# Do you use OTA?



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

In light of the new stuff coming out, and since there is a big group of regulars here:
Do you use the OTA on your HR20?


----------



## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Do you use the OTA on your HR20?


Yup - PBS-HD.


----------



## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Yes, my local Fox is not on D* yet and PBS-HD.


----------



## trgonz (Sep 26, 2006)

Yes- - During storms and to get channels that are not on D*.


----------



## soccergrunt (Nov 17, 2005)

Yes I do. Our local CBS affiliate (WISH 8) in Indy does not have a rebroadcast agreement with D* for their HD channel. Also, I can pick up the CW, My Network and PBS stations, local weather radar and 24hr local news sub-stations with OTA.


----------



## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Yep, for almost everything that is available OTA vs. MPEG4 HD-locals.

Reason #1: Trickplay performance. (Major difference.)
Reason #2: Picture quality. (Minor difference, the Denver MPEG4 is very good.) 

Of course there is the stuff (PBS) that is only available OTA, as well.


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Well this got hit on quick 
I'm a "Yes - all the time" I would say that 40%+ of my veiwing is OTA.
reasons:
only 3 out of 15 channels I get thru D* ie: no pbs,nbc,subchannels..
during storms..


----------



## racemanva (Nov 3, 2006)

Yes Sir and I love it! 70%-OTA, 30%-DTV


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Had to vote: Yes-Rarely....

I have it connected, since I already have the infrustructure in place.

I use it for WCIU when the Sox happen to be playing a home game, and they are covering it (WGN and CSN are on SAT), and I am around to watch it live.... once WCIU is available via SAT... I really only see me using OTA to test thing when you all say it is not working


----------



## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

Yes.
... Our CBS is owned by LIN. Will probably need OTA for HD until the next ice age the way things are going.

... I like getting local wx/radar on the subchannels

... PBS OTA looks great.

No OTA wouldn't be a big deal to me on a secondary, non-DVR receiver, perhaps in a bedroom. Not being able to DVR my OTA programs on my main TV... that would suck.


----------



## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Yes. I only have waivers for CBS, FOX, and PBS, while NBC and PBS are doing ATSC brdcsts in my area. I'm going to cancel PBS when my DIRECTV account is reactivated next month.


----------



## Teacherman (Oct 20, 2006)

Usually only during rain fade, I can't tell the difference in quality and being over 50 miles away from everywhere, OTA is often iffy.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I never use OTA .. There's a 1800 ft mountain in my way 

Having been without OTA for 2 years now, I can honestly say that I don't miss it. MPEG-4 HD is the difference.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

On main TV, for the CW, for subchannels and much of the time for PQ. On bedroom TV, for next-market Washington OTA.


----------



## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

Yes, 5 PBS subchannels(1 HD), ABC HD(1 subchannel CW), CBS HD (2 subchannel, MyTV/Weather)


----------



## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Yes....No locals thru D* in my area.


----------



## lug1 (May 13, 2003)

Yes all the time, Fox 8 New Orleans is not on DTV not having ota on the h21 is just stupid.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

LIN owns our local NBC affiliate so OTA it is for that station. Our local PBS doesn't bother firing up the HD channel until 8PM everynight so I don't bother with them. Other then that I usually use the MPEG4 channels, mainly to keep an eye on D*, plus it allows for more recording time on the old HR20.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

BTW, I fully believe the (relative) accuracy of the poll numbers here. However, I don't think that these numbers will represent the DIRECTV user base as a whole. The audience here is biased. The installation numbers that RobertE presented in another thread (40:1 in favor of NOT using OTA) may be more representative of the DIRECTV population.


----------



## packfan909 (Oct 6, 2006)

I use OTA all of the time. Given the choice of Sat delivered and OTA delivered, I always use the OTA delivered. Also, there are multicast channels that are not available on satellite.

pf


----------



## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

Yes.

My local FOX, CW and PBS affiliates are not on DirecTV. (Neither is MyNet, but I never watch it, does anybody?  My FOX local will probably be added to DirecTV soon.)


----------



## steve053 (May 11, 2007)

Yes. My CBS affiliate is not offered in HD, also PBS at time. It's also great when there is rain fade.  

On the otherhand, I wouldn't miss it on the 2nd tv in the basement. I'd be more than happy with a good/fast/solid HD box - especially one with MRV capabilities!


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Yes - Rarely

Why - Because I could :grin: 

If it wasn't for me liking to tinker with things, it would be a no.

I get NBC, CBS, ABC & Fox all in HD via D*. I personally can't tell a difference.

I would like to see the local weather channels carried. NBC & CBS here.

As for the PBSs don't watch much if any of those. So the lack of ATSC is a non-issue for me.


----------



## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I still have "basic" cable which includes digital stations so the 2 (ABC, and PBS) that aren't on my D* local HD, I can get this way. 
Also use the cable when storms knock out D*. Based upon one of those bundled deals it actually costs me about $2 a month for the cable which is worth it.


----------



## lokar (Oct 8, 2006)

Yes, D* does not offer HD locals in my area (Boise, ID) so I get all 5 networks and their various subchannels OTA.


----------



## waynebtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Yes to get my locals in HD only SD on D* right now.


----------



## GeorgeLV (Jan 1, 2006)

No, as there are not OTA signals in my area, so the DirecTV HD locals are the only way to get them.


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

No. Get my locals(DC) from D*

Located in the NW corner of Virginia, approximately 60 miles from DC. The Blue Ridge Mountains get in the way to the east, and the Appalachain Plateau to the west.


----------



## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

No, not at all. D* offers our HD locals.


----------



## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

I watch all my locals through OTA, even though DirecTV provides most in MPEG4.

Here in Los Angeles you still need KCAL9 for Lakers and Dodgers games in HD, plus KCET PBS and all the other channel's subchannels.


----------



## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

RAD said:


> LIN owns our local NBC affiliate so OTA it is for that station. Our local PBS doesn't bother firing up the HD channel until 8PM everynight so I don't bother with them. Other then that I usually use the MPEG4 channels, mainly to keep an eye on D*, plus it allows for more recording time on the old HR20.


Also CW is in the same boat, but I rarely even tune to that station.

Yep, me too!

I suspect I will not need the OTA on the D* receiver going forward anyway since the newer TV's have both ATSC/NTSC tuners built in. No need in dupicating the scenario.


----------



## Ken984 (Jan 1, 2006)

Yes All the time, no HD locals offered from D*here. I have 2 ATSC capable Tv's but it's so much more convenient to use the D* box for all of it, the integrated guide is worth a LOT.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes - Some. Primarily for PBS stations. I get ABC, NBC, CBS , CW and FOX on satellite feed so there's not a huge need for it. However, KCET-DT and KOCE-DT send out top notch PBS programs.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Don't even have HD yet, but voted as per my future plan.

When I convert to HD in a few months, I have no plans to include OTA.

Living in the Dallas area, I get all the HD channels I want from D*. Add to that the fact that I don't have an OTA antenna and don't really want to get one and put it on my roof. The only reason I'd want one is for rain fade issues, but that's never been much of an issue for me. Even in the last 3 months where we've had rain and storms almost every day in the Dallas area, I've probably lost my signal half a dozen times at most and never for more than 5-10 minutes.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

brott said:


> BTW, I fully believe the (relative) accuracy of the poll numbers here. However, I don't think that these numbers will represent the DIRECTV user base as a whole. The audience here is biased. The installation numbers that RobertE presented in another thread (40:1 in favor of NOT using OTA) may be more representative of the DIRECTV population.


They are biased in KNOWLEDGE and HDTV.

Yup, DirecTV basically force feeds their customer non-OTA (I know, it was a battle to get two of my friends installed by DirecTV) and then claims no one wants it?

