# Official Echostar 8 Discussion



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Well folks Echostar 8 is FINALLY coming online! Please use this thread to discuss all things Echostar 8 related!

Thanks!


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

In Northern California, I am getting 113 signal strength from Transponder 113 on E*8 and 106 signal strength from Transponder 114 on E*8. 113 is a record out here for a non-spot-beam transponder.

Channels and Transpoders at 110 (not yet updated to reflect this morning's shift)


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Signal on those Tps is about the same as Tp 12 here.


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm getting 105 on 12, about the same it always is.

117 on Tp 13 and 110 on Tp 14. I'm also getting 102 on Tp 15. Is that on E*8 or just one of the better Tps from before?

Most of the signal strengths on 110 sat were from high 80s to high 90s for me before.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

I'm working on getting the spotbeam maps back up. Should be sometime late tonight or tomorrow morning. So far TP13 & 14 are over 100, the rest are 75-80.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Bryan let us know if you need any help or space.  Your chart is a great asset to the DBS Community.  Just remember the cities served by Spots are not DMA's they are MARKETS. 

(Lets keep those neilson folks happy!)


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

- On 10/7 from 300 - 500am ET, transponders 13 & 14 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8.

10/2: 55 on 13, 86 on 14
10/7: 88 on 13, 95 on 14


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

There must be an ex-school-principal at EchoStar !

Who else would set things up so that the during a rain fade event, the educational channels are the last to go out...


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## rolou21 (Apr 4, 2002)

On my 721....signal levels are;
xponder 13----97
xponder 14----96

rolou21.


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## J Rath (Apr 14, 2002)

I'm getting 120 and 122 for TPs 13 and 14! (was 88 and 117)


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Down in St. Kitts in the Caribbean with a 1.8meter Channel Master 13 has gone from 46 to 80 and 14 from 45 to 79. These readings are not as good as E*VII where most transponders are between 90 and 105. Twelve remains about normal at 64.

Am going to tweak the dish tomorrow to see if I can do better when I am sure it is at the optimum for E*VIII.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Cloudy day here - 

110 T12 - 100
110 T13 - 95
110 T14 - 105

Back on Oct 5
110 T12 - 108
110 T13 - 77
110 T14 - 101

So, by my standards - the only thing "improved" is T13.


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## Dave Johnson (Mar 23, 2002)

I hate to be a downer but the signal on transponders 13 and 14 on 110 have dropped here in Northern Canada by 30-40 points. Pretty well like when E-7 came online.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

Time for Canadians to look more closely at ExpressVu...


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Might be a good time to post all my readings with a 1.8 meter Channel Master in St. Kitts using a PVR501

119

2 - 103
4 - 102
6 - 100
8 - 100
10 - 91
11 - 111
12 - 97
13 - 104
14 - 95
15 - 97
16 - 98
17 - 106
18 - 94
19 - 99
20 - 83
21 - 100

110

1 - 51
4 - 43
5 - 46
8 - 42
9 - 43
12 - 57
13 - 80
14 - 80
21 - 34

All others zero


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## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by johnsmith22 _
> *Might be a good time to post all my readings with a 1.8 meter Channel Master in St. Kitts using a PVR501
> 
> 119
> ...


She can't take any more Captain, any more power and she'll explode


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

My SS for 110 is a few points below normal, 119 is way lower. Highest SS forboth location was on TP 13. 113 on 110 and 85/6 on 119.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

For me TP 14 was 95, now 96
tp 13 was 87, now 97.

John, I was looking at 119 when I sent you that e-mail. 

See ya
Tony


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## FrankD1 (Jul 14, 2002)

Can someone explain why we need to resort to circumstantially comparing signal strength in determining whether E8 is online? Why won't we see "Locked-EchoStar8 110 West" on the dish pointing screen as transponders are switched over?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Simple: Dish wants this to be transparent to all by us dweebs. 

See ya
Tony


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Just peaked the Dish, it made absolutely no difference to Transponders 13 and 14 but has improved the others, my readings are now:

110

1 - 58
4 - 49
5 - 55
8 - 54
9 - 52
12- 69
13- 80
14- 80
16- 47
17- 44
20- 45
21- 42
24- 42

I think my dish was a little off, it will be very interesting to watch things as they progress.


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## Pat A (May 29, 2002)

Well here in Anchorage, E*8 isn't looking too good:
Before: 
tp13 = 45
tp14 = 67
After:
tp13 = 38
tp14 = 38
These readings are with a .76m antenna. I hope that they are still playing with the foot print, and they can get a stronger signal up here.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

It took a little more time to re-make the maps than I thought. Anyway the spotbeam maps are now located at:

http://wvjw.info/dbs-beam/

Scott & Tony, If you guys wish you may mirror the site.


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## Ronster (Apr 24, 2002)

This map and explanation below map looks like NYC is going to get the additional locals on E*8 that are now on the 61.5 location.
Is this true?? I sure hope so, I really dont want to do the second dish.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

It depends on what E* does. E* has been known to turn around and do something completely different than what they filed with the FCC.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ronster _
> *This map and explanation below map looks like NYC is going to get the additional locals on E*8 that are now on the 61.5 location.
> Is this true?? I sure hope so, I really dont want to do the second dish. *


It depends on what space is available on the spots. If E* could put the primary stations of another market on the main satellite by keeping the secondary stations of the NY or other markets on the wings, E* would probably opt to keep them on the wings. There are 8 NYC stations on wings at this time... that is enough for 2 DMAs worth of ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX.

They have to have a formula somewhere that tells them it is better to put a second dish for those that ask vs revenue generated by putting another market up. I bet over 95% of the market will never ask for a secondary dish.


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Does anybody know if transponders 13 and 14 are operating at full power at the moment? Also does anyone know if it is possible for Echostar to adjust the antennas to make changes to the footprint now the satellite is at its location?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Bryan, I've mirrored your page on the EKB on DBS Talk and have a copy on my hard drive just in case. I have pointers to it from Swiki and the EKB on DBS Talk and a clear link back to the original on the page (297). Let me know if you wish your name or anything else on the page.

Thanks! The JPGs look great!

See ya
Tony


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

Tonight I think E* may have moved transponders 1 and 3 over to the new satellite. May signal strength has gone from around 80 to around 105 on those two transponders. They are also definitely doing something to transponder 16, as it's signal strength is currently bouncing up and down wildly. 108, 80, 22, 0, 52. It's all over the place and the receiver won't lock on that transponder.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

At about 4am I was gettin a mid 90s readin on transponder 1, but my receiver wouldn't get any channels on that transponder (Encore/Starz). I would get the "lost sinal screen". I also noticed TP 16 bouncing all ovet the place.

See ya
Tony


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Tony, I had the same problem on the DISHPlayer only. It just started working, now.

Tps. 1, 3, 16 and 19 have moved to EchoStar 8 as per the schedule.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2002)

So if they're moving transponders to E*8, when are they going to double-power the E*5 TPs since they have the power to 2x one E*5 TP for each TP going to E*8?


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2002)

Does anybody have a schedule for the remaining traponder moves to E8?


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Is their no TN or GA beam? Is Nashville and all Atlanta locals remaining on National beam? I was hoping that Chattanooga locals would have a outside shot at being squeezed in on either a Atlanta or Nashville Spot. I guess this means that the only chance for getting Chattanooga locals on E*is either on National beam (highly unlikely) or Charlie can make enough additional concessions to get merger approved (also uphill battle)  .


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## btbrossard (Oct 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chris Freeland _
> *Is their no TN or GA beam? Is Nashville and all Atlanta locals remaining on National beam? I was hoping that Chattanooga locals would have a outside shot at being squeezed in on either a Atlanta or Nashville Spot. I guess this means that the only chance for getting Chattanooga locals on E*is either on National beam (highly unlikely) or Charlie can make enough additional concessions to get merger approved (also uphill battle)  . *


According to the nice maps that *bryan27* made a link to further up this thread, both the Nashville and Atlanta markets will remain on CONUS beams.

At least for Atlanta, this makes sense. Atlanta stations (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX) are Distant Broadcast Networks and are viewed by subs all over the country.

I wish you luck on getting Chattanooga locals from E*. You never know what you might get from Charlie.

/Benjamin


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

I think transponders 1,3,13,14,16 and 19 are now active on E*VIII.

Here are my latest readings:

1 - 85
3 - 82
4 - 51
5 - 51
8 - 54
9 - 49
12 - 67
13 - 77
14 - 82
16 -78
17 - 42
19 - 81
20 - 44
21 - 40
24 - 41

I seem to remember that someone posted a schedule for the changeover but can't find the post, does anyone know where we go from here? It would be nice to see E*V go to double power to bring in some of those transponders that I don't get a usable signal on!


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

In Northern California, I'm now getting:

1 - 112
3 - 107
13 - 110
14 - 103
16 - 106
19 - 111


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Thank's Tony, if you feel like putting my name on it you can. It doesn't matter to me. I tried to make the JPGs larger and more detailed than on the old site, but keep them at a resonable size.

Chris, there is no beam for Atlanta, Nashville, or Minneapolis. In addition Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, & Cleveland have a 1 TP spot. There is no way these three cities will fit on 1 TP :shrug:

There was a rumor some time ago that E* would offer more distant locals to white areas after the spots were activated. I would predict that Nashville, Minneapolis, Cleveland, and/or Pittsburgh will be offered as distants.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Thanks Bryan, thats why you are out Spot Beam Guru. 

