# Why DirecTV is crap



## ElRoi65 (Jul 12, 2010)

It is crap because every time it rains there is significant signal lose. Every time, on every channel until it stops raining. Freakin' ridiculous. I'm going back to Cable ASAP.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Sounds like a badly aligned dish and/or a problem with water entering the cables/LNB.

My dish only loses signal on ice storms sticking to the dish. Rain almost never does a thing.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

ElRoi65 said:


> It is crap because every time it rains there is significant signal lose. Every time, on every channel until it stops raining. Freakin' ridiculous. I'm going back to Cable ASAP.


OK, your new so I'll keep this helpful... I am in Atlanta and haven't lost signal for longer than a minute or 2 in I don't know when.

Of course, my lowest transponder signal is an 88 because my dish was carefully and properly aimed.

If you would like to post your signal information we can look at it and try to help.

If all you want to do is call DirecTV crap, then we probably can't help you but let me assure you there are a ton of Atlanta based DirecTV clients at DBSTalks and we can help, because DirecTV works quite well here in this metro area.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Sounds like there is a problem with something, this isn't the norm. I'd offer a suggestion but it looks to me like you just signed up to rant and your decision is already made.

Enjoy your cable.


----------



## ElRoi65 (Jul 12, 2010)

No rants, just stating facts about my experience with DirecTV. I have been with DirecTV for over 5 years and have been having problem on and off with the service.


----------



## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

ElRoi65 said:


> No rants, just stating facts about my experience with DirecTV. I have been with DirecTV for over 5 years and have been having problem on and off with the service.


I'd suggest, as others have pointed out, to check your signal levels and dish alignment. There's other factors at work here, and it's definitely not the quality of signal D* is transmitting.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Post your signal levels for us. You are probably just out of alignment. 5 years is a decent amount of time for wind and rain to wreak havoc.

Use this tool: http://signal.dvrdns.org/ and we will be glad to help you start to get things working in the rain


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

There's no reason you should be losing signal except in the heaviest rain/snow storms.

What equipment do you have? Is this happening on SD channels, HD channels, or both?

Please post back with your signal readings for each satellite's transponders (and both tuners if applicable). You'll find these readings under "Menu" -> "Setup" -> "System Setup" -> Satellite -> "View Signal Strength". Note the "+" and "-" symbols next to the "Satellite" and "Tuner" entries where you can toggle the readings between the various satellites and both DVR tuners.

Fill in your readings for each satellite and tuner using these examples. A properly aligned dish will show 80-90s on most of the relevant transponders (although some will be low or zero):

Satellite transponders (32 total at 101º)
[Most of your standard definition channels are beamed from 101ºW]
1-8 # # # # # #  # #
9-16 # # # # # # # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (3 total at 110º)
[No channels are currently beamed from this satellite]
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA #
9-16 NA # NA # NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (11 total at 119º)
[Local SD channels for some cities, Spanish package]
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (16 total at 99º(s)) [or 99º(b)]
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
[Note: these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (14 total at 99º(c)) [or 99º(a)]
[National HD channels]
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # NA NA
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103º(s)) [or 103º(a)]
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103º(ca))
[National HD channels beamed from D12 satellite]
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
9-16 # # # # # # # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (14 total at 103º(cb)) [or 103º(b)]
[National HD channels beamed from D10 satellite]
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # NA NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (9 total at SWM)
[You'll only see this if you have a Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM) dish]
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # NA NA NA NA NA NA NA


----------



## ElRoi65 (Jul 12, 2010)

OK. Here is the info. Please if anyone can enlighten me to what my problem might be and moreover, how to rectify it I would be greatly appreciative.

SL5/SL5s Tuner Number 1

Azimuth 0º, Elevation 19º, Tilt 0º

Satellite transponders (32 total at 101º) 95% signal strength
1-8 95 96 89 95 92 96 90 95
9-16 85 95 86 83 87 97 89 98
17-24 93 94 92 95 95 100 95 100
25-32 95 97 95 76 98 100 96 100


Satellite transponders (3 total at 110º) 70% signal strength
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 71
9-16 NA 74 NA 73 NA NA NA NA


Satellite transponders (11 total at 119º) 99% signal strength
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 99 0 98
25-32 0 99 92 98 0 100 46 100


Satellite transponders (14 total at 99º(c)) 93% signal strength
1-8 93 95 93 92 91 89 91 93
9-16 89 88 92 93 94 92 NA NA


Satellite transponders (6 total at 99º(s)) 65% signal strength
1-8 61 31 0 52 0 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 0 84
17-24 0 0 83 83 48 43 0 0


Satellite transponders (16 total at 103º(s)) Not Acquired
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 83 95
17-24 30 41 89 89 0 0 84 87


Satellite transponders (16 total at 103º(cb)) 87% signal strength
1-8 88 95 83 92 86 94 83 90
9-16 85 92 77 89 85 91 NA NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103º (ca) 96% signal strength
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
9-16 96 96 95 95 95 95 95 96
7-24 95 96 95 95 95 95 96 96

SWM
1-8 
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA


Satellite transponders (7 total at 95º)
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Those look better than mine  but it looks like it could be a little better, specifically that 110.

