# night owl this 1:30am update sucks



## brownram (Jan 18, 2007)

if you guys at dish read this I am up with the tv on at 1:30am and if I am not right there to stop it I have to deal with the hopper shuting down for the update wouldn't 3:30am be a better time


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

That was one thing I really liked about my 622/722 DVR's - you could set the time that they checked for updates. I had mine set for 5:30 so the check would happen well after I was on my way to work.


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

You mean you can't specify the update time for the Hopper? Another reason not to get one. I have two 622s serving 4 TVs. One 622 is in the bedroom. With the fan noise during an update it would wake even sound sleepers so I set it to update at noon when no one is in the room and usually no one is watching the TV it serves in my office either. The other 622 is away from sleeping areas and those two TVs are often on during the day so I let it update during the night. 

I'm dumbfounded that DISH would take away the ability to set update time. How much money did that save themselves at the expense of their customers convenience? I can't believe it was significant.


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

Correct you can't specify the time. Having had both I will still take the Hopper over my 622, some of the reasons that come to mind

3 tuners
Larger internal hard drive
Ability to have 2 EHD's connected.
QUIET - I have yet to hear the fans
Can backup timers and settings to the remote.
There are even some niceties,

When viewing the recordings it will show you what % has been watched.
Links to my home computer's Windows Media Server so I can play videos and view pictures from my computer.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think they may have taken away the time because people were trying to avoid the nightly update altogether... and then would have problems caused by not letting those updates happen... and then they had to wade through all that on a CSR call. By not letting you change the time, it forces you to adjust to it.

It will not update if you have a timer scheduled... so the only time the update could happen without your permission is IF you weren't watching TV at the time to say "no" and put it off until later.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

Dish is working on enabling the ability to change the update time but it's not a vey high priority at this time.


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## BubbaD (Jun 11, 2006)

I have never had a problem with the updates. If I'm watching tv I postpone. I have selected to update many times and it had never taken over 5 minutes and usually less than that.


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## Wolfpanther (Apr 29, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think they may have taken away the time because people were trying to avoid the nightly update altogether... and then would have problems caused by not letting those updates happen... and then they had to wade through all that on a CSR call. By not letting you change the time, it forces you to adjust to it.
> 
> It will not update if you have a timer scheduled... so the only time the update could happen without your permission is IF you weren't watching TV at the time to say "no" and put it off until later.


If does update if you have a timer scheduled. Two weeks in a row, it has cut off the same program and updated.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think they may have taken away the time because people were trying to avoid the nightly update altogether... and then would have problems caused by not letting those updates happen... and then they had to wade through all that on a CSR call. By not letting you change the time, it forces you to adjust to it.


If I were Dish software expert, I would solve this problem by giving the option of allowing the update at 1:30, 2:30 or 3:30 AM, a rotating selection which you could not get out of without selecting one of them. I think that would make the night-owls happy.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Wolfpanther said:


> If does update if you have a timer scheduled. Two weeks in a row, it has cut off the same program and updated.


What program? What time?

I haven't ever seen this with Dish DVRs... where it would update at night when a timer was scheduled to fire.


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## Wolfpanther (Apr 29, 2008)

The Exes on TVLand at 1:30 a.m.- 2:00 a.m. It started the program and a few minutes in the program stopped recording and I know it was because it did the update, because when I switched over to the DVR it was on the screen that comes up when it's done updating.

It's also come up and asked to update while I was transferring files between the DVR and the external hard drive and when I've been watching a recorded program.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Well... it would be on that screen after a power failure or a lockup/reboot, or pretty much any scenario that results in the receiver being in standby.

It sounds to me like you had a different problem... perhaps the receiver locked up and rebooted or something... which would be a problem... but I've never heard of the nightly update interrupting a scheduled recording, and certainly not a recording in-progress.

I agree you have a problem there... I just don't think the nightly update is it... I think something else bad happened, so you might want to be on the watch in case it wasn't an isolated incident.

