# The Netflix Subscriber Number Idiocy



## phrelin

I know it's a fictitious news controversy, but it bothers me. I see stories about how many subscribers Netflix has lost in the last two quarters. Yeah. If you look at 2020 numbers it is no surprise that in the middle of the stay-at-home pandemic they had a huge subscriber jump. Why would one not expect a drop now? I'm positively still amazed at their numbers. I'm not sure what their introduction of an ad-based subscription choice will do when introduced next year.


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## P Smith

I'll wait for statistics when 2022 ends


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## NashGuy

phrelin said:


> I'm positively still amazed at their numbers. I'm not sure what their introduction of an ad-based subscription choice will do when introduced next year.


Yes, the press and Wall Street have made a bigger deal out of Netflix's recent stumble than the numbers warrant. But I predicted not too long before the pandemic began that the coming years would see us hit "peak Netflix," at least in its oldest and most popular markets like the US, due to increasing streaming competition from traditional Hollywood players, e.g. Disney+, Hulu, HBO Max, Paramount+, Peacock, Discovery+. I think being cooped up during the pandemic delayed that day of reckoning for Netflix somewhat as everyone doubled down on streaming, especially the most popular service by far, Netflix, which was most capable of generating shared moments on social media around new hits like Tiger King.

The main point, I think, is that Wall Street had until recently valued Netflix as a growth stock, with prices based on the unrealistic assumption that it would just keep growing at the same torrid pace indefinitely. And now that that illusion has been broken, traders are grappling with how to value it as a more mature stock, i.e. how profitable will it (and the streaming industry generally) be going forward?

As for an ad-supported service, I stated years ago when Hulu introduced a more expensive ad-free plan next to their otherwise identical original plan with ads, "This is the future of television: everything on-demand (but with live events streamed live), sold with a limited amount of targeted ads at a lower price and ad-free at a higher price. Let consumers choose which plan they prefer." I've long believed that even Netflix would eventually relent to this basic economic logic. And the result for them will be more total subscribers and increased total revenue. If it's structured and priced like Hulu and other services, they'll actually make a little more on the average subscriber who takes the cheaper plan with ads than on the subscriber who pays more for ad-free.


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## juan ellitinez

Here is good reason why netflix is losing customers



https://www.wfmz.com/features/what-the-tech/what-the-tech-how-sharing-your-netflix-password-with-people-outside-your-home-could-soon/article_99462602-0856-11ed-bd94-bf0ecd4ac194.html


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## James Long

The first quarter gloom and doom stories reported Neflix lost 200k subscribers and Netflix predicted they would lose 2 million in the second quarter. The actual second quarter loss was less than a million. And the stock rebounded.









Netflix loses nearly 1 million subscribers. That's the good news


The streaming service had forecast that it would lose 2 million subscribers. The less severe loss, combined with a projection of growth in July to September, helped lift Netflix's battered stock.




www.npr.org





Netflix needs to set expectations so their stockholders are not surprised with subscriber count corrections.


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## NashGuy

juan ellitinez said:


> Here is good reason why netflix is losing customers
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wfmz.com/features/what-the-tech/what-the-tech-how-sharing-your-netflix-password-with-people-outside-your-home-could-soon/article_99462602-0856-11ed-bd94-bf0ecd4ac194.html


Yes, in addition to adding a cheaper ad-supported plan(s), I think we'll see Netflix, either this year or next, broadly institute a change to their plans to allow streaming on TV screens only in the account holder's home, with add-on fees for the ability to share the plan with another household for streaming on a TV screen there. Makes sense. All the big streamers will do this eventually, as there's too much money to be lost by password sharing otherwise. That kind of sharing will be tolerated for mobile devices (phones, tablets, laptops) but not on TVs. That's fair, IMO.

