# 522 name based recording is here



## stone phillips

it seems as though this download is available to everyone not just beta testers the dn software revision page reflects this as well


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## Mark Lamutt

The software is in limited release to 50,000 522s currently. It will be rolled out to everyone over the next month or so.

Release notes coming soon. And it's called "Event Based Recording (EBR)"...


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## Eagles

Mark Lamutt said:


> And it's called "Event Based Recording (EBR)"...


Does that have something to do with copywright/patent infringement?


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## Scott Greczkowski

Yesterday it rolled out to the 25 SatelliteGuys Testers.

Today it rolled out to 50,000 units.

It will be on all 522's by December 20th.

All 522's will receive a new features video showing you how to use the new features. In fact they will be getting the video twice (Dish wants to make sure you got it and watch it) 

And BTW on yesterdays retailer chat they called it Name Based Recording. And they also mention that they would have a Season Pass type feature in another software update in January.


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## Inaba

Oh nice... so the cheaper 522 gets the feature, but the 721 I paid through the nose for gets screwed.

How E* typical.


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## boba

What rev. is this and any bug reports from the testers that have had 24hr to play?


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## Mark Lamutt

In the software it is called Event Based Recording (at least as of last Friday on the unit that I played with).


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## Ron Barry

Mark Lamutt said:


> In the software it is called Event Based Recording (at least as of last Friday on the unit that I played with). It has a season pass feature now, but it doesn't work due to a bad decision made by the programmers (what the definition of a "New" recording is).


It is usually not the developers decision of what the definition of a "New" recording is. This sounds like a requirement and I would expect it to fall on marketing. However, having said that many companies including the one I work at have very weak marketing depertments and I have made these type of decisions on my own. Sometimes I get it right other times I am way off base. I am sure my Human factors training helps in the area, but I could easily see a developer making the wrong choice on something like this.

Based on past experience, it does not suprise me that a decision like this was put in the developers hands.


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## Mike Richardson

WTF!!!

Let's get this on the 50x and 7xx/9xx!


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## chaddux

Mike Richardson said:


> WTF!!!
> 
> Let's get this on the 50x and 7xx/9xx!


It's not coming to any 50x, the 721 or the 921.


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## BuckeyeChris

boba said:


> What rev. is this and any bug reports from the testers that have had 24hr to play?


Version L2.31 being released today according to Dish's Web site.

Thank you Dish. Merry Christmas early! :righton:


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## chaddux

BuckeyeChris said:


> Version L2.31 being released today according to Dish's Web site.
> 
> Thank you Dish. Merry Christmas early! :righton:


I was one who got it yesterday. There are a couple of minor issues (a brief flash of the channel information banner and "All Chans" only shows subscribed channels instead of all channels). I've had no other issues. After the Apprentice, I think I'll take some digital pictures and post them.


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## BuckeyeChris

Name Based Recording (NBR) and Season Pass are here baby! Last night a little past 10 o'clock (what happened to my 3 a.m. software updates?), I go to bed and turn on TV2 and see this big blue warning that I my receiver's memory is being upgraded and not to unplug the receiver or disturb it. :eek2: Well, of course I was not about to go to bed and miss this! A few minutes later after the unit downloaded a new program guide and acquired its signal, NBR and Season Pass were mine.  

I set up Seinfeld, the best television series of all time, as my first Season Pass entry. It searched throughout the guide and magically entered timer events for me that I hadn't even known about. Oh, I love you Dish. :heart: I could even set Seinfeld by priority so the 522 knows how to handle conflicts.

With NBR and Season Pass, has Dish leveled the field with the DirectTIVO?


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## SAEMike

Well maybe my 510 will get it sometime before NEXT Christmas. I'm not holding my breath though.


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## Scott Greczkowski

The 510 will NOT be getting the update. (Nor will the 721, 921, 501, 508)


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## ocnier

SAEMike said:


> Well maybe my 510 will get it sometime before NEXT Christmas. I'm not holding my breath though.


