# Basic questions from a moron



## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Sorry guys, you have an idiot here with idiotic questions.

I just placed my install order with installation scheduled for this Saturday.

I got the whole home DVR service, 6 HD DVRs, a Home Media Server, and something called Cinema Connect.

I was on the phone so long I had to get to work, so I couldn't really ask the pertinent questions (plus I trust the answers here more than the phone reps anyway).

With the above setup, if I have a recording conflict, will it automatically move a recording to another DVR and record it anyway?

What is Cinema Connect? I didn't ask because they said it was free, and I didn't have time to get specifics.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, now, I'm not disputing you but that's a pretty big order. The problem is that there is no DIRECTV approved way of sharing programming between more than 16 tuners. The HR24 is 2 tuners, the Home Media Server (also called Genie DVR) is 5 tuners, so that's 17. One of the HR24s will be odd man out; either it will be set to a single tuner mode or it won't be able to share programming.


Unfortunately there is no way to shift programming across devices automatically. 

The Cinema Connection Kit allows for all the devices to share a common connection to the internet. If you don't want your receivers to be internet connected, the best thing to do is graciously accept the kit and disconnect it when the installer leaves. They don't get the full pay for an install unless they connect you to the internet.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

The day you get a recording conflict, please post the details. I just don't see how you can get one with so many tuners available.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Crap, why did these morons sell me this if there is no way to make it work? Maybe I should downgrade one of the HD DVRs to just a regular HD receiver with no DVR?

I actually want them connected to the internet, so no problems there. 

I'm concerned that this isn't going to work now. They have me scheduled for install (a move actually, with several upgrades) this coming Saturday. I don't want the tech to get there and tell me it isn't going to work.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

You could always keep it as is and just have a single tuner active on one of the DVR's (as Stuart mentioned).


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"yosoyellobo" said:


> The day you get a recording conflict, please post the details. I just don't see how you can get one with so many tuners available.


Well I was meaning if I have one receiver set to record 3 or 4 programs at the same time, will it automatically use another receiver to do it or will it have a conflict? Basically wondering if I will have to be mindful of scheduled recordings and spread them out amongst the receivers or if the system would do that for me.

It sounds like the system won't do that so now I think I got my answer. Better to know that now, in advance, than at the last second.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Correct, but keep in mind that the HR34 has 5 tuners so that's where you'll want to record the bulk of your programming.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> You could always keep it as is and just have a single tuner active on one of the DVR's (as Stuart mentioned).


Is there some kind of unsupported way to make it work?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Out of curiousity, why do you need 17 tuners (instead of 16)?


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> Correct, but keep in mind that the HR34 has 5 tuners so that's where you'll want to record the bulk of your programming.


Oh yeah, definitely. But that receiver won't be in my main tv watching room so if I hit record on the spur if the moment it won't record on that one. Probably just going to set all my season series recordings in the HR34 (which will sit in the man cave).


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> Out of curiousity, why do you need 17 tuners (instead of 16)?


I don't. But if it is recording something, I just don't want to have to watch that channel. Otherwise, 16 seems like plenty.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Gotcha.

I have an HR21 in our upstairs game room that I use strictly for watching recordings via MRV (and occasional live TV). I never have anything recording on it and never set anything up to record on it.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

BlackDynamite said:


> Is there some kind of unsupported way to make it work?


nope


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"peds48" said:


> nope


Dang. Well I think I'll just go with only activating 1 tuner on a receiver that won't get too much use. And hopefully someday someone invents a way to make it all work.

That is all assuming the tech that comes out doesn't freak out and refuse to install it.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I think a key for you will be to make sure to keep everything organized. In terms of number of series setup, each DVR can handle 50 series links, the HR34 can do 100. 

I'd keep track of the DVR's and what you have set up on them in a spreadsheet. I think it'll help overall.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Is this a new install and if so how much did you pay for all these receivers?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

This might be a good place to look:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005

While there's no officially supported way to share programming between 17 tuners it certainly can be done (in the method in the thread above, or by bridging the two SWM networks through ethernet.) While the tech is not likely to perform either method, they should install two SWM16's allowing all functionality except whole home between all receivers. The latter can be accomplished with a little bit of work on your part  Should you wish to change a DVR to a receiver it would certainly simplify things a bit though


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> This might be a good place to look:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005
> 
> While there's no officially supported way to share programming between 17 tuners it certainly can be done (in the method in the thread above, or by bridging the two SWM networks through ethernet.) While the tech is not likely to perform either method, they should install two SWM16's allowing all functionality except whole home between all receivers. The latter can be accomplished with a little bit of work on your part  Should you wish to change a DVR to a receiver it would certainly simplify things a bit though


Thank you! I'll definitely have to check this out.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I'd tend to keep it simpler. One way to do so is have one receiver only model, and it can be used to designate recordings going to whatever DVR you want. 

