# HBO & composite cables



## horace clark (Nov 22, 2007)

SD tv in garage connected to hr20 via composite cables. Press and hold exit button to watch tv. No problem until today trying to watch HBO. Get message that the program is content protected. I can view every other channel except HBO. This wasn't the case last week. Something new?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"horace clark" said:


> SD tv in garage connected to hr20 via composite cables. Press and hold exit button to watch tv. No problem until today trying to watch HBO. Get message that the program is content protected. I can view every other channel except HBO. This wasn't the case last week. Something new?


My composite is working for hbo. Just checked. HR21 and H24.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

Mine is working as well as can be expected also. Someone else posted on another thread about component and HBO. You might try restarting your DVR.


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## horace clark (Nov 22, 2007)

Just did a reboot. Still get the same message.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

I've checked both my HR20's and they work fine. What software version is yours on.


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## horace clark (Nov 22, 2007)

"samrs" said:


> I've checked both my HR20's and they work fine. What software version is yours on.


0x59e


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HBO pushing to "analog sunset" starting from composite analog output...


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Noticed something strange this week also regarding HBO. Although my Sony is connected via HDMI I get the message that my "set is not compatible with....."displayed too briefly to read in its entirety. It is displayed when changing between HBO channels. Same TV, same HR20 for nearly six years, never a problem prior to this.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

Turn on the TV that the HDMI cable is connected to, or if the cable is just hanging on the back of the IRD, remove it and things should work. The ird can't confirm that the device that the HDMI cable is plugged into is a HDCP compliant TV and that's what the error is about.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

hanging HDMI cable has same HW 'value' as HDMI slot itself - so, it is not a factor here


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

Looking at some tech tips on a DirecTv site it appears that they have introduced HDCP content protection on the premium movie channels this month. It should only affect older model HDTV's that aren't HDCP compliant connected via HDMI. The work around is to use component cables and to remove the HDMI cable.

Why would this be affecting your composite connected TV. Who Knows!

Try disconnecting the HDMI cable from the back of your HR20.

"Analog sunset" doesn't apply to cable and satellite STB's, I don't think.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

hbo and cinemax just enabled hdcp....showtime and starz to follow


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## amenic (Apr 9, 2012)

HBO is changing, adding copywrite protection to its channels. It's supposed to be something that only effects HDMI connections to tvs that are too old to have proper HDCP protection, but this could conceivably affect other types of connections. HBO and Cinemax just started doing this and Starz and Showtime are slated to follow later this month. Other channels may follow, at the digression of their owners.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Do you have another TV connected to the same receiver?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

samrs said:


> Looking at some tech tips on a DirecTv site it appears that they have introduced HDCP content protection on the premium movie channels this month. It should only affect older model HDTV's that aren't HDCP compliant connected via HDMI. The work around is to use component cables and to remove the HDMI cable.
> 
> Why would this be affecting your composite connected TV. Who Knows!


With HDMI and composite connected the receiver is expecting an HDMI handshake that his HDCP compliant. If the TV hooked up via HDMI is not turned on that handshake won't happen.



samrs said:


> "Analog sunset" doesn't apply to cable and satellite STB's, I don't think.


It does.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> With HDMI and composite connected the receiver is expecting an HDMI handshake that his HDCP compliant. If the TV hooked up via HDMI is not turned on that handshake won't happen.
> 
> It does.


Well thats an easy fix.

I am open to education, I googled and it mostly concerned bluerays with exclusions for STB's. Links would be good. TIA.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

samrs said:


> I am open to education, I googled and it mostly concerned bluerays with exclusions for STB's. Links would be good. TIA.


Search this site. There was a lengthy thread on it quite a while back.


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

After reading this thread, I thought I'd check the TVs on my system. I have one TV that is being fed its signal from the DIRECTV box via a MyWirelessTV wireless transmitter. When I tune that TV to HBO, I get the non-HDCP compliant message. I know that the TV is, in fact, HDCP compliant, and, if I connect the TV directly to a DIRECTV receiver, HBO shows fine. Thus, it would seem that something related to the wireless transmitter is the cause of the signal being blocked. 

