# Software Release: HR20: DC Banter



## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

Ok do you guys do anything else other that force updates to your receivers; There is life out there you know


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mlobitz said:


> OTA... anyone, anyone...Bueller, Bueller...
> 
> I'd say the same for dual buffers, but please...


No...

Does anyone read the Release Notes?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No...
> 
> Does anyone read the Release Notes?


I read them before I even posted 

This is build #220 if anyone is keeping score.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jamielee said:


> Earl, I know you have got to have some sort of date for the ota, please pass it along, or atleast tell us what the problems are with it.
> 
> Also why is the sound effects option shaded and unavailable?


If I shared the date, it would be the last thing I would be able to share with you all.... seriously.. Even though I am under no formal, legal, NDA, or anything like... it is more of a handshake agreement.

Seriously though... It isn't much longer... I know you are all are dying for it.. and I promise.. the moment I can say... you will see a thread, just like the one for eSATA.

As for sound effects... Sound Effects don't work well over Digital Audio. So right now, they have opted to keep them disabled on the unit, until they can come back to that feature and make sure it won't cause any audio issues if they are enabled.


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## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If I shared the date, it would be the last thing I would be able to share with you all.... seriously.. Even though I am under no formal, legal, NDA, or anything like... it is more of a handshake agreement.
> 
> Seriously though... It isn't much longer... I know you are all are dying for it.. and I promise.. the moment I can say... you will see a thread, just like the one for eSATA.


M vote is still Oct 13.....though that is fast approaching....:lol:


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Earl can you atleast say if its this month?


Also what about the sound effects tab and it being disabled?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jamielee said:


> Earl can you atleast say if its this month?
> Also what about the sound effects tab and it being disabled?


Thread moves so darn fast.

1) No I can't say if it is going to be this month... The "Official" statement is before December 1st... but I am pretty sure it is going to be before that.

2) I did reply above... basically Sound Effects don't work well over digital audio, so they opted to disabled sound effects for now, and address it at a later time.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jamielee said:


> Earl can you atleast say if its this month?


Give it a rest. OTA is coming. No sense badgering Earl about it. I want it to but I haven't been able to record OTA HD for 4 years, another month or two ain't gonna kill me.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Give it a rest. OTA is coming. No sense badgering Earl about it. I want it to but I haven't been able to record OTA HD for 4 years, another month or two ain't gonna kill me.


Aye. It should become a rule that every person that asks Earl about OTA from this point on needs to buy him a beer.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Sorry


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## jlancaster (Feb 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Give it a rest. OTA is coming. No sense badgering Earl about it. I want it to but I haven't been able to record OTA HD for 4 years, another month or two ain't gonna kill me.


I agree enough already about ota (I don't have hd locals...) Thanks for all the info you give Earl!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jamielee said:


> Sorry


It's okay... I understand the need and the desire.
You have to see some of the questions I hound my contacts with.. 

:backtotop


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## talbain (Sep 6, 2006)

jamielee said:


> Come on Directv give us OTA!!!! The box has been out for about 8 weeks


come on directv give us DUAL BUFFERS!!!!


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## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

As much as I would like to be excited about OTA and dual buffers, I just want a stable f'n software release!!!
This is UNREAL DTV... what are you guys thinking??? Are you testing this crap at all before you release it? Do your programmers actually own the units and run them thru the paces? It just baffles me that a company of this size can have these kind of software issues!!!
here are my results of the new software release so far:
First off, my recording of The Unit tonight resulted in BSOD (before the software update), then after a reboot was gone from myVOD - nice work DTV.
After forcing software update to 0xDC - and then rebooting:
right off the bat there was this issue mentioned in the release notes:
"Known Issues with release
Pixelization During FF/RW functions. Noticeable primariy in 1080i/720p MPEG4 recordings, while FF/RW the video play pixelizes. This is due to updates with the MPEG4 code (which was changed to address other issues), the pixelizing will be corrected in a future release."
They need to add that the FF/RW funtion will actually STOP working all together - and the only way to get out of it is to use the 30secskip button!!! UNBELIEVABLE
Even as I post, trying to watch the HD MPEG 4 recording of Letterman tonight, these prblems are everywhere. 
WHY KEEP RELEASING "UPDATES" IF THE NET OUTCOME AND PERFORMANCE OF THE UNIT IS CONTINUALLY REGRESSIVE!!! sorry for the caps, but my patience is quickly coming to an end.
So, it's not just pixelation during FF/RW, it just plain gets stuck and will not FF or RW properly- at least for me.
This is after 2 reboots.
I will be calling DTV tomorrow, and may even be seriously considering ending my relationship with DTV all togher.
The early adopters should not be punished, for wanting to record and watch HD content, period!
And now that is out of my system, I 'm off to bed...


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## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

jbstix said:


> As much as I would like to be excited about OTA and dual buffers, I just want a stable f'n software release!!!
> This is UNREAL DTV... what are you guys thinking??? Are you testing this crap at all before you release it? Do your programmer actually own the units and run them thru the paces? It just baffles me that a company of this size can have these kind of software issues!!!
> here are my results of the new software release so far:
> First off, my recording of The Unit tonight resulted in BSOD (before the software update), then after a reboot was gone from myVOD - nice work DTV.
> ...


Don't let the bed bugs bite...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I guess it's safe to say the HR20 development staff must have alot more resources to draw upon than the R15 development staff. But I guess that's not really a surprise.


The HR20 is without a doubt DirecTV's flagship receiver. They have to make it perform flawlessly.


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## jlowry919 (Sep 5, 2006)

Earl,

Thanks for the updates, make sure you take some time away from this board to enjoy the Bear's games this year.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

DVRaholic said:


> Wake up Earl, its 6:30 am CST, time to get up for work
> MAJOR BUG Here
> 
> NOTE This on BOTH my HR20-700's,
> 1 with Internal Drive & 1 with eSATA


I guess your bug means Earl can magically fix?


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

sigma1914 said:



> I guess your bug means Earl can magically fix?


I thought Earl was magic! Of course, I've been known to be wrong about such things. I thought frosted Lucky Charms were magically delicious, and they turned out to be, in fact, tragically malicious. I couldn't have been more mistaken, no?


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Aye. It should become a rule that every person that asks Earl about OTA from this point on needs to buy him a beer.


Earl deserves a beer from each of us, anyway. I work with a blog that has an associated forum and it's hard to believe how the young woman who moderates it maintains her sanity.


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## 69RoadRunner (Feb 17, 2006)

Andrew_J_M said:


> Agreed - I hope that other guy isn't really a programmer or analyst! I come across it all the time "I didn't think the user would try and do that". You just didn't think matey.


It's good to know that you're perfect and can come up with every possible scenario. I've been a programmer for 13 years, currently working on an SAP system.


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## jgrade (Oct 1, 2006)

I’ve said it before, but this takes me back to the days when I first got my SAT-60 and the dual tuners were not active. Thread after thread of complaints about how much longer will it be before both tuners are active. It’s nice to be able to sit back and listen to the griping about dual buffers, OTA activation, etc and not care. Maybe I have been lucky, but I think the unit would about 95% of the time with only a few annoyances.

I think is completely unacceptable for D to release a product that is this buggy, HOWEVER, they are actively trying to correct the issues so I can give them a little slack. The alternative would have been for them to delay the launch and have everyone complain about the delay (can anyone say Vista, A380, Playstation 3, etc.) There is no way to win. Apple is the only company that gets it right. They don’t even mention a product until it is ready for the masses (except for the recent iTunes7), but that just leads to rumors and speculation. 

Get a grip, it only TV.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jbstix said:


> As much as I would like to be excited about OTA and dual buffers, I just want a stable f'n software release!!!
> This is UNREAL DTV... what are you guys thinking??? Are you testing this crap at all before you release it? Do your programmers actually own the units and run them thru the paces? It just baffles me that a company of this size can have these kind of software issues!!!
> here are my results of the new software release so far:
> First off, my recording of The Unit tonight resulted in BSOD (before the software update), then after a reboot was gone from myVOD - nice work DTV.
> ...


So... should DirecTV has sat on the update... that fixed the BLACK Screen and failed recordings, another few weeks, while they worked out the MPEG4 pixelizing during FF... ?


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## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

Well, I will chime in with some positives...

I think the stability of this box has increased 4 fold since I got it 4 weeks ago...I had two unplayable recordings the first week and have had none since. I am now very confident that I will not have to watch my backup recordings from the SD TIVO.

However, there are still issues as many have reported, never been a fan of the very choppy fast forwarding or no auto correct, but...D* seems to be releasing and update every 7-10 days, so many props....

Its as simple as this....you got the HR20 in Aug/Sept with a few bugs or you could have it in Dec/Jan with less bugs....personally, I think D* did the correct thing - by far....


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## mlobitz (Oct 11, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Aye. It should become a rule that every person that asks Earl about OTA from this point on needs to buy him a beer.


OTA...beer
dual buffers...beer
OTA...beer

This is awesome!:lol:


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## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for the weekly updates... DirecTV agrees... they really don't want to continue this pattern much longer, but they need to get these fixes out and as fast as possible.
> 
> You should start to see more of a seperation between updates.


