# L3.57 software experiences/bugs



## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

My 622 started receiveing new software at about 02:30 PDT. Hope this fixes the video stuttering problem.


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## elbyj (Jan 9, 2003)

Noticed the update this morning when I got up at 03:30 AM. Now what changes are we supposed to see on the 622?


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

New software this AM.  How could I tell? My manual timer for daily at 6:40AM did not fire!  :nono2: And it does not appear on the "Daily Schedule" listing either, not even as a skipped event. It does appear however, in the timers listing. Perhaps this is a one time bug. We'll see........


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok.. My HDMI on one of my sets stopped working last week. Have L3.57 this morning and so far my HDMI is still no functioning. I did a power cord reboot and still not seeing it. Need to make sure My HDMI cable is still plugged in, but figured I would report it. is Anyone getting their HDMI to come back to life?


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Ok.. My HDMI on one of my sets stopped working last week. Have L3.57 this morning and so far my HDMI is still no functioning. I did a power cord reboot and still not seeing it. Need to make sure My HDMI cable is still plugged in, but figured I would report it. is Anyone getting their HDMI to come back to life?


It seems that more times than not in the morning I have to turn my system on twice. The first time I turn it on I get sound but no picture. The second time I'll get both pic and sound. Dish tells me this is part of the HDMI problem they are having with certian TV's (mine is a Sony).


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## mitch672 (Feb 28, 2006)

HDMI still no go with 3.57, nice work Dish


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Still dead.. 

In Princess Bride speak....

Is it now "Mostly Dead"? I switched to Component Video cables, but I have to keep swapping out the cables when I want to use my DVD Recorder. A REAL Pain in the tookus.... FIX IT ALREADY!!!!!

Remember the good ole days when we use to marvel at the wonderful things the E* engineers came up with 7 years ago? If this were a game of draw poker, I'd throw all five back and try my luck with 5 new cards... WHY are they incapable of making a stable HD PVR receiver?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok guys before this turns into a rock throwing thread that has to be cleaned up, we have not received the release notes and therefore we are not sure what this release is.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

On my version "A" the channel lock still has corruption (like I figured it would). I use HDMI to DVI with standard audio input/output. It lost audio on all channels, power button reboot fixed it. 

On all 622's, the Error 739 screen pops up for lost OTA signals and now when changing to a channel where the signal is present the Error screen remains for seconds before disappearing.

The reverberation of audio when skipping back or forward seems fixed?

I don't know if the 622 did this before, but if I pause and then press the forward or backward button it goes x1/15, x1/4 in slow motion in forward and x1/4, x1 backward in slow motion.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

But I'm assuming we will be pining for L3.58 to fix the HDMI output problem....


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Can the HDMI problem be a manufacturing problem. Hdmi groups claims that the problem with handshake between two HDMI devices is due to an improper firmware by the manufacture. If this is true their is nothing DISH can do to fix the problem.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> Can the HDMI problem be a manufacturing problem. Hdmi groups claims that the problem with handshake between two HDMI devices is due to an improper firmware by the manufacture. If this is true their is nothing DISH can do to fix the problem.


My 622 works fine with HDMI cable(regardless of S/W version). Apparently there must be some incompatability with some displays.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well tom not sure if that makes sense given that it worked and then stopped working without a software update. However, maybe a stream change caused it. Hard to say.


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## mitch672 (Feb 28, 2006)

What Dish likely did with L.356 and has continued with L3.57 is ENABLE HDCP compliance, which from what I understand is just a bit switch on the chip.. this is what has likely cause the problem. Until they turn it off (not likely BTW), these problems will persist. Yes, some displays have HDMI compliance issues, however, since the problems is so widespread, I would suggest they just turn it off for now.. Even though copyright holders would probably be against this idea 

BTW, both my Vizio P42HDTV on the 211 and the JVC P70R1U HD-ILA set on the 622 BOTH have the HDMI issue. It makes me really very happy to have my new $5,000 1080 set working via component video cables...

Mitch


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## welchwarlock (Jan 5, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> Can the HDMI problem be a manufacturing problem. Hdmi groups claims that the problem with handshake between two HDMI devices is due to an improper firmware by the manufacture. If this is true their is nothing DISH can do to fix the problem.


My HDMI died 2 weeks ago, Dish blamed it on their own software, I played CSR roulette until I got them to send me a new unit...the new unit did not have any problems. I suspect that at least some of the problems are hardware.

WW


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

tomcrown1 said:


> Can the HDMI problem be a manufacturing problem. Hdmi groups claims that the problem with handshake between two HDMI devices is due to an improper firmware by the manufacture. If this is true their is nothing DISH can do to fix the problem.


In my case, using the same HDMI cables on the same set, the 942 worked flawlessly for six-months via HDMI. The 622 worked fine also using same cable and same TV - for nine days - and then the HDMI output no longer worked.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

mitch672 said:


> What Dish likely did with L.356 and has continued with L3.57 is ENABLE HDCP compliance, which from what I understand is just a bit switch on the chip.. this is what has likely cause the problem. Until they turn it off (not likely BTW), these problems will persist. Yes, some displays have HDMI compliance issues, however, since the problems is so widespread, I would suggest they just turn it off for now.. Even though copyright holders would probably be against this idea
> 
> BTW, both my Vizio P42HDTV on the 211 and the JVC P70R1U HD-ILA set on the 622 BOTH have the HDMI issue. It makes me really very happy to have my new $5,000 1080 set working via component video cables...
> 
> Mitch


Whether DVI or HDMI, HDCP has been enabled for quite awhile by Dish. My TV has a HDCP compliant DVI interface and I have no problem with the 622. I suspect this is a HDMI handshake issue as HDMI can communicate both directions and if Dish's receiver doesn't like what it gets back after polling the interface it apparently disables the interface.
Note: This is my speculation on this issue, I have few facts to back it up...


