# Directv weeding out customers...Or so this says



## UPEngineer (Aug 9, 2004)

I found this article this morning and thought it was kind of interesting...A lot of the info is old news but some was not.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/02/15/directv-weeds-out-its-customers.aspx


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yep, they've been doing it for a while and have talked about it in the last several earnings calls. It's obviously working for them.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Wow! Did you read the comments? They make me sound like a fanboy.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm glad DIRECTV is dropping deadbeats. The less people on the customer list who don't pay their bills, the less time and money DIRECTV has to spend trying to collect back payments.


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Wow! Did you read the comments? They make me sound like a fanboy.


Talk about disgruntal.... I'm glad they don't work at the Post Office!!! :grin:


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## paulsown (Sep 18, 2007)

Didn't Sprint announce they were doing something similar to this? Didn't the media bash Sprint pretty hard for it? and aren't their subscriber numbers dropping drastically now? Not sure if it's a good idea to announce this. They can actually do it, but to go out and say it publicly may offend some people.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

This is different from what the phone company did (not sure if it was Sprint or another) - The cell phone company was actually firing customers with a letter saying they should take their business elsewhere. D* is just FOCUSING their efforts elsewhere according to that article - on acquiring and retaining desireable customers. IMHO it's just good business.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

paulsown said:


> Didn't Sprint announce they were doing something similar to this? Didn't the media bash Sprint pretty hard for it? and aren't their subscriber numbers dropping drastically now? Not sure if this is a good idea.


The Sprint announcement  was for customers that called customer service too much, something totally different. If implemented properly I don't see anything wrong with Sprint's policy change, e.g. user calls several hundred times a month for 8 months straight if all issues have been resolved.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

We're seeing more evidence of this "new" behavior in various threads here. Especially customers who drop the "give me this deal or I'll cancel my service" bomb, suddenly finding that DirecTV says "OK, there's the door".


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

I read all those comments and I can't believe how many people hate Directv. I've been enjoying them for 2 and a half years now. I was with Time Warner and they were terrible. They treated us like crap. Directv has been really good to us. I wonder why none of those people who posted their comments would comment on all the nickel and dimming cable does?


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## alevine1986 (Jul 10, 2007)

gnahc79 said:


> The Sprint announcement  was for customers that called customer service too much, something totally different. If implemented properly I don't see anything wrong with Sprint's policy change, e.g. user calls several hundred times a month for 8 months straight if all issues have been resolved.


What could you possibly have to call customer service for over 100 times/month?


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## paulh (Mar 17, 2003)

gnahc79 said:


> The Sprint announcement  was for customers that called customer service too much, something totally different. If implemented properly I don't see anything wrong with Sprint's policy change, e.g. user calls several hundred times a month for 8 months straight if all issues have been resolved.


In one article I read about the Sprint issue, a Sprint rep said that Sprint was only dropping customers that abused bill credits and were essentially getting $1000's of free Sprint service without paying anything. These dropped customers usually had hundreds + credits accumulated on their bill and had not paid anything for a long time.. If that was true, then Sprint certainly did nothing wrong, but certainly handled PR terribly (which is what everyone remembered)


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## paulh (Mar 17, 2003)

alevine1986 said:


> What could you possibly have to call customer service for over 100 times/month?


I think they used to offer a small credit for a dropped call...


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## beavis (Jun 9, 2005)

My God, the ignorance and sheer stupidity is just unbelievable in regards to some of these comments....

"Direct TV should be tried for extortion in there HD package changes. I and many more paid the extra $9.95 per month in the beginning for the upgrade to HD. Recently a couple of the origional channels were movet to a higher tier requiring us to pay an additional $5.00 for the channels. Its either pay the extorted price or do without.

My main question to Direct TV is why are you charging anything for a service that is to be FCC standard by 2009."

HAHAHAHA....oh dear lord....What a tool. 

"I have money, I have status and one thing I will no longer have with these practices is Direct TV. Kiss off Big Corporate Brother. I will suggest to all my influential friends as well."

OooOOOOoooooOOO...I'm sure D* is shaking.

"Funny. We quit DirectTV recently because of their outrageous service call prices. We switched to cable because they come out for free.

When I talked to the person on the other end of the line about our problems, I knew more about their products than they did. Sad really. If they want quality customers, they should probably provide quality customer service. Bye bye DirectTV. Hello Comcast."

Yeah, sure it's free....no chance of a monthly surcharge.


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## alevine1986 (Jul 10, 2007)

paulh said:


> I think they used to offer a small credit for a dropped call...


OK, but 100's of calls to CSR's EVERY month? It would be a waste of time even if you get dropped call credit. How many dropped calls can you have in a month?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

alevine1986 said:


> OK, but 100's of calls to CSR's EVERY month? It would be a waste of time even if you get dropped call credit. How many dropped calls can you have in a month?


How much can they possibly be giving these people for a dropped call?? I don't know because I've never complained. I have an average of 3 a month I'd surmise.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

alevine1986 said:


> What could you possibly have to call customer service for over 100 times/month?


If the person is mental or just plain strange, no reason is needed at all. Like this dude who's been calling 911 in the bay area several thousand times the past year for no reason at all :eek2: .


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## TogasPoon (May 23, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Wow! Did you read the comments? They make me sound like a fanboy.


Some of those comments were really out there!

I haven't read it in a while but doesn't the Declaration of Independence specifically state " Life, Liberty, the pursuit of Happiness, and Direct TV without a credit a card"?


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## alevine1986 (Jul 10, 2007)

gnahc79 said:


> If the person is mental or just plain strange, no reason is needed at all. Like this dude who's been calling 911 in the bay area several thousand times the past year for no reason at all :eek2: .


What a sad man.


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## paulsown (Sep 18, 2007)

gnahc79 said:


> The Sprint announcement  was for customers that called customer service too much, something totally different. If implemented properly I don't see anything wrong with Sprint's policy change, e.g. user calls several hundred times a month for 8 months straight if all issues have been resolved.


I did not realize ALL of that. You are right that that number of calls is excessive. I just remember when it came out that I had been having trouble with Sprint (they added services to my account that I did not want, and I would call to get them removed, would get a credit for the amount of the services that I did not want, only to receive the following months bill with the services still on for about 4 months. The credit would be there, but the service was never stopped). So, I called Sprint every month during the first 4 months of my contract. This made me wonder if I would be canceled because the media did not report ALL of the story (surprise!) I guess what I am saying is that something like this announcement could be misinterpreted or reported in many different ways, and could look bad to some.


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## JackBikes (Feb 14, 2008)

He said he did becasue it was free.


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## paulh (Mar 17, 2003)

alevine1986 said:


> OK, but 100's of calls to CSR's EVERY month? It would be a waste of time even if you get dropped call credit. How many dropped calls can you have in a month?


You gotta figure some people here would call DirecTv 100's of times a month if they could get a $0.25 credit for every audio sync issue...


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Directv has always been good to me and I have been good to them (always pay ontime, pretty much 0 support calls, etc.).

Dish is horrible in comparison, and that is my only other option. So I am perfectly happy with Directv.

Sometimes they do not always work things perfect for you, but it is a HUGE subscription service, in comparison to other subscription services like my cell phone, internet, etc. Directv is pretty darn good.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Wow, I just read through the comments .. I get the sense there are some disgruntled folks .. Mostly about cost, though .. they still wanted the service. I wonder if they did an honest assessment or are comparing apples to oranges. Sure Comcast may be cheaper, but it is HD? Is it the same HD or better?

More power to them .. I'll stick with my fanboy status  .. I like where I am and Comcast will not be getting my money regardless of cost.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

beavis said:


> My God, the ignorance and sheer stupidity is just unbelievable in regards to some of these comments....
> 
> "Direct TV should be tried for extortion in there HD package changes. I and many more paid the extra $9.95 per month in the beginning for the upgrade to HD. Recently a couple of the origional channels were movet to a higher tier requiring us to pay an additional $5.00 for the channels. Its either pay the extorted price or do without.
> 
> ...


I read through a few of the pages and I think that many of them were put up by the kind of people that D* wants to dump! The posts that Beavis quoted were also some of my favorites. Another that I got a chuckle from was the guy that's been with D* since 1988 ( approx. 6 years before D* went in business!). I think E* started about that time and the guy probably has them. I did see a few posts that I agree with and those were the ones that think that it is a good idea to weed out the unprofitable subs.


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## WillieWildcat (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm not sure why most of those that posted on the blog don't understand that old business adage, "We reserve the right to refuse service".

Every business has this right when it comes to the ability of customers to be able their bill. We use it at my own business. It's called "risk assessment".

I've been a loyal customer since 1998 and my local cable company can only dream to provide as good of product and service.

Was it just me or did most of the detractors sound "whiney".


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

WillieWildcat said:


> Was it just me or did most of the detractors sound "whiney".


:lol: Of course! there's whiners wherever you go.

Welcome to the forums, by the way!


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

I think it is within their right to do so, but the fact that they can screams to the lack of competition. When other services are available that provide true digital picture and sound as good as or better than DirecTV and they start to lose market share I wonder if this model will change? The good news is the general public does not have a good memory so if they do change this model the bad press will soon be forgotten.

I think the reason why they do not want to take anyone with a credit card is the cancellation fees are billed automatically to your card so if people want to back out before the contract they already have ability to bill you for it and not go through a collection agency.

The one thing I'll say is that despite that everyone one here seems to agree with the policy can you imagine if your local super market, gas station, or car dealership did this?

*"I'm sorry Mr. Johnson, you only make $80,000 / year so we do not want your business. Please leave the premises"*

I would imagine in that scenario people would be more upset, no?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spta97 said:


> The one thing I'll say is that despite that everyone one here seems to agree with the policy can you imagine if your local super market, gas station, or car dealership did this?
> 
> *"I'm sorry Mr. Johnson, you only make $80,000 / year so we do not want your business. Please leave the premises"*
> 
> I would imagine in that scenario people would be more upset, no?


If you read the article you'll see that they're not doing this at all...


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

spta97 said:


> The one thing I'll say is that despite that everyone one here seems to agree with the policy can you imagine if your local super market, gas station, or car dealership did this?
> 
> *"I'm sorry Mr. Johnson, you only make $80,000 / year so we do not want your business. Please leave the premises"*
> 
> I would imagine in that scenario people would be more upset, no?


I see your point, but let's have some perspective...
Super market and gas station - you can't leave with the food/gas unless you pay in full.

