# can I have two genies?



## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

from what I am reading here .. the mini genies STINK>. so can you have two full genies on your system.? my wife wants the added recording for the olympics.. or can you change the hard drive on your genie to make it bigger?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

bjlc said:


> from what I am reading here .. the mini genies STINK>. so can you have two full genies on your system.? my wife wants the added recording for the olympics.. or can you change the hard drive on your genie to make it bigger?


Currently DIRECTV allows one Genie per account. You can use a larger external hard drive for more recording.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

The mini's in no way "stink". And as MysterMan says, you're only allowed one Genie per account.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> The mini's in no way "stink". And as MysterMan says, you're only allowed one Genie per account.


No, the minis don't "stink".
But adding a mini gains you nothing in terms of tuners or disk space since it uses these from the Genie'
No, you can only activate one Genie. But many people have added external drives.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Although you can only have one Genie, there is nothing stopping you from adding additional HD DVR's. If you need additional tuners for recording, this is the way to go. If you just need additional storage space, then adding an external e-SATA hard drive to your DVR is a better move. I don't know how many channels will be showing Olympic events simultaneously this year. So, I don't know if 5 tuners is enough for recording everything or not.

Keep in mind, that adding an external hard drive doesn't add space on top of the internal drive, it gets used *instead of* the internal drive. So, any recordings that are already on the hard drive will not be viewable while the external drive is connected.

External drives can also be added to HD DVR's. HD DVR's have a hard drive limit of 2TB. Genies don't appear to have a max size limit.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Bill Broderick said:


> Although you can only have one Genie, there is nothing stopping you from adding additional HD DVR's. If you need additional tuners for recording, this is the way to go. If you just need additional storage space, then adding an external e-SATA hard drive to your DVR is a better move. I don't know how many channels will be showing Olympic events simultaneously this year. So, I don't know if 5 tuners is enough for recording everything or not.


Depends on what sports someone is interested in:

NBC: Total of 260 hours (and this is generally where the big gold medal matches go etc)
NBCSN: 330 hours
Golf Channel (Golf only of course): 115 hours
Bravo (Tennis): 95 hours
CNBC: 42 hours
MSNBC: 78 hours
USA: 110 hours
Then there's the 4K (downconverted and delayed) channel and Spanish language.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> But adding a mini gains you nothing in terms of tuners or disk space since it uses these from the Genie'


Unless you have a 4k TV and an HR54, then a mini gives you live 4k TV.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

There a many on here that have two activated genies that were part of a test program, I think. I believe that because there are so few that will want 2 genies that they do not see a priority of develop software that would allow two genies on a wireless network. It seems a wireless client would be confused when trying to decide which server to connect to. I am very sure that those with 2 genies have coax networks at this time. I have not heard any reported problems with 2 genies on a wired network. Since wireless seems to be the big push, solving the 2 genie problem for just a few is not worth the effort, at least at this time.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't know about many, I've only heard of a couple talk about having multiple Genies. Though there may be more that don't talk about it since they are probably under an NDA.

As far as I know it causes issues with both wired and wireless clients, since the clients have to pick one or the other genie to pull their tuners, etc from. That has to happen whether the mini is wireless or wired. Not to mention I bet it gets confusing when you try to watch recorded material. Say Mini A, B, C are attached to Genie 1, and Mini X, Y, Z are attached to Genie 2. What happens when both Mini A and B try to watch a recording off of Genie 2? Same thing with Mini Y and Z trying to watch recordings off of Genie 1. In other words can a Genie stream more than one recording at a time to another Genie? I don't know. If it doesn't work then good luck trying to explain to a common customer why they can't do it.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> There a many on here that have two activated genies that were part of a test program, I think. I believe that because there are so few that will want 2 genies that they do not see a priority of develop software that would allow two genies on a wireless network. It seems a wireless client would be confused when trying to decide which server to connect to. I am very sure that those with 2 genies have coax networks at this time. I have not heard any reported problems with 2 genies on a wired network. Since wireless seems to be the big push, solving the 2 genie problem for just a few is not worth the effort, at least at this time.


There's also the hardware component, most setups would require an installer to swap out the LNB. I'd think the vast majority of systems would still max out at 8 tuners.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

The Key word in this whole thread is Avg user (customer) A vast numbe of D* customers don't understand when it's Raining outside "Why" they lose signal to turn 2 genies loose on the general public per account would be asking for unlimited service calls - and NO company wants that.

