# Tips to reduce rain fade?



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

We are just entering our first 'rainy season' with DTV and we're getting far more rain fade than I had anticipated based on talking to others that have DTV.

We're in central NJ. Our standard round dish is mounted to the edge of the house, about 6' off the ground, with a clear line of sight. I don't feel like going out in the rain right now to check the angle on the mast, but the dish appears to me pointed fairly low toward the horizon. Singnal strength on clear days is high 90's across the board. But during any but the lightest rain, the "No Signal" msg pops on on off constantly . I've heard others on this forum say only a severe nor'easter knocks them out, so why is mine so sensitive?

Thanks,
ApK


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Considering how far North you live, I'd say transponder levels in the 90's are very good.

1) What are your receive levels on transponders 1 and 32? (just those 2)

2) What are your receive levels on transponders 4, 12, 18, 20, 26 and 28?
(don't worry if one or more of them are zero - that's normal)

Here''s the deal; Since you have only a single round dish, the transponder numbers in my 2nd question are your local spot beam transponders. Of these that are not zero, the ones you do receive *should be* among your highest readings because they are on a newer bird (DTV 4S) and because they are narrowly focused on your own general geographic area.

Rain fade is a very real phenomena that DOES adversely affect *ALL* satellite TV systems that use the Ku frequency band (12 Ghz).

There are some things you can do:
1) check to see that your dish is accurately aimed. 
2) make sure *NOTHING* is in the way of the dish "seeing" the satellite. "A clear view of the southern sky" means preciisely that. Totally unobstructed in the direction of the satellite. 
3) get a bigger dish (that's what we did)

The 18" dish is the basic standard dish. 
You can optionally purchase either a 24", 30" or 40" dish.
We bought the 40" (also called the 1-meter) dish.
Only my sometimes not-so-humble opinion, but it you're having problems with an 18" dish, upgrading to a 24" dish will only make a slight difference.
The 40" dish, by contrast, has 4 times as much capture area as the little 18" dish and hence pulls in 4 times as much signal.

Most neighborhood associations will allow the "full size" 1-meter (40") dish without squabbling. Check out the Winegard web site http://www.winegard.com for particulars.

*NOTE WELL* Even with the big 40" dish you will still experience some occasional rain fade, but the signal will stay in much longer and come back sooner than it does with the little 18" dish.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Take this with a grain of salt, as I have never tried it myself. But I have talked to several people that have said they covered the dish with a trash bag and swear that it really works at eliminating rain fade. I have seen dish covers that claim to get rid of rain fade, so I can see where the trash bag thing may work.

But as I said, I haven't tried it myself. My dish does good enough during storms that I see no need in trying it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You can read the long thread and will find many interesting facts.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=70360


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

ApK said:


> We're in central NJ.


I am also in Central NJ and even during the HUGE storm yesterday afternoon my signal did not go out. Even though it only lasted about an hour, the storm was so bad it caused a flash flood in some areas near me.

I would check other things besides your dish alignment. Ends of the cables, how sturdy is the dish mounted, trees in the way, etc.... as I rarely, if ever, have rain fade and its over 10+ years with DirecTV.

About the only time I have ever lost a signal was the Noreaster a year or so back.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

*URBAN LEGEND #1*

"covering" your dish with a trash bag or purchasing one of the fairly expensive canvas covers will help keep snow from accumulating on your dish, but *will not* have a significant (if any) impact on rain fade.

The phenomena of rain fade has to do with water droplets in the atmosphere absorbing the signal before it can reach your dish. Covering your dish affects only the last 24 inches of a 22,000 mile journey. If you have a "rain fade" problem with your lawn sprinkler, then yes, cover the dish. It will probably help, but it will not help in a rainstorm.

