# American Idol (Top 7) - 04/11/2012



## Steve

Who did you like tonite? Who will be in the bottom 3 this week?


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## Steve

Here's my .02, FWIW:

The two performances I enjoyed the most tonite were Colton's and Elise's.

I thought the judges gave too much credit to Jessica, and were too hard on Hollie.

That said, I think the bottom three this week will be Hollie, Skylar and either Phillip or Jessica.

I think Hollie will be going home.


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## Alan Gordon

People should know this thread will have spoilers from tonight's episode, so I'm not going to use Spoiler tags.

*SKYLAR: * Actually, one of my favorite performances from Skylar. It was not her biggest moments, but unlike most of her songs, I thought it was strong from top to bottom. Nowhere near as nasally as usual.

*COLTON:* MASTERCLASS! Nothing more to say...

*PHILLIP & ELISE:* I LOVE to hear them do duets... and I love the song, so I was EXTREMELY pleased with this duet. Nigel told me so... and I'm in agreement.

*JESSICA:* I knew the song, and I thought Jessica was FANTASTIC with the emotion and the vocal performance she put into it, but I would have gone with another song. It was a great performance, but I think it might not connect with people as much as she'd want them to.

*JOSHUA:* Not my favorite performance by his, but it was nice to see him do an uptempo number and go a little more Pop and less Gospel. He looked like he had fun on stage too which was nice.

*SKYLAR & COLTON:* They were the weakest duet last week, IMHO, but I thought they were top-notch this week. Very good...

*HOLLIE:* Uh............................................................................................................................................... I thought this was one of her strongest performances. I thought the judges were incredibly harsh on her.

*PHILLIP:* Not my favorite performance of his... though I thought it started out great. I think it would have come off a lot better had he done it with just him and the guitar. It was kind of a middle-of-the-road performance for me for him.

*HOLLIE, JESSICA, & JOSHUA:* I was kind of underwhelmed by this. Joshua did pretty good... his harmonies when he was singing with Hollie were wonderful, but it just lacked something to my ears.

*ELISE:* Not quite the "moment" I was hoping for, but she had a strong performance, and I really enjoyed it.

*FAVORITES OF THE NIGHT?:* Colton & Elise
*FAVORITE DUET OF THE NIGHT?:* Phillip & Elise

*BOTTOM THREE?:* Hollie, Skylar, and ??????????
*LEAVING?:* Hollie

I thought they all did good tonight, and I will be sad to see anybody leave tomorrow. 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon said:


> *BOTTOM THREE?:* Hollie, Skylar, and ??????????
> *LEAVING?:* Hollie


I do want to add though that I think there could be a possibility that Hollie will stay simply as a side effect of the judges comments.

I think they were WAY too harsh with her, and I think that may throw some sympathy her way... or at least rally her fanbase.

I feel that's the one unknown factor that could change things.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> Who did you like tonite? Who will be in the bottom 3 this week?


P.S.... I really wish you had made the poll public. 

Other than that... thanks for saving me the trouble! 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

*Quoted from last week's thread:*



Henry said:


> I think they may be looking for a female champ this season. Four back-to-back male champs is a pretty good indicator that the judges/producers may be eyeing a female to win it. If that is in any way conceivable, then I think _Jessica_ is in for a good run. We will know once the judges start picking on the male singers in an effort to manipulate the vote in the girls' favor, akin to what they did for _Scotty_ last year.


Pimping of Joshua aside... I think that's pretty obvious.



Henry said:


> I don't think _Phillip_ will make the top three. IMHO he's too independent and set in his ways.


Do you remember last year's winner?! :eek2:

Did you hear Jimmy mention how Colton and Phillip are fighting for the girls' votes?

I'm not as confident as I once was, but I'm still going with the prediction that he'll be Top 3. I COULD be completely wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it... so far.



Henry said:


> What we need to look for is the SAVE. Once it gets used, all hell (_Pia Moments_) will break loose.


Next week is the last week it can be used, so it's happening either this week or next.

Usually... there's a Top 7 (and forward on) where there's one or two people that NEED to go home and keep hanging in there. I don't feel that way this year. I don't want to see ANY of these go home.

Even my two least favorite contestants (Colton and Skyler) have managed to have some GREAT moments in my mind... heck, Colton had one tonight.

It's definitely a good year in my mind.



Henry said:


> And those are not bold predictions ... just guesses.


They certainly aren't bold anyway...  

~Alan


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## Doug Brott

Alan Gordon said:


> P.S.... I really wish you had made the poll public.
> 
> Other than that... thanks for saving me the trouble!
> 
> ~Alan


I like it when not public ...


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## Alan Gordon

Doug Brott said:


> I like it when not public ...


You should see me whenever I go to vote... trying to contort my body in awkward positions so as to keep the persons behind me from seeing anything (most likely in vain). If this was a controversial issue, I'd like it private as well, but this is American Idol and...

I get really involved in AI... I like to see who voted for who... or equally important, the people who did not vote for certain individuals... I enjoy seeing trends in the voting here... etc.

I usually like my votes being viewable as well, but this week I clicked on everybody since I enjoyed all the performances... so mine is kind of boring this week.

To each their own... 

~Alan


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## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> P.S.... I really wish you had made the poll public.


It never occurred to me to. Sorry about that! I wanted to vote before I went to bed and didn't see a poll, so I took a shot at it.


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## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> *HOLLIE:* Uh............................................................................................................................................... I thought this was one of her strongest performances. I thought the judges were incredibly harsh on her.
> 
> [...]
> 
> *FAVORITES OF THE NIGHT?:* Colton & Elise
> *FAVORITE DUET OF THE NIGHT?:* Phillip & Elise
> 
> *BOTTOM THREE?:* Hollie, Skylar, and ??????????
> *LEAVING?:* Hollie
> 
> I thought they all did good tonight, and I will be sad to see anybody leave tomorrow.


Seems like you and I pretty much watched the same show last night, unlike Mr. Tyler. Poor Hollie. I'll be very interested to hear Jimmy's review tonite.

I think this will be a night when everyone gasps at who's in the bottom 3. Based on their comments the past couple of weeks, I don't see them using the save for Hollie. I can see them using it for Elise, if it breaks that way. You never know how the voting's gonna go.

I'd like to hear a duet with Elise and Colton next week. Phillip and Skylar as well.


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## hdtvfan0001

There were 3 times during the show where it was obvious Randy has an agenda...in terms of bringing Joshua to the top. While Joshua did a very good job last night...he was no more than 3rd in line. When Randy specifically pointed out how great Joshua was above the 2 girls in the trio song...it really stood out as to what he's thinking.

Joshua is # 2 in performance skills but # 4 in terms of singing skills...how much screaming of high notes can a person's ears take...?

Elise was perhaps the surprise of the night, followed by Hollie - both raised their game. I don't think either of them will win...but it was nice to see them do considerably better.

Not sure about Colton. He needs another banner performance to hold onto the top spot...it didn't come last night. Skylar is the dark horse...hanging near the top the past few weeks, with an occasional top spot.

If anything...I think last night was probably the most "even" for performances by all of them in some time...no one person glaringly stood out above the rest. The gradebook would read alot of B's, B+'s, and a couple of A-'s...


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## Doug Brott

I don't get the Judge's hate for Hollie .. She clearly doesn't have an advocate up there like most of them do. In her trio with Jessica and Joshua, I felt very strongly that all three of them did great and not one of them sang above the other. To bad Hollie couldn't use the unrated version of 'Perfect.' Then she could have told the Judges exactly where to go. :lol:

I thought Colton won the night followed by Elise. I thought Jessica sang lights out, she was great, BTW, but I can't help but think that she peaked last night. I don't see her upping her game for the remainder of the season (her career on the other hand is an entirely different story .. She'll do just fine.)


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## Holydoc

IMHO I think they all did a great job last night. If I had to choose the top two it would be Elise and Colton. I really wish Elise had a better following because she can definitely perform.

For the bottom three (since they always pick a bottom three), I would have to say Hollie (I just cannot connect to her. I think she sings well but she just wears me out when she performs since I can tell she is counting), Jessica (song choice was not great for me), and ...umm... probably Joshua (his singing was fine but it would have been like I was voting for the 1970's instead of 2010).

Will be interesting tonight.


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> It never occurred to me to. Sorry about that! I wanted to vote before I went to bed and didn't see a poll, so I took a shot at it.


I didn't watch the show live. I finished it at about 10:10, and my Uncle came over for an after-show discussion. 



Steve said:


> Seems like you and I pretty much watched the same show last night, unlike Mr. Tyler. Poor Hollie. I'll be very interested to hear Jimmy's review tonite.


