# Failure to get signal on 1 of 3 622s



## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Hello! Kind of a "techie" question:  

I have 3 VIP622s. Two of them are getting all their signals just fine. One is not. Here is what I am getting now:

Sat input 1: 110 and 119 show "OK " 
Sat input 2: RED X under 110 box labeled "Trans" 

And at the bottom of each respective sat box:

Sat input 1 Reception Verified, switch SW64
Sat input 2 reception Error, switch DP Feed

I have checked all the connections to the 622 and outside at ground level. Roof is too high for me to get to. I am thinking something has come loose, connection-wise. Does that make sense?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

On the working receivers, what are you seeing?


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Do you have a DPP 44 switch? I have seen this happen when the power inserter fails on a DPP 44 switch.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Both of the other 622s appear as always-- I can see evrything with no errors at all.

Is there a way-- short of climbing up on the roof (which I can't do; it's 3 stories and I am afrais of heights!)-- to tell what knd od switch I actuallyhave?

Thanks!


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## fredinva (May 10, 2006)

No need to go up on the roof if the other receivers are ok.

Try swapping separators and see what happens.

fred


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## baudilus (Jun 13, 2007)

I'm assuming that they are all centrally wired and connected to a switch - simply locate the connection(s) to the "bad" 622 and swap them with a good one. Does the problem stay with the same 622 or move to the other?

If the problem stays with the same 622, it's either the box itself or that particular wiring between it and the switch.

If it moves to the good 622, then the problem is probably the switch.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Here's an idea. Call Dish for service.

If you don't know anything about the system, can't climb up to the dish, how are you going to fix it?

What type of dish.
1000
1000.2
Dish 500 with a 300?

DP34 switch
DPP44 switch

Separators on the back of the receivers or 2 coax runs?

I mean we might as well shoot our bullets straight up in the air as to speculate this problem.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

I have had a similar problem, even replaced cabling to the problem reciever.
Did a FULL power reset on all recievers at the sametime, and it resolved the issue.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Here's an idea. Call Dish for service.
> 
> I mean we might as well shoot our bullets straight up in the air as to speculate this problem.


Do ya think?

Fact is, I DID call Dish about it, and have for other issues as well. Usually (and I could almost say ALWAYS), I get FAR better results with forum members "shooting into the air" than I do from the "experts" at Dish. Of course, they'll be happy to send some random knuckle-head to my house, and charge me for the privilege! (Sorry to anyone who truly is a wise and competent installer/tech; you've never been dispatched to my house).

Dish service simply is NOT good. I have been on the phone with them several times over the last 6 months and each time they tell me my account is "pending"-- I have had Dish for 2 years. Pretty sure nothing is "pending." Each time they vow to change the info, and each time... well, you get the picture.

So, that's why I came here; to avoid if at all possible a Dish service call (which I would gladly pay for if I was at all confident of a positive experience).

Back to the matter I hand. I do know I have 2 sats- something about my location required a 2nd dish to get some of the channels (the HD ones, I think)


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> I have had a similar problem, even replaced cabling to the problem reciever.
> Did a FULL power reset on all recievers at the sametime, and it resolved the issue.


Thanks Grumpy Bear- so you essentially unplugged al at the same time and then plugged back in? Am I correct?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

eddiwill said:


> Thanks Grumpy Bear- so you essentially unplugged al at the same time and then plugged back in? Am I correct?


Yes, thats what I did. I have had to do it a few times over the last year, normally after a big storm. Don't know why, it works, it just does. Not sure if it will help you are not though, but I hope it does.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

eddiwill said:


> Do ya think?
> 
> Fact is, I DID call Dish about it, and have for other issues as well. Usually (and I could almost say ALWAYS), I get FAR better results with forum members "shooting into the air" than I do from the "experts" at Dish. Of course, they'll be happy to send some random knuckle-head to my house, and charge me for the privilege! (Sorry to anyone who truly is a wise and competent installer/tech; you've never been dispatched to my house).
> 
> ...


Ok I get it. 

Had you hinted to that in your post I would have kept my trap shut.
For all I knew you were too cheap to call dish. 

how many total receivers in the house?
More than likely there is a switch somewhere between the Dish and the receivers.
Could you kindly follow those wires from the dish and see where they go to? Thanks.