Bad coax or poorly-installed connectors (i.e., only finger-tight) can allow moisture ingress into the fittings. Any moisture in the line is *very bad* - ergo here again "covering the dish" might prevent moisture from getting into the line *if that's where it's getting in*. Moisture in the line (whether from a loose connector or from a pinhole in the cable) will appear as a short-circuit to the signal. Check your connectors; unscrew them and examine the center conductor. It should be bright and shiny. Look at the threads. There should be no evidence of any corrosion. Use some clear silicone grease (not silicone caulk) to *lightly* coat only the threads and screw the connectors back on. Use a small wrench to tighten them ¼ to ½ turn past finger-tight. Every connector, both outside and inside should always be 'wrench-tight'. If you can unscrew it with your fingers, then it wasn't "tight". I believe the actual tightening spec is something like 30 inch-pounds, which in my opinion might be overdoing it, especially on the back of your receiver.

Considering as you say, your signal levels are normally in the 90s, I'm not inclined to suspect a dish aligment problem, that is unless those "90" readings are only on your spot beam transponders (4, 12, 18, 20, 26, 28).

..


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I haven't gotten around to checking the signals ask asked about above, but in the meantime, where can I turn to learn more about the detail of this technology, like this 'spot beam' stuff you speak of?


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## scott T (Jul 6, 2006)

ApK said:


> I haven't gotten around to checking the signals ask asked about above, but in the meantime, where can I turn to learn more about the detail of this technology, like this 'spot beam' stuff you speak of?


Here is the chart on the local spot beams.

http://wvjw.info/dbs-beam/dtv4s.gif


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm really getting into TV since resubbing with D* last month. I don't yet know how bad rain fade will be here with the Phase III triple dish, but it was pretty bad with the 18-inch model in years past. Is there a gain antenna that will do all 3 birds at once? Winegard only sells one similar in size to the one I have.

D* makes it difficult to set up an individual dish for each satellite due to the switch being located in the LNBF, but I'm sure that could be done with new LNBs and external switches. Is that the only way to get more gain on 3 birds?

Thanks!


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

i cant help you too much but i do have a comment. ever sice i got my R15 my rain fade has gotten worse. on my standard reciever the picture will be fine but on R15 is will be searching during rain storms. is that just me or is that w/ everyones R15.

btw i have a 3LNB dish.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

dtv757 said:


> i cant help you too much but i do have a comment. ever sice i got my R15 my rain fade has gotten worse. on my standard reciever the picture will be fine but on R15 is will be searching during rain storms. is that just me or is that w/ everyones R15.
> 
> The one rain fade we have had since I subscribed, the R-15 went out sooner, and came back later, than the standard receiver, but just a few seconds difference.
> 
> They would need to be tuned to the same channel for a real comparison, and there is also the factor of a different output on the LNB being used between the two receivers. So it could be another factor, besides the receiver.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

dtv757 said:


> i cant help you too much but i do have a comment. ever sice i got my R15 my rain fade has gotten worse. on my standard reciever the picture will be fine but on R15 is will be searching during rain storms. is that just me or is that w/ everyones R15.
> 
> btw i have a 3LNB dish.


I think I could be that the DVR's take more power from the line then a standard receiver. I had the same issue last night and the R15 lost signal on the second tuner more than the first and the Tivo was having similar issues. But of them recorded the shows but the outages where in differnet places and different time periods but they were both recording the same channel (local CBS).


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I have noticed two bits of weirdness:
1. The other night during a short torential lightning storm, we A/B'ed the same live show on our R15 and our D11. The r15 pixlated constantly, the d11 hardly showed single glitch.

2. In the past (pre-10c8, and before I started seeing enough rain fade to prompt my starting this thread) we'd constantly get the "looking for signal" msg on the r15 while watching a recorded show during a storm, but when we'd then watch the show that was being recorded at the time, often there would be no breaks or glitches at all.



What's it all mean?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I am a broadcast engineer and have a couple of thoughts.

Remember that there are other variables here. The different receivers are fed from different cables from different LNB or switch ports. These devices could have different sensitivity levels, much as one car radio will be better than another at picking up weak stations. Or one cable could have more signal loss than the other.

BUT...since I have now read several posts on this site saying the DVR lost signal sooner, and mine does also, I am led to believe that the R15 is generally less sensitive than the D11...which is another way of saying that the R15 requires more signal input than the D11.

