# Silver Bullet



## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Anybody ever hed of it or know if it is legal?
http://www..com/


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I have eliminated the site address, but from the below quotations, it is either a box designed for theft of service or a scam designed to rip "customers" off for their hard earned cash.

From the site:


> Features
> No more JTAGs, AVRs, Atmegas, ROM X Cards, ISO Programmers, TSOP locks, Dishnet Support.
> No need for script support or any addition support/software.
> Enter KEYs with your remote to unlock Dish Network, or Encrypted Nagra Vision.
> ...


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Well I have received e-mails and Phone Calls at my Dish Retailer stating they are a Voom Affiliate, they are new and want me to carry there products claiming they are a new Free-To Air provider. I posted here wondering if this is true or not. I am a new retailer and get alot of things offered but they knew my address and some company info. Thanks.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I am amazed that they would solicit existing dealers. They are obviously promoting a product to steal signals. When they contacted you did they give you a way to contact them back or did they simply refer you to the web site which really provides no contact information? If that is all they did then I think that clinches the fact that they are an illegal operation. If they did provide contact information I would have no qualms in forwarding that info to the Dish Signal Integrity Dept. 

By the way, good luck with your new business.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Echostar and ExpressVu (a Canadian DBS provider) are "quite concerned" about this receiver. DISH's Signal Integrity Department is looking into a "solution". Here is an article about the so called "Blackbird" receiver: http://www.cablecastermagazine.com/article.asp?id=27764


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2004)

just did a google search on "Blackbird" receivers it is out there and it is cheap wonder how E* will react to this one......


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> Please do not address the money order to anyone, PLEASE LEAVE IT BLANK


Respectable people don't ask for blank checks. I'd be VERY leary of anyone asking for unaddressed money.

And I also wonder if this could be a sting to find out who *would* buy such a box. Buyer beware, in more ways than one. (Note that the article said E* would be pursuing this via the equipment sale path.)

JL


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

1) When I checked on eBay, I found that a bunch of the devices had been sold ... in private auctions (bidders hidden) ... all with one or two bids ... all at the same price (+/- $10) ... all from the same Canadian seller. It's not that unusual to see a single seller move a bunch of the same item, but usually there's more price fluctuation, and usually there are other folks selling at least one or two of the same thing.

2) The article sounds planted. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I couldn't find anything online corroborating the industry leaders' quotes except for identical articles in two magazines with a single owner. I find it odd that high-ranking DBS folks would say things such as "It's not affected by ECMs." To my ears, it sounds more like a sales pitch than a warning.

3) If I were to do a sting, this is about the way I'd do it. The online seller I saw provides lots of reassurances that it's completely offshore and untouchable. That's what I'd say, too.

On the other hand, if it can be sold as a legal FTA receiver that just happens to be able to be reprogrammed to do illegal things, that sounds like the reasoning behind legal MP3 players and DVD recorders. Or the reasoning behind smart card programmers sold from WinkWinkSatellitedotCom. Hmm, I can't tell whether this is an argument for or against this being a sting.

Darn good thing I'm not tempted by these things, just as ExpressVu expands its efforts to eliminate paying customers in the US.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well I went out and read up some on it, it looks like you have to manually enter the encryption keys every time they change. The way I understand it is that Dishnetwork has 2 encryption keys. The current active one, and the next one to be use. They transmit them via satellite, and they change them every now and then. They do not change them very often since the recievers have to be tuned to a satellite channel to recieve them. The hacker sites claim every few months.

It seems like the quick way to disable this box is to change the keys more often. Right now I think that someone has to have a hacked box with a legitimately subscribed card (not a hacker myself just what I have gathered), see Dish send down the new key to the subscribed card, read the info out of the box and post it on the internet for all the hackers to program into their boxes.

One wonders if Dish could change the key every minute or so, or if it would cause problems with older recievers or perhaps I am too far off base and it cannot be done for other technical information. From what I understand Dish tells the reciever to use key#0 then sends a new key#1, then it will tell all the recievers that key#1 is now active and send a new key#0, back and forth switching keys. Maybe it causes a programming glitch (i.e. a second breakup in picture or something) that they do not want to have 10million angry callers.


