# Dish 811 experiences and problems



## tomb18ca

Hi All,
This is my first post to dbstalk and it seems to be the best place for dish network questions. I received my 811 last week, and so far it doesn't seem to have too many serious problems and seems to work pretty good. I have however found the following:
The DVI output is much darker than the component out. Changing the brightness etc is not an option since the rest of the system is properly calibrated.
The ability to teah a remote the IR commands from the menu is a nice touch except it works for everything except the */FORMAT button!!! This is the one I wanted the most!! It just doesn't work! I have heard that an IR remote for dish net receivers that has a * button will work. Does anyone know if this is true?
Other than these two things I have not seen any of the problems that other people have experienced.

Thanks for any help.


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## lesmoss

tomb18ca said:


> Hi All,
> I have heard that an IR remote for dish net receivers that has a * button will work. Does anyone know if this is true?


Yes, that worked for me.


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## mattyro

what just happened here? are we saying any remote with a * button will control format(aspect?) on dish receivers?


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## Slordak

No, I believe what we are saying is that receivers which have format controls (i.e. the 811 and 921) respond to the "*" key as a "format change key". Hence, this is the case regardless of what remote is being used; any remote that sends the infrared equivalent of a "*" key press will correctly initiate a format change.

In response to the earlier question about the picture being too dark on the DVI output. This can actually be two different things:

1) Calibration. On some HDTVs, the inputs are calibrated independently, so even if one has adjusted all of the settings to one's liking on a certain input, these adjustments may need to be re-done when using a different input (i.e. if the DVI input has never been used before, it may simply have never been adjusted to your liking via the user and service menus).

2) The 811 720p problem. Several folks have indicated that the 811 has issues with 720p not being output correctly. Please try setting your 811 to use 1080i output instead and see if this addresses the issue or not.


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## tomb18ca

Hi, Thanks for the info on the * key. I will try it tonight.

As to the dark DVI, this HDTV does not have separate settings for each input. They are all the same.(Sony kp57ws510) If I try to adjust the DVI input, then the component (which has my DVD player connected) and an Svideo in (which has the rest of the components connected) are way too light. As a matter of fact, no combination of brightness and contrast will give a good picture on the DVI output, it's as if the dynamic range is bunched up at the lower end of the blacks.
As to 720p I am only using 1080i so this is not the case.

I have heard (hearsay...) that some DVI equipment had bugs and that this is where the problem comes. But this is very sketchy.

Thanks

*****

In response to the earlier question about the picture being too dark on the DVI output. This can actually be two different things:

1) Calibration. On some HDTVs, the inputs are calibrated independently, so even if one has adjusted all of the settings to one's liking on a certain input, these adjustments may need to be re-done when using a different input (i.e. if the DVI input has never been used before, it may simply have never been adjusted to your liking via the user and service menus).

2) The 811 720p problem. Several folks have indicated that the 811 has issues with 720p not being output correctly. Please try setting your 811 to use 1080i output instead and see if this addresses the issue or not.[/QUOTE]


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## garypen

Slordak said:


> In response to the earlier question about the picture being too dark on the DVI output. This can actually be two different things:
> 
> 1) Calibration. On some HDTVs, the inputs are calibrated independently, so even if one has adjusted all of the settings to one's liking on a certain input, these adjustments may need to be re-done when using a different input (i.e. if the DVI input has never been used before, it may simply have never been adjusted to your liking via the user and service menus).
> 
> 2) The 811 720p problem. Several folks have indicated that the 811 has issues with 720p not being output correctly. Please try setting your 811 to use 1080i output instead and see if this addresses the issue or not.


The 1080i output is also "darker" than it should be. While not as dark as the composite and s-video outs, its grayscale shading is pretty bad, making all dark areas look black instead of differeng shades of gray.

This has been mentioned in a number of threads.


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## tomb18ca

Hmmm, I have absolutely no problem with the component outputs, the grey scale appears to be just as good as the component input from my DVD player and the s-video inputs to the TV from my vcr / laser disk.



garypen said:


> The 1080i output is also "darker" than it should be. While not as dark as the composite and s-video outs, its grayscale shading is pretty bad, making all dark areas look black instead of differeng shades of gray.
> 
> This has been mentioned in a number of threads.


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## snathanb

My component out from the 811 is considerably darker than say, the component out from my DVD player, but only in 1080i mode. 

I figured it was my set. When I had a Samsung OTA HD STB, I had the same darker picture on 1080i mode on it, too.


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## willy

tomb18ca said:


> Hmmm, I have absolutely no problem with the component outputs, the grey scale appears to be just as good as the component input from my DVD player and the s-video inputs to the TV from my vcr / laser disk.


Ditto. Using my out-of-the-box TV settings, using either DVI or component, looks great. 720p/1080i makes no difference either. Seems like its only on a few units. Going to the s-vid and compos. outputs is horribly dark though.

Garypen- i'd ask for a replacement if your 1080i output looks bad as opposed to 720p.


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## garypen

It certainly looks better than 720p, but for different reasons. Quite frankly, 720p from the 811 almost looks like SD. I suppose I may try a replacement 811 at some point. But, since _so many people have noticed and posted about the same loss-of-black-detail issue_, I'd have to say it's an 811 global issue, not one specific to my particular unit. The people who aren't noticing it may have their brightness levels set too high, or are simply not sensitive to these types of image problems. Or, perhaps it doesn't affect certain types of displays as much, such as LCD or DLP.

Remember, _it's not the entire image that is darker_. Light scenes, such as outdoors, look absolutely fantastic from edge to edge. However, indoor and evening scenes are black in the areas that should have varying degrees of gray and shadow.


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## tomb18ca

Please see the new thread, which will be more general and useful for people.

Tom



garypen said:


> It certainly looks better than 720p, but for different reasons. Quite frankly, 720p from the 811 almost looks like SD. I suppose I may try a replacement 811 at some point. But, since _so many people have noticed and posted about the same loss-of-black-detail issue_, I'd have to say it's an 811 global issue, not one specific to my particular unit. The people who aren't noticing it may have their brightness levels set too high, or are simply not sensitive to these types of image problems. Or, perhaps it doesn't affect certain types of displays as much, such as LCD or DLP.
> 
> Remember, _it's not the entire image that is darker_. Light scenes, such as outdoors, look absolutely fantastic from edge to edge. However, indoor and evening scenes are black in the areas that should have varying degrees of gray and shadow.


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## garypen

tomb18ca said:


> Please see the new thread, which will be more general and useful for people.
> 
> Tom


Excellent! With so many people bringing it up in different threads, it's good to have a common point of reference.

However, I don't see it in the General Dish Discussion. Where is it? Can you add a link?


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## tomb18ca

Its in the general dish network section 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=25839



garypen said:


> Excellent! With so many people bringing it up in different threads, it's good to have a common point of reference.
> 
> However, I don't see it in the General Dish Discussion. Where is it? Can you add a link?


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## garypen

No wonder I didn't see it. You didn't start it until an hour and half after you posted about it here! (More than a half hour after my inquiry!) :bonk1:


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## landcruiser00

Anyone have problems with auto-tune event timers only outputting a black screen?
The timer will power the unit up and down at the proper times, but no video image, channel, etc is displayed.
I reported this to a E*CSR last night and he had not had any other reports in his log.


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## HTguy

landcruiser00 said:


> Anyone have problems with auto-tune event timers only outputting a black screen?


This happened to me the one time I tried it around a month ago. I thought I saw a post that reported this was fixed with 265 but I haven't tried it again so I can't confirm or deny.


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## garypen

The bug wasn't fixed very fast. It was fixed half-fast.

The timers now work, but _only if you leave the 811 powered on_. If you turn it off, it will display a black screen when it turns on to record.


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## waltinvt

Seems like there was a thread on this once but darned if I can find it.

My 811, when I let the sound come through just the 5 tv speakers, has an awful hum on the HD channels. Sound is fine from my 508 through the same tv. For HD sound running through optical to my audio amp, there isn't the hum but it doesn't sound great either - no real surround effect.

This same hum is also present through my headphones (connected to the tv) when listening to HD.

Walt


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## Guest

I'm a long time Dish customer. I had my 6000 for 2.5 years and was pretty happy with it. I 'early adopted' the 811 primarily because of the updated guide. I figured, wrongly it turns out, that the PQ would be at least as good as the 6K. Why shouldn't it be? Well, this weekend I'm almost ready to throw the unit out the window. 

First, trying to watch the Final Four, it continually drops the channel map for CBS every time I switch away during a commercial. The channel recall still is buggy when going to and from locals to satellite channes. But most of all, the friggin' guide keeps having to download information. This take 20-30 seconds every time. I tried to use the 'Theme' function and it started to do repeated downloads, presumably one for each theme - each taking 20-30 seconds. I had to exit out before it was done because it was so frustrating. 

I'll give this thing another couple months, but if these problems aren't resolved by then, I'm switching to Comcast.


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## Mike123abc

Actually now my 811 is MORE reliable than my 6000. My 6000 used to be as steady as a rock, but now it seems to be buggy. I think that there is something in the guide that is starting to make it go flakey. A lot of times it has the wrong show info, and I have not been able to set a timer lately on the 6000, when it goes to load the channel list, it resets. I am looking at 4 satellites now on the 6000, I think I will go up to the attic and take off 105 since HDTV does not seem to be there yet, maybe it will stop overloading the 6000.


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## greylar

I received my 811 last week and so far don't see many problems I don't get an OTA channels so the problems associated with the OTA module don't apply to me. But, I have noticed one issue. If I leave the receiver on an HD channel for a long time the video starts to hop and jump kind of like when you try to view a video stream on a 56k modem. A channel change seems to solve the problem. I haven't noticed if this happens on SD channels or not. Anyone else notice this? It may have been mentioned in another thread but I didn't see it.

G


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## garypen

That happened to me once, or something similar. The video appeared to be skipping frames, but the audio seemed to be OK. It was kind of like that stupid effect that is used on MTV and the like, when they want to give the programming a young, hip, edgy feel to it. At first, I thought it was that, and that it was odd they would do that on a Discovery program. Then I realized it was just another 811 thing.


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## jason4957

I'm having a problem with the Channel Recall as well mainly only when using OTA channels. Also it wont let me delete some of the OTA Digital Channels. Here FOX and TBS broadcast 2 digital channels one HD and one SD. But everytime I turn off the machine the SD channels come back.


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## Guest

Has anyone had any meaningful conversation with Dish Tech on the 811 issues? Everytime I call, they pretend like I'm the only one with these problems, then they send out an installer who tells me something useless like "your box must be getting too hot." Maybe going back to cable is the only message Dish understands?


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## MattS

Regular CSR's arent trained that much on HD boxes. The Advanced TEchnical Dept. are the ones that are more expierenced.


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## jason4957

MattS said:


> Regular CSR's arent trained that much on HD boxes. The Advanced TEchnical Dept. are the ones that are more expierenced.


No Joke. The guy that brought my 811 out had no idea what a DVI cable was and hooked up part of the component cable's up to the audio. I mean seriously.


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## Guest

MattS said:


> Regular CSR's arent trained that much on HD boxes. The Advanced TEchnical Dept. are the ones that are more expierenced.


...so, if I called an Advanced Tech about my dropped OTA channels, "Acquiring Signal" guide errors, and dark picture issues I would get some results? The point is that Dish has some significant work to do if they want to be in the HD broadcast business, and they need to figure that out quickly. I don't see any evidence that they get it.


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## Cholly

DVCII said:


> ...so, if I called an Advanced Tech about my dropped OTA channels, "Acquiring Signal" guide errors, and dark picture issues I would get some results? The point is that Dish has some significant work to do if they want to be in the HD broadcast business, and they need to figure that out quickly. I don't see any evidence that they get it.


Even Advanced Tech can be a mixed bag. My first experience with talking to them was very good. I spoke to a 811 specialist and he was quite helpful in getting my 811 and TiVo to talk to one another and had several suggestions about terrestrial antennas for Local digial OTA reception. The second time I called, I asked to speak to the same person and he wasn't available. I was routed to a female 811 specialist, and when I mentioned the problems I was having with locking on OTA signals and the dreaded "49" phenomenon, she told me in no uncertain terms that she wouldn't authorize an exchange of the receiver (which I hadn't even suggested). Her attitude was one of "get rid of this pest as quickly as possible". I wish I could remember the names of both of these CSR's. Moral of my story: when calling Tech support, always have pencil and notepad handy!


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## MattS

CSR's do not have direct extensions for several reasons, (pissed off customers calling back to chew you out, they are always on the phone ect.) and the time you called in was probably the time when regular CSR's were creating exchanges for the 811 receiver right and left. I saw a guy get 3 811's in 1 week because of agent error, which couldve been fixed by more extensive troubleshooting.


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## ee1995

Cholly said:


> Even Advanced Tech can be a mixed bag. My first experience with talking to them was very good. I spoke to a 811 specialist and he was quite helpful in getting my 811 and TiVo to talk to one another and had several suggestions about terrestrial antennas for Local digial OTA reception. The second time I called, I asked to speak to the same person and he wasn't available. I was routed to a female 811 specialist, and when I mentioned the problems I was having with locking on OTA signals and the dreaded "49" phenomenon, she told me in no uncertain terms that she wouldn't authorize an exchange of the receiver (which I hadn't even suggested). Her attitude was one of "get rid of this pest as quickly as possible". I wish I could remember the names of both of these CSR's. Moral of my story: when calling Tech support, always have pencil and notepad handy!


I must have talked to that same woman. She insisted that my problems with the digital stations disapearing from the guide were due to my antenna and not the 811. Looks like that 265 firmware download fixed that problem.


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## Guest

ee1995 said:


> Looks like that 265 firmware download fixed that problem.


Still occuring for me; however seems to be less frequent.


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## Guest

Here is my problem.. No Dolby Digital using optical connection.. It works fine using optical on PCM (non-High Def Channels). To get sound on High Def channels I need to use the RCA audio cables.. But guess what, that is NOT Dolby Digital.. That is just in stereo. I see many people say "oh I get Dolby Digital sound on my 811 just fine"... Fact is they are using the RCA jacks and not optical.. That is NOT Dolby digital. But yes you will get sound and to someone that do not know much about these things.. That "works fine" for them. But not for me, I want what I pay for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trouble shooting:
-Tried different setting on the 811 (PCM only, Dolby Digital only, PCM/Dolby Digital)
-Tried different settings on the stereo receiver (PCM only, Dolby Digital only, Auto switching)
-Received a replacement for the 811 receiver
-replace my Magnavox MFX 450 with a SONY STRDE995
-replaced the optical cable..

Problem still not solved! Both of my Stereo receivers decode Dolby Digital 5.1 from DVD perfectly fine and in fact the receiver literally says "Dolby Digital" on the display.


Other than that, DVI works good
equipment:
-811 satellite receiver from Dish Network
-SONY STRDE995 Dolby Digital 7.1, Pro Logic II Stereo receiver
-Panasonic 56” widescreen HDTV projection TV


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## snathanb

1) Yes, I get DD on my 811
2) Yes, I am using optical cable
3) I am using a SONY STRK750P, set on Automode.

We are not as dumb as you think we are... most, if not all of us, understand the difference between analog (PLII) and digital (DD). You make it sound like the 811 DD doesn't work and you are the only one smart enough to realize it.

The optical cable is the *only* audio cable I have hooked to my 811. My 811 is set on PCM/DD. Dolby Digital works just fine, when it is transmitted. (Example: HDNET).

Sound like you got 2 bad receivers.


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## Cholly

Umm ... I also am getting Dolby Digital just fine on HD channels on my 811 using optical cable. Equipment:Sony KV-32HS500 32" HDTV monitor, Onkyo HTS760B home theater system. I'm using DVI cable for HD, but also using SVideo and A/V cables out of my 811 to TiVo and to another input on my Sony. That way, when I'm watching non-HD channels, I can get full screen rather than black bars on all four sides of the picture. The SD conversion works just fine.
Incidentally, for those folks interested in a little background information on the various forms of digital television (SD, ED, HD), check out the May issue of PC World magazine. There's a pretty good article on HDTV Q&A, plus links to a number of HDTV web sites.


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## Guest

Hahaha, seems I offended some people.


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## JohnMI

DavidD said:


> Hahaha, seems I offended some people.


No, seems you were wrong and were shown so.

- John...


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## garypen

Exactimundo!


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## Guest

After being a dish subscriber for more than 5 years, I've given up on dish. I've listed my 811 on ebay and will switch to direct as soon as it sells. Hopefully direct won't sell beta products.


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## JohnMI

You bothered to post as a guest just for that? heh.

- John...


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## garypen

It's _easier _ to post as a guest, isn't it?


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## JohnMI

Yes, I guess I just meant "You bothered to post that?" instead. heh. 

- John...


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## DWS44

I am fairly new to Dish...just signed up about a month ago. I have the 811 on my main HDTV, and a 322 running TVs in my bedroom and garage. I am curious of one thing. The graphics (channel header bars, program info, and guide) are very nice on the 322, yet all of these graphics on the 811 looks like a bad version of a DOS text screen. I was just curious why the difference? Being the 811 is the big HD receiver, I would have though it would also have the flashy newer looking graphics like the 322. Also, why does the Dish interactive stuff not show up on the 811, like it does on the 322?


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## HTguy

The _Open TV_ software didn't ship with the 811. It will be downloaded at some future time - perhaps in a month or so. If you have your 811 set to take downloads automatically ("without permission," the default setting), and you routinely turn it "off" (standby) when not watching it, one day you will turn it "on" and see the new graphics and _DISH Home_ on Ch 100.


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## DWS44

HTguy said:


> The _Open TV_ software didn't ship with the 811. It will be downloaded at some future time - perhaps in a month or so. If you have your 811 set to take downloads automatically ("without permission," the default setting), and you routinely turn it "off" (standby) when not watching it, one day you will turn it "on" and see the new graphics and _DISH Home_ on Ch 100.


Cool...that will be nice. Thanks!

I'm slowly figuring out how this satellite stuff works!


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## Nick

When you get it figured out, let the rest of us know.

_"It's not your father's tv anymore - it's a lot more complicated."_


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## Cholly

I'm struggling with getting reception of digital OTA locals. Problem is, there is a huge evergreen across the street from my house that blocks "view" of transmitting antennas, which are only five miles away. Locals are all operating at low power (mostly 200 watts or less), and are on channels 4, 7, 8 and 42. I'm able to get good locks on 7 (CBS) & 42 (PBS) with an RCA indoor antenna and so-so results on 8 (Fox & UPN). Channel 4 (ABC) just won't come in. I've tried 6 different indoor antennas, plus a Terk TV-55 and a Channel Master Stealth (the last 2 tried indoors only -- I have a mounting problem re: outdoors, and attic mounting is an access problem).
I've read a number of posts about people having good results with the Zenith Silver Sensor, but it appears to me that it's just a UHF antenna. Can someone enlighten me?


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## garypen

The SS is a UHF antenna. However, I pick up 12 with it OK. (PSIP 11). Terk has a new indoor antenna based on the SS design, except it is also VHF. I know, Terk generally sucks. But, a few members have posted good results with it.

Are you sure that your channels 4,7, and 8 are really broadcast on those channels for their digital broadcasts? Those sound like analog channel numbers. OTA stations broadcast digitally on different channels than their analog counterparts, usually UHF. The channels are remapped using PSIP information to match their analog channels.

For instance, my local ABC, KGO, broadcasts analog on ch. 7, but digitally on 24. However, their digital PSIP channel is 7.1.

You can get a list of digital stations in your area, with both the actual and PSIP channels listed. Go to www.antennaweb.org


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## Guest

At 200 watts, I wouldn't count on any reception. That is limbo low power.


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## Cholly

garypen said:


> Terk has a new indoor antenna based on the SS design, except it is also VHF. I know, Terk generally sucks. But, a few members have posted good results with it.
> 
> Are you sure that your channels 4,7, and 8 are really broadcast on those channels for their digital broadcasts? Those sound like analog channel numbers. OTA stations broadcast digitally on different channels than their analog counterparts, usually UHF. The channels are remapped using PSIP information to match their analog channels.
> 
> QUOTE]
> I know that Best Buy has the new Terk, but don't have a Best Buy within 60 miles. Circuit City, locally, sells only the TV55, which did nothing for me. As to the channel numbers, yes, those are the actual digital channels. ABC is 34.1, broadcast on 4, CBS is 12.1, broadcasting on 7, Fox and UPN are 40.1 and 40.2, broadcasting on 8 and PBS is 46.1, broadcasting on 42.
> Our local analog stations are all UHF, except for the CBS outlet. The real issue is with the ABC channel, since chan. 4 is low band VHF. With an indoor antenna, you have to have the radiators extended fully and horizontal. That's incompatible with high band VHF
> The former chief engineer of one of the locals did a terrain scan for me, and according to it, I should have no problems. There are no hills in the way, just the darned evergreen across the street from my first floor TV room. It would be nice to have a terrestrial antenna co-mounted with my dish (which I've tried), but the dish is on the west side of my house, about 6 feet below the roofline and the TV stations are all to the southeast. Even if the terrestrial antenna had good reception to the side (ha!), it is still blocked by the house.


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## DWS44

Cholly said:


> I'm able to get good locks on 7 (CBS) & 42 (PBS) with an RCA indoor antenna and so-so results on 8 (Fox & UPN). Channel 4 (ABC) just won't come in. I've tried 6 different indoor antennas, plus a Terk TV-55 and a Channel Master Stealth (the last 2 tried indoors only -- I have a mounting problem re: outdoors, and attic mounting is an access problem).
> I've read a number of posts about people having good results with the Zenith Silver Sensor, but it appears to me that it's just a UHF antenna. Can someone enlighten me?


Well...I tried a couple different RCA indoor antennas and got terrible reception...only a couple channels and very weak signals on those. Then I tried the Silver Sensor and was shocked at the difference...with it I have every local digital channel available out of Charlotte...and very strong signals on all of them. I couldnt believe the difference it made!


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## garypen

Cholly - You are definitely unique in that your networks all transmit on VHF. Plus, 200W is way weak. You may be SOL. 

You may want to give it a couple more tries. Maybe do some web searching for indoor antenna reviews. I've heard the Winegard "Square Shooter" is good, but pricey, around the same cost as the TV55.


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## Cholly

garypen said:


> Cholly - You are definitely unique in that your networks all transmit on VHF. Plus, 200W is way weak. You may be SOL. .


It's a rather unique situation to be sure. This area is DMA #154, and as is typical in smaller markets, there was only one VHF broadcast channel allocated back in the fifties. All the others were UHF. Hence the switch when it comes to digital allocations. It's a bit amusing, because once these folks get off their butts and start broadcasting at full power, we should get good reception. The local broadcast stations all have their towers atop an 1800 foot hill. I'm at an altitude of 1100 ft.


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## glenns1939

:nono2:  Hi- I have an OTA problem with my 811. I have a Channelmaster 4228 antenna with preamp and rotor. I live in rural MA about 60 miles from Boston and the same from Hartford CT. My 811 will pull in channels from both cities with signal strenghs in the 60's to 80's and hold them for sometimes as long as a couple of days. Then all of a sudden, and we are not talking weather related, the signals all go to the 49 level, and I get no lock whatsoever. Have tried the hold the power button and reset-disconnect the receiver from power and then reconnect, usually with no results. Tried the DTV scan all over again and all this accomplishes is instead of 10-11 channels mapping I get 2, or even none. of course I get a 49 signal reading. Is this a problem anyone else has? I've called Dish and most blame it on the antenna. Yet how can a rock solid signal disappear for no known reason, and be replaced by what has been called the dreaded 49 phenomena. It is driving me NUTS-are there any threads anyone knows of that deal with ota 49 issues? I would bet my fortune-all $3 of it-that it is not my antenna. HELP!!!!!!!!!


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## garypen

glenns1939 said:


> I would bet my fortune-all $3 of it-that it is not my antenna. HELP!!!!!!!!!


That would be a safe bet.


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## WHNB

glenns1939 said:


> :nono2:  Hi- I have an OTA problem with my 811. I have a Channelmaster 4228 antenna with preamp and rotor. I live in rural MA about 60 miles from Boston and the same from Hartford CT. My 811 will pull in channels from both cities with signal strenghs in the 60's to 80's and hold them for sometimes as long as a couple of days. Then all of a sudden, and we are not talking weather related, the signals all go to the 49 level, and I get no lock whatsoever. ...Is this a problem anyone else has? I've called Dish and most blame it on the antenna. Yet how can a rock solid signal disappear for no known reason, and be replaced by what has been called the dreaded 49 phenomena. It is driving me NUTS-are there any threads anyone knows of that deal with ota 49 issues? I would bet my fortune-all $3 of it-that it is not my antenna. HELP!!!!!!!!!


I'm experiencing the same problem with reception of Connecticut's NBC affiliate, WVIT-DT, and the Public Broadcasting System channel in Springfield, MA, WGBY-DT. Both stations briefly jump up to 91% and 77%, respectively, but then often revert to 49%.

If I wait long enough, Channel 30-01 may come on the screen after jumping back and forth between 49% and higher signal strengths. For some unknown reason, the 811 apparently needs extra time to decode this channel compared to the other local stations. Sometimes the channel won't come in at all even after waiting a couple minutes. Ironically, WVIT-DT's signal strength at my location in northcentral Connecticut peaks at 91%, the highest of any local station.

WGBY-DT came in with no problems until early this year. Now it usually registers at 49% and then the "Off-air digital signal lost" advisory box appears. The 811 is confused by the fact that this PBS affiliate multi-casts on four subchannels during the day (57-01, -02, -03, & -04) and switches to high definition on two channels (58-01 & 58-02) in the evenings.

The station's chief engineer e-mailed me on March 5th that they were operating their digital transmitter at half power while a power supply part was sent out for repairs. He hoped to have the station back to full power by the middle of last March. If WGBY-DT's power issue has been resolved, my 811 still is having trouble locking onto the channel. Last year this PBS channel came in with pristine reception with my now retired model 6000 receiver.


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## glenns1939

WHNB said:


> I'm experiencing the same problem with reception of Connecticut's NBC affiliate, WVIT-DT, and the Public Broadcasting System channel in Springfield, MA, WGBY-DT. Both stations briefly jump up to 91% and 77%, respectively, but then often revert to 49%.
> 
> If I wait long enough, Channel 30-01 may come on the screen after jumping back and forth between 49% and higher signal strengths. For some unknown reason, the 811 apparently needs extra time to decode this channel compared to the other local stations. Sometimes the channel won't come in at all even after waiting a couple minutes. Ironically, WVIT-DT's signal strength at my location in northcentral Connecticut peaks at 91%, the highest of any local station.
> 
> WGBY-DT came in with no problems until early this year. Now it usually registers at 49% and then the "Off-air digital signal lost" advisory box appears. The 811 is confused by the fact that this PBS affiliate multi-casts on four subchannels during the day (57-01, -02, -03, & -04) and switches to high definition on two channels (58-01 & 58-02) in the evenings.
> 
> The station's chief engineer e-mailed me on March 5th that they were operating their digital transmitter at half power while a power supply part was sent out for repairs. He hoped to have the station back to full power by the middle of last March. If WGBY-DT's power issue has been resolved, my 811 still is having trouble locking onto the channel. Last year this PBS channel came in with pristine reception with my now retired model 6000 receiver.


 Let's hope Dish will address this in an upcoming software fix, as it can be very annoying when you are in the middle of a program and the signal just decides to disappear-and this isn't multipath :nono2:


----------



## olgeezer

Have you checked antennaweb.org to see if the problem may be related to multipathing? A move of an antenna just 1 or 2 degrees may correct the problem.


----------



## Guest

I can assure you the 49% bug is the 811 only. I have two other brands OTA receivers that both are solid 90% on the two channels that constantly give me the 49% jumps on 811.

It is the 811 and 811 only, don't blame it on anything else.


----------



## BFG

Yup, the 49% is a bug that deffinetly needs fixed. When you go into then menu the station locks fine but when you try to tune it pulls the 49-0% crap. If you keep hitting the info and view tv buttons it will eventually lock in, or u can leave the channel on in the menu and it will eventually goto the station.

Other things that dish screwed up in 265 that did not happen before is the aquring satellite screen that comes up every time you turn on the receiver and the many times that the info never gets downloaded to the reciever!


----------



## Baywoof

After waiting since Feb. 1, I just had the had the Dish 811 receiver installed, along with upgrading to the HDTV Dish package. Since I had an an existing Dish 300 system and 1 receiver (JVC 5000), I needed to upgrade to the Dish 500 satellite dish. My plan was to install the 811 in my family room to broadcast on my Sony GWII 60 in. RPLCD and install the old 5000 to my daughter's bedroom. I have been a Dish customer for over 6 years and the exisiting system has worked fine for all that time.

The installers (2 - one was a trainee) said they were Dish employees, not subcontractors (I live near Houston) and came out at the specified intallation schedule. They were very courteous and the primary installer seemed to be knowledgeable and claimed to have installed several 811's prior to my installation.

After replacing my Dish 300 sat. antenna with the Dish 500 (they used the existing sat. mount on my chimney), they wired the the system with 2-SW21 swtches for the two receiver setup. After installing the cable and tweaking the satellite signal for 119 and 110 locations using the old 5000 receiver it was noticed the old 5000 receiver was acting very "buggy" not being able to lock in on both satellites and essentailly shutting down. The installer recommended to replace the old 5000 (the one now to be used in the bedroom) with another receiver and suggested I call Dish and request a new one. The installer had a 301 receiver in his truck and after calling Dish, they agreed to let me have it for free since I was a long-time customer (Thanks Dish!). 

After setting up and testing both receivers the installers left. The 301 in the bedroom is working fine-I just needed a basic working receiver in there but below are my comments on the 811 receiver after 2 days experience. The system software shows it to be the 265 version LADD-N.

1. I used to watch HDTV OTA with a Samsung 151 tuner, using component cables. On the 811, component output quality (brightness) is about the same as the Samsung. However when I switched to using DVI cable from the 811 to the Sony, the image was definitely darker, although the clarity was excellent. This appears to be the same experience others have been reporting. For now I'm still using component.

2. SD images on the non-HDTV channels using the 811 look much better than the SD channels using the 5000. I also like the fomat feature on the new remote (* button) to chage aspects.

3. OTA digital channels - This is my greatest disappointment and concern. Using the Samsung tuner, I had virtually had no problems receiving all digital locals. I live 18-19 miles from the Houston area transmission towers. I get the now infamous 49% signal strength error on 3 channels, even though when you try to add those channels individually in the local OTA setup menu their strength shows up greater than 85% (I use a big antenna in the attic with amplification). 

4. In the locals channels setup menu, even though when I try to remove a digital channel from the menu (those digitals not being able to lock-in), they still show up when you change from channel to channel.

5. I had to reset my system twice in the last two days. I would lose all channels and only after a soft reset would they return. This would happen when viewing digital locals and switching to the guide and back (not all the time, but twice already).

