# Software update - When?



## nextime

Any idea when the next software update will be?


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## Mark Lamutt

Very tiny possibility end of this week. We're shooting for end of next week, more realistically, depending on the beta process.


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## invaliduser88

How significant will the next release be? How many of the current issues are being addressed?


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## jal

Mark, is it worth waiting anymore? I'm on the verge of going to cable to get equipment that works. When is NBR comming to the 921?


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## David_Levin

The 921 is not getting NBR, and waiting or not waiting (switching or not switching) is up to you (or at least a subject for a different forum).


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## Allen Noland

It is a safe bet that ZSR are a priority right now


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## Mark Lamutt

What David said, jal. The next update is significant. Unless for some reason that I don't know about there's an emergency update that screws things up again.


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## jal

Thanks for your efforts. I'm looking forward to receiving the update.


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## invaliduser88

Mark Lamutt said:


> What David said, jal. The next update is significant. Unless for some reason that I don't know about there's an emergency update that screws things up again.


And they've caught you off guard a couple of times already!


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## tweaver999

I think the release will be mid May... I bought a HD Tivio and DirectTV installs on Friday. I will run parallel for a bit. I have given up on the 921 and EchoStar will not allow existing customers to get a 942... I have taken some other steps concerning the advertising of the 921. I did not want to make this change, but I am tired of waiting for the next GREAT release that will fix it all. I asked E* why anyone would want to buy a 921 over a 942 and got no answer . I think they will end up giving them away as a promotion. I was told NBR will eventually come to the 921, in the future..... the 942 and the HDTivio has it now...I was told the E* is concerned about their high end users( 921 owners ) but not enough to do anything now but "wait till the next release". I will post again after I have used D* and the Tivo for a couple weeks. I have always been a big fan of the original DVR ReplayTV and have never used a Tivo.. We will see. But enough is enough.


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## HailScroob

Mark Lamutt said:


> What David said, jal. The next update is significant. Unless for some reason that I don't know about there's an emergency update that screws things up again.


I foresee an emergency update very soon&#8230;

I had a timer set record the Charlie Chat on Monday, but all I got was a 692 "not subscribed" error!

Actually, I guess it was pretty accurate: I don't subscribe to anything Charlie says anymore&#8230;


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## passing_ships

I thought the release was supposed to be in April. The silence has been deafening! :shrug:


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## joebird

jal said:


> Thanks for your efforts. I'm looking forward to receiving the update.


Personally, I don't look forward to them anymore, as I don't know if I can trust them. Not sure what they'll break in exchange for what they fix.

And I'm also getting tired of the ever-frequent 692 errors myself.


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## Mark Lamutt

joebird, I can tell you that under the current beta, I haven't had a 692 error once. Maybe that's something to look forward to.


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## invaliduser88

Has the zsr bug when squashed yet?


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## Mark Lamutt

Phase 1 of 2 of ZSR squashing (although I haven't had one of those under this beta either).


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## gsalem

Any idea if the next update will address the 1-2 sec pixelation/audio-dropout
bug? 

George


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## boylehome

gsalem said:


> Any idea if the next update will address the 1-2 sec pixelation/audio-dropout
> bug?
> 
> George


George -

I just sent two files to [email protected]. This is my second email to them about the pixelation. Hopefully, something is getting accomplished. I also sent them an AVI file so they can see the pixelation coming and going. I can't post it here because it is to large.

John


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## Jim Parker

John
Yours looks different than what I see. Yours has blocks spaced pretty evenly over the entire image. Mine is confined to a band across the screen. I don't know if this is significant or not.


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## Neil Derryberry

boylehome said:


> George -
> 
> I just sent two files to [email protected]. This is my second email to them about the pixelation. Hopefully, something is getting accomplished. I also sent them an AVI file so they can see the pixelation coming and going. I can't post it here because it is to large.
> 
> John


The shot on the left looks like RFI... was that OTA or satellite?


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## boylehome

Neil Derryberry said:


> The shot on the left looks like RFI... was that OTA or satellite?


Not OTA. Satellite 148-9484 CBSHD. This channel has assorted pixelation. If you can zoom the picture, you can see choppy block of missing data. The HBOSD and SHOHD on 148 rarely have the amount of pixelation as does CBSHD. What you describe as RFI, I have not seen it on OTA digital channels.


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## Mark Lamutt

boylehome - I'm seeing a lot of breakups like your 2nd picture off of 9484 on my 942 as well. I think it's coming from the uplink of the channel, and not the 921 or 942, but haven't done all of my testing yet. This weekend I hope to have another dish up pointing at 61.5 so that I can directly compare to WCBS-HD.


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## boylehome

Mark Lamutt said:


> boylehome - I'm seeing a lot of breakups like your 2nd picture off of 9484 on my 942 as well. I think it's coming from the uplink of the channel, and not the 921 or 942, but haven't done all of my testing yet. This weekend I hope to have another dish up pointing at 61.5 so that I can directly compare to WCBS-HD.


Mark,

I agree, most likely uplink. Hopefully [email protected] can make some progress.

John


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## David_Levin

Didn't a lot of the smaller breakups start when they went to 3 chanels per transponder (new multipexing)?

Boyle's first picture is a mess. I've never seen anything like this. If it shows up too often, or on multiple channels, I'd suspect a hardware problem (perhaps in the scaler). Could even be on the monitor side, or a DVI issue (I doubt component cabling could introduce this kind of problem).


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## boylehome

David_Levin said:


> Didn't a lot of the smaller breakups start when they went to 3 chanels per transponder (new multipexing)?
> 
> Boyle's first picture is a mess. I've never seen anything like this. If it shows up too often, or on multiple channels, I'd suspect a hardware problem (perhaps in the scaler). Could even be on the monitor side, or a DVI issue (I doubt component cabling could introduce this kind of problem).


David,

It is coming from the satellite like that. Three separate HD receivers have suffered from the pixelation. One HD receiver is on a completely different dish system. It was replayed on the 921 over and over, so it isn't my monitor. It does it in the different video modes like DVI and component. The first picture that is worst rarely happens, much less often than the greenish horizontal bar, that flashes near the top of the screen. BTW [email protected] has admitted to seeing the pixelation.

John


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## FrankD1

Mark Lamutt said:


> Very tiny possibility end of this week. We're shooting for end of next week, more realistically, depending on the beta process.


Mark, is it still looking like this week?


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## Mark Lamutt

Not to me, although as you know, I've been surprised before.


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## AnubisPrime

I get 921 pixelation and sound dropouts and only use S-video on a standard def. tv.

My other receivers 508,301 do not have this happen at all....


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## DonLandis

FrankD1 said:


> Mark, is it still looking like this week?


If you 921 users are becoming desperate for the upgrade and are sick and tired of waiting, you know what to do. I did it in March and it worked. Of course I had to go borderline "postal" and come dangerously close to having Mark ban me from the forum for bashing Eldon but I decided to take that risk and do it anyway as I had just had enough of their arrogance with the 921 fix 1 thing and break 5. So, if you have the balls, go for it and see if you can't shame them into speeding up the new software release. But, be forewarned, you just may get what you asked for which is another bunch of broken features that come with the territory of something minor fixed. As is said, be careful what you ask for!

