# Best streaming service for sports



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

A good breakdown of sports channels on the streaming services. Vidgo is not included nor there is no mention of Sling not carrying the Fox branded RSNs, NBC Sports Chicago or BTN.

What's the best streaming service for a sports fan? 2020 edition


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

What would really be beneficial is what teams you will get with each service - through their regional sports network.

Because I'm betting that if you live in a fringe area, where you're considered part of a team's territory (i.e. St. Louis Cardinals) but don't live in the area that gets their regional sports network (Foxsports Midwest) then you are going to be SOL.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Pretty much this is the problem with the streaming services and where PS Vue actually stood out over the rest was Sports. PS Vue's Elite package was the most comprehensive sports based package out there as it had all the national sports channels (including beIN Sports and Eleven Sports), all the college sports channels except Pac-12 Networks and Fox College Sports and all the Fox Sports RSNs (including YES) and NBC Sports RSNs (availability based on address.) Fox Soccer Plus could be added on for $15/mo and their $10 Sports Extra pack had ESPN Bases Loaded/Goal Line, MLB Strike Zone and NFL Red Zone. AT&T TV Now's grandfathered Go Big package was also another very good comprehensive sports based package. Only major omission is NFL Network, Pac-12 Network and beIN Sports.

With the current lineup of streaming services it really comes down to what you want the most. National sports vs pro sports vs college sports vs soccer. While I agree with that article mostly when it comes to AT&T TV Now they are mistaken about the Xtra package. This is how I would rank each service based on overall line-up of sports channels and price.

YouTube TV - $50/month
Hulu - $55/month or $70/mo with Enhanced Cloud DVR + Unlimited Screens Bundle add-on. (***Note for Chicago baseball fans *this would be your #1 option as of 2/18/20 since Hulu+Live TV has a deal in place to carry both Marquee and NBC Sports Chicago.)

AT&T TV Now - Max $80/month (***Note for Chicago baseball fans *this would be your #2 option as of 2/18/20 since AT&T TV Now has a deal in place to carry both Marquee and NBC Sports Chicago.)
Sing TV - $60/month ($45/mo for Orange + Blue and $15/mo for Sports Pack)
fuboTV - $55/month - Currently the best for soccer fans.
Table overview of packages and sports channels:








*Last Edited*: 2/18/2020 @ 12:22 AM EST - Added Hulu as a provider for Marquee, amended top 5 ranking of streaming services to reflect this.


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Nice chart. Note that you can also add NBA League Pass to YTTV for $40/month or $124 for the 2019-2020 season.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

evotz said:


> What would really be beneficial is what teams you will get with each service - through their regional sports network.
> 
> Because I'm betting that if you live in a fringe area, where you're considered part of a team's territory (i.e. St. Louis Cardinals) but don't live in the area that gets their regional sports network (Foxsports Midwest) then you are going to be SOL.


They pretty much aline with what's available on cable or satellite. Heck I even had a recent Timberwolves/Pacers game on three RSNs on YTTV, Timberwolves feed on FS North and Midwest+ and Pacers feed on FS Midwest. I still have no clue why or how Iowa is claimed by the Pacers.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

But at least with DirecTV you can buy the Sports Pack and get the games that you're suppose to be getting. I don't really like that policy (if I'm in St. Louis Cardinals "territory" then I should get the St. Louis Cardinals games... otherwise, why am I in St. Louis Cardinals territory?). Why am I having to pay an RSN fee when I can't get my "regional" sports teams games?

I don't really watch the NBA... but this also applies with the NBA. In West KY - you can't get the Memphis games (without the Sports Pack)... but you can get the Cleveland games! 150 miles to Memphis... 500 miles to Cleveland... yes, Cleveland is much more of a regional team for this area than Memphis!

And going by that chart... it doesn't fully explain everything. For example, Hulu and Youtube both give you Foxsports Midwest (where the Cardinals play) and Foxsports Ohio (where the Reds play... which is also considered a team in my "territory"). With DirecTV I get Foxsports Ohio and Foxsports South. So with Hulu and Youtube which regional sports networks do I get? And if it's not all 3... how do I get the ones not mentioned? If Youtube only gives me Foxsports South and Foxsports Ohio but gives no way to get Foxsports Midwest... I'm SOL for Cardinals games.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

garn9173 said:


> They pretty much aline with what's available on cable or satellite. Heck I even had a recent Timberwolves/Pacers game on three RSNs on YTTV, Timberwolves feed on FS North and Midwest+ and Pacers feed on FS Midwest. I still have no clue why or how Iowa is claimed by the Pacers.


