# DIRECTV Nomad



## Scott Kocourek

I got an email today from Directv and it asked for my feedback, when I clicked on the link I was sent to a site to take a survey.

The survey asked questions about my equipment, my choice of smartphone and viewing habits. This is where is got interesting, the next group of questions were for something called Nomad, the ability to watch my recorded dvr content anywhere. 

You could load a show onto your computer or phone and take it with you, watch it on an airplane. You could also stream content over a broadband connection and watch it on your phone or computer. 

This sounds like it would be awesome!! Hopefully it doesn't take too long to implement.


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## kiknwing

This would be great, but one question. How much would this cost per month? If it's only a couple of bucks fine, but $10+ would be to much, but like everyone I would prefer free.


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## Go Beavs

That sounds pretty cool! That would come in really handy while traveling.

I hope you answered, "hell yeah I want that!"


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## Scott Kocourek

kiknwing said:


> This would be great, but one question. How much would this cost per month? If it's only a couple of bucks fine, but $10+ would be to much, but like everyone I would prefer free.


There were questions addressing this too, they ranged from high up front costs and very low monthly fees to no upfront costs to high monthly fees.


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## Scott Kocourek

Go Beavs said:


> That sounds pretty cool! That would come in really handy while traveling.
> 
> I hope you answered, "hell yeah I want that!"


Yeah, it sounds like a great product. I think this may address the problem of only having recordings on your dvr, the recordings must now be tied to your account instead of the receiver.

This may make a lot of people happy.


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## smiddy

I got the same survey! I am psyched, this sounds like a very kewl addition to DirecTV's line up. I had a hard time with the dollar amounts being surveyed though.


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## Scott Kocourek

smiddy said:


> I got the same survey! I am psyched, this sounds like a very kewl addition to DirecTV's line up. I had a hard time with the dollar amounts being surveyed though.


Yeah, me too. I actually answered no to all of the pricing questions.


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## Mike Bertelson

I think I deleted that survey. I get a lot of them and I never answer...you'd think they would stop sending them to me. :grin:

Mike


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## dcowboy7

Nomad was already in a Star Trek: TOS episode "The Changeling":


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## Doug Brott

Nomad has so many meaning over the years .. Is this "To Go" for all shows? Could be interesting. Thanks for the info scottandregan.


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## Satelliteracer

Yes, some very cool things coming very soon.


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## harsh

The return of the ill-fated DIRECTV2Go. Hopefully they pick the right handhelds this time.


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## Satelliteracer

harsh said:


> The return of the ill-fated DIRECTV2Go. Hopefully they pick the right handhelds this time.


I would say very different from 2Go in many ways. IMO


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## Alan Gordon

scottandregan said:


> Yeah, it sounds like a great product. I think this may address the problem of only having recordings on your dvr, the recordings must now be tied to your account instead of the receiver.
> 
> This may make a lot of people happy.


I'm actually much more interested in this possibility if one indeed has the option of MOVING content over to an external device (iPhone, Droid, iPad, Netbook) versus streaming the content over the internet... only if it's free though....

If indeed this causes DirecTV to tie recordings to one's account instead of to one's specific receiver, I'll be EXTREMELY happy! 

~Alan


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## davring

The Slingbox lets me stream to any computer or my iPhone. A capture card lets me take any DVR content and convert it to DVD or MPEG4 to put on portable devices. But to have all this incorporated into the DVD software would be fantastic. Send me the survey


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## Justin23

Satelliteracer said:


> I would say very different from 2Go in many ways. IMO


This makes sense considering Mike White has commented in interviews about not just watching TV when you want...but *WHERE* you want


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## Game Fan

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes, some very cool things coming very *soon*.


Uh Oh! There's that word again! :lol:


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## Scott Kocourek

Satelliteracer said:


> I would say very different from 2Go in many ways. IMO


Oh do tell.


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## JoeTheDragon

scottandregan said:


> You could also stream content over a broadband connection and watch it on your phone or computer.
> .


You need good upload for that and ISP like comcast cap you as well.


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## tonyd79

"JoeTheDragon" said:


> You need good upload for that and ISP like comcast cap you as well.


Not necessarily. I have a slingbox I used on Comcast. The upload wasn't that much and I came nowhere near any caps.


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## hdtvfan0001

Satelliteracer said:


> I would say very different from 2Go in many ways. IMO


Indeed. More of a *reinvention* than a "return".


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## veryoldschool

davring said:


> The Slingbox lets me stream to any computer or my iPhone. A capture card lets me take any DVR content and convert it to DVD or MPEG4 to put on portable devices. But to have all this incorporated into the DVD software would be fantastic. Send me the survey


I doubt you'll see this as part of the DVR software, but instead be a box attached to the DVR, that will have an upfront cost along with a monthly fee.


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## Mike Bertelson

dcowboy7 said:


> Nomad was already in a Star Trek: TOS episode "The Changeling":


Well then I guess we "must sterilize"... 

Mike


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## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> I doubt you'll see this as part of the DVR software, but instead be a box attached to the DVR, that will have an upfront cost along with a monthly fee.


This would not be too surprising. That's sorta what the Slingbox is today (yeah I know it's not exactly the same thing). Would be nice if it was integrated into the STB somehow for simplicity (from a user perspective).


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## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> This would not be too surprising. That's sorta what the Slingbox is today (yeah I know it's not exactly the same thing). Would be nice if it was integrated into the STB somehow for simplicity (from a user perspective).


[not having any clue] Maybe a USB interface?


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## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> [not having any clue] Maybe a USB interface?


USB to what? If it's your computer, yeah, but if it's your smartPhone .. I'd think you'd use WiFi on your phone and Network from your STB, so why not use network for all transactions.

The intellectual property of how to do that would need to be added into the HRs as clearly it's not in there today, but it's certainly possible. The HR is just a computer after all.


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## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> USB to what? If it's your computer, yeah, but if it's your smartPhone .. I'd think you'd use WiFi on your phone and Network from your STB, so why not use network for all transactions.
> 
> The intellectual property of how to do that would need to be added into the HRs as clearly it's not in there today, but it's certainly possible. The HR is just a computer after all.


"The thought here" was that this box/device could integrate into the DVR like the AM-21 does through USB.


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## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> This would not be too surprising. That's sorta what the Slingbox is today (yeah I know it's not exactly the same thing). Would be nice if it was integrated into the STB somehow for simplicity (from a user perspective).





veryoldschool said:


> [not having any clue] Maybe a USB interface?


Not having any idea what Nomad is supposed to actually be, I wouldn't mind having some kind of sling like device; especially if it allowed me to do some house keeping like checking To-Do lists or some such thing...only instead of USB how about connected to the DECA cloud so it could access all the connected DVRs .

I don't know if that's what Nomad is intended to be but it would be very cool...I can dream can't I. :grin:

Mike


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## veryoldschool

MicroBeta said:


> Not having any idea what Nomad is supposed to actually be, I wouldn't mind having some kind of sling like device; especially if it allowed me to do some house keeping like checking To-Do lists or some such thing...only instead of USB how about connected to the DECA cloud so it could access all the connected DVRs .
> 
> I don't know if that's what Nomad is intended to be but it would be very cool...I can dream can't I. :grin:
> 
> Mike


The product didn't have a name when I heard about it, but was to be something very much like Slingbox + a PVR type device, where you could "take" recordings with you for something like on vacation and keep the kids busy in the backseat.
"How" this was to do any of this wasn't mentioned, but seems it would be a separate box/device. I don't think the DVR could do the downscaling to feed a recording over the internet.
[again] I have no idea of how this will interconnect to the DVR. Using the network may or may not cause problems with all the other features we have now, but it seems [to me] utilizing the USB port might be a way to alleviate any of these if they were a problem. By integrating into the DVR, "perhaps" the UPL of the DVR could be available to this device too. :shrug:


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## Satelliteracer

You will know soon enough.


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## Scott Kocourek

I am thinking this could be a very big deal, but then I thought that Directv would have made a bigger deal out of the MRV. I actually found myself stopping at their commercials to see how it was advertised and it just wasn't impressing. Having said that, it may be doing very well or better than expected and they don't need to do anymore, I have no way of knowing that. I still run into people that don't know that D* has a whole home dvr.

This has the potential to be even bigger than MRV. Portability is huge and I think this could put a lot of folks at ease by giving the ability to back up programs. Of course I'm only guessing but it makes sense that if you can move a show to a computer and watch it later that you may be able to move many shows.


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## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> Of course I'm only guessing but it makes sense that if you can move a show to a computer and watch it later that you may be able to move many shows.


What isn't clear yet is at what resolution this will be.


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## chrisfowler99

Satelliteracer said:


> You will know soon enough.


There's that "soon" word again.


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## Scott Kocourek

veryoldschool said:


> What isn't clear yet is at what resolution this will be.


Boy I wish I could take the survey again so I could pay more attention.


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## Steve

This June "Nomad" trademark registration shows up in a Google search.


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## loveshockey

scottandregan said:


> You could also stream content over a broadband connection and watch it on your phone or *computer*.


Isn't this basically Directv2PC?


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## Steve

loveshockey said:


> Isn't this basically Directv2PC?


DirecTV2PC only works on your home network, tho. It streams the recordings at their original resolutions and bitrates, which are way too high for streaming to a portable device outside the home. There's also a minimum level of hardware required on the client PC.


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## Jason Whiddon

Dang, Directv's gonna get me with another box and fee, but boy am I excited. I have a Sling Solo now, for fball games at work when Im on on the weekends. I bought it years ago, as an experiment, and love it. Would love an HD version, and the wife has an Droid 2, so...


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## codespy

Nomad also received UL approval on Sept 7, 2010.....here: http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073984372&sequence=1


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## Brennok

I wonder if this means they will allow TiVo to keep their TiVo To Go feature since that is basically what TiVo does..


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## Jeremy W

Brennok said:


> I wonder if this means they will allow TiVo to keep their TiVo To Go feature since that is basically what TiVo does..


It doesn't matter, since the new DirecTivo will never see the light of day.


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## Brennok

Oh trust me I am not waiting for it I have mine, I just find it funny DirecTV would finally add a feature they didn't allow TiVo to add previously.


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## dpeters11

Brennok said:


> Oh trust me I am not waiting for it I have mine, I just find it funny DirecTV would finally add a feature they didn't allow TiVo to add previously.


Things have changed at DirecTV over the years though.


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## Doug Brott

Jeremy W said:


> It doesn't matter, since the new DirecTivo will never see the light of day.





Brennok said:


> Oh trust me I am not waiting for it I have mine, I just find it funny DirecTV would finally add a feature they didn't allow TiVo to add previously.


Wrong thread .. Go here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=184206

And yes it will ..


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## bjdraw

Did anyone take screen shots of the survey? If so can you email them to me at ben at engadget?


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## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> I'd think you'd use WiFi on your phone and Network from your STB, so why not use network for all transactions.


If the media device requires transcoding or scaling, the source receiver wouldn't seem to be capable on its own so I would expect that add-on hardware would be required to do it on the fly.

I'm guessing that not all modern media devices are up to displaying full resolution TV streams.


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## SunDevil2012

Steve said:


> DirecTV2PC only works on your home network, tho. It streams the recordings at their original resolutions and bitrates, which are way too high for streaming to a portable device outside the home. There's also a minimum level of hardware required on the client PC.


The big issue with it that I had was that even on my desktop (AMD 965 BE, 6gb ram, etc) it was slow to load up. It was slow just to open up the program and recognize the receiver on the network. Which made no sense. The code was improperly optimized so that the interface itself was eating up so much resources, and it was bogging the performance of the program down. Once content was in the process of streaming it was snappier. But still, the fact that if I was trying to watch a live recording it was delayed by 30seconds MINIMUM was an issue. I was using the program as a way to get the 2nd tuner on my other TV without the need for a 2nd box.

I think the issue is they need to make boxes that accept 2 tuners and output them separately. And then in terms of content recordings. It should be that you can play with the files however way you want. DirecTV should have it's own file converter program built into an interface that accesses the recordings. Then from there it shows you the details of what the video quality is, etc. Then you can select a destination format. But because it's all TV it's going to have to have DRM, although I would hope not. But it would be very cool to have a 1080i recording from my receiver on my computer for archiving. That way less is stored on the receiver, which makes it faster.

But in terms of streaming content, they need to not look into streaming recorded content. They should look into making DirecTV available ONLINE. Make every channel your subscribed to available online (limit it to 1 viewer or something). That way if you have a fast internet connection you can still watch your MLB package without MLB.tv. *Or you can see the post-game on your way home from the game.* Think about the possibilities that having an online version of your directv service would bring. I would pay an extra $5-10 a month to get an online version of every channel as well. It would mean that even when I'm on vacation, or hell, if I'm in the car and I got a fast 3G or 4G connection, I can then catch all the action. It would be like "ESPN3 who?"


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## tpm1999

The question is, I suppose. How is the Nomad different than a slingbox?

1. Will it be cheaper? (non hd slingbox is pretty cheap). Or will it have a monthly cost?
2. Will it work with non-directv sources? If it is directv only, will it be able to change channels in a more eligant way than using an IR blaster?
3. Is it recorded shows only? Slingbox is live streaming.

In the end, I am looking forward to this...but only if it matches up nicely against a slingbox.


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## bakerfall

the answer to what Nomad is, and how it works, is likely explained on the web page of the company listed on the UL page.

http://www.morega.com/solutions_hardware.html

"Morega provides a reference DLNA/UPnP compliant hardware design which offers the ability to stream, side-load or place-shift content from multiple digital video sources to a wide range of devices including TVs, mobile phones, PCs, media players and flash-based media. The hardware repurposes video format, resolution and bit rate based on the target device while maintaining high video quality, all without the need for a PC."

Seems to be that it will move recorded content from the DVR to a mobile phone or laptop. It looks like it can run on the existing DVR, or via a stand alone box.


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## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> If the media device requires transcoding or scaling, the source receiver wouldn't seem to be capable on its own so I would expect that add-on hardware would be required to do it on the fly.
> 
> I'm guessing that not all modern media devices are up to displaying full resolution TV streams.


Yes, but if this is a "transfer and go" type of functionality, on the fly isn't really necessary. Now it's certainly true that generally speaking you'd want it to transfer quickly, so you might need additional hardware to make that happen at a reasonable rate. However, it's not a requirement. The STB could do it if the drivers were written. It just may not be practical.


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## Doug Brott

http://i.engadget.com/2010/10/11/directvs-nomad-might-satisfy-our-thirst-for-content-on-the-go/


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## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> http://i.engadget.com/2010/10/11/directvs-nomad-might-satisfy-our-thirst-for-content-on-the-go/


:yawn:


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## Scott Kocourek

Doug Brott said:


> http://i.engadget.com/2010/10/11/directvs-nomad-might-satisfy-our-thirst-for-content-on-the-go/





veryoldschool said:


> :yawn:


The article should have just directed everyone here, seems how that's where the info/speculation came from anyway. :lol:


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## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> The article should have just directed everyone here, seems how that's where the info/speculation came from anyway. :lol:


So you're saying/thinking this had something to do with it?  


bjdraw said:


> Did anyone take screen shots of the survey? If so can you email them to me at ben at engadget?


!rolling


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## JosephB

scottandregan said:


> The article should have just directed everyone here, seems how that's where the info/speculation came from anyway. :lol:


The article does link this thread as a source.


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## veryoldschool

JosephB said:


> The article does link this thread as a source.


 maybe you're seeing something I'm not, but I sure don't see or find any link or reference to this thread, or DBSTalk.


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## Scott Kocourek

JosephB said:


> The article does link this thread as a source.


I may be a slow reader, but.... I didn't see it.


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## Doug Brott

scottandregan said:


> I may be a slow reader, but.... I didn't see it.


Look next to the word "Source" at the bottom of the article


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## Scott Kocourek

scottandregan said:


> I may be a slow reader, but.... I didn't see it.





Doug Brott said:


> Look next to the word "Source" at the bottom of the article


That's pretty funny, I guess I am slow.:lol:

Really though, the link I clicked on didn't have it. It wasn't until I clicked on the "full experience" link did I see it.


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## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> Look next to the word "Source" at the bottom of the article


This is what I get from your link:


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## Scott Kocourek

veryoldschool said:


> This is what I get from your link:
> View attachment 23643


Click on the full experience link under the search bar.

That's the one I got too.


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## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> Click on the full experience link under the search bar.
> 
> That's the one I got too.


"Yeah" that was real rewarding too. 
And here I thought this place had some issues with *****ing posts. !rolling


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## Scott Kocourek

veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah" that was real rewarding too.
> And here I thought this place had some issues with *****ing posts. !rolling


Yeah, tough crowd over there. Imagine the names I would have been called for not being able to find the sources on the first try. :lol:


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## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> Yeah, tough crowd over there.


I live such a sheltered life here on DBSTalk. :lol:


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## Scott Kocourek

It's kinda funny at their reaction. (Ok maybe just a few.) This thread started because it sounds really cool, yeah it's only speculation for the most part but still something with a lot of potential. I don't know if anyone is upset that it got started but I haven't seen anything on this other than the survey, (and will probably be the last to see anything now) there was no NDA and it seemed like fair game.

I'm glad we can be pretty civil here.


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## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> The STB could do it if the drivers were written. It just may not be practical.


But it has to be practical, doesn't it?

Hashing in security is one thing but scaling and recompressing are well outside the application of these processors. Most of the HR2x series has barely enough power to do what they do and even some of that had to be artificially limited to prevent lock-up.


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## smiddy

If the NOMAD is coming soon, I would love to have one. I travel so much it would be perfect for me.


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## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> Most of the HR2x series has barely enough power to do what they do and even some of that had to be artificially limited to prevent lock-up.


What!? Where do you get this stuff?


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## Jason Whiddon

He's a resident, accepted troll, it fuels him.


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## Scott Kocourek

Doesn't the HR already scale 1080i/p down to 480i for older sets... How much bandwidth would it take to send the program out at the resolution it's already doing? How would 480i look on a smartphone, probably not too bad I would guess.


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## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> Doesn't the HR already scale 1080i/p down to 480i for older sets... How much bandwidth would it take to send the program out at the resolution it's already doing? How would 480i look on a smartphone, probably not too bad I would guess.


480p might be a better option, and "sure" if you want to tie up the DVR and use one of the video/audio outputs.
"How much"? Well I know my DSL can only do 768 kb/s upstream, which wouldn't cut it even for 480 i/p.
[again] I haven't seen anything more than your survey, so :shrug: who knows...
I would look at using the USB to connect this device since it isn't currently being used for much. This would mean the device would have to handle the work, but at the same time, this wouldn't impact the functions of the DVR.


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## smiddy

scottandregan said:


> Doesn't the HR already scale 1080i/p down to 480i for older sets... How much bandwidth would it take to send the program out at the resolution it's already doing? How would 480i look on a smartphone, probably not too bad I would guess.





veryoldschool said:


> 480p might be a better option, and "sure" if you want to tie up the DVR and use one of the video/audio outputs.
> "How much"? Well I know my DSL can only do 768 kb/s upstream, which wouldn't cut it even for 480 i/p.
> [again] I haven't seen anything more than your survey, so :shrug: who knows...
> I would look at using the USB to connect this device since it isn't currently being used for much. This would mean the device would have to handle the work, but at the same time, this wouldn't impact the functions of the DVR.


My h*TC* EVO 4G can do 720p native, so I'd be stoked to get some HD view-age on the road man. That would be totally wicked!


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## veryoldschool

smiddy said:


> My h*TC* EVO 4G can do 720p native, so I'd be stoked to get some HD view-age on the road man. That would be totally wicked!


"But" what's your home upstream speed?


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## Steve

smiddy said:


> My h*TC* EVO 4G can do 720p native, so I'd be stoked to get some HD view-age on the road man. That would be totally wicked!





veryoldschool said:


> "But" what's your home upstream speed?


And the Evo display is 800x480 native, so it would still be throwing away about a third of the pixels you send it for playback. I'm guessing the 720p spec is intended for capturing HD video? Or maybe for output to an external display?


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## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> "But" what's your home upstream speed?


I don't know, likely 512 kbps-ish. That would limit it too something else "if" it came from my network, they could allow shows to come from elsewhere, but they are, as the survey implied (I took it) allowing dowloads so you can buffer it by saving the show in you device so you can have some latency so long as your buffering. I'd be willing to increase my upload speed to T1 though, I think they have offered a free upgrade on my DSL. I would need to buy a new modem though, mine was only capable of 5 Mbps down, and for the T1 speed up you have to be able to do 20 Mbps down...but I'd pay the price for the new hardware to be able to get it.

Now, if you are unwilling to pay, I'd say a 16:9 format would be needed, since most devices now are that aspect ratio. The 4:3 480i/p would be limited in its format on that screen ratio.


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## smiddy

Steve said:


> And the Evo display is 800x480 native, so it would still be throwing away about a third of the pixels you send it for playback. I'm guessing the 720p spec is intended for capturing HD video? Or maybe for output to an external display?


Capture and external HDMI, yup...so connecting to a display would be kewl.


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## veryoldschool

smiddy said:


> I'd say a 16:9 format would be needed, since most devices now are that aspect ratio. The 4:3 480i/p *would be limited* in its format on that screen ratio.


 So what about wide screen DVDs, or the 480p OTA sub channels?


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## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> So what about wide screen DVDs, or the 480p OTA sub channels?


Yep, reverse idea there...


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## veryoldschool

smiddy said:


> Yep, reverse idea there...


As I posted earlier, I haven't seen/heard anything about resolution, video format, etc.
Bandwidth always seems to be an issue.


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## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> As I posted earlier, I haven't seen/heard anything about resolution, video format, etc.
> Bandwidth always seems to be an issue.


Yeah, but we always want more...or bigger...or faster...etcetera. Ok, at least I do.


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## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> What!? Where do you get this stuff?


A goodly portion comes from reading four years of rants regarding series link limits, slow guides and other widely perceived performance deficiencies combined with the widespread praise for the incremental performance improvements that the HR24 brings to the picture.

This overwhelming body of evidence convinces me that my own less than stellar experience with the HR2x series' performance was not an anomaly.


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## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> A goodly portion comes from reading four years of rants regarding series link limits, slow guides and other widely perceived performance deficiencies combined with the widespread praise for the incremental performance improvements that the HR24 brings to the picture.
> 
> This overwhelming body of evidence convinces me that my own less than stellar experience with the HR2x series' performance was not an anomaly.


Holy Cow!!???!?

Now there's a completely unsubstantiated leap. :eek2:

That's like saying that since Crows are black, and Crows are birds, well then that must be indisputable proof that all birds are black. :shrug:

Mike


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## harsh

scottandregan said:


> Doesn't the HR already scale 1080i/p down to 480i for older sets... How much bandwidth would it take to send the program out at the resolution it's already doing? How would 480i look on a smartphone, probably not too bad I would guess.


While the video outputs can be rendered at a handful of reduced resolutions, the content on the hard drive remains untouched. Most media devices require some sort of compressed video data stream; certainly a must for USB or network transfer. To take advantage of what the video output renders, an outboard digitizer is mandatory.


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## sigma1914

harsh said:


> A goodly portion comes from reading four years of rants regarding series link limits, slow guides and other widely perceived performance deficiencies combined with the widespread praise for the incremental performance improvements that the HR24 brings to the picture.
> 
> This overwhelming body of evidence convinces me that my own less than stellar experience with the HR2x series' performance was not an anomaly.



Right...because forums are a great way to judge a product. Who's going to post questions/concerns more...Someone with problems or happy customers? I'll give you a moment to ponder.


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## harsh

MicroBeta said:


> That's like saying that since Crows are black, and Crows are birds, well then that must be indisputable proof that all birds are black. :shrug:


The leap is that you're associating two attributes, species and color, and elevating it to the genus level. In my assessment the only metric is perceived performance.


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## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> The leap is that you're associating two attributes, species and color, and elevating it to the genus level. In my assessment the only metric is perceived performance.


Oh yeah, that's much less of a leap. :sure:


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## lotboy16

I love how we have gotten so far off topic. I believe there are threads about hrxx performance elsewhere. Lets get back on the topic of Nomad folks


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## veryoldschool

lotboy16 said:


> I love how we have gotten so far off topic. I believe there are threads about hrxx performance elsewhere. Lets get back on the topic of Nomad folks


:lol: Thanks for giving me a clue as to what my "ignore" is filtering out.
Given that Nomad looks to be a device that will connect to the DVR, it should only load the DVR to read the drive, and our resident [fill in the blank] dish sub, is still clueless and merely up to his normal tricks of stirring up the DirecTV side of this forum.


----------



## Doug Brott

lotboy16 said:


> I love how we have gotten so far off topic. I believe there are threads about hrxx performance elsewhere. Lets get back on the topic of Nomad folks


we're sorta there .. whether NOMAD as a software addition to the HR2x would be viable or not. I still say there's a chance because it doesn't have to be real-time .. however, one could argue if transferring video to a PC at even real-time is practical. Most people would want it to transfer an hour-long program in seconds (although minutes would generally be tolerable).

Harsh is stuck on the folks calling the receiver "slow" .. I disagree simply because the complexity of converting a video from one format to another really isn't that big of a deal when time isn't a consideration. I see no reason why the CPU couldn't do the conversion in the background with the video processors send real-time video to the screen. Is it the most effective method? Probably not, but the trade-off would be an external hardware (or technically software) device that again, could use the network for transfer or USB for transfer.

What will DIRECTV have? I don't know, honestly. I think some folks here have more information on this than I do. A USB connected hardware devices means that it has to be close to any HR that it wants to serve. Does this mean multiple of these devices in the house? I'd think so. A better solution would be a network connected STB that simply reads the data from the drives of any HR via the MRV protocols. It probably will have it's own internal HDD, but it might simply be a buffer device that converts from HR HDD to external device (iPhone, PC, etc.)

The problem with MRV protocols, though is that you can't transfer any faster than real time. So is there a different protocol in play that allows you to read across the network a 2, 3, 4x real time? a 1-hour program in 15 minutes might be a reasonable transfer time.

Portability is nice and there are times where I'd love to take it with me. For example, I could see myself getting on the treadmill @ the gym with a program loaded onto my iPhone. Would help pass the time and allow me to watch the program I want to watch rather than some crazy news show. Sling is great, but with no WiFi, I really don't wanna use my data allocation and it's not perfect over 3G.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> we're sorta there .. whether NOMAD as a software addition to the HR2x would be viable or not. I still say there's a chance because it doesn't have to be real-time .. however, one could argue if transferring video to a PC at even real-time is practical. Most people would want it to transfer an hour-long program in seconds (although minutes would generally be tolerable).
> 
> Harsh is stuck on the folks calling the receiver "slow" .. I disagree simply because the complexity of converting a video from one format to another really isn't that big of a deal when time isn't a consideration. I see no reason why the CPU couldn't do the conversion in the background with the video processors send real-time video to the screen. Is it the most effective method? Probably not, but the trade-off would be an external hardware (or technically software) device that again, could use the network for transfer or USB for transfer.
> 
> What will DIRECTV have? I don't know, honestly. I think some folks here have more information on this than I do. A USB connected hardware devices means that it has to be close to any HR that it wants to serve. Does this mean multiple of these devices in the house? I'd think so. A better solution would be a network connected STB that simply reads the data from the drives of any HR via the MRV protocols. It probably will have it's own internal HDD, but it might simply be a buffer device that converts from HR HDD to external device (iPhone, PC, etc.)
> 
> The problem with MRV protocols, though is that you can't transfer any faster than real time. So is there a different protocol in play that allows you to read across the network a 2, 3, 4x real time? a 1-hour program in 15 minutes might be a reasonable transfer time.
> 
> Portability is nice and there are times where I'd love to take it with me. For example, I could see myself getting on the treadmill @ the gym with a program loaded onto my iPhone. Would help pass the time and allow me to watch the program I want to watch rather than some crazy news show. Sling is great, but with no WiFi, I really don't wanna use my data allocation and it's not perfect over 3G.


Since there seems to be something UL listed implies a hardware component. I guess the question is whether or not it is a standalone device that interfaces with the DVR. I tend to think it relies on the same protocols as everything else; in which case it would be real time versus high speed dubbing(for lack of a better description).

I really don't like the idea of a USB solution. It would seem to me that a network (DECA?) device would be more practical. My reasons for this belief are that it has to connect to the home network anyway and if it were a USB then it could only access one DVR...ok, I suppose it might still have access to other potential DVRs via a USB port but that sounds difficult.

Ok, this is a mindless ramble but some of it makes sense. :grin:

Mike


----------



## lotboy16

I would say the best chance to have a well working system with this would be to have MRV installed. If you dont have MRV you would simply not be elidgable for Nomad, This would make sense in two rights for DTV. 1. they could setup a app for Droid/Iphone/IPad and others to stream strait from your existing network much like DTV to pc. 2. it would encourage more customers to get MRV to have Nomad so that everyone is networked for ease of troubleshooting issues and having speedy systems. Again if DTV does this say within the year or so it would put them on the cutting edge once again.


----------



## Michael H..

veryoldschool said:


> The product didn't have a name when I heard about it, but was to be something very much like Slingbox + a PVR type device, where you could "take" recordings with you for something like on vacation and keep the kids busy in the backseat.
> "How" this was to do any of this wasn't mentioned, but seems it would be a separate box/device. I don't think the DVR could do the downscaling to feed a recording over the internet.
> [again] I have no idea of how this will interconnect to the DVR. Using the network may or may not cause problems with all the other features we have now, but it seems [to me] utilizing the USB port might be a way to alleviate any of these if they were a problem. By integrating into the DVR, "perhaps" the UPL of the DVR could be available to this device too. :shrug:


DirecTV's marketing survey regarding the NOMAD makes sense, considering subscribers interest in DirecTV internet-delivered content, the emphasis/shift in internet-delivered content overall, and Echostar's acquisition/product inclusion of SlingMedia, not letting Dish use this to garner DirecTV converts.

Functionality (placeshifting internet streaming PVR) described in the NOMAD is available in the Monsoon (formerly Hava) Vulkano.
Had reservations about picking up one of these, based upon reviews and feedback... basically not ready for release (sort of still isn't), but Monsoon had a sale, the 16GB SDHC cheaper than the 8GB SDHC on Amazon, the 1TB cheaper than the 500GB on Amazon, so I decided to go ahead.

Extended (since January) working/living out-of-state in a hotel. Wanted the Vulkano primarily for its placeshifting capabilities for DirecTV HDDVR.
With the exception of the required (D-Link DIR-825) router port-forwarding/remote-server (PF/RS) configuration challenges, the setup is pretty straightforward.
The Vulkano (PF/RS) setup is supposedly much easier with a DSL internet connection. I wouldn't know. I'm using the hotel wired/wireless internet with a (no password required) IP auto-login page, and the home, where it will eventually go, has a (756k up/6Mb down) wireless IP with a proprietary (Cisco SPA2102) ethernet VoIP adapter.

The good... Monsoon has a lot of bad reviews for their tech support. My one experience, when I called in, was pretty good. The guy definitely was knowledgeable regarding (PF/RS) issues/solutions. I felt confident, based upon our brief but detailed conversation, that he could get this fixed, but I elected not to resolve the (PF/RS) issues while still at the hotel, since I'd have to redo it when I got it home, and I don't have a DirecTV HDDVR here anyways. As it stands, it streams (pretty nice resolution) but I wouldn't be able to change channels/start/pause/rewind/schedule on the HDDVR (if it were hooked up to one), but could on the Vulkano's PVR. (would have to call and have my wife manually change channels on the DirecTV HDDVR, but I could schedule/record onto the Vulkano and playback later)...(my guess is she might be willing to do this a few times but would eventually quit answering the phone), so fixing the (PF/RS) issues when I set up at home is priority one. The mix/specific models of hardware impacts the router configuration... I want to ensure the Vulkano (PF/RS) remote access works, and doesn't screw up the VoIP adapter, etc.

I've got an 8GB/Blu-Ray/1GB-Video/2-HDMI equipped laptop connected (HDMI) to a 22" Visio M220NV 1080P/Internal WiFi/Internet Apps HDTV/2-HDMI (great HDTV by the way... ~$250 at Costco) for the road. Vulkano does not require a device at the remote end. Down/Load the Vulkano Media Player/Scheduler from their site onto the laptop and connect.

When I get this all setup at home and operational (end of November), I'll chime in again and let dbstalk know what works... and what doesn't...



Michael Hilley said:


> *Vulkano - New Sling/Hava type Placeshifting device - DirecTV HDDVR Remote PC Viewing*
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2583290&highlight=hilley#post2583290
> 
> DBSTalk.Com > Special Interest > Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2583260#post2583260
> 
> *Now for my questions...*
> 
> Thinking about getting one of these.
> I have zero experience with Sling or Hava, have not bought one because of earlier/present product shortcomings and reviews/feedback from users.
> I know it's early, but would like feedback from anyone who has picked up and used one of these... in particular remote PC streaming of DirecTV HDDVR and their network configuration.





Michael Hilley said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Especially the "_works as described._"
> 
> Came across a multitude of reviews on the Vulkano, however they merely parroted back the Monsoon press releases.
> One exception was this NY Times review:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/technology/personaltech/16pogue.html
> Paints a very unflattering picture.
> 
> My dilemma is that the Sling HD does what it's advertised to do, with the exception that it didn't do a very good job of streaming HD outside the local (home) network, when I tried it out.
> The Sling HD doesn't do all of the stuff I want (desirements)... and that the Vulkano purportedly does, at a lower price...
> 
> I *think* the Vulkano will get there... eventually... but this brings back memories of all the crap I went through with the initial release of the HR20's. Endless series of problems for what seemed like a year, but I can honestly say that I haven't had any issues the past few years with the (still have the same two) HR20's or the four HR21's, with the exception of that download a while back.
> So, I need to decide if I want to jump into the "beta test stream" and put up with the aggravation.


----------



## Steve

If the AVC decoders on the HR24's can also simultaneously encode (and I realize that's a big "if"), this may be a part of that processor that, to this point, hasn't been used. If so, I don't see any reason why they couldn't simultaneously transcode a low bitrate stream for output, no matter what else the box is doing.

Is anyone familiar with the HR24 chip set specs to know if this capability exists?


----------



## veryoldschool

MicroBeta said:


> Since there seems to be something UL listed implies a hardware component. I guess the question is whether or not it is a standalone device that interfaces with the DVR. I tend to think it relies on the same protocols as everything else; in which case it would be real time versus high speed dubbing(for lack of a better description).
> 
> I really don't like the idea of a USB solution. It would seem to me that a network (DECA?) device would be more practical. My reasons for this belief are that it has to connect to the home network anyway and if it were a USB then it could only access one DVR...ok, I suppose it might still have access to other potential DVRs via a USB port but that sounds difficult.
> 
> Ok, this is a mindless ramble but some of it makes sense. :grin:
> 
> Mike


As I keep posting [I haven't a clue :lol:], it will need to connect. How it will seems the debate. I like the USB method as it doesn't impact what the DVR is currently doing, so this would leave that part of the code unmolested. USB 2.0 has a decent bit-rate and at most would only be competing with a AM-21, if it was connected. This could mean this device has access to any program that the receiver does, so the DECA could be supplying it from other receivers. Exporting would seem to be limited to the local DVR if it was faster than real time.


----------



## Doug Brott

lotboy16 said:


> I would say the best chance to have a well working system with this would be to have MRV installed. If you dont have MRV you would simply not be elidgable for Nomad, This would make sense in two rights for DTV. 1. they could setup a app for Droid/Iphone/IPad and others to stream strait from your existing network much like DTV to pc. 2. it would encourage more customers to get MRV to have Nomad so that everyone is networked for ease of troubleshooting issues and having speedy systems. Again if DTV does this say within the year or so it would put them on the cutting edge once again.


I'll grant that we don't know much right now, but if this were to take another year from now to see the light, I might have to start calling DIRECTV .. well, TiVo. I think we'll see something long before 12 months from now.


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> As I keep posting [I haven't a clue :lol:], it will need to connect. How it will seems the debate. I like the USB method as it doesn't impact what the DVR is currently doing, so this would leave that part of the code unmolested. USB 2.0 has a decent bit-rate and at most would only be competing with a AM-21, if it was connected. This could mean this device has access to any program that the receiver does, so the DECA could be supplying it from other receivers. Exporting would seem to be limited to the local DVR if it was faster than real time.


Network connected == whole home device

USB connected == single device

If I were DIRECTV, I'd want whole-home connectivity (and I'd require whole home service to boot). Not only does it give you place shifting technology .. it gives it to you for all of your HRs in the house, not just the one you're connected to.

Now .. that being said .. it might be reasonable to have one device connected to one STB and allow access to all playlists in the house. The big question is .. is this a "to go" technology or a streaming technology. .. :shrug:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> Network connected == whole home device
> 
> USB connected == single device
> 
> If I were DIRECTV, I'd want whole-home connectivity (and I'd require whole home service to boot). Not only does it give you place shifting technology .. it gives it to you for all of your HRs in the house, not just the one you're connected to.
> 
> Now .. that being said .. it might be reasonable to have one device connected to one STB and allow access to all playlists in the house. The big question is .. is this a "to go" technology or a streaming technology. .. :shrug:


I agree; regardless of how such a device is connected, it needs to have access to the full MRV playlist. In my mind that means whole home connectivity too but I guess you can get that from a single USB connection. VOS may be right but I just don't really like it. (the USB connection that is :grin

Mike


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> Network connected == whole home device
> 
> USB connected == single device


This is where I'm way out of my league, but couldn't a USB device query the receiver for its UPL and then pull recordings from other DRVs?


----------



## lotboy16

Doug Brott said:


> Network connected == whole home device
> 
> USB connected == single device
> 
> If I were DIRECTV, I'd want whole-home connectivity (and I'd require whole home service to boot). Not only does it give you place shifting technology .. it gives it to you for all of your HRs in the house, not just the one you're connected to.
> 
> Now .. that being said .. it might be reasonable to have one device connected to one STB and allow access to all playlists in the house. The big question is .. is this a "to go" technology or a streaming technology. .. :shrug:


Seems to me that i agree that DTV would want to require the MRV setup. This would take out the middle man (usb device) and would force more customers to step up to MRV. Plus all they would need would be a APP for phones and IPad devices. The APP development would be much easier and faster than any engineering for a external device.


----------



## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> This is where I'm way out of my league, but couldn't a USB device query the receiver for its UPL and then pull recordings from other DRVs?


You mean through the requesting DVR to the other DVR, seems reasonable to me. :shrug:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

veryoldschool said:


> This is where I'm way out of my league, but couldn't a USB device query the receiver for its UPL and then pull recordings from other DRVs?


From a purely technical standpoint, I gotta believe it possible.

How practical is it? 

Not to mention that if it didn't, you'd need a Nomad for each DVR and that's just nuts. :grin:

Mike


----------



## veryoldschool

Almost all of my posts here have been purely "blue sky"/blank sheet of paper.

Not knowing any technical problems, I'd want this to be available to as large a market as I could and to integrate into as many different setups as it could.

This may be why I'm focused on the USB aspect. 

If I can pass off all requests to the DVR and have it sort out what's available, it doesn't matter whether it is networked, has MRV, or not. This would all be handled by the DVR and what it is authorized for.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

veryoldschool said:


> Almost all of my posts here have been purely "blue sky"/blank sheet of paper.
> 
> Not knowing any technical problems, I'd want this to be available to as large a market as I could and to integrate into as many different setups as it could.
> 
> This may be why I'm focused on the USB aspect.
> 
> If I can pass off all requests to the DVR and have it sort out what's available, it doesn't matter whether it is networked, has MRV, or not. This would all be handled by the DVR and what it is authorized for.


I've been looking at it from my perspective but I can see why USB could be available to a wider subscriber base. Plug and go...I guess that means there will be some way to access the UPL via a USB addon...maybe.

Mike


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> This is where I'm way out of my league, but couldn't a USB device query the receiver for its UPL and then pull recordings from other DRVs?


The more I've thought about it, it doesn't really matter if it's USB or Network connectivity although since it needs network connectivity regardless, a USB connection could be considered redundant.


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> The more I've thought about it, it doesn't really matter if it's USB or Network connectivity although since it needs network connectivity regardless, a USB connection could be considered redundant.


[next step down the road] Once you've sorted out the streaming aspect, what do you do if you can export at a higher than real time rate?
"Seems like" one might keep this on their main DVR [for streaming] and then move it to "the kid's" DVR before going on vacation and download their shows to keep them "quiet" in the backseat.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

veryoldschool said:


> [next step down the road] Once you've sorted out the streaming aspect, what do you do if you can export at a higher than real time rate?
> "Seems like" one might keep this on their main DVR [for streaming] and then move it to "the kid's" DVR before going on vacation and download their shows to keep them "quiet" in the backseat.


High speed dubbing for the purpose of archiving? :grin:

Mike


----------



## veryoldschool

MicroBeta said:


> High speed dubbing for the purpose of archiving? :grin:
> 
> Mike


Guess that could be a "long vacation" :lol:

We still have no idea of what resolution this would be, and all I've heard about this was for DVD players, which would suggest SD.


----------



## EricRobins

I'm confused. I have had a Slingbox connected to an HR for 2 years. Now w/ MRV, what does NOMAD add?


----------



## dvrblogger

EricRobins said:


> I'm confused. I have had a Slingbox connected to an HR for 2 years. Now w/ MRV, what does NOMAD add?


it sounds more like directv2go where you can take content with you on the device not stream it from your home.
Sling is only useful if your upload and download bandwidth are good. I am in a hotel and dont get a good quality picture from my sling except early in the morning when most people aren't using the shared internet connection.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I'd love to load a few DVR'd shows on my laptop for night shift and weekend shift times.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

veryoldschool said:


> Guess that could be a "long vacation" :lol:
> 
> We still have no idea of what resolution this would be, and all I've heard about this was for DVD players, which would suggest SD.


We can record to DVD recorders now so what does Nomad provide that would be different? :shrug:

Mike


----------



## veryoldschool

MicroBeta said:


> We can record to DVD recorders now so what does Nomad provide that would be different? :shrug:
> 
> Mike


Given that a Sling & either a PVR or DVD recorder will do everything that I've heard Nomad will offer [and without a monthly fee] :shrug:

Oh Yeah, it won't be a revenue stream for DirecTV. :lol:


----------



## Steve

veryoldschool said:


> Given that a Sling & either a PVR or DVD recorder will do everything that I've heard Nomad will offer [and without a monthly fee] :shrug:
> 
> Oh Yeah, it won't be a revenue stream for DirecTV. :lol:


It should be a nice retention/acquisition feature for DirecTV, if they price it so there's a low cost of entry. A Slingbox is a couple of hundred bucks, no? And Sling is unsupported by DirecTV CSR's, for non-technical subscribers who may need assistance.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

If it gives me the option to load tv shows onto my laptop, Ill get it.


----------



## tonyd79

"elwaylite" said:


> If it gives me the option to load tv shows onto my laptop, Ill get it.


Yeah. I've got sling so no big deal there. But download to laptop or iPhone would be cool. Although the control maybe better than the iPhone sling app.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve said:


> It should be a nice retention/acquisition feature for DirecTV, if they price it so there's a low cost of entry. A Slingbox is a couple of hundred bucks, no? And Sling is unsupported by DirecTV CSR's, for non-technical subscribers who may need assistance.


Slings were about $130,
the Hauppauge HD PVR is $200,
and a DVD recorder about $70.
"So yes" the Nomad could start out cheaper, but after about a year of monthly fees, you should find the break even point and then you'd be ahead with using these products over the Nomad, "IMO".


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I don't mind a small monthly fee for something that is worthwhile, having said that I would certainly have to see how this works. When the debate over the MRV fee was going on while it was in beta I don't think I ever had a problem with a few bucks a month because it turned my receivers into one big dvr and it's worth every penny. Now will the Nomad product be as worthwhile we will see. I have never used a slingbox so I will have nothing to compare it to, but if it is user friendly and doesn't take a bunch of planning ahead of time to use I will probably own one/subscribe. 

I am still very excited about this.


----------



## veryoldschool

scottandregan said:


> I don't mind a small monthly fee for something that is worthwhile, having said that I would certainly have to see how this works... Now will the Nomad product be as worthwhile we will see...
> 
> I am still very excited about this.


Gee, I wonder why they asked you to take a survey? :lol: :lol:


----------



## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> Gee, I wonder why they asked you to take a survey? :lol: :lol:


Then I have to wonder why they asked me to take it too then. :scratchin I mean, I am on the go a great deal, but I'm not one of their Premiere Customers (pun intended). :scratch: Perhaps it was random?


----------



## mitchelljd

this sounds great. hopefully Directv will start being more open with the content their customers (myself included) subscribe for.

1- allow to device shift to iphone, macbook pro, ipad, android phone, other devices. 

2- allow to backup to BD disc or hard drive. just like betamax/vhs, we need ability to record content we subscribe for.


----------



## harsh

mitchelljd said:


> 1- allow to device shift to iphone, macbook pro, ipad, android phone, other devices.
> 
> 2- allow to backup to BD disc or hard drive. just like betamax/vhs, we need ability to record content we subscribe for.


Don't count on it. There seems to be a very strong push for paying for every copy of something that you get.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> Don't count on it. There seems to be a very strong push for paying for every copy of something that you get.


There _seems_ to be a strong push?? Seriously, what are you talking about? :scratchin

This is a new concept for you? The recording and movie industries have been "pushing" this for as long as I can remember. Heck, I remember when the record companies were saying that cassette tapes would put them out of business...then again with CD-Rs. What about the movie industry and Betamax/VHS? How old is the "Betamax" case now..26 years? :nono:

Personally, I think the danger is in what is considered a service provider versus a media company. As those lines get blurred when providers get into the content bussiness, so will our ability to record stuff. Hopefully Nomad will give us some additional flexibility in recording. If not then what is the purpose of such a device? :shrug:

Mike


----------



## Scott Kocourek

harsh said:


> Don't count on it. There seems to be a very strong push for paying for every copy of something that you get.


Really? I took the survey and didn't see anything about a Pay Per Use. The survey asked about large upfront costs and small monthly fees vs. small upfront costs and large monthly fees. Nothing in the survey about paying each time you transferred something.

Maybe DirecTV called and let you in on some extra info??


----------



## smiddy

mitchelljd said:


> 2- allow to backup to BD disc or hard drive. just like betamax/vhs, we need ability to record content we subscribe for.


Do you mean other than the DVR itself? :scratchin


----------



## Mike Bertelson

I guess the question is “what does it do?”.

Now, if Nomad allows me to transfer an HD program to a laptop or mobile device then it might be worth looking at...maybe. :grin: 

However, if it’s not in a standard video format such that it needs a program/app to view said recording, then they can put some restrictions such as an expiration date ala PPV. Possibly not such a good thing if you’re putting some stuff on laptop or mobile device to take on vacation

If it allows me unrestricted access to SD content, then it’s not such a good thing. I can do that now. Heck with one piece of hardware I can record HD content via component...which leads back to “What does it do?”. 

Mike


----------



## Scott Kocourek

What about the ability to be away from home with your laptop or smartphone, log onto DirecTV's website, schedule a recording, then access your DVR remotely and then stream it to your phone/laptop and watch something that way. Almost live tv where ever you can get wifi or 3g. 

I can live with a lower resolution on my phone because the screen is so small I don't think it would matter, on my laptop I might want something better. So back to the what if's.. If I want better can I send it to my computer with a slow upload speed and just wait for it to buffer or would it stream only? When you are at home and want to load something on via your network it should go pretty fast but when you are away with limitations can it still be done?