You explain to average TV watchers that they can get more with an OTA antenna and they want one.

I maintain that DirecTV is biasing their customer base. They say they have the locals but then quietly tell you that it is just some of them.


----------



## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Even though D* has our big 4 lit up I still use OTA so I can get the best picture possible. Don't care for subchannels because of what they do to the main HD feed so I don't watch them. 

Chose OTA all the time.


----------



## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Yes - all the time here too. No FOX, CW, Mynet, or PBS on our D* HD programming. FOX is owned by LIN so we all know why that isn't there. Not sure why we don't get the HD versions of the others, and I don't really care since OTA got turned on.

Plus we get the one weather subchannel and 4 PBS subchannels via OTA.


----------



## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

I use OTA mainly for PBS, and it's subchannels. When I record the "big 4", I use D*'s feed, as the quality is good, and I've heard it uses less hard drive space.


----------



## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

yes, 85% of the time

for sub channels D* don't carry. PBS, NBC Weather Plus, and My-TV.
CW network
during T-storms i can still watch live TV


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

man_rob said:


> I've heard it uses less hard drive space.


It does use less hard drive, approximatley 40% less.


----------



## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes.

CBS is not on HD local here. We watch PBS all the time.


----------



## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It does use less hard drive, approximatley 40% less.


Due to that reason I sure wish D* could break the stalemate with LIN, because between Cowboys games and various episodes of 24 and House my hard drive was pretty full last year. Maybe I should actually look into that external hard drive...


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I use OTA for PBS, CW and MyNetwork (both HD and SD programming, since the digital up-rezzed SD is better quality than Directv SD).


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> They are biased in KNOWLEDGE and HDTV.
> 
> Yup, DirecTV basically force feeds their customer non-OTA (I know, it was a battle to get two of my friends installed by DirecTV) and then claims no one wants it?
> 
> ...


"Force Feed" and "biasing their customer base".

Right now the two HD series receivers available for purchase are the H20 and the HR20... they both have OTA.

Neither unit has been announced to cease production (even with the Field trials of the H21 starting).

If you truely want OTA, you will have an option (at least at this point).

I will still contend that "Average Joe"... just wants the big-4... doesn't really care about the sub-channels, and really doesn't want a "Radio Shack" antenna.

Just take a look at the major Consumer Electronic stores (Such as BestBuy and Circuit City)... their selection of OTA antenna's is TINY... Even Radio Shack, they may have 1 or 2 instock, everything else they have to order.

Terk and those types try to sell the "hidden" antennas, which we all know stink.

I think those retailers have a real good pulse on what the Average consumer (the target user base), wants for their home.

"We" (arms circling the bulk of this user base), are past the hump in the Bell curve on this.

"We" are not Joe P Q Public, who just got a $800 deal on a Vizio LCD and now wants to get and HD signal to it, with the wife chirping that she doesn't want an ugly antenna on the roof.

And with the capacity for 1,500 more locals in HD on the horizon... that will cover a LOT of channels...


----------



## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I haven't had an antenna connected to any TV for over 25 years. I just don't have a need for it.
Maybe it's because I don't know what I'm missing.
I've made this comment before. Haven't we been trying for the last 30 years to get rid of antennas. 
For my siuation though, I am 40-50 miles from the major towers.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "Force Feed" and "biasing their customer base".
> 
> Right now the two HD series receivers available for purchase are the H20 and the HR20... they both have OTA.
> 
> ...


Sorry, Earl. When we asked for OTA one time, we were asked "Why would you want that."

My experience is that DirecTV downplays OTA. They don't even train all of their field guys in putting OTA in!

Your post is over-rationalizing. There have been articles posted here and avsforum that OTA is popular when it is explained.

As for DirecTV providing all locals. They don't do it even in SD for me, so why would I think they will in HD? I live between markets (Baltimore and Washington) and even though they could give me DC stations based upon frequently viewed out of market, they have categorically said "no" every time I have asked about it.

I will still want OTA for those stations.

And, no, I don't think the retailers have a good handle on what is wanted once the consumer knows what he wants.

To assume that business knows what it is doing is naive. Let me tell you about Panera bread, who always runs out of popular breads early on Sundays but states (from corporate) that they are doing well because they sell everything they make.

Let me tell you the stories of many, many businesses that lose their way because they THINK they know what they should supply.


----------



## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Yes. For summer afternoon monsoon rain fade, and the many local channels and sub-shannels that D* does not carry. I see no or very little difference between OTA and D* personally so I usually watch/record D*, less drive space used. Still have to use the TV tuner to pick-up programs not in D*'s data base.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Well... I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I have explained OTA to several people in the area (even people that are not even "friends", just happen to know of someone that told them to talk to me).

I flat out expalin what they would need, and what they would give them.

All except one, opted to go with out the OTA... Usually because they don't want an Antenna on the roof of their house to deal with, and here in Chicago... DirecTV, Dish, and Comcast all provide what they need for their usage with out an antenna.

The one exception was a die-hard nut on Chicago sports, who wanted to get the WCIU games in HD as well. And he had the same model house as me, so we were able to do the same type of attic install I did (to hide the antenna).

I am in a part of ChicagoLand, that unless I put up a MASSIVE antenna, I am not going to get any Channels from other DMA's..... So the importance of OTA, may be VERY dependent on where you are, and what you gain by using an OTA reception method.


----------



## 5678YN (Jun 29, 2007)

Yes have been OTA for years only recently getting locals in HD from D* but only for local RSN NESN in HD for Sox & Bruins. 

Only D* local HD channel I use is NESN; all other local is OTA that for me has a slightly better pic. Also use OTA for PBS HD; not included in D* locals.


----------



## dwrats_56 (Apr 21, 2007)

We watch OTA all the time, because that is the only way we can get the local HD channels. Even when D* eventually adds to HD LIL channels here in Central Missouri, I will still do OTA because of the sub channels and local weather channels.

Once I got the HD TV and HAD to be able to watch the Super Bowl in HD, the only choice I had (for me) was to purchase a Radio Shack antenna and install it in the attic. Great picture for all of the local digital channels.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tonyd79,

While it is true that many people enjoy OTA for the very reasons you describe, it is highly unlikely that the vast majority of people are interested. I know my parents wouldn't want it and most of my friends would not want an unsightly antenna on the roof. In addition, the area I am in is limited by mountains, so it is not always available.

I fully agree with what Earl stated. In addition, OTA is a non-revenue product for DIRECTV. Think of it as suggestive selling ketchup in McDonalds. Why offer something for free if the customer doesn't want it. Sure, make it available (the H20), but why offer it up?

Just my humble opinion.


----------



## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

Yes, I use it for most of the local affiliate feeds and all the sub-channels with one exception. Our local ABC affiliate is a VHF broadcast and I actually get a better picture on that via DTV than OTA.

OTA is very nice when recording two channels and I want to watch a 3rd. I just flip the input on my HDTV to OTA and off I go.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Go on a field trip. Go find a new (last 10 or so old) development. Count the number of houses with an antenna.

Joe Sixpack, doesn't care about or want OTA. They just don't. As Earl stated, the poll is so far outside the bell curve its not even funny.


----------



## Richi (Sep 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "Force Feed" and "biasing their customer base".
> 
> Right now the two HD series receivers available for purchase are the H20 and the HR20... they both have OTA.
> 
> ...