It will, however, interrupt playback of a recording and transfers to EHD. I wish it wouldn't interrupt EHD transfers... but I think all the ViP receivers have that particular flaw too.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

A related comment to the nightly update if I might, my teenage kids complained to me this week that our internet shuts off every morning a1:30. Of course I'm not up then because I get up early for work, but they're teenagers on summer break and play online games half the night and sleep half the day away (what a life). I am wondering if my 2 hoppers doing their update at 1:30 is causing our network to get strangled. We have 512K up/ 3.0 MB down DSL (no cable or Fios options here). Anyone else notice a network clog with the nightly update?


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## Wolfpanther (Apr 29, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> It sounds to me like you had a different problem... perhaps the receiver locked up and rebooted or something... which would be a problem... but I've never heard of the nightly update interrupting a scheduled recording, and certainly not a recording in-progress.
> 
> I agree you have a problem there... I just don't think the nightly update is it... I think something else bad happened, so you might want to be on the watch in case it wasn't an isolated incident.


I'd agree except it was 2 weeks in a row at 1:30 and didn't do the update at 2:30 like it does if you skip the 1:30 update


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## Mike.H_DISHNetwork (Feb 1, 2011)

I understand it can be frustrating when you're up late watching a show and the updates start. A request has been filed on your behalf to have this feature added with extended update times. All requests are considered and reviewed for approval.

Thanks


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

david_jr said:


> A related comment to the nightly update if I might, my teenage kids complained to me this week that our internet shuts off every morning a1:30. Of course I'm not up then because I get up early for work, but they're teenagers on summer break and play online games half the night and sleep half the day away (what a life). I am wondering if my 2 hoppers doing their update at 1:30 is causing our network to get strangled. We have 512K up/ 3.0 MB down DSL (no cable or Fios options here). Anyone else notice a network clog with the nightly update?


I wouldn't think so as updates are pulled from the satalite not via the internet. Unless your hoppers are somehow bridging your internal network to the DSL I wouldn't expect them to impact your internet connection.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think they may have taken away the time because people were trying to avoid the nightly update altogether... and then would have problems caused by not letting those updates happen... and then they had to wade through all that on a CSR call. By not letting you change the time, it forces you to adjust to it.
> 
> It will not update if you have a timer scheduled... so the only time the update could happen without your permission is IF you weren't watching TV at the time to say "no" and put it off until later.


As seen a lot of what in a stream days and nights, I would ask you, Stewart: *what exactly in "the nightly update", are there specific "the nightly updates" ?*
I think you knew the answer: NOTHING !

And a reason for the night REBOOT is cleanup the 'computer' memory eg DVR, because of 'memory leakage', because of bugs what accumulating data corruptions in DVR, mangled current running status flags, etc.

Because it easy to reboot, than troubleshoot, than find the bugs and fix them.

So, the fixed time of the REBOOT (not mythical *"the nightly update") *is just a result of someone sloppy job while porting from 622/722 code-base to 922/813/913 models .... now they don't want to spend time for review the changes because each time the fixing one bug, they MAKE another one or more.
I don't know if it coder's experience and skills or ppl in the FW dept overloaded ... we all knew , working environment in dish depts are horrible


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Wolfpanther said:


> I'd agree except it was 2 weeks in a row at 1:30 and didn't do the update at 2:30 like it does if you skip the 1:30 update


I hear what you are saying... but what I'm thinking is happening... something else is causing your receiver to reboot... and you aren't there to see it happen... and then once that has occurred and the receiver is in standby, the 1:30am update/reboot can happen since the timer was already interrupted.

It is a chicken vs egg scenario... but basically, if anything else crashes and screws up your recording... that leaves the receiver in a state where it can do the 1:30am update that it wanted to do.

So... I expect the receiver is just "taking advantage" of the other failure to do the update. Rather than the update causing the timer to fail. Basically you would have to be sitting there and watching when it happened to verify what I am saying... but I'm inclined to think it is the case.