----------



## dvrblogger

veryoldschool said:


> Slings were about $130,
> the Hauppauge HD PVR is $200,
> and a DVD recorder about $70.
> "So yes" the Nomad could start out cheaper, but after about a year of monthly fees, you should find the break even point and then you'd be ahead with using these products over the Nomad, "IMO".


setting up a dvd recorder requires you to tie up your dvr 1 hour for a 1hour show and is not convenient everytime you want to take a show with you. If the fee is reasonable then most of us would be happy to pay for the convenience and the saved time and effort.


----------



## Steve

dvrblogger said:


> setting up a dvd recorder requires you to tie up your dvr 1 hour for a 1hour show and is not convenient everytime you want to take a show with you. If the fee is reasonable then most of us would be happy to pay for the convenience and the saved time and effort.


Bingo. The beauty of Sling is that you can stream shows already stored on your DVR, or LIVE TV, if it's a game, e.g. Last thing I'd want to do is tie up the DVR ripping shows in advance I may or may not watch remotely.


----------



## harsh

scottandregan said:


> Really? I took the survey and didn't see anything about a Pay Per Use.


Don't confuse "per copy" with "per use".


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> Don't confuse "per copy" with "per use".


This sounds like a subscription service .. my guess is your definition of "per use" is much different than the real world definition. Otherwise you pricing comments don't really make sense.


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> This sounds like a subscription service .. my guess is your definition of "per use" is much different than the real world definition. Otherwise you pricing comments don't really make sense.


Once again, I can only tell from the missing post numbers, that "someone" who knows absolutely nothing about this topic, has again posted more nonsense. :nono:
Since I have seen the survey, I will confirm any pricing questions had NOTHING to do with "per use fees".
Up front costs, monthly fees, and programing commitment lengths were the focus.

As to the functions of this, viewing recordings on a smartphone [wireless] and viewing recordings "stored" when wireless wasn't available is the focus.
I didn't get to ask [or did I see] if transferring programs will be in HD or at higher rates than real-time.
If this/these will be part of this, then it will do something other devices don't currently do.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

harsh said:


> Don't confuse "per copy" with "per use".


Please clarify then. Are you saying I would have to pay to put it on my laptop, and then I decide I might want it on my phone too that DirecTV will charge me for two copies?

If you have the ability to stream with this device would that be considered a "copy" or a "use"?

Where did you get your info? How did you hear about a strong push on how DirecTV plans to implement their pricing on this?


----------



## Richierich

Sounds like Nomad may be a Slingbox type application with a hardware unit capable of streaming via the Internet such as my Slingbox Pro HD does.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Sounds like Nomad may be a Slingbox type application with a hardware unit capable of streaming via the Internet such as my Slingbox Pro HD does.


Yes and no, unless you can use your sling to view recordings without an internet connection.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> Yes and no, unless you can use your sling to view recordings without an internet connection.


Well, how can the Nomad send Video to your Cell Phone or Ipad without an Internet Connection??? 

If it was just a way of Downloading Content to a Hard Drive then it would be just like a DVD Player and we can do that now in SD.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Man, this is hard for some to grasp. 

Ok, so, I'm going to get on the plane in 2 hours, and I want to watch some tv shows. I load Sons of Anarchy, Supernatural, and CSI Miami to my laptop, from my HDDVR, and take them with me. Sling can't do this, and neither can a DVD player.

I'd love this, because when Im on night shift and weekends, things are slow. I could take a couple of tv shows to go.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

elwaylite said:


> Man, this is hard for some to grasp.
> 
> Ok, so, I'm going to get on the plane in 2 hours, and I want to watch some tv shows. I load Sons of Anarchy, Supernatural, and CSI Miami to my laptop, from my HDDVR, and take them with me. Sling can't do this, and neither can a DVD player.
> 
> I'd love this, because when Im on night shift and weekends, things are slow. I could take a couple of tv shows to go.


I don't think it's so much that it's hard to grasp as it is that we're unclear what the actual feature set will be....although, I like yours and it's what I hope it will be. 

Mike


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yeah, I just don't get why folks keep bringing up sling and dvd players. I have Sling, and if they make the same thing, then no need for it. But Satracer has hinted on this "to go" and "tv anywhere" stuff in negotiations. I think there is more than Sling, which means moving it to another device.


----------



## veryoldschool

elwaylite said:


> Yeah, I just don't get why folks keep bringing up sling and dvd players. I have Sling, and if they make the same thing, then no need for it. But Satracer has hinted on this "to go" and "tv anywhere" stuff in negotiations. I think there is more than Sling, which means moving it to another device.


Playback without an internet connection IS a feature of this, along with playback with internet.
"IF" this isn't anything more than SD playback, "Then" it won't be much more than other options currently available.
I guess I'm one of those "folks" who keep bring up sling, DVD, & PVRs, as NOTHING has been given out about whether this will do more than them, or not, and while taking the survey, this was what I was wondering.
Sometimes one gets a clue about something by what "isn't said" about it, but since this is by "omission", it may turn out not to be the case.


----------



## Jeremy W

elwaylite said:


> Ok, so, I'm going to get on the plane in 2 hours, and I want to watch some tv shows.


Pay $10 for GoGo In-flight Internet. Problem solved. :lol:


----------



## Jason Whiddon

veryoldschool said:


> Playback without an internet connection IS a feature of this, along with playback with internet.
> "IF" this isn't anything more than SD playback, "Then" it won't be much more than other options currently available.
> I guess I'm one of those "folks" who keep bring up sling, DVD, & PVRs, as NOTHING has been given out about whether this will do more than them, or not, and while taking the survey, this was what I was wondering.
> Sometimes one gets a clue about something by what "isn't said" about it, but since this is by "omission", it may turn out not to be the case.


If it does not offer tv shows loaded onto mobile devices or laptops, it's useless as far as Im concerned.


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> Pay $10 for GoGo In-flight Internet. Problem solved. :lol:


Is there any Bandwidth Cap associated with GoGo Inflight Internet?

It seems like it will use IP Control to Control the DVR like the Cell Phone now uses to Schedule DVR Recordings but will have an External Hardware Device to Stream or Distribute the Recordings via the Internet Connectivity and then will probably have a UPL so you can Select and View Recordings on any and all DVRs connected to your WHDVR Network.

This is my Guess and maybe in the Future you will be able to View not Only Your Recordings but also Live Content as well using your Cell Phone or IPAD or PC, etc.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> Pay $10 for GoGo In-flight Internet. Problem solved. :lol:


Can you also get that for the kids in the backseat when you're driving off to grandma's house for the holidays?


----------



## Richierich

If you have an Internet Connection then you are Good To Go!!! :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> Is there any Bandwidth Cap associated with GoGo Inflight Internet?


No, but it's not terribly fast so it wouldn't be possible to consume very much anyway.


----------



## Jeremy W

veryoldschool said:


> Can you also get that for the kids in the backseat when you're driving off to grandma's house for the holidays?


Get a MiFi for that.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> Get a MiFi for that.


:lol: you don't know where Grandma lives :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

veryoldschool said:


> :lol: you don't know where Grandma lives :lol:


If Verizon doesn't have coverage there, I don't _want_ to know where Grandma lives! :eek2:


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> If Verizon doesn't have coverage there, I don't _want_ to know where Grandma lives! :eek2:


Even if they do, I'd guess a few still wished they didn't know where she lived. :lol:


----------



## PhilipDC

richierich said:


> Is there any Bandwidth Cap associated with GoGo Inflight Internet?
> 
> I tried to watch Netflix streaming with GoGo Inflight, but it stopped and started way too much. It also blocked me from accessing ESPN3 even with my Verizon log-in/password.


----------



## Jeremy W

PhilipDC said:


> I tried to watch Netflix streaming with GoGo Inflight, but it stopped and started way too much. It also blocked me from accessing ESPN3 even with my Verizon log-in/password.


Yeah, I would never recommend trying to use streaming video with it. The latency and throughput bounce all over the place. I was mostly kidding with my comment.


----------



## harsh

scottandregan said:


> Please clarify then. Are you saying I would have to pay to put it on my laptop, and then I decide I might want it on my phone too that DirecTV will charge me for two copies?


That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know this to be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being how it works.


----------



## smiddy

The survey didn't indicate how pricing was going to be done. It asked questions on how different pricing was better or worse according to the individual. Nothing is set yet.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

smiddy said:


> The survey didn't indicate how pricing was going to be done. It asked questions on how different pricing was better or worse according to the individual. Nothing is set yet.


Exactly my point, I am still curious how Harsh "knows" what way DirecTV is leaning on the pricing structure.

I apologize if Harsh is an employee of DirecTV or well connected to the inside and I am being rude, but otherwise how would he/she have any idea what way a company would be leaning internally?


----------



## 07A3

So living in the rumor world I am predicting that by next spring I will be able to stream content from all of my DVR's to my new LTE compatible Verizon Iphone. This is going to be great, because once I start paying the additional fee for Nomad, and the new "pay as you go" broadband fees from VZ I will be forced to move out of the house anyway.


----------



## Richierich

There will probably be a one time upfront Activation Fee to cover the cost of the External Hardware Streaming Device and a small Monthly Maintenance Fee thereafter.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> Exactly my point, I am still curious how Harsh "knows" what way DirecTV is leaning on the pricing structure.
> 
> I apologize if Harsh is an employee of DirecTV or well connected to the inside and I am being rude, but otherwise how would he/she have any idea what way a company would be leaning internally?


Harsh just puts out His Opnion as Fact when it is just His Opinion and alot of DBSTALKERs here on this Forum have him on their IGNORE LIST such as VOS because of his remarks.


----------



## smiddy

scottandregan said:


> Exactly my point, I am still curious how Harsh "knows" what way DirecTV is leaning on the pricing structure.
> 
> I apologize if Harsh is an employee of DirecTV or well connected to the inside and I am being rude, but otherwise how would he/she have any idea what way a company would be leaning internally?


He has a propensity to hypothesize through deductive reasoning. Most of his hypothesis have been wrong, but some are spot on too. Though to most seem "harsher" hypothesis than most are willing to accept. I'm not defending his actions, merely trying to help others understand where I think he comes from with his posts.

That said I don't think we will know anything for quite a while, likely January 2011 time frame, perhaps in time for CES 2011 would be my guess.


----------



## smiddy

07A3 said:


> So living in the rumor world I am predicting that by next spring I will be able to stream content from all of my DVR's to my new LTE compatible Verizon Iphone. This is going to be great, because once I start paying the additional fee for Nomad, and the new "pay as you go" broadband fees from VZ I will be forced to move out of the house anyway.


 I surely hope not. Time will tell though.


----------



## Richierich

We perhaps could be getting a Nice Christmas Present from Directv prior to the January CES 2011!!!

Too Bad Smiddy that you can't make it as we were looking forward to enjoying the 2011 CES Experience with you again but family counts first so have a great time with your son!!!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

scottandregan said:


> Exactly my point, I am still curious how Harsh "knows" what way DirecTV is leaning on the pricing structure.
> 
> I apologize if Harsh is an employee of DirecTV or well connected to the inside and I am being rude, but otherwise how would he/she have any idea what way a company would be leaning internally?


He doesn't know. He's actually a Dish subscriber. IMHO, he puts his opinions out as fact without any real justification. Just take what he posts with a grain of salt....or a whole shaker if need be.

Mike


----------



## smiddy

richierich said:


> We perhaps could be getting a Nice Christmas Present from Directv prior to the January CES 2011!!!
> 
> Too Bad Smiddy that you can't make it as we were looking forward to enjoying the CES Experience with you again but family counts first so have a great time with your son!!!


I know man, we had a great time last year. It was a great pleasure meeting you and HDTVfan0001 and all the other guys!


----------



## Hoosier205

MicroBeta said:


> ....or a whole shaker if need be.


Salt block, large bag of salt, salt truck...all these may be necessary in his case.


----------



## smiddy

MicroBeta said:


> He doesn't know. He's actually a Dish subscriber. IMHO, he puts his opinions out as fact without any real justification. Just take what he posts with a grain of salt....or a whole shaker if need be.
> 
> Mike


I need to lay off the salt, so now what do I do? :lol:


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> I need to lay off the salt, so now what do I do? :lol:


Just Ignore him!!!

Or put him on your Ignore List as VOS has done!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

smiddy said:


> I need to lay off the salt, so now what do I do? :lol:


When I have only one person in my ignore list, it might be a clue to how I have a salt free diet.

Even a broken watch can tell the correct time twice a day, the key is knowing when it is and if you know this, you have no need for the watch.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> Even a broken watch can tell the correct time twice a day, the key is knowing when it is and if you know this, you have no need for the watch.


Now that is Funny but True!!!

I have Updated my Opinion so here it is.

It seems like Nomad will use IP Control to Control the DVR like the Cell Phone now uses to Schedule DVR Programs but will have a DECA Connected External Hardware Device (MDR1R0-010) to Stream or Distribute the Recordings like Slingbox currently does and then will probably have a UPL so you can Select and View Recordings on any and all DVRs connected to your WHDVR Network.

This is my Best Guess and maybe in the Future you will be able to View not Only Your Recordings but also Live Content as well using your Cell Phone or IPAD or PC, etc.


----------



## tonyd79

harsh said:


> Don't count on it. There seems to be a very strong push for paying for every copy of something that you get.


Funny, most services (like the king of legal downloads, iTunes) allow for multiple copies before they start charging again. Same with Amazon. Odd that such a "push" wouldn't be done already by the trend setters.


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know this to be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being how it works.


Well, in that case I'd say you're just spewing a worst case scenario .. I'm gonna stick with "subscription" vs. "per use" and we can see which one of us has the right answer at the end of the day.


----------



## Doug Brott

MicroBeta said:


> He doesn't know. He's actually a Dish subscriber. IMHO, he puts his opinions out as fact without any real justification. Just take what he posts with a grain of salt....or a whole shaker if need be.


To be fair, it wasn't really clear what facts were involved, hence the probing. Consider harsh's words as worst case ..

So far, the history has shown that these types of services come with an added monthly fee. HD Service, Whole Home DVR Service, etc. If (as is likely) this is an external device, it will probably come with a "purchase price" which may or may not be a lease - really depends on a number of factors - and then a per-month fee to use it.

Whole Home Service has turned out to be a very positive service for DIRECTV. The new out of home service could be just as attractive to many people. Why limit the usage by charging per-use when you're likely to hook a lot more people via subscription.


----------



## smiddy

veryoldschool said:


> When I have only one person in my ignore list, it might be a clue to how I have a salt free diet.
> 
> Even a broken watch can tell the correct time twice a day, the key is knowing when it is and if you know this, you have no need for the watch.


If the hands are broken off the clock, that analogy doesn't work so well.


----------



## smiddy

Doug Brott said:


> Well, in that case I'd say you're just spewing a worst case scenario .. I'm gonna stick with "subscription" vs. "per use" and we can see which one of us has the right answer at the end of the day.


You're going to let us know at the end of today?


----------



## Doug Brott

smiddy said:


> You're going to let us know at the end of today?


All depends on your (or my in this case) definition of "a day."


----------



## Richierich

It is kind of like Satelliteracer's use of the word "Soon"!!!


----------



## Groundhog45

Lots of interesting speculation here. Since a specific device is mentioned (MDR1R0-01) I would agree that it is probably DECA connected and an additional subscription service. Lots of potential. I'll be interested in seeing what really develops.

And all this time I thought Nomad was an old Chevy station wagon.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

The challenge at this point is that there are numerous possibilities (a good thing) and multiple ways to use this all.

It's all good...so hopefully we see the fruits of this new set of "opportunities" in the near future.

I'm see potential in contrast to the current Slingbox setup I have now....so it will indeed be interesting to see what unfolds...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The challenge at this point is that there are numerous possibilities (a good thing) and multiple ways to use this all.


All I care about is getting my Recordings on my Verizon Droid or my PC without pixellation and hiccups.


----------



## Doug Brott

richierich said:


> All I care about is getting my Recordings on my Verizon Droid or my PC without pixellation and hiccups.


yeah, that happens to me also after a glass of wine or two.


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> yeah, that happens to me also after a glass of wine or two.


Nothing like a Great Glass Of Wine and I'll Drink To That!!! :lol:


----------



## Satelliteracer

Jeremy W said:


> Pay $10 for GoGo In-flight Internet. Problem solved. :lol:


What if you're flying to Hawaii or London, no GoGo service.


----------



## Doug Brott

Satelliteracer said:


> What if you're flying to Hawaii or London, no GoGo service.


How about a TakeTake Service? ..


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> How about a TakeTake Service? ..


Now that is a HINT!!! 

So I guess we will also be able to Download it to a Device and Take it with us to be Viewed on an Airplane or in a Airport while waiting to board a plane or in a Hotel Room!!!

Thanks for the Hint!!! :hurah:

All I know is that once more Directv may be hitting the ball out of the park for a Homerun leaving Dish behind in the dust!!!


----------



## xmguy

Remember folks. D* bought out what was left of Replay TV. They are the DVR people who designed a over the internet show sharing service and a early MRV.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> How about a TakeTake Service? ..


Did you say "Take-N-Tape" service...or the "Dynamate 8" service? 

Mike


----------



## smiddy

Satelliteracer said:


> What if you're flying to Hawaii or London, no GoGo service.


Or Australia... Man, I get some potential flights in that direction coming up...it would be nice to have something I could connect with.


----------



## HerntDawg

Was on flights to and from Las Vegas last week, had the in flight internet on both. I wasn't willing to pay $7.95 for two hours per flight.


----------



## HerntDawg

If I was flying to Australia, then $7.95 for two hours would be a bargain!!


----------



## Richierich

HerntDawg said:


> If I was flying to Australia, then $7.95 for two hours would be a bargain!!


I would bet the house that the Fee for using it while Flying to Australia would be a Tad Bit Higher than $7.95!!! :lol:

More like $79.50!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> How about a TakeTake Service? ..


Port-a-view-view...


----------



## smiddy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Port-a-view-view...


That just sounds nasty. Don't ever repeat that again, ok?!


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> I would bet the house that the Fee for using it while Flying to Australia would be a Tad Bit Higher than $7.95!!! :lol:
> 
> More like $79.50!!!


It's only $30 for a month of unlimited service.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> That just sounds nasty. Don't ever repeat that again, ok?!


Wie Wie.


----------



## Richierich

Anyone have a Crystal Ball that can tell us when this Puppy will Roll out???


----------



## dpeters11

richierich said:


> Anyone have a Crystal Ball that can tell us when this Puppy will Roll out???


After the new Tivo.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes, some very cool things coming very soon.


I was wondering when we would see this too, I can't wait.


----------



## xmetalx

dpeters11 said:


> After the new Tivo.


Is that a new code for 'never'? :lol:

(not saying that nomad won't come out, but that the new Tivo coming out anytime soon is a one in a million shot IMO)


----------



## Doug Brott

richierich said:


> Anyone have a Crystal Ball that can tell us when this Puppy will Roll out???





dpeters11 said:


> After the new Tivo.


wanna bet?


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> Wanna bet?


I'll definitely bet that NOMAD will come out before the Directivo comes out because I am not even sure that the Directivo will come out (YAWN) before I die!!! :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Well if the new TiVo is coming out in January 2011 we could possibly see Nomad in the next month or two. Which one will make people more excited, TiVo or Nomad? Which one will see more advertising?


----------



## Richierich

At this point with all that Directv has done to Enhance their DVRs and with WHDVR if I get NOMAD then I could care less about Vaporware called Directivo!!!


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> At this point with all that Directv has done to Enhance their DVRs and with WHDVR if I get NOMAD then I could care less about Vaporware called Directivo!!!


I was a TiVo fan for years, I had 2 SD Directivo's. When I got my first HR20 I actually hated it so much I went to cable after being a Directv customer for years, that lasted less than a year. Now after all of the changes made to the HR series, they are great. WHDVR has changed everything from what we record and where. When NOMAD comes out I can't wait to see how it is implemented, how user friendly it may or may not be, how affordable it is, and how it's priced. When the pricing came out for WHDVR it was a no brainer. There are just so many ways this could play out, time will tell.


----------



## Richierich

I don't think NOMAD will be that Expensive, probably like MRV and I can Handle that!!!

Just ICING on the CAKE!!! :hurah:


----------



## Draconis

Doug Brott said:


> Look next to the word "Source" at the bottom of the article


!rolling


Doug Brott said:


> wanna bet?


I think you know something you are not telling, but I'm betting we will find out with a little patience.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

As someone who is receiving an iPad on Monday, transferring DVR'd shows to it would very nice.


----------



## Richierich

Just how much is that IPAD costing you if you don't mind revealing that info.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I bought the $499 wifi one, because it's really for work and home(forums/email/Amazon, etc...). Being in a good size, public company, our company laptop usage policies have gotten wild, so i decided to get a laptop for personal use. I figured the iPad was worth a try, and instead of paying Amazon $2.99 for certain TV episodes in HD (AMC stuff), I'll pay iTunes $0.99 until Directv adds BBC and AMC to HD.


----------



## coolman302003

I wonder if this NOMAD will be anything at all similar to the device DISH sold a while back, *PocketDISH*? Apparently there website is still around: http://www.pocketdish.com/

If I remember correctly it wasn't that popular (maybe even an Epic Fail?), but obviously technology has improved probably 10X since then.


----------



## Richierich

I think you may be close to being correct as I have heard that it will be a Directv To Go Product so it would have to have the ability to store video and also probably to be used as a Netstreaming Device like Slingbox.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I think you may be close to being correct as I have heard that it will be a Directv To Go Product so it would have to have the ability to store video and also probably to be used as a Netstreaming Device like Slingbox.


You sure this won't be called NOTMAD?


----------



## harsh

coolman302003 said:


> I wonder if this NOMAD will be anything at all similar to the device DISH sold a while back, *PocketDISH*?


While the goal will be remarkably similar (to make programming available for playback on a hand-held device), I suspect that the DIRECTV NOMAD product will be more like a Slingbox that streams and less like the PocketDish that recorded programs from any video source or literally downloaded SD programming directly from select DISH DVRs. There may still be a download component in the NOMAD's bag of tricks.

The 2006 announced DIRECTV2Go would seem have been DIRECTV's stillborn attempt at duplicating the functionality of the PocketDish. While the hardware became available (RCA Lyra X3000 with 3.6" diagonal screen) five months after the introduction of the PocketDishes (2.2", 4" and 7" diagonal screens), the DIRECTV component never materialized.

The DIRECTV2Go trademark application was officially abandoned as of March 21, 2008 for failure to use it or extend the application.

http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/...owNum=2&rowCount=14&formattedDate=07-Aug-2008


----------



## Doug Brott

Let's just say that Sling & Nomad are a bit different in the way they work. Heck, the name Nomad kinda gives it away now doesn't it.


----------



## sigma1914

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just say that Sling & Nomad are a bit different in the way they work. Heck, the name Nomad kinda gives it away now doesn't it.


I see Nomad and think of motorcycle "clubs." :lol:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just say that Sling & Nomad are a bit different in the way they work. Heck, the name Nomad kinda gives it away now doesn't it.


The Nomad...one who roams, a wanderer. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

MicroBeta said:


> The Nomad...one who roams, a wanderer.
> 
> Mike


*Nomad*....*ROAM*ing wasn't built in a day.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

MicroBeta said:


> The Nomad...one who roams, a wanderer.
> 
> Mike





hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Nomad*....*ROAM*ing wasn't built in a day.


*Nomad*....I Wander when we'll see it. :hurah:


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just say that Sling & Nomad are a bit different in the way they work. Heck, the name Nomad kinda gives it away now doesn't it.


Therefore it will be a Directv To Go Product so it would have to have the ability to Store Video Programs that you have Recorded via your DVR and have Downloaded to your Nomad.

Maybe DIRECTV2U!!! :lol:


----------



## Game Fan

scottandregan said:


> *Nomad*....I Wander when we'll see it. :hurah:


Soon, according to Satelliteracer.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just say that Sling & Nomad are a bit different in the way they work. Heck, the name Nomad kinda gives it away now doesn't it.


Ya. Definitely sounds like a "to go" product. My guess is a streaming product would probably be called something like _DirecTV2U_, or maybe just _Direc2U_. My .02.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> maybe just _Direc2U_.


DirecTV would never take the "TV" off of anything associated with their TV product.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Nomad:



http://www.answers.com/topic/nomad



> 1. A member of a group of people* who have no fixed home* and move according to the seasons from place to place in search of food, water, and grazing land.
> 2. A person *with no fixed residence* who roams about; a wanderer.


Cmon iPad support!!


----------



## mattgwyther

Isn't DirecTV a TVEverywhere partner? Maybe Nomad is a streaming website not a load your dvr to your iPad device.... Although I'd prefer a load your dvr to your ipad device


----------



## Jeremy W

mattgwyther said:


> Maybe Nomad is a streaming website


Websites don't require or receive UL approval.


----------



## Richierich

Therefore it is a Device that does Streaming such as Slingbox but a little different.


----------



## mattgwyther

Very good point, forgot about that


----------



## RobertE

From what I can repeat:



> The new DIRECTV product, nomad, which will
> be available soon, allows the copying of
> recorded content from an HR2x / R22 to a
> mobile device, such as an iPhone or computer.
> It will let customers take recorded DIRECTV
> programming outside the home - commuting
> on the bus or train, running errands or waiting in
> line. Keep checking DIRECTV.com for the
> latest news and information.


----------



## Doug Brott

Robert .. That sounds about right.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

iPad iPad iPad!!!


----------



## RobertE

Doug Brott said:


> Robert .. That sounds about right.


Considering my source I sure hope so.


----------



## QuickDrop

Just saw this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_hi_te/us_free_online_tv

If legal Internet content becomes more limited, whose side should we take? The content providers or the television service providers?

In the name of "television everywhere," it seems like the viewer is losing current legal access to content so that cable and satellite providers can have the ability to brand that content. It seems like another example where DRM is used to make money off consumers who don't break the law but has no effect on people who do.


----------



## DogLover

QuickDrop said:


> Just saw this:
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_hi_te/us_free_online_tv
> 
> If legal Internet content becomes more limited, whose side should we take? The content providers or the television service providers?
> 
> In the name of "television everywhere," it seems like the viewer is losing current legal access to content so that cable and satellite providers can have the ability to brand that content. It seems like another example where DRM is used to make money off consumers who don't break the law but has no effect on people who do.


Actually, it seems to me that the content providers are realizing that if you give your product away, people will tend to stop paying for it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DogLover said:


> Actually, it seems to me that the content providers are realizing that if you give your product away, people will tend to stop paying for it.


Of course that's true...but I think they figured out that some time ago already.


----------



## DogLover

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course that's true...but I think they figured out that some time ago already.


I'm not sure they all have. After all, many of the broadcast networks provide their shows online for free, the next day or next week after an episode has been broadcast. (They often have minimal commercials, so they perhaps aren't completely "free", but nearly so.)

Until now, I think they were counting on the online viewing being an additional source of ad revenue without any downside. After all, if it doesn't reduce traditional viewers significantly, the cost/benefit works for them.

However, technology is constantly improving. Certainly with the addtion of Google TV, it may become easier to watch online content on a TV. If they begin to lose traditional viewers the cost/benefit may no longer be in their favor.

Obviously, we aren't there yet. But, I think the broadcasters are looking forward and preparing for that time.


----------



## QuickDrop

DogLover said:


> Actually, it seems to me that the content providers are realizing that if you give your product away, people will tend to stop paying for it.


We need to look at how "content" is paid for. Watch any early television show 40s-50s on DVD and you will usually see product placements. If you look now that type of advertisements have made a comeback. (30 Rock, and recently, Community, often use "irony" to mock the in-show ads while still including them.)

Just about all legal content had forced limited advertising on the viewer. A service like Hulu was so popular, despite the forced ads, that the parent company feels comfortable charging extra for it.

My basic point is that "tveverywhere," despite being heavily promoted, is essentially a backward step for the viewers of legal Internet content. We are now promised the chance to pay more for something that previously you didn't have to pay extra for and consumers are supposed to act grateful and excited.


----------



## Doug Brott

QuickDrop said:


> We need to look at how "content" is paid for. Watch any early television show 40s-50s on DVD and you will usually see product placements. If you look now that type of advertisements have made a comeback. (30 Rock, and recently, Community, often use "irony" to mock the in-show ads while still including them.)
> 
> Just about all legal content had forced limited advertising on the viewer. A service like Hulu was so popular, despite the forced ads, that the parent company feels comfortable charging extra for it.
> 
> My basic point is that "tveverywhere," despite being heavily promoted, is essentially a backward step for the viewers of legal Internet content. We are now promised the chance to pay more for something that previously you didn't have to pay extra for and consumers are supposed to act grateful and excited.


The point of NOMAD is for DIRECTV subscribers to take their content with them .. a "To Go" if you will. This thread isn't about non-DIRECTV services. So assuming there is a fee for this service, how is that any different than an MRV fee or an HD fee or a DVR fee? DIRECTV adds some value to their existing service and expects to be compensated for the use of that service.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> The point of NOMAD is for DIRECTV subscribers to take their content with them .. a "To Go" if you will. This thread isn't about non-DIRECTV services. So assuming there is a fee for this service, how is that any different than an MRV fee or an HD fee or a DVR fee? DIRECTV adds some value to their existing service and expects to be compensated for the use of that service.


All of that makes a whole lotta sense.

It would seem that if you get increased usage of the content, that added value would seem to be worth at least some kind of nominal charge....even if I wouldn't want to pay more for it...I can see how it could be justified.


----------



## TomCat

dcowboy7 said:


> Nomad was already in a Star Trek: TOS episode "The Changeling"...


Was that the one that they thwarted by telling it "I am lying to you right now" , which was a paradox that confused it so much that it blew its own brains out like in "Scanners"?


----------



## DogLover

TomCat said:


> Was that the one that they thwarted by telling it "I am lying to you right now" , which was a paradox that confused it so much that it blew its own brains out like in "Scanners"?


No, that was Norman in "I, Mudd".

Nomad was long range probe that got lost and merged with an alien probe. It merged its two missions and came up with "Exterminate everything but perfect life." It was defeated, because it confused Capt. Kirk with its creator, another man named Kirk. It was defeated by pointing out this mistake, proving that it wasn't perfect. It then self destructed.

Personally, I hope the DirecTV Nomad works perfectly. However, I hope they leave out the self destruct option.


----------



## cody21

(not having read through this very long thread) ... yea, this could be exciting - but not for a "FEE" .... Comcast & AT&T uVerse both offer this service for FREE as subscribers to their offerings.


----------



## veryoldschool

cody21 said:


> (not having read through this very long thread) ... yea, this could be exciting - but not for a "FEE" .... Comcast & AT&T uVerse both offer this service for FREE as subscribers to their offerings.


DirecTV's response would be similar to their MRV charge, the others have bundled it into the subscription price, so it isn't really "free", but you're paying for it whether you use it or not.


----------



## cody21

duly noted ... thanks for clarifying.


----------



## veryoldschool

cody21 said:


> duly noted ... thanks for clarifying.


It's not that I like it, but merely "their view".


----------



## Jeremy W

cody21 said:


> (not having read through this very long thread) ... yea, this could be exciting - but not for a "FEE" .... Comcast & AT&T uVerse both offer this service for FREE as subscribers to their offerings.


Comcast and U-verse do not offer anything like what I understand Nomad to be.


----------



## billsharpe

Quote:
The new DIRECTV product, nomad, which will
be available *soon*, allows the copying of
recorded content from an HR2x / R22 to a
mobile device, such as an iPhone or computer.
It will let customers take recorded DIRECTV
programming outside the home - commuting
on the bus or train, running errands or waiting in
line. Keep checking DIRECTV.com for the
latest news and information.

There's that nasty word "soon." If it's anything like the promised HBO HD channels from several years ago that could be a long time coming.

However, now that I just purchased an iPod Touch I can see some possible use for the feature.


----------



## Jeremy W

billsharpe said:


> There's that nasty word "soon." If it's anything like the promised HBO HD channels from several years ago that could be a long time coming.


The HBO HD channels were never promised to be coming "soon." They actually had a specific timeframe. It was just missed by a few years. :lol:


----------



## Rockermann

This is one new 'feature' I can't get excited about. Who wants to watch their favorite shows on a mini-screen? Sorry, I'll stick with the 126".


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Rockermann said:


> This is one new 'feature' I can't get excited about. Who wants to watch their favorite shows on a mini-screen? Sorry, I'll stick with the 126".


Kind of hard to watch that on a plane or train.


----------



## Rockermann

scottandregan said:


> Kind of hard to watch that on a plane or train.


Right. But, my point was if a program was interesting enough for me to watch, I'm not going to ruin it by watching on a 15" or smaller screen. I'd wait till I go back home to view it. I'd much rather wait for the better quality.


----------



## veryoldschool

Rockermann said:


> Right. But, my point was if a program was interesting enough for me to watch, I'm not going to ruin it by watching on a 15" or smaller screen. I'd wait till I go back home to view it. I'd much rather wait for the better quality.


While I doubt I'll be jumping on this bandwagon either, isn't the real point here: to give customers options they might want to use?


----------



## Richierich

Well, if I am at the Airport waiting an hour or more to board a Jet (my wife always gets me there too early as she is Paranoid about missing flights) well I can either listen to my IPOD or use Nomad to watch some things that I have recorded that are not Top Priority but still interesting enough to watch to pass the time of day until I board the plane.

Can't wait for Nomad!!!


----------



## Rockermann

veryoldschool said:


> While I doubt I'll be jumping on this bandwagon either, isn't the real point here: to give customers options they might want to use?


I never said it was bad to have this choice. Just that I wouldn't be embracing this particular option.

Conversely, you have to wonder what other features could have been developed using the manpower that went into this one.

Really though, ether way... this is not a big deal to me.


----------



## Richierich

It's all about keeping up with Directv's Competition while trying to offer the Customer things that he can use so they can Profit from it and I think that it Great and I will sign up for it when it comes out within 30 days.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

End of october?


----------



## Richierich

elwaylite said:


> End of october?


I would say within 30 Days!!!


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Rockermann said:


> Conversely, you have to wonder what other features could have been developed using the manpower that went into this one.


Why is that always an argument that is brought up?

Do people really think, there is a hard-cap on "man-power" that multiple things can't be worked on at once? Yes, there are limits to what can be done and prioritize are set, but is it just a case of "the feature I want, must have been pushed back for something I don't want"

Think of it this way:
One Woman, typically takes 9 months for a baby to be born.
If you had 9 women, would it only take 1 month?

You can only allocate so many resources, before: Too many chef's kicks in and the law of diminishing returns goes full tilt.


----------



## Rockermann

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why is that always an argument that is brought up?


All I was alluding to is that if this feature didn't take up resources it did (whatever that was), other features that are in the pipeline might have come sooner. Not they they wouldn't have come at all.


----------



## Richierich

Earl, as in any Corporation there are many departments and many teams within each department working on different things at the same time. I did it all of my life in the IT Industry.

I have wanted to watch a Golf Tournament that I didn't have time to watch or whatever and it would be Neat to be able to Download it to my PC and take it on the plane with me to watch when Delta shows a Movie that I either never wanted to see or have seen countless times.

So I will be One of the First to Sign Up for this Service as I think it will be indeed very useful to me.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

All I always find it amusing when one feels a certain advancement is useless, or a waste, just because they do not have a need for it. Also, why would said person hang out in the thread, except to just complain/whine?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

richierich said:


> So I will be One of the First to Sign Up for this Service as I think it will be indeed very useful to me.


Me too, if I have a device that is supported.


----------



## Richierich

elwaylite said:


> All I always find it amusing when one feels a certain advancement is useless, or a waste, just because they do not have a need for it. Also, why would said person hang out in the thread, except to just complain/whine?


AMEN!!!

Why Complain about something New coming out just because it isn't your cup of tea?

Is that Selfishness? I don't know but I don't care that they spent resources on Directv2PC because I don't use it or need it at this point but Hooray for those that want it or need it or can use it.


----------



## Rockermann

elwaylite said:


> All I always find it amusing when one feels a certain advancement is useless, or a waste, just because they do not have a need for it. Also, why would said person hang out in the thread, except to just complain/whine?


Whatever. I was just here partaking in the discussion as I had some time to kill and truly don't understand the usefulness of this feature. It's certainly not something I would use. And I never said it was useless or a waste.

I won't mess up your pretty thread from here on out. I hope you enjoy your Nomad when it comes.


----------



## spartanstew

Rockermann said:


> Right. But, my point was if a program was interesting enough for me to watch, I'm not going to ruin it by watching on a 15" or smaller screen. I'd wait till I go back home to view it. I'd much rather wait for the better quality.


Well, of the shows I record/watch, only about 20% of them are viewed on my 126" screen. About 50% are viewed on my 65" screen and the other 30% are already viewed on a 19" screen next to my computer. There's lots of shows that are interesting enough to watch, that don't need to be viewed in the theater. Besides, I can always connect my laptop to the hotels display when I travel and watch my recorded shows on a 50" display if I choose.

But I'm sure there'll be many I'll watch on the airplane.

Besides, screen size has nothing to do with it. It's screen size vs viewing distance that matters. Watching a 126" screen from 12' away isn't much different than watching a 17" display from 1.5' away (which is what it'll be on an airplane).


----------



## veryoldschool

Rockermann said:


> Conversely, you have to wonder what other features could have been developed using the manpower that went into this one.... this is not a big deal to me.


Not trying to point you out or to pick on you, but isn't this the way some feel if what does come out isn't "their cup of tea"?
These things are driven by marketing. They seem to think there is a big enough market to have worked on this. Maybe it will flop as the market survey was wrong.
Had this been something you wanted, then of course they spend the money for it wisely. :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I am going away again this weekend and it would be nice to have the option to watch some of my recorded programs. I can see how valuable this coould be for folks that travel a lot.


----------



## Richierich

spartanstew said:


> Well, of the shows I record/watch, only about 20% of them are viewed on my 126" screen. About 50% are viewed on my 65" screen and the other 30% are already viewed on a 19" screen next to my computer. There's lots of shows that are interesting enough to watch, that don't need to be viewed in the theater. Besides, I can always connect my laptop to the hotels display when I travel and watch my recorded shows on a 50" display if I choose.
> 
> But I'm sure there'll be many I'll watch on the airplane.


Well said and well stated as I agree that I take my small 10" DVD Player on vacation and when I don't have a DVD PLayer in the Bedroom and we want to watch a Movie in the bedroom I just hook it up to the TV and Bingo we have Movie Time.

It is always about "Time Shifting" and "Watching What You Want To Watch When You Want To Watch It" whether you are in an Airport bored and waiting to Board or at Lunch or wherever I think it will be Neat to have a Few Choice Recordings that I can watch when I now have the time rather than just read a newspaper or magazine or be bored.


----------



## spartanstew

scottandregan said:


> I am going away again this weekend and it would be nice to have the option to watch some of my recorded programs. I can see how valuable this coould be for folks that travel a lot.


Yep, the worst part about traveling 15 days per month is calibrating watched shows with my wife. Every night when we talk on the phone we have to determine what shows I'm going to watch live that night, what shows she's already watched, what can be deleted, etc.

When I get home I have to try and watch shows she's already watched (in order to delete them and clear space), etc. Being able to just dump a bunch of shows from the previous week to my laptop and knock them out while I'm traveling would really make things easier.


----------



## mitchelljd

i am curious how this will go myself. 

if Directv charges people to take the content they paid for togo. and if you can do it without streaming. ie, load it onto an iphone/ipad or laptop macbook pro. ie make it mac compatible. and maybe even do it while traveling,. so you dont have to be in the house while you access your content, but in a higher quality way than slingbox, which degradades pic quality.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

mitchelljd said:


> i am curious how this will go myself.
> 
> if Directv charges people to take the content they paid for togo. and if you can do it without streaming. ie, load it onto an iphone/ipad or laptop macbook pro. ie make it mac compatible. and maybe even do it while traveling,. so you dont have to be in the house while you access your content, but in a higher quality way than slingbox, which degradades pic quality.


How it works is yet to be determined.

If you get a stream to a mobile device, and THEN play the content, the image quality can be as good as local presentations would be for any other content.

Think Blu Ray player with Netflix download to a hard drive...


----------



## jefbal99

Depending on the fee and if Android is supported, I may use this feature a lot. My EVO has and HDMI out, that to an LCD at my family's place would allow me to DVR programs for Mom & Dad...


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> How it works is yet to be determined.
> 
> If you get a stream to a mobile device, and THEN play the content, the image quality can be as good as local presentations would be for any other content.
> 
> Think Blu Ray player with Netflix download to a hard drive...


While shifting content and then "taking it on the go" wouldn't be a problem, the idea of pulling 3.5 gigs/hour for streaming "full HD" seems nuts.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> While shifting content and then "taking it on the go" wouldn't be a problem, the idea of pulling 3.5 gigs/hour for streaming "full HD" seems nuts.


Perhaps so....

...then again...there's more than one way to migrate content...


----------



## Richierich

jefbal99 said:


> Depending on the fee and if Android is supported, I may use this feature a lot. My EVO has and HDMI out, that to an LCD at my family's place would allow me to DVR programs for Mom & Dad...


Just buy Mom and Dad an HD HR2X DVR and be done with it along with a Directv Subscription. Look at all they have done for you....


----------



## wuench

While it is encouraging that DTV is thinking about how to provide programming to mobile devices, the idea of copying an episode is a couple of years behind the times. I think trends are moving towards streaming from the cloud, which is more convenient than maintaining copies. 

I think most users with a mobile device will elect to stream an episode from a website, Hulu, Netflix, etc given the choice vs. copying files.

To compete in this area, DTV might consider streaming content from their servers based on what exists on a users playlist, this would also give DTV the ability to capitalize on advertising revenue by inserting their own ads, etc. If such a scheme could be realized legally....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

wuench said:


> While it is encouraging that DTV is thinking about how to provide programming to mobile devices, the idea of copying an episode is a couple of years behind the times. I think trends are moving toward streaming from the cloud, which is more convenient than maintaining copies.
> 
> *I think most users with a mobile device will elect to stream an episode from a website, Hulu, Netflix, etc given the choice vs. copying files.*
> 
> To compete in this area, DTV might consider streaming content from their servers based on what exists on a users playlist, this would also give DTV the ability to capitalize on advertising revenue by inserting their own ads, etc. If such a scheme could be realized legally....


While that view is "more innovative"...the fact is that many mobile device users have not found streaming to be a pleasant or reliable experience...so the jury is out as to that being the holy grail method.

Furthermore, with the recent trend of broadband providers starting to slice and dice and limit their bandwidth among users...this adds further impediments to that adoption as the long-term solution.


----------



## Doug Brott

wuench said:


> While it is encouraging that DTV is thinking about how to provide programming to mobile devices, the idea of copying an episode is a couple of years behind the times. I think trends are moving towards streaming from the cloud, which is more convenient than maintaining copies.
> 
> I think most users with a mobile device will elect to stream an episode from a website, Hulu, Netflix, etc given the choice vs. copying files.
> 
> To compete in this area, DTV might consider streaming content from their servers based on what exists on a users playlist, this would also give DTV the ability to capitalize on advertising revenue by inserting their own ads, etc. If such a scheme could be realized legally....


There are many ways to go, what seems to be missing in the market place is a (legal) way to take content with you. Yeah, "copying" episodes has been around for a while, but I'd think this device will make things much easier and include some ability to have the blessing of everyone involved, thus taking out any Copyright concerns.


----------



## Doug Brott

Also, streaming isn't always available .. Road trips, trains, planes .. stays in hotels where you choose to NOT get Internet due to costs or the Internet simply isn't up to streaming quality. Taking it with you might not be for everyone, but there are certainly a lot of people that would benefit from it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Also, streaming isn't always available .. Road trips, trains, planes .. stays in hotels where you choose to NOT get Internet due to costs or the Internet simply isn't up to streaming quality. Taking it with you might not be for everyone, but there are certainly a lot of people that would benefit from it.


Agreed.


----------



## Garry

Rockermann said:


> I never said it was bad to have this choice. Just that I wouldn't be embracing this particular option.
> 
> Conversely, you have to wonder what other features could have been developed using the manpower that went into this one.
> 
> Really though, ether way... this is not a big deal to me.


And if they develop another feature instead, there will be a similar post wondering why they didn't spend their manpower developing something like Nomad.

They will never make everyone happy.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Like most any other things in life...Nomad will not be intended for or perfect for everyone.

It'll be an added-value offering, just like NFL Sunday Ticket, MRV, DVR's and other things have been along the way to provide a group of users more enjoyment of their viewing experience. Some will love it, some won't need or want it...like almost anything else.

But those who will want/use it will more than likely really enjoy it.

Evolutionary, not revolutionary.

It's all good.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Furthermore, with the recent trend of broadband providers starting to slice and dice and limit their bandwidth among users...this adds further impediments to that adoption as the long-term solution.


AMEN to that. Alot of providers are Limiting their Bandwidth Usage and that is one reason that the Virgin MiFi 2200 is out of stock at most places because Verizon's Version of the MiFi 2200 has a 5 Gig Limit on it as well as other providers doing the same thing.

Also, if you can't get a signal such as on an Airplane then you can't view Streaming Media but with Nomad you would have the Recordings on your PC so you could view during a flight.


----------



## Sixto

One of the reasons that I still have a Series3 is just for the reason discussed in this thread ... taking some recordings mobile (plane, train, ...).

Today, I duplicate every important recording from the HR2x's on the Series3, and with TivoToGo can easily and quickly transfer recordings legally to laptop/mobile device before heading out on a road-trip. I never actually watch a Series3 recording on a TV. 

Very convenient, and looking forward to Nomad. Also acts as a good non-satellite backup.

Nomad may actually provide a savings opportunity.


----------



## Richierich

Sixto said:


> One of the reasons that I still have a Series3 is just for the reason discussed in this thread ... taking some recordings mobile (plane, train, ...).
> 
> Very convenient, and looking to forward to Nomad. Also acts as a good non-satellite backup.
> 
> Nomad may actually provide a savings opportunity.


Definitely Looking Forward To Nomad as when I am going to Hawaii every year (9 Hour Trip) I would just Love to be able to Watch a Golf Event or some Food Channel Stuff or whatever to help pass that time away.

Can't Wait To Have It But I Guess I Will Have To!!! :lol:


----------



## CuriousMark

Sixto said:


> One of the reasons that I still have a Series3 is just for the reason discussed in this thread ... taking some recordings mobile (plane, train, ...).
> 
> Today, I duplicate every important recording from the HR2x's on the Series3, and with TivoToGo can easily and quickly transfer recordings legally to laptop/mobile device before heading out on a road-trip. I never actually watch a Series3 recording on a TV.
> 
> Very convenient, and looking forward to Nomad. Also acts as a good non-satellite backup.
> 
> Nomad may actually provide a savings opportunity.


I use one of my S2 TiVo DVRs the same way for that reason and to get video podcasts since I have not found an equivalent capability with the DTV DVR. I suspect I might be able to do that with PC software somehow and post them to the DLNA server on the PC. But that will take work and the TiVo just does it.


----------



## calidelphia

Don't know if this has been mentioned...

Is this DirecTV's answer to Dish's slingloaded DVR???


----------



## Doug Brott

Don't know .. We don't have all of the information on this offering yet.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Dunno, this is maybe loading of a program, off the DVR, to mobile device/laptop/etc...


----------



## Steve

elwaylite said:


> Dunno, this is maybe loading of a program, off the DVR, to mobile device/laptop/etc...


Good point. One way to implement this could be similar to how DirecTV2PC works. Maybe Nomad is an app for your PC that allows you to pick a show from an HR2x playlist and transcode it into an MP4 file suitable for syncing to an iPod, iPhone or Droid device. A corresponding Nomad "player" app on the phone could handle DRM.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve said:


> Maybe Nomad is an app...


Look for it being hardware.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

veryoldschool said:


> Look for it being hardware.


