# ViP612 - L6.03 Software Experiences/Bugs Discussion



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

*ViP612 - L6.03 Software Experiences/Bugs Discussion*

It appears that L6.03 for the ViP612 has begun spooling to some customers. Please use this thread to post your experiences and bugs found with this release.

Be sure when you report an issue or an experience be sure to include details and specify what receiver you saw it on. We definitely have seen some issues be receiver model specific so including the model is always good practice.

After receiving an update, if your box does not appear to be operating properly first step should be, find a ten minute period where nothing is recording, and then pull out the AC plug for 20 seconds and then plug it back in.

_*Reported Fixes and Enhancements:*_

 Enables SlingGuide
 Improved OTA performance being reported.
_*Reported Possible New Issues: *_

 
_*Other Reported Highs and Lows:*_



_Moderator Note: Feel free to report getting it or not, but don't be suprised if we sweep through and delete those type of posts with an update at the top indicating the state of the roll out. _


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

My 612 is showing L6.03 today. Didn't check until until I read this post. Hope it does more than enable SlingGuide, but I can't do a hard reboot until tomorrow so I won't know if it's all there and running.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm on 6.03 as well. Nothing else to report as of yet.


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## siper66 (Jun 27, 2008)

This will be a dumb question, but how you check the software version you have on the 612?
Thanks!


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

siper66 said:


> This will be a dumb question, but how you check the software version you have on the 612?
> Thanks!


Menu, 6, 1, 3

Not a dumb question...


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## Billgolfer20 (Aug 20, 2008)

No problems seen yet. Have only used one of my two 612's. Will try the other later today.


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## siper66 (Jun 27, 2008)

pmsmith66 said:


> Menu, 6, 1, 3
> 
> Not a dumb question...


Got It! Set up the slingguide on my 612. No problems! Thank you!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

siper66 said:


> This will be a dumb question, but how you check the software version you have on the 612?
> Thanks!


If you just want to quickly see info about your system, you can just press menu, menu. Despite the fact that I've had Dish for years, I just learned that last year.


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## et121212 (Feb 9, 2009)

Got 6.03.

This may be premature (as I do not have control of the TV attached to vip612 until the weekend), but my OTA reception problems seem to have been fixed. Previously I had problems connecting to 2 OTA channels (while my TV tuner, vip211k tuner and my HDTV card* had no problem whatsoever) and a quick check today showed no such problem. Again I only had a few minutes to check so this may not be conclusive. Cross my fingers, though. 

A couple other people reported the same symptoms on 6.02, I hope they have a chance to check it out more thoroughly and report the findings.

*The 5-year old Dvico card is an antique by today's standard and it still works better than the 612 OTA tuner, amazing. I just cannot stop compalining about this -- unless 6.03 fixed the problem on the vip612.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

As a Data Point et121212... I am not having any issues with my OTA tuner on my 612 in SoCal. Picking up over a dozen channels. Definitely install dependent on the issue.


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## et121212 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ron Barry said:


> As a Data Point et121212... I am not having any issues with my OTA tuner on my 612 in SoCal. Picking up over a dozen channels. Definitely install dependent on the issue.


Point well taken. I am sure you are right. The stations that I have (had?) troubles are the ones that began digital broadcasting in recent past, so it may be a bug on their end. I receive 11 channels in my local market (Atlanta). The towers are only 9-11 miles away.

I hope people post whether or not they have any OTA problems with vip612 (most people, I suspect, do not use it often enough to figure out there is a problem).

I, being a very early OTA HD adopter, am very into OTA reception (not to mention that I can record 2 shows and watch another one at the same time, which is very important for me now, unfortunately). Pathetic, I know, since I never watched/recorded much TV before the damn HDTV/DVR came along.

I am a man of science (although I do not work in the field anymore), so I do not complain about anything if I cannot prove it (a trait that often put me in disadvantage in the business world but I'll stick with it) .


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well definitely Dish receivers have had a history of being more multi-path sensitive and picky about what is in the PSIP stream so what works with other OTA devices might not work with Dish DVRs. The tough thing is it is hard to figure where the issues is under these circumstances. 

Please report back after a few days if the issue is truly resolved.