Personally, I don't care anymore because E* doesn't care about me. I am putting my money with a service provider that works and have taken the 921 frustration out of my life. The 921 is just not worth anymore of my time. I chocked it up to just one bad investment experience but I do recognize that while it was the only thing out there, I did have a better experience with it than the DVHS time shifting system I used before. I'll continue to stop in here once in awhile and help if I can but this post was just to remind any who are frustratingly waiting for the next "fix/break" what I did in March that resulted in pretty fast results.


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## Mark Lamutt

DonLandis said:


> If you 921 users are becoming desperate for the upgrade and are sick and tired of waiting, you know what to do. I did it in March and it worked. ...go for it and see if you can't shame them into speeding up the new software release. But, be forewarned, you just may get what you asked for which is another bunch of broken features that come with the territory of something minor fixed. As is said, be careful what you ask for!


good grief, so now you'd rather shame them into releasing something that's potentially worse now than what you have, just because you're so impatient that waiting another week or two is going to cause your world to end.

If you're (Don and everyone else) so frustrated, just dump the damn thing for $450, take the loss and move on. There's lots of other options available now for you.


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## LASooner

Any word on whether the update is coming tomorrow or not?


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## invaliduser88

At this point, I'm of the opinion that it comes when it comes. I just hope Q&A has improved since the last major release.


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## Mark Lamutt

I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


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## bluegreg

thats all I want is OTA guide data.
then i will be happy.
and when they get mpeg 4 a free upgrade.
thats it.
allthough I did pay too much for nothing.
dish took advantage of there best customers!
there best and most loyal customers!!!!!!!!!!!


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## boylehome

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


The frustration has become a mission, I hope.


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## invaliduser88

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


Not having OTA guide data makes it a real hassle to record OTA HD. And I'd rather watch HD than overcompressed SD via Dish any day.

So OTA guide data is an important feature to me.


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## LASooner

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


So is that a 'No' on tomorrow?


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## dalucca

invaliduser88 said:


> Not having OTA guide data makes it a real hassle to record OTA HD. And I'd rather watch HD than overcompressed SD via Dish any day.
> 
> So OTA guide data is an important feature to me.


I agree. I almost exclusively watch my locals in HD and having the guide and the ability to record OTA HD is a very nice feature to utilize and important to myself as well.


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## darth

Is it true that an OTA guide will never come unless you are subscribed to local channels?


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## jergenf

darth said:


> Is it true that an OTA guide will never come unless you are subscribed to local channels?


That appears to be true. They ended all discussions about adding any new features to the 921 and are just focusing on bug fixes. Below are some features I that had hoped might be added base on some discussions from the past.

Some features mentioned in the past on Charlie Chat and Tech Forum were:

Obtaining local guide info from the digital station itself.
Adding interactive channel 100.
Enabling ports (ie. firewire/USB).
Allowing the 921 to download via USB port to Dish pod media players.
DVD writer expansion option using spare drive bay (or maybe even second drive capability).


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## passing_ships

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


In my opinion, they would do much better if they did frequent releases with single bug fixes rather than this infrequent batching of a lot of bugs together. That would make the permutation of bug fixes easier to test and also easier to roll back when something breaks. Adding new features should be batched at lower frequency, but bug fixes should be released in small chunks almost every week (or whatever the testing cycle time is).

I think this would also result in a much lower level of customer frustration, IMHO.


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## Eagles

LASooner said:


> Any word on whether the update is coming tomorrow or not?


As per the Dish Technical Product Support Group out of Christiansburg, Va. look for something mid May, MAYbe.


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## Mark Lamutt

Channel 100 will be in the next version.


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## Rodney

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that this thread is a good example showing the level of frustration that has built up since the beginning of December. I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


You may have been addressing the level of frustration that has built as a result of the attempt to add the OTA guide, but don't forget the level of frustration that has been building for some of us since December 2003 when the 921 was released.


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## DonLandis

Mark, You misread my post. It was for others. I have already moved on. I pretty much stopped using the 921 back in December. The HDTIVO is too easy and trouble free. You, I assume have also moved on but to the 942 and remain with the 921 only for these tests. Unfortunately due to some idiotic E* policy many who would jump to the 942 are not permitted. I already told you I would not get the 942 even if they offered it to me for under $200. It's really not worth it to me. Besides, when I do watch the 921, the main issue that broke in December was fixed and that was the jitters. I suppose I would have those ZRT's too but I just don't use the DVR enough to experience the bug. 
And, just to be clear, I don't care if E* ever issues another software update. I really have given up on them.


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## Jerry G

invaliduser88 said:


> Not having OTA guide data makes it a real hassle to record OTA HD. And I'd rather watch HD than overcompressed SD via Dish any day.
> 
> So OTA guide data is an important feature to me.


I did it manually for a long time. Sure it's a bit of a hassle. But look at the problems that have been a result of having adding the OTA guide. They have effectively crippled the 921. I'd rather set the OTA timers manually than have what we are experiencing now.


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## Jerry G

Mark Lamutt said:


> I really wish that they had never tried to add the OTA guide data...


I completely agree. I programmed my OTA manually for a long time and would have preferred to continue doing that if it meant avoiding the mess we have now. I believe if they ever tried to add NBR, the 921 would suffer a physical meltdown.


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## Jerry G

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you're (Don and everyone else) so frustrated, just dump the damn thing for $450, take the loss and move on. There's lots of other options available now for you.


I wish it were that easy. But there really aren't a lot of good choices for some of us. After experiencing the 921 mess, I'd be very hesitant to buy the 942. And even if it does prove to be more reliable, I wouldn't spend the money knowing I'd have to spend money in the future on an MPEG4 compatible STB if I want more HD channels. That also prevents me from switching to DirecTV, knowing they will also require MPEG4 for more HD channels. Cable in my area is Adelphia, with the least number of HD channels of an HD cable provider.

So, I'm really stuck with the 921 for now. That's why it's so important to have it get back to the decent functionality it had before the most recent software updates. I'd be satisfied if they would just reissue the software from before the OTA guide and forget the guide. If DirecTV had an MPEG4 HD PVR, I'd be more that happy to junk the 921 and take the loss right now. But I'll have to wait. The day that DirecTV does come out with an MPEG4 HD PVR will be the day I leave Dish forever.


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## dalucca

Jerry, I totally agree. After feeling the pain and frustration after installing my 921 I almost jumped shipped to DirectTV. Unfortunately I could not swallow the money it would have cost me to replace with equal like equipment. And like so many others I am not going to sink any additional money and upgrade to a 942.

When DirectTV does come out with their MPEG4 HD PVR it will probably be the day I also leave Dish.


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## DonLandis

_That also prevents me from switching to DirecTV, knowing they will also require MPEG4 for more HD channels._

The difference is that DirecTV has made certain claims public. E* has been rather quiet on what direction they will take. DirecTV has claimed a strategy for quantity of HD channels. Then have an open architecture for HD DVR mfg. allowing other makers of receivers to build and sell D* HD DVR's in addition to Tivo. In otherwords, Tivo will no longer have the exclusive. Plus, they discussed at CES they will be making a swap of DVR's to the MPEG4 DVR of your choice when the time comes to switch mpeg2 off. Whether we can believe that remains to be seen. What all this means to me is that in the future, I will have my best choice of HDTV with D* and have a choice of DVR's. Will it cost? Frankly, I think they will make all current TIVO owners pay something to upgrade even though they said the only cost will be a new contract to stay with D* for a year or two depending. Once D* finalizes some plan, I'd bet Charlie will follow closely to stay competitive except in one area, you will still have one choice for hardware which we know is not a very good one. 
Having used the HDTIVO for nearly a year and the 921 for over a year, to me, it's no contest. HDTIVO is a clear winner. 921 isn't even close in performance score.