It sounds to me like Netflix is going to more or less keep their existing plans but also add one or more ad-supported plans. IMO, they should emulate what others are doing with a simple two-tier offering, plus add-on fees for additional shared households. Something in the US like:


$9.99/mo for all content with ads (For any licensed content for which they don't yet have the rights to stream ads, just stream it ad-free until they negotiate those rights.)
$15.99/mo for all content ad-free

Both plans would include 4K HDR and three simultaneous streams, but could only be streamed on TVs at the account holder's address. Up to two additional sub-account homes could be added for $2.49/mo each, giving each home location their own dedicated single stream to be used on a TV in their home or a mobile/computer device anywhere. (These sub-accounts could also be added if the main household needed more than three simultaneous streams for its family members.) And, as they're now doing in their trials, the "no-streaming-on-a-TV-outside-the-main-household" rule would only kick in after streaming on a TV outside the main household for 14 days, with an annual reset of all locations. So if you travel to the same place (e.g. vacation home) for a 2-week or shorter vacation every year (or you're constantly traveling and staying at each place no longer than 2 weeks), then there's no need to spend another $2.49 per month on a sub-account.

But as I say, it sounds like Netflix is instead going to try to really confuse consumers by increasing, rather than simplifying and decreasing, the number of plans they sell.


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## juan ellitinez

NashGuy said:


> Yes, in addition to adding a cheaper ad-supported plan(s), I think we'll see Netflix, either this year or next, broadly institute a change to their plans to allow streaming on TV screens only in the account holder's home, with add-on fees for the ability to share the plan with another household for streaming on a TV screen there. Makes sense. All the big streamers will do this eventually, as there's too much money to be lost by password sharing otherwise. That kind of sharing will be tolerated for mobile devices (phones, tablets, laptops) but not on TVs. That's fair, IMO.
> 
> It sounds to me like Netflix is going to more or less keep their existing plans but also add one or more ad-supported plans. IMO, they should emulate what others are doing with a simple two-tier offering, plus add-on fees for additional shared households. Something in the US like:
> 
> 
> $9.99/mo for all content with ads (For any licensed content for which they don't yet have the rights to stream ads, just stream it ad-free until they negotiate those rights.)
> $15.99/mo for all content ad-free
> 
> Both plans would include 4K HDR and three simultaneous streams, but could only be streamed on TVs at the account holder's address. Up to two additional sub-account homes could be added for $2.49/mo each, giving each home location their own dedicated single stream to be used on a TV in their home or a mobile/computer device anywhere. (These sub-accounts could also be added if the main household needed more than three simultaneous streams for its family members.) And, as they're now doing in their trials, the "no-streaming-on-a-TV-outside-the-main-household" rule would only kick in after streaming on a TV outside the main household for 14 days, with an annual reset of all locations. So if you travel to the same place (e.g. vacation home) for a 2-week or shorter vacation every year (or you're constantly traveling and staying at each place no longer than 2 weeks), then there's no need to spend another $2.49 per month on a sub-account.
> 
> But as I say, it sounds like Netflix is instead going to try to really confuse consumers by increasing, rather than simplifying and decreasing, the number of plans they sell.


I think the $3 sharing fee and limit on vacation usage is gonna make a lot of people mad...I think its $3 for each additional account location sharing the password...could be quite ugly...you only get 2 weeks of vacation usage and with only 1 foreign ip address... lots and lots in there to make people mad


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## NYDutch

As a full time RV'er that changes locations regularly, I wonder how Netflix would determine what my "home" address is. If they use my payment address, we are never there since it's a mail forwarding service address.


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## juan ellitinez

NYDutch said:


> As a full time RV'er that changes locations regularly, I wonder how Netflix would determine what my "home" address is. If they use my payment address, we are never there since it's a mail forwarding service address.


A lot of people use netflix to entertain children while traveling in a car on short and long trips


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## NYDutch

juan ellitinez said:


> A lot of people use netflix to entertain children while traveling in a car on short and long trips


Good point, and it will be interesting to see how they implement a "home" user policy that allows that usage.


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## James Long

Using a wireless service (Verizon, AT&T, Tmobile) as a home ISP may confuse the issue, but they could program their algorithm to permit wireless service streaming outside of the home. As long as the mobile receivers are not identifying themselves as home devices in shouldn't be too hard.

