# Moving to new neighborhood and DirecTV commitment



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

We are looking to move to a new neighborhood. Unfortunately, their HOA apparently struck some agreement with Comcast (ugh) to provide cable and high speed internet and it is built into the HOA monthly dues which are $152/month. 

My big problem is at the time I would move there I would still have a 1 year commitment left on the HR21 I got for our master bedroom last September. 

I looked in this neighborhood and did not see satellite dishes anywhere, as opposed to everywhere else around here where they are very common. Obviously because who is going to pay for cable AND satellite TV? Well, maybe some people do but I really can't justify it, especially when this is going to be a much bigger mortgage than what I have now. 

To top it off, Verizon FIOS just became available where I'm at and I got it in February, and guess what - am locked into a 2 year agreement for the high speed internet part. I didn't get the TV part since already had DirecTV obviously. 

Anyway, never figured I'd run into this problem. Does anyone know if perhaps in an instance like this, the case can be made to DirecTV to break the agreement? I highly doubt it, and suppose it is really wishful thinking on my part. Again, I'm happy with DirecTV and would stay with them, but moving to this neighborhood it sort of isn't an option from a financial point of view. Believe me, not looking forward to go back to Comcast! 

So wondering if there's anyone out there who's ran into this problem when they've moved? Again, I think I'm just going to have to pay the buyout fee and be done with it, but I'm afraid to find out what it is. I'm even more scared regarding the FIOS internet - given that I'll have around 1 1/2 years left on a 2 year commitment. Moving wasn't on the horizon for me when I got FIOS back in February, and even more so when I got the 2nd HD DVR last September.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

There were some unscrupulous builders/developers down here that had the same program with the cable company. Fortunately the homeowners revolted and a law was passed putting a stop to the practice. I have no use for HOA's. Hope you find a solution.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I believe you probably will need to buy out your remaining contract, buts its not as bad as many think. There are many posts here about the ETF, and what it costs. BTW since you are loking at moving, I would seriously consider not looking in that particular neighborhood as it sounds like a real piece of work, not a place I would want to settle in where they tell you everything you can and cant do, even making your entertainment choices for you.


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## beavis (Jun 9, 2005)

Just one of the 3,000 reasons I would never move anywhere with an HOA. The only way you could get out of your D* contract would be if the tech determined there was no line of site to the sats. Otherwise, you're pretty much SOL. 

FYI, most HD upgrades carry a 2 year commit, not 1. You should call D* and ask about that.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

The best thing for you to do is email Directv explaining your situation. Expect to pay the ETF, but who knows, you might get lucky.


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

beavis said:


> Just one of the 3,000 reasons I would never move anywhere with an HOA. The only way you could get out of your D* contract would be if the tech determined there was no line of site to the sats. Otherwise, you're pretty much SOL.
> 
> FYI, most HD upgrades carry a 2 year commit, not 1. You should call D* and ask about that.


Surprised that any county here in NVA would allow that and Comcast no less. Curious to who the builder is that would do this since Comcast isn't exactly liked around these parts. Comcast use to be the only cable serving the PW areas and FIOS is now in most of Manassas and the outskirts. If your builder is in FFC I would seek the help of the county on this one.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

My sister moved into a similar situation last year, but she was no longer under contract with DirecTV when she moved so it wasn't as big of an issue.

If you _really_ like the neighborhood don't let a little thing like TV get in the way - it's only TV, after all. Get on the HOA board once you move in and make a change. If you're there long enough people will start to listen and you can effect real changes. It just takes time and persistence. There's usually only a few dedicated people on these boards anyway so it's easy to get in and help the community while making silly socialist rules like this go away.

You may also want to reduce your DirecTV package down to the lowest amount possible ($30 or so per month) for the year left in your contract which may end up being cheaper than an ETF. Worth investigating...


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## Stewpidity (Jan 26, 2008)

WashDCHR20 said:


> We are looking to move to a new neighborhood. Unfortunately, their HOA apparently struck some agreement with Comcast (ugh) to provide cable and high speed internet and it is built into the HOA monthly dues which are $152/month.
> 
> My big problem is at the time I would move there I would still have a 1 year commitment left on the HR21 I got for our master bedroom last September.
> 
> ...


I am not sure if this is possible but couldn't you just drop to the lowest D* plan 30-35 dollars a month ? A Monthly payment maybe easier to deal with than a one time full buyout ? Also, Sometimes(rarley) companies due have a loophole if your forced to move because of work(the company you work for is trnsferring you, etc) it can get you out of your contract...but it is rare, but worth a shot..


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Good Lord! What else do you get for the $152/mo HOA fees? I hope there’s a community pool and tennis courts. I’m the treasurer for my HOA and we have 130 houses and have to maintain alleyways and other “common” areas. Our dues are only $150 per *year*. Of course we don’t have cable included.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

beavis said:


> Just one of the 3,000 reasons I would never move anywhere with an HOA.


And conversely, I wouldn't move anywhere without one. Of course, I'd make sure to read all the guidelines and policies first. In the case of the OP, I wouldn't have bought that house, but most HOA's are beneficial (unless you collect junker cars or never take care of your property).


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## LOCODUDE (Aug 8, 2007)

Wow, that really sucks.... Best of luck dude....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Guess what. They can't do that anymore, and the contract they signed with comcast is null and void. The HOAs can not make you go with Cable, and they can not add that into the HOA fees anymore if you don't want comcast. In the last year the FCC passed new laws stating that no complex can enter into an exclusivity agreement with any single pay provider for video or telecommunications. The same law also made all current contracts null and void immediately. Your HOA and comcast may not like it, but you can put up your dish (your HOA can't stop you from doing that either) and keep your directv and avoid comcast. Check out the fcc website.


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## kycubsfan (Sep 1, 2007)

If it was "just TV" you wouldn't be here in the first place.

I'd find a way to break the HOA commitment or find another house.


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## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Guess what. They can't do that anymore, and the contract they signed with comcast is null and void. The HOAs can not make you go with Cable, and they can not add that into the HOA fees anymore if you don't want comcast. In the last year the FCC passed new laws stating that no complex can enter into an exclusivity agreement with any single pay provider for video or telecommunications. The same law also made all current contracts null and void immediately. Your HOA and comcast may not like it, but you can put up your dish (your HOA can't stop you from doing that either) and keep your directv and avoid comcast. Check out the fcc website.


From what I recall, this is entirely correct. The HOA can't enforce such a contract against its members.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Guess what. They can't do that anymore, and the contract they signed with comcast is null and void. The HOAs can not make you go with Cable, and they can not add that into the HOA fees anymore if you don't want comcast. In the last year the FCC passed new laws stating that no complex can enter into an exclusivity agreement with any single pay provider for video or telecommunications. The same law also made all current contracts null and void immediately. Your HOA and comcast may not like it, but you can put up your dish (your HOA can't stop you from doing that either) and keep your directv and avoid comcast. Check out the fcc website.


+1

I do lots of contract engineering for MDU's and the like, and those 'contracts' are null and void. PERIOD. if the HOA protests, get a lawyer for $5000/hour and bill the HOA. THAT will get their attention. They will back off at lightspeed.


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Guess what. They can't do that anymore, and the contract they signed with comcast is null and void. The HOAs can not make you go with Cable, and they can not add that into the HOA fees anymore if you don't want comcast. In the last year the FCC passed new laws stating that no complex can enter into an exclusivity agreement with any single pay provider for video or telecommunications. The same law also made all current contracts null and void immediately. Your HOA and comcast may not like it, but you can put up your dish (your HOA can't stop you from doing that either) and keep your directv and avoid comcast. Check out the fcc website.


I believe you are right. They can't force you to get cable and also I believe if your service costs less than comcast, this is another reason why you can change to a lower price provider.


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## mrg (Apr 30, 2008)

I would check with a lawyer or the HOA first. The FCC does not "pass laws". Only Congress can do that, as you may remember from high school civics class. Even if such contracts are not enforceable, i.e., you can get DirecTV and they cannot stop you, the HOA may still be able to make you pay the full HOA dues, regardless of how much of them consist of other liabilities for the HOA. The FCC cannot make private contracts "null and void". Only a court can issue judgement on such a dispute, which one might have to take to court personally to prevail.
Any HOA that has such high monthly dues is a liability on the property regardless of the TV issues. You are essentially buying a house with a $1800 yearly bill built in, which is clearly less desirable than one without it. I'm guessing this might be in Florida, where HOAs run by retireees with nothing better to do trample over people's constitutional rights on a daily basis.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/10/pa-residents-look-to-fcc-to-void-cable-contract/?news-pasco

"The FCC voted in October to prohibit large cable companies from entering into exclusive contracts to serve apartments and other residential developments. The ruling also voided existing contracts.

Now, the commission is considering expanding the rule to include private cable operators, such as Century, and to eliminate "bulk billing" contracts that require customers to pay for services even if they use a competitor. "


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

mrg said:


> I would check with a lawyer or the HOA first. The FCC does not "pass laws". Only Congress can do that, as you may remember from high school civics class.


While you are correct that the FCC does not "pass laws" the FCC is empowered by Congress to write regulations (known as "Orders") that have the force of law. However, in reviewing the FCC Order, I found that its scope appears to be limited to multiple dwelling unit rental properties only. It appears that the order does not include HOAs for properties that are purchased.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

They have more than one regulation that they have passed in the last 9 months on this subject. I do believe that they passed different ones for commercial, rental, and ownership properties....


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-189A1.pdf

Page 4 of document, #7:

For purposes of this Report and Order, we define the term "MDU" to include the kinds of
dwellings that we have defined as being MDUs in past decisions implementing the Act.13 That is,
MDUs include apartment, cooperative, and condominium buildings. *For purposes of this Report and
Order, we adopt this definition but expand it to include other centrally managed real estate
developments. Thus, the term MDUs, for purposes of this Report and Order, also includes gated
communities, mobile home parks, garden apartments, and other centrally managed residential real estate
developments.14 All of these are collections of private individual households with residents remaining
for lengthy, indefinite periods of time, each in a dwelling space that is distinctly separate but shares some
common spaces requiring central management. *For purposes of this proceeding, MDUs do not include
time share units, academic campuses and dormitories,15 military bases, hotels, rooming houses, jails,
prisons, halfway houses, hospitals, nursing and other assisted living places, and other group quarters
characterized by institutional living, high transience and, in some cases, a high need for security.


