# San Francisco HD Locals Available



## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

The San Francisco HD Locals are now up and listed under the ALL HD guide.

6438-KG0
6439-KPIX
6440-KNTV
6441-KTVU

What I find curious that also listed under the ALL HD guide are

002-00-KTVU
005-00-KPIX
007-00-KGO
011-00-KNTV


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

What no two non network HD??


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## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> What no two non network HD??


Not that I can see. I am currently doing a forced guide update since there was not guide info from 4:30PST on.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

do you have 129? the other 2 are on it...

must not be available if you do...


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## chaddux (Oct 10, 2004)

Are you sure about that?

KICU DT (Ind) San Jose KICU 6444 14 129° E*5
KRON DT (Ind to be MNTV) San Francisco, CA KRON 6445 14 129° E*5 

EDIT: I see you edited your post to remove the "no other San Fran channels" line.


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## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

BFG said:


> do you have 129? the other 2 are on it...
> 
> must not be available if you do...


I have 129 and I do not see them.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

KRON is not available and a late change has changed the name of KICU to TEST and it is not available.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

How's the picture quality?


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Do you have to have a metal package to receive these? I guess I'll find out when I get home. I currently have Top 180 plus locals plus HD Pack + Voom($5). I do not at present have a metal package but that may change depending on whether I can pick these up. 

..Doyle


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

DoyleS said:


> Do you have to have a metal package to receive these?


You'd be in a better position to tell us, but your $6 HD Fee should get you HD Locals. The HD Locals are from subscribing to locals and having MPEG4, not from from a Metal package. Please post the results!


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Give me about an hour and I'll post the results. 

..Doyle


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## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

KGO seems to be the only one that is doing any HD at the moment. The quality is superb!


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## rsprague (Feb 26, 2006)

Sacramneto locals in HD are also lit and in the guide as well..


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Ok, looks like I have the HD locals off of the Sat and full guide info. As mentioned above, KGO is the only one with current HD content and my initial tests show the PQ to be the same as the OTA signal. There is a slight delay between the two with the Sat signal being a couple seconds behind the OTA signal. So, it doesn't look like I need a metal pkg to get the HD locals. 

..Doyle


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## david stockbridge (May 11, 2006)

Help, I have a 921 . . . but don't see the locals listed in HD. Anyone, anyone, Buller . . .


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

david stockbridge said:


> Help, I have a 921 . . . but don't see the locals listed in HD. Anyone, anyone, Buller . . .


VIP 211
411
VIP 622

Mpeg4


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## SJ HART (Feb 12, 2003)

david stockbridge said:


> Help, I have a 921 . . . but don't see the locals listed in HD. Anyone, anyone, Buller . . .


Just to be clear.... You can not receive HD locals with a 921. You need a new MPEG4 receiver. See all the info on upgrade programs for your receiver if you are interested.


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## david stockbridge (May 11, 2006)

SJ,
* thanks for the info *. . . (oh man, I wait listed the 921 for quite a while). I'll check out Dish for the upgrade programs. 
david


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## Larry Kenney (Aug 19, 2005)

keenan said:


> How's the picture quality?


At 8 pm both KTVU and KGO had HD programming on so I did a comparison of OTA vs the Dish feed. I see no difference on my 34-inch Sony. Both look great! In fact, all four HD channels from Dish look great!

I have a dish for 129 and neither KRON or KICU are available. Only the four main network channels are showing up in the guide.

I also note that 2-0, 5-0, 7-0 and 11-0 are now the satellite HD feeds in place of the SD feeds that were there. So you can go to 2-0 for KTVU HD from Dish or 2-1 for KTVU HD from OTA. Same for KPIX, KGO and KNTV.

Edit: I read elsewhere that what you see at 2-0, 5-0, 7-0 and 11-0 depends on what you have your locals priority set to. You can have these channels as the SD or HD channels... or not have them at all.

Larry
SF


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

The picture seems comparable to OTA to me.

I'm having lipsync issues wiith MPEG-4 channels though.

I still have CBS-HD West in Los Angeles for any who are interested about that situation.

I only subscribe to locals and the OLD HD Pack + Voom. No SD, no New HD Pack, No metallic packs.


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## david stockbridge (May 11, 2006)

Just spoke with "April" at dish network. Hmmm, when I mentioned the channels that others are watching S.F. HD locals on, she said, "that it just wasn't possible." I hate say it, but she seemed blonde on the phone. I'll try again tomorrow, not all C.S.R.s are created equally


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## MikeP (Mar 15, 2003)

david stockbridge said:


> Just spoke with "April" at dish network. Hmmm, when I mentioned the channels that others are watching S.F. HD locals on, she said, "that it just wasn't possible." I hate say it, but she seemed blonde on the phone. I'll try again tomorrow, not all C.S.R.s are created equally


I've got one better. My uncle called in and asked why he wasn't getting the SF HD locals and the CSR told him they weren't available yet and probably wouldn't be until the end of June!! I was rolling when I heard this!!


