# EchoStar announces that Lifetime has severed talks



## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=806850&highlight=

Lifetime Television Severs Efforts to Restore Lifetime Channel to DISH Network; Lifetime's Unreasonable Rate Demands Would Result in Unreasonable Price Increases for DISH Network Customers

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 22, 2006--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) and its DISH Network satellite service announced today that Lifetime Television has severed talks with DISH Network and has refused to continue negotiations for a fair agreement for carriage of Lifetime Channel.

"We have been unable to reach an agreement, even though we offered a number of options which were ultimately rejected by Lifetime," said Michael Neuman, president of EchoStar. "We recently launched the popular women's channel Oxygen, the only television network owned and operated by women and made for women, as a replacement for Lifetime Movie Network and now Lifetime has made it clear that further talks will not result in fair rates for our customers. DISH Network will permanently replace the Lifetime Channel by month end, and we are in meaningful discussions now with a number of interesting programmers for a compelling replacement to Lifetime."

DISH Network's contract with Lifetime expired Dec. 31, 2005. Consequently, DISH Network was legally prohibited from broadcasting Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network. Lifetime demanded an exorbitant price increase of 76 percent under the contract term.

"It's unfortunate that Lifetime Television chooses to pressure DISH Network with politics rather than negotiating for fair economics, but their financial demands remain unacceptable as they would lead to unreasonable rate increases for our customers," said Neuman. "DISH Network continues to challenge Lifetime Television to disclose the actual numbers behind its outrageous rate demand so the public can judge for themselves, but Lifetime has refused. Instead, it has accused discrimination and resorted to political theater in an attempt to obscure the real issue -- cost of service."

DISH Network reached reasonable agreements with dozens of other programmers for 319 channels in 2005. Only Lifetime refused to negotiate a fair agreement for DISH Network customers.

DISH Network is pleased to offer Oxygen, Women's Entertainment, Encore Love, HGTV, Food Network, Style TV, E! Entertainment, SoapNet, ABC Family, Travel Channel, Wisdom (Lime), and dozens of other channels that feature information, news, sports and entertainment for and about women. DISH Network will continue to look for an equally appropriate replacement for Lifetime Channel.

In the meantime, DISH Network is offering its customers a free preview of Women's Entertainment Network (WE), Oxygen and Encore Love, all channels that provide similar content formerly found on Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network.

DISH Network also continues to make available broadcast time for any groups formerly providing important information through Lifetime, and DISH Network has already received positive requests from women's groups for carriage of their announcements.

About EchoStar

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) serves more than 12 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service. Visit EchoStar's DISH Network at www.dishnetwork.com or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474).

CONTACT: EchoStar Communications Corporation
Marc Lumpkin, 303-723-2010
[email protected]

SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I kinda saw this coming once the LifeTime commercials started that said "Switch to DirecTV or Cable". 

Oh well, I hope they like their sour grapes as they are taking their ball home to play.


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## angiecopus (May 18, 2004)

yep i also knew lifetime will never return to dish network, I wonder what will be a good replacement.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

From Lifetime TV:

*Lifetime rejects unfair "Take It or Leave It" offer from Dish*


> Thank you for your letters, calls and e-mails in support of Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network. We heard from you loud and clear how upset you are that DISH Network yanked the #1 and #2 most popular women's networks off the air without warning on New Year's Eve.
> 
> In the weeks since DISH took this drastic and unnecessary action, we have been working round-the-clock to help get your voices heard and to try to get DISH to return your favorite networks to the air. Unfortunately, throughout, DISH falsely and repeatedly asserted that Lifetime sought a 76% increase in our fees when in fact, we had only asked for a modest increase of a few pennies per month in our fees for the two networks combined. What's worse, and what DISH never said, is that they sought to impose huge cuts to carry these Lifetime networks that would have crippled our ability to offer you the quality entertainment and impassioned, impactful advocacy on behalf of women that you have come to expect from us.


FULL ARTICLE HERE


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## jessshaun (Sep 14, 2005)

No offence, but goodbye and good riddance. Couldn't stand the channel.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

It si looking more and more like it is permanent.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I found ithis nteresting: *"DISH Network will permanently replace the Lifetime Channel by month end, and we are in meaningful discussions now with a number of interesting programmers for a compelling replacement to Lifetime."*

I wonder if it will be another new channel or if some AT120 or AT180 channel will drop to AT60.

See ya
Tony


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

Mark Holtz said:


> From Lifetime TV:
> 
> What's worse, and what DISH never said, is that they sought to impose huge cuts to carry these Lifetime networks that would have crippled our ability to offer you the quality entertainment and impassioned, impactful advocacy on behalf of women that you have come to expect from us.


I'm a little dense, could someone please explain how losing the entire Dish revenue stream is better than the 2005 income from Dish? Wouldn't that "cripple" Lifetime even more?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

They keep on saying "a few pennies a month". I want to know how many pennies EXACTLY and for how long before another few pennies. And are those few pennies counting an additional channel for an order of magniture above and beyond the few pennies.

I will not believe a word the Lifetime executives say until they reveal the details. Dish released them from the confidenciality agreement and are free to talk about it. They havent and just keep repeating the same "few pennies" line.

See ya
Tony


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

TNGTony said:


> They keep on saying "a few pennies a month". I want to know how many pennies EXACTLY and for how long before another few pennies. And are those few pennies counting an additional channel for an order of magniture above and beyond the few pennies.
> 
> I will not believe a word the Lifetime executives say until they reveal the details. Dish released them from the confidenciality agreement and are free to talk about it. They havent and just keep repeating the same "few pennies" line.
> 
> ...