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

A reboot of my TV (unplug power-wait-plug in, not just put in standby) has always fixed the HDMI issue for me, not a reboot of the sat receiver.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

boylehome said:


> The reverberation of audio when skipping back or forward seems fixed?


It's not fixed on my unit. It might not be as bad as it was before but it still occurs on skipping in both directions.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

ChuckA said:


> It's not fixed on my unit. It might not be as bad as it was before but it still occurs on skipping in both directions.





boylehome said:


> The reverberation of audio when skipping back or forward seems fixed?


After doing some of the above mentioned procedures, the reverberation is still present. I also notice that when resuming from pause there is a slight shift back. Basically, no change.


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## mitch672 (Feb 28, 2006)

Well dave, whatever the issue is, they should probably just ignore whatever is returned.... might solve a lot of problems.

Mitch



dave1234 said:


> Whether DVI or HDMI, HDCP has been enabled for quite awhile by Dish. My TV has a HDCP compliant DVI interface and I have no problem with the 622. I suspect this is a HDMI handshake issue as HDMI can communicate both directions and if Dish's receiver doesn't like what it gets back after polling the interface it apparently disables the interface.
> Note: This is my speculation on this issue, I have few facts to back it up...


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=670234&highlight=problems+with+hdmi

This is a good thread from the AVS forum on the problems of HDMI interface


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## jrfuda (Jan 21, 2005)

You can try this for your HDMI issues:


AdamGott on SatGuys Forum said:


> I found a fix, it sucks but it works:
> 
> Menu-6-8-left-left-down-right-right-select
> 
> This forces the HDMI handshake when the receiver tries to go to 720p. You can then cancel and you now have video!


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I have posted release notes for L3.57, they can be found here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=58075

Really only one fix: L357 increases the robustness of audio from the modulated (Agile) output


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## voripteth (Oct 25, 2005)

Rob Glasser said:


> IReally only one fix: L357 increases the robustness of audio from the modulated (Agile) output


Can you give us more information on what this "Agile" output actually is?


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

Only "robustness" of the modulated signal was addressed? This means it is now louder on TV2? That's it?

I'd suggest that everyone who still notices audio skipping/sync/reboot issues and has been told all this time (weeks and weeks) that this is a software problem, call DISH and ask for a new 622 box. This is ridiculous. Maybe they still don't realize the number of affected units out on the market.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

DAG said:


> Only "robustness" of the modulated signal was addressed? This means it is now louder on TV2? That's it?


It must have been a very slight increase as I'm not hearing the difference.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

voripteth said:


> Can you give us more information on what this "Agile" output actually is?


The Agile output is the RF output for TV1/TV2 home distribution. Robustness may not mean they changed the volume output, it could mean other improvements to the agile output system. Not really sure.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Almost two months and we get this one lousy update that no one asked for. Wonderful. Now I guess we will wait two more months and they'll fix another thing no one cares about. This is ridiculous.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DAG said:


> Only "robustness" of the modulated signal was addressed? This means it is now louder on TV2? That's it?
> 
> I'd suggest that everyone who still notices audio skipping/sync/reboot issues and has been told all this time (weeks and weeks) that this is a software problem, call DISH and ask for a new 622 box. This is ridiculous. Maybe they still don't realize the number of affected units out on the market.


And how would this resolve the audio sync and skipping issues? I agree swapping out is a good idea for spontaneous reboot but the audio sync and jerky video is not a hardware issue from what I can tell and I have not seen any evidence that a box swap will resolve those issues.

As for the weeks and months comments, Do you guys actually think this is the only thing Dish has been working on for a couple of months? Take a look and you might notice that it looks like other receivers are getting updates. Not sure if it is related, but might be.

I seriously doubt that the one fix in the release notes is the result of the efforts by the 622 engineering team. I know our hopes got raised seeing it appear, but this has happend before on different receivers.

Lets focus on any new issues seen with this release and take the venting on the deliver of a patch release to the general forums.


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## dishjim (Oct 21, 2004)

I have noticed the the skip forward time has been reduced, it was longer than 942, now it skips ahead about the same as 942


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Lets focus on any new issues seen with this release and take the venting on the deliver of a patch release to the general forums.


Point me (us) to the correct forum and I'll vent away. :listenup:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Here you go.... The Dish Network™ High Definition Discussion would be where i would go. Also could post one in the general area.

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Here you go....
> http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101


With the caveat to 'vent politely'.


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

James Long said:


> With the caveat to 'vent politely'.


Always....I'll have a cup of tea, organize my thoughts, and then "vent". Almost as therapeutic as meditation. I think I feel better already!


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

what the h*ll? it sounds like they still haven't fixed the CC problems?!? more daily reboots for a while, I guess


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## jkinghome (Mar 16, 2006)

Video stuttering still in L3.57.

This is getting really annoying!


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

It seems to have fixed the video stuttering on mine. I still have the hdmi problem.


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

boylehome said:


> It must have been a very slight increase as I'm not hearing the difference.


Same thing here. The wife likes to watch Oprah (ick!) while she's making dinner, and she told me today she can't do that anymore because she can't turn the tv up loud enough to hear Oprah's inane prattle over the vent hood.