Which is the technical way of saying that the R15s "take more power from the line," as cabanaboy1977 said two posts back!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

paulman182 said:


> Which is the technical way of saying that the R15s "take more power from the line," as cabanaboy1977 said two posts back!


There are likely some issues related to the DVR versus non-DVR question. A DVR typically records what is being watched and plays it back on the fly. It is likely that it may take a DVR longer to recover as it has to find/reconstruct a "last good frame" as opposed to getting on with the live stream.

This doesn't explain why the R15 drops out earlier, but it may have something to do with the duration.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

I've noticed my locals will go out long before the national feeds. I believe locals are being spot beamed from 119. I guess the spot beam isn't as strong as the other signal? I've seen 119 go into the 30's (Usually it is in the 90's) while 110 and 101 are in the 70's and 80's.

This leads me to a question. Will technology ever progress to the point where rain fade and tree problems will all be but a thing of the past? I have sat radio and almost never goes out and that is on a moving object. I guess audio is much easier to beam down than TV.


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## mailiang (Jul 30, 2006)

My signal levels are almost the same with D as they were when I had E. With E I was running off of 2 locations, 110 and 119, with D one location, 101. For some reason however, I find that my signal doesn't recover as quickly as it did with E. Usually during a typical thunderstorm I would have to wait about 5 to 15 minutes when I had Dish, and I only had outages about 3 to 5 times a year. Since I have had Direct TV, which is about 3 weeks, I've lost service 4 times and it has taken as long as 30 to 45 minutes to recover, which can be pretty annoying. I've checked my system and everything is up to snuff, and I am now wondering if there is some other explanation on why E seems to have less problems with rain fade then D

Ian


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

I have the exact oposite problem my locals seem to held much better than the national feeds. 

A question about the 1 meter dishes I looked and could not tell could I mount a sat c kit LNB in one?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

igator99 said:


> Will technology ever progress to the point where rain fade and tree problems will all be but a thing of the past? I have sat radio and almost never goes out and that is on a moving object. I guess audio is much easier to beam down than TV.


It will likely get worse instead of better unless they throw up some real hot birds. The new frequency bands that D* is using are inherently more succeptible to being blocked by weather and foliage.

Lerger dishes are the answer and the one that nobody wants to hear.

Satellite radio continues to use the S band (2-4GHz) which is much lower frequency than Ku (11-13GHz) and Ka (18-20GHz). The lower the frequency, the better the signals ability to penetrate obstructions. This is also illustrated by the differences in propagation between AM and FM broadcast radio. AM will bounce around for miles (an AM station in the Portland, OR market (KXL 750) has to power down in the evening to protect WSB Atlanta, GA).

The radio weenies will note that the Ku and Ka bands are really much larger that I've stated, but the bands I've cited are where DBS typically lives.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

vikingguy said:


> A question about the 1 meter dishes I looked and could not tell could I mount a sat c kit LNB in one?


The feed horn and mounting distance from the dish are way off base for DBS reception.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

harsh said:


> It will likely get worse instead of better unless they throw up some real hot birds. The new frequency bands that D* is using are inherently more succeptible to being blocked by weather and foliage.
> 
> Lerger dishes are the answer and the one that nobody wants to hear.
> 
> ...


Larger dishes will rule out millions of customers with HOA's to deal with. I gathered the KA band feeds were weaker thus more prone to rain fade. I don't know but isn't DirecTV doing itself in by making rain fade more common with the new sats? Thanks for the information. I don't know very much about the different bands and frequencies. I wondered how sat radio was able to hit a moving target without rain fade. I have noticed that thick dense trees will knock it out for a second or two.


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

Thank you harsh I looked and it looks like winegard makes a 30 inch model that is will fit direct tv LNBs perfectly. The model number I am looking at is DS-2078. Is that the correct one?