This is the whole thing that bothers me. Not as much the fee, but another box. We have moved into a more advanced world, with a ton of boxes that do 75% of their job.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> Good point. One way to implement this could be similar to how DirecTV2PC works. *Maybe Nomad is an app* for your PC that allows you to pick a show from an HR2x playlist and transcode it into an MP4 file suitable for syncing to an iPod, iPhone or Droid device. A corresponding Nomad "player" app on the phone could handle DRM.





veryoldschool said:


> Look for it being hardware.


Well so much for _that _theory! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> Look for it being hardware.


That would make the most sense on several fronts...so its the only way to look.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That would make the most sense on several fronts...


"Several" implies at least three reasons, and I can't think of one that makes more sense than implementing it in software. I'm here to learn, tho, so please enlighten us.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> "Several" implies at least three reasons, and I can't think of one that makes more sense than implementing it in software. I'm here to learn, tho, so please enlighten us.


The fact that it received UL certification is really the only reason you need.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> "Several" implies at least three reasons, and I can't think of one that makes more sense than implementing it in software. I'm here to learn, tho, so please enlighten us.


- Copyright protection compliance
- Compatibility with multiple platform devices (laptop.smartphone, etc.)
- Direct access with network migrating content (for speed)

Solving those (among other challenges)...using hardware.

You're enlightened. :eek2:

But I'll let ya know for sure when I get one... !rolling


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> - Copyright protection compliance
> - Compatibility with multiple platform devices (laptop.smartphone, etc.)
> - Direct access with network migrating content (for speed)
> 
> Solving those (among other challenges)...using hardware.


None of these are particularly good reasons for using hardware over software. Especially the first two, one of which has already been solved with DirecTV2PC. Transcoding, which is not a new or unusal software technology, would easily solve the second point. The third one is the only really good one, since the connection would most likely be USB 2.0 and therefore faster than 100Mbps Ethernet. But then you have the question of whether or not the box can actually stream data off the hard drive that fast with everything else that's going on at the same time. And considering some of the other restrictions that are in place (like one MRV stream) I have my doubts on that too.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> None of these are particularly good reasons for using hardware over software. Especially the first two, one of which has already been solved with DirecTV2PC. Transcoding, which is not a new or unusal technology, would easily solve the second point. The third one is the only really good one, since the connection would most likely be USB 2.0 and therefore faster than 100Mbps Ethernet.


We're talking about the *best way to do it*, not just solving things.. if you can explain how a direct network connection can be surpassed for streaming huge files to remote devices using just software somehow...I'd love to learn. how that works.


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We're talking about the *best way to do it*, not just solving things.. if you can explain how a direct network connection can be surpassed for streaming huge files to remote devices using just software somehow...I'd love to learn. how that works.


I added to the end of my post after you quoted it, and addressed this.

Also, hardware is more expensive to produce than software. I'm not trying to make points for why the Nomad might be software, because we know it's hardware. I'm just saying it's not so ridiculous to think that it could be done in software.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> I added to the end of my post after you quoted it, and addressed this.
> 
> Also, hardware is more expensive to produce than software. I'm not trying to make points for why the Nomad might be software, because we know it's hardware. I'm just saying it's not so ridiculous to think that it could be done in software.


Agree it costs more...but then I *never* assumed (or stated) it would be free.


----------



## Hdhead

Well I guess a small, portable hard drive like device that you load up and take with you to plug into any viewing device does have some appeal.


----------



## Doug Brott

I'm gonna put my money on Network and not USB.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> - Copyright protection compliance
> - Compatibility with multiple platform devices (laptop.smartphone, etc.)
> - Direct access with network migrating content (for speed)


Thanks for taking the time to respond. If I get you right, DirecTV2PC already does 2.5 of those in s/w tho.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Doug Brott said:


> I'm gonna put my money on Network and not USB.


Seems logical, even though others believe USB. I would have to believe it would be another device in the Deca cloud.


----------



## David Ortiz

Doug Brott said:


> I'm gonna put my money on Network and not USB.


Perhaps Nomad will be like the Hx24 series and have coaxial networking inside. One Nomad to handle recordings on all of your DVRs.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> I'm gonna put my money on Network and not USB.


Seems logical, from a bit rate standpoint. Only reason they might use USB would be if the device needs power and they don't want us to have to use a brick or AC adapter with it.


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> I'm gonna put my money on Network and not USB.


But that would limit it's use to a connected home customer only. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Hdhead said:


> Well I guess a small, portable hard drive like device that you load up and take with you to plug into any viewing device does have some appeal.


And just where did you come up with that Notion?


----------



## Beerstalker

I don't understand why it would really need to be all that difficult. Pretty much all portable video players support MPEG2 and MPEG4 video which is what the DirecTV DVRs use anyway. They would just need some simple software to downscale the HD video files to a smaller resolution if needed. Then just send it out over the USB port that all HR2x models have on the front as far as I know. Make them download and use a DirecTV app for their device in order to view the videos.

I really hope it doesn't require another peice of hardware.

I am definitely interested though as I just bought a new 64Gb iPod Touch 4G, and I am thinking about getting an iPad when the new version comes out assuming it adds facetime.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> And just where did you come up with that Notion?


Wisdom on his part I suppose. 


veryoldschool said:


> But that would limit it's use to a connected home customer only. :lol:


Who woulda thought?


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree it costs more...but then I *never* assumed (or stated) it would be free.


Of course, when you add in the fact that DirecTV is apparently going to make this an upsell with an upfront and/or monthly fee attached, that's another tick in the "hardware" category. It's easier to convince people to pay for something physical.


----------



## Richierich

I'll pay for it in a Heartbeat if it is less than $150 Upfront for the Hardware/Licensing and then up to $5/per month for the Privilege of being able to View It Where I Go When I Go!!! :hurah:


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> I'll pay for it in a Heartbeat if it is less than $150 Upfront for the Hardware/Licensing and then up to $5/per month for the Privilege of being able to View It Where I Go When I Go!!! :hurah:


I would be surprised if the costs exceeded what you posted.


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> I would be surprised if the costs exceeded what you posted.


Well, that was the Most That I Would Be Willing To Pay Unless I Had To Pay More!!!


----------



## Richierich

If I can take my Recordings on an Airplane Trip such as to Hawaii (9 Hour Flight) then that would be Awesome along with my IPOD and DVDs to pass the time away!!!

When will we see it???


----------



## Hdhead

richierich said:


> And just where did you come up with that Notion?


Just day dreaming and it kinda fit the topic.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> If I can take my Recordings on an Airplane Trip such as to Hawaii (9 Hour Flight) then that would be Awesome along with my IPOD and DVDs to pass the time away!!!


It's nice to dream. 


> When will we see it???


After you want it.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's nice to dream.
> 
> After you want it.


I WANT IT NOW!!! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Hdhead said:


> Just day dreaming and it kinda fit the topic.


VELLY VELLY INTERESTING, KLINK!!! :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> I would be surprised if the costs exceeded what you posted.


"I wouldn't", but even what I expect isn't much higher.


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> Don't know .. We don't have all of the information on this offering yet.


The Morega web page seems quite telling and coupled with what we have been assured that NOMAD isn't, it seems like the underpinnings are there.

Questions that remain are how it will be connected and what are the limitations on content (ala TiVo2Go), if any.


----------



## Richierich

harsh said:


> The Morega web page seems quite telling and coupled with what we have been assured that NOMAD isn't, it seems like the underpinnings are there.
> 
> Questions that remain are how it will be connected and what are the limitations on content (ala TiVo2Go), if any.


What is this Morega Website that you Speak of???

Why are you so interested in Directv things if you are a Dish Subscriber???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> What is this Morega Website that you Speak of???


Google is your friend... 

http://www.morega.com/solutions_mobileclients.html

Of course the assumption this is aligned with the Nomad unit is pure speculation.


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> What is this Morega Website that you Speak of???


See post #49.


> Why are you so interested in Directv things if you are a Dish Subscriber???


Why not? If one company comes up with something "new", the other will likely follow (or make sure their existing product is at least as attractive). If NOMAD creates some excitement, DISH may show more interest in PocketDISH and light a fire under their Sling add-ons.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Why not? If one company comes up with something "new", the other will likely follow (or make sure their existing product is at least as attractive). If NOMAD creates some excitement, DISH may show more interest in PocketDISH and light a fire under their Sling add-ons.


Yeah...its not unusual for the other guys looking to play catch-up. 

Still, noticed a *true* Whole Home DVR service, SWiM, and other such technologies have not been comparably replicated with the other guys...so likely...NOMAD will be a ways off with them too.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah...its not unusual for the other guys looking to play catch-up.


What usually happens is some form of leap-frogging as opposed to a leveling of the playing field.


> Still, noticed a *true* Whole Home DVR service, SWiM, and other such technologies have not been comparably replicated with the other guys...so likely...NOMAD will be a ways off with them too.


A WHDS comparable is probably in the works as evidenced by Echostar's memberships in MoCA and RVU.

DISHPro answered the question of how to use a single wire for each DVR years before SWiM was introduced. SWiM leapfrogged by adding a tree topology that facilitated DECA.

DECA is DIRECTV's leapfrog of DISH's Dishcomm HomePlug technology built in to all ViP series DVRs.

DIRECTV2Go was to be DIRECTV's answer PocketDISH. NOMAD may finally realize that functionality along with the Sling functionality already built into the 922 and promised in the Slingbox 700U for other models.

DIRECTV's eSATA solution still hasn't fully answered the archiving volley of DISH's EHD offering but anticipation of future portability runs high.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> DIRECTV2Go was to be DIRECTV's answer PocketDISH. NOMAD may finally realize that functionality along with the Sling functionality already built into the 922 and promised in the Slingbox 700U for other models.


Of course Dish *bought their way *into the Sling solution....didn't actually do much themselves in terms of development.  I suspect NOMAD will be another leapfrog situation.

Yes...both companies are constantly in "top this!" mode.


----------



## Steve

harsh said:


> [...] NOMAD may finally realize that functionality along with the Sling functionality already built into the 922 and promised in the Slingbox 700U for other models.


Having a Sling server inside the 922 is pretty cool, IMO. If DirecTV could implement a similar technology that could stream recordings in real time from that box's "unified playlist" to a 3G iOS or Droid device, it could be a pretty popular feature.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course Dish *bought their way *into the Sling solution....didn't actually do much themselves in terms of development.  I suspect NOMAD will be another leapfrog situation.


If in fact Nomad is based on Morega's techonolgy, appears DirecTV will be licensing someone else's work as well.


----------



## billsharpe

Beerstalker said:


> I am definitely interested though as I just bought a new 64Gb iPod Touch 4G, and I am thinking about getting an iPad when the new version comes out assuming it adds facetime.


Me, too, except my iPod Touch is only 32GB. Had I known this was coming I might have sprung for the 64GB model. Incidentally it's the first Apple product I have ever purchased.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> If in fact Nomad is based on Morega's techonolgy, appears DirecTV will be licensing someone else's work as well.


Based on is not the same as containing...

DECA is a good example.


----------



## Steve

billsharpe said:


> Me, too, except my iPod Touch is only 32GB. Had I known this was coming I might have sprung for the 64GB model. Incidentally it's the first Apple product I have ever purchased.


Assuming Nomad uses similar compression techniques to iTunes', you could probably store over 40 hours of video on a 32GB iPod, which is not too shabby! 

That's based on this site's estimate of 1.5 GB for a 2-hour iTunes movie.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Assuming Nomad uses similar compression techniques to iTunes', you could probably store over 40 hours of video on a 32GB iPod, which is not too shabby!
> 
> That's based on this site's estimate of 1.5 GB for a 2-hour iTunes movie.


I'd agree with Steve that you won't likely have to be too concerned with the memory you have onhand in your iPad.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on is not the same as containing...
> 
> DECA is a good example.


An good example of "based on" or "containing"?


----------



## smiddy

I would love to use the NOMAD right now!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> I would love to use the NOMAD right now!


I bet it would be great for us regular travelers for work....beats using mobile devices on the plane for work-related tasks (oh wait, that's what we're supposed to be doing maybe... ) - :lol:


----------



## Richierich

billsharpe said:


> Me, too, except my iPod Touch is only 32GB. Had I known this was coming I might have sprung for the 64GB model. Incidentally it's the first Apple product I have ever purchased.


Well, I am thinking about buying a 14" HP Laptop but I will hold off until I find out if Nomad has it's Own Memory or it has to use my Laptop's Memory to Store Video Data.

If it uses it's Own Memory such as with a Flash Drive then I may Spring for the IPAD!!!


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> I would love to use the NOMAD right now!


You're Probably One Of The Lucky Few Who Are Testing This Puppy As We Speak!!! :lol: Congratulations !!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> You're Probably One Of The Lucky Few Who Are Testing This Puppy As We Speak!!! :lol: Congratulations !!!


In his dreams... 

But mine is working well...oops... !rolling


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In his dreams...
> 
> But mine is working well...oops... !rolling


Oops, there goes the NDA!!! You are going Directly to Directv Jail and you will not get $200 for Passing Go!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Oops, there goes the NDA!!! You are going Directly to Directv Jail and you will not get $200 for Passing Go!!! :lol:


It would be great to have one of these, since I'd use it frequently on my work travels. I suspect that once rolled out, this will become quite popular with at least the HD DVR / WHDS crowd.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It would be great to have one of these, since I'd use it frequently on my work travels. I suspect that once rolled out, this will become quite popular with at least the HD DVR / WHDS crowd.


I will get one the First Day that they announce that it is out for Sale. I just hope it comes with Memory (at least 64 GB) as I don't want to Spring for a 64GB IPAD. I just can't afford that!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> *I will get one the First Day *that they announce that it is out for Sale. I just hope it comes with Memory (at least 64 GB) as I don't want to Spring for a 64GB IPAD. I just can't afford that!!! :lol:


I suspect there will be qualifying requirements for using this device...but no one knows what those are yet...so *they'll be the judge *of that...lol:

I'm just hoping an IQ test is not one of the requirements...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect there will be qualifying requirements for using this device...but no one knows what those are yet...so *they'll be the judge *of that...lol:
> 
> I'm just hoping an IQ test is not one of the requirements...


Oh, we will not be able to View "Girls Gone Wild" Videos with our Nomad!!! Bah Humbug!!! :lol:

Are you suggesting that I may not be able to pass the IQ Test???

I Resemble That Remark.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Based on what has been posted on NOMAD, it would seem to have some logical service requirements, but we don't (yet) know what those are. It won't be free, and there has to be some form of connectivity to migrate content...we'll have to see how this all rolls out...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on what has been posted on NOMAD, it would seem to have some logical service requirements, but we don't (yet) know what those are. It won't be free, and there has to be some form of connectivity to migrate content...we'll have to see how this all rolls out...


Well, it will either have the Ability To Store Content or the Ability To Stream Content or Both. If you can use it on an airplane as has been suggested then it would have to have the Ability To Store Content but how can you do that on my Droid as it doesn't have very much storage capacity?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, it will either have the Ability To Store Content or the Ability To Stream Content or Both. If you can use it on an airplane as has been suggested then it would have to have the Ability To Store Content but how can you do that on my Droid as it doesn't have very much storage capacity?


I just love reading guessing game threads...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just love reading guessing game threads...


Well, do I even have Memory that Nomad could use on my Droid!!! I just don't know. I think it has some kind of SD Memory Stick in it I'll have to look and see.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, do I even have Memory that Nomad could use on my Droid!!! I just don't know. *I think it has some kind of SD Memory *Stick in it I'll have to look and see.


*Droid - 16 GB microSD pre-installed*


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Who knows, maybe this thing will only work with the HMC30 and we will all have to get the server before we can get the NOMAD device.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> Who knows, *maybe this thing will only work with the HMC30* and we will all have to get the server before we can get the NOMAD device.


Highly doubt that part...


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> Who knows, maybe this thing will only work with the HMC30 and we will all have to get the server before we can get the NOMAD device.


It is going to be out within 30 days as Directv would want it out by Christmas and I doubt that the HMC30 will be out by June of 2011 so I think not.

I guess they are just trying to keep up with Dish in this area of expertise so they are trying to get a Directv2Go Product out there to compete.

I would think that it would be a Streaming Device with some kind of storage capacity such as a Memory Stick so it could be Portable and you could take it with you to use in your Cell Phone Or IPAD or PC.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> *It is going to be out within 30 days *and I doubt that the *HMC30 will be out by June of 2011 *so I think not.
> 
> I guess they are just trying to keep up with Dish in this area of expertise so they are trying to get a Directv2Go Product out there to compete.
> 
> I would think that it would be a Streaming Device with some kind of storage capacity such as a Memory Stick so it could be Portable and you could take it with you to use in your Cell Phone Or IPAD or PC.


Those are some of the rumors floating around anyway....


----------



## Richierich

Well, pretty much everything here are Rumors and a Guessing Game much as was Played way back when the HR10-250 was coming out and we didn't know exactly what it would encompass so we just Speculated and It Was Fun!!! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Or maybe it could use something like a USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive like the Toshiba 320 GB External Hard Drive but I would Prefer a Memory Stick because it is smaller but then Directv probably wouldn't use anything larger than a 16 GB Secure Digital Card based on how they limit their capacity of drives in their DVRs.

Here is a Picture of one. http://www.google.com/products/cata...aOPJX-ywW40YyPBg&sa=image&ved=0CDsQ8gIwAzgA#p

Boy, are these Portable External Hard Drives getting smaller or what???


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Or maybe...


Basically this will be the rest of this thread, until someone gets their hands on one.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> Basically this will be the rest of this thread, until someone gets their hands on one.


Yes, but ain't it Fun To Speculate!!! :lol:

Especially when you are Bored!!!

I can't wait to get my Hands on one of these Puppies. It will make my Flights to Kauai, Hawaii (9 hours plus 2 hours to Kauai including waiting for Hawaiian Air) much more Tolerable.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Yes, but ain't it Fun To Speculate!!! :lol:
> 
> Especially when you are Bored!!!
> 
> *I can't wait to get my Hands on one of these Puppies. It will make my Flights to Kauai, Hawaii (9 hours plus 2 hours to Kauai including waiting for Hawaiian Air) much more Tolerable*.


Movies are free in First Class.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Movies are free in First Class.


Wife want let me spring for that as we are too poor to travel in that Luxury Style but I do have a DVD Player that works very well on trips to Hawaii. In fact I will be bringing it along with my Nomad Device so we can enjoy Video on the Flight to Lost Wages for the 2011 CES. 

Only 65 more days or something like that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

NOMAD sounds like a solid solution for folks who want to view their previously-recorded HD DVR content on a mobile device. Looking forward to seeing just how it rolls out.


----------



## DogLover

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Movies are free in First Class.


But, it is the airlines choice of movies. .


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DogLover said:


> But, it is the airlines choice of movies. .


Actually...there's a pretty good selection of choices there, especially more recent releases...but yes...there's a limit.

I was making light of the $$$.


----------



## Richierich

He was just Pulling My Chain but I go to Blockbuster and Rent 3 or 4 Movies before I leave to fly somewhere and Play them on my Portable DVD Player and that works Great!!!

But by January I will have My NOMAD in hand to Watch My Recorded Material off of my DVR and that will be FANTASTIC!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> He was just Pulling My Chain but I go to Blockbuster and Rent 3 or 4 Movies before I leave to fly somewhere and Play them on my Portable DVD Player and that works Great!!!
> 
> But by January I will have My NOMAD in hand to Watch My Recorded Material off of my DVR and that will be FANTASTIC!!!


Maybe they should call it NOTMAD.


----------



## DogLover

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Actually...there's a pretty good selection of choices there, especially more recent releases...but yes...there's a limit.
> 
> I was making light of the $$$.


Yep, I realized that after I hit enter. I'm a little slow today. (Worked as a poll worker yesterday, so it was a long day.)

Mr. DogLover does more travelling than I do, and he is looking forward to Nomad, no matter how it may work. Already have the go ahead to get it when it comes out.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DogLover said:


> Yep, I realized that after I hit enter. I'm a little slow today. (Worked as a poll worker yesterday, so it was a long day.)
> 
> *Mr. DogLover does more travelling than I do, and he is looking forward to Nomad, no matter how it may work. Already have the go ahead to get it when it comes out*.


Mind if I copy that post for Mrs HDTVFan....?? :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Mind if I copy that post for Mrs HDTVFan....?? :lol:


Oh, Puhleese, she won't Deny You Anything Electronic, are you kidding??? Look at his Avatar and Check Out His Home Theater!!!

You're probably testing one right now as we ponder it!!!

What does it look like? :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Oh, Puhleese, she won't Deny You Anything Electronic, are you kidding??? Look at his Avatar and Check Out His Home Theater!!!
> 
> You're probably testing one right now as we ponder it!!!
> 
> *What does it look like*? :lol:


It looks like it should. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Well, enjoy it because I will have one the day they come out and you can take that to the Bank.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, enjoy it because I will have one the day they come out and you can take that to the Bank.


Son....you shouldn't make promises your luck can't cash. :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 can't you just stream something to me via the internet so I can see it work? :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> hdtvfan0001 can't you just stream something to me via the internet so I can see it work? :lol:


!rolling

I wish...


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> hdtvfan0001 can't you just stream something to me via the internet so I can see it work? :lol:


We The Little People are not Allowed to see it until They Bless It With Their Holy Water!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> We The Little People are not Allowed to see it until They Bless It With Their Holy Water!!! :lol:


Thou thinkest too much aboutest the details too muchest.


----------



## Richierich

Only because I am Very Curious about this Nomad Thingy and could definitely put it to Great Use.

I WANT IT NOW!!! (Whining)


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> Only because I am Very Curious about this Nomad Thingy and could definitely put it to Great Use.
> 
> I WANT IT NOW!!! (Whining)


I wanted it a couple of weekends ago... right after I heard about it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> I wanted it a couple of weekends ago... right after I heard about it.


No skipping in line!... :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No skipping in line!... :lol:


I have no doubt that I was nowhere near the top of the line of people who heard about this first.


----------



## Richierich

I bet that Directv will Rush to have it out before Christmas so I can have a Very Very Nice Christmas Present as Mrs. Richierich (the one will all of the money) has Approved of the Purchase In Advance (well kind of).


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I bet that Directv will Rush to have it out before Christmas so I can have a Very Very Nice Christmas Present as Mrs. Richierich (the one will all of the money) has Approved of the Purchase In Advance (well kind of).


...or a bag of coal.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...or a bag of coal.


She'll get alot of use out of it just like she does with the Portable DVD PLayer.


----------



## Richierich

Doug, will we get a First Look at this Nomad Device anytime soon?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Doug, will we get a First Look at this Nomad Device anytime soon?


**Soon** = a subjective term.


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> Doug, will we get a First Look at this Nomad Device anytime soon?


Nomad is coming soon, therefore the First Look must also be coming soon.


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> I would think that it would be a Streaming Device with some kind of storage capacity such as a Memory Stick so it could be Portable and you could take it with you to use in your Cell Phone Or IPAD or PC.


Are you thinking of USB thumb drives when you say "Memory Stick"? The two devices are NOT synonymous.

The Morega reference description uniquely mentions a USB port for downloading to mass storage.


----------



## Richierich

Yes, a USB Flash Drive is what I meant to say. :lol:


----------



## mattgwyther

Reference on the earning call about new technology for the home to share at the December meeting


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Jeremy W said:


> Nomad is coming soon, therefore the First Look must also be coming soon.


Looks like you may have a new word of the year. :lol: *SOON*


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> I would think that it would be a Streaming Device with some kind of storage capacity such as a Memory Stick so it could be Portable and you could take it with you to use in your Cell Phone Or IPAD or PC.


The USB thumb drive idea is great, you have as much capacity as you can afford.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> The USB thumb drive idea is great, you have as much capacity as you can afford.


I think he's actually really referring to flash memory technology, as opposed specifically to a thumb drive....

NOMAD will likely include something larger than a thumb drive.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I think he's actually really referring to flash memory technology, as opposed specifically to a thumb drive....
> 
> NOMAD will likely include something larger than a thumb drive.


See I confused myself just reading posts. Memory stick/flash drive/thumb drive. Hopefully I can help confuse others.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> See I confused myself just reading posts. Memory stick/flash drive/thumb drive. *Hopefully I can help confuse others*.


!rolling

Mission Accomplished. :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> **Soon** = a subjective term.


Gosh, I can't believe I used that word that I Hate so much SOON as in whenever we get around to getting it to you is when you will get it, got it???


----------



## Richierich

Will we have to buy Nomad from Directv or will it be available in stores?

Probably at first just Directv I guess but I hope it is out before Christmas.


----------



## xmetalx

Probably directly from D*. I doubt something like this would be available for purchase in retail.. Also, seeing as how they've phased out the Best Buy/Costco retail model for recievers, it doesn't make much sense for them to sell Nomad via the same method.


----------



## Richierich

Yes I will probably have to buy it from Directv and that is okay.


----------



## Richierich

I also wonder if the Nomad is a USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive (or USB Flash Drive) with Directv Software on it for Encoding/Decoding Purposes will it have it's Own Power Supply or draw Power from the Device it is connected to such as an IPAD or Droid Cell Phone as this could use a lot of power which you might not have with the Droid but would have with a PC or IPAD!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I also wonder if the Nomad is a USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive (or USB Flash Drive) with Directv Software on it for Encoding/Decoding Purposes will it have it's Own Power Supply or draw Power from the Device it is connected to such as an IPAD or Droid Cell Phone as this could use a lot of power which you might not have with the Droid but would have with a PC or IPAD!!!


Keep guessing...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I just watched a U-Verse commercial and it showed a woman on a train (or a subway) watching a program on her smartphone, I was left with the impression she was streaming it or it was loaded directly onto her smartphone. Most likely loaded onto the phone, but maybe someone knows how they do it.


----------



## harsh

scottandregan said:


> I just watched a U-Verse commercial and it showed a woman on a train (or a subway) watching a program on her smartphone, I was left with the impression she was streaming it or it was loaded directly onto her smartphone. Most likely loaded onto the phone, but maybe someone knows how they do it.


A few cable companies are now offering their VOD content via the Internet. I suspect that is what they were trying to demonstrate.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> I just watched a U-Verse commercial and it showed a woman on a train (or a subway) watching a program on her smartphone, I was left with the impression she was streaming it or it was loaded directly onto her smartphone. Most likely loaded onto the phone, but maybe someone knows how they do it.


If they loaded it directly onto the Phone how much Video could that Phone hold?


----------



## Jeremy W

scottandregan said:


> I just watched a U-Verse commercial and it showed a woman on a train (or a subway) watching a program on her smartphone, I was left with the impression she was streaming it or it was loaded directly onto her smartphone. Most likely loaded onto the phone, but maybe someone knows how they do it.


It was streaming.


----------



## Doug Brott

richierich said:


> I also wonder if the Nomad is a USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive (or USB Flash Drive) with Directv Software on it for Encoding/Decoding Purposes will it have it's Own Power Supply or draw Power from the Device it is connected to such as an IPAD or Droid Cell Phone as this could use a lot of power which you might not have with the Droid but would have with a PC or IPAD!!!


I'd think the end of that USB 2.0 cable would have to look an awfully lot like an RJ45 connector.


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> I'd think the end of that USB 2.0 cable would have to look an awfully lot like an RJ45 connector.


Or you could have a USB Cable with a Mini USB Cable on the other end to Plug into the Mini USB Port on your IPhone or your Droid.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Or you could have a USB Cable with a Mini USB Cable on the other end to Plug into the Mini USB Port on your IPhone or your Droid.


...or not.


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> I'd think the end of that USB 2.0 cable would have to look an awfully lot like an RJ45 connector.


You would then have an RJ45 Connector on one end of the Cable and on the other end would be a Mini USB Cable Connector to plug into my Droid.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> You would then have an RJ45 Connector on one end of the Cable and on the other end would be a Mini USB Cable Connector to plug into my Droid.


*Confucius say*: Man with multiple connections not always connected to the facts.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Assuming this device connects into on of my HR's or directly into my network, could I sent content via WIFI to my Android phone. No cables needed.
No connections.
hdtvfan0001, when are you going to switch to an Android? :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

scottandregan said:


> Assuming this device connects into on of my HR's or directly into my network, could I sent content via WIFI to my Android phone. No cables needed.
> No connections.


I don't see that happening.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> If they loaded it directly onto the Phone how much Video could that Phone hold?


iTUnes movies you can download to your iPhone use ~ 1.5 gig storage for 2 hours. Most phones are either 8, 16, or 32 gigs, so even on an 8 gig phone, you could store 8-10 hours of video, depending on how many MP3's or photos you may have on there as well.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Steve said:


> iTUnes movies you can download to your iPhone use ~ 1.5 gig storage for 2 hours. Most phones are either 8, 16, or 32 gigs, so even on an 8 gig phone, you could store 8-10 hours of video, depending on how many MP3's or photos you may have on there as well.


I could live with that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> Assuming this device connects into on of my HR's or directly into my network, could I sent content via WIFI to my Android phone. No cables needed.
> No connections.
> hdtvfan0001, *when are you going to switch to an Android*? :lol:


I'm looking towards the next generation....maybe 2011 some time...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Jeremy W said:


> I don't see that happening.


Why? I thought that's what Nomad was all about. Otherwise, what does it do? :scratchin

Mike


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I had a great WIFI in a lodge we stayed at a couple of weeks ago, they had crap for tv and after the wife fell asleep I watched an HD show on the History Channel (on my laptop) . I never thought of trying it on my phone. But that would be a perfect situation for that, log on to Nomad device, send program over internet, and watch when ready. My home upload speed isn't the fastest but I think it would work, especially if it downsized the show to look good on my phone screen.


----------



## Jeremy W

MicroBeta said:


> Why? I thought that's what Nomad was all about. Otherwise, what does it do? :scratchin


It'll allow you to put content on a mobile device, but there will be wires involved.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> It'll allow you to put content on a mobile device, but there will be wires involved.


Many of us assumed that all along...especially to assure some form of reasonable performance to migrate those large video files.


----------



## Richierich

Yes, you will have to Migrate your Recorded Content to your Nomad somehow probably via an Ethernet Connection connected to DECA and then you will have to Connect your Nomad device to your PC or IPAD or IPhone or Droid perhaps using a USB Cable.

That's my $.02.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> Yes, you will have to Migrate your Recorded Content to your Nomad somehow probably via an Ethernet Connection connected to DECA and then you will have to Connect your Nomad device to your PC or IPAD or IPhone or Droid perhaps using a USB Cable.


Probably Nomad to your PC first, and then from the PC to your portable device, since each device uses a proprietary method for syncing... like using iTunes to get content onto your iPhone.

It wouldn't surprise me if Nomad itself is actually controlled by a PC app.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Probably Nomad to your PC first, and then from the PC to your portable device, since each device uses a proprietary method for syncing... like using iTunes to get content onto your iPhone.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if Nomad itself is actually controlled by a PC app.


I actually had someone else tell me that same thing about Itunes and perhaps you are correct but I hope we shall see real soon as this wait is killing me.

Also, I will check my other Coaxial Digital Audio Cable tomorrow to see if a New Cable works or it is indeed an internal circuitry problem.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Probably Nomad to your PC first, and then from the PC to your portable device, since each device uses a proprietary method for syncing... like using iTunes to get content onto your iPhone.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if Nomad itself is actually controlled by a PC app.


Shhhhhhhh.... 

Of course..that would simply things a bit, and support a "key" for security wouldn't it?


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Shhhhhhhh....
> 
> Of course..that would simply things a bit, and support a "key" for security wouldn't it?


BINGO!!! So Nomad will be an App with a Security Key for Decoding and a Device for Storing the Video Content for Playback later after connecting to the Device for Viewing.

Quit Teasing Me and Let Me Know The Truth!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> BINGO!!! So Nomad will be an App with a Security Key for Decoding and a Device for Storing the Video Content for Playback later after connecting to the Device for Viewing.
> 
> Quit Teasing Me and Let Me Know The Truth!!!


Nobody said it WAS that...just that it COULD be something LIKE that...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Shhhhhhhh....
> 
> Of course..that would simply things a bit, and support a "key" for security wouldn't it?


So the NOMAD device with the UL certification is just a cable?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> So the NOMAD device with the UL certification is just a cable?


Not exactly < _in a Hertz Commercial voice_ > 

There would have to be a bit more to it...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> BINGO!!! So Nomad will be an App with a Security Key for Decoding and a Device for Storing the Video Content for Playback later after connecting to the Device for Viewing.
> 
> Quit Teasing Me and Let Me Know The Truth!!!


Maybe he'll invite us over to see it. (The Nomad)


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> I actually had someone else tell me that same thing about Itunes and perhaps you are correct but I hope we shall see real soon as this wait is killing me.


Well if you think about it, for Nomad to connect directly to your device it would have to have that particular device's OS syncing software on it. That would be a support nightmare.

Besides, companies like Apple don't allow 3d party apps to talk directly to the iPhone or iPad. Same with Microsoft and the Zune, and likely the WP7. I don't know about Droids or Blackberries.


> Also, I will check my other Coaxial Digital Audio Cable tomorrow to see if a New Cable works or it is indeed an internal circuitry problem.


Subject for a different thread.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> So the NOMAD device with the UL certification is just a cable?


It would be a Cable and a Storage Device much the same as a Portable USB External Hard Drive or a USB Flash Drive so you can Offload your Video Content and then you would have the Directv Software to decrypt or decode it so you can View it.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> Maybe he'll invite us over to see it. (The Nomad)


I've asked but all he says is something about a Non Disclosure Agreement, whatever that is!!! :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> It would be a Cable and a Storage Device much the same as a Portable USB External Hard Drive or a USB Flash Drive so you can Offload your Video Content and then you would have the Directv Software to decrypt or decode it so you can View it.


That would work, could this device then send the content via the internet too? Cut it down to size of your choice, good enough for a 4" screen and also big enough for a 15" laptop screen too.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> That would work, could this device then send the content via the internet too? Cut it down to size of your choice, good enough for a 4" screen and also big enough for a 15" laptop screen too.


EXACTLY!!!

Your Directv App would Scale it down to the Specifications or Native Resolution of the Device.


----------



## Steve

scottandregan said:


> So the NOMAD device with the UL certification is just a cable?


Since it's a piece of hardware, my guess is, FWIW, that it will be a black box containing an AVC encoder that is controlled by a PC app. It will probably connect to your home network so it's visible to both the HR's and your PC. From the PC, you'll select HR recordings (like DirecTV2PC), stream them through the Nomad AVC encoder and the transcoded files will build and be stored on your PC as MP4's that can be synced to your portable device.

What I don't know is if you'll need a proprietary app on your portable device to play them, or just to "unlock" them, so they can be played using your devices standard video player. *All speculation on my part.*


----------



## Hdhead

You guys are so far off. Here is a top secret photo I obtained.


----------



## Groundhog45

richierich said:


> It would be a Cable and a Storage Device much the same as a Portable USB External Hard Drive or a USB Flash Drive so you can Offload your Video Content and then you would have the Directv Software to decrypt or decode it so you can View it.


Seems logical. Are we there yet?


----------



## Richierich

Groundhog45 said:


> Seems logical. Are we there yet?


No, but getting Damn Close!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> No, but getting Damn Close!!! :lol:


In your dreams.... 

...and no....you can't have one (yet). :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In your dreams....
> 
> ...and no....you can't have one (yet). :lol:


How about for Christmas??? :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

Hdhead said:


> You guys are so far off. Here is a top secret photo I obtained.


That's strange, I thought it looked more like an old Creative MP3 player...


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> That's strange, I thought it looked more like an old Creative MP3 player...


Very Good!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> How about for Christmas??? :lol:


Only if you're good.


----------



## wall-e

Too funny Jeremy W. I had one of those Creative Nomads back in the day. Even dropped in a larger hardrive and loved it. It was a little slow, but did the job!


----------



## RunnerFL

Hdhead said:


> You guys are so far off. Here is a top secret photo I obtained.


That's not a Nomad, that's a Cyclops.


----------



## Groundhog45

My folks had a Nomad back in '56.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Did DirecTV give them that so they could move the 19" B&W around town?


----------



## Lord Vader

I admit I haven't been paying much attention--OK, maybe none--to a lot of things here due to my schedule, so can someone in layman's terms explain exactly what NOMAD is? I was talking to my old man about this, but I didn't really have much knowledge of it; hence my asking.


----------



## Richierich

Nomad I am Speculating will be a Device that will let you take your Directv Recordings with you on an IPAD or IPHONE or DROID or a Laptop PC so you can watch your Favorite Recordings while on an airplane or in an airport waiting to board or in the Gym or wherever.

It is a Device that will let you Offload your Recordings perhaps with Software on that Device to let you View the Encrypted Video Files probably by entering your Pass Code or Key Code to Decrypt it so you can View it.

The Specifics haven't been Released yet but hopefully we will know within a month. And hopefully it will have Streaming Capabilities as well.


----------



## Lord Vader

Sounds cool. Guess I should be glad I just got an HTC EVO.


----------



## Richierich

Lord Vader said:


> Sounds cool. Guess I should be glad I just got an HTC EVO.


I'm waiting to see what the Final Product looks like and how it Functions before I buy either an IPAI or a 14" HP Laptop (Lightweight). And it should work on my Verizon Droid.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Nomad is a Device that will let you take your Directv Recordings with you on an *IPAD or IPHONE or DROID *or a Laptop PC so you can watch your Favorite Recordings while on an airplane or in an airport waiting to board or in the Gym or wherever.
> 
> It is a Device that will let you Offload your Recordings perhaps with Software on that Device to let you View the Encrypted Video Files probably by entering your Pass Code or Key Code to Decrypt it so you can View it.
> 
> The Specifics haven't been Released yet but hopefully we will know within a month.


I don't recall seeing any confirmation of all the *specific* devices supported...at least nothing beyond a laptop or iPhone as *examples*...

I suspect we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit in assuming *all kinds of devices/models *that will be supported, at least prior to seeing some documented evidence.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't recall seeing any confirmation of all the *specific* devices supported...at least nothing beyond a laptop or iPhone as *examples*...
> 
> I suspect we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit in assuming *all kinds of devices/models *that will be supported, at least prior to seeing some documented evidence.


Excuse me but I thought this Thread was for Speculation about the Nomad so of course we don't know all of the Devices but if it can be Offloaded to a PC or an IPHONE then surely it can be Offloaded to an IPAD or DROID!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Excuse me but I thought this Thread was for Speculation about the Nomad so of course we don't know all of the Devices but if it can be Offloaded to a PC or an IPHONE then surely it can be Offloaded to an IPAD or DROID!!!


Speculation yes...but based on some earlier posts...it sure sounded more "matter of fact" that a whole list of devices will be supported, which of course has not been confirmed in any way. A couple comments were even made about planned device purchases...so the point is...*its all speculation*.


----------



## Richierich

No it had to be All Speculation at this point because we haven't seen the Nomad or a First Look at the Nomad or been given a Detailed Spec Sheet on the Nomad so it would have to be Speculation but if it can be Directv2Go on a Nomad then it would have to Facilitate getting the Recordings onto an IPHONE or a Laptop or an IPAD for Purposed of Playback away from the home environment.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> No it had to be All Speculation at this point because we haven't seen the Nomad or a First Look at the Nomad or been given a Detailed Spec Sheet on the Nomad so it would have to be Speculation but if it can be Directv2Go on a Nomad then it would have to Facilitate getting the Recordings onto an IPHONE or a Laptop or an IPAD for Purposed of Playback away from the home environment.


If Morega _is_ the company behind this, on this page they're showing both streaming and copying (i.e., "transport"), to PC's and mobile phones. They're also showing _iPhone_, _Blackberry _and _Windows Mobile_ logos on that same page, as well as support for DLNA and UPnP. UPnP would be necessary to _stream_ files through your router, from your LAN to the public internet.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> UPnP would be necessary to _stream_ files through your router, from your LAN to the public internet.


Not necessarily. UPnP is mostly used for discovering devices inside the network and exchanging information with them. DirecTV2PC uses UPnP, for example.


----------



## Steve

Jeremy W said:


> Not necessarily. UPnP is mostly used for discovering devices inside the network.


But it's also the easiest way to automatically poke a hole through a router's firewall, for non-technical customers who may want to use this capability. All modern routers support it, AFAIK.


----------



## Lord Vader

OK, I've found NOMAD and what it's going to look like.


----------



## loveshockey

richierich said:


> No it had to be All Speculation at this point because we haven't seen the Nomad or a First Look at the Nomad or been given a Detailed Spec Sheet on the Nomad so it would have to be Speculation but if it can be Directv2Go on a Nomad then it would have to Facilitate getting the Recordings onto an IPHONE or a Laptop or an IPAD for Purposed of Playback away from the home environment.


the way you had phrased your comments in the previous post seemed like you were professing knowledge rather than your opinion...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Not to worry...the speculation is OK and fun....likely we won't have to wait long to actually see what comes to fruition...


----------



## smiddy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not to worry...the speculation is OK and fun....likely we won't have to wait long to actually see what comes to fruition...


I hope you are right! I want one with all this travel I do...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> I hope you are right! I want one with all this travel I do...


Ditto Ditto Ditto.


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> I hope you are right! I want one with all this travel I do...


I don't Travel alot but I still want a Nomad and I want it NOW!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I don't Travel alot but I still want a Nomad and I want it NOW!!! :lol:


Then you're probably gonna be disappointed...because it's not coming *now*... it's coming *soon*...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then you're probably gonna be disappointed...because it's not coming *now*... it's coming *soon*...


There are Two Words I Hate and they are "Maybe" and "Soon"!!!

So how long is Soon??? 30 days???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> There are Two Words I Hate and they are "Maybe" and "Soon"!!!
> 
> So how long is Soon??? 30 days???


As *soon* as it's ready.


----------



## billsharpe

This thread has been going on for more than a month now and the best date estimate is still "soon."

Looks like something for 2011...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

billsharpe said:


> This thread has been going on for more than a month now and the best date estimate is still "soon."
> 
> Looks like something for 2011...


Actually....the first signs of *soon* were only 2 weeks ago... 

So its still *soon*.


----------



## Richierich

I am betting it will be out Before Christmas unless they run into some unexpected problems. 

Just my $.02.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> I don't Travel alot but I still want a Nomad and I want it NOW!!! :lol:


I am in the same boat. When I get mine I'll be a walking Directv ad.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> I am in the same boat. When I get mine I'll be a walking Directv ad.


EXACTLY!!!


----------



## Richierich

And if Nomad is going to use DIRECTV2PC Software (which is probably one of the reasons Directv developed DIRECTV2PC) as the Base Platform for Nomad then they need to add a Skip Forward (30 Second Skip Tick) Button to the Menu.

I guess instead of "Play" it will say something like "Offload Recording to Selected Device".


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Groundhog45 said:


> My folks had a Nomad back in '56.


Now that's an awesome Nomad. It's a bit before my time but I really like the late 50s styling. 

I bet DirecTV's Nomad will be just as cool...for different reasons. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> And if Nomad is going to use DIRECTV2PC Software (which is probably one of the reasons Directv developed DIRECTV2PC) as the Base Platform for Nomad then they need to add a Skip Forward (Skip Tick) Button to the Menu.
> 
> I guess instead of "Play" it will say something like "Offload Recording to Selected Device".


I'm sure it will share some of the same underpinning code for the video presentaiton, as it has proven to work quite well.


MicroBeta said:


> I bet DirecTV's Nomad will be just as cool...for different reasons.
> 
> Mike


I bet you're right.


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> And if Nomad is going to use DIRECTV2PC Software (which is probably one of the reasons Directv developed DIRECTV2PC) as the Base Platform for Nomad then they need to add a Skip Forward (30 Second Skip Tick) Button to the Menu.


My theory is that DIRECTV2PC was developed to test the server component of WHDS and possibly the HMC.

I'd be looking for something a whole lot more like Slingplayer on the client side. The point of NOMAD for streaming would seem to be to scale and encode something that can be transported across networks with reduced and inconsistent bandwidth. NOMAD may be providing the seemingly necessary analog hole.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> My theory is that DIRECTV2PC was developed to test the server component of WHDS and possibly the HMC.
> 
> I'd be looking for something a whole lot more like Slingplayer on the client side. The point of NOMAD for streaming would seem to be to scale and encode something that can be transported across networks with reduced and inconsistent bandwidth. NOMAD may be providing the seemingly necessary analog hole.


I suspect your theory is not entirely correct on DirecTV2PC.

As for streaming...NOMAD will be a content transfer device and platform, not to be confused with how Slingbox works.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for streaming...NOMAD will be a content transfer device and platform, not to be confused with how Slingbox works.


If based on Morega technology, based on the Nomad UL listing info, it may be technically capable of streaming as well, as you can see here. So if DirecTV wanted to offer us an alternative to Slingbox, it appears they could.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> *If* based on Morega technology, based on the Nomad UL listing info, it may be technically capable of streaming as well, as you can see here. So *if* DirecTV wanted to offer us an alternative to Slingbox, it appears they could.


*If* is a huge 2 letter word.

Of course the ability to do something and the intent to do it are not the same.

We'll know soon enough just how NOMAD rolls out.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for streaming...NOMAD *will *be a content transfer device and platform, not to be confused with how Slingbox works.





Steve said:


> If based on Morega technology [...] if DirecTV wanted to offer us an alternative to Slingbox, it appears they could.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> *If* is a huge 2 letter word.


It is. But *will *implies you know this for a fact. If you do, great. Otherwise, there is another _possibility_, hence my post



> We'll know soon enough just how NOMAD rolls out.


Exactly.


----------



## Doug Brott

DIRECTV2PC was developed (as we know) by a third party who already had much of the underlying technology needed to be a client. This allowed DIRECTV to focus on the server so that when it came time to do the client, DIRECTV would already know that there was a working server.

It was more or less a way to bootstrap the entire MRV process.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV2PC was developed (as we know) by a third party who already had much of the underlying technology needed to be a client. This allowed DIRECTV to focus on the server so that when it came time to do the client, DIRECTV would already know that there was a working server.
> 
> It was more or less a way to bootstrap the entire MRV process.


There we have it on DirecTV2PC.

Suspect someone else will be involved in the NOMAD development/design in a similar "partnered" fashion.


----------



## Richierich

It is Spelled Morega and Not Morenga!!! 

Probably just a Device that Will Allow Us To Offload Our Recorded Programs to a PC or other Devices yet to be specified and then Allow Us To View It By Entering A Passkey or Passcode To Be Able To Decode or Decrypt It!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Having done some various resources "homework". I suspect Morega is indeed some form of "partner" on NOMAD, even though their Sept 2010 UL application is a general "blanket" one, covering almost any form of electronics. It does not disclose any details on the *specific* nature of the partnered device or technology.

NOMAD (assuming all the rumored capabilities are accurate) would need to include a hardware and a software and hardware element to it, and based on their application, its fair to assume Morega will be a part of that equation, at least in some part.

As for streaming...I haven't seen any evidence that is part of the plan.

The good news...is that we should find out the nitty gritty details some time s--- (I can't utter the word in fear of upchuck :lol.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having done some various resources "homework". I suspect Morega is indeed some form of "partner" on NOMAD, even though their Sept 2010 UL application is a general "blanket" one, covering almost any form of electronics. It does not disclose any details on the *specific* nature of the partnered device or technology.
> 
> NOMAD (assuming all the rumored capabilities are accurate) would need to include a hardware and a software and hardware element to it, and based on their application, its fair to assume Morega will be a part of that equation, at least in some part.
> 
> As for streaming...I haven't seen any evidence that is part of the plan.
> 
> The good news...is that we should find out the nitty gritty details some time s--- (I can't utter the word in fear of upchuck :lol.


Very Good On Both Points. You Spelled Morega right and you didn't use that Dreaded "S" Word.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Very Good On Both Points. You Spelled Morega right and you didn't use that Dreaded "S" Word.


WOO HOO.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for streaming...I haven't seen any evidence that is part of the plan.