So if they are going to fix this, they really need to turn it up to eleven!!

Michael


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Why introduce "enhancements" when there are some very real issues out there? This just doesn't make any sense. If the TV2 audio fix is the only thing new, it could have been incorporated with real fixes or placed on the back burner when relatively minor tweaks could be introduced.

WHile my HDMI continues to work, a reboot is needed almost daily to resolve either lost audio or lost video. Of course this assumes an auto-reboot hasn't occurred that day, for some unknown reason. Lately I find myself crossing my fingers every time I sit down to fire up the TV....... Will it work or won't it work????


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## diospyros (Nov 14, 2005)

Received 357, but still no HDMI on my 51" Sony RPTV.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

tomcrown1 said:


> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=670234&highlight=problems+with+hdmi
> 
> This is a good thread from the AVS forum on the problems of HDMI interface


It is a good thread. People should note that not all the problems can necessarily be blamed on the 622. DTV's HR10-250 had a whole raft of HDMI problems both hardware and software. BUT, some of the problems were on the other end. I don't remember the offending TVs, but I think some Sony and Panny sets actually got firmware upgrades from the respective manufacturers.

The HDMI/HDCP protocol is absurdly complex. The handshakes can't just be ignored, because part of the handshake is to exchange decryption keys. Yep, every single line of video is encrypted, and not trivially, either... it's a full-blown RSA-style encryption. There are ways for currently-working HDMI devices to be disabled if someone decides some vendor's devices have been 'compromised', e.g. someone figured out how to get decrypted video out of them. That's part of the handshake, too!

All this garbage is done because the content copyright holders are convinced that the world will end if they can't control the fate of every bit in the world, just like the music studios are trying to do.

Political rant on - call your congresspeople and complain loudly about the usurpation of fair-use, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and life in general.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

jkinghome said:


> Video stuttering still in L3.57.
> 
> This is getting really annoying!


I have a ton of movies protected and waiting to be dubbed off, but I was waiting for the next release to see if they cleaned things up.

My video is still jumpy, as if it's dropping frames and now it is doing the same thing that TV2 used to do -- jerky video on TV1! I never noticed it that much before this update, but now my TV1 output is just as jumpy as TV2 was, at times. The 10 second skip back fixes it, but come on, Dish!

The CC is still screwed and requires a reboot to fix -- not a good thing when you have 2 or 3 recordings in progress and you want to use CC. So, I sacrifice the CC and keep the recordings intact. What a choice.

Sorry, but here is my last vent: I was a beta tester on the 721 for 3.5 years and now I am a beta tester for the 622. Tiresome.


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't know if the the update had anything to do with it.
But the day of the update my HDMI stopped working. It had been fine for a month.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

dslate69 said:


> I don't know if the the update had anything to do with it.
> But the day of the update my HDMI stopped working. It had been fine for a month.


I assume you have rebooted and the issue is gone now?


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## dslate69 (Apr 11, 2006)

Bogey62 said:


> I assume you have rebooted and the issue is gone now?


No, I have cycled power on both the TV and 622 and no picture anymore. When it first happened, the screen was all static. By unhooking the HDMI cable I got flashes of picture then nothing. Now it is just black when trying to use HDMI.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm noticing increased A/V sync loss...especially when watching LIVE TV. This seemed to diminish with 356 but seems back again. It also locked up requiring a restart when I simply tried to zip past commercials. I see no gain with this "update".


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## trafter (Dec 11, 2003)

Well, I don't know if it is due to the new software or not - but my box stopped being able to get off air digital channels during that period of time. I called DISH today and they are shipping me a new box. and before somebady asks, yes, I checked the antenna cable, in fact I swapped out antennas with my 622 downstairs, I also changed the cables, did a front panel reboot and a power plug reboot. I even restored factory settings - no dice. So, here I am with no OTA recording capability for the next 3 days or so. Luckily, the lady I talked to at DISH (after the first guy hung up on me!) was very helpful and treated me like I knew what I was doing. Oh well...


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## TBarclay (Mar 24, 2002)

Well, the HDMI problem hit me this weekend in the middle of watching a DVR program, I got a weird situation where the picture would alternate between a black screen and a distorted version of what I was watching while the audio continued. I later got a picture back but without any red content (just blue and green). Now there's nothing. Composite, of course, works fine -- but I'm getting very frustrated by this. First, the jerky video, then spontaneous reboots, now this!


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

Bogey62 said:


> My video is still jumpy, as if it's dropping frames and now it is doing the same thing that TV2 used to do -- jerky video on TV1! I never noticed it that much before this update, but now my TV1 output is just as jumpy as TV2 was, at times. The 10 second skip back fixes it, but come on, Dish!


Well, prior to this build, I didn't have any jerky video, but now I do. I was watching a DVR recording of "UFO" from the "Family Room" Voom HD channel on TV1. I was in dual mode at the time. Wife was watching some DVR stuff downstairs on TV2. I hit skip back and no difference. Stopped/started program, still same thing. TV2 had no problems. I finished watching the show (JerkJerkJerk) and went to bed...didn't check live TV.

Not really a response to you, Bogey, just a confirmation. :grin:

Also, OTA audio is really low. Dish channels boom in fine. Whatever they fixed had no effect as far as I can tell. Needs more cowbell.