Well finnally a topic that is dear to my heart. D* seems to go their way and I another. There are about 4 channels south of the border ( Tijuana) that are now broadcasting digitaly 3 in high def (repeated signals from Mexico City whose PQ is second to none. I persnally would love to see D* enable the HR20 to do scan function so that I may be able to pic them up. As of now, I have to use a secondary zip code of the Phenoix area to see only three of the four channels. I need to record some the program that originate from Meico City. The H20 has the scan function enabled but it cannot record. It seems that D* has its heart set on VOD which is ok. But don't shaft us OTA lovers.:nono:


----------



## dgsiiinc (Jan 25, 2007)

I voted Yes-rarely. I like to watch PBS programs several times a month and every once in a while I'll watch a local news subchannel. I would probably watch more OTA if I had better reception, but the MPEG4 locals have moved my antenna upgrade project to the back burner.


----------



## mlciskey (Nov 25, 2005)

Yes often. There are no D* HD locals in central Illinois


----------



## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I've got it all setup, but PBS in HD is all I really watch - and only rarely since the signal strength is so unreliable for me. For a few months it was pretty good. Now it's crap. For the others, I occasionally glance at them just to compare the pq with what DTV is bringing us.


----------



## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Go on a field trip. Go find a new (last 10 or so old) development. Count the number of houses with an antenna.
> 
> Joe Sixpack, doesn't care about or want OTA. They just don't. As Earl stated, the poll is so far outside the bell curve its not even funny.


Agreed. My house is 7 years old and it's one of the oldest in my subdivision. I am the only one with an antenna. At least a few of my neighbors have D* or E* though, and aren't wasting money on TWC!


----------



## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Go on a field trip. Go find a new (last 10 or so old) development. Count the number of houses with an antenna.
> 
> Joe Sixpack, doesn't care about or want OTA. They just don't. As Earl stated, the poll is so far outside the bell curve its not even funny.


IMO...Just because you don't want it doesn't mean nobody does and I think this poll shows just that. Everybody I know that has d* has and uses some sort of antenna to get ota. Be it hidden or not. So I don't think this poll is as skewed as you think. 
Again thats IMO.


----------



## bcherry (Apr 1, 2006)

I use OTA occasionally for the sub-channels. I also can get OTA channels from a secondary market that isn't available to me over the satellite. However, most of my recording is done using the satellite feed because of the limited space on the installed hard drive.


----------



## MrMolding (Nov 16, 2006)

Yes. I use OTA all the time -- not all of the subchannels are present with the HD locals. I actually prefer the OTA picture vs the HD local picture from my HR20 and H20. I originally got hooked when my older SAT 300 put my OTA and Directv channels together in one guide. 

Regardless, I seriously hope that they don't phase out support for it because I'm the last Directv hold out on my street. One SD and two HD Directv customers left and have gone to FIOS which has every OTA local and subchannel in the DC area.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So the importance of OTA, may be VERY dependent on where you are, and what you gain by using an OTA reception method.


I had my HR20-100s installed last Friday, and I had OTA hooked up to it by... Saturday, I think. I live in a DMA not served by HD-LIL (or SD-LIL for that matter) via DirecTV... so OTA is kind of a big thing... and is certainly one IMPORTANT reason why one might want OTA.

I went through a lot of trouble to get my local channels in HD (WALB-DT and WFXL-DT) when the stations were broadcasting low-power 8 miles or less from me... and had to deal with a lot of reception problems back then when CBS-HD and ABC-HD were coming in SOLIDLY via DirecTV. Had I been able to get NBC and FOX in HD via DirecTV, I wouldn't have bothered. I would have been able to save the money I spend on the antenna, preamp, rotator, poles, concrete, cable, and saved me time, effort, and a ton of agravation... plus, we've had several antennas get hit by lightning over the years... and I don't like the idea of having a lightning rod next to the house.

That being said, I like having the antenna as I kind of like the weather sub-channels as they can come in handy during storms, I got to experience "The Tube" for a little while which is pretty cool, and I watched a sub-channel showing "The CW" a month or two before it came to DirecTV... as well as allowing me to use a TiVo Series 2 stand-alone this past year, and the TiVo Series 3 these past few months... but I never would have bothered with it had I had a choice.

But like Earl said, that doesn't go for everybody. I know somebody with Dish Network who was thinking about upgrading to HD this past year or two until he found out that he couldn't get HD-LIL from Dish Network. I told him he might be able to get ABC in HD, and I was pretty sure he could pick up CBS in HD with an antenna, but I think he's waiting on getting them via dish.

~Alan


----------



## starbuck99 (Jan 26, 2007)

Yes, all the time no HD OTA offered by D in my area. However I will always have OTA for backup in case of rain fade.


----------



## PlanetBill (May 8, 2006)

Always use OTA to get local weather (radar and stuff like that).


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well... I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
> 
> I have explained OTA to several people in the area (even people that are not even "friends", just happen to know of someone that told them to talk to me).
> 
> ...


Funny, Earl, my experiences are the exact opposite. Maybe it is in how we explain it to our "customers." Every time you mention an antenna you say something about it being unsightly or having to "deal with it" so I somehow doubt you are very upbeat about it.

Not intentionally, of course. I just know that enthusiasm or lack of the same in a topic steers people as much as anything else.

And, yes, you live in Chicago and you get lots of channels. I remind you that many people live inbetween markets. When advocating something or not here, please remember that not everyone lives in one of the largest cities in the nation and not everyone lives far from other cities.

Personally, I think DirecTV is wrong in this move with the H21/HR21 and somehow I kind of doubt that we will continue to have OTA and non-OTA boxes side by side for a long period of time.


----------



## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

Why does that fact that some people like and use OTA and others don't seem to be a problem? 

It is all about choice. 

Having an OTA input that works gives DTV's customer base a choice and if they knew how to explain it, a differentiator in the market place. 

The "Average Joe" may never care about OTA but for those of us that do, I am glad it is there. Average Joe may never care about things like on-demand 4 wheel drive in his SUV, but for some of us who do, I am glad it is there.

... climbing down off soapbox. Please feel free to throw stones


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Funny, Earl, my experiences are the exact opposite. Maybe it is in how we explain it to our "customers." Every time you mention an antenna you say something about it being unsightly or having to "deal with it" so I somehow doubt you are very upbeat about it.
> 
> Not intentionally, of course. I just know that enthusiasm or lack of the same in a topic steers people as much as anything else.
> 
> ...


Actually I don't describe it at all like that... I flat out say you will need a "Radio Shack" style antenna... and that is it.

Also... we have ZERO information about HR21 at this point... only the H21

And yes, I am very aware that not everyone lives in the major cities or close to them...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jwd45244 said:


> Why does that fact that some people like and use OTA and others don't seem to be a problem?
> 
> It is all about choice.
> 
> ...


Where is it a problem?
We are just discussing the impact of OTA, and who uses it....

I could care less if the guy down the street get's all HD via OTA, his choice.

But if that OTA choice, costs $$ and is not going to be used... why have it in the box, and not offer an option to not have it ?


----------



## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I have zero experience w/ implementing and using OTA, but I would be surprised if OTA did not stay incorporated into the HR21.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I have zero experience w/ implementing and using OTA, but I would be surprised if OTA did not stay incorporated into the HR21.


I will be.

You think the H20/H21 transition doesn't presage where they are going?


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually I don't describe it at all like that... I flat out say you will need a "Radio Shack" style antenna... and that is it.


Ah, that is key, right there. Few need what you probably define as a "Radio Shack" antenna and if you don't think that turns them off, I would bet you are wrong on that.

I have never used that term. It is a turn off to many. They think big behemoth. Which is nonsense unless you live in the boonies.