Well Tony, a woman will say she is going to the store to pick up a few things and six hours later come back and has spent $300 or more, so...Looks to me as though this is the same principal. But then again, that is just my opinion. See Ya Lifetime, enjoy missing out on those 12 million customers you had the chance to get! hehehehehe


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## chedvet (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm not a big fan of Lifetime but If i was lifetime I'd replace my channels as soon as possible. If I was a advertiser i'd refuse to advertise on Lifetime until I had the 12 million subscribers back. I think if we get advertisers alert on this issue may bring lifetime back. If advertisers pull ads as a result it will get lifetime to clean their act up on this issue.


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## nsafreak (Mar 23, 2004)

chedvet said:


> I'm not a big fan of Lifetime but If i was lifetime I'd replace my channels as soon as possible. If I was a advertiser i'd refuse to advertise on Lifetime until I had the 12 million subscribers back. I think if we get advertisers alert on this issue may bring lifetime back. If advertisers pull ads as a result it will get lifetime to clean their act up on this issue.


Oh I'm pretty sure that the advertisers have been aware of this issue for quite some time and may be part of the reason that Lifetime was spinning the issue the way they were. If I was advertising with Lifetime I would tell them that they either have to lower my rates for advertising with them since they have just cost me 12 million potential viewers of my ads or I'm taking my business elsewhere.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

After everything that has happened, I am not surprised Lifetime won't be returning. I would think Lifetime would be concerned about not being on the lineup of the 12 million subscribers Dish has.

I assume Dish Network has reviewed its customer cancellations this past month to see how much affect losing Lifetime has had. I would guess not much affect on things.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

dave1234 said:


> I'm a little dense, could someone please explain how losing the entire Dish revenue stream is better than the 2005 income from Dish? Wouldn't that "cripple" Lifetime even more?


Agreed, but the greatest loss to Lifetime Networks is advertising revenue. Losing (not loosing) 12M subscribers in one swell foop translates into an instant and precipitous drop in Nielson numbers, thus, rates charged to their advertisers.

If/when the Lifetime geniuses do come crawling back to the bargaining table, pressure from their advertisers will be the underlying motivation.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

And.... as time goes on the value of Lifetime to Dish shrinks each and every day. Those customers who "have to" have Lifetime have probably made the switch to other suppliers. Those who remain don't see superior value in Lifetime over other channels. Charlie mentioned that in his press conference at CES. Dish now needs to handle Lifetime as it would any "NEW", startup, channel coming to the service, not the old, established channel that it was in the past.


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## Dax (May 15, 2004)

I don't think I've ever watched anything on Lifetime Movie Network, and rarely watched Lifetime, but I'd rather have the channels than not have them. The temporary replacements of ELOVE and WE are of no advantage to those of us with AT180.

I just hope they replace them with something better than Oxygen because after looking at that channel's schedule, I can tell it will be another one that I will rarely watch.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

"Lifetime demanded an exorbitant price increase of 76 percent under the contract term."

Hey, my water and sewer bill just went up 500%. Can someone help us out?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dave1234 said:


> I'm a little dense, could someone please explain how losing the entire Dish revenue stream is better than the 2005 income from Dish? Wouldn't that "cripple" Lifetime even more?


That's exactly what I was thinking... They lose all that guaranteed revenue... plus now their advertisers are going to start asking for discounts due to the loss of the 12 million potential viewers that LifeTime would have claimed by being on Dish.

Also, as others have pointed out... I don't see a mass exodus from Dish over this one channel (2 or 3 technically if you count LifeTime Movie and Real Women) being gone.

Like I've said throughout, I'm sure both parties were spinning things to their advantage... but at least Dish always said publically that they wanted LifeTime whereas LifeTime said Dish hated women, was lying, and encouraged people to switch to another service provider. So my guess is that Dish was more in the right here, and I'm glad they stuck to their original position.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Lifetime took a gamble. If ish continues to grow at its current rate it will only help Oxygen which is lifetime competitor. This has the ablity to put oxygen as the #1 Women channel(I know of a lot of wman group who would like to see this as oxygen is run 100% by woman and not like lifetime which is a network run by men hopping they can guess at what woman want like how do we kill and torture our partner)


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

If Charlie had to go the nuclear option, I'm glad it was with channels that neither my wife nor I watch. The channels we got instead are useful and will get watched much more than Lifetime ever was.... Hopefully, other programmers will witness what ultimatums and extortionist negotiating tactics get them and not pursue a similar cource at their next round of negotiations....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Charlie needed a 'nuclear option' channel that he could drop for unfair negotiation and get away with. The next time he's at a bargaining table and he says "perhaps E* doesn't need to carry your channel" it will be taken seriously.

It's poker. Charlie isn't bluffing.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> It's poker. Charlie isn't bluffing.


No it's blackjack, and Charlie looks like a darn good card-counter. He's got Aces back to back, and knows that there are alot of tens left in the shoe.


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## chedvet (Jan 23, 2006)

I’m not a big lifetime fan, I think Lifetime is asking more than just pennies on the dollar for there programming. If they offering there channel for 5 cents more per subscriber with 12 million subscribers it would end up at 600,000 dollars more in revenue. They are almost spending more to bring dish network down with there advertisements and spending time with complains. I told lifetime in my email, if they really cared about rural American women they would add lifetime back to dish network because some viewers from dish is better than no viewers period.


