# HD Upgrade Details from E*



## James Long

*Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
_In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._

*Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
_Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._

*First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
_The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._

*New and Existing Customers?*
_Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._

Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.

Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
_The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._

*PLEASE NOTE*
Many members have reported having a receiver lease fee on their bill while having only one receiver, contrary to the information we were provided above.


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## JohnMI

Wow. I'm either surprised or just disappointed depending on how you look at it. I can't believe that you have to turn in your 942 or 921 -- regardless of if it is leased or owned -- for the $200 rebate. That's just insane. Either of those is worth well more than $200, of course. If you own it, that "deal" simply isn't one. 

- John...


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## James Long

If one considers their 921/942 to be worth more than $200 or wants to continue using one as a second reciever they can. That's a good thing. The caveat is that the newest channels will only appear on the ViP models and resale value of the 921/942 is sure to drop when the 622 is easily available.


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## Stevious

Not a good deal. If E* had granted existing customers the ability to lease 942s, it would be a different story. We (existing customers) were given no other option than to plunk down the $600+ to own.

We can try our luck selling a crippled receiver on ebay which won't work with all Dish HD programming, or take a $400+$99 loss. Or miss out on the new and local HD channels indefinitely. My conscience won't let me sell the 942 to some poor unsuspecting sucker on ebay, so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

No matter which way fanboys slice it, we 942 owners got screwed. Big time.


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## James Long

BTW: I'm so used to the 'team' concept that I forgot to thank moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down the information I posted at the beginning of this thread.


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## Ron Barry

Oh.. Thanks Mike for doing the leg work..  Oh and Please don't shoot the messenger..


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## JohnMI

James Long said:


> If one considers their 921/942 to be worth more than $200 or wants to continue using one as a second reciever they can. That's a good thing. The caveat is that the newest channels will only appear on the ViP models and resale value of the 921/942 is sure to drop when the 622 is easily available.


True -- but we're talking as soon as April to do the upgrade/rebate, right? Most people aren't "up" on such things. At that point, most people will be much better off to EBay their 921 or 942, I think. From April through the fall, I think they will both be going for well over $200 actually.

It will indeed drop -- but I think it'll be above the rebate for a while.

In any case, it still isn't "right" -- someone leasing a unit should not be given the same amount for turning in their unit as someone that owns it...

- John...


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## normang

Many customers are not up on lots of details, on more than just Satellite hardware and service. 

Just to toss out some thoughts, Say I bought an HDTV 3-5 years ago, I spent say $3000-4000 for it, its now worth about $600 to $1000+, if I'm lucky, depending on condition and features. A number of people when they try to sell their old sets get a price shock, because they've lost far more value than they thought. 

A Computer... loses at least 20% of its value a year after it walks out a door, with rare exceptions. That loss ramps up quickly each year it ages and new models come to replace it, Mac's seem to hold their value better than PC's as I see it..

How does this relate to this?, well Most 942's are coming up to a year old, originally cost $699 if you paid that much, I got mine for less, as I suspect many did.

Based on other tech, this means that its worth about $400-500 shortly after you get it. Regardless of age.. If you trade it in for the $99, deal, you can think your losing a couple hundred, but if you've had it for at least several months and used it routinely, how much is that worth? Also most eBay auctions now are around $400, that will change quickly as the 622 ramps up. 

Face it, when you buy technology, it can be obsolete the next day, because companies will sell their current product lines at full or near full price right up to the day they announce a newer model, then discount the older models to clear them out. and if your one of those people that bought the day before for full price, you can return it and by again I guess, or if its a few weeks out and the initial return policy most places have has expired, your done. 

If your really tech savy, you can read and hear about the signs that some upgrade is coming, but you never really know until its announced or you feel that some rumor site is 100% correct and hold off and see whats coming.

Most of us here that followed things for the past year plus knew that Dish was going to release MPEG4 hardware, but elected to get a 942 anyway, because many thought it would take longer before it happened. I thought it would have been a few more months down the road.

You can continue to use what you have for months, years, you just won't have access to all the channels that are MPEG4 until you get a VIPxxx.


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## kmcnamara

The most important detail for me out of tonight's chat. If you want the $200 rebate, you'll have to turn in your 921/942. That bites!


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## Mike500

They want them back for leasing as SD PVR's and provide users the option of subscribing to OTA HD, without subscribing to satellite HD.

Obviously, theyy would get the $5.98 DVR fee and another $6 HD fee for activating HD OTA without dbs HD.

That's basically why they want them back.


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## CCarncross

With all teh problems with the 921, why would anyone want to keep it anyway?


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## kmcnamara

CCarncross said:


> With all teh problems with the 921, why would anyone want to keep it anyway?


Mine's pretty stable now. It's actually pretty good and if it had worked this way out of the gate and had only cost $600 I might have actually thought it was a decent deal. Unfortunately it took over a year just to make it stable and I paid $1000 for it and didn't get the Dishwire. So it wasn't a good investment at all. That said, I'd use it as a 2nd HD DVR for sure.


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## harsh

James Long said:


> If one considers their 921/942 to be worth more than $200 or wants to continue using one as a second reciever they can. That's a good thing. The caveat is that the newest channels will only appear on the ViP models and resale value of the 921/942 is sure to drop when the 622 is easily available.


The resale may dry up entirely if the rumor about not adding 9xx series receivers to accounts (or adding them only as SD receivers) is true. You'll have three times the capacity of a 508 but with the nagging $5.98 DVR fee.

I too am surprised by the requirement to return the owned receivers. $200 is probably more than I can get out of it in parts, but it was going to be fun tearing it down. The again, I got my 921 as part of the 34" HDTV bundle, so I figure it is already written off.

Does anyone know if Dish leased any 9xx receivers and if so, what was the upgrade fee?


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## harsh

CCarncross said:


> With all teh problems with the 921, why would anyone want to keep it anyway?


If you've got an HDTV display without any kind of tuner, it is the only HD DVR with an analog capable tuner.


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## Alpaca Bill

harsh said:


> Does anyone know if Dish leased any 9xx receivers and if so, what was the upgrade fee?


No for the 921 and yes for the 942 at $250.

The biggest issue with having to turn our owned 921s is that we paid $1000 for a receiver that was never and still is not fully functional. There should be some consideration for this by Dish since the owners AND LEASEES of the 942 (a much more functional and stable receiver) get the same $200 rebate.:nono2:


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## dishbacker

harsh said:


> The resale may dry up entirely if the rumor about not adding 9xx series receivers to accounts (or adding them only as SD receivers) is true. You'll have three times the capacity of a 508 but with the nagging $5.98 DVR fee.
> 
> I too am surprised by the requirement to return the owned receivers. $200 is probably more than I can get out of it in parts, but it was going to be fun tearing it down. The again, I got my 921 as part of the 34" HDTV bundle, so I figure it is already written off.
> 
> Does anyone know if Dish leased any 9xx receivers and if so, what was the upgrade fee?


You would still be able to watch and record OTA-HD channels. And I wonder if you activate a 622/211 on your account with an HD package, if a newly added 942 will be able to get those channels as well?


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## normang

Mike500 said:


> They want them back for leasing as SD PVR's and provide users the option of subscribing to OTA HD, without subscribing to satellite HD.
> Obviously, theyy would get the $5.98 DVR fee and another $6 HD fee for activating HD OTA without dbs HD. That's basically why they want them back.


I haven't seen anything that indicates that Dish is going to do anything with 942's once they get them back.. I doubt seriously that they could get away with selling it as a SD/HD OTA solution either... it would generate as much flack as the current issues with having to trade it in for the 622 deal in the first place (IMHO)


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## Slordak

I'd love to just move my 921 to another room to replace my 508, and then use a brand new 622 as the primary receiver. But as noted above, doing so carries the dreaded DVR fee, so I can't honestly see wanting to do it.

And then there's the question of, "Well I paid $1000 plus shipping plus sales tax for my 921 just two years ago, is it now worth only $200?". Considering how much pain the receiver has inflicted on its owners, it really should get some sort of discount. Perhaps now that the 622 is out and its clear that it isn't going to get OpenTV or any other major bug-fixes, it should have its DVR fee waived?


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## James Long

dishbacker said:


> You would still be able to watch and record OTA-HD channels. And I wonder if you activate a 622/211 on your account with an HD package, if a newly added 942 will be able to get those channels as well?


The older HD receivers cannot see the new HD channels - E* has them tagged in such a way that they won't be in the EPG (the same way HD channels don't show up on SD receivers - it's all in the tags). At some point the new channels will be encoded in a way that only the new receivers will be able to view.

The software for a 'grandfathered' MPEG2 HD receiver still watching the old HD packs is the same as the software for a MPEG2 HD receiver that has been replaced by a ViP model. Unless E* installs an off switch for HD, the old HD channels should still show in the guide.

BTW: I also doubt that E* will be recycling 921/942s back to customers as SD only devices. The 625 and ViP-622 are the future of E*. They are willing to let go of the past.


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## larrystotler

James Long said:


> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._


Ok, that is [email protected]$$^T. Sorry, but I cannot say it any other way. Since I OWN my receviers I should NOT have to pay the EXTRA that is being tacked on for the lease units, and the same goes for the other 70% of E*'s customers. (sorry, not trying to shoot the messenger).



kmcnamara said:


> The most important detail for me out of tonight's chat. If you want the $200 rebate, you'll have to turn in your 921/942. That bites!


This is actually to be expected. Since they are planning to move to the MPEG4 content as soon as they can, then they probably plan to replace all the current HD receivers, and probably want to do so within a year since there are not that many of them.



Alpaca Bill said:


> The biggest issue with having to turn our owned 921s is that we paid $1000 for a receiver that was never and still is not fully functional. There should be some consideration for this by Dish since the owners AND LEASEES of the 942 (a much more functional and stable receiver) get the same $200 rebate.


Yes, that is a load of crap as well. Then add to the fact that the ones who OWNED the box must now LEASE it.......



James Long said:


> The older HD receivers cannot see the new HD channels - E* has them tagged in such a way that they won't be in the EPG (the same way HD channels don't show up on SD receivers - it's all in the tags). At some point the new channels will be encoded in a way that only the new receivers will be able to view.


Talk about a load of crap as well. If they can't get the MPEG4 to work right now, then they should allow those of us with the odler receivers a "Preview" of what we could get with the new HD boxes, and then shut it off when they fix the MPEG4 issues. That might give some a reason to want to switch. Maybe make the cut-off April 15th so that those who are being FORCED to wait for a rebate can at least get the stations until they are allowed to do the upgrade.


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## James Long

Complain now or complain later. They ARE going to convert to MPEG4.

Every day that old HD receivers get a signal is another day that people believe they can avoid doing the upgrade forever. The new channels are for those who bit the bullet, swallowed their pride, and took the offer. Think of it as a reward.


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## larrystotler

So far as I am concerned, I will NOT be upgrading at this point. Between the "lease" requirement and the increased cost, I will just let it "lose" the HD when it happens.


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## sbuko

The 942 is still better than a 508 or 510. I'll be using mine as a SD dual tuner for my wife. 

It's definitely worth more than $200 dollars to me.


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## jbach

Any word on how long the trade in rebate will be available? I was lucky enough to lease a 942 in August, so the deal (and my loss) isn't that bad for the extra value I'll be getting - still, waiting a bit beyond April till June or so would further milk value out of the original deal and let me get past the early software problems sure to come up.


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## RockStrongo

Well, I went ahead and got in on the lease. I own a 942 and do not want to "trade" it in for a leased one. 

So, I want to sell it on ebay or something. BUT, she said that they couldn't get to me until April 1st!!! ARGHH!! 

The prices will be alot less on ebay by then.


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## Rogueone

I wonder if I could get Dish to agree to let me hold my 921 until HD locals are available. The only reason I really wanted to keep my 921 was to record 2 HD locals for now. Once HD locals are up for me, I'd have to real use for the 921. oh well, decisions. And all this on top of the $500 I am spending this week on the new HK AVR-635 because i wanted RGB switching between the 622 and 921  doh


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## IowaStateFan

jbach said:


> Any word on how long the trade in rebate will be available? I was lucky enough to lease a 942 in August, so the deal (and my loss) isn't that bad for the extra value I'll be getting - still, waiting a bit beyond April till June or so would further milk value out of the original deal and let me get past the early software problems sure to come up.


That's a good question. I'm okay with my 921 for awhile, too. The extra cost of the programming just isn't worth it, until I can get the networks in HD. I don't anticipate that to happen anytime soon. My market - Colorado Springs - isn't on any lists that I've seen. It took several years to get them added in SD. If I can get distants in the meantime, I could be convinced to upgrade, but that doesn't sound too promising either  .


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## Rogueone

I have to make that choice too ISF. By the time HD locals are up in DC, it'll likely be after the current TV season ends, and there isn't enough on in the summer to care about. Around August it might make sense to upgrade unless I can find something worth getting thru espn2. this whole thing is such a mess at this point , ugh


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## RockStrongo

Rogueone said:


> I have to make that choice too ISF. By the time HD locals are up in DC, it'll likely be after the current TV season ends, and there isn't enough on in the summer to care about. Around August it might make sense to upgrade unless I can find something worth getting thru espn2. this whole thing is such a mess at this point , ugh


Yeah, I love my 942 and I would normally wait too.

BUT since I own it, the longer that I wait, the value of my 942 goes down. I want to maximize what I get for it.

I dont mind leasing the new one, but it pisses me off that I couldnt lease the 942 (they told me it was for new customers only)!! If I could have leased it, I could have easily turn it in on April 1st for the $200 rebate.


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## Stewart Vernon

That's what I thought was good about the current MPEG upgrade scenarios...

If you have a 6000u, 811, 921, or 942... then you can keep paying what you pay now and keep getting the channels that you get now... and you can wait and see if 6 months or a year from now the price comes down on ViP211 or ViP622 upgrades OR wait for the next new receiver, whatever that will be.

Or, you can pay to upgrade now and get a new receiver and get some new channels in the process.

Nothing turns off tomorrow if you don't upgrade.


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## normang

I'll probably go for the $299 upgrade, which also give you Dish upgrades if needed to a 622, move my 942 into another room replacing a 508 and have it maintain its current programming. Assuming it can.. 

Sometime in 2007, I'll ponder replacing it with another 622. How long one keeps a 942 may all be dependant on how long it can receive some HD programming. OTA locals should always work..


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## RockStrongo

HDMe said:


> Nothing turns off tomorrow if you don't upgrade.


Im sure it wasn't in their marketing plan to tell new customers that their brand new HD-DVR942 receiver would not be able to receive their new HD channels (mpeg4).

I just wish they were more willing to help out those of us who purchased the 942. Obviously, they have left us out to dry on this one. Supposedly, Directv is being more helpful (though I think it might just be rumors at this point).


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## Stewart Vernon

RockStrongo said:


> Im sure it wasn't in their marketing plan to tell new customers that their brand new HD-DVR942 receiver would not be able to receive their new HD channels (mpeg4).
> 
> I just wish they were more willing to help out those of us who purchased the 942. Obviously, they have left us out to dry on this one. Supposedly, Directv is being more helpful (though I think it might just be rumors at this point).


Everybody is out to dry. I bought my 6000u receiver because those were never leased either. I also had to pay the $99 to get my 61.5 dish installed way back when all the HD was on 61.5 exclusively.

I do understand some of the frustration... but there is never any promise that we will get new channels or that we will get the new channels without needing new equipment. So this scenario where current customers can stay as we are OR pay a little to be early adopters seems fair to me... and they are giving existing customers the same opportunity as new customers, which in the past is what everyone complained they wanted to get... treated just like new customers.


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## RockStrongo

HDMe said:


> Everybody is out to dry...and they are giving existing customers the same opportunity as new customers, which in the past is what everyone complained they wanted to get... treated just like new customers.


That is true....they are treating existing the same as they are new customers finally.

Also, they are helping those out who leased the 942, BUT those of us who bought them dont get any help. Oh well. 

Im gonna sell my 942 and just lease the 622. After all is done, I will probably be out a couple hundred dollars, but thats not too bad.


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## normang

Dish is moving into new technologies required to move the Satellite business ahead. They cannot give away new gear to thousands of customers and remain viable. 

You always know that if your first out the gate with new tech, its going to cost you more, perhaps a lot more. And you should realize that within months,what was once a $1000 is going to be less and eventually low hundreds when its replaced with the latest and greatest within months or a year. 

If you cannot accept that your $1000 toy is going to be worth $200 several months, a year down the road, don't buy it. Specially if your aware that something new is on the horizon (mpeg4) perhaps we should have all waited.. 

But just saying that your a loyal customer and you "deserve" a break and the breaks given don't satisfy you, you have choices, go elsewhere, hope that the grass is really greener on the other side, wait and keep what you have, eventually as it always does, new deals will come along with better prices..


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## RockStrongo

normang said:


> Dish is moving into new technologies required to move the Satellite business ahead. They cannot give away new gear to thousands of customers and remain viable.
> 
> You always know that if your first out the gate with new tech, its going to cost you more, perhaps a lot more. And you should realize that within months,what was once a $1000 is going to be less and eventually low hundreds when its replaced with the latest and greatest within months or a year.
> 
> If you cannot accept that your $1000 toy is going to be worth $200 several months, a year down the road, don't buy it. Specially if your aware that something new is on the horizon (mpeg4) perhaps we should have all waited..
> 
> But just saying that your a loyal customer and you "deserve" a break and the breaks given don't satisfy you, you have choices, go elsewhere, hope that the grass is really greener on the other side, wait and keep what you have, eventually as it always does, new deals will come along with better prices..


Well, I understand all of what your saying, BUT it still doesnt address the fact that dish network DIDN'T allow me (as an existing customer) to lease the 942.

If they had allowed me to lease, I would have done that instead of buying one, then only had to pay $99 to upgrade. I would have been a much happier camper.

Hopefully, treating existing customers the same as new customers is a new trend for them.


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## liferules

Yeah, I have to agree with RS on this one...

Dish has been advertising the 942 for quite some time now. Even up thru last month, they were insisting on existing customers to BUY the 942 and would only lease it to new customers. They had to know by last month that the ViP-622 was on its way and to continue to force existing customers to purchase the HD-DVR is not what one would expect from a company that values its long-standing customers.

I think we all understand the risks of buying new technology...remember when the TiVo's were $1000? Now they're practically free! But that was over several years, not one month...


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## Greg L

For those of you angry because of paying $1000 and now getting $200...

I too hate that technology sometimes drops so quickly in price when I have invested in the cutting edge but I guess it is the price we must pay for having it first! 

For instance I bought an HDTV 2 1/2 years ago (i won't go into details as to which) I paid about $4800 for it it was almost brand new technology. Today I can find the exact samt TV for about $2000 that is over a $1000 loss per year! I guess that is the way it is with technology.


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## Rogueone

the only part I'm really upset with is not being allowed to keep the 921 I payed 1g for. At least let me keep it if I want to. It's not like it's of much use to Dish once I return it. They'll just trash it anyway. 

being that some of us own these 921's and 942's, I do have to say it seems a bit cheap to offer the same deal to the leasers of 942's as the purchasers. At least if they'd let me keep my 921 until HD locals were in place I'd be happy, i need 2 OTA tuners till then


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## IowaStateFan

Rogueone said:


> the only part I'm really upset with is not being allowed to keep the 921 I payed 1g for. At least let me keep it if I want to. It's not like it's of much use to Dish once I return it. They'll just trash it anyway.


I think they want to get them off the street. It hurts E* to have someone sell a crippled receiver on Ebay. People will blame them when they can't activate HD, and E* really doesn't want to support the 921 anymore.

This brings up an interesting question. What is the advantage of owning a receiver anyway? (Forget that us 921 users didn't have a choice). You pay $700 upfront and the same monthly lease fee that lessors pay. Remember, it's built into the programming price. Sure you "own" it, but you can't use it unless you subscribe to Dish. What are you going to do with it? Sell it on Ebay? Why tie up your cash when you can lease it for 1/2 the up front cost? I don't get it.


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## normang

RockStrongo said:


> Well, I understand all of what your saying, BUT it still doesnt address the fact that dish network DIDN'T allow me (as an existing customer) to lease the 942. If they had allowed me to lease, I would have done that instead of buying one, then only had to pay $99 to upgrade. I would have been a much happier camper.
> 
> Hopefully, treating existing customers the same as new customers is a new trend for them.


I don't think anyone can really understand how it all works, unless you can sit in the room where these decisions are made. I don't understand either why Dish elected not to lease the 942, perhaps at some level even they thought up until a few months ago, they were not going to be ready for the VIP series until later this year.. Perhaps engineering was giving dates farther out and then wrapped up sooner than expected. Course we'll never know, because I don't think anyone inside will ever really tell us.

I see this behavior in more than just Dish, a number of companies do the same thing, with different products all the time. For example, even though you might know that new HDTV models usually come out at a certain time of year, your ready to upgrade. You buy the set you've had your eye on for a while. Say you spent $3000, and then 2 months later, new models appear, and that model you just bought is now $22-2300. or several hundred less than you just paid for it.. There are other examples I am sure.

I like others would like either more details or better options, but the only way I am going to get a better deal is more than likely is to wait even longer, because I am sure that eventually, better deais will come along when 622 are sitting on shelves waiting for new homes, instead of short supply as they probably are now meeting initial demand.

I just don't feel like Dish owes me something for a decision "*I*" made when I bought my 942.. I knew that mpeg4 was coming more or less, and they were quicker than I thought by a few months.. If someone here can say that Dish forced them to spend a $1000 for a 921 or forced them to spend $700 for a 942, then Dish may owe you something.. otherwise, the decision was made by the people that now own 921's and 942's... not Dish...


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## normang

Rogueone said:


> the only part I'm really upset with is not being allowed to keep the 921 I payed 1g for. At least let me keep it if I want to. It's not like it's of much use to Dish once I return it. They'll just trash it anyway. being that some of us own these 921's and 942's, I do have to say it seems a bit cheap to offer the same deal to the leasers of 942's as the purchasers. At least if they'd let me keep my 921 until HD locals were in place I'd be happy, i need 2 OTA tuners till then


If I understand the first message in this topic, you can keep your 921 if you want to pay $299 for your 622.. You only have to give up the 921 if you want the $99 deal. Correct me if I am wrong..

