# I think I'm done with Directv



## sectime (Oct 21, 2007)

Just a ***** thread move on if you don't like it :sure: I have been a customer since 98. Never have I had the hassles of the last 3 months. Freezes, black recordings, missed recordings. Now When trying to watch a purchased HD movie, about 2 minutes of movie then the screen freezes and I get the message "searching for authorized content". I have had a 20-100, 20-700, and now a 21-700 in the last 2 months. Every time CS says they are doing me a favor by not extending my contract. They have all been refurbs. I just got off the phone again, I was on hold for 25 minutes only to have the CS rep tell me that he can't do anything because the system is updating. What a third rate/world company this has become. It was pretty funny listening to him whine how he has been dumped on all evening for system screwups. Something about a PPV fight and a NASCAR race.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Searching for authorized content happens either when you pre-purchased the movie and recorded it but didnt watch it live.
Theres no way to fix that, sorry.

In regards to the issues you've been experiencing, it sounds like they've done everything they can and its still not resolving your problems. I would ask to be setup for a call to Case Management and/or talk to the Retentions department. Case Management are the people who take individual cases of a certain person thats having a continued issue, and get it resolved.
Its one of DirecTVs "new" departments (its been around for approx 5 months?)


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## bixfisher (Jul 10, 2007)

I wonder how many people actually carry out these threats to leave D*? I have a buddy that has DISH and he is pretty fed up with problems they have had also. And around here we never use the "C" word so that is not an option.

wbf


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Receiving 3 bad refurbs in a row is not that unusual. Case Management should be able to obtain a brand new receiver for you through the Logistics Department. Personally, I just don't have the time to deal with their refurb mess. I'd buy a new one at Costco instead. Even if I had received a bad refurb as an HD upgrade receiver, I'd get off the CSR bandwagon at the point I decided they had sent me a bad one. There comes a time where hours and hours on the phone costs more than $170. With the refurb quality being what it is, I think it's a bad business practice to send new HD customers refurb receivers. This is an area long in need of attention of top management.


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## sectime (Oct 21, 2007)

CJTE said:


> Searching for authorized content happens either when you pre-purchased the movie and recorded it but didnt watch it live.
> Theres no way to fix that, sorry.
> 
> In regards to the issues you've been experiencing, it sounds like they've done everything they can and its still not resolving your problems. I would ask to be setup for a call to Case Management and/or talk to the Retentions department. Case Management are the people who take individual cases of a certain person thats having a continued issue, and get it resolved.
> Its one of DirecTVs "new" departments (its been around for approx 5 months?)


Are you serious?? No way to fix something as basic as time shifting recording... its only the main reason recorders were invented. So why does DTV offer the option to purchase and record?? Thanks for tip on Case Management Dept, I will try that.


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## sectime (Oct 21, 2007)

bixfisher said:


> I wonder how many people actually carry out these threats to leave D*? I have a buddy that has DISH and he is pretty fed up with problems they have had also. And around here we never use the "C" word so that is not an option.
> 
> wbf


Actually Comcast works pretty well here,and the superfast internet is a bonus. When I add DTV plus Qwest the price difference isn't that much.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

K4SMX:

I agree with you. It's a bad situation. To a certain degree, getting the entire system to work is a bit like a science fair project sometimes. I have five 100 foot cable runs, a Zinwell multiplexer and a 5 LNB dish 

I have had very good luck with receiver hardware. However, the time and energy it takes to get a proper install/upgrade is silly. I always schedule for the morning and allow for a full day.

My friends have cable because you can basically plug it in and it works (how well it works is another question). They are intimidated by the complexity of the hardware. Can you imagine explaining OTA duplexing or the high band "dongle" to your mom? If your mom is an engineer, I apologize in advance . 

I think there is a lot of customer dissatisfaction with the HR2x. D* needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a DVR new product.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> K4SMX:
> 
> I agree with you. It's a bad situation. To a certain degree, getting the entire system to work is a bit like a science fair project sometimes. I have five 100 foot cable runs, a Zinwell multiplexer and a 5 LNB dish
> 
> ...


Most folks get installers to help out with putting the equipment in .. Same can be said for Comcast, BTW. As for customer service, one of the worst experiences that I have ever had was with Comcast and I have made a personal choice to NEVER go back to Comacast.

The HR2x works great for me and for many others as is evidenced here on the forums. Yes, there are some issues that people have, but DIRECTV is actively working to correct issues. I don't think the same can be said about Comcast.


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## TheGreatLogan (May 25, 2008)

Searching for Authorized Content

Can appear on R15/R16 or HR20/HR21 receivers. 
Causes:

Recording a channel the customer doesn't subscribe to. 
Customer would have seen OSD 721 if watching live, but OSD "Searching for Authorized Content" is displayed upon playback. 
Advise customer to make sure they subscribe to the programming they are trying to record. 

Missing purchase information for a PPV. 
This is a broadcast problem that should be escalated.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Yes, there are some issues that people have, but DIRECTV is actively working to correct issues.


I've been actively working to lose weight for 25 years and I've been similarly successful.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Most folks get installers to help out with putting the equipment in .. Same can be said for Comcast, BTW. As for customer service, one of the worst experiences that I have ever had was with Comcast and I have made a personal choice to NEVER go back to Comacast.
> 
> The HR2x works great for me and for many others as is evidenced here on the forums. Yes, there are some issues that people have, but DIRECTV is actively working to correct issues. I don't think the same can be said about Comcast.


I use installers too. That is why it sometimes takes all day for a 2 hour project. LOL

I am not a fan of the evil cable empire. I am a long-time D* customer, and plan to stay. But I think we should acknowledge/report problems when we see them.

I live in a small apartment building in SF. When I "upgraded" to the 5 LNB dish, the installer walked onto the roof of the building next door (they all touch) and spliced into the neighbors dish!

When I called him on it, he claimed it was no big deal. I suggested he go next door, ring the bell and ask the neighbor if that his was assessment as well. He then tried to install an old sidecar dish instead of a slimline. In the end, the "morning" install was finished sometime around 5 PM.

I have a very cool 87 Maxda RX7 convertible that I am also actively working on to "correct known issues." When I need to count on getting somewhere, I just drive the Ford Focus.

IMHO, the HR21 is not yet ready for prime time. No DLB, useless slo-mo, and a mediocre scheduling interface. I know of no plans to address these issues. If you know when they might be fixed, please share that information.

At some point (a couple of years?) the report has to be different than they are actively working on the problems. A better report would be that they know there are problems, and they are going with a new hardware/software platform soon or licensing an existing platform known to work.

(Even mighty Microsoft has completed abandoned a couple of major software projects after years of development. It happens.)


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> .....I think there is a lot of customer dissatisfaction with the HR2x. D* needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a DVR new product.


I've been very pleased with my HR's and have had practically no problems with any of them. I have enough of them to provide at least a fair statistical sample. I do run fans on the HR20-700's and UPS's on all of them. None of them are refurb's. They're usually all rebooted once every week or so. The "DLB work around" is a simple solution to the SLB problem for the few times I need it. DirecTV satellite signals have been 100% reliable except during brief, infrequent torrential downpours.

All you have to do is spend some time reading the AVSForum.com threads on cable HD DVR's to know that they are way behind the HR's. We don't have FIOS, but I understand their HD DVR's are none too spiffy either, at least at the moment. DishNetwork has their own, separate set of problems.

