# Availability and Reliability of 921 ?



## jbrad (Jun 13, 2004)

I've had a 921 on order for over 60 days with no news on a delivery date.
I am wondering - Are there any 921's being delivered to anyone?

Seeing all the problems identified here in the forums, I am concerned about 
the 921 reliability and wondering if I should cancel my order.

Comments anyone?

-= jbrad =-


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Moving discussion thread to Dish DVR forum.

I have no idea about availability - it seems that some retailers are getting 1-2 a week these days, but I have no other information that what I have read. 

As for reliability, for some it's great. For others it's the worst thing that has ever been made. For most everyone else, it's somewhere in between.


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## ayalbaram (Aug 4, 2003)

I've got a 921 in stock if your interested send me a pm. as for the reliability I find mine to be pretty much ok providing I dont play around with the ota to much


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## 4apex (Nov 13, 2003)

jbrad said:


> I've had a 921 on order for over 60 days with no news on a delivery date.
> I am wondering - Are there any 921's being delivered to anyone?
> 
> Seeing all the problems identified here in the forums, I am concerned about
> ...


Mark is right, here in SoCal, all dealers tell me that they have like "10 on order" but they're trickling in by ones and twos. Most also have a waiting list  
Having said that, I just picked mine up last week. I was kinda sorta on a waiting list, but I was bugging the dealer almost daily to see if he had any in. When he did, he told me that some people had put a deposit down on one and he needed to call them up to see if they still wanted it. A few days later, same story. So I figured... if they really wanted it that bad they would have picked it up by then. So I begged him to sell it to me, since I was ready NOW to buy it. He agreed.

As far as the reliability goes, it's been rock solid for over a week. NO problems. There are some peculiarities that surprised me (like no PIP while in HD mode). On the other hand, the unit is built on some decent hardware, because it seems to respond pretty fast - I've had a 721 since it first came out and that unit can get sluggish - not so the 921. The rest of the UI is about the same as the 721 - which in my opinion is good. Oh, and speaking of the 721, the 921 doesn't have the second-tuner buffer swap thing that was just introduced in the latest 721 software - a very nice feature I might add.

Ayalbaram - question on the OTA stuff. First off, I need to get a better antenna. I'm only 17 miles from the towers, but my line of sight is awful and those 'clip on' antennas only pull in a few channels. But my main question was on the guide for OTA. Is there one? I've never heard definitively if there is or isn't. Right now, all I see is "local programming" for all my OTA channels. Is there something I have to do?


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

4apex said:


> But my main question was on the guide for OTA. Is there one? I've never heard definitively if there is or isn't. Right now, all I see is "local programming" for all my OTA channels. Is there something I have to do?


That's the way it currently works. No guide data for OTA. We're all hoping that it will be added sooner rather than later.


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

After having a unit on order FOREVER from Dish Depot, I got called today and told that mine was shipping this week! I've had a 721 and a 6000 since they both came out, and the 921 will replace the 6000 for now. The 6000 I will hold on to in case I want HD in another room "someday".

I hope I get one that works OK!

(fingers crossed)


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

I was on the waiting list for almost a year and a half at Dish Depot and they called me yesterday saying mine was coming in. As for reliability, I am keeping my fingers crossed also.


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## TedKaz (Mar 1, 2004)

This is an exact quote from an email I received from DishDepot on 6-14-04:


"Hello, 

We are receiving a nice quantity of 921s by Thursday this week. We will be contacting those who will be able to get their orders filled today. Thank you for your patience."


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

John Walsh said:


> I was on the waiting list for almost a year and a half at Dish Depot and they called me yesterday saying mine was coming in. As for reliability, I am keeping my fingers crossed also.


Same with me. I think i am just ahead of you on Dish Depot's list. According to Scott at Satellite Guys, they and Dish Depot are receiving a whopping 10 machines each this week.


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

I too have been on the Dish Depot list since January 2003!! I thought they forgot about me, now I know we are all in the same boat. Let's hope we all get good ones!

Good luck to all!


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

jbrad said:


> I've had a 921 on order for over 60 days with no news on a delivery date.
> 
> Seeing all the problems identified here in the forums, I am concerned about
> the 921 reliability and wondering if I should cancel my order.
> ...


Yes, CANCEL.

You asked about reliability yet I see most folks responded with functionality comments.

You have to decide if you want to spend $1000 on a device that will be buggy for it's whole existence but on to your question:

*I went through 3 921's due to HW failures. *

Search the forum - there are a lot of folks that have had to return them due to HW failures.

The 921 is the YUGO of the DVR's and DISH already has a replacement in the pipeline because the 921 is so bad. This could set a record for the most short lived consumer electronics device in history.