Basically mike, as Scott said above the 510 won't be getting it. Dish sent him an official email saying they have no plans to support the capability on certain units :510,721, or 921. I think it will be on the 942, but that's a long way off b/c I think they realized that they need to put the second ota tuner on board the unit, so in turn that sends the project back to the drawing board (this doesn't even begin take in the future mpeg 4 issues). So basically your screwed with a lot of other people. Once again Dish is playing catch up and ticking people off in the process. :nono2: Sorry Mike, you're not alone at least.


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## hikerak

Any reason the 508 will not be getting NBR?


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## ocnier

hikerak said:


> Any reason the 508 will not be getting NBR?


According to Scott it was only the 522 and no other 5xx series to recieve the update. At this time Dish has no other plans to support any other recievers. The REALLY REALLY crappy thing about this is that it indicates to me that Dish is going solely for the lease unit business model (the 522 is a lease model and the 942 is expected to be as well). This tells me that Charlie is going for every residual (monthly fees) form of income he can squeeze out of the customer, but time will tell. Sorry... I wish I had better news.


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## Mark Lamutt

Regarding the NBR issue, please keep in mind that currently these are all RUMORS, and that nothing has been confirmed. Scott posted the complete email in the 921 forum thread about this issue, and it's from someone at Dish that doesn't identify themselves. Both Scott and I are scrambling behind the scenes working to get confirmation or denial about it from official sources, but that hasn't come yet.

Yes, it's certainly possible that none of the older receivers will get NBR (or EBR as they call it) now. Or, this could be the result of a disgruntled CSR at Dish (gee, no one at Dish is disgruntled, are they?) looking to stir up trouble by leaking crap to the one person that is guaranteed to spread it everywhere.

EDIT: I was mistaken, and have been corrected by the leader of the name based recording team. Please see my corrected post about "New" recordings at the current end of the thread (page 2).


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## ocnier

Mark, i agree with you about treating a rumor as just that: a rumor, but even if it is just a disgruntled csr, dish has been somewhat shady in their decisions/practices as of late. It still raises the eyebrows/pucker factor of the subs.


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## SAEMike

ocnier said:


> Basically mike, as Scott said above the 510 won't be getting it. Dish sent him an official email saying they have no plans to support the capability on certain units :510,721, or 921. I think it will be on the 942, but that's a long way off b/c I think they realized that they need to put the second ota tuner on board the unit, so in turn that sends the project back to the drawing board (this doesn't even begin take in the future mpeg 4 issues). So basically your screwed with a lot of other people. Once again Dish is playing catch up and ticking people off in the process. :nono2: Sorry Mike, you're not alone at least.


Well that sucks, I didn't know that. Before they said they were going to roll out to the 522 and then the rest of the 5xx series. Well, it's not the first time I've been lied to by Dish Network, and probably one of the big reasons why I'll likely be dropping them when my committment is up and going back to cable.

Sorry Charlie, you can only lie to me so many times.


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## SAEMike

I emailed Dish Network to ask them if the 5xx series will EVER recieve the NBR. I'm sure I will recieve the common types of emails I usually get back from them that don't come even relatively close to answering the question I asked, but we will see


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## Randy_B

IF True and Dish does not support the 5xx, 721 and 921 with EBR/NBR then that will be the final straw for me. Their refusal to sell 522 to curent customers has been a burr under my butt for awhile and this would be the last straw. 9 yrs as Dish subscriber would be done. My note to [email protected] is sitting in my draft folder awaiting the send button.


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## Scott Greczkowski

I talked to a few at Dish last night and it appears to be true.  However I am also waiting to hear what Mark Lamutt finds out as well. But so far to me the silence speaks volumes.


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## SAEMike

The DVR offered by my cable company is looking more and more tempting every day unfortunately. Cable will cost me a little more, but I'll get more channels, where with Dish, I know I won't get any new channels on satellite 119.


