# Hopper OTA glitches



## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

Brand new old dish customer. I had dish for 10 years fro. 2000/2010 switched to directv and now I am back. All new equipment I have a hopper and 4 Slave Joey . System works well but my ota buffers glitches pixilated very annoying. My ota is rock solid going into all of my tv’s I have it on all of them as a bad weather back up. It will be playing great and all the sudden it will glitch and I get a message on the screen signal lost and it says signal strength is weak and searching.. they it will go back to being ok. I have the dish adaptor the real deal not a knock. Off. I also have one from my old directv system does the same thing. What gives is the tuner weak in the hopper? Also is there a way to cut down on the delay for picture audio.. I have the hopper in the family room and a Joey in the kitchen and when and if the off chance they are on the same channel the echo is pretty bad I have to mute one of the tv’s. That does not happen that often but when it does it is bad. I know the Joey pulls tuning off the hopper is the reason for the delay....


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Only solution is to have a good OTA connection to the Dish OTA module as well.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

There will always be a perceptible delay between the Hopper and the Joey due to the Hopper processing the signal into MOCA and the Joey processing the signal out.

It's physics and a faster processor might help but probably not.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would investigate OTA RF signal for multipath condition...
perhaps different OTA antenna, with/without amplifier, redirection … will help you


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

I have an omnidirectional antenna it's old but it's been rock solid it picks up something like 35 stations so I have to think the signal is strong. it doesn't move it's mounted in my attic. I don't get why all the sudden it shows weak signal and then it's good. it will be good for 1 whole day and the next day it will do it every 10 minutes or so. really off when it's acting up I switch over to the TV tuner same station and it's completely fine. just really odd. I was thinking that the usb tuner is is just cheaply made???


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would start thinking about a life around you.
You never know what kind of equipment begin works nearby... new building would reflect RF waves and bam! Multipath is here ...
Think broadly


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Agreed. There are a lot of environmental conditions that can change from day to day. Not just the big permanent changes such as new buildings in or near the signal path, bur such things as the weather.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

I have had this antenna for ever it's an omnidiretinal antenna from radio shack mounted in my attic. it's works flawless even on an old picture tube TV. when it buffers/pixilated and screws up I can switch the input to TV tuner right away and I have a rock solid picture I find it had to believe it's a antenna issue and not the antenna dongle/usb thing or a software glitch in the receiver? I really like saving $12.00 a month on my service but the glitching is a drag when your taping something or watching a live TV show...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would try to mount the antenna outside, at least temporary... to test better condition of OTA reception.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Are you using a splitter on the TV outlet right before the Hopper's OTA dongle ? If so - there's your problem. Amp the signal enough to make up for the splitter (about 3-5 dB should do it.).


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The symptoms you describe sound like multi-path, your omni-directional antenna is receiving the station from a direct and a reflected wave that confuses the tuner and it drops out. This was never a problem with analog TV but is a "feature" of ATSC.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

scooper said:


> Are you using a splitter on the TV outlet right before the Hopper's OTA dongle ? If so - there's your problem. Amp the signal enough to make up for the splitter (about 3-5 dB should do it.).


Yes there are 3 of them in line before the hopper they are all low signal loss one the antenna signal goes to 6 tv's in the house there are never more then 2 of them on at a time realy more then one. the omni directional antenna I have has an amplifier as part of the hook up but it's not labled the amount of gain it has. I may just take them out of the system and run it right from the amplifier right to the OTA dongle. along those same line of questioning I may be over due for an antenna what is a good brand that will not break the bank I am about 35 miles away from the signal local signal transmitters I get 35+ channles off this omni antenna I have now and I would want something that has the same performance and obviously not have to move it every time I change channels lastly the splitters I have are Brand name Regal back when I ran al the RG6 thoigh the house they got the best rating times and technology changes so what do I want? 
Thank you for the replies guys/Gals!


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Rather than change out antenna - FIRST I would rewire the OTA so everything is home run - come out the antennas amplifier output, to a n-way splitter (or a couple of them that give you the number of outlets you need), then a cable direct to each room / coax jack that you need an OTA signal at. You may need to put a distribution amp right before the splitter(s) to make up for splitter losses - the best thing is to keep the amount of amplifier gain to just barely cover distribution losses.