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## mrhoni (Jan 19, 2006)

I only noticed the ABC local and I had Lost recorded. Personally I didn't think the quality was all that great. I also had American Idol recorded and it seemed better quality that what I saw on Lost.

I too had lip sync problem and it didn't correct by pausing or with skip back/skip forward.

One more item I don't understand. The DVR showed 13 hr 19 minutes for HD available and when I deleted Lost, which was 1:05 in length, the DVR then showed 13 hr 54 minutes (don't remember the exact time), but I assumed it would have put back 1:05 back on the HD timer?????


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## pinchhitter (Jul 17, 2004)

KNTV 11 seems to have the worst picture of the 4 HDs.


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## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

I am currently not getting any picture on KNTV. I get audio but no picture. This is the only channel of the SF locals that this is occurring.

Anyone else?


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

mrhoni said:


> One more item I don't understand. The DVR showed 13 hr 19 minutes for HD available and when I deleted Lost, which was 1:05 in length, the DVR then showed 13 hr 54 minutes (don't remember the exact time), but I assumed it would have put back 1:05 back on the HD timer?????


Remember that with MPEG 4 compression, 1 hour shows may actually be just 40 minutes of hard drive space.... that's part of the beauty of the MPEG 4.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

OTA is still king on my 60"...The SAT HD were soft and lacking detail and the sound was bad at time especially during the comercials on FOX during Bones or on Lettermen.

Well it can only get better as the technology for MPEG4 improves...(i hope)


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## SFBayChick (May 11, 2006)

mrhoni said:


> I only noticed the ABC local and I had Lost recorded. Personally I didn't think the quality was all that great. I also had American Idol recorded and it seemed better quality that what I saw on Lost.
> 
> I too had lip sync problem and it didn't correct by pausing or with skip back/skip forward.
> 
> One more item I don't understand. The DVR showed 13 hr 19 minutes for HD available and when I deleted Lost, which was 1:05 in length, the DVR then showed 13 hr 54 minutes (don't remember the exact time), but I assumed it would have put back 1:05 back on the HD timer?????


I don't think this was a Dish Network Problem. I had the same issue w/ DirecTV. I have the national HD feed out of LA and Lost was all choppy at times and the audio was not sync'd through a portion of it.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I only watch FOX and ABC, I was having pretty bad video freeze for about 30 seconds and from time to time pixolation. Did any one else experience that during American Idol. I was having similar problem but more often on OTA FOX.

I was very happy to see Lost on HD for the first time. DISH thanks for providing us HD locals before the Soccer Worldcup. ABC will show several of the games in HD


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Paradox-sj said:


> OTA is still king on my 60"...The SAT HD were soft and lacking detail and the sound was bad at time especially during the comercials on FOX during Bones or on Lettermen.


Hmmm. I thought the point of the PVR was to skip through the commercials! :lol:


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## devough (Jan 3, 2005)

I had to reset the box 2 times so far because channel 5 had no video.
and I am getting some of pixelating


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

devough said:


> I had to reset the box 2 times so far because channel 5 had no video.
> and I am getting some of pixelating


KPIX channel 5 had a problem this afternoon, lost signal on cable and on OTA. Signal came back on cable but OTA was out for over an hour but seems to be running fine now.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## gsalem (Feb 4, 2004)

devough said:


> I had to reset the box 2 times so far because channel 5 had no video.
> and I am getting some of pixelating


Last night I had to reset the 622 to get Local San Francisco HD (Sat) video back 
as well. 


Reminds me of the 921. Except that took a couple of minutes to come back...


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Last night during ER (NBC-11/12). The HD Video and audio dropped out on both OTA and SAT. I had to switch over to SD Locals to finish watching the show. I tend to think it was a station problem and nothing to do with my 622.
(I still got the "What's wrong with your new receiver look from wife") 

..Doyle


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

DoyleS said:


> Last night during ER (NBC-11/12). The HD Video and audio dropped out on both OTA and SAT. I had to switch over to SD Locals to finish watching the show. I tend to think it was a station problem and nothing to do with my 622.
> (I still got the "What's wrong with your new receiver look from wife")
> 
> ..Doyle


I get that same look from my wife too LOL


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## wl11 (May 12, 2006)

gsalem said:


> Last night I had to reset the 622 to get Local San Francisco HD (Sat) video back
> as well.
> 
> 
> Reminds me of the 921. Except that took a couple of minutes to come back...


