# Editorial on Dish Network



## Guest

[THIS IS AN EDITORIAL - THE VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE DO NOT NECESSARLY EXPRESS THE FEELINGS OF ANYONE ELSE HERE ON DBSTALK.COM]

What has happened to ECHOSTAR in the past year?

Dish Network was one of the most customer friendly companies, everything Charlie did he did it for the consumers. Dish Even won 2 JD Powers awards for customer service. Dish was also very Internet board friendly and even went as far to have DBSforums owner John Hodgson on one of the Dish Network Tech Chats.

Over the past 12 months we have seen an open company turn into an evil corporate empire. The company that would bend over backwards for users was now telling them that if they did not like things there are other services to choose from.

Quality wise things went down hill for Dish too. The Picture quality went down hill most once they launched must carry. Dish is blaming the quality on must carry but Dish knew for over 2 years that must carry was coming. We don't hear complaints from DirecTV users about picture quality and they had to follow must carry too. DirecTV was able to meet must carry by launching a Spot beam satellite, Charlie could not get his satellite launched because no one wanted to insure him, it seems that Charlie likes suing everyone he does business with.

Equipment quality did no better then picture quality, it started last year when Dish released a software update for its Dishplayer without testing it first, many Web TV beta testers (myself included) reported these bugs but yet these reports were ignored and the software shipped anyways. After months of complaints and the threat of a class action lawsuit, Charlie announced there would be an "emergency" software release. It took almost 4 months to receive this "emergency" release. And oh yeah after that Dish sued Microsoft blaming them for all the Dishplayer problems.

Then Dish made an announcement that because of the Microsoft / Dishplayer problems that from now on the would be doing all hardware and software in house so that they have control of everything and this way everything will be perfect. Then came the Dish PVR 501. Out of the gate it did not have many of the features promised in the ads. In a earnings report Dish Network CEO Charlie Ergen made mention that they did release the product unfinished just so that they would have a PVR out there. Over months promised features began to pop up and so did the bugs. It seemed as though having Dish control everything to prevent bugs did not work out at all, even now Dish has been updating the 501 software every few weeks squishing bugs and accidentally introducing more.

Then Charlie surprised everyone with his successful bid for DirecTV. I think even Charlie was surprised in his win, at merger time it seemed he did not know what would happen next. Still to this time there is no clear cut idea of what will happen if the merger does happen. If Charlie does takeover DirecTV I am sure we will see many upset customers upset about having to switch out equipment, repoint dishes, and get used to new lineups.

Charlie has also decided as of recent months to play hard ball with programmers who provide service to Dish Network, they have dropped ESPN Classic and are in a nasty court fight to drop ABC Family. While Charlie is mad about price increases from ABC and his goal to "protect the consumer" the customer does not make out when a channel is dropped, customers have not seen any new channels to replace the ones dropped and have not seen a reduction in their monthly bills. In dropping these channels Echostar violated its own customer agreement, which states that consumers will be notified in writing in changes in programming. And of course after all this Charlie notifies us that he must raise our prices $1 a month.

All of these things add up to total customer frustration. And that frustration has been a bad thing. Over the past few months we have seen some of the most vocal Echostar supporters actually drop their Dish Network service in favor of DirecTV. It has been shocking to see the likes of DBSforums Dan Collins, John Buffington of Echostaruser.org, among others totally get rid of their Dish Network equipment and banish Dish products from their homes.

At the recent CES show in Las Vegas, Dish introduced its new PVR 508 system. The PVR 508 is exactly the same at the PVR 501 the major difference is that it has a larger hard drive. The retail price given for this single tuner PVR is $499. It should be noted that a Dual Tuner DirecTivo is selling for $79. Something does not seem right with this picture.

Why is Dish Network scaring away all its best customers? We know they are watching
us closely. (On my own homepage that gives info on the new MOXI unit Dish Network has visited the site almost 100 times. Yet I have not heard anything from them concerning my site.)

Why are all the cries for support going ignored? Email sent to Charlie's Echostar mailbox use to get replied to within 24 hours, now your lucky if you get a reply at all. Why are customers fleeing Dish Network like the plague? Why is Echostar out there watching all of this go on yet does not to put out the fire? Why is it that their actions only seem to throw more fuel on the fire?

These are all questions I cannot answer. But Echostar should take a good look at how its being run if it wants to have any success in getting approval for the merger. From where I sit today if Echostar does not clean up its act soon they won't have to worry about the merger they will have to worry about staying in business. It's a sad story, but we have seen it happen before, lets look at the Cable Internet service @HOME. Once @HOME (much like Echostar) was sitting on the top of the hill, and then things started going down hill, bad business decisions were made and customer complaints mounted. Now the king of broadband @HOME is going out of business. Dish should wake up now and learn from others mistakes, before it's too late for them.