I would suggest to the op if he has minis to call get those replaced with HDDVR's that will give added recording with little effort and the monthlt cost per unit will be the same.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

so what boxes should I be asking for? I am listening and learning.. thanks for all the good info so far..


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

What do you have now?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

bjlc said:


> so what boxes should I be asking for? I am listening and learning.. thanks for all the good info so far..


The only HDDVR being Supplied Now are the Hr24


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

bjlc said:


> so what boxes should I be asking for? I am listening and learning.. thanks for all the good info so far..


By all means get a Genie (one). Then consider either regular receivers, or regular DVRs to supplement that. Each additional unit (receiver, DVR, or mini client) costs the same per month. All are able to watch recordings made on any other DVR or Genie in your system. However, a regular DVR can only schedule a recording on itself (not on the Genie).

So, you can have a Genie (5 tuners, one TV served)
Plus a regular DVR (2 more tuners, one TV served)
plus a regular receiver (1 tuner, no recording by itself but can schedule recordings on any Genie/DVR on the system), one TV served
plus a mini client (no tuners, uses a Genie tuner), can schedule recordings on the Genie, can watch any recording from any DVR/Genie, one TV served
Or any combination of the above so long as there is only one Genie.

What mix/combination you choose needs to work for you, but you have an almost unlimited range of options depending on how many simultaneous recordings you want to do, plus how many simultaneous live viewings you want to do. A Genie can serve three external units at a time. Those can be mini clients, receivers, or other DVRs. A DVR can serve one external unit at a time. That can be a receiver, a Genie, another DVR, or a client.

When a Genie is serving an external unit (another receiver, DVR, or client), that uses up one of the three server capabilities. A client is using that server stream any time it is in use (whether watching a recording, or a live channel).

When a Genie is serving a client with live TV, that uses one of the 5 tuners in the Genie. If you have the Genie watching something live, and three clients watching something live, you only have one tuner left for recording.

Hopefully this helps explain how it all works, and helps you decide what you want your system to look like.

I was involved in testing, and have more than one Genie. The limitation has nothing to do with wireless, but it does make using clients difficult at best and is not a good solution for the average customer.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Not sure why a cleint would be confused. I have an HR54, 1 clent and 3 HR24s. (All wired) When I call up the list on the client the programming from the HR54 and all HR24 are in the list. I would think that if another genie is attached to the network, its programming would also be included in a clients list.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Bill Broderick said:


> Genies don't appear to have a max size limit.


really? then why RunnerFL did many test to find it ?!
surprisingly, he did post his finding here a few times


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> Not sure why a cleint would be confused. I have an HR54, 1 clent and 3 HR24s. (All wired) When I call up the list on the client the programming from the HR54 and all HR24 are in the list. I would think that if another genie is attached to the network, its programming would also be included in a clients list.


The client is connected to a specific genie. With more than one genie, clients don't always know which genie they should be connected to. Start up can be a real mess.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

P Smith said:


> really? then why RunnerFL did many test to find it ?!
> surprisingly, he did post his finding here a few times


HR34-54 limit or H44 limit? Big difference.

At least for a HR model, I know he said he tested up to 12TB. That doesn't mean that's the limit of the DVR. He didn't say that he then tried 16TB and it didn't work. I'm not sure what the file system they use is, but it is possible 16tb is the max unless they moved to 64 bit with ext4.

Honestly, in the current model of how the drives are tied to the receiver, I don't see a lot of benefit to the huge setups. The issues are more minimized with external drives and power supplies, but still, if you need a DVR replacement either due to failure or getting 4K and moving from a 44 to a 54, that's potentially a lot of programming that is still gone.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> HR34-54 limit or H44 limit? Big difference.
> 
> At least for a HR model, I know he said he tested up to 12TB. That doesn't mean that's the limit of the DVR. He didn't say that he then tried 16TB and it didn't work. I'm not sure what the file system they use is, but it is possible 16tb is the max unless they moved to 64 bit with ext4.
> 
> Honestly, in the current model of how the drives are tied to the receiver, I don't see a lot of benefit to the huge setups. The issues are more minimized with external drives and power supplies, but still, if you need a DVR replacement either due to failure or getting 4K and moving from a 44 to a 54, that's potentially a lot of programming that is still gone.