This man's horror story is just another reason why I preach to use a local dealer instead of the clown patrol in the vans.
At least with a local guy if he doesn't step up you can go put a foot up his [email protected]#!


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Ok I get it.
> 
> Had you hinted to that in your post I would have kept my trap shut.
> For all I knew you were too cheap to call dish.
> ...


I hear ya! I really wish I had just gone local. It's a major crap-shoot when the subs come out. I did get one guy who I could tell truly wanted to do a good job, but he was sorely lacking in the know-how.

I have a total of three 622s-- 2 are leased and one is purchased. The one I am having issues with is also the one that has that cable feeding a signal to another non-HD set.

There are SO MANY cables, it's just nuts. I do have the splitter (I guess that's what it's called) in the back of the 622 (and the others as well). Took it off, put it back, all of that. On the side of my house, I have this big Terk box with (I think) 8 ports. Oddly, only one cable connects to a port here, though this is the place where all the cables "converge" A real rat's nest. Then it's up to the roof to the 2 dishes.

Thanks for revisiting the problem; truly appreciated!


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Hey if you could snap a picture of that rats nest that would be great.

Sounds like you have a Dish 1000.2 with an additional dish picking up 61.5

Lets rule out a bad separator as I have had a bad one before. Pull the splitter/separator from a good working box and move to the problem box. Run a switch test and let us know if that fixes it.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Yes! I will take a pic this evening-- great idea! Where can I buy a separator? Rat Shack? It would probably be easy than digging behind another box and pulling it! Expensive?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

eddiwill said:


> Both of the other 622s appear as always-- I can see evrything with no errors at all.
> 
> Is there a way-- short of climbing up on the roof (which I can't do; it's 3 stories and I am afrais of heights!)-- to tell what knd od switch I actuallyhave?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes ... do a check switch (no test required) on your working receivers. It will identify the switch and the connections.

That's actually what I was looking for when I asked what your other receivers were showing (since you were discussing the check dish screen on your "bad" receiver).



GrumpyBear said:


> I have had a similar problem, even replaced cabling to the problem reciever.
> Did a FULL power reset on all recievers at the sametime, and it resolved the issue.


Also, if you have a power inserter make sure you kill that too.

EVERYTHING unplugged from power ... reconnect the power inserter, then the receivers. A check dish will be needed on the "bad" receiver.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

I have seen those separators at Lowe's in the TV section made by OnQ.


Duh I forgot Check switch will tell you what switch you have.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Pics are coming... it SEEMS that unplugging all 3 and then plugging them back in has "solved" the problem. For how long, I don't know. Though I am thinking this means the splitter is OK?



I will post the pics of the wiring-- it's a mess-- you'll see another reason why I am not pleased with Dish.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You may need to add a power inserter if it goes out again (inline between the receiver and port 1 of the switch). Driving three receivers draws power!


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

OK. Here is the pic of message I have been getting (and still got right after I did the unplug/replug thing). 

Then I went out to shoot these pics of the cables. When I got back in, I had the other (better!) message.

Don't know if you can tell in the pic, but the one cable-- the one that goes into the side of the Terk device-- comes out and goes into a splitter looking thing that is connected to nothing at all! What's up with that?!

Thanks all you guys/gals-- your help is appreciated!


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

James unless these pictures unveil some hints I don't think he has a switch. Probably just an integrated 1000.2 switch.

Hey snap a picture of your check switch screen also.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Yep DPP 1k.2 just like I thought.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

I thought you said a rats nest?  

That ain't bad!


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

> Don't know if you can tell in the pic, but the one cable-- the one that goes into the side of the Terk device-- comes out and goes into a splitter looking thing that is connected to nothing at all! What's up with that?!


Well it isn't a close enough shot of the Turk piece. Either you had Directv at one time and that was the multi switch, Or you had cable and thats a cable amp, or someone took a shot at OTA broadcast.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Well it isn't a close enough shot of the Turk piece. Either you had Directv at one time and that was the multi switch, Or you had cable and thats a cable amp, or someone took a shot at OTA broadcast.


Yes! I did switch from DirecTV! So that's left over? Is it doing anything?


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Taking up space.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ssmith10pn said:


> James unless these pictures unveil some hints I don't think he has a switch. Probably just an integrated 1000.2 switch.


The DPP 1k.2 changes the plan a little (although a complete power down is still a good fix).