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## HDCOFFEY

invaliduser88 said:


> Not having OTA guide data makes it a real hassle to record OTA HD. And I'd rather watch HD than overcompressed SD via Dish any day.
> 
> So OTA guide data is an important feature to me.


Could not agree more.....


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## welchwarlock

Mark Lamutt said:


> Very tiny possibility end of this week. We're shooting for end of next week, more realistically, depending on the beta process.


It's always dangerous to make predicitions, and this one did not come true. Could you update your prediction?


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## Mark Lamutt

Like I said, we were shooting for it... :shrug:


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## cleblanc

Mark - do you have a new estimate?


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## Mark Lamutt

Yeah, and I'm not happy about it...

Mid-May

yelling/screaming/bashing/complaining isn't going to do any good, so please keep it to yourself.


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## Eagles

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yeah, and I'm not happy about it...
> 
> Mid-May
> 
> yelling/screaming/bashing/complaining isn't going to do any good, so please keep it to yourself.


Mark,
I guess our mutual Dish Network friend out of Virginia was right when she told me mid May back in the beginning of April.


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## FaxMan

Aw c'mon Mark... Can't we all circle up and shoot the messenger? 

!pu****!


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## Mark Lamutt

Sure, go ahead...abuse makes me happy...


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## lujan

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yeah, and I'm not happy about it...
> 
> Mid-May
> 
> yelling/screaming/bashing/complaining isn't going to do any good, so please keep it to yourself.


Well, I hope if it's not going to be until mid-May, then both ZSR updates will be combined into one update. Am I dreaming?


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## TonyB

I said June back a couple of months ago - Mark said mid may - so add 2-3 weeks to that and we're in June. We seem to be slipping 2 weeks for every week that goes by - Eldon Hacks haven't got a clue!


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## Mark Lamutt

I don't know, lujan.


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## Jim Parker

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yeah, and I'm not happy about it...
> 
> Mid-May
> 
> yelling/screaming/bashing/complaining isn't going to do any good, so please keep it to yourself.


Well, thanks for letting us know anyway.


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## Ron Barry

Mid May... Ouch!!! No yealling/screaming/bashing/complaining. Just Ouching!


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## David_Levin

So when was L211 released (last real update)?

Seems like it's been a long time.


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## Bradtothebone

Sounds like a good topic for the Tech Chat on May 9. I hope we get to see the Eldon Geeks again!


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## jsanders

We've seen this pattern many times before.

Nearly every time we have had an "emergency" release, it has turned into a place holder that a real release had. Emergency releases haven't ever done anything substantial (this time it gave people the opportunity to re-install that had font problems), however, in the end, they *always* seem to delay the next release by one entire release cycle. It appears to be a way of blowing smoke.


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## boylehome

jsanders said:


> We've seen this pattern many times before.
> 
> Nearly every time we have had an "emergency" release, it has turned into a place holder that a real release had. Emergency releases haven't ever done anything substantial (this time it gave people the opportunity to re-install that had font problems), however, in the end, they *always* seem to delay the next release by one entire release cycle. It appears to be a way of blowing smoke.


I agree with your information but I also want to add, that if the truth is known, the software experts working on the problems can not get a handle on the problems. I sure hope that they get it figured out and get it right! Another way to look at this is that the 921 is a failure and the belated and problematic software updates keep us in limbo from getting things accomplished. I don't consider this bashing but rather painful truths. Slap me silly if I'm wrong :nono2:


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## ggw2000

Personally speaking "only", just to buck the crowd, I don't want to see any SW upgrades! My 15 month old 921 is running better than ever. Granted I do not use it for OTA and believe you guys are having a lot of problems in this area. But i've had only 2 or 3 ZSRs in the past 6 months and all of them were on CBSHD. Knock on wood none at all in the past two months. In the end the 921 is a "dead" issue that Charlie would like to see disappear ASAP. I predicted this 6 months ago and for the most part quit posting then and only checked in about once a month here to see the same problems, etc.. I'm sure that everyone has gotten their letter from Charlie offering a 942 for a $100 upgrade because of the pain he has put us through-NOT! If anyone thinks that he gives a rats butt about 921 owners, then you should really get off the uppers and back to reality. 
The bottom line is to try and keep her going as long as possible in order to try an recoup as much of our $1000 (in my case) or $500 outlay. In the end we all made the decision and just maybe will learn from it.. Gerry


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## Allen Noland

OK. There is hope. Keep the faith. About everyone knows how Microsoft does updates. The original OS comes out. For a long time after that "Windows Update" installs updates and patches. Then the Service Pack hits that can contain 100's of fixes and updates. It's about time for a 921 Service Pack.


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## bluegreg

Hey guys the funny thing is that the updade is mid May of 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not 2005 so we can keep each other entertained with this site.
I want an ugrade to 942. Nothing less than OTA guide will satisfy me or an upgrade. 
Do you hear me dish?
I want an upgrade...
disgruntled dish customer 12 years and many recievers plus paid full price for 921!
oh yeah and I got you at least 6 new customers. lets see I have sepent probably $10,000 wth you and earned you probably $25,000-$30,000 and if I were a customer for another 12 years probably antoher $15,000 income for you. think about it.


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## invaliduser88

Mark Lamutt said:


> Sure, go ahead...abuse makes me happy...


:kickbutt: Take that!

:bonk1: and that!

:raspberry

:engel10:


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## lujan

bluegreg said:


> Hey guys the funny thing is that the updade is mid May of 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> not 2005 so we can keep each other entertained with this site.
> I want an ugrade to 942. Nothing less than OTA guide will satisfy me or an upgrade.
> Do you hear me dish?
> I want an upgrade...
> disgruntled dish customer 12 years and many recievers plus paid full price for 921!
> oh yeah and I got you at least 6 new customers. lets see I have sepent probably $10,000 wth you and earned you probably $25,000-$30,000 and if I were a customer for another 12 years probably antoher $15,000 income for you. think about it.


All of that is just a drop in the bucket for E*, do you seriously think they care about how much you've spent with them?


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## jsanders

lujan said:


> All of that is just a drop in the bucket for E*, do you seriously think they care about how much you've spent with them?


Uh, yea. E* cares about how much you spend, it adds to their bottom line. They also care about how much money you give them and not to the other guys. That is how competition is defined. Publicly traded companies try to earn as much $$ as they can.


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## lujan

jsanders said:


> Uh, yea. E* cares about how much you spend, it adds to their bottom line. They also care about how much money you give them and not to the other guys. That is how competition is defined. Publicly traded companies try to earn as much $$ as they can.


I'm talking about any one person. They certainly do not care if any one person were to leave E*. If there was a mass exit by hundreds or thousand, it would be a different story.


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## David_Levin

Yes, but if each time someone leaves you say "that's ok, it's only 1 person", you soon have an exodus.

