# Please fix the guide for NTGHD



## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

If anyone from Dish reads here. Puhleeze fix the guide on 9426 so we can schedule recordings properly and also set uptimers.


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## Mark Strube (May 10, 2006)

This has already been covered in another thread... just email them yourself.


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

Can I see your badge Mr. Internet Policeman?

I know it was mentioned in another thread. I started a new thread so as to not totally pull the other thread off topic. And, Mr. Internet Policeman, you'll notice that I commented in same aforementioned thread before I made this thread. So you informing me of the other thread is a moot point.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

I commented on this in the other thread, but I think the issue is most definitely worthy of it's own thread. I've got the Premium package and will continue to get NG HD after the free preview. The guide information should be there. If Dish wants a free preview without guide information for those without a qualifying package, they should put NGHD without the guide on a separate channel and make the channel with guide information available to those with a qualifying package.


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

Can I get an 'AMEN' ?


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## Mark Strube (May 10, 2006)

Oh chill out ziggy. :lol:


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## bobr (Mar 23, 2002)

ZigSteenine said:


> Can I get an 'AMEN' ?


*AMEN*


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* is trying to catch people's eyes with the "free preview" as the EPG show title. If it were just the program names people might assume that it was just another channel in their package and be caught unaware when NTGHD went to Gold/Platinum only.

Or, in other words, they are doing this to get attention. 

It isn't broken, it is that way by design. The proper program information will appear when E* decides to change the EPG back to normal.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Program info is available by viewing guide for channel 186.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

garys said:


> Program info is available by viewing guide for channel 186.


True, but it's very inconvenient, especially for another month. I understand Dish's motivation to do this. But it's unfair to those that have the gold or platinum package and therefore are fully qualified to receive this package when the "preview" is over. If Dish wants to do this, they should add another channel temporarily for NG HD with no guide information that would appear for those customers with packages below gold. Those with gold or platinum would "see" the regular channel with full guide information. The temp channel would only be needed for a month.

It would be no different if during an HBO or Showtime preview, the HD channel had no guide information and you were forced to go elsewhere for the programming guide. Do you think this would be easily accepted?


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

Jerry G said:


> True, but it's very inconvenient, especially for another month. I understand Dish's motivation to do this. But it's unfair to those that have the gold or platinum package and therefore are fully qualified to receive this package when the "preview" is over. If Dish wants to do this, they should add another channel temporarily for NG HD with no guide information that would appear for those customers with packages below gold. Those with gold or platinum would "see" the regular channel with full guide information. The temp channel would only be needed for a month.
> 
> It would be no different if during an HBO or Showtime preview, the HD channel had no guide information and you were forced to go elsewhere for the programming guide. Do you think this would be easily accepted?


AGREED i pay for a guide also.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

U can look at almost all of the programs for dish on Titan TV, Make your on favs etc.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

whatchel1 said:


> U can look at almost all of the programs for dish on Titan TV, Make your on favs etc.


So you really don't mind paying over 105$ a month and not getting a guide?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

BlackHitachi said:


> So you really don't mind paying over 105$ a month and not getting a guide?


It's only 1 channel that we are being teasted with they do this whenever they are teasing us to buy somthing new. Life is too short to cry about minor things. It's sure easier for me to look at Titan TV to plan advance recording than scroll thru many pages of programs on the Dish screen that is displayed.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

whatchel1 said:


> It's only 1 channel that we are being teasted with they do this whenever they are teasing us to buy somthing new. Life is too short to cry about minor things. It's sure easier for me to look at Titan TV to plan advance recording than scroll thru many pages of programs on the Dish screen that is displayed.


Yea you are right it is easy to look at titian or zap2it heck even dishnetwork has a guide. You are also right that life goes on but the simple fact is there should be guide info not freeview. Makes NBR hard.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Jerry G said:


> If Dish wants a free preview without guide information for those without a qualifying package, they should put NGHD without the guide on a separate channel and make the channel with guide information available to those with a qualifying package.


