# Been gone awhile...come back to the R15 or not?



## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Hey guys,

So I got an R15 when they first came out, gave it a shot for a good while, and then dropped it like a hot potato because it just wasn't working out as a DVR. At the time, i hated DirecTiVos (I was an UltimateTV subscriber), but I went back to the TiVo side and haven't looked back since. I know some development has gone on with the R15 in the past couple years or so that I haven't had it on, and my interest is piqued now that I just got an HR-21 (which I love). It's so great to see that interface, which I prefer, but working well, unlike the R15 when I had it on.

So, the question is, if you were me, would you stick to the DirecTiVo in the bedroom, or make it an all-DirecTV house and turn the R15 back on? Are there cool new features out that I would benefit from? Has it, over the past couple of years, become a solid performer? I know when the HR-20 came out, it was clear that, because of completely different software and development teams, the HR-20 much much better than the R15. Is that still the case?

Honest feedback, guys...

Thanks,

Ricky


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The R15 has changed a lot since you left.

So it is your call... as you know from your first time around... each person is different.

My original R15 is still my primary system in my master bedroom.

I don't see the HR20 that much better then the R15..... The HR20 does have Media Share and DoD... but pretty much everything else... is on the latest software versions for the R15


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback. It was the bugginess and lack of functionality. Search didn't work well at all (there were head-to-head tests), couldn't record a season of a show on two different channels (in other words, couldn't record Seinfeld on TBS AND Fox, for example), rebooting lost all guide data... I can't remember all the problems, but they weren't worth it.

How much of that has changed?

Ricky


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It was the bugginess and lack of functionality. Search didn't work well at all (there were head-to-head tests), couldn't record a season of a show on two different channels (in other words, couldn't record Seinfeld on TBS AND Fox, for example), rebooting lost all guide data... I can't remember all the problems, but they weren't worth it.
> 
> How much of that has changed?
> 
> Ricky


I couldn't tell you about the Searches... as it finds what I am looking for.

You can not record a show on different channels.

And yes, it does lose it guide data when you reboot... but given that I haven't done a reboot (other then CE's) in gosh knows how long... your milage will very with that.


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## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

DesignDawg said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It was the bugginess and lack of functionality. Search didn't work well at all (there were head-to-head tests), couldn't record a season of a show on two different channels (in other words, couldn't record Seinfeld on TBS AND Fox, for example), rebooting lost all guide data... I can't remember all the problems, but they weren't worth it.
> 
> How much of that has changed?
> 
> Ricky


plug it in, force a software update, and try it yourself.
If you hate having a split personality (HR2x in one room, and D*Tivo in another), then you'll be fine. 
If you're not the primary user of the D*Tivo, (i.e. it's really your significant other's DVR  ), and that person doesn't touch the HR2x, then be prepared for some angst.

Some of the things you mention may still be problems in certain situations - but like I said, plug it in and try it....

FWIW - I have an HR20 and an R15 connected to my Vizio - just for the few times when I want to do PIP/POP (split screen). It's nice that they basically work the same way - and I have all that extra space for SD recording on the R15 - keeping the HR20 just for HD recordings....


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think that you'll be very pleased with the R15 as it stands now. Both it and the HR20 have come a long, long way.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I would have to agree the R15's have came long way since the beginning. 

I got two of them in Jan. 2006 and they are much better DVR's now.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

No doubt they're better than they were. But, there are still a lot of "bugs". People are reporting that it fails to change channels to record a program by itself, but when they change the channel it suddenly starts recording. Others are having problems with getting "Do you want to keep or delete" message in the middle of recordings. The prioritizer and search are much faster. I think the main complaint with search is that a title search of something like "Simpsons" won't return "The Simpsons". Still won't record an SL on two different channels, looses guide data on reboot. They've been working on "Channels I Get", but it's still unusable. It sounds like the "bugs" that you remember most still remain.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

DesignDawg said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I got an R15 when they first came out, gave it a shot for a good while, and then dropped it like a hot potato because it just wasn't working out as a DVR. At the time, i hated DirecTiVos (I was an UltimateTV subscriber), but I went back to the TiVo side and haven't looked back since.
> 
> ...


I must have read hundreds and hundreds of messages on this system and other forums regarding the TiVo vs DirecTV R15 DVR debate, and the one lesson I learned that stands out like a lighted bulletin board in the middle of a desert at night is:

*TiVo users will NEVER EVER be happy with anything other than another TiVo!!*

Now, having said that and never having had a DVR of any sort before getting my two R15's this summer, I think it is an incredible device. It still does have some bugs, but the posts like "piece of crap", "throw it out the window", "worthless", and such that almost convinced me NOT to take DirecTV up on their emailed offer of a free upgrade are rapidly disappearing, and I've even seen posts stating that it's "almost" as good as a TiVo!!

Apparently, the R15 hardware is sound but the software was definitely not ready for prime time when it was released two years ago. DirecTV must have picked up on this and pulled out the stops to get their software engineers to fix the problems as evidenced by all the new features and bug fixes. It's a pretty stable box now and you will only get the urge to "throw it out the window" once in a great while when it fails to record your favorite show for some reason. 