Scott


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## Guest

Lets try not to believe that we represent a valid sampling of DBS users. I know many people with DBS that nothing of what you refer to above. I know of many people who have only recently SIGNED UP for DishNetwork and others who are very happy with the service.
Yes they do have problems, but they are easily fixed and hardly noticeable to the average subscriber.


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## Guest

I too am disappointed in Dish network. I signed up for their "I like 9" promotion a couple of months ago. I was told by Dish customer service (I called 800-333-dish) and the dealer I went thru that the 4900 was an eligible receiver for the I like 9 program - "as long as I paid $199 or higher" which I did. After getting the 4900 installed and activated, Dish called me back 3 or 4 weeks later and said it wasn't good for the promo after all and I was going to be billed regular rate instead of the $9. They said I should have gotten a 301 instead. I tried to do that but the dealer has gone bankrupt and closed their doors in the 3 or 4 weeks since my install. I called dish back and let them know this. Their response? "Sucks to be you. What's the big deal paying full price?" Well, I signed up thinking I was going to get a promotion. I offered to pay another $100 (for $299 total) to get the receiver swapped out for a 301. They said I would have to pay full price for it and I couldn't exchange the 4900. They also said I don't qualify for the "I like 9" promo because "I'm not a new sub anymore...I've had the service 3 weeks and I'm not new anymore". I asked them if there was anything else they could do and they said yes - to pay full price for a new receiver and service. I cancelled. I have told countless people about my experience with dish. I would never do business with them EVER!


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## Guest

I don't blame you ColorodoRob. That is lousy customer service. Did you sign up with DirecTV?


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## Guest

Scott the "customer friendly" aspect came from delivering a solid value to the consumer, providing an option to DTV, and putting their CEO right out there in the limelight for all to see. When I look back at what's changed over the past 31 months I've been a subscriber I would have to point first to a lack of value, then a lack of quality, and finally a lack of followthrough.....whether it be in addressing service problems or individual bug issues with the products themselves.

I don't think any of us would give them high marks for customer service even when they were winning awards. The fact is they were just better than DTV so more than likely won the award by default. Again had Primestar not been taken out of the loop I find it doubtful that E* would've won any JD Powers awards.

When we look at timeframes involved in the downturn of the company I find myself looking back much further than 12 months. Customer service was already bad and had to be addressed by Charlie on numerous occasions, receivers had problems that were addressed by Charlie on numerous occasions, etc. Over the past year I suppose that people could point to PQ but even then were you to look at Google results of alt.dbs.e* from almost three years ago PQ was already an issue.

I do agree with you that telling people to look elsewhere if they don't like the current offerings is probably not the best approach. Matter of fact I tend to think that it will put people off and certainly be a cause of concern over the proposed merger. At one time it may have been an appropriate statement as DTV and E* were putting forth different offerings. Now though it does come across much more "high handed" rather than being based upon providing value as they tried to do in the past.

What really bothers me Scott is Charlie's way of doing business and the "spin" that we all receive. He used to make scathing remarks about how DTV would pass on the cost of packages like NFLST on to the rest of the subscribers. Now we are seeing the same thing imposed upon us due to locals. We are also seeing channel losses without compensation and instead of compensation we see rate hikes even though the company FINALLY started turning profits. 

With Charlie it's always about the blame game and you hit the nail on the head when you brought up the locals issue including the degradation of PQ that came along with it.... though there were obviously problems prior to their addition.

They had the deadline well in advance and simply didn't rise to the occasion as well as DTV. Now they want to blame everyone but themselves.

And that is really a Charlie state of mind isn't it? He'll blame the govt., he'll blame competitors, he'll blame engineers, he blames everyone. A good CEO has broad shoulders and accepts responsibility. He doesn't. He needs to figure out that when all is said and done that the vast majority of people don't care about the "whys", the "hows" but do care very much that when they invest so much money up front and monthly that they receive the quality and value they were told they would receive. His damned job is to ensure that happens and THAT is what he needs to focus on.

As for the DP.....I'm not sure how long you've been a Beta tester but you know I've had access to the program. The problem with WebTV ignoring their beta testers has been an issue for longer the DP has been in existence and has been a problem with the DP specifically for much longer than just the past 12 months. There were bugs at launch and those bugs worsened with the PTV Service upgrade at the end of 99.....they've simply gotten worse every time lol

I agree that they didn't listen to their previewers last year, that they released a build that they shouldn't have, and that the "emergency" bug fix was a joke. All I am saying is that there are several previewers I know personally that could illustrate in great detail that the problems with the DP and the previewer program existed long before last year.