If anybody can suggest a workaround that will allow me to continue to use the wireless transmitter, I'd appreciate it. The wireless transmitter has only HDMI ports on both the receiver and the transmitter. My first thought is to try to replace the HDMI cable going from the DIRECTV box to the wireless transmitter with a component to HDMI cable coming from the component outputs of the DIRECTV box to the HDMI port on the transmitter, but, before I spend the money on the cable, it would be nice to know if it has a chance of working.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Call your transmitter manufacturer and complain - perhaps they would make new FW for it with non-revoked key.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Search this site. There was a lengthy thread on it quite a while back.


Thanks I searched, "analog sunset" "RunnerFL" "The Merq" and "Earl Bonovich" I didnt get any hits, everything else was mere speculation. I'll roll with what I read on the FCC Website.


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

P Smith said:


> Call your transmitter manufacturer and complain - perhaps they would make new FW for it with non-revoked key.


Subsequent to my posting above, I experimented a bit and discovered that the HBO signal will come through fine on the remote TV that the wireless transmitter is transmitting to IF I also have the TV that has a wired connection to the same DIRECTV DVR turned on. Thus, I'm guessing that the issue is that, unless a successful handshake is negotiated between the DIRECTV box and the hard wired TV, the signal is being blocked to the remote TV getting its signal wirelessly. So, what I need to figure out is how to get the signal to work on the remote TV without having to have the TV that has the wired connection turned on.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You don't know for sure (is your working config means two HDMI output from one DTV DVR ?) what is culprit if dual output working OK.


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

P Smith said:


> You don't know for sure (is your working config means two HDMI output from one DTV DVR ?) what is culprit if dual output working OK.


The HDMI output from the DIRECTV DVR feeds into the HDMI input for the MyWirelessTV transmitter. Then, the transmitter has an HDMI output that feeds the TV in the same room, and the signal is wirelessly transmitted to the remote TV. Until the change with HBO and HDCP, it had worked great with both the local and remote TVs, and it still works fine with channels other than the HBO channels. After doing a Google search, I've found others who are having the same issue since the HBO/HDCP change, but I have not found anyone who has a solution. It appears that there is a successful handshake between the local TV and the DVR if the local TV is turned on, and, if that happens, the signal will go to both the local and remote TVS, but, if the local TV is turned off, the handshake is not completed, and signal will not go to the remote TV.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I got it - one side of the wireless has HDMI output, like a replicator.

Anyway, it's matter of manufacturer's responsibility. I would contact them.


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

P Smith said:


> I got it - one side of the wireless has HDMI output, like a replicator.
> 
> Anyway, it's matter of manufacturer's responsibility. I would contact them.


I did submit a support request earlier today to the manufacturer of the transmitter. I was not, however, encouraged when one of the Google search items that I found was a thread on the DIRECTV support forums. Others reported the same issue, and those who had contacted the transmitter manufacturer were not able to get a solution from them.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

samrs said:


> Thanks I searched, "analog sunset" "RunnerFL" "The Merq" and "Earl Bonovich" I didnt get any hits, everything else was mere speculation. I'll roll with what I read on the FCC Website.


Try harder next time...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=129334


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## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

lesz said:


> After doing a Google search, I've found others who are having the same issue since the HBO/HDCP change, but I have not found anyone who has a solution. It appears that there is a successful handshake between the local TV and the DVR if the local TV is turned on, and, if that happens, the signal will go to both the local and remote TVS, but, if the local TV is turned off, the handshake is not completed, and signal will not go to the remote TV.


Just reference this thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=189770

Actually, the solution is rather simple. The DVR just needs to "see" an actively powered valid HDCP compliant device attached to its HDMI output to get rid of the message. Just attach a HDMI powered splitter or switch which is HDCP compliant to the DVR's HDMI output like this:

DVR HDMI output -> HDMI powered splitter/switch (HDCP compliant) -> your TV's HDMI input or other HMDI input devices.

This will work whether your TV is off or on because the splitter or switch stays powered on all the time. You can find these at monoprice ranging from $25 to $50. Just make sure it's a powered splitter or switch.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Try harder next time...
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=129334


Thanks, there was so much V-Bulletin dust on that thread it made my VelociRaptor wheeze. Tom's second post is pretty much the same as DirecTv's April Tech Bulletin.


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## bldxyz (Aug 18, 2006)

tritch said:


> Just reference this thread:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=189770
> 
> Actually, the solution is rather simple. The DVR just needs to "see" an actively powered valid HDCP compliant device attached to its HDMI output to get rid of the message. Just attach a HDMI powered splitter or switch which is HDCP compliant to the DVR's HDMI output like this:
> ...


