# 5th 722 in 6 months. Is it electrical?



## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

The only plus for this unit is that it can record up to 350 hours on SD.

I'm on my 5th unit since November of 2008 - waiting for a Field Service 
Manager 3 right now.

I'm an "active" participant in my TV viewing. If I'm watching a show and like 
it, I do searches for more of the same, others similar or actors that are in a
that show. I like to search - as I'm watching shows - to see what's on -

I could do all of this without problem on the 522.

*After a very short while - less than a week with a couple of the units, the 
unit becomes very sluggish in its response time for setting timers, searching,
etc. until it finally freezes up and shuts down. Then, the unit just cycles on
and off every 6 - 10 minutes.

I had to add the external hard drive so that I could keep all of the 
shows/movies safe.

*This unit has repeatedly set 3 and 4 timers to go off at the same time - it's 
designed to allow a maximum of 2 timers simultaneously

*Often, when I check "history", it will display a show as "done" yet, when I
check the "my recordings", the show is not there.

*Often, when I search with Dish Pass, it will come back with 
results that are completely different - in every way - from the show I 
entered (for instance, a search for NCIS (exact match) brought back - "No
results for Fringe")

*The <<<Back button is supposed to go back 10 seconds.... and, it often
goes back up to as much as 10 MINUTES.

*In Dish Pass, I will set a show to record in Standard Definition - no 
particular station - and, it will show up in the "timers" to record in High Def.

*some of the units have started the recordings as much as 10
minutes after the set time or just stopped recording before the 
end of the show.

*Closed captioning shows up sometimes and sometimes not. Sometimes,
it comes on part way through a show.

*Once in awhile, when I puch the <<<<skip back button, the show continues
going forward. I have to push the other back button to get the show to
go back.

* sometimes, when setting a timer for a new show, I get a notice of a conflict.
When I go to the schedule, there may be a number of shows that are crossed
out (skipped) = and only 1 timer set for that time slot - which would mean 
that there is actually NO conflict.

When I press "restore" on the show that I want, I get a message "recording 
this even will skip the following".... and, the "following" are shows that are
already skipped

There are a number of other goofy issues.

Dish people keep telling me that the problem is electrical. I believe 
that it is software related or a combination of software and less than 
adequate hardware (it's usually the lowest bidder that gets the job).

I have 4 computers, TV, and two electronic sewing machines in this 
room and none of these have ever had a problem. Never blown a breaker, 
either.

The Dish 522 ran in the same spot - flawlessly - for about 5 years.

The 722K is plugged into an APC UPS (uninterruptable power supply) 
because we get lots of brown outs and spurt power failures out in the 
country.

Bottom line, I'm frustrated beyond frustration. I'm thinking that,
"when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail"...

Dish people ALL want to blame it on electrical.

If the issues *IS* electrical, why is the 722K the ONLY thing 
that is having a problem?

If you are a passive user/TV watcher, I guess the unit would 
be fine.

If you like to surf/search/set timers/move things around - save 
your sanity and get something else.

If anyone else has been experiencing any of these issues or 
has some insights, I'd really appreciate hearing from you.

My husband has worked with electronics for about 30 years and 
electrical "stuffs" for about 10 and insists that the issues have 
nothing to do with electricity.

Your feedback, experience and insights will be greatly appreciated.


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

5 722s in 6 months,5 in 5 years is out of the ordinary. I wish I could help you. All I can say is it has to be something on your end. Keep it on the APC UPS and if the problems continue try a 622. If you need more storage on the 622 get a external hard drive. Hope things work out for you.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Whew! I have grumbles about my 722 and my 612, but never a failure in more than 18 months and they're behind an APC UPS. We're out in the country and have brownouts etc. I've even run them on our generator through the UPS and no problem. And I move stuff between the units using the EHD's (I have four of those), I set timers, I skip and ff while two HD shows record (not so much with the 612 as it seems to struggle with that).

When you say 5th 722, can we assume you had 722's before you had a 722k? Is everything grounded to a single ground? What's the rest of the A/V system connected to the 722k?


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Brandon and Phrelin

Thanks for your responses.

Why would it have to be something on my end (you peaked and
we don't even know one another ? The 522 was in the same
location with no problems whatsoever.

No issues with computers.

This is the second 722K

Are you a "considerate" user? As in, do you select a feature and
wait for it to complete its task or, do you sometimes select the
wrong thing, cancel and immediately select something else? 

Do you try to do several things in quick succession?

They are behaving like my old computers used to... I'd do something
and expect an instant response and start to move onto the next
thing and the next and the poor old computer would get so bogged
down that it would freeze and crash. I was spoiled with the 522.
If I could use my external hard drive on the 522, I'd go back.

The installer checked the outlet and said that it was an "open"?
outlet so, we ran an extension cord to another room that had
brand new wiring - all by itself. Made no difference.

Everything is grounded. That's been checked several times.

