# DBSTalk First Look: DIRECTV HR21-200 High Definition DVR



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

DIRECTV has just released the latest high definition DVR, HR21-200 to the public, and DBSTalk brings you the news first!









The unit is made by Samsung, and its capabilities are exactly the same as HR21-700. Current release version is 0x195.

We're extremely pleased to show you this "First Look" at the HR21-200, courtesy of DBSTalk field testers HDTVSportsFan and HDTVFan0001!

Warning, the first look document is about 5MB...

HR21-200 First Look

Enjoy!


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Nice document.  Thanks to those whose hard work put it together. :up:


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

More manufacturers means lower likelihood of unit shortages. Nice review!

Braces for the onslaught of "which is better the HR21-700 or the HR21-200" questions. Just to head that off... They are functionally identical.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

nice job guys!! 

and very nice fingerprintless pictures!! :lol: 

:goodjob:


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Editor alert!! 

"Hot on the heals"?
"While a quick peak"?

For the record, I'm not picking on anyone, the document just needs a little editor work....


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Great writeup, team!


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## sbelmont (Aug 5, 2007)

They installed one here at the company I work for in the CEO's office last week. I noticed some minor differences between it and the HR21-700 that I have but not much.


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## Button Pusher (Jan 19, 2007)

Nice work. Thanks for the report.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

As usual, great work guys!! :goodjob:


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## waynebtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Very good first look.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Good job team!


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

Is this going to mean we are going to have a Two-Hundred Nation with CEs?  

Looks good, the more HR21s the better!


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## rickeame (Sep 5, 2006)

Isn't it kind of weird to have a company release a new version of something with a LOWER number than the current one? How confusing.


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## TJFriday (Jan 21, 2008)

Wow... These just came out and I received 2 of these yesterday to replace a pair of HR10-250s. I hope they serve me well! Thanks for the prompt review, guys!


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

cforrest said:


> Is this going to mean we are going to have a Two-Hundred Nation with CEs?
> 
> Looks good, the more HR21s the better!


<---Runs and hides.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

rickeame said:


> Isn't it kind of weird to have a company release a new version of something with a LOWER number than the current one? How confusing.


the -200, -700 designates the manufacturer... and that's all... it's not a lower model.

-200 = samsung
-700 = pace


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TJFriday said:


> Wow... These just came out and I received 2 of these yesterday to replace a pair of HR10-250s. I hope they serve me well! Thanks for the prompt review, guys!


If you noticed the footer of the review....


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Great work guys. Informative, concise and professional presentation. I'm sure even our friends at Directv are impressed with it.


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## Tebbens (Nov 10, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> DIRECTV has just released the latest high definition DVR, HR21-200 to the public, and DBSTalk brings you the news first!


What do you mean by released to the public ?
Where can I get one ?

Are they sent out as a replacement for bad HR20s ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tebbens said:


> What do you mean by released to the public ?
> Where can I get one ?
> 
> Are they sent out as a replacement for bad HR20s ?


Released to the public...
As they have been in field testing for the last several months...

The HR21-200 are now hitting the installation tiers, and will be available in retail stores.

And yes, they can be sent out as replacements for bad HR20s....
Especially in cases where there is no need for ATSC.


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## Cable_X (Nov 12, 2007)

Given it's Samsung, does anyone know if someone with a Samsung TV can use the TV's remote? My TV's manual has codes for Samsung branded STB for it's remote.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

good job guys


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## TJFriday (Jan 21, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you noticed the footer of the review....


Yeah. I caught that... But still, for the new -200 series to be so pervasive in the channel so quickly, I can definitely see how there are few/no HR20s left for installation. These new Samsung units will definitely help keep their costs down as they indicated in their last investor call--good to see them executing on their plan. It certainly appears to be a much more efficient design. Fewer components, less PCB real estate and more efficient layout all equal lower manufacturing costs and less to go wrong. Let's hope they keep heading in the right direction.

Can't wait for the updates!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Cable_X said:


> Given it's Samsung, does anyone know if someone with a Samsung TV can use the TV's remote? My TV's manual has codes for Samsung branded STB for it's remote.


I sincerely doubt it. It is made by Samsung but uses the same remote codes as all DIRECTV-branded receivers.


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

Just got one yesterday and all seems well.

Dave


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## mdgolf (Apr 14, 2006)

A terrific review...until I spotted the "Bee Gee's" DVD in the next to last pic at the end!!:nono: :lol:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Cable_X said:


> Given it's Samsung, does anyone know if someone with a Samsung TV can use the TV's remote? My TV's manual has codes for Samsung branded STB for it's remote.


The remote is the standard DirecTV RC 64 remote. I think they're made by Universal. I'm sure it follows the same remote commands as the other HR21s. I know they're the same as the HR20-700 since I can take the remote from the HR21 and control an HR20.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Outstanding job on the first look!


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## sean10780 (Oct 16, 2007)

Good Job guys, as always keep up the good work.


