# Charlie Chat Summary 1/10/05 by Mark Lamutt



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Charlie Chat 1/10/05 Summary
Copyright 2005 Mark Lamutt and DBSTalk.com
All Rights Reserved

Welcome to another Charlie Chat with your hosts, Charlie Ergan and Jim DeFranco!

Lots to talk about tonight, so let's get started! Locals in our 153rd market! PPV Events! International Programming! Shop at Home! CES Announcements! And questions answered! And of course, the special guest - George Stella from The Food Network's "Low Carb and Loving It!"

First up, programming and pricing. Raising prices starting in February statement. We apologize for that, but our costs are increasing. Average customer spends $56 per month, and will see $2.40 increase (4.3% average increase). Programming cost has gone up more than 7% in the last year (blame sports programming). Nobody fights cost increases more than we do! Details beginning February 1, 2005:

America's Top 60 with locals: +$2.00 New Price: $31.99
America's Top 120 with locals: +$3.00 New Price: $42.99
America's Top 180 with locals: +$3.00 New Price: $52.99
America's Everything Pak with locals: +$4.00 New Price: $86.99
RAI International: +$3.00 New Price: $12.99
Premium Movie Packages - no price increase
Dish Latino Packages - no price increase
All other International Packages - no price increase
Pay Per View - no price increase
Service Fees - no price increase
Cable announcing 6+% price increases this year. *We're 30% less than cable!* We'll work really hard this year to keep costs down. Everyone has had to raise prices. We spend a lot of money on the content, some of those costs we have to pass on to you.

To show our appreciation, we'll throw in a $3.99 PPV coupon in your February statement.

Just got back from CES! Roll Video! It's Dan Landreth! (One of our very good friends that Jason and I work closely with for the support forums.) Picture of 942! Notice how there's no cable pig as part of their booth this year. Tech Forum Monday February 14, 2005, 9:00pm EST - ask the engineers your questions about all of the new products that we can't answer.

Now rolling video about the new 30" and 40" LCD HDTVs. It's Dave Edwards! 

30" - $1599 
40" - $3999
Available in February
34" DirectView monitor with 811 for $999, quantities are limited PQ everybit as good as the LCD monitor. (Has Charlie seen what his 34" tv's look like? Or what an LCD looks like?) LCD monitors don't come with HD receivers.

Special for existing customers who don't sub to the HD Pack today - half price for the 12 months! $9.99, with a $5 credit for 12 months. Not available for users that already subscribe to the HD Pak. (We tried&#8230

DVR522 will be available in early February. Runs about $100 more than the 510.

What's new with Programming? Eric Sahl, VP of Programming. As of today, 152 markets with locals with Gainesville, Fla launching on February 3, 2005 - #153.

Upcoming cities with locals launching in 2005:

Billings, MT
Casper, WY
Erie, PA
Great Falls, MT
Mynark/Bismark, ND
Rapid City, SD
Twin Falls, ID
International Programming:

South Asia World launched December 16th. Channel 811, $4.99/mo, or $54.89 anually.
American Desi, Channel 812, $4.99/mo, or $54.89 anually.
Or both as a package for $8.99/mo or $98.89 annually.
To subscribe, must be America's Top 60 or above subscriber, or Dish Latino or above subscriber, or subscriber of Great Wall TV package or any South Asian channel or package at $34.99/mo or higher. 
PPV Calander:

The FA Cup, English Soccer Jan 8th - May 21st on Channels 455 and 470. All inclusive package $99, or 2 payments of $49.50. Individual games $15.95. Final game $24.95.
The Konka Kaf under 20 youth tournament, Jan 12th-Jan 31st. Channel 834. All inclusive price $49.95.
TNA Wrestling The Final Resolution, January 16th, $29.95, Channels 455 and 470.
ESPN Full Court Half Season Package $69, available Jan 16th, with free preview Jan 16th-Jan 19th. 
NBA League Pass Half Season Package, free preview Jan 24th-Jan 30th. No price given.
Interactive Television:

Horse racing and betting&#8230;let's go down to the stables! Only allowed in California, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Washington, Wyoming
Cybercafe shopping with Henry! Soon be offering Sharper Image shopping through Dish Home. 

Heartwarming story from Bingo TV&#8230;<gaaaaackkkkk>

Now for some Questions!

Email from Kehvan Zydhek - question about when 522 will be available for existing customers, has a 510 and wants to know when NBR is coming for the 510?

Answer: Charlie - NBR available now! (hahahahaha&#8230;rolling eyes&#8230;yeah whatever&#8230;Charlie really needs to get a clue about his own products&#8230 Jan over shaking his head in the peanut gallery. Charlie promises it is coming for the 510! Here it is in print!

Lots of questions about HD programming.
Answer: Charlie - new sat launches late summer will give us more capacity. Also, later this year, MPEG4 will allow up to do more HD channels. Vast majority of increases later this year after new sat is launched and when we have MPEG4 technology. May have a few before then - ESPN2, Bravo, some movie channel, but most will be later rather than sooner.

Question: Ryan from TN - What is "significantly viewed" defined as under the new law?
Answer: Charlie - passed last November that allowed us to continue broadcasting your local channels. One of the other positive things was it put Sat and cable on more equal footing. Example - you live in Washington, but are closer to Baltimore stations, this will allow us to give you both Baltimore and Washington locals. Colorado Springs-Denver another example. FCC has to come out with exact rules, should be out in June.

Phone call from Chad: Can't hear a thing Chad is asking&#8230;question about satellite broadband maybe.
Answer: Charlie - we had technology called Starband. Service wasn't economical. We've launched 2 satellites since then, and we're working on a business model to make this cost effective. Won't be out until at least this fall.

Phone call from Lindsay: Recently switched to Dish from cable. With my local cable, we had On Demand programming. Will Dish have On Demand like that?
Answer - Charlie: Technology different between us and them. We give you VOD through our DVR receivers. You can record the movies that you want, and you can then watch it whenever you want. And, coming later this year (this spring), the model 625 will automatically download 30 movies on your hard drive to start, and will get better this summer with software updates - more choices. And it'll let you program your DVR for what you want to watch as well.

More questions later&#8230;now it's special guest time&#8230;

<humming Jeopardy theme now&#8230;>

(the nice thing about watching this delayed as I type this up is that I can skip right through the special guest segment. I highly recommend it!)

After the guest, 2 minutes left in the show&#8230;last question:

Phone: Lonnie - when will the 921 be available for lease?
Answer - Jim: Never. 942 will be available for lease. Watch Tech Forum in February. 921 will be phased out to the 942.

Thanks for joining us tonight!


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## TRSmudge (May 29, 2004)

Our newest Charlie Chat segment is......

The Infomercial.....

Lets spend 10 minutes letting some guy push his diet book on us instead of answering questions from our customers.....What a joke!


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Wow I actually watched a chat for the first time in about a year. When Jim said "lots of exciting programming" I expected to hear some new basic cable channels being added or ESPN2-HD. Just lame shopping/horse racing betting and international blah blah blah garbage.


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## TowJumper (Sep 19, 2003)

Mark:

Thanks for putting that together. Be sure and ask when the NBR is hitting the 510 - Charlie said by Feb HAHHAHHHAAAA.

Anyway, thanks for all you do Mark keep up the good fight.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

BTW I think the Chariots Of Fire comedy ripoff segments have been old for quite some time now.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

probably $99. $69 was for ESPN-FC


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

So in other words not a thing is being added to the Top 60, 120, or 180 for this high price increase.

He said cable was raising more than that and the local one around here usually does increases in February and there was nothing about an increase in the bill this month.

If the premium movie packages didn't raise, then why isn't the Everything pack only a $3 increase??

