# Seeking advice: Is damage claim process with DirecTV worth the trouble?



## jimconnor (Jan 23, 2012)

Here is my situation. I switched from Dish to Direct in January. Service has been so-so, but most of the kinks have been worked out. Last week our dish took a direct lightning hit. Two TVs were killed completely, one is still working but lost the HDMI input that satellite connected to. Also lost the HDMI output on the HR34 receiver.

Upon inspection I found that DirecTV installer had come down from the dish and just connected to the existing Dish wiring. The ground wire was just snipped and the whole mess was wrapped in electrical tape and tucked under a downspout. 

I feel like the lightning hit was a result of the non-grounded install, which then in turn caused expensive damage to my personal property. I talked to customer service and they opened a damage claim, but I have to submit written professional estimates for the TV repairs. 

Here's where I could use advice - is this even worth the trouble? If Direct is most likely going to deny the claim anyway, I don't know if it is worth the effort to haul the TVs around and possibly have to pay for an estimate. I am fairly sure the repairs will be quite expensive compared to the costs of the sets. It's extremely likely I will just be replacing at least two of them versus repairing.

Has anyone been through a similar experience with DirecTV, and how did it work out? Thanks for any help you can provide.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

jimconnor said:


> Here is my situation. I switched from Dish to Direct in January. Service has been so-so, but most of the kinks have been worked out. Last week our dish took a direct lightning hit. Two TVs were killed completely, one is still working but lost the HDMI input that satellite connected to. Also lost the HDMI output on the HR34 receiver.
> 
> Upon inspection I found that DirecTV installer had come down from the dish and just connected to the existing Dish wiring. The ground wire was just snipped and the whole mess was wrapped in electrical tape and tucked under a downspout.
> 
> ...


sounds like another directv sloppy install.
your best bet is your homeowners insurance


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

jimconnor said:


> Here is my situation. I switched from Dish to Direct in January. Service has been so-so, but most of the kinks have been worked out. Last week our dish took a direct lightning hit. Two TVs were killed completely, one is still working but lost the HDMI input that satellite connected to. Also lost the HDMI output on the HR34 receiver.
> 
> Upon inspection I found that DirecTV installer had come down from the dish and just connected to the existing Dish wiring. The ground wire was just snipped and the whole mess was wrapped in electrical tape and tucked under a downspout.
> 
> ...


Have you talked to your Home Owners Insurance Company? Mine is State Farm and they have always replaced anything for me that took a lightening strike or power surge with no hassle. Seems to me there is a $5,000 limit per claim on it though if I remember correctly.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But if you file a claim through insurance, doesn't that potentially cause your rates to increase? I know I get a discount for not filing any claims. You have to weigh whether the cost of the deductible plus an increase in rates is worth filing a claim.


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## jimconnor (Jan 23, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> But if you file a claim through insurance, doesn't that potentially cause your rates to increase? I know I get a discount for not filing any claims. You have to weigh whether the cost of the deductible plus an increase in rates is worth filing a claim.


The deductible is my issue with the homeowners policy. I have a $1000 out of pocket even if they cover it. In all honestly, I can replace both dead TVs for that amount - that's why I hoped to get DirecTV to cover the loss.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

jimconnor said:


> The deductible is my issue with the homeowners policy. I have a $1000 out of pocket even if they cover it. In all honestly, I can replace both dead TVs for that amount - that's why I hoped to get DirecTV to cover the loss.


good luck


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

Our shop does electronic repair mostly for TVs and I would say you have a better shot at a claim then a lot of claims I have seen over the years. I wont delve into whether or not if there had been a good ground that the result would not have been the same because the complete lack of it is cause enough for them to take care of it.

Having said that in some cases lightning strikes can be easy repairs and should be cheaper than the cost of new sets. I would at least try to get the estimate fees paid for before getting them looked at.

Certainly the one that still works but no HDMI means that one needs a new "main" board. More than likely the others need this too as the hit came in over signal cables rather than power. Any modern TV power supply usually only has a standby 5 volts running and a trigger from the main board will turn on the other voltages to operate the set.

As far as the homeowners, most deductibles we see people have are $500 which would certainly be higher than all 3 repairs. I know Directv will pay this as I know we have done some in the past. In cases like this whether its movers, installers, signal providers or insurance we usually have the customer pay us and let them be the ones to collect the check. While it may not happen as fast as you might like I see no reason this will not be paid for.

