# I'm so happy w/ Dish I could cry



## farmermike (Oct 6, 2006)

I had DirecTV for nearly three years since I moved to the boonies where cable is a discouraging word.

For most of that time I was pretty happy with it, even in the early days of the HR20 and its many software bugs. But over time--primarily after they moved much of the HD programing to their new bird--things got worse.

During the early rounds of the baseball playoffs in October when TBS-HD was carrying most of the games, I could count on my service going down every night between 8:10 and 8:30 and often after that. I'd lose all the newer HD channels (TBS-HD, FoxBusiness-HD) and my local broadcast HDs. I put up with it for a while, then finally called for some technical assistance.

They told me to do some things that I knew would probably not help--switch the B-boxes--but I did as asked. But I still had intermittent outages. Sometimes it was a couple minutes, sometimes it was 30-60 minutes. It got to where I'd reset my favorites so I could get the programing in SD just so I could watch the games.

This went on for a while and then I decided enough was enough. I called again and asked them to send a tech out. After all, I was paying a monthly fee for the protection plan. They refused to send a tech out because at the very second I was on the phone with them to programing was working. 

Needless to say, I got royally pissed. I fired off an evil email threatening to switch to Dish if they didn't send a tech out. It took a couple days for them to relent, but they finally did.

He came out and moved the dish--said it was 1/4 inch out of alignment--and tightened the bracket that holds the LNBs on--it was loose--and he told me everything should be fine. But he mentioned I'd probably get better reception if I had the latest hardware in terms of a new dish and the HR23 DVR.

I tried to get them to upgrade my equipment and they offered to do it for free if I signed a one-year agreement, but they couldn't promise I'd get an HR23 unless I bought it at retail, so what was the point of trying to upgrade?

I finally said enough is enough and called Dish. They came out 2 days later and DirecTV's dishes are now lying on my deck.

I have never been happier. I have not had one outage or major glitch, and the VIP722 is twice the DVR the HR20 is. Much nicer hardware and software. I bought a 750GB LaCie hard drive and hooked it up, so now I can store more HD programing than I'd ever watch.

I really think the Dish signal looks much better, too. Even their SD channels look as good or better than some of DirecTV's HD channels.

Since I dropped DirecTV they've called numerous times offering to send out their "super good" techs to fix my problems and they've offered me numerous discounts. This was never about price, it was always about quality of service and their arrogance when it comes to making things right for their customers. 

Sometimes #2 really does try harder.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

You are scaring me! I am about to do the opposite. I know the Directv DVRs were slower than molasses in January before, but I sure hope they aren't that pathetic now. The 722 is really nice but the downrezzing of HD and lack of new channels has me switching.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

You should be patient and wait for the new Dish bird to get up. The launch is for Dec. 10, 2008. And on line sometime in Feb or Mar 2009.


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## farmermike (Oct 6, 2006)

peano said:


> You are scaring me! I am about to do the opposite. I know the Directv DVRs were slower than molasses in January before, but I sure hope they aren't that pathetic now. The 722 is really nice but the downrezzing of HD and lack of new channels has me switching.


I can't tell you if the HR23 is an improvement over the HR20. But I know from experience that if you don't buy an HR23 at retail you have no guarantee that that's the DVR you'll get.

The HR20 has gotten better, but now after switching to the ViP722 I can say with complete certainty that the 722 is a much, much better DVR.

If I were you I'd re-think your decision. You guys can talk all you want about HD resolution, but I'm telling you from my own eyeball experience with both services that Dish HD looks better than DirecTV HD. Hell, their SD channels look almost as good as Direct's HD.

Everybody is using MPEG-4 compression schemes today, so where's the difference? I think DirecTV stomps on its video a lot harder than Dish does.

I used to be in the TV news business and I remember an expression we always used: "Hey, it's just TV." Something to keep in mind.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

I am happy it worked out for you. I too am happy with my Dish Network service. People say that Directv has better HD resolution but, I do not believe that. The fact is, even if it was a little less to your eyes you would probably be happier because you don't have any signal dropping. I know that it has to be one heck of a rainstorm to knock out my signal. I love my Dish Network and it is nice to hear others that do too. By the way, is your bill any cheaper than it was with Directv?