I bet you are having the same problem I was having. Something somewhere is not tight or didn't get sealed off completely and is getting water in it. I had an LNB that every time it rained hard it would flip out, then once things dried up a little it would be ok.

I would start by going outside and checking connections. If you can undo any of them by hand, that is probably where water is getting in. Make sure all connections have "port seals", those little black rubber boots. Next, check for cuts in the cable. It could have the wrong clips that pierce the outer jacket or maybe you have a pole mount and the weedeater did a little damage. In my case, the LNB cover looked like it was letting water in. I swapped it out and that got it working real nice.


----------



## ElRoi65 (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I will check all of that first thing tomorrow. Please check back on the forum tomorrow for an update as I might need some more tips if I can't find any of the problems you have suggested. If anyone else has any ideas, please do post them because I really don't want to go back to Cable, but I just can't tolerate missing 20 minutes of another Super Bowl this year.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Let us know what you find and I am sure others have more things for you to check. It should never go out unless you have a very very severe storm or a bunch of ice and snow piled on the dish. It rains pretty hard here and nothing goes out unless it is a tornado siren kinda storm.


----------



## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

ElRoi65 said:


> OK. Here is the info. Please if anyone can enlighten me to what my problem might be and moreover, how to rectify it I would be greatly appreciative.
> 
> SL5/SL5s Tuner Number 1
> 
> ...


I live in the Atlanta area and I have a Slimline 3 Dish picking up 99, 101 and 103, giving me all of my channels. My signals are in the mid to high 90s, with about 14 transponders reading 100.

I used to have your kind of issues until a tech came out and changed my LNB. He told me that my old one had 'known issues', and as soon as he installed the new one, I saw about a 10 percent increase in signal readings accross the board.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

ElRoi65 said:


> It is crap because every time it rains there is significant signal lose. Every time, on every channel until it stops raining. Freakin' ridiculous. I'm going back to Cable ASAP.


Recorded a show right though a major thunderstorm last night. Red areas on the NOAA weather radar and everything.

I checked this morning. The recording was perfect

It's your problem, ElRoi65, not DirecTV's. Get your dish realigned.

And I wouldn't have gotten these results before I had my dish remounted/aligned last fall.


----------



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

If you can't find anything obviously wrong with connections, I would recommend calling DirecTV and have them come out and take a look. The problem is their equipment. It shouldn't be your problem to fix. Try not to let them charge you for the service call.


----------



## boba (May 23, 2003)

ElRoi65 said:


> It is crap because every time it rains there is significant signal lose. Every time, on every channel until it stops raining. Freakin' ridiculous. I'm going back to Cable ASAP.


*GOOD BYE* 
If your HD dish is 5 years old it is probably an AT-9 which Directv should replace with a slimline.


----------



## drhart416 (May 14, 2010)

Carl Spock said:


> Get your dish realigned.
> 
> And I wouldn't have gotten these results before I had my dish remounted/aligned last fall.


Does he really need to? His numbers look rock solid except for 110.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Correct. I didn't notice his numbers when I posted. 

I try not to make my first mistake of the day before 7AM. Failed again.


----------



## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

I personally think that the problem is a bad LNB.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

I had a lnb that was cracked right at the base where the connections were made, the installer said they were over-tightened when it was installed the first time. When it would rain it was usually windy so the connection would bounce around and signal would go in and out. When it was calm I had very good readings.

Long story short... It seemed like the rain was the issue when it was really a bad connection. Sometime these things are hard to find but before you get too excited do a little troubleshooting. (Or let DirevTV do it for you.)

Good luck


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> It's your problem, ElRoi65, not DirecTV's.


That's a pretty callous attitude.

The problem is also DirecTV's, since the customer can't get satisfactory DirecTV service. If he has the Protection Plan, then it is DirecTV's responsibility to fix the problem at no charge. If he doesn't have the Protection Plan, then DirecTV could charge him for the service calls to fix the problem.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Also, the easiest thing to do to find the problem ...

press & hold {INFO} and then Run the System Test ..

If something is wrong, this will tell you what is wrong. Looking at signal strength numbers can be inconclusive.


----------



## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

In Mid Michigan i have some rain fade, but only in the Summer. When we have high humidity (which is almost everyday) and heavy pop up thunderstorms, it will affect the signal. I lost signal for 10 mins last week as a storm was coming in, then it came back during the rain. The storms were coming from the SW and it was right where my dish was pointing.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I get the feeling this isn't what is called "rainfade", but instead is a wet connector. Maybe there is something bad at the LNB, or it's an exposed connector that isn't weatherproofed very well.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

It could be any of those things.

- Damaged or improperly installed LNB.
- A loose or improperly installed connector.
- Damaged or loose cable.
- Actual rain fade due to very heavy clouds in the dish's LOS to the sats (NOT necessarily directly over the house, but to the south-west of the OP).

You can't do much more about actual rain fade, but all of those other issues *can* and should be resolved.