It does appear to support three DPP receivers wired on direct lines from the LNB.


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## PTown (Aug 18, 2007)

Thats the power insertor plugged into the end of the terk. Looks like a dtv 6x8, nice unit you could sell it for a decent price.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

eddiwill said:


> Pics are coming... it SEEMS that unplugging all 3 and then plugging them back in has "solved" the problem. For how long, I don't know. Though I am thinking this means the splitter is OK?
> 
> I will post the pics of the wiring-- it's a mess-- you'll see another reason why I am not pleased with Dish.


Glad it worked, normally the only time I have an issue that requires this fix is after really bad weather or the weak signal from 129, gets TO WEAK. Your wiring is a real mess, others seem to be helping you on it, but what was the install tech thinking and doing?


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

arrrrggghhh! 

Just got a call from my Dad... the dreaded switch message is back. Looks like my "fix" was short lived (just last night, essentially).

Think I may have to bite the bullet and have someone come out.... (sigh).


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

It's got to be that separator.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

eddiwill said:


> I hear ya! I really wish I had just gone local. It's a major crap-shoot when the subs come out. I did get one guy who I could tell truly wanted to do a good job, but he was sorely lacking in the know-how.
> 
> I have a total of three 622s-- 2 are leased and one is purchased. The one I am having issues with is also the one that has that cable feeding a signal to another non-HD set.
> 
> ...


You have a bad diplexor. It's the receiver that also does TV2 in another room right? The other two 622 do not have a diplexor. As for separators going bad, only saw one in the years they made them. Diplexors on the other hand fail more often or perhaps they did not use the approved RED HOLLAND diplexor. How to test?

You need to find both diplexors. There should be one behind the 622 and I believe the other is outside (it looks like a splitter; see it in your picture?). Get one barrel connector. Go behind the questionable 622. Remove diplexor. The line from the wall should feed directly into the separator now. Go outside. Mark wires in such a fashion so you can put it back into the diplexor later. Disconnect the RG-6 from the side of the diplexor that has only ONE port. Put on a barrel connector onto that RG-6. Disconnect the RG6 that feeds the diplexor port labled SAT and connect that wire to the barrel connector.

Do a switch test. Do it twice just in case. If it works, you have your answer.

As for your outdoor wiring. It sucks. No ground blocks visible and no drip loops. Sorry. Hope it works out for you!!

Rick
Freedom Satellite Systems, Cleveland, OH
www.dishmyhome.com


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Good call I forgot all about the Diplexers.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks! If the diplexor looks like a splitter, how can I tell which is which?

The one behind the 622, are you talking about the device that is marked Satellite 1 and Satellite 2 (it plugs *directly* into the jacks in back of the 622)?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

They are labeled.

And the device on the back of the 622 is a seperator, neither diplexor nor splitter. One output of the seperator filters out lower band of satellite channels, the other output filters out the high band.

So you've got seperators, diplexors, splitters and switches.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Diplexer


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Jim5506 said:


> And the device on the back of the 622 is a seperator, neither diplexor nor splitter. One output of the seperator filters out lower band of satellite channels, the other output filters out the high band.


But that's what a diplexer does, and the first Separator I saw was labeled "diplexer" http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2003/3/MVC-021S.JPG . This special usage has been named a DPP Separator I presume to make it distinct from the more common OTA/Sat diplexer as shown in #36.


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Just to follow up.. I finally bit the bullet and got a tech to come up. This guy was helpful and pleasant and seemed to know what he was talking about. Of course, I wasn't experiencing the problem when he arrived...

He suspected the 622 itself and immediately replaced t. Can't say if it's "fixed" or not, as it still isn't "acting up". I can say that all of my signal strengths are higher with this new box, so maybe I am out of the woods?


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## eddiwill (Feb 19, 2007)

Well, swapping the boxes didn't work. have had the problem on several occasions since. Bummer. I guess they will come back and I will say, "maybe it's the diplexor(s)?


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Hi..

When you have 3 622's you need to have 2 DPP44 Switches. Sounds nuts? it isn't. You need to stack the switches when you have that many 622's. It has something to do with the switch archetecture. You can either have 2 622's 1 regular receiver and 1 legacy on port 4 output.. (or you can have 2 regular receivers and 2 622's / 722's).

