# No ethernet - what is possible



## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

At my dad's house, he has 2 old SD dvrs TiVo units that are old and dying. I would like to upgrade him to 2 HD DVRs and have the installers hook him up to connected home so he can play a show regardless of where it was recorded. His TVs are HD already but he has no ethernet. Assuming he doesn't need VOD, can this work okay with connected home even with no Ethernet in the house?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

You don't need internet for MRV; it's done over coax. He'll need an upgraded dish & SWM-LNB or SWM8.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Or just go the unsupported route and use an ethernet switch to connect the DVRs using cat5e. SWM not needed in this case.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> At my dad's house, he has 2 old SD dvrs TiVo units that are old and dying. I would like to upgrade him to 2 HD DVRs and have the installers hook him up to connected home so he can play a show regardless of where it was recorded. His TVs are HD already but he has no ethernet. Assuming he doesn't need VOD, can this work okay with connected home even with no Ethernet in the house?


It's likely that an complete upgrade like this will be SWiM setup; in which case he will have MRV without having Ethernet.

The easiest thing to do is to call DirecTV and see what they can schedule.

Mike


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## Yog-Sothoth (Apr 8, 2006)

> Or just go the unsupported route and use an ethernet switch to connect the DVRs using cat5e.


...



> His TVs are HD already but he has no ethernet.


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## Half Decaf (Dec 5, 2010)

Man this talk of mixing ethernet with Deca has me thinking...I just had an MRV installed using (1) HR24 DVR along with a Deca internet bridge in the living room and (1) R24 receiver in the bedroom. Does anyone know of a way to use the Deca setup to network my entire home using my existing coax? Are those Deca bridges available somewhere, or can I buy Moca equipment to extend the network created by Deca?


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Could you? Certainly. Should you? really no.

The DECA implementation is highly specific to Direct TV's needs and has such has been built in a rather limited scale to support a demographic model using only their equipment.

There are subscribers that are in fact doing as you suggest and when DECA was announced I saw this as being a selling point but. D* is a Satellite service provider PERIOD. Adding other things and having WHDVR problems will lose supportability from Direct.

You can purchase the parts from the weaknees site and cobble together a working hybrid and it does work but. The DTV DECA architecture has limited scalability, "is optimized for their traffic patterns" and many of the subscriber problems revolve around issues with internet/DECA not playing stable together. "will you stop touching me"

I'm currently doing the opposite in that I'm 100% hard wired unsupported Ethernet but I am running one box on DECA and it took an amazing number of parts to do this (as opposed to just plugging in an Ethernet cable). So far it's been stable and transparent.

In my realm however it's completely up to me to diagnose WHDVR issues along with my network and the WHDVR has inflicted unusual carnage on my LAN from time to time.

It's just complex enough in it's native form that unless you are a mega geek and very network literate that it could be a bad thing to muck with.

I agree conceptually it could open up an entire new market offering for DTV but the education required for an adaquate support model and the myriads of connectible devices make it a support nightmare. And it's my personal belief that their current architecture would not scale suitably once you start adding all the connected home components one would add.

Don "safer to keep them isolated" Bolton



Half Decaf said:


> Man this talk of mixing ethernet with Deca has me thinking...I just had an MRV installed using (1) HR24 DVR along with a Deca internet bridge in the living room and (1) R24 receiver in the bedroom. Does anyone know of a way to use the Deca setup to network my entire home using my existing coax? Are those Deca bridges available somewhere, or can I buy Moca equipment to extend the network created by Deca?


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

To the point of the OP...the situation you are describing is exactly why D developed DECA. To provide WHDVR service to the consumer who has just coax in the house. With DECA their is no need for any Ethernet cabling or equipment.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Half Decaf said:


> Man this talk of mixing ethernet with Deca has me thinking...I just had an MRV installed using (1) HR24 DVR along with a Deca internet bridge in the living room and (1) R24 receiver in the bedroom. Does anyone know of a way to use the Deca setup to network my entire home using my existing coax? Are those Deca bridges available somewhere, or can I buy Moca equipment to extend the network created by Deca?


To answer this question... NO you cannot use Deca and Moca together with your whole home setup. The moca adapters will interfere with the satellite signal. Deca works the same as Moca but on different frequencies.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I took the OPs remark about his father not having ethernet as not having internet. So I suggested that they use ethernet to connect the DVRs. No need to have an internet connection whatsoever.


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## Half Decaf (Dec 5, 2010)

lugnutathome said:


> Could you? Certainly. Should you? really no.
> 
> The DECA implementation is highly specific to Direct TV's needs and has such has been built in a rather limited scale to support a demographic model using only their equipment.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Don. Well, its a pity it would be a wobbly solution. Like many, my home is not conducive to ethernet wiring, so I thought this would be the way to go. I definitely would be able to do Moca network since the home is coax wired everywhere, but it would require a bunch of adapters to implement, and I would also want it to link to the Deca network, which may be a problem. So, I am left with my existing wifi which is working OK or trying out a powerline AV setup.
Thanks again.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Half Decaf said:


> Thanks, Don. Well, its a pity it would be a wobbly solution. Like many, my home is not conducive to ethernet wiring, so I thought this would be the way to go. I definitely would be able to do Moca network since the home is coax wired everywhere, but it would require a bunch of adapters to implement, and I would also want it to link to the Deca network, which may be a problem. So, I am left with my existing wifi which is working OK or trying out a powerline AV setup.
> Thanks again.