Netflix is looking for the worst of the worst when it comes to account sharing. "Families" that somehow sign in to their account from multiple places or many devices. They will need to tweek the algorithm to allow for "college student" in family or "business traveler" logging in to different devices in hotels. Perhaps they will miss actual some fraudulent account sharing by allowing use cases that should be blocked. But their target is the worst of the worst.

The plan is already limited to 4 simultaneous devices for $19.99/mo. Not exactly sharing friendly. I see the additional ~$3 fee as a way of collecting a little more money from legitimate accounts with college students and business travelers than punishing routine single family use.

If I were using the same device on multiple ISPs or all my devices on the same IP I would not worry about the proposed fee.


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## NashGuy

NYDutch said:


> As a full time RV'er that changes locations regularly, I wonder how Netflix would determine what my "home" address is. If they use my payment address, we are never there since it's a mail forwarding service address.


Two questions: 

1. Are you watching Netflix on a TV in your RV or on a phone, tablet or computer? This is only an issue if you're watching on a TV.
2. Do you stay at any one place in your TV (e.g. a particular campground) for longer than two weeks, or do you circle back to the same place within a year? If you answer no on both, this isn't an issue. But if yes, then it'll likely be a problem.

I think your "home" location is determined based on IP address and the wifi network/router/modem you connect through. And some streaming OSes (e.g. Apple TV, Android TV) have location services built in, so the Netflix app might make use of that. If you're connecting through a cellular connection, though, it may be difficult for Netflix to apply this rule. For instance, this month I'm trying out Verizon 5G Home broadband and I've noticed that YouTube TV on my Apple TV box seems to have no idea where I'm located. My parents share their YTTV account with me and I occasionally use it. Normally I would see my local stations in the app but since switching to Verizon 5G Home, I always see my parents' local stations.

Additionally, I don't know if a particular campground (which obviously isn't your permanent billing address) could be set as "home". Assuming that there's one particular place you tend to park your RV for a long period (like all summer), being able to set that location as "home" would be helpful.


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## NashGuy

juan ellitinez said:


> A lot of people use netflix to entertain children while traveling in a car on short and long trips


They're not loading their TV set into the car for the kids, though. The kids are watching on phones and tablets via cellular connections (or downloaded content), so the household sharing issue doesn't apply.


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## b4pjoe

James Long said:


> Using a wireless service (Verizon, AT&T, Tmobile) as a home ISP may confuse the issue


I am finding this out with T-Mobile. It changes your IP address when you restart the Gateway so it NOT compatible Live Streaming TV Services. They specifically mention Hulu Live TV and Sling but I know it would be a problem with DirecTV Stream since it relies on that IP address as your home network and will only let you change it 4 times per year. Not sure about Youtube TV.


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## NashGuy

James Long said:


> The plan is already limited to 4 simultaneous devices for $19.99/mo. Not exactly sharing friendly. I see the additional ~$3 fee as a way of collecting a little more money from legitimate accounts with college students and business travelers than punishing routine single family use.


If your college student is streaming Netflix on a TV in his/her dorm or apartment, then this is an issue. If they're streaming on their phone, tablet or computer screen (which I would bet is the majority of use-cases), this is not an issue.

Likewise, for business travelers who watch Netflix on the go on non-TV devices, there's no issue. If they want to watch on a TV (e.g. by connecting their Roku to the TV in their hotel room), it only becomes an issue if they stay in that hotel longer than 2 weeks or return to it within the same year (or in less than 365 days -- not sure if the reset is once per year or on a rolling basis). Also keep in mind that a growing number of hotels are offering streaming services such as Netflix as a complementary entertainment option on their in-room smart TVs, in which case the traveler doesn't even need to have a current Netflix account to access the service.