That's why E* has a "Customer Retention" department who is highly motivated to keep you from leaving (they've been known to stretch the truth more then Mrs. Incredible).

And customers are given a value grading based on $$$/month, calls to CS, payment promptness, etc.

Charlie may not personally look at individual subs. But, if he has 1000 customer service peope (hired to look at indviduals), and each one talks to 16 customers per day... In a week they've talked to twice as many subs as Voom had at thier peak.


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## jsanders

lujan said:


> I'm talking about any one person. They certainly do not care if any one person were to leave E*. If there was a mass exit by hundreds or thousand, it would be a different story.


Yes, they do. Read David's comment, he explained it well! Those retention people are not free. E* actually invests money to retain customers. The investment they make shows how much they want an *individual's* money every month.


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## bluegreg

I dont matter to E*. It is obvious by there actions with the 921 and probably some of their best customers. what strong loyalty they built over many years of outstanding service has been erased with this fiasco. I dont care what they think of me as one person. I pay for my service and they give me what I want its all my choice what I do.
I won't reccomend other customers and I will make sure I get every $'s worth of service I pay for. I wonder how they treat mark? all the time and grief he has gone through!


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## Allen Noland

Allen Noland said:


> OK. There is hope. Keep the faith. About everyone knows how Microsoft does updates. The original OS comes out. For a long time after that "Windows Update" installs updates and patches. Then the Service Pack hits that can contain 100's of fixes and updates. It's about time for a 921 Service Pack.


No one is paying attention.


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## boylehome

bluegreg said:


> Hey guys the funny thing is that the updade is mid May of 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't know where you got this information but if it is true, I give up, will throw in the towel, and will yell, "Ollie, Ollie, oxen free." Now Allen Noland has given us a good clue. What is concerning is that it generally takes MS a year or more to actually issue the service pack. Looking at it from the MS perspective, I would say we were due for the service pack around January of 05. If it is really pending until 2006, hopefully I'll be in possession of MPEG4 equipment!


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## JM Anthony

I'm from the "A watched pot never boils" camp. It will be nice when the next round of major fixes installed, but it sounds like it will take at least another round before the 921 becomes more functional. I can live with that. I'm sitting tight on my 921 until I've got something better to jump to.


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## SimpleSimon

I missed the original post - but the 921 "Service Pack" has already been released - the same way as the Windows Me "Service Pack" was WinXP, the 921's is the 942.

Remember how M$ treated WinMe - well, we're in the same boat, and tunaboy has jammed the oars where the sun don't shine on us. 

I suppose someone will get around to doing another class-action suit like the DishPlayer, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that the tunaboy has already printed a couple of extra PPV coupons.


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## David_Levin

bluegreg said:


> I want an ugrade to 942. Nothing less than OTA guide will satisfy me or an upgrade.
> Do you hear me dish?
> I want an upgrade...


I'd like to give Dish the benefit of the doubt. With the upcoming switch to mpeg 4 it really doesn't make sense for Dish to swap 921's for 942's.

Hopefully there will be some kind of swap/upgrade offer when the new receivers are ready.


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## Allen Noland

There were 6 service packs for Windows NT before the stopped support for it. Windows 2000 was already out for the last 1 or 2 of those. SP4 for windows 2000 came out long after SP1 for windows XP. 

As far as service packs, focus on size, not timing.


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## jsanders

Okay Allen, I will bite.

When do you think this service pack is coming??


----------



## UT_Texan

Allen Noland said:


> There were 6 service packs for Windows NT before the stopped support for it. Windows 2000 was already out for the last 1 or 2 of those. SP4 for windows 2000 came out long after SP1 for windows XP.
> 
> As far as service packs, focus on size, not timing.


Then this "service pack" is a fluke. It was suppose to come out in march, then april, now may with rumors of june. I can't honestly believe they keep pushing back the release because they simply are adding more fixes. The problems are far too severe to excuse this. For example, I asked Mark about the slow motion problem where it actually skips forward before the slow motion starts. His response was



Mark Lamutt said:


> Good grief...this one is so minor compared to the other problems right now...it'll get there, but not before the ZSR and wiping out the hard drive bugs are fixed.


So to me that says they aren't even looking into this one yet.

maybe I will be proven wrong but to me it seems as though the delays occur because they don't have a handle on the root causes of the issues, especially when you read Mark's feedback about some of the issues.

What is also as equally as important as when is what will the fixes be since there will be so many


----------



## hgeyer

Let me begin by saying that like many others here, I started having serious ZTR problems (combined with a friendly "drive wipe" every couple of days) about one month after receiving 2.12. After waiting for over 60 days for a fix, I came to a realization* - Dish has no incentive to expedite a fix to the problems with the 921. Think about it, they've already released the 942, and we're a captive customer base with a HUGE sunk cost.

Well, it got me thinking - the only incentives that will motivate DISH to deal with the 921 issue are financial incentives. I decided to call customer support and request a new box under my 1 year warranty. Dish 2nd day UPSed a new unit (along with return shipping - a cost that I estimate to exceed $50 in total), and I now have a new box that has worked flawlessly for over two months.

The costs to Dish are significant: they've paid about $50 in shipping, and are stuck with a 921 unit that is both defective and being fazed out of service. If everyone on this board alone who is experiencing problems began simply demanding a warranty replacement, the costs would add up quickly. At some point, the cost-benefit analysis would require that Dish allocate the proper resources and attention to properly address the 921 problem.

It's basic economics - people respond to incentives, and the heat that Mark takes on this board is insignificant to a corporation as large and complex as Dish. Because the 921 came with a 1 year warranty, I suspect that Dish hopes that people will begin to roll off of their warranty period and lose any rights and/or remedies.

As for me, my new 921 hasn't ZTR'd once. I still get the aspect ration lock-up problem, a problem that I can live with.

HGeyer :soapbox: 
Frustrated 921 user.

* - Actually, I had started reading a book called 'Freakonomics,' written by a University of Chicago professor named Steven Levitt - a great read that I highly recommend. It looks at everyday problems from a economic perspective.


----------



## Allen Noland

jsanders said:


> Okay Allen, I will bite.
> 
> When do you think this service pack is coming??


I don't know when for sure, but they are working very hard to fix the ZSR's. I haven't had a ZSR in a while now.


----------



## Rodney

I wonder if ZSRs are found in a particular series of 921 receivers. I do a ton of recordings both OTA and Satellite and have never had a ZSR.


----------



## boylehome

Rodney said:


> I wonder if ZSRs are found in a particular series of 921 receivers. I do a ton of recordings both OTA and Satellite and have never had a ZSR.


I hope you never have one with a drive wipe. To me it has been the worst experience out of all the 921 bugs. One of our moderators mentioned recently (right above your post  )that there has been a decrease of ZSR's. The superstitious minded person that I am, I suspect that there will be a flurry of them since that was said. I think that it can happen to any series of 921, there is just some type of software/hardware burp that causes ZSR's.


----------



## Jim Parker

I had a dozen or so ZSRs after 212, but have not had one for the last 2 weeks. I have not had a drive wipe - yet. My box is out of warranty since I got it Dec 31, 2003. If I do get a drive wipe, I plan on signing up for the extended warranty and then get it replaced.