I think we all understand the limitations of keeping a 921 or 942, you don't get the new channels, you should be able to keep what it has now I would think, until proven otherwise. It should always do SD and OTA HD.. The question is when are the rest of the MPEG2 HD Channels that you can watch on a 942 or 921 going to go to MPEG4, thats when the 942 and 921 will really deflate in value if you cannot watch at least some of the other HD, such as Discovery HD, or HDNET, TNTHD, etc..


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## Rogueone

it's not they we were "forced" to spend $1000 on a 921, it's how poorly it funtioned, and how many of it's "announced" features got pulled. I think it lost nearly half of it's "features". NBR never arrived, OTA was terrible in the beginning, solder issues, video issues, it still needs almost weekly reboots. If the 921 were a car, it would have been deemed a lemon (no pun intended to myself  ) and would have been recalled. 

The gripe is more that there should be a special compensation for 921 owners who bought in the first 3 months of release before there were any chances to "know" there were problems. It's on thing to say we bought knowing there were problems, or could have found out here. But there were no indications of the kinds of problems that arose. That's why 921 early adopters might feel a little jipped, but overall I won't complain other than not being allowed to do the upgrade without returning my 921


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## Rogueone

normang said:


> If I understand the first message in this topic, you can keep your 921 if you want to pay $299 for your 622.. You only have to give up the 921 if you want the $99 deal. Correct me if I am wrong..


we owners should be allowed to keep what we paid for, or we should be given equal value in return. If they want me to return my owned box, I should own the 622 for the $99 upgrade fee, I shouldn't be leasing. That's bogus. Otherwise, since the 622 is a lease, the owned 921/942's should be the property of the owners.


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## normang

Rogueone said:


> we owners should be allowed to keep what we paid for, or we should be given equal value in return. If they want me to return my owned box, I should own the 622 for the $99 upgrade fee, I shouldn't be leasing. That's bogus. Otherwise, since the 622 is a lease, the owned 921/942's should be the property of the owners.


I must be missing something, you can keep the 921/942 if you want to if I understand it correctly. The difference is that Dish wants more if you keep that reciever.

While I can understand to some degree that you think you should get it for less because you paid more to own it, but since it isn't going to work that way, you have to pick one of the few obvious options, keep it - $299, give it up - $99, or do nothing, or find some other service that makes the the equipment worth whatever you might be able to sell it for as long as the buyer understands the limitations.


----------



## James Long

And be aware that the limitations may be severe. Buyers might want to check with E* to make sure a 921/942 can be activated on their account before paying a dime.


----------



## Rogueone

i'm just saying it would be more appropriate if the leased 942 people swapped and the owning 921/942 people owned. Maybe, for the $299, Dish could let us own and for $99 lease, at least that would make a little sense. 

just don't see the validity in forcing owners to become leasers unless there is a plan to end all owning and go to a lease only setup like cable. But, if the "lease" fee for the 622 is built into the package price, I guess that's not so bad after all


----------



## James Long

There is nothing stopping E* from coming up with a better offer later in the year - except the wrath of everyone who accepts the $200 return rebate in April. 

E* can also make the $200 look really good by not activating 921/942s. $200 is better than $0 if you're deactivating the 921/942 ...


----------



## RockStrongo

normang said:


> I don't think anyone can really understand how it all works,


Yes, I can understand. They feel that new customers are more important than existing. Its very simple. They wanted the 942s to draw in new customers while making the existing ones buy them at full price.

You would think that a company would treat its existing customers like gold, but for as long as I can remember Dish Network has not. Unfortunately, Ive tried switching to cable and its an inferior product.

Im hoping this attitude changes because I am considering switching to Directv (who actually has a phone number for customer retention ).

I really like the channel lineup/products that Dish has to offer, I am just getting tired of the treatment.

I guess im like a girl whose boyfriend verbally abuses her, but the sex is good so I stay.


----------



## normang

RockStrongo said:


> Yes, I can understand. They feel that new customers are more important than existing. Its very simple. They wanted the 942s to draw in new customers while making the existing ones buy them at full price. You would think that a company would treat its existing customers like gold, but for as long as I can remember Dish Network has not. Unfortunately, Ive tried switching to cable and its an inferior product. Im hoping this attitude changes because I am considering switching to Directv (who actually has a phone number for customer retention ). I really like the channel lineup/products that Dish has to offer, I am just getting tired of the treatment. I guess im like a girl whose boyfriend verbally abuses her, but the sex is good so I stay.


I guess that's one way to look at it, Dish has customer retention as well, though they may not have a direct number published for such a department, I've read where people are switched to someone who can make offers to retain them should they call to cancel, how far they can go or whether its still done, I don't know.

Unfortunately, as I see it, and Its just my opinion, in this business, new subs probably are more important. Because this number has to keep increasing to fend off competition from cable, which is still easier to deploy unless your located somewhere you can't get cable. With more new subs and that new sub count increasing, it gives Dish some clout to negotiate more effectively with some of these providers that think their content is worth gold, and in most cases, its not.

So, as I see it, whether we like it or not, perhaps new subs are more important. Should everyone be treated equally? Perhaps, in a perfect world, but we don't have one of those and we never will..


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## RockStrongo

normang said:


> I guess that's one way to look at it, Dish has customer retention as well, though they may not have a direct number published for such a department, I've read where people are switched to someone who can make offers to retain them should they call to cancel, how far they can go or whether its still done, I don't know.


Well, there customer service department leaves alot to be desired. The tech support department has been very good though.



> Unfortunately, as I see it, and Its just my opinion, in this business, new subs probably are more important. Because this number has to keep increasing to fend off competition from cable, which is still easier to deploy unless your located somewhere you can't get cable. With more new subs and that new sub count increasing, it gives Dish some clout to negotiate more effectively with some of these providers that think their content is worth gold, and in most cases, its not.
> 
> So, as I see it, whether we like it or not, perhaps new subs are more important. Should everyone be treated equally? Perhaps, in a perfect world, but we don't have one of those and we never will..


That logic doesnt make sense at all.

Im an existing customer whose contract is up. I can switch anytime OR I can continue to subscribe. I SHOULD be treated like a new customer. If I leave, then thats one more customer that they have to sign up to replace me.

That doesnt even approach the customer loyalty aspect of this.


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## kmcnamara

Agreed. I think keeping a customer should be more important than adding a new one because there is always cost associated with a new customer (free installs, cheap/free equipment). If they lose me and add 1 more they're not in any better position than they were and I would argue a slightly worse position.


----------



## Rogueone

my guess is , statistics bear out that we aren't leaving to go to D* and cable in numbers that are not expected. For most of us, cable is more expensive, and less desirable, has less HD other than locals. And from posts by persons with both D* and E* HD, it seems E* is always considered the better HD provider. 

so, where are we going to go? cable isn't going to change soon, D* isn't going to change soon. The one upstart in all this that is likely to cause a big shakeup is Verizon, and possibly ATT, as FiOS is rolled out. they are looking to "steal" customers at the start with better pricing, faster internet, ala carte, etc. And there are a lot less bandwidth issues on fiber than sat or cable (though some have put in fiber in parts of their systems). It'll happen when Dish is loosing more customers per month than they have projected to maintain their business model.

Till then, it's like the ala carte issue. While we may not like the current situation, it hasn't gotten to the point where we are complaining enough for them to change. but, there will be a day, just like is happening now in the ala carte discussion, where the customers get fed up and start demanding change en masse. Right now, while I agree Dish could make me a happier customer, there isn't a service I'd change to, and FiOS is the only one I'm curious about possibly changing to in the forseeable future.


----------



## CABill

RockStrongo said:


> Well, there customer service department leaves alot to be desired. The tech support department has been very good though.


You can be lucky or unlucky with either department. When the woman first said Swap on a 942 during the Tech Chat, I phoned. I got sent to an advanced Tech that knew the equipment quite well, but apparently wasn't current on customer service. She put me on hold to confirm that "you don't have to return that since you own it. We often use the term swap without meaning you have to physically send something back." She continued to call the $6/month an HD Access fee and tried to explain that it would be charged on the 1st/only receiver. I gave up and went back to watching the paused Tech Chat to see them clearly state I'd have to return the purchased 942.

It does seem like you are better off requesting Tech Support at the beginning of the automated assistant tree and then picking "Other", even if a billing question.


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## RockStrongo

CABill said:


> It does seem like you are better off requesting Tech Support at the beginning of the automated assistant tree and then picking "Other", even if a billing question.


Yes, this has been my experience too.

A few years ago, I had Dish, but moved to another apartment. They told me to leave the satellite there and only take the receiver. So, I did. Well, when the tech came to my new apartment, he didnt even try to install and said that I didnt have line of sight. He left.

After they cancelled my service (since they couldnt install), I got a $50 bill for the old LNB! I called the customer service department and argued with her. I told her that THEY told me to leave everything at the old apartment and I couldnt return what I didnt have. I told her that the tech should have left me one that I could return. She would have none of it and said that I owed the money.

I told her to connect me with tech support. She did and they immediately removed the charge from my bill without question after I explained my situation.


----------



## normang

I never said it made sense.. However, as we are discussing, it seems that getting the new sub seems to be a slightly higher priority. Dish is providing options, however none of them ever seem to be good enough because everyone seems to want the latest and greatest for next to nothing merely because they paid X for receiver X, Reciever X was junk, or I've been a loyal customer for X and I should get special discounts..


----------



## IowaStateFan

normang said:


> I guess that's one way to look at it, Dish has customer retention as well, though they may not have a direct number published for such a department, I've read where people are switched to someone who can make offers to retain them should they call to cancel, how far they can go or whether its still done, I don't know.
> 
> Unfortunately, as I see it, and Its just my opinion, in this business, new subs probably are more important. Because this number has to keep increasing to fend off competition from cable, which is still easier to deploy unless your located somewhere you can't get cable. With more new subs and that new sub count increasing, it gives Dish some clout to negotiate more effectively with some of these providers that think their content is worth gold, and in most cases, its not.
> 
> So, as I see it, whether we like it or not, perhaps new subs are more important. Should everyone be treated equally? Perhaps, in a perfect world, but we don't have one of those and we never will..


How to attract new customers without pissing off the existing customers is a dicey business. Existing customers are clearly more profitable than the newbies. However, Wall Street wants to see growth. It's not good enough to be profitable and having good cash flow. CEO's are rewarded by growing the company. So they have to make a decision on how much they can offer the new customer without losing existing customers who are upset at those great deals they can't get. I think that the dynamics are changing now. The satellite market has matured, and the growth in new subscribers has slowed. This means that customer retention becomes more important than trying to attract new customers. It costs a lot to get a new customer, and if he leaves as soon as his contract expires the company loses. Wall Street has started demanding that the DBS companies reduce costs and churn. The bottom line is: I think the days of the great new customer only deals are numbered and that us existing loyal customers will be given some better incentives to stay. We're seeing it with the MPEG4 upgrade offers, and you'll notice that D*'s offers for new customers aren't much better than those for existing customers either.


----------



## RockStrongo

normang said:


> Dish is providing options, however none of them ever seem to be good enough because everyone seems to want the latest and greatest for next to nothing merely because they paid X for receiver X, Reciever X was junk, or I've been a loyal customer for X and I should get special discounts..


No, thats not the issue. We arent asking for "special" discounts at all.

We are just saying we want to be treated as well as the new customers. I dont think its too much to ask. Im not whining about having to pay for new technology. I understand those costs involved.

Again, new customers could lease the 942 and I was told that I could not. I even told them that I would sign a new contract. They still said no.

Now, customers who leased the 942 can get $200 back if they swap for the new unit. Where I could do that too, but I have to give them my 942. Ridiculous. Its very clear.


----------



## olgeezer

as the 942s aren't available and the offer on the 622s is the same or better for existing customers as new, I think Dish may have answered many of their customers desires. I hooked up my 622, today.


----------



## DP1

kmcnamara said:


> I think keeping a customer should be more important than adding a new one because there is always cost associated with a new customer (free installs, cheap/free equipment). If they lose me and add 1 more they're not in any better position than they were and I would argue a slightly worse position.


At what point should "keeping one is more important than adding one" kick in though? After their first 100 customers.. 100,000, 1 million.. 10 million?

As long as the majority of existing ones dont bail, adding new ones has to be more important in their minds. Having 10 million paying subs is better than having 7 million even if somewhere along the line you ticked off 1 million of them enough to where they left.

Unless one said, "Well if you wouldnt have ticked any of those previously happy subs off with poor support you then have 11 million instead of 10." Well no you wouldnt.. not if it wouldnt have been important to you to add more subs by hook or by crook along the way. 

I suppose the only way to make sure nobody ever feels like they're getting the short end would be to make it where any and all subs (new AND existing) can always upgrade to the latest and greatest hardware thats offered with hardly anything upfront. Thats basically what cable does.

Obviously DBS co's arent prepared to do that quite yet. As as long as they keep gaining more customers than they lose I dont imagine they feel compelled to.

Plus, the ones who feel they get jobbed the worst are HD subs because they paid the most for their equipment to start with. But thats a small enough percentage of the sub base to where if they revolt it's nothing like if the SD masses would ever revolt.


----------



## RockStrongo

DP1 said:


> Plus, the ones who feel they get jobbed the worst are HD subs because they paid the most for their equipment to start with. But thats a small enough percentage of the sub base to where if they revolt it's nothing like if the SD masses would ever revolt.


Very true. We are definately a minority.


----------



## IowaStateFan

Rogueone said:


> we owners should be allowed to keep what we paid for, or we should be given equal value in return. If they want me to return my owned box, I should own the 622 for the $99 upgrade fee, I shouldn't be leasing. That's bogus. Otherwise, since the 622 is a lease, the owned 921/942's should be the property of the owners.


I don't understand this obsession with owning vs leasing. What are you going to do? Cancel your subscription and sell your 622 on E-Bay? Sure you might be able to make a quick $500 doing that (assuming they'd allow you to own it for the $99 upgrade price), but would it be worth it? You've said you want to keep your 921 until HD LiLs become available for you as a 2nd OTA DVR. Then you can sell it for how much? $100? $200? Nothing 'cause it's worthless? You can "sell" it to E* now for $200. It's up to you decide what a 2nd OTA DVR is worth.

Look, I understand your situation, because it's the same as mine. We paid 2x up front because there was no option to lease. However, E* has said that they are moving toward leasing. Under their pricing structure it is a disadvantage to own. Owners pay the lease fee because it's built into the program price. There aren't any programming discounts for owners, yet they'll have to pay 2X upfront for the priviledge of owning. The only reason to own is if you want more tuners than E* will lease you and that's their way of recouping the cost of the hardware.


----------



## normang

RockStrongo said:


> No, thats not the issue. We arent asking for "special" discounts at all.
> 
> We are just saying we want to be treated as well as the new customers. I dont think its too much to ask. Im not whining about having to pay for new technology. I understand those costs involved.
> 
> Again, new customers could lease the 942 and I was told that I could not. I even told them that I would sign a new contract. They still said no.
> 
> Now, customers who leased the 942 can get $200 back if they swap for the new unit. Where I could do that too, but I have to give them my 942. Ridiculous. Its very clear.


Yes, I understand this.. and you and I perhaps are the exception where we are not expecting special treatment, but many are.. I don't particluarly agree with Dish and think that they should perhaps have some optional programs for current subs. I don't see this happening, it might, but I am not holding my breath...


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## RockStrongo

IowaStateFan said:


> Look, I understand your situation, because it's the same as mine. We paid 2x up front because there was no option to lease.


Exactly...I dont mind leasing at all and would actually prefer it.

Hopefully, this new promotion thats available to existing customers is a step in the right direction for them (even if it leaves some of us out some money). I hope they start treating us better.


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## WWS2

I am lost. I got a 942 back in the end of October 2005 and paid $250 via VMC Satellite for it. Now I just had delivered the 622 which cost me another $300. Do I get back $200 returning the 942? Do I own the 942 since I paid the $250 and can resell it? Calling E* customer service is useless-the 3 I spoke to have not a clue. Thanks all!

Walter
Lafayette NJ

ps-I have the 622 sitting here for a week, but they say I cant have it installed until 2/22. Any way around that?


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## Rogueone

ISF, my position is looking at the rebate for what it is, a buyback or a payoff  Dish is saying essentially, 'hey we're sorry we sold you that piece of crap and could never get it working correctly, here, please upgrade to this newer box we have that works better, an we'll refund you $200 as a thank you for not giving up on us'. At least that's how I look at this rebate  as such, I did spit out 1g for this 921, what's wrong with letting me upgrade my 501/301 to the 622 and still get the rebate since it's purpose isn't to move us to the new box, it's to pay us off!! If you think about it, how many here waiting for 4/1 would have upgraded on 2/1 if there had not been a rebate announced? hands please :wave: 

hey, you gotta be in my head to understand how it thinks haha. actually, I think my thougts on this are changing, as it was stated in that tech chat that there ISN'T a lease fee for the 622 as the primary lease unit. IF I can swap the 921 and turn in my 501/301 AND keep the 622 under my existing DHP plan, I'd do it. With the distribution ability of the 622, I'd have no need for a 501 downstairs or a 301 in the bedroom. I only watch real TV on the 921 now, and only via DVR. the 501 is just noise during the day, like the wife watching Judy Hatchett or soaps and news, and the kids watching some disney. Nothing they ever watch is while the 622 would be recording, so no conflict issues. Though it might be worth holding onto one of them just for convenience, returning them would save $10  I was peaved about having to pay a lease fee for the 622 after owning a 921, especially since DHP has the lease fee built in. 

So I might not be upset anymore, I won't know for sure until 4/1 when I try to upgrade and see what happens. I am gonna try to puch Dish to allow me to get the 622 via the upgrade, but hold my $200 rebate until I return the 921 which would be once DC HD locals are up. I know they won't but I'm still gonna try. I normally have 2 to 4 recording pairs a week in conflict, which means only 1 gets to be HD, and I hate that (well, not hate, but just wish both could be HD, sort of a light hate hehe) And on Wed nights I now have 3 on at 9pm, so it's really inconvient  The 3 recording ability of the 622 will actually pay off more than anything for me, so I guess I just need to decide if it's worth upgrading on 4/1 or wait until HD LIL shows up


----------



## IowaStateFan

WWS2 said:


> I am lost. I got a 942 back in the end of October 2005 and paid $250 via VMC Satellite for it. Now I just had delivered the 622 which cost me another $300. Do I get back $200 returning the 942? Do I own the 942 since I paid the $250 and can resell it? Calling E* customer service is useless-the 3 I spoke to have not a clue. Thanks all!
> 
> Walter
> Lafayette NJ
> 
> ps-I have the 622 sitting here for a week, but they say I cant have it installed until 2/22. Any way around that?


Based on the price you paid it sounds like you leased your 942. I suspect you'll have to send it back if you turn it off. You would have been eligible for the $200 rebate had you waited until April 1st. However, since you jumped early, you won't get the rebate.


----------



## Rogueone

but, since you didn't do the swap at $99, you would seem to have the option of keeping the 942 for a while if you need it


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## RockStrongo

IowaStateFan said:


> Based on the price you paid it sounds like you leased your 942. I suspect you'll have to send it back if you turn it off. You would have been eligible for the $200 rebate had you waited until April 1st. However, since you jumped early, you won't get the rebate.


If I were him, I would ask if I could change my install date to 4/1. MAYBE, they will give him the $200 rebate at that time. Im not sure though.


----------



## RockStrongo

Rogueone said:


> but, since you didn't do the swap at $99, you would seem to have the option of keeping the 942 for a while if you need it


True....maybe if he just keeps it until 4/1, he can swap it for $200?? Who knows? Its confusing.

But, if they are making you swap it now....ask them if you can wait until 4/1 and get the rebate.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

RockStrongo said:


> No, thats not the issue. We arent asking for "special" discounts at all.
> 
> We are just saying we want to be treated as well as the new customers. I dont think its too much to ask. Im not whining about having to pay for new technology. I understand those costs involved.
> 
> Again, new customers could lease the 942 and I was told that I could not. I even told them that I would sign a new contract. They still said no.
> 
> Now, customers who leased the 942 can get $200 back if they swap for the new unit. Where I could do that too, but I have to give them my 942. Ridiculous. Its very clear.


Ok... not to nitpick on you here... but in the past Dish was making offers to new customers that existing customers could not get, and everyone said "we just want to be treated like new customers"... so now Dish is extending the same, or better, ViP offers to new and existing customers, and some still want more?

To be fair, in this very post you first say "we are just saying we want to be treated as well as the new customers" but then you go on to say you want a special deal for your 942. It is a conflicting concept.

And not to rub dirt/salt into the wound... but here's another way at looking all this.

Remember how difficult Dish made it for you and others to get the 942? They didn't offer it for lease except for some people that begged and begged for it? Maybe, just maybe, that was Dish trying to discourage you from getting the 942! Some people begged and begged for the lease and are now mad... other people were mad they couldn't lease and went out and bought one but were mad Dish wouldn't let them lease... so now Dish will let you lease their new ViP receiver and there's still complaining.

Just something to think about... maybe patience would have paid off a year ago too.


----------



## larrystotler

IowaStateFan said:


> I don't understand this obsession with owning vs leasing. What are you going to do? Cancel your subscription and sell your 622 on E-Bay? Sure you might be able to make a quick $500 doing that (assuming they'd allow you to own it for the $99 upgrade price), but would it be worth it? You've said you want to keep your 921 until HD LiLs become available for you as a 2nd OTA DVR. Then you can sell it for how much? $100? $200? Nothing 'cause it's worthless? You can "sell" it to E* now for $200. It's up to you decide what a 2nd OTA DVR is worth.


I don't like the lease because I have issues like being able to downgrade my service for seasonal disconnect like I did recently without returning them. Further, I like the option of being able to re-sell the receiver later on. When you lease, and have to pay an upgrade fee of $250, and then another upgrade fee of $299 to get the newest stuff, and still have to return it with no ability to recoup your costs, then you are out totally. I plan to get my 811 & 6000u replaced and then sell them in the long run if that is the option. I do not feel that I should have to pay to replace a reciver that they will force me to in order to keep my current level of programming, and I for one have NO need for "professional installation" when I AM a professional installer.