Do you think that any of these issues could have anything to
do with the UPS or with the external hard drive? Again, thanks
Karen


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

kstavert said:


> Why would it have to be something on my end (you peaked and we don't even know one another ? The 522 was in the same location with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> No issues with computers.


We used to have two 508's. The ViP's are obviously more sophisticated and demandiing and the software seems more kludgy.

The reason I asked about what it's all connected to in your A/V system is that some here have had bad experiences and they might relate to your system.



> This is the second 722K


The 722k is a new model. It would not surprise me to see hardware weaknesses.



> Are you a "considerate" user? As in, do you select a feature and
> wait for it to complete its task or, do you sometimes select the
> wrong thing, cancel and immediately select something else?
> 
> ...


 Our 508's were very responsive to remote commands. Our 722 and 612 are not so forgiving. If I try to do things too fast, they do lock up. I have no idea what would happen if I did that frequently.



> The installer checked the outlet and said that it was an "open"? outlet so, we ran an extension cord to another room that had brand new wiring - all by itself. Made no difference.
> 
> Everything is grounded. That's been checked several times.


An open outlet could mean several things. But assuming your UPS works on the newer circuitry it should be ok.



> Do you think that any of these issues could have anything to
> do with the UPS or with the external hard drive?


It's possible that the UPS is causing a problem. The EHD seems unlikely if it works.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

The only thing plugged into the 722 is the EHD.

The Dish output goes through the DVD player.

Two of the 722's were plugged into an outlet (new wiring)
in another room for a week - NO UPS - and had the same
issues.

I beleive the problems are because I'm asking more
of the units than they are capable of handling. I'm
treating them as if they are the same as the 522's.

I keep asking "If the problem is electrical, why is there
no problem with my computers or my electronic
sewing machines?".... since, the DVR's are basically
computers? Computers with crappy hardware and
poorly written software?


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

That's what I meant also about it being something on your end. Perhaps it has something to do with AV equipment you have it connected to.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well first off.. I think we need to determine why the 5 were swapped. A number of the issues you talk about need more detail to go further. I suggest lets start with the swapping issue and some come gotchas. The 522 is definitely different that the 722 in the the 722 also deals with OTA. That is one long laundry list and the issues you are talking about are very wide spread. So can you list why each one was swapped? 

Ok.. the 722 is on an APC the 522 was on.. First question I would ask is are you sure it is not undersized. The 722 draws more power than the 522 I believe. The other thing to check is heat... Where is the unit located. Is it in open air? What is the HDD temperature readings (Get those off your diagnostics). 

Are you using OTA? That will help with some of the timer questions. 

Does your box connect to the internet? If so how and have you tried using the sing guide. To me it has a better way of finding conflicts. 

Now to timer related questions. How many Timer/Timer Events/Dish Passes do you have. Timer count can be found on the Timer screen. Timer events can be see on the Schedule screen and dish Passes can also be found on the Timer screen. In some cases previous Tivo users use Dish Passes because they think they are like Season Pass. New/All are more season pass like and Dish Passes seem to CPU intensive and my suggestion is always use those sparingly. 

As for the Dish Pass with SD recording HD, Need more Timer specific info. Can you provide the Timer settings for a Dish Pass that exhibits this behavior?

I know you asked a lot more questions and We will bounce them around here in this thread.. But I plan on focusing on just a few at a time so I don't lose sight of the issue... First ones are the Timers and why 5 boxes swapped in your time frame. 

One thing you might want to try if you swap again is swapping the LNB out. 

As for your list.. I can assure you that all these issues are not electrical related but I can't say one way or another if you have an electrical issue or not.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

The 722 will draw more power and create more heat. It's processor load is MUCH higher, as HD requires a LOT more work to decode, so, again, more heat. And, yes, you may need to slow down some on the menu navigation. If you're constantly running ahead of its ability to keep up, bad things are going to happen.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

BattleZone said:


> If you're constantly running ahead of its ability to keep up, bad things are going to happen.


Putting my software hat on, bad things should not happen.. The box may appear to be behind and in my opinion you should stop and let it catch up or there is no way of telling if you accidentally hit a wrong key and delete something you did not want to, but bad things like a reboot should not happen. If they are and can be reproduced, by all means provide the steps so we can validate them here.. This is why we are here.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

This whole thing... change from 522 to 722 started out because
I wanted a DVR that I could hook an external hard drive up to.
I do not yet have an HD TV, so don't care about HD - YET!

I checked with Dish and was instructed to get the 722.

Right from the beginning, the first NEW 722 was very slow to
respond to any "command". It was not about remote batteries.

Other than being slow, it worked OK for about 2 months. Then,
one night while watching a show, recording another and doing
some searching and setting timers, the unit froze up and shut
itself down. After that, just about any time I did anything, 
the unit froze and shut down/rebooted.

Dish sent two (don't know why) refurbished 722's. My husband
installed the first one and, within about 4 days, it was doing
the same thing... freezing and shutting down. At the end,
it was running for about 6 - 10 minutes and shutting down/
rebooting.

