# DISH Network and Voom Reach Settlement



## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

DISH Network and Voom Reach Settlement

ENGLEWOOD, CO -- (Marketwire) -- 10/21/12 -- DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH)

Terms call for DISH to pay $700 million in cash; DISH to receive certain wireless spectrum licenses 
DISH enters multi-year agreement to carry AMC, IFC, WE tv, Sundance Channel and Fuse; AMC channel broadcast resumes Sunday, October 21 
DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) announced today that its subsidiary, DISH Network L.L.C., has settled all of its pending litigation with Voom HD Holdings LLC.

Terms of the settlement call for DISH Network to pay $700 million in cash. As part of the agreement, DISH will receive 500 MHz of wireless multichannel video distribution and data service ("MVDDS") spectrum licenses that cover a population of 150 million in 45 DMAs including New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco and Philadelphia.

As part of a separate, multi-year agreement, DISH will resume broadcast of the AMC channel Sunday, October 21. The AMC channel will be carried on DISH channel 131.

"We are glad to have settled the case and reestablished our long-term relationships with AMC Networks and Cablevision," said Dave Shull, senior vice president of Programming at DISH. "This multi-year deal delivers a fair value for both parties and includes digital expansion opportunities for AMC Networks' programming."

Other AMC Networks programming, including Sundance Channel, WE tv and IFC, will return to DISH Nov. 1. The Madison Square Garden Company's music-oriented Fuse channel will begin broadcast Nov. 1, as well.

About DISH
DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.061 million satellite TV customers, as of June 30, 2012, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com

Source: DISH Network


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Darned! Now I've got to decide if I think I need to spend the $15 a month to jump back up to AT200. Problems, problems.

Dish, you might be wise to offer a month free to sucker me in....


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

tsmacro said:


> As part of the agreement, DISH will receive 500 MHz of wireless multichannel video distribution and data service ("MVDDS") spectrum licenses that cover a population of 150 million in 45 DMAs including New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco and Philadelphia.


Charlie is going to have a ton of spectrum with this addition. Wonder what he'll do with it if the FCC doesn't give him what he wants?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> DISH will resume broadcast of the AMC channel Sunday, October 21. The AMC channel will be carried on DISH channel 131.


AXS is still there for the moment which is a far, far, far better channel than AMC could ever hope to be. Wonder where it will go.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"RAD" said:


> Charlie is going to have a ton of spectrum with this addition. Wonder what he'll do with it if the FCC doesn't give him what he wants?


Well, the plan was to ax the Blockbuster streaming service because they couldn't get the spectrum. Now they have it. So maybe that is back on the table.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> AXS is still there for the moment which is a far, far, far better channel than AMC could ever hope to be. Wonder where it will go.


AXS is also on 362 (for the Blockbuster package). It should remain there.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

So, is AMC back on Dish today Oct 21st or going to be back Nov 1st? Maybe AMC is back Oct 21st today and all the other channels back Nov 1st? Does anyone know if AMC will be back in HD?


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## crabtrp (Sep 23, 2006)

lets get this thing back on before the walking dead tonight.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

crabtrp said:


> lets get this thing back on before the walking dead tonight.


Heres hoping, streaming on a subpar net connection via illegal sites is kinda lame xD


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Huh...this settlement leak is...I mean was as much of a mistake as the Google report being prematurely released...by mistake....Google tanked 9%.
Looks like a AMC Dish deal....now if I can get the 9% back. :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

donm said:


> So, is AMC back on Dish today Oct 21st or going to be back Nov 1st? Maybe AMC is back Oct 21st today and all the other channels back Nov 1st? Does anyone know if AMC will be back in HD?


As posted above:
"DISH will resume broadcast of the AMC channel Sunday, October 21. The AMC channel will be carried on DISH channel 131."

"Other AMC Networks programming, including Sundance Channel, WE tv and IFC, will return to DISH Nov. 1. The Madison Square Garden Company's music-oriented Fuse channel will begin broadcast Nov. 1, as well."

AMC today, the rest on November 1st.



crabtrp said:


> lets get this thing back on before the walking dead tonight.


The first episode of this season's TWD will air at 8pm ET right before the second episode. So there is probably a scramble at the uplink center to get the feed up, nice and public.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

tsmacro said:


> DISH Network and Voom Reach Settlement
> 
> ENGLEWOOD, CO -- (Marketwire) -- 10/21/12 -- DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH)
> 
> ...


I'm suprizes we got FUSE back!


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

This is great news. I have been trying to decide if I should switch to Dish from Directv for the Pac 12 network but my favorite show is TWD. I will be ordering Dish as soon as I hear that AMC is in HD and I'm pretty sure it will be.


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## kick4fun (Aug 9, 2006)

donm said:


> This is great news. I have been trying to decide if I should switch to Dish from Directv for the Pac 12 network but my favorite show is TWD. I will be ordering Dish as soon as I hear that AMC is in HD and I'm pretty sure it will be.


Right now Channel 131 is in HD, so that is good news! They had AMC in HD before Directv did, so I'm pretty sure that's a done deal.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

kick4fun said:


> Right now Channel 131 is in HD, so that is good news! They had AMC in HD before Directv did, so I'm pretty sure that's a done deal.


 But AXS is there.... 
Update, sources say this day PM.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

Any word on what time AMC will be back?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm suprizes we got FUSE back!


That one has been off for a while. The only other related networks, unmentioned in this press release, is MSG and MSG+. Adding those would lead to a channel shuffle as DISH gave away their channel numbers to PAC12 and the "collapsible channel" feature.

No change in the uplink activity yet for AMC's return ... still watching the skies.



356B said:


> But AXS is there....


AXS is on channel 362 in HD and SD. No lost content when DISH, as announced in their press release, puts AMC on channel 131.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

James Long said:


> That one has been off for a while. The only other related networks, unmentioned in this press release, is MSG and MSG+. Adding those would lead to a channel shuffle as DISH gave away their channel numbers to PAC12 and the "collapsible channel" feature.
> 
> No change in the uplink activity yet for AMC's return ... still watching the skies.


::hurah: Hopefully before TWD is on. I'll try to get E1 recorded also. Ya think they will rerun the new season of HOW?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> That one has been off for a while. The only other related networks, unmentioned in this press release, is MSG and MSG+. Adding those would lead to a channel shuffle as DISH gave away their channel numbers to PAC12 and the "collapsible channel" feature.
> 
> No change in the uplink activity yet for AMC's return ... still watching the skies.
> 
> AXS is on channel 362 in HD and SD. No lost content when DISH, as announced in their press release, puts AMC on channel 131.


I'm hearing hookup will be this day PM.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

James Long said:


> That one has been off for a while. The only other related networks, unmentioned in this press release, is MSG and MSG+. Adding those would lead to a channel shuffle as DISH gave away their channel numbers to PAC12 and the "collapsible channel" feature.
> 
> No change in the uplink activity yet for AMC's return ... still watching the skies.
> 
> AXS is on channel 362 in HD and SD. No lost content when DISH, as announced in their press release, puts AMC on channel 131.


No uplink activity yet on AMC.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

dakeeney said:


> ::hurah: Hopefully before TWD is on. I'll try to get E1 recorded also. Ya think they will rerun the new season of HOW?


I pretty sure they will at least have a marathon of HoW before the next season. I would also think sometime after TWD or in the break between the first and second half of TWD they might rerun HoW.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

356B said:


> But AXS is there....
> Update, sources say this day PM.


I dont think the guide will update in time, so just check the channel here and there to see if the channel switches from AXS to AMC.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dakeeney said:


> No uplink activity yet on AMC.


I'll post it as soon as I see it ... the "every four hour" update came through at 4pm so I know my scanner is still working.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Bad Company concert just ending on AXS 131

AMC will be an extremely serious downgrade from AXS.

Not sure if I'll get 362 or not. Gotta check.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> Bad Company concert just ending on AXS 131
> 
> AMC will be an extremely serious downgrade from AXS.
> 
> Not sure if I'll get 362 or not. Gotta check.


I don't think I have AXS on Directv but I might. What is AXS?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

donm said:


> I don't think I have AXS on Directv but I might. What is AXS?


Formerly HDNET, has some excellent concert series in HD and some pretty great HD original programing.

If Dish moves this back to the [email protected] I will definitely miss it lol


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

donm said:


> I pretty sure they will at least have a marathon of HoW before the next season. I would also think sometime after TWD or in the break between the first and second half of TWD they might rerun HoW.


 Hey I see you're a "Quacker Backer". I grew up and went thru HS in The Dalles. Been to Seaside many times and managed to wade in the cold water for a few minutes in my younger years.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

Inkosaurus said:


> Formerly HDNET, has some excellent concert series in HD and some pretty great HD original programing.
> 
> If Dish moves this back to the [email protected] I will definitely miss it lol


Thanks and I have HDNET and didn't even realize it has changed name. Shows you how much I watch the channel.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

donm said:


> I don't think I have AXS on Directv but I might. What is AXS?


some junk that I son't watch.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

dakeeney said:


> Hey I see you're a "Quacker Backer". I grew up and went thru HS in The Dalles. Been to Seaside many times and managed to wade in the cold water for a few minutes in my younger years.


Yeah, I'm a big Ducks fan. That is the reason I will be switching to Dish from Directv just to get the Pac 12 Network. I'm so happy Dish and AMC have settled.


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## chiodo (Aug 13, 2008)

I bet AMC will be uplinked to Dish just before 9pm eastern time, just in time for TWD.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

donm said:


> Yeah, I'm a big Ducks fan. That is the reason I will be switching to Dish from Directv just to get the Pac 12 Network. I'm so happy Dish and AMC have settled.


I'm a Clemson fan but I still pull for the Ducks. My dad was a Beaver fan.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

chiodo said:


> I bet AMC will be uplinked to Dish just before 9pm eastern time, just in time for TWD.


It would be nice for Dish if they did uplink at 8:00PM so you could watch the first episode and get caught up if you didn't watch it already.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

donm said:


> I don't think I have AXS on Directv but I might. What is AXS?


An HDNET owned channel, music today....:lol:


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

donm said:


> It would be nice for Dish if they did uplink at 8:00PM so you could watch the first episode and get caught up if you didn't watch it already.


