# Quick ? - "record up to 6 HD channels at once"?



## klingonscum (May 13, 2009)

I currently have 2x 722's servicing 3 HDTVs and am looking at upgrading to a Hopper and 2 Joeys. But...I read Satellite Guys' review of the Hopper and he says that the Hopper only has 3 tuners.

Yet the Dish page itself says "Record up to 6 HD Channels at Once with PrimeTime Anytime".

So somebody explain it to me - are there only 3 tuners in the box, or are there 6? We thrash all four tuners on my existing 722s quite often in my household (my kids are constantly recording Phineus and Ferb marathons or something while we're recording stuff like Leverage, Jusified, Archer, etc) and trying to shoehorn down into 3 tuners would be a bit irritating.

Other than that, I'm psyched - I'll apparently be able to turn in my two 722s and get a Hopper and 2 Joeys for a $100 equipment/installation outlay and an extra buck a month on my bill...and stop having to pull what's left of my hair out because the last firmware upgrade in December totally hosed my SlingAdapters on my 722s so they can't sling recorded shows to my 3rd HDTV anymore (just stream live TV).


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The new hopper has 3 tuners. During prime time, it can record the big 4 HD broadcast channels on one of them, effectively giving you 6 tuner performance at that time IF you record the broadcast channels.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

wait for reports how sling adapter will works with the h2k, no one test it yet

as the "6 channels" ... it was clearly seen from initial official statement, it will confuse ppl as a hell - so what we have now.

Time to create a FAQ. Anyone ? Stuart ? James ? Mark ?


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## klingonscum (May 13, 2009)

lparsons21 said:


> The new hopper has 3 tuners. During prime time, it can record the big 4 HD broadcast channels on one of them, effectively giving you 6 tuner performance at that time IF you record the broadcast channels.


How the heck can it record 4 HD channels on a single tuner at once? What's so special about the big 4 - are they compressing them/multiplexing them into a single channel from the satellite or something and then decompressing/demultiplexing them in the Hopper? What does that do to picture quality?

As for my SlingAdapters, the only reason I got 'em on my existing DVRs was to get the content to my 3rd HDTV without having to get a 3rd DVR; I don't use it for slung-over-internet access to my shows because I've got a lousy 384kbps upstream DSL connection at home (a drawback to living out in the boonies). I probably wouldn't bother to hook one of 'em up to the Hopper at all...ok, I might in order to sling content to a PC elsewhere in my house, maybe...


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The big 4 in most areas in HD are all on one transponder. So instead of recording the channel, they use one tuner to record the complete transponder and seperate out the channels internally in the Hopper. Pretty darned slick if you ask me! 

So far the reports I've seen indicate the video is slightly better with the Hopper/Joey than with previous models. I tend to think that is wishful thinking, but it indicates the video quality isn't degraded.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

P Smith said:


> wait for reports how sling adapter will works with the h2k, no one test it yet


So far so good on mine. What do you want to know?


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

The PTA/PTAT question is already in the FAQ. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=174583


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Time to create a FAQ. Anyone ? Stuart ? James ? Mark ?


We have a FAQ linked in the post above mine... it is a work in progress, kind of waiting to have more people with in-home experiences to nail down more actual FAQs... but this is one of the very questions addressed in that FAQ.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Is there a way to have it sticky across forums?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Stewart Vernon said:


> We have a FAQ linked in the post above mine... it is a work in progress, kind of waiting to have more people with in-home experiences to nail down more actual FAQs... but this is one of the very questions addressed in that FAQ.


Umm, "H/J FAQ", what would be sticky here, in this forum.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

mdavej said:


> So far so good on mine. What do you want to know?


Drive partitioning scheme, please.
MOCA signal screen.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Umm, "H/J FAQ", what would be sticky here, in this forum.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=201721 under construction ...


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Drive partitioning scheme, please.
> MOCA signal screen.


PTAT is enabled, that's all I know. I have no Joey's, so no MOCA. What does any of that have to do with sling?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Nothing. 

So, why not ask you, new user of the wonderful box something what will be interesting to know ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Nothing.
> 
> So, why not ask you, new user of the wonderful box something what will be interesting to know ?


What would one see on a signal level screen unless there was another MOCA device on the system? Transmitted signal level?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

PrimeTime Anytime is explained at http://www.dishuser.org/ptat.php.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

phrelin said:


> (from Installation Experiences thread)
> 
> Would someone who has a unit working confirm that one easily can save PTAT recorded shows onto the user hard drive space with extra time at the beginning and end effectively giving you complete copies of all those shows that don't follow the on-the-hour scheduling system - like many ABC shows that actually run from 9:00 to 10:02.