Overall, I'm still glad I got the updrade and HD is great. Dish service was very satisfactory, especially giving me a new 2nd receiver. 

The 811 problems concern me though and if Dish cannot figure a fix for this, I'm not sure what my options will be. I still have the Samsung HD tuner, but the 811 should work as advertised. I hope all the talk on future software upgrades fix this. If its in the hardware, that will be a real pain to get resolved.

Included are a couple pictures of the outside installation. Thanks for allowing me to rant!


----------



## Mike Richardson

DWS44 said:


> I am curious of one thing. The graphics (channel header bars, program info, and guide) are very nice on the 322, yet all of these graphics on the 811 looks like a bad version of a DOS text screen. I was just curious why the difference? Being the 811 is the big HD receiver, I would have though it would also have the flashy newer looking graphics like the 322.


The 811 is older and uses an older interface. I wouldn't say it looks like DOS, but the 322 does look slicker.


----------



## tonyp56

DavidD said:


> I see many people say "oh I get Dolby Digital sound on my 811 just fine"... Fact is they are using the RCA jacks and not optical..
> 
> I have no RCA cables running from my 811 reciever, I have only Optical connection, and I get DD. One thing I found out I had to set my SAT input to optical on my DD system.


----------



## snathanb

Baywoof said:


> 3. OTA digital channels - This is my greatest disappointment and concern. Using the Samsung tuner, I had virtually had no problems receiving all digital locals. I live 18-19 miles from the Houston area transmission towers. I get the now infamous 49% signal strength error on 3 channels, even though when you try to add those channels individually in the local OTA setup menu their strength shows up greater than 85% (I use a big antenna in the attic with amplification).


Baywoof,

Just for grins... you may want to try removing the amplifier. From the many reports I've read about the 49% error, it seems to be more an issue with multipath than actual signal strength. If that is the case in your particular setup, the amplifier could be making it worse.

I live in Dallas, so the terrain is similar to the Houston area (grew up there, by the way.. in Lake Jackson). I am 45 miles away from our transmission towers. I have a large antenna in my attic and use no amplification at all. I get all our Digital stations (Currently, I'm picking up 18 of them). Most fall in the 80%-90% signal strength, and none exhibit the 49% error.


----------



## Baywoof

snathanb said:


> Baywoof,
> 
> Just for grins... you may want to try removing the amplifier. From the many reports I've read about the 49% error, it seems to be more an issue with multipath than actual signal strength. If that is the case in your particular setup, the amplifier could be making it worse.
> 
> I live in Dallas, so the terrain is similar to the Houston area (grew up there, by the way.. in Lake Jackson). I am 45 miles away from our transmission towers. I have a large antenna in my attic and use no amplification at all. I get all our Digital stations (Currently, I'm picking up 18 of them). Most fall in the 80%-90% signal strength, and none exhibit the 49% error.


Snathanb: Thanks for the suggestion about removing the amplified signal. I had already tried that without any benefit. Also, I needed to amplify the signal with my older OTA tuner. However, after double checking the direction of my attic antenna to the main transmission towers, I noticed that it was about 13 deg. off from straight on. After moving it to point exactly to the tranmission towers of the stations in question, I was able to pick-up 2 digital stations consistently and the other one with less of a propensity to not lock-in. It seems that that the 811 tuner is not as forgiving as the Samsung tuner, and antenna configuation is much more critical. I feel a bit better about the receiver, except for the other issues I listed in my recent post. Hopefully those can be addressed with future software fixes.


----------



## ssvalina

I signed up for a 6000 upgrade in Feb. and made an appointment a few weeks ago for this AM. Received a call at 8:20 this AM from someone in India stating that no 811's are available. I finally talked to an American who could not promise me a firm set-up date. I caceled the order. I guess I will consider Voom or Comcast.
Steve


----------



## ee1995

Baywoof said:


> Snathanb: Thanks for the suggestion about removing the amplified signal. I had already tried that without any benefit. Also, I needed to amplify the signal with my older OTA tuner. However, after double checking the direction of my attic antenna to the main transmission towers, I noticed that it was about 13 deg. off from straight on. After moving it to point exactly to the tranmission towers of the stations in question, I was able to pick-up 2 digital stations consistently and the other one with less of a propensity to not lock-in. It seems that that the 811 tuner is not as forgiving as the Samsung tuner, and antenna configuation is much more critical. I feel a bit better about the receiver, except for the other issues I listed in my recent post. Hopefully those can be addressed with future software fixes.


Same here. I got much better results on my local CBS after moving the attic antenna by about 10 degrees. The 811 is getting better but it still has problems with the guide at times. It went nuts last night and strated displaying non-readable chacters in the guide, it then finally refused to change channel. It eventually lost then re-aquired sat lock. After that it was OK.


----------



## jerryez

Has anyone heard the latest promise on the next software upgrade on the 811.


----------



## khearrean

tonyp56 said:


> DavidD said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see many people say "oh I get Dolby Digital sound on my 811 just fine"... Fact is they are using the RCA jacks and not optical..
> 
> I have no RCA cables running from my 811 reciever, I have only Optical connection, and I get DD. One thing I found out I had to set my SAT input to optical on my DD system.
> 
> 
> 
> You say you had to set your SAT input to Optical....Are you referring to your receiver/processor? I too am running an Optical cable from the SAT receiver to my Yamaha receiver, but I never went in and changed anything in my electronics.
> 
> Ken
Click to expand...


----------



## tonyp56

What I am referring to is my surround sound receiver, Its a RCA RT2600 (Pro logic 1 & 2, DTS, and Dolby Digital 5.1) , I have a DVD, SAT, TV, VCR, AUX, STEREO(built in), CD, TAPE inputs, for each input (DVD, TV, SAT, CD, only) I have to select analog (RCA type cables), or Digital, Opti1, Opti2, Coax1, on my surround sound system. It does not automatically switch to optical if I hook up lets say my Satellite receiver using an optical connection. And what I was trying to point out is David D. may need to select optical in his surround Sound System, and may have to select the specific input he is hooking his system too. For instance I have my DVD connected to Opti1 on my surround sound system, and my DP811 is connected to Opti2, and I had to go through the setup on my Surround System to tell it the Satellite receiver sound is going to Opti2. 
Sorry if I made it more confusing than it is, its just hard to put all of that into one or two sentences.

Thanks 
Tony


----------



## HTguy

khearrean said:


> You say you had to set your SAT input to Optical....Are you referring to your receiver/processor? I too am running an Optical cable from the SAT receiver to my Yamaha receiver, but I never went in and changed anything in my electronics.
> 
> Ken


If you've never been into the set-up menu of your Yamaha SS receiver you have a lot to do.

In addition to assigning digital inputs to the sources you need to do the speaker configuration for proper bass management, distance to speakers for proper time delay, channel balance for proper surround sound, etc., etc.

Have fun.

And if you ever decide to read your owners' manual you might discover some additional customization tips that will make your system more enjoyable.


----------



## Bobby94928

HTguy said:


> If you've never been into the set-up menu of your Yamaha SS receiver you have a lot to do.
> 
> In addition to assigning digital inputs to the sources you need to do the speaker configuration for proper bass management, distance to speakers for proper time delay, channel balance for proper surround sound, etc., etc.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> And if you ever decide to read your owners' manual you might discover some additional customization tips that will make your system more enjoyable.


What!!! You mean it's not plug 'n' play?  I spent about 2 hours setting up my Denon 4802, and it rocks!


----------



## jerryez

Yeah, it's plug and play, if you do not care whether it sounds its' best. I have tweaked my Yamaha RX620 several times, including using Avia.


----------



## buckyp

Now my Program Guide is all messed up. Not only do I only get 1 hours of info. It shows the wrong info on the channels.

i.e. Comedy central did not have MLB League pass last night. Nor did about 6 other channels. 9500 the weather channel had the guide info for PAEC channel.

Anyone else having problems?


----------



## Bobby94928

buckyp said:


> Now my Program Guide is all messed up. Not only do I only get 1 hours of info. It shows the wrong info on the channels.
> 
> i.e. Comedy central did not have MLB League pass last night. Nor did about 6 other channels. 9500 the weather channel had the guide info for PAEC channel.
> 
> Anyone else having problems?


Just hold in your power button for 5 seconds and the reset will fix it.


----------



## Guest

Bobby94928 said:


> Just hold in your power button for 5 seconds and the reset will fix it.


...for a one time shot at the guide. Then you'll likely be back at square one with no functional guide.


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## Bobby94928

gpflepsen said:


> ...for a one time shot at the guide. Then you'll likely be back at square one with no functional guide.


Maybe so, Gerry, but it seems to work for a majority of folks on two different websites. I have only had that problem once myself and the reset worked well. I haven't had the same problem in months.


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## Guest

So, your 811 giude works out to 5-6 days without getting the "Downloading Program Info" all the time? Interesting. Why would mine be doing that? It used to work fine, now it doesn't.


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## Cholly

gpflepsen said:


> So, your 811 giude works out to 5-6 days without getting the "Downloading Program Info" all the time? Interesting. Why would mine be doing that? It used to work fine, now it doesn't.


Five days? Really? I wish my 811 would do that :lol: 
Seriously, I was getting only about an hour on my guide recently. Decided to do the reboot with the STB power button and the guide came back with the normal 2 days. It's been ok for a few days now. I don't hold any hopes that it'll last for more than a week without needing another reboot :roundandr


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## Guest

I'll be damned  I did a reboot at my last post and I still have two days left in the guide.

What's the 811 supposed to have for guide length?


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## buckyp

Holding down the power button only froze the screen. I had to unplug and replug. I guess I need to keep my plug more accessable. The guide seems to be fine for now.

Now if I could get it to keep from downloading program info everyday and get the locals off 49% i'd be happy. (oh yeah, and get a better SD picture)

and more HD Channels.

etc...


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## Guest

Today the guide is back to the same old useless self. Having to reboot every few hours does not a functional feature make.


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## Bobby94928

gpflepsen said:


> I'll be damned  I did a reboot at my last post and I still have two days left in the guide.
> 
> What's the 811 supposed to have for guide length?


The 811 guide is supposed to have 48 hours. It's closer to 46. Of course you have to remember that as the day goes on, you move down in time. That's why you get the downloading program information all the time. It takes less than a minute, at least for me, so I have no problem with that. I don't actually use the guide that often to look far ahead, so maybe that's why I have little trouble with it.


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## Guest

A case for a functional guide: I left town last Thursday and wanted to record "The Boys of H Company" on Discovery HD Friday evening. No can do as the guide won't keep its promise to remember anything. That's why I want it. My 510's guide works like a charm and this is the minimum standard to which the 811 should aspire. If it could aspire.


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## garypen

Sometimes, I wish it would just _expire_.


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## Cholly

gpflepsen said:


> A case for a functional guide: I left town last Thursday and wanted to record "The Boys of H Company" on Discovery HD Friday evening. No can do as the guide won't keep its promise to remember anything. That's why I want it. My 510's guide works like a charm and this is the minimum standard to which the 811 should aspire. If it could aspire.


I've had TiVo for several years. Since I switched from cable to Dish, I was concerned about being able to use it, particularly with the 2 day limitation on the guide on the 811. Turns out it wasn't a problem, because TiVo's guide information goes out quite a way. I can set up to record programs well in advance. Downside, of course, is that I can't be viewing another program while recording. (I use S-Video out from the 811 to the TiVo, and IR blasters from TiVo control channel changing on the 811) Since the TiVo guide is downloaded to the TiVo hard drive from phone line (or in my case, cable modem), it can handle pretty much data. The same technique is used on Dish's PVR's. Limited memory in the 811 precludes having sizeable guide.
But you all knew that


----------



## DHall

gpflepsen said:


> A case for a functional guide: I left town last Thursday and wanted to record "The Boys of H Company" on Discovery HD Friday evening. No can do as the guide won't keep its promise to remember anything. That's why I want it. My 510's guide works like a charm and this is the minimum standard to which the 811 should aspire. If it could aspire.


The 510 has a hard drive to store the guide on. The 811 doesn't. All the DVR's guides go out at least a week. I've never had a non DVR receiver with a guide past 2 days.


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## Guest

The guide should work to it's design limit, not the 60-90 minutes. That is what I'm talking about.


----------



## HTguy

buckyp said:


> Holding down the power button only froze the screen. I had to unplug and replug. I guess I need to keep my plug more accessable. The guide seems to be fine for now.


If you have the 811 on when you do a front panel power button reboot it is normal for the video to freeze for several seconds. But if you are patient, you will see the screen go blank as it resets. After a short time you will probably see the "Aquiring Satellite" screen, then the EPG Info download. You should be good to go after that.


----------



## garypen

DHall said:


> The 510 has a hard drive to store the guide on. The 811 doesn't. All the DVR's guides go out at least a week. I've never had a non DVR receiver with a guide past 2 days.


I wonder how DirecTV gets their most basic Hughes HAH and HBH _non-DVR_ receivers to have 7 and 14 day guides? Must be some sort of voodoo magic.


----------



## aandrew

gpflepsen said:


> A case for a functional guide: I left town last Thursday and wanted to record "The Boys of H Company" on Discovery HD Friday evening..


Don't worry my friend, TBoHC will be rebroadcast AT LEAST 15 more times this month...


----------



## Cholly

garypen said:


> I wonder how DirecTV gets their most basic Hughes HAH and HBH _non-DVR_ receivers to have 7 and 14 day guides? Must be some sort of voodoo magic.


As I understand it, the DirecTV guide infor is sent to the receiver in real time, and is not stored in memory as is done with the Dish receivers.


----------



## garypen

That doesn't sound plausible. That's a lot of info. You see how long it takes the 811 just to download 2 days worth.


----------



## tonyp56

My experience with DirecTV receivers, two Panasonics that are about two years old, and my original RCA that’s well from 1997. The Panasonics are Multi satellite receivers, they only had three days in the guide, the first thing I noticed when I switched to Dish was the constant stopping to download information to the guide, though those Panasonics downloaded the data every once in a while, they did not interrupt you as often as the 301's and 811 do even now with updated software. I could be wrong, but I believe with DirecTV receivers, they download the information all the time, instead of when you try to access the guide, whether or not they store that information on the receiver’s memory or not I don't know. I know with those Panasonic receivers every time the electricity went out, I had to mess with them, (unplug, plug back in, unplug, turn off, on, etc…) because some of the channels were gone (like HBO) so it may be DirecTV uses more volatile memory, more of a on the go type, instead of downloading, then waiting until the last minute to update they constantly update information.


----------



## Ron Barry

Cholly said:


> As I understand it, the DirecTV guide infor is sent to the receiver in real time, and is not stored in memory as is done with the Dish receivers.


I would really be surpised if this is the case since Sat systems do not provide two way communication. My guess is that in both cases this info is passed down in an independent stream and stored in memory. I think that Dish just is not doing a good job figuring out the use cases of how assure minimal download activity while the receiver is being used.

One of the goals of usability design is if you don't need to get in the users way don't. The guide info should be something that should be down in the background with the lion share done while the receiver is turned off. There is clearly more work needed here.

As for the difference between directTV and Dish, It is possible they implement this part of the system differently which makes it easier for DirectTV to minimize user annoyance. Kudos if DirecTV did this. It is not always the receivers fault. This one could be in how they implemented guide information distribution.


----------



## Van

Mike123abc said:


> Actually now my 811 is MORE reliable than my 6000. My 6000 used to be as steady as a rock, but now it seems to be buggy. I think that there is something in the guide that is starting to make it go flakey. A lot of times it has the wrong show info, and I have not been able to set a timer lately on the 6000, when it goes to load the channel list, it resets. I am looking at 4 satellites now on the 6000, I think I will go up to the attic and take off 105 since HDTV does not seem to be there yet, maybe it will stop overloading the 6000.


There isnt any software/hardware configuration for the support of 4 sats, your loosing transponders and confusing the reciever and will most likely notice the same issue soon on your other recievers.


----------



## Van

Baywoof said:


> After waiting since Feb. 1, I just had the had the Dish 811 receiver installed, along with upgrading to the HDTV Dish package. Since I had an an existing Dish 300 system and 1 receiver (JVC 5000), I needed to upgrade to the Dish 500 satellite dish. My plan was to install the 811 in my family room to broadcast on my Sony GWII 60 in. RPLCD and install the old 5000 to my daughter's bedroom. I have been a Dish customer for over 6 years and the exisiting system has worked fine for all that time.
> 
> The installers (2 - one was a trainee) said they were Dish employees, not subcontractors (I live near Houston) and came out at the specified intallation schedule. They were very courteous and the primary installer seemed to be knowledgeable and claimed to have installed several 811's prior to my installation.
> 
> After replacing my Dish 300 sat. antenna with the Dish 500 (they used the existing sat. mount on my chimney), they wired the the system with 2-SW21 swtches for the two receiver setup. After installing the cable and tweaking the satellite signal for 119 and 110 locations using the old 5000 receiver it was noticed the old 5000 receiver was acting very "buggy" not being able to lock in on both satellites and essentailly shutting down. The installer recommended to replace the old 5000 (the one now to be used in the bedroom) with another receiver and suggested I call Dish and request a new one. The installer had a 301 receiver in his truck and after calling Dish, they agreed to let me have it for free since I was a long-time customer (Thanks Dish!).
> 
> After setting up and testing both receivers the installers left. The 301 in the bedroom is working fine-I just needed a basic working receiver in there but below are my comments on the 811 receiver after 2 days experience. The system software shows it to be the 265 version LADD-N.
> 
> 1. I used to watch HDTV OTA with a Samsung 151 tuner, using component cables. On the 811, component output quality (brightness) is about the same as the Samsung. However when I switched to using DVI cable from the 811 to the Sony, the image was definitely darker, although the clarity was excellent. This appears to be the same experience others have been reporting. For now I'm still using component.
> 
> 2. SD images on the non-HDTV channels using the 811 look much better than the SD channels using the 5000. I also like the fomat feature on the new remote (* button) to chage aspects.
> 
> 3. OTA digital channels - This is my greatest disappointment and concern. Using the Samsung tuner, I had virtually had no problems receiving all digital locals. I live 18-19 miles from the Houston area transmission towers. I get the now infamous 49% signal strength error on 3 channels, even though when you try to add those channels individually in the local OTA setup menu their strength shows up greater than 85% (I use a big antenna in the attic with amplification).
> 
> 4. In the locals channels setup menu, even though when I try to remove a digital channel from the menu (those digitals not being able to lock-in), they still show up when you change from channel to channel.
> 
> 5. I had to reset my system twice in the last two days. I would lose all channels and only after a soft reset would they return. This would happen when viewing digital locals and switching to the guide and back (not all the time, but twice already).
> 
> Overall, I'm still glad I got the updrade and HD is great. Dish service was very satisfactory, especially giving me a new 2nd receiver.
> 
> The 811 problems concern me though and if Dish cannot figure a fix for this, I'm not sure what my options will be. I still have the Samsung HD tuner, but the 811 should work as advertised. I hope all the talk on future software upgrades fix this. If its in the hardware, that will be a real pain to get resolved.
> 
> Included are a couple pictures of the outside installation. Thanks for allowing me to rant!


Being a dish employee Im discouraged that we havent been told of the %49 demon, I will be sure to bring this up along with the issue of the dark dvi at our weekly meeting.

Looking at the pictures of the install I would give the installer a C grade, the ground block should have been placed on the wall and not under the eave as well as should the switches, the grounding connection at the dish wont pass inspection either but may have been the only way they could do it so atleast your system is grounded. Basicly from what youve shown it would pass most likely through a non Dish inspection but might teeter on failing through a Dish QC check.


----------



## CyberTiVo

Cholly - You mentioned you have your TiVo controlling your 811. What did you choose in the guided setup? I called Dish and they had no clue. How did you get it to work?


----------



## CyberTiVo

Did regard the last message, I found your answer in another thread.


----------



## Soccernut

Van said:


> Being a dish employee Im discouraged that we havent been told of the %49 demon, I will be sure to bring this up along with the issue of the dark dvi at our weekly meeting.
> 
> Looking at the pictures of the install I would give the installer a C grade, the ground block should have been placed on the wall and not under the eave as well as should the switches, the grounding connection at the dish wont pass inspection either but may have been the only way they could do it so atleast your system is grounded. Basicly from what youve shown it would pass most likely through a non Dish inspection but might teeter on failing through a Dish QC check.


On mine 811 dark picture on SD all inputs, no DVI using component for HD black looks crushed on HD.


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## mini1

please vote in my poll on this board about the 811. thanks!


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## Baywoof

Van said:


> Being a dish employee Im discouraged that we havent been told of the %49 demon, I will be sure to bring this up along with the issue of the dark dvi at our weekly meeting.
> 
> Looking at the pictures of the install I would give the installer a C grade, the ground block should have been placed on the wall and not under the eave as well as should the switches, the grounding connection at the dish wont pass inspection either but may have been the only way they could do it so atleast your system is grounded. Basicly from what youve shown it would pass most likely through a non Dish inspection but might teeter on failing through a Dish QC check.


What's really discouraging is that (1) Dish employees not knowing about the bugs in their receivers and (2) a Dish employee rates an installation as "C" grade from a Dish installer (not a subcontractor).


----------



## Cholly

garypen said:


> That doesn't sound plausible. That's a lot of info. You see how long it takes the 811 just to download 2 days worth.


My comment about the D* guide was based on a post I'd seen in another thread. I confess I have no direct  knowledge of this. I was away this past weekend and when I went to Guide, it was empty and had to be refreshed. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.


----------



## jerryez

In the tech chat, Dish said the there is not a 49% bug. All OTA problems should be addressed with a new antenna. The 811 has no OTA bug. The receiver just ain't worth a sh*t for receiving OTA channels.


----------



## HTguy

jerryez said:


> In the tech chat, Dish said the there is not a 49% bug. All OTA problems should be addressed with a new antenna. The 811 has no OTA bug. The receiver just ain't worth a sh*t for receiving OTA channels.


 :flaiming

What the hell are you talking about? The term "49% bug" never came up in the chat at all. Nobody asked about a "49% bug" and nobody mentioned such a thing in an answer or statement.

Somebody _did_ ask about a method for "boosting signal strength" in the 811 (obviously someone who doesn't understand OTA reception) and the answer was in the form of suggestions for improving the antenna based upon the caller's reception condition.

Maybe you need to lay off the bong water for a while.


----------



## garypen

In the context of the question, they should have mentioned how signal strength is not always an issue, and that they are working on optimizing the 811 for the many variables associated with OTA reception.

After all, there is obviously a problem with the 811's OTA. Either they know about it, and avoided bringing it up for business reasons, or don't know about it, which would be discouraging to say the least.


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## HTguy

garypen said:


> ...there is obviously a problem with the 811's OTA...


No. Some people may be having OTA problems for any number of reasons and a few people evidently are seeing the "49%" error relating to their particular OTA reception situation and/or their particular 811.

It does not follow that therefore "there is obviously a problem with the 811's OTA."

I have absolutely no OTA problem. Only one 811 customer has reported any OTA reception issues and that had nothing to do with any "49% bug."

If anybody is sure that their OTA antenna set-up is optimum and nevertheless has a particular problem ("49% bug" or whatever) the sensible thing to do would be to exchange that specific 811 receiver.


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## Mike123abc

I was able to resolve my 49% problem by adjusting my antenna. I suspect that it was a ghosting issue. Although my 6000 did not suffer from the same problems, perhaps the 811 is more sensitive and it picked up the ghost more than the 6000 did. The stations all show stronger %s on my 811 than my 6000.


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## Guest

HTguy said:


> If anybody is sure that their OTA antenna set-up is optimum and nevertheless has a particular problem ("49% bug" or whatever) the sensible thing to do would be to exchange that specific 811 receiver.


NO. When I first installed my 811 in early December '03 the OTA worked fine. After the first software update, many reported having the 49% problem. It wasn't there before, but it was there after. The 6000 it replaced didn't have a problem, neither did the 811 with it's first generation SW. It was only after the first SW update that the 49% problem appeared.

Coincidently, when the "dropped OTA channel when not broadcasting" bug was fixed, the 49% problem cropped up. People have reported using button pushing techniques to get by the 49% problem. The 49% problem is typified by a hesitation to lock the signal when programming the channel. It will program but not be saved to memory. Sometimes it will work, and sometimes it won't.

I can't blame this solely on the antenna setups.


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## Guest

I added a second antenna aimed at the problem 49% station. That solved my problem. I too think it is a multipath issue and the inability for the 811's current software to handle it.


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## garypen

HTguy said:


> No. Some people may be having OTA problems for any number of reasons and a few people evidently are seeing the "49%" error relating to their particular OTA reception situation and/or their particular 811.
> 
> It does not follow that therefore "there is obviously a problem with the 811's OTA."
> 
> I have absolutely no OTA problem. Only one 811 customer has reported any OTA reception issues and that had nothing to do with any "49% bug."
> 
> If anybody is sure that their OTA antenna set-up is optimum and nevertheless has a particular problem ("49% bug" or whatever) the sensible thing to do would be to exchange that specific 811 receiver.


There *is* a problem with the 811's ability to receive OTA digital broadcasts. It is very simple. It _appears_ to be an inability to handle multipath issues. This may not affect everybody that owns one, which is obviously your case. It is apparently due to a weakness in the 811, not in the customers setups.

If you'd open your mind to the information presented by many forum members, such as comparisons with Dish 6000 and non-Dish OTA and Sat/OTA receivers, or the changes in reception from one 811 SW update to the next, instead of staying in perpetual "Dish defense" mode, you'd be able to see it, as well.


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## Cholly

At my location, I'm unable to use an outdoor antena due to large evergreens blocking the locations where I can mount the antenna. I tried seven different indoor antennas in combination with amplifiers, to no avail. I bought a Channel Master "Stealth" antenna the other day and mounted it on a plastic crate in my attic. With a little tweaking, I finally am able to get a lock on three out of four local OTA digitals. The fourth (CBS local) became marginal when I rotated the antenna to get better reception of the other three. The local digital OTA stations in the Binghamton DMA are on chan. 4 (ABC), 7 (CBS), 8 (Fox & UPN) and 42 (PBS). The ABC outlet is the only one broadcasting in HD at present. I've learned that the Stealth has a slight signal loss on VHF channels when compared to a standard dipole, so plan to go with a different (red/blue rating) antenns with gain characteristics on VHF.
Now that I'm receiving my locals via the 811, I can report on some PQ issues, which confirm other folks' findings. The following results are from side by side comparisons on my Sony 32" HDTV monitor 
1. When watching local digital broadcasts: picture on DVI input is slightly darker than S-video and colors less saturated.
2. When watching HD from Dish, DVI input appears slightly brighter than S-Video, but again colors less saturated. Since colors are kind of washed out on DVI input, picture may not be as bright as it seems.
3.When watching analog locals: signal from cable significantly brighter than from the 811 OTA. Again, color saturation is lowest on DVI from the 811. 

I discussed antenna choices with the engineering department of my local ABC outlet and although I'm ony 6 miles from all the local transmitting towers, they said that because of the fact that I have attic antenna and have trees higher than 30 ft. obstructing line of sight to the towers, I should go with an antenna coded red/blue rather than green/yellow.


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## garypen

Have you tried the inline amp with the StealthTenna?They make one especially for it. (Part# 3038) It's probably only 50/50 whether it will help. But, it's worth a shot.


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## Cholly

garypen said:


> Have you tried the inline amp with the StealthTenna?They make one especially for it. (Part# 3038) It's probably only 50/50 whether it will help. But, it's worth a shot.


I'm aware of the amp. It's mentioned in the instructions. Unfortunately, Lowe's doesn't carry it. The only wideband inline amp I've found locally is one from Radio Shack -- around $40 with power adapter. I tried a 4 output amp I have and signal level & quality went down rather than up. Go figure.
Since my last post, I rerouted the coax in its permanent location. In doing so, I had to disconnect it from the antenna and then reinstall it. Of course, that meant moving the ant. and now I'm having signal problems. Gotta tweak the antenna orientation and location again. It's very sensitive to even small changes.


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## chenrikson

Since my last post, I rerouted the coax in its permanent location. In doing so, I had to disconnect it from the antenna and then reinstall it. Of course, that meant moving the ant. and now I'm having signal problems. Gotta tweak the antenna orientation and location again. It's very sensitive to even small changes.[/QUOTE] (insert space here)

That is for sure. Mine was all ok, and then I rotated the indoor attic antenna about 15 degrees. This caused one of my stations to exhibit the dreaded 49% problem. Moving the antenna back just a VERY little bit fixed the problem.

Craig


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## HTguy

garypen said:


> There *is* a problem with the 811's ability to receive OTA digital broadcasts. It is very simple. It _appears_ to be an inability to handle multipath issues. This may not affect everybody that owns one, which is obviously your case. It is apparently due to a weakness in the 811, not in the customers setups.
> 
> If you'd open your mind to the information presented by many forum members, such as comparisons with Dish 6000 and non-Dish OTA and Sat/OTA receivers, or the changes in reception from one 811 SW update to the next, instead of staying in perpetual "Dish defense" mode, you'd be able to see it, as well.


I am not in a "Dish Defense" mode. Quite the contrary, I have many issues with them as a retailer and even a few as a subscriber.

I have much more experience with 811s than most here having sold scores of them and installed many myself. My customers live in all sorts of reception environments. Several live in multipath areas where they have always been plagued with severe ghosting on the analog channels. But none of them are having these problems.

We always put in a high-gain directional antenna, usually the Winegard UHF HD9065P, sometimes the UHF HD9095P in fringe areas. Lately, we have used a few SS-1000 "SquareShooters" for those in good reception areas and we have many, many previous customers with the UHF/VHF/FM HD7078P or 7082.
I use the 7078 at work and at home.

Anyone using an omni antenna can expect problems with OTA reception, digital or analog, regardless of receiver, especially if it is indoors or in the attic. It is unfortunate that some people do not have a choice.

Nobody is claiming that the 811 contains the best 8VSB tuner in the world. It is better than many, not as good as some. _It is what it is_. The 811 is a $399 SRP combination HD IRD/8VSB that most users get for free, half-price or less. I have seen some recent high-end HDTVs' internal HD tuners outperform it just as I have seen it outperform several other dbs HD receivers. I don't have much experience with stand-alone HD OTA-only tuners but I would expect them to be better given their price and function.

So, yes some 811 users with multipath problems are obviously experiencing issues. But not all. Evidently, not the majority.

So for those few who have the "49% bug" or whatever it seems to me there are some logical choices:


See if the upcoming software downloads result in any improvement. (BTW, this is a capability the vast majority of OTA HD tuners do not have.)
Move or adjust your existing antenna. (See post directly above.)
Install a high-gain high-Q antenna (with a rotor if necessary.)
Get a Return Authorization and exchange your 811.
Get a different HD receiver: stand-alone, built-in HDTV, or DirecTV. 
All of the above.