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Well here's how I see these results:
1: there is a large user base here that has been with D* long enough to have had to put up an antenna (remember not to long ago you couldn't get any locals) 2: the installers aren't seeing (and freinds) the need for it since a lot of people are coming from cable and have never seen what is missing.
so bearing that in mind: congrats to D* for adding so many locals BUT don't leave those of us who still want (and need) thier OTA


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Ah, that is key, right there. Few need what you probably define as a "Radio Shack" antenna and if you don't think that turns them off, I would bet you are wrong on that.
> 
> I have never used that term. It is a turn off to many. They think big behemoth. Which is nonsense unless you live in the boonies.


When I call it an OTA... they say huh?
When I call it an Ariel... they say huh?
When I refer to it as a "Christmas Tree" style, they start to get an idea...

Hence why I refer to it as a "Radio Shack" style, as it immediately clicks...

What term do you use? That you don't have to re-explain it a number times, till they understand what you are talking about?

Most of my neighboorhood, the people are in their 30's... and grew up with cable... I remember my family getting their first cable-system when I was 4.

Even though some of them know EXACTLY what I am talking about, a lot of them have never had an ariel antenna, or even know what Ghosting, the pleasures of having to re-aim it after a bad storm... ect...


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But if that OTA choice, costs $$ and is not going to be used... why have it in the box, and not offer an option to not have it ?


How much does it really cost?

And what about the cost of having multiple "standards?" (An argument that doesn't seem to be understood for the single arm dish DirecTV is still giving customers.)

I thought DirecTV was into making minimal configurations because of costs. If so, that tells me they are going away from OTA and the 21 series is the start of it. I seriously doubt they will offer a choice for very much longer.

I am sure their mindset is what you stated earlier...we will have 1500 local HD stations (and we have no idea if they will support subchannels or not yet), so why do you need OTA?

How much more per box for the OTA tuner? What is the real cost analysis.

You know auto manufacturers almost elimnated cigarette lighters because people were not smoking much and they "cost money." Then everyone started developing adapters for the outlets and now cars boast how many they have.

Sometimes cost is not really cost.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jwd45244 said:


> Why does that fact that some people like and use OTA and others don't seem to be a problem?
> 
> It is all about choice.


I would certainly agree that DIRECTV should provide options to do both. However, from DIRECTV's point of view, it would make sense to make the default "free" receiver exactly what the H21 is. There's no reason to have an ATSC tuner if one is not needed. Certainly if the customer requests access to OTA, it should be available. Perhaps both the H20 and the H21 will be sold side-by-side for the foreseeable future. If you want OTA, choose the H20 - if not, choose the H21.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> When I call it an OTA... they say huh?
> When I call it an Ariel... they say huh?
> When I refer to it as a "Christmas Tree" style, they start to get an idea...
> 
> ...


No term. I show them.

Ghosting? This is digital. Re-aiming? I have never had to reaim an antenna in my life unless you get other damage. Now you are just exaggerating. I guess dishes never misalign, huh? I guess I had better get cable.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

brott said:


> I would certainly agree that DIRECTV should provide options to do both. However, from DIRECTV's point of view, it would make sense to make the default "free" receiver exactly what the H21 is. There's no reason to have an ATSC tuner if one is not needed. Certainly if the customer requests access to OTA, it should be available. Perhaps both the H20 and the H21 will be sold side-by-side for the foreseeable future. If you want OTA, choose the H20 - if not, choose the H21.


The problem is stocking, training, customer education and even giving the wrong thing to the customer.

Heck, we don't trust the average CSR to know much of anything and you want them to make decisions on what equipment to send out on such a granular level?

There is a reason cable tends to be one size fits all in equipment. It is cheaper in the long run and fewer errors.


----------



## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Yes, I use OTA part of the time. I get the main 4 HD (ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox) from Directv. So, I use the OTA to get CW and PBS. Also, I use it for the sub channels (Weather, The Tube, ect...) Also, I am in the middle of 2 DMA's So, I have it pointing south to get those channels and I still can pick up my main DMA (St. Louis). So, I pretty much have 2 of all networks.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> No term. I show them.
> 
> Ghosting? This is digital. Re-aiming? I have never had to reaim an antenna in my life unless you get other damage. Now you are just exaggerating. I guess dishes never misalign, huh? I guess I had better get cable.


Sorry... should have clarrified it a bit more; Ghosting, in reference to life before digital broadcasts (Aka the reason why most people HAD antennas before, and then why Cable was such a big deal when it first came out), the joys of working with an arial before there was digital broadcasts. (Today we just get to worry about Multicasting, Digital interfearence, other other things)

What is one of the number one things we point out about OTA-Digital... you either get it, or you don't... there is no ghosting.

As for dishes never misaligning... they do, but most dishes are installed on the side of the house, or just on the easment... not usually at the peak of someone's home.

(And if the dish is properly installed, the chances of misalignment are low... just like an OTA antenna... if properly installed, it shouldn't)

As for the No Term... and you show them.
My personal one is installed in my attic, that is accessible through a closet.... so I am not lugging anyone up to my bedroom to show them, unless they really want to see it.

In a drive around my neighboorhood (and the subdivision next to us). There is a total of 1 antenna installed (The one I referenced in the other thread, which people were making comments about the guy being "cheap" ).....

In the new homes being built... OTA and Arial antennas are not how the houses are being built, they are being built and wired for Cable/DBS... If it wasn't for me insisting (And paying the extra), to have a wire run to that extra attic... I am not sure how I would have installed the OTA in my house.


----------



## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

brott said:


> I would certainly agree that DIRECTV should provide options to do both. However, from DIRECTV's point of view, it would make sense to make the default "free" receiver exactly what the H21 is. There's no reason to have an ATSC tuner if one is not needed. Certainly if the customer requests access to OTA, it should be available. Perhaps both the H20 and the H21 will be sold side-by-side for the foreseeable future. If you want OTA, choose the H20 - if not, choose the H21.


The customer shouldn't have to request it. If you live in an area like mine, small market, small towns. D* will never carry the few local channels that are available here. They would be making a big mistake losing the ota tuner.


----------



## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

I would think there is always a reason to have an input for OTA. I don't think that Directv will ever carry all channels available in a DMA (mainly sub channels).


----------



## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

Yep, All the time


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Yes, for the following reasons:

1. OTA still gets signal in the rain.

2. Sub Channels

3. PBS-HD

4. The ability to pick up more than once city's locals.


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Also this is kinda like the whole "HD" thing.. if we hadn't see it we would wonder why anyone wanted it.. Right now they are playing all kinds of comercials for "HD radio"- I have no idea what channels are avalible on it.. and unless the radio in my car dies I problaby never will.. might be some cool stuff there.. but if yoou don't have it you don't miss it...


----------



## dpfaunts (Oct 17, 2006)

I believe most non DBSTalkers are ignorant of the the great sub channel benefit especially if you can get the PBS HD feed. I think there are the epitome of the couch potato never stretching the boundaries and waiting for the next episode of American Idol


----------



## apace (Feb 1, 2007)

CTJon said:


> I still have "basic" cable which includes digital stations so the 2 (ABC, and PBS) that aren't on my D* local HD, I can get this way.
> Also use the cable when storms knock out D*. Based upon one of those bundled deals it actually costs me about $2 a month for the cable which is worth it.


Same here. No DTV HD locals yet. I'm thinking about putting up an OTA antenna.
I'll keep either basic cable or OTA for emergency use (no DTV signal) and HD locals. My locals are in Huntsville, AL 65 miles away. My wife doesen't want me to install a large outdoor antenna. Still trying to talk her in to it though.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bcrab said:


> The customer shouldn't have to request it. If you live in an area like mine, small market, small towns. D* will never carry the few local channels that are available here. They would be making a big mistake losing the ota tuner.


