# Outdoor antenna problems. Need Advice.



## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

About a year ago i baught a medium uhf/vhf antenna i put it 15ft. off the ground i barely got anything. The transmitting station is about 39 miles away. Ok I thought it was to small so i got another one as big as i could get. As big as there is in residential antennas. It was worse then my small antenna. I put it 25ft. off the ground. Still not very much. Am i doing somthing wrong?


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

You don's state your location. TV signals are line of sight. If there is a mountain between you and the transmitting tower, you won't get anything.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

Mike500 said:


> You don's state your location. TV signals are line of sight. If there is a mountain between you and the transmitting tower, you won't get anything.


There is NOTHING! NOTHING at all. Thats what I don't get. I live in southern Illinois In a rural area where the tallest thing around is my three story house and the antenna is on top of it. I must be doing somthing wrong. The Question is WHAT!

Sorry I just had to vent some steam.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Are you trying to pick up analog stations, digital stations, or both? Are you using an inline amplifier? 

If you're looking for digital only, there are other factors to consider like at what power level the stations are transmitting. If they are broadcasting at very low power, 39 miles away is going to be too far most likely. If they are broadcasting at full power, you should be getting something. Antenna placement is very important. Here in Denver with our very low power signals, moving my antenna an inch horizontally or an inch vertically will cause me to lose most of my signals.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you trying to pick up analog stations, digital stations, or both? Are you using an inline amplifier?
> 
> If you're looking for digital only, there are other factors to consider like at what power level the stations are transmitting. If they are broadcasting at very low power, 39 miles away is going to be too far most likely. If they are broadcasting at full power, you should be getting something. Antenna placement is very important. Here in Denver with our very low power signals, moving my antenna an inch horizontally or an inch vertically will cause me to lose most of my signals.


I don't think the stations have switched over to digital yet. My neighbor down the road has a smaller antenna and he can get them. How high do you think it needs to be?


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

JohnGfun said:


> There is NOTHING! NOTHING at all. Thats what I don't get. I live in southern Illinois In a rural area where the tallest thing around is my three story house and the antenna is on top of it. I must be doing somthing wrong. The Question is WHAT!
> 
> Sorry I just had to vent some steam.


I feel your pain. You might want to check with one of the reputable dealers in your area or pay a few bucks to have a professional installer come out and do a site check. What make/model antenna do you have?


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

JM Anthony said:


> I feel your pain. You might want to check with one of the reputable dealers in your area or pay a few bucks to have a professional installer come out and do a site check. What make/model antenna do you have?


I don't know? I'll have to get back to you on that one. I have to go down to my basement and go through the millions of electronics boxes.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Goto these sites to get available stations:
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/
Make sure you follow the other 2 links on that page to get your longitude & latitude as well as magnetic declination to place in form.

Also check out this one & locate the market nearest you:
http://www.nab.org/newsroom/issues/digitaltv/dtvstations.asp


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Goto these sites to get available stations:
> http://www.2150.com/broadcast/
> Make sure you follow the other 2 links on that page to get your longitude & latitude as well as magnetic declination to place in form.
> 
> ...


It says i can get them and they both have a permit to change to digital. So I'm doing somthing wrong.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

have you tried another tv? are you connecting everything correctly? what kind of wire are using? you may have shorted the lead-in somewhere


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

You might check antenna web to get coorect azimuth to point antenna. Point the UHF toward the stations. You might also change the transformer on the antenna, as this is a normal weak point. If repointing, checking wire and transformer don't work you might try adding a preamp/amp


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> have you tried another tv? are you connecting everything correctly? what kind of wire are using? you may have shorted the lead-in somewhere


Checked it ALL.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

olgeezer said:


> You might check antenna web to get coorect azimuth to point antenna. Point the UHF toward the stations. You might also change the transformer on the antenna, as this is a normal weak point. If repointing, checking wire and transformer don't work you might try adding a preamp/amp


Tried The antennaweb.org. Don't know how it change Transformer. Pre amps are too much.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

you definitely have, either the two wires shorted in the lead in
or have a defective tuner in your tv 
or have the lead in incorrectly connected to your tv or antenna

because a large antenna (25 ft up) with no obstructions pointed at a tv tower 39 miles away, should have an excellent picture.

give us some specefic details of what you have 

what kind of lead in wire, how is the TV connected?? ect


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> you definitely have, either the two wires shorted in the lead in
> or have a defective tuner in your tv
> or have the lead in incorrectly connected to your tv or antenna
> 
> ...


75ohm. lead in, It's conncted through the local tv on the back of dish 301's and the 508's (tried to connect directly to tv nothing changed) It's on a three story house(plus 20 ft. more in masts) .......Let me know if you need anything else let me know.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

ok , I'm going to list all kinds of things including "silly stuff" (things that can go wrong) 
Exactly what "kind" of picture are you getting? None? Snowy? What?
What is the channel you are trying to receive? uhf or vhf?
What is the brand/model or type of antenna are you using?
How many tvs are connected to your antenna (ie using a multi-set coupler)
Are you using a 300 to 75 ohm matching transformer at the antenna?
And have you tried a new transformer(rated for uhf/vhf)?
Are you pointing the shorter element end at the station?
Are you sure that ALL of the elements are unfolded on the antenna?
(I have seen elements (not unfolded or bent) that are shorting out antenna)
Do you have a "ohm meter"? If so check the 75 lead-in to make sure it isn't shorted.
(I've seen shorted connectors or staples shorting out the lead-in)
Do you use your "Dish receiver" on rf of tv? (ie channel 3/4 ?) Does it look ok on 3/4?)
That's all for now, these questions (although some sound elementary) will help "us"
solve your "poor antenna reception" question.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> ok , I'm going to list all kinds of things including "silly stuff" (things that can go wrong)
> Exactly what "kind" of picture are you getting? None? Snowy? What?
> What is the channel you are trying to receive? uhf or vhf?
> What is the brand/model or type of antenna are you using?
> ...


