# No SNY now?!? OK, this is getting ridiculous



## mcss1985 (Dec 6, 2007)

Alright, I understand that Dish has to negotiate deals with providers to keep our rates low and so on and so on, but this is really getting out of had. 

I also realize that Dish has always had a reputation of not catering to the sports fans, but come on!

Apparently Dish is in talks with SNY right now (I know nothing more than it says when you tune to the channel) so we'll see what happens I guess, but here is a list of all the New York professional sports teams that you can watch now on Dish:


Oh you were expecting there to actually be a team listed there? Sorry, out of the 7 professional sports teams from the 3 major sports (not including football, because that is a different animal) in the New York area, a grand total of 0 are available on Dish now.

Dish hasn't had YES forever so no Yankees and no reasonable chance of getting them anytime soon.
They took away MSG and MSG+ (neither of which were in HD, so almost useless anyway) last year, so no Knicks, Nets, Rangers, Islanders, or Devils now.
And now we are without SNY, so no Mets. Once again we miss opening day.

Dish is also the only provider that doesn't offer MLBEI and it doesn't look like they will anytime soon, so that's not an option.
MLB.TV is nice, but it won't let you watch games from your market so that's not an option either.

I love Dish is almost every way except when it comes to this. Which is why this is so disappointing. I don't plan on leaving Dish, I like the service too much. I know that switching or adding another provider is an option, I just really don't feel I should have to and I won't because its not that important to me. I just wonder how many others will be so patient. /end rant 

Well, we'll see what happens with the SNY thing, these things usually get resolved fairly quickly, but there's no telling.

Anyone have any insight on the SNY deal or any opinions about the lack of sports in the biggest market in the country?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

http://www.iwantmymets.com/

The FAQ page on that site has DISH's comments, including:
*Why does DISH Network continue to take away teams from NYC?*

The cost of Regional Sport Networks continues to grow at an alarming pace. This makes each negotiation increasingly more difficult. We recognize how important this programming is to our customers. We are committed to working toward a fair agreement.​
I don't see anything on SNY.TV about the issue.

BTW: Last I checked DirecTV was losing YES tonight.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> BTW: Last I checked DirecTV was losing YES tonight.


The contract expires tonight. There has been some indication that it will remain on the air during negotiations however.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

SNY's page about it is http://www.keepsny.com


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Why not leave DISH if your so upset? I'm not upset but I didn't get DISH for sports.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Seems both sides are sticking to the usual scripts. Bet you won't see one DISH supportive comment on the SNY site ... even if you submit one yourself. They could just use the same ones that FoxSports ran last year.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

"James Long" said:


> BTW: Last I checked DirecTV was losing YES tonight.


more than likely, No. Negotiations, but indications are that the channel will remain up during the negotiations.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

_Anyone have any insight on the SNY deal or any opinions about the lack of sports in the biggest market in the country?_

Works for me. Stop catering to the big money jocks.

Sent from my keyboard using my fingers.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

"SayWhat?" said:


> Anyone have any insight on the SNY deal or any opinions about the lack of sports in the biggest market in the country?
> 
> Works for me. Stop catering to the big money jocks.
> 
> Sent from my keyboard using my fingers.


I am with both Direct and Dish during these negotiations

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## mcss1985 (Dec 6, 2007)

boba said:


> Why not leave DISH if your so upset? I'm not upset but I didn't get DISH for sports.


I didn't get Dish for sports only either, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to know what is happening to a channel that I used to get and enjoy very much. Why must everyone automatically jump to "well just leave then". I enjoy Dish very much and would like to keep it, therefore I would like them to carry channels that I enjoy.

Contrary to some peoples beliefs here, it is ok to criticize a company once in a while. I'm not calling for the pitchforks or anything. I'm looking for more information about this issue and to convey my opinion that I'm unhappy about this one issue (and I'm sure so others). It doesn't mean I'm damning the whole company or anything.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

mcss1985 said:


> Contrary to some peoples beliefs here, it is ok to criticize a company once in a while.


No problem, but criticize the *right* villain, which would be MLB.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm a Mets fan. The villain's the Mets. They're broke, the Wilpons are crooks and they need to sell the team. SNY is just their latest blunder.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Back when Comcast Sportsnet Cali was taken down, it was mentioned that ALL Comcast sports channels were 'out of contract' and had been for some time. SNY is owned by Comcast. It was never clear whether the aggreement w/ CSN Cali applied to ALL Comcast channels or just CSN Cali. So its quite possible that SNY has been out of contract for quite sometime, and nows the perfect time to take it away, to use the MLB as leverage to finally get an aggreement done.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

40% of the average cable/satellite is due to sports channels. Obviously, the best way to reduce cost is not to subscribe to sports channels. Unfortunately, the powers of "be" don't allow this without unsubscribing to all cable/satellite channels (locals are excepted).