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## cpufixer1 (Jun 10, 2003)

Love it that Charlie teaches these programmer a lesson. A station that has no ratings is demanding an increase. Thats's Bull. Drop them and keep Oxygen. It's a better station anyway.


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## TBarclay (Mar 24, 2002)

I get a big kick out of Lifetime's contention that the rates they were asking are comparable to WHAT THEY BELIEVE Dish is paying other programmers. What difference should that make? I'd like to know how their proposed rate compares to what D* and Comcast are paying. It's like a grocery store charging me a high price for apples based on what they believe I'm paying for sirloin steak!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jessshaun said:


> No offence, but goodbye and good riddance. Couldn't stand the channel.


Liftime just degrades women. I never watched them anyay, so no lost to me. Oxygen is more positive.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

I guess at least one Rocky Mountain News business reporter is on Lifetime's speed dial list. This story ran this morning: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_4407867,00.html

"The New York-based network also announced plans to intensify its 'Switch From Dish' campaign, saying that Lifetime owners Hearst Corp. and The Walt Disney Co. 'will apply their resources' to partnerships with rival DirecTV and cable companies to offer Dish customers incentives to switch. Lifetime spokesman Gary Morgenstein said the network will announce details of the incentives soon."

I care about this dispute the way I'd care about McDonalds vs. beef producers, but personally, I hate these mean-spirited tactics. If you can't reach an agreement, then smile and walk away.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Courtesy of Lifetime's website:

We continue to be open to an agreement with DISH that is fair to us, fair to our viewers and fair to other providers, and which reflects the value of our networks, but we have not once heard such an offer from DISH in more than seven months of negotiations. *We strongly believe that among the more than 180 channels DISH provides, including 46 sports and seven pornography channels, DISH should have room for more than two women's networks.*

Does that mean when they say room for more than two women's networks--they want the Lifetime Real Women channel added on??? Lifetime has never mentioned that in their letters. Directv and Verizon Fios carry Lifetime Real Women as well as some cable systems.

Even with the incentives from Walt Disney/Hearst on switching to cable or Directv, I can't think that many will bother just over not getting Lifetime!


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

If you ain't ESPN, programmers:hurah: take note: Chas and company don't bluff. Lifetime may be gone, but the sun rose in the east this morning.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

All of this is a good case study in why negotiations should not be conducted in the press. My guess is that both sides are too entrenched now and that a deal is less and less likely.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

My take on this has always been that if one channel (or one set of a couple channels) is going to cause a substantial rate hike just by itself, i.e. this single channel is going to contribute an extra $2+/month to the end user's pricing, then the channel should be dumped. If the hike is accepted without comment, it just encourages all of the content providers to raise their rates as well, quickly causing AT60 to cost in the $100+/month range.

Honestly a channel can't be a "basic" channel and yet try to price itself in a more premium range; if they're going to do that, they need to eliminate their advertising and move in with HBO and the like. Content producers need to realize that, as soon as they start getting greedy, similar content can always be provided by someone else at a cheaper price.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Link said:


> *We strongly believe that among the more than 180 channels DISH provides, including 46 sports and seven pornography channels, DISH should have room for more than two women's networks.*
> 
> Does that mean when they say room for more than two women's networks--


There ARE two women's networks (WE & Oxygen) and they are saying that there is room for more than two (Lifetime would make it three).


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Well sorry my wife prefers we watch the porno channels together rather than Lifetime. She does like Oxygen alot tho.


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

ehren said:


> Well sorry my wife prefers we watch the porno channels together rather than Lifetime. She does like Oxygen alot tho.


Considering the content on Sue Johanson's show, this seems to make sense.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe someone should tell the folks at LifeTime that DirecTV and Cable also has those pornographic channels.

Curious that they would even bring something like that into the discussion, as if to imply that Dish chose pornography over LifeTime? Why didn't they also mention the hundreds of CD/Sirius audio channels that Dish has too? Or all the shopping channels and PSI channels?

LifeTime is just making themselves look worse and worse the more they speak, in my mind.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Maybe Lifetime could negotiate better if they had a Lifetime porno channel to offer!!!


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

"Hey, Lifetime, don't let the door hit ya in the butt on your way out!"
Seriously, E* has been more than fair, you on the other hand, have been greedy and behaved badly. Asta La Vista, Baby


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

The word now is that Charlie has made an offer to Lifetime for them to be offered ala carte at the price they were requesting. Now it's up to Lifetime to determine what's more financially beneficial: 

*ala carte at the price they wanted but only to those that want it (essentially flushing their 12M potential household ad rates down the toilet)

*just write off the 12M households altogether and get $0/mo


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Charlie would likely markup the ala carte price, which would just tick Lifetime off more.


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## sgt1205 (Jan 17, 2006)

EchoStar sent a letter Monday, Jan. 23 to Lifetime inviting them to immediately restore Lifetime Channel on a stand-alone basis (a la carte) for DISH Network customers who wish to subscribe to this channel. To do this, DISH Network is willing to pay Lifetime the most recent rate they proposed for broadcasting the Lifetime channel and to then make the channel available on a stand alone basis to any of our subscribers who request it. 