----------



## Paradox-sj

Rodney said:


> I wonder if ZSRs are found in a particular series of 921 receivers. I do a ton of recordings both OTA and Satellite and have never had a ZSR.


Be glad. I had never had any issue with my 921 until that fatefull day arrived and I recieved my first ZSR and drive wiping experience. After that it never opperated the same again. I know the two part fix is coming but waiting around 8 weeks or so for them to arrive was not /is not an option. I've sinced replaced my 921 with the 942 and although not perfect by anymeans it is more polished.


----------



## Michael P

Mark Lamutt said:


> Channel 100 will be in the next version.


I'm surprised that nobody commented on this. I guess all the bugs overshadow the lack of ITV on the 921. If we do indeed get ITV on the 921, will the remote be responsive enough on the games? Right now the few games that are on 921 are frustrating to play due to the poor responsiveness of the remote.

As fo all the griping about the major bugs, I too had them (ZSR's of death). My experience with the "advance 921 team" was pleasant, thanks to Mark for getting my problem addressed. Calling on you own (without Mark's intervention) is not recommended.


----------



## pdlittle

Michael P said:


> As fo all the griping about the major bugs, I too had them (ZSR's of death). My experience with the "advance 921 team" was pleasant, thanks to Mark for getting my problem addressed. Calling on you own (without Mark's intervention) is not recommended.


I agree that Calling Dish on your own is completely ineffective. I too have experienced the drive wipe. I reported it to Dish and was promised a 48 response from the engineering team and I have never received a call back. Fortunately, I followed Mark's suggested recovery method and the unit is now functioning normally. So I don't really need a call back at this point unless Dish would like to compensate me for the loss of recorded programing that I will never get to watch. (I'm not hopefull of that ever becoming a reality).

Since the unit is now working again, I've decided it's not worth having Mark intercede. I've chosen to reserve that for a more pressing need that I hope never occurs.


----------



## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Is it still on schedule for Mid-May? And which version will be a bigger fix: 214 or 215? I hope that most of the current bugs will get squashed with the 214 and 215 an incremental improvement toward perfection.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

214 is huge. And as far as I know, we're on schedule. I anticipate 2 more betas before release.


----------



## dishbacker

Mark Lamutt said:


> Channel 100 will be in the next version.





Michael P said:


> I'm surprised that nobody commented on this. I guess all the bugs overshadow the lack of ITV on the 921. If we do indeed get ITV on the 921, will the remote be responsive enough on the games? Right now the few games that are on 921 are frustrating to play due to the poor responsiveness of the remote.
> 
> As fo all the griping about the major bugs, I too had them (ZSR's of death). My experience with the "advance 921 team" was pleasant, thanks to Mark for getting my problem addressed. Calling on you own (without Mark's intervention) is not recommended.


The bigger question is will it work (or better stated half-work) like the version on the 721 or work like it does on the other receivers out there. I've read posts about Dish Home apps not being able to run on the 721.


----------



## Eagles

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> Is it still on schedule for Mid-May?


Wild guess! May 17th.


----------



## David_Levin

I can't believe they put resources into channel 100. I could care less. Think I tried it once on my 510.

I could start a poll.....

Do you care about ITV?

Not sure it if belongs here. Perhaps it does if it's pulling resources from other bug fixes/improvments.


----------



## Jim Parker

Jim Parker said:


> I had a dozen or so ZSRs after 212, but have not had one for the last 2 weeks.


I spoke too soon. Got another ZSR on DiscoveryHD last night.


----------



## remdam

Mark,

Thanks for the update to the question that this thread is suppose to be
about. Thanks again for your hard work.


----------



## tahoerob

Mark Lamutt said:


> 214 is huge. And as far as I know, we're on schedule. I anticipate 2 more betas before release.


Are we looking at this month for 214???

BTW, any inside scoop on upgrading to mpeg4 receivers?? Full trade?? Discounted??


----------



## boylehome

My prediction is the last week of May or the first week of June of this year.


----------



## lujan

boylehome said:


> My prediction is the last week of May or the first week of June of this year.


Are you sure about this year? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Justcoz

The tech I spoke to yesterday said 5/19 would be the roll out date for 214. Personally, I will not be holding my breath


----------



## Leroy

For me the 213 has been ok the only concern I had was the re-mapping for the PBS station does not work for the guide info, but other wise bearable.
I have a feeling the 214 is going to be a pleasant surprise


----------



## DonLandis

Since L213 was nothing more than some maintenance update for the DST bug that is only an issue twice a year, I stand by my original ETA of First half of June because their track record has been to release in 3 month cycles since September. Now for the bad news. Every other update is a disaster. Last update in March fixed the stutters. The June update will break something major again, right?
Here's another "insider tidbit" The concept that junking the 921 and buying a 942 is not all that unheard of inside the walls of E*. This is a valid approach to fixing all that doesn't work on the 921. Unfortunately, the reports from 942 owners is not all a perfect world either. Serious issues but just not as many. Hopefully the 942 team will have less trouble fixing the few 942 tuner/DD problems.


----------



## invaliduser88

Justcoz said:


> The tech I spoke to yesterday said 5/19 would be the roll out date for 214. Personally, I will not be holding my breath


Same day as the release of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith...that's ominous...:grin:


----------



## DonLandis

FYI- Since I'm back using the 921 again since adding Voom 10, I'll also be back to badgering E* as I did in the past.


----------



## invaliduser88

The more the merrier!


----------



## lujan

DonLandis said:


> FYI- Since I'm back using the 921 again since adding Voom 10, I'll also be back to badgering E* as I did in the past.


Don, if you want to update your signature, the L213 was released on April 1st, 2005 because it was April Fool's Day. :lol:


----------



## DonLandis

lujan-

Yes, I know but I didn't get the update on 4-1 because my 921 was disconnected. I hooked it back up the next week for a few days and it was still at L212. Then I went to NAB and returned home. The 921 was off (standby) during that week and I checked so sometime during the week I was away it self updated but I don't know exactly what day. I didn't reboot manually since powering it back up sometime after 4-3 but it was rebooted on L212 as I checked. 
Hey, you had to ask for the "?" explanation. 

PS- my 921 made 3 recordings without incident (local CBS and one HDNet) while I was away and during the update process.


----------



## lujan

Ok Don, I just liked your signature because I could quickly see when each of the updates were done. I guess I'll have to add a signature to mine so that I can add L213.

Thanks


----------



## DonLandis

Better?


----------



## lujan

Thanks Don!


----------



## tahoerob

Justcoz said:


> The tech I spoke to yesterday said 5/19 would be the roll out date for 214. Personally, I will not be holding my breath


problem will be that all of tech support will call in sick to go see the movie!! :lol:


----------



## Rodney

Mark,

Is this the week?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Maybe. I've heard the 19th being talked about, but don't have confirmation from Eldon. So, we'll see...


----------



## Allen Noland

Next week.


----------



## Eagles

Allen Noland said:


> Next week.


Yeah Right. I have some swamp land in Florida if your interested :lol: 
All kidding aside my fustration continues to mount. I notice the 942 just had another update. Talk about throwing salt in the wounds.


----------



## leemathre

Eagles said:


> I notice the 942 just had another update. Talk about throwing salt in the wounds.