Would getting the OTA activated be an issue that will be updated as fast as possible or will that be included in one of the more seperated updates? I just couldnt resist! Sorry Earl. 

And yes the beers on me... All you gotta do is head down good ol' 65 south to Indy!


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## DVRaholic (Nov 19, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess your bug means Earl can magically fix?


Come On!  
NO But Earl can MAGICALLY tell the right people in Directv about the BUG 
Not so much the Choppieness but the Freezing when FF Mpeg-4 programs


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can FF/RW, it will just pixelize.
> There is a possibility though, it will loop through on a frame. If that happens just hit PLAY, get past that frame, and FF again.
> 
> DirecTV does know about the issue, and will get it fixed...
> But they felt correcting the "Blank Recording" and total freezes on playback was worth getting out there now.


Thanks. It sounds like DirecTV reproduced my problem either before or after the most current release (doesn't really matter which). I agree that "blank recording" needs to be fixed, even at the expense of the FF problem I had. Painful is an improvement over impossible :lol: . I hope you're right about the occasional FF issue. I experienced it right away, but that could have been coincidence and not normal. I'll know more after using it tonight (Lost, Jericho, and maybe others).


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The Slimeline may provide marginal improvement in signal strength, simply because it is a newer design and has a single LNB assembly (less chance of signal loss in the connectors).... but overall... nothing significant.


I can't tell you how many times I've caught myself right after that same typo

*Slimeline* :lol:

I bet you're gonna edit this post of typos too, eh Earl? Sneaky sneaky mod...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> I can't tell you how many times I've caught myself right after that same typo
> 
> *Slimeline* :lol:


 Typing Memory in the fingers


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Your FF pixelizing and looping on a frame are known issue (added to the release notes this morning, and discussed a few times in this thread)
> 
> 30s Skip and normal playback are teh two work arounds.
> 
> ...


What the hell - now your telling me that my HR20 (that has been working just fine for a week) now has new bugs that weren't there yesterday. JFC - why release a F'd up patch??


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

WANDERER said:


> What the hell - now your telling me that my HR20 (that has been working just fine for a week) now has new bugs that weren't there yesterday. JFC - why release a F'd up patch??


Read the rest of this thread, as I think some where in here I have explained it at least once... but anyway:

They had a choice:

Release this version, that corrects Blank, Freezing, Corrupting, other non-viewable recordings... but has an issue while moving speeds above standard playback.

Or sit on it for another 1-2 weeks while they fix that issue, retest a new build, ect...


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Read the rest of this thread, as I think some where in here I have explained it at least once... but anyway:
> 
> They had a choice:
> 
> ...


This whole scene is GD ridiculous. All were doing here is exchanging problems.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

WANDERER said:


> This whole scene is GD ridiculous. All were doing here is exchanging problems.


So turn the box off... return it, and wait a while...
I know you have already thrown the box out once....

In software development, there is often the case where you have to "rework" something that was already working, to solve other problems. Because that original solution... doesn't always "work" in the bigger scheme of things.


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> In software development, there is often the case where you have to "rework" something that was already working, to solve other problems. Because that original solution... doesn't always "work" in the bigger scheme of things.


I'd agree with this assessment. I've been doing development work for more than 14 years, and this can often be the case. Especially with this type of device. RTP (Real Time Programming) is something that I've never enjoyed, and that I do not envy the folks working on. It's all about trade offs.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

And I would like to point out... that even though the FF/RW "worked"
It wasn't really.... there was times where you would see grey streaks over half the screen while FFing, and it simply wasn't that smooth.

Some inconsistancies with 30s SLIP not going the same length ect.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

A little sanity here folks...

Granted, I've yet to come home and face any issues that this update may have caused, but let's try to be fair, especially let's remember that Earl did not cause any of these problems, he's not defending them, he's trying to be our advocate with D* and I for one think he's doing a hell of a job. Let's try to keep the tone civil and remember that we're all in this for the same thing, which is a quality viewing experience. 

One more thing, if any of you out there think that this is a unique experience, I'm here to tell you that it's just not. I've been making a living with computers for 20 years and I've seen a lot of "1.0" releases that should have never gotten to the public. Too many to count. I'll grant it's probably worse now because the market is too competitive and too large to allow for "proper" beta testing. 

Of course, people get on these forums to complain and blow off steam, I get that. But let's not ALL be haters, and especially not toward those who have been so helpful to us in the past.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

lamontcranston said:


> A little sanity here folks...
> 
> Granted, I've yet to come home and face any issues that this update may have caused, but let's try to be fair, especially let's remember that Earl did not cause any of these problems, he's not defending them, he's trying to be our advocate with D* and I for one think he's doing a hell of a job. Let's try to keep the tone civil and remember that we're all in this for the same thing, which is a quality viewing experience.
> 
> ...


Agreed. The last system I supported the programmers had to actually disable some functionality to fix a critical bug with some code that caused problems for regulatory submissions to the government. So they quickly got that fixed within a week so that business could continue and not lose any more money. Then they went back and spent the next couple weeks recoding that module to work again with the new fix code. A month later all was good and everything was working again.

Sometimes it's kill the ugliest thing first in place of a minor annoyance and then bring it all back together again. Either that or you wait a full month while the major ugly is costing your business millions.

Software coding ain't easy folks. Try it sometime.  
I just don't get some of the attitudes here sometimes but then it is a forum where people love to complain. :lol:


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

Shooting at the messenger is just uncalled for.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can FF/RW, it will just pixelize.
> There is a possibility though, it will loop through on a frame. If that happens just hit PLAY, get past that frame, and FF again.
> 
> DirecTV does know about the issue, and will get it fixed...
> But they felt correcting the "Blank Recording" and total freezes on playback was worth getting out there now.


Earl, as you point out, there are valid reasons for this latest HR-20 glitch (the FF/REW MPEG-4 issue), but don't you find all this starting and stopping kinda funny? C'mon, admit it. It's getting to be pretty hilarious. These boards have been rocking for 3-4 weeks with every possible complaint/issue/*****, short of the box being DOA (which might have happened to a few people).

When I envision the D* programming minions in a state of constant frazzlement (a new word), it has the back story of a decent sitcom (not that I envy them,of course). Maybe D* could even wring a pilot out of this thing (starring their programming people, sort of like Cheers, but in their office park building) and see if it sells on one of their PPV channels (of course, at no charge). While the programming folks feverishly toil away on next week's "fix," they all make really funny wisecracks, bust each other's chops - all the good sitcom style material - about the latest HR-20 challenge.

Now I realize the new pixel issue isn't funny for most (I just checked, and I have the iteration with the looping frame Earl describes above), but I am not gonna fire off any more hostile messages to D*. I really do believe it's turning into entertainment. I've given up on hostility (hear that, HDTVfan?) and turned to tranquility.

In fact, the whole thing is taking on a surreal, almost enjoyable quality, with fun guessing game elements. Not sure how to even describe this procession of downloaded code ...are the downloads upgrades? Not a chance. updates? Doesn't really work. New versions? That might be okay. Releases? Hmm, I know that's the technical phrase, but it's not right.

Anyone want to start a D* "Name the latest download" contest?

Or, is this some sort of candid camera/mass practical joke concept, using the HR-20 rather than a TV crew? Are we all (and I am only referring to those of us with issues, the rest - and you know who you are - can ignore this) just being made part of some wonderful social experiment by D*, and at the end, a D* van is going to drive up to all of our houses (not those whose HR-20s haven't had problems, mind you) and drop some seriously cool prizes on our doorsteps? Another HR-20, free with no monthly fee for the DVR? A lifetime subscription to D*'s programming magazine, the one Marty Scorcese writes for (yeah, right)? A matching D* t-shirt and sweatshirt?

Guess not.

Meantime, it's back to setting up that massive recording overload to see if the BSOD is really gone. If they really fixed that, I will be at peace. Because I honestly do like the HR-20. If I can record reliably, it's a total winner.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm starting to think it would be in DTV's best interest to STOP distributing the HR-20 for the time being. Perhaps treat the current customers (anyone that has an HR-20) as a beta group...

If I was a non technical person and didn't understand the technology I would have canceled DTV on day 2 given that I'm a brand new customer! I know the problem is associated to software running on the HR-20 but I wonder what less technical people think of the HR-20? Are they running to DTV requesting their money back?


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> I'm starting to think it would be in DTV's best interest to STOP distributing the HR-20 for the time being. Perhaps treat the current customers (anyone that has an HR-20) as a beta group...
> 
> If I was a non technical person and didn't understand the technology I would have canceled DTV on day 2 given that I'm a brand new customer! I know the problem is associated to software running on the HR-20 but I wonder what less technical people think of the HR-20? Are they running to DTV requesting their money back?


