# What happens first - more tuners on Genie or multiple Genies allowed?



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Chances are this isn't an absolute many would know here but if nothing else I thought the discussion might give me some insight on what way to lean on a couple things. More or less, this is just discussion. Doesn't have to be based on fact.

I can appreciate the difficulties with multiple genies trying to work together more than I can understand not building a Genie with more than 5 tuners. That's seems relatively easy in comparison. Considering many, many households have a need greater than 4 viewing areas, I don't understand why a unit with more than 5 tuners isn't already available. I have to think that at some point DTV would love to eliminate anything but clients on a single system but without increasing from 5 tuners it's clear those limitations won't allow that to ever happen.

Of course the other answer would be multiple Genies. So, which happens first in everyone's humble opinions?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

If they had more than 5 tuners, we really would need an increase in the number of series links. It can be hard enough with 100.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

I guess little is ever as easy as it seems. I'm sure advancements will happen in time. Most of what happens today seemed impossible not long ago.


----------



## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

My guess would be more tuners so that most users will not exceed the 8 tuner limit.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I expect multiple genies before a bigger genie. I hope for both. 

But a bigger genie has questions like hard drive speed and such when you get to the point of how many streams would be possible. Today's genies can do 10 (actually 11) things at once. If you upped the tuner count to say 8 and the outbound attend to say 6 you'd be looking at 16 things at once (again real 17 due to guide data). That might get a bit hard to do for a single hard drive. 

However their business direction will force them to allow multiple genies at some point.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

fleckrj said:


> My guess would be more tuners so that most users will not exceed the 8 tuner limit.


Huh? What 8 tuner limit. That lnb limit is working its way to 13 off a single line now. .


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

J Blow said:


> . . . . .
> 
> Of course the other answer would be multiple Genies. So, which happens first in everyone's humble opinions?


Hopefully, at this winter Vegas show, we find out what trademark _Genie Lite_ stands for.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

I'm not a believer in putting all my eggs in one basket, so I'm hoping DdirecTV next step are multi-Genie setups.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I expect multiple genies before a bigger genie. I hope for both.
> 
> But a bigger genie has questions like hard drive speed and such when you get to the point of how many streams would be possible. Today's genies can do 10 (actually 11) things at once. If you upped the tuner count to say 8 and the outbound attend to say 6 you'd be looking at 16 things at once (again real 17 due to guide data). That might get a bit hard to do for a single hard drive.
> 
> However their business direction will force them to allow multiple genies at some point.


Hard drive speed isn't an issue. Directv is fitting 5 or 6 HD channels in a transponder, and that transponder is limited to about 40 Mbps. That means a typical HD channel is less than 1 megabyte per second on Directv. Seagate rates their current line of drives designed for AV use to handle 16 HD streams with 2MB host RAM dedicated to buffering for each stream. Based on transfer rates that sounds quite conservative to me.

Their specs consider an HD stream to be a 2.4 MB/sec MPEG2 stream, at least twice the size of a typical Directv MPEG4 stream - remember, most cable companies still use MPEG2 for HD. So you could pretty much build a 16 tuner Genie and have it recording 16 HD programs and serving 15 DECA clients an HD stream all at the same time.

Not sure what you mean about their business direction forcing them to allow multiple Genies at some point?


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

J Blow said:


> Considering many, many households have a need greater than 4 viewing areas,


Dont know where that is coming form. The majority of folks do fine with the standard DirecTV® advertised set up of 1 Genie plus 3 clients. The one that post here a considered to be the minority "power users" that need more than five tuners at the same time. There are few drawbacks of making a "super huge" systems that allows sharing and disables the option to not share by design. Not every one wants to share their playlist and today this is possible by getting a standalone DVR.

Before having a "super" Genie, DirecTV® needs to address their SWM system to have more than 13 tuners one a single cable, and I don't know if this is even feasible


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

First, there's clearly a demand for more than five tuners which is the bottom line. Maybe I'm not speaking for the majority but of all the households I know with dtv, well over half have more than 4 viewing areas. Again maybe not representative of the whole but clearly defines need.

Not sharing playlists would be a relatively simple fix to some of the other obstacles. I find it hard to believe that making playlist sharing on/off is something that can't be accomplished with software changes. 

Finally, the fact that we already have 8 and 13 tuner lnbs pretty much makes it already a good idea for a increased tuner genie. If anytime would ever be a good time to indicate what would cover the majority of users, it should now be said that 8 or 13 tuners would seem sufficient.


----------



## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

I agree on 8 tuners... That would allow 3 minis to watch live tv, and still have the Genie watching a channel of its own AND room for 4 separate recordings (or additional minis). That would cover all but the largest capacity customers.

Plus it would cut down on account stacking..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

J Blow said:


> . I find it hard to believe that making playlist sharing on/off is something that can't be accomplished with software changes.


Not in a Server/Client system


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

J Blow said:


> First, there's clearly a demand for more than five tuners which is the bottom line.


Agree, but this is not the status quo. I can tell you from personal experience. Now the ones that do need more tuners, can easily get by adding HD or HDDVRs.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> Before having a "super" Genie, DirecTV® needs to address their SWM system to have more than 13 tuners one a single cable, and I don't know if this is even feasible


The DSWM chip used in the SWM 13 LNB can output 23 tuners (plus guide) but was deliberately limited to 13. Not sure of the exact reasons why, but if they wanted to introduce a SWM 23 LNB to allow a 16 tuner Mega Genie they could easily do so


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> The DSWM chip used in the SWM 13 LNB can output 23 tuners


What would be the highest frequency with 23 tuners?


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Agree, but this is not the status quo. I can tell you from personal experience. Now the ones that do need more tuners, can easily get by adding HD or HDDVRs.