Perhaps you have a friend with a DirecTV HD receiver with a similar antenna and reception conditions. If so, you might even be able to talk him into bringing his box over to compare with your for OTA. (I've done quite a few DirecTV HDs as well with product from Sony, RCA & LG and I sure don't see better OTA performance, quite the opposite.)

Or you could just keep insisting "the 811" is the problem. It's "weak." It's a "POS." Whatever. See how much that improves things.


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## garypen

HTguy said:


> Or you could just keep insisting "the 811" is the problem. It's "weak." It's a "POS." Whatever. See how much that improves things.


I don't think it's weak, as evidenced by the strong signals it shows, once locked in. It does have a problem locking. And, I've seen it change from sw update to sw update. So, I would have to say it is definitely an 811 issue. But, since previous sw updates have affected OTA reception, I believe that future ones can fix or improve it, as well. I hope the new energy exhibited in the recent tech chat is a good omen in that regard.


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## garypen

Cholly said:


> I tried a 4 output amp I have and signal level & quality went down rather than up. Go figure.


It may not have been a very good amp. Even more likely is that you didn't terminate the unused outputs with 75 ohm terminating resistors. The open outputs would have caused signal loss.

I'm sure the StealthTenna amp is available online somewhere.

Good luck!


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## Guest

Undoubtedly, the software causes the 49% problem as the 811 never displayed the characteristic upon it's release, only after the first SW update.


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## Ron Barry

Cholly,

If you have a multi-path issue, using a preamp will make things worse and not fix anything. I know that from experience. 

Also, the percentage indicator on the 811 may not refer to signal strength. The 6000 does not.. I was told it a ratio of strength and error correction. So if you are getting a lot of errors from mult-pathing recepation etc. it will drive the indication down. Not sure if the 811 is the same as the 6000, but it would not suprise me. 

My suggestion is to put a pre-amp and a rectifier so you can adjust the amplification. This is allow for fine tuning. Pre-amp will only help with a weak signal. If you got multi-pathing issues you need to employ other tricks like multiple antennas.


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## Cholly

Thanks to all for the suggestions on improving OTA performance. I'm probably going to exchange my Channel Master 3010 Stealth Antenna for a 3016. Choices of antennas are rather limited in this area. One must go to Lowe's for Channel Master, Home Depot for RCA or Radio Shack for their branded merchandise. Winegard antennas are not sold in this area. I long for the days of a good electronics distributor.
I've never been a fan of antenna amplifiers, preferring instead a good high gain antenna. (Bad, noisy, weak signal with multipath issues amplified equals bad, noisy strong signal with multipath issues). 
I'm now wondering how severe the effect of snow on the roof will be once I get the antenna issue resolved.
Interesting aside: the local ABC affiliate "grey bars" their digital transmission when program source is not HD in order to minimize burnin effects on widescreen projection & Plasma receivers.


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## garypen

Cholly said:


> Thanks to all for the suggestions on improving OTA performance. I'm probably going to exchange my Channel Master 3010 Stealth Antenna for a 3016.


If it fits in the attic, sure. A real "fishbone" will probably work better than an apt-style model.


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## Jerry 42

Perhaps some one can give me some info on this 811 OTA problem.

At certain times when I tune to a digital OTA station the signal meter indicates 80 - 88 % but I get the message - unable to lock. The other OTA stations will work fine. If I go to a Sat based station for a minute or two and then go back to that first OTA station the 811 will "see" the station and work correctly. 

Note it is not just station station - it happen periodicaly to all my OTA digital stations.
I do not get analog OTA stations. Any body have an idea or just live with it.

Thanks


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## Guest

Do you have the new software, version 266? What is your antenna configuration?


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## garypen

Jerry 42 said:


> Any body have an idea or just live with it.
> 
> Thanks


You _may_ have to live with it. But, perhaps not for long. The 811's OTA reception is notoriously flaky. However, Dish is currently updating the 811's software. This update _may_ have a fix. Previous updates have caused some improvement.

Power your 811 down for a while. The update should load automatically. I believe both the Sat and OTA led's will light while updating.


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## Jerry 42

Thank you everyone 

We will see what the new SW does.


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## HTguy

WeeJavaDude said:


> Cholly,
> 
> If you have a multi-path issue, using a preamp will make things worse and not fix anything. I know that from experience.
> 
> Also, the percentage indicator on the 811 may not refer to signal strength. The 6000 does not.. I was told it a ratio of strength and error correction. So if you are getting a lot of errors from mult-pathing recepation etc. it will drive the indication down. Not sure if the 811 is the same as the 6000, but it would not suprise me.
> 
> My suggestion is to put a pre-amp and a rectifier so you can adjust the amplification. This is allow for fine tuning. Pre-amp will only help with a weak signal. If you got multi-pathing issues you need to employ other tricks like multiple antennas.


You are absolutely correct, *WJD* about the "signal strength" indicator and multipath errors.

BTW, since some are reporting that their own multipath (or 49%) problems began or were aggravated by P265 I suspect that there was a trade-off between the bug fixes that it provided and marginal reception capability. If that is in fact the case I would not necessarily expect any improvement in future SW releases.

Now that P266 is in we will no doubt get some reports. But some of you guys may just have to start considering a different antenna or mounting position if possible.

Multipath is the bane of 8VSB DigitalTV reception. The more "directional" the antenna, the better.


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## Cholly

garypen said:


> If it fits in the attic, sure. A real "fishbone" will probably work better than an apt-style model.


Well, I bought the Channel Master 3016 and it just manages to fit between collar beams in my attic. I was fortunate to get the loan of a Leader LF941 TV Signal Level Meter from my Dish retailer, and used it to assist in pointing the antenna. Interestingly, WIVT-DT, the ABC local digital feed, is on low band VHF (channel 4) and I got the strongest reading on it of all the local digital channels. However, when I checked reception on my TV, the signal quality reading for this channel was (you guessed it!) 49! All the others are in the upper 80's. I'm going to have to try rotating the antenna a few degrees to the east to see if possible multipath problems can be cleared. Antennaweb.org states that WIVT-DT is at 134 degrees compass orientation from me, while all the others are at 137 degrees.


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## Guest

Remember that pointing an antenna is a 3D thing. You can elevate it too, that is point it above or below the horizon.


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## garypen

gpflepsen said:


> Remember that pointing an antenna is a 3D thing. You can elevate it too, that is point it above or below the horizon.


That's how Kirk defeated Kahn in the Motari Nebula.


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## Guest

Now that I think about it, aiming the antenna is a 2D thing, X and Y. 3D would involve moving to another location.


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## jenkinswoody

FWIW-
I have the 49% problem too- I imagine there are several of us lurkers that have this problem.......(OTA was fine- then bad w/ software "upgrade") :eek2:


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## ypsiguy

Sounds like they are working the bugs out of the 811, but man I really wish it had a hard drive in it. I think I am going to wait for the 942, if they bring it out.


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## joe.niles

I just got my 811 Installed today  , So far it working pretty good. My main problem is with the favorites  . When I add my HD Locals to a HDTV favorite only two of the 12 stay!!! Also can not enter the Local station numbe 2- 69. It just stays onthe sation I'm currently on... Currently watch DSCHD. It is great pictures and sound. :hurah:


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## jerryez

Try adding them as the digital channel number and not where they map to.


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## garypen

Joe - To tune in your local stations directly with the remote, you need to enter a 3 digit number. Example: for ch. 26, type 026. For ch. 2, type 002, etc. This will bring you to the Dish local channels, 002-0, 026-0, etc. If you want to go directly to the digital OTA channel, then type 0021 for 2.1, 0261, for 26.1, etc.

As for your favorites problems, I have no idea. I do know that at one time, if an OTA channel did not lock immediately, it would disappear from the EPG and favorites. It was fixed with one of the updates. However, it appears that the recent update P266 has brought this bug back.

I also reommend choosing "Display Dish Locals" from the "Disply Opts" setup screen in the Local Channel setup menu. It remap your Dish locals (82xx) to your local channels numbers, followed by a zero. That way, they sit next to your OTA channels in the EPG, to make up for Dish's glaring lack of OTA program info. It doesn't replace a proper OTA EPG, but it's the next best thing.


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## joe.niles

garypen said:


> Joe - To tune in your local stations directly with the remote, you need to enter a 3 digit number. Example: for ch. 26, type 026. For ch. 2, type 002, etc. This will bring you to the Dish local channels, 002-0, 026-0, etc. If you want to go directly to the digital OTA channel, then type 0021 for 2.1, 0261, for 26.1, etc.
> 
> As for your favorites problems, I have no idea. I do know that at one time, if an OTA channel did not lock immediately, it would disappear from the EPG and favorites. It was fixed with one of the updates. However, it appears that the recent update P266 has brought this bug back.
> 
> I also reommend choosing "Display Dish Locals" from the "Disply Opts" setup screen in the Local Channel setup menu. It remap your Dish locals (82xx) to your local channels numbers, followed by a zero. That way, they sit next to your OTA channels in the EPG, to make up for Dish's glaring lack of OTA program info. It doesn't replace a proper OTA EPG, but it's the next best thing.


Thanks

They fixed the problem  .....


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## garypen

They? They? Do you mean the voices in your head?


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## jmogl

811 Bug Issue?

I have been dealing with an intermittent double image problem on SD signals on OTA ATSC channels. For example, about every 30 seconds or so on UPN 21 (Dallas), I would see a double image. I have the 811 hooked up through a Gefen DVI switcher to Samsung 567 DLP. When UPN transmits in HD (1080i), I do not have a problem. This is true with several other locals. BTW, I ruled out the Gefen switch as the issue. This problem does not occur on the satellite channels.

I added an amplifier which improved my PBS reception. I had difficulty locking the channel before. The signal to noise ratio improved 5-10% across the board. I am 45 miles from the towers.

I asked Dish to send me a replacement 811 assuming there is something wrong with the receiver. Unfortunately the replacement 811 had the same issue. However I tried experimenting with the 811 HDTV settings (1080i vs 720p). My TV is 720p, but I have found that the TV does a much better job scaling 1080i to 720p then the 811 does. This is very noticeable on native 1080i channels such as HDNET while watching sports. So I usually leave the 811 set to 1080i.

The interesting thing is that I do not have a double image problem when the receiver is set to 720p on the OTA channels!!! So my work around is to set the receiver to 720p when watching local OTA channels in standard definition.

I contacted tech support, but I got the impression that he was not going to forward the info and just wanted me off of the phone. I detailed the issue when I sent the receiver back.

It would be interesting if others could reproduce the problem. If you have a native 720p TV with DVI, try your local channels with 720p and 1080i settings on the 811. You may need to leave the 1080i setting for 5 minutes or so for the double image to occur. For me, the frequency varied by channel.

Jeff


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## Mike D-CO5

I am having problems with my 811 dvi connection. All the blacks look like they are crushed and xrayed on dark contrast scenes. Dish claims no known bug on dvi outputs. I have read all the web boards and they clearly show that this is a known bug in the past. My question is is this still a problem with anyone else? I have a 57 inch Toshiba tv, just bought it from Bestbuy. Dish won't rma it unless I get Best Buy to chech the dvi connection with another dvi box , like a dvd player, to see that it is not my tv or cable. Short of getting into the tv settings hidden menus in the tv , is there anything I can do or is this Dish 's problem?


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## Guest

What do you mean by "X-ray"?

My TV was able to be adjusted for satisfactory DVI dark performance with the 811. S-Video is another matter.


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## Jason Nipp

jmogl said:


> 811 Bug Issue?
> 
> I have been dealing with an intermittent double image problem on SD signals on OTA ATSC channels. For example, about every 30 seconds or so on UPN 21 (Dallas), I would see a double image. I have the 811 hooked up through a Gefen DVI switcher to Samsung 567 DLP. When UPN transmits in HD (1080i), I do not have a problem. This is true with several other locals. BTW, I ruled out the Gefen switch as the issue. This problem does not occur on the satellite channels.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff, I used to service TV's. In my experience, nowadays, when you see ghosting, it is usually your tuner chasing down two signals at the same time. Analog interference can becaused by many sources, including it's own source. This is why DTV is so much nicer.

Jason


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## jmogl

The double image was occurring on ATSC digital OTA channels when they were transmitting Standard Def. At least for me it was definitely related to having the 811 set to 1080i. The problem didn't occur on 720p. I have not had any problems on the satellite channels, only OTA. It is possible that the problem is with my set and not the receiver, but I have not had any issues with any other sources including my HTPC wit DVI.


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## Mike D-CO5

gpflepsen said:


> What do you mean by "X-ray"?
> 
> My TV was able to be adjusted for satisfactory DVI dark performance with the 811. S-Video is another matter.


 In dark areas of the picture or black areas the picture looked almost like xrays. The color of their hair would be a glowing xray color in the shadows. When they entered a room like on HDTnt on the show The Others, she would be all in the dark but her dress would glow almost like a high white xray color. IT sucked big time. It also happened on the regular tnt channel as well. OF course Dish had never heard of this problem before.


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## scpanel

I just got my 811 installed today, and I am unable to get the DVI to work at all with my Panasonic DLP. Component works fine but wonder if there is a problem with the reciever. I was told by the techs and Dish support that it only works w/Dish TV's which does not make sense at all.

Has anyone experienced the same problem by chance?


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## garypen

scpanel said:


> I just got my 811 installed today, and I am unable to get the DVI to work at all with my Panasonic DLP. Component works fine but wonder if there is a problem with the reciever. I was told by the techs and Dish support that it only works w/Dish TV's which does not make sense at all.
> 
> Has anyone experienced the same problem by chance?


Yes. That does not make sense at all. Perhaps you have a bad DVI cable?


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## Avillant

I just replaced my 6000 with the 811 last week. So far I am reasonably pleased with it, but hope they get the bugs fixed soon. I have the following problem:
The SD output formating on the satellite channels works just fine. 16:9 video is letterboxed to fit the screen and 4:3 video is expanded to fit a 4:3 TV screen.
However on the OTA channels it is a different story. The SD formating is all wrong. 16:9 video is letterboxed to fit a 4:3 TV screen (which is okay), but 4:3 video is also letterboxed with black bars on each side. This results in undersized 4:3 video with black bars all around, resulting in video that does not fill a 4:3 screen. Has any one else had this problem or do I have a bad receiver.
My first go around with DISH Tech was a disaster. I couldn't even convince the person I talked too that this was wrong (could hardly understand her).

TonyV


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## Guest

Avillant- I assume your TV is a 4x3 HDTV and you are using the SD outputs from the 811, either S-Video or Composite.

The 811 will output a 4x3 image ALWAYS on the SD outputs. This image will always fill the 4x3 TV screen. An SD satellite channel will fill this area.

An HD channel will have black bars imposed by the 811 on the top and bottom, as it must be in a 16x9 format. When you watch an SD program on an OTA digital station broadcasting in 1080i or 720p or 480p WS, the same top and bottom black bars must be present to keep the 16x9 format. To keep the program material 4x3, the broadcasters insert their black bars on the sides. What you end up with is a 4x3 window imposed in a 16x9 window imposed on a 4x3 screen. You see a 4x3 image with a black boarder all the way around.

You can tune to the analog version of the digital channel to fill the screen. Some OTA digitals are broadcasting 480i, which is in 4x3 and will fill the screen. My local PBS does this when simulcasting 3 SD programs.


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## Cholly

scpanel said:


> I just got my 811 installed today, and I am unable to get the DVI to work at all with my Panasonic DLP. Component works fine but wonder if there is a problem with the reciever. I was told by the techs and Dish support that it only works w/Dish TV's which does not make sense at all.
> 
> Has anyone experienced the same problem by chance?


I have my Sony 32" HDTV monitor connected via DVI cable. These people don't know what they're talking about! As Gary said, you could have a bad DVI cable. Also, (may sound dumb), make sure your DVI input is enabled


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## Avillant

gpflepsen said:


> Avillant- I assume your TV is a 4x3 HDTV and you are using the SD outputs from the 811, either S-Video or Composite.
> 
> The 811 will output a 4x3 image ALWAYS on the SD outputs. This image will always fill the 4x3 TV screen. An SD satellite channel will fill this area.
> 
> An HD channel will have black bars imposed by the 811 on the top and bottom, as it must be in a 16x9 format. When you watch an SD program on an OTA digital station broadcasting in 1080i or 720p or 480p WS, the same top and bottom black bars must be present to keep the 16x9 format. To keep the program material 4x3, the broadcasters insert their black bars on the sides. What you end up with is a 4x3 window imposed in a 16x9 window imposed on a 4x3 screen. You see a 4x3 image with a black boarder all the way around.
> 
> You can tune to the analog version of the digital channel to fill the screen. Some OTA digitals are broadcasting 480i, which is in 4x3 and will fill the screen. My local PBS does this when simulcasting 3 SD programs.


Thanks for the info. I tried the analog signal on the OTA station I was interested in. Like you said, it formats okay, however, the picture quality is really el sucko. I am only using this to record on a VCR for 30 min once a week, so the priority is not very high. However, I think DISH should fix this problem some time in the future. My 6000 that I replaced with the 811 did this function just fine. Thanks again

TonyV


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## khearrean

Avillant said:


> I tried the analog signal on the OTA station I was interested in. Like you said, it formats okay, however, the picture quality is really el sucko.
> TonyV


In regard to the 811's OTA tuner, has there been any word or rumors at all regarding it's improvements. When trying to view analog cable via that tuner, my picture is still horrible. So I'm still using my VCR's tuner to view my locals via analog cable...I continue to post this from time to time in hopes that maybe someone has heard of any improvements. So far, no change with the last (3) software downloads.

Ken


----------



## Guest

I think the abhorrent OTA SD performance is purposefully being ignored by E*. What does this mean? I could be looking for a different receiver at about my 1 year point from buying the 811.


----------



## garypen

gpflepsen said:


> I think the abhorrent OTA SD performance is purposefully being ignored by E*. What does this mean? I could be looking for a different receiver at about my 1 year point from buying the 811.


OTA digital SD looks pretty good from my 811. Did you mean to say "OTA analog" as opposed to "OTA SD"?


----------



## Guest

OTA analog sd


----------



## Unclejeff

I just got my 811. I have a Zenith HD Receiver ant the quality of the OTA signals is far superior to the 811. The 811 keeps losing my local OTA PBS cannel. It has been less than a week and I am already getting tired of having to scan local digital OTA channels just to watch what I was enjoying last night. I am fortunate that my HD projector has multiple inputs so I can dispense with the 811's OTA.

This is very frustrating. Betamax was far superior to VHS and they under-funded and outsmarted themselves into oblivion. Folks at Dish need to service the customers with decent hardware. Yes, the telephone support is excellent but, must I keep turning the system off-on-off-on-off-on, etc., every night?


----------



## drjlo

gpflepsen said:


> OTA analog sd


Forget about 811 OTA analogue tuning. It's the worst signal I've seen of any kind in my entire life, including VCR's. Any $10 analogue tuner will do a better job than 811. DISH is NOT going to fix it, as it is likely a hardware problem than software defect of 811.

811 analogue SD OTA PQ, I would estimate, is about 20% as good as 811 digital SD OTA. It's unwatcheable.

And I have given up that my 811 will ever be bug-free. After all the firmware updates, it still loses OTA channels occasionally, still refuses to turn on via remote sometimes, stlll freezes when "guide" is fixed time to time or for no apparent reason. I still have to go through the unplug-plug routine every few days (admittedly less frequent than before). I do not believe that DISH is capable of creating a trouble-free 811. EVER.


----------



## Jaspear

drjlo said:


> And I have given up that my 811 will ever be bug-free. After all the firmware updates, it still loses OTA channels occasionally, still refuses to turn on via remote sometimes, stlll freezes when "guide" is fixed time to time or for no apparent reason. I still have to go through the unplug-plug routine every few days (admittedly less frequent than before). I do not believe that DISH is capable of creating a trouble-free 811. EVER.


I'm still waiting for DISH to make the model 3000 bug free! 

I can live with all of the 811's quirks except for the continual picture freeze ups and frame drops, a problem I haven't seen discussed much on these forums. Watching the picture jerk once every minute or so is getting old. If they can't figure out how to fix this, I'll be looking for another (non-DISH) way to watch HD.


----------



## Guest

buckyp said:


> Holding down the power button only froze the screen. I had to unplug and replug. I guess I need to keep my plug more accessable. The guide seems to be fine for now.
> 
> Now if I could get it to keep from downloading program info everyday and get the locals off 49% i'd be happy. (oh yeah, and get a better SD picture)
> 
> and more HD Channels.
> 
> etc...


Actually If you see frozen picture it means it has rebooted,for what ever reason it is not clearing the screen, give some time to reboot and it will come up(atleast couple of minutes after you see picture frozen.)

And regarding 5 day guide it has only 2 day guide, you don't see it acquiring all the time because if you turn off you receiver(put in standby by pressing power on remote) it acquries the guide if available.


----------



## jmogl

As of now, the most annoying issue I have with the 811 is that it randomly acquires satellite and redownloads the guide (when I push the guide button), usually when I am on the OTA channels. When are they going to get this fixed? 

Also why can they not fix the real simple things such as getting recall to work with the OTA channels?????

Jeff


----------



## jerryez

The OTA channels and sat channels are two seperate tuners. I doubt that recall will ever work between the two. Also, you must turn your 811 sat receiver off when not in use. Then the guide will download when receiver is off. The 811 will always go to downloading the guide, if it is not turned off when not in use. That is by design.


----------



## SimpleSimon

jerryez said:


> The OTA channels and sat channels are two seperate tuners. I doubt that recall will ever work between the two.


You're right that they're separate tuners, but that's nothing to do with the recall function. Think it through - you can punch number buttons on your remote and jump directly to OTA or Satellite - and back.

A programmable remote might even be able to simulate a Recall function (under limited circumstances because of the hter ways to switch channels).

Therefore, the software inside the box should be able to remember the last channel numbewr it was on and return to it.

It's nothing more than a software design or programming flaw - that also exists in the 921. I would guess that the internal Recall operation is keeping track of tuner number and other 'detail' level junk instead of the simple solution of just tracking the channel number.


----------



## Mike123abc

jerryez said:


> The OTA channels and sat channels are two seperate tuners. I doubt that recall will ever work between the two. Also, you must turn your 811 sat receiver off when not in use. Then the guide will download when receiver is off. The 811 will always go to downloading the guide, if it is not turned off when not in use. That is by design.


The 6000 has 2 separate tuners, in fact OTA is an add in card, it can do the recall to swap between the OTA and satellite without problems.


----------



## garypen

jerryez said:


> The 811 will always go to downloading the guide, if it is not turned off when not in use. That is by design.


Well...it's a _stupid_ design. It should download the data in the _background_, whether the 811 is on or off, not when you select Guide. If, for some reason they can't get it to download in the background (engineering incompetence for instance), then it shouldn't download until you reach the limit of it's current date/time memory.


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## Guest

If you are tired if uplugging and replugging your Dish 811 here's a little easier method of "unsticking" the receiver.

Hold the power button on the front of the receiver about 5 secs then release and wait. The system will reset.

I am sick of all the bugs also. I am very dissappointed in the lack of success dish has made in fixing them. I have been a loyal customer for 6 years and this is the worst electronics purchase I have ever made.

For now I think I'll just go reset my 811 again, I am sure it's screwed up somewhere.

Perry


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## jerryez

The Dish technical supervisor also told me that the 811 freezes up, because it is not being turned off when not in use. Turn it off when not watching tv and it will not freeze up. It needs its rest. It also is not a problem that they are working on. Please don't shoot the messenger.


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## ee1995

jmogl said:


> As of now, the most annoying issue I have with the 811 is that it randomly acquires satellite and redownloads the guide (when I push the guide button), usually when I am on the OTA channels. When are they going to get this fixed?
> 
> Also why can they not fix the real simple things such as getting recall to work with the OTA channels?????
> 
> Jeff


I have found that you not only need to turn the receiver off but you must first "park" it on a SAT channel (not OTA) or it will not get the guide info and will go through the download the next time you press guide.


----------



## jmogl

ee1995 said:


> I have found that you not only need to turn the receiver off but you must first "park" it on a SAT channel (not OTA) or it will not get the guide info and will go through the download the next time you press guide.


I have found that leaving it on a SAT channel does help, but not completely eliminate the problem. I turn my 811 off everynight waiting for the magic download that will fix the major issues... :nono2:

Jeff


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## DHall

Just wondering if anyone else in the Chicago area has had this problem. All of my scanned OTA digital channels map properly except WGN channel 9. I've tried deleting and rescanning, and a power plug reboot with deleting and rescanning but nothing seems to work. It will show up the first time after I rescan as 9.01 and 9.02, but after I change channels, it reverts back to 19.01 and 19.02, the actual frequency. This happened before L267.

Also FYI, the recall works on the non-mapped channels. I can hit recall and go from 19.01 or 19.02 to any satellite channel I was on previously and back.

Dave


----------



## garypen

ee1995 said:


> I have found that you not only need to turn the receiver off but you must first "park" it on a SAT channel (not OTA) or it will not get the guide info and will go through the download the next time you press guide.


Well...since I only use my 811 for HD, which for the most part means OTA (I don't subscribe to the HD Pack), it's easy to forget to do that. It's also easy to forget switching to a Sat channel before choosing guide, as well. (And, quite frankly, I shouldn't have to do either. The friggin thing should just work correctly.)


----------



## cmcbeath

After receiving the 2.67 firmware, I can now jump between OTA and SAT channels without a problem! I didn't think this was suppose to fix this issue, but I am not complaining. I have also not a guide download issue yet either?
Is there more to this firmware than they are letting on? I think I am going to go to manual mode now that most of the big issues for me are fixed.

Anyone else see the same things I am?


----------



## Guest

snathanb said:


> My component out from the 811 is considerably darker than say, the component out from my DVD player, but only in 1080i mode.
> 
> I figured it was my set. When I had a Samsung OTA HD STB, I had the same darker picture on 1080i mode on it, too.


When using the dvi inputs from the 811 to your hd tv, here are some tips to dramtically improve picture quality

1. Turn sharpness down to nothing. Sharpness is a thowback to old analog cable. It was used to slightly blur the picture and blend the pixels at the edge of major color and contrat changes (i.e. black and white, blue and orange) so as to hide the poor picture you were getting in hopes of compensating and making your picture appear sharper. Since you have a high definition tv, the whole point is to get the sharpest picture possible, therefore, sharpness is a bad...bad feature in HD.

2. Turn off contrast and bightness. This will give you no picture at first, that is ok as you are then going to increase the brightness of you set to the appropriate level that looks best to you. the amount of ambient light in the room will change the amount of brightness you need, the brighter the room the more brightness you need.

3. Put your tv in standard def or enhannced def mode when watching standard def tv (480i or 480p). If you have the option, use the 480p option as this will give a noticibly better picture all around. When you watch your standard def programming in HD mode (720p/1080i) your standard picture may look like dirt as you are blowing up the pixels on your standard picture. Its like taking a picture with a disposible camera with 200 speed film and blowing the picture up to life size, can you say grainy, grr-ai-ai-ai-nn-yy.

The results you get from these suggestions will vary from monitor to monitor as not all HD monitors are built equally. (In other works, some monitors look great no matter what, some look like poo-poo no matter what, and others look great only when set correctly) good luck.


----------



## Guest

Perryz said:


> If you are tired if uplugging and replugging your Dish 811 here's a little easier method of "unsticking" the receiver.
> 
> Hold the power button on the front of the receiver about 5 secs then release and wait. The system will reset.
> 
> I am sick of all the bugs also. I am very dissappointed in the lack of success dish has made in fixing them. I have been a loyal customer for 6 years and this is the worst electronics purchase I have ever made.
> 
> For now I think I'll just go reset my 811 again, I am sure it's screwed up somewhere.
> 
> Perry


Perry,

I am sorry that you are have such a hard time with your 811, however, it will get better, I promise. The reason fixes have been slower in comming than have been in the past is because dish network made an error in judgement, that I suspect will not happen again soon. Dish network released several new rcvrs in a relatively short period of time, the 921, 811, 322, 522, & 311. They underestimated the amount of problems that these rcvrs would generate, in respect to software glitches and installers learning how to install these units. Fixes have been somewhat slow in coming; however, there is light at the end of the tunnel, 90% of the problems with these units have been resolved by the latest software release (different for each rcvr), and the next couple release over the next 30-60 days will greatly improve the stability and enjoyment of these products. Hang tight help is on the way


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## Jaspear

Beeker said:


> there is light at the end of the tunnel, 90% of the problems with these units have been resolved by the latest software release (different for each rcvr), and the next couple release over the next 30-60 days will greatly improve the stability and enjoyment of these products. Hang tight help is on the way


Beeker,

I do hope that, somewhere in the other 10%, is a fix for the constant frame drop problem on the 811.


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## khearrean

Beeker said:


> Perry,
> 
> I am sorry that you are have such a hard time with your 811, however, it will get better, I promise. The reason fixes have been slower in comming than have been in the past is because dish network made an error in judgement, that I suspect will not happen again soon. Dish network released several new rcvrs in a relatively short period of time, the 921, 811, 322, 522, & 311. They underestimated the amount of problems that these rcvrs would generate, in respect to software glitches and installers learning how to install these units. Fixes have been somewhat slow in coming; however, there is light at the end of the tunnel, 90% of the problems with these units have been resolved by the latest software release (different for each rcvr), and the next couple release over the next 30-60 days will greatly improve the stability and enjoyment of these products. Hang tight help is on the way


Beeker:
Do you work for Dish?....just curious as to how you know these things! Can you say that one of the fixes will be the 811's OTA tuner's inability at present to handle analog signals? I've posted issues regarding this at least a dozen times as well as contact Dish's advance techs and have never been told what you say here. All I have ever been told is that the problem will be corrected with a software upgrade...Of course they've been telling me this now since I had my 811. The fact that I get a horrible picture when viewing my locals via analog cable thru the 811's OTA tuner really doesn't seem to me to be a fixable problem with software. My local home theater tech even agrees with this. He says this cannot be corrected with software and will either have to be addressed by re-building the 811 (which won't happen) or by a next generation model. He's the one that suggested & ran my cable for my locals via my VCR tuner, which does give a good picture. Of course that's a pain because I can't seamlessly integrate my locals into the 811's channel guide and I also have to change inputs when switching from sat to cable, but still at least it's a viewable & descent picture.

Ken


----------



## Avillant

cmcbeath said:


> After receiving the 2.67 firmware, I can now jump between OTA and SAT channels without a problem! I didn't think this was suppose to fix this issue, but I am not complaining. I have also not a guide download issue yet either?
> Is there more to this firmware than they are letting on? I think I am going to go to manual mode now that most of the big issues for me are fixed.
> 
> Anyone else see the same things I am?


My 811 will only jump between Sat channels. It will not jump between OTA channels or OTA to SAT. I don't think this was fixed.

Tony


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## Guest

My recall works between OTA analog and sat channels. The recall function doesn't work with OTA digital.