Did you lose anything that wasnt a TV or Directv equipment? Do you see a mark on the dish where it was hit?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

How would failing to connect the ground wire cause a lightning strike? And even if it had been connected, it would not have helped. That's not the point of the ground wire.

That said, it should have been connected properly, and if that will get DIRECTV to cover your equipment, more power to you.


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## jimconnor (Jan 23, 2012)

bigglebowski: That's helpful. I see that you happen to be in Charlotte. What area is your shop in? I'm still trying to figure out the best place to take these sets for repair estimates. Just PM me if you don't want to post all the info here.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

DirecTv collects the information and forwards it to the installation company.

They in turn get with you to investigate and determine liability. Then make an offer for restitution. They would also make sure your install is up to spec and provide a number for any future issues. Customers are usually right, within reason.


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## jimconnor (Jan 23, 2012)

hilmar2k said:


> How would failing to connect the ground wire cause a lightning strike? And even if it had been connected, it would not have helped. That's not the point of the ground wire.


I'm no electrician, but from what I have read there is build up of static electricity in the dish over time - the grounding prevents this. Without it, your dish becomes a magnet for lightning. (Maybe completely wrong, but like I said, my training came from Google, so it's not worth much.  )


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> But if you file a claim through insurance, doesn't that potentially cause your rates to increase? I know I get a discount for not filing any claims. You have to weigh whether the cost of the deductible plus an increase in rates is worth filing a claim.


That's what Insurance is for!!!!

Legit Claims do not carry a threat of increase. Call every month and they will drop you before they raise the rates and you next insurance policy will reflect your past usage history in it's Price increase.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

hilmar2k said:


> How would failing to connect the ground wire cause a lightning strike? And even if it had been connected, it would not have helped. That's not the point of the ground wire.
> 
> That said, it should have been connected properly, and if that will get DIRECTV to cover your equipment, more power to you.


I'm not an electrician, but I don't believe grounding prevents a lightining strike. I thought the point of the ground wire was to re-direct the lightining to where the ground wire is attached keeping it away, in this case, from going down the cables to the equipment.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

n3vino said:


> I'm not an electrician, but I don't believe grounding prevents a lightining strike. I thought the point of the ground wire was to re-direct the lightining to where the ground wire is attached keeping it away, in this case, from going down the cables to the equipment.


Quite right. 
Question is, is there any proof that a properly grounded dish does not do the job?


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> But if you file a claim through insurance, doesn't that potentially cause your rates to increase? I know I get a discount for not filing any claims. You have to weigh whether the cost of the deductible plus an increase in rates is worth filing a claim.


Depends on how many and how often. I make a couple of claims a year and have never had an increase.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

jimconnor said:


> The deductible is my issue with the homeowners policy. I have a $1000 out of pocket even if they cover it. In all honestly, I can replace both dead TVs for that amount - that's why I hoped to get DirecTV to cover the loss.


LOL, with that kind of deductible on your Homeowners you really don't save any money. At that rate you might as well self insure.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

n3vino said:


> I'm not an electrician, but I don't believe grounding prevents a lightining strike. I thought the point of the ground wire was to re-direct the lightining to where the ground wire is attached keeping it away, in this case, from going down the cables to the equipment.


That little ground wire will not redirect the lightning. The ground wire is to bleed off the static build-up from the dish. Does not protect you from a lightning strike.


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## RBTO (Apr 11, 2009)

Don't know how to answer your original question about whether it's worth filing. I would say it's worth a try.

The ground wire on your dish doesn't drain any charge off the dish - the pole is usually partially grounded itself, and it's unlikely the dish would accumulate any charge. A _solid _ground (to a local ground rod), however, does play a protection role in that it should divert at least _part_ of a lightning strike. It also assures your dish is not "hot" should there be a failure in electrical wiring somewhere that might electrify your dish and present a personnel hazard. Having the dish grounded doesn't appreciably change the likelihood of having or not having a strike.

If the dish is ungrounded, a good portion of a strike will follow your coax to the nearest ground (likely your receiver) and spread to other ground paths that are connected along the way.

