# Worst TV stations



## Link

What are some TV stations you think are the absolute worst on the air today??

One of the most pathetic broadcast stations I have ever seen is Sinclair's KDNL 30 in St. Louis. The station just plain sucks for a large market affiliate. The station got the ABC affiliation in the early 90s when KTVI went with Fox as part of the New World deal. KNDL attempted a local news operation at 5 and 10 that failed. The ratings are pathetically low under all other St. Louis stations. I'm seriously surprised they don't just fold in the market. St. Louis viewers would be better off receving a distant ABC station from Chicago or New York rather than to get this channel.


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## FTA Michael

To put it into perspective, the worst network affiliate is still better than the best shopping channel. And every one of those shopping channels gets the same must-carry protection as any other broadcast station. 

But there are lots of horror stories about bad network affiliates, and those are the stations fighting hardest to prevent distant signals from entering their markets. It's like having the only bar at the airport -- you can have awful service and still make a lot of money if you're the only game in town.


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## CopyChief

When I saw this thread title, I figured I'm chime in with Channel 30. Apparently, we're on the same page. I would hate to see a network affiliate leave St. Louis... after all, cable and satellite penetration is really low here for a major market. We can hope that Sinclair sells ABC and another company comes in, willing to invest a little (try some better graphics and weather-warning technology). St. Louis is a fiercly loyal news town so it would be hard for a startup to succeed... but they've got to do something to generate interest in the station. I don't think Sinclair will be the one to do it...


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## SimpleSimon

*KRDO (Colorado Springs ABC affiliate) SUCKS!*


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## derwin0

tell us how you really feel about KRDO... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Spruceman

WHSV (*W*e're the most *H*orrible *S*tation in *V*irginia) and WDTV (*W*est Virginia *D*ork *TV*).


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## midnight75

I think that it's a toss up what the worst channels are: shopping channels, or those mix channels.


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## Bill R

Link said:


> What are some TV stations you think are the absolute worst on the air today??


The big three (ABC, NBC, and CBS) in Cincinnati.

WCPO (ABC) prempts many of the ABC shows (usually with Billy Graham re-runs).

It seems that everytime I tune in to see the evening weather on WKRC (CBS) the weatherman is doing a cooking show and he gives just a "token" weather report. The rest of the newscast suffers because he takes so much time with the cooking stuff.

WLWT (NBC) is just a really poor local station. Their local news is a joke - quite often they don't report big stories in our area and if it doesn't happen IN Cincinnati it is given very limited or no coverage (the Cincinnati DMA covers a much wider area than just Cincinnati). They must have a revolving door on their newsroom. It seems that they change anchors, weather people, and news directors at least once a year.


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## MarkA

KMMF FOX Missoula - though they've fixed their terrible picture quality under pressure from the cable company. They're still far from ideal though. I'm glad I can get KAYU Spokane (a local translator obviously, somewhere around Bigfork I think - it's Ch. 44 - maybe someone else knows where it is. Antennaweb doesn't know about it but lists a couple channels that don't exist!) here in Kalispell, though the cable company doesn't carry it. In Missoula itself there is no choice, boo...


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## chaddux

I'm going to have go with the single broadcast team behind *KFXK (Fox 51)* and *KLPN/KTPN (UPN 54/58/48)* in Tyler, TX. Although we don't currently receive the UPN station, on Fox 51, you can regularly see the video start rewinding while still on the air, video jumps, audio loss, the Fox 51 logo remaining in the lower right corner during commercials, commercials promoting an episode of a show that has already aired earlier in the day (ie, a commercial airing at 10:00 saying "American Idol tonight at 7:00"), starting a commercial while a character is in midsentence and then continuing the episode with the rest of that sentence, showing part of an episode and then switching to a completely different episode mid-stream, re-airing of the same episode on back-to-back days, and, of course, the terrible video quality ("pulsing" lines, static, reversed color, no color, etc). There is the same quality on DISH as was on cable so it's just a problem with the station.


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## Digital Madman

WFXI/WYDO FOX affiliates in Eastern NC. They have the poorest signals I have ever known. 8 is squeezed in between 7 and 9 and is on a 500' tower on the edge of the ocean. SIgnal is impossible 50 miles from the tower. 14 is also on about a 500' tower and is impossible 40 miles from Greenville NC. The station also goes out due to a STL issue several times a day... They do not put out a digital signal and do not expect to make it on air before the transition deadline. 8 has a STA for digital that you cannot receive outside the Morehead City area. Most people get their FOX stations from 26 in Wilmington or 50 from Raleigh...


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## Lyle_JP

KRON channel 4 here in SF is beyond pathetic since they lost their NBC affiliation. They don't even carry any local sports to make them worthwhile. It's unimaginable that in a top-5 market there is a high-powered VHF station with third-rate UHF-style programming!


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## Link

Lyle_JP said:


> KRON channel 4 here in SF is beyond pathetic since they lost their NBC affiliation. They don't even carry any local sports to make them worthwhile. It's unimaginable that in a top-5 market there is a high-powered VHF station with third-rate UHF-style programming!


I could not agree more just by looking at KRON's schedule, it stinks. The only worthwhile shows they have on are Enteratainment Tonight, The Insider, and Dr. Phil. I am surprised KPIX didn't outbid them for all those shows since most CBS O&Os carry them. They expanded their local news coverage but are still in 4th place behind KGO, KPIX, KNTV, and KTVU.

