# Dual HD DVR?



## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

Anyone know whether Dish is working on, planning to, or otherwise going to cleverly try and come up with a way to have one DVR driving to HD TVs?

Is there a true next-generation DVR in the works?

We are about ready to replace our 2nd TV with an HDTV, would be awfully nice if we would have some content on it...


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

I think the problem is there is no easy way right now to send HD long distances in your house to TV2; at least that is what I've understood.

Most people only have coax in the walls, and in order to send HD to TV2 via coax it would have to be modulated to ATSC or something similar, then picked up via ATSC tuner on the other end. I think this creates possible issues with copy protection, etc.

I think a "Sling" type solution is in the works, but I'm not sure.

For now, just get a 2nd HD receiver. I have a 722 and 622, both driving single TV's, no biggie, works fantastic.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

Yeah that would work except...

would have to run additional coax AFAIK, also would not be able to share DVR content between the two TVs.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

No more info on this?

OK, so here's the thing. I can watch HD quality TV programs over the internet, using my 11Mbps wireless network card and my 6Mbps or so cable modem.

Most Dish Network HD channels are in the range of 10Mbps, right?

The easier answer is to use wireless networking to get programming from the receiver to TV2 rather than using the coax. Since the Dish 622/722 is basically a Linux box to begin with, just put an 802.11G card in it and allow a set-top box on another TV to receive the HDTV signal over 802.11G instead of cable.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

I'm not sure how much demand there would be for such an expensive solution. At that cost you could get a 2nd receiver. Sure you couldn't share recorded programs, but if the 2nd box was a 622/722 you could record up to 6 programs at once. Activate the EHD and you can carry any programming from one to the other.


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## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

I have 3 HD TVs and 3 HD receivers. I don't really understand the obsession to use a single box for all the TVs. 

Just get a 2nd HD receiver.


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## jadebox (Dec 14, 2004)

Mr.72 said:


> Anyone know whether Dish is working on, planning to, or otherwise going to cleverly try and come up with a way to have one DVR driving to HD TVs?


They bought Slingbox for a reason. 

I suspect they'll eventually move to a system with a single DVR receiver connected to multiple set-top boxes. It would be less expensive, easier to maintain, and allow sharing of the DVRed programming throughout the house.

-- Roger


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## Sharpinv (Mar 14, 2006)

jadebox said:


> They bought Slingbox for a reason.
> 
> I suspect they'll eventually move to a system with a single DVR receiver connected to multiple set-top boxes. It would be less expensive, easier to maintain, and allow sharing of the DVRed programming throughout the house.
> 
> -- Roger


FYI - I am running signal to two HD TV's on my 722 via HDMI for the "local" TV, and a 100 foot component cable for the remote TV. The component signal over 100 feet is just as good or better than my six foot HDMI signal. Monoprices sells the cable for $40.


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

^^^ This is what I plan to do as well to a 2nd HDTV in my offce, but the 722's HD outputs are only for "TV 1"; so both TV's would have to watch same program.

I'm glad to hear component goes far so well; I was going to get a 75-foot component cable from Monoprice and hope for the best!


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

Both tvs watching the same program would be a royal pain and make it not even worth it. The whole point of us having two tvs in the house is so we can watch two different things.

I guess I'll put off buying a second HDTV until Dish gets their act together or I switch service providers.


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't believe any providers have a box that can drive two HDTV's with separate tuners yet. I'm not sure about U-Verse, but I keep hearing people say their DVR's suck bad, so I haven't looked into it.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Mr.72 said:


> I guess I'll put off buying a second HDTV until Dish gets their act together or I switch service providers.


Looks like that 2nd HDTV will not be on your Christmas list for a looooong time. NO other provider offers a single reciever with a 2 HD tuner output so I'm not sure who you will switch to.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

snowcat said:


> I have 3 HD TVs and 3 HD receivers. I don't really understand the obsession to use a single box for all the TVs.


Only one source of recorded programs. If you have two DVRs, Murphy's Law dictates that the show you want to watch in Room A will only be recorded on the receiver in Room B. With one DVR feeding two TVs, that can't happen. You can watch all the content on either one without worrying about duplicating recordings, etc.