----------



## RockStrongo

HDMe said:


> To be fair, in this very post you first say "we are just saying we want to be treated as well as the new customers" but then you go on to say you want a special deal for your 942. It is a conflicting concept.


Is it really a special deal though?

I wonder, if I am a new customer, can I get a 622 for $299 leased when signing up?

If so, then we are not completely being treated equally since we have to swap to receive the deal.

It still rubs me the wrong way that they did not allow the 942 lease to begin with.

But, Ive come to terms with it. I ordered mine the other day and will ebay my 942.



> And not to rub dirt/salt into the wound... but here's another way at looking all this.
> 
> Remember how difficult Dish made it for you and others to get the 942? They didn't offer it for lease except for some people that begged and begged for it? Maybe, just maybe, that was Dish trying to discourage you from getting the 942! Some people begged and begged for the lease and are now mad... other people were mad they couldn't lease and went out and bought one but were mad Dish wouldn't let them lease... so now Dish will let you lease their new ViP receiver and there's still complaining.
> 
> Just something to think about... maybe patience would have paid off a year ago too.


Well, to be fair to those who bought the 942, they probably had good reason. The 811 and 921 were both very buggy receivers (I had the 811 and bypassed the 921). We were all waiting for a decent upgrade. If anything, Dish (knowing about the mpeg4 release) should have included it in the 942 OR waited to release the 942 when it could support it.

Patience? Ha....we are talking about tech geeks here (me included).


----------



## Stewart Vernon

RockStrongo said:


> Is it really a special deal though?
> 
> I wonder, if I am a new customer, can I get a 622 for $299 leased when signing up?
> 
> If so, then we are not completely being treated equally since we have to swap to receive the deal.


New customers, and existing customers can lease a ViP622 for $299. It's the same deal.

Existing customers with a 921/942 can trade in their box and only pay $99. Better deal for the existing customer in this case.

So it is either the same or a better deal for existing customers than for new ones. Arguably, it might not be good enough for some existing customers... I can't argue that point... but certainly it is the same or better than new customers get.



RockStrongo said:


> It still rubs me the wrong way that they did not allow the 942 lease to begin with.


I know... I bought my 6000u way back when because it was their only HD receiver available at the time and no lease option for it. The 811 lease didn't come out until I had my receiver for about a year I think. I wouldn't have bought if I could have leased from the beginning.


----------



## Ron Barry

RockStrongo said:


> If I were him, I would ask if I could change my install date to 4/1. MAYBE, they will give him the $200 rebate at that time. Im not sure though.


My guess the 4/1 date would be tied to your order date not the install date.


----------



## RockStrongo

HDMe said:


> New customers, and existing customers can lease a ViP622 for $299. It's the same deal.
> 
> Existing customers with a 921/942 can trade in their box and only pay $99. Better deal for the existing customer in this case.
> 
> So it is either the same or a better deal for existing customers than for new ones. Arguably, it might not be good enough for some existing customers... I can't argue that point... but certainly it is the same or better than new customers get.


I just called for clarification (hopefully thats what it was).

I signed up for the new 622 for $299 and I have to upgrade to the new HD pack and sign an 18 month contract.

The customer service rep told me that I DON'T have to turn in my 942 (which I purchased not leased). BUT, if I wanted to swap, I could do that on 4/1 and get an additional $200 off (for either the 921/942).

If this is the case, then Im content. I was confused about the details.

To me, it wouldn't make sense to make existing customer's turn in their PURCHASED receivers to get a deal that new customers are getting for just signing up.


----------



## IowaStateFan

HDMe said:


> Existing customers with a 921/942 can trade in their box and only pay $99. Better deal for the existing customer in this case.


Not to be picky, but it may not be a better deal for the existing customer. New customer pays $299 cash. I pay $99 cash + my 921. If my 921 is worth more than $200 (in parts, for sale on E-Bay, etc.) then I'm not getting a better deal.


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## RockStrongo

IowaStateFan said:


> Not to be picky, but it may not be a better deal for the existing customer. New customer pays $299 cash. I pay $99 cash + my 921. If my 921 is worth more than $200 (in parts, for sale on E-Bay, etc.) then I'm not getting a better deal.


Yeah, thats why I am going to sell mine on ebay. Looks like they are going for well over the $200 they are offering (twice as much or more).

Though, that price will lower some within the next couple weeks probably.


----------



## Rogueone

larrystotler said:


> I don't like the lease because I have issues like being able to downgrade my service for seasonal disconnect like I did recently without returning them. Further, I like the option of being able to re-sell the receiver later on. When you lease, and have to pay an upgrade fee of $250, and then another upgrade fee of $299 to get the newest stuff, and still have to return it with no ability to recoup your costs, then you are out totally. I plan to get my 811 & 6000u replaced and then sell them in the long run if that is the option. I do not feel that I should have to pay to replace a reciver that they will force me to in order to keep my current level of programming, and I for one have NO need for "professional installation" when I AM a professional installer.


here's what I don't get Larry, if you have an 811, and if you have the necessary dishes and switches and cabling, you could get a 211 free. So why are you complaining about the upgrade? What's wrong with free for a $399 receiver whose lease cost is "built-in" to the monthly subscription price regardless of whether you lease or not?


----------



## IowaStateFan

larrystotler said:


> I don't like the lease because I have issues like being able to downgrade my service for seasonal disconnect like I did recently without returning them. Further, I like the option of being able to re-sell the receiver later on. When you lease, and have to pay an upgrade fee of $250, and then another upgrade fee of $299 to get the newest stuff, and still have to return it with no ability to recoup your costs, then you are out totally. I plan to get my 811 & 6000u replaced and then sell them in the long run if that is the option. I do not feel that I should have to pay to replace a reciver that they will force me to in order to keep my current level of programming, and I for one have NO need for "professional installation" when I AM a professional installer.


Okay, I hadn't considered the seasonal disconnect. That might be valid. I do think you are paying thru the nose to have the option to resell. In the case of the 622 you can lease it for $299 or buy it for $699. In 2 years you want to upgrade to the newest equipment. Again, it will cost you $299 to lease, or $699 to buy. If you bought you could sell your 622. You'd have to get $400 for to break even and you would've had your money tied up in equipment. I think it would be a stretch to think your equipment would retain 60% of its value. If you got some sort of discount on your programming because you owned (ie. the lessors paid a lease fee) then there may be some value in owning. As it is, I don't see it.

For this upgrade, E* is not forcing anyone to upgrade to keep their current level of programming. That may change down the road, but then I suspect they'll have a different offer for the holdouts.


----------



## Rogueone

RockStrongo said:


> I just called for clarification (hopefully thats what it was).
> 
> I signed up for the new 622 for $299 and I have to upgrade to the new HD pack and sign an 18 month contract.
> 
> The customer service rep told me that I DON'T have to turn in my 942 (which I purchased not leased). BUT, if I wanted to swap, I could do that on 4/1 and get an additional $200 off (for either the 921/942).
> 
> If this is the case, then Im content. I was confused about the details.
> 
> To me, it wouldn't make sense to make existing customer's turn in their PURCHASED receivers to get a deal that new customers are getting for just signing up.


Rock, it's pretty simple. Anyone can get a 622 for $299, it doesn't matter if you have a 921/942 for that price, and you get to keep the 942 in your case. If you have no need for the 942 after getting the 622, just order after 4/1 and get the $200 rebate along with having to return the 942.

As for ebay, who are these people buying on ebay, if there really are any? Strikes me as interesting that we haven't seen anyone post here having paid $400 for a 921 or 942 and asking questions. Seriously, would many of us buy a used 921/942 if we didn't already have one? knowing ahead of time that HD LIL's are not possible, and it's HD lifespan is very limited long term, as is the reliability. For the same $400 you could likely turn your computer into a more reliable DVR


----------



## RockStrongo

Rogueone said:


> Rock, it's pretty simple. Anyone can get a 622 for $299, it doesn't matter if you have a 921/942 for that price, and you get to keep the 942 in your case. If you have no need for the 942 after getting the 622, just order after 4/1 and get the $200 rebate along with having to return the 942.


Yeah, I was confusing myself. I was thinking that existing customers HAD to swap to get the $299 deal. My bad.



> As for ebay, who are these people buying on ebay, if there really are any? Strikes me as interesting that we haven't seen anyone post here having paid $400 for a 921 or 942 and asking questions. Seriously, would many of us buy a used 921/942 if we didn't already have one? knowing ahead of time that HD LIL's are not possible, and it's HD lifespan is very limited long term, as is the reliability. For the same $400 you could likely turn your computer into a more reliable DVR


You can do a search on ebay for the 942, but I saw quite a few still selling. The 942s will still have some life for a while. Maybe someone wants one as a second receiver...who knows?


----------



## normang

RockStrongo said:


> Yeah, thats why I am going to sell mine on ebay. Looks like they are going for well over the $200 they are offering (twice as much or more).
> 
> Though, that price will lower some within the next couple weeks probably.


The big question is again, what is E* doing for people that buy your 921/942 from Ebay? Are they giving them SD only, with no HD other than OTA? Can they even give you the original 9.99 HD pack? Or HD Pack with 10 Voom for $15???


----------



## Stewart Vernon

IowaStateFan said:


> Not to be picky, but it may not be a better deal for the existing customer. New customer pays $299 cash. I pay $99 cash + my 921. If my 921 is worth more than $200 (in parts, for sale on E-Bay, etc.) then I'm not getting a better deal.


I tried to cover that thought with my "it might not be good enough" line... I realize that if the 921 or 942 has more value to you than $200, then certainly it isn't a better deal to accept only $200 in trade for it.

But since a new customer doesn't (by definition) have an existing receiver to trade... he must pay the full $299... so based on out-of-pocket expenses being able to trade something and only pay $99 looks better on the surface.

In any case, it at least isn't worse than what the new guys get since you have the option to keep your existing equipment and pay the full $299.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

IowaStateFan said:


> Okay, I hadn't considered the seasonal disconnect. That might be valid. I do think you are paying thru the nose to have the option to resell. In the case of the 622 you can lease it for $299 or buy it for $699. In 2 years you want to upgrade to the newest equipment. Again, it will cost you $299 to lease, or $699 to buy. If you bought you could sell your 622. You'd have to get $400 for to break even and you would've had your money tied up in equipment. I think it would be a stretch to think your equipment would retain 60% of its value. If you got some sort of discount on your programming because you owned (ie. the lessors paid a lease fee) then there may be some value in owning. As it is, I don't see it.


That's the way I've been thinking about it too...

$299 would get a new receiver on lease now... then even if it was a year from now and you spent another $299 to upgrade to bigger and better... that would be $598 spent ($100 less than the current retail price for the ViP622) and you would then have a newer receiver in your home, if such a thing exists.

Best case scenario is if they don't have a better model for 2 years and then you're in fat city having paid much less!

To my mind there doesn't seem to be much incentive in owning, and I would only do it as a last resort... like my 6000u since there never was a lease on it and at that time I wanted HD bad enough not to wait any longer.


----------



## BobaBird

Rogueone said:


> we owners should be allowed to keep what we paid for, or we should be given equal value in return. If they want me to return my owned box, I should own the 622 for the $99 upgrade fee, I shouldn't be leasing. That's bogus. Otherwise, since the 622 is a lease, the owned 921/942's should be the property of the owners.


Yes, where is the "like for like" upgrade offer? There is a vast difference in what is being offered to owners vs lessees. After April 1, those who now lease a 942 can get back $200 of their original $250 upgrade fee, or 80%. Those who bought a 921 or 942 get back $200 of their $999 (20%), $699 (29%) or $549 (36%). All are left without their 921 or 942 if they accept the rebate.


----------



## James Long

"Like for Like" is intended to describe 'HD DVR' for 'HD DVR' (as opposed to 'HD non-DVR' for 'HD DVR' or other combinations). Extending it to expect the same percentage discount for all prior owners based on various prior offers is a stretch.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

BobaBird said:


> Yes, where is the "like for like" upgrade offer? There is a vast difference in what is being offered to owners vs lessees. After April 1, those who now lease a 942 can get back $200 of their original $250 upgrade fee, or 80%. Those who bought a 921 or 942 get back $200 of their $999 (20%), $699 (29%) or $549 (36%). All are left without their 921 or 942 if they accept the rebate.


Hate to be blunt... but... so owners shouldn't trade in their owned units for the $200 rebate then. Pay $299 for a lease or don't... buy a new Vip622 or don't.

Maybe a year from now Dish will have a different offer available for people who own their receivers... or maybe not. While it would be nice, I don't see anywhere that it is a promise to give upgrades on owned units.

I was never offered any special deal on my owned 6000u and it cost every bit as much as the 921 or 942 receivers did when I bought it. But I'm not complaining... and I'm not made of money either.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

HDMe said:


> Hate to be blunt... but... so owners shouldn't trade in their owned units for the $200 rebate then. Pay $299 for a lease or don't... buy a new Vip622 or don't.
> 
> Maybe a year from now Dish will have a different offer available for people who own their receivers... or maybe not. While it would be nice, I don't see anywhere that it is a promise to give upgrades on owned units.
> 
> I was never offered any special deal on my owned 6000u and it cost every bit as much as the 921 or 942 receivers did when I bought it. But I'm not complaining... and I'm not made of money either.


Yeah but your 6000 worked as promised whereas the 921 NEVER DID AND STILL DOES NOT! That is what I think people are most upset about, at least me. I completely understand that technology gets updated very quickly and that the value of the once bleeding edge equipment drops quickly BUT the 921 has never, from day one, worked as promised and Dish knew this and gave up on it. By doing this they basically said they didn't care about us as customers. Now they offer us the same $200 rebate that a 942 owner, or even worse a leasee, can get. There is a large group of 921 owners that feel that they have been given the shaft. Dish should have offered us something more for having to put up with the POS 921.


----------



## Ron Barry

I also fall in the 921 group that has had some pain. I understand your argument Bill and it does have merit. Definitely a difference than HDMe with his 6000 in terms of customer satisfaction. The transition offer is a good offer, but it definitely is not an offer that will make everyone happy. I don't think any offer would, but that is another story. 

Each 921 user has their choices and I know that a lot of the 921 user base is upset and anything short of a nocost swap is not going far enough. Question the 921 user has to ask, what route do I want to take given what I know now and chalk it p as a bad decision. Well at least that is my take and how I went about making my decision. 

Oh... And remember we are in a support forum so watch the bashing. We have been leting it go because we are starting up and there is a lot of discussion of this type that needs to occur, but we are going to start enforcing rules now that we are starting to see some 622s appear in the field.


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## normang

Near as I can tell, the 921 does work to some degree and some features never came to life, and I think even those of us that made the decision to skip the 921 can feel some of the pain that owners of the 921 have had, but the perpetual whining over it accomplishes nothing.

As I see it, its time is up.. Get a 622 one way or another and call it a day.. Call it a expensive and bad decision and move on. Put the 921 to rest in some Dish graveyard.. I think everyone has bought something spendy that they've regretted buying at least once.. Mine was a car that I thought was really cool, and it cost more than it was worth just to try and get rid of it..


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## BobaBird

James Long said:


> "Like for Like" is intended to describe 'HD DVR' for 'HD DVR' (as opposed to 'HD non-DVR' for 'HD DVR' or other combinations). Extending it to expect the same percentage discount for all prior owners based on various prior offers is a stretch.


I know the quote was describing the hardware eligibility. I also keep hearing how everyone should be happy that existing subscribers can get the same offer as new ones when it is very clear as I have shown that owners do not get anywhere near the same end result as lessees whether they be new or existing. And I really don't think it's too much to ask that 921 users get some consideration/restitution for what we've been through.


----------



## Rogueone

I'd like to make it clear, I'm in no way UPSET. I'm simply stating that considering how good the deal being offered is, it would be better if owners were treated a little better than leasers (being allowed to keep the partially functional mpeg2 unit) seeing as the owner did have to shill out much more money, especially with the lack of a lease upgrade option for existing customers. 

But even if you accept the idea that there was no offer of a 942 lease to existing users to keep the numbers down until the 622 came out, which would have been on the drawing board at the same time, what about the 921 owners from Jan - Mar/Apr 04? This group was placing orders for 921's in Dec 03, had no clue there would be the kinds of issues there were, and were sold a box which has fallen quite a bit short of it's announced features and abilities. 

NBR was dropped from development in lue of working on the 942, USB ports were found to be defective and could not be activated, OTA issues for something like 9 months, 2 years later the boxes still need a hard reset every week or two. Both tuners do not always work, and on and on. I'm only saying it would have been nice to actually single out the one group that could NOT have made an informed decision. In late Jan 04 there wasn't enough information to know how many headaches might be expected. By summer, a person who was willing to do a little research would have known the issues and would have at least had enough information to know not to expect a properly fucntioning box. 

And really, the only stipulation I would like to be uber happy with the $99 upgrade is, let me hold onto my 921 for OTA purposes until HD LIL's are up. Then you can have my paperweight back  I just want to record 2 HD network channels at a time until the 622 can do the 3 I need right now 

I will say too, that originally I was really peaved because of the confusion about the lease fee. Now, if I've understood the tech chat, it's clear there isn't a lease fee for the 622 as a primary recvr. So now comes the really big question. I am a DHP sub, with a 501/301 leased, 921 owned. If I could upgrade the 501/301 for a 622, does that keep me on as a DHP? My current DHP is a 2 rcvr for builtin fee deal, so do I need to keep either the 501 or 301? The 622 can do the work of both so they aren't needed. Then I could keep the 921, but after HD LIL's are up, I wouldn't have a real need for it, so why pay $5 a month to keep the 921 as an extra rcvr? So much confusion  

if you consider how i'm billed now
--- DISH NETWORK DVR SERVICEFEE 0.0
--- DIGITAL HOME PLAN WITH AMERICA'S EVERYTHING PAK 2 99.99
--- RCVRS, LOCALS 0.0
--- ADDL RECEIVER ACCESS FEE 5.0
--- DOMINION PROGRAMMING 0.0
--- DISH NETWORK HD PACKAGE 9.99
I'm not even sure i can figure out what'll happen when I try to upgrade haha. And i don't trust any CSR now, and I'll be very apprehensive on 4/1 that they'll get it right


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## Stewart Vernon

I've read and understand complaints about the 921. I just treat that as a separate issue.

If I buy a car from a dealership, and it is a lemon... then I want my money back. If they don't do that and don't fix the problems... then I wouldn't buy another vehicle from them and I would go somewhere else.

To me that's sort-of how I see the 921 users... and the discussions I've seen regarding those receivers.

I consider that a whole different topic than the "what is a fair upgrade" discussion.


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## Rogueone

well, the real solution for 921 owners should have been to swap them out with 942's a year ago. why they heck did dish leave these anhors out there? wouldn't it have been better to eat the costs and put all programmers on other units rather than spending a LOT of money troubleshooting this dead weight? doh! But hey, like i said, I'm not upset. just brainstorming ways E* could have earned some Gold Stars for customer service  and the sorts of things I'd have thought of if I RAN E*. hehe


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## larrystotler

Rogueone said:


> here's what I don't get Larry, if you have an 811, and if you have the necessary dishes and switches and cabling, you could get a 211 free. So why are you complaining about the upgrade? What's wrong with free for a $399 receiver whose lease cost is "built-in" to the monthly subscription price regardless of whether you lease or not?


#1 - I OWN the 811. I can sell it if I want. The same should be true of my replacement.

#2 - The inability to seasonal disconnect that I have already mentioned.

#3 - The HIGHER price for HD. $5 more for it and I can't get the Digital/HD LiLs yet. MAYBE at that point, but till then I will stick with my antenna.

#4 - The fact that I have to lease it.

#5 - I would actually be more interested in getting the ViP622, excpet for the DVR feel and the additional outlet fee that I would be forced to pay because I do not have a home phone.


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## larrystotler

James Long said:


> "Like for Like" is intended to describe 'HD DVR' for 'HD DVR' (as opposed to 'HD non-DVR' for 'HD DVR' or other combinations). Extending it to expect the same percentage discount for all prior owners based on various prior offers is a stretch.


Yes, but like for like is also forcing those of us who do own to lease the replacement. That means we have to settle for the lease whether we want to or not IF we want to get the new HD stuff. Further, if I could upgrade me 811 to a ViP622 and do the 18 months, I could probably sell it for at least the $299 and receover my $$. E* HD-DVRs have managed to keep a good resale. The 921s have almost always gotten $500 and the 942s have gotten $375 and up on eBay for the last 2 weeks. That's a decent resale if you paid the $650 for it upfront.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

I am one that bought my first 921 in Dec 03 and then my second one in Mar 04. Both were in use prior to most of the issues becoming appearent. I actually never had any trouble with my 921s for these first few months. Then Dish started to try and fix some of the problems others were experiencing. At that point both 921s started to become more and more unstable with each so-called improved software download. I would LOVE to upgrade both of my 921s to 622s and put all the problems behind me BUT Dish will not allow me to. I can upgrade one for the $99 but if I want another one I have to purchase it for $700! They won't even let me pay the $299 like everyone else for the second one unless I wait a yet to be determined amount of time. This just doesn't make sense. IF they want the POS 921s out of the field so bad (and everything is pointing like they do want them out of our homes) then why will they not allow those of us with multiples upgrade all of them???? I have 2 921s, some other people here have 2 942s, or a 921 and a 942, etc. Why would we NOT want to upgrade them all to the 622??? They can have both my OWNED 921s IF they allow me to upgrade both of them to leased 622s eventhough Dish should have taken care of the owners a bit better then the leasees.


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## larrystotler

Eventually, they will have to replace both of them, but E* seems to forget about the fact that some subs who have 2 HD receivers will want to be able to get the new HD programming on both. Oh well.


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## Rogueone

larrystotler said:


> Yes, but like for like is also forcing those of us who do own to lease the replacement. That means we have to settle for the lease whether we want to or not IF we want to get the new HD stuff. Further, if I could upgrade me 811 to a ViP622 and do the 18 months, I could probably sell it for at least the $299 and receover my $$. E* HD-DVRs have managed to keep a good resale. The 921s have almost always gotten $500 and the 942s have gotten $375 and up on eBay for the last 2 weeks. That's a decent resale if you paid the $650 for it upfront.


ok, lets think this thru. You take the $299 upgrade vs buying a 622 outright.

leasing:
$299 upfront
all other fees the same (keep in mind, lease fee is built into the metal packs)
$199 upgrade to a newer DVR in say 3 years (no installation needed leads to lower upgrade cost)

total outlay is $498.

