# So how does DTV get away with it???



## cccsdad (Oct 16, 2006)

I've been reading for months about the never ending problems with the DTV DVR, why and how is DTV able to get away with selling this crap. Isn't there some type of lemon law against this kind of think happening?

How can they hold you to two year contract. My assumption would be if the product wasn't working, they (DTV) have violated their end of the contract, and therefor it would or shold be void.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

They get away with "it" because there is nothing stopping them. People sign up for the product/service, get billed by DTV, and with few exceptions they pay their bills.

There are a number of possible reasons that people continue to keep their service and pay their bills. I don't know which of these reasons are the most common, or if any of them are actual, but they are the possible reasons I can think of:

(1) The problems with the R15 aren't severe enough to get people to cancel their R15 service. Even with the issues, R15 users would rather have the benefits of the R15 at the price they are paying, instead of cancelling.

(2) People who have informed DTV that they plan to cancel their R15 service due to product issues have either renegotiated an agreeable price for the service, or cancelled.

(3) People who have informed DTV that they plan to cancel their R15 service due to product issues have been informed that they have a 2-year agreement and DTV believes that the R15 flaws do not constitute a breach of that agreement, and therefore DTV believes the customer must live up to his part of the agreement. As with any contract dispute, you can ask a court to pass judgment.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I'll add:

(1a) There are people that are simply not having any of the "reported" issues with the R15


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'll add:
> 
> (1a) There are people that are simply not having any of the "reported" issues with the R15


Earl -- I don't believe that there is a sizable group of people who have had an R15 for more than 6 months and not experienced any of the "reported" issues with the R15.

Statistically, it is unlikely that someone would experience none of the issues.

More likely is that people who have experienced an issue have either ignored the issue or chalked it up to user error.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Earl -- I don't believe that there is a sizable group of people who have had an R15 for more than 6 months and not experienced any of the "reported" issues with the R15.
> 
> Statistically, it is unlikely that someone would experience none of the issues.
> 
> More likely is that people who have experienced an issue have either ignored the issue or chalked it up to user error.


Actually... Given the # of R15's that are installed.... (I have to get an okay to post that number)... vs the number that have reported issues (either to the forum or to DirecTV)...

You might be surprised.

But it is still an "option" regardless if it is 1 or the entire population..


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## bdinger (Mar 20, 2007)

I have an R15, have had it for a month without any issues. More than I can say for the @!#@#!!#$$ Time Warner DVR's that I have used. Those POSes are junk, utter junk. 

In fact, I like the R15 so much that I just ordered a second one thanks to this forum - that free coupon really does work! So I'll have two R15's and a H20, for me that seems about perfect. The HR20 is insanely hot, but I have no real need for it. Anything I want in HD I'll get OTA and record it myself or go with HD DVD/Blu Ray. 

So I dunno if saying EVERY R15 is bad. I know of several who have more than one, and they've yet to have an issue. 

Now those @#[email protected]# Time Warner DVR's and their horrible "Navigator" software, that's another story.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... Given the # of R15's that are installed.... (I have to get an okay to post that number)... vs the number that have reported issues (either to the forum or to DirecTV)...
> 
> You might be surprised.
> 
> But it is still an "option" regardless if it is 1 or the entire population..


Going along with this is the fact that, if I had to guess, a vast majority of R15 owners are light to moderate users. I would consider myself a moderate user. It appears that, for many, these problems tend to manefest themselves when the box gets pushed. I can't even imagine pushing my DVRs that hard - I just simply can't watch that much TV  I would guess that most users have a handful of SLs, and they record the occasional show here and there. Assuming that there are large number of such users out there, it's not hard for me to believe that there are a large number that have never had an issue.

Or, like me, they've never had an issue that's considered a show-stopper. So, they may get a stuck progress bar, e.g., but that's not enough to get them to complain about the performance of the box. There are probably lots of little quirks that people either don't notice or just look past. I've said before and I'll say again, a vast majority of folks out there aren't on the cutting edge of technology - they just want to watch tv.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have 3 R15s and had to occasionally reboot one of them under earlier software. It has been many months since I have had to push the red button.

