# That Law and Order noise (HnnnHNNNN!)



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Rejoice, L&O:TOS fans, it's coming!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yep.... It came last night... 2 hours worth of it.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm still jazzed, haven't seen it yet. Surprised no one is discussing it yet.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm still jazzed, haven't seen it yet. Surprised no one is discussing it yet.


 That is probably because a lot of us haven't watched it yet.

We are trying to catchup on the backlog of CSI's.... and didn't want to watch commercials in the L&O


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I still think back in the day Lennie Briscoe could have taken down any of those CSI guys, especially Grissom. RIP, Mr. Orbach. 

I really want to know, does DA Jack McCoy tip his hat to former DA and former boss Adam Schiff in the first episode? No one could croak "Make a DEEEALLLL" like that guy.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I miss Jerry Orbach too. It is difficult to say just how different the show is since he left (and he left the regular series a bit before he died to go to a spinoff that was essentially cancelled shortly after his death).

I like a lot of the characters and actors, including the guy who plays Detective Green (his name always escapes me), S Epatha howeveryouspellherlastnamerson  and Sam Waterston too... but Lenny/Orbach was a big part of the show's appeal to me once he came on board.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

I watched the first episode of the 2 episode premiere last night. Pretty good. I like the new assistant DA.



Spoiler



I liked Jack's line that the DA's office will be a working office under his administration and not a place to display trophies like Arthur Branch did. I guess Jack will still be a key figure in the show.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Watched em both. Stories were OK. I'm not thrilled with Green's new partner (Jeremy Sisto role). He's a bit too "dark" and "brooding" for my taste. New ADA seems promising.

Just my .02. /s


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Remember how they portrayed Ed Green the first couple episodes? Sort of a moody whiny muppet. Didn't like him at all. Now that he's "been on the job" a while he's as bitter as any of the classic characters. Give Sisto time. I only regret that we didn't see last season's female detective have the time to get world-weary.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Remember how they portrayed Ed Green the first couple episodes? Sort of a moody whiny muppet. Didn't like him at all. Now that he's "been on the job" a while he's as bitter as any of the classic characters. Give Sisto time. I only regret that we didn't see last season's female detective have the time to get world-weary.


Ya. I really liked her, actually. She was also good in "Conviction", which the wife and I wished had been given more time as well.

Her 2-year contract with Dick Wolf must have run out.  /steve


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## apexmi (Jul 8, 2006)

I watched them last night. I know they made a vague reference to McCoy being appointed to the DA position not elected but did not mention why? (Maybe they are leaving the Arthur Branch exit unspoken in case of a return if the Presidential run does not go well).. just my thoughts, overall pretty good for the first 2 episodes with new characters.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I know that when Adam Schiff left they said something about it being a task force or something, Dianne Wiest (who IMO never owned the role) was appointed as well.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

HDMe said:


> I miss Jerry Orbach too. It is difficult to say just how different the show is since he left (and he left the regular series a bit before he died to go to a spinoff that was essentially cancelled shortly after his death).
> 
> I like a lot of the characters and actors, including the guy who plays Detective Green (his name always escapes me), S Epatha howeveryouspellherlastnamerson  and Sam Waterston too... but Lenny/Orbach was a big part of the show's appeal to me once he came on board.


I agree. Orbach's Briscoe character was the best Law & Order ever had. He just exemplified a NY detective.

As far as McCoy being the new DA, I'll give him some time, but he sure is sounding like a bleeding heart lefty so far. I hate it when a character comes across as too left-wing or right-wing either way.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I agree. Orbach's Briscoe character was the best Law & Order ever had. He just exemplified a NY detective.
> 
> As far as McCoy being the new DA, I'll give him some time, but he sure is sounding like a bleeding heart lefty so far. I hate it when a character comes across as too left-wing or right-wing either way.


Do you think it would have been right for the McCoy character to instantly turn into Fred Thompson ideologically? I think it will be more interesting if they give Jack the opportunity to understand why his predecessors were more about doing business and showing a good face than they were about doing right.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That's why I said I'll give him time.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Remember how they portrayed Ed Green the first couple episodes? Sort of a moody whiny muppet. Didn't like him at all. Now that he's "been on the job" a while he's as bitter as any of the classic characters. Give Sisto time. I only regret that we didn't see last season's female detective have the time to get world-weary.


I agree about Sisto. I actually liked his character and feel the new ADA Roache is outstanding. That first episode featrured a brooding Sosto, but given the story line, that is pretty much how one might expect him to be. Give him time. I think that overall the shows seem refreshed and I liked both episodes.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I finally watched these two episodes this afternoon.

Boy, not impressed. Not impressed at all. 

They got rid of the cold openings, going for ones more like L&O:CSI. Poor move. I liked the old ones better. They were part of the set pieces that are L&O, like the fact that in most episodes, somebody's eating.