That would be an error on the part of YTTV. Iowa should get the Timberwolves feeds.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

mjwagner said:


> Nice chart. Note that you can also add NBA League Pass to YTTV for $40/month or $124 for the 2019-2020 season.


Sure! I would also need to add it to AT&T TV Now because they are also selling NBA League Pass Premium for $40/mo. I also forgot to add Marquee to the table which at this time is only being carried by AT&T TV Now at launch. As of this post Marquee doesn't have deals in place with fuboTV, Hulu + Live TV, Sling TV (since that's tied to Dish) and YTTV.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

James Long said:


> That would be an error on the part of YTTV. Iowa should get the Timberwolves feeds.


It was that way on HuluLive Live and I've seen Pacers games on Mediacom and during my days with Dish (Fox Sports Midwest/Midwest+).

2019-20 Local TV and Radio Listings


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

evotz said:


> But at least with DirecTV you can buy the Sports Pack and get the games that you're suppose to be getting.  I don't really like that policy (if I'm in St. Louis Cardinals "territory" then I should get the St. Louis Cardinals games... otherwise, why am I in St. Louis Cardinals territory?). Why am I having to pay an RSN fee when I can't get my "regional" sports teams games?
> 
> I don't really watch the NBA... but this also applies with the NBA. In West KY - you can't get the Memphis games (without the Sports Pack)... but you can get the Cleveland games! 150 miles to Memphis... 500 miles to Cleveland... yes, Cleveland is much more of a regional team for this area than Memphis!
> 
> And going by that chart... it doesn't fully explain everything. For example, Hulu and Youtube both give you Foxsports Midwest (where the Cardinals play) and Foxsports Ohio (where the Reds play... which is also considered a team in my "territory"). With DirecTV I get Foxsports Ohio and Foxsports South. So with Hulu and Youtube which regional sports networks do I get? And if it's not all 3... how do I get the ones not mentioned? If Youtube only gives me Foxsports South and Foxsports Ohio but gives no way to get Foxsports Midwest... I'm SOL for Cardinals games.


That chart is a general overview for more local specific information its best to check with each provider as who gets what makes no sense in some cases. However in the life of an RSN fan who carries what RSNs is not clear cut as it may seem when you compare cable vs satellite vs streaming.

With D* think of the ability to add additional RSNs with professional teams via the Sports Pack is like cable's equivalent of adding on a digital tier to get access to significantly viewed out of market locals. Based on your zip code for satellite you are not normally eligible for Memphis games but cable may air them on a regular basis. So... the RSN allows D* to sell the RSN with the Memphis games via the Sports Pack to anyone in these particular zip codes who wants them. Not all zip codes can do this mind you only certain ones in certain situations.

For example if you live in the Huntington-Charleston WV DMA (which includes Southeast OH, Western WV and Eastern KY) you will find that the RSN you want will dictate the type of service you will sign up for. (I kid you not this is actually how these things work in this DMA I should know I have had Suddenlink, Comcast, Armstrong and now DirecTV.)

*Cable:* For WV cable companies outside of Huntington (and Armstrong in OH) they only carry AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh. Suddenlink carries a "Leased Commercial Access" channel on their expanded tier which shows Jewelry Television most of the time. Suddenlink will use this channel to air Cincinnati Reds games (these get priority). AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh will occasionally broadcast select Cleveland Cavaliers games broadcast by Fox Sports Ohio. For the games not carried by AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh, Suddenlink will air them on this channel when nothing else (sports wise) is airing. They will occasionally air Columbus Blue Jackets games.
Comcast in Huntington is the only provider carrying both Fox Sports Ohio and AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh together. No cable operator carries SportsTime Ohio which means no Cleveland Indians games on cable. Booo! 
I'm not entirely sure how RSNs are handled on most Eastern KY systems but the two very small systems I saw channel lineups for only carried Fox Sports Ohio.

*Satellite*: (I can't really include Dish atm due to their dispute but I would imagine what applies for D* applies for E* normally.) For D* zip codes WV get Fox Sports Ohio, Fox Sports Cincinnati and SportsTime Ohio in Choice or above. AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh is available in Xtra or above. Cool beans for them! 
In OH/KY they do not get AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh and need MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass and/or NHL Center Ice to follow their favorite teams. 
On D* Eastern KY zip codes only get Fox Sports Cincinnati and SportsTime Ohio (why is beyond me that's what their online RSN tool says.) 