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

my HR21-700 runs about 119 degrees (based on info screen), so if the test -200 unit runs about 115 degrees, there isnt much difference obviously between raised mounting and a dedicated fan on the -200 and the current configuration of the -700.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

mdgolf said:


> A terrific review...until I spotted the "Bee Gee's" DVD in the next to last pic at the end!!:nono: :lol:


I wasn't the one that privoded that pic.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

diat150 said:


> well, for starters, not having ota support is a deal killer for me. I just switched from from dish to directv about 4-5 months ago and luckily got the hr20-700, but even then I am unable to receive all of the channels ota that I could receive via dish and also the h20/hr10-250 because of the lack of a scan function and other limitations of the receiver.
> (...)


All due respect, this is a thread about the new receiver and the first look we have posted. There are many, many other threads about OTA support on the HR21 series, and comparing them to the Dish DVRs.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

As always, a terrific report, but you know that the one I’m waiting for is the report for the HR21P.

(Whoever gets those beta units is going to be the envy of everyone here.)

I can make out the manufacturers date on the back, 10/06/07, guess they have been in beta testing for a while. I was also surprised in the differences between the motherboards. 

As for the lack of a OTA, I have a HR20-700 and I do not use the OTA. 

Besides, with the upcoming AM21 OTA add-on module the lack of a OTA should not be that big of an issue.


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## KCPanther (Apr 5, 2007)

I just upgraded from the R-15 to the HR21-200. It was installed on Monday and works well so far...


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

Too bad DirecTv can get there head out of thier butts and send tyhe DVR of your choice when you ask. But agin AT&T and others are also the same.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Ratara said:


> As always, a terrific report, but you know that the one I'm waiting for is the report for the HR21P.
> 
> (Whoever gets those beta units is going to be the envy of everyone here.)
> 
> ...


 Somebody enlighten me. Is not the HR21-200 and the HR21 Pro one and the same? If not, what is the difference, other than both do not have OTA capability?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

johnp37 said:


> Somebody enlighten me. Is not the HR21-200 and the HR21 Pro one and the same? If not, what is the difference, other than both do not have OTA capability?


Two different products.

And both will not have OTA... accept via the AM21 add-on.

The HR21PRO... is a higher end, larger hard drive... Rack Mount sized.
With some additional connectors used by higher end theater systems.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Two different products.
> 
> And both will not have OTA... accept via the AM21 add-on.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, Earl for the quick reply. How soon can we expect a report on the Pro unit. I am looking forward to a detailed report on that as well. 
Great job on the HR21-200 report, gentlemen. Excellent!


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

dtrell said:


> my HR21-700 runs about 119 degrees (based on info screen), so if the test -200 unit runs about 115 degrees, there isnt much difference obviously between raised mounting and a dedicated fan on the -200 and the current configuration of the -700.


Which is surprising because the hr20-100s that have a similar fan setup typically run around 100 degrees... last time I checked mine, it was at 98.


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## diat150 (Nov 7, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> All due respect, this is a thread about the new receiver and the first look we have posted. There are many, many other threads about OTA support on the HR21 series, and comparing them to the Dish DVRs.


actually I was responding to another thread and clicked on the link to this thread in and got mixed up on my reply to the other thread. sorry about the mistake. I deleted the above post and put it in the correct thread.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

rickeame said:


> Isn't it kind of weird to have a company release a new version of something with a LOWER number than the current one? How confusing.


If you're referring to the -200, that's a manufacturer ID number that can't be incremented. -200 means Samsung, as I recall. -700 means Pace...so it has nothing to do with older/newer...the last 3 digits are a manufacturer ID.


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

gio12 said:


> Too bad DirecTv can get there head out of thier butts and send tyhe DVR of your choice when you ask. But agin AT&T and others are also the same.


TRUE, SO very true, kinda makes you scratch your head, and go hhhmmmmmm


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

Thaedron said:


> More manufacturers means lower likelihood of unit shortages. Nice review!
> 
> Braces for the onslaught of \\\\\\\"which is better the HR21-700 or the HR21-200\\\\\\\" questions. Just to head that off... They are functionally identical.


not exactly,

SAMSUNG and every other \\\"maker\\\" of electronics do not manufacturer anything with their names on them,

they farm it out to over seas \\\"for hire\\\" sub-contractor companies, who actually make the items,

meaning the SAMSUNG DVR and PACE DVR could very well be made in the same factory, the only thing samsung does is design work


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## fullcourt81 (Sep 8, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Two different products.
> 
> And both will not have OTA... accept via the AM21 add-on.
> 
> ...


and costs a whole lot more $$$


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Great job on the report.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

johnp37 said:


> Thanks, Earl for the quick reply. How soon can we expect a report on the Pro unit. I am looking forward to a detailed report on that as well.
> Great job on the HR21-200 report, gentlemen. Excellent!


No ETA


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Released to the public...
> As they have been in field testing for the last several months...
> 
> The HR21-200 are now hitting the installation tiers, and will be available in retail stores.
> ...


Earl,

What's the main reason dtv creating the HR21-200? Isn't the HR21-700 only around 4 months old?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

techm8n said:


> Earl,
> 
> What's the main reason dtv creating the HR21-200? Isn't the HR21-700 only around 4 months old?


They typically have two or three manufacturers for one product line.
This is done for several reasons...

One being Supply / Demand needs

Outside of the enginnering / development aspects of DirecTV.
And HR21 is an HR21


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

Great job on the review guys! Looks great! The HR21 is a nice, sleek looking piece of machinery.