Buying:
$699 upfront
$100 parts for a new dish and some cabling (I'm gonna assume you have a viable switch, if not, add the cost of a switch)
all other fees should be the same (metal pack price isn't different for owning)
$599 upgrade price to buy the newer DVR in 3 years (initial retail price should drop for each successive model, just like seen with 921 to 942 t0 622)
-$450 from ebay, i expect this is high, but it's in line with what you think you'll get

Expenditures=$1398
Income=$450
total outlay= $948

that's a lot of additional outlay, and each time you upgrade thru "owning" versus leasing, as long as the lease fee is built in, the gap will increase always. it's unreasonable to assume their will be a point you could see your 3 year old unit for more than you could buy a new unit, hence you would ALWAYS loose money at the upgrade, regardless how much you get for the old unit. As long as Dish keeps the upgrade price for leasing reasonably low, you'll never make the money back. You're scenario works for a 2nd and 3rd leased receiver, eventually, over a long time where the $5 to $10 a month has a chance to build up. But a first or an only receiver situation, owning doesn't seem to make sense does it? except the case where you don't plan to have anything other than the HD pack itself?


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## IowaStateFan

larrystotler said:


> Eventually, they will have to replace both of them, but E* seems to forget about the fact that some subs who have 2 HD receivers will want to be able to get the new HD programming on both. Oh well.


I agree. E* hasn't completely thought this through. I suspect the number of dual HD DVR owners is pretty small and didn't make the radar screen during the upgrade planning discussions. They really should come up with a reasonable plan for you folks, and I believe they will. It just may take a little cage rattling to get them there. It shouldn't have to be that way, but you folks have to be a very small minority of E*'s 12 million subscribers.


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## Rogueone

those with multiple HD units just need to keep sending in inquiries as to when you'll be allowed to upgrade those "other" old rcvrs you have so they know you're there more directly  and I would sure think once this initial rush is over, they'd start letting you guys upgrade your other units until you reach that 4 tuner on lease limit.


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## Tom-Tx

WWS2 said:


> I am lost. ...
> 
> Walter
> Lafayette NJ
> 
> ps-I have the 622 sitting here for a week, but they say I cant have it installed until 2/22. Any way around that?


Yes, unplug the 942 and plug in the 622. They work the same and require the same lines. Just unplug one line at at time from the 942 and plug it into the same spot on the 622. Then call in and tell them to activate the 622 and cancel the install and see if they give you a $99 credit since you don't need the install.


----------



## RockStrongo

Tom-Tx said:


> Yes, unplug the 942 and plug in the 622. They work the same and require the same lines. Just unplug one line at at time from the 942 and plug it into the same spot on the 622. Then call in and tell them to activate the 622 and cancel the install and see if they give you a $99 credit since you don't need the install.


They told me on the phone that they had to install it due to changes. They didnt give me details.

I have a fully functional 942 though. So, will simply replacing it with the 622 and activatiing it work??

Or, is Dish going to install something on the sat or put a new LNB specifically for the 622??

Just curious.


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## Ron Barry

Depends Rock.. Do you get the sat for extra channels the 622 could bring you and the HD package you plan on getting. That could be the additional work required. In terms of connectivity. If you are swaping a 942 for a 622 it should be a straight up swap.


----------



## RockStrongo

Ron Barry said:


> Depends Rock.. Do you get the sat for extra channels the 622 could bring you and the HD package you plan on getting. That could be the additional work required. In terms of connectivity. If you are swaping a 942 for a 622 it should be a straight up swap.


Well, would my 622 be able to access everything that my current 942 can access?

Im just curious, because I am wanting to sell my 942 asap, but my install date is not until 4/1 (they said my area is swamped right now).

The 942 is my only receiver, so I would need a replacement.


----------



## BobaBird

James Long said:


> "Like for Like" is intended to describe 'HD DVR' for 'HD DVR' (as opposed to 'HD non-DVR' for 'HD DVR' or other combinations). Extending it to expect the same percentage discount for all prior owners based on various prior offers is a stretch.


How about the stated benefit of the current offer? As was explained on the Tech Forum, leasing is a way to get an expensive receiver _for a low up-front cost_. Starting April 1 all HD DVR users can upgrade to a 622 lease for a net cost of $99. On the surface that is entirely reasonable. The numbers are on the previous page, so I'll repeat how that effects the 4 classes of HD DVR users. To keep the upgrade price the same as that available for a 1st time HD DVR subscriber I'll apply the rebate to the price paid for the receiver being returned.

942 lease upgrade:
$299 + (original $250 - $200 rebate = $50 out of pocket for previous use), total $349

942 purchase, mostly for those Dish refused to lease to:
$299 + ($699 - $200 = $499 for previous use), total $798

921 purchase, because Dish made a business decision to not lease it
$299 + ($549 - $200 = $349 for previous use), total $648

921 purchase, early adopter
$299 + ($999 - $200 = $799 for previous use), total $1098

This does allow everyone to move to the 622 for just $99 more than whichever prior offer they accepted.

However, if you accept the offer, Dish is converting you from owning to leasing. This looks like a very good deal for those with a leased 942. For 921 and 942 owner, not so much. For them, the final up-front cost can be substantially more than the current 622 purchase price and when they leave Dish they won't then be able to recover any of that cost.

I prefer to own but see how leasing makes sense for receivers that have no use other than getting Dish programming. When you end your lease and return the 622 you will lose any saved programs and may not even have a way to access programs saved to an external drive (assuming of course that feature gets added).


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## Ron Barry

RockStrongo said:


> Well, would my 622 be able to access everything that my current 942 can access?
> 
> Im just curious, because I am wanting to sell my 942 asap, but my install date is not until 4/1 (they said my area is swamped right now).
> 
> The 942 is my only receiver, so I would need a replacement.


I would not see why not. The 622 an MPEG2/MPEG4 receiver so it should be able to get everything your 942 can receive and also the MPEG4 stuff too.


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## larrystotler

You are right JL, that was a fact I had forgotten to post. When I deactivated my D* account, I made sure my D*TiVo was loaded up. I can watch what I recorded anytime I want, I just have to plug it in and wait for it to boot, and I have 80 hours worth of recordings that I can watch. Or, I can pull the hard drive and re-use it in a computer, and has been mentioned before. Sure, it may appear that there are substantial savings to lease it right now, but they will eventually have to allow us that own to own the replacement for the same fee if we end up having to b***ch and threaten to disconnect. So, if I paid $350 for my 811, I could possibly get the ViP211 for $49 more, and then I might be able to get $300 for the ViP211 when I turn it off. Net loss - $100. If I lease it, net loss - $400.


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## James Long

larrystotler said:


> they will eventually have to allow us that own to own the replacement for the same fee if we end up having to b***ch and threaten to disconnect. So, if I paid $350 for my 811, I could possibly get the ViP211 for $49 more, and then I might be able to get $300 for the ViP211 when I turn it off. Net loss - $100. If I lease it, net loss - $400.


Are customers Lifetime or Viacom? I'm thinking Lifetime - and the poker player isn't bluffing - he does not HAVE TO allow ownership at any price. E* could go to a lease only model (as D* is doing).

I've stopped trying to keep track of the $$$ I put into satellite equipment. Dishes and switches and receivers that I'll never get much value from if sold. I bought them to fill a need - not as an investment. The ROI is watching TV - I don't expect the equipment to keep value.


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## normang

Assuming the primary purpose of buying all this equipment for watching "TV", HD or otherwise, where does the value of the hours you sit in front of it fit in? 

If a HD reciever costs $500, how many hours of watching it makes it worth the "investment" of $500 before you get that $500 worth out of it? Or is is only worth $500 if you can get $2-3-400 for it later when the next rev comes along..


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## larrystotler

James Long said:


> Are customers Lifetime or Viacom? I'm thinking Lifetime - and the poker player isn't bluffing - he does not HAVE TO allow ownership at any price. E* could go to a lease only model (as D* is doing).


Perhaps, but considering that both services have over 75% ownership, they could place themselves in the middle of a class action over it at some point. Also, you CAN still purchase a D* receiver after March 1st, but it will cost more since the dealers will have to charge more to recoup their costs. And, since E* is still allowing customers to buy their units, they are in the same boat. Either make all new receivers lease or not.



James Long said:


> I've stopped trying to keep track of the $$$ I put into satellite equipment. Dishes and switches and receivers that I'll never get much value from if sold. I bought them to fill a need - not as an investment. The ROI is watching TV - I don't expect the equipment to keep value.


And in some ways I agree. Doesn't mean I want to lose out completely if I can help it tho.


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## audiomaster

James Long said:


> Complain now or complain later. They ARE going to convert to MPEG4.
> 
> Every day that old HD receivers get a signal is another day that people believe they can avoid doing the upgrade forever. The new channels are for those who bit the bullet, swallowed their pride, and took the offer. Think of it as a reward.


Why couldn't Dish pull the hard drives from old units, stuff them in a small outboard box with a USB port to connect to the new units and sell them as additional storage capacity add ons? If you sent in a 921 or 942 you get a discount price on them.
I don't see a lot of Ebay sales as;
1 It's a buggy unit
2. It can't do MPEG4
3. It maybe can't be authorized for HD. I am surprised they are authorizing ANY units currently subscribed to other than the same user. Not if the aim is to get rid of them in the hardware stream.
4. Would it even work as an off air tuner if not subscribed?


----------



## UTFAN

larrystotler said:


> So far as I am concerned, I will NOT be upgrading at this point. Between the "lease" requirement and the increased cost, I will just let it "lose" the HD when it happens.


I cancelled my VOOM channels today. Other than occasionally watching RAVE, that was it. The fashion channels, KUNG FU HD, just aren't interesting.

ESPN HD, TNT-HD and local HD OTA (along with CBSHD-East)

stations are just fine for what we watch.

We went HD at our house two years ago, and have discovered that the bulk of what we watch is for the content, not because it's HD.

And having spent 1-thousand dollars for our 921, even though it was two years ago, I'm going to wait a while on the 622.

But paying for HD, simply because it's HD, just didn't make sense any more, at least for us.

(By the way, the CSR I talked with when cancelling had a definate Indian accent. Very nice and very courteous, but has DISH started to expand its outsourcing for customer service overseas?)


----------



## Bill R

UTFAN said:


> By the way, the CSR I talked with when cancelling had a definate Indian accent. Very nice and very courteous, but has DISH started to expand its outsourcing for customer service overseas?


A lot of people have been saying that they think that they have talked to a CSR in India but from what I have been told the company that DISH contracts with has their call centers in the Philippines. I think we should start asking the CSRs were they are. It would be nice to know where are calls are being answered.


----------



## socceteer

Ron Barry said:


> I would not see why not. The 622 an MPEG2/MPEG4 receiver so it should be able to get everything your 942 can receive and also the MPEG4 stuff too.


I was told that they had to change my Dish to a new design in order to receive the MPEG4 and therefore I would have to replace my 921 and my 811 ,,,IS this true..?

I know that for Direct TV users who upgrade to MPEG4 must install a new dish. At least that is what the sales man told me.


----------



## socceteer

Another question... Can I order the 622 installation today to replace my 921, and since they will not install it until April, will I be able to get the discount...?


----------



## Michael P

Forgive me if this has already been addressed. I skipped ahead from page 1 to page 5.

I own a 921, I do not currently subscribe to any HD programming. I'm watching on an analog TV. I bought the 921 to "future-proof" my E* system (my previous receivers were both 4000's).

If I take the "deal" I will switch from an owner to a lessee. It's my understanding that there is a $6 fee for lessee who does not sub to an HD pack. Since I ownthe 921 theyhave not charged me the $6 fee (if they did I'd dump dish after being a loyal customer for 9 years).

I'm better off keeping the 921 until I actually get an HD set. Hopefully E* will end up treating us like they did the "Dishplayer" owners (dumping the DVR fee for all the troubles we encountered). I know - fat chance.


----------



## Ron Barry

socceteer said:


> I was told that they had to change my Dish to a new design in order to receive the MPEG4 and therefore I would have to replace my 921 and my 811 ,,,IS this true..?
> 
> I know that for Direct TV users who upgrade to MPEG4 must install a new dish. At least that is what the sales man told me.


Well depends on your installation. I am sure the new dish they are referring to is the Dish1000. The bottom line is you need 129 or 61.5 to get the additional HD channels. For the soCal folk it is 129 that is the usually configuration.

Not sure about DirecTV.

To get MPEG4 channels, you must have a Vip-211 or a Vip-622.


----------



## Ron Barry

socceteer said:


> Another question... Can I order the 622 installation today to replace my 921, and since they will not install it until April, will I be able to get the discount...?


My understanding is you have to wait until April 1st to get the deal. My understanding is that it is the order date not the install date that the deal is tied to.


----------



## socceteer

Ron Barry said:


> My understanding is you have to wait until April 1st to get the deal. My understanding is that it is the order date not the install date that the deal is tied to.


Oh well...I guess I will have to wait....Thanks


----------



## socceteer

Ron Barry said:


> Well depends on your installation. I am sure the new dish they are referring to is the Dish1000. The bottom line is you need 129 or 61.5 to get the additional HD channels. For the soCal folk it is 129 that is the usually configuration.
> 
> Not sure about DirecTV.
> 
> To get MPEG4 channels, you must have a Vip-211 or a Vip-622.


Thanks for the information. I do have 61.5 but the DIsh is round, the Dish from Direct TV was oval and it had a second circular dish in front. So it was a 2 dish package.

Do you know if that is the same with Dish..?


----------



## MusicDan

James Long said:


> The older HD receivers cannot see the new HD channels - E* has them tagged in such a way that they won't be in the EPG (the same way HD channels don't show up on SD receivers - it's all in the tags). At some point the new channels will be encoded in a way that only the new receivers will be able to view.
> 
> The software for a 'grandfathered' MPEG2 HD receiver still watching the old HD packs is the same as the software for a MPEG2 HD receiver that has been replaced by a ViP model. Unless E* installs an off switch for HD, the old HD channels should still show in the guide.
> 
> BTW: I also doubt that E* will be recycling 921/942s back to customers as SD only devices. The 625 and ViP-622 are the future of E*. They are willing to let go of the past.


You've brought up an interesting point. I've heard that the 211 and 622 are likely to be the future standard receivers at E* since customers with these receivers have the option to subcribe to HD package or not. Additionally, reducing the number of models of receivers should certainly cut down on the number of technical headaches with all the different models currently out there.


----------



## Rogueone

Michael P said:


> Forgive me if this has already been addressed. I skipped ahead from page 1 to page 5.
> 
> I own a 921, I do not currently subscribe to any HD programming. I'm watching on an analog TV. I bought the 921 to "future-proof" my E* system (my previous receivers were both 4000's).
> 
> If I take the "deal" I will switch from an owner to a lessee. It's my understanding that there is a $6 fee for lessee who does not sub to an HD pack. Since I ownthe 921 theyhave not charged me the $6 fee (if they did I'd dump dish after being a loyal customer for 9 years).
> 
> I'm better off keeping the 921 until I actually get an HD set. Hopefully E* will end up treating us like they did the "Dishplayer" owners (dumping the DVR fee for all the troubles we encountered). I know - fat chance.


Michael, no reason for you to upgrade until you are ready to receive HD except for the limited time $200 rebate. yes you'll have extra charges if you upgrade now. something else to consider though, even with a normal TV, HD channels would look a bit better. but it sounds like you'd be better off not worrying about the upgrade for now.


----------



## Stew

One other question regarding the upgrade - I have the 942 which has worked flawlessly since I got it in October of last year. I had to sign an 18 month agreement. If I decide to upgrade, will I have to extend my agreement 18 months from the time I upgrade or will my original date remain the same?


----------



## larrystotler

Stew said:


> One other question regarding the upgrade - I have the 942 which has worked flawlessly since I got it in October of last year. I had to sign an 18 month agreement. If I decide to upgrade, will I have to extend my agreement 18 months from the time I upgrade or will my original date remain the same?


All upgrades will require an 18 month commit from the date of the upgrade activation. They do not tack it onto the end of the original commit.


----------



## larrystotler

Bill R said:


> I think we should start asking the CSRs were they are. It would be nice to know where are calls are being answered.


AFAIK, they are NOT supposed to tell you where they are located.


----------



## RockStrongo

larrystotler said:


> AFAIK, they are NOT supposed to tell you where they are located.


Ditto.

When my friend worked for Microsoft tech support here in Dallas, they told him to say he was in Redmond if asked.


----------



## borfhead

Rougeone, you say "Michael, no reason for you to upgrade until you are ready to receive HD except for the limited time $200 rebate"

I asked a CSR last I talked to them and the 200 rebate was not limited, according to her, it just starts April 1 and is good from then on. I haven't seen or heard anything else on this. Where did you hear or see that the rebate is for a limited time only?


----------



## larrystotler

Limited time meant wait for April 1st.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._


Current setup:

811
501
508

New setup:

622 - 2 set (dropped one)

Multiple calls to Dish and they keep telling me that I need to pay a $6 rental fee on top of the HD packages. I specifically asked about what was posted asking if this $6 was included in the price of the "HD" package and was told no by multiple CSR's who told me that I would have to pay a $5.98 "DVR" fee as well as a $6 "rental" fee on top of any $49/59/69 HD package.

So can you clarify this and maybe fix this post. This post is why I called Dish to switch. I understand that I have to eat the DVR fee as I was grandfathered into the 501/508 "free to date" issue but it just seem that $20 just for a few HD channels is a bit too much. I was ready to bite if this $20 included the $6 rental fee but $20+$6+5.98 ($31.95) for a few channels of HD seems a bit crazy IMHO.

Thanks

-JB


----------



## harsh

jrb531 said:


> New setup: 622 - 2 set (dropped one)


You'll be charged a DVR fee of $5.98. If you don't have a phone line connected, you'll be charged an additional fee.

I would suspect that the CSR wasn't listening when you said you were bailing on your existing equipment. You should be paying $4.02 less for hardware after the switch.


----------



## CABill

Would you still bite if you could keep the 811 or 508 on the account for a buck more than they are giving for the 622 alone? Then, the $6 lease isn't that different from the $5 extra receiver fee you now pay. CSR escalations report the same thing you were told - a DISH'n It Up lease is paid even if it is the only receiver on the account:

Bill,
If you were to replace your current receiver status with the VIP 622
receiver, then yes there would be a monthly lease fee charge. All of
our customers that choose to lease the 622 through us do have to pay the
additional monthly fee, even if it is their only unit active.
Thanks

Matt *****
CEO Escalations
Phone-720-514-****


----------



## jrb531

CABill said:


> Would you still bite if you could keep the 811 or 508 on the account for a buck more than they are giving for the 622 alone? Then, the $6 lease isn't that different from the $5 extra receiver fee you now pay. CSR escalations report the same thing you were told - a DISH'n It Up lease is paid even if it is the only receiver on the account:
> 
> Bill,
> If you were to replace your current receiver status with the VIP 622
> receiver, then yes there would be a monthly lease fee charge. All of
> our customers that choose to lease the 622 through us do have to pay the
> additional monthly fee, even if it is their only unit active.
> Thanks
> 
> Matt *****
> CEO Escalations
> Phone-720-514-****


I don't quite understand what you mean.

Current:

508
501 - $5
811 - $5

So I pay $10 on top of any package I take.

Future:

622 - $6 rental + 5.98 DVD fee

So I pay $12 on top of any "HD" package I take.

Sure I would jump for $2 - the issue is the $20 for HD programming.

I am required to take $20 monthy HD programming fee. When I saw in the first post in this thread that the $6 is included in this $20 HD pack I said to myself.... hmmm $14 for HD programming seems fair.

IMHO half the HD channels are still filler crap. Others may disagree but my budget for Pay TV is the $75 range and right now I would have to trade HBO/Max for HD if I wanted to keep my bill the same.

Hard to justify that expecially if this comes with an 18 month commit.

I'm still thinking about it but that extra $6, while it seems like such a small amount, may be a deal breaker for me. Maybe it's best to just drop the extra tuner and save $5 now - of course Dish will charge me $5 to "downgrade" lol

-JB

P.S. I want the 622 so I can watch TV on both my HD and SD set. Paying full price for HD and only being able to watch it on 1 set seems silly. 75% of my viewing is on my SD set in the bedroom. My HD set in the living room only gets used 25% of the time thus why I need the 622.


----------



## jrb531

harsh said:


> You'll be charged a DVR fee of $5.98. If you don't have a phone line connected, you'll be charged an additional fee.
> 
> I would suspect that the CSR wasn't listening when you said you were bailing on your existing equipment. You should be paying $4.02 less for hardware after the switch.


Well according to Cabil here you are incorrect - everyone pays $6. How I wish you were correct 

-JB

P.S. I was told that if I wanted to buy the 622 for $700 I would not have to pay this $6 rental ($6 x 12 = $72 per year - If I keep my 622 for 6 years I make out! ROTFL!)


----------



## harsh

jrb531 said:


> Well according to Cabil here you are incorrect - everyone pays $6. How I wish you were correct


I guess it depends on how you're currently set up. Those who are on the Digital Home Plan (and already pay an extra fee) don't have to pay the lease on the first receiver.

I've heard conflicting stories about maintaining DHP status when doing the upgrade.

New and returning customers have access to the Digital Home Advantage promotion through 4/30/06 which is similar, if not identical to the DHP.


----------



## jrb531

harsh said:


> I guess it depends on how you're currently set up. Those who are on the Digital Home Plan (and already pay an extra fee) don't have to pay the lease on the first receiver.
> 
> I've heard conflicting stories about maintaining DHP status when doing the upgrade.
> 
> New and returning customers have access to the Digital Home Advantage promotion through 4/30/06 which is similar, if not identical to the DHP.


I understand that but the opening post to this thread specifically stated that the $6 lease fee is a part of any "HD" Pack you take which, in fact, is incorrect.

I guess "technically" Dish is doing this because you can buy the 622 for $700 (and save $$$ after you have it for 5+ years ROTFL!) and not pay the $6 monthly fee but IMHO this is pretty slimely.