This seems worth it to me. I can't watch HBO now, or, I get to watch all of my TV content over Component video. Really? Component?

I can't figure out exactly which splitter to get, though. Monoprice may be a great lead, I just don't know which one to get. Does anyone have one that works well?


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

tritch said:


> Just reference this thread:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=189770
> 
> Actually, the solution is rather simple. The DVR just needs to "see" an actively powered valid HDCP compliant device attached to its HDMI output to get rid of the message. Just attach a HDMI powered splitter or switch which is HDCP compliant to the DVR's HDMI output like this:
> ...


Thanks much for the help. Your suggestion certainly seems to make sense, and I'll be giving it a try as soon as I can get a powered HDMI splitter.



bldxyz said:


> This seems worth it to me. I can't watch HBO now, or, I get to watch all of my TV content over Component video. Really? Component?
> 
> I can't figure out exactly which splitter to get, though. Monoprice may be a great lead, I just don't know which one to get. Does anyone have one that works well?


I was looking at these two products.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=3#specification

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...011306&p_id=8154&seq=1&format=3#specification

The first doesn't mention HDCP in its specifications, but, in one of the user reviews, it does say that it worked to stop a similar issue with a cable company's signal. The second one does mention HDCP in its specifications.

Any input regarding whether either of these two should work and/or other suggested products would be appreciated. 
Thanks.


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## AquiringSat (Jan 7, 2012)

Yeah this is NOT GOOD, I'm getting this: "Your tv does not support this program's content protection. Replacing the TV's HDMI cable with a component cable will allow you to view the program." on my HBO's and Cinemax's I'm watching at work on my slingbox, so I guess I'll just remove the HDMI cable when I get home, but This is pretty crappy in my opinion. :new_puppy


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

As a follow-up to my previous posts in this thread, I have subsequently discovered another/easier solution to my issue with the HDCP-non-compliant message with the MyWirelessTV transmitter. If anyone else is having the same issue, he/she might want to try what worked for me. First, use the re-set button to re-set both the transmitter and receiver to factory defaults. Then, make sure that you have updated the firmware on both the transmitter and receiver to the latest firmware version. That version is 1.0.2.40. When I did that, the HBO signal came through fine on both the hard-wired TV and on the remote TV getting the wireless signal.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

See post#19... deja vu ?


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## dndell (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm having a program restriced message problem also - just with HBO and Cinemax (HBOZHD alone had this problem a month earlier). I have an HR21 Directv DVR connected via HDMI to an Epson 5010 Projector for nightime fiewing and component-connected to an LCD tv that I use for daytime viewing (ambient light). 

To folks just starting to get this message, the Directv message is confusing because it suggests connecting via component, but it actually gets that message only on the component connection (LCD tv). If HDMI is connected (to the projector, even though it's powered off), then the component won't work. Disconnect the HDMI, then it will work. I did order an HDMI splitter from Monoprice - thanks for the suggestion. 

If the industry wants to kill analog connections, then I do think the distributors (cable & satellite) have some responsibility to support their customers by providing DVRs with dual-HDMI outputs, and not just HDMI & Component. Not even the most expensive Tivo box offers 2 HDMI outs currently. I'm not sure how big the base of dual-display owners are, so I guess we're on our own for now.


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## bldxyz (Aug 18, 2006)

Gah!

I'm getting the "HDMI not permitted" message, and yet, my television's manual clearly lists "HDCP Compliant" in the specifications. I have a Toshiba 34HFX84.

I think there's something going on that's not right.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Article--DirecTV Blocks HBO Over HDMI


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Article--DirecTV Blocks HBO Over HDMI


You left out the key part to the title - (without HDCP).


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I didn't leave anything out; I just didn't include it, because at the time, it wasn't part of the title.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

It was my understanding that HDMI without HDCP doesn't exist. However, many devices from the early years of HDMI did not properly handle HDCP, with incompatibilities between brands and defective transceivers rampant. Sony replaced my KDS-R60XBR1 when it could not deal with the HDMI output of a Sony ES receiver, though handled a direct feed of my HR10 just fine. The slightly newer unit worked fine.

Edit: Apparently it is allowed to implement HDMI without HDCP, but I'd be astonished if any consumer equipment did so.

So what I guess we are seeing here is some TVs not properly handling HDCP or some aspect of the modified HDCP signal being put out by the sat box. I will have to see if my TV is similarly affected - haven't tried to watch HBO recently.