Regardless of the minor viewpoint differences I agree with you entirely. This all boils down to putting we the subscribers in the back seat and not caring in the least whether we enjoy the ride. E* has moved away from the fundamental business practices that got them to where they are today. It is starting to show in the number of new subscribers added and it is likely showing in churn rates. I think it time for Charlie to step up, shoulder the burden of blame, and as a true leader resolve to fix the problems facing both the company and the subscribers. Until we are put back into our rightful place as the most important people in this equation, until the blame game stops, we will not see any improvements. J


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## Guest

Intresting perspective....Scott and logandraven.

I kinda agree with IH8Cable thoughts.


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## Guest

Hi John. I agree with him too. I don't for an instant believe that what is discussed here, or in any dbs forum, is necessarily reflective of what the mass communities views are.

At the same time I do think it important to point out that a lot of people have no basis to compare when sharing their viewpoints. For example....If you take someone who lives in the boonies and has been served either by antenna or by some local yokel cable company and that someone decides to go with dbs then odds are they will like everything they see and not be dissatisfied in any way.

I've seen the same thing with devices. There are plenty of people out there who claim to never have had issues with the DP on the Web side or tv side. If they've never used another internet capable device then exactly what is it that they are basing their opinions on?

Many of us here, myself included, have been long time dbs subscribers. I was a Primestar subscribers for YEARS and have now been a Dish Network subscriber for 31 months and at times was even a cable subscriber with various companies. I also have several family members who subscribe to DTV so have gotten to use their services at length.

What that boils down to is being able to compare various services and receivers due to having used all of them. It also provides for the ability to have witnessed the improvements or downturns in the quality of service provided by those companies due to long term usage.

Certainly my views, or those by others with similar experiences, may not be shared by the vast majority or new subscribers. At the same time it doesn't make our views any less truthful  J


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## Guest

Hi,

I cancelled my Dish Network AT150 yesterday due to a run in with a CSR. The short story is that I wanted to remove my credit card from autopay on my Mom's account. The CSR refused. It's funny that no one refused to accept the credit card from me (not my Mom). Anyway, after fighting with my Dishplayer with every upgrade, etc. I decided to end my AT150 sub. 

When I got home from work last night I still had the service. I tried to call today and was put on infinite hold. 

Anyway, my opinion really is negative after 1 1/2 years. I've noticed a steady decline in CSR service and knowledge. I was ignored or patronized with the Dishplayer issue. Also, I'm not too happy with the AT100 lineup vs Direct TV TC. Now, of course there is the deal with locals, TC and Family Pack. Not sure if I'll take the plunge until the FCC rules on the merger.

Any thoughts about taking the DTV risk now?


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## Guest

If Echostar and Hughes merge together, then you'll see everything going down hill except the price; that will go up and be roughly the same as cable. With only two competitors out there, the prices will just keep going up and up.

Look at what happen initially with cell phone service when the FCC granted just two liceneses. There were only two ompanies and the prices were outrages compared to other coutries. Now with more companies in the game, the prices are coming down. Write your congressman expressing your opposition to the merger.
If it don't go through you'll see a big improvement in PQ and CS.


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## Guest

My recommendation for you is to go ahead and subscribe to DirecTV. I even suggest you going for a DirecTivo. An Ultimate TV would probably bring back bad memories, since its just a souped up DishPlayer. You might wait till February 1st when the new Total Choice Plus packages comes into effect. It will include the Family Pack. 

You are wondering about the merger, right? Well, IMHO, the merger wont get approved. Even if it does get approved, its gonna be years before even a free swap of receivers comes into effect. I think it will be 2005 or 2006 before you will even be swapping your receiver for a similar receiver. So, go ahead and take the DirecTV plunge. You will not regret it at all. Also....think of it this way: No more Charlie Chats to watch. That alone is worth getting a DirecTV, IMHO.


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## Guest

I believe those folks with gripes scream the loudest. I agree with some of your points, but the honest truth is that the percentage of people that don't have any problems is in the high 90's. If my grandmother, great aunt and mother-in-law(all elderly)can use the service 99.9% of the time without complaint, maybe some of us are either too picky or we tweak the stuff too much. Regardless, anyone who reads these forums should take what you see with a grain of salt (or maybe a shaker full).


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## Guest

"My recommendation for you is to go ahead and subscribe to DirecTV. I even suggest you going for a DirecTivo. An Ultimate TV would probably bring back bad memories, since its just a souped up DishPlayer."

Huh??!! UltimateTV is an incredible device. Just because it backed by Microsoft (a company not in finaincial trouble) doesn't make it an evil piece of equipment. They were the first with the dual tuners. If anything, DirecTivo was a souped up Dish 501 since both had only single tuners for a long time. Who wants to watch what they are recording? The dual tuners feature was the main selling point to me for UltimateTV. If DirecTivo had had the dual tuner option first, I'd have bought their equipment. UltimateTV will be the first with remote recording as well, but that isn't the topic of the discussion. 