Think bigger picture here .. Unfortunately, if DIRECTV isn't interested in sending locals down to your area because it is too small then it is likely that DIRECTV isn't interested in making something available to everyone just so that the small town market doesn't have to ask for a receiver with an ATSC tuner. Besides, I was generalizing. DIRECTV may set their scripts up such that areas not served by locals via the SAT are defaulted to the H20 instead of the H21 anyway - thus removing the requirement for you to ask.


----------



## EdK99 (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes I watch them sometimes just to check out the sub channels that have the local current weather conditions. I get the 4 major networks from DTV so I rarely watch them OTA.


----------



## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

If it wasn't for PBS HD, I would not use OTA at all.


----------



## The_Geyser (Nov 21, 2005)

Yes - Some

Mainly for the channels D* does not have.


----------



## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

I use OTA to watch the Yankees games in HD on WWOR MY9 which is not yet carried in HD by D*. Occasionally I'll watch the WNBC Weather Plus subchannel.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

I use OTA quite frequently. 

Like others for PBS (great stuff there), weather if I am too lazy to walk to the PC, and due to rain fade. Other times just to verify that an issue is that of the local feed -- not DTV.

Plus, its free!


----------



## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

I said yes and mentioned some reasons in the H21 discussion thread. Also seeing here the mention of PBS HD and CW HD were other reasons OTA is appreciated here.


----------



## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Yes, only way to get NBC in HD (Lin). No advantage for subchannels since all of the locals dropped theirs due to the FCC ruling about "Family Programming". Only PBS had a subchannel.


----------



## DVRaholic (Nov 19, 2005)

Some of the Time - Whenever the Yankees are on My-9
and Local Networks whenever we are having a thunderstorm!!!

I would like to record my Network shows from the OTA channels, 
But since MPEG-4 takes up less space I usually record from these


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Yes, I use OTA all the time. 

1. D* only offers 4 HD signals, with the OTA I get 30.

2. I prefer to get a first generation signal, instead of a re-broadcasted signal, for better PQ.

3. I use only 2 D* receivers and feed 4 TV sets, with their signals. Having an OTA on the TV's allows more choice when the two main receivers are being used.


----------



## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

No, not connected, same with RobertE, I get NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX in HD with D*. I never watch PBS and can care less about the CW and the MyNetwork as neither carries any sports or anything I might want to watch for that matter. Would like to have the weather from either the NBC or CBS affilates sub channel though.


----------



## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I had a indoor antenna connected but I removed it because I only watch ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX out of my locals and the DIRECTV MPEG4's look just as good.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

DCSholtis said:


> No, not connected, same with RobertE, I get NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX in HD with D*. I never watch PBS and can care less about the CW and the MyNetwork as neither carries any sports or anything I might want to watch for that matter. Would like to have the weather from either the NBC or CBS affilates sub channel though.


Too bad on the weather sub-channel in your area. It is a great substitute for those still wanting the local Weather Channel, and comes in handy for traffic/construction info as well.

I agree on the CW and MyNetwork -- for the Pittsburgh DMA at least. Nothing I especially want to see, but the wife loves the non-stop reruns of _Friends_ and the PQ of the feed sent to DTV is just horrible here. Although, a Cheers episode now and then is nice...

I too get the "big 4" networks LIL in HD from DTV and the OTA (again) can be a lifesaver when having company over for a game when a big thunderstorm rolls through knocking out the signal at an inopportune time.


----------



## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

ABC, NBC, and CBS via Mpeg4 HD. FOX via waivers, and Mpeg2 HD. The rest PBS, MyNetwork and the CW via OTA. I also pick up CBS feed from the next DMA over, and NBC WeatherPlus for local weather. Also every once in a while, maybe twice a year I am able to recieve Boston OTA for a few hours!! Thats really good because I am in Maine!


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> No term. I show them.
> 
> Ghosting? This is digital. Re-aiming? I have never had to reaim an antenna in my life unless you get other damage. Now you are just exaggerating. I guess dishes never misalign, huh? I guess I had better get cable.


I don't know your age, but I vividly remember ghosting in the analogue realm and today's digital equivalent, multi-path distortion and how that can affect an OTA ATSC tuner. I've realigned several antennas for people and myself.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## hdfan01 (Feb 1, 2006)

My area has all 5 networks in HD, and its fantastic! Feel fortunate to receive them, and I'm really looking forward to what's coming this fall from D*.


----------



## Homebrew101 (Jul 12, 2006)

D* only carries 3 locals in HD in my market (not even CBS!). I get 8 in HD OTA and that doesn't include any sub-channels which are necessary during March Madness! This is reason enough to me to keep my H20's. 

One of my 3 HD sets doesn't have an ATSC tuner inside and OTA is a nice backup for rain fade situations. The wife gets kind sour if we get rain fade unless I can use the OTA.


----------



## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

For all of the reasons mentioned by others I use OTA. But here's the priority listing:

1) Not all local channels available
2) Less rain fade with OTA
3) Quality (although if item 1 was dealt with I'd probably have no need for OTA because the MPEG4s are pretty darn good in STL)

I do use the MPEG4 equivalents for recording usually though (at least until I buy and attach an ESATA to the HR20)

Chris


----------



## onin24eagle (Aug 6, 2005)

Didn't realize you were asking about the HR20. I don't have one, but I do use OTA instead of D*'s feeds due to better picture OTA.


----------



## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

We use it for PBS, some of the kids' shows, and NBC's Weather Plus.


----------



## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

onin24eagle said:


> Didn't realize you were asking about the HR20. I don't have one, but I do use OTA instead of D*'s feeds due to better picture OTA.


I think the question was about whether or not HD users use the OTA feature - H20, HR20, etc. The main driver is that the "new" HD boxes (H21) don't have OTA built into them.

Chris


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

BudShark said:


> I think the question was about whether or not HD users use the OTA feature - H20, HR20, etc. The main driver is that the "new" HD boxes (H21) don't have OTA built into them.
> 
> Chris


BINGO


----------



## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

I voted "no", but only because I have trees in the way. I fought OTA for 2 years before finally giving up on it.


----------



## jclarke9999 (Feb 10, 2007)

I only use it during storms to get the NBC weather sub-channel. And sometimes during football season to get the Bengals in HD.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Being in a smaller DMA we have no HD from D* yet, so I use OTA for almost all our network shows (even the ones that aren't in HD I record OTA), so I use OTA ALL the time!


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The clear answer from this group is that > 50% use OTA frequently. You could argue that it's greater than 60%.

Perhaps we should do a WAF check  I'd guess that the results would not be so positive. I also think that most (if not all) everyone here would agree that DIRECTV should continue to offer OTA in their HD products. This hitch is that there is now the H21 which does not and this has led to speculation that OTA support will be phased out. If the HR21 has OTA support and/or the H20/HR20 series continues to be produced, then it's unclear to me why folks think the H21 production is a problem. Clearly the per-unit cost will be cheaper and the singular aspect of support for the H21 will be cheaper than support for the H20 - although combined it's likely more costly.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Use it all the time. My NBC-HD is not up on DirecTV (LIN BURN IN H$LL) so OTA is the only way for that one. Plus I've kept my season passes on OTA just because of little chance of rain fade. Only exception is CBS which I get better via MPEG4 on the sat then I do OTA.

Plus I love the weather radar station subchannel during storms.


----------



## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

purtman said:


> We use it for PBS, some of the kids' shows, and NBC's Weather Plus.


same deal for me but my pbs is a national feed on wgbh 2.2 out of boston.
I like the weather plus on 7.2.
i can get about 20 channels via ota including some providence ri channels and i am on the mass NH border all with an radio shack vu 120 antenna (kind of old but it works great) and if i go up and beam it north east i can pick up some maine hd as well.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

houskamp said:


> In light of the new stuff coming out, and since there is a big group of regulars here:
> Do you use the OTA on your HR20?