That is a very interesting question, because 95 percent of consumers could care less about programming issues, tech details, releases that fix problems but create new ones, etc. They just want their new gear to work. There are a lot of programmers on here, and granted they know all about the reasons why all this hassle has taken place (and they have been great at explaining it), but frankly, Joe and Jane Sixpack (and some of we non-programmers who just like great gear) just want their stuff to work. I don't know the answer Radio, but it's a darn good question. I wonder what is happening with all the folks who never even consider reading a forum post and just bought the HR-20 to use it as a DVR? Assume a percentage of them are also having the same issues. Imagine how confused they must be.


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## Wally_Gator (Nov 28, 2005)

Ok, 
Take the following with a grain of salt...
I called Cust retention yesterday to verify my billing was correct. They had some things wrong from the last time they tried to activate an HR20...

So this CSR and I are chatting as he is checking on credits and stuff. 
He and I start talking about the HR20 and how it was rushed into place. 
His take based on an internal e-mail was that D* needed to stop the bleeding of customers going to Dish and cable because of the MPEG4 and HD DVRs.
He then mentions another e-mail that states by the end of the year the CEO announced 100 additional channels of HD content. 
Skeptical I said, are they not waiting for the new birds to be launched. 
His response was that they have the capacity now and just need to manage the rollout. Some example of HD locals was pushed to many markets in one shot and the system barfed it up and D* had to rollback the LIL's in some areas....

I tend to belieave that most of this is B.S. but wouldn't it be nice to have that may new HD's?


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## larcar (Sep 22, 2006)

tstarn said:


> That is a very interesting question, because 95 percent of consumers could care less about programming issues, tech details, releases that fix problems but create new ones, etc. They just want their new gear to work. There are a lot of programmers on here, and granted they know all about the reasons why all this hassle has taken place (and they have been great at explaining it), but frankly, Joe and Jane Sixpack (and some of we non-programmers who just like great gear) just want their stuff to work. I don't know the answer Radio, but it's a darn good question. I wonder what is happening with all the folks who never even consider reading a forum post and just bought the HR-20 to use it as a DVR? Assume a percentage of them are also having the same issues. Imagine how confused they must be.


I agree. If i had not stumbled on this great forum to read about all the issues with the hr20 and what they are doing to fix them I would be making allot of calls to D*. I would receive a different answer from every CSR, so I don't want to go there. Thanks Earl for giving us all this great information. By the way my box works pretty well, just some minor things.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wally_Gator said:


> He then mentions another e-mail that states by the end of the year the CEO announced 100 additional channels of HD content.


Well Rupert has said this more than once, so the fact that he said it is definitely true. Whether or not it's actually true is up for debate.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Well Rupert has said this more than once, so the fact that he said it is definitely true. Whether or not it's actually true is up for debate.


I don't think it is much of debate... even though it wasn't specifically stated, we think he was referring to HD Locals.

There is no technical way you can have 100 HD channels, with excluding the locals.... as there simply is not 100 HD channels available to broadcast.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't think it is much of debate


It's not, but people are debating it. I'm in the HD LIL camp myself, but *any* new HD channels would be great.


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So turn the box off... return it, and wait a while...
> I know you have already thrown the box out once....
> 
> In software development, there is often the case where you have to "rework" something that was already working, to solve other problems. Because that original solution... doesn't always "work" in the bigger scheme of things.


GEEZ Chill Earl! None of my rants are aimed at you personally - I like your site - you're a smart guy. However, you should thank me for taking the time to post here. Afterall, that is why your sponsors pay for those nifty little advertisements up above!

Sounds like D* is in a state of panic to me.

An old proverb: If you don't have time to do something right the first time, how will you have time to do it right later?

If you keep changing the variables you'll never get the answer right. They should not release updates until they are thought to be perfect.

Another analogy might be S/N ratio.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

It is always better to sit on a software update and not release it until you have adequately tested it and have dealt with all known issues. You should NEVER release an update with known issues.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

WANDERER said:


> GEEZ Chill Earl! None of my rants are aimed at you personally - I like your site - you're a smart guy. However, you should thank me for taking the time to post here. Afterall, that is why your sponsors pay for those nifty little advertisements up above!
> 
> Sounds like D* is in a state of panic to me.
> 
> ...


I know they are not aimed at me personally...
I thank everyone for posting here... but it has nothing to do with the Ad's... as I am just a mod, not part owner, nor financialy benefit from the site in anyway... I do this as addiction/hobby of mine... definently not for pay.

As for D* in a state of panic... I can tell you they are no where near that point... If they, things would be VERY different.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Wanderer, it seems the folks (and I really do like Earl) who started out telling everyone "this is only TV" and "get a life" are the ones with the shrillest voices now, no? Does that tell you something? We *****ers have started to see the light, mainly that we weren't nuts in the first place. Guess that sort of gives us some sense of vindication, but for those who said, "It'll just be a short time and all will be well," well, it's not turning out that way. Guess it all depends on the definition of a short time. Again, no hostility meant. (so save the flames). Just a tranquil observation.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> It is always better to sit on a software update and not release it until you have adequately tested it and have dealt with all known issues. You should NEVER release an update with known issues.


So you are saying... even though this fix should eliminate Blank Recordings, Corrupted Recordings, and Missed Scheduled Recordings... they should sit on it for 2-3 more weeks, while they fix the FF Pixel and Loop Frame..


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

tstarn said:


> Wanderer, it seems the folks (and I really do like Earl) who started out telling everyone "this is only TV" and "get a life" are the ones with the shrillest voices now, no? Does that tell you something? We *****ers have started to see the light, mainly that we weren't nuts in the first place. Guess that sort of gives us some sense of vindication, but for those who said, "It'll just be a short time and all will be well," well, it's not turning out that way. Guess it all depends on the definition of a short time. Again, no hostility meant. (so save the flames). Just a tranquil observation.


I'd rather be fishing, but I can't quite reach the lake from my office window.


----------



## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So you are saying... even though this fix should eliminate Blank Recordings, Corrupted Recordings, and Missed Scheduled Recordings... they should sit on it for 2-3 more weeks, while they fix the FF Pixel and Loop Frame..


But are you sure the download fixed that wicked trio, Earl? That, my friend, is the real question that remains to be answered. If so, woohoo! If not, look out!


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> I'd rather be fishing, but I can't quite reach the lake from my office window.


I give you the rest of the day off. Go get the tackle box.


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So you are saying... even though this fix should eliminate Blank Recordings, Corrupted Recordings, and Missed Scheduled Recordings... they should sit on it for 2-3 more weeks, while they fix the FF Pixel and Loop Frame..


Here's what I'm saying about my box - its been flawless for sometime now. Now its corrupt. We have exchanged a sporadic, rare (albeit bad problem) problem for one that will rub me raw every time a commercial break arrives. Hmmmm.


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

tstarn said:


> I give you the rest of the day off. Go get the tackle box.


Can't do that, but hey - why don't you write up another great article for us to read! I'll post it here! LOL!  (Sincerely)

I hope all this blogging hasn't cost you more productive work!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tstarn said:


> Wanderer, it seems the folks (and I really do like Earl) who started out telling everyone "this is only TV" and "get a life" are the ones with the shrillest voices now, no? Does that tell you something? We *****ers have started to see the light, mainly that we weren't nuts in the first place. Guess that sort of gives us some sense of vindication, but for those who said, "It'll just be a short time and all will be well," well, it's not turning out that way. Guess it all depends on the definition of a short time. Again, no hostility meant. (so save the flames). Just a tranquil observation.


Sorry... not going to save the flame here....

No disrespect to you Tom, or Wanderer... are not the first "*****ers" that have graced this or any other forum. Nor are you the only active ones.

This is nothing new to me (in the role I serve here, and the role I have played over the last couple years)... HR20 is just a new arena, but I have had the similar conversations over and over and over and over again on the R15 forum, TivoCommunity, and several other spots.

This is nothing new to a lot of the "long" term people here and converts from TCF... There are several different ways to look at things... You will see I will look and explain things from a software programmers point of view, with a marginal twist of Econ/Buisness 101 in there (As that the most I studied in college).

Shrillest/Shillest voices... in the last year, have been the tag thrown a lot... But I would like to point out...that except for one time, I haven't thrown that "tag" around....

So now... 
Moderator hat back on:

:backtotop


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sorry... not going to save the flame here....
> 
> No disrespect to you Tom, or Wanderer... are not the first "*****ers" that have graced this or any other forum. Nor are you the only active ones.
> 
> ...


Dude - you should be on the payroll, has that not occurred to you?! :nono:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tstarn said:


> But are you sure the download fixed that wicked trio, Earl? That, my friend, is the real question that remains to be answered. If so, woohoo! If not, look out!


Certainly hope it does...but if it doesn't... then well.. that too will have to be fixed. But do they think it fixes it... yes they do.



WANDERER said:


> Here's what I'm saying about my box - its been flawless for sometime now. Now its corrupt. We have exchanged a sporadic, rare (albeit bad problem) problem for one that will rub me raw every time a commercial break arrives. Hmmmm.


But... just as people tell me... "You have a golden box"... there are plenty of people (just look at the last release thread), that have had that problem... some nights they lose the entire evenings of recordings.

Just because "you" (figuratively) are not having the problem, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.


