# Voom Discussions (Merged - All Voom Discussion Here)



## wreck

On 9486 they have the new channels' logos along with a ticker stating that 'some channels that were not popular with our customers have been removed.' What's gone?


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## dahenny

Check your guides. E* has removed all but 5 of the Vooms. Monsters, Rush, Equator, Kung Fu, and Rave.


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## DodgerKing

dahenny said:


> Check your guides. E* has removed all but 5 of the Vooms. Monsters, Rush, Equator, Kung Fu, and Rave.


From Dish's website:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/hdupdate/

DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We are excited to announce the addition of over 22 new high definition channels which will provide our customers with top rated programming. *As of result of these additions, we removed some channels that are less popular with our customers. These channels are not available with any other satellite provider. *Watch for even more high definition channels over the upcoming weeks as DISH Network grows to over 100 of the best national HD channels by end of year.

Looks like the net gain will not be as much as many thought? Also appears they too are having some bandwidth issues?


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## GrumpyBear

I will miss FilmF, but as for Family(UFO the only show I watch), Animation, and Game Channel, we got much better channels in return for them. Family was good for teaching the kids about special effects history, between THUNDERBIRDS and UFO. See kids, see what we had to put up with.


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## GrumpyBear

Lost a few VOOM channels, to make room for others. I will miss Film, but none of the others, considering what we got in return.


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## allargon

Grrr.... I could get non-Voom channels w/ DirectTV. I am mad as hell about the loss of Ultra. They will hear from me tomorrow.


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## bjf2007

So it appears one of the first channels deleted on DISH is WorldSport HD.

So no more Spanish Soccer La Liga in HD and they couldn't wait for another week 
or two until the season was over.

Thanks DISH!!!!!! 

I may be going back to DTV since DISH doesn't have or care about MLB fans.

bjf


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## Schizm

I guess my wife and I are in the minority. Channels we watch have been replaced with channels we do not. 

EDIT:


allargon said:


> Grrr.... I could get non-Voom channels w/ DirectTV. I am mad as hell about the loss of Ultra. They will hear from me tomorrow.


yep, I just sent them an email and a phone call might be in order as well. I doubt anything will come of it though.


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## GrumpyBear

Schizm said:


> I guess my wife and I are in the minority. Channels we watch have been replaced with channels we do not.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> yep, I just sent them an email and a phone call might be in order as well. I doubt anything will come of it though.


Not everybody will be happy, and wait and see if there are channels on that you may or may not watch. I would have preferred they kept FilmFest myself over some of the others, but money losers will be cut for channels that can help the bottom line.


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## Stewart Vernon

Guess I was right to wonder why their Web site had already removed icons (I posted in the old complaint thread about it)...

Double-shame on Dish here... One shame for removing these channels without need. They already added today's new batch without removing these so it wasn't a "trade"... if we don't get 10 more HD channels SOON to replace these Vooms then we will have lost them for absolutely no reason.

The second shame is for removing them without any notice. Midnight hit, and poof... no mention in the press release nor the Tech Chat or even the Web site until it happened.

We know there are another 5 or so uplinked channels that have not been turned on... rumor mills have speculated on what they are... and now they should have room for 10 more. No reason to remove these unless they have 10 more potential channels to uplink for testing this week.

I suppose it could be a strongarm tactic against Voom... but most likely it will just ensure, unfortunately, the death of Voom.

A side-effect here too... the $10 difference in price between Essentials and Ultimates really doesn't make sense with 10 fewer channels in Ultimate now. That Ultimate price really needs to drop down to $15 without these Vooms in the mix... again, unless they add 10 more channels very quickly.

Also ironic when today we got MAX West in HD, which is a temporal duplicate of MAX East. I know I know, west coasters want their channel in prime time... but I'm on the east coast and I'd vote to keep MAX West and drop MAX East for a new unique channel rather than have two channels with 100% identical content 3 hours apart. Meanwhile SHO West is rumored to be in that "testing" group that started last week... so we could be seeing another similar duplicate... meanwhile losing 10 24/7 HD channels that while repetitive did have HD content not available anywhere else.

I won't defend the dropping of Animania as much since I personally viewed that one as obsolete once we got Toon Disney and Cartoon Network HD today... shame on Rainbow Media for not spending more money to make their channels better!

But no warning... and taking away 10 channels without giving anything in their place. That seems to be a can of worms that is even more surprising given Dish being at a summit this week where lots of questions are bound to be asked.


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## GrumpyBear

I may be jumping on gun here, one reason for dropping them is so they can add other channels. I do agree with the Shame on them for NO WARNING, most of the channels I didn't watch, don't begrudge those that did watch them though, for Complaining LOUDLY about it. I lose ULTRA and Gain Spike, I for one will be a very happy camper. There are other channels that can be and hopefully will be add down the road soon.
Granted all this revolving around even more channels is wishful thinking, it could just boil down, the cost That Rainbow wanted for those, so it was all about Money. We may never know.


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## calgary2800

I was one of the few that did enjoy Gallery, Ultra, Treasure HD. It was a great change of pace from the usual action and junk on some of these popular national channels. I stayed with Dish instead of jumping to Direct because of those 3 channels. Direct was by far cheaper for me and yet I stayed and now this? No notice at all. Robbed I tell ya.


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## grog

I am a big VOOM fan as well.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

FilmFest: ( I watched this station on a regular basis )
GallaryHD: ( Good shows, nice change of pace, relaxing! .. gone! ).
VoomHD Movies: ( Did'nt Dish just add this one.. and now it's gone too! ).
HDNews: ( I watched this station on a regular basis )

I will miss those channels. 

I just hope we don't lose the other VOOM channels.


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## saiyan

OMG. GamePlay HD is gone!

I know GamePlay HD has a lot of repeat programming but it is the best channel dedicated to video/PC gaming.
(Forget about G4. They have too few video games related shows).

I am going to miss CinemAddicts and Raw Play.


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## phrelin

Verrry interesting. As of 11:30 pm PDT down to Monster, KungFu, Rush, Equator, and Rave. According to the web site we Ultimate subscriber for our extra $10 now have those five and UniversalHD, HDNetMovies, Smithsonian, MGMHD, Fishing, NHL, and NBA.


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## GrumpyBear

grog said:


> I am a big VOOM fan as well.
> 
> http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm
> 
> FilmFest: ( I watched this station on a regular basis )
> GallaryHD: ( Good shows, nice change of pace, relaxing! .. gone! ).
> VoomHD Movies: ( Did'nt Dish just add this one.. and now it's gone too! ).
> HDNews: ( I watched this station on a regular basis )
> 
> I will miss those channels.
> 
> I just hope we don't lose the other VOOM channels.


I can tell you one thing, give me back FlimFest, and they can keep the Fishing Network. I mean come on, what deal did they have to make, that forced them to bring us that Channel. I will miss FilmFest


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## himini

Does anyone have a full list of the dropped channels? Just curious.

I for one am very sad to have lost Voom channels, particularly "Gallery HD."


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## peak_reception

GrumpyBear said:


> Lost a few VOOM channels, to make room for others. I will miss Film, but none of the others, considering what we got in return.


 I am happy with Bravo, CNN, CNBC, Smithsonian, and Travel.

But please give me back *any* of the deleted VOOM channels in exhange for the World Fishing Network [aka the WTF? channel]

(plus the two CInemax and two RSNs add zero value for me).

Charlie giveth and Charlie taketh away.


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## inkahauts

HDMe said:


> Guess I was right to wonder why their Web site had already removed icons (I posted in the old complaint thread about it)...
> 
> Double-shame on Dish here... One shame for removing these channels without need. They already added today's new batch without removing these so it wasn't a "trade"... if we don't get 10 more HD channels SOON to replace these Vooms then we will have lost them for absolutely no reason.
> 
> The second shame is for removing them without any notice. Midnight hit, and poof... no mention in the press release nor the Tech Chat or even the Web site until it happened.
> 
> We know there are another 5 or so uplinked channels that have not been turned on... rumor mills have speculated on what they are... and now they should have room for 10 more. No reason to remove these unless they have 10 more potential channels to uplink for testing this week.
> 
> I suppose it could be a strongarm tactic against Voom... but most likely it will just ensure, unfortunately, the death of Voom.
> 
> A side-effect here too... the $10 difference in price between Essentials and Ultimates really doesn't make sense with 10 fewer channels in Ultimate now. That Ultimate price really needs to drop down to $15 without these Vooms in the mix... again, unless they add 10 more channels very quickly.
> 
> Also ironic when today we got MAX West in HD, which is a temporal duplicate of MAX East. I know I know, west coasters want their channel in prime time... but I'm on the east coast and I'd vote to keep MAX West and drop MAX East for a new unique channel rather than have two channels with 100% identical content 3 hours apart. Meanwhile SHO West is rumored to be in that "testing" group that started last week... so we could be seeing another similar duplicate... meanwhile losing 10 24/7 HD channels that while repetitive did have HD content not available anywhere else.
> 
> I won't defend the dropping of Animania as much since I personally viewed that one as obsolete once we got Toon Disney and Cartoon Network HD today... shame on Rainbow Media for not spending more money to make their channels better!
> 
> But no warning... and taking away 10 channels without giving anything in their place. That seems to be a can of worms that is even more surprising given Dish being at a summit this week where lots of questions are bound to be asked.


What about these channels takes weeks of testing? I would understand if they turned off channels today and turned on new ones tomorrow, but why would they take weeks to test a channel before they launch it?


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## TNGTony

himini said:


> Does anyone have a full list of the dropped channels? Just curious.
> 
> I for one am very sad to have lost Voom channels, particularly "Gallery HD."


From www.dishlist.net

Gallery 9472 (Currently showing a slate touting the 22 new channels with a crawl saying they removed the less popular channels because of this (THAT IS A LIE. The channels were on different transponders. They removed them to save a freaking nickel off of OUR subscriptions! --can you tell I am very upset over this?)) 
Treasure 9473 
Aniamania 9474 
Voom Movies 9475 
World Sport 9477 
ULTRA 9478 
Film Fest 9480 - The only place to watch great movies from all over the world, GONE. I'll give back 21 of the 22 new channels for this one back! 
HD News Channel 9482 - the only REAL news channel on TV (not a political analyst or talk show in sight!). Remember CNN HN when they were headline news, that is what was removed here. Gee. Thanks again, Dish! 
Game Play 9485 
Family Room 9486


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## Stewart Vernon

inkahauts said:


> What about these channels takes weeks of testing? I would understand if they turned off channels today and turned on new ones tomorrow, but why would they take weeks to test a channel before they launch it?


Could be any number of things to test. They have to test their feed from the network source, then their uplink to the satellite, then reception from the satellite on whatever transponder they stick it. They then have to tweak the compression to balance bandwidth vs too much distorted signal... and then there are those pesky lip-synch problems that seem to be more pervasive with HD transmissions.

Could be another half dozen or more things to test too... and the more channels they are messing with, the more they have to divide and conquer to get the job done.

I think months are a little extreme, but a week or two could be reasonable testing time depending upon if they encounter any problems.

Like how sometimes I piece together a new PC and it all works the first time! And then I only have to spend the normal 2 hours installing and updating Windows.... but then other times some of my components don't like each other, and Windows doesn't have drivers... and I spend several sleepless nights pulling out my hair and wishing I could throw the whole thing out the window!


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## Stewart Vernon

On the Voom front...

I like Voom, but have felt it was bloated ever since growing to 15 channels. I'm not sure how to crunch all the numbers, but it always seemed to me like they could have kept all their same content, with less repetition, re-bundled on perhaps 7-10 channels.

I think 5 is not enough to showcase everything they had to offer even with their lack of efforts to expand content.

MonstersHD can be good as it is... but I'd like to see them get more movies more often than they do.

Equator can also stand on its own... but again I'd like to see more money invested for new stuff more often.

I'm not a Kung-Fu fan, so I would have liked to see this channel morph into an action movie channel with all genres, not just Kung-Fu.

I could see combining Rush and WorldSport into one channel as long as any coverage of live events was not missed as a result. Both probably had a similar audience I suspect.

Gallery, Treasure, Ultra, and Rave could all have been combined into an Arts & Entertainment HD channel and cover all those subjects nicely I think.

The above descriptions would then be my "vision" of 5 Voom channels...

Since Rainbow owns AMC, I could see dropping Voom Movies and FilmFest and merge all that content into their AMC library and then they could just launch AMC HD and be done with that.

Similarly, I could see launching IFC in HD and rolling their existing content from the old World Cinema channel into that.

Unfortunately, Animania and HDNews never really lived up to expectations and with the new cartoon and news in HD launches... these really are obsolete. If they didn't spend money before, there's no reason to spend it here now. Let these 2 die peacefully.

Family Room is left as the only one I don't know what to do with... We have ABCFamily now in HD... but that isn't as family-oriented as it sounds... so if the bandwidth is there, maybe Family Room could stay with some more investment.

Worst case, in my opinion, then would be... 6 re-purposed Voom suite channels. That would free up space for 9 new channels without losing any content IF they also launched IFC and AMC in HD and used existing Voom HD content to help stock those channels. So that would be 8 "new" channels, and still 7 vacancies to be filled with other things.


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## braven

So the E* crowd can expect to see a price reduction, right?


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## inkahauts

braven said:


> So the E* crowd can expect to see a price reduction, right?


:rotfl:


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## reds1963

i would have thought E* folks could have seen this coming from a far , with the lawsuit and all between them and boom ...yes it sucks , but it is just a power play ...or big business fighting , and its always the consumer that suffers in the long run ...


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## SMosher

Bullcrap. I loved my Voom stuff. Equator was my evening escape.

Was there a reason? I dont recall seeing one.


EDIT: read it wrong, I still have my escape. Does suck about the others FILMF, and Family Room was great. I miss Flipper already.


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## Hound

If the ten channels are gone forever, its a big mistake by E*. In the following order, are the channels that I will miss. 

1. Gallery
2. Treasure
3. Filmfest
4. VMOV

Just watched the Fog last week on VMOV.

E* made a mistake two years ago, when it negotiated Voom on the lowest HD tier and did not follow through on HD RSNs and locals in many markets. However, Voom is still very valuable to E* as niche programing. Hopefully, E* Will work something out with Cablevision. The fact that 5 channels were kept on,
indicates that some type of deal will be worked out.
Cablevision needs E* and E* needs the niche HD programming. 

Of all the new HD launched last night, I would still rather have Gallery, Treasure, Filmfest and VMOV.

Since I added D* in January, I only use D* for specific sporting events. or 
recording HD locals.
When I want to surf, I always went to Voom. Voom is the only reason that I have not canceled E*. Equator is my favorite,
but I did not watch the other four channels that are still on.

E* should look out for their subs who can't get this programming elsewhere and may be tempted to jump ship.


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## BillJ

I will miss 9473 - don't recall the name but I watched it quite a bit. Also surprised to see the HD News channel dropped. 

I wonder if some Voom channels might come back if the lawsuit is settled? Charlie has dropped channels before as a negotiating tactic.


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## dahenny

Voom LOST the injunction against E*.

It would not surprize me to see Voom disappear when the next set of channels are launched.


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## Hound

Many of the new channels have ads aand are not full time HD. The Voom channels were better.


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## Deke Rivers

Damn! I hope all the Voom bashers are happy.


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## garys

Anyone who would have checked up on the listing would have know ahead of time there was a lot of non-HD programs on these channels. Some of them were added before their HD launch date, so no big surprise for me, but the loss of those Vooms came as a bigger surprise.


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## fredinva

I guess I can now delete my DVR Timers of Concrete Canvas!!!
Julian Beever was fantastic.


But remember, the lawsuit against Voom was due to 'NO NEW CONTENT'.
Voom failed to add new shows!!!!

fred


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## garys

If Voom takes the programs that were on the dropped channels and added them to the current ones and keep them without repeating them 3 or 4 times per day, these five channels could certainly be worth watching.


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## neomaine

Only one I"m going to miss is the Game channel. Well, really my kids loved to watch this show. They played alot of the games they featured on there. Ok, it was good escape channel for me too.

Will it be sorely missed? No. Will it be missed? Yes...


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## sangu72

I feel your pain. Although since they had those contract troubles with Mediapro they were not able to show the best games of the Spanish League. 
I wonder if they are going to put those games on Rush as they used to do in the past. I guess no more european soccer on HD until Fox Soccer or Gol TV launch their HD channels (rumor is Fox will be launching its HD channel for next season).


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## clapple

World Sport was about the only Voom, that I watched. I was looking forward to CFL football, starting next month. It held me over until the NFL started. It was better than no football at all.

I would think soccer fans would really be POed.


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## moman19

I cannot believe people are griping. The new channel mix is far superior to what we had 2 days ago with more to come. C'mon.......do we really need HDNEWS (for example) now that we have real news services in HD with more to surely come?

Mourning the loss of ULTRA? Give me a break!


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## GrumpyBear

sangu72 said:


> I feel your pain. Although since they had those contract troubles with Mediapro they were not able to show the best games of the Spanish League.
> I wonder if they are going to put those games on Rush as they used to do in the past. I guess no more european soccer on HD until Fox Soccer or Gol TV launch their HD channels (rumor is Fox will be launching its HD channel for next season).


Lets hope for SKY-HD, instead of Fox Soccer. Sky offers all the Soccer and then some. We would even get all the Setanta sports in HD with Sky. Much better choice.
At least for now though, UEFA is on Espn2 for tell the end. Granted thats not much.


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## GrumpyBear

I think there would be less complaining, if there had been some Warning. Granted there is no way to keep everybody happy. Where I did enjoy FilmFest, and will be the only channel I will miss, the others were Entertaining sometimes. I think some of the complaints, will calm down after they start watching the new channels, right now its all about the shock and awe of them going after being online after the new ones were up and running, and no real warning. Lawsuit, website updates, gave a hint that something was up though.


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## TulsaOK

DodgerKing said:


> From Dish's website:
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/hdupdate/
> 
> DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We are excited to announce the addition of over 22 new high definition channels which will provide our customers with top rated programming. *As of result of these additions, we removed some channels that are less popular with our customers. These channels are not available with any other satellite provider. *Watch for even more high definition channels over the upcoming weeks as DISH Network grows to over 100 of the best national HD channels by end of year.
> 
> Looks like the net gain will not be as much as many thought? Also appears they too are having some bandwidth issues?


*As of result* of these additions... Geez, does anyone educated beyond the 5th grade actually read this stuff before it goes out?


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## GrumpyBear

peak_reception said:


> I am happy with Bravo, CNN, CNBC, Smithsonian, and Travel.
> 
> But please give me back *any* of the deleted VOOM channels in exhange for the World Fishing Network [aka the WTF? channel]
> 
> (plus the two CInemax and two RSNs add zero value for me).
> 
> Charlie giveth and Charlie taketh away.


I will trade World Fishing for FilmFest. WFN there had to be some agreement, if you want channel X, you must include this channel. Who owns WFN? The other VOOM channels, I am waiting to see what channels replace them in the upcoming weeks, and see what VOOM Channels are consolidated, there was lots of room for that.


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## dbconsultant

We'll miss gallery (Concrete Canvas was fascinating!), treasurehd, filmf and worldsports (no place else broadcasts sailing and equestrian events). Maybe not everyone appreciated Voom channels but we did! Yeah, maybe a good quantities of the shows weren't new but for people just starting to get the hd channels, they were new to us! We signed up for HD service in 2007 so even shows done in 2004 were new to us!

So in my opinion, they didn't really 'add' channels as much as they 'replaced' others. I would have thought they could have added them without taking these away. 

I do agree with HDme that some of the Voom channels could have been consolidated. Then we could get the best of all the channels instead of losing them.


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## dbconsultant

WorldSport was also the only one that broadcast the equestrian events and sailing. Guess we won't be seeing any of these things anymore either because mainstream (espn) sports channels don't carry them.:nono2:


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## dbconsultant

garys said:


> Anyone who would have checked up on the listing would have know ahead of time there was a lot of non-HD programs on these channels. Some of them were added before their HD launch date, so no big surprise for me, but the loss of those Vooms came as a bigger surprise.


And an unpleasant surprise it was - we liked the Voom channels - something different that made Dish unique.:nono:


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## dbconsultant

peak_reception said:


> I am happy with Bravo, CNN, CNBC, Smithsonian, and Travel.
> 
> But please give me back *any* of the deleted VOOM channels in exhange for the World Fishing Network [aka the WTF? channel]
> 
> (plus the two CInemax and two RSNs add zero value for me).
> 
> Charlie giveth and Charlie taketh away.


Which meanth that Charlie dothn't really add so much as replace.

I'd be perfectly happy with people being able to watch fishing, cinemax and rsn's (even though I don't) but really doubt that in order to do that, Dish had to take away the channels that I watch (even though others don't). Really disappointed in Dish for eliminating channels that made them unique from Direct and cable.:nono2:


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## Jason Nipp

Too repetitive. I feel let down by Voom. They promised to invest in new content, and frankly we were not getting any. I agree the PQ was great... But there's only so many times you can watch Glastonbury 2004 or Jewel before you stop watching the channel. It was great to be able to show off PQ to your friends, but I have not seen much compelling content lately.

In fact if they didn't repackage Voom into other programming packages, I am sure the subscriber base to those channels would have dwindled long ago.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.


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## jal

Its sort of funny to claim you are adding 20 channels, then a few hours later take away 10. Misleads people.


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## wreck

I would like to see them do a "sharing" channel (like VS. and Golf). They could combine 3 channels with the same VOOM content. Just eliminate the "repeats".


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## salem66

:hurah: Noooooo!!Tell me this is not true. I have to have my weekly fix of Capt Fizz and Capt. Gary on Treasure Divers on Treasure HD. I have to agree with the repetiveness and lack of new content but the 24/7 true HD was eye candy. I was browsing the new channels last night...the WFN errr...WTF channel is about as useful and RFDTV and the Smoky Mountain Knife Show channel. Is there any HD on this channel.


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## GrumpyBear

Voom, really has nobody to blame but themselves on this one. Way to many repeats, and more importantly very little NEW content. Most of the channels that were dropped, and even a few of the ones they kept, you would see the exact same show every every 6 months in a weekly block. I have always found HDNET channels to be more worthy. What better way to wake up the Voom Network guys than dropping channels.


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## Lincoln6Echo

bjf2007 said:


> So it appears one of the first channels deleted on DISH is WorldSport HD.
> 
> So no more Spanish Soccer La Liga in HD and they couldn't wait for another week
> or two until the season was over.
> 
> Thanks DISH!!!!!!
> 
> I may be going back to DTV since DISH doesn't have or care about MLB fans.
> 
> bjf


Well ****!!! World Sport was the one of the only VOOM channels I watched. Mainly for CFL Football and Spanish Soccer. Never really did get into the Pan American Games.

Well ****, I see they dropped HDNews as well. What the hell?


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## FTA Michael

Speaking personally, I think that there were a lot of repeats on a lot of the Voom channels, and I will miss them anyway. They were full, glorious HD all the time, unlike the current state of many of the newly added channels.

I hope that this is just another programming fee arm-wrestling match, and that we'll get those channels turned on again before the CFL season starts.


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## GrumpyBear

FTA Michael said:


> Speaking personally, I think that there were a lot of repeats on a lot of the Voom channels, and I will miss them anyway. They were full, glorious HD all the time, unlike the current state of many of the newly added channels.
> 
> I hope that this is just another programming fee arm-wrestling match, and that we'll get those channels turned on again before the CFL season starts.


I think you are right about the Arm-wrestling, one of the reason some of the channel numbers haven't disappeared while some have. The next month should be interesting. Voom is over the barrel right now, time to put up or shut down.


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## Henry

I don't miss any of them. I said so a year ago.


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## FitzAusTex

The 10 removed Voom channels are supposedly still up there on 61.5 and 129, but removed from the tables. Perhaps the removal is a maneuver from Charlie to Rainbow. Currently, they could be turned back on at any time...ala Lifetime, Court TV...


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## ebaltz

They were nice to have, but in all honesty I am not sure I ever watched anything on any of those Voom channels. The ones we are left with, I have actually watched stuff on those channels. If it frees up bandwidth for better channels I am all for it. If it wasn't for that, then I think that is kind of a rip off.

If I didn't have my 501 connected to a non-HD tv upstairs I would go to the all HD package in a second. I am almost tempted to get Cinemax now because there are 3 HD channels of that now.


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## DJ Lon

I wrote a letter to good ol' Charlie this morning. We'll have to see what he has to say for himself. :flaiming 

If I find out VOOM is really gone, I think I'm going to drop to HD Essentials and take the $10 difference to upgrade my DVR Advantage to AT250. I know I'll miss HDNet Movies but I'll be getting more programming for my $10.


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## howie14

clapple said:


> World Sport was about the only Voom, that I watched. I was looking forward to CFL football, starting next month. It held me over until the NFL started. It was better than no football at all.
> 
> I would think soccer fans would really be POed.


That's what I usually watched on the departed VOOMs as well.


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## Mikey

FitzAusTex said:


> The 10 removed Voom channels are supposedly still up there on 61.5 and 129, but removed from the tables. Perhaps the removal is a maneuver from Charlie to Rainbow. Currently, they could be turned back on at any time...ala Lifetime, Court TV...


Charlie said on today's Dish Network earnings call that the rest of the VOOM channels are going away too.


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## GrumpyBear

Mikey said:


> Charlie said on today's Dish Network earnings call that the rest of the VOOM channels are going away too.


Any word on what channels maybe coming down the road?!?!?!


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## Mikey

GrumpyBear said:


> Any word on what channels maybe coming down the road?!?!?!


I don't see anything on the horizon with the high quality of the VOOM channels. Look for Comedy Central HD and/or WGN-HD, and maybe more HD RSN's.


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## Stewart Vernon

I realize after the fact that in my "consolidation post" I forgot to include GamePlay. That's another channel I didn't know what to do with, as it doesn't combine well with the other channels I was combining.

Still, seems like they could do all the content with much less than 15 channels and be a win-win for everyone... especially if they would spend more money on acquiring new content.

The only channels I really can't manage any kind of defense of are still Animania and HDNews. Some decent stuff on there, but with other HD channels now up having better content... these channels just do not compare favorably at all vs the competition.

I always felt Rainbow particularly missed the boat in these two channels because so much potential was there and they had such a huge lead-time over the other cartoon and new channels in HD that they could have become a de-facto standard if they had invested in these properties.


----------



## hncjc

I never watched the Voom channels and am excited that Dish is additing more of the channels I do watch in HD. GOOD MOVE.


----------



## Oblong Desoto

I know we aren't supposed to start any more threads on this subject, but a poll seemed like a good idea. Charlie believes that the majority of customers are not interested in the VOOM HD channels. I personally fall into that category. Is he right about you?


----------



## Kman68

I am going to miss FilmFest. It contained enough Italian Cinema for my goulish desires. Not just Spaghetti Westerns, but Italian Horror and Suspense. If you have never seen a Dario Argento flick, you do not know what you are missing. If anyone is interested in exploring a new genre, check IFC for "Johnny Stecchio." (I probably misspelled it)

At least they kept Kung Fu. Asian cinematography is so good. Sure, it's nice to see protruding bones and torn out tounges, but if you look past the brutality of the scene you will notice how it is centered and what background colors were chosen. "Iron Monkey" revolves around seeing the same thing from a different point of view. The first point of view is shot with a red lens cover. The second with blue. It is not until the very end that the two perspectives converge to end in the same place. Genius.


----------



## Taco Lover

I was thinking about starting a poll of some sort to ask this same thing.

For me, I'm not going to miss the VOOM channels that were deleted, I hardly ever watched those particular ones. I flipped on HDNews every now and then, but that's about it. I do watch the ones that were left more often, though.


----------



## DJ Lon

Oblong Desoto said:


> Is he right about you?


Nope.

I downgraded to HD Essentials and upgraded my DishDVR Advantage to AT250 today. I cannot see the value in spending $10 a month on World Fishing Network. 

However, I do admit I will miss HDNet Movies.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Could you add a 5th choice?
More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


----------



## dclaryjr

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


That would be my choice!


----------



## Taco Lover

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


I think the point is that you won't miss them enough to cancel service.


----------



## booger

I would have been a lot more upset if MonstersHD had been canned. IMO Chiller is no competition.


----------



## kmcnamara

The remaining Voom channels are on their way out too.

My option would be "I already moved to HDessentials a couple of months ago so it won't affect me at all".


----------



## davethestalker

saiyan said:


> OMG. GamePlay HD is gone!
> 
> I know GamePlay HD has a lot of repeat programming but it is the best channel dedicated to video/PC gaming.
> (Forget about G4. They have too few video games related shows).
> 
> I am going to miss CinemAddicts and Raw Play.


Yeah, I'm pretty pissed off about this too. But, you know, it's their own frickin' fault. They have not had any "new" game chatter in a LONG time. It seems like their programming was 6 months behind a game's launch. I even sent an email to Gamespot a long time ago. Naturally, I did not get a response. They had a gold mine at their finger tips, with the trash on G4 and all, but they blew it.

BTW...."World Fishing Network" is an absolute waste of space. I have yet to see any High Definition on that channel. If and when I want to see any fishing shows, I'll look for it on ESPN. Bill Dance and Babe Winkleman are classics! Any sort of major fishing events will not be on WFN, they (Bass Masters Classic) will be on a real channel.


----------



## phrelin

Ok, I'm trying to think tolerant and logical here. Let's assume that in fact Dish did not add more than 12 HD national channels and they know it and are spinning it. They also know that overall the VOOM channels were of limited interest. So let's take a look at the net target audience changes.


> Hey, look we're trading up?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Animania
> Family Room_
> 
> Add:
> _ABC Family
> Disney East
> Toon Disney
> Cartoon_





> Hey, you won't miss it because of this equal trade?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Voom Movies
> Film Fest_
> 
> *Add:*
> _MGM
> Hallmark Movie Channel_





> Quit complaining, you already have CNN so we're expanding options?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _HD News_
> 
> *Add:*
> _CNBC
> ESPN News_





> Screw you niche changes?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _World Sport_
> 
> *Add:*
> _World Fishing
> Tennis_
> 
> AND
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Gallery
> Treasure
> Ultra_
> 
> *Add:*
> _Smithsonian?_
> 
> AND
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Game Play_
> 
> *Add:*
> _nothing_


Beyond this there are winners and losers because of packages. In my case even though I have Ultimate, because I don't subscribe to the Top 250, just the Top 200, I don't get Hallmark Movie Channel, so I lost two VOOM movie channels but only gained MGM HD.


----------



## phrelin

For me its the mainstream channels, but....

Ok, I'm trying to think tolerant and logical here. Let's assume that in fact Dish did not add more than 12 HD national channels and they know it and are spinning it. They also know that overall the VOOM channels were of limited interest. So let's take a look at the net target audience changes.


> Hey, look we're trading up?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Animania
> Family Room_
> 
> Add:
> _ABC Family
> Disney East
> Toon Disney
> Cartoon_





> Hey, you won't miss it because of this equal trade?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Voom Movies
> Film Fest_
> 
> *Add:*
> _MGM
> Hallmark Movie Channel_





> Quit complaining, you already have CNN so we're expanding options?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _HD News_
> 
> *Add:*
> _CNBC
> ESPN News_





> Screw you niche changes?
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _World Sport_
> 
> *Add:*
> _World Fishing
> Tennis_
> 
> AND
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Gallery
> Treasure
> Ultra_
> 
> *Add:*
> _Smithsonian?_
> 
> AND
> 
> *Eliminate:*
> _Game Play_
> 
> *Add:*
> _nothing_


Beyond this there are winners and losers because of packages. In my case even though I have Ultimate, because I don't subscribe to the Top 250, just the Top 200, I don't get Hallmark Movie Channel, so I lost two VOOM movie channels but only gained MGM HD.


----------



## TNGTony

Have you seen Halmmark movie channel? Literally 5 minutes of commercials for every 3 minutes of movie! NO THANKS!

See ya
Tony


----------



## normang

Don't really miss Voom.

if there was a good way to actually determine how many people actually watched these channels, Dish may have made a good move. Sure someone is "always" going to miss something, however a year from now, this won't even be a second thought.. 

TV shows always come and go, every season a TV show that someone watches or loved disappears. Some come back briefly, if enough people make it known, but usually its short-lived, because wide support was never really there.


----------



## TBoneit

With all of the upcoming HD Channels I'm sure these will be replaced with channels that are more mainstream than niche.

Much of the Voom channels in my opinion were niche channels. Niche channels are available when the mainstream channels are already on the system. Mainstream HD will bring more subs than niche programming. 

Foreign language is niche programming. Look at what it costs per channel. Would you pay those types of rates for Voom?


----------



## bobukcat

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


+1


----------



## inkahauts

hncjc said:


> I never watched the Voom channels and am excited that Dish is additing more of the channels I do watch in HD. GOOD MOVE.


The more HD the better... And unless they replace those 10 Voom channels in the next couple days, Dish just screwed their customers. The key is that they had the 22 channels up and running before they shut off the 10 voom channels, so there was NO NEED for them to turn them off. This smells of the lawsuit, and has nothing to do with swapping some voom channels for other more mainstream channels....


----------



## levibluewa

if he has extra HD space after deleting the VOOM channels he could offer the "Superstation Package" in HD. That move would be another differentiation from Directv.

I know at least some of these channels are now offered in HD locally (KTLA,WPIX), so turning them CONUS he might be able to pick up a few new subscribers that way. 

Also, I think he has WGNHD on the list from what I've read elsewhere.


----------



## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> Verrry interesting. As of 11:30 pm PDT down to Monster, KungFu, Rush, Equator, and Rave. According to the web site we Ultimate subscriber for our extra $10 now have those five and UniversalHD, HDNetMovies, Smithsonian, MGMHD, Fishing, NHL, and NBA.


I was going to dump Ultimate until I got to this post. I want to see MGMHD. My attendant likes EquatorHD, but I know she'll miss UltraHD.


----------



## normang

inkahauts said:


> The more HD the better... And unless they replace those 10 Voom channels in the next couple days, Dish just screwed their customers. The key is that they had the 22 channels up and running before they shut off the 10 voom channels, so there was NO NEED for them to turn them off. This smells of the lawsuit, and has nothing to do with swapping some voom channels for other more mainstream channels....


Your assuming that a large portion of Dish's user base even cares about Voom, we don't know that, and anecdotal evidence from posting in forums does not make the case that they were even remotely popular. And lawsuits rarely accomplish anything other then to enrich lawyers, and why should you care, your sig says Direct all over it....


----------



## Oblong Desoto

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.





bobukcat said:


> +1


Polls cannot be edited, but I see where you are coming from.


----------



## jimborst

Now I may miss a few Voom shows but I think Dish seen the future and the fact that since they had no new programming, they are probably doomed (my guess, we'll see bankruptcy or just a shutdown) very soon. 

When I first got HD I watched Voom Family, UFO, Thunderbirds and Flipper from my past. But in 1 1/2 years the same shows are still on. There were only 23 episodes of UFO to begin with, Thunderbirds had a total of 32 and I think Flipper was on for three seasons. That means that after a month they'd start the same shows over again. After a year and a half it just got old.

I used to watch the Voom news channel but the 12 minute repetition got old, even worse than when Headline news was on a 30 miute cycle. It also seemed that the news was not current, it was NOT the one I would tune to for Breaking News.


----------



## CoolGui

peak_reception said:


> ...But please give me back *any* of the deleted VOOM channels in exhange for the World Fishing Network [aka the WTF? channel]...


hahah... I said the same exact thing.. First of all, do they have *ANY* HD content? Second of all... Fishing... in HD? really? Someone must be playing a joke on us. Isn't this basically equivalent the "basket weaving HD channel" that has been joked about many a time around here?



peak_reception said:


> (plus the two CInemax and two RSNs add zero value for me).


I for one am happy of any of the premium channels the add in HD. I'm paying $50/mo for all of the premiums and I want more HD premium.  But us buyers of those premium channels should be enough to subsidize that, not the general consumer base. At least that is how it should be.


----------



## HDlover

TNGTony said:


> Have you seen Halmmark movie channel? Literally 5 minutes of commercials for every 3 minutes of movie! NO THANKS!
> 
> See ya
> Tony


That's why one has a DVR.  However I want the description to state if a program is in HD.


----------



## Henry

HDlover said:


> ... However I want the description to state if a program is in HD.


Ditto.


----------



## clyde sauls

found this posted about 8 minutes ago. http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6560688.html?desc=topstory. As you can see all the vooms will be gone soon replaced by other channels. Maybe wgnhd and some other channels that have been reported already on the satellites but not up and running. Also wondering if this is a mistake and could open the door for Directv to carry the voom suite or other cable companys. In the article it saids Dish bought their sat. What or if anything has dish done with that Sat?


----------



## Paul Secic

wreck said:


> I would like to see them do a "sharing" channel (like VS. and Golf). They could combine 3 channels with the same VOOM content. Just eliminate the "repeats".


Thatt sort of stuff is up to Rainbow Media/VOOM. No wonder VOOM never had many subs before Charlie bought into them!


----------



## Grandude

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


I agree.


----------



## archer75

Most of the Voom channels suck anyways. I can rarely find anything worth watching on them.


----------



## moman19

I'm going to miss RAVE if it gets pulled. But then again, it's been so long that any new concerts have been added to that channel that I seldom check-in any more.

Replacing the VOOM channels with more popular HD offerings clearly makes sense in light of the fact that there is so much HD content out there now (compared to 2 or 3 years ago). Look how many HD channels D* offers without VOOM. 

However, with that said (and I'm sure this will anger someone)......

I'm not exactly thrilled about having an HD Fishing or Basket Weaving channel added to the list when there are other more interesting (less niche-type) offerings out there like FNC, Headline News, Comedy Central, etc.) It would be nice to offer the national PBS HD feed as well. My local PBS OTA station compresses it to death with three other sub channels. I believe it ends up as 480p.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Rave was really cool for the 1st 6months or so, and then it started to repeat.
Not overly impressed with MHD, though either.


----------



## Lincoln6Echo

Well, now I wish I hadn't deleted the entire series of _New Captain Scarlet_. It was on Animania, and now I'll never be able to record it again. The problem is is that it's not on DVD in R1.


----------



## MarcusInMD

So much for being the "leader" in HD channels.


----------



## Paul Secic

normang said:


> Your assuming that a large portion of Dish's user base even cares about Voom, we don't know that, and anecdotal evidence from posting in forums does not make the case that they were even remotely popular. And lawsuits rarely accomplish anything other then to enrich lawyers, and why should you care, your sig says Direct all over it....


The majority of E's customers have SD and know nothing about VOOM. SD customers arn't going anywhere.


----------



## moman19

GrumpyBear said:


> Rave was really cool for the 1st 6months or so, and then it started to repeat.
> Not overly impressed with MHD, though either.


Agreed. MHD is getting stale too. Thankfully, every concert I want to see I have stored on my EHD. I was thinking about pulling the plug on VOOM anyway.


----------



## GrumpyBear

MarcusInMD said:


> So much for being the "leader" in HD channels.


Who cares about HD channel numbers, its really about HD content. Voom did give Dish more HD content, it was just the same content over and over again.


----------



## MarcusInMD

GrumpyBear said:


> Who cares about HD channel numbers, its really about HD content. Voom did give Dish more HD content, it was just the same content over and over again.


I care about quality over quantity too, problem is the HD channels on dish generally are now bit starved and look like crap on larger displays. Voom channels were the exception some of the time. Flipping through these new channels most appear to be pretty bit starved and just above what I would consider "acceptable" HD on a 32" wide display.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Checkout the Smithsonian Channel, it looks great and has had some interesting shows on today. MGMHD looks good, but haven't been interested in the movies they have shown so far. Travel has been good, and so has CNBC, watched it just because. As for ABCFM, TOON and some of the others I haven't bothered with, just like I did with some of the Voom Channels. Hoping somehow they find away to save FilmFest, not that worried about the rest of them. Have you noticed people only have a few of the Voom Channels they are wanting to fight over, and even then just a few shows. Voom was to worried about numbers, see we have 15, but only content for 3-6 channels. Lets see what happens now that the strong arm tatic is at work.


----------



## emathis

If you're going to take down channels that are all HD, all the time, at least give us some channels with HD content. I don't think that 5 Star Cinemax is even HD (not even 4:3 HD). The text is blurry and picture looks like crap. Too bad the Starz group is owned by D*.


----------



## grog

Loss of Rave will be a big deal to me but I know there is not a thing I can do about it.

I don't live out east so going to Optimum is not an option.


----------



## normang

> originally Posted by normang : your assuming that a large portion of Dish's user base even cares about Voom, we don't know that, and anecdotal evidence from posting in forums does not make the case that they were even remotely popular. And lawsuits rarely accomplish anything other then to enrich lawyers, and why should you care, your sig says Direct all over it....





Paul Secic said:


> The majority of E's customers have SD and know nothing about VOOM. SD customers arn't going anywhere.


Perhaps I should have better qualified that for Dish's HD users. And I still think we don't know whether any significant number of other Dish HD users will even miss Voom channels should they all go away.. I know I won't. While I occasionally found something interesting, it was not often enough to really care one way or another..


----------



## GrumpyBear

grog said:


> Loss of Rave will be a big deal to me but I know there is not a thing I can do about it.
> 
> I don't live out east so going to Optimum is not an option.


Don't take this the wrong way, but what can you watch on Rave this week that wasn't on for all month just 6 months ago.


----------



## daro

Why dish to take off those channels 
Treasure 9473 
Aniamania 9474 
Voom Movies 9475 
World Sport 9477 
ULTRA 9478 
News Channel 9482
Film Fest 9480 
Gallery 9472 
Game Play 9485 
Family Room 9486 

Those channels was the only ones who give them diference from direc tv
what is the trick to play????


----------



## shyguy666

the five voom channels left will be removed eventually.


----------



## Taco Lover

There's plenty of discussion happening in the HD forums.


----------



## lionsrule

Glad To Say Goodbye Voom.....

Don't Let The Door Hit You On The Way Out!!


----------



## starcrossedpimp

booger said:


> I would have been a lot more upset if MonstersHD had been canned. IMO Chiller is no competition.


i agree, thats really the only VOOM channel i watch.i wouldve been a bit upset if that one had been cut


----------



## calgary2800

Lincoln6Echo said:


> Well, now I wish I hadn't deleted the entire series of _New Captain Scarlet_. It was on Animania, and now I'll never be able to record it again. The problem is is that it's not on DVD in R1.


Captain Scarlet was awesome. Even if you dont follow the story, it was terrific eye candy. The PQ was on another planet.

Sometimes I watched voom channels just for the PQ on some of those channels.


----------



## Marriner

GrumpyBear said:


> Rave was really cool for the 1st 6months or so, and then it started to repeat.
> Not overly impressed with MHD, though either.


Therein lies the problem. The programming on Rave and many other Voom channels has become stale. Without content that remains relevent and fresh, these channels were bound to fall by the wayside. I can, however, do without the World Fishing Channel or whatever it is called.


----------



## dclaryjr

Equator will be missed at our abode. Yea, there were a lot of repeats but they threw in something new from time-to-time that we really enjoyed.


----------



## grog

I think that is the key here.

Yes there are repeats, a lot more then a lot would like to see.
But there are a great number of channels in the lineup and I don't watch TV 24/7.
So if one of the Voom channels shows two or three shows in a loop and changes them the next day I am fine with that. I can't watch more than one or two shows per day as it stands.
If I find the same show on the next day I might want to watch it again right then or I might want to watch something else. No big deal.

What makes it work for me is I also seem to find something on and this is especially true of the Voom lineup that I enjoy watching each day.

I do watch a lot of Rave but hey... this is music! There are a great number of Rave concerts I can play over and over again day after day without growing tired of what I am hearing.

On 'With Jools Holland' the other night 'Beirut' a group I never heard before played a song 'Nantes'. I recorded that show and I must have played it 30 times since then. Great show and a lot of songs I really enjoyed!

As I said,, Voom will be missed and in my case... Rave will be missed the most.



dclaryjr said:


> Equator will be missed at our abode. Yea, there were a lot of repeats but they threw in something new from time-to-time that we really enjoyed.


----------



## Richard King

> As I said,, Voom will be missed and in my case... Rave will be missed the most.


A good recap of my position also. I really think that Dish is making a mistake in doing this. Voom was the ONLY thing that made them different than Directv or many cable operations. I think this move makes them less competative with the competition and gives no one a specific reason to consider Dish over that competition.


----------



## wreck

Richard King said:


> A good recap of my position also. I really think that Dish is making a mistake in doing this. Voom was the ONLY thing that made them different than Directv or many cable operations. I think this move makes them less competative with the competition and gives no one a specific reason to consider Dish over that competition.


I agree in that it is never "good" to lose ANY HD channels, but the reality is that bandwidth is scarce and *15* VOOM channels is just not economically feasible. VOOM apparently violated their carriage agreement by failing to come up with the agreed to "new content." Dish really had no choice,but to "call their hand." Maybe they can come up with some compromise in the future - cut down to about 5 channels with the best of VOOM programming. JMO


----------



## grog

Was watching Rave and now!!! 

BOOM!!!!!


O.K.... thinks Dish...

ALL OF VOOM IS GONE!!!
ALL GONE!!!
NO MORE VOOM!!!!!

Guide data is gone as well.

I am sitting here looking at the "Congratulations, You have a Dish 500".


Sucks!   


Guess I should go watch the Fishing channel or maybe Cartoon network HD!!!


Sucks!


----------



## skriefal

Yes, Rave is gone now too. Was there one second and gone the next. Not happy...


----------



## DStroyer

I just downgraded to HD Essentials (and dropped HBO) on Friday. I only ever watched Voom HDNews for 5 minutes here and there, so no big loss for me.


----------



## grog

I am looking into DirecTV right now.

We used to get MLB Extra Innings until Dish stopped offering it.
My wife loves sports!

I did not consider the change but now with Voom gone... why not?


----------



## lionsrule

grog said:


> Was watching Rave and now!!!
> 
> BOOM!!!!!
> 
> O.K.... thinks Dish...
> 
> ALL OF VOOM IS GONE!!!
> ALL GONE!!!
> NO MORE VOOM!!!!!
> 
> Guide data is gone as well.
> 
> I am sitting here looking at the "Congratulations, You have a Dish 500".
> 
> Sucks!
> 
> Guess I should go watch the Fishing channel or maybe Cartoon network HD!!!
> 
> Sucks!


Take your thumb...
take your index finger....
Rub them together....

Now you have the worlds smallest violin....


----------



## P Smith

This minute(8:59pm PDT): Rush 9476/Kngfu 9479/Rave 9470/Equtr 9471/Mnstr 9481 GONE ! 
Deleted from system tables.


----------



## Mr. Vega

gone here too.

I didnt notice when the 1st ten went bye bye. thats how much i watched them.

but Monsters HD i watched alot. hope they have something good coming. for me it would be Spike.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Man have you ever seen this much movement in a month?! Let alone in just over 24hrs!!!


----------



## ronton3

Monsters, and Kungfu are now gone those along with world and film were my favorite channels if Direct has them I am gone.


----------



## Henry

As much as they repeated programing, they could just as well have put up a test pattern 24/7. 

I do agree, when it was good, it was super good ... but just how many times can you watch the same episode of Journeys of The Heart - Peru ... or Montreaux ... or Style Me, Rachael? 

I'm inclined to think that Voom brought this on themselves ... and even if E* doesn't really have our best interests at heart, for once they've done good by their subs.


----------



## calgary2800

I just noticed too Kung Fu is gone. that sucks.


----------



## da_pirate

I liked the GamePlay HD channel. I'm a big gamer. Only problem with that channel, lots of reruns. I also like RUSH HD and RAVE for the concerts. I don't have a premium package with movies so if there was nothing on TV, i could turn to one of those or Kung Fu and be happy. Most of the channels they added I had in SD and don't watch enough. Voom Channels the only reason I haven't switched to DirecTV. Now what sets dish appart? DVR is nicer but what else?
I'm sure i could get some real nice discounts for switching.


----------



## calgary2800

You know what is really bad? On a apples to apples comparsion to Directv I could have saved about 15-20 bucks per month. Why did I stay and commit to a 24 month contract? The Voom channels were unique and nothing else out there was like Gallery and Ultra HD and Treasure HD. Now I have 23 months to go on my contract and throwing money out the window since D is pretty much the same as Dish now. 

I lost big time. Big timing on my part to commit to dish.

if you do a comparsion of packages Directv is a much better deal than dish's packages price wise.


----------



## himini

lionsrule said:


> Take your thumb...
> take your index finger....
> Rub them together....
> 
> Now you have the worlds smallest violin....


<rant>

Gosh that was funny. You really got him there.

LOSING channels is not desirable for some of us, and this is (I hope) a place where the voicing of all opinions regarding Dish Network should be encouraged, regardless of whether they're negative or positive toward Charlie's decisions. I take it you would never dream of complaining if Charlie suddenly took away some channels that you happen to watch all the time?

You know what's much worse than all the complaining on these forums? The people who constantly complain about other people complaining.

</rant>

Sorry, I for one am very upset right now about losing Voom. It was easily my favorite thing about Dish Network. High-class, no commercials, high-quality HD content. Could it have been better (and less repetitious)? Yes. Am I still disappointed in losing it? Absolutely.

Can we confirm that all of Voom is gone now? Looks like on my guide that it is.


----------



## calgary2800

Some of these new HD channels have really bad PQ. Its just a step about from SD. Cartoon Network, Disney, Toon cannot compare to the PQ that Voom offers. 

Really, this is an insult to my awesome Panasonic Plasma.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

calgary2800 said:


> Some of these new HD channels have really bad PQ. Its just a step about from SD. Cartoon Network, Disney, Toon cannot compare to the PQ that Voom offers.


While I've always stood up for the Voom channels on Dish... I have to disagree with your specific choice of comparison here. I find Cartoon Network (minus the audio popping problem I started another thread to discuss), Disney, and Toon Disney to be far superior to Voom's Animania channel. Animania *should* have been able to be superior but it simply never was.

Aside from that, and how poorly HDNews compared to CNN or CNBC (or FOX if we ever get it in HD)... I agree with your sentiment about the rest of the Voom suite.

Sadly, to a large degree, Voom/Rainbow really has no one to blame but themselves.

I suspect, however, we will soon see IFC, AMC, and WE... and those channels may very well incorporate their library from FilmFest, Voom Movies, World Cinema, and Ultra HD... so not all the content will be lost.

Most missed would be MonstersHD, EquatorHD, and RaveHD for me... though other content on some of the other channels could be re-purposed if they wanted.

Truth to tell, even some of the MonstersHD movies found their way to HDNet Movies... and a few others will find their way to the MGMHD channel.

But I do wish they could have agreed on a re-purposing plan to consolidate to a smaller suite with less repetition AND at the same time improve their content by spending some more money.