I do all sports and impromptu recordings on my Genie, aka HR34, aka HMC, all movies on my HR24, with series links on both. Almost no conflicts, and is easy to manage. 

Whatever you do:Enjoy!


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"Laxguy" said:


> I'd tend to keep it simpler. One way to do so is have one receiver only model, and it can be used to designate recordings going to whatever DVR you want.
> 
> I do all sports and impromptu recordings on my Genie, aka HR34, aka HMC, all movies on my HR24, with series links on both. Almost no conflicts, and is easy to manage.
> 
> Whatever you do:Enjoy!


Yeah I probably would have done this if the agent on the phone would have told me it wasn't going to work.

At this point, I've already paid for it and got it scheduled, so I don't want to change anything.

I'll probably just leave 1 tuner inactive somewhere, and eventually I'll try to get it working though an unsupported way.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> This might be a good place to look:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005
> 
> While there's no officially supported way to share programming between 17 tuners it certainly can be done (in the method in the thread above, or by bridging the two SWM networks through ethernet.) While the tech is not likely to perform either method, they should install two SWM16's allowing all functionality except whole home between all receivers. The latter can be accomplished with a little bit of work on your part  Should you wish to change a DVR to a receiver it would certainly simplify things a bit though


I read through that thread. How would I bridge the 2 SWM networks through Ethernet? Is it just a matter of connecting 2 receivers from different switches to the same Ethernet switch?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> I read through that thread. How would I bridge the 2 SWM networks through Ethernet? Is it just a matter of connecting 2 receivers from different switches to the same Ethernet switch?


To cross connect two DECA/SWiM networks, a CCK on each that connects to either a switch and then your router, or directly to your router.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> To cross connect two DECA/SWiM networks, a CCK on each that connects to either a switch and then your router, or directly to your router.


What is a CCK? And do I connect it to each receiver, just 1 receiver from each group, or to something else altogether?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> What is a CCK? And do I connect it to each receiver, just 1 receiver from each group, or to something else altogether?


First I think the type of networking needs to be defined.

DirecTV's connected home networking is done through the coax. New receivers have a DECA component internal and older receivers need an external added.

With the coax networking, one [separate] DECA is used to connect to the internet for all the receivers on the same network. This now is called a Cinema Connection Kit, or CCK for short.

Should you have more than one SWiM, these each need a DECA for internet access and when connected to your router, they share recordings through the router to all the receivers.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> First I think the type of networking needs to be defined.
> 
> DirecTV's connected home networking is done through the coax. New receivers have a DECA component internal and older receivers need an external added.
> 
> ...


Oh okay. So then as long as I have a CCK on each "network of receivers" that connects to the same router, they will all be able to talk to each other then?

I'm assuming I will get HR24s, and the HR34, plus the old HD DVR I will be keeping (I think it's an HR21).

So just make sure I have a DECA, and it is connected to my home network router, on each "receiver network" and I should be good?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Oh okay. So then as long as I have a CCK on each "network of receivers" that connects to the same router, they will all be able to talk to each other then?
> 
> I'm assuming I will get HR24s, and the HR34, plus the old HD DVR I will be keeping (I think it's an HR21).
> 
> So just make sure I have a DECA, and it is connected to my home network router, on each "receiver network" and I should be good?


Seems like you're coming up to speed.

The HR21 will need a DECA and each "coax group" will need a CCK to connect to your router.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> Seems like you're coming up to speed.
> 
> The HR21 will need a DECA and each "coax group" will need a CCK to connect to your router.


Okay well this should be easy enough to do then.

So the tech is already supposed to be installing a CCK (and presumably the DECA). So I just need to find another CCK somewhere and then then I can easily connect it to my router.

I'll have to watch the tech carefully so I can see what this CCK actually is so I know what to look for.

I'll try to talk him into leaving me an extra one but I doubt I'll have success with that.

Thanks for the help!


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

BlackDynamite said:


> I'll try to talk him into leaving me an extra one but I doubt I'll have success with that.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


A little money goes a long way.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"west99999" said:


> A little money goes a long way.


Haha, yeah, I'll definitely try to make it worth considering.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Well so much for that. The tech refused to do the install. Left me high and dry.

WTF am I going to do with no tv?!