A tech fellow came out and installed the second refurb.
Within 10 minutes of leaving, the unit froze and shut down -
when I was setting new timers. It lasted about 1 week.

A new tech/installer came out and checked all of the cables,
the ground wire, the dish and LNB and, just to be on the
safe side, redid all of the cables and connectors.

Everyone has checked the temp and said that it's fine.
The units are out in the open.

Units two, three and four all did the freeze, shut down,
reboot, run for 6 - 10 minutes.... freeze, shut down.... etc.
Had I had unit #1 any longer, I don't doubt that it would
have done the same.

with units two and three, I could easily replicate the problem.

I can probably do so with this one...

1. press "guide"
2. search
3. set timer
4. change priority
5. or/ delete a set timer

usually when I'm watching a prerecorded show (often, a timer
or two is going, as well).

That usually did the trick. If not the first time, after two or 
three different searches/timer settings/change priority.

The machine begins to slow down in its response after 
a couple of the above routines.

As for the UPS, it's not the issue because we ran two of the
units for a week without the UPS (Dish said that the UPS was
probably the problem) and they still crapped out.

We do not use OTA.

I have been looking through the guide much more frequently
lately because of the multiple timers/same time and, set timers
not actually recording.

There are 90 timers set. Most for movies that I want to record
to move to the external hard drive - so, they are on Dish Pass. 
The timer conflict is only on shows that I watch regularly.

The box does NOT connect to the internet.

on to HD and Dish Pass. Instead of constantly searching
for movies with specific actors in them, I use the actor's
name in Dish Pass. Because I want to save the movie
to the External Hard Drive, I am recording them in Standard
Definition. I specify that in the "set resolution" in Dish Pass.

When I look at the list of timers, it has a large, bold HD
beside many of the timers that I've set - and specified
SD on.

I REALLY, REALLY appreciate your help. Thanks Karen


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Ron Barry said:


> Putting my software hat on, bad things should not happen.. The box may appear to be behind and in my opinion you should stop and let it catch up or there is no way of telling if you accidentally hit a wrong key and delete something you did not want to, but bad things like a reboot should not happen. If they are and can be reproduced, by all means provide the steps so we can validate them here.. This is why we are here.


You can't really run ahead of the unit.. since the unit only lets you do one step at
a time.

I guess it is possible to ask the unit to do too many things in a row? Which, for me, 
is usually search for show/actor - set timer/change priority - delete timer.

I don't understand why those functions should be so problematic for the 722. They
all worked just fine on the 522. Karen


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

How many Dishpass timers do you have? Having a large number of them creates a great deal of extra load on the receiver and has been known to cause slow responses and reboots. I suspect you are in that boat. If you have a lot of them, try eliminating what you can to get the number down and see if the receiver starts responding quicker.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Chuck

Thanks for the info. It surprised me when I counted the number
of Dish Pass timers.... 44

Why would Dish Pass timers put such a strain on the system?

If it's that much of a problem, why is it available?

And, all of the other issues started long before I discovered
Dish Pass  

So, how many DP timers can I have? Thanks a bunch Karen


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

"There are 90 timers set. Most for movies that I want to record
to move to the external hard drive - so, they are on Dish Pass.
The timer conflict is only on shows that I watch regularly"

ChuckA is on to the same place I was going. IF you want to record a movie, use one time, All or New. 

The theory I have is that Dish Passes have to do a lot more searching through the textual aspect of each show searching for a show. All/New/Once go by the show and episode ID so they don't search the textual aspect of the show. This searching and the fact that Dish Pass has more options to deal with requires more cycles to manage in theory.

Here is what I see the purpose of each timer.

1) One time. This is a good use of recording that movie you hunted for and found. A one time timer will move 4 hours in either direction so if it does get moved a bit all is well. (Going from Memory)

2) All/New - this is what you use to record your series like Lost. Use New if you are confident in the guide data being accurate (Locals usually are) or All if you lake the confidence. 

3) Weekly/Daily - These are good for those kid shows that repeat tons of times. Find the slots where new ones show up and use these timers for that. Kids don't know about things like first run etc and they just want a bank of shows to watch. I use these for things like sponge bob and pokemon.

4) Dish Pass - These are the hunters of the receiver. They should be hunting for a particular movie that you cant find yourself through search or a particular actor or topic like UFO. I personally recommend keeping these down to less than 10 but I now people have ran with higher numbers.

So here is what is happening I think. You are running at 90 timers which is close to the max and 50% of them are the most CPU intensive type of timer. When you go through and create a timer a lot of work with that timer and all the other timers (Dish Pass) happens.

Should Dish protect against this configuration. Based on posts I have seen here I think they should and only allow a certain percentage of Dish Passes or have a limit on them in the system. 

How many can you have? From what I have seen.. All timers can be DP, but as you can see that causes issues and therefore I would not recommend it. I would recommend to try and stay around 10. If you are searching and selecting movies to watch use the one shot as it will be the least CPU intensive timer. 