In order to run 3 622's you need to expand your DPP44 to have a second switch and run the 3rd 622 off that switch. It should only cost you $100 bucks on EBAY but it is what it is.

I've also heard you can also run 4 622's on one DPP44 switch.. but I am not sure if that is true or not. For whatever reason.. you can't run 3 622's at the same on time on the DPP44. .. but four might work... but my bet is you need to stack the switch.

Keep in mind.. you can only add a legacy receiver to the fourth port on the DPP44. (or a regular one). 

Good luck.

Clarkbaker


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Keep in mind.. that EACH 622 used 2 sat. inputs.. so if you have 3 622's.. you actually have 6 receivers.. that will put you over the top on what a 622 can provide.. ... so keep that in mind as you read the chart.. I think thats why it has issues with so many recievers hooked up to it.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Here is the link

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/swconfig.htm


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

So your saying you can't run (3) 622s on a 1000.2?

That's news to me.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

clarkbaker said:


> When you have 3 622's you need to have 2 DPP44 Switches. Sounds nuts? ... In order to run 3 622's you need to expand your DPP44 to have a second switch and run the 3rd 622 off that switch.


What is this based on? It's hardly a common setup, but I don't recall reading other threads where people had difficulty.


> It should only cost you $100 bucks


100 dollars bucks? Guess it's starting to come down.


> Keep in mind.. you can only add a legacy receiver to the fourth port on the DPP44. (or a regular one).


Again, huh?


> so if you have 3 622's.. you actually have 6 receivers..


3 dual-tuner receivers = 3 _receivers_. Those 3 receivers have 6 _tuners_. Read the paragraph above the charts you linked to, and note that the DPP chart is counting _receivers_, any or all of which can be dual-tuner but still count as 1 receiver.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

I don't think it has anything to do with if its a 1000.2 or not.. it has to do with the switch archetecture... specifically the archetecture of a DPP44. Different switches are going to do different things.. my comments can only apply to the DPP44. I saw some earlier posts on the Terk switch.. and I can't comment on those because I haven't worked with those before.

The DPP44 can only handle a total of 2 622's at the same time (for sure). If you get a second DPP44 switch.. link them.. and combine them (use the expansion ports on switch one.. and connect it to the SAT inputs on Switch 2 (also a DPP44) you can hook more than one VIP 622.

I found all this out when I was researching how to connect a old legacy 5000 receiver to my DPP44 to my switch. I found out a few interesting things about the DPP44 during my research. The limitation is a result of the switch artchetecture.. and not the fault of the installer. Switching diplexers won't do anything because three 622's on one DPP44 is beyond the ability of the switch.

1. Only two 622's / or 722's on one DPP44 Switch. You can still have two other regular receivers. On port 4 you can choose beetween a dishpro receiver OR a legacy receiver w/o the need of a converter.

2. These receivers (622 and 722) actually draw TWO receiver id's each off the DPP44. The switch archeticture will only support two receivers that can use diplexers. I've heard you can do FOUR 622's on one DPP44 but that is NOT verified.. and I suspect you will still need a second DPP44 switch.

2. Legacy receivers can be connected to the DPP44 Switch on *Port 4 ONLY*!!without needing a converter before the legacy box.

3. Sat. *129 IS NOT dedectable* by a legacy receiver (very likely)... no matter what port you've linked it too..... so your SAT inputs on a DPP44 need to be 110, 119 and then 148. If you have 129 and sometimes 61.5 in port 3 it won't work.. so make sure 129 or 61.5 are in slot 4 (129 or 61.5) and put 148 in your slot 3. (110 and 119 in slot 1 and 2). Some legacy boxes do work with 61.5.. but not all of them. 129 is definetely a problem on most legacy receivers in slots 1, 2 and 3 on a DPP44. The good news is your newer receivers don't care.. and they will still pick up all the Sats no matter what port they are plugged into. Its a quirk.. but its at least compatable between old and new switches.

Good Luck!! The DPP44 has it querks.. but from what I've read out there.. its one of the better and very reliable switches in the industry.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

BobaBird said:


> What is this based on? It's hardly a common setup, but I don't recall reading other threads where people had difficulty.
> 100 dollars bucks? Guess it's starting to come down.
> Again, huh?
> 3 dual-tuner receivers = 3 _receivers_. Those 3 receivers have 6 _tuners_. Read the paragraph above the charts you linked to, and note that the DPP chart is counting _receivers_, any or all of which can be dual-tuner but still count as 1 receiver.