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## junebug88 (Jan 25, 2008)

i just signed up with direct tv. Are they a way you can choose the receiver i want. I Would love to have the HR21-200.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

junebug88 said:


> i just signed up with direct tv. Are they a way you can choose the receiver i want. I Would love to have the HR21-200.


:welcome_s to the Forum and congrats on your first post! It seems that it's still tough to get the exact receiver you'd like. Some get lucky but they appear to have to fight for it. Your only for sure bet is to buy it from a local retailer - you know what you're going to get then.


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They typically have two or three manufacturers for one product line.
> This is done for several reasons...
> 
> One being Supply / Demand needs
> ...


Ah, that makes sense.

In case one vendor is lagging in manufacturing dtv boxes or goes belly up, they still have another vendor as backup. (Never put all your eggs in one basket).

Even though there are hardware differences with the HR20, HR21-700, HR21-200, as long as their running the same operating system and software, they're all technically the same in that sense. Just like Windows XP running on a Dell or HP hardware. Different hardware but both can run the same OS or third party software.


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

techm8n said:


> Ah, that makes sense.
> 
> In case one vendor is lagging in manufacturing dtv boxes or goes belly up, they still have another vendor as backup. (Never put all your eggs in one basket).
> 
> Even though there are hardware differences with the HR20, HR21-700, HR21-200, as long as their running the same operating system and software, they\\\'re all technically the same in that sense. Just like Windows XP running on a Dell or HP hardware. Different hardware but both can run the same OS or third party software.


as I stated in this thread earlier, manufactures mean little, as they do not actually make them, they farm out the manufacturing,

and they can be made in same plany as another \\\"brand\\\" so it does not matter if manufactures go belly up, it matters if the actual makers go belly up.


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

I would rather see it in a black satin finish. It will match most black receivers. Glossy just looks cheap!


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

crmlht0000 said:


> not exactly,
> SAMSUNG and every other \\\"maker\\\" of electronics do not manufacturer anything with their names on them,
> they farm it out to over seas \\\"for hire\\\" sub-contractor companies, who actually make the items,
> meaning the SAMSUNG DVR and PACE DVR could very well be made in the same factory, the only thing samsung does is design work


Farm it out overseas? Samsung is from South Korea! They are already overseas, to us.

I see many places on the web that describes Samsung's manufacturing facilities. I don't know about this particular product, but Samsung does manufacture electronics.

You are right about many manufacturers farming out work, but you're going to far when you say "do not manufacture anything." That's just not the case, sorry.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

crmlht0000 said:


> not exactly,
> 
> SAMSUNG and every other \\\"maker\\\" of electronics do not manufacturer anything with their names on them,
> 
> ...


Not true in the slightest. While most every electronics manufacturer farms work out to other companies, they also build things themselves. Just put _Samsung manufacturing plants _in Google and you'll quickly find they have plants all over the world, both for parts and finished goods.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

crmlht0000 said:


> not exactly,
> 
> SAMSUNG and every other \\\"maker\\\" of electronics do not manufacturer anything with their names on them,
> 
> ...


Very true in some cases. Though my main point was people fretting over whether they would get a -200 or a -700 because one was "better". And I believe that DirecTV's specific strategy here is to have distinctly separate manufacturing channels so that they are not bound to problems from "single source" vendors.


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

Carl Spock said:


> Not true in the slightest. While most every electronics manufacturer farms work out to other companies, they also build things themselves. Just put Samsung manufacturing plants in Google and you\'ll quickly find they have plants all over the world, both for parts and finished goods.


their names on the plant, but look at the owner, it is not samsung,

99.9% electronic are not made by the brand that appears on the product (and in directv\'s case) not even the brand behind it either.


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

Thaedron said:


> True, though my main point was people fretting over whether they would get a -200 or a -700 because one was \"better\".


that is true, i wished that if all diffrent \"manufacturers was making them, theyd make the \"guts\" the same, as that leads to the lessing of issues based on diffrences


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

paulman182 said:


> Farm it out overseas? Samsung is from South Korea! They are already overseas, to us.
> 
> I see many places on the web that describes Samsung\'s manufacturing facilities. I don\'t know about this particular product, but Samsung does manufacture electronics.
> 
> You are right about many manufacturers farming out work, but you\'re going to far when you say \"do not manufacture anything.\" That\'s just not the case, sorry.


meaning, they do not make it, they have a sub contractor, saying farming it out over seas is just a way of saying it,

because the america i remember, we used to actually build stuff here (still make some, but not on the scale we used to / on the scale we need to keep the USA prosperous


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

crmlht0000 said:


> their names on the plant, but look at the owner, it is not samsung,


SAMSUNG Opens Largest Wafer Plant In Austin, Texas



> Samsung has committed to an investment of $3.5 billion for the project, making it the largest single foreign investment in Texas and one of the largest in the United States. Previously, the largest foreign investment in Texas was the existing Samsung memory plant, which cost about $1.4 billion in 1996.


You really don't know what you are talking about.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Multiple suppliers also covers you in case one of the suppliers is no longer able to make equipment. Like when Thomson acquired all of Hughes set-top box manufacturing assets, and Hughes was the only maker of the HR10-250. 

