# What makes DirecTV so much better than Dish Network?



## jwathas (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm posting this in the right place (I'm new here). Anyway, I'm curious if it's just me or if DirecTV is truly superior to Dish Network. Here is our satellite TV history: We were with DirecTV for about 9 years and never had any real issues with them during our nearly decade long experience with them. However, back in September or October of 2016, we were comparing prices and packages with Dish Network, who offered a very similar package to what we had with DirecTV for about $30 less per month than what we were paying for DirecTV's premier package. We also liked what we read about their Hopper 3. Since we weren't under any contractual obligation with DirecTV, we decided to switch to Dish. I won't get into all of the gritty details of all of the issues we had with Dish from the very day it was installed, but we did not get off to a great start with them. We had issues with the DVR on the Hopper not working and getting errors whenever we tried to record anything, blackouts almost every night at the exact same time, and a variety of other issues. We had our Hopper replaced 4 times in the 15-16 months we were with them, which is insane. We finally had enough and switched back to DirecTV this weekend. The install was flawless (they used our old dish that we still had on our roof and never took down) and we noticed an immediate drastic improvement in both picture and sound quality. We literally cannot get over how much better the picture is compared to what we had with Dish Network. We also thought that our surround sound in our living room was dying because the sound quality was so horrible while we were with Dish, but now that we're back with DirecTV, the sound is booming. It's like night and day. Two of our TVs are 4K UHD TVs and neither one of them looked nearly this great on Dish. Does DirecTV just use better technology than Dish? We never realized how horrible the picture quality with Dish was until we switched back to DirecTV. We're just blown away by the huge difference.

Anyway, I'm just genuinely curious as to (at least from our experience) what makes DirecTV's picture and sound quality so much better than Dish. We will definitely never leave DirecTV again, that's for sure!


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

jwathas said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I hope I'm posting this in the right place (I'm new here). Anyway, I'm curious if it's just me or if DirecTV is truly superior to Dish Network. Here is our satellite TV history: We were with DirecTV for about 9 years and never had any real issues with them during our nearly decade long experience with them. However, back in September or October of 2016, we were comparing prices and packages with Dish Network, who offered a very similar package to what we had with DirecTV for about $30 less per month than what we were paying for DirecTV's premier package. We also liked what we read about their Hopper 3. Since we weren't under any contractual obligation with DirecTV, we decided to switch to Dish. I won't get into all of the gritty details of all of the issues we had with Dish from the very day it was installed, but we did not get off to a great start with them. We had issues with the DVR on the Hopper not working and getting errors whenever we tried to record anything, blackouts almost every night at the exact same time, and a variety of other issues. We had our Hopper replaced 4 times in the 15-16 months we were with them, which is insane. We finally had enough and switched back to DirecTV this weekend. The install was flawless (they used our old dish that we still had on our roof and never took down) and we noticed an immediate drastic improvement in both picture and sound quality. We literally cannot get over how much better the picture is compared to what we had with Dish Network. We also thought that our surround sound in our living room was dying because the sound quality was so horrible while we were with Dish, but now that we're back with DirecTV, the sound is booming. It's like night and day. Two of our TVs are 4K UHD TVs and neither one of them looked nearly this great on Dish. Does DirecTV just use better technology than Dish? We never realized how horrible the picture quality with Dish was until we switched back to DirecTV. We're just blown away by the huge difference.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just genuinely curious as to (at least from our experience) what makes DirecTV's picture and sound quality so much better than Dish. We will definitely never leave DirecTV again, that's for sure!


I have never had dish so I'm not sure about them.

But I will say D* has amazing PQ.

A friend of mine has cable and D* in same room and hands down D* PQ is better. Also sound quality is better . When watching NBA on cable is looks like microblock city and each player has a digital shadow , on D* it looks crystal clear .

A cable tech even came and said all cable signals are good.

I imaging is the MPEG 4 tech thay D* uses ??

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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The primary thing that makes DIRECTV better than DISH or DISH better than DIRECTV is personal opinion.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

and sport channels selection if you have particular interest in some


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

I think that it's largely subjective. Both providers offer very good quality video and audio. It comes down to package and equipment preference. Personally, DirecTV fits me better. I have been with them for 20 years.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

TDK1044 said:


> I think that it's largely subjective. Both providers offer very good quality video and audio. It comes down to package and equipment preference. Personally, DirecTV fits me better. I have been with them for 20 years.


It is very subjective. Currently I have cable with Tivo. HD PQ is very good to excellent depending on channel, SD is hands down better than both D* and E* offer. The Tivo is very good though not quite as good as Dish's Hopper 3 IMO and both D* and E*'s HD PQ is more than good enough and not enough different IMO, to be a concern. D*'s hardware just isn't up to snuff IMO, too few tuners and too many issues over the years for me to even consider them again.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> It is very subjective. Currently I have cable with Tivo. HD PQ is very good to excellent depending on channel, SD is hands down better than both D* and E* offer. The Tivo is very good though not quite as good as Dish's Hopper 3 IMO and both D* and E*'s HD PQ is more than good enough and not enough different IMO, to be a concern. D*'s hardware just isn't up to snuff IMO, too few tuners and too many issues over the years for me to even consider them again.