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## mrg (Apr 30, 2008)

I am guessing that the HOAs will scrap these contracts altogether, but the FCC order appears to only ban the exclusivity of the contracts, that is, contracts that prevent another cable co, say, or Verizon, from also providing service. It does not ban the HOA from bulk billing contracts with a cable company (just like it hires a garden service, whether you get value from the flowers or not). The FCC may have passed another order that addresses this, but they were still asking for comments on this issue in the same document:

_Such arrangements may not prohibit MDU residents from selecting a competitive video provider. However, because of the "bulk billing" nature of the contract, residents would have to continue paying a fee to the provider with the bulk billing contract as well as pay a subscription fee to the new service provider. We seek comment on whether these "bulk billing" arrangements are typically formalized as agreements between cable operators and MDUs or between MDUs and residents (or both)? Do these arrangements have the same practical effect as exclusive access arrangements in that most customers would be dissuaded from switching video providers?_

I would still talk to the HOA and find out what they are planning to do. Some of these boards are a real piece of work. One I know of tried to get a homeowner to remove his dish because they did not like where it was.  When he refused, one of the board members said, "let's just fine him and see if he takes us to court." The problem is, they can institute these fines and they pile up daily and are a lien on your property, until you go to court, and receive judgment. Meanwhile, you are also not watching TV!


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## pooch215 (May 14, 2008)

I ran into the same problem last year when i moved to a new apartment and had no line of sight. If you explain that you love being a directv customer but are hindered by the HOA, they should let you out of the contract with no penalty. I didn't pay any end of contract, and they also let me transfer my HR20, which was only 8 months old, to my father-in-law's account, so that we didn't lose the $300 we spent on it.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

No HOA can legally prevent you from putting up a dish. Period.


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## 996911 (Aug 24, 2006)

1948GG said:


> +1
> 
> I do lots of contract engineering for MDU's and the like, and those 'contracts' are null and void. PERIOD. if the HOA protests, get a lawyer for $5000/hour and bill the HOA. THAT will get their attention. They will back off at lightspeed.


Oh that's smart. Now he gets to absorb the cost of that in his HOA dues increases or cutbacks in other areas of the HOA budget. In the end, he will get screwed even further and once again the lawyer is the one that makes out.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Just an FYI, the HOA most likely did not sign this contract, the builder who built the neighborhood did and the people in the HOA just inherited it. More than likely the builder got a kickback or other consideration for the deal. 

You should have a freindly chat with some members of the board and other residents to see how they feel about it, It is likely that they all may not like it, especially if you can show them that it would be chaper for most people if they were on their own with Dish or DirecTV.

Not sure how big your neighborhood is or what kind of amenities you have, but I lived in a place that was 1100 homes, had a pool with clubhose, 5 tennis courts, a couple of playgrounds, 2 good sized ponds and 2 miles of street to maintain grass on, including irrigation and our dues were $30 a month.

For many people who do not have the max package, they can get DSL for around $35 a month and TV for around $50. Add all that to the $30/month dues and you are still way under $152.


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## mhaines1 (Feb 6, 2008)

For those of you who don't live around Northern VA those dues are pretty common here. They seem pretty high for a single family neighborhood but for a townhouse or condo they are about average. I have lived here for 10 years and have not heard of a neighborhood that has Comcast and forces everyone with it. Comcast is the main provider in Loudoun and Prince William Country while Cox is in Fairfax except the Reston area. I do know that out here in Loudoun County there are several communities that use a product called OpenBand that delivers fiber to the home that includes phone, TV and internet. It would seem really strange that a community would do this with Comcast. I would really check this out. My wife and I spent a year looking at houses all around Northern VA and never came across this. Even so I would fight it with the HOA. I hate HOAs...


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

SPACEMAKER said:


> No HOA can legally prevent you from putting up a dish. Period.


The OP never said that the HOA wouldn't let them install a dish. They said that they couldn't afford to have Directv and the cable that the HOA forces them to have.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> The OP never said that the HOA wouldn't let them install a dish. They said that they couldn't afford to have Directv and the cable that the HOA forces them to have.


Whew I was frantically reading to the bottom to see if anyone else had caught this. 150/month for HOA fees and then another 100+ for DirecTv would be excessive. I think the problem to OP is going to have is determining what portion of the 150/month goes to Comcast. The HOA could say that only $10 goes towards cable and the rest is maintenance and then he is still screwed.


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## tommy_mc (Oct 10, 2007)

mhaines1 said:


> For those of you who don't live around Northern VA those dues are pretty common here. They seem pretty high for a single family neighborhood but for a townhouse or condo they are about average. I have lived here for 10 years and have not heard of a neighborhood that has Comcast and forces everyone with it. Comcast is the main provider in Loudoun and Prince William Country while Cox is in Fairfax except the Reston area. I do know that out here in Loudoun County there are several communities that use a product called OpenBand that delivers fiber to the home that includes phone, TV and internet. It would seem really strange that a community would do this with Comcast. I would really check this out. My wife and I spent a year looking at houses all around Northern VA and never came across this. Even so I would fight it with the HOA. I hate HOAs...


Openband serves both the Broadlands and Landsdowne communities from what I know and the contract is good for something like 20 years. I know a lot of people have been upset about it and had hoped the FCC decision to break these exclusive contracts would rid them of their HOA requirement to purchase a triple play from Openband. You'll find some dishes in these neighborhoods, but only because people hate the Openband service so much or they really want NFL Sunday Ticket.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

jimb726 said:


> Whew I was frantically reading to the bottom to see if anyone else had caught this. 150/month for HOA fees and then another 100+ for DirecTv would be excessive. I think the problem to OP is going to have is determining what portion of the 150/month goes to Comcast. The HOA could say that only $10 goes towards cable and the rest is maintenance and then he is still screwed.


If that is the case, then the OP would _NOT _be able to use the HOA as an excuse to break his commitment with DirecTV, IMHO. What if the HOA had _NO _requiremnt to go with any one provider? He'd still have to pay over $250 in HOA dues and DirecTV. At that point, it all goes back to whether you think living in a HOA community is worth the expense and hassle.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Newshawk said:


> If that is the case, then the OP would _NOT _be able to use the HOA as an excuse to break his commitment with DirecTV, IMHO. What if the HOA had _NO _requiremnt to go with any one provider? He'd still have to pay over $250 in HOA dues and DirecTV. At that point, it all goes back to whether you think living in a HOA community is worth the expense and hassle.


No kidding, and I dont think there is any way to use the HOA as a reason to break the commitment. And he gets screwed twice because of his FIOS deal. That sucks for the OP.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

SPACEMAKER said:


> No HOA can legally prevent you from putting up a dish. Period.


Thanks, but that's not the issue.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

I had an HOA in Coral Springs. It included water and basic cable. and was $300 per month. I put my dish in anyways. They didnt make my dues cheaper, and they didnt say anything about my dish.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

All they have to do is change the wording in their HOA to state that it is $152 per month _and includes free Comcast cable._ So you pay the same amount whether you take cable or not. Depending on how many lawyers are on the board, you could be fighting this one until *your* lawyer is rich.

Why would you want to move into a new development and immediately become known as a troublemaker? And if you pushed the issue and WON, all your neighbors would probably get soaked with a higher fee for their cable since I'm sure to get exclusivity Comcast is offering a discount (like DirecTV does in order to get the same thing known as a programming commitment).

I'd just move somewhere else.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> All they have to do is change the wording in their HOA to state that it is $152 per month _and includes free Comcast cable._ So you pay the same amount whether you take cable or not. Depending on how many lawyers are on the board, you could be fighting this one until *your* lawyer is rich.
> 
> Why would you want to move into a new development and immediately become known as a troublemaker? And if you pushed the issue and WON, all your neighbors would probably get soaked with a higher fee for their cable since I'm sure to get exclusivity Comcast is offering a discount (like DirecTV does in order to get the same thing known as a programming commitment).
> 
> I'd just move somewhere else.


Wow. He never said or implied that he was trying to fight the HOA on the issue. Just the opposite, actually. He's trying to find advice on trying to get out of the ETF, but understands that he will probably have to suck it up and pay.

At least that's how I read the OP. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I don't think that HOAs will be allowed to just lump in payment for a cable service with HOA fees anymore because of the non exclusive rulings... It wouldn't be voiding the contracts if comcast was still recieveing monies from the HOA rather than from individual customers.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Ask D* to put your account on hold when you move so you can check out what options you have with the HOA. Tell them you want to stay with D* but you aren't sure if you will be able to or not. Maybe they can cut you some slack.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Sorry I haven't been back here to post, since I started this thread. Yes, here in Northern Virginia there are NO new neighborhoods that don't have HOA's (well if there are they are ones I can't afford). I am currently in Manassas and that's why I just got Verizon FIOS there. I used to have Comcast there 5 years ago before I switched to DirecTV and absolutely hated it. I had the same office where that lady went in with a hammer - so I can relate. 

Anyway, I am moving a little west of Manassas, but is probably the same sucky Comcast (it is still in the same county) as what serves Manassas. I doubt it has improved any since I left them 5 years ago (apparently not - that lady took the hammer to their office last year!). 

I've been busy with other things (work) so haven't had time to check this issue out more. The suggestion of putting DirecTV account on hold is a good one though - that's for sure. At least it delays the penalty payment for a year I guess - assuming that's how long you can hold it for. 

I'm assuming the HOA negotiated a good rate with Comcast, since they basically committed everyone in this neighbhorhood to it. They probably thought it was a good idea, and maybe those on the HOA had no experience with satellite TV, or things like FIOS, to compare it to. Although, Prince William County Comcast has a very bad reputation, at least the office that serves the Manassas part where I live now. When I had it, even the digital cable some of the channels had very poor signal quality. I never had their internet but had heard some bad stuff about it too. 