There may be multiple manufacturers but all receivers are made to the same specifications and have the same menu system.


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## crmlht0000 (Jan 21, 2008)

Carl Spock said:


> SAMSUNG Opens Largest Wafer Plant In Austin, Texas
> 
> You really don\'t know what you are talking about.


hey genius, you just proved you truly do not know what you are talking about ...

that plant is making a PART for other people to buy, as a part to put in a \"complete unit\"

meaning genius, they are not manufacturing a complete unit (such as HR21-200 - TV\'S etc)


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Cable_X said:


> Given it's Samsung, does anyone know if someone with a Samsung TV can use the TV's remote? My TV's manual has codes for Samsung branded STB for it's remote.


The remote is from DIRECTV as always, so you won't find any better support with a Samsung receiver than you do with a Pace receiver.

My hope is that Samsung didn't have a hand in the HDCP implementation.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

crmlht0000 said:


> hey genius, you just proved you truly do not know what you are talking about ...
> 
> that plant is making a PART for other people to buy, as a part to put in a \"complete unit\"
> 
> meaning genius, they are not manufacturing a complete unit (such as HR21-200 - TV\'S etc)


:backtotop


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

Great document guys!


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

cmon everyone this thread is to celebrate a job well done in reviewing the DVR, not to take personal attacks on each other.

Please lets get back on topic



crmlht0000 said:


> hey genius, you just proved you truly do not know what you are talking about ...
> 
> that plant is making a PART for other people to buy, as a part to put in a \"complete unit\"
> 
> meaning genius, they are not manufacturing a complete unit (such as HR21-200 - TV\'S etc)


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Great work guys!!!

:goodjob:


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Woo-Who, Yee-Haw, Happy Days, looky there, a new puppy to grace the stage. NICE work folks putting this review together, you make it look fantastic and fun, THANKS!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jheda said:


> cmon everyone this thread is to celebrate a job well done in reviewing the DVR, not to take personal attacks on each other.
> 
> Please lets get back on topic


Actually it is to discuss the HR21-200... not necessarily the creation of the document.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

Are all the outputs hot ? Can I send HDMI output to TV and Component to Slingbox for simulataneous viewing?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

highheater said:


> Are all the outputs hot ? Can I send HDMI output to TV and Component to Slingbox for simulataneous viewing?


Yes, you can actually use every output at the same time. But you have to watch the same program.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I'm impressed with how much cleaner and simplier the internal layout of the HR21-200 is over the HR21-700. That's good engineering and could well give it greater reliability. It sure looks like it would be much easier for a technician to fix when it broke down.


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

Soooo is everything active on this thing yet??

i.e. DOD??


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## Eug (Nov 29, 2007)

Does this box run exactly the same firmware as the -700, or is it potentially less (or more) likely to freeze up every day than the -700?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Eug said:


> Does this box run exactly the same firmware as the -700, or is it potentially less (or more) likely to freeze up every day than the -700?


They're not quite at the same software version yet. But that could change soon and I expect they'll be the same.


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

Eug said:


> Does this box run exactly the same firmware as the -700, or is it potentially less (or more) likely to freeze up every day than the -700?


it will most likely have the same version number. but since its built different it would have different firmware.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

drx792 said:


> Soooo is everything active on this thing yet??
> 
> i.e. DOD??


Everything that you would get from another HD DVR running version 0x18a software.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

lwilli201 said:


> Great work guys. Informative, concise and professional presentation. I'm sure even our friends at Directv are impressed with it.


Thank you all for your kinds words. Both HDTVSportsfan and I appreciated the opportunity and hope everyone enjoys the information.

It was a labor of love.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

drx792 said:


> it will most likely have the same version number. but since its built different it would have different firmware.


To be clear, every manufacturer's device needs slightly different firmware to account for changes in manufacturing. Unlike a PC where it ships with every device driver it could ever want, and more are available online, the firmware package for a DIRECTV receiver contains only drivers for the hardware it needs.

Each manufacturer has some flexibility in meeting the specs for the device, which is why the HR20-700 is different mechanically from the HR20-100, and why both HR21s are different from each other.

What I have seen in the last year, is that there is an attempt by DIRECTV to give version numbers that correspond. While the R15 series has different version numbers for each manufacturer, the H20/H21, as well as the HR20/HR21, have consistent numbering so that if you're running 0x1EA on one device, you have the same functionality as another device running 0x1EA.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> SAMSUNG Opens Largest Wafer Plant In Austin, Texas
> 
> You really don't know what you are talking about.


Ever been in a wafer plant? I have. A silicon wafer plant. Used so much energy it was built close to the Grand Coulee Dam. Inside it was like being on a Star Wars set.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

crmlht0000 said:


> that is true, i wished that if all diffrent \"manufacturers was making them, theyd make the \"guts\" the same, as that leads to the lessing of issues based on diffrences


This isn't code, you don't need to break your quotes.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Great job on the First Look, gang! :up:

But couldn't you slip ONE fingerprint in, just for old times' sake?! ::lol:


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## flipper2006 (Oct 2, 2006)

I know it's been said 100x already, but, great job on the PDF contents! (I like the DVI box)


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rich584 said:


> Ever been in a wafer plant? I have. A silicon wafer plant. Used so much energy it was built close to the Grand Coulee Dam. Inside it was like being on a Star Wars set.