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## billbear

First post 811 ota hd i have what looks like white dash lines on top pic. shows on letterbox worse shows on gray box and can see in stretch mode . Pic is great nice clear only does this on ota hd this 811 problem or my tv ? sammy hln4365w BTW happens in dvi and componet


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## Guest

that incorrect bec some rcvrs are uhf only & u can't operate them using an ir remote


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## bnaivar

billbear said:


> First post 811 ota hd i have what looks like white dash lines on top pic. shows on letterbox worse shows on gray box and can see in stretch mode . Pic is great nice clear only does this on ota hd this 811 problem or my tv ? sammy hln4365w BTW happens in dvi and componet


I had the same problem. Have the 811 replaced.


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## Guest

dishnetwork technician said:


> that incorrect bec some rcvrs are uhf only & u can't operate them using an ir remote


Which receiver models are UHF only?


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## Bobby94928

dishnetwork technician said:


> that incorrect bec some rcvrs are uhf only & u can't operate them using an ir remote


I think you are incorrect. Some remotes (the 811 for example) are UHF only, but all of the receivers are IR with most being UHF-IR.


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## garypen

If he really is a Dish tech, do you find it surprising that he could be so wrong? 

I didn't think so.


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## jerryez

Aren't they always wrong?


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## garypen

More often than they should be, anyway. It's probably not entirely their fault though. They're just misinformed, I would guess. 

Their Exec Support is pretty damned decent though. They need to rub some of that off on the standard CS unit.

And, I've found the Tech folks much more on the ball than general CSR's.


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## billbear

let me add my 2 cents i have the 811 and the prv501 am able control both by my kameleon allinone urc-9960 remote what i believe is only ir was also able do one key remote to remote that had to of been ir output


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## Guest

billbear said:


> let me add my 2 cents i have the 811 and the prv501 am able control both by my kameleon allinone urc-9960 remote what i believe is only ir was also able do one key remote to remote that had to of been ir output


Huh?


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## Bobby94928

gpflepsen said:


> Huh?


I guess he knew what he meant....


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## Guest

Now that I'm sober, it still doesn't make sense.


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## garypen

billbear's post makes kwajr, steveox, and stonecold look like Hemingway, Steinbeck, and Bradbury.


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## Cholly

garypen said:


> billbear's post makes kwajr, steveox, and stonecold look like Hemingway, Steinbeck, and Bradbury.


Funny -- I can almost understand him. He has a OneForAll Kameleon Universal Remote. It's a rather cool remote with learning capabilities. I'm considering getting one myself to eliminate the remote clutter I'm currently dealing with.
I guess he's also saying that the 811 is IR controllable, and I'll have to agree with that -- I can control mine from my standalone TiVo, using the TiVo's IR blasters placed in front of the IR receiver on the 811.


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## billbear

bnaivar said:


> I had the same problem. Have the 811 replaced.


How does one go about haven one replaced ? i call today tech said must be a new software problem . I said i read what you said he blew that off i said how do i have unit taken back call my office of the attorney general state that product is not what i bought ? he said what ever it takes


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## Codeman00

I have finally experienced a real 811 problem. After my receiver is on for awhile, the picture starts pixelating a little bit and over a few minutes time, it gets worse and worse to the point where the menus wont work and the picture is one solid pixelated mess. It finally shows no picture at all...just a black screen and now sound. This problem just started a week or so ago. 

A reboot seems to make things go back to normal for a few minutes, but you can see the pixelating start while the "searching for transponder" screen is up. By the time the TV picture comes on, it's well on its way to locking up again. An unplug allows the picture to work correctly for longer but with the same result (almost like the warmer the receiver is, the more tendency to pixelate.

Tech support told me, I either need to have someone come out or take my receiver in and get it checked out. The problem with taking it in is that I'm not sure how long it would take to reproduce the problem...I'm pretty sure I could reproduce it at my house.

Has anyone had a similar problem? What did you do about it?


----------



## bnaivar

Codeman00 said:


> I have finally experienced a real 811 problem. After my receiver is on for awhile, the picture starts pixelating a little bit and over a few minutes time, it gets worse and worse to the point where the menus wont work and the picture is one solid pixelated mess. It finally shows no picture at all...just a black screen and now sound. This problem just started a week or so ago.
> 
> A reboot seems to make things go back to normal for a few minutes, but you can see the pixelating start while the "searching for transponder" screen is up. By the time the TV picture comes on, it's well on its way to locking up again. An unplug allows the picture to work correctly for longer but with the same result (almost like the warmer the receiver is, the more tendency to pixelate.
> 
> Tech support told me, I either need to have someone come out or take my receiver in and get it checked out. The problem with taking it in is that I'm not sure how long it would take to reproduce the problem...I'm pretty sure I could reproduce it at my house.
> 
> Has anyone had a similar problem? What did you do about it?


Just channel up/down and it will go away.


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## Codeman00

bnaivar said:


> Just channel up/down and it will go away.


I can sometimes channel up and down..but that doesnt allow me to get to the menu or the program guide. My local Dish installer told me to ventilate my receiver a little more...it might be a heat issue. It very well could be since when I power it off for awhile, I get hours of use from it..after a reboot I get almost no use out of it. I'm going to try to ventilate it tonight. We'll see.


----------



## chrisk

You migh try "ventilating" it with a .45. :lol: Then you would definately get a new receiver.


----------



## Codeman00

chrisk said:


> You migh try "ventilating" it with a .45. :lol: Then you would definately get a new receiver.


Not a bad idea...hopefully a 357 SIG will do the job..thats the biggest caliber I have lying around. I'll let you know how it turns out!


----------



## jamullian

After all the negative press about OTA on the 811 I thought I'd add something positive for once.

Yesterday I finally got my 921 (after 3+ years of promises) and moved my 811 to another part of the house that has a big outdoor Channel Master and rotator. As we're in the mountains behind a ridge etc etc, and previous attempts at using a conventional analog OTA TV receiver even with a masthead amplifier generated one semi reasonable VHF channel and several more varieties of snow, I really didn't expect anything of the 811.

But just for grins I did a scan for Digital channels. FIVE came in with over 60% strength, and receive a perfectly clear signal. A couple more hover around between the dreaded 49 and 55% with a bit of rotating, and are just unreliable enough to cause problems. Zapped them out of the list.

So what I'm saying here is that the 811 [I'm now considering whole new antenna installation for my 921!] does actually serve as a useful OTA tuner even in deep fringe, contrary to some reports.


----------



## GregR

Hi,
I see most of the posts on this thread are on the OTA problem I just got my receiver and had a few good channels come thru the rest I believe will dial in when I turn the antenna.
I have a different problem though and posted a thread under

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=29330

Maybe I should have posted it here.

Anyway I experience horizontal noise/garbage while using DVI output at 1080i and it is lessened by setting the 811 to output 720p. But when I use componet input at 1080i I do not see this problem. Anyone over here have an idea?

Thanks for your help,
Greg


----------



## [email protected]

I just received a 811 receiver 2 days ago. I'm new to HD and could use some opinions and info from people who have already been there - done that.

I connected the 811 to my HD ready TV via component video and s/video connections. My TV has 16x9 screen. I can use the component for HD stations and S/video for SD or use the component video for both. The input mode can be switched with the TV remote. Depending on which input used, I can format the picture size with either the TV or 811 remote. Opinions as to which is better.

I already had an antenna in the attic connected to the TV for receiving my local stations. The antenna has been in the attic about 20+ years and aimed in the general direction of where I thought the transmiters were and I had excellent reception for all the analog stations (CBS,NBC, ABC, Fox, UPN, WB and PBS). I'm in NY Metro area. I plan on researching and replacing the antenna for one designed to receive digital, but in the meantime I figured I had nothing to lose so I connected it to the 811 and scanned for local channels. I picked up and locked on all of the analog and 7 digital (only digital I know that's missing is for WB). But I am wondering about the descriptions for the digital channels. Only ABC 7-01 is listed as "HD". NBC 4-02 is "SD" and all the rest are listed as "DT". When I tune into 7-01 the picture quality is better then on the others and my A/V receiver lists the audio as DD 5-1. The audio on the "DT" is DD 2 channel. What is "DT"? It also appears that all the OTA digital channels are broadcast in 4x3 format is this correct?


----------



## SimpleSimon

DT = Digital Television. OTA DT can be SD, ED, or HD - and they can change it on the fly - and often do - and don't necessarily supply the appropraite PSIP data to describe the signal & content. This is likely the cause of at least some of the problems that some E* receivers have with OTA.

Oh yeah, OTA = Over The Air.


----------



## khearrean

jamullian said:


> After all the negative press about OTA on the 811 I thought I'd add something positive for once.
> 
> Yesterday I finally got my 921 (after 3+ years of promises) and moved my 811 to another part of the house that has a big outdoor Channel Master and rotator. As we're in the mountains behind a ridge etc etc, and previous attempts at using a conventional analog OTA TV receiver even with a masthead amplifier generated one semi reasonable VHF channel and several more varieties of snow, I really didn't expect anything of the 811.
> 
> But just for grins I did a scan for Digital channels. FIVE came in with over 60% strength, and receive a perfectly clear signal. A couple more hover around between the dreaded 49 and 55% with a bit of rotating, and are just unreliable enough to cause problems. Zapped them out of the list.
> 
> So what I'm saying here is that the 811 [I'm now considering whole new antenna installation for my 921!] does actually serve as a useful OTA tuner even in deep fringe, contrary to some reports.


I may not be understanding your post, but the problems I have had with the 811's OTA is that it does not do a good job of handling analog signals. The reason I have been given is that it's trying to upconvert an analog signal (in my case, analog cable) and just cannot do so. The net result is an extremely lousy picture. I recently contacted my local home theater tech and he told me it didn't matter if it is analog cable or an OTA antenna, both are analog, at least here in the Beaumont, Tx. area. We only have one local affiliate here broadcasting HDTV, so he even said it would not be worth my time now to install an OTA antenna for just one station. I use my VCR's tuner to view my locals which gives me a pretty good picture. Because of that however, I can't seamlessly integrate those local channels into my 811 which is a pain, but at least I get a viewable picture. 
Ken


----------



## garypen

I don't think it has to do with upconverting. IIRC, the PQ from the analog OTA tuner is just as crappy when using the SD outputs as it is using the HD outputs. It's just a crappy crappy tuner.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

khearrean said:


> I may not be understanding your post, but the problems I have had with the 811's OTA is that it does not do a good job of handling analog signals. The reason I have been given is that it's trying to upconvert an analog signal (in my case, analog cable) and just cannot do so. The net result is an extremely lousy picture. I recently contacted my local home theater tech and he told me it didn't matter if it is analog cable or an OTA antenna, both are analog, at least here in the Beaumont, Tx. area. We only have one local affiliate here broadcasting HDTV, so he even said it would not be worth my time now to install an OTA antenna for just one station. I use my VCR's tuner to view my locals which gives me a pretty good picture. Because of that however, I can't seamlessly integrate those local channels into my 811 which is a pain, but at least I get a viewable picture.
> Ken


 Say I am in the Beaumont area-( Nederland )and I get three digital channels on my 921 and when I had the 811 the same.

KBMT 12 - channel 50 shows up as digital 12-1 strength around 63-74 
KBTV 4 - channel 40 shows up as digital 4-1 strength around 74
KFDM 6 - channel 21 shows up as digital 21-1 strength around 84
weather map digital 21-2

Channel 12 is the worst on reception and doesnot stay locked well due to the station itself is only outputting the minimum needed to be in compliance with the FCC. I talked to an engineer and he said they didn't have the money to put up a digital tower yet and they weren't going to do it till the FCC makes them. 
Channel 4 is the medium range channel and sometimes loses lock but not often.
Channel 6 is the best with a solid lock and 1080i on most primetime shows. 
Fox 64 is low power analog channel and I can't even see this one on my analog tvs without a ton of snow and static. . I don't know when they will ever get a digital signal and I really don't know how they are legally operating since all channels were supposed to be digital last year in May.

I hope someday that channel 12 will bite the bullet and increase their signal so it too will lock in the future and won't break up into blocks 10 times an hour. I would like to record off this channel a lot of shows, including the local news . I record off channel 4 for my wife the Passions soap opera , and it looks as good or better than the satellite channel of the same show.


----------



## khearrean

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Say I am in the Beaumont area-( Nederland )and I get three digital channels on my 921 and when I had the 811 the same.
> 
> KBMT 12 - channel 50 shows up as digital 12-1 strength around 63-74
> KBTV 4 - channel 40 shows up as digital 4-1 strength around 74
> KFDM 6 - channel 21 shows up as digital 21-1 strength around 84
> weather map digital 21-2
> 
> Channel 12 is the worst on reception and doesnot stay locked well due to the station itself is only outputting the minimum needed to be in compliance with the FCC. I talked to an engineer and he said they didn't have the money to put up a digital tower yet and they weren't going to do it till the FCC makes them.
> Channel 4 is the medium range channel and sometimes loses lock but not often.
> Channel 6 is the best with a solid lock and 1080i on most primetime shows.
> Fox 64 is low power analog channel and I can't even see this one on my analog tvs without a ton of snow and static. . I don't know when they will ever get a digital signal and I really don't know how they are legally operating since all channels were supposed to be digital last year in May.
> 
> I hope someday that channel 12 will bite the bullet and increase their signal so it too will lock in the future and won't break up into blocks 10 times an hour. I would like to record off this channel a lot of shows, including the local news . I record off channel 4 for my wife the Passions soap opera , and it looks as good or better than the satellite channel of the same show.


May I ask what type OTA antenna are you using?

Ken


----------



## Mike D-CO5

A terk 44 clip on antenna from Radio Shack in the mall. It is amplified and omni directional and it goes right on the satellite dish itself. Then you use the diplexor at the tv to seperate the tv from the sat signal and you can use one cable for both. It comes with all the cables , diplexors etc and it is easy to install. I did mine myself. Of course I bought some tools from RAdio Shack to do the cutting of the cables and putting the new cable ends on . If you can't do this you can pay your installer to do it. I use Satellite Discount Supply ,in the phone book, and they will do installs for 65.00. It was about 89.00 but you might be able to get one cheaper. I also tried the Zenith sliver sensor antenna from Sears and it worked but I had to constantly turn the antenna to the direction of each station , a real bother. I also can get all the analog channels out there as well as the digital versions. You will only end up with channel 4 and channel 6 with a strong digital signal till channel 12 coughs up the money for the digital tower install.


----------



## Jason Nipp

I bought an 811 this weekend, and even though I have yet to receive it I have a question. I will have an 811 and already have a Sammy DVD-HD931. I plan on using both thru my DVI connection but only have one DVI input. Have any of you used the DVI switches that are available, and if so are there any drawbacks/quality/performance issues to be aware of?

I am also testing an external scaler if any of you are interested. I have a thread for this under http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=29441

Jason


----------



## Jeraden

I just got my 811 today and am already having a problem. I did the DTV automatic scan and it picked up all my local digital channels except CBS. I went in and selected Add DTV channel to add it manually. I key in the callsign (25), and it says it has 90% signal strength, I type in a name for it, but then it never shows up in the actual list of channels. I can't tune to it directly either, I'm just taken to the next closest channel. Anyone know what I need to do to get it added? Its actually the strongest channel we have in my city and I have no problem getting it on my 6000, my hipix card, or my other OTA tuner.

Also, I went back and did an automatic scan again. While its check the channels, as soon as it hits 25 it increments the found channels by one (its actually the first one, the next isn't until 38). But it still never adds it to the the channel listing. It doesn't display it in the list of found channels. Help!


----------



## Guest

I just got my 811 last week. I installed a Radio Shack UHF antenna and I get 18 digital channels after scanning. All of my channels are in the 85-90% range. My problem is this... All of the digital channels fall into the lineup in order except UPN (ch 13). It only shows up at the end of the local channel lineup as channel 66. It jumps from local 13 to local 18. Yes, I do get it, but why doesn't it come right after local channel 13? I know that channel 66 is the actual frequency, but all of the other digital channels are in sucession.

Example... local 2, digital 2-01, local 4, digital 4-01


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## Mike123abc

It is up to the local station to send the remapping code in its signal. The station puts a code in the signal that tells the reciever that it wants to be remapped to a certain channel number. You might contact the station's engineering office to see if they are planning to put this in or not. It is possible that they do not want to since it might conflict with channels in an adjacent market.


----------



## lifterguy

Jeraden said:


> I just got my 811 today and am already having a problem. I did the DTV automatic scan and it picked up all my local digital channels except CBS. I went in and selected Add DTV channel to add it manually. I key in the callsign (25), and it says it has 90% signal strength, I type in a name for it, but then it never shows up in the actual list of channels. I can't tune to it directly either, I'm just taken to the next closest channel. Anyone know what I need to do to get it added? Its actually the strongest channel we have in my city and I have no problem getting it on my 6000, my hipix card, or my other OTA tuner.
> 
> Also, I went back and did an automatic scan again. While its check the channels, as soon as it hits 25 it increments the found channels by one (its actually the first one, the next isn't until 38). But it still never adds it to the the channel listing. It doesn't display it in the list of found channels. Help!


Jerden - I'm going to make a wild guess that you live in Pittsburgh, and your CBS affiliate on channel 25 is KDKA-DT. Okay, so it's not such a wild guess. I live in Pittsburgh, and I just got my 811 yesterday, and I'm having exactly the same problem. I have a Zenith HDTV with integrated tuner, and it receives KDKA-DT without any problems, and the 811 picks up all of my other channels (analog and digital) just fine. When doing the scan, it shows that it finds channel 25, and when I try to add it manually, it finds it and shows strong signal strength. I'm also puzzled as to why it won't show up in the guide even after adding it manually.
Has anyone else encountered this either in Pittsburgh or anywhere else?


----------



## dishking

I've seen this elsewhere...but nothing posted recently. I've got a new 811 with 2.68 downloaded. The audio sync is consistently off about 1-2 frames (I think) whether it's an HD sat channel or OTA. Anyone know any "fixes" other than power on/off, and channel up/down - which doesn't seem to work for me?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Question, on the optical out from the 811, My AV receiver indicates that it is receiving a Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro Logic signal simultaneously. Is this common of the 811? Is there a way to shift the output one way or another? I tried changing it to Digital, PCM Only, and Digital/PCM and there is no change in this status. The dual signal indication is not typical of my AV receiver.

Jason


----------



## Bobby94928

nippjas said:


> Question, on the optical out from the 811, My AV receiver indicates that it is receiving a Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro Logic signal simultaneously. Is this common of the 811? Is there a way to shift the output one way or another? I tried changing it to Digital, PCM Only, and Digital/PCM and there is no change in this status. The dual signal indication is not typical of my AV receiver.
> 
> Jason


If the source is not DD5.1, and most programs are not, then you will get the Pro-Logic version. What programs are you trying to receive in 5.1?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Bobby94928 said:


> If the source is not DD5.1, and most programs are not, then you will get the Pro-Logic version. What programs are you trying to receive in 5.1?


This happened while I was watching a show on HBOHD. After the ratings screen it said broadcast in Dolby Digital 5.1 where available. Like I said it's weird...I was able to decode the Dolby Digital signal, by my AV receiver was telling me that it was in both DD and DPL mode.

Jason


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## c_caz

Question for anyone using a DVD-R with the 811. How do your recordings look and are you happy with the quality? In particular are 4:3 shows saved with both side bars and top/bottom bars? I was playing around with the SVideo output of my 811 and all my 4:3 channels show up with both top and bottom bars and side bars. The 811 format does not change anything for SVideo, and my TV will not Zoom in enough to work around this. Is that how everyone else see's their 811 SVideo output? 

Secondly the fix they implemented a while back to lighten the picture makes the blacks look almost gray. Is that they case for others and would that also be saved to DVDR discs?


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Question for anyone using a DVD-R with the 811. How do your recordings look and are you happy with the quality? In particular are 4:3 shows saved with both side bars and top/bottom bars? I was playing around with the SVideo output of my 811 and all my 4:3 channels show up with both top and bottom bars and side bars. The 811 format does not change anything for SVideo, and my TV will not Zoom in enough to work around this. Is that how everyone else see's their 811 SVideo output?
> 
> Secondly the fix they implemented a while back to lighten the picture makes the blacks look almost gray. Is that they case for others and would that also be saved to DVDR discs?


I use my 811's S-Video output to a JVC SVHS-ET recorder. You must remember that this output is SD only. 4:3 SD content should fill a 4:3 screen, however if your watching this 4:3 SD playback on a 16:9 screen you will find the side bars. If your watching a Widescreen SD recording on a 4:3 screen you will likely get top and bottom bars and on a 16:9 screen with Widescreen SD content...mine letterboxes, but I'm sure results vary depending on equipment, if your using an external or internal scaler post 480i resolution...etc...

Hopefully in the case your DVD-R or TV has an Aspect ratio control with a zoom feature.

Hope this helps.

Jason


----------



## c_caz

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I understand the 4:3 side bar point... It's just the SVideo output seems to be further indented both with side/bars and top and bottom bars. If I ZOOM the Svideo output (on my TV's aspect ratio control - 16:9 screen) it will ZOOM in enough to get rid of the extra side bars and top and bottom bars leaving a 4:3 picture with black side bars. It seems like there is an extra amount of formating, which I want to blame on the 811 (poor 811... gets no respect). My tv is a Pioneer 16:9 and it could be an issue with it or a it's hook-up, but I really doubt it. When viewing this Svideo 4:3 screen the 811’s aspect control does not function at all, so I think it’s really something wrong there.

I'll mess around further with the 811 and various outputs before I decide to buy. So you don't see any odd extra formatting on your 4:3 recordings? And your happy with the colors, darkness levels and such? I figure a good $3-500 JVC or Pioneer DVD Recorder will fill my need for time shifting (and archiving) until the 942 comes out and is has a couple of month's of shake-down. I can always move the DVD Recorder to the 942 when I make that jump. I've thought of the 921 instead, but with it's replacment imminent (or not so imminent) I'll wait it out with the mostly trouble free 811.


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yeah I understand the 4:3 side bar point... It's just the SVideo output seems to be further indented both with side/bars and top and bottom bars. If I ZOOM the Svideo output (on my TV's aspect ratio control - 16:9 screen) it will ZOOM in enough to get rid of the extra side bars and top and bottom bars leaving a 4:3 picture with black side bars. It seems like there is an extra amount of formating, which I want to blame on the 811 (poor 811... gets no respect). My tv is a Pioneer 16:9 and it could be an issue with it or a it's hook-up, but I really doubt it. When viewing this Svideo 4:3 screen the 811's aspect control does not function at all, so I think it's really something wrong there.
> 
> I'll mess around further with the 811 and various outputs before I decide to buy. So you don't see any odd extra formatting on your 4:3 recordings? And your happy with the colors, darkness levels and such? I figure a good $3-500 JVC or Pioneer DVD Recorder will fill my need for time shifting (and archiving) until the 942 comes out and is has a couple of month's of shake-down. I can always move the DVD Recorder to the 942 when I make that jump. I've thought of the 921 instead, but with it's replacment imminent (or not so imminent) I'll wait it out with the mostly trouble free 811.


No I don't see any degradation in colors or picture quality...for that resolution..and of course as long as I use the SuperVHS mode. Sub 400 line of res really look like crap on my LCD RP. Yes...you are correct about the 811...if you read back a bit the first thing I complained about when I got my 811 was the aspect ratio control. My TV did a lot better job of this but when using the DVI input 4 of the TV's built in aspect ratios: 4:3, 4:3 enhanced, 4:3 zoom 1, and 4:3 zoom 2 are locked out. So I have to revert to the zoom/aspect controls on my DVD player and 811. When I run the equipment thru an external scaler I get much better aspect control and it does a much better job at filling the screen without loss of detail. Unfortunately this scaler doesn't belong to me and is slated to return to its rightful home.

You can invest in a DVD-R-HD or DVHS and record in 1080i and even full HD. But the last I heard the DVHS was like $599 and the DVD-R-HD was still over 2 grand. I don't know if you can record an up-converted feed from a scaler to a standard DVD-R?

Hope this helps,
Jason


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## c_caz

I thought the DVDR-HD is vapor-ware for at least 9 months and DVHS only works if you have firewire (aka dishwire). Also, you can't record HD component or DVI to any type of current DVDR (or DVHS) and I don't think you ever will be able to. So I would be forever consigned to using the SVideo connection if I buy a current DVDR. 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of a few professional grade (or defunct) devices nothing will capture HD component or DVI (Philips does have DVDR's that can receive non-HD component input).


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> I thought the DVDR-HD is vapor-ware for at least 9 months and DVHS only works if you have firewire (aka dishwire). Also, you can't record HD component or DVI to any type of current DVDR (or DVHS) and I don't think you ever will be able to. So I would be forever consigned to using the SVideo connection if I buy a current DVDR.
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of a few professional grade (or defunct) devices nothing will capture HD component or DVI (Philips does have DVDR's that can receive non-HD component input).


HDCP screws up capturing DVI in most cases. Most equipment I see with DVI supports at least HDCP 1.0. I do not know if that could be defeated...and I won't go any further than that because I am a paying sub and mr. stone get beat up enough for getting into illicit type conversations.

Yes DVHS uses IEEE1394 to record HD only. But JVC DVHS also supports RF, Composite, and S-Video inputs...of course not for HD. It also supports the JLIP protocol.


----------



## c_caz

Yeam I'm really not looking for anything that isn't on the up and up; really just time-shifting and archiving for my own use. I am a little picky about what I like and it's nice to be able to time-shift for later viewing and as well to archive stuff off. It doesn't have to be in HD, just be in good quality format that isn't a lot of bother to work with. I didn't realize the the DVHS does have SVideo inputs. Interesting. I also see that a new DVHS deck (out soon) has an integrated OTA tuner. That is also very interesting. Thanks again for the responses and the info!


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Yeam I'm really not looking for anything that isn't on the up and up; really just time-shifting and archiving for my own use. I am a little picky about what I like and it's nice to be able to time-shift for later viewing and as well to archive stuff off. It doesn't have to be in HD, just be in good quality format that isn't a lot of bother to work with. I didn't realize the the DVHS does have SVideo inputs. Interesting. I also see that a new DVHS deck (out soon) has an integrated OTA tuner. That is also very interesting. Thanks again for the responses and the info!


You caught the part I said S-Video in on the DVHS was SD only right? If this is the case and you don't care if the playback is SD I got my SVHS unit for well under $200. If you get SVHS-ET you can record SVHS 400 line res on a standard VHS tape. If you plan on taping a show and taking it to a friends watch out for SVHS though. Only the newer VCRs that support Quasi SVHS playback will be able to playback an SVHS recording.

Jason


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## c_caz

Sure, I undertand Svid is SD only. I'm probably going to just get something like this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...dept=3944&path=0:3944:62055:124623#long_descr and if I'm just not happy with the quality return it.


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Sure, I undertand Svid is SD only. I'm probably going to just get something like this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...dept=3944&path=0:3944:62055:124623#long_descr and if I'm just not happy with the quality return it.


Kinda loyal to Pioneer aren't ya... 

Let me know how this works out.

Jason


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## garypen

A person can do a lot worse than choose Pioneer, that's for sure.


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## dfergie

c_caz, have you thought about a Replay box?


----------



## citico

nippjas said:


> I bought an 811 this weekend, and even though I have yet to receive it I have a question. I will have an 811 and already have a Sammy DVD-HD931. I plan on using both thru my DVI connection but only have one DVI input. Have any of you used the DVI switches that are available, and if so are there any drawbacks/quality/performance issues to be aware of?
> 
> I am also testing an external scaler if any of you are interested. I have a thread for this under http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=29441
> 
> Jason


I have a DVI switcher model No. DS-21R from pacificcable.com. I have my DVD and cable box in and one DVI to TV. I can't tell any difference in the
quality of the picture. There Web Site will give you full detail on the model.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> A person can do a lot worse than choose Pioneer, that's for sure.


I know...It's an inside joke, sorry. I have a friend that used to work for Pioneer in Itasca IL. He was a Sony fan and went out of his way to make sure all of his equipment...including his D* receiver...had the Sony logo on it. I just thought it was funny...even funnier since he could have probably received employee discounts. Ah but we all have our preferences huh? 

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

citico said:


> I have a DVI switcher model No. DS-21R from pacificcable.com. I have my DVD and cable box in and one DVI to TV. I can't tell any difference in the
> quality of the picture. There Web Site will give you full detail on the model.


Great...thanks for the response. I ended up purchasing the Gefen unit. It works very good.

Jason


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## c_caz

Not absolutely sold on Pioneer, just have been treated fairly by Pioneer in the past. I've been looking at a number of makes and see the Panny's, JVCs and the Pioneers are the better reviewed. They all seem to be missing something some feature or have some issue, the Pioneer I pointed you to was simply a good deal.

I actually may wait to see how the new Philips are reviewed as they will record in DD5.1 and have non-HD component inputs. If the non-HD component inputs actually connect to the component out on the 811 it may be an alt if I'm not happy with the svid out.

I'm not all that familiar with the Replay units. I'm not real interested in anything else that wants a monthly payment. A decent DVD Recorder (especially with a Hard Drive) will serve fairly well as a DVR until either the 942 is out, I buy a 921, or I switch to DirecTV (might happen)


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Not absolutely sold on Pioneer, just have been treated fairly by Pioneer in the past.
> 
> If the non-HD component inputs actually connect to the component out on the 811 it may be an alt if I'm not happy with the svid out.


I was just kidding...Pioneer makes good stuff, just reverting back to an inside joke.

As far as SD component Video inputs. I maybe wrong...As I have been before...but if you connect the 811's Component Video outputs to a DVD-R or DVHS that only accepts SD input then you may have to change the output resolution of the 811 to 480? I don't believe the 811 automatically scales back for non-HD sources other than S-Video? Actually since I'm not at home right now that may not even work...the 480 setting for HD output on the 811 maybe 480p not 480i?...maybe I'm confused?...

Didn't JVC just put out a Progressive Scan VHS recorder/ Progressive Scan DVD-R/RW combo unit? I haven't had time to check this one out yet but I would think because it's 480p on VHS and DVD that it would have some kind of HD input? You may want to look into this as an option.

Jason


----------



## c_caz

So as a followup. Anyone commonly recording from a 811 to a DVD Recorder and have the 811 setup to think it's a VCR?


----------



## garypen

An 811 that thinks it's a VCR? I had an uncle that thought he was Napolean. Does that count?


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> An 811 that thinks it's a VCR? I had an uncle that thought he was Napolean. Does that count?


It depends Gary?


----------



## Cholly

c_caz said:


> So as a followup. Anyone commonly recording from a 811 to a DVD Recorder and have the 811 setup to think it's a VCR?


