# 622 W/4:3 HD TV Question



## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

While I recall this being discussed to some degree somewhere in here, its hard to find and I don't think it covered specifically what I want to try and hone in on with my question..

I have an older 4:3 HD TV, with a 942, to get Full screen SD, I am using TV2 to another set of inputs on my set. Otherwise on TV1, HD is 16:9 in my 4:3 screen and SD fits within that 16:9 display, leaving black bars of course top & bottom and I am in Dual Mode.

I would like to know if anyone with their 622 is using say the S-Video outputs of TV1 to another set of inputs on their 4:3 set along with the component or HDMI to another set of inputs on their 4:3 set and whether you are getting full screen SD using the S-Video out of TV1 or whether it still creates a 16:9 screen and SD merely fills that portion of the screen and the 622 is in single mode?

Hope this makes some sense... thanks


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

norm, you have tried to non 16x9 output settings ? it's my understanding the 4x3 options are designed for either a tv with or without it's own 16x9 compression built in. I would think one of those two would feed your TV with full screen images unless the TV itself is the cause and you need to change an internal setting


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

As long as I'm restricting "SD" to be NTSC / 480i material (any non-HD sat channel or an analog channel from the 942), my TV does display it full screen without any Zoom on the 942 or TV. That's via HDMI or component with the 942 configured for 1080i 4:3 #2. If I'm watching an HD channel (sat or OTA) that happens to be using 4:3 material, I get bars on all 4 sides. But that is still HD, not really SD. If I want that postage stamp 4:3 HD image to fill my screen, I need to Zoom (942 or TV). What is on my 10-1 channel at the moment does have bars on all sides but if I change to the Sat local 10-0, it is full screen. If that isn't what you get now on your 942, it isn't likely that a 622 would be different (but I sure don't have one).

I do have TV2 output connected to TV1, but only use it when I need to use the TV2 remote to do something (like cancel an in progress TV2 recording). I don't need it to see "SD" material full screen on TV1 via HDMI.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

I don't have HDMI on my set. Its a 2000 Mitsubishi, picture is good, there is always room for improvement. One of these days....

I guess I need to try some of the other settings a little more thoroughly and see what I get, but It seems that unless I use a non-HD output, to a non-HD input on my TV, I wind up with 4:3 in a 16:9 window using component I/O. 

Which is why I raised the question of whether the 622 using s-video out from TV1 in single mode to an s-video input on the TV will fill the screen. And then merely by switching inputs on the TV from s-video to Component, I effectively go from SD to HD using just TV1.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

normang said:


> And then merely by switching inputs on the TV from s-video to Component, I effectively go from SD to HD using just TV1.


My TV is harder to cycle through the inputs (TV button on remote and 7 Input presses for a full cycle) than to leave the remote in Sat mode and hit the asterisk 3 times to Zoom 4:3 material in a postage stamp to full screen. Two more *'s get me back to normal.

Someone with a 622 will eventually answer.


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## LongDukDong (Nov 16, 2005)

Normang,

I have the set up you are referring to. I use S video for watching SD on one input and component for HD on another input. I did this because after I got my 622 and hooked up via component, SD channels did not fill the 4:3 screen and my son did not like it. I got Y adapters to split the RCA audio outs for TV1 to both inputs.

LDD


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

LongDukDong said:


> Normang,
> 
> I have the set up you are referring to. I use S video for watching SD on one input and component for HD on another input. I did this because after I got my 622 and hooked up via component, SD channels did not fill the 4:3 screen and my son did not like it. I got Y adapters to split the RCA audio outs for TV1 to both inputs.
> 
> LDD


Thanks for that feedback, are you in single mode or dual mode when you do this? What kind of TV out of curiousity? Sounds like what I want to do may work, though the proof will be when I try and setup the 622 in place of my 942, but It sounds like I can do it.


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## lifterguy (Dec 22, 2003)

I have a Zenith 4:3 HD set. I got my 622 yesterday, and was initially having some trouble finding a setting that worked best for my set. My TV allows me to set the picture for 16:9, 4:3, Zoom or "Set by program." I initially thought I was going to have to zoom every time I watch an SD program (to avoid the postage stamp effect), and then take it out of zoom for using the program guide or watching HD. (My set is connected to the 622 via component cables, and I did not want to have to change inputs.) I found the solution to my problem was to set the 622 HD mode to 4:3 #2, and then set my TV to 4:3. In this mode, the SD is full screen, the HD is letterbox widescreen, and the program guide is full screen with nothing missing. Putting the 622 in 4:3 #2 compresses the picture in a way that would make it unwatchable if I had my TV on the "Set by program" setting, but in the 4:3mode, it looks normal. This does not seem to match what is in the owners manual for the 622 (it says 4:3#1 is Compressed and 4:3#2 is normal) but it worked for me. Hope this helps someone else (if you understand it!):grin:


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Lifter... not sure if I have the flexibility to do that with my set. Though one of these days I'll run through the options and see if anything works differently than I expect. In the past I tried some options, and didn't get anything acceptable to view.. Perhaps I am missing some options. 