Lazy ass tech.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Why did he refuse?


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> Why did he refuse?


I don't know, maybe he had a hot date or something and didn't want to spend the time. 
The moment he got there he said "you have 17 tuners, this isn't going to work. Are you sure you want to go through with it?

I was like yeah, let's make it as good as we can.

He was like okay, we'll just put the HMC on its own group so none of the other receivers can talk to it.

I was like, can we just put my old receiver on its own group and put the HMC on the same group with all the new receivers?

He was like, okay, I guess that will work.

A few minutes later he comes back and he's like, we really can't do this until your internet is up and running. (I was still in the process of moving in, movers were there moving stuff)

I was like, they hooked it up this morning, it's up and running.

He then said okay but we need all of your tvs up and running before we can do anything.

I said (holding a small 20 inch LED) I can just plug this one into the receiver, then move it to the next one.

He was like, no, that won't work, we need all of them on at the same time.

I made everyone drop what they were doing, search the movers truck, find the tvs, plug them in at the desired locations, and turn them on.

Then he was like, I don't have any way to run a cable to the inside of this house. The outside walls are all foundation.

I was like, no way. The people who lived here before me had Dish Network. Let's go see where they ran the lines.

So we walked outside, saw the line, followed it, and planned a course from room to room.

Then he's like, there's nowhere to put the dish.

I'm like, just put it right there where that Dish Network dish is.

He's like, I can't do that. It's too close to the edge of your deck.

I'm like, so what are you saying?

He says, I can't complete the order. Do you want to call and tell customer service or should I?

I was like, I'll call them. I'll tell them I'm just going to have Dish come out here and activate service on this existing dish.

I called customer service, abs they had a supervisor call me back. He said he had already seen my location and he thinks it can go right where I asked in the first place. They're coming back Monday to complete the order.

But in the mean time, I have no tv.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

I think the guy was just in over his head and looking for any excuse to get out of your install. 17 tuners isn't anywhere near common, and there are techs who have problems with "basic" setups. 

In any case, it looks like you understand what to do to get everything communicating for Whole Home now; you just need a decent tech to get you setup.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Well I'm up and running.

2 guys came yesterday. After they got here and looked around, they called in 2 more guys. 

I actually had to go to work before they finished (about 3 hours after they started) so I had my mother in law come up and stay with them.

I guess it ended up taking them about another 3 hours after that.

They did a pretty good job though. Everything works, the dish is right where I wanted it, and the 1 receiver not in the whole home loop is the one I wanted.

Now I just have to get that one in the whole home loop (since it's the one with all my recordings on it). It doesn't have on demand right now either.

It's an HR21. The rest of my setup is 5 HR24s and 1 HR34. 

So if I get that HR21 connected to the internet through my same router that connects the HR34 (which is apparently the only receiver in the whole home group connected to my router, but they all have on demand) will it then be in the whole home group or what else would I need?

Going to call Directv today to return all if my old receivers that I'm not using anymore. At the same time I'll probably order the Cinema Connect Kit for that one isolated receiver. Just not sure if that is all I need or if there is more to it.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

All you need to do is run an ethernet cable from the one HR21 to your LAN and the HR21 will be able to share MRV with all the other units. No need for a CCK.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"carl6" said:


> All you need to do is run an ethernet cable from the one HR21 to your LAN and the HR21 will be able to share MRV with all the other units. No need for a CCK.


Oh okay, awesome!

Thank you all for the help!


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

So I decided against running Ethernet. It's in a different room from my router. It could be done, I guess, but wireless is just so much easier.

So I called Directv and ordered a wireless Cinema Connection Kit. Online it shows that it shipped with a free DECA. 

Should I connect the DECA too (I'm thinking I should) or just disregard the DECA and only connect the CCK?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> So I decided against running Ethernet. It's in a different room from my router. It could be done, I guess, but wireless is just so much easier.
> 
> So I called Directv and ordered a wireless Cinema Connection Kit. Online it shows that it shipped with a free DECA.
> 
> Should I connect the DECA too (I'm thinking I should) or just disregard the DECA and only connect the CCK?


I'd guess the DECA is for the HR21.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> I'd guess the DECA is for the HR21.


Yeah the HR21 is the only receiver not in the whole home group (too many tuners).


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> So I decided against running Ethernet. It's in a different room from my router. It could be done, I guess, but wireless is just so much easier.
> 
> So I called Directv and ordered a wireless Cinema Connection Kit. Online it shows that it shipped with a free DECA.
> 
> Should I connect the DECA too (I'm thinking I should) or just disregard the DECA and only connect the CCK?


