# Another dead 921



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

First let me say that I dont think it was the new software. I got home last night, deleted OTA's/ saved. I then powered off 921 and pulled the plug. After reboot I rescanned in my OTA's and saved,, everything was fine. I woke up at 12:45 for some reason and while wandering the house noticed that the receiver was on with flashing lights,, figured it was doing its nightly reboot. This morning, it had a power and HD light on,, turned on tv and picture was frozen. I did a soft reboot , after about 5 mins all I had was pretty flashing lights in sequence with an occasional ka-chunk, remote was unresponsive, sys info button on receiver also unresponsive. I pulled plug and let it sit for about 30 mins then tried again. After 10 mins, I got the flashing lights and a lot of ka-chunks. Now,, question.... I purchased the Dish insurance about 6 months ago, as this is my receiver, one of the originals from Mar 2004. Will Dish replace ? I hate to assume that is what I bought the insurance for but you never know. Has anyone had to use the insurance for a replacement yet ? :nono2:


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

I've seen the flashing x-mas light when the 921 is reinitialization the hard drive. This takes awhile. Even after the lights stop, you need to give it 5-10 mins before you'll be able to power up. If I remember the 921 also rebooted itself 2-3 times during this process.

Sounds like you left is overnight so this is probably not your problem. Sounds kinda like your in a hard drive re-init loop (HD failre or corruption).


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Thats what I think. It is not a pretty sound to hear it kachunking.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

This was the Click-tick of death for my old one as well....... Dead hard drive. They have been good with the insurance program. They send you a refurb 921 and pay the freight both ways. It sux that you lost any recordings, but it won't cost you any $ out of pocket.

You'll have to go through 20 minutes of CSR hell as they make sure you aren't an idiot and it isn't something simple to fix. Then they will send the request to another department that will call you back within 24 hours and set up a replacement unit. (I hate this part, they used to get the ball rolling themselves, but they have added another layer of management to deal with this type of situation so it adds another day to the ordeal).

You get the replacement, hook it up, test it and activate over the phone with a CSR, and then box up your old receiver and send it back in the same box they shipped you the replacement. You peel off a UPS label that has the RA number already on it, and ship it back (do this quickly, if you hold the old one a few weeks they will bill you for the second receiver, so don't dawdle).

One suggestion, ..... make sure you ship the unit to an address that receives packages, so they don't leave it on your front porch or somewhere else vulnerable to the elements or theft. I use my office and it has worked well.

Good luck....


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Thanks for the info Bob. I am lucky in one respect that I can still get locals,, just moved cable over to TV this morning and it picked it right up.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Good luck. I just wound up watching DVDs while I waited until my replacement showed up. Finished the Charmed Season 1 box set, just bought season 2 last week.......


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Wife just emailed me and asked if I could get it overnighted. I dont have a backup for recording,, she is going to miss her soaps all week, she had 3 days on there plus the season premiere of House. Other than that we pretty much keep up on what we have recorded.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I didn't realize mine was dead until a Friday Night. They called me back Saturday morning and the replacement showed up on a Wednesday. My gut feeling is that you will see it on Monday. 

As for her shows, try a website/program that you can download TV shows off of (eTomi Pro is one I think). With the 921's burping on a few recordings, I've caught shows I missed this way........ I don't know how good it will be for Soaps, but primetime shows are gotten fairly easily. (And SciFi shows have LOADS of users)


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I will probably be calling them tonight when I get home,, that way,, if they want to do some tests, I will be able too. I am a tech so I understand how they think,, not often do we take someone explanation without seeing for ourselves. I dont think I have ever seen her soap out there on the web but guess now I have a reason to look and with locals still available, we can survive.


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## Spanky (Feb 4, 2005)

I wonder if there isn't something about the software updates causing hard drive failures.

The hard dive on my 921 ( 6 months old ) about a day after a software download in July.

It seems like there is always someone posting that their drive failed shortly after a software upgrade.

Hmmmm???


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

It is strange though mine did work for several hours after . I have to say, good for dish on their service though. one call to tech who took all system info. Then another call from them about 3 hours later, verifying the info and quick try to boot 921 with her on the phone. Its dead and a replacement is on the way. Thank you Dish for your prompt service.


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## James_Bruce (Jan 8, 2004)

Yeah I got the flashing xmas lights all the time before it tells me that the hard drive is bad, happened during the sw upgrade.

