# Genie client C31 running hot @150°F



## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

I just noticed that my Genie client is running pretty hot, sometimes @150°F. Is this normal?
My receiver, HR34, runs at about 100°F.


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

Just so you have a point of reference

I just turned on one of my C31's which is wall mounted behind a 42 flat and it shows to be @ 152...

My Genie HR-34 is running @ 104 and it is sitting on top of my AM21.

Just what my C31 and HR-34 shows............Dont know what is normal


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

Ok, thanks. I guess it is normal then.

Lac


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## akw4572 (Sep 8, 2005)

How do you check this?


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

The C31 in our master bedroom was running at about 142F this morning. It is sitting out in the open on top of a bookshelf that the TV is on.
Our HR34 is in an enclosed wood cabinet with glass doors and runs about 104F.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

akw4572 said:


> How do you check this?


Go into menu, settings, info and test, more info for the client.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

the temp is dangerously close to functioning max ! try to find best position, if it has venting grill, orient it to make vertical airflow


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Is the max temp stated anywhere? Link?


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

I see that viclovr stated the temps should range between 32-122F
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3088347&highlight=temperature#post3088347

Like I said mine is out in the open so it can't get any better air flow. It is upstairs which is warmer than the rest of the house though.


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

betterdan said:


> I see that viclovr stated the temps should range between 32-122F
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3088347&highlight=temperature#post3088347
> 
> Like I said mine is out in the open so it can't get any better air flow. It is upstairs which is warmer than the rest of the house though.


That is the ambient temperature.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Aha, yea I see now that texasbrit said it was ambient temps.
HDTVFan0001 though mentioned that his C31 had a temp of 118 and the highest he has ever seen it was 120F. I don't know how his is that low of a temp unless his house is really cold.


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

lzhj9k said:


> Just so you have a point of reference
> 
> I just turned on one of my C31's which is wall mounted behind a 42 flat and it shows to be @ 152...
> 
> ...


Just rechecked C31 Client Software 0x711
Temp shows the same as this morning @152
Client is mounted in DirecTv wall mount bracket using DirecTv mounting
instructions as it relates to bracket orientation and client mountng.
Flat screen has been off and on all day.

Server is running 0x6bb
Server HR-34 Sitting on Top of Hitatchi rear projection 65 inch TV
Open mesh metal shelf on top with AM-21 below the HR-34
Temp shows the same as this morning @104
TV is off and been off all day

Just what my hardware shows....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

betterdan said:


> Is the max temp stated anywhere? Link?


Please, do study the device's chips tech specs.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Please, do study the device's chips tech specs.


Link? Is the max temp a secret or can you say it here?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's depend. I don't know what chip is using inside of your C31. Can you open and tell me ?


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

I don't want to go that far.
It seems like it is running at a normal temp compared to some others here and if it does overheat and break then Directv will replace it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you're lucky as it's a client w/out a drive or it will cooked already ... anyway +150 F is not what will allow C31 works for long time, regardless your reverence to other posts, it's too high temp


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

There's really nothing I can do except put a fan blowing on it. It is out in the open with comfortable temps in the house. If it dies, it dies.


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## viclovr (Aug 15, 2012)

P Smith said:


> you're lucky as it's a client w/out a drive or it will cooked already ... anyway +150 F is not what will allow C31 works for long time, regardless your reverence to other posts, it's too high temp


seeing that most c31 units are running at 135 + i would assume that its ok to be ran at 150. there aint much in the units to fail. its little more than a deca.


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## viclovr (Aug 15, 2012)

P Smith said:


> It's depend. I don't know what chip is using inside of your C31. Can you open and tell me ?


the first look page for the c31 has pictures of the inside 
http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/C31 First Look.pdf


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

viclovr said:


> the first look page for the c31 has pictures of the inside
> http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/C31 First Look.pdf


I guess you have better eyes then my, could you please read that model id of Broadcom main chip ?


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## viclovr (Aug 15, 2012)

Broadcom's BCM7340

the same one that the h25 uses i believe

edit. i googled it. i cant read it on the review and dont want to take it apart
BCM7408
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Cable-Set-Top-Box-Solutions/BCM7408


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

viclovr said:


> Broadcom's BCM7340
> 
> the same one that the h25 uses i believe
> 
> ...


