# Sports Programming as it says...



## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Dish network has NBA league pass.NHL center ice,MLB Extra Innings.ESPN game plan,ESPN full court.Direct tv has the same sports programming Why dish network cant get NFL Sunday ticket too?Dish network should get the same thing like direct tv has?


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

DirectTv got 1st dibs to buy the rights in 1995 before Dish was a company. DirectTv had exclusive status and they got 1st dibs in 2002 or 2003 to renew.

They have Exclusive status for that until 2008.

Dish just got EI this year and CI in 2002-2003


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

That aint right.I want my NFL on dish too.The reason i left direct tv cause their programming is so expensive.Untill they stop making sports pack,TMC,IFC and Encore into premium channels i wont go back.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Steveox said:


> That aint right.I want my NFL on dish too.The reason i left direct tv cause their programming is so expensive.Untill they stop making sports pack,TMC,IFC and Encore into premium channels i wont go back.


Directv=Home of the NFL Sunday Ticket and SIX HD games per week as well as the NFL Network (65 preseason games). Sounds like you got pissed at the rates then took your toys and went home to Dish without first doing your homework :lol:


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> Directv=Home of the NFL Sunday Ticket and SIX HD games per week as well as the NFL Network (65 preseason games). Sounds like you got pissed at the rates then took your toys and went home to Dish without first doing your homework :lol:


Well i wasnt gonna keep paying $90 a month for those premium channels. :nono:


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Well then its YOUR own fault for not dropping down from TCP Premier of course that package is costly. :nono2:


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> Well then its YOUR own fault for not dropping down from TCP Premier of course that package is costly. :nono2:


I didnt have the Total Choice premium.I have HBO,SHOWTIME And SPORTS PACK Add em up to TOTAL CHOICE PLUS,And what you get? 42.99 plus 12.00 plus 11.00 and plus 10.00 and 9.99 TIVO Service that adds up to around $81 PLUS LIBERAL STATE TAX and thats over $90.00.On Dish network i get americas top 180 $49.99 which includes TMC.IFC ENCORE And sports channels.Plus i added HBO & MAX that comes out $61 add liberal sales tax thats about $71 So thats like a $20 savings.Plus i get more than direct tv can offer!So i got the bigger bargan.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Saying you want your NFL Sunday Ticket on Dish Network would be exactly like saying you want your Monday Night Football from UPN.

The NFL has entered into many exclusive arrangements. The NFL has contracted with:

FOX for the NFC package
CBS for the AFC package
ESPN for the Sunday Night Football package
ABC for the Monday Night Football package
DirecTV for the Sunday Ticket package

If there is anyone to blame, it is the NFL.


> So i got the bigger bargan.


Not if you want NFL Sunday Ticket.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

I cannot complain to Encore and IFC networks that directv tv is scamming their pricing to recive these networks.Id like congress pass a bill called network fraud which means if they charge you too much that that channel is worth,Then mr murdock would be in a cell with a guy named bubba.Its the same thing scalping tickets.Suppose i charge a miami dolphin fan 2 tickets at $200 for a game vs New York Jets in miami.Then the pigs would bust me scalping tickets and then ill be put in a cell with a guy named bubba.So i think fair is fair.


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## DJSix (Jan 19, 2004)

Steveox said:


> Add em up to TOTAL CHOICE PLUS,And what you get? 42.99 plus 12.00 plus 11.00 and plus 10.00 and 9.99 TIVO Service that adds up to around $81 PLUS LIBERAL STATE TAX and thats over $90.00.On Dish network i get americas top 180 $49.99 which includes TMC.IFC ENCORE And sports channels.Plus i added HBO & MAX that comes out $61 add liberal sales tax thats about $71 So thats like a $20 savings.Plus i get more than direct tv can offer!So i got the bigger bargan.


There's a few things wrong with this:

1) Tivo service is only $4.99/month...and the nice thing is, that's per household. Want 4 dvr's through D*? Only one charge of $4.99/month for the dvr service.