Is there a demand for these things they are adding like the Bingo TV and the Horseracing betting??? Why don't they put more effort into HD, new general entertainment channels, etc???


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

Great Summary Mark! Thanks for the info (and keeping us from having to watch it)!


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

Link said:


> So in other words not a thing is being added to the Top 60, 120, or 180 for this high price increase.


I just sent Charlie my thanks...downgraded from AT180 to AT120...$10 more in my pocket a month. THANKS! :lol:

BTW, you still have to ask that the drop fee be waived...they won't do it automatically


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Couldn't hit the delete post key quick enough. Yep ... no price given.

It IS nice when the CEO says:
I believe ... what in the meeting today ... I could have heard it wrong. The head of engineering said that name based recording is available NOW on all the model 500 series. That's what he said, right?​Jim:
Jan works in engineering and he's shaking his head.​CEO:
We have these Monday morning staff meetings here, and I had the same question this morning. Only because that is a great feature.
[DESCRIPTION SNIPPED]​It is a great feature and it is scheduled in all the 510's 522's and I had the understanding this morning that it was already downloaded, but Jan you are saying not downloaded yet. So it will be a software upgrade to the box, and I assume - at the worst case you can ask the head of engineering who will be hosting this show in February. *And we should have it out by then.*
Great question, but it is coming. And again there is nothing you have to do, it is just a download automatically to your set top box to improve the functionallity in the future.​
Guess NBR is front burner again!

JL


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## tbeuthin (Dec 15, 2004)

Lets see if I got this right:
1) 921 is being phased out for 942
2) More info on 942 in Feb. chat
3) MPEG4 coming 2nd half this year, allows for many more HD channels
4) No MPEG4 capability on any current HD receiver.
5) The 942 also not MPEG4 capable, but will be available for lease or purchase. 

If the above is true I guess they have a 942 lease option because who would buy one when it appears to have a 3-10 month lifespan.

Nice to know my 508 will have NBR, but what about the 921?
Maybe I should send back my recently purchased bug ridden 921 back and reactivate my other 508 get NBR and wait for the 9xx MPEG4 receiver.

I lived through the 50x problems which they finally fixed and now we get NBR too. Great! But what about the top of the line 921?

It's hard to believe that the current top of the line HD DVR has been outlived by the lowly 501 and 508. And the 50x gets NBR but not the 921. Brillant!!!

IMHO Dish needs to make it clear to 921 owners if they will be committed to fixing the bugs and whether ot not it will EVER get NBR.

Tom B.
921
508
AEP+locals
HD pac (they required it)


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

Did they play the "High Definition" song? 

No news is.........................THE SAME OLD CRAP!


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Hey, I love that song!

"I'm living life, in high definition" so catchy


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It wasn't too bad of a show. The NBR and HD future announcements as well as a public to customer acknowledgement of MPEG4 made it fun.

And Charlie was just as embarassed as we were to see the Chariots of Fire joke.

E* customers see a lot of potential in the company. We would like to see a lot more results, but at least they didn't kill the potential in this month's chat. Good things are coming.

I did expect a channel addition -- evidently they were not at a point to announce them or didn't want to tie an increase to a new channel. (As many that get upset about increases without additions would get upset about additions they don't want.)

JL


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I think when it comes time for cable co's and D* to raise its rates it wont be so bad. I guess it just stinks for us because were the first to receive the increase.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

catnap1972 said:


> I just sent Charlie my thanks...downgraded from AT180 to AT120...$10 more in my pocket a month. THANKS! :lol:
> 
> BTW, you still have to ask that the drop fee be waived...they won't do it automatically


Actually $7 more in your pocket since he is raising it $3.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

catnap1972 said:


> I just sent Charlie my thanks...downgraded from AT180 to AT120...$10 more in my pocket a month. THANKS! :lol:
> 
> BTW, you still have to ask that the drop fee be waived...they won't do it automatically


I downgraded from Top 180 to Top 60 (he didn't charge me a fee). Ironically there are Top 180 only channels I like, but none really in 120 that I care about having. I wasn't paying $21 extra now a month for Hallmark, GAC, and VH1 Classic. I would get 120 if Hallmark and GAC went to that package.

My bill with Top 60/locals, extra receiver and Superstations is now $42.97 a month and no ridiculous VOD fee with 2 721 receivers.


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> Actually $7 more in your pocket since he is raising it $3.


No, it's still $10.00/month savings:

AT180: $47.99+8.99(local+supers)+4.99(2nd receiver) = $61.97+3.72 tax = $65.69 total

AT120: $37.99+8.99(local+supers)+4.99(2nd receiver) = $51.97 +3.12 tax = $55.09 total

With the taxes thrown in it's actually $10.60 more in my pocket a month.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

> DVR522 will be available in early February. Runs about $100 more than the 510.


Is Dish going to sell this box to existing customers or lease???
Sounds to me like they are going to sell it?


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

Top 180 with locals up $3 / No increase in the movie packages.

So AEP is 180 with movie packages, right? Why was it increased $4 instead of $3?


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

Gotta ask you folks something: For those who are frustrated with the price increase, and a lack of substantial [Standard Definition] channel additions to offset the increase, are you considering dropping Dish Network service?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

One thing to note - they didn't say NBR for 501/508 did they?

I mean, yes, we all know they're the same box, but that does NOT mean they have to keep the same software in all of them. Of course, it's utterly stupid for them not to, but when has E* not done something because it's stupid?


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## javaman (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd gladly accept the price increase if they could just get my 522 to record without the video and audio breaking up and going out of sync. The most basic feature of this device and they can't even get that right. I can't imagine anyone wanting to own one.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

DS0816 said:


> Gotta ask you folks something: For those who are frustrated with the price increase, and a lack of substantial [Standard Definition] channel additions to offset the increase, are you considering dropping Dish Network service?


No.

Keep in mind that with an average $3 bump, that's over $30 million additional monthly revenue for E*, and members of the Customer Loyalty Club (CLC) get a percentage of that in the form of a cash rebate on programming, plus the annual bonus for a net add during each calendar year.

At least that's why I joined the CLC when I first subscribed over four years ago. So far, I have added AAEP, HD and three new foreign packages that I can't even understand. But, to receive that bonus check personally signed by Charlie is...is...well, it's just special.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Thanks for the recap. I see nothing that will keep me from cancelling by the end of the month.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

Gee another channel I can't get and don't care to get...

Dish is really paying attention to the customers here.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> One thing to note - they didn't say NBR for 501/508 did they?
> 
> I mean, yes, we all know they're the same box, but that does NOT mean they have to keep the same software in all of them. Of course, it's utterly stupid for them not to, but when has E* not done something because it's stupid?


He didn't specifically mention any boxes besides the 510 and the 522. He did however say that he was under the impression that it was already on all the 5xx series boxes. So you can interpret that any way you want. Hopefully we'll hear more about it on the tech chat in February.


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

DS0816 said:


> Gotta ask you folks something: For those who are frustrated with the price increase, and a lack of substantial [Standard Definition] channel additions to offset the increase, are you considering dropping Dish Network service?


Not jumping ship (yet), but truthfully the superstations are the only thing keeping me from doing so. Will wait and see what D* does (rate increase, new promos, etc) in the next few months.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> One thing to note - they didn't say NBR for 501/508 did they?