If "everyone" who gets a 622 "has" to subscribe to a "HD" pack "and" pay $6 a month then why not just add $6 to the cost of these HD packs?

We know why... they are trying to keep the cost of the packs down by nickle and diming us to death.

I have a better way *smiles*

How about this:

Dish Everything Pack for $5

but then add:

$50 Box Rental
$10 Remote Control Rental
$10 Service Charge
$20 for each additional box
$20 DVR fee

yadda yadda - Stop hiding costs Dish!

Oh well. I guess my old 501/508/811 will work for another year or two.

-JB


----------



## CABill

jrb531 said:


> I don't quite understand what you mean.
> 
> Current:
> 
> 508
> 501 - $5
> 811 - $5
> 
> So I pay $10 on top of any package I take.
> 
> Future:
> 
> 622 - $6 rental + 5.98 DVD fee
> 
> So I pay $12 on top of any "HD" package I take.


Not understanding what I mean isn't your fault. The 1st receiver is included in the base programming package when you purchase your receivers, or rent under the Digital Home Plan or Digital Home Advantage plans. That would allow you to keep the 508 you now have on the account and not pay anything for it. You can drop the 501 and 811 (-$10) and add the $6 lease and $5.98 DVR fee. That is the same price you were given for the 622 alone, but it includes a 508 receiver. All I meant was the $6 lease fee is easier to swallow when it is an "extra receiver" where you "expected" to pay more each month.

I can't say that you would pay the $6 as an ONLY receiver. That's what CSRs say, what Escalation CSRs say, and what billing does, at least to some people. There may be someone that leased a receiver under the DISH'n It Up promotion where it is their ONLY receiver that didn't get the $6 billed each month. If so, they haven't been "vocal" about it. The receiver you get under that DIU promotion comes with an agreement that is separate from any agreement you had with your current receivers. It has NO provision in it that would make it clear what happens if that receiver is the only one on an account. It just says you pay the $6 for any receiver you ADD to the account or if you replace an OWNED receiver. No mention of what happens when replacing a receiver you rented. No statement about the 1st receiver being included in the base package.

Until people get their bills with the new terms, and some of them have the DIU receiver as their ONLY receiver, it isn't clear. I'd like to believe the first post, but I honestly don't know what the situation is with a single DIU receiver.

BoisePaul - where does your single DIU receiver stand? Anybody else have a DIU promotion receiver as their ONLY receiver that has a bill for the next billing period?


----------



## CABill

harsh said:


> I guess it depends on how you're currently set up. Those who are on the Digital Home Plan (and already pay an extra fee) don't have to pay the lease on the first receiver.


That is also true of DHA rent/lease subscribers (and people that own their receiver) - they don't pay extra for the 1st receiver. The agreement to lease a ViP (actually, other receivers as well) is something that covers just that receiver. The extra fee for the DHP is the builtin extended warranty. A DHA sub would have to pay the $5.98 DHPP to get the benefits you get for $5 on the DHP.


----------



## harsh

CABill said:


> That would allow you to keep the 508 you now have on the account and not pay anything for it.


This is not the case the way I read it. When you lease an MPEG4 receiver, that receiver becomes the "first activated" or primary receiver. A leased 508 in combination with an MPEG4 receiver will cost $10/month ($5 lease, $5 additional receiver) no matter how you shuffle the cards.


----------



## CABill

If a new subscriber gets a ViP receiver, there is special language in the agreement that it will be treated as if it (they) were the oldest receiver on the account, but also very clearly states that the first would be included in the base programming package. The new sub agreement is on the DISH web site at http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/getDish/disclaimers/dishPVRplans/index.shtml but would NOT apply to a receiver obtained under the existing sub DIU promotion.

For new or good standing 6 month gone subscribers, there is clearly no charge for the 1st receiver, but it doesn't state that a ViP becomes the primary - just that it will be treated as first/oldest. If it really was the primary, you'd not need to treat it in any special way.

If you lease a receiver as an existing customer, the terms of the DHA or DHP agreement don't apply at all to the lease of that particular receiver. DISH doesn't supply that agreement on the web site, but you can read it here - http://members.iphouse.com/bert/dishnitup18.pdf
There is no mention in that agreement that the lease fee is "moved to the first/primary". Just that there is a $6 lease fee for a receiver you ADD or one where you replace a purchased receiver. If you replace a leased receiver? - dunno!

Seems like something they could post on the website and eliminate a lot of speculation and interpretation!


----------



## John W

James Long said:


> First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?
> The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box.


While my first invoice after the upgrade included a fee for all receivers, including a leased receiver fee for my new 211, our "main" receiver that replaced our 811-recent activity on the account shows that being adjusted back off effective the Monday after the Friday afternoon they received our 811 back via UPS.


----------



## larrystotler

Then that actually makes sense. They left the 811 as primary on your account and then when it was "officially" removed, the ViP became the primary receiver. Further, nowhere does it state that the HD receiever lease fee is part of the PD Pack. When you add a ViP receiver, it is "supposed" to become the primary receiver on your account, so that the lease fee is actually part of the package price. Technically, you bill should have changed to an extent depending on the following:

Whether you had the $5 Voom pack or not. The original HD pack was only $9.99, and the Voom channels were $5 more. So, that is either a $5-10 increase.
Whether the 622 is connected to a phone line continuously. Failure to do so results in a additional outlet fee of $5/month.
The addition of the DVR fee of $5.98/month


----------



## heavyharmonies

OP needs to be modified/clarified.

Anyone upgrading through the "Dishin' It UP" program *will* pay a monthly lease fee even on the first receiver.

The post as it is written is misleading...


----------



## James Long

The OP was the information given to us by E*. We can't change E*'s words unless they change their statement to us.


----------



## kmcnamara

Then can you guys get some clarification? If [email protected] is telling people that they must pay a lease fee in all configurations, everyone needs to know that.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> The OP was the information given to us by E*. We can't change E*'s words unless they change their statement to us.


Well you could leave the post as is but add a comment that this information in regard to the lease fee "may" be inaccurate.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who called based on this post. In fact, I bet a number of people went ahead with the upgrade and did not discover the error until they got their first bill.

-JB


----------



## Rogueone

John W said:


> While my first invoice after the upgrade included a fee for all receivers, including a leased receiver fee for my new 211, our "main" receiver that replaced our 811-recent activity on the account shows that being adjusted back off effective the Monday after the Friday afternoon they received our 811 back via UPS.


it seems to me, John's experience might be part of our confusion. How many people here checked their bill after installing the 622, and seeing the lease fee? How many have checked after their old receiver made it back to Dish? I would think Dish could expect a Class action suit if they are charging existing customers a "lease" fee for the 622 (which they have documents saying will be your first receiver in all cases), while not charging new users with a statement that the "Lease" fee for the primary or first receiver is built into the price. Since there is no price difference in new and existing customers, that would seem to be a lawsuit in waiting.

And since John's bill changed without his even having to complain, I'm willing to bet for now, until others post the opposite, that indeed it is the return of the old primary that is likely to impact this "fee". What gets funny is, what about people who own and are upgrading an owned unit they plan to sell on ebay?  Considering what we all experience with Dish, I would not and am not shocked there is a little confusion on their part in how to handle all of these scenarios right now.

and to mix things up more, I have DHP with a 501/301, then added a 921. I was told when i added the 921 that I had to keep both the 501/301 to stay a DHP customer. So I've been paying $5 a month for 2 years for that 301 which has not been used even once (and now, the smart card doesn't even read, only comes up with 0's for the id number). So when I asked about upgrading to the 622 2 weeks ago, I was told I could return the 501/301 while upgrading my 921, and I could still be on DHP as the 622 would replace the 501/301. And I was told I hadn't needed the 301 on there all this time! ugh i hate the confusion the csr's create! der! hopefully I'll figure out the truth come 4/1


----------



## jrb531

What does own or not own "old" equipment have to do with anything?


If I owned by equipment and now rent am I any different than someone who rented before and rent now?

Either the HD package includes the rental fee or it does not.

So far multiple calls to CSR's say I have to pay $6 on top of the HD package.

What "logic" could there be for new customers or customers who rented older equipment to not pay this $6 rental?

Seems that someone here has enough pull to get a straight answer from Dish once and for all. Me? If I have to talk to India one more time I'm going to pull my hair out!

-JB


----------



## tnsprin

James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> ...


Did we get a clarification on upgrading both 942/921 and a 811/6000. At the Charlie chat a couple months ago, Charlie implied that those upgrades could be combined.

Owner of both 2 921's and 2 6000's.


----------



## CABill

tnsprin said:


> At the Charlie chat a couple months ago, Charlie implied that those upgrades could be combined.
> Owner of both 2 921's and 2 6000's.


Actually, it was Jim, not Charlie that pressed the Peanut Gallery for the guy that had a 6000 could qualify for the 211 (eventhough it said 811) and then pressed on that he could ALSO get the $299 deal if he wanted HD at a 2nd location in the house. He got, and repeated, the OK to do both. But it wasn't an OK for 6000->211 for $49 AND 921->622 for $200 rebate. It would be two DIU receivers, which is a no-no. Seems like a good question for the next Chat - "How come we can't get what you said we could?"


----------



## Aliens

In my search I didn’t see anything about the added cost for the additional dish when you switch from the 942 to 622. Spoke to a rep that said I have to pay $99 for the install. Anyone getting any deals on this or are we stuck with the $99 for an install and $99 for a 622 upgrade?


----------



## James Long

The dish (and "everything needed") is supposed to be included in the $299 upgrade deal.
The $200 rebate for returning your 942 does not start until April 1st.


----------



## Rogueone

Aliens said:


> In my search I didn't see anything about the added cost for the additional dish when you switch from the 942 to 622. Spoke to a rep that said I have to pay $99 for the install. Anyone getting any deals on this or are we stuck with the $99 for an install and $99 for a 622 upgrade?


shot the CSR, both 622 deals state clearly (including all equipment needed) though maybe there is a chance a dish might be considered not "needed" if you were doing something unusual.


----------



## churoval

I just looked at my first bill after my 622 upgrade. Wow, what a convoluted mess. After staring at it for about 10 minutes to figure out what they charged me for, credited me for, charged me then credited me for, I found that, yes I'm getting the $6/month "Additional receiver access fee" even though the 622 is my only receiver. They also tried to tack on a $59.95 "dish upgrade fee". I called our Indian CSR friends and talked to Sam (who had a very thick accent and was kind of hard to understand). After he put me on hold to sort through my bill for 5 minutes, he kindly removed the $59.95 upgrade fee. I figured I'd ask him about the access fee while I had him on the phone and he confirmed that the access fee is charged even if the 622 is the only receiver.


----------



## IowaStateFan

churoval said:


> I figured I'd ask him about the access fee while I had him on the phone and he confirmed that the access fee is charged even if the 622 is the only receiver.


So our options are:
1. Purchase the 622 for $699 and pay the lease fee that is hidden in the programming package price, or
2. Lease the 622 for $299 and pay two lease fees - the hidden one, and the explicit access fee.
3. Play CSR roulette until we get one that will waive the explicit access fee on the leased receiver per the original post.
E* is really making this a whole lot more complicated than it needs to be


----------



## larrystotler

Guys, keep in mind that they are probably working out the kinks and the system, and what I would recommend is that you make sure that you keep copies of your bills so that when(if) they clarify this that you can get the credits that you deserve. While I realize that E* is no angel, they do generally make good on these things eventually.


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## zeekle

James Long said:


> The dish (and "everything needed") is supposed to be included in the $299 upgrade deal.
> The $200 rebate for returning your 942 does not start until April 1st.


To get the rebate do you have to wait till april 1st for the install or to call to order?


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## Eagles

zeekle said:


> To get the rebate do you have to wait till april 1st for the install or to call to order?


Call to order.


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## CABill

churoval said:


> I figured I'd ask him about the access fee while I had him on the phone and he confirmed that the access fee is charged even if the 622 is the only receiver.


Before you got the 622, were your receivers purchased or leased? Just reading the Residential agreement and the DISH'n It Up agreement, it does match being billed a rental fee. But that is different from an ACCESS fee in the agreements. The actual bill may use Access fee - I don't know. My latest bill has a Fee description where they added the "Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee (HD)" of $6. That ISN'T the "phone line on a dual tuner fee" since that is still $5 AFAIK.

Someone posted their DHP bill details and it didn't appear to have a $6 lease fee, but did have a $5 access fee. Someone on DHA can argue that the Lease fee should be waived on their 1st receiver, but some have been told they aren't on DHA any longer. If you drop your last purchased receiver to leave only a 622, you are less likely to get the 622 Lease Fee (or whatever name it appears as) waived.

What actually appeared on your bill? I don't have a 622, but my bill shows
Addl Receiver Access Fee $5
but that "Fee" isn't listed in the Fees description by that name. Where it gets VERY confusing is the Addl Outlet Prog Access fee. In a DHA agreement (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/getDish/disclaimers/dishPVRplans/index.shtml), it is a "phone line fee":
Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee: A $5.00 per month additional outlet programming access fee will be charged to your account for each dual tuner receiver (models 322, 522, 625, and ViP622 DVR) activated. This fee will be waived on a monthly basis ...

But the Residential Agreement (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/index.shtml) that would cover someone with purchased receivers, says:
DISH Network will charge you a monthly additional outlet programming access fee ("Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee") for each tuner activated on your account beyond the first.

That Residential agreement isn't at all current, but is the only thing DISH is providing. It certainly doesn't make sense to charge a fee for each tuner for a dual tuner receiver, but that's what it currently says. Under DHA, the 1st tuner of a dual tuner seems to fall into a Rental fee and it is only the 2nd tuner that has the Outlet fee that can be waived with a phone line connection. The agreement for a DISH'n It Up upgrade 622 is more like the DHA agreement. If you don't have a "Lease" fee, but only an "Access" fee, the bill COULD be saying you didn't have the phone line continuously connected during the period. Would have been pretty hard to do on the UPS truck.

I don't know if this hellps at all, but since you said "access" and not "Rental", it is possible that it is the "phone line" fee. A longshot?? If someone has a purchased xxx receiver as their primary and a DIU 622 added, does their bill list the 622 as "Rental fee" for $6 or also show Addl Rec Access for $6?


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## IowaStateFan

CABILL,

I think your post just goes to show what's wrong with E*'s billing system. They have so many different types of aggreements with different fee structures that it's nearly impossible for anyone to figure it out. To make matters worse the same fee can go by several different names - lease fee, rental fee, access fee. Some fees can be waived if the subscriber meets certain conditions (such as plugging the reciever into a phone line) and others can't. Some are included in the base programming package for some people. It's no surprise that you can play CSR roullette and get as many different answers as CSRs. E* would go a long way toward better customer service just by simplifying their fee structure.


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## 4HiMarks

Something I have not seen addressed here is the programming content on existing receivers. The Dishwire on my 921 was never activated, so I have no way to get that content off my 921 in HD format. If I have to turn my 921 in to get the $200 rebate. I will lose it all. Ordinary network shows I watch and delete, but there is some stuff I would like to keep forever. Is E* going to transfer that to a new 622 for me? I don't think so. Until they have a way to do it, I want to keep my 921. 

I paid $1000 for it, and it still works fine. If the Dishwire that was advertised as a "future upgrade" had ever happened, I could archive my content on D-VHS or HTPC (and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray someday), but as it is now, I am stuck. Why should I have to pay (or give up a "rebate" of) $200 just to keep my content? 

-Chris


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## normang

4HiMarks said:


> Something I have not seen addressed here is the programming content on existing receivers. The Dishwire on my 921 was never activated, so I have no way to get that content off my 921 in HD format. If I have to turn my 921 in to get the $200 rebate. I will lose it all. Ordinary network shows I watch and delete, but there is some stuff I would like to keep forever. Is E* going to transfer that to a new 622 for me? I don't think so. Until they have a way to do it, I want to keep my 921.
> 
> I paid $1000 for it, and it still works fine. If the Dishwire that was advertised as a "future upgrade" had ever happened, I could archive my content on D-VHS or HTPC (and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray someday), but as it is now, I am stuck. Why should I have to pay (or give up a "rebate" of) $200 just to keep my content?
> 
> -Chris


Because of the MPAA, and digital rights management, your never going to be able to archive anything you want. Unless people get together and tell congress to wake up and support fair use.

Otherwise recording devices other than those that encrpyt everything in sight, will be the only "temporary" place you can watch that favorite show, or you buy the recordings on DVD or which ever HD Disc is eventually the standard, which you won't be able to backup or copy either and may not even work on your computer..


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## 4HiMarks

normang said:


> Because of the MPAA, and digital rights management, your never going to be able to archive anything you want. Unless people get together and tell congress to wake up and support fair use.
> 
> Otherwise recording devices other than those that encrpyt everything in sight, will be the only "temporary" place you can watch that favorite show, or you buy the recordings on DVD or which ever HD Disc is eventually the standard, which you won't be able to backup or copy either and may not even work on your computer..


My point exactly. There is NO archive path. Except when I bought my 921, one was advertised. Now I didn't get all bent out of shape when Dishwire was discontinued like a lot of other people. I thought it was pretty much a long shot for any "future enhancement" to ever actually get implemented. But let's face it. 25 hours of HD content isn't very much. I'd love to be able to keep a lot more, but I can't. And now I have to give up the little bit I do have to get $200 off? Why do I have to turn in my 921? I should be able to choose what box(es) to trade in. I'd happily give up both my 501 and my legacy 2700 to get a 622. I'm not going to need them anyway, IF I CAN KEEP MY 921!

I only have one HDTV right now, but I plan on at least one more in the not too distant future, and a single TV HD DVR with an OTA tuner would be ideal for it. A second 622 would be overkill.

What is this $200 being called anyway? Is it a rebate, a buyback, an "early adopter discount" or what? I keep hearing "rebate", but I've never heard of a rebate that required you to turn in any equipment you own. OTOH, if it's a buyback, then the people who are leasing shouldn't be able to get it. Maybe they could have a third option for people who own their unit and want to keep it, like $100 off. I think that would be fair.

-Chris


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## normang

4HiMarks said:


> My point exactly. There is NO archive path. Except when I bought my 921, one was advertised. Now I didn't get all bent out of shape when Dishwire was discontinued like a lot of other people. I thought it was pretty much a long shot for any "future enhancement" to ever actually get implemented. But let's face it. 25 hours of HD content isn't very much. I'd love to be able to keep a lot more, but I can't. And now I have to give up the little bit I do have to get $200 off? Why do I have to turn in my 921? I should be able to choose what box(es) to trade in. I'd happily give up both my 501 and my legacy 2700 to get a 622. I'm not going to need them anyway, IF I CAN KEEP MY 921!
> 
> I only have one HDTV right now, but I plan on at least one more in the not too distant future, and a single TV HD DVR with an OTA tuner would be ideal for it. A second 622 would be overkill.
> 
> What is this $200 being called anyway? Is it a rebate, a buyback, an "early adopter discount" or what? I keep hearing "rebate", but I've never heard of a rebate that required you to turn in any equipment you own. OTOH, if it's a buyback, then the people who are leasing shouldn't be able to get it. Maybe they could have a third option for people who own their unit and want to keep it, like $100 off. I think that would be fair. -Chris


Chris..

I believe you can keep the 921, if you want to pay $299 If you give up the 921, its $99 after April 1st. The process is so confusing, but thats the way it goes..

I can understand why you and other early 921 adopter's and owners feel like your getting the short end, but at the same time, if you've had that 921 for up to a couple years and even though it may not be perfect, I am assuming that it recorded a large percentage of the shows you wanted to watch on a routine basis, what is that worth?

To me, usage counts towards to the value I get out of something I bought. If I spent a $1000 for something and it sits on a shelf, then I am not getting my money's worth, but if it gets used day in and day out, then I am.

I have a 942 I own. I plan to get the 622 and move the 942 and keep it for a while longer in another room, initially on an SD set, and eventually I'll upgrade it to some level of HD set.. That will cost me $299,

However if I elected to give up the 942, I could do it for $99. Now,I could think that because of the original value of the 942, I maybe losing a few $$, but I would still feel like I got my moneys worth because the of the usage I got from the 942.

However I will use my 942 for while longer before I change it for something else down the road because I don't mind the limitations for where I intend to use it.


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## scottchez

Do you have to sign an 18 month contract if you get a 622?

I have a 942 right now under the lease plan will they sign me for a new contract?

I cant remember, I thought there was something about 18 months.


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## icelite

I find this information interesting. I decided to call Dish tonight 03/6/06 to start the process of getting upgraded to the 622. After talking with the rep She told me that if I waited until April 1st that I would get the 200.00 rebate and still keep my 942 receiver. She looked at my account and said that since I owned the unit that would stupid if I had to return it. She assured me that in April I can upgrade for 99.00 and keep my 942 since I paid full price for it and own it.

Anyway I hope she was correct since she convinced me to wait until April to start the process.

Either way I am upgrading in April.



James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> *Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
> _Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._
> 
> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._


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## Ron Barry

icelite.... Lot of miss-information going around, but the post you read above was clarifcation provided from Dish on this issue to try and clarify the confusion and miss-information that is being relayed. 

April 1st is the date and yes to get the 200 dollar rebate you must turn in your 942 or 921. We have not heard anything to the contrary.


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## churoval

churoval said:


> They also tried to tack on a $59.95 "dish upgrade fee". I called our Indian CSR friends and talked to Sam (who had a very thick accent and was kind of hard to understand). After he put me on hold to sort through my bill for 5 minutes, he kindly removed the $59.95 upgrade fee.


After 5 days, my account still shows the dish upgrade fee and my amount due is still the same as it was before, so I called them back this morning to make sure it was actually removed. The CSR told me that the credit wouldn't happen until my NEXT bill, so effectively I would have to pay them $59.95 this month since I'm on autopay and they would credit it back next month. I told the CSR that that was a load of male bovine feces and talked to a supervisor who "promised" me that my account would be adjusted before they hit my credit card on the 17th. Guess I'll just have to keep my eye on it between now and then.


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## ken310

The 622 is also a dual tuner receiver, right? So unless your talking about using the 942 on a 3rd+ tv what good is it if you have a 622? A $600+ sd/dvr is a bit much plus I'm sure we would be charged a monthly dvr fee also.