Yup, I have a 3TB drive in my 44 and it's never been close to full. I can't see much use for a larger internal drive and, as you said, the loss of a drive as large as 12 TBs (if it was even half full) would be terrible.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> The client is connected to a specific genie. With more than one genie, clients don't always know which genie they should be connected to. Start up can be a real mess.


Bingo... That and there's no way for DirecTV to say Genie A can have 1 client while Genie B has 0. If you had 2 Genies and your account was set for 1 client you could actually setup 2 clients, 1 to each Genie. DirecTV isn't in the business of giving away free stuff so they don't want to give the customers the ability to do that.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Genies don't appear to have a max size limit.


Incorrect, 16TB. Also the limit on an H44 is 1TB. Yes, Genies do have a limit.

Also consider the only way to get to 16TB is RAID and currently the HR54's do not play with RAID other than RAID1. Since there are no 16TB drives it's not possible to have a 16TB RAID1 array.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> HR34-54 limit or H44 limit? Big difference.
> 
> At least for a HR model, I know he said he tested up to 12TB. That doesn't mean that's the limit of the DVR. He didn't say that he then tried 16TB and it didn't work.


Look for my posts. I did in fact say I tested 16TB and it worked. It was anything over 16TB that I tested that didn't work.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> Yup, I have a 3TB drive in my 44 and it's never been close to full. I can't see much use for a larger internal drive and, as you said, the loss of a drive as large as 12 TBs (if it was even half full) would be terrible.
> 
> Rich


Well the only way to get to 12TB would be RAID and I'd go with RAID5 in that case. You have better odds of winning the Power Ball than you do losing a 12TB RAID5 array.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Look for my posts. I did in fact say I tested 16TB and it worked. It was anything over 16TB that I tested that didn't work.


Sorry, I saw a post referencing 12TB but didn't see the others.

Though I still really see it less as a practical limit. To me, there are larger concerns when you get to that type of size.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Sorry, I saw a post referencing 12TB but didn't see the others.
> 
> Though I still really see it less as a practical limit. To me, there are larger concerns when you get to that type of size.


Yeah, definitely practical. Not sure what concerns you have with larger sizes though. In actuality larger sizes are safer because you have RAID.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, definitely practical. Not sure what concerns you have with larger sizes though. In actuality larger sizes are safer because you have RAID.


For me it's just a lot more to lose if for whatever reason you have to swap out the DVR itself (unless all of it is off an AM21). Of course the hard drive is one of the largest points of failure, but it still should be considered.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> For me it's just a lot more to lose if for whatever reason you have to swap out the DVR itself (unless all of it is off an AM21). Of course the hard drive is one of the largest points of failure, but it still should be considered.


If you have to swap out the DVR, yes. But that's the only time you'd lose your recordings.

Again, if you use RAID (which you'd have to in order to have that amount of space) the odds of you losing your data are SUPER high. I've lost drives in RAID arrays before, too many to count, but never any data.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> If you have to swap out the DVR, yes. But that's the only time you'd lose your recordings.
> 
> Again, if you use RAID (which you'd have to in order to have that amount of space) the odds of you losing your data are SUPER high. I've lost drives in RAID arrays before, too many to count, but never any data.


I think that you meant to write "if you use RAID (which you'd have to in order to have that amount of space) the odds of you losing your data are SUPER low", not super high, didn't you?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> I think that you meant to write "if you use RAID (which you'd have to in order to have that amount of space) the odds of you losing your data are SUPER low", not super high, didn't you?


Nope, high as in astronomical.....


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Nope, high as in astronomical.....


then you mean the odds against losing data are high. Saying the that odds of losing data are high means that it it likely to happen.

I know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to make sure that people who read this in the future don't think that you're saying the opposite of what you really mean.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> then you mean the odds against losing data are high. Saying the that odds of losing data are high means that it it likely to happen.
> 
> I know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to make sure that people who read this in the future don't think that you're saying the opposite of what you really mean.


Pick on someone else. You know what I meant.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Pick on someone else. You know what I meant.


I wasn't trying to pick on you. I do know what you meant. I was trying to make sure that everyone else knows what you meant, as well.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Bill Broderick said:


> then you mean the odds against losing data are high. Saying the that odds of losing data are high means that it it likely to happen.
> 
> I know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to make sure that people who read this in the future don't think that you're saying the opposite of what you really mean.


