# How slow are the HR22's?



## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

Had an old Hughes TiVo DVR fail the other day. DTV sent me an HR22. I have 3 Hr20's which I like but was hoping for a 24. Are the 22's that much slower than the 24's? Any other differences besides speed?
Thanks.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

radamo said:


> Had an old Hughes TiVo DVR fail the other day. DTV sent me an HR22. I have 3 Hr20's which I like but was hoping for a 24. Are the 22's that much slower than the 24's? Any other differences besides speed?
> Thanks.


The HR22 has the larger drive [500 vs 300], and the speed wasn't that much slower than my HR20, though it was "slightly" [as in I could notice it and have to slow down my remote pressing]


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR22 has the larger drive [500 vs 300], and the speed wasn't that much slower than my HR20, though it was "slightly" [as in I could notice it and have to slow down my remote pressing]


Thanks for the prompt reply. The extra room will be nice to have. I will have to assess the speed issue. One of the big benefits of DTV over our local cable provider (Cablevision) is the speed of the menu and guide. If that gets taken away by this "downgrade" in equipment I will not be a very happy client. 
RA


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

radamo said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply. The extra room will be nice to have. I will have to assess the speed issue. One of the big benefits of DTV over our local cable provider (Cablevision) is the speed of the menu and guide. If that gets taken away by this "downgrade" in equipment I will not be a very happy client.
> RA


The new HDUI should speed things up when using the guide and menu. Also keep in mind if you use Native ON it will make channel changing slower.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

I know many complain about the HR22 and because of this I cringed when my parents received an HR22 as a replacement a year ago when one of their hr's died, but that unit has performed well. I have HR24's and while there is a difference in performance vs the HR22, thosedifferences aren't significant enough for me to complain about.

Also, the new GUI does speed up guide and menu performance.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

say-what said:


> I know many complain about the HR22 and because of this I cringed when my parents received an HR22 as a replacement a year ago when one of their hr's died, but that unit has performed well. I have HR24's and while there is a difference in performance vs the HR22, thosedifferences aren't significant enough for me to complain about.
> 
> Also, the new GUI does speed up guide and menu performance.


That is great news. My HR20's have performed well... at least since about 2007. Originally the software sucked... But they now work well. I am just hoping that the HR22 performs as well in the long run. 
Thanks for the feedback.
RA


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> The new HDUI should speed things up when using the guide and menu. Also keep in mind if you use Native ON it will make channel changing slower.


Yes, Native on absolutely slows things down a bit... did that on the HR20 as well. But it still is my choice for best picture quality. Thanks,
RA


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

radamo said:


> Yes, Native on absolutely slows things down a bit... did that on the HR20 as well. But it still is my choice for best picture quality. Thanks,
> RA


Mine too!


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## bigrig (Aug 7, 2002)

My HR22 was okay when we got it a year ago, but lately it has been sluggggish. Hoping the new GUI helps.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bigrig said:


> My HR22 was okay when we got it a year ago, but lately it has been sluggggish. Hoping the new GUI helps.


Have you cleared the NVRAM lately?


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## leier911 (Oct 17, 2006)

I hear this quite a bit too about Native ON vs OFF. From my tests, having Native on with my TV is about 2 seconds faster with if I turn native off. Not sure why that is..........The TV is really good/fast at changing and adjusting the resoultion with it on. So I keep mine on with 720 and 1080 checked.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

leier911 said:


> I hear this quite a bit too about Native ON vs OFF. From my tests, having Native on with my TV is about 2 seconds faster with if I turn native off.* Not sure why that is*..........The TV is really good/fast at changing and adjusting the resoultion with it on. So I keep mine on with 720 and 1080 checked.


It because of another stage of buffering as it changes resolutions.


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## leier911 (Oct 17, 2006)

Old School. But I thought people said Having Native ON slowed things down. If it is another round as you say, why is it that mine goes so zippy? Because the tv is better at it? I always hear people saying oh turn Native to OFF, your channel changes are a lot faster. Well I tried that and the channel changing got SLOWER....


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

leier911 said:


> Old School. But I thought people said Having Native ON slowed things down. If it is another round as you say, why is it that mine goes so zippy? Because the tv is better at it? I always hear people saying oh turn Native to OFF, your channel changes are a lot faster. Well I tried that and the channel changing got SLOWER....


You sure you didn't mix these up? :lol:
Mine does have the 2 sec difference, but it isn't an issue, and it is with native "On", not off.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Have you cleared the NVRAM lately?