----------



## Wally_Gator (Nov 28, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't think it is much of debate... even though it wasn't specifically stated, we think he was referring to HD Locals.
> 
> There is no technical way you can have 100 HD channels, with excluding the locals.... as there simply is not 100 HD channels available to broadcast.


The thing is, I pressed the guy about it being the locals and he was telling me, no it is new HD content...

Personally, I think they are saying stuff liek that to keep current D* subscribers baited until the new sats are up.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

WANDERER said:


> Dude - you should be on the payroll, has that not occured to you?! :nono:


Yes it has....
But in all honest... I doubt I would ever want it... As for what ever reason... I enjoy what I do, here... and how I do it.

It would almost be a sure bet, if I had a paycheck with DirecTV on it.
I would not be able to participate here in this forum in the fashion I do.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> Can't do that, but hey - why don't you write up another great article for us to read! I'll post it here! LOL!  (Sincerely)
> 
> I hope all this blogging hasn't cost you more productive work!


Honestly, I do have to get back to work soon (self-employed), but it's been fun.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Seriously now..

If you want to discuss it more... PM, or start a new thread.
Not here... not in this thread... 

:backtotop


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Certainly hope it does...but if it doesn't... then well.. that too will have to be fixed. But do they think it fixes it... yes they do.
> 
> But... just as people tell me... "You have a golden box"... there are plenty of people (just look at the last release thread), that have had that problem... some nights they lose the entire evenings of recordings.
> 
> Just because "you" (figuratively) are not having the problem, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.


Oh, I understand the problem - I have experience every glitch I've read about here the last couple of weeks. For some reason it has gone away (last 10 days or so). I still stand that this is no better. I'm curious, as it has not been stated clearly yet - is the whole ff/rw/pixelation issue ubiquitous?


----------



## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

tstarn said:


> Honestly, I do have to get back to work soon (self-employed), but it's been fun.


Do come back!


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

billt1111 said:


> Meaning, "does everybody experience this problem"? No, I do not have this problem on either of my HR20s.


I apologize for my soporific choice of adjectives?


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## thart (Oct 11, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> Here's what I'm saying about my box - its been flawless for sometime now. Now its corrupt. We have exchanged a sporadic, rare (albeit bad problem) problem for one that will rub me raw every time a commercial break arrives. Hmmmm.


I am sorry that your box is now corrupt (or at least took somewhat of a step backwards), but at least I can now consider my box somewhat useful now.

Before this update, I was only getting 1 out of 5 recordings that were not a black screen. My issue was in no way sporadic.

Just my two cents!


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

thart said:


> I am sorry that your box is now corrupt (or at least took somewhat of a step backwards), but at least I can now consider my box somewhat useful now.
> 
> Before this update, I was only getting 1 out of 5 recordings that were not a black screen. My issue was in no way sporadic.
> 
> Just my two cents!


WOW! I can see where this would spell relief for you!

I've got the answer! How about having the option to skip the update! :eek2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Howie said:


> I didn't have any of those problems prior to last night's "fix." Now I can't fast forward. To me, the 2 most important functions of a DVR are to reliably record what you ask it to and to be able to quickly skip ads in recorded programs. Last week I could do both of those things, but now I can't.


It's a good thing then, that this isn't the last software update.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

I haven't noteiced any problems to date, aside from occasional unresponsiveness, but now I am really experiencing freezing, unresponsiveness, and lockups -- BAD!!  

I NEVER had these problems with my six TiVos!! DirecTV promised that this DVR would be "better than TiVo." Well, I can say that so far, I am NOT impressed!! If I could get HD locals via sat on the TiVo, this boat anchor would be sitting on my back patio in the rain!!


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## YankeeFan (Jan 31, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> Dude - you should be on the payroll, has that not occurred to you?! :nono:


I think we should ALL be on the payroll, since we're doing D*'s "user acceptance testing" :lol: :lol:


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It's a good thing then, that this isn't the last software update.


I meant no affront to you, Earl. I just want the powers to be to see me chime in on my problem. No FF sux.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

Well I was hopeful, I guess I need to lower my expectation when it comes to D*.

First time using the latest release and 20 min into using the new version I am having to hit the reset button. 

It started off with good video, I was FF thru a MPEG4 recording from last night, about the 30 min mark the screen went black. I rewound to the 15 min mark and all that good video was black. I stopped and tried to hit play again but it was all still black. I went back to the list to try to play something else, I selected a HD net recording and boom the STB locked up and I had to reboot.

Keep up the good work guys! with you next release perhaps you can bring my time to crash down from 20 min to maybe 10 or 5, hell maybe the next download with just trash the box from the start. :nono: 

Yes this was a recording captured under the last version of the code, and maybe that is related to why it crashed, but here is a little computer science mantra to keep repeating to yourselves "bad data does not crash good code" it is called exception handling, we have been doing it in software for some 40 or 50 years. BTW I have a CS degree I use to write code, but put me strongly in the category I just want the box to work, you know, record, ff, rw, play, I know high expectation for a Digital Video Recorder.

Reset buttons are for emergencies they are not suppose to be part of the SOP for a consumer device.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> I haven't noteiced any problems to date, aside from occasional unresponsiveness, but now I am really experiencing freezing, unresponsiveness, and lockups -- BAD!!
> 
> I NEVER had these problems with my six TiVos!! DirecTV promised that this DVR would be "better than TiVo." Well, I can say that so far, I am NOT impressed!! If I could get HD locals via sat on the TiVo, this boat anchor would be sitting on my back patio in the rain!!


You are not alone.


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## lakerholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No...
> 
> Does anyone read the Release Notes?


Earl, not to derail this topic but I don't understand why D* is not addressing the dual buffer issue. To me, it has nothing to do with sports... it has to do with trying to watch two programs, live, at the same time.. and right now, try as I might, I can't do it (without recording two shows unnecessarily) and it's frustrating as all get out...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV doesn't (yet) have a beta program, but Earl has said that they're thinking about starting one.


And according to Earl, they have been "thinking" about that for 8-9 months now.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> And according to Earl, they have been "thinking" about that for 8-9 months now.


Why bother with a beta when you can apperently just dump beta quality code and product on your customer base.

Sorry for my cynicism on this, but I am just getting fustrated with the combination of my bad luck and DirecTVs bad code.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> And according to Earl, they have been "thinking" about that for 8-9 months now.


Very true... They have been thinking about it since the R15 days... but have yet to pull the trigger on it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> I merely rewound back into the live buffer. Since then, nothing BUT freezing and lockups!
> 
> Never had a problem with my TiVos. At least TiVo seems to have a very good Beta progam before they release software to the masses. DirecTV appears to be Beta testing on ALL of their customers!


So even after a reboot you are getting freezing and lockups?

As for TiVo Beta testing thie software... time to go take a sneak peek at www.tivocommunity.com; you will find a lot of people that disagree with you on that in the Tivo Series 3 and the HD-DTivo forum (yes TiVo did write the software for the DTivo)... but this is about the HR20... not the TiVo..

You all have noticed that the software versions are not right after one another right (build numbers). So obivously, the code is at least being tested to some degree.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> This whole scene is GD ridiculous. All were doing here is exchanging problems.


That is NOT what is happening from my perspective. It isn't an "exchange".

It is the nature of the development cycle on this unit. If you can't deal with it, turn the thing off and use something else until it meets your standards. It's NOT going happen the way you want, period. We are on a development ride. That is HOW IT IS. Nothing you do or say is going change that. Either adjust to it, (and provide valuable and reasoned feedback, get over it, or use something else. How much clearer could things be?

I'm not trying to be snotty, but really, you've been around long enough to see what is going on. There are NO MAGIC BULLETS at this time. A few steps forward, a step back, that's how it is and that's how it's going to be.

The HR20 is a work in progress. How many thousand posts does one have to read before one understands that demonstrable fact? We are in a cycle:

Download > Test > Give Feedback > Recode > Download > Test ...etc.

If this doesn't work for you, you're out of luck.


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## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... should DirecTV has sat on the update... that fixed the BLACK Screen and failed recordings, another few weeks, while they worked out the MPEG4 pixelizing during FF... ?


My opinion - short answer Yes! We're playing the 1 step forwar 3 steps back game here...
Now we have supposedly fixed the issue w/ missed or unviewable recordings, but now we can't even FF/RW thru the new recordings. Wow, what a great step forward. I've been quietly reading thru all these posts for weeks, I just needed to vent a little last night. I don't want to offend anyone here, (don't think I have) but as far as "offending" D* I don't think they're listening anyway.


----------



## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

hasan said:


> We are on a development ride. That is HOW IT IS. Nothing you do or say is going change that. Either adjust to it, (and provide valuable and reasoned feedback, get over it, or use something else. How much clearer could things be?
> 
> I'm not trying to be snotty, ....