But if you are a TiVo devotee....don't bother, you'll never be happy.


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## cawall (Sep 30, 2006)

I still have my original TiVo in my family room and I have a R15 in the bedroom. Now that the R15 is functioning well, I much prefer it's features over TiVo. When I use the TiVo it seems antique. I miss the PIG, the various forward & rewind speeds and especially being able to move through the guide 12 hours at a time. In my opinion, it's a much better unit. I think if the so called devoted TiVo fans would give it a fair shot, they would prefer it too.


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## Mark20 (Dec 25, 2006)

D*'s Advanced Program Guide is intended to be saved in Random Access Memory which means on a reboot its gone and has to be reacquired from the satellite stream. The receiver software could be modified to use the hard disk with it, but I can easily see tons of corner cases and it being far harder than you would suspect. It will gather all but it takes a couple of days before the entire two weeks arrives. D* sends the further out data at a slower rate as compared to the right now. Never having used Tivo extensively, I'm not sure how they handle it.

With the just released R15-100 software, I had to do a reboot on one of my receivers after everything started coming up in Spanish and I couldn't change it even after selecting English. Because of the reboot I couldn't immediately program a couple of shows for recording because they were not in the guide yet. But I was able to do that after an hour or two. No big deal and the first episodes recorded.

Its possible episodes don't record due to bad data in the guide. D* doesn't enter all of it themselves but also gets it from other sources. So a bum program ID code for one thing in a series can cause that showing to be skipped. (Tivo may start trying to match things up in other ways.) You can go through the To Do list and make sure what you want is going to be recorded, and if not, force it. Personally, if I miss something its not the end of the world. I'll find a way to survive (by the way, these earthworms I'm munching on are delicious  ).

There are a few features R15's don't have the most asked for is Dual Live Buffer. You can work around that by activating record on the shows you want to jump between. And there is no reason it can't be added in future software.

I've had glitches with my R15's but I enjoy them far more than any angst they have caused me.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> I must have read hundreds and hundreds of messages on this system and other forums regarding the TiVo vs DirecTV R15 DVR debate, and the one lesson I learned that stands out like a lighted bulletin board in the middle of a desert at night is:
> 
> *TiVo users will NEVER EVER be happy with anything other than another TiVo!!*
> 
> But if you are a TiVo devotee....don't bother, you'll never be happy.


Not an issue. I think you'll see in my original post, I'm not a big TiVo fan. I'm an UltimateTV fan (still think no one has even come close, including the HR-21)... That said, I had to switch back to TiVo, not because I compared the R15 to the TiVo and I love TiVo, but because I compare the R15 to basically any piece of consumer electronics, and it was far too buggy, unstable, and limited to go back. I was waiting with bated breath for the R15 to come out back in the day...I was one of its biggest defenders...until I used it for a while. I was desperate for an alternative to TiVo. I've gotten quite used to TiVo now, though... Just wouldn't mind getting the R15 back into service, and wanted to see if it has improved any. Still sounds a little sketchy with the same limitations and such, but I'll see. I just didn't want to go to the trouble of activating/deactivating receivers just to try it out again... We'll see.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to see.

Ricky


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can not record a show on different channels.


There is a work around to record the same show on two different shows. All that I do is set a series link for both channels. Is that what you are wanting?


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

DesignDawg said:


> Still sounds a little sketchy with the same limitations and such, but I'll see.


I forgot to mention that the 50 SL and 100 ToDo list limitations are still there. It's never bothered me, but it seems to upset a lot of people.


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## styrum (Nov 11, 2007)

I got mine about 2 years ago too. All the annoyances aside, at least initially it did record what it was told to. Then after some update problems started with it not recording some scheduled programs, but now the main nightmare is lock-ups during playback with losing not only currently recorded program but even some previously (completely) recorded ones. Basically you can't view your prerecorded programs if you are currently recording one, because the risk of a lock-up (with a required reboot) is about 90%. This is outrageous! And they charge a monthly fee for this "service"! Unfortunately, I can't dump them as they are the only provider of the most popular Russian channel we watch.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

styrum said:


> I got mine about 2 years ago too. All the annoyances aside, at least initially it did record what it was told to. Then after some update problems started with it not recording some scheduled programs, but now the main nightmare is lock-ups during playback with losing not only currently recorded program but even some previously (completely) recorded ones. Basically you can't view your prerecorded programs if you are currently recording one, because the risk of a lock-up (with a required reboot) is about 90%. This is outrageous! And they charge a monthly fee for this "service"! Unfortunately, I can't dump them as they are the only provider of the most popular Russian channel we watch.


If you are having that amount of issues.
Replace the unit.
That is not even remotely normal.

I watch recorded programs usually always while recording something else in the background on the R15


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

styrum said:


> I got mine about 2 years ago too. All the annoyances aside, at least initially it did record what it was told to. Then after some update problems started with it not recording some scheduled programs, but now the main nightmare is lock-ups during playback with losing not only currently recorded program but even some previously (completely) recorded ones. Basically you can't view your prerecorded programs if you are currently recording one, because the risk of a lock-up (with a required reboot) is about 90%. This is outrageous! And they charge a monthly fee for this "service"! Unfortunately, I can't dump them as they are the only provider of the most popular Russian channel we watch.


