# Hopper, Buyer Beware!



## Tim_Carson

We just had Dish Hopper installed and already can't stand the thing.

Over the past 12+ years we have been using Tivos on DirecTV, PVR/DVR's on Dish Network and most recently AT&T UVerse connected to the three HDTV's in our home...we know how to use this technology and we understand how it's *supposed* to work.

Two days ago we made the big mistake of going back to Dish Network and having them install the new Hopper/Joey system.
Now we are stuck with it for the next two years.

For anyone considering this that likes to watch Live TV and have the DVR record other shows in the background, this thing is a mess and the techs at Dish Network even admitted it, one going so far as to call me back on his personal cell phone to ask me more questions and thank me for explaining to him in detail so he could cancel his own up-coming installation of Hopper. (He has real Dish Network DVRs now)

Why does Hopper fail miserably? 
Here a simple scenario:

Three people live in a house and are all connected to the Hopper/Joey system.

One person likes Horses, so they set the DVR to search and record Horse shows.

Another person likes to watch shows like "The Big Bang Theory", "How It's Made", "Modern Marvels" and a few other similar shows, so they tell it to record all new episodes of those.

The third person likes to watch Live Sports (Baseball, Football, Tennis, whatever), so they don't set it to record anything, just watch games when they come on.

Suppose this last person is watching say a Live Football game, there's 5 seconds left and their favorite team is just about to hike the ball from the one yard line and (hopefully) score the game winning touchdown.

At the same time, the preset recordings kick in and three timers go off.
The Live Football game gets switched over to record one of the other viewers shows without warning and you can't go back without spending 2 minutes pressing buttons/unplugging boxes to stop the DVR. 
By the time you get back to the game, it's over and on commercial.

There is no way to tell the Hopper/Joey to leave one of the sets alone.
Also, once you have Dish install the Hopper/Joey system, you can *never* go back to using a real Dish Network PVR/DRV...they refuse to replace it.

We contacted Dish Network after only having it installed for two days and were told "Too Bad, you signed a Two Year Contract and you will just have to live with it."

Buyer Beware.


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## AZ.

Well the software being based the same as the 922, makes me think, give it a year or two and then the'll have "some" bugs worked out....

Like any other company, its there track record that follows them....Dish has a long ugly tail!!!


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## coldsteel

Timer management.


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## garys

Anyone who has had Dish dvr's recently knows these things. Different company's equipment work differently due to copyrites. It would appear you may want a second Hopper system as each person views more than one program at the same time and three tuners are not enough for you. You may want a DIRT member to assist you. One should be along shortly.


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## MikeW

Thanks for your real-life experience. It makes my decision to do nothing right now seem like the right choice.


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## lparsons21

garys said:


> Anyone who has had Dish dvr's recently knows these things. Different company's equipment work differently due to copyrites. It would appear you may want a second Hopper system as each person views more than one program at the same time and three tuners are not enough for you. You may want a DIRT member to assist you. One should be along shortly.


It wouldn't be any different on a HR34 with RVU clients from Direct either. In the case of server and clients with no tuners, setting up timers becomes more difficult if live viewing is a priority while still wanting to record a slew of things. In both cases you can set priority for recordings, but live TV doesn't have a priority that I can see.

A 2nd Hopper would help in this case, and with the 2 hopper not seeing each other, one could be dedicated to the 'live' viewer to help. But once they unify the system, you're back to the same issue just with more tuners.

I keep thinking that the way to look at it is that if live viewing is an issue, then the HR34 from D* with Hx receivers makes more sense.

But if you are like me, and never watch anything live and record quite a bit of broadcast too, then the Hopper/Joey makes more sense. I currently have 3 dual-tuner DVRs with MRV working, because of what/how/when I watch, I could replace them with a single Hopper and a single Joey and not miss a show.


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## satjay

I went two Hopper, one Joey to remove any possible conflicts with live tv, works out well!


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## bobvick1983

lparsons21 said:


> It wouldn't be any different on a HR34 with RVU clients from Direct either. In the case of server and clients with no tuners, setting up timers becomes more difficult if live viewing is a priority while still wanting to record a slew of things. In both cases you can set priority for recordings, but live TV doesn't have a priority that I can see.
> 
> A 2nd Hopper would help in this case, and with the 2 hopper not seeing each other, one could be dedicated to the 'live' viewer to help. But once they unify the system, you're back to the same issue just with more tuners.
> 
> I keep thinking that the way to look at it is that if live viewing is an issue, then the HR34 from D* with Hx receivers makes more sense.
> 
> But if you are like me, and never watch anything live and record quite a bit of broadcast too, then the Hopper/Joey makes more sense. I currently have 3 dual-tuner DVRs with MRV working, because of what/how/when I watch, I could replace them with a single Hopper and a single Joey and not miss a show.


The HR34 does have two extra tuners though. So, if you have three things scheduled to record, then you would have two extra tuners left.
In this case however, it sounds like the O/P's problem could be resolved by getting an extra Hopper. Of course, I dont know how much they charge for an extra Hopper.


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## lparsons21

bobvick1983 said:


> The HR34 does have two extra tuners though. So, if you have three things scheduled to record, then you would have two extra tuners left.
> In this case however, it sounds like the O/P's problem could be resolved by getting an extra Hopper. Of course, I dont know how much they charge for an extra Hopper.


The cost for a 2nd Hopper is listed at $199, but many report getting a 2nd one for $100 IF they order it with the upgrade.

But just like the HR34 for existing customers, there's the list price, the really great deal price, and everything in between. All depending on who you talk to, what mood they are in, and what the Magic 8 Ball tells them to do!! :lol:

And I think the Magic 8 Ball trumps all other considerations.


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## patmurphey

Ridiculous complaint!! What did he expect with 3 tuners? A little internet browsing on this or other forums would have made it clear that a second Hopper would fill the need.


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## CCarncross

I guess with 3 distinct users and tastes in the house, a different setup should have been considered. We all know if you sign then that is what you will be using for the next 2 years. If you didnt want to get stuck with the 2 years contract, you could have paid $100's more dollars to avoid the contract if you chose. But it works out about the same as an ETF so if you're not happy cancel, pay the ETF and move on.


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## dpeters11

patmurphey said:


> Ridiculous complaint!! What did he expect with 3 tuners? A little internet browsing on this or other forums would have made it clear that a second Hopper would fill the need.


It seems to me the complaint is that there was no warning. Now, I fully admit that I'm not a Dish subscriber so don't know how it's supposed to work. But I'd think that if you were watching live TV, and the tuner was needed for a recording, it would pop something up on screen before hand to allow you to decide what you want to do. If the other Dish DVRs have that, and the Hopper doesn't, I'm sure it'll be fixed. It will be an issue if this is the case. If it does pop up a screen, and the OP didn't notice it, then that's a separate issue.


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## James Long

It is a shame that Mr Carson did not spend some time over in our Hopper forum before choosing to install. The limitations of the system are clearly discussed here along with reports of people who have chosen to go with two hopper systems.