Sorry, who the hell is "we". I am not on a "development ride", no one from D* said "hey Brian, want to test our DVR product, you know it is in development mode so expect problems". You may have decided that is where you are at but "We" are not all with you on that ride. Perhaps I have missed my beta testing check from D*? I purchased, what was suppose to be a production ready product, not a crash factory. If you like to think that you are in some kind of special bleeding edge beta tester club then you can continue down that fantasy path, but don't bring me or "we" on that "ride" with you. I expect D* to deliver a working product, and it is not a stretch to expect that the product plays, records, fast forwards and rewinds with out crashing. And yes IMO are being snotty by assuming that we are on the same ride you are on.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

btmoore said:


> Sorry, who the hell is "we". I am not on a "development ride", no one from D* said "hey Brian, want to test our DVR product, you know it is in development mode so expect problems". You may have decided that is where you are at but "We" are not all with you on that ride. Perhaps I have missed my beta testing check from D*? I purchased, what was suppose to be a production ready product, not a crash factory. If you like to think that you are in some kind of special bleeding edge beta tester club then you can continue down that fantasy path, but don't bring me or "we" on that "ride" with you. I expect D* to deliver a working product, and it is not a stretch to expect that the product plays, records, fast forwards and rewinds with out crashing. And yes IMO are being snotty by assuming that we are on the same ride you are on.


Whether you like it or not, you ARE on the development ride, it's not an assumption, it's not an option, it's a demonstrable fact. (Maybe you feel you have been "taken for a ride", and I don't blame anyone who feels that way) The fact (not opinion) is, that's how it IS, and no amount of *****ing is going to change it. "We" is anyone who is using this thing. The reality is the reality. You're on the ride if you turn the power on, you have no choice (except to turn it off).

I'm done stating the bleeding obvious, carry on.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> Well then, I don't know how else to explain that the 50 minutes of live buffer that I HAD on the channel it was on were dumped! I merely pressed the Active button (by accident, instead of the List button) and when I exited out of the Active menu, I had lost ALL of that buffer!
> 
> BTW -- the "Active" feature seems pretty useless!


Active is different the playing a previous recording.
If you have something recording on the 2nd tuner... Active will use your primary "buffered" tunner, as Active is just a specialized channel in the system... so it is actually "changing" the channel when you go to the Active.

I also not 100% sure if it always go to the background tuner for Active...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jbstix said:


> My opinion - short answer Yes! We're playing the 1 step forwar 3 steps back game here...
> Now we have supposedly fixed the issue w/ missed or unviewable recordings, but now we can't even FF/RW thru the new recordings. Wow, what a great step forward. I've been quietly reading thru all these posts for weeks, I just needed ot vent a little last night. I don't want to offend anyone here, (don't think I have) but as far as "offending" D* I don't think they're listening anyway.


You might be surprised just how much they are listening.


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## cbearnm (Sep 6, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> If you keep changing the variables you'll never get the answer right. They should not release updates until they are thought to be perfect.


If that were the case, we would still be running MS-DOS 1.0 (or linux pre-release versions). 

I will grant that changing too many things at one time is ill advised in software updates. It is best to sit down and say "What do you rate as code red updates." Work on those and roll them out, then work on the next level, and so on.

It is D*'s aim (I am sure) to not introduce new problems while solving others, but it is inherently part of the process. And QA testing is generally done to verify the goals are met, without necessarily verify nothing else got broken. The problem with the software D* is working with is that it is so much user driven.

With accounting software (my forte') it is easy to build regressive tests that verify nothing else is broken in making a patch. 1+1 had better always equal 2. UI software is very difficult to quantify those type of results. Some should be blaringly obvious, but they aren't always so. I certainly hope that the developers are not the final QA (it sounds like we are, actually). There should be a documented set of procedures to be followed by testers that verify that previously working features aren't affected. It sounds like this is not the case currently.

I think that it would be easy enough to get 2-3 dozen of us here as beta testers for software updates. Roll the updates, give us procedures (in the form of a checklist) to run (FF/REV with MPEG4 streams, check ToDo lists, verify recordings) and a way to report results. This lets D* get it tested on a variety of monitors and configurations without running redundant tests in house. It also removes the conflict of 'covering' up something that might seem minor. Once a certain percentage reports back with no defects, roll out the updates to all users. I for one would be happy to be on a such a committee. Throw us a bone of 1 free month per year on the group and we would thrilled. Really wouldn't cost D* much at all, and the results would be much more accurate. In fact, it would probably get them some nice press for going the extra mile.

Just some thoughts.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

No wonder they're giving these things away for "free!"

I can't even watch previous recordings, and I can't FF/REW throught them either! Pixelization, freezing, recordings that go into green or blue screens, you can't FF or REW through them without getting the Frame loop!! This is absolute CRAP!!

I had no issues prior to this release other than, as I said in a previous post, unresponsiveness to remote commands. Now, this thing is almost unusable!

As to the previous poster talking about "development cycles": I also did NOT sign up to be a Beta tester. All I've heard for the last couple of years is that this thing "will be better than TiVo." Yet, I guess DirecTV thinks giving you fewer features and a DVR that's "broken" is "better?!" IMHO, DirecTV needs to get back to concentrating on satellite launches, customer satisfaction, and adding more HD channels to catch up with cable, and leave DVR development to "the professionals!!"  

I have not really posted here much since I signed up on this board, and I think you could look back at my previous posts and not consider me to have been angry (other than frustration at not having dual buffers, and a couple of other features that I'm used to having been a TiVo owner since they were $1000+) but this new software "fix" has me extremely angry!!


----------



## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

hasan said:


> That is NOT what is happening from my perspective. It isn't an "exchange".
> 
> It is the nature of the development cycle on this unit. If you can't deal with it, turn the thing off and use something else until it meets your standards. It's NOT going happen the way you want, period. We are on a development ride. That is HOW IT IS. Nothing you do or say is going change that. Either adjust to it, (and provide valuable and reasoned feedback, get over it, or use something else. How much clearer could things be?
> 
> ...


With all due respect Hasan, and it's been said before here, most customers don't know a development ride from the roller coaster ride at the local amusement park. All the geeks on these forums seem to think it's fine and dandy for a company to release a product and then just "fix" it for 4-6 weeks before it works (if that even happens). It's not the way any right-thinking company operates. I know it worked in Redmond and for upteen other software vendors (we've all had Windows Millennium at some point), but this is hardware, and it's not the first DVR ever invented. I'm sure that the large majority of people who are having serious issues could care less about development cycles, re-codes, etc. That's a ridiculous notion, that the thousands of people who have had these boxes (and are having problems, though some dispute the numbers and issues are major, despite the 5 downloads) just sit patiently by while D* gets its act together.

When I asked Earl today what would happen if this download didn't fix the three main issues it's supposed to fix, he said, with a straight face I presume, they will fix that too.

Sorry, but I just can't agree with that "it's the way it happens" logic. Maybe for the programming community, but not for the average consumer. I'm not having any emotional spasms here, either. I am just stating that if you expect people to sit by and wait for the weekly download to fix yesterday's problem while introducing new ones is a regular, normal process in a new piece of home video hardware, then you are really missing the point in all this.

Hey, if you are cool and calm, that's good. But others don't feel they want to be guinea pigs for D*'s experiment gone wrong. You can't blame them for that. And my HR-20 is working fine (last time I checked).


----------



## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

WANDERER said:


> What the hell - now your telling me that my HR20 (that has been working just fine for a week) now has new bugs that weren't there yesterday. JFC - why release a F'd up patch??


well said...


----------



## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

cbearnm said:


> If that were the case, we would still be running MS-DOS 1.0 (or linux pre-release versions).
> 
> I will grant that changing too many things at one time is ill advised in software updates. It is best to sit down and say "What do you rate as code red updates." Work on those and roll them out, then work on the next level, and so on.
> 
> ...


Nice idea. I like it. Too late, though, sad to say.


----------



## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

hasan said:


> Whether you like it or not, you ARE on the development ride, it's not an assumption, it's not an option, it's a demonstrable fact. (Maybe you feel you have been "taken for a ride", and I don't blame anyone who feels that way) The fact (not opinion) is, that's how it IS, and no amount of *****ing is going to change it. "We" is anyone who is using this thing. The reality is the reality. You're on the ride if you turn the power on, you have no choice (except to turn it off).
> 
> I'm done stating the bleeding obvious, carry on.


Man, that is some attutude ... Whether you like it or not... I can't even believe you said it. No one disputes it's a fact (there is no REAL choice here if you want to record HD via MPEG-4), but what a holier-than-thou, screwed up POV. So for every product you buy (or just ones that involve software?), you accept the notion that if it doesn't work, it's useless to complain, but it's just, as Bill Murray used to say, "tough noogies." Just turn it off, forget about it.

Interesting concept, and many of the non-customer-centric companies probably followed it before they went under. Okay, with the exception of MS, which kept pumping out buggy software until 2001, with XP.

Sad is the day when people get a new product, admittedly some got it for nothing, and they just have to sit back and patiently wait until it gets fixed via the development process, when everything is re-coded to perfection ... whenever that might be. Wow.


