# Picture in Picture



## GatorDave (Aug 28, 2006)

I just had the 722 installed this past weekend and love it so far.

Just a quick question: is there a way in PiP mode to have the 2 same size pictures be full screen? As it stands, when you put PiP into side-by-side pictures, they don't fill up the screen and actually only use about 2/3 of my 50" screen. I'm just wondering if there is a way to expand those to where it's 2 same size, side-by-side pictures that use the entire screen, or at least fill up more screen than what it does. Thanks.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

I don't think so. It's trying to fit the picture in horizontally, so vertically it's not going to fill it up.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Try it with both channels being SD and the stretch off and see what happens.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

If both PIP sources are HD, it will fill the screen horizontally but it is impossible to fill it vertically because the window sizes are smaller.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Try it with both channels being SD and the stretch off and see what happens.


I was watching SD golf and football this weekend and it still doesn't fill the screen. That being said, it still provides two very watchable pictures on my 56" set.

I just noticed online that the the 70" version of the JVC set is now available for $100 more than I paid for the 56" about 10 months ago. I'd like to see my split-screen on that one!


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## GatorDave (Aug 28, 2006)

That's disappointing. It just kind of bugs me to have a nice big screen tv and have to go with that much blank space, especially when I'm watching football. When I use the built-in PiP on my tv and a cable source, the PiP are 2 full screen side-by-side images.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dclaryjr said:


> I was watching SD golf and football this weekend and it still doesn't fill the screen. That being said, it still provides two very watchable pictures on my 56" set.


The question is was the SD being broadcast over HD? OTA for example. If so then you are really watching SD upconverted to HD at the source so it is sent with the bars on the side and that is why you see the bars on the side when doing PIP side by side. Other than that two SIDE by SIDE SD channels should not be showing bars.

What was the channels you saw this at?

As for two full pictures.. 4x3 + 4X3 != 16x9 and that is why you cant get two full side by sides.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> The question is was the SD being broadcast over HD? OTA for example. If so then you are really watching SD upconverted to HD at the source so it is sent with the bars on the side and that is why you see the bars on the side when doing PIP side by side. Other than that two SIDE by SIDE SD channels should not be showing bars.
> 
> What was the channels you saw this at?
> 
> As for two full pictures.. 4x3 + 4X3 != 16x9 and that is why you cant get two full side by sides.


Huh? I answered the question that was asked, namely, what happens when you watch two SD pictures side-by-side. And I didn't say anything about bars on the side. The pictures do not fill the screen because as you noted 2x(4x3) does not equal 16x9.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

GatorDave said:


> That's disappointing. It just kind of bugs me to have a nice big screen tv and have to go with that much blank space, especially when I'm watching football. When I use the built-in PiP on my tv and a cable source, the PiP are 2 full screen side-by-side images.


If your cable does that... then you must be watching horribly distorted images, as that would be the only way to fill the screen with side-by-side PIP.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dclaryjr said:


> Huh? I answered the question that was asked, namely, what happens when you watch two SD pictures side-by-side. And I didn't say anything about bars on the side. The pictures do not fill the screen because as you noted 2x(4x3) does not equal 16x9.


sorry dclaryjr..

I was not saying your answer was wrong.. I was following up with more clarification to drive the point home to the poster and why he would see area not filled (left/right of the picture) when he believed he was viewing two SD content shows (4x3). If one was SD on a HD channel (upcast from source) you would see black border on the left and right of the picture.

Nature of the beast and it appears we are in agreement... Sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing with you.


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## zlensman (Jan 15, 2006)

Uh oh, it's a math problem! Remember this when the kids say, "Why do I have to study geometry? I'll never use this in real life." :lol:

Let's put two 4x3 images side-by-side and see what we get:


```
4    4
    ---- ----
   |    |    |  3
    ---- ----
```
Clearly it's now a rectangle 8 units by 3, for a width:height ratio of 8 / 3 = 2.667

Well, there's no way that will fit perfectly inside a 16x9 rectangle, ratio = 1.778. Only way to make it fit is to munge the aspect ratio, or zoom & crop. And two 16x9 images come to a ratio of 3.556. Wow!

We have all the information needed to calculate the amount of unused space in displaying two 4x3 images inside of a 16x9 rectangle. This exercise is left to the reader....


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> sorry dclaryjr..
> 
> ...snip...
> Nature of the beast and it appears we are in agreement... Sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing with you.


Gotcha. My first instinct was that you quoted the wrong post for your reply!!
Thanks!!!

BTW, the 622's PIP is much more user friendly than the one built into my JVC set. I love it. I'm just in the camp that wishes the single/dual mode button was on the remote.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

zlensman said:


> Uh oh, it's a math problem! Remember this when the kids say, "Why do I have to study geometry? I'll never use this in real life."


Great stuff!!!


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## GatorDave (Aug 28, 2006)

dclaryjr said:


> Great stuff!!!