Well here's hoping that AMC returns before TWD. I've got to get off here a get going. Will check back later.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

dakeeney said:


> I'm a Clemson fan but I still pull for the Ducks. My dad was a Beaver fan.


My whole family are Duck fans and I meet my wife at the UO and my son graduated from the UO. It looks like this years civil war will be good with the Beavers playing so good.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

donm said:


> I don't think I have AXS on Directv but I might. What is AXS?


VH1 Classics on steroids when they're running concerts. Great stuff you can't find anywhere else.

They run a lot of fights and other junk too though.

Hmmmm, if I lose it, I wonder if I can whine and moan and get a Roku or some monthly credits?


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> VH1 Classics on steroids when they're running concerts. Great stuff you can't find anywhere else.
> 
> They run a lot of fights and other junk too though.
> 
> Hmmmm, if I lose it, I wonder if I can whine and moan and get a Roku or some monthly credits?


AXS is on [email protected] Dish will charge you for the package, not give you a credit.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

garys said:


> AXS is on [email protected] Dish will charge you for the package, not give you a credit.


But, but, but, I've been getting it free all this time so surely Dish owes me some kind of compensation for any loss.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

AXS was part of the compensation for not having AMC. It is a shame one cannot choose whether to have AMC or AXS. (Gotta throw in the a la carte argument ... it is the Godwin of any carriage discussion. )


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> But, but, but, I've been getting it free all this time so surely Dish owes me some kind of compensation for any loss.


Dish has given people this channel before as a replacement for loss of another channel in the past, once the initial channel would come back this one would go back to it's current package. It is on Dish if you want to pay for it, Dish will probably not compensate you on this one.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

26 changes seen 10/21/12 at 4:51pm ET (v05)

*New Uplinks / Mappings - Channels Available*
131 AMC American Movie Classics added to 119° TP 8 (SD Instant Order Preview) *AVAILABLE*
131 AMC American Movie Classics added to 72.7° TP 9 (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) *AVAILABLE* EPG linked to 119° TP 8 Ch 131
9417 AMC (131 HD) American Movie Classics added to 129° TP 31 (HD Preview) *AVAILABLE*
9417 AMC (131 HD) American Movie Classics added to 72.7° TP 32 (HD Preview) *AVAILABLE*

*Channels Moved*
9609 HDNMV HD Net Movies moved from 119° TP 8 to 110° TP 21 (SD)
9609 HDNMV HD Net Movies moved from 72.7° TP 9 to 61.5° TP 2 (SD MPEG4)
9610 HDNMV HD Net Movies moved from 129° TP 31 to 119° TP 7 (HD)
9610 HDNMV HD Net Movies moved from TP 32 to TP 24 at 72.7° (HD)

*Channels Renamed*
4695 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (119° TP 8 SD Hidden)
4695 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
4696 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (119° 3sA27 (Hawaii) HD Hidden)
4696 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (119° 5sA24 (Alaska) HD Hidden)
4696 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (129° TP 31 HD Hidden)
4696 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (72.7° TP 32 HD Hidden)
4130 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (129° TP 31 HD Hidden)
4130 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (72.7° TP 32 HD Hidden)
4351 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (119° 3sA27 (Hawaii) HD Hidden)
4351 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (119° 5sA24 (Alaska) HD Hidden)
5406 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (129° TP 31 HD Hidden)
5406 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (72.7° TP 32 HD Hidden)
5499 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (119° 3sA27 (Hawaii) HD Hidden)
5499 HDNMV HD Net Movies renamed AMC American Movie Classics (131 HD) (119° 5sA24 (Alaska) HD Hidden)

*Uplinks Removed*
131 AXS AXS TV removed from 110° TP 2 (SD Preview)
131 AXS AXS TV removed from 72.7° TP 14 (SD MPEG4 Preview)
5024 AXS (131 HD) AXS TV removed from 119° TP 7 (HD Preview)
5024 AXS (131 HD) AXS TV removed from 72.7° TP 3 (HD Preview)

8719 Channels


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

AXS just went away from 131 (mid-song, I might add). Some kind of help/promo screen.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It will take a couple of minutes for the receivers to catch up with the change.
I now have the correct video on channel 131 HD (Eastern Arc).


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## otnipj3s (Jul 20, 2008)

Its back!!!!


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## lamp525 (Nov 3, 2006)

Bangor Maine has AMC back


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Seeing a Hopper commercial right now on 131.


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## crabtrp (Sep 23, 2006)

yay


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:
 

> The first episode of this season's TWD will air at 8pm ET right before the second episode. So there is probably a scramble at the uplink center to get the feed up, nice and public.


I have to think that is the only reason to put AMC back on tonight... for the Walking Dead... otherwise, there's no reason to try and get AMC back same-day as the deal.

Also... AMC was the only one of those channels that Dish had in HD before, right? so the uplink is really already there and probably only needs to be redirected and checked out quickly for relaunch.

The "others" not coming until November 1st... even though we had them all in SD before... kind of makes me think that maybe they are going to pick up HD feeds. Otherwise, why would they need 11 days to get the other SD channels back in their slots?

Seems like the mad scramble would be AMC today... then the others by this Wednesday... but that 11 days would be about right IF they are also picking up the HD feeds they didn't previously have for IFC, WeTV, Sundance, etc... and needed time to test those feeds.

At least that what I'm hoping is the case.

Oh.. and while I was typing this, I saw an update and AXS changed to AMC and "No Info"... so I guess they are working at it as we all speak. The trick for tonight and TWD on AMC is... will there be reliable EPG to set timers.

Hopper and 922 customers can't force EPG updates like other Dish receivers... If the Hopper works like the 922, you might can put it into standby for a bit and it will churn... but then you can't watch TV while that is happening... so tonight might be fun if you wanted to DVR rather than watch live.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You are nine minutes behind, Stewart ... try to keep up. 

I don't believe AMC HD was up in test anywhere on the system ... so this was more than a numbering change. Many channels today are received in HD and converted to SD for the SD versions ... so it is possible that WE, IFC and Sundance were already received by DISH in HD before the channels were dropped.

I expect all to come in HD ... including FUSE, which has been off since 2011. We'll know more over the next 10 days.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

It's got to be killing some people that AMC is back. Some people took pleasure in others not having it just because they don't watch it. Putting it down putting people down that watch TWD. 

Good for AMC and Dish getting this done finally! Ha ha to the haters who said it wouldn't happen!


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## Steeloc15 (Oct 2, 2009)

A lot of the time when these deals go through we see the channel move packages. The press release doesn't say anything about it, but does anyone know if AMC will be moving down to AT120+?

(I think it was only AT200 and above before... right?)


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## steveT (Jul 12, 2002)

I hope people here followed the court case. After the judge assigned a data forensics investigator to pull deleted emails from Dish corporate hard drives (a move Dish fought and lost), they proved that Cablevision had been correct all along, and that they had spent the money required by their contract with Dish. Emails between Ergen and his negotiator proved this.

So Walking Dead premieres to historic numbers last Sunday, the emails come out in court during the week, and Dish settled right before Ergen was scheduled to take the witness stand tomorrow morning, where he would have been massively humiliated.

Given all the leverage they now had, I'm surprised Cablevision settled for "only" $700M. Given what all the analysts covering the case were saying, they might have actually gotten the full $2.4B. 

And given that AMC was restored to the lineup within hours of the settlement announcement, I hope that says something to all the people here who argued that dumping AMC had nothing to do with the lawsuit.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Steeloc15 said:


> A lot of the time when these deals go through we see the channel move packages. The press release doesn't say anything about it, but does anyone know if AMC will be moving down to AT120+?
> 
> (I think it was only AT200 and above before... right?)


Right now it is in Free Preview ... available to all subscribers.



steveT said:


> Given all the leverage they now had, I'm surprised Cablevision settled for "only" $700M. Given what all the analysts covering the case were saying, they might have actually gotten the full $2.4B.


Cablevision is also giving DISH wireless licenses that are worth money. With the value of those licenses included the settlement gets closer to a wash.



> And given that AMC was restored to the lineup within hours of the settlement announcement, I hope that says something to all the people here who argued that dumping AMC had nothing to do with the lawsuit.


DISH cannot carry channels without the provider's permission. With the lawsuit unsettled there was no way AMC would grant their permission. Perhaps they finally came up with a price DISH could not refuse?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

As usual, we'll never know who blinked harder, but it sure looks like AMC did.


Somehow, I got kicked over to 101 which is why i was seeing the promo/help screen.

All sorted out now, AMC 131 manually deleted from my channel list again so I don't have to be bothered with it.


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## Nightmare (Nov 3, 2002)

Bitter Party of One.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

is AMC channel 131 in HD?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

donm said:


> is AMC channel 131 in HD?


Yes.

Call now, CSRs are standing by.


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## donm (Aug 19, 2003)

James Long said:


> Yes.
> 
> Call now, CSRs are standing by.


Thanks I will!


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## SDWC (Dec 14, 2005)

Great news. Anyone who had any timers set for the former AXS ch. 131 just a reminder to check them.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

"Nightmare" said:


> Bitter Party of One.


Well when you take away some peoples sole purpose for posting in a thread it hurts.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveT 
Given all the leverage they now had, I'm surprised Cablevision settled for "only" $700M. Given what all the analysts covering the case were saying, they might have actually gotten the full $2.4B.

A bird in hand is worth...


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## Nightmare (Nov 3, 2002)

ehilbert1 said:


> Well when you take away some peoples sole purpose for posting in a thread it hurts.


LOL

I'd love to see the "Actual" program list of what he watches :grin:


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Looks like AMC might have been hurting for ad revenue:



> Dish accounted for 13 percent of AMC's subscriber base, AMC said. The number of subscribers can determine what advertisers and broadcasters pay the cable network company


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...tle-2-4-billion-suit-over-hd-contract-1-.html


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## russ9 (Jan 28, 2004)

I feel deader already!


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

I never watch AMC, but I'm glad it's back anyway. I firmly believe that the more customers Dish has, the better that is for all Dish customers.