That's one of the questions I'd like answered to complete the EKB page, and Dish PR has been unresponsive. Would someone save the 9:00 show, and then save the 10:00 show (or any show and the one immediately following on the same channel)? I expect the 9:00 save will have 3 minutes late into the 10:00 show, but does the 10:00 show also have the 1 early at the end of the 9:00 show? There should be a few minutes that appear both at the end of the first and beginning of the second.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> What would one see on a signal level screen unless there was another MOCA device on the system? Transmitted signal level?


Yes, that would base measure - when no load. 
Fundamental point in a science of measures and troubleshooting. 
Well, it's for technicians and engineer, perhaps for person with curious minds ...


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> That's one of the questions I'd like answered to complete the EKB page, and Dish PR has been unresponsive. Would someone save the 9:00 show, and then save the 10:00 show (or any show and the one immediately following on the same channel)? I expect the 9:00 save will have 3 minutes late into the 10:00 show, but does the 10:00 show also have the 1 early at the end of the 9:00 show? There should be a few minutes that appear both at the end of the first and beginning of the second.


I can confirm that start early / end late is preserved on all programs, even overlapping ones when viewed or saved. So as in your example the last few minutes of program 1 is repeated in the first few minutes of program 2.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Thank you!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> Thank you!


+1


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> PrimeTime Anytime is explained at http://www.dishuser.org/ptat.php.


Thanks! I finally got around to looking at the Dish web site info on the Hopper and I erroneously inferred from a checklist that it included something like on demand for prime time TV like my (adult) kids have with Comcast where they can watch an episode of something from three weeks ago, which then had my pea brain wondering how that was possible, all because I didn't recognize that "PTAT" is the acronym for PrimeTime Anytime. And much like Dish has its own definition of "soon" apparently they have their own definition of "Anytime" which means the past 8 days.

EDIT: Which, of course, isn't exactly true because with a Hopper I assume one can move recordings to an EHD. I have episodes of shows from three years ago I fully intend to watch "anytime" now.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Yes, making it truly anytime requires some effort on our part to save to the DVR space and then possibly to archive to EHD. Even then, "anytime" is limited to the life of the drive or the account, whichever ends first. I'll have to add a definition along with today's other edits.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: With PTA active, NCAA basketball started recording at 7:30pm tonight.


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## klingonscum (May 13, 2009)

What about getting two Hoppers - is there any way they could "share" a Joey between them (and/or act as a "Joey" for content on each other)?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

klingonscum said:


> What about getting two Hoppers - is there any way they could "share" a Joey between them (and/or act as a "Joey" for content on each other)?


Not right now. Dual-hopper installations are unable to "see" each other right now.

We will all have to wait and see what happens when they update firmware to enable Hoppers to see each other. All bets are off until that support comes.


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## jack51pine (Mar 17, 2012)

lparsons21 said:


> The big 4 in most areas in HD are all on one transponder. So instead of recording the channel, they use one tuner to record the complete transponder and seperate out the channels internally in the Hopper. Pretty darned slick if you ask me!
> 
> So far the reports I've seen indicate the video is slightly better with the Hopper/Joey than with previous models. I tend to think that is wishful thinking, but it indicates the video quality isn't degraded.


Can you watch 2 or 3 of the big 4 during primetime and only use one tuner so you still have 2 tuners available?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I can confirm that start early / end late is preserved on all programs, even overlapping ones when viewed or saved. So as in your example the last few minutes of program 1 is repeated in the first few minutes of program 2.


We've since discovered the Save function initially only creates a pointer into that day's PTAT block in the Dish partition of the HDD, with the actual copy being made 8 days after the original recording when the purge is done. Do you happen to still have those programs, or does anyone else have saved back-to-back programs over 8 days old that can check? (To verify you have a copy in place of the pointer, highlight the program, press Select, then choose Edit. The file size will be > 0.)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My first nights PTA programs finally aged enough to answer the question.
The programs I saved are now trimmed down to the length of the show.

An hour show (Harry's Law - NBC) saved as 1.646 GM. It cannot be played beyond the hour saved.
I also saved the next show (Fashion Star - NBC) and it was a separate file.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

jack51pine said:


> Can you watch 2 or 3 of the big 4 during primetime and only use one tuner so you still have 2 tuners available?


