# ok got a problem at work with digital changeover



## DrUnKeN_TiGeR (Dec 2, 2008)

ok i work at an assisted living facility as a nurse but i usually do the electronic stuff too. so heres my problem WAY before i started they made a cable system that consisted of 9 dtv boxes (all of which only get one channel (SUCKS)) and an arial antenna (needs changed over to digital) so they purchased 4 digital boxes. The only problem is the BOX they have as part of the "cable system" wont accept the digital box because it doesnt register as on channel 3 or 4. i thought about a rf modulator but also has to be on either channel 3 or 4. so.... i the only idea i have is to use the rca's but there are no rca inputs on the BOX (again not digital converter) so im th im thinking maybe a way to use the rca output on the digital converter and change it into coax i belive this would work since rca outputs are not channel specific 
i hope this makes sence i would like to figure this out any ideas are appriciated if you have questions please ask
THANKS
DRUNKEN_TIGER


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I would suggest going over to www.avsforum.com and find user antaltmike. He installs systems like yours (and more complicated) for a living and would best be able to give you guys a reasonable solution.


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## DrUnKeN_TiGeR (Dec 2, 2008)

thanks


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> ok i work at an assisted living facility as a nurse but i usually do the electronic stuff too. so heres my problem WAY before i started they made a cable system that consisted of 9 dtv boxes (all of which only get one channel (SUCKS)) and an arial antenna (needs changed over to digital) so they purchased 4 digital boxes. The only problem is the BOX they have as part of the "cable system" wont accept the digital box because it doesnt register as on channel 3 or 4. i thought about a rf modulator but also has to be on either channel 3 or 4. so.... i the only idea i have is to use the rca's but there are no rca inputs on the BOX (again not digital converter) so im th im thinking maybe a way to use the rca output on the digital converter and change it into coax i belive this would work since rca outputs are not channel specific
> i hope this makes sence i would like to figure this out any ideas are appriciated if you have questions please ask
> THANKS
> DRUNKEN_TIGER


 Just another one of the many problems and expense caused by the "shutdown".


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> ok i work at an assisted living facility as a nurse but i usually do the electronic stuff too. so heres my problem WAY before i started they made a cable system that consisted of 9 dtv boxes (all of which only get one channel (SUCKS)) and an arial antenna (needs changed over to digital) so they purchased 4 digital boxes. The only problem is the BOX they have as part of the "cable system" wont accept the digital box because it doesnt register as on channel 3 or 4. i thought about a rf modulator but also has to be on either channel 3 or 4. so.... i the only idea i have is to use the rca's but there are no rca inputs on the BOX (again not digital converter) so im th im thinking maybe a way to use the rca output on the digital converter and change it into coax i belive this would work since rca outputs are not channel specific
> i hope this makes sence i would like to figure this out any ideas are appriciated if you have questions please ask
> THANKS
> DRUNKEN_TIGER


You could try a channel selectable RF Modulator such as the Dayton FAM-3 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-318). Channel Master also makes a fantastic 3 channel modulator but costs 3 times as much as the Dayton and works no better. You will need 2 units or purchase a single channel Dayton FAM-1 but for the price, I would go for the FAM-3 as FAM-1's typically sell for around $50.

All you do here is select the UHF output channel you would like each input converted to (i.e Digital Box 1 on Channel 15, Digital Box 2 on Channel 21, etc.). Just remember to keep some separation between each channel and try and stay away from assigning a channel number which is currently in use by a Full-Power TV station.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

You don't need to change the antenna. Digital is the same wavelengths as analog was. The only reason you need to change it is if you are in a fringe area and need more surface area on your antenna.

The converter boxes are not made for cable systems. They are only intended to be end user devices that are attached next to the non-digital capable televisions. Get one for each TV as that is what they are made to do.

Why does everyone make this so complicated?


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## DrUnKeN_TiGeR (Dec 2, 2008)

jkane said:


> You don't need to change the antenna. Digital is the same wavelengths as analog was. The only reason you need to change it is if you are in a fringe area and need more surface area on your antenna.
> 
> The converter boxes are not made for cable systems. They are only intended to be end user devices that are attached next to the non-digital capable televisions. Get one for each TV as that is what they are made to do.
> 
> Why does everyone make this so complicated?


ok i dont guess i made myself clear i never mentioned changing the antenna we have a cable system each channel is a DIRECT TV BOX WITH ONE CHANNEL ON IT for example channel 2 on our cable is CNN... we will no longer be able to get local channels on our system without switching to digital so the digital converters would be somewhat similar to the Direct tv boxes if i do nothing then we wont have local channels... i need to find out how to make the locals digital AGAIN the converter boxes dont work i feel because they have to be on either channel 3 or 4