Basically, you definitely do have a problem... I'm just not sure it is the problem you first thought it was. I think you have a different problem that opens the door for the update to happen on schedule.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> As seen a lot of what in a stream days and nights, I would ask you, Stewart: *what exactly in "the nightly update", are there specific "the nightly updates" ?*
> I think you knew the answer: NOTHING !
> 
> And a reason for the night REBOOT is cleanup the 'computer' memory eg DVR, because of 'memory leakage', because of bugs what accumulating data corruptions in DVR, mangled current running status flags, etc.
> ...


None of what you posted there is relevant, though. Is the nightly update "necessary"? Yes. Does it have to be? Probably not. Microsoft has a history of poor "garbage collection" and if you leave your computer on for several days you kind of need a reboot to clear the pipes.... I haven't seen anything in recent years to suggest Microsoft has done a better job at that than my earliest experiences with Microsoft way back in the early 1980s.

So... the Dish nightly update... could better programming do something better and not need this? Perhaps... but it is a moot point because for whatever reason you might want to assign, they haven't. Either because they can't, or because they don't prioritize it high enough... the nightly update is a "necessary" evil.

Unless and until that changes... it is a moot point as to why it is necessary... we have to accept that it is, and work with it the best that we can.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

be honest, stop calling it "the nightly update"


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

Stewart Vernon said:


> None of what you posted there is relevant, though. Is the nightly update "necessary"? Yes. Does it have to be? Probably not. Microsoft has a history of poor "garbage collection" and if you leave your computer on for several days you kind of need a reboot to clear the pipes.... I haven't seen anything in recent years to suggest Microsoft has done a better job at that than my earliest experiences with Microsoft way back in the early 1980s.
> 
> So... the Dish nightly update... could better programming do something better and not need this? Perhaps... but it is a moot point because for whatever reason you might want to assign, they haven't. Either because they can't, or because they don't prioritize it high enough... the nightly update is a "necessary" evil.
> 
> Unless and until that changes... it is a moot point as to why it is necessary... we have to accept that it is, and work with it the best that we can.


My understanding is most of the time this is not an "update" in the computer term. No software gets changed. Most days it is simply and update to the guide data. Not to say there isn't a check of the condition of the receiver or something. I have no idea. But even if you set a receiver never to update software it will still do an update of the guide data daily. As the OP and I and others have pointed out 3 AM is not the most convenient time for many customers, which is why, I presume, Dish gave us the ability to set the update time on a generation of receivers. That they dropped this feature on the Hopper seems illogical and I hope they restore it.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

TheGrove said:


> I wouldn't think so as updates are pulled from the satalite not via the internet. Unless your hoppers are somehow bridging your internal network to the DSL I wouldn't expect them to impact your internet connection.


Perhaps the reboot of the Hopper system (2H/3J) is somehow rebooting my home network. Kids say it is only a minute or two that it is down.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Just to explain to new users who never use pre-ViP/XiP receivers/DVR - these models NEVER require reboots, nightly or daily.

Calling its "nightly update" is a lie. It's simple REBOOTS. That's relevant and pertinent definition.

BTW, the guide updates coming 4 times per day if it's 9-days EPG, or each 4 hours if it 44-hours EPG.


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Just to explain to new users who never use pre-ViP/XiP receivers/DVR - these models NEVER require reboots, nightly or daily.
> 
> Calling its "nightly update" is a lie. It's simple REBOOTS. That's relevant and pertinent definition.
> 
> BTW, the guide updates coming 4 times per day if it's 9-days EPG, or each 4 hours if it 44-hours EPG.


But it will update your software if there is a new version pending for your receiver. Also as part of this routine it does a check of the internal HDD and at least pre S400 the EHD as well (haven't watched what happens since I got the S400 update).


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

OK, pending update (how often you getting it ? once in few months ?) would reboot your DVR regardless of the night REBOOTs, right after downloading and re-flashing;
e2fsck and fsck ? Do you know something (bugs again !) so it needs to be done each night ?


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

Sorry no secret knowledge here, so I would agree that I don't see why it needs to be done each night. Once a week or so should be fine IMHO.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Again, we are getting WAY off the path here... it doesn't matter what you call it or whether or not you think it "should be" necessary... the fact remains that it is necessary by the current design.

