# Production of the HR20's... an Update



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Over the past few weeks, with the release of the HR21-700... there has been speculation that the HR20's are ceasing production.

I have an update for you, parts of which can (and probably will) be confirmed by other forum boards that have access to some of the same information.

The HR20-700 *HAS* ceased production. 
PACE is only now production HR21-700's.

The HR20-100 *HAS NOT* ceased production.
It is still being produced.

--------------

Also, you have seen some reports that vendors are being requested to return their HR20's. This is *NOT* because of a "recall".

This is being done to increase their stock of HR20's so MODEL-TO-MODEL replacements can be done at this current time of low supply of the HR20.

This is all the info I have to share at this point, on this particular topic.
I do not have any additional information about the future of OTA, or anything like that.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Thanks for the info.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

So to be clear, DIRECTV is still producing the HR20-100, which is still capable of OTA reception and recording of ATSC signals.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

What company makes the HR20-100?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

good to hear..
now I have "colectors items" :lol: value goes up


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Thomson is manufacturer -100.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

How sad. And to think the -700 had better RF then the -100. I'm glad I got one when I did.

HR20-700, may your rest in peace, you are a great machine.

:crying: *plays taps*


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## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

The last I checked, my Costco had a pallet of HR20-700's (along with HR21's). If they are still there, is it worth getting a -700? That is, are there going to be sufficient CE releases to make this worthwhile from a testing standpoint?

I assume D* will still be improving/adding things to the -700 software for some time to come, no?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

leesweet said:


> The last I checked, my Costco had a pallet of HR20-700's (along with HR21's). If they are still there, is it worth getting a -700? That is, are there going to be sufficient CE releases to make this worthwhile from a testing standpoint?
> 
> I assume D* will still be improving/adding things to the -700 software for some time to come, no?


If I had to guess I would say the HR20-700 will still get the newest software first with the HR20-100 very close behind. Then the HR21-700 will get closer and closer as time goes on.

People have to remember even though the HR20-700's are not being made any more there still is more of them out there than any other HD DVR (HR series).


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

Interesting to know. I'm glad they're still making an HR20 version and I kinda figure the "recall" was just a way to stock back up. Hopefully the HR20 will see continued success. Of course, stopping production could just lead to a whole new receiver, HR30 ? -


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Coffey77 said:


> Of course, stopping production could just lead to a whole new receiver, HR30 ? -


No, it lead to the HR21-700.


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## Ronv (May 29, 2006)

As I understand it, aren't we just leasing these machines? Therefore if they break, we will be automatically "upgraded" to the HR20-100?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Ronv said:


> As I understand it, aren't we just leasing these machines? Therefore if they break, we will be automatically "upgraded" to the HR20-100?


I would not call it "upgraded". All the units are just about the same except the HR21 does not have OTA tuners.

If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. You will not have a choice what one you get.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

No way!!! The sky really ISN'T falling?!?!?! I guess I built that underground bunker for nothing.  :sure:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> I would not call it "upgraded". All the units are just about the same except the HR21 does not have OTA tuners.
> 
> If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. You will not have a choice what one you get.


Is that "authoritative" information, or just your "take" on things (not having any choice). It seems we could all have the best of both worlds if we could choose between needing/wanting OTA or not. That would only require a distinction between the HR20-100 (as -700 phases out) and the HR21-700.

If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers.

At this point, I'm not down enough on D* to assume they would replace a fully functional OTA capable DVR with a DVR that had no OTA. It makes no sense, and is going to cause nothing but strife.

Are you absolutely certain that we won't have a choice? If so, please disclose your source, so we can have a friendly chat with him/her. They need to understand the dimensions of the issue and not just blindly follow some corporate script.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

hasan said:


> Is that "authoritative" information, or just your "take" on things (not having any choice). It seems we could all have the best of both worlds if we could choose between needing/wanting OTA or not. That would only require a distinction between the HR20-100 (as -700 phases out) and the HR21-700.
> 
> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers.
> 
> ...


Why worry about it until it happens to you. You may never have to replace your exisitng box.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

azarby said:


> Why worry about it until it happens to you. You may never have to replace your exisitng box.


never say never


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## scottjf8 (Oct 5, 2006)

What happens to the HR20-700 CE's? I live for those!


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## michaelyork29 (Jun 22, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> What company makes the HR20-100?


Please refer to this post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1224935&postcount=1


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

scottjf8 said:


> What happens to the HR20-700 CE's? I live for those!


Nothing different... they will continue


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## SidneyGreenbaum (Nov 5, 2007)

What's the difference between Hr20-100 and the HR20-700


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## albriedis (Sep 29, 2007)

SidneyGreenbaum said:


> What's the difference between Hr20-100 and the HR20-700


HR20-600


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

SidneyGreenbaum said:


> What's the difference between Hr20-100 and the HR20-700





albriedis said:


> HR20-600


Haha! The difference is which company manufactured the receivers, and past that, which receiver is getting more software updates, currently being the -700 (Pace). The -100 is Thomson (RCA).
Hardware wise, as far as Im aware they're both built to the same specifications.