Michael


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

I have experience BSOD with the 622, twice in 2days, since 357, I had only a HMDI geometry issue on SD, prior to that with an"A" receiver. Both of these occurances happened during seperate types of use. When a soft reset didn't help I went to bed the first time. When a soft reset didn't help on the second I did a hard reset.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

I have been home for less than 24hrs from vacation in mexico....I havent noticed any video stuttering yet, but maybe im still hung over.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

wje said:


> It is a good thread. People should note that not all the problems can necessarily be blamed on the 622. DTV's HR10-250 had a whole raft of HDMI problems both hardware and software. BUT, some of the problems were on the other end. I don't remember the offending TVs, but I think some Sony and Panny sets actually got firmware upgrades from the respective manufacturers.
> 
> The HDMI/HDCP protocol is absurdly complex. The handshakes can't just be ignored, because part of the handshake is to exchange decryption keys. Yep, every single line of video is encrypted, and not trivially, either... it's a full-blown RSA-style encryption. There are ways for currently-working HDMI devices to be disabled if someone decides some vendor's devices have been 'compromised', e.g. someone figured out how to get decrypted video out of them. That's part of the handshake, too!
> 
> ...


I'm not buying it. My DVI port worked fine on my TV with my 921 with zero issues, and my 622 worked fine for 2 months before the connection flaked out.

Plus, when people request a new unit the new connection works fine which tells me that it is NOT my TV, but once again, some flaky code written on the 622.....

I'lll swap it out once I work down the recording backlog. With all my faves doing 2 hour season enders, it may take a few weeks. In the meantime, my component video cables are keeping me functional (although I have to keep swapping the cables when I want to use my DVD player since all my TV input ports are maxed out otherwise)


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## wumarkus (Jun 6, 2005)

getting jerkiness still after this update, regardless of mpeg2 or mpeg4 (if that ever mattered). HDMI has always been fine for me, but I have an older non-HDCP set...


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

Had a weird experience last night. We were watchin a sat channel, and I think my wife was about to watch a dvr recording. Just as it was about to record CSI:Miami (OTA), the video on the channel froze, the device then apparently crashed and rebooted. Came right back and started recording again, but caused us to miss the first few minutes. Sucks!

Michael


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

RockStrongo said:


> I have been home for less than 24hrs from vacation in mexico....I havent noticed any video stuttering yet, but maybe im still hung over.


Well, ive seen slight jerkiness a couple times, but no audio dropouts.

Also, its ALOT less frequent than it was before.

I better knock on wood though.


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## audioblueprint (May 23, 2006)

dslate69 said:


> I don't know if the the update had anything to do with it.
> But the day of the update my HDMI stopped working. It had been fine for a month.


Same story last nite. 622 was working like a champ for a month with my new Panny 60u :nono2: and then we sit down to watch season finale of 24 and the HDMI connection goes 
black. My reciever had been completely trouble free since April 21!! Switched to Svideo and component for audio and had huge issues with audio sync and picture stuttering.

So what are the best options for a fix. Light up customer service till I get a new reciever, or tweak and reboot till I get the HDMI to work again??


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

RockStrongo said:


> Well, ive seen slight jerkiness a couple times, but no audio dropouts.
> 
> Also, its ALOT less frequent than it was before.
> 
> I better knock on wood though.


I had thought things were better as well, but had to watch delayed (skip back button) last night because of audio dropouts and synch issues.....

Now more than three months and on second 622 box, still no fix in sight.


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

Forgot to mention in my last post, that the jerkiness came back on TV1. Nothing seems to get rid of it.


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## debpasc (Oct 20, 2005)

Some jerkiness but it is very sporadic and not long-lived. Minor audio-synch -- also sporadic and usually short-lived. Haven't played back last Desperate Housewives yet and that's usually where my biggest audio-synch and fractured video issues are. Bottom line for me: these things are no better or no worse since L3.57.

Twice I have had problems stopping a DVR playback of a program while it is still recording -- i.e. start playback of a program before it has finished recording. The playback is fine until/unless you try to stop and then resume or start it over. It goes to black screen or fractured video with no audio. It will fast forward but not playback. Front panel re-boot fixes it. The first time this happened was before L3.57, the second time was after.


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## wumarkus (Jun 6, 2005)

jerkiness is now recoccuring daily since the release - officially worse than before


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

wumarkus said:


> jerkiness is now recoccuring daily since the release - officially worse than before


For those experiencing jerkiness: Do you have a dish aimed at 129 or 61.5? I found when reaiming my dish to 61.5 all my freeze frame, jerky image issues went away. Of course if you're seeing jerkiness on other than VOOM channels that is not the issue.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have seen it on ESPNHD and also on ABC-OT. I don't think it is sat specific.


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

I've seen it on Voom "Family Room" and also on the local (OTA) CBS station here. The local comes banging in at 98 or so; doesn't seem signal strength related. Granted, my 129 is low (70's) but isn't everyones? 

Michael


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## audioblueprint (May 23, 2006)

Well, they are sending me a new 622 on Friday. Interesting in that 2 different CSR's claim that the HDMI loss is a hardware issue. This answer still doesn't make sense to me as HDMI was perfect for the month prior to L357. When I directly asked them about a software update causing the problem, they both denied it. Although 1 of the CSR's conceded that they have been having a large amount of complaints on the 622. Is this the same response everyone is getting from the CSR's? Is anyone else surprised that they are so eager to replace the hardware, instead of making you wait for a new software push.