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## ocnier

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I talked to a few at Dish last night and it appears to be true.  However I am also waiting to hear what Mark Lamutt finds out as well. But so far to me the silence speaks volumes.


I was afraid of that Scott, but I had a gut feeling.... :nono2:


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## Mark Lamutt

I have now confirmed this as well - no NBR for older Dish DVR receivers. Of course, Dish has been known to change their minds before if there's enough of a user backlash...


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## tinger

Now I feel better dumping the 510 I had aquired and used for 2 months and went back to a real PVR, ReplayTV.


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## Mark Lamutt

I received this from the NBR team leader for the 522 just a moment ago, correcting my erroneous statement about the definition of "New" recordings:

New Episodes: The receiver will create a timer only for current season episodes of the selected program on the selected channel. This includes new episodes and repeat episodes. If the receiver detects a previous season episode, it will automatically create a skipped timer.

What's going to be changed in a future software update is what the definition of the current season and previous season is. 

For ANY type of timer, if the event already exists on the HDD, then we will
still create a timer; however, it will be created as 'skipped - event exists
on HDD'.


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## tech_head

This is all very interesting but Dish seems to want to:
1. Kill the 921 (I'm getting on the phone to cancel mine).
2. Piss on the current customer base by not offering the 522.
3. Both of the above with no end in sight.

Let's see. I can't replace my "leased" 508 with a better unit because the 522 is only for new customers. I can't sell my 510 and get a 522 because; he 522 is only for new customers. I can buy a 721 but it won't be getting EBR. I plan to buy a 921 but it is basically a dead fish that has bugs.

So someone, please help me understand why I should bother with Dish since I've been a loyal customer for more that two years (not a long as some, I know). 

Maybe I should dump Dish and take my money to Direct or Comcast?

Kent


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## Scott Greczkowski

> So someone, please help me understand why I should bother with Dish since I've been a loyal customer for more that two years (not a long as some, I know).


Good question.


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## blakjak

Well, I think it's time to put my 721 down and fire up the old DirecTV UltimateTV receiver again. Even though it's one of the original PVR's, it still offers more than the 721 ever did (and ever will apparently) and is still a hell of a lot more stable (not to mention it is still supported!!!). I'll have to live with the slow searches, but WTF! 

E* has more to lose by abandoning me that I have to lose by abandoning E*. If they don't want my $$$, DTV or even cable (gasp!) will be more that happy to take it. Besides, I'll be signing on with them as a new customer and may even get some cool deals on DirecTivo's with NBR/EBR


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## mattoid

Well dish, it's been fun. Through my 4 years and 5 replaced 721's, I'm gone. It's been almost fun, but not really. Hello D*...


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## Randy_B

Sent my note to [email protected]. If this does hold true and E* doesn't reverse the course, then looks like my new house will be minus an Echstar dish mounted on the side. What the hell, 9+ yrs as a subscriber doesn't warrant any kind of loyalty from the provider does it!

Anyone have experience with the Humax Tivo DVD recorder/HDD connected up to DirecTV? That looks like a good solution.


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## Mike Richardson

chaddux said:


> It's not coming to any 50x, the 721 or the 921.


That's a load of crap!


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## Mike Richardson

Either they need to start selling/leasing the 522 or they need to put this software on some other models of dish DVR.


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## chaddux

Mike Richardson said:


> That's a load of crap!


Just relaying information. Don't shoot the messenger.


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## chriscyberTLC

Yet another company that ***** on their customers.......


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## Mike D-CO5

I think that it looks like Bob Haller was right all along. Maybe instead of Dish heads we should all join the Bob Haller group of anti Di****es. Charlie has surely converted me into a anti- di****e. I can't believe I ever discontinued Directv last year. I guess when my commitment is up on my FREE 510 , this summer, I will be going back to Directv. It is really a shame. I have been with Dish since Jan 18 1997 and I really like the service. Now I don't know why I have stayed this long and paid to upgrade for so long. The 3 /721s , the 811 that was full crap and the now dead 921 for 1000.00 , and let us not forget the infamous origional dishplayer 7100/7200 dvrs. I paid to upgrade to all of these receivers. Now they are all boat anchors when mpeg4 comes out , if it comes out, next year at this time.