With Directv, you have their equipment in your home and you are billed on an ongoing monthly basis. There is a very different risk and therefore the model is different. Many people pay deposits for utilities (gas, electric, water) because they are a risk. If "necessary for life" kinds of utilities get to treat you different because of your risk level (income, credit history, etc) why can't something like pay TV service do the same?

As for a car dealership... I would not be at all surprised if I walked into the Ferrari dealership and was told to leave because my income level was too low. "If you have to ask, you can't afford it.":lol:


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> If you read the article you'll see that they're not doing this at all...


What I read (and it has been a long day) is that they are targeting people dependant on their income, credit, home ownership, etc.

Did I miss something?


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

RegGeek said:


> I see your point, but let's have some perspective...
> Super market and gas station - you can't leave with the food/gas unless you pay in full.
> 
> With Directv, you have their equipment in your home and you are billed on an ongoing monthly basis. There is a very different risk and therefore the model is different. Many people pay deposits for utilities (gas, electric, water) because they are a risk. If "necessary for life" kinds of utilities get to treat you different because of your risk level (income, credit history, etc) why can't something like pay TV service do the same?
> ...


I agree with you and again, I think as a business they are within their rights to choose their customer base (although for Denny's it did not work out too well). My point is that if there were competition that offered similar service that they probably would not take this approach. DirecTV is counting on a very loyal customer base which can be threatened by competition.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes, you missed something. Targeting customers and turning away customers are two different things.

The only customers they are turning away are credit risks ... and lots of companies do that.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

spta97 said:


> What I read (and it has been a long day) is that they are targeting people dependant on their income, credit, home ownership, etc.
> 
> Did I miss something?


Yes. You missed the fact that just about every business that sells a product or service for which the customer pledges to make some number of payments over some number of months or years, does the exact same thing..... they make sure that the potential customer is credit worthy enough to be able to live up to their agreement to make those monthly payments. I fail to see the problem with this. It just sounds like good business practice.


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

Upstream said:


> Yes, you missed something. Targeting customers and turning away customers are two different things.
> 
> The only customers they are turning away are credit risks ... and lots of companies do that.


It does not appear to me that "Less Desirable" customers are only those that are credit risks:

*"It finds these subscribers by analyzing their income, age, home ownership, education and other metrics, Carey said in an earnings call with analysts."*

I read this as they could turn away someone who does not make enough money, is not the right age, does not own a home, and does not have enough education. These do not directly translate into a credit risk.


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> Yes. You missed the fact that just about every business that sells a product or service for which the customer pledges to make some number of payments over some number of months or years, does the exact same thing..... they make sure that the potential customer is credit worthy enough to be able to live up to their agreement to make those monthly payments. I fail to see the problem with this. It just sounds like good business practice.


Where does it say that they are running credit reports?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spta97 said:


> What I read (and it has been a long day) is that they are targeting people dependant on their income, credit, home ownership, etc.
> 
> Did I miss something?


Upstream got it... biiiiggg difference



Upstream said:


> Yes, you missed something. Targeting customers and turning away customers are two different things.
> 
> The only customers they are turning away are credit risks ... and lots of companies do that.





spta97 said:


> It does not appear to me that "Less Desirable" customers are only those that are credit risks:
> 
> *"It finds these subscribers by analyzing their income, age, home ownership, education and other metrics, Carey said in an earnings call with analysts."*
> 
> I read this as they could turn away someone who does not make enough money, is not the right age, does not own a home, and does not have enough education. These do not directly translate into a credit risk.


Income, age, education and home ownership are certainly good ways of assessing credit risk, whether you like it or not.

Home ownership, additionally, will prevent them from having to spend big bucks on an install only to have the account canceled or moved in a year when the customer moves to a new apartment. People don't sell houses every year - apartment hopping is a lot easier and cheaper and therefore more common. This translates to either a lost subscriber or another install!

Bottom line, their prerogative and they're not firing subscribers as you originally thought, just trying to focus their attention on acquiring/not acquiring certain ones. I certainly do this in my own business as do thousands of other businesses. It's just good business.

My motto: "It's the business you don't do that keeps you in business."


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

Perhaps they mean that by targeting higher end subs, they are offering higher end services. IE: HD, Dod, HD ppvs, PC add ons, sports subs., HR21Pro, and MRV to name many. Services that can add up to BIG monthly bills. Dish offers deals for the low end subs like 19.95 family pack and various other "deal" packages, like for instance that DVR package they announced the other day.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

I read through some of those comments and at first I laughed. But then I found myself being rather impressed that so many complete idiots were able to figure out how to log on to the internet and successfully type out and submit a comment.

Simply stunning.


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## Dazed & Confused (Jun 13, 2007)

spta97 said:


> It does not appear to me that "Less Desirable" customers are only those that are credit risks:
> 
> *"It finds these subscribers by analyzing their income, age, home ownership, education and other metrics, Carey said in an earnings call with analysts."*
> 
> I read this as they could turn away someone who does not make enough money, is not the right age, does not own a home, and does not have enough education. These do not directly translate into a credit risk.


I think you read it correctly, and you are right that none of those things directly translate to a credit risk. However, metrics can be a powerful tool. As the sample size grows, so does their predictive capability. While no one indicator could be considered absolute, the sum of the indicators become a compelling predictor of expected behavior. Will they always be right? No. Will they be right a compelling amount of the time? Most definitely yes.

BTW, I don't think for a moment they are only trying to weed out bad credit risks. There is a lot more to a business plan than just that.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spta97 said:


> Where does it say that they are running credit reports?


Where did _*anyone*_ mention that they are running credit reports??



> Originally Posted by cartrivision
> Yes. You missed the fact that just about every business that sells a product or service for which the customer pledges to make some number of payments over some number of months or years, does the exact same thing..... they make sure that the potential customer is credit worthy enough to be able to live up to their agreement to make those monthly payments. I fail to see the problem with this. It just sounds like good business practice.


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

SPACEMAKER said:


> I read through some of those comments and at first I laughed. But then I found myself being rather impressed that so many complete idiots were able to figure out how to log on to the internet and successfully type out and submit a comment.
> 
> Simply stunning.


I like the one about the stolen identity!:lol: Like it was D*'s fault some stole her husbands identity.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Yes, you missed something. Targeting customers and turning away customers are two different things.
> 
> The only customers they are turning away are credit risks ... and lots of companies do that.


I had a couple of items on my credit report that caused my credit score to be less than ideal. They simply made me pay a $300 deposit. They pay me back $5.00 per month of my deposit in the form of a $5.00 monthly credit. I had no problem with it.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

spta97 said:


> Where does it say that they are running credit reports?


Where did I or anyone else say that they were running credit checks? The article reported on various criteria that DirecTV uses to determine a potential customer's credit worthiness and prospect to remain as a long term customer. Running a credit check isn't the only way to judge if someone is likely to continue making the monthly payments that they are committing to.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

twistedT said:


> I like the one about the stolen identity!:lol: Like it was D*'s fault some stole her husbands identity.


Classic.:lol:

Obviously that article just flat out hit a nerve with some of those people. Wow.


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Where did _*anyone*_ mention that they are running credit reports??


Yup, cellphone companys do it too.


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## paulsown (Sep 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> ......
> 
> My motto: "It's the business you don't do that keeps you in business."


Best motto I have heard in a long time.


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## spta97 (Feb 7, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> Upstream got it... biiiiggg difference
> 
> Income, age, education and home ownership are certainly good ways of assessing credit risk, whether you like it or not.
> 
> ...


Regardless of what the indicators are, I agree that it is good policy - IF you have a complete monopoly on the market. If that market is bound to change in the next 5 years due to IP based TV services, I think it is short-sited and foolish.

And for the record, I would fall into thier "Desireable" customer base.


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## paulsown (Sep 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Where did _*anyone*_ mention that they are running credit reports??


I always thought that all monthly services (TV, Internet, Phone, Cell Phone, Water, Elec, etc.) ran your credit report, why would Directv be any different?


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

twistedT said:


> Yup, cellphone companys do it too.


Which brings up a point.... while it wasn't specifically reported that DirecTV was running credit checks, why would anyone be shocked if a company ran a credit check on potential customers before they entered into an agreement where the customer was committing to making monthly payments for a certain number of months?


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

spta97 said:


> Regardless of what the indicators are, I agree that it is good policy - IF you have a complete monopoly on the market. If that market is bound to change in the next 5 years due to IP based TV services, I think it is short-sited and foolish.
> 
> And for the record, I would fall into thier "Desireable" customer base.


I would say exactly the opposite. If you don't have a monopoly on the market, just signing up anyone without regard to their ability to pay or likeliness to stay as a long term customer would be shortsighted and foolish.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

paulsown said:


> I always thought that all monthly services (TV, Internet, Phone, Cell Phone, Water, Elec, etc.) ran your credit report, why would Directv be any different?


That wasn't my point. My point was that spta97 said:



spta97 said:


> Where does it say that they are running credit reports?


Which was implying that cartrivision said they were running credit reports... when he didn't

anyhoo, I'm glad we all agree now that this is a good policy, now that we all understand the policy.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

The people commenting on that article who are claim that D* is too expensive should read the letter I got from Comcast today (I'm a Comcast internet sub) detailing their across the board price increases for their Cable TV packages.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

I got my Comcast internet bill yesterday and my head spun! Not only the price increases but I couldn't understand a damn thing on it! And I have a finance degree!!


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Yes, you missed something. Targeting customers and turning away customers are two different things.
> 
> The only customers they are turning away are credit risks ... and lots of companies do that.





spta97 said:


> It does not appear to me that "Less Desirable" customers are only those that are credit risks:
> 
> *"It finds these subscribers by analyzing their income, age, home ownership, education and other metrics, Carey said in an earnings call with analysts."*
> 
> I read this as they could turn away someone who does not make enough money, is not the right age, does not own a home, and does not have enough education. These do not directly translate into a credit risk.


Again, targeting customer is different than turning away customers.

They are targeting customers with desirable demographics. But they are only turning away credit risks.