Meanwhile, now that all 15 are gone... the 19 channel (at last count) Ultimate extended package drops to 4 + a handful of this week's additions like MGM and Smithsonian. I'm guessing still less than 10 channels now for that extra $10... so I'd expect either a bunch of new additions to that package OR a $5 drop in the package price.

I always figured we were paying $5 for the Voom suite... and now that it is completely gone, I think it would be fair to expect a $5 decrease in price unless we get 10-15 more channels ASAP.


----------



## palerider

dahenny said:


> Check your guides. E* has removed all but 5 of the Vooms. Monsters, Rush, Equator, Kung Fu, and Rave.


I have NO Voom channels now. Not even the five listed above. None of them are listed in All Channels, All Subscribed, or All HD guides. Anyone else lose all the Voom channels? I never watched any of the channels that were removed, but I did watch four out these five quite often. Anyone else lose ALL Voom channels?


----------



## Taco Lover

Wow. Amazing. I didn't mind losing the VOOM channels I didn't watch, but now the rest are gone. The Dish Network site confirms it.


----------



## Grady

The only show I ever watched regularly on the Voom channels was _Later with Jools Holland_. I think it was the only show on Rave that would occasionally show new episodes. In my opinion one of the best looking high-def programs out there- and every show was 60 minutes uncut (the BBC America version is edited down to make room for commercials). I hope HD version gets picked up by another channel (HDNET prehaps?).


----------



## lv99

Taco Lover said:


> Wow. Amazing. I didn't mind losing the VOOM channels I didn't watch, but now the rest are gone. The Dish Network site confirms it.


VOOM HD PQ is much better than most of new 22 HD channels they added. most of new HD are in upconversion mode. pq is really bad.

hopefully everyone join me file complaint at http://welcome.bbb.org/ so we get our VOOM back. who want to exchange WFN, Bravo, Cartoon in HD? do we have to stay for full 18 months of contract before switch to DTV?


----------



## Taco Lover

lv99 said:


> VOOM HD PQ is much better than most of new 22 HD channels they added. most of new HD are in upconversion mode. pq is really bad.
> 
> hopefully everyone join me file complaint at http://welcome.bbb.org/ so we get our VOOM back. who want to exchange WFN, Bravo, Cartoon in HD? do we have to stay for full 18 months of contract before switch to DTV?


ETF for Dish is $13.33 for every month left.


----------



## Chandu

bjf2007 said:


> So it appears one of the first channels deleted on DISH is WorldSport HD.
> 
> So no more Spanish Soccer La Liga in HD and they couldn't wait for another week
> or two until the season was over.
> 
> Thanks DISH!!!!!!





Lincoln6Echo said:


> Well ****!!! World Sport was the one of the only VOOM channels I watched. Mainly for CFL Football and Spanish Soccer.





clapple said:


> World Sport was about the only Voom, that I watched. ... I would think soccer fans would really be POed.


While I would like to feel sympathetic, I honestly don't. There is strong reason for this, and obviously VOOM brought this upon themselves with their greed and incompetence. Over the years, they showed absolutely no desire to make their programming compelling. They spent no money adding more inventory. They dropped 1 UEFA Cup match per matchday. On top of that, there is tons and tons of other HD soccer inventory available in the world elsewhere. Go through thread below in detail. Specifically, go through the great variety of HD soccer availability listed in that thread, which VOOM could've strived to pay rights for and make their existence compelling.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=86290

But they did none of that. Instead of adding content, they dropped content like UEFA Cup. To have to pay premium HD subscription fees to DISH with such shrinking inventory is definitely not justifiable.

Under current economic climate, this looks like the death for VOOM. Just like the AZN Network on Comcast (and INHD2 as well as INHD turning into irrelevant MojoHD or whatever on most cable systems), VOOM made themselves irrelevant. I don't give them any chance to stay alive now.

Apart from the Euro 2008 HD coverage on Disney family and MLS in HD coverage on HDNet, Comcast Sportsnet HD etc., the best bet to watch live HD soccer would now be to get The Score HD. That's from the start of next European club season. This channel shows 1 English Premiership match per week in HD and is available on Bell Expressvu.


----------



## kbuente

I also a month ago downgraded from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials and have AT-250 so I'm happy...the new national HD channels are cool....and I've found on a channel like Disney HD even though a show may be in SD, the PQ is better than on the SD channel....they are both digital but apparently in HD even SD shows come across cleaner?

Every time I check The Weather Channel to see what that looks like they happen to be on commercials....


----------



## peak_reception

*All of VOOM gone now! Midnight Massacre Part II.* So much for RAVE, Equator, Monsters, Kung Fu, and RUSH. And so much for the customers who enjoyed those and other VOOM channels. *Not even a hint of advance notice given!*

This is pretty drastic stuff going on at DISH nowadays. Only time will tell if this is simply good business, or desperate measures hastily taken.

I'll wait another week or so to see how things shake out. Unless something more compelling than MGM and the WTF channel are added in compensation to the Ultimate package then I'm dropping it like a bad habit. *I do like what I've seen of Smithsonian but it sure as hell doesn't make up for 15 VOOM channels, no matter how repetitive they could be.*


----------



## Stewart Vernon

peak_reception said:


> ...the WTF channel...


I had to laugh... I'm not into fishing, don't even eat fish... but I could at least understand someone might like it... except this particular channel has had exactly zero HD on it. IF it were in HD, then I might even take a peek for the scenery that should be nice... but it isn't even HD... so "WTF" suits it


----------



## peak_reception

Beyond whatever factor the VOOM lawsuit against DISH is playing in this, I can't help but think that another calculation is being made;

Namely, that VOOM channels are for the Wine and Cheese set. Oh sure, they'll *whine* some, and say "*Geez*, I kinda liked those", but won't revolt beyond civilized fussing.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

peak_reception said:


> Beyond whatever factor the VOOM lawsuit against DISH is playing in this, I can't help but think that another calculation is being made;
> 
> Namely, that VOOM channels are for the Wine and Cheese set. Oh sure, they'll *whine* some, and say "*Geez*, I kinda liked those", but won't revolt beyond civilized fussing.


On the one hand, the only way to get Voom back (if it stays) is to switch to the one cable company that picked it up... which isn't an option for most folks.

On the other hand, for some people Voom was the differentiator between Dish and DirecTV... so it will be interesting to see how this affects the churn.

I'm not going anywhere, but I was with Dish before they added Voom in the first place. IF I were a newbie who joined specifically because of Voom, my thought process might be different.


----------



## ENDContra

So I just signed up for Dish last week, havent had my install yet though...what is the chance that Dish will lower the price of the Ultimate package, since it went from 19 to 7 HD channels? Its $10 compared to $5 with Direct (basically the same channels too, when you consider how worthless WFN will be, and that NBA and NHL are included in lower package with D*). I would really miss not having HDNet Movies and UniversalHD to a lesser extent, but Im just not sure they are worth $10/month.


----------



## bjf2007

I sent off emails to the NY Times and USA Today.

Maybe they will have a reporter dig into this abrubt deleting of VOOM and not bothering to ask it's paying customers what we might want.

Or give us a consolidated VOOM package.
I'm still pissed about losing Spanish HD soccer and especially the last week of the season. 

They want their customers to stay and pay and be dedicated then they turn right around and bite you. Take away exclusive programming and expect everyone to be happy with DISH.

Great way to run a business.

Add to the above that DISH could care less about BaseBall fans with no MLB package.

bjf


----------



## braven

R.I.P.


----------



## Kman68

kmcnamara said:


> The remaining Voom channels are on their way out too.


When they go, Dish Ultimate leaves my bill.


----------



## projectorguru

shyguy666 said:


> the five voom channels left will be removed eventually.


they are already gone:nono2:


----------



## LinkNuc

Noone watches them, no but seriously to add the nationals now, its a matter of pure numbers, there's even a poll on here which backs up Dish's decision. Although I am questioning the Fishing network thing, wouldn't SPEED make more sense?


----------



## Ressurrector

All in all I think Dish made the right decision with what all they had to weigh such as a failing satelite and etc......


Overall I am not gonna miss Voom........ Once in awhile I enjoyed a Jason flick on Monsters and the eye candy of HD News which besides HBO had the best quality on Dish HD IMHO. (Actually HDNews looks better then CNN BUT I like CNN better)


BUT HD news was a generic and I much rather have a name brand news like CNN with names you know like Anderson Cooper and Larry King...

But.......Fishing channel??? LMAO I surfed in on it for 24 hours and have YET to see one real HD broadcast on it. Yep I always wanted to watch "Bass Masters" in HD Its True oh its true!


----------



## garys

LinkNuc said:


> Noone watches them, no but seriously to add the nationals now, its a matter of pure numbers, there's even a poll on here which backs up Dish's decision. Although I am questioning the Fishing network thing, wouldn't SPEED make more sense?


I would love Speed as well, but if you read up on what Fox is doing, you would understand why we haven't seen Speed in HD yet. Hopefully we'll see something very soon since the remaining Voom channels are gone.


----------



## shortspark

HDMe said:


> On the Voom front...
> 
> I like Voom, but have felt it was bloated ever since growing to 15 channels. I'm not sure how to crunch all the numbers, but it always seemed to me like they could have kept all their same content, with less repetition, re-bundled on perhaps 7-10 channels.
> 
> I think 5 is not enough to showcase everything they had to offer even with their lack of efforts to expand content.
> 
> MonstersHD can be good as it is... but I'd like to see them get more movies more often than they do.
> 
> Equator can also stand on its own... but again I'd like to see more money invested for new stuff more often.
> 
> I'm not a Kung-Fu fan, so I would have liked to see this channel morph into an action movie channel with all genres, not just Kung-Fu.
> 
> I could see combining Rush and WorldSport into one channel as long as any coverage of live events was not missed as a result. Both probably had a similar audience I suspect.
> 
> Gallery, Treasure, Ultra, and Rave could all have been combined into an Arts & Entertainment HD channel and cover all those subjects nicely I think.
> 
> The above descriptions would then be my "vision" of 5 Voom channels...
> 
> Since Rainbow owns AMC, I could see dropping Voom Movies and FilmFest and merge all that content into their AMC library and then they could just launch AMC HD and be done with that.
> 
> Similarly, I could see launching IFC in HD and rolling their existing content from the old World Cinema channel into that.
> 
> Unfortunately, Animania and HDNews never really lived up to expectations and with the new cartoon and news in HD launches... these really are obsolete. If they didn't spend money before, there's no reason to spend it here now. Let these 2 die peacefully.
> 
> Family Room is left as the only one I don't know what to do with... We have ABCFamily now in HD... but that isn't as family-oriented as it sounds... so if the bandwidth is there, maybe Family Room could stay with some more investment.
> 
> Worst case, in my opinion, then would be... 6 re-purposed Voom suite channels. That would free up space for 9 new channels without losing any content IF they also launched IFC and AMC in HD and used existing Voom HD content to help stock those channels. So that would be 8 "new" channels, and still 7 vacancies to be filled with other things.


Excellent! If they consolidated as you suggest things would work out much better for everyone involved. The picture was better on Voom and there were less commercials on most of them than we have now. In effect, I traded the ability to watch and listen in 5.1 the wonderful opera productions from around the world presented in HD on Gallery for the exciting sight and sounds of Bill Dance catching a bass. That's just marvelous!


----------



## Hound

Its not Voom that was incompetent, it was E* in its HD strategy and now E* is sticking a knife in the back of subs that stuck with E* and liked Voom.
At CES two and a half years ago, Charlie goes around promoting E* as having more HD than anyone. The following year, Charlie completely ignores HD. E* ends up in last place in HD penetration because E* ignores HD RSNs and HD locals and charges $5 for locals which are not in HD in many markets.

E* realizes that its HD strategy was not working and now tries to renegotiate its deal with Rainbow. E* without any concern for the HD subs that stuck with E* and made commitments without warning cancels Voom. The new channels with ads and much less HD 
content are not as good as Voom. I do not surf channels with ads. I will not stop at a channel if I know it has ads. Such as TNT, A&E, etc.


----------



## man_rob

I think the issue is that there was not enough avid Voom fans. Remember, this shake up comes on the heels of a major decline in net new subs. In light of other carrier's (who don't carry Voom) making sweeping gains in subs, I would imagine the line of thought was that the Voom just ain't bringin' 'em in. Dish is a business they've got to do what's going to keep them in business, and not just cater to a few niche viewers. Sure they could have kept Voom, but with the way things were going, it was starting to look that you'd not only have to do without Voom, but Dish Network too. This change was inevitable.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Ressurrector said:


> But.......Fishing channel??? LMAO I surfed in on it for 24 hours and have YET to see one real HD broadcast on it. Yep I always wanted to watch "Bass Masters" in HD Its True oh its true!


Sometimes people get what they ask for, even if it isn't really what they want... People wanted more sports and more "mainstream" HD... so they get WFN!

People wanted less repeats on Voom... so they get MAX West and 5-MAX, which show basically the same content as MAX that we already had!

Yay national HD!


----------



## Ressurrector

LOL HDMe I'm afraid your right cause many people *****ed bout Voom (including me) now that whole series of channels has been canned ........I kinda feel bad dude in a way cause I kinda was one of the voom haters out there and some of you guys really enjoyed its unique lineup. Maybe this forum is somewhere the corporate goes to hear what subscribers think I dunno..


maybe we should all be carefull what we wish for eh?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hound said:


> Its not Voom that was incompetent, it was E* in its HD strategy


I have to cast a vote for both on this one. Dish has not been as proactive as they could be for the last year (case in point proving what many of us said all along that they did in fact have bandwidth to launch 20+ HD channels but for whatever reason they didn't until now). Similarly, Rainbow Media has not significantly invested in their Voom suite to bolster its rotating programming with new and innovative programming.



Hound said:


> and now E* is sticking a knife in the back of subs that stuck with E* and liked Voom.


I have to agree on this point. Dish yanked the Voom channels without any notice at all to customers. In fact, it was less than a year ago they used Voom as a carrot to convert many folks to MPEG4 receivers by converting all of them over to MPEG4 and sending notice to customers that if they wanted to keep Voom they would need to upgrade to a ViP and commit again to another 24 months. Those customers in particular have an axe to grind with Dish over the lack of notice before pulling Voom from the lineup.



Hound said:


> E* realizes that its HD strategy was not working and now tries to renegotiate its deal with Rainbow.


I don't mind this part... because Voom was failing in terms of investment for new content by Rainbow... and Rainbow was failing to meet their end of the contract. Dish had every right to re-negotiate.

If Rainbow/Voom was smart, they would have negotiated with Dish to consolidate their channels into a smaller suite with less repetition AND come to terms on a new agreement that involved spending money to improve content. Rainbow could also have lumped WE, IFC, and AMC HD channels in to this new agreement if they were smart and had a win-win for Dish and Rainbow Media.


----------



## joemama41

Hound said:


> Its not Voom that was incompetent, it was E* in its HD strategy and now E* is sticking a knife in the back of subs that stuck with E* and liked Voom.
> At CES two and a half years ago, Charlie goes around promoting E* as having more HD than anyone. The following year, Charlie completely ignores HD. E* ends up in last place in HD penetration because E* ignores HD RSNs and HD locals and charges $5 for locals which are not in HD in many markets.
> 
> E* realizes that its HD strategy was not working and now tries to renegotiate its deal with Rainbow. E* without any concern for the HD subs that stuck with E* and made commitments without warning cancels Voom. The new channels with ads and much less HD
> content are not as good as Voom. I do not surf channels with ads. I will not stop at a channel if I know it has ads. Such as TNT, A&E, etc.


So Voom's strategy of not changing (and recycling) content despite failing to appeal to new subscribers is competent, in your opinion?

E* _did_ have more HD than anyone, everyone just caught up. If you count the months (not even year or years) that E* is or has been behind in HD channel count, especially in contrast to the years that they led the Pay-TV HD market, the strategy isn't nearly as bad as you make it sound. 2007 was hardly a banner year for E* HD, subscriber growth dropped, strategy has changed and is continuing to change.

If D* continues to add subs and market themselves as an HD leader, it doesn't make sense for E* to continue with Voom as an HD alternative. With better HD equipment (IMO) and the same channels for the same price, E* can at the very least split subscriber additions with the people who are siging up with D* specifically for HD offerings.

Incidentally, channels with ads are cheaper per sub than channels without and, as we've seen here, everyone using channel count, rather than quality, to judge HD offerings, Voom dropping simply shouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## Marriner

As much as i loved watching soundstage on Rave, I can say that E*'s descision to cancel voom is not surprising. They have a finite amount of bandwith and need to occupy it with programming that is more mainstream. (WFN notwithstanding) I now see that MHD has a lot of Soundstage episodes upcoming. It may be a station logo is all i have to get used to.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Marriner said:


> I now see that MHD has a lot of Soundstage episodes upcoming. It may be a station logo is all i have to get used to.


I hadn't noticed that... Between HDNet, MHD, and my local OTA PBSHD station... maybe we will get most of what Rave had in another form.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Taco Lover said:


> There's plenty of discussion happening in the HD forums.


Yep... The bulk of the discussion has been happening here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=128467


----------



## Kman68

My DVR todo list is now empty. There is zero HD on WFN, ABC Family and Bravo. Good work Dish, you flushed your service. I am dumping everything down to the bare minimum.

For those who complained about VOOM's repeats, check the schedule for MGM and Smithsonian, they are choke full of repeats.


----------



## howie14

GrumpyBear said:


> Could you add a 5th choice?
> More Mainstream, but will miss a few of them.


yep, I voted mad, but I would have voted this way if available. It's a loaded poll designed to get anti-VOOM response.

Maybe the question, "Do you agree with DISH in removing 15 HD channels and replacing them with NOTHING?" should have been asked.

VOOM wasn't great, but it was 24/7 HD and I did watch about 4 of them.

"Mainstream" HD channels consisting of the same stretched L&O, CSI and Dateline reruns isn't all that appealling.


----------



## lv99

GrumpyBear said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but what can you watch on Rave this week that wasn't on for all month just 6 months ago.


it's much better than WFN, Cartoon, GAMEP, RUSH, ANIMANIA, GALLERY.


----------



## Ressurrector

I will say one thing in defense of you voom guys and that was I didnt know giving us a few new nationals mean they would pull the voom plug in the middle of the night on voom. No warnings or nothing..........


----------



## moman19

Marriner said:


> As much as i loved watching soundstage on Rave, I can say that E*'s descision to cancel voom is not surprising. They have a finite amount of bandwith and need to occupy it with programming that is more mainstream. (WFN notwithstanding) I now see that MHD has a lot of Soundstage episodes upcoming. It may be a station logo is all i have to get used to.


Yes, but with commercial breaks. But thank God for the DVR


----------



## Hound

Joemama41,
Yes, Voom's strategy was competent because it produced ad free high quality content. Most subs only have a one to two hour a day max window to watch Voom. During that window, I could find something to watch.

Voom was not attracting new subs because of E*'s
poor decision making. You can spin it anyway you want but 2007 was a bad year for E* because it made bad choices. No HD RSNs. I still do not get an HD RSN with E*. Not enough HD local markets.
Only 4 HD local channels.
Going around saying E* had more HD than anyone 
when E* was in last place in HD penetration.

Yes, ad free HD channels cost more and E* had the highest HD fee in the industry $20. Obviously, this did not work. 

I will give you an example of why the Voom content
strategy was not incompetent. Take me.
I have a one hour train
commute to New York City every day. 7.00AM train every morning. Last night got home at 8.50,
went to bed at 11.30.
On 2 TVs side by side, I managed to watch the end of Phillies/Braves on Verizon CSN HD, Mets/Nationals on D* MLB EI, Marlins/Reds D* MLB EI, Flyers/Pens E* VS, Wildlife Nannies and a show about blue whales on Equator HD. Point is I can always find a qualiity HD offering on Voom in my window.

Now E* cannot price HD at $20. That does not work. Rainbow/Cablevision 
needs E*. Look at Cableviision's HD strategy.
35 percent HD penetration to E*'s 7 percent. Cablevision provides Voom to all of its HD subs. No lack of interest there. Cablevision also provides 4 HD RSNs and seven HD locals. Cablevision does mot charge for locals or HD.
No lack of programming interest in Voom. What is the difference? Cablevision has a better HD strategy.

E* should protect its subs
that made commitments and stuck with E*. Cablevision needs E*. Some compromise needs to be worked out where 
Voom can be optional niche programming to E* 
subs at some price.


----------



## lv99

i downgrade from ultimate HD + american 100 + free MAX for a year with autopay (will call at the end to get addition year of MAX for free) to essential HD. A friendly CSR gave me discount. so it cost me only $6.5 more to go from a100 to a250 for 4 rooms. i will miss my kungfu, ultra, world sport, rave, equator, movie, film fest


----------



## sangu72

I'm speechless, where am I going to get the Jools Holland program? European soccer in HD? Monsters in HD? Voom was providing a product that appealed to certain consumers. That's how they got me in the first place. By building a consumer base made of many different niches they were successful, but now they don't have anything different to offer (well, unless you are a fishing HD fan). I hope this is just a little quarrel between Voom and E* and that some, if not all, those channels come back.


----------



## booger

I will miss MonstersHD.


----------



## Vidfreek

Wow I was just happy a little while ago and now I'm really mad, MonstersHD and Kung Fu HD were the reasons I switched to Dish in the first place, now again they are back to having no reason to really stay with them over going to DTV or even others like Verizon FiOS, I'm really pissed now that they took off Monsters HD, it was the ONLY horror site in HD and it played some really great stuff, they just got things back up and going good with some of the best stuff they've had in months and Dish just cuts all of VOOM off their listing....

At least the added the Chiller channel (199 I believe) which kind of makes up for it, but I wanted my horror in HD, at least Chiller has an awesome lineup of classic horror shows like Tales from the Crypt, Freddy's Nightmares and many others, its a great channel, but movie wise it doesnt really touch Monsters HD

I might have to write them again, I already did when they werent adding any HD and now that they do they take away the whole reason I went with them in the first place, man.....I'm pissed now


----------



## slowmo

I think a more fitting choice should have been "Who gives a $%*#, I rarely watched VOOM and I will rarely, if ever, watch the majority of the new additions.

Basically, Bravo, CNN, CNBC, USA and SciFi are the only worthwhile adds. Now Dish needs to suck it up and do what it takes to add some Fox channels.

Note that I waited two days to post this relatively negative comment as I didn't want to spoil the enthusiasm for "22 new national HD..." embraced by so many cheerleaders hereon.


----------



## Vidfreek

Yep, it affected me, Monsters HD and KungFu HD were the whole reasons I went with Dish in the first place, I was happy when they added a lot of channels last night and we still had those two but now ALL of VOOM is gone and my favorite two channels are gone with it, I watched Monsters HD a lot and it was the ONLY good horror channel out there PERIOD.....they did add Chiller but it isnt in HD, it makes up for some because I really wanted that channel as well, but I'm going to miss my Monsters HD and Kung Fu 

If I wasnt under contract I would probably switch to DirecTV right now since VOOM and those two channels kept me with Dish, now there really is no reason NOT to change, but we'll see in the next few weeks what they will do and what they will add, since they got rid of like 14 HD channels by cutting VOOM there should be some room for good stuff


----------



## allargon

I often watched Ultra HD. They actually talk about fashion unlike the Style network which is nothing but bad reality shows.

I regularly watched 9 of the 15 Voom. Rave, Rush and Equator were also favorites of mine. The repeats were getting kind of old. However, upconverted stretch-o-vision does not impress me at all.


----------



## allargon

slowmo said:


> I think a more fitting choice should have been "Who gives a $%*#, I rarely watched VOOM and I will rarely, if ever, watch the majority of the new additions.
> 
> Basically, Bravo, CNN, CNBC, USA and SciFi are the only worthwhile adds. Now Dish needs to suck it up and do what it takes to add some Fox channels.
> 
> Note that I waited two days to post this relatively negative comment as I didn't want to spoil the enthusiasm for "22 new national HD..." embraced by so many cheerleaders hereon.


Bravo would actually have to show some HD to be worthwhile.


----------



## shyguy666

just my opinion, but without the voom channels, dishs hd pack is a complete waste of money, the voom channels made it different ,now they are gone, just a bunch of channels that most people already have in standard, all i know about hd is better picture color and sound,at least thats what people say, lets hope the voom channels come back eventually otherwise i think a lot of people will get rid of their hd especially if they already have the channels in standard.


----------



## tsmacro

Well here's my take on this, this probably had more to do with the lawsuit than anything else, after all we've all seen this happen numerous times w/ Dish, there's a disagreement over carriage and Dish responds by pulling the "offending" channels when they decide they want to play hardball. Of course in this particular case it also opens up more bandwidth for Dish to play with which is at a premium at the moment. If Voom manages to survive I think it's possible that we may see them back when Dish gets one or two of their new satellites up and there's more transponder space available. That's a big IF though, I think the signs are there that point towards Voom not being very financially viable, it wouldn't be too surprising to hear that Voom just goes out of business soon.


----------



## tsmacro

Well i'd rather have them than not, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. I think the only one I watched with any regularity was Rave, but occasionally i'd stop on something on one of the others while surfing. I'm a little disappointed after all more HD is better than less but i'd have to agree w/ many others here that I don't really think Voom had enough content to fill up 15 channels with compelling programming on any kind of regular basis.


----------



## tsmacro

Ok the above two responses were in two separate threads when I wrote them! So I guess they got merged while I was posting.


----------



## MadScientist

Well I just have to say one thing on this matter. I would rather have more not less! Yes, some channels I did not watch on Voom, but there were a few. So to everyone saying good by to Voom, they are the same people saying why don’t Dish network add more HD. Are you happy now?


----------



## meatball15

I'm glad they got rid of Gameplay HD. That channel had potential but had too much repeat and outdated programming. I'm more than satisfied with the additional HD channels like travelHD, Cinemax HD West, CNNHD, etc.


----------



## Oblong Desoto

howie14 said:


> yep, I voted mad, but I would have voted this way if available. It's a loaded poll designed to get anti-VOOM response.
> 
> Maybe the question, "Do you agree with DISH in removing 15 HD channels and replacing them with NOTHING?" should have been asked.
> 
> VOOM wasn't great, but it was 24/7 HD and I did watch about 4 of them.
> 
> "Mainstream" HD channels consisting of the same stretched L&O, CSI and Dateline reruns isn't all that appealling.


Howie... This poll was not designed to elicit any particular response. I merely paraphrased what Charlie used as his excuse for removing the VOOM channels on the investor con-call.

I'd appreciate it if you would avoid armchair psychology in the future. :nono:

-OD


----------



## Stewart Vernon

For something really funny...

This morning there was an HD fishing program on... the VS/Golf HD channel!

Still no HD on WFN... and the only HD fishing was on a channel we already had!


----------



## Dicx

meatball15 said:


> I'm glad they got rid of Gameplay HD. That channel had potential but had too much repeat and outdated programming. I'm more than satisfied with the additional HD channels like travelHD, Cinemax HD West, CNNHD, etc.


I agree that some channels repeated a lot, but to me losing the 15 VOOM Channels was losing 15 choices of solid HD quality programming.

When you are flipping through your guide some night cause you can't find anything to watch, you will now have 15 less channels to choose from.


----------



## wreck

Dicx said:


> I agree that some channels repeated a lot, but to me losing the 15 VOOM Channels was losing 15 choices of solid HD quality programming.
> 
> When you are flipping through your guide some night cause you can't find anything to watch, you will now have 15 less channels to choose from.


My math says + 20 - 15 = + 5 (with more MAINSTREAM on the way)


----------



## starcrossedpimp

im just sad that monster HD is gone, i really liked that channel.


----------



## butters

I currently do not subscribe to Dish HD mainly because my locals aren't available in HD yet so this doesn't directly affect me. However, it think this was a pretty lousy move on Dish's part especially without giving anyone fair warning.

People can argue all they want about whether Voom channels suck or not but the bottom line is that a lot of folks enjoy these channels and Dish was in a unique situation because you can't get these channels anywhere else. Seems like a step in the wrong direction to get rid of these channels especially when playing the HD numbers war with Directv.


----------



## Tulsa1

allargon said:


> Grrr.... I could get non-Voom channels w/ DirectTV. I am mad as hell about the loss of Ultra. They will hear from me tomorrow.


My thoughts exactly!!


----------



## koji68

I voted the cancel option. I did, partially. I switched to HD Essentials. The Ultimate package is overpriced for what is offered. I can use the $10 to up my Netflix account and get the content that I want.


----------



## moman19

In the end, this will hopefully be a net gain for all of us. However, with that said, I'm a bit upset that the $10 or so I pay extra for HD Ultimate for VOOM is suddenly for what?

I went to the E* web site only to discover that any new/revised HD packages are nowhere to be seen and I am unable to change or even review my account (Under Construction?). While I understand that E* does not want thousands of subs to jump on and modify their existing plans, I frankly don't know what channels I am paying for and what will be optional. 

It stinks that I'm getting Fishing in HD but must pay extra for National Geo in HD. Niches are nice but please don't ram miro-niches down our throats while claiming to have the "MOST" HD channels.


----------



## rfowkes

I think the way that this way handled was a bit bush league. I found myself watching the VOOM offerings much more than I thought I would and the picture and sound was always top notch (something that can't be said for a lot of the other "HD" channels that often offer non-HD and 4:3 content with inferior sound on a regular basis). At least VOOM was HD picture and 5.1 sound 24/7.

There's probably a lot more to this that Dish isn't telling us, including some VOOM politics and the fact that the botched satellite launch probably affected the Dish HD master plan much more than they are admitting at this point in time. Otherwise, why would you drop a service that distinguished you from the "other" satellite provider?

 

And in a related question, is VOOM also gone from those cable providers who also offered these channels? Just curious.

I'll live without VOOM on my extensive dish installation but the bottom line to me is that Dish took one step backward as well as one step forward with their "additional" 22 HD channels and standing in place is not a very smart marketing plan, in my opinion.

Sorry Charlie.


----------



## space86

With Voom gone does this mean that Dish can add 15 HD
channels ?


----------



## tnsprin

Certainly I am not happy that all of Voom is now gone from Dish. But the Poll doesn't leave my any good responses. I don't plan to leave Dish, yet, but they certainly need to add more channels with real HD rather than the majority of 22 channels just added with little or no HD content. To start with they need to add 15 or more new HD channels.


----------



## dennispap

TNGTony said:


> From www.dishlist.net
> 
> Gallery 9472 (Currently showing a slate touting the 22 new channels with a crawl saying they removed the less popular channels because of this (THAT IS A LIE. The channels were on different transponders. They removed them to save a freaking nickel off of OUR subscriptions! --can you tell I am very upset over this?))
> Treasure 9473
> Aniamania 9474
> Voom Movies 9475
> World Sport 9477
> ULTRA 9478
> Film Fest 9480 - The only place to watch great movies from all over the world, GONE. I'll give back 21 of the 22 new channels for this one back!
> HD News Channel 9482 - the only REAL news channel on TV (not a political analyst or talk show in sight!). Remember CNN HN when they were headline news, that is what was removed here. Gee. Thanks again, Dish!
> Game Play 9485
> Family Room 9486


If you notice on the slate 2 of the "NEW" channels are Cinemaxhd and
animal planet hd. Real new, we have been having both of these forever:nono2:


----------



## cyberczar

LinkNuc said:


> Noone watches them, no but seriously to add the nationals now, its a matter of pure numbers, there's even a poll on here which backs up Dish's decision. Although I am questioning the Fishing network thing, wouldn't SPEED make more sense?


Saying the poll back's up Dish's decision is a bit of a fallacy. The poll was posted yesterday when we still had 5 Voom channels. At the time I voted that more mainstream HD was a fair tradeoff, because I assumed that would mean that the remaining 5 channels might consolidate/absorb some of the programming from the other 10. Plus, the channels I really care the most about are Equator, Rave, and Rush (although Filmfest was great, too). The point is, in light of those channels now being gone too, if I could change my vote, i would, because I'm sure as hell not keeping the hd ultimate package now! Oh, and as for a matter of pure numbers, in the last 3 days I gained 12 HD channels and lost 15. That's -3 channels. I lose.


----------



## dennispap

HDMe said:


> Sometimes people get what they ask for, even if it isn't really what they want... People wanted more sports and more "mainstream" HD... so they get WFN!
> 
> People wanted less repeats on Voom... so they get MAX West and 5-MAX, which show basically the same content as MAX that we already had!
> 
> Yay national HD!


5maxhd still hasnt shown 1 thing in hd since dish added it


----------



## wreck

How many people here are familiar with the recent law suit between Dish and VOOM? Basicly, the courts ruled that VOOM violated the carriage agreement because they did not comply with their "new content" requirements. Dish Network really had the only recourse to terminate their contract with VOOM or pay VOOM for something they were not getting. This is VOOM's fault. 
That said, Dish Network should have explained to their subs that VOOM is in breach of contract instead of just simply removing them without explanation. JMO


----------



## moman19

cyberczar said:


> .......Oh, and as for a matter of pure numbers, in the last 3 days I gained 12 HD channels and lost 15. That's -3 channels. I lose.


Keep in mind the channels we lost were 100% commercial-free. Many of the 12 we now have are subsidized with commercials. Therefore, in my mind, E* still owes us a bunch of HD channels.

......or a refund.


----------



## Tulsa1

cyberczar said:


> Saying the poll back's up Dish's decision is a bit of a fallacy. The poll was posted yesterday when we still had 5 Voom channels. At the time I voted that more mainstream HD was a fair tradeoff, because I assumed that would mean that the remaining 5 channels might consolidate/absorb some of the programming from the other 10. Plus, the channels I really care the most about are Equator, Rave, and Rush (although Filmfest was great, too). The point is, in light of those channels now being gone too, if I could change my vote, i would, because I'm sure as hell not keeping the hd ultimate package now! Oh, and as for a matter of pure numbers, in the last 3 days I gained 12 HD channels and lost 15. That's -3 channels. I lose.


Well SH!T!!!!!!!!
If the other 5 are gone now then I'm dumping E*
I really enjoyed RUSH not to mention the others were ALL HD too.
VOOM was the whole reason I joined E* in the first place.
I've always had D* also and was about to dump them.
So much for that plan. With VOOM gone I'm better off keeping D* and dumping E*
Nice move DISH:flaiming


----------



## TBoneit

Richard King said:


> A good recap of my position also. I really think that Dish is making a mistake in doing this. Voom was the ONLY thing that made them different than Directv or many cable operations. I think this move makes them less competative with the competition and gives no one a specific reason to consider Dish over that competition.


Specific Reason would be a less Expensive HD only package compared to everybody elses HD options. My opinion would be that having the only HD only package available will be reason to choose them for new subs if it is marketed right.



space86 said:


> With Voom gone does this mean that Dish can add 15 HD
> channels ?


That would be my guess as the 15 Vooms were up along with the additions for a while. The other side of the coin would be that they decided the new channels didn't look good and needed more bandwidth. Flip a Coin to decide.

Speculation:

A W.A.G. on my part of why these were in testing was to get a feel for bandwidth requirements over a period of time. HD Channels that show 4:3 shows need less bandwidth than ones that run 16:9. So if there were a GSN HD channel where the content is mainly or completely 4:3 it would be a easier add as the bandwidth requirments would be lower.

Channel adds may have been delayed while they acquired MPEG4 converters and tuned them. It isn't like these can bought by calling Best Buy and ordering them. I suspect a fair lead time is needed.

15 Vooms gone means 15 extra mpeg4 converters for other adds.


----------



## Teagore

I have read some posts stating that this might be the death of voom. after doing some research I'm not so sure. if you go to the rainbow media web page and click on the voom logo, you get taken to their main page about voom. on the left side they show their most recent press releases (stating some things i was not aware of) to sum up they:

1. have a deal with amazon.com to "make nearly 50 titles from its extensive library of high-definition content available for purchase on DVD on-demand through Amazon.com."

2. They have a deal with "sky satellite" which i guess is big in Europe as part of their "Continued Global Expansion"

3. Pretty much the same as #2, but in Norway.

4. Not on that page but they also have that iotv thing.

now, a couple things here. now that voom is dropped by E*, would amazon still want them? lets assume that not that many people had voom on E* to begin with like E* says, is them being dropped hurting them that much financially? I'm sure being given the boot doesn't help voom regardless, but maybe it's not so bad for them as we think. especially if they make some sort of comeback with E*. If E* really doesn't want them anymore, period, then i assume they are gong to sell their 20% stake in voom. Who would buy? oh, fyi, on voom's page they still have E* as a carrier of their programming. doesn't necessarily mean anything but...


----------



## Henry

Lawsuits and blamegames aside, the sad truth is the Voom's programing was paralyzed to not only their detriment, but E*'s and ours as well. Putting them back in the lineup will not add any content we haven't already seen countless number of times. 

I'll be interested to see what replacement channels (if any) are added. My sense is that even basket weaving - when updated regularly - is better than StaleTV.


----------



## HarveyLA

koji68 said:


> I voted the cancel option. I did, partially. I switched to HD Essentials. The Ultimate package is overpriced for what is offered. I can use the $10 to up my Netflix account and get the content that I want.


One free premium movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc) should be added to HD Ultimate. Or, HD Ultimate should be shut down and its channels shifted to HD Essentials with no increase in price. Unless Dish acts to correct the imbalance, there will be a flood of cancellations (at least from Ultimate) and somebody just may file a consumer lawsuit. Also, so-called "HD" channels filled with commercials and upconverted 4x3 content are no substitute for REAL HD channels. I question whether there should be an extra fee to pick up HD simulcasts of existing channels at all. Can you imagine back in the 50's and 60's, asking people to pay for color TV broadcasts - the same programs they could pick up for free in Black and White?


----------



## nmetro

I will admit timing the drop of VOOM to after the Tech Chat was a pretty go maneuver. 

Personally, I looked at the VOOM channels on a rare basis. I would say, I watched them more than HBO, Cinemax, et. al. when I had them. I watched World Sport, World Movies, Filmfest and Monster, if I watched them at all. At any rate, what's done is done. My only issue with this is the DISH Press Release touting the addition of 22 HD channels, where in actuality, the net gain was 7, 5, or 3 depending on ones' subscription; hence, the Tech Chat comment above.

VOOM, which is owned by Cablevision/Rainbow Media, was a failed attempt to start a third DBS service. The infighting within Cablevision was the main factor for VOOM going on its repeat cycle and its eventual elimination from DISH. 

In this case, DISH had an agreement with Cablevision/Rainbow Media to transmit VOOM in exchange for new content being delivered. This agreement was not upheld by Cablevision/Rainbow Media. So, DISH sued them and subsequently dropped their channels.

While losing 15 HD channels is not easy to swallow, the situation was not of DISH's making. I wonder what the readers of Newsday have to look forward to?


----------



## aloishus27

Oblong Desoto said:


> Howie... This poll was not designed to elicit any particular response. I merely paraphrased what Charlie used as his excuse for removing the VOOM channels on the investor con-call.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you would avoid armchair psychology in the future. :nono:
> 
> -OD


I have to say that even i took your poll the same way. poorly worded IMO. Seems to be worded to get a certain response.


----------



## Taco Lover

Now, if I could change my vote, I think I would. Not to the extreme of cancelling, but it does not leave a good impression on me that every VOOM channel was deleted. The way it was handled was not what I expect from a satellite provider that is trying (are they?) to be the best there is. Yes, I did not watch it a majority of the time, but every now and then it was cool to watch something produced specifically for HD with 5.1 surround sound instead of up-resed stretch-o-vision crap.


----------



## 8arrett

HarveyLA said:


> One free premium movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc) should be added to HD Ultimate. Or, HD Ultimate should be shut down and its channels shifted to HD Essentials with no increase in price. Unless Dish acts to correct the imbalance, there will be a flood of cancellations (at least from Ultimate) and somebody just may file a consumer lawsuit. Also, so-called "HD" channels filled with commercials and upconverted 4x3 content are no substitute for REAL HD channels. I question whether there should be an extra fee to pick up HD simulcasts of existing channels at all. Can you imagine back in the 50's and 60's, asking people to pay for color TV broadcasts - the same programs they could pick up for free in Black and White?


Didn't/Doesn't BBC have a price difference between "colour" and b+w when it comes to the licensing fee? Of course, that IS in the UK and not here. ;-)


----------



## wreck

nmetro said:


> I will admit timing the drop of VOOM to after the Tech Chat was a pretty go maneuver.
> 
> Personally, I looked at the VOOM channels on a rare basis. I would say, I watched them more than HBO, Cinemax, et. al. when I had them. I watched World Sport, World Movies, Filmfest and Monster, if I watched them at all. At any rate, what's done is done. My only issue with this is the DISH Press Release touting the addition of 22 HD channels, where in actuality, the net gain was 7, 5, or 3 depending on ones' subscription; hence, the Tech Chat comment above.
> 
> VOOM, which is owned by Cablevision/Rainbow Media, was a failed attempt to start a third DBS service. The infighting within Cablevision was the main factor for VOOM going on its repeat cycle and its eventual elimination from DISH.
> 
> In this case, DISH had an agreement with Cablevision/Rainbow Media to transmit VOOM in exchange for new content being delivered. This agreement was not upheld by Cablevision/Rainbow Media. So, DISH sued them and subsequently dropped their channels.
> 
> While losing 15 HD channels is not easy to swallow, the situation was not of DISH's making. I wonder what the readers of Newsday have to look forward to?


EXACTLY! VOOM was in breach of contract. Dish had really no recourse. I *do* believe that Dish *OWES* us a replacement for that bandwidth though. They are promising over 100 channels by year end -- I think that is fair.


----------



## ZBoomer

Interesting, yesterday this page http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index2.shtml showed the 5 remaining VOOM channels listed, now they removed them from the web site.

Only one I'll really miss is Rave. But I have to say it's too bad overall, these channels had better PQ than any others.


----------



## Oblong Desoto

aloishus27 said:


> I have to say that even i took your poll the same way. poorly worded IMO. Seems to be worded to get a certain response.


You're right. In light of the remaining VOOM channels being shut off last night, I'll admit the poll questions now seem a bit biased under the circumstances. Another option or two between "cancel" and "fair tradeoff" would have made it better.

I didn't expect my first ever poll post to be stickied either. :whatdidid


----------



## grog

The poll shows one thing.

Almost 30% of those polled are ready to leave due to this issue, myself included.  

Dish can take that to the bank!


----------



## Jeff_DML

grog said:


> The poll shows one thing.
> 
> Almost 30% of those polled are ready to leave due to this issue, myself included.
> 
> Dish can take that to the bank!


I just signed a 2 year contract last week. I knew they where allowed to change programming options but still pretty lame move on their part.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Over 70% of Direct HR2x owners want DLB, and they are still waiting 2yrs later. Let the dust settle, and see how things shake out, its been a busy month, and I think more is coming.


----------



## Taco Lover

Jeff_DML said:


> I just signed a 2 year contract last week. I knew they where allowed to change programming options but still pretty lame move on their part.


In most cases, you have 30 days to cancel.


----------



## nmetro

one more take on this.

Back in the early 1960s there were very few television programs broadcast in color. Matter of fact, NBC was the first network to show programs in color. The purpose was to sell RCA television set. The actual acquired the "Disneyland" program from ABC and rechristened it "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color", circa 1960. The "Adventures of Superman" later years (late 1950s) were shot in color, and so was the famous Mary Martin's "Perter Pan" in 1960. Only a few had color TVs to see the shows. ABC starting showing shows in color in the early 1960s, followed by CBS in the mdi-1960s. Yet, all these conversions was a way to encourage folks to buy color TVs.

Fast forward to about four years ago. DISH Network needed a way to sell HDTV, and what better way to do it was to acquire VOOM. VOOM, plus HDNet, HD Movied and HD Theater were tools to lure subscribers to HD televisions and HD satellite service. It has been a very recent development that national networks have started to offer HD content. The amount of hours of HD programming today is similar to the number of hours of color TV back in the 1960s.

So, in the end VOOM served its purpose as a luring tool to sell HDTV service and televisions. Yes, dropping analog broadcasts next year has increased HDTV sales, but not very long ago those who signed up for HDTV service were similar pioneers to those who were the first on their block to own a color TV back in the early 1960s.

YEs, it is not great that VOOM sent away, but it served its purpose. There will be more HD channels and some will be commercial free (MGM-H), but I expect FOX Movie Channel and Turner Classic Movies will be launching HD service anytime now (if they haven't already). The same goes for IFC. Not to mention Bomerange, Nicleodeon and all the other Warner owned channels.

I do admit that DISH could have done a better job informing people of their true intentions. Giving with one hand and taking with another does not good customer service make.


----------



## Jason Nipp

grog said:


> The poll shows one thing.
> 
> Almost 30% of those polled are ready to leave due to this issue, myself included.
> 
> Dish can take that to the bank!


Dish will look at that same poll and see that 53% don't care at all about the Voom channels as long as something better replaces them. You can take that to the bank.

I have a feeling Dish is bringing more mainstream channels very soon. No data to support that other than a few threads talking about channels being uplinked.

I say wait and see... I was very disappointed with Voom's lack of new content. I truly feel let down by their commitment to provide new content in 07.

I also feel that anyone who strongly objects to the loss hasn't had the channels since they were first started. Way too much looped repetition.

Again, lets wait this out, something tells me they will be backfilled with some channels more compelling.


----------



## aloishus27

grog said:


> The poll shows one thing.
> 
> Almost 30% of those polled are ready to leave due to this issue, myself included.
> 
> Dish can take that to the bank!


Yup I just downgraded from Dish HD Ultimate to Dish HD Essentials. Thats $120.00/yr of my money they will cease to see.


----------



## twehrle

I actually watched Rave HD quite a bit. The video and audio was excellent. I can't believe the trade off we got for removing some of those Voom channels, was The Weather Channel and cartoons in HD. That was a waste. Why do those channels even need HD?

I will definitely be recommending now to my friends that maybe they should stay clear of Dish. At least when the other companies promote new HD channel lineups it is not at the sacrifice of other channels. That is misleading and dishonest.

I agree with some of the other posters that the DishHD Ultimate seems like it is over priced now. I may drop to a lower package as well.


----------



## aloishus27

Jason Nipp said:


> Dish will look at that same poll and see that 53% don't care at all about the Voom channels as long as something better replaces them. You can take that to the bank.
> 
> I have a feeling Dish is bringing more mainstream channels very soon. No data to support that other than a few threads talking about channels being uplinked.
> 
> I say wait and see... I was very disappointed with Voom's lack of new content. I truly feel let down by their commitment to provide new content in 07.
> 
> I also feel that anyone who strongly objects to the loss hasn't had the channels since they were first started. Way too much looped repetition.
> 
> Again, lets wait this out, something tells me they will be backfilled with some channels more compelling.


I just dowgraded from the HD Ultimate to HD Essentials, because without the Voom what good is it. I did have the Voom from the very beginning, and I loved WorldSport, Animania, Gameplay, my mife loved Ultra, and we both loved Equater and Rave. so it was worth every bit of $10 a month.

Now, its worth $0, hence my dropping of the package.

AND ITS NOT A TRADE OFF SINCE ALL OF THE CHANNELS WERE UPLINKED FOR MORE THAN A WEEK TOGETHER, SO THE CAPACITY LINE THEY ARE HANDING US IS A CROCK OF CRAP.


----------



## Jason Nipp

twehrle said:


> ...At least when the other companies promote new HD channel lineups it is not at the sacrifice of other channels. That is misleading and dishonest.


Not sure you have your facts straight on that one. There is actually a suit going on between E* and Rainbow. I personally believe adding 22 had nothing to do with the loss of these 15. They were up simultaneously for awhile anyhow.

I also liked Rave, but again it was lacking new content and after watching Glastonbury a few 100 times it does get old and boring.


----------



## Jason Nipp

aloishus27 said:


> I just dowgraded from the HD Ultimate to HD Essentials, because without the Voom what good is it. I did have the Voom from the very beginning, and I loved WorldSport, Animania, Gameplay, my mife loved Ultra, and we both loved Equater and Rave. so it was worth every bit of $10 a month.


Your entitled to your opinion, but what if something really cool replaces them, and the replacements are not in the Essentials tier?

In my personal opinion a lot of people are over-reacting and pulling the plug prematurely as the dust has not settled yet.

I see quite a few angry people, but having a knee-jerk aggressive response before E* has explained why and how their going to fill the void and make you happy again.... perhaps we should let the dust settle before getting bent out of shape.



> AND ITS NOT A TRADE OFF SINCE ALL OF THE CHANNELS WERE UPLINKED FOR MORE THAN A WEEK TOGETHER, SO THE CAPACITY LINE THEY ARE HANDING US IS A CROCK OF CRAP.


You quoted me and shouted this at me?? Sorry I never said it was a trade off for the new 22 or anything about bandwidth.

Please check your posting etiquette and calm down a bit.


----------



## kblee

Jason Nipp said:


> Again, lets wait this out, something tells me they will be backfilled with some channels more compelling.


Agreed - and the Voom channels are still being uplinked for a reason. The ball is in Voom's court. They will either agree to spend an appropriate amount of $$ on programming / content to get their channels reactivated, or they won't.


----------



## aloishus27

Jason Nipp said:


> You quoted me and shouted this at me?? Sorry I never said it was a trade off for the new 22 or anything about bandwidth.
> 
> This is your warning, Please check your posting etiquette and calm down a bit.... Please do not challenge me on that.


That last bit was not to you in particular, I just didn't feel like creating a new post just to make that point.

Edit: (Tom Robertson) Improper insult removed.


----------



## Jason Nipp

aloishus27 said:


> That last bit was not to you in particular, I just didn't feel like creating a new post just to make that point.
> 
> Edit: (Tom Robertson) Improper insult removed.


I feel you were treating all like a child by shouting in all caps.


----------



## FTA Michael

wreck said:


> EXACTLY! VOOM was in breach of contract. Dish had really no recourse. I *do* believe that Dish *OWES* us a replacement for that bandwidth though. They are promising over 100 channels by year end -- I think that is fair.


If Voom was in breach of contract, Dish had/has lots of options. It can renegotiate a new contract, which is what I hope it's doing now. Or it could shrug and continue the status quo without one. Or it could do what it apparently did - sever its business relationship with Voom.

I'm really unhappy about the loss of these eye-candy, commercial-free channels. I really hope that Dish and Voom work out a new deal to bring them back.


----------



## aloishus27

FTA Michael said:


> If Voom was in breach of contract, Dish had/has lots of options. It can renegotiate a new contract, which is what I hope it's doing now. Or it could shrug and continue the status quo without one. Or it could do what it apparently did - sever its business relationship with Voom.
> 
> I'm really unhappy about the loss of these eye-candy, commercial-free channels. I really hope that Dish and Voom work out a new deal to bring them back.


I second that!