Yes, all the time even though my local area has MPEG-4 HD.

I should add, my choice to use OTA over MPEG-4 really has nothing to do with picture quality. I just prefer trick play performance of OTA HD vs. MPEG-4 HD. I guess I better get used to MPEG-4 TP since when the new HD goes live, I'll be doing a lot of it.


----------



## feets (Jan 27, 2007)

yes. we get over 30 ota channels ....cbs...nbc...abc...fox..cw...pbs etc...have 50' tower with rotor get several markets....... ..on hr-20 and samsung t-360..


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

feets said:


> yes. we get over 30 ota channels ....cbs...nbc...abc...fox..cw...pbs etc...have 50' tower with rotor get several markets....... ..on hr-20 and samsung t-360..


I'm jealous. Not sure my neighbors or my CC&R's would allow that.


----------



## hankmack (Feb 8, 2006)

Never. We get no OTA here in the mountains, All of the nearest locals are on Direct.


----------



## daveriv (Jan 10, 2007)

yes - all the time. My local PQ via D* was pretty bad during football season last year so I put up the antenna and it has now become habit to use the ota. i haven't recently checked to see how much (if all) the hd locals via d* have improved - maybe i'll test again during football season


----------



## Kishore (Feb 11, 2007)

I use OTA all the time for PBS and CW44


----------



## mazter (Jul 4, 2006)

I use OTA all the time. I pull in all of Boston and all of Providence / New Bedford with a cheap radio shack u75 antenna. I think it would be a mistake if Directv stop's supporting OTA. I can see making the H21 for those who are not interested in OTA.


----------



## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

I have to use OTA, the locals aren't available in my area in HD via Sat.


----------



## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

OTA for everything.... i don't even have the NY MPEG4 or MPEG2 locals in my guide. all series links are set up on the OTA channels. the slightest bit of moisture causes the MPEG4 channels to go haywire... considering i'm only about 20 blocks from ESB, OTA is much much more reliable.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

daveriv said:


> yes - all the time. My local PQ via D* was pretty bad during football season last year so I put up the antenna and it has now become habit to use the ota. i haven't recently checked to see how much (if all) the hd locals via d* have improved - maybe i'll test again during football season


Fox 40 looked terrible last season. I worked with the engineer and the issue was tied to a bad encoder in West Sac.

It is FAR improved now.


----------



## khoyme (Jul 4, 2007)

Well, getting good Wx info during a storm is a safety issue. There are three sources of data when severe weather is rolling in - radio, Internet and TV. Since Sat TV is not reliable in bad weather, having access to it during a storm is important to us. 

That said, having a decent antenna input into a TV in the home is adequate for this need. I don't need to DVR weather info in a storm. While I would prefer my sat receiver have the OTA input so I don't have to switch, I will ensure that I have OTA signals available whatever D* does with their receivers. 

That said, as a preference, I would like to be able to DVR the extra channels in the OTA stream, and would much prefer to have an integrated channel set when surfing. I don't want to have to be aware of what input the TV is on as a function of what channels are available. The beauty of the OTA inputs on the sat receivers is all of your channels are there in numeric order. 

Important for WAF.


----------



## kylebj (Dec 2, 2006)

No. I am very disappointed with the OTA turner in the HR-20. I only get one channel where I use to get at least 10 with my H-20. This has been my only complaint with the HR-20...knock on wood. I was hoping to record Veronica Marrs in HD, but of course with that gone, no reason to watch the CW.


----------



## TheDurk (Mar 8, 2007)

Some--mostly for local broadcasts of Yankee games in HD on My9 (local independent) and PBS.


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Hearing that the H21 will not have an OTA tuner, I hope they will also continue to carry the H20 as an available unit. I know I can switch inputs on my TV to get Weather Plus and other HD and digital stations that D* doesn't offer, but the convenience of it all on one unit is great.


----------



## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm starting to use my OTA more and more. I find that fast forwarding through mpeg2 commercials is much easier than the mpeg 4 that D* gives me for my locals.

Also, I get a couple of locals in HD that D* doesn't offer, like PBS and CW.


----------



## rrrick8 (Mar 20, 2007)

kylebj said:


> No. I am very disappointed with the OTA turner in the HR-20. I only get one channel where I use to get at least 10 with my H-20. This has been my only complaint with the HR-20...knock on wood. I was hoping to record Veronica Marrs in HD, but of course with that gone, no reason to watch the CW.


As far as reception of the OTA channels, I have no difference between my HR-20 and H-20's. The problem was getting the channels to show up in the scan to get them on the guide. A few e-mails to the stations engineers got that remedied.


----------



## boilerjt (Jan 12, 2007)

All of the time for me. I have no D* HD locals and I'm hoping they will show up after D11 becomes a reality. I do have a waiver for the CBS East Coast HD since my local CBS station (60 miles away) is taking their sweet time getting their new tower erected.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I record OTA more than anything else.


----------



## ChrisPC (Jun 17, 2003)

D* has all the major locals in HD here, but I use OTA for the subchannels. I mainly watch the weather subchannel on the ABC affiliate. The PQ between the OTA and satellite HD is very close now, but it wasn't originally.


----------



## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

I responded "Yes all the time", but I have only had the HR-20 for a couple of days and I know know yet whether I will stick with the OTA through the HR-20, or go back to a direct hookup to the TV. Need more time to decide that.


----------



## thxultra (Feb 1, 2005)

Yes, When D* goes out during storms good old over the air still works great and they say we made progress


----------



## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

I answered "some" because I only use it this time of year if there is something on my local PBS that I couldn't get otherwise. Ask me again during football and basketball season and I'll say "as often as a game is available" -- that means all the time.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

Yes...absolutely!

It's the only way I can DVR anything in HD, or sub-channels, from the locals.

My market only offers SD locals via the birds (...and I don't think market #67 will be up in HD real soon, either).

Plus, SD via OTA looks a heck-of-a lot better than the compressed signals via D*!

I can understand if D* eliminates OTA tuners in their non-DVR boxes (hopefully they would offer both solutions...however), since you will have an ATSC tuner built into the new TVs.

But, I hope they never remove them from the DVRs. Nothing looks better than an OTA digital signal, period. (...I'm talking broadcast only. Not, other 1080p media sources.) Plus, I do suffer rain/snow signal loss frequently.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

In Chicago, I use OTA for:

Local Weather:
5-2 NBC Local Weather, better than Weather Channel on Cable
7-3 ABC Local Weather, even better still

Missing Local Channels:
11-1 PBS, not offered by DIRECTV, far better HD than any DIRECTV channel.
11-3 PBS, alternate PBS feed
26-1 WCIU, not offered by DIRECTV, needed for Cubs games, etc.

OTA Trickplay (Cruise Control) are much better.

Sat Local HD is still not as good but close, saving a lot of disk space.

DIRECTV has a big reason for offering local channels via Satellite instead of OTA:

Commercial sales.

ARPU is the watchword for the entire industry. ARPU is the average _revenue_ per user. The old paradigm was that ARPU was synonymous with average monthly subscription fees. But that is changing. Commercials are the fast growing component of ARPU. DIRECTV gets no ad revenue from OTA.

- Craig


----------



## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

Yes. More channels at this point. Also no rain fade issues.


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

I probably watch OTA more than I watch D*. We get 17 OTA digital channels and they're not yet available in my area from D*.


----------



## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

Rarely anymore.

I get locals in HD with the exception of Fox so I use OTA if I watch Fox 

That's it.


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

In stormy weather, OTA is much more reliable than D*. Exception here would be PBS, which is on VHF ch 9. It has awful A/V dropouts during nearby thunderstorms.

