# At a FIOS household for 2 days, will report opinions



## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

Well, the only advantage I can tell so far is the speed of channel changing. I haven't played with the MRV yet, but I will eventually.

I am very envious of the 20/5 mbps internet. The one thing I miss about Comcast is the good bandwidth. After switching to D* last April, I had to give up my cable modem, didn't want to pay the non tv service price. 3.0 dsl is brutal.

EDIT

Observation 1. Picture quality is no better.

Observation 2. SD and HD channels being so different is annoying. I love the hide SD channels option.

Observation 3. Although they have MRV, the client STB's cannont FF or RW while playing off the server STB. This is just my limited experience and hearsay from my brother in law (his house)


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

ciurca said:


> After switching to D* last April, I had to give up my cable modem, didn't want to pay the non tv service price. 3.0 dsl is brutal.


Hah. I had to go to 1.5 DSL when I dropped compcast. But it is still very worth it!


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## Wisegoat (Aug 17, 2006)

Why did you guys drop cable internet? 

I pay TimeWarner $56.95 per month and that price is with or without TV service. I get 15 meg down, 2 up. Far better value than $46.95/mo for 3 meg DSL. And I don't have to purchase land line service.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wisegoat said:


> Why did you guys drop cable internet?
> 
> I pay TimeWarner $56.95 per month and that price is with or without TV service. I get 15 meg down, 2 up. Far better value than $46.95/mo for 3 meg DSL. And I don't have to purchase land line service.


Have TWI Road Runner internet only service here as well in South L.A. for approx. ~$43.00/mo. According to Speakeasy getting about 12-13 mb/s on the down and around 722 kb/s on the up right now.

Can't match FiOS internet of course, but is certainly better than the AT&T DSL rates around here which are lower for the same or higher prices.


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

Have dry loop DSL....which means no voice line, for $24.99 month. I was paying $33 for Comcast, which was the 1 year intro price. W/O tv it goes to like $58. Normal price w/ tv is around $45.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Comcast is expensive. I have Internet and Phone with that and it runs $95/month. A lot more than I would like to pay ($42.95 Internet, $44.95 phone, $3 modem rental, + fees). Although, I am very happy with the speed and the phone service.

Hoping that when FIOS is available, I can get faster Internet plus phone service for less.

- Merg


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Fios makes you pay $16/m per HD DVR up to 20 hrs. of HD content., Home Media HD DVR $20/m up to 20 hrs. of HD content.

HD box $10/m each.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Wow, a whole 20 hours?


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

ciurca said:


> I am very envious of the 20/5 mbps internet.


It is very nice. 



> Observation 1. Picture quality is no better.


It should be. We just got FIOS the other week and the HD is a hair better on our 50", the SD is light years better on the 50" and the 30".



> Observation 2. SD and HD channels being so different is annoying. I love the hide SD channels option.


It is a little annoying but the FIOS guy told us a little trick - HD is in the 500s. I just start the search there!

You should also mention the boxes are light years faster and more responsive than the DTV HRxx series. So much so there's no comparison.

I've also noticed almost no glitches in lip sync, picture breakups, or audio things that happened quite regularly on DTV. (Yes I did have good signal strength.)

The online access to your DVR and setting up recordings/deleting them and management blows DirecTV's out of the water. There is no comparison. And no reason DTV can't have this as an option for their HR series that are networked.



> Fios makes you pay $16 per HD DVR up to 20 hrs. of HD content., Home Media HD DVR $20 up to 20 hrs. of HD content.
> 
> HD box $10 each.


Vs $199/99 for an HD or SD DVR + 2 year commitment?

Let's just say this.... I had with DTV 1 HR22, 1-R20 (SD DVR) and FIOS Internet.

With FIOS TV + Internet I get more HD and more channels, 2x HD-DVR's, 1x Digital media adapter for about $6 less than I was paying DirecTV + Verizon. And I've got a price protection for 2 years + a $150 Visa card coming.

The less content thing does suck but it's been manageable for us as we don't use our DVR's for long term storage.

Best thing is for everyone to evaluate the deals available. For those that can get FIOS so far it's tough to beat.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

FIOS = No NFL-ST+SF ...Barely any HD on NBA-LP, MLB-EI, or NHL-CI 

No thanks.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Not a sports fan so I could care less about any of that.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

"Boys, boys...I'm going to turn this car around!"


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wisegoat said:


> Why did you guys drop cable internet?


1. Cost. Without phone or TV, had to pay an extra $10 a month and that just irritated me. My DSL line is costing me exactly half of what Comcast cost me. I don't do games, and I don't download massive quantities of anything, so the DSL is acceptable.

2. Reliability (lack thereof). My neighborhood has had recurring problems over several years. They get it fixed for a little while, then it goes bad again. Half my neighbors tolerate it, half have gone to DSL or Clearwire.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I was at my sister's today who has Fios. I don't remember any artifacting before today when I visited her before but there was a ton on today's football games and on the Michigan basketball game on ESPN.

She doesn't have the DVR option turned on, so no opinion on that. The box is faster but some of the stuff is horrible (search is really bad...doesn't show titles but descriptions).

A lot more channels in HD (most of which she does not have as she has no movie premiums).

I prefer DirecTV because of the sports but I was surprised at the artifacting. ESPN looked worse than the MPEG2 version on DirecTV and the locals were just plain bad.


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## HerntDawg (Oct 6, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Comcast is expensive. I have Internet and Phone with that and it runs $95/month. A lot more than I would like to pay ($42.95 Internet, $44.95 phone, $3 modem rental, + fees). Although, I am very happy with the speed and the phone service.
> 
> Hoping that when FIOS is available, I can get faster Internet plus phone service for less.
> 
> - Merg


comcrap just uped my bill to 64.95 a month for just internet. i think cheaper may be better.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

So if I switch to FIOS how much do they charge for the NFLST? Just wondering.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

20 hours of storage? That's beyond laughable! I dropped a 750 GB drive in my HR20, and it's probably going to be time to upgrade to a 1.5 TB after Christmas (If it lasts that long  )!
Don't they also have that "Only 1 HD channel at a time, no matter how many HD receivers you have" problem? There are times I'm recording 4 HD channels, and watching a 5th here.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> Don't they also have that "Only 1 HD channel at a time, no matter how many HD receivers you have" problem? There are times I'm recording 4 HD channels, and watching a 5th here.


I'm not aware of that being a limitation with FIOS (not available in my area), but AT&T's U-verse (which IS available in my area) currently allows only 1 or 2 HD streams at a time, depending on your location. This is a deal-killer for many people with multiple HD TVs & family members in their household. Future system upgrades are supposed to permit additional HD streams.

FIOS is fiber all the way to the home, while U-verse is fiber to the node. Most pundits consider FIOS to be vastly superior to U-verse, particularly the HD service.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

kevinturcotte said:


> Don't they [Fios] also have that "Only 1 HD channel at a time, no matter how many HD receivers you have" problem? There are times I'm recording 4 HD channels, and watching a 5th here.


No.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

My mom, son and sister all have FiOSTV and love it. Except for the 20 hour HD storage capacity limit and lack of NFLST, they have a pretty compelling offering. MRV works great, though limited to 3 viewing locations (one DVR with 2 tuners feeding 2 set top boxes.)

SD and HD are the network's raw feeds, delivered unmodified, so it's the best PQ you can possibly get. In case it matters, FiOS SD when viewed on a larger screen (42" and above) is much better than DirecTV's, IMO, but they're comparable on older 4:3 displays.

FiOS DVR's offer many user configuration options I'd like to see on my HR2x's. Among them are user-configurable SKIP and REPLAY times, ability to disable picture in guide, ability to specify which time slot or channel to record for a SL, dynamic range control for audio and default GUIDE size (full or half). The feature I like best is remote web access to the DVR. You have the same search capability and ability to schedule SL's or individual recordings remotely as you do locally, and you can you can remotely access the TODO or PLAY lists to delete recordings, scheduled recordings or SL's.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> I was at my sister's today who has Fios. I don't remember any artifacting before today when I visited her before but there was a ton on today's football games and on the Michigan basketball game on ESPN.


I noticed it on the Dallas game but did not notice it on the Green Bay game. That's about the extent of my sports viewing! 

Our locals via FIOS are crystal clear. Are you sure you were watching the HD feeds (500+ channel #'s)?



> Don't they also have that "Only 1 HD channel at a time, no matter how many HD receivers you have" problem? There are times I'm recording 4 HD channels, and watching a 5th here.


Not on FIOS - I've got 4 HD tuners (2 per DVR) and an SD box. From what the install guy said, it works just like cable where you can split it as many times as you like.

I think that's a restriction on Uverse.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

braven said:


> So if I switch to FIOS how much do they charge for the NFLST? Just wondering.


They don't charge anything for it.


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

Side note on the PQ. I can't really compare accurately. His tv's aren't the same quality as my Samsung LCD.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ciurca said:


> Side note on the PQ. I can't really compare accurately. His tv's aren't the same quality as my Samsung LCD.


Verizon has publicly stated they deliver the original network feeds unmodified to the home. Unlike some sat/cableco's, they don't compress the original signal any more than it was already compressed by the network.

So unless you think there may be a PQ issue with the MPEG-2 decoders found in the FiOS/Motorola STB's, _at best_, DirecTV, Comcast and others can only offer _equivalent_ PQ.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well...