Next stop: a Google server farm. More cubic feet are involved in cooling than in the actual server area.

Wafer plants need lots of water which makes locating near a water source a bonus.

Most of the stateside wafer plants have closed down now due to competition and the cost of energy.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Wow, DBSTalk does awesome work and it is a option to pay for it! What a great place!


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## SAlBO (Jan 6, 2007)

Great job guys......Congratulations on a job well done....What a smooth looking machine. I especially like that piano black color.......I cant wait to get one myself.....*You should be very proud.....*


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Great job on the First Look, gang! :up:
> 
> But couldn't you slip ONE fingerprint in, just for old times' sake?! ::lol:


My pictures I purposely used Windex to insure no finger prints... :lol:


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

0X195 is the software level in the one I had installed yesterday. That is the downloaded latest. The original was 0x160.

My unit temperature is 109.

Dave


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> Very true in some cases. Though my main point was people fretting over whether they would get a -200 or a -700 because one was "better". And I believe that DirecTV's specific strategy here is to have distinctly separate manufacturing channels so that they are not bound to problems from "single source" vendors.


Or getting caught in a 'single source' stranglehold.

_Ohh you need 10,000 more units, we we need more money for this set because the workers want coffee breaks. No, ok, you will get them when we see fit to send them.._


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## TomF (Sep 20, 2006)

Mike Huss said:


> Editor alert!!
> 
> "Hot on the heals"?
> "While a quick peak"?
> ...


Another editor alert! Incorrect use of possessive instead of plural:

_"version 3 BBC's"_
_"HR21 series of DVR's_"
_"the HR20 series DVR's"_ (multiple)


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## pnyberg (Oct 31, 2007)

Loved the pictures of the installation too...couldn't help but notice the Bee Gees video at the bottom of the rack...great job gentlemen.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Nice job guys.

I just wish they would give us a color choice, so we could match our silver HR20's.


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## Pinion413 (Oct 21, 2007)

Great job! 

I love me these first looks.


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## lovswr (Jan 13, 2004)

Let me jump on the 'Great Job Express!' One question. What is the HDMI version?


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## gundyrat (Sep 3, 2006)

B Newt said:


> I would rather see it in a black satin finish. It will match most black receivers. Glossy just looks cheap!


 
I waited a long time for D-TV to offer gloss black to match the Rest
of my Pioneer Elite A/V components 
Gloss black is generally found on higher end products

The HR21-200 was a great review they really cleaned up the inside layout


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Nice job guys!


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Nice job on the first look guys!


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Great work fellows


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## babzog (Sep 20, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> More manufacturers means lower likelihood of unit shortages. Nice review!
> 
> Braces for the onslaught of "which is better the HR21-700 or the HR21-200" questions. Just to head that off... They are functionally identical.


Yeah... but which one is better? :grin:


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Very good review, guys. Thanks.


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## dthreet (Jun 6, 2006)

Very nice.


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## nevea2be (Sep 4, 2007)

I only skipped through the review and this thread but I didn't see anything on power usage. How much power does one of these receivers use when compare to the HR20-100, HR20-700, HR21-700 and the new HR21-200? With everything moving towards being more environment friendly I'm just curious as to how much power these things use both on and in off mode?



Edit; Great job with the review guys.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Great report, and thanks for taking the time.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

nevea2be said:


> I only skipped through the review and this thread but I didn't see anything on power usage. How much power does one of these receivers use when compare to the HR20-100, HR20-700, HR21-700 and the new HR21-200? With everything moving towards being more environment friendly I'm just curious as to how much power these things use both on and in off mode?
> 
> Edit; Great job with the review guys.


They're never really "off" unless unplugged. Typical power draw is ~40-45W for any of these DVRs.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> Wafer plants need lots of water which makes locating near a water source a bonus.


The main reason they located in Moses Lake, WA was the low cost of electricity. The cost of juice is so cheap there that the swimming pools are heated electrically.



> Most of the stateside wafer plants have closed down now due to competition and the cost of energy.


The plant was sold shortly after I visited it on a business trip. Don't know the reasons for the sale, but when you work for a corporation that is run by engineers, nothing is surprising. We also sold off Everyready batteries and Prestone. No wonder they went completely down the tubes and were bought out by a better run chemical company.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gundyrat said:


> Pioneer Elite A/V components


I just bought one of the Elite receivers and had to take it back because it was six inches too long for my cabinet. What a disappointment! You'd think they would have made it wider rather than deeper. Got a great price on sale for $587 but, back it went.

Rich


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## nevea2be (Sep 4, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> They're never really "off" unless unplugged. Typical power draw is ~40-45W for any of these DVRs.


Wow that sure seems like a lot of juice for something just sitting there doing nothing.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

nevea2be said:


> Wow that sure seems like a lot of juice for something just sitting there doing nothing.


It's not exactly doing nothing.

While in standby it is doing "housekeeping" chores like making sure guide data is up to date, checking to do list, etc.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> It's not exactly doing nothing.
> 
> While in standby it is doing "housekeeping" chores like making sure guide data is up to date, checking to do list, etc.


