# Extremely loud commercials



## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

This problem started a couple of months ago. Some commercials (always seems to be Directv programming-related) are incredibly, unbelievably loud. I'm not talking about the type of "loud" commercials that have been going on for a while - I'm talking about so loud that the audio is completely distorted, everyone in the house scrambles for the remote, the dog starts barking, etc. This is "damage my equipment" type loud. The only time I've ever experienced anything this loud before was when the cat once sat on the remote. What is strange is that even after significantly reducing the volume with the remote, the audio is still distorted as if something upstream is really overpowering something with the signal. So distorted that it's difficult to understand even with the volume adjusted. Not all of the Directv commercials do this, some are just the "normal"-type of loud, but this still happens a couple of times every hour.

I have an HR20/700 with the audio sent to a Pioneer VSX-53TX with an optical cable. I'm not sure what to do about this - the DVR box has been rebooted with no affect on this. Any suggestions? I have to watch TV with the volume turned way, way down all the time now.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

MLB commercial is like this for me.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

Besides the equipment you are using, I suggest identifying the Channel, the Ad and possibly the time of the day. I have seen few ads a bit loud but nothing like you are describing.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

This has happened at different times of day. This afternoon I am flipping around among several NFL Sunday Ticket channels and it has happened several times - just a little while ago on channel 714-1. I've also noticed it on ESPN. I will start making a log.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

Well, I guess I was wrong that the commercials were "Directv programming". Here is what has happened over the last several minutes:

Channel 714-1
All times Central

5:33 NFL Legacy (distorted)
5:33 USA Football.com (distorted)
5:34 Lexas Hybrid (distorted)

So all 3 commercials during that break had the volume problem. The next 2 commercial breaks were perfectly fine:

5:36 Ford F-150
5:36 Couples Retreat movie
5:37 Pizza Hut
5:37 Budweiser
-----
5:39 VISA debit
5:39 Sprint
5:40 Wal Mart
5:40 Ford F-150


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## TreyS (Aug 22, 2006)

It's done on purpose to make you look at the TV and watch the commercial.

Some new receivers now have "Dolby Volume" to correct the problem.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

TreyS said:


> It's done on purpose to make you look at the TV and watch the commercial.
> 
> Some new receivers now have "Dolby Volume" to correct the problem.


This is not the normal "we want you to watch the commercial so we're going to make it louder" complaint. I know what that is. This is way, way louder than that - so much so that the audio is grossly distorted. What would be the point of getting you to watch a commercial if you couldn't understand what was being said?

Just had another "NFL Legacy" commercial but this time at normal volume, so it's not always the same commercials apparently.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Try connecting the audio directly to the TV rather than through your audio receiver. Does the problem still occur?

Not a solution, but possibly narrowing the location of the problem.


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## CT_Wiebe (Oct 7, 2007)

There used to be a bunch of extra loud commercials (~20dB louder than the average). However, most of those seem to have been toned down a little (or have been dropped).

The worst ones (IMHO) in the last month or two have been the DirecTV commercials promoting their various PPV wrestling programs. These have been the loudest I have ever had (they don't seem to be distorted, just right at the maximum volume limit). The worst part is that the programs, that they are being shown on, are running at lower than normal volumes. In addition, the most violent (and disgusting, to me) ones are being shown during "G" rated programs in the latter part of prime time.

billsharpe -- It doesn't matter whether I'm using my AVR or going direct to my TV set (they are actually worse when going direct to the TV via HDMI).


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## pretzelbag (Dec 31, 2007)

CT_Wiebe said:


> The worst ones (IMHO) in the last month or two have been the DirecTV commercials promoting their various PPV wrestling programs.


Yep, these are eardrum killers for me. I see them when watching NFL Sunday Ticket games, and when the local affiliate is supposed to run their ads (just before start of the 3rd quarter is one slot, I think), DirecTV blasts my ears with their promos.

-pretzelbag.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

+1 on this. The Directv commercials are just so loud that I have to jump up and press Mute. I really don't get the idea behind these adverts because people either mute them lower the volume to nothing or change the channel. In any case it certainly turns me off from the companies that are involved. 

Examples of these stupid ads are thing like "Head On". After seeing that ad repeat the same loud message over and over I swore that I would never ever buy that product, as a matter of fact I avoid watching stations that play the ad.


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## Flyrx7 (Dec 26, 2007)

Leave it to D* marketing. This is a very annoying "feature". It get's pretty painful when I have the headphones on and can't reach the remote fast enough.


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## Bofurley (Oct 11, 2006)

I believe DTv is one of the loudest commercials!!


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

I'm not sure how to emphasize this - it's difficult to explain "volume" verbally. I know all about "loud" commercials. Having a commercial come on that's considerably louder than everything else and having to grab the remote and turn the volume down or hit the mute button and then complaining to the spouse - "I sure wish they wouldn't play commercials this loud", etc.

This is WAY, WAY, WAY louder than that. I'm talking "grab the remote before the speakers blow" loud. And the audio is grossly distorted like someone took a $2 radio and turned the volume all the way to the max. This is clearly a technical problem of some sort here and not some 'marketing decision' by Directv.

I watched all of Monday Night Football (channel 206) and the problem only occurred once: at 7:58 Central on a Vegas.com commercial. I need to get some audio cables to try connecting directly to the TV and see if the problem happens there.


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## wmj5 (Aug 26, 2007)

I've been with D* since 1995 and the volume controle is supposed to work as long as you use the tv speakers but I and a lot more people use av receivers, you can order a terk vr-1 volume controller from jr.com in N. Y., I was looking the other day and you could get one for $23.00 or $26.00 they are 4" square and 1" high, but the only way I can get it to work is go out of your D* receiver to your av receiver, if you use the audio out on the tv and put it between there and your av receiver your speakers will pop ever now and then, but if you will hook it from receiver to receiver it will work, I've used it for many years.