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

DodgerKing said:


> more than likely, No. Negotiations, but indications are that the channel will remain up during the negotiations.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


Told ya...



> We have granted DirecTV an extension until Thursday, April 7, in order to continue negotiating with the goal of reaching a new agreement.


http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110402&content_id=17281768&vkey=1&oid=

Sports channels need DirecTV more than they need Dish, so they will be willing to be a little more flexible with carriage during negotiations with Direct vs Dish, for the most part (Versus being an exception of course)


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

boba said:


> Why not leave DISH if your so upset? I'm not upset but I didn't get DISH for sports.


Every Sunday night I watch Sunday night Baseball on ESPN. That's all I need and want.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DodgerKing said:


> Sports channels need DirecTV more than they need Dish, so they will be willing to be a little more flexible with carriage during negotiations with Direct vs Dish, for the most part (Versus being an exception of course)


Seems co-dependent to me. If YES sticks to their guns they could go away just as easily as Versus. Sports channels need MONEY more than they need DirecTV or DISH. If they believe they will make more money by setting a higher price and sticking to it they will - remembering that DirecTV needs sports more than DISH needs sports.

DirecTV has a reputation to uphold ... DISH's reputation is easier to uphold.


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## Milleruszk (Apr 12, 2005)

I have been a Dish subscriber for the past 5 years. I agree with the other posters that said they like Dish. I do too but tomorrow I am having Direct TV installed. I would have stayed with Dish but no MSG and now no SNY? This means that there are 0 NY sports teams available on Dish. I don't know how they can be competitive in the NY market.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Its not just NY, allthough NY is certainly the most affected w/ 4 channels missing (this would include upstate NY and western NY). The entire Southeastern states are missing Comcast Sports Southeast. Florida is missing Brighthouse sports network; Time Warner Cable sportschannel is also missing in Florida...and Texas....and whereever else they have a sportschannel. I suspect the Time Warner Sports West channel that will be created next year for the Laker games will be missing in southern cal. Comcast Sportsnet Northwest has never been on satelite, and of course neither has Comcast Sportsnet Philly. Those poor Philly fans.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Milleruszk said:


> This means that there are 0 NY sports teams available on Dish. I don't know how they can be competitive in the NY market.


Dish knows that not everyone is an athletic supporter.


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## jbeers65 (Mar 11, 2006)

mcss1985 said:


> Alright, I understand that Dish has to negotiate deals with providers to keep our rates low and so on and so on, but this is really getting out of had.
> 
> I also realize that Dish has always had a reputation of not catering to the sports fans, but come on!
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. I wish they could offer MSG, SNY, and YES as an ala cart option so those of us that were willing to subscribe to these networks could do so.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Our cable system used to offer our RSN as an "A la carte", Home Team Sports, which became Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic. As I recall it was either $5 or $6 a month, and that was back in the '80s. Those were the days. At the time I thought it was rediculous but today I'm kinda leaning towards it.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

The cable channel providers won't allow most channels to be offered a la carte. Charlie has been trying to get legislation on that for many years.

I wish there were a Kids tier and a Sports tier so I could save the money on my bill. Why should I have to pay for these costly channels if I don't use them?


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## Milleruszk (Apr 12, 2005)

I had Direct TV installed today and cancelled Dish. When I called Dish to cancel the CSR seemed to be well aware of this situation in NY. Losing MSG last Oct sealed it for me. Losing SNY is just another straw on the camel's back.


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## scorpion43 (Mar 16, 2011)

Milleruszk said:


> I had Direct TV installed today and cancelled Dish. When I called Dish to cancel the CSR seemed to be well aware of this situation in NY. Losing MSG last Oct sealed it for me. Losing SNY is just another straw on the camel's back.


buhh byeee:wave::wave:


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Milleruszk said:


> I had Direct TV installed today and cancelled Dish. When I called Dish to cancel the CSR seemed to be well aware of this situation in NY. Losing MSG last Oct sealed it for me. Losing SNY is just another straw on the camel's back.


Can't blame you at all.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Milleruszk" said:


> I had Direct TV installed today and cancelled Dish. When I called Dish to cancel the CSR seemed to be well aware of this situation in NY. Losing MSG last Oct sealed it for me. Losing SNY is just another straw on the camel's back.


A wise decision. I think you'll be very happy with your choice and you get to enjoy better picture quality as well!