You have 3 receivers... but they use 6 tuners. Since port 4 is ANOTHER receiver a total of 7 are reserved on the switch.. you are then exceeding the ability of the switch because it can only handle 6 per the switch. Even though you are not using Port 4.. it still has a receiver address associated to it.. and thus that is why 3 622's wont work.

As for the $100 buck switch.. www.ebay.com. I've bought two of them for around $95.00 and that included the power insert. If you buy your stuff directly from DISH or a Dish 'certified' installer you will pay more... but then again.. they hook it up in a professional manner. (hopefully).


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Please point us to your research findings.

[much snippage of already questioned statements]


clarkbaker said:


> 3. Sat. *129 IS NOT dedectable* by a legacy receiver (very likely)... no matter what port you've linked it too..... so your SAT inputs on a DPP44 need to be 110, 119 and then 148. If you have 129 and sometimes 61.5 in port 3 it won't work.. so make sure 129 or 61.5 are in slot 4 (129 or 61.5) and put 148 in your slot 3. (110 and 119 in slot 1 and 2). Some legacy boxes do work with 61.5.. but not all of them.


Some legacy receiver WILL detect 129, but not on the TPs for HD channels which are 8PSK rather than QPSK. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/rcvrcompareold.htm.

Some legacy receivers are not capable of using the SW64/SW21 cascade (x000, D-VHS, DISHPlayer), and thus will not see whatever satellite is plugged into input 4. These are the same receivers that do not recognize 105, 121 and 129 (prob also 118.5) at all, so when there are 4 satellites and one of these receivers, that LNB goes to input 4.

Generally accepted practice, and it even appears in installation guides, is to put 119 on input 1 for all switch types, followed by 110, other DBS (if present), then FSS (if present).

ALL boxes work with 61.5, though not all see the HD TPs, especially those that can get a signal  .


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

I think we got a little off track here.
He doesn't have a DPP44. He has a 1000.2 (Built in Switch)


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

I thought with the Dish 1000.2 you had to use, dish pro plus(dpp) seperators, instead of the standard diplexor. 
Look the same, does the sameting, but I know I had all sorts of issues with a Diplexor that is shown in the picture, when my Parents upgraded to a 722 from a 811, had a dpp one put it on and it worked like a charm.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

clarkbaker said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with if its a 1000.2 or not.. it has to do with the switch archetecture... specifically the archetecture of a DPP44. Different switches are going to do different things.. my comments can only apply to the DPP44. I saw some earlier posts on the Terk switch.. and I can't comment on those because I haven't worked with those before.
> 
> The DPP44 can only handle a total of 2 622's at the same time (for sure). If you get a second DPP44 switch.. link them.. and combine them (use the expansion ports on switch one.. and connect it to the SAT inputs on Switch 2 (also a DPP44) you can hook more than one VIP 622.
> 
> ...


I don't know if this is totally accurate. We have several customers with 3 or 4 622/722's running off of one DPP44 switch. No problems whatsoever. Have you field tested this and actually can reproduce this?

Rick


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

GrumpyBear said:


> I thought with the Dish 1000.2 you had to use, dish pro plus(dpp) seperators, instead of the standard diplexor.
> Look the same, does the sameting, but I know I had all sorts of issues with a Diplexor that is shown in the picture, when my Parents upgraded to a 722 from a 811, had a dpp one put it on and it worked like a charm.


2 totally different things.

The seperator is used to get Sat feed to 2 tuners.
The diplexor is used to get TV2 UHF back out through the RG6 to another room or bring in OTA signal.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

You can put 3 dual tuners on a 1000.2 dish. You can put 4 dual tuners on a DPP44 switch. You will have to use separators to do this. As for the DPP44 being one of the bet switches in the industry. I doubt that. There seem to be more failures than with any other switch that I have installed. The power inserters fail frequently.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

clarkbaker said:


> 1. Only two 622's / or 722's on one DPP44 Switch. You can still have two other regular receivers. On port 4 you can choose beetween a dishpro receiver OR a legacy receiver w/o the need of a converter.
> 
> 2. These receivers (622 and 722) actually draw TWO receiver id's each off the DPP44. The switch archeticture will only support two receivers that can use diplexers. I've heard you can do FOUR 622's on one DPP44 but that is NOT verified.. and I suspect you will still need a second DPP44 switch.
> 
> 2. Legacy receivers can be connected to the DPP44 Switch on *Port 4 ONLY*!!without needing a converter before the legacy box.