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## idigg (May 8, 2008)

I never watch live TV. I DVR everything I need/like to watch and skip ALL commercials. Do the same, seriously.


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## idigg (May 8, 2008)

wmj5 said:


> I've been with D* since 1995 and the volume controle is supposed to work as long as you use the tv speakers but I and a lot more people use av receivers, you can order a terk vr-1 volume controller from jr.com in N. Y., I was looking the other day and you could get one for $23.00 or $26.00 they are 4" square and 1" high, but the only way I can get it to work is go out of your D* receiver to your av receiver, if you use the audio out on the tv and put it between there and your av receiver your speakers will pop ever now and then, but if you will hook it from receiver to receiver it will work, I've used it for many years.


What? I use the DirecTV RF remote and control my Sony AV receiver with it as far as the volume is concerned. You need to setup the AV receiver as an Aux device under remote settings.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

idigg said:


> I never watch live TV. I DVR everything I need/like to watch and skip ALL commercials. Do the same, seriously.


Once again, this is missing my point entirely. I want to fix this problem. Even if I did skip the commercials myself I would have that first shattering second of the commercial when it sounds like my speakers are going to explode off the wall, the dog starts barking, my daughter who is trying to sleep upstairs wakes up, etc. Even with the remote in my hand constantly I would not always know when a commercial is about to air to be able to FF *before* the commercial even starts.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

bgbruce said:


> I
> This is WAY, WAY, WAY louder than that. I'm talking "grab the remote before the speakers blow" loud. And the audio is grossly distorted like someone took a $2 radio and turned the volume all the way to the max. This is clearly a technical problem of some sort here and not some 'marketing decision' by Directv.


The Dynamic range on some of your equipment may be adjusted wrong or some component like Audio amplifier IC's or Transistors is being biased incorrectly due to a bad component. What comes to my mind is something like when a signal gets amplified through a transistor and the Bias voltage is low (due to bad resistor etc.), the transistor does not get switched on by the normal bias voltage but if you cranks up the volume the bias voltage gets high enough that when its combines with the audio signal the Transistor is seemingly operating OK, then if the Audio signal goes up by just a little bit more the Transistors goes into full saturation and the output signal is pegged and distorted.

How high do you have the volume up for normal sound?
Most equipment that I own sound ok at about 20% volume level.

If you have the volume at 10% do you hear anything?

Is it just D* or does other equipmnet hooked up to the TV have this kind of problem?

Do you have the HR2X set for the correct Audio output in the menu?


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

I have a problem hearing dialog in movie sound. Consequently, I crank up the volume. Then, when a commercial comes on with loud music or 'normal' dialog it's painfully loud.

--- CHAS


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

just like many already mentioned,directv has one of the loudest commercials but i've heard louder. just like the op, commercials that are so loud the sound is distorted to a point you can't understand what is being said! both of my sets have the automatic volume feature but it's not enough.


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## racermd (Dec 18, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The Dynamic range on some of your equipment may be adjusted wrong or some component like Audio amplifier IC's or Transistors is being biased incorrectly due to a bad component...
> 
> Is it just D* or does other equipmnet hooked up to the TV have this kind of problem?
> 
> Do you have the HR2X set for the correct Audio output in the menu?


I can't speak specifically to EVERY setup, but I know in my own case that my equipment is NOT to blame unless the HR20-700 line as a whole is affected. The results are consistent - no matter how I connect any of my 3 DVRs to my combination of TVs and audio receivers, I get some commercials that are so loud as to be uncomfortable to listen to. It does this on recorded content reliably, so it's a fairly easy test. It appears to be a content or delivery issue with D*, and I would have hoped that someone appropriate within the organization had already paid some attention to this matter when it first appeared a few months ago.

I get the distinct impression that the entire content delivery chain of D* is asleep at the switch. This issue, combined with the video levels issue I keep seeing here (and that I am much less sensitive to), leads me to believe that D* staff just don't care about such BASIC signal quality issues.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I dont think it's the receivers, while I agree they get loud, it's not as bad as you have said yours is. I think you have some kind of Dynamic range setting in your TV that is set to max.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Vontage, almost as bad as Directv ads


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

HIPAR said:


> I have a problem hearing dialog in movie sound. Consequently, I crank up the volume. Then, when a commercial comes on with loud music or 'normal' dialog it's painfully loud.
> 
> --- CHAS


Welcome to the world of Dolby Digital Sound 
AC3 and all the rest have huge Dynamic range, that's to give the Theater experience of a Blast being super loud. Idea is that if you have the volume up loud enough to hear the conversation, an explosion will be proportionately loud. Works great in the Theater but at home it will drive you nutts! Worst yet the commercials take advantage and crack there volume up and add to the problem.
Thats pretty much why I cut the volume on my amp for mids and treble down and keep the subwoofer at a mid setting with the lowest frequencies cranked up. I like the low rumbles but hate the loud bangs.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

+1 on the topic. It is bad. In fact yesterday I was in the kitchen when one blasted out and I went running for the TV to lower the volume and I had to lower it at least 10db, possibly more. It was on Discovery Channel, but happens on other channels as well and is not just D* commercials, although D* commercials and related services are the prime offenders.

The incident last night was beyond annoying, it was possibly physically dangerous because of the extreme volume.