In any case, if the dish were properly grounded, it's very likely less damage would have resulted in the strike. That factor alone, is supportive of a filing, but how Directv will treat your case, I can't address. I would be sure to mention the botched install (specifically the ungrounded dish) in the filling.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RBTO said:


> Don't know how to answer your original question about whether it's worth filing. I would say it's worth a try.
> 
> The ground wire on your dish doesn't drain any charge off the dish - *the pole is usually partially grounded itself*, and it's unlikely the dish would accumulate any charge. A _solid _ground (to a local ground rod), however, does play a protection role in that it should divert at least _part_ of a lightning strike. It also assures your dish is not "hot" should there be a failure in electrical wiring somewhere that might electrify your dish and present a personnel hazard. Having the dish grounded doesn't appreciably change the likelihood of having or not having a strike.
> 
> ...


I would say that the lion's share of dishes are not pole mounted.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

hilmar2k said:


> That little ground wire will not redirect the lightning. The ground wire is to bleed off the static build-up from the dish. Does not protect you from a lightning strike.


What guage wire would one need, then?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> What guage wire would one need, then?


One the diameter of a tennis ball might do the trick.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

hilmar2k said:


> I would say that the lion's share of dishes are not pole mounted.


 But most have some kind of metal bracket making contact with the dish. The ground wire could be attached to that.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

n3vino said:


> But most have some kind of metal bracket making contact with the dish. The ground wire could be attached to that.


Well yeah, that's how one would ground a dish.


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## RBTO (Apr 11, 2009)

n3vino said:


> But most have some kind of metal bracket making contact with the dish. The ground wire could be attached to that.


Most dishes have a green ground wire screw for the purpose. A good size for the ground wire is #10 or larger.

Although you'd think a lightning strike would vaporize a small wire, the current is there for a short interval of time and ground rod - to - ground resistance is usually higher than the wire resistance, so a seemingly small wire like a #10 can divert a significant current without damage to the wire itself. Of course, bigger is better. I defer to some of the dish installers out there for their recommendations.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Grounding wires will do nothing to stop lightning look at the damage done to houses from lightning. If you had protection plan through DIRECTV then you're covered through that otherwise it's your insurance, or out of pocket.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Do a search on lightning rods and see what size wire is used on a small structure, what I'm seeing is somewhere between 7/16" and 9/16" braided cable. 

The small ground wire will discharge static but won't do a thing to protect your home from a direct hit.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)




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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Here is a good article on grounding requirements.

http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/Grounding-1.asp


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> Grounding wires will do nothing to stop lightning look at the damage done to houses from lightning. If you had protection plan through DIRECTV then you're covered through that otherwise it's your insurance, or out of pocket.


Bingo! That is the right answer.

The purpose of the kind of grounding done on dishes is for electrical safety. That's why it is called a "safety ground" and not an "RF ground". Lightning damage is an RF problem, not so much a DC problem. The extent to which one would have to go to help protect your equipment from lightning (called lightning mitigation), is way, way, way beyond most people's willingness to pay. It is neither trivial nor inexpensive.

The requirement for lightning mitigation is a "single point ground". This involves, at a minimum:

Low impedance (fat wire) common connections of all devices to earth. To produce that low impedance connection (coupling to the earth efficiently/effectively) requires a large surface area in contact with the earth, and large/thick/wide connections to the earthing points, if there is any distance between a device and the earthing point.

At the earthing points themselves, one often finds radial wire fields consisting of hundreds of feet of shallowly buried wires many feet long, that more effectively couple the "ground rod" to the earth, for the so much desired "low impedance" connection to "ground".

What 99.999% of satellilte/tv antenna installs do in terms of grounding is nothing more than installing "safety grounds", and they do little or nothing to mitigate lightning strikes, or the more commonly damaging "surges" caused by the EMP (electromagnetic pulse) that accompanies a nearby strike.

All this chatter about static build up, #10 wire, etc. is downright dangerous. Relying on any of the common approaches/wisdom/myths when it comes to lightning mitigation is just silly. It would be funny if it weren't so dangerous.

In summary:

1. Do a proper safety ground for all equipment.

2. Use a surge protector or UPS at the least. Understand, surge protectors rely on a "proper" ground to work, and most don't see anything even remotely resembling a proper ground. It's better to have one than not, but to assume any certain protection from them is foolhardy.

N.B.

If you really want to understand how lightning mitigation works, read the white papers published by Polyphaser:

http://www.protectiongroup.com/Utility/Knowledge-Base

These people are the pros. I've been using their products and approach for over 30 years...and doing it less than perfectly still leaves one vulnerable. We suffered a $13,000 loss four years ago. The entry point for the "surge" (not a direct hit), was the DSL/Phone line entrance to the home. Every device connected to the network was fried. Most devices that were connected to anything connected to the network were fried.

