# HELP! MRV not working properly



## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

I had the whole home installed yesterday (finally after 2 no shows by the installer). This was the installer's first attempt-we referenced this board several times. 
Im having a problem where not all boxes can see each other (and not all boxes can use OnDemand and TVapps).

My HR20s worked fine on my ethernet during the beta with a few hiccups every now and then.

My installer replaced my LNB with one that has a green label on it and replaced my my multiswitch with a SWM (green label on it). Also swapped R15-100 with R22-100 and H20-100 with H24-100.

Equipment:
1 HR20-100
1 HR20-100
1 H24-100
1 R22-100

HR20-100 (living room)-sees R22-100, OnDemand (shows up but when a program is selected to downloading, it says downloading has been paused and never downloads [so Im assuming it isnt working], and my network; gets error about not receiving guide information* which has caused a reset a couple times.

HR20-100 (bedroom)-sees R22-100, and my network [OnDemand (but no "browse by channels" and certain things "greyed" out or anything to download)]; also gets error about not receiving guide information*; and cant seem to keep an IP address in the 192 range

H24-100-sees HR20-100 (living room), R22-100 and network

R22-100-sees both HR20-100s,OnDemand -only one that downloads, and network.

No TVapps on any boxes.

On the DECAs connected to HR20s I see 2 green lights illuminated.

I am attaching a drawing of my setup for review in case my installer hooked something incorrectly and maybe I can fix it before I make a call to DTV to come look at it.

* not sure if this is CE related (both HR20s) but coincidentally started after MRV install.

edited: OnDemand only works on R22-does not work on any other box.
Thanks.
View attachment 22220


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Okay, a couple of things looking at your diagram.

For the HR20's you show the splitter before the DECA. In that case you need a Band Stop Filter (BSF) after the splitter and before the input to SAT1. Looking at your diagram, you have the RG-6 output of the DECA going to the SAT2 input on the HR20 for power, correct?

You also do not show a DECA for the R22. Do you have one there?

Lastly, do you have a PI for the DECA that is used to bridge to your home network?

- Merg


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

The R22-100 needs a DECA


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Okay, a couple of things looking at your diagram.
> 
> For the HR20's you show the splitter before the DECA. In that case you need a Band Stop Filter (BSF) after the splitter and before the input to SAT1. Looking at your diagram, you have the RG-6 output of the DECA going to the SAT2 input on the HR20 for power, correct?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply...and "YES" to all your questions. There is so many things involved in this setup I forgot a couple things-obviously important things...( I will make sure I update my image to show these items)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

All DECAs should have three green LEDs.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> All DECAs should have three green LEDs.


Whoops. Missed that.

*@VOS:*
Would he be better off switching the DECA and the splitters around for the HR20's so as not to use the BSF's? Is one of the two workarounds for the HR20's preferred over the other?

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Whoops. Missed that.
> 
> *@VOS:*
> Would he be better off switching the DECA and the splitters around for the HR20's so as not to use the BSF's? Is one of the two workarounds for the HR20's preferred over the other?
> ...


The DECA I don't think was ever the problem with the HR20-100, or its location. The plan A was changed to B because of SAT signal issues.
I still don't understand why plan A was changed to B, since they both should work the same, but they did.

Somewhere somebody changed the splitter in plan B and reported it made a difference, but again this too doesn't make any sense, other than in doing so they may have made a better coax connection by doing it, which if they'd found before, they wouldn't have needed to make the change.
Cabling/connectors can sometimes act squirrelly.


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

grafixfreak said:


> *My installer replaced my LNB with one that has a green label on it and replaced my my multiswitch with a SWM (green label on it). *
> .
> .
> .
> ...


I find your above statement above a little "fishy". You say the installer replaced your LNB with a green label, and then also installed a SWiM8? Sounds like the LNB was already a SWM lnb. If so there isnt a need for the separate SWiM

I'm not the expert here, but could explain all your troubles you mentioned(that I highlighted).

Maybe I am misunderstanding.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

djousma said:


> I find your above statement above a little "fishy". You say the installer replaced your LNB with a green label, and then also installed a SWiM8? Sounds like the LNB was already a SWM lnb. If so there isnt a need for the separate SWiM
> 
> I'm not the expert here, but could explain all your troubles you mentioned(that I highlighted).
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding.


I'm thinking that he does have a SWM LNB, and what he is calling a SWM8 is actually a SWS8 splitter. I base this on several items.
1) It seems to be the standard way of installation.
2) He shows the power inserter providing power to the LNB, not the SW?8.
3) The picture actually looks like an SWS8 splitter.

To the OP, does the SW?8 that you have look like your picture? Is it closer to 4"x1.5" (SWS8 splitter) or closer to 6"x6" (SWM8)?