BTW, after 6 years with DISH, I droppped them and now have been a happy 3 month long Directv HD TIVO owner. Did not cost me a dime to switch either.

You of course will get folks that disagree vehemently. After all, human nature being what it is, no one wants to admit they made a mistake.
I did and rectified it.

Joe


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

oblio98 said:


> I too have been on the Dish Depot list since January 2003!! I thought they forgot about me, now I know we are all in the same boat. Let's hope we all get good ones!
> 
> Good luck to all!


Better give them a call. There in to filling orders from Feb 2003.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Joe, you'll find hundreds that totally disagree with you, and hundreds that are very happy with their 921's. I love mine and it does everything I want it to do. Some people just like to *****.


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

tnsprin said:


> Better give them a call. There in to filling orders from Feb 2003.


Mine shipped today!


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

deweybrunner said:


> Joe, you'll find hundreds that totally disagree with you, and hundreds that are very happy with their 921's. I love mine and it does everything I want it to do. Some people just like to *****.


Happy is kind of an odd choice of words when taking about this device. 
You really mean hundreds are tolerating it's quirks and learning work arounds.

You own one as did I so you know what I mean by quirks and workarounds so please don't play ostrich.
Hundreds more have chosen not to put up with this on a $1000 piece of equipment.

What is there to agree/disagree with? 
Facts are facts,plain and simple.

1) DISH lied to it's customers when they said that the firewire would be enabled sometime the spring. In early April, Insider information found out that the firewire would never be enabled and was confirmed by 3 of the folks that report directly to Charlie.
Hence the tape over the firewire ports on later shipments and soon a new case that completely covers the firewire ports.

BTW, did you know that Mark is helping DISH under an nda? 
Mark and Scott know about that mess better than anyone.

2) DBSTALK is the definitive web site for all things 921 related. Here you will see that MANY of the folks are like me where they have been getting defective product.

What did Mark post in this exact thread about reliability?

3) The OTA stations do NOT have any program guide data on the 921. You have to use a TV guide and set up manual programs.

4) Programs are missed being recorded due to timers not firing.

5) The 921 came out in December and because of several design flaws that were found after it was released, a new DVR is already being designed to replace it.

There is plenty more but my point is made as these are all documented on this website.
I am not *****ing or arguing - just stating facts.

As I said, we both know that many people are reluctant to admit that maybe they bought something that is crummy but will say they love it. I did.

When I owned the 921, I ignored all it's shortcomings like you are doing and defended it strongly. It was the Firewire fiasco and the news of the new DVR that made me realize that I had made a big mistake so I sold it while I could get full price for it.

In avsforum and dbstalk, I have watched the 921 go from being headline news with LOTS of posts and full of excitement to being a non-entity with a large number of folks switching from DISH for better products.

*Personally, I could care less how people want to spend their money but jbrad asked for comments and I gave him FACTS not opinions or *****ing.*

Perhaps you should give him some facts as well to help him make an informed decision not offer some vague comment that says "I love mine". Speak up and tell us why.


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## Mark S. (May 14, 2004)

JoeQ...

Are you ever going to send me the component cables you promised you would send me that you failed to include with your 921 that you sold to the guy on E-bay???

Remember me....I bought it from him and you told me you would send them to me.

FYI...I dispoed your unit just to be safe through DISH Network and since I got the new one, I have had almost no problems with the new unit and am very satisfied with my 921. Just thought you might like to know. 

Hope your are enjoying your new HD-Tivo as well.

If you are still planning on sending the cables as you stated a month ago, please send me a PM and I will reply with my shipping address for you to send the cables to.

Thanks again,


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark S. said:


> JoeQ...
> 
> Are you ever going to send me the component cables you promised you would send me that you failed to include with your 921 that you sold to the guy on E-bay???
> 
> ,


Actually, you are responding to the wrong person or am I having my leg pulled?

I sold my 921 to a fellow whose first name was Greg and he lives in Pennsylvania

Your name is Mark and you live in Texas.

I also just searched all my email correspondse with that fellow and never was there mention of component cables and for obvious reasons:
The 921 that I bought did NOT come with them.

BTW, this is not the place for this conversation. Use the PM if you have something to say to me like you just did above.

Joe


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## Mark S. (May 14, 2004)

JoeQ said:


> Actually, you are responding to the wrong person or am I having my leg pulled?


JoeQ,

You are correct and I'm sorry to have posted that response in error.

The name of the guy who's original 921 I bought was John Q..... not Joe Q.

It had been so long since I sent him the E-mails I got mixed up on the name.

Sorry to have approached the wrong guy.

Please don't take offense as this was a simple mistake.

Thanks for the correction. I will send him a new E-mail while it's fresh on my mind.