Anyone remember the Rabbit? It was used to share the output of the household VCR to multiple TVs back when a VCR was an expensive investment. A transmitter/receiver pair cost about $100 and each additional receiver was around $25. Then VCRs dropped below $100 and it became cheaper just to buy two. What we need now is an HD Rabbit.


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## d.glen (Aug 2, 2006)

I thought I read something about television manufacturers providing wireless HD in new sets, once again there are 2 competing technologies. Maybe there will be some news at this years CES.

Have a look at www.wirelesshd.org


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

HobbyTalk said:


> Looks like that 2nd HDTV will not be on your Christmas list for a looooong time. NO other provider offers a single reciever with a 2 HD tuner output so I'm not sure who you will switch to.


Heck, as far as I know, no other provider has a dual output receiver of any type, much less HD? (correct me if I'm wrong of course).


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Mr.72 said:


> Both tvs watching the same program would be a royal pain and make it not even worth it. The whole point of us having two tvs in the house is so we can watch two different things.
> 
> I guess I'll put off buying a second HDTV until Dish gets their act together or I switch service providers.


Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Have you ever heard of DRM - it has nothing to do with Dish "getting their act together". Just get another receiver - you'll have to do that with any other service provider.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

HobbyTalk said:


> Looks like that 2nd HDTV will not be on your Christmas list for a looooong time. NO other provider offers a single reciever with a 2 HD tuner output so I'm not sure who you will switch to.


Not exactly true. While there may not be a single HD DVR to feed two independent HD sets yet, DirecTV is currently testing its multi-room-viewing, by networking an HD DVR with an HD box, the HD box can provide its own live HD programming at the same time also stream recorded HD shows from the HD DVR in another room with the usual DVR trickplays.

The feature is not officially released yet but anyone who wants to can participate in the test.

I think Mr. 72's point is valid in that not everyone cares about having to remember to record various shows on different DVRs. Just record on one DVR, and able to watch them from any location in true HD. Saves cost too because an HD box costs a lot less to make and to have.

E* should be able to come up with a similar plan, we just don't know if they are working on it or not. But for me an even better arrangement is to have a large external hard drive connected to the router, then multiple HD boxes (vip211s for example) are networked together and can record onto the external drive at the same time and playback any recordings from that drive.

E* has already turned the VIP211s into HD DVRs, the next step shouldn't be too difficult. Those 1TB external hard drives are available (called NAS drives?) that allow networked PCs to share the drives.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> . But for me an even better arrangement is to have a large external hard drive connected to the router, then multiple HD boxes (vip211s for example) are networked together and can record onto the external drive at the same time and playback any recordings from that drive.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> This would be perfect and could careless who comes out with it.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!


Aha, so I should buy another HDTV, even though I can't watch anything but SD on it?



> Have you ever heard of DRM - it has nothing to do with Dish "getting their act together". Just get another receiver - you'll have to do that with any other service provider.


I don't care so much about having two HD outputs, but having one set of content (one DVR) that shares across two different TVs will be fine with me.

set top box on one TV, DVR on the other, both share the same content. Should be real easy to network a STB with the DVR. If Dish opened the source on their DVR software then I bet it'd be less than a week before Linux hackers had this kind of thing working.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

jadebox said:


> They bought Slingbox for a reason.
> 
> I suspect they'll eventually move to a system with a single DVR receiver connected to multiple set-top boxes. It would be less expensive, easier to maintain, and allow sharing of the DVRed programming throughout the house.
> 
> -- Roger


Sounds kind of like a FIOS Media Center to me. Although the FIOS box only allows timers to be set from the main TV, and it only streams SD so far.

Dish will definitely have better plans than FIOS or cable, just a few revisions to make the plans work.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Uverse has whole house DVR now.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

ZBoomer said:


> I think the problem is there is no easy way right now to send HD long distances in your house to TV2; at least that is what I've understood.


I have a HDMI Transceiver set that on one end you input HDMI, it runs to your TV2 location via Cat5e and than converts back into HDMI. I have also seen Gefen market this with fiber. I have run about 150ft using this. I know one person, that has the amplified version and runs it further yet.

There are a couple companies working on wireless HDMI..... then you have HDMI distribution amps that really don't work as well.

All these are fairly easy solutions, but they get pricey.