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## HDftw (Jul 12, 2008)

jclewter79 said:


> I am happy it worked out for you. I too am happy with my Dish Network service. People say that Directv has better HD resolution but, I do not believe that. The fact is, even if it was a little less to your eyes you would probably be happier because you don't have any signal dropping. I know that it has to be one heck of a rainstorm to knock out my signal. I love my Dish Network and it is nice to hear others that do too. By the way, is your bill any cheaper than it was with Directv?


I'm with you bro, Haha the bill is cheaper, the signal doesn't get knocked out, soo much is better, the Vip722 beats there HRs by a whole mess. Good to see your enjoying your new HD reception


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

OP.. There is no difference in haveing a HR20 or HR21 or HR23 except OTA and if ti needs bbcs... by the way, 9 times out of 10, the bbc's are the issue with the problem you described. Otherwise, it sounds more like a LNB or multiswiutch problem, not a dvr problem. They secrewed up not fixing it for you. I hope Diosh treats you better oin the long run...


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

peano said:


> You are scaring me! I am about to do the opposite. I know the Directv DVRs were slower than molasses in January before, but I sure hope they aren't that pathetic now. The 722 is really nice but the downrezzing of HD and lack of new channels has me switching.


Direct TV has no better PQ, and other than the NFL package the number of HD channels is about the same. The 722 is light years ahead of "D's DVR's. I switched to Dish 3 months ago and am thrilled with Dish. Plus with "D" you need another piece of equipment to get OTA channels.


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

Where is FX HD and Speed HD?


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

I have had an HR20 for two years now and have never had a single problem, with the exception of the nationwide glitch a couple of months ago. No signal problems; no freeze ups; no slow response; no glitches; no missed recordings; nothing at all. My SD TiVO, on the other hand, has one problem after another.

I am glad to see the OP is happier now.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

inazsully said:


> *Direct TV has no better PQ*, and other than the NFL package the number of HD channels is about the same. The 722 is light years ahead of "D's DVR's. I switched to Dish 3 months ago and am thrilled with Dish. Plus with "D" you need another piece of equipment to get OTA channels.


This is anecdotal of course, but almost everyone that has or has had both services says DirecTV's PQ is better than Dish's and Dish's DVRs are better than Direct's.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

inazsully said:


> Direct TV has no better PQ, and other than the NFL package the number of HD channels is about the same. The 722 is light years ahead of "D's DVR's. I switched to Dish 3 months ago and am thrilled with Dish. Plus with "D" you need another piece of equipment to get OTA channels.


Dish is coming out with the 722K receiver which will not have an OTA Tuner. Just want to make customers aware that an OTA Tuner will not be automatic in the future.


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## DNSFSS (Apr 4, 2008)

BNUMM said:


> Dish is coming out with the 722K receiver which will not have an OTA Tuner. Just want to make customers aware that an OTA Tuner will not be automatic in the future.


But it will be available to purchase separately as a cartridge type thing to go in the back. (No idea of price) AND...*drum roll* will give your 722k the ability to have a coax output for CH. 3!!! YEAH!!! *sense the sarcasm?*


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DNSFSS said:


> But it will be available to purchase separately as a cartridge type thing to go in the back. (No idea of price) AND...*drum roll* will give your 722k the ability to have a coax output for CH. 3!!! YEAH!!! *sense the sarcasm?*


Per last Tech Forum ...


> *PRICING*
> ViP 722k DVR - $499 w/OTA Module, $470 w/o (MSRP)
> ViP 222k - $299 w/OTA Module, $269 w/o (MSRP)
> MT2 OTA Module $29.99 (MSRP) - for k units only


DUAL OTA TUNERS ... Record four programs at a time (2 OTA, 2 Sat) ... Watch OTA on TV2.

It is an improvement.
Why people wouldn't want the module is a question ... perhaps DISH is considering a different module for cable users?
Perhaps planning for a a future module with ATSC output? At least the option will be there.

And it is an internal module not taking up any more space in your setup nor any connecting cables between tuner and DVR.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Why people wouldn't want the module is a question ...


At my house there is no OTA. So there is no reason to have the module. Now if they were to provide a cable module, perhaps....


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DodgerKing said:


> This is anecdotal of course, but almost everyone that has or has had both services says DirecTV's PQ is better than Dish's and Dish's DVRs are better than Direct's.