By the way, I did notice one satellite dish riding around the neighorhood, so there is someone there who chose to keep their satellite TV obviously, even though cable is included in the HOA bill.

Anyway, there are some good suggestions here. And probably the comment in one of the posts that the builder is the one who negotiated this, is correct, I bet. It would be worth talking to the HOA, and see if there is any movement on their part to eventually get rid of that, and let everyone who wants to stay with Comcast to just go the normal route. Although of course the Comcast stuff is already prewired into the house apparently for both the TV and the internet. Again, this is probably all the builder who negotiated this and not the HOA. This neighborhood is 3 years into a 5 year build - so a lot of people have been in there for 2 years now. 

This is the only thing I don't like about it, and otherwise it is preferable to other neighborhoods we've been looking at. 

Anyway, I didn't expect I'd get so much feedback, but certainly appreciate it, and sorry I didn't come back here sooner to clarify things. I do like the idea of suspending my DirecTV account, at least it delays paying the penalty fee for a year. Don't know if I can do the same with Verizon, but will have to see. If I had any idea I was going to be moving, I would never have gotten into the 2 year commitment with Verizon back in February.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

For the person asking who the builder is, it is Brookfield Homes (out in Gainesville). Yes, I agree with that person's comment - Comcast in Prince William County has a terrible reputation - the City of Manassas really gave them a hard time and made them commit to a bunch of stuff including improving customer service (although I doubt they will) when their franchise agreement with the city was renegotiated just recently (in the past few months). I

n fact, when I cancelled Comcast 5 years ago when I switched to DirecTV, I went down to the Manassas office and made sure my bill was zero'ed out and had all the equipment I was returning listed as returned, and months later they started trying to charge me $200 for some piece of equipment they claimed I hadn't returned. They were almost ready to turn my account over to a collection agency believe it or not - I got the Better Business Bureau involved and they finally straightened it out. So I really dread the thought of going back with them. 

However, everything else in this neighborhood I like, including the lot where the house would be - and can't find anything like it anywhere else in a comparable price range.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

I was reading some of the other posts about the HOA's and these contracts no longer being allowed due to FCC rulings. 

First thing is, there's definitely nothing that doesn't allow you to put up a dish - I did see one house with one in that neighborhood. 

I'm sure the argument that DirecTV will be cheaper won't work - probably the part of the HOA that is for the cable and internet is lower than what it would be for DirecTV and some other high speed internet like Verizon FIOS. 

Anyway, as has been said, it is worth talking with the HOA, and pointing out this FCC ruling, and see if they are in the process of reacting to it. 

HOA fees in this area are high - so $152/month including cable and internet isn't as high as it sounds. Most other neighborhoods we were looking at had fees in the $80/month range. So all things being equal - that is $72/month for cable and internet so doesn't seem so outlandish. 

I'm sure other areas have lower HOA fees, but this is Washington DC Metro area for those who didn't realize it. Everything here is expensive. 

Anyway as other's say - I can try pleading my case to DirecTV, which if I move forward on this and can't find any way of getting rid of the Comcast fees, I would certainly do as it doesn't hurt to try. But actually I really would rather stay with DirecTV, but I can't justify paying for Comcast AND DirecTV - that's a huge waste of money for me personally. I'm sure some people might be OK with that (and as I said I saw one dish in the neighbhorhood and there are undoubtedly others) - but for me personally I would consider it a waste of money doipg that. 

Again, I appreciate all the feedback,and there are some good ideas here which I will pursue. Haven't yet gone forward with this house, but probably will as otherwise I like everything else about this neighborhood, including the particular lot we are looking at.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

996911 said:


> Oh that's smart. Now he gets to absorb the cost of that in his HOA dues increases or cutbacks in other areas of the HOA budget. In the end, he will get screwed even further and once again the lawyer is the one that makes out.


Agreed, if you are living in the neighborhood - suing your HOA is not a smart idea, in the end unless you move out you are going to end up paying for the costs in increased HOA fees.

I do agree that talking with the HOA and finding out their thinking on this, in light of maybe the FCC ruling making these contracts unenforceable (and I'm no lawyer and haven't quite waded through some of that discussion above yet) is the best course. If maybe in a few months things are going to change anyway - it won't matter, as if we move forward the house won't be ready until late October at the earliest and more likely November or December.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Finally, as someone said, I get doubly screwed because of Verizon FIOS in addition to DirecTV. I don't know if Verizon has any plans to run FIOS into this neighorhood anytime soon, and I have more time left on my Verizon commitment than I do my DirecTV commitment. By the time the house would be built - I'd have a little under a year left on the DirecTV commitment, but still have a little less than 1 1/2 years left for Verizon. So may cost me more to get out of Verizon than DirecTV, for all I know. I was kind of stupid for signing up with Verizon FIOS internet back in February - but at that time I honestly wasn't thinking of moving anytime soon. But real estate prices in metro DC area have dropped greatly and this is a good time to make the jump from townhouse to single family home, while interest rates are low, too.


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## Milkman (Dec 6, 2006)

My guess is that if you move somewhere that doesn't have FIOS, and you can prove residency, they will let you out of your contract. Most EVERYONE does that. DirecTV is an exception because in theory you can get DirecTV wherever you have clear skies.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I was reading some of the other posts about the HOA's and these contracts no longer being allowed due to FCC rulings.
> 
> First thing is, there's definitely nothing that doesn't allow you to put up a dish - I did see one house with one in that neighborhood.
> 
> ...


Just install your DirecTV dish and be done with it. *There is nothing the HOA can do about it. Nothing*. The upside is that you will get to enjoy Comcast internet as well as some basic cable on any TV's that you don't have a DirecTV box.

Chances are that there are several others in that HOA that would love to get DirecTV but think they can't. You'll be a hero!


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Since you are 3 years into a 5 year build, more than likely, the builder still fully controls the HOA board. 

In the documents there will be a threshold, either percentage of lots or an actual number that trigger the turnover of the association to the homeowners. As that time approaches, a good builder will begin transition activities such as publicizing the transition date well ahead of time and the formation of a transition committee of homeowners so that they are ready to take over and elect a board.

Since the builder is in control, it is very likely that you will find many homeowners who are sympathetic to your points and will be willing to work with you. You can all run for the board and do what you want, depending on exactly how the contract is written of course.

Once you buy (and in good faith they should give it to you before) you are entitled to see copies of every contract they have, so ask for the COmcast stulff to see what you are in for.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

Lee L said:


> Since you are 3 years into a 5 year build, more than likely, the builder still fully controls the HOA board.
> 
> In the documents there will be a threshold, either percentage of lots or an actual number that trigger the turnover of the association to the homeowners. As that time approaches, a good builder will begin transition activities such as publicizing the transition date well ahead of time and the formation of a transition committee of homeowners so that they are ready to take over and elect a board.
> 
> ...


None of that matters.

The laws are very clear. *No HOA can prevent you from getting a dish*. Just install and be done. The HOA lawyers would be foolish to even consider taking action.

Why is this so difficult? It's an extremely simple issue. Actually it's not even an issue since federal law prevents HOA's from infringing on your choice of TV provider.

Has anyone read this? http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Lee L said:


> Since you are 3 years into a 5 year build, more than likely, the builder still fully controls the HOA board.
> 
> In the documents there will be a threshold, either percentage of lots or an actual number that trigger the turnover of the association to the homeowners. As that time approaches, a good builder will begin transition activities such as publicizing the transition date well ahead of time and the formation of a transition committee of homeowners so that they are ready to take over and elect a board.
> 
> ...


I agree with every point except the last, which is arguable. If by "once you buy" you mean "once you put in a contract," then I agree. At least in Maryland, you have to receive the bylaws before closing. Every home we put a contract in on that was in an HOA neighborhood had a stipulation in it that said that the homeowner had to provide us with a copy of the bylaws and other HOA rules before closing. Technically by purchasing the home you are entering into a contract with the HOA, so it stands to reason that you get to see the contract before agreeing to it.

If you're not interested in getting on the board, most HOA rules can also be changed with a certain number of signatures from homeowners, sort of like a referendum. You can just go door to door and collect them, if the neighborhood isn't that large - of course this is after you purchase.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

SPACEMAKER said:


> None of that matters.
> 
> The laws are very clear. *No HOA can prevent you from getting a dish*. Just install and be done. The HOA lawyers would be foolish to even consider taking action.
> 
> ...


SPACEMAKER, relax. Read the OPs comments again.

This is not the issue, as he has now stated at least twice. He just doesn't want to pay for cable AND satellite.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> SPACEMAKER, relax. Read the OPs comments again.
> 
> This is not the issue, as he has now stated at least twice. He just doesn't want to pay for cable AND satellite.


Understood.

But he needs internet service. Why not use the Comcast that's already there? That is a $60 value.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Lee L said:


> Since you are 3 years into a 5 year build, more than likely, the builder still fully controls the HOA board.
> 
> In the documents there will be a threshold, either percentage of lots or an actual number that trigger the turnover of the association to the homeowners. As that time approaches, a good builder will begin transition activities such as publicizing the transition date well ahead of time and the formation of a transition committee of homeowners so that they are ready to take over and elect a board.
> 
> ...


Yes, we are going to be provided with the HOA book when we sign a contract to buy - as you said that is one of the things they must do, and told me they would do - so then I can see specifically what the agreement with Comcast entails. That is a good point about the builder still probably in control of the HOA though. There still is a lot of lots available here, and a lot of the roads are still not yet paved - well I guess the development is probably 60% along given that it is 3 years in toward a 5 year buildout, at least that's what the builder told me and it seems to be true.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Milkman said:


> My guess is that if you move somewhere that doesn't have FIOS, and you can prove residency, they will let you out of your contract. Most EVERYONE does that. DirecTV is an exception because in theory you can get DirecTV wherever you have clear skies.