Not sure what you're looking at, but outsiders like me haven't seen any evidence of _anything_... so far. Doug's hint here, tho, tells me on day one, it's likely going to offer file copy at minimum.

That said, we do know Morega was granted a UL license for "DIRECTV Nomad, Model(s) MDR1R0-01", and that Morega product line includes both "streaming" _and _"transport" solutions. So perhaps what we see first will just be "phase one" of a product that will ultimately offer the best features of _both _TiVO To Go _and_ the Slingbox.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

IIRC there were also questions in the survey asking about High speed internet in the home and if you would be willing to get HSI for this product.

I think it would be a let down if it did not allow any king of streaming.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Not sure what you're looking at, but outsiders like me haven't seen any evidence of _anything_... so far. Doug's hint here, tho, tells me on day one, it's likely going to offer file copy at minimum.
> 
> That said, we do know Morega was granted a UL license for "DIRECTV Nomad, Model(s) MDR1R0-01", and that Morega product line includes both "streaming" _and _"transport" solutions. So perhaps what we see first will just be "phase one" of a product that will ultimately offer the best features of _both _TiVO To Go _and_ the Slingbox.


If you read the full UL request...it includes a long laundry list of *potential *capabilities...welll beyond just that. That would seem to infer the final offering will includes some, but not all of those many things listed. We simply don't know yet what will and will not be included.

I still see nothing *firm* on streaming being part of the equation.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If you read the *full UL request*...it includes a long laundry list of _*potential *_capabilities...welll beyond just that. That would seem to infer the final offering will includes some, but not all of those many things listed[...]


Good find! I couldn't find the full UL request, just this. Can you share that link?



> I still see nothing *firm* on streaming being part of the equation.


But apparently you see something firm on copying?


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Not sure what you're looking at, but outsiders like me haven't seen any evidence of _anything_... so far. Doug's hint here, tho, tells me on day one, it's likely going to offer file copy at minimum.
> 
> That said, we do know Morega was granted a UL license for "DIRECTV Nomad, Model(s) MDR1R0-01", and that Morega product line includes both "streaming" _and _"transport" solutions. So perhaps what we see first will just be "phase one" of a product that will ultimately offer the best features of _both _TiVO To Go _and_ the Slingbox.


That would be Great!!! :hurah:

The Capability to Download Our Recorded Programs To View On The Go Later without having to have WiFi Capabilities and then later the Icing on the Cake is Streaming Capabilities to keep up with Dish's Slinging Capabilities.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> That would be Great!!! :hurah:


:up:

And DirecTV would be offering a combination of features none of their competitors offer at the moment... AFAIK. I'm not too familiar with U-Verse, e.g.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> :up:
> 
> And DirecTV would be offering a combination of features none of their competitors offer at the moment... AFAIK. I'm not too familiar with U-Verse, e.g.


That would help them to Bury Dish and offer Directv Subs alot of Bang for their Buck particularly if you are a Traveling Type.

I would rather have the Downloading Capability rather than the Streaming Capability if I had to choose one over the other but that is just me and my Preferences.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There we have it on DirecTV2PC.


Doug's explanation of DIRECTV2PC seems to be virtually identical to my theory.

I remain convinced that you're all wet about NOMAD not prominently featuring a streaming component. To get a UL listing, the equipment had to be essentially consumer ready and been demonstrated to work safely (not necessarily optimally) with each of the features cited in the listing.

Given the volumes of different kinds of content vying for space on most multimedia handhelds, it seems logical that streaming will figure prominently and that it will be accomplished in a very Sling/HAVA-like manner so that the client device doesn't have to spend a lot of resources on scaling, decrypting or decoding.


----------



## Richierich

Can you share that Full UL Request with us, hdtvfan0001??? I would like to read it also.

Looks like we will be Downloading and Streaming our Directv Recordings so we can Truly Watch What We Want When We Want And Where We Want To Watch It!!!

Very Cool.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Doug's explanation of DIRECTV2PC seems to be virtually identical to my theory.
> 
> *I remain convinced that you're all wet about NOMAD not prominently featuring a streaming component. To get a UL listing, the equipment had to be essentially consumer ready and been demonstrated to work safely (not necessarily optimally) with each of the features cited in the listing.*
> Given the volumes of different kinds of content vying for space on most multimedia handhelds, it seems logical that streaming will figure prominently and that it will be accomplished in a very Sling/HAVA-like manner so that the client device doesn't have to spend a lot of resources on scaling, decrypting or decoding.


Consumer ready has nothing whatsoever to do with streaming. Streaming is not a requirement to succeed, in fact, not required at all for mobile use of content. Just ask any iTunes user.

Yes, its an option, but just that....an option.

With all the issues around bandwidth inconsistency around the country, as well as the newfound growth and momentum around restricting bandwidth...that may not have the glowing future some predicted just a few years back.


----------



## Richierich

harsh said:


> I remain convinced that you're all wet about NOMAD not prominently featuring a streaming component. To get a UL listing, the equipment had to be essentially consumer ready and been demonstrated to work safely (not necessarily optimally) with each of the features cited in the listing.
> 
> Given the volumes of different kinds of content vying for space on most multimedia handhelds, it seems logical that streaming will figure prominently and that it will be accomplished in a very Sling/HAVA-like manner so that the client device doesn't have to spend a lot of resources on scaling, decrypting or decoding.


And if Directv wants to keep up with the competition such as Dish with Sling Capabilities they would surely want to have Streaming Capabilities in this day and age to satisfy the Gen-Y Generation of Young People and Streaming is one of Morega's Forte and if you look at what they do you would have to conclude that at some point Directv would use them for Streaming as well as Downloading Directv Content to your Mobile Device.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> And if Directv wants to keep up with the competition such as Dish with Sling Capabilities they would surely want to have Streaming Capabilities in this day and age to satisfy the Gen-Y Generation of Young People and Streaming is one of Morega's Forte and if you look at what they do you would have to conclude that at some point Directv would use them for Streaming as well as Downloading Directv Content to your Mobile Device.


Streaming is still quite imperfect, and not the holy grail some would think. Sling has problems with some of its functionality along those lines...try using a Slingbox on a hotel Internet connection some time.

Watching a movie on a 3" mobile phone screen may have a neat demo look to it...but watching it for a real 2 hour movie has little practical value.


----------



## Richierich

Yeah, but how about watching it on my 14" HP Laptop. That should be Pretty Good PQ if you have enough bandwidth/bitrate thruput.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Yeah, but how about watching it on my 14" HP Laptop. That should be Pretty Good PQ *if you have enough bandwidth/bitrate thruput*.


True...with a major *IF*...

It would be interesting if you tried more than one speed tester program to measure your actual internet speeds (up and down). Having done this on numerous PCs...I rarely see the same numbers...few of those software programs measuring actual bitrates are accurate.

The other reality is that the bandwidth channels are clearly following a roadmap of capacity control - meaning - rationing by rates. That will not help the adoption of future streaming applications, as the demand challenges the capacity.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Yeah, but how about watching it on my 14" HP Laptop. *That should be Pretty Good PQ if *you have enough bandwidth/bitrate thruput.


Here's a good speed test...press the blue button in the top center to run it...it'll give you upload and download speeds....see how those *compare* to the program you're running now...

http://www.speedtest.net/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's just one example of why I haven't drank the kool-aid about streaming video...it simply isn't refined for prime time yet...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2631777#post2631777


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's a good speed test...press the blue button in the top center to run it...it'll give you upload and download speeds....see how those *compare* to the program you're running now...
> 
> http://www.speedtest.net/


I use Speedtest all of the time. I was referring to 18 Mbps as being within the DECA Network with Content being delivered to my PC via DIRECT2PC which I thought was Pretty Damn Good Speed even though I know when I am Netstreaming Content to my Laptop it will be nowhere close to that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I use Speedtest all of the time. I was referring to 18 Mbps as being within the DECA Network with Content being delivered to my PC via DIRECT2PC which I thought was Pretty Damn Good Speed even though I know when I am Netstreaming Content to my Laptop it will be nowhere close to that.


DECA is certainly fast.


----------



## xmetalx

Guys, consider this.. even if your hotel internet connection or the like has a good speed, you're uploading it from your home internet connection TO the hotel.. most home internet connections have pretty limited upload, in the range of 512kbps-1.5mbits on average.


----------



## Richierich

You are Only As Fast As The Slowest Link In The Chain. I have been trying to use my Slingbox in my Marriott Vacation Villa in Hawaii and Hilton Head Island and I normally only get about 300 to 400 kbps which will not allow my Slingbox Pro HD to work properly so I am going to buy a Virgin MiFi 2200 to give me Faster Speed and it has No Data Limitations.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Does it need to stream? What about loading/buffering it onto your phone or laptop? You could still choose the size or quality of the file, download it and watch it later. Isn't this how the VOD content works now for the DVR's? Many people can watch the SD version immediately and wait a while for the HD version, others can watch the HD version instantly. It all depends on what kind of internet speeds you can get and are willing to pay for.


----------



## Steve

xmetalx said:


> Guys, consider this.. even if your hotel internet connection or the like has a good speed, you're uploading it from your home internet connection TO the hotel.. most home internet connections have pretty limited upload, in the range of *512kbps-1.5mbits* on average.


Good point, so depends on what your target device is.

For my iPod, I typically transcode 16:9 shows at a variable bit rate that averages out to about *350 kbps* total, including AAC audio. A 1-hour show (i.e. 45 minutes) is typically ~120 MB. That's about 1/5-1/6 the size of iTunes HD videos, but frankly I can't tell the difference when I'm viewing them on an iPod or iPhone (3Gs). I size them at 480x272.

Anything with a larger display, like an iPad or laptop, would require higher resolution and _at least_ a clean 1 mbps, IMO, unless they can be "stream copied" and viewed as the download is in progress, as *Scott *suggests above ^^^. Just my .02.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> Does it need to stream? What about loading/buffering it onto your phone or laptop? You could still choose the size or quality of the file, download it and watch it later. Isn't this how the VOD content works now for the DVR's? Many people can watch the SD version immediately and wait a while for the HD version, others can watch the HD version instantly. It all depends on what kind of internet speeds you can get and are willing to pay for.


We'll see SOON!!!


----------



## Scott Kocourek

"richierich" said:


> We'll see SOON!!!


Soon.


----------



## smiddy

Sooner is better than later!


----------



## Scott Kocourek

WOW 500+ posts and 21,000+ views and it's all speculation! Wait 'til this thing actually surfaces.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> WOW 500+ posts and 21,000+ views and it's all speculation! Wait 'til this thing actually surfaces.


No kidding.

Ants in the pants run rampant in this thread...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No kidding.
> 
> Ants in the pants run rampant in this thread...


Of course if you were to take out my posts, your posts and the two rich's there is about 8 or 10 other posts. :lol:

OK maybe a few more than that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> Of course if you were to take out my posts, your posts and the two rich's there is about 8 or 10 other posts. :lol:
> 
> OK maybe a few more than that.


Not many more.... !rolling

I already sent a 55-gallon drum of Andro to RichieRich...that should cure his ants for a bit.


----------



## Richierich

Well, at the very least Directv could have let me test this Puppy as I would have done at excellent job!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, at the very least Directv could have let me test this Puppy as I would have done at excellent job!!!


We'll be the judge of that.... !rolling


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We'll be the judge of that.... !rolling


You're Sleeping On The Floor in Vegas!!! :lol:

By the way Directv Fanboy have you Finished Testing the Nomad and taking Pictures for the "First Look" with your brand new Canon Powershot Camera???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> You're Sleeping On The Floor in Vegas!!! :lol:
> 
> By the way Directv Fanboy have you Finished Testing the Nomad and taking Pictures for the "First Look" with your brand new Canon Powershot Camera???


ANDRO ANDRO...


----------



## Richierich

Hey, can I help it if I am Overly Excited About Directv's Latest Venture which I will use alot if it is what I think it will be.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Hey, can I help it if I am *Overly Excited *About Directv's Latest Venture which I will use alot if it is what I think it will be.


Perhaps less coffee or Coke would help.


----------



## Richierich

I guess they are working on the Streaming Capabilities of the Nomad Device and testing it before they release it to me.:hurah:


----------



## smiddy

I want me some NOMAD! When will it be available?


----------



## Scott Kocourek

smiddy said:


> I want me some NOMAD! When will it be available?


I hear *SOON* :lol:


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> I want me some NOMAD! When will it be available?


SOON as you and the other Testers get thru Testing it!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> I want me some NOMAD! When will it be available?


Somebody caught the RichieRich Flu... !rolling


scottandregan said:


> I hear *SOON* :lol:


You have good hearing.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> xmetalx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, consider this.. even if your hotel internet connection or the like has a good speed, you're uploading it from your home internet connection TO the hotel.. most home internet connections have pretty limited upload, in the range of 512kbps-1.5mbits on average.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point, so depends on what your target device is.
> 
> For my iPod, I typically transcode 16:9 shows at a variable bit rate that averages out to about *350 kbps* total, including AAC audio. A 1-hour show (i.e. 45 minutes) is typically ~120 MB. That's about 1/5-1/6 the size of iTunes HD videos, but frankly I can't tell the difference when I'm viewing them on an iPod or iPhone (3Gs). I size them at 480x272.
> 
> Anything with a larger display, like an iPad or laptop, would require higher resolution and _at least_ a clean 1 mbps, IMO, unless they can be "stream copied" and viewed as the download is in progress, as *Scott *suggests above ^^^. Just my .02.
Click to expand...

Regarding streaming bit rates, I read with interest the Dish Sling Adapter "upload speed" requirements for VGA and QVGA posted here. Based on my own experience above, something right in the middle of Sling's recommendations is adequate for viewing good quality 16:9 video on my iPhone 3GS screen. YMMV.



> *[Sling Adapter] *System Recommendations for Video Streaming
> Network Requirements HD Streaming Bandwidth of 3 Mbps or higher (same for upstream bandwidth for viewing from outside home network)
> VGA Streaming Bandwidth of 600 Kbps or higher (same for upstream bandwidth for viewing from outside home network)
> QVGA or Mobile Streaming Bandwidth of 150 Kbps or higher (same for upstream bandwidth for viewing from outside home network)


----------



## Richierich

xmetalx said:


> Guys, consider this.. even if your hotel internet connection or the like has a good speed, you're uploading it from your home internet connection TO the hotel.. most home internet connections have pretty limited upload, in the range of 512kbps-1.5mbits on average.


However, if your Device is using Adaptive Bitrate Streaming Technology then it Adjusts the Resolution Dependent Upon the Dynamic Bitrate Experience.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> However, if your Device is using Adaptive Bitrate Streaming Technology then it Adjusts the Resolution Dependent Upon the Dynamic Bitrate Experience.


But of course...no device can increase the speed of a slow hotel Internet connection. 

Boy...Nomad is doing well here on my trip this weekend....oh wait....uh....it isn't out at all yet. :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> But of course...no device can increase the speed of a slow hotel Internet connection.
> 
> Boy...Nomad is doing well here on my trip this weekend....oh wait....uh....it isn't out at all yet. :lol:


DIRECTV called and said if anyone admitted having one they would have to send it to me. Thank You, I'll PM my address.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Boy...Nomad is doing well here on my trip this weekend....oh wait....uh....it isn't out at all yet. :lol:


Hey, I told you it would come in handy on your trip to New Orleans to eat delicious seafood while we are back here slumming it. Take lots of pictures and eat some Seafood for me.

Be careful with my Nomad and don't drop it or break it. :lol:


----------



## Lord Vader

I don't think Nomad has anything to worry about.


----------



## Richierich

Lord Vader said:


> I don't think Nomad has anything to worry about.


Aw, The Emperor Has Spoken!!! All Bow In Honor Of His Nomad Worthiness!!! :lol:


----------



## Lord Vader

Indeed


----------



## Richierich

I found out about this Slingplayer for the Droid Phone which I may do if I can get the IR Blaster to work on my Slingbox Pro HD.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/21/slingplayer-mobile-for-android-ready-to-entertain-you-for-30-st/


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> But of course...no device can increase the speed of a slow hotel Internet connection.


Well, you are Wrong, Fanboy!!!

I was at my Marriott Vacation Villa in Kauai, Hawaii and didn't have Great Speed so I called the Front Desk and Complained and got a number to the company that is in charge of their Internet Services and got it boosted up to a pretty good rate.

Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease. :lol:


----------



## RobertE

richierich said:


> Well, you are Wrong, Fanboy!!!
> 
> I was at my Marriott Vacation Villa in Kauai, Hawaii and didn't have Great Speed so I called the Front Desk and Complained and got a number to the company that is in charge of their Internet Services and got it boosted up to a pretty good rate.
> 
> Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease. :lol:


Although these days, it's becoming easier and cheaper just to replace that squeaky wheel.


----------



## Richierich

RobertE said:


> Although these days, it's becoming easier and cheaper just to replace that squeaky wheel.


You got that Right!!!

We are living in a Plug N Play World where if it breaks you might as well just throw it away.

Just got a New Replacement Slingbox Pro HD because I bought the Extended Warranty/Maintenance Agreement and it Crapped out so they tried everything and now have to send me a Free Replacement even though I paid for some of it with the Maintenance Fee.


----------



## Richierich

I am thinking about buying the Sling Mobile Software for my Droid Phone but I am also wondering when Directv will Release my Nomad so I can enjoy my Directv To Go that way!!!

Come on Directv and Hurry Up the Testing Process. You could have had me Testing out this Bad Boy and we would have been thru by now.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RobertE said:


> Although these days, it's becoming easier and cheaper just to replace that squeaky wheel.


I caught that....not sure some others did...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

RobertE said:


> Although these days, it's becoming easier and cheaper just to *replace that squeaky wheel.*





hdtvfan0001 said:


> I caught that....not sure some others did...


richierich = squeaky wheel. Who could take his place though?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I happened to find my old magic 8 ball in the basement the other day...it told me Nomad was going to be here by XMAS....and you know those are never wrong... :lol:


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I happened to find my old magic 8 ball in the basement the other day...it told me Nomad was going to be here by XMAS....and you know those are never wrong... :lol:


Your Magic 8 Ball is more detailed than mine ever was... :lol:

~Alan


----------



## Doug Brott

Perhaps it's time for the Magic-7 ball ...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Perhaps it's time for the Magic-7 ball ...


...in the corner pocket...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I caught that....not sure some others did...


I got it Fanboy!!! :lol:

But I chose to Ignore it.


----------



## DMG

Comcast seems to be making progress on making good on their promise to turn an iPad into a remote for their DVRs plus allowing remote viewing.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/16/comcast-turns-your-ipad-and-iphone-into-a-sophisticated-remote/

I'm not yet sure how Nomad will fit into providing capabilities like this for DirecTV but I'm sure hoping something like this is forthcoming for DirecTV.


----------



## Richierich

Yes, it may be awhile until Directv's Nomad is ready for the IPAD but you would think with it's popularity that they would want it to be compatible and viable for that device.

Just takes time.


----------



## Steve

DMG said:


> Comcast seems to be making progress on making good on their promise to turn an iPad into a remote for their DVRs plus allowing remote viewing.
> 
> http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/16/comcast-turns-your-ipad-and-iphone-into-a-sophisticated-remote/
> 
> I'm not yet sure how Nomad will fit into providing capabilities like this for DirecTV but I'm sure hoping something like this is forthcoming for DirecTV.


FiOS has an iPhone remote control app, iPad "coming soon". They're promising to actually stream video to an iPad next year. They demo'd it to reporters in August.

Cablevision is reportedly planning to offer iPad streaming as well, but only inside the home.


----------



## harsh

By golly, they may find a use for that iPad thingy yet.


----------



## Hdhead

DMG said:


> Comcast seems to be making progress on making good on their promise to turn an iPad into a remote for their DVRs plus allowing remote viewing.
> 
> http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/16/comcast-turns-your-ipad-and-iphone-into-a-sophisticated-remote/
> 
> I'm not yet sure how Nomad will fit into providing capabilities like this for DirecTV but I'm sure hoping something like this is forthcoming for DirecTV.


I WANT IT! C'mon D*


----------



## Richierich

Well, I got my Slingplayer loaded onto my Droid yesterday and it works Great!!!

Better than I thought it would look.

Now if I can couple that with Nomad hopefully giving us the ability to Download our Directv DVR Recordings onto my PC then I will be Good To Go when traveling.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I happened to find my old magic 8 ball in the basement the other day...it told me Nomad was going to be here by XMAS....and you know those are never wrong... :lol:


I thought that Directv would give me a Nice Christmas Present and NOMAD fits the ticket perfectly!!! Thanks Directv!!!

Now when can I open up my Christmas Present?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I thought that Directv would give me a Nice Christmas Present and NOMAD fits the ticket perfectly!!! Thanks Directv!!!
> 
> Now when can I open up my Christmas Present?


I never said what year, did I....?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Looks like Dish is taking the Sling approach with something similar...only...I still have to question both the idea of attempting live TV via a WIFI or 3G connection, as well as viewing on a 3-4" screen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=186649

I hoping for a leaner and cleaner deployment with NOMAD.


----------



## jford951

Looks like Dish beat directv to the release hope nomad has some better features thats worth the wait


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jford951 said:


> Looks like Dish beat directv to the release hope nomad has some better features thats worth the wait


I suspect there will be as many differences as similarities.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I never said what year, did I....?


Now you are sounding like a TiVo Employee!!! :lol:


----------



## TimeShifter

I'm generally not very happy with Directv these days. Not that there's a better choice. But, nomad could get me back in my happy place.

Then again, given that Directv (like all the other players) likes to nickel and dime on everything, I'm sure they'll find a way to piss me off with nomad.


----------



## Richierich

TimeShifter said:


> I'm generally not very happy with Directv these days. Not that there's a better choice. But, nomad could get me back in my happy place.
> 
> Then again, given that Directv (like all the other players) likes to nickel and dime on everything, I'm sure they'll find a way to piss me off with nomad.


So being that I am Very Happy with Directv and yes they do have some problem areas but with WHDVR Service (MRV) and 7 DVRs with 13 TBs of Storage Capacity I am a Very Happy Camper!!!

Yes it will cost you probably $100 for the Nomad Device itself and probably $5 per month Fee to use it but to have the Ability to Offload a hundred hours of my DVR Recorded Content onto my PC is just the Cherry on top of the Icing on the Directv Cake!!! 

So just what is your beef with Directv as I must be missing something somewhere???


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> I thought that Directv would give me a Nice Christmas Present and NOMAD fits the ticket perfectly!!! Thanks Directv!!!
> 
> Now when can I open up my Christmas Present?


NOMAD is schedule to arrive when BBCA, AMC, and a host of other channels light up in HD.


----------



## Richierich

Lord Vader said:


> NOMAD is schedule to arrive when BBCA, AMC, and a host of other channels light up in HD.


Oh My God!!! I am Not going to get my NOMAD for another Year!!!

I can't live that long without my NOMAD!!!

Batman, there are Evil Doings lurking in Gotham City!!!

Oh Drat The Luck!!! Catwoman you are not a very Nice Person!!! :lol:

It will Never get here if it is tied to BBCA, AMC and Headline News coming to Directv in Glorious HD!!!


----------



## TimeShifter

richierich said:


> So just what is your beef with Directv as I must be missing something somewhere???


I haven't been on the forum in a long time. I actually checked it out today to see if there was any news on D* coming out with a remote control app for iPhone/iPad (after reading about Comcast).

Icing on the cake would be an iPhone/iPad app version of Directv2pc. A huge bonus would be the ability to store/cache content on my iPhone/iPad. Personally, I would never buy some new nomad device, not to mention paying a fee to use it.

My irritation with D* started with MRV. I was a VERY happy beta user. All nicely connected through MY networking equipment. Then it got turned off because they want me to pay a fee for the service. I know, it's just $3. But, it's one more damn fee on top of all the others.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I told you they should have called it *NOTMAD* (as in you should be not mad about it)...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I told you they should have called it *NOTMAD* (as in you should be not mad about it)...


I am NOTMAD just IMPATIENT because I have ANTS in my PANTS and I WANT IT NOW!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I am NOTMAD just IMPATIENT because I have *ANTS in my PANTS *and I WANT IT NOW!!!


Hmmmm...where's my Andro supply...I know its around here somewhere....


----------



## Richierich

Is It Here Yet???


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmmm...where's my Andro supply...I know its around here somewhere....


That will get you on the no fly list. :lol:

Guess you won't be needing that NOMAD.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> That will get you on the no fly list. :lol:
> 
> Guess you won't be needing that NOMAD.


:lol:

On a side note...following the Sling announcement on the Dish side of the house...it seems things are already falling apart slightly on the initial excitement over what was announced... :eek2:

I still believe NOMAD will go beyond that other device in several ways.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I still believe NOMAD will go beyond that other device in several ways.


Enlighten Mr. Grasshopper Master Po as I am sitting at your feet with baited breath and anticipation of just what this NOMAD Device will entail!!!

Let R Rip Po Boy!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Enlighten Mr. Grasshopper Master Po as I am sitting at your feet with baited breath and anticipation of just what this NOMAD Device will entail!!!
> 
> Let R Rip Po Boy!!!


Somebody's been bathing in Obsession...


----------



## wco81

davring said:


> The Slingbox lets me stream to any computer or my iPhone. A capture card lets me take any DVR content and convert it to DVD or MPEG4 to put on portable devices. But to have all this incorporated into the DVD software would be fantastic. Send me the survey


Slingbox would only allow streams, right? I think it would be useful to send the recordings, transcode it to something like an iPad so that you can view it offline (as on a plane for instance).

Does DirectTV HD DVRs allow you to capture content on a capture card? Oh you're probably talking about PC video cards with video or component in?


----------



## wco81

TimeShifter said:


> I haven't been on the forum in a long time. I actually checked it out today to see if there was any news on D* coming out with a remote control app for iPhone/iPad (after reading about Comcast).
> 
> Icing on the cake would be an iPhone/iPad app version of Directv2pc. A huge bonus would be the ability to store/cache content on my iPhone/iPad. Personally, I would never buy some new nomad device, not to mention paying a fee to use it.
> 
> My irritation with D* started with MRV. I was a VERY happy beta user. All nicely connected through MY networking equipment. Then it got turned off because they want me to pay a fee for the service. I know, it's just $3. But, it's one more damn fee on top of all the others.


Exactly my sentiments. I won't pay for this feature, when other carries are apparently offering remote viewing capabilities as a way to retain/attract customers.

My contract is done so I'm not going to be paying for any more add-ons like MRV.

And yeah, since other companies are rushing to support iPad and other mobile devices, they better not have some proprietary device.

I just started playing around with Air Video and Zumocast on the iPad. Very cheap or free apps. and you can stream all kinds of video formats or transcode and transfer the content for offline viewing (on flights for example).

Now, I also have a lot of shows and movies on my HR22 that I'd like to load as well for upcoming trips. Sling box is a possibility but that is extra cost upfront (and who knows what they'll charge for their iPad app) and Internet connections in hotels are not reliable for video.

If tablets take off as many predict, tablet support will become a must, not a nice to have thing. Probably more useful than the mobile apps. for scheduling recordings.


----------



## HoTat2

wco81 said:


> Slingbox would only allow streams, right? I think it would be useful to send the recordings, transcode it to something like an iPad so that you can view it offline (as on a plane for instance).
> 
> Does DirectTV HD DVRs allow you to capture content on a capture card? *Oh you're probably talking about PC video cards with video or component in?*


The later, and this will be the big (or certainly one of the biggest) question about Nomad. Will it allow actual downloading of the files to a computer or other portable media device.

So far whether it is DirecTV or even dish, they only allow for various streaming functions and just don't seem to want to actually let the files leave the HDD they were originally recorded to in a "TIVO-to-go" like feature.


----------



## wco81

Other thing these companies need to take into account is that Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Unboxed are getting on everything, including mobile devices.

As people become more acquainted with those services, they might start doing the math and realizing how much money they can save by dropping cable or satellite.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

wco81 said:


> Other thing these companies need to take into account is that Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Unboxed are getting on everything, including mobile devices.
> 
> As people become more acquainted with those services, they might start doing the math and realizing how much money they can save by dropping cable or satellite.


Not until they become reliable, not dependent on inconsistent Internet download services, and despite the trend of Internet providers starting to restrict monthly capacity.

If anything, those services should be concerned about *their future *for download services where most potential customers have no Internet, poor Internet, slow Internet, or limited monthly capacity Internet...

In my area alone - 2 different ISP's have started limited their customers to download limits that would render them useless to customers using download video services with any regularity.


----------



## Richierich

There is only one Aircard that I know of that is Unlimited and that is the Virgin MiFi 2200 Hotspot Card and I don't know how much longer it will be Unlimited so bandwidth will be decreased and limited in the future.


----------



## Satelliteracer

jford951 said:


> Looks like Dish beat directv to the release hope nomad has some better features thats worth the wait


Their release this week was just an extension of the sling capabilities. Nothing really new.


----------



## Richierich

Satman, do you have a copy of their Release Info?


----------



## harsh

Satelliteracer said:


> Their release this week was just an extension of the sling capabilities. Nothing really new.


The integration is new -- no additional video, audio or network cabling required.

When DIRECTV introduces a similarly functional and integrated device, I'd be surprised if they didnt' make it sound like they originated the concept of remote streaming (or downloading).


----------



## Richierich

harsh said:


> The integration is new -- no additional video, audio or network cabling required.
> 
> When DIRECTV introduces a similarly functional and integrated device, I'd be surprised if they didnt' make it sound like they originated the concept of remote streaming (or downloading).


Yeah, they just might do that but I am surprised they didn't call it DIRECTV2GO instead of NOMAD!!!


----------



## HoTat2

harsh said:


> *The integration is new* -- no additional video, audio or *network cabling required.*
> 
> When DIRECTV introduces a similarly functional and integrated device, I'd be surprised if they didnt' make it sound like they originated the concept of remote streaming (or downloading).


Can you clarify what you mean by a "new integration" for an external "Sling Adapter" connected to a ViP722(k) and how is there no new network cabling needed when it requires a USB connection on its input and a cat5(e) or 6 ethernet one for connection to either the router or possibly an ethernet switch somewhere on the home network?


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> Yeah, they just might do that but I am surprised they didn't call it DIRECTV2GO instead of NOMAD!!!


They surrendered the DIRECTV2Go name a couple of years ago, so it isn't entirely surprising.


----------



## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by a "new integration" for an external "Sling Adapter" connected to a ViP722(k) and how is there no new network cabling needed when it requires a USB connection on its input and a cat5(e) or 6 ethernet one for connection to either the router or possibly an ethernet switch somewhere on the home network?


It uses the LAN connection of the host DVR. No IR blaster, wall wart, Ethernet cable/wireless dongle, video or audio cables.

I would hope that the NOMAD would use its host as much as possible as well.


----------



## wco81

But do the HR DVRs have the horsepower to do any kind of efficient streaming or transcoding?


----------



## sigma1914

wco81 said:


> But do the HR DVRs have the horsepower to do any kind of efficient streaming or transcoding?


MRV?


----------



## wco81

How about the HR20 and HR22?


----------



## sigma1914

wco81 said:


> How about the HR20 and HR22?


They're MRV compatible.


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> MRV?


MRV isn't exactly what I would call "efficient streaming" and there is definitely no transcoding involved. So the answer is no, which is why Nomad is necessary in the first place.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> MRV isn't exactly what I would call "efficient streaming" and there is definitely no transcoding involved. So the answer is no, which is why Nomad is necessary in the first place.


Your explanation makes lots of sense, especially regarding the lack of transcoding through WHDS (MRV). Nice post.


----------



## sigma1914

Jeremy W said:


> MRV isn't exactly what I would call "efficient streaming" and there is definitely no transcoding involved. So the answer is no, which is why Nomad is necessary in the first place.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Your explanation makes lots of sense, especially regarding the lack of transcoding through WHDS (MRV). Nice post.


That's why I asked...I was unsure. Thanks for educating me.


----------



## Doug Brott

Jeremy W said:


> MRV isn't exactly what I would call "efficient streaming" and there is definitely no transcoding involved. So the answer is no, which is why Nomad is necessary in the first place.


Yeah, there's not really any attempt to adjust the encoding in MRV and you really don't wanna be taking 6GB/hr around with you (either via remote connection or even via an offline transfer). Plus with smart phones a much smaller resolution anyway, there's a savings by simply transcoding from full HD to 480x320 HD (smart phone size). Hopefully this is the type of functionally that can be provided with Nomad.


----------



## wco81

What about making PC (and Mac) clients which can decrypt the files and then use other software to transcode?

Oh but I guess that would be a lost revenue opportunity if they just hand over the keys to the store, so to speak.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> What about making PC (and Mac) clients which can decrypt the files and then use other software to transcode?
> 
> Oh but I guess that would be a lost revenue opportunity if they just hand over the keys to the store, so to speak.


It's not just lost revenue, it would greatly piss off the content providers. Which is why DirecTV would never do it. Technically, it's not difficult to do at all.


----------



## wco81

OK then write that DirectTV2PC client to transcode.

Write the iOS app. to decrypt and playback transcoded recordings.

At some point, they have to allow playback on another device. Even if they come out with some proprietary player, content owners aren't going to like the fact that people can view content in more than one context after having paid for only viewing at home.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> content owners aren't going to like the fact that people can view content in more than one context after having paid for only viewing at home.


It's called fair use, and it's not like this will be the first device that allows this.


----------



## harsh

wco81 said:


> But do the HR DVRs have the horsepower to do any kind of efficient streaming or transcoding?


That's the purpose of the external box.


----------



## SWORDFISH

Lord Vader said:


> NOMAD is schedule to arrive when BBCA, AMC, and a host of other channels light up in HD.


So, are they are going to release 41 PPV versions of NOMAD first ?

Or, will Sales negotiate with Development over the release date and accuse them of refusing to Tango ?

SF


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SWORDFISH said:


> So, are they are going to release 41 PPV versions of NOMAD first ?
> 
> Or, will Sales negotiate with Development over the release date and accuse them of refusing to Tango ?
> 
> SF


Irrelevant questions...but then...you probably knew that.


----------



## JosephB

I'm late to the conversation, but I didn't see this mentioned. On the Morega website it shows that they're a member of the Rvu Alliance. Maybe that will go towards the streaming capability of the product..all they'd have to do is create a software Rvu client for Windows and Mac OS (and mobile devices too, for that matter) to enable streaming with a full DirecTV interface.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JosephB said:


> I'm late to the conversation, but I didn't see this mentioned. On the Morega website it shows that they're a member of the Rvu Alliance. Maybe that will go towards the streaming capability of the product..all they'd have to do is create a software Rvu client for Windows and Mac OS (and mobile devices too, for that matter) to enable streaming with a full DirecTV interface.


Since DirecTV is also a member of the RVU Alliance...certainly compatibility should be no issue. The UI...not so sure about that part.


----------



## JosephB

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Since DirecTV is also a member of the RVU Alliance...certainly compatibility should be no issue. The UI...not so sure about that part.


Well, I actually didn't mean in a generic Morega product trying to work with a DirecTV receiver.

I meant that if DirecTV is contracting Morega to adapt one of their platforms for Nomad, Morega is a member of Rvu (which when this thread started, I don't believe they were), and DirecTV is also a member of Rvu, it is not a leap to think that DirecTV would encourage/request/require/whatever that the new product, if it were to have a streaming feature, would use Rvu to do so. All of that considered, the fact that Morega is now a member of Rvu just seems to be interesting. Given DirecTV's close ties to content providers, I still wouldn't hold out much hope that streaming will be part of the product.


----------



## HoTat2

JosephB said:


> I'm late to the conversation, but I didn't see this mentioned. On the Morega website it shows that they're a member of the Rvu Alliance. Maybe that will go towards the streaming capability of the product..all they'd have to do is create a software Rvu client for Windows and Mac OS (and mobile devices too, for that matter) to enable streaming with a full DirecTV interface.


Certainly possible, but rather inefficient though wouldn't it be?

Since aren't you basically treating the computers and Smart Phones now as essentially "dumb" RVU clients and not really taking advantage of their greater processing power. And then shifting the main workload to the NOMAD unit, which may have far less processing power (at least compared to a computer client) to generate and manage the interactive UI as well as preform its primary function to transcode and stream (and/or hopefully file transfer  ) TV programs?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JosephB said:


> Well, I actually didn't mean in a generic Morega product trying to work with a DirecTV receiver.
> 
> I meant that if DirecTV is contracting Morega to adapt one of their platforms for Nomad, Morega is a member of Rvu (which when this thread started, I don't believe they were), and DirecTV is also a member of Rvu, it is not a leap to think that DirecTV would encourage/request/require/whatever that the new product, if it were to have a streaming feature, would use Rvu to do so. All of that considered, the fact that Morega is now a member of Rvu just seems to be interesting. Given DirecTV's close ties to content providers, I still wouldn't hold out much hope that streaming will be part of the product.


I understood what you meant....points well taken.

Certainly DirecTV would be the one to supply their business and operational requirements if that's who is contracted. The only issue with the UI, is that in theory, DirecTV could retain ownership/design of that part if they chose to do so.


----------



## JosephB

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I understood what you meant....points well taken.
> 
> Certainly DirecTV would be the one to supply their business and operational requirements if that's who is contracted. The only issue with the UI, is that in theory, DirecTV could retain ownership/design of that part if they chose to do so.


But that's the whole point of Rvu, the UI is generated by the server (the set top box) and not the client. And it seems that this is likely to be sold by DirecTV as a DirecTV product, so ownership of IP doesn't really matter so much.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JosephB said:


> But that's the whole point of Rvu, the UI is generated by the server (the set top box) and not the client. And it seems that this is likely to be sold by DirecTV as a DirecTV product, so ownership of IP doesn't really matter so much.


Nomad will likely be a stream-content-to-another-device-so-you-can-watch-it-on-there transport unit, as opposed to a traditional server/client UI device playback device. That's not to say it wouldn't work that way either.

I guess until we see it, we won't know for sure how the UI will work.

Since it may require updates in the future, for that reason, I was of the thought that DirecTV would prefer to retain the UI controls.


----------



## Richierich

Does anyone know if Nomad will be out by Christmas or the End of the Year???

I need it when I go to Las Vegas on Jan. 6th for the 2011 CES.


----------



## HoTat2

richierich said:


> Does anyone know if Nomad will be out by Christmas or the End of the Year???
> 
> I need it when I go to Las Vegas on Jan. 6th for the 2011 CES.


I imagine those who really may know like Satelliteracer are of course under strict NDA and certainly can't say. :sure:


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> Does anyone know if Nomad will be out by Christmas or the End of the Year???


Soon


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Does anyone know if Nomad will be out by Christmas or the End of the Year???
> 
> I *need* it when I go to Las Vegas on Jan. 6th for the 2011 CES.


*Need?*


----------



## wco81

Then again, Tivo was suppose to be back for D* by now right?

So it may be one of those things that they talk about and takes a couple of years for them to actually deliver.


----------



## Richierich

I would bet that Nomad would be out by the 1st Quarter of 2011 and perhaps by the End of the Year but I was just wondering if Directv had stated recently when it might be out.


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> I would bet that Nomad would be out by the 1st Quarter of 2011 and perhaps by the End of the Year but I was just wondering if Directv had stated recently when it might be out.


If it hasn't been announced by now, I'd guess that they're not going to announce it this year.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> If it hasn't been announced by now, I'd guess that they're not going to announce it this year.


The announcement can come at any time....the availability of it is another timeline.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The announcement can come at any time....the availability of it is another timeline.


Good Point!!! I guess it will be here when it gets here.

Drat The Luck, Batman!!!


----------



## HoTat2

wco81 said:


> Then again, Tivo was suppose to be back for D* by now right?
> 
> So it may be one of those things that they talk about and takes a couple of years for them to actually deliver.


I would agree with that possibility if like NOMAD Satelliteracer made a similar statement about the new HD DTIVO as coming "soon" two years ago and here we are today with still no appearance.

But he didn't of course, or at least not to my knowledge, and when he says something is coming soon it usually really does.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> Then again, Tivo was suppose to be back for D* by now right?


It was supposed to be back a long time ago. But Tivo is notorious for delays, so it's no surprise that we still don't have it. And by now, they've blown any chance they had for real penetration.


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> I would bet that Nomad would be out by the 1st Quarter of 2011 and perhaps by the End of the Year but I was just wondering if Directv had stated recently when it might be out.


Would be nice if they would do a public testing of a RC.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The announcement can come at any time....the availability of it is another timeline.


Given the prevailing attitude towards vaporware and underestimating demand, it is probably best that they don't announce anything until they have the supply flowing.


----------



## HoTat2

harsh said:


> Given the prevailing attitude towards vaporware and underestimating demand, it is probably best that they don't announce anything until they have the supply flowing.


No, not necessarily. Like just about every other new equipment release from DirecTV it will surely be first announced on this site somewhat before actual mass production and availability as a "First Look" presentation prepared by a few longtime members here who are surely participating in the trial testing of the NOMAD unit right now, and are of course under strict NDA.

Then after another waiting period as production ramps up, and yes more complaint threads around here about "when is it going to become available?"  It will then suddenly become available from DirecTV followed later on by the retail outlets and eventually ebay of course,

The standard release pattern ...


----------



## Jeremy W

HoTat2 said:


> and are of course under strict NDA.


I've never signed an NDA for any of the field trials I've participated in. By the time a product gets to field testing stage, DirecTV isn't *that* concerned about keeping it under wraps. It's basically just a virtual "handshake agreement" that you're not going to talk about it outside of official channels.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Given the prevailing attitude towards vaporware and underestimating demand, it is probably best that they don't announce anything until they have the supply flowing.


There is some truth to that....but Nomad won't be for most everyone like HD DVR's, for example.

It also won't be offered free.


----------



## harsh

I'm pretty sure that UL listing demands that production models must be evaluated.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> I'm pretty sure that UL listing demands that production models must be evaluated.


Which has likely already happened.


----------



## smiddy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Which has likely already happened.


Really?! Man I want a NOMAD badly!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Really?! Man I want a NOMAD badly!


Join the craving line...RichieRich keeps trying to skip in line. :lol:


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There is some truth to that....but Nomad won't be for most everyone like HD DVR's, for example.


Smart phones weren't for everyone either, but they're probably going to sell a whole lot of them before the end of the year.

NOMAD should have major appeal for these customers -- theoretically allowing them to reduce fees paid to some other subscription service.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Which has likely already happened.


It was arguably codespy's post #39 of the September 7th approval that got this thread going in the right direction.


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> Really?! Man I want a NOMAD badly!


Hey, that's my Line!!! Don't be stealing my Thunder!!! :lol:

I Want My NOMAD And I Want It Now!!! 

How can you Skip in Line when you are Number 1???


----------



## Mike Bertelson

richierich said:


> Hey, that's my Line!!! Don't be stealing my Thunder!!! :lol:
> 
> I Want My NOMAD And I Want It Now!!!
> 
> How can you Skip in Line when you are Number 1???


Now, yeah now would be good. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> It was arguably codespy's post #39 of the September 7th approval that got this thread going in the right direction.


Of course the only significant news in this thread is that this will be exclusive to DirecTV. 


richierich said:


> Hey, that's my Line!!! Don't be stealing my Thunder!!! :lol:
> 
> I Want My NOMAD And I Want It Now!!!
> 
> How can you Skip in Line when you are Number 1???





MicroBeta said:


> Now, yeah now would be good.
> 
> Mike


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## wco81

Hmm, maybe something like this already provides the functionality that Nomad is expected to provide.

http://www.myvulkano.com/products.html


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I'll be happy to wait a little while to get one that works seamlessly with my DIRECTV setup. Hopefully it's sooner than later.


----------



## Richierich

I'm sure it will have a lot of similarities in Functionality but it will provide it via different means.

I would think at first that it might just be an "Offloader of Directv Recorded Content onto your Mobile Device".

Perhaps then they may move to Netstreaming Capabilities but they could just surprise us all and have both capabilities which would make me a Very Happy Camper!!!


----------



## Lord Vader

scottandregan said:


> I'll be happy to wait a little while to get one that works seamlessly with my DIRECTV setup. Hopefully it's sooner than later.


Soon


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Lord Vader said:


> Soon


!rolling


----------



## Drucifer

I thought _Nomad_ was software, but some posts here make it sound like it could be hardware of what, I can't guess.


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> I thought _Nomad_ was software, but some posts here make it sound like it could be hardware of what, I can't guess.


IMHO, probably a "black box" dedicated to the transcoding of large HD MPEG-4 files to reasonably-sized MP4 video files a portable device can handle. Speculation is the HR's don't have enough horsepower to handle this processing, and if it was sent to Nomad software on a networked PC, it would be limited to only customers who had PC's powerful enough to do the job.

I'm thinking the Nomad "black box" will transcode the files and deliver them to whichever PC you normally sync your portable video device with. Pure guess on my part, tho.


----------



## Jeremy W

Drucifer said:


> I thought _Nomad_ was software, but some posts here make it sound like it could be hardware of what, I can't guess.


We know it's hardware.


----------



## Lord Vader

Indeed. I've posted a picture of NOMAD a couple times already.


----------



## Drucifer

You're a riot Alice!


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> IMHO, probably a "black box" dedicated to the transcoding of large HD MPEG-4 files to reasonably-sized MP4 video files a portable device can handle. Speculation is the HR's don't have enough horsepower to handle this processing, and if it was sent to Nomad software on a networked PC, it would be limited to only customers who had PC's powerful enough to do the job.
> 
> I'm thinking the Nomad "black box" will transcode the files and deliver them to whichever PC you normally sync your portable video device with. Pure guess on my part, tho.


I think you are pretty close but it also could be a "Black Box" with a Hard Drive that you would attach to your Mobile Device to send the MP4 Videos to that Device. Or it would just Allow you to Offload Your Recorded Directv Content directly onto your device such as a PC or Droid Phone and then take it with you for Playback later.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> I think you are pretty close but it also could be a "Black Box" with a Hard Drive that you would attach to your Mobile Device to send the MP4 Videos to that Device [...]


I was thinking about the iOS devices (iPod, iPhones and iPads). I think you can only get content on them via iTunes, so a PC needs to be involved somewhere. Might work both ways, tho, for other devices.


----------



## Karen

If it isn't live streaming, I don't want it! <g>


----------



## wco81

Actually, there are apps like Air Video and Zumocast which lets you send the video, either as a live stream to view or as a transcoded file to store for viewing later, to the iPad directly.

But you have to first have that file on a PC or Mac, where you install their server software which does the transcoding and then sends it to the iOS device.

In the case of Zumocast, you don't need another piece of hardware to stream over the Internet.

So conceivably, it could all be done in software but it would require decrypting and then streaming the file over to the PC or Mac, from which it could be transcoded.

Maybe the HR DVRs don't have the horsepower to send files over to PCs or Macs either, never mind transcode on the fly. It does seem when you download on-demand files, it takes pretty long, as long as the length of the program or movie that you're downloading itself.

Seems like all it would need is a DLNA server type of software to run on the DVR and then a DLNA client on the PC or Mac.


----------



## smiddy

richierich said:


> Hey, that's my Line!!! Don't be stealing my Thunder!!! :lol:
> 
> I Want My NOMAD And I Want It Now!!!
> 
> How can you Skip in Line when you are Number 1???


Sorry man!  Excuse me, please.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Sorry man!  Excuse me, please.


Welcome to the back of the bus.

Richie is nowhere near Numero Uno. :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

Karen said:


> If it isn't live streaming, I don't want it! <g>


If all you want is live streaming, why not just get a Slingbox? It's been available for years, it's proven technology, and it has no monthly fees.


----------



## Karen

Yes, I know there are other alternatives, and I just might go with one of them if Directv doesn't come up with what I want... I had no need for something like that before, but probably will in the near future.


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> If all you want is live streaming, why not just get a Slingbox? It's been available for years, it's proven technology, and it has no monthly fees.