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## Ronv (May 29, 2006)

hasan said:


> Snip
> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers./snip


Couldn't have said it better...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

scottjf8 said:


> What happens to the HR20-700 CE's? I live for those!


They'll keep coming...heck....we're still getting H20-600 updates and those receiver units are much older yet....


hasan said:


> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement.


I have 2 HR20-700's, and would take 2 HR21's as replacements in a heartbeat. OTA just is not at all important here.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

I would have guessed D* would wait until Directv11 is active and more cities have HD-LIL before stopping the HR20-700's. Does this mean my 3 HR20-700's are now collector's items?


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## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nothing different... they will continue


Thanks, Earl, that was the answer I was looking for... if Costco still has that pallet, I'll pick one up and let y'all know that all the HR20-700's haven't been 'recalled'.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I got Direct TV installed as a new customer Thursday. I got Two HR20-100s

The installer had a 3 more on the truck he also had Two HR21s for those that did not request OTA Ant installs.

Here in Omaha I guess they come prepared.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Will subscribers be able to chose?

Maybe let us pay a little extra and get the OTA?

What about markets that do not have HD locals yet? I know they are coming "soon" but that was the statement about CIR in February of 2006 too.

- Craig


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## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

You might want to take a look at the monster thread about the HR20-HR21 OTA/no OTA 'discussion'... a lot more there about the OTA 'solution' for the HR21. (I quoted that because no one knows what it is yet...)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106995


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

azarby said:


> Why worry about it until it happens to you. You may never have to replace your exisitng box.


Because people just start spouting this and that like they are some kind of authority or expert. When in fact they are just guessing. Nothing wrong with sorting that out is there?


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The HR20-700 *HAS* ceased production.
> PACE is only now production HR21-700's.
> 
> The HR20-100 *HAS NOT* ceased production.
> It is still being produced.


Obviously it is good that there is still a HR20. But for all of us sniffing all over the end of production of the HR20-700, this certainly means we were right to quesiton everything like we did. So for all of you nay-sayers I have nothing but rasberries for you!

:raspberry :raspberry :raspberry :raspberry :raspberry


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

I have been holding off getting a HR-20 until I get the new wide, wide screen
HDtv. Now that the HR-20 is obsolete should I dash out and get one while
they are still around, run out and get my new tv now - or should I go ahead and 
wait and take the HR-21 (without OTA tuner) (and shop some more for giant tv's)

Another thing bothers me, we are still getting update/fixes for the R-15 & HR20, so will the HR21 be plagued with problems like the R-15, which I now like better than the tivo, except for that nasty little ole' buffer thing.

Help! advice please: HR-20 or HR-21?
p.s.

I plan to keep the R-15-500 in service (back-up?)

thanks, y'all


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> I would not call it "upgraded". All the units are just about the same except the HR21 does not have OTA tuners.
> 
> If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. You will not have a choice what one you get.


Had six 100s, still have the only one that worked. Sorry to see the 700 discontinued. I have another 700 that's started to act up and I expect to have to go thru the replacement process soon. Oh, goody. Maybe I'll be able to get a 21 as a replacement.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

bhanks said:


> I have been holding off getting a HR-20 until I get the new wide, wide screen
> HDtv. Now that the HR-20 is obsolete should I dash out and get one while
> they are still around, run out and get my new tv now - or should I go ahead and
> wait and take the HR-21 (without OTA tuner) (and shop some more for giant tv's)
> ...


The HR20 is not obsolete the are just not making the -700's anymore. They are still making the -100's and both units will keep getting software updates and new features.

If you need an OTA I would go get an HR20 from a store while you can find them. Plus if you order a HD DVR through DirecTV you will not be able to choose what one you get.

If you are not ready to buy an HDTV yet you can still use the HR20/21 on an SD TV. Just set it to 480i only and 4x3. You will be able to watch the HD channels and they will look very good but just be in letterbox.


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## mdernst (Dec 24, 2005)

bhanks said:


> Help! advice please: HR-20 or HR-21?


This is simple, so I'll take this one. 

Do you want OTA capabilities now or not? If so, you want the HR-20, if not you probably don't care whether you get the HR-20 or HR-21 and you can make your decision based on what color receiver you want.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Were I you, I would get the Panasonic 50 or 58 inch plasma. The 50 goes for about $1400-1900. The 58" goes for about $2000-2400. Great picture in HD or SD.

Were I you, I would take a shot at the HR21 and hope for the best. Buy it somewhere that you can return it if it makes an undue amount of noise or won't boot up, etc. If you get a 21 from D* and something is wrong with it initially you will probably end up with an HR200-100. Once you activate it, they own it.

Were I you, I would hurry up and buy now. Life is too short too screw around not get the good stuff as soon as you can. Buy a Sony upscaler DVD player to go with that big screen. Turns a letterbox DVD into almost 1080i.



bhanks said:


> I have been holding off getting a HR-20 until I get the new wide, wide screen
> HDtv. Now that the HR-20 is obsolete should I dash out and get one while
> they are still around, run out and get my new tv now - or should I go ahead and
> wait and take the HR-21 (without OTA tuner) (and shop some more for giant tv's)
> ...