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## phrelin

Tim_Carson said:


> We just had Dish Hopper installed and already can't stand the thing.
> 
> Over the past 12+ years we have been using Tivos on DirecTV, PVR/DVR's on Dish Network and most recently AT&T UVerse connected to the three HDTV's in our home...we know how to use this technology and we understand how it's *supposed* to work.
> 
> Two days ago we made the big mistake of going back to Dish Network and having them install the new Hopper/Joey system.
> Now we are stuck with it for the next two years.


I said this before. Dish should not be selling these things to new customers. Dish is advertising them like they are the new iPad. But they aren't the old iPad with some upgrades and glitches.

This system represents a major change in how satellite TV works. People that have them in the first six months are beta testers. Really understanding the technology of how they work is important at this point. And I've been reading here how some of our seasoned Forum members are learning about them, sometimes offering some "oh crap" moments.

New customers will use them as they have used Tivo-like boxes that operate more or less the same. New customers expect that the system will have at least the typical "you are about to screw up" warning screens. New customers won't accept "oh crap" moments. They will tell other potential new customers "Dish is crap." I don't understand why they release new equipment this way.:nono2:


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## lparsons21

The growing pains with the Hopper/Joey will most likely be more pronounced since it is such a shift in how you use them compared to the older boxes as you note.

D*'s 'stepped' approach was smoother since it was basically just adding a feature to systems already in place, so you could use them in the conventional manner, plus share some video with others. And then bring out the HR34 and the oft-rumored, never seen RVU client.


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## lparsons21

dpeters11 said:


> It seems to me the complaint is that there was no warning. Now, I fully admit that I'm not a Dish subscriber so don't know how it's supposed to work. But I'd think that if you were watching live TV, and the tuner was needed for a recording, it would pop something up on screen before hand to allow you to decide what you want to do. If the other Dish DVRs have that, and the Hopper doesn't, I'm sure it'll be fixed. It will be an issue if this is the case. If it does pop up a screen, and the OP didn't notice it, then that's a separate issue.


The boxes previous to the Hopper/Joey did in fact put up a warning when a tuner was about to be taken for a recording and had a simple selection to stop it. I haven't read any postings that indicate this is still true with the Hopper/Joey setup, but I would think common sense would prevail.


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## neomaine

Like others, I'm not getting the problem:

You have three tuners, three things scheduled to record ... what did you expect to happen? Is there no 2 min count down timer before the scheduled recording starts (like on a 722/622) on the display of the tuner currently used in live mode? 

- Countdown timer, nice to have. If not available (on Hopper), make a feature request.
- Priority prompt for when a recording is about to start so you can cancel, nice to have. If not available, make a feature request.

Actually, that second one is a great idea. If any DIRT members see this post then I'll make it a feature request. Something like:

- At T-2:00min, begin countdown display
- At T-1:00min, provide a Cancel yes/no prompt for the timer
(Note, make the prompt small enough so that when it comes up it doesn't take up the whole display. Someone is, after all, trying to watch current programming. Having the prompt (small or large) is a small price to pay for the ability to cancel the scheduled timer.)
- At T-0:10sec, remove prompt and get ready to record

I'd also recommend putting a reminder that if someone still wanted to record the show after cancelling, they'd have to do it manually. Then again, if someone couldn't figure that one out on their own ... yes, I know many wouldn't and somehow blame Dish for it ... that's their own dumbass fault.

While I'm thinking about it: 

Allow the current remote to override programming on the current tuner. i.e if something is timered for TV1 even though it was scheduled from TV2/remote.

There's nothing more frustrating than watching something on TV1 but something scheduled from TV2 is about to record on tuner 1. It's a PITA to fumble around for the TV2 remote to get the TV2 timer cancelled.

My son is never around to find the stupid TV2 remote _somewhere_ in his bedroom. My wife and always record to TV2 first (so we can watch live TV1), which probably pisses him off and why he records to TV1 so he can watch TV2.

Request #3:
- Have a something in system settings to define which tuner a SlingAdapter will use.

We're probably going to get a Hopper/3 Joey setup, with TV1 being our main display and TV2/3 in the bedrooms. Since one of the bedrooms is not going to be used much with my son off to school, it would be nice to default the SA to use TV2, OR, TV3 ... which ever one isn't currently being used.

I'm not sure how the cabling is setup, but I guess I could always swap the TV2/TV3 cables at the Hopper to achieve the same thing but I'd prefer not to have to muck around with cabling.

Thanks, I'm just trying to plan ahead for my Hopper/Joey setup. Seems like that isn't practical for some. :grin:


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## Tim_Carson

I tried my best to explain the problem, sorry if I didn't do so well.
I've never had to post a complaint like this before, so I did my best.

As far as knowing better, we did ask if this new system worked like the old 722Vip's we had (three of them), and we were told yes, it would and it actually would be better.

With the old 722's, we could tell them to use tuner two to record and leave tuner one alone.
Also, as stated above, it would warn you when you did want to use both tuners and give you a chance to abort. 
This new setup does not ask, nor will it let you abort a recording without going to "DVR", find the show you want to abort, find the specific show from the list it creates, select the show, hit the menu and select Stop.
When you do all of this, you have lost the "Live View" recording buffer it was saving of the show you were watching.


I contacted Dish Network Tech Support and asked if adding a second Hopper would solve the "problem" and they told me they had no idea if that would work or not. 
I guess I'll have to call back a few times until I can talk to someone who knows more about how the system works.
-or-
Maybe someone here can point me to a thread that explains what will happen if we add a second Hopper?

From what I can gather, I would add a second unit and tell it never to record anything, therefore there would be three open tuners available at all times?
Would it show all 6 turners on all three TV's?


As a last resort, we contacted Dish and asked that they provide us with the cost to cancel and go back to the UVerse we still have installed.
Someone is supposed to call us back with a dollar value (I expect about $500.00)

Luckily for us, we did not cancel the UVerse service yet.
(And no, I'm not a plant for UVerse. The picture quality of their HD is on par with Dish's Standard Definition, but at least their DVR works as expected)


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## Tim_Carson

One other thing of note, that I wished I had known before we had this installed.
As I stated above, once you have them install a Hopper you cannot go back to a Vip, even if you offer to pay extra for them.
They flat out refuse to let us go back to what we had before.

This just doesn't seem right to me. 
We loved the Vip DVRs.
(Not enough to pack up and move to a new address so we can get them back, but still...)


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## mdavej

If I were you, I'd just ask for a second hopper. That will give you 6 tuners like you had before with your 3 722's plus PTAT and more space, and your bill will be $16/month less than it was with the 722's. Put the Joey on the least watched TV. Until hoppers are fully integrated a few months from now, you'll need to split your timers across the 2 hoppers like you split them across your 3 722's. A little timer management will help too. Programs that run several times a day should be low priority and recorded late at night when no one is watching live TV.