I am pretty positive that if you follow these guidelines, your receiver will become much more responsive overall and the reboots will stop.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

Some of the problems here are known to exist on other ViP models.

But the bulk of these sound more like heat or possibly electrical. The 6-10 minute recurrence over 5 units is just too coincidental.

What is on the APC, and which model do you have?


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

Do you have any TV/Radio/Cell/high tension electrical towers in your immediate area?

Do any of your close neighbors also have E*? If so, they might be using the same remote code as you are using and could be controlling your reciever.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

It's possible that the UPS may be faulty. Has it been bypassed to see if the problem goes away? APC UPS's are pretty cheap. Maybe try a new one.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for all of the input.

The APC is brand new... purchased just for this unit. And, the DVR was
plugged into brand new wiring - bypassing the UPS (actually, we did this with
both unit 4 and 5) and they still died.

No neighbours with remote issues.

Husband's unit works fine - most of the time.

He did set a timer for a special show - canceling two others in that time 
slot. The two canceled shows recorded and skipped the special show 
that he'd set to record.

His unit also has the "up to 10 *minutes* back with the "skip back" button - 
should only be 10 SECONDS.

Going through the timeline with David, I didn't start using the Dish Pass
until unit 4 (didn't know about it). Currently, there are more DP timers 
set than I had on unit 4 and this unit is performing better than unit 4.
Probably because I'm not doing much searching or changing priorities.

I copied the list of timers from unit 4 and entered timers in the same
order on unit 5 - so, didn't have to change priority.

I use the DP timer to look for movies/artists so that I don't constantly
have to search. (I see a movie that's on a channel that I don't get so
set a timer to search for it when it comes to a channel that I do get) So,
they are one time timers - except for the fact that I can't determine what
station they will find the movie on.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Like I said above, Lots of issue are listed and hard to tell. My suggestion would be... Drop the DP timers to around 10 and then see if stablization occurs. Also keep your timers around 70 to 80. I believe Kent is running at 96 but has no DPs so you can run at the top end, but with DPs I would run a bit lighters and see if the sluggishness goes away. If stability returns to the box we could then focus on the other issues if they are still there. To me this is a good starting point in the trouble shooting sequence. If you don't want to adjust, I think you will continue to have this unusual behavior.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I believe Kent is running at 96 but has no DPs so you can run at the top end...


I'm down to 93 timers with three Dish Passes. I've not noticed that maxing out the timers has caused a problem.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I think the main problem with Dishpass timers is the number of events they can generate. A Dishpass can find lots of events for a show that is on several channels and several times a day/week. The generated events may be skipped for duplicate, or piority or whatever, but they still generate events that are placed into the schedule of events. I don't believe having a lot of timers in and of itself is a problem, but a very large schedule of events is a problem and Dishpass timers is a quick way there. Perhaps Dishpass timers that are not generating events are not a problem.

It would seem logical the overhead of just having a timer would only come into play when there is a change to the Guide. At that point the schedule is built/modified and that takes a lot of cycles. However, at other times the existance of the timer causes no overhead.

On the other hand, a lot of what the DVR has to do is based on the current schedule of events. Anytime a change is made such as a priority changed, an event manually skipped/activated, an event completing, a new timer added etc, the change must be applied to the current schedule. Therefore, the larger the schedule the more cycles it takes to apply the change.

I also believe that when some processes are started by the receiver they have a time limit in which they are expected to complete. When they don't complete within the expected time, the receiver thinks there are problems going on that can only be corrected with a fresh boot and that's when you see automatic reboots occur.

Just my view of things as someone that has developed software scheduling systems in the past.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Totally agree with you Chuck and that is why I asked for the number of timer events also. However, I do think that Dish Passes use more resources to determine the timer events to include. Also, from my experience playing with Priority conflict a few months indicated that this conflict resolution occurs at timer trigger time. From that I have assumed that some other things occur in the back ground etc where different types of timers might effect things differently. It is possible not to be the case, but bottom line is.. The percentage of DishPasses to Timers that the OP posted is a red flag. Knowing the number of timer events (Hit DVR three times) would be another data point. 

First step to me is lower the CPU resource consumption on the box. Yes the box should handle all possible configuration, but based on some other experiences here I think this use case exposes a bug. To determine this.. my recommendation is drop down to less than 10 passes and between 70 to 80 timers and work from there. I would also try to get the Timer events in the 300 to 400 range.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't know about you, but my 625 (the same thing as your 522 except for HD size) would start to bog down once the number of event climbed past 160-180. I monitor that pretty close. The limit maybe higher in the 722K models - but I would watch what you're doing.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Have not seen this asked, so I'm going to ask...

Since you say you are a pretty active/interactive user... How long is your receiver on per day? Do you allow it to go into standby during the overnight to do its nightly garbage collection/guide updates?