I believe what RunnerFL said was correct grammatically speaking, but it is an area where confusion can easily occur.

Myself, I'd probably say the odds are unlikely but he's not wrong.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

I stand corrected (for the second time in this thread). I was confusing "odds" with "chances".

"Low odds" means something is likely, and "high odds" means something is unlikely, but many people get the two confused.
High odds would be something like 42-to-1. You'd be happy if these were the odds on your horse that wins at the track because you'd win a lot of money, but these aren't the odds you'd want if you need something to happen. It's a long shot.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> then you mean the odds against losing data are high. Saying the that odds of losing data are high means that it it likely to happen.
> 
> I know what you're trying to say. I'm trying to make sure that people who read this in the future don't think that you're saying the opposite of what you really mean.


Anyone who can read English knows what I am saying.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> I stand corrected (for the second time in this thread). I was confusing "odds" with "chances".
> 
> "Low odds" means something is likely, and "high odds" means something is unlikely, but many people get the two confused.
> High odds would be something like 42-to-1. You'd be happy if these were the odds on your horse that wins at the track because you'd win a lot of money, but these aren't the odds you'd want if you need something to happen. It's a long shot.


Exactly!


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Incorrect, 16TB. Also the limit on an H44 is 1TB.


I think you left a digit off the HR44 limit?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

trh said:


> I think you left a digit off the HR44 limit?


No, that's an H44, not an HR44. H44 is definitely limited to 1TB.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> No, that's an H44, not an HR44. H44 is definitely limited to 1TB.


Correct. There is an H44 which can have a hard drive added to it to make it a fully functioning Genie, and it is limited to (a very specific) 1TB hard drive.
There is also an HR44, which has a built in hard drive, and it can be expanded with a larger (external) drive.
Two different units entirely.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

so I need to ask for another DVR.. is that correct? but that's not a mini genie.. I will see what happens.. I may not have time to do this this week.. I guess that I have been waiting for some other stuff to happen.. I kinda have some good will credits with D* to use.. and have been saving them for ST instead.. I have no contract agreement with D* at this time and have been with them 14 years.. and pay each month almost always on the first of the month.. ( for the past 3 years at least).. I haven't had a upgrade for well over two years..in fact one of my hd boxes must be close to 6 years old.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

if I put an external hard drive on this genie, you can only see, one or the other hard drives is that what I am reading ? so you can only see either the main hard drive or the external? please don't rip me for not knowing .. thats why I am coming here to ask.. or can you see everything on both drives? and no we are not going to tape all of the Olympics.. and I doubt that we will keep any in the long run.. but we need the space to tape what we want to see.. or record if that's the correct term..


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

The external replaces the internal, it does not add to it.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

can you move stuff from one to the other on the hard drives?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

No, you can't move the shows. But you also don't lose what is on the internal drive. Just unplug the external drive, restart the DVR and it will go back to the internal drive and all the shows that previously recorded.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bjlc said:


> can you move stuff from one to the other on the hard drives?


you could make a copy of whole drive [with extension in its size) - read detailed threads about the process here


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

here . where? there was no link.. or am I missing something..


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

bjlc said:


> here . where? there was no link.. or am I missing something..


He's just meaning on the site, and to search for it.

Though you really can't do it without removing the hard drive, which shouldn't be done with leased equipment, against the terms of service.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

trh said:


> I think you left a digit off the HR44 limit?


Uh, no. That's the H44 limit.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

I have a 6TB in an HR54. 7 months and still 90% free! And that's with a lot of OTA shows. Raid will be more reliable but if the Genie fails and needs to be swapped you lose everything on the raid anyway.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

mgavs said:


> I have a 6TB in an HR54. 7 months and still 90% free! And that's with a lot of OTA shows. Raid will be more reliable but if the Genie fails and needs to be swapped you lose everything on the raid anyway.


Well, you wouldn't lose anything recorded OTA from the AM21. Those would still work. And of course series links, history etc.

Anything recorded from sat, that you'd lose access to.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> Well, you wouldn't lose anything recorded OTA from the AM21. Those would still work. And of course series links, history etc.
> 
> *Anything recorded from sat, that you'd lose access to.*


actually, to play functions, not to access;
you can see events, read descriptions ...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

P Smith said:


> actually, to play functions, not to access;
> you can see events, read descriptions ...