Edit: HBO-HD works fine on both my HR21 and THR22.


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## horace clark (Nov 22, 2007)

To sum it up. If you have more than one tv connected to a receiver than the tv connected with hdmi must be on or disconnected in order to watch on secondary tv regardless of connection. Composite or component.


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## aandjw (Nov 30, 2005)

My issue is that I use an HDMI to DVI converter at the TV that had no issues until today. The HDMI cable is in the wall so converting to component cables doesn't seem to be practical.....


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## JohnDG (Aug 16, 2006)

horace clark said:


> View attachment 28909
> 
> 
> To sum it up. If you have more than one tv connected to a receiver than the tv connected with hdmi must be on or disconnected in order to watch on secondary tv regardless of connection. Composite or component.


So... for people with older TVs...

For one DVR, if I have one TV connected via component, and another TV connected via SVideo, this doesn't apply? (all analog)

And this doesn't apply to setups that that have a single component connection?

jdg


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## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

JohnDG said:


> So... for people with older TVs...
> 
> For one DVR, if I have one TV connected via component, and another TV connected via SVideo, this doesn't apply? (all analog)
> 
> ...


That's correct....if no HDMI cable is connected to that DVR, you won't run into this problem.


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## jtbell (Nov 24, 2008)

So to recap, it will be incumbent on some owners to spend additional money to receive programming they are paying for.

For me personally, should *any* of my TV's that I am paying for HBO, starz, etc, not be able to receive the signals I pay for, I will immediately discontinue that service.

I mean really, when was the last time HBO had something on worth pirating?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

jtbell said:


> I mean really, when was the last time HBO had something on worth pirating?


I just started laughing when I read this. By the time it gets to HBO, its been on the pirate sites for months, or is available for streaming.

I'm with you, if I cant watch it using the analog connections hooked to my HTPC, its getting turned off.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

aandjw said:


> My issue is that I use an HDMI to DVI converter at the TV that had no issues until today. The HDMI cable is in the wall so converting to component cables doesn't seem to be practical.....


Yes, most DVI devices are not HDCP compliant.....


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jtbell said:


> ...
> 
> I mean really, when was the last time HBO had something on worth pirating?


Every Sunday night, pretty much. Their original programming is pretty popular and, IMO, quite good. Last year, HBO received 104 Primetime Emmy® nominations, the most of any network for the 11th year in a row.


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## sdirv (Dec 14, 2008)

jtbell said:


> I mean really, when was the last time HBO had something on worth pirating?


Welll.......wife and I get to the point where we burn stuff off to DVD just so we can watch it later (even with a whole home system and 2 HD-DVR's). Seemed like the vid quality was pretty decent when it was being played back in HD. Now the system tells me to hold down the exit button until the dvr switches over to SD, and the recording quality then is pretty ordinary D* SD.

Running a recording right now without routing it through the DVD recorder to see if the output ports are turned off when HD is on (they never were before). We'll see if the recording quality is any better.


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## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

lesz said:


> As a follow-up to my previous posts in this thread, I have subsequently discovered another/easier solution to my issue with the HDCP-non-compliant message with the MyWirelessTV transmitter. If anyone else is having the same issue, he/she might want to try what worked for me. First, use the re-set button to re-set both the transmitter and receiver to factory defaults. Then, make sure that you have updated the firmware on both the transmitter and receiver to the latest firmware version. That version is 1.0.2.40. When I did that, the HBO signal came through fine on both the hard-wired TV and on the remote TV getting the wireless signal.


And again, to emphasize what's really key here is that the DirecTV HD DVR needs to negotiate the handshake with an active/powered HDCP compliant device, whether it be a TV or HDMI switch or splitter. I've been using the MyWirelessTV system with the current firware version but still had issues as I talked about here > http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2997526#post2997526 but what I've discovered is that the 3x1 HDMI switch I was using was the culprit as it was not HDCP compliant, unbeknownst to me at the time. I've since swapped it out with a 4x2 HDMI matrix switch from Monoprice and no longer have the issue I had when tuning to HBO from my remote TV despite not having the MyWirelessTV transmitter hardwired to the local TV.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

jtbell said:


> I mean really, when was the last time HBO had something on worth pirating?


HBO is known much more now for their original programming than the movies.