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## domingos35

there was no need for that title
next time do your home work and ask questions before u upgrade


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## Stewart Vernon

Three people wanting to watch 3 things and recording 2-3 other things... I don't know why your expectation would be anything other than what happened.

The same would have happened on your ViP 722 if you used it the same way.

You need another Hopper. Right now Hoppers don't "see" each other but Joeys can see either Hopper, so if your 3 tuners on one Hopper are recording, you can switch your Joey to the other and should be fine.

I honestly don't know why you wouldn't have got a two-Hopper setup in the first place if you have 3 people who actively watch TV that often.


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## dunkonu23

I can understand the OP's dilemma. The advertising is at best, misleading. However, he should have explained his needs to the agent taking the order so this would have never happened. His complaint is just the reason we went with two Hoppers and two Joeys. This setup will give the OP six tuners, eventually. It will yield a fully meshed system where everything is linked. Content sharing will be transparent. What you're buying is not a "NOW", rather you're buying a future system. Granted, hopefully not too far in the future, but still a future system. 

Scott


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## Tim_Carson

neomaine said:


> Like others, I'm not getting the problem:
> 
> You have three tuners, three things scheduled to record ... what did you expect to happen? Is there no 2 min count down timer before the scheduled recording starts (like on a 722/622) on the display of the tuner currently used in live mode? ...


I'll try one more time to explain what happens.

The only way you can use this system is to manually set each recording.
You can't use the "Seek and Record" feature unless you review the shows it selects for you on a regular basis, say once a day.

For example, you have it set to record only two shows, "The Big Bang Theory" and "Community". 
You haven't seen all of the Community's, so you want it to record all of those and only new Big Bang.

It will start recording "Community" and "The Big Bang Theory" at 8:00PM pst on Thursday night.
Suppose you are watching "Thursday Night Football" Live on the third TV.
If any other channel decides to air a re-run of "Community" at either 8:00, 8:30 or 9:00 it will interrupt your Live Football Game and switch over to record the re-run.
You get no warning, just BAM!, you lost all of the live buffer for the last couple of hours of the game and are now fumbling the buttons trying to get back to see if they scored or not.

What Dish just finished telling me is that I can't use the Seek function anymore and I have to manually set it to record anything I want to record.

I think the old way was much better, but again that's just my opinion.


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## Tim_Carson

Stewart Vernon said:


> Three people wanting to watch 3 things and recording 2-3 other things... I don't know why your expectation would be anything other than what happened.
> 
> The same would have happened on your ViP 722 if you used it the same way.
> 
> You need another Hopper. Right now Hoppers don't "see" each other but Joeys can see either Hopper, so if your 3 tuners on one Hopper are recording, you can switch your Joey to the other and should be fine.
> 
> I honestly don't know why you wouldn't have got a two-Hopper setup in the first place if you have 3 people who actively watch TV that often.


No, the 722Vip's would just record the three shows on their respective "Tuner Two's" and you could still watch their "Tuner One's" with no interruptions.

This is also how it works with UVerse and DTV/TIVO Dual Tuners because you can tell them which tuners to use for recording.


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## VDP07

Bottom line seems to be, you need more tuners. Adding an additional Hopper would accomplish this and eliminate most of your issues. Maybe a DIRT member can assist you in getting that done.


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## Daniel

Yea, I'm not getting it either. Why don't you just record the game? Problem solved.


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## patmurphey

Tim_Carson said:


> ...The only way you can use this system is to manually set each recording.
> You can't use the "Seek and Record" feature unless you review the shows it selects for you on a regular basis, say once a day.
> 
> For example, you have it set to record only two shows, "The Big Bang Theory" and "Community".
> You haven't seen all of the Community's, so you want it to record all of those and only new Big Bang.
> 
> It will start recording "Community" and "The Big Bang Theory" at 8:00PM pst on Thursday night.
> Suppose you are watching "Thursday Night Football" Live on the third TV.
> If any other channel decides to air a re-run of "Community" at either 8:00, 8:30 or 9:00 it will interrupt your Live Football Game and switch over to record the re-run.
> You get no warning, just BAM!, you lost all of the live buffer for the last couple of hours of the game and are now fumbling the buttons trying to get back to see if they scored or not.
> 
> What Dish just finished telling me is that I can't use the Seek function anymore and I have to manually set it to record anything I want to record.
> 
> I think the old way was much better, but again that's just my opinion.


If you set timers from the guide they will not record on another channel. You are building yourself a monster by using seek for any thing other than to make sure that you don't miss something starting (or restarting) outside the guide range. Once seek triggers a program, you are better off converting it to a guide timer. Think of all the shows running in syndication on multiple channels. Dish is wrong to tell you not to use seek, but you are complicating things by using it where there are better options. Use the Dish receiver the way it was designed. And, you do need another Hopper if you need that many tuners.


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## James Long

Tim_Carson said:


> The only way you can use this system is to manually set each recording.


I see four ways ...
1) Turn on PTA and allow the receiver to catch programs on the big four channels during prime time.
2) Find a program in the guide, select it and choose to "Record This" or "Record Series Timer" (similar to the name based recordings on previous receivers).
3) Use "Seek and Record" to record based on title or description (similar to DISHPass on previous receivers).
4) Press "Record" while watching something. (Caution, you can not "record from beginning" as on other receivers.)

The only option I have not found from previous receivers is a time based recording. Any one else find that?



> You can't use the "Seek and Record" feature unless you review the shows it selects for you on a regular basis, say once a day.


If your search terms are vague you will get too many hits ... just like with DISHPass.

My "Daily Schedule" extends to 4/7 ... A daily review is not needed. I usually review my schedule twice a week to skip programs I did not want to record.



> For example, you have it set to record only two shows, "The Big Bang Theory" and "Community".
> You haven't seen all of the Community's, so you want it to record all of those and only new Big Bang.
> 
> It will start recording "Community" and "The Big Bang Theory" at 8:00PM pst on Thursday night.
> Suppose you are watching "Thursday Night Football" Live on the third TV.
> If any other channel decides to air a re-run of "Community" at either 8:00, 8:30 or 9:00 it will interrupt your Live Football Game and switch over to record the re-run.
> You get no warning, just BAM!, you lost all of the live buffer for the last couple of hours of the game and are now fumbling the buttons trying to get back to see if they scored or not.


Do you have PTA disabled? These programs should be recording on your PTA tuner.

The live buffer is not a couple of hours long ... it is only an hour. If you want to watch more than an hour delayed and protect yourself set a timer. This is what I have been doing for NASCAR for years. You can watch it while it records - and if you get interrupted the show will be there later.

If you're not recording what you are watching you only have the hour buffer (or less if you changed channels). You will get a warning before the channel changes (just like before) but it can be missed if you're out of the room when it pops up. The solution is the same as before ... record important stuff.


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## phrelin

James Long said:


> The only option I have not found from previous receivers is a time based recording. Any one else find that?


James, do you mean you can't record, as I do, "The Daily Show" every weeknight at 10:00 pm Pacific Time as opposed to recording new episodes or every episode?