So if a 20-year-old who rents an apartment and has good credit calls DirecTV, DirecTV will attempt to sell him service. But that doesn't mean they will waste marketing dollars targeting renters (who are less likely to be able to install a dish with line-of-sight) or young adults (who are more likely to be transient and therefore cancel). But they won't turn them away.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

paulh said:


> In one article I read about the Sprint issue, a Sprint rep said that Sprint was only dropping customers that abused bill credits and were essentially getting $1000's of free Sprint service without paying anything. These dropped customers usually had hundreds + credits accumulated on their bill and had not paid anything for a long time.. If that was true, then Sprint certainly did nothing wrong, but certainly handled PR terribly (which is what everyone remembered)


If you have been reading some of the threads around here, there have a lot of DTV subscribers that have doen the same thing. The net result is that the rest of us end up paying higher fees. I applaude DTV for taking this new approach.

Bob


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

litzdog911 said:


> We're seeing more evidence of this "new" behavior in various threads here. Especially customers who drop the "give me this deal or I'll cancel my service" bomb, suddenly finding that DirecTV says "OK, there's the door".


I've been a constant $125 - 140 for years. In the past month I have dropped HBO, Cinemax, and an HD receiver over 2 calls, then had to call back and ask why I was being charged $10 for a disconnect fee. I wasn't really expecting nor going to ask for but D* didn't offer me any programming credits. On all 3 calls they removed the programming/charge without batting an eye. One guy even said I just saved $18 on my bill and asked if that was all I needed.

If they wont give someone like me who spent that much credit I feel sorry for the ones who spend less than me who try to get credits.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

I do wonder what's the deal with risky customers and DirecTV recently. In addition to this policy there's the $50 fee for adding equipment for new accounts if the addition is within 6 months.


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## CT_Wiebe (Oct 7, 2007)

I don't have problems with D*s policy. I use electronic billing & auto bill pay, so I don't have a problem with delinquent payments.

What blows me away by the comments in that article is that other services are less expensive. For me, the same channels (that I get and want to watch) are about 20% more expensive with E*. My local Comca$t wants between 50% & 100% more (for which I also get 100% more "shopping channels"). Also, our local Comca$t has established a long term practice of raising their prices by around 3% to 5% every 6 to 9 months. As for D*, they've had 3 price increases in the last 6 years (one of which was the $4.99 added cost for the new MPEG-4 HD channels).

With all their warts (stretch-o-vision is not their fault), so far D* has provided me with the best quality TV (SD & HD) and the channels that I want to watch for the least money. With all my grousing, it still is the best bang-for-the-buck .

BTW, the new Slimline 5-LNB dish is much more "rain fade" tolerant than my old round single satellite dish ever was. Our last, 3 day, rain storm only resulted in a total of several minutes of pixelated picture during periods of heavy rain. With the old dish I had several days, total, of 1 - 2 hour periods, each day, of complete signal loss during heavy rains over our "rainy season".


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

Its also about risk and return. Before a new customer pays their first bill DirecTV has to invest at least few hundreed dollars. As a technician I get 35 to 100+ per installation. My company probably gets 4 times more from DirecTV because they have to cover a lot of expenses. I leave few hundreed to a thousand+ dollars worth of equipment at a new customer's house. If that customers flakes and doesnt return receivers all that expense is a total loss for DirecTV. The riskier a new customer and his credit less desirable such a person is for Directv or any company. 

When I sign up with cellular service provider I get free phones and thats a lot of risk. But at least they dont have to spend hundreeds on installation.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

Over the last two years cost of installation and equipment rose significantly. Difference between a basic receiver and HD DVR, basic dish and 5 lnb dish, 3x4 switch and 6x8 switch etc. 
Would you give a 1000 dollars to a homeless bum with a promise to pay you back honestly as soon as I get a job swear on Jesus Christ! I wouldnt even if you call me a greedy *******.


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## wesmills (Apr 7, 2003)

Grentz said:


> Directv has always been good to me and I have been good to them (always pay ontime, pretty much 0 support calls, etc.).


Exactly! As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, DirecTV does not hold a monopoly on the subscription television service. At my current (rented) residence, I can subscribe to DirecTV, Dish Network, FiOS TV, Charter Communications or Nortex Communications. If DirecTV was the only provider of a critical service (water?), I could understand the consternation. On the other hand, they're neither the sole provider or giving a critically-needed utility. If this policy bothers anyone, they should either cancel or not sign up.

I don't know what's "wrong" with me. I have several receivers, subscribed for several years, and have had only one problem: a DVR I received (for free, I might add; the only free receiver I've gotten.. DVR4ME anyone?) was a broken refurb, and was replaced two days later.

DirecTV would be better served not going for, or even actively shunning, customers who either can't or don't pay up, or who they perceive as holding less value for them. We do this all the time and I don't see the problem. It's not like I'm being told I have to give up fingerprints or a DNA sample to keep service. If DirecTV no longer wants my money, that's the same level of "fine" as my choosing not to subscribe to them.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

beavis said:


> My God, the ignorance and sheer stupidity is just unbelievable in regards to some of these comments....
> 
> "Direct TV should be tried for extortion in there HD package changes. I and many more paid the extra $9.95 per month in the beginning for the upgrade to HD. Recently a couple of the origional channels were movet to a higher tier requiring us to pay an additional $5.00 for the channels. Its either pay the extorted price or do without.
> 
> ...


Yea I think somebody is going to be pissed when they find out that 2009 means digital not HD.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

When I signed up for DirectTV 2 years ago, they did a credit check without my knowledge. I thought that was illegal, any other place I go do to they always ask. The only way I found was when I got an email showing that they did a credit check on me. Let's just say that I wasn't happy with that.


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## STEVED21 (Feb 6, 2006)

kevinwmsn said:


> When I signed up for DirectTV 2 years ago, they did a credit check without my knowledge. I thought that was illegal, any other place I go do to they always ask. The only way I found was when I got an email showing that they did a credit check on me. Let's just say that I wasn't happy with that.


Of course they run a credit check. Did they ask for your SS#? What do you think that was for?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

STEVED21 said:


> Of course they run a credit check. Did they ask for your SS#? What do you think that was for?


But it's still illegal unless they ask for your permission.


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## diggerg56 (Sep 26, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> But it's still illegal unless they ask for your permission.


Have you taken a hard look at your credit report and the inquiries section? There are always inquiries from companies seeking to send you pre-screened credit offers, insurance companies, etc. Last time I checked I never gave any of them permission. I don't believe it's illegal.


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## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Yea I think somebody is going to be pissed when they find out that 2009 means digital not HD.


LOL yeah, and um....Comcast doesn't come out for free....... :nono: :lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

diggerg56 said:


> Have you taken a hard look at your credit report and the inquiries section? There are always inquiries from companies seeking to send you pre-screened credit offers, insurance companies, etc. Last time I checked I never gave any of them permission. I don't believe it's illegal.


There's a major difference between the pre-approved offers and regular credit checks, read about it.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

a have a friend with not so great credit. I saw one person post they had to pay 300 deposit. is that the firm amount DTV will charge or does it vary?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Everything varies depending upon the whole situation. If your friend has a credit card with sufficient room on it, he/she might be fine.

As always when talking billing/prices, a call to DIRECTV is likely the best answer.

Good luck to your friend,
Tom


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

no credit cards at all. never had any. thats the problem  Plus she owes comcast a bit and i assume they report to the bureaus so directv probably wouldnt take her anyway, but i'm just trying to get her all the info she needs


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

STEVED21 said:


> Of course they run a credit check. Did they ask for your SS#? What do you think that was for?


The SS#, being difficult to change, is used to confirm the customer's identity.

The most common use is to determine if an applicant is a new customer, or actually a current or returning customer, for the purpose of special offers.

They did not run a credit check on me when I came back to DirecTV in 2006.


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have no problems with any company weeding out customers who cost the company money or who owe money. The more weeding means better service for me and those who pay their bills on time and who don't complain just to complain. I knew exactly what I was getting when I first signed for Directv years ago and I was more than willing to pay about $800.00 to get the service. I kept my end of the contract by paying each month what was due. 

What I have issues with are companies who advertise a certain product and then fail to produce it as advertised. Directv is but one who does this. Even reading the fine print prior to purchase is sometimes difficult. But no one holds a gun to my hand to sign up for any product. If one does not agree to what conditions are required, then don't purchase it or purchase it with no intent to pay for it. 

The mentality such as what was written in the article clears indicates that those persons do not want to take personal responsibility for their actions. It is far easier to "blame" the company and get what ever they can out of it for little or no cost.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm glad this older thread came back up... Being new, I can't imagine all the "good stuff" that I missed.

I was told that I was a "_valued_ customer" - I think that was the word, maybe is was something similar...

I thought it meant that I'd been with D* for a while and always pay my bill... But now it seems there was more to it than that...


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Years ago, they sent me a letter telling me what a great customer I was and how I was being given some “special” status. I don’t recall what they called it, but they included a plastic silver card with my name, account number, and a different 800 number to call. I was told this would get me access to higher-level CSR’s that could solve my problems more quickly and such. As far as I can tell, it never made any difference at all. This was about the same time I stopped receiving the occasional coupon for a free PPV. I guess they figured their best customers would rather have some phony “special status” rather than a real reward.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

That was either being an A-List'er or 5 Heart'er. I got one too. 

Since DIRECTV has done more work to retain only the better customers (weeding out the deadbeats) they've also tried to make the customer service experience better for everyone, not just a certain few. My take is they are generally doing a good job that way with more to be done (and I sense they are still working on it.)

The free PPV has come and gone a couple times from what I gather. I don't watch enough PPV so I don't normally get that offer. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

Not to turn this into a Dish vs D* but I read in an article a while back that they D* was trying to focus on "Affluent" customers who had more disposable income. If I can find it I will post it.

I remember because i sent it to my brother who has dish :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

DIRECTV has talked about this in several investor's calls. They definitely are trying to focus on the affluent market segment. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

tcusta00 said:


> But it's still illegal unless they ask for your permission.


When you apply for service you give them permission to run the check.


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

newsposter said:


> a have a friend with not so great credit. I saw one person post they had to pay 300 deposit. is that the firm amount DTV will charge or does it vary?


I believe the deposit is $200. And no way around it. I do believe they credit it back in small amounts if the bill is payed in full and on time every month. But the CSR can give you details on that.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Mertzen said:


> I believe the deposit is $200. And no way around it. I do believe they credit it back in small amounts if the bill is payed in full and on time every month. But the CSR can give you details on that.


the deposit is 200 for standard rcvrs only. if you get an advanced rcvr (DVR or HD) it is 300. and it comes back in 5$ increments.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> That was either being an A-List'er or 5 Heart'er. I got one too.
> 
> Since DIRECTV has done more work to retain only the better customers (weeding out the deadbeats) they've also tried to make the customer service experience better for everyone, not just a certain few. My take is they are generally doing a good job that way with more to be done (and I sense they are still working on it.)
> 
> ...