Lifetime had originally demanded an unreasonable rate to carry Lifetime as part of a bundle of channels in the America's Top 60 package. But DISH Network remains committed to protecting it customers from unreasonable rate increases that would result from their exorbitant price demand.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Are the contracts with the programmers done every few years--not every year??? Has Lifetime already renewed with Directv?? I guess one problem could be that Lifetime is getting too costly to be in the Top 60 package but yet they won't go for just the 120/180.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

No network wants to lose viewers, even if they are only potential viewers.
For years Lifetime has been able to say "AVAILABLE in xxxxx homes" including E* subscribers who may never view it in their count. Move into the higher AT packages and you can't count all 12 million E* customers in the potential viewers.

A la carte is the worse answer for Lifetime. That gives an EXACT number of E* viewers who care enough to PAY EXTRA to get the program. While some may have cared when it was part of their package, making them pay makes caring a choice.

If I were them I'd come back with whatever Charlie offered for AT60 placement and beg. Note that when Oxygen was released it was announced that the channel was going to REPLACE LMN in AT120, so that was heading to AT180 (or off the system).

I wonder if WE will be left in AT60 when this all ends. I doubt if EncoreLOVE will stay in AT120. While the Lifetime negotiations are 'over' the changes are still unsettled.


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## jessshaun (Sep 14, 2005)

sgt1205 said:


> EchoStar sent a letter Monday, Jan. 23 to Lifetime inviting them to immediately restore Lifetime Channel on a stand-alone basis (a la carte) for DISH Network customers who wish to subscribe to this channel. To do this, DISH Network is willing to pay Lifetime the most recent rate they proposed for broadcasting the Lifetime channel and to then make the channel available on a stand alone basis to any of our subscribers who request it.


Actually this would make me happy, some might be upset about it, sure, but at least you would have the option to get it if you wish. Not me however, still don't want it. :nono:


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> Liftime just degrades women. I never watched them anyay, so no lost to me. Oxygen is more positive.


Yeah realy, when was the last time Lifetime did a biography on Marion P. Hammer, who was recently inducted into the Florida Women's Hall of Fame? When was the last time Lifetime did a special on the Second Amendment Sisters or Women Against Gun Control, two orginizations that are currently involved in a lawsuit against the city of San Franciso?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> A la carte is the worse answer for Lifetime. That gives an EXACT number of E* viewers who care enough to PAY EXTRA to get the program..


Jusy to clear up some confusion (or make things more confusing:
Dish will pay Lifetime exactly what Lifetime is demanding per subscriber that calls Dish and asks for Lifetime.

The subscriber calling Dish would pay $0 extra over the standard AT60 and higher subscription for Lifetime. The cost to the subscriber is a toll free phone call.

Dish pays what Lifetime wants per each subscriber per month and Lifetime gets what they asked for EXCEPT the automatic fee for every subscriber from AT60.

See ya
Tony


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

I saw this on wikipedia while looking up something else. 

I got a laugh out of it 

Charles W. "Charlie" Ergen (born May 1, 1953) is the co-founder and CEO of EchoStar Communications Corporation, the parent company of Dish Network.

Born in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, Ergen's father William Ergen was a nuclear physicist at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, and his mother Viola Ergen is the retired business manager of the Oak Ridge Children's Museum. After graduating from Oak Ridge High School in 1971, he graduated from the University of Tennessee at Knoxville (BA) and Wake Forest University (MBA). He worked as a financial analyst for Frito Lay and as a professional blackjack player until he was kicked out of a casino for card counting.

In 1981, he founded EchoStar with his wife Candy and Jim DeFranco, targeting rural audiences for satellite dish service. He hosts a show called Charlie Chat on the Dish Network.

Ergen has a reputation of being a down-to-earth person and a ruthless businessman.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

I honestly didn't know that Charlie was from Oak Ridge. That is the same county that I grew up in. I wonder if he still has any ties there. I need to look this up. Thanks stonecold for the info.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

stonecold said:


> He worked as a financial analyst for Frito Lay and as a professional blackjack player until he was kicked out of a casino for card counting.


That makes sense, Charlie knows Lifetime is holding a seven and an eight, and there are alot of tens left in the deck. Charlie on the otherhand has aces back to back.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I honestly didn't know that Charlie was from Oak Ridge.


He was a good friend of my cousins in Oak Ridge and used to congregate with his friends at their house after school years ago.


> I wonder if he still has any ties there. I need to look this up.


At the CES Show he informed me that my aunt and one of my cousins attended his mother's recent 90th birthday party, so, at least she is still in Oak Ridge.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Geronimo said:


> All of this is a good case study in why negotiations should not be conducted in the press. My guess is that both sides are too entrenched now and that a deal is less and less likely.



Who cares?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

"...*it's obvious that DISH doesn't value women*." 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Evening Bridge - January 24, 2006
---------------------------------------------------------------------

TOP STORY - The ongoing carriage spat between Lifetime and EchoStar 
took yet another turn today when the programmer put advertising in 
The New York Times taking aim at the satellite TV company. The tagline 
of the ad read: "46 Sports channels. 7 Pornography channels. 0 Lifetime 
Channels. If Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network - the No. 1 and No. 2 
women's networks - can't make the cut, it's obvious that DISH doesn't 
value women."

More in Wednesday's SkyREPORT


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

"EchoStar said the ad was exaggerated, noting that 46 sports channels are not available to any one subscriber."