----------



## moman19

Let's all calm down. I hope Jason is correct and that the backfill will be more compelling. However, with that said, if E* would communicate to the community what the ultimate intent is, perhaps there wouldn't be so much angst. I'll bet that many who are calling to quickly unload Ultimate will just as quickly call back to request the "new & improved" tier. 

I'm sitting tight for now and I'll bet the backfill comes quickly. Much of this frustration might have been avoided with better communication.


----------



## harsh

FTA Michael said:


> I'm really unhappy about the loss of these eye-candy, commercial-free channels. I really hope that Dish and Voom work out a new deal to bring them back.


+1

There will always be a place for commercial free content whether HD or not. So many of the other HD channels that we lusted after have become overrun with commercial advertising that one must begin to wonder why we have to pay for it.


----------



## Paul Secic

Paul Secic said:


> I was going to dump Ultimate until I got to this post. I want to see MGMHD. My attendant likes EquatorHD, but I know she'll miss UltraHD.


They beat me to it. I e-mailed [email protected] and asked to downgrade to HD Essentials and add HBO:eek2: :eek2: Do we get some kind of refund?? Dish removed all VOOM Chanhels.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Being a DIRECTV customer, I never watched Voom. When it was a stand alone subscription, it sounded interesting, but the lack of fresh content disturbed me.

I know there are some people who really liked the channels, just as every channel has their fans. 

Now lets continue this discussion remembering that we are all members here talking about DBS which we all enjoy. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Ron Barry

Ok guys... I know there is a lot of people frustrated over this given the number of threads spawned on this topic. Fuses seem to be getting a little short so lets try and keep the posts focused on topic, avoid the yelling, and let everyone voice their opinion. I know there are a lot of Voom fans out there that are upset.. Nothing wrong with that.. So voice your constructive opinions and respect others and all will be cool... Enough said.. back on topic.


----------



## Schizm

Personally I'm waiting for an uplink activity report that shows the VOOM channels are really deleted from the system before I downgrade.


----------



## Paul Secic

HDG said:


> As much as they repeated programing, they could just as well have put up a test pattern 24/7.
> 
> I do agree, when it was good, it was super good ... but just how many times can you watch the same episode of Journeys of The Heart - Peru ... or Montreaux ... or Style Me, Rachael?
> 
> I'm inclined to think that Voom brought this on themselves ... and even if E* doesn't really have our best interests at heart, for once they've done good by their subs.


VOOM killed themselves by being cheap.


----------



## Taco Lover

Schizm said:


> Personally I'm waiting for an uplink activity report that shows the VOOM channels are really deleted from the system before I downgrade.


This doesn't count?


----------



## jimborst

twehrle said:


> I can't believe the trade off we got for removing some of those Voom channels, was The Weather Channel and cartoons in HD. That was a waste. Why do those channels even need HD?


When I first read that DirectTv had the Weather Channel in HD I thought what a waste of HD, but yesterday I put the HD version on my HD TV and the SD version on my SD TV. The graphics are so much better, now I know that the studio shots (from what I've seen) are not HD yet but I was impressed yesterday, and I NEVER watch the Weather Channel!


----------



## Dicx

wreck said:


> My math says + 20 - 15 = + 5 (with more MAINSTREAM on the way)


I liked 15 + 20 = 35


----------



## Schizm

Taco Lover said:


> This doesn't count?


guess I missed that. I was under the impression, from previous posts, that they were still uplinked but have been removed from the guide tables.

crap


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> On the one hand, the only way to get Voom back (if it stays) is to switch to the one cable company that picked it up... which isn't an option for most folks.
> 
> On the other hand, for some people Voom was the differentiator between Dish and DirecTV... so it will be interesting to see how this affects the churn.
> 
> I'm not going anywhere, but I was with Dish before they added Voom in the first place. IF I were a newbie who joined specifically because of Voom, my thought process might be different.


VOOM was good for a few months, then I noticed repeats. I admit I liked FilmfestHD.


----------



## wreck

VOOM was like TW's "Video On Demand" --- you could tune in ANYTIME and see the same program you wanted to watch!!! (No need for a DVR)


----------



## Taco Lover

Schizm said:


> guess I missed that. I was under the impression, from previous posts, that they were still uplinked but have been removed from the guide tables.
> 
> crap


Yeah, I read that too. Some say they are still there. I don't know for sure.


----------



## stol

GrumpyBear said:


> I can tell you one thing, give me back FlimFest, and they can keep the Fishing Network. I mean come on, what deal did they have to make, that forced them to bring us that Channel. I will miss FilmFest


I only had FilmFest, HDNET, and HDMOV in my favorites list. That sucks that they removed FilmFest. Fishing Network? Why not Bowling Network? Or the 24/7 curling channel?


----------



## Henry

Paul Secic said:


> VOOM killed themselves by being cheap.


Hear, hear.


----------



## Paul Secic

Teagore said:


> I have read some posts stating that this might be the death of voom. after doing some research I'm not so sure. if you go to the rainbow media web page and click on the voom logo, you get taken to their main page about voom. on the left side they show their most recent press releases (stating some things i was not aware of) to sum up they:
> 
> 1. have a deal with amazon.com to "make nearly 50 titles from its extensive library of high-definition content available for purchase on DVD on-demand through Amazon.com."
> 
> 2. They have a deal with "sky satellite" which i guess is big in Europe as part of their "Continued Global Expansion"
> 
> 3. Pretty much the same as #2, but in Norway.
> 
> 4. Not on that page but they also have that iotv thing.
> 
> now, a couple things here. now that voom is dropped by E*, would amazon still want them? lets assume that not that many people had voom on E* to begin with like E* says, is them being dropped hurting them that much financially? I'm sure being given the boot doesn't help voom regardless, but maybe it's not so bad for them as we think. especially if they make some sort of comeback with E*. If E* really doesn't want them anymore, period, then i assume they are gong to sell their 20% stake in voom. Who would buy? oh, fyi, on voom's page they still have E* as a carrier of their programming. doesn't necessarily mean anything but...


All of who will be bored to tears within months.


----------



## Presence

Anybody who believed RaveHD was repetitive obviously was not paying attention.


----------



## Hound

grog said:


> The poll shows one thing.
> 
> Almost 30% of those polled are ready to leave due to this issue, myself included.
> 
> Dish can take that to the bank!


For niche programming, 30 
percent is very high. If the Cablevision numbers of $1.4 million E* HD subs are correct, there are about 420,000 really mad subs right now.

With the holes in E*s sports programming, E* canceled subs right in the middle of live spanish soccer season. Very unthoughtful and rude.


----------



## dbconsultant

Need another category. Yes, I'll miss them but mad enough to switch to Direct? Doubt it since they will both be the same eventually.

Very bummed that they will be going away. We really liked some of the shows like World Heritage. 

It gets old hearing people say, "I don't watch them, so I'm glad Dish took them away." I won't be watching the fishing channel but I wouldn't want it removed when I know others will watch it.


----------



## aloishus27

Just went to Voom's website, Dish logo is no longer up.


----------



## clyde sauls

Frankly I think this a ploy by Dish. I think they will be added back when Cablevision gives in to Dish demands. Remember Lifetime and sure there has been other channels that were removed. Then added back when Charlie got his way.


----------



## Henry

clyde sauls said:


> Frankly I think this a ploy by Dish. I think they will be added back when Cablevision gives in to Dish demands. Remember Lifetime and sure there has been other channels that were removed. Then added back when Charlie got his way.


You may be right, clyde. Only time will tell.


----------



## wreck

clyde sauls said:


> Frankly I think this a ploy by Dish. I think they will be added back when Cablevision gives in to Dish demands. Remember Lifetime and sure there has been other channels that were removed. Then added back when Charlie got his way.


Possibly so! Dish has NO leverage if they merely "threaten" VOOM with removal. Dish also loses it's leverage if they tell *us* it's a "ploy".


----------



## jrob

Voom was the reason I went with dish...They were made for hd...Now Dish is just like every other satellite and cable company- offering commercial channels on so-called hd...


----------



## phrelin

clyde sauls said:


> Frankly I think this a ploy by Dish. I think they will be added back when Cablevision gives in to Dish demands. Remember Lifetime and sure there has been other channels that were removed. Then added back when Charlie got his way.


Let's hope so. I could see some negotiations that include Rainbow owned AMC, IFC and Sundance with some VOOM channels. That would be a win over the long haul.


----------



## kariato

The following is only my opion. I think it is pretty simple. Direct TV is killing Dish on subscriber gains. The stock holders are upset that they only got 31K+. People wanted the mainstream HD so they decided to dump VOOM to reclaim there bandwidth for the channels people have been requesting. VOOM was not delivering additional subs. 

I don't believe it was VOOMS fault. Dish did not launch the birds soon enough to compete against Direct-TV in HD channel count. Dish marketing totally failed to promote Dish as an HD alternative source.:nono: They need to fire their AD agency before dropping VOOM. 

Dish will have more capacity in the fall so hopefully we will get VOOM back. But until then they better add decent a movie package to replace the loss of 4 ad free movie channels.


----------



## Presence

jrob said:


> Voom was the reason I went with dish...They were made for hd...Now Dish is just like every other satellite and cable company- offering commercial channels on so-called hd...


And there it is -- Dish now has the 'usual' lineup of HD as any other. It was VOOM that kept me from jumping ship during Dish's HD dry spell, but now jumping to another company will not be as painful channel-wise. Dish's superior DVR keeps me around now, but that is not near as compelling as unique HD channels.

I hope Dish and VOOM work something out to keep_ at least _the five they originally did leave up.


----------



## dms1

8arrett said:


> Didn't/Doesn't BBC have a price difference between "colour" and b+w when it comes to the licensing fee? Of course, that IS in the UK and not here. ;-)


Yes they do - 139.50 GBP (~$265) for colour and 47 GBP (~$90) for Black & White. They also very generously give you a 50% discount if you are blind! Just as an FYI though, it is the government, not the BBC, that set and collect the licence fee. There has been recent debate about whether a portion of it should be given to commercial rivals of the BBC to contribute to producing public-interest programming.


----------



## Chandu

Both VOOM and DISH are to blame here. VOOM did nothing to make their inventory compelling, while expecting same subscription revenue. DISH has done things in an extremely unprofessional manner here, with total disregard to their existing customer base. They've kept them in the dark, almost openly declaring that losing existing customers isn't that much of a big deal to them compared to gaining new customers.


----------



## Lincoln6Echo

TNGTony said:


> From www.dishlist.net
> 
> HD News Channel 9482 - the only REAL news channel on TV (not a political analyst or talk show in sight!). Remember CNN HN when they were headline news, that is what was removed here. Gee. Thanks again, Dish!


Quite frankly, I never really watched HD News because they didn't have on-site reporters, not did they have real-world guests/people reporting like FOXNews' 'ureport'. They just had anchors that read teleprompters, which repeated in a taped loop every hour or so, unless they had some breaking news, which is even suspect at that.

The reason FOXNews has the cable news ratings it has is because of its format.

The only thing that I liked about that channel was their HD weather maps. But now we get that with TWC-HD.


----------



## bjwilson

Jason Nipp said:


> In my personal opinion a lot of people are over-reacting and pulling the plug prematurely as the dust has not settled yet.
> 
> I see quite a few angry people, but having a knee-jerk aggressive response before E* has explained why and how their going to fill the void and make you happy again.... perhaps we should let the dust settle before getting bent out of shape.


The problem with this is that customers are still paying for HD Ultimate while we wait for E* to explan their game plan. In light of the situation, it would show good faith for E* to give us Ultimate (or what is left of it) free of charge until they either add more content to the tier or make other plans.


----------



## mlgreve

This is the reason why I chose to not sign a contract. My whole reason for going with Dish Network was because of the Voom channels. I could get most of their current channels with my cable company for about $70.00 a month. I am now paying $137.00 a month for a provider that really isn’t all that special. I’ll stick it out for a few more months. If they do not bring these channels back I will walk.


----------



## Texxen

Where are these 5 Voom channels they kept??

I'm ready to leave too.

Been with Dish for 10 years....


----------



## plasmacat

I sent an email to Dish complaining.
Here is their response:
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Effective immediately the VOOM HD line-up can no longer be viewed by our customers. DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We plan to use this opportunity to introduce exciting new HD channels offering a breadth and depth of programming that better complements our already robust HD offerings.
DISH Network understands it may feel like DISH is removing your favorite programming, but check out the comparable HD programming that is available!
VOOM Channel
Alternative Programming
Channel #
Monsters HD
Chiller (Only available in SD)
199
Rave HD
MHD
9469
Rush HD
Universal HD, HD Net
9427, 9422
Specific HD Movies
HD Net Movies, Universal HD, and Premiums in HD
9423, 9427

Then they list all those wonderful new "HD" channels we are getting.


----------



## calgary2800

I am so sick of the usual violence, drama, crime stories and shows on the regular mainstream HD channels that I found an escape in VOOM channels. I looked foward to coming home from the boring gray office and seeing some art in my life with Ultra and Gallery HD. Now what is out there to replace that. Nothing. 

I dont think Dish will ever bring any Voom channels back, there is simply too few of us who cared about them.


----------



## richiephx

bjwilson said:


> The problem with this is that customers are still paying for HD Ultimate while we wait for E* to explan their game plan. In light of the situation, it would show good faith for E* to give us Ultimate (or what is left of it) free of charge until they either add more content to the tier or make other plans.


Make a statement and drop to the essentials tier.


----------



## MadInMicanopy

There are three households here that are very angry about this. VOOM was one of our favorite channels. Unlike most other channels, it was informative, classy, beautiful and entertaining at the same time. It will be sorely missed. And we are disgusted that Dish not only dropped it without notice, but failed to list it on the Web site as one of the channels that had been dropped.

It's bad enough that Dish requires us to receive "local" channels that are, in fact, more than 150 miles away, when our true local stations are 20 miles away, but losing VOOM may well be the final straw. What do we get from Dish that we couldn't get elsewhere? Perhaps customer disservice, I think.


----------



## bjf2007

I emailed VOOM - Rainbow Corp. and got this email back today.

bjf

-----------

<<<<<To our viewers:

Thank you for contacting us about the VOOM HD channels. We truly regret that our world class suite of 15 high definition channels is no longer available to you and other Dish subscribers, but this decision was made solely by the Dish network and is something we urged them not to do. We hope that you will be able to view the VOOM HD channels again soon. If you would like to express your dissatisfaction with Dish's decision to drop the VOOM channels then please contact them directly. >>>>>


----------



## WanFittit

What is Dish trying to do - turn us all into brain dead morons? I spent most of m,y evening viewing in the Voom area - almost the only intelligent viewing available today. 

From the art insights on Gallery (I learned more than I have in years) to the glory of La Liga in HD.

Do the program meisters at Dish not comprehend that the Voom collection was the one thing that made them different from the herd, who peddle endless pap and trash. Bozos, it was a key competitive advantage, and now, unannounced, you've thrown it away.

For me there's no longer any reason to stay with Dish - just go with whoever offers the best deal. Is that what Charlie intended?

I am one seriously pissed off viewer.......


----------



## edw

WanFittit said:


> What is Dish trying to do - turn us all into brain dead morons? I spent most of m,y evening viewing in the Voom area - almost the only intelligent viewing available today.
> 
> From the art insights on Gallery (I learned more than I have in years) to the glory of La Liga in HD.
> 
> Do the program meisters at Dish not comprehend that the Voom collection was the one thing that made them different from the herd, who peddle endless pap and trash. Bozos, it was a key competitive advantage, and now, unannounced, you've thrown it away.
> 
> For me there's no longer any reason to stay with Dish - just go with whoever offers the best deal. Is that what Charlie intended?
> 
> I am one seriously pissed off viewer.......


I, too, spent most of my evening viewing in the Voom area. Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to dump DISH because of this (not to mention their total lack of respect to the customers in not notifying)...I am trapped in lease rental of two of their units (seemingly for the rest of my life!).

This whole thing really makes me sick!

Sincerly,....


----------



## scottchez

Since Dish no longer has a contract with Voom, 

what if DirecTV picked up the Best of VOOM 5 channel HD pack for say $3.99 a month kind of like a movie channel package.

Who knows maybe there in talks now . . . I bet directv could get the contract cheap.


----------



## mw1597

bjwilson said:


> The problem with this is that customers are still paying for HD Ultimate while we wait for E* to explan their game plan. In light of the situation, it would show good faith for E* to give us Ultimate (or what is left of it) free of charge until they either add more content to the tier or make other plans.


Agree... I just changed my programming package from Top 200 with Ultimate to the DishHD $29.99 package.


----------



## wreck

Doesn't Dish already own 20% of VOOM? There is a reason why Dish got the favorable court ruling in their suit with VOOM -- VOOM was in breach of contract. Sure, Dish could have been more up front with the subs -- but blame VOOM for this mess.


----------



## mlgreve

If direct TV picked up the Voom channels I would drop dish today.


----------



## julesism

yea, I went with the HD only package a month ago and was loving it. I was really enjoying the music/concerts on RAVE. I'm glad I filled up my HD with later with jules.... 

I'll take repeats in HD and channels that at least give 24/7 HD programming for us HD savy folk than a lot of the stretch-o-vision or black bar replacements that have show up.

I'll let the dust settle and see what happens in a month or so. If RAVE comes back and if we get MOJO, I'll stick around. I'm sure glad I'm not on a commitment!


----------



## kal915

mlgreve said:


> If direct TV picked up the Voom channels I would drop dish today.


I highly doubt Directv will ever get voom, since they're using it against Dish in their HD ads


----------



## unr1

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## unr1

makes me almost wanna pick up a SV8K


----------



## Chris Nick

mlgreve said:


> If direct TV picked up the Voom channels I would drop dish today.


I agree. I'm on the verge of downgrading to HD only to send a message. The good news is that I've spent much less time watching Dish since they took away the channels. Perhaps it was repetitive if you only watched 1 or 2 channels, but if you surfed between all of them, there was always something new and interesting. Voom was commercial free and also had quite a bit of programing in foreign movies, foreign sports, or shows about other countries. I found that very interesting and entertaining because it was different from the programming I find on Dish now.

On the positive side, perhaps this will force Voom to become more competitive with new programming and perhaps merge a few channels as others have suggested. I've also noticed that some of these new channels such as MGM have just as much repetition.

Maybe Voom will come back with 7 merged and revised channels and also make more of a commitment to new programming. There is a limited amount of HD programming out there, and if Dish wants to be the leader and differentiate themselves from Direct, they need to do something. The current pricing for the 200+ ultimate is too expensive for what you get.


----------



## mntwister

I am very upset to lose Monsters HD and Film Fest and Voom Movies. Monsters HD was my favorite channel on Dish, period. Film Fest showed Hollywood movies in HD that no other channel was showing in HD like Exodus, Man of La Mancha and some of the great westerns. Monsters HD recently showed all 5 Planet of the Apes films in HD, no one else has. Thank God I had my external hard drive.

Interesting though, I called Dish tonight to put my voice in on the matter and when he answered they asked me first thing if this was about Voom. Hmmmm.do you think they got a few calls today?

So I explained that while I appreciated all of the new well-known named HD channels they added, I tried them out for 5 hours today and much of what I saw was either:

1. 4:3 standard def image with side bars
2. Stretched image upconverted
3. A 4:3 image with the top and bottom chopped off to fit a 16:9 screen
4. Channels like Cartoon Network without a single high def program

I then said that this was a shame since we lost 15 24-hour true high def channels without commercials. I feel we lost more than we gained (though I am happy about MGM-HD and the Cinemax addition at least). 

He told me 2 things and this is where it gets to be a riot:

1. Voom channels were never true high definition, they were mpeg-2 channels, plus the fact they were not mpeg-4 took up too much room on their sat.
2. He proceeded to show me on the remote where you can change the aspect ratio of the new HD channels so the black bars of the 4:3 image are gone...the picture will then take all of my 16:9 screen

Can you believe it? Telling me to stretch the new high def channels and all their 4:3 standard def programming to fit my screen. I got upset, told him I was a videophile and knew better and said thanks for your help and ended the conversation. Then he ended with "perhaps someday we can offer Voom as an additional HD package"....(sure).

I do realize that there was a lawsuit and the court felt Voom had not lived up to its contract, but it doesn't take away the disappointment.

Just thought you guys would get a kick out that conversation. To sum it up, and this is my own personal
opinion, I am happy to get the new channels, but for me, I think we lost out in true high def programming.


----------



## grog

That is why I have TCM on tonight..

I don't want to watch 'stretch-o-vision' or little fish... but hey... if it's got to be stretched I might as well watch good programming. Back to watching TCM for me.

If I sit far enough away from my set even SD looks ok.  

I might get back into the Sirrus channels.. Elvis Radio for tomorrow!

Elvis is better than fish.


----------



## PTown

unr1 said:


> makes me almost wanna pick up a SV8K


From my readings the "dirty" SV8K's are still watching Voom.

Great unit BTW.


----------



## BillJ

I was unhappy with the loss of a few channels. I'm furious about the loss of the remaining channels. I particularly enjoyed RAVE and RUSH, but found good programs on serveral others too.

Is this a negotiating ploy or are they gone for good? If the latter, where is my price reduction?

I'll be registering my displeasure with E* today.


----------



## timfitz99

Wow... Monsters HD, FILMF and KungFU HD were the reason I chose Dish over DirecTV or FiosTV.

I'm seriously probably going to switch to Fios now, since I already have them for internet.


----------



## cwittig

Well, one of the primary reasons that I switched from D* to Dish was to get MonstersHD, since I am a huge horror film fan. I also enjoyed Film Fest. What keeps me there is the ability to archive to external drives. BUT if they keep playing around, I have no problem telling them to go get F'd and to pick up D or FIOS. IMHO


----------



## Jason Nipp

wreck said:


> Doesn't Dish already own 20% of VOOM? There is a reason why Dish got the favorable court ruling in their suit with VOOM -- VOOM was in breach of contract. Sure, Dish could have been more up front with the subs -- but blame VOOM for this mess.


No, but IIRC Dish bought R1 and Rainbow's uplink centers. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I recall from memory.


----------



## max1

I think you should have added a third question like had Voom but didn't watch it that much because of no new programming. For me I didn't watch Voom in the last 6 months. They had no new programs . How many times on HD Family did you see Flipper or Thunderbirds or UFO. Rave kept showing same concerts. In a way I am kind of glad they are gone am sure people will disagree but just my opinion. Max. I will not lose sleep over it.


----------



## DishBoy

One thing I have learned over the years with Dish is that you can't complain about anything. The moment you do it, they will hit you in the face and cut the service.

We used to have Voom HD here in Puerto Rico but some local folks started calling Dish with complaints about the weak signal from 61.5 satellite a couple years ago. What do you think Dish do to correct the problem? BANNED ALL VOOM CHANNELS for Puerto Rico subscribers and "PROBLEM SOLVED"!!!

They leave us with 5 HD channels for $10.

Now they use the same correcting principle for you guys in the cont. US. You complaint about Voom reruns, repeats, lack of new programming?

NO PROBLEM!!! 

Now you have 22 "new" "HD" channels with the same SD programming as their basic counterparts. The only thing you'll see in HD is the channel logo!

Not to mention TONS of commercials and adds.

In my humble opinion, we ended with less viewing options, so at the end we are the one who lose.

And remember don't complain with Dish unless you want your service CUT from it roots.

DishBoy.


----------



## salem66

What really aggravates me is that why would you take down 10 channels then leave 5 of the more "popular" Voom channels, then decide to drop those as well. Then you add 3 channels telling you about the great new HD offerings in SD. Why not put the HD demo channel back up with the aquarium. At least it was more interesting watching fish swim around then watching this godforsaken WTF channel. I WANT MY VOOM BACK!! Where is all the new HD when my net gain is +4.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Quite frankly, I could care less. I dropped to Essentials a month after getting Dish because I didn't see anything decent on the Voom stations, and I could live without NHL HD.

There have been MANY people over the last few months who have said "just cut off Voom and give me the rest of the HD I've been waiting for." Now it's happened and people are screaming that they want Voom back.

Too much whining.


----------



## Tom_P

Like I told to my friend Dishboy last Monday night , where did all this surprisingly "new" satellite bandwith is coming from? Yeap, from the Voom channels because Dish don't want to use their sats at full capacity. I knew something was going to happen.

Regarding the channels, Rush, Rave, Gameplay, Worldsport, and Worldcinema were part of my favs and most watched channels. Do you guys really think that I want to watch the freaking Weather Forecast on HD? or even freaking politics which I hate. In top of that 5-Max is just a Mirror is SD. We are talking about options, with Voom I had other options, and programs that I we can't see on another channels, like the Mountian Bike documentaries on Rush-HD. 

22-15= 7 A lot of noise and exitement that Charlie created with the supposed 22 new Hd channels. Just to hit is in the back of the head just hours later. 

I'm one of the few that has all HD channels in PR, I don't have other options because Cable HD is worst, but man I pay almost $120 a month and all this make me think about if it is worth....


----------



## TBoneit

HarveyLA said:


> One free premium movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc) should be added to HD Ultimate. Or, HD Ultimate should be shut down and its channels shifted to HD Essentials with no increase in price. Unless Dish acts to correct the imbalance, there will be a flood of cancellations (at least from Ultimate) and somebody just may file a consumer lawsuit. Also, so-called "HD" channels filled with commercials and upconverted 4x3 content are no substitute for REAL HD channels. I question whether there should be an extra fee to pick up HD simulcasts of existing channels at all. Can you imagine back in the 50's and 60's, asking people to pay for color TV broadcasts - the same programs they could pick up for free in Black and White?


One Big Difference B&W TV sets could pick up the color broadcasts and display them in glorious B&W and Color sets could show color shows in color and B&W in B&W.

No seperate channels needed for the Color signals. Thus one transmitter could feed both Color TV sets and B&W sets. Not like the situation we have where a SD TV can not tune or display HD and currently the stations are running two tranmitters. E* & D* & Cable/Fios have to provide seperate feeds for HD and SD requiring extra bandwidth capacity. Since they have costs associated with supplying a HD feed, Encoders, transponders, uplink centers, Shouldn't they charge extra for the extra costs they are incurring? Or should they just run in the red for years until everybody has HD sets or HD boxes capable of feeding a SD signal to a SD set?


----------



## FTA Michael

Multichannel News has a long rehash of well-covered ground: http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6561003

The only reason I mention it is that there's a sentence that would seem to block speculation that DirecTV would pick up the Voom channels.

"In its suit, Voom maintained it won't be able to secure a national footprint if Dish Network stops carrying its suite, because the other nationwide distributor, DirecTV, has indicated it won't carry Voom's 15 HD channels."


----------



## nmetro

Actually, based upon this response and the VOOM e-mail posted in this conversation, it may be that VOOM is not all that dead on DISH. When DISH dropped VI(ACOM channels a coupe years back, then sent out a similar message about alternated channels. They did the same for Lifetime Movies and again when they had the dispute with Time-Warner/Turner.

DISH likes playing this game of hardball, but many times when they do it they put their subscribers in the middle. There is an interesting article about DISH in today's Rocky Mountain News. One of the things mentioned is that they only gained 35,000 net subscribers last quarter. A short discussion about the AMC-14 failure, and the addition of more HD channels. They go on to say the DISh caters to low and moderate income groups, while DirecTV caters to the upscale income group (strange statement to say the least). VOOM is mentioned and Mr. Ergen just says "there wasn't a customer demand for them (VOOM)".

Read the article here:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/14/dish-comes-back-fighting/

While there is not much solace here, there is at least an insight to what is going on.



plasmacat said:


> I sent an email to Dish complaining.
> Here is their response:
> Dear Customer,
> Thank you for your e-mail. Effective immediately the VOOM HD line-up can no longer be viewed by our customers. DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We plan to use this opportunity to introduce exciting new HD channels offering a breadth and depth of programming that better complements our already robust HD offerings.
> DISH Network understands it may feel like DISH is removing your favorite programming, but check out the comparable HD programming that is available!
> VOOM Channel
> Alternative Programming
> Channel #
> Monsters HD
> Chiller (Only available in SD)
> 199
> Rave HD
> MHD
> 9469
> Rush HD
> Universal HD, HD Net
> 9427, 9422
> Specific HD Movies
> HD Net Movies, Universal HD, and Premiums in HD
> 9423, 9427
> 
> Then they list all those wonderful new "HD" channels we are getting.


----------



## Oblong Desoto

TBoneit said:


> One Big Difference B&W TV sets could pick up the color broadcasts and display them in glorious B&W and Color sets could show color shows in color and B&W in B&W.
> 
> No seperate channels needed for the Color signals. Thus one transmitter could feed both Color TV sets and B&W sets. Not like the situation we have where a SD TV can not tune or display HD and currently the stations are running two tranmitters. E* & D* & Cable/Fios have to provide seperate feeds for HD and SD requiring extra bandwidth capacity. Since they have costs associated with supplying a HD feed, Encoders, transponders, uplink centers, Shouldn't they charge extra for the extra costs they are incurring? Or should they just run in the red for years until everybody has HD sets or HD boxes capable of feeding a SD signal to a SD set?


It would save a fair amount of bandwidth if Dish replaced all of their STB's with ones that can downconvert HD to SD. Then they could eliminate the SD feeds from the satellites without affecting SD customers. The ViP receivers and DVR's have this capability. ROI would come in the form of reduced support costs for a smaller STB product line in the field.

-OD


----------



## tedb3rd

I dropped to essentials when it became available because I wasn't interested in the VOOM channels that much (with exception of EquaterHD). If I were in charge, I would have made VOOM it's own 'standalone' package for $X because there seems to be as many people who loved it as there are who could have cared less.


----------



## ZBoomer

kal915 said:


> I highly doubt Directv will ever get voom, since they're using it against Dish in their HD ads


Yeah, haven't you heard the D* ads making fun of VOOM? They are talking to a fictitious clerk at an ice cream store with all kinds of flavors "nobody wants", like the HD channels E* has (VOOM.)

Typical D* ads that are all FUD, but they play so much here on the radio I just want to scream sometimes. At least we have HD locals now so I don't have to hear those stupid D* commercials as well, man.


----------



## Deke Rivers

RasputinAXP said:


> There have been MANY people over the last few months who have said "just cut off Voom and give me the rest of the HD I've been waiting for." Now it's happened and people are screaming that they want Voom back.
> 
> Too much whining.


and you think its the same people??


----------



## TBoneit

But what cost for Millions of change overs. Not to mention the resistance to change by many.


----------



## Jon W

I just got off the phone with Dish and changed my programming from ultimate to essentials. No downgrade fee according to the CSR


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Highly unlikely for DirecTV to pick-up Voom for many reasons... primarily because they've had plenty of opportunity to do so, especially since launching their satellites last year for increased capacity. DirecTV has pretty much drawn a line in the sand saying they don't consider Voom worthy, so an about-face right now would actually be a forced admission that Dish was right... which could actually do more positively for Dish if you think about it! Also, since Dish did invest and has a partial stake (around 20%) in Voom, it is unlikely DirecTV would be able to negotiate such a deal without Dish knowing about it... in which case Dish could put the channels back up.

More likely Dish wants some, but not all, of the Voom channels... and apparently Voom is at the moment balking at that concept and would rather an "all or nothing" kind of thing. This would be at least partially supported by Dish not taking all 15 down on day one, probably hoping to keep 5 of them... so IF Voom wants to stay in business it behooves them to re-negotiate with Dish. Similarly it also behooves Dish to have a quick reaction here by either re-negotiating with Voom OR putting up more new channels in their place soon. And I mean soon, not "soon."


----------



## PBowie

bjf2007 said:


> So it appears one of the first channels deleted on DISH is WorldSport HD.
> 
> So no more Spanish Soccer La Liga in HD and they couldn't wait for another week
> or two until the season was over.
> 
> Thanks DISH!!!!!!
> 
> I may be going back to DTV since DISH doesn't have or care about MLB fans.
> 
> bjf


I agree, used to love watching La Liga
also I liked the monsters HD and equator

Im not happy with Dish trying to pull the wool over my eyes...


----------



## AVJohnnie

I'd urge all HD Ultimate subscribers to do what I just did and call DISH and drop to Essentials - You'll be saving an extra ten bucks a month and you won't have to watch those seven worthless bits of additional tripe. Charlie's promises (and he's really good at making & breaking those) of more HD in coming weeks (at least by the end of the year, well...maybe - but only if it's *compelling content*&#8230; yah'dah, yah'dah, yah'dah) doesn't get it for me anymore. If / when something worth looking at shows up again, then I'll up-tier again&#8230; But for now, I'm voting my feelings about their decision to dump Voom the best way I know how - with my wallet, which hurts Charlie's wallet, and that he listens to, far more-so than he does to his customers.


----------



## FTA Michael

Just got back from my local Wal-Mart, where all the HD screens were showing ... you guessed it ... Rush HD. 

I guess the Voom channels are valuable to _some_body.


----------



## alxlevin

If I were the CEO, I would drop VOOM as well for not honoring the contract and for the lawsuit. I think VOOM is more than 50% at fault. I will miss 3 VOOM channels, though. I switched to HD only and will stay.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Deke Rivers said:


> and you think its the same people??


Not all of them, but certainly some. I think there are more people upset about the manner in which Voom was removed from the service than the idea that they were actually removed.


----------



## peak_reception

> Mr. Ergen just says "there wasn't a customer demand for them (VOOM)"


Well no, that's right, not for $20 per month more which is how they were packaged.

Having already botched that particular price-point, DISH finally admitted the error by (recently) offering a trade-down HD tier which didn't include VOOM channels (the Essentials package). Having VOOM standing basically alone in the $20 HD tier basically doomed it because the $20 fee was/is too high!

*The lack of customer demand was for an excessive $240 per year HD charge, not for VOOM per-se, in my opinion. *


----------



## TP715

I noticed last night that all my Voom channels, for which I pay an extra $10 a month, have disappeared. That’s 15 advertisement free channels, broadcast in Dish’s best picture quality, HD 24/7, with art, music, travel, classic movies, foreign films, Akira Kurosawa movies, and other cultural material that seems to have been replaced by… the World Fishing Network. 

Am I missing something or does Charlie think I should pay $120/year to watch people fish… in low definition… full of advertisements trying to sell me a bass boat?

Oh, I notice that they also added MGM HD. From looking at the guide data that channel seems to have the worlds largest collection of 1 star movies.

I have to be missing something right? There’s got to be something else in the HD Ultimate package above the HD Essentials package now that Voom is gone?


----------



## Schizm

I just reduced to the Essentials package as well. The CSR didn't even ask why I was changing my plan. So I asked if the VOOM channels would be back. She stated many customers are calling with the same question. She didn't have an answer and "wasn't sure if Dish is doing anything to get them back."


----------



## lacruz

I just called to Dish and to my surprise, the CSR told me they have received an overwhelming number of calls from customers upset about the removal of the Voom Channels. The person said that Dish was seroiusly reviewing this issue and they were documenting each call.

So if you are upset by the removal of the Voom channels, CALL DISH and complain!!!


----------



## FitzAusTex

Voom.com has put up a message to Dish Network customers about the removal, and is urging us to contact E*. I just got an email response from Voom regarding my email to Voom about my displeasure about the removal:

Dear Viewer:

Thank you for contacting us about the VOOM HD channels. We truly regret that our world class suite of 15 high definition channels is no longer available to you and other Dish subscribers, but this decision was made solely by the Dish Network and is something we urged them not to do. We hope that you will be able to view the VOOM HD channels again soon.

VOOM HD Networks

http://www.voom.tv/ basically says the same thing with the addition of: "If you would like to express your dissatisfaction with Dish's decision to drop the VOOM channels then please contact them directly."


----------



## kstevens

I just dropped from the ultimate to essentials. Without the voom package, the 7 channels in the ultimate weren't worth $10. The csr didn't even question it. It sounds like they have been getting calls to drop the ultimate package all day long.

Ken


----------



## Stewart Vernon

peak_reception said:



> Well no, that's right, not for $20 per month more which is how they were packaged.
> 
> Having already botched that particular price-point, DISH finally admitted the error by (recently) offering a trade-down HD tier which didn't include VOOM channels (the Essentials package). Having VOOM standing basically alone in the $20 HD tier basically doomed it because the $20 fee was/is too high!
> 
> *The lack of customer demand was for an excessive $240 per year HD charge, not for VOOM per-se, in my opinion. *


You appear to be miscalculating.

DishHD Essentials was $10, Ultimate was $20. These are not additive numbers.

To get some HD, you pay $10 per month for Essentials... for all the HD you pay $20 for Ultimate.

So there's no way to consider that Voom was costing $20 per month.

Voom doesn't even cost $10 per month, since other channels are included in the Ultimate package (roughly 7 I believe now)... so while I too question the value of the Ultimate pack without the 15 Voom channels, I felt it necessary to correct the fuzzy math here.


----------



## mlgreve

Just got off the phone with Dish and I am thinking about canceling their service all together. The guy was an idiot. He started rambling on and on about all the new comparable Channels. And stated they were not going to bring Vooom back because they wanted to add new channels.

I am so glad I did not sign a contract.


----------



## dclaryjr

mlgreve said:


> He started rambling on and on about all the new comparable Channels. .


I got the same canned message as a response to my email to the ceo address. It's mostly a case of comparing apples to oranges imho.

I'm not, however, even thinking of dropping Dish just as some kind of gesture to express my disappointment. It's not going to get me EquatorHD back, and moving to D* (my only option--I wouldn't even consider Time-Warner) would probably mean cash outlay for a DVR, and, at least for the moment, I'd lose Travel Channel HD which I've been screaming for. Overall, I'm still happy camper.


----------



## moman19

Dish is doing themselves as well as their customers a huge disservice by remaining mum. Imagine how many subscribers must be calling in to drop down from Ultimate to HD Essentials. Why not? I'm contemplating doing the same thing, even though I think more new channels in the Ultimate tier are probably coming soon. (Define "soon".)

E* is doing this Bass Ackwards. The way this was handled only angers subs who discover that their favorite channels are suddenly gone without warning. Then to learn more or drop the tier, those same angry folks must call into Customer Service, listen to endless music on hold and then speak with a rep who may know less than they do about the future.

Why pay $10 extra for no VOOM + a buch of "new" HD channels not yet in HD? Charlie is not handling this in a smart way.


----------



## AVJohnnie

moman19 said:


> Charlie is not handling this in a smart way.


Subtleties and nuance have never been Charlie's forte - A bull in the china shop is more his way of getting things properly undone&#8230; :lol:

At this point in the game that we've had played on us, I for one cannot see why any Ultimate subscriber would not drop to Essentials. I just hope that those individuals who don't are not disappointed yet again. At the very least, don't hold your breath waiting and hoping that Charlie actually follows through with this latest promise of timely HD additions - something akin to the "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" strategy. 

If Voom (or anything else actually worth looking at) suddenly shows up again, I'll be among the first calling to jump back up to the Ultimate tier. Until then my measly little ten bucks a month less won't mean much to Dish's bottom line&#8230;but if enough subscribers do the same, Chuck just might start to notice&#8230; :sure:


----------



## cpcarter

What nonsense! The way it was handled was underhanded and sleazy. Despite Dish claims that they had to"replace unpopular voom channels with better quality networks" the net HD content is a loss. They deleted 15 VOOM and added 22 channels some of which are not even real HD. In addition there was no advance poll or even advance notice. I found out when I turned on my TV and found that my favorites list was blown away and all my timers for Rave concerts were gone! 
There isn't even a disclosure of a complete list showing what is gone and what is new. Voom has been spirited away like a "non-person". and a sneaky " Trust us it's better for you."

I just called to ask Dish what happened to the channels I pay for? They apologized and tried to convince me that the new channels content will be the same or better. I asked what new HD Music channels will carry the RAVE programming with live concerts, older Montreaux performances, Jools Holland, Basement, all HD and in 5.1? Long pause......."Well we didn't add any music channels but the Smithsonian has some nice programming". Right. When I mentioned leaving Dish now that they no longer carry the programming I wanted they apoplogized AGAIN and ofered to pass along my request. They also have a special email for VOOM comments:

[email protected]

I left Dish to go to Voom. I came back to Dish when they picked up Voom. I will now leave Dish again. Haven't decided on Direct TV or Comcast. At least I'll finally get PBS HD. So long Dish!


----------



## P Smith

Big Brother know better what you like or not. Don't speak up or you'll be cleaned. 
You already paid for BB decisions - keep watching your TV.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I wouldn't be jumping the gun on the downgrades at the moment. Yes it maybe to quiet, but you pay $5 to move down, and then the next thing you know they add channels you want to package you had, and then you pay the $5 service fee to move back to the package you had. Sounds like in haste some will be paying Charlie just as much or maybe more in the next month to move around between packages. We have seen these tactics over and over and over again, with all sorts of networks and channels. I don't see why some just don't wait for the dust to settle, before making all sorts of Rash decisions.


----------



## moman19

GrumpyBear said:


> I wouldn't be jumping the gun on the downgrades at the moment. Yes it maybe to quiet, but you pay $5 to move down, and then the next thing you know they add channels you want to package you had, and then you pay the $5 service fee to move back to the package you had. Sounds like in haste some will be paying Charlie just as much or maybe more in the next month to move around between packages. We have seen these tactics over and over and over again, with all sorts of networks and channels. I don't see why some just don't wait for the dust to settle, before making all sorts of Rash decisions.


No so. I've read reports from others on this forum that E* is (how nice!) waiving the $5 fee.


----------



## kstevens

Because if we don't make these 'rash' decisions, then DN will not get the message that we are pissed off. If enough people drop down to the lower hd tier, the loss of income should send them a distinct and definitive message.

Ken


----------



## jclewter79

GrumpyBear said:


> I wouldn't be jumping the gun on the downgrades at the moment. Yes it maybe to quiet, but you pay $5 to move down, and then the next thing you know they add channels you want to package you had, and then you pay the $5 service fee to move back to the package you had. Sounds like in haste some will be paying Charlie just as much or maybe more in the next month to move around between packages. We have seen these tactics over and over and over again, with all sorts of networks and channels. I don't see why some just don't wait for the dust to settle, before making all sorts of Rash decisions.


There is not nor has there ever been a fee to upgrade service, the $5 charge is only for service downgrades.


----------



## GrumpyBear

One thing I have noticed in all the VOOM gone, I am mad as hell comments. Is that only a handful of Voom Stations are being discussed. Alot of the Voom Stations have no supporters even here in the Mad has hell Voom is Gone support group. If the Voom Supporters can't support all 15, how/why should Dish carry a group of 15 stations, that replay shows for a month, and then repeat it every 6 months. 
Rave, FilmFest, Family(only for UFO, to torture the kids), WorldSport, but I watch more Fox Soccer and Setana, for real soccer, are the only stations I ever watched. Rave started to fade in viewing as they had added maybe 4 new hrs of content in the last year, Sirius Radio has taken over the Rave time. FilmFest did at least change their movies on a regular Basis. MonsterHD, I did watch the Planet of the Apes, and can't think of anything else in the last year. KungFu, not my thing, and as for the rest, great eye candy, really cool to show off the HD screen, but as for the shows, how many times can you watch the exact samething over and over and over again. Buddy of mine put it best, when thinking of most of the Rave Channels, think of Mick Dundee, turning on the TV and seeing an old Black and White opening of the "Lucy Show" saying yep thats what I saw, because thats how often the channels changed. 
Still think when the Dust settles Voom in some form will be back. Blame still rests on Voom for over extending, Channels for the numbers game, but forgetting they needed to actually have new content, every year or so. As long as HDNET channels stay, I will be happy. HDNET offers more


----------



## GrumpyBear

kstevens said:


> Because if we don't make these 'rash' decisions, then DN will not get the message that we are pissed off. If enough people drop down to the lower hd tier, the loss of income should send them a distinct and definitive message.
> 
> Ken


When it comes to DN(hey my initials) working on contracts with Networks, pressure from US has never, NEVER, NEVER, made a difference with DN. They make their deals when they make thier deals. Do whatever you feel makes you happy. Nice to hear they are waiving the fee though.


----------



## blooker68

What sleazy thing for Charlie to do. Equator and HDNet were really good. My wife is in the fashion business and her company subcribed to Dish just to get that channel. They cancelled today and were offered bribes of free this and that to stay.

I called and raised holy hell and was given HD for a month at no charge. The CSR said they all got the word this morning. 

I've always liked Dish until they did this.


----------



## bigpimp311

HDNet is not gone.


----------



## normang

blooker68 said:


> What sleazy thing for Charlie to do. Equator and HDNet were really good. My wife is in the fashion business and her company subcribed to Dish just to get that channel. They cancelled today and were offered bribes of free this and that to stay.
> 
> I called and raised holy hell and was given HD for a month at no charge. The CSR said they all got the word this morning.
> 
> I've always liked Dish until they did this.


Near as I can tell, HDnet, which was never a part of Voom is not gone.

And if you ever owned a business, and trying to make a profit, you may actually be making decisions routinely that someone is not going to like. There are reasons this happened, and near as I can tell, they are pretty good reasons. Like mediocre programming, slews of repeats, hardly anything new. Breach of contract, etc...


----------



## wingnut1

The only one I'm really upset about is Rave. I did watch Monster HD once in a while and Film Festival I believe it was called, but never got into the other Voom channels.


----------



## AVJohnnie

bigpimp311 said:


> HDNet is not gone.


At least not yet.  But considering what happened to Voom, can't help but wonder what might disappear next&#8230; :sure:


----------



## jrob

What the voom channels did is offer an alternative ...They had a variety of programs that you couldnt find on regular channels...They were made for HD and not full of commercials and upconverted content like the "new" HD channels...Also the dish statement about removing less popular channels to make room for the new channels.....Fishing?????


----------



## phrelin

blooker68 said:


> I called and raised holy hell and was given HD for a month at no charge. The CSR said they all got the word this morning.
> 
> I've always liked Dish until they did this.


Well, trying that in the On Line Chat" didn't work. I began by explaining my upset in the blank on the web page, then pressed the button. Here's the transcript of the exchange that followed:


> CSR: Thank you for choosing Dish Network the leader in HD and DVR. I will be happy to assist you today. Please give me 2-3 minutes to access your account and review the information you have already provided.
> CSR: I am very sorry to hear that. I would be happy to assist you.
> CSR: In order to launch 22 of the most popular HD channels we replaced some of our lower rated HD programming.
> CSR: · Equator HD (ch. 9471), Kung Fu HD (ch. 9479), Monsters HD (ch. 9481), Rave HD (ch. 9470), Rush HD (ch. 9476)
> CSR: In the coming weeks, we will launch additional new HD channels as we are committed to delivering our HD customers over 100 HD channels in the coming months.
> Me: Yes, how is that going to help me with the loss of the 15 VOOM channels, and why did you specifically mention 5?
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: Not all Voom channels were removed.
> CSR: Only the these five.
> Me: Yes they were. All are gone.
> CSR: Ok.
> Me: If they add some additional channels, fine, but right now $10 a month is excessive for UltimateHD.
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: Please give me 2-3 minutes to research this.
> CSR: We understand your concerns. However, we are excited to announce the addition of 22 new high definition channels to the dishHD programming line up which brings our total count of HD channels to 81. This new programming will provide you additional top rated programs like The Weather Channel HD, Disney HD East, ESPNews HD and Cartoon HD. In addition, we will be adding even more high definition channels over the upcoming weeks as DISH Network grows to over 100 national HD channels over the coming months
> CSR: Is there anything else I can do for you?
> Me: Look, these new channels are fine, but they don't replace RAVE for instance because no music channel was added.
> CSR: Ok.
> Me: And you haven't done anything for me.
> CSR: DISH Network continues to provide the best HD experience for our customers, and in doing so, we constantly listen to our customers and evaluate the channel line ups within our HD packages. At times, this requires us to replace the lower rated channels in order to provide room to expand our HD channel lineup with brand new channels.
> CSR: I apologize for any inconvenience.
> Me: But no reduction in the price of UltimateHD?
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: There is no change in the price of HD.
> CSR: Is there anything else I can do for you?
> Me: But you haven't done anything for me.
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: I'm sorry you feel that way.
> Me: Me too.
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: Can I answer anything else for you?
> Me: No.
> CSR: Ok.
> CSR: Thank you for using Dish Network Live Chat. Have a great day.


I know he was cutting and pasting the party line. But he really didn't know that 15 channels had been removed. Maybe I'll call a CSR, but I hate the time it takes and our cat keeps playing with phone cord.:lol:


----------



## peak_reception

HDMe said:


> You appear to be miscalculating.
> DishHD Essentials was $10, Ultimate was $20. These are not additive numbers.To get some HD, you pay $10 per month for Essentials... for all the HD you pay $20 for Ultimate. So there's no way to consider that Voom was costing $20 per month.Voom doesn't even cost $10 per month, since other channels are included in the Ultimate package (roughly 7 I believe now)... so while I too question the value of the Ultimate pack without the 15 Voom channels, I felt it necessary to correct the fuzzy math here.


HDMe, with all due respect, the math was not, is not, fuzzy. You write, "So there's no way to consider that Voom was costing $20 per month." Tell me then, if you wanted the VOOM suite of 15 HD channels, how much would you have to pay per month and per year? The only and complete answer = $20 per month and $240 per year. No fuzzy math. The price-point was too high. It doesn't matter what other (few) channels were included in Ultimate alongside VOOM. It doesn't matter that the first of tier of HD was already built onto a $10 platform. *Bottom Line = If you wanted (past tense) VOOM then you paid $20 per month and $240 per year.*
p.s. even if one considers that the new Essentials package effectively reduced the price of VOOM as a $10 add-on to that, the Essentials tier was only added recently. By then the damage was already done with the overall $20 HD package coming in too high to begin with, including VOOM. In my opinion that was a miscalculation. Just my opinion but the addition of Essentials seems to confirm it. And now hardly anyone has a reason to stick with Ultimate unless they start adding to it real quick.


----------



## Presence

What exactly are the extra seven HD channels in Ultimate vs Essentials? And do you lose the waiver of the DVR fee (or whichever fee it is) for no longer having the top package?


----------



## peak_reception

Presence, as it stands now the remaining channels on Ultimate are: 

MGM, Smithsonian, World Fishing, Universal, HDNet Movies, NHL & NBA.


----------



## lpmiller

you know, it's not like this should be a shock to Voom. It's not like they haven't been warned about this for awhile, and it's not like dish hasn't been complaining about the lack of new content on those channels (much like most of the people in here). Sure, there are channels I'll miss (though I don't believe they are gone forever) and sure, Dish could have at least warned US about it, but this really shouldn't be a shock to anyone who had been following it, and Voom was asking for it.


----------



## JayS

Been saying they should drop VOOM and use the space for better HD for some time now. As long as they follow through and add more mainstream HD I'm fine with it.