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> The HR20 is not obsolete the are just not making the -700's anymore. They are still making the -100's and both units will keep getting software updates and new features.
> 
> If you need an OTA I would go get an HR20 from a store while you can find them. Plus if you order a HD DVR through DirecTV you will not be able to choose what one you get.
> 
> If you are not ready to buy an HDTV yet you can still use the HR20/21 on an SD TV. Just set it to 480i only and 4x3. You will be able to watch the HD channels and they will look very good but just be in letterbox.


BMoreR, 
thanks for your and the others replies. I get OTA "poorly" from the Dallas area, antennas at apx 52 mi. and can live without it.
If the HR20 is not obsolete, what would one gain buying the HR21.
I guess I am just afraid I will buy the wrong one and later regret it. 
I already have a HDTV, its just small and I don't really need a larger one.
I just Want one." 
cheers..


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

bhanks said:


> BMoreR,
> thanks for your and the others replies. I get OTA "poorly" from the Dallas area, antennas at apx 52 mi. and can live without it.
> If the HR20 is not obsolete, what would one gain buying the HR21.
> I guess I am just afraid I will buy the wrong one and later regret it.
> ...


HR21 is black and the HR20 is silver

HR21 does not have an OTA tuner and the HR20 does.

HR21 has a 2nd ethernet port that can be used as a two port network switch. The HR20-700 only has one and the -100 has two but the 2nd is not used for anything and probably never will be.

The HR21 is behind on software right now but will catch up and have all the same features.

That is it.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bhanks said:


> BMoreR,
> thanks for your and the others replies. I get OTA "poorly" from the Dallas area, antennas at apx 52 mi. and can live without it.
> If the HR20 is not obsolete, what would one gain buying the HR21.
> I guess I am just afraid I will buy the wrong one and later regret it.
> ...


It appears that basically the HR21 will be the model that anyone will get unless you specifically as for the HR20. The only real difference is the HR21 doesn't have OTA. So if you don't care about OTA then it matters not what model you get.

1) Want OTA - You want an HR20
2) Don't need OTA - You don't care which you get. HR21 is slightly newer though and in black.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think that's right, Scott, and hopefully that will mean that subscribers who really use OTA should have the access they want to HR20-100s.


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## jmschnur (Aug 30, 2006)

My HR20-700 was just replaced with a refurbished HR20-100. So the OTA capiblitiy was retained.



Stuart Sweet said:


> I think that's right, Scott, and hopefully that will
> 
> mean that subscribers who really use OTA should have the access they want to HR20-100s.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. You will not have a choice what one you get.


If the above is a true statement "Houston, we still have a problem."

Bill


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## tiggerbo (Jun 29, 2006)

*My 700 Broke And They Sent Me The 100. I Received The 100 On Wed. It Runs MUCH cooler THAN the 700.*


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## OconRecon (Sep 20, 2006)

leesweet said:


> You might want to take a look at the monster thread about the HR20-HR21 OTA/no OTA 'discussion'... a lot more there about the OTA 'solution' for the HR21. (I quoted that because no one knows what it is yet...)
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106995


Thanks for the link. The first two posts reassure OTA reception will live on.


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## TommyV (Jan 5, 2007)

Last time I checked DirecTV does not offer the CW in HD. So basically I need OTA because I will not watch Supernatural and Smallville in SD. All the other OTA channels I could live without though it is nice to have them.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

TommyV said:


> Last time I checked DirecTV does not offer the CW in HD.


It's currently not available as a national DNS channel, but in several markets CD is available in HD as a LIL channel.


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## TommyV (Jan 5, 2007)

What are DNS and LIL channels?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

DNS are the "distant network" channels, usually you'd need a waiver to get them if there isn't a local affiliate available in your area.

LIL is "Local-in-Local", referring to a local network affiliate in the local market.


Example: Your city may have CBS, NBC and CW available locally as LIL, but no ABC, so you could apply for a waiver to get the national feed of ABC (provided on DIRECTV either by KABC in LA or WABC in NY).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bhanks said:


> If the HR20 is not obsolete, what would one gain buying the HR21.


Not having to put up with an HR20-100. Have had six 100s and one has worked and I am afraid to hook up an eSATA to it. Of course, they were all refurbished, but...

This is just my personal opinion, I don't need or want to know how many people love their 100s and have eSATAs hooked up successfully. I think the 100 is fecal matter.


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## Loppy101 (Jul 22, 2007)

hasan said:


> Is that "authoritative" information, or just your "take" on things (not having any choice). It seems we could all have the best of both worlds if we could choose between needing/wanting OTA or not. That would only require a distinction between the HR20-100 (as -700 phases out) and the HR21-700.
> 
> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers.
> 
> ...


 It already happened. My brand new H20-100 went out after 1 day (the telephone modem stopped working), so I called, and received a refurbished unit in a plain box. I would not accept an old (read the seriel no.) model, so I pounded HARD on the newly installed unit, the modem started working, and I sent their old, piece of used crap back to them.


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## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

Anyone who's had both an HR20-700 & HR20-100, and lives in a marginal OTA reception area: 

Can you tell any difference in OTA tuner performance between the two models?


