# 721 Daily Reboot



## Vince (Nov 16, 2002)

Bob Haller's suggestion to reboot the 721 daily since 1.15 has eased most of my troubles since the update: I endorse it heartily.

Yesterday after recording three movies all at different times and watching them as they recorded, the recording of Carnivale on HBO started showing the classic signs of a slowdown: no response to the remote, very slow fast forward of a recorded section etc.

The next flaw, I know from previous experience, would be continuous recording all night. So, re-boot it was [and wll be every morning from now on].

Vince


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Thanks its helped my 721 immensely. Its only burp was saturday morning when I didnt reboot it because it was recording in the am when I went out the door. That night it frooze.( 

Reboot your 721 daily keeps it happy and healthy. Perhaps the problem is a system utilties issue?


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

I think you are going to need a replacement soon. When it reboots it should load a fresh copy of the OS and there is no reason for that to get corrupted on a daily basis. I think something else must be going on. No pixilation? - start of receiver woes. Make sure you have the monthy replacement fee paid.....


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Vince,

If you need to boot your 721 that often you should be calling DISH to get a replacement. 

My 721 get used daily and has only needed to be re-booted once in the last month. I am not seeing any of the slowdown problems you mentioned.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I think EVERYONE shouyld at least TRY my work around and they can be the judge for themselves. A daily reboot may be less of a annoyance than having the box flake out while your trying to watch tv.

Would all those who do this please report back here with the results?

THANK YOU!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob,

My 721 hasn't need to be re-booted in over a month and yours SHOULDN"T need to be either. If it does, YOU should be calling DISH to get a replacement if your 721 is really as bad as you are saying.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

bill the ONLY people that need to try the daily reboot are the posters here like Vince who are having troubles. If everything is fine then leave it be

But look at all the trouble reports here from 721 owners. THOSE folks should try daily rebooting to see if it helps.

This is just another work around till E fixes this buggy sofdtware.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> bill the ONLY people that need to try the daily reboot are the posters here like Vince who are having troubles. If everything is fine then leave it be.
> 
> This is just another work around till E fixes this buggy sofdtware.


Bob,

I'm not so sure it is a software problem (it could be though). MANY of us are not having it. It could be that some boxes have some problem that DISH needs to know about.

As I posted in another thread, ALL of YOU people (including you Bob) that are having the problem need to call DISH advanced technical support and make sure they are aware of the problem and that they take a report on it. Otherwise, it is not going to be fixed.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I already called and complained loudly to advance tech support, even got a special tech and number to call. I think he is your guy too Nice fellow. 

Now once you call then what? At least try daily rebooting it cant hurt and might fix it till they get all the new boxes strightened away they can get these 721 bugs repaired.

Bill R why does the idea of daily rebooting bug you so much? I just think of it as mosquito repellant unpleasant but needed at times......


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Bill R why does the idea of daily rebooting bug you so much?


Bob,

It doesn't for people that are having the "slowness" problem. Before today you were suggesting that EVERYONE should do it and you never suggested that the first thing that people having that problem should do is call advanced tech support. THAT is what I have a problem with.

Given your level of "expertise" you are the LAST person that should be suggesting technical advice. You should leave that to the tech support people at DISH and should let them suggest "work arounds".

If your current 721 is having so many problems why haven't you asked DISH to replace it? As I have said before, the slowness problem isn't in ALL 721s so you likely would get a receiver that doesn't have the problem. Believe me, if I were having that problem and had to re-boot daily and if DISH gave me any flack about replacing that receiver I would just cancel service immediately. No customer should have to put up with that.

And Bob, I think that the reason that YOU haven't been able to get your problems resolved with DISH is because YOU don't know how to deal with them. Satellite is not that complex (for the uses) and a good tech SHOULD be able to get you a reliable system that doesn't require a daily re-boot.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

bill, bill bill as I said since I began daily rebooting ,my 721 is working fine. I DONT want to replace it there are 70 hours of stuff on the hard drive. Honestly I am tired of swapping boxes. I doubt anyone with a perfect 721 would start rebooting if they had no problem.

Look I figure the devil I know my box which has the common problem of getting to the guide but unable to do anything in it is better than the latest refurb box which might have any number of additional troubles. at least my tuner 2 is stable.

E advanced techs have all been nice friendly and as helpful as possible. 

Now if they could JUST GET THE SOFTWARE RIGHT!!!!!


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> I think EVERYONE shouyld at least TRY my work around and they can be the judge for themselves. A daily reboot may be less of a annoyance than having the box flake out while your trying to watch tv.
> 
> Would all those who do this please report back here with the results?
> 
> THANK YOU!


It ain't broke but fix it anyway?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Look I figure the devil I know my box which has the common problem of getting to the guide but unable to do anything in it is better than the latest refurb box which might have any number of additional troubles.