----------



## rmnowick (Sep 15, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Agreed. The last system I supported the programmers had to actually disable some functionality to fix a critical bug with some code that caused problems for regulatory submissions to the government. So they quickly got that fixed within a week so that business could continue and not lose any more money. Then they went back and spent the next couple weeks recoding that module to work again with the new fix code. A month later all was good and everything was working again.
> 
> Sometimes it's kill the ugliest thing first in place of a minor annoyance and then bring it all back together again. Either that or you wait a full month while the major ugly is costing your business millions.
> 
> ...


All,
Just have to make a comment here as I am nothing more than a lurker on this thread, not having an HR20 at the moment, but following the thread to see how the software fixes are progressing and also just for the sheer entertainment value 

Couldn't agree more with the above comments. Not only are these complex boxes, but the software running on them is real time software. This is an entirely different world of writing code than for normal Windows boxes. The real time coding environment is required because the software has to handle a whole series of "external interrupts", one of the sources of which is you hitting all the FF and REW buttons on the remote. The HR20 has to be able to process that FF or REW no matter what else it happens to be doing at the time. It could be recording two separate HD transport streams, downloading guide information, and also outputting HDMI to your plasma TV, when all of a sudden you tell it that it needs to start speeding through that one stream of data until you decide that it is time to return to normal speed.

Pre-emptive multi-tasking is the concept. Every time that you hit a button on the remote the box needs to consider everything that it is doing and reassign prioritization of tasks such that you get what you want to happen to happen, while the box also is still able to do all the other things that it is already doing (i.e. recording) without missing a beat. Needless to say, this is something that is tremendously difficult to test, given all the different things that the box 1) could be doing at any given time, and 2) all the different things that you could be requesting that it do via the remote. A large part of the testing can be automated provided the resources (i.e. people, money and equipment) are available to develop the automated testing environment and the scripts required to support those kind of tests. Which even in the best of cases doesn't come anywhere near to what the boxes are subjected to in the wild. Reminds me of a joke... I designed the software to be completely idiot proof, but I ended up underestimating the users 

The boxes are tremendously complex, in many cases even more so than the computer you are using. A lot of this has to do with the real time aspect mentioned above, coupled with the specific nature of what the box is doing, which is storing and retrieving huge amounts of data from a hard drive with limited bandwidth. On top of this, you likely have hardware designers trying to save every nickel by using the slowest processors they can get away with, and shifting the burden of making it work to the software developers. It's clear from my perspective why the features that are missing (i.e. dual buffer and OTA recording) are missing: They are both very intensive capabilities that were initially left out to simplify the initial software design.

This is just looking at the technical side. The reason for D* rolling it out before it works *perfectly* is pretty obvious to those who follow cable TV and satellite TV news. The cable companies are starting to seriously reverse the trend where the satellite companies were gaining market share on them a few years ago. Now Verizon and AT&T are getting into the video game too. This puts a lot of pressure on management to "get something out" even if it is not perfect. Tivo had an extensive beta testing program, which I was involved with, and it worked much like what we are seeing here. In that case, the product rolled out to the real customers was more polished, as the HR20 will be after I would guess another couple months.

Your computer is updated with new software every couple weeks by Microsoft, as is your Firefox browser and many other devices including the new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players. As we ask our products to do more, the likelyhood increases that they will need to be updated and fixed over time which is why they have that capability built in from the start. If you don't mind being an early adopter and want the latest and greatest thing then you will have to resign yourself to being on this treadmill. If you can't live with a non-perfect product, then wait till most of the bugs are worked out. Besides, if the damned things just worked perfectly the first time, we would all just be watching TV and not engaging our minds like we are right now 

Enjoy,
Robert


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

tstarn said:


> With all due respect Hasan, and it's been said before here, most customers don't know a development ride from the roller coaster ride at the local amusement park.
> 
> Hey, if you are cool and calm, that's good. But others don't feel they want to be guinea pigs for D*'s experiment gone wrong. You can't blame them for that. And my HR-20 is working fine (last time I checked).


I don't blame anyone for not being happy with the current state of affairs. I do take exception with denying reality. What I wrote is accurate and verifiable. It may not be what some want to hear, but it is demonstrably true. In the face of that, we either adjust, participate, or stop using it. I feel for those who thought they were buying a "ready for prime time unit" and don't have one. I specifically told one of my close friends, "Don't get this thing (HR20), it will make you crazy. get the H20". He did, and he is very happy.

As far as being disappointed in a piece of electronics, I've been there, done that, many times. I'm simply trying to make it CLEAR where we ARE with this thing, not where we would like to be. That's why I said I'm done stating the bleeding obvious. I'm not saying be happy. I'm saying "be real". This is what we've got. WE NEED TO DEAL WITH IT.

Getting angry solves nothing. Communicating clearly and with reason has some potential to help. Dumping the unit may help some get over their frustration and disappointment. Either we are patient as we hold D*'s feet to the fire, or we can get our money back. The only other alternative is self-imposed misery. Everyone gets to choose. We do, after all, make our own beds.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

> Just have to make a comment here as I am nothing more than a lurker on this thread, not having an HR20 at the moment, but following the thread to see how the software fixes are progressing and also just for the sheer entertainment value


Thanks. It's nice to be lectured by someone that doesn't even have the box.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tstarn said:


> When I asked Earl today what would happen if this download didn't fix the three main issues it's supposed to fix, he said, with a straight face I presume, they will fix that too.


Yes, it is with a straight face I said that.... 
What are they supposed to do? They are not going to roll back to a previous version... If what they identified and fixed, isn't the fix... then basically.. they haven't fixed it yet.... just fixed one of the other symptoms.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

Guys, we really need to have some consideration here. We need to remember that the developers writing software for the HR20 are PEOPLE TOO and we are probably HURTING THEIR FEELINGS. Would you like it if someone constantly complained that your work was shoddy and sub-par? I wouldn't! I would get VERY SAD!

Can we all get together and give the HR20 developers a BIG GROUP HUG? They are obviously working VERY HARD to roll out a new release every week! That is a lot of code! It is no wonder they don't have much time to test it.

Seriously, for all of you complaining that your dvr "DOESNT WORK" or "ALWAYS CRASHES" or "CAN'T EVEN FAST FORWARD ANYMORE", suck it up! This is the way it is, and it is TOO BAD that you chose to be a DIRECTV CUSTOMER!

As Earl so eloquently put it, would you rather have FIXED BUGS or NO NEW BUGS??? Expecting BOTH is UNREASONABLES!


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## cybrsurfer (Sep 17, 2006)

matto said:


> Guys, we really need to have some consideration here. We need to remember that the developers writing software for the HR20 are PEOPLE TOO and we are probably HURTING THEIR FEELINGS. Would you like it if someone constantly complained that your work was shoddy and sub-par? I wouldn't! I would get VERY SAD!
> 
> Can we all get together and give the HR20 developers a BIG GROUP HUG? They are obviously working VERY HARD to roll out a new release every week! That is a lot of code! It is no wonder they don't have much time to test it.
> 
> ...


I agree, DirecTV will work out the problems and bugs with the new HR20. :sure:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

matto said:


> Guys, we really need to have some consideration here. We need to remember that the developers writing software for the HR20 are PEOPLE TOO and we are probably HURTING THEIR FEELINGS. Would you like it if someone constantly complained that your work was shoddy and sub-par? I wouldn't! I would get VERY SAD!
> 
> Can we all get together and give the HR20 developers a BIG GROUP HUG? They are obviously working VERY HARD to roll out a new release every week! That is a lot of code! It is no wonder they don't have much time to test it.
> 
> ...


Isn't this the place to discuss problems? Perhaps you were being sarcastic, but it's really hard to tell.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

brott said:


> Isn't this the place to discuss problems? Perhaps you were being sarcastic, but it's really hard to tell.


Really??? You can't tell??? Take if from a cynic, that is some grade A+ cynicism.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

btmoore said:


> Really??? You can't tell??? Take if from a cynic, that is some grade A+ cynicism.


Thanks. I have a great muse.


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## wg8170 (Oct 5, 2006)

jbstix said:


> My opinion - short answer Yes! We're playing the 1 step forwar 3 steps back game here...
> Now we have supposedly fixed the issue w/ missed or unviewable recordings, but now we can't even FF/RW thru the new recordings. Wow, what a great step forward.


So let me make sure I understand...you would rather have completely missed or unwatchable recordings rather than not be able to FF through a couple of commercials in an otherwise fine recording? To each his own, but my MAIN reason for having a DVR is so I don't have to be a slave to the networks schedule. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect it to be able to do both reliably, but your comment seems to reek of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

If this update really does fix the BSOD and missed recordings, then its more like 3 forward and 1 back. That "one back" will probably be a quick fix once they track down where in the code that they introduced it.

I am not neccesarily trying to defend DTV here, but I think some on this board are starting to make overly dramatic statements.

-wg


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## chicago_king (Oct 10, 2006)

Only have this box a week, I am not at the frustration level that some of the other members are, but I must say I am seeing much improvement with this latest update compared to when I first connected it. My playbacks do not freeze for me anymore which I was near re-connecting my HR10-250 again. 