----------



## goldwing (Aug 25, 2006)

You all need to understand that rain fade has alot to due with where you live not just signal quality. I have aimed dishes in all parts of the country from SF to Vegas to Pitt and all over the midwest. Location matters. As examples you could aim a dish in San Fran with 80% signal and never have rain fade once in 10 years(lots of rain), same with Vegas(not so much). Then aim that same dish with 95% or better signal in the tornado alley states like where i live in SW Ohio and get rain fade all the time during summer storms. Its all about the direction of your dish compared to the jet stream. It just so happens that my dish is aimed exactly where all the summer storms come from hence more rain fade issues then most. (they also last longer then most as in maybe 10 minutes instead of 2). Unless your God and have control of the jet streams i dont see any fixes coming for it either. Its not just DTV either, same exact problem with Dish


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I had a bad/cracked LNB that filled with water and would knock out the signal even right after rain. Took off the LNB cap, dried it out, resealed it, & was good to go.


----------



## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I've been having the same problem as the OP. Had Directv out about a week ago to tweak the dish. I now have signal strength on 99/103 in the high 80s low 90s. Still am having "rain fade" issues. Almost every time, about 5 minutes before it rains, the high def signal goes out. 101/110/119 are in the mid 90s, and with rain, drop to the mid 80s, with no signal loss. Directv is at a loss as to how to fix this problem. They are comming back again this week.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

goldwing said:


> You all need to understand that rain fade has alot to due with where you live not just signal quality. I have aimed dishes in all parts of the country from SF to Vegas to Pitt and all over the midwest. Location matters. As examples you could aim a dish in San Fran with 80% signal and never have rain fade once in 10 years(lots of rain), same with Vegas(not so much). Then aim that same dish with 95% or better signal in the tornado alley states like where i live in SW Ohio and get rain fade all the time during summer storms. Its all about the direction of your dish compared to the jet stream. It just so happens that my dish is aimed exactly where all the summer storms come from hence more rain fade issues then most. (they also last longer then most as in maybe 10 minutes instead of 2). Unless your God and have control of the jet streams i dont see any fixes coming for it either. Its not just DTV either, same exact problem with Dish


I'm not sure it is the "jet stream", but more to due with the temp of the storm. Thunderstorms out west tend to not be as high as those in the east. Thunderstorms can be 40,000' to 70,000'. The more heat/energy the higher they are.
West coast storms are mostly cold, and those from the gulf or east coast are much warmer.


----------



## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

I live in Atlanta where we get some nasty summer storms and I get rainfaid all the time. My signals are high and I know its not a connector problem because we also get it when its not even raining at our house yet. It will often storm and hail a mile away and my signal will drop and lose the channels.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

goldwing said:


> As examples you could aim a dish in San Fran with 80% signal and never have rain fade once in 10 years(lots of rain), same with Vegas(not so much).


I can certainly agree with this comment .. I've peaked my Dish as well as possible without perhaps adjusting the tilt slightly (more work than I care for) .. While many transponders are in the 90s, I have a couple @ 82/83 .. I never lose signal due to rain fade. Seriously, I think I've lost signal to rain fade less than 5 total times (no more than 2 minutes each) in the nearly 14 years I've lived in California. And I'm not sure I've ever lost signal on the larger HD dishes as it's been many years since the last incident. Most of those were when I was in temporary housing and used cable ties to hold the dish up rather than bolts.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I can certainly agree with this comment .. I've peaked my Dish as well as possible without perhaps adjusting the tilt slightly (more work than I care for) .. While many transponders are in the 90s, I have a couple @ 82/83 .. I never lose signal due to rain fade. Seriously, I think I've lost signal to rain fade less than 5 total times (no more than 2 minutes each) in the nearly 14 years I've lived in California. And I'm not sure I've ever lost signal on the larger HD dishes as it's been many years since the last incident. Most of those were when I was in temporary housing and used cable ties to hold the dish up rather than bolts.


Come about 100 miles east and you'll find a few more times than you've had, but still no where near as bad as the reports we've seen from the midwest & east coast.


----------



## goldwing (Aug 25, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not sure it is the "jet stream", but more to due with the temp of the storm. Thunderstorms out west tend to not be as high as those in the east. Thunderstorms can be 40,000' to 70,000'. The more heat/energy the higher they are.
> West coast storms are mostly cold, and those from the gulf or east coast are much warmer.


I would totally agree that the temp of the storm has alot to do with it. My "jetstream" comment was more about the direction the storms come from then the storms themselves. If a storm is coming straight at you its going to be a problem for a longer period of time then say a storm coming and going from the sides. San Fran is the perfect city to use as an example due to its amount of rainfall per year, where the dishes are aimed (dtv or dish) and the direction the storms come from. I bet my brother hasnt had more then 5 rain fade moments in 20 years where i can get 5 per week sometimes here.


----------



## hookemfins (Jul 3, 2007)

With these newer dishes I've noticed more frequent and longer interruptions, mainly on HD. 

When I had the original dish looking through a screen, I had few interruptions from rain fade. When rain fade was occurring I would lose the signal for a few minutes. I was even watching DTV during hurricane Wilma and had some problems during Katrina


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hookemfins said:


> With these newer dishes I've noticed more frequent and longer interruptions, mainly on HD.
> 
> When I had the original dish looking through a screen, I had few interruptions from rain fade. When rain fade was occurring I would lose the signal for a few minutes. I was even watching DTV during hurricane Wilma and had some problems during Katrina


"The problem is" the HD signals are about half again higher in frequency than the SD, which makes them more susceptible to signal attenuation due to the water content in the storm.