I've got Slingbox both on my Droid and my PC but what I want now is Directv Recordings on my PC so I can watch in the airport or on the airplane as I am flying to Hawaii or Europe.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Karen said:


> Yes, I know there are other alternatives, and I just might go with one of them if Directv doesn't come up with what I want... I had no need for something like that before, but probably will in the near future.


Streaming is highly limiting, not to mention unreliable in many locations.

Having the ability to offload any recordings from your HD DVRs, and view them on all sorts of portable devices (laptops, iPads, smartphones, etc.) would seem to provide you with more options.

NOMAD is approaching, and will be here *in the near future*


----------



## Steve

I too favor the "transcode/copy" approach, when possible, but I would imagine streaming would come in _very _handy for folks out of town who, e.g., want to catch their favorite teams on their local RSN's or simply want to watch a show their DVR recorded while they were away.

Based on my own testing, 250/350 kbps is all that's required for good/very good quality MP4 video on a 4" Droid or iPhone screen, so certainly do-able. Just my .02.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> I too favor the "transcode/copy" approach, when possible, but I would imagine streaming would come in _very _handy for folks out of town who, e.g., want to catch their favorite teams on their local RSN's or simply want to watch a show their DVR may have recorded since they were away.
> 
> Based on my own testing, 350 kbps is all that's required for very good quality on a 4" Droid or iPhone screen, so certainly do-able. Just my .02.


With having a Slingbox here...I've tested while traveling in at least 15 airports and 50 hotels...and 100-200Kbps is about average...so still very unstable and insufficient for quality streaming purposes in many places. I actually get better results with my Verizon aircard than WIFI.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> I too favor the "transcode/copy" approach, when possible, but I would imagine streaming would come in _very _handy for folks out of town who, e.g., want to catch their favorite teams on their local RSN's or simply want to watch a show their DVR recorded while they were away.
> 
> Based on my own testing, 250/350 kbps is all that's required for good/very good quality MP4 video on a 4" Droid or iPhone screen, so certainly do-able. Just my .02.


And 250/350 kbps is the "Best" I get at my Marriott Vacation Villas and sometimes it is less than 250 kbps and my Slingbox Pixellates and has Macro Blocking so I may opt for the Virgin MiFi 2200 which is the Only Unlimited 3G Air Card out there that I know of.

The Verizon Air Card has a Limit of 5 GB now, Bah Humbug.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> And 250/350 kbps is the "Best" I get at my Marriott Vacation Villas and sometimes it is less than 250 kbps and my Slingbox Pixellates and has Macro Blocking so I may opt for the Virgin MiFi 2200 which is the Only Unlimited 3G Air Card out there that I know of.
> 
> *The Verizon Air Card has a Limit of 5 GB now, Bah Humbug*.


But of course unlike your other options named...*it works*.


----------



## Drucifer

Jeremy W said:


> If all you want is live streaming, why not just get a Slingbox? It's been available for years, it's proven technology, and it has no monthly fees.


I'm wondering what *Nomad* can do that *Slingbox* can't too? Because to me, this sounds like they're trying to reinvent the wheel.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> I'm wondering what *Nomad* can do that *Slingbox* can't too? Because to me, this sounds like they're trying to reinvent the wheel.


They will be a great deal different.

Sling is predominantly designed for offsite real-time streaming.

NOMAD is for HD DVR offloading of content (mobile) to other devices for playback (laptops, iPads, smartphones, etc.). There may be a streaming capability with NOMAD as well, but that is yet to be determined.


----------



## Lord Vader

And with Slingbox dependent on a reliable connection, it doesn't appear to be as consistently good as watching a downloaded recording.


----------



## Steve

Lord Vader said:


> And with Slingbox dependent on a reliable connection, it doesn't appear to be as consistently good as watching a downloaded recording.


Also don't forget a third option. A streamed "copy" that you could download to your device, and _then_ watch locally.

Re: real-time streaming vs. copying, I would only try to RT stream shows recorded _after _I left home, or to watch live TV on a local channel that is unavailable in my new location. Otherwise, I'd love to leave home with a Droid or iPhone filled with transcoded recordings from my playlist.


----------



## Drucifer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> They will be a great deal different.
> 
> Sling is predominantly designed for offsite real-time streaming.
> 
> NOMAD is for HD DVR offloading of content (mobile) to other devices for playback (laptops, iPads, smartphones, etc.). There may be a streaming capability with NOMAD as well, but that is yet to be determined.


Well you make *Nomad* sound like something that should be part of every DVR.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> Well you make *Nomad* sound like something that should be part of every DVR.


Not sure where you got that idea...but having it PART OF every DVR seems silly...since it will be *optiona*l and would raise the cost to those who don't want/need it. Not a good strategy.


----------



## Drucifer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure where you got that idea...but having it PART OF every DVR seems silly...since it will be *optiona*l and would raise the cost to those who don't want/need it. Not a good strategy.


Well I prefer a single piece of equipment rather then a wire nightmare.

Just ask any CSR how many TRs they get because of a loose connection.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> Well I prefer a single piece of equipment *rather then a wire nightmare*.
> 
> Just ask any CSR how many TRs they get because of a lose connection.


!rolling

Yeah...one or two wires is *really* complicated. :lol:


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> Well I prefer a single piece of equipment rather then a wire nightmare.
> 
> Just ask any CSR how many TRs they get because of a *[loose]* connection.


Agree. The less connections, the less chance for physical errors. That said, I assume DirecTV wants to make this product available to the widest possible audience, so to support the millions of existing HR's in the field, it would need to be an "add-on", IMHO.


----------



## reweiss

Just some thoughts...

It would be nice if Nomad were almost like a streaming router that can access all DVRs and remotely access the recorded programs. 

If DTV wanted to take it a step further they could also create an interface where you can manage all of your Series options from a central location and remove duplicates. 

If the box was a the central point in your home, you might be also be able to watch live programs and possibly multiple sports shows at the same time using more than one receiver at once; This way you can access all of the programming you pay for while on the road.

I would love to see an application for game systems like XBox 360 where you can access your shows in another home and still be able to watch them on a TV.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Some neat ideas...but not likely what NOMAD will be about the primariy goal is taking your recordings mobile.


----------



## Drucifer

Steve said:


> Agree. The less connections, the less chance for physical errors. That said, I assume DirecTV wants *to make this product available to the widest possible audience*, so to support the millions of existing HR's in the field, it would need to be an "add-on", IMHO.


That makes sense. And 'add-on' offered turn into 'on-board.'


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> That makes sense. And 'add-on' offered turn into 'on-board.'


Makes no sense...as the goal is something entirely different.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I see a copy to device, stream to device, stream/copy to device for later watching, and possibly a back-up option. I belive that the Morega website says they can make a back-up that will store saved info at 1/10th the original space. I don't know if I'm anywhere in the ballpark but that's what I'm thinkin'.


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> That makes sense. And 'add-on' offered turn into 'on-board.'


Ya never know. Perhaps the "HR25", or whatever is coming down the pike next, will have a card-slot, like some of the Dish receivers for the optional OTA module.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> I see a copy to device, stream to device, stream/copy to device for later watching, and possibly a back-up option. I belive that the Morega website says they can make a back-up that will store saved info at 1/10th the original space. I don't know if I'm anywhere in the ballpark but that's what I'm thinkin'.


I'm thinkin your thinkin is thinkin pretty much on target.


----------



## Doug Brott

Drucifer said:


> That makes sense. And 'add-on' offered turn into 'on-board.'


Food for thought .. If this is hardware, and "one" per home would work, why would you want to pay for 3 or 4 of them if you have multiple DVRs?


----------



## Scott Kocourek

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm thinkin your thinkin is thinkin pretty much on target.


Now if I could only get one to verify my thinkin'. I'm just not sure if I'm ahead of Richierich in line or behind. :lol:


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> Food for thought .. If this is hardware, and "one" per home would work, why would you want to pay for 3 or 4 of them if you have multiple DVRs?


If only one is required, makes sense. That said, it could be offered as an optional expansion module for a future model HR.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Doug Brott said:


> Food for thought .. If this is hardware, and "one" per home would work, why would you want to pay for 3 or 4 of them if you have multiple DVRs?


Right, with the ability to access all dvr's from one it doesn't seem cost effective to put it every machine.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Maybe you would drop it into the HMC with the assumption that there would only be one unit in the home. Kind of the ultimate DVR.


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> Food for thought .. If this is hardware, and "one" per home would work, why would you want to pay for 3 or 4 of them if you have multiple DVRs?


You wouldn't want to have more than one unless "one" Nomad unit can only access "one" DVR which doesn't make sense. I believe the Nomad would have the ability to communicate with every DVR in the WHDVR System and then you Select which DVR you want to see as we do presently with DIRECTV2PC and then Select the Recording you want to Offload and then Select Offload (of course you are connected to your PC via your USB Cable). Then you Select some more Recordings until you are thru with that particular DVR then you Select the next DVR and continue....!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Food for thought .. If this is hardware, and "one" per home would work, why would you want to pay for 3 or 4 of them if you have multiple DVRs?





scottandregan said:


> Now if I could only get one to verify my thinkin'. I'm just not sure if I'm ahead of Richierich in line or behind. :lol:





scottandregan said:


> Right, with the ability to access all dvr's from one it doesn't seem cost effective to put it every machine.





richierich said:


> You wouldn't want to have more than one unless "one" Nomad unit can only access "one" DVR which doesn't make sense. I believe the Nomad would have the ability to communicate with every DVR in the WHDVR System ...





scottandregan said:


> Right, with the ability to access all dvr's from one it doesn't seem cost effective to put it every machine.


You're all starting to make way too much sense. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're all starting to make way too much sense. :lol:


Scary Thought isn't is when I start making sense.


----------



## Richierich

scottandregan said:


> Now if I could only get one to verify my thinkin'. I'm just not sure if I'm ahead of Richierich in line or behind. :lol:


Scott, get a Grip on Yourself, being Second is no Slouch so Pride yourself on being Number 2 and besides you will be right next to me, Olde Number One in case you need to ask me how to operate this Nomad Thingy!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Scott, get a Grip on Yourself, *being Second is no Slouch *so Pride yourself on being Number 2 and besides you will be right next to me, Olde Number One in case you need to ask me how to operate this Nomad Thingy!!! :lol:


Remember those words for the future...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> Scott, get a Grip on Yourself, being Second is no Slouch so Pride yourself on being Number 2 and besides you will be right next to me, Olde Number One in case you need to ask me how to operate this Nomad Thingy!!! :lol:


!rolling I knew you wouldn't be a happy second, um or third if you are behind hd. :lol:


----------



## smiddy

You guys are silly, you all know The Ogre is the Ogre!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> !rolling I knew you wouldn't be a happy second, um or third if you are behind hd. :lol:





smiddy said:


> You guys are silly, you all know The Ogre is the Ogre!


Not to worry...some of us will wave as the bandwagon passes you by. :lol:


----------



## Groundhog45

Sounds to me like some people around here may already have access to inside info or beta units.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure where you got that idea...but having it PART OF every DVR seems silly...since it will be *optiona*l and would raise the cost to those who don't want/need it. Not a good strategy.


And having two Ethernet jacks with a built-in hub was a stroke of genius?


----------



## smiddy

Groundhog45 said:


> Sounds to me like some people around here may already have access to inside info or beta units.


Man I wish...oh, you meant Mr. HDTV, he's got nut'ting!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Man I wish...oh, you meant Mr. HDTV, he's got nut'ting!


I'm in the same shopping line as everyone else....


----------



## Richierich

Groundhog45 said:


> Sounds to me like some people around here may already have access to inside info or beta units.


No, but just good at researching and playing the Speculation and Guessing Game!!! :lol:

However, it looks to be about the size of a Pack of Cigarettes with an Ethernet Port and a USB Port and it is Black with 2 LEDs on the Front!!! :lol:


----------



## Bob Coxner

There's another new product that mostly falls into this category. AirStash. http://www.airstash.com/ Basically, it's a USB flash drive that contains its' own WiFi transmitter. It accepts SD cards up to 32gb. It's a cheap way to add storage space for media to an iPad, Touch, cell phone, etc.


----------



## Steve

Bob Coxner said:


> There's another new product that mostly falls into this category. AirStash. http://www.airstash.com/ Basically, it's a USB flash drive that contains its' own WiFi transmitter. It accepts SD cards up to 32gb. It's a cheap way to add storage space for media to an iPad, Touch, cell phone, etc.


Very cool idea, IMHO. This particular review indicates the product may need a bit more polishing, however. Hopefully it's a work in progress.

_"*Conclusion:* The AirStash works (kind of), but its software interface to the outside world is very awkward and its weakest point. The AirStash inventors really need to consider writing a native iOS app that accesses their device directly to make things a lot easier for iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad users. You could consider the Airstash to be a good idea, but the badly-implemented software makes it less than pleasant to use most of the time. Future AirStash firmware updates may address some of these issues, but for the time being I can honestly say that after spending time with my AirStash I regret having bought it in its current form."_


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I'm anticipating NOMAD to be something more in line with an external DECA unit, in terms of size and connectivity.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm anticipating NOMAD to be something more in line with an external DECA unit, in terms of size and connectivity.


Ditto. My only question is whether the Nomad UI will be embedded in the HR's or will be PC-based. My guess is PC, to facilitate sync'ing those files to hand-held devices.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ditto. My only question is whether the Nomad UI will be embedded in the HR's or will be PC-based. My guess is PC, to facilitate sync'ing those files to hand-held devices.


Great question/speculation....if there was firmware-based code...DirecTV could control and update it as needed. They could also required and control the access key.

For that reason, I suspect it will be (or already is under the covers) within the HD DVR units themselves.


----------



## billsharpe

Right now I can plug my iPod Touch into the USB port on the front of my DVR and recharge the battery. It would be nice if plugging the iPod into that port could do a lot more....


----------



## smiddy

billsharpe said:


> Right now I can plug my iPod Touch into the USB port on the front of my DVR and recharge the battery. It would be nice if plugging the iPod into that port could do a lot more....


I occasionally plug my Zune in to the USB ports to check to see if it will do more. It never does. I can say though, my new Cruze, when I plug the Zune into it, the car interfaces with it perfectly!


----------



## wco81

I've seen some TVs and AV gear come with docks or you can get a dock for it and apparently it will display and let you control the contents of the iPod.

But now, there are suppose to be AV gear which supports AirPlay, so you would stream audio and video to compatible devices from the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch directly.

Then there are apps. for fancy remote control of various gear. Comcast has Xfinity app. that they're advertising which lets you select channels from a program guide on iPad. Seems to have a much better UI than the one t hat comes with their boxes.


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> You wouldn't want to have more than one *unless "one" Nomad unit can only access "one" DVR which doesn't make sense.* I believe the Nomad would have the ability to communicate with every DVR in the WHDVR System and then you Select which DVR you want to see as we do presently with DIRECTV2PC and then Select the Recording you want to Offload and then Select Offload (of course you are connected to your PC via your USB Cable). Then you Select some more Recordings until you are thru with that particular DVR then you Select the next DVR and continue....!!!


To me and you yes, but with DirecTV so tight with DVR content, it can not be ruled out.


----------



## Drucifer

scottandregan said:


> Right, with the ability to access all dvr's from one it doesn't seem cost effective to put it every machine.


The cost in hardware could be as cheap as a chip that goes on a board. It's the casing, jacks, etc. that is probably most of the cost of a stand alone _Nomad_.


----------



## harsh

billsharpe said:


> Right now I can plug my iPod Touch into the USB port on the front of my DVR and recharge the battery. It would be nice if plugging the iPod into that port could do a lot more....


I'm betting with the right app, you could do a wired remote using the home automation protocol. 

DIRECTV (or anyone else new to the game) is not very likely to implement direct digital exports at this point in the DRM game. It wouldn't be new and it would probably be frowned upon (or worse, confusingly restricted like TiVo2Go).

I would guess that NOMAD brings a level of "compromise" to the PQ of the content that will make the saved recording non-threatening to the content owners.


----------



## CuriousMark

Those are some good points, I would add:



harsh said:


> It wouldn't be new and it would probably be frowned upon (or worse, confusingly restricted like TiVo2Go).


The TiVo2Go restrictions are that full resolution versions aren't available, only downres'ed vresions of the show get out of the DRM cocoon. These restrictions have led to hacking of the DRM cocoon.



> I would guess that NOMAD brings a level of "compromise" to the PQ of the content that will make the saved recording non-threatening to the content owners.


Yup, the images will probably be downres'ed in the exact same way.

I see this operating almost identically to TiVo2Go except that the stripping of DRM and downres'ing happens in a difficult to hack box, rather than a relatively easy to hack PC software environment.

The same compromise almost certainly means the same "confusingly restricted" results.

The real win for DRM here is that its removal is buried deep in a well controlled box.


----------



## Steve

CuriousMark said:


> [...] The real win for DRM here is that its removal is buried deep in a well controlled box.


Seeing how careful DirecTV has been about DRM in the past, it would surprise me if even down-rezzed videos aren't somehow protected. Perhaps Windows, iOS and Droid devices might need a dedicated Nomad playback app, similar to DirecTV2PC, or some kind of authentication key may need to be present on the playback device, if those devices already natively support some type of DRM. Just my .02.


----------



## CuriousMark

Steve said:


> Seeing how careful DirecTV has been about DRM in the past, it would surprise me if even down-rezzed videos aren't somehow protected. Perhaps Windows, iOS and Droid devices might need a dedicated Nomad playback app, similar to DirecTV2PC, or some kind of authentication key may need to be present on the playback device, if those devices already natively support some type of DRM. Just my .02.


Yes, I could see that. Since few would be interested in breaking DRM on a downres'ed file, it would likely not be broken and could be used to preserver a DirecTV walled garden for sharing to devices.


----------



## wco81

Instead of decrypting and keeping the content in the digital domain, I could see them connect the Nomad via the analog component output of the DVR, which is essentially what the Sling and the Volcano box is doing, taking the analog signal and re-digitizing.

That way, they don't have to decrypt the DRM outside of the DVR at all.

I'm surprised though that nobody has tried to hack these DVRs. D* used to be pirated a lot back in the day, wasn't it?


----------



## CuriousMark

wco81 said:


> Instead of decrypting and keeping the content in the digital domain, I could see them connect the Nomad via the analog component output of the DVR, which is essentially what the Sling and the Volcano box is doing, taking the analog signal and re-digitizing.
> 
> That way, they don't have to decrypt the DRM outside of the DVR at all.


The nomad would need a lot more horsepower to do that rather than to simply transcode using available chipsets. It would also need analog hardware that would drive up the production costs some that a pure digital device would not need. I suppose it could be done that way, but it seems like such a yesterday answer to a today problem.

The DVR decrypts the DRM, DirecTV2PC decrypts the DRM, and the H24 streaming receiver from an HR24 DVR decrypts the DRM. This box could handle it just the same as any other streaming receiver.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> I'm surprised though that nobody has tried to hack these DVRs.


Who said nobody has tried? It's not like you'd be able to read about it on this forum...


wco81 said:


> D* used to be pirated a lot back in the day, wasn't it?


Yes, and they've vastly improved their security since then.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

"wco81" said:


> [...]
> 
> I'm surprised though that nobody has tried to hack these DVRs. D* used to be pirated a lot back in the day, wasn't it?


Easy, let's not go there.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I suspect one NMAD unit will work on all devices within a customer's subscription, buch like WHDS does. The firmware and access card could control use within a household.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect one NOMAD unit will work on all devices within a customer's subscription, buch like WHDVR does. The Firmware and Access Card could control use within a household.


And I guess you would have to Enter a Password to Verify that it is you that is using NOMAD to Download Recorded Content onto your Mobile Device.

BRING IT ON!!! :hurah:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> And I guess you would have to Enter a Password to Verify that it is you that is using NOMAD to Download Recorded Content onto your Mobile Device.
> 
> BRING IT ON!!! :hurah:


Perhaps some kind of keycode number...but yes...something unique to assure security.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect one NMAD unit will work on all devices within a customer's subscription, buch like WHDS does.


That would require, as WHDS does, that all SD equipment is left out. I'm not sure that's such a good idea when compared with similar products on the market.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> That would require, as WHDS does, that all SD equipment is left out. I'm not sure that's such a good idea when compared with similar products on the market.


Totally disagree.

HD is being phased out over time...in another few years...no one will remember what SD looked like )other than ugly). If "similar products" do SD...they're wasting their time and code on it.

In addition, HD content migrates in a very clean form to mobile devices - and people who are likely to adopt NOMAD are many of the same people who could care less about SD.

I'd suspect (and hope) DirecTV doesn't waste this new technology on anything SD.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Totally disagree.
> 
> HD is being phased out over time...in another few years...no one will remember what SD looked like )other than ugly). If "similar products" do SD...they're wasting their time and code on it.
> 
> In addition, HD content migrates in a very clean form to mobile devices - and people who are likely to adopt NOMAD are many of the same people who could care less about SD.
> 
> I'd suspect (and hope) DirecTV doesn't waste this new technology on anything SD.


Depends on the target device, IMHO.

If by "HD" you mean transcoded file resolution, 480i/p (SD) is more than enough pixel density for a device with a 4" screen, and I wouldn't expect Nomad to produce higher resolution files than that for download to hand-held phones or iPods. The extra pixels wouldn't be visible on that sized screen. So unless the intent was to display on an iPad or laptop, or to use the phone to drive a higher resolution external display, higher resolution files would just take up more space on the device with no added benefit to the viewer.

If by HD you mean aspect ratio (16:9), most Android devices have 16:9 screens, good for letterboxed SD or 1.78:1 HD. 4:3 original material is either displayed pillar-boxed, stretched or cropped/zoomed, depending on the devices options. Many Apple iOS devices (iPods, iPhones) use an odd aspect ratio (1.5:1), that is somewhere in between 4:3 (1.33:1) and 16:9 (1.78.1), so most widescreen programming viewed on those gadgets is never seen exactly as the director intended. iPads screens are 4:3, so some screen real estate is sacrificed for viewing wide-screen content as intended.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> HD is being phased out over time...in another few years...no one will remember what SD looked like )other than ugly). If "similar products" do SD...they're wasting their time and code on it.


SD will be with us for longer than the average lifetime of a piece of consumer electronics gear purchased today. For its part, DIRECTV is delaying the conversion by not replacing important SD offerings with their HD counterparts.


> In addition, HD content migrates in a very clean form to mobile devices - and people who are likely to adopt NOMAD are many of the same people who could care less about SD.


Modern SD content is all digital anyway so it all converts the same.


> I'd suspect (and hope) DirecTV doesn't waste this new technology on anything SD.


Waste is recording HD only to downconvert it to SD or less. Further, SD shouldn't require any extraordinary effort to include.

For those who have fallen prey to the excitement around the iPad, the old 4:3 format seems to suit it better anyway.


----------



## wco81

It definitely makes a difference on the iPad whether a transcoded source was HD or SD.


----------



## Steve

wco81 said:


> It definitely makes a difference on the iPad whether a transcoded source was HD or SD.


Yup. I would imagine 720p would look best on screen that size (1024x768), and on most laptops, so I would hope there's a Nomad option for that. For viewing on handheld devices like iPhones, Droid phones or iPods, tho, transcoding to anything more than 480p is just taking up more device storage space with no corresponding bump in PQ, based on my own experience with the Zune HD, an iPhone 3GS and my latest "toy", an iPod with the latest Apple "retina" display.


----------



## wco81

Retina display resolution is almost as high as that of the iPad.

Handbrake probably has profiles for iPad and retina display.

And iPad apps. like Zumocast and Air Video seems to adapt the source to fit the iPad resolution.


----------



## Steve

wco81 said:


> Retina display resolution is almost as high as that of the iPad


Ya... absurdly high for that size screen, IMHO... 960x640 on a 3.5 inch screen, or 326 pixels per inch! The reality is video transcoded as low as 300p for my iPod touch looks as sharp and clear to me as video transcoded at 640p, when viewed at my "normal" viewing distance of about 12" to 18".


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> SD will be with us for longer than the average lifetime of a piece of consumer electronics gear purchased today.


Maybe at Dish....but not necessarily elsewhere.

The cost of production continues to rise, and broadcasters will only make investment in newer equipment and phase out the old over time....and that time will not be measured in more than perhaps 3-5 years.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ya... absurdly high for that size screen, *IMHO... 960x640 on a 3.5 inch screen*, or 326 pixels per inch! The reality is video transcoded as low as 300p for my iPod touch looks as sharp and clear to me as video transcoded at 640p, when viewed at my "normal" viewing distance of about 12" to 18".


It might transcode..but require an electron microscope to see anything of substance on that small a screen...


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe at Dish....but not necessarily elsewhere.
> 
> The cost of production continues to rise, and broadcasters will only make investment in newer equipment and phase out the old over time....and that time will not be measured in more than perhaps 3-5 years.


DirecTV may phase out the rest of their SD channels in the next 3-5 years, but I'm pretty sure new HD set top boxes will continue to support 480i/p output for a few years after that, so HD channels can still be viewed on legacy 4:3 TV's. Just my .02.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> DirecTV may phase out the rest of their SD channels in the next 3-5 years, *but I'm pretty sure new HD set top boxes will continue to support 480i/p output for a few years after that*, so HD channels can still be viewed on legacy 4:3 TV's.


Perhaps...but the longevity of the SD content feeding them will also come to a close sooner than some folks other than you seem to think.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe at Dish....but not necessarily elsewhere.
> 
> The cost of production continues to rise, and broadcasters will only make investment in newer equipment and phase out the old over time....and that time will not be measured in more than perhaps 3-5 years.


Also, HD Equipment is getting Exponentially Cheaper than it was when it first came out so why Replace Old SD Cameras, etc. with New SD Cameras, etc.

You would just Upgrade to HD and eventually give all of the SD Customers HD stuff so they could finally get rid of the expense of having two systems.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Also, HD Equipment is getting Exponentially Cheaper than it was when it first came out so why Replace Old SD Cameras, etc. with New SD Cameras, etc.
> 
> You would just Upgrade to HD and eventually give all of the SD Customers HD stuff so they could finally get rid of the expense of having two systems.


Good points.

There's a reason, I suppose, that they call them "legacy" ports on the SWiM... 

In the mean time...having the ability to offload HD content to mobile devices is certainly a strong appeal with NOMAD.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> DirecTV may phase out the rest of their SD channels in the next 3-5 years


If it were that close, DirecTV would have already stopped giving out non-MPEG4 equipment. Since they haven't, I'd say 5 years is the absolute earliest if they stopped today. The installed base of MPEG2 SD receivers is ridiculous.


----------



## Steve

Jeremy W said:


> If it were that close, DirecTV would have already stopped giving out non-MPEG4 equipment. Since they haven't, I'd say 5 years is the absolute earliest if they stopped today. The installed base of MPEG2 SD receivers is ridiculous.


I actually wasn't speculating 3-5 years. I was just responding to a comment made in this post. After listening to Mr. Pontual's presentation today, especially the part about satellite timelines, my guess would be 5-10 years. But like I said before, I expect to see legacy support for 480i/480p in HD receivers even after the SD channels are gone.


----------



## RobertE

NOMAD Project

Nomad is a device that will allow customers to download HD/DVR content onto their computer and/or mobile phone via their home network. The Nomad product will be sold via online and OMS sales channels.


Product Line: SHARED CONTENT DEVICE
Product Name: DIRECTV MDR1R0-01

Key Points:


Nomad is available to existing Residential customers only.
The product will be "drop ship" only at time of launch.
Will not be on work orders.
Technicians will not install this device.


----------



## smiddy

Thanks RobertE for the information! I want one of these badboys!


----------



## spartanstew

Gimme.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RobertE said:


> Key Points:
> 
> 
> Nomad is available to existing Residential customers only.
> The product will be "drop ship" only at time of launch.
> Will not be on work orders.
> Technicians will not install this device.


Thanks Robert.

Its nice to see more formal confirmation of that information that has been "rumored" for a bit.

I'm assuming any necessary cables will be included.


----------



## Steve

RobertE said:


> Nomad is a device that will allow customers to download HD/DVR content onto their computer and/or mobile phone via their home network. The Nomad product will be sold via online and OMS sales channels.


Since it's connecting to the "home network", sounds very much like the Nomad UI will be PC-based. Not too surprising.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Since it's connecting to the "home network", sounds very much like the Nomad UI will be PC-based. Not too surprising.


True - that would make the most sense, and make it very easy to control on DirecTV's part, and deploy as well in a consistent manner.


----------



## wco81

Buy or lease-only?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

wco81 said:


> Buy or lease-only?


Probably buy...with a monthly fee...perhaps something similar to a mirror fee.

Leasing them would assume they'd want them back for reuse...and I suspect that isn't in the cards. Maybe RobertE has an idea along those lines.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> True - that would make the most sense, and make it very easy to control on DirecTV's part, and deploy as well in a consistent manner.


Hopefully setting this up will be a slam-dunk, because if it is PC-based, remember DirecTV has no control over folks home network setups or what else might be running on their PC's. Witness the issues some folks have had getting DirecTV2PC up and running. I'm guessing Nomad will be simpler than DTV2PC because the necessary transcoding hardware is in the device, so there won't be a "minimum" PC configuration required. Fingers-crossed.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> I'm guessing Nomad will be simpler than DTV2PC because the necessary transcoding hardware is in the device, so there won't be a "minimum" PC configuration required.


Bingo.


----------



## RobertE

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Probably buy...with a monthly fee...perhaps something similar to a mirror fee.
> 
> Leasing them would assume they'd want them back for reuse...and I suspect that isn't in the cards. Maybe RobertE has an idea along those lines.


Leaning towards buy. This is based off the distribution method and the fact that it's not going to be handled by techs. Just my gut feeling at this time. When I have more hard info, I'll pass it along.


----------



## sigma1914

RobertE said:


> Leaning towards buy. This is based off the distribution method and the fact that it's not going to be handled by techs. Just my gut feeling at this time. When I have more hard info, I'll pass it along.


Thanks Robert. Please keep an eye on pricing.


----------



## Karen

Well, since it doesn't sound like live streaming will be available, I guess it will save me some money! <g>


----------



## wco81

Well if there's a monthly fee as well as an upfront price, then I'll be looking for alternatives.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> Well if there's a monthly fee as well as an upfront price, then I'll be looking for alternatives.


We've been fairly confident of that for quite a while now.


----------



## smiddy

spartanstew said:


> Gimme.


No, me first. 

As only the Soup Nazi could, "No, no NOMAD for you!"  Or tcusta00, your choice.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Karen said:


> Well, since it doesn't sound like live streaming will be available, I guess it will save me some money! <g>


Likely not at first...but....


wco81 said:


> Well if there's a monthly fee as well as an upfront price, then I'll be looking for alternatives.


Sorry.

*Free* is not an option for something that is an option. :nono2:

*Of course *it will cost *something*, and likely have a *nominal* monthly fee.

We saw the same comments at MRV...and yet it has exceeded even DirecTV's own adoption estimates in popularity.


----------



## smiddy

wco81 said:


> Buy or lease-only?


Good question, I would be on the buy only side...no fee. Or fee only, no buy. But not both. That was how I filled out the survey.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Good question, I would be on the buy only side...no fee. Or fee only, no buy. But not both. That was how I filled out the survey.


So if its buy...with a small monthly fee.... :shrug:


----------



## smiddy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likely not at first...but....
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> *Free* is not an option for something that is an option. :nono2:
> 
> *Of course *it will cost *something*, and likely have a *nominal* monthly fee.
> 
> We saw the same comments at MRV...and yet it has exceeded even DirecTV's own adoption estimates in popularity.


Your speculation is scaring people. We don't know how DirecTV intends to put this into their feature set. I know how I filled out the survey...but that doesn't give any indication as to how implementation will happen. They should announce it soon.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Your speculation is scaring people. We don't know how DirecTV intends to put this into their feature set. I know how I filled out the survey...but that doesn't give any indication as to how implementation will happen. They should announce it soon.


:eek2::eek2::eek2:

If they are introducing a new device...did anyone really think it was going to be free?

Agree we don't know how it will be priced...but free never entered into the equation as far as anything I've read since day one on NOMAD. No reason to be scared...it likely won't be a big ticket item either...


----------



## Scott Kocourek

For may people this is not a must have, for those who travel a bunch that may be different. I fit into the middle category, I just like cool things. Hopefully it's not too expensive.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> For may people this is not a must have, for those who travel a bunch that may be different. I fit into the middle category, I just like cool things. Hopefully it's not too expensive.


I suspect you represent many others too.

As one of those road warriors on plenty of planes each year...I know I would use NOMAD regularly, and see a value. Even on vacations, long car trips, etc.

Woulda loved one of these a Million flying miles ago.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

I don't travel much but I still bleepin' want one. 

Mike


----------



## Richierich

I would think that there would be a small one time Fee to Defray the Cost of the Hardware Device and then probably a small monthly Fee similar to what we pay for WHDVR Service, $5 per month which woudn't break my bank and would be welcomed if I could have hours and hours of Directv Recorded Material on an airplane to Hawaii or Europe.

Bring It On Directv!!! I'm enjoying my WHDVR so much I don't even think about some piddling $5 per month as it Rocks My World everyday!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Guess a number of us are in "wait and see" mode on the delivery timeframe and costs at this point. As with MRV...I suspect the actual demand will exceed the anticipated adoption.


----------



## Richierich

Too bad Directv doesn't start a Waiting List so that those of us who Definitely want one can get on an Early Adopter's List!!! I want my NOMAD NOW!!! 

Where's Santa Claus when you need him??? :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Too bad Directv doesn't start a Waiting List so that those of us who Definitely want one can get on an Early Adopter's List!!! I want my NOMAD NOW!!!
> 
> Where's Santa Claus when you need him??? :lol:


Working - he has a job.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Working - he has a job.


What is this Job Thing you speak of??? 

My Wife occasionally mentions that Word as she heads out the door to some unknown place I know nothing of!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> What is this Job Thing you speak of???
> 
> My Wife occasionally mentions that Word as she heads out the door to some unknown place I know nothing of!!!


Maybe Santa himself is on the NOMAD test team....after all...he travels plenty. :grin:


----------



## Richierich

Directv really Dropped the Ball on this Nomad Thingy when they didn't let Ole Richierich be on the Test Team. Who would have been better to test this Nomad Thingy than me??? Santa???

Well, I will forgive them this time but better not make this mistake again Directv, got it??? Now just Bring It On and I will finish the testing of this Nomad Thingy!!!


----------



## ffemtreed

So this thing is pretty much Tivo2Go with its own dedicated portable viewer ????


----------



## Richierich

What do you mean as far as Portable Viewer??? My Portable Viewer will be my Laptop with about 100 hours of HD Recorded Content on it!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

ffemtreed said:


> So this thing is pretty much Tivo2Go with its own dedicated portable viewer ????


Nope...


----------



## Hutchinshouse

richierich said:


> Directv really Dropped the Ball on this Nomad Thingy when they didn't let Ole Richierich be on the Test Team. Who would have been better to test this Nomad Thingy than me??? Santa???
> 
> Well, I will forgive them this time but better not make this mistake again Directv, got it??? Now just Bring It On and I will finish the testing of this Nomad Thingy!!!


+1


----------



## trainman

Steve said:


> Since it's connecting to the "home network", sounds very much like the Nomad UI will be PC-based. Not too surprising.


I hope it's actually cross-platform -- or at least separate versions for PC and Mac -- similar to the NFL Sunday Ticket mobile options.


----------



## vfr781rider

Well, if this thing doesn't stream live TV, I for one will have no use for it  Please stream, please stream...


----------



## Steve

trainman said:


> I hope it's actually cross-platform -- or at least separate versions for PC and Mac -- similar to the NFL Sunday Ticket mobile options.


Ya. I should have said "pc-based" instead of "PC-based"! :lol: If Morega systems is truly behind this, based on the logos on their home page, it looks like they support just about every flavor of mobile OS, so I would imagine the same would hold true for pc OS's.

It's also possible that, for DRM purposes, mobile clients will need an app to play the transcoded files, and perhaps those apps might be able to control the device as well?


----------



## CuriousMark

ffemtreed said:


> So this thing is pretty much Tivo2Go with its own dedicated portable viewer ????


From what I read here, imagine TiVo Desktop with the transcode codecs and the DRM wrapper removal software located in an outboard box. What reaches the PC will already be transcoded to a lower resolution/bit rate and may have the normal DTV DRM replaced with something a little more friendly to devices like smart phones.

It should provide much of the functionality of TiVo To Go, but it will operate differently and have a completely different set of limitations.

The above is just my opinion and is based solely on following this thread.


----------



## ffemtreed

CuriousMark said:


> From what I read here, imagine TiVo Desktop with the transcode codecs and the DRM wrapper removal software located in an outboard box. What reaches the PC will already be transcoded to a lower resolution/bit rate and may have the normal DTV DRM replaced with something a little more friendly to devices like smart phones.
> 
> It should provide much of the functionality of TiVo To Go, but it will operate differently and have a completely different set of limitations.
> 
> The above is just my opinion and is based solely on following this thread.


Ok, so this is basically a box I attach on my home network that transcribes recorded shows off my DVR into a format that i can copy to a laptop/cell and etc.


----------



## Steve

ffemtreed said:


> Ok, so this is basically a box I attach on my home network that transcribes recorded shows off my DVR into a format that i can copy to a laptop/cell and etc.


That's my understanding as well.

What I'm interested in seeing is if you can initiate the transcoding of those shows from _outside _the home, and copy them to your portable device via the internet. This would allow us to view shows that may have aired _after _we left home.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

ffemtreed said:


> Ok, so this is basically a box I attach on my home network that transcribes recorded shows off my DVR into a format that i can copy to a laptop/cell and etc.


That's pretty much it - HD content too, of course. 

It provides the means to take your recordings mobile, on a series of different types of mobile devices.


----------



## ffemtreed

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's pretty much it - HD content too, of course.
> 
> It provides the means to take your recordings mobile, on a series of different types of mobile devices.


So the main difference between tivo2go is that this is a hardware solution as opposed to a software solution.

They should have just made a software application for a computer instead of making everyone who wants to use this buy another box on the network. Hopefully there is more to this box than just transcoding programs from the dvr.


----------



## Steve

ffemtreed said:


> They should have just made a software application for a computer instead of making everyone who wants to use this buy another box on the network. Hopefully there is more to this box than just transcoding programs from the dvr.


I'm pretty sure this box will "fly" compared to transcoding via software on the PC, even assuming you had the right PC configuration for transcoding.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

ffemtreed said:


> So the main difference between tivo2go is that this is a hardware solution as opposed to a software solution.
> 
> They should have just made *a software application for a computer *instead of making everyone who wants to use this buy another box on the network. Hopefully there is more to this box than just transcoding programs from the dvr.


That would highly limit the various other devices it could be used with...as opposed to a "universal device" that offloads contents to multiple devices.


----------



## wco81

Yeah but they probably see it as an incremental revenues opportunity.

As opposed to providing a convenience which might help customer retention.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

wco81 said:


> *Yeah but they probably see it as an incremental revenues opportunity.*
> 
> As opposed to providing a convenience which might help customer retention.


...or perhaps a device requiring period updates to maintain support...with a nominal fee to subsidize those updates...


----------



## Richierich

Well, it was Good to see Directv indirectly addressing NOMAD during the Directv Investor Day Conference call.

It should be here before we know as in "SOON"!!! :lol:


----------



## Lord Vader

Indeed. I know for sure it will be here soon.


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> Well, it was Good to see Directv indirectly addressing NOMAD during the Directv Investor Day Conference call.


Looking back at the 2009 Q4 conference call, the NOMAD's functions were mentioned as coming in 2010.


----------



## Richierich

Well, they only missed it by a Year!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Looking back at the 2009 Q4 conference call, the NOMAD's functions were mentioned as coming in 2010.


...and the year is not over yet. 

If it comes out as expected very shortly...then being off target by 60 days or so is no big deal, especially given the nature of testing required on this technology.


----------



## Doug Brott

There will be no NOMAD in 2010.


----------



## The Merg

Doug Brott said:


> There will be no NOMAD in 2010.


So... does that mean there will be a MAD? 

- Merg


----------



## Mike Bertelson

The Merg said:


> So... does that mean there will be a MAD?
> 
> - Merg


Ouch. 

!rolling

Mike


----------



## Doug Brott

The Merg said:


> So... does that mean there will be a MAD?
> 
> - Merg


NO MAD .. just "go"


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and the year is not over yet.
> 
> If it comes out as expected very shortly...then being off target by 60 days or so is no big deal, especially given the nature of testing required on this technology.


And if it has Netstreaming Capabilities with Offloading Capabilities then that requires even more testing so I will wait Patiently until SOON comes!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> NO MAD .. just "go"


It'll be NOTMAD in 2010 and NOMAD in early 2011.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It'll be NOTMAD in 2010 and NOMAD in early 2011.


Well, as long as I have it by March 15th I'll be okay!!! But it has to be out by then Directv as I am going skiing and I need it for the plane trip!!!


----------



## Scott Kocourek

richierich said:


> Well, as long as I have it by March 15th I'll be okay!!! But it has to be out by then Directv as I am going skiing and I need it for the plane trip!!!


Please be sure to forward that date to those in charge, I'm sure they wouldn't want to let you down. :sure:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

scottandregan said:


> Please be sure to forward that date to those in charge, I'm sure they wouldn't want to let you down. :sure:


:lol::lol::lol:

They never called me to ask when I wanted one either. !rolling


----------



## The Merg

hdtvfan0001 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> They never called me to ask when I wanted one either. !rolling


Really, you didn't get that call? I gave them your phone number. Wow, that's awkward... :lol:

- Merg


----------



## Richierich

I sent it to the CEO who has asked my advice on several things in the past and I sent a copy to Ellen Filipiak also so I should be covered.

Can't believe they forgot to include me in on the Testing of this Nomad Thingy but I guess they were busy and just overlooked me accidentally.


----------



## dennisj00

I hope your trip is March, 2012. . .


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> I hope your trip is March, 2012. . .


!rolling

I suspect he'll be fine this coming year...


----------



## Richierich

harsh said:


> Looking back at the 2009 Q4 conference call, the NOMAD's functions were mentioned as coming in 2010.


Do you have evidence of Directv's Statement about Nomad during the 2009 Q4 conference call???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Do you have evidence of Directv's Statement about Nomad during the 2009 Q4 conference call???


Not sure it matters...

It'll be here *soon*, likely 1Q 2011.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure it matters...
> 
> It'll be here *soon*, likely 1Q 2011.


Just curious to see exactly what Directv alluded to and how it was stated from an intellectual standpoint.

I can wait until 1st Quarter of 2011 but not much longer than that as "Patience only comes to those who can wait for it!!!" Confusedious!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Seems waiting for NOMAD for a slight bit longer is the only choice.


----------



## Hdhead

richierich said:


> Just curious to see exactly what Directv alluded to and how it was stated from an intellectual standpoint.
> 
> I can wait until 1st Quarter of 2011 but not much longer than that as "Patience only comes to those who can wait for it!!!" Confusedious!!! :lol:


By definition a "Nomad" has no patience and is unpredictable. An elusive creature. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hdhead said:


> By definition a "Nomad" has no patience and is unpredictable. An elusive creature. :lol:


So I can start calling Rich a NOMAD.


----------



## Justin23

Anyone see the new software download (x44F for my HR22-100) has an "External Settings" option under the Whole-Home menu? Seems to me they are getting the software ready for Nomad in 2011...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Justin23 said:


> Anyone see the new software download (x44F for my HR22-100) has an "External Settings" option under the Whole-Home menu? Seems to me they are getting the software ready for Nomad in 2011...


Yup...on a number of HD DVRs...coming *soon*.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...on a number of HD DVRs...coming *soon*.


And it gives you the option to Block or Allow Access to your DVR and then gives you a Message about allowing access to your devices. Much the same as it was for MRV where you had to Allow Access to your DVR for Sharing Purposes. And it states something about your password.

Definitely getting Ready for My NOMAD!!!


----------



## Drucifer

Justin23 said:


> Anyone see the new software download (x44F for my HR22-100) has an "_External Settings_" option under the Whole-Home menu? Seems to me they are getting the software ready for Nomad in 2011...


It's on my H21, but not my HR21.


----------



## Lord Vader

Soon, Drucifer. Soon.


----------



## Jeremy W

Justin23 said:


> Anyone see the new software download (x44F for my HR22-100) has an "External Settings" option under the Whole-Home menu? Seems to me they are getting the software ready for Nomad in 2011...


That has more implications than just Nomad.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> That has more implications than just Nomad.


It might...


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> That has more implications than just Nomad.


And just what might those Implications Be???

Grasshopper has a Need to Know!!!


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> Do you have evidence of Directv's Statement about Nomad during the 2009 Q4 conference call???


Sure!


Michael White 09Q4 said:


> As a result, in 2010, DIRECTV will make it even easier for our customers to record their favorite shows and access that program from any television in their home with a single whole home DVR that will also connect with other media devises. *We'll create ways for our customers to take that same programming with them on the go*, including the ability to watch their favorite team live on their mobile phone.


[bolding added for specificity]


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Sure![bolding added for specificity]


Not exactly a definitive project plan... more like a crystal ball view.

It sure will be nice as a DirecTV customer to use Nomad though...


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> And just what might those Implications Be???


Don't know how much I can say, so I'll stay on the safe side and say nothing.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> Don't know how much I can say, so I'll stay on the safe side and say nothing.


Then again....no one stopped the speculations either....


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again....no one stopped the speculations either....


It's not speculating when you already know the answer.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> It's not speculating when you already know the answer.


True...and there have been hints laying here and there...


----------



## Drucifer

Jeremy W said:


> That has more implications than just Nomad.


Implications does inspire the end user imagination, but I have found out over the years, that end users and businesses don't share the same imagination.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> Implications does inspire the end user imagination, but I have found out over the years, that end users and businesses don't share the same imagination.


Likely true most of the time, but not all the time.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It sure will be nice as a DirecTV customer to use Nomad though...


Vague as the description is, it seems to be exactly the feature set that the NOMAD would bring.

It would have been nice had they come through with DIRECTV2Go.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Vague as the description is, it seems to be exactly the feature set that the NOMAD would bring.
> 
> *It would have been nice had they come through with DIRECTV2Go*.


Not if the needs changed, the market changed, or it simply wasn't ready...than they would have done a dis-service with that product.

Nomad seems to sync up well with today's expectations and newer tecnology.


----------



## Guest

They should have done an internal version of that DirecTVPC USB box I forget the correct name. I think the reason it failed was that people didn't want to add another box to their home theater. Or could DTV have done an internal turner card where you could install an access card and it would also have a modem?

I think CES 2011 will be great. I wonder what electronic goodies they have? Especially DTV.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

CraigerCSM said:


> They should have done an internal version of that DirecTVPC USB box I forget the correct name. I think the reason it failed was that people didn't want to add another box to their home theater. Or could DTV have done an internal turner card where you could install an access card and it would also have a modem?
> 
> I think CES 2011 will be great. I wonder what electronic goodies they have? Especially DTV.


In about 30 days....we'll let ya know what we find there.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In about 30 days....we'll let ya know what we find there.


Can't wait until it is time to get on that plane and head to Las Vegas. Wow, time is really flying.

We'll probably get to see Nomad and if I can just get one in my Backpack when no one's looking, HUM!!!


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> We'll probably get to see Nomad and if I can just get one in my Backpack when no one's looking, HUM!!!


That doesn't work too well with devices that require subscriptions in order to work properly. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> That doesn't work too well with devices that require subscriptions in order to work properly. :lol:


Drat The Luck Batman, Foiled Again!!! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Hey, maybe I will have it by the time I go to the CES 2011 in Las Vegas, wouldn't that be Great watching my Favorite Programs and Recordings on the plane ride out to Lost Wages???