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

PQ is still a red herring. Go for the sports. "YOUR PERCEIVABLE PQ WILL BE HIGHER IF YOU SIT 5 INCHES FROM THE SCREEN" is a ridiculous argument.


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## la24philly (Mar 9, 2010)

if you need sny, it maybe time to unfortantly tombstone dish network and pick soemone who does.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

Dish Network is toast. I switched back to DirecTV when they lost the Fox channels and now no one in NYC can see any of their teams. Dish will be bankrupt and bought by DirecTV within a few years anyway,


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^^^ NOT!


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Eksynyt said:


> Dish Network is toast. I switched back to DirecTV when they lost the Fox channels and now no one in NYC can see any of their teams. Dish will be bankrupt and bought by DirecTV within a few years anyway,


and the Mets will win the world series for the next four years!


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

A la carte would mean higher rates and less channels.


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## whalerfan (May 31, 2007)

adkinsjm said:


> A la carte would mean higher rates and less channels.


This is a classic argument. However, why not try it. We are asked to pay for channels we'll never watch and are shut out of those that we'd like. I have no problem with any channel trying to make a buck, but I do not appreciate when the providers change the rules mid-stream as is the case with SNY. With my package I pay an extra $5 for my RSN's. Now one is gone and in a month I won't need the other (CSNNE) and I don't care about the Red Sox or Bruins so basically I'm paying an additional $5 for a channel I don't need. Plus with Dish, if I were to drop this portion of my package, I'd have to pay $5 to do it.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

whalerfan said:


> This is a classic argument. However, why not try it.


A la carte has been tried...it failed. Unless you want fewer choices and higher prices, let's not repeat that mistake.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Eksynyt said:


> Dish Network is toast. I switched back to DirecTV when they lost the Fox channels and now no one in NYC can see any of their teams. Dish will be bankrupt and bought by DirecTV within a few years anyway,


It ain't going to happen, troll.


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

Eksynyt said:


> Dish Network is toast. I switched back to DirecTV when they lost the Fox channels and now no one in NYC can see any of their teams. Dish will be bankrupt and bought by DirecTV within a few years anyway,


A.) As much as I have no use for Dish, it won't happen
B.) Even if they did go bankrupt, the FCC already didn't allow Dish to buy Directv several years ago. Why would they allow the reverse now?


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

zimm7778 said:


> A.) As much as I have no use for Dish, it won't happen
> B.) Even if they did go bankrupt, the FCC already didn't allow Dish to buy Directv several years ago. Why would they allow the reverse now?


Since then we now have the XM/SIRIUS merger and COMCAST getting NBC. Could change the arguements.


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## jbeers65 (Mar 11, 2006)

So I read an article last week from the NY Times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gadgets-You-Should-Get-Rid-Of-nytimes-1557697455.html?x=0

It was very interesting, as the topic was what technology to keep, and what to get rid of... when it came to cable TV (or satellite, I might add), it recommends keeping your cable because of the sports offered on cable/sat that is not available online.

What kind of business model is this for DishNetwork to drop what to many is the only real reason to keep Dish? We live in the northeast and everything is more expensive here.. we are used to it. Add YES, MSG and SNY to a Top 200+ package. Soccer is a la cart, and so are premium movie channels and others. Why is there a Top 150 and Top 150+ for sports? That seems like a la cart to me.

Very frustrated here. Upgraded recently and now have a contract until late 2012. Screwed again because I live .25 miles away from a Time Warner line.

So this summer no baseball, and this winter no SU basketball.


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## whalerfan (May 31, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> A la carte has been tried...it failed. Unless you want fewer choices and higher prices, let's not repeat that mistake.


This is what is always said about a la carte. Networks make billions simply for having the channel space. This is a veritable monopoly. I was not given a choice as to whether I wanted SNY or not. I was told that everyone's rate would go up because they wanted too much of an increase. It's been noted in this forum that the + in the package adds $5. I pay that extra money for the three RSN's that are in my area. Now I'm down to two. With the basketball season ending soon I'll realistically be down to one, for that same $5.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

whalerfan said:


> This is what is always said about a la carte. Networks make billions simply for having the channel space. This is a veritable monopoly. I was not given a choice as to whether I wanted SNY or not. I was told that everyone's rate would go up because they wanted too much of an increase. It's been noted in this forum that the + in the package adds $5. I pay that extra money for the three RSN's that are in my area. Now I'm down to two. With the basketball season ending soon I'll realistically be down to one, for that same $5.