The FCC should've abandonded the entire VHF band for digital OTA TV broadcasts.


----------



## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

I voted Yes - Rarely

I used to use it exclusively, but not that the DVR recording with OTA get me the unauthorized content message I have resorted to recording over the satellite.

It was a nice option incase of rain fade but I guess that is gone now.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Kansas Zephyr said:


> ...
> My market only offers SD locals via the birds (...and I don't think market #67 will be up in HD real soon, either)....


At least you get SD locals. I have waivers for the four networks for SD/HD and The CW for SD. OTA for us lacks NBC and The CW (cable only). MyNetwork is on a subchannel (awful PQ). My DMA is 157, so you can see where we are on the list.


----------



## alucard (Jun 24, 2007)

I have it connected in case we have a storm and the signal goes out. Otherwise direcTV has all of my locals and in hi-def.


----------



## BlueSnake (Oct 6, 2006)

No. The tuner on my HR20-700 does not work all that well. I use the tuner on my Panny for OTA, it works much better.

I do use the OTA on my H20, that tuner works much better.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> DIRECTV has a big reason for offering local channels via Satellite instead of OTA:
> 
> Commercial sales.
> 
> ARPU is the watchword for the entire industry. ARPU is the average _revenue_ per user. The old paradigm was that ARPU was synonymous with average monthly subscription fees. But that is changing. Commercials are the fast growing component of ARPU. DIRECTV gets no ad revenue from OTA.


They'll get no ad revenue from local off-air broadcast stations delivered via satellite either. D* can't insert their own commercials on the local off-air broadcast signals, neither can the cable companies. They can only insert them on the national/regional channels with specific barter/compensation agreements.


----------



## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

I use OTA occasionally since I'm in between markets. I prefer the NBC affiliate one town over for local news, but they are analog only (still!) which means flipping to the TV tuner anyway. When the weather's right, my main TV will get PBS-HD but the picture quality (until recently) was unacceptablely pixelated. 

PBS-HD aside, only ABC-HD puts a signal here, which I get on D* anyway. So an ATSC tuner doesn't do me much good despite watching OTA some.


----------



## magellanmtb (Nov 19, 2006)

Yes, all the time. It my first choice when watching local channels, except NBC. For some reason NBC is flakey in the new york area. Right now OTA is the only choice for PBS (13), (9) and (11).


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

Blitz68 said:


> I used to use it exclusively, but not that the DVR recording with OTA get me the unauthorized content message I have resorted to recording over the satellite.


Huh?
I've never seen that message.


----------



## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

I use OTA exclusively for network programming. Since I am in the Fort Smith/Fayetteville, AR DMA, it will probably be a LONG time before we get HD Locals.


----------



## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

I use it for my local PBS HD as well as subchannels for weather and news


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

krock918316 said:


> I use OTA exclusively for network programming. Since I am in the Fort Smith/Fayetteville, AR DMA, it will probably be a LONG time before we get HD Locals.


krock, yes, it will be a long time. FSM/FAY isn't even on the list for D* or E*.

You can always "move" to Mena, Ark. They're in the LR DMA and the entire town qualifies for NY HD DNS.


----------



## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

arxaw said:


> krock, yes, it will be a long time. FSM/FAY isn't even on the list for D* or E*.
> 
> You can always "move" to Mena, Ark. They're in the LR DMA and the entire town qualifies for NY HD DNS.


If it's in the Little Rock DMA, how can it also qualify for DNS?


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

It's in the LR DMA, but hey can't pick up any OTA digital TV in Mena (and probably no analog TV, either). And since local HD isn't available, they are automatically eligible for NY. No waivers needed.

Go to:
http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx
Enter any address in Mena. Example:
100 Main St
Mena
Arkansas
71953

(They are in Polk County)


----------



## flyingtigerfan (Feb 16, 2005)

I have no HD locals in the Columbia, SC market so it's my only choice. But it's not a bad one - a directional antenna in my attic gives me good signals to NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, and PBS. CW and MyWhatever don't have digital signals (ok, they do, but at like half a watt). Since the towers are all within 10 degrees of each other, I don't have to rotate the antenna or anything like that. Even once we get HD locals, and I would guess we will get them in the next few months, I will almost certainly leave the antenna functional. I hear the MPEG4 locals are supposed to be excellent quality, but it's hard to beat the OTA.


----------



## REDSKINSFAN47 (Sep 2, 2007)

Yes,i l get Baltimore stations from D*. I often watch Washington DC channels and cw,my network tv HD,subchannels. Except my24,I think its still low power.


----------



## mdernst (Dec 24, 2005)

Yes - all the time.

I think I get some sort of pleasure from watching HD content received OTA - i.e., for FREE!  I know it would make more sense to record my locals from DTV's MPG4 transmission as it would likely take up less space on the hard drive but I can't help myself.

Also, there are the rare occasions when thunderstorms are going by during a scheduled recording and I won't lose the OTA signal whereas I would lose the satellite signal.

Mike


----------



## 2Guysfootball (Jul 2, 2007)

Sorry I voted before i read the whole first post.

:imwith: :kickbutt:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Some.

I have it on 2 HR20-700's via SWM diplexing. I have another unit without it.

I think of it more as a "warm fuzzy backup" and for comparison testing than a necessity.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The only local station I can receive OTA is CPTV (PBS) . I watch it a couple of times a week (Nova, TOH, etc).

As for the rest of the locals, I live in a OTA vacuum. I once put an antenna with seven 5' poles on the roof and still couldn't get my locals. Between me and the locals towers is only about 45 miles but there is a rise in terrain in the way that is higher in elevation than the towers are....Bummer

Also, D* doesn't have CPTV or local ABC in HD...Bigger Bummer 

Mike


----------



## STEVEN-H (Jan 19, 2007)

Use it all the time. No HD locals from D here in the nations 48th largest city. Also comes in handy when it rains and I can not get D.


----------



## philslc (Dec 2, 2006)

houskamp said:


> In light of the new stuff coming out, and since there is a big group of regulars here:
> Do you use the OTA on your HR20?


I use OTA for the networks and PBS because I can do it with my Tivo Series 3. It gives me a real 30 second skip.


----------



## Spike (Jul 4, 2007)

YES, All of the time

But thinking of unhooking it! I get more channels if I exclude the DVR.


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

DVRaholic said:


> Some of the Time - Whenever the Yankees are on My-9
> and Local Networks whenever we are having a thunderstorm!!!
> 
> I would like to record my Network shows from the OTA channels,
> But since MPEG-4 takes up less space I usually record from these


Indeed, the Yankees have been in HD a lot, thankfully on My 9 this season. It's great to be able to pause the OTA game, and catch up at my convenience. The rumored prospect of NOT being able to do that with the HR21 makes me give it a 'thumbs down'.

Every now and then, I'll find something good on PBS but I'll admit that's rare. When I first got my CM4221 a couple years ago, I found more PBS stuff. It was new to me, I guess. Actually, isn't there a new Ken Burns series coming this Fall? Discovery HD Theater has plenty of those (PBS type shows) and soon History Channel HD as well.

I still record "Everybody Hates Chris" from CW but we really never get to watch it.

I used to record everything OTA also but the saved space in mpeg-4 makes it worthwhile. However, I will never switch out my true favorites(eg. Lost, 24) from OTA because they are guarranteed to record in a storm, unlike satellite.


----------



## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

No locals on D* for us, so yes all the time.


----------



## gdn (Aug 5, 2007)

Yes - use OTA locals - tired of the breakups from the Sat locals - really bad after FF or Rew - Sat locals always pixelize for a second or two as they being playing again. Prefer OTA.