That was going to be my comment. You can have a Genie plus any quantity of HR2x units you want. There are systems with 30+ tuners out there. You'll run into whole-home problems before you run into too many tuner problems.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

I would be happy if they could just make the dvrs as responsive as the hr44 genie, and being able to record on other dvrs if all tuners on genie/dvr are taken, it kinda sucks when I have all 5 tuners recording college fb games I have to walk to another room to schedule a 6th.....

Also it would be nice if a series is unable to record due to lack of a free tuner/higher priority series that the dvr/genie would set to record on a dvr that had a free tuner ....


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

That's the whole point - genies/clients hold distinct advantages. Of course there are alternatives but it's not relevant to the scope of this discussion.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

J Blow said:


> That's the whole point - genies/clients hold distinct advantages. Of course there are alternatives but it's not relevant to the scope of this discussion.


I guess what my point was if the genie could use the DVR tuners same as its internal you could have essentially a 7,9,11 tuner genie without new hardware just a software change.

But I was thinking out load.

If that's not possible would hope for another genie on account vs just a few more tuners added to current


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> What would be the highest frequency with 23 tuners?


The center frequency of channel 24 would be a bit under 2148 MHz, just within the range of the tuner. For comparison, the center frequency for 103ca transponder 23/24 in a legacy install is around 2120 MHz.

The decision for 13 clearly had nothing to do with frequency, the highest frequency on a SWM 13 LNB is significantly lower than that on the old SWM LNB. It may have had to do with splitter losses, though even if you split 16 ways the DECA losses are no worse than they are on a SWM16 with 8 ways on each leg, and they could have bumped the output by 5 db to account for the additional SWM losses. I suppose the percentage of residential customers who have more than 13 tuners is so small wasn't worth bothering with.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I'd always vote multiple first, a decentralized architecture would be highly desired. It would provide great flexibility.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I suppose the percentage of residential customers who have more than 13 tuners is so small wasn't worth bothering with.


Exactly my thoughts! Thus the reason a 5 tuner Genie makes complete sense for the "regular"customers


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Sixto said:


> I'd always vote multiple first, a decentralized architecture would be highly desired. It would provide great flexibility.


Yep, same here. don't like the "all eggs in one basket" scenario


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Exactly my thoughts! Thus the reason a 5 tuner Genie makes complete sense for the "regular"customers


I agree, that is why I wish the genie could utilize additional DVR tuners if all its tuners are taken. I noticed when scheduling a recording on my wifi network with the directv app it will tell me if there are recording conflicts on a dvr or genie. To me it would be real simple for the genie to just send the recording to a open dvr turner or vise versa...


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> I agree, that is why I wish the genie could utilize additional DVR tuners if all its tuners are taken.


But there is no need for that, the DVRs are smart enough to know if there is a conflict to record the highest priority show and will record the missed recording later when it re-airs. Of course this only works if the operator is smart enough to know how to prioritize the shows. The Genie is as smart as its operator, this is why my Genie is a GENIUS&#8230;.. :rotfl:


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> But there is no need for that, the DVRs are smart enough to know if there is a conflict to record the highest priority show and will record the missed recording later when it re-airs. Of course this only works if the operator is smart enough to know how to prioritize the shows. The Genie is as smart as its operator, this is why my Genie is a GENIUS&#8230;.. :rotfl:


I guess you don't understand what I am saying, if on the genie I have 6 shows needing to record at 6:00pm and my dvr in the other room has none I will still miss the lowest priority recording unless I manually go into the other room and record it on the DVR. Why couldn't the genie be smart enough to do that anyways since the dvr tuners were free....


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> I guess you don't understand what I am saying, if on the genie I have 6 shows needing to record at 6:00pm and my dvr in the other room has none I will still miss the lowest priority recording unless I manually go into the other room and record it on the DVR. Why couldn't the genie be smart enough to do that anyways since the dvr tuners were free....


I fully understand you point, but you completely missed mine.

If you schedule the show with the correct priority, the sixth show still record, albeit later&#8230; By the time you finish watching the first five shows, the sixth would of been already recorded&#8230;. What is the rush to have the name on the playlist&#8230;.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I fully understand you point, but you completely missed mine.
> 
> If you schedule the show with the correct priority, the sixth show still record, albeit later&#8230; By the time you finish watching the first five shows, the sixth would of been already recorded&#8230;. What is the rush to have the name on the playlist&#8230;.


Not always, like today, I had to go and record a few football games on my dvr due to genie out of tuners, the game may come back on later but usually around 2 am on espn......

Just looked, we missed gotham monday on my wifes hr24 due to lack of an open tuner, and again missed on friday for the same... We will now have to wait until its on VOD until we can watch it..... I am sure one of my other dvr's had an open tuner, I suppose she could have checked the list and recorded on a another dvr but that's my point, why couldn't it do it for her......


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> the game may come back on later but usually around 2 am on espn......


So why not record the games later&#8230;. by your case, no amount of tuners will ever be enough&#8230;. If you get 8 you will need 9 and so on. I got 16 recordable tuners, and 99% of the time I get away with only using 5 as I never watch live TV. Those 5 tuners are always available to record.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> So why not record the games later&#8230;. by your case, no amount of tuners will ever be enough&#8230;. If you get 8 you will need 9 and so on. I got 16 recordable tuners, and 99% of the time I get away with only using 5 as I never watch live TV. Those 5 tuners are always available to record.


Clearly you don't watch much college football.... for example the next georgia @ missouri game would be monday, same with florida state game, Oklahoma game would be next on the 15th etc etc... its sports we watch them live, I record them so if one gets good I can switch over to it.

what....? She only had 2 things recording how is that out of the ordinary.... she missed the lower priority series link

I understand the current setup works for you, I am saying they could make it better for the "common customer", like my wife.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

peds48 said:


> Exactly my thoughts! Thus the reason a 5 tuner Genie makes complete sense for the "regular"customers





peds48 said:


> Yep, same here. don't like the "all eggs in one basket" scenario


I can see DirecTV going with Genie 'only' in their library when they let customers have more than one Genie. I hoping their trademarking of Genie Lite is their answer.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> Clearly you don't watch much college football.... for example the next georgia @ missouri game would be monday, same with florida state game, Oklahoma game would be next on the 15th etc etc... its sports we watch them live, I record them so if one gets good I can switch over to it.
> what....? She only had 2 things recording how is that out of the ordinary.... she missed the lower priority series link
> 
> I understand the current setup works for you, I am saying they could make it better for the "common customer", like my wife.


so that is two games the Genie has five tuners, what are the other three being used for?