I would imagine FiOS is a great service for a lot of people, but like everything else in life there is just no one shoe fits all among all these different service providers. 

For instance FiOS' limited nationwide availability such as here where it is locked out of my area because the iLEC is AT&T. Only a 20 hr. HD DVR capacity is rather comical. And with a household of six DVRs, FiOS' charge of $16-20/per unit combined with a programming package equivalent to my present Total Choice Premiere with DirecTV would likely send the cost through the roof.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Well...
> 
> I would imagine FiOS is a great service for a lot of people, but like everything else in life there is just no one shoe fits all among all these different service providers.
> 
> For instance FiOS' limited nationwide availability such as here where it is locked out of my area because the iLEC is AT&T. Only a 20 hr. HD DVR capacity is rather comical. And with a household of six DVRs, FiOS' charge of $16-20/per unit combined with a programming package equivalent to my present Total Choice Premiere with DirecTV would likely send the cost through the roof.


Yeah, right thru the roof. Imagine how much the monthly bill would be for my ten HRs at FIOS prices? Costs me $45 a month now. And I've got 13TBs of recording capacity.

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ya. For a 10 DVR household, Verizon would be a non-starter (even taking into account there is no up-front equipment $$$ outlay with Verizon).

For a more typical 3 DVR household, however, the Verizon price for a comparable programming package is actually a bit lower. The $15/month each for FiOS DVR's #2 and #3 is offset by the extra $30 we pay DirecTV for "DVR service", "HD service" and 2 add'l STB's. And if you go "multi-room" DVR, that's $20 plus $5-$6 each for diskless STB's, so you can save almost another $20/month by going that route.

And if you are in an area where you can get a "triple-" or "quadruple-play" from Verizon, the monthly savings are even greater. Once again, there is no up front equipment $$$ outlay. They typically require a one-year commitment, but offer a two-year price guarantee in return.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a very happy DirecTV customer. Just trying to keep the discussion objective.  I could never live with a 20-hour DVR, no less a 20-hour "multi-room" DVR, which is all they currently offer!


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

And Fios' "MRV" only works from a DVR to a standard HD or SD box. There is no DVR->DVR MRV so your single 20hr HD-DVR is supplying programming for up to 5 rooms. You would only have 2 "recording tuners" for up to 5 rooms.


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

For me, I've come to realize more and more of my entertainment is internet driven. 

I would deal with the negatives for the bandwidth. I would welcome the speed of the STB's. Maybe down the road, they will enable ESATA, so the limited recording space is a non issue.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Much of these features have been covered in lots of other threads. But just to clarify - no, they don't limit you to 1 or 2 HD feeds per household. FiOS has QAM linear TV feeds, just like cable does.

As for the 20 hour limit, yeah that does suck. But you do have the option of a third party DVR (Tivo or Moxi). Also, they're coming with a new box early in 2010. No definitive word on the specs for the box.

I do wish the search capability was a bit more robust. And I wish they had wishlists, or the ability to save searches. But their network does make alot of things very nice. For example, when you search, the information isn't stored locally on your box. It's stored on their servers. Because of this, the searches that you do on line are the same as what you do on your box. It also makes the boxes reset (from being unplugged) really fast. My boxes come back in less than a minute, and you get a full complement of guide data (again, the guide data is stored on their local servers - it does get downloaded to your STBs, but all you have to do is move forward in time in your guide, and the box downloads the next chunk of guide data).

It also makes their s/w very fast. Scrolling, e.g., is as close to instantaneous as I've ever seen. Also, for the OP, check out their VOD. While their library isn't (yet) as extensive as say Comcast's (it is growing pretty quickly, though) it's not insignificant. And it starts up darn near instantaneously (playback for most stuff starts within a few seconds).

As for the MRV going from DVR to STB only... yes, there is that. But again that's changing too. They're going to start offering DVR-> DVR MRV pretty soon.  They're also in the process of developing a sling-like capability. You're starting to see more stuff getting fed on line (e.g. on their fios tv central site, which is where you can do things like do remote DVR booking) they JUST added a FiOS TV Online feature - where you'll be able to access programming from the web - currently the only thing offered there is Epix, but hey, it's a start.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Ya. For a 10 DVR household, Verizon would be a non-starter (even taking into account there is no up-front equipment $$$ outlay with Verizon).
> 
> For a more typical 3 DVR household, however, the Verizon price for a comparable programming package is actually a bit lower. The $15/month each for FiOS DVR's #2 and #3 is offset by the extra $30 we pay DirecTV for "DVR service", "HD service" and 2 add'l STB's. And if you go "multi-room" DVR, that's $20 plus $5-$6 each for diskless STB's, so you can save almost another $20/month by going that route.
> 
> ...


Plus you get the unparalleled service and accounting departments that Verizon uses to keep their landlines and cell phones running so superbly. I really try not to be sarcastic, I think it's a weakness, but this is too good to pass up. If any of you think D*'s support and accounting departments are poor, wait until you have to deal with Verizon. How they managed to screw up landlines is beyond me. And their service for cell phones is ridiculously poor.

Rich


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

rich584 said:


> Plus you get the unparalleled service and accounting departments that Verizon uses to keep their landlines and cell phones running so superbly. I really try not to be sarcastic, I think it's a weakness, but this is too good to pass up. If any of you think D*'s support and accounting departments are poor, wait until you have to deal with Verizon. How they managed to screw up landlines is beyond me. And their service for cell phones is ridiculously poor.
> 
> Rich


Not to start a flame war or political thread, but Verizon really does suck at customer service because they are union. (at least the US based support). They have no incentive to give a crap.

What I really wish is to be able to know if it is ever coming to my area. No one can ever give me that answer.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Plus you get the unparalleled service and accounting departments that Verizon uses to keep their landlines and cell phones running so superbly. I really try not to be sarcastic, I think it's a weakness, but this is too good to pass up. If any of you think D*'s support and accounting departments are poor, wait until you have to deal with Verizon. How they managed to screw up landlines is beyond me. And their service for cell phones is ridiculously poor.
> 
> Rich


Screw up landlines? How? One big area of weekness for Verizon is their billing (although I've never had any real billing problems). But I'm not sure what you mean by screwing up landline service. And poor cell service? Are you kidding me? Before I switched to Vz Wireless I had AT&T/Cingular. I'm all of 15 miles outside Philly, and 5 miles from my house I'd lose coverage if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. I didn't want to switch to Vz Wireless, mainly because I didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket, but I'm glad I did. Coverage in this area is excellent. I'm sure that's not true everwhere, but around here it most definitely is. Besides, Verizon and Verizon Wireless are actually two different companies. Yes, Verizon owns a good chunk of Verizon Wireless, but they are actually two separate companies, and the latter has nothing to do with FiOS at all.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

ciurca said:


> Not to start a flame war or political thread, but Verizon really does suck at customer service because they are union. (at least the US based support). They have no incentive to give a crap.
> 
> What I really wish is to be able to know if it is ever coming to my area. No one can ever give me that answer.


I'm not trying to play 'defend the big company' or anything, but I have to give my own personal perspective here. For starters, their tech support is excellent. Because their installers get paid by the hour, and not by the job, they really take their time on the installations. I had internet service hooked up 16 months before I got TV service, so I had two different installers. Both were among the best I've ever seen. They were clearly well-trained - they knew their stuff. They were curteous... they were on time... and like I said, they were knowledgeable as hell. And because they didn't feel compelled to rush the job, they both stayed until they knew everything was working. I can't speak highly enough about these guys.

I contrast that with the last DirecTV installer I had. He missed the first appointment - not his fault - they seriously overbooked this guy. When I managed to reschedule, for a few days later, they showed up on time. Note - I just wanted a second DVR installed. That was it. They had to run one cable all of 10' to my multi-switch, plug it in, and activate it. After sitting on hold for 10 minutes, waiting for DirecTV to activate my box, he handed me the phone, and told me what to tell them. They left without even knowing if the box they gave me worked at all. I was seriously pissed off at that point.

Their phone tech support is just as good (Verizon's). I came back from vacation to find that my router was dead. I called Verizon, and the guy sat with me for 45 minutes helping me trouble-shoot the problem. Then he said something that really threw me. He said 'we're detecting that your battery backup (since you power your service for FiOS, the phone gets a backup unit to give you phone service should you lose power) is having issues.' I went down and checked - it was showing green, which I told the guy. 'Still, I'd like to send someone out to check on it.' The guy showed up about 14 hours later.

Another time I had issues with handful of channels pixellating. They suspected that it was part of my equipment. I called around midnight. They sent someone out - the guy was at my house literally 8 hours after I made that call.

Yes, their billing dept could be frustrating to deal with, but their tech support is among the best I've seen. And I can give a couple other examples, but I'll hold off for now.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Plus you get the unparalleled service and accounting departments that Verizon uses to keep their landlines and cell phones running so superbly.


Maybe luck of the draw? Up until 3 years ago, I was a NY Verizon cell and home phone customer all my life, dating back to their "NY Telephone" roots. Never had a problem with either service or billing.