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## cpdretired (Aug 25, 2003)

Here is some information about the internet site registration. I removed the internet link per forum rules regarding the post of hacking links.

xxxxxxx.tv

xxxxxxx.tv

Registrant:
Mike Williams ([email protected])

Ben Yehuda 
Tel Aviv, 63805
IL
972-3-6213224


Domain Name: xxxxxx.tv



Admin Contact:
Mike Administrator ([email protected])
Eclipse Franchsing Inc.
Ben Yehuda Israel 
Tel Aviv, 63805
IL
972-3-6213224


Technical Contact:
Mike Williams Administrator ([email protected])
Eclipse Franchising Inc.
Ben Yehuda Israel 
Tel Aviv, 63805
IL
972-3-6213224


Billing Contact:
Mike Williams ([email protected])

Ben Yehuda 
Tel Aviv, 63805
IL
972-3-6213224




Record created on Nov 27 2002.
Record expires on Nov 27 2004.
Domain servers:
ns1-hosts.nic.tv
ns2-hosts.nic.tv


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

I just received a call from them again. They asked if I was interested? I asked how he got my info, he stated from VOOM telling them I was interested in becoming a Voom dealer. I played there game and told me they ar from Canada, they are a new FTA Company, and on and on with a sales pitch. As soon as I asked if it was legal or not the tone changed in the guys voice. He stated it is FTA and it is legal because the keys entered are from Dish, he went on and stated it is like the old C-Bands, buy the equipment and the receiver will do the rest. The only reason the keys have to be entered is because the have not profected the storage of the keys. Again he went on and on. I told him I was not interested and i thought it was a fake. He got mad and went on and on again. I disconnected the call.
Whats gets me has Voom sent or sold my info? Or has someone hacked into Vooms data base?
Sounds like a fake or a way to pass hacking as legal. Im not taking a chance.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Interesting that the web site is based in Isreal. This is where the News Corp encryption division was based that had been accused of hacking the Nagra system (used by Dish) and releasing it to Canadian hackers a while back. Gee, I wonder if there is a connection.


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## cpdretired (Aug 25, 2003)

junki said:


> I just received a call from them again. They asked if I was interested? I asked how he got my info, he stated from VOOM telling them I was interested in becoming a Voom dealer. I played there game and told me they ar from Canada, they are a new FTA Company, and on and on with a sales pitch. As soon as I asked if it was legal or not the tone changed in the guys voice. He stated it is FTA and it is legal because the keys entered are from Dish, he went on and stated it is like the old C-Bands, buy the equipment and the receiver will do the rest. The only reason the keys have to be entered is because the have not profected the storage of the keys. Again he went on and on. I told him I was not interested and i thought it was a fake. He got mad and went on and on again. I disconnected the call.
> Whats gets me has Voom sent or sold my info? Or has someone hacked into Vooms data base?
> Sounds like a fake or a way to pass hacking as legal. Im not taking a chance.


I am a former C Bander. This guy is full of you know what. The Videocipher II boards were hacked with a chip. Then General Insturment came out with the VCII plus boards to deter hacking. He is wrong in saying that the receiver will do the rest. Hackers had to open the VC1I security cage and replace a chip. Some years ago the FBI raided business that were modifying the boards.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

In later models of the VCII they not only had to open the cage, but had to scrape away the epoxy that encapsulated the chip before they could get to the chip. I would hate to see the lungs of some of the heavy duty hackers (meant in more than one way) out there. I bet they are still hacking.


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

junki said:


> Anybody ever hed of it or know if it is legal?
> http://www..com/


Uh, you might wanna try that address again? Just a thought.

I noticed some people on here are defending Dish Network. Why?

DN doesn't carry any east-west coast network stations like Expressvu, nor do they carry CTV, CBC, Global, TSN, CityTV. Where's Movie Central?

Perhaps all of us can gang up on DN to get these, then when they don't, we'll drop our subscriptions in protest. Or get this Blackbird receiver. If they don't give us what we want, they deserve to go off the air.

But then if I'm wrong, how can we fix this?
-A-


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Art7220 said:


> Uh, you might wanna try that address again? Just a thought.
> 
> I noticed some people on here are defending Dish Network. Why?
> 
> ...


 I really think you need to read the whole story and all the threads befor you add a thread. I the thread is basically asking if this is new or illegal.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> Perhaps all of us can gang up on DN to get these, then when they don't, we'll drop our subscriptions in protest. Or get this Blackbird receiver. If they don't give us what we want, they deserve to go off the air.


First of all gang up on the program providers. They are the ones that licensed programming to be shown only in Canada. And blame the US networks for defining license areas for their signals within the US. But don't blame E* and D* for following the laws.