KRON really should have become the NBC O&O in the market. They would have improved their schedule and local news coverage. Under Chronicle Broadcasting, they were a horrible NBC station always pre-empting network daytime shows for other stuff. Now as an independent they are even worse. You would think they could at least affiilate with UPN or WB or carry local sports to gain viewers.


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## stonecold

Here are some bad ones in the Tampa/St Pete DMA

1. WWSB Channel 40 ABC - A channel that does not cover the whole tampa bay market any more. Back in the 90s with the big network change up when most channels ended up changing network afflilation. ABC had inked a deal with WFTV 28 to be the new ABC station though the contract with channel 40 was not up. So When all was said in done We had 2 ABC stations 28/40 ABC wanted the whole thing to go away channel 40 filed in court, and won. So Tampa bay now has a DMA inside a DMA. Channel 40 is not allow to trans mit outside the Sarasota Bradenton area . They are not allowd to increased broadcast strenght to make it in to st pete /tampa. Problem is that no satellite company wanted to touch channel 40 it is a legal mess on and the extra effort of speparating where the fcc defines channel 40s brodcast line. So channel 40 has been turned into a comcast propganda machine. Making it the worst in the market. 


The reglious channels are pretty bad.

Channel 32 ( just a lousy indie )

channel 38 ( WB enough said)

channel 44 ( upn station no news)

50 ( use to be the HSN ) ( now a mexican channel) ( it was funny watching hsn on braodcast tv for those who dod not know HSN is based out of tampa)

66 ( univision enought said)

Ok now for the good channels

8 ( nbc )
10 (cbs)
13 (fox)
28 (the other abc)

All have good news weather. and do not interfer with network programing


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## music_beans

Here are the worst locals in Sioux Falls, SD:

1: KTTW (Fox) - A complete second-rate operation. Often times their commercial breaks come on late, they have cheap computer graphics, and well, you know

I could include KWSD (WB) since it is just a carbon copy of the WB channel on cable, but I think its a good station.


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## Phil T

KDEN Channel 25 Longmont, CO a full power station that is nothing but shopping and infommercials. What a waste.


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## rocatman

I vote for any local channel that spends a significant part of their news broadcast promoting programming especially national reality programming and treat it as news. The Fox Network in Cleveland, Ohio is like this. I call this the Paul Harvey effect who has made it an art to make his commericals sound like the "Rest of the Story" on the radio. No wonder why so many local station have expanded the length of their "news". They just fill the time with promoting their programming instead of doing real journalism. I rarely watch the local news because of this practice.


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## nrholland

stonecold said:


> Here are some bad ones in the Tampa/St Pete DMA
> 
> 1. WWSB Channel 40 ABC - A channel that does not cover the whole tampa bay market any more. Back in the 90s with the big network change up when most channels ended up changing network afflilation. ABC had inked a deal with WFTV 28 to be the new ABC station though the contract with channel 40 was not up. So When all was said in done We had 2 ABC stations 28/40 ABC wanted the whole thing to go away channel 40 filed in court, and won. So Tampa bay now has a DMA inside a DMA. Channel 40 is not allow to trans mit outside the Sarasota Bradenton area . They are not allowd to increased broadcast strenght to make it in to st pete /tampa. Problem is that no satellite company wanted to touch channel 40 it is a legal mess on and the extra effort of speparating where the fcc defines channel 40s brodcast line. So channel 40 has been turned into a comcast propganda machine. Making it the worst in the market.
> 
> The reglious channels are pretty bad.
> 
> Channel 32 ( just a lousy indie )
> 
> channel 38 ( WB enough said)
> 
> channel 44 ( upn station no news)
> 
> 50 ( use to be the HSN ) ( now a mexican channel) ( it was funny watching hsn on braodcast tv for those who dod not know HSN is based out of tampa)
> 
> 66 ( univision enought said)
> 
> Ok now for the good channels
> 
> 8 ( nbc )
> 10 (cbs)
> 13 (fox)
> 28 (the other abc)
> 
> All have good news weather. and do not interfer with network programing


It's WFTS, Ch. 28 in Tampa. WFTV is Ch. 9, the ABC affiliate in Orlando. I would like to see Ch. 40 (ABC7 as they call it now) on satellite.

66 is WXPX, the local PAX affiliate. Ch. 62 is the Univision station.


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## Paul Secic

Lyle_JP said:


> KRON channel 4 here in SF is beyond pathetic since they lost their NBC affiliation. They don't even carry any local sports to make them worthwhile. It's unimaginable that in a top-5 market there is a high-powered VHF station with third-rate UHF-style programming!


What do you expect from Young Broadcasting? They're CHEAP! I agree with you KRON4 as they call it now, is at an UHF channel status. It's sad!


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## KingLoop

In the Flint, Michigan market, it seem that all of the Network affiliates with the exception of ABC suck. I live in metro Detroit and my father live in a Flint market. I visit sometimes and their line-ups are unbearable. CBS 5, FOX 66, and NBC 25... they don't have UPN or a WB affiliates.


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## lacruz

In Jacksonville, FL, WJXT/4 (Ind) is pretty bad. They lost their CBS affiliation about 3 years ago and have since tried to sell themselves as a local news station. Problem is, that's about all they have to offer....similar to the KRON/4 station in SF (above). They also have ET, Dr. Phil, & Oprah. They have infomercials during the day and reruns of Andy Griffith Show & King of Queens during thier primetime hours. Jacksonville is a no-news market (#54 market in US, I think), so how the station survives with 8 hours of news programming during the day is beyond me. It got so bad for them last year that they started subscribing to "UPN" hand-me-downs like the UPN weekend movie and Twilight Zone reruns. (We have no UPN affiliate in Jax).