I went from a Dish 501 to DirecTV with UltimateTV service. I can't even compare the two. The picture quality with DirecTV has been better than Dish, and I have had few complaints with the customer service, but a year ago Dish had OK customer service as well. I am hopeful for those of us with DirecTivo or UltimateTV that Dish will use DirecTV's equipment after the possible merge that is manufactured by reputible third parties rather than the proprietary equipment they are using now.


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## Guest

Neilster wrote:
"I agree with some of your points, but the honest truth is that the percentage of people that don't have any problems is in the high 90's."

I realize that you are generalizing but even so given the performance of the DishPlayer and the 501 units I find your percentage to be grossly high.

"If my grandmother, great aunt and mother-in-law(all elderly)can use the service 99.9% of the time without complaint, maybe some of us are either too picky or we tweak the stuff too much."

I've never made a single modification to any of my units be they Primestar, the Dish Network equipment or cable equipment. Then again a lot of this goes back to what I was saying about having a basis of comparison.

If your grandmother, great aunt and mother-in-law never subscribed to Primestar then they probably wouldn't notice the rather lengthy lag time that is ever present when using the DishPlayer to change channels. If those same women have never subscribed to DTV then they probably wouldn't notice that the lag time in scrolling through the EPG using the DP is much worse.

If people have no basis of comparison then I suppose that power-offs, pink screens of death, missed recordings, 1 minute recording etc etc etc would probably appear to be a reliably working unit. To those of us who DO have the experience with various services then we can point out the flaws, the bugs, and the downright shoddy coding that causes the vast majority of the problems with these products.

It's also a matter of perspective. I've seen DishPlayer owners who subscribe to the WebTV with the unit claim it to be faster than their pcs. LOL So what that the pc they are using is ancient and bogged down by an overbloated operating system it is their perspective that matters. That being said my Dreamcast, an OEM unit from Uniview, the NIC from ThinkNIC/Oracle, my old WebTV Plus unit, my old WebTV Classic, and my PIII 866 MHz Dell pc all kick the dog hell out of the DP when it comes to surfing speeds and all connected to the very same phone lines.

All I'm saying, and I think all a selective few who do have the backgrounds with various services and products are saying, is that broad generalizations of what the rest of the community feel about the service and the performance of their hardware could absolutely be a direct result of their LACK of experience with similar services and products with which to base a worthy opinion in the first place. J


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## Guest

I have came close to cancelling because of a REALLY BAD CSR mistake that ook 7 calls to fix the problem. Its sad the company has so many problems. The CSR pay at the pittsburgh call center is very low, and they have a bad curn problem. This only make customer service worse....


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## Guest

As I posted on AVS, Im looking at taking the D* plunge, but the final desision is upto my mom, but if we lose the supers that will push things even farther. The new TC+ Package is an excelent value even with no TMC and Encores.


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## Guest

I would suggest taking plunge only if you want DirecTiVo and have locals available. Since 40% of the country has no locals available for those, its not worth paying $10/monthly and not being able to PVR network programming. Yeah, there are few channels DirecTV has that Dish doesnt. But when you already have say 100 channels, you may not get time to watch all channels that much.


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## Guest

"I realize that you are generalizing but even so given the performance of the DishPlayer and the 501 units I find your percentage to be grossly high."

I was generalizing. However, I would be interested to see exactly how many DP's are out there.. I dare say that number is pretty low comparatively. As to the performance of the 501 - I myself have never had a problem. Some folks are pissed off because it doesn't do what they want it to, or because it isn't a Tivo - Currently, it does everything that it is supposed to do. Future enhancements are just that - future enhancements, not guaranteed functionality. For instance, I miss callerID - I had it on my 5000 and loved it. I knew that E* was thinking about it for a future release, but I also knew that it wasn't there then, and I still bought it with that knowledge. Tomorrow is not a guarantee, so enhancements will come when they come. I know that some people's 501's have legitimate trouble, and that's unfortunate, but with anything electronic that will happen.

I got a little off subject. I wonder if anyone has an accurate guess on the number of 1000's or 3800's out there - those units are absolutely rock-solid IMO. I still think that their customer sat record is in the nineties somewhere given the number of subscribers.


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## Guest

as a former employee of Crap Network, I said the same kind of things (here on this board - and got slammed for it) Scott said , but that they all took place INSIDE the company. Just think....if Dish treats paying customers this way, how do you think they treat there own employees that should just be happy they even have a job (even though most of them aren't qualified to work there in the first place)?


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## Guest

Hi Neilster. When you are talking about older units I have to agree with you entirely. Whether it be DTV, E*, or Primestar units, all of the older receivers performed to a level that is demanded out of most consumer electronics.