Sounds like the left hand forgot to tell the right hand about the Preview Showroom in the 290 range. Or the right hand didn't read the memo. SNAFU


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## SingleAction (Apr 29, 2005)

It's the same old story!

Just being nickel and dimed to death, after spending over a hundred bucks a month to get "one" more channel for ten bucks!(upgrade to gold from silver)! Give me a break:eek2: 

I'm looking forward to " ALA CARTE" programming:lol:


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

whatchel1 said:


> Life is too short to cry about minor things. It's sure easier for me to look at Titan TV to plan advance recording than scroll thru many pages of programs on the Dish screen that is displayed.


That's a terrific philosophy. And yes, compared to many other things, the lack of guide info is fairly minor. But using that approach would suggest that the vast majority of posts on these forums are also not worth posting. You see, it's all relative. And here, we're discussing Dish issues and not the devastation in Africa and how we put our kids though college.

Having Titan is irrelevant. One of the reasons that guide exists is so that when I sit down to relax for an hour and watch something on TV, I should be able to use the guide to find something I want to watch. I shouldn't have to get up and go to my computer to look up Titan's web page. And I don't want to flip to the SD channel to see what's on. And if I want to record a show on NGC HD, I'd like the convenience of not having to set a manual timer. Doing this for one week may not be so bad. But for over a month, and I'm paying for a premium package? No thanks, Charlie.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> Doing this for one week may not be so bad. But for over a month,


At this point the channel hasn't been up a week so it's all just speculation that the special EPG will be that way all month.

Get a grip. It isn't the end of the world.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

James Long said:


> At this point the channel hasn't been up a week so it's all just speculation that the special EPG will be that way all month.
> 
> Get a grip. It isn't the end of the world.


Well said!


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> At this point the channel hasn't been up a week so it's all just speculation that the special EPG will be that way all month.
> 
> Get a grip. It isn't the end of the world.


It is for Dish folks, one more proof that Dish no longer cares for its members.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> It is for Dish folks, one more proof that Dish no longer cares for its members.


DISH offers a free preview of a channel and THAT means that they don't care for their subscribers (members)? I don't understand that. Could you please explain.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Bill R said:


> DISH offers a free preview of a channel and THAT means that they don't care for their subscribers (members)? I don't understand that. Could you please explain.


 Please read the title of this tread. Dish does not provide a lisitng on the program guide of what is on NGHD. They could have offered a free preview channels for members who are not Dish HD gold and above and one for members who are Dish HD and above with the full listing. If you read the Information dish provides it clearly states that for one month their will be no program listings and to go to their web site to get what is on NGHD.


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## pdxsam (Jun 20, 2004)

tomcrown1 said:


> If you read the Information dish provides it clearly states that for one month their will be no program listings and to go to their web site to get what is on NGHD.


If you want to record something on HTGHD in your recordings all you see is "Free Preview" if you record more than one you get more than one "Free Preview".

Having to remember what you recorded and when 6 weeks from now (if they last that long) would be a royal pain.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

Most of it is not HD anyway. Why record it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Obviously a case of Marketing coming up with an idea they thought would be good at the time. Personally if they went this way they should have not announced what packages it was going to be in and that way they would prevented the backlash from the packages who already have the package. I am sure Dish saw this period as both a preview and a roll out. 

Yes they could of went with the two channels (one preview and one for the package), but there might have been reason sagainst doing it or they just felt doing both in one for the first month made sense. Do they create a seperate preview channel for HBO HD and Show HD during the preview periods? Not sure and really does not make a huge difference in this topic, but something to consider. 

I understand the arguments coming from the people that already have the package and want to record the content. Personally when ever I see content being added I think it is a good thing and I also understand Dish wanted to highlight free preview to try and get people to upsubscribe. I know in the past they have created a set of channels to do the preview for HBO and Show, but those are a group of channels and not a one/two type of thing. 

What I consider here is that this an introduction to a channel not a preview of an existing channel. I would be much more annoyed if it was done after the channel had been up for a year rather than upon its introduction. 