Given the unreliability of the guide, that is a critical option to have.


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## James Long

phrelin said:


> James, do you mean you can't record, as I do, "The Daily Show" every weeknight at 10:00 pm Pacific Time as opposed to recording new episodes or every episode?
> 
> Given the unreliability of the guide, that is a critical option to have.


You can still set this critical recording (and Colbert as well). I have them set as "Monday-Friday" recordings and they skip Friday when the name is not correct. They do not record the other times of the day with this setting.

What I have not found is the ability to set a timer for a channel and a length of time. On the 622 I can pick a channel and set a start and finish time. I don't see that option.


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## phrelin

James Long said:


> You can still set this critical recording (and Colbert as well). I have them set as "Monday-Friday" recordings and they skip Friday when the name is not correct. They do not record the other times of the day with this setting.
> 
> What I have not found is the ability to set a timer for a channel and a length of time. On the 622 I can pick a channel and set a start and finish time. I don't see that option.


Ok, thanks. I rarely set a recording using that feature. But I have. It's good to know what's not there when considering the Hopper.


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## Shades228

To be fair a good sales person should have asked enough questions to get the information so that they knew that this setup would not be good for the customers needs. I'm also sure that there's a huge push to get these out in the field too in the sales department. The OP could have done more research as well but I put this more on the sales person. If a new customer is upset within the first 2 weeks, due to equipment or programming, then the person who dealt with their order didn't do something properly. I believe this is true with any company FYI not just DISH and all companies are guilty of this at times.

This system is a step backwards for a lot of people who are used to every box having a tuner. I would call DISH or ask a DIRT member here if there is any order correction policy, and follow the advice of others who said to get a second hopper, or deal with the CEO email and state your case to get out of your agreement if you're saying that it was misrepresented to you if that was the case.


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## Blowgun

phrelin said:


> I said this before. Dish should not be selling these things to new customers. Dish is advertising them like they are the new iPad. But they aren't the old iPad with some upgrades and glitches.


Are you being cynical again. 

Seriously, I hear what you're saying. The thing of it is, the display should of had a blinking something or other letting the user know that a timer was about to fire in 3 minutes (which was better when the warning was 5 minutes). I couldn't imagine something as basic as some sort of flashing notification being omitted from the early firmware. That would be pure, uncut, stupid on DISH's part.


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## Stewart Vernon

Tim_Carson said:


> No, the 722Vip's would just record the three shows on their respective "Tuner Two's" and you could still watch their "Tuner One's" with no interruptions.
> 
> This is also how it works with UVerse and DTV/TIVO Dual Tuners because you can tell them which tuners to use for recording.


No they wouldn't... unless you had 3 ViP 722 receivers (and thus 6 tuners).

If you are comparing a Hopper (3 tuners) with 3 ViP 722 receivers (6 SAT tuners + 3 OTA tuners) then you aren't making a fair comparison at all.

You simply cannot do what you are trying to do with a single Hopper UNLESS all the stuff you wanted to set timers for was part of the PTA (primetime anytime) in which case you'd be recording 4 channels worth of content with one tuner and have 2 "free" tuners to watch live on the other Joeys.


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## jacmyoung

I am also shocked it does not have an abort popup option. How could they miss that? The quick fix might be to record the live show anytime you don't want interruption of the live show.

I do agree it was naive for the OP to think one Hooper could do the job of his previous three 722s. But still, no popup and abort option?


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## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> I am also shocked it does not have an abort popup option. How could they miss that?


The Hopper HAS a warning popup that allows you to stop the interruption.
DISH didn't miss it.


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## P Smith

How OP missed it ?


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## James Long

Several people have missed it. *The Hopper provides a warning.*

And you CAN "go back without spending 2 minutes pressing buttons/unplugging boxes to stop the DVR." Press STOP, press RECALL, you're back.


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## jacmyoung

"James Long" said:


> Several people have missed it. The Hopper provides a warning.
> 
> And you CAN "go back without spending 2 minutes pressing buttons/unplugging boxes to stop the DVR." Press STOP, press RECALL, you're back.


Well then I hope OP reads this before he pays DISH $500 and switch back to Uverse.


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## FarmerBob

MikeW said:


> Thanks for your real-life experience. It makes my decision to do nothing right now seem like the right choice.


+1


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## gtal98

Tim_Carson said:


> I'll try one more time to explain what happens.
> 
> The only way you can use this system is to manually set each recording.
> You can't use the "Seek and Record" feature unless you review the shows it selects for you on a regular basis, say once a day.
> 
> For example, you have it set to record only two shows, "The Big Bang Theory" and "Community".
> You haven't seen all of the Community's, so you want it to record all of those and only new Big Bang.
> 
> It will start recording "Community" and "The Big Bang Theory" at 8:00PM pst on Thursday night.
> Suppose you are watching "Thursday Night Football" Live on the third TV.
> If any other channel decides to air a re-run of "Community" at either 8:00, 8:30 or 9:00 it will interrupt your Live Football Game and switch over to record the re-run.
> You get no warning, just BAM!, you lost all of the live buffer for the last couple of hours of the game and are now fumbling the buttons trying to get back to see if they scored or not.
> 
> What Dish just finished telling me is that I can't use the Seek function anymore and I have to manually set it to record anything I want to record.
> 
> I think the old way was much better, but again that's just my opinion.


I think your problem stems from using the 'Seek and Record' feature instead of just setting a normal series timer. Because I only set normal series timers and my Hopper pops up a message on the screen to give me the option to Allow or Cancel a recording that's about to happen (even if I'm already on the correct channel which is weird). Try cancelling all of your S&R timers and just setup normal timers. Find the Community on NBC in the guide and press record and select Series Timer - then set the options as required. This "limits" the timer to only look at NBC to record episodes of Community. A S&R timer constantly scans every single channel you subscribe to to find it.


----------



## tampa8

Seems to be a misunderstanding on several things by the OP, leading to quickly writing how bad the product is, instead of asking questions.


----------



## jacmyoung

Why can't S&R also have the abort option? A live viewing should always be given the first priority.


----------



## Tim_Carson

It seems the people here know more about the system than the tech's I'm calling at Dish do.

Someone from Dish (not the same company that installed it) came out last night and I printed out the useful posts from this thread and handed it to him. 
He seemed not to know a few of the things being said, especially the parts about adding an additional Hopper to solve the complaint we have about it.

He ran a test of what happens when three timers go off at the same time and he agreed that there is no message being displayed warning of the pending recording.
He also noted that one of the three recordings was just a black screen, no video or audio.
He then spent about an hour on the phone talking to someone else about it while running the tests again.
You could see something flash briefly on the screen about one minute before the recording was set to start, but it was so fast you could not read it.

While running the tests, he also found out that the Slingbox wasn't working properly.
It would only allow Live TV, no Guide, no DVR access and the response was extremely slow. (according to him, we personally never got so far as to try the Slingbox).
We have Ultra100 Charter Internet at 100Mbps Down / 5Mbps Up, so there was no reason for it to act so lethargic.