Charlie:
I believe ... what in the meeting today ... I could have heard it wrong. The head of engineering said that *name based recording is available NOW on all the model 500 series*. That's what he said, right?​Jim:
Jan works in engineering and he's shaking his head.​Charlie:
We have these Monday morning staff meetings here, and I had the same question this morning. Only because that is a great feature.[DESCRIPTION SNIPPED]​It is a great feature and it is scheduled in all the 510's 522's and I had the understanding this morning that it was already downloaded, but Jan you are saying not downloaded yet. So it will be a software upgrade to the box, and I assume - at the worst case you can ask the head of engineering who will be hosting this show in February. *And we should have it out by then.* Great question, but it is coming. And again there is nothing you have to do, it is just a download automatically to your set top box to improve the functionallity in the future.​All three receivers use the same software. If they can figure it out for the 510 they have it for the 508/501, and they were sort of mentioned at the beginning of the answer (all 500 series).

JL


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

catnap1972 said:


> Not jumping ship (yet), but truthfully the superstations are the only thing keeping me from doing so. Will wait and see what D* does (rate increase, new promos, etc) in the next few months.


That is my case as well, unfortunately.

Funny how it seems this has turned into the "I'm switching services" forum


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I'm not switching because of the price increase, but because I don't like the buggy hardware, and believe that D* is putting out better stuff, with more attention to HD.


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

Capmeister said:


> I'm not switching because of the price increase, but because I don't like the buggy hardware, and believe that D* is putting out better stuff, with more attention to HD.


D* is putting out better equipment because they are not (have not been to this point) manufacturing all these quality units. E* is, and that's probably a bit of a mistake. If I understand correctly, they are going to start manufacturing their own DVRs, so we'll see how successful they are with that. Not that I'm trying to warn or sway anyone's decision, because I really don't care, but a lot of people have issues and/or don't like their TiVo units, too.

I've been lucky with my equipment over the years (2000-4000 series, 501, 508, and now an 811), so that's probably the reason I'm not scorned like many others are. If I switch, and I have contemplated it, it will be due to the direction of HD.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

So, unless you are a Chinese immigrant who recently relocated to Gainesville, FL, last night's chat wasn't that "compelling" (we are never gonna let Chuckie live that one down, eh?).

I took a LITTLE comfort with his "maybe ESPN2, Bravo, and a movie channel (sounds like either Starz or Cinemax HD)". It sounds like those 3 will be it, but it is a step in the right direction. I WAS disappointed that there was no mention of FOX, ABC, or NBC HD however. If I were D* I would be hammering this point home on TV commercials every night to grab more market share from E*.

2005 will be to E* what 2002 was to D*..... a depressing year where your competitor keeps announcing new programming while you are stuck in neutral.

It sounds like they are still pushing BingoTV. Maybe that February death of the channel may not be happening after all as some have forecasted (or it is a last ditch effort to build awareness for the show before they ax it.)


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

My 510 works great. If they really do add NBR in February, I'll have absolutely no complaints about it.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

hambone said:


> D* is putting out better equipment because they are not (have not been to this point) manufacturing all these quality units. E* is, and that's probably a bit of a mistake. If I understand correctly, they are going to start manufacturing their own DVRs, so we'll see how successful they are with that. Not that I'm trying to warn or sway anyone's decision, because I really don't care, but a lot of people have issues and/or don't like their TiVo units, too.
> 
> I've been lucky with my equipment over the years (2000-4000 series, 501, 508, and now an 811), so that's probably the reason I'm not scorned like many others are. If I switch, and I have contemplated it, it will be due to the direction of HD.


Well, that's true... D* isn't making the boxes. Seems to be a good plan, doesn't it? My 501 has worked fine, but I'm looking at the big picture... HDTivo does what I want now, and can have more than one Tivo for the $4.99 fee. With Dish, it's $4.99 per DVR.

E* turned me off with the "compelling content" story, then adding TNT-HD, as well. From D* I see plans that I like. From E* I hear BS stories.

It's just my impression, but D* seems like the way to go for more than one reason.


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## hambone (Dec 4, 2004)

Capmeister said:


> Well, that's true... D* isn't making the boxes. Seems to be a good plan, doesn't it? My 501 has worked fine, but I'm looking at the big picture... HDTivo does what I want now, and can have more than one Tivo for the $4.99 fee. With Dish, it's $4.99 per DVR.
> 
> E* turned me off with the "compelling content" story, then adding TNT-HD, as well. From D* I see plans that I like. From E* I hear BS stories.
> 
> It's just my impression, but D* seems like the way to go for more than one reason.


Agreed on all points. It's frustrating to see D* doing things right now, this month, and E* only talking.


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## mallu2u (Jul 23, 2004)

So supposed when shall the 510s have the NBR? Early Feb?


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Actually, they have. The Hughes boxes are their(of course, they may sub them out like E* does to RCA). However, the new D10 is their home grown box, and it's crap compared to the Hughes boxes. Also, D*, until recently, only had really a 2 sat setup. E* has more locations, and requires more complicated switches, which D* is now having to deal with. 

My favorite point is that the sports channels were the main reason for the increase. However, if they put all the sports channels in their own package, the the sports fans would see a hell of an increase, cause you can be sure that ESPN will not see their revenue go down, so instead of paying $2 per sub right now, it would be $4-5 per sub that actually got it, so this would jack the price up unrealistically.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobMurdoch said:


> It sounds like they are still pushing BingoTV. Maybe that February death of the channel may not be happening after all as some have forecasted (or it is a last ditch effort to build awareness for the show before they ax it.)


That rumor was based on flawed information.

JL


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

When talking about the NBR, Charlie said, "...and if a football game runs over it will take that into consideration..."

If my understanding of NBR is correct that is completely incorrect. Anyone else notice that or have comments?


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

Did I hear correctly, that it sounded like existing customers could upgrade to a Dish 522 in February? Upgrade from what? For how much?


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> When talking about the NBR, Charlie said, "...and if a football game runs over it will take that into consideration..."
> 
> If my understanding of NBR is correct that is completely incorrect. Anyone else notice that or have comments?


I'm not sure Charlie is the best source of info about DishNetwork.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Yup, he was wrong about this one too.

If guide data is accurate, name based recording will catch a supersized Will and Grace episode on NBC, but it won't save you if the football game goes long on the east coast feed of Fox and the times don't sync up. 

Thank God for my waivers which allow me to get Fox-W or I'd be screwed (or reduced to recording a 5 hour chunck of time manually to make sure things didn't get missed). Folks on teh west coast rarely have to deal with their shows getting jostled around. Then again, they have to rush home if they want to watch Monday Night Football at 6pm.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

Probably a question for another forum, but since Charlie brought it up...where does the program guide get it's information from and how often is it updated and made accurate? Is their embedded program information in signals that can be used that a program guide to adapt to?

Yeah we on the west coast are certainly less sleepy in the mornings after those "late" games. It's very nice.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Yeah, the damn Red Sox/Yankee games screwed me up for a week. We were all like zombies around here.

Plus, who is this Conan O'Brien people talk about (tongue planted deeply in cheek)? Since I'm not in college anymore, 12:30 AM is NOT TV time for me


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## LindaT (Dec 16, 2004)

Nick said:


> No.
> 
> Keep in mind that with an average $3 bump, that's over $30 million additional monthly revenue for E*, and members of the Customer Loyalty Club (CLC) get a percentage of that in the form of a cash rebate on programming, plus the annual bonus for a net add during each calendar year.
> 
> At least that's why I joined the CLC when I first subscribed over four years ago. So far, I have added AAEP, HD and three new foreign packages that I can't even understand. But, to receive that bonus check personally signed by Charlie is...is...well, it's just special.


Customer Loyalty Club ? What is that?


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

BobMurdoch said:


> I WAS disappointed that there was no mention of FOX, ABC, or NBC HD however. If I were D* I would be hammering this point home on TV commercials every night to grab more market share from E*.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there just are not enough people who actually qualify for the network HD feeds to make this much of an issue. I would bet that there are more people who can receive the networks OTA than there are who qualify for the distant HD networks. Just my .02.