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> so that is two games the Genie has five tuners, what are the other three being used for?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


More games..... I can take a pic of my list if ya want, haven't deleted any yet...

All recording at same time with 1 hour and 30 extension
Georgia @ Missouri
Florida state @ cue
Oklahoma @ texas
Auburn @ miss state
Oregon @ UCLA
TCU @ Baylor
North Carolina @ N Dame
OK state @ kansas

ALL at the same time......


----------



## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> Just looked, we missed gotham monday on my wifes hr24 due to lack of an open tuner, and again missed on friday for the same... We will now have to wait until its on VOD until we can watch it..... I am sure one of my other dvr's had an open tuner, I suppose she could have checked the list and recorded on a another dvr but that's my point, why couldn't it do it for her......


This is why network programming should always be at the top of the priority list. This rule should apply even more so to Fox programming, since DirecTV doesn't have Fox VOD. Your wife is going to need to find a non-DirecTV methodology to watch last week's episode of Gotham.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> This is why network programming should always be at the top of the priority list. This rule should apply even more so to Fox programming, since DirecTV doesn't have Fox VOD. Your wife is going to need to find a non-DirecTV methodology to watch last week's episode of Gotham.


I totally understand that... but she is a busy woman, she works, we have kids. She hit record series on it to try it out, of course as you know that puts it on the bottom, But again even if she would have moved it to #1 on the HR24 she would have just missed something else at that time slot... she did move it though now.... onto my genie.... :-(...lol! Which is my whole point, it shouldn't have to be that way.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Order your series links by channel number, lowest to highest, and unless there's a bunch of sports issues, you will be ok. Really sports is the only reason I have found that I ever need more than five tuners to get everything that is on in a week. However with sports, its tough for me to do some weeks even with 10 tuners..


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Is the Genie really not smart enough to automatically record a later showing when there's a conflict without the operator having to worry about changing priorities to make it happen? My dual tuner Tivo will do this.

If I had three season pass shows all at 8 pm, and one of them is shown again at 10 pm, it'll automatically record that 10 pm showing, regardless of what priorities they each have. The Genie isn't very smart if it can't even figure that much out for itself.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Is the Genie really not smart enough to automatically record a later showing when there's a conflict without the operator having to worry about changing priorities to make it happen? My dual tuner Tivo will do this.
> 
> If I had three season pass shows all at 8 pm, and one of them is shown again at 10 pm, it'll automatically record that 10 pm showing, regardless of what priorities they each have. The Genie isn't very smart if it can't even figure that much out for itself.


It will do that


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Is the Genie really not smart enough to automatically record a later showing when there's a conflict without the operator having to worry about changing priorities to make it happen? My dual tuner Tivo will do this.
> 
> If I had three season pass shows all at 8 pm, and one of them is shown again at 10 pm, it'll automatically record that 10 pm showing, regardless of what priorities they each have. The Genie isn't very smart if it can't even figure that much out for itself.


Yes of course it will. But.... The issue is network programs for the most part isn't shown multiple times a week. So if you have say three sports games and five network shows on you likely will miss something, where as if they are all regular shows, then you likely won't because any cable conflicts would be picked up latter, unlike network shows that would be missed for sports events.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> Just looked, we missed gotham monday on my wifes hr24 due to lack of an open tuner, and again missed on friday for the same... We will now have to wait until its on VOD until we can watch it..... I am sure one of my other dvr's had an open tuner, I suppose she could have checked the list and recorded on a another dvr but that's my point, why couldn't it do it for her......


If you have a Roku, you can watch the Gotham episode from 10/6/14 via FOX NOW channel. And with this specific episode/series no log in with a supported provider of FOX NOW is required (which I know D* is not). Generally select episodes, including those from new FOX series, are available for viewing without logging in.

When you select a show you can tell by the row and section the episodes are grouped: 
If it says:
Full Episodes - Watch Now = No log in required
Full Episodes - Activation Required = supported provider log in required


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

coolman302003 said:


> If you have a Roku, you can watch the Gotham episode from 10/6/14 via FOX NOW channel. And with this specific episode/series no log in with a supported provider of FOX NOW is required (which I know D* is not). Generally select episodes, including those from new FOX series, are available for viewing without logging in.
> 
> When you select a show you can tell by the row and section the episodes are grouped:
> If it says:
> ...


Thanks, we don't have a roku but do have a smart tv, I will have her check on it.


----------



## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> Thanks, we don't have a roku but do have a smart tv, I will have her check on it.


No worries. 

List of devices that support FOX NOW app.
http://www.fox.com/foxnow/


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

When we had dual tuners DVRs, it seemed that was enough for awhile. Then the 5 tuner DVR came and it seemed to cure the need for more tuners issue, at least for a while. Now we need more. No matter how many tuners we have in one DVRs, there will be always be a need for more for a few minority. What DirecTV® has right now, is “good enough” for "joe blow"


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> When we had dual tuners DVRs, it seemed that was enough for awhile. Then the 5 tuner DVR came and it seemed to cure the need for more tuners issue, at least for a while. Now we need more. No matter how many tuners we have in one DVRs, there will be always be a need for more for a few minority. What DirecTV® has right now, is "good enough" for "joe blow"


Difference is , we wouldn't be trying to run our whole house off of a 5 tuner dvr back when we we using 2 tuners per room.

Directv is trying to force us into using 5 tuners when we were using 8 for a 4 room dvr house.