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## rjf (Mar 9, 2007)

TommyV said:


> Last time I checked DirecTV does not offer the CW in HD. So basically I need OTA because I will not watch Supernatural and Smallville in SD. All the other OTA channels I could live without though it is nice to have them.


i get it in HD in L.A. smallville is stunning.


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## sjr14221 (Sep 12, 2007)

Loppy101 said:


> It already happened. My brand new H20-100 went out after 1 day (the telephone modem stopped working), so I called, and received a refurbished unit in a plain box. I would not accept an old (read the seriel no.) model, so I pounded HARD on the newly installed unit, the modem started working, and I sent their old, piece of used crap back to them.


I am having a similar situation. I got my brand new HR20-100, it won't power back on from standby (giving a 771 error when I finally get it to reboot) and the phone line doesn't work from the setup menu.

I got a refurb hr20-700 in the mail on Saturday. I haven't hooked it up. I would rather keep my new unit than a refurb, unless the 700 has a better history of working (obviously, this particular 700 didn't work or it wouldn't be a refurb).

I have solved the 771 problem for now by not turning the 100 to standby. It doesn't help the phone modem (maybe I should give it a pound, too)!

I am now reconsidering going with the protection plan if these units are so unreliable!


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

CJTE said:


> Haha! The difference is which company manufactured the receivers, and past that, which receiver is getting more software updates, currently being the -700 (Pace). The -100 is Thomson (RCA).
> Hardware wise, as far as Im aware they're both built to the same specifications.


If the hardware is identical, why would separate software versions/releases be necessary?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigerDriver said:


> If the hardware is identical, why would separate software versions/releases be necessary?


Key word in his statement: specifications.

Dosen't mecessarily mean it has exactly the same chips and components inside... (which they don't as shown by all the internal photos)...

The core chips are the same, but there is just enough "differences" to hence require different builds.


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Key word in his statement: specifications.
> 
> Dosen't mecessarily mean it has exactly the same chips and components inside... (which they don't as shown by all the internal photos)...
> 
> The core chips are the same, but there is just enough "differences" to hence require different builds.


IOW, built to the same _functional_ specifications.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

You get what they send you. The CSRs apparently have no power to select models to replace defective units. I've tried many times and still got whatever FedEx had handy in their secret D* warehouse. Experience has proven me correct enough to know that when I get a replacement (can't bring myself to call them refurbs anymore, nobody touches them other than FedEx) it will be whatever is handy. And won't work correctly.



hasan said:


> Is that "authoritative" information, or just your "take" on things (not having any choice). It seems we could all have the best of both worlds if we could choose between needing/wanting OTA or not. That would only require a distinction between the HR20-100 (as -700 phases out) and the HR21-700.
> 
> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers.
> 
> ...


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Key word in his statement: specifications.
> 
> Dosen't mecessarily mean it has exactly the same chips and components inside... (which they don't as shown by all the internal photos)...
> 
> The core chips are the same, but there is just enough "differences" to hence require different builds.


IOW, built to the same _functional_ specifications.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigerDriver said:


> IOW, built to the same _functional_ specifications.


Did you just re-post that, or did the forum duplicate the post?


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

When I first responded earlier today, I hit submit and walked away. When I returned a few minutes ago, I noticed that Firefox had returned an error message, so I hit submit again. Sorry for the pollution.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigerDriver said:


> When I first responded earlier today, I hit submit and walked away. When I returned a few minutes ago, I noticed that Firefox had returned an error message, so I hit submit again. Sorry for the pollution.


No problem... just wanted to make sure..


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## Tuckster (Nov 13, 2007)

Just left my local BB and CC to see which they had. BB had only the HR21 but CC had the HR20 !! I'm wondering if I can buy one and walk out the store with it or will they just sign me up ??? I must have the OTA option or I'm not switching to DTV.
CC has a deal as well if you buy a TV at 999 they give you 300 off and a big DTV discount ..... going back tomorrow morning.


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## jmschnur (Aug 30, 2006)

the 100 is more sensitive.



arxaw said:


> Anyone who's had both an HR20-700 & HR20-100, and lives in a marginal OTA reception area:
> 
> Can you tell any difference in OTA tuner performance between the two models?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Just curious, but does anyone know how many HR20-700's are left out there, or what their last production numbers were?

Thanks


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> HR21 is black and the HR20 is silver
> 
> HR21 does not have an OTA tuner and the HR20 does.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...one of my HR20's is black


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Then you have a collector's edition.


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## bt-rtp (Dec 30, 2005)

jmschnur said:


> the 100 is more sensitive.


What specifically does "more sensitive" mean ?


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The HR20-700 *HAS* ceased production.
> PACE is only now production HR21-700's


I guess my source was pretty accurate :lol:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=105256


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## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

jmschnur said:


> the 100 is more sensitive.


Better at dealing with multipath, fringe signals, or both?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Was at both BB and CC last night (across the street from each other) and they both had 2 HR20-700's left, so they are out there, you just have to look for them. Not sure if they had any HR20-100's, didn't look for them.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Two things that I want to point out in this thread.