The free PPV coupons used to come (12 once a year) whether or not you ever used PPV. In 14 years I think I might have ordered one PPV without the coupon.

Don't know what requirements were for the "special customer service" card, but I never used mine before the program was discontinued. Maybe they sent them to everyone who had never bothered them with a call to customer service.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> DIRECTV has talked about this in several investor's calls. They definitely are trying to focus on the affluent market segment.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Then what in the world am I doing with DIRECTV--affluent I'm not  But I really give D* the money so they probably think I am affluent :lol:


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> DIRECTV has talked about this in several investor's calls. They definitely are trying to focus on the affluent market segment.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Here is the article I was talking about:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-03-19-ergen-dish-network-echostar_N.htm

Here are some high (low) points.



> Dish markets itself as an economical alternative to its larger rival, DirecTV (DTV). As a result, its 13.8 million subscribers tend to be less affluent, and more vulnerable to a recession.
> 
> "If you contrast EchoStar (Dish) and DirecTV, you have John Edwards' two Americas," says Kaufman Bros. analyst Todd Mitchell.


So it didn't actually say they were seeking out the more affluent, actually that dish was seeking out less affluent I guess.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Some customers are only concerned with the price of anything, not the quantity or quality of the product. 

The local cable company offers 72 channels of analog basic for $51.99 a month. DirecTV offers 150 digital channels, for $52.99 a month. I guess cable is cheaper, I can save a dollar and get half the channels that I get with DirecTV. 

Cable offers free HD, for its 17 channels of HD, half of which I can get with an OTA antenna. DirecTV charges me $9.99 a month for many more national HD channels than my local cable company can offer. 

So, yes, cable can be cheaper than DirecTV, if you are not concerned with the quality of your picture, and amount of channels you get for the money. 

You know what, I don't mind paying the extra $11.00 dollars for DirecTV. I get nearly 3 times more channels than my cable company's basic package, many more channels in HD, and 100% digital picture.

But, like many of the comments stated, cable is cheaper. Like the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

so i dont have to look it up..when someone says 150 or 200 channels is that including radio channels?


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Yep, they've been doing it for a while and have talked about it in the last several earnings calls. It's obviously working for them.


They have been touting this for over two years in the earnings calls...since I 1Q 2006 at least...when I first started paying attention to this foolishness.


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

newsposter said:


> so i dont have to look it up..when someone says 150 or 200 channels is that including radio channels?


yes


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> When you apply for service you give them permission to run the check.


I'm not so sure about that. I used to work for a car dealership and we often had customers wanting to take care of everything via telephone, then stop by to pickup the car. It was against the terms of our credit bureau agreement to pull a credit report without a signature, either written or electronic (which could be via fax or checking an "I agree to terms" box on a website). A verbal agreement was not sufficient permission for pulling a credit report. It may even be against federal law to access a person's credit report without some physical evidence of approval (I can't remember if that made it into the legislation or not).


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

directv says my friend has to pay the 200 deposit...anyone know if Dish has the same credit policies?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Dish is less strict, but they do require a deposit from folks with credit scores below a certain number. I don't know what the number is, and I doubt they'll share it, but, yes, deposits are required if you have bad credit.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

So if someone were to go in a Best Buy and pick up a HD DVR for $ 169 and then go home and call DirectV to come and hook you up, what happens if they say no you need $ 200 deposit, yet you still have there receiver? Do you take the receiver back to Best Buy and demand your money back if you did not know you were going to be charged the extra $ 200 from DirectV? Cause I sure would not wait on DirectV to send me a box and try to get my money back from them DirectV.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Dave said:


> So if someone were to go in a Best Buy and pick up a HD DVR for $ 169 and then go home and call DirectV to come and hook you up, what happens if they say no you need $ 200 deposit, yet you still have there receiver? Do you take the receiver back to Best Buy and demand your money back if you did not know you were going to be charged the extra $ 200 from DirectV? Cause I sure would not wait on DirectV to send me a box and try to get my money back from them DirectV.


Best Buy REQUIRES you to use a national credit card to purchase (lease) DirecTV equipment. So no deposit, just your credit card number, please! And if you are a new customer, you don't get anything to take home with you either. The INSTALLER will bring it, you are told.

DirecTV has gotten very smart about dealing with deadbeats after years of having just about every trick pulled on them. I give them credit for that as it keeps their prices from increasing to cover the losses they used to incur.


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## kimi (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm pretty affluent, but I'm cheap. Having said that, I find that Directv offers me better value for money than my cable co. did, and for me it seemed a tossup between direc and dish. There was a channel I wanted that Direc has and Dish does not. Direc it is.

I do dislike all the games though. Tell me what your selling, exactly, and how much you want for it. The rest of the garbage (lying about stuff, equipment problems, adds in the guide, etc etc) makes me want to just dump it and go back to cable or even just to OTA. At some point if service is annoying enough (not bad; annoying) that its no longer worth getting the few channels I really do want to have, I will do just that, and stop watching much TV. DVD movies and TV shows can be bought anywhere.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

ThomasM said:


> Best Buy REQUIRES you to use a national credit card to purchase (lease) DirecTV equipment. So no deposit, just your credit card number, please! And if you are a new customer, you don't get anything to take home with you either. The INSTALLER will bring it, you are told.
> 
> DirecTV has gotten very smart about dealing with deadbeats after years of having just about every trick pulled on them. I give them credit for that as it keeps their prices from increasing to cover the losses they used to incur.


that still doesnt explain how you would be notified of the 200 dollar deposit and chance to reject it. Or are you saying BB would know that at the register and bill you right away?


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

newsposter said:


> that still doesnt explain how you would be notified of the 200 dollar deposit and chance to reject it. Or are you saying BB would know that at the register and bill you right away?


Signing up for DirecTV at Best Buy is just like doing it by phone. If you are a new customer, Best Buy runs the credit check, takes your credit card, and gives you the contract to sign. If you don't qualify, you find out right then and there at Best Buy. (Invalid credit card, poor credit rating, etc.) When the installer shows up with the equipment, he activates your account also.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

holy cow..the same BB cashier that forgets to take the tag off my DVDs can do all that right there at the register? that sure must take a long time


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## beavis (Jun 9, 2005)

I don't think it's a cashier, rather someone who works in their TV/Video dept.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

rudeney said:


> Years ago, they sent me a letter telling me what a great customer I was and how I was being given some "special" status. I don't recall what they called it, but they included a plastic silver card with my name, account number, and a different 800 number to call. I was told this would get me access to higher-level CSR's that could solve my problems more quickly and such. As far as I can tell, it never made any difference at all. This was about the same time I stopped receiving the occasional coupon for a free PPV. I guess they figured their best customers would rather have some phony "special status" rather than a real reward.


It works for McDonalds, Don't give them a raise in pay, give them a title and a tiny bit of authority.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Best Buy can not and will not run a credit check on you. If you give them $ 200 cash how are they going to run a credit check? All they want is there money. Same thing if you walk in a Costco and take a HD DVR off the stack and take it to the cashier with cash in hand to pay for it. Best Buy would be in to much trouble if they started this type of policy. They would be opening themselves up to a major lawsuit and complaints from the public. You can not put something on a shelf for sale and then say only certain people can pick it up and take it to the register and pay cash. Yes you can point out to said customer it is only a leased product and the customer has to call DirectV to activate said product.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Dave said:


> Best Buy can not and will not run a credit check on you. If you give them $ 200 cash how are they going to run a credit check? All they want is there money. Same thing if you walk in a Costco and take a HD DVR off the stack and take it to the cashier with cash in hand to pay for it. Best Buy would be in to much trouble if they started this type of policy. They would be opening themselves up to a major lawsuit and complaints from the public. You can not put something on a shelf for sale and then say only certain people can pick it up and take it to the register and pay cash. Yes you can point out to said customer it is only a leased product and the customer has to call DirecTV to activate said product.


I can't speak for Costco, but when I bought my second HR20 at BB, as soon as they scanned the HR20 into the computer the screen went to the DirecTV corporate site, for information to be filled out. It would not ring it up the sale of the HR20 until the proper information was entered into the DirecTV page. Once the information was entered, the sale rang up and I was on my way.

That was for an upgrade, but I think the same is done when a new customer is signed up. The credit check is done by DirecTV, not the retailer. I am sure with the upgrade, they just check your account to see if you are a customer, in good standing.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Doesn't Best Buy do something similar with cell phones? Slightly different in the actions that must be taken, but isn't the concept pretty much the same? I don't know, I'm asking.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

If they do check your credit report, you will know it as they will ask for two things: your SSN and your permission. Typically, they only run a credit check for new customers. For existing customers, they would just check your account status. Cell phone sales do the same thing and of course for existing customers, they would definitely need to check the account status to see if the customer was “eligible” for promotional pricing.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

UPEngineer said:


> I found this article this morning and thought it was kind of interesting...A lot of the info is old news but some was not.
> 
> http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/02/15/directv-weeds-out-its-customers.aspx


You know D* use to be the good guys. They were a bit cheaper than cable and treated you ten times better. Now they are just plain greedy. It will come back to bite them. As soon as I have a better alternative I'm gone.:nono2:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

igator99 said:


> You know D* use to be the good guys. They were a bit cheaper than cable and treated you ten times better. Now they are just plain greedy. It will come back to bite them. As soon as I have a better alternative I'm gone.:nono2:


Not sure where the greed is beyond what any big corporation has. Around here DirecTV (and Dish) are still way cheaper then any cable system (Charter, Comcast or Time Warner) and offer more channels for that cheaper price, especially HD. About the only thing cheaper is Uverse and many key HD channels are missing on that service.

Hey, if cable is better for you then great, but that is a rarity indeed.

Besides, what does that have to do with the topic of this thread which is DirecTV won't sign up dead beat customers?


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Not sure where the greed is beyond what any big corporation has. Around here DirecTV (and Dish) are still way cheaper then any cable system (Charter, Comcast or Time Warner) and offer more channels for that cheaper price, especially HD. About the only thing cheaper is Uverse and many key HD channels are missing on that service.
> 
> Hey, if cable is better for you then great, but that is a rarity indeed.
> 
> Besides, what does that have to do with the topic of this thread which is DirecTV won't sign up dead beat customers?