How many tuners does TiVo have? 
Most cable providers it's 6 .. except for optimum s cloud base POS system thay does 15 shows but limits u to 75 total HD hours and your recordings auto delete in 14 days .

According to this the max is 6 on a TiVo 
TiVo Buying Guide - Which TiVo Do you Need?

I believe the genie 2 is 7 tuners and they are working on more

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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Tivo units have 4 or 6 depending on model. But you can have multiple Tivos. I have a Bolt+, Bolt and Roamio for a total of 14 tuners. Management of them is simple with the iOS or Android app.

With Genie 2, how many minis will it support at any given moment in time? Tivo has a 3 Mini per 'server' limit I believe.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

James Long said:


> The primary thing that makes DIRECTV better than DISH or DISH better than DIRECTV is personal opinion.


No, there are actual, verifiable differences. Directv has a bit better picture and better sports offerings, Dish has better equipment, generally. For me, the programming is what is important. What good is better equipment if I can't watch what I want to. I'm a Yankees fan and can't get the YES network with Dish. That rules them out.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

studechip said:


> No, there are actual, verifiable differences. Directv has a bit better picture and better sports offerings, Dish has better equipment, generally. For me, the programming is what is important. What good is better equipment if I can't watch what I want to. I'm a Yankees fan and can't get the YES network with Dish. That rules them out.


Don't agree on the better picture, but some lack of HD sports is an issue for those that care about that. I'm not one of those. Not that I don't like to watch sports at times, I'm just not a fan of any team these days.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

lparsons21 said:


> Don't agree on the better picture, but some lack of HD sports is an issue for those that care about that. I'm not one of those. Not that I don't like to watch sports at times, I'm just not a fan of any team these days.


I'm going by my limited experience and the hundreds of posts I've read about Dish vs Directv picture quality. What I've seen, Dish has a softer picture.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

studechip said:


> I'm going by my limited experience and the hundreds of posts I've read about Dish vs Directv picture quality. What I've seen, Dish has a softer picture.


what you would expect from a company who have broken fiber for many years and keep resizing HD resolution down to 1440x1080 ?!


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

The business plan of the two companies are, and have always been, totally different. 

DirecTV is luxury TV. It is for people who simply want a simple system that has (virtually) every channel that exists without complexity, compromise, or ho-ha.

DISH is good enough TV. It is for people who want to save 4 cents on a bar of soap and will put up with more crap to save that 4 cents. 

The issue, going forward, for DISH is that the internet is eroding its customer base, being yet more able to win the race to the bottom that is cord cutting, while DirecTV stands, more and more, as TV for those who simply want their TV to work, no questions asked.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

LOL! Direct is no more ‘luxury tv’ than Dish or a slew of cable companies.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

SamC said:


> The business plan of the two companies are, and have always been, totally different.
> 
> DirecTV is luxury TV. It is for people who simply want a simple system that has (virtually) every channel that exists without complexity, compromise, or ho-ha.
> 
> ...


All tv providers are hurting from O T T providers

But dish and D* were smart

Dish owns sling 
D* owns DIrecTV NOW

Don't know of any cable provider thay own OTT 
I know telco vz is trying to get into O TT

And of course a t t owns D* and D* now

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## jwathas (Jan 22, 2018)

Wow, thanks for all of the responses! As I mentioned previously, there is a DEFINITE huge difference in the picture quality, with DirecTV's picture being far superior to what we had with Dish Network. With Dish, the picture was very blocky. I guess that's the best way to describe it. There were just blocks all over the screen. It was terrible. We went through 4 of the Hopper 3 receivers during the nearly year and a half that we were with them because of all the problems but our problems were never resolved. Probably the most obnoxious problem was that the Hopper DVR would frequently decide not to record scheduled recordings. This happened to me last week with one of my shows that I had set up to record the entire series. It just didn't record. That's when I knew we were doing the right thing by switching back to DirecTV. We now have their latest Genie along with the Genie Mini 4K clients. After we had DirecTV installed on Saturday, we saw a DirecTV commercial offering a $200 Visa gift card for signing up with them. This was never mentioned to us when we signed back up for DirecTV, so I contacted customer service and they said they could either mail us the Visa card or just apply a $200 credit to our account, so I chose the latter. I was pretty impressed that they gave us that option!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

there are OTA stations with best PQ then on DTV or dish


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## dakn2 (Sep 20, 2002)

Up until this past year I was an 18 year Dish customer. Had zero issues with them. Oh sure, I played the dance with them at the end of every contract period - threatening to leave and suddenly I was eligible to upgrade all of my equipment to the latest released and with monthly discounts to boot, but this was a minor inconvenience.