2) If you're going to quote the price for TCP @ $42.99, that means you're including locals, so quote the price of $66.99 for T180 w/locals, HBO, and Cinemax.

3) With T180 you get your RSN, but if you want all the rsn's E* has to offer, it's an additional $5.99/month.

4) Learn to use a calculator.....

a) TCP w/locals(42.99) + HBO(12.00) + Showtime(11.00) + Sports Pack(10.00) + DVR(4.99) + Tax(10.00) = $90.98

b) T180 w/locals, HBO, and Cinemax(66.99) + Sports Pack(5.99) + DVR(4.99) + Tax(10.00) = $87.97

Not quite $20....

5) Lastly, "getting more" is purely subjective. With the sports pack you're not getting Fox Sports World, FS West, FS West 2, Yes Network, College Sports Television, Fuel, and NFL Network. Are you getting Trio? No? But you are getting education channels from Univ of Washington, Northern Arizona Univ, and Univ of California. Are you getting Fine Living? No? But you are getting shopping channels like TV Outlet Mall, Auction TV, and Catalog TV.

Finally....

There was a reason I left E* after 6 years, maybe I should go back for all the shopping and PI channels I'm missing by having D*?


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

DJSix said:


> a) TCP w/locals(42.99) + HBO(12.00) + Showtime(11.00) + Sports Pack(10.00) + DVR(4.99) + Tax(10.00) = $90.98


My only complaint with DirecTV pricing is that (assuming no other premium services) I think $12 is a bit steep for the Sports Pack. if I were D* I'd move a few of the channels (Fuel, FSW, Golf Channel) to TC+, and then drop the cost of the Sports Pack to $6 to compete with E*.

This (and no Style Channel for the wife) are the only negatives I can find with jumping to D* when my Dish commitment expires at the end of the year.


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## mainedish (Mar 25, 2003)

Directv earns every penny they get from me. I want my equipment to work and it does. Dish will never get the NFL as long as Charlie Ergen runs the company.


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## DJSix (Jan 19, 2004)

jrbdmb said:


> My only complaint with DirecTV pricing is that (assuming no other premium services) I think $12 is a bit steep for the Sports Pack. if I were D* I'd move a few of the channels (Fuel, FSW, Golf Channel) to TC+, and then drop the cost of the Sports Pack to $6 to compete with E*.
> 
> This (and no Style Channel for the wife) are the only negatives I can find with jumping to D* when my Dish commitment expires at the end of the year.


I should have mentioned that Fuel is a part of the sports pack, but also you get it with TC+ or above. As for the "possible" cost of the package, it's hard to know if I would pay $12 for it. I do like the fact that during hockey season, I can watch the Red Wings Pregame, Postgame, and Red Wings Weekly on FS Detroit. Since my wife and I wanted all the premium movie services, paying just $7 is well worth it.

As for the Style channel...with the new sat up in the air..freeing up space..who knows what channels may be added...Keep your eyes open


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

mainedish said:


> Directv earns every penny they get from me. I want my equipment to work and it does. Dish will never get the NFL as long as Charlie Ergen runs the company.


I seem to remember the statement:

Dish will never get the NHL as long as Charlie Ergen runs the company.

They did.

Dish will never get the NBA as long as Charlie Ergen runs the company

They did.

Dish will never get the MLB as long as Charlie Ergen runs the company

They did.

Along with MLS, Full Court, Game Plan, World Primier Soccer, Cricket and all sorts of other sports and pseudo-sports (WWE, and the like).

Dish has never had the oportunity to even bid on the NFL. That's why it isn't on Dish. DirecTV bought exclusive rights to the NFL before Dish existed. The exclusive rights DirecTV bough include the right of first refusal which means as long a DirecTV pays the asking price, Dish is frozen out.

Now please lets stop the VENOM against Dish or DirecTV and stick to the subject.