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## jerry downing (Mar 7, 2004)

Another factor to consider is cable length. Even the best cable will cause some loss. A receiver which has a longer cable run will drop out first in the rain and come back last if all other factors are equal. 
A 40 inch dish will pick up four times the signal as an 18 inch dish as was previously stated but it will also have four times the wind load. Unless every effort is made to minimize dish movement, the 40 inch dish may experience more movement in the wind and make the situation worse.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

scott T said:


> Here is the chart on the local spot beams.
> 
> http://wvjw.info/dbs-beam/dtv4s.gif


GRRRR!!! AARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

Would I have LOVED to have had that info when I worked for them! I see that one is for the 101 satellite. Oh well, I guess I should have devoted all my off hours to scouring the net for info after a hard day of getting my liver ripped out by each customer while in tech support :hurah:


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Like *Paulman182* I too am a broadcast engineer, well, in a previous life it seems/ Original First Phone Lic # P1-17-17468 issued in KCMO in '68. Since then it's been reduced to mere wallpaper and replaced with the "General Radiotelephone License" Alas, I digress.

There's been several points made in this thread, several of them highly germain to the issue.

First of all, a MultiSwitch is an extremely lossy device and the larger it is (more ports) the worse that loss becomes. In terms of radio frequency energy (RF) an 8-port multiswitch will exhibit throughput loss of 10 dB or more. How much is 10 dB? It's a logrithmic scale, where 3 dB is 1/2 power and 6 dB is 1/4 power. 10 dB is 1/10 power and 20 dB is 1/100 power.

So if you lose 10 dB of your signal going through your multiswitch, that's a ratio of 10:1 power loss which is a *LOT*.

Secondly, as has also been previously mentioned, seldom will any two ports of a multiswitch exhibit the same amount of loss.

Thirdly, *anything* you place inline (other than an amplifier) is going to contribute to your signal losses.

Fourth, type of coax cable and its length will tremendously affect your signal loss. While there's no appreciable loss differences between ordinary RG6 and RG6 Quad-Shield, at satellite LNB frequencies between 950 Mhz and 1450 Mhz, RG6 is only a slight improvement over lamp cord. RG11 is approx only half as lossy, but it's also quite large, about the diameter of your little finger.

An inline amplifier will often help in situations where a multiswitch is involved or you have a long coax run, or both. However, an amplifier cannot amplify signals that are not there to begin with. In other words, the amplifier cannot eliminate rain fade, although it may very well improve things if you have only marginal signal readings on your receiver to start with, thus potentially raising the threshold before the picture drops out during fading conditions.

The "big dish" is "legal" regardless what your homeowner's association may try to tell you. Check the FCC ruling on this matter. It clearly states up to 1-meter, and larger in Alaska. Here for your viewing pleasure is a photo of the 1-meter Winegard DS3101 alongside the new AT9 dish. The Chimney mount, by the way, is the ONLY way to do this and get it absolutely rock-stable.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

vikingguy said:


> I have the exact oposite problem my locals seem to held much better than the national feeds.
> 
> A question about the 1 meter dishes I looked and could not tell could I mount a sat c kit LNB in one?


You certainly may, but not as a "2nd" LNB. The round sat dishes, regardless of size, can only accommodate 1 LNB pointed at 1 satellite.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

P Smith said:


> You can read the long thread and will find many interesting facts.
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=70360


Well, interesting folklore and urban legends perhaps. You're right, it's a long thread. Long on old wives tales but short of facts except to say that none of the urban legends work.

A dish cover (i.e., garbage sack) or expensive canvas cover over the dish would probably help to keep the snow off, but won't help with rain fade. The signal has already traveled 22,000 miles. Protecting the last 24 inches isn't going to help.

What you need is a dead-level mount that is solidly rock-stable and couple that with accurate and precise alignment of a high-gain dish. In extreme cases that may entail going to individual discreet dishes rather than a combo, example: (left-to-right, 101 - 110 - 119)


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Don't laugh. Try this and you will be impressed. Promise.

Clean your dish reflective surface. The bird droppings do not focus a signal to the LNB's very well.

Then --- rub a couple of coats of a product called "RainX" on the dish surface. This is the stuff that is sold for car windows.

The rain between you and the satellite doesn't have nearly as much negative affect on your signal as the thick coating of water on the surface of the dish during heavy rains.

A trash bag or even the canvas covers cause signal attenuation. The 'RainX' does not. 