I think dpeters11 description is accurate. If I can't play a show, I don't have access to it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Isn't his description too restrictive to be accurate ?


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I wonder if they go with that headless gateway would the still let you have the older Genie? What if the headless gateway has all new software that would allow for that? That would be cool if that headless gateway went down you could still use the older Genie separately.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Isn't his description too restrictive to be accurate ?


Nope.

He said 'anything *recorded *from the sat, you lose access to'. You're talking about a listing of shows on your device and a snippet of information about the show. Two things that I don't consider as being recorded material.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder if they go with that headless gateway would the still let you have the older Genie? What if the headless gateway has all new software that would allow for that? That would be cool if that headless gateway went down you could still use the older Genie separately.


While there's no way to know for sure, whether the new hardware is headless or not it will use RVU to communicate with clients. Assuming they want to phase out traditional DVRs and receivers and go entirely client/server, they will have to support having more than one such server in a home/business and write its software accordingly.

That doesn't mean that a Genie, which also uses RVU to communicate with clients, would play well in such an environment, so it is quite possible they might require you to trade in your Genie to upgrade to the new gear if they don't want to bother updating the Genie's software to handle that situation. Heck, it is possible they might require you to swap out all your H/HR gear....perhaps not likely but certainly possible.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> While there's no way to know for sure, whether the new hardware is headless or not it will use RVU to communicate with clients. Assuming they want to phase out traditional DVRs and receivers and go entirely client/server, they will have to support having more than one such server in a home/business and write its software accordingly.
> 
> That doesn't mean that a Genie, which also uses RVU to communicate with clients, would play well in such an environment, so it is quite possible they might require you to trade in your Genie to upgrade to the new gear if they don't want to bother updating the Genie's software to handle that situation. Heck, it is possible they might require you to swap out all your H/HR gear....perhaps not likely but certainly possible.


You don't think they might go with something different than RVU? I saw their is another form out their called Vidipath. That slide AT&T showed looked like they were going headless. Unless they would change their mind and stick with the current server/client model?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Isn't his description too restrictive to be accurate ?


Not at all.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

My personal thought is that most people consider not being able to play a recording as not being able to access it. 

I can look at the file properties of an encrypted file, but if I don't have the password, I'm not accessing it.

Besides, you can't play them back because the encryption is tied to the access card.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> You don't think they might go with something different than RVU? I saw their is another form out their called Vidipath. That slide AT&T showed looked like they were going headless. Unless they would change their mind and stick with the current server/client model?


Vidipath was created by the same company that created RVU, and is built from all the same software. They are almost certainly very similar, maybe differing only in name. The only reason to switch to Vidipath would be if someone other than Directv/AT&T was going to use that standard. Otherwise they would simply trade one Directv-only "standard" for another, and it is hard to see a benefit to doing so.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> While there's no way to know for sure, whether the new hardware is headless or not it will use RVU to communicate with clients. Assuming they want to phase out traditional DVRs and receivers and go entirely client/server, they will have to support having more than one such server in a home/business and write its software accordingly.
> 
> That doesn't mean that a Genie, which also uses RVU to communicate with clients, would play well in such an environment, so it is quite possible they might require you to trade in your Genie to upgrade to the new gear if they don't want to bother updating the Genie's software to handle that situation. Heck, it is possible they might require you to swap out all your H/HR gear....perhaps not likely but certainly possible.


Whatever the next generation is I hope they don't sacrifice one ounce of ability or feature on a new platform just to keep anything from the current stuff running and integrated The current stuff.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Whatever the next generation is I hope they don't sacrifice one ounce of ability or feature on a new platform just to keep anything from the current stuff running and integrated The current stuff.


The biggest factor that would probably keep them from saying "if you upgrade to the new stuff you have to trade in all your old hardware" is that Directv has a lot of investment in that old hardware. Well, maybe not the pre-Genie receivers/DVRs since I doubt they've been manufacturing new HR24s/H25s for few years, so by the time the new stuff is out that old stuff should be fully depreciated on their books.

Not so with the Genie; they'd have to write off a huge amount of value in HR44 & HR54 that wouldn't have their full five years of depreciation yet, or find somewhere else to use them (Directv LA?)