*Streaming: *Hulu + Live TV and YouTube TV will give both Western WV and Southeast OH zip codes Fox Sports Ohio, Fox Sports Cincinnati (branded as Ohio Plus) and SportsTime Ohio. (This gives customers in this DMA an alternate to satellite if they want Cleveland Indians games since cable companies do not carry these games at all. ) Eastern KY zip codes in this DMA get Fox Sports South in addition to Fox Sports Ohio, Fox Sports Cincinnati and SportsTime Ohio on both Hulu + Live TV and YouTube TV. 
Since AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh is not carried on streamers there is no data on how it would be handled vs satellite.
For Eastern KY only, AT&T TV Now is excluded because it follows whatever D* does when available which in this case Eastern KY zip codes only get Fox Sports Cincinnati and SportsTime Ohio (again why is beyond me I just go based on the tools but at least there is constancy.) 

So in this DMA if you live in WV and your household has someone who is a Reds fan then someone else is an Indians fan and someone else happens to be a Pirates fan then your SOL and you will have to get DirecTV's Xtra package as it is the only option to get all 3 teams. (Sucks to be you, soz) If all you care about is the Reds and Pirates you can get away with cable or satellite in WV. If you wants Reds and Indians (but no Pirates because you despise the Pirates) you can make due with the streamers.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

mjwagner said:


> Nice chart. Note that you can also add NBA League Pass to YTTV for $40/month or $124 for the 2019-2020 season.


Chart in Post #3 updated with NBA LP for AT&T TV Now and YTTV and also added Marquee. I hope other streaming services reach deals to carry Marquee looks odd seeing AT&T TV Now being the only streamer carrying a sport


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

And MLB (in particular) wonders why they are losing viewers!

It's because your stupid regional territory rules get in the way of people actually watching their team!

Now I don't know who is to blame in all of this. And I don't pretend to know what the solution might be. BUT, I do know that pretending that there isn't a problem isn't a solution.

My one hope is that since MLB (mainly the sport I'm interested in) has released regional sports networks back to the teams (or something like that) that maybe Sinclair (did they buy all of the Foxsports networks? Or at least Midwest and Ohio) will come up with some type of in-territory streaming service - which, depending on the price, I could purchase alongside mlb.tv and then get all of the games.

Luckily for me, I'm an out of market Cubs fan. So mlb.tv (and/or Extra Innings) works for most of the games. But when the Cubs play the Cardinals, if those games don't happen to be mirrored on Foxsports South or unless it's a Friday afternoon game and I can catch the replay on mlb.tv later that night.. I'm out of luck watching those games. And the Cubs/Cardinals games are really must watch games for any Cubs or Cardinals fan.

Ideally... MLB would strike down the Reds ownership of this region (because nobody is a Reds fan in this part of the state) meaning that Cubs/Reds games would be on mlb.tv and all I'd have to purchase is a Foxsports package with the Cardinals games.

But if MLB really wants to fix it's viewership problem, it needs to take a long, long look at these team territories and figure out what they can do to open these up. If I were a Cardinals fan in West KY and wanted to watch all the Cardinals games... from best I can tell... my ONLY option (there's no cable where I live) is DirecTV with the Sports Pack. I've got more options to watch out of territory teams (like the Cubs) with DirecTV + EI or mlb.tv.


----------



## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

The "problem" with regional sports - "local" stations etc. paid franchise fees to TV stations that included exclusive rights to local sports - it isn't quite that simple but that is the basis for a lot of this. Does it make sense today, no but those agreements are supported by laws. Same issue - other than news shows there is little reason for local "broadcast" stations but franchises exist.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Hulu+Live TV will now carry Marquee Sports Network. This now makes AT&T TV Now and Hulu+Live TV as the only streaming services in the region to carry Marquee.

*Providers with no deal for Marquee:*

*Traditional MVPDs*
Comcast/Xfinity (cable; largest MVPD in the region owns competing NBC Sports Chicago in the region)
Dish Network (satellite; also in dispute with NBC Sports Chicago this makes D* the #1 satellite service for sports in the region by default.)
WOW (cable)

*Streaming / vMVPDs*
fuboTV
Sling TV (won't have Marquee unless Dish reaches a deal)
YouTube TV

Updated Sports Availability on Streaming Service chart to reflect Hulu & Marquee


----------



## Sandra (Apr 16, 2012)

Thank you for the chart, that is extremely informative. Just to clarify, since most of the regional sports channels are blank under Sling does that mean they are not available at all, or not available out of market?

We are in the NY DMA and my main question is if we would be able to watch our teams on our local RSN's...i.e. MSG Network. 

Thanks in advance. 

Sandra


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

Sandra said:


> Thank you for the chart, that is extremely informative. Just to clarify, since most of the regional sports channels are blank under Sling does that mean they are not available at all, or not available out of market?
> 
> We are in the NY DMA and my main question is if we would be able to watch our teams on our local RSN's...i.e. MSG Network.
> 
> ...


Not available at all, Sling is owned by Dish Network.