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## CT_Wiebe (Oct 7, 2007)

While we were watching the Discovery Health channel, we had a *DirecTV Cinema* commercial (*8:44PM, Sept. 30th and 12:45AM, Oct. 1st*), that was 20dB higher in volume than the regular program material. This practice is extremely annoying.

If DirecTV want me to watch their new DirecTV Cinema package, then this is definitely *not* the way to do it. As others have said, any ads that have overly loud comercials turn me off completely. I do not want (or need) to be *shouted* at.

When this practice was more commonplace, DirecTV blamed the networks. That has been corrected. Now it is DirecTV, itself, that is at fault. They can't blame anyone but themselves.


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## HerntDawg (Oct 6, 2008)

Quote CT_Wiebe
If DirecTV want me to watch their new DirecTV Cinema package, then this is definitely not the way to do it. As others have said, any ads that have overly loud comercials turn me off completely. I do not want (or need) to be shouted at.

My 2 cents

I do not want to be shouted at by my tv either, it has nothing to do with your audio receiver. It does have to do with the channels dtv decides they will broadcast it on though. It is bad advertising in my opinion, i just hit the mute and look somewhere else.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The Dynamic range on some of your equipment may be adjusted wrong or some component like Audio amplifier IC's or Transistors is being biased incorrectly due to a bad component. What comes to my mind is something like when a signal gets amplified through a transistor and the Bias voltage is low (due to bad resistor etc.), the transistor does not get switched on by the normal bias voltage but if you cranks up the volume the bias voltage gets high enough that when its combines with the audio signal the Transistor is seemingly operating OK, then if the Audio signal goes up by just a little bit more the Transistors goes into full saturation and the output signal is pegged and distorted.
> 
> How high do you have the volume up for normal sound?
> Most equipment that I own sound ok at about 20% volume level.
> ...


It doesn't matter whether the volume is initially low or high. My wife listens to TV at very low volume, yet the problem happens when she is watching as well (but not as loud of course). Haven't had this problem with other audio equipment on the same receiver. You'll have to explain exactly what you mean by the last question - I don't see anything on the HR20 menu about setting audio output.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

+1 I have experienced this too. I noticed that whenever these start my Pioneer Elite reciever switches from Dolby Digital to Pro. The audio goes back to normal (Dolbe Digital) once the commercial is finished. These are so loud that I feared one or more of my speakers would be blown. Even at low volume this audio was extremely distorted. Shame on you, DirecTv, wake up and fix this problem!


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## bubbers44 (Jan 23, 2007)

My Yamaha had problems with loud commercials and especially blue ray player being too quiet so when you switched back to satellite it blew you out of the room.

I have had it over a year and finally spent a couple hours with the manual finding the menu and was able to balance the HDMI inputs so now the blue ray puts out a balanced output with satellite. Also I turned the volume up as high as I would ever want and set the max volume control to the -15 db position from 0 so it can't blast us out any more if a commercial is too loud. It still will be louder though. It was so loud it overloaded the amp and shut down.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Directv ad startled me at 2am off the couch yesterday. Thought it was an earthquake.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

11:27 am (Central) today ESPN HD DirecTv commercial for wrestling. Same as before - when it went to this loud commercial the audio receiver switched from Dolby Digital to Pro Logic. Any suggestions on who at DirecTV we can contact about this?


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

4:23 pm PDT, Ch 231, Commercial for Directv Cinema, approx 12dB above the levels of programming and other commercials.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

I connected analog audio cables directly from the HR20 to my TV in addition to the existing digital cable to my receiver. When one of these loud/distorted commercials came on, I immediately muted the receiver. The analog audio was normal volume and not distorted. So the problem is only with the digital audio routed to my stereo receiver. So this problem is not simply Directv playing the commercial too loud because it would have been louder in both digital and analog, not just digital only. 

I also saw the same thing that mjbvideo reported. When the loud/distorted commercial came on (a Directv PPV commercial), the receiver switched from Dolby Digital to Pro Logic II (according to the receiver display). But earlier I saw a different commercial that also switched to Pro Logic II that did *not* have the loud/distorted issue. So I still am not sure if this is a problem with the HR20 or my Pioneer receiver.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

The same thing happens on my Onkyo 806, so I doubt it is your receiver.


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## tbpb3 (Dec 10, 2006)

From what I read the F.C.C is going to get involved with the loudness issue. Shame they cant regulate them self's


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

tbpb3 said:


> From what I read the F.C.C is going to get involved with the loudness issue. Shame they cant regulate them self's


Well, I think this is a technical issue rather than a regulation issue since it only affects digital audio and not analog audio for the exact same commercial.

I have verified several times today while watching NFL Sunday Ticket that the receiver always shows 'Pro Logic II' when the distortion/volume problem happens, whereas it is 'Dolby Digital' usually.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Is there a way to reduce the volume of Pro Logic II in a receiver? If I could I would just lower the volume at my end.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

bgbruce said:


> This problem started a couple of months ago. Some commercials (always seems to be Directv programming-related) are incredibly, unbelievably loud.


 Welcome to the world of marketing people who don't watch TV thru an AV receiver.

This is not a D* issue... It's a broadcaster marketing ploy. I would love to have one of those guys over at my house when a Geico commerical comes on. Oh and what about those annoying Dish Network Turbo HD commercials..... That DirecTV commercial where he is talking to the Planet of the Apes character... etc.... The Dish commercial rattles the house....


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

D* commercials seem to be the worst offenders and it happens on D*, so how is it a broadcaster issue and not a D* issue?


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

john18 said:


> D* commercials seem to be the worst offenders and it happens on D*, so how is it a broadcaster issue and not a D* issue?


 Because it happens on E* and OTA as well. D* just transmits what broadcasters send them.