I really don't think all this is going to cause much of an issue for the vast majority of Netflix customers. As for me, when I do pick up Netflix for a month here or there, I always pay for the $20/mo tier so I can watch in 4K HDR. I have no need for 4 streams, although I do typically share my account with my mom who lives in another state. If Netflix followed my suggested plans above, I'd pay $16 for the base ad-free plan and then could pay an extra $2.50 or so to share it with her, so a total of $18.50 versus $20. Obviously, not a big difference. And the $1.50/mo lost in use-cases like mine would probably be more than offset by raising the price of the most popular plan from $15.50 to $16 (but with those folks upgraded from HD to 4K HDR), combined with the additional sharing fees that a few of those folks would need to pay (as the current $15.50 HD plan has 2 simultaneous streams and I'm sure in some cases those accounts are shared between TVs in two different households).


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## NashGuy

b4pjoe said:


> I am finding this out with T-Mobile. It changes your IP address when you restart the Gateway so it NOT compatible Live Streaming TV Services. They specifically mention Hulu Live TV and Sling but I know it would be a problem with DirecTV Stream since it relies on that IP address as your home network and will only let you change it 4 times per year. Not sure about Youtube TV.


I've had no problem using YouTube TV via Verizon 5G Home. The app seems unaware of my location and treats me as though I'm watching from the main account location (i.e. where my parents live, as they pay for the service and share it with me).


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## b4pjoe

NashGuy said:


> I think your "home" location is determined based on IP address and the wifi network/router/modem you connect through. And some streaming OSes (e.g. Apple TV, Android TV) have location services built in, so the Netflix app might make use of that. If you're connecting through a cellular connection, though, it may be difficult for Netflix to apply this rule. For instance, this month I'm trying out Verizon 5G Home broadband and I've noticed that YouTube TV on my Apple TV box seems to have no idea where I'm located. My parents share their YTTV account with me and I occasionally use it. Normally I would see my local stations in the app but since switching to Verizon 5G Home, I always see my parents' local stations.


As an example of the IP address/location services...I know Apple TV and and Fire TV uses the IP address as right now I have both Spectrum and T-Mobile 5G Home internet (deciding which to keep still). I live in South Central Illinois east of St. Louis about 75 miles. My Spectrum IP address is based out of Mt. Vernon, IL about 22 miles south of where I live. My T-Mobile IP address is out of St. Louis. Now with DirecTV it doesn't matter which service I am using my locals are all out of St. Louis. But if I am using Spectrum my locals on the ATV and Fire TV using the Paramount+, NBC, ABC, and FOX apps come out of southern Illinois (Harrisburg, IL), north west Kentucky (Paducah, KY) and southeast Missouri (Cape Girardeau, MO) and oddly the FOX local is out of Atlanta Georgia but if I am using T-Mobile with those same apps my locals on those same app/devices are out of St. Louis.


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## b4pjoe

NashGuy said:


> I've had no problem using YouTube TV via Verizon 5G Home. The app seems unaware of my location and treats me as though I'm watching from the main account location (i.e. where my parents live, as they pay for the service and share it with me).


That means they are probably using the address of the account holder. The issue for example with DirecTV Stream would be once the IP address is different than the IP address assigned as your home address you would only have 3 streams available in your home instead of the 20 you should have because it will think you are watching out of your home network which is a crappy way for DirecTV to handle your home network. If it was location based it wouldn't matter if the IP address changed as long as the location was the same as it was when your home address was assigned.


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## NashGuy

b4pjoe said:


> That means they are probably using the address of the account holder. The issue for example with DirecTV Stream would be once the IP address is different than the IP address assigned as your home address you would only have 3 streams available in your home instead of the 20 you should have because it will think you are watching out of your home network which is a crappy way for DirecTV to handle your home network. If it was location based it wouldn't matter if the IP address changed as long as the location was the same as it was when your home address was assigned.


YTTV is clearly defaulting back to the account holder address for me now that I'm on Verizon 5G Home. But before, when I was on fiber, it definitely knew where I was and would ask me upon launch if I was traveling and then show me my Nashville locals instead of my parents' Chattanooga locals.


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## b4pjoe

Seems odd it wouldn't ask you that with the Verizon 5G Home. Where is the IP address of the Verizon 5G Home out of?


