# BUG REPORT L184: 0 second recording



## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Mark,

I just had my 2nd 0 second recording. It was a M-F OTA timer set for Fox's 'On Air With Ryan Seacrest' show today from 3:00pm-4:00pm. It was set first as a satellite timer and then edited to be an OTA timer. It has the default timer paddings.

Can you start documenting a list of these 0 second recordings and giving them to Eldon. There is another thread where I mentioned the first 0 second recording that I had and others are still having this problem as well. This is a MAJOR bug that should get top priority as far as fixes go because it doesn't get any worse than missing an entire timer event!

Thanks.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jason, I just set up an almost identical timer, the same way that you defined yours. The only difference with mine is that I have a M-F timer set to record an hour earlier already. I'll see if I get any 0 second recordings.

The timer issues are definitely at the top of the list right next to the OTA issues. This one isn't being ignored, or de-prioritized.


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## jgerow (Apr 12, 2004)

For another test Mark, try timing with a "de-tuned" off-air antenna. (i.e. with weak/multipath signal and see if it gives you a 0 second recording).

The only time I've had an OTA timer failure is when I forgot to re-position my off-air antenna. (Note: I use daily and weekly OTA timers; my 921 is from the time of the Model 5000 modulator trade-in. [i.e. "held until blue line fix, installed"]; I've have to accomodate "previous-generation" STBs that are very sensitive to OTA multipath.)

Wish I could be more help, but the 921 has really been working very well for me.

---
Feature Request: It would be nice if the 921 could "IR-blast" the physical channel number to the antenna rotor remote. [It appears it would need to be done a few minutes in advance so the antenna would be able to move before trying to tune to the OTA channel -- since weak/multipath signals appear to "abort" a timer session.)


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

jgerow said:


> For another test Mark, try timing with a "de-tuned" off-air antenna. (i.e. with weak/multipath signal and see if it gives you a 0 second recording).
> 
> The only time I've had an OTA timer failure is when I forgot to re-position my off-air antenna. (Note: I use daily and weekly OTA timers; my 921 is from the time of the Model 5000 modulator trade-in. [i.e. "held until blue line fix, installed"]; I've have to accomodate "previous-generation" STBs that are very sensitive to OTA multipath.)
> 
> ...


My 0 second recording problem has nothing to do with the satellite or OTA signal strength. Both signal strengths are at least 110+.


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## jgerow (Apr 12, 2004)

Jason said:


> My 0 second recording problem has nothing to do with the satellite or OTA signal strength. Both signal strengths are at least 110+.


For DTV, it isn't signal quantity, it's signal quality -- both as transmitted [e.g. PSIP issues] as well as received [multipath/interference issues].

The idea is to get the scenario that Mark can reproduce and file an official report.

=== brief aside for defect report reporting ..
I had to go through the "checklist" Q&A several times with advanced tech support in trying to get the Model 6000's 8VSB module "up to snuff." 
I suspect it's gotten more formal and Mark will have to "fill-out" the defect forms answering questions such as: 
Was the 921 "cold booted" after the L184 download and the timers reset?
Are the satellite timers ok?
Does the OTA timer problem happened for other channels?
Are there any issues when viewing the OTA channel "live"?
What is the OTA signal strength?
Does the OTA channel transmit guide information?
What are the call letters/locations of the OTA channel(s)?
...

And I'm sure Mark is also going to be asked the severity and effect of the defect. Something along the lines: "All the users, all the time", "Some users, all the time", "All users, some of the time", down to "Few users, rarely". [Yes its a pain to do. Thanks Mark for all your efforts!]
===== end of aside ==

If you have a steady 110+ reading for the OTA channel being recorded, _when the timer fires_ thats great. Oscillations, say 110 to 105 to 110, could indicate multipath [which is my nemisis], so please make a lote of it. 
[Just wish the tuning meters reported signal strength and signal quality on separate bars.]

Since most 921 owners aren't having OTA timer issues, its time to take your experiences along with others having a problem and see if there is a common scenario.

If your mis-firing timer is only one station, and it appears you have plenty of signal, it's time to check if other STBs are also having issues with the station (or network even; e.g. the Fox 720p conversion effort). For PSIP issues, a quick check to the HDTV Locals on the AVS Forum (search for the call letters of the station that gives you problems, as well as its network affiliation). The Samsung T-165 STB is notorious for hanging/clock problems because of bad PSIP data and several users have posted problems there. Also calling/sending email to the stations engineering department stating your receiver model (and manufacturer's technical support contact info) has brought results.

--- bottom line...
The point is to try and isolate the problem to what is causing the 921 grief, so the engineers can then track down the problem and fix it. All clues gratefully appreciated.
--

In another thread, Simple Simon is advocating doing a cold reset and re-program of the timers. Does that work for you?
What else can you about the "0 second OTA recordings" Jason?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jgerow - you are very close to what I do, and to the questions that I answer all of the time... (the lists that I go through are more extensive most of the time, but that's definitely gives a pretty good idea).


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

I had yet another 0 second recording yesterday. The timer was once again a M-F OTA timer set for Fox's 'On Air With Ryan Seacrest' show from 3:00pm-4:00pm. It was set first as a satellite timer and then edited to be an OTA timer. It has the default timer paddings.

From that point yesterday, the 921 only went downhill from there. I did a power button reboot hoping to get it back to normal. However, I had another one-time OTA timer set for Fox's 'North Shore' from 8-9pm. It was also set first as a satellite timer and then edited to be an OTA timer. It also had the default timer paddings. About 5 minutes after the show had started I went into my DVR menu to verify that it was recording. I clicked on 'Start Over' to see if it recorded from the beginning and it would not work. It then gave me that generic error message saying that the event could not be viewed. I then stopped the initial recording and did a manual record event. I tried checking the status of that recording and it froze and rebooted. When it came back up, I decided to try recording different OTA channels to see if it was just Fox that was having the problem. I tried 2 other networks and those OTA events showed 0 second recordings as well. 