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

I will decrease the number of timers.... And, I still don't think that's
the WHOLE problem.

The units were shutting down before I knew about Dish Pass and
long before I had 90 timers set = probably down in the 50-70 timer
range.

*The issues usually occurred when I was watching a pre-recorded
show, with one or more shows in process of being recorded and,
I'd do a search for show/actor.*

Yes, the unit shuts down (4 hour inactivity standby) and at night
for it's nightly dump/update.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Not doubting you kstavert and we might be talking about multiple things here. I just now that 44 Dish Passes and 90 Timers is definitely on the edge and I would start there. 

If I have time this weekend I will try and see if I can reproduce your scenario. I watch pre-recorded with multiple shows being recorded on a weekly basis and I do searching and have not had this issue before so it might be caused by how exactly you do it. If you do have exact detail steps that would be cool.

Also can you report back the number of timer events you have in your system before reducing timers?


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Ron, there are a total of 117 timer events scheduled over the
next 8 days.

The total number of timers set is 90 - which includes 44 Dish Pass
timers... not 90 timers PLUS 44 dish pass. 

I'd not encourage you to reproduce the experience I've had since
the unit seemed to go downhill rather quickly after the first time
freezing and shutting down.

Here's a possible scenario... Say I come across a movie that looks good
but it's already started... So, I do a search for it - either using DP or the
little quick search button.

Then, I might look to see what other movies or shows there are with
the actors in that same movie... so, there's 4 potential searches...

Possibly timers set for several movies/shows from those searches. Then,
dealing with the timer conflicts and changing priority. 

Now, as fast as the unit produced results, I'd go onto the next search or
timer set, etc.

I used to just go to the schedule and skip timers until the show I wanted
was set.

This scenario started the DVR to freeze and shut down...

On unit 3 or 4, I found out about Dish Pass and started using "Set Priority"
button. I'm not sure but. that may have made the freeze / shut down
happen sooner. Units 2 and 3 were refurbs. Unit 4 and 5 are the 722K - new.

The unit that I have now just freezes. It won't shut down. I have to 
push the power button on the unit to reboot. Karen


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes I know. The timer limit of all timers if 97.. So you have 44 DPs and 46 Other timers. You also have a very low count of timer events from my experience. I still think you need to get your DPs to around 10 and then see what happens. 

What baffles me is with only 117 timer events you should not be running into a lot of conflicts.. Can you enlighten me how this is happening? I am finding it rather odd that you are having to do so much conflict resolution. I have about 40 timers and close to 300 timer events. I rarely have to do timer event conflict resolution. Are you moving your priorities a lot? 

Just so you know. From some testing we did a while back as a group, we determined that Priority only comes into effect if two timer events fire at the same time and it only comes into effect after the duplicate event check as been made. 

So why all the mucking with Priorities etc? I know this is a side bar to the initial issue but just trying to get a feel for your use case. The trigger might be caused by a lot of manipulation.. 

As for it perminatly causing issues with the box.. Going to have to look more into it. I would suggest on getting the timer count down and seeing if you can place your box into stanby since right now you can't.. That would be one step in the right direction.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

The HD logo is shown because the channel you are recording is a HD channel. Since you have no need for HD, why not lock out the HD channels and leave only the SD versions? I do the reverse since we have HD sets. I even lock out the movie channels that are only offered in SD :lol: Drives my wife nuts. Doesn't bother her to watch SD on the HD sets so hers have all the channels offered and only have the SD locked out if there is a HD version.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

I just checked. You cannot lock out HD channels.

The options are "All Channels" "All Subscribed" "All HD" and then, 
lists.... We have the HD channels because it costs less to have
them than to not.

Everytime I set a timer, I specify *ONLY SD*. Doesn't seem to matter.
There's no rhyme or reason as to why it shows up as HD - when I've
specified SD.

I do contract sewing from home. Can't "watch" new stuff but I 
can listen and follow along on shows/movies that I've seen before so,
I record lots of old shows. Many of them are on several different
channels and often on at the same times or on during evening
shows that I record - hence, the need to rearrange some shows.

The DVR seems to be more stable - even *BEFORE I removed a bunch
of timers.* Down to 78 - 5 DP (old shows on several stations) and 19
for actors or specific movies that I want to record that are not currently
on the schedule.

It's still doing goofy things like, on "record all events" it will occasionally 
record all of the duplicate events of some shows... I've deleted the 
timer and reset it and it does the same.

Or, one show playing. Pull up guide. Select "info" for a show that's
highlighted in the guide and the info that comes up is for the show
that's playing - not for the highlighted show? Karen


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

kstavert said:


> I just checked. You cannot lock out HD channels.
> 
> The options are "All Channels" "All Subscribed" "All HD" and then,
> lists.... We have the HD channels because it costs less to have
> them than to not.


I just checked the How to on the Dish Tech Portal 722 manual and you can lock out channels. Just as you can on a 622.