So they want to give us less for more. 
It's not as cost effective to add addtional HD dvrs as directv has basically made it that way by not giving the free, discounts they once did.

Even new customers only get a Genie, and 4 clients, or 4 HD receivers for those that don't want dvr.

Seems to me Directv and Dish, are both at the bottom when it comes to anything over a 3 room system, unless you want to pay $200 + just to add equipment.

My Tivo install today, cost me Zero.
And I'm getting 2 Roamio pluses, and 2 minis, a standard HD box, and 3 analog jacks, an increase of 5 mbps internet, and without discounts, still beat directv by $15.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> I agree, that is why I wish the genie could utilize additional DVR tuners if all its tuners are taken. I noticed when scheduling a recording on my wifi network with the directv app it will tell me if there are recording conflicts on a dvr or genie. To me it would be real simple for the genie to just send the recording to a open dvr turner or vise versa...


This is a great idea that long time forum members may recall was known as "collaborative scheduling", where in a Whole Home setup all DVRs can see not only each other's Playlists but also each other's To Do Lists, and in the event of a recording conflict on one DVR, an attempt would be made to record on any other free DVR.

This idea came up before Genie, back in the day when a standard 4-room install was four DVRs, and we thought we could have 200 series and 8 tuners running at the same time in a collaborative scheduling environment.

Now that Genie's here the standard 4-room installs are the Genie plus 3 clients, so we are down to 100 series and 5 tuners, but for most customers that single scheduler is all they need. I don't think that negates the desire to want all non-Genie DVRs in the house to also collaboratively schedule recordings, but Genis is now DIRECTV's solution so I don't think DIRECTV will ever spend any time or resources to adding collaborative scheduling.

Back to the thread topic, I would love to see Genie moving to 6 or 8 tuners. TiVo and Cable companies area already there (Cablevision offers 10 tuners in their cloud DVR), so DIRECTV needs to remain competitive. I think we'll actually see more tuners in a new Genie before we see official support for multiple Genies.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Difference is , we wouldn't be trying to run our whole house off of a 5 tuner dvr back when we we using 2 tuners per room.


if course, no one started (mostly) with more than one DVR from the get go. We built our system of multiple DVRs over time by taking promotions when they were offered. that has not charged and can be still be done now.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

peds48 said:


> if course, no one started (mostly) with more than one DVR from the get go. We built our system of multiple DVRs over time by taking promotions when they were offered. that has not changed and can be still be done now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

It's funny how this discussion has evolved into number of tuners needed based on ability to record. That's fine but my initial questions weren't even from that standpoint. It amazes me how much you guys record. Anyway, I'll agree that there are definitely work arounds when it comes the current system. My main desire for more tuners or multiple genies is viewing locations and I really like the small form factor of the genie versus the big box. Honestly, I'd be just as happy with a genie sized box that held a standalone tuner that allowed me dvr function. The idea that a 4 room viewing limit now 'works for most' is ridiculous. No company operates that way and doesn't eventually lose customer base.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

J Blow said:


> It's funny how this discussion has evolved into number of tuners needed based on ability to record&#8230;&#8230;. My main desire for more tuners or multiple genies is viewing locations &#8230;....


So if you are only concerned with viewing locations, this thread is moot. You can get by getting H25s and perhaps one HDDVR. Multiple tuners really come in to place when watching live TV and recording in multiple locations all at the same time.


----------



## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

This whole discussion is one reason I haven't pressed DirecTV for a Genie upgrade yet. My 2 year agreement is up, and my HR34 exhibits all the problems and glitches described by others. But I keep hoping a larger tuner one is in the works and will appear after the new SWM13 LNB becomes more common.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

peds48 said:


> So if you are only concerned with viewing locations, this thread is moot. You can get by getting H25s and perhaps one HDDVR. Multiple tuners really come in to place when watching live TV and recording in multiple locations all at the same time.


When you say a moot point, I'm not sure I understand. This now creates a bigger dilemma? I think I'm confused about what H25s can do. Do they function like a Genie client basically? I still want DVR functionality but I just won't be maxing it out like so many here. I watch a lot of almost live tv where I am catching up from a pause, etc. We still do some recording.

Right now I have two of the horribly slow HR22/23 models. I dislike both their size and functionality but if a HR24 performs similar to a genie or client I could make that work. I just much prefer the small units to hang behind a flat screen.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

cpalmer2k said:


> This whole discussion is one reason I haven't pressed DirecTV for a Genie upgrade yet. My 2 year agreement is up, and my HR34 exhibits all the problems and glitches described by others. But I keep hoping a larger tuner one is in the works and will appear after the new SWM13 LNB becomes more common.


You already have a Genie, the HR34


----------



## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

peds48 said:


> You already have a Genie, the HR34


By Genie upgrade I mean to the HR44, or a future model that actually works more than 25% of the time. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

J Blow said:


> When you say a moot point, I'm not sure I understand. This now creates a bigger dilemma? I think I'm confused about what H25s can do. Do they function like a Genie client basically? I still want DVR functionality but I just won't be maxing it out like so many here. I watch a lot of almost live tv where I am catching up from a pause, etc. We still do some recording.
> 
> Right now I have two of the horribly slow HR22/23 models. I dislike both their size and functionality but if a HR24 performs similar to a genie or client I could make that work. I just much prefer the small units to hang behind a flat screen.


The H25 is capable of playing recordings from, and scheduling recordings to, a DVR (Genie or regular). They are not capable of DVR functionality with regard to live viewing (pause, rewind, FF). But if you record the show, you can then watch it on the H25 with those capabilities.


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Okay everybody, let's discuss the topic, and not take shots at one another about their opinions. This thread is starting to get a bit too personal.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Maybe I'm oblivious but I haven't seen any shots at anyone. I thought it's been a good discussion. 