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## negril jam (Mar 14, 2004)

I am relieved that charlie put the increases on the rich gringos and had mercy on us poor latinos.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

negril jam said:


> I am relieved that charlie put the increases on the rich gringos and had mercy on us poor latinos.


LOL!


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

So, the new horse racing channels are limited to certain states...............
Is that determined by your billing address, or your service address?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

> So, the new horse racing channels are limited to certain states...............
> Is that determined by your billing address, or your service address?


billing address i would assume


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Your State of residence. They had a slate showing which States qualify legally. Mind you, I think you'll be able to watch the channel, just not be able to bet if you don't live in a legal Off-Track State.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Darkman said:


> billing address i would assume


I think that it is service address since those states (where the equipment is) make the law to allow or not allow off track betting in that state. No other service (Locals, RSNs) are determined by the billing address so why would this service be handled differently?


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I disagree. With many markets not yet transmitting at full power their coverage maps are even SMALLER than their analog counterparts.

Antennaweb.org says that my house can receive analog signals from all of the networks and the independent stations from New York and even the NBC affiliate in Philadelphia. Yet, the only digital station it says I should be able to receive is a PBS station 100 miles away.

Even if this is inaccurate, the 9/11 attacks wiped out New York's OTA digital stations, and the last of the new antennas are just coming online with NBC's set to go live soon (it may have already). The others are transmitting at a small fraction of their future levels. I would submit that there are even greater areas that would be considered "white areas" if anyone bother to try and actually test them.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

maybe i didn't understand question correctly (lack of english)...

What i ment was (weather he can watch it or not).. is what Bobby ment above.. - that He d be able to watch it, but won't be able to bet.. 

I just got confused with the wording somewhat....


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## Anonymous (Jun 19, 2004)

ebaltz said:


> When talking about the NBR, Charlie said, "...and if a football game runs over it will take that into consideration..."
> 
> If my understanding of NBR is correct that is completely incorrect. Anyone else notice that or have comments?


If the TV station and the Dish people communicate and add that info to the stream, then yes, if the priorities of other events don't prevent it. Unfortunately, you'll never know if the TV stations don't call Dish or Dish doesn't respond or if it is up to Dish to have one person watching each show. My wife watches Ventaniando on TV Azteca America. It starts at a different time each day and ends at a different time each day. On average it starts 5 minutes before the hour but sometimes a few minutes after and always ends on average 15 minutes late. But my 522 has not once recorded the whole show. TV Azteca and Univision appearently don't own any clocks or watches or maybe they set them by looking at the sun at noon. My point is I wish I knew whether those channels were giving Dish faulty info or if Dish takes 3:55 pm and converts it to 4:00 pm. And takes, will end at 5:18 pm and converts that to 5:00 pm. Maybe we can ask Dish during the next chat if each show streams info or is the 522 dependant on what it downloaded last night at 3:00 am. Someone should also ask if Dish has technicians watching everything and updates that "streaming info" or do they depend on each TV Station to call Dish up personally and advise them when something is about to go over their schedule.

On Sunday night during Adult Swin on Cartoon Network, aren't there more shows than what the EPG lists? Aren't some shows like 10 minutes long and others like 20 or 15. But Dish's EPG can only go as small as 30 minutes.


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## Spruceman (Nov 21, 2004)

Thanks for the summary of the Chat. I forgot all about it -- maybe was distracted by a need to count the pieces of lint in my pants pocket or something else equally important as the Chat.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Link said:


> So in other words not a thing is being added to the Top 60, 120, or 180 for this high price increase.
> 
> He said cable was raising more than that and the local one around here usually does increases in February and there was nothing about an increase in the bill this month.
> 
> ...


Because Charlie likes to do things on the cheap, ala Bingo. Charlie chats = Vaudville.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> Actually, they have. The Hughes boxes are their(of course, they may sub them out like E* does to RCA). However, the new D10 is their home grown box, and it's crap compared to the Hughes boxes. Also, D*, until recently, only had really a 2 sat setup. E* has more locations, and requires more complicated switches, which D* is now having to deal with.
> 
> My favorite point is that the sports channels were the main reason for the increase. However, if they put all the sports channels in their own package, the the sports fans would see a hell of an increase, cause you can be sure that ESPN will not see their revenue go down, so instead of paying $2 per sub right now, it would be $4-5 per sub that actually got it, so this would jack the price up unrealistically.


They can't put ESPN in sports pack, because its in the contract that ESPN should be available to all.. I don't watch ESPN very often & wouldn't miss it.


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## jeslevine (Jul 21, 2002)

Tomorrow I am going to have VOOM installed

I am not getting rid of dish, except for maybe their HD content, for the time being

I will give dish a little more time to see if they will offer their loyal 921/6000 customers upgrades, when mpeg4 comes down the line, but if VOOM is as good as "some claim", I will sell my 921 and 6000 receivers


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> When talking about the NBR, Charlie said, "...and if a football game runs over it will take that into consideration..."
> 
> If my understanding of NBR is correct that is completely incorrect. Anyone else notice that or have comments?


NBR as implemented by E* will not do that. It WILL move a program if it is scheduled to be later because of football.

JL


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

Bill R said:


> I think that it is service address since those states (where the equipment is) make the law to allow or not allow off track betting in that state. No other service (Locals, RSNs) are determined by the billing address so why would this service be handled differently?


The legality would be based on your physical location, it has nothing to do with your billing or even primary service address. Let's say that you are a MA resident and have your primary service in MA, but you have a weekend home in upstate NY. When in MA you can place a bet. However, if you take your receiver to your NY weekend home, it would be illegal for you to use the interactive gambling application there. The question is does Dishnetwork block out the service to receivers based on their service/billing location OR are you told no when you actually try to place your bet when you select your state in the interactive application?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

wkomorow said:


> The legality would be based on your physical location, it has nothing to do with your billing or even primary service address. Let's say that you are a MA resident and have your primary service in MA, but you have a weekend home in upstate NY. When in MA you can place a bet. However, if you take your receiver to your NY weekend home, it would be illegal for you to use the interactive gambling application there. The question is does Dishnetwork block out the service to receivers based on their service/billing location?


The sign in text was not on the screen very long (time to pull out the DVR recording) but it looks like the app allows you to select the state you are betting from, including states that you can't bet from, and the text says you certify that you are in that state. You also have to set up a special account to live gamble ... which would probably require proof of residence.

JL


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

justalurker said:


> The sign in text was not on the screen very long (time to pull out the DVR recording) but it looks like the app allows you to select the state you are betting from, including states that you can't bet from, and the text says you certify that you are in that state. You also have to set up a special account to live gamble ... which would probably require proof of residence.
> 
> JL


 Yeah - it looks like I was adding the OR ... while you were replying


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They may let people not in the 13 lucky(?) states use play money.
We'll find out next month.

JL


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## blakejames3000 (May 16, 2004)

he said that programming rates went up 7 % ....but they don't pay the same cost we do they don't pay the full programming cost that we pay so when they pay for programming from them provider don't they get it like "wholesale" or something ? so technically their not losing
and if they get it cheaper thier 7 % increase might only equal 3 or 4 % to what we pay to dish,either way they make us believe thier losing money and that is wrong, we are now paying a little more we should get a little more ....


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm not a Charlie basher or a brown-noser...

I do tend to tune out when percentages are quoted... kind of like statistics, they can be skewed.

Lots of employers like to say "Management only got a 1% raise, but we gave you a 5% raise!" as if that means something when your 5% is like $1000 vs Management's 1% being $10,000.