1) HR20-100 has a 20GB bigger hard drive than an HR20-700. That is the equivalent of 4+ (SS) DVD's of extra space, thats about an extra 16+ hours of SD recordings that can fit into that space.

2) Costco is a Product Bone Yard, the last place for older models. If any of you have worked at Costco or know someone who has you will know that Costco is the place that companies call up when they want to dump a whole lot of outdated merchandise. This is not a rub on HR20-700 owners and I am just letting you know that if you see tons of 700's at Costco it's because D* is trying to get rid of them.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> 2) Costco is a Product Bone Yard, the last place for older models. If any of you have worked at Costco or know someone who has you will know that Costco is the place that companies call up when they want to dump a whole lot of outdated merchandise. This is not a rub on HR20-700 owners and I am just letting you know that if you see tons of 700's at Costco it's because D* is trying to get rid of them.


Interesting, because both of the Costcos near me have pallets of HR21's, no HR20-700's to be found.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Because they have run out and they are still distributors so guess what! 
Ask the manager if he would prefer the HR20-700 to the HR21's and he would tell you "Yessssss.." .
They where probably making double the Markup on the HR20-700's than they are on the HR21's



theratpatrol said:


> Interesting, because both of the Costcos near me have pallets of HR21's, no HR20-700's to be found.


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> 2) Costco is a Product Bone Yard, the last place for older models.


This is one of the urban legends that seems to survive year after year. Please provide some form of proof.

Dave


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> Interesting, because both of the Costcos near me have pallets of HR21's, no HR20-700's to be found.


Same here...GM of the local Costco said they shipped all the HR20s back for HR21s. I guess the Vizio TVs that showed up at Costco first were also ready for the boneyard as well.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

BMoreRavens said:


> If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. You will not have a choice what one you get.


I have an HR20-100 with a bad modem. No big deal, but since it is under warranty, I asked for a replacement. DirecTV's service guy arrives and has only HR21's. I said I needed an HR20. He said no problem and he'd keep my service order open. He added that I might have to wait a week or so, but they would send an HR20 out as soon as they received some in.

I would say that qualifies as a choice, wouldn't you?  I can only get PBS OTA, as well as a few other channels I watch OTA, so it's important for me to have OTA capability.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

ShiningBengal said:


> I have an HR20-100 with a bad modem. No big deal, but since it is under warranty, I asked for a replacement. DirecTV's service guy arrives and has only HR21's. I said I needed an HR20. He said no problem and he'd keep my service order open. He added that I might have to wait a week or so, but they would send an HR20 out as soon as they received some in.
> 
> I would say that qualifies as a choice, wouldn't you?  I can only get PBS OTA, as well as a few other channels I watch OTA, so it's important for me to have OTA capability.


Not really because there is still no guarantee you will get an HR20. The installer cannot guarantee it. He may act like he can. Plus you still did not get it on the first try and you had to waste your time being there for nothing.


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## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

But he will still probably get one. And he didn't have to accept a stupid box with no OTA.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah, but how long will it take him to get one??


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

BMoreRavens said:


> Not really because there is still no guarantee you will get an HR20. The installer cannot guarantee it. He may act like he can. Plus you still did not get it on the first try and you had to waste your time being there for nothing.


There is also no guarantee I will be alive in a week. I wasted no time. I asked for an early Saturday appointment since I would be home anyway. That's when the DirecTV service guy arrived--exactly as I was promised. It was a "first try" for them, not for me.

I prefer to believe that he had no reason to lie to me, since he will be the one who comes out to do the swap.

Why would I choose to doubt someone who had no axe to grind? As far as SDizzle's remark, even if I have to wait six months, I won't have been inconvenienced.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

ShiningBengal said:


> There is also no guarantee I will be alive in a week. I wasted no time. I asked for an early Saturday appointment since I would be home anyway. That's when the DirecTV service guy arrived--exactly as I was promised. It was a "first try" for them, not for me.
> 
> I prefer to believe that he had no reason to lie to me, since he will be the one who comes out to do the swap.
> 
> Why would I choose to doubt someone who had no axe to grind? As far as SDizzle's remark, even if I have to wait six months, I won't have been inconvenienced.


I am not saying you should doubt him and hopefully you do get what you want.

But he cannot guarantee they will get HR20's in stock and if they do that one will make it to you. He is a installer. He does not control their inventory of what they get and what goes where.

I would suggest calling DirecTV and the local install office to make sure.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

theratpatrol said:


> Interesting, because both of the Costcos near me have pallets of HR21's, no HR20-700's to be found.


Same here. My local Costco has no HR20's, but a couple of pallets of HR21's were in view at my last visit.

While it may be true that Costco handles some discontinued models, it is completely untrue that this is all they handle.

Take a look at their HDTV lineup. Huge assortment, and all current models. Plus you get 90 day return privilege and an additional one year warranty on top of the manufacturer's warranty.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

BMoreRavens said:


> I am not saying you should doubt him and hopefully you do get what you want.
> 
> But he cannot guarantee they will get HR20's in stock and if they do that one will make it to you. He is a installer. He does not control their inventory of what they get and what goes where.
> 
> I would suggest calling DirecTV and the local install office to make sure.