If you want to have a thread to talk about whether or not it should be called "nightly update" or whether or not it is something that could be eliminated... please feel free to start that thread!

This thread is about how to deal with the fact that it wants to do this every night, and on the Hopper it isn't something that you can alter the schedule. Discussion over whether it is an "update" or not or why is is necessary really isn't helping anyone I don't think.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

at least it give ppl proper understanding what is the DVR doing during night reboots and why, instead of repeating official propaganda

better be honest and name things as it is


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

It is what it is, it does what it does, get over it!

Perhaps Dish WILL add the capability to adjust the nightly update time, perhaps not.

If they perceive the need it will be done.

Probably 99% of users do not need this capability, so it may not be a very high priority.


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## broeddog (Sep 12, 2009)

Isn't the final process of the nightly update supposed to reconfigure your home network, so your Hoppers and Joeys can access the Internet via the bridging function in one of the Hoppers.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

broeddog said:


> Isn't the final process of the nightly update supposed to reconfigure your home network, so your Hoppers and Joeys can access the Internet via the bridging function in one of the Hoppers.


per se it's not necessary, but in case of bugs ...
you see ? whole purpose of the nightly _*reboots*_ (there are no updates) is restart whole system and make fresh start


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## Wolfpanther (Apr 29, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Basically, you definitely do have a problem... I'm just not sure it is the problem you first thought it was. I think you have a different problem that opens the door for the update to happen on schedule.


I made sure I was done watching Netflix this week and watched. DVR is recording the 1:30 a.m. program and the screen pops up to do the nightly update.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

If your network goes down when the Hopper is doing its updates, see if your router has a QoS (Quality of Service) setting. If so, follow the instructions in your manual to set the Hopper to be a low priority and see if that helps.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

there are no night updates, the DVR is just rebooting

btw, all updates coming from satellite(s) !


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

P Smith is correct, unless Dish is pushing out a specific update to your receiver, the only thing that happens overnight is that the unit reboots which naturally results in a download of a fresh set of guide data.

The nightly reboot essentially clears all the garbage out of memory that has accrued during daily operations, a nightly trash dump, like rebooting your PC when it gets quirky after running several weeks without a shutdown or reboot.

You can cause fresh guide data download by doing a manual reboot, they go hand-in-hand.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

the EEPG update is not happen each reboot, DVR's system checking if last download was certain hours ago, then it will do
else it will gather incremental info, as full EEPG is 120+ MB size and taking a lot of time to DL


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Ok... can we please focus on the topic, which is people having trouble with when this nightly "whatever" happens? As I said before, it doesn't matter what you want to call it... beating that into the ground is doing zero to help the people in this thread who are having problems with timers being interrupted. Please start another thread if you wish to continue talking about what this nightly "update" is or is not doing as it isn't relevant to the problems in this thread._


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Wolfpanther said:


> I made sure I was done watching Netflix this week and watched. DVR is recording the 1:30 a.m. program and the screen pops up to do the nightly update.


That is very curious... It isn't supposed to do that... and I have never seen a receiver of mine do that... and I don't recall seeing anyone post of a Hopper doing that. IF a recording is in progress, the receiver "knows" that and is supposed to automatically delay/defer the reboot time until later. For yours not to be doing that is a problem.

Sometime when you aren't watching anything and aren't recording anything... I would recommend putting it into standby and then unplugging it for a minute... basically letting it do a "cold" restart and see if that makes any improvement.


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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

I wish I had known about this before I got my hopper. Just got it a week ago, and I'm in the middle of watching something I DVRd when it pops up and tells me it's going to shut off. I tell it no, rewind and continue watching. A while later (I did not time it), I'm still watching a movie from my DVR and it pops up again and tells me ti's going to shut off. This is ridiculous. I'm really missing my 922 right now. At least I could set a time for it to go through the update.

Does anyone know whether or not Dish is working on getting this fixed. It's annoying as hell, and now I need to check some things that I recorded overnight to make sure that they did not get interrupted.

If DISH is paying attention here - LET ME SET MY OWN TIME FOR UPDATES!