The shift in performance has come over the past couple of years. The DP has performed poorly, TiVos have had their problems, and UTV units have had problems as well. Unlike a few people I don't expect that these products should have problems....matter of fact I think that they should NOT. The reliability seen in older units helped both E* and DTV achieve success. Units like the DP have at the very least tarnished their image and even caused people to cancel their subscriptions.

As for the number of units out there you might try contacting M. Lumpkin although I doubt he'll actually release the numbers. That being said the DP was well ahead of both TiVo and ReplayTV until last year at which point TiVo at least surpassed sales of the DP. It would be interesting to know how many people have opted to choose reliable older units over the newer buggy units. J


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## Guest

I just got a home theater magazine at home which talks about PVRS and Mark Lumpkin was quoted as saying that over 150,000 Dishplayers were sold.

I am not home so I cant tell you the title, but will loook when I get home.

Scott


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## Guest

Ok I am home now and I looked the info up. 

This comes from page 24 of the March 2002 edition of Audio Video Interiors Magazine.

I was wrong in my quote above, so I will let Mr Lumpkin from Dish Network correct me

(and I quote)
"We sold 250,000 of our first combi unit, the Dish Player 500"

wow thats QUARTER MILLION Possible UNHAPPY Dish Network Customers!

Scott


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## Guest

"wow thats QUARTER MILLION Possible UNHAPPY Dish Network Customers!"

That's roughly 4.2% of all Dish customers, taking E*'s word at their subscriber base, as well as assuming that they are all pissed off. That just can't be true. My point was simply that those subs represented in this and other forums just like it are a miniscule percentage of total subscribers, and to assume that those of us who either own "advanced" recievers or make a hobby out of keeping up with the technology represent the whole is narcissistic.


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## Guest

Maybe Ergen is getting a little too smug because he believes the merger can't miss. He better hope so, because if it falls through, there will be a ton of people going over to DTV. I am not going to forget his attitude about dropping ESPN Classics and then raising prices to pay for everyone else's locals except for people like me. He knocks off one channel, and it happens to be one that I really liked. He is now hedging on YES, even though the cost could probably be absorbed by the multi-sports package price, and not even affect many of the other customers. 

This guy is a jerk, a rich jerk though because despite all his whining about saving dollars for his customers, his personal income has gone through the roof. His profits come first, the company's debt second. 

I hope this merger flops. I am not a big Rupert fan, but this phony Ergen can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care. When the time is right, I will be a DTV subscriber. If the merger somehow sneaks through, I will go back to the crummy cable company I used to have years ago. At least they have ESPN Classic Sports, ABC Family, and sports packages. 

By the way, most of the comments I read in this thread were excellent. keep up the good work on this forum.


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## Guest

That's an interesting number. As I recall there were several claims to 180,000 that were made in a variety of online publications towards the end of 2000(Nov).

That following January TiVo released its quarterly report and claimed over 200,000. If I also recall correctly there was some talk about the lines being shut down for the DP.... not uncommon at all but considering that it was a well known fact that no more units were going to be produced I'd like to know how Lumpkin came up with 250 k.

Are they counting twice those units that were returned, refurbished and then sold again? Are the simply attempting to overstate their market share to place themselves in the same level with TiVo or ReplayTV?

Admittedly the DP line never received the press that ReplayTV or TiVo received and it should have. Still I have serious doubts about his numbers and know that I'm not alone on that. J


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## Guest

Maybe Lumpkin used a Random Number Generator to come up with the numbers.


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## Guest

LOL Thanks Brian...I suppose that's a bit better than the dartboard theory I was considering  J


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## Guest

I purchased the christmas promo in December with the "i like 9" programming for my parents in Hawaii.I am a current dish customer with 2 receivers in my own home. I asked the local dealer to put the monthly charge of $9 on my account (it's a gift, duh) I went to visit in February and the time was wrong. I called tech support to correct the time and found out that i was "stacking"! What the heck was that? Come to find out that when they set up the account, they put the reciever on as a third receiver. They asked me if i wanted to set up a new account for my parents, and i said no. Hung up. An hour later, no programming, called back the 800# and was told that security stopped service. For what? "stacking" I'm not an employee, i don't know what that means. I wanted to speak with a supervisor. Michele told me that i was unethical!!!!! Me, a customer! For what? "Stacking" They threw that word around like a ball. She told me that the only way to fix it would to be to open up an account for my parents. Okay, open up the account, but make sure that they pay only $9 for the programming. Sorry she says, promo is over and that they would have to pay $31.99! No, i said, i purchased the gift promo in december with the i like 9. She said that she couldn't do it. I told her I wanted to speak with her manager. I was put through to Glenn Harvey, he said he's the General Manager. I explained to him the situation and that his employee called me unethical, and he said no she didn't. I told him he needed to rewind that tape, because she was way out of line for calling a customer unethical. He told me that I was unethical because i have three receivers with 2 different promos. I can't call in and set up an account that way. I told him that an authorized dish dealer, one that was given to me through the 800# set up the account, not me. He told me that he didn't have anything else to say to me.
I've talked to this person and that person, and have decided to cancel service and to reduce my programming and ride out the next few months with dish.
This is such a shame that a company would ALLOW their employees to speak with paying customers the way that they spoke to me. Calling me unethical! I am appalled. I know that word of mouth means alot to many people, and this mouth has alot to say.
Up until this point, i was happy with service, no complaints. Boy, they screwed this one up big time.


