# R15 overheating



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Carl, when you rewired your fans, did you happen to note the manufacturer? I'm looking at replacing mine, but I'd like to know what CFM the one that's in there is rated for. I've got recordings going all evening, and can check tomorrow. But, if you already know... Coolerguys.com has 9 different models of 60mm fans. Looks like they're all 3 pin connectors. Might get lucky and just be able to plug it in. If that doesn't work, I'd probably hard wire it as you've done.

P.S. Thought a seperate thread for heat issues might be warranted.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I didn't really pay attention to who made it, I just checked the label to make sure it was 12 volt as opposed to 120ac. It is a 3-wire, but I only used 2, black as ground and red as hot. Fan works fine and exhausts the air (airflow is outward). Sure does make a difference in how hot/cool the unit runs.

For others who may not have read my post in the other thread, I used a hard drive power Y cable to give me an open connector with 12 volts on it (black is ground, yellow is 12 volts). I unplugged the fan from the motherboard and used two short (insulated) jumpers to jumper between the open connector on the Y cable and the fan connector. Black to black, yellow 12V to fan red. Fan now runs continuously and it keeps the inside of the R15 about 15 degrees cooler than it was before. Also, previously, if I pulled the cover and touched either the hard drive or one of the power supply heat sinks, they were too hot. I could not hold a finger or hand on them. With the fan running continuously, I pull the cover and both hard drive and heatsinks are cool to the touch. Huge difference. 

Carl


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## jcfolk (Jun 16, 2006)

carl6 said:


> <snip>
> 
> Fan now runs continuously.....
> 
> ...


Interesting. I've noticed on my R-15s that the fans have always run continuously. ???


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

jcfolk said:


> Interesting. I've noticed on my R-15s that the fans have always run continuously. ???


Yeah that's a concern of mine. How long will they last if they're on 24/7. I wonder what the MTBF is. I suspect they sacrificed air flow for noise. If I can improve from 12 CFM to 18 or 24, they shouldn't have to run as much. And I'd accept more noise if never locked again.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

For anyone who cares, the fan is a Nidec TA225DC, model H35466-58. .05 Amp.

I searched and couldn't find that model. I found other TA225DC's stating air flow anywhere between 10 and 18 CFM.

I think I'll order a 24 CFM to replace mine. Worth a shot for $5 or $6.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Yeah that's a concern of mine. How long will they last if they're on 24/7.


I thought that the fans do run constantly. 

I believe that the R15, like the Tivo units, has a temperature controlled variable speed fan running constantly. Normally, the temperature is low enough inside of the case that the voltage supplied to the fan is reduced. This would cause the fan to run slower making less noise.

When you reboot these machines, you should hear the fan rev up to full speed until the fan driver kicks in to start regulating the fan speed.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I do not know what the design of the R15 fan is, but I do know that on both of my R15-500's (manufactured last July) that the fans did not run most of the time. They did, as you note, start on power up and run for about 15 seconds, then stop. 

One of my two R15's failed - the symptom being the unit would just stop working - totally frozen with the power light off and the record light on, and the fan running. It would not respond to either remote commands or to front panel commands other than a red button reset. When reset, it might or might not fully restart. If unplugged from power for any length of time (so it could cool down), it would restart and work properly for a short period of time, then fail again. I moved the unit to a different room for testing, and took the cover off. I could not get it to fail. I put the cover back on, and within an hour it failed again. That got me started on the heat possibility.

I specifically monitored the fan, and it did not run, at any speed, prior to failure (except briefly during initial start up). When the unit failed, the fan did turn on and ran continuously. However, once the R15 went into this failure mode, no matter how cool it subsequently became, it would not recover on it's own without a user implemented reset. It would just sit there locked up with the fan running.

So, I made the modification I described in an earlier post to make the fan run continuously, put the cover back on and put the unit back in it's original location. It has run perfectly ever since.

The R15 that failed was located on the top of an open unit, fully in the open with free air movement all the way around it. It was sitting on a shelf, not on another piece of equipment, so there was no external heat rising past it.

Carl


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

pentium101 said:


> I thought that the fans do run constantly.
> 
> I believe that the R15, like the Tivo units, has a temperature controlled variable speed fan running constantly. Normally, the temperature is low enough inside of the case that the voltage supplied to the fan is reduced. This would cause the fan to run slower making less noise.
> 
> When you reboot these machines, you should hear the fan rev up to full speed until the fan driver kicks in to start regulating the fan speed.


If they're suposed to run constantly they don't (at least not for everyone).

I also suspect temp control, but as an on/off, not for variable speed.