However it does appear that an option output available on the 622 may solve my issue, though it will be April sometime before I get to actually try it out..


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## LongDukDong (Nov 16, 2005)

normang said:


> Thanks for that feedback, are you in single mode or dual mode when you do this? What kind of TV out of curiousity? Sounds like what I want to do may work, though the proof will be when I try and setup the 622 in place of my 942, but It sounds like I can do it.


I use dual mode and TV2 is also a 4:3 TV. When watching the HD channels on TV2, the sides of program are cut off so the screen if full. TV1 is a 4 year old 50" Sony rear projection. Another option for you to consider is to use component cables only and set the 622 to output 480P. You will then get full screen when watching SD and 16:9 screen when watching HD. Although this is more convenient that switching inputs between SD and HD, I set my 622 to output 1080i as I wanted to get the full effect of 1080i programs and did not want it downconverted to 480P. I actually can't tell the difference between in picture quality when output is set to 1080i vs 480P. It is just a mental thing for me.

LDD


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## Sharpinv (Mar 14, 2006)

I have a 16:9 TV, the 622 is set to 16:9 and Dual mode - and I'm trying to figure out why sometimes SD broadcasts are 4:3 and sometimes 16:9.

I get it that on HD channels, a 4:3 broadcast indicates SD over a HD channel. Hopefully there will be less of that over time but an appalling amount of content on HD channels is still SD and a lot of the HD content is repeated over and over again.

But some of the stuff I record off the SD channels come in 4:3 and some in 16:9. 

I also realize that there is some SD content broadcast in widescreen without being HD, but it seems like some of my recordings are a "stretched" 16:9 SD that only looks normal if I change the TV to 4:3.

Does SD in 16:9 vs 4:3 depend on whether it was recorded on TV1 or TV2?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Sharpinv said:


> I have a 16:9 TV, the 622 is set to 16:9 and Dual mode - and I'm trying to figure out why sometimes SD broadcasts are 4:3 and sometimes 16:9.
> 
> I get it that on HD channels, a 4:3 broadcast indicates SD over a HD channel. Hopefully there will be less of that over time but an appalling amount of content on HD channels is still SD and a lot of the HD content is repeated over and over again.
> 
> ...


I don't think it makes a difference which tuner you record on, as long as the channel is broadcasting in HD.

If some shows you believe are SD but appear 16:9, then its possible they are letterboxed and being displayed that way, its hard to know.


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## Sharpinv (Mar 14, 2006)

If some shows you believe are SD but appear 16:9, then its possible they are letterboxed and being displayed that way, its hard to know.[/QUOTE]

Some are that way, but for example, sometimes my Seinfeld reruns come on 4/3 and sometimes a stretched looking 16/9 - SD in both cases. Sometimes they come off TV1 or TV2 satellite tuner, sometimes off the OTA digital broadcast - but I can't seem to find a pattern for when it is 4/3 and when it is 16/9.

Also, it appears that even if a SD broadcast on a HD channel, the storage space on the hard drive is the same as if it really were HD.

A Seinfeld SD rerun on the local OTA digital channel costs me 1/2 hour of HD space, while the same rerun on a Sat. channel only costs me 1/2 hour of SD space.

I'm still trying to learn Name Based Recording, but I don't see an option to keep recordings to just one channel - but this would be useful if what you are chasing is always in SD anyway so that you don't record it with HD storage requirements if it isn't HD content...


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Sharpinv said:


> ...
> 
> I'm still trying to learn Name Based Recording, but I don't see an option to keep recordings to just one channel - but this would be useful if what you are chasing is always in SD anyway so that you don't record it with HD storage requirements if it isn't HD content...


I just read that this is possible for the 942 when I read the 942 review. I would think it is also possible with the 622 since it's basically a 942 with MPg 4.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Sharpinv said:


> I'm still trying to learn Name Based Recording, but I don't see an option to keep recordings to just one channel - but this would be useful if what you are chasing is always in SD anyway so that you don't record it with HD storage requirements if it isn't HD content...


When you record a show that is actually in SD, it does not have the same space requirements as a show in HD. I don't think its possible because an SD program does not use the bandwidth of an HD program.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Sharpinv said:


> ...
> 
> I'm still trying to learn Name Based Recording, but I don't see an option to keep recordings to just one channel - but this would be useful if what you are chasing is always in SD anyway so that you don't record it with HD storage requirements if it isn't HD content...