My most-used R15 records about 100 two-hour movies per month, and plays them back into a DVD recorder. Not one problem in doing this for three months. It is left on 24/7 because I am copying these movies mostly while I am asleep or at work.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> ...My most-used R15 records about 100 two-hour movies per month, and plays them back into a DVD recorder. Not one problem in doing this for three months. It is left on 24/7 because I am copying these movies mostly while I am asleep or at work.


Now, that sounds interesting, but I'm a bit confused. How are you accomplishing this? The first sentence kind of sounds like your R15 and DVD recorder are doing this "automatically". The only way I could see that being the case would be if you had only one satellite input, so whenever had a recording going on, it would also be like you had done, an "autotune", and you had your DVD recorder synchronized to start and stop to match the televised show.

Otherwise, if you are recording the show, and then playing it back onto the DVD recorder after the show has been recorded, how do you find time to do that 100 times per month??? I don't really mean too sound incredulous, but that's pretty amazing.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Lemon laws are enacted by states and therefore vary from place to place. As I recall, most lemon laws apply only to motor vehicles. But, my recollections may need refreshing or rejuvenation--the latter being my preference. 

Loosely speaking, I'm confident that anyone who wanted to break their contract due to R-15 problems could do so. I can't imagine DTV wanting public, in-court testimony regarding the extent of problems such a user might have sustained. For DTV to sue would be a very dumb move. Hmm. Now that I think of it, my argument does seem to have a major flaw....

Cheers,


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## Boston Fan (Feb 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'll add:
> 
> (1a) There are people that are simply not having any of the "reported" issues with the R15


Count me in that group! We have two R15s and think they are great. (We were previously a DirecTivo only household.)


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## Gbojhi (Feb 9, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'll add:
> 
> (1a) There are people that are simply not having any of the "reported" issues with the R15


I love my r15. No problems after the last update back in December. Hope you have better luck with yours.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Boston Fan said:


> Count me in that group! We have two R15s and think they are great. (We were previously a DirecTivo only household.)


Boston Fan -- How long have you had your R15s? My comments applied to people who have had their R15 for at least 6 months, to allow the issues to manifest themselves.

And have you really never had any issues: never had a stuck progress bar, never had a black screen or frozen picture, never had a jump back and jump forward when pressing the 6-second replay button, never had a partial recording, etc.

Also, when you select "channels I get" in favorites, do you get all channels, or just channels you receive? And when you try to do a search and autorecord, does the R15 try to record on channels you don't get? _(Although these may not be meaningful features to you, they are features which should work as described in the R15 documentation. If your R15 has these issues, that puts you in the "ignore the issues" and "issues aren't severe enough" group, not the "issues don't exist" group.)_


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... Given the # of R15's that are installed.... (I have to get an okay to post that number)... vs the number that have reported issues (either to the forum or to DirecTV)...
> 
> You might be surprised.
> 
> But it is still an "option" regardless if it is 1 or the entire population..


That D* will admit too anyway!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Boston Fan -- How long have you had your R15s? My comments applied to people who have had their R15 for at least 6 months, to allow the issues to manifest themselves.
> 
> And have you really never had any issues: never had a stuck progress bar, never had a black screen or frozen picture, never had a jump back and jump forward when pressing the 6-second replay button, never had a partial recording, etc.
> 
> Also, when you select "channels I get" in favorites, do you get all channels, or just channels you receive? And when you try to do a search and autorecord, does the R15 try to record on channels you don't get? _(Although these may not be meaningful features to you, they are features which should work as described in the R15 documentation. If your R15 has these issues, that puts you in the "ignore the issues" and "issues aren't severe enough" group, not the "issues don't exist" group.)_


Well then that is clear... 100% R15 and 100% HR20 fail...

If you want to get that "narrow"... sure... every unit fails.
So you win. Clear cut... definitive reason to get rid of the R15.