It seems to me that DirecTV knows how to build better spot beam satellites then Echostar.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't know about better - they just had a different set of priorities / design goals.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I hope that DirectTV changes the transponder frequencies of D-7s so that it could work in the same slot as D-4s, like E* did with E7 and E8. The only real downside of it would be that 8 spot frequencies would take up 8 of the 11 frequencies that D* has at 119. If they could turn on CONUS or spot for each of the 8, they could have a lot of flexibility.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Look at the map of Spots on DirecTV and the number of cities they serve with just ONE satellitte!

I would say that the two Dish Spot Beam Satellites be called Spot Beam Lite satellites.


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Looks as if transponder 21 has either gone to double power on E*V or has transferred to E*VIII, signal level has gone from 40 to 70. I think it is possible it is still on E*V as the signal level is noticably lower than the transponders that have moved to E*VIII.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Tp 21 has switched to E*8. The signal here is higher than any other Tp from 110.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Mike, I would gather that adding anything more to DTV-7S would have made it too expensive. I think we should be glad that it will work at 119 and work at 101 as a back-up.

Scott, you said what I was thinking last night, but didn't want to say it  E* concentrated way too much on 100% redundancy. If E* keeps the plan as is with all this backup space they can only carry 52 cities, without using tons of space as backup about 62 cities can be squeezed in. D* on the other hand can carry 78 cities with a minimum amount of backup, and could probably squeeze in about 10 more very small 3-4 channel cities. E*s plan now is probably something like 'We have room for 1 channel on spot #16, so we are going to add the Presque-Isle Market.'

I would say that E* paid the price for being the first to order, and the first to file the sats. D* could have seen the FCC file and said 'We'll build better ones'


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## jquaglino (Sep 18, 2002)

Bryan, by your calculations how many transponders on EVIII will be available after the move to spots.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

There will be 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs on E-8. E-7 has 16 CONUS Transponders & 24 Spot Beam TPs. Combined E* has 30 CONUS TPs and 30 Spot Beam TPs at 110 & 119.

Just for comparison D* at 101 has 26 CONUS Transponders and 43 Spot Beam TPs. At 119 D* will have 5 CONUS TPs and 40 Spot Beam TPs. Combined with 110 D* will have 34 CONUS TPs and 83 Spot Beam TPs.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

I would believe E will have 40 conus and 50 spotbeam Tps.

Breakdown:
Echostar 7 has 16 conus and 25 Spotbeam Tps.
Echostar 8 has 16 conus and 25 spotbeam Tps.
EchoStar 5 will provide the remaining 8 conus Tps at 110.
One spotbeam on EchoStar 7 is aimed at Mexico City. All other spotbeams are aimed at the USA or it's territories.

Both E* 7 and E*8 were originally announced to have 25 spotbeam Tps each. It seems that E*8 may have one more than that now. We shall see.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

John, How do you know its NOT going to be 24 transponders all from E*8 as Bryan says (8 at double power mode and 16 not)instead of 16 at double from E*8 and 8 at double from E*5?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't know that. The question is: Does EchoStar 8 make more signal in single power mode than EchoStar 5 does in double power mode? If it does not, then there is no reason to have 16 single powered Tps up there when all could be double powered.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

John, 

I agree with you in the sense of signal. But, I wanted to know if what you posted was official or something you deduced.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

I was surprised when the transition schedule posted somewhere turned out to be "official", so far. That is more "official" info than we have received in all of the satellite transitions at EchoStar. The most official we usually get is on our signal strength readings. The we guess. Oh my, such signal could only come from a certain event.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

True. Funny thing is that I have been looking for that post to find out who posted it and ask him/her for any new information. But the post has vanished  That post was RIGHT ON in its schedule of how things were going to happen.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Okay, So I wasn't seeing things. I've been looking like crazy for that post here. I think I'd better start saving pages I MAY need in the future to my hard drive! 

See ya
Tony


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Tony, its even worse than you think. I copied and pasted that post in another dishnetwork forum. It disappeared from there too! 
I don't understand.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Maybe it was proprietary information and Dish asked for it to be removed...


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Perhaps I should rephrase. In the US E*s 110 location will have 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs. The "extra" TP is beam number 16 on the E8 map and was added in an amendment. Of course we know that all spot beams at 110 will come from E8. Indications show that 16 CONUS TPs will come from E8 and the remaining 8 from E5. But as John said, we shall see.

Sorry about the mix up I typed 30 instead of 50. I had spotbeams on my mind. Combined 110 & 119 will have 50 spotbeam TPs on 30 spotbeams serving the US. E* only has 29 frequencies at 110, and 21 frequencies at 119. 29-5=24 21-5=16 16+24=30 thus, E* has 30 CONUS TPs.

So for comparison sake (serving the US):

Echostar-30 CONUS TPs, 50 Spotbeam TPs, 30 Spotbeams.

DirecTV-34 Conus TPs, 83 Spotbeam TPs, 53 Spotbeams.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bryan27 _
> *Perhaps I should rephrase. In the US E*s 110 location will have 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs. The "extra" TP is beam number 16 on the E8 map and was added in an amendment. Of course we know that all spot beams at 110 will come from E8. Indications show that 16 CONUS TPs will come from E8 and the remaining 8 from E5. But as John said, we shall see.
> 
> Sorry about the mix up I typed 30 instead of 50. I had spotbeams on my mind. Combined 110 & 119 will have 50 spotbeam TPs on 30 spotbeams serving the US. E* only has 29 frequencies at 110, and 21 frequencies at 119. 29-5=24 21-5=16 16+24=30 thus, E* has 30 CONUS TPs.
> ...


What you really meant to say is:

Echostar-40 CONUS TPs, 50 Spotbeams TPs, 30 Spotbeams

DirectTV-38 CONUS TPs, 83 Spotbeam TPs, 53 Spotbeams

Echostar will still have 2 more CONUS transponder frequencies not in spots than DirectTV has. E* has 50 CONUS and D* has 46 to start with, E* put 10 in spots, and D* put 8 in spots (cannot turn on some on 119 because they are in E*'s frequencies, so 6 on 101 (4,12,18,20,26,28), 2 on 119 (26, 28), and none on 110).


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

I suspect that E*VIII is not at double power at present because signal readings are noticably lower than those from E*VII. This of course could also be because the footprint is not quite the same and I am right on the edge of the footprint. Any comment?


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Doh, I forgot to carry the 1!!!! Someone kick me!

Yes E* would have 40 CONUS TPs.

D* still would have 34 CONUS TPs. The 3 at 110, 26 at 101, and 5 at 119. While at 119 the DTV-7s configuration will still use 6 frequencies for spotbeams. 26 & 28, and 4 more that I don't have information for yet(if I had to guess EVEN would be spots and ODD conus). When used as back-up at 101 the configuration is spots on 4,12,18,20,26,&28. 

5TPs CONUS at 119 is enough room for the 30 National Channels, the 1 HDTV channel, and Locals for Norfolk (there is no beam for it), and the addition of another HDTV channel, and another set of locals. Of course 119 is currently jam packed without DTV-7s up there.

That is what the two configuration mode for DTV-7s is. At 119 the spots use 1 set of frequencies, and at 101 the spots use the same frequencies as DTV-4s.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Well, I don't know about proprietary information. I know that when the satellite was launched Dish did make a BIG DEAL out of it. So, it would seem logical that they would keep their customers updated on this situation. But, of course, that would only be if it was customers the company cared for. Obviously, stock holders only care how many satellites the company has, not how they are used.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I do not understand the wierd frequencies picked by D* for their satellites. Beyond the fact that they are all even it does not make sense. They shuffle around the channels all the time anyways. It would have made 100x more sense to use 22-32 even on D-7s for 119 and 21-31 odd on D-4s at 101. That way they could be used in the same slot at 101 if they wanted like E7/E8. Hope they pick 6 different frequencies from 22-32 that D-4s does not use.

They need to think about the future. Someday they are going to want to put up a different satellite and having maximum flexibility of the satellites they have in orbit could be important.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by johnsmith22 _
> *I suspect that E*VIII is not at double power at present because signal readings are noticably lower than those from E*VII. This of course could also be because the footprint is not quite the same and I am right on the edge of the footprint. Any comment? *


Footprint.

In Northern California, E*8 transponders are reading higher than E*5 double-power transponders.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Here are my readings:

- On 10/7 from 300 - 500am ET, transponders 13 & 14 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8.

10/2: 55 on 13, 86 on 14
10/12: 89 on 13, 98-100 on 14

- On 10/9, transponders 1,3,16,19 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8

10/2: 56 on 1, 65 on 3, 63 on 16, 65 on 19
10/12: 93 on 1, 88 on 3, 103-104 on 16, 95 on 19

- On 10/10, transponder 21 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8

10/2: 56 on 21
10/12: 97 on 21


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Does anyone know where the schedule goes from here. I seem to recall from the message that has disappeared that they will begin to fire up spotbeams tomorrow. I assume once that is done they will sort out the other transponders that are very weak and difficult to lock down here in PR and the islands.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

From the moving that took place last week, one would be inclined to think that they'll finish with the basic cable/PPV/Spanish this week, which means transferring transmission of transponders 22 to 31 to E*8. But the message did not say this, it ended with transponder 21 being moved and said that spots would light up during the week of the 14th.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

It looks like the spotbeams on E*8 have been activated as of 10/14. Here in Southern NJ I have reading of ~120 on trans. 2 and 10, ~95 on 8, and no signal on 4 and 6. This doesn't quite line up with what I expected based on Bryan's spot beam maps, so either Echostar is still in transition mode for these or they've made additional changes to their E*8 spotbeam "strategy".