Serving from (shaky) memory in previous threads on this issue, DISH offered providers (at least YES) to go a la carte and give them 100% of the money but they said no go. This is clearly because these channel providers are not just after the fans who are willing to pay, they want a bigger piece of the pie. The issue is over package placement. The bigger the package you're in the more $ to provider regardless of viewers. DISH doesn't operate that way, maybe they can't even at this late stage now that many die hard fans have already moved on to D*. A big package price increase to satisfy YES or SNY will not easily be absorbed by the masses. D* just pays, sometimes not right away, but always. That is their strategy and it is working. They have the sports diehards already in place so they have to. I would hazard a guess that not too many people are E* subscribers just for the sports.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The channel providers are the biggest block to a la carte. They want as many people to get their channel as possible ... not just so they have the opportunity to watch it, but because the channel provider gets paid for every subscriber whether they watch or not.

YES was looking for their "$2 per month" for every subscriber in the market, including those who chose AT120 without RSN. DISH wanted them at the usual RSN level (the same level as every other RSN in the country) - AT 120 Plus.

I wonder how many subscribers to AT200, AT250 and AEP would opt out of their local RSNs if given a chance? A lot more than an RSN is willing to lose. By negotiating to put their channel in a package instead of a la carte they end up with more money.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The channel providers are the biggest block to a la carte. They want as many people to get their channel as possible ... not just so they have the opportunity to watch it, but because the channel provider gets paid for every subscriber whether they watch or not.
> 
> YES was looking for their "$2 per month" for every subscriber in the market, including those who chose AT120 without RSN. DISH wanted them at the usual RSN level (the same level as every other RSN in the country) - AT 120 Plus.
> 
> I wonder how many subscribers to AT200, AT250 and AEP would opt out of their local RSNs if given a chance? A lot more than an RSN is willing to lose. By negotiating to put their channel in a package instead of a la carte they end up with more money.


For me, this whole issue is irritating as we're talking about a ripoff.

Many customers like movies and quality mini-series along with edgy drama. The normal payment for HBO, Showtime, and Starz is $33 a month.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if all the media delivery companies removed from all the packages the ESPN group and RSN's which probably would save $10± a month. It would probably cost sports enthusiasts $20-$30 a month for a sports package, in year 1.

At the rate things are going, it might cost $50 a month in a very few years. But it might do what is necessary - set a ceiling on the income in sports by creating a diminishing-returns scenario.

Or maybe we could just add HBO, Showtime and Starz into everyone's package along with all RSN's, special sports, etc. That would add maybe $50 to all the packages, but hey, we don't watch "Spongebob" in our home and we're subsidizing it. The least a single mom with three kids under the age of six could do is subsidize all the R-rated movies and shows plus all the professional and college sports.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> It wouldn't hurt my feelings if all the media delivery companies removed from all the packages the ESPN group and RSN's which probably would save $10± a month.


Been saying that for years. Offer all packages with or without sports add-ons. Let the athletic supporters pay extra if they want.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> Been saying that for years. Offer all packages with or without sports add-ons. Let the athletic supporters pay extra if they want.


I think E* would probably love to do it your way, but the RSN providers would never go for it and E* has no leverage. Look at the outcry over just one RSN lost this time. E* can't afford to lose them all (RSNs) even if they aren't a sports oriented service (contrary to their claim.) The fact that ALL other sat & cable cos give in to the demands hurts their position.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Are you referring to Dish?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Eksynyt said:


> Dish Network is toast. I switched back to DirecTV when they lost the Fox channels and now no one in NYC can see any of their teams. Dish will be bankrupt and bought by DirecTV within a few years anyway,


You don't know what you're talking about. The Feds didn't let Directv & Dish merge 10 years ago. They won't allow a buyout now.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> You don't know what you're talking about. The Feds didn't let Directv & Dish merge 10 years ago. They won't allow a buyout now.


But since the initial D/E merger failure, you have the XM/SIRIUS and NBC/COMCAST mergers. Maybe things will change for D/E.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> Are you referring to Dish?


Yes. E* = Echostar; D* = DirecTv.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

david_jr said:


> Yes. E* = Echostar; D* = DirecTv.


Well, going back a few months .....



James Long said:


> It's D* if you must use two letters, for most the reasons already given. We're moving away from that to a point because it is confusing to those who don't know the abbreviations and think D* is DISH Network (also abbreviated DN by people who are afraid to type the name). E* for Echostar kind of died a couple of years ago when DISH gave up that corporate name and split the company.
> 
> DISH and DirecTV are the abbreviations of choice. Please do not use "DTV" for DirecTV here ... it is too confusing as most of your readers will see that as OTA ATSC digital television.





Groundhog45 said:


> The moderators asked us a long time ago to use Dish and DirecTV instead of the abbreviations. Few seem to have gotten the memo.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=187662


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

For clarity: E* for DISH Network has *not* been banned from the forums.