Thanks for sharing that info with us!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Hey, maybe I will have it by the time I go to the CES 2011 in Las Vegas, wouldn't that be Great watching my Favorite Programs and Recordings on the plane ride out to Lost Wages???
> 
> Thanks for sharing that info with us!!!


In time for Vegas????

Don't bet on it.


----------



## Jeremy W

Whitewidow252 said:


> Hope this helps. Usually a release is just a couple weeks within an update like this.


This release was posted a few weeks ago.


----------



## Groundhog45

Rich, the package will arrive at your house the day after you get to Las Vegas. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Groundhog45 said:


> Rich, the package will arrive at your house the day after you get to Las Vegas. :lol:


PROBABLY!!! Just my Luck!!! :lol:

Come on Directv, get your Act Together!!!

You should have chose me to facilitate your testing!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> PROBABLY!!! Just my Luck!!! :lol:


Bring that luck to Vegas - they'll love it.

In the mean time... don't hold your breath on anything prior to CES - that shade of purple won't look good with your shoes.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bring that luck to Vegas - they'll love it.
> 
> In the mean time... don't hold your breath on anything prior to CES - that shade of purple won't look good with your shoes.


That's why I don't Gamble!!!

I just like to watch other people lose as it is so Empowering to know you are in the Casino and not losing a dime while everyone around you is losing. I saw one sad girl patiently playing some game and she had lost $3,000 and was still at it instead of lying around the pool with her girl friends enjoying the sunshine. That is what they like to see, losers still denying the truth. :lol:

Viva Las Vegas!!! 26 more days and we'll be on the plane.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Perhaps we'll learn more details on NOMAD *soon*.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

perhaps this week...


----------



## Lord Vader

Soon


----------



## DogLover

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps we'll learn more details on NOMAD *soon*.





Lord Vader said:


> Soon


I think I'm going to have to accuse you guys of teasing us .


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Seriously....I suspect we'll know more on NOMAD within the next 30 days, with a rollout of availability 1Q 2011 some time.

I have no firm facts on that...but multiple hints...


----------



## Richierich

You just love teasing me don't ya???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> You just love teasing me don't ya???


Who me?  <_in Alfred E Newman voice_>

It would be great to get it now, but since these will likely be a hot item...I'd rather have them get it right the first time around....so I can wait.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Whitewidow252 said:


> Yes rollout is very soon. Directv is already making the other changes included on the field focus they sent out a few weeks ago. Nomad was one of those things they mentioned, so keeping fingers crossed. Would make great christmas present.


The connectivity is what will be most intriguing...how simple to install, setup, and use.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The connectivity is what will be most intriguing...how simple to install, setup, and use.


Very Simple to setup and use...OOPS!!!

I mean I suppose it would be very easy to setup and use with just a password and hooking it up to your Network and Downloading Software to your PCs. Hey it's so easy even I could do it!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Very Simple to setup and use...OOPS!!!
> 
> I mean I suppose it would be very easy to setup and use with just a password and hooking it up to your Network and Downloading Software to your PCs. *Hey it's so easy even I could do it*!!!


Yeah...that would be a good bit of proof...


----------



## Whitewidow252

I cant wait to use my iPhone as remote control. The only draw back is you will have to grab another remote to adjust volume...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Whitewidow252 said:


> I cant wait to use my iPhone as remote control. The only draw back is you will have to grab another remote to adjust volume...


That's not really the focus of Nomad...

Nomad is designed predominantly to offload DVR'ed content to mobile devices.


----------



## Whitewidow252

I know. The remote is going to be on the app for iphone called Directv Copilot, the same app that will be doing the streaming.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Whitewidow252 said:


> I know. The remote is going to be on the app for iphone called Directv Copilot, the same app that will be doing the streaming.


Yup.

iPhone users will be able to say "there's an App for that" yet once again.


----------



## Doug Brott

Whitewidow252 said:


> I know. The remote is going to be on the app for iphone called Directv Copilot, the same app that will be doing the streaming.


Co-Pilot was mentioned int he Investor Day Presentation on December 2. I could be wrong on my interpretation, but it seems that Copilot and NOMAD are two different offerings.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Co-Pilot was mentioned int he Investor Day Presentation on December 2. I could be wrong on my interpretation, but it seems that Copilot and NOMAD are two different offerings.


It would seem so...since they do entirely different things.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Whitewidow252 said:


> Nomad is the name of the device that you will connect to your DirecTV network at home and Copilot is the app for iPhone/iPad in which you use to watch the content.


That seems to conflict with other information posted to date....these two initiatives seem to be 2 unrelated new things...guess we'll hear from the experts when it gets closer to a release date.


----------



## LoweBoy

I sure hope NOMAD is compatible with Mac. If not some could be REALMAD!


----------



## Jeremy W

LoweBoy said:


> I sure hope NOMAD is compatible with Mac. If not some could be REALMAD!


U MAD, Mac fans?


----------



## Drucifer

So Nomad takes what DirecTV encodes on DVR HD and makes it available. Why encode the DVR HD content in the first place then?


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> So Nomad takes what DirecTV encodes on DVR HD and makes it available [...]


I'm guessing only to a licensed player or licensed playback app, like DirecTV2PC. I'd be surprised if it will be content you can give to someone else to play.


----------



## Richierich

Drucifer said:


> So Nomad takes what DirecTV encodes on DVR HD and makes it available. Why encode the DVR HD content in the first place then?


Because you will have to enter a special Passcode initially to be able to View it with your Software or it will remain Unviewable.


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> Because you will have to enter a special Passcode to be able to View it or it will remain Unviewable.


Nah.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Because you will have to enter a special Passcode to be able to View it or it will remain Unviewable.


Could be just a special keycode upon setup...then you're OK to go from there...


----------



## Steve

Whitewidow252 said:


> Nomad is the name of the device that you will connect to your Directv network at home and Copilot is the app for iPhone/iPad in which you use to watch the content.


Could be, because there is a link to "Playlist" on the bottom of one of the two Copilot screens shown in the DirecTV Investor Day presentation, slide 106 on p.53, along with a demo of "Porting and streaming outside the home", slide 109.


----------



## Whitewidow252

Exactly why I said that


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Could be just a special keycode upon setup...then you're OK to go from there...


Exactly and the Software on your Device will Allow you to View it and if you transfer it to someone else's PC they couldn't view it without the Software and Passkey!!!


----------



## Drucifer

_Co-Pilot_ looks like _DirecTV2PC_ supped to the max.


----------



## Richierich

DIRECTV2PC is the Precursor to Nomad/CoPilot!!!

If you look at the screens from the Investor Presentation you can also see that it will be capable of Netstreaming as it has Live TV Guide on the left side of the CoPilot Screen.

This is going to be so Cool I just can't wait but will have to!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> DIRECTV2PC is the Precursor to Nomad/CoPilot!!!
> 
> If you look at the screens from the Investor Presentation you can also see that it will be capable of Netstreaming as it has Live TV Guide on the left side of the CoPilot Screen.
> 
> This is going to be so Cool I just can't wait but will have to!!! :lol:


Nomad will have very little in common with Copilot - two distinct different things.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

If Copilot is going to show your playlist and allow you to watch your recordings on mobile like shown in the presentation then what is the big difference between it and Nomad?

I get Nomad is hardware device that allows you to download content form box to mobile device but it seems that Nomad supports part of Copilot's functions no?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> If Copilot is going to show your playlist and allow you to watch your recordings on mobile like shown in the presentation then what is the big difference between it and Nomad?


If that was the case....perhaps....no one can validate that's the case though...

Nomad will be hardware that operates with software.

Copilot is software only.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If that was the case....perhaps....no one can validate that's the case though...
> 
> Nomad will be hardware that operates with software.
> 
> Copilot is software only.


Yeah but you can see in the presentation the "Playlist" button at the bottom of the copilot screen so it would be assumed to have that function imho.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah but you can see in the presentation the "Playlist" button at the bottom of the copilot screen so it would be assumed to have that function imho.


The information on that slide does not necessarily represent specifically what these products will be nor how they will work - its a marketing presentation....


----------



## Steve

According to slide 109, Co-pilot was one of the demos they showed the investors present at that meeting. I listened to Mr. Pontual's presentation, and he encouraged everyone the audience to go look at those demos because, paraphrasing him, "the engineers had worked until midnight the night before setting everything up."


----------



## Drucifer

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah but you can see in the presentation the "Playlist" button at the bottom of the copilot screen so it would be assumed to have that function imho.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> The information on that slide does not necessarily represent specifically what these products will be nor how they will work - its a marketing presentation....


Is there an image of the Co-Pilot/PLAYLIST screen? Seeing what function are available on that screen would answer a lot of questions.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> According to slide 109, Co-pilot was one of the demos they showed the investors present at that meeting. I listened to Mr. Pontual's presentation, and he encouraged everyone the audience to go look at those demos because, paraphrasing him, "the engineers had worked until midnight the night before setting everything up."


Yup...the recording was better in this regard than the PPT itself.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...the recording was better in this regard than the PPT itself.


The point being that the items on slide 109 were a list of demos for the investors present Mr. Pontual wanted them to see working, and not marketing vaporware:

Recently released features
The 3D experience
DIRECTV Cinema
High definition user interface
Whole Home DVR
directv.com entertainment portal
DIRECTV Co‐Pilot
NFL SUNDAY TICKET To‐Go
Porting and streaming outside the home
Social TV app


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> The point being that the items on slide 109 were a list of demos for the investors present Mr. Pontual wanted them to see, and not marketing vaporware:
> 
> Recently released features
> The 3D experience
> DIRECTV Cinema
> High definition user interface
> Whole Home DVR
> directv.com entertainment portal
> DIRECTV Co‐Pilot
> NFL SUNDAY TICKET To‐Go
> Porting and streaming outside the home
> Social TV app


Indeed...of which at least 4 of those were totally new to the list as revealed firmly...


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Indeed...of which at least 4 of those were totally new to the list as revealed firmly...


Not sure what this means.

At any rate, we've known for a while Nomad is coming soon, based on *RobertE's *and *Whitewindow's *receipt of those DirecTV notifications to the field engineers. Given that Mr. Pontual's presentation came after, obviously one or more items demo'd that day was Nomad. They're apparently not calling the ability to port and stream by the name "Nomad", tho, based on slide 109. I could be wrong, but looking at that list and the slides, I'd bet "Co-pilot" is the likely product name. Just my .02.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> Not sure what this means.
> 
> At any rate, we've known for a while Nomad is coming soon, based on *RobertE's *and *Whitewindow's *receipt of those DirecTV notifications to the field engineers. Given that Mr. Pontual's presentation came after, obviously one or more items demo'd that day was Nomad. They're apparently not calling the ability to port and stream by the name "Nomad", tho, based on slide 109. I could be wrong, but looking at that list and the slides, I'd bet "Co-pilot" is the likely product name. Just my .02.


agreed....if anything copilot is the actual app software, and nomad is the hardware used to facilitate copilots functions fully. my .02


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> agreed....if anything copilot is the actual app software, and nomad is the hardware used to facilitate copilots functions fully. my .02


Yup. Nomad could very well be a device that adds a feature to Co-pilot.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Not sure what this means.
> 
> At any rate, we've known for a while Nomad is coming soon, based on *RobertE's *and *Whitewindow's *receipt of those DirecTV notifications to the field engineers. Given that Mr. Pontual's presentation came after, obviously one or more items demo'd that day was Nomad. They're apparently not calling the ability to port and stream by the name "Nomad", tho, based on slide 109. I could be wrong, but looking at that list and the slides, I'd bet "Co-pilot" is the likely product name. Just my .02.


A little bird indicated Nomad and Copilot were totally different. Since that bird has never provided mis-information...I tend to believe the singing.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

We shall see. Yet the features that both deal with seem to be somewhat overlaping with the viewing content remotely. 

Less they change it and make nomad for watching recorded stuff remotely and copilot for live streaming remotely. Though in end doesnt make sense to Not combine the two if that was the case.

Still stickin with nomad being hardware and copilot being software both interlocking somewhat.


----------



## Richierich

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> .Still stickin with nomad being hardware and copilot being software both interlocking somewhat.


I'm sticking with Nomad as an Offloader and maybe down the road CoPilot will give us Netstreaming Live TV but I am betting that Nomad will look alot like DIRECTV2PC except it will be Mobile because it is Preloaded on your PC or Cell Phone.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> We shall see. Yet the features that both deal with seem to be somewhat overlaping with the viewing content remotely.
> 
> Less they change it and make nomad for watching recorded stuff remotely and copilot for live streaming remotely. Though in end doesnt make sense to Not combine the two if that was the case.
> 
> Still stickin with nomad being hardware and copilot being software both interlocking somewhat.


Yup, yup, yup, and yup.


----------



## CuriousMark

So how would ultraviolet fit into this?
http://www.billingworld.com/articles/2010/09/ultraviolet-standard-set-to-disrupt-iptv-and-cabl.aspx

There are reports that Ultraviolet is somehow related to DirecTV, though I haven't seen any hint of that here.

It seems to me Ultraviolet and Nomad would both serve the same/similar purposes and therefore be competing technologies.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

CuriousMark said:


> So how would ultraviolet fit into this?
> http://www.billingworld.com/articles/2010/09/ultraviolet-standard-set-to-disrupt-iptv-and-cabl.aspx
> 
> There are reports that Ultraviolet is somehow related to DirecTV, though I haven't seen any hint of that here.
> 
> It seems to me Ultraviolet and Nomad would both serve the same/similar purposes and therefore be competing technologies.


Not sure there is a fit...its a different technology than what NOMAD is, and seems to be more for the cable folks.


----------



## CuriousMark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure there is a fit...its a different technology than what NOMAD is, and seems to be more for the cable folks.


That's what I am thinking, thanks for confirming the thought process.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

CuriousMark said:


> That's what I am thinking, thanks for confirming the thought process.


No problem.

I think I've now seen 5 different similar, but different technologies related to mobile content integration and/or transfer...hope to see more firsthand at CES in about 3 1/2 weeks.


----------



## smiddy

Is it here yet?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Is it here yet?


We wish...


----------



## itzme

DNLA and Nomad Question: My new Samsung panel has a media share menu that shows all the DNLA devices. It shows my networked (cat5) HRs and it even lets me click into them and see the titles of my shows. I suppose the reason I can't play the programs is because they are encrypted. Once Nomad is introduced, do you think I might be able to play them? I'm not sure why I'd want to do that, but I'm just curious about the relationship between seeing those files and Nomad.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

itzme said:


> DNLA and Nomad Question: My new Samsung panel has a media share menu that shows all the DNLA devices. It shows my networked (cat5) HRs and it even lets me click into them and see the titles of my shows. I suppose the reason I can't play the programs is because they are encrypted. Once Nomad is introduced, do you think I might be able to play them? I'm not sure why I'd want to do that, but I'm just curious about the relationship between seeing those files and Nomad.


I suspect not, at least not at first.

The purpose of NOMAD will be to offload content top mobile devices.

Perhaps some form of streaming might come later, but no idea if or when that might happen.

There are other technologies coming in the future as part of the whole RVU alliance, of which DirecTV is a member. We'll have to see what that all brings with it.


----------



## Drucifer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No problem.
> 
> I think *I've now seen 5 different similar*, but different technologies related to mobile content integration and/or transfer...hope to see more firsthand at CES in about 3 1/2 weeks.


That bad if there is no interchangeability. You hate to lay out bucks, especially in this economy, on a technology that quickly turns into a dead end. Many smart shoppers will stand back and wait a year or two to see who's still standing.


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> Is it here yet?


It is Almost Here and Will Be SOON!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> That bad if there is no interchangeability. You hate to lay out bucks, especially in this economy, on a technology that quickly turns into a dead end. Many smart shoppers will stand back and wait a year or two to see who's still standing.


NOMAD will be compatible with a number of platforms for the off-loading of content. I don't think most will see it as expensive *or* a dead end.

The point in the earlier posts revolved around a number of other approaches in technology to meeting the same basic business requirement. Those things work fine all the time.

On example....DirecTV's DECA....not identical to other vendors' MoCA exactly...but its own adaptation...works fine, and hardly a dead end. More like a beginning in some ways.

The other thing is that these new kinds of capabilities are not meant for ALL users.....they'll be some basic prerequisites....like having an HD DVR, WHDS (MRV), and the like. That already narrows it down to less than 1/2 the user base as candidates.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The other thing is that these new kinds of capabilities are not meant for ALL users.....they'll be some basic prerequisites....like having an HD DVR, WHDS (MRV), and the like. That already narrows it down to less than 1/2 the user base as candidates.


I would say probably less than 20% of all Directv Customers will quality for Nomad. I don't care what it is compatible with as long as I can Offload my Recordings to my PC I am Good To Go!!!


----------



## Steve

I don't think MRV will be a pre-req. Just a home LAN and at least one DVR, like DirecTV2PC.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> I don't think MRV will be a pre-req. Just a home LAN and at least one DVR, like DirecTV2PC.


MMMM...we'll see....


----------



## Whitewidow252

MRV will definitely be required.


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> I would say probably less than 20% of all Directv Customers will quality for Nomad. I don't care what it is compatible with *as long as I can Offload my Recordings to my PC* I am Good To Go!!!


Being retired and my commuting days are over, I agree.

On the rare occasions when I travel, I would like my laptop to have access to my DirecTV via Internet.


----------



## Steve

Whitewidow252 said:


> MRV will definitely be required.


From a marketing standpoint (more $$$)? I don't see why it's needed from a technical standoint. DirecTV2PC sees your recordings just fine.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> From a marketing standpoint (more $$$)? I don't see why it's needed from a technical standoint. DirecTV2PC sees your recordings just fine.


It would be more convenient to just be able to bring up one UPL that you could Select Recordings from for Offloading. You could do it one DVR at at time but it would be More Cumbersome!!!


----------



## Whitewidow252

MRV/connected home is the basis for all the new features. MRV will be the network for these features to pipe through. I would guess Directv2PC will phase out. Also there will be one Nomad unit per system so it will have to be networked in and I would bet it has a deca in it with a coax conection.


----------



## Richierich

Whitewidow252 said:


> MRV/connected home is the basis for all the new features. MRV will be the network for these features to pipe through. I would guess Directv2PC will phase out.


Sound logical to me from a Marketing Standpoint and that is how these things are developed by Marketing Managers sitting around a table developing the Functionality and Platform of the Device and WHDVR Service/Networked is where everything is headed including HMC30 in the Future.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> It would be more convenient to just be able to bring up one UPL that you could Select Recordings from for Offloading. You could do it one DVR at at time but it would be More Cumbersome!!!


I agree if you're already MRV'd you'd definitely want to see the UPL.

But what if a customer just had one display, one DVR and a home network? E.g., a single person who does a lot of business travel? If there's gonna be a monthly fee for Nomad, it would seem redundant to charge that person a Nomad fee and an MRV fee, when s/he's not MRV'ing. Just my .02.


----------



## Steve

Whitewidow252 said:


> [...] I would bet it has a deca in it with a coax conection.


I would bet it doesn't only have a coax network connection, especially since installers aren't responsible for Nomad, based on the memo you and Robert got. I expect it to have an RJ45, no matter what else it may have, for ease of customer self-install.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Then Nomad will be just a simple charge for the hardware and not a monthly service fee. I can't off the top of my head recall anything that has required 1 service fee in order to use another service which also has its own fee. (I dont really count the dvr fee and mrv fee though, b/c without a dvr MRV is not useable.)
Itd be nice to just charge for the hardware and if you have MRV active then nomad functions will work.


----------



## hasan

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Then Nomad will be just a simple charge for the hardware and not a monthly service fee. I can't off the top of my head recall anything that has required 1 service fee in order to use another service which also has its own fee.


How about WHDVR? Isn't that an add on fee. I already pay for the "service"/programming, but I have to pay an additional $3.00/month in order to transport it from the DVR it was recorded on to a client (either another HD-DVR or HD receiver).

All bets are off when it comes to nickel and dime stuff from D*. I expect both an up front hardware cost and a use fee. I hope I'm wrong, but if I were a betting man....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

hasan said:


> How about WHDVR? Isn't that an add on fee. I already pay for the "service"/programming, but I have to pay an additional $3.00/month in order to transport it from the DVR it was recorded on to a client (either another HD-DVR or HD receiver).
> 
> All bets are off when it comes to nickel and dime stuff from D*. *I expect both an up front hardware cost and a use fee. I hope I'm wrong, but if I were a betting man*....


I'm headed to Vegas anyway for CES in 3 1/2 weeks  ...so I bet you're probably right (sad to say)...


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hasan said:


> How about WHDVR? Isn't that an add on fee. I already pay for the "service"/programming, but I have to pay an additional $3.00/month in order to transport it from the DVR it was recorded on to a client (either another HD-DVR or HD receiver).
> 
> All bets are off when it comes to nickel and dime stuff from D*. I expect both an up front hardware cost and a use fee. I hope I'm wrong, but if I were a betting man....


No I'm saying requiring an actual "fee" to be allowed to pay for another fee aside from your basic regular bill package. Just seems odd to require a fee for this.

I would agree i wouldn't put it past them however. Just hope they are ready to handle the in call volume from people like myself calling and activating it and then deactivating it b/c I can't see myself using it every day to justify paying even $3/mo. More like I would buy the hardware and then just activate it when I needed to use it and cancel it when done.


----------



## hasan

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> No I'm saying requiring an actual "fee" to be allowed to pay for another fee aside from your basic regular bill package. Just seems odd to require a fee for this.
> 
> I would agree i wouldn't put it past them however. Just hope they are ready to handle the in call volume from people like myself calling and activating it and then deactivating it b/c I can't see myself using it every day to justify paying even $3/mo. More like I would buy the hardware and then just activate it when I needed to use it and cancel it when done.


Good luck with that!

Based on history, I strongly suspect that there will be an up front cost and a user fee per month. Your suggestion is far too reasonable in current times, where every opportunity to create a new revenue stream is essentially a theological imperative.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hasan said:


> Good luck with that!
> 
> Based on history, I strongly suspect that there will be an up front cost and a user fee per month. Your suggestion is far too reasonable in current times, where every opportunity to create a new revenue stream is essentially a theological obligation.


haha, yeah and like i said, id assume they will be running into people calling and activating and deactivating all the time which in turn costs them money as there call centers will be having more calls for a petty thing. 
I already see myself calling and activating it on a slow day at work to watch some content form my dvr, and then deactivating it later that night when im done.
MRV is different as its used non-stop all the time in a home with a dvr.


----------



## smiddy

I still want one of these, please.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> I still want one of these, please.


I suspect you are not alone.

Bet these become a hot item whenever they come out, regardless of any costs...


----------



## Richierich

I'll definitely be Ordering one of these as soon as I hear they are out and available for the Masses.


----------



## Groundhog45

Wow, it's just like little boys waiting for Christmas around here. :lol: I'm not sure I would get much use from Nomad but I am looking forward to seeing it.


----------



## Richierich

Groundhog45 said:


> Wow, it's just like little boys waiting for Christmas around here. :lol:


Hey, I don't care how Old you get you always have to have a youthful attitude towards life, almost childlike to get the most out of it.

Okay, Santa, Bring me my Nomad!!! I want it Now!!!:lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> Wow, it's just like little boys waiting for Christmas around here. :lol: I'm not sure I would get much use from Nomad but I am looking forward to seeing it.


Hey...hands off that one on the left...it has my name on it. :lol:

With all the time I spend on the road for work and fun travel both...NOMAD would get a workout here. There seem to be plenty of other folks in the same situation.

I remember all the bantering about MRV before it was released...."I won't pay anything for it"...."I won't need it"...."I won't want it"....

Now its one of the most popular things customers get.

Bet NOMAD is similar...especially as mobile as this group seems to be.


----------



## CuriousMark

I might be interested in checking into the Nomad based on price, but since I can do everything that it is supposed to offer now, using my SA S2 TiVo DVR driving an H24, I am not sure I would switch unless it offered some significant convenience factors or cost savings for me. I routinely use this setup to put shows on my laptop and iPod Touch or use when traveling or sitting around waiting for something or someone.

I have been doing this for years.

[Edit]I forgot about HD, if this device puts HD on the laptop, that would be a significant improvement over my current setup, which is limited to 640x480 SD.


----------



## Steve

CuriousMark said:


> [...] [Edit]I forgot about HD, if this device puts HD on the laptop, that would be a significant improvement over my current setup, which is limited to 640x480 SD.


But if your primary device is a phone or iPod with a 4" screen, 480p is more than enough. As a test, I've gone as low as 240p on an iPod with a "retina" display, and it looks good when transcoded with a good H.264 encoder. 320p looks HD. Above that, I just wind up with larger file sizes with no corresponding visual improvement.

When you get up to an iPad or laptop screen size, though, you're gonna want 720p, as you say.


----------



## CuriousMark

Steve said:


> When you get up to an iPad or laptop screen size, though, you're gonna want 720p, as you say.


Which is the point at which the Nomad becomes interesting to me as an upgrade over what I have. SD on my Laptop is fine, though a bit soft, so I wouldn't mind 720 HD there. Here is to hoping the Nomad or new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service can deliver on that.


----------



## Richierich

Nomad will be able to deliver 1366 x 768 so that will work fine on my New 14" Laptop with 6 Gig of RAM and a 2.4 GHz Processor running Windows 7, I should be Good to Go with an HD Graphics Card.

Now bring it on Directv, I am definitely Ready!!!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hey...hands off that one on the left...it has my name on it. :lol:
> 
> With all the time I spend on the road for work and fun travel both...NOMAD would get a workout here. There seem to be plenty of other folks in the same situation.
> 
> I remember all the bantering about MRV before it was released...."I won't pay anything for it"...."I won't need it"...."I won't want it"....
> 
> Now its one of the most popular things customers get.
> 
> Bet NOMAD is similar...especially as mobile as this group seems to be.


I will venture to say that NOMAD will be much less subscribed to than MRV if it is with a monthly fee as such. MRV is different as they can sell that easily to any home with more than 1 tv/stb box. NOMAD to justify a monthly fee would require u to be on the road to justify use of it really.

Them asking to pay a monthly fee for this would be a step in the wrong direction. Paying for hardware is one thing but monthly fee for this and not including it in the MRV service would be a big no no imho. Last I checked Slingbox doesn't charge a monthly fee and from what i gather it would be roughly the same kinda thing no? Besides NOMAD being able to download the actual content onto the device that is.

I was all for MRV fee, but given slingbox use i might as well just get that and avoid the monthly fee no?


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> [...] Them asking to pay a monthly fee for this would be a step in the wrong direction. Paying for hardware is one thing but monthly fee for this and not including it in the MRV service would be a big no no imho [...]


I'm with you.

If it's gonna cost over $100, maybe position it as a value-added customer acquisition or retention tool with no add'l monthly fee. Just require a commitment extension for existing customers of 24 months.

Either that, or charge a _nominal _price for Nomad, say $49, and bump my MRV fee up to $5/month, along with a commitment extension. Just my .02.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> I'm with you.
> 
> If it's gonna cost over $100, maybe position it as a value-added customer acquisition or retention tool with no add'l monthly fee. Just require a commitment extension for existing customers of 24 months.
> 
> Either that, or charge a _nominal _price for Nomad, say $49, and bump my MRV fee up to $5/month, along with a commitment extension. Just my .02.


yeah either way ima look at it and say if theres a monthly fee how many yrs b4 id in total spend what a slingbox would cost me, and look at it that way.

Still a lot of unknowns here though so should be interesting how they go with this. I really hope they just charge 100 and require you have MRV on the account to use it and offer it for no commitment for current sub's.


----------



## Satelliteracer

smiddy said:


> Is it here yet?


Yes....well, for a few select folks that are testing it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes....well, for a few select folks that are testing it.


Sassy.


----------



## Satelliteracer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sassy.


For the record, I am not one of those people.....at least not yet.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Satelliteracer said:


> For the record, I am not one of those people.....at least not yet.


It works great!

OK - that was a rebound sassy response.


----------



## David Ortiz

TTIUWP!!!


----------



## Richierich

I have Slingbox PRO HD and SOLO on my Droid Phone and on my Laptop and it is Great if you have Unlimited Bandwidth.

However, when I am Flying to Hawaii for 9 hours I need to pass the time away so watching Directv Recordings via Nomad would be the Creme de al Creme to help pass the time by watching DVDs via my Portable DVD Player and then my IPOD and now my Directv Recordings on my 14" Laptop via Nomad.

Outstanding!!! I will pay $5 per month for that service in a heartbeat.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

David Ortiz said:


> TTIUWP!!!


Sorry...I don't speak cryptic twitter... :lol:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

richierich said:


> I have Slingbox PRO HD and SOLO on my Droid Phone and on my Laptop and it is Great if you have Unlimited Bandwidth.
> 
> However, when I am Flying to Hawaii for 9 hours I need to pass the time away so watching Directv Recordings via Nomad would be the Creme de al Creme to help pass the time by watching DVDs via my Portable DVD Player and then my IPOD and now my Directv Recordings on my 14" Laptop via Nomad.
> 
> Outstanding!!! I will pay $5 per month for that service in a heartbeat.


Less you travel very often I just can't see the monthly fee being justified. And if you do travel very often then I would say that group of people are a minority of directv's customers. And if you dont travel often every week then theres nothing to stop people form activating and deactivating after you travel is done. Another reason I dont think there will be a monthly fee but instead just req. to have MRV, and pay for the hardware. my.02


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Less you travel very often I just can't see the monthly fee being justified. And if you do travel very often then I would say that group of people are a minority of DirecTV's customers. And if you don't travel often every week then theres nothing to stop people form activating and deactivating after you travel is done. Another reason I don't think there will be a monthly fee but instead just req. to have MRV, and pay for the hardware. my.02


There is some truth indeed to your point.

Then again...the Gen X, Y, and Z'ers seem to be regularly on the go someplace, even when in their home city...and seem to have embraced getting almost any content possible on their mobile devices...so they would likely consider NOMAD as well.

I'm in the first group...a million miler who flies 100-150 flights a year and would get plenty of use form NOMAD.

You're right - it is neither right for, nor intended for everyone.


----------



## sigma1914

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Less you travel very often I just can't see the monthly fee being justified. And if you do travel very often then I would say that group of people are a minority of directv's customers. And if you dont travel often every week then theres nothing to stop people form activating and deactivating after you travel is done. Another reason I dont think there will be a monthly fee but instead just req. to have MRV, and pay for the hardware. my.02


Don't forget commuters. I'm not talking about watching & driving, but I mean those on trains, subways, weekly/daily flyers, car poolers, etc.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There is some truth indeed to your point.
> 
> Then again...the Gen X, Y, and Z'ers seem to be regularly on the go someplace, even when in their home city...and seem to have embraced getting almost any content possible on their mobile devices...so they would likely consider NOMAD as well.
> 
> I'm in the first group...a million miler who flies 100-150 flights a year and would get plenty of use form NOMAD.
> 
> You're right - it is neither right for, nor intended for everyone.


yeah, which is why I think itd be great promotion for them to be able to sale saying with MRV all this is included just need the box. No other company could compete with that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

sigma1914 said:


> Don't forget commuters. I'm not talking about watching & driving, but I mean those on trains, subways, weekly/daily flyers, car poolers, etc.


Yeah...there's nothing like cruising down the highway or rolling along on a train watching a good movie....oh....not while driving of course... :lol:


----------



## Lord Vader

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It works great!


Actually, it does.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lord Vader said:


> Actually, it does.


I know...but we're not supposed to say....


----------



## Draconis

Rub it in... :lol:

(Im) patiently waiting.


----------



## Drucifer

Lord Vader said:


> Actually, it does.


You know, there will be different opinions once it gets into other hands.


----------



## Lord Vader

I'm sure there will be. Let's just say it's interesting.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

well given most trials, ill say either A) you guys are telling a lie, or B) the release of the First Look is no more than a few days out if that at all.


----------



## Lord Vader

Ask me no questions; I tell you no lies.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> well given most trials, ill say either A) you guys are telling a lie, or B) the release of the First Look is no more than a few days out if that at all.


...*or*... C) None of the above.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...*or*... C) None of the above.


ha then this is one of the most open field trials ever. lol


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> ha then this is one of the most open field trials ever. lol


...*or*....not yet being tested....*or*.....near completion....*or*..... :eek2:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...*or*....not yet being tested....*or*.....near completion....*or*..... :eek2:


near completion would fall under the original option B. lol:lol:


----------



## wco81

Well if they're not going to tie it to a monthly fee, they can't tie it to MRV.

If they get incremental revenues out of this, then the next time they negotiate programming with a media conglomerate like Disney, they're going to want a taste and then we're going to have more of these negotiation battles with channels being blocked and so on.

This is the dream of the content owners, that you keep paying for the same content in different forms, over and over again -- pay for movie at the box office, pay for the DVD, pay for it when it hits cable or satellite and now, pay for it when you view it on a mobile device.

And they all act hurt and outraged that there are torrents. Or block things like Google TV unless Google lets them wet their beaks.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> near completion would fall under the original option B. lol:lol:


That depends on what is being "completed"...the device or the testing....


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That depends on what is being "completed"...the device or the testing....


then if your saying its NOT testing, then completion of device would fall under your response of it "not yet being tested" which you also paired with the choice of "near completion"

ima go with u guys have been let off the leash and the thing is about to surface soon.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> then *if your saying *its NOT testing, then completion of device would fall under your response of it "not yet being tested" which you also paired with the choice of "near completion"
> 
> ima go with u guys have been let off the leash and the thing is about to surface soon.


Not sure we've actually said much of anything really.... :lol:


----------



## billsharpe

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> then if your saying its NOT testing, then completion of device would fall under your response of it "not yet being tested" which you also paired with the choice of "near completion"
> 
> ima go with u guys have been let off the leash and the thing is about to surface soon.


Since this thread has been going for well over two months, I'd substitute "sooner or later" for the word "soon" above.

More like early next year, perhaps.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

billsharpe said:


> Since this thread has been going for well over two months, I'd substitute "sooner or later" for the word "soon" above.
> 
> More like *early next year*, perhaps.


Nope... *soon* fits.


----------



## xmguy

Man I'm unlucky. Wish there was a opt in for these trials.


----------



## Whitewidow252

I just called Directv and the girl looked up Nomad and said expected launch late 2011. God I hope that info was wrong. However I noticed on the whole home settings today there is a new setting DEVICES you can control whether devices can see the list, guide, and what you are currently watching. So copilot must be eminent!!


----------



## Richierich

Probably a Typo because it was Late 2010 and that was probably what it was meant to be and now it has been Updated to Q1 2011.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Whitewidow252 said:


> I just called Directv and the girl looked up Nomad and said expected launch late 2011. God I hope that info was wrong. However I noticed on the whole home settings today there is a new setting DEVICES you can control whether devices can see the list, guide, and what you are currently watching. So copilot must be eminent!!


Both NOMAD and COPILOT are just around the bend in arriving...

*So--*


----------



## Drucifer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Both NOMAD and COPILOT are just around the bend in *arriving*...
> 
> *So--*


Before, during or after CES?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> Before, during or after CES?


Most likely after...CES is only <3 weeks away.


----------



## Game Fan

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure we've actually said much of anything really.... :lol:


For 38 pages!!! :lol:


----------



## spartanstew

Game Fan said:


> For 38 pages!!! :lol:


24 pages


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Game Fan said:


> For 38 pages!!! :lol:





spartanstew said:


> 24 pages


Cool...another debate. :lol:

That should get us another few pages of posts.


----------



## Lord Vader

Drucifer said:


> Before, during or after CES?


Soon.


----------



## SDimwit

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> ...NOMAD to justify a monthly fee would require u to be on the road to justify use of it really...


I think it could be more popular than you think, I have been praying/begging/wishing for this functionality for years. I would LOVE to be able to come home from work and set my iPhone to get 1 or 2 sitcoms for me to watch durring breaks/ lunch the next day @ work. It wouldn't supprise me if there are many people that would like to do the same thing. This is why I have been anxiously awaiting the long announced, yet not released DirecTivo.


----------



## Doug Brott

I'm sure there are a number of folks who commute via bus or train that could benefit from this on a daily basis as well.


----------



## Drucifer

Game Fan said:


> For 38 pages!!! :lol:





spartanstew said:


> 24 pages


Either way, it is 900+ posts and they say women can talk without saying anything of importance.


----------



## Drucifer

Doug Brott said:


> I'm sure there are a number of folks who commute via bus or train that could benefit from this on a daily basis as well.


That if their bosses haven't already grab that time.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> That if their bosses haven't already grab that time.


I hear ya on that part. I've made it a point to control that as much as possible when hopping on a plane, for example.

The numerous hours I spend on any aircraft going forward will be known as "NOMAD Time" here.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I hear ya on that part. I've made it a point to control that as much as possible when hopping on a plane, for example.
> 
> The numerous hours I spend on any aircraft going forward will be known as "NOMAD Time" here.


Heck, I don't do much traveling but I can still find a use for a Nomad. 

Mike


----------



## CuriousMark

SDimwit said:


> I think it could be more popular than you think, I have been praying/begging/wishing for this functionality for years. I would LOVE to be able to come home from work and set my iPhone to get 1 or 2 sitcoms for me to watch during breaks/ lunch the next day @ work. It wouldn't surprise me if there are many people that would like to do the same thing. This is why I have been anxiously awaiting the long announced, yet not released DirecTivo.


If you get a used standalone SD TiVo with lifetime service on eBay, you can have it drive a D12 or H2x and auto-transfer the shows you want to a PC or Mac which can then auto-convert them for your iPhone and put them into iTunes so they will be waiting for when you sync. I do it now, and have done so for years. This upcoming DirecTV device will do the same for you, with added convenience and speed, but you don't have to do without while you are waiting for it.

I will be very surprised if the upcoming DirecTiVo will support either TiVo2Go or the Nomad. Most likely it will be crippled with respect to both of those transfer methods. If the DirecTiVo were going to be allowed to have decent features, I think TiVo would have gotten it out faster. I suspect that since it will be seen as a throwback, neither TiVo nor DirecTV is in any hurry to get it out.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I hear ya on that part. I've made it a point to control that as much as possible when hopping on a plane, for example.
> 
> The numerous hours I spend on any aircraft going forward will be known as "*NOMAD Time*" here.





Mike Bertelson said:


> Heck, I don't do much traveling but I can still find a use for a Nomad.
> 
> Mike


That other non-traveling extra period of hours is often referred to as *Miller Time*.


----------



## CuriousMark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That other non-traveling extra period of hours is often referred to as *Miller Time*.


Ahh, the best time of all!


----------



## billsharpe

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Cool...another debate. :lol:
> 
> That should get us another few pages of posts.


I'm up to 39 pages, but I suppose it depends on how many messages appear per page.

I doubt that we'll see Nomad by Christmas...


----------



## smiddy

NOMAD ME, Please!


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> NOMAD ME, Please!


I have heard from a Very Good Source that Nomad will be out in January, 2011. If not by then, then it will be February, 2011. However, if it is not out by then, then it will be out in March, 2011.

If not then it will be Q2 2011 or SOON!!!

He did say it would not be Out until it is Ready To Come Out and Debut it's Magic!!!


----------



## Lord Vader

Soon.


----------



## barryb

WANT.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I have heard from a Very Good Source that Nomad will be out in January, 2011. If not by then, then it will be February, 2011. However, if it is not out by then, then it will be out in March, 2011.
> 
> If not then it will be Q2 2011 or SOON!!!
> 
> He did say it would not be Out until it is Ready To Come Out and Debut it's Magic!!!


!rolling.....great source..... !rolling....


----------



## Drucifer

billsharpe said:


> I'm up to 39 pages, but I suppose it depends on how many *messages* appear *per page*.
> 
> I doubt that we'll see Nomad by Christmas...


Is a UserCP setting.


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> I have heard from a Very Good Source that Nomad will be out in January, 2011. If not by then, then it will be February, 2011. However, if it is not out by then, then it will be out in March, 2011.
> 
> If not then it will be Q2 2011 or SOON!!!
> 
> He did say it would not be Out until it is Ready To Come Out and Debut it's Magic!!!


I know how to sew the butt on my voodoo doll. So watch it!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> I know how to sew the butt on my voodoo doll. So watch it!


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> !rolling.....great source..... !rolling....


Yes, he is SPOT ON!!! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Drucifer said:


> I know how to sew the butt on my voodoo doll. So watch it!


UH OH!!! My Butts Starting To Hurt!!! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Has anybody seen my NOMAD??? :lol:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

richierich said:


> Has anybody seen my NOMAD??? :lol:


Good God, this man is Nomadless! :ewww:

!rolling

Mike


----------



## vfr781rider

Nomads do tend to wander off.


----------



## Richierich

Mike Bertelson said:


> Good God, this man is Nomadless! :ewww:
> 
> !rolling
> 
> Mike


Well, I was hoping that Santa would let me have one for Christmas so I will have it on the airplane as I fly to Vegas for the 2011 CES.

Boy would that be Nice!!! 

Well, once I get it you won't hear much from me anymore!!! So that's a good thing, isn't it???


----------



## Richierich

vfr781rider said:


> Nomads do tend to wander off.


Yes we do!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

]


richierich said:


> Yes we do!!! :lol:












*at work... *:lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *at work... *:lol:


I Resemble That Remark coming from a guy with 22,908 Posts!!! I guess I could learn a thing or two from you, couldn't I!!! :lol:

I'm just a Rookie in your Eyes!!!


----------



## spartanstew

Did someone say whore?


----------



## Richierich

spartanstew said:


> Did someone say whore?


Yes, the Queen of All Post Whores said something about it, didn't he??? :lol:


----------



## Drucifer

Mike Bertelson said:


> Good God, this man is Nomadless! :ewww:
> 
> !rolling
> 
> Mike


Mine was stolen from in front of my home.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I Resemble That Remark coming from a guy with 22,908 Posts!!! *I guess I could learn a thing or two from you*, couldn't I!!! :lol:


Sure.

Like one complete post with some actual content, for example. :lol:

What we do know is that NOMAD isn't coming until some time in 2011.

That's OK. I suspect that whenver it arrives...it'll be worth the wait.


----------



## Sixto

It will be interesting to see how NOMAD performs, looking forward to it.

Previously, for mobile viewing, I record to a Series3, use TiVo Desktop to transfer to laptop, and off I go. Usually record in SD to keep the file size down. Mostly the only use for the Series3 is mobile transfer and backup. 1 hour SD is 1-1.5MB. The transfer usually takes 10-15 minutes each, depending on the recording.

Now with the iPad, I've been playing with the conversion built into TiVo Desktop for the iPad. File transfer and then each recording is taking about 30-40 minutes to convert (for iPad). Hadn't played with any conversion before, because I'd typically just watch the transferred file on the laptop.

Wondering how NOMAD will perform, because NOMAD will become the preferred method and can do away with TiVo Desktop and the Series3 duplicating series links.

We thinking that the iPad will interface directly with the NOMAD device, and transfer the recording wirelessly, or iTunes will somehow be in the mix?


----------



## forecheck

I can't wait! Have a flight on Jan 17, hopefully it will be here by then.


----------



## Richierich

The IPAD doesn't have a USB Port but does it have a Mini USB Port or would it have to accept the data Wirelessly?


----------



## Sixto

richierich said:


> The IPAD doesn't have a USB Port but does it have a Mini USB Port or would it have to accept the data Wirelessly?


It has the standard iPOD connector for USB to a PC.

Hmmm, I wonder if you can plug it directly into NOMAD somehow?


----------



## dennisj00

Sixto,

Hopefully it will take a few steps out of the process. . . I have a DVD Recorder connected via component to my HR20-700. MRV really helps now - I can record anything from either HR.

Over the weekend, I recorded the Buffett Gulf Coast Concert from August, then used DVDFAB to convert it to iPad format and transferred it via the wifi in GoodReader which also plays it. It was 644MB for 1:30 hours. Probably overkill on the size.

I would assume that Nomad will convert (transcode) and the iPad player (assuming there is one) will either play as it streams or store it for future playing. AirVideo currently streams and converts (locally on the PC). You then move them through syncing or something like the wifi in GoodReader.

For the many things I don't want to load directly, AirVideo plays them well from the PCs or NAS.


----------



## dennisj00

I'd vote for Wifi to transfer to the iPad.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if you can plug it directly into NOMAD somehow?


I wouldn't be surprised if you could select the recordings you want via an iOS(/Android/PC) app, and they're network-streamed directly to your iPad(/Droid device/Laptop) as they're converting.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if you could select the recordings you want via an iOS(/Android/PC) app, and they're network-streamed directly to your iPad(/Drioid Device/Laptop) as they're converting.


It would be nice to also have a direct connect option, but we'll see.

Just looked at 3 NBC recordings, 1 hour SD, each 1.2GB, transcoded for iPad to 650MB each, 5-10 minutes per for TiVo to PC transfer hardwired, took 45 minutes for each transcode, just a few minutes for iTunes sync to iPad via USB.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> It would be nice to also have a direct connect option, but we'll see.
> 
> Just looked at 3 NBC recordings, 1 hour SD, each 1.2GB, transcoded for iPad to 650MB each, 5-10 minutes per for TiVo to PC transfer hardwired, took 45 minutes for each transcode, just a few minutes for iTunes sync to iPad via USB.


Based on 45 minutes per hour of SD, seems like TiVO is transcoding in just under "real time". My hope is that Nomad transcoding speed will be an order of magnitude better, since it's hardware dedicated to nothing else but transcoding, AFAIK. IOW, maybe 4-5 minutes (or less) for that same file that took 45 minutes. Just my .02.


----------



## Doug Brott

Steve said:


> Based on 45 minutes per hour of SD, seems like TiVO is transcoding in just under "real time". My hope is that Nomad transcoding speed will be an order of magnitude better, since it's hardware dedicated to nothing else but transcoding, AFAIK. IOW, maybe 4-5 minutes (or less) for that same file that took 45 minutes. Just my .02.


I'd suggest that if it transcodes a 1-hour program in under 10 minutes, it's doing pretty good. It wasn't that long ago when an hour-long program took longer than an hour to transcode.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> Based on 45 minutes per hour of SD, seems like TiVO is transcoding in just under "real time". My hope is that Nomad transcoding speed will be an order of magnitude better, since it's hardware dedicated to nothing else but transcoding, AFAIK. IOW, maybe 4-5 minutes (or less) for that same file that took 45 minutes. Just my .02.





Doug Brott said:


> I'd suggest that if it transcodes a 1-hour program in under 10 minutes, it's doing pretty good. It wasn't that long ago when an hour-long program took longer than an hour to transcode.


Certainly looking forward to playing with NOMAD and seeing the actual results.

Seems like there are at least three steps:

1. Get the recording from the HR2x to NOMAD.

2. Transcode the recording for the iPad (or other mobile device).

3. Get the recording onto the iPad (or other mobile device).

Interested to see if this will be 3 distinct steps, like they are with TiVo Desktop today, or combined somehow.


----------



## CuriousMark

Steve said:


> Based on 45 minutes per hour of SD, seems like TiVO is transcoding in just under "real time". My hope is that Nomad transcoding speed will be an order of magnitude better, since it's hardware dedicated to nothing else but transcoding, AFAIK. IOW, maybe 4-5 minutes (or less) for that same file that took 45 minutes. Just my .02.


That would be my expectation as well, otherwise it would bring nothing new to the table. Hardware transcode also keeps DRM protected. The real convenience will be the high speed with which you can pull things off your DVRs and get them onto your portables. There will be no need to think ahead and plan for which things to transfer and transcode so they will be ready when you will want them. This will make what you want available when you think you will want it for the first time, with no prior planning needed. Assuming that is the way it will work. If it is separate steps or transcoding is slow, then there is not as much advantage over the TiVo method.