Yes, there is customer dissatisfaction with the HR's and DirecTV's CSR's, installers, refurb's, and certain business practices. I don't cut them any slack when there's something that needs improvement and there's something they can do about it. However, I don't think they need to "go back to the drawing board" on the HR's. The drawing board gets worked on every week, and sometimes the drawing board gets a little screwed up for awhile, yet overall it's a much better product than it used to be.

The cable company suppliers would have to come up with significantly better DVR hardware for me to consider them as an alternative, and even then I would have to discount all my previous bad experiences with them, especially the lengthy outages.

Satellite TV is not for everybody. It's more technically complex at the customer installation level, with more things to go wrong than cable. So securing and maintaining a reliable installation is more challenging than cable. It's a personal decision, and I don't fault others for what they choose as their content provider.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

K4SMX:

I don't disagree with your assessment of the various problems within the evil cable empire. I have been with D* nearly ten years now. Very few serious problems until the HR21 was delivered.

However, I think the HR21 is weak, and I can get an HD TIVO to hang on the Comcast cable. It's the customer's choice to use the Comcast box, a TIVO box, or another third party box. I am a big believer in choice. Choice is good. Always.

D* has put themselves at a competitive disadvantage, for the first time, by not offering the same option. I am a big NFL fan, or I would probably go over to the dark side. I don't think the HR21 is on the same level with the E* offerings of the HD TIVO Cable box, solely based upon what I have read. I know I greatly prefer the TIVO HR10-250 to the HR21. If I am going to be stuck with the HR21 for the NFL, I will feel the need to keep complaining until they get it up to snuff and add DLB!

Personally, I don't like a lot of the design decisions made in the HR21, which cause me to be less impressed by the things it clearly does do better than the HR10-250.


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## JimAtTheRez (May 9, 2008)

Well, I'm not ready to leave DTV, but I also can no longer state that I will never go back to cable. For the past 5 years, I have been a very loyal customer, and have been treated well. Lately, the customer service has gone down hill. Their lack of concern for long time customers who spend $140 plus each month (yes, I know I could spend less) seems pretty evident. Also, the fact that I was all but assured that I would have locals in HD over a year ago, no dual live buffers, and the fact that my emails (I have never been venomous in tone either in email or when talking with a CSR...not my style) are returned with some words resembling pablum. OK, sorry. I'm thru. I do love my DTV HD.....it's great.


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## diat150 (Nov 7, 2007)

I found that the vip622 was far more reliable, user friendly, and just overall a much better designed piece of equipment that met my needs. as a matter of fact, it probably wont be long before I switch back due to my discontent with the junky hr20-700.


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## vid53 (Jan 8, 2006)

Hey

We pay top dollars to be their guinny pigs.

Go Figure!


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> ...
> Satellite TV is not for everybody. It's more technically complex at the customer installation level, with more things to go wrong than cable. So securing and maintaining a reliable installation is more challenging than cable. It's a personal decision, and I don't fault others for what they choose as their content provider.


I ordered my D* SD system over the internet 7 years ago, installed it myself, including dish, and have had no problems at all. Now that D* is doing the installs with their HR2x DVRs, now there are folks like the OP who have lots of issues.

For whatever reason, the HR2x seems pretty sensitive to the quality of the install. And with the range of skills on installers varying from great to "Frick and Frack", there are some stories like the OP's coming out...FWIW


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> I've been very pleased with my HR's and have had practically no problems with any of them. <snip> They're usually all rebooted once every week or so.


Let me get this straight. You're happy with your HR's even though you reboot them once a week? That doesn't sound like something I would be happy with.

In contrast, I've been running two Tivo Series 3s with Comcast, and I haven't rebooted them for 18 months (except to upgrade the software two times). That's the kind of reliability that DirecTV needs with the HR20.

I would love to come back to DirecTV, but they need to fix their DVRs before I'll consider it. Bring back Tivo!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

> Let me get this straight. You're happy with your HR's even though you reboot them once a week? That doesn't sound like something I would be happy with.


running ce's, have to reboot during update.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Yup, I should've been more clear about that. Those are voluntary reboots that occur as part of d/l'ing new CE software. I reboot all the Windows-based computers here fairly often as well, so they can put away all the toys left on the floor. I don't regard doing occasional menu-based reboots on HR's as some kind of onerous task. There is some anecdotal evidence that it clears out problems before they get out of hand. 

I'm glad to hear the HD cable Tivo's are stable. However, as I understand it, they don't work with switched video being implemented by TWC, and Comcast's solution to their bandwidth problem, at least for now, has been to increase the number of digital channels in the same cable channel bandwidth, thereby reducing the PQ in the markets where this has been done. There's been plenty of discussion of the latter over at AVSForum. 

A new DirecTV Tivo offering would be good for those who don't care about SWM, MRV, Media Share, Media Share PC, and whatever else might be in the pipeline. Possibly it could at least be SWM-enabled. From DirecTV's point-of-view, there would be a lot of things to consider there. From a subscriber's point-of-view, I'm sure it would be well-received.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

sectime said:


> Just a ***** thread move on if you don't like it :sure: I have been a customer since 98. Never have I had the hassles of the last 3 months. Freezes, black recordings, missed recordings. Now When trying to watch a purchased HD movie, about 2 minutes of movie then the screen freezes and I get the message "searching for authorized content". I have had a 20-100, 20-700, and now a 21-700 in the last 2 months. Every time CS says they are doing me a favor by not extending my contract. They have all been refurbs. I just got off the phone again, I was on hold for 25 minutes only to have the CS rep tell me that he can't do anything because the system is updating. What a third rate/world company this has become. It was pretty funny listening to him whine how he has been dumped on all evening for system screwups. Something about a PPV fight and a NASCAR race.


Directv customer service has gone downhill. They need to start disclosing about putting a contract or programming committment on your account. They did this on my dad's account when he got a new outside dish for HD and a receiver and on my grandparents as well and never said one thing about it. They need to tell you and give you the option to just pay for new equipment if you don't want to be locked in a contract.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RCY said:


> For whatever reason, the HR2x seems pretty sensitive to the quality of the install. And with the range of skills on installers varying from great to "Frick and Frack", there are some stories like the OP's coming out...FWIW


DIRECTV is continuing to make improvements in this area. As all of the receivers are starting to have the same look and feel and new installer "programs" are coming into service, things will improve. A good company always looks for ways to make things better and DIRECTV is doing that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Link said:


> Directv customer service has gone downhill. They need to start disclosing about putting a contract or programming committment on your account. They did this on my dad's account when he got a new outside dish for HD and a receiver and on my grandparents as well and never said one thing about it. They need to tell you and give you the option to just pay for new equipment if you don't want to be locked in a contract.


Personally, I've been very happy with DIRECTV's customer service. Apparently other folks agree with me as they've earned the top spot for the eighth year in a row.

Press Release


> For eight straight years, DIRECTV, the nation's leading satellite television service, has scored higher for customer satisfaction than all major cable TV companies in the American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI).


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Personally, I've been very happy with DIRECTV's customer service. Apparently other folks agree with me as they've earned the top spot for the eighth year in a row.
> 
> Press Release


Those surveyed also said they'll miss W in January.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Personally, I've been very happy with DIRECTV's customer service. Apparently other folks agree with me as they've earned the top spot for the eighth year in a row.
> 
> Press Release


So being the best rated company in the worst or second worst rated industry surveyed is good? Maybe a more objective link would be to the ratings themselves.