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## poyzin (Jan 19, 2009)

I have a 211, 622 and 612. All have the identical UHF antennnas. I always had trouble with the 612 OTA reception with frequent variance on signal strength. Often it would drop below ~70 and lose the station. Funny thing is that the 612 has the clearest path to the local broadcast towers yet the 211, pointing through several walls, had the highest OTA signals - usually in the high nineties. L6.03 dramatically improved my OTA reception on all channels - all are in the high 80s or low 90s and don't vary much. I am now confident in recording the uncompressed OTA channel rather than the highly compressed Dish channel for the locals with no dropouts.
As far as the Slinguide goes - set it up without a problem except be aware that the broadband setup button is "8" and not "9" like the instructions say. Now, if dish would just get their Slinguide website to work with a Windows Smartphone I would be thrilled.


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## et121212 (Feb 9, 2009)

I first reported improvement a few days ago aftrer a short test. This weekend I try to do a comprehensive test and the results are: I beleive there are some improvements but I still have problems.

With L6.02: near perfect on 7 channels, minior problem one 1 channel (8.1), frequent problems on 1 channel (30.1) and almost constant yellow screen on 1 channel (34.1).

With L6.03: minor problem on 3 channels (8.1, 34.1 and 36.1) and near perfect on 8 channels. 

Note I have one channel (36.1) showing some minor glitches in L6.03 (but was fine on L6.02). The other station (30.1) that used to have a lot of problems is now OK..... Go figure.

Anyway, what I can say is L6.03 seems to show some improvements but is not perfect yet. Frankly, there were moments I thought I was imagine things...

One thing for certain, though. Vip612 OTA tuner is defintily not up to par compared with most other options (even after the 6.03 update). I wonder if this is a firmware/software problem or hardware problem. Anyone has knowledge of the chipset vip612 uses>

I do not have conclusive results, Would love to hear other people's experience.

poyzin reported above that his signal levels increase significantly with L6.03. That is not truw with my case. (I have decent levels on most of my stations as I am only 9-12 miles away and I use CM4821 whcih is generally considered pretty good).


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## poyzin (Jan 19, 2009)

et121212 said:


> I first reported improvement a few days ago aftrer a short test. This weekend I try to do a comprehensive test and the results are: I beleive there are some improvements but I still have problems.
> 
> With L6.02: near perfect on 7 channels, minior problem one 1 channel (8.1), frequent problems on 1 channel (30.1) and almost constant yellow screen on 1 channel (34.1).
> 
> ...


I'm afraid I'm going to have to retract my statement regarding improvement on the OTA reception. It seems to be all over the place with no patterns that I can discern. Stations with a strong reception yesterday are almost unviewable today. And, it's still doing the thing where a satellite equivalent is "losing" its reception if the OTA loses it's reception. This is remedied by hitting the guide button but I have to say that my VIP-211 has a MUCH better OTA receiver. The OTA reception on my 612 reminds me a lot of my old 811. I hated that thing!!
-poyzin


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## Billgolfer20 (Aug 20, 2008)

1. OTA is not improved. I get good OTA through my SONY HDTV built-in OTA receiver. I have a good "test" config.; I have the antenna feed split into both my SONY and into the 612. I can watch the video portion on my HDTV coming from the SONY receiver. At the same time, I can listen to the audio portion coming through the 612 and into my Onkyo Sound sysytem. So I know when the 612 is loosing signal because the sound drops out, but I still get the video picture. This happens frequently but more so on the locals that are broadcasting in the VHF range.

2. The "Freeze" problem seem to be pretty much solved. I used to be able to get the 612 playback to "freeze" (both Video and Audio) by pushing Pause and then Rewind. I could do this within the first five to ten minutes of turning the system on. Now has "frozen" once or twice but very infrequently, and not what I would call "repeatable". I cannot deliberately make it happen now.

3. I have random, short Audio dropouts when recording HD off the DISH HD Channels. I seem to lose 1/2 to 2 seconds of Audio. This is occurring at random. I have noticed this while recording the HD Channel 205 (FOX News) and the HDNetMovie Channel. Annoying because it is long enough to miss the key words in a spoken sentence.

Overall, I feel there has been some improvement but not enough to make me happy with the 612s that I have.

Hopefully, the OTA HD problem will "go away" when DISH starts to transmit OTA in HD for the Rochester, NY market. 

I will definitely be looking for a better HD Receiver in the next 4 - 6 months.

PS - Why doesn't DISH post the changes made when it releases a software upgrade? Most good software providers do this.


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## tri_s (Apr 2, 2009)

My 612 was working ok (for the most part but not as well as my 722) with 6.02 but now after getting the 6.03 I have lost the ability to receive 2 of the OTA channels (12.1 and 12.2) that were just fine before... 
I've tried the soft and hard resets and confirmed the ant / cable is good, as the TV's tuner works just the same as it always has with these channels. Kind of makes the DVR worthless for these channels...