I've found that tuning both tuners to an SD channel also resolves the issue. For me, it seems that the issue occurs when I try to tune both tuners to HD local channels. That's when I get intermittent audio with no video issues, and issues where recorded HD local shows will not play.

Dish is aware of this I assume?


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

I had a dish pass set to record Law & order . It was explicitly set to channel 011-01 . But somehow, wednesday night , my 622 recorded from the new HD local 011-00, without me having changed anything ... I watched the program last night.

I have been watching L&O in HD for a year and a half, with the 921 and now the 622. Dozens of shows, on KNTV OTA in HD, TNT HD, and recently UNIHD since I got the 622. Let me tell you, no episode has ever looked this bad ! The motion artifacts were horrible. Each time someone moved, there was a white halo (kind of ghost) where they had been before. Ugh.

To top it off, about 5 minutes into watching, after skipping a commercial, playback stopped on the 622. I was able to fast forward/rewind and see the frames, so there was definitely a picture recorded. But as soon as I hit play, it stayed paused ... I had to reboot the 622. And when I did, the event played fine. But I was unhappy. I spent a while afterwards trying to make my dishpasses/DVR events stop recording from 011-00 and go back to the OTA 011-01 . I fought with it for a half hour, but to no avail - it kept showing all future events as recording from 011-00 ... Finally, I found the workaround of disabling the HD locals in the setup. Then the schedule showed my upcoming recordings correctly from OTA 011-01 .

I'm really sorry my $5 on locals are buying an MPEG4 picture this bad. Good thing that all I really want is the program guide and not the satellite locals.


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## Larry Kenney (Aug 19, 2005)

Larry Kenney said:


> At 8 pm both KTVU and KGO had HD programming on so I did a comparison of OTA vs the Dish feed. I see no difference on my 34-inch Sony. Both look great! In fact, all four HD channels from Dish look great!
> 
> Larry
> SF


After watching the HD locals for a couple of days I've got to update my initial comments. The picture on the HD locals from the satellite are definitely softer than the OTA signal. While still good, and much better than SD, the HD signals from the satellite don't have the sharpness you get when watching OTA... the picture looks compressed and some of the detail is missing.

Also, I've noticed some break up on KNTV HD on the sat signal.

I'm happy to see them coming from Dish because I can now record more than one network HD feed!

Larry
SF


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## mgs24 (Dec 7, 2002)

Are Dish HD locals in other areas having these same issues or just the Bay Area?


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

mgs24 said:


> Are Dish HD locals in other areas having these same issues or just the Bay Area?


If you mean other HD locals, as in Dallas, then yes, they are softer with more motion artifacts here as well...


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Just in time for the SFO Locals as the networks are putting some of their finales up against each other. ABC's Grey's Anatomy 2 hour finale is on Monday from 9-11. Meanwhile Fox has 24 on at 9. So, now I can record Grey's Anatomy for the wife while I am watching 24. All of this coupled with taking the wife to the airport at 9:30. Thanks Dish for the multi-record DVR! 

..Doyle


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

Larry Kenney said:


> I'm happy to see them coming from Dish because I can now record more than one network HD feed!
> 
> Larry
> SF


How are you able to do that ? As soon as I enabled satellite HD locals, all my DVR timers go to those satellite HD channels by default instead of OTA !

I checked the quality of the other HD locals yesterday - CSI on KPIX was fine and really did look HD.

But KNTV on sat HD looks absolutely awful, like it's got half the frames of the OTA version. I really don't understand how they can call it HD. The KNTV SD satellite feed actually is more watchable !


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Actually when I got home last night I checked my timers and the timer for Prison Break and the one for 24 were both not scheduled to fire. I had to reset them along with setting Timer 2 for Grey's anatomy. Seemed a little strange. 

This morning I checked this evenings programs and saw that both Boston Legal and The Unit had 2 hour finales and although the Boston Legal timer (higher priority) was set to record with Timer 1, the Unit timer was X'd out. I moved over to the 5-0 Sat channel and set a timer and it was picked up by timer 2. 

Bottom line is I think the timer issue bears some close monitoring until we fully understand what it can do on its own volition and what has to be specified. 

..Doyle


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

madbrain said:


> How are you able to do that ? As soon as I enabled satellite HD locals, all my DVR timers go to those satellite HD channels by default instead of OTA !
> 
> I checked the quality of the other HD locals yesterday - CSI on KPIX was fine and really did look HD.
> 
> But KNTV on sat HD looks absolutely awful, like it's got half the frames of the OTA version. I really don't understand how they can call it HD. The KNTV SD satellite feed actually is more watchable !


Mine switched to Sat also, but I just deleted some and requested to record on the OTA. You should be able to record from all 3 inputs TV1, TV2 and OTA. at the same time.

Check your settings, you may have setup something wrong.