You should be able to do this. When I'm recording from my 811 to my Sanyo DVD+R recorder, I just set the 811 to the desired channel and set up my recorder for time based recording. OTOH, if you are planning on recording several shows, you could just use the timer on the 811. The problem with using the 811's record to VCR feature is that it does fire the IR blastes to control the VCR. Not a biggie. I've not tried it. The biggest problem with the 811 and timer based recording is that not all shows start on the advertised time. Yesterday, I set up to record the Ben Folds Central Park concert from HDNet, and when I reviewed it, I discovered that the program started 15 minutes later than advertised. As a result, I got 15 minutes of a show I didn't want to record and lost the end of the concert. That wouldn't have happened with my TiVo.
As an answer to your question about component video out of the 811. The component output of the 811 as I recall is digital only. You have to use the S-Video or composite output to record to the DVD recorder. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, all consumer DVD recorders require analog input.


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> So as a followup. Anyone commonly recording from a 811 to a DVD Recorder and have the 811 setup to think it's a VCR?


I was reading thru the manual and page 11 mentions the component video connections only in reference to HD output. So to satisfy curiosity I called E*. The 811's component video outputs are 480p, 720p, or 1080i only. To record in SD (480i or below) you must use the composite or S-Video outputs of the 811.

Hope the helps,
Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

Cholly said:


> As an answer to your question about component video out of the 811. The component output of the 811 as I recall is digital only. You have to use the S-Video or composite output to record to the DVD recorder. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, all consumer DVD recorders require analog input.


OK Cholly beat me to the submit button. This is a correct answer.

Just to be a bit over technical....YPbPr...Component Video...Even though it's HD...Is technically an analog input. For true uncompressed digital video DVI and HDMI are the digital inputs.

Jason


----------



## Nick

Cholly said:


> ...The component output of the 811 as I recall is digital only...


A component video signal is analog.


----------



## Cholly

nippjas said:


> OK Cholly beat me to the submit button. This is a correct answer.
> 
> Just to be a bit over technical....YPbPr...Component Video...Even though it's HD...Is technically an analog input. For true uncompressed digital video DVI and HDMI are the digital inputs.
> 
> Jason


Yeah, I jumped the gun a bit, Jason. My bad. You're right in saying that component video (yPbPr) is analog. I should remember that from my early days with color TV.  
I would suppose in theory, with a 1080i DVD recorder, you could use the component out of the 811, and come to think of it, I was dismayed when I looked around in the marketplace and couldn't find a DVD recorder with component inputs. My old age seems to make my thought process somewhat defective. :grin: 
BTW, I'm using DVI from my 811 to my Sony 32" HDTV monitor.
Last night, I did a side by side comparison of my digital OTA from my 811 to analog cable signal going to my Sony. No question about it, the digital OTA is stunning, but DARK, DARK, DARK! I'm going to have to try comparing my distant network feed on the 811 to cable to see the difference as well. 
(I know this belongs in the 811 problems thread, but I tend to ramble  )


----------



## Jason Nipp

Cholly said:


> I would suppose in theory, with a 1080i DVD recorder, you could use the component out of the 811, and come to think of it, I was dismayed when I looked around in the marketplace and couldn't find a DVD recorder with component inputs. My old age seems to make my thought process somewhat defective. :grin:
> BTW, I'm using DVI from my 811 to my Sony 32" HDTV monitor.
> Last night, I did a side by side comparison of my digital OTA from my 811 to analog cable signal going to my Sony. No question about it, the digital OTA is stunning, but DARK, DARK, DARK! I'm going to have to try comparing my distant network feed on the 811 to cable to see the difference as well.
> (I know this belongs in the 811 problems thread, but I tend to ramble  )


There are a couple 1080i HD compatable DVD-R's out there but they are very expensive.

DVI from my 811 is a lot darker than from my DVD DVI. I had ISF adjust my DVI input picture settings and now it is a lot nicer and more balanced between the dual sources on the shared input.

Jason


----------



## garypen

Cholly - Many people have noticed the 811's DVI output is darker than the Component output, myself included. OTOH, a few people say they see no difference.


----------



## MarkoC

c_caz said:


> So as a followup. Anyone commonly recording from a 811 to a DVD Recorder and have the 811 setup to think it's a VCR?


I record movies from HBO HD and SHO HD onto my DVD-R recorder often. I have to use the S-Video input on the DVD recorder. The resulting PQ is pretty good, but not as good as a commercial DVD.

I tried to set up my recorder to work with my 811 like a VCR, but for whatever reason it didn't work. I have to either record manually or set up a timer on my recorder and leave the 811 on.


----------



## Guest

I got an 811 a few weeks ago. The HD picture is fairly good via the component video input and the SD is OK via the S-video, but the darks are too dark. There is no definition between blacks and greys. The old 301 had a much better SD picture. Adjusting the brightness or contrast on my TV does not help. Should I bother calling Dish or are all of these 811's bad?


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Yes they are all that bad. In my opinion the 811 is a big pile of steaming sh*t. I got rid of mine in less than a month because of the blacks crushing on all three outputs . ( sd/dvi/component) I have the 921 now and the only problem with pq is an occasional blue line that appears on sd channels on white backgrounds . It doesn't happen all the time and a supposed software update will fix it. I think the 811 has serious hardware and chipset problems and they won't admit it . A hd receiver should provide you with the best picture quality ,not picture quality problems that are worse than a sd 301 receiver.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Yes they are all that bad. I got rid of mine in less than a month because of the blacks crushing on all three outputs . A hd receiver should provide you with the best picture quality ,not picture quality problems that are worse than a sd 301 receiver.


I tend to somewhat disagree. While I admit the 811 is very tempermental... I do not experience the crushed blacks that several say they experience. I input thru DVI...It is a bit darker...by my TV's dynamic contrast settings provide very clear blacks. My picture quality on my LCD RP is much better with the 811 than it was with the 301 I had on it previously. I even tried up-converting the 301 and it still didn't come close to the 811's picture quality...in my application.

Jason


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## Jason Nipp

Here's a new 811 issue for me. I was watching TNT-HD last night and 3 times the picture went into a slow motion like frame rate. I had to keep powering down to reset. Also my audio kept going out of sync prior to that earlier in the evening.

Has anyone else had this issue...was this latency related to any uplink or transponder issues?

Jason


----------



## Bobby94928

nippjas said:


> Here's a new 811 issue for me. I was watching TNT-HD last night and 3 times the picture went into a slow motion like frame rate. I had to keep powering down to reset. Also my audio kept going out of sync prior to that earlier in the evening.
> 
> Has anyone else had this issue...was this latency related to any uplink or transponder issues?
> 
> Jason


I've seen this before. All I had to do was channel up and then back down and it corrected it.


----------



## Jason Nipp

I'm just a bit peeved because it happened several times within like a half hour time frame. Have you had any audio issues? Depending on channel I have turn adjust my TV volume drastically, between 8 and 38. Sometimes I will be watching like NBC and a commerical will come on at full volume and blast me. This doesn't happen when I use the optical out.

Jason


----------



## garypen

I have huge differences in volume, even with the optical out. It is especially noticable between OTA and Dish channels. But, I also noticed that the Democratic Convention HD feed on PPV-HD had very low audio compared to other Dish channels.

The 811 is just a very poor piece of equipment. I have a feeling that they may never get it right, unlike their other models which they eventually get to run pretty well.


----------



## Guest

Hi guys,

This deal looks interesting:

http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=91721

Check it out!


----------



## garypen

Wow. That's an amazing fantastic extraordinary deal. It seems totally legitimate, as well, since you are obviously a real-life Dish customer, and not connected in any way to the fine, upstanding retailer you so highly recommend.

OTOH, you could just be an annoying spammer that just killed whatever credibility your business had, and will never see any business from these forum members, or from the members of any of the other forums that have been spammed in like fashion.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> Wow. That's an amazing fantastic extraordinary deal. It seems totally legitimate, as well, since you are obviously a real-life Dish customer, and not connected in any way to the fine, upstanding retailer you so highly recommend.
> 
> OTOH, you could just be an annoying spammer that just killed whatever credibility your business had, and will never see any business from these forum members, or from the members of any of the other forums that have been spammed in like fashion.


He's hit several threads with this crap already. Dude...if your going to SPAM people keep the occurances limited to one post.


----------



## chrisk

TypeSomethingIn said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> This deal looks interesting:
> 
> http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=91721
> 
> Check it out!


This guy is someone on their associates plan that anyone can join. Notice the "aid=" at the end of the url. The spammer gets money from VMC if some signs up using that link. VMC does not condone spamming by it's associates. I will report the associate ID to VMC and they will not give this associate credit for anyone that signs up with that aid.


----------



## Guest

Guys,

I'm sorry you felt it was spamming...I didn't intend to seriously...I would take it back if I could...sorry


----------



## garypen

No TV for you tonight, young man! Now go to your room.


----------



## khearrean

In regard to what I have posted many times before regarding the lousy PQ I get when running my analog cable into the 811's OTA tuner, I had the following thought/question. I know it's been posted here many times that the 811's OTA tuner is just plain lousy, but how about this...Before when I tried it out and got the horrible, grainy picture, I don't believe I remember changing my menu settings in the 811 from 1080i which is where I normally keep it set. Would it have made any difference changing it to possibly 480p when viewing cable instead of leaving it set on 1080i? I ask this first because I have my home theater set-up in a large cabinet and it's quite a pain to pull everything out to get to my interconnects if it's not going to do any good. (Right now I get a good picture because I am running my analog cable for my locals into my S VCR. I just can't integrate my local channels into the 811's guide and also must change inputs in order to switch from cable to sat). Does anyone have any thoughts on this before I try it?
Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

I disagree on the 811 OTA comment. My digital locals OTA are clear and nicer looking than the Locals E* sends me thru 121. I do not have poor OTA receiption.

Jason


----------



## garypen

He was referring to the analog OTA tuner, which does indeed look terrible.


----------



## Jason Nipp

I've mapped my OTA Fox feed which is analog, as Fox isn't available in digital in my area yet...The analog OTA feed from Fox is still more defined then the local feed E* sends me on 121.

I see a lot of 811 demons...fortunately this isn't one of them for me.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> I've mapped my OTA Fox feed which is analog, as Fox isn't available in digital in my area yet...The analog OTA feed from Fox is still more defined then the local feed E* sends me on 121.
> 
> I see a lot of 811 demons...fortunately this isn't one of them for me.
> 
> Jason


You're one of the few I've heard from who don't have a problem with the 811 OTA tuner's PQ when a strictly analog signal is being fed into it. In my case, it's TWC here which is purely analog cable. I don't know if that would be the same as using an OTA antenna (which I assume you are) where some of your channels are digital and some are analog. Anyway, any thoughts on my original question about changing my setting to something other than 1080i?

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> You're one of the few I've heard from who don't have a problem with the 811 OTA tuner's PQ when a strictly analog signal is being fed into it. In my case, it's TWC here which is purely analog cable. I don't know if that would be the same as using an OTA antenna (which I assume you are) where some of your channels are digital and some are analog. Anyway, any thoughts on my original question about changing my setting to something other than 1080i?
> 
> Ken


Yep I am using an OTA with a signal amp and also amplified distribution.

When I first set my 811 up I did a scan on all analog and digital. In the begining I thought it was cool to have like 16.1, 16.2, 16.3, 16.4...etc. I did have all my analog and digitals mapped. I didn't see any issues with any of them digital or analog...well of course the digitals are more defined and most are widescreen...but other than that I never watch my E* locals on the 811 cause my OTA feeds are nicer looking. Now I wish I could say the same about the audio levels.

Jason


----------



## FritzM

Something just occurred to me... Why not run the OTA feed into a VCR, use its tuner, and run S-VHS feed to the 811? Shouldn't going around the 811's tuner get rid of the problem?

All my local OTA channels have digital signals too, so I never use the 811's analog tuner.


----------



## khearrean

FritzM said:


> Something just occurred to me... Why not run the OTA feed into a VCR, use its tuner, and run S-VHS feed to the 811? Shouldn't going around the 811's tuner get rid of the problem?
> 
> All my local OTA channels have digital signals too, so I never use the 811's analog tuner.


I may be mis-understanding your post, but that's what I indicated earlier I was doing. I bypass the 811's tuner by going into my S VCR & using it's tuner. (I let my 811's remote learn my VCR commands so I can change channels with the 811 remote). Unfortunately by doing so, I sacrifice the convenience of being able to seamlessly integrate my locals into the sat receiver like I used to do when I had a model 5000, therefore they don't show up on the guide. Did I understand your post correctly?

Ken


----------



## jmbrooks

I just got my 811 connected last night (no OTA) and am using the DVI out to my Tosh HDTV. The picture is awsome and it is just as bright and contrasted as my 501 or 721 fed by s-video. I have to note that I think the non-HD channels are worse than from the two SD receivers but since I'm only using it for the HD channels I can live with it. Might play around with the ratio and resolution settings to see if that makes a difference.

One other thing, my TV has Normal, Theater Wide 1, 2, 3, and Full aspect ratio control. The Full seems to be greyed out (unavailable) with the 1080i setting over DVI. The 16x9 image of say, Discovery HD fills the screen when set to Normal aspect. I thought it was supposed to be set to Full for all 16x9 material like my DVD player is set to.


----------



## garypen

Most HDTV's disable their format controls when receiving a 1080i signal via their DVI inputs.
The 811 has an internal format control via the * key on your remote.


----------



## Jason Nipp

jmbrooks said:


> One other thing, my TV has Normal, Theater Wide 1, 2, 3, and Full aspect ratio control. The Full seems to be greyed out (unavailable) with the 1080i setting over DVI. The 16x9 image of say, Discovery HD fills the screen when set to Normal aspect. I thought it was supposed to be set to Full for all 16x9 material like my DVD player is set to.


On DVI at 720p and 1080i my Hitachi blocks all of the 4:3 aspect controls. The 2 16:9 controls still work fine. The 4:3 enhanced ratio was my favorite...really did a nice job stretching a 4:3 to 16:9. I think you'll find that the 480p 811 res allows you to regain full aspect control on your TV. I just leave my TV at 16:9 standard and the 811 at 1080i and call it a day.

This was my first complaint about the 811...it's crappy aspect ratio control.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> any thoughts on my original question about changing my setting to something other than 1080i?


I'm not sure Ken...I keep mine set to 1080i.

I did play a bit with 480p and 720p the first day I hooked up the 811...The picture just looked better at 1080i...so I left it there. There were downsides to doing this however...at 1080i I lost 4 of my TV's built in aspect ratios and when watching a SD 4:3 broadcast OTA my picture letterboxes. At 480p I regain my other 4 aspect ratios, and at 480 and 720 I don't see any continuous letterboxing. I'm sure the results vary from set to set...I say try it for a day...the worst that could happen is you have to go back into the menu and change it back to 1080i.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> I'm not sure Ken...I keep mine set to 1080i.
> 
> I did play a bit with 480p and 720p the first day I hooked up the 811...The picture just looked better at 1080i...so I left it there. There were downsides to doing this however...at 1080i I lost 4 of my TV's built in aspect ratios and when watching a SD 4:3 broadcast OTA my picture letterboxes. At 480p I regain my other 4 aspect ratios, and at 480 and 720 I don't see any continuous letterboxing. I'm sure the results vary from set to set...I say try it for a day...the worst that could happen is you have to go back into the menu and change it back to 1080i.
> 
> Jason


Thanks, Jason:
The only problem is, as I mentioned in my original post, is that I'm doing this to test/retry the 811's OTA tuner with my analog cable and all my HT equipment is set up in my entertainment center, so I have to tear everything down to get to the interconnects to hook the incoming cable into the back of the 811's OTA tuner. (Right now I'm going into my VCR to get a better picture). Oh well, I guess I'll just bite the bullet and try it.
Thanks again.

Ken


----------



## Cholly

FWIW, I talked to the exec office yesterday, and was told that the software update for the 811 due to come out in August is expected to cover the dreaded 49 problem and dark picture issues. One can only hope!


----------



## khearrean

Cholly said:


> FWIW, I talked to the exec office yesterday, and was told that the software update for the 811 due to come out in August is expected to cover the dreaded 49 problem and dark picture issues. One can only hope!


If I can ask, I've seen hundreds of posts talking about the "dreaded 49 issue". I must not have that problem with my 811; can someone tell me exactly what that is? Also, I've never noticed any dark video problems with mine using a DVI hook-up...I guess I must be one of the lucky ones, since the only problem I've had is with the OTA tuner.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> If I can ask, I've seen hundreds of posts talking about the "dreaded 49 issue". I must not have that problem with my 811; can someone tell me exactly what that is? Also, I've never noticed any dark video problems with mine using a DVI hook-up...I guess I must be one of the lucky ones, since the only problem I've had is with the OTA tuner.
> 
> Ken


The dreaded 49 issue is an OTA issue where the digital OTA won't pass 49%. I believe 50% is the lowest signal you can have to lock in a OTA digital local. Try Componet video then switch to DVI. DVI tends to be a bit darker...I had my TV ISF'd to help compensate between the two DVI sources I use.

The release that is now in test and about to go phase 1 has a bunch of OTA fixes in it and rumor has it they found away to brighten up the DVI output a bit. I don't actually want them to change my DVI because I recently spent $$$ to have ISF calibrate my picture settings.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> The dreaded 49 issue is an OTA issue where the digital OTA won't pass 49%. I believe 50% is the lowest signal you can have to lock in a OTA digital local. Try Componet video then switch to DVI. DVI tends to be a bit darker...I had my TV ISF'd to help compensate between the two DVI sources I use.
> 
> Jason


Let me ask this just so I understand. Why, if you have DVI capability, would you use any other source such as component or S video? Unless you are referring to switching over and watching DVD. If that's the case, again I guess I'm lucky because when I watch sat (via DVI) and then switch over to DVD (via component video), I just don't see a noticeable difference in the video except for an improvement, but not with darkness or brightness.. I did do some calibration using "Digital Video Essentials", but I'm certainly no pro with calibration.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> Let me ask this just so I understand. Why, if you have DVI capability, would you use any other source such as component or S video? Unless you are referring to switching over and watching DVD. If that's the case, again I guess I'm lucky because when I watch sat (via DVI) and then switch over to DVD (via component video), I just don't see a noticeable difference in the video except for an improvement, but not with darkness or brightness.. I did do some calibration using "Digital Video Essentials", but I'm certainly no pro with calibration.
> 
> Ken


 I was just giving you way to demonstrate the darker picture issue. I currently do not use the component video inputs of my main TV. I use DVI on my 811 and on my Samsung DVD player to my LCD RP. Before I had ISF calibrate my settings My DVD player would be much brighter than my 811 thus I had to adjust the brightness and contrast back and forth just switching from DVD to 811. There is no way to have independent setting in my case since the Sammy and 811 share my Hitachi's only DVI input thru a Gefen 2 to 1 switch.

Jason


----------



## Guest

Did not have time to read the many pages, don't know if this is common. I had the same issue a while ago but seemed fixed for a while now it is back.

Every time I use guide, 811 goes to download but would not finish. The only way to fix it is a hard reset (unplug then replug 811) or go through a switch test. Is this just my 811? I am about to throw it out of the window.


----------



## khearrean

jacmyoung said:


> Did not have time to read the many pages, don't know if this is common. I had the same issue a while ago but seemed fixed for a while now it is back.
> 
> Every time I use guide, 811 goes to download but would not finish. The only way to fix it is a hard reset (unplug then replug 811) or go through a switch test. Is this just my 811? I am about to throw it out of the window.


I had the same problem when I first got my 811 (about 2 months ago), when I did, I simply powered the unit off/on (not with the remote) and it would reset itself. However for the past month or so, it's never done it again. I will say there are a few times when it's downloading and just when it gets almost complete it seems to hang, but about 6-7 seconds later it finishes.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

My 811 hangs randomly...not very often anymore however. My 301's hang up more then the 811 since the 226 update. As Ken says use the front panel power button....If your locked you can hold the power button for a few seconds and it will do a hard reset.


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> My 811 hangs randomly....


Perhaps you should switch from boxers to briefs.


----------



## Jason Nipp

I was wondering why it felt so drafty...


----------



## khearrean

I'd kill to have such a problem... :lol:


----------



## Bobby94928

You get to be my age, khearrean, you don't care. :lol:


----------



## DanB474

OK, back to business here. I've been wondering why I receive no EPG info for my digital locals. Is it because my locals aren't broadcasting the info, or does the 811 just not insert the EPG info where it's supposed to go?


----------



## SimpleSimon

E* receivers aren't yet capable of using local EPG data (if any), and they are too stupid (both E* and the boxes) to let you use the data they have for the satellite-carried locals. That data would be far from perfect fr many reasons, but for most of the people most of the time it would be just fine.


----------



## khearrean

SimpleSimon said:


> E* receivers aren't yet capable of using local EPG data (if any), and they are too stupid (both E* and the boxes) to let you use the data they have for the satellite-carried locals. That data would be far from perfect fr many reasons, but for most of the people most of the time it would be just fine.


If I'm understanding your response, I disagree with the part about E* receivers not capable of using local EPG data...". Before I upgraded to my 811, I was using a model 5000 and using cable to get the locals. The program guide was able to pick up & display the info for those locals just fine. (Actually, when viewing the EPG, I couldn't tell the sat programming from cable). I can't say about the 811, as I'm not using it's OTA tuner to currently get my locals.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

It's this just an issue of the OTA Digital local station not transmitting the psip info in the data stream?


----------



## SimpleSimon

I may have overstated (but don't think so).

To restate: I have never seen or heard of an E* receiver that was able to use PSIP EPG data. Maybe some receivers have some integration between the satellite EPG and non-satellite local channels.


----------



## garypen

They should just give D* a call, and ask how they manage to do it for all of their OTA digital capable receivers.


----------



## SimpleSimon

garypen said:


> They should just give D* a call, and ask how they manage to do it for all of their OTA digital capable receivers.


Ain't that the truth!


----------



## Cyclone

This is seriously, the biggest black eye that Dish has went it comes to HD. The funny part is that most of the OTA guide data is likely already present for the LIL channel.  

I know that almost all of the OTA channels, that I watch, I could put in the call letters "WTTG" CH 8073 for instance, into its OTA digital channel, and just re-use existing guide data. They never deviate, Dish already has the data.


----------



## rocatman

SimpleSimon said:


> I may have overstated (but don't think so).
> 
> To restate: I have never seen or heard of an E* receiver that was able to use PSIP EPG data. Maybe some receivers have some integration between the satellite EPG and non-satellite local channels.


How really useful is the PSIP data. Does it provide just info on the current program or does it provide data so many hours into the future? If it's the former, to me this is of marginal value. I've posted this question a couple of times and no one seems to have the answer. The LIL program info is what I want but obviously this would only be useful in markets that Dish provides locals. I can't believe it would be that difficult to do EPG mapping and one should not have to subscribe to their locals through Dish to get this info because the HD OTA tuner was part of the marketing of the 811.


----------



## Cholly

Wellll -- Okay, the lack of EPG data for OTA locals is a pain in the butt, whether they be digital or analog. And it sure would be nice to have PSIP data for them. That being said, there IS an alternative, which I use frequently. That's the program info on www.titantv.com 
With TitanTV, you can set up for the channels you watch, select HD content only, genre, etc. Lots better than nothing, and certainly better than newspaper listings or TVGuide.


----------



## Ron Barry

Cholly said:


> Wellll -- Okay, the lack of EPG data for OTA locals is a pain in the butt, whether they be digital or analog. And it sure would be nice to have PSIP data for them. That being said, there IS an alternative, which I use frequently. That's the program info on www.titantv.com
> With TitanTV, you can set up for the channels you watch, select HD content only, genre, etc. Lots better than nothing, and certainly better than newspaper listings or TVGuide.


Or if you have locals there is a setting in the OTA setup that will place the locals right by your OTA channels in your EPG so you can see what is on. This is what I consider a work around.


----------



## DanB474

WeeJavaDude said:


> Or if you have locals there is a setting in the OTA setup that will place the locals right by your OTA channels in your EPG so you can see what is on. This is what I consider a work around.


The only problem with that, is that I have PBS OTA, and it contains four channels. Often all four, or at least 3 will contain programs not on my local PBS affiliate at the time. The PBS-HD channel never has on what my local PBS is broadcasting - I would love to see what's on the HD feed at any given time. Also, my CBS-HD channel OTA often shows programs at different times from my local CBS affiliate.


----------



## Jason Nipp

WeeJavaDude said:


> Or if you have locals there is a setting in the OTA setup that will place the locals right by your OTA channels in your EPG so you can see what is on. This is what I consider a work around.


WJD...Could you please explain to me how to do this. I tried the "Display Setting" under "(6-1-5) Local Channel Setup" to display DishNetwork locals on channels (2-99)...This didn't work for me. I have digital OTA 13(13.1 and 13.2), 16(16.1), 17(17.1), 23(23.1) and OTA analog 39 mapped to the EPG guide. Is there a work around to bring all my locals...OTA or E* side by side?

Jason


----------



## Guest

nippjas said:


> WJD...Could you please explain to me how to do this. I tried the "Display Setting" under "(6-1-5) Local Channel Setup" to display DishNetwork locals on channels (2-99)...This didn't work for me. I have digital OTA 13(13.1 and 13.2), 16(16.1), 17(17.1), 23(23.1) and OTA analog 39 mapped to the EPG guide. Is there a work around to bring all my locals...OTA or E* side by side?
> 
> Jason


Do you subscribe? That is the first prerequisite.


----------



## Jason Nipp

gpflepsen said:


> Do you subscribe? That is the first prerequisite.


Yes...of Course...I get Rockford IL locals beamed to me over 121 SuperDish. But I only watch the E* locals on my 301's because the OTA digitals I map on my 811 are much cleaner transmissions...The E* Locals are in the EPG of the 811 on 7542-7545, however they do show up on 13,17,23, and 39 on my 301's. I know about the setting on the 811 in Local Channel Setup that allows you to toggle the Dish locals to (2-99) but this feature doesn't appear to function...on my 811 anyhow? If anyone else got this feature to work so you could bring mapped OTAs side by side E* Locals I'd love to hear the work around for this?

Jason


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> I tried the "Display Setting" under "(6-1-5) Local Channel Setup" to display DishNetwork locals on channels (2-99)...This didn't work for me.
> Jason


That should have done it. Maybe it's different with Superdish?

BTW, do all the rock groups that play Rockford still stay at the Clock Tower?


----------



## n0qcu

I don't think that option works if you have any OTA analog stations added. Try removing the analog and let us know if that works.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> That should have done it. Maybe it's different with Superdish?
> 
> BTW, do all the rock groups that play Rockford still stay at the Clock Tower?


I don't know...I think Sammy Haggar may have set it on fire...

Just kidding...I don't know, but seeing that there are several hotels down by the Coronado Theater and RiverFront bandstands I can't see them going out of their way to go to the far East side just for a hotel.

My thoughts are that their Million dollar coach buses supply more comfort than that place that leaves it's light on for ya? 

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

n0qcu said:


> I don't think that option works if you have any OTA analog stations added. Try removing the analog and let us know if that works.


OK. I'll try this tonight and let you know if it works.


----------



## garypen

The Clock Tower obviously isn't the most glamorous hotel in Rockford. But, it is steeped in R&R history, like the Edgewater in Seattle, or the Hyatt (Riot) on Sunset.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> The Clock Tower obviously isn't the most glamorous hotel in Rockford. But, it is steeped in R&R history, like the Edgewater in Seattle, or the Hyatt (Riot) on Sunset.


Don't get me wrong...It's a nice hotel...And contrary to most beliefs on west vs. east sides...the east side of Rockford is actually the more affluent side...I just hold the opinion that if I had a disposable income like most of these guys...I'd be looking for a suite with a private pool and private tended bar or something...

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

n0qcu said:


> I don't think that option works if you have any OTA analog stations added. Try removing the analog and let us know if that works.





nippjas said:


> OK. I'll try this tonight and let you know if it works.


It worked only after I removed the Analog OTA "FOX" from my Local Channel Setup and Only after completely clearing my favorites list and redoing my favorites list from scratch...But it worked...

Thanks for the help,

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

nippjas said:


> It worked only after I removed the Analog OTA "FOX" from my Local Channel Setup and Only after completely clearing my favorites list and redoing my favorites list from scratch...But it worked...
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> 
> Jason


Well guys it worked but not...When I got home last night my dish locals moved back to the 7542-7545 range, even with the option checked. Now under all sub it showed dish locals under 2-99 along with my mapped OTA digitals but it also had them listed again under the 7542-7545 numbers. Completely gone from my favorites list. I cleared my favorites list again and put the channels back to 2-99 area...We'll see if it stays there this time. Also this morning my EPG broke up almost into an assembly like language.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

nippjas said:


> Well guys it worked but not...When I got home last night my dish locals moved back to the 7542-7545 range, even with the option checked. Now under all sub it showed dish locals under 2-99 along with my mapped OTA digitals but it also had them listed again under the 7542-7545 numbers. Completely gone from my favorites list. I cleared my favorites list again and put the channels back to 2-99 area...We'll see if it stays there this time. Also this morning my EPG broke up almost into an assembly like language.Jason


Lost the side by side Dish and OTA locals again.

Attached is a picture of the EPG gone goofy...This is what I was referring to earlier...anyone see this before?

Jason


----------



## BFG

Yeah I'm getting all the old problems I never got with this new update. I've never had my locals loose their re-map and never had the acquring sat bug when hitting guide on an OTA now there here and driving me crazy


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> Lost the side by side Dish and OTA locals again.
> 
> Attached is a picture of the EPG gone goofy...This is what I was referring to earlier...anyone see this before?
> 
> Jason


It's happened to me. But, only immediately following a guide download AND hitting the scroll down button.


----------



## Jason Nipp

BFG said:


> Yeah I'm getting all the old problems I never got with this new update. I've never had my locals loose their re-map and never had the acquring sat bug when hitting guide on an OTA now there here and driving me crazy


The corrupt EPG was happening to me prior to the 269 update.

Jason


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> The corrupt EPG was happening to me prior to the 269 update.
> 
> Jason


As it was happening to me.


----------



## dingle

I recently have had a problem with my 811 remote. it only works on the TV. The receiver does not respond to it all. At the same time this occurred my 522 remote started to work for both the 811 and the 522. I can only use my 811 with 522 remote. Its not a big problem except when turn the power on and off or when i'm using PIP, both will change channels at the same time. Has anyone had the same problem? If so how can I fix it.


----------



## n0qcu

Goto to the sys info screen on your 811 and press the record button on the 811 remote. You description sounds like the receiver address got changed somehow, this should change itr back.


----------



## Jason Nipp

n0qcu said:


> Goto to the sys info screen on your 811 and press the record button on the 811 remote. You description sounds like the receiver address got changed somehow, this should change itr back.


Agree...sounds like your remotes address got changed. I'd change both receivers and remotes addresses at least 3 apart.


----------



## Guest

For those 811 users who have poor SD picture quality, did the 269 update seem to fix the "dark" problems? I seem to see an improvement.


----------



## Soccernut

Gwim20 said:


> For those 811 users who have poor SD picture quality, did the 269 update seem to fix the "dark" problems? I seem to see an improvement.