----------



## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

This problem seems to be getting worse, at least for me and some other posters. I've been considering going back to cable to avoid it.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Last rain outage was about 2 minutes long last week. Wasn't a 'big' storm as in not a bunch of dark clouds and lignting, just a bunch of rain. Checked my weather station and it said that during that short storm it was coming down at the rate of 6.52 inches per hour, sure glad it lasted only a couple minutes.

IMHO, I'd take the occasional rain outage then the cable outages that can last for hours when the cable/fiber gets cut between be and the head end that's 20 miles away.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

goldwing said:


> I would totally agree that the temp of the storm has alot to do with it. My "jetstream" comment was more about the direction the storms come from then the storms themselves. If a storm is coming straight at you its going to be a problem for a longer period of time then say a storm coming and going from the sides. San Fran is the perfect city to use as an example due to its amount of rainfall per year, where the dishes are aimed (dtv or dish) and the direction the storms come from. I bet my brother hasnt had more then 5 rain fade moments in 20 years where i can get 5 per week sometimes here.


The rainfade we seem to get here is during winter storms. Living on the west slope of the Sierra Nevada, we get hit with some fairly heavy rain/hail storms. I think "cats & dogs" becomes "lions, and tigers, and bears, Oh my" around here.
As we should know, it's not the rain/hail/water "on our heads" that is the problem, but what is between our dish and the SATs that is causing this, which is what I think you're meaning by the direction of the storm coming in.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Almost all my outages are HD locals provided, if it understand it correctly, by 103 spots using a different frequency allocation than conus channels making locals more susceptible to rain fade. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## goldwing (Aug 25, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The rainfade we seem to get here is during winter storms. Living on the west slope of the Sierra Nevada, we get hit with some fairly heavy rain/hail storms. I think "cats & dogs" becomes "lions, and tigers, and bears, Oh my" around here.
> As we should know, it's not the rain/hail/water "on our heads" that is the problem, but what is between our dish and the SATs that is causing this, which is what I think you're meaning by the direction of the storm coming in.


Yes exactly. It dont even need to rain for me to get rain fade here  All it takes is a black cloud to my SW. The reason i get longer fades then most is because those black clouds have a path that come straight from the same direction my dish is aimed at. (sw to ne in spring/summer)

As far as switching to cable because of it is a non-starter in my book. Most the storms we get around here are HUGE and the smart move it to shut everything down anyway before the power goes out. LOL If not then i have OTA or a good book. But to switch to cable? ONLY IF I AM DEAD!!!!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Jon J said:


> Almost all my outages are HD locals provided, if it understand it correctly, by 103 spots using a different frequency allocation than conus channels making locals more susceptible to rain fade. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


"Spots" tend to be slightly stronger than the conus beams. As for frequencies, if they come from the D10/12, they are Ka-lo [same as conus] and are KA-hi if from the Spaceway.


----------



## hookemfins (Jul 3, 2007)

goldwing said:


> Yes exactly. It dont even need to rain for me to get rain fade here  All it takes is a black cloud to my SW.


Agreed. The thickness of the cloud is what I've noticed is the problem. Even with the above stated old dish, I would loose signal as the storm started building but would come back once the downpour started. The newer dish does take longer.



> But to switch to cable? ONLY IF I AM DEAD!!!!


No matter how frustrating rain fade maybe, I cannot see me ever going to comcrap.

Is there away for DTV to put a power boost in the dish to alleviate the rain fade?


----------



## redsoxfan26 (Dec 7, 2007)

The OP never posted the signal strengths for tuner 2. Until those are checked, you can't rule out a bad tuner also.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hookemfins said:


> Is there away for DTV to put a power boost in the dish to alleviate the rain fade?


This would depend on where the signal becomes the lowest.
There are two places low signals can be a problem:


at the receiver's input
at the LNB
The first can be helped with switching to SWiM. This will boost the signal to the receiver as it starts fall, by up to 15 dB.

The second can't be boosted, since the signal is lost before it gets to the dish/LNB.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

To those who are thinking about going back to cable. 
With "rain fade" the signal returns within a few minutes. 
With a cable outage it might be a day or two before it's fixed.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

jdspencer said:


> To those who are thinking about going back to cable.
> With "rain fade" the signal returns within a few minutes.
> With a cable outage it might be a day or two before it's fixed.


+1 on that to anyone thinking about going to cable here in Stillwater.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

redsoxfan26 said:


> The OP never posted the signal strengths for tuner 2. Until those are checked, you can't rule out a bad tuner also.


he also never ran the system test which would actually tell you what the problem is if there is a problem .. that should be the first place to look every time, not signal strength.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> To those who are thinking about going back to cable.
> With "rain fade" the signal returns within a few minutes.
> With a cable outage it might be a day or two before it's fixed.


Yeah, it's been a long time since I've had cable, but I had way, way, way more outages with cable than I've ever had with DIRECTV.