So the whole 7% vs 4% thing just went right through me. I know ultimately they will skew things to make it look like they are the good guys eating a loss and passing the savings onto us. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what they say... it matters if I feel OK paying the bill, and so far I do but my eyes and ears are always open.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> I do tend to tune out when percentages are quoted... kind of like statistics, they can be skewed.


Yep. E*'s average price increase is 4.6% and cable's average was 6%.

E*'s increase was 76% of cable's increase, or 30% less. :grin: 
Someone made 6% there. Must be the government?

In this rate change:
$2 is 8% or 6.6% depending on if you have locals (AT60)
$3 is 8.6% (AT120), 7.5% (AT120+L), 6.4% (AT180) or 6% (AT180+L)
$4 is even lower

In general, the more you pay, the lower the percentage increase!

Welcome to the spin zone.

JL


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

justalurker said:


> Yep. E*'s average price increase is 4.6% and cable's average was 6%.
> 
> E*'s increase was 76% of cable's increase, or 30% less. :grin:
> Someone made 6% there. Must be the government?
> ...


I wouldn't mind a 6% increase if I got the HD that cable has.


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## misterdsp (Apr 22, 2004)

----------------

* America’s Top 120 with locals: +$3.00 New Price: $42.99
.....
Cable announcing 6+% price increases this year. We’re 30% less than cable! 

-----------------


Hmmmm. 3.0/39.99 = 7.5%.

In Dishland, a 7% increase is 30% less than the 6% cable increase. Must be that new fuzzy math. No wonder they can't get their 811 software working.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

misterdsp, the fuzziness is in your understanding of what was said....

An AVERAGE of 6% Take all the price increases average them out and you get 6%. Again you can get anything you want by manipulating the numbers and the little words people don't hear.  Basic advertisement.

Welcome to DBSTalk!

See ya
Tony


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> misterdsp, the fuzziness is in your understanding of what was said....
> 
> An AVERAGE of 6% Take all the price increases average them out and you get 6%. Again you can get anything you want by manipulating the numbers and the little words people don't hear.  Basic advertisement.


Not only that, but people hear "30% less" and go "WOW! That's CHEAP!".


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

> When talking about the NBR, Charlie said, "...and if a football game runs over it will take that into consideration..."





justalurker said:


> NBR as implemented by E* will not do that. It WILL move a program if it is scheduled to be later because of football.


Any alternative reality, where you don't have to constantly check listings, web sites and your timers, can *only* exist when the TV stations are motivated to help you record their programs (and fast-forward through the commercials).

Since the reverse is actually true, in the real world, NBR doesn't provide any actual advantage - as DishDVR owners will find out the first time that the listings show your weekly show not being televised, but in actuality, it is televised and so NBR misses it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kstuart said:


> Any alternative reality, where you don't have to constantly check listings, web sites and your timers, can *only* exist when the TV stations are motivated to help you record their programs (and fast-forward through the commercials).


Accurate EPGs benifit the stations. If I don't KNOW they are going to play my favorite show, I'm not going to watch it (or the advertisements). If the program runs long and I miss it I'm going to be mad at THEM, the local station, for not keeping a schedule.

Stations really don't want irate viewers. Live EPG helps calm viewers, and since they are already placing the data there for V-Chip on NTSC/Analog and are working on their own EPG for ATSC/Digital it isn't too much to ask of them to continue to keep it accurate.

The next step is for E* to use the data for the benefit of their subscribers.

JL


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

justalurker said:


> Accurate EPGs benifit the stations. If I don't KNOW they are going to play my favorite show, I'm not going to watch it (or the advertisements). If the program runs long and I miss it I'm going to be mad at THEM, the local station, for not keeping a schedule.


Except that people who are watching the ads are also watching the program live, and they hear the announcer and see the crawl saying "When Legislators Attack will follow immediately after the conclusion of this overtime period".

A system of special sub-code information that informs the receiver in real-time about that sudden schedule change, is only necessary for DVR viewers who don't watch the commercials and thus don't contribute to the bottom line.

(And to this day, not one person who I have ever met in person, owns a DVR.)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kstuart said:


> Except that people who are watching the ads are also watching the program live, and they hear the announcer and see the crawl saying "When Legislators Attack will follow immediately after the conclusion of this overtime period".


And that REALLY makes viewers happy, especially the ones recording. Might as well shrink the screen 35% like many stations do for weather announcements.


kstuart said:


> A system of special sub-code information that informs the receiver in real-time about that sudden schedule change, is only necessary for DVR viewers who don't watch the commercials and thus don't contribute to the bottom line.


You are not getting that THE SUB-CODES ARE ALREADY THERE as part of the V-Chip information.


kstuart said:


> (And to this day, not one person who I have ever met in person, owns a DVR.)


Everyone I have met in person has met a DVR owner in person. And I work alongside another DVR owner (although his is a TiVo). Perhaps you need better friends?

JL


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

Here are the questions I emailed to [email protected] on Monday before the chat. As far as I know, they were all ignored. I didn't even get a single email response. Did I use the wrong email address? Do they only accept questions posted from the Dish web site these days?
When will we have a one-dish solution for all locals and HD?
Your competitor has announced plans to offer ABC, NBC, and FOX in high. def. in ten selected markets, including San Francisco. Will you do the same?
Do you still want Dish to be the leader in high def.? If so, how do you plan to do it?
When will the DVR-921 support OpenTV? 
Will the DVR-921 ever support name-based recording?
When will the DISH Portable Media Player be available?
If anyone with contacts can get an solid answer on any of these from anyone in-the-know at Dish, please post the response.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

justalurker said:


> Everyone I have met in person has met a DVR owner in person. And I work alongside another DVR owner (although his is a TiVo). Perhaps you need better friends?


Most of my sophisticated and intelligent friends don't watch much TV.

For example, I have a close friend who sells art that he keeps track of using a WiFi-enabled palm-sized laptop, ie not a technophobe. They only watch DVDs, nothing on cable/broadcast other than CNN.

Other friends are similar.

My relatives, on the other hand, are all technophobes. Walking into their homes is like time travel back to the 1980's. The only CD players in their homes are ones that I bought them, and one has a DVD player that I bought for them. They are only interested in either device because tapes are getting hard to find.

Every one of these people has above average intelligence.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

> You are not getting that THE SUB-CODES ARE ALREADY THERE as part of the V-Chip information.


 The sub-codes are there saying "A new program has just started with V, L, N and SC". I don't think there are sub-codes implemented that say "The 6pm program has been re-scheduled to 6:30pm" - although I don't keep up with such details. And if the channels were motivated, it could happen in weeks.

There are also massive complications.

First off, they don't know that the 6pm program will be a half-hour late, because it's not always clear how long the 37057 time-outs in the final "two minutes" will take. IE it's all quite indeterminate. Secondly, there is created a huge amount of "collision avoidance", requiring either a) Dish Network to decide for you (the usual user-friendly interface that software managers like), or b) a large series of options for you to decide in advance. I'm referring here to what happens when the rescheduled show conflicts with another scheduled recording. TiVo's system for this is both unsatisfactory (requiring constant supervision) and also beyond the understanding of Joe Sixpack (who is going to be angry with the results in many occasions, tying up the phone lines just like they are now).


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I received this email today from Donna B. at Dish network Ecare in response to my email about the price increase. In fact I replied to their reply and told them :"I can't believe you sent this canned email response to my email. Do you even read these things? " This was their response to my reply to their email. 

Thanks for your email. 

I have been advised that eventually ALL of our DVR receivers WILL HAVE Name Based Recording , it is done through a software download not built into the receiver. The hoped for time frame is sometime this summer, but since each different software will have to be initially built, I do not want to promise more than what Charlie promised that eventually it will have the function. 