This is odd ... and against the manual and every other piece of information we have on the DPP44. If you got these results from "trial and error" I suspect you have a decent amount of error! Were you following the instructions? Were use using the power inserter?

The only legacy restriction on the DPP44 is that the FIRST port needs to be a DP or DPP receiver (as that powers the switch). A legacy receiver can be placed on the other three ports without an adapter (although not all four inputs are seen by all legacy receivers). And YES, you can have four dual tuner DPP receivers with separators on a single DPP44.

"Up to four DISH Pro Plus receivers when each is used with a DP Plus Seperator"
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departm.../content/tech/TechSwitDPP44Text.shtml#general

Back on topic for the 1000.2 in this thread:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/techdepoDish10002.shtml


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Well.. If I've got James Long.. and BobaBird on my posts as not accurate.. or might have errors.. I better have a darn good explaination(s) and some backup about what my experience on the DPP44 Switch has been. I have a few links directly from Dish's website - tech portal that will help explain where I got the information for my posts. Hopefully it will help... and clear up the matter(s). I do believe the information stands in contrast to our experts view... but I do HIGHLY respect there comments and viewpoints... but the comments they made are not reflective of my expereince with my DPP44 switch. Maybe they have another version of the switch? Many reasonable exceptions are possible.

http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/TechSwitDPP44Text.shtml#general

This link will show you that if you have or want a legacy receiver to support on a DPP44 switch.. you can see there are limitations as to which Sat signal goes to what input on the DPP44 Switch. The chart is exactly what I described to be the case given my setup. Hopefully this chart will clairify my point. I specifically was considering 4 orbital locations I get on my Dish 1000 and one 18" dish pointed at 110, 119, 148 and 61.5 so the order of where they enter the switch is a very important consideration so that my legacy receiver will work with the DPP44 switch. This chart - spreadsheet in the link makes that very clearly illustrated how and why and in what 'setup' circumstance this will apply. (given what receivers your working with). Hopefully this will crystalize that point.

Also.. you will note at the first link that the DPP44 will only support TWO dual tuner recievers. You can have FOUR receivers... TWO OF THEM DUAL TUNER receivers if you use DP Plus Seperators on those TWO dual turner receivers. . I discovered through trial and error personally.. that the switch will not support three DP Plus Seperators. You can have two duals tuners using separators so you only have to run one line to each of them .. and then run two lines to a third 622 from the remaining outputs.... but who wants to do that?! not me!! Please note this under "Special Considerations" section of the switches capabilities as the link it makes this point very CLEARLY.

You have to expand the switch with a second switch to support additional separators. The Dish documentation is very clear that once you can support only 2 dual turner receivers.. and 2 REGULAR Dish pro receivers IF you use separators. Notice it also mentions a total of four Dish Pro Receivers.. but is specific that it only supports 2 dual turner receivers.

The article also makes a definition point that they are couting TUNERS not receivers in this technical article.

The switch through my own testing will NOT support 3 separators.. I have not tested 4.. but I don't believe that will work either. Maybe it was bad luck.. or perhaps "errors" in my installation as the respected James Long has put it... but it does appear that this can be researched further.. and that in the documentation provided by DISH shows this is a distinct QUERK of the DPP44 switch.

As for a legacy connection... only on port four.. again I directly site DISH provided documentation to the matter.

http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/TechMiscDishTech.shtml#dpp

I think this is worth additonal confirmation and to find out if others have run into this.. or if it was just my querky installation. I do have very LONG runs to my tuners / receivers (almost 200ft just to the switch).. so it is not in the realm of impossible its 'my bad' given my lenghty situation.. but the documenation provided by Dish does appear to support my earlier assertions.

I believe this clearly shows there are a few limitations of the DPP44.. but the workarounds appear very easy with the addition of a second DPP44 switch. (it also makes sense given the expandability archetecture of the switch).

I hope that is helpful....