Back to the beginning, ideally what I want is about 6-7 viewing locations with dvr functionality at each. I don't need to tie up 3 or 4 tuners at each location. I could likely get by with less than 13. Two genies with 3 clients each would be perfect. So would a 10+ tuner genie. 

I can clearly see why this still wouldn't work for some, though.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

carl6 said:


> Okay everybody, let's discuss the topic, and not take shots at one another about their opinions. This thread is starting to get a bit too personal.


Ok, I see it now in my email. I'm ok with it. Turns out I guess I did know how they worked but most of the time I start a thread is to find out exactly how things work and how I can make them work better for me with input from others. I know the conversation evolved but that's just how all dialogs typically work. It seems to be a good learning tool for many.

Through all this I'm starting to think I may have a couple tvs that are split from a single receiver. Of course I had considered this previously but for $6 a month versus equipment costs additional receivers provide good value.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> When we had dual tuners DVRs, it seemed that was enough for awhile. Then the 5 tuner DVR came and it seemed to cure the need for more tuners issue, at least for a while. Now we need more. No matter how many tuners we have in one DVRs, there will be always be a need for more for a few minority. What DirecTV® has right now, is "good enough" for "joe blow"


I agree, before I had my genie I had 5 dvr's and that was enough for me, yes I had to go to each one and record 2 games but it worked. Having a genie and 4 dvr's is more than plenty and does make it a little easier. That is why I think instead of more tuners just have a easier and more user friendly way to manage the one's we already have.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> This is a great idea that long time forum members may recall was known as "collaborative scheduling", where in a Whole Home setup all DVRs can see not only each other's Playlists but also each other's To Do Lists, and in the event of a recording conflict on one DVR, an attempt would be made to record on any other free DVR.


While "collaborative scheduling" would be even better I understand how that would be difficult to implement. If they did it as I suggested the dvr's would have no idea what was on each other to do list or in the series manager. If all tuners were taken on the first DVR it would simply do what you can from the directv app now, attempt to schedule a one time recording on another DVR, the other DVR will simply take the recording or reject it... simple as that. HD receivers already give you the option of choosing which DVR to record to.... so the basic ground work is there for sending recordings to different DVR's.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

It's advancing technology. We have numerous examples of things we once thought wasn't necessary before they existed. Cell phones is a simple example. We always made do.

I can easily get by with what I have but that wasn't the point of this discussion from the start.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> While "collaborative scheduling" would be even better I understand how that would be difficult to implement. If they did it as I suggested the dvr's would have no idea what was on each other to do list or in the series manager. If all tuners were taken on the first DVR *it would simply do *what you can from the directv app now, attempt to schedule a one time recording on another DVR, the other DVR will simply take the recording or reject it... simple as that. HD receivers already give you the option of choosing which DVR to record to.... so the basic ground work is there for sending recordings to different DVR's.


It's not actually as simple as that, though, since a user interactively uses an H25 to schedule a recording on another DVR (just like in the DIRECTV app or web site), whereas it seems you want the DVR that has the recording conflict to *on its own *sending a request for recording to any other DVR. That's automation that actually works out to be "collaborative scheduling": Send a request to another DVR to make the recording, but if you have 8 DVRs and 7 of them have free tuners, you don't want all 7 DVRs to record it - just one of them needs to, so there has to be more than "simply take [...] or reject it." I would have loved this in all the years I had DVRs before I got my Genie. The concept is simple, but unfortunately the execution is not!


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> It's not actually as simple as that, though, since a user interactively uses an H25 to schedule a recording on another DVR (just like in the DIRECTV app or web site), whereas it seems you want the DVR that has the recording conflict to *on its own *sending a request for recording to any other DVR. That's automation that actually works out to be "collaborative scheduling": Send a request to another DVR to make the recording, but if you have 8 DVRs and 7 of them have free tuners, you don't want all 7 DVRs to record it - just one of them needs to, so there has to be more than "simply take [...] or reject it." I would have loved this in all the years I had DVRs before I got my Genie. The concept is simple, but unfortunately the execution is not!


That could be a simple select once feature in a menu, example if bedroom DVR has conflict try to always record on Livingroom DVR, automation is the point of a DVR..... It records things for me.

Also I understand it may never happen ...but honestly if you told me 7 years ago I could someday schedule a recording to my dvr in my RV not connected to a phone line or Internet all from my cell phone I would say that will never happen... But it did and is great!


----------



## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I just want to control TDL and schedule recordings from remote DVR's not just from client/H2x.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> I just want to control TDL and schedule recordings from remote DVR's not just from client/H2x.


That would be cool but would require some serious software changes.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> That would be cool but would require some serious software changes.


Same serious changes as the allowing the over flow from a DVR to go to another one.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Same serious changes as the allowing the over flow from a DVR to go to another one.


Clearly you have never written software code
Its not at all the same.. what I am saying the base is there, just needs a few tweaks be implemented any decent software developer could do it. Hell directv send me the source code I will give a shot...


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> Clearly you have never written software code
> Its not at all the same.. what I am saying the base is there, just needs a few tweaks be implemented any decent software developer could do it. Hell directv send me the source code I will give a shot...


You are delaying with two servers. Has not been done in the industry, there must be a reason. You can def be the first.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> You are delaying with two servers. Has not been done in the industry, there must be a reason. You can def be the first.


Lol! Your way over complicating it, like I said if I could get the source code I would definitely try, I will be honest I am not a very good but I pretty sure I could implement a simple command and check box.

Honestly sharing the playlist as they do now is much more complex.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

If you can replicate a server commands on a another server, you are my hero! All we have now is server client topology


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> That could be a simple select once feature in a menu, example if bedroom DVR has conflict try to always record on Livingroom DVR, automation is the point of a DVR..... It records things for me.
> 
> Also I understand it may never happen ...but honestly if you told me 7 years ago I could someday schedule a recording to my dvr in my RV not connected to a phone line or Internet all from my cell phone I would say that will never happen... But it did and is great!