Pretty much everything I read stated they thought the judges were too harsh on Hollie. Heck, even Nigel Lythgoe stated that he didn't think the judges were fair to her:



dizzyfeet said:


> I didn't think the judges were fair on Hollie but it's all subjective. I more than not usually agree with them. Interesting voting tonight!!


I don't know if he'd seen any of the voting, or was making a prediction, but it may have backfired on the judges. 



Steve said:


> I think this will be a night when everyone gasps at who's in the bottom 3. Based on their comments the past couple of weeks, I don't see them using the save for Hollie. I can see them using it for Elise, if it breaks that way. You never know how the voting's gonna go.


I'm not sure anybody is safe tonight... :eek2:



Steve said:


> I'd like to hear a duet with Elise and Colton next week. Phillip and Skylar as well.


I like Elise and Phillip too much... otherwise, I'd agree with you... 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There were 3 times during the show where it was obvious Randy has an agenda...in terms of bringing Joshua to the top. While Joshua did a very good job last night...he was no more than 3rd in line. When Randy specifically pointed out how great Joshua was above the 2 girls in the trio song...it really stood out as to what he's thinking.


There are three guys left in this competition. Vocally, Joshua is far superior to the both of them, but the other three have the voting edge. Yeah, Randy was pimping him last night, but I think it was completely understandable.

I stated that Joshua out sang both girls last nights prior to Randy doing so. Last week, he and Jessica were on par with each other... last night, he was superior to them both. I don't believe it was the right song choice...



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Joshua is # 2 in performance skills but # 4 in terms of singing skills...how much screaming of high notes can a person's ears take...?


WHAT THE FRAK?!?! :eek2:

To me this competition is which _*J*_ is better...



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Elise was perhaps the surprise of the night, followed by Hollie - both raised their game. I don't think either of them will win...but it was nice to see them do considerably better.


I think Colton was the surprise of the night. He's usually at the bottom of my list week after week, so to see him at the top is always surprising.

Elise was great, but I was expected even better...

Hollie was probably the second biggest surprise in my mind.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure about Colton. He needs another banner performance to hold onto the top spot...it didn't come last night. Skylar is the dark horse...hanging near the top the past few weeks, with an occasional top spot.


:eek2:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> If anything...I think last night was probably the most "even" for performances by all of them in some time...no one person glaringly stood out above the rest. The gradebook would read alot of B's, B+'s, and a couple of A-'s...


I thought Colton and Elise stood out a little bit, but otherwise, I don't disagree...

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> There are three guys left in this competition. Vocally, *Joshua is far superior to the both of them*, but the other three have the voting edge. Yeah, Randy was pimping him last night, but I think it was completely understandable.


Guess we'll just have to disagree on that...but Randy might agree with you...


> I stated that Joshua out sang both girls last nights prior to Randy doing so. Last week, he and Jessica were on par with each other... last night, he was superior to them both. I don't believe it was the right song choice...


Perhaps on his solo...yes...but I was referencing the trio specifically...and Joshua did NOT outsing the 2 gals on that gig...not even close. Randy seems on a personal mission with Joshua just like JLO was with her "pet" singer kicked off last week.


> I think Colton was the surprise of the night. *He's usually at the bottom of my list week after week*, so to see him at the top is always surprising.


Colton doesn't end up in the bottom though...so it would seems others don't share that view.

But it is neat to see different perspectives from various viewers each week of course. I enjoy your feedback as just much as anyone else's...I am wondering about the judge's judgment some weeks though.


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## Alan Gordon

Doug Brott said:


> I don't get the Judge's hate for Hollie .. She clearly doesn't have an advocate up there like most of them do. In her trio with Jessica and Joshua, I felt very strongly that all three of them did great and not one of them sang above the other. To bad Hollie couldn't use the unrated version of 'Perfect.' Then she could have told the Judges exactly where to go. :lol:


I disagree about the trio, but the other thought crossed my mind last night... 



Doug Brott said:


> I thought Colton won the night followed by Elise. I thought Jessica sang lights out, she was great, BTW, but I can't help but think that she peaked last night. I don't see her upping her game for the remainder of the season (her career on the other hand is an entirely different story .. She'll do just fine.)


Agree on Colton and Elise, but I strongly disagree on Jessica. I've heard multiple people say they didn't care for her song choice last night. They thought it was kind of boring. Perhaps if she had chose another Jazmine Sullivan song ("Bust Your Windows")... 



Holydoc said:


> IMHO I think they all did a great job last night. If I had to choose the top two it would be Elise and Colton. I really wish Elise had a better following because she can definitely perform.
> 
> For the bottom three (since they always pick a bottom three), I would have to say Hollie (I just cannot connect to her. I think she sings well but she just wears me out when she performs since I can tell she is counting), Jessica (song choice was not great for me), and ...umm... probably Joshua (his singing was fine but it would have been like I was voting for the 1970's instead of 2010).
> 
> Will be interesting tonight.


I can connect with Hollie, but yeah, she is not comfortable on stage, and that's her Achilles' Heel. I thought she did a much better job at relaxing last night, but she needs more experience.

I have Bruno Mars' "_Doo-**** & Hooligans_" album... and while there are some great unreleased tracks on there (I LOVE "_Talking To The Moon_"), I had to think about what song it was he was going to sing. I like that he didn't take us to church this week, but it wasn't a great song choice for me. It's a shame he didn't do the Kelly Clarkson song solo...

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Guess we'll just have to disagree on that...but Randy might agree with you...


Pretty much everyone I know (offline) agrees with me, so it's not just Randy. 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps on his solo...yes...but I was referencing the trio specifically...and Joshua did NOT outsing the 2 gals on that gig...not even close. Randy seems on a personal mission with Joshua just like JLO was with her "pet" singer kicked off last week.


Actually, I thought both Jessica and Hollie were better on their solos than Joshua during his, but during the trio, Hollie and Jessica were like back-up singers... and I don't feel they needed to be. Jessica was going toe to toe with Joshua last week, so we know she can do it, and I think Hollie is more than capable, so I don't know what happened last night, but I'm blaming song choice.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Colton doesn't end up in the bottom though...so it would seems others don't share that view.


Are you talking about the voting here or on AI?!

I'm pretty much agreeing with Doug Brott prediction in that Colton is the winner this year. I think he's _extremely_ overhyped, but I suspect it will happen.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bit it is neat to see different perspectives from various viewers each week of course. I enjoy your feedback as just much as anyone else's...I am wondering about the judge's judgment some weeks though.


I certainly don't agree with them many weeks, and I thought they were WAY off with Hollie last night.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

For what it's worth, I don't want to see anybody go home so I voted (phone) last night for those who I'd be disappointed if they went home:


*Jessica*
*Joshua*
*Phillip*
*Elise*

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> Pretty much everyone I know (offline) agrees with me, so it's not just Randy.


I guess I get out more... and hear the opposite view on Joshua. :lol:



> Are you talking about the voting here or on AI?!


AI - Colton has been at or near the top for many weeks now.

There seem to be 2 camps in terms of how people vote...those who judge by performance...and those who judge the singing. In a few cases, there are people who do well with both...but a number of the remaining 7 fail on one side or the other.

What I find most interesting is that just a couple of weeks ago...all 3 judges stressed about how this was a singing content and pitchy voices were a major problem. Now all we seem to hear about is the showmanship or what outfit someone is wearing, and less about singing skill.

Bring back Simon for a week - he'll get these judges squared away and back to reality.


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## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> For what it's worth, I don't want to see anybody go home so I voted (phone) last night for those who I'd be disappointed if they went home:
> 
> 
> *Jessica*
> *Joshua*
> *Phillip*
> *Elise*


I've given up on Phillip. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I like everything about him but his song choices and he's done nothing to change that opinion... so far. I'm still hopeful someone else will pick his songs from here on out.

Colton, OTOH, moved up a notch in my estimation last night (as did Elise, 2 of the last 3 weeks). So my top four ATM would be same as yours, except Colton instead of Phillip.

Colton reminded me a lot of David Cook last night. For the first time this season, I saw the potential for him to win it all.

I'm not worried about Joshua. Even if he gets voted off tonite, he's going to have a great career ahead of him, IMHO.

I'm less sure about Jessica, however. I like her a lot, but I don't think she's as good as Charice, e.g., and I haven't heard boo about her since her last _Glee _guest appearance a year or two ago.

Actually Charice may be doing well and I'm just not aware of it, because I don't follow careers that closely, with one notable exception. I'm rooting for Adele to end it with her current beau so she can write some more great break-up songs for a new album. How selfish am I?


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## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I guess I get out more... and hear the opposite view on Joshua. :lol:


I have no doubt you get out more, and you most likely talk to a younger crowd as well. That doesn't stop me from disagreeing...