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## APB101 (Sep 1, 2010)

Congratulations to the subscribers of Dish Network for finally seeing the return of AMC to the lineup!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The weird part here?

Not that Rainbow settled for "only" $700 million... and certainly not the return of the current AMC channels.

The weird part is... the wireless licenses given TO Dish.

The court case was certainly tilting big time towards Rainbow... I'm sure AMC wanted the settlement to keep their ad revenue and to get their subscriber revenue back... and Rainbow surely wanted some money as well...

But... how often do you see a settlement in a case that was clearly tilting more one way than the other... and not only does Dish get to save some face and get channels back... but they also literally profit somehow from getting these licenses?

A $700 million + longterm AMC contract is a clear win for Rainbow/AMC... and a bird in the hand applies vs waiting for a court verdict that may yield more money but most certainly would mean no carriage of channels on Dish.

But... that Cablevision had to still give something back to Dish?

Oh, and don't forget... those Voom channels weren't carried by anyone else... so Dish didn't lose customers who went elsewhere to see them... and Dish saved that money for each year since breaking the contract... so how much savings was that? And applying that against the $700 million, did this really end up costing Dish anything on the bottom line considering what they got in return?

Honestly... even with the short-term angst... you kind of have to look at this as a HUGE win for Dish.

It's like being in a gunfight... and you're out of bullets... and the other guy can shoot you and take your stuff... but somehow you convince him NOT to shoot you, and instead give YOU some of HIS stuff on top of it.

Weird.

FYI... the "put it back in standby trick" worked for one of my receivers to get updated EPG data so I could set timers tonight for Walking Dead, Talking Dead, and Comic Book Men.

All I missed (with the Walking Dead repeat tonight) would be last week's Talking Dead + last week's Comic Book Men... so all-in-all, a good end to a weekend here and I'll have a bunch of TV to watch later tonight after football!


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^^ Yeah, where did the wireless stuff come from? How did that even get into the mix? That's one of the first things I noticed in the OP.

Almost sounds like Dish got the sweeter deal.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

AXS on 362. AMC back up.

Talked yesterday to a high end corporate lawyer from the global company I used to be a director at. He was the guy who prepped me when I had to testify at a $1.6 Billion suit (that our arrogant CEO refused to admit we were wrong on.) He's been following this suit, and he is also a bit surprised that they didn't hold out for more from Dish. He said it was very, very clear that Dish was going to lose, and lose in a way that showed that they lied, they destroyed evidence, and more, and he felt that they would end up paying the full amount.

His take is that this gives the Voom folks their money quickly, no appeals. He also said don't discount things in the settlement that we may not see. Without seeing actual cash value of the airway licenses, he couldn't comment on that (he's digging in to figure that piece out.)

Bottom line, he said: When court is cut off short as soon as damning evidence is produced, you know who is dictating the terms at the table.


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## StringFellow (Jan 6, 2012)

Guide on my Hopper has info up until 9pm. I can record the 8pm showing of TWD. Any tips on how to handle DVRing the 9pm showing since there is no guide data? I am sure it will be rerun at some point but I would like to DVR it tonight.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

StringFellow said:


> Any tips on how to handle DVRing the 9pm showing since there is no guide data?


Manual timer start/stop.

Or can't you do that on a 'Roo box?


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## StringFellow (Jan 6, 2012)

"SayWhat?" said:


> Manual timer start/stop.
> 
> Or can't you do that on a 'Roo box?


Can't do that on a Hopper as far as I am aware??


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

James Long said:


> The only other related networks, unmentioned in this press release, is MSG and MSG+


I'm really surprised MSG wasn't included in the settlement deal.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

StringFellow said:


> Guide on my Hopper has info up until 9pm. I can record the 8pm showing of TWD. Any tips on how to handle DVRing the 9pm showing since there is no guide data? I am sure it will be rerun at some point but I would like to DVR it tonight.


For the VIP receivers a 'check switch' will force another download of the guide. Don't know if that works for the Hopper but it might be worth a try.


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## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Hot Damn, Billy Bob!!!!  No more threats from me! 

Scott


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I also was wondering how much Dish didn't pay by not carrying Voom against the 620 million paid now.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

StringFellow said:


> Guide on my Hopper has info up until 9pm. I can record the 8pm showing of TWD. Any tips on how to handle DVRing the 9pm showing since there is no guide data? I am sure it will be rerun at some point but I would like to DVR it tonight.


Can you just add the 8pm showing and extend the end by 1 hour?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

klang said:


> For the VIP receivers a 'check switch' will force another download of the guide. Don't know if that works for the Hopper but it might be worth a try.


As I alluded to earlier... 922 receivers don't allow you to force an EPG update... and since the Hopper is built-off the same firmware, I can only assume the same to be true.

I'm also assuming the put-the-receiver-in-standby-for-a-bit trick will work the same for a Hopper as it does for a 922.

Basically you have to wake the receiver and make sure you're seeing the new channel in the EPG... then put the receiver back in standby.

I usually go it for 30 minutes at least... and as long as nothing is being recorded while in standby, that seems to allow the receiver to do some longer-term EPG updates for new uplinks like this.

It works for me anyway.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I am getting AMC and getting AXS and only have AT250. AXS/HDNET was part of AT250 and the BB package before.


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## clotter (Apr 12, 2008)

sregener said:


> I never watch AMC, but I'm glad it's back anyway. I firmly believe that the more customers Dish has, the better that is for all Dish customers.


Absolutely awesome news! And a great (unselfish) post!!


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> ^^ Yeah, where did the wireless stuff come from? How did that even get into the mix? That's one of the first things I noticed in the OP.
> 
> Almost sounds like Dish got the sweeter deal.


Dish wanted streaming/wireless licenses to go along with the Blockbuster acquisition. Hopefully the licenses can put those plans back in place.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

garys said:


> Can you just add the 8pm showing and extend the end by 1 hour?


That should work ... or one could wait a few more minutes until 9pm is in the guide and set one then. (The guide will show present and next program on the channel until the longer guide downloads.)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jsk said:


> I am getting AMC and getting AXS and only have AT250. AXS/HDNET was part of AT250 and the BB package before.


Both channels are in "free preview" ... all subscribers should be receiving both.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I suppose AMC will revert back to AT200 and above. But it would be a nice gain for AMC (and me) if it stayed at the AT120 level.:sure:

EDIT: Well the following is on the Dish web site, so I guess it will revert back to its normal tiers:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That is an interesting aspect... AMC had been asking for more money... perhaps part of the settlement was better placement in a lower tier... which would mean more money to AMC without necessarily increasing the cost per channel.

We'll have to wait and see what happens after the free preview ends to be certain.

Now we can cross our fingers and see if Dish and Disney can play nice "soon"!


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

"James Long" said:


> AXS is also on 362 (for the Blockbuster package). It should remain there.


AXS (SD and HD) on channel 362 is in AT120 and above as well as Dish Latino Dos and above.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mojo Jojo said:


> James Long said:
> 
> 
> > AXS is also on 362 (for the Blockbuster package). It should remain there.
> ...


I was speaking of channel location. The channel has been in free preview most of the year.
I hope the channel stays in 120+.


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## jagowar (Jan 8, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> That is an interesting aspect... AMC had been asking for more money... perhaps part of the settlement was better placement in a lower tier... which would mean more money to AMC without necessarily increasing the cost per channel.
> 
> We'll have to wait and see what happens after the free preview ends to be certain.
> 
> Now we can cross our fingers and see if Dish and Disney can play nice "soon"!


I hope it does as well.... I could see it from a ratings perspective too. Based on their original programming choices recently AMC seems to want their channel to go more mainstream. Keeping it on the higher priced packages is doing nothing but limiting those ratings.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Dear Dennis,
DISH is pleased to announce that we have reached a multi-year agreement with AMC Networks, which has restored AMC on channel 131.
All customers will be able to enjoy AMC in free preview on channel 131, and *for fans of The Walking Dead, the first episode of the season will be available on-demand for a limited time*. Please check your channel guide for a complete listing.*
We appreciate your patience during this time and thank you for being a valued DISH customer.
Sincerely,
DISH
*Access On-Demand by selecting the Menu button on your DISH remote. Must be connected to broadband internet.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

FYI...

For anyone interested in last week's Comic Book Men episode that we missed while Dish didn't have AMC... it comes on this Tuesday morning at 9:00am EDT.

Check your EPG and set a timer for it if you want to catch up with that show.

Now I'm down to just having missed last week's Talking Dead... and if I'm going to miss something, that's the thing to miss since it is a discussion of last week's episode... and I'll be watching that + tonight's new episode + Tonight's Talking Dead so last week's Talking Dead will be less missed going forward even though I would have watched.


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## jdskycaster (Sep 1, 2008)

Great to see this settled. I wonder how many jumped shipped early and paid for the honor to do so. I really thought there would be no settlement but the timing couldn't be better.


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## georule (Mar 31, 2010)

Congrats to AMC fans who are DISH subscribers. I'm sure this is a great relief.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

For those that might be interested, AMC's full press release reads:


> Cablevision Systems Corporation (NYSE: CVC) and AMC Networks (NASDAQ: AMCX) today announced that they have settled their litigation with DISH Network LLC (NASDAQ: DISH) related to VOOM HD Holdings LLC. The lawsuit, VOOM HD Holdings LLC v. EchoStar Satellite LLC, was filed in the Supreme Court of the State of New York, County of New York.
> 
> The settlement agreements include the following components:
> 
> ...


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## jrseh (Sep 21, 2003)

dennispap said:


> Dear Dennis,
> DISH is pleased to announce that we have reached a multi-year agreement with AMC Networks, which has restored AMC on channel 131.
> All customers will be able to enjoy AMC in free preview on channel 131, and *for fans of The Walking Dead, the first episode of the season will be available on-demand for a limited time*. Please check your channel guide for a complete listing.*
> We appreciate your patience during this time and thank you for being a valued DISH customer.
> ...