The disc is also still recording the buffer for the last channel tuned to, even it it's in standby mode.


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## achildfromthe80s (Mar 15, 2007)

Question! Don't know if this belongs here.

I've been having an overscan issue with my Samsung TV where i'm getting pieces of the closed captioning and tv info at the top of the screen.

Because this is a Samsung box, would this be likely to clear the sync issue up i'm having?

Brad


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## JoeCool123 (Jan 6, 2008)

Great job guys! Thanks for keeping us in the "loop"!


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

achildfromthe80s said:


> Question! Don't know if this belongs here.
> 
> I've been having an overscan issue with my Samsung TV where i'm getting pieces of the closed captioning and tv info at the top of the screen.
> 
> ...


Doubtful. That's not really a "synch issue". What you're seeing is an "overscan issue". The TV is displaying a bit too much of the video signal, so you're seeing the junk that's typically hidden from view. Does your Samsung provide any overscan adjustments?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> Great job on the First Look, gang! :up:
> 
> But couldn't you slip ONE fingerprint in, just for old times' sake?! ::lol:


For those not getting the inside joke.....

Before co-authoring this First Look, I also worked with Drew in the recent past on the HR21-700 First Look, which featured our famed "fingerprint littered" photo.

From all the handling, inside looks, and other manipulations...when we shot one of the pictures, we kinda forgot about our CSI evidence on the black surface.

Not to worry Drew - HDTVSportsfan and I learned from that first time around and worked hard not to repeat history.

With the popularity of the inside views the first time, as well as how much folks like pictures overall, we made sure to include plenty this time as well.


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## fetzervalve (Dec 26, 2007)

gundyrat said:


> Gloss black is generally found on higher end products


That seems to change over time, I had all silver in the 80's, then back to black a few years ago, and as I upgraded/changed I ended up with a rack full of silver, now I have a black HR21..., perhaps the tide is turning back to black. D'OH


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

fetzervalve said:


> That seems to change over time, I had all silver in the 80's, then back to black a few years ago, and as I upgraded/changed I ended up with a rack full of silver, now I have a black HR21..., perhaps the tide is turning back to black. D'OH


I remember silver in the late 70's early 80's, then black in the mid to late 80's, then back to silver, now back to black. Seems like they can't make up their minds. Wish they would give us a choice.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

OK, so who has received one of these bad boys since it was released to the public, and where does the box say it was made?


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Is Costco stocking the HR21-200?


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

I got one Thursday. Made in Indonesia. 

Dave


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## jhferry (Jun 12, 2006)

I have an install tomorrow, I wonder If I could request this.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

jhferry said:


> I have an install tomorrow, I wonder If I could request this.


You can request, but typically you'll get whatever the installer has in his truck.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> You can request, but typically you'll get whatever the installer has in his truck.


The HR21-200 is just starting to hit the distribution stream, so you corrently pointed out that its the" pick of the draw" as far as if the -700 or -200 will be delivered. Either way, they are very much alike anyway.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Congratulations to HDTVSportsFan and HDTVFan0001 for a job well done.

- Craig


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Links to all First Looks are now available in a single post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1419161

(Thanks to all those who suggested I do this)


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Links to all First Looks are now available in a single post:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1419161
> 
> (Thanks to all those who suggested I do this)


nice work stuart! looks good!


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## netconcepts (Jan 20, 2007)

I looked through the AM21 thread and found nothing about manufacturer compatibility.

Is the AM21 a universal add on to any H(R) 21 to receive OTA? If your H(R) 21 is a -200, and the AM21 is of -100 hardware, will it interface seamlessly?

Just a thought.

Being in the CPU biz, sometimes differentiating chipsets can cause conflicts even when the software manufacturer claims 100% compatibility.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

netconcepts said:


> I looked through the AM21 thread and found nothing about manufacturer compatibility.
> 
> Is the AM21 a universal add on to any H(R) 21 to receive OTA? If your H(R) 21 is a -200, and the AM21 is of -100 hardware, will it interface seamlessly?
> 
> ...


Yes, the AM21 should work with all versions of the HR21 HD DVRs.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The AM21 may possibly work with H21 (non-DVR) receivers but not initially.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

Nice wright up.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

netconcepts said:


> I looked through the AM21 thread and found nothing about manufacturer compatibility.
> 
> Is the AM21 a universal add on to any H(R) 21 to receive OTA? If your H(R) 21 is a -200, and the AM21 is of -100 hardware, will it interface seamlessly?
> 
> ...


Where are you seeing the AM21 is made by RCA/Tompson? (the -100)

I am unaware of any information comming out that has told us yet who is actually building the AM21


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## Denman (Jan 12, 2008)

I look forward to getting the the new HR, watched it go through the paces at CES.


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## netconcepts (Jan 20, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where are you seeing the AM21 is made by RCA/Tompson? (the -100)
> 
> I am unaware of any information comming out that has told us yet who is actually building the AM21


I do not know what the manufacturer number is. Using conjecture, it is more than likely that the AM21 could be a -100, -600 or -700. So there is a 25% chance that the AM21 is made by Samsung (-200), and a 75% chance of being something else.