If you do decide to replace antenna, it will likely be more directional than what you have now. Hopefully the channels you watch are all in the same general direction and by placing a directional antenna outside, you can beat the multipath down.

The new cable should also be RG6. You may need a pre-amp (to duplicate the setup on the omni). You will probably need a compass and a pretty good idea where the channels are coming from - there are sites on the web that can help here (www.rabbitears.info is one).


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

no to sound like a layman but an N-way splitter you mean N = amount of "out" ? 
Any preference to brand of splitter? I have a single run going to the receiver right now and I will see how it works I have been having an issue OTA first thing in the Am the last 2 days will see how it goes tomorrow. I do like these receivers VS the DirecTv Genie and slaves we had with directTV


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Exactly - say you have 4 locations where you have OTA tuners (TVs or on the Hopper) - , then N=4. 
Not really any brand preference - just whatever you can find should work. Finding 2,3,4 way is easy, others might be 6 or 8. You may have to use a 2 way out to two 4 or 6 way. This is when you wold want a distribution amp before the 2way.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scooper said:


> The new cable should also be RG6


I wouldn't push that high... RG-59 is adequate for OTA signals.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

P Smith said:


> I wouldn't push that high... RG-59 is adequate for OTA signals.


No it isn't, especially considering his distance from the transmitters.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

good antenna (perhaps with RF amplifier) is the must,
not RG-6 ; it's real overkill for 35 miles distance;
while the omnidirectional kind I would replace it to bowtie type with a reflector


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> I wouldn't push that high... RG-59 is adequate for OTA signals.


No, thank you. I will stick with RG-6. Even though I am closer to my area's towers than he is to his. RG-6 is not excessive.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

All the cable in my house is rg6 I built the house and ran it int9 every room while it was still in studs. All the wall connectors are los loss with the blue insulator in them. Today it has been rock solid with jus5 a straight run. Will see if it stays that way. If a low gain loss splitter it not that important what about the amplifier any brand for that 3-5 DB is not that much extra push.. any model or brand? What about the antenna if i5 is good for now once it warms up I will venture up there to change it possibly I am outside of Buffalo ny i5 will no5 be warm again till May! Lol.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

The blue insulators in your splitters / barrel connectors is not lowloss - it's 3GHz.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

What ever they are back in the day they were labeled low loss. this was 15 years ago or so. … they may be what you say they came to me in a clear plastic bag from ebay cable supplier of some kind! 

What about an exact amplifier model# and make and antenna model/make


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I would look at ChannelMaster / WineGard for both of those items.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

well went 3 days with out a glitch from the antenna amplifier straight to the OTA dongle. so I put 1 splitter back in the line a 2 way 2.4 Ghz and it seems fine still wait a few days I need that 2 way splitter at the minimum. I may have to split it again once and one leg to the dongle and then the rest split further down the line past the OTA dongle.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

No - no- far better to do the "Home Run" setup to each TV/ OTA tuner.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

At some point there has to be a splitter I have multiple tv and at some point I have to split the signal was figuring after the ota dongle i don,t need multiple antenna to run each tv. I will look like one of those tin foil hat can radio guys with antennas poking out of every nook and cranny of their house. Lol


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

tcpuccio1 said:


> At some point there has to be a splitter I have multiple tv and at some point I have to split the signal was figuring after the ota dongle i don,t need multiple antenna to run each tv. I will look like one of those tin foil hat can radio guys with antennas poking out of every nook and cranny of their house. Lol


A 2 way splitter loses 1/2 the signal going out to TV. A second 2 way splitter off the first reduces the signal 1/2 again so you only have 1/4th the signal going to each TV. What you need is an amplified 4 way splitter.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

there is a back story to the amplifier and what type to use this past summer DirectV cut our local CBs station and I had 2 very old Vizio flat panel tv's my local station changed the frequency that they broadcast earlier this year as well and I couldn't get that channel so I got a channel master mini 4 amplifier and tried to get it to work on the vizio tv's still nothing and in turns I lost about 1/2 of the channels I had learned prior not sure what the deal was over amplification that had 8DB gain. maybe it's my outdated antenna in conjunction with that amplifier that I lost channels? turns out the tuner in the vizio wasn't capable of learning that new frequency so I sent the thing back. so trying to find a amplifier that is in that 3-5 DB range seems like maybe the ticket but I can't find one in that range...