Can anyone translate this?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Really would folks whos 721s that are working fine use the PIP trick to get around troubles? My advice WAS ONLY meant for those with troubles.

Face facts some posters here led by Bill R dont like my attitude. But its well placed. E missed the holiday selling season this year thanks to software problems, their stock dropped and the 921 wouldnt likely be out this year at all.

It upsets me a LOT to see a company I used to POM go downhill so much


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Face facts some posters here led by Bill R dont like my attitude. But its well placed. E missed the holiday selling season this year thanks to software problems, their stock dropped and the 921 wouldnt likely be out this year at all.


Bob, how does this affect your life at all, aside from not being able to get a 921?

I understand you have a lot of problems with your 721. But what does the financial health of the company have to do with that? Why does it matter to you that they aren't getting the new boxes out in time for Christmas?

Dennis


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2003)

For those of you that haven't noticed 721s with L115 reboot themselves everynight around 4am if there are no timers scheduled, the box is powered off and it hasn't been rebooted in the previous few hours. So you might as well let the machine reboot itself...


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I dont know about the auto nightly reboot. But after all the furor here I didnt bother yesterday morning and my 721 spazed during prime time with the cranky guide.

Why do any of us hanging out here talking about DBS?

If you have been around 7 or 8 years it is a large one but not my only interest. Lets just say I have connections to the industry

BTW I am also interested in weight loss surgery. heres my profile.
http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=H984352619 
I was 313 LBS before surgery today I weigh 191 You might say I am a fraction of the man I used to be

NASA and space activities, help a puppet minestries friend of mine, and enjoy helping people and doiing some good in the world. Love disney too!

If anyone is interested I will tell you about my multiple wives Just ask and we will take it to the potporri area...

Its a howl

I have a full life beyond DBS!


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## ngoldrich (Nov 12, 2003)

Help!

All, for the last 2 years (approx) I have a 6000 HD and PVR501. 4 months ago I replaced the 501 with a PVR 721.
I am experiencing what appears to be terrible software bugs with the 721 requiring daily hard reboots.

By the way, this is my second 721. The first one was DOA.

Also, my background is in both hardware and software design so I am very comfortable with any of the hardware or 

software.

Here is a common experience :

(1) I was gone a couple of days and had several shows recorded while I was gone.

(2) Upon return the index of recorded events shows 2009 hours remaining record time. Most likely indicating a corruption 

in the directory.

(3) I review the list of recorded shows. One of them has a title "Uknown". I delete this entry.
The system locks up. I hard reboot and go back to the list of recorded events. It now shows 0 hours available.

(4) I look through all the record events (about 14) and one of them has a duration noted of 4000 hours - another 

corruption. So I delete it. This locks the system. I hard reboot. I then go back into the index and it now shows 77 

hours available. Which is believable.

(5) I try to view the 6 shows recorded while I was away. All 6 lock up the system when trying to view. The screen goes 

black and nothing is displayed. I reboot after all 6. I then delete all 6.

(6) I can now view shows recorded before or after those couple of days.

I am getting very tired of this terrible quality. What ever happened to formalized zero fault tolerant QA testing ?


These types of bugs happen very frequently. I now have to reboot almost every day. I cannot count on the reliability of the system.

I see some of you have problems and some of you do not.

As mentioned earlier in this note, my first 721 arrived DOA. By the way with my old 501 I had periodic problems that 

caused me to reboot. I was hoping they got their act together and improved the quality.

Anyways, done with my ranting.

Can any of you help ? I am feeling like I should abandon my investment and go with another company. The dishnetwork 

technical customer support is terrible. Everytime I call with a simple problem, it takes 5 or 6 phone calls to resolve. 

And it never gets resolved with first level support. It is always the ATS (advanced tech) that helps. And they are only 

marginally better.

Are some of you haveing problems to this extent ?

Thanks,
Norm


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## ngoldrich (Nov 12, 2003)

By the way, possibly one differentiating factor is that I do record a lot of shows.

Probably at least 4 per day - almost 30 per week.

I am not sure if this higher use is part of the problem. But if it is a good design and implementation, it would not be a problem.

Just thought I'd mention it in case it spurs some other thoughts.

TIA,
Norm


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Obviously there are some people who have more problems with the 721 than others. I, for one, did not have daily problems BUT the 721 did lockup and reboot itself 3 or 4 times a month. Even my 508 would occasionally lockup requiring a reboot (when this happened it would lose whatever it was recording at the time).

The 721 has bugs. No doubt about it. For most people though, many of these bugs are ignored due to the general perception that technology is not perfect. However, the 721 should NOT have to be rebooted every day for proper operation. 

Let's use some common sense here. If you are not happy with your equipment or your service from Dish, there is another choice. Please exercise the power you have with your wallet and make that choice. Dish will only get the message if it starts affecting their bottom line. Be pro-active instead of re-active. 