I'm now just a Verizon FiOS internet customer. A very tall truck barreled down my street a few weeks ago and tore down the fiber from the poles running to 8 homes, including mine. Verizon got a 3-4 person crew out and had my internet service restored in under 4 hours. They even replaced the shingles that were torn off when the fiber strain relief bracket was ripped from my home. Can't complain about that!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ciurca said:


> Not to start a flame war or political thread, but Verizon really does suck at customer service because they are union. (at least the US based support). They have no incentive to give a crap.


Even if you go to their stores, they can't answer your questions correctly. I read manuals, I don't assume that I know how to do everything. They don't read the manuals unless it is the last resort. There's really not that many phones that they have for sale that they can't read some manuals.



> What I really wish is to be able to know if it is ever coming to my area. No one can ever give me that answer.


Same here, I call them up and it's like they have no plans to refer to or information available to them. Poorly run company.

Great cellular network, tho.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Maybe luck of the draw? Up until 3 years ago, I was a NY Verizon cell and home phone customer all my life, dating back to their "NY Telephone" roots. Never had a problem with either service or billing.
> 
> I'm now just a Verizon FiOS internet customer. A very tall truck barreled down my street a few weeks ago and tore down the fiber from the poles running to 8 homes, including mine. Verizon got a 3-4 person crew out and had my internet service restored in under 4 hours. They even replaced the shingles that were torn off when the fiber strain relief bracket was ripped from my home. Can't complain about that!


It's not just me. I know several business owners that are disgusted with the landline service. Last year it took me months to convince their accounting department that they didn't owe me around $150 on an account that was in my name. I don't even have an account in my name.

Go to a Verizon store and all you hear are arguments. Poorly run company.

Rich


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

ciurca said:


> Observation 1. Picture quality is no better.


Conclusion 1. The TV your using is not very good


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/verizon-boss-hangs-up-on-landline-phone-business/


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

dreadlk said:


> Conclusion 1. The TV your using is not very good


I later on posted that I couldn't accurately compare, since his tv's aren't the same quality of mine.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

There are only 2 things that keep me from going to FIOS and it is available at my house.

1) Sunday Ticket. I'm a 49ers fan and the wife is a Dolphins fan. She loves Sunday Ticket and would hate to give it up.

2) The recording space. 20 hours of HD has gotta be on a good day. I had one of the same type of motorolla boxes from comcast for a dvr for a while. I don't think I could reliably get 20 hours of HD recording on comcasts compressed stuff let alone the full bit rate fios stuff. Yeah you can buy a Tivo or a Moxi but then you loose out of on demand and a number of other cool features. I did see another post that implied they did have new boxes with 320gb hds in them but they were stil very limited availability.

As far as Comcast goes. I've found some competition motivates them well. Got Comcast, Fios and clear wireless as options here and comcast gave me 25$ a month for their 12mbs service for a year and have been very good at keeping their service stable.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

evan_s said:


> 2) The recording space. 20 hours of HD has gotta be on a good day. I had one of the same type of motorolla boxes from comcast for a dvr for a while. I don't think I could reliably get 20 hours of HD recording on comcasts compressed stuff let alone the full bit rate fios stuff. Yeah you can buy a Tivo or a Moxi but then you loose out of on demand and a number of other cool features. I did see another post that implied they did have new boxes with 320gb hds in them but they were stil very limited availability.


Seems to be about right.... On our upstairs box, we have:
Used Drive Space (45%)	
Used HD Recording Time : 8 Hours 4 Minutes
Used SD Recording Time : 3 Hours 1 Minutes

On our downstairs box:
Used Drive Space (72%)	
Used HD Recording Time : 13 Hours 34 Minutes
Used SD Recording Time : 16 Hours 2 Minutes

I will be looking into the larger DVR that they supposedly have coming as MRV with that would be awesome and save even more $$.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I just checked my mom's Multiroom DVR via the web interface (how cool is that? ). It's reporting:

_Used Drive Space (41%)	
Used HD Recording Time : 7 Hours 34 Minutes
Used SD Recording Time : 0 Minutes_

If my math is right, that's only 18.5 hours of HD 'til 100%. 

(454 minutes/.41 = 1107 minutes)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> I just checked my mom's Multiroom DVR via the web interface (how cool is that? ). It's reporting:
> 
> _Used Drive Space (41%)
> Used HD Recording Time : 7 Hours 34 Minutes
> ...


If that's at MPEG2 that sounds like it might be a 300G drive. That's about what they used to estimate the first 20-700s at, I think. Altho, I did fill up one drive and had 40+ hours of recordings that were all MPEG2 on it.

Rich


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## Guardian (Oct 30, 2009)

braven said:


> So if I switch to FIOS how much do they charge for the NFLST? Just wondering.


FIOS doesnt have NFLSDT. :icon_cry: That is only available with D* :feelbette


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

I have been able to make a relative comparo between FIOS and D* SD...because we both have the exact same TV....

The winner is ...........FIOS

More non sports channels

Noticably better pic quality

Prices are very competitive.


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## Ritter7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Interesting all of this discussion of Verizon FIOS. 
Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?
It has rumored for years that we would get it soon in Sherman, Texas. 
Part of the Fibre has been run since 2003 and some cities within 50 miles 
of Sherman have it. We seem to be no closer today than then. 
I have Verizon landline and DSL because dry loop is not allowed in Texas.
Verizon being cheaper in any context is hard for me to believe. 
As for Directv, they may not be cheaper, but I find their picture quality
quite good and channel selection is fine. 
They have one other quality-they are available.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

Ritter7 said:


> I have Verizon landline and DSL because dry loop is not allowed in Texas.


AT&T has offered dry loop DSL in San Antonio for at least a couple of years.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Ritter7 said:


> Interesting all of this discussion of Verizon FIOS.
> Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?


Me.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Different strokes for different folk. Both good options.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

Ritter7 said:


> Interesting all of this discussion of Verizon FIOS.
> Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?


I do & I have both services, get all the HD I could want.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Ritter7 said:


> Interesting all of this discussion of Verizon FIOS.
> Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?
> It has rumored for years that we would get it soon in Sherman, Texas.
> Part of the Fibre has been run since 2003 and some cities within 50 miles
> ...


Verizon has slowed their roll-out to new markets, but a large number of people within their footprint have the ability to get fios. As for cost, as you can determine from the various threads, it all depends on your setup. For what I have, FiOS is the cheaper option. Even if I were to pay ala carte prices, and even with their higher h/w fees, I'm still paying less than I would have with DirecTV. When you toss in the triple-play bundle, and my price really goes down.

Just to give you some sense of cost, I have their Extreme HD package (which includes all non-premium channels - including all the channels that used to be part of their now defunct sports package), and I have their movie pack, which includes Starz, Showtime, TMC, Sundance, IFC, Encore and Flix. I have their multi-room DVR, with a second SD STB. I also have their triple play bundle - which includes 25/15 internet, and their freedom essentials phone package. All told, my monthly bill comes out (including taxes and fees) to $175/month. If I were to get all that separately, with DirecTV as my TV service, I would be paying a heck of alot more. Probably over $200/month.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I wish I had the choice but in an area controlled by TDS TeleCom I doubt it will ever happen out here. they have already refused companies right of way access to run fiber optic.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

jpl said:


> Verizon has slowed their roll-out to new markets, .


Any idea WHY jpl?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Any idea WHY jpl?


Yep - the economy. They're nearing the end of the initial roll-out of FiOS, and they're trying to up their penetration rate in existing markets. As a result, from what I gather, there are no new regional markets planned for 2010. What happens after that, not sure. But they're trying to recoup some of their $23Billion investment.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Any idea WHY jpl?


Most likely the economy! One has to be very cautious about laying out cash on expansion when the consumer base is cutting back on buying.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Ritter7 said:


> Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?
> It has rumored for years that we would get it soon in Sherman, Texas.
> Part of the Fibre has been run since 2003 and some cities within 50 miles
> of Sherman have it. We seem to be no closer today than then.
> ...


I hear ya. I spoke with someone who worked, well they said they worked, for Verizon about the likelihood of FIOS and they just shook their head. Said Corning had even offered to provide the fiber for the roll-out and it was still a no go. The best I can get is 1.5Mbps down, supposedly because of the old copper in my location. So, the prognosis for me is not any time soon, if ever.

I've seen mention of cable suing Verizon over it's cherry pick approach, serving financially upscale communities first, with FIOS. Of course, Verizon could counter that cable makes rural customers pay for a feed to their residence out-of-pocket. In the meantime, we're left to sit and spin.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ritter7 said:


> [...] Verizon being cheaper in any context is hard for me to believe. [...]


My mom just signed up for a Verizon "quadruple-play" in NY. Here's what she's getting for $240/month, including taxes:

- FiOSTV "Extreme HD" package package.
- HBO/Cinemax.
- 1 Multiroom-DVR plus 2 STB's (3 displays total).
- 35/20 FiOS internet. It was 25/10, but they upped it as an incentive to add HBO to the TV package.
- 2 land phone lines, 1 with unlimited calling (Freedom plan), 1 just a local/fax line.
- 2 Cell phone accounts with 700 shared minutes and free phones.

She also got $150 cash back on a debit card promotion. They asked for a one year commitment in return for a two year price guarantee.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

jpl said:


> Verizon has slowed their roll-out to new markets, but a large number of people within their footprint have the ability to get fios.