Hey, you don't have to give up on it though ...

While what Don claims are the oft-repeated orthodox theories on the DECA network's limitations and it is indeed not officially supported by DirecTV, I'm not aware of any real empirical proof that DECA is any different than MoCA's transparency to all forms of ethernet traffic.

Therefore a number of subs here are, ala FiOS subscribers which regularly place everything on their coax networks, connecting BD players, PS3s, Wiis, Internet TV boxes, computers, ethernet enabled TVs, etc., through their DECA clouds without any reported issues during MRV streaming. I'm using a PC right now on my DECA network with no problems whenever I use MRV.

Just be advised should you go this route, that since it is not "officially" recommended or supported by DirecTV, should you ever wish to make a service call to them for some DECA networking problem you feel you can't fix yourself. You must return your setup to its original state of having only DirecTV receivers on the DECA network, or the technician will almost certainly walk away and not touch it.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

why are there 2 topics happening here?
to the OP get the whole home upgrade, costs a bit up front but takes care of everything including deca/mrv. its also supported so he won't have to "fix" anything.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> ...


When the OP said ethernet it sounded like he meant internet. The poster was talking about cheap cat-5 cable from each DVR to an ethernet switch that costs about $15. the cables are very cheap at monoprice. It would cost a lot less than having Directv do it for $250.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to think that!!!


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## Half Decaf (Dec 5, 2010)

Well, I barged in on this topic, presenting my situation to get deeper into the topic than was warranted. Sorry about that .

Anyway, Steve - As already mentioned in this thread a couple of times, your dad will be able to share and watch video from his DVR using the coax network that is in place if he goes with D*'s MRV setup. You mentioned that he may go with 2 DVR's - well, if he has Deca installed for MRV that isn't necessary - he doesn't need to lease 2 DVRs, he could go with one and share it - that is what I did. 

You asked in your post what is possible, well one quick addition I would recommend is IF he were to go with the Deca solution (MRV), you really ought to make sure that the D* installer include an ethernet bridge - I think it is a free addition with the install if you have a network in place. The installer may not add one if your dad doesn't have a network present - so, if you want to pursue this option, you might consider putting something in place at your DVR at least temporarily. In my situation what I did was install a wi-fi network at my place with a wi-fi bridge at my Deca DVR - my installer then connected to that wi-fi bridge with a deca ethernet bridge he provided...for free! For your dad's situation, as a quick solution, you might just want to get a couple of powerplug units for him. You can start with basic ones at first to see if your electric wiring is well suited to powerplug. 
So now, he'll have Deca connected to his computer. If the electric wiring is suitable for powerplug, then you might explore upgrading the powerplug to powerplug AV. Your dad can then watch captured video on a couple of computers in his home, too. Again, powerplug is a hit-or-miss solution, but it is possible. A powerplug AV kit (2 units) runs $100 - $150. This is relatively cheap , it is easy, and non-permanent if it doesn't work out for dad. You might want to consider that too...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve Rhodes said:


> At my dad's house, he has 2 old SD dvrs TiVo units that are old and dying.


Are there any other receivers in the house?


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## Yog-Sothoth (Apr 8, 2006)

> The poster was talking about cheap cat-5 cable from each DVR to an ethernet switch that costs about $15.


With only two devices, a switch isn't needed; a crossover cable can be used (or a regular one, if one or both devices are auto sensing).


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Its not the transparency that would concern me. A DECA "cloud" has a 16 tuner limit and one would assume a total "LAN" bandwidth to support an average number of devices all streaming traffic concurrently. 4? 5? After which it's likely beyond their design limits. No need to extend a captive device beyond a designed volume.

That is more where I am coming from in my considerations. To be real the average consumer won't likely push that envelope but how much do you subtract out by adding in non DTV devices? Again in a typical residence probably not enough to inflict pain and suffering but at some point the DECA "switching center" can be pushed beyond it's designed scalability.

That's more of where my "orthodox" thinking is coming from. Since I have 24 active network devices on my home LAN I wouldn't expect that to function on a "switch" designed for likely 4 concurrent streams I tend to look at it from a larger scale than most. Sorry.

As I eluded there are folks like you happily using it. Like I stated, I think it's a great marketing opportunity if DTV were to get behind it as a home LAN service but I suspect that would require some SWM redesign to add bandwidth not to mention a complete other tech and support division.

Don "but you are correct I've no empirical data on the matter:nono:" Bolton



HoTat2 said:


> Hey, you don't have to give up on it though ...
> 
> While what Don claims are the oft-repeated orthodox theories on the DECA network's limitations and it is indeed not officially supported by DirecTV, I'm not aware of any real empirical proof that DECA is any different than MoCA's transparency to all forms of ethernet traffic.
> 
> ...


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> With only two devices, a switch isn't needed; a crossover cable can be used (or a regular one, if one or both devices are auto sensing).


That will work as well.


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