Game of Thrones, True Blood, etc, etc show up on HBO before they show up anywhere else because they own that content.


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## aandjw (Nov 30, 2005)

Is this a content discussion or a technical forum....lol.

We can debate until the end of time about the value of HBO. I prefer not to be divorced because the Mrs can't watch her shows on the big TV. No real solution for me unless I run composite cables up the outside of the wall (truly ugly) or buy a new TV. And I hate the way D* has handled this (problem? What problem?).

Sorry to whine.....


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## jackal24 (Nov 18, 2008)

Can anyone confirm that HBO is only being output at 540p via composite?


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## jackal24 (Nov 18, 2008)

I mean component.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

jackal24 said:


> Can anyone confirm that HBO is only being output at 540p via composite?


Component Video OUT is capable of providing both 720p and 1080i HD resolutions.


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## jackal24 (Nov 18, 2008)

"litzdog911" said:


> Component Video OUT is capable of providing both 720p and 1080i HD resolutions.


I understand that, but several of the blogs reporting on the recent HBO HDMI restrictions have said that HBO over component is being artificially limited to 540p.


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## Combat Medic (Jul 27, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> Component Video OUT is capable of providing both 720p and 1080i HD resolutions.


Technically it is capable of 1080p as well. Just nobody outputs content over component at that resolution.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

jackal24 said:


> I understand that, but several of the blogs reporting on the recent HBO HDMI restrictions have said that HBO over component is being artificially limited to 540p.


Not true. And there's no such thing as "540p" on these devices.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

That blog may be incorrectly reporting 1080i as "540p", making it very suspect as to any accuracy. More of the tin hat brigade stuff when I read stupidity like that. Of course component has never transmitted 1080p.


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## Combat Medic (Jul 27, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> That blog may be incorrectly reporting 1080i as "540p", making it very suspect as to any accuracy. More of the tin hat brigade stuff when I read stupidity like that. Of course component has never transmitted 1080p.


Never is a really long time. XBox 360 will output 1080p over Component.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

CCarncross said:


> That blog may be incorrectly reporting 1080i as "540p", making it very suspect as to any accuracy. More of the tin hat brigade stuff when I read stupidity like that. Of course component has never transmitted 1080p.


There is no such physical limitation.

Perhaps very bad component cable could degrade the signal, but not prevent.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Combat Medic said:


> Never is a really long time. XBox 360 will output 1080p over Component.





P Smith said:


> There is no such physical limitation.
> 
> Perhaps very bad component cable could degrade the signal, but not prevent.


Just for clarity, in the consumer equipment context, when you say "1080p," it always refers to [email protected]?

Whereas [email protected] outside of maybe inside or in facility professional broadcast studio distribution (or "3G"), is not normally used by consumer gear?


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## BobStokesbary (Oct 24, 2010)

A bit of knowledge about the HDCP requirements may clarify this situation. You can find it here. Once HDCP is activated any non-compliant connection (read this as component) will be reduced to DVD quality. It is that simple. Everything you knew about component connections is about to change.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> Just for clarity, in the consumer equipment context, when you say "1080p," it always refers to [email protected]?
> 
> Whereas [email protected] outside of maybe inside or in facility professional broadcast studio distribution (or "3G"), is not normally used by consumer gear?


- so far it's true for movies
- using by game consoles, computer video cards


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

BobStokesbary said:


> A bit of knowledge about the HDCP requirements may clarify this situation. You can find it here. Once HDCP is activated any non-compliant connection (read this as component) will be reduced to DVD quality. It is that simple. Everything you knew about component connections is about to change.


At this point DirecTV is not "down rezzing" the Component Video output when the HDMI connection fails its HDCP handshake. But that's certainly something they might be forced to do in the future.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

BobStokesbary said:


> A bit of knowledge about the HDCP requirements may clarify this situation. You can find it here. Once HDCP is activated any non-compliant connection (read this as component) will be reduced to DVD quality. It is that simple. Everything you knew about component connections is about to change.


You're a bit mixed up here. This isn't HDCP it is ICT (Image Constraint Token). If the ICT flag is set on then the device must downscale HD video to 480p. As far as I know not a single TV provider has talked about using the ICT flag. That doesn't mean they might not do it eventually, but I don't expect it to happen for at least a couple of years.