I think as long as the basics work I can deal with the other issues knowing that they will eventually be fixed.

I may change my tune though if things start to pop up on me.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

wg8170 said:


> I am not neccesarily trying to defend DTV here, but I think some on this board are starting to make overly dramatic statements.


I agree completely, these people who expect fast forward to work are whining crybabies.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Howie said:


> Thanks. It's nice to be lectured by someone that doesn't even have the box.


Wow, I didn't realize this was an exclusive club in which one needed to own a HR20 in order to comment.


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## jkc120 (Sep 11, 2006)

wg8170 said:


> Is it possible, since this is a widespread problem that can be directly attributed to the update, that they would issue a "hot-fix" instead of waiting the the historical 7-10 days?


God, I hope so. I can just hear my wife tonight when we watch Lost. "Why did we get the POS thing? We NEVER had problems before. Why do we need HD?" etc, etc.

She's already pissed today since the last two days of Oprah were nuked. One was the complete lock up problem I've been having, and today the local HD feed was hosed. Even though that was clearly a feed problem, she lumps it all together and blames the HR20. In a sense it's true, since it's because of the HD channels.

Anyway, I hope they fix this FFW thing. I'm sure I'll here no end of it tonight when we go to watch a show. It happens even for older recordings from 0xD8 and prior, too. sigh.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Wow, I didn't realize this was an exclusive club in which one needed to own a HR20 in order to comment.


Your comments are certainly welcomed here by me Wolffpack, as they are usually more articulate than many here who have the HR20. Wolffpack could very well be one of the people such as myself who do have the HR20 but are having very few problems; doesn't mean you don't have the right to comment about the problems if you're not experiencing them first hand.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Couldn't really pick a post to respond directly to, so let's keep this general.

To all those that state "software development is tough", "coding this type of application is hard" and "we could be hurting someone's feelings" I say BS. If those that code devices such as this can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Would I want to do it, no. Do I, no. But for those that do this (or claim to do it) for a living that's their profession. Geez, what a bunch of cry babies. You want to give the HR20 a pass because "that's hard work" and "the teams going a good as they can"?

What about a surgeon? That's dag-gone hard work too. Stuff I couldn't ever imagine doing. But if someone chooses that as their profession they should be capable of performing that job. I can just hear it now, "well brain surgery is tough, we could cut them some slack if they loose every couple of patients.".

Just an amazing view on the situation. :nono2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

A new discussion thread about the release... and just the release.

Please... 300+ posts, and we haven't even reached primetime recording with the new software...

You can continue any of the above conversations in here... but try to move any truely release related points to the new thread.

and if you don't see yoru post here..
Means I probably moved it to the new thread.

As of tomorrow morning, I will be closing this particular thread.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A new discussion thread about the release... and just the release.
> 
> Please... 300+ posts, and we haven't even reached primetime recording with the new software...
> 
> ...


Scratch that...

What I am going to do... is go through this thread... and take out all the non-release banter... and move it to it's own thread.

Bare with me while I do this.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Scratch that...
> 
> What I am going to do... is go through this thread... and take out all the non-release banter... and move it to it's own thread.
> 
> Bare with me while I do this.


Baring with the bear... :lol:


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## pcates (Sep 20, 2006)

In reading through the thread I find it difficult to figure out what problems are still there and/or which new ones have shown up in the latest update. For the thread to be more useful to other users and the development team problems should be reported with as much info as possible. A statement like "it worked fine before now it is a POS" doesn't help anyone except the person venting. Perhaps there should be a seperate thread where everyone can vent their frustrations.

As it appears that the HR20 performs well for some users (including me) but has multiple issues for others, the bugs depend on many factors. Sometimes it may not be what you are trying to do but what you did previously or how you got to the point that gave you the problem, what data streams were being recorded, etc. 

It would be helpful to give as much detail as possible to resolve the problems for everyone. Information like: What channel, time, what was going on at the time etc. could be helpful in duplicating the problem or helpinh others avoid it

I understand the fustration everyone is having and the stress any issue might generate (I have a wife too). The problem(s) I had with earlier updates and the differences from Tivo don't bother me too much (I would have gotten the HR20 if I had to boot it from Paper Tape after a lockup) but that doesn't make it OK for everyone.

I hope all the problems are resolved on a timely basis and new feature are put in as time goes on. 

I haven't been around on the forum for long and I hope i am not out of line.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

PoitNarf said:


> Your comments are certainly welcomed here by me Wolffpack, as they are usually more articulate than many here who have the HR20. Wolffpack could very well be one of the people such as myself who do have the HR20 but are having very few problems; doesn't mean you don't have the right to comment about the problems if you're not experiencing them first hand.


I do not have a HR20. I've had a R15 for some time now and regardless if some here do or do not see the similarity between the development/debugging of these two units, they are much the same.

Myself, I have two HR10s and use OTA for all my HD. No OTA reception is a stopper for me at this point, even though MPEG4 locals are available here. I'm also holding off until the "Slimeline" starts appearing and may keep waiting until I start seeing more MPEG4 HD national channels in the lineup. With my current location there's really no need to jump on the "bleeding edge" with a HR20.

However, at the point I do take that "leap" and depending on it's status at that point, it may or may not take it's place in one of our main viewing rooms. Heck, even my R15 is still only in my office.

But as this thread is regarding the software update, I'll keep my comments to a minimum and start other threads if I feel the need. Sorry to keep this baby going OT Earl.


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## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

wg8170 said:


> So let me make sure I understand...you would rather have completely missed or unwatchable recordings rather than not be able to FF through a couple of commercials in an otherwise fine recording? To each his own, but my MAIN reason for having a DVR is so I don't have to be a slave to the networks schedule. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect it to be able to do both reliably, but your comment seems to reek of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
> 
> If this update really does fix the BSOD and missed recordings, then its more like 3 forward and 1 back. That "one back" will probably be a quick fix once they track down where in the code that they introduced it.
> 
> ...


You're right - I apologize. How dare I expect an update to fix one problem, but not expect it to cause several others. 
I should just be happy that DTV allows me the honor of paying $80+/ month and being an (unadvised) beta tester for it's new HD DVR.
Thank God, I left my HR10 active for a backup.
good luck to everyone...


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

I'm having a problem with my HR20 with this release that I have not had in the past. Whenever I try and FF in a MPEG4 recording, it freezes and does not FF. 30 second skip works. This is the case with recordings both before and after the update.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> I'm having a problem with my HR20 with this release that I have not had in the past. Whenever I try and FF in a MPEG4 recording, it freezes and does not FF. 30 second skip works. This is the case with recordings both before and after the update.


This is a new feature in the 0xDC release!
You should be thanking DirecTV for it!
How dare you complain!!!!


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## wg8170 (Oct 5, 2006)

jbstix said:


> You're right - I apologize. How dare I expect an update to fix one problem, but not expect it to cause several others.


Your reply is completely out of context with with your original post. You originally implied that you would have rather not have reliable recordings if it meant not being able to fast forward. I was saying (and still say) that that attitude is frustration-induced melo-drama. I NEVER said that you shouldn't expect both (that would be ridiculous), merely that one of those two is far more beneficial than the other.



matto said:


> I agree completely, these people who expect fast forward to work are whining crybabies.


Good Lord the jackass-ery is running high in this thread. I should have know it would be impossible to try and make a level-headed post without someone making some snide comment. See my statement above. I never implied that anybody was whining.

Everybody needs to drop the defensiveness level down a few notches.

-wg


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

wg8170 said:


> See my statement above. I never implied that anybody was whining.


I never said you did! My whole point is that all these wimps who are crying about their DVR's not working need to get a life! Nobody promised them a working product! And they will definately never get one as long as they keep hurting the DIRECTV SOFTWARES ENGINEERS' feelings with their MEAN TALK and COMPLAINTS.


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## wg8170 (Oct 5, 2006)

Before anybody thinks that I am some kind of DTV apologist, take note that I have my share of complaints with the box as well. For instance, we are trying to watch Lost time-shifted right now. Unfortunately we are have a torrential thunderstorm. The "Searching for signal" box is completely blocking Jin's english subtitles.  
Also have issues with ShowtimeHD and UniversalHD. At least I'm not paying for ShoHD yet. Just trying not to over-react. 

-wg


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## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

wg8170 said:


> The "Searching for signal" box is completely blocking Jin's english subtitles.
> -wg


Agreed. It's ridiculous that this message appears on a recorded show. I can undersand it with a live show since there is nothing to watch, but for a recorded show, you should be able to disable it. BTW - another fantastic episode of Lost.