Interestingly enough... I USED to hear the opposite view on Joshua as well. I think earlier this week was the first time I heard several people (including one individual who has been watching AI, and I didn't know it) say they actually like him.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> AI - Colton has been at or near the top for many weeks now.


If you're referring to votes... absolutely! He's got the teeny-bopper vote as well as people who like him for his beliefs.

Performance wise... most people I've spoken to feel he's middle-of-the-pack at best.

It's really strange too about the teeny-bopper vote. I've heard MANY women and young girls GUSH about Phillip's looks, but I have not heard a SINGLE one say anything about Colton. Geographical differences maybe?!



hdtvfan0001 said:


> There seem to be 2 camps in terms of how people vote...those who judge by performance...and those who judge the singing. In a few cases, there are people who do well with both...but a number of the remaining 7 fail on one side or the other.


I vote in a rather complex way. First, I look at the contestants:

VOCAL ABILITY: Jessica/Joshua/Hollie/Skylar/Elise
CONSISTENCY: Jessica/Elise/Phillip
WEAKNESSES: Joshua ("Squealing")/Jessica ("Uptempo")/Skylar ("nasally")/Phillip ("growlly", "lack of change-up")
MARKETABILITY: Colton/Skylar/............................................Phillip

I then add money making abilities, personal preferences, etc. into the list.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> What I find most interesting is that just a couple of weeks ago...all 3 judges stressed about how this was a singing content and pitchy voices were a major problem. Now all we seem to hear about is the showmanship or what outfit someone is wearing, and less about singing skill.


If you've got nothing nice to say... compliment their showmanship and outfit. 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bring back Simon for a week - he'll get these judges squared away and back to reality.


You'd think so.... but I thought he was off several times on The X-Factor... though in fairness to him, I think he was taking the competition part of that show too far in my opinion. Thankfully, he didn't take it as far as some of the other judges...

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> I've given up on Phillip. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I like everything about him but his song choices and he's done nothing to change that opinion... so far. I'm still hopeful someone else will pick his songs from here on out.


Phillip has never had a "moment" on the show, IMO. That's bad because I think he's probably the only person left to never have had one. 

I have no issue with his song choices, but I think he needs to change it up. I think he's done great with his duets with Elise. I think he needs to challenge himself more.



Steve said:


> Colton, OTOH, moved up a notch in my estimation last night (as did Elise, 2 of the last 3 weeks). So my top four ATM would be same as yours, except Colton instead of Phillip.


Colton has had three performances this year where I truly enjoyed him.... one of which was prior to the live shows. I think he had a performance or two last year, but overall, he bores me to tears. A lot of potential, but several great performances do not make up for the others that make me want to go to sleep. 

Elise has had two bad performances during the live shows. The rest of her performances (including her two duets) have been among my favorites those particular weeks. She's definitely a favorite of mine. 

Strangely enough, that woman who I mentioned in my last post (the one who I was not aware watched AI) said there was one contestant she didn't like who seemed to yell. She seemed to think it might have been Elise. :eek2:



Steve said:


> Colton reminded me a lot of David Cook last night. For the first time this season, I saw the potential for him to win it all.


I was not (nor am) the biggest David Cook fan, but David Cook did AMAZING on AI. I'm sitting here listening to him sing "The Music Of The Night" in my head from simply thinking about it.

I think Colton has the potential to be as good or better, but I don't think he's shown it on the AI stage like David Cook did. That may be a good thing, as I personally don't think DC has lived up to the potential he's showed on the show. 



Steve said:


> I'm not worried about Joshua. Even if he gets voted off tonite, he's going to have a great career ahead of him, IMHO.


I wouldn't be surprised. I just think the show should be fair...



Steve said:


> I'm less sure about Jessica, however. I like her a lot, but I don't think she's as good as Charice, e.g., and I haven't heard boo about her since her last _Glee _guest appearance a year or two ago.
> 
> Actually Charice may be doing well and I'm just not aware of it, because I don't follow careers that closely, with one notable exception. I'm rooting for Adele to end it with her current beau so she can write some more great break-up songs for a new album. How selfish am I?


Good comparison on Charice by the way...

I don't disagree.... Jessica, Joshua, and to a lesser extent, Elise, would be the hardest contestants left to market.

I'm a huge Adele fan, so I'll just use a smiley as a statement: 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

I was curious, so I checked:

VOTE FOR THE WORST is recommending Phillip. 

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> Interestingly enough... I USED to hear the opposite view on Joshua as well. I think earlier this week was the first time I heard several people (including one individual who has been watching AI, and I didn't know it) say they actually like him.


There's little doubt he has displayed enough talent to get some kind of deal regardless of the outcome of the final voting. I just suspect he won't be a finalist, despite Randy's strong lobbying for that to happen.


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## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There's little doubt he has displayed enough talent to get some kind of deal regardless of the outcome of the final voting. I just suspect he won't be a finalist, despite Randy's strong lobbying for that to happen.


I don't really expect him to either...

Jacob made it to the top 5 last year, and though their styles are similar, Joshua is infinitely more talented, so I give him a possibility of making the Top 4, but I don't really see him going further. 

DialIdol.com is predicting Joshua, Phillip, and Skylar being safe tonight, with everybody else being in potential danger. Of the four left, I think everybody stands a chance of getting the save with the exception of Hollie. It was obvious they wouldn't have saved Elise last week, but they might this week.

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> I don't really expect him to either...
> 
> Jacob made it to the top 5 last year, and though their styles are similar, Joshua is infinitely more talented, so I give him a possibility of making the Top 4, but I don't really see him going further.
> 
> DialIdol.com is predicting Joshua, Phillip, and Skylar being safe tonight, with everybody else being in potential danger. Of the four left, I think everybody stands a chance of getting the save with the exception of Hollie. It was obvious they wouldn't have saved Elise last week, but they might this week.
> 
> ~Alan


Yup...that "drama" this week and next comes down to if and when they want to use that 1 save...and of course...we're coming up to the annual "surprise" of a frontrunner getting the boot.


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## Alan Gordon

Ryan Seacrest said:


> there is a result tonight on American Idol that some would say is very shocking!


Not too surprising...

~Alan


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## Steve

Steve said:


> I think this will be a night when everyone gasps at who's in the bottom 3.





Alan Gordon said:


> I'm not sure anybody is safe tonight...





Ryan Seacrest said:


> there is a result tonight on American Idol that some would say is very shocking!





Alan Gordon said:


> Not too surprising...


Agree.

If Ryan is right, prolly means it's not Hollie. To paraphrase Elaine Benes, is everyone else "save-worthy"? :scratchin


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> Agree.
> 
> If Ryan is right, prolly means it's not Hollie. To paraphrase Elaine Benes, is everyone else "save-worthy"? :scratchin


Yeah... I think Hollie was saved via backlash from the judges' comments. I started wondering (AFTER I posted my initial thoughts last night) if that would happen...

I think they made it clear that Elise would not have been saved last week. Tonight, I give her 50/50. I'd say ditto for Skylar. After their comments last night, I'd say the same for Phillip.

Colton, Jessica, & Joshua are in the 100% territory in my mind...

~Alan


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## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> I think they made it clear that Elise would not have been saved last week. Tonight, I give her 50/50. I'd say ditto for Skylar. After their comments last night, I'd say the same for Phillip.
> 
> Colton, Jessica, & Joshua are in the 100% territory in my mind...


I was thinking next to Hollie, Skylar might be least worthy of saving, but she did a nice rendition of _Wind Beneath My Wings_ last week, and, perhaps more importantly, she's the only country singer left. Losing her might lose a good chunk of the viewing audience and cost them ad $$$'s. Ya, I know it _shouldn't_ matter...


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## hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...that "drama" this week and next comes down to if and when they want to use that 1 save...and of course...we're coming up to the annual "surprise" of a frontrunner getting the boot.





Steve said:


> To paraphrase Elaine Benes, is everyone else "save-worthy"? :scratchin


I suspect we'll lose Joshua or Phillip tonight...and the save will not be used.

Then again...anyone else's wild guess could be true too.


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> I was thinking next to Hollie, Skylar might be least worthy of saving, but she did a nice rendition of _Wind Beneath My Wings_ last week, and, perhaps more importantly, she's the only country singer left. Losing her might lose a good chunk of the viewing audience and cost them ad $$$'s. Ya, I know it _shouldn't_ matter...


The performance of WBMW was a mixed reaction for me. She started it off with her usual nasal voice, but then nailed it on the second half. It was an awesome performance for her, but I don't like listening to her when she's so nasal... which is usually 50% of the song in her performance. 

I wouldn't save her personally, and that's no disrespect to her as I think she will have success in the industry.