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

If they do the E7 strategy with E8 they will have transponders 1-21 on E8 (with 2,4,6,8,10 being spots) and 22-32 left on E5. I believe they only have the capacity for 16 CONUS transponders being double powered on E8. This will leave E5 with 8 transponders which it can double power.

When they did E7 they did not light up a transponder in a spot until they were ready to put channels on it. So, if they turned on T2 in the NE spot and filled it up, rest will remain dark until they are ready to uplink to them.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Hey Nashville, what Tp are your locals on Now?

Tp 2 currently has Conus stuff on it. Maybe double powered.

Tp 10 is Philadelphia. May be on a spot. Have not checked to see what the signal charistics are here, yet.

Have not found Colorado Springs. Maybe turned on any time. They are showing up on TitanTV.com


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

They have removed the names of the satellites from the signal strength screen.

It now just says "EchoStar 110W" on each transponder.

Transponder 2 doesn't seem much different (78 signal strength), but 4 and 6 are now off out here.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Nashville and Colorado Springs are the only ones which do not appear to be on Conus anymore.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Mike123abc, I don't think that Dish leaving transponders 1-21 on E*7 at 119W is a strategy. It probably has to do with the fact that that's all the transponders they have at 119W. 

I would really like to know what Dish plans for 110W. But the fact is that with the locals (non Dishnets) moving to Spots on E*8, what is left (that being basic cable/premium cable/ppv/spanish) Dish will only use up 15 Conus transponders. Leaving them with one empty transponder at E*8 in double-power mode, and E*5 unused with 8 possible transponders free.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well the reason it works out to 21 transponders is that there are 32 CONUS transponders on E7, but they run 16 instead of 32 so they can use double power on the 16. Then they use 5 transponder frequencies in the spot beams. 16+5 = 21. This also happens to be the licenses that they have at 119. I would speculate that this is the reason they designed E7 to have 5 spot freqencies because it just works nice with the 16 CONUS double power ones. E8 is essentially the same satellite as E7 (just has the spots pointed to different areas of the country and using even instead of odd transponders in the spots).



This is just the sort of satellite system I can see being designed by a marketing committee. At least they changed E8 at the last minute so that it could work with E7 in the same orbital slot in case they decided to in the future (provided they come up with a third uplink facility, hmm maybe that PanAmSat buy will not be so bad with 5 new uplink centers...)


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

It is rather obivious that TPs 4 & 6 have been turned off pending spotbeam activation.

jrbdmb, when E-7 was activated it took weeks before all the spots were turned on. When all is said and done you should get a strong signal on 2,4,6,10.

BTW is anyone receiving a signal on TPs 4 & 6?


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## hockeynut (Oct 8, 2002)

Any idea what transponder on E8 will be used for NHL Center Ice?


Antonio


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## btbrossard (Oct 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bryan27 _
> *BTW is anyone receiving a signal on TPs 4 & 6? *


In the Milwaukee (WI) area, I am getting a signal off of transponder 6, however no signal off of 4.

The signal strength is only at 100. The spot beams from 119 are all at 125.

In the "point dish/signal" menu, when I click on 110 transponder 6, the text goes from "transponder" to "spot beam." This is the only transponder from 110 to do this so far.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hockeynut _
> *Any idea what transponder on E8 will be used for NHL Center Ice?
> 
> Antonio *


NHL Center Ice channels 540 to 547 are now coming from transponder 24.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Apparently, you can forget about the comment which indicated Nashville is on Spotbeam. It appears DISH Network is transmitting misleading IDs on Tp 15. However it would appear as though Albuquergue has to be on a spotbeam if the aforementioned is correct.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Hi all...

Spot beams are strange on 110° Monday, 14....

104 signal (best I've ever seen from any TP EVER!) tp 6.
0 signal on tp 4

This is in Cincinnati

See ya
Tony


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

Transponders 4 & 6 have either went to spot beams or are in the process because my signal on those transponders yesterday was in the mid 80's and today there 0


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

4 and 6 are both Spot Beam now...


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

Looks like TP 2 & 5 have gone to spotbeam on E8 and TP 9 has switched to E8

*MORE POWER er, er, er*


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Tony, that's very interesting. You must be picking up spotbeam #11.

Here are my readings this morning (10/15)

0 signal on 2,4,5,6. TP5 must have been cleared and the locals on TP5 moved to spots.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

My guess is Orlando and Tampa/St. Pete went to spotbeam


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Transponder 9 is now being transmitted by E*8, channels that were carried by transponder 24 are now being carried by transponder 9.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Those channels on Tp 9 made a temporary stop on Tp 2 yesterday when they left Tp 24.

8 of the NHL Center Ice channels are on Tp 24 now.


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## bolco (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm in Pittsburgh and getting a 73 on T8. That (from what I read) is our spotbeam. Most of the odd 110 T's are above 100 for me. Seems somewhat disappointing (so far)


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

bolco, T8 is still conus from E*5 in single power mode, apparently. It has Minneapolis/St. Paul on it.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I've been wondering about 8, I'm seeing what appears to be some sort of bleed-over from KCTV on vpid==4386 and apid==4387. seems to be related to weather, is available at night but is broken and it took me several hours to ID it last night. It is FTA.
12282 is now empty, but still transmitting DVB keep info. There may be hidden pids in use that are not showing up in the PAT.
and where did Nashville go to again? My records show it's on 6, and that's definitely NOT conus here.
But the NIT should say which sat they're on, that's rediculous to have to keep logs so you know what moved. I'd be looking to see SAC and ABQ drop off the map soon based on the recent channel moves.
Out of curiosity, what happens when a channel is moved? How noticable to the end user is it? Does the receiver switch to the new transponder for you or does it make you tune to a channel again? Maybe when TP8 goes to VIII this KCTV thing will get sorted out. All the rest of the channels are fine with solid data, with the exception of these PIDS. They're not allocated on this transponder. odd.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

Until this week the Kansas City ABC and CBS channels were hiding FTA on transponder 8, and they were actually working. This week they're all broken. I don't have an FTA receiver, but was able to find them by tuning to a channel on the 119 satellite and making the SW-21 change to the 110 satellite by jiggling the cable at the wall plate. Other hidden FTA channels I've found are the Nashville NBC on transponder 10 (PID 6434/6435 from lyngsat.com) and WOTF Orlando on transponder 11 (PID 6178/6179), which is supposed to be on 61.5°


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Well that is where it used to live, before the last set of moves in July. But now this channel is a bit flaky and does not seem to have a solid lock. I wonder if it has something to do with the QOS for bandwidth. They've got the bandwidth for it, because only PHL is on that transponder. Maybe the encoder is overworked? but now that it is discovered it will disappear.
I don't see where on lyngsat you are seeing WSMV on TP 10. I'm seeing spotty service but it's nowhere near as annoying as KCTV. I just stopped there because I discovered it by accident.
WOW! now THAT's timely! as I type, I have lost signal on TP 10. Maybe TP 10 is now moving?

UPDATE: it seems the tp10 content has moved to tp6. and it is beautiful too, no spotty signal any more. The VIII transponders are stunning over here, radical improvements over the V stuff.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

Now it seems that transponders 8 and 10 have been turned off for spot beam use.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

WSMV was not listed on lyngsat.com since it was well hidden. I gave the PID numbers for channel 9411 from 119° as that was the channel I had to use to access WSMV. (Tune to 9411, jiggle cable to make the SW-21 change satellites, see WSMV on the screen as it was on the same transponder with the same PIDs).


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

yes, we've moved PHL to tp 6 and lost MSP.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yes, Philadelphia is on Tp 6 Spotbeam, now. Minor rain fade situation here. Tp 18 reads 78, but Tp 6 reads 108.

Minneapolis/St. Paul has gone to some spotbeam, apparently.

Tps. 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 now only on spotbeams.

Tp 5 on, but only ID(no channels). Signal level indicates double power. Need info from other E*8 locations to determine if it is on E*8 or E*5.


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## RickD (Apr 23, 2002)

Does anybody know what's going to happen to transponders 22 - 31? Here in the US Virgin Islands I am using a 4' dish and was hoping that signal strength would improve on these transponders. Most of my signals are "0".


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

They may double power them after some of the dust settles, but I expect they will remain on EchoStar 5.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

John, Thanks for the info. I figured the Phily beam was activated since I was now getting a signal of 54 on TP6. I just couldn't figure out which city was on there.

It will be interesting to see what signal I get when our beam is activated, we don't have a beam on 119 to compare with


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## voyagerbob (Jul 14, 2002)

Let me say this is odd. Traveling in the RV down here in Florida. Have my Receiver hooked up and can't get the Nashville Channels anymore. Screen says "Unable to view this channel outside of the designated viewing area" I don't know if this is becuase the signal is on spot beam or not. I don't really care about this problem.