I hadn't looked at this forum on Sunday and hadn't checked email until around 10:15 pm EDT, where I found the above email from Dish (received at 9:47 pm). Quickly checked and found 131 now carrying AMC HD and 362 carrying AXS HD. Channel guide for 131 only good for the next hour, but found, online, that TWD second episode of the new season was being shown again at midnight, so I set that up to record, and it did. I also got the Talking Dead that followed. I already saw the first episode thanks to AMC streaming it online. I assume the EPG will refresh and include all the changes overnight. Very glad this has been resolved and AMC is back, just in time for Halloween (AMC is usually the first place I look on a Friday night for horror stuff - hope that continues).

All in all I had to watch three episodes of Breaking Bad through Amazon on ROKU. I watched the first episode online when AMC streamed it for free, then I watched episodes 2, 3, 4, and 5 when I visited my daughter in Seattle in August (she had recorded them). I did have to purchase episodes 6, 7, and 8, but Amazon had some sort of promotion that credited me $5, so the three episodes in HD cost me a grand total of $3.97. I can deal with that.

John

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This part of AMC's release is interesting to me:

"_DISH also conveys its 20-percent membership interest in VOOM HD to Rainbow Programming Holdings LLC, such that all of the cash settlement remains with Cablevision and AMC Networks._"

I had forgotten that Dish had some ownership of Voom... which means 20% of the suit was Dish suing itself 

So... without that clause in there, 20% of the cash settlement would have gone back to Dish... which is important... because the larger cash settlement Rainbow pushed/held out for... the less likely Charlie probably was to give up that stake...

So consider... IF Rainbow demanded 1 billion... but Charlie/Dish would get 20% of that... then Dish would only pay 800 million to Rainbow.

So... that surely figured into the negotiations to fix a lower number IF Dish agreed to divest itself of its share in the process.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If AMC/Cablevision (and their fans) want to feel better about the deal they can divide it into three parts.
1) Carriage of the four channels (plus one dropped in 2011),
2) Unloading Cablevision's MVDDS licenses for $80 million (which might be easier to sell than use for a company like Cablevision),
3) The big cash prize of $620 million (which would be $775 million if DISH got a 20% cut).

Hopefully DISH got a good deal on the carriage and isn't overpaying ... but AMC needs subscribers (not just viewers) to keep their ad rates higher. I do not believe DISH is overpaying for the MVDDS licenses ... hopefully they will put them to good use. And the big cash prize is a fraction of what DISH was facing. I think they did fine.

Both sides can walk away with a win.


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## rexa (Aug 7, 2008)

Received today...
DISH is pleased to announce that we have reached a multi-year agreement with AMC Networks, which has restored AMC on channel 131.

All customers will be able to enjoy AMC in free preview on channel 131, and for fans of The Walking Dead, the first episode of the season will be available on-demand for a limited time*. Please check your channel guide for a complete listing.

We appreciate your patience during this time and thank you for being a valued DISH customer.

Sincerely,

DISH
* _____*

My problem:
NO BREAKING BAD!
(I liked VOOM channels too way back when.)

I remain pissed and unsatisfied. I am locked in with a receiver upgrade or would already be a gone Dish customer. 

F*** Dish. 
They don't care about me. Proved it by killing my favorite show for their legal battle. I will drop them as soon as my untimely upgrade doesn't cost me to leave.


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## Hunter844 (Apr 26, 2007)

Anyone have the ratings for AXS.TV over the past couple months vs what they were doing prior to being moved down to 131? 

I hope they keep HDNETmovies as part of my sub package...I've been enjoying the commercial free movies. 

Off topic...any word on Fox Movies getting HD?


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

Stewart Vernon said:


> That is an interesting aspect... AMC had been asking for more money... perhaps part of the settlement was better placement in a lower tier... which would mean more money to AMC without necessarily increasing the cost per channel.
> 
> We'll have to wait and see what happens after the free preview ends to be certain.
> 
> Now we can cross our fingers and see if Dish and Disney can play nice "soon"!


:lol:You might as well go buy a case of Tums because I don't think this will play out on the 'nice' side.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I didn't expect this to happen over the weekend, thus I wasn't checking the forums.

Now I've missed the first two TWD eps.

Does anyone know if AMC will be rebroadcasting the first two again?

(feel free to PM me)


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

ATARI said:


> I didn't expect this to happen over the weekend, thus I wasn't checking the forums.
> 
> Now I've missed the first two TWD eps.
> 
> ...


Next Sunday starting at 7pm eastern, The Walking Dead will be replaying first two current season episodes followed immediately with the new episode.

I also sent you a PM as well.


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## pjmystic (Nov 15, 2007)

Now what we need is a Season 5 Breaking Bad marathon.


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## habsfan66 (Mar 25, 2010)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm really surprised MSG wasn't included in the settlement deal.


So does this mean that Dish still won't have any MSG channels or that they just haven't been mentioned yet as part of this settlement? I've only been with Dish a few years so don't think I ever had them and I don't know the history of how and why they went away. Maybe someone could enlighten me or steer me to someplace that spells it out when they get a few.


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## kick4fun (Aug 9, 2006)

habsfan66 said:


> So does this mean that Dish still won't have any MSG channels or that they just haven't been mentioned yet as part of this settlement? I've only been with Dish a few years so don't think I ever had them and I don't know the history of how and why they went away. Maybe someone could enlighten me or steer me to someplace that spells it out when they get a few.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSG_(TV_network)


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Cablevision is also giving DISH wireless licenses that are worth money. With the value of those licenses included the settlement gets closer to a wash.


Dish sure is getting a lot of non satellite spectrum, Was it ever mentioned what they plan to use it for, beyond that they were going to use it for Blockbuster?

Thanks
TB


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

TBoneit said:


> Dish sure is getting a lot of non satellite spectrum, Was it ever mentioned what they plan to use it for, beyond that they were going to use it for Blockbuster?
> 
> Thanks
> TB


Dish put plans on hold for internet tv and for streaming. Dish wanted streaming in order to compete against Netflix and Red Box. Hopefully, the plans can get back on track.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

APB101 said:


> Congratulations to the subscribers of Dish Network for finally seeing the return of AMC to the lineup!


I'm happy that I'll be able to watch Sundance Channel in HD in November!


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Well after 1922 posts on the old Dish/AMC thread, a lot of us are probably glad we are not betting people. Not many of us called this result this quick. 

DANG, my DVRs are going to be doing double time to catch all of the shows that they will be catching us up on. 

Hard to fathom the 700 million payment but it looks like it was a give and take negotiation that resulted in both sides getting a lot.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't watch any of the channels involved so I didn't miss them. A lot of you, however, did watch and like them and for you I'm glad they're back.


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## crabtrp (Sep 23, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm happy that I'll be able to watch Sundance Channel in HD in November!


that was not in HD before, right? Is it coming back in HD?


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm really surprised MSG wasn't included in the settlement deal.


Count me in for that one. Kinda crazy. I would prefer MSG back, and in HD too while they're at it.


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

Newsday reports the wireless licenses are valued at $80 million in today's paper. Newsday is owned by Cablevision.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

I wish forced carriage of MonstersHD was part of this deal. :icon_an:


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## PBowie (Jan 4, 2006)

Can we get the Voom channels back too ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

PBowie said:


> Can we get the Voom channels back too ?


Sure ... just as soon as they exist.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Wow. And it'll be back in AT120: "After the free preview, AMC will be available in our Top 120 package and higher. AMC can be found on channel 131."


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## jagowar (Jan 8, 2008)

RasputinAXP said:


> Wow. And it'll be back in AT120: "After the free preview, AMC will be available in our Top 120 package and higher. AMC can be found on channel 131."


Where does it say that? I have been looking for info on which packages it would be on and if it would be dropping back to at120 but none of the official releases that I have seen commented on which packages it would be on.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Word is it's back where it was before. So, Welcome Pack and AT200 and higher.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

AMC is listed here: http://www.dish.com/entertainment/packages/americas-top-120/#channels

AT120 drop down list AMC HD: http://www.dish.com/entertainment/channels/#high-definition


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## jagowar (Jan 8, 2008)

actually just looked on facebook.... looks like it will be on AT120 and up.



> DISH @Dee Shellman Smith & Bonnie Bullock, the packages that include the AMC channel are America's Top 120, America's Top 200, America's Top 250, and America's everything Pack. The channel is currently under a free preview for customer who do not subscribe to a qualifying package that carries the channel. -Kim E.


The above was in the comments of the amc is back post.


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## Santi360HD (Oct 6, 2008)

Must burn Charlie's a$$ that it ended this way.. Deleted emails and bullying people in court all but sealed E*'s fate.. Very Happy!!! for you DISH subs that got your channels back..Disputes have been very personal and nasty lately...Look at how bad the Viacom dispute was for D* it took Jon Stewart to rip them over that stance b4 people came back to the table I believe..

Congrats Dish subs!!! welcome back!!
to Charlie...i cannot curse because my comment will get deleted...so fill in the blanks..


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Santi360HD said:


> Must burn Charlie's a$$ that it ended this way.. Deleted emails and bullying people in court all but sealed E*'s fate..
> 
> to Charlie...i cannot curse because my comment will get deleted...so fill in the blanks..


Fate? Ummm, it's looking like Dish came out way ahead.


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## Worn (May 11, 2012)

Well, I timed my call to dish perfect! I called yesterday morning to complain about not getting AMC. I received a $10 credit for 12 months. I saw an agreement might be in the works and figured I'd better make the call. iTunes even credited my season pass for The Walking Dead. Everything is good again today!


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## Hunter844 (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm just parsing but does it make sense that Dish figured they would lose but choose to tell Cablevision that 700 million cash is better than 2.4 billion of nothing? Couldn't dish drag an appeal out for years and years before paying up?


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## alex000 (Oct 19, 2012)

Inkosaurus said:


> Formerly HDNET, has some excellent concert series in HD and some pretty great HD original programing.
> 
> If Dish moves this back to the [email protected] I will definitely miss it lol


If it's on [email protected], it'll just be on a HD subscription, will have to double check on this as it would be on Dish America or higher and AT120 with HD and higher


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

SayWhat? said:


> Fate? Ummm, it's looking like Dish came out way ahead.


How is having to pay someone $700 million coming out "way ahead?" It may not be over a billion, but it's still $700 million out of their pockets. I doubt putting AMC on the lower tier packages was Charlie's idea either?