As far as News goes, FOX 30/WAWS is lousy. The news quality is on par with the type you might see produced by a local high school. (I am embarrassed that this Station advertised itself as "Super Bowl Central" during the Super Bowl here in February. No wonder all of the out-of-towners think we are a bunch of backwoods hicks)....


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## Paul Secic

Link said:


> I could not agree more just by looking at KRON's schedule, it stinks. The only worthwhile shows they have on are Enteratainment Tonight, The Insider, and Dr. Phil. I am surprised KPIX didn't outbid them for all those shows since most CBS O&Os carry them. They expanded their local news coverage but are still in 4th place behind KGO, KPIX, KNTV, and KTVU.
> 
> KRON really should have become the NBC O&O in the market. They would have improved their schedule and local news coverage. Under Chronicle Broadcasting, they were a horrible NBC station always pre-empting network daytime shows for other stuff. Now as an independent they are even worse. You would think they could at least affiilate with UPN or WB or carry local sports to gain viewers.


Our UPN station is owned by KPIX CBS 5. Even UPN could help KRON a bit. The WB station has been for sale since 2001. Granite Broadcasting sold KNTV to NBC & owns KBWB the WB affiliate.


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## Paul Secic

Phil T said:


> KDEN Channel 25 Longmont, CO a full power station that is nothing but shopping and infommercials. What a waste.


Channel 38 in San Francisco carries Shop at Home 24/7. Gene Scot the late preacher owned this channel. 38 isn't on Dishnetwork so I don't know the calls. Strong signal though. In the 60's when it came on with all live shows, we had no problems receiving their signal even with a loop antena. KUDO were the first call letters.


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## stonecold

nrholland said:


> It's WFTS, Ch. 28 in Tampa. WFTV is Ch. 9, the ABC affiliate in Orlando. I would like to see Ch. 40 (ABC7 as they call it now) on satellite.
> 
> 66 is WXPX, the local PAX affiliate. Ch. 62 is the Univision station.


Yeap your right I ment 62. I should now better as 66 is pax and I often watch some shows on pax.

It is hard to remember numbers some times as I use my 7200 s most of the time. which does not do the channel remaping.


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## eastern oregon

This thread intrigued me enough to do some informal Father's day research into my own DMA, Yakima, WA with Dish network.

Using the epg on my 522 I totaled up various categories of programming for each local station in my DMA. I used the time period of 11:00AM Sunday June 19th until 10:30AM Tuesday June 21st(I got tired at this point so didn't continue for a longer period).

My categories of programming included:
1. paid programming.
2. locally or regionally(Pacific northwest) produced or syndicated variety, news, and sports. This category is the reason the FCC claims we need these local affiliates.
3. nationally syndicated variety or network repeats from earlier in the programming day. Available on any distant net.
4. network news variety, soap operas, sports, etc. Available on any distant net.
5. station off air

Our 2 local PBS affiliates taken together spend 96% of their time rebroadcasting nationally syndicated shows, 3% of their time showing locally produced programming, and 1% of their time off the air. Not exactly a huge commitment to the local community. We can get this from the national PBS feed.

Now on to our four local networks.

KAPP-ABC
KIMA-CBS
KNDU-NBC
KCYU-FOX

Taken together these four 'local' stations spend 11% of their broadcast time doing paid programming, 8% of the day off the air, 35% of their time showing national syndicated programming, 40% of their time showing pure network feed, and a huge 6% of their broadcast time showing 'local' programming. note that these stations taken together spend more time showing paid programming then local programming and also more time off the air than showing local programming.

Again, a huge commitment to the local community.

Winners and losers.

1. Huge Winner! KNDU-NBC for spending 15% of their broadcast time showing locally originating programming, never going off the air, and only 1% of their broadcast time showing paid programming. Go Team!!!

2. Paid programming loser. KCYU-Fox shows paid programming for 33% of it's broadcast day and only has less than 1% of it's programming originating locally.
They must think we watch local broadcast stations for the local commercials. Their commercials are not even local to those of us here in Oregon.
Not exactly a huge commitment to the local community.

3. Off the air losers. KAPP-ABC and KIMA-CBS are tied as losers in this category.
KAPP spends 16% of the day off the air and KIMA spends 14% of the day off the air.

4. Local content losers. KCYU spends less than 1% of it's broadcast time on local content. KAPP spends less than 3% of it's time broadcasting local content.


Altogether this is not a convincing argument as to the absolute requirement for local broadcast stations.

Cheers and happy Father's day


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## Link

Lyle_JP said:


> KRON channel 4 here in SF is beyond pathetic since they lost their NBC affiliation. They don't even carry any local sports to make them worthwhile. It's unimaginable that in a top-5 market there is a high-powered VHF station with third-rate UHF-style programming!


Young Broadcasting needs to sell KRON to Tribune and make it a full WB superstation like KTLA in Los Angeles. That way the station could do local morning news and a 10pm newscast with better syndicated programming on throughout the day and evening.


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## Paul Secic

Link said:


> Young Broadcasting needs to sell KRON to Tribune and make it a full WB superstation like KTLA in Los Angeles. That way the station could do local morning news and a 10pm newscast with better syndicated programming on throughout the day and evening.