*The DSL/Phone line entrance point was not "properly" grounded. It did have a safety ground, but it was not a low impedance RF ground, bonded to the single point ground that I spent so much time putting together, so it didn't slow down the spike from the nearby strike at all.*

This is precisely the case that most consumer sat box owners are in, so BEWARE. Have insurance if you live in a thunderstorm area. Never assume your equipment is protected. Safety grounds protect you. RF grounds protect both you and your equipment. Chances are, you do not have an effective RF ground for all your goodies. A good RF ground is also a perfect Safety ground, so you don't need "both". RF is both, just having a safety ground (NEC) does not protect the equipment.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

HobbyTalk said:


> Here is a good article on grounding requirements.
> 
> http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/Grounding-1.asp


That article is addressing safety (NEC) grounds. It has nothing in it regarding effective RF grounding, and that is where equipment damage comes in.

A proper NEC safety ground is necessary, to be sure, but it is far from sufficient, when it comes to lightning mitigation (see my other post if interested).


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Scott Kocourek said:


> Do a search on lightning rods and see what size wire is used on a small structure, what I'm seeing is somewhere between 7/16" and 9/16" braided cable.
> 
> The small ground wire will discharge static but won't do a thing to protect your home from a direct hit.


...or a nearby strike and the accompanying surge caused by the EMP. This will produce a differential in your "so called grounded equipment" of thousands of volts.

Bye bye equipment.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Good info.! 
My family's house in Illinois was built in the 1950's in a open field, and was the tallest structure around for blocks. It had what seemed to me to be a robust lightning rod system, and I also recall unplugging TV sets during some storms. 

Also there was a 50' antenna mast, which I assume was grounded itself.
Nothing was lost to lightning, but then again, perhaps no strikes hit the rods or houses.... and the TV was the only electonic device at the time.


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## Old_School (Nov 29, 2011)

When my dish was installed in late December the installer didn't even bother to install a ground wire. I called Directv and asked why and they sent out a "Lead Installer" that came and took 20 minutes explaining to me that a dish more than *5FT* away from the electric meter was not needed to be grounded and spent another 10 minutes trying to sell me the new $19.99 a month protection plan

After the guy makes a trip to his truck, he comes back in a tells me that he can run a ground wire for me if i want him to I just had him do his thing and leave.

I think when we move in the fall i will be taking everything with me and doing a self install.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Old_School said:


> When my dish was installed in late December the installer didn't even bother to install a ground wire. I called Directv and asked why and they sent out a "Lead Installer" that came and took 20 minutes explaining to me that a dish more than *5FT* away from the electric meter was not needed to be grounded and spent another 10 minutes trying to sell me the new $19.99 a month protection plan
> 
> After the guy makes a trip to his truck, he comes back in a tells me that he can run a ground wire for me if i want him to I just had him do his thing and leave.
> 
> I think when we move in the fall i will be taking everything with me and doing a self install.


The installer had no idea what he was doing. A safety ground is required by code. It doesn't matter that the safety ground will not protect one whit against lightning induced problems, it is needed to prevent someone from being killed due an electrical fault.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

jimconnor said:


> I feel like the lightning hit was a result of the non-grounded install, which then in turn caused expensive damage to my personal property. I talked to customer service and they opened a damage claim, but I have to submit written professional estimates for the TV repairs.
> 
> .


A grounded system, would not have helped you if it was a direct hit!

The little ground wire they use can't support a hundred million volts.

Your best bet is what others have said, call your home owners insurance.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

hasan said:


> The installer had no idea what he was doing. A safety ground is required by code. It doesn't matter that the safety ground will not protect one whit against lightning induced problems, it is needed to prevent someone from being killed due an electrical fault.


 Exactly

Everyone thinks its for lightning. They don't even use 9/16 braided wire for lighning rods here, its more like 1 inch braided.:eek2:


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

damondlt said:


> The little ground wire they use can't support a hundred million volts.


Sure it can. The size of the wire has little to do with volts, is has everything to due with amperage. You do know it is not uncommon for that little static shock you get in your house is 20K to 25K volts?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

HobbyTalk said:


> Sure it can. The size of the wire has little to do with volts, is has everything to due with amperage. You do know it is not uncommon for that little static shock you get in your house is 20K to 25K volts?