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## NYDutch

NashGuy said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Are you watching Netflix on a TV in your RV or on a phone, tablet or computer? This is only an issue if you're watching on a TV.
> 2. Do you stay at any one place in your TV (e.g. a particular campground) for longer than two weeks, or do you circle back to the same place within a year? If you answer no on both, this isn't an issue. But if yes, then it'll likely be a problem.
> 
> I think your "home" location is determined based on IP address and the wifi network/router/modem you connect through. And some streaming OSes (e.g. Apple TV, Android TV) have location services built in, so the Netflix app might make use of that. If you're connecting through a cellular connection, though, it may be difficult for Netflix to apply this rule. For instance, this month I'm trying out Verizon 5G Home broadband and I've noticed that YouTube TV on my Apple TV box seems to have no idea where I'm located. My parents share their YTTV account with me and I occasionally use it. Normally I would see my local stations in the app but since switching to Verizon 5G Home, I always see my parents' local stations.
> 
> Additionally, I don't know if a particular campground (which obviously isn't your permanent billing address) could be set as "home". Assuming that there's one particular place you tend to park your RV for a long period (like all summer), being able to set that location as "home" would be helpful.


We watch Netflix on our TV's equipped with Firesticks. We mostly stay in state and national parks with a maximum stay limit of 14 days. We do sometimes stay longer than that on one of our two private RV sites in the Adirondacks and southern Vermont though. We use Verizon and AT&T cell services for our Internet connections via dedicated hotspots, and our IP addresses change frequently. Right now we're at a NY state park campground, and our AT&T IP puts us in NY City while our Verizon IP puts us in Kansas.


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## juan ellitinez

James Long said:


> Using a wireless service (Verizon, AT&T, Tmobile) as a home ISP may confuse the issue, but they could program their algorithm to permit wireless service streaming outside of the home. As long as the mobile receivers are not identifying themselves as home devices in shouldn't be too hard.
> 
> Netflix is looking for the worst of the worst when it comes to account sharing. "Families" that somehow sign in to their account from multiple places or many devices. They will need to tweek the algorithm to allow for "college student" in family or "business traveler" logging in to different devices in hotels. Perhaps they will miss actual some fraudulent account sharing by allowing use cases that should be blocked. But their target is the worst of the worst.
> 
> The plan is already limited to 4 simultaneous devices for $19.99/mo. Not exactly sharing friendly. I see the additional ~$3 fee as a way of collecting a little more money from legitimate accounts with college students and business travelers than punishing routine single family use.
> 
> If I were using the same device on multiple ISPs or all my devices on the same IP I would not worry about the proposed fee.


What happens when you mirror your phone on a tv?...with a modern tv..thats kinda easy


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## NashGuy

b4pjoe said:


> Seems odd it wouldn't ask you that with the Verizon 5G Home. Where is the IP address of the Verizon 5G Home out of?


I haven't checked but based on the name of a nearby town that seems to be popping up when I visit various sites lately (like showing local weather), I'm pretty sure that my Verizon 5G Home IP is in the greater Nashville area.


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## NashGuy

NYDutch said:


> We watch Netflix on our TV's equipped with Firesticks. We mostly stay in state and national parks with a maximum stay limit of 14 days. We do sometimes stay longer than that on one of our two private RV sites in the Adirondacks and southern Vermont though. We use Verizon and AT&T cell services for our Internet connections via dedicated hotspots, and our IP addresses change frequently. Right now we're at a NY state park campground, and our AT&T IP puts us in NY City while our Verizon IP puts us in Kansas.


Wow, sounds nice. Given your travel pattern, and also your usage of cellular hotspots, I'd be surprised if Netflix's upcoming reforms affect you.


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## NashGuy

juan ellitinez said:


> What happens when you mirror your phone on a tv?...with a modern tv..thats kinda easy


Netflix may not be able to detect and stop actual screen mirroring. But _casting_ a video stream from an Android phone to Chromecast or Android TV, or from an iPhone to an Apple TV or Roku via AirPlay, yes, they can detect and stop that.


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## NashGuy

Here's an interesting article I stumbled across today. Could Netflix's partnership with Microsoft on their upcoming advertising platform be a prelude to a full-on acquisition of Netflix by Microsoft?









Is Netflix’s best hope an acquisition by Microsoft?