Sure, it could happen, but the real question is why would DIRECTV make or want it to happen?

What you are requesting would entail creation of a user preference screen plus a hook into existing service to remotely schedule a recording, updates to recording history, in-house testing, hopefully consumer testing, and if successful and approved, updates to customer service training as well as marketing, even if it is as simple as a line item on a bill.

DIRECTV is phasing out standalone receivers in favor of a Genie client/server setup, and while what you propose would marginally make older receivers more flexible, it's in such a limited fashion (to designate exactly one backup device in the event of a conflict), that DIRECTV doesn't get a lot of bang for their development buck.

I'm not saying this to dismiss the idea, because I think it's a great one and DIRECTV uses DBSTalk as a sounding board, so you never know, but realistically I don't think it would happen.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

I totally agree, my idea would only benefit a few, of course a dvr with more than 5 tuners would only benefit a few as well but we can hope


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> If you can replicate a server commands on a another server, you are my hero! All we have now is server client topology


If a HD receiver and a cell phone can send the command I don't see why another DVR can't.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Whoa...mostly just following along but a dvr with more than 5 tuners would benefit a lot of people I'd think. First of all, there might not be huge need beyond 4 rooms but that's too few tuners to have only a genie which I'd bet dtv is aiming for at some point.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> If a HD receiver and a cell phone can send the command I don't see why another DVR can't.


Because those falls under the Server-cleint topology. The DVR already sends to commands to itself, it has to replicate those commands to another server, so it has to become a client while at the same time being a server, you can have either, but not both at the dry same time. Please find me a situation where this is being done currently.


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

J Blow said:



> Whoa...mostly just following along but a dvr with more than 5 tuners would benefit a lot of people I'd think. First of all, there might not be huge need beyond 4 rooms but that's too few tuners to have only a genie which I'd bet dtv is aiming for at some point.


I disagree for beyond 4 rooms as peds pointed out they would just install h25's. Ideal no....

A large 8 room home could have 8 people watching live tv while recording 1 other show, again not ideal.....

I am hoping I am totally wrong though


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Because those falls under the Server-cleint topology. The DVR already sends to commands to itself, it has to replicate those commands to another server, so it has to become a client while at the same time being a server, you can have either, but not both at the dry same time. Please find me a situation where this is being done currently.


My daughter was watching a cartoon on my genie that was recorded on her DVR in her playroom, my genie was the client......


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

A DIRECTV® system is very versatile. You can have up to 8 minis on a Genie system. This solution would work for a couple (and perhaps a kid or two) that has lots of rooms but never uses more than 4 TVs at once. Having an 8 tuner Genie system may not be ideal either for a big family (8 members) as tuner over load will certainly occur. For this scenarios, once can optimized the system to ones needs by getting individual DVRs and/or HD receivers.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> My daughter was watching a cartoon on my genie that was recorded on her DVR in her playroom, my genie was the client......


Exactly, but when in client mode, it can't be a server on that very same connection. This is basic computer programing !


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Exactly, but when in client mode, it can't be a server on that very same connection. This is basic computer programing !


Sorry but your making a simple idea complicated.

The genie was still recoding my football game, I was still able to schedule tomorrow's game from my wifi enabled iPad on the genie while she was watching Callie's Wild West whatever... How did it get that info while in client mode.....

My idea has nothing to do with streaming it's just a simple command, just like my iPad sent.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> I just want to control TDL and schedule recordings from remote DVR's not just from client/H2x.


Yeah that won't ever come now. The hr2xs are on their way out and their time is limited. And I seriously doubt they will spend the money to do it for genies as there will be (assuming it happens one day which based on how they are getting rid of 2tuner Dvrs will happen at some point) very very few people who would have multiple genies in comparison to how many people had or have multiple 2 tuner Dvrs. But time will tell and we can all hope. I'd be happy with just being able to do it all with the iOS and android apps,

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> Sorry but your making a simple idea complicated.
> 
> The genie was still recoding my football game, I was still able to schedule tomorrow's game from my wifi enabled iPad on the genie while she was watching Callie's Wild West whatever... How did it get that info while in client mode.....
> 
> My idea has nothing to do with streaming it's just a simple command, just like my iPad sent.


I think there a much bigger issue. What do you do if you don't set it up to be truly interlinked? Right now the dvr will record a show at a repeat if it was unable to record the first run even if you have it set to record only the first run. The dvr will not know if it actually was able to record in the other dvr, so what do you have this one do. And remember, there will be phone calls if this feature causes people to miss the show, and if it causes them both to record the show and end up with two recordings of the same thing. Sad but both scenarios would be complained about far more than us complaining about not having this feature.

Being able to set recordings on another dvr another is one thing, but having them do it automatically is an entirely different animal imho because of how people will deal with it more than anything.

Unless you start linking the Dvrs so they not only can see each other's playlists, but also record based on things that are or are not on them, you run the risk of confusing people on what's going on.

You'd have to give a disclaimer and an option to turn it on saying that this could result in shows being recorded multiple times. And directv hates,options.
Also, how many people will this benefit, only those who have two genies. And how many of us do? Maybe 50 right now so there zero point in messing with it today...

Two tuner Dvrs would never be equipped for this, they are two old and the genies would be very different to program for this kind of feature....

If we ever get to multiple genies then I think just being smart how you set stuff up and full true iPad control would solve this issue. Just put all sports and one time events, movies, etc in one genie, and everything else in another. So unless you have more than five sports teams on at one time you have to watch (aside from Sunday ticket or college football since its in in the daytime in weekends) you'd be all set.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

You make a lot a valid points, especially on the recoding 2 of the same show, I honestly would be fine with it but I understand how it would confuse people, I suppose it could say something in the description sort of like a remote recording, again it's just an idea, I of course assume it would be available on both dvr and genie, so it would benefit me right now...