This all prompted him to replace both the main Hopper and the Slingbox and now it seems to be running better and now it does show a "Warning Screen" before it takes over the receiver. 
Also the Slingbox is now working what seems to be normal.

I asked him to install a 2nd Hopper so I could see what it would look/work like, but since the only other Hopper he had with him was the one he just pulled out he could not do it.

I asked him if I would "see" all six tuners on the "Red Button" screen and he said he did not know.
He did say that if it did work, it would cost $199.00 one-time to rent another Hopper, plus an additional $10.00 a month to use it, but I'd get some credit for removing one of the Joeys.

Also Dish did call back and said it would cost $430.00 to cancel so we can switch back to UVerse.
We like the picture on Dish much better, and if they can show us that adding a second Hopper will work the way UVerse does, we will pay the extra price and keep it.


----------



## Tim_Carson

tampa8 said:


> Seems to be a misunderstanding on several things by the OP, leading to quickly writing how bad the product is, instead of asking questions.


I'll take exception to that remark.

I would have liked to have known the current limitations of this system before I had it installed.

The people selling it are not properly trained in the features and current limitations of it.
It was a Technician at Dish that told us to stop a recording by unplugging one of the units.
It was a Technician at Dish that said there is not supposed to be a warning message before a recording starts.
It was a Technician at Dish that doesn't know anything about what would happen if we install a 2nd Hopper and not use it for recording.
It was a Technician at Dish that that said we cannot use the Seek and Record feature.

They should have told us in the beginning that we would need two Hoppers to use this new setup like we did with the old Vip722 units. 
We would have ordered it with two, so it's still Buyer Beware: Depending on your expectations and the way you use the system, they will sell you a system that will not do what you want/need.


----------



## clotter

Tim_Carson said:


> I'll take exception to that remark.
> 
> I would have liked to have known the current limitations of this system before I had it installed.
> 
> The people selling it are not properly trained in the features and current limitations of it.
> It was a Technician at Dish that told us to stop a recording by unplugging one of the units.
> It was a Technician at Dish that said there is not supposed to be a warning message before a recording starts.
> It was a Technician at Dish that doesn't know anything about what would happen if we install a 2nd Hopper and not use it for recording.
> It was a Technician at Dish that that said we cannot use the Seek and Record feature.
> 
> They should have told us in the beginning that we would need two Hoppers to use this new setup like we did with the old Vip722 units.
> We would have ordered it with two, so it's still Buyer Beware: Depending on your expectations and the way you use the system, they will sell you a system that will not do what you want/need.


Hey Tim, all in all a really useful and informative post. You brought up some real issues that people need to be aware of.

Being such a new system, nobody is completely aware of it's limitations and idiosyncrasies. Particularly someone like you with all your experiences being with the 722 DVRs.

You were let down by the technicians at Dish who should be your first order of contact to resolve problems. It didn't help that you received a bum unit.

Hopefully, another Hopper will resolve most of your timer related issues. Good luck.


----------



## 356B

This product has been vetted around here and elsewhere for months. CES had a Youtube video with a comprehensive evaluation. Those who seem to be unhappy with the new units may have not done proper preparation prior to installation. The vip922 had legendary issues after the rollout as did the vip622 before that, it seems to be part of the process with Dish TV and perhaps other programming providers, my only experience is with Dish. 
The point is with any new system there's going to be problems. Perhaps waiting an appropriate period of time for the vetters to vet would be a more prudent move for new comers to the game.


----------



## sigma1914

Tim was smart enough to use the internet to find a forum to complain on (there's others I'm sure he visited), so he should of done internet research before hand. People like us give honest answers because we're not selling stuff.


----------



## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> Why can't S&R also have the abort option? A live viewing should always be given the first priority.


All timers, including Seek and Record (DISHPass), have the "abort option".



Tim_Carson said:


> It seems the people here know more about the system than the tech's I'm calling at Dish do.


Perhaps the problem is that the techs spend more time installing and walking away or sitting in a phone center than actually using the devices? We have some good CSRs and other DISH employees here who do actually have the devices in their homes and do have actual experience ... and there are a lot of non-employees here on the forum who have more time to use the system.

The system is designed to give a warning. Setting three timers at an identical time is an acid test ... I suppose it could happen. So I just tried it myself ... three S&R recordings for programs that would hit at the same time. Warnings were seen on the Hopper and the Joey in use at the time.

DISH has many employees ... I'm not going to say that there isn't one of them that might have given you bad information but in this forum let's concentrate on the truth - the way the receiver operates - and not continue to spread false information about what somebody told somebody.

Recordings can be stopped by pressing the STOP button. Just like on previous receivers.
Recordings taking over a tuner provide a warning. Just like on previous receivers.
A second Hopper will work independently. Just like previous receivers (DISH is working on making systems with two Hoppers work together.)
Seek and Record works just as well as DISHPass did on previous receivers.

BTW: Leasing a second Hopper will cost up to $199 for the one time upgrade but will only cost $7 per month after that point. (Some people may be able to get a better deal on the upgrade fee.)


----------



## Tim_Carson

356B said:


> This product has been vetted around here and elsewhere for months. CES had a Youtube video with a comprehensive evaluation. Those who seem to be unhappy with the new units may have not done proper preparation prior to installation. The vip922 had legendary issues after the rollout as did the vip622 before that, it seems to be part of the process with Dish TV and perhaps other programming providers, my only experience is with Dish.
> The point is with any new system there's going to be problems. Perhaps waiting an appropriate period of time for the vetters to vet would be a more prudent move for new comers to the game.


I agree, and Dish should have their CS/TS people watch the videos and read the forms so they can learn how their own system works...

Even after watching the Youtube videos there are many things they have not covered yet (at least on all of them I can locate).
None of them go into any technical details about using the system with Two Hoppers and Three Joeys, setting multiple timers using the available features simultaneously (Seek, Series Based and Instant Recording as such), none of them go into any detail about using the system with the Sling adapter while all of the above is running, and so on.

Forms like this are still building the database for prospective users to do their due diligence.


----------



## James Long

Attached screen shots showing ...
Three Seek & Record timers set for programs starting at Noon Eastern.
The warning seen before the recording attempted to take over my screen.
(With apologies for the resolution of these snapshots.)


----------



## jacmyoung

"James Long" said:


> Attached screen shots showing ...
> Three Seek & Record timers set for programs starting at Noon Eastern.
> The warning seen before the recording attempted to take over my screen.
> (With apologies for the resolution of these snapshots.)


I guess OP's complaint is resolved then, although not until after six pages of posting telling him why he must have two Hoppers.

Ok obviously two Hoppers will serve his family better, but his issue was no abort option, which turned out not true.