The topic is weeding out customers not dead beat customers. Refusing service to customers is a bad idea unless they don't pay. The whole idea that they are profiling customers is absurd. They auto enroll you in sport packages you have bought in the past. They have raised their rates. When you order a movie PPV it expires now. They have a two year commitment when you sign up. Now you must lease your receiver instead of buying it. They have become the evil cable company. I've been with D* since 96. Charter in my area sucks. AT&T is suppose to be moving in. I will see what they offer.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

igator99 said:


> The topic is weeding out customers not dead beat customers. Refusing service to customers is a bad idea unless they don't pay. The whole idea that they are profiling customers is absurd.


It's good business.



> They auto enroll you in sport packages you have bought in the past.


No, when you sign up, you are signing up for a re-occuring subscription. It is clearly communicated to the new subscriber what the requirements are to cancel, and that it will auto-renew every year if you don't.



> They have raised their rates.


Less than everyone else. Are you still paying $1.14/gallon for gas, or did that go up too?



> When you order a movie PPV it expires now.


True of ALL providers, based on a requirement from the content providers.



> They have a two year commitment when you sign up. Now you must lease your receiver instead of buying it.


Yet, they also give you many hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and installation for far, far less than the retail cost. In return for the discount, you get a commitment.

You *can* do it the old way, and buy all the equipment at full price, install it yourself or pay privately for it to be done, and have no commitment. But no one does, because for almost everyone, it is FAR cheaper to lease.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

igator99 said:


> They have a two year commitment when you sign up. Now you must lease your receiver instead of buying it.


One of the main reasons for the commitment was people were subscribing to DirecTV in September, getting a basic low end package and the NFL package, then dropping it in January, after football season. DirecTV was putting out all that money to install a system for 4 months and was loosing money on it. It was either mandate a commitment or charge the year round customers more, to make up for the loss. As a year round customer, I don't have a problem with the commitment.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Well whether or not you could pass their credit check a person should still be able to buy the equipment and install it or have it installed at their cost and sign up. 

:soapbox: 
Straying towards politics I'm afraid, However I suspect a lawsuit since whether or not it is a good thing the word profiling has become a no-no around where I live. Since they're looking to weed poor credit risks and such they may have problems. Can a business refuse to do business with someone? IOWs if I walked into a store waving a fist full of money can they refuse me service? BTW in all these years it's never happened to me, just curious.:backtotop 

Anyway I see trouble ahead for D* on this.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

loudo said:


> One of the main reasons for the commitment was people were subscribing to DirecTV in September, getting a basic low end package and the NFL package, then dropping it in January, after football season. DirecTV was putting out all that money to install a system for 4 months and was loosing money on it. It was either mandate a commitment or charge the year round customers more, to make up for the loss. As a year round customer, I don't have a problem with the commitment.


That was the type of reason Radio Shack gave me when I bought a small LCD portable years ago.

People were buying right before the Super Bowl and then returning the TV sets right after for a refund. so for a period of time before the bowl they warned you verbally and in writing, No Returns.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> Well whether or not you could pass their credit check a person should still be able to buy the equipment and install it or have it installed at their cost and sign up.
> 
> :soapbox:
> Straying towards politics I'm afraid, However I suspect a lawsuit since whether or not it is a good thing the word profiling has become a no-no around where I live. Since they're looking to weed poor credit risks and such they may have problems. Can a business refuse to do business with someone? IOWs if I walked into a store waving a fist full of money can they refuse me service? BTW in all these years it's never happened to me, just curious.:backtotop
> ...


For this logic to hold, the person would have to show up with a good deal of cash in hand. The credit check is not only for the equipment but for the service cost each month. If a person paid in full for services for two years and any equipment costs, they might have a chance.

DirecTV can make a credit check a requirement for service. A customer can refuse to subscribe. It really doesn't get that complicated.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

The whole article is just a spin put on by the writer. Never did DIRECTV say they were denying service to anyone. The only real hurdle is having a credit card and there are very few people out there without a credit card these days, and most of them it is by choice. If they don't have a credit card because they can't get one then they are a very high risk and should be denied service.

DIRECTV said they were targeting people with more disposable income. This means that their advertising is being designed to appeal to people with money and is being placed in front of people with money. If they design an add to appeal to a person making 75k+ and place it in a magazine that has a subscriber base with a large percentage of people making 75k+ and a person who makes 30k sees it and calls them up to start service they will give it to him. They aren't going to say, "Sorry that add was aimed at people making 75k+ you don't qualify."


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

igator99 said:


> The topic is weeding out customers not dead beat customers. Refusing service to customers is a bad idea unless they don't pay. The whole idea that they are profiling customers is absurd.


The customers that DirecTV are "weeding out" are, in many cases, potential deadbeat customers. There are many surveys that bear this out.



igator99 said:


> They auto enroll you in sport packages you have bought in the past.


True, but you are told of that fact at the time of original subscription. Also, you are warned, via a notice in your bill at least one month before DirecTV starts charging you for the renewal. Unless you don't bother to read your bill (paper or online) you have plenty of time to cancel. Even if you are billed, you have a chance to cancel before the beginning of the season and get a full credit for any charges.



igator99 said:


> They have raised their rates.


As has Dish and every single cable company out there-even Verizon has had to adjust prices. When the cost of the "supplies" (programming) goes up, any company ahs to pass the increased cost through to the consumer. DirecTV is _NOT _a charity, after all.



igator99 said:


> When you order a movie PPV it expires now.


This is a restriction imposed on _ALL_ PPV providers by the movie studios. Go complain to the MPAA.



igator99 said:


> They have a two year commitment when you sign up. Now you must lease your receiver instead of buying it.


As has been discussed on these forums ad infinitum, these are measures designed to reduce overall costs to DirecTV, and thus to the consumer.



igator99 said:


> They have become the evil cable company. I've been with D* since 96. Charter in my area sucks. AT&T is suppose to be moving in. I will see what they offer.


That's your opinion. My opinion is that DirecTv is still head and shoulders above _ANY_ cable company. Good luck with at&t, but I'll bet it won't be as good a value as DirecTV.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> The customers that DirecTV are "weeding out" are, in many cases, potential deadbeat customers. There are many surveys that bear this out.
> 
> True, but you are told of that fact at the time of original subscription. Also, you are warned, via a notice in your bill at least one month before DirecTV starts charging you for the renewal. Unless you don't bother to read your bill (paper or online) you have plenty of time to cancel. Even if you are billed, you have a chance to cancel before the beginning of the season and get a full credit for any charges.
> 
> ...


There is no reason to auto renew your sports subscription other than the hope that you will forget about calling them and they can charge you for it. I didn't know about the PPV being across the board. Other than that I still stand by saying they are going way to far and are greedy. It turns people off. Anyone here old enough to remember MA Bell? You talk about terrible service. If E* and D* merge lookout! Nobody said D* should be a charity. They were a much more friendly and less costly alternative in the 90's.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

igator99 said:


> There is no reason to auto renew your sports subscription other than the hope that you will forget about calling them and they can charge you for it. I didn't know about the PPV being across the board. Other than that I still stand by saying they are going way to far and are greedy. It turns people off. Anyone here old enough to remember MA Bell? You talk about terrible service. If E* and D* merge lookout! Nobody said D* should be a charity. They were a much more friendly and less costly alternative in the 90's.


If by greedy, you mean trying to set a reasonable expectation of someone paying their bill in the future, you are correct. Many companies are greedy in that way.

Take a quick survey and find out how many NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers cancel year to year. Do you know the extent to which Sunday Ticket gains new subscribers for DirecTV? Do you know that the renewal price is below the listed price? It's fairly easy to cancel if you read your bill or look at your statement online. Oh, and every magazine and newspaper in the country do the same thing. They're greedy too.


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## JoeF (Aug 20, 2007)

igator99 said:


> You know D* use to be the good guys. They were a bit cheaper than cable and treated you ten times better. Now they are just plain greedy. It will come back to bite them. As soon as I have a better alternative I'm gone.:nono2:


I probably wouldn't use the word greedy. After all, companies exist to make money. The problem, as I see it, is that D* has numerous practices and policies that are more in line with a pay-day loan company than a nationally recognized space based television leader.

For instance: 
Auto renew for sports packages. If I like the product, do they really think I'll forget to sign-up? This is just a marketing tool to separate the product and the cost. Another tactic they use is to advertise the price as X payments of XX, rather than the total price.

CSR's not knowing the current promotions, immediately followed by billing that doesn't match the phone discussion. Sure, they fix it, but only if you catch it and call them.

Confusing pricing. As a former D* customer who is actively doing research in order to re-subscribe, I'm amazed at how hard it is to figure out what it's going to cost. As far as I can tell there are no less than 3 cost calculations 1. Equipment 2. Short term monthly cost 3. Long term monthly cost. Keep in mind each one of these may or may not have a "special good deal" (if you ask and if you get the right CSR or are a member of AAA, and remember to get a referral, etc&#8230

Lease vs. buy. All D* equipment is leased. Well, sort of&#8230; You pay for it, or some of it, but make sure you send it back when you unsubscribe. Oh, since it's leased, if it dies I just send it back and they'll send a new one. Yes, but only if you have the PP. Huh? If you don't have the PP, you'll probably just get a discount on a replacement receiver, that is, if you upgrade and agree to XX months commitment and get the right CSR and ask for the discount and threaten to leave or hold your breath.

There's more, but you get the idea. As some others have stated, I'm free to take my business wherever I like. I think that D* has the best product, period. In fact, I want to buy it, but they're making me work awfully hard to weed thru the marketing hype, games and nit-noid used car sales policies. Every time I think I'm ready to pick up the phone and order, I come across another item that makes D* look like a second rate outfit.


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## dhines (Aug 16, 2006)

igator99 said:


> You know D* use to be the good guys. They were a bit cheaper than cable and treated you ten times better. Now they are just plain greedy. It will come back to bite them. As soon as I have a better alternative I'm gone.:nono2:


adios, don't let the door hit you when you go.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

gregjones said:


> If by greedy, you mean trying to set a reasonable expectation of someone paying their bill in the future, you are correct. Many companies are greedy in that way.
> 
> Take a quick survey and find out how many NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers cancel year to year. Do you know the extent to which Sunday Ticket gains new subscribers for DirecTV? Do you know that the renewal price is below the listed price? It's fairly easy to cancel if you read your bill or look at your statement online. Oh, and every magazine and newspaper in the country do the same thing. They're greedy too.