If it 7408, the an extort below sounds ironic for C31 implementation:
_Dynamic power management controllers provide efficient power management capable of managing and shutting down unused system components in real-time_
Counting the high temp [+150 F], someone did sloppy job on FW, an efficiency is none.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

On page 16 of the report you could see power consumption of cable, sat STB


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

lacibaci said:


> I just noticed that my Genie client is running pretty hot, sometimes @150°F. Is this normal?
> My receiver, HR34, runs at about 100°F.


Very early on, the "R"-series of DVRs were notorious for fan failures, resulting in a number of reported overheating-related premature failures. Given that history, I'm guessing the fan has failed in your C31.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would suspect, no fan inside of C31 as for Joey ... not installed just for cut its cost


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Just turned on and checked the C31 in the spare bedroom and it is 147F. It is also out in the open on a shelf that the TV also sits on. Temp in the house is about 67F


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Or maybe this is just as simple as the hardware/software not posting an accurate temp. Has anyone checked one with an infrared/non-contact thermometer.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I did measure Joey - confirm the its temp


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Perhaps we have discovered the reason for the C41s...they run MUCH cooler (under 120 degrees).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Perhaps we have discovered the reason for the C41s...they run MUCH cooler (under 120 degrees).


Mine don't show that big of a difference. 143 verses 134


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Hmmm...mine is only 116 at the moment and I've never seen it above 118.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perhaps it's nice to know, but how it could help these owners of overheated C41 ?


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

betterdan said:


> There's really nothing I can do except put a fan blowing on it. It is out in the open with comfortable temps in the house. If it dies, it dies.


Agreed. I like the attitude. Another thing we should not have to fret about.

And there is truly a ginormous difference between losing a DVR and losing a client, in that when you lose a DVR you can lose 450 HRs of HD programming and the serial thread of 30 or 40 shows you are recording, while if you lose the client, you just have them send you a new one and you're good to go.

So while I regularly buy $9 6" fans from Walmart and point them at all DVRs (and my AVR), I might skip a C31. A DVR with content is something you have an investment in, while a client is like a rented car.

With summer coming I am not really happy about the thought of these little heaters all over my house, tho; cooler is always better, but not putting out great volumes of heat in the first place is better still.


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

P Smith said:


> Perhaps it's nice to know, but how it could help these owners of overheated C41 ?


Who has an overheated C41 or C31? Since 150 degrees is apparently normal for these, I wouldn't say any of them are overheating. More like operating as designed.

Since they have no moving parts and just a small amount of storage I wouldn't worry about them failing. If they had a hard drive in them and were getting to that temp that would be cause for concern. But since they don't and most of the inside of them is hollow there's really nothing to be concerned about.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

JBv said:


> Who has an overheated C41 or C31? *Since 150 degrees is apparently normal for these*, I wouldn't say any of them are overheating. More like operating as designed.
> 
> Since they have no moving parts and just a small amount of storage I wouldn't worry about them failing. If they had a hard drive in them and were getting to that temp that would be cause for concern. But since they don't and most of the inside of them is hollow there's really nothing to be concerned about.


You could say anything what you want, but without knowing Opreationg Conditions, your conclusion is wrong.

For example other chips (based on same technology) has Max operating temp is 70 C.

Now calculate the C31's temp 150 F ... got it ? = 65.5 C.

Perhaps you are not EE and never been close to design CE devices ... I wouldn't take your advice and be so technially blind.


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

:righton:


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Perhaps it's nice to know, but how it could help these owners of overheated C41 ?


My point, darling, is that not all Cx1 clients are reporting such high temperatures. My client has been operating for 2.5 hours right now and reports 114 degrees. Either mine is an anomaly or else they are not designed to run at 140 degrees or more. Seems to me the only way to know is to collect more data, which was why I bothered to post to this thread. If no one cares, so be it.


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't think the enclosure is designed well for this. They put vents on the bottom and sides and none on top. If I just flip it upside down, it runs 10° cooler. Put it on a side (making sure the vents are not blocked) 15-20° F cooler...
Another crazy idea: Since there is a USB port, I'll try to place it on its side and plug a small USB fan blowing on bottom vents


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

lacibaci said:


> I don't think the enclosure is designed well for this. They put vents on the bottom and sides and none on top. If I just flip it upside down, it runs 10° cooler. Put it on a side (making sure the vents are not blocked) 15-20° F cooler...
> Another crazy idea: Since there is a USB port, I'll try to place it on its side and plug a small USB fan blowing on bottom vents


Probably didn't put vents on top because it would look ugly. You'd see that enormous heatsink on that Broadcom chip.