As for picture quality; I am picky and see little to no difference between the two - on any of my TVs. I did have free Comcast cable for a few months (their promo), and I will say either satellite service was appreciably better than the Comcast picture that I was receiving. The only noticeable difference I've seen so far between the two companies is with their technicians. Now granted, my DirecTV sample size is only one (the original install), but he was extremely technically competent and was just as anal as I am about the installation (which is saying a lot!).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Directv has way more satellite bandwidth at their disposal, and allocates more bandwidth per HD channel than Dish. That's a fact, not an opinion. MPEG compressed video looks better the more bandwidth you give it, but whether that difference is noticeable or matters is a personal opinion. Some people simply don't see the difference, which is fine - that's the whole goal behind video compression.

The MPEG group that develops these standards have years of research behind what they do, the goal of which is to remove any detail people won't notice and preserve as much detail as possible (given the bandwidth constraints that demand a certain quality level) that people will notice. I imagine not everyone's brain is wired up in an identical manner so different people seeing or not seeing differences is what you'd expect.

The difference between cable and Directv or Dish is not so easy to quantify, since there are not only different cable providers, but cable companies don't have identical infrastructure in all locations. The quality you get from your local cable company is luck of the draw, you might have terrible PQ where you live, but visit a friend who lives elsewhere who has the same cable company and they have great PQ. Or you might have great PQ that one day changes to terrible PQ, because they moved stuff around and took bandwidth away from video to devote more to internet. This has happened to a lot of Comcast customers in the last year or two.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> LOL! Direct is no more 'luxury tv' than Dish or a slew of cable companies.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Made me think of what I used to pay for D* service. That _was _a luxury, I think. I came to my senses a couple years ago and downgraded to the lowest package that still has YES. But I get your point, as usual.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dakn2 said:


> Up until this past year I was an 18 year Dish customer. Had zero issues with them. Oh sure, I played the dance with them at the end of every contract period - threatening to leave and suddenly I was eligible to upgrade all of my equipment to the latest released and with monthly discounts to boot, but this was a minor inconvenience.
> 
> As for picture quality; I am picky and see little to no difference between the two - on any of my TVs. I did have free Comcast cable for a few months (their promo), and I will say either satellite service was appreciably better than the Comcast picture that I was receiving. The only noticeable difference I've seen so far between the two companies is with their technicians. Now granted, my DirecTV sample size is only one (the original install), but *he was extremely technically competent and was just as anal as I am* about the installation (which is saying a lot!).


You don't live in NJ, right? I have not seen many installers...I've only had one at my home that I could say that about. I get mostly ex-pesticide workers here.

Rich


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## sunfire9us (Feb 15, 2009)

studechip said:


> I'm going by my limited experience and the hundreds of posts I've read about Dish vs Directv picture quality. What I've seen, Dish has a softer picture.


I will second your opinion. My aunt and uncle were the ones who had Dishnet for years and I always thought their picture was too soft.

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## BreadDawg (Sep 12, 2016)

This is coming from a guy who had the Hopper 3 just 6 months ago, I found zero difference in HD picture between my HR 54 setup now and the H3 setup with Dish. Directv has a big advantage in how many HD channels they offer, I can’t think of a single channel I watch on DTV that is in SD now. And to the guy who said Dish is for people wanting to save cents on a bar of soap, compare similar mainstream packages between the 2 and I would bet they will be within $10/month of each other.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

BreadDawg said:


> This is coming from a guy who had the Hopper 3 just 6 months ago, I found zero difference in HD picture between my HR 54 setup now and the H3 setup with Dish. Directv has a big advantage in how many HD channels they offer, I can't think of a single channel I watch on DTV that is in SD now. And to the guy who said Dish is for people wanting to save cents on a bar of soap, compare similar mainstream packages between the 2 and I would bet they will be within $10/month of each other.


You'd probably lose that bet. 
Just looking at new/returning customer promos, Dish is cheaper by a fair amount and it is locked for 2 years.

To me the services are close enough together that the only real consideration is about sports. D* does do them more and of course, has the NFL Sunday Ticket. For those that aren't enamored of that, the choice should be more about the benjamins and the equipment.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> You'd probably lose that bet.
> Just looking at new/returning customer promos, Dish is cheaper by a fair amount and it is locked for 2 years.
> 
> To me the services are close enough together that the only real consideration is about sports. D* does do them more and of course, has the NFL Sunday Ticket. For those that aren't enamored of that, the choice should be more about the benjamins and the equipment.


I thought his comment on PQ was interesting.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> I thought his comment on PQ was interesting.
> 
> Rich


On the Hopper 3 the video is nearly identical to D*'s as many have pointed out. For me, there is a difference but so slight that it isn't a consideration

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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

jwathas said:


> Wow, thanks for all of the responses! As I mentioned previously, there is a DEFINITE huge difference in the picture quality, with DirecTV's picture being far superior to what we had with Dish Network. With Dish, the picture was very blocky. I guess that's the best way to describe it. There were just blocks all over the screen. It was terrible. We went through 4 of the Hopper 3 receivers during the nearly year and a half that we were with them because of all the problems but our problems were never resolved.


To state the obvious, there was CLEARLY something amiss with your DISH service. So I wouldn't necessarily base your opinion of DISH's HD picture quality based on what you saw. My parents currently have DISH (an old VIP-722k DVR) and have had it for years. I'm pretty picky about picture quality (watch 4K HDR stuff where I can) but I don't notice DISH looking bad at their house on their 50" 1080p Panny plasma.