They arent the only ones. U-verse at least in my area have also slowed roll out. They are doing a lot of marketing in the existing areas to increase penetration but havent really been expanding. I read of a few zoning issues also with the placements of some of their units. Surprisingly many communities starting fighting them on how ugly and massive they were. FIOS is not available down here which is shame cause I would give a try.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Steve said:


> My mom just signed up for a Verizon "quadruple-play" in NY. Here's what she's getting for $240/month, including taxes:
> 
> - FiOSTV "Extreme HD" package package.
> - HBO/Cinemax.
> ...


This seems to be the case always but is it a rule? My cousin in NY also was told this limit which works out fine for him but I wonder what they do if you need more STB's?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

35/20..I would sell my wifes soul for that.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> 35/20..I would sell my wifes soul for that.


Hmmmmm maybe we can arrange something !Devil_lol


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> 35/20..I would sell my wifes soul for that.


Tell me about it! When I called Verizon to go over my mom's order, I begged the CSR to switch her FiOS internet provisioning with mine, but it was a no go! :lol: I pay $42/month for 10/2 and can use the bandwidth for D*, but it is largely wasted on my mom, who mainly uses it for web browsing and e-mail. FiOS VOD bandwidth is separate from their internet provisioning, so that 35/20 is always available, no matter what's happening on the TV side.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> Hmmmmm maybe we can arrange something !Devil_lol


well there is a line, she don't know it but I've pretty much put her soul out on consignment  

back OT a bit, out here is rural areas of maine we still have MANY that either have 26k phone or, trees allowing, sat internet. its a big issue up here actually.
I have TDS 3/1 (depending on day of week....) and I might get lucky at end of next rear and get 10 dsl.
that is only option.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Movieman said:


> This seems to be the case always but is it a rule? My cousin in NY also was told this limit which works out fine for him but I wonder what they do if you need more STB's?


Good question. I wonder if you can add a second multi-room DVR, if you're willing to pay another $20/month for it?


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

David MacLeod said:


> 35/20..I would sell my wifes soul for that.


:lol:



Steve said:


> I pay $42/month for 10/2 and can use the bandwidth for D*, but it is largely wasted on my mom, who mainly uses it for web browsing and e-mail. FiOS VOD bandwidth is separate from their internet provisioning, so that 35/20 is always available, no matter what's happening on the TV side.


It's just not fair. Geez, web browsing and e-mail? You could do that with MSN TV terminals. I'd just like to get 7Mbps down so I could do some HD.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

bidger said:


> :lol:
> 
> It's just not fair. Geez, web browsing and e-mail? You could do that with MSN TV terminals. I'd just like to get 7Mbps down so I could do some HD.


I can do it with the 3, but its the limit, using the roku and netflix.
considering dsl speed picture is not too bad actually.
lot better than netflix on pc.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> Good question. I wonder if you can add a second multi-room DVR, if you're willing to pay another $20/month for it?


You could... although I'm not sure why you would want one. You can only set up one DVR as your home media (aka multi-room) DVR for now. DVR to DVR feeds are coming, but they're not here yet. As for adding STBs, you can certainly do that. Currently their architecture supports up to 7 IP-addressable boxes, and 3 non-IP-addressable boxes, per household. That's a limit based off the router more than anything. The current router that they use can support up to 7 IP addressable devices. So you could get 7 DVRs if you wanted. Their newer routers will support up to 15 such devices.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

dreadlk said:


> Most likely the economy! One has to be very cautious about laying out cash on expansion when the consumer base is cutting back on buying.


I also wonder about HD provider subscriptions . I'm thinking that they may actually DECLINE next year. Anyone else think that folks will still be drastically cutting back on unnecessary items like this in coming months?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

nope, people laid off need something to do during the day.
they may alter package tier but most would keep hd access.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

bidger said:


> I hear ya. I spoke with someone who worked, well they said they worked, for Verizon about the likelihood of FIOS and they just shook their head. Said Corning had even offered to provide the fiber for the roll-out and it was still a no go. The best I can get is 1.5Mbps down, supposedly because of the old copper in my location. So, the prognosis for me is not any time soon, if ever.
> 
> I've seen mention of cable suing Verizon over it's cherry pick approach, serving financially upscale communities first, with FIOS. Of course, Verizon could counter that cable makes rural customers pay for a feed to their residence out-of-pocket. In the meantime, we're left to sit and spin.


Ugh... I keep hearing that cherry-picking argument. It's nonsense. For starters, if you saw the areas around here that got FiOS first, including mine, you'd see that that notion is just nonsense. I live in a nice neighborhood, but if they were to cherry-pick, we wouldn't be tops of the list, and we've had FiOS for a few years already. Also, FiOS is considered cable. As such they're required to set up franchise agreements with areas that they roll tv service into. Those agreements include roll-out provisions - e.g. to get the deal with Philly they had to agree to wire up the entire city within 7 years.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

steve said:


> I pay $42/month for 10/2 [...]





bidger said:


> It's just not fair. Geez, web browsing and e-mail? You could do that with MSN TV terminals. I'd just like to get 7Mbps down so I could do some HD.





David MacLeod said:


> I can do it with the 3, but its the limit, using the roku and netflix.


In this April NYT article about Cablevision, a Verizon spokesman had this to say:

_"We can go to 400 mbps *[into the home]* with the technology we are now deploying -- without giving up TV channel space. We can add higher speeds at the time of our choosing, but no announcement to make today."_


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> nope, people laid off need something to do during the day.
> they may alter package tier but most would keep hd access.


Yes, but if the unemployment and severance is finished I'd bet that OTA will be the end result, unfortunately for ALL media providers.

It seems that although UE numbers are dropping slightly, it only means that these folks have exhausted their benefits, most have not returned to work. 
Still seeing layoffs in the 125k /mo range.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

even cablevision would be nice here, but town refuses to do it


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Steve said:


> Good question. I wonder if you can add a second multi-room DVR, if you're willing to pay another $20/month for it?


Currently you can only have 1 multi-room DVR. Someone posted earlier that in the future more then 1 might be possible. That, and the 20hr limit, and only 2 "tuners" to serve all the multi-room-STB's make Fios TV a no-go for me.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

David MacLeod said:


> I can do it with the 3, but its the limit, using the roku and netflix.
> considering dsl speed picture is not too bad actually.
> lot better than netflix on pc.


Yeah, I know 3Mbps is the baseline, and the reason I pestered a Verizon installer last Summer when there was an announced upgrade of 3 Mbps minimum for Verizon DSL customers in most areas. I'd just like to be above the baseline.



jpl said:


> Ugh... I keep hearing that cherry-picking argument. It's nonsense.


Like I said, Verizon could make counterarguments about where and how cable is deployed. And I'm aware that agreements have to be in place with municipalities. But, and I know there are always exceptions like the one you cite with your location, I do think they do target locations where there will be the most immediate return on their investment. It is a smart business approach and they are a business after all.



jpl said:


> Also, FiOS is considered cable.


True, but there's also no doubt it's in direct competition with the already established cable cos, along with satellite.


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## Goldlexus (Jun 23, 2002)

We are conidering FIOS. It is now available here. But we wont make the switch until they have a dvr with larger storage capacity. What verizon has now is a joke and not worth the switch.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

bidger said:


> Yeah, I know 3Mbps is the baseline, and the reason I pestered a Verizon installer last Summer when there was an announced upgrade of 3 Mbps minimum for Verizon DSL customers in most areas. I'd just like to be above the baseline.
> 
> Like I said, Verizon could make counterarguments about where and how cable is deployed. And I'm aware that agreements have to be in place with municipalities. But, and I know there are always exceptions like the one you cite with your location, I do think they do target locations where there will be the most immediate return on their investment. It is a smart business approach and they are a business after all.
> 
> True, but there's also no doubt it's in direct competition with the already established cable cos, along with satellite.


The thing that's so silly about the other cable companies making that cherry picking argument (and they are - I wasn't venting at you, btw - I keep hearing this garbage from companies like Comcast) is that those other cable companies have been trying like hell to keep FiOS out of their backyard. Look at Philly. Comcast was the primary driver in keeping Verizon out for the last couple years. Their concern for consumer protection was touching - really it was - even as they were raking their customers over the coals. They've also been trying to make moves into Wilmington, DE - again Comcast has been pushing to keep them out. Nothing against Wilmington, but to consider any part of the city as 'cherry-picking' shows a lack of understanding of that city.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> The thing that's so silly about the other cable companies making that cherry picking argument (and they are - I wasn't venting at you, btw - I keep hearing this garbage from companies like Comcast) is that those other cable companies have been trying like hell to keep FiOS out of their backyard. Look at Philly. *Comcast was the primary driver in keeping Verizon out for the last couple years. Their concern for consumer protection was touching - really it was - even as they were raking their customers over the coals. * They've also been trying to make moves into Wilmington, DE - again Comcast has been pushing to keep them out. Nothing against Wilmington, but to consider any part of the city as 'cherry-picking' shows a lack of understanding of that city.


That's an ironic basis for an argument;

What even plausible argument(s), real or imagined, can Comcast try and offer to support the view that the consumer is being in any way protected by preventing FiOS from entering a market?

Choice and price competition is always a good thing for the consumer in any way you look at it I would think.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

I think that in years past any service that was provided by the "phone" company was closely related to a monopoly. 