Sunday ticket has been brought up several times. That is BS. The last time I checked, the NFL season only lasts five months not two years. A two year commitment is absurd. We all know the business of a company is to make money. There is nothing wrong with that. However there are ethics and morality to making money. I find D* practices to be rather predatory. I don't like it. If you like it well you know what they say about one being born every minute. If FIOS or AT&T are comparable and become available in my area I'm gone.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

JoeF said:


> I probably wouldn't use the word greedy. After all, companies exist to make money. The problem, as I see it, is that D* has numerous practices and policies that are more in line with a pay-day loan company than a nationally recognized space based television leader.
> 
> For instance:
> Auto renew for sports packages. If I like the product, do they really think I'll forget to sign-up? This is just a marketing tool to separate the product and the cost. Another tactic they use is to advertise the price as X payments of XX, rather than the total price.
> ...


BRAVO! You said it better than I could. They use a lot of smoke and mirrors. Call as CRS and you may get a different offer than the one you got yesterday. Shady installers...the list goes on and on.:nono2:


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

dhines said:


> adios, don't let the door hit you when you go.


Hasta la vista. No problemo. I can't understand why some or so loyal to just another greedy company.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

JoeF said:


> ...D* has numerous practices and policies that are more in line with a pay-day loan company than a nationally recognized space based television leader.
> 
> For instance:
> Auto renew for sports packages...
> ...


Any service I don't want, I cancel. I cancelled Sunday Ticket in February. It wasn't a problem. This is no different than every other premium service on DirecTV. They all renew. Nobody calls up DirecTV and says, "hey, how about you leave HBO on for this next month, too."

All of the pricing can be summed up fairly simply. Pricing is simple unless you want to haggle. Buying things from DirecTV is simple and quick. Tell them what you want and they tell you how much it costs. How much of a deal you want to get is dependent on how long you want to work at it. Here, I think that anyone that complains about how long it can take should settle for published pricing. Either your time is less expensive than the potential discount or it is not; there is no maybe.

Does their price haggling cost them money? Yes. Is it your problem? No. If you would like it to be your problem, buy one share of stock. Then you can complain that it is your problem as a shareholder.

In the past it was possible to get a good deal by threatening to quit. Now, if you threaten to cancel, they look at your account. If your account made them less money than it would cost to appease you, they call your bluff. This is my favorite new policy.

The pricing gripe reminds me of people having a hard time setting up wireless networking for their HR2x. Now the HR2x doesn't require wireless networking. Yet almost everyone having an issue specifically made the setup harder than it had to be by deciding to use wireless networking.

Lease vs buy is simple for the last 2 years. It is most likely leased. Reading any paper you signed in the last 2 years tells you it was leased.

The thing that most concerns me is that this rant has nothing to do with the topic.


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## JJJBBB (May 26, 2007)

Good for the stock. It's been slowly climbing for some time now. A great long term investment I believe.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

igator99 said:


> There is no reason to auto renew your sports subscription other than the hope that you will forget about calling them and they can charge you for it. I didn't know about the PPV being across the board. Other than that I still stand by saying they are going way to far and are greedy. It turns people off. Anyone here old enough to remember MA Bell? You talk about terrible service. If E* and D* merge lookout! Nobody said D* should be a charity. They were a much more friendly and less costly alternative in the 90's.


I like auto renew, because it is usually lower than a new sports subscription price.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

igator99 said:


> Sunday ticket has been brought up several times. That is BS. The last time I checked, the NFL season only lasts five months not two years. A two year commitment is absurd. We all know the business of a company is to make money. There is nothing wrong with that. However there are ethics and morality to making money. I find D* practices to be rather predatory. I don't like it. If you like it well you know what they say about one being born every minute. If FIOS or AT&T are comparable and become available in my area I'm gone.


They haven't secretly subscribed anyone to Sunday Ticket. A two-year commitment has nothing to do with Sunday Ticket. Anytime I have ever discussed Sunday ticket with a CSR, they immediately point out that it auto-renews. If they lied about it, it would be different. Telling the truth is neither predatory or immoral, I hope.


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## JoeF (Aug 20, 2007)

gregjones said:


> Any service I don't want, I cancel. I cancelled Sunday Ticket in February. It wasn't a problem. This is no different than every other premium service on DirecTV. They all renew. Nobody calls up DirecTV and says, "hey, how about you leave HBO on for this next month, too."


I disagree with the HBO / ST comparison. My guess is that the average D* customer doesn't look at them the same and it's clear that D* doesn't treat them the same. If they did, HBO would be nearly $1000/year.

I won't argue your point about being able to cancel. Just saying that making auto-renew a choice would be better. Heck, charge me more for not choosing auto-renew!



gregjones said:


> All of the pricing can be summed up fairly simply. Pricing is simple unless you want to haggle. Buying things from DirecTV is simple and quick. Tell them what you want and they tell you how much it costs.


I'm not talking about haggling. AAA, Welcome back, Referral, DVR upgrade, etc... are all D* offers. I find little or no reference to them on the D* web page or even in the monthly "We want you back" letter they send me. While they don't need to plaster all the offers all over the front page, you'd think a quick search should turn something up



gregjones said:


> In the past it was possible to get a good deal by threatening to quit. Now, if you threaten to cancel, they look at your account. If your account made them less money than it would cost to appease you, they call your bluff. This is my favorite new policy.


Agree. Only critique is that if D* called a few long term customers once in a while and threw a bone, they'd have less threats to cancel AND they'd make more money because the "bonus" would be a D* choice rather than having to "do what it takes" to retain someone who is unhappy.



gregjones said:


> Lease vs buy is simple for the last 2 years. It is most likely leased. Reading any paper you signed in the last 2 years tells you it was leased.


I haven't signed anything yet. Just my opinion that they're trying to play both sides of the fence with large print vs. small print.



gregjones said:


> The thing that most concerns me is that this rant has nothing to do with the topic.


I don't consider anything you said a rant, it may be a little off the OP topic but after 5 pages, that tends to happen. Happy to move to a new post if this is too far out of line.


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

I don't have a problem in general, but requiring contracts is not good for the customer. Once they lock you in, they have less incentive to match services or prices to competitors.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

gregjones said:


> They haven't secretly subscribed anyone to Sunday Ticket. A two-year commitment has nothing to do with Sunday Ticket. Anytime I have ever discussed Sunday ticket with a CSR, they immediately point out that it auto-renews. If they lied about it, it would be different. Telling the truth is neither predatory or immoral, I hope.


Never said the secretly subscribed people to sports subscriptions. Most people don't think about their TV service everyday. They are hoping that you will forget about it or realize it is to late to cancel. They will not prorate a thing if you try to cancel after the first week. It's kind of like a rebate when you buy something. The company is betting that you will not turn in the rebate. What other possible reason would they have for an auto renew?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

igator99 said:


> Never said the secretly subscribed people to sports subscriptions. Most people don't think about their TV service everyday. They are hoping that you will forget about it or realize it is to late to cancel. They will not prorate a thing if you try to cancel after the first week. It's kind of like a rebate when you buy something. The company is betting that you will not turn in the rebate. What other possible reason would they have for an auto renew?


Well if someone doesn't notice a sudden jump of $50 in their DirecTV come June/July then...


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Well if someone doesn't notice a sudden jump of $50 in their DirecTV come June/July then...


Answer the question.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

igator99 said:


> Never said the secretly subscribed people to sports subscriptions. Most people don't think about their TV service everyday. They are hoping that you will forget about it or realize it is to late to cancel. They will not prorate a thing if you try to cancel after the first week. It's kind of like a rebate when you buy something. The company is betting that you will not turn in the rebate. What other possible reason would they have for an auto renew?





bonscott87 said:


> Well if someone doesn't notice a sudden jump of $50 in their DirecTV come June/July then...





igator99 said:


> Answer the question.


Easy. They make it auto renew so people don't have to call every year to get it. The great majority of people that have sports subscription want them every year. I for one would rather just set them up once and never have to call again. I don't want to call them every time to renew a service. I ordered it because I want it and if I want to stop it I'll tell them.

Anyone who doesn't like it is free to not receive the service.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

66stang351 said:


> Easy. They make it auto renew so people don't have to call every year to get it. The great majority of people that have sports subscription want them every year. I for one would rather just set them up once and never have to call again. I don't want to call them every time to renew a service. I ordered it because I want it and if I want to stop it I'll tell them.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't like it is free to not receive the service.


!rolling


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Well if someone doesn't notice a sudden jump of $50 in their DirecTV come June/July then...


+1


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gregjones said:


> Any service I don't want, I cancel. I cancelled Sunday Ticket in February. It wasn't a problem. This is no different than every other premium service on DirecTV. They all renew. Nobody calls up DirecTV and says, "*hey, how about you leave HBO on for this next month, too*."


Actually if you read some of the other threads this does happen very often, threads about people complaining the cannot get any more credits, complaining about Directv not offering them 10 years of free premium channels for a perceived shortcoming against them, getting upset because they called to get more freebies because the ones that they had ended.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> Actually if you read some of the other threads this does happen very often, threads about people complaining the cannot get any more credits, complaining about Directv not offering them 10 years of free premium channels for a perceived shortcoming against them, getting upset because they called to get more freebies because the ones that they had ended.


I was pointing out that HBO auto-renews just like sports subscriptions. HBO is monthly where the sports subscriptions are annual. DirecTV's subscriptions all keep going until you stop them.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

gregjones -- 

The comparison of Sunday Ticket (or Full Court, etc), to premium services like HBO is a bit disingenuous.

HBO is a continuous service. And once established, it can be cancelled at any time without penalty after the first 30 days.

Sunday Ticket is not a continuous service. It starts at the beginning of the football season and ends at the end of the football season. You can cancel Sunday Ticket without penalty before it starts. But once it starts, you can't cancel it until it ends.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Upstream said:


> gregjones --
> 
> The comparison of Sunday Ticket (or Full Court, etc), to premium services like HBO is a bit disingenuous.
> 
> ...


That argument, I can buy: good point. But the fact that all of them autorenew still holds.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

igator99 said:


> Answer the question.


Ok, they are idiots. It's like the people that don't check their credit card or bank statements every month and don't notice their credit card number was stolen months ago.

Number 1, if you don't pay attention to your bills every month you're an idiot. Number 2 if you don't notice your bill suddenly go up $50 you're an idiot. Society loves to prey on people like that. Have fun!