As some of you already know, I have made this choice and am VERY happy I did. I don't have to constantly babysit my DVR. It's a wonderful thing. 

Bob and all the others here who are concerned with how Dish is running their engineering department, don't worry about them. They are well aware of the problems and will fix them if they have the chance or the time. Constant bickering here won't change anything after the first couple of threads. Post your problems, the users here will help you if possible, then move on.


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## ngoldrich (Nov 12, 2003)

Chris,

Thanks for your insight. I was not trying to bicker. I was looking for :

(1) Are others having the same problem

(2) Suggestions on how to resolve/fix/avoid the problem.

This is the first time I ran across this forum and I think its a great idea. 

I really do not want to completely change equipt because I have so much time and $$$ invested now. And with the exception of the problems I really like how it works.

I just want to get these problems resolved so I can trust that it will work as advertised.

Norm


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

ngoldrich said:


> Chris,
> 
> Thanks for your insight. I was not trying to bicker. I was looking for :
> 
> ...


ngoldrich,

Please know that my comments were not specifically aimed at you. Welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Heavy vlume of recirdings appears to bring out the worst bugs in many devices inccluding the E ones. Also the ones I fix for a living. Things never seen come out with continious operation.

They need heavy users as beta testers


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Heavy vlume of recirdings appears to bring out the worst bugs in many devices inccluding the E ones.


Bob,

DBSTalk has a very good spell checker. For the sake of all of us that try to make sense of your posts, PLEASE use it.


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## ngoldrich (Nov 12, 2003)

FWIW - I checked and I have about 45 PVR events. So I am not yet at the 65. 

(1) Was that bug with the 65 fixed in the last release ?

(2) Many of those events are one time only events. It seems that the 721 does not delete a single time event after it is complete. Is that correct and will that change ? It seems that it would make more sense to not keep it around ?

TIA,
Norm


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Yeah they did fix the 65 timrr limit. When it reaches 65 it will not let you add any more untill you delete one.

Of course thats programing 101 test limits.
Its too bad they ever sent out such a bug in the first place.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill R said:


> Can anyone translate this?


Its better to keep a buggy box that you know and understand its problems than to get a different one that may have new additional worse ones.

Is that clear?


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## bunkers (Dec 16, 2002)

From the few folks I have talked to who have worked in the DISH IT department, they describe a pretty messed up organization and I don't doubt it. 

The timer limitation is ridiculous -- poor design and/or implementation.

Also, I noticed on the 721 that when you do a search you get nice page up and page down buttons to scroll through your results ... but when you search on a theme (or are in the PVR menu) --- oops, no page up, page down ... just scroll baby. 

Inconsistency, its the DISH way. DISH, we are friendly to our testers, oops, I mean customers. 

But I still don't want a D-TIVO -- I'd rather see charlie buy out TIVO or license in into 721/921 and future recievers. Come on Charlie, you were going to buy out DTV (which was bigger than yourself), but you can't buy out TIVO which is 3% of the market cap of DISH ? !


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

People contemplating a 921 purchase should look at how E has treated its once high end 721 owners. Because its a low volume box we get low priority for everything, heck the 721s software was never complete, that 65 timer bug is a sure sign of that.

Two years from now 921 owners may be having a similar discussion about THEIR $1000 boxes. After all a high def box wouldnt be as popular as a 500 series.

How E trats us 721 is likely the pattern for the future

I really HOPE charlie gets a wake up call.......


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## bunkers (Dec 16, 2002)

And I would add that it kinda feels like these high end DISH receivers are largely created for the DISH management (and DISH geeks) themselves ... and they apparently cater to their own desires and needs before that of their customers. They would never admit to that, but its clear they are all out there using the technology in their homes well before it hits their customers.

On one previous Charlie Chat, Charlie accidently acknowledged that he was using a dual tuner unit before they were even released or talked about. Soon thereafter, the 721 emerged in public. 

Very often, you see a site like this put up a wish list and vote for enhancements A and B --- only to find (a new) enhancement, Z, performed for no apparent reason. 

Sometimes I think Charlie calls up the techno weenies and says "why the heck can't I do Z ?!!" ... and then they do it (or try to). Its a classic sign of a shoot from the hip organization, where the important guys say do it, and the IT boys start "shooting" (coding) till something has been done to satisfy the BIG BOSS.

I am probably somewhat correct in my assessment --- and it kind of shows in the end products. Yeah, the stuff pretty much works, but its inconsistent and often poorly tested (or just plain unreliable at times or for some). 

It depends on how much variation in the functionality you use each day -- for most folks, it works pretty reliably ... but I think they are just using the basic funtionality all the time. If you get someone who is doing a lot more things (that it is supposed to do), then they notice a lot more problems and have more problems in general.


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