Wireless doesn't always works so well for Whole Home. Did they install two SWM16's for your install? If so (and if the SWM16's are located near each other) a CCK/DECA on each SWM16 and an ethernet cable in between will make this work. This is assuming you have placed the DECA at the HR21.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> Wireless doesn't always works so well for Whole Home. Did they install two SWM16's for your install? If so (and if the SWM16's are located near each other) a CCK/DECA on each SWM16 and an ethernet cable in between will make this work. This is assuming you have placed the DECA at the HR21.


Yes, I have 2 SWM16s. I say that not because I'm an expert, but because I heard the techs talking about it.

What do they look like? I'll try to find them and see about connecting them with Ethernet and DECAs.

I have never seen a SWM16 or a DECA. I'm sure I can figure it out though.

So right now I have 5 HR24s and the HR34 on the whole home group (and presumably all connected to the save SWM16) and then the HR21 all by itself (presumably connected to the other SWM 16).

Would I just connect a DECA to an available coax connection on the SWM16, run Ethernet from that, and connect it to another DECA on an available coax in the other SWM16?

This sounds easy enough to do if that's all there is to it. I bet the SWM16s are right next to each other, wherever they are.

There are 2 things connected to coax in the closet next to my router that the tech said not to ever disconnect (and I think they're connected to power). Would those be the SWM16s?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

This is a SWM16:












BlackDynamite said:


> Would I just connect a DECA to an available coax connection on the SWM16, run Ethernet from that, and connect it to another DECA on an available coax in the other SWM16?


Yes, exactly like that.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> This is a SWM16:
> 
> Yes, exactly like that.


Awesome. Thanks!

So I need to find another DECA then. They are only sending me 1. Should I just call them and ask for another 1? Or will they freak out because I'm trying to do something that I'm not supposed to be doing?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Awesome. Thanks!
> 
> So I need to find another DECA then. They are only sending me 1. Should I just call them and ask for another 1? Or will they freak out because I'm trying to do something that I'm not supposed to be doing?


You'll need a DECA on the HR21 and a CCK for each SWM16. The reason I use that particular terminology is that a DECA is generally powered by a receiver (although you can get buy a power supply for it.) A CCK will come with the power supply. If you call and ask for a DECA then you will still need to make another purchase.

Personally, I wouldnt tell them what you're doing as you'll likely just confuse the CSR (and it's not officially supported.)


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> You'll need a DECA on the HR21 and a CCK for each SWM16. The reason I use that particular terminology is that a DECA is generally powered by a receiver (although you can get buy a power supply for it.) A CCK will come with the power supply. If you call and ask for a DECA then you will still need to make another purchase.
> 
> Personally, I wouldnt tell them what you're doing as you'll likely just confuse the CSR (and it's not officially supported.)


Okay so should I cancel the order fur thus wireless CCK then and instead order 2 wired CCKs (thinking they probably include a DECA, or I could just keep the DECA they sent with the wireless CCK)?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Okay so should I cancel the order fur thus wireless CCK then and instead order 2 wired CCKs (thinking they probably include a DECA, or I could just keep the DECA they sent with the wireless CCK)?


The wireless CCK is multipurpose and can be used in a "hard-wired mode"; I would keep it. I've lost track of what you have currently, but it sounds like you have a DECA (for the HR21) and a wireless CCK on the way. This leaves you one more CCK to procure.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

So I looked at what they installed, and apparently it's not 2 SWM16s. It's 1 SWM16 and something else. I'm attaching a picture.

Does this change how I should bridge them together?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> So I looked at what they installed, and apparently it's not 2 SWM16s. It's 1 SWM16 and something else. I'm attaching a picture.
> 
> Does this change how I should bridge them together?


YEP
Everything on that WB68 can't be part of your coax network.
That's not even a supported method.
The WB68 [old legacy switch] shouldn't have been connected off of the -16.

They "should have" used 2-way splitters to feed both, or better yet used 2-way to feed two SWiM-16s.










Either two -16s [as shown] or that WB68


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> YEP
> Everything on that WB68 can't be part of your coax network.
> That's not even a supported method.
> The WB68 [old legacy switch] shouldn't have been connected off of the -16.
> ...


Well that sucks. So what should I do?

If I call Directv and tell them to send another tech, what should I say?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Well that sucks. So what should I do?
> 
> If I call Directv and tell them to send another tech, what should I say?


Going back to your first post:


> I got the whole home DVR service, 6 HD DVRs, a Home Media Server, and something called Cinema Connect.