Well that is my 2 cents. And I am sure the channel will still be here in a month.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tomcrown1 said:


> It is for Dish folks, one more proof that Dish no longer cares for its members.


More accurately "for anti-Dish folks it is another thing to complain about". Having a special EPG is a sign of not caring? How about they just not add the content at all? To heck with the customers, they are making enough without investing in new content for a bunch of whiners. Boo hoo! 

It isn't "the Dish folks" that are complaining ... Dish folks are people who think that it's cool that NG is available in HD and don't mind the temporary EPG.


tomcrown1 said:


> If you read the Information dish provides it clearly states that for one month their will be no program listings and to go to their web site to get what is on NGHD.


Must have missed that ... please provide a link to where E* said there would be no EPG for the full month.


pdxsam said:


> If you want to record something on HTGHD in your recordings all you see is "Free Preview" if you record more than one you get more than one "Free Preview".


The only receiver that can record this channel also has the ability to edit the titles on DVR content. I wish one could type capital letters in the second word and use the number of characters TITLE gets on an unedited recording, but there is an edit option.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

jerryez said:


> Most of it is not HD anyway. Why record it.


One of the things that were briefly there before they completely cut off the guide info was info on which broadcasts were actually in HD.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> At this point the channel hasn't been up a week so it's all just speculation that the special EPG will be that way all month.
> 
> Get a grip. It isn't the end of the world.


Should we believe you would be ok with DISH doing the same Guide Listing for every channel above the TOP 60 in a FREE PREVIEW of TOP 180 ???

I hate all the DISH bashing that happens on these forums, but what I hate worst is the pathetic defenses of legitimate concerns.

Why are they listing the FREE PREVIEW channels in the 280's like they should be ?
The fact is they are denying the Gold subscribers the guide info for this channel.

I was going to up my silver to gold just for the correct guide. Now I will at least wait till 7/7 but probably wait till they have less SD.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

dslate69 said:


> I hate all the DISH bashing that happens on these forums, but what I hate worst is the pathetic defenses of legitimate concerns.


So very true. Those who already pay for the Gold or Premium packages have a very legitimate complaint/concern. To bash us for our concerns and lump us in with the "Dish bashers" is unfair and not appreciated at all. I'm very disappointed to see this and to see what appears to be a very blind support of Dish in all matters. It simply diminishes credibility and a sense of fair play on the part of some. Sorry, but that's how I see it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dslate69 said:


> Should we believe you would be ok with DISH doing the same Guide Listing for every channel above the TOP 60 in a FREE PREVIEW of TOP 180 ???


Strawman argument ... E* didn't remove the EPG for all the channels above AT60 ... they temporarily removed the EPG for ONE CHANNEL nobody had on their receiver before Friday.

ONE new channel - Keep the perspective.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> Strawman argument ... E* didn't remove the EPG for all the channels above AT60 ... they temporarily removed the EPG for ONE CHANNEL nobody had on their receiver before Friday.
> 
> ONE new channel - Keep the perspective.


Is the NG-HD channel active or not ? The answer is yes, Charlie will be promoting it tonight. It doesn't matter if anyone had it before or not. It is NOW a Gold and above channel. I am not making the same argument for Silver and below, although they aren't making me want to tune to it since nothing is grabing my attention in the guide.
You think it is ok to handicap 1 channel in order to promote it. So answer the question.

Would it be ok for DISH to do the same Guide Listing for every channel above the TOP 60 in a FREE PREVIEW of TOP 180 ???


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

James Long said:


> ONE new channel - Keep the perspective.


Yup. And the perspective should be on Dish's end. For those with the gold and premium packages, there should be a guide. That's the perspective I see as someone paying Dish $110 a month for their programming. If the channel isn't worth the guide for the gold and premium subs, it ain't worth anything. I can't believe that Dish is so bandwidth starved, that they can't add a guideless version of this channel for a month for those without the gold and premium packages.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Even though I am not James.. I felt the need to comment. 