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## bcas400e

This is good news! But we have a 522 and have not gotten the update, I even did a reset/power cycle and no update. 

I wonder when we will get the update?


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## Jacob S

I think that we should be given a reason why as to why there will be no NBR on the other receivers. They DID INDEED announce that it was coming to the other DVR's so that tells us that it IS INDEED possible to do. They have CHOSEN not to do this for some reason, but the question is why?


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## Mike Richardson

Is the 522 based on Linux? If it is... it should be short work to get NBR on the 7xx and 9xx.

Is the 522 based on the Open TV/Echostar proprietary type system (301, 501, 4900, etc.)? No problem... it should be short work then to get NBR on the 501, 508, and 510.

Either way they have already written NBR and it should be easy to port it to at least some of their machines. 

Any decision not to port it is 100% for other reasons.


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## Anonymous

Mike Richardson said:


> Is the 522 based on Linux? If it is... it should be short work to get NBR on the 7xx and 9xx.
> 
> Is the 522 based on the Open TV/Echostar proprietary type system (301, 501, 4900, etc.)? No problem... it should be short work then to get NBR on the 501, 508, and 510.
> 
> Either way they have already written NBR and it should be easy to port it to at least some of their machines.
> 
> Any decision not to port it is 100% for other reasons.


There could very well be an I/O or CPU bandwidth issue with the other boxes. For NBR to work, the machine has to be able to search through listings on the HD without pausing any recording that is currently being recorded. I think the 522 uses a i386 or i486 equivalent CPU running at something like 50Mhz with an ATA66 IDE controller. The other boxes may be using slower CPUs and or ATA33 meaning they can just barely record a stream let alone record a stream and search through the listings file(s) on the HD at the same time. Since TiVo was always designed to have such features all of those boxes have always had more horsepower than regular Dish DVRs. The 522 may have been the first "overpowered" Dish DVR but just barely (that, in my opinion, is why there are A/V sync issues). They may have spec'ed out the 522's hardware from the beginning for features like NBR but they may have underestimated the amount of horsepower required for such a daemon running on the system and thus it has taken this long for them to write code that can execute in the background without affecting two different veiwers watching two different recorded events while two additional events are being recorded. And since many people never put their 522 in standby, they can't just program the search to execute when no one is watching. But then again, what do I know?


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## Jacob S

There was a reason why they said they would be putting NBR on the other DVR's, because they knew at the time it was possible, otherwise they would not have announced it then.


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## Inaba

I sent this to [email protected]:



> To whom it may concern,
> 
> I have just learned that Echostar has chosen not to support Event Based Recording on the 721 receivers.
> 
> I was promised this feature more than a year and half ago when I signed up for Dishnetwork. I paid a ridiculous amount of money for the 721 at the time, and found it to be lacking in every conceivable way when compared to any other PVR on the market.
> 
> However, I was willing to deal with the bugs, the instability, the constant fear I would come home one day and all my recordings would be gone, the fear that I may create too many timers and lose everything. I was even willing to deal with the constant hassle of having to search for my shows that I wanted to record every day because they change time slots often.
> 
> I was PROMISED by CSRs at Dish that Name Based Recording (Event Based Recording) would be coming "soon" to the 721. It never happened. Now I find out that Echostar has scrapped plans to bring EBR to the 721.
> 
> Because of this, I will be looking at other programming providers. Voom, while they do not have a PVR currently does offer High Def channels that I actually want to watch, instead of the junk Echostar offers. They will be coming out with a PVR soon. Also, I could go back to DirecTV and use my Ultimate TV box, which served me FAR better than the 721 ever did, at a fraction of the price and it's a number of years old. Since I've been away from DTV for awhile, I'm sure they will be happy to have me as a customer, and will be willing to give me the "new customer" deal as well for DirecTivo's.
> 
> I may also consider my cable company, as they have PVRs as well.
> 
> It's very sad that Echostar has so little regard for their current customers that they would scrap the only idea that would make the 721 more than a glorified VCR. As it stands now, the 721 is the least desirable "PVR" on the market, and even putting the "PVR" title on it is a but specious, as it truely is nothing more than glorified VCR, as that it lacks EBR and has a really ridiculous timer setup set of menus.
> 
> Unless the decision is reversed to offer EBR on the 721, and reversed quickly, you will most certainly lose me as a customer. I'm tired of being treated like a red-headed stepchild by Echostar, and paying for that privilege. Echostar needs to get their act together and start offering competitive devices and treating their customers right. Echostar use to be the darling child of customer service. The gold standard as it were... now the customer service is about average with the industry and the devices are so far behind the technology curve that it's almost painful to watch how Echostar thrashes about in the marketplace, getting beaten up literally every other company offering a video recording and playback device.
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> 
> XXXXXXXXX


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## SimpleSimon

Anonymous said:


> There could very well be an I/O or CPU bandwidth issue with the other boxes. For NBR to work, the machine has to be able to search through listings on the HD without pausing any recording that is currently being recorded. I think the 522 uses a i386 or i486 equivalent CPU running at something like 50Mhz with an ATA66 IDE controller. The other boxes may be using slower CPUs and or ATA33 meaning they can just barely record a stream let alone record a stream and search through the listings file(s) on the HD at the same time. Since TiVo was always designed to have such features all of those boxes have always had more horsepower than regular Dish DVRs. The 522 may have been the first "overpowered" Dish DVR but just barely (that, in my opinion, is why there are A/V sync issues). They may have spec'ed out the 522's hardware from the beginning for features like NBR but they may have underestimated the amount of horsepower required for such a daemon running on the system and thus it has taken this long for them to write code that can execute in the background without affecting two different veiwers watching two different recorded events while two additional events are being recorded. And since many people never put their 522 in standby, they can't just program the search to execute when no one is watching. But then again, what do I know?


What you're saying is that the box can SEARCH the guide, displaying a list of results, but not search and remember? Sorry, that doesn't fly.

And your horsepower excuse certainly doesn't apply to the 721 or 921.


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## Bob Haller

E has a long history of failed promises. 721 internet service, 921 ports, 500 DVR expansion ports.just to name a few.

With the 721 it might be better they dont try that. The box has bug issues as is and the prcessor is busy enough without adding a whole new set of issues.

for anyone considering moving proviuders I would wait a BIT, VOOM is about to go belly up, and D has a bunch of new DVR boxes coming. E may have some news By the end of january a lot will be clearer.....


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## SAEMike

This is the first time Dish has lied to me, and likely, the last. My cable company will be happy to hear of Dish's monumental failure.


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## Bob Haller

Ahh in the OLD days E tried hard, now today its a dollars issue, the 721 is discontinued,and honestly I am SORRY I was right


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## kingbiged

Bob Haller said:


> E has a long history of failed promises. 721 internet service, 921 ports, 500 DVR expansion ports.just to name a few.
> 
> With the 721 it might be better they dont try that. The box has bug issues as is and the prcessor is busy enough without adding a whole new set of issues.
> 
> for anyone considering moving proviuders I would wait a BIT, VOOM is about to go belly up, and D has a bunch of new DVR boxes coming. E may have some news By the end of january a lot will be clearer.....


Bob,

Any luck with your 322 with the TIVO?