Perhaps more time needs to be spent on discussing the topic and not obsessing over the abbreviations used? Since there is no other system that E* could be used as shorthand for it still works as shorthand for DISH.

See here for more acronyms.


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## tommiet (Dec 29, 2005)

Easy fix... Make all sports a Premium service so the folks that don't watch it, don't have to pay for it. And the folks that want to watch sports can pay for it.

Same as most movie services.......


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

tommiet said:


> Easy fix... Make all sports a Premium service so the folks that don't watch it, don't have to pay for it. And the folks that want to watch sports can pay for it.
> 
> Same as most movie services.......


I still don't think I should subsidize those who watch OWN or Bravo. Make those channels a premium service since the more customers want sports channels instead of those two.


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## tommiet (Dec 29, 2005)

shadough said:


> Our cable system used to offer our RSN as an "A la carte", Home Team Sports, which became Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic. As I recall it was either $5 or $6 a month, and that was back in the '80s. Those were the days. At the time I thought it was rediculous but today I'm kinda leaning towards it.


That same channel would be around $30.00 a month.... Glad Dish does not force me to have it...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tommiet said:


> Easy fix... Make all sports a Premium service so the folks that don't watch it, don't have to pay for it. And the folks that want to watch sports can pay for it.
> 
> Same as most movie services.......


It would be nice ... but the channel providers won't allow it.

The premium movie services like their status as "premiums" where people pay $13 per month for their package of channels and have agreed to sell their channels that way. The sports channels don't want to sell their channels that way. For sports channels, it is all or nothing.

SNY, YES, MSG and most channels contract with service providers to be delivered to millions of subscribers (not just the ones that want them) and refuse to sell their channels via that provider if they are not part of the package millions of subscribers receive. Which means if their delivery demands are not met NO customer of that service provider gets the channel.

Which is the situation we have here. SNY has their demands. If their demands are not met by DISH no one gets their channel via DISH. They take their ball and go home.

Perhaps we need legislation that would require SNY (and others) to allow their channels to be sold on an a la carte basis regardless of SNY's desires. I doubt such a law would be passed. The current "fair negotiation" rules are weak.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Why is everyone always wanting the government to to something "for" them.

Don't you realize the government has no interest in doing things "for" people.

All the government is interested in is order, not fairness.

If you upset the order, you are squashed.

If you go with the flow, you go along to get along.

The government will never make such a wholesale change without it's own interest at stake and I see no chance of that happening.

Only slow lava like evolution would lead to a change from block programming to a-la-carte and right now I see no movement nor any impetus for movement from where it will have to come, the providers of the programming.

Subscribers have little or no say in this matter.


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

James Long said:


> It would be nice ... but the channel providers won't allow it.
> 
> The premium movie services like their status as "premiums" where people pay $13 per month for their package of channels and have agreed to sell their channels that way. The sports channels don't want to sell their channels that way. For sports channels, it is all or nothing.
> 
> ...


I agree and as long as they get a big say in Congress and how a la carte could destroy niche channels it wont happen.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

How about a law for binding arbitration like you have in labor disputes. Government pretty much stays out. Two sides can't come to an agreement, the channel stays lit during negotiations, when they come to an impasse in negotiations (set forth time limit in legislation) and it automatically goes to an impartial arbitrator and the outcome is binding on both parties. Once the arbitrator decides a fair rate then Dish or Direct pays up for the amount owed for the negotiation period and pays the new rate going forward. Everybody wins. Charlie could blame the arbitrator for the increase.


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

James Long said:


> It would be nice ... but the channel providers won't allow it.
> 
> The premium movie services like their status as "premiums" where people pay $13 per month for their package of channels and have agreed to sell their channels that way. The sports channels don't want to sell their channels that way. For sports channels, it is all or nothing.
> 
> ...


Why should sport channels be singled out for al-la-carte treatment? I'm sure DirecTV and DISH would love to dump a ton of niche channels that usually exist on a digital tier on cable systems. There wouldn't be an outcry from too many customers, either, if those channels were removed.

Look at what happened with G4 and DirecTV. From message board posts, you would think the world ended for some viewers, but I doubt DirecTV lost more than a few thousands customers (that's being generous) as a result of pulling the channel.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> Why should sport channels be singled out for al-la-carte treatment?


Because they're the most expensive and cater to one of the narrowest markets. Nearly everybody watches at least some comedies, dramas, documentaries, game shows and movies.

