# There WILL be analog and VHF after Feb 2009



## kevinturcotte

I emailed all of my local channels (Portland, ME), and asked them what channel/frequency they'll be broadcasting on after the analog shut off. Our local PBS will be broadcasting on channel/frequency on channel 10. Also, our local FOX, WPFO, will NOT be broadcasting a digital signal. they will still be broadcasting their analog signal (That came from the station manager).


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## Earl Bonovich

ANALOG - No.

VHF - Yes


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## kevinturcotte

This is the email the station manager sent me:

"At this time, FOX23 is not being broadcast digitally over the air. We will not be converted to digital before February of 2009. When the station was purchased in 2003, the time period when stations could file with the FCC for an additional digital channel position had expired. Therefore, we are unlike the other stations in the market. When we make the switch, our analog signal on 23 will become our digital signal on 23."

I'm not saying you're wrong Earl, cause you almost always know what you're talking about. If it was just some flunky answering emails, I'd just assume they probably didn't know what they were talking about. But the station manager himself? If he doesn't know, that channel has problems lol


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## say-what

Actually, the station manager says that they will use channel 23 for their digital signal when the analog shuts down - "our analog signal on 23 will become our digital signal on 23." They just won't be using a different frequency.


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## kevinturcotte

What about this though: 

"We will not be converted to digital before February of 2009. When the station was purchased in 2003, the time period when stations could file with the FCC for an additional digital channel position had expired. Therefore, we are unlike the other stations in the market."


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## say-what

Since they only have the one frequency, they have to use it for the analog signal until February of 2009 - they can't broadcast in analog and digital at the same time. In February of 2009, they will then switch to digital.


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## fwlogue

Congress mandated that February 17, 2009 would be the last day for full-power television stations to broadcast in analog.


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## Stuart Sweet

This sounds like a special case. I know someone I can ask about it but please be patient as I know he's out of town right now.


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## HIPAR

The FCC released a long, boring document last Dec that made everything about the DTV transition perfectly clear.

There are no special cases for extensions. They are allowed to construct a new facility that must be operational next Feb when their analog license expires. 

--- CHAS


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## Jim5506

Many stations will "flash cut" from analog to digital at midnight February 17, 2009.

No time for testing, except during wee hours of the mornings after analog signs off.

We have 3 or 4 such stations here that will jump in cold turkey.

All full power analog licenses expire Feb 17, 2009, if they broadcast analog after that, they are in violation of their license.


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## scooper

kturcotte said:


> I emailed all of my local channels (Portland, ME), and asked them what channel/frequency they'll be broadcasting on after the analog shut off. Our local PBS will be broadcasting on channel/frequency on channel 10. Also, our local FOX, WPFO, will NOT be broadcasting a digital signal. they will still be broadcasting their analog signal (That came from the station manager).


All the above - WPFO WILL be broadcasting digitally on 17 Feb 2009 or they will not be broadcasting - period. The FCC has made that VERY plain in the 3RD Report and order of the DTV transition - nothing short of a 9/11 incident will even be considered as an excuse/ reason.

You can expect WPFO to do a flashcut sometime in January / Febuary 2009 - perhaps sooner. Their channel will still be 23 post transition, but they cannot do fulltime DTV broadcasting without shutting down their analog station.


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## Stewart Vernon

One key qualifier in all the above is "full power"... There will be many low power analog stations around the country, mostly in small markets, that do not go digital by next year. So there will be exceptions depending upon where you live.


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## RobertE

Why do I envision a bunch of station managers & engineers crossing their fingers and chanting "please work" over and over as the guy flicks the switch.


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## scooper

HDMe said:


> One key qualifier in all the above is "full power"... There will be many low power analog stations around the country, mostly in small markets, that do not go digital by next year. So there will be exceptions depending upon where you live.


I was going to mention that one in my post above yours - but I found through other sources that the station in question is a full power station - hence there is no reprieve from the digital requirement. They will HAVE to flashcut over to digital from analog on the same channel.