I called dish at 8 this morning, and they said that they would have to call me back.. it is almost 6PM, they must be busy.


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## zyberfix (Aug 21, 2004)

Truth be told it not really that hard drive that dead it the fact that the image that was download and then written to the boot portion (which hold the drivers to read the file system) of the drive has become corrupted(usally while decompressing to memory/cache).Being an engineer at a computer company we see this type of failure is all to common.. As with most hard drive based OS's when corrupt data is written to the boot files of the OS the drive then becomes unreadable (of course it easier to recover a PC, usally) . It really comes down to a bad implementation of the update/patching process. Implimenting a proper checksum system that verify each file that is decompressed, and written. This of course would slow dont the install process but reduces the number of errors when updating. 

At least that is my best guess without tearing the reciever apart to test my thoery.

Later Zyb


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Wow,, Dish was quick. I received my new replacement and after fighting with tech support for an hour or so because he thought one of my inputs was bad. I did a hard reboot, check switch was fine. Next tech I got hold of activated unit right away but let me know I need to force update down. I can skip commercials again :welcome: :joy: :welcome:


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## 4apex (Nov 13, 2003)

zyberfix said:


> Truth be told it not really that hard drive that dead it the fact that the image that was download and then written to the boot portion (which hold the drivers to read the file system) of the drive has become corrupted(usally while decompressing to memory/cache).Being an engineer at a computer company we see this type of failure is all to common.. As with most hard drive based OS's when corrupt data is written to the boot files of the OS the drive then becomes unreadable (of course it easier to recover a PC, usally) . It really comes down to a bad implementation of the update/patching process. Implimenting a proper checksum system that verify each file that is decompressed, and written. This of course would slow dont the install process but reduces the number of errors when updating.
> 
> At least that is my best guess without tearing the reciever apart to test my thoery.
> 
> Later Zyb


I understand what you're saying about a corrupted of failed decompression/installation. But the Kachunk mentioned earlier, and in my case the loud hard drive wailing (sounds like a table saw cutting some wood) intermittently are signs of physical hard drive failure, not system OS corruption.

Is it possible that an OS instalation or upgrade can somehow physically damage the hard drive? I remember YEARS ago (back in the commodore VIC-20/64 days) there were programs that you ran and your floppy drive would "play a song", in actuality the heads were just bein josteled to the sound of a tune. people learned real quick that the program ended damaging their drives. or in the PC world, there were programs that would park the hard drive heads on track 81 (or something like that) which was outside the normal parameters, thus again damaging the hard drive.


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## zyberfix (Aug 21, 2004)

I remember the Commodore days what fun.. If the drive is making a load noise then Yes I agree the drive is hosed.. I was mostly commenting on the fact that several of the resent failure (including mine) noted on the forums are more than likely boot corruption and the built in receiver diags miss daignose the image failure as a drive failure. 
I probaly should have clarified may post a little more ( sorry my bad). 

So my thoery on some of the hard drive failures is that once the boot image become corupted the built in diags mis-report the some of the hard drives as failing in truth its just a boot image corruption.

This can happen in most OS's when the hard drive cache or system memory does not properly right back to the hard drive this can (and has) happened. This type of write back issue tend to corrupt the data on the drives allocation table. Which cause errors in boot table or just genral data corruption some sectors of the drive. Which most can be mis-reported by some diags as a drive failure. 

Hope this clarifies things a bit...

later Zyb


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

My 921 died last night. Was in SD so I could set up some recordings without turning on the TV. It appeared that the recording went fine. Red light came on and went off at end. 
Tried to switch back to HD and it wouldn't do it. 
Tried a Soft Power reset. Got the shiny Dish LOGO and then the first message that it was in standby and booting. Then nothing.
Tried a power plug reboot with the same results.
Left it unplugged overnight and this morning still broken.
Called Dish, went through the routine, and am now waiting for a call back.

I thing Zyb is correct. The boot image got corrupted with the 270 download.
They probably will never tell us, so we will never know unless some brave Dish employee wants to risk his job and report here on what happened.

When the 921 is working it is a pretty darned good HD receiver, but I feel like I really screwed up spending a grand on the box.

Status: waiting.................