You don't have "whole home DVR service" working everywhere.

Maybe I should first ask what are ALL of your receivers????


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

If I may ask, BlackDynamite, what is your plan for the HR21? Will you keep it or are you just going to watch what's on it and send it back?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> So I looked at what they installed, and apparently it's not 2 SWM16s. It's 1 SWM16 and something else. I'm attaching a picture.
> 
> Does this change how I should bridge them together?


What a shame... As VOS mentioned this isn't an approved install any longer. The first step would be to get them back out and replace that WB68 with a SWM8 or SWM16.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Yes, I have 2 SWM16s. I say that not because I'm an expert, but because I heard the techs talking about it.


And this begs the question; where is that second SWM16? Your workorder would have been built with 2 SWM16's for the install, and it appears the techs were aware of the correct way to complete the setup. I get the feeling Ebay has a recent listing for a SWM16 :nono2:


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> Going back to your first post:
> 
> You don't have "whole home DVR service" working everywhere.
> 
> Maybe I should first ask what are ALL of your receivers????


I have the HR34, 5 HR24s, and an HR21. I brought the HR21 with me from my old house, all the rest are new (I just moved and this is the initial setup at the new residence).


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"David Ortiz" said:


> If I may ask, BlackDynamite, what is your plan for the HR21? Will you keep it or are you just going to watch what's on it and send it back?


Keeping it. I was going to swap it out for an HR24, but decided to just keep it.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> And this begs the question; where is that second SWM16? Your workorder would have been built with 2 SWM16's for the install, and it appears the techs were aware of the correct way to complete the setup. I get the feeling Ebay has a recent listing for a SWM16 :nono2:


They actually left a number in case of any problems. I called, and they are going to come back this weekend. Said they'd call me tomorrow morning to schedule it, possibly even for tomorrow.

I flat out told him I wanted another SWM16 so I could have more flexibility with the whole home network, since the one out there doesn't support whole home DVR service.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

With those receivers, you should have ALL OF THEM on a SWiM [which means two of them].


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> With those receivers, you should have ALL OF THEM on a SWiM [which means two of them].


What is the disadvantage to not having all of them in a SWM? I'm just trying to figure out how to tell this guy the reason I want another SWM. I told him it was so I could have some flexibility with the whole home DVR. When he/they get there, they'll probably grill me on exactly what I'm trying to do.

Is it a show stopper if I tell them I want to bridge them together so the whole home works on all of them? I know it's not supported, but do they actually try to prevent it or do they just not help in any way but don't care if I do it myself?


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

veryoldschool said:


> YEP
> Everything on that WB68 can't be part of your coax network.
> That's not even a supported method.
> The WB68 [old legacy switch] shouldn't have been connected off of the -16.
> ...


I thought the new Slim5 has only one coaxal out ?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> What is the disadvantage to not having all of them in a SWM? I'm just trying to figure out how to tell this guy the reason I want another SWM. I told him it was so I could have some flexibility with the whole home DVR. When he/they get there, they'll probably grill me on exactly what I'm trying to do.
> 
> Is it a show stopper if I tell them I want to bridge them together so the whole home works on all of them? I know it's not supported, but do they actually try to prevent it or do they just not help in any way but don't care if I do it myself?


Anything currently connected to the WB68 can't share its recordings, nor can play any from those on the SWiM.
You have an "incomplete Whole Home" DVR service.
Bridging two SWiMs with [two] CCKs is supported, though it's rare to have this setup, so they may not be familiar.

I've already posted the DirecTV approved method, but it lacks the two CCKs in the diagram.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rickt1962 said:


> I thought the new Slim5 has only one coaxal out ?


That is with the SWiM LNB.
When you use an external SWiM, you still use the standard LNB.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> Anything currently connected to the WB68 can't share its recordings, nor can play any from those on the SWiM.
> You have an "incomplete Whole Home" DVR service.
> Bridging two SWiMs with [two] CCKs is supported, though it's rare to have this setup, so they may not be familiar.
> 
> I've already posted the DirecTV approved method, but it lacks the two CCKs in the diagram.


Wait, so these guys were supposed to bridge them together and make it all work? Because they said from the start that I had too many tuners and 1 of them wouldn't work. If they're actually supposed to make this work then I'll just flat out tell them what I want.

I was thinking I had to keep this quiet because it wasn't allowed.