Dish lost. And a lot of money moved from them to the other guys. And AMC likely got what they wanted and more. That's ain't winning, if you're Dish.


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## kc1ih (May 22, 2004)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm happy that I'll be able to watch Sundance Channel in HD in November!


Any idea what tier? Formerly Sundance was only available in Blockbuster package, and I really can't justify adding a package for one channel.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Santi360HD said:


> Must burn Charlie's a$$ that it ended this way.. Deleted emails and bullying people in court all but sealed E*'s fate.. Very Happy!!! for you DISH subs that got your channels back..Disputes have been very personal and nasty lately...Look at how bad the Viacom dispute was for D* it took Jon Stewart to rip them over that stance b4 people came back to the table I believe..
> 
> Congrats Dish subs!!! welcome back!!
> to Charlie...i cannot curse because my comment will get deleted...so fill in the blanks..


Did you actually read the settlement? You will be unhappy to know Dish made out ok with this, even got some spectrum in the deal.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm happy that I'll be able to watch Sundance Channel in HD in November!


You are that certain it will be?


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

jagowar said:


> actually just looked on facebook.... looks like it will be on AT120 and up.
> 
> The above was in the comments of the amc is back post.


It is listed now on the Dish website as being part of the top120.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

fudpucker said:


> How is having to pay someone $700 million coming out "way ahead?" It may not be over a billion, but it's still $700 million out of their pockets. I doubt putting AMC on the lower tier packages was Charlie's idea either?
> 
> Dish lost. And a lot of money moved from them to the other guys. And AMC likely got what they wanted and more. That's ain't winning, if you're Dish.


Think about it...

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong... but I believe Dish dropped Voom HD back in May of 2008... that means nearly 4.5 years of NOT paying Voom HD for those channels.

The speculation has Dish paying somewhere between $100-$200 million per year for those Voom HD channels... so the past 4.5 years of Voom HD would have cost Dish $450-$900 million!

Also... I believe they had something like a 15 year contract that was broken... so you could be talking another $900 million to $1.8 billion that Dish would still be locked into paying to Voom HD.

Now...

Dish paid $700 million to settle the lawsuit AND got some wireless licenses thrown their way!

The AMC extended new contract is a non-issue because had the trial not existed, AMC probably gets a new contract anyway... and Dish is paying for AMC programming that they get to sell to customers so any increase in rates there gets passed to Dish customers next time they adjust rates.

So... on the low side, Dish really owed Voom HD $450-$900 million anyway... but possibly as much as $1.35 to $2.7 billion!

So ask yourself that question again... and remember that the evidence this last couple of weeks REALLY started to go south for a Dish win... I expect Rainbow/AMC could have held out for a better settlement... and I won't complain... but man, given the state of the info coming out of the court the last week or so, this smells like a HUGE win for Dish when you tally everything up.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

alex000 said:


> If it's on [email protected], it'll just be on a HD subscription, will have to double check on this as it would be on Dish America or higher and AT120 with HD and higher


Incorrect.

[email protected] and a subscription to HD programming do not yield the same programming.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> So ask yourself that question again... and remember that the evidence this last couple of weeks REALLY started to go south for a Dish win... I expect Rainbow/AMC could have held out for a better settlement... and I won't complain... but man, given the state of the info coming out of the court the last week or so, this smells like a HUGE win for Dish when you tally everything up.


Potential settlements/jury awards aside, as far as the fees and carriage deals, this came out as nearly a wash for both sides. No one really won or lost.

Analysts tend to agree:



> ISI Group analyst Vijay Jayant said for Dish, the settlement was "better than expected." He explained: "I think investors thought it was going to be $1 billion. It's generally good for all." Asked before the market open whether Dish's stock should rise on Monday, he said: "It was up a lot last week in anticipation."
> 
> Credit Suisse analyst Stefan Anninger also highlighted the deal as a "positive outcome for Dish...given that Dish's weak legal position in the case and AMC-Cablevision's claim could have amounted to about $3 billion in cash with interest." He maintained his "outperform" rating and $38 price target, saying most of the news should be priced into the stock. "All in all, however, we think Dish shares will like [the] news," he said.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dish-amc-networks-stocks-legal-settlement-381510

That article also says both stocks hit new 52 week highs.

Dish got the favorable edge though in the wireless spectrum if they can make it pay off in the future.


----------



## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

SayWhat? said:


> Potential settlements/jury awards aside, as far as the fees and carriage deals, this came out as nearly a wash for both sides. No one really won or lost.
> 
> Analysts tend to agree:
> 
> ...


I agree. Dish somehow came out of court with almost getting a good deal.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I wonder if there was a skeleton in the Dolans closet that was about get dragged out. Something that made them suddenly say, "Whoa, wait a minute here ..... Time to make this all go away."


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I can't believe some of you are spinning this like Dish is so smart in doing what they did like they're the good guys. The company broke their contract, lied about emails, destroyed evidence, etc. Talk about a scumbag way to do business.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"Hunter844" said:


> I'm just parsing but does it make sense that Dish figured they would lose but choose to tell Cablevision that 700 million cash is better than 2.4 billion of nothing? Couldn't dish drag an appeal out for years and years before paying up?


Yes, but then AMC would not get carriage on Dish during that time. Moving it to AT120 means that they not only get the 12% of their viewers back that they lost on July 1st, they gain even more customers. In the short run, the cash may seem like a better deal, but viewer fees plus advertising revenues are much, much greater.


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## Voyager6 (Apr 17, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I can't believe some of you are spinning this like Dish is so smart in doing what they did like they're the good guys. The company broke their contract, lied about emails, destroyed evidence, etc. Talk about a scumbag way to do business.


That was how Cablevison's lawyer portrayed Dish. Now, it was Dish's turn to trash Cablevison and show us how Cablevison betrayed Dish. We will never know what other information Dish had on Cablevision. However, there must of been enough dirt there to convince Cablevision to agree to a settlement. Also, the Dolan's had to stop the bleeding of ad revenue from AMC along with the carriage revenue.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> How is having to pay someone $700 million coming out "way ahead?" It may not be over a billion, but it's still $700 million out of their pockets. I doubt putting AMC on the lower tier packages was Charlie's idea either?
> 
> Dish lost. And a lot of money moved from them to the other guys. And AMC likely got what they wanted and more. That's ain't winning, if you're Dish.


It seems like a win win situation to me. Dish now has even more wireless spectrum to add to what they have been buying up. They avoided a potential 2.7Billion fee for 700 Million and got the wireless as part of it.

Wall street is now happy with both corporations.

My question is how will this effect other upcoming negotiations for Dish and for AMC.
Will Others take a tougher stance with AMC?
Will Dish decide to take a even tougher stance with Disney?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

sigma1914 said:


> I can't believe some of you are spinning this like Dish is so smart in doing what they did like they're the good guys. The company broke their contract, lied about emails, destroyed evidence, etc. Talk about a scumbag way to do business.


How about 100m$ to show new content then running back to back reruns on a dozen or so channels?
Thats pretty shady too


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## joyandjerry (Jul 3, 2012)

ehilbert1 said:


> It's got to be killing some people that AMC is back. Some people took pleasure in others not having it just because they don't watch it. Putting it down putting people down that watch TWD.
> 
> Good for AMC and Dish getting this done finally! Ha ha to the haters who said it wouldn't happen!


:goodjob: Couldn't agree more! The more Dish or DTV has to offer, the better for all subscribers.

It never ceases to amaze me how opinionated people can be. . . that a show or station is "lame", etc. b/c it is not their particular area of interest. This is why we have hundreds of stations. :lol:

What is to be gained by putting down anothers interest?

I'm just glad I "hung in there" and didn't switch to DTV. There is a lot on our DVR stored, and Dish gave me credits for some AMC programs that I watch. (Being an honest person, I did not request credits for the show I don't watch.) We also got some monthly discounts for a year, and the premiums for half for 6 months. Jerry and I have had AEP for eight years, so they wanted to retain us.

For those who cannot stream at home, and was not aware of this until Monday, AMC is running the first two eps starting 7:00 PM Sunday.

AMC would have lost nearly $100 million in ad revenue yearly by losing Dish. Carriage can only help their ratings.

Thanks to all for the great reports and "conversations" about this issue the last few months.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

TBoneit said:


> It seems like a win win situation to me. Dish now has even more wireless spectrum to add to what they have been buying up. They avoided a potential 2.7Billion fee for 700 Million and got the wireless as part of it.
> 
> Wall street is now happy with both corporations.
> 
> ...


I see a nasty fight coming between Dish and Disney.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

It may be interesting for sure.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I ordered Dish last night. I would have ordered it in the summer if not for Dish's dispute with AMC. 

I have FiOS TV, which I LOVE - but I'm in Frontier territory and not Verizon so it is an end of life product here with no new technology improvements or HD adds. Too bad. 

I'm looking forward to having the Hopper!


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Anyone see how much the "wireless spectrum" portion of the settlement is worth?

Anyone care to guess?

Seems like bandwidth is a highly desirable thing these days.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> Anyone see how much the "wireless spectrum" portion of the settlement is worth?
> 
> Anyone care to guess?
> 
> Seems like bandwidth is a highly desirable thing theses days.


This is what makes it a long term win for Dish.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I can't believe some of you are spinning this like Dish is so smart in doing what they did like they're the good guys. The company broke their contract, lied about emails, destroyed evidence, etc. Talk about a scumbag way to do business.


I have never seen anything like it. It's like Dish is a family member or something. I can understand being loyal but it's still a media company. People always tend to make excuses to make "their" side look better.

Some people on here are just doing it because again.... their sole purpose for posting in this thread is gone. They put down a the channel and the people that watch it. The sad thing is they claim to not care about the situation and never watch AMC. So why would they act so childish?? I think some of us here know why.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

ehilbert1 said:


> I have never seen anything like it. It's like Dish is a family member or something. I can understand being loyal but it's still a media company. People always tend to make excuses to make "their" side look better.
> 
> Some people on here are just doing it because again.... their sole purpose for posting in this thread is gone. They put down a the channel and the people that watch it. The sad thing is they claim to not care about the situation and never watch AMC. So why would they act so childish?? I think some of us here know why.