Yup, insultingly simple. And it works.


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

Cap'n Preshoot;626417 said:


> You certainly may, but not as a "2nd" LNB. The round sat dishes, regardless of size, can only accommodate 1 LNB pointed at 1 satellite.


Yep I have 3 seperate dishes for 101 110 and 119. Just looking for any edge for signal strength is all. My plans kind of got messed up by 110 not coming in where I hoped it would tree growth got me arg. Since I have to mount a new pole thought I might as well do a bigger dish as well. Since most of my HD feeds are there for now figured extra rain fade protetion could not hurt.


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;626422 said:


> Well, interesting folklore and urban legends perhaps. You're right, it's a long thread. Long on old wives tales but short of facts except to say that none of the urban legends work.
> 
> A dish cover (i.e., garbage sack) or expensive canvas cover over the dish would probably help to keep the snow off, but won't help with rain fade. The signal has already traveled 22,000 miles. Protecting the last 24 inches isn't going to help.
> 
> What you need is a dead-level mount that is solidly rock-stable and couple that with accurate and precise alignment of a high-gain dish. In extreme cases that may entail going to individual discreet dishes rather than a combo, example: (left-to-right, 101 - 110 - 119)


Wow captain that is awesome. If you don't mind I'm going to take a few pictures of my chimmeny and let you see if you think that setup is possible for me. I think I have bigger tree issues than you do.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Cap'n Preshoot;626417 said:


> You certainly may, but not as a "2nd" LNB. The round sat dishes, regardless of size, can only accommodate 1 LNB pointed at 1 satellite.


Objection ! 

I'm using 1m offset dish with 5 LNBFs, started with SD105, then add two more for 101W, 97W satellites. Other 1m dish holding 118.75W, 121W and 129W.

I wouldnt discuss out of focal point position of those additional LNBFs, I know, I know - the signal level more then enough for my needs.


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## mailiang (Jul 30, 2006)

> First of all, a MultiSwitch is an extremely lossy device and the larger it is (more ports) the worse that loss becomes. In terms of radio frequency energy (RF) an 8-port multiswitch will exhibit throughput loss of 10 dB or more. How much is 10 dB? It's a logrithmic scale, where 3 dB is 1/2 power and 6 dB is 1/4 power. 10 dB is 1/10 power and 20 dB is 1/100 power.


Cap: Since the multi switch is amplified, wouldn't that help compensate for the signal loss? Also, as I mentioned in my last post , D seems to suffer from longer intervals of rain fade then then E with similar signal readings. What would your explanation be for this, or in other words, what are the transmission differences if any, between Direct and Dish?

Ian


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Objection !
> 
> I'm using 1m offset dish with 5 LNBFs, started with SD105, then add two more for 101W, 97W satellites. Other 1m dish holding 118.75W, 121W and 129W.
> 
> I wouldnt discuss out of focal point position of those additional LNBFs, I know, I know - the signal level more then enough for my needs.


Mind posting a picture of your "handiwork"?


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

mailiang said:


> Cap: Since the multi switch is amplified, wouldn't that help compensate for the signal loss? Also, as I mentioned in my last post , D seems to suffer from longer intervals of rain fade then then E with similar signal readings. What would your explanation be for this, or in other words, what are the transmission differences if any, between Direct and Dish?
> 
> Ian


A few MultiSwitches are amplified, though most by default are not unless they specifically state otherwise. However, as you say, an amplified MultiSwitch would most likely compensate for these losses.

As for comparing duration of the fade, D* vs E* your own experiences and observations could be right, but how can we go about proving it? This will be random and impossible to compare because you're pointing at different satellites with different equipment. The age of the satellite may also play some part in transponder signal strengths.

Receiver (IRD) front-end sensitivity, as mentioned earlier in this thread, also plays a big part. Some receivers are far more sensitive (i.e., better) The LNB plays a role here too. You could very easily have a weak component there as well.