But my problem is that it also says this on other channels as well. Such as FX. If I hit guide the picture comes in on FX. So I get the PIP of the show and the rest of the guide. I do this on the Nashville Channels and I get a black screen. When I hit cancel while tuned to FX and try to go back to the full screen I again get the message "Unable to view this channel outside of the designated viewing area". So basically have to watch TV in guide mode. This sucks. Hopefully this will correct itself when I get back to TN. 

Assuming the Nashville Locals are not spotbeam, the only thing I can think of to explain this is that they are sending out signals on each spotbeam (Tampa for example) to kill all distant channels that the spotbeam can reach that are not supposed to be there. (IF that makes sense to anyone). Anyone have any thoughts.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Johnh, transponder 5 is now on E*8. And, I hope you are wrong about transponders 22 to 31. 

Not that I care about transps. 22 to 31, if the programming carried by those transponders is moved to Conus transponders on E*8. Like it happened with transp. 24 on E*5 and transp. 9 on E*8.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Yes - i can confirm that Philadelphia and Minneapolis went to Spot beam now apperently ( phily - tp 6 at 110, and Minneapolis - tp 8 at 110 )


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## bolco (Jun 11, 2002)

Here in Pittsburgh, this is a sampling of what my 508 is showing TODAY...
(s=spot t=transponder)
-----------------------------
**119 Satellite**
s01 58
t02 121
s03 56
t04 117
-05 zero
t06 111
-07 zero
t08 120
-09 zero
t10 118
t11 116
t12 122
------------------------
**110 satellite**
t01 94
-02 zero
t03 91
-04 zero
t05 88
s06 81
t07 70
-08 zero
t09 93
-10 zero
t11 67
t12 102


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Transponders 5 and 9 appear to now have moved to E*VIII judging by signal levels.

CONUS programming is now appearing on transponder 9, National Geographic, Fox Sports and Latin channels are there. I forget where they were before but it was one of the higher numbertransponders.

I hope this means that conus programming is now moving down to the transponders vacated as the locals move to spotbeams.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Out of curiosity have any side satellite locals (61.5 or 148) gone to 110?


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

LyngSat 110 page was changed yesterday to reflect the presence of EchoStar 8 .


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Geronimo... the answer is no. I wouldn't expect too many channels to move from the wing slots unless they prove to be popular channels (and costing Dish too much) to keep on the side slots.

See ya
Tony


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Because I wanted to find out what happened to Nashville, I hacked together a program that parses the SDT entries. It does indeed appear that Nashville is on network id 4102, transport stream 246. Following E* symantics, the 2xx transport ids are from 110, 4 must be the beam designation in some way, 6 the transponder number, AKA 12297&&LHCP. If they're working, they're on a spot.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

Right now at 12:35am PDT, transponders 7, 11, and 15 have gone dark. This would affect locals for Sacramento (7), San Antonio (11) and Albuquerque (15).


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yes, we could use some locals transponder info from subscribers in Sacramento, San Antonio and Albuquerque.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Thank you Tony. You are always very helpful. This is just one of thsose thing s where many people assumned a given answer. I was just curious.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2002)

Spotbeam tp6 with the ABQ locals is coming in at 55 here in west Tx. near the NM border. Spotbeam tp2 is coming in at 89. Both of these tp's had been dark since last week.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks Geronimo.

New development from last night...looks like KTEL in the Albuquerque locals block moved from 148° to the spot beams. At least KTEL disappeared from 148° last night anyway.

-----------------
Just looked at the Dish Network web page and KTEL is no longer listed as an available channel in Albuquerque. I wonder if this channel was dropped due to lack of signal or what?

See ya
Tony


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## PeterB (Jul 25, 2002)

No the station went off the air so they could concentrate on making compilation records from the 70s.


Just kidding.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2002)

Tony, I have the Albuquerque locals and KTEL was dropped a couple of months ago. I am not sure of the exact date but it has been gone at least since sometime in August. 
KB


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I will check tonight for Sacramento.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

It appears that KMAX and other SAC programming has been moved to TP 8, TSID 248. That,of course, is not raisable from my location. But something else is odd. TP 6, the one that contains PHL locals, is substantially weaker today than it was yesterday. I don't know whether this is atmospherics or them playing with the power output on the transponder. I am getting severe pixilation on FTA signal.
I would post signal numbers, but the scale I am using is different than yours and wouldn't be useful.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

jhall, must be something wrong on your end or you might be on the fringe of the beam and it is moving slightly. Signal on The DISH Netwoprk receiver is about 108 most of the time. Signal on the FTA 88 out of 93. Very good.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

yes, signal strength is fine now.

using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0'
status 1f | signal e5fe | snr fbe2 | ber 00000a00 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e4c0 | snr fcf0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e4c1 | snr fcdb | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e5fc | snr fcf6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e4c0 | snr fcea | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e5fe | snr fccc | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e4c0 | snr fced | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e600 | snr fce7 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal e600 | snr fcfc | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

This is out of FFFF. These numbers look remarkably good. Curious to understand how the receiver puts both the signal and signal to noise ratio into a single number and that is somehow out of 125%.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

Transponders 7,11, and 15 have come back on again late today. Their signal strength numbers suggest they are coming from Echostar 8 now.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Here is the latest status:

02-No signal
04-No signal
06-No signal
08-125
10-No signal

8630-KXTV- Spotbeam 8
8631-KOVR- Spotbeam 8
8632-KCRA- Spotbeam 8
8633-KTXL- Spotbeam 8
8634-KQCA- Spotbeam 8
8635-KMAX- Spotbeam 8
8636-KVIE- Spotbeam 8
8638-KUVS- 148/Transponder 6 (Sorry Amigos)


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## LadyTalia (Oct 4, 2002)

[No message]


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Your info about Philadelphia is incorrect. It went to T6.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

It appears in today's update, I lost SAC, ABQ, DET, and CIN, as well as several channels from AT150 including Style, GAC, and Hallmark. Maybe these have moved to 119--I didn't pick up changes on 119 yet, have been focusing on 110. Why move around CONUS programming?
oh and all the NHL channels ran away too, all but maybe one. but my receiver knows about them -- hmmm. oh what is SA? (as in SA-N, 753? oh San Antonio
oh and this is odd, WADL is left out of the detroit block, WCWB, WNPA, and WQED (PIT) are removed, and a BTV.
It's almost as if my scan totally missed a transponder or something


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Jhall... I'm a little confused. All these channels appear to be where they have been . Cincinnati is still at 110° ConUS tp 18 as of 2:16 am edt 10/19. 

See ya
Tony


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I know, I'm quite perplexed. I haven't seen it before. At the conclusion of the proggie I'm watching, I'll investigate again--perhaps it didn't lock to a transponder during the scan, perhaps they were bouncing, who knows. I'm not meaning to provide false information.
It turns out the scan was unable to lock to 22, 23, or 24. The SDT version was 24 before, this scan was 27, so perhaps things were a little in flux when I took the scan the first time. The CONUS channels appeared again, so did CIN and DET, as well as the missing PIT channels.


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Just for the record Conus transponders 1 3 5 7 9 11 12 13 14 15 16 19 21 are all showing signal levels that indicate they are either on E*VIII or E*V at double power, the remainder still seem to be on E*V as before.


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## PeterB (Jul 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by LadyTalia _
> *
> Also- locals to be added later this fall/winter
> Las Vegas, NV Chico, CA
> ...


Still no Hartford, but Buffalo, and NV cities DTV has up as well.

I guess charlie doesnt care about us here, and were returning the favor by adding record numbers of DTV subs, and discconnecting numerous Dish subs.

Dish is done in Hartford.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I agree with you Peter.

I think I may have a 721, 6000 and 2 Dish Players for sale soon.

Charlies loss.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

oh-oh - Strong words there Scott ( right from Administrator's mouth  ) - do not go! - Stay with us Dish's PPL


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Why should people stay with Dish if they don't offer Locals that DirecTV does? HDTV is nice, but I'd rather have locals on my PVR than HDTV (don't ask me this question while watching sports on HDNet)...