Most complicated ICs like that one end up being rated for industrial temperature ranges anyway, which puts the upper end at 85 C. It would be interesting to figure out why the temperatures are that different between units -- it must be the way they're being used.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Turned on the client in the spare bedroom the other night for the kids to watch and saw it was 158F.
I felt the box and it was a little warm but definitely not hot. My old HR20-700 case use to get really hot.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

How many ways are there to use a client?  You turn it on, or you turn it off. Other than that, while it is on, it is always streaming video from the server to the TV, or sending remote control commands back to the server. The only "variable" is how often you press the remote control button.

Our unit runs cooler, I assume, because it is velcroed to the back of the TV (face up). That must improve the convection and carries away some more heat.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bobcamp1 said:


> Probably didn't put vents on top because it would look ugly. You'd see that enormous heatsink on* that Broadcom chip*.
> 
> Most complicated ICs like that one end up being rated for industrial temperature ranges anyway, *which puts the upper end at 85 C*. It would be interesting to figure out why the temperatures are that different between units -- it must be the way they're being used.


a) what chip ?
B) seen specs of it ?
c) post a link/extortion from PDF, etc
d) see post #36 with real specs for similar chip from STMicro.S

Seems to me you pick the temp [85C] from capacitors, not from specs of the BCM chip.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

I'll try turning the client in the spare bedroom upside down and see if that makes it run any cooler.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Well the client being upside down in the spare bedroom now reads 142F.


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

Problem solved. Got a small USB powered fan for ~$2, plugged it into C31 (the USB is powered even when C31 is off) and put C31 on top. The temp is now under 100°F.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

But was there any problem to begin with? I haven't noticed any problems with our clients running at the temps they do.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

betterdan said:


> But was there any problem to begin with? I haven't noticed any problems with our clients running at the temps they do.


you should see occasional hiccups: frozen picture, "chirp" sound, etc


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Haven't seen any of that.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you'll if the temp will go up to 150 F


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Nope, temps have been up to 158F before and nothing like that has happened.
That's what I am saying, has anyone actually had a problem because of the temps or is it all just speculation so far?


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

betterdan said:


> Nope, temps have been up to 158F before and nothing like that has happened.
> That's what I am saying, has anyone actually had a problem because of the temps or is it all just speculation so far?


Heat related issues are very difficult to track. You may get random freezes, reboots or other symptoms that may not be obvious. Running at 150°F 24/7 cannot be good for any electronics.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

So once again, were you having problems related to the temps?
The temps do seem high but so far the clients seem to be ok at those temps. I am just curious if anyone actually is having problems because of the heat or not.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

betterdan said:


> So once again, were you having problems related to the temps?
> The temps do seem high but so far the clients seem to be ok at those temps. I am just curious if anyone actually is having problems because of the heat or not.


If you are not an engineer, you better turn on common sense - how long you'll drive your car if coolant temp is high ? Is there any problem ? How long you could live that way without enconteting an issue ? etc ... I gave you max Operation Tem for chips like the used in Cxx, what else you need to predict trouble ?


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

P Smith said:


> you'll if the temp will go up to 150 F


But what temperature exactly is that? Independent temp. sensor inside the cabinet or from one built into the main chip? Without the specs., we are all just guessing, but my point is that most modern day CPUs and FPGAs and combinations thereof are rated to temps. at 85C and above. For the Intel i7, the max. temp is Tcase of 100 C. Other parts of the chip are much hotter, and other parts are much cooler.

The entire top of the C31 (with the cover off) is one gigantic ugly heatsink for that main chip. Seems like D* went out of their way to avoid putting a fan in.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

each chip has own complicity, you must not apply blindly op temp from i7 to the BCM; it's incorrect guess
adding to that, yes you see temp sensor reading not the Broadcom chip itself, so counting that I would say the main chip is hotter


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> If you are not an engineer, you better turn on common sense - how long you'll drive your car if coolant temp is high ? Is there any problem ? How long you could live that way without enconteting an issue ? etc ... I gave you max Operation Tem for chips like the used in Cxx, what else you need to predict trouble ?