I wonder how long before they try again.


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## Billgolfer20 (Aug 20, 2008)

I recorded the Masters both Saturday and Sunday. Both times, when I wanted to watch the recording, the system "froze" for about 60 seconds when I tried to start playing the recording. 

No other problem observed.

Note: The recordings were made from OTA broadcasts.


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## garne2t (Mar 25, 2009)

My 612 is also having these problems and more:

1. I often get lockups for about 30 - 60 seconds when I sit to watch TV after I hit pause or rewind the first time. Problem is intermittent and seems to happen primarily shortly after I start watching TV.

2. OTA tuner in 612 is a less reliable than the one in my TV. Reception is worse on my DVR than when I use the TV's tuner. Same cabling as I switch to antenna coax between the two. I found using a splitter decreased the signal to both so I don't use a splitter and only connect one device at a time.

3. I frequently lose audio/video for a second or so. Again, not reproducible. Happens on recorded show or watching delayed TV after pause. HD/SD recording doesn't make a difference. Strange thing is sometimes when I skip back 10 seconds, the recording plays properly the next time. Other times, the same skip happens.

4. I also have problems with pause and slow motion. Usually when I pause a recording and then want to watch (a sports play) in slow motion, the program skips and slow motion will start at a different point in the show. It can be forward or backward.

5. Skip back will too frequently not skip back 10 seconds. It sometimes skips back minutes.

Watching live TV doesn't tend to have these problems. I wonder if my disk has bad sectors. Is there a way to reformat the disk? Note I've tried hard reboot by unplugging. Are others experiencing these problems?


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## jetfan (May 30, 2009)

My biggest problem with the 612 has been the popping/clicking sounds that show up out of nowhere. Soft reboot solves the problem, but it's getting annoying and I may need Dish to send out a new DVR.


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## Rogernet (Aug 2, 2009)

Please see my new thread posted yesterday, 8-2-09, "New Vip612 Problem with HDCP and HDMI". This has to be an L603 bug which was dowloaded by DISH within the past 3 weeks.....Rogernet


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Rogernet, L6.03 has been out in the wild for a long time. What makes you think it was downloaded 3 weeks earlier?


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## Rogernet (Aug 2, 2009)

Ron.....To answer your question....as I mentioned in my new post string update today.....I had absolutely no problems with my 612, HDMI, the L603 and PPV movies with my current hookup to my SONY Bravia until 3 weeks ago. I checked and saw the movie Eagle Eye on 7/14....and DVR's it....no problem. Then on 7/29, tried to watch the PPV movie, Knowing, then I got the HDMI/HDCP error message 890. Over this past week, I spoke to the DISH Hardware installers and confirmed that it could not be anything but firmware, based on all the checks and double checks they made once my new 612 was installed and new HDMI cables were swapped...Can you think of some other reason for this problem other than a new downloaded L603 bug which DISH did overnight 3 weeks back? I also got confirmation that I am not the only one with this problem...It is now showing up around the country.... Thanks


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well first off.. Seriously doubt that another version of L6.03 was downloaded in your DVR. Common software practice with software companies including Dish is to always bump the version when doing the update. In the past people have felt from time to time that a silent update occurred but though possible very unlikely. There is no reason not to up the version and there is a lot of downside not doing it. 

The more likely scenario is that HDMI/HDCP validation was enabled on the "Knowing" stream resulting in validation occurring and validation failing between the 612 and your TV. Know why validation is failing is another issue, but in my opinion the most likely cause was that validation possible was enable for this Show rather than a secret update that caused the Validation to fail. 

One thing you might want to check is see if your TV can be updated firmware wise and make sure you have the latest. If you have the latest and your TV does HDCP it would be worth reporting to here and Dish of this issue. What TV do you own... Someone else might have the same brand and might be able to report their experiences.


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## Rogernet (Aug 2, 2009)

Ron,

It's highly unlikely that SONY has anything to do with this problem, as Ret44K2 in Vermont just posted on this problem (see below). My SONY is brand new, model number, KDL52W4100and as I said they do not make any HDTVs which allow HDCP to be turned on or off. It's always on. However, maybe their HDCP spec or release is different from the one that DISH just implemented....I already called the SONY Help Desk on this point. Apparetly per Ret442K, DISH did activate an HDCP spec on 7/29 all their PPV and HDPPV channels....I am not aware of any way to upgrade a reciever for HDCP or anything else without a firmware upgrade...As a software engineer for 30 years, my guess is that DISH frequently upgrades bug fixes to the current L603 firmware and any other releases in 612s or other recievers during the 3:00 a.m. downloads of the daily programming schedules. They just don't let DISH customers know about it, to avoid embarrasing discussions on their firmware quality and testing procedures. 