I've been a pretty happy Dish customer until now. Sheesh!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'll agree that it would be nice if Dish let you pick the time... I know I have my 922 set for 7am... but I also think there are a lot of people (my father is one of them) who likes to keep saying "no" to the prompt... and then eventually something isn't working right because it hasn't done an update in days... and then the complaints start piling up. So I think that's part of why they designed the Hopper this way and took away the choice of update time.


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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'll agree that it would be nice if Dish let you pick the time... I know I have my 922 set for 7am... but I also think there are a lot of people (my father is one of them) who likes to keep saying "no" to the prompt... and then eventually something isn't working right because it hasn't done an update in days... and then the complaints start piling up. So I think that's part of why they designed the Hopper this way and took away the choice of update time.


The hopper still lets you say "No" to the update. It just defers to later and asks you again. Even if they don't let you set the time, why would it not see playing a recording off of the DVR as activity and automatically defer until that activity has finished? It seems to do that when the unit is recording, why do I have to put up with the interruption in the middle of playing a recording?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have no problem with it asking me... it waits about an hour after saying no doesn't it? I think that's what I've seen mentioned... That doesn't seem too bad to me... and it takes seconds to clear those popups that display like that.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The problem I've noted is if the popup comes while I'm out of the room. If I happen to pause TV at 1:32am to go get a snack I'll miss the 1:35am warning and return to the machine undergoing the reboot. If I'm far behind in my viewing and I'm not watching a recording I lose content - the buffer is gone.

I'm not sure DISH will ever add a "night owl" setting that would move the nightly reboot to 5:35am or some hour of the customer's choosing. If they decide to do so I would support that decision.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

Yup, that's complaint number 3 with the family. We're up all night. But the way I see it is that DISH/Echostar is in Colorado. Bars close at 2am, 1:30am is last call, so your box updates at 1:30 and is done by the time you get home from the bar. My bar closes when I stop pouring.

Mine fired off at 3:34am this morning, first request. Lately they have been all over the place, but usually 1:23 - 1:37. I have just been letting them do their thing and not have to deal with it later. Also I gage the time it takes to see if possibley I'm getting any new updates. Lately I have been a little more anxious because there are things that need to be fixed, that will calm the family, and I was told were being fixed in the next update. Finger Crossed. I've been doing a lot of that with our HwS.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'll agree that it would be nice if Dish let you pick the time... I know I have my 922 set for 7am... but I also think there are a lot of people (my father is one of them) who likes to keep saying "no" to the prompt... and then eventually something isn't working right because it hasn't done an update in days... and then the complaints start piling up. So I think that's part of why they designed the Hopper this way and took away the choice of update time.


Yeah but all you have to do is set it for a time when nobody's home/awake. This is a long overdue feature that the Hopper has had missing from day one.

Sent from my iPhone 4S using DBSTalk mobile app


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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I have no problem with it asking me... it waits about an hour after saying no doesn't it? I think that's what I've seen mentioned... That doesn't seem too bad to me... and it takes seconds to clear those popups that display like that.


I'm glad that you're okay with it. I'm not. It's an avoidable inconvenience that disrupts my viewing, often at a key moment of the show. Unlike others here, I prefer to schedule technology to work around my schedule rather than the other way around - that IS the purpose of technology, isn't it? To make my life a bit easier? And apparently there's no way to accurately plan around it. I thought I had last night, making sure that my show would end prior to 1:30, but I was wrong. At 1:22am, up pops the shutdown confirmation - right over the last scene of my movie.

The simple feature of scheduling was available on the 922. And I still don't see why the unit would not be programmed to identify PLAYING a recorded program as ACTIVITY that would delay a power cycle. After all, the unit doesn't play itself. I'm not going to play a show, then just walk away from it. If I'm playing it, I'm watching it. It's difficult enough that I have to stay up late to watch a show without being interrupted by others. Do I have to be interrupted by my provider as well?