----------



## TBoneit

Shades228 said:


> To be fair a good sales person should have asked enough questions to get the information so that they knew that this setup would not be good for the customers needs. I'm also sure that there's a huge push to get these out in the field too in the sales department. The OP could have done more research as well but I put this more on the sales person. If a new customer is upset within the first 2 weeks, due to equipment or programming, then the person who dealt with their order didn't do something properly. I believe this is true with any company FYI not just DISH and all companies are guilty of this at times.
> 
> This system is a step backwards for a lot of people who are used to every box having a tuner. I would call DISH or ask a DIRT member here if there is any order correction policy, and follow the advice of others who said to get a second hopper, or deal with the CEO email and state your case to get out of your agreement if you're saying that it was misrepresented to you if that was the case.


I've dealt with this sort of issue in the past with custom computer systems

The customer comes in and wants a computer system for x, y, & z
I ask specifically about playing games. I am told no games. I don't want to pay extra for gaming.
I configure the system, we build it, deliver it. Less than 1 week later I hear the complaint, "It won't play games"

Who is at fault?
Me?
Customer?

I know who I blame, The customer that said no games.


----------



## P Smith

jacmyoung said:


> I guess OP's complaint is resolved then, although not until after six pages of posting telling him why he must have two Hoppers.
> 
> Ok obviously two Hoppers will serve his family better, but his issue was no abort option, *which turned out not true*.


It was true for his particular box - so, after it was replaced, the issue gone.
Just read his posts before pile up on him.


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> It was true for his particular box - so, after it was replaced, the issue gone.
> Just read his posts before pile up on him.


So why would the behavior be any different? Stuck on an old beta version where that issue is fixed? A proper install would put the current firmware (at last word S204) on Hoppers.

I can understand where a physical problem with a Hopper system (bad hard drive, bad ports, bad tuner, bad node, bad dish or bad cabling) would lead to different results on different Hoppers - no physical problem would explain why a popup didn't appear. It would have to be a mental problem.

There seems to be a lot of piling on against DISH, especially from people who have never laid hands on a Hopper. Some who may not even have DISH service. So lets not lose focus on the problem and the fact that the Hopper does provide the warnings requested and does not require a power cycle to stop a recording.


----------



## P Smith

James Long said:


> So why would the behavior be any different? Stuck on an old beta version where that issue is fixed? A proper install would put the current firmware (at last word S204) on Hoppers.
> 
> I can understand where a physical problem with a Hopper system (bad hard drive, bad ports, bad tuner, bad node, bad dish or bad cabling) would lead to different results on different Hoppers - no physical problem would explain why a popup didn't appear. *It would have to be a mental problem.
> *
> There seems to be a lot of piling on against DISH, especially from people who have never laid hands on a Hopper. Some who may not even have DISH service. So lets not lose focus on the problem and the fact that the Hopper does provide the warnings requested and does not require a power cycle to stop a recording.


No need to switch to be personal. It's a forum to discuss H/J functioning.


----------



## 356B

jacmyoung said:


> I guess OP's complaint is resolved then, although not until after six pages of posting telling him why he must have two Hoppers.
> 
> Ok obviously two Hoppers will serve his family better, but his issue was no abort option, which turned out not true.


Personally I think if your doing any multi room setup two Hoppers is the answer. To me the joey seems like half the deal, no PIP, ethernet yet? I'm using it for guest quarters and work shop, similar to a mirror without the hassles.


----------



## jacmyoung

"356B" said:


> Personally I think if your doing any multi room setup two Hoppers is the answer. To me the joey seems like half the deal, no PIP, ethernet yet? I'm using it for guest quarters and work shop, similar to a mirror without the hassles.


It looks to me if one needs to support no more than two TVs, one Hopper and one Joey would do fine. Anything more a two-Hopper system is the only option.

I am waiting to see how the integration of two Hoppers turns out before making the decision.


----------



## lparsons21

jacmyoung said:


> It looks to me if one needs to support no more than two TVs, one Hopper and one Joey would do fine. Anything more a two-Hopper system is the only option.
> 
> I am waiting to see how the integration of two Hoppers turns out before making the decision.


Also a single Hopper makes good sense if the vast majority of what you watch is recorded and not live. That's my viewing mode. And since broadcast is a big part of it, and the 'cable' type channel endlessly repeat their shows, it appears to me that it would be a simple setup that would work well for more than 2 TVs.


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## James Long

P Smith said:


> No need to switch to be personal. It's a forum to discuss H/J functioning.


I was referring to the receiver having a mental problem, not you, the OP or any other person.


----------



## tampa8

Tim_Carson said:


> I'll take exception to that remark.
> 
> I would have liked to have known the current limitations of this system before I had it installed.
> 
> The people selling it are not properly trained in the features and current limitations of it.
> It was a Technician at Dish that told us to stop a recording by unplugging one of the units.
> It was a Technician at Dish that said there is not supposed to be a warning message before a recording starts.
> It was a Technician at Dish that doesn't know anything about what would happen if we install a 2nd Hopper and not use it for recording.
> It was a Technician at Dish that that said we cannot use the Seek and Record feature.
> 
> They should have told us in the beginning that we would need two Hoppers to use this new setup like we did with the old Vip722 units.
> We would have ordered it with two, so it's still Buyer Beware: Depending on your expectations and the way you use the system, they will sell you a system that will not do what you want/need.


My post is in response to assertions in your original post that are not true. The warning issue, how to set timers, and even the the tuner issues that you talk about, you are comparing three tuners to six. I don't think Dish, Direct, etc is going to explain you now have three tuners, you had six, do you understand there will be limitations...... 
As someone or others said, you have three tuners, what did you expect if three are set to record and one person is watching live? There is a warning, and use of timers was explained in other posts...
It's all new, I know that, but it just rubs the wrong way to see posts blasting Dish or equipment with information that isn't correct or the user misunderstands.


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## P Smith

James Long said:


> I was referring to the receiver having a mental problem, not you, the OP or any other person.


If you would stated it before ... or, at least, put it double quotas as it related to the box, not a human...


----------



## LazhilUT

Tim_Carson said:


> I'll try one more time to explain what happens.
> 
> The only way you can use this system is to manually set each recording.
> You can't use the "Seek and Record" feature unless you review the shows it selects for you on a regular basis, say once a day.
> 
> For example, you have it set to record only two shows, "The Big Bang Theory" and "Community".
> You haven't seen all of the Community's, so you want it to record all of those and only new Big Bang.
> 
> It will start recording "Community" and "The Big Bang Theory" at 8:00PM pst on Thursday night.
> Suppose you are watching "Thursday Night Football" Live on the third TV.
> If any other channel decides to air a re-run of "Community" at either 8:00, 8:30 or 9:00 it will interrupt your Live Football Game and switch over to record the re-run.
> You get no warning, just BAM!, you lost all of the live buffer for the last couple of hours of the game and are now fumbling the buttons trying to get back to see if they scored or not.
> 
> What Dish just finished telling me is that I can't use the Seek function anymore and I have to manually set it to record anything I want to record.
> 
> I think the old way was much better, but again that's just my opinion.


The problem is that you're setting to records ALL episodes...if you limit it to New episodes only, it will not record the re-runs.