Michael Cutter (Linus Roache's character and the new A.D.A) was a very cold fish. No personality at all. No attraction to the camera. Not much brains, either.

The plot of the first episode was all over the place and completely improbable. The second was better but not by much. There was a plot device, essential to the action, that never was resolved. It was assumed it would go away and it did. Come on. Don't make it a major road block later a free ride. Your plot device just turned into a plot hole.

About the only thing that was good was Greene's new partner, Cyrus Lupo (played by Jeremy Sisto). He'll do nicely. There is a lot under the surface with him we don't know about but already you can see it's perking.

If this was a grading exercise, I'd give "Called Home" a C- and "Darkness" a B-.

And I'm being generous with those grades.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Main Detectives so far in the series (not counting "guest" or "fill-ins" that did a couple of episodes here or there):

1990 George Dzundza ... Det. Sgt. Maxwell "Max" Greevey (Are these episodes even replayed anywhere?)








1991-1993 Paul Sorvino ... Det. Sgt. Philip "Phil" Cerreta (This is as early as I've seen them on A&E and TNT)








*1990-1995 Chris Noth ... Detective Mike Logan *








1995-1999 Benjamin Bratt ... Detective Rey Curtis 








*1993-2004 Jerry Orbach ... Detective Lennie Briscoe* 








2004-2006 Dennis Farina ... Detective Joe Fontana 








2006-2007 Milena Govich ... Detective Nina Cassady 








2008 (Jan)-Present - (all two episodes) Jeremy Sisto ... Detective Cyrus Lupo 








*1999-Present - Jesse L. Martin ... Detective Ed Green *









With the exception on Sisto, the start is the fall of the year and the end is in May of that year.

Was it Paul Sorvino or George Dzundza who was written out of the series by getting shot in the head as he was trying to get in his car at home? That is the only detective I know who was permenantly written off the show.

BTW, Jack McCoy is ACTING D.A, for the remainder of the term.

See ya
Tony


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> Was it Paul Sorvino or George Dzundza who was written out of the series by getting shot in the head as he was trying to get in his car at home? That is the only detective I know who was permenantly written off the show.
> 
> BTW, Jack McCoy is ACTING D.A, for the remainder of the term.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure it was Dzundza. I seem to remember an episode where Sorvino and Noth visited his widow. /steve


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Let's not forget that overlooked Detective who was on the series for 9 seasons. Detective Tony Profaci.:lol: Played by John Fiore he was only shown in 53 episodes but was often referred to even after he had left the show. As in "Give it to Profaci." or "Let Profaci handle that"

Trivia from Imdb:
The distinctive "thunk-thunk" sound effect used in between scenes was created by combining close to a dozen sounds, including that of a group of monks stamping on a floor.
When the show began airing in re-runs on TNT, new digital technology was used to insert "product placements" (paid appearances of name-brand products) into the show. The easiest to spot is for Coca-Cola; any time you see a Coke can sitting on a desk, it has been added digitally.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure it was Dzundza. I seem to remember an episode where Sorvino and Noth visited his widow. /steve


George Dzundza got shot in the head and was never seen again. I think that Logan "accidentally" shot Ceretta in the rib and he retired after that.

There's a great line in L&O:CI when Logan came back when his new partner says something like, "I think I'll wear a bulletproof vest a little more often" and looks Logan in the eye. Total throwaway and never explained... but I knew.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> George Dzundza got shot in the head and was never seen again. I think that Logan "accidentally" shot Ceretta in the rib and he retired after that.
> 
> There's a great line in L&O:CI when Logan came back when his new partner says something like, "I think I'll wear a bulletproof vest a little more often" and looks Logan in the eye. Total throwaway and never explained... but I knew.


Didn't they write Logan out by shipping him off to a Staten Island precinct because he had become a little 'unmanageable'? I remember them doing a subsequent L&O "movie" with him out there. /steve


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## MichaelP (Dec 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> There's a great line in L&O:CI when Logan came back when his new partner says something like, "I think I'll wear a bulletproof vest a little more often" and looks Logan in the eye. Total throwaway and never explained... but I knew.


If I remember correctly she said that because Logan had a bad trend of partners getting shot. Both Greevy and Cerreta got shot while his partner. Not long after Lenny came on as Logan's partner Logan punched a city councilman and got sent to Staten Island for a decade.

I was glad to see him get back to Manhattan with major case. He has always been one of my favorite detectives on the show and I think he and Briscoe were the best partners.

Regards,
Michael


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## bb37 (Dec 27, 2007)

Steve said:


> I remember them doing a subsequent L&O "movie" with him out there.


Saw that. Didn't like it. I like Chris Noth as Logan in the series, but he was awful in that movie. Couldn't tell if he was just having a bad day as an actor or if the director was incompetent.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

It didn't have that L&O feel. It felt totally detached from the series, even though all the regulars made their cameo and they used some of the same sets. Very strange...and not very good.

