# Getting Denver Channels



## Skeeterman (Jun 24, 2003)

I have just installed Dish Network and need to purchase the Denver channels. I have had a C-Band dish for 28 years and always had the Denver 5 channels. How do I go about getting these Denver channels? The Dish Network people didn't seem to care to help. I live in southwest Kansas and have a roof-top antenna that I get the local Tulsa channels, so I don't need to purchase these channels from Dish Network. Is there a form I need to complete and send it somewhere. Thanks for your replies.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

By Federal Law you have to qualify for the channels, you are not in the Denver DMA if you live in kansas, so you strike out that way. If you are getting the channels over the air you probably do not live in a white area so again legally you are out of luck. DISH isn't against selling you the channels THEY ARE LEGALLY PROHIBITED from selling them to you. Do a search on the forums for "moving" you may find some help there.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Call the Dish people again and ask for "Waivers for Distant Networks". What they'll do after that is submit your request to get Distant Networks to each of the stations in your "Local" DMA (Tulsa in your case). IF the Tulsa stations agree, THEN Dish can sell you the Denver stations.

However, if Tulsa is up on Dish, don't look for much sympathy from them - the stations would prefer you to see THEIR ads, not Denver. If you are currently getting them via BUD, hold onto that subscription until this is resolved.


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## RichW (Mar 29, 2002)

Your problem is not with DISH, but with the limitations in a Federal Law (called SHVIA) which restricts the use of statutory copyrights on material broadcast over the air. You were probably "granfathered" to receive the Denver stations via C-band if you were getting them prior to SHVIA being passed. However, your grandfather status does not transfer to DBS (Dish OR DirecTV). Don't get mad at DISH. They have fought the valiant fight to bring distant signals to as many people as the law will allow, but the NAB keeps chipping away at the right for us to receive distant broadcast signals. Complain to Congress as they are the only ones to change this.


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## Skeeterman (Jun 24, 2003)

boba said:


> By Federal Law you have to qualify for the channels, you are not in the Denver DMA if you live in kansas, so you strike out that way. If you are getting the channels over the air you probably do not live in a white area so again legally you are out of luck. DISH isn't against selling you the channels THEY ARE LEGALLY PROHIBITED from selling them to you. Do a search on the forums for "moving" you may find some help there.


I thank you for the info. and I have my doubts on getting any results from the stations in Tulsa.
The reason I wanted Denver, as my daughter is newscaster at one of the stations


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Skeeterman said:


> I thank you for the info. and I have my doubts on getting any results from the stations in Tulsa.
> The reason I wanted Denver, as my daughter is newscaster at one of the stations


Perhaps if you talk to the local station they will do a waiver for you because of your daughter. You might have to have her send you a letter on their stationary or contact the local station in some way so that they can see what you are doing and not just making it up.


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## pmalve (Mar 31, 2003)

You should be grandfathered in if you had the channels on your c c band dish. Might want to check with local congressman.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

He would be grandfathered in IF
#1 - he has maintained the C-Band subscription continously for the Denver nets
#2 - he hasn't moved


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

There seems to be forgotten in all of this hullaballoo this little tidbit from the SHVIA FAQ at the FCC website (bolded emphasis is mine):


> 17. Does this mean that a grandfathered satellite subscriber will retain the distant network signals until the subscriber decides to terminate satellite service?
> 
> A: No. The moratorium expires on December 31, 2004. After this date, satellite subscribers who were grandfathered will have to meet the criteria for "unserved" households in order to receive distant network signals. Alternatively, these subscribers may install a rooftop antenna to receive local signals over-the-air or may receive local-into-local service, if it is being offered. Also, grandfathered status only applies to subscribers who are receiving the same distant TV networks, from the same satellite company, using the same transmission technology, at the same location as they were on October 31, 1999 or when they were terminated after July 11, 1998. *If grandfathered subscribers change satellite companies, switch to a new type of satellite dish, or move to a new address, they lose their grandfathered status and their eligibility to receive distant signals.*


So, Skeeterman is not able to get the Denver stations from Dish Network since he is not grandfathered, unless Skeeterman keeps his C-Band up and running, and receives the Denver locals from there.

There is hope, though. I think Dish Network is going to try and get a declarative ruling regarding their current litigation regarding the SHVIA, since Dish Network has been ordered to requalify all distant subs, regardless of grandfather status. If Dish Network is able to win, then there may be hope. At that point, scooper is correct. Hopefully, Skeeterman still has his C-Band subscription to the Denver nets.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2003)

pmalve said:


> You should be grandfathered in if you had the channels on your c c band dish. Might want to check with local congressman.


Ask him/her why in the heck when the technology exists for American Consumers to watch any station from any market they choose, at a price they can afford, why THEIR government won't let them?

The power broadcasters hold over Congressmen and Senators isn't as much about money, as it is about free air time.

When those folks are back in their districts, stopping by for an appearance on the 5 o'clock news, they also make a stop by the station manager's office, who informs him/her that if they even think about letting the above come true, there goes the free air time.

Goverment by the broadcaster, of the broadcaster and for the broadcaster.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

> Ask him/her why in the heck when the technology exists for American Consumers to watch any station from any market they choose, at a price they can afford, why THEIR government won't let them?


Here we go again.

The government did not forbid nationwide locals. The government did provide an exception to copyright law to allow in-market retransmission of local channels.

If WNBC in New York wanted to sell its signal nationwide, all they need to do is buy licenses to all their programming for nationwide distribution. However, since NBC itself would be vehemently opposed to such an action, it isn't done.

Besides, any law that devalues an asset, simply because of the public interest, would have to provide compensation to those affected. The government seized the Zapruder film; that bit of film cost the government $16 million. Passing a copyright law that allows unlimited rebroadcast of television programs without just compensation, because it is in the public interest, violates the "takings clause" of the fifth amendment.

Click here for the Zapruder story.


> The Constitution requires the government to provide "just compensation to the owners of private property that is taken for the public good," the department noted in a statement.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

The main reason a law had to be passed allowing LIL was that copyright owners did not necessarily grant the right in all the contracts. The usual all rights clause in most contracts prohibits retransmission of material in any form not specified in the contract. Every TV show, commercial, etc would have had to some copyright work done on it. By passing the law saying it is the same to do satellite LIL as transmitting via a TV tower fixed the problem, because if you had the right to broadcast it on your TV station it applied to your broadcast of your TV station over satellite.

It is not the government that causes these problems, it is the copyright contracts.


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

Skeeterman said:


> I have just installed Dish Network and need to purchase the Denver channels. ..... I live in southwest Kansas and have a roof-top antenna that I get the local Tulsa channels, so I don't need to purchase these channels from Dish Network. Is there a form I need to complete and send it somewhere. Thanks for your replies.


I have to question this. I grew up in Dodge City -- southwest Kansas. There are ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and one PBS station there. (Ensign and Garden City). the only distant station I could get was KTVH-TV 12 from Hutchinson, and sometimes KARD-TV 3 from Wichita ... so, how in the world are you getting Tulsa? That's about 350 miles, a good TV throw.


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## RichW (Mar 29, 2002)

"Passing a copyright law that allows unlimited rebroadcast of television programs without just compensation, because it is in the public interest, violates the "takings clause" of the fifth amendment."

Actually, since the government licenses the use of frequencies in the public domain, it is not a taking. It would be simply setting the terms of use for broadcasting. The program provider/copyright holder is free to walk away from such a deal and sell his ware to cable, DVD, PPV, etc. Similar to the Supreme Court ruling that "must carry" was not a "takings" because public property was being used. 

But you knew that.


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