More: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...MEDIA-LIFETIME-ECHOSTAR-DC.XML&archived=False

Lifetime's Press Release:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-24-2006/0004266642&EDATE=


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Sports, Porn, No Lifetime: Programmer Again Targets DISH

The ongoing carriage skirmish between Lifetime and EchoStar took yet another turn Tuesday after Lifetime paid for a full-page ad in The New York Times targeting the satellite TV company and its refusal to negotiate a deal that would put its programming back on DISH Network. 
The headline of the ad was blunt, saying "DISH Network Lineup: 46 sports channels. 7 pornography channels. 0 Lifetime channels. If Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network - the No. 1 and No. 2 women's networks - can't make the cut, it's obvious that DISH doesn't value women."

The advertising also encourages DISH Network subscribers to switch to DirecTV or a local cable operator.

Betty Cohen, president and CEO of Lifetime Entertainment Services, said, "Women really value Lifetime's award-winning programming and our impassioned advocacy - that's why we are the No. 1 and No. 2 women's networks. We had no choice but to walk away from DISH's 'take it or leave it' offer if we hoped to continue to honor our commitment to viewers."

In response, EchoStar spokesperson Marc Lumpkin said, "Once again, they (Lifetime) have resorted to politics rather than debating the economics of their outrageous price demand."

Also, EchoStar pointed to the dozens of channels it delivers with programming aimed at women, including Oxygen, Women's Entertainment (WE), Encore Love, HGTV, Food Network, Style TV, E! Entertainment, SoapNet, ABC Family, Travel Channel, Wisdom, Fine Living, among other channels that feature information, news, sports and entertainment. DISH also agreed with Scripps Network yesterday on a long-term agreement to carry the Fine Living TV Network.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)


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## Dax (May 15, 2004)

Okay, I'm confused. The latest proposal by DISH is to provide Lifetime at no cost to customers who request it, and to pay Lifetime the most recent rate proposed. How is this different, financially, than just accepting Lifetime's latest offer and turning the channel back on?


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Because Dish has to pay Lifetime per customer.

If they re-add it to AT60 so that everyone who has a programming package receives it, they have to pay Lifetime for every customer who has at least AT60. If, however, they only provide it to customers who specifically ask for it, then they only have to pay Lifetime for those customers. Dish's assumption, which is probably correct, is that the number of people who call and ask for it is going to be quite small compared to the overall number of customers.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

It's too bad that I can't figure out the channel counts. From what I can see, there are 15 nationally distributed "sports-type" channels plus two E$PN Alternate channels. In addition, a typical subscriber has 1-4 R$N channels plus up to eight alternate channels for some games (most of which are blacked out). I wonder if Lifetime is including every single R$N in their calculations (which would have many games blacked out), or the league passes in their calculations.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Slordak said:


> Because Dish has to pay Lifetime per customer.
> 
> If they re-add it to AT60 so that everyone who has a programming package receives it, they have to pay Lifetime for every customer who has at least AT60. If, however, they only provide it to customers who specifically ask for it, then they only have to pay Lifetime for those customers. Dish's assumption, which is probably correct, is that the number of people who call and ask for it is going to be quite small compared to the overall number of customers.


Which is why Lifetime and channels like it know that a-la carte will not work. They are probably taking a beating on the loss of advertising. Wait till some of them start asking for their money back on the loss of potential audiance. They will cave, and Charlie and Co. know it.

Hey, I just noticed that they are part owned by Disney. No wonder he's standing up against this. It will send a message to Disney and others when other channels like ESPN come up for renew.


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

Slordak said:


> Because Dish has to pay Lifetime per customer.
> 
> If they re-add it to AT60 so that everyone who has a programming package receives it, they have to pay Lifetime for every customer who has at least AT60. If, however, they only provide it to customers who specifically ask for it, then they only have to pay Lifetime for those customers. Dish's assumption, which is probably correct, is that the number of people who call and ask for it is going to be quite small compared to the overall number of customers.


Lifetime's average primetime viewership is around a maximum of 2 million (and that's across ALL providers--cable and satellite). You can probably cut that number down to 6-figures where it comes to Dish Network's portion (and likely even less who would go to the trouble to pick up the phone and opt-in)

Ergo why Lifetime wants nothing to do with that offer.


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## JosephF (Apr 23, 2002)

catnap1972 said:


> Lifetime's average primetime viewership is around a maximum of 2 million (and that's across ALL providers--cable and satellite). You can probably cut that number down to 6-figures where it comes to Dish Network's portion (and likely even less who would go to the trouble to pick up the phone and opt-in)
> 
> Ergo why Lifetime wants nothing to do with that offer.


And exactly why E* has no interest in Lifetime at the price they are demanding.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

catnap1972 said:


> Lifetime's average primetime viewership is around a maximum of 2 million (and that's across ALL providers--cable and satellite). You can probably cut that number down to 6-figures where it comes to Dish Network's portion (and likely even less who would go to the trouble to pick up the phone and opt-in)
> 
> Ergo why Lifetime wants nothing to do with that offer.


And exactly why Lifetime has no business trying to extort the prices they apparently are. They only think they can get away with it because they are affiliated with Disney and because they are appealing to those protestors who don't know the facts.

I hope they, and others, learn this will not be tolerated by those who ultimately control their pursestrings. Their ACTUAL viewership, which is a pretty limited number, should be primarily responsible for paying Lifetime's charges.

I hope Lifetime's demands for carriage continue to fail if they continue using the tactic that Dish Network doesn't care about women. Their channel doesn't care about women either--only dollars!