I'm not dissing D* service but it would seem the entire electronics and consumer goods industry needs an upgrade.

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=180&Itemid=186


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Satellite TV is not for everybody. It's more technically complex at the customer installation level, with more things to go wrong than cable. So securing and maintaining a reliable installation is more challenging than cable. It's a personal decision, and I don't fault others for what they choose as their content provider.


I agree and I am willing to put up with these extra complexities to get the great picture quality and content D* delivers. Keep in mind, though, that they don't advertise it this way. The average Joe Sixpack will probably not understand what he's getting into until it's too late. If he's unhappy with cable, other than needing to return some equipment that he paid nothing for to begin with, he just has it cancel service and stop paying. With D*, he'll be locked into a commitment that can cost nearly $480 to terminate and on top of that, he will lose the up-front equipment lease fees.

While I understand D*'s pricing model, most people will not, especially because of their advertising that goes head-to-head against cable. D* needs to be much more up front with customers to explain these nuances of their service and pricing model. They don't and thus they get these sorts of complaints and even accusations of shady business practices.



Doug Brott said:


> Personally, I've been very happy with DIRECTV's customer service. Apparently other folks agree with me as they've earned the top spot for the eighth year in a row.
> 
> Press Release


Actually, that is "overall satisfaction with the service", which is not just "customer service" but the "product" as well. I'd probably give them a score somewhere in the 60's, too: picture quality and content a 90, equipment an 80, and customer service a 20 (all of out 100). Luckily, I get to enjoy the great picture quality/content and equipment much more often than I have to deal with the lousy customer service.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> I'm glad to hear the HD cable Tivo's are stable. However, as I understand it, they don't work with switched video being implemented by TWC, and Comcast's solution to their bandwidth problem, at least for now, has been to increase the number of digital channels in the same cable channel bandwidth, thereby reducing the PQ in the markets where this has been done. There's been plenty of discussion of the latter over at AVSForum.


I understand that this is a VOD issue only. On the other hand, a lot of the Comcast HD material appears to be VOD at this point in time, to conserve bandwidth. I also understand the HD TIVO will have new cable cards later this year that can accommodate switched video and make this issue go away. But no firm dates have been announced.

I completely agree with you on PQ, but hear that PQ is expected to improve over the next year as Comcast completes their transition from analog. D* PQ in MPEG4 is great now, and it remains to be seen if and when the cable guys will catch up.



K4SMX said:


> A new DirecTV Tivo offering would be good for those who don't care about SWM, MRV, Media Share, Media Share PC, and whatever else might be in the pipeline. Possibly it could at least be SWM-enabled. From DirecTV's point-of-view, there would be a lot of things to consider there. From a subscriber's point-of-view, I'm sure it would be well-received.


A couple of thoughts --

One, I personally am not impressed with the HR21 enhancements (SWM, MRV, Media Share, Media Share PC). I am sure they will be fun, but I perceive most of them to be in the category of whistles and bells. (SWM is a great idea, but came too late for my set-up.)

Two, if D* offered a TIVO box, there is no reason it could not license the SWM, MRV, Media Share, Media Share PC technology and software for use only in the new HD DirecTIVO box. When you compare the two platforms, it's not fair to give a win to the HR21 in categories where D* could level the playing field, but has given the HR21 the advantage merely by terminating cooperation and development on the Tivo platform.

Third, I am not going to be happy with the HR21 until it has Dual Live Buffers, usable slo-mo, and a quality skip function. These are basic functions, and there appears to be no plan to fix these problems. If the HR series was brand new, or there was announced commitment to fix these problems, I would be patient. IMHO, these important issues have been ignored for a long time and will continue to be ignored by D* unless the user base provides feedback about how they feel.

For now I can run the HR1-250 while I wait for the dust to settle. I am not happy with the HR21, but don't want to go to the evil cable empire. At the end of the year, the pull of the empire may be irresistible. D* needs to do something to fix the HR21 by then.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

jbrasure said:


> I would love to come back to DirecTV, but they need to fix their DVRs before I'll consider it. *Bring back Tivo!*


LOL.... Tivo is dead dude :beatdeadhorse:


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> A couple of thoughts --
> 
> One, I personally am not impressed with the HR21 enhancements (SWM, MRV, Media Share, Media Share PC). I am sure they will be fun, but I perceive most of them to be in the category of whistles and bells. (SWM is a great idea, but came too late for my set-up.)
> 
> ...


How are they not doing something to fix the HR2X series? Directv has put into place one of the best tools a company can, the CE program. It allows us the end user to find and document problems. If I took them time to do a search, I could probably come up with a number of problems that have been found and corrected thanks to the program.

For you these things are the difference between a good product and a bad one so I am in no way saying that your opinion is wrong. For me and others here, we are overall very pleased with the HR2x series.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

jodyguercio said:


> How are they not doing something to fix the HR2X series? Directv has put into place one of the best tools a company can, the CE program. It allows us the end user to find and document problems. If I took them time to do a search, I could probably come up with a number of problems that have been found and corrected thanks to the program.
> 
> For you these things are the difference between a good product and a bad one so I am in no way saying that your opinion is wrong. For me and others here, we are overall very pleased with the HR2x series.


You are clearly paying attention to the HR2x development and bug fix process. I have no doubt many bugs have been fixed. That is not my point.

How is D* doing on delivering Dual Live Buffers, usable slo-mo, and a skip function that works properly? When do you expect to see a CE that addresses those issues?

I don't think all of the "others here" are pleased. I think the board has lots of posters who are invested in the CE program (understandably), and more than happy to defend the HR21.

I also think there are many people who are expressing unhappiness with their experience with the HR21. The response is typically a chorus of "mine works!" Which simply encourages people not down with the HR21 program to simply avoid posting.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Third, I am not going to be happy with the HR21 until it has Dual Live Buffers, usable slo-mo, and a quality skip function. These are basic functions, and there appears to be no plan to fix these problems. If the HR series was brand new, or there was announced commitment to fix these problems, I would be patient. IMHO, these important issues have been ignored for a long time and will continue to be ignored by D* unless the user base provides feedback about how they feel.


I'll let the DLB debate rage on in its dedicated thread. Slow motion needs a fix, I agree, but I don't use it enough to care much. I'm wondering what you're referring to as far as the skip function is concerned? For me it works brilliantly - I press it 5-6 times during commercials and within seconds I'm watching the show again.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

OP - I would think of the basic function of a DVR is to record and playback content. Both of which the HR2x series does. Anything else would be bells and whistles.

I really don't buy that argument. Maybe in 2000, when the DVR was still competing with the VCR. Furthermore, one of the issues some people have with the HR21 is that it doesn't always record reliably!

Lets face it, the "skip" function is pretty crucial to a DVR, (you use it about 40 times an hour.) If the "skip" function doesn't work well, the DVR is a kludge, end of story.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I'll let the DLB debate rage on in its dedicated thread. Slow motion needs a fix, I agree, but I don't use it enough to care much. I'm wondering what you're referring to as far as the skip function is concerned? For me it works brilliantly - I press it 5-6 times during commercials and within seconds I'm watching the show again.


Several problems with the skip function as currently implemented:

1. Slow to respond to remote skipping forward
2. The sound jumps immediately, but the picture freezes for 1-3 seconds each time
3. Therefore, six jumps end up at 3:18, not 3:00
4. The skip back sometimes locks up and takes you back to the beginning of the program.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Several problems with the skip function as currently implemented:
> 
> 1. Slow to respond to remote skipping forward
> 2. The sound jumps immediately, but the picture freezes for 1-3 seconds each time
> ...