----------



## Schenley

Presence said:


> What exactly are the extra seven HD channels in Ultimate vs Essentials? And do you lose the waiver of the DVR fee (or whichever fee it is) for no longer having the top package?


I was wondering this too.

I believe they are:

.UltimateHD
.MGMHD
.WFNHD (World Fishing = WASTE OF BANDWIDTH)
.NHLHD (Only good for another couple of weeks til the cup is hoisted)
.HDNet Movies
.SmithsonianHD
.NBA TV


----------



## booger

If they would bring back the five that stayed on the longest I would be fine with this move. MonstersHD I really enjoyed. Chiller is a joke when compared. IMO of course.

I thought they had made the right choice until they dropped the last 5 Voom channels. Maybe they will return....


----------



## DJ Lon

Finally heard from Charlie:

Date: Thu 15 May 2008 03:29:13 PM EDT 
From: CEO of Dish Network <[email protected]>
[ Add to Address Book | Block Address | Report as Spam ] 
To: <masked> 
Subject: RE: What about VOOM?

Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Effective immediately the VOOM HD line-up can no longer be viewed by our customers. DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We plan to use this opportunity to introduce exciting new HD channels offering a breadth and depth of programming that better complements our already robust HD offerings.

DISH Network understands it may feel like DISH is removing your favorite programming, but check out the comparable HD programming that is available!

VOOM Channel Alternative Programming Channel # 
Monsters HD Chiller (Only available in SD) 199 
Rave HD MHD 9469 
Rush HD Universal HD, HD Net 9427, 9422 
Specific HD Movies HD Net Movies, Universal HD, and Premiums in HD 9423, 9427

Also check out the following exciting new channels that will be available in the DISH HD Package!
ABC Family HD (DISH Network Ch. 180) 
Biography HD (Ch. 119) 
Bravo HD (Ch. 129) 
Cartoon HD (Ch. 176) 
Cinemax 5 Star (Ch. 381) 
Cinemax HD West (Ch. 380) 
Comcast Sports Network Bay Area HD (Ch. 419)* 
Comcast Sports Network New England HD (Ch. 435)* 
CNBC HD (Ch. 208) 
CNN HD (Ch. 200) 
Disney HD East (Ch. 172) 
ESPNews HD (Ch. 142) 
Hallmark Movie Channel HD (Ch. 187) 
MGM HD (Ch. 385) 
Sci Fi HD (Ch. 122) 
Smithsonian HD (Ch. 374) 
Tennis Channel HD (Ch. 400) 
Toon Disney HD (Ch. 174) 
Travel Channel HD (Ch. 215) 
USA HD (Ch. 105) 
Weather Channel HD (Ch. 214) 
World Fishing Network HD (Ch. 396)

*Launch Wednesday, May 14

Watch for even more high definition channels over the upcoming weeks as DISH Network grows to over 100 national HD channels by end of year. For additional information please visit HYPERLINK "http://www.DishNetwork.com/HDupdate" www.DishNetwork.com/HDupdate. Thank you for being a DISH Network customer.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to www.dishnetwork.com or reply to this email.

Sincerely,

DISH Network E-Care

Your message:

Dear Mr. Ergen:

I am writing you, as a valued Dish Network subscriber, to express my disapproval with the dirty double-cross you pulled yesterday on removing the VOOM channels.

Not a word mentioned on your web site. Not a word mentioned on last night's Tech Forum.

Well...since you have removed 10 of the VOOM channels I watched on a regular basis, I want you to explain to me what kind of value I'm now getting for my extra $10 a month I'm paying for HD Ultimate. World Fishing Network? You've got to be kidding! MGM HD? I scrolled through the guide and there's not ONE movie I'd like to see. Never watch hockey or basketball so NHL & NBA are a waste of my time. The only channel in Ultimate I appreciate now is HDNet Movies. The $10 difference in price between Essentials and Ultimate really doesn't make sense with 10 fewer channels in Ultimate now. That Ultimate price really needs to drop down without these VOOMs in the mix unless you are adding 10 more comparable (meaning: same content/commercial-free) channels very quickly. Otherwise I guess I'm going to have to reconsider if paying $10 a month extra for HDNet Movies is worth it.

In short, I guess I am in the minority. Channels I watch have been replaced with channels I do not.


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## Stewart Vernon

peak_reception said:


> HDMe, with all due respect, the math was not, is not, fuzzy. You write, "So there's no way to consider that Voom was costing $20 per month." Tell me then, if you wanted the VOOM suite of 15 HD channels, how much would you have to pay per month and per year? The only and complete answer = $20 per month and $240 per year. No fuzzy math. The price-point was too high. It doesn't matter what other (few) channels were included in Ultimate alongside VOOM. It doesn't matter that the first of tier of HD was already built onto a $10 platform. *Bottom Line = If you wanted (past tense) VOOM then you paid $20 per month and $240 per year.*
> p.s. even if one considers that the new Essentials package effectively reduced the price of VOOM as a $10 add-on to that, the Essentials tier was only added recently. By then the damage was already done with the overall $20 HD package coming in too high to begin with, including VOOM. In my opinion that was a miscalculation. Just my opinion but the addition of Essentials seems to confirm it. And now hardly anyone has a reason to stick with Ultimate unless they start adding to it real quick.


The problem with this kind of logic, though, is that it can be equally applied to other things. One could argue that HDNet Movies, for instance, costs $20 per month since there is only one way to get it. HBOHD costs $15.00 per month too, since you only get that one channel by signing up for HBO. That's why I said it was "fuzzy math" because it is being selectively applied.

I don't disagree that the HD Ultimate is now an overpriced package with the removal of the 15 Voom channels... but I do disagree that Voom cost $20 per month. The package that contained Voom cost $20 per month but also gave you another 40 or so HD channels to go along with them... so it is rather disengenuous to say that Voom alone cost $20.


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## truthseeker

Wow, they got rid of the channels I watch and replaced them with children's channels and more 'news' channels because (they say) they weren't popular.
Apparently I missed the poll, or they are somehow watching me.
I vote they stay.


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## Hey Now!

I'm really going to miss Monster HD, World Cinema, Rush, & Equator. Without the Voom package it really makes a lot of the alternative options for programming an option since they all pretty much have the same channels now. Like many others have said Voom, despite a poor job with new programming, did offer a lot of alternative programming you can't watch anywhere else.


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## DarkSol

I'm quite happy Voom is gone. I had been planning to drop Ultimate package as the NHL comes to a close. I see this as an opportunity to dodge the service fee (that I never liked.) I've been waiting for FX HD, which if it ends up in Ultimate, I'll move back up.


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## himini

GrumpyBear said:


> One thing I have noticed in all the VOOM gone, I am mad as hell comments. Is that only a handful of Voom Stations are being discussed. Alot of the Voom Stations have no supporters even here in the Mad has hell Voom is Gone support group. If the Voom Supporters can't support all 15, how/why should Dish carry a group of 15 stations, that replay shows for a month, and then repeat it every 6 months.


By this logic one would have to support every single channel offered by Dish at any given time to be able to complain about any one channel ever being dropped. Just because we don't watch all 15 channels doesn't mean we can't be upset about the entire Voom package being dropped without warning. What's more, I bet if you look carefully at all the comments by all the different individuals you'd eventually see all 15 channels being mentioned. It goes without saying that some were more popular than others, and it would be weird to have an individual thread here about each Voom channel for Pete's sake.

It boggles my mind when the folks on this forum get mad about other people's viewing preferences and then whine about all the whining. If people are upset about Voom being dropped, why not let them express that opinion here without being chastised? Do you want the forum to only be positive comments about how great Dish is? Just accept that forums like this are always going to have more negative than positive; it's the nature of the beast.

If you're not upset about Voom being dropped, then simply don't make a comment in this thread. Other people are upset, and this is where they'll say so.


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## GrumpyBear

himini said:


> By this logic one would have to support every single channel offered by Dish at any given time to be able to complain about any one channel ever being dropped. Just because we don't watch all 15 channels doesn't mean we can't be upset about the entire Voom package being dropped without warning. What's more, I bet if you look carefully at all the comments by all the different individuals you'd eventually see all 15 channels being mentioned. It goes without saying that some were more popular than others, and it would be weird to have an individual thread here about each Voom channel for Pete's sake.
> 
> It boggles my mind when the folks on this forum get mad about other people's viewing preferences and then whine about all the whining. If people are upset about Voom being dropped, why not let them express that opinion here without being chastised? Do you want the forum to only be positive comments about how great Dish is? Just accept that forums like this are always going to have more negative than positive; it's the nature of the beast.
> 
> If you're not upset about Voom being dropped, then simply don't make a comment in this thread. Other people are upset, and this is where they'll say so.


This is a Thread to keep all topics about Voom in one spot. This isn't just for those upset and Mad that Voom is gone. When you do read through the postings, its mainly a group of 4-6 channels. I will miss FilmFest, but not the end of the world. The 3 HDNET channels have had more to offer than VOOM for sometime now. The Travel Channel has been great to have in HD, as well as the Smithsonian Channel. These 2 offer a wide varity of show that were spread out between to many VOOM Channels, I bet what I watch today, wont be on a Monthly recycle 6 months from Now. The ONLY real thing I will miss about VOOM is the Commerical Free shows. I wont miss seeing the same show being shown everyday for a week to a month straight, just to watch it recyle in 6 months, and do the samething all over.


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## salem66

Well I for one will miss ALL the Voom channels. Why would anyone be glad they are gone if they were not paying extra for HD Ultimate anyway? Why would anyone be happy that a whole suite of HD channels were removed w/o notice or warning? The way this was and is being handled by Dish PR is bush league in my opinion especially with the lack of quality HD channels we received in return...errr...WFN! I have not seen one HD program on that channel since it went live. One of the greatest draws that Dish had over Direct in my opinion was the unique programming. Now Dish is just a carbon of Direct. Monsters HD was a great channel...Chiller stinks!! All the Voom channels had value and were true HD 24/7 people!!! The Weather Channel HD studio does not even go live until June. So tell me Charlie, what are you going to replace VOOM with? RFDTV HD? Fox News HD? I'd rather watch Rock Dennis 24/7 then see Greta's grill in HD. No offense to Rocky Dennis...;^)


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## peak_reception

HDMe, I see what you're saying, and I don't entirely disagree, but I'm not just talking about VOOM. I'm saying that the whole HD package, as originally set forth, including VOOM, was overpriced @ $20 per month/ $240 per year extra. That price point I believe caused a lot of dissatisfaction and people took it out on the VOOM channels for the reasons I'll describe shortly.

So Charlie and others at DISH singled out VOOM as being the culprit of disinterest by customers. Maybe that was easier than accepting that they misjudged the price point? Or they've been reading this forum where people expressed dissatisfaction about the repetition of programming on VOOM (true), the lack of new original programming (also true) and how the 15 channels should really be consolidated into half that number (especially true). But in my opinion the real dissatisfaction was with the $20 per month / $240 per year price tag for ALL HD together in a lump, including VOOM.

The eventual addition of HD Essentials was a welcome and overdue correction. People stopped complaining about VOOM so much after that because, in the best American Way, they now had a *choice* to not have to pay for the VOOM suite (which is how they were looking at it even though there were other channels in there too). VOOM was the culprit in many peoples' eyes and that's why I also focused on it in my post which brought your objection.

Blaming VOOM now for customer dissatisfaction and/or disinterest is to me a smokescreen which hides the real reason VOOM is being dumped; The dispute with Cablevision (who deserve blame too, yes). 
*Dumping ALL of VOOM*, if done for the stated reason (alleged customer disinterest) *is simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater!*

Even worse, if true, is dumping VOOM as a bargaining chip to bring VOOM and/or Cablevision to heel in contract renegotiation. To put DISH subscribers in the crossfire like that would show blatant disregard for those who watched and valued (and paid for) the VOOM Suite.

Worst of all was the way in which it was done with no advance notice and no honest explanation for why it was done (i.e. in all likelihood the carriage dispute). Just two silent midnight massacres which wiped out ALL Voom programming while in the daylight trumpeting all the new national HD channels.

Give with noisy fanfare with the one hand while taking away silently with the other while pretending that you're only giving. And how thankful we DISH subscribers should all be for the largesse of new HD being bestowed on us (much of which isn't even HD yet).

To me it all smacks of arrogance and disregard for the customer.

For those of us with AT-200 and Ultimate HD, this whole trade-off was a raw deal and we know it. No amount of splashy PR trumpeting "22 New National HD Channels!!!" is going to change the fact that on balance we actually lost HD content. Lots of it! Others fared better, particularly those with the 29.99 dishHD package. I would switch to that package immediately if I could but I'm in a bundle deal through AT&T which may not allow it without losing a considerable bundle benefit.

Something tells me that the price of that standalone dishHD package will be going up in price significantly before long too.

But back to my original point... most people dissatisfied with the price of the HD package as originally constructed were blaming VOOM for it even though there were other channels in there too of course. So in essence, rightly or wrongly, VOOM was viewed as the reason the price as 'too high' at $20 per month and $240 per year, so that became -- effectively -- the cost of viewing VOOM content.

That's why I say that the cost of VOOM was $20 per month and $240 per year. Because that was both literally what it cost in order to view VOOM content, and also because that was figuratively what most people saw as the problem in the high cost of the HD package; i.e. the cost of VOOM.

The introduction of HD Essentials helped. It helped so much in fact that it makes this move to abrubtly and completely dump VOOM all the more galling and perplexing.

One last point. The Ultimate package is now dramatically overpriced without VOOM. Did they think all of this through or was it rammed through in a rush in order to blunt the bad news on the quarterly report (only 35,000 new subscribers compared to 275,000 for DirecTV!) ?

Lots of questions and very few answers. Communication with customers does not seem to be a DISH company priority to say the least.


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## BlueD1am0nd

Dish Network May Get Voom BACK!!!!!
YES!

Apparently they've had a change of heart and are trying to work things out to get the VOOM channels back. They need the VOOM bandwidth changed to one that uses less space. It seems very possible and may happen within a very few months if they can work it out.

I'm staying with Dish Network for 6 more months to see if they can get it done. If they can't, then there truly is no reason for me to stay with them. I can probably get a better package deal with COMCAST since I already use them for my high speed internet and use VONAGE for my phone line. The only thing that was keeping them all separate was Dish Networks VOOM channels.


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## Presence

peak_reception said:


> overpriced @ $20 per month/ $240 per year
> 
> the $20 per month / $240 per year price tag
> 
> at $20 per month and $240 per year
> 
> VOOM was $20 per month and $240 per year.


Do you think we cannot do simple mathematics or something? Wow, that gets annoying.


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## peak_reception

yeah, i was (over) emphasizing my point. you can be annoying too  

p.s. you're welcome for the answer I gave to the question you asked a few posts back.


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## calgary2800

You dont know what you got till its gone. Equator HD, Gallery HD, Ultra, Treasure had such relaxing and different shows it was a total breath of fresh air for your mind and eyes. The mainstream is full of pollution in the way of violence, crime, and problems that it was nice to get away and view the finer things and places in life.


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## justinblue

World Fishing Network??? Yeah, cutting edge HD right there....not! I can't believe they would cut out Gallery, Equator, Rave, Treasures, World Sport and Film Fest for Toon Disney and standard def stretch fishing....Please bring back at least the best of voom. We don't need Thunderbirds HD but these other channels were superior to anything out there currently...


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## himini

calgary2800 said:


> You dont know what you got till its gone. Equator HD, Gallery HD, Ultra, Treasure had such relaxing and different shows it was a total breath of fresh air for your mind and eyes. The mainstream is full of pollution in the way of violence, crime, and problems that it was nice to get away and view the finer things and places in life.


Well said. I wholeheartedly agree-- Voom was classy. Not enough explosions for the masses I fear. And don't get me wrong-- I love explosions.


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## PTown

All is not lost. In my continued diverse reading only 2 of the Voom channels have been replaced by the "we're sorry screen". The rest continue to broadcast as normal -epg info to the people who have not so nice firmware on their various misc. boxes.
Perhaps they've just been dropped from the legit lineup as a scare tactic to Voom, otherwise you'd think it'd all be cleared up for bandwidth right?


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## StacMaster-S

BlueD1am0nd said:


> Apparently they've had a change of heart and are trying to work things out to get the VOOM channels back. They need the VOOM bandwidth changed to one that uses less space. It seems very possible and may happen within a very few months if they can work it out.


You know how they could really save bandwith with VOOM? Turn it all into on-demand downloadable content through the broadband connection. I mean it makes the most sense... they'd only have to upload all the shows once and never touch it again since all the programming is just reruns month after month.


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## Kman68

AVJohnnie said:


> At least not yet.  But considering what happened to Voom, can't help but wonder what might disappear next&#8230; :sure:


 Dish lost its first court battle against Fox. Lost its court battle with TiVo. Waiting to lose it's second court battle against Fox. Lost VOOM. VOOM and Dish DVR are the only reason many subscribers have remained loyal to Dish for so long. Without VOOM, does the DVR matter? The next thing to disappear might be Dish Network.


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## GrumpyBear

StacMaster-S said:


> You know how they could really save bandwith with VOOM? Turn it all into on-demand downloadable content through the broadband connection. I mean it makes the most sense... they'd only have to upload all the shows once and never touch it again since all the programming is just reruns month after month.


Voom, should take a peak at, Smithsonian, MGM, Travel and HallMark Channels to see how things should be done. If Voom Doesn't want to look at individual networks, they can just look at 3 HDNET channels to see how to run a group of Channels.


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## StacMaster-S

I agree, I was way more worried about losing HDNet than ANY of the VOOM channels. Actually have some shows on there I watch regularly...


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## samchecker

Honestly, in a year and a half with Dish I can count on the fingers of two hands the number of times I've watched VOOM channels. Those channels always struck me as being like HD test channels...kinda like Discovery HD Theater. That is, they existed so you could show off your cool new HDTV, but there wasn't a lot of "there" there.

If this means they're going to light up stuff like FX soon in HD, this tradeoff is totally worth it.


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## GrumpyBear

StacMaster-S said:


> I agree, I was way more worried about losing HDNet than ANY of the VOOM channels. Actually have some shows on there I watch regularly...


The 3 HDnet channels would be a real loss. 
Between HDnet, Smithsonian, Travel, and MGM, I don't think we have lost much, with the Drop of Voom. We will just have to see how soon these stations start Repeating the same shows over and over and over again.


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## Stewart Vernon

GrumpyBear said:


> Voom, should take a peak at, Smithsonian, MGM, Travel and HallMark Channels to see how things should be done. If Voom Doesn't want to look at individual networks, they can just look at 3 HDNET channels to see how to run a group of Channels.


I believe the National Geographic channel was buying HD content from Equator. So much for not having valuable content. IF Voom is repeating, what will National Geographic be when they air it?

Similarly... Many movies that have been on MonstersHD or FilmFest have found their way to HDNet Movies eventually... so again, if Voom is repeating what is HDNet doing?

Voom is/was not without its faults... but too many are quick to jump on the Voom pouncing while not realizing much of what they say equally applies to their favorite channels.

For the record too.. some of the MGMHD content has run previously on Voom as well... and MGMHD isn't even doing 5.1 surround like Voom was.


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## Stewart Vernon

GrumpyBear said:


> The 3 HDnet channels would be a real loss.


What is the third HDNet channel?

I have HDNet and HDNet Movies


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## GrumpyBear

HDMe said:


> What is the third HDNet channel?
> 
> I have HDNet and HDNet Movies


HDTheater(9421)
HDNet (9422)
HDMovies (9423)


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## Jason Nipp

GrumpyBear said:


> HDTheater(9421)
> HDNet (9422)
> HDMovies (9423)


HDTheater is a Discovery Channel. Used to be Discovery HD Theater, but when they brought Discovery Channel HD online they renamed it.

It is not a Cuban owned channel of the HDNet family.


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## FitzAusTex

GrumpyBear said:


> Voom, should take a peak at, Smithsonian, MGM, Travel and HallMark Channels to see how things should be done. If Voom Doesn't want to look at individual networks, they can just look at 3 HDNET channels to see how to run a group of Channels.


 The channels you listed are repeating THE HELL out of their programming, too. They just repeat it differently than Voom. Voom does a daily repetitive 3-6 hour blocks/loops. After 24 hours, the Voom channels are on to other programming in 3-6 hour blocks/loops. The channels you listed spread their repetitive programming out more throughout the day, but you're likely to see the same stuff a few days later, and actually less likely to see the same stuff a few days later on Voom.


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## GrumpyBear

Jason Nipp said:


> HDTheater is a Discovery Channel. Used to be Discovery HD Theater, but when they brought Discovery Channel HD online they renamed it.
> 
> It is not a Cuban owned channel of the HDNet family.


Ah thanks. I thought it used to be called something else. But with all the changes this month, just got lost in translation.


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## GrumpyBear

FitzAusTex said:


> The channels you listed are repeating THE HELL out of their programming, too. They just repeat it differently than Voom. Voom does a daily repetitive 3-6 hour blocks/loops. After 24 hours, the Voom channels are on to other programming in 3-6 hour blocks/loops. The channels you listed spread their repetitive programming out more throughout the day, but you're likely to see the same stuff a few days later, and actually less likely to see the same stuff a few days later on Voom.


Yeah you are right, takes 3 days and what do you know Smithsonian, repeats the same episode for one show in a different timeslot. Granted they show the same TV Show, but they have lots of different episodes of that show during the day, instead of repeating the same episode over and over again. Lets see if in 6 months from now, they are still repeating all shows al a Voom style.


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## AVJohnnie

I was hard pressed to find much real HD showing on the new and improved in the late night time slots last night. Found loads of commercials and stretchy-vision though. Which leads me to ask, of the new 22, how many are crud-mmercial free like the Voom channels were? I wonder if Charlie managed to work a kick-back deal for putting up all this new commercial slot airtime? :lol:


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## ddobson

I honestly think one of the primary reasons that VOOM DBS failed was the time was just a little too early. Not enough people had HD sets at the time. I honestlyt think it was a very good idea... ALL HD ALL THE TIME. Only paying for the programming you want, all in HD...

Maybe the time is right now to go back to the DBS theory with an ALL HD format... It might just work today. Honestly if Voom was available and they had a few of the National HD's to go along with their programming. I might be interested in it as my sole service. I can get my HD locals off the air. Give me Voom plus 15 or 20 other (the best) channels, all in HD. I am very interested... A total of maybe 40 or 50 ALL HD channels from 1 provider with no shopping channels, no waste channels... Give me a fair price and I'm there.


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## GrumpyBear

ddobson said:


> I honestly think one of the primary reasons that VOOM DBS failed was the time was just a little too early. Not enough people had HD sets at the time. I honestlyt think it was a very good idea... ALL HD ALL THE TIME. Only paying for the programming you want, all in HD...
> 
> Maybe the time is right now to go back to the DBS theory with an ALL HD format... It might just work today. Honestly if Voom was available and they had a few of the National HD's to go along with their programming. I might be interested in it as my sole service. I can get my HD locals off the air. Give me Voom plus 15 or 20 other (the best) channels, all in HD. I am very interested... A total of maybe 40 or 50 ALL HD channels from 1 provider with no shopping channels, no waste channels... Give me a fair price and I'm there.


I think thats a great idea. I still don't think VOOM is dead on Dish yet. I see some revamping, and a few channels wont be coming back, the content will just be added to different channels. Maybe now VOOM will buy more episodes of the shows, people want to see.


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## BillJ

I sent an email to CEO yesterday protesting the sudden loss of VOOM plus no reduction in subscriber rates to compensate. I expected the canned response others have reported here but so far nothing. I wonder if that indicates all the calls and emails have E* re-thinking their action? Or maybe this was always just a negotiating ploy. Certainly their decision to cut VOOM with no warning to subscribers was dumb from a customer satisfaction standpoint.


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## FitzAusTex

BillJ said:


> I sent an email to CEO yesterday protesting the sudden loss of VOOM plus no reduction in subscriber rates to compensate. I expected the canned response others have reported here but so far nothing. I wonder if that indicates all the calls and emails have E* re-thinking their action? Or maybe this was always just a negotiating ploy. Certainly their decision to cut VOOM with no warning to subscribers was dumb from a customer satisfaction standpoint.


I sent an email tuesday morning after the first 10 went dark. I sent a 2nd email wednesday morning after the last 5 went dark. I got 2 replies yesterday at the same exact time. I bet E* is just a little behind on replying, hopefully due to a flood of emails on the topic.


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## riah

ddobson said:


> I honestly think one of the primary reasons that VOOM DBS failed was the time was just a little too early. Not enough people had HD sets at the time. I honestlyt think it was a very good idea... ALL HD ALL THE TIME. Only paying for the programming you want, all in HD...
> 
> Maybe the time is right now to go back to the DBS theory with an ALL HD format... It might just work today. Honestly if Voom was available and they had a few of the National HD's to go along with their programming. I might be interested in it as my sole service. I can get my HD locals off the air. Give me Voom plus 15 or 20 other (the best) channels, all in HD. I am very interested... A total of maybe 40 or 50 ALL HD channels from 1 provider with no shopping channels, no waste channels... Give me a fair price and I'm there.


The original VOOM DBS was an outstanding idea and failed for the same reason it failed on Dish No New Content!

I had an early subscription for about three months. By then I had seen all there was to see in High Def Content and since they were not adding anthing new there was no point in continuning a subscription.


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## eatonjb

i am coming in late here. but .. Voom should have taken a few chanels, merged them into a few less, but ohh well.. nothing major lost.. i liked the news channel tho..


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## dunkonu23

I'm a bit ticked. I liked Rave a lot. If it were not for Rave, I probably wouldn't have gotten back into Dream Theater. Oh, well. We'll see if they get Speed in HD. 

Scott


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## dbconsultant

PTown said:


> All is not lost. In my continued diverse reading only 2 of the Voom channels have been replaced by the "we're sorry screen". The rest continue to broadcast as normal -epg info to the people who have not so nice firmware on their various misc. boxes.
> Perhaps they've just been dropped from the legit lineup as a scare tactic to Voom, otherwise you'd think it'd all be cleared up for bandwidth right?


So, are you saying that you are still watching Voom channels? Which ones are you seeing still broadcasting?


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## Paul Secic

TP715 said:


> I noticed last night that all my Voom channels, for which I pay an extra $10 a month, have disappeared. That's 15 advertisement free channels, broadcast in Dish's best picture quality, HD 24/7, with art, music, travel, classic movies, foreign films, Akira Kurosawa movies, and other cultural material that seems to have been replaced by&#8230; the World Fishing Network.
> 
> Am I missing something or does Charlie think I should pay $120/year to watch people fish&#8230; in low definition&#8230; full of advertisements trying to sell me a bass boat?
> 
> Oh, I notice that they also added MGM HD. From looking at the guide data that channel seems to have the worlds largest collection of 1 star movies.
> 
> I have to be missing something right? There's got to be something else in the HD Ultimate package above the HD Essentials package now that Voom is gone?


MGMHD just 2 to 3 movies per day. 15 per month. They should put it in AT 250 to attract interest.


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## JackDobiash

I noticed they finally aired some HD content on 5-Max, GalaxyQuest last night was, anyway (may have been mentioned already)


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## Paul Secic

FitzAusTex said:


> Voom.com has put up a message to Dish Network customers about the removal, and is urging us to contact E*. I just got an email response from Voom regarding my email to Voom about my displeasure about the removal:
> 
> Dear Viewer:
> 
> Thank you for contacting us about the VOOM HD channels. We truly regret that our world class suite of 15 high definition channels is no longer available to you and other Dish subscribers, but this decision was made solely by the Dish Network and is something we urged them not to do. We hope that you will be able to view the VOOM HD channels again soon.
> 
> VOOM HD Networks
> 
> http://www.voom.tv/ basically says the same thing with the addition of: "If you would like to express your dissatisfaction with Dish's decision to drop the VOOM channels then please contact them directly."


It's a trick! They won't add new content. When Ii first got HD I didn't have a choice. I was glad they changed prices. $20.00 was too high. If VOOM comes back I hope it's in a tier by itself.


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## Chandu

PTown said:


> All is not lost. In my continued diverse reading only 2 of the Voom channels have been replaced by the "we're sorry screen". The rest continue to broadcast as normal -epg info to the people who have not so nice firmware on their various misc. boxes.
> Perhaps they've just been dropped from the legit lineup as a scare tactic to Voom, otherwise you'd think it'd all be cleared up for bandwidth right?


Which firmware version do you have, and is it with the 622 or 722 box? And, which 2 VOOM channels are you not able to watch even with this older firmware version?


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## P Smith

He play with some facts; VOOM info removed from system tables, so any Dish receiver will not have access to them, regardless model and FW version; streams of the VOOM channels (video and audio ) still transmitting on same places - there is a space for speculation: FTA HD 8PSK receiver could show VOOM with user defined channels if those channels unencrypted.


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## SWTESTER

FitzAusTex said:


> The channels you listed are repeating THE HELL out of their programming, too. They just repeat it differently than Voom. Voom does a daily repetitive 3-6 hour blocks/loops. After 24 hours, the Voom channels are on to other programming in 3-6 hour blocks/loops. The channels you listed spread their repetitive programming out more throughout the day, but you're likely to see the same stuff a few days later, and actually less likely to see the same stuff a few days later on Voom.


Voom repeated shows during 24hr. block then repeats them about 6 days later for the whole month. I will miss Monsters and Equator, but thats about it since we now have CNN-HD. FoxNews-HD :eek2:


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## FitzAusTex

SWTESTER said:


> Voom repeated shows during 24hr. block then repeats them about 6 days later for the whole month. I will miss Monsters and Equator, but thats about it since we now have CNN-HD. FoxNews-HD :eek2:


I dont believe, at all, that the same schedule was repeated 6 days later. Generally, a different episode # of the same show may have aired 6 days later, but not generally the same episodes of the same shows.


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## kstevens

On kung fu and monster, they definitely kept repeating the same shows over and over. I can only stand watching the Executioners and the Heroic Trio so many times.

Ken


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## GrumpyBear

Paul Secic said:


> MGMHD just 2 to 3 movies per day. 15 per month. They should put it in AT 250 to attract interest.


You may want to recount the MGMHD movies, Lots more than just 2-3 aday, and even the next 3 moves are 3-4 star movies. Heck over the weekend looks like just 2-3 movies repeat, from now until Monday. Granted the 3-4 star Bando Movies are followed by a couple of bad movies, but even the bad movies aren't all that bad. Going to watch Roller Boogie for laughs tomorrow.
There are several moives on this weekend I will DVR as they are better than 3 star and you just don't see them anywere else.

Here a link to the MonsterHD guide for the Month
http://www.monstershd.com/content/Adobe/monstershd_schedule.pdf
See how few repeats they have for the Month.


----------



## LtMunst

Monsters and KungFu have always been my favorite channels on Dish. Recently, though, I had noticed they reverted to a 2 movie a day lineup. Even I was getting impatient with my old standbys. That being said, life will be hard if I can't torment my wife with Samurai movies anymore. :nono2:


----------



## jeslevine

Though Voom had a lot of repeat content, the cnn, cnbc, and other hd duplications definitely are not worth the 20 bucks a month more to me. I have the everything package, so I still get the premiums in HD, but until they get some unique HD content, they can keep what they have. Voom, for better or worse, was the only reason I kept the HD package. Now they have saved me 20 bucks a month


----------



## gumball69

bjf2007 said:


> So it appears one of the first channels deleted on DISH is WorldSport HD.
> 
> So no more Spanish Soccer La Liga in HD and they couldn't wait for another week
> or two until the season was over.
> 
> Thanks DISH!!!!!!
> 
> I may be going back to DTV since DISH doesn't have or care about MLB fans.
> 
> bjf


Yeah.. It is such a shame. La Lige in HiDef rocks. Poor... very poor decision. I will search hi and lo for this hi def spanish league and just soccer in general.


----------



## grog

I am sick to death of the 'repeat issue' so I will address the state as I know it.

To have pure HD content means the 'content' must be there if you are to have a wide viewing option over time.

Let's look at Rave in detail shall we...

Rave is based on a few programs which if feeds from.

1.) Soundstage
2.) Rave HD Concerts ( Montreux Jazz Festival .... etc... )
3.) Later With Jools Holland
4.) Beautiful Noise

Let's start with Soundstage. I am a huge fan of Soundstage. The PBS series information may be found here:

*1.) Soundstage*

http://www.pbs.org/wttw/soundstage/

Soundstage does not produce much content but what the do produce is fantastic.

The Soundstage season is short and right now it is over until next fall!

The featured artist right now are:
http://www.pbs.org/wttw/soundstage/featured.htm

* Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
* Lifehouse
* Daughtry
* John Fogerty

See there were only four artists this last season. Watching Soundstage non-stop for a month you can see everything that has been produced.

The artist archive shows some of the artist that have been on the PBS Soundstage in the past.

http://www.pbs.org/wttw/soundstage/archive.htm

Over the years there are a lot of Soundstage events I did not see. PBS does not re-air any Soundstage event. So if you miss it you are out of luck.

I have been with Dish Network now for many years. A number of years ago I decided to move to HD from my multiple 301 setup. Went with two VIP 622's and now I could watch Soundstage anytime. I have watched Soundstage a great deal over the last few years. After my massive heart attack and triple bypass I spent a lot of time watching TV and Soundstage was something I really enjoyed.

Right now I will not be able to see Soundstage on PBS-HD until it airs again next fall.

9469 MHD also shows Soundstage but not as wide a selection as Rave did.
You have to compare the schedule of Rave against the MHD showings but it is easy to see... Rave was all about Soundstage.... MHD just has the series as part of it's bigger lineup.

Still I am fine with MHD in this respect. I have my timers set to record all of Soundstage from MHD.

So let's recap.. Soundstage is shown 1st on PBS and later on Rave. MHD also buys into the feed.

The reason we see a lot of repeats on Rave for Soundstage is the collection is not large enough to prevent it.

MHD will take care of the Soundstage need provided they keep the show in their lineup. I am happy on this one. 

*2.) Rave HD Concerts ( Montreux Jazz Festival .... etc... )*
Many of the Rave HD concerts show up on HDnet as well as MHD.
We are fine here as well. No issue. 

*3.) Later With Jools Holland*
This is the big hole we have right now. No one in the U.S. has picked this show up. Great show... I hope it gets picked up by someone. Even on BBC would be fine since that is where it came from. I would love of it to be in HD but I would take it on A.M. radio if that was all it was played on!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/later/

The reason for repeats here is also simple. There have been only 200 episodes of the show so far.

*4.) Beautiful Noise*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beautiful_Noise_(TV_series)

Beautiful Noise is an HD television music performance series produced in Canada by Original Spin Media. The series premiered on Rave HD in the United States in the summer of 2006. The programs debuted in Canada on Sun TV in January of 2008. The series is filmed at Toronto's Berkeley Church performance and event venue. Production for Season 3 ran March 31-April 7 2008.

Reason for the repeats.. The show has only been on since the summer of 2006!
Only three seasons of shows.

*HD and content*
Just look at Rave and the HD content, while not vast is still a great archive of music. HD is still a 'new thing' for the most part and as such you will not be able to go back in time and pull up concerts that are in high-def format. They just did not exist. The newer material is there just not a lot of it.

So what about the other Voom stations.. Why the repeats... If you look at them close enough you will see the same issues. I have seen a lot of great movies from the 50's and 60's that have been remade for HD. They can not just simply pull out a 50's movie and wow it's HD now. It takes a lot of work to reprocess / restore the movie to HD.

I guess they could have shown SD shows to fill the gaps but then it would be just like the fish network! :lol: Everything on Voom was full HD or nothing at all.

Show me one HD channel that does not repeat content and does not show SD programming.


----------



## jclewter79

> Over the years there are a lot of Soundstage events I did not see. PBS does not re-air any Soundstage event. So if you miss it you are out of luck.


Well, maybe they do not repeat during the offseason but, I know that PBS was wearing out that Tom Petty concert out earlier this season. A great show, with plenty chances to see it.


----------



## TechnoCat

I'm guessing I won't really miss Voom. I would have thought I would, as I like Monster. But it's apparently been gone for three days and I didn't even notice! The channels I apparently actually watch - HDNet, HBO, TNT?TBS? , etc, haven't gone away. MGM looks like a great addition and I'll give the others a chance.


----------



## timfitz99

Well, just downgraded to America's Top 100 and HD Essentials with locals. Dropped HBO, too. 

Monsters HD, Filmfest, International, and Kung Fu were the reason I got Dish in the first place.

And to all the people talking about repeat programming on Monsters, they'd recently got a helluva lot of new, quality stuff in the queue.


----------



## truthseeker

As a new transferee from DTV I am devastated.
I have all the possible subscriptions, and feel I ordered surf and turf and only got a potato due to 'popular demand'.
Thanks for the tip, I'll drop the "HD" package, and will most likely loose my deposit and go back to DirecTV as they now are superior in programming, satellite strength, and number of satellites.


----------



## Presence

Presence said:


> What exactly are the extra seven HD channels in Ultimate vs Essentials? And do you lose the waiver of the DVR fee (or whichever fee it is) for no longer having the top package?


One part of this was answered. Now, anyone know about the waiver and possible loss thereof?


----------



## h3dude

Ok, I've looked around and don't see the answer. Maybe it is a dumb question. On page 1 they said we were down to 5 VOOM channels, including RUSH HD and RAVE HD which were my favorites. 

On those two channels is just a DISH commercial now for the new additions... so I take it those 5 that were left are gone as well?


----------



## FitzAusTex

h3dude said:


> Ok, I've looked around and don't see the answer. Maybe it is a dumb question. On page 1 they said we were down to 5 VOOM channels, including RUSH HD and RAVE HD which were my favorites.
> 
> On those two channels is just a DISH commercial now for the new additions... so I take it those 5 that were left are gone as well?


Yep. they dropped 10 at midnight EDT (roughly) Tuesday morning, and dropped the last five 24 hours later.


----------



## hackwriter

We LOVED the Voom channels, especially Equator and Rave. LOTS of good music concerts on Rave. I'm going to write to E* and complain. I don't care about the movie channel or any of the sports, but Gallery was occasionally interesting and we watched Equator and Rave a LOT.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

As someone who liked Voom, it pains me to say it but... in various forums it seems that many people did not notice the first 10 takedown... nor the 5 takedown the next night... and many folks didn't know until this weekend reading the forums. Sadly, that tends to indicate they weren't watching the channels very often if they didn't notice for 5+ days.


----------



## calgary2800

I was too busy watching the NHL and NBA playoffs constantly to know Voom had been gone. I usually only have time to unwind and watch the voom channels on weekends anyway. 

Is there any channels out there that can show this old fart the world of art like Gallery Hd and Ultra hd? Where I can see the art world without going to the musemum now?


----------



## hohlraum

world sport would have been awesome if any of the new episode flags or program info was maintained. they just stopped mid summer last year. none of the spanish league soccer/football guide info was correct. I didn't watch any of the other stations that were removed fortunately. if they drop monsters and kung-fu though they can kiss my 455, i'll leave.

edit: jesus they removed all the voom stations? you gotta be kidding me *moans*


----------



## tnsprin

Presence said:


> One part of this was answered. Now, anyone know about the waiver and possible loss thereof?


DVR fee is waved for AEP, so if you keep that, the DVR fee will still be waved.


----------



## BSD23

I want Rave back!!!! I loved the concerts in HD


----------



## digitald

Well almost a week now that they are gone & its very apparent a least at my house they are sorely missed. I was cruising around last night for some HD content & boy was the lineup weak there is a huge gap now between MHD & Discovery!!! I think no matter how they want to paint the picture bottom line is VOOM took Charlie to court & this is how he deals with it. Like the spoiled kid with the football, he has his little fit goes home & nobody plays!! I called & complained about the value of the ultimate pack right away & after two days & four different people finally got someone that was capable of a logical thought & actually agreed with me that removing 15 24/7 5.1DD channels & replacing with 17new channels not the 22 they keep touting was not a fair exchange. She offered me $10/month credit for 10 months which is good but still would like my programming back. To all you VOOM bashers out there show me any cable type station HD or not that doesnt repeat shows & movies regularly, don't believe there is any. I guess if you like repeats of repeated tv shows these new channels are great especially on ABC Family showing repeats of original hd shows in sd( Gilmore Girls, What I Like About You). I probably will not switch my service because I like the DVR too much & could not live w/o the over the air recordings but if D adds local antenna to their new units I could be gone.


----------



## salemtubes

My missive to Dish:

Hello,

I am furious that you have capriciously and arbitrarily removed the Voom channels. Don't bother sending me a canned e-mail. I've read it on the Internet, and it is a crock of you-know-what. Stating that you're the HD leader is a blatant fabrication that a six year old could see through. I guess that you're trying to convince yourselves that you're the HD leader, but that ship sailed a long time ago. DirecTV is clearly superior at this time. Voom was your only advantage relative to DirecTV.

I really miss Rave, Treasure, Equator and Monsters. And please don't bother sending me an e-mail that offers your current channels as alternatives. They aren't in the same league and present way too much SD content.

Of course, I'm sure that you're not about to lower your prices even though you're carrying far less HD content. You've added stations that claim to be HD; however, they carry SD content with sidebars or in glorious (NOT) stretch-o-vision. Voom was all HD all of the time. Why should I stay with Dish? DirecTV now offers more HD content at a lower price.

Regards,

S**** M*********


----------



## JBrown07

This makes me very against satellite right now. I just got an HD TV and was going to sign up for Dish due to the VOOM HD channels. Now I will just stick with cable


----------



## WilliamsBMW

BSD23 said:


> I want Rave back!!!! I loved the concerts in HD


Gotta agree with that. Rave HD was the only reason I subscribed to the Voom
channels.

I noticed that ExpressVu carries Oasis Treasure Equator & Rush. If they carried
Rave then I would be trying to buy a system.

Is there anyway to get RaveHD?


----------



## inkahauts

JBrown07 said:


> This makes me very against satellite right now. I just got an HD TV and was going to sign up for Dish due to the VOOM HD channels. Now I will just stick with cable


Dish is still way better than Cable. So is Directv. Either kills cable.. And in a couple of years, they will probably both have the same HD channels except for a couple exclusives on either side, although they will both still be far above cable...


----------



## RocketNJ

MHD vs Rave.

Rave audio was far superior.


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## billyfury

I sent my first complaint yesterday via email. I am a top 200 ultimate HD sub with 622 and 722. I have been with dish for over 10 years. I upgraded an 811 to the 722 in Jan so I could get all the HD content, so I am 5 months into a 24 month commitment. I received the canned email response to my email inquiry from yesterday that has been quoted several times in this thread. I called twice today. The first time to inquire how much an early disconnect was going to cost me. The second time I asked what exactly the procedure was, dates, timing, return of equipment. etc. When asked, I explained how I really felt cheated and lied to. I said I understood that they had the right to change channels and prices during my 24 months but that did not make it right. I explained, in a very measured tone, that my net number of HD channels was down and that just because they call a channel HD does not make it so if it is upconverted content not in 16/9 and not created in HD as all the VOOM content was. I spent the most time on Rave, of all the dropped content, as did my 23 and 21 year old offspring. I explained that at the present time ABCFM, was showing an upconverted 1998 Parent Trap movie and CNBC was half way through an HD Select Comfort infomercial!! That took alot of spark out of her argument of how things had improved. I did not yell or rant and told her that I understood that she had a company line she had to toe but that I thought it was really important that her managers know there were many many subs like me that were furious, not only with what they did but how they did it. I told her that without the Voom channels, there was nothing, nothing that set Dish apart from DirectTV or Cable. I said that I did not care about the $173 early termination fee and that I would be changed even if I could not find the content I was now missing, out of principal alone. That is the point that she offered me a $20 per month credit for 10 months. I am not sure if this is a new thing or if it was because I have been with them for 10 years or because of the programing padkage I have or what. But I have not seen another poster that has been offered more than $10 for 10 months. So if you fit my profile try for it. Now I have 10 months. If Rave comes back fine I'll stay. If not or if Voom does end up elsewhere then I will go. A number of posters have made the point that Voom has failed to attract new subs, so that would be a justified reason to dump it. What is not know is how many will now leave without it.


----------



## kal915

RocketNJ said:


> MHD vs Rave.
> 
> Rave audio was far superior.


But MHD's picture quality is by far superior


----------



## calgary2800

I upgraded my equipment one week before the plug was pulled on Voom. Meaning I signed a new 24th month agreement! That was bad. Before that I had compared the prices of dish vs direct and direct was cheaper by 10-20 dollars a month and offered FOX in HD. 

But I had grown to really like Voom and CCTV9 the chinese channel and stayed. Now I am stuck with the carbon copy of Direct for more money. 

Most of the new channels is junk and not true HD, what is up with all these channels with the side bars. This is making my Plasma feel like my tube tv.


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## grog

MHD is not commercial free...
Still a good station no the less.
Not as good as Rave though...



kal915 said:


> But MHD's picture quality is by far superior


----------



## OneOfOne

why is it not surprising that seemingly all of the people who wanted the voom channels are posting here and they are in shock? as dish network said, they channels were not popular. I would be scared if I read that and thought they were. what does that really say?


----------



## paulman182

I'm a DirecTV subscriber, but I've often said I'd like to have Voom. 

Where were all you Voom viewers when people like me were being ridiculed on the forum for wanting it?

If I were Mr. Ergen, I'd have looked at the Internet forums and come to the same conclusion--not enough viewers to matter.


----------



## dbstv

These channels are still uplinked and there is activity on them


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## Richard King

If Directv were smart they would sign on with Voom NOW. I woud be there in a flash if they did. As things stand now, for programming that *I* want there's no difference between the two. From the pole that this thread is based on (currently 264/263 in favor of leaving) it appears that about 50% of those responding would make the move.


----------



## normang

Wow, now people are going to follow Voom around if it moved? I can recall the discussion when Voom was added to Dish, first it was cool, then within days, it repeats to much, nothing new, all the complaints that exist now, and here we are, its gone, and now people can't live with out it? 

If Voom has no where else to go, its either going be back if they supposedly meet contractual issues if I recall, or its gone forever, and its not coming back...


----------



## MarcusInMD

The new "HD" channels are almost worthless. The programming generally stinks. I would prefer to have the voom channels back if this is the best that Dish can do with other national channels.


----------



## James Long

How about a 5th answer to the poll?
"I'd be happy if DISH just reduced my bill by $5-$10 due to the loss of the Voom channels."

Voom has been quietly popular ... people popping their heads up to defend the channels against detractors for the past three years on DISH and prior years on Voom's DBS service. Others were constantly bashing Voom - some out of jealousy because _their_ favorite channel was not available. But the channels were there ... and they had their supporters.

Now the fee is there and the channels are not ... and I wonder how this affects people's opinions. Would losing Voom be more acceptable if you could keep the other "Ultimate" channels without paying for Voom?

That "I'm so mad I may downgrade" vote would split between those who want Voom back and those who just want to stop paying for the removed channels.


----------



## AVJohnnie

James Long said:


> How about a 5th answer to the poll?
> "I'd be happy if DISH just reduced my bill by $5-$10 due to the loss of the Voom channels."
> 
> Voom has been quietly popular ... people popping their heads up to defend the channels against detractors for the past three years on DISH and prior years on Voom's DBS service. Others were constantly bashing Voom - some out of jealousy because _their_ favorite channel was not available. But the channels were there ... and they had their supporters.
> 
> Now the fee is there and the channels are not ... and I wonder how this affects people's opinions. Would losing Voom be more acceptable if you could keep the other "Ultimate" channels without paying for Voom?
> 
> That "I'm so mad I may downgrade" vote would split between those who want Voom back and those who just want to stop paying for the removed channels.


For me it's not about the money, it's about the quality of both sound and picture - I haven't remained a top tier Dish subscriber for the last 10 years because I'm concerned about the money. I just can't believe that people can favorably compare these 22 replacements with the 15 Vooms that were dropped. When I called Dish to complain, I told them flat out that if I didn't start seeing new material that was of Voom caliber within the month, then I'm gone to Direct - period.

Everyone is currently saying that the two services are now just carbon copies of each other. But after checking it out I've discovered that's not true - at least not in my case. By switching, I'll immediately be getting more HD programming; particularly more HD locals than I presently get via Dish.

My biggest concern about switching services is over the differences with the DVRs - I know that Direct's DVR has plenty of issues, probably even more than what we've had to deal with on the Dish DVRs. But even-so, I'd be willing to tuff it out if it means more quality HD.

John


----------



## habe

I just signed up in January for the "Americas Everything" package + HD. I actually liked the VOOM channels as you atleast had 24/7 HD content ( I realize the issue of VOOM repeating the programming). In my opinion, the VOOM channels had the best HD picture quality on Dish.

What I'll miss;

RAVE

KUNGFU: I'm a big fan of the Zatoichi series from Japan. Can't see those anywhere else.

TREASURE: Treasure Divers

GALLERY: Concrete Canvas, Artland and Forgers Masterclass

EQUATOR: Ultimate Journeys, World Heritage, Keep it Green and Green Wheels.

So, five months after I sign up, Dish pulls the plug on VOOM and replaces it with some other channels, about 1/3 of which show very little HD programming. Hell, flyfishing is my thing but the fishing channel sucks!

Way to go Dish!

habe


----------



## larrysano

Richard King said:


> From the pole that this thread is based on (currently 264/263 in favor of leaving) it appears that about 50% of those responding would make the move.


No, if you read the poll carefully, you'll notice that of the 4 responses, 3 of them have to do with not caring about Voom. So actually, it's 397 to 266 in favor of those who apparently think Voom is disposable.


----------



## GrumpyBear

To many of the channels are still uplinked and the Channel Numbers are still active. Its just to early to push the panic button and think that none of the Voom is coming back. Nobody yet has posted a good defense or a love for all 15 channels. Its been posted here and other places look for Voom to be back in a MUCH smaller number of Channels, with all the content. IF Voom Supporters can't even support all the Voom Channels, its easy to see why Dish would drop the package, after the lawsuit over content, was over, and is now forcing Voom to step up. Voom should have stayed out of the Numbers game, hey we got 10, no 15, no 20.... Let the dust from the Content Law suit settle and we will see how Voom Reorganizes.


----------



## paulman182

GrumpyBear said:


> Nobody yet has posted a good defense or a love for all 15 channels. Its been posted here and other places look for Voom to be back in a MUCH smaller number of Channels, with all the content. IF Voom Supporters can't even support all the Voom Channels, its easy to see why Dish would drop the package, after the lawsuit over content, was over, and is now forcing Voom to step up. Voom should have stayed out of the Numbers game, hey we got 10, no 15, no 20.... Let the dust from the Content Law suit settle and we will see how Voom Reorganizes.


Voom was/is niche programming spread out over several channels. I doubt there are many people who watched them all with regularity, much as I pay for 250 channels or so in my package but personally watch only a handful in a given month.