So.. Turn in your R15, your HR20... 
Oh... and while you are at it turn in the TiVos as well... 
As they also "re-add" channels you removed from your customize "channels I receive list.." that is an undocummented feature.. it must be broken too. Along with... Messages... I mean if you don't check them for a while, you can't get in their and the system crashes...

*EVERYONE*; on every product, ever produced is in the: "ignore the issues" and "issues aren't severe enough" group...

There is no "perfect" device; that doesn't have an issue.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

Amen, Earl.

I know it is frustrating when your equipment does not work the way that it was advertised to do...But...Earl said it all.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Earl --

DTV advertises 4 primary features for the R15: "Never Miss Your Favorite Shows", "You Have Total Control" (trick play), "Recording Can Be Easier" (i.e., recording is easier than using video tape), and "Find and Record Quickly and Easily". 

All of the issues I asked Boston Fan about are issues which impact those 4 basic features. It isn't like I asked about channel logos being wrong, or caller-id not working. If I asked about those secondary features, you would be right in your flippant response. But your response is uncalled for, since we are talking about basic DVR functionality as defined by DTV.

But you are right. When it comes to the basic DVR functions which DTV advertises, every single R15 has problems. The question isn't whether the problems exist; obviously they do. The question is whether they are severe enough to cause users to stop using the R15.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> DTV advertises 4 primary features for the R15: "Never Miss Your Favorite Shows", "You Have Total Control" (trick play), "Recording Can Be Easier" (i.e., recording is easier than using video tape), and "Find and Record Quickly and Easily".


Your other quote:


Upstream said:


> Also, when you select "channels I get" in favorites, do you get all channels, or just channels you receive? And when you try to do a search and autorecord, does the R15 try to record on channels you don't get? _(Although these may not be meaningful features to you, they are features which should work as described in the R15 documentation. If your R15 has these issues, that puts you in the "ignore the issues" and "issues aren't severe enough" group, not the "issues don't exist" group.)_


The Autorecord feature you mentioned: "IMHO" is an "advanced" feature... one that is not required to record your "favorite" show.
So I don't see where that violates one of those core 4...
One that "should" work better, and will once they complete the necessary updates (to other systems), that will allow the feature to be full re-enabled.

*Reviewing the Basics*
Can you not set Series Links?
Can you not set Single Records with a single bush of a button in the Guide?
Can you not Trickplay a recording or Live?
Can you not Search for recordings and set them up?

The R15 "does" the basics... And no... Not every R15 "has" the problems.

Day in an Day out...My R15 records programs, the ones I tell it to record.
I can play them back... I can trickplay through them... I can search for new shows, and I can set them to record.

And I know I am not the only one... as just I know that there are probably more that have issues, that no one is reporting.
But which one is the Majority? And that question... we will probably never know the answer too.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Earl -- except DTV's advertising for the R15 described the "Find and Record Quickly and Easily" as the search and autorecord feature, which currently does not work properly since it will attempt to record on a channel you do not recieve.

In your humble opinion, that may be an "advanced" feature. But the DTV advertisements indicated that DTV considered it one of the 4 basic benefits of their DVR.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Earl -- except DTV's advertising for the R15 described the "Find and Record Quickly and Easily" as the search and autorecord feature, which currently does not work properly since it will attempt to record on a channel you do not recieve.
> 
> In your humble opinion, that may be an "advanced" feature. But the DTV advertisements indicated that DTV considered it one of the 4 basic benefits of their DVR.


Where does "Find and Record Quickly" require Auto Records?

So while the Search Result may show you channels you don't have... it could also show you shows that come "close" to the Search results... Is that a fault as well?

So while yes... currently... A customer needs to have a "rough" idea of what channels they do and don't receive...

Guess it depends on how you define "Find and Record Quickly"..


