# Do other types of DVR "spy and report" like TIVOs?



## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

TIVOs report back all kinds of de-identified demographic imformation about users' viewing habits. This goes down to things like how many times and when replay buttons are hit.

Do other services do similar spying?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

The way I hear it, E* does not do any of this.

Of course, how can you believe anything E* says?

Can YOU say "DishWire"?


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I understood that you can opt out of this. Can TIVO owners confirm or deny this?


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## Roger (Aug 7, 2002)

I can't see how E* can spy on me when I don't connect to a phone line. With Tivo and the required phone-line connection, yeah, they spy on you. But if you are on the net does it really matter?


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

tkrandall said:


> TIVOs report back all kinds of de-identified demographic imformation about users' viewing habits. This goes down to things like how many times and when replay buttons are hit.
> 
> Do other services do similar spying?


I don't think Replay does.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I'd have no problem with people knowing what I watch. It lets others know what shows are being watched so hopefully they don't get cancelled. and it adds a larger sample in addition to what neilson provides.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Roger said:


> I can't see how E* can spy on me when I don't connect to a phone line. With Tivo and the required phone-line connection, yeah, they spy on you. But if you are on the net does it really matter?


phone line is no longer required but why do you care if it trully means that the networks will trully know what we like is that not better


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> The way I hear it, E* does not do any of this.
> 
> Of course, how can you believe anything E* says?
> 
> Can YOU say "DishWire"?


Get over it already!!!

Ken


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

kstevens said:


> Get over it already!!!
> 
> Ken


Ken, is this more like what you are really are trying to convey to SimpleSimon and most of us?



kstevens said:


> Not to mention, anybody investing 1000 bucks in anything ought to have done research on the product. If you bought it recently and you didn't know the existing bugs with the 921 then it is entirely your fault. If you were one of the first purchasers, you might beable to be forgiven, but with E*s track record, you should have know there would be a lot of problems. I just purchased the 921 2 weeks ago and I'm quite happy with it, especially since I got it for the reduced 549 price.
> 
> Ken


As long as my privacy isn't infringed, my viewing habits may be monitored only with my approval.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

kstevens said:


> Get over it already!!!
> 
> Ken


Well, newbie, DishWire is only the most recent E* fiasco. How about the class action suit they lost? There's a bunch more, but I'm not going to hijack the thread.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> Well, newbie, DishWire is only the most recent E* fiasco. How about the class action suit they lost? There's a bunch more, but I'm not going to hijack the thread.


How was this a "fiasco" when it was announced right from the get go that it would be "Dishwire" and not firewire which would support limited Dish Network approved devices? Sure it was never effectively enabled same as the internet access with the 721 never materialized (who cares though), but I think there are certain tendencies for posters to conveniantly work with selective recall in terms of building up false expectations to even larger degrees at times much like what we saw when people were heralding the Viacom dispute as a "fiasco" after losing CBS, MTV, and a handful of other channels for a few days LOL. Dish champions to keep oft rising price hikes stable and they are rewarded with "you cost me one night of Survivor that I had to watch with rabbit ears damn you! - I'm outta here!!!" Be angry maybe that the 921 will never interface properly with a certain Dish Branded JVC hard disk drive recorder maybe, but folks don't be engraged that it won't ever work with your new DVD burner or other HTPC equipment. There were no shortage of threads before the 921 shipped warning potential customers everywhere that it would be a beta testing free-for-all for the folks ready and willing to part with the big bucks immediately for this ever evolving technology. The word was certainly out there for any smart prospective buyers doing all their homework well in advance by all means. For all we really know though, the content protection scheme built into the Dishwire port on the 921 wasn't up to MPAA final certification standards and couldn't be properly retrofitted to these same standards other competing receivers _can do_ which were released afterwards.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

unthinkable said:


> ...How was this a "fiasco" when it was announced right from the get go that it would be "Dishwire" and not firewire which would support limited Dish Network approved devices? ...
> ...Be angry maybe that the 921 will never interface properly with a certain Dish Branded JVC hard disk drive recorder maybe ...


If it were to interface at all with ANY device, maybe you'd have a point. However, it doesn't, and never will. The ports aren't even on the newer 921's.


Unthinkable said:


> ... For all we really know though, the content protection scheme built into the Dishwire port on the 921 wasn't up to MPAA final certification standards ...


Maybe for all YOU know, but for anyone that actually understands what a serial data port is (IEE1394, USB, or even good old RS-232), and/or how it works, your statement is a non-sequitor.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> If it were to interface at all with ANY device, maybe you'd have a point. However, it doesn't, and never will. The ports aren't even on the newer 921's.