On the 622 you can lock out anything you don't want. Except for a couple of the Dish info channels. You have to have the system locked first. Then Menu>Locks(enter pass code)>Channel Locks and then select the ones you want locked out. Once locked out the channels don't appear in the guides anymore if you select Hide Locked Channels.


> Everytime I set a timer, I specify *ONLY SD*. Doesn't seem to matter.
> There's no rhyme or reason as to why it shows up as HD - when I've
> specified SD.


I never use Dish Pass but it looks like this option is supposed to choose between a HD channel and SD channel if both are offered. Do you have both HD and SD channels that you are recording? If both resolutions are available and it isn't recording SD after selecting that option then there is a problem. But, maybe you are recording in SD and the HD logo is displayed because the program was on a HD channel. Maybe the DVR is actually down converting to SD. Also, on the 622 and I would think the 722 you can select the output resolution for the DVR. Menu>System Setup>HDTV Setup and select the TV Type resolution you want. You can also set the Aspect ration on that screen.



> I do contract sewing from home. Can't "watch" new stuff but I
> can listen and follow along on shows/movies that I've seen before so,
> I record lots of old shows. Many of them are on several different
> channels and often on at the same times or on during evening
> ...


On the 622 for a Dish Pass recording All Events means all events, both new and repeat.



> Or, one show playing. Pull up guide. Select "info" for a show that's
> highlighted in the guide and the info that comes up is for the show
> that's playing - not for the highlighted show? Karen


Yeah, that's a problem. On a 622 you can be watching a live program and bring up the guide, highlight a different program at a different time on a different channel and get the Info for the highlighted program. Same for a recorded program.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The recording of duplicate events. That can happend if the episode Ids are not set. A duplicate is defined as having the same show and episode id. Possible even the same air date. If any of those are not the same they are considered different and will be recorded. 

What is the show you are seeing this on?

As to the Dish Pass SD only.. OldGuy does have the expectations. To validate this as an issues, Provide an example so we can look at it. 

I tried to duplicate your experience with searching while watching a pre-recorded show and have not seen any issues. I will try creating some dish passes in the similar fashion this weekend but would like to play with the SD content and if you had some examples that would be good. 

Since this is a HD receiver and my guess is not a lot of people created SD Only Dish Passes I would not be suprised if there was a bug in there. I did try this a while back and did not run into any issues, but would be worth trying again. More details you can provide the easier someone can confirm this issue.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

Duplicate event timer.... 

I selected "Primeval" on 122, Friday at 11:00 p.m. It is episode #5. 

Episode #5 also plays at 9 p.m. on the same channel - same day.

I selected record "All" (I do this because schedules change so much
and I don't want to have to always check) When I looked at the guide,
both times had a timer set. Both times had show ID number.

As I'm writing this, I'm going through the DVR, checking exact
sequence to get to some of these "issues".

I found a couple of shows that were set to record in HD - 
SciFi channel - Eureka was one.

I canceled the show and set it to record on the NON HD
channel

then, I tried to do a search for another show - don't remember
what it was now because the DVR froze on the "get results"

It's been on "get results" now for 32 minutes. Finally came back - without
results.

I selected "Stargate Atlantis" on Dish Pass - specified ONLY SD. The DVR
is recording both SD and HD. The show is often on SciFi - which is both
in SD and HD - the DVR opts often for HD.

Try writing out a list - 4 to 6 shows and/or actors - and do a search, 
set timers, and change priorities... try something like NCIS or Boston Legal 
or Stargate Atlantis (they are on often and on several different channels)
If memory serves, the DVR froze and shut down more often when I used
Dish Pass for all of this than when I used the other search tool.

Karen


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good post Karen. Got a few things there to try out. I still think you are two high on your dish passes though and that could be effecting your searching. To hard to tell at this point.. but definitely have a few things to look at.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

kstavert said:


> Duplicate event timer....
> 
> I selected "Primeval" on 122, Friday at 11:00 p.m. It is episode #5.
> 
> ...


Ok.. I looked into this one. Reason this is happening is that that the AIR date differs between the two shows so they are treated like different shows. Garbage in.. Garbage out. When you run into this.. Also look at the episode and air date. Both have to be equal.



> I found a couple of shows that were set to record in HD -
> SciFi channel - Eureka was one.
> 
> I selected "Stargate Atlantis" on Dish Pass - specified ONLY SD. The DVR
> ...


I set Dish Pass Timers for both these shows and did some toggling back and forth between HD only and SD only and i was getting the right results. I did have one instance where it happened to be showing the wrong thing but it could have been a fat finger on my part. I did this about 5 to 10 times and could not reproduce the issue .



> Try writing out a list - 4 to 6 shows and/or actors - and do a search,
> set timers, and change priorities... try something like NCIS or Boston Legal
> or Stargate Atlantis (they are on often and on several different channels)
> If memory serves, the DVR froze and shut down more often when I used
> Dish Pass for all of this than when I used the other search tool.