I understand the geometry and mathematics of it. But still, you would think there would be a way to let you expand the pictures a little bit. Maybe not to full screen size, but to where you can fill up some more blank space. I understand that full screen pics would be terribly distorted. But I would be willing to give up a little bit of distortion for a little bit bigger screen size. Similar to how you can expand a 'normal' SD picture to 'stretched'.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

4:3 SBS PIP


















16:9 SBS PIP


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## GatorDave (Aug 28, 2006)

So it looks like changing it to 4:3 helps a little bit. That's all I was looking for. Sadly I can't play with it right now because my Sammy DLP just crapped out on me.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually I think the pictures are there to show the difference between 4x3 content Sided by Side and 16x9. If you have a 16x9 TV then you should have your 622 set to16x9. Setting your 622 to 4x3 will not make your 16x9 content become 4x3 content with the 4x3 fully filled.


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

I wasn't happy with the PiP via the dish receiver because of the same thing you are describing. Instead of doing PiP through the receiver, I do it through the TV. I plugged in tuner #1 to the TV via HDMI and tuner #2 via RCA cables. Then I used the television's PiP function. The screen is not COMPLETELY filled in, but there is more image and less blank space compared to receiver PiP. Your TV might be able to do the same.


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## mspace (Mar 19, 2007)

tedb3rd said:


> I wasn't happy with the PiP via the dish receiver because of the same thing you are describing. Instead of doing PiP through the receiver, I do it through the TV. I plugged in tuner #1 to the TV via HDMI and tuner #2 via RCA cables. Then I used the television's PiP function. The screen is not COMPLETELY filled in, but there is more image and less blank space compared to receiver PiP. Your TV might be able to do the same.


So you went to a non HD image just to get pip a little bigger?


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

is there away to rid the PIP quickly or is it just via successive presses of the PIP button?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Not that I am aware of... One thing you can do is PIP side by side quickly by pressing the PIP position button to toggle side by side. Personally once this was added I rarely do a PIP.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

If you're using side-by-side, then pressing PIP MOVE once will bring up the two channels (tuner 1 and tuner 2), pressing it again goes back to normal. I think this is the same thing Ron said, just worded differently.


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

thanks guys- is PIP the best way to swap tuners ? i haven't seen another way and was curious...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The PIP function doesn't swap between tuners... it just shows you two tuners on the screen.

You have to press the SWAP button to actually change between tuners... and you can do that without pressing PIP at all.


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## Cold Irons (Dec 7, 2005)

GatorDave said:


> I understand the geometry and mathematics of it. But still, you would think there would be a way to let you expand the pictures a little bit. Maybe not to full screen size, but to where you can fill up some more blank space. I understand that full screen pics would be terribly distorted. But I would be willing to give up a little bit of distortion for a little bit bigger screen size. Similar to how you can expand a 'normal' SD picture to 'stretched'.


This is something that I will just never, never understand.

I simply did not spend thousands of dollars on a big-screen TV to watch a distorted picture.....and I never use strech on anything - why, why would anyone purposely distort their picture?


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

HDMe said:


> The PIP function doesn't swap between tuners... it just shows you two tuners on the screen.
> 
> You have to press the SWAP button to actually change between tuners... and you can do that without pressing PIP at all.


thanks...


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## blizardj (Oct 10, 2007)

Cold Irons said---- why, why would anyone purposely distort their picture?

Well...

For me, I just got a brand new Panasonic Plasma. Panasonic says to fill the entire screen for the first 100 hours to break it in.

So, in order to do that, I have to zoom, stretch, fill, or other wise distort the picture.

 

In 50 more hours, I will go along with Cold Irons... 

Although true, I hope you see I'm just funnin you.

John


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## Cold Irons (Dec 7, 2005)

No problem - just a question that keeps coming up & I can't understand the use of strech... Of course, my Sister & BIL are one of the worst offenders - they always use strech - can't stand to watch at their house.

And yes - follow whatever instructions came w/your plasma - I've got a 50" Plasma & at least try to avoid the burn-in. One recomendation - calibrate your Plasma - chances are the brightness is set much too high for a normal living room environment. This is the #1 thing you can do to protect your screen.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

eddieras said:


> thanks guys- is PIP the best way to swap tuners ? i haven't seen another way and was curious...


To swap between Two of the three tuners. Nice enhancement would be to toggle between all three using PIP swap.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> To swap between Two of the three tuners. Nice enhancement would be to toggle between all three using PIP swap.


You are right about that!

The path to the OTA tuner is murky at best. I am alway pleased and surprised when I find it


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## blizardj (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks for the tip, Cold Irons.

Panasonic also said to lower the brightness to 0. I noticed right off how much that dimmed the picture from the factory settings of 30.

I didn't look to see what the range was, but I think it was above the 30 they had it set to.

Once the break-in is done, I'll be setting it to something between 0 and 30. Although the 30 setting looked pretty good.

As you can see from my post count, I'm pretty new here. I have enjoyed all the information you guys give out.

Thanks... Everyone...

John


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well.. :welcome_s blizardj... Hope you stick around. Great group of folks here.


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