I then had to delete all of my timers that I had set and do a power cord reboot. Since then it has worked. I will report back when the dreaded 0 second bug strikes again!

Mark,

Can you make sure that Eldon is aware of this problem and are testing for it?

Thanks.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

They're aware. And for the record, my M-F recording of On Air that I set up last week for you recorded just fine yesterday. :shrug:

For now, I'd recommend NOT defining OTA timers via guide and then editing channels, but doing it manually (Menu-7-Create).


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> They're aware. And for the record, my M-F recording of On Air that I set up last week for you recorded just fine yesterday. :shrug:
> 
> For now, I'd recommend NOT defining OTA timers via guide and then editing channels, but doing it manually (Menu-7-Create).


Was your 'On Air' timer set up manually or was it edited like mine?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

It was edited, just like you set your up. The only difference is that my padding options are different because I also have a M-F timer recording the hour before On Air is on.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

I had another 0 second recording yesterday. The timer was once again a M-F OTA timer set for Fox's 'On Air With Ryan Seacrest' show from 3:00pm-4:00pm. It was set first as a satellite timer and then edited to be an OTA timer. It has the default timer paddings.

I deleted the original timer and set up a manual one so I'll see if that makes a difference later today.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Mine recorded fine yesterday, although my 3-4 timer right before it did not record. But, that's another bug.

Jason - where are you? What station is your Fox station? If you could provide contact information for the engineering department, that would be helpful as well. I think that some of the 0 second recording problems are because of something non-standard in the broadcast from the stations.


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## smooth28la (Oct 7, 2002)

I have a daily 9-10pm recording setup to record an non-HD OTA channel in Los Angeles.. subchannel #2 (KSCI Digital 61-2)

Ever since the curret software was downloaded, it has been consistently 0 second recording.

Last time I was in front of the 921 when it was recording. I was able to choose the event and start watching from the beginning of the recording BUT after the recording was gone.. it reverted back to 0 second!


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that some of the 0 second recording problems are because of something non-standard in the broadcast from the stations.


The manual OTA timer for 'On Air' didn't fire again yesterday. So I was playing around with the OTA yesterday and noticed that my FOX OTA channel would always get 0 second recordings now! Everytime I did a manual record event of the channel and stopped the recording, it always showed 0 seconds. As I stated, I did successfully record OTA off this Fox station in the past. So I'm not sure what happened to change it. My other OTA channels seem to record without any problems.

This weekend, I am going to delete all of my OTA stations and rescan them. Then I will do another power cord reboot and I'll see if that helps at all. Any other suggestions on how to fix this problem?


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

The wifes weekly OTA for 13-01 did not work yesterday, time is 11am to 12pm. The system was on, though I turn it off . Evidently it did a reboot and I only got a 0 sec recording. Deleted timer and recreated,, will see what happens today. I had done a power plug reboot on Monday because one of my OTA's was no longer available,, the reboot took care of that and I did get a sd recording last night. Wife wants to toss 921 but I am still hoping.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

I too can no longer record OTA Fox in SF Bay (KTVU). Either manual or timer results in a 0 second recording. I tried plug-out reboot, and then deleting and re-adding the channel, makes no difference. I used to be able to record KTVU OTA no problem.

Cheers,
-Keith


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

For those of you with Fox recording problems, please try to find out (either from the Local HDTV forum at AVSForums or by contacting your station engineers) if your stations very recently just converted to 720p broadcasting. A lot of Fox stations are in the middle of converting from broadcasting 480p to broadcasting 720p. If other stations are similar to what happened in Denver when we converted, all new equipment is being installed, and a significant amount of time was required to tweak everything to make it work right.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

keitheva said:


> I too can no longer record OTA Fox in SF Bay (KTVU). Either manual or timer results in a 0 second recording. I tried plug-out reboot, and then deleting and re-adding the channel, makes no difference. I used to be able to record KTVU OTA no problem.


I think that happened to me too. I had a timer set to record '24' a while back, and it was still scheduled to record whatever is showing now. I got my first 0 recording ever. It is the same station, Fox channel 2, KTVU (9-10pm Tuesday evenings, weekly recording). I setup the timer by going to the local channels from the satellite guide, selecting the time slot, then editing the timer by changing the station to the OTA channel.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Redster said:


> The wifes weekly OTA for 13-01 did not work yesterday, time is 11am to 12pm. The system was on, though I turn it off . Evidently it did a reboot and I only got a 0 sec recording. Deleted timer and recreated,, will see what happens today. I had done a power plug reboot on Monday because one of my OTA's was no longer available,, the reboot took care of that and I did get a sd recording last night. Wife wants to toss 921 but I am still hoping.


Just an update. The power cord reboot didnt fix the OTA timer. Still had a 0 second recording yesterday. Went through the whole speeel last night. Deleted all timers, deleted all OTA channels, deleted all recordings, power cord reboot for 10 mins. Rescanned and readded OTA's, then did a soft reboot, checked each OTA to make sure it was there. Recreated timers through menu, opt. 7, exited menu, went back in and padded OTA timers to 0 and 0. Then recreated Sat timers through guide by forwarding to the show, leaving default padding. Will see what happens today. Have I missed any steps ?


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I don't have any OTA channels hooked up and I get about 2 or 3 0 sec. recordings a month. They usually happen on CBS-HD and HDNet although a few have hit me on HBO-HD and SHO-HD. They only happen on HD channels.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

again a 0 sec recording on OTA. SD program did record. I covered my bets and recorded both stations for her soap. My butt is saved but seems like I cant trust my timers anymore.


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