No need to. The service guy called the Twin Cities warehouses himself (in my presence) and that's what they told him. There are two local warehouses and he called both of them. They both told him there should be additional HR20's in a week or so. Coincidence?

Seriously, what you say may be true. But I won't lose any sleep over it in any case. I expect I will get what was promised. If not, I will keep the guy with the bad modem, since I can order PPV's online and that's really the only thing the modem is necessary for.


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## Mr. Big (Nov 5, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> Not really because there is still no guarantee you will get an HR20. The installer cannot guarantee it. He may act like he can. Plus you still did not get it on the first try and you had to waste your time being there for nothing.


Ironwood (the local D* contract installers here in Los Angeles) has a stock of HR20-100's in their warehouse that they'll send out only if it's requested during your initial request with D* (a supervisor at Ironwood told me that during a 3-way conference call with D*). The installers that I've talked to don't know this and they'll tell you that the HR20's have been discontinued. They tried to replace my defective HR20 with an HR21 and I made them bring back an HR20 later in the day.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Picked up the last, lonely HR20-700S at my local BestBuy Friday. The seal on the box was broken, but nothing inside had been touched. The access card was still sealed in the cellophane. It has an RC64 remote and a July '07 manufacture date.


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## AMike (Nov 21, 2005)

I have been on a quest to find an HR20-700. While I was on the road last week in Jackson, MS, I went to the Best Buy and Circuit City but no success. When I arrived home, I went to the local BB and CC and again, they only had the HR21's. This weekend, we went to visit my dad who lives in Alabama. In Montgomery, we passed a Cosco during our drive. I told my wife that we had to stop in there and sure enough they had a pallet stacked with HR20-700's. I had to get one.


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> I would not call it "upgraded". All the units are just about the same except the HR21 does not have OTA tuners.
> 
> If the unit does break it will be replaced with a refurbished HR20-700, HR20-100, or HR21-700. *You will not have a choice what one you get*.





hasan said:


> Is that "authoritative" information, or just your "take" on things (not having any choice). It seems we could all have the best of both worlds if we could choose between needing/wanting OTA or not. That would only require a distinction between the HR20-100 (as -700 phases out) and the HR21-700.
> 
> If I have an OTA HR20-xxx, I would NOT accept a non-OTA replacement. The idea that an OTA capable receiver is available, and D* couldn't be bothered to insure that you were sent one, reflects poorly on D*'s commitment to their customers.
> 
> ...





BMoreRavens said:


> Not really because there is still no guarantee you will get an HR20. The installer cannot guarantee it. He may act like he can. Plus you still did not get it on the first try and you had to waste your time being there for nothing.


I noticed that you have never responded to the post from last week (as I recall) asking what you are basing this on. If you have any facts, state them, but if they are merely uniformed speculation on your part (AKA BS), please quit attempting to mislead people.

Exactly WHY do you think that people who are paying for a service are helpless when dealing with the vendor of that service? I know that the state laws in this state will not allow a lot of things some keep spouting off (such as a changing of terms of a contract without your knowledge, etc.) and I have a feeling that if I bought a "new" unit and it was really a "refurb", guess who would get fined? Hint: Its not going to be me. Also, if they are charging me for services they cannot or will not provide, then they have reneged on the contract and broken it, so I can do whatever I wish at that point, legally they have no way to enforce my contract against me, when they have violated the terms of the agreement.

IF I sign up for a 5 year contract with D* and the box I have is supposed to receive locals and that is a part of the original contract, D* has broken the contract by refusing to provide me with "a like" box with the same or more capabilities or they are in violation of the contract you made with them. (Based on the Uniform Commercial Code definition of contractual law as I remember it, but then, its been a long time since I took contract law.) Contracts work BOTH ways, D* can no more violate the terms of a contract that you can.

In a nutshell, D* can replace a HR20-700 with a HR20-700 or HR20-100 or anything like that, however, it can NOT replace it with an HR21-anything UNLESS it provides the level of functionality that was in your HR20-xxx box through another means (be it USB adapter, whatever.) D*'s legal staff is NOT a bunch of morons looking to have a class action suit (and all the negative publicity it would bring them) filed against them that they would enter knowing they were going to lose based on BASIC contract law. D* has taken your $$$, be it 19$ (as some users report) or 299$ (the list price) and that makes no difference in the area of what the contract is agreeing on.

Personally, if one of my HR20-700s breaks and is replaced, D* had better send me something with the same level of functionality as the unit I have already or the State Attorney General will be all over them like a cheap suit.  If you are anyone else gets messed over and loses functionality, its your own fault if you do not stand up for your rights as a consumer.

Note: I am not claiming to be a lawyer and do NOT practice law, am just an engineer who wanted to get more than a basic education while in school (and managed to learn something useful while at it.)


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

AMike said:


> I have been on a quest to find an HR20-700. While I was on the road last week in Jackson, MS, I went to the Best Buy and Circuit City but no success. When I arrived home, I went to the local BB and CC and again, they only had the HR21's. This weekend, we went to visit my dad who lives in Alabama. In Montgomery, we passed a Cosco during our drive. I told my wife that we had to stop in there and sure enough they had a pallet stacked with HR20-700's. I had to get one.