However, for the reasons you mentioned, I give her a 50/50 shot at being saved.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect we'll lose Joshua or Phillip tonight...and the save will not be used.
> 
> Then again...anyone else's wild guess could be true too.


I wouldn't be surprised to see either one at the bottom, but I'll eat my cap if Joshua is not saved...

BTW... does anyone know how accurate DialIdol is at Top 7 results?! According to them, Joshua and Phillip are the top two with Skylar in third place, and everyone else in danger.

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see either one at the bottom, but I'll eat my cap if Joshua is not saved...


Looks like Joshua isn't as great as some think...but he survived.

Not surprised to see Jessica at the bottom....a great voice though...


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looks like Joshua isn't as great as some think...but he survived.


Greatness has nothing to do with the voting process...

The quote you quoted also had to do with the judges' save. He would have been saved...



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not surprised to see Jessica at the bottom....a great voice though...


Nope... the voting on this show is definitely insane.

DialIdol was only somewhat accurate:

They had Phillip, Skylar, and Joshua safe... 1 wrong.
They had Elise, Colton, Jessica, and Hollie in the too close to call territory with Elise and Colton at the bottom.

I knew which group was the bottom from the start tonight. 

~Alan


----------



## Doug Brott

Congratulations on picking the bottom four. 



Alan Gordon said:


> For what it's worth, I don't want to see anybody go home so I voted (phone) last night for those who I'd be disappointed if they went home:
> 
> 
> *Jessica*
> *Joshua*
> *Phillip*
> *Elise*
> 
> ~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Doug Brott said:


> Congratulations on picking the bottom four.


Bottom Four? 

:lol:

Yeah... I was thinking about how I voted for the bottom three whenever I saw the two groups.

I think there's been several times where I've given votes to two of the Bottom Three, but I think this might be the first time I've given votes to all three. 

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

What became clear last night is that the judges ranted and raved and then used their only "save" for the season in order to save face as they seemed to be totally out of sync with the voting public results.

Next week will be the defining moment of the season with 2 people eliminated. If the voting remains the same...the judges will really have egg on their faces. Randy, in particular, seems to have his own agenda for his picks.

The good news is that a number of these young singers will get contracts most likely, and benefit from the experience - all of which is a good thing.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The good news is that a number of these young singers will get contracts most likely, and benefit from the experience - all of which is a good thing.


Exactly. Some of the people who didn't win are doing better than those that did.


----------



## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> I think there's been several times where I've given votes to two of the Bottom Three, but I think this might be the first time I've given votes to all three


Just my .02, and I'm a big fan of hers, but I thought Jessica was squeaking out her save song so poorly last night, JLo had no choice but to run on stage to stop the bleeding. Had she been allowed to continue that "DeAndre" imitation (IMO), it might have been much harder for the judges to justify the save. I actually cringed when Ryan asked Jessica to "sing us out!"

Song choice will be more important than ever next week. If Jessica picks the wrong song, she could be last in next week's voting too.

The result added context to Ryan's question to Randy earlier in the night. When they were showing the clip of Jessica skatting the night before, and Ryan asked Randy something like, "After watching Jessica's performance again, do you still feel the same way about it tonight?".


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TheRatPatrol said:


> Exactly. Some of the people who didn't win are doing better than those that did.


As we all know...that has happened before.

Some past AI "winners" have been record-selling flops, while others have done exteremely well. The same could be said for folks in the top 3 in the past...so there are actually multiple winners the way this "contest" rolls out.

I would not be surprised to see 4-5 people from this year's crop of top 10 getting some kind of record deal.

The only thing that seems disturbing is when Randy or JLO have agendas to "promote" their personal favorites week in and week out, despite not necessarily being the top talent. The show seems to be evolving in some ways from a singing talent and popularity contest to only a popularity contest.


----------



## BubblePuppy

Both Missy and I agreed that last nights save was scripted and the reported results were false. This was done to create drama. Ryan Seacrest even tweeted “there is a result tonight on @AmericanIdol that some would say is very shocking”. 
Jessica's very feeble, half hearted and squeaking attempt to perform her save was the cue for J-LO to run up on stage and do her emoting. Even Steve T. announced that the save card will be used before the loser was announced. 
This was all planned.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> Both Missy and I agreed that last nights save was scripted and the reported results were false. This was done to create drama. Ryan Seacrest even tweeted "there is a result tonight on @AmericanIdol that some would say is very shocking".
> Jessica's very feeble, half hearted and squeaking attempt to perform her save was the cue for J-LO to run up on stage and do her emoting. Even Steve T. announced that the save card will be used before the loser was announced.
> This was all planned.


That would not be entirely surprising, as the "shocker" elimination shows have happened in the past.


----------



## Drew2k

I watched the performance show and result show back to back so I'm late to the discussion, but I though Colton and Elise were the winners on performance night, thought Hollie was great, and agree that Jessica was not up to her own standards.

I was really surprised that Elise, Jessica, and Joshua were in the bottom three on the results show, and perhaps Jessica and Joshua being in the B3 was what Ryan alluded to in his tweet? I'm positive Jessica was never in the B3 before, but I'm not sure about Joshua.

When the final result came and it was Jessica, I was even MORE surprised, but I guess this is probably due to complacency by the voters: Jessica is praised so much, everyone probably thinks she's safe, so no one votes for her because they think everyone else is voting for her.

I was definitely NOT surprised that the save was used. I expected it to be used as soon as Joshua, Elise and Jessica were named the B3. I could also see the save being used for Colton and Phillip, but I'm not sure if the judges would have used it for Skylar, and for sure they would not have used it for Hollie.

This means next week two performers go home, right? So it will be a critical performance night next week, dropping from seven to the top five in one night...


----------



## BubblePuppy

I wasn't surprised that the save was used, I think this was the last show it could be used. Use it or lose it. Another reason I believe this was a setup. Even if it wasn't, no matter who lost, the save would have been used.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> I wasn't surprised that the save was used, I think this was the last show it could be used. Use it or lose it. Another reason I believe this was a setup. Even if it wasn't, no matter who lost, the save would have been used.


Next week is the last week...but that really is not a big point.

With this group of judges...showing their views on their own "pet" favorites repeatedly...the save *was* very likely going to get used this week or next.


----------



## Steve

BubblePuppy said:


> Another reason I believe this was a setup. Even if it wasn't, no matter who lost, the save would have been used.


I don't think it would have been used for Hollie. Steven made that pretty clear with his comments after her performance Wednesday night. I didn't agree with what he had to say, but if he really felt that way, no way he was going to save her, IMO. I also thought Phillip's and Skylar's chances at being saved may have been 50/50.

*EDITED TO ADD:* Now that I think about it, ironically, Steven may have saved Hollie for another week _because _of his comments Wednesday night. She got the sympathy vote. 

I was also surprised Jimmy was so tough on Hollie's performance last night. I didn't expect him to pile on like that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> I don't think it would have been used for Hollie. Steven made that pretty clear with his comments after her performance Wednesday night. I didn't agree with what he had to say, but if he really felt that way, no way he was going to save her, IMO. I also thought Phillip's and Skylar's chances at being saved may have been 50/50.
> 
> *EDITED TO ADD:* Now that I think about it, ironically, Steven may have saved Hollie for another week _because _of his comments Wednesday night. She got the sympathy vote.
> 
> I was also surprised Jimmy was so tough on Hollie's performance last night. I didn't expect him to pile on like that.


Totally agree with all your observations in this post Steve.


----------



## Doug Brott

I haven't looked anywhere to get info, but I suspect next week is a single elimination as the "double" will be Jermaine who got booted earlier in the season. Could be wrong I guess, but I don't think Fox/AI want to give up 3 hours of ad time during sweeps


----------



## Doug Brott

Steve said:


> I was also surprised Jimmy was so tough on Hollie's performance last night. I didn't expect him to pile on like that.


I got the sense that Jimmy was saying he thought he could "fix" her .. meaning singing is not the problem, it's the other performance stuff.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> I got the sense that Jimmy was saying he thought he could "fix" her .. meaning singing is not the problem, it's the other performance stuff.


I agree he wasn't criticizing her singing. I just didn't think she deserved as much performance criticism as she got, especially given how much undue (IMO) performance praise Jessica got after Wednesday night's performance. I thought Hollie was much more "natural" this week than last. I guess Jimmy and Steven felt otherwise.


----------



## Steve

All this talk about Jessica reminded me of Alison Iraheta, another 16-17 year old from season 8. I went back and listened to a couple of her performances, and I like her better than Jessica. She made it to the final 4, IIRC.






Her duet with Adam Lambert is still my favorite Idol duet to date. I've only been watching since season 5, however.


----------



## sigma1914

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...
> With this group of judges...showing their views on their own "pet" favorites repeatedly...the save *was* very likely going to get used this week or next.