Thing is, it was clearly advertised before the 921 shipped that the Dishwire port would be very limited (some folks used the term "crippled at the time) with regards to what it would be approved by Dish to communicate with. I know they were also very upfront about the fact that it wouldn't be able to power displays for people like owners of older Mitsubishi HDTV's. From what I remember, the only device that was actually rumored it would eventually be able to pass HD content to were select JVC D-VHS recorders. It didn't happen same as the Dish DVD/receiver and internet access on the 721 never materialized. That happens sometimes. People ignoring those particular Dishwire admissions now mentioning class action lawsuits have little ground to stand on imo when complaining that it will never work with things like their new DVD burners or home theater PC's. Besides this though, Dish Network is not alone in introducing 1st generation HD DVR's that had dishwire or firewire completely disabled. You can't even buy an HD-Tivo right now with a firewire port and they are heralded by and large as the industry leader in innovation, flexibility, enhanced featureset offerings, open ended DVR designs etc... What exactly does that say about the current state of things in the satellite world with regards to working firewire on HD recordable receivers? Voom doesn't have it either.



> Maybe for all YOU know, but for anyone that actually understands what a serial data port is (IEE1394, USB, or even good old RS-232), and/or how it works, your statement is a non-sequitor.


Enlighten me if you will as to why content protection issues are so implausible in a scenario where ports are actively disabled if I'm completely mistaken then. Hollywood has a lot of money at stake in protecting the future HD-DVD marketplace. They want the same ownership controls on their assets that the RIAA want for music.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

BFG said:


> I'd have no problem with people knowing what I watch. It lets others know what shows are being watched so hopefully they don't get cancelled. and it adds a larger sample in addition to what neilson provides.


Same here. I know it probably wouldn't have mattered, but I would have liked to be a statistic when it came to shows that I enjoyed, that weren't even given a fair shot. Miracles, Turks, Wolf Lake, Boomtown all come to mind. I'm glad my TiVo reports my viewing data, it probably doesn't mean much, but as some one who likes original and fresh ideas and things that are out of the norm and as someone who loathes reality TV, I want my vote, if you will, counted to show the networks one more person in this country is rejecting reality TV.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Unthinkable: the 921 was originally sold as being able to talk to D-VHS "soon". I never mentioned any of that other stuff, nor did the others that were ticked over it being dropped.

You made a statement about the "content protection scheme built into the Dishwire port". The IEEE1394 port itself, like other serial ports, does NOT in and of itself have any content protection - or any other protocol-based controls. That level of functionality lives in the device drivers. Said drivers can be implemented in firmware if appropriate, but that is rare.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

Unthinkable said:


> Enlighten me if you will as to why content protection issues are so implausible in a scenario where ports are actively disabled if I'm completely mistaken then. Hollywood has a lot of money at stake in protecting the future HD-DVD marketplace. They want the same ownership controls on their assets that the RIAA want for music.


That's a naive way of looking at it. The reality is that the MPAA has always hated fair use, and has activly been trying to find ways around it. The dispicable piece of legislative diareah known as the DMCA (Amazing what money greasing the palms of politicians can accomplish) has allowed them to sidestep the fair use laws by "protecting" (the industry's uphamism for sabotoging and crippling a product) the program, and making the removal of such "protection" a crime. By putting in these so-called broadcast "flags" they can more completly cripple the broadcast so that people can no longer time-shift and archive tv programs, or can only keep it for a specific period of time, or only watch it once, etc. This is now, and has always been their goal. We only have to read the transcripts from the Sony case in the 80's where then MPAA president Jack Valenti called time-shifting "stealing". He still mantains this view, and the MPAA and RIAA have successfully peddled the fiction that this is all about piracy, when nothing could be further from the truth. :soapbox:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The new SHVERA law has privacy rules that PROHIBITS satellite providers from collecting personally identifyable information from you without disclosing that they are collecting the information, what information they are collecting, and who they are giving the information to.

It does not stop them from collecting agregate information or from investigating potential fraud. So IF your PVR list and backup button use were logged and uploaded, E* would either have to tell you or strip all personally identifiable information from the data.

JL


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

by the way anyone who has a box can be spyed on by there provider


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

kwajr said:


> by the way anyone who has a box can be spyed on by there provider


Unless there is no phone line connected. No communication back to provider, no spying.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Big Bob said:


> Unless there is no phone line connected. No communication back to provider, no spying.


not always true i know that most cables are 2 way now how do you think you get vod and ppv on tw and such no phone line


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

Yeah, but this is a satellite forum. 
who cares about cable?


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## freakmonkey (Sep 11, 2003)

No the dish DVR's do not collect data about you and report back to headquartes. The only thing E* wants to know from your receiver is if you bought pay per view and that the recivers is at the phone number listed on the account. And no before any one asks the dish is only a reciveing dish it can not and will not ever send any thing into space from your front yard.


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