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## Boston Fan (Feb 18, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Boston Fan -- How long have you had your R15s? My comments applied to people who have had their R15 for at least 6 months, to allow the issues to manifest themselves.
> 
> And have you really never had any issues: never had a stuck progress bar, never had a black screen or frozen picture, never had a jump back and jump forward when pressing the 6-second replay button, never had a partial recording, etc.
> 
> Also, when you select "channels I get" in favorites, do you get all channels, or just channels you receive? And when you try to do a search and autorecord, does the R15 try to record on channels you don't get? _(Although these may not be meaningful features to you, they are features which should work as described in the R15 documentation. If your R15 has these issues, that puts you in the "ignore the issues" and "issues aren't severe enough" group, not the "issues don't exist" group.)_


We've had the R15-500 for over a year, and the R15-100 for a month or so (we replaced one our DTivos for the larger capacity and because we like the functions on the R15 better than the DTivo).

Overall, I put it in the "no problem" category. It has been a reliable, functional unit for us. It has never missed a recording, and we truly like many of the features better than the DTivo functions. Because you have decided that certain things are problems for you does not mean that I must classify them in the same manner. 

We were originally an all DirecTivo family, but do not subscribe to the cult-like loyalty to the DirecTivo platform that many do. Maybe we have just been fortunate with the units we have received, but our experience with the R15s has been a very pleasant one. We have two functioning DirecTivos in storage that we could go back to at any time. There are no plans to do so.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where does "Find and Record Quickly" require Auto Records?
> 
> So while the Search Result may show you channels you don't have... it could also show you shows that come "close" to the Search results... Is that a fault as well?
> 
> ...


I'm not defining "find and record quickly" DTV did, in the information they provided to me before I got my R15 last year.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

cccsdad said:


> I've been reading for months about the never ending problems with the DTV DVR, why and how is DTV able to get away with selling this crap. Isn't there some type of lemon law against this kind of think happening?
> 
> How can they hold you to two year contract. My assumption would be if the product wasn't working, they (DTV) have violated their end of the contract, and therefor it would or shold be void.


Rather than getting upset, which is what I did, I finally figured out what to do, and now I am extremely satisfied with Directv. I went to my local Walmart, and was able to find a DIRECTIVO R10. I sent back my R15. For me, the DIRECTIVO has been rock solid, and I love the features it has. So, my suggestion is that you do the same thing. In fact, I have two R10s, and have been extremely satisfied. For me, its like being with a completely different satellite company.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

i will preface this by saying that I prefer my R15 to my Tivo and have grown frustrated with the multiple steps it takes to set up thinks like Series Links on the Tivo. With that said, I don't think those that complain are part of some "cult", I think they just want a DVR that works.

Directv's numbers and forum posts are hardly a good indicator of problems. I always go back to my wife as an average user. If the R15 is not working correctly, she does not have time to get on the phone with Directv for 30 minutes, nor does she have time for the inevitable service call that will follow, nor will she take the time to post on a forum such as this. She will simply reset the machine. The issue will be unreported.

I can empathize because my first R15 was abysmal and had all the usual issues and had to be reset and reformated 3x's a week. My second R15 has done a decent job and other than DLB which I whine about on occasion, I prefer it to my R10.

However, I still have had a couple of issues even with my second R15, like spontaneous reboots and series links that stop working (every one of them) for no apparant reason - both which go to the heart of the expectation of a DVR - that is to record. 

If the percentages are as small as some would like to suggest, it is pretty strange that both of my R15's have had issues that are well documented as shared by others and I would suggest that a fairly significant number of R15's continue to have issues and simply go unreported and I hope the team isn't losing the intensity to continue to make this a better product.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

cccsdad said:


> I've been reading for months about the never ending problems with the DTV DVR, why and how is DTV able to get away with selling this crap. Isn't there some type of lemon law against this kind of think happening?
> 
> How can they hold you to two year contract. My assumption would be if the product wasn't working, they (DTV) have violated their end of the contract, and therefor it would or shold be void.


There is often nothing to get away with. I, for example, got my R15 for free, and after complaining about problems, they gave additional money back on my bill.

In my case, I bought a DTivo on my own and so maintained the DVR service and commitment, and I'm keeping the R15 on a shelf in case they ever fix it, but I was offered the option of simply returning the box and getting out of the commitment, and I know others here have done just that.