Good point about the difference between FIOS and DirecTV. Seems like I have a better case for getting out of my FIOS contract, since I'm sure Verizon hasn't laid fiber in this neighborhood (at least checking the address of the sales office it says FIOS is not available there at present). I can see how DirecTV makes the case that anywhere you move, you can get their service - with FIOS that obviously isn't true.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

if you really dont want to pay for your early cancellation fee, suspend the account every 6 months untill your commitment is over. I've heard of people doing that.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

If the ETF is the only issue just have the seller pay for it at closing in the form of a misc. buyer credit. In today's market no seller would be silly enough to refuse something like that.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

turey22 said:


> if you really dont want to pay for your early cancellation fee, suspend the account every 6 months untill your commitment is over. I've heard of people doing that.


Account suspension does not count towards your commitment and I am pretty sure you can only suspend twice a year for a total of 6 months? I think thats what I remember.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

I had the same thing in my last community. The HOA had a contract with the cable company for service. We paid $14.00 a month for the basic cable channels. I just took the service and wired it to my secondary TVs, and used my DirecTV on my main TV. By doing this I prevented the $5.00 a month for the 3 extra DirecTV boxes, coming out $1.00 ahead every month. 

After my first house loosing value, on resale, because of the neighborhood being so trashy, I will never live in another community without a HOA. They can at times be a pain, but having one that requires properties to be maintained, keeps the property values up, when it comes to resale.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

jimb726 said:


> Account suspension does not count towards your commitment and I am pretty sure you can only suspend twice a year for a total of 6 months? I think thats what I remember.


last thing i heard was that it did, you can suspend twice a year, once every 6 months. maybe i am wrong but i will need to research that.


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## Tiger62 (Mar 18, 2008)

turey22 said:


> last thing i heard was that it did, you can suspend twice a year, once every 6 months. maybe i am wrong but i will need to research that.


It makes absolutely no sense at all that your suspended time would count toward your commitment! No one would EVER pay the ETF!


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> Although of course the Comcast stuff is already prewired into the house apparently for both the TV and the internet.


You can use this wiring for D*.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Tiger62 said:


> It makes absolutely no sense at all that your suspended time would count toward your commitment! No one would EVER pay the ETF!


Agreed, all I can see the benefit is, is that it will postpone me having to pay the penalty fee for 6 months, which wouldn't be a bad thing in and of itself. At least I wouldn't be paying that at the same time I'm closing on the house - as I don't need another $300 or so (I'm just guessing) in expenses at that point in time. So the idea of suspending for 6 months and then cancelling (and maybe by then I won't have to cancel anyway if the HOA drops Comcast out of their fee by that point in time by some stroke of luck), that's a good thing.

I definitely don't expect though that suspending your account - the "clock keeps ticking" and counts towards your commitment time - that doesn't at all make sense. It doesn't make any sense from a business point of view (for DirecTV).

But delaying it 6 months, is a good idea for sure - and I might get lucky and things would be different by then. I also hate the fact that I paid $399 for my HR20, and $199 for my HR21, so have a lot of money invested in them - even though they aren't mine technically. Hopefully the 6 months will buy time to get the HOA to agree to take out the Comcast part of their fee. Even basic cable is not cheap - I'll bet it has to account for $60 or so of the fee, unless it was a very limited cable offering for that price, but a highly doubt it. This isn't a low-end neighborhood I'm moving in there, no one would be wanting to take a very basic cable package that only included a very few channels. If so, those kind of people wouldn't at all be interested in high speed internet either.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

beavis said:


> Just one of the 3,000 reasons I would never move anywhere with an HOA. The only way you could get out of your D* contract would be if the tech determined there was no line of site to the sats. Otherwise, you're pretty much SOL.
> 
> FYI, most HD upgrades carry a 2 year commit, not 1. You should call D* and ask about that.


Just to clarify, what I meant was I got the HR21 last September - the house in the new neighborhood wouldn't be ready until this October at the earliest - so at that point I'd have 1 year left on the 2 year commitment. I probably didn't say that clearly in my original post.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

mx6bfast said:


> You can use this wiring for D*.


Yes, that's true - but again the main thing is if the HOA fee includes Comcast, I don't want to be paying for both Comcast and DirecTV. Also, if I'm going to use Comcast for high speed internet (which I probably would since FIOS isn't yet available there from what I can see - but probably will be at some point in the near future as it is available nearby) - that would put that existing wiring in use and new cables would have to be run for DirecTV. This is all assuming that at some point, I can get the HOA to drop the cable fee out of their monthly fee.

Again, even if the cable fee is for very basic cable, from my point of view I don't want to pay for duplication of services. Basic cable out here isn't cheap - I'm sure it is $60/month - so makes no sense to pay that on top of DirecTV costs. I don't get DirecTV for the sports - I get it because I hated Comcast back when I had it - the signal quality was poor then even with their "digital service". It might be different out where I'm moving to, as perhaps this is a newer system - the system in place where I was - originally wasn't Comcast (it was Cablevision, then changed to Jones Communications, and then became Comcast about 10 years ago).


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

you all are making a good point but i am a 100 percent sure that if you were to suspend the account today the 6 months would go toward your commitment, why dont you call and ask? well maybe i am wrong


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

turey22 said:


> you all are making a good point but i am a 100 percent sure that if you were to suspend the account today the 6 months would go toward your commitment, why dont you call and ask? well maybe i am wrong


What's your source for this 100% certainty?

http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1588403&postcount=5 <--- he should know


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

okay i was wrong i just called in and they told me that they just changed there policy on that. so sorry i was wrong.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

turey22 said:


> okay i was wrong i just called in and they told me that they just changed there policy on that. so sorry i was wrong.


probably because too many people had figured out that loophole as a way of getting out of their commitments! Surprised they allowed it for as long as they evidently did.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

You should probably attempt to find out what level of Comcast service is included in your HOA fee and how much additional it is going to cost you to get the level of service that you want (assuming that you want any premium channels or advanced equipment). You may end up finding out that the additional cost is as much as you would be paying for DirecTV anyway.

For example, I currently have 3 HD DVR's for which I only pay the single $5.99 DVR fee. Cablevision currently charges a $9.99 DVR fee for each DVR. So, having 3 DVR's from Cablevision would cost me $24 more.

It may be that, once you add everything up, it may not cost any more to continue with DirecTV than it will to convert to Comcast (even with the HOA fee).


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Bill Broderick said:


> You should probably attempt to find out what level of Comcast service is included in your HOA fee and how much additional it is going to cost you to get the level of service that you want (assuming that you want any premium channels or advanced equipment). You may end up finding out that the additional cost is as much as you would be paying for DirecTV anyway.


Yes, you may be correct about that, and will have to wait and see. If indeed only some very basic Comcast service is included in the HOA fee, then it might somehow work out that sticking with DirecTV is cheaper than upgrading Comcast to HD DVR's. I just have an HR20 and an HR21 on my DirecTV account - as far as equipment goes. I suppose in the new house may eventually want a 3rd TV, but that won't be on the horizon for awhile after we move in. For now the TV in the family room and one in the master bedroom will be sufficient.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And I still don't see how any HOA could force you to pay for comcast after the FCC rules. It just doesn't make sense. I'd look into that big time. Also, as someone else points out, what kind of service is it from comcast? If its only basic and High speed, then it probably would be cheaper to simply pay that fee and keep directv as well, because their costs sky rocket if you want to actually watch something other than basic and use a DVR...


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> And I still don't see how any HOA could force you to pay for comcast after the FCC rules. It just doesn't make sense. I'd look into that big time. Also, as someone else points out, what kind of service is it from comcast? If its only basic and High speed, then it probably would be cheaper to simply pay that fee and keep directv as well, because their costs sky rocket if you want to actually watch something other than basic and use a DVR...


Yes, will definitely check it out. I can't really decipher all the "legalese" with the FCC ruling as I'm no lawyer. Anyway, if indeed it is just very basic cable, it may be true to add high def DVR's to it, might make it just as expensive as sticking with DirecTV. If so that's a good thing in a way, as I do prefer DirecTV. Although that still means the HOA fee is awfully expensive. But when I switched to DirecTV it was cheaper than an equivalent Comcast setup at the time, and this was before high def, and without any DVR's (well I had a standalone Tivo that I was using as my DVR at the time I switched from Comcast to DirecTV.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I would also urge you to demand full copies of all the legal documents, contracts, covenants and restrictions now, before you move. Surely the builder wants you to make an dinformed decision. Heck, it is probably not legal to keep this from you.


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

WashDCHR20 said:



> Yes, will definitely check it out. I can't really decipher all the "legalese" with the FCC ruling as I'm no lawyer. Anyway, if indeed it is just very basic cable, it may be true to add high def DVR's to it, might make it just as expensive as sticking with DirecTV. If so that's a good thing in a way, as I do prefer DirecTV. Although that still means the HOA fee is awfully expensive. But when I switched to DirecTV it was cheaper than an equivalent Comcast setup at the time, and this was before high def, and without any DVR's (well I had a standalone Tivo that I was using as my DVR at the time I switched from Comcast to DirecTV.


I was the one who asked about the builder. After reading all the posts I feel your best position now is to get a copy of the HOA immediately, prior to siging a buyers offer and read, then use the PW supervisors offices to interpret if you are forced to use Comcast. Brookfield has its own problems and agendas as well as many of the other builders in this area. If Brookfield refuses to give you a copy of the HOA before you sign a contract, run as fast as you can from them.

Many people don't realize how much pull the county supervisors office have in getting issues resolved in favor of residents when it comes to utilities like Comcast and such. Which is why Verizon was granted the rights to install in PWC.

By the way, that HOA fee is excessive unless it includes everything but the kitchen sink.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Lee L said:


> I would also urge you to demand full copies of all the legal documents, contracts, covenants and restrictions now, before you move. Surely the builder wants you to make an dinformed decision. Heck, it is probably not legal to keep this from you.


Lee - you are correct. Yesterday I did get the HOA book, which is a huge thick document, and still have not made a commitment on the house. I started looking through it late last night, and it shows the current HOA budget and their costs, etc. I still have not yet found any reference to the cable/internet agreement. It is in there somewhere I'm sure. I only had about 15 or 20 minutes last night to skim through it quickly - it's a good 100 pages or more! So may know more in a couple of days once I have time to look through it thoroughly. I was out there yesterday and specifically asked for it, and all I had to do was sign for it that I had received a copy. It does definitely look though as you say, the builder is still in control of the HOA - I saw references to that - so you were correct in that aspect.