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## Guest

My two cents worth...

1. IIRC, Dish Network came in second or third for JD Powers and Associates this year, losing to Adelphia Cable. 

2. Everyone likes to dump on E* for not getting their spot beam satellite launched before the December 31st deadline and using the second dish option. Lets just forget the fact that DirecTV almost didn't get their spot beam satellite up in time as well. The events of September 11th didn't help matters in getting satellites launched either. Both providers have challanged the must-carry law in court.

3. As for $79 DirecTivo verses the 501, the DirecTivo requires you to commit to a certain programming package for a certain length AND pay either a $10 monthly fee or a lifetime subscription of $249, plus you still have to have a phone line hooked up anyways. (Sorry, I'm not sure if it applies only to new customers or current customers). For current customers, the 501 is available for $319 from allsat.com (a satellite dealer I picked randomly) with no commitment, or $199 from Dish Network with a one year commitment to AT150 and CC autopay.


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## Guest

I've been a Dish customer for several years and the only problem I've had is when I upgraded to the dish 500. The local installer made a such a sloppy, unprofessional installation that I complained. The CSR told me that this was just an upgrade installation and not meant to be a full install (whatever that meant). I explained that I was complaining about his work and she didn't seem to understand. I considered switching to DTV at that point, but didn't because I had no other complaints. My signal is good and all my other contacts with Dish have been pleasant and professional.


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## Guest

I for one am very satisfied with dish. Sure I have had equipment problems, but not to the level that some describe. As far as the rate increase goes, look it at this way: our cable company rose the price of digital cable $10/ month in January, because they added 10 channels. As far as the loss of a channel goes I give him credit for standing up to the programmers rate increases. have never had a CSR problem in 6 years, I always get treated with respect,and always got a answer. I think that once everything is hammered out we will be using better quality equipment. I just don't understand why people are so negtive (espcially at DBS Forums)


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## curmudgeon99

Of course, when they want to sign you up for their service, they are kind. But after you are a customer, there are a myriad of fees designed to keep you locked in. Never mind the $240 cancellation fee, or the $5.00 fee to make any changes per change. It is the way they bill you a month and a half in advance and so if you made a change in September it does not start to affect your bill until December! They are also very rude on the phone. If you ask for the Supervisor, that person is invariable the rudest of all. Amazing! They act like you are privileged having their service. I would NEVER take their service again and as soon as my year is up, I'm gone for life. They offered me a special three month deal on some premium channels. And to avoid being charged extra for them, I had to cancel on the EXACT day the special expired. I tried to cancel a few days early and so they levied a HUGE penalty that basically voided the entire three month special. If they were trying to offend me as a customer for life, they could not have not a better job. 
Finally, the people on the phone are just the rudest, most unhelpful staff I have ever encountered. It's like they treat you as an enemy. Amazing. Everything about DISH Network is designed to screw the customer. Go to their website and of course the phone contact is well hidden. Their website allows you only to ADD service, not subtract. If you're asking them a question, they put you on hold for the longest time possible, hoping you'll drop off and they can cancel the changes. That happened to me three times until I just endured hold for 20 minutes. The person came back on the line and was surprised I was still there. Finally, she reluctantly admitted that she had cancelled the service. It is just the crappiest, most obnoxious service I have ever experienced. DON'T SIGN UP WHAT EVER YOU DO!!! They are a disaster both in the programming and the service! Avoid them. Anything is better. I hate cable but this is really, really worse. I'd rather put a poster over my tv than accept Dish Network. Damn, I wish I had seen this website before I bought into them.


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## alfbinet

I have been a customer for going on 5 years this Feb. CSR's have been nothing but helpful. My local installer is the greatest. I have a 6000 and a 4900 upstairs and can count on one hand the problems I have had with either. Sorry your experience hasn't been as great. I guess I am one of those people in the 90's that are satisfied with DISH.


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## FTA Michael

Wow, some folks sure get emotionally attached to E*, one way or another. Y'all need to remember -- E* is just a business, like Ford and Burger King and Safeway. It has a duty to generate profits for its shareholders.