Check the release notes for the 942 update. It wasn't worth talking about.


----------



## boylehome

leemathre said:


> Check the release notes for the 942 update. It wasn't worth talking about.


Fewer bugs=smaller updates!


----------



## BobMurdoch

Rodney said:


> I wonder if ZSRs are found in a particular series of 921 receivers. I do a ton of recordings both OTA and Satellite and have never had a ZSR.


It seems to hit two groups of people fairly regularly, those with OTA antennas and those with SW64 switches who look at three birds (I'm in this group). I also have one of the original batch of 921s (mine has the firewire ports still mocking me on the back).

I am the latter and I get a ZSR about once every two weeks, but I don't have an OTA antenna hooked up.


----------



## leemathre

boylehome said:


> Fewer bugs=smaller updates!


Actually, I don't find that the 942 has fewer bugs than the 921. I think that it is the least reliable of all of my receivers. I now only use it as a last resort.


----------



## ibglowin

Hmmm....

I just added an SW64 last week so I could get Voom on both my 921's. I have an original 921 with cool looking dishwire ports as well as one with out. I have never had any ZSR except for a time when the OTA channel I was recording was off the air. I will let you know if I start seeing them now with the SW64 added.



BobMurdoch said:


> It seems to hit two groups of people fairly regularly, those with OTA antennas and those with SW64 switches who look at three birds (I'm in this group). I also have one of the original batch of 921s (mine has the firewire ports still mocking me on the back).
> 
> I am the latter and I get a ZSR about once every two weeks, but I don't have an OTA antenna hooked up.


----------



## DonLandis

I had a ZSR last summer that wipped my HD clean. I was one of the first to report this incident. I have not had one since. I have the Dishwire 921 original and an SW64 switch and use OTA antenna. However, I mostly record some specific program events. I rely on the HR10-250 for my routine time shifting since it just never fails. Probably the main reason why I have had few problems on the 921 since buying the HR10-250 is because I just don't use the 921 much. IMO, the ones who experience the most problems with their 921's are those who rely on it for heavy recording/ playback use.


----------



## ibglowin

Yea, I know Bob sorta pushes things to the limit on his 921. We usually have only 5 or 6 timers fire in any given week, but I need them to fire for sure. I like to archive my favorites to DVD and many are never repeated (Survivor, Amazing Race)


----------



## David_Levin

Don,

Did you try to play back the ZSR?

Shame on you for pressing the "PLAY" button on the remote :bang .


----------



## Eagles

Allen Noland said:


> Next week.


My inside source at Dish now says May 25th as a new "scheduled" release date. 
This offer is only good until the 25th :lol:


----------



## TonyB

Eagles said:


> My inside source at Dish now says May 25th as a new "scheduled" release date.
> This offer is only good until the 25th :lol:


Don't you mean the 24th? I still say June (forecasted back months ago)


----------



## langlin

A "watched" software never spools!


----------



## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Are we there yet? D'oh! It's on the 24th now?!


----------



## AVJohnnie

langlin said:


> A "watched" software never spools!


Conversely, *"A botched software always spoils!"* :lol:

--John


----------



## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Bump. When is it coming? It's the 25th now...


----------



## BobMurdoch

ibglowin said:


> Yea, I know Bob sorta pushes things to the limit on his 921. We usually have only 5 or 6 timers fire in any given week, but I need them to fire for sure. I like to archive my favorites to DVD and many are never repeated (Survivor, Amazing Race)


(Scotty from Star Trek)

"For God sakes man, ye canna push me poor bairns any har-durr or she'll have a crash like Talladega on a wet after-nooooon"

Most of my ZSRs come on HDNet on Thursdays when I have a bunch of timers active, or on Wednesdays when the World Poker Tour and King of Queens on CBS-HD try to fire........


----------



## Eagles

Eagles said:


> My inside source at Dish now says May 25th as a new "scheduled" release date.
> This offer is only good until the 25th :lol:


Well, I guess this offer has expired. So much for my inside source at Dish


----------



## boylehome

Eagles said:


> Well, I guess this offer has expired. So much for my inside source at Dish


Yes, I did power cord re-boots on mine this morning in hopes that all systems were go at the time of the download. It makes a person wonder if they have a handle on all the bugs.


----------



## astrotrf

boylehome said:


> It makes a person wonder if they have a handle on all the bugs.


It doesn't make _me_ wonder at all!  :nono2:


----------



## Eagles

Allen Noland said:


> Next week.


The silence speaks volumes. I fear something bad has happened. No moderator input. My Dish/921 source does not respond to my e-mail inquiries, where in the past I have received responses within the hour. All in the know were pointing to this week for the release. Now we have silence and a dead thread. I hope I'm wrong, but based on past Dish performance in this area I'm not real confident.


----------



## TonyB

astrotrf said:


> It doesn't make _me_ wonder at all!  :nono2:


Like I said - If they had a handle on a bug, they would know its cause and thus would know its fix. When they (through Mark) say its "better" then it means they still do not understand the underlying problem. Until they belive its "fully fixed" it means they do NOT understand it.

In my mind, a good indicator of when somebody working on software and doesn't understand it is when they partially fix something and in the process break something else. Many of the problems I saw in August 2004 are either fixed or less prevalent - BUT - they have been replaced by an equal number of new ones. There is NO excuse for problems to appera that were not there a year ago. eg. Stuck in stretch mode.

If my PC (and others of course) had to be rebooted every night I am sure both hp (et al) and Microsoft would have serious court battles on their hands. Its one thing for s'w to have a few "non operational" sections in it, but to have it all degrade during the day so that a reboot is required is ridiculous. Yes, I am keeping the 921 for a while - but just until an mpeg4 HD with record capability is available at a reasonable cost - and its NOT from E*. I actually think that the big shakeout of video delivery will be good for the consumer are people like Ergen will go by the boards. Soon we will have the choice of cable, fiber (telephone co), satellite all vying for business in Video, phone and computer access - EXCEPT most likely satellite, since they have a much harder time with 2 way communication. For most of us in non really rural areas, it will be between telephone co and cable. They already offer telphone and internet connections, the only one left is video - and people like Verizon are currently deploying fiber to the house to supply video.


----------



## rstaples

TonyB said:


> Like I said - If they had a handle on a bug, they would know its cause and thus would know its fix. When they (through Mark) say its "better" then it means they still do not understand the underlying problem. Until they belive its "fully fixed" it means they do NOT understand it.
> 
> In my mind, a good indicator of when somebody working on software and doesn't understand it is when they partially fix something and in the process break something else. Many of the problems I saw in August 2004 are either fixed or less prevalent - BUT - they have been replaced by an equal number of new ones. There is NO excuse for problems to appera that were not there a year ago. eg. Stuck in stretch mode.


I agree with most of what you say Tony. However, I do not believe that Verizon or anyone else is currently providing fibre to your home. To your pole maybe, but to your home? Optic fibre transmits light, has bandwidth of 2GHz, and can potentially carry gigabytes of data/per sec. Coaxial cable operates around 100MHZ and can carry ~100 MB/sec. and THAT will likely be how you connect to the fibre. If anyone did connect fibre directly to the home, it would obviously be a huge advantage.