So I am thinking that this means ONLY DVR receivers ( 510/921) and all PVR receivers (501/508/721) will not . This way they can charge the dvr fee on just dvr models. Then again the 510 is based on the same software as the 501/508 so they could put the same software in those too. The same for the 721 and the 921. Then they could justify a dvr fee for all older receivers as well. Then they could give customers something they want and make a buck on it as well. Doesn't that sound like Dish? After all on an old Charlie Chat they said that there was no fee on the older pvr receivers "AT THIS TIME." 

It sounds positive and I only hope they are not stringing me along till summer and then no name based recording . Wouldn't be the first time if they were. By Fall they would be headed into mpeg4 conversion. The funny thing is this software update was supposed to start in the summer and end last fall. Leave it to Dish to be a day late and a dollar short.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

kstuart said:


> Most of my sophisticated and intelligent friends don't watch much TV.


Maybe that's because they never learned how to watch TV _without_ watching all those annoying commercials. Or how to use a DVR to _find_ the good stuff. Or that DVDs are really about as convenient as floppy disks. :stickman:

To this day, lots of intelligent people still don't understand that DVR technology changes everything. Please explain this to them, then give them a Club Dish card.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kstuart said:


> The sub-codes are there saying "A new program has just started with V, L, N and SC". I don't think there are sub-codes implemented that say "The 6pm program has been re-scheduled to 6:30pm" - although I don't keep up with such details.


What is there, in many cases, is the title of the program being aired. Using that title E* could know that the station is still airing "NFL Football" instead of "Movie: Heidi". A little intuitive tracking to see how late the transition was could be used to predictively adjust the rest of the evening's schedule. "Still on" is good information to work with.

JL


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I received this email today from Donna B. at Dish network Ecare in response to my email about the price increase. In fact I replied to their reply and told them :"I can't believe you sent this canned email response to my email. Do you even read these things? " This was their response to my reply to their email.


I got a personal response to my complaint about getting the canned response as well. It seems the second round goes better than the first!


Mike D-CO5 said:


> I have been advised that eventually ALL of our DVR receivers WILL HAVE Name Based Recording , it is done through a software download not built into the receiver. The hoped for time frame is sometime this summer, but since each different software will have to be initially built, I do not want to promise more than what Charlie promised that eventually it will have the function.


Charlie said call Tech Chat next month ... and he said we would have the feature before then.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> So I am thinking that this means ONLY DVR receivers ( 510/921) and all PVR receivers (501/508/721) will not.


They have renamed the 501's DVRs now. My remote has a DVR button and the record screens all say DVR.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> Then again the 510 is based on the same software as the 501/508 so they could put the same software in those too.


If they don't put the software on the 501/508 it becomes a software split. Right now all three use the same download. If they decide to do NBR on 510 only they have to maintain the split through all future updates. I don't believe they want to do that.

I'll give Charlie a month to get it together and expect the update in February. If we don't get the update I suspect we will get some level of apology. This is front burner now.

JL


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Also... if I read the offers correctly, as a lease customer... I could upgrade my 501 to a 510 if I wanted at no charge... unless I'm missing something. So even if they don't make my 501 do name-based recording, I should be able to swap up for one that does.

I hope anyway.


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## mindwarp (May 19, 2003)

At least I will be switching to Dish latino, more for my money.
I hope they can start selling the 522's soon.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

justalurker said:


> They have renamed the 501's DVRs now. My remote has a DVR button and the record screens all say DVR.


Originally, however, the 721/501/508 were named "PVR" and the original remotes said PVR. Externally it was changed to DVR because TiVo has a trademark on PVR. However, internally, these models are known as PVR, or non-DISHPlayer.

Basically I think their plan is to introduce NBR on the fee-based DVR neo-DISHPlayer type receivers: 510, 522, (921?), and 942. People with a 501, 508, 721, or classic DISHPlayer 7x00 will continue to enjoy no fees, but will not get new software. (I think some 7x00 people pay fees though, I'm not sure)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike Richardson said:


> Basically I think their plan is to introduce NBR on the fee-based DVR neo-DISHPlayer type receivers: 510, 522, (921?), and 942. People with a 501, 508, 721, or classic DISHPlayer 7x00 will continue to enjoy no fees, but will not get new software. (I think some 7x00 people pay fees though, I'm not sure)


I believe you are absolutely wrong about 50Xs. When 510's get NBR, 508/501's will get NBR (the only delay being the normal progression of testing).

JL


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

What if they download software , menu , guides of the 522 to the 510 to make nbr features work? Can they do that ? If so then they could then bypass the 501/508.

I think from Charlie's point of view it would be better to download nbr to all older pvr receivers and then he could charge EVERYONE the dvr fee. It is funny that this nbr feature was promised for all dvr/pvr receivers Last summer. Now she says by next summer. This would be the same time that mpeg4 receivers will come out for the fall debut of mpeg 4 . Then it won't matter if your 921 has nbr because they will be swapping out these receivers anyway. The mpeg2 dvr/pvr receivers will work for longer because it will most likely take another 3 years after the hd receivers to swap out all the sd receivers. 

OF course the third option is ,that Donna at Dishnetwork Ecare was told to say this to me, so I would stay on through out the year in HOPES of actually receiving name based recording features on my 721/921 receivers. This one might be the more likely option . 

I am sure many people are churning to Directv now that they have hd network channels and an actual plan for the top 12 cities to receive their hd local stations by this summer. Maybe Dish will actually see numbers drop next quarter due to this mess they are in; 
1) One dish solution madated by the FCC. Might need another dish - might lose some cities during the transition. 
2) the name based recording features promised for all dvr/pvr receivers and then they back off from doing it breaking their promises they made on the tech chat/Charlie Chat during the 2004 shows. 
3) mpeg4 conversion and potential swap out of ALL receivers within the next 3 - 4 years. 
4) Lack of a hd plan and an explanation to all customers how they are going to swap out all receivers and whether the customer or Dish pays for it. 
5) All the bad will generated now by customers due to the above mess and Dish not disclosing any plans in concrete. 

I hope that I am wrong and all of our pvr/dvr receivers will get the name based recording features , AS PROMISED last year ,on the tech and Charlie Chats.:joy:


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Charlie Chat 1/10/05 Summary
> Copyright 2005 Mark Lamutt and DBSTalk.com
> All Rights Reserved
> 
> ...





Just in the interest of accuracy, the tournament is actually
the CONCACAF U20 tournament. This is a confederation of Caribbean and Central American "soccer" authorities.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> What if they download software , menu , guides of the 522 to the 510 to make nbr features work? Can they do that ? If so then they could then bypass the 501/508.


I believe they would have a harder time teaching the 522 software to ignore the missing tuner and output on the 510 than just keeping the 510/508/501 grouped.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> I think from Charlie's point of view it would be better to download nbr to all older pvr receivers and then he could charge EVERYONE the dvr fee.


The DVR fee is not feature based.



Mike D-CO5 said:


> Maybe Dish will actually see numbers drop next quarter due to this mess they are in;


Really? It would help if more than just a handful of E* subscribers even knew they were in a mess at all. Over 10 million subs ... how many do you REALLY think know or care?


Mike D-CO5 said:


> 1) One dish solution madated by the FCC. Might need another dish - might lose some cities during the transition.


A threat made by E* when single dish locals were being debated last year. But E* has 18 months to fix this, they have a satellite launch within 9 months that will help if not solve the issue, and they don't have to say one word to their customers until NEXT January ... pretty much after the issue is resolved.