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## mitch672 (Feb 28, 2006)

They are going to costs themselves a ton of money, because, it is purely a software issue. My HDMI worked just fine, until L3.56 arriived... and has been out ever since. Tell me how that has anything to do with hardware? BTW, my 211 has the SAME issue, worked on HDMI out of the box, in fact the dish installer and I set it up using HDMI... as soon as it took the software "upgrade" (I would disagree that it was an upgrade), HDMI stopped working. This is on 2 different HD sets as well, Vizio P42HDTV on the 211 and JVC P1RU1 on the 622. neither works with HDMI any longer. Should I call and get them BOTH replaced? I think not.

Mitch


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I turned on my TV this moring to find that the audio was a full 2 SECONDS ahead of the video! I've had sync issues in the past, but it was always been just slightly off. Today, the delay was so great that at first I thought I was receiving audio and video from two different channels. One press of the SKIP BACK button syc'd everything right up.

It's good to know there is a work around, but the issue seems to be getting worse instead of better.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

I noticed something (another glitch) last night while watching my local HD's. When the HD programs go to a SD commerical it's seemless, however when it goes from an SD commercial back to the HD feed, or from an SD program to an HD program my 622 stutters, gets green tiles for a few seconds and then the programming comes on. 

I've had my 622 for 3 days and escalated all of the issues to the CEO email address. Engineering called me back and after almost 2 hours of trouble shooting, etc. are sending me a replacement 622 and a 2nd dish to point directly at the 129. They think the incredibly low signal strength on the 129 (below 50) is causing some of the issues. But they said, "Our engineers want to get their hands on your unit" (their words not mine.. lol :grin: :eek2:  ). 

Since I've had the 622 (3 days), I've experienced over 20 reboots, numerous freezes, I can't watch a show that is recording, when I play a recorded show I can't hit ff or rewind because it will freeze, the issue I mentioned above, the HD channels all have major ghosting and pixelation, on the voom shows people move and it looks like a comet cursor on a pc (the long trails), ABC Audio/Video is like a bad kung fu movie. When the 622 goes to dial out for the updates, it crashes and reboots.

I do have to say that the engineering team I've been speaking with has been very kind and helpful. They said they will download all of the system updates to the unit before they ship it to me today. 

It seems like if you want something done, you can't go through normal tech support, they all just say "reboot", unplug and try a different outet, etc. I just emailed the CEO and got an immediate PHONE CALL from someone who actually knows the product. 

Crossing fingers that I can get this resolved and not have to go back to DirecTv.


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## wumarkus (Jun 6, 2005)

dave1234 said:


> For those experiencing jerkiness: Do you have a dish aimed at 129 or 61.5? I found when reaiming my dish to 61.5 all my freeze frame, jerky image issues went away. Of course if you're seeing jerkiness on other than VOOM channels that is not the issue.


To answer your question, I'm pointing at 61.5 and the jerkiness occurs on ALL channels (not just VOOM, HD, or MPEG4). As usual, the receiver was acting jerky AGAIN tonight (every night in a row since the upgrade)... a standard power-cycle (holding the power button down for a while for a full reboot) got it working fine again. <sarcasm> Can't wait to power-cycle again tomorrow! </sarcasm>

I think I'll call and get a THIRD replacement unit at this point. I'm all about beta testing and can understand advanced issues with timers, multiple tuners, etc. But if your receiver can't even decode a simple signal while keeping the audio in sync, what are you left with?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

What does "jerkiness" mean is it constant? Is it when stations move from commercial to show??


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Wrecker06 said:


> I noticed something (another glitch) last night while watching my local HD's. When the HD programs go to a SD commerical it's seemless, however when it goes from an SD commercial back to the HD feed, or from an SD program to an HD program my 622 stutters, gets green tiles for a few seconds and then the programming comes on.
> 
> I've had my 622 for 3 days and escalated all of the issues to the CEO email address. Engineering called me back and after almost 2 hours of trouble shooting, etc. are sending me a replacement 622 and a 2nd dish to point directly at the 129. They think the incredibly low signal strength on the 129 (below 50) is causing some of the issues. But they said, "Our engineers want to get their hands on your unit" (their words not mine.. lol :grin: :eek2:  ).
> 
> ...


The only way to deal w/ Dish on this unit is the advanced tech dept. That is who called you. I can tell U that it sound like wht you have is a unit that the power supply is screwing up. It is sending out spikes of unfiltered AC to unit which will drive the processor nuts. In fact if it doesn't go belly up real soon it would be a surprise. There is also 1 other posssiblity and it is the hard drive is bad. Does it also make strange hi pitched noises?


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

357 and a hard reboot seemed to cause and then remove my BSOD issue. Other than the HMDI geometry shift I'm in a long term love affair.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

But even my notoriously flaky 921 could play back recordings without a hitch (granted it gave me several zero second recordings and did not always elegantly recover from a reboot).

This is severely handicapped even considering E*'s rickety reputation with their flagship receivers.... 

A nasty "upgrade" that made things worse while killing no bugs we were experiencing, a threat of distant nets going away, and Tivo trying to kill their PVRs. This hasn't been a great week for E*. Have the retailers begun lighting the torches to storm Charlie's position at Team Summit yet?


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

normang said:


> What does "jerkiness" mean is it constant? Is it when stations move from commercial to show??


It's like watching a video clip on a flaky internet connection.... It looks like the processor can't keep up with the stream coming in so it drops frames repeatedly. You can minimize the effect by pressing the skip back button, but the receiverwants to keep skipping back to live tv when you only have a 3 second buffer in memory. I have to pause it for about 5-10 seconds to make it watchable. Also, the audio sync is off, so we get the Godzilla movie effect as the lips moving don't exactly match the soundtrack....


