do see The 4400 I have to say I was very impressed and think if it wern't for the popularity of reality TV this show would be one of the major networks. The 4400 plus Monk and Dead Zone are top flight stuff. USA could be a OTA Network. It blows PAX away, IMHO.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

What will happen to the left out WB or UPN stations, including those big market UPNs owned by Fox Stations Group? They will revert to old-time independents. Just look at Fox Stations Group's true independent in Dallas. That means that the UPN (or WB) primetime programming will be replaced by, generally, an old movie or a strip of four sitcom reruns in the 8-10 E/P 7-9 C/M slot, with the rest of their days unaffected. It will free some of these stations to more freely sign up for sports of all types.

In some smaller markets, where all of the Spanish affiliatations are not taken but Spanish is appropriate, the left out station will land there.

I hope the government has the sense to charge for call letter swaps. At any rate a lot of sign painters and graphic artists will make money on new station logos.

There will be no Fox2 or broadcast USA network. The Market has spoken and 6 general interest English language networks is too many.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

WWOR-TV has debuted a "new" logo for their news. They dropped the UPN name and just use "9 News" The logo looks exactly the same except where the UPN Logo used to be, there's now just a small red vertical rectangle. They also have their reporters using a logoless microphone. It seems they are dropping the UPN name from their branding early.


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