I think Young still wants eight hundred million for KRON. That station isn't worth that now. Thats why NBC didn't buy it.


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## Link

Paul Secic said:


> I think Young still wants eight hundred million for KRON. That station isn't worth that now. Thats why NBC didn't buy it.


Some of Tribune's recent large market aquisitions included WTTV 4 in Indianapolis and KPLR 11 in St. Louis. I wonder what they paid for those stations, although San Francisco is the 5th or 6th largest market I believe.


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## Paul Secic

Link said:


> Some of Tribune's recent large market aquisitions included WTTV 4 in Indianapolis and KPLR 11 in St. Louis. I wonder what they paid for those stations, although San Francisco is the 5th or 6th largest market I believe.


Kurt the cyberguy appears on KRON'S morning news sometimes. Is he national, or is this a sign of better days for KRON?


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## Lance Advance

Paul Secic said:


> Channel 38 in San Francisco carries Shop at Home 24/7. Gene Scot the late preacher owned this channel.


Say it isn't so! Seems the good Doctor still wants to talk:

http://www.drgenescott.com/talk.htm

EDIT: Holy [email protected], it's true:

http://thomashawk.com/2005/02/dr-gene-scott-dead-at-75.html

LA


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## TonyM

Lets see…….

KDUL TV 12 in Duluth

Didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell to begin with. They were UPN/AIN (American Independent Network)
Problem was Duluth already had KMSP (when they were UPN before switching to FOX) on cable in Duluth. 
KDUL was licensed for 502 watts, due to Ch 12 in Rhinelander, WI and Ch 12 in Walker, MN being close to it…..then some genius blew up ½ the transmitter so they were at 256 watts for their life. That didn’t even cover Duluth

They were able to get on cable on Channel 16…so they were able to trump KMSP on cable (KMSP would be blacked out during UPN programming)

Only one problem…..KDUL signal sucked
-it had lines in the picture
-sound would go out
-picture would go B&W
-commercials very rarely were inserted right
-they’d cut off shows early (like a minute early for a commercial)

AIN programming was basically real old movies (those bad B&W films)

The KMSP feed would be fine but we couldn’t see it…..finally with enough people complaining, they lifted the blackout on KMSP 

The death blow was when Charter (the cable company) told them they were pulling the station off the air in 30 days (which would have been Sept 15th). They closed up shop on 8/30/01, less than 11 months on air.


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## homeskillet

IN TOPEKA DMA

11 KTWU (PBS)

** One of the great PBS stations in the country. They keep to the PBS schedule pretty well, and produce great local programming like Sunflower Journey's (Kansas travel and history show) and iStudio which is a show about local independent films. KTWU is even popular in the Kansas City DMA.

13 WIBW (CBS)

** The television leader in Topeka. #1 in News, Weather Coverage, Sports. Was the first station in the area (including Kansas City) to go full power HD and almost 2 years head of Kansas City CBS. Only station in the market with a Satellite Uplink truck. Only Live Dopplar Radar in Topeka television.

27 KSNT (NBC)

** Second fiddle to WIBW. Does a good job with News, Weather Coverage. In the process of building a live Nexrad weather tower. Signal is hard to receive outside of Topeka area. Has had some financial problems (Emmis owner) recent years... currently for sale.

43 KTMJ-LP (FOX)

** When the rat at the transmitter gets up to full speed, it maybe covers the entire capital city. This low power station has 3 other low power repeaters in various cities in the Topeka DMA. Often has audio problems, and at one time they used to show the FOX Sunday movie on.... Tuesdays! Really poor picture quality at times and no news or weather.

49 KTKA (ABC)

** This station has had financial problems and even had a transmitter fire that nearly put them off the air in the 1980's. Has held on through bad ownership and was recently sold to the World Company in Lawrence, KS. Has the most powerful television signal in Kansas but pisses it away with no local news, some canned weather that I swear college kids are doing. Used to have a great news team until they were all fired in 1998 and the station dropped all news and weather. I expect the new owners when they take control of this station to take the news and weather departments towards the top to give WIBW a run for their money. World Company currently owns Channel 6 News in Lawrence, as well as Sunflower Broadband and the Lawrence Journal-World newspaper. www.ljworld.com


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## Paul Secic

Lance Advance said:


> Say it isn't so! Seems the good Doctor still wants to talk:
> 
> http://www.drgenescott.com/talk.htm
> 
> EDIT: Holy [email protected], it's true:
> 
> http://thomashawk.com/2005/02/dr-gene-scott-dead-at-75.html
> 
> LA


I think the guy died 3 or 4 years ago. He was streaming video on the Web.


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## videobruce

Anything that has to do with "the WB"!
Like OMG, Kiddie stuff for sure.


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## jamieh1

Greenville Washington New Bern NC's FOX

WYDO/WFXI 8/14
takes a double to cover this market, cant even have a good analog picture , snowy, bad color.
Digital cant even get it going, finally up on low power on WFXI 8, keep extending Digital transition.

GOT TO BE THE WORST!


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## Mike500

*Those owned by Sinclair!

You have to listen to this guy named Mark Hyman. They were the ones who wished to dishonor our soldiers killed in Iraq by refusing to broadcast Ted Koppel's roll call of the killed in action.*


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## Cholly

Most Fox affiliates! Although Fox has the Simpsons and good sports programming, a great portion of the daily fare is infomercials.