Now if your response was how is it not D*'s fault in regards to their own commercial's volume... then yes your correct in that regard.

But my perception is, most of the time I see posts/threads like this, people are blaming STB's.... Or even the up-link people..... It's just not the case.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

In my view the biggest offenders are D* itself, D* PPV programming and Hughes Net. There are occassionally other offenders, but those three probably are 95% of the ones that seem to cause problems. for me.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

I tried out some suggestions that someone on a forum for various audio receivers discussed with me today. My A/V receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR806. I also have a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter and used it to adjust the final output volumes as I made changes in the system in order to judge the effect of any changes made.

The bottom line is that no matter how I configured both the A/V receiver and the HR22-100 I had a minimum of 2-5db loudness gain on the offending commercials and a maximum of 5-8dB if no changes were made.

Here is what I posted at the other site.



> I sat down for 45 minutes playing with the configurations once I found a couple of Directv commercials that jacked the audio up and then sat there and tested with a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter. Since there is about a 4dB difference in output volume between whether I had Dolby Digital on or off in the satellite box I adjusted the receiver's volume every time I switched so that apparent volume changes were detectable.
> 
> If I configured the satellite box for Dolby Digital On and made had Sleep Mode off the offending commercials, all coming across with Pro Logic II signals, were 5-8dB louder than the regular programming and other commercials in both Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II. If I turned Dolby Digital off I could get the difference down to 2-5 dB, but the offending commercials were still louder than the other material.
> 
> The Sleep Mode did not appear to have any effect, so it seems that the options are either Dolby Digital from the satellite receiver wither being on or off and dealing with the problem.


I should not need to turn Dolby Digital off in my HR22-100 to at least lessen the volume gain of the offending commercials by 3dB. Also, the problem very much seems to be with D* commercials. In this case the two commercials that I used were a D* Scheduler commercials followed immediately by a D* commercial for a concert on The 101. Both commercials did change the audio mode detected by my receiver from Dolby Digital to Pro Logic II, but other commercials do that without the apparent volume gain that occurs with many D* commercials.

In my view this is not a problem that should be able to be within the realm of Customer Service because it isn't an equipment or reception issue. It is a broadcast issue.

Hopefully someone at D* is reading this and it really needs to be fixed. If you are with D* and reading this feel free to send me a PM so that we can discuss it.


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## LOCODUDE (Aug 8, 2007)

Noticed this ultra high commercials myself. Really very annoying.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

My problem is not strictly a matter of "volume". As I mentioned before, even if I turn the volume down to a barely audible whisper, the sound is still distorted severely. So I don't think there is anything I can do by adjusting volume down in any manner. This is a technical problem of some sort, not just a 'broadcaster marketing ploy' to get people to pay attention to their commercial - what would be the point of distorting the audio of a commercial so much that you could hardly understand it? Why is only the digital audio affected and not the analog audio? I realize that many of the posters in this thread (not all) are assuming this is just another complaint about loud commercials but, as I have tried to explain several times, this is not that.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

Okay, something different just happened. On channel 206 (ESPN) at 8:32 Central a commercial for Bosley hair restoration came on that had the volume/distortion problem. But, *during *the commercial, the volume suddenly reverted to normal and the distortion went away. So the problem went away in the middle of the commercial (actually about 20 seconds from the end). That's the first time I've ever noticed that - probably because I usually mute the thing completely until the commercials are over. But every other time that I've checked, the problem always began/ended at the beginning/ending of a commercial.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Do you have any way of knowing if your receiver is switching from Dolby Digital to Pro Logic II (or some other mode) when this is happening?

I have not had a distortion issue. I have had a volume issue and actually had my subwoofer fail. I can't factually attribute it to the volume levels we are discussing here, but my subwoofer died and is in the shop. Fortunately I have two months left in my warranty.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

My receiver switched to Pro Logic II at the beginning of the Bosley commercial and at the same moment the volume increased by many times and was distorted (as I said earlier in this thread, it sounds like someone cranked the volume all the way to max on a $2 radio). During the commercial, the volume suddenly dropped to normal and the distortion went away. The receiver still said it was Pro Logic II. This is completely reproducable by rewinding the DVR and playing the commercial again.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Yeah, that was how I was testing mine earlier today.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

Had another instance, this time with a Hairclub for Men commercial. But this time the problem started at the beginning of the commercial, and ended at the end of the commercial. The receiver says Pro Logic II as it always does when the problem happens.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Have you had Pro Logic II commercials which have not been overly loud?


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

I can verify what bgbruce said about the 8:32 Central ESPN commercial. I did send a complaint to DTV but they said the usual BS about setting your TV for automatic gain....and they'll forward my complaint to management. I gave them a link to this thread. I don't expaect them to check it out.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

john18 said:


> Have you had Pro Logic II commercials which have not been overly loud?


Yes, I mentioned that in post #35.


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## DesertWind53 (May 29, 2007)

Help may be on the way.. interesting article:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/10/08/why-are-tv-commercials-are-so-loud/


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

I don't understand why D* can't simply adequately control either the volume or the format in which the offending commercials are delivered to the users, especially since a significant number of the offending commercials are their own commercials.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

john18 said:


> I don't understand why D* can't simply adequately control either the volume or the format in which the offending commercials are delivered to the users, especially since a significant number of the offending commercials are their own commercials.


Of course they can control it, they just choose not to because the compnay has requested that it remain loud and if D* changes it they may lose the commercial and the cash that goes with it.