Of courset that has changed but the stigma is still there among people old enough to be in postions to create the regs for phone and related services.

I would say that todays cable companies are some of the worst monopolies out there that the everyday consumer comes into contact with, although there is OTA and sat and some FIOS many people still due to many reasons have access to media through only a single cable provider.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> That's an ironic basis for an argument;
> 
> What even plausible argument(s), real or imagined, can Comcast try and offer to support the view that the consumer is being in any way protected by preventing FiOS from entering a market?
> 
> Choice and price competition is always a good thing for the consumer in any way you look at it I would think.


I'm a big fan of eliminating franchise agreements. I understand why they're there - to protect consumers. I just don't understand how you can protect a consumer by preventing them from getting access to a competing product. In the past, when cable was considered a utility, I could see the point - municipalities basically granted monopoly control status to a particular company. In order to ensure that company wouldn't screw the residents, they had to agree to specific terms. These days such a deal makes no sense. Competition for TV service has never been higher, and all you end up doing with these agreements is in protecting the customer from getting a better deal.

As for how the cable companies could do this... easy. Comcast's HQ is in Philly. They have a big, state-of-the-art building there. Their name is on lots of stuff in the city. So they give alot of money to the city. When they whisper in some local politician's ear, they listen. Or at least they did. But at least for Philly, Comcast's argument was simply that Verizon couldn't cover the entire city, and that it was 'dangerous' for the city to take such a gamble in giving a franchise agreement to the company. It sounds absolutely silly, but it worked for a while. Now Verizon is actually rolling into Philly.

Finally, politicians are pretty lazy when it comes to this stuff. So, when it came time for Wilmington, DE to decide on an agreement, they said 'no' just because Philly had, at the time, said 'no'... and Wilmington decided that if it didn't work for Philly, then it wouldn't work for them either. Of course, just a couple months later, Philly changed their mind and said 'yes'.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Fios makes you pay $16/m per HD DVR up to 20 hrs. of HD content., Home Media HD DVR $20/m up to 20 hrs. of HD content.
> 
> HD box $10/m each.


They don't make you pay that. I have two HD Tivos (one HD-XL) with FiOS. All I pay Verizon is for the M-series cable cards, one for each TiVo. It's $3.99 a month per.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Capmeister said:


> They don't make you pay that. I have two HD Tivos (one HD-XL) with FiOS. All I pay Verizon is for the M-series cable cards, one for each TiVo. It's $3.99 a month per.


He means if you use their boxes, you paid $400 or more up front for your HD Tivos, and the recurring Tivo sub fee per month, + the cablecard rental.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> He means if you use their boxes, you paid $400 or more up front for your HD Tivos, and the recurring Tivo sub fee per month, + the cablecard rental.


If you use FIOS boxes, there are no upfront lease fees unlike with D*. Just the one-year contract. D* also requires a two-year contract.

You'd need a Excel spreadsheet to figure out the costs, and also take the fact that you might not need a DVR for each TV if you use the Home Media option. Also, the subscription is cheaper and the FIOS phone/Internet/TV bundles are definitely cheaper. So the annual cost will vary for each household.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> If you use FIOS boxes, there are no upfront lease fees unlike with D*. Just the one-year contract. D* also requires a two-year contract.
> 
> You'd need a Excel spreadsheet to figure out the costs, and also take the fact that you might not need a DVR for each TV if you use the Home Media option. Also, the subscription is cheaper and the FIOS phone/Internet/TV bundles are definitely cheaper. So the annual cost will vary for each household.


One minor correction here - with FiOS there is no contract associated with hardware. I could get 7 DVRs and not have a contract at all. With FiOS contracts are associated with the service IF you get a bundle. I can go totally ala carte from day one with FiOS if I desired. But if I get, say, a triple play, now I'm locked into a contract.

There's one reason I actually prefer this setup - getting a discount isn't a one-time deal. If I had DirecTV, I get a discount on my hardware by getting that contract. Think about how much you would pay upfront for your hardware if you wanted to buy the hardware vs. leasing it. But once I sign up, and get that hardware discount, and get locked into a contract, the only way I can get any further discount is to get a new piece of hardware.

That's not the case with FiOS. Once my existing contract is up, I can renew for a new triple play. Granted, I'll get whatever the current deal is, but still I can keep getting new deals ad infinitum. But... what happens if I sign up for a deal, and then a month later a better/different deal comes along? Well, I can renew at any time... even if I'm in the middle of an existing contract. I did that a year ago when Verizon first started their Extreme HD package. I had just renewed my contract a couple months earlier, but I wanted the Extreme HD channels, so I just renewed my contract for the second time within a couple months.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> I also wonder about HD provider subscriptions . I'm thinking that they may actually DECLINE next year. Anyone else think that folks will still be drastically cutting back on unnecessary items like this in coming months?


Absolutely, people are going to keep cutting back until they see the economy start to grow and jobs and bonuses return. All the providers, retailers etc are going to adjust to this by cutting back in turn.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Absolutely, people are going to keep cutting back until they see the economy start to grow and jobs and bonuses return. All the providers, retailers etc are going to adjust to this by cutting back in turn.


I don't think there's going to be a scale-back at all. In fact, because of the economy, I think it'll be the exact opposite. Pay TV subscriptions are at an all time high. They spiked after the economy started to tank. The reason, I believe, is due to substitution spending. Instead of going out to dinner and a movie (which gets very pricey for a family), it's a better deal to watch something on TV and get a pizza.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> even cablevision would be nice here, but town refuses to do it


I can tell you this about Cablevision: Their support is great, their techs (they actually have techs) know what they are doing. Those two items blow away D*s support and lack of trained techs. My Cablevision modem has a booster on it and I just checked and it's running at 23Mbs. Wicked fast.

But, (there's always a but) their DVRs are single tuner and cost about $10 a month. It's just an expensive service. And if Jim Dolan is still in charge of it, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I have a friend who is a Cablevision salesman and he can't believe what I pay and he's admitted to me that the PQ on D* is better.

Rich


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

jpl said:


> I don't think there's going to be a scale-back at all. In fact, because of the economy, I think it'll be the exact opposite. Pay TV subscriptions are at an all time high. They spiked after the economy started to tank. The reason, I believe, is due to substitution spending. Instead of going out to dinner and a movie (which gets very pricey for a family), it's a better deal to watch something on TV and get a pizza.


To some extent I agree but I have already heard some of our employee's talking about certain premium movie channels being of no real interest and talk of dumping them to cut down on the monthly bill. And thats people with good paying Jobs talking, what do you think is happening with people who lost their jobs or are seeing the possibilty of there employer laying them off soon.


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## pappy97 (Nov 14, 2009)

Just moved to the North Dallas suburbs and got DirecTV for TV and FIOS for internet. Never crossed my mind for a second to get FIOS TV because they don't have NFL ST and for NHL CI you get both feeds on DirecTV, only one on FIOS, plus they only have one channel for HD games.

So I have DirecTV Choice Xtra with 2 HD-DVRs, 1 HD receiver with NHL CI (NFLST coming soon if I can get a late season deal or get it next season), plus 50/20 (yes 50 down, 20 up) internet from FIOS. Only thing is that the internet costs me $144.95/month but now with DOD, our blu player using internet and our own personal use (especially including video games), we think it's worth it because none of the various uses we have are noticing speed problems. In fact the only limitations have been on the other end, i.e. the upload speed of DirecTV servers to us, not our down/up.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jpl said:


> Ugh... I keep hearing that cherry-picking argument. It's nonsense. For starters, if you saw the areas around here that got FiOS first, including mine, you'd see that that notion is just nonsense. I live in a nice neighborhood, but if they were to cherry-pick, we wouldn't be tops of the list, and we've had FiOS for a few years already. Also, FiOS is considered cable. As such they're required to set up franchise agreements with areas that they roll tv service into. Those agreements include roll-out provisions - e.g. to get the deal with Philly they had to agree to wire up the entire city within 7 years.


If you don't think they cherry picked places than you have not thought about it much. Where do you start a service? Obviously you will target the places that will make it the most successful. It will meet demographic criteria proven to make money. Your neighborhood was at the top of the list because it met their criteria. Super rich neghborhoods are actually less economical because the houses per square mile are much lower than your 14 per square mile sub division.

If they didn't cherry pick places than they were morons.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

jpl said:


> One minor correction here - with FiOS there is no contract associated with hardware. I could get 7 DVRs and not have a contract at all. With FiOS contracts are associated with the service IF you get a bundle. I can go totally ala carte from day one with FiOS if I desired. But if I get, say, a triple play, now I'm locked into a contract.


I think to get the free installation and the $150 back, you have to sign the one-year contract for service. I don't think anyone orders a la carte initially.

But you are correct. You can order new DVRs without resetting the time left on the contract.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> If you don't think they cherry picked places than you have not thought about it much. Where do you start a service? Obviously you will target the places that will make it the most successful. It will meet demographic criteria proven to make money. Your neighborhood was at the top of the list because it met their criteria. Super rich neghborhoods are actually less economical because the houses per square mile are much lower than your 14 per square mile sub division.
> 
> If they didn't cherry pick places than they were morons.