Thanks again for all your input regarding HOA rules - as you have direct knowledge being involved in one. I do have an HOA in my current townhouse development, but all they do is mantain the common areas, handle the snow removal, and of course do come around yearly for inspections to make sure properties are kept up. As we don't have a swimming pool as part of our community since it borders on a park with a swimming pool complex, our HOA fees are very low ($110 per quarter). In fact, they are a bargain as far as HOA fees in the Northern Virginia area. Then again when I first moved in to this neighborhood when it was new in 1985 - the HOA fees were $24/quarter believe it or not!


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

smokes20 said:


> I was the one who asked about the builder. After reading all the posts I feel your best position now is to get a copy of the HOA immediately, prior to siging a buyers offer and read, then use the PW supervisors offices to interpret if you are forced to use Comcast. Brookfield has its own problems and agendas as well as many of the other builders in this area. If Brookfield refuses to give you a copy of the HOA before you sign a contract, run as fast as you can from them.
> 
> Many people don't realize how much pull the county supervisors office have in getting issues resolved in favor of residents when it comes to utilities like Comcast and such. Which is why Verizon was granted the rights to install in PWC.
> 
> By the way, that HOA fee is excessive unless it includes everything but the kitchen sink.


Well, I can only compare it to 3 other people I know who have bought into new neighborhoods (but in Loudon County) and actually their HOA fees for single family homes are over $100/month. And those are builders other than Brookfields (one is Ryan for example, another is Winchester Homes). So from what I'm seeing for a new development, at least in the cases I know, it is not that far out there. Those don't have cable/internet bundled into the fee, and are only abuot $50 a month less.

Anyway, as I said I did get a copy of the HOA book. The builder is still in control of it - I've been able to figure that much out so far. I will be investigating it further, as haven't yet made a commitment to buy - just temporarily have reserved the lot because it was a highly desirable one (woods on both the left side and behind my house and it is on a dead end circle so no through traffic), but can "walk away" and get my $1K deposit back.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

smokes20 said:


> After reading all the posts I feel your best position now is to get a copy of the HOA immediately, prior to siging a buyers offer and read, then use the PW supervisors offices to interpret if you are forced to use Comcast.


I just sent an e-mail to the Gainesville supervisor's office - explaining this situation and wanting to know if indeed it is allowable for the HOA to bundle in a cable TV and high speed internet deal into their monthly fee. I will let you know what response I get. I explained the situation to them regarding my DirecTV contract, and also pointed out quite frankly, my experience 5 years ago with Comcast in Manassas was abysmal, to put it mildly! But, I hate wasting money, and can't make a case for my paying for some form of Comcast cable I'm not using, and then keeping my DirecTV service. There is nothing to stop me from doing that of course - but to me it is a waste of money and I figure the Comcast service has to at least cost $50/month, if not more. Paying $600/year at least for something I'm not using, is a huge waste of money!

Well, we'll see what kind of response I get. Maybe by the time the house would be ready (if I move forward on it) which is October at the earliest and December at the latest, this whole thing can be resolved.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I just sent an e-mail to the Gainesville supervisor's office - explaining this situation and wanting to know if indeed it is allowable for the HOA to bundle in a cable TV and high speed internet deal into their monthly fee. I will let you know what response I get. I explained the situation to them regarding my DirecTV contract, and also pointed out quite frankly, my experience 5 years ago with Comcast in Manassas was abysmal, to put it mildly! But, I hate wasting money, and can't make a case for my paying for some form of Comcast cable I'm not using, and then keeping my DirecTV service. There is nothing to stop me from doing that of course - but to me it is a waste of money and I figure the Comcast service has to at least cost $50/month, if not more. Paying $600/year at least for something I'm not using, is a huge waste of money!
> 
> Well, we'll see what kind of response I get. Maybe by the time the house would be ready (if I move forward on it) which is October at the earliest and December at the latest, this whole thing can be resolved.


Did you mention the new FCC rules in your email about exclusivity contracts?


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Did you mention the new FCC rules in your email about exclusivity contracts?


Yes, I did mention in the e-mail to the County Supervisor that it appears the FCC recently enacted rules forbidding exclusivity contracts to cable companies.

As an aside, I went back to the new neighborhood and noticed 10 or 15 houses with satellite dishes. So either there are people there who don't mind paying for satellite TV on top of cable, or else perhaps they have found some way to not pay the Comcast part of the HOA fee.

Anyway, still investigating, and haven't had time to go through the HOA book any further. It is a lot of reading and no table of contents, and looks to be not the most exciting reading either. There's a good 20 pages of budget items and their expenses and income. Then it appears to get into the covenants and things like that. At least at a quick glance, have not yet been able to find any reference to cable TV or high speed internet in there, or any breakdown of what part of the monthly fee goes to cable TV and internet.


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## bjflynn04 (Jul 27, 2004)

In case any one wants it the local NBC station in Raleigh ran a story tonight on the best way to challenge HOA rules.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-05-21-0001.html


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

What amazes me is that people move into a community with a HOA and then ***** about it. If you don't want to deal with a HOA why do you move into a community with one, in the first place?

Secondly, if you feel your HOA rules are to strict or illegal, *GET INVOLVED* and work to change the them. If the rule is that bad or illegal, you should have no problem getting a majority support to change it.

That is what I did when I moved here. At that time our HOA rules stated that the HOA ARC committee had to approve any satellite antenna and that outdoor OTA antennas were not allowed. After showing the Board that it was against the FCC ruling for satellite dishes and antennas, they campaigned to correct the wording, to comply with the FCC ruling. Many times all you need to do is show proof that a ruling or covenant is wrong and it gets corrected. And yes, there are the condo commandos that will deny or refuse to listen to anything unless they suggest it, but those are the ones you need work to get off the board and replace with people that want to do the right thing.

:soapbox: Sorry for being harsh, but broken HOA's can be fixed, by people that want to *Get Involved*.:soapbox:

Ok I am :backtotop .


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

loudo said:


> What amazes me is that people move into a community with a HOA and then ***** about it. If you don't want to deal with a HOA why do you move into a community with one, in the first place?
> 
> Secondly, if you feel your HOA rules are to strict or illegal, *GET INVOLVED* and work to change the them. If the rule is that bad or illegal, you should have no problem getting a majority support to change it.
> 
> ...


I don't think the OP is complaining about it, just trying to find some resolution. I think he's gone about it in a polite way that has produced some meaningful discourse on the subject. I do agree with you though, that people need to get involved in their HOAs if they want to change something. It's like the people that complain about their government but don't vote and don't get involved in the process. HOA government can usually be lumped into one of two categories: 1) people who are gung-ho about it and want to rule everything and everyone and 2) people who are stuck in their positions because no one else will volunteer and it creates overworked, underappreciated staff who get the short end of the stick.

I think most fall into the second category (at least around here) and they just need more participation from the community.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't think the OP is complaining about it, just trying to find some resolution. I think he's gone about it in a polite way that has produced some meaningful discourse on the subject. I do agree with you though, that people need to get involved in their HOAs if they want to change something. It's like the people that complain about their government but don't vote and don't get involved in the process. HOA government can usually be lumped into one of two categories: 1) people who are gung-ho about it and want to rule everything and everyone and 2) people who are stuck in their positions because no one else will volunteer and it creates overworked, underappreciated staff who get the short end of the stick.
> 
> I think most fall into the second category (at least around here) and they just need more participation from the community.


Thanks tcusta00! You are right, I'm the OP and as you said I wasn't complaining about it, I was in advance to moving in (or signing a contract to buy) exploring ways to resolve this favorably, and more or less posing the question. So you read my intent correctly, and I appreciate your post! I actually agree with everything you say regarding HOA's (the 2 categories). My current HOA in my townhouse development built in 1985, falls into category 2 you mention above! Then again, I'm not on the HOA board, but for one thing I travel a lot on business, and often aren't even in town for the monthly meetings. Then again, I've not really had any any issues with the HOA where I am now, but know they are kind of hurting for board members.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

I had more time to go through the HOA book. All I could find was the reference to 2007 dues ($132/month - "includes cable TV and high speed internet"). Could not find a breakdown of the dues. Lots of budget info, but just costs for things like grounds maintenance, snow removal, etc. etc. etc. Also of course lots of rules and drawings for placement of fences, decks and so on. 

So the HOA book didn't help me determine what portion of the fees are related to Comcast. I am a bit surprised in the jump from $132/month to $152/month in single year, that's a 13% increase which seems a bit steep. Then again Comcast likes to hike their rates a lot from year to year (when I had them often there was a 10% increase), so I wonder if a good percentage of that $20/month increase wasn't due to Comcast being bundled in. 

I'm going to have to talk to the builder, or one of their representatives who sits on the HOA board (which it has names and addresses for but no phone numbers) to see if I can get a dollar amount for what the Comcast fee is. 

Will be meeting with the builder on Saturday to discuss some things as I'm still also bargaining a bit on the price with them, so will try to get them to put me in contact with the HOA as I've already told them my concerns about Comcast being bundled in and my DirecTV contract buyout. I have a feeling, if I find Comcast only acounts for $50 or so of the fee, I will just keep DirecTV as much as I hate the thought of duplication of services, until such time as hopefully the Comcast bundling in goes away.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

If they are jacking their fees that much this quickly, definitely do some checking. ASk for budgets and projections for future, including Capital Reserve fund. Also, is the builder putting large chunks into the HOA now? They should be paying whatever the dues are per month for each lot they still own. If they are paying more than that, you will be in for trouble later when they leave. If they are not paying enough, they may be shorting the association.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

WashDCHR20 said:


> ...as I'm still also bargaining a bit on the price with them, ...


And therein lies your opportunity to offset both the DirecTV early termination fee and/or a few years of HOA fees or a portion thereof. Let's see, $50 a month for a year is $600. Knock the price down $6000 and you have ten year offset of that portion of the HOA fee.