If they were to make A&E or Discovery ala carte for example, they might be able to shave 5 or 10 cents off everybody else's package price. Doing that with ESPN, they might be able to save me $5 or more a month.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> Because they're the most expensive and cater to one of the narrowest markets. Nearly everybody watches at least some comedies, dramas, documentaries, game shows and movies.
> 
> If they were to make A&E or Discovery ala carte for example, they might be able to shave 5 or 10 cents off everybody else's package price. Doing that with ESPN, they might be able to save me $5 or more a month.


*+1.*


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

adkinsjm said:


> Why should sport channels be singled out for al-la-carte treatment?


I didn't say "a la carte for sports only". Sports channels were noted because, amazingly enough, this thread is ABOUT a sports channel - SNY.



> I'm sure DirecTV and DISH would love to dump a ton of niche channels that usually exist on a digital tier on cable systems. There wouldn't be an outcry from too many customers, either, if those channels were removed.


Perhaps they would need "protection" from any new a la carte rules. Perhaps any law that would require a channel to offer itself a la carte could be price based, not content based. If the channel has set a rate that would place it in the top 10 or 20 most expensive channels for a provider they would be required to allow their channel to be passed on a la carte? Not content based, but price based.

Most of the niche channels have their own market driven price controls. They know if they price themselves out of the marketplace they will be gone. So they allow themselves to be placed at higher tiers (less subscribers) with a buy through for people who want them or they go on the system a la carte. Or they keep their price down to where the provider is willing to place the channel at a lower level tier. Or they pay for carriage.

Sports channels have the unique leverage of being in reasonably high demand and having the highest prices. The biggest problem with a law that would require their channel to be offered a la carte is that it would push them to higher prices. $4-6 for the ESPN suite of channels could easily become a $15-20 list price package. Making all 13.9 million customers subscribe to ESPN gives ESPN the money they need to operate without putting the a la carte price through the roof. The sword has two edges.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

On AT250:

ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, HRTV, BIG10, CBS College, GOLF, NBA, NHL, NFL, FUEL, Outdoorsman, TENNIS and VS. That doesn't count all the 4XX, 5XX and 6XX alternate, regional, PPV and part time channels.

I'm not sure what AT250 without those would cost, but I'm sure it would be less that $70/mo.

Of course, I'll have to admit there are a lot of specialty international and foreign language channels I'd like to separate out also.

AT250 General
AT250 w/Foreign Language International
AT250 w/Sports
AT250 w/Foreign Language International & Sports


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Most foreign language channels ARE separate. DISH includes a few Spanish channels in their English packages. The China Central feeds and (last I knew) KBS feed are paying for their distribution (along with the PI channels in the 9390-9400's). Ignore the channels that pay for carriage ... they are not costing you anything (and most are there to fulfill a requirement of law).

Beyond English DISH customers can add more Spanish channels via the Latino Bonus Pack or any international channel packages sold on 118 and 61.5. A la carte lives in this realm.

Basically the only thing left to separate out (based on your post) is sports. The national feeds (140-156, 394-406) have negotiated their carriage levels. Is FSC+ on 406 really worth $14.99 per month a la carte? Perhaps to someone who wants it ... I would not want to see all of the sports channels split off at $14.99 each per month.

Their current distribution levels keep the price "reasonable" for most subscribers. Perhaps a "National Sports Pack" add on could be developed to add the AT200 and AT250 sports feeds to AT120+ without needing to buy AT250.

The real problem children are the regional sports networks (409-439). If they were offered a la carte they would likely lose enough subscribers that their price would have to shoot up. Me paying for the local RSNs I don't watch keeps the prices lower for my neighbors who do watch those RSNs.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> .. I would not want to see all of the sports channels split off at $14.99 each per month.


I didn't say 'each'. Add all of those (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, HRTV, BIG10, CBS College, GOLF, NBA, NHL, NFL, FUEL, Outdoorsman, TENNIS and VS.) that aren't already subscription for a single add-on fee of $14.99 or whatever. If dropping those could save me $15/mo, GREAT!

I'm not interesting in subsidizing my neighbors' choices.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> I didn't say 'each'. Add all of those (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, HRTV, BIG10, CBS College, GOLF, NBA, NHL, NFL, FUEL, Outdoorsman, TENNIS and VS.) that aren't already subscription for a single add-on fee of $14.99 or whatever. If dropping those could save me $15/mo, GREAT!


I didn't say YOU did. I just said I would not want to see that pricing.

Pulling the channels out of their current packages are a non-starter anyways. There is no way that ESPN et al would agree to that. They might allow a sports add-on to make the AT200 and AT250 channels accessible. But dropping out of the "millions of guaranteed subscribers" packages? That is not going to happen.