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

My girlfriend saw this tread and she claims that lifetime will only hurt them selfs with such ads, in her words "ONLY MAN WILL DO SOMETHING AS THIS AND THIS PROVES THAT LIFETIME IS RUN BY MAN WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND WOMAN" interesting, will these ads turn woman off to the lifetime network


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> My girlfriend saw this tread and she claims that lifetime will only hurt them selfs with such ads, in her words "ONLY MAN WILL DO SOMETHING AS THIS AND THIS PROVES THAT LIFETIME IS RUN BY MAN WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND WOMAN" interesting, will these ads turn woman off to the lifetime network


There is less and less acceptance of the Balkan-style bigotry that demands special treatment for women. I doubt very much that this was a unilateral decision by Charlie. I bet his management team put together a Cost-Benefit analysis, and WE came up on the short end of the CBA. Charlie could roast them for extreme rate increases, look like he's protecting his customers, and cover his bottom line at the same time.

Certainly adding the commercial-free Encore movie channel is a vast improvement over the mediocre WE programming. In this case, Dish really is looking out for the customer. I bet Dish doesn't get many complaints.


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## Hoobastank (Mar 9, 2004)

You know, back during the great Echostar/Viacom war of 2004, I was very pissed they couldn't reach a deal, cause I watched those channels, but it was resolved rather quickly. The big difference, I think, between Viacom and Lifetime is that Viacom didn't act like little *****es and freak out, urging Dish customers to switch to D* or cable (or did they?)

Anyway, Lifetime basically is digging their own grave as far as being carried with Dish. If I were E*, and Lifetime was actively tellings subs to drop Dish for other providers, I would close all doors to Lifetime. They are at a point of no return, and they know it. These types of tactics are a last resort in losing battle. Good riddance to Lifetime.


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## MSoper72 (Jun 18, 2004)

I seen no other cable or satellite provider ceo get on camera for his customers to know what E* is doing so far. Plus, he does his best to explain the situation at hand. Yet, Charlie may have his faults, but I give him credit for standing up against Lifetime and their wasteful tactics. 

The other day, I received an email from Lifetime. It was the same generic email on how to bash E* or switch to cable or D*. I replied and told them that they are acting like little children. That they needed to have their parents step in and stop the bashing (U.S. Government.) 

I enjoy E* variety of programming. I used to be with D* till my bill went up and up and I soon switched to E* and since then, I've been a satisfied customer. Thanks E* for standing up and fighting for your customers!!! 

Most of time when I used watched Lifetime. It mainly had shows about women being degrated. It about made me sick of what they showed. RIP to Lifetime.

Lifetime, and I'll quote their email, "Typically, we don't negotiate in the media or reveal details of our proposals or agreements with cable and satellite operators, but we feel we owe it to you to let you know why we have had to walk away rather than accept their bad deal. We took this step for us and for women everywhere after reluctantly concluding that DISH had left us no true alternative. DISH rejected all of our fair and reasonable offers. " 

It looks to me that Lifetime lied to their viewers and went against of what they said they were not going to do. Even Charlie invited Lifetime to be on the Charlie Chat and they refused. Shame on you Lifetime! No other provider does this for its customers!!!


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Hoobastank said:


> The big difference, I think, between Viacom and Lifetime is that Viacom didn't act like little *****es and freak out, urging Dish customers to switch to D* or cable (or did they?)


They did it and some of the local stations did it was well. The viacom fight was over in like 2 days, but it involved carraige of some CBS stations, which they now no longer own. Viacom had an add about how Spongebob was gone.

http://www.boston.com/ae/media/articles/2004/03/12/echostar_and_viacom_reach_accord/



> A full-page ad in Wednesday's Boston Globe read: "You have just been left high and dry without SpongeBob. EchoStar/DISH Network has taken away the channels that carry many of your favorite shows."


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> It will send a message to Disney and others when other channels like ESPN come up for renew.


Doesn't really send much of a message. You can't compare dropping Lifetime to dropping ESPN (who still has the distributors bent over a barrel).

Funny that Lifetime is blaming E* for carrying so much Sports and Adult content. It's all really driven by market demands. If people didn't want sports and porn it wouldn't be there.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> Doesn't really send much of a message. You can't compare dropping Lifetime to dropping ESPN (who still has the distributors bent over a barrel).
> 
> Funny that Lifetime is blaming E* for carrying so much Sports and Adult content. It's all really driven by market demands. If people didn't want sports and porn it wouldn't be there.


Really???

Last time I checked I could elect to either subscribe or cancel the porn channels.

When was the last time "anyone" could elect to subscribe or cancel sports?

While I agree that sports are more popular (much!) that the Lifetime "I hate men" channels but please do not assume that if people were given the option of either paying or not paying for expensive sports that everyone will just bend over and pay whatever is asked no matter the cost.

-JB


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

:hurah: Pron give me porn or die. Lifetime is being very stupid. Porn started the whole video revaluation. If it wasn't for porn VCR sales would have not takken off. In the 60 Sears had introduce a home vcr which went nowhere In the late 70 early 80 when sony came out with betamax and Jvc with VHs the early buyers of vcr in most part bought the unit to watch porn in privicy. Early cable adaptors watched the playboy channel and spice tv. Lifetime network would not exit if it wasn't for porn.. .GIVE ME PORN OR GIVE ME DEATH!(PS Roberto Gonzalez is at my front door):hurah:


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## sattec (May 28, 2004)

Sorry, DIRECTV doesn't offer The HorseTV Channel yet ... but your voice matters to them!