And so is this....  My opinion based on my experience here having ready numerous PQ threads over the years is that the largest percentage of people that have both or have had both believe the PQ to be pretty close to call it a draw. Of course there are people on both side of the one is better than the other camp given my installation, but overall I think the wind blows towards the majority feeling that both offer more tha acceptable PQ for HD content delivery.

Ofcourse this is purly my own opinion and 99% of the time I tend to stay out of the my PQ is better than your PQ threads.. They can get rather ugly at times. 

I do agree with DodgerKing that it is always good to see someone happy with their service no matter what side of the fence they sit on.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> Why people wouldn't want the module is a question ... perhaps DISH is considering a different module for cable users?
> Perhaps planning for a a future module with ATSC output? At least the option will be there.


I think the reason for the module is because it is more cost-effective. I would say the vast majority of subscribers that have HD receivers with the OTA tuners don't use them. So, it allows E* to produce the receivers much less expensively without the tuners in them and offer the tuner as an optional add-on to those who do with to use them.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Not only will this module not take up any more space in your setup, it is also $21 cheaper than Directv's external module.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I have an idea. How about an additional satellite dual receiver module for those of us who can't get OTA? I'd love to be able to record 8 at once by replacing my 722 and 612 with two 722k's. That'd be a setup I'd praise to the heavens after about two or three years of firmware fixes.:bowdown:


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

peano said:


> You are scaring me! I am about to do the opposite. I know the Directv DVRs were slower than molasses in January before, but I sure hope they aren't that pathetic now. The 722 is really nice but the downrezzing of HD and lack of new channels has me switching.


Directv is expensive and their receivers are probably junk like U-verse.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> Directv is expensive and their receivers are probably junk like U-verse.


Ironically I just got through making a comment on another thread on how I think Direct's receivers are not as bad as many on these forums lead others to believe and most of it comes from people who have never used their receivers. The very next thread I visit and the exact first post I read right after making my prior post is this one.

Although Dish's are better, Direct's are not junk.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> Although Dish's are better, Direct's are not junk.


Well they did have a bad reputation when they first came out. I know they have improved. I just love that HD Tivo I had from them though.


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

I played around with a new D* DVR for the entire Thanksgiving weekend at my Sister's; it's not junk and has a few features I like, but overall it's not even in the same league as a 722.

I'm a big football fan, and not having split-screen capability with dual buffers just drove me nuts after being so used to it.

DTV PQ is no better either, about the same. I did like Speed HD, I sure wish we had that.

I read also that some people say D*'s guide is better, and I just don't see where that comes from at all; I don't like it at all.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ZBoomer said:


> I read also that some people say D*'s guide is better, and I just don't see where that comes from at all; I don't like it at all.


They must like the advertising lines added to the guide.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

James Long said:


> They must like the advertising lines added to the guide.


That is friggen annoying. They do only have a couple, but I have a feeling it will only be getting worse.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

DodgerKing said:


> Ironically I just got through making a comment on another thread on how I think Direct's receivers are not as bad as many on these forums lead others to believe and most of it comes from people who have never used their receivers. The very next thread I visit and the exact first post I read right after making my prior post is this one.
> 
> Although Dish's are better, Direct's are not junk.


I find that this is true more often than not also. Alot of posters go off of what they read, no matter when it was, and take it as fact for now.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> Directv is expensive and their receivers are probably junk like U-verse.


Well, you don't know if Directv's receivers are junk or not as you have Dish and not Directv so why are you complaining about something you don't have???


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## cb7214 (Jan 25, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, you don't know if Directv's receivers are junk or not as you have Dish and not Direvtv so why are you complaining about something you don't have???


mob mentality probably, he saw a bunch of D* bashing and decided to jump in to the forray


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Nah. I have a HR21 at work and a 622 at home. the HR21 is a pain to use daily.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

I know this is one of those things that varies from place to place, but here in the Bay Area, out of all of the customers that I've been to, I have personally hooked up exactly ONE receiver to an OTA antenna, and that was at MY recommendation (heck, it was there already). For my entire company, we've probably hooked up less than 5 total.

We've also, over the last 12 months, hooked up exactly 3 receivers via Ethernet, as a company. The percentage is miniscule; far less than 1%.