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

You probably can't find a 3-5 dB amp . 10 dB is probably the smallest you can find.

Your omnidirectional antenna has a builtin amp. The secret is to balance out so all locations get an equal signal. THAT is why the homerun setup is recommended. ATSC is very tempermental on either too much or too little signal. If / when you find the sweet spot, it works very well indeed.

As far as the TV tuner unable to learn the new frequency - that's more a function of your OTA reception system than the TV tuner.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

I found a 4 way 1Db amp at Lowes an RCA brand it looms different then the picture they have on their site I am going to give it a try this after noon as see if it works. it has a low voltage input adaptor the picture on their site the thing looks like it was designed in 1990. the one they actually in the store looks like it at least from this decade.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

Well hooked up the 10 dB amp and it cut down on my signal about 10% on a couple of channels and watching nbc last night it was glitching.. I guess I am just not desttin split the signal off this antenna. The dongle needs a super strong signal The tv in that room has an awesome picture and no glitching.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

tcpuccio1 said:


> Well hooked up the 10 dB amp and it cut down on my signal about 10% on a couple of channels and watching nbc last night it was glitching.. I guess I am just not desttin split the signal off this antenna. The dongle needs a super strong signal The tv in that room has an awesome picture and no glitching.


Were you combining the amplifier in the antenna with the 10 Db RCA amp?


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

No the out from the antenna amplifier into the in on the rca amplifier and the a straight run out of the rca amp to the dongle no splitters at all and it lot some signal strength. It only see,s to have effected my nbc feed I switch to it I get a message acquiring signal and a delay till it shows live tv it does say strong signal 96% but it glitches a bit not as bad as it was. The other channels are fine


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

SInce your antenna CAME with the builtin amp - you have to use that. What you have to do after that is get a good enough but not too good signal into the other amp, and then from there to all TVs.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would un-power antenna amp and use only other one


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

is it possible that it's an over amplification issue. I don't have to use that amp it's inline to the antenna and it has an arrow on it that point to the antenna and to the "tv" not sure if it turns on something in the omni or it's just that and Amp ? I may try removing it and seeing what happens to the signal.. and just use the RCA amp I bought


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

You don't read very well, do you ?


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

yes I can read.... Look I appreciate the help don't appreciate sarcasm. The amp for the antenna is not built into it. it's in line just not sure if it amps the signal or turns one something inside the antenna plus an amp . I unplugged it and it didn't make a difference in the signal for the channels. I took it out of the line all together and put the antenna line into the on the RCA amplifier and lost 3/4 of the channels. so I hooked it all back up and going to deal with it till it's not 5 degrees outside here anymore! Thanks again for your suggestion I'm going to just deal with it it's a $12.00 a month savings with out the local package added onto programming. I actually get 39 channels on OTA and the local dish package only add about 1/2 that amount.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

tcpuccio1 said:


> yes I can read.... Look I appreciate the help don't appreciate sarcasm. The amp for the antenna is not built into it. it's in line just not sure if it amps the signal or turns one something inside the antenna plus an amp . I unplugged it and it didn't make a difference in the signal for the channels. I took it out of the line all together and put the antenna line into the on the RCA amplifier and lost 3/4 of the channels. so I hooked it all back up and going to deal with it till it's not 5 degrees outside here anymore! Thanks again for your suggestion I'm going to just deal with it it's a $12.00 a month savings with out the local package added onto programming. I actually get 39 channels on OTA and the local dish package only add about 1/2 that amount.


Let's see if I understand your problems.
You have a Hopper3? and 4 joeys an old Radio Shack unamplified Omni-directional antenna in the attic in Buffalo, N.Y.

Your problem is with DISH dual OTA dongle poor reception.
Your Directv tuner is not compatible don't use it.

Psmith guessed at MULTIPATH
post #5 perfect description of multipath strong signal from multiple directions. In decibel notations 3dB halves or doubles signal being processed. A 10dB amplifier would output about 3 times the signal fed to it.