See ya
Tony


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Charlie is doing a hellve lot better than direct tv is doing.All direct tv CEOs are thinking about is getting your money!and make sure your wallet runs dry.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

What color is the sky in your world?


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

Steveox said:


> Charlie is doing a hellve lot better than direct tv is doing.All direct tv CEOs are thinking about is getting your money!and make sure your wallet runs dry.


Yes, I also applaud Charlie the humanitarian, who has no interest in profits but only wants to provide TV at low cost to the masses. 
:icon_stup


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

SamC said:


> What color is the sky in your world?


In Steveox's case its Dish Kool-aid (Pick your flavor) :lol:


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> In Steveox's case its Dish Kool-aid (Pick your flavor) :lol:


Ill take strawberry. !pepsi!


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Charlie should take direct tv to court if necessary take them to the surpreme court.And sue mr murdock illeagal monopoly by direct tv.Being exclusive rights to NFL sunday ticket is illegal.Look How come is it ok for the NFL monopolize 4 networks and NBA and Baseball cant do that? NFL has ABC,CBS,FOX and ESPN.So If the NFL can monopolize so can satellite companies.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Steveox said:


> Charlie should take direct tv to court if necessary take them to the surpreme court.And sue mr murdock illeagal monopoly by direct tv.Being exclusive rights to NFL sunday ticket is illegal.Look How come is it ok for the NFL monopolize 4 networks and NBA and Baseball cant do that? NFL has ABC,CBS,FOX and ESPN.So If the NFL can monopolize so can satellite
> companies.


The NFL held a competition for the right to carry their Sunday Ticket programming bu offereing a better bid. DirecTV won. That is not illegal. It si true that DirecTV originally bought the rights before DISH existed. But that is not illegal. And that deal expired. They are under a different contract now.

The NFL held simialr competitions for the rights to Monday Night, Sunday Night , AFC, and NFC games. In all cases the highest bidder won.

How is the NFL "monopolizing" four networks? Do you know what the term means? thsy have programming on those particular networks. So what? You have posts in different forums. Neither is illegal.

If DISH or anyone else had been interested in the Sunday Ticket package they could have bid higher. They did not. You can file a law suit about anything but this one would be frivolous.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> The NFL held a competition for the right to carry their Sunday Ticket programming bu offereing a better bid. DirecTV won. That is not illegal. It si true that DirecTV originally bought the rights before DISH existed. But that is not illegal. And that deal expired. They are under a different contract now.
> 
> The NFL held simialr competitions for the rights to Monday Night, Sunday Night , AFC, and NFC games. In all cases the highest bidder won.
> 
> ...


Then Explain why Both Satelites have.
NBA League Pass.
NHL center Ice
MLB Extra Innings
ESPN Game Plan
ESPN Full Court

But Only Direct Tv can have NFL Sunday Ticket.
That sounds like discrimination to me.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Steve you did not respond to ANYTHING in my post. Not a single thing. As for your question------I answered it already. They paid top dollar for the right to have it exclusively. Like FOX has the impsons, Like NBC had Friends and Frasier. 

DISH had every opportunity to win the package but they lost. There is nothing unfair, ilegal, or discriminatory about that. And the term monopoly is simply out of place.


Sheeeeeesh


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> Steve you did not respond to ANYTHING in my post. Not a single thing. As for your question------I answered it already. They paid top dollar for the right to have it exclusively. Like FOX has the impsons, Like NBC had Friends and Frasier.
> 
> DISH had every opportunity to win the package but they lost. There is nothing unfair, ilegal, or discriminatory about that. And the term monopoly is simply out of place.
> 
> Sheeeeeesh


Sure i did.NFL airs its games on too many networks thats "monopolizing"


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Sorry Steverino but you can look up the word monopolizing. It has nothing to do with that. But, if the problem is that they are already on in too many places wouldn't it be worse if they were on DISH as well? 

Exactly what is your objection? is it that it woudl be great if they were on DISH but since their not they should not be on at all?