I played around with search for about 30 minutes tonight and did not run into any sluggishness or my box freezing. Are you sure you only have right around 100 Timer events (Press DVR 3 times from a Picture to get the Timer event count). WIth the number of timers I just have a hard time seeing how your timer events are so low. I am at 33 timers and 173 timer events.

I still think you need to get your Dish Passes down to 10 and a total number of timers Dish Pass/Other timers no more than 70 and run the box a while at those numbers and see if your search problems still happen. Just a suggest as you troubleshoot the problem.

Not sure what is happening with the recording HD channels. If you see this happen again, go into your Dish Pass, set it to SD Only and press Done. One thing to keep in mind, I have seen where the settings don't reflect the current setting when you access them so I would not trust the setting and would set it to what you want and press done and see if it gives you the results you need.

Is your DVR in our outside a cabinet?


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

I have a 622 that I got when they first came out in Feb 06 , it has 77 timers and 265 events. NO dish passes and works fine a second 622 with about the same # of timers and events this one is 2 yrs old, never have problems like you have and I have never used dish passes


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

oljim, 

Just so I am clear on my suggestion regarding timer reduction. We have had at least 2 to 3 threads where a previous Tivo user joins the Dish world and think the DishPass is the same as the Season Pass in the Tivo world. The person then creates all his Season Timers using Dish Pass and not All/New. 

The result that has been reported is receiver instability. That is the reason for my recommendation. Go down to a reduced level and see if life become good. If it does my next suggestion would be to slow increase the timers and see if life becomes bad again.. That will strongly support the theory if this happens. 

Then again, the op does not have to try this approach.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Ron Barry said:


> oljim,
> 
> Just so I am clear on my suggestion regarding timer reduction. We have had at least 2 to 3 threads where a previous Tivo user joins the Dish world and think the DishPass is the same as the Season Pass in the Tivo world. The person then creates all his Season Timers using Dish Pass and not All/New.
> 
> ...


I think you are right, I have never used a dish pass and and never had any problems with my 622s. For movies I use one time record and for Network shows I use New only. I think she should lock out the HD channels, that would reduce the # of channels the the 722 is looking at/for


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Locking out definitely would help on the guide and in the search screens. However, I think the lock feature is mainly a UI feature and would not result in helping searching performance, thought since I am not familiar with code I could be wrong on that point. 

Always a good idea to lock channels out and use the hide locked channels to make your guide easier to use. I really wish they would separate locked form hide so that I can hide channels and still keep my receiver unlocked. I understand why they tied the two together, but for my use case I would to have both a hide channel feature and a hide locked channel feature and have them separate. There are channels I want locked and hidden and there are channels I want hidden even when my receiver is unlocked.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Ron Barry said:


> Locking out definitely would help on the guide and in the search screens. However, I think the lock feature is mainly a UI feature and would not result in helping searching performance, thought since I am not familiar with code I could be wrong on that point.
> 
> Always a good idea to lock channels out and use the hide locked channels to make your guide easier to use. I really wish they would separate locked form hide so that I can hide channels and still keep my receiver unlocked. I understand why they tied the two together, but for my use case I would to have both a hide channel feature and a hide locked channel feature and have them separate. There are channels I want locked and hidden and there are channels I want hidden even when my receiver is unlocked.


Good point Ron I wish they had a hide, I do not care to lock out any, just get the usless ones out of my EPG


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Locking out definitely would help on the guide and in the search screens. However, I think the lock feature is mainly a UI feature and would not result in helping searching performance, thought since I am not familiar with code I could be wrong on that point.
> 
> Always a good idea to lock channels out and use the hide locked channels to make your guide easier to use. I really wish they would separate locked form hide so that I can hide channels and still keep my receiver unlocked. I understand why they tied the two together, but for my use case I would to have both a hide channel feature and a hide locked channel feature and have them separate. There are channels I want locked and hidden and there are channels I want hidden even when my receiver is unlocked.


Customized favorite list won't work for your purposes? I'm just curious now


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I think they would recommend using a custom list if you just don't want to see some channels in your Guide. And, that might work if we had a way to copy an existing list like All Sub to a new list and then remove the channels from the new list. Without the copy function, it's just too much work.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

ChuckA said:


> I think they would recommend using a custom list if you just don't want to see some channels in your Guide. And, that might work if we had a way to copy an existing list like All Sub to a new list and then remove the channels from the new list. Without the copy function, it's just too much work.


I do use the custom lists, what I lock out is all the 4 diget channels and the SD channels when they have a HD for same #


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

ChuckA said:


> I think they would recommend using a custom list if you just don't want to see some channels in your Guide. And, that might work if we had a way to copy an existing list like All Sub to a new list and then remove the channels from the new list. Without the copy function, it's just too much work.


Chuck I see you have a 722k, are the OTA tunners as good as the 622?


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

ChuckA said:


> I think they would recommend using a custom list if you just don't want to see some channels in your Guide. And, that might work if we had a way to copy an existing list like All Sub to a new list and then remove the channels from the new list. Without the copy function, it's just too much work.