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

Has anyone noticed on the Dish 1000 channel, the Dish wording is clear than then shaky and then back to clear again? It repeats over and over, kind of like the stuttering others are reporting here.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

BobMurdoch said:


> I'm not buying it. My DVI port worked fine on my TV with my 921 with zero issues, and my 622 worked fine for 2 months before the connection flaked out.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Note that DVI isn't HDMI. Typiclly, DVI works just fine. It's a virtual certainty the 622 has some software and hardware HDMI issues. My point is (and the point of the referenced article) is that all problems can't be automatically blamed on the 622. Many manufacturers have had HDMI issues with their equipment.


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

I recorded the season finale of LOST on my local ABC-OTA HD station (WTVC-Chattanooga) on Wednesday night, and tried to watch it last night.

Every minute or so, a yellow screen would popup stating that the signal had been lost (for the OTA reception). I could not skip ahead when this was up. I accidentally discovered that by pressing the DVR button once when the warning screen poped up, that I could make it go away and then press view to resume watching the show. This was very repeatable and occurred probably 30 - 40 times during the show (royal PITA).

At about 5 minutes to go, the center channel conent dropped out completely. I still had the rest of the sound (background music, etc.), just no dialogue. I could see lips moving, but could not hear any sound. Now, LOST is a strange show, so maybe that was by design :grin:


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I think that is a problem with the station and not the 622. ABC seems to have a lot of problems especially if you're watching via the new digitals on satellite stations. Also, you can watch "Lost" on your computer at abc.com if you missed it.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

srrobinson2 said:


> I recorded the season finale of LOST on my local ABC-OTA HD station (WTVC-Chattanooga) on Wednesday night, and tried to watch it last night.
> 
> Every minute or so, a yellow screen would popup stating that the signal had been lost (for the OTA reception). I could not skip ahead when this was up. I accidentally discovered that by pressing the DVR button once when the warning screen poped up, that I could make it go away and then press view to resume watching the show. This was very repeatable and occurred probably 30 - 40 times during the show (royal PITA).
> 
> At about 5 minutes to go, the center channel conent dropped out completely. I still had the rest of the sound (background music, etc.), just no dialogue. I could see lips moving, but could not hear any sound. Now, LOST is a strange show, so maybe that was by design :grin:


Well I had a similar experience with Alias. I thought it was a brilliant dramatic effect until I realized I was just missing the center channel. I fast forwarded about 10 minutes and the sound came back. Then I rewound and it was gone again. So I wonder if there was a problem with the HD feed itself.

Fortunately I don't trust the 622 HD recordings and often duplicate them on my 501 in SD just in case. So I had it there and could watch the first 10 minutes on the 501. Everyone thinks I'm crazy to have both the 501 and 622 in the same room connected to the same monitor, but here's why!


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

lujan said:


> I think that is a problem with the station and not the 622. ABC seems to have a lot of problems especially if you're watching via the new digitals on satellite stations. Also, you can watch "Lost" on your computer at abc.com if you missed it.


And you can download it from iTunes.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

I called advanced CSR the other night and the guy said he had no info on jerkiness or video stuttering. I couldn't believe it after reading everything here. He told me that the list of known issues isn't a secret, that you can find it on their website.

I asked him to add it to the list and he said he'd pass it on for consideration.

If D* really doesn't have this as a known issue, then we're in big trouble. Everyone that experiences it should call in and make sure they've registered it. I too was hoping that it might be fixed with 357, but no joy.

In fact I've seen much worse effects now. I see freeze frames for 10-20 seconds and then it resumes. Also lack of audio/video sync is much more common.

I wonder whether anyone from D* is really reading this forum, or if they just have a really really poor communication problem.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

D* would probably be laughing their asses off. E* would be more concerned.

I'm wondering what you are watching to get 10-20 second pauses and all the sync problems, and why my ViP-622 doesn't seem to be anywhere as bad as a few of the ones reported in this forum.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

James Long said:


> D* would probably be laughing their asses off. E* would be more concerned.
> 
> I'm wondering what you are watching to get 10-20 second pauses and all the sync problems, and why my ViP-622 doesn't seem to be anywhere as bad as a few of the ones reported in this forum.


OK, excuse me. I meant D* short for Dish, not DirectTV. Pardon my ignorance. All I can report is what I experience.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

It has been indicated here from reliable sources (Mark) that E* is aware of the problem and is working on a fix for the jerky video. As for a list of known issues, I would love to get the URL for that one. I have never seen such a list and it would be most excellent to be able to post a link.

Oh.. and yes the eyes of E* do wonder across this forum and the main reason for the "No Bash" rule is to not scare the wondering eyes away.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> It has been indicated here from reliable sources (Mark) that E* is aware of the problem and is working on a fix for the jerky video. As for a list of known issues, I would love to get the URL for that one. I have never seen such a list and it would be most excellent to be able to post a link.
> 
> Oh.. and yes the eyes of E* do wonder across this forum and the main reason for the "No Bash" rule is to not scare the wondering eyes away.


Good. So if you're watching.....HELLO E*!

1. I lose HDMI audio once a week. Resolved by reboot.
2. My receiver reboots every other day. Sometimes by itself, other times by necessity.
3. Audio sync varies wildly. Sometimes dead on, sometimes just slightly off, other times a full 1 or 2 seconds off. Resolved by SKIP BACK button.

Keep those updates coming.