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> Sorry Steverino but you can look up the word monopolizing. It has nothing to do with that. But, if the problem is that they are already on in too many places wouldn't it be worse if they were on DISH as well?
> 
> Exactly what is your objection? is it that it woudl be great if they were on DISH but since their not they should not be on at all?


If the NFL was on dish id would be saving than spending on direct tv.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

That is an entirely different argument Stevie-doo.

Are you willing to concede that the earlier ones were bogus. If so then we can deal with this one. Of course since the reason theyare NOT on DISH is that DISH did not want to spend the money maybe you would actually be paying MORE money if they were on DISH.

:grin: :lol:


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> That is an entirely different argument Stevie-doo.
> 
> Are you willing to concede that the earlier ones were bogus. If so then we can deal with this one. Of course since the reason theyare NOT on DISH is that DISH did not want to spend the money maybe you would actually be paying MORE money if they were on DISH.
> 
> :grin: :lol:


What choice do i have?I love movies but i aint paying $90 a month for it.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Direc Tv is the exclusive Satellite TV home of NFL Sunday Ticket and to that fella who switched to Dish network thinking he'd get Sunday Ticket there, he did not do his homework. Direc Tv has 1st Dibbs at The Ticket and I hope that they never give up that exclusivity agreement. Since 1997 I haven't watched any football game on any other system but my Direc Tv System (Unless I was away from home) The Picture Quality on Direc Tv for the Sunday Ticket package is second to none. If you're an N.F.L. Fan Direc Tv is definately the way to go.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

This is the second contract. There are two more years of exclusivity. Then there is a two year window in which D* will have a satellite exclusive but the games can possibly be sold to cable. 

As all of these threads show each service has advantages. It used to be that DISH was always a few $ cheaper. Now they are close and the price advantage can swing either way. But the fact is that D* has an exclusive because they paid for it. We can vent our spleens all we want but E* is not getting Sunday Ticket anytime soon and posting here won't change that---and you can't say it is "unfair" that your service does not have everything the other service has. It is not a question of fairness.

You do by the way have a choice. You have a choice between DirecTV and DISH. You made the choice but you are dissatisfied. But there is no guarantee in life that we will have all the choices we want.


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## DJSix (Jan 19, 2004)

Steveox said:


> Charlie is doing a hellve lot better than direct tv is doing.All direct tv CEOs are thinking about is getting your money!and make sure your wallet runs dry.


Do you seriously believe that? If so, then how come D* subscribers are getting HD-IRD's at $99? How is it some sub's are getting TC Premier at $70.99 for 6 months or any one of the premiums packages for $2/month for 6 months? Why waive the DVR service fee if you have TC Premier. Hell, if you're spending $90.99, what's another $4.99? If Murdoch was truly just about robbing us blind, how come over in the UK, he pretty much put a dvr in every home through Sky? And he has stated he just may do the same over here (from DVR Deployments - The End of The Beginning?):



> Speaking at a Morgan Stanley conference last week ( as reported by Reuters via ZDNet UK), Rupert Murdoch predicted that within a year, every new DBS subscriber in the US will get free or very low cost DVR receivers with free DVR service, as part of the satellite industry's drive to take customers away from cable.
> 
> (Quoting Murdoch - "Within a year, every new home will be getting either [a] ...free PVR or one for nominal amounts of money, with no subscription fee at the other end.")


Of course the big question is...seeing how you didn't respond to my first post, will you respond to this one? :lol:


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## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

Steveox said:


> Then Explain why Both Satelites have.
> NBA League Pass.
> NHL center Ice
> MLB Extra Innings
> ...


Because the leagues that set them up (or ESPN in the GP and FC case) didn't offer/require exclusivity. During the NFL / DTV negotiations one of them wanted exclusivity. Pretty much anything can be done during negotations between two companies, good, bad or indifferent.

Plus, there is nothing wrong with discrimination in and of itself. In the morning, do you drink coffee, milk or orange juice. You have "discriminated" against the other two. It's only when discrimination is applied to something we like by others that it becomes a problem (i.e. race, gender, sexual orientation, NFL ST...)