You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.


----------



## Doug Brott

Absolutely .. There is always an agenda with these Judges. It's just part of the show.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

sigma1914 said:


> You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.


Quite true.

It's just more blatent, obvious, and intrusive this year.


----------



## Henry

And *that* was a _"Pia Moment",_ folks. The only surprise was that it came while the SAVE was still unused. There is no telling how many more we'll see.

Now that they have forced the judges hands, I suspect we'll see teenyboppers voting with their groins and not their heads until the end of the season.


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What became clear last night is that the judges ranted and raved and then used their only "save" for the season in order to save face as they seemed to be totally out of sync with the voting public results.


The "save" was created so that when America either becomes complacent, or gets one wrong, the judges can save them. Daughtry was the reason the "save" was created, and the judges used the save on some people who simply didn't deserve it, but I think the judges (well, at least Randy and Steven considering Jennifer wanted to use it on Heejun and DeAndre) learned their lesson.



Steve said:


> Just my .02, and I'm a big fan of hers, but I thought Jessica was squeaking out her save song so poorly last night, JLo had no choice but to run on stage to stop the bleeding. Had she been allowed to continue that "DeAndre" imitation (IMO), it might have been much harder for the judges to justify the save. I actually cringed when Ryan asked Jessica to "sing us out!"
> 
> Song choice will be more important than ever next week. If Jessica picks the wrong song, she could be last in next week's voting too.


Some people do well with their "save me" song, others let their emotions and nerves get to them. I didn't think it was bad per se, but it was a poor job for her. I disagree that the judges saved her to keep her from singing. I think it was simply a case where there was no need to continue to put her through the emotional wringer when they would have been complete *fools* to let her leave.

Most likely... she'll be safe next week regardless of her song choice. Last night will rally her fan base.

Will Hollie go home next, or will it be Skylar, Elise, or Joshua?! 



Steve said:


> The result added context to Ryan's question to Randy earlier in the night. When they were showing the clip of Jessica skatting the night before, and Ryan asked Randy something like, "After watching Jessica's performance again, do you still feel the same way about it tonight?".


There's usually hints in advance... but without the knowledge beforehand, it can be difficult to discern what's real, or what's a fake-out.

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The show seems to be evolving in some ways from a singing talent and popularity contest to only a popularity contest.


As evidenced by Jessica, Joshua, and Elise being in the Bottom Three last night... 



BubblePuppy said:


> Both Missy and I agreed that last nights save was scripted and the reported results were false. This was done to create drama. Ryan Seacrest even tweeted "there is a result tonight on @AmericanIdol that some would say is very shocking".
> Jessica's very feeble, half hearted and squeaking attempt to perform her save was the cue for J-LO to run up on stage and do her emoting. Even Steve T. announced that the save card will be used before the loser was announced.
> This was all planned.


I gave Jessica and Joshua 100% chance of being saved if they were in the Bottom Three, and Elise 50%/50%. Steven Tyler later said that when he saw the Bottom Three, he knew they'd be using the save regardless of which one it was.

Yeah, Ryan said there would be shocking results the day of Pia's elimination last year as well.

Nigel stated that the voting on Wednesday night was interesting after stating he felt the judges were too hard on Hollie.

I strongly disagree that it was staged/planned. It's been obvious for several years now... particularly last year when Howdy Doodie won.

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> The "save" was created so that when America either becomes complacent, or gets one wrong, the judges can save them. Daughtry was the reason the "save" was created, and the judges used the save on some people who simply didn't deserve it, but I think the judges (well, at least Randy and Steven considering Jennifer wanted to use it on Heejun and DeAndre) learned their lesson.


I suspect you are 98% right on target with that all Alan.

Both how Pia *and* Daughtry were prematurely ousted likely contributed to where things are today. I commend the producers to come up with that solution.

It's the actual choice made by the judges that people will debate. I suspect it's much tougher this year where a clear-cut favorite (or even two) have not yet emerged this late in the competition among a longer list of talented final 7 than in the past.

There are times it is easy to forget we have a number of sub 18 year olds and other very young competitors on this list - alot of talent in this group.


----------



## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> There's usually hints in advance... but without the knowledge beforehand, it can be difficult to discern what's real, or what's a fake-out.


I'm pretty sure Ryan knows the exact results beforehand, so he and the director can script/orchestrate/rehearse the "building the bottom three" parts of the show.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Drew2k said:


> I was really surprised that Elise, Jessica, and Joshua were in the bottom three on the results show, and perhaps Jessica and Joshua being in the B3 was what Ryan alluded to in his tweet? I'm positive Jessica was never in the B3 before, but I'm not sure about Joshua.


I told my Uncle recently that Joshua had never been in the bottom three, which was technically correct, but I was partially wrong. During the Top 13 week's result show, they did a Bottom Six (guys and gals).

*Top 13 Week:* Jeremy, Elise, Jermaine, Erika, Shannon, and Joshua
*Top 11 Week:* Shannon, Erika, and Elise
*Top 10 Week:* Erika, DeAndre, and Heejun
*Top 9 Week:* Heejun, Hollie, and Skylar
*Top 8 Week:* DeAndre, Elise, and Hollie
*Top 7 Week:* Jessica, Joshua, and Elise



Drew2k said:


> When the final result came and it was Jessica, I was even MORE surprised, but I guess this is probably due to complacency by the voters: Jessica is praised so much, everyone probably thinks she's safe, so no one votes for her because they think everyone else is voting for her.


I think a LOT of people were probably voting for Hollie...



Drew2k said:


> This means next week two performers go home, right? So it will be a critical performance night next week, dropping from seven to the top five in one night...


I did the math... one goes home next week.

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> I don't think it would have been used for Hollie. Steven made that pretty clear with his comments after her performance Wednesday night. I didn't agree with what he had to say, but if he really felt that way, no way he was going to save her, IMO. I also thought Phillip's and Skylar's chances at being saved may have been 50/50.
> 
> *EDITED TO ADD:* Now that I think about it, ironically, Steven may have saved Hollie for another week _because _of his comments Wednesday night. She got the sympathy vote.
> 
> I was also surprised Jimmy was so tough on Hollie's performance last night. I didn't expect him to pile on like that.





Doug Brott said:


> I got the sense that Jimmy was saying he thought he could "fix" her .. meaning singing is not the problem, it's the other performance stuff.





Steve said:


> I agree he wasn't criticizing her singing. I just didn't think she deserved as much performance criticism as she got, especially given how much undue (IMO) performance praise Jessica got after Wednesday night's performance. I thought Hollie was much more "natural" this week than last. I guess Jimmy and Steven felt otherwise.


Yeah, he's called the judges out before, I expected him to do it again.

Everything I've read has shown people thought they were too harsh on her performance... even Nigel Lythgoe said so, so I expected Jimmy to say something. Apparently not...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> All this talk about Jessica reminded me of Alison Iraheta, another 16-17 year old from season 8. I went back and listened to a couple of her performances, and I like her better than Jessica. She made it to the final 4, IIRC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her duet with Adam Lambert is still my favorite Idol duet to date. I've only been watching since season 5, however.


They're completely different in my mind, so I can't say I like her any better than Jessica. Did she only do one duet with Adam? If so, I purchased it on iTunes.

Speaking of Allison, her album is pretty good... I own it. It's got multiple songs on it I like, but there's one I *LOVE* called "Scars." Give it a listen... 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> sigma1914 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep mentioning pets, favorites & agendas. This happens every season and is nothing new. Simon was the worst offender of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite true.
> 
> It's just more blatent, obvious, and intrusive this year.
Click to expand...

Is it... or is it that you just disagree with it more this year?! 

People I know have been turned off by the judges' being asked after the performances who were the best of the night, and who was in trouble. I was extremely glad when the refused on Wednesday night.

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Henry said:


> And *that* was a _"Pia Moment",_ folks. The only surprise was that it came while the SAVE was still unused. There is no telling how many more we'll see.
> 
> Now that they have forced the judges hands, I suspect we'll see teenyboppers voting with their groins and not their heads until the end of the season.


I cannot disagree...

I'm thankful at least that as long as Phillip is on, it will still be interesting to me at least. 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect you are 98% right on target with that all Alan.
> 
> Both how Pia *and* Daughtry were prematurely ousted likely contributed to where things are today. I commend the producers to come up with that solution.
> 
> It's the actual choice made by the judges that people will debate. I suspect it's much tougher this year where a clear-cut favorite (or even two) have not yet emerged this late in the competition among a longer list of talented final 7 than in the past.
> 
> There are times it is easy to forget we have a number of sub 18 year olds and other very young competitors on this list - alot of talent in this group.


I think anybody looking at it objectively will not debate their choice.