It's up to DISH to test their HDCP spec with all major HDTV manufacturers, not us. They use all of us customers as their final test bed and wait until we complain, until they finally fix problems without the need for any major new release. Then, magically, the problem(s) go away on the current release, as their hardware techs know... I think I heard that L603 was originally out around March of this year....I'm sure many bugs have been fixed in stealth mode in this way since then...Also, just for fun, I tried a brand new GE HDMI cable yesterday......same result....just wish DISH would be more open with us and not try to hide behind novice "help" desk support. DISH is the only tech company I use that doesn't even use a customer ticket number system to track status/progress for their customers....thanks again for your thoughts.

Ret44K2 in Vermont:
"I have the same DVR and the same model TV only 46" with exactly the same problem - Dish has informed me that on 7/29 they activated HDCP and that it should not bother with new equipment and HDMI cables.
Hav emade a couple of calls to Dish without success but am still trying - I am NOT going back to component cables. Will advise when have more info - just know your not alone"


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I have been doing software for major companies(Fortune 500) for about as long as you and am still doing it. We most have worked at different company because no company I have ever worked for did stealth mode updates and based on my experience here I doubt Dish works in this mode. Why do I think this? 

1) The roll out their code in batches so that if issues come up the roll out can be stopped and the issue fixed. 
2) The have a number system and obviously use it. The numbering system tracks the software. Doing Stealth mode update undermines a version system and any engineering team that has such a system would be very any stealth mode update. It serves no purpose. 
3) Remember Echostar is a hardware company that does software with a tight tie to a content delivery company. It does not suprise me they don't have a ticketing system. I would for a major Real Estate delivery company in the software side of things. We don't have a ticketing system and our defect reporting system is far from perfect as we are a Data providing company that writes software apps. (I see similarities between my company and Dish).
4) The nightly update is used to trigger uploading the EPG and software updates get triggered by putting the receiver in standby mode(Given you are targeted for one). I am not aware of any software updates that are only tied to the nightly update and there has been no reports of someone seeing an update. 
5) Diagnostics has a field for last updated version. Check that to see if it matches your current one. If my memory serves me right.. That should show the previous update.

Like I said.. The most likely scenario that i see is that it was enabled via the stream. I believe that can happen as I recall it has happened before. My guess is the functionality was already in the receiver and was enabled remotely. No firmware update. Of course this is just my opinion, but personally I doubt they would slip a version of software for the sole purpose of enabling HDCP. I really don't see a reason to do it specially when you have a process already in place. 

As for it not being a Sony issue, well you are most likely right, however, we are talking about a handshaking process and there is two sides of the conversation so if it was me I would be looking at both ends of the line as I troubleshooted the issues. There have been issues reported here form time to time indicating it is a Dish issue because people were not seeing the issue with other devices (One I recall in particular was an OTA issues). The board was hot with people having this issue and claiming it was Dishes DVRs at fault. This one also had people theorizing a silent software update. Well as time went on another device reported odd behavior (It was a Samsung). Well after a few more days it became evident the issue was that the OTA stream was changed and Dish and the Samsung were more critical of some data in the stream than other receivers and that was causing these two devices to reject the channel. I am not saying this is the case, but in my opinion whenever two devices are communicating and something changes (HDCP enabled) I would look at both sides for a solution. 

Also in terms of Testing against major manufacturers, I am not aware of any DVD manufacturer or DVR manufacturer that tests against all Major brands and models. I would expect one heck of a large matrix so my guess would be DVR companies would have a small subset of TVs and test against that. I would definitely suggest reporting the make and model and hopefully we will see a fix in the next version or so to address the issue. 

Is anyone running into this issue on channels that are not PPV?


