# Any word on when the limits will be removed ?



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Just curious to when the SL/TDL limits will be removed or increased if ever.

Any word ?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The word is they are still working on it... 
They know the need is there to increase both of the limits... but they need to do it without effecting the rest of the system.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I guess he was hoping to hear something different than what we knew eight months ago.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

"increase both of the limits" or eliminate both of the limits?

I have only 2 SL's set up on my R15, and that puts about 50 items in the ToDo list. I am afraid of adding any more SL's or autorecords because it may push me to the limit (and I am also afraid of the systemic breakdowns others have seen when they hit the limits).

DirecTV promised that the R15 would allow you to "Automatically record every episode of your favorite shows". In order to do that, the R15 would need to allow me to set up Series Links and Autorecords for all my favorite shows. My ToDo list could easily exceed 400 entries (especially when I add Autorecords).


----------



## gimme5 (Jan 28, 2006)

Upstream said:


> "increase both of the limits" or eliminate both of the limits?
> 
> I have only 2 SL's set up on my R15, and that puts about 50 items in the ToDo list. I am afraid of adding any more SL's or autorecords because it may push me to the limit (and I am also afraid of the systemic breakdowns others have seen when they hit the limits).
> 
> DirecTV promised that the R15 would allow you to "Automatically record every episode of your favorite shows". In order to do that, the R15 would need to allow me to set up Series Links and Autorecords for all my favorite shows. My ToDo list could easily exceed 400 entries (especially when I add Autorecords).


No, go ahead and add SL's you have 2 SL's and 50 items, if you have 6 SL's you're not gonna hit 150 items in the TDL. The R15 somehow manages the TDL to try to keep the number of items under 100.

I have maybe 15-20 SLs, I've never hit the 100 limit. Just try it.

edit: I have 34 SLs (not all shows are active) my TDL says there are 92 shows scheduled to record.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I realize the R-15 is new but it has a faster processor and more memory than the DirecTiVos and the DirecTiVos are unlimited. I have had 130+ SP's and approx. 400+ items in the TDL.

It doesnt have dual buffers so I would "assume":sure: that would give it even more extra processing power over the DirecTiVos as they need to constantly decode and record two streams.

I still wonder why after all these months the R-15 is not more responsive and all the features are not enabled and working properly (showcases, VOD, CallerID, etc...).

I am not a TiVo person but "how come" every DVR that I have used or read about that is not a TiVo has so many problems ? Kinda makes me wonder why someone has not bought them yet or more license their technology.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

gimme5 said:


> No, go ahead and add SL's you have 2 SL's and 50 items, if you have 6 SL's you're not gonna hit 150 items in the TDL. The R15 somehow manages the TDL to try to keep the number of items under 100.
> 
> I have maybe 15-20 SLs, I've never hit the 100 limit. Just try it.
> 
> edit: I have 34 SLs (not all shows are active) my TDL says there are 92 shows scheduled to record.


I really do see why everyone has a problem with the todo list limit... Is there something I'm missing?

Has anyone stopped to think that this todo list covers 2 whole weeks and that when something is recorded another recording is added to the todo list to take it's place that is 2 weeks out?

You don't miss anything by having the limit even if all the recordings on the todo list take place the same day because the next recording is always added to the end of the todo list.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I realize the R-15 is new but it has a faster processor and more memory than the DirecTiVos and the DirecTiVos are unlimited. I have had 130+ SP's and approx. 400+ items in the TDL.
> 
> It doesnt have dual buffers so I would "assume":sure: that would give it even more extra processing power over the DirecTiVos as they need to constantly decode and record two streams.
> 
> ...


The underlying design of any application can negate increased processor power and memory very easily. The R15 stores the guide data in memory, Tivos store the guide data in an object oriented database. The R15 stores the TDL and SLs in what appear to be flat files, Tivos again store this in the database. Flat files tend to be processed sequentially while databases are processed via indexes. That can make a big difference.

Plus the R15 is using some unknown RTOS. How mature is that OS? How dependable? Tivos run Linux, no need to expand on Linux' stability.

But you make a very good point, the R15 doesn't even have all it's features activated and it can get doggy slow when lists get full.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> I really do see why everyone has a problem with the todo list limit... Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Has anyone stopped to think that this todo list covers 2 whole weeks and that when something is recorded another recording is added to the todo list to take it's place that is 2 weeks out?
> 
> You don't miss anything by having the limit even if all the recordings on the todo list take place the same day because the next recording is always added to the end of the todo list.


If your SLs contain mostly new hour long shows that air once a week you will be fine. If your SLs contain half hour shows that play multiple episodes possibly every day your TDL will be maxed out at 99 and only go out 4-5 days. I have shows like Seinfeld, South Park, local and national news broadcasts and many 1/2 hour cooking shows from Food Network. Those fill up my TDL very quickly.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> If your SLs contain mostly new hour long shows that air once a week you will be fine. If your SLs contain half hour shows that play multiple episodes possibly every day your TDL will be maxed out at 99 and only go out 4-5 days. I have shows like Seinfeld, South Park, local and national news broadcasts and many 1/2 hour cooking shows from Food Network. Those fill up my TDL very quickly.


Well still at 4 or 5 days your TDL has 4 or 5 days to add the next recordings for that SL.

The only time I see the limit coming into play is if all 99 things in your TDL are the same day but even then it's a very slim chance you'd miss something.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> Well still at 4 or 5 days your TDL has 4 or 5 days to add the next recordings for that SL.
> 
> The only time I see the limit coming into play is if all 99 things in your TDL are the same day but even then it's a very slim chance you'd miss something.