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## koji68

???

http://www.myfoxmaine.com/myfox/pag...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1

"In February 2009, WPFO FOX 23 will convert to a digital signal, as mandated by the FCC. Here are answers to some frequently asked questions about this conversion."


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## kevinturcotte

koji68 said:


> ???
> 
> http://www.myfoxmaine.com/myfox/pag...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1
> 
> "In February 2009, WPFO FOX 23 will convert to a digital signal, as mandated by the FCC. Here are answers to some frequently asked questions about this conversion."


Well, according the that, they will be. If the station manger doesn't even know what's going on, there's a problem at that station lol


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## Upstream

I'm not sure why you say the station manager does not know what is going on. His letter was fairly clear.

He said "At this time, FOX23 is not being broadcast digitally over the air." That is correct. At this time (Jan 2008), FOX23 is broadcasting analog OTA signals.

He said "We will not be converted to digital before February of 2009." That is correct. They will not convert to digital before February 2009. They will broadcast analog OTA until February 2009. During February 2009, they will convert to digital OTA, as mandated by the FCC.

He said "When we make the switch, our analog signal on 23 will become our digital signal on 23." That is correct. They currently broadcast an analog OTA signal on channel 23. When they switch in February 2009, they will broadcast a digital OTA signal on channel 23.


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## Jim5506

kturcotte said:


> Well, according the that, they will be. If the station manger doesn't even know what's going on, there's a problem at that station lol


You inferred what he did not imply.


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## ke3ju

Earl Bonovich said:


> ANALOG - No.
> 
> VHF - Yes


This quote could also read:

ANALOG - YES

VHF - NO

As the mandate only applies to full power stations. There is no mandate in place for low power translators, which rebroadcast a full power station's signal on a different UHF frequency. Here in the North Eastern PA, we have the largest translator network in the country. So folks around here that rely on NTSC OTA that are receiving signal via an OTA translator, will still be able to without a converter box after Feb of '09.

I've investigated this because I wanted to know if D* would provide guide data for the translators once everything went digital, but I have since found out that the translators will be remaining analog. At least for a while.

Bad for me, since I can't receive the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton stations directly OTA because of the mountainous terrain, and only two of the five stations in this area actually signed up to have their HD signal rebroadcast by D*. So I am still screwed for HD Network TV.

Best Regards,
Ed


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## homeskillet

Here is the broadcast advisory that was recently sent out....
http://www.dwt.com/practc/broadcast/bulletins/02-08_DigitalTV.htm

The FCC's Third DTV Periodic Order was published in the Federal Register on Jan. 30, 2008, providing details for the transition to digital television. That same day, the FCC issued a Public Notice finalizing the relevant dates and forms relating to the DTV transition set for Feb. 17, 2009. Although additional issues are likely to arise between now and then, this advisory summarizes the current status and next steps that stations need to take in the DTV transition process.

February 17, 2009: a hard and fast deadline

First and foremost, all full power stations must cease analog transmissions by 11:59 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2009, even if the station's DTV channel is not yet operational. This is an unwaivable deadline that the Commission says it is statutorily obligated to follow. Low power stations, translators and Class A stations, on the other hand, have no DTV transition deadline as of yet and, until further notice, those stations may continue broadcasting analog transmissions indefinitely.


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## racton1

homeskillet said:


> Here is the broadcast advisory that was recently sent out....
> http://www.dwt.com/practc/broadcast/bulletins/02-08_DigitalTV.htm
> 
> The FCC's Third DTV Periodic Order was published in the Federal Register on Jan. 30, 2008, providing details for the transition to digital television. That same day, the FCC issued a Public Notice finalizing the relevant dates and forms relating to the DTV transition set for Feb. 17, 2009. Although additional issues are likely to arise between now and then, this advisory summarizes the current status and next steps that stations need to take in the DTV transition process.
> 
> February 17, 2009: a hard and fast deadline
> 
> First and foremost, all full power stations must cease analog transmissions by 11:59 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2009, even if the station's DTV channel is not yet operational. This is an unwaivable deadline that the Commission says it is statutorily obligated to follow. Low power stations, translators and Class A stations, on the other hand, have no DTV transition deadline as of yet and, until further notice, those stations may continue broadcasting analog transmissions indefinitely.