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> The biggest factor that would probably keep them from saying "if you upgrade to the new stuff you have to trade in all your old hardware" is that Directv has a lot of investment in that old hardware. Well, maybe not the pre-Genie receivers/DVRs since I doubt they've been manufacturing new HR24s/H25s for few years, so by the time the new stuff is out that old stuff should be fully depreciated on their books.
> 
> Not so with the Genie; they'd have to write off a huge amount of value in HR44 & HR54 that wouldn't have their full five years of depreciation yet, or find somewhere else to use them (Directv LA?)


So you are saying they would phase out the HR-24, H-24, and H-25 and replace them with clients and not refurbish them? Then keep making the HR-34, HR-44 and HR-54 for awhile and they would work separately with the new system but also connect with the new system?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> So you are saying they would phase out the HR-24, H-24, and H-25 and replace them with clients and not refurbish them? Then keep making the HR-34, HR-44 and HR-54 for awhile and they would work separately with the new system but also connect with the new system?


That was kind of the thought with the H44.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> The biggest factor that would probably keep them from saying "if you upgrade to the new stuff you have to trade in all your old hardware" is that Directv has a lot of investment in that old hardware. Well, maybe not the pre-Genie receivers/DVRs since I doubt they've been manufacturing new HR24s/H25s for few years, so by the time the new stuff is out that old stuff should be fully depreciated on their books.
> 
> Not so with the Genie; they'd have to write off a huge amount of value in HR44 & HR54 that wouldn't have their full five years of depreciation yet, or find somewhere else to use them (Directv LA?)


Eh maybe. Maybe not. Some people don't like upgrading at all... there is no reason they couldn't say you can keep a genie and have whatever is new but just know they won't work together...


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

inkahauts said:


> Eh maybe. Maybe not. Some people don't like upgrading at all... there is no reason they couldn't say you can keep a genie and have whatever is new but just know they won't work together...


They have cloud guides that work on both new and older boxes. I think Charter's Spectrum Guide is designed to work like that.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> So you are saying they would phase out the HR-24, H-24, and H-25 and replace them with clients and not refurbish them? Then keep making the HR-34, HR-44 and HR-54 for awhile and they would work separately with the new system but also connect with the new system?


I'm not saying they will do anything like that because I have no idea what their plans are. It would make things simpler if they didn't have to worry about people having other equipment, but there are financial considerations that make it IMHO unlikely Directv would do that, at least not for a while.

I could easily see them only letting new customers after a certain date use the new stuff, and not permitting them to activate the older H/HR/Genie gear on their accounts. Similar to how customers that have signed up within the last two years can't activate a SD receiver on their account.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Actually because of how their stuff is setup they could allow two different platforms on one persons home and not have them interact but both work just fine...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Actually because of how their stuff is setup they could allow two different platforms on one persons home and not have them interact but both work just fine...


Exactly. Heck, it was even possible for a non-SWM compatible receiver to be used in a SWM setup. Now, it wasn't supported in terms of installers doing it, but was technically possible.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Actually because of how their stuff is setup they could allow two different platforms on one persons home and not have them interact but both work just fine...


Sure, but as with non-SWM receivers in a SWM setup what is possible to do and what Directv lets their installers install may be two different things.

They'd gain a lot of flexibility if the new gateways had two coax ports. One for SWM/DECA that connects to the dish and all the 'legacy' SWM equipment, and the other DECA only that connects to its clients. I have no idea if they'll do that, but there are several advantages to doing this that I can see...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I kind of expect the next setup to use moca2 and if they can fit that and the regular swim channels on the same coax they will stick with one convention. Otherwise you'd be looking at two coaxes to one room somewhere... 

It will be interesting to see when something finally does hit...


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

inkahauts said:


> I kind of expect the next setup to use moca2 and if they can fit that and the regular swim channels on the same coax they will stick with one convention. Otherwise you'd be looking at two coaxes to one room somewhere...
> 
> It will be interesting to see when something finally does hit...


Some in other forums say its going to shaped like an RG and at first it would be without the DSL Modem and Router built in then later on by 2019 they would have everything in an all in one unit still shaped like an RG. I sometimes think an all in one unit would be cool however, what happens if it breaks then you couldn't watch TV or use the internet.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I kind of expect the next setup to use moca2 and if they can fit that and the regular swim channels on the same coax they will stick with one convention. Otherwise you'd be looking at two coaxes to one room somewhere...
> 
> It will be interesting to see when something finally does hit...