While technically correct, the point he was making is valid: the differential impedances to ground in a non-single point grounded system (read as: nearly all consumer grounds), result in gigantic voltage differences between "grounded" pieces of equipment, and it is the voltage differential that causes components to break down. (and allow current to flow)

Without a potential difference (voltage), there is no current flow. (I)

Nearby strikes cause induced currents. The currents flowing through different parts of the poorly grounded systems develop large voltage differentials. Bye bye equipment.

...and put that 25K volt difference across the input connector of your satellite receiver and you can kiss the front end of the satellite receiver goodbye, no matter how small the current. Most solid state devices just don't do a good job of tolerating high voltage.

So, while it is correct that the voltage doesn't melt the wire, it is the voltage between the wire and real ground that allows current to flow, and that number tends to be very large (hundreds, if not thousands of amperes), and the small wire becomes a fuse, but not before other delicate components are destroyed.


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

Back to the topic at hand.

1. Yes, file the claim. It's not likely that your dish received a direct lightning strike, but probably did transfer an electrical surge from a nearby strike through your cables due to improper grounding.

2. Homeowner's Insurance may cover it, but it makes no sense to ask them to do so before filing the claim with the provider. Some insurance companies will take the matter up with the provider on your behalf. Talk to your agent. Tell them what happened, and ask them how they suggest you proceed.

3. Is this your installer?


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

macfan601 said:


> LOL, with that kind of deductible on your Homeowners you really don't save any money. At that rate you might as well self insure.


 In a sense, those with high deductibles, are self insuring the small loses. The savings comes in the insurance premium. Chances are high that you could go for years without a loss. The savings in premiums more than pays for the smaller losses.

The homeowners insurance is really to cover the big losses that could break you in case of a major disaster which, BTW, is required by the mortgage companies.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

n3vino said:


> In a sense, those with high deductibles, are self insuring the small loses. The savings comes in the insurance premium. Chances are high that you could go for years without a loss. The savings in premiums more than pays for the smaller losses.
> 
> The homeowners insurance is really to cover the big losses that could break you in case of a major disaster which, BTW, *is required by the mortgage companies.*


Only up to the amount of the mortgage, however. If you have a $250,000 house with a $100,000 mortgage, and only get HOI enough to cover the lender's requirement, you'd be SOL if your house burned down.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

HobbyTalk said:


> Sure it can. The size of the wire has little to do with volts, is has everything to due with amperage. You do know it is not uncommon for that little static shock you get in your house is 20K to 25K volts?


Level 4 ESD test (highest voltage needed for consumer electronics) is 15kV air / 8 kV contact. Hardly any current to kill you, but plenty of power to kill the MOSFETs in your electronics.

Lightning mitigation is complicated. For instance, the cable that carries the current is typically 7/16" in diameter and is 32 or so copper wires braided together. I highly doubt the installer would have connected the dish to ground using that kind of cable.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

HobbyTalk said:


> Sure it can. The size of the wire has little to do with volts, is has everything to due with amperage. You do know it is not uncommon for that little static shock you get in your house is 20K to 25K volts?


Your whole house is a grounded system, so your going to tell me that if you home electric meter got struck , you home would be fine?

No way, everything you had plugged in would be fried, every lightbulb would explode, and more then likly your house would be on fire.

Thats a fully grounded system that requires an electrical inspection.

The tiny piece of 10 gauge wire (if thats what they even use) will never stop lightning directly or even a nearby hit as much as some of you want to believe. 
Unplug your equipment.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Marlin Guy said:


> Back to the topic at hand.
> 
> 1. Yes, file the claim. It's not likely that your dish received a direct lightning strike, but probably did transfer an electrical surge from a nearby strike through your cables due to improper grounding.


That's totally wrong. If your neighbor gets hit, your ground is temporarily no longer ground but is several thousand volts instead. Since there is positive and negative lightning, the current can flow from ground into the hot and neutral terminals in your outlets (i.e. current is flowing the wrong way). So now your box is exposed to high reverse voltage. Ironically, this type of damage doesn't happen if you're not grounded.

There is a completely separate set of equipment needed for surge protection, and it assumes that the surge can be coming from ground.