Now, it's possible that people are doing this stuff after we leave, but unlikely, because we still go to a ton of service calls and upgrades, and this stuff is simply never used. Most customers here just don't care; all they want is what the dish provides.

Obviously, in areas where HD locals aren't available on the sat, there is going to be more OTA interest, but given that Dish has at least the top 20-30 DMAs covered with HD locals, and given that that covers probably 60 percent of the country's population, you can see why taking the OTA tuners out of the receivers makes economic sense.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

IIP said:


> ... but given that Dish has at least the top 20-30 DMAs covered with HD locals, and given that that covers probably 60 percent of the country's population, you can see why taking the OTA tuners out of the receivers makes economic sense.


The last HD locals press release (November 20th) says: "DISH Network(R) now offers local channels in 84 markets reaching 76 percent of U.S. TV households."

Unfortunately that isn't every HD channel in every market, so fill in OTAs are needed (especially in areas where neighboring market locals are desired and DISH cannot deliver those out of market locals via satellite).

I hope not a single 722k is leased without the module ... but past performance seems to be "let it be an add on". Until DISH actually starts placing 722ks the annoyance might be premature.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

James Long said:


> I hope not a single 722k is leased without the module ... but past performance seems to be "let it be an add on". Until DISH actually starts placing 722ks the annoyance might be premature.


I have one 222k and one OTA module in my warehouse just in case (I still have standard 222s in stock). I'm sure I'll soon have a bunch of 722ks too, but I won't be stocking up on OTA modules. There's a good chance that the ONE I have will still be with me when Spring arrives.

Besides, what do you care if folks choose to forgo the OTA module? I don't get that. I like A/C in my car, and ketchup on my burgers, but I don't care if people buy A/C-less cars or put mayo on their burgers instead (as nasty as that is!). It's their stuff, not mine.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

What will DISH do? That is the question.

When people buy their own receivers it will certainly be their choice to get the new receivers with or without the OTA module (I vote with ... but I have strong OTAs).

But when DISH is sending you out on an install will they include the OTA module? On what terms will it be included (upon request, upon installer choice, upon extra payment)? That is the unanswered question ...

Has DISH finally started installing 722s primarily instead of preferring to install 622s? Via Dish'n'it up on my account I could get a 622 for $25 less than an "enhanced" 722 (or a 612 installed for $25 less than an installed 622). I expect that the 722k will fit in to that lineup at the same level or higher than the 722 ... but will the OTA module be there?

Only time will tell.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> But when DISH is sending you out on an install will they include the OTA module? On what terms will it be included (upon request, upon installer choice, upon extra payment)? That is the unanswered question ...


At least with the 222k, the OTA module is an optional extra that has a cost (i don't know what the cost is, just that that's the case.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

James Long said:


> The last HD locals press release (November 20th) says: "DISH Network(R) now offers local channels in 84 markets reaching 76 percent of U.S. TV households."
> 
> Unfortunately that isn't every HD channel in every market, so fill in OTAs are needed (especially in areas where neighboring market locals are desired and DISH cannot deliver those out of market locals via satellite).


Excellent point James. In the Albany, NY DMA # 57 we have exactly 2 of the 6 available HD channels on DISH. We just upgraded to a VIP722 from an older DVR on Monday and Wednesday night my wife and I had tears in our eyes (not quite crying) when we were able to record 2 sat programs and an OTA program all at once. My wife kept saying "Are you sure we can do that?" I have never used a D* DVR and probably never will unless E* goes out of business. All I know is this 722 is lightyears, galaxies maybe better than the one it replaced. I still can't get over the 2nd TV output and how slick it works without an extra fee. I wish more people in the world knew about the 722. It kills my old DISH DVR and the DVR my parents get from Time Warner.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

david_jr said:


> Excellent point James. In the Albany, NY DMA # 57 we have exactly 2 of the 6 available HD channels on DISH. We just upgraded to a VIP722 from an older DVR on Monday and Wednesday night my wife and I had tears in our eyes (not quite crying) when we were able to record 2 sat programs and an OTA program all at once. My wife kept saying "Are you sure we can do that?" I have never used a D* DVR and probably never will unless E* goes out of business. All I know is this 722 is lightyears, galaxies maybe better than the one it replaced. I still can't get over the 2nd TV output and how slick it works without an extra fee. I wish more people in the world knew about the 722. It kills my old DISH DVR and the DVR my parents get from Time Warner.