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> I didn't say 'each'. Add all of those (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPNU, HRTV, BIG10, CBS College, GOLF, NBA, NHL, NFL, FUEL, Outdoorsman, TENNIS and VS.) that aren't already subscription for a single add-on fee of $14.99 or whatever. If dropping those could save me $15/mo, GREAT!
> 
> I'm not interesting in subsidizing my neighbors' choices.


We live in a society where we all subsidize our neighbors to some extent. They are subsidizing your channel preferences and vice-versa.

If you don't want ESPN, I don't want the other channels you do watch. That should save me about $60/mo. GREAT!


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## NYBuddy (Mar 29, 2006)

Ok, maybe I am the only Mets fan left on this message board but.... is there a deal on the horizon between Dish and SNY? 
I just today ordered an upgrade to my TimeWarner internet/basic cable so I can get SNY over their "Advanced" channels (extra $25 a month- ouch) I am going to cancel this when a deal (hopefully) goes through.


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## jbeers65 (Mar 11, 2006)

NYBuddy said:


> Ok, maybe I am the only Mets fan left on this message board but.... is there a deal on the horizon between Dish and SNY?
> I just today ordered an upgrade to my TimeWarner internet/basic cable so I can get SNY over their "Advanced" channels (extra $25 a month- ouch) I am going to cancel this when a deal (hopefully) goes through.


I am guessing it will soon disappear like MSG did. I have been looking into DirectTV. It will cost more, but at least I will get Yankees, Mets, hockey, and Big East Basketball. Now all I get is ESPN and maybe some cricket games?


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

NYBuddy said:


> Ok, maybe I am the only Mets fan left on this message board but.... is there a deal on the horizon between Dish and SNY?
> I just today ordered an upgrade to my TimeWarner internet/basic cable so I can get SNY over their "Advanced" channels (extra $25 a month- ouch) I am going to cancel this when a deal (hopefully) goes through.


Not the only Mets fan here. FWIW, no one says they're a Mets fan if they're not. No one jumps on this bandwagon.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Agreed. It's been rough for us.


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## whalerfan (May 31, 2007)

No SNY will guarantee a switch to either UVerse or back to Directv upon the completion of my commitment. I signed up with certain expectations and knowing how Dish Network operates, so my eyes weren't closed.


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## Milleruszk (Apr 12, 2005)

Anyone in the NYC area that is any type of sports fan should seriously consider leaving Dish. No Rangers, Islanders, Devils, Knicks, Nets, RedBulls, Yankees, Mets or NYRA horse racing. I liked Dish but they could not or would not supply the local sports so I moved on. I would still be a customer if it wasn't for this issue.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

_Anyone in the NYC area that is any type of sports fan should seriously consider leaving Dish. _

SeeYaLaterBye. Don't let the door hit cha' in the backside on the way out.

Let Dish focus on real programming.


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## davejacobson (Mar 14, 2005)

What ever happened to your local network showing the games? Now its up to RSN and Team sponsored channels. It seems to me that the RSNs are the bullies in the room wanting all subscribers to pay for there service instead of just the fans.We all already pay for their stadiums with extra taxes. We subsidize them through our subscription for channels we dont watch. Whats next another tax so the ticket prices cost less? I'm no sports fan so I think the RSN bully needs to be pounded down and put back in their place.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Dish is crazy to not support sports fans. These days, what else is there besides live sports to keep people from cord-cutting??


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

"davejacobson" said:


> What ever happened to your local network showing the games? Now its up to RSN and Team sponsored channels. It seems to me that the RSNs are the bullies in the room wanting all subscribers to pay for there service instead of just the fans.We all already pay for their stadiums with extra taxes. We subsidize them through our subscription for channels we dont watch. Whats next another tax so the ticket prices cost less? I'm no sports fan so I think the RSN bully needs to be pounded down and put back in their place.


I subsidize the non-sports channels you watch.


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## luzernestudent (Mar 5, 2011)

Does anyone know if the *replay *of tonights Mets Dimondbacks game on FSN AZ channel 415 is going to be blacked out to viewers in the New York area??

This sucks big time!!!


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

luzernestudent said:


> Does anyone know if the *replay *of tonights Mets Dimondbacks game on FSN AZ channel 415 is going to be blacked out to viewers in the New York area??
> 
> This sucks big time!!!


The replay should be blacked out. You could subscribe to MLB.tv and watch the game on delay.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

adkinsjm said:


> I subsidize the non-sports channels you watch.


Not as much as I subsidize the SPORTS channels you watch.

I think the sports channels ought to be in their own optional package. Then we can see what the viewers really think they are worth.