However, for the three Vooms I'd watch, I would pay a reasonable amount for the whole package, given the chance.


----------



## GrumpyBear

paulman182 said:


> Voom was/is niche programming spread out over several channels. I doubt there are many people who watched them all with regularity, much as I pay for 250 channels or so in my package but personally watch only a handful in a given month.
> 
> However, for the three Vooms I'd watch, I would pay a reasonable amount for the whole package, given the chance.


I agree with that. Channels I would like back are FilmFest and Rave, and if they through in a couple of others, that would be cool and I would pay for it, I have the Everything packages as it is now. Personally I think this is a good thing for US and VOOM. VOOM will now focus on having more and more content, and instead of spreading out the shows over 3 channels it would be on 1 channel, ending month long repeat fests, that start over again in 6 months. Rave has is great, but it has been repeating all its shows for the last year or so. Still remember the 1st time almost 3 years ago, the Fleetwood Mac Concert Fantastic, watched it several times, then, and now if I just wait, it will be on again soon, just like so many of the concerts. It was easier to delete the concerts, knowing I will see them again, and again, and again. Granted now that they are gone, there are a couple I would like to undelete.


----------



## Malamute2k

habe said:


> I just signed up in January for the "Americas Everything" package + HD. I actually liked the VOOM channels as you atleast had 24/7 HD content ( I realize the issue of VOOM repeating the programming). In my opinion, the VOOM channels had the best HD picture quality on Dish.
> 
> What I'll miss;
> 
> RAVE
> 
> KUNGFU: I'm a big fan of the Zatoichi series from Japan. Can't see those anywhere else.
> 
> TREASURE: Treasure Divers
> 
> GALLERY: Concrete Canvas, Artland and Forgers Masterclass
> 
> EQUATOR: Ultimate Journeys, World Heritage, Keep it Green and Green Wheels.
> 
> So, five months after I sign up, Dish pulls the plug on VOOM and replaces it with some other channels, about 1/3 of which show very little HD programming. Hell, flyfishing is my thing but the fishing channel sucks!
> 
> Way to go Dish!
> 
> habe


Thank you for bringing the Zatoichi series to my attention. Blockbuster online (it's similar to Netflix) has the DVDs so I am going to rent some of them.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Voom will either be back or gone forever. I know that sounds obvious... but what I mean is... don't hold your breath expecting to see it on DirecTV. That ship sailed a while back when DirecTV adopted the mantra of "HD you've never heard of" to describe the Voom suite. They've had plenty of chances to take Voom, and you know Rainbow media would have loved to pick up another provider... but alas it wasn't to be.

So people who like Voom need to voice an opinion and hope that Dish and Rainbow can come to terms. I suspect some of those terms will revolve around WE, IFC, and AMC coming in HD from Rainbow... and perhaps some of the "old" Voom rendered unnecessary as a result of those channel additions. The "new Voom" may very well look nothing like the old Voom IF it comes back in some form.

I do hope to see some of it come back... but even as a Voom enjoyer, I can't argue for all 15 channels coming back. I see the need (as discussed in other posts) of maybe 5-7 of them + the WE, IFC, AMC channels coming on board in HD.


----------



## GrumpyBear

If you look at the last Quartly numbes, Voom wasn't bringing in new users by the Truckload. National TV channels, was bringing in new Users by the Truckload.


----------



## Paul Secic

inkahauts said:


> Dish is still way better than Cable. So is Directv. Either kills cable.. And in a couple of years, they will probably both have the same HD channels except for a couple exclusives on either side, although they will both still be far above cable...


I fully agree!


----------



## Paul Secic

normang said:


> Wow, now people are going to follow Voom around if it moved? I can recall the discussion when Voom was added to Dish, first it was cool, then within days, it repeats to much, nothing new, all the complaints that exist now, and here we are, its gone, and now people can't live with out it?
> 
> If Voom has no where else to go, its either going be back if they supposedly meet contractual issues if I recall, or its gone forever, and its not coming back...


Directv doesn't want VOOM. So it could go bankrupt as James suggested.


----------



## CoolGui

I don't think that one regional cable operator  is enough to keep it afloat... but other cable operators still could pick it up I think. But it is a populated region. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Voom wasn't a Dish Exclusive. They haven't had anybody pick them up for sometime now. I don't see it changing, until they change and consolidate


----------



## Richard King

Voom has some international distribution also.


----------



## Wayne Johnson

I Want My Rave!

Out of town for a week...come back and find out some of my favorite channels are gone. I like the new additions, but not at the expense of the channels that, in my opinion, made Dish Network's lineup so appealing.

I vote to bring them back.


----------



## Hound

As many posts attest to, Voom is very popular high quality niche programming.
E* made a bad deal by making Voom part of its basic HD package. If Voom is coming back, it will only be back as some sort of optional premium or part of HD ultimate. (Unless Cableviision wins the lawsuit. Denial of the temporary injunction, means there is a question of fact to be litigated. Could end up with a settlement and a modified agreement.) Either DBS
provider could pick up a few hundred thousand subs by offering Voom as an option. Cablevision has 
a few international deals for Voom and HDTV penetration is just
starting in Europe. So Voom may not be dead. Since Voom does not have advertising, providing it to Cablevision's subs does not increase the bottom line.
Cablevision has to build Voom charges into its programming packages.
Cablevision should market the channels individually
to US MVPs for broader distribution.


----------



## painted8

I'll miss Rave. Although they needed to mix in more shows, I liked the HD Jools Holland shows out of England. I think MHD carries those, too?


----------



## inkahauts

larrysano said:


> No, if you read the poll carefully, you'll notice that of the 4 responses, 3 of them have to do with not caring about Voom. So actually, it's 397 to 266 in favor of those who apparently think Voom is disposable.


Actually 40% of their customers saying they see value in the channels in any way is more than enough to warrant its carriage. In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised that there are some other premium channels that don't have that kind of support, much less a lot of the other channels that are out there.



HDMe said:


> Voom will either be back or gone forever. I know that sounds obvious... but what I mean is... don't hold your breath expecting to see it on DirecTV. That ship sailed a while back when DirecTV adopted the mantra of "HD you've never heard of" to describe the Voom suite. They've had plenty of chances to take Voom, and you know Rainbow media would have loved to pick up another provider... but alas it wasn't to be.
> 
> So people who like Voom need to voice an opinion and hope that Dish and Rainbow can come to terms. I suspect some of those terms will revolve around WE, IFC, and AMC coming in HD from Rainbow... and perhaps some of the "old" Voom rendered unnecessary as a result of those channel additions. The "new Voom" may very well look nothing like the old Voom IF it comes back in some form.
> 
> I do hope to see some of it come back... but even as a Voom enjoyer, I can't argue for all 15 channels coming back. I see the need (as discussed in other posts) of maybe 5-7 of them + the WE, IFC, AMC channels coming on board in HD.


Directv has picked on Voom because that was the entire basis for Dish saying they had lots of HD. As that narrows with Dish picking up more mainstream channels, once those numbers equate, Directv won't be using that as a marketing tool. In fact, when that time hits, it will make sense for Directv to carry at least a couple Voom channels to compete with them, assuming Dish has them back on. Of course, I don't think either carrier would have them back the sxact same way they were before Dish took them off the ar.


----------



## Chandu

I finally downgraded today from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials with no fee for the downgrade. The CSR seemed to handle this as a routine matter and didn't ask any questions.

As I've already stated before, in my opinion both DISH and VOOM are equally at fault for this mess. Looks like VOOM is nearing its death.


----------



## WayneL

It seems to me that Dish has downres'd - the pictures are flat with lots of edge enhancement. It would be too noticeable with the quality Voom channels so they dumped them. Dish EDTV. Lowest Common Denominator Network.


----------



## koji68

painted8 said:


> I'll miss Rave. Although they needed to mix in more shows, I liked the HD Jools Holland shows out of England. I think MHD carries those, too?


No. It is in Ovation. No HD though


----------



## kal915

WayneL said:


> It seems to me that Dish has downres'd - the pictures are flat with lots of edge enhancement. It would be too noticeable with the quality Voom channels so they dumped them. Dish EDTV. Lowest Common Denominator Network.


Where'd you get this from?
The DirecTv Inquirer?:lol:


----------



## calgary2800

Its been what a week now since the new channels came on and its a complete bust. Nothing that I havent seen before because its so mainstream. :nono2: 

Just as I was turning to the art world, and the better things in life with the niche channels I get more what I have always seen on TV.


----------



## Horsepower

Equator was my favorite channel. I will miss it.


----------



## clapple

"please do not start anymore threads on the same topic"

And can we end this one?

Voom is gone and apparently not coming back!

The End


----------



## Bob Hess

painted8 said:


> I'll miss Rave. Although they needed to mix in more shows, I liked the HD Jools Holland shows out of England. I think MHD carries those, too?


I have got to agree with this. Rave is a huge loss and was my primary reason for sticking with Dish.


----------



## Henry

clapple said:


> "please do not start anymore threads on the same topic"
> 
> And can we end this one?
> 
> Voom is gone and apparently not coming back!
> 
> The End


18 pages and people are still talking about it. Why would the Moderators close this thread and encourage other similar ones? Maybe we should just let folks tire of talking about it.


----------



## jetdoc

HDG said:


> 18 pages and people are still talking about it. Why would the Moderators close this thread and encourage other similar ones? Maybe we should just let folks tire of talking about it.


Ecactly, who are these guys crying about us talking about Voom? Don't read the thread if you don't like it. I fno one cared about Voom then why is this thread 18 pages?

There are thousands of Dish customers that are pissed. I have a friend who works for dish and she said its turned way worse than they expected. I'm like, no kidding!!!

There is stuff all over the internet over this bad mistake by dish. There are online petitions, etc. She also said they are losing viewers as well. People that just signed a contract, mostly for Voom, are now able to canx without penalty, as some have went through the BBB for the problem they had trying to canx without the penalty fee.

There are supervisors at Directv that have said they are in early talks about buying voom, and I've talked to one to comfirm this.

I do not have a contract with Dish, so they can piss off, as soon as the Voom issue is taken care of I will slide on over to Directv. Plus directv is cheaper, has more HD channels and they have a cool on demand thing. You can connect your PC to your directv receiver and have access to 1000's of movies. At least that what they told me.

All I know is that Dish screwed up big time. I LOVED the Monster channel, Rave, Kung Fu, Equator...are you kidding me? Equator blew away everything....Voom rocked.


----------



## peak_reception

When DISH dumped VOOM I said I would give it a week and see how things sorted out before deciding what to do with my Ultimate HD package.

A week later nothing else has been added, so the verdict is in:

My Ultimate HD package went from 19 HD channels (15 of which weren't perfect but at least had 24/7 HD content) to just 6 channels (I can't bring myself to call the World Fishing Network an HD channel b/c it's not).

I've now dropped the package.

*Net Loss = 13 HD channels.* 6 remain. It should be renamed the "Ultimate Bad Value" HD add on option.


----------



## jetdoc

Peak, I am not sure how accurate it is but again I've heard that Directv is in negotiations and I've also heard on the same site that dish is considering bringing back voom because of the complaints...which is true, if any? I will try to post the link for the online petition, the main guy there posts updates.


----------



## calgary2800

Please make sure you post the online petition to bring voom back. 

Andif you dont care about voom than dont read this thread or post a reply its that simple.


----------



## Jason Nipp

calgary2800 said:


> Please make sure you post the online petition to bring voom back.
> 
> Andif you dont care about voom than dont read this thread or post a reply its that simple.


We do not allow online petitions on this site.


----------



## Hound

Not surprised to hear rumors that D* is negotiating with Cablevision for Voom. Good opportunity to pick up a lot of new subs. Big win for D* if it can negotiate Voom as an optional premium. Big win for Cablevision as well with D*'s bigger sub base and much higher HD penetration than E*. I hope one of the two turn it back on soon. Miss Equator HD.


----------



## Bela Lugosi

jetdoc said:


> Ecactly, who are these guys crying about us talking about Voom? Don't read the thread if you don't like it. I fno one cared about Voom then why is this thread 18 pages?
> 
> There are thousands of Dish customers that are pissed. I have a friend who works for dish and she said its turned way worse than they expected. I'm like, no kidding!!!
> 
> There is stuff all over the internet over this bad mistake by dish. There are online petitions, etc. She also said they are losing viewers as well. People that just signed a contract, mostly for Voom, are now able to canx without penalty, as some have went through the BBB for the problem they had trying to canx without the penalty fee.
> 
> There are supervisors at Directv that have said they are in early talks about buying voom, and I've talked to one to comfirm this.
> 
> I do not have a contract with Dish, so they can piss off, as soon as the Voom issue is taken care of I will slide on over to Directv. Plus directv is cheaper, has more HD channels and they have a cool on demand thing. You can connect your PC to your directv receiver and have access to 1000's of movies. At least that what they told me.
> 
> All I know is that Dish screwed up big time. I LOVED the Monster channel, Rave, Kung Fu, Equator...are you kidding me? Equator blew away everything....Voom rocked.


Well I can verify that they WILL let new subscribers out of their contract due to this mess. I don't however, think that our *****ing/petitions/etc. amounts to hill of beans to the powers that be. The supervisor I spoke to said VOOM was NOT coming back.... ever. I only went with Dish for this specific package and if it's no longer offered, I have no reason to stay. Oh well. :nono:


----------



## jetdoc

Bela, I dont have a contract so I don't even have to do anything other than just say, "bye bye" to dish. I hear you about dish never getting voom again, I wonder if Directv will, as rumored?


----------



## jclewter79

I would not jump ship until they do for sure. Could all be talk. But, I hope they do I bet they could get them cheap, and when Charlie decides to talk with voom again he will be able to pay less than before.


----------



## hughvh

I downgraded both my America's Top and HD packages. I also sent this letter to Echo Star via e-mail and snail mail.

Dear Mr. Ergen:

When I upgrade to HDTV four months ago, I carefully weighed my HD programming options. What impressed me was your DishHD Ultimate package. In my opinion, it offered the best value for HD programming. I have since enjoyed Kung Fu HD, Monsters, and Film Fest. I was saddened to learn that Dish Networks as decided to stop airing these and other Voom channels.

I understand that you have added more HD channels. However, the World Fishing Network and Smithsonian HD are poor substitutes for Voom. I am forced to look elsewhere for my HD programming. I just purchased an AppleTv and I am watching Netflix's "The Netflix Player" product with great interest. Be certain the when my contract with Dish Network is up, I will be looking at other HD programming options.

Since I no longer see value in your programming packages, I have downgraded my service to America's Top 100 and dishHD Essential.

If I just wanted large amounts of mindless HD channels, I would have signed up with DirecTv.


----------



## peak_reception

hugh, not a bad letter except I'm not sure why you included the Smithsonian channel as part of how you describe the bad trade-off. Smithsonian HD is rather like a VOOM channel in many respects. Take Treasure HD and Equator HD, mix them together and Smithsonian HD is kind of what results (though with commercials).


----------



## jetdoc

I went to Vooms website and left them an email asking if Directv is in the process of buying them. 
Hopefully I will hear back. 

My TV seems so dark and lonely without Voom....We are Voomers and want Voom back. LOL


----------



## Stewart Vernon

People really shouldn't hold their breath for DirecTV to pick up Voom. DirecTV has been very public in their distaste for Voom AND could have picked up those channels any time they wanted, especially once they upper their capacity last year.

No, don't expect to see Voom on DirecTV.

Also... since there's no way for DirecTV to negotiate such a thing without Dish knowing about it... IF there was even a hint of truth to that rumor, Dish could put all of the Voom back up in a heartbeat if they wanted... so there's not even any way for DirecTV to "scoop" Dish on this one.

It'll either come back to Dish OR be gone for good. I'd like to see at least some of the channels come back... but I'm not even holding my breath for that.


----------



## jetdoc

HDMe, you seem to have a disdain for Voom, why the dislike? 

I wont hold my breath but some at Directv seem to think they are talking to Voom. Why would Dish care if Directv has Voom, if its unpopular then WGAF? lol.


----------



## calgary2800

Adding insult to injury to us Voom fan is the amount of SD and side bars on these HD channels. Many times I left the Plamsa TV on some voom channels just for the HD picture quality.


----------



## FitzAusTex

Just because a company like D* bashes a service like Voom that E* offers, in no way means that D* would never carry Voom. 

D* may have no interest whatsoever in Voom, but D*'s advertising/PR statement of "Dish has HD channels you've never heard of" in no way precludes D* from adding Voom. Flip flopping in business happens all the time. "Channels you've never heard of" is fleeting, and would be instantly forgotten by D*, if they decided there was value in adding Voom.


----------



## jetdoc

Exactly Fitz, great point.


----------



## aloishus27

jetdoc said:


> HDMe, you seem to have a disdain for Voom, why the dislike?
> 
> I wont hold my breath but some at Directv seem to think they are talking to Voom. Why would Dish care if Directv has Voom, if its unpopular then WGAF? lol.


Well the deal is Dish would definitely know if there were talks going on because Dish owns 20% of Voom. And Dish owns Rainbow1 because of that deal. So there is little way for there to be talks going on without Dish knowing. Dish's ownership of Voom is also a pretty good reason not to allow DirecTV to carry it.


----------



## GrumpyBear

FitzAusTex said:


> Just because a company like D* bashes a service like Voom that E* offers, in no way means that D* would never carry Voom.
> 
> D* may have no interest whatsoever in Voom, but D*'s advertising/PR statement of "Dish has HD channels you've never heard of" in no way precludes D* from adding Voom. Flip flopping in business happens all the time. "Channels you've never heard of" is fleeting, and would be instantly forgotten by D*, if they decided there was value in adding Voom.


I hear a few people came to E*cause of Voom, but looking at the numbers from the last quarter, what drives people to a company are channels they no and understand. Voom was NOT bringing in tons of people, veiwers were going to others with HD channels they new.

Also, this a Topic about ALL VOOM. Rather you could careless about VOOM, Rather you are mad as all get out about Voom being gone, or rather it doesn't bother you either way. Everybody has a voice here, no just those mad about Voom being gone.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jetdoc said:


> HDMe, you seem to have a disdain for Voom, why the dislike?
> 
> I wont hold my breath but some at Directv seem to think they are talking to Voom. Why would Dish care if Directv has Voom, if its unpopular then WGAF? lol.


You should perform a search on DBSTalk and see how many thread I've posted about how much I watch and like Voom. I've been a regular defender, so I'm confused as to where you are seeing any "disdain" on my part.

As for the DirecTV/Voom rumors... I don't believe rumors any more than I can throw the people who start them. Many rumors seem to be started with an agenda in place as well, so I tend to ignore unless proof comes to the surface. And at this point anything regarding DirecTV and Voom is beyond a rumor. Voom has wanted to be picked up by DirecTV and other cable providers for years now. Instead, DirecTV has made a point of publically attacking the desirability of Voom... so I'd be VERY surprised to see an about face at this point. The simple facts are that DirecTV could have added Voom last year once they upped their capacity IF they truly wanted Voom. Instead, DirecTV chose to talk vaguely about "channels you have never heard of" to dismiss them.. and I believe I saw someone quote a DirecTV rep once as saying that they had no interest in the Voom suite.

Meanwhile... as others have noted, Dish has about a 20% stake in Voom... so it would be hard for DirecTV to negotiate carriage in "secret" without Dish knowing... so IF the unthinkable happened and DirecTV suddenly decided Voom had value after all, Dish would know and could easily put Voom back up... thus no way for DirecTV to sneak in and get something that Dish can't have.

I posted disappointment not only at Dish taking the channels down but also the manner (sudden, without warning) in which they did it. Bad decision in my book. For as much as I like, and have watched, Voom... however, I've also always admitted that 15 channels was just too much for the amount of content. Rainbow was simply not investing enough money to have enough new content to warrant 15 channels in the suite. I would strongly support a re-orged Voom coming back (I've posted details already on this forum of my thoughts).

I'm just not holding my breath, because the suddenness of Dish's actions here indicates we will either be waiting a while OR perhaps indefinately for Voom to come back.


----------



## CoolGui

HDMe said:


> ... I'm confused as to where you are seeing any "disdain" on my part...


I think he believes it's one of those "You're either with us or against us, and if you are not positive about the chances of getting Voom back, you're against us".

Anyway, I want Voom back too.. having all of them would make me very happen even if I didn't watch them all daily. I always want more choice. However, I have really been enjoying the Travel Channel and Smithsonian channels. I didn't think I would, so I'm surprised.  So when are they gonna turn on this mythical Mojo uplink they have? I would still be surprised if Comcast/Cox/TWC allowed it to go to Dish, but I'm not going to look a gift HD channel in the mouth.


----------



## bigconig

Mad enough to register here to vent. The VOOM channels featured a lot of programming that was made specifically to be viewed in HD. Almost everything on RUSH was worth watching for the visuals alone. Dish now has nothing more than cable aside from the lack of locals in HD and a bunch of hardware on my roof. Most the new channels hardly even have any HD programming yet- Yay I get to watch SD with 3 tickers now.

I haven't decided how much time I will give them to wow me with some new HD stuff, but it had better be before the fall season or I will definitely just go back to cable.


----------



## FTA Michael

When I would turn on a Voom channel, I was always sure of two things:

* It would always be in glorious, full HD.

* It would not be a commercial.

I really wish Voom and Dish would work it out to get Voom back on the "extra" HD tier. Voom would get something better than the nothing it's getting from Dish today, and Dish would have a good reason for subs to pay the extra $10 for the tier.

In the unlikely event that DirecTV lands Voom, I would begin checking into whether I want to switch. I held out when Extra Innings (and with it the Baseball Channel) left Dish, and the five true Superstations are looking less relevant with diminished sports content and stuck in SD. Looking just at Dish's programming advantages, I don't see many reasons to stay. I sure hope Voom comes back.


----------



## Henry

Not so much dissapointed at how E* took down the Voom channels. I _am _at the lack of real replacement content, however. I enjoy Travel and Smithsonian, too, but they really don't compare.

Nor would I be happy just to see the Vooms come back unchanged. To be honest, I watched Voom very infrequently because of the constant churn of repeats. To get them back just so I can ignore them again is not, IMHO, a benefit as much as it is a clutter on my guide.

If, however, Voom were to return with fresh programming and continued to change it over time, I would very much welcome them back.


----------



## FitzAusTex

HDG said:


> Not so much dissapointed at how E* took down the Voom channels. I _am _at the lack of real replacement content, however. I enjoy Travel and Smithsonian, too, but they really don't compare.
> 
> Nor would I be happy just to see the Vooms come back unchanged. To be honest, I watched Voom very infrequently because of the constant churn of repeats. To get them back just so I can ignore them again is not, IMHO, a benefit as much as it is a clutter on my guide.
> 
> If, however, Voom were to return with fresh programming and continued to change it over time, I would very much welcome them back.


I'm disappointed to see a small amount of advertising on Smithsonian, and I fear more is coming. Any commercials (except promos about upcoming programs) bugs the heck out of me. The other problem with Smithsonian, perversely, is their library of material, or lack thereof. I've already watched 90% of everything that is on the guide for the next 9 days...so not sure how Smithsonian is gonna cut it for me. Equator and Gallery are two of my favorite Voom channels, and in the 18 months I've had Voom, I have not even come close to watching everything on those two channels, even with all the repeats.


----------



## bjwilson

I downgraded from Ultimate to Essential because of the elimination of the Vooms - not because I was such a fan of the Voom programming, but I was already on the fence about whether Ultimate was good value for the dollar, and once the Vooms were gone I could no longer justify the extra $10/month for what was left.

When I called to downgrade, the CSR made no effort at all to save the revenue. She didn't even ask why I was downgrading, and made no mention of the fee. Think they have been fielding more than a few of these calls lately?


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> People really shouldn't hold their breath for DirecTV to pick up Voom. DirecTV has been very public in their distaste for Voom AND could have picked up those channels any time they wanted, especially once they upper their capacity last year.
> 
> No, don't expect to see Voom on DirecTV.
> 
> Also... since there's no way for DirecTV to negotiate such a thing without Dish knowing about it... IF there was even a hint of truth to that rumor, Dish could put all of the Voom back up in a heartbeat if they wanted... so there's not even any way for DirecTV to "scoop" Dish on this one.
> 
> It'll either come back to Dish OR be gone for good. I'd like to see at least some of the channels come back... but I'm not even holding my breath for that.


The contract is still binding. So your choice is a handful of cablccos.


----------



## peak_reception

bjwilson said:


> When I called to downgrade, the CSR made no effort at all to save the revenue. She didn't even ask why I was downgrading, and made no mention of the fee. Think they have been fielding more than a few of these calls lately?


When I called to downgrade I was told by a brain-dead CSR that *only five* of the VOOM channels had been taken down. This was a full week after all 15 were taken down!! Incredible. That's when I asked to talk to a supervisor. I was on hold for about five minutes and then bumped off the connection completely. I called back and finally got a competent CSR who took me off Ultimate without any further problem.


----------



## Lostinspace

After noticing that we no longer watch any SD channels anyway, we had decided to downgrade to the HD only package, premiums and locals, instead of the everything pack. 

When I called today to downgrade I first told the CSR of my extreme displeasure with the decision to pull Voom, and that I wasn't yet ready to cancel my service but was downgrading. She responded that Voom was no longer carried because "Voom backed out". Knowing from posts on this site the that Charlie notified Voom of his decision to withdraw from the agreement months ago, I called her on that lie. She changed her tune, apologized, and quickly made the requested changes. I do hope that call was monitored.

Net savings, even with paying the DVR fee and lease is $39.01 per month. 

If Dish hadn't pulled the Voom channels I would have continued with the programming I had, but if I can't have Equator, Rush and Rave then Charlie gets less of my $$. Perhaps if enough people vote with their checkbook Dish will notice.


----------



## Richard King

aloishus27 said:


> Well the deal is Dish would definitely know if there were talks going on because Dish owns 20% of Voom. And Dish owns Rainbow1 because of that deal. So there is little way for there to be talks going on without Dish knowing. Dish's ownership of Voom is also a pretty good reason not to allow DirecTV to carry it.


Actually, the fact that Dish owns 20% of Voom doesn't mean that they would know of any negotiations between Voom and any other carrier. They have a minority position on the board, but the board doesn't meet everyday, normally only once per quarter, if that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Directv pick them up IF they could nail down an exclusive as a satellite carrier, which is something they like to do. I suspect that many who have posted here may make the change if that should happen. Rainbow 1 has nothing to do with anything in the situation. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dish has written off the total investment in Voom and given up their seats on the board. Certainly, they wouldn't be welcome at board meetings since they are being sued by Voom.


----------



## himini

FitzAusTex said:


> Equator and Gallery are two of my favorite Voom channels, and in the 18 months I've had Voom, I have not even come close to watching everything on those two channels, even with all the repeats.


Yes, here, here-- one of the reasons the "constant repeats" argument against Voom was never true for me. Equator had even recently begun showing NEW episodes of "World Heritage," one of my favorite TV shows of all time.

This past week has been very sad for me as far as finding something to watch. I had hoped that my love for Voom was almost imaginary, but apparently a non-Voom lineup doesn't mesh well with my viewing preferences; I've been very bored with my choices since losing the package. I think the no-commercial thing is a big deal for me too.


----------



## blooker68

jetdoc said:


> Bela, I dont have a contract so I don't even have to do anything other than just say, "bye bye" to dish. I hear you about dish never getting voom again, I wonder if Directv will, as rumored?


I'll bail (after 10 years with E) in a heartbeat if D really picks up Voom.

E did us the nasty with their sleazy move.


----------



## grog

At least I can still watch Jools Holland on Ovation TV.

I have my VIP622 setup to record all the Jools shows as they appear on channel 157.

It's SD so really poor quality from the HD feed Rave gave us. Sound is not as good....

Maybe Ovation will go HD?










I am just glad I can see the show once again!!!
I was really missing this show....

==> Hoping Voom comes back.....

For the record... If DirecTV picked up Voom I would switch in a second.


----------



## Richard King

grog said:


> At least I can still watch Jools Holland on Ovation TV.
> 
> I have my VIP622 setup to record all the Jools shows as they appear on channel 157.
> 
> It's SD so really poor quality from the HD feed Rave gave us. Sound is not as good....
> 
> Maybe Ovation will go HD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am just glad I can see the show once again!!!
> I was really missing this show....
> 
> ==> Hoping Voom comes back.....
> 
> For the record... If DirecTV picked up Voom I would switch in a second.


Love with Arthur Lee?!?!?!?! One of my favorite bands from the '60's. He died about a year after this show was shot. Timer set for 1:00AM. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## jetdoc

aloishus27 said:


> Well the deal is Dish would definitely know if there were talks going on because Dish owns 20% of Voom. And Dish owns Rainbow1 because of that deal. So there is little way for there to be talks going on without Dish knowing. Dish's ownership of Voom is also a pretty good reason not to allow DirecTV to carry it.


I realize Dish owns 20% of Voom, does a small percent allow all knowledge of talks? My point is if Dish says Voom is a money losing operation then why would they care if Directv bought them out?

I agree with others, I have not watched many repeats on Voom, not sure where that came from. I watch Voom a lot, or watched I should say. I don't care, repeats or not, Voom was the best.


----------



## PTown

P Smith said:


> He play with some facts; VOOM info removed from system tables, so any Dish receiver will not have access to them, regardless model and FW version; streams of the VOOM channels (video and audio ) still transmitting on same places - there is a space for speculation: FTA HD 8PSK receiver could show VOOM with user defined channels if those channels unencrypted.


No trying to play with any facts but yes that is what I have found in my daily rounds of reading. I can find out which 2 channels went away and will post back.

This information can also be found if you have a genpix or dvbtech module and tsreader. However I don't have a line into my pc so I find the info by reading.


----------



## PTown

Richard King said:


> Love with Arthur Lee?!?!?!?! One of my favorite bands from the '60's. He died about a year after this show was shot. Timer set for 1:00AM. Thanks for the heads up.


Arthur who??? The Distillers was the main draw for that episode


----------



## fredpb

I am sooooooooooo irritated at dish for removing those voom channels. They had some outstanding programming on them. I loved the old monster movies, just loved them. And some of the Treasure shows were spectacular in HD. The new ones added are not that impressive. Who gives a darn about CNN in HD? MGM is useless. Thank goodness I have Netflix and it's digital streaming movies as well as rentals. I am not too impressed with Dishes HD programming anymore. Tons of PPV and sports channels....get rid of some of them and put real programming on. When my HD commitment is done, I am certainly going to shop around. The phone rep said many more by the end of the year. Well, that does not mean a thing. Apparently, Dishs choice of HD programming is not my taste.


----------



## clyde sauls

Why couldnt dish have just made a $10 hd pkg for Voom. Instead of dropping them. Then Lower the pkg of the ultimate pkg to $15. That way it is they still have some programming directv doesnt have. The ultimate pkg at $15 is really what it is worth without the Voom channels. Unless they add more hd to the ultimate pkg. i dont think that 7 channels for additional $10 is worth it. I bet most people have dropped the ultimate to the essentials. I did once my free 6 months of hd was over before they dropped Voom. I switched from Directv in October mainly because Directv wouldnt give me a free upgrade to a HD DVR. I am for one was not going to pay $99 for equipment I dont own just Lease. I wonder why Dish is the only tv provider that offers any receivers with two outputs. I do love that feature that you record and watch the recorded program from either two tvs.The 622 which I have is an amazing dvr.


----------



## paulman182

fredpb said:


> I am sooooooooooo irritated at dish for removing those voom channels. They had some outstanding programming on them. I loved the old monster movies, just loved them. And some of the Treasure shows were spectacular in HD. The new ones added are not that impressive. Who gives a darn about CNN in HD? MGM is useless. Thank goodness I have Netflix and it's digital streaming movies as well as rentals. I am not too impressed with Dishes HD programming anymore. Tons of PPV and sports channels....get rid of some of them and put real programming on. When my HD commitment is done, I am certainly going to shop around. The phone rep said many more by the end of the year. Well, that does not mean a thing. Apparently, Dishs choice of HD programming is not my taste.


Just as a heads-up. MGMHD often shows old monster, vampire, and sci-fi movies.

I'm sure it is no substitute for the dedicated Voom channel, but its something.


----------



## Hound

clyde sauls said:


> The ultimate pkg at $15 is really what it is worth without the Voom channels. Unless they add more hd to the ultimate pkg. i dont think that 7 channels for additional $10 is worth it. I bet most people have dropped the ultimate to the essentials.


It has been the story of E's HD programming packages life to be overpriced or have holes in
its HD lineup.
Without Voom HD ultimate is overpriced. Whether MGMHD has monster movies or not is irrelevant because E* subs 
are not going to pay an additional $10 for ultimate.
And many subs who would get HD only and MGMHD will not sign up for HD only because there is no way to get BTN or a RSN in HD. And for the subs that would consider HD only because they do not care about BTN or RSNs or have taken care of the HD RSN with a second service, E* no longer has any unique or niche HD programming that makes HD only attractive.

That is why E* is last in HD penetration, and I predict will have another quarter (2nd Q) of few or maybe negative net sub additions.


----------



## aloishus27

Hound said:


> It has been the story of E's HD programming packages life to be overpriced or have holes in
> its HD lineup.
> Without Voom HD ultimate is overpriced. Whether MGMHD has monster movies or not is irrelevant because E* subs
> are not going to pay an additional $10 for ultimate.
> And many subs who would get HD only and MGMHD will not sign up for HD only because there is no way to get BTN or a RSN in HD. And for the subs that would consider HD only because they do not care about BTN or RSNs or have taken care of the HD RSN with a second service, E* no longer has any unique or niche HD programming that makes HD only attractive.
> 
> That is why E* is last in HD penetration, and I predict will have another quarter (2nd Q) of few or maybe negative net sub additions.


Actually I was online changing my programming, and there was a checkbox for adding superstations and for me sunsports, foxsports south for 4.99.

I may add this just to see if it works when i get home.


----------



## Hound

aloishus27 said:


> Actually I was online changing my programming, and there was a checkbox for adding superstations and for me sunsports, foxsports south for 4.99.


If true, from a competitive 
standpoint, that is a very good and important change of policy by E*.
In my personal situation, it does not matter because E* does not provide one HD RSN in my town. I rely on D* and Verizon to provide me with CSN HD, YES HD, SNY HD, MSG HD, MSG+ HD, and BTN HD. That is six HD sports channels available in my town that E* does not provide or allow me to add to my current programming package of HD only


----------



## Mikey

aloishus27 said:


> Actually I was online changing my programming, and there was a checkbox for adding superstations and for me sunsports, foxsports south for 4.99.
> 
> I may add this just to see if it works when i get home.


You can probably add the Superstations. I doubt that you will ever get the RSNs with the HD Only package, at least not until Dish changes their policy.


----------



## AVJohnnie

Hound said:


> It has been the story of E's HD programming packages life to be overpriced or have holes in
> its HD lineup.
> Without Voom HD ultimate is overpriced. Whether MGMHD has monster movies or not is irrelevant because E* subs
> are not going to pay an additional $10 for ultimate.
> And many subs who would get HD only and MGMHD will not sign up for HD only because there is no way to get BTN or a RSN in HD. And for the subs that would consider HD only because they do not care about BTN or RSNs or have taken care of the HD RSN with a second service, E* no longer has any unique or niche HD programming that makes HD only attractive.
> 
> That is why E* is last in HD penetration, and I predict will have another quarter (2nd Q) of few or maybe negative net sub additions.


Based on past history, if I were to make a guess at this point as to the "why-for" and the "way-done", regarding the Voom situation, I'd say it's mostly about a certain someone's bruised ego over being sued.


----------



## aloishus27

Mikey said:


> You can probably add the Superstations. I doubt that you will ever get the RSNs with the HD Only package, at least not until Dish changes their policy.


When I was online a week ago it was an option, whether it was right or wrong I can't say, but when I went on the the page to do it, the option is no longer there for the superstations, let alone my RSNs. So much for that. :nono2:


----------



## boyds_sat

bigconig said:


> Mad enough to register here to vent. The VOOM channels featured a lot of programming that was made specifically to be viewed in HD. Almost everything on RUSH was worth watching for the visuals alone. Dish now has nothing more than cable aside from the lack of locals in HD and a bunch of hardware on my roof. Most the new channels hardly even have any HD programming yet- Yay I get to watch SD with 3 tickers now.
> 
> I haven't decided how much time I will give them to wow me with some new HD stuff, but it had better be before the fall season or I will definitely just go back to cable.


I also just registered so I can add to the VOOM thread. I have 
had Dish Network over seven years and have always recommended it 
as the best TV experience - until now. I built a new house and 
had it wired just for Dish technologies - two VIP622's with 
750GB external HDs, 7' PocketDish and a third SD dual tuner DVR 
in the basement for whole house audio and SD for the kids. 
Everyone at our house is miserable without VOOM as now we flip 
nothing but commercials and up -converted SD

VOOM was always full time HD

VOOM NEVER had a commercial, paid programming

VOOM (Equator HD, Gallery HD, RAVE HD with 5.1 surround, 
Treasure HD ..et all) was the first stop when I would show 
friends/family/visitors interested in seeing HD on my pro-grade 
plasma or my high-end LCD. On Saturday my friend came 
to see how HD looked on my gear and I couldn't find 
ANYTHING in true HD.

Replacement channels don't compare and currently paying too 
much for up-converted SD commercial bloated garbage..might as 
well get FIOS, Comcast or Direct TV

Currently on hold with DISH because this is the SIXTH time the 
installers have been late and can't relocate my three antennas 
because they don't have more than a 24" ladder, need two man 
crew, for a 12:00PM to 5:00PM apt - say they are on their way 
at 7:00 PM on a Saturday night to do roof work....missed a 
promised after work apt on Monday...


----------



## Richard King

PTown said:


> Arthur who??? The Distillers was the main draw for that episode


In my efforts to properly educate the youth of America. :lol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(band)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forever_Changes
They did GREAT by the way.


----------



## calgary2800

Hallmark, WFN, Disney channels, Toon, Weather are half SD and half HD. Not good.


----------



## Richard King

Actually, I have yet to see ANYTHING on WFN in HD, but then I wouldn't care if it were in HD.


----------



## jetdoc

great post boyds.....you're in the same boat as a lot of us. It just totally blows my mind that dish would just remove all of these channels without so much as a note to us. Voom was the best thing out there. Some here have said they repeated, that is so wrong.....sure there were no soaps or stupid game shows, like American Idol, (it makes me sick to even type those two words), or sitcoms, but thats what made Voom special, NOBODY had it but Dish, (well some cable co in NY), but Directv didn't.

Now dish is actually behind Directv as Directv has more HD, the NFL channel and other programs....Dish SUCKS without Voom.


----------



## James Long

jetdoc said:


> Now dish is actually behind Directv as Directv has more HD, the NFL channel and other programs....Dish SUCKS without Voom.


FYI: DISH has The NFL Network HD. Do you care or are you just ranting?


----------



## Paul Secic

jetdoc said:


> HDMe, you seem to have a disdain for Voom, why the dislike?
> 
> I wont hold my breath but some at Directv seem to think they are talking to Voom. Why would Dish care if Directv has Voom, if its unpopular then WGAF? lol.


VOOM's PQ was great, no doubt about it. They should had ads to support their shaky but good shows. I won't go back because I like Bill Marr and Def Jam Comedy which comes back next month on HBO, even if VOOM comes back. I can't afford both services. So VOOM loses..


----------



## Chandu

Swanni says, VOOM may die as early as next month:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/voom052108.htm

  :nono:

Why doesn't Mark Cuban buy all of VOOM at dirt-cheap price and combine them with HDNet? In fact, I will just send him an email urging to do that.

If anyone of you're interested, you can also email him here: [email protected] or here:

http://www.blogmaverick.com/contact/comments/

I just sent this to him:



> Hello Mr. Mark Cuban,
> 
> I'm sure you're aware that one of HDNet's competitor VOOM is close to its death, because they went on the bad books with Mr. Charlie Ergen. While this is good news for HDNet, I believe it should also become a wonderful opportunity for you to increase your inventory substantially at dirt cheap price. A number of VOOM channels did in fact have very unique programming and cult following. While I don't believe it would be economical to keep all of their 15 channels alive in their entirety (as well as their philosophy of repeating programs incessantly) - I feel you stand to gain significant value of HDNet at dirt cheap price with their content. I hope you've already made an inquiry to them about purchase price, and if not, see value in my feedback and would consider it.
> 
> Regards,
> ???????


----------



## jetdoc

James Long said:


> FYI: DISH has The NFL Network HD. Do you care or are you just ranting?


Dude what are you talking about? I have an opinion and if you don't like it, TS.

I know dish has that channel, big deal, its not the NFL ticket like directv. And uhh, I do care.....about this much, (its me holding my left hand up with a 1/4" gap between my thumb and forefinger), lol.


----------



## jetdoc

Chandu, thanks for the link, great article. Seems over in Europe and Canada Voom is selling pretty well, perhaps they are a bit more refined than us ugly Americans, lol. 

I will drop Mr.Cuban an email, thanks for that as well.


----------



## calgary2800

I just read that link predicting Voom's death. Does anyone know what region of the US Cablevison shows Voom ?


----------



## Chandu

calgary2800 said:


> I just read that link predicting Voom's death. Does anyone know what region of the US Cablevison shows Voom ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IO_Digital_Cable_Service



> Interactive Optimum, better known as iO Digital Cable or simply iO, is a digital cable service offered by Cablevision, available in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and parts of Pennsylvania.


----------



## PTown

Richard King said:


> In my efforts to properly educate the youth of America. :lol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(band))
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forever_Changes
> They did GREAT by the way.


Hey I've heard The Damned covers of those songs! No idea it was a cover though. Thanks for the link, that's pretty neat.


----------



## AVJohnnie

We’ve dumped Voom to make room for more popular HD in the “coming weeks”, they said. Well, it’s been almost two weeks. Anyone seeing anything new? :lol:


----------



## Richard King

> Swanni says, VOOM may die as early as next month:
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/voom052108.htm


I have no idea why ANYONE puts any credibility in anything "Swanni" says. In the same story he makes the claim:



> Voom now has only one carrier left: Cablevision


While Voom may eventually fail, and I wouldn't be surprised, Voom has carriage internationally in several countries. Of course, "experts" in the media don't do their homework or research to find out such things. Take EVERYTHING in that column with a VERY large grain of salt (or two). It took me about 10 minutes to find these on a Google search:

http://www.rainbow-media.com/release_release_press.jsp?nodeid=5794
http://www.varietyasiaonline.com/content/view/1041/53/

Why can not someone who is PAID to do such research do the same Google?


----------



## James Long

Voom HD does have limited distribution outside of the US ... but it is NOT the VoomHD 15 channel package. There is probably a better way of putting it so it is clear that Swanni is only talking about the Voom suite of 15 HD channels.

_"The VOOM HD networks' 15 HDTV channels are available in the U.S. on Echostar's DISH Network and Cablevision's iO digital cable service. A 24/7 linear VOOM HD channel is available internationally in 35 countries and is currently distributed in Asia, Europe and the Middle East."_​


----------



## grog

With Voom gone there are a good number of days as of late that I do not even turn the TV on at all.

When I do watch TV I find I am watching very little HD these days.

Watching a lot of Ovation TV 157 for 'Later with Jools Holland'. I have my timers setup to record Jools!

What little HD I am watching a lot more content on locals (OTA).
I have a problem with getting PBS-HD and that has not been an issue for me before since commercial free feed of Soundstage was on Rave. Now I think I am going to go for a larger antenna on the roof, the one I have on the roof is too small to pick up PBS well enough.

I am not holding my breath for any new HD channels. I expect nothing more than fishing network or similar "stellar type"  programming.

Watched a couple of Beverly Hillbillies episodes this morning before I turned off the TV. Right now the TV is off.

There are a couple of TCM movies this weekend I have set to record.
I will watch that and Jools tonight.

For those who are also finding themselves stuck in SD land with large screens do what I am doing... move way back from the set... way back!! The picture look fine if I am far enough away from the set. 



AVJohnnie said:


> We've dumped Voom to make room for more popular HD in the "coming weeks", they said. Well, it's been almost two weeks. Anyone seeing anything new? :lol:


----------



## jetdoc

grog, too funny man!!! I feel your pain though, the HD with VOOM was second to none, it was great. Fishing channel, paaaaalease.


----------



## chavonbravo

According to a friend, there is a slate on channel 9472, now "TMP E", which states as follows:
Sorry for the interruption. There is no need to call us. We are aware that this channel is temporary unavailable and we will have this channel back as quickly as possible. 
Don't ask how he views this, but I have confirmed this going to his house.


----------



## FrostByghte

I've been a Dish customer for...well a long time.  I don't even remember when I first signed up. I had my original sat receiver and a dish 300 forever and a day. It worked great for me, I had no troubles. Got a call from Dish and the HD sounded nice, so I updated.

I was very pleased with the KungFu channel, Monsters HD, and Gameplay HD channels. I thought they were great. Well imagine my surprise when I went to check out the programming and everything was gone.  So I just voted with my dollars. I've downgraded from the 200 to the 100 package, and removed HD Ultimate for the Essential. Maybe someday Dish's HD lineup will be ready, but right now the channels Dish has available do not offer a clear enough picture or good enough programming for me to give a rats arse about them.

And chillers? From what I can tell I would have to move to the 250 package to even check it out. pffft....

Anyway, here is one customer pulling back on programming because of this.


----------



## DJ Lon

grog said:


> With Voom gone there are a good number of days as of late that I do not even turn the TV on at all.


Same here...boy do I miss Voom! I would record things and watch them on the weekends. For the first time since I've had my 722 there are >40 HD hours available (it usually was at <20).


----------



## inkahauts

How about having only one channel dedicated to voom, and rotate through each month which of the channels is on the air, and having all their programing from all the channels available on Demand for download. Every carrier would have room for that, yes?


----------



## Oilfan

jetdoc said:


> Chandu, thanks for the link, great article. Seems over in Europe and Canada Voom is selling pretty well, perhaps they are a bit more refined than us ugly Americans, lol.
> 
> I will drop Mr.Cuban an email, thanks for that as well.


One provider has VOOM (3 or 4 channels total) in Canada and it is EXPRESSVU. I wouldn't say it is doing very well at all.


----------



## jetdoc

Oilfan said:


> One provider has VOOM (3 or 4 channels total) in Canada and it is EXPRESSVU. I wouldn't say it is doing very well at all.


How about in other countries?


----------



## Paul Secic

grog said:


> With Voom gone there are a good number of days as of late that I do not even turn the TV on at all.
> 
> When I do watch TV I find I am watching very little HD these days.
> 
> Watching a lot of Ovation TV 157 for 'Later with Jools Holland'. I have my timers setup to record Jools!
> 
> What little HD I am watching a lot more content on locals (OTA).
> I have a problem with getting PBS-HD and that has not been an issue for me before since commercial free feed of Soundstage was on Rave. Now I think I am going to go for a larger antenna on the roof, the one I have on the roof is too small to pick up PBS well enough.
> 
> I am not holding my breath for any new HD channels. I expect nothing more than fishing network or similar "stellar type"  programming.
> 
> Watched a couple of Beverly Hillbillies episodes this morning before I turned off the TV. Right now the TV is off.
> 
> There are a couple of TCM movies this weekend I have set to record.
> I will watch that and Jools tonight.
> 
> For those who are also finding themselves stuck in SD land with large screens do what I am doing... move way back from the set... way back!! The picture look fine if I am far enough away from the set.


Ovation has the poorest programming & PQ of all.


----------



## Richard King

Paul Secic said:


> Ovation has the poorest programming & PQ of all.


On the PQ point I can agree 100%. It looks like garbage, which is a shame because I disagree 100% on your programming opinion (although you have every right to state it).


----------



## grog

At this point PQ is something 'I like' but just watching content for me in more important.

Hell... give me Voom in SD and I will be happy enough to stay with Dish.

There has to be room in the SD area for a few channels? Five Voom channels maybe?

VOOM in SD would be better than no VOOM at all. 

Ovation is SD is better than no Ovation at all.


----------



## Henry

grog said:


> At this point PQ is something 'I like' but just watching content for me in more important.
> 
> Hell... give me Voom in SD and I will be happy enough to stay with Dish.
> 
> There has to be room in the SD area for a few channels? Five Voom channels maybe?
> 
> VOOM in SD would be better than no VOOM at all.
> 
> Ovation is SD is better than no Ovation at all.


grog; Don't get so tied up that you forget why Voom was removed. Bringing them back in SD won't solve a problem that even you will eventually complain about.

It appears obvious that they were brought on as a suite, thus they had to go in equal fashion. That's not to say they won't negotiate their way back into the line-up - in fact I hope they do, and in all their HD splendor.

As a sub, I only insist that when they return, they live up to their contractual obligations and give us users timely and updated variety.


----------



## whatchel1

Man I glad you said that Jools was on Ovation. The only problem is I know it was in HD and so it is hard to watch. I've only got a 32" 4X3 (so about the size of a 28" 16 X 9 and I can barely stand it. But then working in TV I'm really picky. BUT SD SUCKS.


----------



## dbenj

HDG said:


> grog; Don't get so tied up that you forget why Voom was removed. Bringing them back in SD won't solve a problem that even you will eventually complain about.
> 
> It appears obvious that they were brought on as a suite, thus they had to go in equal fashion. That's not to say they won't negotiate their way back into the line-up - in fact I hope they do, and in all their HD splendor.
> 
> As a sub, I only insist that when they return, they live up to their contractual obligations and give us users timely and updated variety.


And what about DISH's obligations to their subscribers? Many people made investments in DISH equipment based upon diverse selection of channels available from DISH. Now there is nothing to set DISH apart from the other mainstream mind numbing garbage.

Perhaps DirecTV or Comcast will pick up VOOM... Then it is adios.


----------



## calgary2800

Here is the list of channels that imho are very poor in PQ and to add insult to that half the time are showing SD.

WFN- never in this instance, a joke.
Cartoon-
Disney-both of them
Weather
Travel
Hallmark


----------



## ibooksrule

I agree on all of them except travel. Maybe not all is in HD yet but i am betting soon it will. Even the stuff that is filmed in 16x9 but upconverted to Hd looks better then SD. What better channel then a travel channel and the food channel to be in HD. See parts of the world in HD clarity.

The other channels listed WFN, cartoon, disney and weather and halmark dont need to be.

but face it some day everything will be HD


----------



## normang

Much of the material that those channels show was never made in HD more than likely, and it costs to convert to to some sort of HD with any reasonable quality, I would expect SD programming on these channels darn near forever, with only new material being HD.