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

The biggest thing that stands out looking at that chart is how much YTTV has covered at the $50 price point.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

I think a better question might be...

Is there any streaming service that gives you ALL of the RSNs - regardless of what your home or current zip code is? I'm not talking about actual ball games - I understand the blackout restrictions for that. (And I understand that ALL can be subjective, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say all or most of the RSNs that have a contract with an MLB club).

But I'm saying... for example... as an out-of-market Cubs fan, is there a streaming service out there that will give me the Marquee Network? So I can watch the pre and post games, understanding that the moment the Cubs game starts, it will get blacked out for me. Or Fox Sports Wisconsin with the Brewers games blacked out.

I'm not aware of any such streaming service. Why is that?

Since Sinclair owns most of the Fox Sports regional networks (all?) ... this to me it would seem to be a no brainer... create an OTT solution that delivers all of the Sinclair owned regional sports content... with games out of areas blacked out. If no other streaming provider is going to do this (what's stopping them?) then why can't Sinclair go at it alone?

Despite what all of these MLB teams claim... they can claim areas far out from their city as being within their "local" market. And maybe they're not aware of it... but people in those "fringe" areas do not get access to their games, because YoutubeTV and Hulu and DirecTV without the Sports Pack is not giving those people access to the necessary RSN.

If YoutubeTV gets mad that Sinclair develops an OTT streaming service to stream St. Louis Cardinals games every where within the St. Louis Cardinals "local" area... then maybe YoutubeTV needs to look at why they aren't giving access to Fox Sports Midwest to every zip code within the St. Louis Cardinals viewing area or provide some buffer channel for actually showing Cardinals games to those zip codes.


----------



## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

evotz said:


> But I'm saying... for example... as an out-of-market Cubs fan, is there a streaming service out there that will give me the Marquee Network? So I can watch the pre and post games, understanding that the moment the Cubs game starts, it will get blacked out for me. Or Fox Sports Wisconsin with the Brewers games blacked out.
> 
> I'm not aware of any such streaming service. Why is that?


Hulu has very recently announced it has reached a deal with Marquee, along with AT&T TV NOW. In replies to questions from Twitter, Marquee says "it has had conversations with YTTV", but no deal has yet to be reached.

There's a thread in the D* programming forum that goes deep into the Marquee Sports Network.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

B. Shoe said:


> Hulu has very recently announced it has reached a deal with Marquee, along with AT&T TV NOW. In replies to questions from Twitter, Marquee says "it has had conversations with YTTV", but no deal has yet to be reached.
> 
> There's a thread in the D* programming forum that goes deep into the Marquee Sports Network.


But you'll only get Marquee if you are within some arbitrary area around Chicago.

You'll only get Fox Sports Midwest if you are within some arbitrary area around St. Louis.

This is true with any of these streaming services. Why?

If I'm in Miami Florida and I want to see the pre and post game shows for the Cubs - my option is DirecTV with the Sports Pack - that's it. Why?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

evotz said:


> Since Sinclair owns most of the Fox Sports regional networks (all?) ... this to me it would seem to be a no brainer... create an OTT solution that delivers all of the Sinclair owned regional sports content... with games out of areas blacked out. If no other streaming provider is going to do this (what's stopping them?) then why can't Sinclair go at it alone?


Sinclair owns 21 "Fox" RSNs, part of YES and the new Marquee network. There are a few RSNs they don't own.

The biggest impediment I see to Sinclair launching a streaming service is their contracts with DIRECTV and local cable systems. Their content is more valuable to DIRECTV and cable if customers can't get it direct from Sinclair. Selling it separate will undercut their deals with their current distributors.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

But who gets to decide who gets what RSNs?

I can only speak for where I live, and I know it's not just this area.

Here in Western KY, we're in the St. Louis Cardinals territory. Yet YoutubeTV and HuluTV don't list Fox Sports Midwest as being available in this zip code.

Who decides what zip codes get Fox Sports Midwest?

The Cardinals? Surely not, otherwise... they can remove their stake to this zip code as being part of their "local" area.

Fox Sports Midwest / Sinclair? Why would they want to limit the reach of their content? The further they reach, the more eyes their advertisers reach. Now, granted, they can't show St. Louis Cardinals baseball games to those out in Los Angeles, but they could show everything but.

TV Providers / like YoutubeTV? I know Youtube offers Fox Sports Midwest... put in a zip code for southern Illinois or Southeast Missouri and it shows up. But not in Western KY.

Is there a law that says they can only offer 2 regional sports networks? Is the amount they paid for access to Fox Sports Midwest limited to certain zip codes?