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

What makes it even worse is that sometimes as late as 2:30-3am I've had one of my Hoppers off all day/night and no recordings scheduled for 12-5am yet literally ten minutes after I turn it on it prompts me to check for updates. Then, of course, if I say no I get to say no every hour after that. That is, if I'm not in the bathroom or kitchen or whatever and it reboots...


Sent from my iPhone 4S using DBSTalk mobile app


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

FarmerBob said:


> Yup, that's complaint number 3 with the family. We're up all night. But the way I see it is that DISH/Echostar is in Colorado. Bars close at 2am, 1:30am is last call, *so your box updates at 1:30* and is done by the time you get home from the bar. My bar closes when I stop pouring.
> 
> Mine fired off at 3:34am this morning, first request. Lately they have been all over the place, but usually 1:23 - 1:37. I have just been letting them do their thing and not have to deal with it later. Also I gage the time it takes to see if possibley I'm getting any new updates. Lately I have been a little more anxious because there are things that need to be fixed, that will calm the family, and I was told were being fixed in the next update. Finger Crossed. I've been doing a lot of that with our HwS.


Sorry to tell you again and again - that time DVR is not UPDATING;
it's just rebooting by prophylactic reason: to cleanup RAM, rebuild system areas/flags, eliminate memory leak created by java code and other corruptions of half-baked-half-tested software in the devices.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Sorry to tell you again and again - that time DVR is not UPDATING;
> it's just rebooting by prophylactic reason: to cleanup RAM, rebuild system areas/flags, eliminate memory leak created by java code and other corruptions of half-baked-half-tested software in the devices.


DISH network uses the time following the reboot for firmware updates (the reboot effectively turns off the receiver to where it can receive the update). The time following the reboot is also used for updating the EPG.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James, you should know - new FW will reboot a DVR that time when it will finish reprogramming flash memory or set all files for that part of updating.
Updating EPG (as NIT and SDT updating/reloading each four hours) is happening at least four times per 24 hrs. Well known fact - see by yourself logs of changes PID 0x300 (9 days EPG)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> James, you should know - new FW will reboot a DVR that time when it will finish reprogramming flash memory or set all files for that part of updating.
> Updating EPG (as NIT and SDT updating/reloading each four hours) is happening at least four times per 24 hrs. Well known fact - see by yourself logs of changes PID 0x300 (9 days EPG)


The EPG stream changes every few hours, but that does not mean the receiver is reading it every few hours. DISH receivers only read the 9 day EPG stream when they are not busy doing other things. (The present/next EPG is read constantly and updates the current and next program as the day progresses but the 9 day EPG is not read constantly on a DISH receiver.)

And firmware only begins to download when the receiver is "OFF" (in standby). If the receiver is ON or recording the receiver does not begin the firmware download process. The nightly reboot puts the receiver in a state where both of these updates can take place - receiver "OFF" and idle.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James,
Nothing changed in methodology of streaming system tables and SW/FW updates; all models of receivers/DVRs working fine up today.
With or without user changeable time for the reboots.

Reason(s) for the 1:30am forced reboot ["update"] of H/H2 is not feasibly procuring.


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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

Wow. talk about getting off into the weeds. who cares whether or not it actually updates or just reboots or spews bits all over the floor. The issue is that, whatever it does, it does it in its own good time, and that it disrupts viewing without much regard to whether or not the unit is in use. Being able to schedule the "update"/"reboot"/spew would be the most desirable option, but I would be happy if it would just recognize that playing a recorded show, like recording a show, is not "inactivity", and it should wait until the playback completes before it throws anything up on the screen or begins its own little tidy-up process.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Reason(s) for the 1:30am forced reboot ["update"] of H/H2 is not feasibly procuring.


True it is not "feasibly procuring" ... since that might as well be written "nescio quomodo opera."

DISH receivers and DVRs are not designed to run 24/7. They need to go into standby. The scheduled reboots are part of the design to make sure that the receivers go into standby. Many things happen when a receiver reboots and goes into standby, including the updates I have spoken about in this thread.

I agree with those who would like to be able to set their own reboot/update time.