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## Rogernet (Aug 2, 2009)

Ron,

Thanks again for your comments and views. If you can point me to an online list of all DISH firmware upgrades or patches for L603 or published list of known outstanding problems for this release, I would appreciate it...The closest I got was a second level tech (Jerry) on the phone....on 7/29 However, all he did was to go over my vip612 reciever values 1-9 which were all 0 except 4 which was a +16 and 7 which was a -2. You can get these off the Sys Info page Detail screen. Based on these numbers he authorized a new vip612 be sent to me, suspecting a bad hard drive....The new vip612 is better, fewer dropouts and drive noise, but did not solve the HDCP problem. So, like you, I suspect an HDCP spec incompatibility between SONY and DISH causing the problem. Current HDCP spec is at Rev 2.0, but it looks like Rev 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 is still out there. You can read about them and get PDF downloads at www.digital-cp.com. It would be interesting to know what both DISH and SONY are currently supporting.

It's fruitless to debate the quality of help desks and the need or merits of trouble ticket systems. However, all the aerospace companies I have worked for over the years and most professional hardware and software vendors I use (COMCAST is a good example) always will give you a ticket or incident number if you ask to more easily look up the history of each problem each time the customer calls the help desk and to ensure each problem is closed with customer concurrence. If DISH can afford it, I think they should use one.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Totally agree on trouble ticketing and as I am sure you know trouble ticketing and defect tracking in a lot of cases are separate though related and sometimes tied together from my experience. With my current employer they are separate and not tied together which I find totally annoying.

As to a list, I know this is not what you are looking for but you can find a list of current software releases here.

You can find an official list of current and previous versions here. 
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/612.shtml

Here is an unofficial one. 
http://www.dishuser.org/612sw.php

I believe the question you are asking is does Dish provide transparency into its defect tracking system and does it include detailed release notes. The answer to both of these questions is "No" as far as I know and based on what I have seen from other vendors in this space I am not aware of any that provide this level of transparency.

It would be nice, but it is not the case.

Also.. Yes it would be nice to know what spec the L612 DVRs implement in regards to HDCP. I have a L612 and a Sony HD 4x3 Receiver. Where are you seeing this issue. I would be interested to see if I am seeing it with my Sony.


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## des627 (Aug 12, 2009)

I have a 612 with a Vizio 42" model vo420e. The work around I have found to view (Downloaded through DishOnline HD Movies - not to be confused with Dish on Demand HD Movies) HD movies downloaded is a strange one.
*** By the way I had to go out and exchange my HDTV for one that was HDCP compliant. I now warn everyone not to buy HDTVs without HDCP and why.***

Once you download the movie or show (this is only for HD content), you can go to the View Downloaded Movies. Select your movie and start. My problem is that even with HDCP I get no video or audio. I can pause and do other functions as though it is playing but nothing is there.

So now for the work around. I have Component cables connected to my tv. I plug them into the 612, and unplug the HDMI cable. Then I restart the 612. 

Now when I start the HD video I can see and hear it through Component cables. I simply pause. Switch back to HDMI and unplug my Component cables, return to HDMI input channel and can now watch the video through HDMI cables. I can even restart the receiver and it will play. I just have to do this each time I download a new video on DishOnline. SD videos are fine, they don't have any problems.

Of course I am going to relay this information to Dish and hope that they can figure out why the switching of cables allows the video to play. 

I think a good question is how do WE THE PEOPLE kill HDCP!???! I mean really, it is another copyright protection scheme that has already been broken and hacked. So why turn it on? Dishonest people are going to continue to do what they do, and us honest folk have to live with these technological nightmares. And for those poor folk out there that have HDTVs without HDCP... I feel even more sorry for them... Can we say "class action suit" HDCP has been around for years and should have been in every single HDTV since the beginning. That is of course another forum I am sure.

Thanks,
David


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## garne2t (Mar 25, 2009)

I am on my FOURTH Dish DVR 612 boxes from Dish and every one is a piece of junk! They keep sending me refurbished boxes as warranty replacements but nothing is fixed and the problems are the same. They all have the following problems:

1. I often get lockups for about 30 - 60 seconds when I sit to watch TV after I hit pause or rewind the first time. Problem is intermittent and seems to happen primarily shortly after I start watching TV.

2. I frequently lose audio/video for a second or more. Again, not reproducible. Happens on recorded show or watching delayed TV after pause. HD/SD recording doesn't make a difference. Strange thing is sometimes when I skip back 10 seconds, the recording plays properly the next time. Other times, the same skip happens.

3. I also have problems with pause and slow motion. At times when I pause a recording and then want to watch (a sports play) in slow motion, the program skips and slow motion will start at a point minutes away in the show.

4. Skip back will too frequently not skip back 10 seconds. It sometimes skips back minutes.

What can I do? I've tried resetting boxes many times. Tried component video cables instead of HDMI. Nothing helps. Dish customer service is terrible. Please help!


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