I had DISH for a few years some years back, followed by DirecTV. I didn't have them both at the same time, so comparing is a bit hard, but I did use both with the same TV (a 1080p Samsung, mid-to-high end). If I were to assign an overall score for HD picture quality (looking at all sorts of content across all HD channels), with Comcast cable TV on the low end at, say, 5, and Netflix and Amazon Prime's 1080p at 10, and local OTA HD at 8.5, I'd probably give DirecTV an 8 and DISH a 7.5. DirecTV, as I recall, had higher highs and lower lows than DISH, which was a bit more consistent across all HD content. On DirecTV's best-looking stuff, it's quite impressive and definitely sharper and more pristine than anything I saw on DISH. But some stuff (less popular shows/channels) on DirecTV would definitely have some ugly compression artifacts.

That said, my observations are all based on some time ago, circa 2009 - 2015. Things may be a little different now.


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## ericknolls (Aug 18, 2013)

The comparisons were great! I laughed at a few of them. I wonder if DTV is going to come out with a DVR with capabilities similar to Verizon's DVR? *Record 15 shows at once and a host of other things.*


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

James Long said:


> The primary thing that makes DIRECTV better than DISH or DISH better than DIRECTV is personal opinion.


I could not disagree more Jim. Personal opinion has nothing to do with a noticeable difference in picture quality. The term HD Lite affiliated with Dish Network is well deserved and documented. Personal opinion regarding the DVR or the remote or the guide set up I agree with you.The Genie is nice but the Hopper is awesome. Dishes ability to ad a external hard drive is much easier than DirecTV. That's not an opinion it's a absolute. That being said, my only concern is picture quality so the improved PQ I noticed with DirecTV made my choice easy.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Andrew Sullivan said:


> I could not disagree more Jim.


Well Andy, I appreciate your opinion.


Andrew Sullivan said:


> The term HD Lite affiliated with Dish Network is well deserved and documented.


Don't forget who invented HD Lite. It was DIRECTV that was in a bandwidth crunch (to the point of taking down some HD feeds on Sunday so they could carry Sunday Ticket) and they were the first to use a lower resolution picture as part of their HD compression scheme. Fortunately they were able to move away from HD Lite when they got more bandwidth.

If one only cares about one thing that is the only thing that matters ... for example, if one only cares about NFL Sunday Ticket it doesn't matter what PQ DIRECTV is using, they are the only distributor. If one only cares about Pac-12 Networks DIRECTV's PQ doesn't matter. 

PQ is inherently an opinion ... viewers look at the screen and say I like that or I don't. That is how opinion is expressed. People should not take their opinion and state it as indisputable fact.
You believe (opinion) that there is a noticeable difference in PQ. Cool. But be aware that others do not share your opinion. They may not see a noticeable difference.

And, bottom line, you took my statement out of context. It was referring to the full comparison of DISH and DIRECTV as posted back in January - not just one aspect. As you agreed in your post and I have stated in this post, there is much more to compare than perceived PQ. The primary thing that makes DIRECTV better than DISH or DISH better than DIRECTV *is* personal opinion.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

In my opinion, the GUI provided by DirecTV is 100x better than Dish's.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

James Long said:


> Well Andy, I appreciate your opinion.
> Don't forget who invented HD Lite. It was DIRECTV that was in a bandwidth crunch (to the point of taking down some HD feeds on Sunday so they could carry Sunday Ticket) and they were the first to use a lower resolution picture as part of their HD compression scheme. Fortunately they were able to move away from HD Lite when they got more bandwidth.
> 
> If one only cares about one thing that is the only thing that matters ... for example, if one only cares about NFL Sunday Ticket it doesn't matter what PQ DIRECTV is using, they are the only distributor. If one only cares about Pac-12 Networks DIRECTV's PQ doesn't matter.
> ...


1) Resolution is a fact. "PQ" is an invention, if not an opinion. The only way lower resolution helps is to provide more comparative capacity. Given Dish's lack of comparable programming, i don't see how lower resolution can be seen as a net positive.
2) Who cares about the HD landscape of 10 years ago, when comparing current offerings?

I've had both Dish and DirecTV. When asked a question like this, I've had the same answer for years and years. Give me Dish's hardware, and DirecTV's programming, and it would be the best for most.


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## Glenee (Sep 22, 2007)

It's all in the amount of Data that reaches the DVR/Reciever and then how those bit's are read and displayed.


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

This may not be a answerable question but some here seem to be pretty technically savvy. If both Dish and DirecTV wanted to improve overall PQ how would they accomplish this task?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Andrew Sullivan said:


> This may not be a answerable question but some here seem to be pretty technically savvy. If both Dish and DirecTV wanted to improve overall PQ how would they accomplish this task?


It would be easy for Directv - once they drop MPEG2 SD duplicates that opens up 32 transponders on 101 where they can put some of the HD channels that are currently on 99/103. So they either end up with tons of unused transponders on 99/103 or they increase their bandwidth for HD channels to fill up the available capacity. I have no idea if they will, maybe they have some reason they want to leave a lot of unused bandwidth but I can't see why.

