# How would you like your 160GB drive used?



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Currently the R15 has a 160GB hard drive installed. We are all told by DTV that 100GB of that is for the shows you want to record, the shows you want to watch. The other 60GB of that drive is "reserved for future use", at this point unused as the R15 doesn't have any VOD or Showcase capability. That space is reserved for what DTV wants to send you.....when they send you that.

So, I'm curious, how would you like to see the hard drive space on your R15 utilized?

BTW, everyone can vote for more than one option if needed.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

It is difficult to really choose among the options presented at this time because we have not yet seen any VOD/showcase content. How can I evaluate how important or non-important something is that I have not yet seen and been able to evaluate?

Having said that, I did vote and chose the 4th option - setting the amount of space myself - which lets me hedge my position until I can see what the vod/showcase operation will actually do.

By the way, being able to vote for more than one choice really screws up the percentages.

Carl


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## ChrisWyso (Nov 16, 2005)

In addition to being able to set my own reserved space size, I want to be able to specify Dolby Digital audio and Letterboxed video.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

To be honest I don't really care, the 100GB I have is more then enough to hold everything I want to watch. Even after 2 weeks of all my shows being recorded when I was out of town I still came back to like 75% free. I then watch the shows and delete them. Never been one for archiving my shows in all the years i've owned a DVR.


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## davefred99 (Mar 22, 2006)

To me it would depend on whether or not I ever get the ability to network or share content to my pc's. I use my R15 & Dtivo just to watch and delete right now but I also have an HTPC/DVR setup w/DTV & HD OTA that allows me to record and archive my files to DVD and share across my home network. Some how I do not think that is in DTV's plans so I guess for now I would just like to be able to alocate disk space as I see fit. I will never be happy with any DVR that limits my access to do as I please with my recorded files. (fair use)


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

It's all about choices. I think you default the setups to just the way it currently set but as with all other areas, let the user opt out of the default and set for his own preferences. Though this will get kicked around, I think a reset (hey, maybe a separate reset would work) should go back to the defaults so CSR could more easily troubleshoot problems.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I'd like to be able to format the darn thing and stick Tivo on it! Maybe then the darn thing would work.:joy:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

This is not a complaint poll. Yes we all know there are issues but every thread doesn't need to have complaints in it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I don't care about showcase, but I know others do so I'd be happy with a controlable showcase size. I want to be able to pack as many shows that I can on a 160GB drive.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> This is not a complaint poll. Yes we all know there are issues but every thread doesn't need to have complaints in it.


Sorry


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

dodge boy said:


> Sorry


No problem, I know how it is to want to vent on the things wrong but before you know it the thread is completely off track. 

Oh and to stay on track I still care what they do with the other 60gb as I don't fill the first 100gb, that and I want the external drive in case I do. :lol:


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## ejohnson (Jan 4, 2006)

I really don't have any interest in VOD/showcases (especially since they will probably all be PPV or DTV propoganda), but I voted for being able to choose the setup. It's all about having the choice for what _you_ want.

I unfortunatly can record shows alot faster than I can watch them, I would like the extra space for my programs. To me having DVR is 'video on demand', I can watch the shows I want, when I want.


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## Mr2sday (Mar 31, 2006)

They really should set up the VOD and showcases like the suggestions are setup on other boxes. Fill empty space but never overwrite things I've said I wanted.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Mr2sday said:


> They really should set up the VOD and showcases like the suggestions are setup on other boxes. Fill empty space but never overwrite things I've said I wanted.


Unless I'm mistaken, this is exactly how they plan on having it working....


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

You are mistaken.

As was pointed out at the start of the thread, they have reserved 60GB for this purpose. While technically this means none of your recordings will be deleted in order to record a showcase, it's also true that your recordings will likely be deleted in order to record another of your recordings earlier than they would if you had that extra 60GB (unless they get deleted by Keep At Most, of course).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> You are mistaken.
> 
> As was pointed out at the start of the thread, they have reserved 60GB for this purpose. While technically this means none of your recordings will be deleted in order to record a showcase, it's also true that your recordings will likely be deleted in order to record another of your recordings earlier than they would if you had that extra 60GB (unless they get deleted by Keep At Most, of course).


Thats not a very good explanation though. The box NEVER stated you had 160 hours of recording it says you have 100, so it's like that extra 60 hours flat out doesn't exist. So the previous explanation is valid I would venture to guess the majority of the people who own the R15 don't even know it has the capicity to record beyond the 100 hour mark.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh, believe me, they will. They will when there are enough of them, and they will when DirecTV starts using that space. And if history is any guide, many of them will be really pissed off. Just have a look at the TiVo forum around the time they started reserving a few gigabytes.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes because TiVo took away from space that was promised for your use. If DirecTV had said the whole 160gb was yours to use then it would be a valid complaint, but they didn't they said 100 was yours to use the rest was theirs.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> Yes because TiVo took away from space that was promised for your use.