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

Where's Baltimore, Memphis, Columbus, Milwaukee, and Hartford? What is Dish smoking?! They are missing a huge potential customer base.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Locals could be be "gotten" with Antenna though - and for Free often too? No? (as was mentioned by Jim at one of retailers chat)

The money one can safe on Locals - can go towards putting nice antenna 
lol
Do not "bite my head off" - just a suggestion on a light note (combined with a joke)


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

We might see Baltimore because the CBS is an O&O, but there might be problems with proximity to Washington.
All the Northern Virginia cable companies carry MPT, for example, because MPT is a good public television service. Both MPT and WETA are nationally recognized, and so I don't know how they'd resolve that.
My understanding was that a station wishing must carry had to apply by DEC of last year. In the channel lineup, I saw that WFPT both had appeared in the PAT on whatever the transponder for Washington on 61.5 was and it appeared on their web page, along with WJAL and some others. At that time, I concluded it was a ploy on Maryland's part to get MPT into the Washington locals. Concurrently to that, I saw allocations of 8370 - 8376, or was it 8730 and 8736, I can't recall, I think it was 8370 - 8376 for Baltimore. Anyway, those disappeared from from zap2it, WFPT was removed form the PAT on the 61.5 transponder, and dish absolutely has no words for me on the subject. (it's not in their computer, therefore nobody must be discussing it at all) During that time, I had spoken to a MPT representative to determine when WFPT would be on E*. They said by end of April, but they were shooting for end of March. But sadly it never happened, and a discussion with them resulted in them saying they had no words on
whether they would be added to E* or not, probably that they wouldn't, but when pressed indicated there might be an outside chance.
I'd like to know if somebody could look to see if WFPT actually filed for must carry and if E* is trying to get out of it. And if they didn't, they're stupid because it would be a freeby to reach the E* subscribers. My understanding is that WFPT is a station of itself, not classified a repeater and thus would apply for must carry. They are transmitting in Frederick to reach the Washington and Northern Virginia community, although they don't seem to hit VA very well.
Thoughts welcome. I like to watch some specific programming from them and don't like to pay for basic limited cable just to pull them in. Their signal on the cable is spotty at best because of the distance and they're pulling them in at the head end with analog. Dropping my cable subscription would be a HUGE win for me. (locals are what 5 dollars and cable is 17) and the home owners association won't let me put any antenna up of any kind on my roof; the exception being a satellite dish. I've got a farm up there, I guess it's only a matter of time before they start whining. My MPT discussion most recently happened this month.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Darkman _
> *Locals could be be "gotten" with Antenna though - and for Free often too? No? (as was mentioned by Jim at one of retailers chat)*


True, but try recording a local channel on a PVR with OTH? You can't. I can't imagine not having locals off the satellite. I'm never able to watch most of my shows on CBS, ABC, FOX and NBC so without PVR support. I'd be on cable with a SA TiVo without LIL. If you could record OTH locals, then I would agree with you. See my point?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Jhall - your HOA is WRONG - see my sig


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

right, so this clause prohibits me for installing an antenna to reach WMPT, Annapolis.
Q: I want a conventional "stick" antenna to receive a distant over-the
air television signal. Does the rule apply to me?

A: No. The rule does not apply to television antennas used to receive
a distant signal.

Depending on the definition of distant signal, WMPT definitely applies. Although WFPT may be in my market, it is equally difficult a catch and would preclude Washington locals because of the direction. Anappolis provides a better catch because it is direction-wise closer than Frederick. The rule does not seem to speak at all about multiple antennae, nor does it speak about an antenna designed to receive services from multiple providers. If, for example, I install a 1m antenna on my roof for the purposes of receiving FTA signals, I am not sure it is acceptable for the rule.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

There are NO size restrictions for the OTA antenna - the 1M size (any size in Alaska) is ONLY for DBS dishes. There is also NOTHING saying that you can't use a rotator, or multiple antennas pointed in different directions (although, for technical reasons I would recommend the rotator over joining multiple antennas). The key words here are LOCAL TV BROADCASTS - so you could legitimately argue that ANY station within 60-70 miles (the radio horizon, essentially) of your location qualifies as local for OTA reception, no matter which direction you must point in to get it.

C-Band / Ku-band (satellite that is not DBS) is NOT covered by this rule, so far as I can determine.

Keep in mind that most HOA covenants were written pre-1995 (when this came out), or the drafters were not aware of this and just copied a standard "boilerplate" of another development, without really going through it and seeing if they needed updating. You should also press the issue through the HOA to update their covenants with respect to this (and you have federal law on your side). And if someone throws up the the "we have cable" arguement - this rule was put out specifically to PREVENT cable as the only means to get TV.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

The annapolis satation is much easier to receive in VA than the Frederik one. Frederick may be in the DMA but antennas dont seem to respect that.

I always thought all MPT stations have identical programming. I could be wrong.

I have been told that DISH does not HAVE to show MPT since they already have 3 public stations. DTV does carry it but perhaps because they must show it in Baltimore.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

yes, the MPT stations all show the same programming. They may argue that one PBS station is as good as another, but try to get WETA to show red dwarf, doctor who, or outdoors maryland. I was hoping that WFPT is in the DC market and would qualify as a low-powered station that makes the criteria for must carry, unless MPT wants to charge E* for the privilege of carrying their programming. It's kinda like a internet peering contract, you don't know who is the customer.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Low-power TV stations DO NOT qualify for Must Carry on DBS. Also- the rules on NCE (PBS and some other educational / non-commercial) stations Must Carry are a bit more involved than you just stated. Suffice to say that MPT wasn't among the first 3 for the DC area and/or their programming was substantially duplicated on the other NCE's.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

so the short of this is you don't think we will see MPT on E* in the future? I do not pretend to understand the laws, I am only going by memory from watching the debates on c-span. If MPT isn't in the first three, who are they? WETA, WUTP, and who? WNVC and WNVT, although they may be classified PBS stations, definitely do not show PBS programming, at least not that I've seen.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Note - there is a distinction between PBS and NCE - PBS is a subset of NCE. The rules are that the DBS providers only have to Must Carry the first 3 NCE stations, any more after that the station must offer a substantially different programming schedule from those already carried. 

In short, you probably won't get MPT on E* unless E* starts offering Baltimore.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

> C-Band / Ku-band (satellite that is not DBS) is NOT covered by this rule, so far as I can determine.


It is any dish of 1m or less. Ku-Band which uses 1m or less dishes would certainly qualify. C-Band on a 1m dish isn't likely.



> Low-power TV stations DO NOT qualify for Must Carry on DBS.


The only exception is if the LPTV is a translator, and the main station uses the translator as a way to get the signal to the POP.



> PBS is a subset of NCE.


I quess it could be phrased that way  PBS is a program distrubution service providing programs to member stations through an interconnected service.

Not all NCE stations "subscribe" to the PBS service. The largest competitor to PBS is APT http://www.aptonline.org/ there is also the smaller Annenburg which is instructional programming.

WNVC and WNVT will never have PBS programs. Why? They run their own competing "network" called MHz Networks.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Thanks for your comments - 
As a Compueter Science major from college, I tend to think in mathematical terms, and that "explanation" fit closest to what I was trying to say.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

pittsburghs spot any time in next day or so!


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Echo-8 spotbeam map has been updated with information from the FCC file on the satellite. A few of the beams in the old map had their beam centers off by as much as 75 miles. The updated map uses 50watts (the maximum spot power) instead of 45watts that the old map used, which greatly increases the -5dB contour. After looking at the map it now is aparent that both DTV-4S and Echo-8 were constructed by the same manufacturer.

http://wvjw.info/dbs-beam/

The only thing I haven't but on the map that is on all the others are the TPs used on the beams as they are different than those on the application. This will be added when all the beams are activated.


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## btbrossard (Oct 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by PeterB _
> *
> 
> Still no Hartford, but Buffalo, and NV cities DTV has up as well.
> ...


The same goes for Milwaukee, WI. I guess Charlie doesn't want the $1,200+ dollars a year I spend on DBS service.

DirecTV offers locals in Milwaukee and I will soon be a DirecTV subscriber.

/Benjamin


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Looks like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit and Austin have gone to spots this morning.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2002)

Here at 5:40a EDT, 30mi east of Toledo, OH, DP501, DP Twin:

110W
01 -- 117
02 -- 125 MAX
03 -- 111
04 -- ZERO
05 -- 114
06 -- 59
07 -- 110
08 -- 125 MAX
09 -- 111
10 -- 125 MAX
11 -- 111
12 -- ZERO
13 -- 111
14 -- 117
15 -- 111
16 -- 116
17 -- ZERO
18 -- ZERO
19 -- 115
20 -- ZERO
21 -- 113
22 -- 95
23 -- 88
24 -- 100
25 -- 88
26 -- 94
27 -- 87
29 -- 89
31 -- 91

119W for comparison
01 -- 44
02 -- 119
03 -- 41 (not locked)
04 -- 117
05 -- 120
06 -- 106
07 -- 117
08 -- 121
09 -- ZERO
10 -- 117
11 -- 121
12 -- 120
13 -- 114
14 -- 119
15 -- 111
16 -- 100 *
17 -- 120
18 -- 121
19 -- 117
20 -- 116
21 -- 120

* 119W TP 16 is weird -- sometimes it reads ~75, if you move up or down a few transponders and go back, it reads 100 or 111


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

They must be very close to finishing the moves to the spots. Looks like there are now seven transponders without anything on them, 5,7 and 11 have a signal but aparently no programming and 12,17,18 and 20 are dark.

Any ideas on the next move?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

There are still Washington, Dallas non-nets and Miami Nets as possible moves.

Tps 5 and 7 look like the NBA League Pass may be warming up there.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Here are my readings this morning:

2--100
4--0
6--70
8--115
10-125

Right now I would say that the CLE,PIT,CIN beam is TPs 8&10 and that TP 2 is in the 'Mid-West' beam. I know that TP 6 is comming from the Phily beam.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, Tp 2 has Pittsburgh nets and Cleveland on it. It gets here.

Tp 8 has Pittsburgh non=nets and Cincinnati. It gets here.

Tp 10 has Detroit on it. It gets here.