They absolutely, positively, definitely, without a doubt cherry-picked. They aren't morons. And literally every day, I get a mail notice telling me I have FIOS TV available in my area.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> If you don't think they cherry picked places than you have not thought about it much. Where do you start a service? Obviously you will target the places that will make it the most successful. It will meet demographic criteria proven to make money. Your neighborhood was at the top of the list because it met their criteria. Super rich neghborhoods are actually less economical because the houses per square mile are much lower than your 14 per square mile sub division.
> 
> If they didn't cherry pick places than they were morons.


With all due respect, you're skewing what's normally meant by 'cherry picking'. In this context it means foregoing lower priced neighborhoods, and opting or higher end neighborhoods in an attempt to get customers who would pay more per account (getting higher end services). Yes, Verizon started somewhere. You HAVE to start somewhere. But the notion that once in a particular area they only go after the higher end neighborhoods is what I believe is nonsense.

To determine if they're cherry picking you have to look at how they roll out in one particular town/city/municipality. For example, when they go into Philly, if they only hit the most expensive neighborhoods, you would have a point. The fact that they started in this region, and that my township was one of the first in the region to get FiOS is NOT an example of what's meant by 'cherry picking'. Cherry picking implies that they only go after specific neighborhoods within a town/city/municpality. To say that my area was seen as a good place to start up isn't the same thing at all. Like I said, all companies have to start somewhere in their roll-out. It all depends on how selective they are when they get there. I live in a nice neighborhood, but if they were really cherry picking we wouldn't have gotten FiOS before other sections of my township.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jpl said:


> With all due respect, you're skewing what's normally meant by 'cherry picking'. In this context it means foregoing lower priced neighborhoods, and opting or higher end neighborhoods in an attempt to get customers who would pay more per account (getting higher end services). Yes, Verizon started somewhere. You HAVE to start somewhere. But the notion that once in a particular area they only go after the higher end neighborhoods is what I believe is nonsense.
> 
> To determine if they're cherry picking you have to look at how they roll out in one particular town/city/municipality. For example, when they go into Philly, if they only hit the most expensive neighborhoods, you would have a point. The fact that they started in this region, and that my township was one of the first in the region to get FiOS is NOT an example of what's meant by 'cherry picking'. Cherry picking implies that they only go after specific neighborhoods within a town/city/municpality. To say that my area was seen as a good place to start up isn't the same thing at all. Like I said, all companies have to start somewhere in their roll-out. It all depends on how selective they are when they get there. I live in a nice neighborhood, but if they were really cherry picking we wouldn't have gotten FiOS before other sections of my township.


They did do this though that's my point. Sure they have it for an entire area but door to door sales people and cold calls go to specific demographics. Those neighborhoods were heavily marketed. Even Verizon said that what made they're initial take rate so high was their effective marketing to key areas where the demographics would be successful. There is tons of information we will never know but you can guarantee that they did target specific areas first and foremost than other areas even if it was available. It's just smart business.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

dreadlk said:


> To some extent I agree but I have already heard some of our employee's talking about certain premium movie channels being of no real interest and talk of dumping them to cut down on the monthly bill. And thats people with good paying Jobs talking, what do you think is happening with people who lost their jobs or are seeing the possibilty of there employer laying them off soon.


I have heard similar where I work but mostly its downsizing some of the premiums not cancelling service. More of my friends and family are doing "staycations" and want the in-home entertainment. I was one of those that tried to see if Netflix would work out better for me instead of the premiums but their online selection didnt meet my needs.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

rich584 said:


> But, (there's always a but) their DVRs are single tuner and cost about $10 a month. It's just an expensive service. And if Jim Dolan is still in charge of it, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I have a friend who is a Cablevision salesman and he can't believe what I pay and he's admitted to me that the PQ on D* is better.
> 
> Rich


My Cablevision DVR (SA8300HD) is dual tuner and includes PIP. I can record two shows while watching a third and if desired use PIP to watch two channels simultaneously and swap between tuners at will. It is $9.95 a month, though there was no upfront cost. Multiple DVRs would get expensive fast ...


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## dbsdave (May 1, 2007)

Goldlexus said:


> We are conidering FIOS. It is now available here. But we wont make the switch until they have a dvr with larger storage capacity. What verizon has now is a joke and not worth the switch.


You know you can use a tivo hd with fios, most people find it better than anything from directv, fios, cable company.....dishs might hold up better.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

I have to give Verizon FIOS install an A+. I recently had FIOS installed for internet/phone. (I didn't go with FIOS TV because of the 20 Hour record limit.) It took only 7 days from order to install.

I got confirmation phone calls at all points of the installation. They came out to measure the distance from my house to the box on the street. (1100 feet). They marked and followed the path I suggested avoiding my sprinkler lines and septic system. A guy came out to reconfirm the distance (because the 1100 feet raised a red flag). The actual installer was polite and knowledgable. He placed all of the equipment where I wanted it. He even did a 4 foot wall fish to my media panel.

The installer and I were talking about the router and how I had previously replaced my dead DSL modem/router at Best Buy. He mentioned that I couldn't do that with the FIOS router and gave me a spare one.

The most interesting part was that I got to see him splice an end onto the fiber optic cable. That was some pretty neat stuff.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I've had FIOS for almost three years and DirecTV for the 10 years prior to that. When I switched, FIOS had the best picture quality of any provider, hands down. Since then DirecTV has activated their mpeg4 sats and has finally come close to catching up with FIOS in PQ (but not quite).

The Verizon DVR is pathetic for anyone serious about recording HD programs. For the occasional DVR user, it's probably adequate. I dropped it from consideration almost immediately once I realized its shortcomings and went with two S3 Tivos. If you want a DVR, go with the Tivo HD and an M-card. If you feel really adventurous and like to tinker, consider an HTPC with one of the new CableCARD tuners from Ceton that will be available 1st quarter of next year. It requires only a single M-card and has four tuners that will work with FIOS. You'll need Win 7 with Media Center to use the tuners, which also happens to include its own DVR recording software and has no monthly fees other than the CableCARD rental.

I've had nothing but excellent customer service from Verizon, although getting my long distance service switched from AT&T was a comedy of errors with both companies. My initial installation was exemplory and the techs were well informed. I have had Verizon come out on numerous occasions to fix an internet problem (which turned out to be of my own making) and the fastest response from phone call to knock on the front door was under 30 minutes! If I had to call DirecTV for tech service I'd probably still be waiting. FWIW, I never had to deal with DirecTV in person except for the two painful experiences where they were required to deliver and install a cople of DVRs I had ordered through them. I have done all of my own dish and cable installations from day one and would never allow a DirecTV inside of my house unless I had no other choice.

If nothing else, get FIOS for the internet. I had Comcast wideband and FIOS simply puts it to shame. Comcast will also admonish you if you use excessive bandwidth and threaten to terminate your service if you download too much.

One of the things I really like about Verizon is that I can get my TV, internet, phone, and wireless cell phone services on a single monthly bill. I also get a slight discount on my TV service for having the triple-play package (TV, phone & internet). I am thinking about dropping HBO, however, because they're jacking it up to $21.95 per month, which is absolutely ridiculous.

One other thing - Verizon doesn't play the commitment game like DirecTV. I can make changes to my service at any time with no contract involved, although I believe they require a one-year commitment initially since they are giving you a discount for that period. If I don't like the service, I can cancel at anytime with no early termination fees. I prefer to deal with a company that provides an excellent product and doesn't need to resort to extortion to keep their customers around.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> I have been able to make a relative comparo between FIOS and D* SD...because we both have the exact same TV....
> 
> The winner is ...........FIOS
> 
> ...


I wonder how competitive those prices would be for someone like me with 3 HD DVRs (which I don't consider to be an excessive number of DVRs).

Those 3 DVRs cost me $10 in monthly charges on my DirecTV account, and would cost me $48 per month on a FIOS account


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Is there anyway to increase the recording capacity, either by dropping a larger hard drive into the unit itself, or adding an external drive?


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Ritter7 said:


> Interesting all of this discussion of Verizon FIOS.
> Who actually has a choice between FIOS and Directv?


Since DirecTV is available virtually everywhere, everyone in every market where FIOS is offered has a choice between DirecTV and FIOS.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> I wonder how competitive those prices would be for someone like me with 3 HD DVRs (which I don't consider to be an excessive number of DVRs).
> 
> Those 3 DVRs cost me $10 in monthly charges on my DirecTV account, and would cost me $48 per month on a FIOS account


For 3 DVR's, net all the other D* monthly charges (HD fee, DVR fee, extra outlet fees), FiOS might actually be cheaper. See here. And even cheaper if you go Multiroom DVR, but you bump into that 20 hour of HD limit for the whole household.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Steve said:


> For 3 DVR's, net all the other D* monthly charges (HD fee, DVR fee, extra outlet fees), FiOS might actually be cheaper. See here. And even cheaper if you go Multiroom DVR, but you bump into that 20 hour of HD limit for the whole household.


OK. It's not quite as bad as I was thinking since just like DirecTV, FIOS only charges that $16 for the 2nd and third DVRs, but the 20 hour limit per DVR makes FIOS a complete non-starter for me... I'm about to upgrade my first DirecTV DVR (again) from 160 hr/750GB to 475 hr/2TB.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

cartrivision said:


> OK. It's not quite as bad as I was thinking since just like DirecTV, FIOS only charges that $16 for the 2nd and third DVRs, but the 20 hour limit per DVR makes FIOS a complete non-starter for me... I'm about to upgrade my first DirecTV DVR (again) from 160 hr/750GB to 475 hr/2TB.