Post #12 it doesn't matter how many TVs are turned on as long as the splitter is in line it is causing signal loss.

Post#13 Try following scooper you may already have the distribution amp. How many 150 degree summers has it spent in the attic? www.tvfool.com is another web site that can help you point the antenna to get the channels you want. Winegard and Channel Master are 2 old brand names that have each been in the antenna business over 50 years.

Post #23 the color of the insulator in the wall plates just designates the signal frequency that it is designed to pass. Blue is 3ghz (satellite) White/clear is 1 ghz (TV antenna).

Give us your exact location or at least your 5 digit zip code and we can be more accurate in suggestions for TV Antennas. Buffalo tells me you have VHFhi and UHF signals to receive.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

the antenna is almost 20 years old. Yes I know. It's omni so it doesn't matter which direction it's turned the amp is not internal it goes inline and was part of the antenna kit. It at the very top of the peek in my attic. I looked on channel masters and the furthest big 3 network broadcast signal is 18 miles from my house. my zip is 14086 I changed the fitting on the wall plate to a clear one for the antenna only. I can run a straight shot from the antenna amp to the tv and the signal is really pretty good the station that is the furthest away from me ABC the signal strength is strong according to the OTA tuner in settings around 90% the other 2 are in the high 90% range. I feed multiple tv's that are not hooked upright now. I need to split the signal to them somehow. I got a rca 10Db amp the amp that came with the antenna is going into the RCA Amp 'In" and I have a straight shot from an out to the OTA dongle. I loose almost 10% signal strength if I use that amp. I I put a splitter and run it from a splitter to the dongle obviously the signal is weaker that was before I got the RCA AMP. I do not have any splitter right now other then what is in the RCA amp. the ports I'm not using are capped. I think I just need to go with a new better technology antennal from this century! the thing that kills me is that I had multiple splitters in line with my old Directv system feeding all my Tv's and never have any kind of buffering pixilating nothing apparently the dongle needs a super clean super strong signal to work properly. I'm fine with just doing a straight run to the dongle . I only used the OTA antenna as a back up in crappy weather or when the dish has 3 feet of snow on top of it.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

tcpuccio1 said:


> the antenna is almost 20 years old. Yes I know. It's omni so it doesn't matter which direction it's turned the amp is not internal it goes inline and was part of the antenna kit. It at the very top of the peek in my attic. I looked on channel masters and the furthest big 3 network broadcast signal is 18 miles from my house. my zip is 14086 I changed the fitting on the wall plate to a clear one for the antenna only. I can run a straight shot from the antenna amp to the tv and the signal is really pretty good the station that is the furthest away from me ABC the signal strength is strong according to the OTA tuner in settings around 90% the other 2 are in the high 90% range. I feed multiple tv's that are not hooked upright now. I need to split the signal to them somehow. I got a rca 10Db amp the amp that came with the antenna is going into the RCA Amp 'In" and I have a straight shot from an out to the OTA dongle. I loose almost 10% signal strength if I use that amp. I I put a splitter and run it from a splitter to the dongle obviously the signal is weaker that was before I got the RCA AMP. I do not have any splitter right now other then what is in the RCA amp. the ports I'm not using are capped. I think I just need to go with a new better technology antennal from this century! the thing that kills me is that I had multiple splitters in line with my old Directv system feeding all my Tv's and never have any kind of buffering pixilating nothing apparently the dongle needs a super clean super strong signal to work properly. I'm fine with just doing a straight run to the dongle . I only used the OTA antenna as a back up in crappy weather or when the dish has 3 feet of snow on top of it.


Try a Channel Master CM-4220HD UHF antenna $59.99 free shipping on ebay aimed about 240 degrees. They claim a 180degree viewing angle. SIGNAL DISTRIBUTION: go from antenna to existing distribution amp. from dist. amp. go to a 2way splitter. Output of 2 way splitter to RCA 4 way splitter & another 2 way splitter. You now have 6 outputs to send to tvs.
WBBZ ch7 & CFTO ch9 may not come in they are VHF stations. That is my educated guess good luck.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

MOst OTA antennas work better OUTSIDE - not in an attic. Being in the attic will reduce signal strength, AND it can introduce the multipath problem (especially if you have metal duct work up there). 