Also, do you know if you went from a "5" LNB to a "3" LNB (or the other way around)? You might want to re-run satellite setup and make sure it has picked up the change.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The DECA I don't think was ever the problem with the HR20-100, or its location. The plan A was changed to B because of SAT signal issues.
> I still don't understand why plan A was changed to B, since they both should work the same, but they did.
> 
> Somewhere somebody changed the splitter in plan B and reported it made a difference, but again this too doesn't make any sense, other than in doing so they may have made a better coax connection by doing it, which if they'd found before, they wouldn't have needed to make the change.
> Cabling/connectors can sometimes act squirrelly.


Perhaps it's possible, with the -100s unique tunning, that it's not so much the deca band causing issues, but the deca's themselves filtering out a chunk that the -100s need, but others can live without.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

djousma said:


> I find your above statement above a little "fishy". You say the installer replaced your LNB with a green label, and then also installed a SWiM8? Sounds like the LNB was already a SWM lnb. If so there isnt a need for the separate SWiM
> 
> I'm not the expert here, but could explain all your troubles you mentioned(that I highlighted).
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding.


I don't think you can expect the same precision in terminology that, say, VOS, would use from folks who haven't been following this technology closely. They tend to think the splitter is the SWM. This was a problem in another thread yesterday when the OP thought she was going to swap in a SWiM-16 when a SWM LNB had been installed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Perhaps it's possible, with the -100s unique tunning, that it's not so much the deca band causing issues, but the deca's themselves filtering out a chunk that the -100s need, but others can live without.


Without some test equipment, it's hard to know what is going on.
I can't see how the -100 is using "some chunk" of the band the others aren't or don't need.
We've got:
SWiM comm 2.3 MHz
DECA ~500-600 MHz
SWiM starting and 978 MHz

"Anyway", the -100 seems to be a weird duck and not all the -700s have liked the SWiM-16, so :shrug:


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> I don't think you can expect the same precision in terminology that, say, VOS, would use from folks who haven't been following this technology closely. They tend to think the splitter is the SWM. This was a problem in another thread yesterday when the OP thought she was going to swap in a SWiM-16 when a SWM LNB had been installed.


Yea, after I posted, I looked at the diagram again, and came to the same conclusion that SWM meant the splitter, based on the picture.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. I have attached some pictures that I quickly took this morning before leaving for work. The quality of some are not so good. I am attaching a picture of the LNB the installer swapped out on my dish; the splitter-like (I know it isnt a splitter but dont know what it is called) piece where the cables are attached coming into the house and the one cable that is attached to power supply "Power to SWM"; and some images of the SWM (Im assuming that is what it is) with all the cable going to my boxes and one cable going to the power unit attached "Signal to IRD." I hope this helps out my earlier explanation and diagram. If someone would like to see more pictures to better understand how I am connected, just let me know what you need to see and I can take some later on this evening.

I appreciate all the help.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I see:


 a SWMLNB
the ground block
the splitter
A better shot of the splitter might help. I also see connectors with blue bands which should be connectors with black bands [not that this is the issue, just not the correct connector].


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

grafixfreak said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I have attached some pictures that I quickly took this morning before leaving for work. The quality of some are not so good. I am attaching a picture of the LNB the installer swapped out on my dish; the splitter-like (I know it isnt a splitter but dont know what it is called) piece where the cables are attached coming into the house and the one cable that is attached to power supply "Power to SWM"; and some images of the SWM (Im assuming that is what it is) with all the cable going to my boxes and one cable going to the power unit attached "Signal to IRD." I hope this helps out my earlier explanation and diagram. If someone would like to see more pictures to better understand how I am connected, just let me know what you need to see and I can take some later on this evening.


Picture 1 is a MRV-ready SWM LNB for 99/101/103 satellites. Pictures 2 and 3 are just a ground block with 1 output used. Picture 4 shows a rather sloppy installation of a SWM splitter and Power Inserter.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I see:
> 
> A better shot of the splitter might help. I also see connectors with blue bands which should be connectors with black bands [not that this is the issue, just not the correct connector].


Ill try to get a better picture later on this evening. Thanks for taking a look.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> Picture 1 is a MRV-ready SWM LNB for 99/101/103 satellites. Pictures 2 and 3 are just a ground block with 1 output used. Picture 4 shows a rather sloppy installation of a SWM splitter and Power Inserter.


So in your opinion, would this sloppy installation warrant a call to DTV to come out and see why this is not working properly and clean up the initial install. Or is it something I could neaten up and fix to get this working?
Also, is this the proper equipment to have this working properly?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

grafixfreak said:


> So in your opinion, would this sloppy installation warrant a call to DTV to come out and see why this is not working properly and clean up the initial install. Or is it something I could neaten up and fix to get this working?


My opinion would be "if I paid for".... I'd expect them to do it correctly.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Rerun antenna setup on your HR20-100s .. They should pass both verification and validation stages.