If you think E* will lose ONE city over the single dish issue, you are a true pessimist.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> 2) the name based recording features promised for all dvr/pvr receivers and then they back off from doing it breaking their promises they made on the tech chat/Charlie Chat during the 2004 shows.


I've transcribed those shows. They didn't say ALL DVRs.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> 3) mpeg4 conversion and potential swap out of ALL receivers within the next 3 - 4 years.
> 4) Lack of a hd plan and an explanation to all customers how they are going to swap out all receivers and whether the customer or Dish pays for it.
> 5) All the bad will generated now by customers due to the above mess and Dish not disclosing any plans in concrete.


Interesting issues, but non-issues for the majority of E* subscribers. By the time these issues come to the top they WILL have the answers. Part of the curse of being over informed by internet groups is that one can worry like a fool over issues.

JL


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Just a lurker look at my earlier post where the Dish Network Ecare csr said to me in an email that she was ADVISED to say that ALL Dvrs will get name based recording .

All during the tech chats last year they talked about this feature and yes they said that all the dvrs would get nbr. They outlined when each one would get it. Starting with the 522 first ( should have been last summer) followed by the 500 series dvrs/pvrs and then the 721 would get it by the end of the year and the 921 would get it by the first of 2005. They have changed their minds and the update only went to the 522 last month - six months later than they promised. Now Charlie is saying the 510 will get it by next month. 

I am only speculating on why he would give his pvr customers who pay no fee , this nbr features. I think if he does add it to all the pvrs and dvrs , he will start charging a dvr fee. I don't see Charlie doing anything for nothing. I guess we will see if he follows through with the plans announced last spring. For me on my 921 it would come at a time that I would have to swap out for an mpeg4 receiver. It would be nice on my 2- 721 receivers.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I am only speculating on why he would give his pvr customers who pay no fee, this nbr features. I think if he does add it to all the pvrs and dvrs , he will start charging a dvr fee. I don't see Charlie doing anything for nothing.


Maybe he _has_ to do it to avoid getting sued. See this recent Yahoo News article about a group suing Verizon over features like Bluetooth that were promoted but then disabled in the Motorola v710 phone. We should follow this lawsuit closely because if they win, it could set important precedents that apply to Dish Network.

Maybe this news will give Charlie even more incentive to get NBR, OpenTV, and even DishWire working on our DVR-921s someday :grin:. All of these never-enabled features were publicly promoted in one way or another at some point, and that influenced buying decisions.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

{{ REPEALED BY ACT OF POSTER }}



Mike D-CO5 said:


> I am only speculating on why he would give his pvr customers who pay no fee, this nbr features. I think if he does add it to all the pvrs and dvrs, he will start charging a dvr fee.


That in itself is pure speculation. At NO POINT in time has E* said you will get NBR, but you will pay for it. At NO POINT at all!

JL


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*Tech Forum - February 9th, 2004*
Time into program: 51 min
Internet Questions from Paul about the DVR510
2nd question: (@ 52 min)
"Are there plans to be able to record all shows with a selected name instead of a specific time?"​Answer from Dan Minnick VP, Software Engineering:
"Yes. We're working on that technology right now, we will start rolling it out mid-year. And that will start rolling out to all of our DVR products including the 510 series."​3rd question:
"Why can't a weekly show be protected after recorded?"​Answer from Dan:
"And once again, that's another feature we will add at the same time as the name based recording, this mid-year."​
*Tech Forum - May 10th, 2004*
Time into program: 21 min
Internet Question from David A...
Mark Jackson paraphrases:
"Basically he wants to know when we will have Name Based Recording. [description using Friends snipped] What's the story on that? When are we getting that?"​Dan Minnick answers:
"Well Mark, in the summer we will start rolling that out to various set top boxes. The first one will be the 522. And after that it will roll out to the 510, 5x series. So like Mark said, Name Based Recording will let you type in Survivor and you'll catch all the episodes of Survivor."​Mark interjects:
"So again, we have just a ton of people asking about that. Everyone is waiting breathlessly, Dan. Got to get the team going and get it out."​Dan: "Night and day."
Mark: "Night and day." (with a smile)

*Charlie Chat - July 12th, 2004*
Time into program: 50 min
Jim DeFranco holding email question:
"I'm going to set this one off to the side because they are asking another DVR technical question. As far as 'Program By Title'. I think thats coming soon too."​Charlie Ergen replies:
[stammering at first snipped]"Today we record by time, and a lot of our customers said we want to record by title, 'I want to record every Seinfeld episode'. We are going to change the software so that you can kind of order a season ticket where you just push a button once and every Seinfeld episode that is ever up there - if you want it. We'll give you some options for repeats or current shows or last year's shows and you'll decide what you want and it will record them no matter where they are in our 1000 channels. Just upgrades to the software to make it easier for you to use, based on comments and suggestions we actually got from our viewers."​
*August Tech Chat audio clip transcript*:
"Name Based Recordings will start rolling out this year, the first models will be some new models, some new HT models that will be coming out in the fall. That will be followed by the 522, which will then be followed by the 510 and 721. So the 510 50x model series is scheduled for late in the year, first of next year."
"OK, so we got to hussle on that. So it is coming. We'll get that to you."
"Thats another good feature. It will let you do season pass type features, searches based on the name instead of actual events you select from the guide."​
*January Charlie Chat*
Charlie Ergen commenting on NBR on the 510:
We have these Monday morning staff meetings here, and I had the same question this morning. Only because that is a great feature.
[DESCRIPTION SNIPPED]​It is a great feature and it is scheduled in all the 510's 522's and I had the understanding this morning that it was already downloaded, but Jan you are saying not downloaded yet. So it will be a software upgrade to the box, and I assume - at the worst case you can ask the head of engineering who will be hosting this show in February. *And we should have it out by then.*
Great question, but it is coming. And again there is nothing you have to do, it is just a download automatically to your set top box to improve the functionality in the future.​
JL


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

So are you saying that I was right and that Dish did obviously say during the August tech chat that we would see name based recording features on the 510 and the 721 ?

I have the same notes you do from this August Tech chat including the remarks made by Renee Darby who worked on the 721/921 software team. She promised the following software updates on the 921 and gave approximate dates.
1) timer fixes by 8/11. 
2) overscan fixes- ota channels integrated into favorites guide by mid August. 
3) terrestrial epg functionality like the 811- mid Sept. :nono: 
4) open tv- Dish Home- by mid October. :nono: 

Notice none of this has happened when they said it would ,including giving it Dish Home or even terrestrial epg functionality like the 811. 

I got the same thing you did when it came to name based recording ; by the fall the 522 would get it, then late in the year or next year the 510 , followed by the 721 . I know they didn't mention the 921 , but what ever happens with the 721 should also happen to the 921. I still feel they will do so just to charge the dvr fee on the older pvr receives like th 501/508. It is essential that the 921 get it too if they are to continue to charge a dvr fee. Of course I will say it again, I don't see them doing so till next summer of fall when it won't matter any way. By then we will be swapping out mpeg2 hd receivers for the mpeg4 hd receivers. 

IF you read the response on my origional email from the Dish Network Ecare rep , she said that it took a while to do this because the software had to be built for each different receiver. This might be why she also said by summer that All receivers would have name based recording. Another reason why they need to stick to one kind of software instead of all these different ones now. Might also be why they are ending the Linux receivers. 

IF they just download name based recording to the 510 /721 /921 then I will be covered till the swap out for mpeg 4 conversion. Let's see if old Charlie will follow through with his promises.:sure:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Other than the sloppy use of the word "all" in the first quote the 921 wasn't mentioned in relation to NBR.

With the extra presure placed by Charlie in the January Chat I expect that we will see some movement.