Snowy picture
Both uhf vhf
Channel Master "Digital Ready" UHF/VHF/FM Antenna (not sure what model# but it is their biggest one)
1 tv
What is a transformer?
Shorter Elements toward towers
All elements are out none are bent
Don't have an ohm meter. Did not use staples.
It Can't tell if it looks good on 3/4. all I get is snow.

Thanks just let me know.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

a "matching transformer" also called the "Outdoor Balun Kit" allows the antenna to be connected directly to a 75 ohm coax cable. Antennas are usually 300 ohm and must have one of these to "match" the impeadance to the 75 ohm lead in. (it could be bad)

Was asking about how do you "connect" your Dish receiver to your tv.

If you watch your Dish on channel 3 or 4 of your TV, is Dish picture clear ?


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> a "matching transformer" also called the "Outdoor Balun Kit" allows the antenna to be connected directly to a 75 ohm coax cable. Antennas are usually 300 ohm and must have one of these to "match" the impeadance to the 75 ohm lead in. (it could be bad)
> 
> Was asking about how do you "connect" your Dish receiver to your tv.
> 
> If you watch your Dish on channel 3 or 4 of your TV, is Dish picture clear ?


Oh Balun, i replaced it.
I connect my receiver through coax
The picture is clear on 3 and 4

sorry bout that.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Does that solve the problem, John? If so, we'll send you our bill.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

Have you actually seen your neighbors reception? (is it good?)
Have you tried a different tv with antenna? (any other tv to verify problem is antenna)
Have you tried using a compass to verify the direction to tower?
Have tried turning the antenna while watching result on tv? (peaked it)
What channel number are you trying to get?
Exactly what city is the channel from and where are you located? 
(have you used a map to measure distance?)
What model is the antenna? 
(http://www.channelmaster.com click on products to find the model of your antenna)


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

Nick said:


> Does that solve the problem, John? If so, we'll send you our bill.


HaHa. Aren't we quite the thread comedian. (hehe) :hurah:


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> Have you actually seen your neighbors reception? (is it good?)
> Have you tried a different tv with antenna? (any other tv to verify problem is antenna)
> Have you tried using a compass to verify the direction to tower?
> Have tried turning the antenna while watching result on tv? (peaked it)
> ...


Neighbors reception is great.
Tried 5 diffrernt tv's.(two gateway plasma's, two gateway lcd, and an orion tv.
Used compass
Turned it while someone watching
Channels from Terre Haute,IN I live in Lawrenceville, IL Channels# 2 & 10
Channel Master Advantage 3020 (biggest I could find around here in my stores)

Thanks for all of your time on this!


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

WTWO TV 2 (100,000 watts) transmitter are located on US 41 South in Farmersburg, Indiana, approximately 11 miles south of Terre Haute.

WTHI TV 10 (316,000 watts) transmitter located about 16 miles south of Terre Haute, Indiana on highway US 41.

info on Central Indiana's TV Information Page:
http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe25/dtv.html

with that antenna and no farther then these (and others) channels are away from you,
I suspect have something shorted on your lead-in.

a common problem I have seen is that "uhf loops" (above where the "balun" attaches)
IS left UNFOLDED, this will GREATLY affect reception.
MAKE SURE these "loops" are unfolded.
another possibility is the "cross feeds" (look like X's back and forth) on the top of the antenna are "shorted" to the "the mount" of the antenna.
another possibility is the coax "connector" (or ends) OR the lead itself is shorted
there must NOT be touching of the outside "braid" to the center conductor ANYWHERE
Also the VHF part of this "type" of antenna is "fairly directional" (can't be off very far on direction for best signal)
you might want to get a "cheap" ohm meter at walmart or radio shack (where ever)
to verify the lead-in is NOT shorted.
that's all I can think of for now


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> WTWO TV 2 (100,000 watts) transmitter are located on US 41 South in Farmersburg, Indiana, approximately 11 miles south of Terre Haute.
> 
> WTHI TV 10 (316,000 watts) transmitter located about 16 miles south of Terre Haute, Indiana on highway US 41.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks! Let me try some of them and i'll get bact to you.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

one other thing I thought of is this:
sometimes "at the ends where the connectors are" the center wire of a coax may not be long enough to connect properly. when you unscrew the connectors, make sure the center conductor is reaching the far enough into the balun or wherever there's a connection. this probelm would be the opposite of a short, it would be an open.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> one other thing I thought of is this:
> sometimes "at the ends where the connectors are" the center wire of a coax may not be long enough to connect properly. when you unscrew the connectors, make sure the center conductor is reaching the far enough into the balun or wherever there's a connection. this probelm would be the opposite of a short, it would be an open.


I don't think it should be. I redid all of the connections. I have someone comming out next wed. to test it. (cost me $200!) I'll let you know.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

hey John,
did you have your antenna checked?
what did you find?


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> hey John,
> did you have your antenna checked?
> what did you find?


He Said I can't get them. Oh well. Now this means i can get them through Dish!

Thanks! For All Of Your Help!


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