Is there some official documentation I can point them to so they know it's supported? I'm sure I can show them that diagram but they'll probably just say Directv doesn't allow that or something.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Wait, so these guys were supposed to bridge them together and make it all work? Because they said from the start that I had too many tuners and 1 of them wouldn't work. If they're actually supposed to make this work then I'll just flat out tell them what I want.
> 
> I was thinking I had to keep this quiet because it wasn't allowed.
> 
> Is there some official documentation I can point them to so they know it's supported? I'm sure I can show them that diagram but they'll probably just say Directv doesn't allow that or something.


I'm not sure where DirecTV would have this, "BUT" I worked with the creator of that diagram, and I KNOW where it says DirecTV Approved, that it was checked with DirecTV to say so.

I also know of other customers that have had this done.

Again, this isn't a common setup so "they" may just not be up to speed.

You're a customer, and DirecTV will support what you're "legally" doing, and having more than 16 tuners is legal.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> I'm not sure where DirecTV would have this, "BUT" I worked with the creator of that diagram, and I KNOW where it says DirecTV Approved, that it was checked with DirecTV to say so.
> 
> I also know of other customers that have had this done.
> 
> ...


Well this is great news, and it changes everything. I have been thinking I had to "trick" them into getting me close, and then I'd finish the rest after they left. I thought it wasn't allowed so I couldn't let them find out what my real plans were.

Now that I know this is Directv approved, I'll just print it out and give it to the tech.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Well this is great news, and it changes everything. I have been thinking I had to "trick" them into getting me close, and then I'd finish the rest after they left. I thought it wasn't allowed so I couldn't let them find out what my real plans were.
> 
> Now that I know this is Directv approved, I'll just print it out and give it to the tech.


The "problem" might be that the picture doesn't show the bridging of the CCK's. I haven't seen anything that references that situation specificially, so I didn't believe they had an official policy in place yet. VOS would be the authority, so I would definitely take his word if this is now officially approved. The problem may be proving that to them without some documentation.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"dsw2112" said:


> The "problem" might be that the picture doesn't show the bridging of the CCK's. I haven't seen anything that references that situation specificially, so I didn't believe they had an official policy in place yet. VOS would be the authority, so I would definitely take his word if this is now officially approved. The problem may be proving that to them without some documentation.


Yeah I'm pretty sure they aren't going to go for it. They were pretty adamant that there is a 16 tuner limit that isn't possible to exceed. Even the supervisor who was on site was adamant that 16 was the limit, no matter what, and there was no way around it.

I'm fully expecting them to lie to me and say it won't work when I show them the printed diagram. Either that or they'll tell me it isn't supported by Directv.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure they aren't going to go for it. They were pretty adamant that there is a 16 tuner limit that isn't possible to exceed. Even the supervisor who was on site was adamant that 16 was the limit, no matter what, and there was no way around it.
> 
> I'm fully expecting them to lie to me and say it won't work when I show them the printed diagram. Either that or they'll tell me it isn't supported by Directv.


"If that was the case", why is there one of these:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...ingle-Wire-Multi-Switch-(32-Channel)-(SWM-32)

If they won't deal with this, call DirecTV.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure they aren't going to go for it. They were pretty adamant that there is a 16 tuner limit that isn't possible to exceed. Even the supervisor who was on site was adamant that 16 was the limit, no matter what, and there was no way around it.
> 
> I'm fully expecting them to lie to me and say it won't work when I show them the printed diagram. Either that or they'll tell me it isn't supported by Directv.


Regardless of the Whole Home element, what is approved is two SWM16's for 17 tuners. I can assure you that your current setup of a SWM16 and a WB68 in parallel is not approved. It is most assuredly on them to fix that part.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> Regardless of the Whole Home element, what is approved is two SWM16's for 17 tuners. I can assure you that your current setup of a SWM16 and a WB68 in parallel is not approved. It is most assuredly on them to fix that part.


Stupidity, or merely the lack of training/understanding shouldn't be the final decision here.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Stupidity, or merely the lack of training/understanding shouldn't be the final decision here.


Agreed; you should really vie for that Head Trainer position. I think your phone would be ringing non-stop :lol:


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Cool well I'm definitely going to try.

When the tech(s) get there, I'm just going to give him that diagram and say this is how I need it, and I need them bridged together.

I'm anticipating a lot a push back. I mean, if they wanted to do this, they would have done it in the first place, right? Instead they specifically told me 17 tuners on the same network wasn't possible.

I'm hoping that when I inevitably have to call Directv about this, the phone rep understands the issue and agrees that it's supported. Hopefully they don't just refer me to the tech's supervisor (who was there during the install and also flat out told me more than 16 tuners on the same network wasn't possible).