I don't experience those symptoms at all, or at least haven't noticed them. I assume from your description that you have 30SKIP enabled and not 30SLIP.


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> OP - I would think of the basic function of a DVR is to record and playback content. Both of which the HR2x series does. Anything else would be bells and whistles.
> 
> I really don't buy that argument. Maybe in 2000, when the DVR was still competing with the VCR. Furthermore, one of the issues some people have with the HR21 is that it doesn't always record reliably!
> 
> Lets face it, the "skip" function is pretty crucial to a DVR, (you use it about 40 times an hour.) If the "skip" function doesn't work well, the DVR is a kludge, end of story.


To address the first para: My HR20 is *very *unreliable. It does NOT do the basic functions that a DVR should. As you stated, it's not 2000 and D* _still_ can't provide a DVR that records and plays back reliably. It's beyond frustrating. I'd really like to get the basics fixed prior to any bells and whistles.

I know I'm very much debating whether I should leave D* after what seems like forever. I can't imagine doing it before the NFL season is over and I just HOPE that I don't have any blank recordings of games that I want to watch as I'm rarely able to get to watch my team live. If I miss one of those games due to a blank recording, you might be able to hear my screams from wherever it is that you all live.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> OP - I would think of the basic function of a DVR is to record and playback content. Both of which the HR2x series does. Anything else would be bells and whistles.
> 
> I really don't buy that argument. Maybe in 2000, when the DVR was still competing with the VCR. Furthermore, one of the issues some people have with the HR21 is that it doesn't always record reliably!
> 
> Lets face it, the "skip" function is pretty crucial to a DVR, (you use it about 40 times an hour.) If the "skip" function doesn't work well, the DVR is a kludge, end of story.


And some have the same problem with the HR10-250. Nothing is perfect.

As far as the "skip" function, I never enabled the 30skip as I prefer the 30slip. I have used both so its not that I dont know the difference, I just prefer the slip function. I can see where the lack of this function working as it should would be a problem; but is it really that much of a problem that the entire platform needs to be considered a kludge?


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> You are clearly paying attention to the HR2x development and bug fix process. I have no doubt many bugs have been fixed. That is not my point.
> 
> How is D* doing on delivering Dual Live Buffers, usable slo-mo, and a skip function that works properly? When do you expect to see a CE that addresses those issues?
> 
> ...


I do follow it closely as I would like to be able to help those who do have problems with their HR2xs.

DLB has its own thread as tcusta00 pointed out so I'll skip this one.

I didnt say that "all" of the other members here are please with their STBs. That would be a pretty bold statement on my part. I said that I and "others here" are pleased. Symantics I know so.....more times then not people post when they have a problem not when things are working well.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV is continuing to make improvements in this area. As all of the receivers are starting to have the same look and feel and new installer "programs" are coming into service, things will improve. A good company always looks for ways to make things better and DIRECTV is doing that.


Maybe so, Doug. But I have 3 friends who've had HR21s installed in the last couple of months. Two of them were the ones I got the "Frick and Frack" stories from. (They actually came up with that description, not me.) And the third one was asking a group of us last week what to do because his HR21 "freezes all the time". We told him to get on the phone to D* and have them fix the situation. Their box, their install, their problem. Fortunately, the other two haven't had any issues after their install, despite their experience with the installers. (Two and three weeks so far)

As much as I want to move from my SD DVRs, their experiences aren't encouraging me to make the jump.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Several problems with the skip function as currently implemented:
> 
> 1. Slow to respond to remote skipping forward


Yes, it is, but it does respond. If I press the button 8 times, it skips ahead 4 minutes, even if I don't see 8 flashes of the screen.



> 2. The sound jumps immediately, but the picture freezes for 1-3 seconds each time


Yes, I have experienced this, too, but it's not a big deal to me. It does mean that I have skipped too far, so I just press the "back" button once and allis good.



> 3. Therefore, six jumps end up at 3:18, not 3:00


Huh? I have no problems like that. If I press the button 6 times, I will be about 3 minutes ahead.



> 4. The skip back sometimes locks up and takes you back to the beginning of the program.


I've never experienced this. I wonder if you have a bad hard disk?

And since we're on the subject of complaining about the skip function, I must say that I am very pleased with its functionality now that I have a choice between 30SLIP and 30SKIP. Personally, I use 30SKIP because that is what I was used to under the old UTV O/S, but I have to say a big "Thank You" to the D* development team for giving us a choice in this.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Several problems with the skip function as currently implemented:
> 
> 1. Slow to respond to remote skipping forward
> 2. The sound jumps immediately, but the picture freezes for 1-3 seconds each time
> ...





tcusta00 said:


> I don't experience those symptoms at all, or at least haven't noticed them. I assume from your description that you have 30SKIP enabled and not 30SLIP.


Agreed, 30SKIP works great for me .. I don't see how this is any different from TiVo .. well, except that once you set it is stays set. With TiVo you had to set it each time you rebooted.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

I got 4 bad refurbs in a row--there's no question they just get em in and ship em right out unfixed. D* is running out of control, every new upgrade you download has more new bugs than fixes. It's a classic example of a troubled company in need of an intervention and reorg. You always see the dysfunction at the user level first.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Maruuk said:


> Gotta love the quick responses around here. And I got zero response from my email to tech as well. These guys are probably in receivership already...


Maybe I missed something, but you have two posts one minute apart, and neither is really asking for any suggestions that anyone here could help you with.

As for emailing DirecTV, most of the comments I have heard is that they do respond (but not instantly, give it a day or two), and usually resolve the customers problem.

As to their processing of refurbs, I don't have any first hand knowledge of their operation or what it is supposed to do or accomplish. From a number of posts on-line, it would appear at least some refurbs go out that shouldn't.

You say you got four refurbs in a row. You will always get a refurb if you are having a receiver replaced for a problem. They do not ship new units for that purpose.

As far as "every new upgrade you download", if you are downloading CE versions you should expect issues - that's why they have the program, to find problems. You should not need to force download of the national release, that should happen automatically.

Carl


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

jodyguercio said:


> And some have the same problem with the HR10-250. Nothing is perfect.
> 
> As far as the "skip" function, I never enabled the 30skip as I prefer the 30slip. I have used both so its not that I dont know the difference, I just prefer the slip function. I can see where the lack of this function working as it should would be a problem; but is it really that much of a problem that the entire platform needs to be considered a kludge?


I do think the a good skip feature is an essential element for a DVR. The fact that it is still a problem on the HR21 is extremely frustrating.

Please also note that I am not having any hardware problems with my HR21. None. (Knock on wood, your mileage may vary). I know some people have serious hardware issues, but I can't speak to those issues from personal experience. I believe all of my problems are software related.

There are also a lot of issues with the HR21 design that lead me to my feeling that it is a kludge. I have talked about those elsewhere, and won't repeat all of them here. Bottom line, there are elements of the HR2x interface that I think could have been implemented better, and that I really, really don't like. (Like not populating the to do list in real time after scheduling a series.)

The HR10-250 has basically all of its problems shaken out. Mine was a little sensitive to power dips when I first had it. After adding a UPS, it has been extremely reliable in heavy use. The software has also been basically trouble free for me. No software is perfect, but the HR10-250 software is excellent. The HR21 software is, IMHO, not yet in that class.