Why not a middle ground? Have YoutubeTV? Log into Fox Sports Go with your YoutubeTV credentials. Fox Sports Go gets to see that "hey you're in one of those stupid areas that is suppose to get Cardinals games, but Youtube was too cheap to pay for your zip code to get it... so you can buy Cardinals games for $xx.xx"

But the greater question still remains, why isn't Fox Sports Midwest offered to everyone within the St. Louis Cardinals "local" area?

This is just a real grind my gears topics.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

evotz said:


> But the greater question still remains, why isn't Fox Sports Midwest offered to everyone within the St. Louis Cardinals "local" area?


A good question. One would think that the RSN would negotiate their coverage area to include the combined footprint of their teams. It is a similar situation as discussed earlier with DIRECTV's RSN carriage ... teams claiming my area as local are not available on the RSNs included in Choice in my area. At least they are available in Sports Pack/Premier.

If it were up to me FS Midwest would be carried in the entire in market footprint. It isn't up to me.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

evotz said:


> Is there any streaming service that gives you ALL of the RSNs - regardless of what your home or current zip code is? I'm not talking about actual ball games - I understand the blackout restrictions for that. (And I understand that ALL can be subjective, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say all or most of the RSNs that have a contract with an MLB club).
> 
> But I'm saying... for example... as an out-of-market Cubs fan, is there a streaming service out there that will give me the Marquee Network? So I can watch the pre and post games, understanding that the moment the Cubs game starts, it will get blacked out for me. Or Fox Sports Wisconsin with the Brewers games blacked out.
> 
> I'm not aware of any such streaming service. Why is that?


I'm not aware of any way to access an out-of-market RSN and only get part of the programming (i.e. the non-live sports stuff). I just don't think that exists.

For anyone wanting access to out-of-market baseball, the only (legal) option I'm aware of is MLB.TV. It gives you access to out-of-market games, live and then on-demand, regardless of which RSNs are airing the game in the two local markets. You have three options:

Entire season subscription for all teams: $121.99
Entire season subscription for one team: $93.99
Monthly subscription for all teams:$24.99

I've used the app on my Apple TV and it's very slick. But I don't think the service gives you access to content other than the actual games themselves. If you're mainly interested in an RSN's pre- and post-game talk shows, I don't think MLB.TV gives you that, although I could be wrong.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> RSN's pre- and post-game talk shows, I don't think MLB.TV gives you that


It doesn't but it would be nice if it did.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> I'm not aware of any way to access an out-of-market RSN and only get part of the programming (i.e. the non-live sports stuff). I just don't think that exists.


The Sports Pack with DirecTV will. At least, that was the case a few years back when I subscribed to the Sports Pack. I'd get all of the non-live sports (don't think I got replays either... but can't really remember that) for all of the RSNs that DirecTV offered.



NashGuy said:


> For anyone wanting access to out-of-market baseball, the only (legal) option I'm aware of is MLB.TV. It gives you access to out-of-market games, live and then on-demand, regardless of which RSNs are airing the game in the two local markets.


That's just it.

The market reach that teams define and the stretch that their partnered RSN reach into are two different things.

Each team has a defined list of zip codes that they call their "home" market. Those teams partner with various regional sports networks to broadcast those games.

The trouble is that team list of zip codes and the zip codes that get that partnered RSN from DirecTV (without the sports pack), Hulu Live TV, and Youtube TV (are there other streaming partners? Sling does not do RSNs as I'm aware) are two different things.

Example. The zip code 42051 is in the Cardinals territory. The Cardinals are broadcast on Fox Sports Midwest. Look up that zip code on Hulu Live TV and Youtube TV, Fox Sports Midwest will not be listed. My question is why?

Now look up another zip code - 62906 - on both Hulu Live TV and Youtube TV, this zip code is also in Cardinals territory. It lists Fox Sports Midwest on both. So I know both Youtube TV and Hulu Live TV have an agreement with Fox Sports Midwest - but yet something is preventing that agreement from stretching into KY.

And I know this isn't the only example. Is this only a Fox Sports Midwest issue? Didn't I remember reading about people in western Iowa - Cubs territory - who were unable to get NBC Sports Chicago for Cubs games last year? Maybe that changes with Marquee. Or any other teams?

I just really don't understand - and that's not to say there isn't a real reason for it - why if Youtube is paying Fox Sports Midwest for their content... why does Youtube care who gets Fox Sports Midwest? Why does Fox Sports Midwest care who gets to watch their content? I understand that MLB cares about who gets to watch baseball games and that's why blackouts exists (forcing out-of-market people to get either mlb.tv or Extra Innings). But you have to also understand if the zip code you live in is considered Cardinals territory, but the zip code you live in can't get Fox Sports Midwest on Youtube TV or Hulu TV or DirecTV (without the sports pack) then there's no way to get the Cardinals games.

