# wireless network secured



## FUCCO (Oct 6, 2007)

I have the hr20-100 i heard that dod beta is available. I am going to ge a linksys wireless gaming adapter for mine. However my network is secured. Will these adapters still work with a secured network? My laptop has a store security key to get online. Where or how would i store the network security key?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Yes it will work great and I have the Linksys wireless game adapter (WGA54G) and don't have any problem.

You connect it to your PC ethernet connection and configure the game adapter to work with your wireless network. 

Then you move it over to the HR20/21 and run the network setup.


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## spamstew (Feb 16, 2006)

FUCCO said:


> I have the hr20-100 i heard that dod beta is available. I am going to ge a linksys wireless gaming adapter for mine. However my network is secured. Will these adapters still work with a secured network? My laptop has a store security key to get online. Where or how would i store the network security key?


yes it does... i have the linksys game adapter and it works great on my wifi network... you have access the adapter and input your wifi network info... gp to this *Linksys Adapter page*


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

FUCCO said:


> I have the hr20-100 i heard that dod beta is available. I am going to ge a linksys wireless gaming adapter for mine. However my network is secured. Will these adapters still work with a secured network? My laptop has a store security key to get online. Where or how would i store the network security key?


The linksys game adapter takes care of that in a very straight forward manner. You should not have a problem. Especially if you have it together enough to secure your own wireless network.


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## FUCCO (Oct 6, 2007)

thanks for all the info. Well i went to cir city and best buy and neither have it in stock. So i ordered it at best buy. Should have it in a week. I have the hr2-100. Is there anything i need to do. I got the new updates yesterday from directv but do not have a channel 1000. Do i need to hook up a network adapter first before i can get channel 1000?


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## BkwSoft (Oct 18, 2007)

What protocol are you using to secure your wireless network? The linksys game adapter you specified only support WEP. WEP is anything but secure. You should be using WPA which in itself isn't perfect but is a heck of a lot more secure the WEP.

If you are using WPA one alternative option would be to pick up a WRT54G wireless router which usually can be found much cheaper than the gaming adapter, and flash it with third party firmware like DD-WRT.


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Buff...62407/catOid/-12980/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

This bridge supports WPA, too.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

BkwSoft said:


> What protocol are you using to secure your wireless network? The linksys game adapter you specified only support WEP. WEP is anything but secure. You should be using WPA which in itself isn't perfect but is a heck of a lot more secure the WEP.
> 
> If you are using WPA one alternative option would be to pick up a WRT54G wireless router which usually can be found much cheaper than the gaming adapter, and flash it with third party firmware like DD-WRT.


In addition to WEP, I am not broadcasting the SSID and I am putting the MAC address of each wireless client in the access control list. All 3 together make it very secure IMHO. For one thing you need the unbroadcasted SSID to be able to do anything. And even if you got that and somehow the WEP key, your MAC address would not be in the access list.

Also my router is the WRT54G from best buy for $49. THe game adapter was $99 from circuit city. So I checked amazon.com and it was $67 with free shipping and handling. I got it from amazon.

Bottom line is if anyone wants to break into a wireless network in my neighborhood, there are about a dozen wide open before they try to crack mine. So I am sleeping OK for now.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"Do not broadcast SSID" is urban legend. 

It serve no purpose and create delays when you have more APs around with SSID transmitting.

Run Netstumbler and you'll see it in a second.


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

P Smith said:


> "Do not broadcast SSID" is urban legend.
> 
> It serve no purpose and create delays when you have more APs around with SSID transmitting.
> 
> Run Netstumbler and you'll see it in a second.


Why no purpose?

If you send the SSID, then even a noob with daddy's laptop can try to guess the pass key. It offers some protection.

I have "no broadcast" wireless networks both at home and work, within areas that have other Wi-Fi with their SSIDs broadcasting, and connect quickly, with no issues.

You can, in Vista, check "connect even if the network is not broadcasting" in the properties to speed things up.

Since a wireless bridge is usually left on. Once it connects it's always going to be hot, anyway.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Kansas Zephyr said:


> Why no purpose?
> 
> If you send the SSID, then even a noob with daddy's laptop can try to guess the pass key. It offers some protection.
> 
> ...


And I will claim you will still not be able to connect to my wireless network...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Wanna bet ? Your WEP key will be revealed in half hour by any curious kid with a laptop.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Wanna bet ? Your WEP key will be revealed in half hour by any curious kid with a laptop.


OK. How does that get his or her hardware address in my MAC address list?


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Selecting the strongest encryption WEP2/WPA2 will have no impact on your use of the Router and devices. You can make your router indiscoverable that helps a great deal. Don't let your network/Internet become a hotspot.