My car and these C31-700 boxes, that Directv owns, are two different things. I will be proactive and try to keep the car operating properly since I own it and also it has a gauge telling you when it is too hot. No one, including you, knows what the max operating temp of one of these boxes is before it is too high and will start causing problems. If you find out what that max temp is please post it as it would be interesting to know, although I still probably wouldn't put a fan or anything on it since it isn't my property anyways. 
The boxes are out in the open getting air flow and they still run around 140-158F (in my house) so maybe Directv designed them this way, I do not know nor do you since there is no information about the operating temps except ambient temps and neither you nor I, created these devices.

Like I said before if it dies, it dies. Directv will replace them for free so no skin off my back. If my car dies because of the heat I am screwed.

Hope you can see the differences in a car and a Directv C31-700, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to do that.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

yeah, yeah ... would you tell me exactly what BCM chip inside of the client ? I did ask other ppl who did a picture for First Look, but got deaf ears/blind look


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

No, I am not opening them up since they aren't mine. They are the property of Directv.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

chicken


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Why would I open them up? They are running fine. That's the thing, you say they shouldn't be running fine yet mine and others with temps similar do have boxes that are running ok.
If you really want to know what is inside then call up Directv and tell them you want one. That way at least you'll actually have one in possession to give out some meaningful info instead of just guesses.

Just saying.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

P Smith said:


> each chip has own complicity, you must not apply blindly op temp from i7 to the BCM; it's incorrect guess
> adding to that, yes you see temp sensor reading not the Broadcom chip itself, so counting that I would say the main chip is hotter


I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C. In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.

The part is *Broadcom BCM7340*, as mentioned earlier in the thread. But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C. In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.
> 
> The part is *Broadcom BCM7340*, as mentioned earlier in the thread. But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.


he mentioned two different chips in his post .... which one is in C31 (and in C41) ?

also, again, BCM chips are different class, they are not CPU like Intel's, they are like ST Micro chips as posted before


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## lacibaci (Apr 3, 2008)

The chip is BCM7408. Here is a higher resolution photo:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ihwB9hbTTWLrQvQC9IU78EZw7SpeE1hVlLRwP1Lstkg?feat=directlink

I could not find any (temp) specs. Also, I could not see where the temperature sensor is. Maybe someone can recognize the part from above photo.

Lac


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

can't get anything clicking on your URL 

have you seen on the PCB small chip with 8 pins and labeled "LM75" ?



Edit: got it (on different PC) - thank you. Resolution is not that good to read the BCM model, but I trust you .

Can't tell about other ICs if some of those is temp sensor. Need better picture or short BOM .
By reading labels on the board, I would say Pace hired other company ENTONE to make the C31 client.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

lacibaci said:


> Problem solved. Got a small USB powered fan for ~$2, plugged it into C31 (the USB is powered even when C31 is off) and put C31 on top. The temp is now under 100°F.


See? I told you it was the fan.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C. In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.
> 
> The part is *Broadcom BCM7340*, as mentioned earlier in the thread. But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.


Isn't right time to eat a crow ?  It's BCM7408 !

As to operating temp vs reliability I would recommend you read the short article: http://www.pcpower.com/technology/optemps/


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Just an update...
It's been over a year now with our C31 Clients running at the same temps I posted in this thread and they are still running fine.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

betterdan said:


> Just an update...
> It's been over a year now with our C31 Clients running at the same temps I posted in this thread and they are still running fine.


I'm glad you posted this, because I just started using a C31-700 and its Temp was up to 159. But still no working issues.
Directv Tech supports claims they can Run at 170F before the warning on the screen start.
The box its self isn't even hot to the touch.

I don't understand though, with no power supply inside , why is it so damn hot??


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

http://blog.solidsignal.com/content.php/1732-How-hot-should-a-C31-or-C41-Genie-Mini-Client-get



> [...] the temperature sensor is placed near one of the larger chips. It's normal for this chip to run hot [...] We've seen temperature readings as high as 155 and it hasn't been a problem.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

if you are not reading by URLs, here is a quote for you:


> The life of an electronic device is directly related to its operating temperature. Each 10°C (18°F) temperature rise reduces component life by 50%*. Conversely, each 10°C (18°F) temperature reduction increases component life by 100%.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

P Smith said:


> if you are not reading by URLs, here is a quote for you:


For that quote to be meaningful to this discussion, it would help to know what the expected component life is to begin with. 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? I remember using a Sharp 19" CRT for hours a day for over 20 years without a failure. I'll bet it got pretty hot inside.

At any rate, as someone mentioned earlier, if the customer has the protection plan, what does it matter? :shrug:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

As already stated, the clients will warn you when temp is excessive. You will get a message on the screen.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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