Carl


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't think the OP is complaining about it, just trying to find some resolution. I think he's gone about it in a polite way that has produced some meaningful discourse on the subject. I do agree with you though, that people need to get involved in their HOAs if they want to change something. It's like the people that complain about their government but don't vote and don't get involved in the process. HOA government can usually be lumped into one of two categories: 1) people who are gung-ho about it and want to rule everything and everyone and 2) people who are stuck in their positions because no one else will volunteer and it creates overworked, underappreciated staff who get the short end of the stick.
> 
> I think most fall into the second category (at least around here) and they just need more participation from the community.


I wasn't referring the OP or anyone in particular, it was just a general statement. Over the years I have seen many people complaining about HOAs, when they could easily get the problem they are complaining about corrected, by getting involved.

A good cure for any HOA, if they want to continue with getting deals on cable, is to go back to the cable company and negotiate a deal with them for anyone who *wants* cable to go through the HOA and get a special rate. Where I used to live they have done that and any resident who wants basic cable can get it through the HOA deal for $24.00 a month, as opposed to $54.00 from the cable company. And it is an option outside of the monthly maintenance fee. You do have to sign up for a year at a time though, and pay the years cable fee in advance. But for those that want cable, it saves them $30.00 a month.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Lee L said:


> If they are jacking their fees that much this quickly, definitely do some checking. ASk for budgets and projections for future, including Capital Reserve fund. Also, is the builder putting large chunks into the HOA now? They should be paying whatever the dues are per month for each lot they still own. If they are paying more than that, you will be in for trouble later when they leave. If they are not paying enough, they may be shorting the association.


Thanks Lee L. The HOA book I have does seem to have a lot of that information in there - at least a great deal of detail on the budgets. I just haven't had time to work through all the numbers. I know that info is there (other than maybe for projections for the future - although I'm sure I saw money budgeted to the capital reserve fund).

Good point about how much they are paying for the lots they still own right now - hadn't thought about if their contribution is higher and what that would do to the budget as lots get bought. So glad you brought that up - will definitely look and see as I think the info is there to some degree. Although it might just be showing a lump sum of income from the builder, and then I'd have to guestimate on how many lots that represented last year. Seems like I have last year's budget and info (at least where it shows $132 as the monthly fee since the builder told me it was $152).


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

carl6 said:


> And therein lies your opportunity to offset both the DirecTV early termination fee and/or a few years of HOA fees or a portion thereof. Let's see, $50 a month for a year is $600. Knock the price down $6000 and you have ten year offset of that portion of the HOA fee.
> 
> Carl


Yes, Carl, you are exactly right! That's exactly what I was alluding to when I referred to that I was negotiating. I am using that as an argument to lowering the price. I made a proposal, and they made a counterproposal, that's not all that bad, but I'm hoping to get them to meet somewhere in the middle and that would make me happy, and I figure wipe out the cost of Comcast to me. And we are talking around $6000 probably - as a coincidence, that's a figure that's about in the middle between what I asked for, and what they did - and the range between me and them is only roughly $3000. So gives you an idea that I was thinking along the same lines.... Of course the icing on the cake would be if a year after I move in, they get convinced to take Comcast out of the dues - or even right after I sign the contract to buy the house! Although haven't heard anything back yet from Prince William County as to the e-mail I wrote them about this.

So I'm working it from several angles, but definitely using it to get concessions from the builder as to the price!


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

I started looking at the HOA book some more and noticed a few things:

1. What I got was a draft of the "muti-year budget" dated Feb. 24, 2005! 

2. At that time the dues were $132/month. I don't know how I thought I saw 2007 in there and thought that was last year's assessment. The current assessment is $152/month according to the builder. 

3.The builder pays $125/month until a unit is sold, and at time of closing pays an extra 3 months fee. 

Still can't find any further breakdown of the assessments. It does resolve one concern Lee L brought up - about the builder possibly paying more than the owners. Then again, the builder isn't paying for Comcast in unbuilt properties, so maybe there still is a concern since all $125/month they are paying is going to something else. It does say the $132/month includes cable. In fact this is in a chart that compares it to adjacent neighborhoods, which ALSO include cable and high speed internet, and are different builders. Theirs are even higher, but they are bordering some fancy recreation facility and apparently has that bundled in too - so their fees are $245 and $275 per month - and this was back in 2005! Those are fancier neighborhoods though - maybe they can afford that kind of monthly fee! 

Anyway, all I've learned is this is not the only neighborhood in that area with cable and internet bundled in, but still have not learned how much of the fee that is. At least I did learn the fee has only gone from $132 to $152 in 3 years, NOT one!


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

I found the cable fee finally!! As of February 2005 this is what it was:

Internet/Cable Television - Basic internet/cable television service will be provided on a mandatory basis to all units at an initial monthly fee of $68.10.

The monthly dues were $132.50 then, so that is just about half of the HOA fee. 

It was buried deep in the middle of this document, which is more than 100 pages long (the pages aren't numbered as it is a bunch of individual documents in this book) so i can see how I missed it!


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

At that rate it's definitely not the HD DVR package etc. I wonder how things work if you want a greater package with HD, Dvr, Premium channels etc.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

evan_s said:


> At that rate it's definitely not the HD DVR package etc. I wonder how things work if you want a greater package with HD, Dvr, Premium channels etc.


Yes, you are quite right. Since it is bundled with the HOA dues, how does it work for extra items? Maybe then you pay Comcast directly for extra equipment. I may just look at it as expensive high speed internet service, since out there no other high speed internet service appears to be available just yet (but Verizon FIOS is running cable in areas near there and heavily throughout Prince William County so it could be coming soon). I would rather have FIOS, which is what I have now, or even Verizon DSL which is what I used to have.


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I found the cable fee finally!! As of February 2005 this is what it was:
> 
> Internet/Cable Television - Basic internet/cable television service will be provided on a mandatory basis to all units at an initial monthly fee of $68.10.
> 
> ...


If memory serves me, Verizon had not yet been granted approval to provide services to PWC back in 2005. I think it was late 2006. In 2005 Comcast was the only provider for cable tv to the Manassas area. Interested in how the county and courts view the "mandatory" usage dictated by the HOA/Brookfield builders at this date.

As far as the charts are concerned, they are seriously outdated. You need to get copies of the most recent budget approved for 2008. Unless they too are buried in the 100 pages you already have.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I may just look at it as expensive high speed internet service, since out there no other high speed internet service appears to be available just yet


If it will make you feel better, that is cheaper and much better than what I get with Wildblue.


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I can see how DirecTV makes the case that anywhere you move, you can get their service - with FIOS that obviously isn't true.


I asked D* if I could get out of my contract if I moved to an area that didn't allow me to set up a dish and the csr told me I could. This was probably five years ago.

I disagree that everywhere you move you can receive D* service. Some people can't set up dishes because they don't have a good line of sight, whether it be an apartment or a house in the woods.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I found the cable fee finally!! As of February 2005 this is what it was:
> 
> Internet/Cable Television - Basic internet/cable television service will be provided on a mandatory basis to all units at an initial monthly fee of $68.10.
> 
> ...


And with that, that contract is void due to FCC rules... You shouldn't have any problem pointing that out, and I would bet that the all the price increase is due to a rise in Comcast pricing.

By the way, since it sounds like your house is still be built, I'd make sure and have them run at least 2 lines to ever place you'll have a tv... Its easy to do now!!!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ajc68 said:


> I asked D* if I could get out of my contract if I moved to an area that didn't allow me to set up a dish and the csr told me I could. This was probably five years ago.
> 
> I disagree that everywhere you move you can receive D* service. Some people can't set up dishes because they don't have a good line of sight, whether it be an apartment or a house in the woods.


Directv will always tell you that you can put up a dish, because you can. Not have LOS is an entirely different issue.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

smokes20 said:


> If memory serves me, Verizon had not yet been granted approval to provide services to PWC back in 2005. I think it was late 2006. In 2005 Comcast was the only provider for cable tv to the Manassas area. Interested in how the county and courts view the "mandatory" usage dictated by the HOA/Brookfield builders at this date.


Yes, now that Verizon is in PWC with FIOS - I wonder how they can get away with this "mandatory" usage statement. I don't like anyone telling me I must use Comcast, that's for sure. There's some people who could probably care less about high speed internet for that matter, and they are ramming that down everyone's throats too. Does seem pretty unfair - that they thought they could do such a thing. Again, as you point out, things were indeed different in PWC back in 2005 - Comcast was the only game in town for TV other than going satellite. For internet, unless you were like me and lived close enough to get DSL from Verizon, there wasn't a lot of other high speed internet choices than Comcast, either.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

ajc68 said:


> I asked D* if I could get out of my contract if I moved to an area that didn't allow me to set up a dish and the csr told me I could. This was probably five years ago.
> 
> I disagree that everywhere you move you can receive D* service. Some people can't set up dishes because they don't have a good line of sight, whether it be an apartment or a house in the woods.


OK, yes I forget that some people have line of sight issues. Anyway, I didn't think DirecTV would let you out of the contract in the situation I may be in, or in a situation like yours where dishes weren't allowed. It would be too easy for everyone who wanted out of contracts to say that, unless they had you submit proof and not sure how easy that would be for both the customer and for DirecTV to have to review all that kind of stuff.

From a business point of view, I understand DirecTV needing to enforce their contracts, and it would get to be a nightmare for them to start having to figure out who "deserves" to be let out of contracts for these kinds of situations.

In any event, I'd rather not leave DirecTV, I like my HR20 and HR21 DVR's and don't want to find out how bad Comcast's must be.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> And with that, that contract is void due to FCC rules... You shouldn't have any problem pointing that out, and I would bet that the all the price increase is due to a rise in Comcast pricing.
> 
> By the way, since it sounds like your house is still be built, I'd make sure and have them run at least 2 lines to ever place you'll have a tv... Its easy to do now!!!