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## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

I have had zero problems with my HR21 but I still don't like it. Once you have tried the true functionality of a good vcr like the VIP722, nothing else seems as good. I got the VOD to working so I do like that with the HR21.


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

I came pretty close to dropping D* tonight after 7+ years.
It's been since April and I'm still having big green/grey/pixalation issues. Called again, got some super sarcastic woman. Blech.
See post here 
I'm trying a tech but am not particularly hopeful...


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Did you ever try the cold reboot I suggested in response to your post back on May 10?


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## achildfromthe80s (Mar 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Most folks get installers to help out with putting the equipment in .. Same can be said for Comcast, BTW. As for customer service, one of the worst experiences that I have ever had was with Comcast and I have made a personal choice to NEVER go back to Comacast.
> 
> The HR2x works great for me and for many others as is evidenced here on the forums. Yes, there are some issues that people have, but DIRECTV is actively working to correct issues. I don't think the same can be said about Comcast.


Hi Doug,

I have to agree with you to a point. Comcast has some of the most horrible customer service issues in the country. Bar none! I hate to deal with them both at the consumer level and the business level. In fact, most of my customers have given me orders that as soon as FIOS is available, jump. I don't even need an ok. That is how bad Comcast has gotten.

However! As evidenced on this board, DirecTV's customer service department has gone down the tubes horribly. One of the major reasons I moved from Dish was because of horrible customer service. When I got to DirecTV, thier CS was top notch. I was very happy with the service. Then, just after the launch of the new HD stations everything went to pot. I think some of it was in part due to sending some calls to an Indian call center. My final straw has been with the whole receiver mess. Not the lockups which has been challenging but dealable. It was the whole swap out mess. What I mean is the extension of the contract when swapping out equipment under the PP. I fought long and hard with them about the issue and they refused to budge. Even when I asked for it in writing and even when I pointed out the PP wasn't supposed to bump the contract. It was just the fact they either wern't trained well enough to understand what was going on or didn't want to deal with it. It wasn't until I found a friend that this was taken care of. If not for the fact the new HD stations haven't launched yet on FIOS i'd be long gone and that makes me sad because I loved DirecTV but it left a bad taste in my mouth after the receiver mess.

Brad


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## The_Kiwi_Audio_Guy (Jun 10, 2008)

Another "thing" that most people seem to conveniently "forget" - is the basic definition - of time-shifting... 

Originally - this was placed in copyright laws - to allow delayed watching - as a once_only "medium" ... to allow the actual "watching" to occur at a "time" - suitable to the viewer.

Unfortunately... some "gits" - in the media industry... try to "infer" - that the actual "time" (length) that the shift - is to occur... is only in the matter of days, and in more bizzare circumstances - in this easy to delete - digital age.... 

some encrypt their transmissions - to deliberately "delete" - within hours - of the original broadcast...

sorry ... but "my" reference cycle .. is years.... 

as something that "I" want to watch... in full colour - multiple channel surround sound... yet was "broadcast" in say 1986 - 

can "legitimately" be kept on a "recording"- for me to "view" (once only) - 

in my old age - 

on only then available - suffisticated multipe deplexer decoded systems...
for "my pleasure" - 

not for the original broadcasters finite pleasure.

Thus... several of the digital recording "blanking & timeshift "slider issues - 
which many of you experience ... 

may actually be related to incorrectly encoded encryptions - 
destroying your recordings - 

in order to apply an archaic copyright interpretation.???
... just a "thought"...


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## The_Kiwi_Audio_Guy (Jun 10, 2008)

Ok - after being thunderously 'wrapt' over the proverbrial "virtual_knuckles" by one of the moderators "here" - I have done some background searchings... and discovered a small interesting "fact" about direcTV's satelitte BEAM problems... and these may actually be the "cause" of some of your problems here guys... (& girls - plus other 3rd gender's - like mine) ... but "direcTV" has had several issues - one is with "BEAM patterns - resulting in a limited transmission - in certain areas - functions, and another is the "use" of the segment of the satelittes - which was originally intended for downloading - not uploading.... and thus these "transmissions" obtain interferences - from LOCALISED - land_based transmission servers... especially anything requiring B-Band transponders..... maybe a qk check to wikipedia - (en.wikipedia.org) ... wiki .... DirecTV-10 shall explain this to someone with more 'savy' than myself?


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## The_Kiwi_Audio_Guy (Jun 10, 2008)

Also - as it "appears" that I cannot deliver to you the "actually helpfull" references PDF - that you "may need" - I shall use a slightly "longer_work_around"...
please bear with me...(it's not my intention to deliberately annoy - but to advise)

http 
then a 
:
with a couple of froward slashes
then the std triple web thing and a DOT
boeing.com
goes to another forward slash
defense-space
slash this 2
space (slash again)
bss

& then slash all these 

factsheets
702
dtv10-11-12_factsheet.pdf


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## The_Kiwi_Audio_Guy (Jun 10, 2008)

thus "sectime" - I believe that I may have "provided" you - with a faint glimer of "hope" (in keeping to your loyalty with direcTV - since that long time ago - in 1998).

[your "THREAD" quote]
I think I'm done with Directv

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a ***** thread move on if you don't like it I have been a customer since 98. Never have I had the hassles of the last 3 months. Freezes, black recordings, missed recordings. Now When trying to watch a purchased HD movie, about 2 minutes of movie then the screen freezes and I get the message "searching for authorized content". I have had a 20-100, 20-700, and now a 21-700 in the last 2 months. Every time CS says they are doing me a favor by not extending my contract. They have all been refurbs. I just got off the phone again, I was on hold for 25 minutes only to have the CS rep tell me that he can't do anything because the system is updating. What a third rate/world company this has become. It was pretty funny listening to him whine how he has been dumped on all evening for system screwups. Something about a PPV fight and a NASCAR race.
[unquote]


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

rudeney said:


> I agree and I am willing to put up with these extra complexities to get the great picture quality and content D* delivers. Keep in mind, though, that they don't advertise it this way. The average Joe Sixpack will probably not understand what he's getting into until it's too late. If he's unhappy with cable, other than needing to return some equipment that he paid nothing for to begin with, he just has it cancel service and stop paying. With D*, he'll be locked into a commitment that can cost nearly $480 to terminate and on top of that, he will lose the up-front equipment lease fees.
> 
> While I understand D*'s pricing model, most people will not, especially because of their advertising that goes head-to-head against cable. D* needs to be much more up front with customers to explain these nuances of their service and pricing model. They don't and thus they get these sorts of complaints and even accusations of shady business practices.
> 
> Actually, that is "overall satisfaction with the service", which is not just "customer service" but the "product" as well. I'd probably give them a score somewhere in the 60's, too: picture quality and content a 90, equipment an 80, and customer service a 20 (all of out 100). Luckily, I get to enjoy the great picture quality/content and equipment much more often than I have to deal with the lousy customer service.


This is probably one of the most honest posts I've read in a long time.

The poster is correct that the average person 'does not know what he is getting into' until its too late and he is in a $480 hole.

And part of 'what he is getting into' is assuming the responsibilty for bad installations, bad equipment, and bad customer service after his his 24 hour or 90 day get-out-of-jail card expires.

After that, he is on his own to solve his problems with countless hours on the phone, cash out of his pocket, and commitment extensions.