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## lacruz

Paul Secic said:


> Kurt the cyberguy appears on KRON'S morning news sometimes. Is he national, or is this a sign of better days for KRON?


No, he is based out of KTLA in Los Angeles. Appears via satellite on some Tribune owned Superstation Morning Shows (KTLA/LA, WGN/Chicago, KWGN/Denver, & sometimes on WPIX/NYC.


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## jamieh1

Forgot one on my post for Washington Greenville New Bern NC

Add DIRECTVs feed for UPN(48) on ch 13

The channel is only in digital over the air, directv carries it.
You can not watch it, every 2-3 minutes it freezes and then green lines
go thru the picture.its been this way ever since it launched last Nov.


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## Digital Madman

Fox in Eastern NC has two votes! So we without a shadow of a doubt win this pole!


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## plaidbunny

Link said:


> Young Broadcasting needs to sell KRON to Tribune and make it a full WB superstation like KTLA in Los Angeles. That way the station could do local morning news and a 10pm newscast with better syndicated programming on throughout the day and evening.


One quote said that "KRON doesn't even show local sports" which they DO. They even have a high-school sports show AND Sports Final.

This quote about making KRON a "WB superstation" is lame. First, there is already a WB affiliate in the Bay Area. Second, WB has terrible programming. You also talk about local morning news... uhhh... KRON has a GREAT morning news show from 5am-10am during the week, and a top rated weekend morning news on both saturdays and sundays. Plus they are the only station to do a 9pm newscast... why would they WANT to be like everyone else with a 10pm?

As for better syndications, I heard that KRON's getting Sex and the City and Alias soon.


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## Lyle_JP

> One quote said that "KRON doesn't even show local sports" which they DO. They even have a high-school sports show AND Sports Final.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do you work for KRON? Because that is spin if I've ever heard it! When I refer to local sports in the Bay Area, I think it's pretty clear that I'm talking about the A's, the Giants, the Raiders, the 49ers, the Sharks, the Warriors, hell, even the Cal Bears and Stanford Cardinals. KRON has *none of these*. So they have _high school_ sports, well f*ck-a-doodle-doo.  And Sports Final is just one more sports-talk show, which is already done to death on every other channel plus cable (where it's done best).

On the other hand, I agree that the WB would be, at best, a sideways move for KRON, not a step up. But you can forget about their news. The 9:00 news ratings are in the toilet (in fact, they're worse than when TV-20 tried to do a nightly newscast), and their 11:00 news is in fourth place. They don't even dare try a 10:00 newscast because they know that KTVU will evicerate them. Their "great morning news" is already being eaten alive by KTVU every morning.

Their only hope for ratings at this point would be to show soft-core stuff from Skinemax every night (at least until the FCC finds out).


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## Fastman

I have to agree with KDNL 30 in St. Louis. --Sinclair


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## R_R

Lyle_JP said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> On the other hand, I agree that the WB would be, at best, a sideways move for KRON, not a step up. But you can forget about their news. The 9:00 news ratings are in the toilet (in fact, they're worse than when TV-20 tried to do a nightly newscast), and their 11:00 news is in fourth place. They don't even dare try a 10:00 newscast because they know that KTVU will evicerate them. Their "great morning news" is already being eaten alive by KTVU every morning.


WB would be a step up. It is some primetime lead-in, and is advertise-able. It's especially something for a heritage VHF (or low cable #) station that already does news.

Besides Chicago and a few markets, most markets don't have successful independents from the main market itself.

The indy station WCIU benefits being in a market with 2 baseball teams, and being in the Central Time Zone (where each network affiliate loses an hour of daytime syndicated programming vs. an East or West coast station) where the indy can pick up more programming. Otherwise, there is justt enough syndicated or commercial broadcast programming to be spread for 6 stations as its in most major markets: ABC NBC CBS Fox WB and UPN.


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## Paul Secic

lacruz said:


> No, he is based out of KTLA in Los Angeles. Appears via satellite on some Tribune owned Superstation Morning Shows (KTLA/LA, WGN/Chicago, KWGN/Denver, & sometimes on WPIX/NYC.


I get KTLA and I watch The Morning News daily.


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## Paul Secic

BayareaTV?


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## Paul Secic

Lyle_JP said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Do you work for KRON? Because that is spin if I've ever heard it! When I refer to local sports in the Bay Area, I think it's pretty clear that I'm talking about the A's, the Giants, the Raiders, the 49ers, the Sharks, the Warriors, hell, even the Cal Bears and Stanford Cardinals. KRON has *none of these*. So they have _high school_ sports, well f*ck-a-doodle-doo.  And Sports Final is just one more sports-talk show, which is already done to death on every other channel plus cable (where it's done best).
> 
> On the other hand, I agree that the WB would be, at best, a sideways move for KRON, not a step up. But you can forget about their news. The 9:00 news ratings are in the toilet (in fact, they're worse than when TV-20 tried to do a nightly newscast), and their 11:00 news is in fourth place. They don't even dare try a 10:00 newscast because they know that KTVU will evicerate them. Their "great morning news" is already being eaten alive by KTVU every morning.
> 
> Their only hope for ratings at this point would be to show soft-core stuff from Skinemax every night (at least until the FCC finds out).


Lyle

I think I know this guy. He works for KRON and when they lost NBC he posted on YAHOO talking about NBC buying KRON 2 years after buying KNTV.