Once T16 launches (later today!) and T15 moves back to 103, they will be able to add 8 more Ka transponders (103ca tpns 1-8) further increasing their available Ka bandwidth.

Dish doesn't really have a way to improve their PQ, they are extremely bandwidth starved and don't have much in the way of options to increase bandwidth. Since they have two arcs they'd need to add bandwidth in both unless they want to have one arc with superior PQ to the other. Short of launching a new satellite and giving everyone new LNBs that's really not an option for them.


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

Fascinating Slice. You provided a easy to understand solution but I guess it really boils down to If DirecTV has any incentive to provide better PQ. No reason to supply something that there is no demand for. A shame really.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I like DTV’s PQ however, I still won’t like it when they get rid of the SD duplicates and HD stays out longer in bad weather.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> I like DTV's PQ however, I still won't like it when they get rid of the SD duplicates and HD stays out longer in bad weather.


HD isn't going to "stay out longer" when they drop SD duplicates. It will stay out just as long as it does today. But some channels (presumably most of them among the most watched) will move to Ku on 101 and thus be roughly equal in rain fade resistance to the MPEG2 SD channels on 101 today.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Andrew Sullivan said:


> Fascinating Slice. You provided a easy to understand solution but I guess it really boils down to If DirecTV has any incentive to provide better PQ. No reason to supply something that there is no demand for. A shame really.


If I were them I'd do it - and give most of the extra bandwidth to the most popular channels - and promote Directv as having far superior PQ to cable and Dish. Even if cord cutting reduces cable/satellite customers every year, if they can give those people who aren't cutting the cord (i.e. because they like sports or live where streaming isn't a good option) to go with Directv it'll help them and not really cost them anything. Advertise that customers with 4K TVs need to choose the service with the best PQ to get the most of out of their TV.

But like I said, who knows what their plans are. They may not want to give Directv satellite better PQ than the upcoming IP version, and increasing PQ there has a real cost attached to it both on their end (CDNs are expensive and charge "per bit") and on the customer end (the more bandwidth they use the more people will potentially run into issues, especially if they are trying to use wireless)


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> HD isn't going to "stay out longer" when they drop SD duplicates. It will stay out just as long as it does today. But some channels (presumably most of them among the most watched) will move to Ku on 101 and thus be roughly equal in rain fade resistance to the MPEG2 SD channels on 101 today.


Sorry if I worded that wrong I know it doesn't stay out longer removing the SD duplicates. Does KU vs KA have the same PQ?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> Sorry if I worded that wrong I know it doesn't stay out longer removing the SD duplicates. Does KU vs KA have the same PQ?


Yes


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> and promote Directv as having far superior PQ to cable and Dish.


I smell a "HD+" fee


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

Watching Siren on the Freeform Channel. Startingly good PQ. Really stunning.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> Sorry if I worded that wrong I know it doesn't stay out longer removing the SD duplicates. Does KU vs KA have the same PQ?


PQ depends on bit rate, and bit rate is totally independent of frequency.


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## ericknolls (Aug 18, 2013)

Why don't we just ask them? We have heard everyones elses opinion. Now - let's hear it out of the horses mouth from DTV and Dish. They know what their resolutions and the types of satellites they use. I am sure Directv has an edge on Dish for the hundred thousandth time.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> If I were them I'd do it - and give most of the extra bandwidth to the most popular channels - and promote Directv as having far superior PQ to cable and Dish. Even if cord cutting reduces cable/satellite customers every year, if they can give those people who aren't cutting the cord (i.e. because they like sports or live where streaming isn't a good option) to go with Directv it'll help them and not really cost them anything. Advertise that customers with 4K TVs need to choose the service with the best PQ to get the most of out of their TV.
> 
> But like I said, who knows what their plans are. They may not want to give Directv satellite better PQ than the upcoming IP version, and increasing PQ there has a real cost attached to it both on their end (CDNs are expensive and charge "per bit") and on the customer end (the more bandwidth they use the more people will potentially run into issues, especially if they are trying to use wireless)


Agree with all this. I'd only add that DTV Now already has a little better HD PQ than DTV satellite and I expect that the upcoming IP service (which will run on the DTV Now platform) will have the same PQ as DTV Now. So there should be some room for them to improve the PQ on satellite without making it look better than their IP streams.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ericknolls said:


> Why don't we just ask them? We have heard everyones elses opinion. Now - let's hear it out of the horses mouth from DTV and Dish. They know what their resolutions and the types of satellites they use. I am sure Directv has an edge on Dish for the hundred thousandth time.


Technical Answer: Business Propriatary Information.

Ask the marketing department and they will probably use the results of an opinion based survey ("best picture quality according to ZDQ Research survey of 10 participants").