Looks like all 3 are on the same beam.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Thank's John. The info is a big help as I'm trying to configure cities and TPs on the new map.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

It appears from the revised map that Chattanooga is just barely missed by two spotbeams. It appears unless Charlie can pull a rabbit out of the hat and save the merger, no locals for me.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2002)

Bryan27,
Looking at the revised map you posted yesterday, I am still not under a spot from E8 here in w Tx. near the NM border. However, if this will help you, I am receiving an avg reading of 60 on tp 6, 107 on tp2 and this morning tp8 fired up in the 70's.
Tp6 is for Albuquerque, tp2 is for San Antonio and it appears tp8 is for Austin.
Question-Since the old NM spot map had two tp's (8 & 10), it appears the new expanded spot for NM will take in a large portion of Co. under this spot with ABQ at tp6 (known) and Colorado Springs at tp4 (according to lyngsat). Does this sound correct?


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Chris, we all know what is going to be added to the empty space. Once Washington, Miami, & Dallas Non-Nets are moved there will be 7 1/2 empty TPs. Enough room for 15 additional cities. I wouldn't give up hope just yet.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

bryan27, if your latest map update is correct it appears that Chattanooga is still missed by all spotbeams, even the one that Nashville is on. Unless E* adds Chattanooga on full conus on 110 or 61.5 or launches another spotbeam satellite, I do not see Chattanooga being added. I doubt E* would consider placing Chattanooga on full conus, maby 61.5, and even if E* decided to add another Spotbeam bird in the future it would likely be at least a couple of years in the future.:shrug:


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I have also noticed transponder 16 bouncing around on 119


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Bryan... Readings in Cincinnati:
2 (98)
4 (0)
6 (99)
8 (101)
10 (100). 

Signal strength taken during clear sky low humidity.

See ya
Tony


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

KB, these aren't exact contours. These are the "predicted" -5dB contours. To make an exact map is difficult an really not necessary. The -5dB contours is about an 85 to 100% signal level. The 60 and 70 on TPs 6 & 8 indicate a signal level of 48 and 56% signal level, well below a -5dB level.

Most likely you are receiving a small pocket of strong signal on TP2 which gives you an 85% signal. Predicting small pockets of signal is well beyond the software that I use.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

Tony, thanks. My feeling is that what was presented to the FCC was really messed up when it came to TPs per beam. My feeling now is that our beam was the 3 TP beam and that the 'Mid-West' beam was either the 1 TP beam or it is a 2 TP beam (either 6 or 4&6).


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

JohnH, why do you say that transponders 5 and 7 on E*8 are warming up for the NBA channels (560-5xx)? Is there any evidence of this in the digital signaling of either of this transponders?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

wrate, the channels are currently hidden, but the SIDs and PIDs are there.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Tps 12, 17, 18 and 20 are back on now. Can we get some readings from California or Washington State to see if they are on EchoStar 8 or EchoStar 5?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

From just NNE of Raleigh - slot 110
1 - 104, 11 - 93 21 - 103
2 - 0, 12 - 104 22 - 77
3 - 89 13 - 95 23 - 68
4 - 0 14 - 101 24 - 82
5 - 92 (S?) 15 - 91 25 - 70
6 - 80 (S) 16 - 103 26 - 75
7 - 89 17 - 97 27 - 64
8 - 0 18 - 103 29 - 68
9 - 94 19 - 92 31 - 65
10 - 0 20 - 104


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I don't see a PAT being transmitted on 5 and 7. Are they still "hiding" as you put it?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

jhall, they pulled the streams this evening in an unusual fashion. Some of the DISH Network receivers show "Wrong Sat" and some show "Not Locked", even though they show a signal strength.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

From north of Seattle:

12: 96
17: 109
18: 95
20: 97

22-31: 70's and 80's
All spot beams: 0
For some reason I always get lower numbers on even transponders than on odd transponders.


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

JohnH-

my 3900 says "wrong sat" with no name on those 2 transponders (5 & 7). Sometimes this lack of satellite ID happens on other transponders. If it happens on the transponder of a channel the receiver is currently tuned to, the receiver becomes unable to "acquire" the satellite signal after exiting the Dish Pointing screen. "Acquiring satellite..." will stay on the screen until the transponder starts having a satellite ID again. Really annoying bug in the receiver software.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

well I can say that I am getting a lock on the transponders, but there is no PAT, no CAT, no usual tables. I did not check for the presence of NIT or SDT--and I can't do so for an hour for logistical reasons. I noticed too that 17 and 20 came back, transmitting tables but with no content. Maybe I should get a budget card for this purpose.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

11, 12, 15, 17, 18 and 20 have no channels except for maybe a Trickle here and there.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JohnH - they must be placeholders (or placekeepers) or whatever TNGTony calls them at his site - (the NBA once..)

They are not in the EPG yet...

Tony - maybe make some changes to your list - indicating that those are "placekeepers"


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

yep, I definitely have signal lock, but no tables at all. They appear quite dead.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I e-mailed Darkman already, but I wanted to let every one else he know that in my rush to get the info out there this morning before I went to work I failed to mark the channels in Red and put the (1) or (14) disclaimer on the notes. Now that even that is gone, I placed the (9) on them. No official info yet. But remember that we didn;t hear word one of the NHL package until 10 days before it launched! They could be cutting this one even closer. Or no at all. 

See ya
Tony


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe Tony, - sounds like Charlie


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

You mean how I can write a whole paragraph and end up saying nothing when it's all over? 

See ya
Tony


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

Are there any channels that have moved from 119 to 110 since the beginning of the E*8 deployment?


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

not unless they're today. Have you noticed some channel missing?


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Down here in the islands this morning I am seeing the following on 110:

1 - 82
3 - 80
5 - 79 showing wrong sat
7 - 80 showing wrong sat
9 - 76
11 -77
12 - 78
13 - 72
14 - 83
15 - 77
16 - 74
17 - 72
18 - 83
19 - 78
20 - 72
21 - 68
24 - 41

all others at zero, readings taken on a PVR 501 with 1.8 meter Channel Master Dish.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

As of 10/23 AM in southeast New Jersey:

2 - 0
4 - 0
6 - 125
8 - 0
10 - 0

Still waiting to see if spot 13 (transponder 4?) comes online with
D.C. locals, or if anything shows up for spot 14 ...


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Interesting my highest reading is TP 8 and Ia m right outside dC.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

What are placeholders? Do you mean to say that Charlie would leave 8 Conus transponders on E*8 empty just waiting for some sporting event?


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

Spot beam on Transponder 8 pinning the meter in Northern California.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Well, at least two transponders (5 and 7) will be left as "placeholders" for the NBA thing on E*8.


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TNGTony _
> *You mean how I can write a whole paragraph and end up saying nothing when it's all over?
> 
> See ya
> Tony *


lol, 
but NO - i ment by "sounds like charlie" when you said "cutting close to deadline, etc"


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

hey the NBA is back.


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Wrate,

What I call "placeholders" is a listing in the EPG of a satellite's transponders (the EPG that allows the browse feature to work). There are several channels listed there that aren't really uplinked, but show channel info. Many channels like this eventually have been added to the line-up. What drives one of the contributors to the EKB Channel list batty is that many more have never seen the light of day on E* and have had placeholders for ever! Some locals I have listed as (14) on the list have been in the transponder EPG since 1/2/02!  

See ya
Tony


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

with my poor english - "placeholders" often remind me of Placemats


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Well...see Darkman, when you have a placemat a meal is SURE to follow eventually!  Great analogy, no? 

See ya
Tony


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

ya..Tony - get ready for Email 
the Meal is coming...a feast i might add


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

how about semafore? (is that how you spell it) to be clear this is a channel that shows up in the PAT, has valid audio and video pids, has a CA PID, but there are no PES packets going to the apid or vpids? Do these show up in the SDT? for example WFPT showed up in the PAT on that 61.5 transponder, but didn't show up on lyngsat because nobody found it manually.


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Tony - Email sent...
Las Vegas and Jacksonville - looks like just joined or joining in the 9000s


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Thanks Tony. I understand now.

Do you guys think that Dish is done with E*8 as far as National Programming is concerned? I mean that the channels on transps. 22-31 will remain on E*5 and that empty conus transponders (i.e. 11, 12, 17, 18...) on E*8 will be used for more locals?


----------



## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

> how about semafore? (is that how you spell it)


Semaphore, as in (old fogey voice):


> When I was a small child, we didn't have NBA Season Pass - the only way we could get the NBA scores was by semaphore.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

jhall, it is likely that it was found, but the content could not be verified.


----------



## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

I would really like to know what Dish intend to do about transponders 22 through 31 as those transponders are very weak in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands making them un-receivable.

Does anyone have any ideas what the plans for them are?


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Heres the latest from Sacramento:

2 - Spotbeam @ 82
4 - NO SIGNAL
6 - NO SIGNAL
8 - Spotbeam @ 125 - Guess I won't have rain fade while watchinglocals.
10-NO SIGNAL

As for Conus, from 1 until 21, I'm getting strengths from 82 to 101. From 22 on, I getting a strength of 46 (on 25) to 64.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH, bryan27 or Anyone,

Do you know if dish finished moving Locals to Spot Beam Tps at 119 or at 110? (by moving i mean the existing non Spot Beam tps locals - not counting the new/upcoming ones)
Or are they still planning to move more of the existing non Spot beam ones to the Spot? If so - do you know which Markets?