I think they rushed a flawed product to market, yes, but by most indications, they are satisfying those customers that notify them of a problem, so they are not "getting away" with anything in that regard.

I'm annoyed about the R15, but I'm very happy with DTV overall.

ApK


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## Sneezy (Dec 18, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> Lemon laws are enacted by states and therefore vary from place to place. As I recall, most lemon laws apply only to motor vehicles.
> Cheers,


 A quick search on NYS web site shows only cars for lemon law. I'm so lucky that I had to fight for 2 vehicles to be bought back in 18 months. 1 was a 2003 Saab 93 with 21 unfixable electrical problems and the other was a 2005 F150 with a severe vibration issue.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Earl -- except DTV's advertising for the R15 described the "Find and Record Quickly and Easily" as the search and autorecord feature, which currently does not work properly since it will attempt to record on a channel you do not recieve.
> 
> In your humble opinion, that may be an "advanced" feature. But the DTV advertisements indicated that DTV considered it one of the 4 basic benefits of their DVR.


I agree with you. I believe every R15 has issues like the ones you cited, and the Repeat vs First Run problems (wich has gotten much better). Whether the features are basic or advanced is irrelevant. Whether they're significant is relative to the user.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bdinger said:


> Anything I want in HD I'll get OTA and record it myself or go with HD DVD/Blu Ray.


Do you have your computer hooked up to your big TV, or do you have to watch the HD recordings on your computer screen?

One of the big advantages of the HR20 (or any other HD DVR with an OTA tuner) is that you don't have to go to a lot of trouble to view the content on the big TV.

I'd probably be reprimanded severely at work if I had to call in sick to watch a shuttle launch.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rlambert7 said:


> Now, that sounds interesting, but I'm a bit confused. How are you accomplishing this? The first sentence kind of sounds like your R15 and DVD recorder are doing this "automatically". The only way I could see that being the case would be if you had only one satellite input, so whenever had a recording going on, it would also be like you had done, an "autotune", and you had your DVD recorder synchronized to start and stop to match the televised show.
> 
> Otherwise, if you are recording the show, and then playing it back onto the DVD recorder after the show has been recorded, how do you find time to do that 100 times per month??? I don't really mean too sound incredulous, but that's pretty amazing.


I got my first DVR in 2002. Prior to that, I had 7 or eight VCRs going day and night and it really wasn't difficult to keep the tapes changed. I recorded a whole lot more than 100 times a month. I had close to 500 blank tapes. Not hard to do if you are mildly obsessed with TV. Or am I addicted...I have about 12 DVRs and this is whole lot easier. Threw out all the VHS blanks, gave my friend 6 gargage bags full of store bought VHS movies and TV series box sets. Still have 5 top of the line Sony VCRs sitting on a shelf in plastic bags. Can't bring myself to dump them.

What I don't understand is why would he record that many DVDs in a month. I know I just contradicted myself. Hard to verbalize what I am thinking sometimes. I guess I should say, why isn't recording on the hard drives enough, why the DVDs?

I waited for years to buy a DVD recorder and since finding DVRs, I cannot justify buying one. And I really want one.

Rich


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## cantfish2much (Feb 5, 2007)

The easiest way to fix the R15 problems is to get a HR-20 instead. When D* replaced my HDVR2 with a R15 all I had was problems. Went through 3-4 units and with various 'hardware' issues and finally gave in (most were picture quality issues versus what I was getting with my TIVO for the last 5 years with never a problem!).


While the HR-20 still has (some) issues, it sure beats the R15s as far as I'm concerned (then again I got into the HR-20 late enough in the game to not fall victim to being an early adopter who had to put up with the HR-20 being released well before it's software was what should have been for version 1.0 (IMHO)


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

rich584 said:


> ... I recorded a whole lot more than 100 times a month. I had close to 500 blank tapes...


So, Best-Buy and Circuit City come to you when they need more tapes?