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

That is some very good info Carl.
I think anyone that is having frequent lockups should pull the cover off for a while and see if that helps. It's an easy way to pinpoint a possible problem.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

qwerty said:


> If they're suposed to run constantly they don't (at least not for everyone).
> 
> I also suspect temp control, but as an on/off, not for variable speed.


That would be another possibility of fan control.

I had thought of that after I had posted.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I've checked mine a half dozen times over the last 24 hours. It seems to stay between 50 - 53C. That's pretty hot. We'll see what happens when I put a 23CFM fan in when it gets here Friday.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

qwerty said:


> I've checked mine a half dozen times over the last 24 hours. It seems to stay between 50 - 53C. That's pretty hot. We'll see what happens when I put a 23CFM fan in when it gets here Friday.


We don't know (but the CSRs might by now) the temperature range the R15 is most stable at. I doubt that 50-53 would be a problem though, I would be more worried when it hit 80.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

jonaswan2 said:


> We don't know (but the CSRs might by now) the temperature range the R15 is most stable at. I doubt that 50-53 would be a problem though, I would be more worried when it hit 80.


Yeah, I'm with you that 80C would be a problem, but 50C is already over 120 F. Others are reporting 40's, and Carl6 said he's getting 37C with the fans hardwired on all the time.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Mine's been running at 51.


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## ericm31 (Dec 30, 2005)

How do you find the Temp?


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

ericm31 said:


> How do you find the Temp?


You have to have the new software version, 10C8.

I think it's Settings/Setup/Sytstem Information (don't forget to hit select) then scroll down.


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## troop72 (Aug 23, 2006)

No wiring, no soldering, no jumpers  
(No slicing, no dicing, just _LOOK_ at that tomato!)

http://www.mdmm.com/spec.php?productid=81

I got one at CompUSA but there are other sources...


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Yeah, I'm with you that 80C would be a problem, but 50C is already over 120 F. Others are reporting 40's, and Carl6 said he's getting 37C with the fans hardwired on all the time.


500 models run in the 50's and the 300 models run in the 40's

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=63077&highlight=R15+temps


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

I used that 3 pin power adapter to make the stock fan run continuously on my R15-500. It dropped the temp from 52C to 36C. Not bad for about 5 minutes and the stock fan is extremely quiet.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

120-150 F is nothing, body temperature is 98F. Ever check the CPU in the PC or a high end graphics card ? 150F is nothing in electronics.

The highest mine has been was 54C and I am sure the fan will turn on around there.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

cybok0 said:


> 500 models run in the 50's and the 300 models run in the 40's
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=63077&highlight=R15+temps




I'm not sure what you getting at. The statement you quoted was from early July, before we did the poll and found out the temp each model runs at. And, it turned out to be accurate.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Bobman said:


> 120-150 F is nothing, body temperature is 98F. Ever check the CPU in the PC or a high end graphics card ? 150F is nothing in electronics.
> 
> The highest mine has been was 54C and I am sure the fan will turn on around there.


Well, that's not the CPU temp in the R15. By comparison, my PC's box temp is ~31 C. Just my experience that after I hard wired my fan and the temps dropped from the mid 50's to mid 40's that all my lockups stopped.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I've asked this before, but no one answered. Is the CPU in the R15 supposed to have a heatsink?


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

R15-300 here, everytime I've checked the temperature per the Info screen, it's always been 46C.


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

Bobman said:


> 120-150 F is nothing, body temperature is 98F. Ever check the CPU in the PC or a high end graphics card ? 150F is nothing in electronics.


From the Seagate website: "The operating temperature range for most Seagate hard drives is 5 to 50 degrees Celsius (122 deg F). With our newer model drives the maximum temperature is now at 60 degrees Celsius (140 deg F)."



skaeight said:


> I've asked this before, but no one answered. Is the CPU in the R15 supposed to have a heatsink?


There's no heatsink on either the R15-500 or the R15-300.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Halo said:


> From the Seagate website: "The operating temperature range for most Seagate hard drives is 5 to 50 degrees Celsius (122 deg F). With our newer model drives the maximum temperature is now at 60 degrees Celsius (140 deg F)."


I've been asked not to reveal my source, but I've been told the R15 gets it's temp reading from the hard drive.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Halo said:


> There's no heatsink on either the R15-500 or the R15-300.


Not on the CPU, but there are heatsinks on a couple of the dc voltage regulators in the power supply of the R15-500.

Carl


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

qwerty said:


> I've been asked not to reveal my source, but I've been told the R15 gets it's temp reading from the hard drive.


This could easily be done when S.M.A.R.T. is recognized and enabled through the BIOS.


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