As for a clear-cut favorite (or even two)? Phillip is a WGWG, and Colton is a WGWP.

Just sayin'.... 



Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure Ryan knows the exact results beforehand, so he and the director can script/orchestrate/rehearse the "building the bottom three" parts of the show.


Absolutely. As I've said multiple times, Nigel was even commenting on the voting being interesting on Wednesday night. I was referring to us watching at home.

It was pretty obvious to me that whenever they put Hollie and Jessica on two different sides, that Jessica was probably in the Bottom Three. I had my suspicions prior to that, but that was the clincher for me.

Here's a little tidbit though. There have been years in the past where the person who goes home, would be heavily featured in the Ford Music Video that week. Unless it was edited the day of the result show, it may have been coincidence, but it was that way a LOT... so you'd usually get a heads-up. Last night when Elise was the dragon lady, I had to wonder... LOL!! I brushed it off though because that hasn't been the case lately...

~Alan


----------



## Maruuk

It's important to remember that the judges hear the performances very differently than we do at home, the acoustics of the hall, the mob screaming behind them, the PA sound bouncing around, all these major factors can really change your opinion of a given performance. Thus Randy revising his thoughts on hearing Jessica at home. In the hall it's all excitement and echoes and weird mixes. At home it's clean and relatively naked, and you can totally hear when pitch is off. They can't fake their way though the TV audio. That's why the judges mis-judge pitch a lot live. They often call a singer out on pitch when at home you can hear it's fine. TV audio does not lie.

It's kind of ridiculous at this point: Jessica is 1,000% better than anybody else--Jimmy basically says it, the judges basically just said it during the save, there literally is no contest anymore.

But. Jessica does not sing anything a kid would want to listen to. She sings diva songs and mature R&B stuff, she sings like a polished 40-year old. Not hip at all. Adult music. What 14-23 year old would buy her records? Nobody. She's in that whole Whitney-Celine-Blige bag and truly kills it, but she's way out of her own demo, and that's a problem for a 16 year old.

Add to the confusion those at home voting on looks, age, gender, whatever. The home voters have proven themselves to be seriously flaky vis a vis being able to reward true talent over charisma and sex appeal.

Though I wouldn't mind if the voters would just do their job and cut through all the judges' crapola and simply vote for a true idol: someone beautiful, sexy and cool who can sing relevant, contemporary, ORIGINAL pop-rock with a 14-23 year old demo appeal. THAT is what American Idol is supposed to be about, but rarely is. It's more of an AOR Glee-fest.

And we hear there is this mass of hysterical 12 year old girls who do most of the voting. I wouldn't doubt it based on some of the bottom three groupings.

Gotta love Jimmy's Phillip analysis echoing what I've been saying from the very beginning: Phillip clones Dave Mathews. More to the point, he literally APES him. Style, voice, even looks somewhat. Even wardrobe. DM always wears those junky clothes on stage, hence Phillip's predilection for grunge duds. I mean, if you want DM, buy his music. Who needs a second DM? I can't even stand ONE DM, never mind two.

Skylar is just another in a long line of spitkicker trailer trash ugly Gretchen Wilson ******* Woman clones. Idol cranks these out like a string of fat sausages, pandering to the evangelical gun-toting bible-thumpers. It's truly pathetic and demeaning to music in general.

Holly seems not to be getting a square deal. Weird criticisms from the judges over pitch. That's baloney, no pitch problems there. She's better than they give her credit for, they're doing a bag job on her. She was a little physically stiff in her last performance, but so was Joshua almost grotesquely, let's just call it, "stylizing". 

An almost satirical stereotyping of a mincing, flouncing gay man. But the judges just ate it up. Now Joshua is an attractive, talented and exciting performer. But his stage act as realized on Idol is only appropriate for a gay club. Which is fine, no problem, that's beautiful. More power to him. But why are the judges completely ignoring that 800 lb. gorilla in the room? They're quick to savage anyone for stylizing with Broadway musical stage mannerisms as inappropriate for the show. So a performer's mannerisms are fair game. And Joshua's mannerisms are overt and extreme. I guess political correctness rules over sanity with the judges.

Now you might say Adam Lambert made that work. I'd say no, we're not talking at all about being gay per se, that's irrelevant. We're talking about only a performer's mannerisms on stage, what they communicate through body language. Adam didn't mince, flounce, skip or diva it up. He simply kicked ass every time out. He was obviously gay, but wasn't awkwardly trying to emulate or impersonate female mannerisms in his act. Two entirely different presentations. And sexual preference independent.

Colton's great, an all-too-rare actual POP-ROCK performer in the making on the show. As opposed to country-pop pap. He's top 3 for sure.

Elise, she's a band singer. A pretty good one. There are Elises all over America at Six Flags and in bars and at country fairs. She has neither the looks nor the voice nor the uniqueness to ever sell a single recording. There's just nothing special about her at this level. She's getting votes at this point on sheer likeability which is ok. But an Idol? Please.

Jessica obviously deserves it. But can she survive singing middle-aged lady material at age 16? And like they said of Obama, is America ready for an Asian American Idol? I hope so, because she's a freaking Phenomenon. And everybody knows it.


----------



## Steve

Maruuk said:


> Jessica does not sing anything a kid would want to listen to. She sings diva songs and mature R&B stuff, she sings like a polished 40-year old. Not hip at all. Adult music. What 14-23 year old would buy her records? Nobody. She's in that whole Whitney-Celine-Blige bag and truly kills it, but she's way out of her own demo, and that's a problem for a 16 year old.


Same problem Charice had, I guess. I do think Charice was/is more polished than Jessica, but then again, I never listened to Charice "singing for her life" in a competition.


----------



## Drew2k

It really would be great to hear Jessica tackle something modern from an artist her age, like Selena Gomez' "Love You Like A Love Song".

It's never really explained on the show, but my understanding is that it takes a lot to get clearances for song rights, so when the contestants have to deal with deadlines to pick a song, get those rights and work out the arrangements, I'm sure they can't always pick the songs they'd like...


----------



## Alan Gordon

Inspired partly by Wednesday's vote no doubt, the contestants will be singing two songs next week.

I still haven't read a theme...

~Alan


----------



## Henry

Drew2k said:


> [...] It's never really explained on the show, but my understanding is that it takes a lot to get clearances for song rights, so when the contestants have to deal with deadlines to pick a song, get those rights and work out the arrangements, I'm sure they can't always pick the songs they'd like...


Agree. I heard/read/saw somewhere (so take this with a grain...) that the kids pick songs from lists that AI provides, but if he/she wants a song not on the lists, they have to wait for Fox or Freemantle/19 Entertainment to get it cleared (not sure who).


----------



## Maruuk

It was so refreshing when they finally offered a repertoire of songs to the performers from the last 2 years. Contemporary (last 2-3 years) pop/rock/R&B/hip-hop/Alt-Rock is seriously under-represented. Country pop of all periods is hideously OVER-represented.

How awesome would it be to hear Jessica sing a Shawn Colvin or a KT Dunstall or even a zillion times better, a St. Vincent tune?? She desperately needs to break out of her safe little middle-aged diva cocoon and prove her bones in the Alt-pop arena. And I think she could kill in that zone!


----------



## Doug Brott

Henry said:


> Agree. I heard/read/saw somewhere (so take this with a grain...) that the kids pick songs from lists that AI provides, but if he/she wants a song not on the lists, they have to wait for Fox or Freemantle/19 Entertainment to get it cleared (not sure who).


I think it's doubly-hard sometimes because I'm pretty certain that AI basically asks if it's OK to use the song but won't pay any money for it (assumes exposure is worth enough). Not all artists will allow their work to be presented on AI. It's probably easier for some songs than it is for others.

I suspect James' _Uprising_ from last year fell into the "Heck Yeah!" category for Muse with regard to getting it cleared. AI is still a great way to get exposure.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

In the end...I must admit that while I disagree with the judging at times....this is quite the talented group this year. 

As others have noted, in some cases, song selection has simply done-in certain contestants one week or another.

It would not be surprising at all to learn afterwards...that this year's group has a larger number of contracted artists than in past years.

Talent abounds.


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## Alan Gordon

Maruuk said:


> How awesome would it be to hear Jessica sing a Shawn Colvin or a KT Dunstall or even a zillion times better, a St. Vincent tune?? She desperately needs to break out of her safe little middle-aged diva cocoon and prove her bones in the Alt-pop arena. And I think she could kill in that zone!


I know better than to reply to a post from you, but I just have to this time.

I haven't heard anything new from KT in years, nor Shawn Colvin since the song that was used as the theme song to "Suddenly Susan." I don't even know who St. Vincent is...