Customer satisfaction with Direct TV policies - BELOW ZERO.


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## davidpoe (Jan 18, 2008)

If is wasn't for NFL Sunday Ticket, I would be switching to FIOS TV, I'm giving Directv one more year, if the hr21 doesn't improve, I'm gone also. It's sad because up until D's big HD push I was one of their biggest advocates.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

When I took the HD plunge last June, I thought I knew what I was getting into.

The HR20 line -- work in progress, but getting better. I knew it didn't have DLB, but Mr. Bonovich made it clear that D* was aware of this and were working on it.

So, haveing been with D* for four years already, I decided to stick with the known evil, instead of the unknown of Dish.

Now a year later, the HR20 is actually less reliable and less responsive then it was three months ago, and no DLB in site. In fact, it may never come.

My decision for next year when my 2 year contract is up is simple -- if the HR20 improves reliability and gets DLB, I will stay. Otherwise I will be going to Dish.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

davidpoe said:


> If is wasn't for NFL Sunday Ticket, I would be switching to FIOS TV, I'm giving Directv one more year, if the hr21 doesn't improve, I'm gone also. It's sad because up until D's big HD push I was one of their biggest advocates.


You think FOIS has a better DVR? Head on over to avsforum and search for "fios dvr problem" and you'll see how much better it is.

Here's a nice one: "I want to smash my FIOS TV DVR with a hammer!"

First response in that thread after the guy's rant, from a poster with 11,000+ posts, "Those criticisms are fairly common."


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

Should I feel guilty for having 3 Directv receivers that have no problems? HR20, HR21, and R15...all great. Couldn't be happier.

I remember being a little bothered when my 2 HDTivos went belly-up but I never entertained the notion of changing providers.


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> You think FOIS has a better DVR? Head on over to avsforum and search for "fios dvr problem" and you'll see how much better it is.
> 
> Here's a nice one: "I want to smash my FIOS TV DVR with a hammer!"
> 
> First response in that thread after the guy's rant, from a poster with 11,000+ posts, "Those criticisms are fairly common."


Strangely enough... Those criticisms are fairly common with my HR20.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

durl said:


> Should I feel guilty for having 3 Directv receivers that have no problems? HR20, HR21, and R15...all great. Couldn't be happier.
> 
> I remember being a little bothered when my 2 HDTivos went belly-up but I never entertained the notion of changing providers.


Don't feel guilty. My guess is that for the most part, your experiences are probably about average. I am sure there are some HR2x's out there that have had severe hardware problems, but I'll bet most are humming along just fine 99% of the time.

I have a coworker who had an HR20 installed back in 2006 at the same time I did and he said he's had no issues at all other than the occasional reboot. I've asked him about DOD, media share and other enhancements and he has no clue. I asked him about blank recordings and such and he said he thinks he might have had it happen once, but he figured it was just some "weird problem". And this guy is no "Joe Sixpack", he's a well-educated very smart computer programmer.


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> LOL.... Tivo is dead dude :beatdeadhorse:


Naa, it's only dead on satellite. It's alive and well on cable.


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> You think FOIS has a better DVR? Head on over to avsforum and search for "fios dvr problem" and you'll see how much better it is.
> 
> Here's a nice one: "I want to smash my FIOS TV DVR with a hammer!"
> 
> First response in that thread after the guy's rant, from a poster with 11,000+ posts, "Those criticisms are fairly common."


The Tivo Series 3 works with FIOS, so there is an alternative.


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## gb07 (Jun 1, 2008)

If as some posters say, the HR2X series dvrs are improving I would hate to imagine what they were like before.

I've allready swapped out one hr21 in 3 months, and after reading all the other posts, I wont do it again. I cant believe I swapped out my hr10-250 for this pile of steaming you know what. (Can you tell I'm frustrated?)

I originally bought my first tivo dvr several years ago, a series one, for one reason. I didnt have time to keep up with the Nascar schedule, and didnt have time to sit and watch the race when it was on. I finally talked my wife into getting a tivo, and after she reluctantly conceded, we havent watched live tv since. This box did its job, and did it well. Never missed a race. Let me watch it on my time, when I want, and let me skip all the commercials and yellow flags.

When directv started selling the tivo dvr's I was sold from day one. Two wonderful companies working together in holy matrimony! lol. I was in heaven.

Then the hr10-250 was revealed. It just couldnt get any better. I had the tivo functionality, and HD TV to boot. Again, the tivo no matter who made the box consistently got the shows I wanted to watch. Sometimes I might have a problem managing the season pass, but always found a workaround to get what I wanted, when I wanted. No fancy media share, didnt worry about 30 seconds skips, strictly looking at it as a basic dvr box it has always worked with maybe one or two hiccups in a 3-6 month period on average.

Now enter the hr21. I went in with a bad attitude allready, because I couldnt get used to the menus and how they looked, but I figured if it does what the tivo did I could get used to the menus, besides, they got speed tv in hd, whats not to love?

Well I'm ready for a divorce. If I'm not at home when a race is on(doesnt seem to matter what race, be it f1, indy car, nascar) and hit the record button when the race is on, it will miss the race. Consistently. Two different boxes, same result. In fact last weekend, I purposely was out of the house and drove back home during the f1 race to see if it was recording, after MANUALLY telling it to record the f1 race before I left the house. Nothing else scheduled, it had nothing else to do but record that race and the nascar race. It canceled both races for no reason that I can think of. So in this respect, as a basic DVR box, this box is absolutely worthless to me. You can brag about dual live feed, 30 second skips, slow mo's, media share all you want. I dont give a crap. I just want a box that does what my now almost 8 year old tivo box used to do, which was record what I wanted it to. I dont think that is too much to ask.

I'm not going to get into the screen freezes, dropped audio, blank recordings, delayed audio, deleting one program and losing another, pixelization during viewing, all in a three month time. If it would just record what I want it to, I could forgive it for all the other blemishes. 

When my contract is up, I will be gone, regretabbly. I cannot support a company that imprisons us with contracts and then wont provide the service I am paying for. They want me to commit to them, but they wont commit to me to provide me with a box that works. Actually, they wont ADMIT that their box doesnt work, and thats the main thing. If they admit that it doesnt work, then they would have a hard time enforcing the two year committment contract. For the life of me I dont understand why they dont just stick with providing the signal, and let someone else worry about making the DVR. I really dont want to be the beta tester for them.


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

I feel your pain gb07.

To be fair, cable isn't perfect either. (I have Comcast and a Tivo S3.) The picture quality isn't as good as DirecTV during fast motion scenes, and sometimes there are playback hick-ups or pixelation for a second. However, overall I'm MUCH happier with my cable/Tivo setup. It never misses a recording, never needs to be rebooted, always records audio, is easier to use, and is a rock solid reliable DVR.

Come on over to the dark side and give cable a try.

In the mean time, keep lurking on this forum. Maybe one day DirecTV will get their act together, and all of us defectors can return.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

My HR21 just advanced to the end of the Celtics game 3 times while I was advancing it at mid-game with the so-called :30 skip function. Freezes, reboots, sometimes takes :10+ just to tune a channel, the trick play is totally sloppy and unpredictable, and it always starts freezes and stuttering. The hardware and software together are garbage. D* needs to start with a clean slate and design a product that works correctly, instead of trying to put more lipstick on this pig with each successive buggy update.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I understand that this is a VOD issue only.