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## MatthewH12 (Nov 27, 2002)

I hope they come up with a solution too as I just put an HDTV in my bedroom. The "Tech Support" departments answer to how to get HD on both TV's was "Give us $550 for a second HD DVR", I'm like no thanks!

I'm not even so much worried about HD on the second TV at the moment, as much as I wished the dish could output proper 16x9 to the TV 2 out, but then i have it connected via coax at the moment as I'm not sure how much it would cost to run component cables. (Sadly the way they built this house, the walls are "Capped off" in the attic and basement, so you cant just drop cables you have to drill and all that )

--Matt


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

ClaudeR said:


> Dish will definitely have better plans than FIOS or cable, just a few revisions to make the plans work.


And soon


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## 50+ (May 1, 2008)

I have bought my parents a new HDTV. I am not all that familiar with Dish. For the second TV off a 722 can I run The coax for SD on tuner 2 and run component for HD. This woud allow them to watch recorded content off tuner 2. and watch HD content from tuner 1, is this true. I guess what I am asking is will the 722 run content like this.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Not exactly true. While there may not be a single HD DVR to feed two independent HD sets yet, DirecTV is currently testing its multi-room-viewing, by networking an HD DVR with an HD box, the HD box can provide its own live HD programming at the same time also stream recorded HD shows from the HD DVR in another room with the usual DVR trickplays.


Still requires a second HD receiver. It is, however a logical way to get in house distribution of HD content. Sending ecrypted content over a network to another same company (and account) receiver that can decrypt and play the content would not likely cause any DRM issues. Network access to Dish's EHD content would be an additional way to expand this kind of distribution.


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

Jason Nipp said:


> I have a HDMI Transceiver set that on one end you input HDMI, it runs to your TV2 location via Cat5e and than converts back into HDMI. I have also seen Gefen market this with fiber. I have run about 150ft using this.


That sounds awesome, what's it called and where can you pick one up? (online)


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## mhowie (Sep 30, 2006)

Sharpinv said:


> FYI - I am running signal to two HD TV's on my 722 via HDMI for the "local" TV, and a 100 foot component cable for the remote TV. The component signal over 100 feet is just as good or better than my six foot HDMI signal. Monoprices sells the cable for $40.


Mmmm...may have to give this a shot. Thanks for the thought-starter!


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## Sailor Bill (Mar 1, 2007)

Sharpinv,

How do you control the DVR when you are watching the remotely located TV? Also, since my theater projecter is already hooked up via component, coould the remote TV be the one via HDMI? It would be about 25' away.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

You can use the RF remote (remote 2) to control TV1.


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## Scott Spillers (Apr 15, 2006)

Jason Nipp said:


> I have a HDMI Transceiver set that on one end you input HDMI, it runs to your TV2 location via Cat5e and than converts back into HDMI.


I've seen a few Cat-5e HD distribution systems online, but have not tried one myself yet. What specific hardware are you using? Does it require one or two Cat-5e drops?


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## 50+ (May 1, 2008)

My mother called Dish today, to get the new 2.0 remote, to work an olevia TV. She was told that they were not available but in Feb or March there would be a recvr to replace her 722 that will have dual HD tuners, this would solve some other problems for here setup. has anyone else heard this.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

"I think what we have here is a failure to communicate."


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Scott Spillers said:


> I've seen a few Cat-5e HD distribution systems online, but have not tried one myself yet. What specific hardware are you using? Does it require one or two Cat-5e drops?


Everything I've seen requires either 1 drop for an HDMI run or 2 drops for component and audio.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

50+ said:


> My mother called Dish today, to get the new 2.0 remote, to work an olevia TV. She was told that they were not available but in Feb or March there would be a recvr to replace her 722 that will have dual HD tuners, this would solve some other problems for here setup. has anyone else heard this.


The CSR was wrong/confused. The new v21 remote IS available, but is NOT available as a "replacement" for receivers that didn't come with it. It needs to be *purchased* as an "additional" remote. CSRs are trained to stick to their scripts, and most will assume someone calling for a remote needs a "replacement", and the script doesn't allow that (and the customer won't know any better). You want an ADDITIONAL remote.