Folks are upset over the new DVRs, but I think E* is doing a skillful balancing act. Keep in mind E*'s top priority -- Lure new customers by giving away a free DVR. Not only will E* get monthly DVR fees, but it has a stronger equipment hook to keep the sub around for everything else. Setting high suggested retail prices only makes the new sub deal sound better, plus E* can make "deals" knocking down the price for existing subs with a long-term contract.

About CSRs, they can be hard to train, and there's a lot of churn. In my experience, most CSRs are as nice as you are when you call. If you're one of those folks who think you get better results by hollaring at them, you're probably one of those people who finds the grumpy ones.

Anyway, I don't think E* loves me or considers its subs' feelings when it makes programming choices. It makes money, and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as E* gives me what I want for the best price, I'm happy with our business relationship. What more do you want?


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## pjmrt

I have to say most of the Dish CSRs are at least polite and do try. There are exceptions and I've encountered them too.

The sad, sad thing is many US businesses are behaving this way. 721 and 501 buggy you say??? So is my video editing software (Pinnacle). Customer service at rock bottom, I've encountered that at CompUSA. 

I have a theory, lets see what hornet's nest this stirs. Most American business treat their employes (explicitly or unintentionally) as slaves "you should be happy you have a job" type attitude. This works wonder for employee attitude, so ultimately the whole mess continues to degrade. Resolution comes when someone new arrives on the scene with a different mindset toward employees and hence toward their customers.

In any regard, I think dish's poor attention to current customers is a symptom of a greater malady effecting much of business.


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## Jacob S

Dish got too big for itself and when you lose one customer out of over 9 million they do not care nearly as much as if it were one customer out of 3 or 5 million. The bigger they get the less important each customer is going to be.


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## Neil Derryberry

Wow, this is an old thread... I am the Neilster that a couple of the posts referred to. This thread was authored by Scott G. just after we moved from the EZBoard.

I will say that I still stand behind what I said then. Those of us here are in the minority even more so now than then.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Wow yes this thread is REALLY old!


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## Mike123abc

There really needs to be a way for threads with no posts for 6 months to autolock. I the thread starter wants to post an update or something they should be able to pm a moderator to unlock.


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## lee635

carload said:


> In my experience, most CSRs are as nice as you are when you call. If you're one of those folks who think you get better results by hollaring at them, you're probably one of those people who finds the grumpy ones.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Amen brother.....


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## Pete K.

Ok...I'll bite. Why is this really, really old thread being resurrected?


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## HarryD

Boredoom??


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## Guest

I love to read this "forum" from time to time, it's obvious the so called "experts" that run it, haven't the faintest clue about how to run a successful company.

Echostar has been, and continues to be one of the most successfully run companies in the nation. No fluke there, they've earned it! 

There are other choices and if you're so unhappy, switch.

I've been a customer since 1998, we have a 921 and 501 receivers at our house, and are getting ready to order a 921 for the new HD set.

Most importantly, as a shareholder, the value of our stock has risen at rates far exceeding other stocks and investments we have.

Charlie is the only CEO I'm aware of who gets on live TV, takes calls and looks you in the eye when he says something.

So he plays tough with programmers? If he rolled at every rate request, we'd be paying several hundred dollars a month for programming. And I can imagine the whining if that happened.

You might not like what he has to say, but he says it.

Is there an "Eddie" chat? A "Comcast Chat?"

Wall Street loves the company, and apparently so do 9-million households.

Echostar will be around for many years, and many more million households will sign up for the service.

They have the option of switching to DirecTV or cable if they don't like the prices, programming or services.

EVERYTIME I've contacted the company by phone or e-mail, I've received a prompt response.

I'll stick with DISH.


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## Mike Richardson

There is some kind of Time Warner Chat in San Antonio. They post the videos online, they're interesting. Interestingly enough I don't remember too much dish bashing.


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## alfbinet

HarryD said:


> Boredoom??


Amen brother...!


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## Guest

> Hi,
> 
> I cancelled my Dish Network AT150 yesterday due to a run in with a CSR. The short story is that I wanted to remove my credit card from autopay on my Mom's account. The CSR refused. It's funny that no one refused to accept the credit card from me (not my Mom). Anyway, after fighting with my Dishplayer with every upgrade, etc. I decided to end my AT150 sub.
> 
> When I got home from work last night I still had the service. I tried to call today and was put on infinite hold.
> 
> Anyway, my opinion really is negative after 1 1/2 years. I've noticed a steady decline in CSR service and knowledge. I was ignored or patronized with the Dishplayer issue. Also, I'm not too happy with the AT100 lineup vs Direct TV TC. Now, of course there is the deal with locals, TC and Family Pack. Not sure if I'll take the plunge until the FCC rules on the merger.
> 
> Any thoughts about taking the DTV risk now?