That's why I posted the Double Dipping thread. We not only pay for the programming but we also have to watch the Adverts and deal with any crap that advertisers want to throw in. If we had the British system we would just be paying for TV and get shows that had no adverts. but ohh some would say that would be socialism so lets not go there.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

For those of you who are whining about commercials being loud... Thats not what this is about.

The op is referring to commercials BLARING. As in, the speakers are gonna blow. The rest of you are just talking about commercials being louder than programs.

To the OP: As a test, try using non-digital audio.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

I am discussing some commercials that are quite loud and could be considered blaring. That is a better word to use to describe some of the over-loud commercials so thanks for using that word. 

Now, will D* please do something about this?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

CJTE said:


> For those of you who are whining about commercials being loud... Thats not what this is about.
> 
> The op is referring to commercials BLARING. As in, the speakers are gonna blow. The rest of you are just talking about commercials being louder than programs.
> 
> To the OP: As a test, try using non-digital audio.


What do you consider Blaring? If everyone in my house hold is scrambling for the remote I consider that Blaring, if my wife actually turns off the TV with the front Panel button because she cannot locate the remote in time I consider that Blaring. So yes we all consider it Blaring. The OP is talking about possible speaker explosions, thats a TAD  higher than just Blaring.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Agreed.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

If I have time I'll post a you tube video that'll include the sound meter. I've tried twice to report this to DirecTV but I don't know how to get past their front line. Does anyone have an email that'll take me direct to their engineering or master control? It's those darn inserts that they put in. They must not be checking the digital audio. Is anyone running their ship or is it all automated?


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> What do you consider Blaring? If everyone in my house hold is scrambling for the remote I consider that Blaring, if my wife actually turns off the TV with the front Panel button because she cannot locate the remote in time I consider that Blaring. So yes we all consider it Blaring. The OP is talking about possible speaker explosions, thats a TAD  higher than just Blaring.


I don't have the right kind of adjective to describe it, but I have tried to explain multiple times in this thread that I am *not* talking about something that a broadcaster or service provider is doing on purpose to garner attention for a commercial. I am talking about some kind of technical problem that is practically blowing my speakers off the wall and that distorts the audio. This problem does *not* happen in an analog feed that is connected simultaneously from the same HR20 on the very same commercial (see previous posts of mine in this thread). But my posts keep getting lost in the general complaint about overly loud commercials (that I also hate, but is really not what this thread was about).


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

bgbruce said:


> I don't have the right kind of adjective to describe it, but I have tried to explain multiple times in this thread that I am *not* talking about something that a broadcaster or service provider is doing on purpose to garner attention for a commercial. I am talking about some kind of technical problem that is practically blowing my speakers off the wall and that distorts the audio. This problem does *not* happen in an analog feed that is connected simultaneously from the same HR20 on the very same commercial (see previous posts of mine in this thread). But my posts keep getting lost in the general complaint about overly loud commercials (that I also hate, but is really not what this thread was about).


SO.
If you use Composite audio you don't have this problem. But if you use HDMI or Digital Optical you do?

The 'glitch' is either in your DirecTV receiver or your stereo receiver. If your stereo receiver is otherwise fine then contact DirecTV and tell them your receiver is having a technical malfunction.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

I don't see how so many different stereo recievers could go bad at the same time. It has to be something upstream starting with the HR2x and then to the master controller. I think DirecTV needs to go to their local Best Buy and purchase a stereo reciever for their control room - then they will be able to monitor their digital outputs via a standard consumer device.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

Another piece of data: I checked SEVERAL of the "Short Cut" replays from NFL Sunday Ticket that air on channels 704-1, 705-1, etc, and every one that I checked has this problem. This includes the commercials AND THE ACTUAL BROADCAST ITSELF. So this issue is apparently not limited to commercials. The non-HD broadcasts on channels 704, 705, etc, do NOT have the problem.

I'm not sure what Directv might do for me since my HR20 is out of warranty by now (it is over 2 years old).


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## mworks (Oct 8, 2007)

Directv needs to be called out on it because they can definitely stop doing this and prevent other stations from doing it on their systems and soon may have to comply with the FCC who is trying to change the rules.

The way the FCC rules work now is that the peak of a commercial can be no higher than the programming. The problem with that is they are not exceeding the peak of the programming. If you meter it, it will say the commercial is no louder than the program.

What they are doing is cheating. They are using DRC or dynamic range compression to emphasize the sounds that people hear the best which causes people to hear it louder even though electronically power wise it looks normal. That is the reason most tv sets with volume monitoring will not catch it. They look for peak increases not what-u-hear type increases. It is the same tech that some tv call perfect volume or loudness equalization where it makes quiet scenes louder and dulls loud ones.

The FCC on Sept 16 has started sending out memos to stations informing them that they are going to switch to the what-u-hear method of controlling volume and not the power level. Can't wait for it happen !

The bill is called the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation Act or CALM. HR 1084
1 .shall not be excessively noisy or strident;
2. shall not be presented at modulation levels substantially higher than the program material that such advertisements accompany; and
3. [their] average maximum loudness&#8230; shall not be substantially higher than the average maximum loudness of the program material that such advertisements accompany.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

bgbruce said:


> Another piece of data: I checked SEVERAL of the "Short Cut" replays from NFL Sunday Ticket that air on channels 704-1, 705-1, etc, and every one that I checked has this problem. This includes the commercials AND THE ACTUAL BROADCAST ITSELF. So this issue is apparently not limited to commercials. The non-HD broadcasts on channels 704, 705, etc, do NOT have the problem.
> 
> I'm not sure what Directv might do for me since my HR20 is out of warranty by now (it is over 2 years old).