Jerry.... I see your question as apples and oranges in both quantitiy of channels and also circumstances. The answer to your question of course would be NO, but I personally don't see the relevence in introducing a new channel vs. the preview of a whole section of channels that have been around for a while. Two different type of scenarious in my book. Same would go with doing this to an HBO or Showtime preview. Would totally be bad form. 

Like I stated in my previous post. I understand not being happy with how they rolled it out. However, one could argue that the common person would be more apt to dive into a channel marked as "Free Preview" vs. one showing the actually contents. I know this does nothing for people who already subscribe to the package, but from the other side of the fence one of the purposes of placing this particular channel into the higher tier is to try and get some upsales. On the upside, people who already getting the package are getting the added benefit of one additional HD channel they did not have a week ago. 

The decision that E* made definitely makes it hard on the people who already subscribe to the channel to use their DVR features until the GUIDE becomes available. However, I do see this as a roll out and as such it looks like they want to get some bang for their buck. 

Basically how I see it, they are previewing it to everyone for a month and then after that, it goes into the package and people with the lower tiers will have to get the higher package to continue viewing. With the way they are rolling it out, that is how it should have been communicated and obviously was not. 

I don't think rolling this channel out this way is some evil plan to inflict pain, in my opinion they did a bad job communicating the details so that people with the package understand the plan. 

Well hopefully some Marketing cat over at E* is reading this thread and they will improve next time they roll out a new HD channel to avoid upsetting existing customers.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

Tinman argument.... ???
So because it is only one channel it is ok. Would two be ok ? How 'bout three ?
Because it is a new channel it is ok. How 'bout a new Tier ? 

So if they did it for all the new HD channels that would be ok (that is a group of channels). So if DISH creates a New TIER like the Family Tier they can promote the channels the same way.

Are we still talking Apples and Apples now ???

The thing is, they don't have to broadcast another HD signal. They just have to link to the one signal with different guide info. So there is no bandwidth savings or any other Logical reason. They could change the color to draw attention to it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dslate69 said:


> They could change the color to draw attention to it.


Really? Are you sure? You you know for absolute certain that the ViP receivers have a feature built in where they can highlight a channel?

If not having an EPG for this channel is the worst thing that E* has ever done then they are doing pretty good. E* wanted people to notice the new channel and it certainly worked - you noticed. One thing for sure, I saw NTGHD in the guide before I noticed the other new channels. That word FREE really pops out - and the proof of that is in this thread. You noticed the channel.

I do like the idea of a second channel for the free preview version (9428?). Perhaps if that were calmly suggested earlier it would have gone over better. The Dish bashing really has sent this thread downhill fast.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually I did not think we were talking Apples and Apples. Apples and Apples in my book would be one new channel launch compared to another. I am not saying that people having the package already should not be annoid with having no guide info during the introduction of this channel. I piped in to give my take and and at this point.. best just to agree to disagree. 

As for linking without guide and not having to add additional bandwidth would have been a good way to go if actually possible. Question is.. is it doable? I don't have any insight into the circumstances to comment so I am not sure if it would have been.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> Really? Are you sure? You you know for absolute certain that the ViP receivers have a feature built in where they can highlight a channel?
> 
> If not having an EPG for this channel is the worst thing that E* has ever done then they are doing pretty good. E* wanted people to notice the new channel and it certainly worked - you noticed. One thing for sure, I saw NTGHD in the guide before I noticed the other new channels. That word FREE really pops out - and the proof of that is in this thread. You noticed the channel.
> 
> I do like the idea of a second channel for the free preview version (9428?). Perhaps if that were calmly suggested earlier it would have gone over better. The Dish bashing really has sent this thread downhill fast.


YES, I know it for sure. Have not seen the different colors of the OTA Locals, Favorites or the Unsubscribed channels ? And here I was thinking you were some kind of DISH expert.
I think if bashing is the right word it is not of DISH but the decision and of course now more directed at the Kool-Aid Drinkers. By the way you have a purple mustache.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> As for linking without guide and not having to add additional bandwidth would have been a good way to go if actually possible. Question is.. is it doable? I don't have any insight into the circumstances to comment so I am not sure if it would have been.