Also if we buy a 622 is the hd package price that includes the lease adjusted or do we take it again?

___________________

942 
2x 510's
2x 4700's
3x 3700's
etc, etc, etc
5th dish 3/8/06
Sony 34" XBR
Sony STR-DE898+
Dish© 9+yrs


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## clapple

What is the deal if you want to upgrade from a single tuner SD DVR to a 622?


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## James Long

$299 to get a leased ViP-622 DVR and $25 if you return your old receiver.


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## dalucca

So you are saying if I have a 508 I can get a 622 for $25?


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## James Long

No ... give E* $299 and they will send you a ViP-622 (leased).
Give E* your old receiver and they will likely give you $25.


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## rockothomp

James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> *Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
> _Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._
> 
> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._


can I get a rebate with my 411?


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## James Long

rockothomp said:


> can I get a rebate with my 411?


No. The rebate will only be available to those returning a 921 or 942.


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## jrb531

James Long said:


> No ... give E* $299 and they will send you a ViP-622 (leased).
> Give E* your old receiver and they will likely give you $25.


If it did not cost $10-15 to ship and insure the old boxes it might be worth it.

-JB


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## Mikey

jrb531 said:


> If it did not cost $10-15 to ship and insure the old boxes it might be worth it.
> 
> -JB


Dish provides a prepaid UPS label with the box.


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## jrb531

Mikey said:


> Dish provides a prepaid UPS label with the box.


I might go for that if they pay for shipping.

I have a 501/508/811 and I'll take the $75

-JB


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## Randybes

If you want to replace two of your receivers what is the upfront cost (ignoring trade-ins) 299x2?


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## Rogueone

you might be able to get a 211 and a 622 on lease, so possibly $49 and $299 (no need for 2 install charges) . But you definitely can not, yet, do 2 622's. You can lease one and buy one ($649-699). possibly later in the year Dish might allow 2 622 leases, but right now the supply is too short.


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## agentsmith

I'm a newb here. I just signed up for E* basic 60, so I only have a 311 receiver. Does anyone know my eligibility for the $299 622 upgrade in April? Do you have to be a E* customer for a certain period of time? CSR at E* can't tell me since I wasn't "in the system" before March 1st. I have to wait until April befroe they can "See" what I'm eligible for. Any help would be appreciated

QUOTE=James Long]*Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
_In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._

*Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
_Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._

*First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
_The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._

*New and Existing Customers?*
_Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._

Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.

Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
_The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._[/QUOTE]


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## Rogueone

everyone, new or existing, can lease a 622 for $299. The 4/1 deal is for existing HD DVR users to upgrade to the 622 for $99, so it does not apply to you, and don't let the csr's try to tell you it does. If they tell you to wait for 4/1 to get the rebate, tell them to pay more attention to their own notices, as the rebate is "strictly" for HD DVR users with active 921 or 942 units. 

anyway, it doesn't really matter what you have, you should be able to order a 622 for $299, you haven't been a customer long enough to get a bad payment record


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## wford4

Why is there no rebate for the 811 .I would like to get the vip622.


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## harsh

wford4 said:


> Why is there no rebate for the 811 .I would like to get the vip622.


Because the 811 retailed for $350 and the other receivers, both full-featured DVRs with 250MB hard drives, were at least double that cost.


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## Rogueone

and because there is a deal for 811 users. You chose an 811 because you didn't want DVR, so the 211 replaces your 811, and if you need new equipment, you cost is only $49 and if you don't need anything, it's free. So you tell me, who gets the better deal? 

If you decide to "change" the type of programming you get, as in non-DVR for DVR, that is a change of service upgrade, not a like for like equipment update upgrade. 

The rebate is a like for like equipment update upgrade, not a services upgrade. Those getting the $200 rebate already had the full DVR HD service, the only change is they have to upgrade for the new HD channels. So it's an equipment update, not a service upgrade


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## Eagles

James Long said:


> No. The rebate will only be available to those returning a 921 or 942.


Will the rebate be held in escrow against our monthly bills, or will we actually get a check for $200.00 form Dish.


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## Eagles

James Long said:


> No. The rebate will only be available to those returning a 921 or 942.


Will the rebate be held in escrow against our monthly bills, or will we actually get a check for $200.00 form Dish?


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## dadrad99

I just tried to order the 622 lease promotion with Dish and got completely frustrated. I currently subscribe to the old HD package with my 811. I want to keep my 811 as an additional receiver and order the 622 lease with the Bronze package. Everything was going smoothly until they informed me that I would have to subscribe to the Bronze package now in order to get the install scheduled with the proper dish (1000) and lnb's, switches. Install would be a minimum of 21 days later. Since I am ordering the Bronze, my 811 would not be able to tune in any hd channel for now until I get the 622 installed.That means I would be without any HD until the install occurred (minimum 21 days, probably a lot longer). If I chose to wait until the install to switch to bronze, I would have to schedule 2 installs; the first for the 622 and then the second to get the right dish and switches! What a bunch of crap! Can anyone help me?


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## RockStrongo

Well, I scheduled my new 622 install in middle of february....they scheduled me for 4/1, but I still dont have the unit!!! Very frustrating so far. I called them and they said they dont have any tracking method and that I should reschedule.


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## RockStrongo

dadrad99 said:


> I just tried to order the 622 lease promotion with Dish and got completely frustrated. I currently subscribe to the old HD package with my 811. I want to keep my 811 as an additional receiver and order the 622 lease with the Bronze package. Everything was going smoothly until they informed me that I would have to subscribe to the Bronze package now in order to get the install scheduled with the proper dish (1000) and lnb's, switches. Install would be a minimum of 21 days later. Since I am ordering the Bronze, my 811 would not be able to tune in any hd channel for now until I get the 622 installed.That means I would be without any HD until the install occurred (minimum 21 days, probably a lot longer). If I chose to wait until the install to switch to bronze, I would have to schedule 2 installs; the first for the 622 and then the second to get the right dish and switches! What a bunch of crap! Can anyone help me?


I would think you could trade your 811 for the new 211 and have it done on the same day....i dont know though.

Are you sure your 811 wouldnt be able to get hd (at least what you are getting now)? Maybe it just wouldnt get the new MPEG4 channels.


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## IowaStateFan

dadrad99 said:


> Since I am ordering the Bronze, my 811 would not be able to tune in any hd channel for now until I get the 622 installed.That means I would be without any HD until the install occurred (minimum 21 days, probably a lot longer). If I chose to wait until the install to switch to bronze, I would have to schedule 2 installs; the first for the 622 and then the second to get the right dish and switches! What a bunch of crap! Can anyone help me?


Your 811 should continue to receive HD signals whether you are subscribed to Bronze or the old HD pack. Switching to Bronze just turns on the new MPEG4 stuff which (your 811 cannot receive). It shouldn't affect any of the MPEG2 stuff, unless Dish disables your 811. Personally, I'd be more concerned that they are forcing you to pay for programming that you can't receive for 3 weeks in order to order the upgrade.


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## dadrad99

Thanks for your replies. That's exactly what I think, I should be able to get the HD I had before on the 811, just not the mpeg4 channels. I will try again tonight and see what a different csr will tell me.


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## BigBill34

Bill R said:


> A lot of people have been saying that they think that they have talked to a CSR in India but from what I have been told the company that DISH contracts with has their call centers in the Philippines. I think we should start asking the CSRs were they are. It would be nice to know where are calls are being answered.


Way off the topic here, but...

I completely agree! I started with Dish back in 1998 and customer service was so much better, although you had to wait 15 minutes to have someone answer!

I am tired of calling customer service and having the CSR know nothing. Speaking of which, I called last night about HD locals and the CSR knew nothing about the recent upgrade!


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## BigBill34

Another interesting note...

I read on CNET while I was doing some more research, that Dish Network will be offering the ViP 211 to new customers for $49, while existing customers with the 811 will have to pay $98. wtf? Just another example of how Dish screws existing customers! Now I will probably shell out the $98 or $49 whatever it is that day I upgrade, but what is the exact upgrade cost?

From CNET...

Dish ViP 211 (HD tuner/receiver), $49 for new subscribers (includes dish and installation); $98 upgrade for those upgrading from the Dish 811

Dish ViP 622 (HDTV DVR), $299 ($200 rebate for those upgrading from the Dish 921 or 942, starting April 1, 2006)


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## normang

BigBill34 said:


> Another interesting note...
> 
> I read on CNET while I was doing some more research, that Dish Network will be offering the ViP 211 to new customers for $49, while existing customers with the 811 will have to pay $98. wtf? Just another example of how Dish screws existing customers! Now I will probably shell out the $98 or $49 whatever it is that day I upgrade, but what is the exact upgrade cost?
> 
> From CNET...
> 
> Dish ViP 211 (HD tuner/receiver), $49 for new subscribers (includes dish and installation); $98 upgrade for those upgrading from the Dish 811
> 
> Dish ViP 622 (HDTV DVR), $299 ($200 rebate for those upgrading from the Dish 921 or 942, starting April 1, 2006)


Where is the link? Searching CNET does not show this information anywhere..


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## khearrean

BigBill34 said:


> Another interesting note...
> 
> I read on CNET while I was doing some more research, that Dish Network will be offering the ViP 211 to new customers for $49, while existing customers with the 811 will have to pay $98. wtf? Just another example of how Dish screws existing customers! Now I will probably shell out the $98 or $49 whatever it is that day I upgrade, but what is the exact upgrade cost?
> 
> From CNET...
> 
> Dish ViP 211 (HD tuner/receiver), $49 for new subscribers (includes dish and installation); $98 upgrade for those upgrading from the Dish 811
> 
> Dish ViP 622 (HDTV DVR), $299 ($200 rebate for those upgrading from the Dish 921 or 942, starting April 1, 2006)


This seems to now be the case. Yesterday, I contacted a Dish CSR and was also told that to upgrade my 811 to a ViP 211, I would need to pay $98.00. I obviously turned the deal down. Why has this changed? Was there a time limit on the $49 upgrade deal?

Ken


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## CABill

I recall an expiration date of 30Apr for SOMETHING, but can't guarantee it was the ViP211 deadline. The ViP622 rebate is good through Aug.

Buy why do you assume something has changed? A CSR call? Call again to get different answers. Someone posting they read CNET said so? Why not sign on to your account at the DISH website and click Equipment Upgrades. At least for me, picking HD upgrades still shows $49 as the price for a ViP211:

DISH Network can come to your home and replace up to two of your current receivers OR add DishHD in another room of your home for pricing starting at $49.00! The receivers below are eligible for installation:

HD Single-Tuner Receiver for $49 (including installation & dish antenna) ​If an existing customer doesn't already subscribe to HD and wants a ViP211, the price is $98 - $49 for the receiver upgrade and $49 for the install. Someone that already subscribes to HD can have the receiver shipped to them for a straight swap with their existing receiver. No new dish, switch, cable, ... needed and the $49 for the install can be waived leaving a $49 cost for an existing sub. If you presently use 61.5 but are in a DMA with HD locals on 129, you probably still need the $49 install. I've no idea if DISH would still waive it there. It is pretty easy to check Equipment Upgrades online (assumes you've setup an account) and if that says you can get it for $49, you could tell the CSR that and they could check further.

Afterthought: I think they waive the $49 for the receiver upgrade and not the $49 for the install if you have HD already. I'd have to watch an old chat to get that right.


----------



## BigBill34

normang said:


> Where is the link? Searching CNET does not show this information anywhere..


I couldn't post a link as I had under 5 posts at the time. I will post it here...

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-3.html?tag=lnav

Bill


----------



## BigBill34

CABill said:


> I recall an expiration date of 30Apr for SOMETHING, but can't guarantee it was the ViP211 deadline. The ViP622 rebate is good through Aug.
> 
> Buy why do you assume something has changed? A CSR call? Call again to get different answers. Someone posting they read CNET said so? Why not sign on to your account at the DISH website and click Equipment Upgrades. At least for me, picking HD upgrades still shows $49 as the price for a ViP211:
> 
> DISH Network can come to your home and replace up to two of your current receivers OR add DishHD in another room of your home for pricing starting at $49.00! The receivers below are eligible for installation:
> 
> HD Single-Tuner Receiver for $49 (including installation & dish antenna) ​If an existing customer doesn't already subscribe to HD and wants a ViP211, the price is $98 - $49 for the receiver upgrade and $49 for the install. Someone that already subscribes to HD can have the receiver shipped to them for a straight swap with their existing receiver. No new dish, switch, cable, ... needed and the $49 for the install can be waived leaving a $49 cost for an existing sub. If you presently use 61.5 but are in a DMA with HD locals on 129, you probably still need the $49 install. I've no idea if DISH would still waive it there. It is pretty easy to check Equipment Upgrades online (assumes you've setup an account) and if that says you can get it for $49, you could tell the CSR that and they could check further.
> 
> Afterthought: I think they waive the $49 for the receiver upgrade and not the $49 for the install if you have HD already. I'd have to watch an old chat to get that right.


I posted the link from CNET, and I am definitely not a true source by any means. I too call Dish and get the same (or different) status each time! And yes, I agree that to find out the true version, to check out the website. Only problem with that is if you check out the website and then call customer service to make the changes, they have no clue what you are talking about!

I currently subscribe, obviously with the 811, to the HD channels, along with the Everything Pak, locals, and all movies, but not the new HD packages with the new receivers. I really hate having to call customer service to get a straight answer though...which is why I come here!

My $.02!

Bill


----------



## CABill

The CNET article says:

Note: Pricing and other info were current as of this article's publication date; call DirecTV or Dish Network for the latest information. Both providers also offer options to lease rather than buy the boxes

and the article was updated on 15Feb. That sort of makes it not indicate a change at DISH. I'd have to agree with BigBill34 though about convincing a CSR. For all we know, they use CNET to get their info.


----------



## normang

BigBill34 said:


> I couldn't post a link as I had under 5 posts at the time. I will post it here...
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-3.html?tag=lnav
> 
> Bill


That information is 6 weeks old in that article and its debatable whether they had it right in the first place.. It also says that the $49 price was for "new" customers.

However, Dish is the ultimate source, and unfortunately the information can vary to some degree depending on the CSR you speak to.

I find it interesting that their search engine also returned no hits on various keywords on that article as well.


----------



## BigBill34

normang said:


> That information is 6 weeks old in that article and its debatable whether they had it right in the first place.. It also says that the $49 price was for "new" customers.
> 
> However, Dish is the ultimate source, and unfortunately the information can vary to some degree depending on the CSR you speak to.
> 
> I find it interesting that their search engine also returned no hits on various keywords on that article as well.


Doh! I guess I should've checked the date on the article. My bad!  I was just trying to find out more about this receiver and the upgrades.

Bill


----------



## koralis

This whole mess is so convoluted I'm inclined to simply skip the upgrade. I'm just getting annoyed now. 

Dish needs a specialist that can look up your account and send you a quote for the upgrade via email (that is binding.) It's quite obvious that their CSRs aren't to be trusted, and the info we've been getting from various sources is contradictory and confusing.


----------



## normang

koralis said:


> This whole mess is so convoluted I'm inclined to simply skip the upgrade. I'm just getting annoyed now.
> 
> Dish needs a specialist that can look up your account and send you a quote for the upgrade via email (that is binding.) It's quite obvious that their CSRs aren't to be trusted, and the info we've been getting from various sources is contradictory and confusing.


The Dish Promo deals have always been confusing as are all the details and fine print of the various programs in which you can get equipment and service.

As far as the CSR's, its not a trust issue, its a training issue, and because each customer has had some unique deal or setup, I am not sure any one CSR can properly accomodate everyone equally, it would be nice, but I don't think its feasible.

The 622 deals are pretty straight forward if you have a 921/942 and want trade up to a 622. Just call in and order your upgrade.. I personally intend to wait a few weeks for the rush to end, and for perhaps another code update to see how that works out for the 622's stability.. my 942 for the most part has been really good.


----------



## EasyRizer

James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> *Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
> _Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._
> 
> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._


I've been watching the 921 debacle for a long time, and have finally decided to upgrade to the 622 The deal seem great to effectively upgrade for $99.00, but the new fees are going to kill me! They are certainly making money on the changeover! According to the CSR these are my old, and new fees, simply because I'm switching from a 921 to a 622.
Previously:
Top 120 $44.99 (includes local)
HBO/Cinimax $20.00
DVR fees $5.98
HD pack $9.99
Total 80.96
New fees:

HD 120 (silver) 64.99 (includes local)
HBO/Cinimax $20.00
DVR fees $5.98
Lease fees $6.00
Total $96.97

So they will be making $16.07 more a month off of me for a contract of 18 months for a total of $288.18. You are forced to pay for improvements in programing you don't want, because you can't get the old programing on the 622. The 622 may be a better unit but I object to being held hostage in order to get it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

EasyRizer said:


> You are forced to pay for improvements in programing you don't want, because you can't get the old programing on the 622. The 622 may be a better unit but I object to being held hostage in order to get it.


Dumb question time...

If you don't want the new programming, then why are you upgrading to the ViP622? The whole reason to upgrade would be to get the new programming.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Dish is adding the newer fees , I believe, to push everyone to the platinum pack to escape most of them. The platinum pack if the better deal with regards to programming . IF you are going to pay 96.97 to get the sliver pack ,you might as well pay 99.99 to get the platinum pack and get more programming. Which would you rather pay for more fees or more programming?


----------



## EasyRizer

HDMe said:


> Dumb question time...
> 
> If you don't want the new programming, then why are you upgrading to the ViP622? The whole reason to upgrade would be to get the new programming.


Scan the board for 921 problems and you'll understand. The most recent ones for me are the nightly "need for immediate download" that wipes out one of my DVR timers. That an the MPEG4 abilities of the 622, versus the 921. Sooner or later the 921 will be obsolete, if it isn't already. Judging by the CSRs comments a lot of people are jumping the 921 ship that haven't been able to till now because of the $700-$1000 investment they made.


----------



## EasyRizer

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Dish is adding the newer fees , I believe, to push everyone to the platinum pack to escape most of them. The platinum pack if the better deal with regards to programming . IF you are going to pay 96.97 to get the sliver pack ,you might as well pay 99.99 to get the platinum pack and get more programming. Which would you rather pay for more fees or more programming?


The dish HD platinum pack doesn't include HBO/cinemax, DVR fees or Lease fees so the final ACTUAL cost of the platinum pack (according to the web site)is
Plantinum HD $99.99
HBO Cinemax $20.00
DVR fees $6.00
622 lease fees $5.98
Total:$131.97

Such a deal.:nono2:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

EasyRizer said:


> Scan the board for 921 problems and you'll understand. The most recent ones for me are the nightly "need for immediate download" that wipes out one of my DVR timers. That an the MPEG4 abilities of the 622, versus the 921. Sooner or later the 921 will be obsolete, if it isn't already. Judging by the CSRs comments a lot of people are jumping the 921 ship that haven't been able to till now because of the $700-$1000 investment they made.


I hadn't thought about the possibility of problems with the 921 being a motivation... I could understand that.

MPEG4, however, is only being used currently for the new programming which you said you weren't interested in... so you'll gain no advantage there unless you decided you wanted those channels after all.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

EasyRizer said:


> The dish HD platinum pack doesn't include HBO/cinemax, DVR fees or Lease fees so the final ACTUAL cost of the platinum pack (according to the web site)is
> Plantinum HD $99.99
> HBO Cinemax $20.00
> DVR fees $6.00
> 622 lease fees $5.98
> Total:$131.97
> 
> Such a deal.:nono2:


The Platinum HD package is the same as the AT Everything package + all the HD.... so it absolutely includes HBO/MAX as well as SHO and all the other movie channels. DVR fees are also waived for subscribers just as they are with the Everything package.

You must be mis-reading the Web site.


----------



## SaltiDawg

EasyRizer said:


> The dish HD platinum pack doesn't include HBO/cinemax, ...
> 
> Such a deal.:nono2:


I believe you, knd sir, are mistaken. :lol:


----------



## Mike D-CO5

I have the platinum hd pack and I am paying 104.99 for my programming plus locals. I also have another 622 hd receiver and I own both receivers and my bill runs as following:

Platinum hd pack w locals 104.99
additional hd receiver 6.00
Dish Flix magazine 1.95
L.A. WB Ktla 1.50
------------------------------------
$114.44 before taxes

This includes ALL the movie packs like Hbo/Showtime/Starz/Cinemax and all the top 180 channels or America's Everything Pack. I also get all the hd channels like the main hd pack on 110 satellite and all the Voom channels (15) , including the mpeg 4 ones. I have had the pack since February and I 've had America's Everything pack since it first came out back in 99 . Trust me, I have all the channels including the premium movie channels.


----------



## billcg

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I have the platinum hd pack and I am paying 104.99 for my programming plus locals. I also have another 622 hd receiver and I own both receivers and my bill runs as following:
> 
> Platinum hd pack w locals 104.99
> additional hd receiver 6.00
> Dish Flix magazine 1.95
> L.A. WB Ktla 1.50
> ------------------------------------
> $114.44 before taxes
> 
> This includes ALL the movie packs like Hbo/Showtime/Starz/Cinemax and all the top 180 channels or America's Everything Pack. I also get all the hd channels like the main hd pack on 110 satellite and all the Voom channels (15) , including the mpeg 4 ones. I have had the pack since February and I 've had America's Everything pack since it first came out back in 99 . Trust me, I have all the channels including the premium movie channels.


What is "L.A. WB Ktla 1.50) ?????


----------



## Rogueone

obviously it's the LA WB station KTLA  would seem he's paying for that superstation extra in addition to his own locals


----------



## RockStrongo

RockStrongo said:


> Well, I scheduled my new 622 install in middle of february....they scheduled me for 4/1, but I still dont have the unit!!! Very frustrating so far. I called them and they said they dont have any tracking method and that I should reschedule.


Well, I got my 622 2 days before my install on 4/1...I had my install and Im all set up....Question though....are they supposed to charge state/local taxes and fees on the $299 upgrade fee?? My bill is about $25 more than normal this month and according to the CSR its due to taxes.


----------



## Rogueone

i wouldn't think so. that $299 isn't a service payment, it's an equipment fee. Maybe sales tax though?


----------



## RockStrongo

Rogueone said:


> i wouldn't think so. that $299 isn't a service payment, it's an equipment fee. Maybe sales tax though?