The higher the letter (e.g. G, N, etc) the more likely without proper security, you can become essentially a hotspot and it can hurt your bandwidth.

If your going wired, you can disable the wireless if you want to.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

jtn said:


> Selecting the strongest encryption WEP2/WPA2 will have no impact on your use of the Router and devices. You can make your router indiscoverable that helps a great deal. Don't let your network become a hotspot.


By not broadcasting the SSID? People have said you can get a program to bust this. Even still I think if you have a MAC access list that will stop a break in.


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

gcisko said:


> By not broadcasting the SSID? People have said you can get a program to bust this. Even still I think if you have a MAC access list that will stop a break in.


A MAC can be cloned by any PC/MAC computer unfortunately. So to prevent this from happening, don't go online until you hide your SSID (broadcasting) from the setup program provided by your router. Newer router will show the number of devices hopped onto your network/Internet. You can kick off the units that are unauthorized, unless the MAC address has been cloned.

Sometimes neighbors are not intentionally breaking in, the Windows XP/Vista will log itself into any unsecured network (i.e. assumed it has permission since it has not been secured. It sees it as a hotspot, like many restaurants provide for free. So not illegal).


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Kansas Zephyr said:


> Why no purpose?
> 
> If you send the SSID, then even a noob with daddy's laptop can try to guess the pass key. It offers some protection.
> 
> ...


...
Disabled the SSID broadcast is a joke, IMO. As a matter of fact, there is a current known issue with XP SP2, if SSID broadcasting is disabled on the router, XP will connect to it, but wont stay connected...

Heck, so the Windows Utility doesnt pick up "hidden" networks, most 3rd party managers (like the Linksys Connection Manager, the D-Link connection manager, the T-Mobile Connection Manger available free @ download.com) pick 'em right up!

The best thing to do is use the strongest possible security setting, and remember you're only as strong as your weakest link. So if everything you have except the gaming adapter for your XBOX will run WPA2, but you have to run WEP because the XBOX... Its time for a new gaming adapter for the XBOX.

As far as getting the adapter set up. They're fairly easy via the CD or via the web management. For the OP, I would recommend the CD.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

jtn said:


> A MAC can be cloned by any PC/MAC computer unfortunately. So to prevent this from happening, don't go online until you hide your SSID (broadcasting) from the setup program provided by your router. Newer router will show the number of devices hopped onto your network/Internet.


I agree it can be cloned. However how is the super hacker going to get the MAC address to begin with? The first thing I do when setting up my router is to not broadcast the SSID. This is not my first BBQ  I actually do this for a living and support 600+ windows desktop users.


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

gcisko said:


> I agree it can be cloned. However how is the super hacker going to get the MAC address to begin with? The first thing I do when setting up my router is to not broadcast the SSID. This is not my first BBQ  I actually do this for a living and support 600+ windows desktop users.


Those who don't take proper precautions and operate without security via wireless broadcast not only the SSID but the computer info and MAC are revealed. All you have to do to get the info is go to http://192.168.*.* depending on the router to get this info if it has not been password protected or secured, which many are not sure how to do.

I have been able to see my neighbors computers and MAC's and hop on to their networks to see if my theory was right. I could login to the http://192.168.*.* of the Belkin router to get this information and print it!

I have my own internet and don't need to do this but I was stunned that it was possible!

I did confront my neighbor and told them I was able to login to their unsecured network and showed them the printout, and the next day they were secured!


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## BkwSoft (Oct 18, 2007)

gcisko said:


> I agree it can be cloned. However how is the super hacker going to get the MAC address to begin with? The first thing I do when setting up my router is to not broadcast the SSID. This is not my first BBQ  I actually do this for a living and support 600+ windows desktop users.


They can get your MAC address simply by listing to the traffic you are already broadcasting.

The only thing you are doing by not broadcasting your SSID, MAC filtering and WEP is SLIGHTLY slowing someone down. All three can be overcome within a few minutes with readily available software downloaded from the net.

You don't need to be a hacker to do this. Any script kiddie can do it with little skill involved.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

So, gcisko - check post #12 again.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

P Smith said:


> So, gcisko - check post #12 again.


OK I Know you are waiting for someone to ask so I will do it. What then do you need to secure your wireless network? Apparently I inappropriately said I knew what I was doing when I am clearly clueless. Apologies if anyone was offended.


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

No wireless is truly secure with the gifted people out there on the web. So much can be learned without stepping foot in a classroom.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I have a solution, but not sure if you'll follow the professional path. Use Kerberos server.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I have a solution, but not sure if you'll follow the professional path. Use Kerberos server.