As if this post was in anyway shape or form mature right?
Try reading your own posts before you sling the "childish" insult around lol.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

ehilbert1 said:


> I have never seen anything like it. It's like Dish is a family member or something. I can understand being loyal but it's still a media company. People always tend to make excuses to make "their" side look better.
> 
> Some people on here are just doing it because again.... their sole purpose for posting in this thread is gone. They put down a the channel and the people that watch it. The sad thing is they claim to not care about the situation and never watch AMC. So why would they act so childish?? I think some of us here know why.


+1 Never quite understood why those that don't watch the channel even bothered to post on this thread.

Its not like rates would drop if a channel is dropped. More likely we would have a slight increase next year to offset all the new programming and legal costs.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

"Inkosaurus" said:


> As if this post was in anyway shape or form mature right?
> Try reading your own posts before you sling the "childish" insult around lol.


What I posted is fact! When someone calls people mental patients for watching TWD.... that's childish. When people post in a thread just to put down the channel and people that watch it.... that's childish. Especially when they have declared time and time again they don't care about the channel or watch it.

Like I said I stated fact! So lol all you want!! I'm sure others will agree that actually watch the channel!


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

ehilbert1 said:


> What I posted is fact! When someone calls people mental patients for watching TWD.... that's childish. When people post in a thread just to put down the channel and people that watch it.... that's childish. Especially when they have declared time and time again they don't care about the channel or watch it.
> 
> Like I said I stated fact! So lol all you want!! I'm sure others will agree that actually watch the channel!


lol I just re-read it and with the extra bit of context you added in this most recent post I know exactly who you are talking about.

With that said I have to redact my statement and have to definitely agree with your post lol.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> I can't believe some of you are spinning this like Dish is so smart in doing what they did like they're the good guys.


Considering the other side was spinning DISH into the ground last week because it appeared this would be a great big loss isn't it fair? Somehow DISH took a $2.4B potential loss and cut it down to $620 million.

Normally that would be considered a "win".



ehilbert1 said:


> Some people on here are just doing it because again.... their sole purpose for posting in this thread is gone.


There have been people in the old thread that posted just to bash DISH ... any time anything goes wrong for DISH they seem to find the thread and pile on. I wish people wouldn't do that.

This is a good thread to be happy that the lawsuit is done ... that the channels are returning and both Cablevision and DISH are happy with the outcome. If they can get along can't we all get along?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Considering the other side was spinning DISH into the ground last week because it appeared this would be a great big loss isn't it fair? Somehow DISH took a $2.4B potential loss and cut it down to $620 million.
> 
> Normally that would be considered a "win".
> 
> ...


It's a win, but look what it took. They're still guilty. I guess if you win by any means necessary without ethics, who cares?


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Inkosaurus said:


> lol I just re-read it and with the extra bit of context you added in this most recent post I know exactly who you are talking about.
> 
> With that said I have to redact my statement and have to definitely agree with your post lol.


I'm glad we see eye to eye on that lol. I was thinking to myself oh man not Inkosaurus.... Glad all is well!



James Long said:


> Considering the other side was spinning DISH into the ground last week because it appeared this would be a great big loss isn't it fair? Somehow DISH took a $2.4B potential loss and cut it down to $620 million.
> 
> Normally that would be considered a "win".
> 
> ...


I feel the same way man. People just need to grow up. They use their online persona to do what they don't have the grapefruits to do in real life. In real life their can be consequences for putting people down.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> It's a win, but look what it took. They're still guilty. I guess if you win by any means necessary without ethics, who cares?


You're talking apples vs oranges here.

Look at the evolution of my own posts for an example.

In the beginning, I thought Dish was right and within their rights to do what they did years ago with Voom. I still think Voom wasn't trying to grow their channels... but as the new evidence was coming to light the last couple of weeks, it looked fairly damning to Dish... and I posted as much last week.

It looked for all the world to me like Rainbow was going to win this case and get a large settlement given the last week's worth of testimony and the uncovering of Dish-deleted emails that appeared to support the Voom view and squash the Dish view of what was allowed.

So... when we then see such a quick settlement for frankly a half or so of what I would have thought Dish would have had to pay...

It doesn't make Dish right... it still looks like Dish was in the wrong... but clearly to most people Dish still "won" the war here... because the payout was way less than probably would have come in a verdict, and it didn't look like Dish had any legs to stand on anymore.

So, I don't see anyone spinning that Dish was right... just that Dish seems to have won, because Rainbow blinked and settled what was looking more and more like a "sure thing" court victory over Dish.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> It looked for all the world to me like Rainbow was going to win this case and get a large settlement
> 
> So... when we then see such a quick settlement for frankly a half or so of what I would have thought Dish would have had to pay...
> 
> ...


Which again makes me wonder what didn't AMC/Rainbow want to come out in court? What was in their internal emails?


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Sometimes you just wonder how Charlie does it. They get Distants taken away, yet come out with Distants via AAD, and because AAD is not the carrier for your locals, even more people are qualified to get Distants with Dish. (Of which I am one)

Dish is accused of wrong doing in the VOOM case, from all accounts is about to have their head handed to them, and yet a settlement of a very reasonable amount, especially considering all the years of not having to pay for VOOM services. But the _Pièce de résistance, _not just getting spectrum, but...

http://www.fiercecable.com/story/vo...band-wireless-spectr/2012-10-22#ixzz2A9KRSUDf

They now are the biggest holder of it.....

Moral of the story - don't bet against Charlie.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You've got to know when to hold them ...


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

tampa8 said:


> Sometimes you just wonder how Charlie does it. They get Distants taken away, yet come out with Distants via AAD, and because AAD is not the carrier for your locals, even more people are qualified to get Distants with Dish. (Of which I am one)
> 
> Dish is accused of wrong doing in the VOOM case, from all accounts is about to have their head handed to them, and yet a settlement of a very reasonable amount, especially considering all the years of not having to pay for VOOM services. But the _Pièce de résistance, _not just getting spectrum, but...
> 
> ...


40$ for 50mbps? 
sign me up!

thanks for that link. [ even tho I'll never see that happen where I live.]

Figured that broadband deal was more than just the cherry on Ergen's cake


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## Wildblue (Mar 20, 2008)

Wow, this thread got ugly.

So I'll just add what I was going to post--I'm happy AMC is back, and the other channels will be nice, too. When I switched from D* to Dish a couple months ago, not having AMC was honestly one of the very few hangups for me, but I decided to go through with it anyway. I really enjoy Mad Men, and was really not wanting to miss out on it.

So I'm happy that I'll get Mad Men again, and will check out the other stuff too. Cool! At first, I was a bit disappointed when I discovered that channel 131 HD is placed on one of the satellite channels that we don't get in Alaska. (we still get SD versions of most of those channels, though) But then I found an AMC HD channel up on 5658 or something, so all is good. 

Oh, and whoever posted that the TWD season premiere is available for a limited time On Demand, I'm not finding it in the On Demand listings.


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## joyandjerry (Jul 3, 2012)

Wildblue said:


> Wow, this thread got ugly.
> 
> So I'll just add what I was going to post--I'm happy AMC is back, and the other channels will be nice, too. When I switched from D* to Dish a couple months ago, not having AMC was honestly one of the very few hangups for me, but I decided to go through with it anyway. I really enjoy Mad Men, and was really not wanting to miss out on it.
> 
> ...


It's also available directly on AMC's site to view. The premiere ep of the season will be rebroadcast Sunday at 7:00 PM EST.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> It looked for all the world to me like Rainbow was going to win this case and get a large settlement given the last week's worth of testimony and the uncovering of Dish-deleted emails that appeared to support the Voom view and squash the Dish view of what was allowed.
> 
> So... when we then see such a quick settlement for frankly a half or so of what I would have thought Dish would have had to pay...
> 
> ...


If a win means you didn't lose nearly as much as you could have, sure, you can call it a win. As opposed to actually winning the case. Like Michigan and Ohio State going into a football game, no one knows who will win, and in the 4th quarter Ohio State starts getting their tails kicked, and it looks like they're going to lose 100-0, and Michigan pulls their starters and OSU only loses 70-0. I guess they could call that a win. So if going to court, paying the millions to your team of attorneys, with every intent of walking away with a win, then being discovered as having lied to the court and the public and paying several hundred million out to the people you're fighting is better than it could have been and thus that is the definition of a win, OK.

People keep saying Voom "blinked" as if Dish stared them down and they crumbled. I doubt, with all the evidence that was uncovered, and the sudden "WHOA - um, can we stop this trial, please, judge?" that occurred as soon as this evidence was introduced, I just don't believe Voom backed down or blinked in any way. They knew they had the upper hand. As a couple of experienced attorneys have commented, most plaintiffs never expect to get what they are suing for, you always make claims for far above what you expect to get, that's just part of the game. And we do not know all the details of the agreement.

So yeah, if that's a win for Dish, we'd better hope they don't have a win every year or they'll go bankrupt!


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

fudpucker said:


> If a win means you didn't lose nearly as much as you could have, sure, you can call it a win. As opposed to actually winning the case. Like Michigan and Ohio State going into a football game, no one knows who will win, and in the 4th quarter Ohio State starts getting their tails kicked, and it looks like they're going to lose 100-0, and Michigan pulls their starters and OSU only loses 70-0. I guess they could call that a win. So if going to court, paying the millions to your team of attorneys, with every intent of walking away with a win, then being discovered as having lied to the court and the public and paying several hundred million out to the people you're fighting is better than it could have been and thus that is the definition of a win, OK.
> 
> People keep saying Voom "blinked" as if Dish stared them down and they crumbled. I doubt, with all the evidence that was uncovered, and the sudden "WHOA - um, can we stop this trial, please, judge?" that occurred as soon as this evidence was introduced, I just don't believe Voom backed down or blinked in any way. They knew they had the upper hand. As a couple of experienced attorneys have commented, most plaintiffs never expect to get what they are suing for, you always make claims for far above what you expect to get, that's just part of the game. And we do not know all the details of the agreement.
> 
> So yeah, if that's a win for Dish, we'd better hope they don't have a win every year or they'll go bankrupt!