----------



## Richierich

CuriousMark said:


> The real convenience will be the high speed with which you can pull things off your DVRs and get them onto your portables. There will be no need to think ahead and plan for which things to transfer and transcode so they will be ready when you will want them. This will make what you want available when you think you will want it for the first time, with no prior planning needed. Assuming that is the way it will work. If it is separate steps or transcoding is slow, then there is not as much advantage over the TiVo method.


You make it sound like it will be an Instant Transfer but it will still take time to Transcode and Transfer to your Mobile Device so you will still have to Plan ahead prior to walking out the door to get your Recordings onto your Mobile Device.


----------



## Doug Brott

richierich said:


> You make it sound like it will be an Instant Transfer but it will still take time to Transcode and Transfer to your Mobile Device so you will still have to Plan ahead prior to walking out the door to get your Recordings onto your Mobile Device.


Not necessarily .. as an external device, it could predict what you want based on some predetermined criteria (show name, etc.) and the transcoding could just happen. It's not like the device will get angry if the human using it ignores all the work it does.

In that scenario, the only human wait time would be the transfer time (assuming sufficient time has passed after show aired).


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> I'd suggest that if it transcodes a 1-hour program in under 10 minutes, it's doing pretty good. It wasn't that long ago when an hour-long program took longer than an hour to transcode.


Ya. I was suggesting 4-5 minutes (or less) for an hour of SD source material, based on Sixto's example. Compared to HD, I figure that's only about 1/4 to 1/3 the source data needed to be transcoded.


----------



## Richierich

Well, then if it goes ahead and Transcodes it ahead of time, where does it store that transcoded video data, on the Nomad Device itself?

Then the Nomad must have sufficient storage capacity to handle alot of transcoded data or would it be stored back onto the DVR?


----------



## dennisj00

The 644 MB, 1.5 hour video transfers to the iPad via wifi (5gb N) in 4.5 minutes. . . about 140 MB/minute.

If you're able to queue up transcoding, you could transfer a couple hours of programs while you pack the car (and wait on everyone to load up!)


----------



## Sixto

richierich said:


> Well, then if it goes ahead and Transcodes it ahead of time, where does it store that transcoded video data, on the Nomad Device itself?
> 
> Then the Nomad must have sufficient storage capacity to handle alot of transcoded data or would it be stored back onto the DVR?


All good questions. (nice to see some productive conversation. )


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> The 644 MB, 1.5 hour video transfers to the iPad via wifi (5gb N) in 4.5 minutes. . . about 140 MB/minute.
> 
> If you're able to queue up transcoding, you could transfer a couple hours of programs while you pack the car (and wait on everyone to load up!)


I would be storing about 50 hours of Video so how long would that take to Transfer that to a PC???


----------



## Sixto

richierich said:


> I would be storing about 50 hours of Video so how long would that take to Transfer that to a PC???


When I used the laptop for viewing, it was easy, I'd schedule recordings to transfer from the TiVo to the laptop the night before traveling. At 5-10 minutes per recording, it was easy and had plenty of extra space on the laptop to just take a bunch of stuff. The only problem with the laptop is it's not so easy to view the laptop on the plane, with the tight seating. The iPad is MUCH easier.

But with the iPad, I need to be much more selective since there's not only the transfer, but also the 30-40 minutes per recording for transcoding, and then the transfer from the PC to the iPad.

It will be interesting to see how NOMAD works.


----------



## Richierich

Sixto said:


> When I used the laptop for viewing, it was easy, I'd schedule recordings to transfer from the TiVo to the laptop the night before traveling. At 5-10 minutes per recording, it was easy and had plenty of extra space on the laptop to just take a bunch of stuff. The only problem with the laptop is it's not so easy to view the laptop on the plane, with the tight seating.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how NOMAD works.


I bought my 14" Laptop just for NOMAD with a 500 GB hard drive and 6 GB RAM and Great HD Graphics so I am just waiting for NOMAD'S DEBUT!!!

I am using it right now at The Olive Garden with a Virgin Mobile MIFI 2200 Air Card with Unlimited Data Usage and it works Great!!!

Now if Directv will just give me NOMAD I am Good To Go!!!

Also, I will be sitting in First Class so I will have a little extra room on my trips to Hawaii.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I bought my 14" Laptop just for NOMAD with a 500 GB hard drive and 6 GB RAM and Great HD Graphics so I am just waiting for NOMAD'S DEBUT!!!
> 
> I am using it right now at The Olive Garden with a Virgin Mobile MIFI 2200 Air Card with Unlimited Data Usage and it works Great!!!
> 
> Now *if Directv will just give me NOMAD *I am Good To Go!!!
> 
> Also, I will be sitting in First Class so I will have a little extra room on my trips to Hawaii.


It'll cost ya....and if you can afford 1st class...you can afford NOMAD whenever it comes out. 

Bon Appetite' :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It'll cost ya....and if you can afford 1st class...you can afford NOMAD whenever it comes out.
> 
> Bon Appetite' :lol:


I can Definitely Afford NOMAD when it comes out whatever it costs because I think it will be alot of Bang for the Buck in my opinion and especially if you are a Traveler or a Nomadic Wanderer!!! :lol:


----------



## Hdhead

richierich said:


> I can Definitely Afford NOMAD when it comes out whatever it costs because I think it will be alot of Bang for the Buck in my opinion and especially if you are a Traveler or a Nomadic Wanderer!!! :lol:


I can understand now why you want one of these things. :eek2:


----------



## Richierich

Hdhead said:


> I can understand now why you want one of these things. :eek2:


Well, 9 Hours to Hawaii or London is a lot of time to eat up and so I use my IPOD and watch a DVD or two and then I will have NOMAD to eat up the rest of my time when I am not eating Lunch or Dinner on the airplane.

Hey who gave you permission to take pictures of my wife and my camels??? :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hdhead said:


> I can understand now why you want one of these things. :eek2:


!rolling

Yeah...that seems to fit. :lol:


----------



## Doug Brott

Mamma mia .. <forehead to palm>


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> Well, 9 Hours to Hawaii or London is a lot of time to eat up and so I use my IPOD and watch a DVD or two and then I will have NOMAD to eat up the rest of my time when I am not eating Lunch or Dinner on the airplane.
> 
> Hey who gave you permission to take pictures of my wife and my camels??? :lol:


Is she a one-hump or two?


----------



## HoTat2

I take no DirecTV rep. present at CES 2011 had any new info. to offer about NOMAD?

Assuming the subject was even mentioned and a rep. there happened know about it of course .... :sure:


----------



## Hdhead

I think if there was one there richierich would have found it. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Yes, there were representatives there and we did talk to them and it was Very Interesting and Insightful and I thank Directv for the chance to talk to their representatives and partners about this product and it will be very exciting for all of Directv's Customers in the Future when it will be Debuted.


----------



## Doug Brott

NOMAD will be a nice product. Should reach general availability later this year.


----------



## wco81

Didn't hear any news about D* from CES. Did they make any announcements?

Nothing about Tivo, nothing about Nomad?

They had a presence at the show but didn't announce anything?


----------



## Doug Brott

wco81 said:


> Didn't hear any news about D* from CES. Did they make any announcements?
> 
> Nothing about Tivo, nothing about Nomad?
> 
> They had a presence at the show but didn't announce anything?


NOMAD .. Can't say too much. It was a private viewing.

TiVo .. Check here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2677363#post2677363

Oh, and yeah. Met some fine folk from DIRECTV they said "Hi" and "Thanks" to everyone here @ DBSTalk.


----------



## billsharpe

Doug Brott said:


> NOMAD will be a nice product. Should reach general availability later this year.


I suppose that's a better prediction than "Soon."


----------



## hdtvfan0001

billsharpe said:


> I suppose that's a better prediction than "Soon."


Certainly more accurate.


----------



## Whitewidow252

"Doug Brott" said:


> NOMAD .. Can't say too much. It was a private viewing.
> 
> TiVo .. Check here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2677363#post2677363
> 
> Oh, and yeah. Met some fine folk from DIRECTV they said "Hi" and "Thanks" to everyone here @ DBSTalk.


Can't say much about Nomad?? Why not? Do you work there?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Whitewidow252 said:


> Can't say much about Nomad?? Why not? Do you work there?


Because, as Doug already said, it was a private showing. It was by appointment only so if you wanted in you have to play by their rules. 

Mike


----------



## Whitewidow252

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> Because, as Doug already said, it was a private showing. It was by appointment only so if you wanted in you have to play by their rules.
> 
> Mike


Black helicopters.


----------



## Doug Brott

Whitewidow252 said:


> Can't say much about Nomad?? Why not? Do you work there?


I do not work for DIRECTV .. The commute would be much too far. 

As for Black Helicopters .. No, it's pretty simple and I think most people actually get it.

We (meaning me and others @ DBSTalk) have cultivated a relationship with DIRECTV. It works both ways. Without this relationship, we would not be able to bring you all of the information that we have. DIRECTV asked that I keep the information private and I'm respecting that request. I have not signed and NDA, nor did any of the other folks that participated.

What I do know and can say is that the NOMAD is not ready today .. It will be available later this year. What is publicly known already is that the NOMAD is a type of "To Go" thing - hence the name . If you think about it for a few minutes I'm betting you could put together a pretty good picture of what it is and how it works without actually having seen it.


----------



## Richierich

No Black Helicopters???

Gosh, I was hoping for something Mysterious and Exciting but this is all about watching TV so I guess No Black Helicopters!!! :lol:


----------



## SParker

If this is a slingbox type thing I guess maybe I should hold off on buying a Slingbox. I'd hate to drop $250 on that when this might do the same thing.


----------



## MikeW

richierich said:


> I bought my 14" Laptop just for NOMAD with a 500 GB hard drive and 6 GB RAM and Great HD Graphics so I am just waiting for NOMAD'S DEBUT!!!
> 
> I am using it right now at The Olive Garden with a Virgin Mobile MIFI 2200 Air Card with Unlimited Data Usage and it works Great!!!
> 
> Now if Directv will just give me NOMAD I am Good To Go!!!
> 
> Also, I will be sitting in First Class so I will have a little extra room on my trips to Hawaii.


Careful with that VM MIFI. They've changed the rules. After 5 GB, you will get throttled to 256k connection. Not bad, but not as unlimited as it used to be.

Now that FLO.TV is out of business, I'm looking forward to alternatives for back seat viewers in my van. Hopefully I'll be able to make it all work when it comes together.


----------



## Richierich

I got an email from Virgin stating that after Feb. 15th they would throttle you back after 5 Gig but it said that we who are on the Unlimited Plan prior to Feb. 15th will still be considered Unlimited and will not be throttled back like the customers who buy the Unlimited Plan after Feb. 15th.


----------



## billsharpe

richierich said:


> I got an email from Virgin stating that after Feb. 15th they would throttle you back after 5 Gig but it said that we who are on the Unlimited Plan prior to Feb. 15th will still be considered Unlimited and will not be throttled back like the customers who buy the Unlimited Plan after Feb. 15th.


Hmmm... Will they still call this plan unlimited?


----------



## Richierich

billsharpe said:


> Hmmm... Will they still call this plan unlimited?


Hey Richierich,

Here at Virgin Mobile, our mission is to deliver an outstanding customer experience. Sometimes that means making difficult choices in order to provide the best possible service to the greatest number of customers.

To make sure we can keep offering our $40 Unlimited Broadband2Go Plan at such a great price, we're putting a speed limit in place for anyone on that plan who uses over 5GB in a month.

How will it work?
Starting February 15, 2011, if you go over 5GB in a month on the $40 Unlimited Plan:

Your data speeds will be limited for the remainder of the monthly plan cycle. During this time, you may experience slower page loads and file downloads and lags in streaming media. 
Your data speeds will return to normal as soon as you buy a new Broadband2Go Plan. 
This change will only affect plans bought on or after 2/15/2011.
How will it affect me?
Keep in mind, 5GB is A LOT of data. To give you an idea, it's about 250 hours of web browsing or over 500,000(!) emails*. So this change shouldn't affect you unless you're a heavy downloader/streamer/etc.

How will I know if I'm getting close to 5GB?
We've updated the progress bar in your Connection Manager to show the amount of data you've used. If you go above 5GB in a month, the bar will turn yellow, letting you know your data speeds will be reduced until you buy a new plan.

By putting this speed limit in place, we're making sure we can deliver the same quality service you've come to expect from Broadband2Go. We hope you understand.

Thanks for being a Broadband2Go customer.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hey RichieRich...

P.S...

Kiss you current plan goodbye and sit back as we strip off more services in the future... :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hey RichieRich...
> 
> P.S...
> 
> Kiss you current plan goodbye and sit back as we strip off more services in the future... :lol:


GRANDFATHERED IN as in if I don't get it you No Get My Money!!! Understando!!! Comprehendo!!!

Do I Need To Speak In Portugese???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> GRANDFATHERED IN as in if I don't get it you No Get My Money!!! Understando!!! Comprehendo!!!
> 
> *Do I Need To Speak In Portugese*???


I though you just did there... :lol:

You realize that some day...even a grandfather dies.


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> GRANDFATHERED IN as in if I don't get it you No Get My Money!!! Understando!!! Comprehendo!!!
> 
> Do I Need To Speak In Portugese???


No, but if you're going to try and imitate Spanish, at least get the words right.


----------



## spartanstew

Lord Vader said:


> No, but if you're going to try and imitate Spanish, at least get the words right.


Shocker, a posters attempt at humor has alluded you.


----------



## Richierich

Lord Vader said:


> No, but if you're going to try and imitate Spanish, at least get the words right.


Gosh, I am so Sorry!!!


----------



## Lord Vader

spartanstew said:


> Shocker, a posters attempt at humor has alluded you.


Humor is so lame, and so overrated.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lord Vader said:


> Humor is so lame, and so overrated.


Especially when it fails... :lol:

I would know...I've failed plenty of times.


----------



## Richierich

lord vader said:


> as will green bay next sunday.
> 
> No matter. Whoever wins gets destroyed by the mighty steelers.


Green Bay will destroy Chicago and then destroy Pittsburgh, just like they did Atlanta Falcons!!!


----------



## MikeW

richierich said:


> This change will only affect plans bought on or after 2/15/2011.


Inherently speaking, a non-contract plan is month to month. You buy your 30 day plan on 1/1 and it goes through 1/31. You buy your plan on 2/1 and it goes through 2/28. When you buy your plan for March, it will have been purchased after 2/15 and will then have the cap/throttle applied.

And OMG...how OT this thread has become.

Sorry Mods...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

So with all this fine content being recorded...

Whenever this NOMAD thingy shows up later in 2011...it sounds like watching it all on some form of mobile devices will be a neat. As a frequent traveler...that would be cool and welcome.

[There...tried to get back on topic... ]


----------



## Lord Vader

richierich said:


> Green Bay will destroy Chicago and then destroy Pittsburgh, just like they did Atlanta Falcons!!!


That's a good one!

!rolling!rolling!rolling


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lord Vader said:


> That's a good one!


Yup - it will be good.

I'm already looking forward to watching many NFL content on whatever this NOMAD thing is some day.

The Packers win over the Steelers in this year's SB event will likely be one of my more favorite recordings.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

I didn't realize football teams were Nomadic. 

Mike


----------



## Richierich

Okay, we all need to Get Back To The Topic. Sorry for getting off track.


----------



## billsharpe

Who wants to bet on whether we see Nomad before we see the Super Bowl? 

That's February 6, by the way, unless we're talking about 2012...

I suspect not.


----------



## smiddy

richierich said:


> I have a "C" Note that says it will be here by January 23, 2012 at the latest so I'll take your bet that it will definitely be here by Feb. 6, 2012.


Kewl, can we order it online or something?


----------



## Richierich

smiddy said:


> Kewl, can we order it online or something?


Just kidding about the date as I know nothing but the sooner the better.:lol:


----------



## smiddy

richierich said:


> Just kidding about the date as I know nothing but the sooner the better.:lol:


Ah man, now I'm crushed.  !rolling Thanks! I do hope they come out soon, I will start this year's business traveling in two weeks. It would be kewl to have on that trip.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

billsharpe said:


> Who wants to bet on whether we see Nomad *before we see the Super Bowl*?
> 
> That's February 6, by the way, unless we're talking about 2012...
> 
> I suspect not.


I'd gladly wager against that... 

Easy money.


----------



## Lord Vader

Soon


----------



## Richierich

Lord Vader said:


> Soon


I just love that word, "SOON"!!!

It tells me Nothing!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I just love that word, "SOON"!!!
> 
> *It tells me Nothing*!!! :lol:


I suspect that's both the intent and the beauty of it all..


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'd gladly wager against that...


The "up to" 20 day bet or the "up to" 385 day bet?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> The "up to" 20 day bet or the "up to" 385 day bet?


The first one.


----------



## xmetalx

My bet has now been changed to Q2 2011 (May-June)... I dont see it appearing at all in the next 30-60 days...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

xmetalx said:


> My bet has now been changed to Q2 *2011* (May-June)... I dont see it appearing at all in the next 30-60 days...


You might just have the wrong quarter *and* year in there...


----------



## barryb

WANT.


----------



## Hdhead

barryb said:


> WANT.


I remember that it was built into the dashboard! Right?:grin::grin:


----------



## harsh

xmetalx said:


> My bet has now been changed to Q2 2011 (May-June)... I dont see it appearing at all in the next 30-60 days...





hdtvfan0001 said:


> You might just have the wrong quarter *and* year in there...


If the year is wrong, you lose your bet.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

barryb said:


> WANT.


Very Nice Nomad! 

However, I want a Nomad but not the Nomad. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> Very Nice Nomad!
> 
> However, I want a Nomad but not the Nomad.
> 
> Mike


...while still NOTMAD...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...while still NOTMAD...


No NOTMAD...unless I don't get a Nomad! 

Mike


----------



## barryb

First look?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Cool photo find!

The plot thickens...and the fertilizer spreads...


----------



## barryb

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Cool photo find!
> 
> The plot thickens...and the fertilizer spreads...


It does appear that *the* Nomad is a bit of a nomad.


----------



## spartanstew

This thread keeps rolling along.


----------



## kmcnamara

I'm just hoping we don't get this.


----------



## SParker

Me want live TV streaming to my PC in HD!


----------



## Jeremy W

SParker said:


> Me want live TV streaming to my PC in HD!


You can accomplish that with DirecTV2PC.


----------



## smiddy

SParker said:


> Me want live TV streaming to my PC in HD!


The only way you can get LIVE streaming to your PC is with a box tied to the PC. For instance, I have a HR21-200 connected to this PC here, and I use Media Center to interface to it and watch LIVE TV on this PC.


----------



## smiddy

Jeremy W said:


> You can accomplish that with DirecTV2PC.


He said LIVE TV...not a recording.


----------



## Hdhead

smiddy said:


> The only way you can get LIVE streaming to your PC is with a box tied to the PC. For instance, I have a HR21-200 connected to this PC here, and I use Media Center to interface to it and watch LIVE TV on this PC.


Or you can start a recording on a DVR then play it back on your laptop via Direct2pc in real time as it records. Do this often.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Hdhead said:


> Or you can start a recording on a DVR then play it back on your laptop via Direct2pc in real time as it records. Do this often.


That's still a recording though. I've done that several times myself but unless you hit record you got nothin'. :grin:

Mike


----------



## RACJ2

Hdhead said:


> Or you can start a recording on a DVR then play it back on your laptop via Direct2pc in real time as it records. Do this often.


Same here, but I call it "close to live" since there is at least a 30 second delay. When I'm watching 2 sporting events on the same DVR and swap to the tuner I'm watching on my laptop, you can see how much of a delay there is.


----------



## SParker

smiddy said:


> The only way you can get LIVE streaming to your PC is with a box tied to the PC. For instance, I have a HR21-200 connected to this PC here, and I use Media Center to interface to it and watch LIVE TV on this PC.


I said to heck with it and just bought a Slingbox Pro-HD. If sometime in the future there is a better solution I will just resell it.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I don't know, I have two Slingboxes and I'm still excited to see what DIRECTV has to offer.


----------



## smiddy

Hdhead said:


> Or you can start a recording on a DVR then play it back on your laptop via Direct2pc in real time as it records. Do this often.


While that works, I was being technically literal to the LIVE thing (which it isn't really, there are delays in the system all over the place, latency aside, built in delay).  So yeah, you could...I'd be stuck on LIVE.


----------



## smiddy

SParker said:


> I said to heck with it and just bought a Slingbox Pro-HD. If sometime in the future there is a better solution I will just resell it.


Yeah, I have the older model, which works well too, just not entirely HD though.


----------



## smiddy

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't know, I have two Slingboxes and I'm still excited to see what DIRECTV has to offer.


Yep, me too, travel for me starts next week, for this year. I don't think I'll have one before then.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> Yep, me too, travel for me starts next week, for this year. I don't think I'll have one before then.


The road warrior cycle has begun here already...

By the way...nice Avatar...thief.... !rolling


----------



## steinmeg

HELP HELP
I want to start a thread on my areas possible loss of FOX on DirecTV....FAQ tells me to click on the New Thread Button...I cannot find it anywhere....Need your help here,,,,
THANX


----------



## hdtvfan0001

steinmeg said:


> HELP HELP
> I want to start a thread on my areas possible loss of FOX on DirecTV....FAQ tells me to click on the New Thread Button...I cannot find it anywhere....Need your help here,,,,
> THANX


You need to first go into the proper forum (check the forums tab above)...

Once there, the New Thread button can be used to start a thread - there may also be such a thread already started...so you may consider doing a search on that first...that button is also at the top of the screen here...


----------



## spartanstew

smiddy said:


> Yep, me too, travel for me starts next week, for this year. I don't think I'll have one before then.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> The road warrior cycle has begun here already...


I've already logged 10 hotel nights in 2011, with 4 more to come this month. 14 scheduled for next month too.


----------



## NR4P

spartanstew said:


> I've already logged 10 hotel nights in 2011, with 4 more to come this month. 14 scheduled for next month too.


10 already? Has me beat. I'm at 7 and already scheduled a few in Feb. and more out through April. Could use a product like this since I never owned a Slingbox.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> I've already logged 10 hotel nights in 2011, with 4 more to come this month. 14 scheduled for next month too.





NR4P said:


> 10 already? Has me beat. I'm at 7 and already scheduled a few in Feb. and more out through April. Could use a product like this since I never owned a Slingbox.


Seven here too.

Looks like there's a market for something that will add joy to road warriors.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seven here too.
> 
> Looks like there's a market for something that will add joy to road warriors.


I'm not even a road warrior and I'd find this useful. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> I'm not even a road warrior and I'd find this useful.
> 
> Mike


Bet that's also true.


----------



## Hdhead

spartanstew said:


> I've already logged 10 hotel nights in 2011, with 4 more to come this month. 14 scheduled for next month too.


4 for me. All in Vegas. Does that count?:grin:


----------



## SParker

smiddy said:


> Yeah, I have the older model, which works well too, just not entirely HD though.


Well I watch mostly at home so I'm hoping it looks good locally on the PC. It should.


----------



## Newshawk

Hdhead said:


> 4 for me. All in Vegas. Does that count?:grin:


Depends... how much did you lose?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SParker said:


> Well I watch mostly at home so *I'm hoping it looks good locally on the PC.* It should.


That you could do with DirecTV2PC today already...


----------



## Garry

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That you could do with DirecTV2PC today already...


But doesn't DirecTV2PC only work with some computers. Unless I did something wrong, it doesn't work for me.


----------



## SParker

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That you could do with DirecTV2PC today already...


So I can change channels at will with Directv2PC?


----------



## Richierich

SParker said:


> So I can change channels at will with Directv2PC?


No, you can Only Watch Recorded Material with DIRECTV2PC.


----------



## Jeremy W

SParker said:


> So I can change channels at will with Directv2PC?


Not with DirecTV2PC alone, but if you add in SHEF, then yes! :lol:


----------



## SParker

Jeremy W said:


> Not with DirecTV2PC alone, but if you add in SHEF, then yes! :lol:


SHEF?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Jeremy W said:


> Not with DirecTV2PC alone, but if you add in SHEF, then yes! :lol:


Isn't that what NOAA uses for coding real time weather data. :scratchin

Mike


----------



## HoTat2

SHEF --- "Set-top Box HTTP Exported Functionality"

DirecTV's name for the specific interface and command/response communication protocol used between web applications and their networked set-top box receivers and DVRs.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SParker said:


> So I can change channels at will with Directv2PC?


Scope creep....


----------



## Mike Bertelson

HoTat2 said:


> SHEF --- "Set-top Box HTTP Exported Functionality"
> 
> DirecTV's name for the specific interface and command/response communication protocol used between web applications and their networked set-top box receivers and DVRs.


That makes much more sense than this 

Mike


----------



## HoTat2

Yeah ... 

But I suppose to simplify its really just a geeky name for the method of IP control DirecTV developed for control of their networked boxes through web apps.


----------



## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> But I suppose to simplify its really just a geeky name for the method of IP control DirecTV developed for control of their networked boxes through web apps.


Does this need to differ radically from the time honored serial port control protocol?

Looking at the documents, I see that it is clearly more of a two-way dialog designed more towards playback.


----------



## RACJ2

Lord Vader said:


> Green Bay is, because they'll be wandering home after watching the MIGHTY STEELERS claim their 7th ring.


Hmmm... who's the team wandering home?


----------



## Lord Vader

Obviously Green Bay didn't win. Pittsburgh lost. Three turnovers, each resulting in a touchdown. Unimpressive the Packers were.


----------



## Jeremy W

Lord Vader said:


> Obviously Green Bay didn't win. Pittsburgh lost. Three turnovers, each resulting in a touchdown. Unimpressive the Packers were.


Spoken like a true Steelers fan.


----------



## Lord Vader

I can't help it if it's the truth. Big Ben performed poorly. Two of his interceptions directly led to immediate touchdowns. Mendenhall, as usual, fumbles in a big game, and that directly leads to another TD. Take even one of those away and the Steelers win their 7th ring. 

Rodgers is quite good, but he had his shares of poor play. Fortunately for him, not one was a pick, though.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Not sure what any of this recent discussion has to do with the NOMAD thingy folks have been talking about...

But congrats to the Steelers on a great season and AFC Championship.

Congrats to the Pack for returning the Lombardi hardware back to Titletown.

Aaron Rodgers had the highest QB rating through all the playoffs ever, and 2nd highest in any Superbowl. Had his receivers not dropped some perfect passes...he would have shreaded the Steelers defense for another 100+ years. The tradition shown with both teams made this game a classic.

Great game - the kind of stuff work saving on my DVRs for viewing again...


----------



## Doug Brott

Guys .. This isn't the Superbowl thread .. :backtotop please.


----------



## SDimwit

Doug Brott said:


> Guys .. This isn't the Superbowl thread .. :backtotop please.


Is there any new information on the original topic? Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

SDimwit said:


> Is there any new information on the original topic? Inquiring minds want to know...


No more than has already been discussed in this thread.

Mike


----------



## SDimwit

I keep hoping Mike...


----------



## RACJ2

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not sure what any of this recent discussion has to do with the NOMAD thingy folks have been talking about...
> 
> But congrats to the Steelers on a great season and AFC Championship.
> 
> Congrats to the Pack for returning the Lombardi hardware back to Titletown.
> 
> Aaron Rodgers had the highest QB rating through all the playoffs ever, and 2nd highest in any Superbowl. Had his receivers not dropped some perfect passes...he would have shreaded the Steelers defense for another 100+ years. The tradition shown with both teams made this game a classic.
> 
> Great game - the kind of stuff work saving on my DVRs for viewing again...


The relevance is this: Nomad - a person who continually moves from place to place; wanderer. Thus the reference to the "team that is wandering". In the eyes of an unbiased fan, the Packers defense caused the turnovers and thus won the game based on that performance. They rattled "Big Ben" and Clay Matthews put a huge hit on Mendenhall to force that fumble.

Just trying to explain the relevance, so we can get back on topic.


----------



## StvRbrsn

Neat concept.


----------



## Bob Coxner

Michael Hilley said:


> DirecTV's marketing survey regarding the NOMAD makes sense, considering subscribers interest in DirecTV internet-delivered content, the emphasis/shift in internet-delivered content overall, and Echostar's acquisition/product inclusion of SlingMedia, not letting Dish use this to garner DirecTV converts.
> 
> Functionality (placeshifting internet streaming PVR) described in the NOMAD is available in the Monsoon (formerly Hava) Vulkano.
> Had reservations about picking up one of these, based upon reviews and feedback... basically not ready for release (sort of still isn't), but Monsoon had a sale, the 16GB SDHC cheaper than the 8GB SDHC on Amazon, the 1TB cheaper than the 500GB on Amazon, so I decided to go ahead.
> 
> When I get this all setup at home and operational (end of November), I'll chime in again and let dbstalk know what works... and what doesn't...


I haven't seen any updates to your posts about the Vulkano. They're currently running a sale, with the Platinum for $99 and I'm thinking about getting one.

Have they ironed out the problems you had with using it with DTV? I would be hooking it up to an HR20-700 DVR. I'd like to view on an iPad and Touch. I have good Internet and my upload is pretty consistent around 475kbps, 10mbps down (although I know that part is not important). The Platinum model doesn't have a hard drive so I would need the unit to be able to control the HR20 completely. Last year you said those controls were lacking.

I currently use an old Sony LocationFree for slinging. It works really well but I can only view on a Sony PSP or PC/laptop. Sony abandoned the technology so no hope of it ever being ported to the iPad.

My other choice is obviously a Sling. I like the Sling technology but I'm not happy with the prices they charge for the iPad and Touch/iPhone apps and the Sling device itself would be at least $150.

Thanks for any advice you can give.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I have two slingboxes and they're great. Having said that, they are expensive to get and the apps are expensive too.


----------



## RAD

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have two slingboxes and they're great. Having said that, they are expensive to get and the apps are expensive too.


But once you've made that investment you're done, no monthly charge to use it from Sling. I'm want to see what DIRECTV will be charging for the NOMAD hardware and what the monthly charge will be before saying Sling is expensive.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have two slingboxes and they're great. Having said that, they are expensive to get and the apps are expensive too.


My Slingbox app didn't cost me a penny.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Lord Vader said:


> My Slingbox app didn't cost me a penny.


ha gotta be android then. lol


----------



## Lord Vader

It's $29.99 on Android phones. Mine didn't cost me anything, however.


----------



## Hoosier205

"Lord Vader" said:


> It's $29.99 on Android phones. Mine didn't cost me anything, however.


Why not?


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Lord Vader said:


> It's $29.99 on Android phones. Mine didn't cost me anything, however.


exactly. i assumed to begin with you downloaded it off one of the many sites you can get the apps for free.

which is wrong btw b/c ur not supporting the developer that way.

if not then how'd you get it for free then??


----------



## Lord Vader

I'm special.


----------



## cbednara

I have both a slingbox and a vulkano.  I want placeshifting to mostly watch shows at the gym on my iphone while I am running. The both are about the same for streaming over 3G or wifi. I was using the slingbox when a friend got a good deal on 2 Vulkano's for $200, I bought one. I attached a 1Tb drive to te Vulkano so I can store shows. There is no "easy" way to get it on my iphone, but it is less steps than when I extracted shows on my old DirecTivo.

The way I get shows on my iphone is to start the PC Vulkano app, use the HR24 remote to select the show I want to record, hit record on the PC Vulkano app, then hit play on the HR24.

The beauty of this is I can record a whole season of a show, I just have to tell the Vulkano how long to record for.

If DTV offers something that does this from the HR24, I will get it as long as the cost is not too high.


----------



## wco81

So end of February.

Did I miss the announcement?


----------



## Lord Vader

February 29th


----------



## wco81

So leap year then.

And updates with fixes the next leap year after that?


----------



## billsharpe

This thread's been going for almost five months and Nomad is still wandering around (pun intended) out there with no home...


----------



## jacmyoung

"billsharpe" said:


> This thread's been going for almost five months and Nomad is still wandering around (pun intended) out there with no home...


The iPad app is now available, hopefully this is a sign what to come.


----------



## itzme

So is it anticipated that someday the ipad app will have nomad functionality? Will that mean we can watch any of our whole-home DVRs content on the ipad? Via wifi from anywhere?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

billsharpe said:


> This thread's been going for almost five months and Nomad is still wandering around (pun intended) out there with no home...


In the past...rumor to reality has taken a year or more...especially those things that are intriguing and/or complex.

Whole Home DVR Service (aka MRV) was over a year in the making from rumors to field testing to release.


----------



## wco81

itzme said:


> So is it anticipated that someday the ipad app will have nomad functionality? Will that mean we can watch any of our whole-home DVRs content on the ipad? Via wifi from anywhere?


That's what Comcast is working towards.

And HBO too.


----------



## wco81

Time Warner is having problems with content providers sending a cease and desist letter for "rebroadcasting" some channels on an iPad app.

Wonder if that will affect Nomad, if and ever it comes out.

Or the networks are just trying to get more money because it's associated with the iPad.


----------



## Go Beavs

wco81 said:


> Time Warner is having problems with content providers sending a cease and desist letter for "rebroadcasting" some channels on an iPad app.
> 
> *Wonder if that will affect Nomad, if and ever it comes out.*
> 
> Or the networks are just trying to get more money because it's associated with the iPad.


This is probably what some of the hold up on streaming has been. DIRECTV is working out distribution deals with content providers first, rather than rushing out with streaming apps. They want to avoid messy litigation.


----------



## tonyd79

"Go Beavs" said:


> This is probably what some of the hold up on streaming has been. DIRECTV is working out distribution deals with content providers first, rather than rushing out with streaming apps. They want to avoid messy litigation.


Actually, SatRacer has hinted that this is one of the things that holds up new HD as well. It is not a stretch to think that directv is negotiating on streaming and portability rights when they sign up a new channel. Especially in light of the vod and to go aspects of HBO coming along with new HBO hd.


----------



## jacmyoung

How come no one was suing Dish Network? They have been streaming with Sling for years.


----------



## Laxguy

jacmyoung said:


> How come no one was suing Dish Network? They have been streaming with Sling for years.


The market potential has exploded over the last 12 months. Sling is small potatoes compared with the iPad base, not to mention all the other tablets now out there and about to be out there.

Also, we don't know for sure that they haven't been sued.....


----------



## xzi

jacmyoung said:


> How come no one was suing Dish Network? They have been streaming with Sling for years.


Probably a combination of the analog loophole that is Slingbox, and the fact that you can't sling unless you are paying the provider for their content already. Obviously all the new iPad apps technically are setup to work the same way, but you can't expect these lawyers to understand that. As far as they are concerned, this stuff is "on the internet", ready for the stealing.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> How come no one was suing Dish Network? They have been streaming with Sling for years.





Laxguy said:


> The market potential has exploded over the last 12 months. Sling is small potatoes compared with the iPad base, not to mention all the other tablets now out there and about to be out there.





xzi said:


> Obviously all the new iPad apps technically are setup to work the same way, but you can't expect these lawyers to understand that.


There is a huge difference between what Dish has been doing and what TW is doing. The TW app is accessing Internet streams of the channels that TW is providing, while Dish is only making available content that is already on or being tuned by the DVR. Huge difference.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> The TW app is accessing Internet streams of the channels that TW is providing, while Dish is only making available content that is already on or being tuned by the DVR. Huge difference.


The providers want the carriers to use TV Everywhere, but they still seem okay with streaming your own recordings (though I'm not sure why).


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> They have been streaming with Sling for years.


Until the advent of the USB Sling adapter, Slingboxen have always utilized the Analog Hole which makes them relatively untouchable.

I'm thinking that the implementation of HDCP that doesn't simply disable outputs describes what kind of slicing, dicing and chopping must be done to a digital HD stream so that it isn't considered a digital copy.


----------



## wco81

Yeah but iPad apps. aren't giving you 720p or 1080i, unless they take advantage of the iPad2's HDMI output (scaling?).

Or use AirPlay.

So digital or not, it may not be better than the analog output.

I think the objections have more to do with the fact that iPads are selling well and the content owners don't want to help sales (by putting their content on it) unless they get a taste of the action.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> There is a huge difference between what Dish has been doing and what TW is doing. The TW app is accessing Internet streams of the channels that TW is providing, while Dish is only making available content that is already on or being tuned by the DVR. Huge difference.


I know the difference but it is not as if TWC is letting people stream for free. They get to stream the contents they subscribe, not different than Sling.


----------



## Beerstalker

It's not different to you or me, but it's very different to the producers, writers, directors, actors, content providers, etc.

Don't you remember the writer's strike a while back. One of the big things in it was the fact that the writers weren't getting paid for their content being streamed on the internet. These people seem to think that they should be paid for every single different way that you can consume content. They don't care if you started watching the show on TV, then watched more on your ipad on the way to work, then finished it on your computer at work. To you and me that is only watching the show once. To them that is 3 different viewings and they want to be paid 3 times for it.

Sure whish I could get paid like that on my job. Instead of only getting paid my salary for designing a product I could get paid for each and every one they make, then for every repair made to it, for every time it gets resold as used equipment to someone else, etc.


----------



## wco81

More accurate would be that if the producers found a way to get paid for those different viewings, the writers wanted their cut, just like everyone else.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> It's not different to you or me, but it's very different to the producers, writers, directors, actors, content providers, etc.
> 
> Don't you remember the writer's strike a while back. One of the big things in it was the fact that the writers weren't getting paid for their content being streamed on the internet. These people seem to think that they should be paid for every single different way that you can consume content. They don't care if you started watching the show on TV, then watched more on your ipad on the way to work, then finished it on your computer at work. To you and me that is only watching the show once. To them that is 3 different viewings and they want to be paid 3 times for it.
> 
> Sure whish I could get paid like that on my job. Instead of only getting paid my salary for designing a product I could get paid for each and every one they make, then for every repair made to it, for every time it gets resold as used equipment to someone else, etc.


I understand that, but that does not explain why they did not try to stop Sling. In fact there are several Sling copycats on the market. Usually we see cease and desist against smaller players more frequently because the smaller guys quickly fold without resources to fight it.

DISH not only has freely promoted Sling, with apps for all mobile smart devices including iPad, they even tried to coin the "TV Everywhere" trademark. TWC only allowed streaming at home on the same network if I recall correctly.

We also have the DirecTV2PC which streams the exact digital HD copies throughout the same home network. So I don't think it has to do with the analog/digital divide.


----------



## Beerstalker

I'm pretty sure they did try to stop Sling when it first came out but Sling was able to get by because it was using some kind of analog loophole.

These new streaming technologies are doing everything digitally so it is different (don't ask me why, but that is what the government has decided).

The other big difference is that the new streaming they seem to be having big issues with is happening over the internet. Even though you have to be in your own home the signal is actually coming over the internet from Time Warner directly to your iPad, it does not go through your cable receivers. IT also allows them to watch live TV which I think is part of the problem. 

DirecTV2PC on the other hand is not going over the internet but directly from the DirecTV receiver to your computer, it also only streams your recordings. I think that DirecTV could probably create an app that streamed your recordings directly to the iPad in your own home right now if they wanted to and they would be ok. But I think DirecTV is trying to just do one big update that will allow streaming live and recorded content within your home, as well as letting recorded content be transferred to your iPad to be taken away from your home. That is going to mean new agreements with the content providers.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> I'm pretty sure they did try to stop Sling when it first came out but Sling was able to get by because it was using some kind of analog loophole.


I'd like to see evidence of it. BTW the Dish 922 has Sling built in, I assume the process is entirely digital now.



> The other big difference is that the new streaming they seem to be having big issues with is happening over the internet. Even though you have to be in your own home the signal is actually coming over the internet from Time Warner directly to your iPad, it does not go through your cable receivers. IT also allows them to watch live TV which I think is part of the problem.


That is a good point although it can be easily worked around with a Sling or DirecTV2PC like structure, so I doubt this is the key.



> DirecTV2PC on the other hand is not going over the internet but directly from the DirecTV receiver to your computer, it also only streams your recordings. I think that DirecTV could probably create an app that streamed your recordings directly to the iPad in your own home right now if they wanted to and they would be ok. But I think DirecTV is trying to just do one big update that will allow streaming live and recorded content within your home, as well as letting recorded content be transferred to your iPad to be taken away from your home. That is going to mean new agreements with the content providers.


It will be strange if one company must secure a new agreement in order to do the same things its direct competitor has been doing all along without the need of such agreement.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

What was this thread about again? [it's almost impossible to tell at this point]


----------



## smiddy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What was this thread about again? [it's almost impossible to tell at this point]


Vapor...:lol:


----------



## jacmyoung

smiddy said:


> Vapor...:lol:


Or something on the mind of every content delivery company, in case it sails, we certainly don't want to be the one who have missed the boat, even though the image of that boat is still blurry.


----------



## brako

I was actually able to put my hands on a "Nomad" device this week. Its real. I was not able to get a release date but it was my understanding (and belief) that a great deal of work is being put into the product and service.

I'm anxious to get my own


----------



## Groundhog45

brako said:


> I was actually able to put my hands on a "Nomad" device this week. Its real. I was not able to get a release date but it was my understanding (and belief) that a great deal of work is being put into the product and service.
> 
> I'm anxious to get my own


Very interesting.


----------



## Richierich

Is this the DirecTV2PC Thread???


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What was this thread about again? [it's almost impossible to tell at this point]


Lately it has been about possible DMCA or copyright problems that the NOMAD might face in its assumed marketplace. Comparisons to DIRECTV2PC probably aren't reasonable, but comparisons to Echostar's Sling adapter may ultimately be useful in establishing precedent towards provider acceptance.


----------



## harsh

brako said:


> I was actually able to put my hands on a "Nomad" device this week.


Can you tell us what kind of connections it has on it?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> Lately it has been about possible DMCA or copyright problems that the NOMAD might face in its assumed marketplace. Comparisons to DIRECTV2PC probably aren't reasonable, but comparisons to Echostar's Sling adapter may ultimately be useful in establishing precedent towards provider acceptance.


Then again...neither comparison may be applicable.

We simply don't know the facts.


----------



## jacmyoung

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...neither comparison may be applicable.
> 
> We simply don't know the facts.


There is one fact, streaming, preferably mobile streaming is a bandwagon no company wants to be left out, regardless how its future may hold.


----------



## Beerstalker

I personally don't care about mobile streaming right now. With the way internet providers and cell phone companies are limiting bandwidth, etc. I'm just not that interested. Especially considering my home internet provider right now would be worthless for this (HugheNet Satellite Internet).

I am very interested in being able to stream programs within my own home over my wireless network, and being able to transfer recordings to my iPad/iPhone/Laptop to take with me outside my home. I would much rather have the recording stored right on my device so I can access it anywhere without having to worry about WiFi availability, Cell Phone coverage, etc.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> I understand that, but that does not explain why they did not try to stop Sling. In fact there are several Sling copycats on the market. Usually we see cease and desist against smaller players more frequently because the smaller guys quickly fold without resources to fight it.
> 
> DISH not only has freely promoted Sling, with apps for all mobile smart devices including iPad, they even tried to coin the "TV Everywhere" trademark. TWC only allowed streaming at home on the same network if I recall correctly.
> 
> We also have the DirecTV2PC which streams the exact digital HD copies throughout the same home network. So I don't think it has to do with the analog/digital divide.


The DCMA gives almost total control to the providers for digital content.
Analog is the loophole used by Sling and things like the hauppauge PVR.
Streaming over the internet with a Sling, may be digital, but due to bandwidth limitation, is anything but "HD", which seems to be where the current line is being drawn.


----------



## Beerstalker

I think I read that in the new Sling loaded DVRs it actually still goes through a Digtal to Analog conversion, and then gets converted back from analog to digital before it is sent out. It's just that it all happens inside the box so it's not as noticeable as having to hook up component cables between the receiver and Sling box.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> I think I read that in the new Sling loaded DVRs it actually still goes through a Digtal to Analog conversion, and then gets converted back from analog to digital before it is sent out. It's just that it all happens inside the box so it's not as noticeable as having to hook up component cables between the receiver and Sling box.


If that's true, that's sad. Whether it was done to make hardware development easier or to appease content providers, it's just sad.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> The DCMA gives almost total control to the providers for digital content.
> Analog is the loophole used by Sling and things like the hauppauge PVR.
> Streaming over the internet with a Sling, may be digital, but due to bandwidth limitation, is anything but "HD", which seems to be where the current line is being drawn.


If true then there is no longer some analog loophole once all contents are initially delivered from the sources digitally. Whether some carrier manages to do some digital and analog back and forth conversions along the way does not create any loophole.

As far as quality, since the intended use is mostly on smartphones, iPads and tablets, the analog/digital conversion issue is not as bad as it may sound. I just don't think any conversion can create any loophole, if so that is a giant hole only a fool would have left it there.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> If true then there is no longer some analog loophole once all contents are initially delivered from the sources digitally.


I think you may be missing the loophole. It's not how the programing is delivered but how it's being outputted.
A good example of this is DirecTV2PC. If your video card/monitor doesn't support HDCP, then you can't play the recording, "unless" you use the VGA [analog] output/connection.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> I think you may be missing the loophole. It's not how the programing is delivered but how it's being outputted.
> A good example of this is DirecTV2PC. If your video card/monitor doesn't support HDCP, then you can't play the recording, "unless" you use the VGA [analog] output/connection.


All Sling outputs are digital since streaming output is a digital output. The smart devices then display from such output.


----------



## brako

harsh said:


> Can you tell us what kind of connections it has on it?


It was connected to a power supply and Ethernet. It did have a USB port that was unconnected.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> All Sling outputs are digital since streaming output is a digital output. The smart devices then display from such output.


Which would be fine if the sling was the source, but they aren't, so the DVR outputs analog to them, hence the analog loophole.
The hauppauge PVR stores in digital, but connects via analog.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> Which would be fine if the sling was the source, but they aren't, so the DVR outputs analog to them, hence the analog loophole.
> The hauppauge PVR stores in digital, but connects via analog.


I did specifically mention the 922 with Sling built in.

Didn't the Sling HD pro have an HDMI input?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> I did specifically mention the 922 with Sling built in.
> 
> Didn't the Sling HD pro have an HDMI input?


Beerstalker seems to have answered that in post #1156

Here's another that does have HDMI, but "more than likely" not HDCP. 
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/h264prorecorder/


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Didn't the Sling HD pro have an HDMI input?


The Sling PRO (not the PRO-HD) had an HDMI-like jack on the back, but it was only used to connect a component cable adapter. In the current climate, there is no chance in hell Slingbox could get an HDMI license. Zero.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> The Sling PRO (not the PRO-HD) had an HDMI-like jack on the back, but it was only used to connect a component cable adapter. In the current climate, there is no chance in hell Slingbox could get an HDMI license. Zero.


Would such limitation exist in a 922?

So basically many of you are saying Sling (and a few copycats) lucked out, everyone else who came late is now screwed?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> Would such limitation exist in a 922?
> 
> So basically many of you are saying Sling (and a few copycats) lucked out, everyone else who came late is now screwed?


Not quite sure I'd put it that way.
Any one of these can connect through analog, and those that have a digital connection, "more than likely" can't support HDCP, so they would only connect to non copyrighted material.

I once played with a cable DVR that had firewire. I could record/copy everything to my PC digitally, but only non copyrighted material would playback.


----------



## jacmyoung

veryoldschool said:


> I once played with a cable DVR that had firewire. I could record/copy everything to my PC digitally, but only non copyrighted material would playback.


I think you meant only non HDCP protected (or non copy protected) materials would playback. HDCP prevents recording or making a copy of the material, I don't see anywhere it serves to prevent streaming.