MoCA 2.0 is backwards compatible and can interoperate with MoCA 1.1 devices, the 2.0 nodes will communicate at full speed with each other and simultaneously communicate with 1.1 nodes at reduced speed. 2.0 uses the same frequency ranges (slightly enlarged) that 1.1 does so existing gear like green label splitters and BSFs won't need to be replaced.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> MoCA 2.0 is backwards compatible and can interoperate with MoCA 1.1 devices, the 2.0 nodes will communicate at full speed with each other and simultaneously communicate with 1.1 nodes at reduced speed. 2.0 uses the same frequency ranges (slightly enlarged) that 1.1 does so existing gear like green label splitters and BSFs won't need to be replaced.


Could they add Ethernet to the clients in the next system? They 4k Joey's have both Moca and Ethernet.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Could they? Of course. Will they? Doubtful. Or let me say both would be doubtful. One or the other but there is no financial incentive to support both.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

carl6 said:


> Could they? Of course. Will they? Doubtful. Or let me say both would be doubtful. One or the other but there is no financial incentive to support both.


Well if they do an all in headless gateway that has the modem and four port router in it wouldn't that be good to have both Ethernet and Moca in the next client box? That way you could put the gateway next to the client box in a media cabinet and hook those together using Ethernet instead of Moca. Or if a person had a structured wiring would using Ethernet be faster than using Moca? They could have that all in gateway installed in the structured wiring cabinet then use the Ethernet port of the next client connected to an Ethernet outlet if the room didn't have a coax outlet.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I think the reason Directv did not add ethernet to the clients is because they want the networking to run over coax, so there's a clear line between "stuff that Directv supports and will fix if broken" and "stuff the homeowner is responsible for". Sure, they could add an ethernet port to it for very little cost, but what if you have problems because your network is overloaded, or you have bad cat5 cables, or the switch it is connected to is flaky? Directv doesn't want to get into the business of troubleshooting home networks, so it is easier to not include ethernet and thus avoid the question altogether. That's also why they use their own wireless network for the wireless clients via the wireless CCK instead of relying on the existing wireless network most customers will already have.

Still, it would be nice if they a port that was disabled, and had a menu option in the settings to enable it, accompanied by a warning that basically says "you're on your own, don't call Directv for support with problems that occur from using ethernet but not when using coax for networking".


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> I think the reason Directv did not add ethernet to the clients is because they want the networking to run over coax, so there's a clear line between "stuff that Directv supports and will fix if broken" and "stuff the homeowner is responsible for". Sure, they could add an ethernet port to it for very little cost, but what if you have problems because your network is overloaded, or you have bad cat5 cables, or the switch it is connected to is flaky? Directv doesn't want to get into the business of troubleshooting home networks, so it is easier to not include ethernet and thus avoid the question altogether. That's also why they use their own wireless network for the wireless clients via the wireless CCK instead of relying on the existing wireless network most customers will already have.
> 
> Still, it would be nice if they a port that was disabled, and had a menu option in the settings to enable it, accompanied by a warning that basically says "you're on your own, don't call Directv for support with problems that occur from using ethernet but not when using coax for networking".


Good points but would AT&T change DTV's policy? However that could also be why if they go headless that AT&T could keep the gateway and modem/router separate so they would just use Moca?


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

It's rapidly approaching the point that box size is related to the number of connectors on the back. Adding a RJ-45 Ethernet jack is not only redundant but a waste of space and cost.

A CCK or DECA converts to the home network at a low cost if needed.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Still, it would be nice if they a port that was disabled, and had a menu option in the settings to enable it, accompanied by a warning that basically says "you're on your own, don't call Directv for support with problems that occur from using ethernet but not when using coax for networking".


folks would still call regardless wanting DirecTV support.

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

okay so D* sent me two brand new HDVR's .. hr 24's I believe.. so How do I see or record to or from them.. the Olympics start Friday and My wife wants to record a ton of stuff.. so now I have a Genie Hr 44 and those two previously mentioned units.. Oh and btw Tech support told me to press the button on the front of the unit to record my shows.. "PRESS THE BUTTON.." and then we were told that there is No more extra space with the dvrs that I just got.. that was just about the time we hung up from "DIRECTV TECH SUPPORT..