There's some improvement on SD with s-video but my 311 still has more life like color, better black and contrast. I think I'm beginning to see the light, like some have suggested that this is strictly an HD receiver.


----------



## Nick

I retransmit the 811's composite video-out to other displays around the house & see no effect from the "dark" issue on those sets. Never have noticed a problem since I've had the receiver..


----------



## Guest

I just bought an 811 and the Dolby Digital does not work but the pcm does on Dolby digital channels.(high-def channels) I was just wondering if anybody has had this problem? I know the optical on my pioneer reciever works in both ports because I've tried them both using my dvd player.


----------



## garypen

A lot of people have reported this. Apparently, the 811's DD output is incompatible with many DD audio receivers.

Do a search for "811 dolby digital" on this forum. There's aslo a whole thread about it on the 811 forum at www.satelliteguys.us


----------



## khearrean

Well, I knew better than to get my hopes up with all the hype lately about 2.69 improving everything including the PQ of analog cable hooked up to the 811's OTA tuner. I tried it again today after receiving 2.69 and well, you guessed it....crappy PQ just like before. 'Garypen' has said all along that the 811's tuner was crap and now, I Believe Him!!! So I re-hooked my analog cable back thru my VCR's tuner and....that's where it will stay at least until Dish gets the locals in our market. I was considering a good OTA antenna, but since we only have one network here broadcasting HD @ 100% power with the other @ 50% and the 3rd not at all, that too would probably not be any better. (Also since I'm approx. 16-25 miles from all the towers).
It was so nice with my 5000 model being able to seamlessly integrate my locals into it so I didn't have to change inputs back & forth from VCR to Sat.
Oh well.....Drat!!!  

Ken


----------



## khearrean

I just had a thought about something. I read on another forum where someone else is using the 811's OTA tuner to view his analog locals and he says he gets a great picture. So there is one thing I'm wondering...I am using DVI cable from my Hitachi RPTV (which is on 'Input 1') to the 811. When I ran my 75 ohm coaxial cable (analog cable) to the 811's OTA tuner (seamlessly integrating my locals into the 811), I was still trying to view those locals off of that same 'Input 1" which, as I said before, is using the DVI cable. Would the fact that I'm using DVI cable in any way distort or affect that analog signal causing it to be grainy?

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> I just had a thought about something. I read on another forum where someone else is using the 811's OTA tuner to view his analog locals and he says he gets a great picture. So there is one thing I'm wondering...I am using DVI cable from my Hitachi RPTV (which is on 'Input 1') to the 811. When I ran my 75 ohm coaxial cable (analog cable) to the 811's OTA tuner (seamlessly integrating my locals into the 811), I was still trying to view those locals off of that same 'Input 1" which, as I said before, is using the DVI cable. Would the fact that I'm using DVI cable in any way distort or affect that analog signal causing it to be grainy?
> 
> Ken


Ken, Not sure what your saying about RF (Coax) connections on the 811. The 811 does not have a RF (Coax) output. I use DVI and had Analog and Digitals mapped thru the 811. My OTA Digital and Analog OTA's beat the heck out of what E* sends me thru 121. My picture is better using DVI than the 301 prior to my 811 provided.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> Ken, Not sure what your saying about RF (Coax) connections on the 811. The 811 does not have a RF (Coax) output. I use DVI and had Analog and Digitals mapped thru the 811. My OTA Digital and Analog OTA's beat the heck out of what E* sends me thru 121. My picture is better using DVI than the 301 prior to my 811 provided.
> 
> Jason


Hmmm....maybe I'm not explaining it clearly. (I guess I shouldn't have said RF). What I'm trying to say is: The "8VSB TV antenna/cable-in" on the 811 is a coaxial-type and receives programming signals from either local off-air broadcasts or cable (in my case, cable). This is the OTA tuner I am referring to. I hook my incoming analog cable into this coaxial input. 
I guess I just don't understand why some folks get a good analog signal thru this tuner and others such as myself do not.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> I guess I just don't understand why some folks get a good analog signal thru this tuner and others such as myself do not.


I don't know...I use premium OTA equipment with a gain amp and distribution amp. Maybe the amps contribute to this...maybe they don't? Maybe some of the 811's were manufactured using an alternate supplier for inductors, chokes, or ferrite beads...Being a EE in an electronics manufacturing company I have noticed that occasionally we have to substitute RF components as our primary supplier may be out of stock or maybe we used up our allocation of the part...I have noticed an impact on EMI and RFI noise immunity on certain components, some suppress better than the others...I don't know either way I just speculating right now with remote possibilities.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> I don't know...I use premium OTA equipment with a gain amp and distribution amp. Maybe the amps contribute to this...maybe they don't?
> Jason


Since you mention it, recently one of the D* advance techs suggested I use a 10 db amplifier with a dc block (with the dc block installed before going into the 811's tuner). Would this be something you would agree might help my problem?

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> Since you mention it, recently one of the D* advance techs suggested I use a 10 db amplifier with a dc block (with the dc block installed before going into the 811's tuner). Would this be something you would agree might help my problem?


I am using a Winegard 30db amp. I would tend to agree... Let me try something for you...Before you go out and spend money...When I get home tonight I'll pull the AC power from my amps to see what happens to my OTA analog Fox...

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> I am using a Winegard 30db amp. I would tend to agree... Let me try something for you...Before you go out and spend money...When I get home tonight I'll pull the AC power from my amps to see what happens to my OTA analog Fox...
> 
> Jason


Great....Thanks!!

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> Great....Thanks!!


OK...Here's my results.

Unplugging my distribution amp had little effect, but when I pulled the plug on the signal amp Fox started to ghost about 5 minutes later or so and with very light snow.

I'd say that the delay between pulling the plug and effects on receiption was a result of the signal amp's capactive drop power supply discharging.

Hope this is helpful to you.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> OK...Here's my results.
> 
> Unplugging my distribution amp had little effect, but when I pulled the plug on the signal amp Fox started to ghost about 5 minutes later or so and with very light snow.
> 
> I'd say that the delay between pulling the plug and effects on receiption was a result of the signal amp's capactive drop power supply discharging.
> 
> Hope this is helpful to you.
> 
> Jason


Thanks for the info, Jason..

Ken


----------



## Cholly

nippjas said:


> Here's a new 811 issue for me. I was watching TNT-HD last night and 3 times the picture went into a slow motion like frame rate. I had to keep powering down to reset. Also my audio kept going out of sync prior to that earlier in the evening.
> 
> Has anyone else had this issue...was this latency related to any uplink or transponder issues?
> 
> Jason


I know this is an old issue, but I've noticed it myself several times lately. I haven't connected it to any specific channel or switching between OTA and satellite. As Jason stated, each time it happened, a power off/on cycle of the receiver solved the problem.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Cholly said:


> I know this is an old issue, but I've noticed it myself several times lately. I haven't connected it to any specific channel or switching between OTA and satellite. As Jason stated, each time it happened, a power off/on cycle of the receiver solved the problem.


On a second note...My 811 still locks up every now and then...But now instead of having to get my fat a$$ off the sofa, walk over 15 feet to the receiver, open the cabinet door, and hold down the power button to soft boot... it does it automatically...just out of nowhere it'll reboot...hehe...guess that statue of Jesus holding the roofing hammer on the shelf above my 811 helps cut down on the dreadful exercise I'd have to experience getting off the darn sofa....divine intervention rocks... Demons out!.............

!Devil_lol :jumpingja 

Jason


----------



## Jeraden

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but whenever the overlay header bar is on the screen, pixelation occurs in the picture. For example, if I keep hitting cancel over and over, it will pop up the overlay, then remove it, etc. While doing this, I get pixellation all over the screen. Its not really a fatal problem, but kind of annoying. Typing in a channel number or doing a recall between channels also brings up the overlay which results in the pixellation.

Anyone else see this?


----------



## Guest

Jeraden said:


> Anyone else see this?


I've seen it from day 1.


----------



## A_Pac

Jeraden said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but whenever the overlay header bar is on the screen, pixelation occurs in the picture. For example, if I keep hitting cancel over and over, it will pop up the overlay, then remove it, etc. While doing this, I get pixellation all over the screen. Its not really a fatal problem, but kind of annoying. Typing in a channel number or doing a recall between channels also brings up the overlay which results in the pixellation.
> 
> Anyone else see this?


 i got it too and i just got a new 811


----------



## spiff72

...I don't use the guide? I currently have a TiVo, and use the guide that is part of it. I am getting the 811 (ordered last week Friday and still waiting for them to ship it - more on that later) so I can get HD package.

I don't really need the built in OTA tuner, but might hook it up anyway, since I have an integrated tuner in my new TV (Mitsubishi WD-62525 DLP). It lacks a signal strength meter though, so I might want to try the 811 tuner to see what kind of signal stregths I am getting. I also (by dumb luck) happened to find out that I get ABC and NBC digital channels on my cable system. (I only pay about $15 for BASIC cable from Charter). I suspect that this is because when I subscribed that the installer didn't have the necessary filters. I doubt that will last much longer, but I digress.....

If I don't use the 811 OTA tuner and rarely use the guide on the 811, and I hook up the component outputs to my TV for HD content, and Svideo (through the TiVO) for SD content, would I be less likely to get some of the problems reported in this thread? Also can I watch the SD content through the component outputs?

Finally, I am tempted to just forget it all and cancel the Dish 811 order altogether since I am extremely frustrated with the E* customer service department. The day before I went picked up my TV I called to see when I could get the 811 as a replacement receiver (as the $5 lease offer). I was told that it would be at least a month (probably more). I then tried again after I got the TV (3 days later), and I was told that they were in stock and I would get it in 7-10 business days. I told them the answer I got earlier and was assured that they had them in stock. This was Friday. Called again the following Wednesday to see what the status was and to argue about the fact that they told me I would have to return my current receiver to avoid a $50 install fee (even though I was doing it myself). They straightened this out, and told me that it shipped already. Yaaay! Called back Thursday to see about a tracking number, and surprise surprise they have NOT shipped it yet, and cant tell me when it will ship (backordered).  (*#%!#^%*!&!!!!! I was seriously mad about this. I told someone else I work with to call and tell them he was interested in the same package, but he said he wanted it installed. He was told that he could have it installed by Monday. I called Dish back tonite and told them I was tired of getting different answers every time I call. Now I am told that they THINK it will be here within the 7-10 days they originally quoted. I find this hard to beleive, since I am sure they will send it ground. This situation is wearing me thin, and I am near the point of telling E* where they can put their dish. I have been a customer for over 5 years, and I feel like I am getting the runaround.

That was more long-winded that I though, but it gives me pleasure to vent here... Has anyone else had trouble like this recently getting an 811?

Thanks,
Spiff


----------



## Guest

I had my 811 installed about two months ago. I had to assist the installer quite a bit. I did most of the work. He didn't even know what the digital optical jack was used for. He was going to just hook up the RCA audio cable only. 

I purchased a UHF antenna from Dish to save me the hassle of buying and installing my own. They quoted me $49.00 for the UHF antenna, installed.
The tech acted as if he knew nothing of the antenna install. He called the home office and they said it WAS on the work order. He told them it wasn't.
I leaned over and showed him on the work order exactly where it was. He was very surprised to see this. Of course he overlooked this and didn't even have one in his truck. He said that another tech would bring an antenna by later and install it. 

Hours when by and I finally called his local office and they told me that I needed an HD antenna and all they had was UHF models. I told them that there was no difference. They seem to think otherwise. I called the main Dish tech line and they even told me that I needed a special HD antenna and that they don't provide these, just a UHF model.

I finally went to Radio Shack and bought and installed a U-75R UHF antenna myself and it works perfectly. All of my locals come in at 85 % or better. I can't believe how clueless these phone operators are about technical issues.


----------



## lesmoss

spiff72I also (by dumb luck) happened to find out that I get ABC and NBC digital channels on my cable system. (I only pay about $15 for BASIC cable from Charter). I suspect that this is because when I subscribed that the installer didn't have the necessary filters. I doubt that will last much longer said:


> Actually the broadcast nets are likely to remain in the clear. They are on most digital cable systems.
> 
> Why not just subscribe to The Charter digital/HD package. They have most of the same HD channels that Dish has. Thats what I am going to do when my Dish one year commitment is up.


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## garypen

spiff72 said:


> ...I am near the point of telling E* where they can put their dish.


Sure. Why not? You don't have any financial commitment after 5 years. And, as a rational adult, I'll bet you don't have any emotional attachment either. Make sure to let them know WHY you are cancelling. Drop a note to [email protected] too, and make them aware of your ridiculous experinces with their Customer Service dept.


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## Jason Nipp

spiff72 said:


> I don't really need the built in OTA tuner, but might hook it up anyway, since I have an integrated tuner in my new TV (Mitsubishi WD-62525 DLP). It lacks a signal strength meter though, so I might want to try the 811 tuner to see what kind of signal stregths I am getting. I also (by dumb luck) happened to find out that I get ABC and NBC digital channels on my cable system. (I only pay about $15 for BASIC cable from Charter). I suspect that this is because when I subscribed that the installer didn't have the necessary filters. I doubt that will last much longer, but I digress.....


No you don't need the OTA receiver...But's it's real nice to have your OTA's mapped into the EPG instead of having to toggle inputs all the time...As far as cable...I haven't seen a digital cable system that still uses stackable filters...


spiff72 said:


> If I don't use the 811 OTA tuner and rarely use the guide on the 811...would I be less likely to get some of the problems reported in this thread?


 Don't count on it...OTA is only one of the issues surrounding the 811's software...Got to say it is getting better as new releases come...but I have an inkling that the most troublesome issues I have are hardware related.


spiff72 said:


> Also can I watch the SD content through the component outputs?


 Sure you can watch 480p, 720p, or 1080i SD content thru component or DVI...I have made the mistake of thinking in these terms...Don't think of it in terms of HD or SD...think of the differences in the outputs as in terms of output resolution.


spiff72 said:


> Finally, I am tempted to just forget it all and cancel the Dish 811 order altogether since I am extremely frustrated with the E* customer service department.


You could do that...But since we all have been frustrated with any companies CSR at one time or another isn't kind of rash to rant in this manner....I know I've done it myself...but I got flamed for doing it and telling the people of this forum your pi$$ed and going to cancel...well yes I understand the venting but it's a sure flamebait.


spiff72 said:


> Has anyone else had trouble like this recently getting an 811?


 Since the Dishing It Up promo started 811 supply obviously was impacted...this promo took off faster than anyone expected...you haven't experienced a backordered product during a sale before?

Jason


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## spiff72

nippjas said:


> Since the Dishing It Up promo started 811 supply obviously was impacted...this promo took off faster than anyone expected...you haven't experienced a backordered product during a sale before?


Thanks for the feedback so far, but it isn't the fact that it is backordered that upsets me. It is the fact that it is "in stock" right up to the point that you complete the placement of your order (I specifically told them I was told a few days earlier that it would be more than a month, and I was STILL assured that it was in stock). Once the order is placed, however, all of that inventory magically disappears. I am tempted to call back and tell them to install it so I can get it sooner...

I asked where they ship the product from as well, and they had no idea (I wanted to get an idea how far it would have to travel once it was shipped)...

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the various parts of E*...


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## spiff72

...Jason was who that quote should have been attributed to...


----------



## Jason Nipp

spiff72 said:


> Thanks for the feedback so far, but it isn't the fact that it is backordered that upsets me. It is the fact that it is "in stock" right up to the point that you complete the placement of your order (I specifically told them I was told a few days earlier that it would be more than a month, and I was STILL assured that it was in stock). Once the order is placed, however, all of that inventory magically disappears. I am tempted to call back and tell them to install it so I can get it sooner...
> 
> I asked where they ship the product from as well, and they had no idea (I wanted to get an idea how far it would have to travel once it was shipped)...
> 
> Seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the various parts of E*...


I have seen this stock thingy your talking about...The problem is, for a while, E* put a stop to direct shipping the 811. Which means most likely they don't know the true inventory until they call the contracted installer to see what he has on his shelf. If they are direct shipping again you could ask for an express ship...usually around 3 days or so, extra $24.99. If they aren't direct shipping it then it's up to the local contractors and what they have on hand. Ask for it to be installed....it is possible that you could get this in a couple days. I ordered on a Wednesday...a holiday to boot...I had the guy show up with the 811 on that same Saturday...of course results will vary.

Jason


----------



## Bogwon

Just got the 811. I live in Fairview, OR., 15 miles east of Portland. I installed a CM 3010 antenna to my dish mast and I'm getting 7 HD channels. No problems.


----------



## Guest

Two weeks ago, I purchased a new HDTV (Sony KV-34HS510 direct-view) system and switched from D* to E* to take advantage of their offer of a free 811. After the installer hooked me up with the supplied component cables, the system looked great: crystal clear picture, vivid colors.

Unfortunately, I could not leave well enough alone. After reading various posts on this and other boards, I decided to switch to a DV-I connection. I bought a Monster cable, hooked it up and was disappointed to find that, although the resulting picture was slightly sharper, it also suffered from a faint flickering (alternating bands of bright and dim moving diagonally across the screen).

Disappointed in the result, I unhooked the DV-I, exchanged it for a set of high-end component cables and hooked those up. The resulting picture appeared quite grainy, particularly in the background when the camera panned - a sort of fine pixelation. I decided to switch back to the original stock component cables, but the problem remained.

Here's where it gets real wierd. I called E* and was told it was probably a fault in the 811 unit. They sent me a new (rebuilt) one, but the problem was still there. They spent an hour having me try different dish settings and checking signal strength (all of which was fine). Still there.

This weekend, they sent out a field tech who replaced the connectors on the TV side of the satellite cable. It appeared to help a little bit, but the picture was still nowhere near as sharp as it originally had been. The tech said he was stumped and left acknowledging he could not fix the problem. Now they are sending me yet another 811 unit.

Has anybody else experienced this sort of problem? Does anybody have any idea what could be causing it? And, most importantly, does anybody have a solution?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Perplexed said:


> This weekend, they sent out a field tech who replaced the connectors on the TV side of the satellite cable.


I trust you mean the (fitting) of the RG6 cable that inputs sat to the Satellite receiver.

This is not a phenomenon I am familiar with...this is a digital connection so any artifacts should be presented in the form of pixelation, breakups, or worst case no picture. However, my understanding of DVI, shows that this is only true digital on a fixed pixel TV such as ILA, DLP, LCD, or Plasma. On a direct view CRT the DVI would go thru a D-A conversion for the analog output display...So it maybe safe to say in a Direct View CRT scenario DVI may not be as of much benefit as with a fixed pixel set.

You are aware that there is several types of DVI connection out there?

In short...without more info or to see the problem first hand I'd have to recommend checking the type of DVI (Connector) cable your using and or exchange the TV itself as the input may be bad...I'd also recommend doing a search on your model TV and see if this is a reported complain with other users.

Jason


----------



## Cholly

The advantage of using DVI with the Sony xxHS series receivers is that it frees up a component video input for other use. With my Sony 32HS500, I use the DVI input for the output from my 811 and component video inputs for my DVD player and DVD recorder. BTW -- the set uses DVI-D, same as the 811


----------



## garypen

Perplexed - I believe someone in another forum that you posted this same question to had replied about the possibility of you accidentally changing the picture mode. It's a real possibility. I also have a Sony HS510, and it looks like crap in "Vivid" mode. I know. I, too, accidentally changed modes to "Vivid", and thought something was wrong with the Dish receiver. Personally, I prefer "Pro" mode.


----------



## Guest

garypen said:


> Perplexed - I believe someone in another forum that you posted this same question to had replied about the possibility of you accidentally changing the picture mode. It's a real possibility. I also have a Sony HS510, and it looks like crap in "Vivid" mode. I know. I, too, accidentally changed modes to "Vivid", and thought something was wrong with the Dish receiver. Personally, I prefer "Pro" mode.


That seems to have done the trick. I had changed to "Vivid" mode when I installed the DV-I cable, becuase the picture was so dim. Unfortunately, this did not solve the problem I was having with a mild flickering with the DV-I connection, so I guess I will just use the components. Even with them, I get a little bit of flickering on some channels (most noticeably on Discovery HD). Has anyone else experienced this?

(Less) Perplexed


----------



## Jason Nipp

Perplexed said:


> That seems to have done the trick. I had changed to "Vivid" mode when I installed the DV-I cable, becuase the picture was so dim. Unfortunately, this did not solve the problem I was having with a mild flickering with the DV-I connection, so I guess I will just use the components. Even with them, I get a little bit of flickering on some channels (most noticeably on Discovery HD). Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> (Less) Perplexed


Do you have a power cord, lamp, or unshielded speaker in close proximity to your CRT?

Jason


----------



## precon1

Any idea why the 811 does not hold the local Digital over the air channels on its menu? Isn't it possible for the system to have Dish Locals and over air entries? A few digital over air entries stay and others do not. Seems weird??


Precon1


----------



## Bobby94928

Sometimes the locals change channels due to PSIP problems. As an example, your channel KATU would be on virtual channel 2-1. When the PSIP isn't working correctly you may find it on its actual channel 43-1.


----------



## Jason Nipp

precon1 said:


> Any idea why the 811 does not hold the local Digital over the air channels on its menu? Isn't it possible for the system to have Dish Locals and over air entries? A few digital over air entries stay and others do not. Seems weird??Precon1


Not sure I am completely understanding what you are saying, but here is my 2 cents.

I have my OTA locals and Dish locals mapped together in the 2-99 range. The thing you must remember for this to fuction correctly is that any mapped OTA channels must all be Digital OTA's...If you map even one analog OTA you will not be able to keep OTA and Dish locals in the 2-99 range at the same time. If you look down this thread far enough you will see me having this same issue several months back. Also I kept loosing my mapped locals from my favorites. Again you have remove any analog OTA for this to work as your trying to. If you aren't mapping any analog OTA's and your still having this issue try saving channel number 9900 to your favorites list. But this issue I haven't heard about since software rev P268. What rev software are you running?

Jason


----------



## garypen

Perplexed said:


> That seems to have done the trick. I had changed to "Vivid" mode when I installed the DV-I cable, becuase the picture was so dim. Unfortunately, this did not solve the problem I was having with a mild flickering with the DV-I connection, so I guess I will just use the components. Even with them, I get a little bit of flickering on some channels (most noticeably on Discovery HD). Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> (Less) Perplexed


You may have a bad DVI cable. It's not common due to the digital nature of the signal. But, it is certainly a possibility.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> You may have a bad DVI cable. It's not common due to the digital nature of the signal. But, it is certainly a possibility.


Gary, don't know if you caught him say it or not...but he did say it happens on component as well. That's why I asked if there was a power cord or unshielded speaker running alongside the CRT.

Jason


----------



## garypen

Sorry. I thought he said it was only on DVI, and that component was fine. In that case, your guess about a power problem might be on the money.


----------



## precon1

Thanks for the help! Dumb me, I look at my locals in a favorite catagory. I had forgotten to add the locals to favorites. This is why they were not showing up.

Thanks


----------



## Guest

Moving my power strip and just generally straightening out all my cables does seem to have helped. I still get a little bit of flickering on Discovery HD, but I think that's not something I can fix.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.


----------



## garypen

It sounds like a shielding problem.


----------



## Guest

garypen said:


> It sounds like a shielding problem.


That was my thought, too, though the Monster cables I am using are supposed to be fully shielded.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Perplexed said:


> That was my thought, too, though the Monster cables I am using are supposed to be fully shielded.


Doesn't necessarily need to be a cable with poor shielding...If you have any thing in close proximity to your CRT that is high power/frequency/gives off a magnetic field...or is powered from the same or adjacent circuit...For instance I used to get ac line noise on my old Sony CRT when someone in the kitchen used the ice dispenser in the door of the fridge. Shortly after which the TV blew from a line surge (Unrelated)...This is when I bought a surpressor/conditioner...I have never had a line noise issue since. If you want to try this approach purchase an line conditioner, or try a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) from your computer and see if the noise goes away. Older tower type speakers or an unshielded speaker placed closely can be a problem, I've seen tower/loudspeakers placed 4 feet off each side magnetize CRTs...nice to have a powerful handheld degaussing coil in this scenario...  . In the world of FMEA testing, I think you would be very surprised on some of the items that cause EMI, RFI, or feedback.

Hope this is helpful,
Jason


----------



## Avillant

Have had my 811 since June and about 3 times, on power up I have gotten just a gray screen and no audio. Guide works okay. Holding the power button for about 10 seconds and letting it boot up seems to be the only way to correct this. I might also have had this problems once when going from watching OTA for several hours and switching to a satellite channel. It seems like I have seen this mentioned before, but I can't find it. Any suggestions?
Tony


----------



## Guest

nippjas said:


> ... If you want to try this approach purchase an line conditioner, or try a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) from your computer and see if the noise goes away. Older tower type speakers or an unshielded speaker placed closely can be a problem, I've seen tower/loudspeakers placed 4 feet off each side magnetize CRTs...nice to have a powerful handheld degaussing coil in this scenario...  . In the world of FMEA testing, I think you would be very surprised on some of the items that cause EMI, RFI, or feedback...


Thanks for the suggestions. I actually do have a line conditioner installed on this system. My tower speakers are shielded and, while I think my powered sub-woofer is as well, moving it a couple of feet away from the TV does seem to have helped - but not eliminated - the problem. Now it occurs only infrequently, which makes me think that some other household device is causing it. I have a freezer on the other side of the wall from the home theater system. It is on a different circuit (I had a separate circuit added just for my HT system), but I wonder if that could be causing it?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Avillant said:


> Have had my 811 since June and about 3 times, on power up I have gotten just a gray screen and no audio. Guide works okay. Holding the power button for about 10 seconds and letting it boot up seems to be the only way to correct this. I might also have had this problems once when going from watching OTA for several hours and switching to a satellite channel. It seems like I have seen this mentioned before, but I can't find it. Any suggestions?


 Yes this is a logged issue starting at P269. I haven't really figured out what triggers this issue yet but then again I haven't seen it since my firmware flashed to P2.80. When this occurs the only thing you can do is the softboot that you already stated.

Did you accept the P2.80 software update? Did you have any trouble downloading the update? Some of us had to jump through fiery hoops in order to get the update to take. I suspect some of the related issues to be from an OTA PSIP to PID data corruption or something like that...Sounds stupid, but ever since I had issues with the P2.80 download, and I had to use a work-around for it to take, I haven't had any of the issues that I previously had that caused me to have to reboot 3-4 times a night.

If your experimental and what to see if flushing works for you...Pull your OTA antenna connection. Then unmap all of your OTA's using the 6-1-5 menu. Then select "Reset to Default Settings". After which power down, pull power plug for 15 minutes, then plug back in, do a switch test, let it acquire your sat feed, flip thru some sat channels to see if they are ok...then reconnect your OTA and scan your digitals. (This is the work around select people had to use to get the last firmware update to take. It may or may not help your situation...but I'd sure be glad to hear if it did help with your issue.)

Good luck,
Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

Perplexed said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I actually do have a line conditioner installed on this system. My tower speakers are shielded and, while I think my powered sub-woofer is as well, moving it a couple of feet away from the TV does seem to have helped - but not eliminated - the problem. Now it occurs only infrequently, which makes me think that some other household device is causing it. I have a freezer on the other side of the wall from the home theater system. It is on a different circuit (I had a separate circuit added just for my HT system), but I wonder if that could be causing it?


EMI can travel thru walls...Especially interior walls that aren't insulated.

Here's another suggestion, get a heavy extension cord and run it to another room far away from this room with the freezer...did it help?

If not...Try and place a large piece of sheet metal, preferably copper, directly behind your TV...solder a 12 gauge wire from one corner of this sheet and ground into a ground conductor of a grounded outlet....not the one that shares the wall with the freezer....Did this help?

Finally...Take into account that even though your outlets are on separate circuits....your grounds are likely shared. 

Jason


----------



## Avillant

nippjas said:


> Yes this is a logged issue starting at P269. I haven't really figured out what triggers this issue yet but then again I haven't seen it since my firmware flashed to P2.80. When this occurs the only thing you can do is the softboot you already stated.
> 
> Did you accept the P2.80 software update? Did you have any trouble downloading the update? Some of us had to jump through fiery hoops in order to get the update to take. I suspect some of the related issues to be from an OTA PSIP to PID data corruption or something like that...Sounds stupid but ever since I had issues with the P2.80 download, had I had to use a workaround for it to take, I haven't had any of the issues I previously had that caused me to have to reboot 3-4 times a night.
> 
> If your experimental and what to see if flushing works for you...Pull your OTA antenna connection. Then unmap all of your OTA's using the 6-1-5 menu. Then select "Reset to Default Settings". After which power down, pull power plug for 15 minutes, then plug back in, do a switch test, let it acquire your sat feed, flip thru some sat channels to see if they are ok...then reconnect you OTA and scan your digitals. (This is the work around select people had to use to get the last firmware update to take. It may or may not help your situation...but I'd sure be glad to hear if it did help with your issue.)
> 
> Good luck,
> Jason


Jason
Yes, I do have 2.80 and it seems to have installed okay. As soon as we stop having hurricanes every weekend, I'll try the total reboot as you suggested. So far, my area has dodged all but Frances, but it makes for stressful living. Thank you so much for your suggestions.
Tony


----------



## Jason Nipp

Here's an interesting issue....

For many weeks my 811 has been perfect...well ever since P280 took...no issues that would require a reboot at all. Around last Sunday my 811 again started going into slo mo where it would require a softboot to recover....I also have seen subscribed channels go red/unavailable, and the infamous loss of audio/video blackout. All requiring a softboot.

It was my wife who first brought up that the lights seemed to dim/flicker as the 811 went into slo mo...So I made a cheater cord (a AC power cord with banana plugs), hooked it up to my Fluke 87 DMM and hit record min/max. Luckily I was able to see this happen before my DMM went into power save. 

When the 811 went into slo mo...the AC Voltage at the input of my Panamax dipped almost 40 volts, and then surged upwards. Sure enough I caught this happening 2 more times. I don't have a UPS(battery backup on my home theater)...So I moved my APC UPS from the office to the TV room, I only hooked up my 811 and DP+44 power inserter for now as the APC unit is only a 200 and couldn't handle the load from my TV. I haven't seen a issue since. I left the Fluke attached to the input power and still see spikes here and there but the 811 hasn't locked up yet. I called ComEd to see if there were any issues in my area....and from what I hear they are replacing some equipment at the substation not to far from here.

Coicidental? :grin: 

Jason


----------



## Cholly

Woo Hoo! If that isn't a wakeup call! I've been mulling the idea of a UPS for my Home Theater equipment and this might just push me into it. I'd protect my 811, 721 and TiVo, I guess. Good, thought provoking post, Jason! :biggthump :goodjob:


----------



## SimpleSimon

Nice find, Jason!

I'll vote for that to be the question/answer of the year!


----------



## Jason Nipp

I had been mulling the idea for awhile myself...I have an LCD RP and it has cooling fans to keep it cool, when the power goes out suddenly, quickly, well lets just say I've been worried about popping bulbs...At $300 each I'd hate to replace this often or prematurely. 