Blu-Ray manufacturers however have started talking about it and the studios are supposedly going to start turning the ICT flag on with newer Blu-Ray releases sometime soon (2013 I think). So future Blu-Rays will start doing this and they will be downscaled to 480p. I believe the only Blu-Ray that has had the ICT flag set so far was one of the Resident Evil movies released in Europe and the movie studio said that it was only done on accident and I believe they offered free replacment discs to people who were affected.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

texasbrit said:


> Do you have another TV connected to the same receiver?


This was my problem. For YEARS I have used 2 receivers with 2 TV's in the same room but I used both HDMI and Component hook ups to both TV's so I could switch how I wanted. I started getting this message on the TV I was using with the Component connection. It told me to use component even though I already was. One TV is a new Pannasonic ST50, a 2012 model so it is not the TV. When hooked the receivers up separate, one to each TV the problem goes away. I use Component on the Vizo TV because of the slingbox and HDMI on the New Panasonic. This really chaps my you know what. If both inputs are active and supposedly able to be used then I should be able to use them. I could until this HDCP started.


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## rcarnley (Jul 23, 2008)

I got a KINIVO HDMI powered switch to try to resolve this issue. It did not work. The switch is supposedly HDCP compliant but I have to disconnect the power from the switch in order to use the standard TV. That is easier than unplugging and replugging the HDMI cable but still not ideal. I have 2 TV's hooked to my HR-24. One via the HDMI cable and one with analog cables, but you probably guessed that.


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

did they put on the Encore channels also?


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## rcarnley (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes. They did. That is what we have along with Starz. When they switched it on we started getting the problem.


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## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

rcarnley said:


> I got a KINIVO HDMI powered switch to try to resolve this issue. It did not work. The switch is supposedly HDCP compliant but I have to disconnect the power from the switch in order to use the standard TV. That is easier than unplugging and replugging the HDMI cable but still not ideal. I have 2 TV's hooked to my HR-24. One via the HDMI cable and one with analog cables, but you probably guessed that.


I was using the Kinivo 3x1 HDMI switch and also had issues with HDCP. I returned it and I'm now using this 4X2 True Matrix HDMI switch from Monoprice > http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5312&seq=1&format=2. I have two DirecTV HR2x DVRs and a Roku box connected to it and my system is much more stable. When I put on an HDCP channel like HBO the troubling HDCP messsage will flash just momentarily until the HDMI handshake is confirmed but will then allow the program to display on the component video connected TV. In addition to component video I also had the HR21-100 connected via composite.

I recently replaced the analog set with a small LCD so the composite video connection is no longer needed and I also disconnected the component video cables (with the 4x2 HDMI I no longer need component) from the HR2x HD DVRs and switching between devices is much faster now. I realize that if you're using composite to feed an older analog TV this will not be an option for you but even with composite and component video cables connected, this switch worked where the Kinivo didn't. YMMV.


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## carl.066 (Jul 24, 2008)

I was led to believe that a powered HDCP-compliant splitter was all that was needed to supply the necessary EDID handshake back to the DirecTV box. I checked with one manufacturer, Sewell, and they confirmed that this was NOT the case. The splitter will simply pass the handshake info from one or both HDMI devices that it is connected to back to the DirecTV receiver. This will then allow the receiver to output the HDMI programming through all its analog ports as well. but at least one of the HDMI devices on the output side of the splitter has to be on.

I have an H21 with the HDMI output connected to a local TV and the component video output connected to my Slingbox. When I'm away, the local TV has to be on in order for the Slingbox to get a signal on HBO, Cinemax, etc. 

If anyone has a solution other than leaving a TV or other display device on at all times, please let us know.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

carl.066 said:


> I was led to believe that a powered HDCP-compliant splitter was all that was needed to supply the necessary EDID handshake back to the DirecTV box. I checked with one manufacturer, Sewell, and they confirmed that this was NOT the case. The splitter will simply pass the handshake info from one or both HDMI devices that it is connected to back to the DirecTV receiver. This will then allow the receiver to output the HDMI programming through all its analog ports as well. but at least one of the HDMI devices on the output side of the splitter has to be on.
> 
> I have an H21 with the HDMI output connected to a local TV and the component video output connected to my Slingbox. When I'm away, the local TV has to be on in order for the Slingbox to get a signal on HBO, Cinemax, etc.
> 
> If anyone has a solution other than leaving a TV or other display device on at all times, please let us know.


Just disconnect the HDMI from your H21 while you're away.