The local Costco had pallets (as of yesterday) of the HR20s & H20s available as of yesterday. We are, however, in an area that is a top 50 DMA and no HD locals from D*. I would have to make the assumption that D* will continue to ship that store the same units until the HD locals are available.

The real bummer is that Costco has NOT made the units available on Costco.com. Maybe the fact that they are selling both models (HR20s some places and HR21s at others) is why they have not done that?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> Note: I am not claiming to be a lawyer and do NOT practice law, am just an engineer who wanted to get more than a basic education while in school (and managed to learn something useful while at it.)


Well, I AM a lawyer(*), AND an engineer, and I'd be very careful passing off some of the things you're saying as "fact." I'm all for upholding consumer rights but all I will say in this instance is "Good luck" and "I hope you read _Don Quixoti_ in school . . ." 

(*) But I am NOT licensed in Kentucky.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MIKE0616,

It's great that you want the world to be perfect. Everyone should strive for that. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world that we live in. All of the "speculation" has been based on observation .. that's all. ShiningBengal has been told that there are HR20s on the way .. apparently the HR20-100 is still in production. It simply appears that demand has outpaced supply in this case. Some folks are expecting an HR20 only to receive an HR21. Many, Many folks are going to be very happy with the HR21 but some aren't. If you find yourself in a situation where you haven't been fully satisfied then you simply need to get on the phone with DIRECTV and get it worked out .. no need to get the State Attorney General involved as I suspect that path will only be fraught with delay.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, I'm headed to Costco tonight for the last time until after the holidays, I'll report what I see.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, I'm headed to Costco tonight for the last time until after the holidays, I'll report what I see.


I checked BB near my house yesterday and saw only the HR21-700 (DVR) and the H21-200 (non-DVR) systems. I did not ask about what might be in the back .. It's been a while since I've been to costco and I'm just not gonna ask my wife to look :lol: (Costco is on her way to/from work).


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> I guess my source was pretty accurate :lol:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=105256


Wow.

Your thread was even closed when it was "proven" that you were completely wrong.

- Craig


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

LameLefty said:


> Well, I AM a lawyer(*), AND an engineer, and I'd be very careful passing off some of the things you're saying as "fact." I'm all for upholding consumer rights but all I will say in this instance is "Good luck" and "I hope you read _Don Quixoti_ in school . . ."
> 
> (*) But I am NOT licensed in Kentucky.


As a non-lawyer, I would caution ANYONE against starting a lawsuit over such a trivial issue. It can get nasty, and very expensive.

And for the record, it's _Don Quixote_ (Kee-HO-tay, not Kee-HO-tee)


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## randyk47 (Aug 21, 2006)

San Antonio Costco (North 281 location) had about 8 H20's ($84 and change) and a complete pallet load of HR21's ($264 and change). No H21's or HR20's. San Antonio has locals on D* so I'm not totally surprised that D* would ship HR21's this direction and would expect they'll follow up with H21's in the same way.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Let's keep this thread friendly, OK?


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## jmagnus (Jan 16, 2007)

I had to replace a defective HR20-100 over the weekend (problem getting HD signal) and after the tech checked it out he said he would be back Sunday (yesterday) with an HR21 replacement. Turns out he brought a refurbished HR20-700. He explained that they (Mastec) returned all their HR21's because they would not work with the Single Wire Multi Switch. Don't know if this was BS but I thought it was interesting. Frankly, I was glad to get a 700. CID works great and the 100 was always more troublesome than my other 700. My other 700 has been chugging along well since day one.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

The HR21 was built SWM ready (as was the HR20) - SAT1 on the HR21 is even labled for SWM input. Several of the field testers used the HR21 with an SWM.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

say-what said:


> The HR21 was built SWM ready (as was the HR20) - SAT1 on the HR21 is even labled for SWM input. Several of the field testers used the HR21 with an SWM.


Looking forward to full SWM support, Need it now with the popularity of the HR21s.

Also like the new slick black finish on the HR21/H21s.

Matt


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

jmagnus said:


> I had to replace a defective HR20-100 over the weekend (problem getting HD signal) and after the tech checked it out he said he would be back Sunday (yesterday) with an HR21 replacement. Turns out he brought a refurbished HR20-700. He explained that they (Mastec) returned all their HR21's because they would not work with the Single Wire Multi Switch. Don't know if this was BS but I thought it was interesting. Frankly, I was glad to get a 700. CID works great and the 100 was always more troublesome than my other 700. My other 700 has been chugging along well since day one.


I didn't think the SWM was available yet? Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Seems the SWM is starting to make a slow appearance .. It's not easy to get and you may have to be in the right area to receive one.

The HR21 definitely support SWM .. I'd venture to guess that you received an HR20 as a luck in the draw or perhaps you mentioned that you use OTA and they actually noted it properly ..


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Good night and good riddance! I have far better success with my HR21 - 700, but without all of the new features...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> I didn't think the SWM was available yet? Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about?