If you want Sunday Ticket so bad, put back up your DTV dish and order it and nothing else. Keep your programming from Dish.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I think that he is disscriminating against DirecTV. That iis a monopoly. DirecTV shoudl tae him to ciurt adn MAKE him buy their service.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Ray_Clum said:


> Because the leagues that set them up (or ESPN in the GP and FC case) didn't offer/require exclusivity. During the NFL / DTV negotiations one of them wanted exclusivity. Pretty much anything can be done during negotations between two companies, good, bad or indifferent.
> 
> Plus, there is nothing wrong with discrimination in and of itself. In the morning, do you drink coffee, milk or orange juice. You have "discriminated" against the other two. It's only when discrimination is applied to something we like by others that it becomes a problem (i.e. race, gender, sexual orientation, NFL ST...)
> 
> If you want Sunday Ticket so bad, put back up your DTV dish and order it and nothing else. Keep your programming from Dish.


They said i cant do that.In order to keep NFL sunday ticket I must order any direct tv packages.I cant order sunday ticket on a solo basics.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> I think that he is disscriminating against DirecTV. That iis a monopoly. DirecTV shoudl tae him to ciurt adn MAKE him buy their service.


Hands getting tired ? :grin:


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Steveox said:


> They said i cant do that.In order to keep NFL sunday ticket I must order any direct tv packages.I cant order sunday ticket on a solo basics.


Looks like you made a mistake by leaving Directv.

Hope you are enjoying those movies during football season.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Nope. But I have to admit that I have had a really busy day. I got up early and chased some UFOs. That made me hungry so I stopped to get something big to eat. Finally I discovered that I need new tires. 

I don't know when I am going to find time to file a law suit to enforce my constitutional right to watch the Kansas City Chiefs play the Raiders on the DBS system of my choice.

:grin:


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## DJSix (Jan 19, 2004)

Steveox said:


> They said i cant do that.In order to keep NFL sunday ticket I must order any direct tv packages.I cant order sunday ticket on a solo basics.


Who is "they"? Have you asked to talk to a supervisor? If D* is as "money grubbing" as you claim them to be, seems to me D* would welcome you and your money back, even if you were just subscribing to NFL ST.

. o O (Will the 3rd post be the one???)


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

DJSix said:


> Who is "they"? Have you asked to talk to a supervisor? If D* is as "money grubbing" as you claim them to be, seems to me D* would welcome you and your money back, even if you were just subscribing to NFL ST.
> 
> . o O (Will the 3rd post be the one???)


You can no longer order just NFLST. You must have a base package.


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## mainedish (Mar 25, 2003)

One thing I like about the new owners of Directv is the way Rupert Murdoch lets others who know how to run a company continue to run it. He wants to know what's going on but he also has the brains to hire good people . You will continue to see great things coming to directv while Charlie Egren continues to cry over split milk.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

mainedish said:


> One thing I like about the new owners of Directv is the way Rupert Murcoch lets others who know how to run a company continue to run it. He wants to know what's going on but he also has the brains to hire good people . You will continue to see great things coming to directv while Charlie Egren continues to cry over split milk.


I think Charlie should hire two of these guys to file a lawsuit against direct tv.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Steveox said:


> I think Charlie should hire two of these guys to file a lawsuit against direct tv.


Charlie's too busy trying to fight the TiVo lawsuit. He's going to have to pay big time if he losses this one.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

What would be the basis of this lawsuit? They had a chance to bid but lost it. I notice that the two gentlemen you think should handle the lawsuit have written books. Are these books published by every publisher in the United States or did particular publishing houses pay them for the EXCLUSIVE right to publish it? Heck why stop at DISH. Why aren't you upset that the games arent available OTA?


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

Curtis0620 said:


> Charlie's too busy trying to fight the TiVo lawsuit. He's going to have to pay big time if he losses this one.