There are things you can do to help and other things which are a waste of money or yield diminished returns. For my money ($85) the most impressive signal improvement was the installation of the 1-meter (40") dish and the RG-11 coax cable. Looking at the signal strengths using a D* GAEBO (Hughes) receiver and a 5 X 8 un-amplified Multiswitch, I just don't think you could ask for better signals. Here's a photo taken this morning: (no amplifiers - I swear!)


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Everyone that is having rain fade issues after checking everything else needs to
look no further than the size of the reflector.If you have the room size does matter
and will help in reducing rain fade.The larger the dish the less rain fade.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

gct said:


> Don't laugh. Try this and you will be impressed. Promise.
> 
> Clean your dish reflective surface. The bird droppings do not focus a signal to the LNB's very well.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I truly mean no offense, but this is an
*URBAN LEGEND*
Not to mention it being a very bad idea.

Clean the dish, yes. But shine it up, no, never.
The object is to reflect as much signal as possible. Painted or unpainted, shiny or dull, makes no difference. This isn't a mirror inside a movie projector. Size (capture area - the bigger the better), regidity and stability of the mount and alignment are what help.

Shining it up with products like RainX, car wax, etc. will only serve to more severely sun-bake your LNB. First the plastic cover on the face of the LNB will become cracked, allowing moisture to start seeping in. Eventually the cover will break off or develop a hole in it.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

igator99 said:


> Wow captain that is awesome. If you don't mind I'm going to take a few pictures of my chimmeny and let you see if you think that setup is possible for me. I think I have bigger tree issues than you do.


Check out this site: 
http://www.exploratorium.edu/math_explorer/howHigh_makeInclino.html

This makes a GREAT home made inclinometer which you can use to sight-in your satellites yourself. Are the trees in the way or aren't they? This little gadget made from 10¢ worth of paper and Scotch tape will tell you. They even tell you how to use it.


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## mailiang (Jul 30, 2006)

Since all my equipment is new, and the signal levels are about the same as they were with Dish, my only solution would be for a bigger dish, which unfortunately is not an option, since I live in a town house and I am limited by room. Of course this all could be due to the frequent storms and weather conditions too. Thanks for the input Cap. Those signal numbers are pretty impressive. :righton: 

Ian


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

vikingguy said:


> Yep I have 3 seperate dishes for 101 110 and 119. Just looking for any edge for signal strength is all. My plans kind of got messed up by 110 not coming in where I hoped it would tree growth got me arg. Since I have to mount a new pole thought I might as well do a bigger dish as well. Since most of my HD feeds are there for now figured extra rain fade protetion could not hurt.


Before reinventing the wheel, and you're probably already aware of this, but worth mentioning in case you're not aware. The 110 requires a special LNB. A regular LNB like you'd use for 101 and 119 will not work for 110. It requires an LNB with a different oscillator frequency. It even has a specific name, called a *SAT-C* LNB


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;616095 said:


> Considering how far North you live, I'd say transponder levels in the 90's are very good.
> 
> 1) What are your receive levels on transponders 1 and 32? (just those 2)
> 
> ...


I finally had a non-recording moment to check signals, but of course forgot to write down details. Summary is this: one transponder (a higher number, wish I could remeber which!) was at 54 and a few were 0, all the rest were 90 or higher.
I'm at 37 degrees elevation, btw.

Can I conclude that if that's the case, and the dish is stable, then the dish is accurately aimed, and the view is clear?

I'm also assuming that since the signal immediatly comes back the instant the weather breaks, that this is true rain fade and not a leaking part, since I'd think that would take longer to dry and correct it self, no?
Plus, the installer did seem to have clue, and cautioned me not to try to loosen the connectors outside.

Rain fade was pretty bad recently...lost over ten minutes...the end of one of my wife's shows and the beginning of the next. Between this and the R15's problems, she is less than thrilled.

If a bigger dish would really help, I might go for it. The installer said he used the longer HD mast so I'd have more room if I needed it, but for asthetic and practical reasons, I wouldn't want the a full 1 meter round inthis location.

Thanks,
ApK


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Sounds like the stars are properly aligned....
Your D11 has a hotter (more sensitive) receiver, that explains still watching on the D11 and not on the R15.