Yes, if I go ahead with this house, definitely plan to make sure all rooms are wired for TV with 2 lines as you point out, although for now I don't expect to get a 3rd HD DVR for a long time (or a 3rd high def TV for that matter!) - it is good to allow for that in the future. When the house is being built, it definitely makes sense to do that as it is easy for them to do.


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

WashDCHR20 said:


> Yes, now that Verizon is in PWC with FIOS - I wonder how they can get away with this "mandatory" usage statement. I don't like anyone telling me I must use Comcast, that's for sure. There's some people who could probably care less about high speed internet for that matter, and they are ramming that down everyone's throats too. Does seem pretty unfair - that they thought they could do such a thing. Again, as you point out, things were indeed different in PWC back in 2005 - Comcast was the only game in town for TV other than going satellite. For internet, unless you were like me and lived close enough to get DSL from Verizon, there wasn't a lot of other high speed internet choices than Comcast, either.


Given the fact that your HOA papers are dated from 2005 and certainly not current by any means, I doubt that the current owners care or know the FCC rulings regarding this issue. Brookfield isn't being honest with potential buyers either by giving outdated papers to review prior to the sale. Which by the way, is a law in Va. It would appear to me that Brookfield is getting some type of kickback too from Comcast. But that is another subject.

Getting an honest, straight forward answer from Brookfield this weekend would be a deal breaker for me. If Brookfield isn't being honest now, what makes me think they would be in the future after the home has been built and problems arise as they do in every new built home. Getting a builder, especially Brookfield or Toll Brothers to repair after the home is sold is a long process. Getting the repairs completed satisfactory at best is a challenge for the home owner.

I don't mean to seem as a damper to your home purchase, but too many red flags for me, especially since our area has far too many choices of new homes and builders as well as existing homes that don't have these issues. By the by, you should check out Brookfield to make sure they have the existing funds to complete the building project in the development you are looking at. Many builders have money tied to undeveloped property they can't get rid of and many acres are now in foreclosure for these builders. NRV/Ryan are the only builders who don't have this problem and are making a profit. And no, I don't work or own stock in any home builder company. Just have many friends in the know.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Here are a couple of interesting web sites in reference to this issue:

This one talk about the FCC ruling:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6495955.html?q=&q=&q=cable+deal+in+condo

This one is a discussion forum about bulk Billings and the effort to band them:
http://www.banbulkbilling.com/


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Just an update, I got more or less a non-answer on this subject from the Prince William County Board of Supervisors from a staff member who apparently reports to Corey Stewart. Anyway, here's what he wrote - but it isn't too helpful:

Fred,

Chairman Stewart asked me to check into your situation. The County does
not have authority over HOA's. However, most HOA's have attorney's which
you could contact to assist you with this issue. They will be able to
provide you with a solution to your situation.

I have also provide a link to the FCC webpage for your information.
http://www.fcc.gov/

Frank

Frank Puleo
Office of the Chairman
1 County Complex
Prince William, VA 22192
(office) 703-792-4640


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

loudo said:


> Here are a couple of interesting web sites in reference to this issue:
> 
> This one talk about the FCC ruling:
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6495955.html?q=&q=&q=cable+deal+in+condo
> ...


OK, I haven't read the discussion forum but the FCC ruling, to me doesn't sound like it applies to single family home neighborhoods with HOA's, but I could be wrong. However at first glance, it seems it wouldn't qualify as an MDU. So if this is the ruling that people have been referring to, I'm not really sure it applies to an HOA for a single family home neighborhood (well, there are a small amount of townhomes in this neighborhood but the great majority of homes are single family).

Anyway, it is interesting, and I'll study it more this weekend.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

smokes20 said:


> Given the fact that your HOA papers are dated from 2005 and certainly not current by any means, I doubt that the current owners care or know the FCC rulings regarding this issue. Brookfield isn't being honest with potential buyers either by giving outdated papers to review prior to the sale. Which by the way, is a law in Va. It would appear to me that Brookfield is getting some type of kickback too from Comcast. But that is another subject.
> 
> Getting an honest, straight forward answer from Brookfield this weekend would be a deal breaker for me. If Brookfield isn't being honest now, what makes me think they would be in the future after the home has been built and problems arise as they do in every new built home. Getting a builder, especially Brookfield or Toll Brothers to repair after the home is sold is a long process. Getting the repairs completed satisfactory at best is a challenge for the home owner.
> 
> I don't mean to seem as a damper to your home purchase, but too many red flags for me, especially since our area has far too many choices of new homes and builders as well as existing homes that don't have these issues. By the by, you should check out Brookfield to make sure they have the existing funds to complete the building project in the development you are looking at. Many builders have money tied to undeveloped property they can't get rid of and many acres are now in foreclosure for these builders. NRV/Ryan are the only builders who don't have this problem and are making a profit. And no, I don't work or own stock in any home builder company. Just have many friends in the know.


I do intend to ask them why the HOA book is from 2005. At the very back, there is a one page sheet showing the 2007 dues (but not breaking out the Comcast cost). The 2005 dues were $132.50, in 2007 they were $148, and now they are telling me the current dues are $152. I'm sure Comcast has hiked their fees since 2005 so a lot of that increase may be due to them.

Anyway, will see what more I find out, and I'm using this whole thing as a negotiation/bargaining tool anyway.

I won't offer any opinions as to the different builders, but have been looking around at a lot of neighborhoods. The lot is in a really good location within the neighborhood with woods on two sides of it, and only one direct neighbor to the right of us. My wife really likes that, and anything comparable anywhere else is a lot more expensive at this point.

No neighborhood is going to be perfect, that's for sure.

Anyway, kind of straying away from what the purpose of this thread is - which really again I'm just trying to find out if they can enforce this bundled Comcast fee or not. Haven't been able to get a conclusive answer one way or the other, but it has been an interesting discussion nevertheless!


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

WashDCHR20 said:


> OK, I haven't read the discussion forum but the FCC ruling, to me doesn't sound like it applies to single family home neighborhoods with HOA's, but I could be wrong. However at first glance, it seems it wouldn't qualify as an MDU. So if this is the ruling that people have been referring to, I'm not really sure it applies to an HOA for a single family home neighborhood (well, there are a small amount of townhomes in this neighborhood but the great majority of homes are single family).
> 
> Anyway, it is interesting, and I'll study it more this weekend.


Keep us up on what you find. Our Board elected not to go into a contract, with the cable company, as we felt it is in the best interest of the residents to allow them to choose cable or satellite. Our community is about 1/3 satellite and 2/3 cable.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

loudo said:


> Keep us up on what you find. Our Board elected not to go into a contract, with the cable company, as we felt it is in the best interest of the residents to allow them to choose cable or satellite. Our community is about 1/3 satellite and 2/3 cable.


Personally, I think your Board had the right idea. There are some people who prefer cable, and some who prefer satellite, and in this day when there are choices, for an HOA to enter into a contract and then charge everyone for it as part of the dues, and say it is a "mandatory charge", just doesn't seem right. Then again this was the builder who did that, and I'm sure other posters here are correct that they got some kind of incentive or kickback, or whatever you want to call it, from Comcast. I kind of think (or hope) that an HOA controlled by homeowners wouldn't do such a thing, but I'm sure it has been done in some communities, somewhere.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

You might try sending the fcc a letter, and simply asking them if what the HOA is doing is legal, with lots of details of the situation, and the contact info for the HOA. You never know, they may jump all over it and you wouldn't have to lift a finger....


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> You might try sending the fcc a letter, and simply asking them if what the HOA is doing is legal, with lots of details of the situation, and the contact info for the HOA. You never know, they may jump all over it and you wouldn't have to lift a finger....


Actually that sounds like a great idea, so thanks for suggesting it. Will definitely do that as it doesn't cost anything except for a little time.


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

loudo said:


> What amazes me is that people move into a community with a HOA and then ***** about it. If you don't want to deal with a HOA why do you move into a community with one, in the first place?


That's the same argument HOAs were using in the 90s for having covenants that prohibited satellite dishes. In many areas it can be difficult to find new housing developments that don't have HOAs, which is why it is necessary to have federal regulations to protect the rights of consumers.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

rcoleman111 said:


> That's the same argument HOAs were using in the 90s for having covenants that prohibited satellite dishes. In many areas it can be difficult to find new housing developments that don't have HOAs, which is why it is necessary to have federal regulations to protect the rights of consumers.


Quite true - here in the Washington DC Metro area new housing developments without HOA's are extremely hard to come by. And I do remember a time where I am not that you could not erect a satellite dish.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

WashDCHR20 said:


> Quite true - here in the Washington DC Metro area new housing developments without HOA's are extremely hard to come by. And I do remember a time where I am not that you could not erect a satellite dish.


That was before this FCC ruling to allow homeowners to put up dishes or OTA antennas:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I would absolutely insist on getting budgets for all years after the initial one. I know it said multi-year budget, but unless it had escalation built in and noted where it was going, you have no idea where the increased amount is going right now above the $132 mentioned. You could be in for massive increases still if it is discovered that they did not allocate reserve funds properly. Hopefully, they have already done or plan to do a reserve study to determine what should be held back. 

I guess you could also call Comcast and tell the CSR that you are planning on moving to the neighborhood and ask exactly what services come with the contract. Surely, they have a rep somewhere that can tell you.


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## ncriley (Sep 22, 2007)

What a horrible concept.

So, what if you want channels that aren't in the package that the whole association gets? Can you even do that? Are you stuck with whatever package was negotiated? Does everyone pay for HBO, etc? What if you want a pay per view or a sports package, do you get billed just the amount over what the standard association rate is?


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

ncriley said:


> What a horrible concept.
> 
> So, what if you want channels that aren't in the package that the whole association gets? Can you even do that? Are you stuck with whatever package was negotiated? Does everyone pay for HBO, etc? What if you want a pay per view or a sports package, do you get billed just the amount over what the standard association rate is?