I have used that 4220 in a forest at 23 miles from the antenna farm in Raleigh NC. I needed to use a preamp, then about 40-75 feet later I had a distribution amp pumping into a 6 or 8 way splitter to various TVs including satellite receiver OTA tuners. 

I would try it on the VHF stations as well, but if reception isn't working - you may need an antenna that has a VHF section or a separate VHF antenna. My preamp had 1 output, a VHF input, and a UHF input since I had a dedicated VHF antenna as well as the 4220

No matter what they told you, your omnidirectional antenna really isn't.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

If you put a 2 way splitter in with one leg going to the Hopper and the other leg going to a second splitter with 4/6/8 outputs for the TV tuners it will give you the best signal to the Hopper tuner and hopefully adequate signal to each TV's tuner.

If you assume the Hopper tuner is weaker, it is best to provide it with the strongest signal you can while also sending signal to the TV tuners. The above configuration sends a signal with about -3.5dB to the Hopper (signal @ 1/2 fiull strength from antenna) and the other 1/2 is parceled out to the TV Tuners.

It is not a recommended solution to put two amplifiers in a system, it tends to amplify the background static more than one good amplifier would, sometimes you lose channels that way.

A two way splitter gives you approximately 1/2 of the input signal out the two outputs.

A four way splitter gives you 1/4 of the input signal to each output. And so on.

You also might look at getting a bow tie type antenna (the more bows the better) and remove the reflector screen since it looks like ABC is to your south and CBS is north, perhaps you can get both that way.

If you need more signal use this antenna 
Xtreme Signal 8-Bay Bowtie Outdoor HDTV Antenna 65 Mile VHF/UHF (HDB8X) from Solid Signal 
and set the bays at 180 degrees from each other, one north, one south. This will get you a lot more signal than your omni and cover most of your stations..


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I'll agree that USUALLY you want only 1 amp in a system, but I needed what I had for cable distance / splitter reasons, The whole trick to it is making sure your end result has the proper amount of signal getting to the tuner, without too much passing between the amps - don't overfeed.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

well I broke down and got the xtreme signal 8 bay antenna I got it from an e-bay store with free shipping. I will take your advice and aim one N and one S and see who the signal is with that I'll home run it right into the OTA dongle and see if I get a better signal and or more channels and I'll leave the omni in the attic and runt it just to all tv's they seem to do just fine with the signal split up multiple ways if it doesn't get as good a signal as the omni I'll do the vise versa and use the new one for the tv's and the omni to just the OTA dongle. I'll wait for a break in the weather before I climb up in the attic. It's super easy to just run a new cable down I have a 3" PVC run right in the middle of the house from the basement to the attic I put that in when the house was still just studs for just such and occasion  thanks for the suggestions


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

ok so I got the antenna the other day and it was actually warm out so I ventured up and ran another line right into the antenna straight into the OTA dongle. I have one pointing North and one pointing southeast because most of the transmitter antenna's are in that direction according to another web site I found that shows on a map exactly where they transmit from. my signal strength for NBC and CBS was worse then with the onmi antenna Are you kidding me??? so I ran the antenna into the in on my RCA amplifier and then out to the dongle. Nothing else in the amp but the out to the dongle. It boosted the signal up to nearly 100% for both of them. my ABC is kind of weak 87% I will see how they respond with the new antenna. all the rest of the TV's in the house are on the Omni antenna which I wound up moving in the attic to a more central location to the very peak of the roof which is about 30' off the ground. my tv's will pick up anywhere between 45-50 channels some the picture sucks but they are there. the OTA dongle will only pick up 38 solid stations. which is ok the major networks it picks up. it must need super strong signals in order to tune into them.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

My guess is you are in the Lancaster area (from the zip code) so ABC, CBS and NBC are almost directly south of you and FOX is northwest, so your antenna aim may be a little off. For your current aim to be accurate you should be further west near Lake Erie.


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## tcpuccio1 (May 13, 2012)

when I was up there I had my daughter watching the signal strength on the major channels and changing the swing on the bays of the antenna she said it only made at best a 3% change so I just stopped when it had the best signal and locked all the adjustments down there.


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