# What is the 921 worth?



## chewey (Jul 28, 2004)

What are everyone's predictions on the market price of the 921 after the 942 comes out?

If the 942 comes out with a $250 lease fee plus a $10 dvr fee, won't that make the 921 a little more attactive? I tend to think that the 921 might retain it's value somewhat once they are unavailable. If the only option to get a hd-dvr is to pay a $250 lease fee or $750 to own, plus a $10 dvr fee, the 921 might look like a good deal.

I got a 921 for $480 at Costco. It worked great until the recent software upgrade, then it took a dump on me. Luckily I got it at Costco so returing it wasn't a problem

Now I am debating whether to go back and get another. "Deadwood" started up again on HBO and it is killing me not being able to record it. I don't know whether to wait a while for the 942 or go back to Costco and getone of the last 921's.

What would you all do?


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Depends... will the 921 be working by then?


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## chewey (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm sort of inclined to give the 921 another shot. As long as I get it from Costco, I can always return it.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Right now, the 921 is worth exactly $0.00. It can't reliably record a thing. It's value is zero. It's useless. It's actually got a negative value when you consider the aggravation it causes.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

So far, mine is worth the $200 that I paid for it - First time sub


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## chewey (Jul 28, 2004)

OK, what if, and this is a big if, but what if Dish somehow got the software to point to where the 921 worked as expected. Then what would it be worth?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

chewey said:


> OK, what if, and this is a big if, but what if Dish somehow got the software to point to where the 921 worked as expected. Then what would it be worth?


It really depends. If you find a sucker that doesn't know of the 921's history, you could get a few hundred for it. But only a complete idiot would spend a dime on this piece of crap if he knew it's history.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Fortunately, not everyone is having as bad a time with the 921 as Jerry, Simon and a few others are. For most of us, the 921 records 99% of what we want it to, and other than the occasional ZSR and forced stretch, works pretty well. That said, if the remaining bugs get worked out, it'll probably be worth something around that few hundred dollars range, if for nothing else than a 180 hour dual tuner SD DVR.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"What would you all do?"_

Seriously, I would jump ship to DirecTV and go with the HDTIVO. If more HDTV is what you want then consider holding the 921 until the VOOM DVR is out and evaluated and then make the switch to VOOM if their DVR proves capable. ( Also be aware that VOOM's future is not solid at this time)
While the latest L212 has fixed both of my problems that L211 broke, I still know the value of my time. When I want to sit down and watch a program that came on at another time, the HDTIVO has never, yes, I mean NEVER failed to record and play back that program for me as anticipated. I don't even have to worry about the network switching the air time because it has Season Pass (NBR) something E* has said will NOT be in the 921, ever. In a single word, the HDTIVO is dependable. The 921 is not. The 921 was great when it was the best and only thing out there. But when the competition became available and the Eldon Team failed to fix the fundamental relaibility of the 921, there is no logical reason that would allow one to choose the 921. Using and having both, I know the track record for the past 9 months.

The second choice, assuming you have some other reason you have to remain with E* and the competition is out of the question or just not an option, then for Time shifting alternative you may consider the 169Time modification to a Dish6000 receiver and a DVHS VCR. I Have this too but I can assure you that the 921, even in it;s present unreliable state for most users, is far superior for timeshifting than a DVHS solution. Stick with it! If you have to remain with E* then the 921 is your best hope. The others, 942 may be worth the wait but personally (and that was the question, what I would do) I feel the 942 is a consumer rip off product because E* has already said it will be more expensive than the current 921 and it will have a short lifespan due to the HDTV format change. The only reason anyone would choose to go with the 942 is if they can't buy a 921 as in not available, and also can't wait for the mpeg4 DVR to appear on the market.

The nice thing about today is there are some clear choices / alternatives today for anyone who is not prejudice and looks at what's available and will work for their needs. You have plenty of options and you just need to define your requirements.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Fortunately, not everyone is having as bad a time with the 921 as Jerry, Simon and a few others are. For most of us, the 921 records 99% of what we want it to, and other than the occasional ZSR and forced stretch, works pretty well. That said, if the remaining bugs get worked out, it'll probably be worth something around that few hundred dollars range, if for nothing else than a 180 hour dual tuner SD DVR.