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## JoeDuncan

rocatman said:


> I vote for any local channel that spends a significant part of their news broadcast promoting programming especially national reality programming and treat it as news. The Fox Network in Cleveland, Ohio is like this. I call this the Paul Harvey effect who has made it an art to make his commericals sound like the "Rest of the Story" on the radio. No wonder why so many local station have expanded the length of their "news". They just fill the time with promoting their programming instead of doing real journalism. I rarely watch the local news because of this practice.


CBS19 (KYTX) here in Tyler, TX spends too much time promoting CBS shows on their news. They usually waste an entire package promoting CSI or Rockstar INXS. The station manager sometimes has "Forum Commentaries" after the news where he gives his opinion on local issues.

The ABC, NBC, and FOX here are pretty good. They only run cellomercials late at night, don't break into programming much, and have good newscasts.


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## Nick

If you folks think your locals are bad now, wait 'til digiitals get really cranked up and the NAB's multicast must-carry kicks in. Your sat EPG and the painfully-slow TVGuide analog cable SCROLLLLLL will be absolutely cluttered with a multiplicity of garbage program listings, each of which will be an ad blurb in its own right.


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## BearsFan

lacruz said:


> In Jacksonville, FL, WJXT/4 (Ind) is pretty bad. They lost their CBS affiliation about 3 years ago and have since tried to sell themselves as a local news station. Problem is, that's about all they have to offer....similar to the KRON/4 station in SF (above). They also have ET, Dr. Phil, & Oprah. They have infomercials during the day and reruns of Andy Griffith Show & King of Queens during thier primetime hours. Jacksonville is a no-news market (#54 market in US, I think), so how the station survives with 8 hours of news programming during the day is beyond me. It got so bad for them last year that they started subscribing to "UPN" hand-me-downs like the UPN weekend movie and Twilight Zone reruns. (We have no UPN affiliate in Jax).
> 
> As far as News goes, FOX 30/WAWS is lousy. The news quality is on par with the type you might see produced by a local high school. (I am embarrassed that this Station advertised itself as "Super Bowl Central" during the Super Bowl here in February. No wonder all of the out-of-towners think we are a bunch of backwoods hicks)....


I lived in Jacksonville for 3 years, and I totally concur about WAWS-Fox 30. I worked in the same building with the 2 crap Clear Channel stations (CBS 47 was the other...before that 47 was UPN 47). Fox 30 had *THE* worst news ever.

Truthfully, my wife and I would _literally_ turn on the Fox 30 News @ 10 for *laughs*. We'd always get at least a few chuckles. Does Fox 30 still air UPN shows? I HATED when they aired _Star Trek: Voyager_ or _Enterprise_, as they ALWAYS seemed to have transmission/recording prolems (audio drop-outs, pixellated screens, etc.) during those shows. And, they *never showed the next week's previews!* That drove me nuts, and is further proof why Fox 30 could be run better by my 1-month-old son instead of the doofuses that run it now.

CBS 47 in Jax was no better...they got a *slight* edge over their poor [email protected]@rd son's Fox 30, but not much.

Channel 4 went downhill as you mentioned also. I do remember seeing live, though, that "Adam..." oh, what's his name...get hit over the head with a drunken lady's purse during a live shoot at Jax Beach! LOL! That was classic.



> The big three (ABC, NBC, and CBS) in Cincinnati.
> 
> WCPO (ABC) prempts many of the ABC shows (usually with Billy Graham re-runs).
> 
> It seems that everytime I tune in to see the evening weather on WKRC (CBS) the weatherman is doing a cooking show and he gives just a "token" weather report. The rest of the newscast suffers because he takes so much time with the cooking stuff.
> 
> WLWT (NBC) is just a really poor local station. Their local news is a joke - quite often they don't report big stories in our area and if it doesn't happen IN Cincinnati it is given very limited or no coverage (the Cincinnati DMA covers a much wider area than just Cincinnati). They must have a revolving door on their newsroom. It seems that they change anchors, weather people, and news directors at least once a year.


I visit Cincinnati several times a year, and I don't find Cincy locals to be _*that*_ horrible...but I agree, that one weather guy on 'KRC is a dillrod. I remember the days of "Ken Broo" and icon-like status, which still perplexes me to this day. Star 64 was an interesting channel at one time too. WCPO is one of the only watchable channels for me when I'm in Cincy.

I didn't watch a ton of local late news in Jax, or when I'm in Cincy...I *hate* the Eastern Time Zone/8pm primetime start/11pm local news.

When I lived in Lansing, MI, their ABC (ABC 53) affiliate was deplorable. A 10-minute "news express" show was all the local news they could muster. Laughable. Their CBS affiliate was "meh." WLNS-6 had the best local weather team IMHO. All their other channels were forgettable.

Now in Chicago, the worst channel? Tough call. There really aren't any "overall" horrible channels, just dumb things on some channels...like ABC7's food critic "James Ward" (Doofus Royale), basically the entire CBS 2's news team (cold-sore ridden Diann Burns, smug Antonio Mora, and dillrod "weatherman" Steve Baskerville). NBC5's seemingly chronic penchant for hiring talent with potentially suggestive names ("Pete Sack," "Dick Johnson"...seriously, those are their _*real*_ names). At least ABC7's Joel Daly hung it up...he was rotten. Now if we could just get WGN's Robert "Bob" Jordan to call it a career...