How is this done on the HR22? 
Thanks,
RA

Nevermind... this is just a system restart.
Got it.
RA


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## beforesixbeers (Nov 19, 2011)

Guaranteed fix and how to for system slowness
The remote's model ID sends remote information to receiver with each keystroke, narrowing options for remote-to-receiver programming.
Customers may need to disable Model ID if receiver is slow to respond to remote commands.
Put remote in TV mode 
Press and hold Mute and Select until the green light flashes twice.
Enter 9-6-3 on numeric key pad. 
The green light on remote should flash twice.
Press the Channel Down key. 
The green light on remote should flash twice again.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

radamo said:


> How is this done on the HR22?
> Thanks,
> RA
> 
> ...


Actually it isn't a system reboot.

Tune to channel one, wait for it to load with sound.

Press red red, blue blue, yellow, green [quickly] and look in the lower left of the screen for "NVRAM cleared"


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Actually it isn't a system reboot.
> 
> Tune to channel one, wait for it to load with sound.
> 
> Press red red, blue blue, yellow, green [quickly] and look in the lower left of the screen for "NVRAM cleared"


Thank you for the info.
RA


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

beforesixbeers said:


> Guaranteed fix and how to for system slowness
> The remote's model ID sends remote information to receiver with each keystroke, narrowing options for remote-to-receiver programming.
> Customers may need to disable Model ID if receiver is slow to respond to remote commands.
> Put remote in TV mode
> ...


I am using a Harmony One so I am not sure this will do much for me. But thanks!
RA


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Right, that won't work with a non DirecTV remote.


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## wxguy (Feb 17, 2008)

My receiver gets slow/hung quite frequently and the channel one/button push routine clears it up for a couple days. But I'm curious. If that is such an easy fix, why doesn't the software simply clear the NVRAM every couple hours and be done with this slowdown issue.

I don't see any reason why it has to be customer initiated.



veryoldschool said:


> Actually it isn't a system reboot.
> 
> Tune to channel one, wait for it to load with sound.
> 
> Press red red, blue blue, yellow, green [quickly] and look in the lower left of the screen for "NVRAM cleared"


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I understand that point of view completely. In fact I've said the same thing. The good news is, they are spending a lot of time on finding the root causes of the slowdowns so clearing the NVRAM won't be necessary.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

So you're saying the guide scrolling increase is basically the first step?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess that's what I'm saying... the HDUI is going to have more and more functionality as time goes on. I think you'll like what you see.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Cool. I figured it laid a lot of foundation work. Looking forward to things coming this year.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

wxguy said:


> My receiver gets slow/hung quite frequently and the channel one/button push routine clears it up for a couple days. But I'm curious. If that is such an easy fix, why doesn't the software simply clear the NVRAM every couple hours and be done with this slowdown issue.
> 
> I don't see any reason why it has to be customer initiated.


"If it was easy" they would have fixed this long ago. :lol:
The "good news" is they are aware of it and trying to address it.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> "If it was easy" they would have fixed this long ago. :lol:
> The "good news" is they are aware of it and trying to address it.


That is great news...


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I understand that point of view completely. In fact I've said the same thing. The good news is, they are spending a lot of time on finding the root causes of the slowdowns so clearing the NVRAM won't be necessary.


That is good to hear. They fixed the biggest issue for me, entering a channel #. Very rarely do I have to enter it more then once. In the past it could take me 4 or 5 tries. Although I would like to see some improvement when I press List, Guide and a couple others.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

The HR22's are officially much slower than the HR20-700's. My wife just said "hey, this is really slow"!!!


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

My 2 HR22's are only very slightly slower than my HR20-700 running the new HDGUI. THere was a much bigger speeds difference before the HDGUI.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

radamo said:


> I am using a Harmony One so I am not sure this will do much for me. But thanks!
> RA


Don't you have the Original Directv Remote? Use it to Enter the code and to clear the NVRAM and then go back to using your Harmony One Remote which I also have.


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

Richierich said:


> Don't you have the Original Directv Remote? Use it to Enter the code and to clear the NVRAM and then go back to using your Harmony One Remote which I also have.


Yes, I did clear the NVRAM. I was referring to the fix which makes the remote no longer send identifiers...
RA


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

radamo said:


> The HR22's are officially much slower than the HR20-700's. My wife just said "hey, this is really slow"!!!


After she used it a bit this afternoon she is HATING the new machine (HR-22-100)! NOT GOOD...