Shawn Colvin is 56 and is a completely different style than Jessica. Jazmine Sullivan is 25, and sings the style of music that Jessica says she wants to perform.

I'm sorry... but as usual, I strongly disagree. 

~Alan


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## Henry

Alan Gordon said:


> I know better than to reply to a post from you, but I just have to this time.
> 
> I haven't heard anything new from KT in years, nor Shawn Colvin since the song that was used as the theme song to "Suddenly Susan." I don't even know who St. Vincent is...
> 
> Shawn Colvin is 56 and is a completely different style than Jessica. Jazmine Sullivan is 25, and sings the style of music that Jessica says she wants to perform.
> 
> I'm sorry... but as usual, I strongly disagree.
> 
> ~Alan


You may not care for _Maruuk's_ post, but you have to agree they are thought-provoking. There is no gray in what _Maruuk_ thinks... just pure black and white. I respect that, and I tend to log it in under "personal opinion" when I disagree. 

p.s. KT sounds great on _"Suddenly I see"._ I love _Shawn's_ rendition of _Gnarls "Crazy". _ _St. Vincent's "Paris is Burning"_ should be a nice introduction for you.


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## Alan Gordon

I'll just comment on this part of your post:



Henry said:


> p.s. KT sounds great on _"Suddenly I see"._ I love _Shawn's_ rendition of _Gnarls "Crazy". _ _St. Vincent's "Paris is Burning"_ should be a nice introduction for you.


I have KT's "Eye to the Telescope" album, and I'm a fan. However, she's mid-30s and hasn't had a hit in years. Maruuk stated the following earlier:



Maruuk said:


> But. Jessica does not sing anything a kid would want to listen to. She sings diva songs and mature R&B stuff, she sings like a polished 40-year old. Not hip at all. Adult music. What 14-23 year old would buy her records? Nobody. She's in that whole Whitney-Celine-Blige bag and truly kills it, but she's way out of her own demo, and that's a problem for a 16 year old.


When Katharine McPhee sang "Black Horse And A Cherry Tree," it was current. There's nothing wrong with making an older song sound fresh in my opinion, but Maruuk's statements earlier made it sound like he wouldn't agree with that, so...

As I stated, I haven't heard anything new from Shawn in years... "Nothing On You" was the last song I heard from her, so I don't really consider her very contemporary either.

I may have to check out St. Vincent... that song title sounds familiar, so it's possible I may be aware of them, and simply not aware of their name.

~Alan


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## Maruuk

Well it's not just the age of the song or the singer-songwriter, it's the attitude, where it's coming from, hipness, edge, ALT-ness. And Idol singers traditionally trot out such uber-safe, brutally shop-worn evergreens with zero 'tude and zero edge and zero message that it's stultifying.

Yeah, Cherry Tree, which is from KT's 2005 album, was a great example. McPhee killed it. Presentation, 'tude, it came off dead fresh and contemporary. We just need way more boldness and experimentation with not just more current material, but with thoughtful lyric content beyond insipid love songs or country gal man-hating revenge songs involving guns and pickup trucks and beer.

First AI artist brave enough to put their personal vocal stylings to a St. Vincent tune, I grant 'em 1,000 bonus points! I put Annie Clark where the Beatles WOULD have gone musically if they stayed together, stopped dropping acid, and went to Berklee.


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## Alan Gordon

Maruuk said:


> Well it's not just the age of the song, it's the attitude, where it's coming from, hipness, edge, ALT-ness. And Idol singers traditionally trot out such brutally shop-worn evergreens with zero 'tude and zero edge and zero message that it's stultifying.
> 
> Yeah, Cherry Tree, which is from KT's 2005 album, was a great example. McPhee killed it. Presentation, 'tude, it came off dead fresh and contemporary. We just need way more boldness and experimentation with not just more current material, but with thoughtful lyric content beyond insipid love songs or country gal man-hating revenge songs involving guns and pickup trucks and beer.


Thanks for clarifying... now I understand. 

~Alan


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## Maruuk

You know, back in the day, Randy used to call out passionately for exactly this combination of edgier, contempo content and unique, stylized delivery. He's a serious musician and he gets when a performer is phoning it in or taking a risk. Unfortunately it seems the producers have worn him down some and he's now tending to reward performers for fairly wimpy renditions (safely within their comfort zones) of safer stuff.

Remember when rock n' roll was supposed to be dangerous, subversive and kinda-sorta dirty? Last time I remember seeing anything like that on Idol was from Adam Lambert!


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## Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon said:


> Inspired partly by Wednesday's vote no doubt, the contestants will be singing two songs next week.
> 
> I still haven't read a theme...


The theme is _Now & Then_.

One song from 2000-2012, and a "Soul" song from a previous decade.

~Alan


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## Doug Brott

Alan Gordon said:


> The theme is _Now & Then_.
> 
> One song from 2000-2012, and a "Soul" song from a previous decade.
> 
> ~Alan


So in other words they can sing pretty much anything this week ...


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## Alan Gordon

Doug Brott said:


> So in other words they can sing pretty much anything this week ...


As long as one of them is from 2000-2012! 

~Alan


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## Henry

Maruuk said:


> [...] *Remember when rock n' roll was supposed to be dangerous, subversive and kinda-sorta dirty? Last time I remember seeing anything like that on Idol was from Adam Lambert!*




... and watered down at that.


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## Alan Gordon

Henry said:


> Maruuk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *[...] Remember when rock n' roll was supposed to be dangerous, subversive and kinda-sorta dirty? Last time I remember seeing anything like that on Idol was from Adam Lambert!*
> 
> 
> 
> ... and watered down at that.
Click to expand...

"_Sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll... take out the drugs and you've got more time for the other two._" - *Steven Tyler*

I wasn't around for the Elvis and The Rolling Stones days. I do LOVE me some Aerosmith and Alice Cooper though, but I'll be honest... I don't believe Rock HAS to be that... it's just a part of it.

~Alan


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## Henry

Alan Gordon said:


> "_Sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll... take out the drugs and you've got more time for the other two._" - *Steven Tyler*
> 
> *I wasn't around for the Elvis and The Rolling Stones days*. I do LOVE me some Aerosmith and Alice Cooper though, but I'll be honest... I don't believe Rock HAS to be that... it's just a part of it.
> 
> ~Alan


I was.

R&R is not just a style of music. When it started, there was an attitude that came with it. It was as a way of rebelling against adult authority or anything the young found objectionable. It's a lot more than meets the eye and ear.

Today I don't know what it's morphed into. I was never caught up in it. To me, much of it is just noise. I think my attitude today is more mellow and gruppy.

Yes; I have joined the enemy.


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## Alan Gordon

Henry said:


> I was.
> 
> R&R is not just a style of music. When it started, there was an attitude that came with it. It was as a way of rebelling against adult authority or anything the young found objectionable. It's a lot more than meets the eye and ear.
> 
> Today I don't know what it's morphed into. I was never caught up in it. To me, much of it is just noise. I think my attitude today is more mellow and gruppy.
> 
> Yes; I have joined the enemy.


Oh... I knew what it was! I was just stating that I wasn't exactly around for the time when it was what it was rebellious. The same message is sorta still out there, but it's found more in Alternative Rock than Rock.

I was born an old man... :eek2:

~Alan


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## Maruuk

I'm going to mash up two shows now to make point:

In Mad Men recently, a client blithely demands that Sterling-Cooper hire the Rolling Stones to sing a commercial about beans. Think about it. Before the mid-60's, you could probably hire a Pat Boone or a Dusty Springfield or a Chubby Checker or a Lulu or a Pet Clark or even a Dave Clark Five (as close to the time as that) to sing about any product you got. They sang for a living, they did it to make money. There were no conflicting principals at all. Dinah Shore sang for Chevrolet, it was just another income stream.

But suddenly, with bands like the Beatles, the Stones, guys like Dylan, Jimi...anti-establishmentarianism was critical to their brand. They couldn't do commercials. They were rebels, revolutionaries, iconoclasts. They were the new embodiment of the beats that confronted Don in the Village: 

"How do you sleep at night, man?" 

"On a bed of money!"

The Beat influence, first via folk/protest music as heard from Phil Ochs, Ramblin' Jack Eliot, Dylan and others (channeling Woody Guthrie) and then into many bands across the mid 60's and later. The stance was pure counter-cultural. That's what bought their credibility with the kids. Jimi Hendrix couldn't POSSIBLY do a commercial for...anything!

Point being that on Idol now, they force these poor saps to become literally commercial PUPPETS in those moronic Ford ads. The opposite of counter-cultural. Thus the opposite of credibility. It neatly strips any last shreds of cultural dignity they may have left, leaving them perfect soulless and malleable products themselves, which is kind of the point of the show.