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

"Up to four DISH Pro Plus receivers when each is used with a DP Plus Seperator"
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departm.../content/tech/TechSwitDPP44Text.shtml#general

Please read your article that it only will support TWO dual tuner receivers in this very tech article you quoted. That is where I got my information. It will support four receivers.. sure.. but only two of them can be dual tuners.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

clarkbaker said:


> http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/TechSwitDPP44Text.shtml#general
> 
> This link will show you that if you have or want a legacy receiver to support on a DPP44 switch.. you can see there are limitations as to which Sat signal goes to what input on the DPP44 Switch.


It is also the same link I posted - and as Clark posted, the "Up to four Dish Pro Plus" receivers rule is right on that page.



> The chart is exactly what I described to be the case given my setup. Hopefully this chart will clairify my point. I specifically was considering 4 orbital locations I get on my Dish 1000 and one 18" dish pointed at 110, 119, 148 and 61.5 so the order of where they enter the switch is a very important consideration so that my legacy receiver will work with the DPP44 switch.


You cannot be getting those locations (at the same time) without three dishes. The Dish 1000 receives 110, 119 and 129. An individual 18" dish can pick up any one satellite location (such as 148 or 61.5).

INPUT four is not supported for older legacy receivers (and only FSS is supported for newer legacy receivers). But ALL FOUR outputs can connect to a DPP receiver via a separator. Chaining additional DPP44 switches does not fix that problem.



> Also.. you will note at the first link that the DPP44 will only support TWO dual tuner recievers. You can have FOUR receivers... TWO OF THEM DUAL TUNER receivers if you use DP Plus Seperators on those TWO dual turner receivers. .


"Up to four DISH Pro Plus receivers when each is used with a DP Plus Seperator"

Seems simple.



> The article also makes a definition point that they are couting TUNERS not receivers in this technical article.


"Up to four DISH Pro Plus *receivers* when each is used with a DP Plus Seperator" (not tuners)



> I do have very LONG runs to my tuners / receivers (almost 200ft just to the switch).. so it is not in the realm of impossible its 'my bad' given my lenghty situation.. but the documenation provided by Dish does appear to support my earlier assertions.


The documentation is against you. 

Do you have the power inserter installed (on port 1 of the DPP44)? What are the other distances (switch to dishes, power inserter to switch)?


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

James, thanks. I thought I was losing my mind.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Clark, I was going to say this myself, but, from your second link:
DISH Pro Plus receivers are dual-tuner receivers.​Then in your first link, Dish's special considerations:
- Up to two dual-tuner receivers 
- Up to four DISH Pro Plus receivers when each is used with a DP Plus Seperator ​Which is it?

I think "two dual-tuner receivers" is supposed to mean if the Separator (yes, they even spelled it wrong) is not used.


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## bheil (Feb 24, 2006)

I can't add to the discussion about how many receivers on which switch, but I might be able to add something to the OP's question. I have had a similar problem with my 2 622 setup (on a dish 1000). One of the receivers stopped receiving while the other worked just fine. I haven't been able to determine exactly which piece is the missing link (it's not the splitter), but something in the system is sensitive to cold. We've have a stretch of cold weather (and a recent warm up). The problem went away when the temp went up. We are currently due for more cold so it will be interesting to see what happens. And what temp is the trigger!


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

clarkbaker said:


> Well.. If I've got James Long.. and BobaBird on my posts as not accurate.. or might have errors.. I better have a darn good explaination(s) and some backup about what my experience on the DPP44 Switch has been. I have a few links directly from Dish's website - tech portal that will help explain where I got the information for my posts. Hopefully it will help... and clear up the matter(s). I do believe the information stands in contrast to our experts view... but I do HIGHLY respect there comments and viewpoints... but the comments they made are not reflective of my expereince with my DPP44 switch. Maybe they have another version of the switch? Many reasonable exceptions are possible.
> 
> http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/TechSwitDPP44Text.shtml#general
> 
> ...


On a DISH 1000 you might get -35db output. 200ft of RG-6 will bring the signal down to -55db the minimum level before it starts to flake out. The total run from LNB to receiver cannot be more than 200 feet. If you do, you will need line amplification. See a local retailer that handles MDU or big commercial projects for help.

As for running four dual-tuners with separators on a single DPP44 switch... no problem whatsoever. Done it a few times with zero problems.

Rick


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

I have 2 622s and 2 721s all 4 hooked to ddp 44 all work good for over a yr All fed 119/110/118/61.5


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