Read page 51 of Part 3 of the 942 review referring to Dish Pass searches. You can limit the search to only one channel. Doesn't the 622 have this same feature?

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/942/DBSTalk%20DVR-942%20Review%20Part%203.pdf


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## stevied (Feb 1, 2005)

I just got my 622, and noticed that they did away with the SD/HD button on the remote. The tv/video on the 921 would switch between DS and HD when the remote was controlling the 921. This was very convenient for accomplishing the mode switching. For SD I could press SD/HD to switch the 921 to SD mode and switch my TV to the input that had S-Video connected, and would get full scree SD. 
Seems strange to me that this functionality was removed from the 622 remote. A button to switch output modes would be a nice addition in an upgrade.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

With the 622 both the SD and HD outputs are hot simultaniously so you don't need the SD/HD button. I considered this a flaw in the 921 and personally like having all the receviers outputs hot.


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## colossus (Sep 15, 2006)

stevied said:


> I just got my 622, and noticed that they did away with the SD/HD button on the remote. The tv/video on the 921 would switch between DS and HD when the remote was controlling the 921. This was very convenient for accomplishing the mode switching. For SD I could press SD/HD to switch the 921 to SD mode and switch my TV to the input that had S-Video connected, and would get full scree SD.
> Seems strange to me that this functionality was removed from the 622 remote. A button to switch output modes would be a nice addition in an upgrade.


Just got a 622 installed- this thing seriously needs a 'native mode' passthrough. This odd 4x3 support is lame. To think this doesn't have a feature that my Hughes HD-HTL did 2 years ago is just plain stupid.

If I knew about this problem before I had it installed, I wouldn't have gotten it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

What is odd about the 4x3 support. I have a 4x3 Sony HDTV and it goes squashed when I place my 622 into 4x3 1080i and 720p. Reason is that since it output 1080i the TV thinks it is and HD standard 16x9 HD signal and does some funky stuff with it. 

Also had it with my 921 and having native pass through would not help in this situation. Well it would for SD content but not for HD content for sure. 

What are you running into that you are finding odd and why would you think native passthrough would help in regards to HD content?

By the way.. currently on my 32" Sony, I am running my 622 in 480P because the Sony does not interpert that as a 16x9 signal.


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## colossus (Sep 15, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> What is odd about the 4x3 support. I have a 4x3 Sony HDTV and it goes squashed when I place my 622 into 4x3 1080i and 720p. Reason is that since it output 1080i the TV thinks it is and HD standard 16x9 HD signal and does some funky stuff with it.
> 
> Also had it with my 921 and having native pass through would not help in this situation. Well it would for SD content but not for HD content for sure.
> 
> ...


Good to know.

My TV is a Sony KP53HS30....The Sony cannot 'autodetect' when it's getting a 480p signal, but it will autodetect HD. So you need to enable a 480p squished mode. That, IMO, is a quirk of my TV model.

I just switched from D*. The Hughes STB I had- it was the same system as the Sony HD-300....it would output any option 'on the fly'. So, I had it set to always show HD in 1080i- the native mode for my TV- because (I think) the TV was trying to upscale it to 1080i, another TV quirk. At the same time, it would always output SD in 480i.

The 622, two years newer and far more expensive, always outputs a signal based on what it's set to. This, IMO, is a stupid quirk and obviously a design flaw.

As far as I know, there isn't even an SD/HD toggle or discrete buried in the undocumented remote codes, so I gotta waste two macros on my universal remote to address this..If you know of one, please post the info and I'll quit whining!!! 

Thanks,
Jeff


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Understand Jeff.. Legit beef.. I have been wanting Native Passthrough since I had my 811. Something that seems to be just reaching the top of priority queue is Native Resolution. Hopefully it will be seen soon.


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## colossus (Sep 15, 2006)

Here's how I am addressing this weirdness--

0) Run s-video into one input and the 1080i into another.

1) Using JP1, program two of my TV's discretes into my MX-500. In this case, Video 4 (fed SD via S-video) and Video 5 (1080i via component).

2) "Learn" 2 keys on the MX-500 for these.

3) As an aside, program 2 softkeys for this and....

4) Using the FAV keys for channels, program a macro in that has the Video 4 or Video 5 as the last 'digit' of the channel...you do not need to terminate the numbers w/an ENTER or SELECT. So long as you use the FAV for channel selection, it'll work correctly and transparently, provided you programmed the FAV keys correctly.

This is an adequate solution until native passthrough is enabled.


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