When folks step out of line a little, they get slapped down hard. Heejun got lectured to like some little kid. Astro over on X Factor got booted out quick. These shows actually hate individuality and attitude. They want to mold a safe, commercial product.

And the song choices reflect that conservatism very strongly. As has been said, the performers get to choose from a very restricted list. Thus the colorful attitudes and "uniqueness" they can cop is virtually nil. Stripped out by the format.

Thus Idol could never produce a real unique performer with any relevancy. The best they can do is crank out corporate Barbie Doll crooners like Carrie Underwood or corporate hard rock generics like Daughtry or David Cook. Safe as milk. Generic musictainment Lite with zero street cred.

And ironically, with the exception of Daughtry and Underwood, it ends up being so generic and lacking in cred as to not sell well. Lee DeWyze and Crystal Bowersox can't sell for beans. Taylor Hicks, Ruben Studdard, Katharine McPhee (with the exception of acting), Jordin Sparks, Blake Lewis...it's kind of a self-fulfilling failure formula wrapped in what's supposed to be a sure-fire success package. Irony's a *****.


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## Henry

+1


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## Alan Gordon

Maruuk said:


> I'm going to mash up two shows now to make point:
> 
> In Mad Men recently, a client blithely demands that Sterling-Cooper hire the Rolling Stones to sing a commercial about beans. Think about it. Before the mid-60's, you could probably hire a Pat Boone or a Dusty Springfield or a Chubby Checker or a Lulu or a Pet Clark or even a Dave Clark Five (as close to the time as that) to sing about any product you got. They sang for a living, they did it to make money. There were no conflicting principals at all. Dinah Shore sang for Chevrolet, it was just another income stream.
> 
> But suddenly, with bands like the Beatles, the Stones, guys like Dylan, Jimi...anti-establishmentarianism was critical to their brand. They couldn't do commercials. They were rebels, revolutionaries, iconoclasts. They were the new embodiment of the beats that confronted Don in the Village:
> 
> "How do you sleep at night, man?"
> 
> "On a bed of money!"
> 
> The Beat influence, first via folk/protest music as heard from Phil Ochs, Ramblin' Jack Eliot, Dylan and others (channeling Woody Guthrie) and then into many bands across the mid 60's and later. The stance was pure counter-cultural. That's what bought their credibility with the kids. Jimi Hendrix couldn't POSSIBLY do a commercial for...anything!


These people would not have tried out for AI, "The X-Factor", or "The Voice". You shouldn't expect others like them to either...



Maruuk said:


> Point being that on Idol now, they force these poor saps to become literally commercial PUPPETS in those moronic Ford ads. The opposite of counter-cultural. Thus the opposite of credibility. It neatly strips any last shreds of cultural dignity they may have left, leaving them perfect soulless and malleable products themselves, which is kind of the point of the show.
> 
> When folks step out of line a little, they get slapped down hard. Heejun got lectured to like some little kid. Astro over on X Factor got booted out quick. These shows actually hate individuality and attitude. They want to mold a safe, commercial product.


If you have an attitude, you can try to get a deal the hard old-fashioned way, but if you want America (myself included) to vote for you, you NEED to leave your attitude in check.

The Astronomical Kid was good at what he did... I wasn't crazy about it, but it was good. However, I didn't vote for him ONCE... and part of that reason was his attitude.



Maruuk said:


> And the song choices reflect that conservatism very strongly. As has been said, the performers get to choose from a very restricted list. Thus the colorful attitudes and "uniqueness" they can cop is virtually nil. Stripped out by the format.


The point is to show that you can sing anything... regardless of what they throw at you. Some people can only sing one specific style or type of music. Others can do anything...



Maruuk said:


> Thus Idol could never produce a real unique performer with any relevancy. The best they can do is crank out corporate Barbie Doll crooners like Carrie Underwood or corporate hard rock generics like Daughtry or David Cook. Safe as milk. Generic musictainment Lite with zero street cred.


Carrie Underwood along with Kelly Clarkson are my two favorite Idol winners, so I won't comment on this. Daughtry is one of my favorite contestants, so again, I won't comment on this.



Maruuk said:


> And ironically, with the exception of Daughtry and Underwood, it ends up being so generic and lacking in cred as to not sell well. Lee DeWyze and Crystal Bowersox can't sell for beans. Taylor Hicks, Ruben Studdard, Katharine McPhee (with the exception of acting), Jordin Sparks, Blake Lewis...it's kind of a self-fulfilling failure formula wrapped in what's supposed to be a sure-fire success package. Irony's a *****.


Jordin Sparks (my third favorite winner BTW), actually had a huge hit with "No Air"... and she had some songs that didn't do as well, but I still hear on the radio from time to time. I won't argue with the rest... LOL!!

It's obvious we don't agree much with Idol, and though I understand your point, I think you're expecting too much.

~Alan


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## Henry

Astro was/remains a conceited jerk. He's but a child.

It irks me that this new generation wants it all ... as long as it doesn't have to work for it.

So, I haven't read any predictions from anyone ... got any?


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## Steve

Henry said:


> So, I haven't read any predictions from anyone ... got any?


Hollie will sing something tonite the judges actually like???


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## Alan Gordon

The set list is out:

*NOW*
"No One," Alicia Keys
"I Believe," Fantasia Barrino
"Rolling in the Deep," Adele
"U Got it Bad," Usher
"Born this Way," Lady Gaga
"Fallin'," Alicia Keys
"Bad Romance," Lady Gaga

*THEN*
"In the Midnight Hour," Wilson Pickett
"A Change is Gonna Come," Sam Cooke
"September," Earth, Wind & Fire
"Son of a Preacher Man," Dusty Springfield
"Try a Little Tenderness," Otis Redding
"Heard it Through the Grapevine," Marvin Gaye
"Let's Get it On," Marvin Gaye

~Alan


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## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> The set list is out:
> 
> *NOW*
> "No One," Alicia Keys
> "I Believe," Fantasia Barrino
> "Rolling in the Deep," Adele
> "U Got it Bad," Usher
> "Born this Way," Lady Gaga
> "Fallin'," Alicia Keys
> "Bad Romance," Lady Gaga
> 
> *THEN*
> "In the Midnight Hour," Wilson Pickett
> "A Change is Gonna Come," Sam Cooke
> "September," Earth, Wind & Fire
> "Son of a Preacher Man," Dusty Springfield
> "Try a Little Tenderness," Otis Redding
> "Heard it Through the Grapevine," Marvin Gaye
> "Let's Get it On," Marvin Gaye
> 
> ~Alan


I hope Joshua's singing "Try a Little Tenderness". That could be a moment, IMHO.

I find it hard matching the guys up with the "NOW" songs. I can see Elise singing Adele, though.


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## Alan Gordon

Henry said:


> Astro was/remains a conceited jerk. He's but a child.
> 
> It irks me that this new generation wants it all ... as long as it doesn't have to work for it.
> 
> So, I haven't read any predictions from anyone ... got any?


I used the youth excuse, but Drew and Rachel Crow showed that they had the attitude and maturity to handle it. Astro didn't...

It irks me more that bad attitudes are accepted and praised... 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> I hope Joshua's singing "Try a Little Tenderness". That could be a moment, IMHO.


Joshua could potentially have a moment with every song one of the "THEN" songs.... with the exception of the Dusty Springfield song :eek2:

It'd be interesting if Phillip sang "Try A Little Tenderness." I've mentioned numerous times that while Phillip spent part of his time growing up in Leesburg, he actually came from Sasser... a town in Terrell County (MY county). Interestingly enough, Otis Redding was born in Dawson, GA... a city in Terrell County.



Steve said:


> I find it hard matching the guys up with the "NOW" songs. I can see Elise singing Adele, though.


This wouldn't be the first time she sang a song Haley covered last year (last week's GaGa song for instance).

However, I've said this before... heck, I did Monday night after "The Voice"... we need a moratorium on Adele songs. I LOVE Adele, but no more covers for a while... PLEASE!!

Mantasia will most likely sing Fantasia... I can't make up my mind on the others though... I see multiple possibilities...

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

BTW... a couple of other articles:

'American Idol' finalist Jessica Sanchez on her almost-elimination

'American Idol' Top 7 on the judges' save and that weird results show

'American Idol' final Phillip Phillips says he stroked Colton Dixon's hair to make girls jealous

'American Idol' Top 7 set list tackles tunes from now and then


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## Alan Gordon

"Alan Gordon" said:


> "Son of a Preacher Man," Dusty Springfield


I forgot to mention... my money is on Skylar singing this.

~Alan


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## Henry

Steve said:


> Hollie will sing something tonite the judges actually like???


Last nite's episode is in the can. We'll watch it today I'm sure.

Hope you're right, _Steve_.


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