I appologize again for the mistake.

Thanks,


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark S. said:


> JoeQ...
> 
> Hope your are enjoying your new HD-Tivo as well.
> 
> ,


Yes, I am. 100% more than with my 4 month nightmare with those 3 921's.

My TIVO is now being upgraded with a second 300 GB disk. That gives me just over 1/2 terabyte of recording capability. I think 550 GBytes should hold a few weeks workth of those 9 GB/hour HD movies.

Next step is getting it setup via a network over the USB 2.0 port to be able to archive the keeper movies to hard disk or my D-VHS deck.

Yeah, I am REALLY enjoying this fine example of engineering, both SW and HW.

The only thing is that the HD-TIVO is boring

It simply works as it is supposed to so I don't have the excitement like the 921 owner's do of trying out all the workarounds,finding bugs,setting up OTA manual timers from the newspaper TV listing or wondering if it is going to reboot in the middle of watching a recorded movie.

BTW, apology accepted and I edited out my harsh words.

Joe


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## tgerrish (Jan 20, 2004)

JoeQ said:


> ...The 921 is the YUGO of the DVR's and DISH already has a replacement in the pipeline because the 921 is so bad. This could set a record for the most short lived consumer electronics device in history....Joe


Although my 921 has not been perfect, I would hardly go as far as to say that it is comparable to a Yugo. Yes it would have been nice if it had been released with a few less bugs and was easier to initially configure (my setup with a legacy SW64 / 500 & 300 dishes may not be typical though), but overall I am still happy to have it.

I would also like to know where the "DISH already has a replacement in the pipeline because the 921 is so bad" comment is coming from. If there is a replacement being developed as claimed, where is the data to substantiate this?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

the new high def 2 tv output box is definetely on its way. shown at team summit and other places. what the number 922? 942? dont remember

In any case E FINALLY appears to be standarizing on a single platform.

The 500 series receiver group. this is a long needed change of direction. But dont expect too much in the way of improvements for boxes like the 721 and 921. sure they will attempt bug fixes but with them concentrating on the 500 series other designs will get the dishplayer treatment.

Support as really needed no new features. example the dishplayer didint get superdish support and can only get the extended guide from 110. 

I HOPE Es next high def box is a wonderful success or they will impact their reputation permanetely./

Honestly I think their acceptance of a less than acceptable operation had its roots in the original dishplayer. 

Example if every sub who had troubles had demanded a refund and cancelled service E would have invested the needed resources to make the next box near perfect. If only to avoid another sub defection.

Complacency by subs led to charlie not caring which got us where we are today.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Add my name to the 921 "supporters" list. We probably are not "power users" like others (meaning we only have 4 or 5 timers per week, not hundreds  ) etc. We have had no problems with either of our 921s. No missed timers, etc. So far they have been as reliable as the 721s I replaced them with.


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## JoeQ (Dec 17, 2003)

tgerrish said:


> If there is a replacement being developed as claimed, where is the data to substantiate this?


Check out Satelliguys.com - lots of info about it in there.

See:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=888


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

sampatterson said:


> Add my name to the 921 "supporters" list. We probably are not "power users" like others (meaning we only have 4 or 5 timers per week, not hundreds  ) etc. We have had no problems with either of our 921s. No missed timers, etc. So far they have been as reliable as the 721s I replaced them with.


Take a look at this notice:

http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=73

The bug causing failed timers has been identified and is in the process of being fixed. It will take 2 or more weeks to confirm the fix once the testers get the beta. If you haven't been bitten by the timer bug, consider yourself very lucky.

I set maybe 7 or 8 timers a week. Most have failed. That was on my original 921 and a replacement I just got (which I wouldn't have bothered with if only Dish had acknowledged that the timer bug was a global problem with *ALL* 921s as it's a software bug that everyone has--it just has variable penetrance, hence the need for a long beta testing period). Meanwhile, in giving up my original 921, I gave up a recording I've had for a some time and wanted to keep. As Dish announced that they were reneging on their Firewire promise for the 921, I wasn't able to dump that program to DVHS.


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## bytre (Sep 10, 2003)

I've had a 921 since January. Its great - because it records and timeshifts HD. It sucks because sometimes it doesn't record what I expect it to, the software has usability problems, and some desirable features are missing. 

I'm generally happier with e* than I was with directv, but I wish I had a tivo quality product.


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## laker (Dec 19, 2003)

jbrad said:


> I've had a 921 on order for over 60 days with no news on a delivery date.
> I am wondering - Are there any 921's being delivered to anyone?
> 
> Seeing all the problems identified here in the forums, I am concerned about
> ...


The vsll.com website has been updated & states the 921 is "IN STOCK"


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