CSR's name if possible please.


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## Neil Derryberry

The original post you are replying to was made on January 15, 2002... I don't think we can even track who made the original post. Thank you for your concern, though... I would love to talk to you about that. Please send me an email at [email protected]


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## Fat Tony

pjmrt said:


> I have to say most of the Dish CSRs are at least polite and do try. There are exceptions and I've encountered them too.
> 
> The sad, sad thing is many US businesses are behaving this way. 721 and 501 buggy you say??? So is my video editing software (Pinnacle). Customer service at rock bottom, I've encountered that at CompUSA.
> 
> I have a theory, lets see what hornet's nest this stirs. Most American business treat their employes (explicitly or unintentionally) as slaves "you should be happy you have a job" type attitude. This works wonder for employee attitude, so ultimately the whole mess continues to degrade. Resolution comes when someone new arrives on the scene with a different mindset toward employees and hence toward their customers.
> 
> In any regard, I think dish's poor attention to current customers is a symptom of a greater malady effecting much of business.


Just like you have the really nice people when you deal face to face, you also have the people who put your eggs under your canned goods and those who spit on your burger. Lets hope for all of us that they go away quickly.


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## Cheyenne

As a ex-employee of Echostar, I think they will ultimately fail.
The work enviroment was the most hostile I have experienced in my 20+ year career. Dish Network is currently being managed like a cable company, only wireless.


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## AndyMon

Cheyenne said:


> As a ex-employee of Echostar, I think they will ultimately fail.
> The work enviroment was the most hostile I have experienced in my 20+ year career. Dish Network is currently being managed like a cable company, only wireless.


Interesting. Would you care to expound on your statement? Examples? It would be nice to see where you're coming from.


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## Nick

I'm in favor of "Autolocking" these ancient threads. 
Who wants to wade through old, anonymous rants
ostensibly started by cowardly anti-Dish trolls who 
contribute nothing and feed on each other? 

Not me.


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## greggg

I for one have had very good service from Dish for years. I have not had one equipment failure and I have three receivers and a PVR. The one complaint I do have is my local channels. They can get pixelated. When I complained they said all will be well when they launch a new satellite, but they can't say when that will be. I don't watch much network stuff but it can be bad come Sunday when I put football on.


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## isoboi

As a former employee in the call center in McKeesport, PA, they were one of the better places I've ever worked at. Sometimes I wish I had stayed, believe it or not. One fault I do see with the call centers is that the employee deal for getting Dish Network is worse than Free Dish, nor does Charlie offer any free programming to their employees. Thus, most of the employees don't actually have Dish Network at home. So in effect, most of the people you're taking to there don't use the product they're supporting. :bang:


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## Bob Haller

Dish should give vFREE service to every custoer contact employee. It would help the workers better understand the callers.


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## LonghornXP

"3. As for $79 DirecTivo verses the 501, the DirecTivo requires you to commit to a certain programming package for a certain length AND pay either a $10 monthly fee or a lifetime subscription of $249, plus you still have to have a phone line hooked up anyways. (Sorry, I'm not sure if it applies only to new customers or current customers). For current customers, the 501 is available for $319 from allsat.com (a satellite dealer I picked randomly) with no commitment, or $199 from Dish Network with a one year commitment to AT150 and CC autopay."

Just to correct you on this quote that yes you do have to commit to one year of any total choice programming package but the rest you are very wrong on.

First off the cheapest Dish Player DVR price you can get is 200 bucks without a commitment or free with a commitment. Now their DVR service fee is 5 bucks per month per box which could be raised to 10 bucks per month per box.

Now what you are wrong about is that a DirecTivo costs as an existing customer 100 bucks with a 1 year committment or for around 50 bucks as a new customer also with a 1 year committment. But the service fee is not 10+ bucks per month and you don't have to get a lifetime subscription because they don't even offer this. The service fee is 5 bucks per month for all the DirecTV DVRs on the account (not per box). Or if you get Total Choice Premier that fee is waived. I'm not sure if Dish waives their 5 buck fee with a certain level package so if they do please correct me. Now for that extra 100 bucks you are spending to not get that commitment you can get the DirecTivo assuming you don't get total choice premier for 5 bucks times 12 months and you would still have 40 bucks left for say other programming such as a PPV movie every other month while still getting the same features as Dish.


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## Mark Holtz

The DVR free is waived on both America's Top Everything and Total Choice Premiere.

The monthly fee of a DirecTiVo is $5, and covers _all_ of the DirecTiVo receivers in the house. There is no lifetime fee. The fee used to be $10 per month, or $249 lifetime.

The TiVo Standalone has a $10+ monthly fee or a Lifetime of the unit fee.


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