Different chipsets breed compatibility issues in the computing world.

Look at ethernet , there are three major players; Intel, Broadcom, and AMD. And even more network switch hardware manufacturers. Each one interacts with enough difference that sometimes they causes problems in highly utilized networks. And yet they all adhere to the 802.3 standard.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

netconcepts said:


> I do not know what the manufacturer number is. Using conjecture, it is more than likely that the AM21 could be a -100, -600 or -700. So there is a 25% chance that the AM21 is made by Samsung (-200), and a 75% chance of being something else.
> 
> Different chipsets breed compatibility issues in the computing world.
> 
> Look at ethernet , there are three major players; Intel, Broadcom, and AMD. And even more network switch hardware manufacturers. Each one interacts with enough difference that sometimes they causes problems in highly utilized networks. And yet they all adhere to the 802.3 standard.


If you look at the "first look" threads all these DVRs run the same major chipset, so I don't think they will have many problems..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

netconcepts said:


> Is the AM21 a universal add on to any H(R) 21 to receive OTA? If your H(R) 21 is a -200, and the AM21 is of -100 hardware, will it interface seamlessly?


Given that we're talking about USB, the hardware interface is pretty simple so I doubt you're going to run into big electrical issues.

There is likely some other hardware on board that multiplexes the two, possibly HD, programs are hopefully supported by related hardware on the receiver side. I can't imagine that they're going to try to demux the feed in software.

Companies like Samsung, Thomson and Pace don't manufacture processing chips and as such, are going to be using someone else's chips for this kind of task.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

netconcepts said:


> Look at ethernet , there are three major players; Intel, Broadcom, and AMD.


You're being pretty snooty to leave out Realtek.


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## netconcepts (Jan 20, 2007)

harsh said:


> You're being pretty snooty to leave out Realtek.


I have never heard of Realtek inside of a core server or enterprise switch. But when Cisco bought LinkSys I am still hoping that we would not see any business class wireless routers with the LinkSys name.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

netconcepts said:


> Being in the CPU biz, sometimes differentiating chipsets can cause conflicts even when the software manufacturer claims 100% compatibility.


Think that's why so many people can't get the Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 to work with the 21s?

Rich


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

netconcepts said:


> I have never heard of Realtek inside of a core server or enterprise switch.


I agree, I haven't either and probably won't. It seems there space is in the entry low cost/low performing market.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm sure they do internal R&D compatibility and regression testing amongst the various DirecTV hardware.

One concurrent effort is their most recent strides to try to (almost) align firmware versions with many of the HD DVR's.

Surely, the hardware specs (despite the different manufacturers) are very much the same. It has already been established that the primariy chipsets in the various HD DVR box *series* (all the HR21's, all the HR20's, etc.) are the same.


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## netconcepts (Jan 20, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I It has already been established that the primariy chipsets in the various HD DVR box *series* (all the HR21's, all the HR20's, etc.) are the same.


That is interesting since the h20-100 and h20-600 run at such different temperatures. -600 being very hot to the touch. I have a -100 and my inlaws have a -600. They have different led colors and they have different firmware codes.

How can they be of the same chipset? If they were the same chipset then the firmware revisions would be common to all.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The design of the case, where the air vents are, routing of internal cables (especially ribbon cables), etc., all have a big influence on internal temperature - not just the chipset used.

Carl


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where are you seeing the AM21 is made by RCA/Tompson? (the -100)
> 
> I am unaware of any information comming out that has told us yet who is actually building the AM21


While at CES I snuck a peak at the back of the AM21 ..

In the post [post=1376798]1376798[/post]:


Doug Brott said:


> bhelton71 said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone ever say who the manufacturer was ?
> ...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

netconcepts said:


> That is interesting since the h20-100 and h20-600 run at such different temperatures. -600 being very hot to the touch. I have a -100 and my inlaws have a -600. They have different led colors and they have different firmware codes.
> 
> How can they be of the same chipset? If they were the same chipset then the firmware revisions would be common to all.


The temps can vary becuase of internal hardware placement, including where fans are placed and how many there are inside the unit.

For example, the HR21-200 has a fan below the hard drive and another in the rear, and the HR21-700 has another configuration for its fans. In both cases, they result in cooler temps inside as compared to the HR20 series, which had yet a different configuration of components inside.

These things were cited in both First Look documents.

As for the chipset...yes...the parts of the code corresponding to that aspect of the firmware may have continuity, however, there are alot of components that go into a DVR (video, audio, networking, satellite connections just to name a few), which may vary a bit.

Then end goal is to get as much similarity in the firmware as possible, as it reduces the future development and testing costs.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

achildfromthe80s said:


> Question! Don't know if this belongs here.
> 
> I've been having an overscan issue with my Samsung TV where i'm getting pieces of the closed captioning and tv info at the top of the screen.
> 
> ...


Just to interject on this essentially off-topic issue. I have this problem myself primarily with some of my LiL HD telecasts. Annoying CC and other vertical interval data appearing at the top of the picture. That is to say, the last part of the vertical blanking interval is inappropriately showing through from my HR21-200. And no over scan adjustments on my TV to compensate unfortunately.