----------



## cmoss5 (May 26, 2006)

ElRoi65 said:


> It is crap because every time it rains there is significant signal lose. Every time, on every channel until it stops raining. Freakin' ridiculous. I'm going back to Cable ASAP.


I live in the Atlanta area, Tucker to be exact, about 10 miles out of Atlanta, and
just have 2 or 3 signal losses over 3 minutes a year and this is about this time of year
when we get out bad thunderstorms. I have the DTV protection plan and they just came out and replaced all the outside wiring and new outside WB box and installer said was newest with rubber fittings to keep out rainwater and any other moisture that would cause to lose a signal. This may be what you need also...however, must agree with others here and have Directv to send someone out to re-align your satellite dish..
also if you do not have the 5 lnb, you will lose the signal more and faster...


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmoss5 said:


> also if you do not have the 5 lnb, you will lose the signal more and faster...


 This makes zero sense.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

VOS, does automatic gain control also come into play?

Could one person's 95% in clear sky be different from someone elses 95% in clear sky simply because the AGC might be at different levels that wouldn't show up until rain hits?

If the one person still had headroom for AGC and the other did not, would the second person experience rainfade faster?

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> VOS, does automatic gain control also come into play?
> 
> Could one person's 95% in clear sky be different from someone elses 95% in clear sky simply because the AGC might be at different levels that wouldn't show up until rain hits?
> 
> ...


You're on the right track, but "on a clear day" there really wouldn't be a difference. The SWiM AGC is going to be attenuating the signal to -30 dBm and the non SWiM may be outputting -15 dBm [at the LNB], "but" where there would be a difference is as the signal levels start dropping:
Non SWiM drops linearly, so 30 dB loss at the LNB would mean -45 dBm.
SWiM on the other hand would still be outputting -30 dBm.
This is where the two show their differences, as the non SWiM is now -15 dB lower. As the level of the LNB keeps dropping the SWiM will be 15 dB higher until there isn't enough out of the LNB to distinguish a signal, which seems to be about 10 dB above the noise level.

This is what makes a SWiM good. You could simply use an amp on a non SWiM, but on a clear day, you'd be over driving the amp since the LNB output is high. If you could switch the amp in & out, then switching it in for low levels and out for high levels would do what the SWiM AGC does, but simply moving to a SWiM is easier and automatic [AGC]. For the best out of the SWiM, you want to keep your cable & splitter losses as low as you can too, since the AGC is on the output of the SWiM and doesn't/can't compensate for the losses after the SWiM [to the receivers].
Sonora claims receivers want to see -54 dBm, so this only leaves about 24 dB of loss before you're eating into what I think is "system reserve".


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Shouldn't DirecTV be the entity diagnosing the OP's issues?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Shouldn't DirecTV be the entity diagnosing the OP's issues?


Yes... in terms of his specific location and the symptoms he sees.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Shouldn't DirecTV be the entity diagnosing the OP's issues?


Yes, tho we can help the OP with what to say and ask.

And if the OP does not have the protection plan, we can help him diagnose and perhaps fix the problem in a less expensive manner. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, tho we can help the OP with what to say and ask.
> 
> And if the OP does not have the protection plan, we can help him diagnose and perhaps fix the problem in a less expensive manner.
> 
> ...


...which would all seem to make sense...since he came here to post about it...help is good.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Shouldn't DirecTV be the entity diagnosing the OP's issues?


Good point. Lets close all threads about troubleshooting and helping each other and stick to the issues of when the Tivo is never coming out and how angry we are for a MRV fee.

:grin:


----------



## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Actually, this type of discussion is very useful. It lets us know weather (pun intended) the trouble we may be individually experiencing is unique or not, and what we can do about it. Most of the time, the Directv techs know little, or nothing about non-common problems.


----------



## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Good point. Lets close all threads about troubleshooting and helping each other and stick to the issues of when the Tivo is never coming out and how angry we are for a MRV fee.
> 
> :grin:


<rimshot>


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Hey, Im getting a 771 error too. Its also raining 2-3 inches per hour right now. I switched over to SD, and its breaking up, and just quit too. Its a lot better than it used to be before I peaked my own dish, and added SWM, with new cables, but lets face it, when C band is taking a signal hit, KA band doesnt stand a chance.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

jal said:


> This problem seems to be getting worse, at least for me and some other posters. I've been considering going back to cable to avoid it.


I live in tornado alley. This summer has been unusual in terms of very heavy rains. It's July and normally we have very little rain (typically the lawns are dormant by the 4th of July). Today we had yet another heavy rain (lasted about 25 minutes and registered more than an inch), and, of course it was also south of us. We are 11 inches over normal for the Spring/Summer season.

I've had more rain fade issues this summer than ever before. I attribute this to watching almost exclusively HD (thus higher attenuation from the higher frequency), and of course the heavy periods of rain.

You couldn't get me on a cable system with a gun.

I've had DirecTV for 15 years. The occasional outages don't disturb me in the least. It's all part of the weather as far as I'm concerned, and goes with the territory (Iowa). 99.9% of what's on, will be on again, and I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot over missing 0.1 %.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Points well made


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> I've had DirecTV for 15 years. The occasional outages don't disturb me in the least. It's all part of the weather as far as I'm concerned, and goes with the territory (Iowa). 99.9% of what's on, will be on again, and I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot over missing 0.1 %.