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## JohnDG (Aug 16, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Just disconnect the HDMI from your H21 while you're away.


Would a mechanical HDMI switch accomplish the same thing (switching to a port with no connection)? My understanding is that HDMI cables do not take a lot of abuse.

jdg


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

JohnDG said:


> Would a mechanical HDMI switch accomplish the same thing (switching to a port with no connection)? My understanding is that HDMI cables do not take a lot of abuse.
> 
> jdg


No, as long as the DVR detects and HDMI cable attached it will attempt an HDCP handshake.


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## carl.066 (Jul 24, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Just disconnect the HDMI from your H21 while you're away.


For me, this is not practical. While I'm gone, others in the household may want to use the TV connected with HDMI.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

carl.066 said:


> For me, this is not practical. While I'm gone, others in the household may want to use the TV connected with HDMI.


This is the demand that broadcasters have made, not DirecTV, so complain to them.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

carl.066 said:


> I was led to believe that a powered HDCP-compliant splitter was all that was needed to supply the necessary EDID handshake back to the DirecTV box. I checked with one manufacturer, Sewell, and they confirmed that this was NOT the case. The splitter will simply pass the handshake info from one or both HDMI devices that it is connected to back to the DirecTV receiver. This will then allow the receiver to output the HDMI programming through all its analog ports as well. but at least one of the HDMI devices on the output side of the splitter has to be on.
> 
> I have an H21 with the HDMI output connected to a local TV and the component video output connected to my Slingbox. When I'm away, the local TV has to be on in order for the Slingbox to get a signal on HBO, Cinemax, etc.
> 
> If anyone has a solution other than leaving a TV or other display device on at all times, please let us know.


Does your slingbox have component pass thru? If so you can hook that TV up over component using the passthru on the slingbox instead of using HDMI.

Also, just because Sewell says that is how their HDMI switch works, doesn't mean that is how all of them work. I'm fairly certain people have reported on here that they were able to get the Monoprice HDMI switches to work just fine.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> This is the demand that broadcasters have made, not DirecTV, so complain to them.


Plain stupid. 

Say, You got a Sharp TV, it doesn't work well because of "Muthsui" bad capacitors. 
Well - you must complain to the "Mithsui" ! Duh !

You get an agreement with the provider for a service and an equipment, it's full responsibility of the company. 
No need to point to others (do you have proof of that ? No ! Then it would be your opinion, not a fact).


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I think we are pretty safe to assume it was HBO who told DirecTV to implement these HDCP changes since we are now seeing people having similar issues with HBO and other movie channels on other providers like Comcast, TWC, etc.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

P Smith said:


> Plain stupid.
> 
> Say, You got a Sharp TV, it doesn't work well because of "Muthsui" bad capacitors.
> Well - you must complain to the "Mithsui" ! Duh !
> ...


HDCP comes from the content providers


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Plain stupid.
> 
> Say, You got a Sharp TV, it doesn't work well because of "Muthsui" bad capacitors.
> Well - you must complain to the "Mithsui" ! Duh !
> ...


Pull your head out of you know where... You know darn well that the movie companies have demanded this. It's been discussed all over dbstalk.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I guess where I am lost is that the aim of analog sunset was to kill off HD by non-digital (read controllable) means but the directv implementation kills SD out of composite outputs if hdmi is not present. 

And it suggests using component cables instead of hdmi?

Isn't this backwards? Anybody can explain?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

wahooq said:


> HDCP comes from the content providers


Seems to me you don't understand whole chain of actions of the procedure ...

1st, a content provider do not send DRM mark/cmd to your DVR - it has a DTV special format what only particular box's FW could 'understand' that; 
2nd - the DRM data inserting into system tables when whole channel or some event would be treated on high security level;
3rd - the DRM data triggering special handshake process in DTV's FW (content provider doesn't have any access to all the stages! ) when the event come to view or recording or copy, etc
4th - HDCP [protocol] executed between two chips - one controlled by host [say DVR], other by target [say TV] - after checking ids and keys the chips established secure [encrypted] connection and will use it while DRM data dictate to support it during transferring AV streams.