----------



## bhawley

rstaples said:


> I agree with most of what you say Tony. However, I do not believe that Verizon or anyone else is currently providing fibre to your home. To your pole maybe, but to your home?


http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=90601



> The company has deployed its fiber-to-the-premises network in more than 100 communities across its service territory, and it plans to reach a total of 3 million homes by the end of this year


----------



## Bogney

rstaples said:


> I do not believe that Verizon or anyone else is currently providing fibre to your home.


Verizon FIOS is providing fiber directly to the home in some communities already. http://www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/channels/fios/HighSpeedInternetForHome.asp


----------



## Allen Noland

L214 will not be released this Month.


----------



## ayalbaram

Allen Noland said:


> L214 will not be released this Month.


I'm shocked!!!


----------



## AVJohnnie

Allen Noland said:


> L214 will not be released this Month.


Figures...  All resources redirected to more pressing issues ... _(like getting the 942 stable again...) _ :eek2:


----------



## bhawley

Allen Noland said:


> L214 will not be released this Month.


 TimeWarner looks better and better


----------



## rstaples

bhawley said:


> http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=90601


They may call it fibre to the home but if you look at this statement from their own description: 
"Today, Seidenberg noted, customers served by Verizon's fiber network can sign up for blazing-fast FiOS Internet Service, which delivers speeds up to 30 Mbps (megabits per second) downstream and 5 Mbps upstream. For video, the network will deliver 100 Mbps downstream and up to 15 Mbps upstream, making FiOS the fastest interactive network being deployed in America today."

Fibre is 2 GIGABITS and their FIOS is only 100 Mbps which means, while it IS very fast, it is nowhere near fibre speeds. Of course I do not KNOW yet, but my guess is they offer fibre to the pole and cable/wire to the house which limits the maximum throughput as I stated in my previous message. How else would you explain the EXTREME speed difference?


----------



## rstaples

Bogney said:


> Verizon FIOS is providing fiber directly to the home in some communities already. http://www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/channels/fios/HighSpeedInternetForHome.asp


Those are not fibre speeds. Fibre is a 2 gigabit technology so you are NOT getting fibre to your modem or TV.


----------



## Allen Noland

AVJohnnie said:


> Figures...  All resources redirected to more pressing issues ... _(like getting the 942 stable again...) _ :eek2:


Actually this is not the case. The 921 team is not envolved with the 942 at all. There is one more bug they want to squish before the release.


----------



## ggw2000

bhawley said:


> TimeWarner looks better and better


Signed up for Time Warner last week. Currently running both systems and will make a final decision in the next month or two. If TW had CBS and FOX in HD in our area I would probably be taking down my dishes this weekend  . Currently they only have ABC and NBC as far as major networks.. The problem is when are the other two going to come on line. Gerry


----------



## TonyB

rstaples said:


> Those are not fibre speeds. Fibre is a 2 gigabit technology so you are NOT getting fibre to your modem or TV.


The point is not whether there is fiber to the TV set but whether they can deliver TV (HD of course) to the consumer. ie. Can they compete with Cable for the TV market. They already can do phone (just like cable does now) and internet at acceptable speeds (again, just like cable does now). The HD would complete the offering against cable!

As for Satellite - they can do HD, but not phone or internet at consumer (and competitive) prices.


----------



## rstaples

TonyB said:


> The point is not whether there is fiber to the TV set but whether they can deliver TV (HD of course) to the consumer. ie. Can they compete with Cable for the TV market. They already can do phone (just like cable does now) and internet at acceptable speeds (again, just like cable does now). The HD would complete the offering against cable!
> 
> As for Satellite - they can do HD, but not phone or internet at consumer (and competitive) prices.


I was just responding to the quote that said Verizon were connecting fibre to the home nothing more and nothing less. It appears they are most likely doing what we do at work and use a fibre backbone, but cat 5 or cable to the computers or, in this case, the home. This is a VERY different thing as throughput is dramatically reduced because you cut the pipline speeds by a factor of 20 or more when you connect via wire so technical details ARE important! In order to maintain maximum throughput you must maintain fibre to the device. Cat6 and Cat5E is said to be able to deliver 1 gig but, to my knowledge, the VERY small number of Cat6 installations in our state do not actually test to 1 gig! At least that is what one of the installers told me when we were updating our switches.

As to delivering HD to the home, cable can already do this but increased bandwidth would allow more HD channels and less compresion among other things.


----------



## bhawley

ggw2000 said:


> Signed up for Time Warner last week. Currently running both systems and will make a final decision in the next month or two. If TW had CBS and FOX in HD in our area I would probably be taking down my dishes this weekend  . Currently they only have ABC and NBC as far as major networks.. The problem is when are the other two going to come on line. Gerry


Here in Raleigh NC TW will switch me from sat. to cable for around $80 mo.
for 18 months, including all digital channel plus all movie packages (4) plus all
HD packages (2) and all local HD (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX), plus SA 8300HD
pvr. How does this compare to NY? What box did you get and what are your
thoughts on how it works?

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## bhawley

rstaples said:


> I was just responding to the quote that said Verizon were connecting fibre to the home nothing more and nothing less. It appears they are most likely doing what we do at work and use a fibre backbone, but cat 5 or cable to the computers or, in this case, the home.


Not to beat a horse  but from an actual install report:

http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,13202729?hilite=ont



> Good news, some progress; a "cable tech" arrived in a Verizon truck to install a fibre cable drop from the pole across the street from my house to the side of my house. This was a friendly talkative fellow who said he had been doing copper for many years and jumped at the opportunity to learn and install fiber.


----------



## rstaples

bhawley said:


> Not to beat a horse  but from an actual install report:
> 
> http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,13202729?hilite=ont


Surprising, but it actually supports my contention that the actual fibre connection goes to copper. "My cable tech said the next team will attach the ont (optical network terminal) to the outside wall of my house, then run a six-conductor copper cable into the basement a distance of not more than 25 feet at which location..." This means he is NOT getting full fibre performance as the fibre is connected to copper wire. To make my point clear here, wire inserted BETWEEN the fibre of ANY length cuts the throughput. I guess the surprising part is that they would bother taking the fibre to the house since they ultimately connect via copper.


----------



## ericheiserman

The main advantage with fiber is distance not speed. The speed is up to the device the fiber is attached to. In fact Cisco recently released 10 gig ethernet over fiber. And yes that 25 feet of copper will support up to 1 gig. My entire network is 1 gig over copper at distances much greater than 25 feet. 

Eric :grin:


----------



## rstaples

ericheiserman said:


> The main advantage with fiber is distance not speed. The speed is up to the device the fiber is attached to. In fact Cisco recently released 10 gig ethernet over fiber. And yes that 25 feet of copper will support up to 1 gig. My entire network is 1 gig over copper at distances much greater than 25 feet.
> 
> Eric :grin:


If you had followed this thread throughout then you would note that Verizon emply a fibre advantage which, of course, it obviously has in speed AND bandwidth. However Verizon only offer this: "Today, Seidenberg noted, customers served by Verizon's fiber network can sign up for blazing-fast FiOS Internet Service, which delivers speeds up to 30 Mbps (megabits per second) downstream and 5 Mbps upstream. For video, the network will deliver 100 Mbps downstream and up to 15 Mbps upstream, making FiOS the fastest interactive network being deployed in America today."