Where I used to live they handled it this way. Everyone got basic service, and you could add what ever you wanted (digital or premiums) and pay the difference.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Lee L said:


> I would absolutely insist on getting budgets for all years after the initial one. I know it said multi-year budget, but unless it had escalation built in and noted where it was going, you have no idea where the increased amount is going right now above the $132 mentioned. You could be in for massive increases still if it is discovered that they did not allocate reserve funds properly. Hopefully, they have already done or plan to do a reserve study to determine what should be held back.
> 
> I guess you could also call Comcast and tell the CSR that you are planning on moving to the neighborhood and ask exactly what services come with the contract. Surely, they have a rep somewhere that can tell you.


Lee, thanks for the advice about checking for reserve funds. Definitely will do that before committing, or at least get an updated budget. I'm not sure why they gave me this "Draft 2005" thing with a piece of paper attached that had 2007 dues, but didn't show how they were allocated.

I have a feeling the price I found for the cable/internet fee back in 2005 of $68.10 is probably for basic cable and internet service. That would seem about right, given that when I left Comcast perhaps 5 years ago, I was paying something like that for digital cable with 2 premium channels (no internet service). I figure internet is probably at least $30/month, and so that leaves the rest for basic cable. Undoubtedly it is slightly higher now given 3 years of inflation, knowing how Comcast likes to increase their rates. Anyway, as the current HOA fee is $152/month - that means the most the fee is without cable (assuming it hasn't increased which is unlikely) is $84/month.

I did see in the multi-year budget things like landscaping fees, maintenance fees, etc. on the increase as things got built and more things needed to be maintained. So that was a good sign they allowed for that. Of course, again what i got is a "draft budget" so who knows how the current budget turned out - but I intend to get ahold of it before I sign anything. Back in Feb. 2005 when that draft budget was drawn up, this was just a huge farm with nothing on it - I don't think it looks like they started doing any development until the summer of 2005 from what I can tell.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

loudo said:


> Where I used to live they handled it this way. Everyone got basic service, and you could add what ever you wanted (digital or premiums) and pay the difference.


I think you are right - since this includes internet I'm sure it is just the price for that and basic cable. And I'm sure anyone who wants to can add on premiums or other packages and pay extra directly to Comcast. Anyway, for me, at the worst case I'll just use the internet part of this, and I plan to stick with DirecTV for the television. I'm not terribly interested in going back to Comcast for TV. I'll put up with their internet service for now, until Verizon gets around to bringing in FIOS in that neighborhood - which is what I have now where I am (it just became available there in February). They are running it like crazy throughout the county and I'm sure this neighborhood will get wired up in a year or two at most.

I still hope to challenge this bundled in cable package in some way, or use it as leverage on the price of the house, which is actually what I'm doing right now with the builder - still bargaining down the price of the house and using this as one of the reasons. If I can get the price down another $3000 or $4000 as a result of this, I can consider it payment for a few years of having to deal with this bundled in fee until it gets changed. The county agreed to let Verizon run FIOS everywhere, so they really can't stop it from coming into the neighborhood at some point in the future. I kind of expect at the rate Verizon is going, it can't be more than 2 years before they'll get to this neighborhood, if not even sooner.


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## arkiedan (May 27, 2008)

WashDCHR20 said:


> We are looking to move to a new neighborhood. Unfortunately, their HOA apparently struck some agreement with Comcast (ugh) to provide cable and high speed internet and it is built into the HOA monthly dues which are $152/month.
> 
> So wondering if there's anyone out there who's ran into this problem when they've moved? Again, I think I'm just going to have to pay the buyout fee and be done with it, but I'm afraid to find out what it is. I'm even more scared regarding the FIOS internet - given that I'll have around 1 1/2 years left on a 2 year commitment. Moving wasn't on the horizon for me when I got FIOS back in February, and even more so when I got the 2nd HD DVR last September.


I formerly lived in a retirement community in Annapolis, MD, which had a very strong HOA. The community was owned by the homeowners and so dues were low at under $100 a month. For those dues we had two swimming pools, a huge workout room, a small 9-hole golf course, several private rooms for various activities, etc, and the dues covered everything.

The point is; all these great benefits were available to us, whether we used them or not. If we didn't use them, of course, there was no adjustment to our dues. We paid the $98.00 whether we used the benefits or not. I suspect you will have to pay the full dues, whether you use Comcast or not.

As for the satellite dish, the HOA sent me a letter saying the covenants allowed no outside antennas. I responded with an equally terse letter and included a copy of the FCC OTARD. I never heard another word.

The bottom-line is; if it's a terrific community and you love everything else about it DO IT! Pay the dues (doesn't sound too high to me,) have Directv installed in your new home, ignore the Comcast signals and have a ball!

Otherwise, find another community.

And, for the record, I hate Comcast too!

arkiedan


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

arkiedan said:


> I formerly lived in a retirement community in Annapolis, MD, which had a very strong HOA. The community was owned by the homeowners and so dues were low at under $100 a month. For those dues we had two swimming pools, a huge workout room, a small 9-hole golf course, several private rooms for various activities, etc, and the dues covered everything.
> 
> The point is; all these great benefits were available to us, whether we used them or not. If we didn't use them, of course, there was no adjustment to our dues. We paid the $98.00 whether we used the benefits or not. I suspect you will have to pay the full dues, whether you use Comcast or not.
> 
> ...


yep, OTARD trumps HOA everytime. Most HOAs do not even know about OTARD, and it freaks them out to find out they are in violation of Federal Law.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> yep, OTARD trumps HOA everytime. Most HOAs do not even know about OTARD, and it freaks them out to find out they are in violation of Federal Law.


If the HOA is run by a Management Company, the Management Company should know and be on top of all federal regulations.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

curt8403 said:


> yep, OTARD trumps HOA everytime. Most HOAs do not even know about OTARD, and it freaks them out to find out they are in violation of Federal Law.


Actually, having a prohibition against OTARD's in HOA covenants is not against the law. Most of them were put there before the FCC ruling that states that an HOA can't unreasonably restrict the use of an OTARD. Besides that, an HOA can still restrict OTARD's by requiring prior approval of the placement. The HOA can't, however, restrict installation or location in such a way as to cause the homeowner any additional cost, delays, or signal degradation. For example, if a homeowner wants to place his OTARD on top of a 50' tall concrete post in the middle of the front yard, but a signal of equal strength can be had by placing it on the rear wall of the home, and it won't cost any more, or take any longer to install, then the HOA can disallow the 50' pole.


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## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

arkiedan said:


> I formerly lived in a retirement community in Annapolis, MD, which had a very strong HOA. The community was owned by the homeowners and so dues were low at under $100 a month. For those dues we had two swimming pools, a huge workout room, a small 9-hole golf course, several private rooms for various activities, etc, and the dues covered everything.
> 
> The point is; all these great benefits were available to us, whether we used them or not. If we didn't use them, of course, there was no adjustment to our dues. We paid the $98.00 whether we used the benefits or not. I suspect you will have to pay the full dues, whether you use Comcast or not.
> 
> ...


arkiedan - I definitely agree with you, and that's essentially what we are doing. There's no restrictions on satellite dishes as I saw 10 or 15 houses with them, and have a copy of the covenants and it addresses satellite dishes - allows them as long as they aren't put on the front of the property, unless specifically there is no other way due to line of sight issues (but our property doesn't have that issue as I checked it out).

Actually, I used it as a negotiating tactic with the builder, stating my hatred of Comcast and saying how I'd have to buyout my DirecTV and Verizon (for FIOS internet) contracts - even though I'm intending to keep DirecTV and with Verizon, probably have a good case since I'm moving to where it is not yet available.

Anyway, I was able to talk them into paying 2 points at closing, which if you figure that reduces the interest rate by 0.5%, more than wipes out the $68/month part of the HOA fee for Comcast!

I agree with you, we pay HOA fees for things we may not use - but for something that is IN OUR HOUSE that we are paying for, that we may not use, I slightly resent it (maybe wouldn't be so much if it wasn't Comcast that we are talking about!).

Anyway, I was able to use it as a negotiating tactic, and this was the only negative about this neighborhood. So did just sign a contract on Tuesday and got the loan approved yesterday, so have decided to move forward on this house.

I know there were comments saying the HOA fees for this neighborhood seem high, but not truly - not for a new neighborhood in the Northern Virginia area, if you take out the $68/month toward Comcast. Actually believe it it to be a little more now - as that was the portion of the HOA fees back in 2005 that were for Comcast. The HOA fees went up $20/month since then, and I'm suspecting a bit of that increase is due to Comcast increasing their fee. In any event, if you take out Comcast and assume it is still $68/month, the HOA fee is $84/month.

So that doesn't seem too bad. The community has a swimming pool/clubhouse, as well as a two large playgrounds with equipment for the cihldren, and also a massive park that is part of it, and mantained by the HOA with several miles of paved walking trails, etc.

I really just started this thread posing the question about my original intention of buying out my DirecTV contract, but then the discussion evolved, and I also became convinced that it made sense to keep DirecTV, since the bundled in cable is indeed only "basic cable". Also, my wife is from China and likes the Chinese channels we get that we pay extra for (a lot extra for) from DirecTV - with Comcast she'd get none of that. So the more I thought about it - my initial though of getting rid of DirecTV when we moved wasn't a good one - and as I pointed out - I'd still have 1 year left on the contract.

I still have hope that when Verizon comes in with FIOS - they'd change the HOA bundling of Comcast. I have FIOS just for the internet, and really love it. Don't know about their TV service, as when they came in (at the end of February) I was just 6 months into my 2 year commitment with DirecTV. I'm happy with DirecTV anyway - so see no real advantage of switching my TV service to FIOS - but they are great for the internet. The thought of going to Comcast for internet sends chills up and down my spine, but at this point there's no other option in that neighborhood - however Verizon is laying fiber like crazy in that area - so my guess is they'll be in there in a year at most.


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## marva (Jun 25, 2008)

If you want to get the HOAs out of the Cable Bussiness you need to be active in FCC 07-51 as that is our FREE way to get freedom of choice. Telecommunication services are not one size fits all. In time of economic uncerirtanty cutting non-esencial services can make a difference
I saw some consumers from VA and FL meet with the FCC last week there are long doc but very interseting. Go to banbulkbilling.com as I'm a new member and the system is not letting me post any url after 5 posts


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