If Netflix were to be acquired by Microsoft, it could give the streaming company renewed hope for its revenue growth and stock price.




qz.com





It's not a crazy idea. They have complementary businesses and Microsoft is about the only company possibly big enough to acquire Netflix (now that they've lost over half their market cap) which the DOJ might allow to make such a deal.


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## krel

NashGuy said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Are you watching Netflix on a TV in your RV or on a phone, tablet or computer? This is only an issue if you're watching on a TV.
> 2. Do you stay at any one place in your TV (e.g. a particular campground) for longer than two weeks, or do you circle back to the same place within a year? If you answer no on both, this isn't an issue. But if yes, then it'll likely be a problem.
> 
> I think your "home" location is determined based on IP address and the wifi network/router/modem you connect through. And some streaming OSes (e.g. Apple TV, Android TV) have location services built in, so the Netflix app might make use of that. If you're connecting through a cellular connection, though, it may be difficult for Netflix to apply this rule. For instance, this month I'm trying out Verizon 5G Home broadband and I've noticed that YouTube TV on my Apple TV box seems to have no idea where I'm located. My parents share their YTTV account with me and I occasionally use it. Normally I would see my local stations in the app but since switching to Verizon 5G Home, I always see my parents' local stations.
> 
> Additionally, I don't know if a particular campground (which obviously isn't your permanent billing address) could be set as "home". Assuming that there's one particular place you tend to park your RV for a long period (like all summer), being able to set that location as "home" would be helpful.


people could over ride the device and get a usb to hdmi adaptor and stream from there phones or tablets to there tv no roku apple tv chromecast devices needed wonders how they will combat that


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## juan ellitinez

NashGuy said:


> Netflix may not be able to detect and stop actual screen mirroring. But _casting_ a video stream from an Android phone to Chromecast or Android TV, or from an iPhone to an Apple TV or Roku via AirPlay, yes, they can detect and stop that.


What about to a sony or sharp tv directly


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## NYDutch

juan ellitinez said:


> What happens when you mirror your phone on a tv?...with a modern tv..thats kinda easy


Why would Netflix care if your mirroring or casting from your phone to a TV? It's still only one stream from their end...


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## BobCulp

Nrtflix CEO says that Linear TV could end by a decade. I hope he is wrong and not trying to get customers back with this possible lie..https://www.wired.com/story/netflix-subscriber-loss-end-of-tv/#:~:text=There's%20also%20good%2Dold%20linear,quarter%20earnings%20call%20this%20week.


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## harsh

juan ellitinez said:


> Here is good reason why netflix is losing customers


Don't you suppose that they've added a a number of accounts now that they're clamping down on sharing accounts?

Surely account sharing isn't the primary reason viewers subscribe to Netflix.


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## harsh

NYDutch said:


> Why would Netflix care if your mirroring or casting from your phone to a TV? It's still only one stream from their end...


Because a lot of their accounts are SD-only (especially the wireless-related accounts) and having SD streaming cast to a TV is probably pretty ugly?


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## The Oxy Kid

NashGuy said:


> Yes, in addition to adding a cheaper ad-supported plan(s), I think we'll see Netflix, either this year or next, broadly institute a change to their plans to allow streaming on TV screens only in the account holder's home, with add-on fees for the ability to share the plan with another household for streaming on a TV screen there. Makes sense. All the big streamers will do this eventually, as there's too much money to be lost by password sharing otherwise. That kind of sharing will be tolerated for mobile devices (phones, tablets, laptops) but not on TVs. That's fair, IMO.
> 
> It sounds to me like Netflix is going to more or less keep their existing plans but also add one or more ad-supported plans. IMO, they should emulate what others are doing with a simple two-tier offering, plus add-on fees for additional shared households. Something in the US like:
> 
> 
> $9.99/mo for all content with ads (For any licensed content for which they don't yet have the rights to stream ads, just stream it ad-free until they negotiate those rights.)
> $15.99/mo for all content ad-free
> 
> Both plans would include 4K HDR and three simultaneous streams, but could only be streamed on TVs at the account holder's address. Up to two additional sub-account homes could be added for $2.49/mo each, giving each home location their own dedicated single stream to be used on a TV in their home or a mobile/computer device anywhere. (These sub-accounts could also be added if the main household needed more than three simultaneous streams for its family members.) And, as they're now doing in their trials, the "no-streaming-on-a-TV-outside-the-main-household" rule would only kick in after streaming on a TV outside the main household for 14 days, with an annual reset of all locations. So if you travel to the same place (e.g. vacation home) for a 2-week or shorter vacation every year (or you're constantly traveling and staying at each place no longer than 2 weeks), then there's no need to spend another $2.49 per month on a sub-account.
> 
> But as I say, it sounds like Netflix is instead going to try to really confuse consumers by increasing, rather than simplifying and decreasing, the number of plans they sell.