As mentioned, most people that get the sports packages want to have it every year and autorenew is a nice perk. If you don't want it anymore how hard is it to call and cancel? Not very.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ok, they are idiots. It's like the people that don't check their credit card or bank statements every month and don't notice their credit card number was stolen months ago.
> 
> Number 1, if you don't pay attention to your bills every month you're an idiot. Number 2 if you don't notice your bill suddenly go up $50 you're an idiot. Society loves to prey on people like that. Have fun!
> 
> As mentioned, most people that get the sports packages want to have it every year and autorenew is a nice perk. If you don't want it anymore how hard is it to call and cancel? Not very.


Plus it does show up as a $0.00 charge for at least 2 months before they charge you.

Obviously all corporations are out there to make money for their stockholders. And maybe years ago some guy in a DIRECTV conference rom said, "Hey, I bet if we made this thing auto-renew we would keep more subscribers on it year after year because they will get renewed without thinking about it." But like bonscott said, any subscribers that get it year after year just because it auto-renews are idiots and IMO should be separated from their money.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ok, they are idiots. It's like the people that don't check their credit card or bank statements every month and don't notice their credit card number was stolen months ago.
> 
> Number 1, if you don't pay attention to your bills every month you're an idiot. Number 2 if you don't notice your bill suddenly go up $50 you're an idiot. Society loves to prey on people like that. Have fun!
> 
> As mentioned, most people that get the sports packages want to have it every year and autorenew is a nice perk. If you don't want it anymore how hard is it to call and cancel? Not very.


If you go to a bar and order a beer, does the bartender automatically setup ten beers in a row as a nice perk because he thinks you will want it? If you do drink one of the ten beers but do not want the other nine does he still charge you for them? It is a little scam D* does. Wake up they are not your friend. :nono2:


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gregjones said:


> I was pointing out that HBO auto-renews just like sports subscriptions. HBO is monthly where the sports subscriptions are annual. DirecTV's subscriptions all keep going until you stop them.


And the point is? It is stated in the TOS


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> If you go to a bar and order a beer, does the bartender automatically setup ten beers in a row as a nice perk because he thinks you will want it? If you do drink one of the ten beers but do not want the other nine does he still charge you for them? It is a little scam D* does. Wake up they are not your friend. :nono2:


depends, corner bar I frequent if it is not busy has my preferred glass of posion sitting on the bar when I get ready to sit down.

Sorry, don;t see anything you are putting forth as being a scam


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

igator99 said:


> If you go to a bar and order a beer, does the bartender automatically setup ten beers in a row as a nice perk because he thinks you will want it? If you do drink one of the ten beers but do not want the other nine does he still charge you for them? It is a little scam D* does. Wake up they are not your friend. :nono2:


I don't think anyone in this thread is arguing that DirecTV is their buddy. However, I do not think that they are any more dishonest than the average American company. Auto Renew is here to stay with everyone, no matter what industry, hell even magazines are trying to do it now. Yes they do it to keep you subscribed to the service, but I don't see it as dishonest, they tell you it is being done when you sign up and they tell you 2 months in advance the payment is about to start. You are free to cancel at any time. Other companies don't even bother warning you it's about to start again sometimes.

Personally, I don't want to have to renew every year and when I am done with Sunday Ticket I will cancel it. If you really feel that strongly that they are out to get you, the answer is easy don't subscriber to their service.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> depends, corner bar I frequent if it is not busy has my preferred glass of posion sitting on the bar when I get ready to sit down.
> 
> Sorry, don;t see anything you are putting forth as being a scam


Really how nice. So if they have a glass of whiskey waiting for you and you really didn't want to have a drink, you don't mind them trying to charge you for it just because that is what you wanted in the past? It is a little scam. They are hoping you forget or you are to lazy to cancel. Also how many women do think pay the bill? They might just assume their husband wants it. If you buy a tire today at the local tire place, should then send you one next year and try to charge you for it? It is up to you to send it back or cancel the tire order! :lol:


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> And the point is? It is stated in the TOS


The point is this: if you want to cancel, cancel. If you don't, don't. Sunday Ticket is not so magically different that it is unreasonable to expect customers to understand it.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

gregjones said:


> The point is this: if you want to cancel, cancel. If you don't, don't. Sunday Ticket is not so magically different that it is unreasonable to expect customers to understand it.


Except with Sunday Ticket you can't always cancel. Once it renews and the season starts, it is too late to cancel.

But I understand that some people like the convenience of autorenewal. If DirecTV were truely customer-centric, they would offer the option of autorenewal or no autorenewal.

And I also understand that DirecTV, being somewhat less than customer-centric, really doesn't want to do that. They are hoping that people will forget from season-to-season that they will be recharged for the autorenewing sports subscription.

That is not really being dishonest or deceptive, as long as DirecTV clearly informs customers that the sports subscription is autorenewing and as long as they make it relatively easy for people who don't want it to cancel. (Of course, with my experience with DirecTV screwing up almost every transactionl, if I cancelled Sunday Ticket, I would call back several times between February and August just to reconfirm that my request to cancel actually resulted in it being cancelled.)


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Rakul said:


> I don't think anyone in this thread is arguing that DirecTV is their buddy. However, I do not think that they are any more dishonest than the average American company. Auto Renew is here to stay with everyone, no matter what industry, hell even magazines are trying to do it now. Yes they do it to keep you subscribed to the service, but I don't see it as dishonest, they tell you it is being done when you sign up and they tell you 2 months in advance the payment is about to start. You are free to cancel at any time. Other companies don't even bother warning you it's about to start again sometimes.
> 
> Personally, I don't want to have to renew every year and when I am done with Sunday Ticket I will cancel it. If you really feel that strongly that they are out to get you, the answer is easy don't subscriber to their service.


One reason I don't have any magazine subscriptions. It is also the same reason that I never bought anything from those time life commercials, I've seen people go through hell trying to cancel those plans where they send a postcard and you need to send it or they send the next one.

I don't know if they still do it but magazines used to advertise a free issue. The catch? If you cancel you can keep the free issue. If you don't cancel right away you just signed up for a years subscription and you got 11 more issues for the subscription. So it was only free if you didn't sub.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

igator99 said:


> If you go to a bar and order a beer, does the bartender automatically setup ten beers in a row as a nice perk because he thinks you will want it? If you do drink one of the ten beers but do not want the other nine does he still charge you for them? It is a little scam D* does. Wake up they are not your friend. :nono2:


Please. I don't have enough fingers on my hand to count everything in my life that auto-renews without my intervention weather I want it to or not. You just have a beef for whatever reason. Take responsibility for your money and cancel the dang sports package you don't want.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

igator99 said:


> Really how nice. So if they have a glass of whiskey waiting for you and you really didn't want to have a drink, you don't mind them trying to charge you for it just because that is what you wanted in the past? It is a little scam.


Well, if he walked into the bar and they said, "Hey, do you want your usual?" and he answered let me think about it and went to the restroom and came back and sat down and they asked again. Then 10 minutes later he is still sitting at the bar and they bring him one and say buy it or leave.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> Really how nice. So if they have a glass of whiskey waiting for you and you really didn't want to have a drink, you don't mind them trying to charge you for it just because that is what you wanted in the past? It is a little scam. They are hoping you forget or you are to lazy to cancel. Also how many women do think pay the bill? They might just assume their husband wants it. If you buy a tire today at the local tire place, should then send you one next year and try to charge you for it? It is up to you to send it back or cancel the tire order! :lol:


would not be there if I did not want a drink, so that point is mute.

Exaclt how is it a scam if YOU forget to terminated the stated re-occurring monthly charge? Or you spouse assumes that you want to keep it? Sorry that does not fit the definition of the word "scam" Directv is not the only company in the world that sells subscriptions to things that auto-renew if you as the end user do not specificly tell them to cancel. Can name 4 other companies that I do business with that have the exact same subscription model.

The tire example is irrevelant and immatieral, tire purchases is it is not a subscription service.

Book clubs do the exact same thing - if you do not respond to the monthly email/snail mail the book is sent automaticly - this is is a lot closer to the senario then tires


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gregjones said:


> The point is this: if you want to cancel, cancel. If you don't, don't. Sunday Ticket is not so magically different that it is unreasonable to expect customers to understand it.


/QFE - take responsiblity for it and handle it correctly, read the TOS before you agree to something


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Gregjones -- I think Wingrider meant to type QED (or maybe QEF) to indicate he was agreeing with you.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Gregjones -- I think Wingrider meant to type QED (or maybe QEF) to indicate he was agreeing with you.


QED is a term I would have understood. I am a recovering former math major.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gregjones said:


> Is there a particular reason you are arguing the same position I am supporting? I'm not really sure why you would take issue with me agreeing with you.
> 
> This thread is done.


/QFE = Quoting for Emphasis - I agree 110 percent with what you say


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> /QFE = Quoting for Emphasis - I agree 110 percent with what you say


Well, then. Greg was right to scold you. You can't just go around making up TLAs that no one understands. WDYT? This place is confusing enough. It's one thing to use WUA, but AHS is absurd. Please CIO. Thx.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> would not be there if I did not want a drink, so that point is mute.
> 
> Exaclt how is it a scam if YOU forget to terminated the stated re-occurring monthly charge? Or you spouse assumes that you want to keep it? Sorry that does not fit the definition of the word "scam" Directv is not the only company in the world that sells subscriptions to things that auto-renew if you as the end user do not specificly tell them to cancel. Can name 4 other companies that I do business with that have the exact same subscription model.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. The tire example is a bad one. You don't subscribe to a tire service. However have you gone into one to replace one tire and they try to sell you all four? I usually politely say no thank you and find another store for next time. The book club or time life scenario is closer. I never went for those scams.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ok, they are idiots. It's like the people that don't check their credit card or bank statements every month and don't notice their credit card number was stolen months ago.
> 
> Number 1, if you don't pay attention to your bills every month you're an idiot. Number 2 if you don't notice your bill suddenly go up $50 you're an idiot. Society loves to prey on people like that. Have fun!
> 
> As mentioned, most people that get the sports packages want to have it every year and autorenew is a nice perk. If you don't want it anymore how hard is it to call and cancel? Not very.


Sorry I didn't mean to get yours in a wad. You really take this stuff like someone is insulting your girlfriend. Do you really like the way D* does business?


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> You make a good point. The tire example is a bad one. You don't subscribe to a tire service. However have you gone into one to replace one tire and they try to sell you all four? I usually politely say no thank you and find another store for next time. The book club or time life scenario is closer. I never went for those scams.