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## akron05

carload said:


> To put it into perspective, the worst network affiliate is still better than the best shopping channel. And every one of those shopping channels gets the same must-carry protection as any other broadcast station.
> 
> But there are lots of horror stories about bad network affiliates, and those are the stations fighting hardest to prevent distant signals from entering their markets. It's like having the only bar at the airport -- you can have awful service and still make a lot of money if you're the only game in town.


Many independent stations licensed to more outlying cities within a DMA that used to play good sitcom reruns and old movies are now 24 hour shop at home crap.

Just how many home shopping channels does one need??


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## UTFAN

SimpleSimon said:


> *KRDO (Colorado Springs ABC affiliate) SUCKS!*


Never watched, but they have a most interesting reputation along the front range.

Apparently the owenrship feels they can use the news department to air any gripe or grievance they have.

One time I heard, the owner's daughter had some hassle (perceived) with a local pizze place, so they ordered the news department to go down and do an "expose."

And if they don't agree with you politically, no coverage for you!


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## KyL416

WWOR-TV is good, for the most part, except when they decide to interrupt their programming for any Fox News special report. This morning because of the transit strike, the decided to carry the entire Good Day NY newscast from WNYW, even though absolutely no one watches their station in the morning for News.


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## Link

Is it not worth it for networks to work to build up operations in large markets that were affected from the 1990s New World switch to Fox??

For instance in Detroit, CBS bought UHF station WWJ-TV 62. They have no local news operation in a large DMA. Is it not worth it for CBS to try to build a news organization??

KDNL ABC 30 in St. Louis is beyond pathetic and one of the lowest rated ABC stations in the country. Could ABC not fold on its contract with KDNL to startup a new station in the St. Louis area that could be stronger and more profitable??


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## KyL416

WWOR isn't building up _their_ news organization by doing that. They are just "leeching" off WNYW and Fox with no benefit to their news operations in New Jersey.


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## Link

KyL416 said:


> WWOR isn't building up _their_ news organization by doing that. They are just "leeching" off WNYW and Fox with no benefit to their news operations in New Jersey.


Why do the two stations have competing newscasts at 10pm anyway????


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## derwin0

Link said:


> Why do the two stations have competing newscasts at 10pm anyway????


Good question.
In the Harrisburg market, jointly owed WHP(CBS) and WLYH(UPN) share the same news crew, but broadcast at different times, WLYH at 10:00pm and WHP at 11:00pm.


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## rnbmusicfan

Link said:


> Why do the two stations have competing newscasts at 10pm anyway????


It's probably been assessed that ratings are high enough for both stations to keep news so they are viable, and both newscasts are profitable.

To me, it is kinda like why TJX Companies owns both Marshall's and TJMaxx, with similar coverage area with no intention to convert down to one name or offering, even though both are offering a similar product. Both are off price stores. Co-owned AJ Wright is differentiated as more downscale of the others.

UPN9 News also keeps WPIX 11 (WB) news ratings in check and lower, as a third choice diverts followers from only two newscasts.

With news, it's also a token effort to keep WWOR, brought up in heated discussion sometimes because of its city of license changing from WOR-NY to a NJ town(WWOR-Secaucus) by a tie-in to some law to assuage people who want NJ TV, with some local identity, even though WWOR 9 ends up still being a NYC station. Doubt though NewsCorp. cares about obligations for local identity. Seems it's on the air more on profit viability, as described in my first paragraph.

If Viacom/CBS co-owned WWOR, Dr.Phil would probably be running at 10PM instead, like it is in Boston and Philly.


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## TonyM

derwin0 said:


> Good question.
> In the Harrisburg market, jointly owed WHP(CBS) and WLYH(UPN) share the same news crew, but broadcast at different times, WLYH at 10:00pm and WHP at 11:00pm.


same in Duluth (sort of)
KBJR (NBC) and KDLH (CBS) are one in the same (after the shared services thing took place)
KBJR has news at 5,6,10
KDLH has news at 5:30 and a 8 minute news/weather at 10

Different news person but same weather/sports people


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## Link

ravi said:


> With news, it's also a token effort to keep WWOR, brought up in heated discussion sometimes because of its city of license changing from WOR-NY to a NJ town(WWOR-Secaucus) by a tie-in to some law to assuage people who want NJ TV, with some local identity, even though WWOR 9 ends up still being a NYC station. Doubt though NewsCorp. cares about obligations for local identity. Seems it's on the air more on profit viability, as described in my first paragraph.
> 
> If Viacom/CBS co-owned WWOR, Dr.Phil would probably be running at 10PM instead, like it is in Boston and Philly.


Yeah true with Dr. Phil. I had heard that Fox O&O stations were experimenting with doing an 11pm newscast in addition to 10pm with Tampa's WTVT Fox 13 currently being the test market with Fox 13 News The Edge at 11pm.

It seems like such a big competition for stations to provide more and more news. I remember in the 80s when most stations didn't even run a morning or midday newscast just evening and late news. Then in the 1990s more stations began running 6am newscasts and midday newscasts. Today, stations start their newscasts at 5am with some even starting at 4:30am now with one hour midday newscasts.


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## Paul Secic

Link said:


> Young Broadcasting needs to sell KRON to Tribune and make it a full WB superstation like KTLA in Los Angeles. That way the station could do local morning news and a 10pm newscast with better syndicated programming on throughout the day and evening.


Link: Young wants $800.000 for KRON! The dopes never get it. Reporters have been leaving the station droves.