Except you cannot add anything new. If I see a show on in an hour I can add one if my TDL is at 99. Then it's at 100. I cannot add another SL or single recording without deleting something from the TDL. When you get to that point, try deleting one item from your TDL. Then race back to add your new recording. Typically you cannot as the R15 has added yet another item to your TDL so it's back to 100.

These limits are a big deal and do impact the R15. You mentioned earlier that you have 15-20 SLs. Is that correct? While the official limit of the SLs is 50, the practical limit is about 20. So if you indeed have 20 SLs are you saying you haven't run into freezes and hangs? Anytime I've hit 20 the performance of my R15 falling into the dumpper.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Except you cannot add anything new. If I see a show on in an hour I can add one if my TDL is at 99. Then it's at 100. I cannot add another SL or single recording without deleting something from the TDL. When you get to that point, try deleting one item from your TDL. Then race back to add your new recording. Typically you cannot as the R15 has added yet another item to your TDL so it's back to 100.
> 
> These limits are a big deal and do impact the R15. You mentioned earlier that you have 15-20 SLs. Is that correct? While the official limit of the SLs is 50, the practical limit is about 20. So if you indeed have 20 SLs are you saying you haven't run into freezes and hangs? Anytime I've hit 20 the performance of my R15 falling into the dumpper.


I think right now I'm at 17 SL's and not a single hang since I got the unit.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I really do see why everyone has a problem with the todo list limit... Is there something I'm missing?


Yes, what your missing is that you have to manually "delete" a show in the TDL to add another from a search or if you want to just add one from the guide. Also when the R-15 screen appears saying the TDL is full and to delete a show, its buggy and can hang often.

I have 130 SP's on my R-10 and the R-15 only allows 50. When I was using the R-15, I had to do multiple searches and manual adds so I would not miss the other 50+ SP's that I enjoy. Like you can imagine, this involves multiple multiple deleting of shows from the TDL and many hangups like I stated above.

So if your TDL is full and you happen to look in the guide and see something you want to record, you have to delete a show first before you can add one and hope the screen doesnt hang.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I think right now I'm at 17 SL's and not a single hang since I got the unit.


Just wait and start using it more.  Check my history here and I said the same thing many months ago,  then check recently and see all the problems I have had.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Just wait and start using it more.  Check my history here and I said the same thing many months ago,  then check recently and see all the problems I have had.


I have 4 DVR's and I'm the only one living here... The recording is spread out so that no one unit gets bogged down.

I have 32 SP's on one HR10-250, 36 on another, 15 SP's on my SD-DVR80 and 17 on my R15. Not all in season and not all record every day mind you.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I have 4 DVR's and I'm the only one living here...


I am too cheap to do that.  I do have 3 DVR's but only two are hooked up and I am making some changes and soon its going to just be one. Either the R-10 or R-15.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I am too cheap to do that.  I do have 3 DVR's but only two are hooked up and I am making some changes and soon its going to just be one. Either the R-10 or R-15.


There's no way I could just run with 1 DVR unless it recorded at least 4 things at once if not 6.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> There's no way I could just run with 1 DVR unless it recorded at least 4 things at once if not 6.


I second that. I only get to use 6 out of my 8 tuners (our roommate uses one of the R15's) And sometimes I needs 8 tuners.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

About the only time I need more than 2 tuners is Sunday during football season. After that ends I usually drop down to just 1 DVR.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wow I've suffered with 2 Tuners (and right now 1) for a long time. Not sure I even need more then that. Not sure there is enough stuff on that I find interesting.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

The only issues that I usally run into are on Thursday nights. Most nights I'd be ok with 2 or 3 tuners.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> The only issues that I usally run into are on Thursday nights. Most nights I'd be ok with 2 or 3 tuners.


You know come to think of it I can think of one night a week it would be good to have more then two.


----------



## laxcoach (Dec 7, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I am not a TiVo person but "how come" every DVR that I have used or read about that is not a TiVo has so many problems ? Kinda makes me wonder why someone has not bought them yet or more license their technology.


UltimateTV was 1000x faster than any Tivo I've ever used. I would say that it surpassed the Tivo in most categories of functionality. If only Microsoft sold it to someone rather than killing it.


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I have 4 DVR's and I'm the only one living here... The recording is spread out so that no one unit gets bogged down.
> 
> I have 32 SP's on one HR10-250, 36 on another, 15 SP's on my SD-DVR80 and 17 on my R15. Not all in season and not all record every day mind you.





cabanaboy1977 said:


> The only issues that I usally run into are on Thursday nights. Most nights I'd be ok with 2 or 3 tuners.


You guys never leave the house, do you?


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> You guys never leave the house, do you?


Yes I do and this gives me the freedom to leave the house.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

qwerty said:


> You guys never leave the house, do you?


Oh yeah... I'm out of the house a great deal, other than going to work, that's the point of having a DVR.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I found a workaround to the R-15's 50 SL limit for those that have been hampered by it.

Use two of them.  No, I am not joking as that is exactly what I am going to do. I ordered a 2nd R-15 thru the current zero cost promotion and plan to put it right on top of the other R-15 giving me 100 SL's now, 4 tuners and also 200 hours of recording space. This might even be better than having a single R-15 with a 100 SL limit as you have double the tuners and recording space.

If they ever do increase the SL limit, which looks  doubtful, then I can move it to another room or just return the leased one.


----------