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Drew2k said:


> DIRECTV is phasing out standalone receivers in favor of a Genie client/server setup, and while what you propose would marginally make older receivers more flexible, it's in such a limited fashion (to designate exactly one backup device in the event of a conflict), that DIRECTV doesn't get a lot of bang for their development buck.


Who says they're phasing out standard receivers? They can't, they will always be required for commercial accounts if nothing else. There are other places where few would want a Genie and most would prefer a receiver, like tailgating setups, RVs, places like guest rooms, boat houses, bathrooms (yes, I know I people with TVs in their bathrooms, yes I think that's pretty stupid)

I think they may phase out standard DVRs, and replace them with receivers that can have an external hard drive attached to turn them into DVRs.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Who says they're phasing out standard receivers? They can't, they will always be required for commercial accounts if nothing else. There are other places where few would want a Genie and most would prefer a receiver, like tailgating setups, RVs, places like guest rooms, boat houses, bathrooms (yes, I know I people with TVs in their bathrooms, yes I think that's pretty stupid)
> 
> I think they may phase out standard DVRs, and replace them with receivers that can have an external hard drive attached to turn them into DVRs.


 DIRECTV has been very successful with Genie for new customers, so I think there will come a point when that is their standard install and getting a standalone receiver will be an exception. That to me is a phase-out.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Isn't Genie already the standard install, now that they're doing only HD installs? New customers can't get a better deal turning down the Genie in favor of something else, can they?


----------



## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

inkahauts said:


> Yeah that won't ever come now. The hr2xs are on their way out and their time is limited. And I seriously doubt they will spend the money to do it for genies as there will be (assuming it happens one day which based on how they are getting rid of 2tuner Dvrs will happen at some point) very very few people who would have multiple genies in comparison to how many people had or have multiple 2 tuner Dvrs. But time will tell and we can all hope. I'd be happy with just being able to do it all with the iOS and android apps,
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I would definitely consider 2 Genie account or at least Genie recording management to other DVR's, or a 8 tuner Genie but that would probably create issues for subs with multiple DVR's, but 2 Genie's is enough for me if only they could unrestrict it. And being able to watch recordings and manage on IOS or Android apps is definitely a must and not just in home network but OOH.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> The genie was still recoding my football game, I was still able to schedule tomorrow's game from my wifi enabled iPad on the genie while she was watching Callie's Wild West whatever... How did it get that info while in client mode.....


The Genie was the server and your iPad is the client.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Isn't Genie already the standard install, now that they're doing only HD installs? New customers can't get a better deal turning down the Genie in favor of something else, can they?


They can get only HD receivers if they don't feel like paying the ARS


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> The Genie was the server and your iPad is the client.


Yes but the genie was acting as a client at the time and being a server as you put it, if directv can make a ipad or iPhone do what I want with a simple app, no reason that another DVR couldn't do the same, it's really that simple.

Lol! I am getting tired of explaining a simple concept. I don't know what else to tell ya, I could draw ya a picture I guess  j/k

Other posters have brought up valid reasons why directv wouldn't do it, like possible duplicate recordings could confuse people, non issue for most but I could see the confusion/complaints.

I understand my idea isn't perfect but not for the reason you keep stating. But I do welcome criticism though, I believe that's how ideas get better.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mexican-bum said:


> Yes but the genie was acting as a client at the time and being a server as you put it, if directv can make a ipad or iPhone do what I want with a simple app, no reason that another DVR couldn't do the same, it's really that simple.
> 
> Lol! I am getting tired of explaining a simple concept. I don't know what else to tell ya, I could draw ya a picture I guess  j/k
> 
> ...


Since you want drawings&#8230; here ya go

HR44 C41
Server------>client
| HR44
client <--------server
iPad

HR44 HR24 
Server<---X--->Server
| 
client <---X-----client
iPad C41


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Since you want drawings&#8230; here ya go
> 
> HR44 C41
> Server------>client
> ...


HR24 Server recording ---------------> playing on HR44 Client
HR44 Server recording----------------> Playing on HR24 Client

They are already communicating with each other........ it doesn't need to be simultaneous 2 way connection...


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes it does need to be a 2 way street. You need to have a server client communication while AT THE SAME TIME be a client server. IOW while one is a client it has to be a server at the same time. Geeeezzz. Basic computer programming 


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Peds, don't take this the wrong way but don't quit your day job. 

The term client / server is only a moniker for the mode a box in the architecture is in. Any pc / micro / HR / computer of any type can be both at any time depending on what they're doing.

There's absolutely no reason that a HR44 couldn't program a HR2x -- it's only software and no one really cares who is the client or the server.

For example, the server that processes your banking transaction from your PC or iPhone (client), is also a client to another server that executes the transaction on your account - where ever that bank is. I've designed and operated multi-tierd client / server systems for the last 20 years.

It's just a simple fact that any coordinated or collaborative scheduling isn't on the development radar - as far as we know.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dennisj00 said:


> Peds, don't take this the wrong way but don't quit your day job.
> 
> The term client / server is only a moniker for the mode a box in the architecture is in. Any pc / micro / HR / computer of any type can be both at any time depending on what they're doing.


I know it's a moniker but I was trying to put it in layman's term. What you describe us still a server client communication. Geeeezzz why do hard to comprehend a simple relationship.....

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

"don't take this the wrong way but...." haha...that rarely precedes anything that anyone ever feels good about hearing.

So, maybe I'm really wrong about this but it's hard for me to believe that I'm really in such a small group of people that would like more than 4 viewing areas that have the benefits a Genie provides. Maybe a ridiculous number of tuners to quench the insatiable thirst of some mad recorders isn't going to happen but I just can't get by the idea that something like an eight to twelve tuner unit wouldn't be helpful to so many. Yes, I get the downsides but it's hard to think they aren't outweighed by many positives. Just seems like it's a very logical step and could/should be here quickly.