Looks like you went from a WB68 setup viewing 99°, 101°, 103°, 110° and 119° .. The new LNB only sees 99°, 101°, and 103°. Your HR20s are likely trying to pull guide data from 119° which isn't possible. Once your redo the setup, it should recognize that it's an SL3S and the guide data issues will go away.

This may even fix your networking issues.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

I hear you....but the installer really didnt know what he was doing as this was the first time he actually did this. It took him over 4 hours and I think I knew more about it, from reading posts here.

I guess I should call DTV to come and fix it. I do have the protection plan.
I was trying to avoid calling them, because it took me 3 times(2 no shows/no calls) to get someone out to install.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah, the work is a bit sloppy. Should have been tidied up.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

grafixfreak said:


> So in your opinion, would this sloppy installation warrant a call to DTV to come out and see why this is not working properly and clean up the initial install. Or is it something I could neaten up and fix to get this working?


Whether it's sloppy or not, if everything is not working properly, a call to DTV is warranted to get it fixed. If customers are going around cleaning up the mess installers leave, DTV is not going to be aware of the serious mistakes being made.

By the way, how far inside your house is that Ground Block, and where does that green ground wire go?


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks Doug, Ill give that a try later this evening.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> Whether it's sloppy or not, if everything is not working properly, a call to DTV is warranted to get it fixed. If customers are going around cleaning up the mess installers leave, DTV is not going to be aware of the serious mistakes being made.
> 
> By the way, how far inside your house is that Ground Block, and where does that green ground wire go?


I live in a townhouse. The dish is installed on a balcony which runs the length of the garage plus maybe another 8 feet. And at this moment, I am not sure where the ground wire goes to...but I think there is something nearby attached to a copper water pipe....I could be wrong.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> By the way, how far inside your house is that Ground Block, and where does that green ground wire go?


This is a good point .. The ground block should be outside the house, not inside.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

grafixfreak said:


> I live in a townhouse. The dish is installed on a balcony which runs the length of the garage plus maybe another 8 feet. And at this moment, I am not sure where the ground wire goes to...but I think there is something nearby attached to a copper water pipe....I could be wrong.


The reason I asked is I'm not sure that complies with NEC.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> The reason I asked is I'm not sure that complies with NEC.


 at least he tried.. and here a copper pipe would be as good as any ground you could find..

I think if they had to ground 100% to letter of law, no one would ever get installed..


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## 2dogz (Jun 14, 2008)

dwcolvin said:


> The reason I asked is I'm not sure that complies with NEC.


The ground block can be inside the dwelling. It will pass building inspection if it is installed within a couple of feet of cable entrance. (I know, kinda loose spec. Someone being practical at NEC.)

Also, ground block weathers much nicer indoors.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

2dogz said:


> The ground block can be inside the dwelling. It will pass building inspection if it is installed within a couple of feet of cable entrance. (I know, kinda loose spec. Someone being practical at NEC.)
> 
> Also, ground block weathers much nicer indoors.


Which is why I asked how far inside it was. Also, there are specific limitations to water pipe attachment these days... and the electrical service panel is right there.

I don't think cable tieing coax to Romex is a great idea, either.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

The mess you see with the switch just there and such is from the recent installer. My initial install was much neater with the other switch attached to plywood near the electrical box.

So I guess I should call DTV so they can someone out to "finish" the job. Hopefully its not the same guy--he was a bit messy. He pulled out furniture to access boxes and didnt ask for help-at one point I heard something fall-it was my access point on top of my audio pier that he pulled out from the wall. Then he left and didnt even move the furniture back-my wife and I did it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

grafixfreak said:


> The mess you see with the switch..


The mess with the SPLITTER.

As for the furniture, not sure how that goes, since you should have moved all of it out for him to have access as needed.
After all they're not furniture movers by trade or training.

I think this is all installer's nightmare.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

Oh I hear you...I didnt intend to have him move any furnniture. I would have moved it out earlier, but having 2 no shows previously for this install, i wasnt sure they were going to show up.


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## grafixfreak (Sep 14, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Rerun antenna setup on your HR20-100s .. They should pass both verification and validation stages.
> 
> Looks like you went from a WB68 setup viewing 99°, 101°, 103°, 110° and 119° .. The new LNB only sees 99°, 101°, and 103°. Your HR20s are likely trying to pull guide data from 119° which isn't possible. Once your redo the setup, it should recognize that it's an SL3S and the guide data issues will go away.
> 
> This may even fix your networking issues.


Hi Doug, I ran the test you suggested and it wasnt pretty. they did recognize the SL3S (it was listed in the pulldowns that i couldnt pull down and in a box to the right of the info) Attached are images of the results I received from 2 HR20-100 boxes (living room and bedroom). I received the error code 41 on both boxes as seen in the 1st image and the second image was received on the box in the bedroom.


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