I believe, since this is a technical malfunction of the machine and not a damage that you caused, that you will be charged $20 for shipping (assuming this is a leased box), and a renewed agreement once you activate your replacement receiver.

OR, you can sign up for the protection plan, and have it replaced for free. Normally, you have to wait 30 days after signing up for the plan before making a claim and if you cancel in under 3 months you get backcharged, however, I think DirecTV is waiving some of this right now for reasons unbeknownst to me.
Try calling up and asking a rep. Let them explain it. If you dont like what you're hearing don't argue, just say thankyou, wait a while, and call back. If you get the same story multiple times, its probably true.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

As far as we know his D* receiver is fine and replacing it will not solve anything. Additionally it may cause him to re-incur a two year agreement, which I think is ridiculous.

My HR22-100 does the same thing and I don't think swapping the box will solve the issue.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

john18 said:


> As far as we know his D* receiver is fine and replacing it will not solve anything. Additionally it may cause him to re-incur a two year agreement, which I think is ridiculous.
> 
> My HR22-100 does the same thing and I don't think swapping the box will solve the issue.


Really?
Because if you've been paying attention then you'd notice that what we're referring to is most likely a hardware issue (MAYBE a software issue). What everyone else is whining about is a broadcast issue.

Loud commercials are obnoxious, that's one thing. Randomly jumping up the db scale to unsafe levels is a different thing.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Some of the better A/V units come with maximum volume level controls, preventing a "sudden blast" of audio beyond a certain point. I have that in my Home Theater location, but not the others.

That said...the issue is that there are not standards for the production of commercials (such as standard or maximum acceptable audio levels), unlike those found for network television programming.

There should be, and obviously from the growing reports of these annoying experiences....the sooner the better.

I have written an letter to the FCC about 6 weeks ago on this very topic, asking them to investigate and consider addressing the issue. I gave examples of 6 dates, times, and companies having these actual commercials (as examples).

I have not heard anything back yet, but I suspect the more they hear about this....the higher probability that some day standards are set.

DirecTV and all other providers are simply transmitting the video/audio as it arrives for broadcast. I've seen the same thing on Dish, Comcast, TWC, and other providers.

The makers of these "audio blast" commercials are the culprits. I'm also thinking of writing to a few of the companies making these...to let them know how annoying they are.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The makers of these "audio blast" commercials are the culprits. I'm also thinking of writing to a few of the companies making these...to let them know how annoying they are.


Send your first letter to D* because its their own commercials that are the main culprit.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> Send your first letter to D* because its their own commercials that are the main culprit.


They were on my list of examples....

So was one of the Dish network ads...


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Really?
> Because if you've been paying attention then you'd notice that what we're referring to is most likely a hardware issue (MAYBE a software issue). What everyone else is whining about is a broadcast issue.
> 
> Loud commercials are obnoxious, that's one thing. Randomly jumping up the db scale to unsafe levels is a different thing.


First, the latter.

Second, why do you continue to pick a fight with me? If you don't like my description of terms than ignore me as a misspeaking fool and move on. The others seem to understand what I am (poorly) attempting to communicate.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CJTE said:


> Because if you've been paying attention then you'd notice that what we're referring to is most likely a hardware issue (MAYBE a software issue).


It's an original content issue.

Those commercials are filmed and recorded based on the advertiser's requirements, and unfortunately....some our recorded with high DB audio.

All providers, not just DirecTV, simply play them as they are recorded, and in turn, broadcast from the source.

Unfortunately there are no industry-wide standards for the production of commercials.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> I dont think it's the receivers, while I agree they get loud, it's not as bad as you have said yours is. I think you have some kind of Dynamic range setting in your TV that is set to max.


I have the same problem and fear for my speakers as well as my eardrums. Its NOT my tv. I believe it IS my receiver. I wish they would fix it. It is so annoying I'm thinking of returning to Dishnetwork.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Sat4me said:


> I have the same problem and fear for my speakers as well as my eardrums. *Its NOT my tv*. *I believe it IS my receiver.* I wish they would fix it. It is so annoying I'm thinking of returning to Dishnetwork.


It's neither of those... it's the *broadcast*, especially when you go from a Dolby Digital show to non-dolby commercial. Commercials have historically had higher volume that the shows that they are inserted to. Why? Well think about it... they want to make sure you pay attention when the commercial comes on.

It's annoying, but it happens on D*, Comcast, and even OTA.


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## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

MartyS said:


> It's neither of those... it's the *broadcast*, especially when you go from a Dolby Digital show to non-dolby commercial.


Dolby has a tool that can solve this problem. It's called Dialnorm and addresses loudness control through the digital broadcast chain.

http://www.dolby.com/professional/pro_audio_engineering/solutions_broadcastloudness.html

Its description is down towards the bottom.

When I first heard about Dialnorm I thought it was foolproof. Unfortunately, local stations have already figured out how to defeat it by using a different calibration for commercials.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

This isn't an issue with commercials only, as I mentioned earlier. The NFL Sunday Ticket short-cut replays all have the same volume problem during the actual broadcast of the game itself, as well as the commercials, but only on the HD channels. The SD channels don't have the problem.

I have another HD Directv box in another room (not a DVR) and that one does not have the volume problem on either the HD or SD channels. So this problem is limited to my HR20/Pioneer combination. So I can watch the exact same channel in both rooms at the exact same time, but only one has the extremely high volume issue, the other one is at normal volume.

