# Pull plug vs power switch reboot



## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Can someone explain what pulling the plug (hard reboot) does that holding the power switch in (soft reboot) doesn't do ?

I'm having some of the problems described in these threads (stalled in aquiring signal mode; blank screen on one tuner; some guide options greyed out; lock ups in guide) and so far all I've done are the power switch reboots. I can and will try pulling the plug but I haven't because it's so hard to get to in my entertainment center. So before I go to that trouble, I kind of wanted to understand the advantages a little better.

Thanks,


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

If you can't get to the power cord in the entertainment center, why not just flip the circuit breaker that serves that circuit off and on?


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Bichon said:


> If you can't get to the power cord in the entertainment center, why not just flip the circuit breaker that serves that circuit off and on?


As I said, I can get to it - it's just a pain - about as much as having to re setup my other equipment after flipping the circut breaker.

I was just curious about the benifits of pulling the plug on the 942 versus the power switch reset.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Don't know, however, there has been times that a soft reboot didn't fix a problem that I was having with my 301's or my 811, but doing a hard reboot did fix the problem.

Since it hard for you to pull the plug, if you are having a problem try a soft reboot first, then if the problem persist and you have no other choice go through the trouble of doing a hard reboot.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's well known fact from elecronic component world - just some registers can't be restored in initial values by soft reset; only remove power will do that.


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## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

I would suggest you get a UPS for the 942. That way you can just turn the UPS switch on and off plus is will keep recoring if have power outage. Also plug your power inverter into UPS if you use one. In addtion the UPS will give you good surge protection. I look at the 942 just as another computer. I have UPS's on all my computers, router and DSL modem. For the cheap price of an UPS, you can not beat the protection. A 350 volt would work fine for the 942.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

DRJDAN said:


> will keep recoring if have power outage. -snip- A 350 volt would work fine for the 942.


Run time with a 942 on a 350VA UPS isn't very good. Came home during a power failure today, and the 942 was already dead. According to my computer, which was still chugging away on its 800VA UPS, the power failure happened at 5:17. Current time was 5:35. I don't feel too bad about buying my Backups 350; got it on sale for less than $20, but it doesn't have the stamina to keep recording through an extended outage. If I had it to do over, I'd probably buy a beefier one.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Note that "350VA" has NOTHING to do with backup time. It's a power rating.

There are mini-UPS's that have tiny batteries and will only last through "blink" type outages. That's fine if that's what you need - like in my area - MANY "blinks" due to lightning strikes.

Other 350VA UPS's have big batteries. Check the TIME ratings of the box.


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## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

Bichon said:


> Run time with a 942 on a 350VA UPS isn't very good. Came home during a power failure today, and the 942 was already dead. According to my computer, which was still chugging away on its 800VA UPS, the power failure happened at 5:17. Current time was 5:35. I don't feel too bad about buying my Backups 350; got it on sale for less than $20, but it doesn't have the stamina to keep recording through an extended outage. If I had it to do over, I'd probably buy a beefier one.


As SimpleSimon said, the VA rating of a UPS doesn't tell you anything about how long plugged-in equipment will run in case of a power failure. You'll need to look for a rating in current x time units (like the amp-hour rating of your car battery) and then know the current consumption of your equipment to be able to figure out how long the battery can supply that much current.

Another consideration is the type of power put out by the UPS. A BackUPS is a good unit for a home computer, but it doesn't put out sine-wave power (which is what comes out of your wall outlet); it actually puts out a stepped square wave. Computer power supplies can deal with this, but that's not necessarily true of other equipment. Audio gear, in particular, to cite something that you're likely to have sitting next to your DVR, will not necessarily deal with this well.

You probably won't harm the circuitry (but you *might*), but you almost certainly will affect the sound.

An APC SmartUPS puts out sine-wave power (yeah, they're more expensive). There are lots of other brands of power-handling equipment; I tend to use TrippLite.

If you don't care about the battery-back-up capabilities a UPS provides, but you still want protection against dirty power, you could consider purchasing a power-line conditioner (I'm *not* talking about a surge protector here). Note, finally, that a line-isolation transformer is *not* the equivalent of a power conditioner.

Terry (astrotrf)


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

Thanks, astrotrf, your post is very informative.

I disagree with both you and SimpleSimon, however, that choosing a UPS with a higher VA rating will have no bearing on run time. The run time of a given UPS is highly dependent on the load connected to it. For example, according to the chart of the web site, an APC BackUPS 500CS will run for one minute with a 300 watt load, for 6 minutes with a 200 watt load, for 23 minutes with a 100 watt load, and for 56 minutes with a 50 watt load. So if you are looking for a longer run time, you can either find a different UPS model that delivers more run time at the rated load, or you can intentionally oversize the UPS, knowing that loading the larger UPS at a fraction of rated capacity will increase runtime.


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## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

Bichon said:


> I disagree with both you and SimpleSimon, however, that choosing a UPS with a higher VA rating will have no bearing on run time. The run time of a given UPS is highly dependent on the load connected to it.


No, let's be clear about this. The no-mains run time of a UPS has *nothing* to do with the VA rating. It depends entirely on how large a battery is inside the UPS. The correlation you're observing is merely an effect of the fact that UPSes with larger VA ratings tend to have larger batteries inside.

Look at it this way - if you took the battery out of a 350VA UPS and placed it into an 1150VA UPS, the run time would be precisely what it was with the 350VA UPS, given the same load.

You are correct, however, in your statement that the run-time is highly dependent on the load - there's only so much power you can stuff into a battery.

Terry (astrotrf)


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

astrotrf said:


> The correlation you're observing is merely an effect of the fact that UPSes with larger VA ratings tend to have larger batteries inside.


Yes, but it's an important correlation, given that like most consumers, I expect to buy my UPS off-the-shelf from a local retailer.



> Look at it this way - if you took the battery out of a 350VA UPS and placed it into an 1150VA UPS, the run time would be precisely what it was with the 350VA UPS, given the same load.


And if I took the battery from the 1150VA UPS and hooked it up to my 350VA model, it would give me the same run time as the 1150VA UPS. Except that the bigger battery wouldn't fit in the battery compartment, it might have a different connector, and the charger in the 350VA UPS probably wouldn't have enough output to charge it.

I'll cede the academic argument to you. But in the real world, if you want to go to the store and buy a UPS that will keep your 942 recording through a 60 or a 90 minute outage, you aren't going to find a 350VA model up to the task. If I'm wrong, please provide a manufacturer and model.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Yes, it's true that you won't find a 350VA that will run a DVR for over an hour, but you CAN find 500VA or higher ones that ALSO will NOT do the job.

And that's the point Terry and I are making. You need a power rating high enough to handle the load, AND a battery that will last long enough to cover the outage.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Please next time stay on-topic-subject and create your own thread for discussing UPS characteristics.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

P Smith said:


> Please next time stay on-topic-subject and create your own thread for discussing UPS characteristics.


 If you were the OP or an Admin asking then I'd probably listen.

You aren't, and the original question was answered, and then expanded upon, and continued, so I don't care what you think.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Rude to members and ignorant to site rules. Well, continue be it and your rank will be higher then current 'Hall of Fame'.  What is a coincidence.


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