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## Bob Haller

kingbiged said:


> Bob,
> 
> Any luck with your 322 with the TIVO?


my buddy who has a SA extra Tivo cant locate it Lost in his messy house, with the holiday junk. But with friend dying of brain cancer and helping with inner city program for kids in projects so they get nice toys, geez life is too busy. Fell flat on my face a couple weeks ago carrying toys out of a church. Actually slammed jaw against my vans back bumper and hurt back bad... havent felt like doing much. back still sore, may have bruised rib, but its a lot better. I went down hard...

both me and jen are having rough time about our ill friend.. she has 5 kids ages 4 to 16 and is 40 herself...

Havent done any decorating....

Really depressed..... Did order a 522 to try it. I have a deal with my best friend he wants one for his family. So I will buy and activate, and he can come over and try it out. He is used to bugs he has a Dishplayer 7100 Its been gettiung more flakey lately I think the hard drive is failing looses guide.

I can be the test case for selling a owned 522 to a new owner

If we dont like it it can be transfered to his account and I am out no $$$. Did receive my 322s but havent even opened box.

basically I am bummed and dont care about much except getting those inner city kids their gifts. That happens today

We had tentative trip plans in january for Disney but shedule hassles have delayed that.

I MIGHT go to CES for a couple days, see the new stuff close up

Besides its business, I am working with a new laminator supplier and they are exhibiting. Lots of interesting stuff at CES, including all the new bocx models.

I will probably spend more time at the DBS area than the office machine one


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## Jacob S

I got my 522 today and when it downloaded the software it got the Name Based Recording software so it did arrive today on the 20th as advertised (unless my receiver was one of those on the list to get an early batch).


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## adv_dp_fan

I wish mine would get it. As of this morning it was still on 2.08. Guess that's what I get for having a fairly new 522, only 3-4 months old. I'll be near the end of the list of updates.


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## Jacob S

I got the dang software but I cannot get a hold of the person that told me to call them back and I emailed them again without a response back. Doesn't seem like I am getting such a quick response back now like I did the first time in which was an hour later. They must not give you much time to answer the phone.


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## Alodar

So...the 522. The website says "new lease customers only". Does that mean new subscribers or just those who are not currently leasing a receiver? I have been a long time subscriber, but own all my receivers, never leased, so technically I could get a 522...right?


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## chaddux

Alodar said:


> So...the 522. The website says "new lease customers only". Does that mean new subscribers or just those who are not currently leasing a receiver? I have been a long time subscriber, but own all my receivers, never leased, so technically I could get a 522...right?


Officially, no. It is for new customers only. Existing customers will be able to get it, unofficially rumored, in February. If you want one now, you should read this thread and be VERY careful.


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## Alodar

Thanks Chaddux. I did see somewhere where it was posted Feb. 5th, but could not remember the link. Their wording could be a bit better, as it does say new lease customers, not new subscribers, but I guess that's par for the course from what I've read about E*. Thanks for the link, but I don't need a 522 that badly, I can wait for that or whatever they have planned for next year. I've got some free legal services saved up, wonder if a letter from an attorney re: their wording and false advertising would get me a 522 ;-)


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## Chukee

SimpleSimon said:


> What you're saying is that the box can SEARCH the guide, displaying a list of results, but not search and remember? Sorry, that doesn't fly.
> 
> And your horsepower excuse certainly doesn't apply to the 721 or 921.


Ill have to agree with simplesimon on this one. We are only talking about the receiver carrying out a search basically. And any results put on the harddrive. And every once in a while a brief update.

and last I think I will wait for the next chat to hear it from the horses mouth if past reveivers will be getting this feature. We all were told the 522 will get the feature first. And then the older ones. I just hope charlie keeps his word at least this one time.


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## Anonymous

SimpleSimon said:


> What you're saying is that the box can SEARCH the guide, displaying a list of results, but not search and remember? Sorry, that doesn't fly.
> 
> And your horsepower excuse certainly doesn't apply to the 721 or 921.


I don't have any of those devices so I don't know, however, one question: when you search through the guide, does it continue to play back recorded video while it does so?