----------



## AVJohnnie

ibooksrule said:


> I agree on all of them except travel. Maybe not all is in HD yet but i am betting soon it will. Even the stuff that is filmed in 16x9 but upconverted to Hd looks better then SD. What better channel then a travel channel and the food channel to be in HD. See parts of the world in HD clarity.
> 
> The other channels listed WFN, cartoon, disney and weather and halmark dont need to be.
> 
> but face it some day everything will be HD





normang said:


> Much of the material that those channels show was never made in HD more than likely, and it costs to convert to to some sort of HD with any reasonable quality, I would expect SD programming on these channels darn near forever, with only new material being HD.


Kind of makes the point of what Voom is/was up against, doesn't it? It's pretty darn hard to come up with fresh HD content 24/7. We seem to be willing to excuse all these other purveyors of SD stretchy-vision because there just isn't enough/any HD for them to show. But at the same time condemn Voom for not providing fresh, new HD 24/7... Go figure&#8230;

I still think Voom had to go away because they balked over the tier thing and thereby angered the Gods.


----------



## mam66

Just registered to vent as well.
I have been with Dish for 12 years now. 

I loved the VOOM channels, and despite better deals stuck around with Dish for this reason only. 12 Years and this is the way Charlie thinks his customers should be treated? Announce n channels, knowing that within a few days they will actually be 15 less?

Well, for me, now nothing distinguishes Dish from the others. I live close to NYC and have cable and DirectTV giving me better deals. No reason to stay with Dish.

So Thank You Dish Network & Good Bye Charlie. 
Sorry I knew as long as I did.


----------



## moman19

grog said:


> .......Watching a lot of Ovation TV 157 for 'Later with Jools Holland'. I have my timers setup to record Jools!
> What little HD I am watching a lot more content on locals (OTA).
> I have a problem with getting PBS-HD and that has not been an issue for me before since commercial free feed of Soundstage was on Rave. Now I think I am going to go for a larger antenna on the roof, the one I have on the roof is too small to pick up PBS well enough.......


Grog,

I was willing to put up with all the VOOM reruns just for the RAVE channel. That's the one I will miss. If OVATION would be available in HD, I would be a happy camper. Frankly, I doubt that such a niche channel is high on the list of Charlie's HD upgrades.

Regarding PBS in HD via OTA, I live close to you in Creve Coeur, MO and the signal comes in quite well with a decent roof antenna. Soundstage in HD does not look as good as it did on RAVE, but it's light years better than SD quality on OVATION.

OVATION HD + PBS HD gets me close to where I was before VOOM went BUST.


----------



## calgary2800

mam66 said:


> Just registered to vent as well.
> I have been with Dish for 12 years now.
> 
> I loved the VOOM channels, and despite better deals stuck around with Dish for this reason only. 12 Years and this is the way Charlie thinks his customers should be treated? Announce n channels, knowing that within a few days they will actually be 15 less?
> 
> Well, for me, now nothing distinguishes Dish from the others. I live close to NYC and have cable and DirectTV giving me better deals. No reason to stay with Dish.
> 
> So Thank You Dish Network & Good Bye Charlie.
> Sorry I knew as long as I did.


Actually Dish is quite a bit worse than Dirctv. I did a apples to apples comparsion to Dish and Dirctv is 15-20 dollars more a month. Dish nickels and dimes you for too many things.

And dont forget Directv offers more sport packages. Plus Locals HD is included in most package unlike dish which once again will nickel and dime you 5 bucks a month for that.

I signed my contract just before voom as dropped.


----------



## nataraj

calgary2800 said:


> I signed my contract just before voom as dropped.


I wonder .... is droppping VOOM a good reason for cancelling the contract ?


----------



## normang

nataraj said:


> I wonder .... is droppping VOOM a good reason for cancelling the contract ?


The contract has provisions if channels go. Its not a valid escape from a contract.


----------



## jclewter79

calgary2800 said:


> Actually Dish is quite a bit worse than Dirctv. I did a apples to apples comparsion to Dish and Dirctv is 15-20 dollars more a month. Dish nickels and dimes you for too many things.
> 
> And dont forget Directv offers more sport packages. Plus Locals HD is included in most package unlike dish which once again will nickel and dime you 5 bucks a month for that.
> 
> I signed my contract just before voom as dropped.


With D* you do not have the option to not have locals if they are availble. To me, I would rather not have to pay for them if I wished not to. With D* you do not have that option just like cable. Getting back on topic, I think you ought to be able to pay for the VOOm channels also if you wish.


----------



## normang

The big thing that seems to be overlooked is the issues Dish had with Voom and vice versa.. There were lots of issues, and its strange that for months, hardly anyone had a good things to say about Voom and now that they are gone, you would think they had the greatest programming since sliced bread.. which was not the case.

Sure at any given time, some Voom channel might have had something on that someone wanted to watch, but I'm sorry, I am not buying it that its the only thing that some people watched or watched routinely, with some perhaps really rare exception.

Will it be back? Who knows.. I know I don't miss it much...


----------



## grog

For the record:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1031293&postcount=24
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1031293
and
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1404459&postcount=9
and
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1409009&postcount=15

While I did not post a lot on this forum about Voom I did post a few comments before Voom was removed.

Maybe I am not like everyone else. Maybe everyone else thinks Voom is a piece of crap that should have been removed long ago..

For me Voom was something I watched, recorded and enjoyed a great deal. I was very public about it. When I talked to others about SAT choices I would always say that Dish had the edge due to Voom content.

I also know that I am not alone in selecting Dish based on Voom lineup.

It was not just Rave... I also liked EQUTR and watching foreign films was something I also enjoyed on Voom.

Look at it this way:
:rant: 
I also like Bowling! Now most 'intelligent' people know that Baseball is a real sport and Bowling is not worth the space to put it on TV... Bull! I like Bowling and I watch it. If Bowling was removed from all the SAT feeds I would lose one sport I like to watch. If it was replaced with shall we say 'Fishing' then I would even feel worse about it. Sure there are people who like Fishing but I am not one of them. Should the 'Fish lovers' have their programming too? Sure .. why not!

If Dish thinks Fish is 'main stream' programming they are dead wrong. Fish is a niche just as Voom and Bowling are.

Maybe Dish should pull all feeds except for QVC, Baseball, Football and reality TV.

See,,, something was taken from me that I enjoyed. I don't care that the kids 'Voom and Dish' could not play together.... I really don't care about there little ego's.

:beatdeadhorse:



> 01-23-08, 12:19 AM
> For sound quality I see no reason to record "Deal or No Deal" in HD. I do however see the need to record RAVE in HD for sound quality.
> 
> For video PQ I see no reason to record "Deal or No Deal" in HD. I do however see the need to record "The Mountian" on EQUTR in all it's HD glory.
> 
> This could be the reason why shows such as "Deal or No Deal" only broadcast in SD. Still I like to watch "Deal or No Deal" so I record it on the SD local. Why record from the HD local. I will get a pretty black bar on the sides of the screen and really for this show I really only want to hear and "sorta see" what is going on.
> 
> What I am saying is it really depends on the content.
> And yes.. Deal or No Deal would be fine in Mono.... RAVE must be 5.1... It's the content that drives what we need not the transport layer used!
> 
> 08-03-07, 12:09 AM
> I love Voom.....





normang said:


> The big thing that seems to be overlooked is the issues Dish had with Voom and vice versa.. There were lots of issues, and its strange that for months, hardly anyone had a good things to say about Voom and now that they are gone, you would think they had the greatest programming since sliced bread.. which was not the case.
> 
> Sure at any given time, some Voom channel might have had something on that someone wanted to watch, but I'm sorry, I am not buying it that its the only thing that some people watched or watched routinely, with some perhaps really rare exception.
> 
> Will it be back? Who knows.. I know I don't miss it much...


----------



## himini

normang said:


> ...its strange that for months, hardly anyone had a good things to say about Voom and now that they are gone, you would think they had the greatest programming since sliced bread.. which was not the case.
> 
> Sure at any given time, some Voom channel might have had something on that someone wanted to watch, but I'm sorry, I am not buying it that its the only thing that some people watched or watched routinely, with some perhaps really rare exception.


I loved and watched A LOT of Voom programming *routinely*. That does not mean that I (or anyone else who liked Voom) would routinely come to these forums and just spontaneously talk about how great Voom was. (In any forum, you are obviously going to hear a lot more about things that make people mad.)

I did, however, _defend_ Voom in a few Voom-bashing threads, and I suppose it'll be nice to not have to deal with those anymore. Of course, in this final Voom thread, there still seem to be several folks getting their last licks in. Nice-- kick us while we're down!


----------



## paulman182

jclewter79 said:


> With D* you do not have the option to not have locals if they are availble. To me, I would rather not have to pay for them if I wished not to. With D* you do not have that option just like cable. Getting back on topic, I think you ought to be able to pay for the VOOm channels also if you wish.


I have read that locals can be excluded from DirecTV packages and save about $5, but you must ask to have them left out.


----------



## Richard King

> For me Voom was something I watched, recorded and enjoyed a great deal. I was very public about it. When I talked to others about SAT choices I would always say that Dish had the edge due to Voom content.


And I have stated the same thing here several times. Dish USED TO be the leader in HD because of Voom. They no longer are the leader. They are now just another satellite/cable company.


----------



## dbconsultant

grog said:


> ...While I did not post a lot on this forum about Voom I did post a few comments before Voom was removed.
> 
> ...
> 
> I also like Bowling! Now most 'intelligent' people know that Baseball is a real sport and Bowling is not worth the space to put it on TV... Bull! I like Bowling and I watch it. If Bowling was removed from all the SAT feeds I would lose one sport I like to watch. If it was replaced with shall we say 'Fishing' then I would even feel worse about it. Sure there are people who like Fishing but I am not one of them. Should the 'Fish lovers' have their programming too? Sure .. why not!
> 
> If Dish thinks Fish is 'main stream' programming they are dead wrong. Fish is a niche just as Voom and Bowling are.
> 
> Maybe Dish should pull all feeds except for QVC, Baseball, Football and reality TV.
> 
> See,,, something was taken from me that I enjoyed. I don't care that the kids 'Voom and Dish' could not play together.... I really don't care about there little ego's.


Ditto!



Richard King said:


> And I have stated the same thing here several times. Dish USED TO be the leader in HD because of Voom. They no longer are the leader. They are now just another satellite/cable company.


Double ditto!

I also have posted defense of Voom. We've had HD for two years and still found stuff to watch on the Voom stations that was new to us.

I have a friend that's been hemming and hawing about going from cable to sat for the last year or so and I kept recommending that she get Dish because they will eventually have the same HD as Direct and had something unique with Voom. They no longer have that distinction so now I'm telling her it makes no difference if she chooses Dish or Direct because, even if they go back and forth with who has what channel when, they eventually catch up with each other and there is no difference between them. At this point, I'm hoping she gets Direct so that I can compare picture quality and equipment for when our contract with Dish expires. At this point, it will be about cost/quality/equipment alone because there's n longer anything unique about Dish. They've lost their edge with me.


----------



## jkramer5

I just got rid of the HD Ultimate package and degraded to HD Essentials. I haven't seen a channel that was lost with voom get replaced by anything better.


----------



## mlgreve

I downgraded my service as well. I was paying for everything $137.99 a month. I downgraded to the A200 with the basic high def channels and I have not missed any channels. My bill went down to $79.99 a month. So I guess we will have to learn to live without the Voom channels. If they were to bring them back I would not pay for them at this point. 137 is just way to much for tv.


----------



## WilliamsBMW

My monthly bill with dish is $149.87. When I looked on their website to
downgrade from $20 to $10 from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials they
want $5 for the change.

Should I have to pay them 5 bucks since they took away my Voom?

Does anyone know what HD channels I will loose by doing the downgrade?

I subscribed to America's Everything plus locals and HD

Thanks

PS Charlie
I am going to hack my programming down like a lot of people are doing
because of what you did with Voom!!


----------



## Chandu

WilliamsBMW said:


> When I looked on their website to
> downgrade from $20 to $10 from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials they
> want $5 for the change.
> 
> Should I have to pay them 5 bucks since they took away my Voom?


No they shouldn't. Don't go to their website for this. Read tons of posts in this thread before this talking exactly about this issue.

Call their number, talk with a human CSR and tell them you're upset about the way this was handled without informing customers properly what was going on, and you shouldn't have to pay $5 for a downgrade due to their unprofessional non-communication. They should handle it just fine.


----------



## Henry

dbenj said:


> And what about DISH's obligations to their subscribers? Many people made investments in DISH equipment based upon diverse selection of channels available from DISH. Now there is nothing to set DISH apart from the other mainstream mind numbing garbage.
> 
> Perhaps DirecTV or Comcast will pick up VOOM... Then it is adios.


In there lies the rub, dbenj. Voom came nowhere's near satisfying Dish's responsibility to its subs ... hence bye-bye Voom. For the record, I'll take the _"mainstream mind numbing"_ alternates presently offered over Voom as it was. Don't missunderstand, I would love to see Voom return ... but not in its present form. That's the bottom line with me.


----------



## Presence

I cannot believe this crap. For all the complaining about how RaveHD was _supposedly _so repetitive, has anyone been paying attention to MHD? GODAWFUL repetition. I can see a program on the guide, and know what it is likely to be before even looking at the info. "$2 Bill? That's going to be either Kanye West or Yellowcard." Sure enough.


----------



## Henry

Presence said:


> I cannot believe this crap. For all the complaining about how RaveHD was _supposedly _so repetitive, has anyone been paying attention to MHD? GODAWFUL repetition. I can see a program on the guide, and know what it is likely to be before even looking at the info. "$2 Bill? That's going to be either Kanye West or Yellowcard." Sure enough.


Yeah, I sympathize, P ... but MHD answers to advertisers, Voom didn't. Wonder who updates first.


----------



## Hound

HDG said:


> In there lies the rub, dbenj. Voom came nowhere's near satisfying Dish's responsibility to its subs ... hence bye-bye Voom. .


Do not agree. First of all in a 250 channel environment, there are always going to be many subs thst do not like certain programming.

Many subs that liked Voom only had a one or two hour window a day or a couple of hours a week to watch Voom. There was plenty of high quality content for these subs. I liked that Voom repeated because if I missed something or started watching something after the beginning, I would use one of my ballyhhooed E* DVRs to record a future episode.
The last night that Voom was on I watched an Equator HD show on Blue Whales with the sound turned up and on an adjacent TV, I had a D* MLB EI HD game with the sound turned off.

Voom went bye bye because E* made a bad deal in the beginning and this is E*s way of getting out of a bad deal. Voom should have never been part of a $20 basic HD package. Voom's value is as a niche optional package. If Voom is going to survive, Cablevision needs to redo Voom's business plan and market it as a premium option.

The E*/Voom relationship was a two way street. Cablevision ended up with a partner E* who was not
positioned to compete for new HD subs. Its not Voom's fault that E* did not offer HD RSNs at all in 2006 or HD locals in many many markets.
It was E* that completely ignored HD at CES 2007. 
E* was not adding HD subs because of poor decisiions, not Voom. As these posts show, Voom had a very good following among 
many E* subs.


----------



## Hunter Green

It's a moot point. We keep getting new channels at no added charge; not just this last batch, but several others. If we lose a few, expecting to get a refund for them is dumb. You can complain that they took away channels they shouldn't've, or that the ones they added weren't as good for you, sure. But that's different.


----------



## Richard King

Hound said:


> Voom went bye bye because E* made a bad deal in the beginning and this is E*s way of getting out of a bad deal. Voom should have never been part of a $20 basic HD package. Voom's value is as a niche optional package. If Voom is going to survive, Cablevision needs to redo Voom's business plan and market it as a premium option.


Bingo!!! We have a winner. THIS is exactly why Voom went away. The fact that Voom didn't spend enough per the contract was only the excuse used.


----------



## kosha

The poll results at the top of this thread are useless. I can see why lot of DirecTv supporters will be voting for the second option. It's sour grapes for them.


----------



## Hound

Richard King said:


> Bingo!!! We have a winner. THIS is exactly why Voom went away.


Correct because if Cablevision would have renegotiated instead of filing an action and allowed 
E* to put Voom in HD Ultimate, Voom would still be available to E* subs.


----------



## tsmacro

Well since Voom just filed a breach of contract lawsuit against Charlie I guess any hopes of Voom coming back soon are pretty much dashed. Too bad.


----------



## Henry

Richard King said:


> Bingo!!! We have a winner. THIS is exactly why Voom went away. The fact that Voom didn't spend enough per the contract was only the excuse used.


Gee ... so glad you and Hound were at the negotiating table back then. If not for that, we'd all be in the dark.


----------



## Hound

HDG said:


> Gee ... so glad you and Hound were at the negotiating table back then. :


The parties at the negotiating table thought they were making a good deal. I am just a monday morning quarterback with the benefit of hindsight. If a deal is not working both sides have to give a little.


----------



## alxlevin

VOOM amended complaint:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=25244&d=1212166279


----------



## AVJohnnie

alxlevin said:


> VOOM amended complaint:
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=25244&d=1212166279


Seems to me that this court filing brings to light an interesting allegation about Dish's possible role in regards to the repetitiveness of Voom's programming...


----------



## Henry

Hound said:


> The parties at the negotiating table thought they were making a good deal. I am just a monday morning quarterback with the benefit of hindsight. If a deal is not working both sides have to give a little.


I concede that the jury is still out on this whole thing, but I would appreciate it if you guys would also concede that your opinions are just that. Making authoritative-sounding statements without basis in fact is sheer speculation and misleading to the unwary.

And while both sides have to give a little when a deal goes sour, how come E* gave up a seeming lucrative niche and opted out, while the supposed cash cow is screaming bloody murder? Now that's the stuff of speculation!


----------



## Hound

That is a good read over at satellite guys. So E* only had 20,000 HD subs at the
end of 2005. No wonder E* did not add HD RSNs in 2006. The Cablevision financial statements seem to be correct. E* had about 1.3 million HD subs at
the end of 2007 according to Cablevision's complaint. My opinion is still that
E* wanted out of the Voom deal because E* was not competitive with a $20 HD
tier and Cablevision refused to renegotiate (insisted on a $3.25 carriage fee from
E* for all HD subs).


----------



## peak_reception

Can't believe I read the whole filing. What bloat! LOTS of repetition. Could've been more effectively put forth with half the wording. 

Still, looks like there is a good case that E* was looking for an excuse to renegotiate, or terminate, and seized on the 2006 expenditure requirement as an opening to do so. 

I agree that E* made a bad deal starting out and simply wanted out of it as time went on and the $20 HD package including VOOM proved non-competitive in the marketplace. 

Just what E*/DISH needs more of these days; More litigation!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hound said:


> That is a good read over at satellite guys. So E* only had 20,000 HD subs at the
> end of 2005. No wonder E* did not add HD RSNs in 2006. The Cablevision financial statements seem to be correct. E* had about 1.3 million HD subs at
> the end of 2007 according to Cablevision's complaint.


I wonder about the 20,000 number for one reason... "In the beginning" Dish had a $9.95 HD pack... then they added a $5 Voom add-on. Not everyone took the Voom add-on.

Later it was all merged into a $20 HD add-on... and then this year it was split again into Essentials and Ultimate.

But... back during that 20,000 quoted timeframe, the Voom add-on would have been optional... so I'm wondering if that 20,000 figure only reflects Dish HD customers with the Voom package and not total HD customers.

Granted, I don't expect the number back then to be super-huge... and as noted, HD customers are still a small minority of Dish overall subscriptions today... but I'm thinking that 20,000 figure may only be Dish HD Pack + Voom and not total Dish HD customers from 2005.


----------



## wreck

Well, we are about to hit June.......are there any "insiders" here that can tell us realistically what Dish's short term plans are regarding their entire HD offering? Even if they had VOOM -- they are still behind DirectTV in regards to attracting new HD customers.


----------



## calgary2800

I've never been so dissapointed by the addition of more channels. I dont want any of them.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I understand all the lamenting about Voom... I liked it too... but I am surprised that there is already "what have you done for me lately" after the last wave of channel additions. It appears that even if they hadn't sacked Voom, people would still be lamenting that we don't have as much as DirecTV... and yet, the first complaint about the most recent additions is the lack of actual HD on them... so, people complain that DirecTV has more HD channels... then when Dish adds some of them, the same people complain that there is a lack of HD on those channels... but then immediately goes back to complaining that DirecTV has some channels that Dish doesn't?

Voom lamenting aside... I continue to be befuddled by how many want to add all that DirecTV has, even when immediately realizing how little actual HD exists on those channels.


----------



## ibooksrule

what is it with all this HD lite Why does everyone complaign about everything?

You complained when voom was on then now its gone they complain. Even hdnet and hdnet movies repeat. I relaly thing there is no reason to repeat so often. there are millions of movies out there. Why not show more movies?


----------



## Jim5506

HD Lite is what some people call satellite transmission TV resolutions such as 1080i @ 1080X1440 or 1080X1280 instead of @ 1080X1920, even though 75% of HDTV's out there cannot display 1080X1920.


----------



## calgary2800

Oh My God, its 810pm Seattle time and the Travel Channel HD is showing World Poker Tour from 8-10. This is our channel thats shows the world in HD? This is a disgrace. I am not joking. The Travel Channel is showing poker in all its black bar SD glory. 

Thanks Dish.


----------



## grog

I feel asleep watching the World Poker Tour..
Yes I was watching it.
Funny thing is, when I woke up they must have been on the next eposide.
Yes it was the same eposide I had watched before I feel asleep.

I won't say it was a repeat... Voom had repeats! I will just say it was more of a good thing. :lol:

I am watching 'Get Shorty' which I recorded off of MGM a while back. I have the movie on DVD but hey it does look better in HD.

I for one don't mind that HD channels are showing SD programs. What I don't like is that I don't know it's not HD until I look at the program.

There should be a flag of some kind to tell us it's HD or SD. 
Let's say we see some event or movie coming up that we might want to record to watch later. We get home and press play only to find the HD event is in fact SD.

Now if the program guide said 'This HD program is SD with gray bars' or 'This HD program is simply plain old SD'. Then I could skip recording it. Save me the time of deleting it when I got home to watch it.

The problem could be really bad if two stations were showing the same movie. One in HD and the other in SD. Now if both were HD channels how the hell would you know which one to record?

At least with the Voom channels it was all HD all the time.



calgary2800 said:


> Oh My God, its 810pm Seattle time and the Travel Channel HD is showing World Poker Tour from 8-10. This is our channel thats shows the world in HD? This is a disgrace. I am not joking. The Travel Channel is showing poker in all its black bar SD glory.
> 
> Thanks Dish.


----------



## Paul Secic

calgary2800 said:


> Oh My God, its 810pm Seattle time and the Travel Channel HD is showing World Poker Tour from 8-10. This is our channel thats shows the world in HD? This is a disgrace. I am not joking. The Travel Channel is showing poker in all its black bar SD glory.
> 
> Thanks Dish.


I like Travel Channel HD almost everynight after my 5PM movie.


----------



## dbenj

HDG said:


> In there lies the rub, dbenj. Voom came nowhere's near satisfying Dish's responsibility to its subs ... hence bye-bye Voom. For the record, I'll take the _"mainstream mind numbing"_ alternates presently offered over Voom as it was. Don't missunderstand, I would love to see Voom return ... but not in its present form. That's the bottom line with me.


There are always two sides to most disputes. VOOM's side of the story in their amended complaint (you can get the link in an earlier post) does not square with "nowhere's near satisfying Dish's responsibility to its subs." Dish's responsibility to its subs? Trust me, it seems clear it was not Dish meeting some idealistic "responsibility to its subs." As others suggest, Dish was simply looking for a way out of a deal it had made that it no longer felt they needed.

Dish and VOOM had a deal in which VOOM, already a leader in HD programing, would invest in HD programming and provide it to Dish at a loss in the early years, with VOOM's payback coming in later years of the agreement when it's revenues would increase with the increase in Dish HD subscribers. There were requirements for programming investment, cure, and payment escalation.

Dish got the benefit of the early year HD subscriber growth, from 20,000 to 1,300,000, and then when the payback to VOOM was beginning, Dish tried to change the deal. VOOM wouldn't go along with it, and Dish dumped them... and haven't paid them for the last months before dumping them. I'd like to be seated on the jury when this goes to trial.

I enjoyed the VOOM channels -- Monsters (especially 1 star vintage), Equator, Red Bull Air Races, sailboat racing, curling, (sorry, not bowling), and many, many other channels. VOOM had a LOT of programming that will never make it on the major networks.

Tonight, I just went through all my subscribed channels, 250 or so of them, and there is NOTHING on worth watching.

I doubt that I will stay with Dish.


----------



## James Long

dbenj said:


> There are always two sides to most disputes. VOOM's side of the story in their amended complaint ...


Why was the complaint amended? The initial filing was intended to force DISH to not cancel their contract with Voom ... the injunction was denied. DISH ended the contract. Now they come back complaining that the contract was ended - but why wouldn't the back story be the same as before?

It seems that Voom is padding their story in the second telling because the first telling was not compelling enough (in the judge's opinion) to win the case.



> Tonight, I just went through all my subscribed channels, 250 or so of them, and there is NOTHING on worth watching.
> 
> I doubt that I will stay with Dish.


And where will you go? Will you find something worth watching on the few channels not on DISH?


----------



## Henry

dbenj said:


> There are always two sides to most disputes. VOOM's side of the story in their amended complaint (you can get the link in an earlier post) does not square with "nowhere's near satisfying Dish's responsibility to its subs." Dish's responsibility to its subs? Trust me, it seems clear it was not Dish meeting some idealistic "responsibility to its subs." As others suggest, Dish was simply looking for a way out of a deal it had made that it no longer felt they needed.
> 
> Dish and VOOM had a deal in which VOOM, already a leader in HD programing, would invest in HD programming and provide it to Dish at a loss in the early years, with VOOM's payback coming in later years of the agreement when it's revenues would increase with the increase in Dish HD subscribers. There were requirements for programming investment, cure, and payment escalation.
> 
> Dish got the benefit of the early year HD subscriber growth, from 20,000 to 1,300,000, and then when the payback to VOOM was beginning, Dish tried to change the deal. VOOM wouldn't go along with it, and Dish dumped them... and haven't paid them for the last months before dumping them. I'd like to be seated on the jury when this goes to trial.
> 
> I enjoyed the VOOM channels -- Monsters (especially 1 star vintage), Equator, Red Bull Air Races, sailboat racing, curling, (sorry, not bowling), and many, many other channels. VOOM had a LOT of programming that will never make it on the major networks.
> 
> Tonight, I just went through all my subscribed channels, 250 or so of them, and there is NOTHING on worth watching.
> 
> I doubt that I will stay with Dish.


And, of course, watching a repeat program on Voom right now - one that you have seen over and over again, and that will predictably air 100 more times in the months to come - will sway you to stay with E*?

Give me a break! Argue all you want about the business end on their deal, but don't try to ram stale and mind-numbingly-repetitive programming dowm my throat ... because in the final analysis, me and a few thousand other subs agree that we were not getting a service as much as we were witnessing a very boring closed loop.


----------



## grog

When the plug was pulled we were right in the middle of a new season of 'Jools Holland'. A new show once a week on Rave.

I still think most here don't get the concept of repeats. Did you see Rollerball on MGM.. If not it has been airing several times a day for the last couple of weeks.

Do you like TVLAND... Guess what... They are all about repeat programming.
Some here like repeat programming just as some like to watch fishing shows in SD on a HD channel. Each to his own.

Personally I loved Voom... I know it's gone but don't try to make us who loved Voom into 'idiot's'. We know what we had and now it is gone!

In Voom's place I have found some content worth replacing the programming with. I am recording a good deal off of 'Ovation TV 157'. Yes I have replaced my Voom programming with a SD channel.

No one needs to RAM a thing down anyone.

Hell... Put Voom on at $19.99 a month for the programming and I will buy it.

Voom is better choice to me than any of the other PAY options. I dropped HBO/Showtime when I went to HD mainly due to Voom.

So hell yes... Make Voom a pay channel... I'm in.... Then maybe we won't see comments about shoving and RAMMING.



HDG said:


> And, of course, watching a repeat program on Voom right now - one that you have seen over and over again, and that will predictably air 100 more times in the months to come - will sway you to stay with E*?
> 
> Give me a break! Argue all you want about the business end on their deal, but don't try to ram stale and mind-numbingly-repetitive programming dowm my throat ... because in the final analysis, me and a few thousand other subs agree that we were not getting a service as much as we were witnessing a very boring closed loop.


----------



## Henry

There is no reasoning with those clinging to emotions.


----------



## calgary2800

Yeah, the amount of SD on these HD channels is really an insult to us all. I record shows to see the Grand Canyon, Alaska, Nature in HD and than when I watch its in SD with black bars. I was jealous of Dirctv's before voom was pulled and now I know they dont have much either. Does Dish have quality control in mind with this latest move.


----------



## dbenj

James Long said:


> Why was the complaint amended? The initial filing was intended to force DISH to not cancel their contract with Voom ... the injunction was denied. DISH ended the contract. Now they come back complaining that the contract was ended - but why wouldn't the back story be the same as before?
> 
> It seems that Voom is padding their story in the second telling because the first telling was not compelling enough (in the judge's opinion) to win the case.
> 
> And where will you go? Will you find something worth watching on the few channels not on DISH?


The complaint is a prelude to a lawsuit. The objectives are different. That is why the complaint has changed.

Where will I go? Probably to a plan a lot less expensive. Or perhaps someone else will pick up VOOM.


----------



## Chandu

Voom Claims More Than $1 Billion In Damages From Dish Diss


----------



## Michael P

If Voom was offered as a separate package that could have been subscribed to without also subbing to the "base" HD package (the one that gives you the HD versions of SD channels) I might have subbed to it early-on.

I have an HD receiver with no HDTV. I could not see spending money on a package to get duplicate programming that I was already getting in SD. Voom was all original programs. That was something that might have interested me. 

I was recently upgraded to an MPEG4 capable receiver, but still no HDTV. The Voom channels were dropped just before the 622 got hooked up.


----------



## grog

Voom is what made me switch to the HD hardware/package.

For me it was a big move.

I had four 311's.

I had one 311 connected to my computer system via S-VIDEO and I was using MCE2005.
The second 311 was connected to my wife's computer view S-VIDEO and she was using MCE2005.

MCE2005 actually worked very well. With the Microsoft IR remote I could schedule and record programs just fine.

Each computer had 600GB for media ( two 300GB drives in Raid-0 ).

Both computers also were connected to our large HD set. So we could watch what we wanted to on our own computer or we could feed what we were watching to the main set in out entertainment room.

Both computer systems also had a ATI HDTV WONDER card for OTA programming.

Had another 311 in the kitchen and one in our bedroom.

When I went HD it was more than a simple change of 'lets get a new BOX'. I was dropping the concept of using MCE2005 and going the consumer route.

I no longer watch TV on my computer. We have two VIP622 boxes which work very well. While I don't plan to go back I will say this.... When I decided to switch to Dish HD Voom was the reason. Now if I had to make the decision today I could not justify it. I would not go back mind you..

Voom was content I could get no other way then to make a change. For me it was a big change. If Voom was not available back when I decided to go Dish HD I would not have seen the need to change. I got enough HD via OTA and other content.

Now that I have Dish HD there is just enough 'original content' to keep me from dropping the plan. If they dropped for example 'HDNet' I don't think I could see a reason to stay.

Here is a question that I think would be hard for most to answer:

Let's say there is a great movie on TCM or HBO for example. Some station that does not have commercials. The movie is also uncut.

Now would you prefer to watch the movie on TCM or HBO in SD or would you prefer to watch the same movie with 'beeps' and commercials on lets say ... USA-HD?

HD today is not about content... it is all about quanity.



Michael P said:


> If Voom was offered as a separate package that could have been subscribed to without also subbing to the "base" HD package (the one that gives you the HD versions of SD channels) I might have subbed to it early-on.
> 
> I have an HD receiver with no HDTV. I could not see spending money on a package to get duplicate programming that I was already getting in SD. Voom was all original programs. That was something that might have interested me.
> 
> I was recently upgraded to an MPEG4 capable receiver, but still no HDTV. The Voom channels were dropped just before the 622 got hooked up.


----------



## Henry

Michael P said:


> If Voom was offered as a separate package that could have been subscribed to without also subbing to the "base" HD package (the one that gives you the HD versions of SD channels) I might have subbed to it early-on.
> 
> I have an HD receiver with no HDTV. I could not see spending money on a package to get duplicate programming that I was already getting in SD. Voom was all original programs. That was something that might have interested me.
> 
> I was recently upgraded to an MPEG4 capable receiver, but still no HDTV. The Voom channels were dropped just before the 622 got hooked up.


If you don't have an HDTV, you don't really know what all the fuss is about. SD does not compare to its HD counterparts.

And while I'm not overly distraught over Voom's departure, many others are for reasons you may never appreciate until you take the plunge and get an HDTV.


----------



## James Long

grog said:


> Here is a question that I think would be hard for most to answer:
> 
> Let's say there is a great movie on TCM or HBO for example. Some station that does not have commercials. The movie is also uncut.
> 
> Now would you prefer to watch the movie on TCM or HBO in SD or would you prefer to watch the same movie with 'beeps' and commercials on lets say ... USA-HD?


Given the choice between uncut SD and cut SD or uncut HD and cut HD (same resolution - cut vs uncut) I'd probably choose the cut version depending on content. There are movies that have decent plots and action that simply go over the top on language and content (I guess they want an R rating). I'd rather have the cut version - and wish that the studios would PROVIDE a pre-cut version on DVD for those customers who don't want the R content.

That would make the USA-HD cut version more valuable than the HBO SD or HD version or a TCM SD uncut version. And yes, it is weird to some folks but that would make an edited SD more desirable than an unedited HD.


> HD today is not about content... it is all about quanity.


I disagree. It is about content. The precise content that the individual viewer wants to see.

If a viewer wants to see every possible frame of NASCAR in HD they are going to want a subscription with FOX HD, ABC HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, SPEED HD and starting this weekend TNT HD. (They may also want HDNet HD.) If they don't get all of those networks in HD they will likely settle for watching the SD versions and looking forward to the HD broadcasts. They want that content.

If a viewer wants to see BSG they will watch it wherever they can but _prefer_ to watch it in HD. They may even take their money elsewhere to get their content in HD.

If there is a channel that plays the type of movie they want to see they want that channel for the content ... even if the channel repeats the same movie three or four times each day it is aired, that just adds opportunity to get the content. (We can't watch TV 24x7 anyways.)

It's all about the content ... the precise individual content that each person wants.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> It's all about the content ... the precise individual content that each person wants.


And there are thousands of us persons who do need to be aware of the HD "release." We have to start thinking of it as a "release" process - when a network is going to offer HD, how much it can offer initially, etc. The transition to HD is expensive. None of us really need an HD version of episodes of "Car 54 Where Are You?" even if the channel is in HD.


----------



## dbenj

phrelin said:


> And there are thousands of us persons who do need to be aware of the HD "release." We have to start thinking of it as a "release" process - when a network is going to offer HD, how much it can offer initially, etc. The transition to HD is expensive. None of us really need an HD version of episodes of "Car 54 Where Are You?" even if the channel is in HD.


I'd watch in HD, Gunther.


----------



## RasputinAXP

grog said:


> Now that I have Dish HD there is just enough 'original content' to keep me from dropping the plan. If they dropped for example 'HDNet' I don't think I could see a reason to stay.
> 
> Here is a question that I think would be hard for most to answer:
> 
> Let's say there is a great movie on TCM or HBO for example. Some station that does not have commercials. The movie is also uncut.
> 
> Now would you prefer to watch the movie on TCM or HBO in SD or would you prefer to watch the same movie with 'beeps' and commercials on lets say ... USA-HD?
> 
> HD today is not about content... it is all about quanity.


On the first point, original content is why Voom got dropped in the first place. There's plenty of content on HDNet to satisfy everyone. My wife's in the living room watching the Barenaked Ladies concert right now. On Voom there was only so often I could watch the same stuff; to me it became more of a delayed on-demand channel, which is what some people are most broken up about.

If I could get Mojo HD I'd be a lot happier, it's the only HD channel I really miss after getting away from Comcast. Lots of drinking shows on there. Wine, beer...anyway, I'd also be one of the votes in "I'll take the HD version" despite beeps and cuts, with small exceptions.

Case in point, when TNT or USA puts Godfather or Casino on, it's horrible. "Frig you! NO FRIG YOU!"

Doesn't mean I won't watch it necessarily, but I prefer the HD to the SD so I'll take it.


----------



## grog

That is why I asked the question (HD with commercials verses SD without).

Myself... I am torn between the two.

Let me give you an example...
Years ago when I had a VCR I recorded "Back to the Future" off of local TV channel. Sometime later I bought the tape. 
Problem is... when ever I see a specific seen I get up to go to the bathroom or get something to drink. Reason... I was expecting the commercial. :lol: 
I also did not like the sub over lines. "Let's see if these guy's can do 90'.

Still I do find myself watch HD content a good deal over SD simply for the quality.

When I first got a OTA setup, which was on my computer, I watched a lot of PBS-HD. I would never watch cooking shows in SD but on PBS-HD I loved watching them. I found myself watching PBS-HD more than any other channel... why... it was all HD all the time.

But here is the deal....

I see a movie on HD and I say.. great I will record that movie. And low and behold... That movie is in SD... Now the channel is HD but not the movie. If the same movie was on another channel and was not cut then I would feel ripped. It's one thing to watch HD and live with the commercials and cut in content to make the show fit in a given timeframe but if the content is lacking "ie... it's still SD" then I find no reason to watch it.

The nice thing about Voom, no matter how anyone else feels about the package,,,, it was HD all the time.

Now I am not saying I expect all the HD stations to be HD all the time.. I understand the complex nature of doing that... What I would like to see is simple, the program guide should state if the content is 'HD' or not.

* This program is in 16:9 HD
* This program is in 4:3 SD 

For the record I do hate that we do not have Voom now. But there is enough HD content to keep me here. I just don't think there is enough 'looking at Fishing channel for an example'.

The sports channels are worse. With extra sports packages I see a lot of Sports HD channels. FOX...etc... But 99% of the time there is not so much as a single event on these channels. That is what I mean about quanity... hell of a lot of HD channels that are not showing anything at all. And add in the HD channels showing a good deal of SD... Well that is were we are at today.. I know... over time it will get better... One day maybe we will see some more 'HD only' channels that do not show SD content.

For now... I watch a good deal of hdnet.. I also do watch a lot of TCM.. mainly because in black-in-white even SD looks good on a large screen.


----------



## Henry

I'll take HD in all instances, but I agree with grog ... unannounced SD on an HD channel (albeit temporary) is at best frustrating.


----------



## tigerhonaker

Personally I MISS the VOOM Monster HD Channel.

If No else liked it is not a question here on my Post.

I liked it.

Terry


----------



## MarcusInMD

tigerhonaker said:


> Personally I MISS the VOOM Monster HD Channel.
> 
> If No else liked it is not a question here on my Post.
> 
> I liked it.
> 
> Terry


Yeah, the new channels are basically a waste of bandwidth. 3 or 4 voom channels always had something on to watch - most of these channels we received a few weeks ago are almost worthless when it comes to HD content. The consumers get screwed again.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I hate to say this... because I like Voom... and Monsters in particular... but I did check out the June schedule on the MonstersHD Web site... and didn't see anything on this month that wasn't on in the months before... so actually I'm not missing anything this month as it turns out.


----------



## Taco Lover

Is this still being discussed?

Now that it's been awhile, I haven't really missed it. I'm still upset that there's nothing new to replace it, but I'm moving along just fine.


----------



## Richard King

> Now that it's been awhile, I haven't really missed it.


The problem is that you could be on just about ANY other television distribution system and watching the exact same thing that you are now watching on Dish. Voom is what made them different. At first the only thing I watched on Voom was Rave, but, as time went on I got into other channels. Even though they had a high rerun ratio, there was always something of interest on one of their channels that I hadn't seen, even if it was a rerun. Dish now has absolutely nothing to set them apart, in fact, Dish is now the one of the worst multichannel providers since everyone else has just about the same and Directv has a bunch of things that distinguish them from the rest. I have very much missed it.

I used to be a very RAH RAH Dish person, but can't be any longer. I'm even thinking of selling my shares that I bought MANY years ago. It's in my IRA so I would have no taxes to pay on it.


----------



## Henry

Richard King said:


> _[...]_ I'm even thinking of selling my shares that I bought MANY years ago. It's in my IRA so I would have no taxes to pay on it.


Never make a financial decision based on emotions. This is a relatively new industry already booming with change and promises of a bright future. I seriously doubt you've made a bad buy. My guess is your IRA will be better off because of it. In fact, you might want to add a few D* shares to the mix.


----------



## billyfury

I was a Top 200 sub with HD ultimate. I had a 722 plus a 622 and I pay for locals to make the dvr more user friendly. The Voom channels were what I would tune to when friends were over and wanted to see my HD in action. I really miss the all HD Voom channels. The replacements are horrible. Infomercials on what is served to us as HD programming? Give me a break. When I called the third time to complain they offered me a $20 per month credit for 10 months so I kept HD ultimate even though the amount of time I watch the new channels is almost nil. After my 10 months are up I can drop the HD I also shut off the 622. There is not enough HD content to justify 2 HD receivers. So dish's action has cost them $33 bucks a month from me.


----------



## FTA Michael

Voom is available in the UK via Sky. It just announced some VOD HD offerings there. http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/?p=5208


----------



## Richard King

HDG said:


> I seriously doubt you've made a bad buy. My guess is your IRA will be better off because of it. In fact, you might want to add a few D* shares to the mix.


Actually, I made a great buy, but it may be time to shift some. I bought my first Dish shares in Jan 1996 and sold a few a few years ago to buy some Directv (GMHughes at the time). I just don't think that Charlie is doing the job that he was originally. He doesn't seem to be interested in remaining unique or in setting Dish apart from the others. I can't think of one thing that does set them apart now. This could very well effect the stock in the future. I really hate saying this because I have always been a fan of his in the past which is why I invested in the company many years ago.


----------



## dennispap

Doesn't look like Voom International is going away anytime soon.
---------------

VOOM HD Networks Rolls Out New VOD Offerings

NEW YORK, June 11: VOOM HD Networks has launched two VOD offerings to complement its 24/7 linear VOOM HD and RUSH HD channels, which are distributed internationally.

The new VOD services will provide cable and satellite operators who carry VOOM HD and RUSH HD with five monthly hours of VOD programming for each channel. Featuring an exclusive collection of high-definition lifestyle programming on adventure travel, fashion, luxury living, art, live concerts and video gaming, the VOOM HD channel is available in Europe and Asia through various operators. RUSH HD, which recently made its international debut as part of Sky's HD channel lineup and is available in the U.K. and Ireland, is devoted to extreme sports and adrenaline-filled travel. The new VOD offerings will feature signature programming such as Metro BMX Jam: The Road to Singapore, Wings Over Antarctica and the series Nomads.

"VOD is a fantastic complement to linear television," said Glenn Oakley, VOOM HD Networks' senior VP of global operations and business development. "It not only satisfies the appetites of viewers, who are often motivated to seek out more of what they enjoy most, but it also helps fill the void of HD VOD programming. This was a natural progression for us as we build our global distribution offerings."

-By Irene Lew

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=voom061108.htm


----------



## Stewart Vernon

That's interesting that they seem to only offer 2 channels internationally? Or am I misunderstanding something?

If they would have consolidated the domestic distribution into 5-8 channels instead of 15, I suspect we would still have Voom today. Here in the US, their VOD channels wouldn't be valuable since their 15 channels had enough repeats to sort-of similate "on demand".

And remember as always... I liked Voom... but I have to be honest about its faults.


----------



## Paul Secic

Taco Lover said:


> Is this still being discussed?
> 
> Now that it's been awhile, I haven't really missed it. I'm still upset that there's nothing new to replace it, but I'm moving along just fine.


I guess some people havn't noticed VOOMs gone.


----------



## grog

And there are a lot of us who miss Voom a great deal.

Some of us are still mad as hell about the lack of Voom. 

Still we have been worn down. With little hope of Voom coming back to Dish... just the same as no hope for the MLB package... we just live with it or change providers.

Voom ==> How we remember great HD programming.



Paul Secic said:


> I guess some people havn't noticed VOOMs gone.


----------



## Henry

grog said:


> And there are a lot of us who miss Voom a great deal.
> 
> Some of us are still mad as hell about the lack of Voom.
> 
> Still we have been worn down. With little hope of Voom coming back to Dish... just the same as no hope for the MLB package... we just live with it or change providers.
> 
> Voom ==> How we remember great HD programming.


With a 20% stake in it, somehow I don't see E*s future without some kind of Voom in it. Just give it time. I'm thinking Voom2 is right around the corner.


----------



## Ray_Clum

HDMe said:


> That's interesting that they seem to only offer 2 channels internationally? Or am I misunderstanding something?
> 
> If they would have consolidated the domestic distribution into 5-8 channels instead of 15, I suspect we would still have Voom today. Here in the US, their VOD channels wouldn't be valuable since their 15 channels had enough repeats to sort-of similate "on demand".
> 
> And remember as always... I liked Voom... but I have to be honest about its faults.


Two channels internationally:

RAVE HD and
VOOM HD International

Voom HD Int'l bills itself as: "With an unparalleled library of HDTV content culled from 15 original channels, Voom HD offers brilliantly produced niche programs on topics as diverse as sports, fashion, travel, music and the arts."

Looks like they say that there isn't enough content on 15 Voom channels in the US to be worth distribution overseas...


----------



## RasputinAXP

Ray_Clum said:


> Two channels internationally:
> 
> RAVE HD and
> VOOM HD International
> 
> Voom HD Int'l bills itself as: "With an unparalleled library of HDTV content culled from 15 original channels, Voom HD offers brilliantly produced niche programs on topics as diverse as sports, fashion, travel, music and the arts."
> 
> Looks like they say that there isn't enough content on 15 Voom channels in the US to be worth distribution overseas...


If they'd just offer THOSE channels on E* then all of this bickering could be over.


----------



## FTA Michael

To be fair, the problem might be that Voom only has US rights (or North American rights) to some of its content. I'd imagine that someone else has the European rights to Spanish soccer, for example.

For us US viewers, Voom could merge its channels down to half or a third of what it's got now, and with a DVR, you wouldn't miss anything.


----------



## FitzAusTex

Dish called me on Thursday in response to an email I sent the CEO address expressing my displeasure about the removal of the Voom channels. I was informed that E* and 'Cablevision' (rather than Voom or Rainbow Media) were working to come to an agreement that might very well result in the restoration of Voom channels. I was further informed that E* has, and continues to receive more complaints about the removal of Voom than they anticipated. It was explained to me that sometimes the complaints were generalized as the 'Horror channel' or the 'Fashion channel', etc.

I post this not for others to infer that I believe that Voom would be returning in any form to E*, but to add to the information we have out there. Namely, that E* has mounted a campaign to respond via phone to customer complaints about the Voom removal, or at least to respond via phone to my complaint about the Voom removal. I guess they feel they need to, although odd, since E* has publicly stated that Voom isn't important to its customers.


----------



## Richard King

FTA Michael said:


> For us US viewers, Voom could merge its channels down to half or a third of what it's got now, and with a DVR, you wouldn't miss anything.


Bingo. I certainly hope they are considering this and that Voom would be open to this. Even doing this would, for my viewing habits, put Dish BACK in the lead in HD programming. Right now, they aren't even in the competition.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Richard King said:


> Bingo. I certainly hope they are considering this and that Voom would be open to this. Even doing this would, for my viewing habits, put Dish BACK in the lead in HD programming. Right now, they aren't even in the competition.


Prefacing so people don't jump me, that I do like some parts of Voom...

How can Voom catapult Dish from not even being in the competition to being in the lead?

Logically... this implies that none of what is HD on Dish right now is worth having since both Dish and DirecTV have pretty much the same HD outside of Voom... so if Voom by itself catapults Dish from being a non-competitor to being in the lead, this pretty much says that DirecTV isn't even in the competition either nor are cable companies... and if no one is in the competition, there is no competition.

While I do miss parts of Voom and did hope for a compromise (I say "did" because I believe it is no longer going to happen)... even I can't vault Voom to that lofty a space as being so important and great as to render all other channels meaningless.


----------



## Richard King

> How can Voom catapult Dish from not even being in the competition to being in the lead?


Notice that I said for "my viewing habits". The "lead" is strictly a subjective quality. If the two satellite providers have the exact same programming, which for me at this time they do, since I am not a huge sports fan, and one of those providers adds Voom, that one would jump into the lead. Right now, for me, nobody has a lead. They are basically just two companies that have a bunch of SD stuff that is now available as part time HD services, nothing unique with either of them.


----------



## James Long

HDMe said:


> Logically... this implies that none of what is HD on Dish right now is worth having since both Dish and DirecTV have pretty much the same HD outside of Voom... so if Voom by itself catapults Dish from being a non-competitor to being in the lead, this pretty much says that DirecTV isn't even in the competition either nor are cable companies... and if no one is in the competition, there is no competition.


Apparently the competition is stagnant. DirecTV is waiting for their newest satellite to come online so they can add more channels, DISH is launching a new satellite to 110° which will help but have been adding new channels. We're at an odd point where DirecTV has some channels that DISH doesn't have and DISH has some channels that DirecTV doesn't have ... and it isn't the debate of "worthless Voom repeating channels" vs "worthless no-HD MTV channels". There are good channels on both systems that the other system doesn't have.

So is there competition? Or just complacency?

Other than Voom returning Mojo seems to be the only hope.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Richard King said:


> Notice that I said for "my viewing habits". The "lead" is strictly a subjective quality. If the two satellite providers have the exact same programming, which for me at this time they do, since I am not a huge sports fan, and one of those providers adds Voom, that one would jump into the lead. Right now, for me, nobody has a lead. They are basically just two companies that have a bunch of SD stuff that is now available as part time HD services, nothing unique with either of them.


Actually this makes perfect sense to me. I was just confused by the not-being-in-the-competition part of the other post... because what you just said here echoes much of the way I feel... that both companies are relatively level now without Voom.

To me, "not even in the competition" would in imply Dish was far behind... which they were about 4-6 months ago... but now I'd say they've pulled even BUT shot themselves in the foot by dropping Voom completely.


----------



## kal915

> result in the restoration of Voom channels.


well i hope they only put back the good ones, so eveyone can stop ranting about it


----------



## Richard King

But, if they only put back the "good ones" the people who want the "bad ones" will continue to rant.


----------



## lern4483

I think an attempt to restore good will from dish network is essential.
Right now allot of us are furious that 15 24hr HD channels were just dropped.

Putting commercial stations on with little HD content does not cut it.

Im hoping they are trying to come to a resolution. They really both need each other.