----------



## fwlogue (Dec 6, 2006)

Yes I use OTA for my HD LOCALS until Directv offers them VIA satellite


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Yes, I just installed the HR20 last week and its actually pulling in my local ABC-HD channel, which I can not get on my TV or other 2 HD-DVR's.


----------



## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

Does anyone know when Lafayette,La Locals are coming out.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ... once WCIU is available via SAT...


Don't you mean "IF" WCIU is available via SAT? DirecTV has had years to add more than just the current CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and WGN feeds, but they have yet to do so. I don't see WCIU coming for years, if ever.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> Don't you mean "IF" WCIU is available via SAT? DirecTV has had years to add more than just the current CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and WGN feeds, but they have yet to do so. I don't see WCIU coming for years, if ever.


You do realize, that with the addition of D11 to the fleet, that they will have the capacity for 1,500 HD-Locals...

So... where do you think those locals are going to come from... If ever DMA had their HD locals added for the big four, that is only 1,000 (250ish DMAs IIRC).

So that is still another 500...

Be we know that not all DMAs are going to be added...

So yes, when WCIU is added... and since it is a sports carrying station, and does carry HD content... I think it will be added MUCH sooner, then a "few years"..

I wouldn't be surprised if it is not carried in time for the 2nd half of the NBA season.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, I for one wouldn't complain. The SD feed of it is horrible--almost as bad as the White Sox themselves!


----------



## code4code5 (Aug 29, 2006)

I didn't vote in the poll, because mine is a unique situation. I had an OTA antenna set up in my attic, and if anyone else is familiar with the OTA situation in Denver, then they'll really be impressed that I was pulling in every DTV station in the metro area.

Problem is, my D* installer cannibalized my OTA line for the second tuner when my HR20 was installed. I really miss being able to see PBS in HD... they had some of the most beautiful pictures out there. Additionally, another of our PBS stations would multicast SD programming and had some wonderful documentaries (Ears Open, Eyeballs Click, for one.)

In hindsight, I should have made my D* installer drop a new line, but he did a good job and even fixed my ungrounded cables without so much as a grumble.


----------



## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

I will only use OTA nothing worse than searching for signal during a storm. Even when my hd locals are on Direct I will still use OTA. The lines are already in place I see no reason to ever go back to sat for recording. The antenna is not that big or ugly.


----------



## TDTivo (Nov 3, 2006)

I use OTA for the locals because my market has not been lit in mpeg4 yet. I will most likely ditch it when we go live on D. But there is another issue I am hearing about now...If you ran out and bought a UHF HD ant. when the complete shut down of analog transmitters happens I'm hearing a bunch of the staions want to go back to their original channel numbers ie: low power VHF. leaving my 8 bay bowtie useless. I work for a network affiliate in Ohio and we have the D equipment up and running in house so I hope we will be going live soon.:whatdidid


----------



## RoundRockJohn (Apr 24, 2007)

Adding my two cents....

I use OTA on my HR20. NBC (KXAN) doesn't yet have an HD feed over satellite, so I insisted the installer run extra lines so I could get Heroes in HD (it wasn't cheap, but hey, it's Heroes). The installer couldn't get FOX HD OTA, so that's coming over the dish, but CBS, PBS, and ABC are watched OTA.

Also, PBS is a big deal to me. Frontline, POV, NOVA are all on my mandatory viewing schedule.


----------



## MonyMony (Dec 15, 2006)

REDSKINSFAN47 said:


> Yes,i l get Baltimore stations from D*. I often watch Washington DC channels and cw,my network tv HD,subchannels. Except my24,I think its still low power.


I do the same. Wish D* could offer both since I live so close to Washington (18 miles) and Comcast & Verizon carry both Baltimore and Washington Channels on their lineup here in Howard County Maryland.


----------



## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

I use it for the streaming. PBS has some good programs in HD and one of the other stations has some good kids' programs that never appear otherwise.


----------



## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

TDTivo said:


> I use OTA for the locals because my market has not been lit in mpeg4 yet. I will most likely ditch it when we go live on D. But there is another issue I am hearing about now...If you ran out and bought a UHF HD ant. when the complete shut down of analog transmitters happens I'm hearing a bunch of the staions want to go back to their original channel numbers ie: low power VHF. leaving my 8 bay bowtie useless. I work for a network affiliate in Ohio and we have the D equipment up and running in house so I hope we will be going live soon.:whatdidid


If it's a CM4228 8bay bowtie, it will work fairly well for most highband VHF channels 7 thru 13. I get 8, 9, 10, 12 & 13 with it just fine. All of those are digital except ch9, but ch 10 plans to move their digital station there when analog goes dark. I don't think I'll have any problems with it, since 10 analog is currently snow free @ 71mi away.

The biggest problem with VHF digital is impulse noise interference


----------



## geoallen (Nov 3, 2006)

I have no choice. To get my local channels in HD.:lol: 

geoallen


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So that is still another 500...
> 
> Be we know that not all DMAs are going to be added...
> 
> So yes, when WCIU is added... and since it is a sports carrying station, and does carry HD content... I think it will be added MUCH sooner, then a "few years"..


I know that it will not be possible for them to carry all HD & digital locals. In our area alone we have 31 available and D* currently gives us 4. That is why I don't understand them taking to OTA tuner out of the new H21.


----------



## bobpenn (Aug 17, 2006)

Yes. In Los Angeles, PBS channels 28 and 50, along with channels 9 and 13 are not covered via satellite in HD. All of these do broadcast in HD and yet are not on the system.


----------



## mdernst (Dec 24, 2005)

loudo said:


> That is why I don't understand them taking to OTA tuner out of the new H21.


Did I miss an announcement/news that stated that the HR21 was REPLACING the HR20?

Without seeing any such announcement I am assuming that the HR21 will be supplied right along side of the HR20 with the HR20 going to those customers that want or need OTA locals and the cheaper-to-produce HR21 going to those customers that don't want or don't need OTA locals. I haven't seen anything that indicates the HR21 has any additional features that the HR20 doesn't have. (Larger hard drive doesn't really count to me since we're all free to upgrade our HR20s by adding a larger eSATA drive.)

Mike


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

mdernst said:


> Did I miss an announcement/news that stated that the HR21 was REPLACING the HR20?
> 
> Without seeing any such announcement I am assuming that the HR21 will be supplied right along side of the HR20 with the HR20 going to those customers that want or need OTA locals and the cheaper-to-produce HR21 going to those customers that don't want or don't need OTA locals. I haven't seen anything that indicates the HR21 has any additional features that the HR20 doesn't have. (Larger hard drive doesn't really count to me since we're all free to upgrade our HR20s by adding a larger eSATA drive.)
> 
> Mike


I haven't seen anything stating that it will or will not replace the H20, just going from past practices, in the past when a new receiver/DVR comes out, they stop production on the old ones and they eventually fade from distribution. I sure hope they make both of them available.


----------



## Richi (Sep 13, 2006)

Yes, all the time. Need to record HD programing the is sent from the Tijuana stations which have been transmitting at a very high qualithality. BUT NEED TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SCAN OTA signals so that the HR20 can recognize them.


----------



## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

I absolutely use OTA, constantly. I get most of my HD content from OTA. And I will continue to use OTA a lot since I have something like 25 local digital channels (not even counting multi channels).

This is why I am surprised to hear the HR21 might not have OTA. I can't see the point.


----------



## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

No OTA here. Topography gets in the way - no line of site to OTA transmitters (NYC) without something like a 150 ft. tower.. 

The only choice for me is cable or sat. Switched to D* in 1999 when they intro'd HD service - cable (at that time) was way behind. Haven't looked back - even though my internet service is through that same cable....


----------