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## SteveinDanville (Jun 26, 2002)

knealy said:


> I called advanced CSR the other night and the guy said he had no info on jerkiness or video stuttering. I couldn't believe it after reading everything here. He told me that the list of known issues isn't a secret, that you can find it on their website.
> 
> I asked him to add it to the list and he said he'd pass it on for consideration.
> 
> ...


Please don't perceive this as a bash, because it's not really; it just seems the way of the customer service world these days. I do not want to be banned from the site; I think this is a relevant comment. Below is the response I got from Dish customer service when I complained about the audio sync and stuttering video issues on my new 622 (by the way, it took from May 19 to May 26 to get this response):

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in DISH Network.
Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously
improve the quality of the DISH Network service.

We have word from our engineering team that they believe they have
identified the problem. They are currently working on a resolution in
which may take some time to implement, so we thank you for your
patience. If you do not notice any changes after a few weeks could you
notify us again?

At DISH Network we appreciate the time customers take to email their
audio/video quality concerns. Thank you for your patience, information,
and for being a valued customer.

EchoStar Satellite LLC
Quality Assurance Department
[email protected]

Two things: I have had this same response recently, exact same wording, on two separate complaints. In addition, note that there is no specific reference to any "issue", just completely generic wording. Does anybody really know if these issues are being worked on? I'm a 9 year subscriber, and I think that's a valid question.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Many of us are getting the same "form letter" from E*. It makes one wonder?


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## jenniferny (May 28, 2006)

What I am having problems understanding is how the HDMI worked for 8 days and then all of a sudden stopped working. I wouldnt mind waiting for the software update that fixes the problem, butr having tech support telling me repeatedly that the problem is the way I connected the receiver, even though it worked fine for 8 days.

*A MOUSE* 
Its not our fault, you are doing something wrong, we will send out a tech to connect it properly. :icon_lame :blackeye: :bonk1:

*A MAN*
There are some bugs in the new Vip622, but we are diligently working to fix the problems. :listening :balloons: !pride :up:

*CHARLIE ERGEN, WHICH ONE ARE YOU??* :icon_cry:


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## omszz (May 29, 2006)

I'm glad i got on and read the posts here. Since the last week or two, I've also been experiencing many of the issues being posted here, with the stuttering being the worst of them. I even get stuttering on SD channels which is a worse experience than my old 508.

Question I had is - can Dish network honestly charge folks for programming when providing such a bad experience? I would expect they refund customers for the amount of time these problems exist. I really am at the point of not wanting to watch some stuff because of the stutter.

Also I'm pretty sure this problem was introduced through SW upgrade as things were working fine for me as well up until recently.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

omszz said:


> Also I'm pretty sure this problem was introduced through SW upgrade as things were working fine for me as well up until recently.


The stuttering has been around as long as the receivers have been in use. A software update might have made matters worse in many cases. Your right in that it is worse with SD. With my 622's, I can temporarily fix this problem by doing a power button reset (this is not desirable when programs are in process of being recorded). I have concluded that the stuttering (jerky video) is a memory issue because that the memory doesn't properly get flushed/refreshed automatically so it receiver doesn't have enough memory to work well. The stuttering is at its worst when other programs are being recorded and the receiver was previously in use for several hours.


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

lujan said:


> I think that is a problem with the station and not the 622. ABC seems to have a lot of problems especially if you're watching via the new digitals on satellite stations. Also, you can watch "Lost" on your computer at abc.com if you missed it.


I don't understand how my problem could be station related. No content was missed, the signal loss screen simply popped up. Pressing the DVR button made it go away every time it happened. I wasn't really losing the signal b/c this was the recorded version. Again, I did not miss 1 second of the show, but I did press a button a lot in order to watch it


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## bill312407 (Jun 1, 2006)

Just want to throw my experience in the mix... I've been a dish customer for many years... just upgraded tv to 42 inch plasma and got the VIP 622... nothing but issues since... very nice CSR's, but I really just want to get home after a long day and turn on the tv and have it work... jerky video, audio out of synch... yada yada... told the software upgrades are coming and they will resolve...


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## audioblueprint (May 23, 2006)

48 hours and going strong on my 2nd 622 I've got my fingers crossed that this will at least stay functional thru the World Cup. Ole Ole Ole 

Anyhow my CSR guy was awfully chatty during setup. He honestly said that nobody at E* has concrete evidence on why these recievers have been so problematic. He said the top hypothesese under consideration are...

1. Hardware-- hdmi pins are not grounding or physically making the proper connections.

2. TV compatibility issues.

3. HDCP compatibility issues-- the DVR makes the TV think you are trying to copy copyrighted material and refuses the hdmi signal.

4. L357 Software bugs-- Not quick to admit this, as people are supposedly having mixed success running L357.

Good luck to those still struggling. If you are fed up, like I was, cave in and get the replacement.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

^ I just wonder why the 942 was so problem free, but the 622 is problem plagued. Aren't they almost the same player?? 

When I got mine, I thought the only difference was the MPEG4 implemetation. I assumed (bad me) that it would perform as flawlessly as my old 942 did. Oh well. Maybe soon!! Fingers crossed!!


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

RockStrongo said:


> ^ I just wonder why the 942 was so problem free, but the 622 is problem plagued. Aren't they almost the same player??
> 
> When I got mine, I thought the only difference was the MPEG4 implemetation. I assumed (bad me) that it would perform as flawlessly as my old 942 did. Oh well. Maybe soon!! Fingers crossed!!