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Well, I can confirm Xfinity sends all its HD channels in 1280x720. It is somehow processed tho, so it does not look overly soft on a 4K 65" set.
I just got tired of getting ripped off by DirecTv. I have one Bolt+, and two mini's. One cablecard. No extra outlet fees, no HD fees, no DVR fees. Just a $125/mo bill for all non-premium channels and 150Mb/s internet.
Still have my DirecTv dish and owned receivers in case I ever want to go back. Wont as long as they charge $25 for nothing.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ericknolls said:


> Why don't we just ask them? We have heard everyones elses opinion. Now - let's hear it out of the horses mouth from DTV and Dish. They know what their resolutions and the types of satellites they use. I am sure Directv has an edge on Dish for the hundred thousandth time.


What you talking about ?!!!
I've personally analyzed recordings on dish DVR's drives, getting all the parameters (resolution, interlacing, FPS, etc).


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> Well, I can confirm Xfinity sends all its HD channels in 1280x720. It is somehow processed tho, so it does not look overly soft on a 4K 65" set.
> I just got tired of getting ripped off by DirecTv. I have one Bolt+, and two mini's. One cablecard. No extra outlet fees, no HD fees, no DVR fees. Just a $125/mo bill for all non-premium channels and 150Mb/s internet.
> Still have my DirecTv dish and owned receivers in case I ever want to go back. Wont as long as they charge $25 for nothing.


comcast may very soon end cable card / qam HD so the tivo will not get you much.


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## Douglas Strate (Nov 20, 2020)

I have Dish Network with the Hopper 3 and 4k Joey's. I have 3 televisions and one is a LG C8 77 Oled which is where the Hopper is hooked up. I had Frontier FIOS before Dish and I regret ever cancelling the FIOS TV service. I can confirm the picture quality on my OLED TV is horrific. The picture is way too soft, macro blocking galore! I have read a lot of comments here including from moderators. Dish Network has the absolute worst satellite service. PQ again is just horrific and I have had the Hopper 3 replaced. Dish Network resolution is 1440 x 1080I so it isn't even a true high definition picture. Yes maybe an average person doesn't notice the artifacts in the picture or simply think it is normal. FIOS never had any issues at all with PQ. IT was stunning. We are in 2020 for Gods sake and Dish still compresses the signal and doesn't offer true HD on their content. These are facts and not an opinion. I love the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners and you can hook up an external hard drive. When I watch TV I want to see a pristine picture and Dish doesn't have this. I am done with this crappy service and making the switch over to Directv this Saturday. Going with Genie 2, 2 4K clients and 1 wireless mini. I am confident the picture quality will be way better. I have read some negative reviews about the Genie 2 and am hoping these issues are resolved. Note FIOS TV is no longer being offered by Frontier otherwise I would go back to this service.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Douglas Strate said:


> I have Dish Network with the Hopper 3 and 4k Joey's. I have 3 televisions and one is a LG C8 77 Oled which is where the Hopper is hooked up. I had Frontier FIOS before Dish and I regret ever cancelling the FIOS TV service. I can confirm the picture quality on my OLED TV is horrific. The picture is way too soft, macro blocking galore! I have read a lot of comments here including from moderators. Dish Network has the absolute worst satellite service. PQ again is just horrific and I have had the Hopper 3 replaced. Dish Network resolution is 1440 x 1080I so it isn't even a true high definition picture. Yes maybe an average person doesn't notice the artifacts in the picture or simply think it is normal. FIOS never had any issues at all with PQ. IT was stunning. We are in 2020 for Gods sake and Dish still compresses the signal and doesn't offer true HD on their content. These are facts and not an opinion. I love the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners and you can hook up an external hard drive. When I watch TV I want to see a pristine picture and Dish doesn't have this. I am done with this crappy service and making the switch over to Directv this Saturday. Going with Genie 2, 2 4K clients and 1 wireless mini. I am confident the picture quality will be way better. I have read some negative reviews about the Genie 2 and am hoping these issues are resolved. Note FIOS TV is no longer being offered by Frontier otherwise I would go back to this service.


Please post here again after the switch is done.
Thanks


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

Directv has more channels than dish it seems like. And if your a sports freak then you want dtv. If you pay for the maintenance plan theres NO charge for tech visits replacement boxes free remotes like dish charges for


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

If you get the genie it will have you'll need a 4k mini for each 4k tv since the genie don't do 4k


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

Douglas Strate said:


> I have Dish Network with the Hopper 3 and 4k Joey's. I have 3 televisions and one is a LG C8 77 Oled which is where the Hopper is hooked up. I had Frontier FIOS before Dish and I regret ever cancelling the FIOS TV service. I can confirm the picture quality on my OLED TV is horrific. The picture is way too soft, macro blocking galore! I have read a lot of comments here including from moderators. Dish Network has the absolute worst satellite service. PQ again is just horrific and I have had the Hopper 3 replaced. Dish Network resolution is 1440 x 1080I so it isn't even a true high definition picture. Yes maybe an average person doesn't notice the artifacts in the picture or simply think it is normal. FIOS never had any issues at all with PQ. IT was stunning. We are in 2020 for Gods sake and Dish still compresses the signal and doesn't offer true HD on their content. These are facts and not an opinion. I love the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners and you can hook up an external hard drive. When I watch TV I want to see a pristine picture and Dish doesn't have this. I am done with this crappy service and making the switch over to Directv this Saturday. Going with Genie 2, 2 4K clients and 1 wireless mini. I am confident the picture quality will be way better. I have read some negative reviews about the Genie 2 and am hoping these issues are resolved. Note FIOS TV is no longer being offered by Frontier otherwise I would go back to this service.