----------



## phrelin

FitzAusTex said:


> Dish called me on Thursday in response to an email I sent the CEO address expressing my displeasure about the removal of the Voom channels. I was informed that E* and 'Cablevision' (rather than Voom or Rainbow Media) were working to come to an agreement that might very well result in the restoration of Voom channels. I was further informed that E* has, and continues to receive more complaints about the removal of Voom than they anticipated. It was explained to me that sometimes the complaints were generalized as the 'Horror channel' or the 'Fashion channel', etc.
> 
> I post this not for others to infer that I believe that Voom would be returning in any form to E*, but to add to the information we have out there. Namely, that E* has mounted a campaign to respond via phone to customer complaints about the Voom removal, or at least to respond via phone to my complaint about the Voom removal. I guess they feel they need to, although odd, since E* has publicly stated that Voom isn't important to its customers.


Keep in mind that Charlie indicated in the March CC that we would be getting AMC and IFC in HD, two Rainbow channels, Rainbow being the subsidiary of Cablevision that owns VOOM. I anticipate that something good will come out of the "bundle" but I'm sometimes more optimistic than I should be - not very often.:lol:


----------



## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> Keep in mind that Charlie indicated in the March CC that we would be getting AMC and IFC in HD, two Rainbow channels, Rainbow being the subsidiary of Cablevision that owns VOOM. I anticipate that something good will come out of the "bundle" but I'm sometimes more optimistic than I should be - not very often.:lol:


Perhaps they'll put Equator HD in AT 250 and up. I refuse to pay $5 to $10 for junk like WFN, UNIHD!


----------



## lern4483

phrelin said:


> Keep in mind that Charlie indicated in the March CC that we would be getting AMC and IFC in HD, two Rainbow channels, Rainbow being the subsidiary of Cablevision that owns VOOM. I anticipate that something good will come out of the "bundle" but I'm sometimes more optimistic than I should be - not very often.:lol:


Man, that would be great! I feel, just a hunch, that we might see some form of Voom soon.

But its a feeling, I myself might be too optimistic as well.


----------



## grog

http://www.dishnetworkplanet.com/High Definition/HighDefinition.htm



> VOOM HD Channels
> There seems to be no other channel networks and programming systems that have touched the world like VOOM HD channels. These can be enjoyed not just by those who live in the United States, but also people who are currently in India, Japan, Thailand, Hungary, Australia, South Korea, China, England, Denmark, Finland, the Middle East, and Norway.
> 
> VOOM HD Channels: Only the Best for You
> VOOM HD channels don't only give you TV shows and movies in their sharp images or even in their Dolby Digital audio system. They go beyond than what you can probably expect from an HD channel, making sure that you can obtain the best TV experience for you and the rest of your family:
> 
> 1. Fifteen HD channels to choose from. There are more than 10 channels that can offer you with HD experience. This means that pictures appear to be coming to life, because of their sharp and bright colors and precise movements. What's more, TV programming is good for 24 hours; it's equivalent of 1 full day of nonstop fun and excitement when you're in front of the TV. This is a far cry of what other HD channels can offer to their customers. Shows in HD are usually available during primetime alone.
> 
> 2. No commercial breaks. Do you feel like you're being shortchanged by your chosen HD network for the simpler reason that there are numerous commercials in between? With VOOM HD channels, you can fully enjoy all of your favorite TV shows and movies without any commercial break.
> 
> 3. Dolby Digital surround sound. What's an HD resolution when audio is at its poorest? Today you can simply relax and immerse yourself on the complementing sounds of Dolby 5.1 Digital surround sound.


----------



## James Long

Some retailers don't keep their sites up to date ... or month.


----------



## himini

Apologies for the now "mourning-over-the-death-of-a-close-friend" type behavior (in what has become a nicely cathartic thread for me), but my Lord, let me just say that I am still absolutely devastated by the loss of Voom. I really didn't realize how addicted to it I was. Still much harder for me to find something to watch than it used to be.

All I can say is thank God for SmithsonianHD and MGMHD. They help me out occasionally with the rehabilitation process. (I believe that the initial anger stage has been for the most part overtaken by a feeling of overwhelming sadness.)


----------



## Hound

On the recent Charlie Chat, Charlie stated that he could no longer charge 
E* customers for the Voom programming because it was not the programming that was negotiiated. However, E* is still charging its HD ultimate customers for the 
Voom programming. There was no corresponding reduction in price of the $10 tier when Voom was dropped or a reduction in the HD only package price of $30. His statement may be raised
in the litigation. If E* was smart they would offer a retroactive permanent credit to HD ultimate subs and HD only subs to justify
charlie's statemment.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hound said:


> On the recent Charlie Chat, Charlie stated that he could no longer charge
> E* customers for the Voom programming because it was not the programming that was negotiiated. However, E* is still charging its HD ultimate customers for the
> Voom programming. There was no corresponding reduction in price of the $10 tier when Voom was dropped or a reduction in the HD only package price of $30. His statement may be raised
> in the litigation. If E* was smart they would offer a retroactive permanent credit to HD ultimate subs and HD only subs to justify
> charlie's statemment.


Probably not because, I suspect, the argument will be that at the same time they dropped Voom they also added 22 new channels and didn't raise rates... so from a Dish perspective they figure customers got more channels than they lost and no price increase so it's a done deal.

Granted, they were going to add those channels anyway... so it is semantics and bookkeeping... but it gets around anyone pointing to DishHD or DishUltimate and saying there should have been a price drop after Voom was let go.


----------



## James Long

Ultimate minus 15 Voom plus Smithsonian and MGM HD = same value?
Oops! I forgot Worst Fishing Network SD. THAT makes up the value difference! 

(Essentials includes all the other channels added.)


----------



## kal915

> Some retailers don't keep their sites up to date ... or month.


... or year


----------



## calgary2800

You guys are getting my hopes up for getting some of Voom back. The Travel Channel has been my biggest letdown. SD material, Poker, lousy presentation of HD. While Equator HD wasnt a perfect 10 it at least served my Plasma proud.


----------



## FTA Michael

The Canadian Football League season starts a week from today. If it follows the same schedule as the last couple of years, WorldSport's first exclusive game will be June 27. If I'm a full-HD subscriber and I can't watch these CFL games, I'll be just a little more unhappy.


----------



## levibluewa

http://www.multichannel.com/info/CA6571440.html?nid=2387&rid=908852283


----------



## grog

Cool...












levibluewa said:


> http://www.multichannel.com/info/CA6571440.html?nid=2387&rid=908852283


----------



## FitzAusTex

That's just priceless...


----------



## Deke Rivers

i still am missing KUNG FU and MONSTERS HD..those were my go-to channels when nothing was on..oh well at least my reading has increased and my tv viewing has gone down..and to those that said Voom repeated too much..well MGM and Cinemax HD are not any better


----------



## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> Keep in mind that Charlie indicated in the March CC that we would be getting AMC and IFC in HD, two Rainbow channels, Rainbow being the subsidiary of Cablevision that owns VOOM. I anticipate that something good will come out of the "bundle" but I'm sometimes more optimistic than I should be - not very often.:lol:


Guess what. VOOM'S contract with Cablevision next week. What if they can't agree on a contract? Hmm? VOOM is doomed, or they could offer the "best" VOOM Channels ala carte to any provider.


----------



## James Long

Paul Secic said:


> Guess what. VOOM'S contract with Cablevision next week. What if they can't agree on a contract? Hmm? VOOM is doomed, or they could offer the "best" VOOM Channels ala carte to any provider.


Voom and Cablevision is like a contract between DISH and Echostar ... co-owned businesses generally can work out a deal. 

Voom was created for Cablevision's satellite service ... I expect it will stay around for Cablevision's cable service - just so they have an "edge".


----------



## WanFittit

What's it been - probably a month since Dish cut the service? and since then no direct word to subscribers explaining why, or giving any apology, or a refund for the lesser service.
Looking over the recent threads it seems that we're unlikely to see any. Frankly the programming we're now given, is mainly KRAP. Don't know about anyone else, but I now find I'm watching less and less television in the evening. 
So, it's an easy decision to give a try to the new Uverse offering from AT&T. It's getting closer to me so should be an option soon. If I find that rollout is not imminent, I'll trade down to a minimum Dish package for the time being. 
Seems reasonable to minimize the monthly payment to Dish, as long as they insist that quality programming has no place in their lineup.


----------



## grog

I know what you are talking about.

Over the years I have a large DVD collection. You know... see a DVD when out shopping... and then get home and watch TV instead...

Well now with Voom gone I find more time to watch all those DVD's! 

Thanks Dish.. Now I have the time to watch all those DVD I bought. Oh.. Don't watch dish much anymore these days! 



WanFittit said:


> What's it been - probably a month since Dish cut the service? and since then no direct word to subscribers explaining why, or giving any apology, or a refund for the lesser service.
> Looking over the recent threads it seems that we're unlikely to see any. Frankly the programming we're now given, is mainly KRAP. Don't know about anyone else, but I now find I'm watching less and less television in the evening.
> So, it's an easy decision to give a try to the new Uverse offering from AT&T. It's getting closer to me so should be an option soon. If I find that rollout is not imminent, I'll trade down to a minimum Dish package for the time being.
> Seems reasonable to minimize the monthly payment to Dish, as long as they insist that quality programming has no place in their lineup.


----------



## wallyman

i just cancelled dish yesturday.
went with direct tv.
no voom=no me


----------



## calgary2800

wallyman said:


> i just cancelled dish yesturday.
> went with direct tv.
> no voom=no me


But directv has the same thing as Dish now.


----------



## wreck

wallyman said:


> i just cancelled dish yesturday.
> went with direct tv.
> no voom=no me


So you are expecting to get VOOM on Direct???


----------



## Presence

Now that I have no other selection, it has become quite clear how incredibly repetitive MHD is.


----------



## TBoneit

WanFittit said:


> What's it been - probably a month since Dish cut the service? and since then no direct word to subscribers explaining why, or giving any apology, or a refund for the lesser service.
> Looking over the recent threads it seems that we're unlikely to see any. Frankly the programming we're now given, is mainly KRAP. Don't know about anyone else, but I now find I'm watching less and less television in the evening.
> So, it's an easy decision to give a try to the new Uverse offering from AT&T
> 
> . It's getting closer to me so should be an option soon. If I find that rollout is not imminent, I'll trade down to a minimum Dish package for the time being.
> Seems reasonable to minimize the monthly payment to Dish, as long as they insist that quality programming has no place in their lineup.


The explanation by Charlie on the Charlie chat of why they dropped Voom doesn't count?
From this Charlie Chat Thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=130562

"About Voom, Charlie said, "We helped start Voom in the early days, and we own 20% of the network, but they had some obligations that they had to do to improve the network, and they didn't live up to those obligations. And we're not in the management of Voom, so because of that we took the channels off the air. We offered quite a bit in terms of negotiations, in terms of other channels or other things we could do with Voom, maybe consolidate some of the channels down and get to a more workable number, a little less of the repeats and so forth, but that wasn't acceptable to Voom.
"And so, to make a long story short, they're no longer on the air. We're not having any discussions with them; in fact, we're in litigation with them - a judge has ruled that they're not likely to prevail in anything so far, and that's where we stand today.
"Obviously, as an owner of the company, we'd like to see it be successful and we'd like to see it be programming that our customers want, our customers like, and our customers see value in. But we can't be in a situation where our customers are having to pay for things that aren't what we bargained for or what we think is competitive in the marketplace. And that's the situation.
"So that's where we are today. At this point, I'm not optimistic that Voom will be back on the air or in any form, but we're always open to talk, other than to lawyers. Sometimes because of the lawyers, sometimes professional business people have discussions, but so far, that's the route that they've chosen."


----------



## calgary2800

RIP Voom


----------



## RasputinAXP

TBoneit said:


> The explanation by Charlie on the Charlie chat of why they dropped Voom doesn't count?


Shhhh don't go bringing LOGIC into this!


----------



## Paul Secic

James Long said:


> Voom and Cablevision is like a contract between DISH and Echostar ... co-owned businesses generally can work out a deal.
> 
> Voom was created for Cablevision's satellite service ... I expect it will stay around for Cablevision's cable service - just so they have an "edge".


Personal opinion: Dish should abandon the Ultimate Pak and put those four channels in AEP. I don't want to pay $10 a month for such limited content.


----------



## Richard King

It's a shame. My brother and his family, who have been Dish customers for many years, visited here on Monday and Tuesday of this week. Like me, he has a front projector, but he hasn't made the HD move yet. He said that he is looking to go to HD in the next week and wanted to see what I had (this may have been the main reason for his trip :lol: ). He loved some of the Rave stuff that I played him off the hard drive. I then informed him that it was no longer available and that he should decide strictly on a financial basis since there really is no advantage to Dish now that Voom is gone. He's going with cable to get the triple play. So, I know of at least one customer that has abandoned ship because of this stupid move by Dish.


----------



## Schizm

The silver-lining in all of this is that my wife and I are watching less TV.


----------



## Presence

TBoneit said:


> The explanation by Charlie on the Charlie chat of why they dropped Voom doesn't count?
> From this Charlie Chat Thread.


Read carefully.



WanFittit said:


> What's it been - probably a month since Dish cut the service? and since then no *direct word to subscribers *explaining why, or giving any apology, or a refund for the lesser service.


A thread on dbstalk is not a direct word to subscribers. Is the dbstalk link provided on billing statements? Is there a channel somewhere with 24/7 talk about why VOOM disappeared? There certainly was a channel bragging up the "22 new HD channels."


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Presence said:


> Read carefully.
> 
> A thread on dbstalk is not a direct word to subscribers. Is the dbstalk link provided on billing statements? Is there a channel somewhere with 24/7 talk about why VOOM disappeared? There certainly was a channel bragging up the "22 new HD channels."


Ummm... the thread on DBSTalk quoting Charlie from the Charlie Chat... which was a nationally broadcast program on Dish Network channel 101... and it has been reran several times since the original broadcast.

Granted, there are other ways to communicate with the customer... but broadcasting on a channel that 100% of Dish Network subscribers can view has to constitute direct contact with their customers.


----------



## Geronimo

levibluewa said:


> if he has extra HD space after deleting the VOOM channels he could offer the "Superstation Package" in HD. That move would be another differentiation from Directv.
> 
> I know at least some of these channels are now offered in HD locally (KTLA,WPIX), so turning them CONUS he might be able to pick up a few new subscribers that way.
> 
> Also, I think he has WGNHD on the list from what I've read elsewhere.


Many claim that the digital versions of the superstations are not considered superstations and that DISH cnnot offer them in HD and will have to ceas carrying them completely in Feb. I don't agree with that but it has been widely reported.


----------



## Presence

HDMe said:


> Ummm... the thread on DBSTalk quoting Charlie from the Charlie Chat... which was a nationally broadcast program on Dish Network channel 101... and it has been reran several times since the original broadcast.
> 
> Granted, there are other ways to communicate with the customer... but broadcasting on a channel that 100% of Dish Network subscribers can view has to constitute direct contact with their customers.


Sorry, but if the Charlie Chat was not rerunning continuously 24/7, then that is not good enough.

I saw a "22 new HD channels!" 24/7 channel. I never saw a "Why VOOM is gone" 24/7 channel.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Presence said:


> Sorry, but if the Charlie Chat was not rerunning continuously 24/7, then that is not good enough.
> 
> I saw a "22 new HD channels!" 24/7 channel. I never saw a "Why VOOM is gone" 24/7 channel.


I'm as upset as many about the loss of Voom... but this notification-thing is part of the old argument of how should Dish inform customers of stuff like this.

I've not seen anyone come up with a really good reliable way of reaching all customers that we could all agree was good.


----------



## grog

One way would be for one full week after the 'plug was pulled' dish could have put on those same Voom stations the following comment.



> We at Dish have decided to remove all the channels many of our viewers have come to love. Doing so will allow us to look good on Wall-Street and will give us who are high up in the company a larger bonus this year.
> 
> The change won't be of any benifit to our customers and we don't care. You won't gain anything by this change, in fact you will have less choices.
> 
> We are also going to raise some items. Want to add an external USB drive to your DVR... well we are going to raise the fee for that... why you say... We say 'why not''... More money for us EXEC's....    Remember, you only have to pay the fee once... but for those who do not have the option... it's going to cost you more now!
> 
> We do this because we are mighty and powerful and you can't do a damn thing about it.. so there!
> 
> Your friends at Dish.





HDMe said:


> I'm as upset as many about the loss of Voom... but this notification-thing is part of the old argument of how should Dish inform customers of stuff like this.
> 
> I've not seen anyone come up with a really good reliable way of reaching all customers that we could all agree was good.


----------



## dbenj

HDMe said:


> How can Voom catapult Dish from not even being in the competition to being in the lead?


Voom was what is known in marketing as the discriminator. Without Voom, Dish is just Directv by another name. With Voom Dish is the industry leader.

And it didn't hurt that at that at the time Dish added Voom, Voom had substantially more HD content than Dish!

And I do miss the 1-star movies on the Monster Channel. They are great fun! I used to watch a PBS station in Dallas that had a program called "1 Star Theater" on Sunday evening that was alway a favorite. Apparently Monster Channel didn't have access to all the classics; I never saw "Plan 9 from Outer Space", for example...


----------



## dbenj

Isn't this the critical point of this thread?

"With VOOM Dish is the industry leader, and the preferred provider. Without VOOM, Dish is just DirecTV or Comcast by another name."


----------



## WanFittit

dbenj said:


> Isn't this the critical point of this thread?
> 
> "With VOOM Dish is the industry leader, and the preferred provider. Without VOOM, Dish is just DirecTV or Comcast by another name."


Yup, nail, head that's it - you're spot on.
Why don't the Execs at Dish get it?

Here's another one who's planning to leave the party.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

grog said:


> One way would be for one full week after the 'plug was pulled' dish could have put on those same Voom stations the following comment.


How quick people forget... When Voom was pulled, for about a week Dish left banner slate channels up on 9470 and 9486 (the bookends of the Voom channel locations) stating that those channels had been removed in favor of some other ones.

Dish is never going to tell exactly why they make the decisions they make, especially not with litigation going on... I see people every day demanding that companies tell them everything going on in the boardroom, but customers don't want to share that same info about their daily lives.

Again, not saying Dish handled this correctly at all... but just noting the things that they did do that some folks seem to have not noticed or forgotten.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

dbenj said:


> Isn't this the critical point of this thread?
> 
> "With VOOM Dish is the industry leader, and the preferred provider. Without VOOM, Dish is just DirecTV or Comcast by another name."


I agree with this... except that people use it to then say DirecTV is better than Dish... but if the existing HD lineups without Voom are berated, then they are the same on DirecTV as Dish... so I see no point for a mass exodus or threats.

Lots of people were mad when DirecTV started adding "HD" and swore they would leave if Dish didn't add those same channels... but as Dish adds them, the same folk say "this channel is worthless, no actual HD" as if that was new information that we didn't already know from reading about DirecTV.

I agree just canning the whole Voom package was a mistake and lost the good HD along with the bad... but since it is something no one else has... and clearly more people seemed to hate Voom than like it... and those of us who like it have no other option to get it... it is hard to go too crazy about it when switching providers would just give me more of the same.


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> I agree with this... except that people use it to then say DirecTV is better than Dish... but if the existing HD lineups without Voom are berated, then they are the same on DirecTV as Dish... so I see no point for a mass exodus or threats.
> 
> Lots of people were mad when DirecTV started adding "HD" and swore they would leave if Dish didn't add those same channels... but as Dish adds them, the same folk say "this channel is worthless, no actual HD" as if that was new information that we didn't already know from reading about DirecTV.
> 
> I agree just canning the whole Voom package was a mistake and lost the good HD along with the bad... but since it is something no one else has... and clearly more people seemed to hate Voom than like it... and those of us who like it have no other option to get it... it is hard to go too crazy about it when switching providers would just give me more of the same.


I agree on your last point. People have to buy new equipment & more money out the door.


----------



## Richard King

> clearly more people seemed to hate Voom than like it


I really don't think that this is "clear" at all. Sure, people were complaining about Voom, but, as usual, those who dislike a product are more vocal than those who do like a product.


----------



## jimborst

Richard King said:


> I really don't think that this is "clear" at all. Sure, people were complaining about Voom, but, as usual, those who dislike a product are more vocal than those who do like a product.


The complainers are the more vocal, (on either side) either we had the repeat complainers and now we have the Voom is gone complainers.



WanFittit said:


> What's it been - probably a month since Dish cut the service? and since then no direct word to subscribers explaining why, or giving any apology, or a refund for the lesser service.


I really don't know what else he should have done, it was in the Charlie Chat and he discussed it. The Charlie Chat is always discussed here with a complete recap, so unless you want a personal email, I don't see what else he could do.


----------



## grog

Let's see...

Dish owns part of Voom.
Voom is the edge they had for HD.
They drop Voom and lose their edge.

What else could Charlie do?.... The word 'resign' comes to mind. 

  



jimborst said:


> The complainers are the more vocal, (on either side) either we had the repeat complainers and now we have the Voom is gone complainers.
> 
> I really don't know what else he should have done, it was in the Charlie Chat and he discussed it. The Charlie Chat is always discussed here with a complete recap, so unless you want a personal email, I don't see what else he could do.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

grog said:


> Let's see...
> 
> Dish owns part of Voom.
> Voom is the edge they had for HD.
> They drop Voom and lose their edge.
> 
> What else could Charlie do?.... The word 'resign' comes to mind.


Let's bottom line this then... How many people were signing up with Dish just because of Voom?

Ok... now how many people have left because of the lack of Voom?

For as much as I liked Voom and think dropping it was a mistake, I'm not going to jump to DirecTV or cable just to spite myself since I can't get Voom there either.

I suspect Dish's bottom line is that they have not lost significant subscribers due to dropping Voom and they were not gaining significant new subscribers just for having Voom... so from a business perspective, it is probably a wash... but they are making more money now by not paying for the Voom lineup.


----------



## Richard King

My brother left Dish and went cable when he wanted HD, partially because of a lack of Voom. If Voom were still there he would have gone the Dish route.


----------



## James Long

HDMe said:


> Let's bottom line this then... How many people were signing up with Dish just because of Voom?


How many were _refusing_ to sign up for DishHD because of Voom?

Although they were decent channels and I'm glad DISH had them, forced subscription to Voom over the past two years probably hurt DISH as much as the content helped them. While the competition was pushing a $10 price point DISH was pushing a $20 price point and trying to excuse the high price by saying {whiney voice if you want to imagine that} "but we've got Voom".

That fell apart when DirecTV introduced "channels you actually watch" - and with the constant complaints over Voom's repetitive content. Quality is more than a pretty picture - quality also requires variety - and Voom was proven to lack in that quality when they failed to spend the requisite $100 million dollars on content in 2006. DISH called them on it ... and spent a year debating the issue before putting their fut down - on behalf of their customers - and saying NO.

Why should Voom be in the lowest package when they fail to live up to their side of the deal? They should have accepted their position in DishHD Ultimate and Absolute instead of pushing for a position they forfeited by not honoring the deal they made with DISH.

And now it's the squirming ... the excuses from Voom that didn't come out when they were first challenged on the $100 million spending issue. If they truly believed that Voom was 21 channels and offering 15 via DISH reduced their spending requirements why didn't they say so when challenged early last year? If Voom is 21 channels why is NO CARRIER (including Cablevision) carrying a 21 channel Voom package? The US market was offered 15 channels ... DISH carried them all ... claiming that this was a reduced package two years after it was released is dishonest. Plus they were _still_ shy of the spending requirements even if one "discounted" the package size.

The primary complaints against Voom were the lack of new content and forced subscription (if you want HD from DISH you _must_ subscribe to Voom). DISH should be suing Voom for breach of contract and asking for damages. By not living up to their commitment to DISH they have harmed DISH Network.

DISH does need to realign their pricing now that Voom is gone - either that or add Mojo and several other channels to the Ultimate level to make it worth $10 more that Essentials. But this issue started with Voom's failure. Voom needs to come back willing to accept their place in the universe.


----------



## jimborst

But didn't Charlie have to do something? He could not let Voom get away with NO new programming. Of the channels I watched, and I did watch my share of Voom, the repetition was getting worse. The Family channel had NO new programming in, my guess, over a year. They would play the same Flipper, UFO, etc. over and over, and to add insult the UFO series was only 23 episodes to start with!

I noticed it on other channels too, Equator had a show that I thought was good, Essential Cities, I really enjoyed the one on Vegas, then there would be a different one on, then in a week or so the same Vegas one would be back on. Also any of the Wings Over would look so good in HD.

Charlie had to do something as the Voom network was getting by with murder since they wouldn't add anything new.


----------



## dbenj

Below are the Directv HD channels. Do a comparison with Dish's HD channels and find the compelling reasons to stay with Dish (or to go with initially). I can't find any.

Now assume that VOOM were added back, and do the comparison again. Dish is a much more attractive provider with VOOM!

A&E HD
ABC HD (East)
ABC HD (West)
Animal Planet HD
Big Ten Network HD
Biography Channel HD
Bravo HD
Cartoon Network
CBS HD (East)
CBS HD (West)
Cinemax HD East
Cinemax HD West
CMT HD
CNBC HD+
CNN HD
CSN Chicago HD
CSN Mid-Atlantic HD
CSTV HD
Discovery Channel HD
Disney Channel HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
ESPNews HD
Food Network HD
Fox Business Network HD
Fox HD (East)
Fox HD (West)
FSN Detroit HD
FSN Prime Ticket HD
FSN Southwest HD
FSN West HD
Fuel TV HD
FX HD
HBO HD East
HBO HD West
HD Theater
HDNet
HDNet Movies
HGTV-HD
History Channel HD
MGM HD
MHD
MSG HD
MSG PLUS HD
MTV HD
National Geographic HD
NBA.TV HD
NBC HD (East)
NBC HD (West)
NESN HD
NFL Network HD
NHL Network HD
Nick HD
Science Channel HD
Sci-Fi Channel HD
Showtime HD
Showtime West HD
Showtime 2 HD
Smithsonian Channel HD
SNY HD
Speed Channel HD
Spike HD
Starz Comedy HD
Starz Edge HD
Starz HD East
Starz HD West
Starz Kids & Family HD
TBS in HD
Tennis Channel HD
The 101 HD
The Movie Channel HD
The Weather Channel HD
TLC HD
TNT HD
Toon Disney HD
Universal HD
USA Network HD
VERSUS HD/GOLF CHANNEL HD
VH1 HD
YES HD
Pay Per View channels (15)

Charlie has lead (???) the DBS business from one in which consumers have choices, to one in which DBS is just another commodity -- it doesn't make any difference which one you buy because all providers are all the same. *And if they are all the same, why not get the cheapest?*

Sure, you can say that the business was already headed that way (for SD it has been a commodity for a few years), because it is a normal business cycle. However, there is no reason to race to the bottom!

With full-HD TVs flying out of stores, and husbands around the country looking to justify their large expenditure to the wife, the absence of VOOM makes their job harder.

BTW, without VOOM, what channel do new HDTV owners tune to demonstrate their great picture? For me, it is a Bluray disk!


----------



## AVJohnnie

HDMe said:


> Let's bottom line this then... How many people were signing up with Dish just because of Voom?
> 
> Ok... now how many people have left because of the lack of Voom?
> 
> For as much as I liked Voom and think dropping it was a mistake, I'm not going to jump to DirecTV or cable just to spite myself since I can't get Voom there either.
> 
> I suspect Dish's bottom line is that they have not lost significant subscribers due to dropping Voom and they were not gaining significant new subscribers just for having Voom... so from a business perspective, it is probably a wash... but they are making more money now by not paying for the Voom lineup.


I didn't vote with my feet (though at first I felt ticked enough that I was considering it), but I did vote with my wallet. I have been a subscriber to Dish since 1997. I have always subscribed at the top tier - always that is until the Voom fiasco. Within a week of them shutting down the channels I dropped AEP /w locals + Ultimate and went to the DishHD package /w locals and 4 Movie premiums. Now that's not a huge dent in Dish's earnings but it is about $35.00 a month less for them. And I plan to keep it that way until they improve their offerings again. I find it harder and harder to enjoy the current lineup due to the mind-numbing commercials and stretch-vision. I'm sticking with Dish because there's really no better alternative. But if someone else offered something like the Voom lineup I'd be gone without a moments hesitation.


----------



## grog

Me too on this one:



> I'm sticking with Dish because there's really no better alternative. But if someone else offered something like the Voom lineup I'd be gone without a moments hesitation.


----------



## dbenj

AVJohnnie said:


> But if someone else offered something like the Voom lineup I'd be gone without a moments hesitation.


Agreed. After the Olympics, I plan to either a) Take advantage of DirecTV new subscriber deals, or b) seriously downgrade Dish and upgrade Netflix.


----------



## Paul Secic

dbenj said:


> Below are the Directv HD channels. Do a comparison with Dish's HD channels and find the compelling reasons to stay with Dish (or to go with initially). I can't find any.
> 
> Now assume that VOOM were added back, and do the comparison again. Dish is a much more attractive provider with VOOM!
> 
> A&E HD
> ABC HD (East)
> ABC HD (West)
> Animal Planet HD
> Big Ten Network HD
> Biography Channel HD
> Bravo HD
> Cartoon Network
> CBS HD (East)
> CBS HD (West)
> Cinemax HD East
> Cinemax HD West
> CMT HD
> CNBC HD+
> CNN HD
> CSN Chicago HD
> CSN Mid-Atlantic HD
> CSTV HD
> Discovery Channel HD
> Disney Channel HD
> ESPN HD
> ESPN2 HD
> ESPNews HD
> Food Network HD
> Fox Business Network HD
> Fox HD (East)
> Fox HD (West)
> FSN Detroit HD
> FSN Prime Ticket HD
> FSN Southwest HD
> FSN West HD
> Fuel TV HD
> FX HD
> HBO HD East
> HBO HD West
> HD Theater
> HDNet
> HDNet Movies
> HGTV-HD
> History Channel HD
> MGM HD
> MHD
> MSG HD
> MSG PLUS HD
> MTV HD
> National Geographic HD
> NBA.TV HD
> NBC HD (East)
> NBC HD (West)
> NESN HD
> NFL Network HD
> NHL Network HD
> Nick HD
> Science Channel HD
> Sci-Fi Channel HD
> Showtime HD
> Showtime West HD
> Showtime 2 HD
> Smithsonian Channel HD
> SNY HD
> Speed Channel HD
> Spike HD
> Starz Comedy HD
> Starz Edge HD
> Starz HD East
> Starz HD West
> Starz Kids & Family HD
> TBS in HD
> Tennis Channel HD
> The 101 HD
> The Movie Channel HD
> The Weather Channel HD
> TLC HD
> TNT HD
> Toon Disney HD
> Universal HD
> USA Network HD
> VERSUS HD/GOLF CHANNEL HD
> VH1 HD
> YES HD
> Pay Per View channels (15)
> 
> Charlie has lead (???) the DBS business from one in which consumers have choices, to one in which DBS is just another commodity -- it doesn't make any difference which one you buy because all providers are all the same. *And if they are all the same, why not get the cheapest?*
> 
> Sure, you can say that the business was already headed that way (for SD it has been a commodity for a few years), because it is a normal business cycle. However, there is no reason to race to the bottom!
> 
> With full-HD TVs flying out of stores, and husbands around the country looking to justify their large expenditure to the wife, the absence of VOOM makes their job harder.
> 
> BTW, without VOOM, what channel do new HDTV owners tune to demonstrate their great picture? For me, it is a Bluray disk!


There are 12 million + Dish customers who still have SD. Dish has to keep it's SD customers happy for many years to come. Many customers might say: what's VOOM?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Paul Secic said:


> There are 12 million + Dish customers who still have SD. Dish has to keep it's SD customers happy for many years to come. Many customers might say: what's VOOM?


Voom or No Voom, I would leave in a minute if Direct would had DLB on there systems. I can get by on some of the other shortcomings of the Direct DVR, 
and the Family's distaste for the interface, but NO DLB, is a deal breaker.

Nice thing about Voom was it was All HD content, and commerical Free, but out of the 15+ Channels and reading all these posts no more than 6-7 are on the list, that the even the Hardline Voom Supporters support, that means over half had an even smaller following. I mess 3 of the Voom Channels, but I have learned to leave without them. I would Rather see NFL Package, along with RSNHD package, before a Voom package again.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

There's about a handful of HD channels that Dish has that are not yet on DirecTV. DirecTV has maybe 2 handfuls of HD channels that are not yet on Dish. IF any of those channels matter, then that is where the differentiator would be right now.

By the end of this year I expect both Dish and DirecTV to pretty much have the same HD lineup available, aside from the MLB/NFL "premium" packages and markets where one company has LiL in HD and the other does not.

So I expect we are about 6 months or less away from this whole argument being a moot point.

Unfortunately, the final nails were hammered into Voom and while I will miss it there is no other choice to get it back.


----------



## grog

Based on your comment Dish should forget about HD then. No HD market.. :sure:



Paul Secic said:


> There are 12 million + Dish customers who still have SD. Dish has to keep it's SD customers happy for many years to come. Many customers might say: what's VOOM?


----------



## habe

OMG! I want/need VOOM back right now!!

I had every HD Zatoichi that was ever broadcast on KUNGFU on my 722. They just got accidentally erased and I guess I'll never get them back.

habe


----------



## aloishus27

We just need Voom to fulfill their obligations for new content and everything would be OK. 

So to Voom I say to you if you monitor these boards, please settle this so that we can watch your 24/7 HD programming. My TV is crying.


----------



## James Long

First we need a time machine ... Voom blew it back in 2006 by not spending enough. Go back to 2006 and spend about twice as much on content and two things will happen: 1) Voom would have remained within the terms of their contract with DISH and there would be no issue, and 2) More people would have enjoyed Voom due to better/more content.

OK, no time machine available ... now it is up to Voom to suck it up and accept a placement in DISH Essentials at a price that reflects their spending commitment. If they want to be paid the full rate they negotiated for back in 2005 then they need to PAY the full rate they agreed to pay on content back in 2005.


----------



## Richard King

> First we need a time machine


Bingo. They can't solve what they did a couple of years ago.


----------



## dbenj

aloishus27 said:


> We just need Voom to fulfill their obligations for new content and everything would be OK.
> 
> So to Voom I say to you if you monitor these boards, please settle this so that we can watch your 24/7 HD programming. My TV is crying.


Frankly, I don't care a whit whether VOOM met their obligation or not. I don't have a contract with Voom. I have do have a business relationship with Dish, and I give them a lot of money monthly for a programming package. Clearly, the Dish programming had a substantially higher value with VOOM. IMHO without VOOM, it is not worth the price.

I agree with the sentiment that it would be great for Dish and VOOM to settle their dispute before I have to learn to use a new controller...


----------



## snowcat

While Voom was a reason for me to switch from cable to Dish in May last year, the free HD equipment was a much bigger reason. With 3 HD sets, there isn't a better deal than Dish. I got a 622 and two 211's for free, plus $20 off my bill for a year. With DirecTv, I would have paid at least $200 for that setup. 

In the beginning, I did watch a lot of Voom, mainly Kung Fu and Monsters. But as the shows began to get repeated over and over again, I was very ready to switch to the $10 HD package in February this year. 

For a subscriber like me, all I saw is a big increase in HD channels (the AT250 package helps as well). I am more than happy with Dish and don't plan to switch to something else anytime soon. I understand why some subscribers are sad and disappointed by the loss of Voom, but I would imagine that it is a small percentage of Dish's customer base.


----------



## WanFittit

dbenj said:


> Frankly, I don't care a whit whether VOOM met their obligation or not. I don't have a contract with Voom. I have do have a business relationship with Dish, and I give them a lot of money monthly for a programming package. Clearly, the Dish programming had a substantially higher value with VOOM. IMHO without VOOM, it is not worth the price.
> 
> I agree with the sentiment that it would be great for Dish and VOOM to settle their dispute before I have to learn to use a new controller...


That sums it up for me also, as you say Dish are no longer delivering the package we contracted for. I am also baffled by James Long's long diatribe on Voom not meeting an obligation to Dish - how does he have such apparently insider information. In any event the point is moot, as has been pointed out we subscribers are not concerned with inter company machinations.

For all those looking for alternatives - don't just look at big D or Cable - depending on your location the new Uverse or Fios services from AT&T / Verizon could be an option.


----------



## clyde sauls

i just went to www.voom.com and noticed they no longer have the popup about if youre a dishnetwork customer. Wonder if they are trying to work out their differences.


----------



## FTA Michael

WanFittit said:


> I am also baffled by James Long's long diatribe on Voom not meeting an obligation to Dish - how does he have such apparently insider information.


What Dish has been saying in court is that, according to its contract with Dish, Voom had to spend $X on programming, but Voom didn't do that. That's not insider info, that's reading what's published in court.

OTOH, Dish had no obligation to summarily dump Voom. It could have kept Voom on the air as it tried to work out a settlement.

I still miss Voom every day, and I keep hoping that some form of it will return to Dish some day soon. If DirecTV or my local cable system picks up Voom, I'll definitely consider switching.


----------



## aloishus27

WanFittit said:


> That sums it up for me also, as you say Dish are no longer delivering the package we contracted for. I am also baffled by James Long's long diatribe on Voom not meeting an obligation to Dish - how does he have such apparently insider information. In any event the point is moot, as has been pointed out we subscribers are not concerned with inter company machinations.
> 
> For all those looking for alternatives - don't just look at big D or Cable - depending on your location the new Uverse or Fios services from AT&T / Verizon could be an option.


James does not need the insider information, it was on the Charlie Chat, and also in Dish's response to the Voom lawsuit. It has been mentioned on this board in a number of threads.


----------



## aloishus27

clyde sauls said:


> i just went to www.voom.com and noticed they no longer have the popup about if youre a dishnetwork customer. Wonder if they are trying to work out their differences.


If it wasn't there when you went its back now. I just went there less than a minute before this post.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

WanFittit said:


> That sums it up for me also, as you say Dish are no longer delivering the package we contracted for.


The thing about that is, you are getting the package you contracted for, just not the channels. The Terms & Conditions are pretty clear that channel offerings may change without notice. Besides how you or I feel about how it was handled, Dish technically did nothing wrong here.

IF you were paying $5 per month for a Voom package, then they would have to stop charging you the $5 for Voom when they dropped the channels... but if you are paying for Dish Ultimate, which includes Voom + other channels, then you are still paying for Dish Ultimate and still receiving Dish Ultimate... so no breach of contract here.

Again, not saying I like or agree with how things went down... but just pointing out how the Terms & Conditions apply to this kind of situation.


----------



## clyde sauls

I just tried it again using mozilla and internet explorer and still not seeing the popup. I even turned off the popup blocker and refreshed .


----------



## James Long

aloishus27 said:


> James does not need the insider information, it was on the Charlie Chat, and also in Dish's response to the Voom lawsuit. It has been mentioned on this board in a number of threads.


Yep. The battle is quite public when one reads publicly available court documents.

FYI: The NFL Network and separate ESPN lawsuits in NY are under seal, so very little is shared. But the Voom lawsuit in NY cranks out many documents with the details.

Cablevision (Voom owners) also listed the contract terms in their SEC reports. Reading public information can be educational!


----------



## dbenj

HDMe said:


> The thing about that is, you are getting the package you contracted for, just not the channels. The Terms & Conditions are pretty clear that channel offerings may change without notice. Besides how you or I feel about how it was handled, Dish technically did nothing wrong here.


Isn't that known as "bait and switch"?


----------



## James Long

Bait and switch is different. Only the most recent customers signing up could complain about that. For the rest of us it is just a programming package change ... specifically permitted in the contract we agreed to. Not a change in our favor (cutting "Ultimate" down to seven channels for $10 when the primary competition is charging less than $5 for their extra HD tier?) but it is just a package change.

People got the package they expected and paid for ... and when Voom ceased being available DISH stopped offering it. No more "bait" after the switch.


----------



## dbenj

The fact that the contract allows Dish to make the change means that Dish will not face a class action lawsuit. 

But it is still "bait and switch".


----------



## RasputinAXP

dbenj said:


> The fact that the contract allows Dish to make the change means that Dish will not face a class action lawsuit.
> 
> But it is still "bait and switch".


No it's not. As has already been explained, bait and switch is something completely different.

Like I've said before, if Voom would just offer 2 or 3 consolidated channels with less repeats, I'm sure we'd all be happier.


----------



## dbenj

RasputinAXP said:


> No it's not. As has already been explained, bait and switch is something completely different.


From Wikipedia: "In retail sales, a bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute is."

I was lured in by Dish promoting the fact that they had this great programming -- VOOM -- which nobody else had. Because it was apparently unprofitable for Dish to offer VOOM, they are providing an inferior substitute.

What part of "bait and switch" isn't present here? How is it completely different?


----------



## James Long

dbenj said:


> From Wikipedia: "In retail sales, a bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute is."
> 
> I was lured in by Dish promoting the fact that they had this great programming -- VOOM -- which nobody else had. Because it was apparently unprofitable for Dish to offer VOOM, they are providing an inferior substitute.
> 
> What part of "bait and switch" isn't present here? How is it completely different?


Trusting "Wikipedia" (hey, they get it right some times) ...
Was DishHD offered to customers at "at an unprofitably low price"? No.
DISH has not actually claimed that offering VOOM was unprofitable - just that they were not getting their money's worth in programming from the service. Voom promised $100 million a year in content spending and FAILED to deliver.

Was the alleged "bait" package ever delivered to customers? Yes.
For nearly two years _every_ customer that paid $20 for DishHD got the package as advertised. This was not some phantom package made up to trick people. DishHD with Voom was the actual offering.

Again, if the facts were completely different "bait and switch" could apply ... but the facts are what they are. Despite your anger over the issue, DISH offered a package that was available and that many customers actually received for nearly two years. It wasn't a phantom package. It was the actual offering many enjoyed.

BTW: Showing a $120 per month 100 channel HD lineup in a "prices start at $29.99" ad when $29.99 is a "Family Package" with _NO_ (zero, nada) HD ... that's bait and switch. (It also isn't something DISH is doing ... DISH actually has a $29.95 HD package ... with 41 HD channels. The company advertising a long list of HD "starting at $29.99" isn't delivering 41 channels of HD for that price.)

Apparently you were one of the more recent sign ups for DishHD Ultimate ... did you sign up after February 2008?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Speaking of "bait and switch"... IF anyone is guilty of that, per the court documents we've seen thus far, Rainbow Media (Cablevision, Voom, whatever you want to call them) may be the guilty party in that... if it is proven they sold a Voom package with promise of investments, but then chose not to invest but recycle old stuff, that could fit the bill of bait and switch.

Problem is... bait and switch doesn't apply here with what Dish did. I miss some of Voom, and I wish Dish had given us more notice (but legally they may not have been able to do so)... but at the end of the day it is within their terms and conditions.

It is difficult for Dish, or DirecTV or cable, to guarantee channels will always be available. IF HBO goes away, they can stop charging you for HBO... IF all the channels in a particular tier go away they can stop offering that tier... but when channels within a multi-channel tier go away it is not that simple.

For the folks that clamor for a la carte, then you would not get charged for any channel that drops... but when paying by the package, you get what you get.

In some ways think of it like packages of food. With stuff like irregular shaped candy (think peanut clusters) they sell by weight because they can weigh the package to set their price... but sometimes you might get 15 pieces and other times you might get 18 pieces and sometimes 12. There is never a guarantee of quantity of pieces in the bag, just the weight.

In a narrow way, this is similar to Dish bundled offerings. Dish Ultimate currently contains a certain number of channels, but this is not guaranteed to always be there. In the contract you agree to, Dish says they can change offerings without notice.

Now, while I see lots of folks screaming "I want money back because you dropped channels"... I never see anyone saying "Please let me pay more for those new channels you just added".

IF consumers truly want fairness... then each time Dish adds a new channel to the pack, we should add extra dollars to our bill voluntarily, right? I mean, if the argument is Dish owes us money for dropping channels then we must owe them money for adding? Personally, I don't want to go down that road!


----------



## AVJohnnie

HDMe said:


> ...In some ways think of it like packages of food. With stuff like irregular shaped candy (think peanut clusters) they sell by weight because they can weigh the package to set their price... but sometimes you might get 15 pieces and other times you might get 18 pieces and sometimes 12. There is never a guarantee of quantity of pieces in the bag, just the weight.
> 
> In a narrow way, this is similar to Dish bundled offerings. Dish Ultimate currently contains a certain number of channels, but this is not guaranteed to always be there. In the contract you agree to, Dish says they can change offerings without notice.
> 
> Now, while I see lots of folks screaming "I want money back because you dropped channels"... I never see anyone saying "Please let me pay more for those new channels you just added"...


Perhaps using "consumable food stuffs" as the correlative is a bit unfortunate as doing so brings the ugly specter of content purity into question. Just as I would find an adulterated food product unacceptable, I find the substitution of fifteen "all the time, all HD, commercial free" offerings with twenty-something "sometimes, some HD, commercial laden" mind-numbers equally unsatisfactory. Bottom line - contractually, Dish is operating within their fulfillment obligations whether or not we like how they are "going about it".

Economics tend to prevail in the long run - If enough HD subscribers drop the now over-priced Ultimate add-on and go to either the Essential add-on or switch their core subscription to the dishHD package, then Dish will eventually realize the economic hit, get the message, and restructure their offerings accordingly.


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## peak_reception

> If enough HD subscribers drop the now over-priced Ultimate add-on and go to either the Essential add-on or switch their core subscription to the dishHD package, then Dish will eventually realize the economic hit, get the message, and restructure their offerings accordingly.


 It would be interesting to know what percentage of subscribers dropped down from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials in the weeks following VOOM's *poof* (disappearance). Hopefully enough to light a fire.


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## grog

As mad as I am about the VOOM issue I did not downgrade. As long as there is something worth watching in the package I will keep it.

*The Real Issue*
My wife ask me if we could order MLB a couple of nights ago.

With Dish... no
http://www.dishnetwork.com/redirects/promotion/extra_innings/index.shtml

With DirecTV.. yes
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/globa...30_A&_DAV=-1&_dynSessConf=6678160958670051368

*Why no MLB with Dish?*
The problem with Dish and the reason we lost Voom, MLB and came close to losing CourtTV and WE is "Dish networks negotiating skills".

Does anyone know if DirecTV has issues with dropping stations even for a limited time due to breakdowns in the negotiating process?

I don't expect to see VoomHD or MLB back&#8230; ever!
Maybe I am wrong but it seems Dish has no interest in either VoomHD or MLB.

*Why I would be forced to leave Dish*
For me, my change to DirecTV may be an MLB issue and not 'they dropped VoomHD' issue. It won't happen this year, just to much going on. But I would like to get MLB next year. My wife loves sports and wants MLB... What do I do?



peak_reception said:


> It would be interesting to know what percentage of subscribers dropped down from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials in the weeks following VOOM's *poof* (disappearance). Hopefully enough to light a fire.


----------



## Paul Secic

peak_reception said:


> It would be interesting to know what percentage of subscribers dropped down from HD Ultimate to HD Essentials in the weeks following VOOM's *poof* (disappearance). Hopefully enough to light a fire.


Here's one. I went back to HBO. But I pay the same price + $2.


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## Stewart Vernon

I dropped to the HD-only package + the four major movie premium channels... and am paying about $10 less per month now than on AT250 + HD Ultimate.

The Voom thing didn't play a part in my decision really... just a desire to save a little and realizing I could add premiums but drop my monthly bill at the same time by going this way.


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## grog

Remember


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## FTA Michael

And here's a tiny taste of Animania:


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## dbenj

I miss Monsters HD...

http://www.monstershd.com/index_wide.php?p=VS

What great stuff!!!


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## Richard King

And a taste of the best HD channel that is no longer available on Dish: http://www.voom.tv/ravehd.html


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## phrelin

grog said:


> "Dish networks negotiating skills".


Their chief negotiator, Dr. Bruce Banner, tends to put people off.


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## late_nights

I don't really care who's right or who's wrong. James Long's criticism of VOOM just diverted attention from the real issue, which is, where do we go from here? If VOOM went to DirecTV, I would drop DISH in a heartbeat. If it returned to DISH, I would be happy. If VOOM goes bankupt, I will be sad. In any case, why do I care who was at fault?

What really concerns me is that I am paying more money and getting less service. To put it another way, when I first started watching TV, there were four channels in my hometown, ABC, NBC, CBS, and an independent channel that showed 'B' movies and reruns from the other channels. My parents paid nothing for this. Now, with the demise of the VOOM network, I'm going to be paying close to $2000 per year for ABC, NBC, CBS, and abou 500 independent channels that will show 'B' movies and reruns from the other channels. The picture quality is of course HDTV rather than OTA B/W, but for me PQ is a distant second place compared to content.

I am beginning to think that 'bait and switch' is part of the system, not because programmers are devious and malicious, but because the market forces called supply-and-demand gradually eliminate diversity whereever it appears, in favor of what sells best -- 'B' movies and reruns of old TV shows. No one is at fault; no one should be blamed; that's just the way the free market works.

Going back to what I think is the real question: where do we go from here? -- I think those of us who liked VOOM should acknowledge that we are the minority, even though 40% is a pretty substantial minority, and that we will have to pay a litlle more for what we like. For me, I am thinking of dropping HDTV ('B' movies and old TV reruns) altogether,and putting the money into DVD and Blu-Ray rentals. Just because I'm in the minority, it doesn't follow that I should have to subsidize the majority, any more than I would expect them to subsidize me.

I know about Netflix; this week I found a 'niche' rental service called RussianDVD which rents Russian-language English-subtitle Russian movies and TV miniseries. For a few months it will be like having VOOM back again -- lots of esoteric, where-did-they-get-that-from surprises. 

Maybe some of you have already found other sources of new programming that could replace DISH. I notice there are some threads on how to hook up to Canadian satellite TV. 

And there's always the public library!


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## TBoneit

If I wanted Voom I'd pay for it. http://www.optimum.com/lineup.jsp?regionId=38 shows the Voom available to me down towards the bottom of the page.

785 Rave HD
776 Kung Fu HD
777 Monster HD
778 Film Fest HD
779 VOOM HD Movies 
734 Rush HD
710 HDNews
714 Gallery HD
720 WorldSport HD
723 Animania HD
724 Treasure HD
727 HD Theater
728 Equator HD
729 Ultra HD

I think I removed the non Voom from that list, I may have missed some however.

I just don't want to pay that much. I've been procrastinating about removing all the Premium Movies channels to save money too.

So how much extra would you pay to have Voom channels? Would you want to give up what you have now? That is what I'd have to do since I'd have to switch to cable to get voom and could not afford both. Want to use the cable DVR?

Not to mention the long lasting noise I'd hear about having to learn a new lineup and new DVR from the rest of the house.