It would be nice if the receiver recognized playback as activity. But what is playback? Watching something live that is delayed by a few minutes could be considered playback ... pausing live TV then leaving the room is one of the situations where the update is most annoying. (If I'm watching a DVRd event I can always restart it after the reboot. Delayed live TV means the buffer is lost.)

If one pauses live TV and walks away the buffer fills and when full playback begins. If anyone is watching they are seeing what came over the satellite an hour ago. My wife does this regularly - she pauses TV, leaves the room to check something on her computer and gets distracted - when the buffer fills the program starts playing.

How does the receiver know if someone is watching a paused screen or a delayed live TV playback? It could be my wife who walked away - perhaps even turning off the TV without turning off the receiver. The receiver is happily playing one hour delayed content to no one.

Perhaps some alogarythm that says "if the receiver has not rebooted since 1:00am local AND there has been no remote control activity in one hour: prompt then reboot." Or (preferably) let the user set the standard reboot time.

Personally I believe it would be easier to let the user pick a time than write the alogrythm.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

your idea in last phrase is sharing by many customers as we get the point's discussion a couple times already

as to the algo, I would say it wouldn't hard to implement:
- major trigger - standby mode (100% chances to do the night reboot);
- if there is scheduled recording activity going in background - delay reboot and wait for true standby status,
- if OS missed night window - postpone it for next night,
- after X days of skipping the reboot - give a warning to the customer about soon happening reboot as mandatory action and propose to provide by him a time of a day or next night in true standby mode (in case of non-response [say, on vacation] - do force reboot).


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

A good suggestion, but I suppose no matter how written there would be a scenario that would leave an angry customer. I think they should just let the user set the time, then if they miss something they only have themselves to blame.


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly. The nightly update rebuilds the epg table. I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly. The nightly update rebuilds the epg table. I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.


I would believe that having Joeys in the picture might complicate things but the thing is my Joey almost never reboots at the same time as the Hopper it's linked to. If it's such an issue then the linked Hopper/Joey pair should synchronize their update times if they're ever different. 


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> - major trigger - standby mode (100% chances to do the night reboot);
> - if there is scheduled recording activity going in background - delay reboot and wait for true standby status,


That much is already being done. While recording the receiver will not automatically reboot.
And I have completely missed a reboot on a night when I've told it no every hour or had recordings all night long.



P Smith said:


> - if OS missed night window - postpone it for next night,
> - after X days of skipping the reboot - give a warning to the customer about soon happening reboot as mandatory action and propose to provide by him a time of a day or next night in true standby mode (in case of non-response [say, on vacation] - do force reboot).


Once a receiver is targeted for an update it is best that it takes the update. Not only do some of the "bugs" get fixed but there can be new features that DISH is relying on getting deployed. There is no time (unless the receiver crashes or the user forces a reboot) that the receiver will reboot during a recording.

Are you proposing that the receiver stay on for several days straight with no nightly reboot? Rely on the customer always turning off the receiver to put it in standby every night?



some guy said:


> psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly.


Are you talking about EPG updates? If that statement were true for EPG updates new channels that were added during the day they would have their full EPG within four hours. Customers are not getting full EPG for new channels until the next day (after the nightly reboot and EPG download). The data is there ... as anyone who has forced an EPG download can attest ... but the receiver is not looking for a full update 24/7.

Firmware updates only come when in standby.



some guy said:


> I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.


I hope they do. And threads like this bring it to DISH's attention that there is an issue with the way the nightly reboot is implemented.



3HaloODST said:


> I would believe that having Joeys in the picture might complicate things but the thing is my Joey almost never reboots at the same time as the Hopper it's linked to. If it's such an issue then the linked Hopper/Joey pair should synchronize their update times if they're ever different.


If it were up to me Hopper and Joey would never reboot at the same times. With the network down during the Hopper reboot the Joey's reboot would not finish until the Hopper was back up and running.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

Well -- By "synchronize" I mean have the Joey reboot within 30 minutes or so after the scheduled Hopper reboot.


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

The stb does look for updates every few hours, that is true. The EPG tables are rebuilt during the nightly update but the EPG fills in throughout the day.