No, it's not just a VOD issue. It's from the fact that Comcast carries too many analog channels and doesn't have the room they need. I've hit on this elsewhere - here's what's happening (and to be fair it's not to all their channels - but it is most). When you run QAM, you can accomodate just under 40Mbps per QAM channel. Since MPEG-2 video peaks at 19.4 Mbps, you can comfortably fit two HD channels on a single QAM channel without a problem. Which is what Comcast USED to do. They've taken to running 3:2 compression - squeezing 3 HD channels per QAM channel. Now, you can minimize the resulting artifacts by grouping channels 'correctly'. That is, not all HD channels broadcast at the same rate (e.g. I have FiOS, and when I record something on HDNet, it takes twice as much room on my DVR as something coming in on UHD, in general), and that 19.4 is a peak rate (less motion requires a lower refresh rate for the information being sent).

Still, compression is compression, and data loss is data loss, and it all leads to the same place - compression artifacts. This is made worse by the fact that Comcast already overcompresses their SD digital channels. Again, running MPEG-2, you can comfortably fit 9 - 10 SD channels per QAM channel (on average) - I forget the exact number, but Comcast is probably at 12 - 15 per QAM channel.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> You think FOIS has a better DVR? Head on over to avsforum and search for "fios dvr problem" and you'll see how much better it is.
> 
> Here's a nice one: "I want to smash my FIOS TV DVR with a hammer!"
> 
> First response in that thread after the guy's rant, from a poster with 11,000+ posts, "Those criticisms are fairly common."


Wait a second... the second guy has 11,000 posts... regarding what? How does it follow that because he's a prolific poster that he's an expert on the dvr? What's his basis for that assessment?

That being said - I have the motorola dvr with fios, and it works fine for the most part. It does have a couple of issues with recording (like anything else, the s/w on the DVR is still new - only rolled out about 6 months ago), and there have been improvements (the last release really did improve the recording stability). The two main issues that I had (although, again, not so much anymore): it would cancel recordings that you scheduled, and sometimes series would go 'stale' - that is I would have to delete and redefine them.

As for the other problems that guy listed - I never had ANY of those - not once. Nor have I read about those problems before in all the fios forum threads that I've perused over time. I don't mean to jump on you (this isn't directed at you), but to say that those are 'common criticisms' is just silly - they're not. The DVR does have problems with some missed recordings, and yeah, it does get frustrating, but not enough (for me) to cause me to jump to tivo (I'd miss the VOD programming too much - and I really like the new guide interface in the fios s/w).

Edit - look at the date of that thread - February. Right around the time the first version of the s/w rolled out. We've had a couple updates since then, and like I said, the last really did improve the recording reliability of the box.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

jbrasure said:


> Naa, it's only dead on satellite. It's alive and well on cable.


Oh really? You should check the Comcast-TiVo threads in the HD Recorder sub-forum @ AVSForum to see how _well_ that unit is doing.

And if you're doing the S3 or TiVo HD in an area where SDV has been deployed, you're twidling your thumbs waiting for that tuning resolver to be released, while other folks watch all the HD available to them.

Lie down with Cable, get up with fleas.


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

bidger said:


> Oh really? You should check the Comcast-TiVo threads in the HD Recorder sub-forum @ AVSForum to see how _well_ that unit is doing.


Huh, I thought you said Tivo was dead? If it's dead, then how come so many people are talking about it on AVSForum as you mentioned. People don't usually talk about dead products.

Then see how the reviews on Amazon look. Wow, the Tivo S3 gets 4.5 out of 5 stars with 172 customer reviews. The HR20 only gets 2.5.

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD648250B-Series3-Digital-Recorder/dp/B000I661J0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213202668&sr=8-1

So yeah, maybe not everybody likes Tivo. That I believe. Other people have terrible problems with it. That I believe too. But you don't get a 4.5 star rating from Amazon for a dead product that most people hate. Tivo seems to be doing fairly well.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

durl said:


> Should I feel guilty for having 3 Directv receivers that have no problems? HR20, HR21, and R15...all great. Couldn't be happier.


LOL me too. 7 DVR's and they all run great. Never missed one recording or have any issues. :sure:


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> LOL me too. 7 DVR's and they all run great. Never missed one recording or have any issues. :sure:


Trust me, I'll come back to DirecTV once I hear positive remarks like that from 90% of the users. However, right now I think it's more like 60% - 70%. That's too low for me to make the switch.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

jbrasure said:


> Huh, I thought you said Tivo was dead? If it's dead, then how come so many people are talking about it on AVSForum as you mentioned.


First, I'm not the one you quoted as saying that TiVo is dead, it was Blitz68. Second, if you notice my original comment about the Comcast-TiVo, you'll notice that "well" is italicized, meaning it's not doing well. Here's a post with one user expressing their frustration, and for those with broadband, here's a post with a YouTube link of someone setting up a Season Pass on a Comcast-TiVo. Takes me back to the pre-6.x days of the HR10. 

And yeah, there are a good number of views on the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD threads there, but there are more views for the ones started about multichannel providers DVRs. That tells me there are more users _not_ using TiVo.


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## jbrasure (Oct 9, 2006)

bidger said:


> First, I'm not the one you quoted as saying that TiVo is dead, it was Blitz68. Second, if you notice my original comment about the Comcast-TiVo, you'll notice that "well" is italicized, meaning it's not doing well. Here's a post with one user expressing their frustration, and for those with broadband, here's a post with a YouTube link of someone setting up a Season Pass on a Comcast-TiVo. Takes me back to the pre-6.x days of the HR10.
> 
> And yeah, there are a good number of views on the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD threads there, but there are more views for the ones started about multichannel providers DVRs. That tells me there are more users _not_ using TiVo.


Sorry about confusing your identity with Blitz68. I need to watch the usernames more carefully.

Ah yes, the Comcast-Tivo (the ones that are non-Tivo hardware upgraded with Tivo software) are considerably worse than the Tivo manufactured products. I've heard bad things about them, and I'm certainly not defending those. I'm simply saying that the Tivo Series 3 is a wonderful product!


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

I"m tired of this hr 21-700 i got the black screen when i recorded the unit on cbs the other night. it gave ablack screen when i recorded the celtics - hawls playoff game last month , and i continue to have audio and video dropouts on ktla 5 in L.A.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

jbrasure said:


> Trust me, I'll come back to DirecTV once I hear positive remarks like that from 90% of the users. However, right now I think it's more like 60% - 70%. That's too low for me to make the switch.


Some of us are tired of repeatedly posting our remarks of praise. I have done so many times in the last couple of years.

If I had gotten "lemon" HR20s I'd probably never get tired of posting about them.


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> Some of us are tired of repeatedly posting our remarks of praise. I have done so many times in the last couple of years.
> 
> If I had gotten "lemon" HR20s I'd probably never get tired of posting about them.


Not directed at paulman182, but Good point. I know I never get tired of posting each and every time I get a blank recording.

could you imagine if everyone posted each time their DVR _did_ record what and when it was supposed to? It would probably be a busy board and maybe this site would have to curb it with a sticky topic like they do with DLB or Blank recordings.