Steal signals if that trips your light fantastic and would like to risk imprisonment, fines, and public embarassment. As for me and my house, we'll get what we can pay for legally.

JL


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

Art7220 said:


> Uh, you might wanna try that address again? Just a thought.
> 
> But then if I'm wrong, how can we fix this?
> -A-


I think it has probably been edited out...


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

junki said:


> I really think you need to read the whole story and all the threads befor you add a thread. I the thread is basically asking if this is new or illegal.


Oh OK, then yes I do believe it is new and if it isn't illegal it soon will be.
-A-


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## cpdretired (Aug 25, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> Uh, you might wanna try that address again? Just a thought.
> 
> I noticed some people on here are defending Dish Network. Why?
> 
> ...


Yes the E/W feeds would be nice for time shifting. However, US DBS carriers do not have the rights to carry Canadian services. Our neighbors to the north are trying to convince their FCC for HBO and other premiums.


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

Justalurker:

So, I was going to complain that it was the Republicans who were dictating what I could see on TV. So now I'm going to change it to...

Which party will preserve my rights to watch whatever TV channel I choose?

Course, I could ask which one will keep their hands out of my wallet, but let's work on the first question. -A-


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> So, I was going to complain that it was the Republicans who were dictating what I could see on TV. So now I'm going to change it to...
> 
> Which party will preserve my rights to watch whatever TV channel I choose?
> 
> Course, I could ask which one will keep their hands out of my wallet, but let's work on the first question. -A-


It has nothing to do with political parties. Try to remember that the last laws passed on this subject were to ALLOW distants to be seen on satellite TV.

This isn't about returning broadcast television and radio to standards the entire community can embrace. It is about licensing programs to be viewed only in certain areas. And THAT restriction has been done by the programmers, not government.

JL


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

justalurker said:


> Steal signals if that trips your light fantastic and would like to risk imprisonment, fines, and public embarassment. As for me and my house, we'll get what we can pay for legally.
> JL


JustALurker:

So, after doing much research, I decided to get a BEV receiver. I'm setting up a Can. address right now. So, to be legal, I'm paying for it.

I also pay for DN, so they'll be happy as well.

As for if it's legal, I did a couple tests:

When the recvr. came over the border, it was not withheld by Customs. So, it passes the 1st legal test.

Then I tried to turn myself in to the local police cause I was watching Canadian TV and they said, "That's nice, now you are free to go."
2nd legal test passed.

-A- So there you go. Cheers.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Art7220 said:


> Then I tried to turn myself in to the local police cause I was watching Canadian TV and they said, "That's nice, now you are free to go."


I'd really like to hear more about that exchange. What, did you physically walk into a police station? Did you give them a call (on a non-911 number, I hope)? What exactly did you say, "I'd like to report that I'm watching Canadian TV?"

From what I understand, it's not _illegal_ to pay for and watch Canadian TV in the states, but it may violate copyright laws. Suppose I had a restaurant and I played the radio in a customer area without bothering to pay ASCAP or BMI -- I'd be liable for civil damages, but I wouldn't get arrested. So in that case, if I called the police and told them my restaurant was playing Local-FM for my customers, those overworked civil servants would likely tell me to go away, too. But once the ASCAP/BMI enforcement squad found me, they'd "negotiate" with me the way D* negotiates with smart card programmers.

BEV seems to be cracking down on overt across-the-border sales (see Global Communications, Freeway Support Services et al). Will there be a day when BEV or a "wronged" program rightsholder moves to a D*-style enforcement sweep, powered by local paralegals and collection agents? I sure hope not! But IMHO, the probability of that occurance is non-zero, and that throws the risk/benefit ratio all to hell.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> So, after doing much research, I decided to get a BEV receiver. I'm setting up a Can. address right now. So, to be legal, I'm paying for it.


It isn't legal for BEV to sell the service to people who don't live in Canada. So you are illegally paying for it.  That's what makes it grey market, and not black.

E* doesn't enforce Canadian law, neither does US Customs or your local police department. But just because those entites don't enforce the law doesn't mean that YOU did not break the law.

Here's a thought (and please don't do this):
Build yourself a 100w FM transmitter (kits available online) and put it on the air without obtaining a licence. You have just violated FCC regulations, committing an act that could lead to a huge fine AND forever ruin your chances of EVER being able to broadcast legally.