Yes I have, will evaluate the cost vs safety factor and determine if I need the tires now or can wait.

I belong to a couple of books clubs, I send them back, if >I< forget to mail the card back in the proper amount of time >I< either purchase the book or pay for the return postage - basicly I take responsiblity for my error


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

igator99 said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to get yours in a wad. You really take this stuff like someone is insulting your girlfriend. Do you really like the way D* does business?


LOL. Nothing to do with DirecTV. Could care less how they do business. If I don't like how a company does business then I don't do business with them. That simple. I don't like how Dish does business by taking channels off the air all the time with no notice. Thus I will never do business with Dish. I have Sunday Ticket and it autorenews for me and I don't have to do anything. I got Center Ice one year and didn't want it the next year so I called and canceled. It was so hard to do that, I shoulda asked for a credit for my trouble. 

No, I take issue with people that don't take responsibility for their own actions or their own life and just want to blame anyone and everyone for their idiocy or want the government to baby them and hand everything to them. And while we're at it lets just sue everyone because we're idiots. It is so prevalent in our society that it makes me ill sometimes. Watch the movie "Idiocracy" sometime. 

Oh well, back to our regularly scheduled "let's bash D* because we can't be bothered enough to check our bills so D* must be evil" thread. :lol: :hurah:


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to get yours in a wad. You really take this stuff like someone is insulting your girlfriend. Do you really like the way D* does business?


It's a business, they are in it to make a profit for the company and their stock holders. They set the rules, if I don't like there rules or policies I leave and take my business elsewhere. There are a number of business in my area that I have done that. They are not the only ones that use this model.

Has nothing to do with insults or people. it is a business and that is it, don't like leave. Myself and my family prefer the content that Directv provides, don't care if I have to submit to a commitment to get the content and the technology to watch it - if something else comes along that is light years ahead in content and technology I will consider moving, etf or not. Uverse is coming into my area, currently reviewing that technology, so maybe moving anyway


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> It's a business, they are in it to make a profit for the company and their stock holders. They set the rules, if I don't like there rules or policies I leave and take my business elsewhere. There are a number of business in my area that I have done that. They are not the only ones that use this model.
> 
> Has nothing to do with insults or people. it is a business and that is it, don't like leave. Myself and my family prefer the content that Directv provides, don't care if I have to submit to a commitment to get the content and the technology to watch it - if something else comes along that is light years ahead in content and technology I will consider moving, etf or not. Uverse is coming into my area, currently reviewing that technology, so maybe moving anyway


Uverse is suppose to be coming to my area. Let us know how you like it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Couple of minor points.

1. A point may be moot...not "mute".

2. Whether your spell checker detects when you use "weather" instead of "whether" depends on whether or not it incorporates a grammar checker.

3. I don't have a problem with the sports packages renewing, but since it is a yearly renewal and can't be cancelled after it starts DirecTV should send out a reminder or put a note on the bill. The $0.00 that appears on the bill is actually a bit misleading. First time I saw that on my DirecTV bill I thought I was getting the next season for free.

4. Turn off your TV for a few minutes and actually read your bills and read your contracts (before you sign/pay them). If you're too lazy to do that pay a lawyer to do it for you.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> 3. I don't have a problem with the sports packages renewing, but since it is a yearly renewal and can't be cancelled after it starts DirecTV should send out a reminder or put a note on the bill. The $0.00 that appears on the bill is actually a bit misleading. First time I saw that on my DirecTV bill I thought I was getting the next season for free.


I'd agree with you here partially. However, when I see a $50 charge on my bill at least 2 months before Sunday Ticket starts that just *might* be a clue to call in and cancel if I really don't want it.  I'm pretty sure the other packages also start billing at least a month or two before the season so you have plenty of time to cancel before the season starts if you want to.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I'd agree with you here partially. However, when I see a $50 charge on my bill at least 2 months before Sunday Ticket starts that just *might* be a clue to call in and cancel if I really don't want it.  I'm pretty sure the other packages also start billing at least a month or two before the season so you have plenty of time to cancel before the season starts if you want to.


There is no reason to auto renew other than trying to slip one past you. It is legal but a sneaky practice. Why can't they prorate it if it is a week into the season? Surely it doesn't cost much or anything to switch it off.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/directv-mastec-c83224.html

DirecTV needs to change and change quick.
This is why I don't like auto renews.
http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=31967


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I'm with bonscott on this one.

When I was subscribing to Sunday Ticket (up until last year), it was a 4 or 5 month payment plan. There was a month or two before they started charging where a line would show up on the bill for Sunday Ticket with a zero charge. Then when they actually did start charging, there were several months before the season started (and long before you could no longer cancel) where it would show the monthly installment on the bill.

Seems to me there is *PLENTY* of warning that the subscription is in place and you have *PLENTY* of time to cancel if you so desire. In fact, when I cancelled because they reneged on the free SF from draft weekend (and I found I could see all the football I wanted with what was broadcast outside of ST anyway) I had already paid for three installments and the fourth had been billed. I cancelled and all of those charges were credited to my account with no problem.

When they give a discounted price for auto-renewal customers (which they always did while I subbed), I found it more cost effective and I didn't have to do anything to renew but let it renew - cheaper and easier.


igator99 said:


> There is no reason to auto renew other than trying to slip one past you. It is legal but a sneaky practice.


The ONLY way this is "slipping it past you" is if the subscriber takes absolutely no responsibility for looking at their bill. I'm sorry, but *4 or 5 months of "heads ups"* is PLENTY of fair warning on DirecTV's part that if you don't want to renew for the upcoming season, you can call and cancel. Definitely the subscribers problem and not DirecTV's. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

The bottom line to this whole thread is; if you read and react to your bill and pay it on time, you don't have to worry about making the so called "Weed Out Customer List".


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I'm with bonscott on this one.
> 
> When I was subscribing to Sunday Ticket (up until last year), it was a 4 or 5 month payment plan. There was a month or two before they started charging where a line would show up on the bill for Sunday Ticket with a zero charge. Then when they actually did start charging, there were several months before the season started (and long before you could no longer cancel) where it would show the monthly installment on the bill.
> 
> ...


Why don't they put in your corner and you have to order it? Surely if you know when to cancel you can order it in time!? After all you can buy a sports subsciption in mid season at full price. There is no reason for this crap other than to "Slip It Past U". Bend and submit boy.:nono:


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

igator99 said:


> *Why don't they put in your corner and you have to order it?* Surely if you know when to cancel you can order it in time!? After all you can buy a sports subsciption in mid season at full price. There is no reason for this crap other than to "Slip It Past U". Bend and submit boy.:nono:


Aside from the fact that there appear to be enough words missing from your post that I really am not sure what you're talking about (the bolded sentence ????), I would be willing to bet that if you took a poll of all the Sunday Ticket subscribers who are on the auto-renew program they would (1) agree with/be happy with the way it works, (2) wouldn't mind the bit of a discount that goes along with it and (3) understand how it works, know what they would have to do if they wanted to cancel it before the season starts and not have to be babysat about the whole process.

You've made it abundantly clear that anything that DirecTV does that doesn't meet with YOUR approval is apparently not only bad business practice, but dirty, underhanded and only done to con people.

I think there would be millions of people who can handle their own business affairs - including the ongoing functioning of their DirecTV accounts - that would disagree with you.

And if that last comment was directed at me, I'm not bending over for anything. DirecTV is just that - TV - and I know their policies and work within that framework, and have been a satisfied customer for a decade. I have never had any reason to believe that they're slipping anything past me because they aren't. Oh ya, and I do read my bill each month, read Terms and Conditions when ordering something, and read what I sign! I highly recommend it!


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

And if that last comment was directed at me said:


> We have something in common. I've been a customer for 14 years. You don't think they have changed their business attitude a great deal over that time? They were awesome in the beginning. Now I feel like they tell all their customers to bend over.:eek2:


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> Uverse is suppose to be coming to my area. Let us know how you like it.


After doing some research, doubt I will go to it, it is lacking in a lot of features and content that are required at my household. Best I can find is 2 HD streams - have 3 HR2X's,1 HR10's, and 2 SD DVR's runnig in the household - the sales weasels for AT&T where slightly confused as to why I needed so many units


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

igator99 said:


> There is no reason to auto renew other than trying to slip one past you. It is legal but a sneaky practice. Why can't they prorate it if it is a week into the season? Surely it doesn't cost much or anything to switch it off.
> 
> http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/directv-mastec-c83224.html
> 
> ...


The only thing that needs to change is people need to take responsiblity to review and understand the agreements before they commit to them.

Directv is by far a minor entitiy in the auto renew ball park, this is nothing new, it has been around for at least 20 years. Can name 5 other companies that do it right now without even do any research. 3 of the 5 I do business with and have auto renew subscriptions.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

igator99 said:


> We have something in common. I've been a customer for 14 years. You don't think they have changed their business attitude a great deal over that time? They were awesome in the beginning.


I DO think they've changed over the last ten years, as have a lot of other businesses, but I have been aware of the changes they were making, how they affected me, and whether I was prepared to continue doing business with them. I was and still am.


> Now I feel like they tell all their customers to bend over.:eek2:


And that is where you and I differ.


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## SAFOOL (Aug 24, 2007)

I hate it when you can order a product online but have to call in to cancel. I don't know if that's the case with D since I got NFLST as a promo. For me it has nothing to do with auto renew, I just hate when it's simpler to get into something then to get out.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

SAFOOL said:


> I hate it when you can order a product online but have to call in to cancel. I don't know if that's the case with D since I got NFLST as a promo. For me it has nothing to do with auto renew, I just hate when it's simpler to get into something then to get out.


SAFOOL,

I agree with you there. DirecTV is more than willing to take the order online, but won't let you cancel some programming without a phone call. Of course, they're not the only ones that do this.

Strangely, when I canceled Sunday Ticket a few seasons back they had an automated system on the phone to do so.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

SAFOOL said:


> I hate it when you can order a product online but have to call in to cancel.


in years gone past ive had the same issue with aol and privacyguard. In both cases when they emailed me back and said i needed to call for security purposes, i stated that i didnt understand how canceling and NOT paying for a service was more dangerous than someone signing up for the service in my name.

then i said i will call in but this BETTER not be a ploy to get me to keep on subscribing. I got email back that i've been canceled!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Not worried....after 14+ years.....I have tenure.


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