Not so here in NJ. I've been "talking" to Fios over the last couple weeks here. It is $16 each DVR including the first. Signup promotions (and the next DirecTV increase & "up front hardware") not withstanding it would cost me $11/month more for 3 HD-DVR's on Fios then on DirecTV. The sales tax alone would add $8 since for some reason DirecTV is not taxed but Fios is. This is for their top package with no premium channels.

See attached which is for 3 HD-DVRs (not inlcuding taxes and fees) . I currently have 4 HD-DVRs and pay $104 after all taxes. The attached image is for 3 HD-DVRs without any taxes. Taxes are around $8.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Not so here in NJ. I've been "talking" to Fios over the last couple weeks here. It is $16 each DVR including the first. Signup promotions (and the next DirecTV increase & "up front hardware") not withstanding it would cost me $11/month more for 3 HD-DVR's on Fios then on DirecTV. The sales tax alone would add $8 since for some reason DirecTV is not taxed but Fios is. This is for their top package with no premium channels.
> 
> See attached which is for 3 HD-DVRs (not inlcuding taxes and fees) . I currently have 4 HD-DVRs and pay $104 after all taxes. The attached image is for 3 HD-DVRs without any taxes. Taxes are around $8.


Correct - the price for the service doesn't include any hardware. You get charged the full price for all STBs/DVRs. So if you get 3 DVRs, it's $48/month.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

Steve said:


> For 3 DVR's, net all the other D* monthly charges (HD fee, DVR fee, extra outlet fees), FiOS might actually be cheaper. See here. And even cheaper if you go Multiroom DVR, but you bump into that 20 hour of HD limit for the whole household.


Sorry, but I think you're wrong on that point. With DirecTV, if you have three HD DVRs on your account, the first one is included in the cost of the programming, then it's $5 each for the other two. DVR service is $6 and HD Access is 10, for a total of $26. However, if you have both HD Access and DVR service on your account you most likely have Plus HD DVR, and there's a discount of a dollar on the DVR service, making the total cost per month for three HD DVRs from DirecTV $25. If FiOS is even $15 for each additional HD DVR as you state, DirecTV is $5 a month ahead-that's $60 a year, or more than two months of HD and DVR service a year!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> Sorry, but I think you're wrong on that point. With DirecTV, if you have three HD DVRs on your account, the first one is included in the cost of the programming, then it's $5 each for the other two. DVR service is $6 and HD Access is 10, for a total of $26. However, if you have both HD Access and DVR service on your account you most likely have Plus HD DVR, and there's a discount of a dollar on the DVR service, making the total for the DirecTV cost per month for three HD DVRs (exclusive of programming charges) $25. If FiOS is even $15 for each additional HD DVR as you state, DirecTV is $5 a month ahead-that's $60 a year, or more than two months of HD and DVR service a year!


Ya. I forgot that the first FiOS DVR isn't free. That said, 3 HR2x's is $10, HD service is $10 and DVR service is $6, if I'm not mistaken. So that's $26 plus whatever DirecTV charges you for the HD DVR's up front ($600 according to the web site), vs. $45 for Verizon and 0$ up front. Difference of $19/month, or $4 difference if you go with one Verizon Multiroom DVR at $20 and 2 STB's at $5 each, total $30/month. But then you're limited to 20 hours/2 tuners recording for the whole home. The savings comes in the programming package.

Looking at programming, it seems to me that Verizon ExtremeHD package is comparable to DirecTV's "Choice Extra" package ($61) plus the HD Extra pack ($5). Verizon has an *$18* advantage there, coming in at $48 vs. $66 for DirecTV, but depending on your state, you may pay more taxes for FiOS TV than DirecTV, so hard to judge apples to apples.

And if your FiOSTV service is part of a Verizon bundle, you save big on phone, cell phone and internet service as well. As I posted earlier in this thread, for $240 including taxes, my mom is getting 35/20 internet, 2 land lines, 2 cell phones with 700 shared minutes, Multiroom DVR with 2 STB's (3 displays total), Extreme HD package, HBO and Cinemax, along with a $150 cash back to her Visa card. One year commitment, 2 year price guarantee, and a single bill for everything.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I currently pay $165 a month for Fios with all movie channels, 20/5, and phone with unlimited local and long distance. I also have three Tivo HDs which I got with lifetime for $900 and 4 clearqam tuners in my Windows 7 PC. The same setup which I previously had on Directv was running me $245 a month without HD since my DTV cost $155 a month and Verizon phone and internet cost $90.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> Ya. I forgot that the first FiOS DVR isn't free. That said, 3 HR2x's is $10, HD service is $10 and DVR service is $6, if I'm not mistaken. So that's $26 plus whatever DirecTV charges you for the HD DVR's up front ($600 according to the web site), vs. $45 for Verizon and 0$ up front. Difference of $19/month, or $4 difference if you go with one Verizon Multiroom DVR at $20 and 2 STB's at $5 each, total $30/month. But then you're limited to 20 hours/2 tuners recording for the whole home. The savings comes in the programming package.
> 
> Looking at programming, it seems to me that Verizon ExtremeHD package is comparable to DirecTV's "Choice Extra" package ($61) plus the HD Extra pack ($5). Verizon has an *$18* advantage there, coming in at $48 vs. $66 for DirecTV, but depending on your state, you may pay more taxes for FiOS TV than DirecTV, so hard to judge apples to apples.
> 
> And if your FiOSTV service is part of a Verizon bundle, you save big on phone, cell phone and internet service as well. As I posted earlier in this thread, for $240 including taxes, my mom is getting 35/20 internet, 2 land lines, 2 cell phones with 700 shared minutes, Multiroom DVR with 2 STB's (3 displays total), Extreme HD package, HBO and Cinemax, along with a $150 cash back to her Visa card. One year commitment, 2 year price guarantee, and a single bill for everything.


I wanted to put one clarification out there. Verizon, for some reason, has slightly different pricing structures for customers in the NY/Northern NJ markets vs. the rest of their base. It's small, but meaningful. With hardware, they charge $10 per HD STB for everyone outside NY/NJ. For people in those markets, it's lower - $6/month.

Also for programming, there's a slight difference. In NY/NJ you pay less for Extreme HD than the rest of the FiOS market (you get better bundles than we do, e.g.). There's a reason you guys get the price breaks that the rest of us don't - Verizon is trying to pull in customers from NYC. One other point - even though we pay a little more for Extreme HD, we get the sports pack for free (it's included in the Extreme HD package) - whereas you guys don't. You would have to pay the $7/month to get the sports pack.

Still, even if you were to do that, you're monthly bill would STILL be lower than mine (not by much... but by a couple bucks). Finally, finally - if you're a longer term customer (going back to the Premier days), and you've never upgraded to Extreme, that means you're grandfathered into their old Premier package. In your market a Premier customer would get all the HD channels that Verizon put out there that are in line with that package. However, outside your market, if you're still a premier customer, you didn't get all the newer HD channels that they added. Any HD channels added since they created their Extreme HD package wouldn't be available to a Premier customer outside of NY/NJ. However inside NY/NJ those HD channels WOULD be available.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

kevinturcotte said:


> Is there anyway to increase the recording capacity, either by dropping a larger hard drive into the unit itself, or adding an external drive?


No. That's the major reason I went with Tivo over the FIOS DVR.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

But don't forget the bundle savings on Internet. I get 25/15 that's regularly the $64.99 service for $37.99. That beats the $49.99 I was paying them for 15/5.....

Best thing to do is add up TV + Internet + Phone (if applicable) and see who has the best deal. For us, it was Verizon.


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## dbsdave (May 1, 2007)

Brennok said:


> I currently pay $165 a month for Fios with all movie channels, 20/5, and phone with unlimited local and long distance. I also have three Tivo HDs which I got with lifetime for $900 and 4 clearqam tuners in my Windows 7 PC. The same setup which I previously had on Directv was running me $245 a month without HD since my DTV cost $155 a month and Verizon phone and internet cost $90.


Compatible media center tuners? What an interesting idea directv.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Yeah this was one of the benefits I didn't even realize I was missing while I was with DTV for 6 years or so. I was excited when I heard Directv was working on one especially since this was before the quad tuner version Ceton is coming out with. Once I heard the DTV one was scrapped and Ceton was making one that would work with Fios it was a no brainer.

I still froze my DTV account but will probably shut it down here soon. The new Tivo was the only reason I was keeping it open but it is looking less and less like that will be anytime soon or enough to bring me back.


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> FIOS = No NFL-ST+SF ...Barely any HD on NBA-LP, MLB-EI, or NHL-CI
> 
> No thanks.


DITTO:eek2:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

FWIW, I just saw this Verizon $135 "quadruple play" offer while checking out the LATimes.com website. There's also another $60 in "real" savings when signing up via the web. A one-year commitment is required.