JL


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

justalurker said:


> Other than the sloppy use of the word "all" in the first quote the 921 wasn't mentioned in relation to NBR.
> 
> With the extra presure placed by Charlie in the January Chat I expect that we will see some movement
> 
> JL


That use of the word 'ALL" was a direct quote from the email I received from Donna B at Dish Network Ecare. I only hope that it is true.

As far as me using the word" all" in referring to the tech chats , I might be wrong but they did outline that all existing pvr receivers like the 500 series and the 721 would get nbr. Now using your logic about the reason why they wouldn't put different software in the 510 vs the 501/508 receivers, then why would they use different software in the 721 vs the 921? Especially when we paid 999.00 for a hd dvr that doesn't do as much as the cheaper 721. I might have heard wrong but I thought someone promised on one of the tech chats that the 921 would receive name based recording as well. I have watched every month except Sept. when they didn't have one at all. I might have heard wrong.

It won't matter anyway when and if they ever add nbr to the 921 since by fall they will be swapping out the hd receivers anyway.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> That use of the word 'ALL" was a direct quote from the email I received from Donna B at Dish Network Ecare. I only hope that it is true.


I could care less about your unverified personal email from Donna. I'm talking about public statements made in the chats. Something that anyone with a recording and forsight to save the program can verify.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> As far as me using the word" all" in referring to the tech chats , I might be wrong but they did outline that all existing pvr receivers like the 500 series and the 721 would get nbr.


Only to the extent quoted above. That's why I did the transcripts, to show the words they actually used.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> Now using your logic about the reason why they wouldn't put different software in the 510 vs the 501/508 receivers, then why would they use different software in the 721 vs the 921?


They already do use different software in the 721 and 921. L1.74 for the 721 and L2.11 for the 921. The 510/508/501 series all use P2.23.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> I have watched every month except Sept. when they didn't have one at all.


They skipped October, not September.


Mike D-CO5 said:


> It won't matter anyway when and if they ever add nbr to the 921 since by fall they will be swapping out the hd receivers anyway.


As soon as E* has the technology to build MPEG4 into their technology they will.

JL


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## Moorebid (Jun 7, 2004)

Nice recap of all the references to NBR coming to all PVR's, justalurker, but you missed one interesting comment&#8230; at some point in one of the tech chats (several months ago if memory serves), Mark Jackson mentioned that he had it _working_ on his 508 at home!  In beta form, obviously, but there it was&#8230; confirmation that it existed. I'd like to know which chat that is exactly, and I'd like to shove that down their throat if they ever claim not to be developing it. Enough of this bullsh*t.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

justalurker said:


> I could care less about your unverified personal email from Donna. I'm talking about public statements made in the chats. Something that anyone with a recording and forsight to save the program can verify.Only to the extent quoted above. That's why I did the transcripts, to show the words they actually used.They already do use different software in the 721 and 921. L1.74 for the 721 and L2.11 for the 921. The 510/508/501 series all use P2.23.They skipped October, not September.As soon as E* has the technology to build MPEG4 into their technology they will.
> 
> JL


Okay, you win , you know EVERYTHING !

God I was trying to tell the public about my response from Dish on my question about name based recording. Whether you believe it or not I could really care less. It is obivous that you want to criticise everything I have written about the details about when and where and who said what . Whatever Dude! I can't help if you have so much time on your hands that you can index all the tech/ charlie chats down to exact quotes ,etc. I am only trying to give the people hope as to the response that I was given to a question many have asked about name based recording to the 921. Take what you will from the e-mail and you can stick the rest.

I will now add you to my ignore list as you have become a little to annoying for words.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I will now add you to my ignore list as you have become a little to annoying for words.


Sorry you can't be grown up enough to continue.

One tip, if not for you than for others, if you are quoting someone you may want to put the QUOTE /QUOTE brackets around their text. That way we would know what text was from Donna and what was from you.

Yes, it took time to find the old shows and get the exact words - but it is better than relying on "I think I heard them say that" kind of posts. You may think you heard them say that, but thanks to Mark's recaps I was able to find what was actually said. Some words were more damning than recalled, others were less. But at least we got back to FACTS and not fuzzy memories.

I'm sure there are people here who don't care about the facts, they just want to bash. I feel sorry for them. Facts will get you further toward resolving the problems than emotional outbursts.

JL


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Okay, you win , you know EVERYTHING !
> 
> He certainly thinks so!
> :nono2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

clapple said:


> Mike D-CO5 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, you win , you know EVERYTHING !
> ...


When I don't know everything it is from lack of trying.

Now lets get back to talking about E* satellite service, OK?

JL


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## Geeke19 (Oct 16, 2004)

cant wait for Broadband!!!


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## lovswr (Jan 13, 2004)

DS0816 said:


> Gotta ask you folks something: For those who are frustrated with the price increase, and a lack of substantial [Standard Definition] channel additions to offset the increase, are you considering dropping Dish Network service?


I'm going to go to D* as soon as my wallet allows. But not for the price increase. I want TIVO.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I forgot, - Did they say at the end of this last Charlie Chat when the NEXT Charlie Chat is going to be?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Darkman said:


> I forgot, - Did they say at the end of this last Charlie Chat when the NEXT Charlie Chat is going to be?


Yes, they did.

JL


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

... and - When is the "NEXT Charlie Chat going to be" then? 

Geeze...


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Quoted from my summary:



> Just got back from CES! Roll Video! It's Dan Landreth! (One of our very good friends that Jason and I work closely with for the support forums.) Picture of 942! Notice how there's no cable pig as part of their booth this year. Tech Forum Monday February 14, 2005, 9:00pm EST - ask the engineers your questions about all of the new products that we can't answer.


Next Charlie Chat would then fall on March 14th at 9:00pm EST.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

oh.. ok.. i missed it then 
sorry

but still .. the date is not official then (for next Charlie chat)?
it's estimated?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I stand corrected. They did not announce the date of the next Charlie Chat, only the Tech Forum. (I thought they showed both slides at the end, but only the Tech Forum one was shown or spoken of.)

JL


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## wcj116 (Jan 7, 2005)

I've with Dish since '97 and paid through the nose for everything. 501 and 510. local cable "all n one" has roadrunner, digital phone (us,canada,pr) and digital cable w/hd locals starting at $122 a month - good-by charlie.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I think from Charlie's point of view it would be better to download nbr to all older pvr receivers and then he could charge EVERYONE the dvr fee.


Charlie explicitedly said and clarified several times that the 501s and 508s will be free of DVR fees for the life of the receivers. Period.

However, IIRC, they reserve the right to charge for specific new features that would then be optional.

(Sorry for bringing an old thread to the top, but I was reading it, and wanted to clarify this point for future readers of this thread.)


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

kstuart said:


> Charlie explicitedly said and clarified several times that the 501s and 508s will be free of DVR fees for the life of the receivers. Period.
> 
> However, IIRC, they reserve the right to charge for specific new features that would then be optional.
> 
> (Sorry for bringing an old thread to the top, but I was reading it, and wanted to clarify this point for future readers of this thread.)


 Really. When was that said? Not that it matters, he LIES as a matter of course, so you can't believe anything anyway.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

The words he used in describing the free PVR service were "FOR NOW"

This means PVR service is free on the 501/508/721 FOR NOW.

This means that it could end at any time. And as I've stated before, the first time I pay a nickel for PVR service it will not be to Dish...PERIOD.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Just another proof that threads should auto-close if there are no new posts in a month (or less).

JL


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

justalurker said:


> Just another proof that threads should auto-close if there are no new posts in a month (or less).
> 
> JL


Yup, locked and archived after 30 days of inactivity. Chris what are your thoughts?


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