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## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

wg8170 said:


> I was saying (and still say) that that attitude is frustration-induced melo-drama.
> 
> -wg


You stay in this thread and keep psycho analyzing everyones posts. And saying you're one of the few making level headed posts. (bs)
The problem with forum, emails, text msg, etc. is that you have no idea what kind of inflection good, or bad someone is intending. 
I haven't had an attitude or any kind of "melo-drama'. If you read my earlier posts I stated I didn't want to offend anyone, I was just needing to vent some frustratiion - DBSTalk.com forum seemed like the appropriate place for that...
I'm done here, I'm back in the software forum posting on what I found tonight with the MPEG HD feeds so far.

btw - matto you are killin' me... LOL :lol:

good luck to everyone 
later


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

wg8170 said:


> Before anybody thinks that I am some kind of DTV apologist, take note that I have my share of complaints with the box as well. For instance, we are trying to watch Lost time-shifted right now. Unfortunately we are have a torrential thunderstorm. The "Searching for signal" box is completely blocking Jin's english subtitles.
> Also have issues with ShowtimeHD and UniversalHD. At least I'm not paying for ShoHD yet. Just trying not to over-react.
> 
> -wg


The "searching for signal" message while watching a recorded show has been mentioned on the R15 side for many, many months. Why this cannot be fixed on either the R15 or HR20 is beyond all reason.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So you are saying... even though this fix should eliminate Blank Recordings, Corrupted Recordings, and Missed Scheduled Recordings... they should sit on it for 2-3 more weeks, while they fix the FF Pixel and Loop Frame..


That is exactly what they should be doing. That is precisely the course of action that we would take where I work. It's always best to sit on software until it is debugged and well tested. Sure, you will always have a segment of people that want everything, yesterday. However, you will please a whole lot more people by delivering better quality even if they have to wait for it. And... eventually, the people who wanted what they wanted yesterday, will get what they want and get over having had to wait for it.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

BillyT2002 said:


> That is exactly what they should be doing. That is precisely the course of action that we would take where I work. It's always best to sit on software until it is debugged and well tested. Sure, you will always have a segment of people that want everything, yesterday. However, you will please a whole lot more people by delivering better quality even if they have to wait for it. And... eventually, the people who wanted what they wanted yesterday, will get what they want and get over having had to wait for it.


The logic behind releasing DVR software where fast forward and rewind don't work is inexplicable. What is next, a release that fixes FFWD and REW, but can only display a picture of Barney on the screen?

Give me a break. Giving customers a tradeoff like this is an utter joke. Asking us which we'd _rather_ have is pathetic. We'd _rather_ have the DVR and programming we paid for.


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## Twosted (Sep 18, 2006)

matto said:


> We'd _rather_ have the DVR and programming we paid for.


You know you didn't pay for your DVR. And even if you didn't have it you would still be paying for your programing. This is what I don't understand. Maybe because this is my first DVR. I didn't pay anything (except $20 S&H) for this DVR and I didn't have one before this. So I have gained the ability to record programs, I was already used to the UI because I have had the H20 for a year now, and it seems to me that the picture quality is better with the HR20. Are there problems, yea, but nothing drastic. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones. I have had it for almost 2 months and have only done 2 resets and lost one recording. For a free device and gaining abilities I never had I would say it is a fair tradeoff. And it's not like D* is sitting on thier butts not doing anything. We have gotten software updates every week and Earl has kept us pretty well informed. I can understand the frustrations but I think D* is doing a good job.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Matto -

I never said anything about offering customers any kind of a trade-off. I'm simply saying that D* should change their software development philosophy to one where fixing problems takes priority over adding new features (which they seem to be doing anyway) and where any update is more than adequately tested before it is released to the general public. No company should release software with "known issues". People should have to wait as long as it takes to get new software and that software should be of much better quality when it is finally released.

There are two kinds of testing that DirecTV could employ. Unit tests should be written to test each and every DVR function and method written (the core engine of the software) and ideally before said function or method is written. These tests are written using the same software devlelopment language(s) and tool(s) used to develop the software and should be run by the developers after developing new software and the software should not be passed to QA until all of the unit tests pass.

QA should write acceptance tests to automate testing each part of the user interface. Acceptance tests can also be written to quickly reproduce problems found with the software when it is resubmitted to the development team.

This is precisely how we develop software on my team and I can tell you it works. In the past four years we have been using these methods to develop and test our software and our software releases are virtually problem free now.

Our products our leased to medical clinics throughout the country. We also write interfaces to real-time and batched medical instrumentation and we have employed the techniques I describe to all of our software.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Twosted said:


> You know you didn't pay for your DVR. And even if you didn't have it you would still be paying for your programing. This is what I don't understand. Maybe because this is my first DVR. I didn't pay anything (except $20 S&H) for this DVR and I didn't have one before this. So I have gained the ability to record programs, I was already used to the UI because I have had the H20 for a year now, and it seems to me that the picture quality is better with the HR20. Are there problems, yea, but nothing drastic. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones. I have had it for almost 2 months and have only done 2 resets and lost one recording. For a free device and gaining abilities I never had I would say it is a fair tradeoff. And it's not like D* is sitting on thier butts not doing anything. We have gotten software updates every week and Earl has kept us pretty well informed. I can understand the frustrations but I think D* is doing a good job.


That's great Twosted, you are thus the DTV DVR+ poster boy. You don't expect much and don't demand much. You're happy with what you get. DTV can't ask for a better customer.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Wow Billy, you must be in the wrong forum here. Remember, this is DTV here. Key words..."Instant satisfaction". New Release = happy customers. If happy customers eventually find problems, just tell them the next release will be out the end of the week and fix all of their problems, which of course = happy customers. Where do you get this strange idea you call "testing"?


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Sorry - I am just providing my advice to DirecTV in case they might be listening. Testing is always a good idea and I thought it might behoove someone there to read about the types of software testing which can and should be done. The bottom line is that it is not too late for DirecTV to adopt better coding and testing standards. In fact if now is almost the perfect time. Getting caught up on writing the various tests(s), which I have described in a post above this one, for the software which has already been written will be the most time-consuming part. However, once that is done, testing will become much easier for them going forward.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, it is with a straight face I said that....
> What are they supposed to do? They are not going to roll back to a previous version... If what they identified and fixed, isn't the fix... then basically.. they haven't fixed it yet.... just fixed one of the other symptoms.


They fixed the caller ID bug for me. I've not seen the lock up bug I had been where if I start to play a recorded program, hit 30 second slip (I really dislike the slowness of that thing--my disdain for it is growing as I use it more) it would freeze up and to get out I'd have to FF faster.

I don't have MPEG4 HD channels so can't test any bugs specific to that.

I have had some blackouts for about 3 or 4 seconds on Bikini Destinations but that could be due to lost signal.


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Just a comment, after reading all the FF/REW complaints on the software thread I determined I find it hard to have sympathy for people who are complaing about problems with their MPEG4 recordings, considering we don't even HAVE it yet! :grin: 

You folks may be having problems with the recordings but consider yourselves lucky you are actually able to watch HD locals in the first place! Technically I can as well since my HDTV has a tuner and I have an antenna, but as far as the HR20 is concerned HD locals don't even exist in my house! I guess all complaints are relative though, eh?


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Aye. It should become a rule that every person that asks Earl about OTA from this point on needs to buy him a beer.


I think we should make a MAN LAW to that effect. Maybe Earl wouldn't be badgered so much. :lol:


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## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Twosted said:


> You know you didn't pay for your DVR. And even if you didn't have it you would still be paying for your programing. This is what I don't understand. Maybe because this is my first DVR. I didn't pay anything (except $20 S&H) for this DVR and I didn't have one before this. So I have gained the ability to record programs, I was already used to the UI because I have had the H20 for a year now, and it seems to me that the picture quality is better with the HR20. Are there problems, yea, but nothing drastic. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones. I have had it for almost 2 months and have only done 2 resets and lost one recording. For a free device and gaining abilities I never had I would say it is a fair tradeoff. And it's not like D* is sitting on thier butts not doing anything. We have gotten software updates every week and Earl has kept us pretty well informed. I can understand the frustrations but I think D* is doing a good job.


I sure as hell paid for mine - and will continue to pay for it for the next 2 years.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Mike Huss said:


> Just a comment, after reading all the FF/REW complaints on the software thread I determined I find it hard to have sympathy for people who are complaing about problems with their MPEG4 recordings, considering we don't even HAVE it yet! :grin:
> 
> You folks may be having problems with the recordings but consider yourselves lucky you are actually able to watch HD locals in the first place! Technically I can as well since my HDTV has a tuner and I have an antenna, but as far as the HR20 is concerned HD locals don't even exist in my house! I guess all complaints are relative though, eh?


.. and if YOU were the one who had MPEG4 locals and WE didn't, would YOU expect "sympathy?!" I don't really care whether I get sympathy from anyone other than D* anyway. And I hope that they are "listening" to the pages of complaints and problems that they have created with this latest software release!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> .. and if YOU were the one who had MPEG4 locals and WE didn't, would YOU expect "sympathy?!" I don't really care whether I get sympathy from anyone other than D* anyway. And I hope that they are "listening" to the pages of complaints and problems that they have created with this latest software release!


They understand.. that the FF Loop freeze is a pain... seriously... they do.
But they also understand how much of a pain, and actually more of an issue... TOTALLY FAILED RECORDINGS where, that couldn't be watched at any speed.

Seriously, don't sit there and think... oh... no one will notice... no one is going to care if the FF is pixelizing, and possible will Loop on a frame.


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