I guess "regional" implies that it's only available for certain regions - although, I'd argue that the nation has become more national than it was 20 or 30 years ago. You could also make the argument, regional implies that it's reporting coverage is regional. I can't go to Fox Sports Midwest and expect to see Dodger highlights.

Like I said, this is really just a grind my gears issue for me. I'm still hoping (although I seriously doubt anything will happen for the 2020 season) for an OTT solution. Because if Youtube TV and Hulu TV aren't going to give me access to all of the Cardinal games that I should be getting since I'm in Cardinals territory... then there needs to be a better solution.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

evotz said:


> The Sports Pack with DirecTV will. At least, that was the case a few years back when I subscribed to the Sports Pack. I'd get all of the non-live sports (don't think I got replays either... but can't really remember that) for all of the RSNs that DirecTV offered.


Ah, yes, there's DTV's Sports Pack. But I didn't realize that it blacked out all the live sports. Seems weird to me that anyone would want to pay for a package of RSNs if they didn't give you access to any of the actual sports.



evotz said:


> That's just it.
> 
> The market reach that teams define and the stretch that their partnered RSN reach into are two different things.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you're pretty much screwed, it seems, given that you live in that western wedge end of KY. It's like the cable TV services want to define the whole state of KY as Reds territory, so you can't get the Cardinals RSN, even though you're way closer to St. Louis than Cincinnati. (Actually, you're even closer to me here in Nashville than you are to St. Louis, although we don't have an MLB team.) Meanwhile, MLB.TV defines your zip code as being both Reds *and* Cardinals territory, so they won't give you access to either team.

Given your town's location, I'd think that the Cards would be more popular than the Reds there. Do you have a local cable company, like Charter or Comcast? Do they carry Fox Sports Midwest? That would seem like your only hope there to watch the Cards.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

When I lived in one of the...um... cities here, that actually had cable. I do believe they had the Cardinals games. Now I'm not certain if it was a dedicated Fox Sports Midwest channel or if they just subbed in the Cardinals game onto a certain channel when the game was on. That was.. gosh... 20 years ago? Too long ago for me to remember and I was working a different job and didn't really watch as many baseball games back then.

But where I live now... no, there is no cable. It's either satellite or streaming (luckily my Internet is really good). I'm getting a little tired of paying DirecTV the bookoos of money for stuff that I never watch - but it seems like it's really the only option to get Cardinals games where I live.

Fortunately, I'm not really a Cardinals fan - I just kind of hate to miss the Cardinals/Cubs games when they play. But I just really don't know if it's worth the $30+ it will cost (difference between DirecTV + Sports Pack + mlb.tv vs. YouTube TV + mlb.tv) just to get the Cardinals games.

I do have several relatives that are in the same boat, and many of them are Cardinals fans. So I'm looking out for their interests too. But there's just no other option.

It's cheaper for me (as an out of market baseball fan) to get Youtube TV + mlb.tv and get "most" of my teams (Cubs) games (everything except the Cardinals games)... about $76/mo ($55 Youtube + about $21/mo for mlb.tv if you pay for the full season). For Cardinals fans here... it's going to be about $110/mo and probably more to get a DirecTV package plus the $13/mo Sports Pack.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

evotz said:


> Like I said, this is really just a grind my gears issue for me. I'm still hoping (although I seriously doubt anything will happen for the 2020 season) for an OTT solution. Because if Youtube TV and Hulu TV aren't going to give me access to all of the Cardinal games that I should be getting since I'm in Cardinals territory... then there needs to be a better solution.


Have you tried using the Fox Sports Go app and logging in with your credentials for whatever you are using, ie....YTTV, Hulu Live TV, DirecTV etc? I can watch the Cardinals with it using the app and entering my DirecTV credentials. However I get the Fox Sports Midwest channel but you might be able to get it that way.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

No... Fox Sports Go does not offer Fox Sports Midwest with my DirecTV credentials. I doubt Youtube or Hulu would be any different... but I'd be fine with having to go through this process if it did happen to work.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Ah, yes, there's DTV's Sports Pack. But I didn't realize that it blacked out all the live sports. Seems weird to me that anyone would want to pay for a package of RSNs if they didn't give you access to any of the actual sports.


The Sports Pack helps in places where the viewer is in market for a team (in my case, the Detroit Tigers and Cincinnati Reds) that is on an RSN not carried in the base package. Yep, Choice plus a $9.99 RSN fee doesn't deliver all teams claiming my area as "in market".