Isn't the Federal government (FCC) auctioning off the analog frequencies as we speak. Therefore there will be no place for analog when the transition occurs. Only the digital frequenciies will be available for broadcast channels.


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## Kansas Zephyr

The frequencies covering channels 52-69 are being taken away from TV and auctioned off.

That's it.

Channels 2-13 VHF and 14-51 UHF will still be for TV.

There are no "analog" or "digital" frequencies, an analog or digital signal can be transmitted over any RF TV channel.


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## Geronimo

kturcotte said:


> What about this though:
> 
> "We will not be converted to digital before February of 2009. When the station was purchased in 2003, the time period when stations could file with the FCC for an additional digital channel position had expired. Therefore, we are unlike the other stations in the market."


the key word is BEFORE. In other words in February they WILL Convert. you misunderstood him.


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## REDSKINSFAN47

Kansas Zephyr said:


> The frequencies covering channels 52-69 are being taken away from TV and auctioned off.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Channels 2-13 VHF and 14-51 UHF will still be for TV.
> 
> There are no "analog" or "digital" frequencies, an analog or digital signal can be transmitted over any RF TV channel.


I thought 2 thru 6 vhf were also not going to be used for tv after 2/17/2009.


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## scooper

REDSKINSFAN47 said:


> I thought 2 thru 6 vhf were also not going to be used for tv after 2/17/2009.


You thought wrong. After Feb 17, 2009, TV broadcasting will be from channels 2-51 , inclusive (except 37). There are "issues" about using low VHF (2-6), but they are still available, and certainly not desireable for ATSC broadcasts.


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## jimisham

Here's a list of digital TV stations broadcasting on VHF. There's a few of them on channels 2 through 6.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/vhf_hdtv_stations.html


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## Carl Spock

That list is incomplete. For one, it doesn't have two of my local stations, WEAU-Eau Claire and WKBT-La Crosse, whose analogs are VHF and will be using those frequencies for their digital broadcasts after 2/09. Plus it is my understanding that across the country, there will be about 50 stations in 2-6 alone. A lot, like my locals, are going back to their Hi-VHF frequencies of 7-13.

Here is the best list I have found for a station's final DTV frequency. Its only problem is it doesn't show the interim DTV UHF frequencies for stations like WEAU and WKBT. This older list has them but is not as complete or accurate for stations' final frequencies.


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## Kansas Zephyr

The reason several TV stations are abandoning VHF low (2-6), after the cut-off, is the fear of multi-path and "ignition" noise.

Those slots will still be available for TV.

Better ATSC tuners, and real-world digital performance, have eased those fears quite a bit.

Some stations are now regretting not going back to VHF low, since the cost of transmitter operation is lower. But, the plans are in place, and there is too much momentum, and cost, to change direction now.


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## BobaBird

What is the issue with using channels 2-6 for ATSC?


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## Carl Spock

^ It's nicely detailed in the post right above yours.


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## BobaBird

:imwith: (icon best viewed rotated 90° CCW)


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## Davenlr

The reason not to use ch2-6??? We have a dtv station on ch 5. Every time the a/c or heater kicks on, someone flips a light switch on or off, or a car with a noisy ignition drives by, the signal cuts out momentarily. I have a excellent OTA antenna, with RG6QS coax too. And don't even TRY watching if there is a thunderstorm within 20 miles. 

For comparison, VHF ch 12 here exhibits none of the above mentioned problems except the lightning, and the UHF stations rock on even during a thunderstorm right over my house.

They should have made UHF 14-69 mandatory, renumbered them starting with 1 (where is channel 1 anyway?) and got rid of both VHF bands.


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