I have a genie 2 and to be honest I've had no problems with it I had more problems with the hr-54s with failing hdds since they been out in the field longer


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

krel said:


> I have a genie 2 and to be honest I've had no problems with it I had more problems with the hr-54s with failing hdds since they been out in the field longer


The HR54 debuted in 2015. The HS17 debuted in 2016. Both are very reliable.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I've had a HS17-500 since back in the early end customer beta program and it's still chugging along just fine.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

Douglas Strate said:


> I have Dish Network with the Hopper 3 and 4k Joey's. I have 3 televisions and one is a LG C8 77 Oled which is where the Hopper is hooked up. I had Frontier FIOS before Dish and I regret ever cancelling the FIOS TV service. I can confirm the picture quality on my OLED TV is horrific. The picture is way too soft, macro blocking galore! I have read a lot of comments here including from moderators. Dish Network has the absolute worst satellite service. PQ again is just horrific and I have had the Hopper 3 replaced. Dish Network resolution is 1440 x 1080I so it isn't even a true high definition picture. Yes maybe an average person doesn't notice the artifacts in the picture or simply think it is normal. FIOS never had any issues at all with PQ. IT was stunning. We are in 2020 for Gods sake and Dish still compresses the signal and doesn't offer true HD on their content. These are facts and not an opinion. I love the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners and you can hook up an external hard drive. When I watch TV I want to see a pristine picture and Dish doesn't have this. I am done with this crappy service and making the switch over to Directv this Saturday. Going with Genie 2, 2 4K clients and 1 wireless mini. I am confident the picture quality will be way better. I have read some negative reviews about the Genie 2 and am hoping these issues are resolved. Note FIOS TV is no longer being offered by Frontier otherwise I would go back to this service.


BTW there is no wireless setup for 4K mini's!!!


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

James Long said:


> Technical Answer: Business Propriatary Information.
> 
> Ask the marketing department and they will probably use the results of an opinion based survey ("best picture quality according to ZDQ Research survey of 10 participants").


this would start a fight between the two LOL


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

Douglas Strate said:


> I have Dish Network with the Hopper 3 and 4k Joey's. I have 3 televisions and one is a LG C8 77 Oled which is where the Hopper is hooked up. I had Frontier FIOS before Dish and I regret ever cancelling the FIOS TV service. I can confirm the picture quality on my OLED TV is horrific. The picture is way too soft, macro blocking galore! I have read a lot of comments here including from moderators. Dish Network has the absolute worst satellite service. PQ again is just horrific and I have had the Hopper 3 replaced. Dish Network resolution is 1440 x 1080I so it isn't even a true high definition picture. Yes maybe an average person doesn't notice the artifacts in the picture or simply think it is normal. FIOS never had any issues at all with PQ. IT was stunning. We are in 2020 for Gods sake and Dish still compresses the signal and doesn't offer true HD on their content. These are facts and not an opinion. I love the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners and you can hook up an external hard drive. When I watch TV I want to see a pristine picture and Dish doesn't have this. I am done with this crappy service and making the switch over to Directv this Saturday. Going with Genie 2, 2 4K clients and 1 wireless mini. I am confident the picture quality will be way better. I have read some negative reviews about the Genie 2 and am hoping these issues are resolved. Note FIOS TV is no longer being offered by Frontier otherwise I would go back to this service.


so how did you make out??? how's the PQ with DTV over dish. we watched the world series in 4K on DTV and it was stunning


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

P Smith said:


> there are OTA stations with best PQ then on DTV or dish


Especially in Canada. Most Canadian stations have no subchannels. I get up to 4 on a good day and those are pristine, beautiful, clear, and virtually free of artifacts. NFL PQ on there is slightly better than the raw feeds on Sunday Ticket, which are pretty darn good. Compare to the Directv or OTA feed on American locals, and the Canadian local is almost like comparing 4K to SD.


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## glenmick (Nov 5, 2020)

No one in this long thread mentioned compression. What I’ve heard is that cable compresses HD signals 40 percent and DirecTV/satellite compresses only 30 percent, while OTA HD is uncompressed. I can confirm that OTA HD PQ is a smidgeon better, but hardly noticeable to the casual observer.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

glenmick said:


> No one in this long thread mentioned compression. What I've heard is that cable compresses HD signals 40 percent and DirecTV/satellite compresses only 30 percent, while OTA HD is uncompressed. I can confirm that OTA HD PQ is a smidgeon better, but hardly noticeable to the casual observer.


Everyone compresses even OTA


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

glenmick said:


> No one in this long thread mentioned compression.


discussed everywhere !
follow keywords MPEG-2/4/5 and H.262/.264/.265


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

These days OTA is often compressed worse than anything else because they want to cram so many subchannels in. It will only get worse as stations set up ATSC 3.0 test stations, which force them to share their existing programming with another station in the area meaning even MORE compression.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

glenmick said:


> What I've heard is that cable compresses HD signals 40 percent and DirecTV/satellite compresses only 30 percent, while OTA HD is uncompressed. I can confirm that OTA HD PQ is a smidgeon better, but hardly noticeable to the casual observer.