The installers (with some exceptions) know how to install dishes improperly, multiswitches improperly and know pretty much nothing about HR*s or SWMs. Haven't we proven that in that long and interesting thread about installers?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Seems the SWM is starting to make a slow appearance .. It's not easy to get and you may have to be in the right area to receive one.
> 
> The HR21 definitely support SWM .. I'd venture to guess that you received an HR20 as a luck in the draw or perhaps you mentioned that you use OTA and they actually noted it properly ..


My memory fails me. Isn't there a downside to SWM? Do you have to connect it directly to the dish?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> My memory fails me. Isn't there a downside to SWM? Do you have to connect it directly to the dish?


What do you mean by "directly" to the dish....

You don't have to PHYSICALLY attach the SWM to your dish.

But you do have to connect all 4 ouputs of the dish to the inputs of the SWM.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

rich584 said:


> My memory fails me. Isn't there a downside to SWM? Do you have to connect it directly to the dish?


It's no different than connecting a multiswitch to your dish.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

litzdog911 said:


> It's no different than connecting a multiswitch to your dish.


True .. SWM stands for Single Wire Multiswitch, so this statement makes a lot of sense.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

So does anyone else remember reading on here that the HR20's were going to be $99.00 by Christmas? Or did I read that wrong?

Thanks


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

theratpatrol said:


> So does anyone else remember reading on here that the HR20's were going to be $99.00 by Christmas? Or did I read that wrong?
> 
> Thanks


Hard to have a low price on HR20's when there are very few available (at any price) in retail stores. None of the Costco's in the Twin Cities has them, while the HR21's are readily available, but at $269.99.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

BMoreRavens said:


> Not really because there is still no guarantee you will get an HR20. The installer cannot guarantee it. He may act like he can. Plus you still did not get it on the first try and you had to waste your time being there for nothing.


For the record, I received a brand new (not refurbished) HR20-100. Installers were backed way up, so I asked DirecTV to send one directly to me. It came by FedEx two days later. No need to make an appointment with an installer.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

theratpatrol said:


> So does anyone else remember reading on here that the HR20's were going to be $99.00 by Christmas? Or did I read that wrong?
> 
> Thanks


If someone did say that... they are smoking something.

Right now, there are no indications that the HR20/21 would go below their $299 price anytime soon... (doesn't mean you won't get it for less because of deals and offers... but $99 would be nearly $300 below it's manufacturing cost as of now).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Besides the fact that they don't need to lower the price if they are selling like hotcakes and can't keep up with the installs as it is.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Besides the fact that they don't need to lower the price if they are selling like hotcakes and can't keep up with the installs as it is.


100% correct.

They still have backlogs for several weeks in some markets..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> So does anyone else remember reading on here that the HR20's were going to be $99.00 by Christmas? Or did I read that wrong?
> 
> Thanks


I think this is another one of those "R" things. H20/21 verses HR.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> So does anyone else remember reading on here that the HR20's were going to be $99.00 by Christmas? Or did I read that wrong?
> 
> Thanks


You read it right. I posted that based on one of Swanni's newsletters. Believe it or not, I am still hoping he got it right. Doesn't look too good now tho, does it?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think this is another one of those "R" things. H20/21 verses HR.


No, Swanni said the HR20s would be $99 for the holidays and the H20s would be really low priced. He was quite specific. He has to be right once in a while and I hoped it would be the price of the HR20. At the time he posted it nobody was talking about the 21s.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If someone did say that... they are smoking something.
> 
> Right now, there are no indications that the HR20/21 would go below their $299 price anytime soon... (doesn't mean you won't get it for less because of deals and offers... but $99 would be nearly $300 below it's manufacturing cost as of now).


That was a Swanni prediction.

Rich


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

ShiningBengal said:


> For the record, I received a brand new (not refurbished) HR20-100. Installers were backed way up, so I asked DirecTV to send one directly to me. It came by FedEx two days later. No need to make an appointment with an installer.


From what have seen in the past posted here.....that is a rarity and an exception to the norm.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> From what have seen in the past posted here.....that is a rarity and an exception to the norm.


When you belong to the Protection Plan you get the replacements in a day or two.

Rich


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

rich584 said:


> When you belong to the Protection Plan you get the replacements in a day or two.
> 
> Rich


Hey Rich..... you changed avatars....didn't recognize you there for a minute.

Your statement is very true. I didn't relaize the PP was part of the conversation. I must have missed that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Hey Rich..... you changed avatars....didn't recognize you there for a minute.
> 
> Your statement is very true. I didn't relaize the PP was part of the conversation. I must have missed that.


Couldn't stand the Jet's avatar anymore. So easy being a Jets fan, no great expectations, the season is short, usually lasts 2 or 3 games then the bottom falls out.

I've been meaning to start a Protection Plan thread, got yelled at the last time I started ranting about how much money you can save on a thread that had nothing to do with the PP, but if I start a thread, I shouldn't get smacked around too much.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I've been meaning to start a Protection Plan thread, got yelled at the last time I started ranting about how much money you can save on a thread that had nothing to do with the PP, but if I start a thread, *I shouldn't get smacked around too much.*
> 
> Rich


!rolling


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> !rolling


If it helps one person, it will be worth the aggravation. :beatdeadhorse: And beat that dead horse I shall.


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