I sure wish there was some official diagram to give them, or a diagram that showed them bridged.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

You may have to pay for the second SWM 16 which will be pricey. You may save time and money just doing it as a DIY following that diagram.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

BlackDynamite said:


> Cool well I'm definitely going to try.
> 
> When the tech(s) get there, I'm just going to give him that diagram and say this is how I need it, and I need them bridged together.
> 
> ...


Why they installed the WB68, I can only speculate... Should you receive pushback on installing the second SWM16 ask to see the original workorder. The two SWM16's should be listed on that document for the amount of tuners you have. This might be an indication (to them) that you know what you're talking about, and have some ammo in your pocket (not following a workorder is a big no no.) Hopefully that will be enough to ensure they bridge the two with CCK's as well.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> You may have to pay for the second SWM 16 which will be pricey. You may save time and money just doing it as a DIY following that diagram.


In NJ, we have a member with 22 tuners on dual SWiM-16s & twin CCKs, all installed without charge, [OK he's known to tip well :lol:].


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> I sure wish there was some official diagram to give them, or a diagram that showed them bridged.


You've got the "how to" feed two SWiM-16s.
Once they get that far, "for them" each can be looked at as two separate installs, so each -16 needs a CCK to connect to the internet [your router].
The bridging is done by your router, so "all they need to do is" lol connect each SWiM-16 to your router.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> You've got the "how to" feed two SWiM-16s.
> Once they get that far, "for them" each can be looked at as two separate installs, so each -16 needs a CCK to connect to the internet [your router].
> The bridging is done by your router, so "all they need to do is" lol connect each SWiM-16 to your router.


So they connect them to my router, or they connect them to each other? Or does it work either way?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> So they connect them to my router, or they connect them to each other? Or does it work either way?


Each CCK needs to connect to your router. They can't connect to each other, unless you have an ethernet switch and then connect it to your router, otherwise the router is what bridges these two together.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

I was reading through this:
http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/336-WHITE-PAPER-More-than-16-tuners-in-the-home/page3

And it basically says this diagram is the way to go if possible:









Is this method of bridging better than connecting it through ethernet? I know it says it is for a few reasons, but I don't know if it's still the case or if the issues posed have been resolved.

Do Directv techs ever hook it up this way? The one SWM16 I currently have is already connected to my router with a CCK, and I have that additional (wireless) CCK they sent me for the HR21, which should presumably bridge them if I connect it with ethernet instead of wireless. But the problem is my HR21 is in a different room from my router, so running ethernet isn't the greatest option.

If I print this out and give it to the tech, do you think they will have all the stuff to do it? And would it be out of the question for them to do even if they had the stuff?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Didn't you also get a DECA besides the wireless CCK?
If so, the DECA needs to go on the HR21, like this:










Yes, the wireless CCK doesn't need to be connected wirelessly and can use ethernet.

If you look at that diagram, you'll see it doesn't say it's DirecTV Approved.

Actually that method is one I've come up with myself, and tested. There are some at DirecTV that know about it, but it hasn't been submitted for approval, so there isn't a tech that has been trained to use it.

Given the problems you are having, I wouldn't even ask them about it.
You need to have them set you up with the "Approved" method.
If you want to make a change later, that will be your option and your costs.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> Didn't you also get a DECA besides the wireless CCK?
> If so, the DECA needs to go on the HR21.
> 
> Yes, the wireless CCK doesn't need to be connected wirelessly and can use ethernet.
> ...


Yeah they sent a DECA with the wireless CCK.

Okay, well I'll just give him the diagram of the approved method then.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Yeah they sent a DECA with the wireless CCK.
> 
> Okay, well I'll just give him the diagram of the approved method then.


It seems it's going to be hard enough to get them to do the job right.

I'll be glad to work with you if you want to change the coax networking to "my method", but it is a full DIY project.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> It seems it's going to be hard enough to get them to do the job right.
> 
> I'll be glad to work with you if you want to change the coax networking to "my method", but it is a full DIY project.


Sweet, I appreciate the help.

I just talked to the tech, he said he'd call me tomorrow morning and get another SWM16 installed tomorrow.

I just checked the cables, and they ran 2 coax cables to the HR21. The cables actually pass through the closet (in another room) where I have my router (and the current CCK is installed in there as well).

Anyway, both of these coax cables that go to the HR21, in the closet where the router is, they have "coupler" style connectors on them, which connects them to the longer cables that go outside.

So, presumably, when this is all connected properly to the SWM16, I'll probably only be using 1 of those cables. So hopefully I can use that "extra" cable to connect to the CCK and set it up using your method.