I should go through the exercise of moving the Directv box to the other receiver to see what happens, but it's a major, major hassle to get to them to redo all the cables. I'm not certain what that would prove anyway.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

bgbruce said:


> This isn't an issue with commercials only, as I mentioned earlier. The NFL Sunday Ticket short-cut replays all have the same volume problem during the actual broadcast of the game itself, as well as the commercials, but only on the HD channels. The SD channels don't have the problem.
> 
> I have another HD Directv box in another room (not a DVR) and that one does not have the volume problem on either the HD or SD channels. So this problem is limited to my HR20/Pioneer combination. So I can watch the exact same channel in both rooms at the exact same time, but only one has the extremely high volume issue, the other one is at normal volume.
> 
> I should go through the exercise of moving the Directv box to the other receiver to see what happens, but it's a major, major hassle to get to them to redo all the cables. I'm not certain what that would prove anyway.


Until there are enforced regulations to combat this issue, there are only two reasonable cures:

1. Record everything and FF through the commercials
2. Get really good at anticipating commercials and using your mute button.

I didn't include dynamic range limiters, which can be purchased because they defeat the entire purpose of DD (high dynamic range).


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

hasan said:


> Record everything and FF through the commercials


Doesn't help if the issue also happens in the program itself.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

MartyS said:


> ...it's the *broadcast*, especially when you go from a Dolby Digital show to non-dolby commercial. Commercials have historically had higher volume that the shows that they are inserted to. Why? Well think about it... they want to make sure you pay attention when the commercial comes on.
> 
> It's annoying, but it happens on D*, Comcast, and even OTA.


Speaking as a broadcaster, we want people to watch commercials, not be annoyed by them. A change in level of a certain threshold makes folks pick up the remote, and broadcasters wish you didn't have the option of opicking up the remote, but the reality is that everyone does. We want everything the same level so that you will tolerate and watch the commercials.

The folks who _make _the commercials, all compete with each other to make their commercial stand out. Up until recently, with analog delivery, there has been no practical way to combat the dynamic range upcompression techniques used by producers. Auto level control has not been smart enough to be able to cope with it, and it is expensive and hard to justify to those who hold the purse strings (which I guess can be interpreted as "we want everything the same level, we just don't want to have to pay dearly for it").

But this will change. Digital delivery has the tools built in to fix this problem, once and for all. Broadcasters have been lax in implementing this for a variety of reasons. But there is legislation pending, which is motiviating the industry to police itself before that could happen, so I expect a serious fix to this problem within the next couple of years.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

TomCat said:


> ...so I expect a serious fix to this problem within the next couple of years.


Can someone change that to months or, preferably, weeks?

Thanks for view, TomCat.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Speaking as a broadcaster, we want people to watch commercials, not be annoyed by them. A change in level of a certain threshold makes folks pick up the remote, and broadcasters wish you didn't have the option of opicking up the remote, but the reality is that everyone does. We want everything the same level so that you will tolerate and watch the commercials.
> 
> The folks who _make _the commercials, all compete with each other to make their commercial stand out. Up until recently, with analog delivery, there has been no practical way to combat the dynamic range upcompression techniques used by producers. Auto level control has not been smart enough to be able to cope with it, and it is expensive and hard to justify to those who hold the purse strings (which I guess can be interpreted as "we want everything the same level, we just don't want to have to pay dearly for it").
> 
> But this will change. Digital delivery has the tools built in to fix this problem, once and for all. Broadcasters have been lax in implementing this for a variety of reasons. But there is legislation pending, which is motiviating the industry to police itself before that could happen, so I expect a serious fix to this problem within the next couple of years.


Thanks for the explanation, TomCat... I really appreciate someone with experience and professionalism jumping in here and talking about the problem. It's good to know that the broadcasters are trying to do something.

In our house, since I control the remote, I'm the one who gets yelled at when a commercial comes blasting through the speakers... and then Mrs. Marty realizes that it wasn't me... and then spends the next several minutes talking about that advertiser and how she'll never buy the product (I haven't seen her list, but there must be a ton of advertisers blackballed :lol.

Hopefully it will be less than a couple of years and they can get this fixed soon... otherwise the feds may just step in when some Senator's wife starts doing what my wife is doing!


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

Well, it took a couple of hours to deal with all the cables and settings, but I recorded something that has the audio volume/distortion problem onto my HR20, then moved the HR20 into another room with a TV and plugged it in there. This other room is also using an optical digital audio cable connected to a Pioneer receiver, but a different model. Bottom line is that the audio played perfectly fine there! So the problem has to be in the original receiver. Not sure what to do with the receiver to resolve this issue (I tried unplugging/replugging, then re-running the auto volume/levels setup, but that did not help). But I guess this forum isn't the right place to talk about this since it seems my HR20 is fine.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

bgbruce said:


> Well, it took a couple of hours to deal with all the cables and settings, but I recorded something that has the audio volume/distortion problem onto my HR20, then moved the HR20 into another room with a TV and plugged it in there. This other room is also using an optical digital audio cable connected to a Pioneer receiver, but a different model. Bottom line is that the audio played perfectly fine there! So the problem has to be in the original receiver. Not sure what to do with the receiver to resolve this issue (I tried unplugging/replugging, then re-running the auto volume/levels setup, but that did not help). But I guess this forum isn't the right place to talk about this since it seems my HR20 is fine.


To everyone whom I've told to shove things somewhere...
I apologize if you took it offensively. However, what the OP is dealing with, and what almost everyone is is talking about, are 2 different things. Very few people seem to have gotten that.

To the op:
Thankyou, for finally taking the time to try the DirecTV receiverin another room and confirm the source of your problem. Glad to hear it.


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## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

CJTE said:


> However, what the OP is dealing with, and what almost everyone is is talking about, are 2 different things. Very few people seem to have gotten that.


I guess it was the title of the thread: "Extremely loud COMMERCIALS" that confused me.