I'm fairly sure that never happened. The 14-hour and original 30-hour boxes didn't have reserved space. When they shipped the first box with reserved space, they did so by adding space to be reserved, not by taking away from advertised space.

About the only argument that could be made is that they took space away from hacked boxes. But they never _promised_ the box was hackable; just turned out that way.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> I'm fairly sure that never happened. The 14-hour and original 30-hour boxes didn't have reserved space. When they shipped the first box with reserved space, they did so by adding space to be reserved, not by taking away from advertised space.
> 
> About the only argument that could be made is that they took space away from hacked boxes. But they never _promised_ the box was hackable; just turned out that way.


So when did DirecTV ever say that you could have all 160 GB? They didn't and thats my point. While it may be a valid argument, my point is simply they never promised us the whole drive they only promised us 100 hours which is what we get. Therefore the argument is moot. NOW if we get to add external boxes and they take part of that I will 100% agree with you.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

OK, let's try and review here to get on the same track. I never said DirecTV offered 160GB or anything other than "up to 100 hours".

This thread is about what people want done with the 160GB regarding showcases. Mr2sday said it should work like TiVo suggestions: they should only use otherwise empty space, and they should be deleted first to make room for real recordings. I happen to agree, by the way. Then CCarncross said that's exactly how it will work. I say he's wrong, because real recordings will be deleted even when there is plenty of space for showcases. In fact, they'll be deleted even if there is plenty of *empty* space reserved for showcases.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

In my usual curiosity, anyone know, does the "free space indicator" show our portion of the drive or all the drive.

(As an aside, maybe this is why "the other" box never had an indicator):lol:


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Seems to me it would be a bug if the free space indicator used total drive for it's calculation. Therefore, it probably uses the total drive. 

BTW, there have been volumes written on why TiVo doesn't have a free space indicator. Has nothing to do with reserved space, but I'm certainly not going to go into it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> In my usual curiosity, anyone know, does the "free space indicator" show our portion of the drive or all the drive.
> 
> (As an aside, maybe this is why "the other" box never had an indicator):lol:


Earl has said before that it was our 100GB that was indicated by the free space indicator.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Earl has said before that it was our 100GB that was indicated by the free space indicator.


Thanks, I could not remember the indicator when the drive was "empty".


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## Mr2sday (Mar 31, 2006)

I have part of one show on my R15 in my garage and it says 1% used. But that really doesn't mean anything because the showcases place is empty too. You really need someone who knows for sure they've taken up all available space. Then see if the indicator is nearly 100%.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

From what I've seen/tested, the Usage Bar is gauged at 100GB ~ 100 HRS.

This does seem to be a hard coded bar. The R15 comes with a 160GB HD that has a 160GB FAT32 partition on it. That partition shows as mostly all used although it starts with very few files on it. 

I have been able to make the R15 create a 250GB FAT32 partition on a 250GB drive and the R15 runs the same as it does on the 160GB drive. No more, no less bugs. I've been recording shows and testing on the 250GB drive and it still appears that even on a 250GB partition, the space available for user recordings is hard coded at 100GB.

So even though the R15 will itself create a 250GB partition, it still uses only 100GB given the current software.

I'm still playing and recording but it appears the 100 hour limit is hard coded in the software at this point in time. The usage bar is based on 100GB of hard drive usage.

Being a long time developer myself, seeing anything hard coded doesn't make be happy. I have repremended coders for taking such measures before as typically those steps we taken due to a coder being lazy. But it seems like we have a hard coded limit of 100GB of video storage, a limit of 50 SLs and a limit of 100 TDL items. Even though the R15 itself will format a drive for 250GB.

Just my observations.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

It might not be lazyness. It might be one layer of preventing people from self-expanding their systems (so they can sell marked-up external drives, or just to generally discourage people from poking around inside).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I woud guess this is also going to be changed or is different already based on the fact that they have already stated that they are going to allow USB connected storage for the DVR.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Mr2sday said:


> I have part of one show on my R15 in my garage and it says 1% used. But that really doesn't mean anything because the showcases place is empty too. You really need someone who knows for sure they've taken up all available space. Then see if the indicator is nearly 100%.


I have nearly filled the 100 hour space of my R15 with movies (with known lengths), and the percentage bar agreed very accurately with number of hours recorded against a 100 hour baseline.