----------



## late_nights

I wish I had your choices, but I don't. Comcast is my cable provider, and Comcast doesn't offer the VOOM channels. For a while I did subscribe to both, in order to get PBS in HD.

I do think that Netflix is a viable alternative to the premium channels. The picture quality of a good DVD is often as good as, if not better than, the overly compressed movies that we get from satellite, and the Blu-Ray discs are simply better.

I am willing to pay more money to replace my VOOM programming; in fact I think that that is the only way 'minority' preferences like mine can survive in the marketplace; but at the same time, I'm going to remove some of the DISH programming to help pay for whatever I replace VOOM with, such as, probably, the premium programming and the HD programming.

My main issue, and the reason I posted yesterday, was that I am still looking for sources to replace VOOM. I found RussianDVD, and some esoteric stuff on Netflix, and I was hoping that some of the other readers of this thread had also found some interesting stuff. In other words given that I am spending close to $2000 per year on TV programming, how can I best spend the money? DISH will got part of it but no longer the whole thing.


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## TBoneit

There was a thread here one time that discussed alternatives to Netflix that were niche oriented. One of them that I used to use Nicheflix is now gone sad to say. They were a good source of non mainstream movies from different regions. They were in fact the reason I first got into region free DVD players so I could watch from any region and PAL or NTSC DVDs from them. Maybe a search will turn up other rental companies. 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=niche+dvd+rentals&btnG=Google+Search brought up some alternatives. Research would be needed to verify whether or not you want to trust your credit card info as with any online business.

Good Luck


----------



## FTA Michael

TBoneit said:


> So how much extra would you pay to have Voom channels? Would you want to give up what you have now?


$10/month. Maybe they could call it Ultimate HD. 

I'd keep what I had and add Voom. If DirecTV picked up Voom, I'm definitely consider switching. If IPTV came to my house and had Voom, I'd consider switching. If my local cable company picked up Voom, uh, well I'd find a friendly neighbor with cable.


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## dbconsultant

grog said:


> For me, my change to DirecTV may be an MLB issue and not 'they dropped VoomHD' issue. It won't happen this year, just to much going on. But I would like to get MLB next year. My wife loves sports and wants MLB... What do I do?


For me, since Dish no longer has Voom, all the channels that are out there will most likely be carried by both Dish and DirecTV eventually so it will come down to picture quality and whose receivers I prefer. At this point, I'm hoping one of my friends will sign up with DirecTV so that I can check out their picture quality and dvr's. That way, when my Dish contract is up, I'll be able to make an intelligent decision about staying with Dish or changing to DirecTV. At this point, when someone asks me for a recommendation, I don't automatically recommend Dish anymore because there's really no difference in the possible channel offerings.


----------



## Richard King

dbconsultant said:


> At this point, when someone asks me for a recommendation, I don't automatically recommend Dish anymore because there's really no difference in the possible channel offerings.


I'm in the same boat. I used to only recommend Dish, now if someone asks I tell them to flip a coin, unless they are huge (not Hugh) sports fans and might, in the future, subscribe to a sports package, in which case I tell the to go to Directv. I used to feel that Voom made up for any missing sports packages, at least it did for me.


----------



## Deke Rivers

TBoneit said:


> There was a thread here one time that discussed alternatives to Netflix that were niche oriented. One of them that I used to use Nicheflix is now gone sad to say. They were a good source of non mainstream movies from different regions. They were in fact the reason I first got into region free DVD players so I could watch from any region and PAL or NTSC DVDs from them. Maybe a search will turn up other rental companies.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=niche+dvd+rentals&btnG=Google+Search brought up some alternatives. Research would be needed to verify whether or not you want to trust your credit card info as with any online business.
> 
> Good Luck


Greencine is another although all region 1 rentals


----------



## WanFittit

My gast is still flabbered - I still can't get over it. 
Has there ever been another example in the business world, of a company throwing away their key differentiator, so that they can offer services which are indistinguishable from those of their giant competitor? 
Looks like a recipe for disaster, an admission of failure, and almost an invitation to be swallowed up by the Murdoch Gorilla. 
What a bunch of bozos.


----------



## wreck

WanFittit said:


> My gast is still flabbered - I still can't get over it.
> Has there ever been another example in the business world, of a company throwing away their key differentiator, so that they can offer services which are indistinguishable from those of their giant competitor?
> Looks like a recipe for disaster, an admission of failure, and almost an invitation to be swallowed up by the Murdoch Gorilla.
> What a bunch of bozos.


Well, like it or not -- VOOM did not provide the "value" for their fees that made them profitable for Dish. I'm sure Dish weighed the situation and made the best business decision for them. Dish *owns* 20% of VOOM -- it had to be really bad for them to axe VOOM completely.


----------



## late_nights

Deke Rivers said:


> Greencine is another although all region 1 rentals


That's a good option too. Thanks. I looked at the Greencine catalog for a few minutes, and very quickly found some great titles that aren't in the Netflix or Blockbuster catalogs. I'm having fun now going through the subtitled movies from RussianDvd, which will keep me busy for about six months, but I will try Greencine next.

I am not putting Netflix down -- I am learning that they have a lot of good titles -- not just movies but music, documentaries, and nature shows -- that I never noticed until I started looking, just because their catalog is so large -- but Netflix doesn't have everything.

And, of course, a lot of programming on VOOM will never be available on DVD -- such as most or all of RUSH for example -- so I still miss VOOM -- but I am relieved to find that DVD rental has so much to offer -- and at no additional cost if I reduce my DISH programming.


----------



## dbenj

wreck said:


> Well, like it or not -- VOOM did not provide the "value" for their fees that made them profitable for Dish. I'm sure Dish weighed the situation and made the best business decision for them. Dish *owns* 20% of VOOM -- it had to be really bad for them to axe VOOM completely.


Charlie, is that you?

Who are these Dish defenders? Read the legal complaint. There are two sides to the story, and frankly I think that there is a fair chance that Dish may end up paying VOOM a lot of money -- but not for years! And that will hurt all of us.

Dish did not provide value for their fees!? Dish got the benefit of the early years of their deal, with HD subscriber growth from 20,000 to 1,300,000. A 650% increase in HD subscribers is pretty good value!

Then when the payback was shifting to favor VOOM, Dish tried to change the deal. VOOM wouldn't go along with it, and Dish dumped them. As I understand it, there was no cure notice from Dish (as required by the contract). Dish just dumped them.

I can't understand why any Dish subscriber who has lost 15 unique channels with some spectacularly beautiful HD programming would feel compelled to defend Dish on this one.

Unless that is really you, Charlie...


----------



## James Long

There are two sides presented by VOOM to this story ... the original complaint and the amended one filed after the preliminary injunction was rejected and the channels removed.

I don't believe you can give credit for ALL of the HD increase ... or even most of it ... to the inclusion of Voom channels. There were a lot of people here griping about the content (and lack thereof) for the past two years - publicly and loudly wishing they could buy DISH HD without Voom. It is quite possible that the same number of people attracted to DISH because of Voom (perhaps former Voom DBS customers and those who desired Voom content) were also turned away because of the additional price. Perhaps even more lost than gained.

For the 1st 18 months the biggest draw to DishHD with forced Voom was more channels (even excluding Voom) than any other carrier. That advantage was lost when DirecTV introduced "more channels you'll actually watch". The most negative period in the history of DishHD was the end of last year when DirecTV kept adding channels to their $9.99 "HD enabling" package and Voom changed schedules to become even more repetitive. Voom didn't save DISH in 4Q or 1Q. People wanted something else.

The lack of new content from Voom ... content that they PROMISED to DISH ... hurt DISH as much as not having the new "national" channels (even though many channels added were not heavy in HD). If Voom would have kept their promise perhaps they would have been a savior to DISH --- but they did not and were not.

(PS: I'm not Charlie either.)


----------



## grog

Maybe I am Charlie! :goodandba 

The 'repeat content factor' which has been slated as a Voom exclusive method of broadcasting is now seen as not unique at all. 

The truth of the matter is there is really not enough new content in the industry to justify 'unique programming all the time'. 

Hell even sports and news channels show repeats all-the-time!

Let's look at HBO/CINEMAX right now.... shall we?

While HBO/CINEMAX does have some programming on tonight that I have not seen before here are some repeats I have seen often.

The Patriot 
Turbulence 2: Fear of Flying 
The Suburbans 
Money Train 
The In-Laws 
Michael
The Truth About Cats & Dogs 
Bad Boys 
Charlie's Angels 

If you miss any of the above I am sure HBO will be playing the above movies all month long or longer.

If you missed 'Charlie's Angels' you can catch it at one of the following times.

Sun 7/20 01:00 PM ACTION MAX - EAST 
Sun 7/20 10:00 PM ACTION MAX - EAST 
Wed 7/23 06:30 PM CINEMAX - EAST 
Thu 7/24 01:00 AM CINEMAX - EAST 
Fri 7/25 09:15 AM 5STAR MAX - EAST 
Sat 7/26 02:45 PM ACTION MAX - EAST 
Sun 7/27 12:00 AM ACTION MAX - EAST 
Sun 7/27 08:00 AM CINEMAX - EAST 
Sun 7/27 10:00 PM CINEMAX - EAST 
Tue 7/29 06:15 PM ACTION MAX - EAST 
Wed 7/30 02:15 PM 5STAR MAX - EAST 
Wed 7/30 09:00 PM 5STAR MAX - EAST 
Sun 8/3 02:00 PM MORE MAX - EAST 
Sun 8/3 09:00 PM MORE MAX - EAST 
Mon 8/4 07:35 PM @MAX - EAST 
Fri 8/8 10:45 AM @MAX - EAST 
Fri 8/8 09:15 PM @MAX - EAST 
Mon 8/11 10:30 AM MORE MAX - EAST 
Sat 8/16 05:30 PM @MAX - EAST 
Wed 8/20 05:15 PM MORE MAX - EAST 
Fri 8/22 01:00 AM @MAX - EAST 
Tue 8/26 02:45 PM @MAX - EAST 
Tue 8/26 11:00 PM @MAX - EAST 
Sat 8/30 07:15 PM MORE MAX - EAST 
Sun 8/31 11:25 AM @MAX - EAST 

See, HBO has enough feeds most of us never think a great deal about the repeats.

With the large volume of movies available I think many would find the repeats on HBO to be to frequent while others would not.

If HBO showed movies that are 'not so familiar' then the draw for the showing would not be there. Why do you think channels like TCM are few. While I love TCM not many who watch HBO would like seeing a movie from the 50's over watching 'Charlie's Angels' just one more time!

In the case of Voom, each channel was unique. We did not have a 'Rave-WEST', 'Rave-EAST', 'Rave-Family', and 'Rave-Comedy'. Rave had to stand on it's own. Look at the repeats on MHD and you will see it is no different. Actually I think Voom showed less repeats than MHD.

TV is all about repeats. What makes it work is the volume of channels we have to select from. Personally I like repeats and I would watch ''Charlie's Angels' right now if it was not for the the MHD program I am enjoying that has kept me pinned to that channel tonight.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

You really have to look at Voom to blame for not marketing themselves better either. They essentially failed in direct competition with Dish, DirecTV, and cable as a standalone service. Then they really only had an agreement with Dish for carriage. Eventually a cable system picked them up... but most cable and DirecTV weren't going near them.

Surely Voom could have benefitted from negotiating with DirecTV and other cable outlets for wider customer base... but it doesn't seem to have been of interest to them.


----------



## grog

To some extent I think MHD won't make it for the same reason Voom Rave failed.
MHD actaully plays music just like MTV and VH1 in the early days.

But no one really wanted to watch music videos on MTV when they could instead watch reality TV such as "I Love New York".

I would think MTV paid a lot less for going the non-muisc route as well.

Personally I find it hard to see new music video content. If you go where they have DVD's for sale you will normally find very little in the music section. Shame really but that is the way it is.

So having one music video channel MHD is all most of those who watch TV feels we need.

Same can be said of some of the other Voom stations. We already had the Travel channel and now it's HD. The content is no where near what Voom had but it does fit the spread sheet to the 'bean collectors' in power.

I still think that those who run the SAT and Cable companies don't watch TV.:lol:

So in the end I don't think anything could save Voom. Voom simply cost more than other channels which offered the 'same sorta thing'.



HDMe said:


> You really have to look at Voom to blame for not marketing themselves better either. They essentially failed in direct competition with Dish, DirecTV, and cable as a standalone service. Then they really only had an agreement with Dish for carriage. Eventually a cable system picked them up... but most cable and DirecTV weren't going near them.
> 
> Surely Voom could have benefitted from negotiating with DirecTV and other cable outlets for wider customer base... but it doesn't seem to have been of interest to them.


----------



## Richard King

> To some extent I think MHD won't make it for the same reason Voom Rave failed.


I was a real Rave fan. I think that MHD won't make it because their picture quality just doesn't seem up to par with Rave AND they fill programming with advertising. Rave was unique in that it had the best picture quality and they did it with no advertising. I RARELY watch MHD and I watched Rave all the time.


----------



## James Long

HDMe said:


> You really have to look at Voom to blame for not marketing themselves better either. They essentially failed in direct competition with Dish, DirecTV, and cable as a standalone service. Then they really only had an agreement with Dish for carriage. Eventually a cable system picked them up... but most cable and DirecTV weren't going near them.


That cable system (Cablevision) owns Voom! (And it took years for them to add any of their own channels to their own system.) They have done a couple of channels internationally - but multichannel Voom hasn't done well.



grog said:


> To some extent I think MHD won't make it for the same reason Voom Rave failed.


MHD won't make it because eventually HD content will be available on the source channels (MTV/VH1/CMT) and it won't be needed. It is an old school HD ... instead of being a 24/7 upconvert waiting for content it is a HD feed filled with other HD. The goal being to be a HD channel more than to play the "main channel" content.



> So in the end I don't think anything could save Voom. Voom simply cost more than other channels which offered the 'same sorta thing'.


It would have helped if they would have met their spending goals. It isn't like they have a huge bank account full of money for new content that wasn't spent because there was no one willing to take their money. They just skimped on spending. Penny wise but pound foolish.

(Of course Cablevision's Voom satellite service suffered the opposite fate ... too much spending and not enough money coming in. That service was closed down when the board got squeamish --- got tired of seeing red and gave up. IMHO Voom as a DBS carrier was about a year before it's time. They just couldn't hold out long enough.)


----------



## FTA Michael

grog said:


> Same can be said of some of the other Voom stations. We already had the Travel channel and now it's HD. The content is no where near what Voom had but it does fit the spread sheet to the 'bean collectors' in power.


Yeah, when I first got Voom, I wasn't so much excited by having a bunch of new HD channels, I was excited by having that many new content channels. That is, I was happy to get new things to watch, and even happier that they were in HD.

As time went on, I kept noticing how glorious the Voom HD looked, and I always appreciated the lack of ads.

Now most of the channels that are supposed to mollify us Voom-losers are just HD versions of the same content that we can get anyway. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just a whole lot different than the _different_ content I used to watch on Voom.


----------



## grog

It will be a sad day but I agree it will happen.

Go to MTV right now and you can watch "Parental Control" most of the day. 
MTV2 and VH1 is no better.

Now go to MHD, while it is not as good as Voom's Rave at least they are playing music video's.

When MHD is gone so are the music video's. Enjoy them while you can because repeats of reality television is the future for music TV.



James Long said:


> MHD won't make it because eventually HD content will be available on the source channels (MTV/VH1/CMT) and it won't be needed. It is an old school HD ... instead of being a 24/7 upconvert waiting for content it is a HD feed filled with other HD. The goal being to be a HD channel more than to play the "main channel" content.


----------



## kal915

Richard King said:


> I was a real Rave fan. I think that MHD won't make it because their picture quality just doesn't seem up to par with Rave AND they fill programming with advertising. Rave was unique in that it had the best picture quality and they did it with no advertising. I RARELY watch MHD and I watched Rave all the time.


I considered MHD quality better than Rave's, but MHD is still going to shut down when MTV gets real hd on their channel which has no music at all. I used to watch MTV En Espanol when it was 24/7 music, now that its MTV Tres it's a spanish MTV: reality show crap.


----------



## DickMcDickersonJr

Wow, I cannot people are still *****ing about this?!


----------



## Hunter Green

People are probably still *****ing about the idea of taking elephants over the Alps, somewhere.


----------



## Islandguy43

There is only a couple of channels Equator and Rave that I really miss.


----------



## clapple

DickMcDickersonJr said:


> Wow, I cannot people are still *****ing about this?!


+++ :nono2:


----------



## Taco Lover

DickMcDickersonJr said:


> Wow, I cannot people are still *****ing about this?!


Excellent first post. :up:


----------



## grog

As far as I know the issue of Dish and Voom has not yet been resolved.



DickMcDickersonJr said:


> Wow, I cannot people are still *****ing about this?!


----------



## Richard King

DickMcDickersonJr said:


> Wow, I cannot people are still *****ing about this?!


Charlie, is that you?


----------



## phrelin

Richard King said:


> Charlie, is that you?


:lol:


----------



## grog




----------



## DickMcDickersonJr

Taco Lover said:


> Excellent first post. :up:


Had to chime in at some point.... right?


----------



## DickMcDickersonJr

Richard King said:


> Charlie, is that you?


No more HD for you!

I am the E* Nazi!


----------



## DickMcDickersonJr




----------



## phrelin

DickMcDickersonJr said:


>


:lol:


----------



## Schizm

:rotfl: 
nice


----------



## grog

:righton:


----------



## dbenj

OK, a serious question here.

Those of you that got VOOM with your first HD package:

When you wanted to show off your new HD display to a friend, did you tune in a VOOM channel, or something else?​
To everyone:

Now when you want to show of the performance of your display, what do you use?​The answer for me is that I always used a VOOM channel as long as VOOM was available. Now I am at a loss as to how to demonstrate the benefits of a 1080p display without firing up the Bluray player -- which takes forever! None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.

Yes, I know that the VOOM programming was no more than 1080i.


----------



## James Long

The best way to demo DISH HD is to tune to a channel that the person you're demo'ing to would like. Show them last week's Nationwide race from ESPN2 if that would interest them. Flip to Discovery HD theater or one of the other Discovery channels if you're just looking for pretty. Try Smithsonian HD or a movie channel if you pay for those. Nearly any HD channel will do.

It will be better when more channels are 24/7 HD (zero upconvert) but I'd flip to CNN HD or TWC HD and see if that hour was HD. I could probably impress someone who had not seen HD with TNT/TBS stretchovision ... but I wouldn't like myself in the morning. 

HD locals are also good for demo (if you have them via sat or OTA). But the key is to show the person what they want to see ... the "nice picture" wears of quickly when the content isn't compelling - then you have "nice picture, but". The but being "I'd never watch this channel". Perhaps "nice picture, but what the heck is Voom? Never heard of it."

Give them what they want. I used to use the "fish tank" channel as a demo ... it was the best PQ (better than any real DishHD channel) but it really only showed the capability to have a great picture - without content one would want to watch it was just a nice screen saver.


----------



## grog

When we had Voom that was what I used to show off my large screen.

Now I show off my large screen by playing a couple of recordings I still have from Voom's Rave. Yes I have then set to protect!



dbenj said:


> OK, a serious question here.
> 
> Those of you that got VOOM with your first HD package:
> 
> When you wanted to show off your new HD display to a friend, did you tune in a VOOM channel, or something else?​
> To everyone:
> 
> Now when you want to show of the performance of your display, what do you use?​The answer for me is that I always used a VOOM channel as long as VOOM was available. Now I am at a loss as to how to demonstrate the benefits of a 1080p display without firing up the Bluray player -- which takes forever! None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.
> 
> Yes, I know that the VOOM programming was no more than 1080i.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I have to 2nd what James said... I tried to show as many channels as possible to anyone visiting, but if I couldn't keep their interest that long I at least started with channels that would interest them.

Folks that liked sports, showing ESPN/ESPN2 was good or NBATV if there was an HD NBA game on... a couple of times I did show soccer from WorldSport too.

Discovery HD (Theater) was often good to show, as is HDNet and HDNet Movies. If a good movie was on, I'd show off that as well.


----------



## jimborst

I have a friend that doesn't have HD yet but the other day he was over and I did show:

Discovery HD, A Dirty Jobs episode that was one of the best looking I have seen, when Mike Rowe was doing maintenence on a Gondola.

Travel Channel, any of the new shows that are in HD, Samantha Brown Passport to great Weekends and Anthony Bourdain:No Reservations (since the new season) look great.

The Travel Channel seems to be making a great effort to get all the new shows on the air in HD. And the Weather channel coverage of Bertha was really nice to see in HD.


----------



## late_nights

dbenj said:


> None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.
> 
> Yes, I know that the VOOM programming was no more than 1080i.


That's because the other channels are always more heavily compressed than VOOM was. If you have an external hard drive, you can see this by looking at the size of each item you have stored and comparing it to the length of the reocording. Looking at some of my earliest recordings, to eliminate the possibility that I am comparing mpeg-4 to mpeg-2, I see for example that Alien 3, recorded from Cinemax in HD, took up only 2.6 GB of storage, while Amarcord and Ran, recorded from VOOM in HD, take up respectively 10.5 GB and 16.5 GB. Obviously, VOOM recordings will always have the better picture, even though both channels display at 1080i.

Looking at all my 300-odd recordings on three hard drives and tryinig to generalize is difficult, but I would say that the non-VOOM channels are inconsistent, sometimes approaching VOOM in size, but usually not even coming close, whereas VOOM was consistent, always using minimal compression.

My advice is not to rely on any of the channels showing a VOOM-quality picture when your friends are visiting, because it's going to be hit-or-miss. Instead, I suggest that you show some programs that you have saved, such as Dirty Jobs or Samantha Rowe, which you know are going to be good.

And if you're lucky enough to have copied some of the VOOM programs when they were available, those will always be the best.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

late_nights said:


> That's because the other channels are always more heavily compressed than VOOM was. If you have an external hard drive, you can see this by looking at the size of each item you have stored and comparing it to the length of the reocording. Looking at some of my earliest recordings, to eliminate the possibility that I am comparing mpeg-4 to mpeg-2, I see for example that Alien 3, recorded from Cinemax in HD, took up only 2.6 GB of storage, while Amarcord and Ran, recorded from VOOM in HD, take up respectively 10.5 GB and 16.5 GB. Obviously, VOOM recordings will always have the better picture, even though both channels display at 1080i.


You can't make comparisons like that unless you record the exact same movie from different channels.

Some movies compress more than others. 2.35:1 movies have a lot of black on them that compresses well... movies that do not have a lot of action in them (say a drama or a comedy) should tend to compress more than an action movie does.

You can't compare one movie on channel A with a completely different movie on channel B and really get any kind of valid comparison.

The best comparisons would be to take some things that have aired both on Voom and on another channel and compare those file sizes. There have been some Voom movies that later aired on HDNet Movies or HBO/MAX and if you have any of those recorded from both channels then you could certainly make a size comparison.

Keep in mind too that much of Voom was MPEG2 until last year (The original 10 Vooms that Dish added were MPEG2, the last 5 were MPEG4... Dish converted all of them to MPEG4 last summer, so old recordings from the original 10 channels on Voom would most likely be in MPEG2)... and some of the current HD (HBO, HDNet, SHO, for example) are still MPEG2 at least until the end of this month.. and MPEG2 files tend to be bigger than MPEG4 for the same movie content as well.


----------



## aloishus27

dbenj said:


> OK, a serious question here.
> 
> Those of you that got VOOM with your first HD package:
> 
> When you wanted to show off your new HD display to a friend, did you tune in a VOOM channel, or something else?​
> To everyone:
> 
> Now when you want to show of the performance of your display, what do you use?​The answer for me is that I always used a VOOM channel as long as VOOM was available. Now I am at a loss as to how to demonstrate the benefits of a 1080p display without firing up the Bluray player -- which takes forever! None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.
> 
> Yes, I know that the VOOM programming was no more than 1080i.


I used to use a Voom channel, now i use Blu-ray, with a PS3 the load times are ultra fast, so I have no problem there. Trade in your Blu-ray player for PS3, besides the faster load times PS3 is Bonusview 2.0. and upgradable in the future via internet dowloads.


----------



## dbenj

late_nights said:


> And if you're lucky enough to have copied some of the VOOM programs when they were available, those will always be the best.


If only we had received some notice that VOOM was about to disappear!...


----------



## late_nights

dbenj said:


> If only we had received some notice that VOOM was about to disappear!...


Yes, Dish Network could at least have done that for us. It wouldn't have cost them anything.

My VOOM recordings were mostly random choices. I didn't expect VOOM to disappear, or I would made different choices, and I would have copied a lot more than I did.


----------



## late_nights

HDMe said:


> You can't make comparisons like that unless you record the exact same movie from different channels.
> 
> Some movies compress more than others. 2.35:1 movies have a lot of black on them that compresses well... movies that do not have a lot of action in them (say a drama or a comedy) should tend to compress more than an action movie does.
> 
> You can't compare one movie on channel A with a completely different movie on channel B and really get any kind of valid comparison.
> 
> The best comparisons would be to take some things that have aired both on Voom and on another channel and compare those file sizes. There have been some Voom movies that later aired on HDNet Movies or HBO/MAX and if you have any of those recorded from both channels then you could certainly make a size comparison.
> 
> Keep in mind too that much of Voom was MPEG2 until last year (The original 10 Vooms that Dish added were MPEG2, the last 5 were MPEG4... Dish converted all of them to MPEG4 last summer, so old recordings from the original 10 channels on Voom would most likely be in MPEG2)... and some of the current HD (HBO, HDNet, SHO, for example) are still MPEG2 at least until the end of this month.. and MPEG2 files tend to be bigger than MPEG4 for the same movie content as well.


Those two movies were only examples. All the early (pre-mpeg4) recordings from VOOM are larger than any of the non-VOOM recordngs, and the later ones are still consistently bigger or as big as the best non-VOOM recordings, although not as humongous as the early ones.

Also, as you point out, 'action' shows don't lend themselves to compression as well as non-action shows, so the predominantly action-based HD channels we have now ought to be less compressesd than VOOM, not more so.


----------



## kal915

aloishus27 said:


> None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.


I tried to show my cousin a program on Equator, and she said "that doesn't look _that_ real". So i showed her CSI: Miami (2007) on A&E and she said "that's better"


----------



## Paul Secic

dbenj said:


> OK, a serious question here.
> 
> Those of you that got VOOM with your first HD package:
> 
> When you wanted to show off your new HD display to a friend, did you tune in a VOOM channel, or something else?​
> To everyone:
> 
> Now when you want to show of the performance of your display, what do you use?​The answer for me is that I always used a VOOM channel as long as VOOM was available. Now I am at a loss as to how to demonstrate the benefits of a 1080p display without firing up the Bluray player -- which takes forever! None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO.
> 
> Yes, I know that the VOOM programming was no more than 1080i.


Just show your friends STARZ HD. Thier picture is stuning and vibant. I hope the rest of thier channels are like that.


----------



## eatonjb

i'm a little late saying this, but compression really depens on what is playing on the show. for example, a movie like the Matrix with lots of sound and verry quick display, will compress a lot less then a show that does not move alot .. like the news in HD for example..


----------



## aloishus27

kal915 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by aloishus27 View Post
> None of the existing Dish channels compare to the VOOM channels with respect to picture quality IMHO."
> 
> I tried to show my cousin a program on Equator, and she said "that doesn't look _that_ real". So i showed her CSI: Miami (2007) on A&E and she said "that's better"


just for clarification due to a quote script error you have mistaken a quote from dbenj as something I have said. not a big deal, just thought I would point it out though. I have corrected the messed up quote in my post.


----------



## Paul Secic

Ressurrector said:


> All in all I think Dish made the right decision with what all they had to weigh such as a failing satelite and etc......
> 
> Overall I am not gonna miss Voom........ Once in awhile I enjoyed a Jason flick on Monsters and the eye candy of HD News which besides HBO had the best quality on Dish HD IMHO. (Actually HDNews looks better then CNN BUT I like CNN better)
> 
> BUT HD news was a generic and I much rather have a name brand news like CNN with names you know like Anderson Cooper and Larry King...
> 
> But.......Fishing channel??? LMAO I surfed in on it for 24 hours and have YET to see one real HD broadcast on it. Yep I always wanted to watch "Bass Masters" in HD Its True oh its true!


WOW! Is this still thread open?? I've been gone for a week not a vacation. You guys need to give it up.


----------



## James Long

No need to close ... just stop posting and it will fade away ...


----------



## Taco Lover

Remove the sticky. It will fade much faster.


----------



## James Long

:sure:


----------



## Taco Lover

Let's see! 

Ooops, that didn't help, did it?


----------



## late_nights

Now, if only there was some way we could make James Long fade away.


----------



## grog

I still miss Voom!


----------



## Richard King

I do too.


----------



## Taco Lover

Stop it!


----------



## Tom Robertson

late_nights said:


> Now, if only there was some way we could make James Long fade away.


That sure doesn't sound nice. 

But aren't we here to talk DBS? 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## James Long

So much for fading away ...


----------



## grog

*Voom HD brings Rush SD to Germany *

http://rapidtvnews.com/index.php/200807291784/voom-hd-brings-rush-sd-to-germany.html

Jörn Krieger 
29 July 2008 


> US television operator Voom HD Networks is exporting its sports channel Rush to Germany, but only in standard definition.
> 
> The English language 24-hour service, aimed at fans of extreme and action sports, will be available on the new digital pay-TV platform which Kabel BW is currently preparing. The approximately 2.3 million customers of the cable operator serving regional state Baden-Württemberg can subscribe to the bouquet comprising sports, music, lifestyle and erotic channels for €9.90 per month from August 1. Rush screens sports such as snowboarding, ski jumping, BMX and motor cross racing, surfing, skateboarding and motor sports, including tournaments from US racing association NASCAR.
> 
> Germany is the second international market in which Rush is present. The channel was first brought to the UK and Ireland where a high-definition version of the service has been available on BSkyB's pay-TV satellite platform since April. Voom HD Networks aims to introduce the channel to further European markets. The company is backed by media group Rainbow Media Holdings, a subsidiary of US cable operator Cablevision.


----------



## grog

RUSH Available Via German Cable Operator

2008-07-29

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=rush072908.htm



> NEW YORK, July 29: VOOM HD Networks has announced a second international carriage deal for RUSH, the 24-hour linear channel devoted to extreme sports.
> 
> RUSH will launch on Germany's cable operator Kabel BW on the newly released pay-TV package, adding another 2.3 million homes to its reach. This latest deal-brokered by Chello Zone-continues the global expansion strategy of VOOM HD Networks, which now has two channels available to the international marketplace.
> 
> The global VOOM HD channel, distributed in Europe and Asia, launched in October 2006. An HD version of RUSH is already available on BSkyB's satellite platform in the U.K.
> 
> "Germany is undoubtedly an important market for us," said Glenn Oakley, the senior VP of global operations and business development for VOOM HD Networks. "We are delighted at the opportunity to work with a digital pioneer like Kabel BW in bringing this region RUSH's unmatched lineup of extreme-sports programming."
> 
> -By Jackie Stewart


----------



## Stewart Vernon

It continues to be interesting how Rainbow appears to be willing to sell individual channels in the Voom suite outside of the USA, but wanted Dish to carry all 15 or none at all. Dish initially wanted to cut back to 5 (I'd have preferred about 8 I think) but Voom was an all-or-none deal.

Perhaps if Rainbow would negotiate the same way domestically as they do internationally we might would have seen some Voom back already... maybe even DirecTV would have been interested in a few as well if they didn't have to take the whole package.


----------



## jclewter79

It seems to me that, they are dealing this way now because they have to. If these channels don't get some viewers they will die. Is there anybody that even braodcast them in the US anymore? I mean how long can you keep 15 channels lit if nobody can see them? Even if they replay the same old crap over and over. Besides, with the new adds we are into their old bandwidth. Dish does not have room for VOOM now.


----------



## late_nights

Tom Robertson said:


> That sure doesn't sound nice.
> 
> But aren't we here to talk DBS?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


You're right. I'll try to stay calm in the future. It doesn't do any good to lose one's temper.


----------



## late_nights

jclewter79 said:


> It seems to me that, they are dealing this way now because they have to. If these channels don't get some viewers they will die. Is there anybody that even braodcast them in the US anymore? I mean how long can you keep 15 channels lit if nobody can see them? Even if they replay the same old crap over and over. Besides, with the new adds we are into their old bandwidth. Dish does not have room for VOOM now.


As much as I like VOOM, I have to agree that 15 channels is a lot of satellite space for the relatively small audience they drew, especially when each channel, even with MPEG-4, was much less compressed than any of the more popular 'action' channels and therefore was using more bandwidth. Dish can probably shoehorn 30 or even 45 of of its new 'HD' channels into the space that VOOM occupied. I understand that they felt they needed that space to compete with DirecTV I can even understand how the loyalty of customers like us, being an intangible, could not be factored into their equation, and therefore was probably left out.

I am resigned to losing the VOOM channels. What I continue to hope for, and the reason I am still following this thread with interest, is that the programming that went into the VOOM channels is still out there, and people like me willing to pay for it are still out there too, and that means there is still hope that the programming that constituted the VOOM channels may re-appear in another form that might be more palatable, i.e. more profitable, to Dish, DirecTV, FIOS, or whatever. The fact that Rainbow media is willing to sell its channels individually in Europe, and as either HD or SD, shows that the VOOM programming is not dead.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jclewter79 said:


> It seems to me that, they are dealing this way now because they have to. If these channels don't get some viewers they will die. Is there anybody that even braodcast them in the US anymore? I mean how long can you keep 15 channels lit if nobody can see them? Even if they replay the same old crap over and over. Besides, with the new adds we are into their old bandwidth. Dish does not have room for VOOM now.


I completely agree, they are dealing with the rest of the world out of desperation... strangely they could apply that here in the US and probably get more carriage!

There is a cable carriage in some markets I believe, but that's it now in the US.

I also find it odd that Rainbow has AMC, IFC, and WE in HD (DirecTV at least has AMC and IFC I believe) and yet they couldn't use some of that content to enhance Voom when we had it... Rainbow really just doesn't seem to be very good at managing their own business if you ask me.

I've said it before in this thread, but I believe Rainbow could have had a nice 8-9 channel suite including: MonstersHD, AMC, IFC, WE, Rave, Voom HD Movies, and a couple of others to round out the other genres that they used to cover. It could have been a really strong suite of 8-9 channels instead of a weak 15-channel suite... and I liked Voom but have to be honest about that.


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## WanFittit

HDMe said:


> ..............I believe Rainbow could have had a nice 8-9 channel suite including: MonstersHD, AMC, IFC, WE, Rave, Voom HD Movies, and a couple of others to round out the other genres that they used to cover. It could have been a really strong suite of 8-9 channels instead of a weak 15-channel suite... and I liked Voom but have to be honest about that.


and there's the rub, the Channels you mention would be the one's I'd be least interested in watching. That's the beauty about the 15 channel bundle - it packages a selection of 'exotic/unusual/minority' tastes which would not stand on their own individually.
I can't imagine that Voom viewers ever spent time on every one of the 15 channels. Did MonstersHD ever appeal to Equator fans?
The thing about all this is that if this trend continues we'll only be left with the same mindless mainstream rubbish. More Dog the Bounty Hunter or "Reality" programming, anyone?

I rest my case


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## paulman182

HDMe said:


> I also find it odd that Rainbow has AMC, IFC, and WE in HD (DirecTV at least has AMC and IFC I believe) and yet they couldn't use some of that content to enhance Voom when we had it...


Just for the record, DirecTV does not yet have AMC or IFC in HD.


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## dbconsultant

WanFittit said:


> Did MonstersHD ever appeal to Equator fans?


Yes! We watched both as well as Rave.


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## FTA Michael

I remember the glory days for Dish subscribers, when Dish was sacrificing short-term profit in order to gain market share. Dish picked up lots of new channels soon after launch (Gol TV, for example), kept its prices low, and watched the sub count zoom higher.

Now it feels like the reverse. Dish dumps Voom, the suite of HD channels that are arguably better (prettier, anyway) than anything on DirecTV, rather than working out a deal with an entity it owns a hefty piece of. It dumps Gol TV in another dispute. It posts the first quarterly sub loss in its history, but I'll bet its profits are still doing okay.

From a business perspective, I don't think that Dish is any worse than DirecTV or the cable companies, but I'm sad because I remember when Dish used to be a lot better.


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## Stewart Vernon

paulman182 said:


> Just for the record, DirecTV does not yet have AMC or IFC in HD.


Guess I got that wrong then, but I could have sworn that they did... Someone must have them since there are threads on AVS Forum where people are talking about watching those channels.


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## Stewart Vernon

WanFittit said:


> and there's the rub, the Channels you mention would be the one's I'd be least interested in watching.


In that post I only specifically mentioned 6 channels of a hypothetical 9 channel new Voom suite. If you go back earlier in this thread I did a more detailed analysis of proposing a suite that kept ALL the existing content (except Animania which really was never used to full potential) in about 9 channels I believe.

I never advocated dropping the whole suite nor losing any of the unique content... just a more sensible combining that resulted in a smaller/easier to sell suite that packed more immediate power and impressiveness than the 15-channel watered-down suite.

Also interesting that Dish had to take them all, but they are using a much smarter approach worldwide and letting the content speak for itself and allowing international contracts to just be per channel rather than the whole suite.


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## harsh

HDMe said:


> Guess I got that wrong then, but I could have sworn that they did... Someone must have them since there are threads on AVS Forum where people are talking about watching those channels.


They are reportedly available on some CATV systems. My local Comcast system has AMC HD.


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## kal915

harsh said:


> They are reportedly available on some CATV systems. My local Comcast system has AMC HD.


So does mine, but there is no way i'm switching


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## FTA Michael

Here's a fun piece of pure speculation: What if Dish is waiting until after the Olympics to turn that China vs. Argentina bandwidth into some form of Voom?


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## late_nights

FTA Michael said:


> Here's a fun piece of pure speculation: What if Dish is waiting until after the Olympics to turn that China vs. Argentina bandwidth into some form of Voom?


Maybe! I spoke to a TSR last night, and when the subject of VOOM came up, he said that he has been told to tell Dish customers that Dish is "still in talks" with VOOM.


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## grog

Maybe dreams can come true. 



late_nights said:


> Maybe! I spoke to a TSR last night, and when the subject of VOOM came up, he said that he has been told to tell Dish customers that Dish is "still in talks" with VOOM.


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## James Long

Dish is still in negotiations with InHD, er Mojo. How many years has that stretched?


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## grog

Sorry... could not pass up this quote:

Seems Dish never had a Mojo to lose. :lol: 
Then again... DirecTV did not have a Mojo either. :eek2:

Mojo does look like a great add if Dish or DirecTV would add it to their lineup.

http://www.mojohd.com/

Dish Network Subscribers Fall as Competition Grows Tougher

The New York Times
By REUTERS
Published: August 5, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/technology/05dish.html?ref=technology



> "This is not pretty. It's the first ever loss of subscribers by a major satellite TV company," said Craig E. Moffett, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Company. "Dish appears to have lost its *mojo* when it comes to attracting new customers."





James Long said:


> Dish is still in negotiations with InHD, er Mojo. How many years has that stretched?


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## grog

Could DIRECTV's Parent Buy Voom?

They might... I know this is not new news but the shameless bump of the thread using this story is. 

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dvoom080608.htm


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## space86

I think next year D* and E* should both add all the Voom HD Networks, they will
have the room on there satellites to add them all.


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## jclewter79

Maybe they will if sometime next year voom buys a few new shows to put on their networks.


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## grog

Blur on hi-def? 
That HD-TV isn't the end of the road for your move to hi-def 
By Tan Ooi Boon

August 24, 2008

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/tech/story/0,4136,174230,00.html



> SingTel's mio TV
> 
> mio TV has a big collection of HD content from its partner Mega Media, one of Asia's largest HD companies.
> 
> It has a line-up of HD programming selected from VOOM HD Network's 15 HD channels and the first made-in-Singapore HD channel - Sling HD.
> 
> To watch HD programmes on mio TV, subscribers have to spend a minimum of $16.05 on content (its HD set-top boxes are free).
> 
> But to subscribe, customers need to have a SingTel fixed phone line at home. If they are not a SingNet broadband customer, they also need to buy a compatible modem at $64.20.


Skylife broadens relationship with NDS 
Indiantelevision.com Team 
(18 August 2008 6:00 pm)
MUMBAI: Korea

http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k8/aug/aug163.php



> SkyLife is enhancing its offering to subscribers with the launch of live HD services, and continues to trust NDS technology to protect and power the delivery of high value content. SkyLife HD is a 24-hour HD service which aggregates HD content from broadcasters such as Discovery HD, NHK, VOOM HD, and others.


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## Paul Secic

grog said:


> Could DIRECTV's Parent Buy Voom?
> 
> They might... I know this is not new news but the shameless bump of the thread using this story is.
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dvoom080608.htm


Swami twists word. Don't beleive him. I think VOOM will be back on Dish in some form, at some form.


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## wreck

Paul Secic said:


> Swami twists word. Don't beleive him. I think VOOM will be back on Dish in some form, at some form.


Dish needs "channels" to boost their HD count. When VOOM becomes "reasonable" again -- they will be back. Dish still owns 20% of VOOM -- think about it!


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## grog

Chello Zone wants to introduce Rush HD and Voom HD to Polish kablówek

http://www.wirtualnemedia.pl/articl...ic_Rush_HD_i_Voom_HD_do_polskich_kablowek.htm

Google: Translation: Polish » English


> Chello Zone wants to introduce Rush HD and Voom HD to Polish kablówek
> 
> Chello Zone is negotiating with major cable networks conditions for inclusion in their bid Rush HD channels, and Voom HD. Until the end of 2008 stations will be offered to operators in the original English version.
> 
> How informed us Agnieszka Somerville, Regional Director and General Manager Chello Zone in Poland, a Polish language version wielotematycznego channel Voom HD has appear in 2009. In the next year may also be spolszczony Rush HD, devoted to extreme sports.
> 
> More than 80 percent. programs of both the station is broadcast in high definition. Voom HD channel can no longer watch network subscribers Warsaw Spray.


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## Paul Secic

grog said:


> Chello Zone wants to introduce Rush HD and Voom HD to Polish kablówek
> 
> http://www.wirtualnemedia.pl/articl...ic_Rush_HD_i_Voom_HD_do_polskich_kablowek.htm
> 
> Google: Translation: Polish » English


You can't get it.


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## grog

You can not get it either. 



Paul Secic said:


> You can't get it.


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## grog

waybackmachine

This is all history but a good read thanks to the wayback machine at archive.org.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.voom.com

*Voom 2004*
http://web.archive.org/web/20041024031446/http://www2.voom.com/index.html


*Voom will cease to provide service to existing customers on April 30, 2005.*
http://web.archive.org/web/20050411000306/http://www.voom.com/



*Continue receiving VOOM HD programming with a free offer from Dish Network. - 2005*
http://web.archive.org/web/20050507030851/http://www.voom.com/



*Voom is now on Dish Network - 2005*
http://web.archive.org/web/20051031211612/www.voom.com/vhdo/index.jsp



*Voom Today*
http://www.voom.tv/



*dbstalk.com on Voom*
http://web.archive.org/web/20050507043342/http://www.dbstalk.com/


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## James Long

Perhaps we should just let go and move on?


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## Paul Secic

grog said:


> Maybe dreams can come true.


I read on Multichannel News today VOOM will not be back.


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## grog

Link??

Did not see it on main page. Nor did I see it when I searched the site.



Paul Secic said:


> I read on Multichannel News today VOOM will not be back.


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## Presence

Sure would be nice to have a commercial-free music network again.


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## harsh

Paul Secic said:


> I read on Multichannel News today VOOM will not be back.


We must be thinking of a different Multichannel News.


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## James Long

The only thing I could find was a recent letter to the editor:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6585965.html


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## Richard King

A letter to the editor that I agree with 100%. Dish lost 25,000 subs last quarter. I wonder just how many of those 25,000 would have been saved if something had been "worked out" with Voom.


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## kal915

Richard King said:


> A letter to the editor that I agree with 100%. Dish lost 25,000 subs last quarter. I wonder just how many of those 25,000 would have been saved if something had been "worked out" with Voom.


24,999 :grin:


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## grog

Maybe they would not have seen a loss at all. Maybe they would have seen a gain. 



kal915 said:


> 24,999 :grin:


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## Stewart Vernon

This thread reminds me of a conversation I was having recently with someone...

We are bombarded with all the "xx people die of YYYY every 5 seconds" statements for various diseases or violent crimes or whatever... and while that's a daunting thing to think about and lots of stuff could be improved if we worked harder... I can't help but notice how the world population keeps growing! So... on the one hand we have lots of people dying every second needlessly... on the other hand we have slightly more than that being born and surviving too!

Statistics can mean whatever you want them to mean in that moment.


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## whatchel1

I feel that yes there may have been some churn due to the loss of Voom but most of the loss was due to D* turning on their new HD. I've thought about it more than once myself but don't see the advantage. I would have to sign a contract w/D* for 2 yrs and have a HD DVR that is still being called inferior to the E* units. I just read a review in Playback mag on both the E* & D* units and the 622/722's still won over the HR21. One more thing the 722k is about to come out and it will have 2 OTA's and 2 sat tuners. I will probably get it and pay a bit extra for it. My bro is about to drop D* for E* this exact reason. Neither of us are big sports fans so don't need what D8 has in that area. I completely understand why someone that likes sports would go over to D*. I still miss Rave. Pladilla are what ever MHD is now calling itself no where near is as good. Oh by the way I was a Voom legacy that is how I wound up w/ E*.


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## grog

Depends on where you live.
But here in the US we do not have any real positive population growth.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/pg/1a.html

United States is 0.92%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_death_rate
Now the death rate for the United States is 8.2%.

So we have a net loss in the US of 7.28%.

So Dish could claim upto 7.28% as loss due to loss of life.

Now: :backtotop



HDMe said:


> This thread reminds me of a conversation I was having recently with someone...
> 
> We are bombarded with all the "xx people die of YYYY every 5 seconds" statements for various diseases or violent crimes or whatever... and while that's a daunting thing to think about and lots of stuff could be improved if we worked harder... I can't help but notice how the world population keeps growing! So... on the one hand we have lots of people dying every second needlessly... on the other hand we have slightly more than that being born and surviving too!
> 
> Statistics can mean whatever you want them to mean in that moment.


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## grog

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=voom090908.htm



> 2008-09-09
> 
> VOOM HD Heads to Central and South America
> 
> NEW YORK, September 9: VOOM HD Networks has signed a channel representation agreement with DLA, bringing VOOM HD to Central and South America for the first time.
> 
> This is VOOM HD's first extension into the region. In addition to English audio tracks, the channel will be languaged with Spanish and Portuguese subtitles.
> 
> "DLA's expertise and penetration into the Latin American marketplace made the company a natural choice as we looked to grow our channel's reach into this region," said VOOM HD Networks' VP of global operations and business, Glenn Oakley. "We are energized by the opportunities that await and look forward to working with DLA to deliver VOOM HD to Latin American viewers."
> 
> Greg Moyer, VOOM HD Networks' general manager, added: "By adding Latin America to our reach, we now have worldwide sales representation agreements-a gratifying achievement considering we took the VOOM channel global less than two years ago."
> 
> "VOOM HD has earned a global reputation for developing, producing and packaging compelling HD content," commented Antonio Barreto, DLA's CEO. "This reputation, combined with our leadership position in launching top channels into Latin America, has already resulted in early interest from Mexico, Brazil, Chile and Venezuela."


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## Richard King

Gee, being in Florida maybe I could get a grey market dish for Voom. :lol:


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## James Long

grog said:


> Depends on where you live.
> But here in the US we do not have any real positive population growth.
> 
> http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/pg/1a.html
> 
> United States is 0.92%





> So we have a net loss in the US of 7.28%.


Please note that the quoted 0.92% _is_ a NET rate of increase. The gross population increase is enough to cover the gross death rate you quoted plus a few. (US Population is 305,141,901 at the moment, so we're talking about adding 2,807,305 NET people per year. One birth every 7 seconds, One death every 13 seconds, One international migrant (net) every 29 seconds, Net gain of one person every 9 seconds. Source.)

If you want to see a NET loss, look for countries with a negative number on that chart.


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## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> This thread reminds me of a conversation I was having recently with someone...
> 
> We are bombarded with all the "xx people die of YYYY every 5 seconds" statements for various diseases or violent crimes or whatever... and while that's a daunting thing to think about and lots of stuff could be improved if we worked harder... I can't help but notice how the world population keeps growing! So... on the one hand we have lots of people dying every second needlessly... on the other hand we have slightly more than that being born and surviving too!
> 
> Statistics can mean whatever you want them to mean in that moment.


A funny thing happened to me on way to the television section at Wall Mart in Oakland. During the loop that they run, up pops a VOOM ad! I was shocked! Maybe VOOM is Comcast in Oakland like my social worker said.


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## jclewter79

I have seem VOOM on in Wal-Mart and Sams Club. They seem to have some deal with them I don't know where they get it from though.


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## whatchel1

jclewter79 said:


> I have seem VOOM on in Wal-Mart and Sams Club. They seem to have some deal with them I don't know where they get it from though.


How are they receiving it?


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## kal915

whatchel1 said:


> How are they receiving it?


They show them in their demo HDTVs


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## jclewter79

whatchel1 said:


> How are they receiving it?


Well, my guess is that it is some type of recorded content as it runs on a loop. All I can tell you is what I said the first time " I don't know where they get it from though."


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## FTA Michael

Pouring some old news into an older thread. 

In the Cablevision third quarter conference call on Nov. 6, an analyst asked for a Voom litigation update. John Schwartz, Cablevision General Counsel, replied:

"With respect to the Voom litigation, we're not going to comment on the substance of the litigation and what its outcome might be. The only thing we can say is that in terms of its resolution in court in terms of the schedule that the court set itself, there won't be any substantive resolution earlier than late '09."

The full transcript, which assumed that we already knew Schwartz's title, is here: http://seekingalpha.com/article/104...-corporation-q3-2008-earnings-call-transcript


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## phrelin

Oh terrific. 

I guess that means no HD for Dish customers for AMC, Sundance, IFC, WE tv, or Fuse TV in 2009. Over VOOM.:nono:


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## Hound

phrelin said:


> Oh terrific.
> 
> I guess that means no HD for Dish customers for AMC, Sundance, IFC, WE tv, or Fuse TV in 2009. Over VOOM.:nono:


Nor any MSG HD or MSG+ HD. That is four ice hockey teams, all home and away games in HD*, and one basketball team in HD. Some Center Ice subs will go to D* just for that reason.

I bought Mad Men first season in Blu Ray this past weekend for $40.


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