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

cantfish2much said:


> The easiest way to fix the R15 problems is to get a HR-20 instead.


That sounds to me like a good idea, too. Of course, I realize that the HR-20 is not without problems. But, it looks to me as though the HR-20 is already more reliable than the R-15 and one could hope that its reliability will increase over the next 6-24 months. My own guess is that it will indefinitely remain more reliable than the R-15.

Can the HR-20 operate with a non-HD dish and TV? What monthly fees, over and above those for the R-15, would apply? I'm curious whether DTV might eat those fees for, say, two years.

Cheers,


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

rlambert7 said:


> So, Best-Buy and Circuit City come to you when they need more tapes?


It's 2007. NO ONE needs more tapes!

On the "mildly obsessed" or "addicted" question, I think we can drop the "mildly." The difference between "obsessed" and "additicted" is simple: did he just record all those tapes, or did he actually WATCH them all?! :eek2:


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

cantfish2much said:


> The easiest way to fix the R15 problems is to get a HR-20 instead.





wbmccarty said:


> Can the HR-20 operate with a non-HD dish and TV?
> Cheers,


If not, there's the equally simple alternate solution that I took: Replace the R15 with an old DTivo.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

ApK said:


> If not, there's the equally simple alternate solution that I took: Replace the R15 with an old DTivo.


I agree the solution is simple. But, it entails substantial out-of-pocket cost, which I can't reasonably justify at this time. If DTV offered the option of a free exchange, I'd cheerfully accept it and have no further negative feelings concerning DTV. Our household has two DTivos, none of which is used by me, and I've never been a fan of mixed hardware environments of any sort.

Also, as I recall, the recording capacity would not be equivalent. My R-15 tends to run near the upper edge of disk capacity. That may even be one aspect of my usage pattern that explains my dissatisfaction. Problems due to hard drive faults would be more likely to occur as disk usage approaches capacity. I've never been willing to systematically investigate this possibility since doing so has pretty serious negative implications for being able to view desirable programming.

Cheers,


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

ApK said:


> It's 2007. NO ONE needs more tapes!
> 
> On the "mildly obsessed" or "addicted" question, I think we can drop the "mildly." The difference between "obsessed" and "additicted" is simple: did he just record all those tapes, or did he actually WATCH them all?! :eek2:


Well, I'll confess. In years past I've made tapes. Watched very few of them, maybe 5%. I've also made tapes since I've had my DVR (about 1 year). Most of those were of shows my wife wanted to share with friends who don't have DVD players*. I taped 6 MONTHS of "Eastenders" for my wife before she concluded that she will never have time to view them. So, now I've got 4 or 5 "scratch" tapes. 

*I have also made a few DVDs to share. It's much more of a chore. I "play" the DVR show through an A/D converter, then edit out commercials, etc, etc. The sofware that came with the A/D has something called "Instant DVD", where you can just go straight through the A/D and onto DVD. Haven't tried it, yet, though.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> I agree the solution is simple. But, it entails substantial out-of-pocket cost, which I can't reasonably justify at this time. If DTV offered the option of a free exchange, I'd cheerfully accept it and have no further negative feelings concerning DTV.


There were definately reports of the retention department offering credit equal to (or at least a significant chuck of) the cost of buying a DTivo on your own. Can't hurt to ask. I wound up with a 120HR DTivo for about $120 out of pocket, if you don't count the $50 or so credit DTV has given me for the R15 problems.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rlambert7 said:


> So, Best-Buy and Circuit City come to you when they need more tapes?


I gave them all to a friend of mine. Don't know what he does with them. I went thru this with 8 track tapes and players too. I just found another bin full of blank tapes. Think I will just dump them in the garbage. All that money spent on worthless technology. Can't even sell the things on Ebay.