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

socceteer said:


> Mine switched to Sat also, but I just deleted some and requested to record on the OTA. You should be able to record from all 3 inputs TV1, TV2 and OTA. at the same time.
> 
> Check your settings, you may have setup something wrong.


What settings ?
Where do yo specify the inputs to record from ? I don't see that when setting up DVR timers or Dishpass. The 622 automatically finds the source. I am running my 622 in single mode FYI.

There is an option to record from a particular channel or all channels. I already use it, and set my timers to get all new episodes of L&O on channel 011-01 . No matter. When checking the schedule for the next day, it shows that the recordings are scheduled on channel 011-00, which has the unwatchable MPEG4 picture. The only workaround I found for this bug was to turn off HD satellite locals. Since 90% of the OTA I watch is from KNTV 011-01, this is really a killer bug for me.

If there is a workaround for this bug, I would like to know the exact steps needed to get it to work.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Sounds strange. When I set my timers, I open the guide and go to All HD and then skip forward the time period that the show is on. Then I select the channel XX-00 or XX-01. A menu comes up asking if this is one time record or other options and I select. Are you doing something different than that? 

..Doyle


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## pinchhitter (Jul 17, 2004)

SO I am not crazy....I am not alone with a horrible KNTV picture. It is unwatchable. Luckily I can pull in KCRA 3 OTA for NBC. I wonder when Dish is going to address the issue or if KNTV is aware that their signal is on Dish is pathetic.



madbrain said:


> I had a dish pass set to record Law & order . It was explicitly set to channel 011-01 . But somehow, wednesday night , my 622 recorded from the new HD local 011-00, without me having changed anything ... I watched the program last night.
> 
> I have been watching L&O in HD for a year and a half, with the 921 and now the 622. Dozens of shows, on KNTV OTA in HD, TNT HD, and recently UNIHD since I got the 622. Let me tell you, no episode has ever looked this bad ! The motion artifacts were horrible. Each time someone moved, there was a white halo (kind of ghost) where they had been before. Ugh.
> 
> ...


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## BillM (Apr 27, 2005)

KNTV DT is the only station I can get off air, but it is certainly MUCH better than the new satellite signals. This is particularly true for 1080i originated material like the Tonight Show; things which were originally filmed in 24 frames a second dont seem quite as bad, just a little softer. Hopefully Dish can do something to improve this; the new Voom HD channels look awesome!


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

It's nice that they are providing these locals in HD, but after seeing the soft picture and color banding it looks like I'll be keeping my OTA antenna up and still use that for most of my viewing.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I wish I could get them all on OTA, but since I don't. I am very glad I can get them from DISH. Also even if I got them all on OTA, I like it that I can record 3 shows at once using the OTA.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

Anybody seeing lip-sync issues on KGO?
Saw problems yesterday on the NBA and on Desperate Housewives


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## davidxlai (Jan 21, 2006)

LG811User said:


> Anybody seeing lip-sync issues on KGO?
> Saw problems yesterday on the NBA and on Desperate Housewives


No I did not notice that. I use HDMI on a HITACHI 50-in LCD projection TV. The picture quality on KGO looks better that two weeks ago but still well short of KCBS local from LA. So far, the picture quality on KNTV looks the worst.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

madbrain said:


> What settings ?
> Where do yo specify the inputs to record from ? I don't see that when setting up DVR timers or Dishpass. The 622 automatically finds the source. I am running my 622 in single mode FYI.
> 
> There is an option to record from a particular channel or all channels. I already use it, and set my timers to get all new episodes of L&O on channel 011-01 . No matter. When checking the schedule for the next day, it shows that the recordings are scheduled on channel 011-00, which has the unwatchable MPEG4 picture. The only workaround I found for this bug was to turn off HD satellite locals. Since 90% of the OTA I watch is from KNTV 011-01, this is really a killer bug for me.
> ...


I have to check, but I believe that under the Setting for recording options I may have seen a screen that lets you select which TV is your primary recording input. TV1 or TV2. That setting is there, I just can remember where.!


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## SteveinDanville (Jun 26, 2002)

LG811User said:


> Anybody seeing lip-sync issues on KGO?
> Saw problems yesterday on the NBA and on Desperate Housewives


I watched "Boston Legal" on KGO HD (recorded on DVR), and the lip sync was very annoying. 10 second skip-back did not fix it, nor did a front panel reboot, nor did pulling up the Audio Sync adjustment from the menu.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

I tried the Audio Sync adjustment too - made no discernible difference to me


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

I have to agree with others here. KNTV channel 11 from Dish is AWFUL.
Brian


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

Lip-sync problem -- I finally watched last week's Lost episode (recorded from the OTA antenna, not the Dish HD local station), and it was way off. So I don't think it was specific to Dish. I've not watched much ABC programming since to see if it's still an issue.


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