On an update note, I haven't had an issue since I put the UPS on the Receiver/Inserter. The lights continue to flicker every now and then and I am now seeing up to 60 volt dips in power while recording min/max...I would think the dips are larger than this because the Fluke 87 has a latency...it is not the fastest/real time response to real quick fluctuations...I think I will borrow one of my company's real time line monitors from work tomorrow and see how low it is really going.

Jason


----------



## xsnrg

Hi Folks,

New to this forum, but not to the world of AV. I found this board from some links over on avsforum.

Last week, I bought into the HD upgrade from Dish, and received the questionable 811. Before this, I was using a Samsung T351 for OTA DTV/HD, and was quite pleased with the results. Well, enough pleased anyway that I wanted more HD. You all know how it is.

My experiences have been mixed. I have come across most every problem that has been mentioned. First, PQ is not as good as the T351. A little background, I am watching on a JVC DILA set, using component inputs. 720p native, and have both the Samsung and the 811 set to output 720p. I have the 811 on one component input and the 351 on another, and have them tuned to the same broadcast (in this case PBS). There was a cooking show on, and on the apron on the chef, there was some writing. The 811 showed the writing as barely legible, with a stairstepping effect going on. It constantly wavered like a Moire pattern or something. I then switched to the 351, and the letters jumped out quite clear, and there was no sign of wavering. To make sure I was comparing apples to appled, I reversed the hook ups, and saw the same effect manifest using the other set of cables, on the other input on the set. The antenae is split evenly from the same source, and I also reversed the cables to make sure. Finally, I manually switched sources by unplugging cabling, and rehooking to the same input on the TV. Each and every test showed the component output on the 811 to have this affect. Every input/cable/etc on the Samsung also showed to be better. This was even verified by the wife.

Has anyone else compared their 811 picture to a STB OTA? Results?

I have and continue to have the 49% deal. I verified that my software is 280 level.

At this point, I cannot seem to get rid of the jaggies. Unfortunately, my test program ended before I found my HDMI cable, I was going to try it on there as well.

What's the scoop on new software? Is there another one due out?

I guess at this point, I am looking for any advise on this, as I am considering sending this 811 back. I sure like being able to browse all available programming through one interface though. I just spent too much on this setup to sacrifice PQ though...

TIA, and sorry for the long-winded first post here.


----------



## garypen

From everything I've read, the 811's 720p output is generally not as good as it's 1080i, regardless of the display's native resolution, unless the broadcast originates in 780p. 

With the 811, the more important factor is the originating signal. If it is 720p, such as ABC, it might look a little better with 720p output, if it is 1080i, as with CBS and most others, it will definitely look much better set to 1080i output.

Can your JVC projector downconvert from 1080i? If so, you may want to let it do the conversion, instead of the 811.


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> I had been mulling the idea for awhile myself...I have an LCD RP and it has cooling fans to keep it cool, when the power goes out suddenly, quickly, well lets just say I've been worried about popping bulbs...At $300 each I'd hate to replace this often or prematurely.


I've never seen a bulb pop from this. (I work with LCD/DLP pj's on a daily basis as part of my job.) However, powering down, and not letting the fan cool the bulb down properly can lead to an accelerated degradation of bulb performance, and premature loss of life. (...of the bulb, that is.)


----------



## xsnrg

garypen said:


> Can your JVC projector downconvert from 1080i? If so, you may want to let it do the conversion, instead of the 811.


That it can do. I can give it a try. My thought process was the best picture should come from the fewest conversions. Perhaps that just isn't the case with this box.

Is the 811 the latest/greatest Dish has to offer?


----------



## spiff72

I concur with garypen...

Before you give up on it, try setting the 811 to output 1080i. I have seen these odd lines and moire patterns too when it is set to output 720p. Letting the TV do the conversion seems to be a much better choice. And the 720p stations like ABC and ESPN and FOX are probably ones that you should set the 811 to output 720p since you will then avoid ANY conversions...

Jeff



xsnrg said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> New to this forum, but not to the world of AV. I found this board from some links over on avsforum.
> 
> Last week, I bought into the HD upgrade from Dish, and received the questionable 811. Before this, I was using a Samsung T351 for OTA DTV/HD, and was quite pleased with the results. Well, enough pleased anyway that I wanted more HD. You all know how it is.
> 
> My experiences have been mixed. I have come across most every problem that has been mentioned. First, PQ is not as good as the T351. A little background, I am watching on a JVC DILA set, using component inputs. 720p native, and have both the Samsung and the 811 set to output 720p. I have the 811 on one component input and the 351 on another, and have them tuned to the same broadcast (in this case PBS). There was a cooking show on, and on the apron on the chef, there was some writing. The 811 showed the writing as barely legible, with a stairstepping effect going on. It constantly wavered like a Moire pattern or something. I then switched to the 351, and the letters jumped out quite clear, and there was no sign of wavering. To make sure I was comparing apples to appled, I reversed the hook ups, and saw the same effect manifest using the other set of cables, on the other input on the set. The antenae is split evenly from the same source, and I also reversed the cables to make sure. Finally, I manually switched sources by unplugging cabling, and rehooking to the same input on the TV. Each and every test showed the component output on the 811 to have this affect. Every input/cable/etc on the Samsung also showed to be better. This was even verified by the wife.
> 
> Has anyone else compared their 811 picture to a STB OTA? Results?
> 
> I have and continue to have the 49% deal. I verified that my software is 280 level.
> 
> At this point, I cannot seem to get rid of the jaggies. Unfortunately, my test program ended before I found my HDMI cable, I was going to try it on there as well.
> 
> What's the scoop on new software? Is there another one due out?
> 
> I guess at this point, I am looking for any advise on this, as I am considering sending this 811 back. I sure like being able to browse all available programming through one interface though. I just spent too much on this setup to sacrifice PQ though...
> 
> TIA, and sorry for the long-winded first post here.


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> I've never seen a bulb pop from this. (I work with LCD/DLP pj's on a daily basis as part of my job.) However, powering down, and not letting the fan cool the bulb down properly can lead to an accelerated degradation of bulb performance, and premature loss of life. (...of the bulb, that is.)


I agree, was just using pop as a tag line for the bulb dying...prematurely. :grin:


----------



## xsnrg

Well dang. If only the box would remember different resolutions for different OTA channels then. Are we thinking it is the converter in the box that is horking things up?

I'll play around with the 1080i tonight, and see what I can see.


----------



## Jason Nipp

xsnrg said:


> My experiences have been mixed. I have come across most every problem that has been mentioned. First, PQ is not as good as the T351. A little background, I am watching on a JVC DILA set, using component inputs. 720p native, and have both the Samsung and the 811 set to output 720p. I have
> 
> Has anyone else compared their 811 picture to a STB OTA? Results?
> 
> I have and continue to have the 49% deal. I verified that my software is 280 level.
> 
> At this point, I cannot seem to get rid of the jaggies. Unfortunately, my test program ended before I found my HDMI cable, I was going to try it on there as well.
> 
> What's the scoop on new software? Is there another one due out?


Welcome to DBSTalk.

Another software rev is scheduled to spool near end of this month.

With an DILA (fixed pixel) TV you SHOULD get the best PQ using DVI. The 811 doesn't have a HDMI output so if you wanted to use your display's HDMI input you will have to buy a DVI to HDMI coversion box...available on internet here.

I have compared my 811 to an terrestrial STB. I have a Samsung T165. I also played with external scalers for awhile...DvDo iScan HD. The Samsung does give a bit better edge definition than the 811. The iScan improves edge definition, but most importantly the iScan is awesome at controlling aspect ratios. I personally didn't feel the T165 gave much more benefit to warrant having another tuner/remote control in my system...my wife and kids use this thing and I want to keep it simple. But if you feel the T351 is superior...and you can live without the inconvenience of not having the OTA channels mapped in your 811's EPG...Then by all means continue to use it...After all we can't see your PQ and your the one who has to live with it. Maybe try to tweak your PQ...call ISF for an input calibration or buy the video essential disc or otherwise. I first had my set calibrated because my 811 and DVD player share my TV's DVI input...the brightness, color, etc between these two sources were night and day. ISF was able to bring them in balance with each other. Best $275 I spent on the system yet...until E* changes the output levels on DVI and screw the whole calibration up.

As far as the 49% lock...This varies from user to user. I think I have invested wisely in OTA equipment. I have not issues with OTA quality...even analog is good for my situation. But...I did loose some digital OTA's to the 49% lock this last update to P2.80. E* says their working on this?

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

xsnrg said:


> Well dang. If only the box would remember different resolutions for different OTA channels then. Are we thinking it is the converter in the box that is horking things up?
> 
> I'll play around with the 1080i tonight, and see what I can see.


Oh...I have played with the 811's output res...I just keep mine set at 1080i. Your TV's scaler is likely superior to the 811's...let it scale down to native if it needs to.

Jason


----------



## xsnrg

Thanks for the note. Hope this next software is better than the last attempt.

As for the tuning of the set, I don't think that would help in this case. It's not a color/brightness/contrast/etc type of problem. If I didn't know my cables were good (by checking with the Samsung), I would have suspected them. It is more of a hardware type issue. The effect is that of Moire with stair stepping in high contrast areas. Only the 811 shows this, where the Samsung is crisp.

I have the same concerns with ease of use that you do though, and having 2 boxes tuning on different inputs just doesn't trip my trigger, so I am doing what I can to get the best picture out of the 811. Thanks to help from people here, I have another thing to try with the 1080i vs 720p output, and will report back, probably tonight.


----------



## Jason Nipp

xsnrg said:


> Thanks for the note. Hope this next software is better than the last attempt.
> 
> As for the tuning of the set, I don't think that would help in this case. It's not a color/brightness/contrast/etc type of problem. Only the 811 shows this, where the Samsung is crisp.
> 
> I have the same concerns with ease of use that you do though, and having 2 boxes tuning on different inputs just doesn't trip my trigger, so I am doing what I can to get the best picture out of the 811. Thanks to help from people here, I have another thing to try with the 1080i vs 720p output, and will report back, probably tonight.


Gary hates it when I say this.... 

Remember...most TV's are shipped optimized for analog cable...  Sharpness should actually be backed out...There are other settings that could contribute other than brightness and contrast. My set has a long selection of focus and gamma settings...etc....

As I said I have a 811 and a Samsung DVD HD-931 sharing the DVI input. There is a lot of difference in the picture...again I originally calibrated the DVI input to balance the picture between these two independent sources.

Good luck and let us know your findings,
Jason


----------



## garypen

xsnrg said:


> Is the 811 the latest/greatest Dish has to offer?


Sadly, yes. Unless you wish to spend $1000 for their HD DVR. But, that has a whole other set of issues.


----------



## garypen

xsnrg said:


> Well dang. If only the box would remember different resolutions for different OTA channels then. Are we thinking it is the converter in the box that is horking things up?


Most likely.

BTW, native resolution switching has been an oft requested feature by forum members. They say that Dish personnel actually read these forums. Judging from Dish's actions, however, I'd say they don't. Or, they just choose to ignore them.

OTOH, the 811's HW may be incapable of native resolution switching. Or, even more likely, Dish's engineers are incapable of creating the software that would enable it.

If memory serves, the MOXI HD DVR, available from select cable systems, automatically detects the input rez, and adjusts the output accordingly.


----------



## Bobby94928

Gary,

I hear you, but..... I have a Mits 65" that has 108I and 480P native only. You shoot a 720P signal at and it just gives you the big blue screen. 

What you are suggesting would cause the 811 to need to know the native resolutions of every manufacturer so as not to send anything to it that it can not process. Just a thought.


----------



## Jason Nipp

> xsnrg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the 811 the latest/greatest Dish has to offer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> garypen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, yes. Unless you wish to spend $1000 for their HD DVR. But, that has a whole other set of issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I have heard rumors of a new HD unit in development. Not that this is fact, being leaked from E* in all....


----------



## xsnrg

Bobby94928 said:


> Gary,
> 
> I hear you, but..... I have a Mits 65" that has 108I and 480P native only. You shoot a 720P signal at and it just gives you the big blue screen.
> 
> What you are suggesting would cause the 811 to need to know the native resolutions of every manufacturer so as not to send anything to it that it can not process. Just a thought.


One would hope it would be user configurable to be automatic, or locked to a particular output. Ideally, you could select which modes it passes through, and if it wasn't one of them, a default resolution. Wishful thinking.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Since DVI-D is a digital connection, I wonder why they couldn't make it plug and play capatible....hehe.... :nono2: :lol: :nono2:


----------



## garypen

Bobby94928 said:


> What you are suggesting would cause the 811 to need to know the native resolutions of every manufacturer so as not to send anything to it that it can not process. Just a thought.


I would think that it could auto-sense the signal. For instance, my Sony HDTV knows what kind of signal is being inputted. A properly designed 811 could also auto-detect the input, and auto-adjust the output to match. gozinta gozouta. Simple.

I believe the MOXI cable HD DVR already does this.


----------



## garypen

nippjas said:


> Since DVI-D is a digital connection, I wonder why they couldn't make it plug and play capatible....hehe.... :nono2: :lol: :nono2:


They have enough trouble already with just the "play" part.


----------



## xsnrg

Well, the 811 HAS to know what signal is coming into it, to be able to convert it to whatever you told it your output is. That piece, it would seem is done. All that is left is the mapping of the inta resolution to the outa resolution, as it was so eloquently put.


----------



## xsnrg

Well... it made it much better. Even for the 720p OTA native channels, it is better to set it to 1080i. Good enough that I think I can live with it now. PBS had the concert with the clips from the national parks, and it was amazing. Watching Vegas now, and they, er it looks good.

Thanks for the tip for those that suggested it. I wonder if that is a hardware issue or software. 720p just should not do that. Guess we will see what the next software does.


----------



## Guest

Has anyone been able to get their 811 remote to control their Tivo box? The DVR hard keys on the 811 remote are similar to the Tivo remote. TIA.


----------



## Cholly

WDEAU said:


> Has anyone been able to get their 811 remote to control their Tivo box? The DVR hard keys on the 811 remote are similar to the Tivo remote. TIA.


Although the 811 remote is programmable, there are no device codes for TiVo or Replay TV. Therefore, it's not possible for it to control the TiVo.


----------



## Jason Nipp

For those just reading this for the first time...this post is continued from Post numbers: 362-365 earlier in this thread....

Well I've had a Dranetz PP-4300 disturbance/quality monitor hooked up for a couple days now. The lowest it recorded was around 51 volts, the highest was around 125 volts. If I removed the 811 and power inserter from the APC unit...I did get the 811 to go into slo mo. If I switch to harmonics mode I can see the power coming in is very dirty....lots of noise. I have proven my theory to myself, and will be investing in a UPS for my HT equipment.

Yes I will be sending plots to ComEd.









Here's a generic website on terms and basic definitions of AC power, for those who don't understand some or all of the vocabulary I used.
http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/power.htm

Jason


----------



## Foxbat

nippjas said:


> Well I've had a Dranetz PP-4300 disturbance/quality monitor hooked up for a couple days now. The lowest it recorded was around 51 volts, the highest was around 125 volts. If I removed the 811 and power inserter from the APC unit...I did get the 811 to go into slo mo. If I switch to harmonics mode I can see the power coming in is very dirty....lots of noise.


This is most enlightening. I haven't seen the slow-mo on my 811 for quite some time now, and now I wonder if the end of this problem coincides with our local power company finishing work on rerouting some powerlines near our neighborhood.

Could "dirty power" be the difference between some people having problems with their 811s and others having none?


----------



## garypen

I don't know if the "dirty" power is causing the problem. The voltage spikes and dips, though, are another story.

I don't see how a UPS would get rid of dirty power. Usually, one needs an isolation transformer for that. It will, however, take care of those huge voltage fluctuations. And, they are HUGE dude! 

And, believe it or not, the lower voltage of 51 has more of a chance of damaging your equipment than the slightly high 125. As the voltage drops, the equipment draws that much more current to compensate.


----------



## William M.

Hello to all,

I am thinking of taking the HD plunge and going with the 811.

What cables come in the box with the 811 receiver?

I plan on upgrading to better cables in the future but I am curious about what I will be able to do with the 811 right out of the box.

Thanks for all of the wonderful information on this forum.

-Bill M.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Foxbat said:


> This is most enlightening. I haven't seen the slow-mo on my 811 for quite some time now, and now I wonder if the end of this problem coincides with our local power company finishing work on rerouting some powerlines near our neighborhood.
> 
> Could "dirty power" be the difference between some people having problems with their 811s and others having none?


My company products, for safety, are required to have a watchdog to monitor the line for brown out conditions. If the watchdog detects a possible brownout scenario it communicates to the uP and double-line break to secure and gas valves prior to total brownout...UL ...A Satellite receiver is a whole different story. There is no immediate safety concerns surrounding brownout. So it's hit or miss if the receiver even contains a watchdog or not.

Switching gears a bit...the reason UPS systems became so popular is because the computer industry had released studies of AC line stability vs computer stability. I can remember Steve Ballmer of Microsoft making an announcement that the majority of "Blue Screens of Death" were caused by dirty power, power transients, or just plain ole instability. APC and Tripplite made a fortune practically overnight from that announcement.

Do I think power stability is a contributor to overall performance of a uP/CMOS controlled device......You betcha....Look down further is this thread and you'll see a guy with AC line noise cause by a freezer in another room. The noise created a flickering effect on his HDTV CRT.

A UPS can't hurt....well it can't hurt if you size it properly to your load. Don't buy a $40 200VA UPS and expect it to handle your 40" Tube TV and 120 watt x7 amplifier,...etc etc.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

garypen said:


> I don't know if the "dirty" power is causing the problem. The voltage spikes and dips, though, are another story.
> 
> I don't see how a UPS would get rid of dirty power. Usually, one needs an isolation transformer for that. It will, however, take care of those huge voltage fluctuations. And, they are HUGE dude!
> 
> And, believe it or not, the lower voltage of 51 has more of a chance of damaging your equipment than the slightly high 125. As the voltage drops, the equipment draws that much more current to compensate.


Don't necessarily agree about dirty power being benign. I see a lot of sensitivity in uP's. (Oh sorry I may have lost someone in acronyms again...uP=Microprocessor.) I have seen noise play havoc in many different ways.

I have isolation...Panamax 5100. But a good UPS would also provide some isolation and more importantly voltage regulation. It will use it's internal power source to prevent brownouts and sag and swell.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

William M. said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I am thinking of taking the HD plunge and going with the 811.
> 
> What cables come in the box with the 811 receiver?
> 
> I plan on upgrading to better cables in the future but I am curious about what I will be able to do with the 811 right out of the box.
> 
> Thanks for all of the wonderful information on this forum.
> 
> -Bill M.


My 811 came with an el-cheapo composite, component, S-Video, and real cheap Toslink cable. I would say buy a better cable.

Try http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html for good but affordable cables.

Jason


----------



## Cholly

nippjas said:


> My 811 came with an el-cheapo composite, component, S-Video, and real cheap Toslink cable. I would say buy a better cable.
> 
> Try http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html for good but affordable cables.
> 
> Jason


We each have our personal sources for cables and accessories. I like www.impactacoustics.com -- they have a wide variety of audio and video accessories of high quality. I purchased a DVI-D cable from them for connecting my 811 to the DVI input on my Sony HDTV.
Either of these firms have good prices on products every bit as good as the highly overrated Monster Cable brand. IMHO.


----------



## spiff72

Hey everyone...

I finally splurged (well it wasn't much of a splurge - only $25 shipped from www.svideo.com) on a DVI to HDMI cable for my Dish 811. I actually got it to try to hook up my computer, but I changed my mind, and I am now trying it out on my Dish.

I have both the HDMI and the Component video outputs connected to my tv, and I am very disappointed in DVI out of the 811. The color on component "pops" mush more than the HDMI, and the HDMI does seems washed out (blacks look gray). I took some photos of the 2 side by side if you care to see what I mean, but I don't think they do it justice...

here is a link to the album:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected]/my_photos

The side by side ones (called compvshdmi) are the ones to look at, and they have a very nice subject matter (Miss Hawaiian Tropic off HDNET).

I am wondering if anyone else has noticed this while useing a DVI input on their TV or a DVI to HDMI cable on their fixed pixel TV.

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## Jason Nipp

Thanks for the comparo Jeff. I will only add that most high end sets have picture settings that are independent to each input. I also notice the Component side states 1080i res but the HDMI side doesn't state res, I know it sounds stupid but what if your TV can't scale 2 1080 pictures at once, what if the 811 can't. You are using just one receiver correct? Also my final question...Does a TV really display HDTV, 480p-1080i in PiP mode? Not trying to be a dick just playing devil's advocate. My personal opinion is that the 811 is far from perfect. But on my LCD...DVI is far better than component. Which brings me back to another comment I made some time ago. Results vary based upon quality and performance of equipment. 

Spiff, is your set a Fixel pixel set or a CRT projection?

Jason


----------



## spiff72

nippjas said:


> Thanks for the comparo Jeff. I will only add that most high end sets have picture settings that are independent to each input. I also notice the Component side states 1080i res but the HDMI side doesn't state res, I know it sounds stupid but what if your TV can't scale 2 1080 pictures at once, what if the 811 can't. You are using just one receiver correct? Also my final question...Does a TV really display HDTV, 480p-1080i in PiP mode? Not trying to be a dick just playing devil's advocate. My personal opinion is that the 811 is far from perfect. But on my LCD...DVI is far better than component. Which brings me back to another comment I made some time ago. Results vary based upon quality and performance of equipment.
> 
> Spiff, is your set a Fixel pixel set or a CRT projection?
> 
> Jason


The TV is a Mits 62" DLP (62525)...

And I was just showing the side by side to show the difference in PQ. If I look at them individually, I still see the same issue. I don't know if my DVI to HDMI cable is poor quality, if it is the 811, or if the TV is at fault.

I had the video controls set "equally" for the side by side comparo pics (same brightness/contrast/sharpness/color temp/and "perfectcolor" settings). I have tried to tweak the settings on HDMI to get it closer to the component input, and I was unsuccessful. I am now thinking maybe I should try unplugging the component video cables from the Dish receiver and see if it has any effect - I doubt that it should but who knows! And yes, there is just one receiver.

Could you see the difference in the two pictures? The 811 was set to 1080i since I the show was on HDNet.

Thanks again for your input!

Jeff


----------



## Jason Nipp

Yes I could see a difference, but then again a certain amount of the picture info is lost in the ccd lens capture to jpeg conversion to display res of this Dell Latitude. I'm sure your seeing a difference. There are other users that report differences in Component vs. DVI. And I too have to say there is. My picture quality Looks better on DVI, but I had to really turn down brightness, sharpness, and I also had to turn off the autoblack mode. I use my TVs dynamic contrast setting. You shouldn't set your picture settings the same between Comp and DVI, the Comp is converted to analog before hitting the output of your fixed pixel set, DVI is uncompressed digital. Unless some bandwidth is lost in the DVI to HDMI conversion process? Does your TV have just a DVI input? I also don't know how old your 811 is...It is rumored that there is more than 1 hardware revision. I also had my TV calibrated, don't know if this would help your situation or not. 

Jason


----------



## spiff72

nippjas said:


> Yes I could see a difference, but then again a certain amount of the picture info is lost in the ccd lens capture to jpeg conversion to display res of this Dell Latitude. I'm sure your seeing a difference. There are other users that report differences in Component vs. DVI. And I too have to say there is. My picture quality Looks better on DVI, but I had to really turn down brightness, sharpness, and I also had to turn off the autoblack mode. I use my TVs dynamic contrast setting. You shouldn't set your picture settings the same between Comp and DVI, the Comp is converted to analog before hitting the output of your fixed pixel set, DVI is uncompressed digital. Unless some bandwidth is lost in the DVI to HDMI conversion process? Does your TV have just a DVI input? I also don't know how old your 811 is...It is rumored that there is more than 1 hardware revision. I also had my TV calibrated, don't know if this would help your situation or not.
> 
> Jason


I have had my 811 for about a month, maybe a month and a half.

I just wish I had some test patterns that I could get through the 811. I thought I heard that HDNet does some on Tuesday mornings, but I am never home then...

I don't have a plain DVI on my TV, just one HDMI. There has been some speculation on the AVSforum that the HDMI input is actually converted to analog component video inside the TV (this is based on some block diagrams that were pulled from the service manual CD and posted in a couple threads). This speculation is not yet confirmed.

I will have to try and play with the video settings some more and see what I can do. It does look bit more detailed, but washed out, on the HDMI.

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## bavaria72

Jason, quick question about having your TV calibrated. What exactly did that involved? And, if you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost? I have a Hitachi 50" LCD TV (881 box) and pretty happy with the picture however if calibration makes a big difference and doesn't cost a fortune, I might be interested. What were your thoughts (sorry, not really hi-jacking this thread!). - Art


----------



## Jason Nipp

bavaria72 said:


> Jason, quick question about having your TV calibrated. What exactly did that involved? And, if you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost? I have a Hitachi 50" LCD TV (881 box) and pretty happy with the picture however if calibration makes a big difference and doesn't cost a fortune, I might be interested. What were your thoughts.


No problem Art. There wasn't much to it. I called my local ISF tech and scheduled an appointment (and he was even on-time, can you believe that?  ). He used equipment/software to fine tune the picture, this wasn't an just an eyeballing procedure. When all said and done I was charged $275 for the first input, and $180 each additional (I'm sure rates vary), he spent about 4 hours total tweaking. When done he locked the settings from inside the service menu. You still have control of your user menu items and Day/Night modes...(I'm sure it's just a matter of +/- tolerance to the locked settings). I would recommend doing the search for tech with cal equipment under the search tool. Also I have heard stories about retailers paying the license and then sending un-certified techs, Make sure your get an ISF trained and certified tech or your really not getting what your paying for. Tech locator can be found here.

Just as an FYI, I don't know how far back you've read, but I originally called ISF to balance my DVI input as my DVD player and 811 share the same DVI input...there was a very noticeable difference between the two externally switched sources. I also had the S-Video input 3 done which is the input my JVC S-VHS is on. I stand by the work done and highly recommend the ISF guys, though I'm sure since each is his own, results and experience may vary.

Any further questions just ask or private message me, I'll try to help the best I can. :grin:

http://www.imagingscience.com/

Good luck,
Jason
Hitachi 50V500A


----------



## bavaria72

Thanks a million Jason for the info!


----------



## Foxbat

nippjas said:


> A UPS can't hurt....well it can't hurt if you size it properly to your load. Don't buy a $40 200VA UPS and expect it to handle your 40" Tube TV and 120 watt x7 amplifier,...etc etc.
> 
> Jason


Well, I hate to break this news, but I brought home an APC BackUPS 650 and plugged in my 811 and 34HF81. This morning while watching DiscoHD, it went into the 1/2fps mode, not once, but twice. I don't know if this is because the BackUPS line isn't a "good" UPS and may not be boosting a low voltage situation, but I saw no flicker in the lights when this happened. My 811's slow-mo issue may have another cause.


----------



## Jason Nipp

I don't believe the 650VA is enough for your large CRT and Sat system, What series is it and what else do you have connected?

Using the small UPS selector on Emerson's site If I plug in a Dual Xenon workstation and 21" CRT monitor the results pane show this equipment draws 827VA. How big is your CRT? I would expect a continuous duty UPS rated at 1500VA, like this one or this one, or larger to be required to drive a 34" HDTV and Satellite receiver, which by the way is also drawing a good chunk as it is providing power to the switch and LNBF's. I would recommend trying without your CRT connected.

APC UPS sizing tool located here.
Emerson UPS sizing tool located here.

This is the unit, PS1440RT2-120: PowerSure PSI, I ordered. Take it into consideration that it is overkill for an system with an LCD TV, but I get a nice little discount.

Lastly, my posts were intended to show others that this is an issue I have been seeing with my own equipment in my own locale. I didn't demand or intend to insinuate that everyone else was having the same exact issue, my recommendations were based upon information collected from my own situation, I do believe this is worth looking at if your having the problem, but as others have said, mileage and results may vary.

Jason


----------



## BFG

OTA Guide data is rolling for the 811  talk about it here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=34014

Also the video freezes on TNT etc.. and more recall problems are supposed to be fixed...

Now we get to check what's been broken


----------



## Zotzgotz

Hello All 
I am having a problem with my JVC811 receiver. Up front I don't know a lot about the sat system so please keep your answers simple ( in other words i am a dope). When I change from ota hd sometimes the screen goes black, I still have the guide, the menu items and Sirius radio plays. I have tried shutting off and on, going to the install and checking switch even pulling the plug for 1/2 hour. Some times I get the finding sat screen,then the loading guide screen and when it is done still no picture. It always comes back I just don't know when it will, or what I have done, if anything to make it come back. 
I have a new Sony XBR and it seem to work fine so I think the problem is in the sat box. Does anyone have an idea of suggestion as to what I should do to fix this. Your knowledge will be appreciated since I have no ideas.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Zotzgotz said:


> Hello All
> I am having a problem with my JVC811 receiver. Up front I don't know a lot about the sat system so please keep your answers simple ( in other words i am a dope). When I change from ota hd sometimes the screen goes black, I still have the guide, the menu items and Sirius radio plays. I have tried shutting off and on, going to the install and checking switch even pulling the plug for 1/2 hour. Some times I get the finding sat screen,then the loading guide screen and when it is done still no picture. It always comes back I just don't know when it will, or what I have done, if anything to make it come back.


What your describing is what we refer to as the BSOD (Black Screen of Death). This is a known issue. The only thing you can do to recover is a softboot or hardboot. A softboot consists of holding down your receivers front panel power button for around 20 seconds, at which time you will see it reboot. A hardboot is turning off power and unplugging for like 15 minutes.

Jason


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## Zotzgotz

Thanks for the info I will give it a try. If it is a known issue would a update from dish correct it or are they not interested in a fix?


----------



## Guest

Has anyone ever noticed that HD sports downconverted to svideo/composite can have a shimmering/wavy effect? For example, in a football game when panning the field, the yard markers kind of waver and shimmer. Tennis (US Open) had a similar effect, where the white lines of the court had sort of a strobe effect. I first noticed this when I taped something. I thought it was just the tape, but live HD downconverted sports (svideo) look the same.

I briefly owned an OTA only HD reciever, and I don't remember this happening.

Has anyone else ever noticed this?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Zotzgotz said:


> Thanks for the info I will give it a try. If it is a known issue would a update from dish correct it or are they not interested in a fix?


Good Question, I can't answer it. Speaking generally however, Dish has been consistently releasing new software for the 811. This is supposed to be an issue on their agenda but I can only speculate whether or not it actually gets fixed or when they will try.

Jason


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## c_caz

I see that shimmer if I have the box set to 1080i and watch via Svideo. At 1080i I do not see the effect via component/DVI. If I set it to 480P I then do not see the effect with Svideo. The problem is it's not a simple switch to go from 1080i to 480P so I just try and ignore it.