There are also other sports on the RSNs that are not blacked out - and if you are a fan of a distant team you can see their pregame, postgame and other recap shows that are not available via the league pass packages.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

James Long said:


> The Sports Pack helps in places where the viewer is in market for a team (in my case, the Detroit Tigers and Cincinnati Reds) that is on an RSN not carried in the base package. Yep, Choice plus a $9.99 RSN fee doesn't deliver all teams claiming my area as "in market".


So you don't have a way to get all baseball games either? Aside from DirecTV + Sports Pack + Extra Innings/mlb.tv (if you care about any out of market teams)? And aside from any possible cable package.

I've just always kind of wondered if the Sports Pack isn't just a way for DirecTV to stick it to the customer. I mean... does any of the price we pay for the Sports Pack actually go towards the carriage fee for these extra RSNs? Or is it just DirecTV saying "well... we could give everybody all of the RSNs since we've paid for them anyway... but if we make a separate Sports Pack addon package, maybe we'll find some idiots willing to pay us even more money." And then some nerd with ambitions for rising up the ladder shouts out "OH! Let's just not give everyone the RSNs they need to get full coverage for all of the teams they should be getting and that will give them an incentive to buy this superfluous Sports Pack and give us more money!"


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

evotz said:


> No... Fox Sports Go does not offer Fox Sports Midwest with my DirecTV credentials. I doubt Youtube or Hulu would be any different... but I'd be fine with having to go through this process if it did happen to work.


Have you tried that in season. Your DirecTV credentials may not work until the season begins, Also you can try it at the Fox Sports Midwest website. Again it may have to be in season to work. You can watch the Cardinals with MLB-TV though right?


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> Have you tried that in season.


Yep!



b4pjoe said:


> You can watch the Cardinals with MLB-TV though right?


Nope. Cardinals are in territory for me (and in fact the closest MLB team to me). So MLB.tv and Extra Innings for those games is out.

The only way that I'm really aware of that allows me to watch the Cardinals game (with no cable TV options) is DirecTV with Choice + Sports Pack. Which... I believe is close to $120/mo for me.

Starting to understand my frustration (and the frustration of my relatives... really my relatives are more frustrated than I am) now?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

evotz said:


> I've just always kind of wondered if the Sports Pack isn't just a way for DirecTV to stick it to the customer. I mean... does any of the price we pay for the Sports Pack actually go towards the carriage fee for these extra RSNs?


In general. carriers pay the channels for every customer who receives the channel. A customer who chooses not to subscribe to Sports Pack is a customer that DIRECTV does not need to pay the channel for carriage.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

evotz said:


> Yep!
> 
> Nope. Cardinals are in territory for me (and in fact the closest MLB team to me). So MLB.tv and Extra Innings for those games is out.
> 
> ...


OK I think I see now. You do get the game on Fox Sports Midwest but you have to DirecTV with Choice + Sports Pack. I assume you just get the games and not other content from Fox Sports Midwest or do you get Fox Sports Midwest all the time with Choice + Sports Pack.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> OK I think I see now. You do get the game on Fox Sports Midwest but you have to DirecTV with Choice + Sports Pack. I assume you just get the games and not other content from Fox Sports Midwest or do you get Fox Sports Midwest all the time with Choice + Sports Pack.


Sports Pack is the entire channel content except any blacked out sports.


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

When I had the Sports Pack - I got Fox Sports Midwest all the time. I got all the RSNs all the time.

Does Youtube TV or Hulu TV have a Sports Pack addon that would function the same way as DirecTV's Sports Pack?

It just seems to me that Youtube TV or Hulu TV or whatever streaming service would stand to gain substantial numbers if they could somehow offer all of the "in-market" games for their respective service area. Even if a Sports Pack costs $15 with Youtube TV... if it'd give me the Cardinals games on Fox Sports Midwest... $50 + $15 = $65... that's still a far cry from the the $120 I'd have to pay with DirecTV.

Or... is that $50 that Youtube charges... is that like the $93 DirecTV Choice package... that winds up being about $118 when you add this fee, that fee, the RSN fee, and every other fee? Is that $50 Youtube package really $50 (probably plus sales tax) or is it $50 + $5 because we can fee + $7 ha! you thought that was the only fee we were going to charge fee + $9 you really thought it was going to be $50? fee.

(Looks like I've been quoting Youtube TV as $55 when it's really $50... Hulu is $55... although I seem to recall hearing rumors that Youtube was going up to $55 too ... either way you slice it... still cheaper than DirecTV)


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Using my zip code with YTTV this would be the sports networks I would get. Those are included in the base $50 package.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

evotz said:


> No... Fox Sports Go does not offer Fox Sports Midwest with my DirecTV credentials. I doubt Youtube or Hulu would be any different... but I'd be fine with having to go through this process if it did happen to work.