Being grounded significantly increases the risk of damage due to a lightning strike (excluding an official lightning mediation system). But there is a far greater chance of poor wiring or equipment malfunctions causing injury and deaths. So everything gets grounded.


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## wallfishman (Dec 31, 2008)

In my experience, the fact that its not grounded properly, Directv will pay for the damage. They will push it off to the installation company and they can turn it into their insurance. I was a tech for comcast for a long time and my brother is an istallation supervisor that deals with damage everyday. They have bought hundreds of tvs and computers for things not being grounded. We all know it probably would not have stopped it but the fact is you dont know, you just know it wasnt grounded to NEC code and they are on the hook. Take pictures of everything now before they come out. 
Thats Comcast, as far as Directv I know a company i contracted before had to pay for something like this. I think you have a good chance of getting it paid for. Just follow the damage claim process out. when they come out let them knows the damage followed through their ungrounded cable. And mention NEC Code requires grounding.


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## prospect60 (Aug 26, 2006)

WestDC said:


> That's what Insurance is for!!!!
> 
> Legit Claims do not carry a threat of increase. Call every month and they will drop you before they raise the rates and you next insurance policy will reflect your past usage history in it's Price increase.


Well technically that's what DirecTV and/or the Installers insurance is for. If they violated state code in not grounding the dish properly they they become the liable party.

In real life any claim that gets paid or even made will increase the insurance owners possibility of an increase.

Like others have mentioned a properly grounded dish may not necessarily have prevented a lightning strike, but it certainly would have decreased the chances of getting hit to begin.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

prospect60 said:


> Like others have mentioned a properly grounded dish may not necessarily have prevented a lightning strike, but it certainly* would have decreased *the chances of getting hit to begin.


 Properly grounded would have been with a 9/16 copper braided wire.

So no I don't think it would have made one bit of difference.

Do some reseach people, grounding is not to protect against lightning strikes at all. 
Its to protect your equipment from static electricity.

What do you think happends to a residential powerline or transformer when its hit by lightning? Nothing? Yea don't bet your money on that!:lol:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

HobbyTalk said:


> Sure it can. The size of the wire has little to do with volts, is has everything to due with amperage. You do know it is not uncommon for that little static shock you get in your house is 20K to 25K volts?


 A lightning strike produces in excess of 150,000 amps.

you think a rated 20-30 amp wire will save your systems?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

n3vino said:


> Is there an electrical engineer on this forum? Seems that we are getting all kinds of opinions on lightining strikes and grounding, but no one has said they are qualified to state those opinions as fact.
> 
> I would file a claim through D*. It won't hurt.


 It doesn't take an Electrical Engineer. It takes some small research and knowing how to read.

Fact is a 20-30 Amp wire will not support 150,000 amps.!


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## tigerwillow1 (Jan 26, 2009)

> Fact is a 20-30 Amp wire will not support 150,000 amps.!


I doubt that anybody is suggesting that a ground wire will protect against a direct hit. The issue is whether or not bleeding the static charge from the dish reduces the risk of attracting a direct strike. I've found opinions arguing both ways.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

damondlt said:


> It doesn't take an Electrical Engineer. It takes some small research and knowing how to read.
> 
> Fact is a 20-30 Amp wire will not support 150,000 amps.!


I have an M.S. in EE. You are correct. 

Actually, that wire should instantly vaporize or at least melt if it did attempt to carry most of that energy. And then where would the rest of the energy of that strike go?

You can use #26 AWG wire as long as it is also 1.5" wide. But most building codes don't recognize that, so you have to use 1/2" braided copper wire, give or take 1/16".


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

tigerwillow1 said:


> I doubt that anybody is suggesting that a ground wire will protect against a direct hit. The issue is whether or not bleeding the static charge from the dish reduces the risk of attracting a direct strike. I've found opinions arguing both ways.


Grounding the dish slightly INCREASES the chance of a direct strike. The presence of a relatively microscopic static charge has absolutely nothing to do with attracting lightning.

Besides, if the dish is installed correctly minus the ground wire, there is probably no static charge on it. The dish is still grounded because it's in contact with the LNA, and the LNA is grounded via the shielding in the cables. That shielding is then hopefully tied to house ground within the receiver.

But hey, if the OP can get someone to pay for it, more power to him (sorry about the pun).