Anyway, glad you got it sorted.


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## bgbruce (Sep 13, 2006)

At the time it was only commercials where I had seen the issue. NFL Sunday Ticket replays are the only cases where it has happened outside of commercials and I didn't discover that until much later.

Someone else on AVS Forum is also seeing the same thing with Directv. It could be that there is something funky about the signal (it *seems* to always be with commercials/programs that are inserted specifically by Directv) and my older Pioneer receiver isn't handling it properly but my newer one is.

I've had the exact same hardware for a couple of years and this problem only started in the last 2-3 months, so something changed somewhere.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

bgbruce-
What model Pioneer receiver's do you have? Which one works - which one doesn't? Mine is also a Pioneer. It's an Elite model and it cost a lot of money. I still don't buy the theory that all of a sudden all these receivers have audio problems. I still think it's some obscure setting in DTV's encoder that is causing this problem. Note that it isn't consistent. Most of their commercial inserts are fine but a few of them are not. Maybe they have a novice encoding some of them and they don't have a clue on how to do it properly. 
I've encoded lots of movies using Adobe Premiere and there are quite a few settings for the audio - most of which I don't understand ,so I don't monkey around with them - I just leave them at the default settings.


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## Takeuchi (Feb 12, 2008)

I have a Pioneer Elite receiver I've had for about five years, and I have the same experience. If I watch in another room via composite cable, it is fine, but in the primary room with speakers driven by the receiver, I get blasted with certain commercials.

Not a matter of the commercial being a bit louder. More like severely overdriven to the point of severe distortion. I'm talking about blasted. I'm glad I have newer speakers because if these were older ones, I'm sure I would have lost some by now. As it is, I'm worried about the damage to my speakers.


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## redsoxfan26 (Dec 7, 2007)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ATSC/TV/ATSC_Agrees_-_No_More_Loud_Commercials/3694

encouraging news


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## BK89 (Sep 18, 2007)

My neighbors say this is great news.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

Yes, that's good news but I I believe this issue is some sort of technical problem somewhere in the DTV system. This is speaker busting loudness on specific DirecTV commercial inserts. Not all stereo recievers have the problem - but my super expensive Pioneer Elite does and I have a problem with that. I think DirecTV needs a Tech Czar or a Lt. Cammander Data or a Mr. Spock .... 
I've asked this before, but does anyone have an email address to their engineering department? I'm not going to waste my time with their CSR or online contact form. Been there, done that. All you get is a standard form email anyways.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

T101HD (Dan Patrick Show in HD) commercials (from D*) are waaaaay over the top loud. I fell asleep for a nap, and the first commercial nearly brought me off the couch...now that's loud!

I can't imagine what they are thinking, setting a level that high.


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## DakotaKid (Jun 25, 2004)

I have the same issues. It happens with both of my receivers, one hr20 & the other an hr21. I notice it mainly while watching NFL Sunday Ticket. 

As other posters have said, it is speaker blowing loud. I normally have my Pioneer Elite volume set at -20. When the offending commercial comes one, I have to go down to at least -36 to have it at a reasonable level. I first really noticed it during this football season.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

mworks said:


> Directv needs to be called out on it because they can definitely stop doing this and prevent other stations from doing it on their systems and soon may have to comply with the FCC who is trying to change the rules.
> 
> The way the FCC rules work now is that the peak of a commercial can be no higher than the programming. The problem with that is they are not exceeding the peak of the programming. If you meter it, it will say the commercial is no louder than the program.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. Well stated.

Of course D* is not the only problem, but they are PART of the problem.

If these companies can't police themselves someone else will be happy to do it.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

mworks said:


> The bill is called the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation Act or CALM. HR 1084
> 1 .shall not be excessively noisy or strident;
> 2. shall not be presented at modulation levels substantially higher than the program material that such advertisements accompany; and
> 3. [their] average maximum loudness&#8230; shall not be substantially higher than the average maximum loudness of the program material that such advertisements accompany.


 #3 has been my ***** for years. One peak explosion in the program and then the whole commercial is as loud as that peak. Then they say the commercial is no louder than the show. True but what a load. Can't wait for this law to take effect.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I hope its enforced, cause its needed.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> I hope its enforced, cause its needed.


Several TV manufacturers have a sound leveler built in the TV(check your owner's manual).


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

The sound leveler feature in TV's don't help me with by expensive surround sound audio system. The root cause is DirecTv....they should rely on band-aid fixes such as sound leveler technology in TV's.
By the way - I thought the problem had been fixed because it was a couple weeks since I came across the problem - but suring an episode of Everyone Loves Raymond on TBS it was BACK!
DirecTv should add this problem to their long list of techical issues that need to be fixed.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

mjbvideo said:


> The sound leveler feature in TV's don't help me with by expensive surround sound audio system. The root cause is DirecTv....they should rely on band-aid fixes such as sound leveler technology in TV's.
> By the way - I thought the problem had been fixed because it was a couple weeks since I came across the problem - but suring an episode of Everyone Loves Raymond on TBS it was BACK!
> DirecTv should add this problem to their long list of techical issues that need to be fixed.


You can hope DirecTV fixes it or google sound leveler and select from many products that may be able solve your problem.

Dish has the same problem and this month they will be downloading software from SRS technologies to try and solve this problem.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> Several TV manufacturers have a sound leveler built in the TV(check your owner's manual).





mjbvideo said:


> The sound leveler feature in TV's don't help me with by expensive surround sound audio system.


IIRC that feature only works on signals that pass through the TV tuner. I'm too lazy to go back and look in the manual:lol:but I do remember it would not work in my scenario so I just gave up.


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