And the receiver the CSR was referring to is the 722k, which has no OTA tuner, but accepts the optional $30 tuner module that features 2 OTA tuners. It does NOT have dual HD outputs.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

There is a big difference, between Dual HD Tuners and Dual HD outputs.
ViP 612/622/722 have Dual Tuners, this can very useful in Single mode, for PiP and DLB viewing. You may want to read about single mode vs Dual mode on the ViP series.


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## 50+ (May 1, 2008)

Thanks IIP. I am not very informed about Dish. They don't need OTA at all, even when they had a 100' tower for OTA, there stations were bad. I don't think they would get anything after the digital conversion. The CSR's do have to follow a script and I'll have her call and ask for an additional remote instead of a replacement and see what she can find out. In another thread they call this a 2.0 remote is it really a v21? 

Grumpybear thanks for the reply also. 
I do undrerstand about the dual tuner aspect. In post #25 I asked if the HDMI and the component would work 2 TVs at the same time with the coax hooked up to tuner 2,not in HD, so they can watch different programs when need be. I am quite sure the D*TV hrxx boxes will work like this just don't know enough about Dish. The tv's they have are no more than 30' apart so it seems like this would work. 

THANKS AGAIN


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## grog (Jul 3, 2007)

I have both my VIP622's racked in the basement. So I am doing a dual HD DVR setup.

I like the wireless method in the post above but for about $50.00 I can run 40 feed of HDMI cable just fine.

I run HDMI from one of my VIP622's from the basement upstairs using this 40 foot HDMI cable... great stuff..

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=4034&seq=1&format=2
$50.15

I am also using the 50 foot version to feed HDMI from my computer to my 47" LCD.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2804&seq=1&format=2
$61.64

Both cables are 22AWG. This is some thick cable!

For really long feeds 
131FT HDMI to HDMI 24AWG CL2 Rated cable w/ built-in Equalizer (Gold Plated Connectors) 
$148.93

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024005&p_id=3026&seq=1&format=2


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## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

50+, 21.0 is what you want to ask for.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

GravelChan said:


> 50+, 21.0 is what you want to ask for.


The 24AWG HDMI cables at 50' worked just fine for me, anything thicker did not fit under the baseboard


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## 50+ (May 1, 2008)

Thanks guys


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## tomallison24 (Dec 10, 2008)

snowcat said:


> I have 3 HD TVs and 3 HD receivers. I don't really understand the obsession to use a single box for all the TVs.
> 
> Just get a 2nd HD receiver.


Do you have to pay for the extra receiver?


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## snowcat (May 29, 2007)

tomallison24 said:


> Do you have to pay for the extra receiver?


No. It was included for $0.

Now if I had tried to get a 2nd 622, I would have had to pay more.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Scott Spillers said:


> I've seen a few Cat-5e HD distribution systems online, but have not tried one myself yet. What specific hardware are you using? Does it require one or two Cat-5e drops?


I just installed the ones from Wiredzone.com: http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=32014433

They require two Cat5/6 runs and so far it works very well on 1080i or 720p from my 622 to a Pioneer Plasma about 75 feet. I have not tested it on longer distances but I'm going to buy another set so I can switch between either 622 at my 3rd display. I purchased a powered HDMI splitter from Monoprice to help achieve this but haven't tried it yet.


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## dclaypool (Jul 11, 2005)

At CES, ZeeVee showed a ZVpro device: http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/09/hands-on-with-zeevees-zvpro-and-zvboxplus/

Their existing ZVbox device streams content from a PC modulated using QAM to HDTVs over coax. No claim for anything beyond that, but I do note that the new ZVpro has component in and TOSlink in, so it makes me wonder. No word on price, though...


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Mr.72 said:


> Yeah that would work except...
> 
> would have to run additional coax AFAIK, also would not be able to share DVR content between the two TVs.


Not true. All HDDVRs for Dish can use a DPP separator so you only need 1 cable for sat-in.

Also, with the EHD option you can swap recordings within up to 3 HDDVR units. Gotta physically carry the EHD, but...


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

ZBoomer said:


> I think the problem is there is no easy way right now to send HD long distances in your house to TV2; at least that is what I've understood...


There is a way to accomplish this today: an ATSC RF modulator! The very first E* HD receiver had only this kind of output for HD.


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