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

bjlc said:


> okay so D* sent me two brand new HDVR's .. hr 24's I believe.. so How do I see or record to or from them.. the Olympics start Friday and My wife wants to record a ton of stuff.. so now I have a Genie Hr 44 and those two previously mentioned units.. Oh and btw Tech support told me to press the button on the front of the unit to record my shows.. "PRESS THE BUTTON.." and then we were told that there is No more extra space with the dvrs that I just got.. that was just about the time we hung up from "DIRECTV TECH SUPPORT..


you can record from to DVR to another DVR. Each show on a DVR must be set locally. Also storage space is different and separate from each unit,mit does not combine.

Make sure you have enough SWM channels to support the Genie and those two new HR24s. That is 9 channels not counting any other receiver that you may have.

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

The HR24s each come with 500GB of storage. The Genie HR44 has 1TB of storage. So you have a total of 2TB between your three DVRs. 

You can also get external ESATA drives if you want to 'replace' your internal drives. You don't actually replace them, but when you plug in an external ESATA drive, the DVR will use that drive -- it won't use the internal one as long as an external drive is plugged in. 

You and your wife need get the DIRECTV app for any smart phones or tablets you have. That way you can look at the guide and record any show to any one of your three DVRs. As peds48 mentioned, while you can watch any recorded show any any device in your home, you have to locally set the shows on the desired DVR. Using the App will allow you to sit in one location and schedule recordings to any of your devices.

Enjoy.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

To sort of combine the above replies...

Each HR24 can record only to itself. You have to set a recording on the unit you want it to record on. Ditto the Genie. However, you can watch the recordings from any unit. You will have a consolidated LIST to choose from.

If you do not have enough SWM channels, you can (must) set one of your HR24s to use only a single tuner. You do that in satellite setup. As peds noted, the Genie uses 5 tuners and the HR24s each use two tuners (unless you specify otherwise). So that's too many tuners for a standard SWM LNB (max 8). But there are some LNBs that can support 13 tuners in which case you will be okay.

To set a recording (on the local DVR), just press the R button on the remote while you are viewing it, or while it is displayed in the guide.

If you use a smart phone or tablet with the DirecTV app, you can choose which DVR to record to.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And in theory, if you chose more info on any one olympics sports program, and then chose record series, it will offer to record everything that will be on any channel for you automatically.


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## Rob Dawn (Jan 11, 2006)

Sorry to dredge up a year old thread, but searching did not give me any recent answers.

Does DirecTV/AT&T still have the 1 Genie per account limit?

I have an HR24, HR34 and a Genie Mini.
My HR24 has died and I'm wondering if they'll let me add an HR44 if I already have an HR34.

And second question: any idea if they will charge me to swap out my Genie Mini for a Wireless Genie Mini?
Thanks!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

They still have a one genie policy. 

You could probably get them to give you a genie 2 for free, with a couple minis. Use the one mini you have now, and add a wireless and an additional mini and you’d have the same total tuners, and more versatile system. Genie 2 has seven tuners. Know it is limited to 100 series though, so that also can be a problem if you record say 150 things... but it would also get rid of that poor excuse for a genie the HR34 is... you probably don’t even realize how slow and behind it is without having a newer unit.

I’d suggest doing a little research on the genie 2 to understand its differences from a genie 1. There’s some write ups here, and at iamanedgecutter.com and solid signal.

If you want to stick with what you have, I’d still insist the HR34 is bad too and have them replace all three.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

You should get your HR24 replace for $20. Maybe even free.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rob Dawn said:


> Sorry to dredge up a year old thread, but searching did not give me any recent answers.
> 
> *Does DirecTV/AT&T still have the 1 Genie per account limit?*
> 
> ...


This thread is about the question "Can I have 2 Genies?". You "can", you "may" not. D* simply does not allow it.

Rich


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## DEEPSTATE (Jul 23, 2019)

RunnerFL said:


> Bingo... That and there's no way for DirecTV to say Genie A can have 1 client while Genie B has 0. If you had 2 Genies and your account was set for 1 client you could actually setup 2 clients, 1 to each Genie. DirecTV isn't in the business of giving away free stuff so they don't want to give the customers the ability to do that.


Yeah they should jus ask Dishnetwork how they do it


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## DEEPSTATE (Jul 23, 2019)

Dishnetwork pulled way ahead after they brought in Mike White to build it up to sell. Dish did it from the beginning and simple assign each client to what dvr. So basic


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Directv does do it that way with the HS17, but for whatever reason they still only allow one per account.


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