Will your local police or sheriff arrest you?  Probably not (unless you choose a frequency that interferes with a local station that pulls some strings). Will the US Secret Service bust down your door and take the equipment? Probably not (unless you make a threat against the president). Does the lack of enforcement make it legal? Nope.

JL


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

carload said:


> I'd really like to hear more about that exchange. What, did you physically walk into a police station? Did you give them a call (on a non-911 number, I hope)? What exactly did you say, "I'd like to report that I'm watching Canadian TV?"


Yeah, I called them from a non 911 number. But I'm sure if I did actually go in, they would probably say the same thing.



> From what I understand, it's not _illegal_ to pay for and watch Canadian TV in the states, but it may violate copyright laws....


So, who would be responsible for enforcing copyright laws? The grey market is not like selling pirate videotapes/DVDs, where the MPAA actually uses law enforcement. Is there a lobbying group for TV shows, or whatever they're called?


> BEV seems to be cracking down on overt across-the-border sales (see Global Communications, Freeway Support Services et al)...


Right, I did see Global's site, where they explained why there's no more mention of BEV there, and they are pushing Star Choice. Do you know more about the crackdown on Freeway?


> Will there be a day when BEV or a "wronged" program rightsholder moves to a D*-style enforcement sweep, powered by local paralegals and collection agents? I sure hope not!


You know, I don't think that will happen. I'm not sure of the exact number of US BEV subs, but I'm sure it's not even half of the 20 mill. combined DTV/DN subs. Maybe almost a million?
Do you know approx. how many there are? I don't know how they can even be found, unless they have a dish that says BEV outside, and even then...

For now they will probably leave us alone. Their fear of something going wrong during a bust & the constitutional challenges if this happens should protect us.

-A-


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

justalurker said:


> ...E* doesn't enforce Canadian law, neither does US Customs or your local police department. But just because those entites don't enforce the law doesn't mean that YOU did not break the law...


So then, if a law isn't enforced, isn't that almost like it doesn't exist?
(I'm not a lawyer, of course.)

I don't think they will even pass a law whereby foreign sat. equipment can't be brought into the US. The number of non-US subs isn't that large to bother with. And I don't even know what the "Threshold" number is when they will start cracking down. So, I'm safe.

-A-  Cheers, Art.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Art7220 said:


> I'm not sure of the exact number of US BEV subs, ... I don't know how they can even be found ...


BEV/TimeWarner/whomever could find groups of US subs the same way D* found its targets. Just raid a couple of those companies that handle the grey market accounts. Once they have the lists there's no need to look for a dish.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

cpdretired said:


> Yes the E/W feeds would be nice for time shifting. However, US DBS carriers do not have the rights to carry Canadian services. Our neighbors to the north are trying to convince their FCC for HBO and other premiums.


I'd be happy with the Canadian News Channel (CBC? Newsworld? I forget the name... the logo looked like a globe made up of small dots). I always like to get a global take on issues sometimes and right now we only have news with an American and/or British bias (unless you subscribe to the internationals).


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> I'd be happy with the Canadian News Channel (CBC? Newsworld? I forget the name... the logo looked like a globe made up of small dots). I always like to get a global take on issues sometimes and right now we only have news with an American and/or British bias (unless you subscribe to the internationals).


 http://www.cbc.ca/

They have unbelievable hockey night in Canada coverage on NHL Center Ice as well.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> So then, if a law isn't enforced, isn't that almost like it doesn't exist?
> (I'm not a lawyer, of course.)


Not a lawyer, but something else. :lol:

If there were a million US BEV subscribers there would be even more reason to shut down the grey. I suspect real numbers would show a few thousand, at best.

JL


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

justalurker said:


> ...As for me and my house, we'll get what we can pay for legally.
> 
> JL


So, are you saying it's only "Republican Approved" TV for you?

You might want to know that there might not be that much of it left. They'll appoint Christian people to run the FCC, so not only will they control what you can listen to on the radio, now they get to choose what you can watch.
No Canadian TV for you.

If you approved of the Repubs. going after Stern, you should know they won't stop there. Say goodbye to any dissenting viewpoints, and maybe even the Constitution. It interferes with the Bible.

But if I got that wrong from you, let me know.

-A-


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Art7220 said:


> So, are you saying it's only "Republican Approved" TV for you?


What a snappy comeback! You only needed 27 days to come up with it! Did you have to ask a Jr High student for tutoring help? 

Kinda silly pulling up a post that old to post your drivel.

JL


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