I would certainly try. I just logged into Fox Sports Go using my YTTV credentials and right on the home page it has the Cardinals and Twins spring training games today at noon and Pacers and Timberwolves games tomorrow at 5pm.

When I had what was called DirecTV Now, I had to go through the Fox Sports Go app with those log in credentials to watch the Royals as the only FS Midwest feed DirecTV Now carried was the St Louis feed.

https://www.foxsports.com/midwest/s...louis-cardinals-games-on-fox-sports-go-040116

If all else fails as no offense, but you're making my head hurt. https://www.foxsports.com/midwest/story/contact-us-091215


----------



## evotz (Jan 23, 2014)

garn9173 said:


> I would certainly try. I just logged into Fox Sports Go using my YTTV credentials and right on the home page it has the Cardinals and Twins spring training games today at noon and Pacers and Timberwolves games tomorrow at 5pm.


What regional sports networks do you get with your Youtube TV subscription?


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

evotz said:


> What regional sports networks do you get with your Youtube TV subscription?


Does the chart in post #3 cover what you are looking for?


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

He is in Western Kentucky, Cardinals home territory, but YTTV does not list Fox Sports Midwest (RSN for Cardinals) as available for his zip code.


----------



## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

evotz said:


> What regional sports networks do you get with your Youtube TV subscription?


"Fox" Sports Midwest/Midwest+, "Fox" Sports North (Twin Cities) and NBC Sports Chicago and most certainly Marquee (the Cubs RSN) when the two strike a carriage agreement


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

My area is messed up when it comes to RSNs. My address and zip code falls under Cincinnati Reds and Cleveland Indians territory and D*, AT&T TV Now, Hulu + Live TV and YTTV provides the RSNs I'm supposed to receive.

My cable provider Armstrong doesn't carry SportsTime Ohio for my address (Southern OH close to WV border) and if I attempt to order MLB EI through Armstrong I'm blacked out of Indians games however they are the only provider in my area offering AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh. If I have MLB EI through Armstrong I can watch the Pirates on either AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh or through MLB Extra Innings through Armstrong. With D*, AT&T TV Now, Hulu + Live TV and YTTV I need MLB EI or MLB.tv to watch the Pirates. Go figure that one out.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Sinclair owns 21 "Fox" RSNs, part of YES and the new Marquee network. There are a few RSNs they don't own.
> 
> The biggest impediment I see to Sinclair launching a streaming service is their contracts with DIRECTV and local cable systems. Their content is more valuable to DIRECTV and cable if customers can't get it direct from Sinclair. Selling it separate will undercut their deals with their current distributors.


Don't forget there is also the issue of if they have the rights to the games to stream them over the top sold standalone as well... they may not.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The assumption is that the leagues would release in market streaming rights.
Sinclair's behavior with Marquee is contrary to the prospect of having a national RSN package (without games out of market).


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tennis Channel is now part of AT&T TV Now's Max package. Marquee Sports has been added for those who are in territory. (The C71KW has a bug where you can ask Google Assistant to take you to a channel number of an RSN the AT&T TV/TV Now supports however you will get a blackout message.)

No other channels were added to AT&T TV Now's Max package.


----------



## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

James Long said:


> The assumption is that the leagues would release in market streaming rights.
> Sinclair's behavior with Marquee is contrary to the prospect of having a national RSN package (without games out of market).


Do the leagues own the local rights or the teams? A number of teams have their own network for local coverage.

Seems that the leagues control out-of-market, and 4 of the top 5 pro leagues (I'll add MLS) have non-nationally broadcast out-of-market games available by streaming. All of them stream the local broadcast nation-wide.

Regardless, as the rights renew and the market matures, today's answer won't be the same as tomorrow's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The answer varies, as you note. I see a report that MLB is releasing local rights back to the teams. The NFL had a weird mix of streaming rights that may still be in play.

Not having streaming rights would certainly get in the way of offering a streaming package. I don't know if the purchased streaming rights are limited as inkahauts suggests (can stream in market, but can't sell streaming separate from a MVPD or vMVPD subscription).

But assuming that all the rights are in place, I see offering a "stream only" package to be hazardous to a channel's agreements with the MVPD and vMVPDs with which they have agreements. I'd expect the MVPDs to ask for concessions (such as lower carriage rates or a la carte sale of the channels).


----------



## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

MLS's rights come up in 2022, and they've made it a point to ensure none of the teams have local deals beyond that. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

MLS preparing comprehensive TV rights deal for 2022

Keep in mind, MLS owners also own Soccer United Marketing (SUM) that markets the rights for US Soccer and others...

Soccer United Marketing - Wikipedia

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