Call DIRECTV at 1-800-DIRECTV today and tell them you want The HorseTV Channel to be part of your channel lineup, and/or click continue below to automatically send them a message.

DIRECTV
2230 E Imperial Hwy

supposedly dish does....or will


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

tomcrown1 said:


> :hurah: Pron give me porn or die. Lifetime is being very stupid. Porn started the whole video revaluation. If it wasn't for porn VCR sales would have not takken off. In the 60 Sears had introduce a home vcr which went nowhere In the late 70 early 80 when sony came out with betamax and Jvc with VHs the early buyers of vcr in most part bought the unit to watch porn in privicy. Early cable adaptors watched the playboy channel and spice tv. Lifetime network would not exit if it wasn't for porn.. .GIVE ME PORN OR GIVE ME DEATH!(PS Roberto Gonzalez is at my front door):hurah:


:lol: :lol: :lol: It's good to see someone is a student of history.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

Weird situation for both DirecTV and the Cable companies. In their heart of hearts they're pulling for Chas and company to win this one. 

Sort of sets the bar. They'd like to keep programming costs in check too.

But then there's the opportunity to steal away a few disgruntled customers (and I believe it will be a very few) away, partnering somehow with Lifetime.

That said, if I was Echostar, (which I'm not) I'd certainly point out that Lifetime is spending a ton of dough on ads and protests and such, which is driving up their operating costs and is the reason they're having to raise their rates so much.

Even those DISH customers that are miffed about what's going on with Lifetime, are content to sit tight for a while. They know that other disputes have been resolved. This one may in fact not be, but Chas and his team know that time is on their side.

But again, Rupert and the cable folks are really, truly, rooting for Echostar to win this one.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Lifetime is just another of many questionable channels with recycled and largely un-original content with a market focus for women. They either need to control their costs better (along with a slew of other channels) or find ways to make themselves worth more to the viewers.. 

Eventually, unless these nickel and dime increases stop, people will start going to lower levels of programming to save $$ or turn it off completely and watch rental DVD's at better prices..

Also I suspect that unlike Viacom deal, Dish is not getting flooded with calls that Lifetime is missing..


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## dishnh (Jun 6, 2004)

I wonder if this will change E*'s thinking or will E* stick to their guns?

Lifetime Gets Some Black Caucus Backing

By Anne Becker -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/27/2006 11:05:00 AM

Lifetime has enlisted the help of Congress in its fight to gain back carriage of its networks on EchoStar's Dish network.

Eleven women members of the Congressional Black Caucus, all Democratic representatives, have sent a letter to Dish CEO Charlie Ergen urging him, in the name of diversity, to bring back the two Lifetime networks that Dish dropped amidst a contract dispute Dec. 31. The members included Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Diane Watson (D-Calif.) and Gwen Moore (D-Wis.).

According to the CBC's letter, by not carrying the networks, the satellite service "will further diminish the already inadequate diversity of channels and programming available to American viewers."

The letter says Lifetime's programs focus on "important issues facing Americans daily, including breast cancer awareness, equal pay for women, and violence against women." Caucus members ask Ergen to reestablish his relationship with Lifetime, although they say they are "not familiar with the business considerations" involved in the carriage negotiation.

Lifetime said it had ceased carriage negotiations with EchoStar last week, which meant Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network are still absent from Dish, which serves 12 million subscribers. According to Lifetime, EchoStar won't budge from its demand to cut license fees up to 33%, while EchoStar counters that Lifetime is asking for a large increase in fees.

EchoStar recently sent a letter to Lifetime offering to carry the network on an à la carte basis. The network would be free to subscribers and EchoStar would pay Lifetime per subscriber at the last rate Lifetime proposed. An EchoStar representative said Lifetime declined that offer.

"We believe when [the congresswomen] understand the facts, they will see this is about economics and not women's issues," said a Dish spokesperson, who had not yet seen the CBC's letter. "Once again, Lifetime is negotiating through politics."

As for the women's groups that had run public service announcements on Lifetime, Dish has offered them time on the more than 12 women's networks it currently offers, said the Dish spokesperson. The company has already begun receiving submissions from these groups, whose PSAs would run as interstitials, free of charge.

The 43-member caucus works to address "the legislative concerns of black and minority citizens," according to its web site


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

This is one case where I think Lifetime's tactics are going to come back to bite them... You can't do fuil page ads and whine to congress and really expect to get traction, it looks exactly like it does, a bunch of whiners that don't want to negotiate a fair price for what they provide..


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## chedvet (Jan 23, 2006)

I think the reason why the Viacom-Dish dispute was a short one was the Fact Viacom knew that their ratings would sink and they would loose ad revenue. Unlike Hearst who think's their main point of revenue is from the subscriber which is so true but if advertisers were to pull out they would be in a world of hurt. Wait til sweeps when Lifetime ratings sink and advertisers pull ads for the missing viewership of millions. They will readd their channel fast when viewership is down hard and they will lose major ad. revenue as the result of lower ratings.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

dishnh said:


> Lifetime Gets Some Black Caucus Backing
> 
> By Anne Becker -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/27/2006 11:05:00 AM
> 
> Lifetime has enlisted the help of Congress in its fight to gain back carriage of its networks on EchoStar's Dish network.


No, they didn't. They "enlisted the help" of a bunch of wackos who happen to be a part of congress.