Thanks


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH (and All),

I saw this somewhere:
"Cowboy TV, a PPV service, will be made available on Dish Network on November 24th. It will be on channel 456, and it will start off with the PRCA National Finals Steer Roping. It will expand to cover Chevy Truck / National Cutting Horse Futurity and more."
--
Above is a rumor i guess..just wondering if anyone heard something on that?
and JH - do you see any type of "Placeholder" for the above rumoured ch 456?


----------



## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

The only thing left on 110 would be Washington and Dallas (Non-Nets). Miami is a toss up. It could go to 119 with the other Miami stations or it could go to a spot on 110.

Z'loth, thanks. I would guess that TP2 is on the beam for Redding/Chico, but at a lower power for testing. Now lets turn on the rest!


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Darkman, channel 456 has been a sports and events PPV for some time.

As to whether they are finished "moving" locals to spots, keep watching.


----------



## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

We still waiting in Las Vegas to hear anything about those locals!

The UPN would be great.... it's such a low signal our affiliate transmits that the OTA antenna only picks up a horrible signal.

As for HD locals via OTA, we've only really got CBS. The PBS HD is the national demo, ABC is upconverted and the rest 'may' arrive sometime in November. Since our NBC affiliate has passed nearly 15 deadlines and still nothing, I'm not holding my breath.

Titan TV reports that some will 'arrive' 1st November.

Cari
www.coribright.com


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH - hehe - somehow i knew it was 456, but was thinking 556 
sorry - yes 456 is of course exists

thought - they d stick some 556 between NHLs and NBAs 

Cori - your Las Vegas locals are coming very soon..they are in place already in the 9000s...


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Still no sign of Dish doing something about transponders 22 through 31, they are still on E*V at low power making the almost impossible to receive in PR and Virgin islands.

Does anyone know what they intend to do, there seem to be two alternatives, move most of the programming over to the now spare transponders on E*VIII or double the power on the E*V transponders, What will it be?


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Either way it would seem that double powering the E*V would be an eventual move. They may be waiting for E*VIII to get more time online before making any such moves.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

JohnH, do you see any signs (SSID's for instance) on E*8's transponders 11, 12, 15, 17, 18 or 20 that may indicate what those transponders will be used for in the near future? Or that they will in fact be used?
TIA


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

wrate, apparently no videos there, hidden or otherwise.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

errr!!! Seams that Chattanooga is right in a whole , barely missed by 3 spots. I get a 75 on TP9 at 119, which is the Birmingham Spotbeam I think. I get about a 45 or 50 signal on TP 6 which is the Nashville beam, funny thing is that TP4 which is also on the Nashville beam I get a 0 signal. I also get a 45 or 50 on TP8(I think that is correct), which if I am not mistaken is one of three TP's on the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati spotbeam but 0's on other two TP's on that Spotbeam. Very frustrating, because of this and the fact that Chattanooga is the #85 dma and the merger is not likely going through, I do not stand a chance of getting my locals  .


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## dlsnyder (Apr 24, 2002)

I am seeing signal of 125+ on 110 tp 2 and 87 on 110 tp8 out here in western Riverside county CA, about 60 mi east of downtown LA. I am guessing that Las Vegas will probably be on tp8 (I am about 400 mi SW of there) but does anyone know what is going to tp2? Perhaps moving LA side-slot channels? I get a better signal on that one than on 119 tp3!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Check TNGTOny's Channel list site..
the information on Las Vegas locals is already there..


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2002)

I was wondering about Colorado Springs...I heard that Dish was going to have our locals on the New Mexico spots (TP4&6). I get a 125 reading on TP4...but TP6 which is supposed to be on the same spotbeam is 0. Is TP6 pointed differently than 4?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Check the TNTTony's Channel list site too...
the info on Colorado Springs is already there as well


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

It is beginning to look more and more like each of the 25 or 26 spotbeam transponders on EchoStar 8 has its own antenna.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I'm not sure when this happened exactly, but it seems STZ-W was given an AC-3 stream. WOOHOO!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

jhall

September 23, 2001. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/247

See ya
Tony


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

well it may have been removed, because it was not in revision 'q' of my files taken on October 23. Revision 'r' taken today has added the stream.
no big deal, I had just noticed it.
How annoying it is, however, that the HBO and SHOW DD feeds only have 2.0 instead of 5.1. (the 5.1 streams are available on HDTV channels) can somebody query E* about this?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

It also depends if the movie in question was done in DD5.1 or not. Trust me - HBO lights up my DD5.1 indicators on the right movies.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

maybe HBO gets it right, but Dances With Wolves on Showtime last week was 2.0 on channel 318 and 5.1 on 9430.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

So the Washington D.C. locals and Miami NETs are still on CONUS after close to a month - I'm starting to wonder if there are some issues with moving these channels to spot beam. Any info?


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

That just means that Showtime was not provided with a 5.1 mix for broadcast, which is not uncommon with older films. The cable stations are lagely only being given 5.1 mixes for films which have premiered on cable within the last two years.

-Lyle J.P.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

so this is an issue where E* provides the AC3 stream for 318 and Viacom provides the feed on the HD channel? At the same time, 9430 was running a 5.1 mix and 318 was running a 2.0 mix.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Perhaps so far they have just been moving the "easy" moves, ones whre they simply have to redirect a transport stream. To move Washington locals to their spot, they would need to break up a stream. Surely not difficult for them, maybe they're not bandwidth-crunched any more and are ok just to let it sit there on CONUS transponders.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

And beside that, maybe someone in Colorado wants to watch those channels at home.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

lol


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH - arggg - lol - you exposed my Fashion TV - just kiddin...
( I knew you would anyhow somehow ) 
I discovered that TP yesturday there...was going to post at the Espee..but figured - i ll hold on somewhat...
LOL - sure thing - today you posted it 
So i updated the Espee site as well 

JH - you know i tried other fishing for other TPs there - and discovered few more - but when scan them for channels - nothing is on them - they are "empty"..
there are several like that there..and i only fished at 20000 V and 22000 V


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Can somebody in Dallas and Denver please confirm you are receiving your locals? The SDT tells me they are where they are supposed to be, but I am wondering about the integrity of them. Can you confirm?
as soon as I posted this, no sooner had I hit send, then numbers started to look right. I was about to comment that I still had KWGN, so it wasn't likely a fiber outage. Maybe it was a move gone bad? 

Perhaps Dallas and Denver could keep an eye on it and let us know? (I don't really think I am going mad)


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

We lost Nashville NETS today on 12297 FTA  maybe we can ask for them back?
If DC were going to move to a spot, that's where I'd put it unless there's a spot not yet lit. but I'm not sure they can fit full DMAs on a single transponder.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Nashville nets are still there.

Tp 4 is not lit up in this area.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

they came back some time yesterday afternoon/evening and remain. I wonder why they are there. no matter, I enjoy them, and enjoyed watching the election coverage of TN local stuff.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

It looks like Buffalo, NY may be coming online. WKBW, WIVB, WGRZ, WUTV, and WNYO. but content isn't being uplinked yet, they're placemats? in the SDT and some of them are transmitting active EPG.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Has Dish added any new channels to E*8 at all in November, even if they are LIL in spot beams? Or is Dish done with E*8 and current channel/transponder configuration should be expected to last for a while?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Jacksonville, Las Vegas and Buffalo to spots. Expect anything.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

another words - Expect the Unexpected


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

well BUF is still a placemat, so I guess the meal won't happen tonight for them. Jacksonville and Las Vegas are out of range for me.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Wrate,

Check the channel chart (www.dishchannelchart.com / http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm) at the bottom are the most recent changes and additions. There is also a link to the changes archive. They've added quite a few things.

I don't know what's happened since Friday. My ISP and phone company aren't playing nice together right now so I'm incommunicado (except from work) so I haven't been able to see what they have done over the weekend and into today.

Anyway, lots o additions. And they still have some spots to light up.

See ya
Tony


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Tony, thanks a lot. The only channels I would be able to see, now that they've been moved to E*8 are Info and Info9. But I don't think they are available to regular subs. Also one of this channels has transp. 26 on E*8 as reference, yet there is no transp. 26 on E*8. Its probably transp. 16. Right?

Thanks for the information I will be checking the chart regularly.


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## RickD (Apr 23, 2002)

Noticed that HBO Comedy is now on transponder 11?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, PQ on some of the 110 channels should look better, They moved some around which resulted in Tps 11 and 15 now having some channels. Should see an improvement on all except locals, Starz/Encore themes and most of the Public Interest channels


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Do you guys see a difference in transponder 13 on E*8 strength? I am in Mexico City, but I used to get 87 and this morning I was gettng 0!
Plus some of the Dish Latino channels and the Discovery Science channel are on this transponder now.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

so what does it do when you try to tune these channels? Obviously if it really believes it is 0, you won't be able to receive them.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

It displays the signal lost message. I did go into the signal strength menu and transponder 13 has 0 signal strenth now.  I believe that transponder 13 was moved back to E*5 for some unknow reason.


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## axelmarzan (Nov 14, 2002)

whats hapenning with the transp. 21,22,23 in 110 isnt suposed to be stronger at the moment?


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Are you having problems with them?