Why Sue Tivo? If we have DVR! He really should sue direct tv for sports monopoly.Remember there was a football league called the USFL? They tried to sue the NFL for monopolizing 3 networks back then.In 1986 the USFL wanted switch the season to the fall but they cannot be successful without TV coverage.No network would sign on the the USFL because ABC,NBC And CBS had contracts to the NFL.So if the USFL can bring a case like that why not charlie?


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Dish Network has filed a lawsuit against DirecTV regarding Sunday Ticket. All claims were dropped when Dish Network tried to purchase DirecTV.

Steveox, you really need to pay attention to this: an exclusive arrangement is not a monopoly. The NFL, a private entity which can be considered a monopoly, has entered into an exclusive agreement with DirecTV which nets the NFL $2 billion over five years. The only reason the NFL wants this $2 billion from DirecTV is because the NFL will make less than $2 billion over five years if they offer Sunday Ticket to every multichannel provider.

Exclusivity is also why the ABC/ESPN package is so expensive. ABC and ESPN get to broadcast the only NFL games with no other NFL competition.

If Dish Network needed to sue anyone, it should be the NFL for entering into an exclusive arrangement with DirecTV.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

NO. The USFL was on ABC. They did indeed sue the NFL for violating antitrust laws. In fact they won their suit. Unfortunately they were awarded a grand total of $1.00 in damages. Under antitrust law this was trebled and the eight teams got to split $3.00.

But as usual your logic is convoluted. The USFL sued the NFL. You want DISH to sue DirecTV and you say it is because they executed a contract for exclusive coverage of the NFL. Again what is the basis for such a suit and how does the USFL suit relate to this?

Besides if that lawsuit was based (partially) on the NFL beong on TOO MANY NETWORKS than it argues against you. You want them to sign yet another contract with another outlet which is the exact opposite of what the USFL wanted. 


DISH BTW is a DEFENDANT in the Tivo lawsuit.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

No, TiVo is suing Dishnetwork for Patent infringement. 

BTW, the USFL won their lawsuit. They got $1.


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

But I think NFL sunday ticket should be on all satellites.So let the people choose which satellite they want.Direct Tv was charging me an arm & a leg so i had to sign off with them.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

It is hard to tell what you think since much of what you cite is contradictory. But the NFL sold it exclusively to DTV. That is the way it is. We know you want it on DISH but one of the disappointing things about life is that we do not always get an opportunity to get what we want.


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## dummyproof (Jan 30, 2004)

_"Dummyproof runs around handing out pillows to all those that are banging their head against the wall from trying to make sense out of Steveo's argument"_


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

All im doing is making a case that direct tv rips off people like me because the movies channels are not in the right place.Theres no way Encore,TMC and Sportspack are premium channels.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

If the thread is about that why is it in the sports forum? Perhaps it belongs under DirecTV Discussion if that is the case. Silly me. I don't know why I thought it was about why only one DBS service has the right to NFL Sunday ticket. Maybe it was the title of the thread.

You have decided---rater arbitrarily what "ought" to be offered and you ar e mad at a business for not offereing it to you exactly that way. You even claim to be contemplating legal action over the fact that they choose to package their services differently.


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## DJSix (Jan 19, 2004)

Steveox said:


> All im doing is making a case that direct tv rips off people like me because the movies channels are not in the right place.Theres no way Encore,TMC and Sportspack are premium channels.


Your case is very weak, the way I see it. You're whining more than proving your "case". If you claim that Encore, TMC, and the Sports Pack are not premiums, how come E* treats them as such. Granted you get Encore and TMC with 180, you have to add them as premium services if you have 60 or 120. Want the east feeds of TMC or TMC Xtra...or Encore WAM? They'll all yours if you have 180. If you have 60 or 120...sorry...you're out of luck.

What's more important to you...having Encore, TMC and a cheap Sports Pack...or NFL Sunday Ticket? It's one or the other, because at this point in time, you're not getting both? Make your choice....


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