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## DrUnKeN_TiGeR (Dec 2, 2008)

fluffybear said:


> You could try a channel selectable RF Modulator such as the Dayton FAM-3 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-318). Channel Master also makes a fantastic 3 channel modulator but costs 3 times as much as the Dayton and works no better. You will need 2 units or purchase a single channel Dayton FAM-1 but for the price, I would go for the FAM-3 as FAM-1's typically sell for around $50.
> 
> All you do here is select the UHF output channel you would like each input converted to (i.e Digital Box 1 on Channel 15, Digital Box 2 on Channel 21, etc.). Just remember to keep some separation between each channel and try and stay away from assigning a channel number which is currently in use by a Full-Power TV station.


thanks for the suggestion but i dont think this will work because they already have a system like that with 13 channels its all already wired up and i am not going to nor will they let me change the setup other than minor things if this gets to complicated im gonna tell them to call someone else lol thanks though


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Definitely, there is need involvement of a professional.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> thanks for the suggestion but i dont think this will work because they already have a system like that with 13 channels its all already wired up and i am not going to nor will they let me change the setup other than minor things if this gets to complicated im gonna tell them to call someone else lol thanks though


I'll see if there is anything else I can come up with but I think this may be a little out of my league..

Good Luck!

Edit: After going back over your OP, let's see if I understand this.

1) You have Master Distribution system with only Coax Inputs?
2) You have an external antenna source (either OTA or basic cable)
3) You now have 4 digital receivers without Coax Outputs?
4) Are these digital receivers being left on a single channel?

Is your system using a configuration such as the following (example only)

The basic cable input/OTA input is providing channels 2 to 69 and each receiver is tuned to an enhanced channel (Digital receiver 1 is always tuned to HBO, Digital Receiver 2 is always tuned to Showtime, etc..)


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

If the distribution system works for UHF, here is an inexpensive UHF analog modulator.

http://www.summitsource.com/cabletr...multiroom-distribution-part-ctd1u-p-8026.html

This is better quality, VHF, and it costs more.

http://www.21best.com/21_best/electronic/Cable_TV/modulators/for_sale_.html


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

samhevener said:


> Just another one of the many problems and expense caused by the "shutdown".


Sam: The assisted living center is a commercial enterprise, not a private home. They have the resources to have the problem corrected if they care to do so. Where the problem gets sticky is in the rooms of the residents. Since the facility is not set up to provide the residents with analog feeds from digital channels, the residents will certainly suffer. It's not clear from the OP's posts as to whether they have satellite or cable, but it appears they have what amounts to a community antenna system. If so, they definitely need professional help. 
The same thing is true wherever people rely on community antenna systems rather than cable or satellite. The onus is on the community antenna system owner in most cases.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I would purchase as many digital converters as necessary to provide one for each OTA channel you want to recieve. Then purchase the necessary modulators to allow each individual channel be transmitted on a channel of your choosing through your existing distribution system.

For me, I'd get two of these (3 if spanish is important) ($70 each)

http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=7595

I'd then pick up between 6 and 9 digital converters at about $50.00 each.

ABC, CBS, and NBC would go on the first box
FOX, PBS, CW on the second box
MyTV, IND and Spanish on the third box.

Combine the output of the UHF modulators onto your system and you are done. (for about $750. I'd budget $1000 total for extra cables, combiners, amps and, of course, time)


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> thanks for the suggestion but i dont think this will work because they already have a system like that with 13 channels its all already wired up and i am not going to nor will they let me change the setup other than minor things if this gets to complicated im gonna tell them to call someone else lol thanks though


So you have 9 "cable" channels that you receive from satellite which are mixed with ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC channels that you get from the over-the-air antenna, is that correct?

If so, please identify where you are in West Virginia and post your complete channel lineup, so we can determine whether you are receiving full power signals or translators.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

The OP is describing a custom analog head-end system, using modulated OTA signals plus some DirecTV receivers. Likely they use integrated tuner/modulators for the OTA signals, and they're intended for analog OTA, and need to be replaced with a digital version.

We do this kind of work, but I'm a little far from West Virgina. As a few other folks have mentioned, this isn't something that's going to be a quick fix with some cheap consumer electronics. They need a professional who knows what he's doing and has access to the proper gear.










Here's a pic of a head-end, Dish-based in this case, that we put together for an office building. We've also done convelescent hospitals and apartment complexes.


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## DrUnKeN_TiGeR (Dec 2, 2008)

joblo said:


> So you have 9 "cable" channels that you receive from satellite which are mixed with ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC channels that you get from the over-the-air antenna, is that correct?
> 
> If so, please identify where you are in West Virginia and post your complete channel lineup, so we can determine whether you are receiving full power signals or translators.