Likewise...in rain & snow climates.

Here's something that proves a point that was made a while ago.

I just got the 771 (no signal) message on a couple of my HD DVRs for about 15 seconds this afternoon....NO RAIN...only heavy dense and dark rain clouds and some thunder. Not a drop of rain. So much for rain fade....after the clouds moved..the 771 ended immediately.

Then an hour later...it lightened up with lessor clouds, but poured for about 30 minutes like a monsoon. Not one 771 message. No "rain fade".

I've had a dish years ago completely snow covered and never lost a signal.

A poorly-aligned dish only amplifies this affect.

Having been through this in 3 states over 15 years as well...it's dense clouds (especially those in a severe thunderstorm) that cause the temp signal losses more than anything else. Like you, it happens rarely, but that's when it happens.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Two weeks ago, we had a T-Storm with 80 MPH straight-line winds. The local Comcast service was out for a week for a number of my friends.... Many utility polls were destroyed by the storm and by tree damage.

Nobody has the market on 99.9% uptime cornered.


----------



## tko (Sep 27, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just got the 771 (no signal) message on a couple of my HD DVRs for about 15 seconds this afternoon....NO RAIN...only heavy dense and dark rain clouds and some thunder. Not a drop of rain. So much for rain fade....after the clouds moved..the 771 ended immediately.
> 
> Then an hour later...it lightened up with lessor clouds, but poured for about 30 minutes like a monsoon. Not one 771 message. No "rain fade".


The signal is more sensitive to lightning. A properly aligned dish will be able to handle rain fade more than lightning. A distant cloud with lightning will knock out the signal if it's occurring at an altitude in line with the dish.


----------



## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Two weeks ago, we had a T-Storm with 80 MPH straight-line winds. The local Comcast service was out for a week for a number of my friends.... Many utility polls were destroyed by the storm and by tree damage.
> 
> Nobody has the market on 99.9% uptime cornered.


.1% downtime is 525.6 minutes/yr or 8.76 hours. I can tell you positively that my Directv service has not been out for anywhere near that amount of time over the last 3 years total.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Just a couple of questions for the OP, but first things first...

:welcome_s Welcome to DBSTalk!!! This is a great resource for DirecTV issues/information and it has greatly enhanced my DirecTV experience in more ways than I could list here!

Do you have your receiver(s) connected to the internet at all? Sometimes, if DirecTV's systems detect consistently low signals it triggers something telling them about it. If you have the rain issues that you describe, they may be able to tell how bad it actually is.

If you call them when there is actually bad weather going on, the front line CSRs sometimes dismiss reception issues because of the weather (there's something in their CSR system that warns of bad weather in the caller's area, I think). If you call when it's clear and describe all the problems you have when it rains, how often you have those problems, what your signal strengths are like when it's clear and some of the things you've done in trying to trouble shoot it, they may decide a service call is in order.

If you do have the Protection Plan, that should be covered. If you do not have the Protection Plan, there's a good chance they could still set up a service call at no charge if they haven't sent techs out for other things lately. Some have been told there's no charge because there hasn't been a service call for over a year, if I remember correctly.

Just my $.02, it certainly does sound like a bad connection or LNB problem as others have described and it certainly isn't worth thinking about cable before trying to resolve things with a service call.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tko said:


> The signal is more sensitive to lightning. A properly aligned dish will be able to handle rain fade more than lightning. A distant cloud with lightning will knock out the signal if it's occurring at an altitude in line with the dish.


Agree...severe thunderstorm clouds with lightening is the worst case scenario that may cause temporary signal loss. Rain itself is a very distant second. That has been my experience as well. 


cariera said:


> .1% downtime is 525.6 minutes/yr or 8.76 hours. I can tell you positively that my Directv service has not been out for anywhere near that amount of time over the last 3 years total.


I actually have a "tick sheet" to record 771 signal losses here. Of course...I cannot account for times that no one is home....but when we are...in 2009...we had a total of 4 minutes and 15 seconds of signal loss for the year - total. Without doing the math...that would seem to be more like 0.005%

A Comcast neighbor was out 2 days from one storm alone last year.


----------



## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

Even with great signal levels the Slimlines are more susceptible to rain fade than the old 18" dish. You could use some adjustment or lnb replaced if its just a normal rain, no major thunderstorm etc.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

upmichigan said:


> Even with great signal levels *the Slimlines are more susceptible to rain fade than the old 18" dish*. You could use some adjustment or lnb replaced if its just a normal rain, no major thunderstorm etc.


In my case...having just gotten a new Slimline 3 installed about 3 months ago - and previously having an "Boxcar" 5LNB HD Dish for over 4 years before that - I have seen an improvement in signal strength and reliability....and the "old" Dish itself was peak aligned only 4 months before the replacement.