The 942 had plenty of problems when released. In the end it was very solid. The 622 processor is identical to the 942 as is much of the S/W. That's why the 622 is relatively trouble free(I realize some may disagree), but it's still got some new S/W that's going to have bugs. My 622 has been nearly flawless so far. Only one hiccup on HDMI out in the last 4 weeks.
Compared to my 942 that had several ways that it froze up until the S/W was fixed.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Except for the audio drop outs and video jerkiness and black screens, and of course the terrible job that Dish is doing with the 1080i hd locals , the 622 is just great. 

And for the record the only real problem that the 942 had at first , is similiar to the 622 and what problems they have now; The 942's second tuner had audio drop outs and no dolby digital sound on the second tuner. ON the 622 the first and second tuner suffers from the above mentioned audio/video /black screens I spoke of above. 

IF they would just fix the the above mentioned problems I would be happy with the 622. Until then I can only pray and hope they will hurry up with the software update that fixes the problems.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

Maybe I got the 942 late, but I didnt notice ANY issues with it at all. Maybe I was lucky.

Ive had the video jerkiness and occasinoal audio dropouts on the 622. They have been less frequent since this 3.57 version was installed, but still happen.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

RockStrongo said:


> Maybe I got the 942 late, but I didnt notice ANY issues with it at all. Maybe I was lucky.


The 942 has had it's share of issues as well. I remember having a lot of problems with Error code # recordings where I'd have to reboot to get them to play, a number of missed recordings where the red light would be on but nothing would get recorded. There was a big problem at one point where a release really messed up a lot of users' OTA stations. Anyone that didn't have a really strong signal started losing OTA stations. Then last fall there was the big pixilation problem where you'd see bad pixilation or macroblocking on shows, mainly SD DVR events if I remember correctly. The 942 has been pretty rock solid since then though.

I think we'll be there soon with the 622. Once DISH can get things like the video stutter and HDMI issues fixed I think we'll have a good solid receiver on our hands.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

Rob Glasser said:


> The 942 has had it's share of issues as well. I remember having a lot of problems with Error code # recordings where I'd have to reboot to get them to play, a number of missed recordings where the red light would be on but nothing would get recorded. There was a big problem at one point where a release really messed up a lot of users' OTA stations. Anyone that didn't have a really strong signal started losing OTA stations. Then last fall there was the big pixilation problem where you'd see bad pixilation or macroblocking on shows, mainly SD DVR events if I remember correctly. The 942 has been pretty rock solid since then though.
> 
> I think we'll be there soon with the 622. Once DISH can get things like the video stutter and HDMI issues fixed I think we'll have a good solid receiver on our hands.


Now that I think about it, I do remember having one issue with the 942. A couple times, when I would watch something on my DVR, there would be no sound. If I stopped and restarted it, the sound would come back.

I didnt have any of the issues that you had, but again, I might have had a later software version when I got mine.

Anyways, I agree. I think the 622 will perform well soon. Daily, I check my software version to see if its been updated.


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## Voyagemaster (Apr 27, 2006)

Question I had is - can Dish network honestly charge folks for programming when providing such a bad experience? I would expect they refund customers for the amount of time these problems exist. I really am at the point of not wanting to watch some stuff because of the stutter.

Also I'm pretty sure this problem was introduced through SW upgrade as things were working fine for me as well up until recently.[/QUOTE]

My Vip622 was working great until this update, now I really don't like watching the jerky video.
I have also noticed the audio cuts outs every few seconds-jerky too i guess.

I made a recording and that too is jerky.:nono: 
I didn't try viewing a recording made prior to the sw change.

Just to let E know too just in case they're lurking


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

Add me to the growing list of dead HDMI ports on my 622. Lucky me, I've got a Sony PVR with an HDMI port, and swapping cables, HDMI works fine. 

Trying to communicate this to Dish is an exercise in futility. The Tech named Jeff chose to argue with me - his ears are still burning. I demanded to speak to his manager and was transferred to voice mail. 

Gotta love that good ol' time Dish Service. BTW, Verizon's knocking at my door....


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

My issues include the video stuttering, audio synch and occasional audio drop out. I'm using component out for my Mits so HDMI isn't an issue for me. My problems also did get worse with the recent update. I have to skip back almost every time I change the channel.


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## hokie-dk (Feb 4, 2006)

I posted the following in response to another thread, but it seems to apply here as well:

My 622 has only recently begun stuttering, and a reboot didn't fix it. Time shifting doesn't seem to make much a difference. It is not a constant thing and I can live with it for the time being. What is weird is that I didn't have the problem until I received a download of new software on my *508* last month. Now they *both* stutter occasionally. I'm beginning to wonder if the problem may be somewhere else (switch, antenna, sat, etc.).

A better explanation may be that the Dish-on-Demand so-called feature is the real culprit.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

hokie-dk said:


> I posted the following in response to another thread, but it seems to apply here as well:
> 
> My 622 has only recently begun stuttering, and a reboot didn't fix it. Time shifting doesn't seem to make much a difference. It is not a constant thing and I can live with it for the time being. What is weird is that I didn't have the problem until I received a download of new software on my *508* last month. Now they *both* stutter occasionally. I beginning to wonder if the problem may be somewhere else (switch, antenna, sat, etc.).
> 
> A better explanation may be that the Dish-on-Demand so-called feature is the real culprit.


Are you saying that they added the Dish on Demand stuff to your 508 and as of that release you are seeing stuttering on it too? Prior to that release on your 508 you did not?


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## hokie-dk (Feb 4, 2006)

Yes, that is correct.


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