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## patmurphey

There is no hope for the OP if he thinks initiating recordings via clicking on the program in the guide is "manual".


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## Jon W

This thread reminds me of why I never buy a Dish Network product that is less than a year old. I learned this that hard way in the late 90's with the Dishplayer and it seems true today


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## jdskycaster

I am getting mine installed tomorrow. I have had great experiences with Dish customer support but I have to admit the first rep I spoke with on the phone yesterday did not fully understand how the system works. I was told that with 1 hopper and 3 joey's the each of the 4 TV's would have simultaneous independent access to live an recorded content. I asked how that could be accomplished with only 3 tuners and was told that is just how it works. I was also told that it has the built in ability to watch on remote computers and away from home via the internet. I asked if the sling capability was built in and was told yes that is how it can do this. I then spoke with tech support and they cleared all of this misinformation up. I would think there would be some basic configuration script for the sales reps so that they could make proper recommendations to customers based on the equipment they already have installed. This would be difficult for every customer that calls but it should be an easy one for existing Dish customers. 

Based only on first glance of the product on the website and before coming to any of the forums for further research I can see how many customer's could become confused on how this system is actually designed to work. I also think the 2000 hours should be qualified in the advertising as that is a very misleading specification. Once I spoke with a knowledgeable support person I was able to quickly confirm my thoughts right away that I would require 2 hoppers to replace 2 vip722's and a vip612. I hope my install goes smoothly tomorrow and even with the reported bugs I am looking forward to the new system. It will be nice to ditch all of the modulators I am using currently and along with a bit of wireless HD distribution finally have all 7 HDTV's setup with the HD programming I have been paying for.


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## caam1

I had a 2 Hopper / 3 Joey system installed last week. Since my wife works evenings, and records a lot of stuff, I knew up front that I would need 2 Hoppers. She uses one to record her shows, and I use the second Hopper for watching live sports. Since the Joeys can link to either Hopper, everyone is happy. The biggest issue so far is the fact that that you can't change the 1am update time. My wife often works until 12am and watches TV til 2 or 3am. She doesn' like the 1am popup that says the receiver is about to shut down for the update download. She has to remember to extend it every hour. When we had the 622s, one was set to update in the afternoon to avoid this problem.
I did get a lot of bogus information from several of the CSRs when I called to ask about the system. Since I did my research befor I called Dish, I knew the information was bogus and ignored it. But it is bad that the customer knows more about the system than the people selling it!


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## P Smith

caam1 said:


> I had a 2 Hopper / 3 Joey system installed last week. Since my wife works evenings, and records a lot of stuff, I knew up front that I would need 2 Hoppers. She uses one to record her shows, and I use the second Hopper for watching live sports. Since the Joeys can link to either Hopper, everyone is happy. The biggest issue so far is the fact that that you can't change the 1am update time. My wife often works until 12am and watches TV til 2 or 3am. She doesn' like the 1am popup that says the receiver is about to shut down for the update download. She has to remember to extend it every hour. When we had the 622s, one was set to update in the afternoon to avoid this problem.
> I did get a lot of bogus information from several of the CSRs when I called to ask about the system. Since I did my research befor I called Dish, I knew the information was bogus and ignored it. But it is bad that the customer knows more about the system than the people selling it!


Sure. it is.

Pressurize the CSR to open a SW bug's ticket next time - don't waste your for troubleshooting.


----------



## amenic

lparsons21 said:


> It wouldn't be any different on a HR34 with RVU clients from Direct either. In the case of server and clients with no tuners, setting up timers becomes more difficult if live viewing is a priority while still wanting to record a slew of things. In both cases you can set priority for recordings, but live TV doesn't have a priority that I can see.


The big difference is that a hopper REPLACES the old dvr systems, while HR34 INCLUDES them. With dish, if you want to have a Hopper, you have to scrap your old 2 room sharing systems. With The HR34, you have the OPTION for RVU devices, which are going to be effectively TVs/BlueRays/Etc with the Joey ability build in. But at the same time, they still have the ability to share their recordings with any hd receiver, just like all Directv's HD-dvrs did before them. An HR34/HR24/HR21/etc can share recordings with up to 8 hd boxes, and because each of those hd boxes has their OWN tuner, they NEVER get live tv interrupted. This has been there for years. Install whole home, get full high definition sharing. And with the HR34, you get at 5 tuners in the mix, as opposed to 2 "+4"


----------



## komondor

I can't for the life of me understand why the hopper only has 3 tuners when it is made to support more than 2 TVs plus the cost is high for some people it might make sense but a standard DVR with 2 tuners will work better and 2 DVRs = 4 tuners costs less than a Joey and 3 hoppers. Now 2 Joeys and 2 hoppers would be ideal for a 4 TV system as you would then have 6 tuners but the cost is more than for 3 DVRs?


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## jdskycaster

^A standard DVR with 2 tuners works better than a Hopper with 3 tuners and the ability to record 4 primetime streams with ony one tuner? So far I have been using the 2 hopper and 3 joey system for four days now and it is far and away better than the 2 vip722's and vip 612 I had before and the monthly cost is only $4 more. 

I spent some time over the weekend at my sisters who has Direct TV. Her DVR was so sluggish that I would have personally thrown that thing out the window long ago.


----------



## James Long

komondor said:


> I can't for the life of me understand why the hopper only has 3 tuners when it is made to support more than 2 TVs plus the cost is high for some people it might make sense but a standard DVR with 2 tuners will work better and 2 DVRs = 4 tuners costs less than a Joey and 3 hoppers. Now 2 Joeys and 2 hoppers would be ideal for a 4 TV system as you would then have 6 tuners but the cost is more than for 3 DVRs?


Three tuners is what fits on the 3000 MHz coax with DISH's stacking. They could have gone with a SWM type system that stacks individual transponders instead of full polarities of each tuned satellite but DISH followed their path.

Cost only affects those paying for their receivers. One Hopper and up to three Joeys are free to a new subscriber and usually $99 for existing subscribers.

IIRC DISH used to charge $99 for each additional DVR ... so getting to the three DVR level (six tuners) was $198 ... basically the same price as getting to the two Hopper level (six tuners) for $199.


----------



## dexware

The 3000mhz has little to do with it.


----------



## James Long

dexware said:


> The 3000mhz has little to do with it.


Sure it does. DISH has chosen to stack full polarities on the coax feeding the Hopper. A full satellite polarity is 500 MHz. The first tuner uses 950-1450 MHz, the second tuner uses 1650-2150 MHz and the third tuner uses 2500-3000 MHz. The first and second tuner bands are the same as DISH uses on DP and DPP technology LNBs. Want another tuner? Find another 500 MHz ... at least that is DISH's approach.