----------



## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Lost signal in the rain again this morning here in Cleveland. Is the Slimline 3 the same dish as Slimline 5 with a different LNB? Also, what is the best set up to avoid rain fade? Is it a Slimline 3 with Swim? Right now, I've got the Slimline 5 with a wb616. Even with good signal levels before rain, I almost always lose signal when it rains. Its been a rainy season, so this is getting very annoying.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

There are only two HD dishes approved for use now, Slimline w/3 or 5 LNB (SWM or standard), and the 1.2m Hawaii dish, which as far as I know, doesnt come in a SWM version.

If I could afford the 500.00 to try a Hawaiin dish here, I would, just to compare the differences in signal loss times compared to the slimline.

Now if you dont care about HD, slap up a 6' dish pointed at 101 with a modified prime focus LNB, or a 1.2m FTA dish with a standard Directv LNB and you would get SD channels through most storms, but not the one we had yesterday. It knocked my 95% C band signals down to ~40%. Directv was out for over an hour. Comcast (internet) went down at about the same time and was still out 6 hours later.


----------



## debo (Jul 15, 2007)

jal said:


> Lost signal in the rain again this morning here in Cleveland. Is the Slimline 3 the same dish as Slimline 5 with a different LNB? Also, what is the best set up to avoid rain fade? Is it a Slimline 3 with Swim? Right now, I've got the Slimline 5 with a wb616. Even with good signal levels before rain, I almost always lose signal when it rains. Its been a rainy season, so this is getting very annoying.


I live in Chagrin Falls and I trying to remember the last time I lost signal and it sure wasn't this morning and I also have the Slimline 3. I've had your problem twice in the 14 years I've had D and once the LNB was replaced and the second time I was having problems like yours the tech ended up changing all of my connectors even inside and I thought to myself this isn't going fix anything. Never had the problem again, just glad I kept my mouth shut. It has to be a really bad electrical storm to the south for me to lose signal.


----------



## de_runner (Mar 31, 2010)

Aside from possible equipment issues, it seems to me that any "rain fade" or signal loss is due to atmospheric conditions. A curtain of heavy moisture laden air, i.e. thunderstorms, can exist between the line of sight from your dish and the satellite. With a lot of convection, as in the case of thunderstorms, hot moisture laden air rises and may be in that line of sight. Hot moisture laden air, as in a thunderstorm, is more common in the east CONUS than out west, thus rain fade problems are more prevalent there.


----------



## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks Debo. Well, your post tells me there's something wrong on my end. I'm going to have all the connectors looked at/replaced.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

tko said:


> The signal is more sensitive to lightning. A properly aligned dish will be able to handle rain fade more than lightning. A distant cloud with lightning will knock out the signal if it's occurring at an altitude in line with the dish.


Eh? The very small volume of space occupied by the ionization of a lightning strike will not impair the satellite signal measurably. The EMP (electromagnetic pulse) may overwhelm the satellite signal, but it is so brief, that it won't impair the signal measurably either.

Thunderheads contain tremendous amounts of water vapor. This is what produces signal loss, either in tiny or large drops...it's the overall density that causes the problem.

Lightning has absolutely nothing to do with satellite signal loss.


----------



## secondclaw (Oct 26, 2009)

I live in South Florida ... I have had DirecTv outages of over 3 hours at times (HD and SD) for a fairly massive storm, and many times for 10 / 15 minutes when regular storms hit. My signal strength is extremely high (96-99% on most 101 transponders) so this is all due to rain and clouds. I think if the signal is already strong you just have to live with this or go with cable, U-verse, or FIOS. In areas where cable lines are underground, there should be no outage of any kind unless there is a power failure.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

secondclaw said:


> [...]
> In areas where cable lines are underground, there should be no outage of any kind unless there is a power failure.


Being in the excavating business I can think of one or two other reasons that you may have an outage, and it may take a day or two to fix. Nothing in life is 100% so you might as well get what you like. My DirecTV service has gone out twice this month due to 3-4"/hour rainfall, thankfully they only last a minute or two. I cannot remember the time before that that service went out.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

secondclaw said:


> I live in South Florida ... I have had DirecTv outages of over 3 hours at times (HD and SD) for a fairly massive storm, and many times for 10 / 15 minutes when regular storms hit. My signal strength is extremely high (96-99% on most 101 transponders) so this is all due to rain and clouds. I think if the signal is already strong you just have to live with this or go with cable, U-verse, or FIOS. In areas where cable lines are underground, there should be no outage of any kind unless there is a power failure.


If the signal gets attenuated before it gets to the dish/LNB, then there isn't much anyone can do.
Having high/good percentages, doesn't give you the whole story though. Since these are from bit-rate errors, these only point to the quality of the signal, but not strength of it. 
You could have a low level signal that still has a good carrier to noise ratio and have good bit-rates.
If these percentages were really giving you signal levels, then you'd see the difference between them being taken on a receiver 20' from the dish and a receiver 150' from the dish, since there would be only a quarter of the signal level at the second receiver than there is at the first receiver.

I'd guess this may be why two members in the same location, with similar percentages, are having different amounts of rainfade.

While using a SWiM is not a cure all for rainfade, I wouldn't have a system without one these days, as it does reduce the duration of rainfade.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

I live in Eastern NC: hurricane central. I have actually had DIRECTV stay on during fairly strong hurricanes. It will, however die during a severe thunderstorm. I don't mean a bit of lightning and rain, but the severe thunderstorms that cause weather alerts and often generate tornadoes. Even so, during a severe storm, the outage is generally less than 15 minutes and completely understandable.