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

bobcamp1 said:


> Grounding the dish slightly INCREASES the chance of a direct strike. The presence of a relatively microscopic static charge has absolutely nothing to do with attracting lightning.
> 
> Besides, if the dish is installed correctly minus the ground wire, there is probably no static charge on it. The dish is still grounded because it's in contact with the LNA, and the LNA is grounded via the shielding in the cables. That shielding is then hopefully tied to house ground within the receiver.
> 
> But hey, if the OP can get someone to pay for it, more power to him (sorry about the pun).


Uh oh, its like you are being blasphemous by what you speak of. Also btw, I DO NOT disagree with what you say, im just pointing out that most people just dont fully "get" what grounding is about.

Also LNA, wow had not heard that in a while. I seem to remember the C-Band ones were huge. Then again the cable was too, as well as the separate block downconverters the "newer" equipment needed. Cant remember what the cable type was though, remember them using N connectors.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

bigglebowski said:


> Also LNA, wow had not heard that in a while. I seem to remember the C-Band ones were huge. Then again the cable was too, as well as the separate block downconverters the "newer" equipment needed. Cant remember what the cable type was though, remember them using N connectors.


Early BUDs had separate DCs. The signal coming out of the LNA was 950Mhz to 1450Mhz so RG-11 was used to connect the LNA to the DC.


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

"HobbyTalk" said:


> Early BUDs had separate DCs. The signal coming out of the LNA was 950Mhz to 1450Mhz so RG-11 was used to connect the LNA to the DC.


You made me look it up. The coax was rg-213 WAY thicker than rg-11 because it was not block converting to 950-1450Mhz hence the need for thicker cable.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Grounding the dish slightly INCREASES the chance of a direct strike. The presence of a relatively microscopic static charge has absolutely nothing to do with attracting lightning.
> 
> Besides, if the dish is installed correctly minus the ground wire, there is probably no static charge on it. The dish is still grounded because it's in contact with the LNA, and the LNA is grounded via the shielding in the cables. That shielding is then hopefully tied to house ground within the receiver.
> 
> But hey, if the OP can get someone to pay for it, more power to him (sorry about the pun).


 Thank you. Glad you could explain it better.

:lol:

I think grounding is important for many factors with equipment.
But Lightning, nope it doesn't take Direct or indirect strikes to fry equipment. Best defence unplug your electric and cables and stop being lazy and expecting someone else to pay for it all the time.

If your dish is hit you might want to call the fire department!


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

bigglebowski said:


> Also LNA, wow had not heard that in a while. I seem to remember the C-Band ones were huge.


Especially if you got a "Super Ice" from Satellite Shouty.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

bigglebowski said:


> Also LNA, wow had not heard that in a while. I seem to remember the C-Band ones were huge. Then again the cable was too, as well as the separate block downconverters the "newer" equipment needed. Cant remember what the cable type was though, remember them using N connectors.


That's because I meant to type LNB. not LNA.  That's just my work life creeping into this forum.

My point was that there's metal to metal contact so that the dish and its LNB are grounded even without the ground wire, just not in an optimal way. The ground wire running from the dish to ground is just a dedicated connection to ground, and is the optimal way to ground a dish. I can tell you that it's not needed for proper functioning of the equipment, nor does it have any measurable impact on lightning or surge protection.

You ground the dish because you don't want an installer standing on the roof or on a 20' ladder getting an unexpected zap when he touches the dish. Surprises in those situations are bad.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Jon J said:


> Especially if you got a "Super Ice" from Satellite Shouty.


You must mean Gary Cubeta!


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

studechip said:


> You must mean Gary Cubeta!


I don't remember his name just that he was hawking equipment 24/7.


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## jimconnor (Jan 23, 2012)

Just to close the loop on this thread, I wanted to let anyone interested know that DirecTV (actually their installation sub-contractor) is paying my claim in full. They are paying the repair costs for two televisions and replacement cost for one that could not be repaired. They also replaced the HR34 that got fried in the incident (my Protection Plan would have covered that either way, I think).

It was determined that not grounding the dish (which doesn't follow electrical code in my state) was enough to obligate them to pay without any real questions.

If you ever need to file a claim, just be sure to have lots of pictures and details about dates/events. If you provide them with all the information up front, they really don't ask too many questions.

Thanks to those that provided _helpful _feedback on the original question posted.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm glad it worked out for you. I doubt the lack of a ground was the cause of the problem, but since they should have installed it correctly in the first place, it really was the right thing for them to do.


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