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## axelmarzan (Nov 14, 2002)

yeah actually all transponders from 2-20 are at 85-95 and these are like 50% or so


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## axelmarzan (Nov 14, 2002)

whats the story about changing hd prgramming to 119
and anybody know anything about 921 arriving date


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I am not aware E* is attempting to switch their HDTV to 119. Given that this bird is overpacked to the gills, I would not suspect such an occurrance would occur without the assistance of D*. Given that the merger likely will not go through, I don't see that happening unless some sort of peering agreement were to be established. It's an interesting idea, peering in the satellite business.

Interesting to see what would happen if D* decided to convert to the DVB open standards. Would the DOJ consider this a cartel or peering agreement?
A mess like that could destroy the Internet!


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

Last night I could see a signal on transponder 4 which is a spot beam transponder that I should not be able to receive, also noted the signal on transponder 13 had dropped to an unlockable level.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Johnsmith. I am getting 0 (zero) on transponder 13 in Mexico City, they must have moved that transponder back to E*5. What a strange move.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Apparently E*8 has problems with two thrusters.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I cannot find reference to this. Could you provide more info?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

It was mentioned by Charlie in the Q3 Earnings conference call and it is in the 10-Q.


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

I wonder if these technical problems are serious enough to prevent finishing off the moves to Echostar VIII and getting on with double powering E*V.

It looks to me as if transponder 13 is back on Echostar V and that transponder 4 has moved back there as well. I see a signal on transponder 4 at E*V level when I should not see anything if it were on a spotbeam.


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## bryan27 (Apr 1, 2002)

johnsmith22, what is your signal level on TP4? E* could be testing the PR spotbeam (probably not at full power though).


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

The signal is in the order of 50 points which is very similar to the levels I was getting on the lower transponders of E*V. If it is the Puerto Rico spot I would imagine I would get it with my 1.8 meter as I am less than 200 miles SE of Puerto Rico. I thought I read somewhere that the PR spot was on transponder 10 but I could certainly stand corrected on that one.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

well, my sister has 0 in Knoxville, and I also get 0. As far as Knoxville spots, the strongest is TP 10, coming in at 80+, all the others are below 50. The one that shocks me is that Nashville one is in the 30s. The only spot I see lit on TP 10 is the Ohio spot, so that must be what she is seeing. The only hope I see for her is a spot to magically light up on 4 or a CONUS beam. I'm getting a lock consistently on 10, but 2 and 8 come and go as they please--they are not predictable.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

(Finally) Washington D.C. locals have moved to a spotbeam on E*8 Transponder 4.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hmmm - TNGTony - take a note of above Washington D.C post 
i haven't checked yet
---
Yup - they did move - "4s?"
61.5s Wash. are still on 61.5


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Already on the chart. 

See ya
Tony


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

k...
didn't check last night - i fell asleep on the couch as a "log"


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Burlington moved from 119 to 110 Tps 4 and 6 Northeast Beam.

They also spread out some more channels so that every conus Transponder has some channels now.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - thanx JH 
Will be interesting to see TNGTony's list - when he sorts all this out


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

and we have unfortunately lost Nashville locals 
See what happens when I go off and do something else, all the fun happens!


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yeah, I didn't watch them much anyway.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - Tony - i think you ll be busy today


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

He went to work. So, he will be busy tonight.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe OK,
but i see him lurking around here - currently, somewhat - too


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

jhall - what do you mean - lost Nashville locals?
I thought Nashville were on spot beam already? 
with exeption of 61.5's


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

We lost the free ones that were with Philadelphia. The regular ones are still there, not free of course.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH - for example which ones channel numbers were free there with Phil.?


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

There were no numbers. You have to put the pids in manually.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

k
thanks "JH"s (lol - you are both "JH"s or "jh"s)


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

The 4 network stations were available only on an FTA receiver from Northeast Beam Tp 6 at 110.


----------



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

119's Fresno moved to 110 sat as well now, to tp 10


----------



## wrate (May 7, 2002)

What are the cities that will remain conus? Denver, Dallas, Chicago and Atlanta?

TIA

Wrate


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Those 4 apparently will since they are offered as Distant Network selections.
Don't know the score on Miami, yet.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

My DP says the DC locals are on 110 TP31. I wish they were on Spot4 much beter signal strength.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

My records show WJLA, Washington-ABC on TP 264. Perhaps things have changed since you last looked?


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## johnsmith22 (Jul 12, 2002)

I saw a post earlier that some conus channels have moved on 110, has anyone worked out what the moves were? I am still seeing the same channels on conus transponders 22-31 as were there before. Have there been moves within the lower order conus transponders?


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

The moves were within the lower numbered transponders and primarily affected the Starz!/Encore channels along with a few others.

All conus Transponders have at least 2 channels, now.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

As of this AM and when I posted last night my DP says 110 TP 31. 
Like I said above I wish it was on TP 4 since there is a significant variation in signal strength. 


I am not sure what TP 264 means nor do i know what "records" are being referred to. All I am doing is reporting what my receiver says. But you can't possibly be telling me that the display on a DISHPLAYER is incorrect---can you?

:shrug:


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

What method are you using that tells you they are on TP 31?
As for the records, I am reading the update messages from the satellite that tells the receivers what channels are where.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

The DP(DISHPlayer) is not always accurate when used to find what Transponder a channel is on.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Well I hope you could tell I was being facetious about the reliability of data from a DP. That is why I spelled out Dishplayer and used caps. I don't trust ANYTHING about my DP 100%.

But if you tune to a channel and then run the diagnostics you go to the transponder that channel is on. If you change transponders or sats and then go back to the channel there is a brief pause while signal is reacquired. This is the easiest method to check things on just about any DISH receiver and is often cited in these forums.

How are you reading these "update screens?"


In the case of the DC locals WJLA, WUSA, WRC, WTTG, WBDC, WETA, all said TP 31 this AM. channels such as WJAL, WNVT etc indicated a 61.5 transponder. 

So what is TP 264?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

My DISHPlayer tells me Philadelphia is also on Tp 31. Philadelphia is actually on Tp 6 and Washington is actually on Tp 4.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

I don't understand where it could get TP 31, WFDC and flock are on TP 22, 110 locals used to be on TP 19, now on TP 4, I don't show any changes in TP 31. The numbers I do not fully understand. Each "transponder" can be called a transponder or spot, as far as I understand. I'm not sure how the menu thing knows it is a spot or not, possibly if the second of the 3-digit transponder number > 3. but back to the number itself
The first number appears to be 0 for things on 119, 1 for things on 61.5 and 2 for things on 110. The next number, 64, seems to be part of beam #6, transponder #4. It also seems that stuff on 119 with beam #6 I can see, so like #61 or #061 is spot #1 on 119 beam #6, transponder 1.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

The botom line here is that the DP is telling us weird things. Which really should not amaze anyone.

I take it you are saying that the locals formerly at 61.5 are now on 110 TP 22. I will have to check that out. While I did not look at WFDC specifically this AM the others were still reading 61.5 although I foolishly did not note the TP.

BTW Open TV receivers display whether it is a spot beam or not. Legacy receivers do not. I do think it is odd that it is showing TP 31 and a signal strength in the low 70s but TP 4 checks out at about 104. It is doing it consistently as well not a one time fluke thing.

Again I am not sure where you are seeing these update messages. I am not doubting you. I am just saying it is odd that this discrepancy exists.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

oh that would be a MOST HIDIOUS bug! all spot channels are on TP31! haven't we had this discussion before?
it's like going through a linked list and not finding what you're looking for, then returning the last one instead


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

The update messages are not available for viewing from within an E* receiver. It would appear it is simply a visual thing and doesn't effect the actual operations of the receiver. I am seeing much better signal on tp 6 than tp 4. Perhaps a E* person could give this feedback to engineering.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Ihave never seen a discussion on spots always showing up as TP 31.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Is anybody else seeing strangeness with TP 1 on 119? (61) I was seeing good signal and snr, but was unable to lock to the transponder. By the time I got into dbstalk and got this page up, I was once again able to lock to it and my E* receiver can lock to it. It waffles about signal strength, but I can lock to it at least. It was as if FEC was wrong but signals were still good. anybody seen this before?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

jhall, they probably were changing channels at that time. It looks like Burlington moved back to 119.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

ah, cool. so let's get Nashville back.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Looks like we get all of Burlington instead, on Tp 6 and Tp 4.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JH - let Tony know please, if you didn't already


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## dmodemd (Jul 5, 2002)

I searched through the 10-Q and here is the appropriate part:

. 

During September and October 2002 two of the thrusters on EchoStar VIII experienced anomalous events and are not currently in use. The satellite is equipped with a total of 12 thrusters that help control attitude and pointing. An investigation of the thruster anomalies, none of which have impacted commercial operation of the satellite to date, is continuing. The satellite can operate using a combination of the other 10 thrusters. Until the root cause of these anomalies is finally determined, there can be no assurance future anomalies will not cause further losses which could impact commercial operation of the satellite.


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## jhall (Oct 16, 2002)

Thanks. I DO now dimly recall somebody saying that during the technical chat.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Since there hasn't been any posts since November 25th, and we know that E*8 is up and running, can we un-sticky this thread?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - i guess it grew quite long, eh? 

Scott or other Mods - i've chosen Avatar from my computer... - why does it say - "Coming Soon" though (for my icon)?


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