9428 is HD PPV on 148°. 9430 is ShowHD on 148°. The best place for a mirror channel would be right next to the real thing at 9429 (then you would see "free preview" and the real channel side by side). The best they could do is 9431 (not bad for most viewers).

Doable? Practically trivial - and done when UniHD was offered to all on 9426 during the Olympics (and DishHD only folks on 9427). Bandwidth required - negligible.


dslate69 said:


> YES, I know it for sure. Have not seen the different colors of the OTA Locals, Favorites or the Unsubscribed channels ? And here I was thinking you were some kind of DISH expert.
> I think if bashing is the right word it is not of DISH but the decision and of course now more directed at the Kool-Aid Drinkers. By the way you have a purple mustache.


Not an accurate comparison. OTAs are a different class of channel ... not just another channel with a special color. Red for unsubed has been common on receivers for a while. Favorites are NOT colored differently than other channels, the program highlight changes colors but not the channel tabs.

Personal attacks are off topic at all times. Discuss the issue please.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> ... best just to agree to disagree.
> 
> As for linking without guide and not having to add additional bandwidth would have been a good way to go if actually possible. Question is.. is it doable? I don't have any insight into the circumstances to comment so I am not sure if it would have been.


Agree to disagree on guide info. 

As for the Linking more than one guide channel to the same signal; that is what they are doing now with the Free Preview in the 280's.
Tune to the "We" channel on 128 and then go to Point Dish. Note: SAT 119 TP 12
Do the same for the Free location on 284. Note: SAT 119 TP 12
Try it for all the Free channels they all match up except for the Guide Info. These channels draw attention that they are temporary inside the Show Info.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

This back and forth is gettting boring. It is quite evident that neither side is going to convert the other to their point of view. So stick to the topic and agree to disagree. The fact is E* has decided to do it this way & I doubt gripping in this forum is going to make 1 Iota of difference. You can gripe at E* & it mite help but not real sure that will do much good on something this minor.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> ... OTAs are a different class of channel ... not just another channel with a special color. Red for unsubed has been common on receivers for a while. Favorites are NOT colored differently than other channels, the program highlight changes colors but not the channel tabs.
> 
> Personal attacks are off topic at all times. Discuss the issue please.


Sorry if you took being a Kool-Aid drinker as a personal attack. It's not meant to be and You are. 
I defend DISH vehemently on other forums so maybe I am Kool-Aid drinker also. 
We just differ in how much we slosh when we walk. 

I concede to you. If I haven't won this argument by now which is so obvious to me. I don't deserve to continue.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

Well i get the Platinum pak, playboy, the supers two distant's and dish insurance. When my wife's aunts visit i also get dish Latino. So you could say i am a dish supporter. It also upsets me that i am linked into a dish basher. I do also agree we disagree. Ron Barry thank you for a true and Mature answer.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> ... Perhaps if that were calmly suggested earlier it would have gone over better. The Dish bashing really has sent this thread downhill fast.


This is the First post in the Thread by ZigSteenine

>>>Please fix the guide for NTGHD 
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>If anyone from Dish reads here. Puhleeze fix the guide on 9426 so we can schedule recordings properly and also set uptimers.

In the future how should something be suggested any more calmly than this. Maybe if he said "Please" twice ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> It isn't broken, it is that way by design. The proper program information will appear when E* decides to change the EPG back to normal.


The thread started out with more discussion about the poster than the topic before that nugget of information could be added - It wasn't until last night at 9:22pm ET that a second channel was suggested - three days after the thread started.

A solution that would serve E*'s needs to promote the channel as well as their Gold/Platinum customer's desire to see the EPG without referencing another channel. A solution, not just a complaint.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Jerry G was repeating the suggestion he made in posts 4 & 10 the day the thread started. Two days later in post 16 I pointed out that Dish has already devised the solution with their own Preview Showcase.

Give full guide service to paying customers and let potential customers get a sample where they're getting accustomed to finding it.