> Eleven women members of the Congressional Black Caucus, all Democratic representatives, have sent a letter to Dish CEO Charlie Ergen urging him, in the name of diversity, to bring back the two Lifetime networks that Dish dropped amidst a contract dispute Dec. 31. The members included Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Diane Watson (D-Calif.) and Gwen Moore (D-Wis.).


Like I said.



> According to Lifetime, EchoStar won't budge from its demand to cut license fees up to 33%, while EchoStar counters that Lifetime is asking for a large increase in fees.


Lifetime probably defines a 33% cut the same way the wacko congress members define a cut.



> EchoStar recently sent a letter to Lifetime offering to carry the network on an à la carte basis. The network would be free to subscribers and EchoStar would pay Lifetime per subscriber at the last rate Lifetime proposed. An EchoStar representative said Lifetime declined that offer.
> 
> "We believe when [the congresswomen] understand the facts, they will see this is about economics and not women's issues," said a Dish spokesperson, who had not yet seen the CBC's letter. "Once again, Lifetime is negotiating through politics."
> 
> ...


I wonder if they are going to picket Charlie's house so he can have his dog sniff them "inappropriately". :lol:


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

So what channel is gonna replace Lifetime Feb 1st?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

dishnh said:


> I wonder if this will change E*'s thinking or will E* stick to their guns?
> 
> Lifetime Gets Some Black Caucus Backing
> 
> ...


This is nonsense taking this to Congress. Lifetime going to suffer. Bozo the clown must be running Lifetime.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

Wow, playing the women's rights thing did not work, so now they are pulling the race card. Things are sounding desperate over at Lifetime.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Next Lifetime will go after the Transgendered groups. That way they can get both men and women behind them all in the same package. Twice the amount of protestors all in one group.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Despite some heated exchanges in the press last week, they're 
still talking.

Word is that EchoStar and Lifetime were communicating with each
other late last week about a possible deal that would restore the
programmer's flagship channel on the DISH Network lineup. It is
also suggested that EchoStar is eyeing a replacement channel if a
final deal isn't finalized in the near future.

EchoStar took Lifetime programming off DISH Network on Dec. 31
after the two sides couldn't reach an agreement on carriage.

www.SkyReport.com - used with permission


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Nick said:


> Despite some heated exchanges in the press last week, they're
> still talking.
> 
> Word is that EchoStar and Lifetime were communicating with each
> ...


I wish they'd just move on and forget about this Lifetime issue.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Question who will drop dish if lifetime is added back on???


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> Question who will drop dish if lifetime is added back on???


Answer: No one?


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

David_Levin said:


> Funny that Lifetime is blaming E* for carrying so much Sports and Adult content. It's all really driven by market demands. If people didn't want sports and porn it wouldn't be there.


What is even funnier is that if I want free T&A flics, the women's channels are the ones that carry them. WE is far more pornographic than the majority of satellite programming.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Larry any T &A on lifetime?? should lifetime be R rated??


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

tomcrown1 said:


> Question who will drop dish if lifetime is added back on???


Not I. We don't need Liftime. Move on Charlie!


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

juan ellitinez said:


> So what channel is gonna replace Lifetime Feb 1st?


I thought they already did with Oxygen.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Oxygen took cate of LMN. Not Lifetime.


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

dishnh said:


> ..Eleven women members of the Congressional Black Caucus, all Democratic representatives, have sent a letter to Dish CEO Charlie Ergen urging him, in the name of diversity, to bring back the two Lifetime networks that Dish dropped amidst a contract dispute Dec. 31. The members included Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.), Diane Watson (D-Calif.) and Gwen Moore (D-Wis.). ..


What a great idea. :lol: I am in the middle of negotiating the price on a new Jet Ski with a local dealer. Although they are already giving me a big winter discount, I am wondering if I can get my congressman to write the dealer a letter urging them to give me an even bigger discount?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

TNGTony said:


> Oxygen took cate of LMN. Not Lifetime.


I thought Encore Love took the place of LMN.  Oh Well. Actually it's We they've moved into the old Lifetime slot at channel 108 isn't it? Anyway, if it weren't for my job I wouldn't care about any of 'em!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

I got an investor E-mail E saying a deal has been struck with Lifetime. I'm not an investor.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Either am I and I get them too. If you sign up on their website they will email you any press releases.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> This is nonsense taking this to Congress. Lifetime going to suffer. Bozo the clown must be running Lifetime.


No, Bozo the Clown would do a much better job. He'd have Cookie helping him out too. :lol:


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Bozo!!! I Love That Hair!!


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

So what's the status of Lifetime on Dish Network? The channel is still listed on Dish's web site...


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Lifetime and LMN came back to Dish on 1/31. LMN came back to AT180 rather than where it was on AT120. Lifetime itself is on AT60 as it was before the sleigh ride began.

There was a rumor that Lifetime Real Women would be added to the Dish Line-Up on 2/15 but that did not come to fruition. I have received word that it is still coming "soon". I am not convinced either way.

Encore Love is in free preview for AT120 subscribers and visible to AT180 and up subscribers on channel 126 through February.

Women's Entertainment is in free preview to AT60 and visible to AT120 and up subscribers on channel 125 through February.

If you do a search on Lifetime in this forum, you will find numerous threads about Lifetime's return. Also www.dishchannelchart.com documents all the changes to the Dish Lineup in reverse chronological order. Dial-up users are better served to go to http://ekb.dbstalk.com/247. There are also near weekly "uplink activity" threads that detail the goings on with Dish Network.

See ya
Tony


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