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## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Grandude said:


> My 921 died last night. Was in SD so I could set up some recordings without turning on the TV. It appeared that the recording went fine. Red light came on and went off at end.
> Tried to switch back to HD and it wouldn't do it.
> Tried a Soft Power reset. Got the shiny Dish LOGO and then the first message that it was in standby and booting. Then nothing.
> Tried a power plug reboot with the same results.
> ...


My 921 failed in a similar way but it was the satellite tuner and not the disk. I could bring up the guide if I hit the guide button a few minutes into the bootup process. If I let it run too long it would lock up completely with a blank screen. By getting the guide up I could at least watch OTA channels. You might PM Mark and see if he can help you get a faster response. If you send him (privately) your receiver information and Dish account number he may be able to get it to someone who will call you back within a few hours. My receiver died on Sunday and I had a new one on Wednesday. Dish paid for shipping both ways.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

bbomar said:


> My 921 failed in a similar way but it was the satellite tuner and not the disk. I could bring up the guide if I hit the guide button a few minutes into the bootup process. If I let it run too long it would lock up completely with a blank screen. By getting the guide up I could at least watch OTA channels. You might PM Mark and see if he can help you get a faster response. If you send him (privately) your receiver information and Dish account number he may be able to get it to someone who will call you back within a few hours. My receiver died on Sunday and I had a new one on Wednesday. Dish paid for shipping both ways.


Update:
A nice lady named Joy called back early in the evening and we went through a lot of the same stuff and a few new things I had not tried. Finally was able to get the 921 to boot up farther by hooking up an AV cable to the TV. Apparently the HD output was dead. Once we got it booted, I tried to switch back from 480i to 720p and got a blank screen again. Tried 1080i with the same results. Didn't try DVI but suspect that it would also fail.
After spending about 1.5 hours on the phone she threw in the towel and gave me an RMA and said a new(rebuilt I suppose) receiver would be shipped to me overnight so probably will arrive tomorrow.
In the mean time I can now watch some of my recorded programs so not a total loss. 

Status: Waiting for new 921 to arrive....


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

My hard drive died last Sunday. Had the unit for 9 months and lost some precious recordings. Dish called me last night and said they will send a replacement. Apparently the 921 support techs don't work on Sundays or Mondays and they are the only ones that can authorize replacements. Hopefully it will arrive tomorrow or Friday at the latest.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

Update:
My refurbished 921 arrived at 930 this morning and I had it installed and running by around 11 am. Played with it for an hour or so and then shut down to go out for awhile.
Upon return I tried powering it on and got nothing but a blank screen and no HD or SD light.
After waiting for 5 minutes or so, I gave up and did a power button reset. 
It came up and after downloading data? it started running again. I hope the second boot cured it. 

One thing that concerned me was that the shipping box it came in failed the test. The bottom plastic/foam support had slipped out of position and one end of the 921 was resting on the bottom of the box. I hope this hasn't adversely affected the hard drive.

Status: Running now. Software is L270HEED-N. Boot is 150B
Old 921 was L270HECD and boot was 140B, but don't know if this got updated to 150B when 270 downloaded.
Free space on drive is 158hrs 52min SD or 22hrs 41min HD.


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

zyberfix said:


> Truth be told it not really that hard drive that dead it the fact that the image that was download and then written to the boot portion (which hold the drivers to read the file system)


I about guarantee this is incorrect. I bet if the drive was taken out of the machine and a low level format was done, it would still fail. I also think if you ran the proper drive diagnostics on the drive (Maxtor for the 921) it would also fail. This isn't to forget SMART. I bet if your computer supports SMART, it would also fail at bootup.



zyberfix said:


> It really comes down to a bad implementation of the update/patching process. Implimenting a proper checksum system that verify each file that is decompressed, and written.


I am pretty sure Echostar has implemented a proper checksum, I know this as I have had a download fail and "re-download" because of corruption. In fact, most compressed packages will not properly "unpack" if the .tar (or whatever other compression technique is used) is corrupted. I doubt this has anything to do in this situation - he sounds like he has the "typical" HDD failure.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Grandude said:


> Update:
> Status: Running now. Software is L270HEED-N. Boot is 150B
> Old 921 was L270HECD and boot was 140B, but don't know if this got updated to 150B when 270 downloaded.
> Free space on drive is 158hrs 52min SD or 22hrs 41min HD.


PS: Your boot level is determined at the factory and not by software downloads.