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

James Long said:


> The thread started out with more discussion about the poster than the topic before that nugget of information could be added - It wasn't until last night at 9:22pm ET that a second channel was suggested - three days after the thread started.
> 
> A solution that would serve E*'s needs to promote the channel as well as their Gold/Platinum customer's desire to see the EPG without referencing another channel. A solution, not just a complaint.


Would everyone quit apologizing about seeming to complain? We are dishnet's customers. We have the right to complain if they are doing something that is not to our liking.

We should have no reservations about complaining and we should expect the problem to be remedied.

I didn't bring up the reasoning behind what they did with the guide. That is very apparent. It is marketing 101.

My problem is that I have been waiting with baited breath for NTGHD since they announced they were going to market the channel. VOOM was slated to add it when it came on lin but we all know how that went. Dick added it and now I can't schedule recordings and I have 6 'free preview' recordings on the hard drive. I am going to be travelling the rest of the week with other recordings scheduled (after looking to see what was on by looking at the guide for channel 186) and when I get back I will prolly have 8 recordings all with the same title and description.

Was I complaining? You damn right!!!

Was I trying to be tactful in my first post? Yes. And I was.

But you peeps that tell me no one has the right to complain are just wrong.

I have EVERY right to complain if I have a problem with something. Especially if I am paying $110 a month for it.

I try not to be an ******* but sometimes it is hard.

This guide deal is a stupid brain fart from people that have no business being in the position that they are being paid for. I take that back. If they don't realize that they had a brain fart, then they have no business being in that position. They should be given a chance to make the correction of their error.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

ZigSteenine said:


> Would everyone quit apologizing about seeming to complain? We are dishnet's customers. We have the right to complain if they are doing something that is not to our liking.
> 
> We should have no reservations about complaining and we should expect the problem to be remedied.
> 
> ...


What U are saying about complaining was not the problem. It was the way U were saying it. It seemed more like an attack than a complaint. U seemed to want to try to prove that U were right and everyone else was a A. If U had stayed on the subject and not gotten into a mode of "I'm the only one that is right here so everyone sick it where the sun don't shine. In future just relax and state your point don't turn into an attack dog. In fact this last one that U have done is more of the same.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I understand the complaints about the lack of EPG info.

However, I also understand that the channel is in free mode for a month... and it seems like every time Dish gives someone a freebie, people complain that it isn't good enough.

I just hope Dish doesn't start listening and stop giving free stuff to customers!


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> What U are saying about complaining was not the problem. It was the way U were saying it. It seemed more like an attack than a complaint. U seemed to want to try to prove that U were right and everyone else was a A. If U had stayed on the subject and not gotten into a mode of "I'm the only one that is right here so everyone sick it where the sun don't shine. In future just relax and state your point don't turn into an attack dog. In fact this last one that U have done is more of the same.


Umm. Dude. Re-read my posts. Re-read the thread. I made 2 posts besides the one you quoted above. One was asking for them to please fix the guide.

The second said "Can I get an Amen!"

You have obviously mistaken me for someone else.

There is NO way that an attack can be construed from what I posted nor did I in any way infer that I was right OR infer that everyone else should 'sick (sic) it where the sun don't shine'


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## ZigSteenine (Apr 18, 2006)

HDMe said:


> I understand the complaints about the lack of EPG info.
> 
> However, I also understand that the channel is in free mode for a month... and it seems like every time Dish gives someone a freebie, people complain that it isn't good enough.
> 
> I just hope Dish doesn't start listening and stop giving free stuff to customers!


:hurah: Don't want them to give me free stuff. Just want them to give me what I am paying for!!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobaBird said:


> Jerry G was repeating the suggestion he made in posts 4 & 10 the day the thread started.


I missed that. Guess it was drowned out by 'dish can't do anything right' posts.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok guys... this thread keeps ratholing and getting rather personally. I think we have all stated our opinions. I am going to close this one to avoid it getting out of hand. If you guys feel strongly about continuing this discussing the orginally topic, PM me and I will reopen it (But will monitor closely for personal attacks).


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