So, are you saying that most people are able to record two programs at the same time or two consecutive programs, with or without altering the default padding? This is something that fails for me most of the time. And my box is a new replacement 921 that I just got a few weeks ago because of the sudden appearance of frequent ZSRs with my previous box.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jerry - I successfully record 2 consecutive programs every night of the week, and 4 out of 7 nights, record 3 consecutive programs. OTA, Sat HD and Sat SD are all covered. At last count, I record 56 events a week with my 921. About 40 of them are test cases, most having to do with the ZSR testing. I check them every night and every morning.

The _only_ recordings that fail for me are when 2 Sat HD times fire simultaneously. That always produces a ZSR on the 2nd timer. Every other recording succeeds.

I don't touch the padding. I don't edit the timers (other than for test purposes). And everything records the way its supposed to. That's why I think you have something wrong with your box.


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## nuts4scuba (Jan 11, 2003)

I don't have a problem record 2 shows at the same time. I usually have one set to record 1 minute early and the other at the top of the hour. I haven't had any problems with back to back recordings in the past month. I think the biggest problem with the 921 will be the same with the 942. Only 1 OTA tuner. E* should have put 2 OTA's in these boxes.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Jerry - I successfully record 2 consecutive programs every night of the week, and 4 out of 7 nights, record 3 consecutive programs. OTA, Sat HD and Sat SD are all covered. At last count, I record 56 events a week with my 921. About 40 of them are test cases, most having to do with the ZSR testing. I check them every night and every morning.
> 
> The _only_ recordings that fail for me are when 2 Sat HD times fire simultaneously. That always produces a ZSR on the 2nd timer. Every other recording succeeds.
> 
> I don't touch the padding. I don't edit the timers (other than for test purposes). And everything records the way its supposed to. That's why I think you have something wrong with your box.


Thanks for the reply. I'm certainly getting timer failures under the same circumstances that work for you. I emailed you earlier with my contact information. I'll be willing to try one more box (but so far two 921s in a row have performed miserably--one that I had for a while and all of a sudden started to develop failed recordings, and then the recent replacement box that had problems from the first day I got it. And I do reboot it and it doesn't fix the zsr or failed timers.

I just wish there was some way Dish could check out the 921 it will send me and be sure it's one of the "good" ones.

Jerry


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## henderson (Jul 6, 2004)

I agree with Mark, I record two shows 3 or 4 nights a week and rarely have any problems with timers firing. I have seen some of the reported bugs such as not being able to delete programs when recording 2 programs but nothing that makes me want to throw the box in the lake. Mine works the way it is supposed to 99% of the time. My only big beef is that NBR has been shelved for the 921, as an ex-TIVO user who got used to those benefits I am really not happy about that. However, my box is stable and I love the disk space....


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

The only timer issues I have are related to OTA signal failure causing ZSR. On Mondays, I have a number of timers going on a weekly basis that have only failed once because it couldn't lock the OTA channel (get some weak signals on cloudy evenings). Be it OTA-HD, SD or SAT-HD, works like a champ.... Don't really have a time where I record 2 SAT-HD channels at the same time, so that ZSR bug doesn't affect me.

As with Mark, I don't touch the paddings either.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

The large variation in the number of ZSRs and other serious problems that 921 owners are experiencing suggests quality control issues or a hardware design that is component sensitive. If the processor is being overclocked, or if the memory is being accessed at or beyond its rated speed, units would vary all over the place in terms of performance (and the ability to keep up with the data stream), depending on the components in a particular unit. 

I wonder if the hardware (or the bios) in the 921 had to be "tweaked" to get it to handle the hd data streams.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

$3.50


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## RobbyG (Dec 28, 2004)

Hey...a new Maxtor 250gig drive is about 150- 170 bucks, so at least 100 used :lol:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark, I've been meaning to ask you this for some time now-
When you make claims as you did above, are you using the same L212 the rest of us are in a separate 921 or do you still have just one 921 and it is actually running beta version post L212? I think you understand where I'm headded with this.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I have one 921, and I never saw a software version called L212. But, I've been doing these recording tests since long before you guys got 212. I don't have the physical space for another 921 next to my TV, or an available input for it, even if I did have the space...