OK, back on topic. Hey great review guys, just received my HR21-200 here in L.A. yesterday. Working fine so far, except for one bobble. While my brother and I were watching the Lakers-Toronto Raptors game yesterday evening (and in the midst celebrating the Laker's acquisition of C-F Pau Gasol  ) on D*'s feed of local KCAL-9DT. We suddenly experienced heavy pixilation, then complete breakup of the picture with an intermittent message stating "Sat input 2&#8230;.771." Did RBR which mostly corrected the problem, but still the picture would occasionally "burp" with more pixilation again thoughout the remainder of the broadcast.

Keeping my eye on it, but it did sort of spoil the good impression I wanted to make in the debut as we otherwise liked the PQ. And my brother wants to purchase one if mine here works out well.


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## mtnsackett (Aug 22, 2007)

so far I like the Hr21-200 but can't wait till the ota addon is available so i can have hd locals in our bedroom. seams to be as reliable as my hr20- 100 that we have had for almost 2 years


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## Islandguy43 (Oct 2, 2007)

great review and writeup!!


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## fullcourt81 (Sep 8, 2005)

netconcepts said:


> That is interesting since the h20-100 and h20-600 run at such different temperatures. -600 being very hot to the touch. I have a -100 and my inlaws have a -600. They have different led colors and they have different firmware codes.
> 
> How can they be of the same chipset? If they were the same chipset then the firmware revisions would be common to all.


What I understood was the reason for the heat was a different ( and better) OTA receiving unit inside the H20-600. It ran hotter than the one in the -100.


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## magicpwr (Jan 28, 2007)

Add me to those congratulating you on the terrific job. I have an DTV HD receiver and am considering upgrading to HR21-200. Do I understand, correctly, that it is still necessary to bring in two feeds for complete HDTV coverage? If so, can I have DTV install the SWM switch now, or not until some time in the future?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

magicpwr said:


> Add me to those congratulating you on the terrific job. I have an DTV HD receiver and am considering upgrading to HR21-200. Do I understand, correctly, that it is still necessary to bring in two feeds for complete HDTV coverage? If so, can I have DTV install the SWM switch now, or not until some time in the future?


You need two SAT lines if you want to use both tuners unless you get an SWM.

But the only way to get in SWM right now is an online retailer or Dave29 here and he can get them cheaper than you will find them any where else.

DirecTV has only released them in a few test markets so far and no word when they will be available every where through DirecTV yet.


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## magicpwr (Jan 28, 2007)

Is the SWM switch available now? If I upgrade my non-DVR HD receiver to the HR21 do I still need to bring two feeds to the inputs in order to receive the complete HDTV spectrum? Either way, it looks like I have to have DTV perform some kind of install. Thanks, guys!


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## magicpwr (Jan 28, 2007)

Thanks for your quick post, BMoreRavens! Where does the SWM get installed - where the cables from the dish enter the house or at the end of the cable feeding the receiver? Pardon my lack of tech knowledge.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

magicpwr said:


> Is the SWM switch available now? If I upgrade my non-DVR HD receiver to the HR21 do I still need to bring two feeds to the inputs in order to receive the complete HDTV spectrum? Either way, it looks like I have to have DTV perform some kind of install. Thanks, guys!


The SWM is not available yet through DirecTV and there is no word when it will be available yet.

You only need two lines if you don't have an SWM if you want/need to use both tuners.

So if you don't have an SWM yet and want to wait until DirecTV has them available every where you can use just one line and receive all channels.

You just won't be able to record two things at once or record something and watch something else at the same time.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

magicpwr said:


> Thanks for your quick post, BMoreRavens! Where does the SWM get installed - where the cables from the dish enter the house or at the end of the cable feeding the receiver? Pardon my lack of tech knowledge.


You need to connect all 4 lines from the dish to it to work.

But you can install it outside or inside where the cables enter the house.

But the PI (power supply) needs to be installed inside. But you can install that by the receiver if you want.


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## magicpwr (Jan 28, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> You need two SAT lines if you want to use both tuners unless you get an SWM.
> 
> But the only way to get in SWM right now is an online retailer or Dave29 here and he can get them cheaper than you will find them any where else.
> 
> DirecTV has only released them in a few test markets so far and no word when they will be available every where through DirecTV yet.


How can I get in touch with Dave29? I don't see his name in the members list.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

magicpwr said:


> How can I get in touch with Dave29? I don't see his name in the members list.


You can send him a PM but here is the thread he posted about being able to get them and all the people that have bought them from him.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114457


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## magicpwr (Jan 28, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> You can send him a PM but here is the thread he posted about being able to get them and all the people that have bought them from him.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114457


Thanks for the reply. Must be senility setting in - I found Dave on the members list. Duh! Sorry to trouble you. Thanks for the link!


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## ptremb (Feb 11, 2008)

Actualy the swm unit is available. I had my system installed yesterday and they used this unit (still has some growing pains yet as it didn't work and ended up barreling one line for the time being till a supervisor can check things out, but was told that that was the first one that didn't. Just my luck). The nice thing about this unit is it allows you to have up to 4 recievers run from the single cable coming into the house. Saves on having a stack of wires going thru the wall if you have all hd recievers.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As this has strayed way off topic, I'd say its time in the sticky zone has come to an end.


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