Offer includes 450 minutes of nationwide cell service monthly, along with 15/5 internet and the "Freedom Essentials" home phone plan. If you add 3 DVR's ($45), "Extreme HD" service ($10 more), and applicable taxes and fees to this, I'm guessing the total price for all four services would run around $210/month, depending on which state you live in. Everything on one-bill and no up-front cash outlay.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

If the DVR costs are putting you off FIOS, consider this. In the next few months there will be several CableCARD tuners available from Ceton and other manufacturers that will allow you to turn a PC into a DVR that is capable of recording encrypted programming from FIOS and digital cable. Ceton is offering three different models. One with dual tuners, one with four tuners, and one with six tuners. The six-tuner model will only be made available to OEMs so you can only get it with a turnkey HTPC package.

The benefit of this is quite obvious. You only need a single M-card to use any of these tuners. Guide data costs you nothing and there are no additional fees other than the CableCARD rental, which I believe is currently $3.99 from Verizon. You can add whatever capacity you like. FIOS also currently has no DRM flags attached to any of their channels so you can record to your PC and copy it to whatever media you desire with no anti-copying problems. The new CableCARD tuners will only work with Windows Media Center in Windows 7, AFAIK. Win 7 MC includes a DVR program and downloads the guide data for the channel lineup you specify during setup.

If you're concerned about using multiple tuners simultaneously while recording, rest assured it is not a problem. I have an HTPC with six ATSC tuners and I have been able to record from all six tuners at the same time while playing back a previously recorded show with no issues. When the Ceton tuners become available you can bet I'll be adding a quad-tuner model to my HTPC and dumping both my S3 Tivos.


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## Ritter7 (Apr 8, 2004)

My point was that this is an awful lot of discussion about FIOS considering that it is only
available in a few areas. 
I have cities 30 miles away that have FIOS and the fibre lines were laid out 6 years ago
and still there is no sign that we will ever have it in Sherman. 
Sour grapes on my part, I guess. 
I have Verizon DSL and am required to have a landline to get it when most of my calling is done with cell phones. 
I think Verizon needs to rethink its strategy.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I would say it doesn't yet rival cable, but you could consider it a regional-like cable company since it is all over (if limited in availability).

http://www.dslreports.com/gmaps/fios


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

captain_video said:


> If the DVR costs are putting you off FIOS, consider this. In the next few months there will be several CableCARD tuners available from Ceton and other manufacturers that will allow you to turn a PC into a DVR that is capable of recording encrypted programming from FIOS and digital cable. Ceton is offering three different models. One with dual tuners, one with four tuners, and one with six tuners. The six-tuner model will only be made available to OEMs so you can only get it with a turnkey HTPC package.
> 
> The benefit of this is quite obvious. You only need a single M-card to use any of these tuners. Guide data costs you nothing and there are no additional fees other than the CableCARD rental, which I believe is currently $3.99 from Verizon. You can add whatever capacity you like. FIOS also currently has no DRM flags attached to any of their channels so you can record to your PC and copy it to whatever media you desire with no anti-copying problems. The new CableCARD tuners will only work with Windows Media Center in Windows 7, AFAIK. Win 7 MC includes a DVR program and downloads the guide data for the channel lineup you specify during setup.
> 
> If you're concerned about using multiple tuners simultaneously while recording, rest assured it is not a problem. I have an HTPC with six ATSC tuners and I have been able to record from all six tuners at the same time while playing back a previously recorded show with no issues. When the Ceton tuners become available you can bet I'll be adding a quad-tuner model to my HTPC and dumping both my S3 Tivos.


Once that happens, or Moxi updates the Moxi Mates to watch live tv through the main DVR I will go back to FIOS, well plus once Verizon gets their tech,customer service support corrected.


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm considering FiOS. If I move over to their Extreme package with one DVR and 2 STBs, the price would be in the same ballpark as my DirecTV Choice Plus package but I would gain the following useful channels (including a few that I don't get without paying more for D*s HD Extra package):
Versus(!)
BBC World News
CNN International
All the local broadcast subchannels
HDNet Movies
MGM
Universal
Smithsonian
Palladia
Local access

Plus I'd add the HD versions of Lifetime, Lifetime Movie Network and the Travel Channel. The FiOS SD channels would reportedly look way better, and my Internet speed would get increased to 25/25 on the triple play. All for less than I'm paying for Verizon 20/5 double play bundled with DirecTV, although I'm sure I could negotiate a D* renewal discount to make the price about the same.

On the downside with FiOS I'd lose considerable DVR storage capacity, and I'd lose The 101 and IFC (available only with a movie package that I don't want to pay for). The one that I'd miss the most would be IFC but it's not even carried in HD on DirecTV. I don't watch The 101 much, and don't care about NFL ST.

Both options have their pros and cons. With DirecTV I'm on the hook for any equipment repairs without paying more for a protection plan, what about FiOS? Either way, it looks to me like FiOS would be the better option for my needs. Anyone want to try to talk to out of it?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

ciurca said:


> After switching to D* last April, I had to give up my cable modem, didn't want to pay the non tv service price.


Move to a real state. That practice is illegal in CA. Cox *USED* to charge an *extra $10* for cable internet access without TV. A few years ago that surcharge mysteriously disappeared. Since when has a cable company ever LOWERED the price of anything? Finally, our govt has done something right.

Now they are going to f it up all by putting a bunch of pot heads on the road .

We pay $44.99 for 10Mbps downstream and 768Kbps upstream. We are more of a leech household LOL, so no real need for massive upload speed. They have another tier above us thats 20Mbs downstream and 1.5Mbps upstream, but they also want $59.99 for that.


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## Gooser711 (Oct 29, 2007)

captain_video said:


> If the DVR costs are putting you off FIOS, consider this. In the next few months there will be several CableCARD tuners available from Ceton and other manufacturers that will allow you to turn a PC into a DVR that is capable of recording encrypted programming from FIOS and digital cable. Ceton is offering three different models. One with dual tuners, one with four tuners, and one with six tuners. The six-tuner model will only be made available to OEMs so you can only get it with a turnkey HTPC package.
> 
> The benefit of this is quite obvious. You only need a single M-card to use any of these tuners. Guide data costs you nothing and there are no additional fees other than the CableCARD rental, which I believe is currently $3.99 from Verizon. You can add whatever capacity you like. FIOS also currently has no DRM flags attached to any of their channels so you can record to your PC and copy it to whatever media you desire with no anti-copying problems. The new CableCARD tuners will only work with Windows Media Center in Windows 7, AFAIK. Win 7 MC includes a DVR program and downloads the guide data for the channel lineup you specify during setup.
> 
> If you're concerned about using multiple tuners simultaneously while recording, rest assured it is not a problem. I have an HTPC with six ATSC tuners and I have been able to record from all six tuners at the same time while playing back a previously recorded show with no issues. When the Ceton tuners become available you can bet I'll be adding a quad-tuner model to my HTPC and dumping both my S3 Tivos.


Thanks for this post, this is very interesting... I'm looking into moving to FiOS and getting a Moxi with 2 Moxi Mates but this might be a better option. Just waiting for FiOS to add MSG HD, hoping Cablevision doesn't take the FCC decision to court. Patiently waiting...


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Move to a real state. That practice is illegal in CA. Cox *USED* to charge an *extra $10* for cable internet access without TV. A few years ago that surcharge mysteriously disappeared. Since when has a cable company ever LOWERED the price of anything? Finally, our govt has done something right.
> 
> Now they are going to f it up all by putting a bunch of pot heads on the road .
> 
> We pay $44.99 for 10Mbps downstream and 768Kbps upstream. We are more of a leech household LOL, so no real need for massive upload speed. They have another tier above us thats 20Mbs downstream and 1.5Mbps upstream, but they also want $59.99 for that.


Why should a discount on internet service when bundled with TV service be illegal? What's next? I get a discount on D* because I bundle it with my phone service. I guess that discount would be illegal in CA.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

MountainMan10 said:


> Why should a discount on internet service when bundled with TV service be illegal? What's next? I get a discount on D* because I bundle it with my phone service. I guess that discount would be illegal in CA.


Cuz you are essentially forcing people to buy your other services when they only want one thing by making them pay through the nose for it.

Cox also worded it in a very specific way to make it even worse.

"Internet Access is $44.99 for everybody, but if you choose to get your TV somewhere else, we're gonna tack on another $10 per month".

That kind of business is and should be illegal.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Cuz you are essentially forcing people to buy your other services when they only want one thing by making them pay through the nose for it.
> 
> Cox also worded it in a very specific way to make it even worse.
> 
> ...


that $10 may be a line fee that is the just the same price a very basic cable.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

The bottom line is that many cable services are essentially MONOPOLIES in many areas depending on access to other service delievery methods...when these opportunistic greed-mongers see the chance to suck more green blood they do it. Nobody is saying they shouldn't make a good profit, it just seems to be the case that they are going for the last dime.


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## jimmerz (Jan 26, 2010)

Speaking just from the Pittsburgh area...I have had both Comcast and FIOS. (Currently have Armstrong, no other options where I live)

They each had positives and negatives. 

Comcast was easily accessible to both call and go to a local office to trade equip.

Verizon was a PITA, I spent HOURS on hold only to get shuffled all over the country before someone was able to help me. (Biggest pet peeve)

Comcast had a MUCH better On demand library than FIOS.

I think the internet speeds, for what I used them for were equivalent.

Picture quality goes to FIOS. I hated that I had to pay extra for a sports package just to get the NFL network with FIOS, and I was unable to get a State channel PCN which shows all the State high school championship games throughout the year. (I'm sure I will not get this channel with Direct TV either?).


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