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

Well here's my .02 worth. I paid $300 up front to Dish for a 921 and two 301's. All I have to do is stay subscribed for a year and it's all mine. I suppose it's sort of a lease to own plan. My box has worked almost perfectly. I've never done a power cord reboot except when we had a power failure at the house one night. I've only had to do 2 or 3 soft reboots due to freezing up. It's worked far better than a Windows based PC  

Having said all that there's no way I would sell my 921 for a measely $300. :nono2: 

Apparently I got one of the good ones and I ain't parting with it.


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## Tomos (Jan 16, 2005)

ntexasdude said:


> Well here's my .02 worth. I paid $300 up front to Dish for a 921 and two 301's. All I have to do is stay subscribed for a year and it's all mine. I suppose it's sort of a lease to own plan. My box has worked almost perfectly. I've never done a power cord reboot except when we had a power failure at the house one night. I've only had to do 2 or 3 soft reboots due to freezing up. It's worked far better than a Windows based PC
> 
> Having said all that there's no way I would sell my 921 for a measely $300. :nono2:
> 
> Apparently I got one of the good ones and I ain't parting with it.


Same here, our unit has not been too bad at all so far.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"I have one 921, and I never saw a software version called L212."_

If that's the case then what is and was on your 921 is not what the rest of us use so it may be reasonable to suspect you could not see the problems and issues that so many others are seeing. Your admittance to the question speaks to the problem that we are seeing in the administration of the beta test program.

I once was a beta tester for a product called Panello which was a code name for a well known 3D animation accessory / plugin software back in the mid 90's. When we (beta testers) did the final approval of the software for ready to market, what we tested was _exactly_ what the public was to get. The final product even had the same version number and everything that the release version was. 3D Studio didn't use code names but we always tested the same version as what the public got. I don't ever recall being on a beta test team where the beta test version was not what was released. If there was a name change as in the case of Panello, the final version we got was nothing more than the same version with the name change in the titles.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

Now that I added 35' of DVI cable and shoved it in the closet, the noise is ALMOST bearable. I love the features of the 921 - yeah, there are some bugs, but when is the last time you saw a flawless DOS or Windows system?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Don - for what it's worth, this was the FIRST time that we didn't see the release version at least 2 days before it was sent out. The thing about this one is, though, that it wouldn't have mattered because this one was sent only to correct the jitter (which it does in most circumstances) and to correct the preview window graphics problems. There wasn't anything in this release to deal with the ZSRs or the wiped hard drives that were both introduced in L211. As you'll recall, I was pretty surprised that it went out before we saw it. The only difference between L212 and the last version that we saw, though, was the name.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

Mark - it did correct the HD preview window for me. It wasn't a major problem, but it is good to know they are still working on the 921. Kudos.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Oh yeah...I wish I could show you guys the current list of fixes in L213 that we have... The 921 is VERY actively being worked on. (I was up until past 2am this morning talking to the guys at Eldon who had gotton in early this morning.)


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Fortunately, not everyone is having as bad a time with the 921 as Jerry, Simon and a few others are. For most of us, the 921 records 99% of what we want it to, and other than the occasional ZSR and forced stretch, works pretty well. That said, if the remaining bugs get worked out, it'll probably be worth something around that few hundred dollars range, if for nothing else than a 180 hour dual tuner SD DVR.


Amen, brutha. A big ole' ditto from me to that.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Of course, you notice that I say the above, and then 3 days later I lose all the events on my drive...  Oh well...


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Yikes. The evil mojo that the poor souls who HAVE had major problems finally hit you. I'm probably next on the list for them wishing for me to get my comeuppence for daring to say good things about the unit.

The only time I have problems is occasionally during the Smallville recordings on HD Net (Two on Thursdays.... it hits me anbout once every 3 months) and at 9pm on Weds. when I try to record Alias in SD on ABC and King of Queens on CBS HD. The King of Queens timer misfores about once a month. All of my SD timers are rock solid and have never failed, except for a few times when I lost 3 minutes due to a reboot after a freeze up (rare happens about once every three months).


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