At least charlie did one thing right.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

david_jr said:


> Excellent point James. In the Albany, NY DMA # 57 we have exactly 2 of the 6 available HD channels on DISH. We just upgraded to a VIP722 from an older DVR on Monday and Wednesday night my wife and I had tears in our eyes (not quite crying) when we were able to record 2 sat programs and an OTA program all at once. My wife kept saying "Are you sure we can do that?" I have never used a D* DVR and probably never will unless E* goes out of business. All I know is this 722 is lightyears, galaxies maybe better than the one it replaced. I still can't get over the 2nd TV output and how slick it works without an extra fee. I wish more people in the world knew about the 722. It kills my old DISH DVR and the DVR my parents get from Time Warner.


+1, the 722 is way ahead of the anything D* has. As for the 722k I want one but, will probably have to wait a while since I just upgraded to the 722 in August. I would like it if the module was included but, if it is not I hope that E* never makes a HDDVR without at least the option of OTA. I have to have it to get ABC plain and simple. Ever since E* lost that darned court case my ABC had been gone but, since august it is now back. Without OTA I have no options so I hope all future boxes keep this as an option.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

space86 said:


> Where is FX HD and Speed HD?


While, OP and others will have to wait for FX and Speed HD, we get to enjoy, DLB with 60 minute buffers, Channels I Get, that works, Autotuning, just to name a few things. As football is in full swing, and Bowl games coming up, DLB is more valuable than just about any non Sports Channel out there.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

James Long said:


> What will DISH do? That is the question.
> 
> When people buy their own receivers it will certainly be their choice to get the new receivers with or without the OTA module (I vote with ... but I have strong OTAs).
> 
> But when DISH is sending you out on an install will they include the OTA module? On what terms will it be included (upon request, upon installer choice, upon extra payment)? That is the unanswered question ...


No, it's already been announced. The OTA tuner is an optional item that must be paid for ($29.99). It is listed on a work order as a separate item when the customer decides to buy one. If it isn't purchased, it won't be provided or installed. 722k's are going to replace standard 722's as the standard HD DVR. BTW, all of the ViP-series receivers are set to be replaced with "k" versions that don't come with OTA tuners. The same tuner module will work in all "k" receivers.

Customers can still order a 622, but 622s have been out of production for over a year already, and all 622s are refurbs.

Persionally, I don't even stock 622s, because about 1 in 3 of them die within 30 days which severely hurts my stats, and lowers my ranking on the routing list. We are allowed to substitute 722s on 622 orders, so that's what I do. Only about 1 in 15 722s has a problem within 30 days (which is still horrible).


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

$30 seems very reasonable for the tuner module.


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## GB1 (Dec 7, 2006)

Sorry if i missed something but is that tuner module available now?


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## tomallison24 (Dec 10, 2008)

I am a cable customer who will be buying a HDTV very soon and thinking about switching as Warner has only 20 hours of HD recording time. How much does dish have? Also I don't understand the discussion about OTA, is this a separate antenna in case the dish goes out? You still get locals without the OTA don't you? Thanks.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Locals you have to pay for, 5.99 a month. If you live were you can use a over the air Antenna, either indoors or out, and get the your locals that way, you can avoid paying for them. Vip622/612/722 all have a built in OTA tuner. I use a OTA myself, and it works pretty easily.


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## village idiot (Dec 24, 2008)

Do you have any problems recording though? I'm considering dropping locals, especially with the price increase, but have read you lose the channels in the guide.



GrumpyBear said:


> Locals you have to pay for, 5.99 a month. If you live were you can use a over the air Antenna, either indoors or out, and get the your locals that way, you can avoid paying for them. Vip622/612/722 all have a built in OTA tuner. I use a OTA myself, and it works pretty easily.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

village idiot said:


> Do you have any problems recording though? I'm considering dropping locals, especially with the price increase, but have read you lose the channels in the guide.


No I don't have a problem with recording off the OTA.
I think if you don't have the Locals, you will have to setup manual timers as you wont have EPG. I know for a while I had dropped the Locals and the channels stayed in the guide, and then disappeared. Took like a month, though.


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