But, then again, that's kind of the point. The DVR should do its' basic functions and for many people it does not. I don't believe this DVR should need the positive reinforcement of a toddler when it does what it should. :grin:


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

bradfjoh said:


> Not directed at paulman182, but Good point. I know I never get tired of posting each and every time I get a blank recording.
> 
> could you imagine if everyone posted each time their DVR _did_ record what and when it was supposed to? It would probably be a busy board and maybe this site would have to curb it with a sticky topic like they do with DLB or Blank recordings.
> 
> But, then again, that's kind of the point. The DVR should do its' basic functions and for many people it does not. I don't believe this DVR should need the positive reinforcement of a toddler when it does what it should. :grin:


Just keep in mind that you have a very small microcosm of D* users and DVR owners out here. There are tens of thousands of people out there who have D* DVRs and don't know about DBSTalk, and don't even care.

You're much more likely to get issues out here, and they will far outweigh positive comments. That's the nature of an online forum. Reporting the issue here is good, and oftentimes someone may have a solution to a specific issue.

But overall, if you do have issues, it's D* that has to solve them for you, not a forum like this or the other one. I had an issue, reported it here and then called D* about it. The issue was solved quickly.

Personally, I have NEVER had a blank or black recording. My DVR functions the way that its supposed to. Since so many people are in the same boat, then oftentimes its a combination of the DVR, HDTV and any ancillary accessories attached to a home entertainment system that causes some of the malfunctions.

That's not to say that these issues don't exist, just that they don't affect everyone the same way.

So, in essence, bashing D* for something that isn't happening across the board tells me that we may need to look a bit further into our own setups and maybe even have D* troubleshoot a recurring problem with a bad DVR.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

jpl said:


> Wait a second... the second guy has 11,000 posts... regarding what? How does it follow that because he's a prolific poster that he's an expert on the dvr? What's his basis for that assessment?


I'm not saying that he's an expert, I'm just saying that he's obviously been around for some time so his statement would carry some more weight than a guy with 20 posts. I don't know why you'd assume I'm christening the guy as an expert. 


jpl said:


> That being said - I have the motorola dvr with fios, and it works fine for the most part. It does have a couple of issues with recording (like anything else, the s/w on the DVR is still new - only rolled out about 6 months ago), and there have been improvements (the last release really did improve the recording stability). The two main issues that I had (although, again, not so much anymore): it would cancel recordings that you scheduled, and sometimes series would go 'stale' - that is I would have to delete and redefine them.
> 
> As for the other problems that guy listed - I never had ANY of those - not once. Nor have I read about those problems before in all the fios forum threads that I've perused over time. I don't mean to jump on you (this isn't directed at you), but to say that those are 'common criticisms' is just silly - they're not. The DVR does have problems with some missed recordings, and yeah, it does get frustrating, but not enough (for me) to cause me to jump to tivo (I'd miss the VOD programming too much - and I really like the new guide interface in the fios s/w).
> 
> Edit - look at the date of that thread - February. Right around the time the first version of the s/w rolled out. We've had a couple updates since then, and like I said, the last really did improve the recording reliability of the box.


Just because you haven't had problems doesn't mean others haven't. I haven't had a major issue with my HR21s since I've had them, except for three blank recordings, and that was months ago. You can't assume that others are having the same experience you are.

Here's a more recent post of someone with issues, if that's what you're looking for:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14050228#post14050228


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

MartyS said:


> Just keep in mind that you have a very small microcosm of D* users and DVR owners out here. There are tens of thousands of people out there who have D* DVRs and don't know about DBSTalk, and don't even care.


Millions actually. If there were 5,000 unhappy customers out of 5,000,000, that would represent 0.1% (one tenth of one percent), which is a very satisfactory achievement for any company. If ten percent of the 5,000 unhappy customers went on line and complained, that would be fairly representative of what we see here.

Carl


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## gb07 (Jun 1, 2008)

MartyS said:


> Just keep in mind that you have a very small microcosm of D* users and DVR owners out here. There are tens of thousands of people out there who have D* DVRs and don't know about DBSTalk, and don't even care.
> 
> You're much more likely to get issues out here, and they will far outweigh positive comments. That's the nature of an online forum. Reporting the issue here is good, and oftentimes someone may have a solution to a specific issue.
> 
> ...


I fail to see how my setup could be the problem. I had the installer install a new 5 lnb dish, the signal strength is over 95% on almost all of the transponders, on both tuners, and I have one hdmi cable going straight to the tv. I dont have any electrical problems to speak of so I do not have a line conditioner installed. If that is what it takes to make the machine work, that is something directv should provide, not me. My box doesnt lock up or shut off, and it always has a signal. The main problem is it simply decides to tell me to &^%$ off when I want to record a race.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

MartyS said:


> Just keep in mind that you have a very small microcosm of D* users and DVR owners out here. There are tens of thousands of people out there who have D* DVRs and don't know about DBSTalk, and don't even care.


I agree. Online forums are always going to be filled with the "outliers" of the customer base. The average customer just isn't going to be an avid participant.



> You're much more likely to get issues out here, and they will far outweigh positive comments. That's the nature of an online forum. Reporting the issue here is good, and oftentimes someone may have a solution to a specific issue.


Again, I agree. It would be a pretty boring (and full) forum if everyone came along and posted each time they successfully used a function on their DVR's.



> But overall, if you do have issues, it's D* that has to solve them for you, not a forum like this or the other one. I had an issue, reported it here and then called D* about it. The issue was solved quickly.


The problem is that DirecTV *doesn't* solve a lot of these type problems. While these problems may be seemingly insignificant when compared to how often the DVR's work properly, D* should give these issues the same attention they do when they are the ones experiencing the problem, such as a customer who misses paying a bill or when they discover someone is violating the terms of service for their intellectual property. The reality is that D* doesn't care because they are in control. They hire incompetent CSR's and then fail to train them to do anything except increase revenue ("Do you want fries, um, I mean Sunday Ticket with that?"). They ignore these problems and blame them on the customer or worse yet, charge the customer to get them corrected.



> Personally, I have NEVER had a blank or black recording. My DVR functions the way that its supposed to.


Then you are either very lucky, or you don't use the equipment as much as others, or you are just not as sensitive to these type failures.



> Since so many people are in the same boat, then oftentimes its a combination of the DVR, HDTV and any ancillary accessories attached to a home entertainment system that causes some of the malfunctions.


I disagree that, "so many people are in the same boat (of never having problems)." I have no quantitative data, but based on the people here (and not here) that I know with HR2x's, I'd guess that more people do have problems than don't. It just depends on the person and the problem as to how badly it affects enjoyment and perceived value. In my case, I've experienced nearly every problem reported here on DBSTalk, yet overall, I am still satisfied with the DVR. I've never had a DVR that was perfect (my only other experience is with UTV), so I expect and tolerate some problems. So far, none have been bad enough that I would do more than come here and mention "me too" in an issues thread.



> That's not to say that these issues don't exist, just that they don't affect everyone the same way.


I agree with that. I know many people were having issues trying to record American Idol this season. But for people who never watch it and didn't record it, then they never had the problem. I never record car races, so I never have the problems GB07 has.



> So, in essence, bashing D* for something that isn't happening across the board tells me that we may need to look a bit further into our own setups and maybe even have D* troubleshoot a recurring problem with a bad DVR.


As long as the receiver is getting a good signal, I don't see how a failed recording could be contributed to "our own setups". Recording is something that happens within the D* equipment itself. Maybe some failures are caused by bad guide data or problems with the original channel's broadcast that is beyond D*'s control, but the fact is that we the customers pay *DIRECTV* to deliver this to us. If they can't do that, then they need to stop charging us for something they can't provide. Trust me, if we stop paying, they will stop providing service.


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