Hey pal don't get me going on kerberos. Anyway thanks for the concise answer with regards to securing wireless.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

CJTE said:


> As a matter of fact, there is a current known issue with XP SP2, if SSID broadcasting is disabled on the router, XP will connect to it, but wont stay connected...


Did you make sure that the "Connect even if the network is not broadcasting" check box was checked?


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## su_A_ve (Sep 27, 2007)

Why are people going with the Linksys adapter, which costs more than a router ?

Simply get another router and set up a wireless bridge between the two and call it a day... You'll actually increase your wireless coverage as a bonus...

My .02...


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

su_A_ve said:


> Why are people going with the Linksys adapter, which costs more than a router ?
> 
> Simply get another router and set up a wireless bridge between the two and call it a day... You'll actually increase your wireless coverage as a bonus...
> 
> My .02...


Whelp... In my case it was due to me being totally clueless on all of that.


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## BkwSoft (Oct 18, 2007)

gcisko said:


> OK I Know you are waiting for someone to ask so I will do it. What then do you need to secure your wireless network? Apparently I inappropriately said I knew what I was doing when I am clearly clueless. Apologies if anyone was offended.


I'm not offended at all. Per post #6, my recomendation is to use WPA over WEP. Since we're talking about home networks here we can just assume that noone is going to deal with RADIUS or any other server based authentication. PreShared Keys can be moderatly secure provided they are sufficiently long. I would go with at least 128 bits if not 256.


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## rbpeirce (Feb 24, 2006)

BkwSoft said:


> What protocol are you using to secure your wireless network? The linksys game adapter you specified only support WEP. WEP is anything but secure. You should be using WPA which in itself isn't perfect but is a heck of a lot more secure the WEP.


What about MAC addressing. Is that supported?


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## BkwSoft (Oct 18, 2007)

Restricting use by MAC address can slow someone down but it won't stop them. All they need to do is monitor the network traffic being broadcast and find a MAC that is authorized and clone that MAC.

If you restrict access by MAC you will have no clue if you have someone you don't want on your network because you will not be able to identify them (They will look like one of your trusted clients).

In my case since I'm not using a off the shelf Router/AP I have more flexability. I'm not restricting MAC addresses because I wan't to know when someone is attempting access. I have a script set up that if an UNKNOWN MAC connects to my wireless network that I will get a text message sent to my cell phone alerting me.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

BkwSoft said:


> Restricting use by MAC address can slow someone down but it won't stop them. All they need to do is monitor the network traffic being broadcast and find a MAC that is authorized and clone that MAC.
> 
> If you restrict access by MAC you will have no clue if you have someone you don't want on your network because you will not be able to identify them (They will look like one of your trusted clients).
> 
> In my case since I'm not using a off the shelf Router/AP I have more flexability. I'm not restricting MAC addresses because I wan't to know when someone is attempting access. I have a script set up that if an UNKNOWN MAC connects to my wireless network that I will get a text message sent to my cell phone alerting me.


I certainly think it would be most helpful for someone to do a short writeup on what it takes to secure off the shelf wireless routers. Obviously everything I have tried it pointless. Is it impossible? I am not talking about something specialized. I am referring to a $49 Linksys wireless router that anyone can get. It does have WEP and WAP encryption.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Getting something chip in your hand doesn't imply you don't need to learn or hire a professional.
Internet is full of white papers and recommendations plus own experience. If you think your time is too valuable for learning, then give the job to knowledgeable person.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Getting something chip in your hand doesn't imply you don't need to learn or hire a professional.
> Internet is full of white papers and recommendations plus own experience. If you think your time is too valuable for learning, then give the job to knowledgeable person.


OK here you go. While it may be possible to break all that stuff. How or why would someone actually be involved in breaking into your wireless & for how long and all of that stuff. Especially when there are so many other networks wide open everywhere. So while it may be possible. I see it totally unlikely that someone would ignore the wide open networks just to get jollies busting my hidden WEP encrypted and MAC address secured network. If you know where I live I guess you can have at it. But I think the reality is if you just do some simple precautions, you will be fine.

I am really digging you super cryptic "get a professional" thing though. I charge $120 per hour.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

rbpeirce said:


> What about MAC addressing. Is that supported?


Sure but many think it is pointless. It really is a "he said - she said" type of argument.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"I charge $120 per hour."
Real experienced professionals with good credentials will take $200...250/h.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

P Smith said:


> "I charge $120 per hour."
> Real experienced professionals with good credentials will take $200...250/h.


Those are my rates after work hours. No one has taken me up on it and that's the entire point. I want people to leave me alone, otherwise my phone will be ringing off the hook


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