Great, but hardly in the Gig range. :lol:

Out of curiosity, did you actually test your setup with calibrated test equipment or did you just use gear rated for 1 Gig? Our state installers tell us that they have not measured any actual 1 Gig performance on any of their few 1 Gig jobs to date!


----------



## richarda

When is the new software update coming?


----------



## kzosat

I was going to ask the same thing cause man this got way off topic, but then I saw a new thread about the update. Hopefully that one stays focused.


----------



## Allen Noland

richarda said:


> When is the new software update coming?


L214 has been delayed a couple of weeks.


----------



## Jon Spackman

Allen,
Does it have NBR or something fun like that? Seems like they would have sent it out by now. Just curious. 

Jon

PS mark's absence is kind weird here.....Is he done with the 921 now?


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## richarda

Allen Noland said:


> L214 has been delayed a couple of weeks.


Why is it being delayed? I am tired of waiting for this update that is supposed to fix all these problems.


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## JM Anthony

richarda said:


> Why is it being delayed? I am tired of waiting for this update that is supposed to fix all these problems.


Quit whining and watch TV. I'd rather wait a couple of weeks with the hope that they get it right (or more of it right) than to get it sooner and have it be more problematic.


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## richarda

JM Anthony said:


> Quit whining and watch TV. I'd rather wait a couple of weeks with the hope that they get it right (or more of it right) than to get it sooner and have it be more problematic.


First off I have been waiting for months for a fix to make the 921 work. I have asked for a replacement. Everytime I am told to wait for the update. You say watch TV, but the OTA tuner has gotten so bad that I can no longer watch any channels reliably. Recordings have been hit or miss on both the satelite and OTA.


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## JM Anthony

richarda said:


> First off I have been waiting for months for a fix to make the 921 work. I have asked for a replacement. Everytime I am told to wait for the update. You say watch TV, but the OTA tuner has gotten so bad that I can no longer watch any channels reliably. Recordings have been hit or miss on both the satelite and OTA.


So, think of the poor stiffs who got their boxes 16 months ago and that will make you feel better. I seriously have little time for consumers who bought their 921's within the last year or so. I mean it's not like it didn't have a fair amount of bad press.

I have zero problems with OTA reception. The 921 knocks the pants off my old Sammy STB.


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## ggw2000

bhawley said:


> Here in Raleigh NC TW will switch me from sat. to cable for around $80 mo.
> for 18 months, including all digital channel plus all movie packages (4) plus all
> HD packages (2) and all local HD (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX), plus SA 8300HD
> pvr. How does this compare to NY? What box did you get and what are your
> thoughts on how it works?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill


Bill, I got everything for $65 a month for a year. That is a SA 8300HD and all HD available plus prem packages (also movies on demand). As stated prior we don't have CBS and FOX available here however  . I have roadrunner and their digital phone also. Sure wish the other two local yahoos would upgrade their equip for the other two majors.. Gerry


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## Allen Noland

richarda said:


> Why is it being delayed? I am tired of waiting for this update that is supposed to fix all these problems.


It is delayed so they can attempt to fix one more bug. The decision to not release L214 didn't come until the last minute. I was told another beta would be comming so I'm guessing they found the problem and want to roll the fix out.


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## Jon Spackman

Part 2 of the ZSR fix mark mentioned a while ago?

Jon


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## Jerry G

j5races said:


> Part 2 of the ZSR fix mark mentioned a while ago?
> 
> Jon


Given the incredible delay in getting this software fix out the door, I would hope it would include all the fixes. If not, given how long we've waited for this fix, the next fix would occur about the time the next ice age occurs.


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## Allen Noland

Jerry G said:


> Given the incredible delay in getting this software fix out the door, I would hope it would include all the fixes. If not, given how long we've waited for this fix, the next fix would occur about the time the next ice age occurs.


L214 contained a VERY LARGE number of fixes even before the ZSR problem came around. I haven't had a ZSR in ages. So they aren't working on ZSR's. There is another data collection thread active. Anyone that has information about that topic should post in it.

Both Mark and I are Beta Testers for Dish on the 921. Any problems posted here that we can duplicate (and some we can't) we pass on to dish via the beta bug reporting process. However, this access comes with a price as we cannot divulge alot of the information we get from this access. But there isn't a restriction going the other way. Our only problem is wading through the Many (probably justified) rants and complaints about the problems with the 921.

I know you are all frustrated. I've had my 921 since late January 2004, so I've been on this road for a long time too. I remember not even being able to record OTA AT ALL. Please be patient. L214 will be worth the wait.


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## David_Levin

Allen Noland said:


> L214 has been delayed a couple of weeks.


This puts us a month behind the announced release data of 5/19 (which was already a very long release cycle).

The ZSR/hard drive wipe is orders of magnitude more serious then the other bugs I'm aware of.

If this is fixed, they really need to get it out the door.


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## Allen Noland

David_Levin said:


> This puts us a month behind the announced release data of 5/19 (which was already a very long release cycle).
> 
> The ZSR/hard drive wipe is orders of magnitude more serious then the other bugs I'm aware of.
> 
> If this is fixed, they really need to get it out the door.


I was very puzzled by their decision not to let L214 be released. But I'm sure I don't know the whole story.


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## UT_Texan

Allen Noland said:


> I was very puzzled by their decision not to let L214 be released. But I'm sure I don't know the whole story.


that is what is so concerning to me. I haven't had any zsr's since I first got mine in Dec. but when I got them it was an OTA issue that I fixed and they didn't wipe my recordings when I attempted to watch them.


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## Eagles

Allen Noland said:


> L214 has been delayed a couple of weeks.


Just got an e-mail from a Dish project leader for models 921/942 concerning the release of 214. It reads as follows. Doesn't sound too encouraging. 
For obvious reasons I removed the persons name and contact info from the e-mail.

My apologies sir, unfortunately at the moment we still have no new updates
on a projected "rain" date for the release of L214

Thanks so much for your patience; we hope to be reaching a resolution date
in the very near future. I'll let you know when to expect the next software
release.

Project Leader, Models 921 / 942
Specialist, Technical Product Support Group


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## boylehome

Key words, "very near future" whatever that means?


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## moderntymes

I have experienced a number of the problems mentioned, especially the stuck aspect ratio and the "jumpy" frame advance feature. I called about the problem with the frame advance and was told to wait for the next software release which was coming "soon"; this was about 3 weeks ago. One thing that especially annoys me is that I am paying $5/mo extra for DVR features that don't work. I think we--all 921 users--should be entitled to at least not paying that additional fee. I won't start on my opinion of paying a monthly fee for a feature built into the receiver that I've already paid for.

I can accurately say that I have had more problems with this 921 than my old "Web TV" PVR unit, and most of you probably know how infamously buggy that (Microsoft designed) software was.

At least I can get free OTA HD channels, even if they don't have guide data. I've cancelled my HD package for now. Hopefully this L214 release is the panacea for all the annoying bugs.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Countdown to L214 is what: 4 days from today? Anyfeedback on the latest beta release?


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## Rodney

Any definitive word if this will be the week?


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## Eagles

Rodney said:


> Any definitive word if this will be the week?


Haven't you learned by now? You will get a "DEFINATIVE" word when it is actually spooling :lol:


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