And in the mean time, I should hopefully be able to tap into the cable that will be in use for the HR21 right there at that same place, and connect the new CCK they just sent me, and plug it into the router right there (or a switch, which then connects to the router).

So either way, this is looking like it's doable once they get the SWM16 installed. The main thing I was worried about was running cables (either coax or Ethernet) and it looks like that part is no longer a concern.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

So I have been studying those diagrams and the picture of my Directv stuff.

I think what I need in order to do this (after they install the second SWM16 tomorrow) is:
8 short coax cables
4 way splitter
4 diplexers

Do they sell this stuff at Lowe's or Home Depot or do I have to order it online? I'm hoping to tackle this tomorrow if at all possible.

I'm thinking I'll just connect my CCK to the extra coax that runs out to the multiswitches (once the HR21 only needs 1 coax and the second coax that it's currently using is no longer in use). Then I'll connect the other end of it to the input of the 4 way splitter, which I'll install right next to the 2 SWM16s.

I'll then use short coax cables to go from the output on the 4 way splitter to the inputs on the diplexers.

Then I'll take the existing cables that are currently connected to the SWM16s outputs, and I'll connect them to the outputs of the diplexers instead.

I'll then take short coax cables and connect the SWM16 outputs to the other inputs on the diplexers. 

I'm no expert (as the thread title says, I'm a moron) so I may very well be missing something, but as far as I can tell, this should work.

Any ideas where I should look for the 4 way splitter and diplexers locally so I don't have to wait for shipping?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The diplexers and splitters need to be "a certain type", which Lowes doesn't have.

Solid Signal carries them and was nice enough to give me the diplexers so I could test my method.
The NAS diplexers are the only ones approved by DirecTV to use with SWiM. They just haven't [yet] approved them for how I use them. :lol:

The splitters must also be the type with the green label as these have been modified to work with DECA.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Crap I guess I'll have to order it online then and wait for shipping.

Looks like this is a project for next weekend. 

I will still bridge the through Ethernet tomorrow at least.

Thanks for all the help.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

So they stood me up. No call, nothing. I tried to call and it went straight to voice mail. 

This all started several days ago when I called the supervisor who was here during the install. He was like "I told you that one of the receivers wouldn't have whole home, there's nothing I can do for you."

So I called one of the techs that was here (phone number was on the same sticker as the supervisor's number).

He said he didn't have time that day, but he'd call me Friday (yesterday) and do it then. He never called. I ended up calling him. He said he didn't have time but he'd call me tomorrow morning (today) around 8:00 or 9:00 and do it then. He never called. So I called him and got voice mail. Still haven't heard from him.

So I got sick of it and just called Directv. That was the most frustrating call you can imagine. 

Directv really needs to start paying their phone reps a decent wage so we can get decent people on the phone when something like this happens. For that matter, they need to start paying their outside techs a decent wage so things like this don't happen.

If I didn't actually love the product, I'd have cancelled by now. They better hope Dish Network never gets NFL Sunday Ticket. 

So now I have to wait till Wednesday, when they'll likely send this same tech.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Update: the tech just left and I'm up and running!

He cashed before coming too so I knew when he'd be here. Was a pretty great experience, considering what I'd been through.

He also said the previous techs (the crappy ones) were contractors, and he was an actual Directv employee.

I gave him the schematic for the diplexers bridging the SWMs. He had never heard of that. He said he would have done it for me, but he didn't have any diplexers on his truck. Said he was curious to see if it worked though, because in theory it should.

He did hook up the extra SWM16 though, and put a DECA on my HR21, to make it easier on me when I get the diplexers. 

After he left, I connected the coax that goes into the HR21 to the wireless CCK I bought. I then connected that through Ethernet to a switch. The HR34 shady had a CCK connecting it to my home router, so I just removed it from the router and connected it to the same switch as the other CCK. Then I connected that switch to my router.

From there, I just named the location, shared the playlist, and it worked on the other tvs that previously couldn't see it.

So now, I'm still going to do the diplexer way so I can use the iPad app and all that, but I have a question. The extra coax running out there that I was planning on using to connect to a single CCK (as the diagram shows) is currently being used to power the SWM16. Will a CCK work on the same coax as the SWM power supply?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BlackDynamite said:


> Will a CCK work on the same coax as the SWM power supply?


yes


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> yes


Okay cool, well I'm in good shape to finish this. I just need to get those diplexers. It's working for now, so no rush on that.

Thanks for all the help!


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