I've been watching to see what Netflix decides to do. I have 2 homes, and I travel back and forth frequently. I also have a motorhome I travel in. I doubt I would retain my sub to Netflix if they decided to charge me additionally for my 3 'locations'. Some of my fellow 'travell'ers' feel the same way. We sure aren't going to put a dent in Netflix's financial picture, but....upset enough of us, and it might surprise them.
Also, I am curious as to what influence, if any, Musk's Starlink program is going to do, to the streaming industry. He is already going to release his own, sat based phone system, by the end of this year.
....Keeping an eye and ear to the market.......


NYDutch said:


> As a full time RV'er that changes locations regularly, I wonder how Netflix would determine what my "home" address is. If they use my payment address, we are never there since it's a mail forwarding service address.


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## harsh

The Oxy Kid said:


> I have 2 homes, and I travel back and forth frequently. I also have a motorhome I travel in. I doubt I would retain my sub to Netflix if they decided to charge me additionally for my 3 'locations'. Some of my fellow 'travell'ers' feel the same way.


$2.49 doesn't seem like a huge hardship. The sub-accounts aren't limited to one location, just one stream. If you required multiple streams, that's another issue.

What would be your Netflix alternative should you vote with your wallet?


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## NashGuy

juan ellitinez said:


> What about to a sony or sharp tv directly


Is that TV running the Android TV operating system and using the Chromecast casting protocol to receive the content stream from your phone/tablet/computer? (I know that both Sony and Sharp use Android TV on at least certain of their models.) If so, then yeah, Netflix would likely be aware of casting to the TV in that instance.

Now, if you're using some other mirroring/casting protocol, like Miracast, then I don't know. That might be a loophole around Netflix's plans to only allow TV viewing in the primary household.


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## NashGuy

NYDutch said:


> Why would Netflix care if your mirroring or casting from your phone to a TV? It's still only one stream from their end...


Because Netflix is testing out a rule that allows their service to be viewed on TV screens only at the subscriber's main address/home -- if you share your account with a friend, they'll be forced to watch on a phone/tablet/computer, can't watch on a TV at their home.


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## juan ellitinez

harsh said:


> Don't you suppose that they've added a a number of accounts now that they're clamping down on sharing accounts?
> 
> Surely account sharing isn't the primary reason viewers subscribe to Netflix.


It was encouraged..thats the problem.
Cheap entertainment..
Other streaming services are alot better..netflix is turning off one of its advantages


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## James Long

The Netflix price steps (1 SD stream / 2 HD streams / 4 4K streams) would lead people with one or two devices to have extra streams if they wanted any device to have 4K. That builds an "entitlement" to share (I pay for four, I will use four) and you are right that Netflix started the problem. Perhaps providing 4K at all levels so people could subscribe to one or two 4K streams would help break the entitlement.


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## Jon W

b4pjoe said:


> I am finding this out with T-Mobile. It changes your IP address when you restart the Gateway so it NOT compatible Live Streaming TV Services. They specifically mention Hulu Live TV and Sling but I know it would be a problem with DirecTV Stream since it relies on that IP address as your home network and will only let you change it 4 times per year. Not sure about Youtube TV.


I installed a dual timer plug that reboots my T-Mobile gateway and router at 3am every night and I have had no issues connecting to YouTubeTV.