Well, there shouldnt be sales tax since they didnt sell it to me 

I have no idea....I called a CSR (in india) and she didnt know....she kept checking with her supervisor, but he didnt know either. Go figure.


----------



## James Long

It is a service upgrade fee, and in some states services are taxed as purchases.

There are monthly fees that are affected by getting a ViP Reciever. The difference between the old HD Pack or the old HD Pack plus Voom upgraded to the new DishHD packages can add a few dollars per month. The DVR fee for a 622 is added as well (unless you have DishHD Platinum). If these are new to you then your first bill will have a partial month plus the next full month of each of these charges. A certain sticker shock.


----------



## RockStrongo

James Long said:


> It is a service upgrade fee, and in some states services are taxed as purchases.
> 
> There are monthly fees that are affected by getting a ViP Reciever. The difference between the old HD Pack or the old HD Pack plus Voom upgraded to the new DishHD packages can add a few dollars per month. The DVR fee for a 622 is added as well (unless you have DishHD Platinum). If these are new to you then your first bill will have a partial month plus the next full month of each of these charges. A certain sticker shock.


Well, the CSR told me that my new charges included $25.xx for state/local taxes....Im assuming that they were from the $299.

As for the package pricing, mine was supposed to go up about $5-10 only according to the CSR...ill see what my statement says.

One thing that I am pissed about is the statements. The went ahead and added the new charges to my account and its due on 4/8, BUT my current statement doesnt show that!!

IMO, they should not be able to make me pay for something until I see a statement. So, I think these new charges should not take effect until next bill. I dont like paying for something when I cannot see it in my statement.

Trying to get a CSR to explain all this to me was ridiculously difficult.


----------



## RockStrongo

Does the 622 come with an HDMI cable? Mine did not. I used my existing cable. I could have sworn that the 942 came with one.


----------



## CABill

My 942 came with HDMI (had to connect two HDMI-DVI sections together). It also came with component cables, TOSLink, RCA composite, and even some coax for the supplied separator.


----------



## RockStrongo

CABill said:


> My 942 came with HDMI (had to connect two HDMI-DVI sections together). It also came with component cables, TOSLink, RCA composite, and even some coax for the supplied separator.


Yeah, mine did too, but I didnt see any HDMI, component or HDMI>DVI in the 622 box. Anyone else notice this?


----------



## Rogueone

lots of people have complained about a lack of cables with the 622. it just doesn't make sense that dish has been including these on the older boxes but not now. almost makes me wonder if they figure those with a 942 already have the hdmi cable so no need to send another one  doh


----------



## ebaltz

Rogueone said:


> lots of people have complained about a lack of cables with the 622. it just doesn't make sense that dish has been including these on the older boxes but not now. almost makes me wonder if they figure those with a 942 already have the hdmi cable so no need to send another one  doh


The least they could do is give me the DVI to HDMI convertor, at least to those who ask for it.


----------



## DCDeac

Just signed up for the deal. 

I had the second-to-highest package with locals, voom, HBO, showtime, etc. 

I switched to platinum HD, now will get more channels and ALL the movie channels, and my bill is 20 cents more per month.

I think if you were middle/lower tier, it's a little more expensive, but if you were at the $100 mark, it's actually a really good deal.


----------



## SaltiDawg

RockStrongo said:


> Yeah, mine did too, but I didnt see any HDMI, component or HDMI>DVI in the 622 box. Anyone else notice this?


I would assume if you are returning your 942 you will have that cable for your 622.


----------



## RockStrongo

SaltiDawg said:


> I would assume if you are returning your 942 you will have that cable for your 622.


Im not returning it. They seemed to have assumed that too.

Luckily, I had an extra one...but it still sucks.


----------



## EasyRizer

HDMe said:


> The Platinum HD package is the same as the AT Everything package + all the HD.... so it absolutely includes HBO/MAX as well as SHO and all the other movie channels. DVR fees are also waived for subscribers just as they are with the Everything package.
> 
> You must be mis-reading the Web site.


Mea Culpa. Mea Mega Culpa

I just got off the phone with dish, and I'm sure glad I have this sites info to do battle with the CSRs. Before I thought my charges would be $131.95. for Silver plus HBO and locals. but after having a supervisor double check things, the pricing went down to $99.99 for the every thing pack minus the locals channells (I get them all OTA anyway). Had to ask for a supervisor because the Csr wanted to charge me an extra $5.00 a month for an old DVR reciever that I had never hooked up. Records showed it had been disconnected back in Jan 2004. So now instead of:
Silver HD: 59.99
HBO?CINEMAX: 20.00
Locals: $5.00
DVR fee:6.00
Lease fee: 6.00
Total:$97.00

I Pay only 99.99 total. All the extra fees just went away. At least untill I call Dish again. I'll probably get yet another pricing.


----------



## mlsmith17

I upgraded recently from a 6000. I paid the full $299 of course and understand I am leasing the 622. Why did they send me an empty box to return my 6000? I was under the impression I was goin to keep the 6000 since I paid the full $299 to upgrade. I was not leasing the 6000. Any ideas?


----------



## chadh

mlsmith17 said:


> I upgraded recently from a 6000. I paid the full $299 of course and understand I am leasing the 622. Why did they send me an empty box to return my 6000? I was under the impression I was goin to keep the 6000 since I paid the full $299 to upgrade. I was not leasing the 6000. Any ideas?


I think its just an automatic thing that an empty box gets sent out. I'm upgrading from a 6000 and got an empty box also. Just think of it as a nice box to use if you decide to sell your 6000 on eBay.

Chad


----------



## jimb

chadh said:


> I think its just an automatic thing that an empty box gets sent out. I'm upgrading from a 6000 and got an empty box also. Just think of it as a nice box to use if you decide to sell your 6000 on eBay.
> 
> Chad


I did the upgrade with my 6000, no box was sent to me.


----------



## MichaelJ

There seems to be some confusion on the lease fees. I called to upgrade from my 921 to a 622 and was told the following monthly costs would apply:

HD Bronze $49.99
Locals $5.00
DVR Fee $5.98
LEASE FEE $6.00

I was also told the lease fees apply to a new or existing customer.
I also called as a new customer and was told the lease fees do not apply! Which is it?



James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> *Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
> _Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._
> 
> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._


----------



## RockStrongo

MichaelJ said:


> There seems to be some confusion on the lease fees. I called to upgrade from my 921 to a 622 and was told the following monthly costs would apply:
> 
> HD Bronze $49.99
> Locals $5.00
> DVR Fee $5.98
> LEASE FEE $6.00
> 
> I was also told the lease fees apply to a new or existing customer.
> I also called as a new customer and was told the lease fees do not apply! Which is it?


Im curious too...Im an existing customer....I was told by a rep before I upgraded that I wouldnt be charged the $6 lease fee if I subscribed to a metal package.

Now, they are charging me. I called and the rep told me that I was misinformed and there is nothing she can do about it.

Was this specifically stated in the Charlie Chat??


----------



## EasyRizer

RockStrongo said:


> Im curious too...Im an existing customer....I was told by a rep before I upgraded that I wouldnt be charged the $6 lease fee if I subscribed to a metal package.
> 
> Now, they are charging me. I called and the rep told me that I was misinformed and there is nothing she can do about it.
> 
> Was this specifically stated in the Charlie Chat??


I just got off the phone with a CSR who basically told me the same thing. I have the platinum "everything" pack. and on the way to choosing that program was given 3 different pricing itemizations. The reason I chose the platinum, was I was told my fees would be 99.99 or 104.99 with locals. Now I'm told after adding the locals that my fees are 109.99. I asked where on the web site all the fees were listed, and she pointed me to the private residential agreement link at the bottom of every page. That link mentioned DVR fees and Lease fees, as well as second receiver fees. When I asked her where it states what fees are waved for the platinmum HD pack, she couldn't point out anywhere it was written down, stating that the "waved fees" were arbitrary on the part of dish, and subject to changing at any time. You know they could still put that information in somewhere (what fees are waved) with a disclaimer attatched, but it seems they have more invested in keeping us in the dark. Besides every time you call a live CSR to change your programing, its yet another $5.00 fee.


----------



## kmcnamara

The 1st post in this thread needs to be updated to indicate that the first leased receiver still incurs the $6 lease fee for an existing customer. It still reads that the lease fee is included in programming (which we now know isn't the case).


----------



## James Long

The initial post reflects what E* told us. We are still trying to track down the difference between what we were told and what so many have seen on their bills.


----------



## jaydude

I originally ordered a 924 which was installed on 3/2/06. after installing, HD was not available on it. after my installer argued with DISH for about a 1/2 an hour I was informed that the 924 was no longer being used for HD. So for 53.00 i had a 924 for one night which was swapped out for a 411 and 311 the next day, for another 80 bucks. No choice if I wanted HD. Now, since I don't have the 924/dvr comb I am not elligible for upgrade deal. So i get to pay another 299 to get what I should have had to begin with (HD/DVR) with a dish 1000 added versus 500 that was installed.
bit of a drag.

:eek2:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jaydude said:


> I originally ordered a 924 which was installed on 3/2/06. after installing, HD was not available on it. after my installer argued with DISH for about a 1/2 an hour I was informed that the 924 was no longer being used for HD. So for 53.00 i had a 924 for one night which was swapped out for a 411 and 311 the next day, for another 80 bucks. No choice if I wanted HD. Now, since I don't have the 924/dvr comb I am not elligible for upgrade deal. So i get to pay another 299 to get what I should have had to begin with (HD/DVR) with a dish 1000 added versus 500 that was installed.
> bit of a drag.
> 
> :eek2:


Where did you buy your 942 from? I'm guessing not from Dish if you just bought it recently.


----------



## Turbohawk

Stevious said:


> Not a good deal. If E* had granted existing customers the ability to lease 942s, it would be a different story. We (existing customers) were given no other option than to plunk down the $600+ to own.
> 
> We can try our luck selling a crippled receiver on ebay which won't work with all Dish HD programming, or take a $400+$99 loss. Or miss out on the new and local HD channels indefinitely. My conscience won't let me sell the 942 to some poor unsuspecting sucker on ebay, so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
> 
> No matter which way fanboys slice it, we 942 owners got screwed. Big time.


Man, I've said it time and time again (here and on other forums) that you're only begging for a thorough screwin' when you're willing to plop down hundreds of bucks so that you have the _privelege_ of using their service.

The way it _should_ work is that they *GIVE ABSOLUTELY FREE* the customer the equipment that is required to access their service. Just like the cable company has had to do all these years (and still do). The fact that the cable co's have been charging extra monthly fees for their PVR's is understandable since it is considered an upgrade to their basic service. But they don't *SELL* you the unit and then _also charge you a monthly!!!_ like the satellite guys do...

Problem is, all you techie wannabe's have screwed not only yourselves but every other customer with your willingness to pay big bucks to have the newest toy.

I have no sympathy for your situation. You created it. And you ruined my chances of getting an HD PVR for free anytime in the near future...as well as yours, of course.

I'm not attacking you, but rather giving you another viewpoint to consider.

[Activating flame retardant now....]:grin:


----------



## James Long

Turbohawk said:


> The way it _should_ work is that they *GIVE ABSOLUTELY FREE* the customer the equipment that is required to access their service. Just like the cable company has had to do all these years (and still do).


Yeah. That would be a good argument if all cable companies DID give away everything - they don't.


----------



## ashu

James Long said:


> Yeah. That would be a good argument if all cable companies DID give away everything - they don't.


Ahh, if you're comparing the Dish 'PVR' to a DVR that actually works well (TiVo) ... one of those actually DESERVES an extra fee, while the other doesn't. No prizes for correct guesses 

Content providers should ONLY lease such products as higher tier marketting options to draw customers for the combined package of programming and the ability to timeshift it. Dish's sell-and-lease model is definitely weird! And their implementation, as well as upgrade path availability are odder still!

FWIW, those of you trying to upgrade from MPEG to MPEG-4 (DVR or non) and unhappy about the charge can definitely call Dish and see whether their 'Retentions' department will cut you a special deal. I was offered one, with a completely free 811->211 upgrade, but had to decline. My mind was made up on giving Cable another shot. (Not to mention the extra effort some geniuses have apparently put into the 211 to make the use of a standalone TiVo as difficult as possible!)


----------



## normang

Many who have gone to cable, came back... the grass is rarely greener on the other side..


----------



## ashu

normang said:


> Many who have gone to cable, came back... the grass is rarely greener on the other side..


Ahh, but I've been with cable for YEARS. (internet and tv). In December (05), with my impending HD purchase, and the 'need' for certain ethnic/international channels, I decided I'd give Dish a shot. No contract, and I paid extra for that 'privilege'. Nothing to convince me to stick with Dish. Their handling of the 811->211 upgrade path left a bad tase in the mouth. I was told I would receive locals (in HD) when they became available, and now that I've finally bought an HDTV, I find that I don't. And can't without an expensive upgrade and a 'required' 18 month contract.

Combined Cable billing, identical if not better HD quality, and simplicity of use with my TiVos (and a simple upgrade path when the Dual Cable Card Series 3 TiVo comes out) convinced me to give all my business to cable, instead of sharing the love. I've watched the Voom HD channels at a friend's place ... they're truly fluff. Even if they weren't, there is only so much TV one can watch 

So, in my case, Dish was the green grass that dried. Verizon FIOS is the other grass that has just been planted.


----------



## nataraj

normang said:


> Many who have gone to cable, came back... the grass is rarely greener on the other side..


I'm one of them - well anyway my dish install is for the 22nd. I did this mostly because of some internationals I can't get on Comcast. I'm not sure why anyone who can get Comcast with multiple DVRs for free would want dish - except for larger number of HD (lite) channels ...

p.s. And ofcourse my one year cheaper cable deal is getting over.


----------



## harsh

ashu said:


> Verizon FIOS is the other grass that has just been planted.


The problem with FIOS is like any other new grass: you can't walk on it yet.


----------



## ashu

harsh said:


> ashu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Verizon FIOS is the other grass that has just been planted.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with FIOS is like any other new grass: you can't walk on it yet.
Click to expand...

True. But the presence (FINALLY! 13 months behind schedule!) of Verizon trucks all over my neighborhood leads me to believe that some Miracle-Gro is being added to the mix.

Enough with the silly analogies ... does this explain my resistance to Dish's contract requirement, especially when I JUST (4-5 months ago) PAID for an installation just so I didn't have to be tied into a contract? What is their cost of acquisition per customer anyway?

Agreed, the installation of two dishes and a switch and 30 measly feet of cable probably cost them more than the $50 they already charged me to sign up (contract-free), but one has to wonder what/when their break-even point with me would have been, had they not stuck to the 'now you need to sign a contract' requirement. Verizon is realistically still months away (with my luck), and I had the top tier of programming, would have added more HD, and likely retained a few international (high-profit for them, as I understand it) channels.


----------



## clapple

"True. But the presence (FINALLY! 13 months behind schedule!) of Verizon trucks all over my neighborhood leads me to believe that some Miracle-Gro is being added to the mix."

Those Verizon trucks have come and gone. Cable installed about six months ago! No sign of TV service.


----------



## GrumpyBear

ashu said:


> Ahh, but I've been with cable for YEARS. (internet and tv). In December (05), with my impending HD purchase, and the 'need' for certain ethnic/international channels, I decided I'd give Dish a shot. No contract, and I paid extra for that 'privilege'. Nothing to convince me to stick with Dish. Their handling of the 811->211 upgrade path left a bad tase in the mouth. I was told I would receive locals (in HD) when they became available, and now that I've finally bought an HDTV, I find that I don't. And can't without an expensive upgrade and a 'required' 18 month contract.
> 
> Combined Cable billing, identical if not better HD quality, and simplicity of use with my TiVos (and a simple upgrade path when the Dual Cable Card Series 3 TiVo comes out) convinced me to give all my business to cable, instead of sharing the love. I've watched the Voom HD channels at a friend's place ... they're truly fluff. Even if they weren't, there is only so much TV one can watch
> 
> So, in my case, Dish was the green grass that dried. Verizon FIOS is the other grass that has just been planted.


I am trying to figure out, how with a 811 or a 211, you wouldn't get the HD locals for free? No other equipment needed and with the 211 you could have recieved the Dish1000, if it was needed. My Nieghbors are always complaining about there Cable going out, in 10 years, I have never lost a signal for more then 5 minutes. I couldn't even consider going back to Cable, I have looked at my neighbors Adelphia HD channels compared to mine, he drools, yells when they are working on the system and it goes out. He Can't stand the menu's, now that he see's how they should be. I would love Fios for the internet, see if I could bump up over my 3mb Dsl, other than that, No real use for it, for now. Down the Road maybe, but not now.


----------



## Jim5506

GrumpyBear said:


> I am trying to figure out, how with a 811 or a 211, you wouldn't get the HD locals for free?


The 811 cannot receive mpeg4 or sat signals designated for a ViP class receiver - therefore no locals in HD on the 811. The 211 IS a ViP receiver and will receive HD locals.


----------



## James Long

GrumpyBear said:


> I am trying to figure out, how with a 811 or a 211, you wouldn't get the HD locals for free?


As Jim noted, the 811 cannot receive MPEG4 channels - but the ViP-211 or 411 would work fine for receiving new HD locals via satellite. All three receivers (and their DVR counterparts) can receive over-the-air digital locals.

As long as one subscribes to any HD package and their market's locals they will receive SD and HD locals via satellite as they become available. If you don't subscribe to locals you won't get any locals via satellite, SD or HD.


----------



## koralis

James Long said:


> As long as one subscribes to any HD package and their market's locals they will receive SD and HD locals via satellite as they become available. If you don't subscribe to locals you won't get any locals via satellite, SD or HD.


Do you know if you get HD locals if you subscribe to AT60, locals, and pay the $5 "HD enabling" fee instead of the package?


----------



## James Long

One should.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Jim5506 said:


> The 811 cannot receive mpeg4 or sat signals designated for a ViP class receiver - therefore no locals in HD on the 811. The 211 IS a ViP receiver and will receive HD locals.


I should have phrased my response better. After upgrading to a 211 from a 811, what would keep you from getting HD Local's? As he was complaining about the upgrade process from the 811 to the 211.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I do have a question along this line of HD upgrading. If I buy a 622 outright, the price is getting to a point where I can live with it, do I still have to wait for somebody to come out and double check my cabling to activate it? My work schedule doesn't allow me to be very accomodating with installers, and I don't really need one anyway. I am really thinking about buying one this weekend and want to plug it in and activate when it arrives, and want to know if this can be done?


----------



## clapple

GrumpyBear said:


> I do have a question along this line of HD upgrading. If I buy a 622 outright, the price is getting to a point where I can live with it, do I still have to wait for somebody to come out and double check my cabling to activate it? My work schedule doesn't allow me to be very accomodating with installers, and I don't really need one anyway. I am really thinking about buying one this weekend and want to plug it in and activate when it arrives, and want to know if this can be done?


It depends on what equiptment you have. I need a new dish and a new switch and a Dish Pro lnb (or lbn, which ever way it is) for my 61.5 dish. All were included, at the up grade price.


----------



## harsh

GrumpyBear said:


> I am really thinking about buying one this weekend and want to plug it in and activate when it arrives, and want to know if this can be done?


You'll need to cough up considerably more information about your existing setup and your goal setup before we can tell you what needs to happen.

What is your current antenna and switch setup?

What other receivers will be in the final mix?

Are you planning on connecting something to TV2?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Ok,
I already have a dish1000 with a DB4 OTA, up and running recievers are 211 and a 522. Everything is working fine, but want the 622 now. Don't need the DPP444, as I will only be using the 2 TV's at this house. I have a DPP Seperator, which will connect to Port1 of the 1000, for the 2 Sat in's on the 622, Port2 of the Dish1000 will run to the 522. As for connecting something to TV2, that will be a NO, as I will use that for PIP or recording while watching something else. My real question is, IF I buy the 622, can I call in to activate it since I own it. I "almost" understand why they want to install their leased equipment, but I will own the 622 in question.


----------



## harsh

GrumpyBear said:


> I "almost" understand why they want to install their leased equipment, but I will own the 622 in question.


Did "they" install the Dish1000? I am guessing that their primary concern is that the Dish1000 is properly installed. The rest is pie.

You could also call Dish and ask before you buy. I bought and installed my Dish1000 in November and they gave me some grief about how I couldn't possibly have a Dish1000, but they turned on the Vooms anyway.


----------



## GrumpyBear

harsh said:


> Did "they" install the Dish1000? I am guessing that their primary concern is that the Dish1000 is properly installed. The rest is pie.
> 
> You could also call Dish and ask before you buy. I bought and installed my Dish1000 in November and they gave me some grief about how I couldn't possibly have a Dish1000, but they turned on the Vooms anyway.


I installed my own Dish1000 back in January, and currently have the HD Platinum package, everything works great, no real issues, sometimes I think I should have gone with the DB8 instead of the DB4, for the over the air but oh well. Before you ask I use the OTA for my Local's, as I was able to keep my waiver in place as where I have moved my billing address for both house's has allowed me to keep my Distant locals for Chicago and LA. I get LA in HD but not Chicago, only SD.


----------



## acnownzu

I upgraded my 811 to a 622 for $299, but I just recently purchased a new HDTV for upstairs and want to install a 211. I currently have a 311 receiver in the room... how can I upgrade and how much should it be? I am allowed to lease both a 622 and 211, right?

If they won't give me the 211, can I just keep the 811 and send them the 311 instead?


----------



## ashu

GrumpyBear said:


> I should have phrased my response better. After upgrading to a 211 from a 811, what would keep you from getting HD Local's? As he was complaining about the upgrade process from the 811 to the 211.


Matter of principle ... 18 month contract. No thanks - I already paid 50 upon initial installation to avoid contracts and was told my 811 WOULD receive HD locals as soon as they were available.

I decided to forego the 211 'upgrade' (they're still sending down *mostly* MPEG-2 channels wrapped in MPEG-2 header info to prevent backward compatibility!) and skip to Cable.