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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

well, I've taken care of my biggest problem. Even though others here aren't bothered by the pop-up message while they're watching a program, I am. I find it extremely annoying in the middle of a good show, and it never happens at a good time. So, I figured that I might as well find the work-around (after more than 30 years of dealing with such animals I know that there is always a work-around if you look for it). Prior to watching anything that I have recorded, I set up another program to record that will last longer than the one I'm watching. At least that way the DVR will leave me alone during my movie. After I'm done I delete the other recording.

I understand that a DVR has no way of knowing whether or not someone is watching a live show. It would still be nice, though, if the Hopper would treat playback activity the same as it treats recording activity. I think it's safe to assume that if someone is playing back a recording that they are actually sitting there watching it.
This should be a fairly simple fix. (playback bit = on then reschedule update)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

locutus said:


> I understand that a DVR has no way of knowing whether or not someone is watching a live show. It would still be nice, though, if the Hopper would treat playback activity the same as it treats recording activity. I think it's safe to assume that if someone is playing back a recording that they are actually sitting there watching it.


Normally I would agree with you... but I have lost count the number of times my father has fallen asleep during playback of a movie late at night... and he definitely wasn't watching TV even though he had intended to be watching when he first began the DVR playback.


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## Daggett (Mar 20, 2008)

It bugs me too, someone is always up at that time. I use a workaround of recording an SD channel from 1:30 AM to 4:30 AM every day with a repeating manual timer, at least then it won't ask until 4:30 or 5:30. It ties up a tuner, but I'm not recording much at that time anyway, and I can easily skip it if need be.


Really IMHO it's just a sign of poor design. There really should be no need to do this every night if it were designed correctly.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Daggett said:


> It bugs me too, someone is always up at that time. I use a workaround of recording an SD channel from 1:30 AM to 4:30 AM every day with a repeating manual timer, at least then it won't ask until 4:30 or 5:30. It ties up a tuner, but I'm not recording much at that time anyway, and I can easily skip it if need be.
> 
> Really IMHO it's just a sign of poor design. There really should be no need to do this every night if it were designed correctly.


I do the same thing and this works perfectly. Every night before I shut the TV off I put my Hopper in sleep mode.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

Mine fired off at least four times last night. The first time I allowed it to do its thing, whatever that may be. It started at 1:23am and the last, fourth time, that I saw was at 4:38am. The three other times it did nothing. The standby screen stayed on for as long as I let it. I gave each time about 10 minutes. Could this be possession?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

are you soliciting for a priest ?


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## krestakaye (Feb 21, 2014)

Mike.H_DISHNetwork said:


> I understand it can be frustrating when you're up late watching a show and the updates start. A request has been filed on your behalf to have this feature added with extended update times. All requests are considered and reviewed for approval.
> 
> Thanks


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## krestakaye (Feb 21, 2014)

I'd like this issue to be revisited and requested again. I searched the topic because I have the same problem. If I could choose the update to happen a couple hours later it would be great.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I have a recording set for that timeframe and my receiver stays on.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Now I receive an option to accept or decline the update option. 



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## locutus (Nov 9, 2013)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Normally I would agree with you... but I have lost count the number of times my father has fallen asleep during playback of a movie late at night... and he definitely wasn't watching TV even though he had intended to be watching when he first began the DVR playback.


So what? Would it hurt for his DVR to wait until playback is over before it reset? At most it's a couple of hours.

I find it rather curious that a couple of weeks after I posted my work-around, I received a message one morning that my Hopper had received a "software update". After that point my work-around stopped working. Even when I set a program to record, the Hopper still displays the update message and then switches to the screen-saver. It doesn't actually do an update. It continues to record. Just the display is reset, apparently in response to those of us who want to watch our program uninterrupted late at night. I tried a different ways to create a new work-around, but nothing simple, and quite frankly this issue is no longer worth the time I've spent on it. Apparently whatever you guys need to do at 1:30 is much more important than customer satisfaction. So I've decided to implement a much more severe work around. After five years of being a loyal Dish customer, I'm switching to DirecTV. Screw you guys.


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