I take issue with you having that team up north winning!! Try the other way around! Go Bucks!! OK as you were!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

fudpucker said:


> If a win means you didn't lose nearly as much as you could have, sure, you can call it a win. As opposed to actually winning the case.


Are you reading the same info as the rest of us?



fudpucker said:


> Like Michigan and Ohio State going into a football game, no one knows who will win, and in the 4th quarter Ohio State starts getting their tails kicked, and it looks like they're going to lose 100-0, and Michigan pulls their starters and OSU only loses 70-0. I guess they could call that a win.


Umm.. no, that analogy isn't correct at all. Trying to stay within sports...and using your example...

Michigan and Ohio State start a game... nobody scores for a while, but the penalty yards and field position game are becoming increasingly one-sided... It is a 3-3 game with all the yards and time of possession and field position are WAY in Michigan's favor... and the Ohio State players are starting to get tired in the second half... Michigan starts running the ball for big yards each play and takes a 17-3 lead.

BUT... instead of playing the game out... Michigan and Ohio State agree to settle for a 20-20 tie game so that neither suffers a loss... and Michigan sends a couple of players over to Ohio State in a trade deal.

That's a little closer to what happened.

Rainbow, given the way the trial was proceeding as far as we can tell, was raking up the points with the judge (and presumably the jury)... so it was looking like a win was inevitable... but instead of going for that... Rainbow settles with Dish for far less than they were asking AND gives Dish something else (the wireless licenses) in the process.

On what planet is that not a win for Dish? Dish turned a sure loss into at worst a tie, at best a win on paper.



fudpucker said:


> So yeah, if that's a win for Dish, we'd better hope they don't have a win every year or they'll go bankrupt!


Sorry... but a company like Dish has lawyers on retainer year-round anyway... so they probably pay the lawyers pretty much the same whether in court or not... might as well put them to use!

Also, even with those fees and the settlement... Dish still spent less than they would have had to pay for Voom HD on the original contract... so Dish saved that money literally!

I make the case that IF Dish lost all of its court-cases like this, they will beg to be sued!


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Wildblue said:


> Wow, this thread got ugly.
> 
> Oh, and whoever posted that the TWD season premiere is available for a limited time On Demand, I'm not finding it in the On Demand listings.


I dont watch the show, but the on demand listing shows ep 303 "seed". I don't know if that is the one you are looking for or not.


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

Don't forget that AMC got moved to a lower package with many more subscribers, and got Fuse back on Dish along with the other channels. None of us knows what Dish is now paying for AMC and the other channels, but I feel confident that it's significantly higher than what Dish would have been willing to pay if there had been no settlement. 

Without knowing the terms of the renewal agreement, I don't see how anyone can reasonably declare Dish the winner. I'm not saying AMC won either, but I think they may have done much better than some of you may be giving them credit for.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

fudpucker said:


> People keep saying Voom "blinked" as if Dish stared them down and they crumbled. I doubt, with all the evidence that was uncovered, and the sudden "WHOA - um, can we stop this trial, please, judge?"


Point is, we're really not sure who said 'Whoa!' For all we know, the Dolans found something that they didn't want to get out in open court. Maybe something bigger than the Dish emails.

I still don't know how the spectrum got into this. That was never mentioned publicly prior to the other day. Why would they give that up the way they did? Especially when Cablevision is expanding into wireless distribution on their own.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

It just stands out to me that Dish was going to introduce something next week, something that Cablevision felt would mitigate the outcome, though still in their favor. These two sides really virtually hated each other. To come up with this kind of settlement, where Dish actually gets something valuable was from way out of left field.

And think about this. If Dish proposed the possible settlement, out of complete weakness, how did they ask for, and get spectrum? And get Cablevision down to about $620 Million?
And reverse that, if Dish was so weak, why would Cablevision propose a settlement, much less selling them something valuable at a reasonable price giving Dish the biggest piece of the spectrum. And then accept $620 Million? Cablevision had to think they had very little chance on part of their claim flying, and felt this settlement was good for a sure thing.

The answer points to Dish was not in as much of a weak position as we thought. That, or they hypnotized the negotiators.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> It just stands out to me that Dish was going to introduce something next week, something that Cablevision felt would mitigate the outcome, though still in their favor. These two sides really virtually hated each other. To come up with this kind of settlement, where Dish actually gets something valuable was from way out of left field.
> 
> And think about this. If Dish proposed the possible settlement, out of complete weakness, how did they ask for, and get spectrum? And get Cablevision down to about $620 Million?
> And reverse that, if Dish was so weak, why would Cablevision propose a settlement, much less selling them something valuable at a reasonable price giving Dish the biggest piece of the spectrum. And then accept $620 Million? Cablevision had to think they had very little chance on part of their claim flying, and felt this settlement was good for a sure thing.
> ...


Obvious answer - avoid Dish appealing the decision and dragging it out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but lawyers must share evidence that they'll present. If Dish had something detrimental on CV, why would Dish just settle? They'd want to win...heck, they had no trouble lying and destroying evidence to win. Keep defending the lying company...


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I went out of my way to say it was something to mitigate the outcome, not that it was detrimental. And never did I say Dish could have won, I said not in as a weak position as we (or many of us) thought. 
And what dragging out? Dish hasn't even given their testimony yet. It's that fact, that Cablevision entered into this agreement before Dish goes in next week that is no coincidence. Cablevision had to think their case could be weakened, and they will not get anywhere near what they were going for. (I will say, no way were they ever going to get 2.5 Billion) But if they were in such a strong position, this settlement might have happened, but for much more money, and perhaps no spectrum for Dish, or a higher amount to buy it.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> ...
> And what dragging out? ...


Appeals court after the case repeatedly ...thus delaying any payment and costing CV more.


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## Hunter844 (Apr 26, 2007)

Is it me or does AMC Just play the same stuff over and over again? Every time I check my guide they are showing Halloween: Resurrection


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Then you do that after the case, and see how strong you think you are on appeal. Then assess how much to settle for. Your idea is not incorrect, just too early to be probable. Doing it earlier underscores that Dish's position was not as weak as some thought.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Hunter844 said:


> Is it me or does AMC Just play the same stuff over and over again? Every time I check my guide they are showing Halloween: Resurrection


They are showing scary movies since it is October. It ends on the 31st. You can check AMCtv for their schedule after the marathon is over.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

tampa8 said:


> I went out of my way to say it was something to mitigate the outcome, not that it was detrimental. And never did I say Dish could have won, I said not in as a weak position as we (or many of us) thought.
> And what dragging out? Dish hasn't even given their testimony yet. It's that fact, that Cablevision entered into this agreement before Dish goes in next week that is no coincidence. Cablevision had to think their case could be weakened, and they will not get anywhere near what they were going for. (I will say, no way were they ever going to get 2.5 Billion) But if they were in such a strong position, this settlement might have happened, but for much more money, and perhaps no spectrum for Dish, or a higher amount to buy it.


Of course, the unknown factor is what Dish is paying for the AMC channels. Also, the spectrum sale has to clear the FCC (though that is likely).

I suspect there is enough in the full details of the deal to let both CEOs claim victory to their boards.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Are you reading the same info as the rest of us?
> 
> Michigan and Ohio State start a game... nobody scores for a while, but the penalty yards and field position game are becoming increasingly one-sided... It is a 3-3 game with all the yards and time of possession and field position are WAY in Michigan's favor... and the Ohio State players are starting to get tired in the second half... Michigan starts running the ball for big yards each play and takes a 17-3 lead.
> 
> ...


One - yeah, they have lawyers on retainer. But having been involved in a lawsuit in which the amount being sued for was a little over a million, and with a company which had a 3 story building that was our lawyer building, I can tell the ADDITIONAL cost for a trial like this was quite a few million. You don't pay trial lawyers their per hour fee for a major lawsuit until you are in the lawsuit. And they charge a fortune per hour, per lawyer. I guarantee you that there were major lawyer fees (for both sides) in this case above and beyond.

Without all the contortions, let me ask you the simple question: If you hadn't read anything at all in the last week, and someone told you Dish won the case, what would you have guessed the result was? That they won and didn't have to pay anything, that the jury agreed with them. Right? Let's say there was no settlement, and the jury came back and said we find Dish guilty as charged, and assess the damage to be $700 million, plus we order Dish to immediately start carrying AMC and related channels, and we order Dish to carry AMC on a lower tier than what they were before the dispute in order to be able to tell their advertisers they not only have all of those viewers back but a huge number more, and we also order Dish to pay XX for AMC and other channels, would you have said Hah, take THAT Voom!

I've been involved in 3 cases like this, 2 of them very closely. I doubt Voom thought when they sued for the amount they did they would ever get that amount, and I would bet you a lot that if Dish said, hey, how about we give you $700 million and take AMC back at a really nice fee you like and also put it on a lower tier and give you double the viewership (I dont know what it is but I guess a lot) and pay for these other channels also, oh, and also give you that 20% back so that you get ALL the money, I suspect there would have never been a trial. It's kinda silly (just IMO) to think that Dish had something on Voom - it's no coincidence they stopped the trial as soon as it was proven in court that Dish was lying.

I suspect that Voom/AMC is breaking out the champagne.

(BTW - lest ye think I hate Dish, I'm on a business trip in Germany right now, watching shows from my DVR at home, on my iPad in my hotel room. I love Dish's product. I'd be with DirectTV if I didn't. I switched from DirectTV after being with them since 1995 and frankly also think they have a great product. I'll be getting a Hopper once I figure out how much it will cost me. So I have no problem with Dish the service even though I don't agree with a few of their choices. FWIW.)

At the end of the day, it is what it is, so call it whatever you like, it makes no practical difference to us as viewers, other than those who will now get to watch some shows at a lower tier than before.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The problem in that logic is...

Whatever Dish is now paying for AMC... will be passed to the consumer/subscriber once we get to the next rate increase... so that is a non-issue to the lawsuit. Even if Dish is paying more for AMC now than previously, WE will be paying that just as we would if they had extended the contract independently of the settlement.