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## fullcourt81 (Sep 8, 2005)

beforesixbeers said:


> Guaranteed fix and how to for system slowness
> The remote's model ID sends remote information to receiver with each keystroke, narrowing options for remote-to-receiver programming.
> Customers may need to disable Model ID if receiver is slow to respond to remote commands.
> Put remote in TV mode
> ...


I have not tried this yet, but how does a New Member with 4 posts know this and I have not seen it anywhere else?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I have seen this before, but I use a harmony, so never tried it. As for how he could know with 4 posts...Maybe he works for DirecTv, or has been on other forums?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"fullcourt81" said:


> I have not tried this yet, but how does a New Member with 4 posts know this and I have not seen it anywhere else?


Just because he only has 4 posts doesn't mean he doesn't know a lot about their systems. He's from Englewood, CO. Pretty much guaranteed he works for them.

Though I know for a fact that codfishjoe posted this trick last year.

It does work, of you use the DirecTV remote. If you use something like a Harmony it doesn't apply.


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## fullcourt81 (Sep 8, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> Just because he only has 4 posts doesn't mean he doesn't know a lot about their systems. He's from Englewood, CO. Pretty much guaranteed he works for them.
> 
> Though I know for a fact that codfishjoe posted this trick last year.
> 
> It does work, of you use the DirecTV remote. If you use something like a Harmony it doesn't apply.





Davenlr said:


> I have seen this before, but I use a harmony, so never tried it. As for how he could know with 4 posts...Maybe he works for DirecTv, or has been on other forums?


Well I am not trying to insult anyone. I think it is great that D* employees come here and try to help.
So you guys with thousands of posts, does this fix actually make a difference?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

It did when I used a DirecTV remote. I'd always kind of wondered why my box responded better to my harmony than when I used the DirecTV remote.

Honestly, there is no downside, so I'd try it. You can always put it back the other way.


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## beforesixbeers (Nov 19, 2011)

Yeah I work for the company. Yeah I like to help out where I can to make sure that everyone can watch tv as easily as possible!


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

beforesixbeers said:


> Yeah I work for the company. Yeah I like to help out where I can to make sure that everyone can watch tv as easily as possible!


...and we appreciate the support!
Thanks,
RA


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## Thwarter (Mar 19, 2008)

RACJ2 said:


> That is good to hear. They fixed the biggest issue for me, entering a channel #. Very rarely do I have to enter it more then once. In the past it could take me 4 or 5 tries. Although I would like to see some improvement when I press List, Guide and a couple others.


Yes! That issue seems better now with this update. Hopefully that will stay fixed. I can actually hit a three digit channel in one attempt now. Man that was a frustrating problem.

And yeah, the LIST function on my HR-22 seems to take even longer now with this update. It takes on average of 11 seconds (I timed several tries) from when I press LIST for the actual list of recordings to show.

GUIDE seems to be about the same coming up... a couple seconds sometimes faster.

Still peaved about that SD/HD nag screen on the S-video output, but that's another thread.


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## beforesixbeers (Nov 19, 2011)

one more fix as well. beings the channels are actually based on 4 digits, eneter as an example 0277 will actually speed things up as well. or pressing n the channel number and the enter key that is below the #9. keep me updated!


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## beer_geek (Jun 14, 2007)

I would just like to be able to change the channels without having white screens of various duration.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

beer_geek said:


> I would just like to be able to change the channels without having white screens of various duration.


Are you connected by HDMI or component?
If HDMI, it may be a handshake problem, which you could prove by using component [for a short time].


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## beer_geek (Jun 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Are you connected by HDMI or component?
> If HDMI, it may be a handshake problem, which you could prove by using component [for a short time].


I have 3 HR22 used to drive 1 HD and 2 SD sets. They were fine before the upgrade. They all have the white screen issue.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

beer_geek said:


> I have 3 HR22 used to drive 1 HD and 2 SD sets. They were fine before the upgrade. They all have the white screen issue.


Maybe I didn't understand your "white screen".
Is this where the black background of the GUI is white, or is this a white screen while not being in the GUI, and merely waiting for the channel to show?


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## beer_geek (Jun 14, 2007)

The entire screen goes white between channel changes.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

How slow are the HR22's?

I'd have to say 'VERY'. If you compare them to any receiver Dish Network has. Not so bad compared to my old Comcast DVR.


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## ebrunn (Oct 6, 2007)

beer_geek said:


> The entire screen goes white between channel changes.


is native turned on or off in the settings?


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## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

"beer_geek" said:


> The entire screen goes white between channel changes.