Doesn't even seem right to me. Bad Hard Drive? I actually like my R15 over my 2 Tivos. My son loves his R10 and my HDVR-2 is in the garage for the summer and off after college football season.

On a side note I can't wait to try an R16, with only 1 feed in my bed room and 1 spare line in my living room, I suspect they would beat the R15.


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## buggs1a (Oct 27, 2007)

cawall said:


> I still have my original TiVo in my family room and I have a R15 in the bedroom. Now that the R15 is functioning well, I much prefer it's features over TiVo. When I use the TiVo it seems antique. I miss the PIG, the various forward & rewind speeds and especially being able to move through the guide 12 hours at a time. In my opinion, it's a much better unit. I think if the so called devoted TiVo fans would give it a fair shot, they would prefer it too.


I actually much prefer tivo for the gude interface. i hate directv guide of scrolling left to right. tivo is much nicer to me. i also much prefer tivo interface speed and colors etc over the r15 which i have as well. i think if it's not tivo it sucks. because it is true, tivo is just simply better period. in my opinion.


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## cobra2225 (Feb 4, 2006)

simple.........no


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## ronio (Feb 17, 2007)

I've seen lots of hard drive issues on this forum. I could never figure it out, mine was rock solid the first 14 to 15 monthns. Now mine locks up 4 to 5 times a week watching recorded shows. It is not even smart enough to figure out how to exit out of the routine when it finds bad spots, just hangs.

Newest update brought a new color scheme. I think it sucks, it is harder on my eyes than the old scheme.

USB port still does nothing.

No Dual Live Buffer.

Have to push the guide button twice to get to the real guide, this is by far the stupidest trick they've pushed down to us.

Reboots take FOREVER.

I agree with your original comments as I too came to the R15 via Ultimate TV.

My 2 year agreement is over mid-December. I'm really at odds on which direction I would like to go next.

Ron


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## crabboy (Nov 21, 2007)

I've had my R15 for a few months now and I despise it. The DirecTivo was far superior. What I miss the most are the remote control and the slick Tivo menu navigation. The context sensitive menus and the menus were you have to scroll to the right in some cases is so non-intuitive. The list goes on and on.

Based on the what I've read here, I can't possibly imagine how the R15 could have been "much worse" years ago. There are still fundamental problems with this unit. It fails to record some shows, limits to the number of shows that can be scheduled to record, spontaneous reboots. Every few days I get this problem where the end of show "Delete or save" menu pops up 10 seconds into playing a saved show. 

I'm really tempted to buy one of the refurbished DirectTivos from weaknees. I just cram my old HDD in there and I'll be happy again.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

I think the user interface on the R15 is fine. (The only real complaint I have about the R15 is that it still misses recordings or partially records. I also wish the search function was better, but since it never worked properly, I don't really miss it.)

I've used friend's Tivos, and I like the R15 user interface better. If I had a Tivo, I suppose I would get used to it. But the Tivo interface is not as "intuitive" as people claim.

I think some of the passion for Tivos is similar to the misguided passion for Macs. 

If you are a Windows user, moving to a Mac is not as intuitive as claimed. Nor is the Mac as stable as claimed. (I once brought a CD with pictures and Quicktime movies to a friend's house. She put the Cd in her Mac, and it automatically started a slideshow. Then when it reached the first Quicktime movie, it just churned and churned, doing nothing. My friend couldn't figure out how to fix the problem or stop the slide show. Eventually her husband removed the CD and rebooted the computer. He put the CD into their television DVD player, where it played flawlessly. I can't figure out how a "stable" Mac could get hung up on Apple's own movie format.)


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

ronio said:


> Have to push the guide button twice to get to the real guide, this is by far the stupidest trick they've pushed down to us.


I was about to disagree with that when I decided to check my 300 that got 10BD the other day. My 500, with 1169 has one button guide, but the 300 with 10BD does not. I guess, since both these are the current national releases, the units are no longer "functionally identical".


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

qwerty said:


> I was about to disagree with that when I decided to check my 300 that got 10BD the other day. My 500, with 1169 has one button guide, but the 300 with 10BD does not. I guess, since both these are the current national releases, the units are no longer "functionally identical".


I have the R15-300 with 10AC and I have the one-button guide. I really don't think they would've removed it in 10BD.

As for preferring Tivo to the R15, the one thing I definitely like about the the Tivo was the button press on the remote. Pressing buttons on the Tivo remote is very soft and easy. When pressing buttons on the R15 remote, you really need to press down on the button. I think that is one reason it is so much easier to navigate on the Tivo compared to the R15. Improve the remote and I think the user experience will improve on the R15.

- Merg


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I have the R15-300 with 10AC and I have the one-button guide. I really don't think they would've removed it in 10BD.


My bad! I forgot you have to set it as the default! :icon_dumm


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