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## b4pjoe

Jon W said:


> I installed a dual timer plug that reboots my T-Mobile gateway and router at 3am every night and I have had no issues connecting to YouTubeTV.


It isn't an issue with connecting to Live TV services. It is an issue if your Live TV provider ties a specific IP address to your service. Rebooting the T-Mobile Gateway will give you a different IP address. I think Youtube TV bases your subscription to your account address instead of the IP. With a service like DirecTV Stream you are only allowed to change your home IP 4 times a year and when it sees a different IP address it decides you are out of your home network and you will only be allowed 3 streams instead of 20 for in home streams. If you only ever watch 3 or fewer streams with DTV Stream it won't be a problem. Not sure what the situation is with Hulu Live TV but T-Mobile says their service isn't compatible with it so it must be something to do with the IP address issue.


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## dhetzel

NashGuy said:


> Because Netflix is testing out a rule that allows their service to be viewed on TV screens only at the subscriber's main address/home -- if you share your account with a friend, they'll be forced to watch on a phone/tablet/computer, can't watch on a TV at their home.


Not sharing right now, but if we were, it would be on a "computer", our primary "TV" is in a fact a TV, but the video for it is coming from a little 4" box running windows 10 over an HDMI cable. All of our Amazon, Netflix, Disney+ etc accounts are on that computer, it just uses the TV as the monitor...


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## NYDutch

harsh said:


> Because a lot of their accounts are SD-only (especially the wireless-related accounts) and having SD streaming cast to a TV is probably pretty ugly?


How would that be Netflix's concern? They're not losing a subscriber due to it.


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## NYDutch

NashGuy said:


> Because Netflix is testing out a rule that allows their service to be viewed on TV screens only at the subscriber's main address/home -- if you share your account with a friend, they'll be forced to watch on a phone/tablet/computer, can't watch on a TV at their home.


When I cast from my phone or laptop to the TV, both devices have to be using the same local network.


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## goony

Jon W said:


> I installed a dual timer plug that reboots my T-Mobile gateway and router at 3am every night and I have had no issues connecting to YouTubeTV.


I _never_ reboot my T-Mobile Home Internet gateway... and I have no issues connecting to YouTube TV. I get my locals just fine (Central Ohio), but my Roku displays "suggested stuff" as if I live in Michigan.

TMHI uses CG-NAT so it's a really bad idea for streaming companies to attempt to use an IP address to figure out physical location.


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## NashGuy

NashGuy said:


> YTTV is clearly defaulting back to the account holder address for me now that I'm on Verizon 5G Home. But before, when I was on fiber, it definitely knew where I was and would ask me upon launch if I was traveling and then show me my Nashville locals instead of my parents' Chattanooga locals.


So a few days after posting this, while still using Verizon 5G Home, YTTV switched over and began showing my Nashville locals in the live channel guide. So IDK what's going on. Around the same time, I also noticed linear channels in certain apps, like Pluto TV, Tubi, and Peacock, refusing to play, even though live channels/streams in other apps, like YTTV and YouTube, worked fine. And that had not been the case earlier in the month while on Verizon 5G Home. Oddities abound.


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## krel

i would never pay for netflix most of whats on there is trash anyways


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## harsh

krel said:


> i would never pay for netflix most of whats on there is trash anyways


There's surely enough good exclusive content to warrant subscribing for a month or two once in a while. Same with many of the other streaming services (especially Disney+).


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## krel

harsh said:


> There's surely enough good exclusive content to warrant subscribing for a month or two once in a while. Same with many of the other streaming services (especially Disney+).


id'e only watch the flash via netflix it's cheaper to buy the box set  . i could roll with disney plus i think and there's another one i like to can't think of it now though.


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## scooper

Jon W said:


> I installed a dual timer plug that reboots my T-Mobile gateway and router at 3am every night and I have had no issues connecting to YouTubeTV.


If your provider is using DHCP (and they most likely are) - unless your GW is off longer than the renew cycle, you're likely to get the same address back. (assuming your MAC address isn't changing).


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