Rich


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

raott said:


> i will preface this by saying that I prefer my R15 to my Tivo and have grown frustrated with the multiple steps it takes to set up thinks like Series Links on the Tivo. With that said, I don't think those that complain are part of some "cult", I think they just want a DVR that works.
> 
> Directv's numbers and forum posts are hardly a good indicator of problems. I always go back to my wife as an average user. If the R15 is not working correctly, she does not have time to get on the phone with Directv for 30 minutes, nor does she have time for the inevitable service call that will follow, nor will she take the time to post on a forum such as this. She will simply reset the machine. The issue will be unreported.
> 
> ...


Other than spontaneous reboots? Botched "season passes"???? My Philips DSR-6000 TiVo worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 years. Never rebooted, never botched a season pass. Never messed up even once.

It finally died (nothing lasts forever) after its hard drive crashed. So I finally get a "refurbished" R-15 300 from DirecTV. Since I have their protection plan, it cost me nothing. Plugged it in, went through the fairly easy set up, called DirecTV to get it activated. As soon as I hung up the phone, the unit began its spontaneous reboots about every 5 minutes. I got it to work a little longer once, but then the picture froze while the audio continued.

Now I am waiting for a technician to come by (doesn't look like he will keep the appointment) and I will probably get another refurbed unit.

Obviously, no one did anything to "refurb" the R15. They plugged it in and it worked. End of problem.

I have no problem with remanufactured units of any kind, as long as it has gone through a thorough bench test before being repackaged and sent out. But given the ecomomics, DirecTV won't do this. They let their customer do the bench testing.

I toyed with the idea of getting an instant cake image and replacing the drive with a new 250 GB EIDE drive I have. I'm kicking myself for not doing this to begin with. Aside from the reboot problem, I find it hard to warm up to the R15. Six years newer than the DSR 6000 Philips I had, and this is the best they can come up with?

Not sure why I stay with DirecTV. Their HD PQ sucks big time, and their SD--lets not even go there. I pay nearly $100 a month for a minimal package.

I get a perfect digital OTA picture, and given the dismal offerings on TV in general (don't give a rats behind about sports, and the news programs on TV don't come anywhere near the depth and convenience of the web. If I want a true HD experience, I use my Blu-ray player and get 1080 with gobs of available band width (nearly no digital artifacts) front projected on a 102" screen. I can buy 4 Blu-ray disks a month for what I pay for DirecTV.

Hmm. What am I waiting for?? Just convinced myself!


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

ShiningBengal said:


> Other than spontaneous reboots? Botched "season passes"???? My Philips DSR-6000 TiVo worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 years. Never rebooted, never botched a season pass. Never messed up even once.


I think you are misquoting me. I never said "other than" implying that I was pleased with the performance, I am not.

My post had two points, first, I really don't think forum volume and call volume that are being used to imply that everything is A-OK is a good indicator of the number of issues.

Second, my point in contrasting my prior unit (which was abysmal), to my current unit was that, even with my new unit, a unit that is not locking up, or freezing or having to be reset several times a week, there IS still issues that go to the heart of the performance of a DVR, that being worry free recording.

IMO, we've seen very little in the way of forward progress with this thing in the past few months.


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Few months, try a year and a half!
Just my opinion though.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ApK said:


> It's 2007. NO ONE needs more tapes!
> 
> On the "mildly obsessed" or "addicted" question, I think we can drop the "mildly." The difference between "obsessed" and "additicted" is simple: did he just record all those tapes, or did he actually WATCH them all?! :eek2:


Absolutely, we watched every recording we recorded. We found that some shows can be viewed without regard to date, but that most programs had some small degree of continuity and some (Lost, 24, etc.) were best watched in their entirety. I even made a database in Excel. Had VHS tape racks in every room but the bathroom and the kitchen. Add all that to all the tapes we bought new over the years. DVRs save a lot of physical space.

As for having an "addictive personality", yeah, I guess I have come to terms with that. I used to smoke 3 packs, at least, of unfiltered Pall Malls a day when I smoked, put a gallon of ice cream in front of me and I will consume it in one sitting, when I was drinking, a case of beer a day was normal and I have been married three times, spent about 15 years playing softball every night and day of the week. :lol:

Thanx,
Appreciated the humor,
Rich


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