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I've almost got my bar full and everything set to "Keep". It is following the numbers that would indicate the bar measures 100 hrs/GB. This is on a 250GB partition. Sometime tonight/tomorrow I should run into the limit and the R15 should stop recording if the same logic that controls the bar controls the amount of space allowed to record.

Another question for everyone to ponder. I've been assuming there's a 100GB hard coded limit currently on the R15. How about this. Maybe it's the sum total of the individual times of the shows in MYVOD. Different shows require different amounts of storage. Movies generally require more space than, for example, Dora the Explorer (an animated show for those without kids or grandkids). Maybe, just maybe, the R15 manages it's 160GB space (or 250GB in my case) by a simple addition of the times for recorded shows. Hence, you get 100 hours regardless if it uses 120GB (action movies) or 80 GB (black and white movies or animated shows).


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

I had about 40 hours of the Olympics recorded which probably has some of the highest bitrate allocations of any SD content. When I added up the recorded hours I'm pretty sure it came out to 78 hours with a few percent empty. From this info I think the %full calc is based on file size and not time.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I have been able to make the R15 create a 250GB FAT32 partition on a 250GB drive and the R15 runs the same as it does on the 160GB drive. No more, no less bugs. I've been recording shows and testing on the 250GB drive and it still appears that even on a 250GB partition, the space available for user recordings is hard coded at 100GB.


Out of curiosity, how did you get the R15 to create the larger partition?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

pentium101 said:


> Out of curiosity, how did you get the R15 to create the larger partition?


I'm still verifying that. The 250GB drive I did is working fine and I'm currently filling it up until it stops recording just to see how much it records. I had also tried a 300GB drive, which was reformatted to a 300GB partition, but the R15 would not reboot the 300GB drive after it was reformatted. I'm checking my notes to make sure I didn't skip a step but as I'm filling up the 250 right now I haven't had time to try the 300 again. I'll post more once I have things nailed down...or semi-nailed down.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

Wolffpack, any new progress updates on using the larger drive?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

pentium101 said:


> Wolffpack, any new progress updates on using the larger drive?


Still running into the same wall. No matter the size of the drive/partition, the R15 still only has 100 hrs of recording space. This is also true with 10B8.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

While not a scientific poll and with only 65 respondents, 93.84% either have no interest in VOD (20%) or would like control/usage of that spare 60GB VOD reserve. Humm.

Walters, maybe you should get your Monkey out of it's cage and let's see just how many folks on this board are looking forward/will use DTV's upcoming VOD/Showcase feature.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Walters, maybe you should get your Monkey out of it's cage and let's see just how many folks on this board are looking forward/will use DTV's upcoming VOD/Showcase feature.


I'd be glad to if someone will come up with the questions. I'm so uninterested in the topic I can't even think of any. 

Actually, that's not completely true. I am very interested in some of the IPTV stuff that's starting to happen. But for that you don't need 60GB of reserved space--you only need a fast Internet connection.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I would much rather more recording space than VOD or anything else.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> I'd be glad to if someone will come up with the questions. I'm so uninterested in the topic I can't even think of any.
> 
> Actually, that's not completely true. I am very interested in some of the IPTV stuff that's starting to happen. But for that you don't need 60GB of reserved space--you only need a fast Internet connection.


From my understand IPTV isn't IPTV the whole thin client idea with one server and the TV's running off the thinclient? I hope D* gets thier's out soon cause that's what I really want.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> From my understand IPTV isn't IPTV the whole thin client idea with one server and the TV's running off the thinclient? I hope D* gets thier's out soon cause that's what I really want.


No, not really (although that's interesting too).

I was talking about content being available on the Internet (you're talking about content being available on another box in your house on your own LAN). This is really the only way satellite will ever have true on-demand (rather than setting aside some amount of space to push stuff they think you might want to watch later).

E.g. CNET TV But really it can (and should) cover the whole spectrum from PPV-like content to old episodes of current and past TV shows (see ABC, Fox for current TV, AOL In2TV for old stuff), all the way down to video blogs (YouTube and the like). Basically we're beginning to see a whole lot of (good and bad) video available on the Internet, and I for one would rather watch it on my couch than at my desk.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

OK, I thought the IPTV was just for DSL companys. Basically I thought that it was the phone companies version of cable or sat. With the added benifits of one server and Ondemand via the web. Ever since I saw the video of Vooms whole house DVR video with the thin clients I wanted it. But sadly that won't happen.


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

What is VOD/Showcase?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

gomezma1 said:


> What is VOD/Showcase?


VOD is Video on Demand. It is a place for DirecTV to push things to you unit. Stuff like PPV's, Movies, etc. Thing other people have payed $$$ for that they hope you'll watch.


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