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

scooper said:


> Not as much as I subsidize the SPORTS channels you watch.
> 
> I think the sports channels ought to be in their own optional package. Then we can see what the viewers really think they are worth.


You can see what they're worth by subscriber numbers. The number of satellite customers for Philadelphia is lower per capita than markets where an RSN is offered. Look at Dish Network's numbers in NYC.

It wasn't high, which probably had something to do with the lack of YES Network.

If sports channels go away, customers go away. If Lifetime goes away, I don't think too many people would care.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

adkinsjm said:


> You can see what they're worth by subscriber numbers. The number of satellite customers for Philadelphia is lower per capita than markets where an RSN is offered. Look at Dish Network's numbers in NYC.


Where? What is your comprehensive public source for subscribers per market? Or is this a case of "I read it on the Internet so it must be true"?


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## NYBuddy (Mar 29, 2006)

OK, now the channel itself is removed, I think that about says it all!


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## whalerfan (May 31, 2007)

NYBuddy said:


> OK, now the channel itself is removed, I think that about says it all!


Now we should change the thread to what are the penalties for early withdrawal. I noticed this the other day which just made me regret changing from Directv.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

$13 per month for each month remaining, IIRC. Plus $15 to ship back your receiver (or a lot more if you don't return your leased receiver).


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

James Long said:


> $13 per month for each month remaining, IIRC. Plus $15 to ship back your receiver (or a lot more if you don't return your leased receiver).


I think it's $17.50/mo for each month remaining currently.


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## jbeers65 (Mar 11, 2006)

Has anyone read the fine print of their contract to see if the early termination fees apply IF Dishnetwork no longer offers the programming you originally thought you were going to be able to watch when you signed up? 

Maybe they did not break a legal contract, but it is a major let down when you invest in extra Dish remotes, the OTA add-on part for your receiver, etc., and then they pull something like this.

I just have to take things slow and make sure my house is ready for DirectTV, and run the HDMI wiring to other rooms because I don't want to pay for the extra rental of boxes for the other rooms since the DirecTV boxes do not have TV1 and TV2 like Dish.

It looks like it can be done, but now I start all over again.. investing in cabling, extra remotes, etc. for DirecTV, on top of the early termination and the huge inconvenience this has all become.

I really cant recommend this company anymore after being with them for almost 6 years... major letdown.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=174583


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

New to dish, and should have done my homework properly.

Can someone here tell me that if I sub to the multi-sport channel, how much baseball will I get to watch?

When I park on a "ALT" channel with a game on I get a pop up saying blacked out in my area.

So even if I sub to the multi sport, I will never get to see any of these games, correct?

Anyone know what channels with baseball is available with "multi sport" package? I guess this is the question I should be asking.

thanks to whoever replies!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You will only get the MLB team that claims your area as home ... you will not get games from outside of your area.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

James Long said:


> You will only get the MLB team that claims your area as home ... you will not get games from outside of your area.


So, If I live in Northwest Pa., I won't be able to watch any other team besides pirates? I can watch them now without subbing to the multi sport channel. So no go on any other baseball? No point spending extra $


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

That was pretty obvious from the start, though. MLB blackout rules are pretty fixed.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, 

sniff...

Dish posts the channels they offer in the multi sport package, [ I asked the csr when I first signed up about these channels {400's} and they said yes, they are in the package, but Never mentioned they are all blacked out.


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> So, If I live in Northwest Pa., I won't be able to watch any other team besides pirates? I can watch them now without subbing to the multi sport channel. So no go on any other baseball? No point spending extra $


It's not Dish that's blacking out the Pro sports, it's MLB, NBA and NHL that "sliced up" the country into regions (MANY moons (years) ago) and put the blackouts in place. It's all based on your zip code. Mine is 30043; I get FSN South and SportsSouth in the clear and nothing else.

The current Pro Sports blackout implementation is an anachronism in the 21st century.

The Multi Sports Pack (MSP) is NOT for everyone (only you can make that decision) and was NEVER intended to be a cheaper priced "MLB EI, NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, ..." replacement. Nobody would order the higher-priced packages if the MSP provided all that programming for $7.00 per month. Try it for awhile and see if you like it. You can always drop it later.

" So no go on any other baseball?" (see below):

I like the Dish Network Multi Sports Package for MLB. It is the dime store alternative to MLB EI and almost every night you can watch at least an inning or two of some out of market games (after the 3 hour blackout lifts (FOXCN (Cincinnati) after 2.5 hours most nights); 2.5 for NBA and NHL). Rain delays, extra innings, high-scoring games, unscheduled doubleheaders are great. Sometimes a local feed from an out of market region may be in the clear as well.


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