So the only relevant points are... cash out of hand from Dish to Voom AND the wireless licenses that Rainbow gave to Dish.

And you simply cannot dismiss that original 15 year Voom HD contract. The whole reason there is a lawsuit is that Rainbow said Dish broke a 15-year contract... so IF Dish was ruled to have broken that contract, it is reasonable to assume at least the amount due over the last 4.5 years was due + something for court costs and damages... maybe not the full 15-year contract... but at least the part I described.

Had Dish NOT broken the contract... Dish would still be in that 15 year contract... so Dish saved all that money by breaking it.

Think of it like a customer. You sign up for a 2 year commitment with Dish... but after a few months you decide you want DirecTV. You can either pay Dish for the remaining 21 months OR pay them the substantially lower cancellation fee and go ahead over to DirecTV now. You can do this because the contract says you can.

The Voom contract didn't say Dish could get out with an early-exit fee... but Dish basically ended up negotiating an early-exit fee through court. That's a win for Dish... because when the dust settles:

1. Dish isn't forced to pay the Voom contract in full.
2. Dish has the channels back they recently dropped.
3. Dish has new wireless licenses.

Rainbow has:

1. $700 million cash in-hand.
2. AMC carriage contract with Dish.

Dish, in the end, basically has everything they wanted... they knew they were going to have to pay something... but this way they got stuff in return!

Rainbow, got a little bit... but not what they wanted... and they had to give up something to get it.

Rainbow should have won this case in court and got more for it. Dish wins in a settlement here. The longer Dish was beaten down in court and the bigger the verdict, the worse that would have been for Dish in the long run.

A year from now, this will all be forgotten.... just the way Dish would like it!


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Stewart Vernon said:


> The problem in that logic is...
> 
> Whatever Dish is now paying for AMC... will be passed to the consumer/subscriber once we get to the next rate increase... so that is a non-issue to the lawsuit. Even if Dish is paying more for AMC now than previously, WE will be paying that just as we would if they had extended the contract independently of the settlement.
> 
> ...


I would say spot on, SV.
Everyone gets what they want, except of course, the price increase for us.

Also, if Ergen holds on to that spectrum, It's value will excede the quoted 80 mill. as there is only so much to go around. What remains to be seen is how he'll use it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

satcrazy said:


> I would say spot on, SV.
> Everyone gets what they want, except of course, the price increase for us.


We were getting an increase anyways ... unless another lawsuit against DISH stops it.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> We were getting an increase anyways ... unless another lawsuit against DISH stops it.


Probably in package prices and fees. I'm new to Dish but from what I gather they do a raise the rates enough to cover two years then freeze it. Then they raise the fees for DVR and such the next year. I have been told they freeze the prices for two years but the basically raise them enough to cover those two years.

So I bet your right. Even if AMC was back or not prices will go up. Probably fees too.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

James Long said:


> We were getting an increase anyways ... unless another lawsuit against DISH stops it.


Any idea when?

I had the 2013 price freeze when I signed up, due to expire in March.

So my question is, how often is there a increase?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

satcrazy said:


> Any idea when?
> 
> I had the 2013 price freeze when I signed up, due to expire in March.
> 
> So my question is, how often is there a increase?


Every feburary.
Last year was skipped because of the price freeze but Dish doesnt do that every other year so just count on some sort of increase or change going down every Feburary.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

In addition, WE, FUSE, IFC and Sundance are also available to DISH customers in Free Preview in Standard Definition. The list below may help you with questions regarding when and where these channels are located in the channel lineup.



WE
AT120, Plus, Dos, Max
HD120 & higher, HDPlus, 

HD DOS and HD Max
128
31-Oct

FUSE
AT120
HD120 & higher
164
31-Oct

IFC
AT120, Dos, Max
HD120 & higher, HD DOS and HD Max
298
31-Oct

SUNDANCE
AT200
HD200 & higher
358
31-Oct

From what I can tell they all moved up.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

"tsmacro" said:


> In addition, WE, FUSE, IFC and Sundance are also available to DISH customers in Free Preview in Standard Definition. The list below may help you with questions regarding when and where these channels are located in the channel lineup.
> 
> WE
> AT120, Plus, Dos, Max
> ...


Are you stating that these will be in HD? :0)

You are right about moving to a lower package for the AT packages.

We was in AT200 and Plus before the dispute.

Fuse was in AT200 before the dispute and never in Dish Latino packages as far as I know.

IFC was in AT200 and Dos before.

Sundance Channel was in Blockbuster @ Home before.

All were in SD before as AMC was the only one in HD before.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Mojo Jojo said:


> Are you stating that these will be in HD? :0)
> 
> All were in SD before as AMC was the only one in HD before.


I'm just passing on the info Dish sent me, it does appear they are stating they will all be in HD though doesn't it?


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

tsmacro said:


> In addition, WE, FUSE, IFC and Sundance are also available to DISH customers in Free Preview in Standard Definition. The list below may help you with questions regarding when and where these channels are located in the channel lineup.
> 
> WE
> AT120, Plus, Dos, Max
> ...


Good info according to Dish FB these channels should light up today at 5pm eastern


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

"tsmacro" said:


> I'm just passing on the info Dish sent me, it does appear they are stating they will all be in HD though doesn't it?


Yes. Hopefully, it is a treat and not a trick.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I could be wrong, but last I checked, I didn't see the rest of the channels back yet...


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

Looks like there up now (SD): http://uplink.jameslong.name/updates/2012/10/103112-at-607pm-et-v18-108-changes-seen/


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

coolman302003 said:


> Looks like there up now (SD): http://uplink.jameslong.name/updates/2012/10/103112-at-607pm-et-v18-108-changes-seen/


only sd:nono::nono:


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## rasheed (Sep 12, 2005)

Whoa. Looks like a bunch of AT120 additions. Very interesting.

I am surprised that Sundance did not return to [email protected] package. Not all of us have AT200.

Further, Mad Men re-encores the recent season starting this weekend.

R


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rasheed said:


> Whoa. Looks like a bunch of AT120 additions. Very interesting.


It was an odd update ... late in the day. Perhaps they are not finished but for now the channels are in place and in SD.



> I am surprised that Sundance did not return to [email protected] package. Not all of us have AT200.


More people have AT200. Perhaps DISH could be convinced to put the channel in both packages.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Interesting... no HD feeds... so I wonder why all of these couldn't have been put back up last week?

I figured getting AMC up that Sunday was a priority... but logically, there was no reason they couldn't have had SD feeds of these returning channels back up by that week's Wednesday uplink update... the only thing that made sense was if they were perhaps going HD with them and needed more time to test... but if we aren't getting HD, I'm scratching my head wondering why these feeds were so slow to come back.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Interesting... no HD feeds... so I wonder why all of these couldn't have been put back up last week?
> 
> I figured getting AMC up that Sunday was a priority... but logically, there was no reason they couldn't have had SD feeds of these returning channels back up by that week's Wednesday uplink update... the only thing that made sense was if they were perhaps going HD with them and needed more time to test... but if we aren't getting HD, I'm scratching my head wondering why these feeds were so slow to come back.


I agree. Plus this is from the dish facebook page.

DISH Hi Dennis, right now I do not show any HD listing for IFC, WEtv, Sundance or Fuse as of yet. They might be coming in the near future. -Jason S


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

dennispap said:


> I agree. Plus this is from the dish facebook page.
> 
> DISH Hi Dennis, right now I do not show any HD listing for IFC, WEtv, Sundance or Fuse as of yet. They might be coming in the near future. -Jason S


Those listings he's referring to dont update till the last minute.

*Source: Ive had to use them before >.>*


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

And this one removed all references to IFC, We, Sundance and Fuse being possibly available in HD.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

tsmacro said:


> And this one removed all references to IFC, We, Sundance and Fuse being possibly available in HD.


No I mean they likely reverted the listing to how it was pre- AMC takedown until if/when they add the other channels in HD.

Its much simpler to revert it to the older listing then to go in and manually add the channels again. Then when/if the HD would have come back all they would have to do is make an incredibly minor edit.

Thus why there not accurate until literally the last minute.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Inkosaurus said:


> Its much simpler to revert it to the older listing then to go in and manually add the channels again. Then when/if the HD would have come back all they would have to do is make an incredibly minor edit.


Come *back*? When were WE, IFC, Sundance and Fuse in HD?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> As posted above:
> "DISH will resume broadcast of the AMC channel Sunday, October 21. The AMC channel will be carried on DISH channel 131."
> 
> "Other AMC Networks programming, including Sundance Channel, WE tv and IFC, will return to DISH Nov. 1. The Madison Square Garden Company's music-oriented Fuse channel will begin broadcast Nov. 1, as well."
> ...


I'm not seeing WE TV, IFC but I'm seeing FUSE SD. What's up with that?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm seeing WE TV, IFC but I'm seeing FUSE SD. What's up with that?


 Me too....I thought we were going to get all this stuff in HD? Not that I watch much...AMC is about it for me. :lol:


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

The projected HD feed for Fuse is 1/16/13. Thanks.



Paul Secic said:


> I'm seeing WE TV, IFC but I'm seeing FUSE SD. What's up with that?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

James Long said:


> Come *back*? When were WE, IFC, Sundance and Fuse in HD?


No I meant they reverted to the listing that had them listed as SD, and when/if they finally got it in HD it would only take a minor edit.

So basically what that agent quoted for the listing was the same one we had seen for years.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> I'm not seeing WE TV, IFC but I'm seeing FUSE SD. What's up with that?


We is channel 128 (was a duplicate of Style), IFC is 298. Check the locks on your receiver. It is possible that you locked out the channels when they were something else. (I've done that.) Or they are not in the channel list you are using (if you are not in All Channels or My Channels in the guide).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Inkosaurus said:


> No I meant they reverted to the listing that had them listed as SD, and when/if they finally got it in HD it would only take a minor edit.


OK, because what you said was:


Inkosaurus said:


> Then when/if the HD would have come back all they would have to do is make an incredibly minor edit.


Clearly referring to the HD "coming back".

BTW: IFC was not a revert. It was on channel 131 in SD. Fuse was also not a revert. It was on channel 158 in SD. Only We got the old channel back.


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