OTA is fairly _heavily compressed_. The more subchannels, the higher the compression. When an area opens the Pandora's box of NextGen TV (ATSC 3.0), it will get worse as most every station will be carrying two HD signals.

Satellite carriers are typically grabbing an OTA signal so they're little hope it will end up better than when they received it.

All stations are using statistical multiplexing with variable compression so putting a number to the compression amount isn't really practical.


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## mika911 (May 2, 2006)

If you want to be blown away, considering it's still cable and broadcast TV, look at Shaw Direct satellite in Canada.

The channels look leagues better than even DirecTV, no joke. They must have significantly less compression, and it has been that way for over a decade at least.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mika911 said:


> The channels look leagues better than even DirecTV, no joke. They must have significantly less compression, and it has been that way for over a decade at least.


Shaw fairly recently implemented AVC compression (MPEG4) versus the old MPEG2 so their bandwidth availability improved quite a bit.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

I was a customer


jwathas said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I hope I'm posting this in the right place (I'm new here). Anyway, I'm curious if it's just me or if DirecTV is truly superior to Dish Network. Here is our satellite TV history: We were with DirecTV for about 9 years and never had any real issues with them during our nearly decade long experience with them. However, back in September or October of 2016, we were comparing prices and packages with Dish Network, who offered a very similar package to what we had with DirecTV for about $30 less per month than what we were paying for DirecTV's premier package. We also liked what we read about their Hopper 3. Since we weren't under any contractual obligation with DirecTV, we decided to switch to Dish. I won't get into all of the gritty details of all of the issues we had with Dish from the very day it was installed, but we did not get off to a great start with them. We had issues with the DVR on the Hopper not working and getting errors whenever we tried to record anything, blackouts almost every night at the exact same time, and a variety of other issues. We had our Hopper replaced 4 times in the 15-16 months we were with them, which is insane. We finally had enough and switched back to DirecTV this weekend. The install was flawless (they used our old dish that we still had on our roof and never took down) and we noticed an immediate drastic improvement in both picture and sound quality. We literally cannot get over how much better the picture is compared to what we had with Dish Network. We also thought that our surround sound in our living room was dying because the sound quality was so horrible while we were with Dish, but now that we're back with DirecTV, the sound is booming. It's like night and day. Two of our TVs are 4K UHD TVs and neither one of them looked nearly this great on Dish. Does DirecTV just use better technology than Dish? We never realized how horrible the picture quality with Dish was until we switched back to DirecTV. We're just blown away by the huge difference.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just genuinely curious as to (at least from our experience) what makes DirecTV's picture and sound quality so much better than Dish. We will definitely never leave DirecTV again, that's for sure!


I was a DirecTV subscriber for over twenty years, and I loved it for about 15 of those years. Finally, early this year, I got fed up with the terrible customer support, slow hardware, and disappointing corporate values at AT&T, and I jumped to Dish!

Boy, was that a disappointment. I like saving money, the 16 tuners on the H3, and the fast performance of the system. However, the channel lineup (no RSNs!, missing locals for months!, key channels SD only, etc.), the buggy Hopper, the poorly designed user interface, etc. -- all of it has made me quite unhappy.

I still have about 13 months left in my two-year agreement. But if AT&T sells DirecTV, I'll have to strongly consider returning if I can get a decent new-subscriber deal. I'll just eat the $20/month left on my Dish agreement.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

harsh said:


> OTA is fairly _heavily compressed_. The more subchannels, the higher the compression. When an area opens the Pandora's box of NextGen TV (ATSC 3.0), it will get worse as most every station will be carrying two HD signals.


Yep, this is already happening here in Nashville. We were among the first markets to launch ATSC 3.0 back in June, I think. I can tell that the HD PQ is worse on some of the affected ATSC 1.0 channels that are now sharing towers but it's not as bad as you might think. I imagine that they upgraded their 1.0 encoders when they made the shift. Our CW station seemed to take the biggest hit in PQ. Our CBS station used to have really good HD PQ. It's still good but not quite as sharp now.


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## johnzim63 (Oct 8, 2005)

I have to stand up for Dish. Sure the pq is slightly off on some channels, but I find the Hopper 3 to be much more stable than the last Directv unit we had. And I dont have to wait 10 or 12 seconds when changing channels. That was just the WORST. And AT&T is the lowest circle of hell for customer cervix.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

johnzim63 said:


> I have to stand up for Dish. Sure the pq is slightly off on some channels, but I find the Hopper 3 to be much more stable than the last Directv unit we had. And I dont have to wait 10 or 12 seconds when changing channels. That was just the WORST. And AT&T is the lowest circle of hell for customer cervix.


I don't know what equipment you had but it takes 2 seconds for me to change channels. Sounds like you had native on and your TV was slow to change resolutions


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

My local NBC has great picture quality, and they have 6 channels running. Even the subs have great pq.


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