DUDE u hit the nail on the head thats exactly what we have i guess we are going to have to buy new modulation boxes the maintence guy called yesterday and its gonna cost 1200/channel 1200x4=4800!!!!!!!!!! but i guess thats all we can do. we get the channels i hooked it up straight to the tv in the room that the system is in we get all the local digital channels so thats not a problem i dont know what else to do


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I re-read your first post again. It says that your system will accept signals only from Channel 3 or 4 and that the digital boxes you already have do not output to channel 3 or 4. If that is true, you can get a box that converts the RCA signals out to channel 3 or 4 at any Radio Shack or Best Buy/Circuit City.

This is assuming your first post is accurate and that your legacy system has channels/ports available t them.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> DUDE u hit the nail on the head thats exactly what we have i guess we are going to have to buy new modulation boxes the maintence guy called yesterday and its gonna cost 1200/channel 1200x4=4800!!!!!!!!!! but i guess thats all we can do. we get the channels i hooked it up straight to the tv in the room that the system is in we get all the local digital channels so thats not a problem i dont know what else to do


The price you pay for having a commercial head-end installation. I stand by my recommendation that you need to get a professional (sounds like you have already talked to him) and get management to fork over or give up on local channels. Throwing additional channels into a system like this is not to be done lightly.


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

DrUnKeN_TiGeR said:


> DUDE u hit the nail on the head thats exactly what we have i guess we are going to have to buy new modulation boxes the maintence guy called yesterday and its gonna cost 1200/channel 1200x4=4800!!!!!!!!!! but i guess thats all we can do. we get the channels i hooked it up straight to the tv in the room that the system is in we get all the local digital channels so thats not a problem i dont know what else to do


Well, I agree with scooper and the others that this is a job for a professional, and management should spend the bucks.

But I'm still curious where you are, because I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where in WV one could or would build an MATV system using a VHF/UHF broadband antenna such that you could easily pick up all the digitals just by tapping the line. In Charleston, for instance, an analog installation wouldn't have required UHF. And most other places would require cut-channel antennas aimed in different directions, so going digital wouldn't be as simple as swapping out boxes. Maybe Morgantown if you were getting Pittsburgh stations.

In any case, just make sure that whatever the professionals do for you is future-proof, in case one or more of your locals change channel assignment on Feb. 18 or later. Either feed the CECB outputs into professional grade modulators just like with the DIRECTV feeds, or make sure any integrated units are frequency-agile. In the Pittsburgh area, I don't think that's an issue, but in other places, it is.


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

I agree MikeW. What I am reading is that this is a facility with a simple system that has worked fine for some time. There are a couple of D* boxes connected to a distribution box, and there is an outdoor antenna connected to the box that feeds the analogs at whatever channel they are broadcast in.

Now comes digital and you need to convert the digital versions of each local channel back to analog so you can still use your trusty distribution box.

So if you don't want to do an expensive upgrade, just get a couple of $40 digital boxes with a channel 3 or 4 output from best buy or whatever big box store you like.

Conversely, if the issue is that channel 3 and 4 are already being used by your distribution box for a couple of d* channels, then you can use the digital converter boxes you already have, but you just need to get a couple of the uhf modulators that have been mentioned previously.

Either way, it sounds like there is a low cost alternative for your facility.

Of course, if gets to be too much trouble, you can just let the facility owners hire the job out. 



MikeW said:


> I re-read your first post again. It says that your system will accept signals only from Channel 3 or 4 and that the digital boxes you already have do not output to channel 3 or 4. If that is true, you can get a box that converts the RCA signals out to channel 3 or 4 at any Radio Shack or Best Buy/Circuit City.
> 
> This is assuming your first post is accurate and that your legacy system has channels/ports available t them.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

If SD locals are available via sat, wouldn't the simplest solution be to add additional DirecTv boxes to the mix for each of the locals?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Sure - but again - I would have the professionals who installed the original put in the additional channels as required.


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## BillRadio (Aug 5, 2004)

I may be missing the point, but if the local cable system offers a majority of the needed channels on their basic analog feed, you can replace the whole system for just the cost of the cable company's monthly fee. If nothing else, it may be a temporary solution.

Comcast here only offers locals, local sports and shopping channels on their analog tier (but they offer digital without boxes to ATSC TV's), so there's a chance it won't work ffor you.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

BillRadio said:


> I may be missing the point, but if the local cable system offers a majority of the needed channels on their basic analog feed, you can replace the whole system for just the cost of the cable company's monthly fee.


Things work a bit differently in a commercial environment, especially depending on the type of business. One of the main selling points of a head-end system is that the costs are substantially cheaper than cable over time, despite the up-front costs. That's going to be even more true when many of the channels are fed from OTA.


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