The only thing good about it? (warning - _who done it _revealed)



Spoiler



Profaci was a major character and turned out to be the bad guy.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> It didn't have that L&O feel. It felt totally detached from the series, even though all the regulars made their cameo and they used some of the same sets. Very strange...and not very good.
> 
> The only thing good about it? (warning - _who done it _revealed)
> 
> ...


I remember that. It definitely got me! How about Dabney Coleman as Logan's supervisor on Staten Island?

From what I understand, Mike Noth wanted to take a break from L&O for a bit so Dick Wolf let him go. Apparently though, Dick Wolf's favorite character is Logan so a few years later he let Mike Noth come back to answer fans questions as to what happened to Logan after he was _Exiled_. When they needed help with CI, Dick Wolf went back to Noth and asked him to reprise his role.

As for Dzundza, he was killed off in the first episode of the season. They show someone who is supposed to be Greevey getting out of his car and getting shot in the back of his head in his driveway. You also get the first insight into Logan's hot-headedness when he finds the perp in a back alley.

- Merg


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

I remember reading at the time that Noth wrote the movie bringing his character back, so it was connected to L&O, but from a character's viewpoint. Logan was always my favorite detective, but Brisco easily became the fav after Noth left.


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## HouseBowlrz (Jul 15, 2007)

Charise said:


> I remember reading at the time that Noth wrote the movie bringing his character back, so it was connected to L&O, but from a character's viewpoint. Logan was always my favorite detective, but Brisco easily became the fav after Noth left.


I have to admit that Briscoe was my favorite detective because of his quips ... had Jerry (Orbach) not passed away in December 2004, "Trial By Jury" might have taken off. I'm sure TBJ was banking on the popularity of Briscoe to make it go.

Meanwhile, it's going to take me a while to adjust to McCoy as *the* District Attorney. I like how he keeps his "old school" approach while his prosecutors stretch the limits with technology.

cheers


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I watched this week's episode, Misbegotten, last night. I liked it better than either of the first two episodes. One, they went back to the classic cold opening. The viewer is as surprised by the murder as anyone. The new A.D.A, Mike Cutter, may be growing on me. And I definitely like the new detective, Jeremy Sisto.

It isn't like I'm going to stop watching after all these years, anyway.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm really liking Cutter, but not so sure I like how McCoy just walks around the ADA offices with his arms folded so he can give advice. I know they're trying to give him more screen time than they typically have given the DA, but it just seems contrived. I guess we're to assume he's walking and talking with all the other ADAs about their cases but since we never see that, he appears like an old guy walking around aimlessly.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

You see, I sort of like Jack's "management by wandering around" style, which is also very fashionable right now. I also like how they didn't give McCoy's old office to Cutter. He has a different one, including a white board that is periodically a prop. It's a stark, working office. Jack's office was getting all too comfortable.

McCoy is still riding his bike. He was carrying his motorcycle helmet in the last episode.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I hate when managers walk around. Tells me they're bored.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Kinda like moderators.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well played sir!


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Of course.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

This morning I watched this last week's new episode, "Bottomless". It was by far and away the best episode of the season so far. Cutter didn't look stupid and it had a great twist at the end. I think the series is getting back on track.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> This morning I watched this last week's new episode, "Bottomless". It was by far and away the best episode of the season so far. Cutter didn't look stupid and it had a great twist at the end. I think the series is getting back on track.


IMO, the best one so far this year. I still haven't reached the point where I'm looking it forward to it, however, like a new episode of "The Closer", or more recently, "Life". /steve


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Yeah, I know what you mean, Steve, but it's getting there.

IMHO, the episode needed ten additional seconds of footage:



Spoiler



Near the end, after McCoy lets the company off the hook and Cutter chews him out, they should have had Jack reach for the phone and tell his secretary to get Van Buren on the line. It would have been all Jack's plot. But then, who is to say he didn't?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean, Steve, but it's getting there.
> 
> IMHO, the episode needed ten additional seconds of footage:


That would have worked for me.  /steve


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Getting caught up on this one, I'm beginning to like Cutter more, he's not as much of a maverick/idiot (depending on how kind you choose to be). Still if there's one trend so far it's that stunts and breaking the rules are rewarded, even if you get a slap on the wrist for it. 

Linus Roache needs to work a little more on his US accent, although it's tons better than my British accent.


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## bb37 (Dec 27, 2007)

Now that Fred Thompson is no longer a presidential candidate, I'd like to see him come back to the show.

Did they ever explain why his character left? Seems like the new season just started with <poof> Jack McCoy as Acting DA.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Finally watched the episode where the white parent and the black parent were tried together. I've been waiting for it, and when Cutter mentioned Adam Schiff's name, I knew it was finally here... Jack McCoy, the win-at-all costs ADA, uttered those immortal words, "Make a Deal." 

Nice that they're acknowledging McCoy and Anita as the oldtimers and making it seem like they've been friends a long time.


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