Compared to the standard 18" (46 CM) dish the larger dish (76 CM) will give you a better (twice as good) fade margin and the 1-meter (40") dish will give you 4 times as much signal, quadrupling your fade margin.

The larger dishes (40" especially) are a little trickier to align right-on the max peak signal, but when properly tweaked, kind of like sighting-in a deer rifle on a 100-yd bullseye, but will be worth the investment.


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## mailiang (Jul 30, 2006)

I have a D multi dish and my signal levels run anywhere on 101 from 83 to 100 in clear weather. After I had it installed in July, we had a few thunder storms and I lost the signal anywhere from a few minutes to over a half hour. When the remnants of a tropical storm hit a couple of weeks ago I was getting 50 mi. per hr. wind gusts and heavy rain most of the day and I only lost my signal for a few moments. Today a major cluster of storms hit the coast of NJ for several hours, causing torrential down pours in my area. Some spots received as much as 5 inches in less then 30 minutes, yet my wife was watching tv with out any signal interruption all day. Since early August I have been practically rain fade free!:joy: Has the satellite fairy paid me a visit or am I just lucky?  


Ian


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

JINXED!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will soon be visited by the Rain Fade Fairy.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

mailiang said:


> Since early August I have been practically rain fade free!:joy: Has the satellite fairy paid me a visit or am I just lucky?
> Ian


I'd say lucky. The intensity and height of the story will vary. I've been in a localized downpour and still watching, only to have doppler radar indicate a line of heavy storms (red echoes) come through and totally wipe our reception out yet never receive more than a few drops of rain, even with the big 40" dish.

The only thing for sure is death and taxes. All else is variable.


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## jpurkey (May 15, 2003)

One thing I noticed with rain fade was that storms which were aligned SW to NE were most likely to knock out the signal. That made sense since our dish pointed SW and the signal would have to pass though more rain and clouds with SW/NE storms than it would if the storm was aligned say N to S. Luckily the SW/NE aligned storms usually moved from the NE to the SE so the period of outage was fairly brief.


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## aegrotatio (Mar 27, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;616227 said:


> *URBAN LEGEND #1*
> Use a small wrench to tighten them ¼ to ½ turn past finger-tight. Every connector, both outside and inside should always be 'wrench-tight'. If you can unscrew it with your fingers, then it wasn't "tight". I believe the actual tightening spec is something like 30 inch-pounds, which in my opinion might be overdoing it, especially on the back of your receiver.


According to distributors I buy from, and some of the instructions on equipment that I've used, you can only tighten coax connectors "finger-tight."
In fact equipment bought through Sadoun.com and some other dealers specifically state that your warranty is void if you use anything but your fingers to tighten coax connectors.

I nominate the "wrench-tight" factoid as another URBAN LEGEND.


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## mailiang (Jul 30, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;656186 said:


> I'd say lucky. The intensity and height of the story will vary. I've been in a localized downpour and still watching, only to have doppler radar indicate a line of heavy storms (red echoes) come through and totally wipe our reception out yet never receive more than a few drops of rain, even with the big 40" dish.
> 
> The only thing for sure is death and taxes. All else is variable.


I agree. Although I wasn't having any issues with rain fade, I was experiencing some very intermittent pixelation and freezing problems just for a few seconds. I had D do a service call, and my multi dish elevation level was a bit low. Since the tweak I have readings in the mid 90's on all transponders except for #18 which reads 100.

Ian


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

aegrotatio said:


> According to distributors I buy from, and some of the instructions on equipment that I've used, you can only tighten coax connectors "finger-tight."
> In fact equipment bought through Sadoun.com and some other dealers specifically state that your warranty is void if you use anything but your fingers to tighten coax connectors.
> 
> I nominate the "wrench-tight" factoid as another URBAN LEGEND.


That must be why major (commercial) CATV supply houses sell a 7/16" open-end torque wrench preset to 30 inch pounds.

Granted there are some places where you cannot take a connector to 30 lbs in, such as on the back of your IRD and/or TV. But inline connections to directional couplers, splitters, multiswitches, etc. are in fact spec'd to 30 lbs in. That's why the tool is made and that's what it's for.


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