Everything from above has nothing to do with the content provider. Everything designed [HW], programmed [FW] controlled[system tables] at DTV side.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

P Smith said:


> Seems to me you don't understand whole chain of actions of the procedure ...
> 
> 1st, a content provider do not send DRM mark/cmd to your DVR - it has a DTV special format what only particular box's FW could 'understand' that;
> 2nd - the DRM data inserting into system tables when whole channel or some event would be treated on high security level;
> ...


seems to me you dont understand carriage/retransmission contracts..... if a contract states you will only retransmit my content in a certain manner then that contract must bo honored. The only people that are having issues with this particular problem, either have out of date equipment or are mirroring other devices off of a system not meant for multiple outputs..i.e. (too cheap to get a receiver for each TV).....you reap what you sow


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Everything from above has nothing to do with the content provider. Everything designed [HW], programmed [FW] controlled[system tables] at DTV side.


What you don't seem to get here is that all of that was put in place because HBO, Cinemax, etc, demanded it. DirecTV didn't do it on a whim to piss off customers.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

RunnerFL said:


> What you don't seem to get here is that all of that was put in place because HBO, Cinemax, etc, demanded it. DirecTV didn't do it on a whim to piss off customers.


Exactly, while DirecTV is obviously the one putting the HDCP signal into their stream they are doing so according to the request/demand from the channel owner (namely HBO, Cinemax, and I think Starz/Encore now too).



tonyd79 said:


> I guess where I am lost is that the aim of analog sunset was to kill off HD by non-digital (read controllable) means but the directv implementation kills SD out of composite outputs if hdmi is not present.
> 
> And it suggests using component cables instead of hdmi?
> 
> Isn't this backwards? Anybody can explain?


You're confusing two different things. Analog sunset is something completely seperate of HDCP.

HDCP is used to maek sure there isn't some sort of capture device hooked up to the HDMI output allowing a person to make a perfect digital copy of the program, and stuff like that. In this case it so happens that when the HDCP handshake fails the DirecTV receiver locks down all video outputs, not just the HDMI output. I'm not sure that this was necessarily requested/demanded by the channel providers, or if it was just the easiest way for DirecTV to implement HDCP. I'm thinking they might be able to keep the other video ouputs working correctly while shutting off the HDMI output but it would be a lot more difficult so they haven't bothered to do so because the vast majority of people will never be effected by this. The only people who are effected are people who are using a receiver to feed more than one TV from multiple outputs, which I don't think was ever anything DirecTV approved of, they just didn't care enough to keep it from happening because they knew most people wouldn't do it.

Analog sunset is the eventual lockdown of component video outputs so they can only output 480p as a maximum resolution. This is usually done by including something called the Image Constraint Token (or ICT). When they embed the ICT information into a programs data it tells whatever device is playing it that it has to downscale that material to 480p if component video is being used. The Blu-Ray association is supposed to start using the ICT flag soon but I don't think they have started yet. The only Blu-Ray I ever heard of having the ICT flag set on it was a European version of one of the Resident Evil movies, and the studio said it was done by mistake and offered replacement discs to people who had problems with it. I have never heard of any talk so far of the cable/satellite TV providers starting to use ICT. But, I can see it happening eventually if Blu-Ray starts using it and there isn't a huge backlash.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> Exactly, while DirecTV is obviously the one putting the HDCP signal into their stream they are doing so according to the request/demand from the channel owner (namely HBO, Cinemax, and I think Starz/Encore now too).
> 
> You're confusing two different things. Analog sunset is something completely seperate of HDCP.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That makes more sense. The conversation was not clear to me. Sounds like DirecTV took the easy (only?) way to shut down the digital output which was to shut everything off.


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## TheFigurehead (Mar 29, 2009)

I am seeing the "Replace cable" msg on Encore stations. I have never seen this before. I am guessing it is related to the HDCP in some way. I am running my DirecTV HR-34 into a Logitech Revue via HDMI cable, then into a HDMI Switcher that was recommended in one of the threads here... then another HDMI cable into my Samsung plasma TV. If I would run the HR-34 directly into the Samsung would the Encore stations be viewable?


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

TheFigurehead said:


> I am seeing the "Replace cable" msg on Encore stations. I have never seen this before. I am guessing it is related to the HDCP in some way. I am running my DirecTV HR-34 into a Logitech Revue via HDMI cable, then into a HDMI Switcher that was recommended in one of the threads here... then another HDMI cable into my Samsung plasma TV. If I would run the HR-34 directly into the Samsung would the Encore stations be viewable?


yes


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## TheFigurehead (Mar 29, 2009)

wahooq said:


> yes


That did the trick... TY for the quick response Wahooq.


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