I too just got my replacement 921 last night. During startup it failed the switch test and was unable to fully boot up. Called tech support. they had me bypass the DP separator and just connect one tuner. It later passed the switch test where all four satellites were visible. The software level was L055 which is the initial factory level. I connected the DP separator and both tuners were able to see the satellites.

Shortly after going thru some menu features it locked up but also noticed a software download was occuring (blinking power light). Was advised to wait 30 minutes or so before attempting to power up the unit. It took over 50 minutes to complete download and another 10 minutes to reboot. Now at L270 things appear ok. Setup my digital OTA and some timers rebooted to update guide.

Things again appears back to normal except this morning already got the infamous stretch bug.
Bottom line it takes an hour or so to get the replacement unit working. It's funny but my original 921 was at a higher inital software level and started up as soon as it booted while the replacement is useless until you can get the software to load.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Interesting that yours failed the check switch. My replacement did also and the tech kept trying to tell me that the cables were bad. After a couple hard boots, without messing with cables, check switch passed. I have also had it twice lose everything, ota and channels. It has taken a couple more hard boots and download of data to get it back. My unit is also an HEED as compared to HECD . I am starting to think there maybe something wrong with the tuners inside but doubt seriously that I could convince a tech of that to get another replacement.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Redster said:


> Interesting that yours failed the check switch. My replacement did also and the tech kept trying to tell me that the cables were bad. After a couple hard boots, without messing with cables, check switch passed. I have also had it twice lose everything, ota and channels. It has taken a couple more hard boots and download of data to get it back. My unit is also an HEED as compared to HECD . I am starting to think there maybe something wrong with the tuners inside but doubt seriously that I could convince a tech of that to get another replacement.


I think in my case because the original software level was so low (L055) it didn't know anything about DPP44 or separators and first thought it was a legacy series. When placing it menu mode most features were greyed out. The signal test feature (menu 6-2) wasn't getting any signal until I removed the separator and connected the DPP44 directly to tuner#1 only. Even then it caused weird problems where the signal it was getting was identified as the wrong sat. I think the check switch evenually fixed the situation because after that passed I was able to place the separator back on and run check switch for both tuners.

I don't think you have any problems with your tuners but perform some signal test and possibly check switch tests to reconfirm. The replacement unit has a 90 day warranty.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

jergenf said:


> I think in my case because the original software level was so low (L055) it didn't know anything about DPP44 or separators and first thought it was a legacy series. When placing it menu mode most features were greyed out. The signal test feature (menu 6-2) wasn't getting any signal until I removed the separator and connected the DPP44 directly to tuner#1 only. Even then it caused weird problems where the signal it was getting was identified as the wrong sat. I think the check switch evenually fixed the situation because after that passed I was able to place the separator back on and run check switch for both tuners.
> 
> I don't think you have any problems with your tuners but perform some signal test and possibly check switch tests to reconfirm. The replacement unit has a 90 day warranty.


Well, it has happened 3 times counting the initial install. The unit isnt being moved but all of a sudden, I lose everything,, do a check switch and one works, the other doesnt (using a twin), I never had a problem with other 921 . The OTA is weird because the channels show in guide but I couldnt view any of them. I deleted then rescanned,, it found them all but I still couldnt see any of them. Couple hard boots and everything was fine without messing with the cable. That certainly sounds like something flaky with the tuners to me.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Redster said:


> Well, it has happened 3 times counting the initial install. The unit isnt being moved but all of a sudden, I lose everything,, do a check switch and one works, the other doesnt (using a twin), I never had a problem with other 921 . The OTA is weird because the channels show in guide but I couldnt view any of them. I deleted then rescanned,, it found them all but I still couldnt see any of them. Couple hard boots and everything was fine without messing with the cable. That certainly sounds like something flaky with the tuners to me.


You have a valid point if it keeps happening. Next time when it fails a switch test for a particular tuner try swapping the inputs from the dish (however do not do this if you're using a DP separator) and see if the problem remains with the same tuner. Don't know what to recommend for the OTA problem, is sounds like phone call time.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

That is pretty much what I was planning on doing. If the wife loses another recording she has told me to try another one. I am pretty tempted now to just put it on Ebay and go for a 942 but I hate to sell something that may have a problem with it. Will just wait till / if it happens again and decide then.


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