Also, there could be a design issue: Dish DVRs generally have two boot partitions (only one active at a time), a data partition, and a swap partition. What if the boot partitions are too small for the updated OS and there software design does not allow code to be executed off of the data drive. Maybe they can't dynamically resize the boot partitions and there for they haven't found a way to upgrade the DVRs remotely.


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## Jacob S

Yes.


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## Chukee

My 721 has no problem searching while playing back a show on the drive. No pauses or skips. Just tried it.


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## Anonymous

Chukee said:


> My 721 has no problem searching while playing back a show on the drive. No pauses or skips. Just tried it.


Maybe Dish is just a lazy ass company.


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## Bill R

Anonymous said:


> Maybe Dish is just a lazy ass company.


Are you just another one of those cable company employees that troll here?


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## Anonymous

Bill R said:


> Are you just another one of those cable company employees that troll here?


No. I was just saying how the 522 may be the only device that dish has that can effectively run NBR software. Every point I made I got replies to the effect that wasn't so. So finally, out of sarcasim, I posted the message you replied to. I still stand by the horsepower theory since my 522 hicups often when changing priorities and creating passes. May be because the schedule file gets a lot larger with NBR since it effectively makes an entry for every occurance rather than a single entry for a given time.


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## Bill R

Anonymous,

Apparently you have NO understanding of the hardware design of the DISH DVRs. ALL DISH DVRs _could_ support NBR but the TRUE reason that the older ones are not getting it is that DISH has decided NOT to devote the resources to make that happen. That is the information I got from a DISH insider and he also added that the decision (not to add NBR to older boxes) is NOT absolutely final.

And the reason the you see hicups on your 522 is because of software design bugs and DISH is working on that and other 522 problems.


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## danpedraza

Got it today and did a dish pass for godfather.


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## Jacob S

If they add the NBR that would show even further that they can do software upgrades through the satellite to improve the hardware even years later and it would also encourage many to keep their current hardware instead of upgrading with the Dish promotions saving Dish Network money.


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## jrb531

If NBR recording is not added to my 501 and 508 (same machine with diff sized HD) then they will be my last boxes from Dish.

After being "tricked" into getting the 811 with promises of more HD content only to be told that nothing in "dishes" eyes is compelling enough for me to watch, I have a very bitter taste in my mouth.

DTV with "real" PVR's is looking better and better. In a few months when my 811 1 year commit is up I'll be launching Dish into my own personal orbit.

Till then I'll keep sitting down at my HD and 811 and looking for some Dish HD content beforr switching over to Chicago OTA HD which is far superior to Dish.

Each time Dish tells me there is nothing available yet I watch many of the overcompressed SD channels (they look ok on smaller screens but horrible on big screens) and I pass all the shopping, educational, 10,000 music channels (yes I know music does not take that much bandwidth) as well as 7 million non-english stations I laugh to myself and then understand why Dish does not have room for more HD or better SD PQ.

Very soon, if not already, we will have come full circle with Cable having better PQ over Dish.

IMHO Dish has to decide who their customers will be. Do they want the masses who do not care about PQ or HD or do they want people who want a quality picture and good programming.

So far it seems Dish is dumping on the very people who jumped on board with them. Maybe this is the right thing to do $$$ wise but it sure stinks when I sit down and look at how poor the PQ has become on big screen TV's with all the compression with the never ending promises of "it will get better when XYZ satalite launches" while at the same time more and more locals launch.

-JB


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## puck

I don't post much. I'm an early adopter of most new technology. Was one of the first to jump on Tivo, XM, DVD, CD's etc. 

Anyway, the fact that my 510 will not be upgraded and I still subscribe to Tivo because timer recordings are a PITA, will seriously have me considering a switch to Directv. This is especially true if it comes out that they can do it but refuse to for whatever reason. 

After eight years, it was nice but technology waits for no one or no company.


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