DirecTV took a different approach and created a switch that provides either five or eight satellite transponders in narrower bands, plus a band that is always set to a transponder with full EPG. The narrower bands make it easier to have multiple tuners on the same coax. And DirecTV's method allows those tuners to be in separate receivers sharing a coax. DISH's method requires an exclusive coax between the switch and each receiver (or in the case of the Hopper, an exclusive coax between the hub and each Hopper with only non-satellite tuners such as the Joey or HIC sharing that coax).

It is a choice of technology ... DISH's choice of full satellite polarities requires cable that passes up to 3000 MHz.


----------



## patmurphey

komondor said:


> I can't for the life of me understand why the hopper only has 3 tuners when it is made to support more than 2 TVs plus the cost is high for some people it might make sense but a standard DVR with 2 tuners will work better and * 2 DVRs = 4 tuners costs less than a Joey and 3 hoppers*. Now 2 Joeys and 2 hoppers would be ideal for a 4 TV system as you would then have 6 tuners but the cost is more than for 3 DVRs?


Not for 4 HD TVs!!!! Your last sentence is correct 2/h2/j is perfect for 4 TVs and has no more fees than 1h/3j.


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## lparsons21

patmurphey said:


> Not for 4 HD TVs!!!! Your last sentence is correct 2/h2/j is perfect for 4 TVs and has no more fees than 1h/3j.


Well it all depends on how much all 4 are in use, and how they are used. If they are all heavily used for live TV, then yeah, 2 Hoppers makes a lot of sense.

OTOH, if most everything is time-delayed via DVR, or some sets are only used little, like a TV in the bedroom, then 1 Hopper makes good sense too and is a cheaper way since you don't pay the extra upfront fee for the 2nd Hopper.


----------



## patmurphey

You will seriously regret not springing for that $100, later. Consider someone watching live TV on the Hopper with 2 shows recording - what can any Joey watch?


----------



## david_jr

patmurphey said:


> You will seriously regret not springing for that $100, later. Consider someone watching live TV on the Hopper with 2 shows recording - what can any Joey watch?


I haven't personally upgraded yet, but from all the reading I would agree whole heartedly.


----------



## FarmerBob

James Long said:


> Sure it does. DISH has chosen to stack full polarities on the coax feeding the Hopper. A full satellite polarity is 500 MHz. The first tuner uses 950-1450 MHz, the second tuner uses 1650-2150 MHz and the third tuner uses 2500-3000 MHz. The first and second tuner bands are the same as DISH uses on DP and DPP technology LNBs. Want another tuner? Find another 500 MHz ... at least that is DISH's approach.
> 
> DirecTV took a different approach and created a switch that provides either five or eight satellite transponders in narrower bands, plus a band that is always set to a transponder with full EPG. The narrower bands make it easier to have multiple tuners on the same coax. And DirecTV's method allows those tuners to be in separate receivers sharing a coax. DISH's method requires an exclusive coax between the switch and each receiver (or in the case of the Hopper, an exclusive coax between the hub and each Hopper with only non-satellite tuners such as the Joey or HIC sharing that coax).
> 
> It is a choice of technology ... DISH's choice of full satellite polarities requires cable that passes up to 3000 MHz.


This is the way they see it . . .


----------



## P Smith

FarmerBob said:


> This is the way they see it . . .


Check MoCA specs (at least for the H/J combo) - it has wider bandwidth.


----------



## FarmerBob

P Smith said:


> Check MoCA specs (at least for the H/J combo) - it has wider bandwidth.


The pic was from page 3 of DISH's Hopper Joey System Job Aid document. Where it also says that you can have a VIP with the Hopper system on page 9. This doc answered all my install questions. When someone asks me if they need to draw me a picture, I say "yes". They speak a thousand words. Now all I have to do is wait for the "kinks' to be worked out and more than one confirmation that these will work via Cat5/6 connection and I'm jumping.


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## FarmerBob

356B said:


> This product has been vetted around here and elsewhere for months. CES had a Youtube video with a comprehensive evaluation. Those who seem to be unhappy with the new units may have not done proper preparation prior to installation. The vip922 had legendary issues after the rollout as did the vip622 before that, it seems to be part of the process with Dish TV and perhaps other programming providers, my only experience is with Dish.
> The point is with any new system there's going to be problems. Perhaps waiting an appropriate period of time for the vetters to vet would be a more prudent move for new comers to the game.


Vetting is prior to official release or announcement. That's the point of vetting. To make sure that the product or person is in good standing before public exposure. This is the same as Apple having buyers of their new toys be, in all actuality, their Beta Testers.

vet: noun, verb, vet·ted, vet·ting. Noun: to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.: _An expert vetted the manuscript _*before* _publication_.


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## fredpb

If I knew that I would have my current problems with the Hopper I have, I would never have "upgraded".


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## Wire Nut

FarmerBob said:


> and more than one confirmation that these will work via Cat5/6 connection and I'm jumping.


You mean to use a twisted pair from data cable in place of coax for a Joey? Hmm interesting concept I'll get back to you on that...


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## James Long

Wire Nut said:


> You mean to use a twisted pair from data cable in place of coax for a Joey? Hmm interesting concept I'll get back to you on that...


There is the concept of using the Ethernet connectors on Hoppers and Joeys to route data instead of coax but one would not get the data speeds possible via MoCA and any issues on the home network would affect Joey viewing.


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## Wire Nut

I meant to take one pair from a cat5e cable (blue/bw) and adapt (balun for 75ohm) it to an f-connector to use on the client input port of a Joey, the other end of course similarly adapted and connected to client network. I have had to do this in the past for RF tv2 locations where there was no access and no coax installed, such as in a finished basement, but there was built in data cable. As long as multiple pairs are not used in parallel I wonder if this would work... 
Sorry this seems to have gone a bit off topic.


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## 356B

FarmerBob said:


> Vetting is prior to official release or announcement. That's the point of vetting. To make sure that the product or person is in good standing before public exposure. This is the same as Apple having buyers of their new toys be, in all actuality, their Beta Testers.
> 
> vet: noun, verb, vet·ted, vet·ting. Noun: to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.: _An expert vetted the manuscript _*before* _publication_.


I'll run a Mac against any PC made....sorry, I have apple stock, I mean stuff.
As far as the vetting issue, look, the 922 was the prototype of the Hopper. Anyone who has been around here or the other place for 5 minutes knew the issues it had. I had one, check that... I had two....pretty good unit once Sling was worked out. These Hoppers issue will pass too, I'd bet on it.
Thanks for the dictionary lesson.....but I was accurate, I stand by my comments. :grin:


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## bigdog9586

What is the either net connection on the back of the Hopper used for?


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## Stewart Vernon

bigdog9586 said:


> What is the either net connection on the back of the Hopper used for?


The ethernet connection is required to be able to purchase On Demand and PPV movies.


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## phrelin

Stewart Vernon said:


> The ethernet connection is required to be able to purchase On Demand and PPV movies.


Otherwise known as a critical future secondary revenue stream.


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## bigdog9586

Thank for the replies. I'm having a Hooper/Joey setup installed tomorrow and trying to get as much info in advance so I won't be completely Ignorant. But some info on this system is hard to find.


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