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## Link

Paul Secic said:


> Link: Young wants $800.000 for KRON! The dopes never get it. Reporters have been leaving the station droves.


They paid too much for it to begin with when the Chronicle sold the station and then lost out on the NBC affiliation when NBC in a smart move put the NBC affiliation at KNTV then bought it and moved the transmitter further north in the Bay Area--a move that KRON fought.

Today, KRON is a failing independent station with only Dr. Phil and Entertainment Tonight as leading syndicated programming--which I will probably go to KPIX down the line since most CBS O&Os already air ET and the whole station group is getting Dr. Phil over the next 2 years.

KRON tries to provide more extensive news coverage but still is last behind KPIX, KGO, KNTV, and KTVU.


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## videobruce

Any station that is religious and an affilate of WB!


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## billpa

derwin0 said:


> Good question.
> In the Harrisburg market, jointly owed WHP(CBS) and WLYH(UPN) share the same news crew, but broadcast at different times, WLYH at 10:00pm and WHP at 11:00pm.


WLYH hasn't had news at ten (or at another time, for that matter) for quite some time.


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## derwin0

sorry to see they dumped it, oh well, I prefer Waggle anyway :grin:

from http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/5014/hburgtv.html
"WLYH and WHP are now under one roof due to a LMA which allows Clear Channel owned WHP to control Gateway owned WLYH. Together, they call their news the "Eyewitness News Network". Lancaster/Lebanon's WLYH is a UPN station which switched from CBS on December 18, 1995. Central PA used to have two CBS affiliates, WLYH for Lancaster and Lebanon and WHP for Harrisburg and York. WLYH used to produce it's own news program, "Action News" which only aired at 6:00 PM and 11:00 PM (The 11:00 PM news was dropped long before the 6:00 PM). *News has returned to WLYH with "Eyewitness News at 10*" WLYH still goes off the air around 1:30-2:00 AM daily and still broadcasts in mono. WHP was competing directly with WGAL and WHTM when they had morning, noon and a 5:00 PM newscast. Since then, they let go about half of their staff and news is now limited to 6:00 PM and 11:00 PM. What a shame, they were really showing potential! Unlike WGAL and WHTM, talent at WLYH/WHP seems to come and go. WHP has a really annoying white "WHP" bug that covers the CBS "eye" transparent bug when it comes up. There's no reason for that! WHP now operates 24 hours a day, but that was not the case only a few years ago."


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## billpa

That's all old now....No news on 15 (WLYH); WHP now has a local news block in the morning between 5 and 7am; one from 5-6:30pm and of course, 11-11:30...


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## DS0816

I'm in the Detroit market.

The worst station is WPXD, the I affiliate (formerly Pax Television). It, along with WADL (an independent station), shows nothing but home-shopping and one other thing: religion. WADL does double duty in local providing of Shop At Home (sometimes I swear it's been Jewelry Television -- maybe they've switched) and The Word programming.

Now do I get bugged by other locals? Well, WXYZ is a self-congratulatory ABC affiliate -- with a multi-Emmy-winning news team -- that inappropriately delays some regularly scheduled ABC programming (albeit, not the highest Nielsen performers) for locally produced fare. WXYZ is proud of itself. Ah, but whenever that happens, it makes me wish we all could have _two_ sets of locals (for me, Toledo, Ohio, would be the other; it is 40 or so miles south of my residence and easily transmitted -- if I were to have a roof-top antenna).

Years ago, WDIV, Detroit's NBC affiliate, used to do the same thing because it had Detroit Tigers broadcasts. A lot of Thursday-night NBC programming was delayed -- and rescheduling of shows like _Cheers_ and _Hill Street Blues_ would not be announced (usually I'd catch something in the middle of a Saturday or Sunday afternoon showing) -- and I was irate. Not a sports fan, I found myself having become very grateful for the launching, in 1997, of [_all_] regional Fox Sports Net.

WWJ, an independent station for years prior to 1994, is Detroit's CBS affiliate. It does _not_ have a local news program. This suprises me because I thought there were FCC rules, years ago established, requiring all broadcast network affiliates to have locally produced newscasts (of minimal broadcast time -- whatever the exacting details). I guess this has been _laxed_.

That about sums up the Detroit DMA from my perspective.


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## UTFAN

Link said:


> What are some TV stations you think are the absolute worst on the air today??
> 
> One of the most pathetic broadcast stations I have ever seen is Sinclair's KDNL 30 in St. Louis. The station just plain sucks for a large market affiliate. The station got the ABC affiliation in the early 90s when KTVI went with Fox as part of the New World deal. KNDL attempted a local news operation at 5 and 10 that failed. The ratings are pathetically low under all other St. Louis stations. I'm seriously surprised they don't just fold in the market. St. Louis viewers would be better off receving a distant ABC station from Chicago or New York rather than to get this channel.


Three worst television stations in America are:
KBMT-TV, Beaumont TX
KIII-TV, Corpus Cristi TX
KUSI-TV, San Diego CA

Honorable mention:
WMDT-TV, Salisbury MD

Congratulations to our winners!


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## topcats69

music_beans said:


> Here are the worst locals in Sioux Falls, SD:
> 
> 1: KTTW (Fox) - A complete second-rate operation. Often times their commercial breaks come on late, they have cheap computer graphics, and well, you know
> 
> I could include KWSD (WB) since it is just a carbon copy of the WB channel on cable, but I think its a good station.


KTTW is that one that looks like the graphics are from the 70's still??


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