The next best thing would be a single (maybe dual as I have no understanding how that changes size) tuner client-like and sized box that's easily added on to the system. Am I the only one that really likes the form factor of the clients THAT MUCH more than the HR23/22 VCR-sized boxes I have? I'm not tied to any one thing but just have these simple desires:

ability to have more than four viewing locations with eight seeming reasonable;
small form factor like client sized for each tv to neatly tuck it behind the tv;
DVR functions on each location.
Here's the next question I have....it was mentioned how 'versatile' Genies are with an ability to have up to eight clients but only so many working together at any one time. I'm not sure I call that versatile but I get the idea. What's the advantage of multiple clients you are paying $6 each for if they can't be used simultaneously? Shouldn't they charge you for only four? Why wouldn't the best choice be to split the signal to multiple TVs if that's the setup?


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

If you are couple with one kid or two and have a house with say 7 rooms, since the family is only 4 members, it would make sense to use clients on the rooms and just make sure to turn clients off when not in use. that way you can go from to room and watch TV with DVR controls. 

While splitting off one box can be done, not anyone is tech savvy to get this done. and depending on how far away these rooms are, it might get expensive when trying to split using HDMI


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

So, you are saying at $18 a month in box fees, that you don't think there aren't equipment investments that offset the combination of the ease of use and expense? That's over $200 a year. Seems like some form of hdmi switching could make this happen and especially knowing it could be several years. Maybe that's the key - a solution could likely come about before the payoff. 

In addition to wanting to wire about seven rooms, I'd like multiple tvs (Sunday ticket) in one room. That would be a case where using signals from other rooms once a week would be more than efficient and economical I'd think. Keep in mind, I'm saying this without experience of splitting signals. 

Thanks for the input.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

A good redmere HDMI cable can go upwards of $75 or more times that by 3, now include labor, if you are not savvy. Wiring 3 rooms with HDMI can be $500 (and I am not referring to rooms back to back) so you choose.


----------



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

If you are talking about paying people to do things, I see the thought. I'm building my own basement from the concrete up - all aspects. I guess that's why the labor never occurred to me. 

Still gives me something to think about, though. I have everything wide open new running plumbing and electric so it's the time to decide.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

correct, not every one is "jack of all trades" 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

J Blow said:


> If you are talking about paying people to do things, I see the thought. I'm building my own basement from the concrete up - all aspects. I guess that's why the labor never occurred to me.
> 
> Still gives me something to think about, though. I have everything wide open new running plumbing and electric so it's the time to decide.


Since it's open id wire for both but prefer using a system where you have a box at each tv and not tied together. But wire for either and don't forget Ethernet to each location along with the coax and hdmi. Heck if you can do large conduit that would be perfect.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> A good redmere HDMI cable can go upwards of $75 or more times that by 3, now include labor, if you are not savvy. Wiring 3 rooms with HDMI can be $500 (and I am not referring to rooms back to back) so you choose.


No one should run an actual HDMI cable through walls or conduit. It is cheaper, easier, and a lot more future proof to run a couple cat5 cables and use a pair of dual cat5 to HDMI baluns. Or a cat6 balun, which needs only one cable but costs more, at least today. You can hide them behind the wall plate if you want a clean look with a simple HDMI port. You're probably already going to be running some anyway for network, line level audio, and so forth, what's two more?

HDMI cable is thicker and has to be run with the connectors on it, so if a cable goes bad or you need to upgrade to a newer HDMI standard you're going to try to pull it through connector first in conduit that has other stuff in it, around all the bends and what not and hope it doesn't get stuck or damaged. Good luck with that.

The other advantage to doing it this way is you can very cheaply wire a lot of locations for HDMI, including those you aren't going to have a TV at right away (or ever) by just running the cat5 and only adding the baluns if/when needed.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> No one should run an actual HDMI cable through walls or conduit. It is cheaper, easier, and a lot more future proof to run a couple cat5 cables and use a pair of dual cat5 to HDMI baluns. Or a cat6 balun, which needs only one cable but costs more, at least today. You can hide them behind the wall plate if you want a clean look with a simple HDMI port. You're probably already going to be running some anyway for network, line level audio, and so forth, what's two more?
> 
> HDMI cable is thicker and has to be run with the connectors on it, so if a cable goes bad or you need to upgrade to a newer HDMI standard you're going to try to pull it through connector first in conduit that has other stuff in it, around all the bends and what not and hope it doesn't get stuck or damaged. Good luck with that.
> 
> The other advantage to doing it this way is you can very cheaply wire a lot of locations for HDMI, including those you aren't going to have a TV at right away (or ever) by just running the cat5 and only adding the baluns if/when needed.


That's a bit to general to me. If their is large conduit and plenty of space to easily pull hdmi cables through and to even replace them if needed then I'd run hdmi first always. I'm doing just that right now for a friend. If it's tied down in walls and not easily swapped or pulled I agree with you. But large conduit and simple runs and pulls....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> No one should run an actual HDMI cable through walls or conduit. It is cheaper, easier, and a lot more future proof to run a couple cat5 cables and use a pair of dual cat5 to HDMI baluns. Or a cat6 balun, which needs only one cable but costs more, at least today. You can hide them behind the wall plate if you want a clean look with a simple HDMI port. You're probably already going to be running some anyway for network, line level audio, and so forth, what's two more?
> 
> HDMI cable is thicker and has to be run with the connectors on it, so if a cable goes bad or you need to upgrade to a newer HDMI standard you're going to try to pull it through connector first in conduit that has other stuff in it, around all the bends and what not and hope it doesn't get stuck or damaged. Good luck with that.
> 
> The other advantage to doing it this way is you can very cheaply wire a lot of locations for HDMI, including those you aren't going to have a TV at right away (or ever) by just running the cat5 and only adding the baluns if/when needed.


aren't those like $150 a set. At least the good ones?

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> aren't those like $150 a set. At least the good ones?


I know several people using the Monoprice ones that are $20/set. One had a plasma from the early 2000s that didn't work with them for some reason, but otherwise they had very good experiences.


----------