I'm not sure if you could watch them in real time, but there is no reason you couldn't watch them slightly delayed as long as PTAT is active.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

James, confirming you're saying the padding was stripped when the program was saved to your DVR space?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobaBird said:


> James, confirming you're saying the padding was stripped when the program was saved to your DVR space?


Yes. And it was trimmed to exactly 60 minutes, no over/under.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Is it trimmed by even hour or by guide ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Per the guide, I believe.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

That's definitely not what was described at the CES booth.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

DON'T save a PTAT program the you have recorded with an extended time regular timer. The saved PTAT timer without the extra time will take over the icon in the "My Recordings" screen and you will no longer have access to the longer one. Don't ask me how I know.


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## klingonscum (May 13, 2009)

Ok, this is pretty cool - some info here that others might find useful. Assuming that I was given the correct info by the sales support guy I IM'd with on the Dish site, here's my existing situation, and I'll follow it with what I'll be able to do:

I currently have a "Kids" TV upstairs, and a Projector/TV downstairs. Each has a ViP 722 DVR on them.
I just got a new additional TV downstairs (gameroom) that I wanted to get HD content from the downstairs 722 over to.
To that end, I had bought SlingAdapters (two, actually, one for the upstairs DVR as well), but unfortunately, Dish "broke" them with a software/firmware update in December as everyone with a 722 and a SlingAdapter has recently discovered. I'm not confident they'll ever fix the issue.
I have a very real need for 4 discrete tuners because my kids record a metric crapload of cartoons and disney and etc practically 24x7. Which means a single Hopper (3 tuners) and 2 Joeys wouldn't cut it for me.

So, I first asked the support guy "can I replace my downstairs 722 with a Hopper and a Joey, leaving the upstairs 722 there? The answer: No. Apparently a Hopper can't coexist with a 722 (on the same dish, I assume).

Next, I asked if I could have 2 Hoppers and a Joey, with the Joey connected to only one of the Hoppers. The answer: Yes.

Next question: What would my monthly bill go up with that rig? After "gimme a few minutes to figure that out", he came back with "your bill will go up $7/month".

Oh - and I'm tempted to get a 2nd Joey as well; I figure I could always hook 2 Joeys up to the gameroom TV using different HDMI inputs...

That's definitely worth it to me. The only thing I forgot to ask was "what would my out-of-pocket for the new hardware be" - as soon as I find that out, I'll post it up here...remember, I'm swapping out 2x ViP722s for 2x Hoppers and a Joey.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

2 722s are $17
2 Hoppers / 1 Joey are $18

So your bill only goes up $1

1st Hopper and up to 4 Joeys are a flat $99 for all. I think the second Hopper is $199.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

patmurphey said:


> DON'T save a PTAT program the you have recorded with an extended time regular timer. The saved PTAT timer without the extra time will take over the icon in the "My Recordings" screen and you will no longer have access to the longer one. Don't ask me how I know.


So are you saying that if the recording starts as a timer with a start early/end late that the start early/end late is honored even though that timer is skipped due to the program being part of PTA?

I know one can set a separate timer for PTA programming and unskip it if one wants to record just the program in question and the chosen padding - but unskipping a program that is also part of PTA uses a second tuner.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> So are you saying that if the recording starts as a timer with a start early/end late that the start early/end late is honored even though that timer is skipped due to the program being part of PTA?
> .


If the timer is for the program at the end of the PTA block the timer will stop when the PTA stops no matter what the end pad you set.


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

mdavej said:


> 2 722s are $17
> 2 Hoppers / 1 Joey are $18
> 
> So your bill only goes up $1
> ...


1st and 2nd Hoppers are either $100 each or $200 each depending on which tier the existing customer falls in. The majority of existing customers will pay a total of $200 for 2 Hoppers ($100 ea.) and up to 4 Joeys (Free).


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

James Long said:


> So are you saying that if the recording starts as a timer with a start early/end late that the start early/end late is honored even though that timer is skipped due to the program being part of PTA?
> 
> I know one can set a separate timer for PTA programming and unskip it if one wants to record just the program in question and the chosen padding - but unskipping a program that is also part of PTA uses a second tuner.


You have to unskip a timer and use a tuner to get extended time. I did a test last night with 204 and the erasure problem is gone. Both the extended regular timer and the saved PTAT timer will show on "My Recordings" and can be viewed and erased independently. (The erased "saved" PTAT recording on "My Recordings" will not erase the PTAT recording from PTAT.)

The unskipping is a nuisance but a workable way to get an extended time, and the behavior problem I had with 203 is gone.


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