----------



## TANK (Feb 16, 2003)

secondclaw said:


> I live in South Florida ... I have had DirecTv outages of *over 3 hours *at times (HD and SD) for a fairly massive storm, and many times for 10 / 15 minutes when regular storms hit. .


I live in Central Florida and never had loss of signal for longer than 25 minutes. You probably have something getting wet and it is taking a long time to dry before your signal returns.I would check your equipment and cabling.


----------



## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I live in Eastern NC: hurricane central. I have actually had DIRECTV stay on during fairly strong hurricanes. It will, however die during a severe thunderstorm. I don't mean a bit of lightning and rain, but the severe thunderstorms that cause weather alerts and often generate tornadoes. Even so, during a severe storm, the outage is generally less than 15 minutes and completely understandable.


I agree with Greg here - but let me also add that during one hurricane a number of years ago (think it was Isabel) we lost Directv a few times during the most intense parts of the storm, but within a couple of hours all was completely back to normal. My neighbor, with cable, was completely out for the following 7 days!

Now at that time, we still had analog TV so could pick up local broadcasts pretty much throughout - and it is important to see those weather maps and get the local scoop on what's going on - with digital ATSC that just isn't going to work. I've already seen how badly it works (i.e. doesn't) when there are just light winds/rain because of its inability to handle multipath interference. So satellite will be even more important during the lead up to hurricane conditions - then back to radio which probably has the highest reliability rate during such conditions.


----------



## hatchet (May 29, 2006)

secondclaw said:


> I live in South Florida ...


Same here, I could walk to the Everglades. A thunder boomer sprung up fairly early this morning but was gone almost as quickly as it came. And those late afternoon showers that you can set your watch by around here have been coming and going for weeks like they do this time every year.

I can put up with the "loss of signal" as it is to be expected. It's a fact with D*. I guess its because I can put my finger on it, i.e. I know its due to the rainstorm. But if the internet/phone/underground cable goes out, I'm at the mercy of the unknown. In most cases, I won't know what caused the internet/phone/underground cable to go out and I sit and wait until it comes back on.

At least with the rain issues with D*, I can look out the window for the clear sky and estimate how much longer the signal loss will last until the rain passes.

I know we live in an "instant and always on" society but that's just not the case. Do I get pissed when the signal goes out right when the movie is getting good, yes I posted about it in another thread. But, I can live with it.


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

hatchet said:


> Do I get pissed when the signal goes out right when the movie is getting good...


But, luck happens every once in a while. We were watching David Suchet in _Murder On The Orient Express_ Sunday evening with storms approaching. "Searching for signal" appeared just as Poirot toddled off at the end. :up:


----------



## hatchet (May 29, 2006)

:righton:...nice!


----------



## Miller (Jul 22, 2005)

I consider Directv anything but crap but I am having a lot of rain fade this morning. The HD channels are mostly all out but the 101 tp's are close to normal with one hitting 100. The 103cb tp's are in the 20's and 30's and the 103 ca tp's are in the zero's. 99c is doing a little better in the 40's and 50's.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

DirecTV is not crap. They provide quality service with a wide variety of selections to choose from. DISH and Cable can be called crap but not DirecTV.


----------



## secondclaw (Oct 26, 2009)

We had our MDU provider review everything and they didn't find problems. This 3-hour outage was pretty much entire time it rained (it was heavy - couldn't see much outside). When rain let up the signal returned, so I don't think it was an issue with the dish ... its irritating, I know ... but I do realize its a fact of life with Satellite. Thankfully I have a DVR so I can watch something else until signal returns.



TANK said:


> I live in Central Florida and never had loss of signal for longer than 25 minutes. You probably have something getting wet and it is taking a long time to dry before your signal returns.I would check your equipment and cabling.


----------



## CoramDeo (May 24, 2007)

boba said:


> *GOOD BYE*
> If your HD dish is 5 years old it is probably an AT-9 which Directv should replace with a slimline.


Will D* come and install a Slimline no charge? Every time I've even hinted at it with a CSR, I get the $79 "service call" routine. That's why I installed my Slimline myself. It rarely goes out, though the mast (an old Primestar pipe) isn't quite plumb.


----------



## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

Yes. AT-9's should be a free ODU upgrade. You may have to call a few times and talk to the right person. But just explain to them that you have an outdated dish. 

Furthermore, you get one free service call a year.

Lastly. I once saw an AT-9 with the highest signal I've ever seen. The only one I didn't have to replace on a service call.


----------



## iceturkee (Apr 1, 2007)

i have also had problems with bad connectors too.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

If you have an AT-9, they are passively replacing them. Unless something goes wrong, there is absolutely no reason to replace an AT-9 with a slimline....if they are out to your house for another service related call, they will replace them if they come across them...


----------



## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

sorry I am late to the party, but it is possible this could be water intrusion as others have suggested,and not rain fade. My suggestion is is to take a hose and soak everything including cable runs and see if the problem can be created on a sunny day.


----------