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## Jason Nipp

Not sure I understand your comment, the Composite and S-Video ports only output 480I at any HDTV resolution, the resolution selection is only active pertaining to Component Video(YPrPb) or DVI...software glitch maybe. I haven't seen the issue but I agree with the original poster, OTA HD was much cleaner when I was using an SIR-T165 STB for OTA.


----------



## Foxbat

Jason,
The Toshiba shows a wattage rating of 145W; I don't know about the 811 (it's not listing in the owner's manual, tsk, tsk) but I'm guessing no more than 50W. So, the Back UPS 650 should be at 30-40% load.

Also, my 811 is now at P281 and it went into .5 fps mode during DiscoHD's Home Deconstruction show tonight. And, watching "Rides", it just happened again (11:21).


----------



## Jason Nipp

Foxbat said:


> Jason,
> The Toshiba shows a wattage rating of 145W; I don't know about the 811 (it's not listing in the owner's manual, tsk, tsk) but I'm guessing no more than 50W. So, the Back UPS 650 should be at 30-40% load.
> 
> Also, my 811 is now at P281 and it went into .5 fps mode during DiscoHD's Home Deconstruction show tonight. And, watching "Rides", it just happened again (11:21).


I'm sorry to hear that this wasn't the solution for you Foxbat. I am still stable in respect to slomo....but I have gotten the BSOD several times in the last few days.

Jason


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## Guest

Just curious is there anyway to record the channels unique to the 811 using an older dish pvr. I know it would not be HD quality. I have seen earlier posts about people using tivos for this purpose. 

Being middle aged with young kids i'm not in a rush to tape hdnet bikini adventures. Also, it is hard to read the back of the 501 but it does not appear to have the inputs needed to record from 811. Any work around


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## Guest

If you have a TV or projector capable of good signal processing Standard non HDTV channels benefit enormously from signal processing (converting 480i to 480p inside tv or projector). With my projector regular SDTV channels look much better from older receivers as compared to the 811. That is because I can set the projector (infocus 4805) to sharpen image with faroudja processing. I've heard Sony TVs are likewise capable of great signal processing. With some TVs and projectors older dish receivers should be much better than 811 for standard channels.

To put it another way the signal processing line doubling in 811 for standard channels is far from state of the art (i.e. it sucks).

I read through the thread and did not see mention of this limitation. I am no expert and hope I am not missing something. If you have a high end tv or projector you may want to explore other options for non hdtv channels.


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## Bobby94928

The 811 outputs 480i on the S-video and Composite outs. It can be made to output 480P, 720P and 1080I on the Component and DVI outs. I don't see a problem here.


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## Guest

Bobby94928 said:


> The 811 outputs 480i on the S-video and Composite outs. It can be made to output 480P, 720P and 1080I on the Component and DVI outs. I don't see a problem here.


Thanks for the info B. Big help. That is why i qualified my statement by "i'm no expert". Still, that means some people with PJs or large screen TVs (standard tv looks fine to me on 31 and smaller TVs) need to switch from component to svideo output when watching regular TV. I did not know that and I'll bet others were unaware. Counterintuitve and possibly inconvenient.

I'm just learning. Are s-video and composite always 480i


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## Bobby94928

spb37 said:


> I'm just learning. Are s-video and composite always 480i


Yes..... and you really should register, it's free.


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## Pils

Looks like I found a winner with the 811, maybe not though. My box likes to shuffle my local channels around, the OTA channels. One day they are normal, next day they disappear. Rescan and sometimes get them back, then click on channel and they renumber to some random channel # not even in market. Spent hours on phone and they sent me to special 811 tech and apparently this is a first, they never heard of this so they filled out a special form. Anyone ever hear of this? Between this, BSOD 5 times a day, reacquiring quide 5 times in a row, and all other random things, I am very close to cancelling and switching providers. I have better things to do than sit on a phone with "tech" people who never hear of these problems, so why stay with them?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Pils said:


> Looks like I found a winner with the 811, maybe not though. My box likes to shuffle my local channels around, the OTA channels. One day they are normal, next day they disappear. Rescan and sometimes get them back, then click on channel and they renumber to some random channel # not even in market. Spent hours on phone and they sent me to special 811 tech and apparently this is a first, they never heard of this so they filled out a special form. Anyone ever hear of this? Between this, BSOD 5 times a day, reacquiring quide 5 times in a row, and all other random things, I am very close to cancelling and switching providers. I have better things to do than sit on a phone with "tech" people who never hear of these problems, so why stay with them?


I have had this happen before, but there are more than one reason for this to occur. 1.) PSIP Data from your OTA station, 2.) You have an analog OTA mapped and try set LiL's to the 2-99 range, 3.) when you make a change to your Menu 6-1-5 locals setup you did not refresh your favorites list.

BSOD is a problem, I am hopeful to see a correction for this soon. The 811 is a tempermental receiver, patience is necessary, though it should not be required.

Jason


----------



## Pils

nippjas said:


> I have had this happen before, but there are more than one reason for this to occur. 1.) PSIP Data from your OTA station, 2.) You have an analog OTA mapped and try set LiL's to the 2-99 range, 3.) when you make a change to your Menu 6-1-5 locals setup you did not refresh your favorites list.
> 
> BSOD is a problem, I am hopeful to see a correction for this soon. The 811 is a tempermental receiver, patience is necessary, though it should not be required.
> 
> Jason


None of the above pertains to my problem. This problem is strange and it seems to me with so many bugs in the firmware, dishnetwork should not have released the equipment until it is stable.


----------



## bavaria72

Pils said:


> ...dishnetwork should not have released the equipment until it is stable.


Oh Pils, please don't say that outloud around here!


----------



## harsh

Foxbat said:


> The Toshiba shows a wattage rating of 145W; I don't know about the 811 (it's not listing in the owner's manual, tsk, tsk) but I'm guessing no more than 50W. So, the Back UPS 650 should be at 30-40% load.


Know that UPS devices are rated in Volt-Amps as opposed to watts. Depending on the UPS manufacturer, the Volt-Amps rating may be as much as 75% higher than the watts rating. Your Back UPS 650 is rated at only 400 watts while the Tripp-Lite BC Pro 600VA musters only 345 Watts.


----------



## Jason Nipp

bavaria72 said:


> Oh Pils, please don't say that outloud around here!


Yep...Pils watch your P's and Q's...  this is a sure way to start a riot in here...there will be anarchy, guest posters will become mods, the sky will turn black, rivers red,...and Spongebob will win on Nov 2nd. 

Jason


----------



## khearrean

Well.....when I downloaded 2.81 the other day, amazingly the problem I was having with the program description only staying up 3-4 seconds when the info button was pressed was corrected.  
But that problem was replaced with another.....  now when I have been watching my locals on cable for awhile and then switch over to SAT, the EPG tries downloading the info but gets stuck about 3/4 of the way through & just freezes. Tonight not even holding in on the power button for 7 seconds helped. I had to totally power off, re-tried downloadinng & after a couple times finally was able to complete the EPG download.
What a pain in the ***.!!


----------



## Ron Barry

khearrean said:


> Well.....when I downloaded 2.81 the other day, amazingly the problem I was having with the program description only staying up 3-4 seconds when the info button was pressed was corrected.
> But that problem was replaced with another.....  now when I have been watching my locals on cable for awhile and then switch over to SAT, the EPG tries downloading the info but gets stuck about 3/4 of the way through & just freezes. Tonight not even holding in on the power button for 7 seconds helped. I had to totally power off, re-tried downloadinng & after a couple times finally was able to complete the EPG download.
> What a pain in the ***.!!


Do you get this all the time? I did get this one after 2.81, but have not seen it since. This problem was there a few releases back, looks like they might have a regression bug in 2.81.


----------



## stone phillips

hey i have yo agree with pils even though i don't have a 811 they have a huge history of software bugs for almost every receiver, i have had the problems with conflicting timers on 7200 that stonecold talks of, Ive had the 301.010 p226 lockups and 301.013 p2.01-p2.04 freezeups 721 full of problems, 501and508 work good though
dish has history just release to customer as soon as you can mentality, testing would do them some good

i also have dtivos and dtv seems rather fast to fix there software bugs except for series1 acquiring guide data error 6 months back but its fixed.

if dtv can fix these bugs relatively quick, why can dishnet not do the same?

based on my experiences i love dishnetwork itself but the equipment is junk

dtv is okay but equipment far superior to dishnet

dishnet needs to do more research and testing before they release there equipment

i agree with pils don't release until tested and stable


----------



## khearrean

WeeJavaDude said:


> Do you get this all the time? I did get this one after 2.81, but have not seen it since. This problem was there a few releases back, looks like they might have a regression bug in 2.81.


To answer your question, this has only happened once since 2.81 but has happened before 2.81 (during several previous software releases) very sporatically. (Maybe 5-6 times in the 7 or so months I've had the 811). The point is in my opinion, even once is too much!! Particularly when Dish says they are not aware of this problem & if they're not aware, they cannot correct it!!!...One step forward...two steps back


----------



## Zotzgotz

Has anyone else lost the program guide since the last "down"grade? I now get the next 1/2 hour or hour listings depending on the length of the show on my 811. It says no info for all the rest. All my other receivers have the guide as usual. Tried soft and hard reload soso.


----------



## DHall

Zotzgotz said:


> Has anyone else lost the program guide since the last "down"grade? I now get the next 1/2 hour or hour listings depending on the length of the show on my 811. It says no info for all the rest. All my other receivers have the guide as usual. Tried soft and hard reload soso.


Yes, I've noticed this too. I just got my 811 replaced, as my old one was having 3 or 4 black screens every day after P281. I didn't have the guide problem with my original 811, but the new one has only between 1/2 hour and an hour of data in the guide. My dad just got an 811 about 3 weeks ago and has noticed the same thing.

For what it's worth, when I called in about my black screen problem, the advance tech support person said they knew about it and a software fix was coming in November. They replaced mine because they said I was getting them way too often. Haven't had one with the new 811 (1 week).


----------



## Pils

DHall said:


> Yes, I've noticed this too. I just got my 811 replaced, as my old one was having 3 or 4 black screens every day after P281. I didn't have the guide problem with my original 811, but the new one has only between 1/2 hour and an hour of data in the guide. My dad just got an 811 about 3 weeks ago and has noticed the same thing.
> 
> For what it's worth, when I called in about my black screen problem, the advance tech support person said they knew about it and a software fix was coming in November. They replaced mine because they said I was getting them way too often. Haven't had one with the new 811 (1 week).


I have been on the phone with them constantly the past week and all they do is transfer me repeatedly. Unfortunately, I talked with the special 811 tech group and a even group higher and they told me the black screen is so common but there is not a fix yet and it may be a while. They said the next software rev that comes out will not deal with the black screen problem. Oh, and I am still battling my original problems with them. My locals are messed and I had to submit pictures because they say what I claim is not true. Guess I the customer must be wrong again.


----------



## naqbrules

So what exactly is theother issue you've been having Pils. have you posted on it somewhere else? curiosity


----------



## Pils

I have been having my locals display sirius channel info, renumber themselves after a few hours or days and disappear, mainly OTA channels. One page back I wrote something on it.


----------



## Foxbat

Had a new issue today. All of my SD programming looked like it was being broadcast in 160x100: very blocky, and it was almost like the odd and even pixels were swapped when you looked at diagonal edges. Fortunately, a hold-the-power-button-for fifteen-seconds reboot fixed it, but I was weirded out there for a bit.


----------



## moman19

Foxbat said:


> Had a new issue today. All of my SD programming looked like it was being broadcast in 160x100: very blocky, and it was almost like the odd and even pixels were swapped when you looked at diagonal edges. Fortunately, a hold-the-power-button-for fifteen-seconds reboot fixed it, but I was weirded out there for a bit.


I'm starting to HATE this box: Black Screen of Death, jumbled locals listing, crappy analog reception, etc. How do you get this thing fixed short of switching to D-TV?


----------



## Pils

moman19 said:


> I'm starting to HATE this box: Black Screen of Death, jumbled locals listing, crappy analog reception, etc. How do you get this thing fixed short of switching to D-TV?


I agree, unfortunately nothing you can do. They claim they are always working on a fix but seems they are trying to fix only additional features to add on and neglect the current problems of the box. The box is complete junk.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Pils said:


> I agree, unfortunately nothing you can do. They claim they are always working on a fix but seems they are trying to fix only additional features to add on and neglect the current problems of the box. The box is complete junk.


I don't think it's complete junk, I think it would be very useful in assisting you in the process of sighting in your hunting rifle.... 

But seriously, maybe I'm just used to the hiccups, but with the exception of a BSOD here and there I think it does pretty much what I want it to. Sure it should be flawless, but guess I'm just immune to new technology releases and the product performance that accompanies it. Where were you with the original release of Windows?, What about the Altare?, Commadore? How about the Original IBM PS2 where all your peripherals hung out the side like the leaning horizontal tower of expansion cards...:grin:

In short I am a tech nut...I am one of the first to buy...The 811 is by far NOT the buggiest hardware I have ever bought...YES IT COULD BE better....And SHOULD BE by now...However in the 811's defense it has improved 10 fold in less than a year.

My 2 cents.
Jason


----------



## moman19

nippjas said:


> In short I am a tech nut...I am one of the first to buy...The 811 is by far NOT the buggiest hardware I have ever bought...YES IT COULD BE better....And SHOULD BE by now...However in the 811's defense it has improved 10 fold in less than a year.


Nippjas: Any idea why one DT local channel in particular seems to bounce from 2-1 (2=its analog counterpart) in the guide to 43-1 and back again seemingly at will?


----------



## Pils

moman19 said:


> Nippjas: Any idea why one DT local channel in particular seems to bounce from 2-1 (2=its analog counterpart) in the guide to 43-1 and back again seemingly at will?


Didn't realize others had this issue besides me. I can get them normal when I scan but as soon as I change channels they renumber on about 5 OTA channels and sometimes disappear completely. Welcome to the club.

And yes, I did by a new scope for my hunting rifle so maybe the 811 is not completely useful after all, never thought about that.


----------



## Bobby94928

Because the station's PSIP is unstable......


----------



## Jason Nipp

Bobby94928 said:


> Because the station's PSIP is unstable......


Exactly....And as Bobby stated the station transmits the PSIP not Dish.


----------



## moman19

nippjas said:


> Exactly....And as Bobby stated the station transmits the PSIP not Dish.


OK, I'm new here. What's PSIP and would it help to notify the station? It's a Fox affiliate and I find it difficult to believe they would be unaware of the problem. None of the other DT locals in town seem to suffer this problem.


----------



## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> OK, I'm new here. What's PSIP and would it help to notify the station? It's a Fox affiliate and I find it difficult to believe they would be unaware of the problem. None of the other DT locals in town seem to suffer this problem.


Welcome aboard, sorry if you felt like we were jumping down your throat...There are issues with the 811, but not as many as the 921. I see alot of people that are quick to direct blame at E* for things that are beyond their control...of course there are more than one instance where E* deserves the negativity...but this isn't one of them.

You can learn more about PSIP here.

Jason


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## Pils

I do know my problem is not the PSIP. One 811 displays all the correct local guide and channels while another displays randomized numbers and even random guide info like the Sirius channels on my local OTA channels. This is from the same antenna feed so I am sure it is not my stupidity, thank you very much.


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## Jason Nipp

Pils said:


> I do know my problem is not the PSIP. One 811 displays all the correct local guide and channels while another displays randomized numbers and even random guide info like the Sirius channels on my local OTA channels. This is from the same antenna feed so I am sure it is not my stupidity, thank you very much.


I believe if you look around at my past posts you'll see I have been as helpful as possible to users in need. Don't act like a martyr...no one has called you stupid!

The local OTA channel mapping is info derived from PSIP. Sirius is not OTA and I've never seen an issue with their channel arrangement...there are issues with the 811, not saying there isn't...this forum is here to help and to be constructive with feedback.

Jason


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## Jason Nipp

Pils said:


> ...I can get them normal when I scan but as soon as I change channels they renumber on about 5 OTA channels and sometimes disappear completely...


Pils, just one comment...remember that anytime you rescan or an OTA flakes out and you end up remapping...that you should also remove and then add it and save your favorites list...That is if it is in one of your favorites of course.

Jason


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## garypen

Bobby94928 said:


> Because the station's PSIP is unstable......


Nah. I think it's the 811. Or, at least its ability to handle less-than-perfect PSIP signals.

I was having problems with some stations losing their mapping. Then a Dish SW update would fix it. Then, another update would cause a relapse. So, it's 811-related.


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## moman19

nippjas said:


> Welcome aboard, sorry if you felt like we were jumping down your throat...There are issues with the 811, but not as many as the 921. I see alot of people that are quick to direct blame at E* for things that are beyond their control...of course there are more than one instance where E* deserves the negativity...but this isn't one of them.
> 
> Jason


No offense taken. But the 811 sure is flakey. Seems like every time I switch from OTA to SAT, the guide has to refresh and I'm stuck looking at a PLEASE WAIT.... screen. What's that all about? My old 4000 never had that problem (granted, it did not receive OTA channels). Other times, I'm forced to reboot due to the BSOD. Had I known the box was this tempermental, I would have bought a TV with a built-in tuner. I can cross fingers hoping that the next release will fix some of this, but from what I've been reading it's unlikely. So, maybe it's time to check out a D-TV box. I dunno. What do you think?????


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> No offense taken. But the 811 sure is flakey. Seems like every time I switch from OTA to SAT, the guide has to refresh and I'm stuck looking at a PLEASE WAIT.... screen. What's that all about? My old 4000 never had that problem (granted, it did not receive OTA channels). Other times, I'm forced to reboot due to the BSOD. Had I known the box was this tempermental, I would have bought a TV with a built-in tuner. I can cross fingers hoping that the next release will fix some of this, but from what I've been reading it's unlikely. So, maybe it's time to check out a D-TV box. I dunno. What do you think?????


I hear what your saying, but a separate tuner wasn't the answer for me. I have a mothballed Samsung SIR-T165 HD-OTA set top box. It did provide a slightly better picture and I was able to grab DTV OTA's a bit further out...But when it came down to it I have a wife and kids and needed a simpler solution. Having the OTA's mapped directly into the EPG and not having to toggle input is a simpler solution for the technically challenged. Hell I have to do a walk thru every time one of them wants to watch a DVD. Prior to having LiL toggling Dish and OTA on the 301's was a friggin nightmare between the wife and her Days of Our Lives and the kids wanting Nick Jr or Noggin turned on....And this is not to mention when the barely cable-ready Grandparents come over....There's enough dramatic Sicilian's in my life I hate to hear the *****in start when their over on a Sunday and can't figure out how to turn on the game...But that's my rant and your rant may differ.... :grin:

Jason


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## naqbrules

Look at switching from OTA to SAT as this..when you are OTA the rcvr is NOT accessing satellite signal..it's exactly like you disconnected sat in..if you are on an OTA channel for an extended period of time you will have to reaquire signal and guide info because it is no longer looking at that stream.


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## moman19

naqbrules said:


> Look at switching from OTA to SAT as this..when you are OTA the rcvr is NOT accessing satellite signal..it's exactly like you disconnected sat in..if you are on an OTA channel for an extended period of time you will have to reaquire signal and guide info because it is no longer looking at that stream.


I assumed exactly what you suggest. But isn't that a dumb design that's unfixable via any SW patch? If so, why pit up with this $h*t???

Also, I can understand your logic as it concerns disconnecting Sat in. However, why does my guide data get jumbled and the "WAIT" screens generated when I'm merely channel surfing? I can understand losing Sat data if in OTA mode for a prolonged period (still a dumb design), but why would this occur merely by switching from Sat to OTA and back again? THese recievers must have some small amount of memory to buffer this data.

This does not occur every time I surf, so I cannot replicate it on demand. But it DOES happen. In fact, I've watched the guide go from fully populated to "LOCAL DIGITAL" literals for all OTA channels, right before my eyes.


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## Guest

A D* rep told me this on one of my many phone calls to them. I didn't believe it would work, but it did.

The '811 rarely loads the full program guide when it is ON. You have to
turn it "OFF" (which isn't really off). In this idle state, it will load more
of the program guide. So if you used to leaving the receiver on all the
time, you are more apt to have missing guide info and/or scrambled
channels.

Since I started turning off my receiver when I wasn't using it, I haven't
seen any guide problems.

Still have the BSOD problem now and then, but that's a different topic.


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## DJ Rob

I just got a new 811 installed this week. I get the BSOD at least once a day and have the 49% signal problem with locals. I only get 2 locals now in digital instead of 7 with my 6000. I don't mind the BSOD but not getting my locals in HD that I got with my 6000 is very frustrating. Will a replacement 811 fix the 49% thing?


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## Ron Barry

DJ Rob said:


> I just got a new 811 installed this week. I get the BSOD at least once a day and have the 49% signal problem with locals. I only get 2 locals now in digital instead of 7 with my 6000. I don't mind the BSOD but not getting my locals in HD that I got with my 6000 is very frustrating. Will a replacement 811 fix the 49% thing?


Not many people are still having the 49% issues. The 811 is more sensitive to multipathing so that might explain what you are seeing. I would suggest doing a search on this issue and see some of the suggestions. Are you getting a lot of drop outs? What version number are you on?


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## DJ Rob

WeeJavaDude said:


> Not many people are still having the 49% issues. The 811 is more sensitive to multipathing so that might explain what you are seeing. I would suggest doing a search on this issue and see some of the suggestions. Are you getting a lot of drop outs? What version number are you on?


I got the latest firmware version. I'm not really getting drop outs.

Once the box locks onto a signal I'm good to go.

But that takes a few times of changing to the channels it does it on to get a lock. It usually sits at 49% and then maybe goes up and down a little. 
Then the signal lost screen and then sometimes anywhere from 5-30 seconds it MAY come on. Sometimes it locks, sometimes it doesn't.

Two of the channels I have the problem with I get about 80+ on the signal strength. I've tried moving the antenna to see if that helps but it does not.


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## Ron Barry

DJ Rob said:


> I got the latest firmware version. I'm not really getting drop outs.
> 
> Once the box locks onto a signal I'm good to go.
> 
> But that takes a few times of changing to the channels it does it on to get a lock. It usually sits at 49% and then maybe goes up and down a little.
> Then the signal lost screen and then sometimes anywhere from 5-30 seconds it MAY come on. Sometimes it locks, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Two of the channels I have the problem with I get about 80+ on the signal strength. I've tried moving the antenna to see if that helps but it does not.


Do you have the antenna going through any type of surge protection? OTA is an art for sure. I had a 6000 and moved to an 811. When I first installed it I was getting a lot less in channels. Turned out the issues was somehow releated to the power conditionar. How do I know this. I plugged my 6000 back in and no longer could get the channels I got before. It was very strange and I never went back to troubleshoot.

First off, signal strength is a signal to error ratio from my understanding. It is not a signal strength meter. So I have been told. With the two channels you are getting are you seeing a drop in signal strength compared to your 6000?

Check your cables and if you are running through a surget protection device of some sort bypass it to make sure this is not the cause.

Like I said earlier, do a search on here. there are a number of threads with suggestions on how to get things going. You might have a multipath issue or you something might have gotten tweaked in the change over. OTA on the 811 is pretty solid compared to how it was 4 or 5 revs back.

If you still have your 6000, plug it back in an check your signal strength and see if you can still get the channels you could before.

Just given some suggestion on things you might want to try.


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## Pils

nippjas said:


> Pils, just one comment...remember that anytime you rescan or an OTA flakes out and you end up remapping...that you should also remove and then add it and save your favorites list...That is if it is in one of your favorites of course.
> 
> Jason


I have tried everything on this box and still have local problems, even the above. I have known that trick for sometime but does nothing in my case. But, I have more proof that my box is junk. Even though my OTA channels disappear or renumber, (PSIP everyone claims and they stick to it) now my regular channels are disappearing. I have dishnetwork channels gone, not in any list (All channels, sub channels,etc. Have not made any lists either). These are not local channels and can not be attributed to PSIP info. That is why I say my box is faulty, one of a kind problem not associated with software problems. All my other boxes show these channels fine. Any how, dishnetwork will not respond to my calls and they say they will call back but never do. How in the world am I suppose to get this replaced. They stand to the PSIP stance and this has been over a month. I may see the light at the end of the tunnel. Is that you DTV? Even bunny ear antennas are a better option because cutomer service at dishnetwork is shambles, no help what so ever. I call in about this problem and had this guy talking about your ups tracking number is ..... OK, but nothing is being shipped dumbass so you obviously have the wrong person. Called back in today and I swear it was the same guy. This time he said your card is being shipped. Great, but the 811 is cardless you moron. Sorry, but my daily update with dish.


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## Nick

satbob said:


> A D* rep told me this on one of my many phone calls to them...The 811 rarely loads the full program guide when it is ON...


FYI:
E* = *E*choStar (DishNetwork)
D* = *D*irecTV


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## khearrean

Well, I just had a new problem with my 811. After switching back over to SAT from watching my locals via cable, the SAT PQ was wierd. There were different color vertical lines the whole width of the picture on all channels. At first I thought something must have happened to my DVI cable as I had never had this problem before. So I called Dish tech support and the rep had me do a hard re-boot (hold in on the power botton) and let the unit re-start. Once I did that, everything was normal again. Has anyone else seen this issue? BTW, I still have version 2.81 as 2.82 hasn't gotten to me yet.

Ken


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## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> Well, I just had a new problem with my 811. After switching back over to SAT from watching my locals via cable, the SAT PQ was wierd. There were different color vertical lines the whole width of the picture on all channels. At first I thought something must have happened to my DVI cable as I had never had this problem before. So I called Dish tech support and the rep had me do a hard re-boot (hold in on the power botton) and let the unit re-start. Once I did that, everything was normal again. Has anyone else seen this issue? BTW, I still have version 2.81 as 2.82 hasn't gotten to me yet.
> 
> Ken


i wonder if this could be this color fade issue some of the others are discussing....I'll look into it....Ken any chance of a screen shot or digital pic so I can forward to the appropriate parties. How long does it last, when does it occur? Ca you replicate? The more info the better. PM me your info.

Jason


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## jla376

I have been with Dish since May '04 have been satisfied with their service and equipment, until last week. Last week I started losing my locals,CBS ABC NBC, all HD, that I receive via antenna. I have tried to retrieve by digital scan and manually adding, with no luck. All I can get is the 49% as stated in several past posts in this thread. I have tried both hard and soft reboot.

Details:
Still showing 2.81 version
All 3 transmitt towers, all on the same mountain, approx. nine miles as the crow flies.
Lost : CBS = signal upper 70's to low 80's
NBC = signal upper 80's to low 90's

Any suggestions?


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## Cholly

Before doing the digital scan, try removing your favorites.... then doing the scan. Sounds crazy, but may work. I think Jason suggested this somewhere earlier in this thread. comments, nippjas?


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## Jason Nipp

Cholly said:


> Before doing the digital scan, try removing your favorites.... then doing the scan. Sounds crazy, but may work. I think Jason suggested this somewhere earlier in this thread. comments, nippjas?


There's been several issues I and others have ran into having OTA's mapped during a firmware update. A while back I suggested that E*'s script perform a master reset prior to flashing the firmware. I have had to remove OTA connection and maps, and default the receiver to get it to flash to P269, Gary and a couple others also had to. I actually recommend removing your OTA and resetting all your personal settings during a firmware update...It is apparent to many that the 811 and 301 have some memory allocation issues. But yes, back to your original statement, If you rescan your OTA's definitely remove and readd them to your favorites list or they will end up playing hide and go seek with you. (Known Bug).

Jason


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## Cholly

Thanks, Jason -- I had forgotten the details. I also had encountered the BSOD on OTA after 282 was downloaded, and followed your instructions. Haven't had that problem since.


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## patrickthickey

Please no flames - I used SEARCH and have read more about the 811 than I ever desired to know...

* is there a combination of remote keys or a MACRO I can program to toggle the output resolution of the receiver without having to plow multiple levels into the Setup menus?

I find it utterly lame to not have this capability when my HDTivo has it. Lack of native output may be asking for too much, I concede that issue. 

But if the ability to change output exists inside the menu it potentially can be used via the remote.

Any help from anyone? Most appreciated if you can!

thanks.

regards,

patrick


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## Guest

I agree. A one button push to cycle through the available resolutions would be great.


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## BFG

sounds like a good use for he sd/hd button


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## Jason Nipp

Sounds like something tha has been said to be planned for awhile now.


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## Guest

nippjas said:


> Sounds like something tha has been said to be planned for awhile now.


You mean this is something that is being planned? If so, great.


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## Ron Barry

patrickthickey said:


> * is there a combination of remote keys or a MACRO I can program to toggle the output resolution of the receiver without having to plow multiple levels into the Setup menus?


I don't know of one as of yet. We have talked about it a number of times and there as been some discussion on this issue. I hope they offer it but at this time they do not.

I personally would perfer a setting in setup that allows you to set the desired output resolution given the content delivered resolution. Native would be one of the options. Offering and added toggle would be icing on the cake.

People have programmed macros to accomplish this. There are threads on this on here or at SatelliteGuys.us. I am too busy to dig them out.



patrickthickey said:


> I find it utterly lame to not have this capability when my HDTivo has it. Lack of native output may be asking for too much, I concede that issue.
> 
> But if the ability to change output exists inside the menu it potentially can be used via the remote.


hmm utterly lame? Well nice feature but I don't know if I would go as far as utterly lame. This feature is on the top of my list of enhancements I would like to see. LIke I said above, there are some threads that tell you how to do this with a macro.


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## tcshane

Cholly said:


> Before doing the digital scan, try removing your favorites.... then doing the scan. Sounds crazy, but may work. I think Jason suggested this somewhere earlier in this thread. comments, nippjas?


I just got my 811 system a couple of days ago. I had been with directv, but wanted a free built-in dvr. With my directv receiver I could get local stations in high definition by plugging in my outside receiver to the back of the box. Have not been able to do this with dishtv. I tried what you suggested above, and it didn't work for me. Is it possible to receive high definition local channels with this receiver?


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## Pils

Yes, you need to connect the antenna to the back of the 811 antenna in but do not use any other tuner. Just run antenna straight in to 811.


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## tcshane

tcshane said:


> I just got my 811 system a couple of days ago. I had been with directv, but wanted a free built-in dvr. With my directv receiver I could get local stations in high definition by plugging in my outside receiver to the back of the box. Have not been able to do this with dishtv. I tried what you suggested above, and it didn't work for me. Is it possible to receive high definition local channels with this receiver?


I have now solved this problem. The poster who said you need to remove dishtv locals from favorites before scanning was correct after all. I am now receiving locals in high definition. Thanks, guys.


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## Jason Nipp

I will be "Pruning" this thread into sub-threads in order to rightfully archive and make sense of the posts. Closing temporarily.

Jason


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