Chuck,

Your comment confuses me. When you Create or Add or Remove channels to a custom list, *all* channels *are* shown. You just click on the channels you wish to have displayed in your custom list. It takes just a couple of minutes to create and less time to edit it in the future.


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

There must have been goonies in my DVR's...

A Field Service Manager 3 came out today to see if he could
figure out what was going on.

He said that it was not about electricity.

I tried - for about 45 minutes before he came - to reproduce
some/any of the issues I've been having.

The unit didn't mess up or freeze up even once - and, I added
a bunch more timers... Now have 170 events scheduled.

Many of the Dish Pass Timers are set for movies or shows
in the future - not currently on the schedule .

He did say that there are 15,000,000 Dish customers who all
access the same Hard Drive for their programming and that that
sometimes bogs down the system..... 

He also said that, technically, we should be able to see at least
TWO WEEKS of programming. The most I get is 8 days.

I sooooooo appreciate the input and help from all of you. I'm
crossing my fingers, toes, eyes and anything else I can and
hope that the DVR has finished with whatever goofyness it was
doing. Again, a heartfelt THANKS Karen


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

Oh, and something not all may know. Using the page up and page down buttons on the remote lets you go through the list of channels when doing that or locks a page of channels at a time. Can help save a little time


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

oljim said:


> Chuck I see you have a 722k, are the OTA tunners as good as the 622?


Yes. They are working fine.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

_"He also said that, technically, we should be able to see at least TWO WEEKS of programming. The most I get is 8 days."_
Technically speaking he is not correct, actually not a reliable source of such info. 
EEPG service spooling 7..9 days of programming.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Your comment confuses me. When you Create or Add or Remove channels to a custom list, *all* channels *are* shown. You just click on the channels you wish to have displayed in your custom list. It takes just a couple of minutes to create and less time to edit it in the future.


You are right Salti. It's just a list of all the channels and you pick what you want. I checked my list and it looks like there are about 763 entries in the list (109 pages). With no Select All button, just to hide a few channels that would be a lot of selecting. You would not have to select near 763, but you have to wade through 109 pages to see what you want to select. I could do it someday, if I really needed to.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

puckwithahalo said:


> Customized favorite list won't work for your purposes? I'm just curious now


The reason is because I want a global why to hide channels across my favorite lists that is not tied to locking all channels. There are channels I want hidden and locked (Adult programming comes to mind) and there are channels I want hidden because I have no need for them.

Sure a customized list would work, but like a customized list does not solve the problem of removing them from All HD, All Sub etc that a hide feature would.

It is a usability feature that I think has value.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Ron Barry said:


> The reason is because I want a global why to hide channels across my favorite lists that is not tied to locking all channels. There are channels I want hidden and locked (Adult programming comes to mind) and there are channels I want hidden because I have no need for them.
> 
> Sure a customized list would work, but like a customized list does not solve the problem of removing them from All HD, All Sub etc that a hide feature would.
> 
> It is a usability feature that I think has value.


Ron good point on the all HD list, just about every channel on that list will be listed 2 times one with 3 digit number and same with 4. I do not want any 4 digit numbers, or channels I never watch. Would be nice if we could just hide any channel we do not want on any list or show up when looking for a program title.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

> He did say that there are 15,000,000 Dish customers who all
> access the same Hard Drive for their programming and that that
> sometimes bogs down the system.....


:sure: The weather is so nice today I left my galoshes at home.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> :sure: The weather is so nice today I left my galoshes at home.


I was hoping if I ignored it I could pretend he didn't say that.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

P Smith said:


> _"He also said that, technically, we should be able to see at least TWO WEEKS of programming. The most I get is 8 days."_
> Technically speaking he is not correct, actually not a reliable source of such info.
> EEPG service spooling 7..9 days of programming.


Maybe he used to install DirecTv. Their DVRs can get up to 14 days (or at least they used to ).


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## kstavert (Apr 30, 2009)

We've been with Dish since the summer of 1996.
At first, we'd get at least two weeks of schedule.

It's only been in the past 6 years or so that the
schedule only goes to 7 or 8 days max.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

kstavert said:


> We've been with Dish since the summer of 1996.
> At first, we'd get at least two weeks of schedule.
> 
> It's only been in the past 6 years or so that the
> schedule only goes to 7 or 8 days max.


I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's ever been two weeks worth of guide data.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I have been installing Dish and DirecTv since 2000 and there has never been a guide longer than 9 days.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

9 days for me as well, for the last 3 years.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

I never had one but did't the 7100/7200 have a longer than 9 day guide?


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I never had a DishPlayer either, but do recall posts about its lack of the 14 day guide present on DirecTiVo's. This lists a 7 day, but I never wanted anything to do with them. I was amazed people had that many powers of two memorized. 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=513&p=2380


> Last night it received the 7-day guide and the 5709 software update.


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