How long have you had the update? It seemed like I saw that a lot for a day or two. But then it seemed to get better. 
RA


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> It because of another stage of buffering as it changes resolutions.


Not buffering _per se_. Buffering refers to latency or delay in the signal. The signal is not delayed (any more than with Native off, and any delay in the DVR rescale is offset by there being a like rescale in the TV, so if one or the other is in effect, that particular delay is about the same).

The signal is there already (gets there at the same time regardless meaning no added delay); its just that the TV keeps it muted to black for anywhere from a half-second to 3 seconds or more longer (depending upon the TV and the original and target scaling in each instance). And this is of course part of the HDMI handshake (video mutes to black until communication both ways is established). With Native on, there are changes in the resolution, which can extend the handshake. With Native off, the resolution does not change, which shortens the handshake time and consequently the mute time.

IOW, if you have identical receivers getting identical programming connected to identical TVs, and one is Native off and the other is Native on, the one with Native off will allow the video to be visible earlier on a channel change than the one with Native on, but once each handshakes its HDMI the video from both will be relatively in sync with each other (disregarding idiosyncratic MPEG decoding issues); one will not be delayed any more than the other, meaning there is no additional stage of buffering in either case.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

Channel surf very quickly for a while and pressing random numbers help remote responses temporarly and recommend to try while trying the 963 code


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

beer_geek said:


> The entire screen goes white between channel changes.


This is not definitive, but my best guess would be that this is not a HDMI handshake issue, especially if "Native" is not on, where there would be no need for a handshake on a channel change. HDMI mutes to black during a channel change but usually only if there is a resolution change involved; I don't know but I guess there could be rare occasions where downstream equipment shows white instead, but unlikely. What makes this hard to decipher is that the receiver will also mute to black between channel changes, and sometimes white or grey if the STB is set that way. The receiver mutes to cover up the garbage frames that the decoder spits out when the incoming stream is abruptly changed to a new stream and it can't fully decode those frames yet, that is until it sees an I-frame. Once real video is decoded, it unmutes.

This is similar to the way electronic analog tuners mute during a channel change, but much longer due to the fact that digital decoding has latency. They would dip to black and silence during a channel change which took maybe a quarter second. Cheap analog cable boxes used to dispense with muting altogether; you'd get a nearly immediate channel change, but you would also get a split second of garbage accompanied by white noise in the audio.

The reported "white" is probably video coming from the DVR. It will display a white or grey screen when on a channel you can't receive if set that way in the user prefs, for instance, and will also then display grey pillar bars for 4:3 content.

Channel acquisition time is based on how often a key frame or I-frame comes along. The decoder has no idea what to do until it decodes a key frame, so stays muted. MPEG-4 can have I-frames more than 6 seconds apart, but we assume DTV adds key frames about once a second or so to speed this up, meaning that channel acquisition should be anywhere from 1/2 a second to up to 2 seconds plus about a second for decoder latency.

If the white screen is showing and reception is OK, this may be the GUI struggling to serve graphic pages fast enough (just an educated guess). But that can be fine tuned, so hold on.


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## ChileDuck (Aug 27, 2008)

Ok... I've used the suggestions in this thread and things are a lot better. But my 'List' still takes forever to display. I assume this is due to a 10% free, 2TB drive, worth of programming to display. Is there any trick I can do to help with this problem?

(I'm still upset that when the installer said he had a H24 on his truck and I asked for that, he actually just had the H22 in a H24 box... and I didn't know about the switch until way later).


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## nsolot (Nov 25, 2009)

I've only had my Hr24's about a month, but the difference between the HR24 (3 of them) and my old HR22 is like comparing a new Porsche and an old VW beetle.

In all fairness, the new 24's HDDs are barely loaded, and the 22's HDD was 90%+ full, so that may change as the HDD gets more fully loaded. I hope that is not the case.


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## tivoreno (Jul 26, 2006)

When you say this won't work with a Harmony One, are you saying the Harmony does not send the ID, or that there is no way to prevent it?


radamo said:


> I am using a Harmony One so I am not sure this will do much for me. But thanks!
> RA





dpeters11 said:


> Right, that won't work with a non DirecTV remote.





beforesixbeers said:


> Guaranteed fix and how to for system slowness
> The remote's model ID sends remote information to receiver with each keystroke, narrowing options for remote-to-receiver programming.
> Customers may need to disable Model ID if receiver is slow to respond to remote commands.
> Put remote in TV mode
> ...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I believe the ID is specific to the Directv remote. But also the programming codes and sequences for the DirecTV remote don't work on a Harmony.


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