Ahh - forgot an important one. I was also wary of how they were 'treating' TiVo users. Whether intentionally or otherwise, the nightly reboots some folks reported with the 211 unit did not sound conducive to my desire to continue to be a TiVo subscriber. Anyone can supply the channels & programming; I only trust one product to time-shift it for me


----------



## harsh

acnownzu said:


> I upgraded my 811 to a 622 for $299, but I just recently purchased a new HDTV for upstairs and want to install a 211. I currently have a 311 receiver in the room... how can I upgrade and how much should it be?


Nothing like a little hindsight to give you that sick feeling. Given that you get the same trade-in value for a ViP622 on an 811 as you do for a 311 ($0), you should have arranged to send in the 311 in the first place.


> I am allowed to lease both a 622 and 211, right?


More than likely. There may be some upgrade limitations regarding how many "upgrades" over a period of subscription that you need to ask Dish about.


> If they won't give me the 211, can I just keep the 811 and send them the 311 instead?


You need to make sure you make arrangements with Dish _before_ you do something contrary to what you told them. As I recall, you have 15 days to return and if you don't tell them otherwise, they might deactivate the 811.

If you can convince them that you really wanted to return the 311 in the first place, you can "Dish'n It Up" to the ViP211 from the 811 on a lease for $49 with _mandatory_ professional installation included. If Dish doesn't allow you to change your mind, you may have to wait to a few months to upgrade. MSRP on the ViP211/411 is now $249.

Does anybody know what the price point will be on the ViP222?


----------



## harsh

ashu said:


> Whether intentionally or otherwise, the nightly reboots some folks reported with the 211 unit did not sound conducive to my desire to continue to be a TiVo subscriber. Anyone can supply the channels & programming; I only trust one product to time-shift it for me


Pretty much everyone is treating TiVo users like dirt:

1. No satellite delivered HD capability (speaking of SA TiVo)

2. NTSC broadcast going away in 34 months rendering internal tuners on existing models useless

3. TiVo's giving substantial attention towards other pursuits (CATV, Internet downloads)

4. Probability that CATV will drop NTSC sooner than later (my Comcast is now mirroring all locals in "digital"); I bet that they will offer digital converters (QAM to NTSC) to old TV owners rather than wasting bandwidth on NTSC channels.


----------



## Fifty Caliber

NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color

Or Colour if you are a Brit.


----------



## harsh

Fifty Caliber said:


> Or Colour if you are a Brit.


I beg to differ. If you're a Brit, it is Phase Alternating Line. If you had said "English speaking Canadian", maybe.


----------



## acnownzu

harsh said:


> If you can convince them that you really wanted to return the 311 in the first place, you can "Dish'n It Up" to the ViP211 from the 811 on a lease for $49 with _mandatory_ professional installation included. If Dish doesn't allow you to change your mind, you may have to wait to a few months to upgrade. MSRP on the ViP211/411 is now $249.


I'll have to call back tomorrow. Basically what I was told is that since I already participated in the Dish'n It Up program, I am not eligible for another upgrade. But since, as you pointed out, my trade-in value towards the 622 is $0, I'm not sure it should count towards it.

Then again, if the MSRP of the Vip211 dropped to $249, it should be selling on Ebay for $199 pretty soon. At that price it might be worth just purchasing...


----------



## GrumpyBear

acnownzu said:


> I'll have to call back tomorrow. Basically what I was told is that since I already participated in the Dish'n It Up program, I am not eligible for another upgrade. But since, as you pointed out, my trade-in value towards the 622 is $0, I'm not sure it should count towards it.
> 
> Then again, if the MSRP of the Vip211 dropped to $249, it should be selling on Ebay for $199 pretty soon. At that price it might be worth just purchasing...


Keep pushing, get to a manager, I had the same problem back, I upgraded to a 811, only to find out a month later(as thats when I discovered this site) about the 211, called before and than really pushed afterwards, I was able to get a 211 swapped in for my 811, just keep asking for somebody else or a managers manager.


----------



## datbeme

James Long said:


> As Jim noted, the 811 cannot receive MPEG4 channels - but the ViP-211 or 411 would work fine for receiving new HD locals via satellite. All three receivers (and their DVR counterparts) can receive over-the-air digital locals.
> 
> As long as one subscribes to any HD package and their market's locals they will receive SD and HD locals via satellite as they become available. If you don't subscribe to locals you won't get any locals via satellite, SD or HD.


So, all I need to do is replace my 811 with the 211 and I can receieve MPEG4 channels? Is it as simple as unconnecting the 811 and connecting the 211 in its place and ready to go (plug and play) or will need a new dish on roof. Currently, I have the 2 dish setup with one of the dishes I beleive pointed at the 61.5 for the Voom package.


----------



## dsanbo

datbeme said:


> So, all I need to do is replace my 811 with the 211 and I can receieve MPEG4 channels? Is it as simple as unconnecting the 811 and connecting the 211 in its place and ready to go (plug and play) or will need a new dish on roof. Currently, I have the 2 dish setup with one of the dishes I beleive pointed at the 61.5 for the Voom package.


datbeme....
Yep...you should be all set...of course, AFTER calling E* to register your new 211...Your 2 dish setup (assuming one dish at 110/119 and the other at 61.5) should be fine (it's what I have, with a 411....). Good luck!


----------



## ashu

harsh said:


> Pretty much everyone is treating TiVo users like dirt:


Pretty much like a ... hmm, I'd say 'capitalistic' system. To be expected Why are you surprised? Or are you merely trying to 'rub it in'? 

[dig_back_atcha]
At least they designed their own PVR system and didn't copy someone elses!


----------



## audiomaster

If someone has a dish 500 and a 61 degree dish now and upgrades to a 622 are they installing 1000s or just leaving the setup as is with maybe a new switch. I have the above but may not have a clear sightline to 129. I managed a nice "hole" for 110/119 through the tree cover. The 61 degree dish is about 200ft away from the dish 500. 
I am thinking about upgrading when Charlotte gets HD locals. Will all l ocals eventually go to 110/119/129? Or will they still be mirrored at 61 degrees?


----------



## James Long

Where any market's HD locals ends up is only a guess until they are available to customers. If you already have a 61.5° setup the installer may just leave well enough alone.


----------



## Jim5506

GrumpyBear said:


> I am trying to figure out, how with a 811 or a 211, you wouldn't get the HD locals for free? No other equipment needed and with the 211 you could have recieved the Dish1000, if it was needed. My Nieghbors are always complaining about there Cable going out, in 10 years, I have never lost a signal for more then 5 minutes. I couldn't even consider going back to Cable, I have looked at my neighbors Adelphia HD channels compared to mine, he drools, yells when they are working on the system and it goes out. He Can't stand the menu's, now that he see's how they should be. I would love Fios for the internet, see if I could bump up over my 3mb Dsl, other than that, No real use for it, for now. Down the Road maybe, but not now.


The 811 is not a ViP series receiver and will NEVER be able to receive HD locals, because they are MPEG4. The 211 on the other hand is a ViP receiver and if you subscribe to your locals and an HD metallic pack you get HD locals, too.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Jim5506 said:


> The 811 is not a ViP series receiver and will NEVER be able to receive HD locals, because they are MPEG4. The 211 on the other hand is a ViP receiver and if you subscribe to your locals and an HD metallic pack you get HD locals, too.


Like I said in the other post I should have Rephrased it. Since you have upgraded your 811 to a 211, what would keep you from getting the HD Locals. 
His response was, just more belly aching.


----------



## ashu

GrumpyBear said:


> His response was, just more belly aching.


I'm sorry your inability to comprehend a simple explanation leads you to that incorrect interpretation. :grin: .


----------



## GrumpyBear

ashu said:


> I'm sorry your inability to comprehend a simple explanation leads you to that incorrect interpretation. :grin: .


No not really, its your call and your choice, it was a VERY simple explanation. I was seeing if you would respond or not.


----------



## ashu

GrumpyBear said:


> No not really, its your call and your choice, it was a VERY simple explanation. I was seeing if you would respond or not.


I'm happy that you were able to get the last word in. Again. :sure:


----------



## MichaelJ

This is getting a little nuts. I e-mailed E about the lease fee and was told my monthly charges for a 622 would include $54.99 for HD Bronze, $5.98 DVR fee and a $5 Lease fee. Are they charging me for the second receiver on the 622? I've called E and been given two stories. One with the lease fee, one without. Does anybody know the right answer to this?



James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to DISH Network, regardless of if it was originally purchased or leased. The customer can keep the box and use it in another location in the house, they will just have to pay the full $299 lease upgrade fee and are not eligible for the rebate._
> 
> *Can existing customers lease a 622 in addition to keeping their owned 942/921?*
> _Yes they can. They may use the 942/921 in an additional location in the house. They will be subject to the additional outlet fee of $5._
> 
> *First Receiver rental fee - Who pays? Who doesn't?*
> _The monthly lease fee for receiver No. 1 on a persons' account is built into the price of the service. For example, a subscriber to DishHD Bronze with locals pays $54.99 a month, and the receiver fee is built into that price. If they have two additional receivers on the account, they pay $5 extra per box._
> 
> *New and Existing Customers?*
> _Everyone pays the same for a package, and one of the things that goes into us coming up with our prices is the box fee._
> 
> Thanks to moderator Mike Johnson for tracking down this information.
> 
> Additional clarification from Tech Forum 2/13/06:
> _The 811 DOES NOT qualify for the $200 rebate._
> 
> *PLEASE NOTE*
> Many members have reported having a receiver lease fee on their bill while having only one receiver, contrary to the information we were provided above.


----------



## datbeme

dsanbo said:


> datbeme....
> Yep...you should be all set...of course, AFTER calling E* to register your new 211...Your 2 dish setup (assuming one dish at 110/119 and the other at 61.5) should be fine (it's what I have, with a 411....). Good luck!


Thanks for the reply! ....and would I be able to receive E* HD locals (they are available in my area) with this same setup?


----------



## dsanbo

datbeme said:


> Thanks for the reply! ....and would I be able to receive E* HD locals (they are available in my area) with this same setup?


If your locals are on 129....you'd need either a Dish 1000 or a separate 300 or 500 aimed at 129. I wouldn't assume your locals are on 61.5, like they are here in the Boston DMA.....


----------



## datbeme

dsanbo said:


> If your locals are on 129....you'd need either a Dish 1000 or a separate 300 or 500 aimed at 129. I wouldn't assume your locals are on 61.5, like they are here in the Boston DMA.....


Thanks! How can I find out what sat. my HD locals are on in my area?


----------



## ZICRON

datbeme said:


> Thanks! How can I find out what sat. my HD locals are on in my area?


Yes, I live in AZ, I would like to know also, thank in advance.


----------



## KKlare

The standard reference but check with Dish anyway because they are changing a lot:

Dish Network Channel Chart (Unofficial)


----------



## datbeme

dsanbo said:


> datbeme....
> Yep...you should be all set...of course, AFTER calling E* to register your new 211...Your 2 dish setup (assuming one dish at 110/119 and the other at 61.5) should be fine (it's what I have, with a 411....). Good luck!


One last question,

Same scenerio, but what if I choose ONE of the new receivers to be the VIP622, am I still plug n play with this setup? Or will something now have to change, i.e. switch, dish, etc?

p.s. thanks for all your help!


----------



## socceteer

Sorry if some one else has asked this, I tried to read the entire thread.

I have upgraded my 921 to a 622 and now I wanted to upgrade my 811 to a 211. I was told that because I upgraded my 921 to a 622, I am not eligible for an upgrade of my 811 to a 211...I was told that I could buy a 211, but I could not lease one until a year from now.

Is this true...if so why..?


----------



## harsh

socceteer said:


> I have upgraded my 921 to a 622 and now I wanted to upgrade my 811 to a 211. I was told that because I upgraded my 921 to a 622, I am not eligible for an upgrade of my 811 to a 211...I was told that I could buy a 211, but I could not lease one until a year from now.
> 
> Is this true...if so why..?


The motivation for the policy comes from the fact that Dish hasn't extracted their pound of flesh from you yet on the ViP622. The other option would be to demand a 36 month committment. That some have been able to upgrade two receivers is a matter of great discussion in other threads.

Your options are to buy a 411 or ViP211, continue using the 811 or spin again with Customer Service.


----------



## ashu

harsh said:


> Your options are to buy a 411 or ViP211, continue using the 811 or spin again with Customer Service.


You forgot to mention the 'dump Dish' option 
It worked for me! Cable happily gave me two HD DVRs (and better HD quality than at least my 811) and a regular box, and have Cable Cards available for self-install for whenever the Series 3 TiVo comes out.


----------



## BobaBird

ZICRON said:


> Yes, I live in AZ, I would like to know also, thank in advance.


Phoenix HD locals are on 110°. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/hdlocal.htm.


----------



## jcm.oo

socceteer said:


> Sorry if some one else has asked this, I tried to read the entire thread.
> 
> I have upgraded my 921 to a 622 and now I wanted to upgrade my 811 to a 211. I was told that because I upgraded my 921 to a 622, I am not eligible for an upgrade of my 811 to a 211...I was told that I could buy a 211, but I could not lease one until a year from now.
> 
> Is this true...if so why..?


I upgraded two 942's to 622's with no problem. Dish told me as long as you were swapping like for like there was no problem, they do have to transfer you to some kind of executive resolution team. If you were to try to upgrade the 811 to a 622, after already upgrading a 921 you would likely have a problem.


----------



## socceteer

jcm.oo said:


> I upgraded two 942's to 622's with no problem. Dish told me as long as you were swapping like for like there was no problem, they do have to transfer you to some kind of executive resolution team. If you were to try to upgrade the 811 to a 622, after already upgrading a 921 you would likely have a problem.


Thanks for the information, I will try again


----------



## RLMesq

While packing up my 942 in the prepaid box, I noticed that the detailed instructions don't say anything about the remotes. It would sure be handy to have the spare remotes around for the 622 -- especially an extra RF for the back bedroom.

Anybody have experience with Dish asking for the remotes if they weren't returned with the 942 receiver?


----------



## Ron Barry

For what it is worth... I returned my 921 without the remotes. I noticed on my last statement full credit for the 921. There was no instructions to include the remote so I did not.


----------



## RockStrongo

ashu said:


> You forgot to mention the 'dump Dish' option
> It worked for me! Cable happily gave me two HD DVRs (and better HD quality than at least my 811) and a regular box, and have Cable Cards available for self-install for whenever the Series 3 TiVo comes out.


I tried cable last fall (Charter in the DFW area)....it was crap.

The scientific atlantic (or whatever) hd dvr receiver didnt allow me to use favorites for channels. The hd locals were FAR from the other channels too!

They didnt have all the hd locals (at the time, they only had NBC, FOX, WB and ABC), no ota connection on the receiver and the SD channel quality left alot to be desired. Luckily, I had not cancelled my Dish.

I wont make that mistake again.


----------



## debpasc

Regarding returning remotes: Tech told me specifically NOT to return remotes when I bundled up both my broken 921 and replacement 942 for upgrade to 622. So, consider your extra remotes a "gift" from E*.


----------



## gilunionhall

new $ for upgrade package -

have any of you gotten a call from dish about an upgrade from the 942 to 622?

the upgrade is essentially free - a $199 charge with a $200 credit on your bill.

i thought it had been $299 with a $200 rebate.

gil


----------



## GrumpyBear

Do my eyes decieve me? But is the new lease price for a 622DVR now down to 199 for all of us? Granted those of us with no 942, we don't get the rebate, but looks like, the Lease is now 199 and 18months


----------



## gilunionhall

RE - "new" 942 - 622 offer

i just placed my order for the 942- 622 upgrade.

This situation may or may not be new from what everyone else has heard.

you have to be called on the phone to get this offer (we have caller ID and i do not normally answer 800 # calls, but i did this time)

you have 7 days to book the installation

the 622 is not shipped to you anymore - the installation tech brings it with them

the "script" that the operator reads from still has $100 in it for the total rebate and the operator has to go in and change the amount to $200 in the "notes" section on your account.

they refund $100 of the total to you while you are on the phone when you place the order

the remaining $99.95 is refunded when you mail the 942 back and it is rec'd at dish.

they have added at least 2 more HD channels recently - Nat Geographic and HGTV.

as i said, some of this may be old info - hopefully it is helpful to a lot of you

gil


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## normang

Almost 5 months have gone by since the opening VIP Bell, I would expect that some new offers would start to appear as the initial upgrade frenzy is over or nearly over.. Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes next...


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## James Long

NEW SUBSCRIBER to DishHD OFFERS
-- $10 off for 10 months --
Non-HD customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
Pay $199.99 and get a $100 HD Bonus Credit: $99.99 Upgrade
Includes dish and all hardware and installation

HD 811 customers: Same as above ($99.99) for a ViP-622 DVR

HD 942/921 customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
Pay $199.99, get a $100 HD Bonus Credit and $100 Equipment Return Credit: FREE Upgrade
Includes dish and all hardware and installation

(JL Note: Keep your old HD Receiver and get a ViP-622 DVR for $99.99.)

Offers ends --- ???? at least September 11th (Take all summer to decide!)


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## normang

James Long said:


> NEW SUBSCRIBER to DishHD OFFERS
> -- $10 off for 10 months --
> Non-HD customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
> Pay $199.99 and get a $100 HD Bonus Credit: $99.99 Upgrade
> Includes dish and all hardware and installation
> 
> HD 811 customers: Same as above ($99.99) for a ViP-622 DVR
> 
> HD 942/921 customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
> Pay $199.99, get a $100 HD Bonus Credit and $100 Equipment Return Credit: FREE Upgrade
> Includes dish and all hardware and installation
> 
> (JL Note: Keep your old HD Receiver and get a ViP-622 DVR for $99.99.)
> 
> Offers ends --- ???? at least September 11th (Take all summer to decide!)


What is the difference between this offer and the one found on this page from Dish..

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/dishhd/offer/index.shtml

Is it the same, but not mentioning the limited time reductions on the programming packages???

Or is one better than the other.. its just confusing as all get out.. IMHO..


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## gilunionhall

Re - What is the difference

hello norm - all i am familiar with is the 942 - 622 hardware offer.

but in another vein - are you a "mac" person - maybe i can pick your brain occasionally on some periodic mac problems that i have - but that is a topic for another venue.

gil


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## normang

Hello Gil...

If you understand the current offers, cool.. confusing to me. However if you want to drop me private message here, I can try and answer your Mac questions..


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## motts

James Long said:


> NEW SUBSCRIBER to DishHD OFFERS
> -- $10 off for 10 months --
> Non-HD customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
> Pay $199.99 and get a $100 HD Bonus Credit: $99.99 Upgrade
> Includes dish and all hardware and installation
> 
> HD 811 customers: Same as above ($99.99) for a ViP-622 DVR
> 
> HD 942/921 customers: Upgrade to the ViP-622 MPEG4 DVR
> Pay $199.99, get a $100 HD Bonus Credit and $100 Equipment Return Credit: FREE Upgrade
> Includes dish and all hardware and installation
> 
> (JL Note: Keep your old HD Receiver and get a ViP-622 DVR for $99.99.)
> 
> Offers ends --- ???? at least September 11th (Take all summer to decide!)


Does the HD Bonus Credit apply to existing customers or just to new subscribers to Dish i general? I called them on 6/12 and no one mentioned anything about an HD Bonus Credit.

EDIT: Just called them, it applies for existing customers. Sounds good. She also told me that it is actually effective starting 6/9. You have to mail them a copy of your first bill with the HD package on it and fill out the form available online. In 6 to 8 weeks, you should get the $10 credit for 10 months.


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## Stewart Vernon

motts said:


> Does the HD Bonus Credit apply to existing customers or just to new subscribers to Dish i general? I called them on 6/12 and no one mentioned anything about an HD Bonus Credit.


Since these were just announced last night after 9pm EST on the Charlie Chat... and I believe Charlie himself noted that the customer service reps did not know about the offer... I would not be surprised that if you called yesterday (same day as announcement) no one knew about it.


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## gilunionhall

RE - just announced last night

maybe the programming part of the package was new to them?

gil


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## mraub

I just called Dish about the 811>622 upgrade for $99. The person I spoke with could find no reference to such an offer being in place. Is this something that is going into effect later or is it in effect now? If it's now in effect, how should I refer to it so it can be found on Dish's computers.

Thanks,
MIKE


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## vinobabu

Any deals for Vip 211 to ViP622 upgrade? Thanks


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## wingnut1

I got a call back on June 3rd offering to swap a 622 for my 942. I had to pay $200.00 up front and when I returned my 942, I would get a $200.00 credit on my bill. They set the appointment for today and I called yesterday to reschedule since I hadn't gotten the receiver yet. I called to day because I had read that all installs after the 9th the installer would bring the receiver. Dish CSR said that the installer would bring it. She called the installer and they called me back and said no the invoice said that the receiver was to be shipped. I asked the installer to contact Dish and make sure they ship the receiver and they said that they would. I hope that I'm not going to be caught in the middle here with each side saying the other is responsible.


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## Rob Glasser

Details on the new offer have been put in their own thread here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=59333 It also includes some clarification I got from DISH on keeping your 921/942 and still getting the HD Bonus credit.


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## ISG

Jim,

Are you saying if I bought an OTA atsc digital tuner I wouldn't be able to receive local HD programs because they all are being xmitted in mpeg 4?

I live in chicago area and receive cbs, nbc, fox and abc.

ISG


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## James Long

ISG said:


> Are you saying if I bought an OTA atsc digital tuner I wouldn't be able to receive local HD programs because they all are being xmitted in mpeg 4?


An OTA receiver should be able to receive anything with a strong enough signal to receive OTA (over the air) - MPEG4 comes into play when the signals are 'over the satellite'. E* is transmitting their local HD markets via satellite in MPEG4 that can only be watched on ViP receivers. MPEG4 feeds are not visible on the older E* HD receivers (942/921/811/6000/5000).

The ATSC tuner built into E*'s receivers works for OTA programming regardless of the model. It's the 'over the satellite' stuff where there is a difference.


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## tnsprin

James Long said:


> *Do 942/921 owners have to return their owned equipment to take advantage of the 622 lease or to get the April rebate?*
> _In order to receive the $200, the 942/921 must be returned to ...
> _


_
Time to put up the new "June" deal and unpin this thread._


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## James Long

True --- further details can be found in the new thread ...

FROM DISH: ViP622 Upgrade Details (As Announced 06/12/06)


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