While I am not familiar with the 922 with Sling built in, I did not hear that copy protected materials were prevented from being streamed off the 922.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> I think you meant only non HDCP protected (or non copy protected) materials would playback. HDCP prevents recording or making a copy of the material, I don't see anywhere it serves to prevent streaming.
> 
> While I am not familiar with the 922 with Sling built in, I did not hear that copy protected materials were prevented from being streamed off the 922.


 it all has to do with playback.
With the firewire I could copy every recording to my PC, but only the non copyrighted would play, though the copyrighted had a file size that showed it had been copied.
Streaming is no different as it's playing back.
"Again" DirecTV2PC works exactly this way and it's streaming.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> Streaming is no different as it's playing back.


Bingo! If you can playback from a legal copy, you should be able to stream from that copy, if you cannot playback from the copy on your PC, which was an illegal copy, you cannot stream from it. There is no legal means to prohibit streaming. That is not to say the content owners cannot prohibit streaming through licensing agreements.

I don't think HDCP is designed to prevent streaming from a legal copy, although if it is true that the 922 must do internal digital and analog conversion in order to allow the built in Sling to function, it may indicate HDCP's technical capability to control how a digital content is delivered, and the conversion is a way to overcome such technical control, not to create a legal loophole. There is no provision in HDCP to prevent streaming from a legal copy.

As far as DirecTV2PC requiring an HDCP compliant device to stream off the DVR, that clearly does not prevent streaming to an HDCP compliant device at a remote location, from a technical standpoint, they just decided to limit it to the devices on the same home network out of caution maybe.


----------



## harsh

brako said:


> It was connected to a power supply and Ethernet. It did have a USB port that was unconnected.


No coax or RCA jacks?


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> No coax or RCA jacks?


Why would it have RCA jacks?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> Bingo! If you can playback from a legal copy, you should be able to stream from that copy, if you cannot playback from the copy on your PC, which was an illegal copy, you cannot stream from it. There is no legal means to prohibit streaming. That is not to say the content owners cannot prohibit streaming through licensing agreements.


Which is to say that whoever is delivering the content needs to ensure any copyrighted material stays secure.

We seem to be running around in circles here.
I replied to your post about the analog loophole and how some manufacturers are able to exploit it, as it doesn't violate the DMCA.
I've tried to explain what needs to be done when there isn't an analog "link" in the chain.
I'm not trying/going to debate the legal issues or users rights, but merely explain what is going on.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> As far as DirecTV2PC requiring an HDCP compliant device to stream off the DVR, that clearly does not prevent streaming to an HDCP compliant device at a remote location, from a technical standpoint, they just decided to limit it to the devices on the same home network out of caution maybe.


 At this point I think you're just throwing "stuff" out there to see if it will stick to anything.

DirecTV2PC will only output digitally to a screen through HDCP.
It will output the same content through [analog] VGA.
In it's development they were able to lock out capturing.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> Which is to say that whoever is delivering the content needs to ensure any copyrighted material stays secure.


If DirecTV2PC should allow my PC to stream from my DVR at a remote location such as in a hotel, that does not break the security of the protected content, and no "loophole" even exists in this case. I am simply trying to demonstrate there is no need to find a legal loophole to stream an HDCP protected content, at the same time the content owner can include certain limitation in the licensing agreement.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> *At this point I think you're just throwing "stuff" out there to see if it will stick to anything*.
> 
> DirecTV2PC will only output digitally to a screen through HDCP.
> It will output the same content through [analog] VGA.
> In it's development they were able to lock out capturing.


I've heard of "spaghetti code"...but you may have discovered "spaghetti posting". :lol:


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> Why would it have RCA jacks?


I use them as an example of a familiar connector that is outside the realm of the computer connectors that the poster indicated were there.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> *If *DirecTV2PC* should* allow my PC to stream from my DVR at a remote location such as in a hotel, that does not break the security of the protected content, and no "loophole" even exists in this case. I am simply trying to demonstrate there is no need to find a legal loophole to stream an HDCP protected content, at the same time the content owner can include certain limitation in the licensing agreement.


Since there isn't an "if", there is no "should". :nono:


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> In it's development they were able to lock out capturing.


Precisely! Streaming does not enable capturing. DirecTV already allows it, just that you need to be on the same network. There is no legal barrier to allow it outside of the home network, but there may be difficulties with the content owners DirecTV does not want to run into trouble with.

If you are correct streaming an HDCP content is illegal, it is illegal whether you stream it at home or from a hotel. DirecTV2PC would have been illegal.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> Precisely! Streaming does not enable capturing. DirecTV already allows it, just that you need to be on the same network. There is no legal barrier to allow it outside of the home network, but there may be difficulties with the content owners DirecTV does not want to run into trouble with.
> 
> If you are correct streaming an HDCP content is illegal, it is illegal whether you stream it at home or from a hotel. DirecTV2PC would have been illegal.


I'm NOT saying streaming digital content is illegal. What I keep trying to point out here is that the method used needs to be "proven" to keep it secure.
This seems to be where you're having problems. Put one analog "link" in the chain and this no longer needs to meet the secured requirement.

As far as DirecTV2PC outside of a home network is concerned, who or how many have an upload speed that could support the full bit rate?

I [personally] don't think the content providers are that concerned about "degraded" programing escaping their control.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> Put one analog "link" in the chain and this no longer needs to meet the secured requirement.


While you believe this creates some loophole, I argue this violates the HDCP license. An HDCP compliant DVR cannot break the HDCP codes in the process of delivering the protected content, doing so creates no loophole rather violates the license. Yet no one seems to raise hell with Dish.



> As far as DirecTV2PC outside of a home network is concerned, who or how many have an upload speed that could support the full bit rate?


You do know in any streaming environment the users can select resolutions to work with the bandwidth?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> While you believe this creates some loophole, I argue this violates the HDCP license. An HDCP compliant DVR cannot break the HDCP codes in the process of delivering the protected content, doing so creates no loophole rather violates the license. Yet no one seems to raise hell with Dish.


 What don't you get about the DMCA? Once you're out of the digital domain, you're no longer governed by it.


> You do know in any streaming environment the users can select resolutions to work with the bandwidth?


What don't you understand about DirecTV2PC? The only resolution change ANYWHERE, is your monitor's.

At this point "I'm done", as this has become a waste of time in what seems to be repeating every previous post.


----------



## Jeremy W

veryoldschool said:


> What don't you understand about DirecTV2PC? The only resolution change ANYWHERE, is your monitor's.


Yep, the DVR is not capable of changing the resolution or bitrate of a stream.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> What don't you get about the DMCA? Once you're out of the digital domain, you're no longer governed by it.


It is a violation if an HDCP device such as the 922, somehow breaks the HDCP protected contents out of the HDCP domain, in order to deliver them, which part of this statement is wrong? Yet no one seems to complain.



> What don't you understand about DirecTV2PC? The only resolution change ANYWHERE, is your monitor's.


You mean to tell me they cannot output in different resolutions if they want to, when the DVR itself is perfectly capable of output in any resolution it is instructed to, such as 480p?

Just because it is not available does not mean it cannot be done. I am simply trying to refute the assertion that somehow the 922 can do it because it had found an analog loophole.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> It is a violation if an HDCP device such as the 922, somehow breaks the HDCP protected contents out of the HDCP domain, in order to deliver them, which part of this statement is wrong? Yet no one seems to complain.
> 
> You mean to tell me they cannot output in different resolutions if they want to, when the DVR itself is perfectly capable of output in any resolution it is instructed to, such as 480p?
> 
> Just because it is not available does not mean it cannot be done. I am simply trying to refute the assertion that somehow the 922 can do it because it had found an analog loophole.


:bang:beatdeadhorse:

You seem to use terms that you don't understand and as such mix up their use.
HDCP is used over HDMI, for the digital output.
This too is used on a PC for DirecTV2PC when using a digital output.
DirecTV DVRs encode the program file on the drive, so should someone try to copy the file, they'll get garbage.
Analog outputs of the DVR don't have HDCP, but "could have" Macrovision copyright protection.
Currently DirecTV seems to merely block the component outputs for some of their content.

As for DirecTV2PC, the app is merely reading the file on the drive, so there is no resolution change, as it isn't going through the chips that do that.

I'm getting the feeling that I'm trying to explain things to someone with a blue vest at a local retail store, which are known to not have a clue about what they're selling.

I said before this was a waste of time, and "for the record" don't bother to reply to this, because I'm "so done here with you", that your reply will merely sit here unless someone else wants to waste their time with you.


----------



## jacmyoung

Being dramatic does not help you if you cannot support your own assertion that Sling does it because it uses some analog loophole, when I have already demonstrated to you the 922 is an HDCP licensed device therefore removing copy protection in order to stream protected digital content, is illegal. There is no loophole for the 922, yet it does the streaming just fine, more importantly no content owners we know of had complained.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:


> Being dramatic does not help you if you cannot support your own assertion that Sling does it because it uses some analog loophole, when I have already demonstrated to you the 922 is an HDCP licensed device therefore removing copy protection in order to stream protected digital content, is illegal. There is no loophole for the 922, yet it does the streaming just fine, more importantly no content owners we know of had complained.


OK.......several of us that have been following this thread for a while get it that you don't get it. VOS has forgotten more on the topic than most people will ever understand.

Most important - all this also has very little to do with the thread topic....as no one knows (as fact) what features/capabilities this rumored device will offer.

Debating the merits & methods of copy protection is a totally moot point, as such a device would *have to comply* with whatever regulations impact such technology.


----------



## jacmyoung

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Most important - all this also has very little to do with the thread topic....as no one knows (as fact) what features/capabilities this rumored device will offer.


If you don't know what the actual topic is, how can you then determine some discussion made here is moot or off the topic, which you don't even know what it is?

The OP started this thread by telling us the questions DirecTV asked him clearly implied something close to what Sling is providing. Therefore whether Sling-like streaming is legal or not is certainly an on topic discussion.

It is reasonable to argue Sling, as a standalone device, might have used the analog loophole, the same cannot be said about the 922.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> If you don't know what the actual topic is...
> 
> It is reasonable to argue Sling, as a standalone device, might have used the analog loophole, the same cannot be said about the 922.


I'd say the title might give everyone a clue as to the topic.
I doubt there is any "argument" about the sling standalone, and as for what Dish does, you might find a better answer for you in a dish forum, and not a DirecTV, "but" here's what has been posted here: 


Beerstalker said:


> I think I read that in the new Sling loaded DVRs it actually still goes through a Digtal to Analog conversion, and then gets converted back from analog to digital before it is sent out. It's just that it all happens inside the box so it's not as noticeable as having to hook up component cables between the receiver and Sling box.


----------



## jacmyoung

If what Beerstalker said was true, then it is a violation of the HDCP licensing agreement, because an HDCP certified device may not remove HDCP protection then deliver such content, so how did the 922 get the certification in the first place?

Since it is unlikely the certification process had missed something about the 922, it is reasonable to say the so called "analog loophole" wasn't the answer as far as the 922 goes.


----------



## futureformercsr

I'm not sure that the hdcp content protection is going to matter since the device will be a place you can save recordings on for portable playback without a constant internet connection.


----------



## veryoldschool

futureformercsr said:


> I'm not sure that the hdcp content protection is going to matter since the device will be a place you can save recordings on for portable playback without a constant internet connection.


The plans for Nomad were to have both features, storing when internet access wasn't available along with streaming when it was.
Whether both features will be functioning at the release time is still in question.


----------



## jacmyoung

"futureformercsr" said:


> I'm not sure that the hdcp content protection is going to matter since the device will be a place you can save recordings on for portable playback without a constant internet connection.


HDCP protection certainly matters, but such protection usually allows a copy of the content in a reduced resolution such as in 480p.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:


> If you don't know what the actual topic is, how can you then determine some discussion made here is moot or off the topic, which you don't even know what it is?
> 
> The OP started this thread by telling us the questions DirecTV asked him clearly implied something close to what Sling is providing. Therefore whether Sling-like streaming is legal or not is certainly an on topic discussion.
> 
> It is reasonable to argue Sling, as a standalone device, might have used the analog loophole, the same cannot be said about the 922.


Actually it appears *you* are the person in this thread who continues to discuss anything but the the real topic....repeatedly going on and on about something totally irrelevant.

VOS - kudos for your intestinal fortitude.


----------



## jacmyoung

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Actually it appears you are the person in this thread who continues to discuss anything but the the real topic....repeatedly going on and on about something totally irrelevant.
> 
> VOS - kudos for your intestinal fortitude.


Why don't you tell me what the real topic is. When you said we really had no idea what this device would be able to do, I thought you had no idea what the topic really was.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:


> Why don't you tell me what the real topic is. When you said we really had no idea what this device would be able to do, I thought you had no idea what the topic really was.


Read the thread title.

No where in there is HDCP or HDMI.

As for what it will do...no one knows at this time...but we do know it'll be compliant with whatever the tech standards require. So there's no reason to assume anything different (including workarounds to copyright protection) - that's simply not an option.


----------



## DarkSkies

Seriously, after 48 pages of posts (per my forum preferences), now someone is trying to keep the thread "on topic"? The topic is broad in and of itself, so any discussion of how the Nomad device will output content is germane. It's also quite interesting watching the back-and-forth, as I can clearly see who is pulling their own hair out in frustration and who is milking it for all it's worth ... it's like a carnival side show with free admission! :lol:


----------



## jacmyoung

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Read the thread title.
> 
> No where in there is HDCP or HDMI.
> 
> As for what it will do...no one knows at this time...but we do know it'll be compliant with whatever the tech standards require. So there's no reason to assume anything different (including workarounds to copyright protection) - that's simply not an option.


No where in there is "streaming", "copying", "playback" or "watch", If your logic prevails, we can only discuss people who subscribe to DirecTV yet without permanent homes


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> HDCP protection certainly matters, but such protection usually allows a copy of the content in a reduced resolution such as in 480p.


This is one of the techniques that the NOMAD will likely use. It is mentioned as a capability in the Morega reference design. As it is, DIRECTV (and DISH Network) receivers take the low road and simply shunt the analog outputs when presented with HDCP protected content.

What it takes to satisfy HDCP without blanking is not widely known, but it would appear to be defined and suffice it to say that the NOMAD should be able to do what is necessary to produce place shifted or downloadable content.


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> No where in there is "streaming", "copying", "playback" or "watch",


These are all assumed given the expected capabilities of the NOMAD. I cited HDCP as a reference for what would necessarily need to be crapped down and by how much, not as something that the NOMAD needed to implement (especially since nobody expects it to feature an HDCP capable input).

I think it likely that anything that DIRECTV can't let you copy/move will be halted by the receiver software.


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> These are all assumed given the expected capabilities of the NOMAD. I cited HDCP as a reference for what would necessarily need to be crapped down and by how much, not as something that the NOMAD needed to implement (especially since nobody expects it to feature an HDCP capable input).
> 
> I think it likely that anything that DIRECTV can't let you copy/move will be halted by the receiver software.


Someone who saw the device mentioned an USB port, can it not be an HDCP capable input?

If anything cannot be copied/moved would be halted, there won't be much to see, would it?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:



> No where in there is "streaming", "copying", "playback" or "watch", If your logic prevails, we can only discuss people who subscribe to DirecTV yet without permanent homes


You're right. That means its all about speculation.

All the wild discussion on copyright protection controls is just that - wild. Speculate away...but not about known facts in what must be done to migrate content legally in the electronics world. That part is already locked into any device sold in America.

I suspect folks are more interested in what NOMAD might bring (such as the very first post in this thread), in contrast to any philosophical or theoretical copyright protection back-and-forth.

As for a USB "siting" report...interesting.

At least that is a _real_ topic for speculation and fun guesswork.


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> Someone who saw the device mentioned an USB port, can it not be an HDCP capable input?


Absolutely not. HDCP is only implemented in the US consumer market for DVI and HDMI as a method for video source equipment to communicate with an attached display.

DMCA is the rules and HDCP is one way to implement those rules. HDMI explicitly incorporates HDCP by reference.

Wikipedia is your friend. This thread is where you might come to discuss how digital content protection impacts the DIRECTV NOMAD (as opposed to the DISH ViP922) once you have a basic understanding of what is going on.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect folks are more interested in what NOMAD might bring (such as the very first post in this thread), in contrast to any philosophical or theoretical copyright protection back-and-forth.


I think you would agree that digital copy protection is a primary concern when it comes to the overall utility of a device like the NOMAD whether your interests lie with streaming or downloading.


> As for a USB "siting" report...interesting.


I don't think there was every any question about the inclusion of a USB port and what it would be used for.

Unless DIRECTV has forsaken (or otherwise changed their mind about) the UL approved Morega design, much more is known about the NOMAD than you're letting on.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> Just because it is not available does not mean it cannot be done. I am simply trying to refute the assertion that somehow the 922 can do it because it had found an analog loophole.


Maybe I'm missing something here, but does it really matter if the sling capabilities are inside (922) or outside the box? I mean it's still the same thing and sling does the analog conversion. I'm almost certain that there is no digital to digital transcoding with the sling technology in the ViP922. It's Digital to Analog to Digital just like all Sling devices. :scratchin


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but does it really matter if the sling capabilities are inside (922) or outside the box? I mean it's still the same thing and sling does the analog conversion. I'm almost certain that there is no digital to digital transcoding with the sling technology in the ViP922. It's Digital to Analog to Digital just like all Sling devices. :scratchin


I don't think it's going to matter how many times/people will say this or the fact that doing it this way is the most reasonable method as it uses their current technology and doesn't have any legal issues to deal with, as the questioning poster simply will continue to throw random crap out there to see if any of it will stick to anything. :nono:


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but does it really matter if the sling capabilities are inside (922) or outside the box? I mean it's still the same thing and sling does the analog conversion. I'm almost certain that there is no digital to digital transcoding with the sling technology in the ViP922. It's Digital to Analog to Digital just like all Sling devices. :scratchin


The difference is a standalone Sling is not an HDCP certified device, therefore it does not have to comply to it, but the 922 is an HDCP certified device therefore if it also tries some loophole to break the HDCP protection, it would not have been certified, which led me to discredit the assertion that somehow there is a loophole the 922 is using.


----------



## RobertE

Doug Brott said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but does it really matter if the sling capabilities are inside (922) or outside the box? I mean it's still the same thing and sling does the analog conversion. I'm almost certain that there is no digital to digital transcoding with the sling technology in the ViP922. It's Digital to Analog to Digital just like all Sling devices. :scratchin


Maybe I'm lost, but I thought this thread was about the DirecTv Nomad. Not sling, not the dish 922 or any of their other receivers, or Tivo.

All the puffery needs to go somewhere else.


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> Absolutely not. HDCP is only implemented in the US consumer market for DVI and HDMI as a method for video source equipment to communicate with an attached display.
> 
> DMCA is the rules and HDCP is one way to implement those rules. HDMI explicitly incorporates HDCP by reference.


We know the USB port can be used to record content off the DVR, but if it is played back through this device without down rez it would break the HDCP protection would it not?

On the other hand, HDCP does allow copy once does it not? So if the device is used as a DVR itself, or is only hooked up to a non DVR to pull content off, it does not break copy once rule.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> the 922 is an HDCP certified device therefore if it also tries some loophole to break the HDCP protection, it would not have been certified, which led me to discredit the assertion that somehow there is a loophole the 922 is using.


You're having a really hard time understanding what's going on here, and I realize I'm probably just wasting my time, but I'm going to take a stab at it. As soon as you're dealing with an analog signal, which is how the Sling portion of the 922 is connected, HDCP is no longer relevant. Period. The HDCP protection isn't being broken, because it simply does not exist in the analog realm. You can't break something that isn't there.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> We know the USB port can be used to record content off the DVR


We do? When has this ever been done?


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> We do? When has this ever been done?


I am almost afraid to mention that word, Dish?


----------



## loveshockey

jacmyoung said:


> I am almost afraid to mention that word, Dish?


Aren't we talking about DirecTV here?


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> I am almost afraid to mention that word, Dish?





loveshockey said:


> Aren't we talking about DirecTV here?


My point exactly.


----------



## jacmyoung

"loveshockey" said:


> Aren't we talking about DirecTV here?


He asked for evidence of recording or copying using usb port, I am telling him anyone whose is even slightly aware would have known Dish has been doing so for years.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> You're having a really hard time understanding what's going on here, and I realize I'm probably just wasting my time, but I'm going to take a stab at it. As soon as you're dealing with an analog signal, which is how the Sling portion of the 922 is connected, HDCP is no longer relevant. Period. The HDCP protection isn't being broken, because it simply does not exist in the analog realm. You can't break something that isn't there.


HDCP standard specifically prohibits digital to analog from happening, for an HDCP certified device that is. Such is the point you are missing.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> He asked for evidence of recording or copying using usb port


No I didn't. I asked for evidence of recording or copying using the USB port of *the DVR* meaning an HR2x. Not *any* DVR.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> HDCP standard specifically prohibits digital to analog from happening


Is that so? So what are the analog outputs on HDCP-certified devices for? Looks?  You are freaking ridiculous.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> Is that so? So what are the analog outputs on HDCP-certified devices for? Looks?  You are freaking ridiculous.


More "stuff" simply being thrown out there to see if it will stick.

There is no "reasoning" with this poster. :nono:


----------



## futureformercsr

veryoldschool said:


> The plans for Nomad were to have both features, storing when internet access wasn't available along with streaming when it was.
> Whether both features will be functioning at the release time is still in question.


I freely admit I don't fully understand HDCP, except that it seems to only effect content transmitted over an HDMI connection. However, my point is more that since the Nomad will be able to store programming for portable viewing through another device. I imagine it more like an external HDD that will connect to iPad, laptop, or smartphone, and not directly to a display device. In this way it's like a mobile DirecTV2PC, and in the years I've been dealing with it, I have never seen an HDCP error on playback. Therefore, I don't expect that HDCP will be an issue with the Nomad.


----------



## Jeremy W

futureformercsr said:


> I freely admit I don't fully understand HDCP, except that it seems to only effect content transmitted over an HDMI connection.


Sounds like you understand it enough.


----------



## futureformercsr

Jeremy W said:


> Sounds like you understand it enough.


Enough to be a good csr anyway.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> Is that so? So what are the analog outputs on HDCP-certified devices for? Looks?  You are freaking ridiculous.


I am talking about how the streams must be kept in the digital domain during the transmission of such protected contents, it can, but does not have to prohibit the final output in analog signals so the old displays are not rendered useless.

For the 922, we are not talking about those analog ports, rather the contents to be streamed on the home network or the internet, which remain digital. While HDCP does not touch the streaming part, that does not allow a certified DVR to break the law using some loophole.

For that reason, I argue that streaming does not break the law since it is not the same as allowing copying of HDCP protected contents.


----------



## Doug Brott

RobertE said:


> Maybe I'm lost, but I thought this thread was about the DirecTv Nomad. Not sling, not the dish 922 or any of their other receivers, or Tivo.
> 
> All the puffery needs to go somewhere else.


The NOMAD doesn't exist yet .. so everything is speculation at this point. At a minimum, the Sling and the NOMAD are related by being able to view programming remotely. I don't see any problem with including it as part of this speculation.


----------



## jacmyoung

"futureformercsr" said:


> I freely admit I don't fully understand HDCP, except that it seems to only effect content transmitted over an HDMI connection. However, my point is more that since the Nomad will be able to store programming for portable viewing through another device. I imagine it more like an external HDD that will connect to iPad, laptop, or smartphone, and not directly to a display device. In this way it's like a mobile DirecTV2PC, and in the years I've been dealing with it, I have never seen an HDCP error on playback. Therefore, I don't expect that HDCP will be an issue with the Nomad.


The devices above do not use HDMI or DVI for displaying, that does not mean they can begin making copies of the HDCP protected content.

The digital streams transmitted wirelessly still contain the copy protection codes, as one poster pointed out the files recorded on his PC could not be played back.

Yet we can stream. There is no loophole needed.

I think if Nomad is to store a copy of an HDCP protected content for later viewing, it has to be the original storing device that comply with the copy once rule.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> For the 922, we are not talking about those analog ports, rather the contents to be streamed on the home network or the internet, which remain digital.


This is where you are wrong .. you said "which remain digital" .. The Sling technology converts the signal to analog (encoding, not transcoding) then back to digital (network transmission). The fact that it enters the analog domain is why HDCP breaks down.

Besides, it's not particularly HDCP that matters, its' the DMCA .. You could use Bob's security protocol as long as it maintained the DRM properly. HDCP just happens to be the protocol used over HDMI.

As soon as you back off of your assumption that there is no analog conversion you should get the right answer.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> I think if Nomad is to store a copy of an HDCP protected content for later viewing


There is nothing out there that can store a copy of HDCP protected content. HDCP only exists on the HDMI cable between the source and the display device. There is no HDCP protection anywhere before that, including in content stored on a DVR's hard drive. Which is why HDCP is totally irrelevant to this entire discussion, and it's mystifying why you insist on bringing it up.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> This is where you are wrong .. you said "which remain digital" .. The Sling technology converts the signal to analog (encoding, not transcoding) then back to digital (network transmission). The fact that it enters the analog domain is why HDCP breaks down.
> 
> Besides, it's not particularly HDCP that matters, its' the DMCA .. You could use Bob's security protocol as long as it maintained the DRM properly. HDCP just happens to be the protocol used over HDMI.
> 
> As soon as you back off of your assumption that there is no analog conversion you should get the right answer.


I never disputed analog conversion in the 922, I only pointed out the fact that the 922, an HDCP certified device, is allowed to stream contents in digital form, refutes the notion that the 922 has found some analog loophole in the law to work around it, as you have pointed out, it is the law that the 922, a copy protection enabled device, cannot violate.

Which led to my conclusion that streaming, without enabling copying, does not violate the law. That was the original point I was making. We have many other streaming devices to prove my point, DirecTV2PC is one of those devices.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> Which led to my conclusion that streaming, without enabling copying, does not violate the law. That was the original point I was making. We have many other streaming devices to prove my point, DirecTV2PC is one of those devices.


NOMAD is "to go" as in take it with you. Exactly how do you take it with you without doing a copy of some sort? :scratchin


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> There is nothing out there that can store a copy of HDCP protected content. HDCP only exists on the HDMI cable between the source and the display device. There is no HDCP protection anywhere before that, including in content stored on a DVR's hard drive. Which is why HDCP is totally irrelevant to this entire discussion, and it's mystifying why you insist on bringing it up.


If there is never any HDCP encoding prior to reaching the HDMI port, are you then saying the HDMI port is responsible of encoding?

Regardless, the original point I made was streaming a digital content is not prohibited by law, as long as copying is not enabled, I did not even bring HDCP in the discussion, someone else did, for good reason since the only obvious copy protection method commonly known is this HDCP protection.

HDCP is just one way to comply with the law. If you don't think it is relevant, maybe you can contribute by telling us how the Nomad may make copies of protected digital content without violating the law?


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> NOMAD is "to go" as in take it with you. Exactly how do you take it with you without doing a copy of some sort? :scratchin


I was talking about live streaming part of the Nomad, if you want to talk about the taking it with you part, I had already offered my speculation as how it may do so legally, by meeting the copy once rule, to do so I speculate it has to be the original storing device, it may not copy from a show already recorded on a DVR, but it should be able to record from a live stream for later playback.


----------



## Beerstalker

If what I had read previously about the 922 is true then you should think of it this way. It pretty much is the exact same thing as a 722 with the component outputs hooked up to component inputs on a HD slingbox. The difference is the component outputs - cables - and component inputs have been shrunk down and put on a circuit board inside the 922's case. It is still going through the same analog ouput to analog input transfer, and then the sling portion inside the box digitizes it and sends it out over the internet.

If the box didn't go through that digital - analog - digital transfer then what they are doing would be against the DMCA.

The only thing they look at to get HDCP certified is the HDMI ouput of the box. As long as there HDMI circuit requires a HDCP handshake from the monitor or anything else down that path it passes the test and get's certified.



jacmyoung said:


> I was talking about live streaming part of the Nomad, if you want to talk about the taking it with you part, I had already offered my speculation as how it may do so legally, by meeting the copy once rule, to do so I speculate it has to be the original storing device, it may not copy from a show already recorded on a DVR, but it should be able to record from a live stream for later playback.


We have no idea if the Nomad will allow streaming over the internet at all. I tend to think that it will not. A lot of DirecTVs customers are rural customers with no internet service at all, or internet service that would not work well for streaming (like my HughesNet service).

I think NOMAD will be able to take a recording from your DVR and ouput it as a MPEG4 file with some proprietary copy protection imbedded into the file. The only way to play that file will be with a video player app on your device that DirecTV designs and allows there customers to access. Most likely requiring you to log in with your DirecTV.com account name and password in order to verify the file was made with a DVR on your account. That way they can help keep people from inviting all there friends over for free portable copies of movies/TV shows on all their iPads etc.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> If there is never any HDCP encoding prior to reaching the HDMI port, are you then saying the HDMI port is responsible of encoding?


The HDMI chipset is where HDCP begins and ends. Beyond that point, HDCP does not exist.


----------



## jacmyoung

The difference between a standalone Sling and the 922 with Sling built in is, the former obtains an analog source to begin with, therefore the device is not covered by the new copy protection law in terms of copy protection of digital content.

The latter receives copy protected digital content, whatever it does internally, if in the end it allows the end users to make additional copies of such copy protected content, IMO the use of the device would be illegal.

If the only feature of Nomad is to make a copy so you can playback away from home, again Dish had done so a few years back, it did not get much traction at all. Now in this day and age when streaming is all the rage, Nomad would be even less of an attraction without streaming.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> The latter receives copy protected digital content, whatever it does internally, if in the end it allows the end users to make additional copies of such copy protected content, IMO the use of the device would be illegal.


Your opinion is as ridiculous as that jump in logic. You can't just brush off "whatever it does internally" because that's the key to this whole thing. If the signal being streamed is obtained via an analog output, which in this case it is, the DMCA is out the window.

I don't know why I'm letting myself stay in this ridiculous circle. You're clearly not listening to a single word anyone is saying, instead choosing to just keep saying the same thing over and over without a single thing except your opinion to back it up.


----------



## RobertE

Give it up guys. All the highly paid attorneys that the MPAA, etc., employ apparently know less about it than jacmyoung.


----------



## DogLover

"jacmyoung" said:


> The difference between a standalone Sling and the 922 with Sling built in is, the former obtains an analog source to begin with, therefore the device is not covered by the new copy protection law in terms of copy protection of digital content.
> 
> The latter receives copy protected digital content, whatever it does internally, if in the end it allows the end users to make additional copies of such copy protected content, IMO the use of the device would be illegal.
> 
> If the only feature of Nomad is to make a copy so you can playback away from home, again Dish had done so a few years back, it did not get much traction at all. Now in this day and age when streaming is all the rage, Nomad would be even less of an attraction without streaming.


I think what you you may be missing here, is that once it is converted to analog, it is no longer a "copy". Even if is later reconverted to digital, it is no longer a duplicate of the digital file. I think that's why the 922 does not run afoul of the law. It may be file that can be displayed on a TV to look like the original, but if is not an exact copy, it's not an exact copy.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## jacmyoung

You are correct in that I have a hard time believing that the law can easily be circumvented by simple conversions within a device, if so it is a useless law.

As far as the HDCP issue, the poster initially brought it up when he said he could not playback the files he captured from his DVR then stored onto the hard drive of his laptop. He said that was proof of HDCP protection.

He was wrong, so was I wrong for accepting it. But he did demonstrate some protection at work. Again DirecTV2PC does streaming of copy protected digital content just fine, it does not need analog conversion loophole to stream. Likewise a Sling capable device does not need such loophole to legally stream copy protected digital content.

There maybe reason why it is called copy protected, not "stream protected" content.


----------



## jacmyoung

RobertE said:


> Give it up guys. All the highly paid attorneys that the MPAA, etc., employ apparently know less about it than jacmyoung.


From an end user standpoint, a digital-analog-digital conversion will pretty much retain the high quality of the digital content that any quality degradation would be insignificant to the end user.

The law however was in a large part the content owners' demand to not allow copying of high quality digital contents. If after all the resources spent in lobbying such law, it still allowed copying of the high quality digital content, albeit through some low cost analog conversion, then indeed those highly paid attorneys at the MPAA were idiots.

Regardless, all the expert opinions displayed, no one is able to dispute that DirecTV2PC does the streaming of the original copy protected digital content, without the need of going through some loophole.

Does the law even address streaming at all? If I recall correctly, at the time the law was framed, streaming was not even on the radar screen.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Again DirecTV2PC does streaming of copy protected digital content just fine, it does not need analog conversion loophole to stream.


You're wrong, once again. In order for DirecTV2PC to maintain the digital chain through to the display, the link between the video card and the display must support HDCP. If there is a digital connection that does not support HDCP, DirecTV2PC will not allow playback. If there is an analog (VGA) connection, which by design does not support copy protection, DirecTV2PC will allow playback because it is no longer digital at that point. Which means it's utilizing the analog loophole.

Basically, you just shot down your own argument and proved the rest of us right. Ready to give up yet?


----------



## jacmyoung

Jeremy W said:


> You're wrong, once again. In order for DirecTV2PC to maintain the digital chain through to the display, the link between the video card and the display must support HDCP.


Hold there now, you just managed to convince me HDCP is only relevant to HDMI, now you are saying it has to do with a video card in a laptop, in which an HDMI is no where to be found? I start to question your expert opinions now

On the other hand, if I understand you correctly, as long as the link between the video card and the display supports copy protection, streaming unaltered digital content, like what the DirecTV2PC does, would be legal? It would be perfectly legal for me to stream from my DirecTV HDDVR, in a hotel room, using DirecTV2PC (if it lets me do so), as long as the link between the video card and the display in my laptop supports copy protection?

If so aren't you basically agreeing with me that streaming can be legally done without going through some analog loophole?


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Hold there now, you just managed to convince me HDCP is only relevant to HDMI, now you are saying it has to do with a video card in a laptop, in which an HDMI is no where to be found? I start to question your expert opinions now


I was speaking only in the context of the DVR. Laptop displays connected via FPD-Link still support HDCP, as do desktop displays connected via DVI or DisplayPort.


jacmyoung said:


> On the other hand, if I understand you correctly, as long as the link between the video card and the display supports copy protection, streaming unaltered digital content, like what the DirecTV2PC does, would be legal?


Correct.


jacmyoung said:


> It would be perfectly legal for me to stream from my DirecTV HDDVR, in a hotel room, using DirecTV2PC (if it lets me do so), as long as the link between the video card and the display in my laptop supports copy protection?


Correct. It would also be legal if you had an analog display that didn't support copy protection at all. It's impractical due to Internet bandwidth, but it's legal.


jacmyoung said:


> If so aren't you basically agreeing with me that streaming can be legally done without going through some analog loophole?


It's very important to understand that Slingbox and DirecTV2PC are two different types of streaming, precisely because of the analog loophole. Slingbox streams are not copy protected, because they originate from an analog signal. DirecTV2PC streams must be copy protected as long as they remain in digital form, because they are the original digital broadcast.

The digital broadcast must be copy protected as long as the digital chain is intact. As soon as that chain is broken, *even if the next step involves conversion back to a digital form*, copy protection is no longer necessary. End of story. Period. Done.


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## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> If so aren't you basically agreeing with me that streaming can be legally done without going through some analog loophole?


How many times must we go in circles? Why act like you don't know what you're talking about if you do?

Streaming has pretty much nothing to do with HDCP .. Getting from device to monitor is the issue for HDCP. In the end you've simply come to a conclusion that isn't really relevant to your starting point.

You started with ...



jacmyoung said:


> How come no one was suing Dish Network? They have been streaming with Sling for years.


and ended with ...



jacmyoung said:


> If so aren't you basically agreeing with me that streaming can be legally done without going through some analog loophole?


Sling uses the analog loophole 100% of the time .. DIRECTV2PC uses it when available and enforces the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and Digital Rights Management when all components are digital. So no one is suing DISH because they are not violating the law. Also no one is suing DIRECTV because DIRECTV is not violating the law. I'm pretty sure no one here even suggested that DIRECTV was violating the law with DIRECTV2PC (remote or local). The problem with DIRECTV2PC over remote is that the bit rate is too large for virtually all networks.

Also, if you try to remote desktop in to your PC from a remote location to use DIRECTV2PC remotely, the DRM is violated and (guess what), it won't play because of the HDCP preventing it from working. :shrug:


----------



## veryoldschool

I can't believe I'm getting suckered back into this.



> the poster initially brought it up when he said he could not playback the files he captured from his DVR then stored onto the hard drive of his laptop.


The post was about a cable DVR and using firewire, which is digital, but not HDMI.



> Hold there now, you just managed to convince me HDCP is only relevant to HDMI, now you are saying it has to do with a video card in a laptop, in which an HDMI is no where to be found?


 HDMI is starting to be found on laptops and video cards, "but" DVI being more common, is still digital and so requires the monitor & video card to support HDCP for DirecTV2PC to work.


> Regardless, all the expert opinions displayed, no one is able to dispute that DirecTV2PC does the streaming of the original copy protected digital content, without the need of going through some loophole.


As with MRV, DirecTV2PC has been proven to keep the content within the protected mode, so there is no reason/need to have an analog link, unless your video card/monitor doesn't support HDCP.
Now once an internet stream can prove to the content providers that it too keeps the content within the protection mode, streaming of digital directly is being done, but currently this isn't how Sling is doing it.


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## jacmyoung

veryoldschool said:


> Now once an internet stream can prove to the content providers that it too keeps the content within the protection mode, streaming of digital directly is being done


Streaming through Internet is done all over the places, with contents as high quality as 1080p, what more proof do you need that it is legal to stream high quality digital content on the Internet? Please don't tell me all those contents are now streamed on the Internet without the owners being certain that they are within the protection mode.

If Nomad streaming DVR contents requires content owners' approval, forget about it, they are not going to approve it, at least not those high value ones. As I said, if it only does playback from a copy from the DVR, it had been tried before and failed.

What else will Nomad possibly offer?


----------



## jacmyoung

Jeremy W said:


> Laptop displays connected via FPD-Link still support HDCP...


What about iPads and Tablets? How about those smartphones? They all have some kind of video card or video chip, and a display.

Basically you are saying HDCP can apply to all display devices, whether it is a TV set with an HDMI , or anything else that can display digital content, even without an HDMI?


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## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> What about iPads and Tablets? How about those smartphones? They all have some kind of video card or video chip, and a display.
> 
> Basically you are saying HDCP can apply to all display devices, whether it is a TV set with an HDMI , or anything else that can display digital content, even without an HDMI?


Don't think of it as EVERYTHING has to be HDCP. HDCP is one way to support the DMCA and DRM. It's not the only way.


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## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> If the signal being streamed is obtained via an analog output, which in this case it is, the DMCA is out the window.


I think you're making an assumption that may not be true with respect to how the signal gets to the Sling processor. The Sling adapter that brings Slingbox functionality to other of the ViP receivers is connected via USB. Unless you believe that the ViP722 can render an analog signal through its USB port, something else is going on.

The Morega reference design also takes digital audio/video streams as input. If they are playing the analog hole, it is happening inside the device and not in the receiver proper. My guess is that their doing damage in the digital domain rather than analog rendering and digitizing that would surely be prohibitively expensive.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Don't think of it as EVERYTHING has to be HDCP. HDCP is one way to support the DMCA and DRM. It's not the only way.


But the burden of proof of an display device supporting some kind of copy protection, will be entirely on the manufacture of such device, is it not? I just don't understand why veryoldschool said DirecTV has to prove to the content owners it is in the protection mode, before Nomad can be allowed to stream.


----------



## jacmyoung

harsh said:


> I think you're making an assumption that may not be true with respect to how the signal gets to the Sling processor. The Sling adapter that brings Slingbox functionality to other of the ViP receivers is connected via USB. Unless you believe that the ViP722 can render an analog signal through its USB port, something else is going on.
> 
> The Morega reference design also takes digital audio/video streams as input. If they are playing the analog hole, it is happening inside the device and not in the receiver proper. My guess is that their doing damage in the digital domain rather than analog rendering and digitizing that would surely be prohibitively expensive.


What is this Morega reference design? I can't find it, a link if you have it. Are you saying Sling uses such reference design?

You seem to suggest at least with some Sling devices there is no analog conversion, yet they stream digital media over the Internet. Is it in your view that such method violates DMCA?

But then again, as noted above, it is the responsibility of the device manufactures to ensure their display devices support some kind of copy protection, if so, the carriers who decide to make content available on the Internet, cannot violate DMCA. There is nothing to violate.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> I think you're making an assumption that may not be true with respect to how the signal gets to the Sling processor. The Sling adapter that brings Slingbox functionality to other of the ViP receivers is connected via USB. Unless you believe that the ViP722 can render an analog signal through its USB port, something else is going on.


I had always assumed that the Sling was getting the signal digitally. It was repeated so many times in this thread that it uses analog, so I simply went along with it. But if the external one is using USB, it's clearly digital, so there's something else at play here. I would guess it's the fact that Sling re-encodes, instead of doing a 1:1 stream.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> I would guess it's the fact that Sling re-encodes, instead of doing a 1:1 stream.


Would that create some kind of loophole?


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Would that create some kind of loophole?


I'm not sure. But as an example, back in the day when songs on iTunes had DRM, the loophole to remove the DRM was to burn the files to an audio CD, and then rip them back onto your computer. So although they remained digital the entire time, there was a re-encoding step. I don't know if that applies in this case or not, but that's where my thinking comes from.


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> What is this Morega reference design? I can't find it, a link if you have it. Are you saying Sling uses such reference design?


I'm guessing you didn't look. Morega appears in this thread at least two dozen times and more site-wide. There is a link to the website at least twice in this thread.

As I said earlier, you need to take advantage of the available resources rather than flailing away trying to noodle it out publicly.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> It was repeated so many times in this thread that it uses analog, so I simply went along with it.


This seems to happen a lot in forum threads. Don't believe everything you infer; the truth is out there.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/tveverywhere/slingadapter/


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## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> I'm not sure. But as an example, back in the day when songs on iTunes had DRM, the loophole to remove the DRM was to burn the files to an audio CD, and then rip them back onto your computer. So although they remained digital the eontire time, there was a re-encoding step. I don't know if that applies in this case or not, but that's where my thinking comes from.


I hope you are not suggesting that in this case a similar "ripping" process is taken place, and as a result again the process has created a legal loophole to get around the law. If so again the law would have been useless.

Now if there is some DRM or its equivalent embedded in the original digital signal, and if such encryption is restored before the processed signal is sent out to the display device, the process would not have violated the law, would it?


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> I'm guessing you didn't look. Morega appears in this thread at least two dozen times and more site-wide. There is a link to the website at least twice in this thread.
> 
> As I said earlier, you need to take advantage of the available resources rather than flailing away trying to noodle it out publicly.


Is it so difficult to repost that link?


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> I hope you are not suggesting that in this case a similar "ripping" process is taken place, and as a result again the process has created a legal loophole to get around the law.


What is your issue with loopholes? You act as if a loophole is always some barely legal shady process that could be shut down at any time. At least in this case, the loophole is deliberate. There is nothing wrong with using it.


jacmyoung said:


> Now if there is some DRM or its equivalent embedded in the original digital signal, and if such encryption is restored before the processed signal is sent out to the display device, the process would not have violated the law, would it?


That's how the DVR works internally, so no it would not violate the law.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> What is your issue with loopholes? You act as if a loophole is always some barely legal shady process that could be shut down at any time. At least in this case, the loophole is deliberate. There is nothing wrong with using it.


While I tend to doubt jacmyoung would bother to get informed on this, here are links:
First it the "analog" version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

Having been "burned" before the next round was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

In this case "they" seemed to have stayed away from anything that would have been linked to their first loss.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> What is your issue with loopholes? You act as if a loophole is always some barely legal shady process that could be shut down at any time. At least in this case, the loophole is deliberate. There is nothing wrong with using it.


I have no problem with loopholes themselves, my problem is if the law creates so many loopholes to the point that anyone can easily circumvent the intent of the law, then the law is useless, because I for one refuse to believe the law is a useless law, I tend to think some of the so called loopholes, aren't really there.



> That's how the DVR works internally, so no it would not violate the law.


Follow up from the above, if a copy protected digital stream comes into a device, regardless what the device does to it, as long as the out going digital signal still retains the same level of copy protection, the law is not violated.

As such streaming is legal, as long as the level of copy protection is intact. Do you agree?


----------



## jacmyoung

Thank you for the link. I tried to read through the summaries, I did not find anything even close to some kind of analog loophole described in this thread. There is a section that describes an "analog hole", which basically says:



> Analog hole
> 
> All forms of DRM for audio and visual material (excluding interactive materials, e.g. videogames) are subject to the analog hole, namely that in order for a viewer to play the material, the digital signal must be turned into an analog signal containing light and/or sound for the viewer, and so available to be copied as no DRM is capable of controlling content in this form. In other words, a user could play a purchased audio file while using a separate program to record the sound back into the computer into a DRM-free file format&#8230;
> 
> All DRM to date can therefore be bypassed by recording this signal and digitally storing and distributing it in a non DRM limited form, by anyone who has the technical means of recording the analog stream. However the conversion from digital to analog and back is likely to force a loss of quality, particularly when using lossy digital formats. HDCP is an attempt to restrict the analog hole, although it is largely ineffective.


As evident above, the so called "analog hole" has nothing to do with the "analog loophole" so strongly implied in this thread. In fact *HDCP is an attempt to restrict such analog hole*. If this analog hole is the so called "analog loophole", which means the law does not restrict it, then there cannot be HDCP in existence to legally restrict it.



> The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). *It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.* It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself. In addition, the DMCA heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet.


I have highlighted the DRM part above to be what I think is relevant to our discussion. As far as what DRM is:



> Digital rights management (DRM) is a term for access control technologies that are used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to limit the use of digital content and devices. The term is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content that is not desired or intended by the content provider&#8230;DRM technologies attempt to control use of digital media by preventing access, copying or conversion to other formats *by end users*.


It appears that the intent of DRM is to control how the end users may have access to the digital content, not a manufacture. As long as a Sling device is not a "production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works (in digital form I should add since they specifically relate to DRM)", it is fine, otherwise it is not fine, regardless how it is done.

Since DMCA and DRM cover all digital contents over the Internet, they should also cover the digital streams transmitted by a Sling device over the Internet. There is no where that I can find in the law that says if such content at one point was turned into an analog form for processing, DMCA suddenly no longer covers such digital content over the Internet anymore. For a Sling device not to violate the law, it is not that it just needs to do some analog conversion, rather that the final digital contents Sling sends out on the Internet, still have the same levels of DRM control specified by the content owners.

The "analog hole" simply states the fact that the DRM technologies is not capable, therefore DMCA cannot prevent the circumvention of DRM, when an end user uses some method to record the analog output of a digital content, re-digitize it without any DRM reinserted. It always refers to an end user, not a manufacture.


----------



## veryoldschool

So now that someone has done what you should have some time back and googled, you have a basic concept of what's in play here.
I suggest reading through the DMCA page under "Notable court cases".

You will see this is still ongoing.

Now as to a manufacture's position.
Unless they have very deep pockets to fight, as Sony did back in the first link, NONE will want to waste their capital fighting the legal challenges.
Especially someone like DirecTV, who more than likely would have the content providers withhold their content while the case is being decided.
Dish in recent history may have played a bit fast & loose [as in the TiVo suit], but "the smart money" simply doesn't.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> So now that someone has done what you should have some time back and googled, you have a basic concept of what's in play here.
> I suggest reading through the DMCA page under "Notable court cases".
> 
> You will see this is still ongoing.
> 
> Now as to a manufacture's position.
> Unless they have very deep pockets to fight, as Sony did back in the first link, NONE will want to waste their capital fighting the legal challenges.
> Especially someone like DirecTV, who more than likely would have the content providers withhold their content while the case is being decided.
> Dish in recent history may have played a bit fast & loose [as in the TiVo suit], but "the smart money" simply doesn't.


I actually did read through those cases, no where did I read anything about analog conversion, analog loophole, or anything close to that.

Without a case where the court had held that analog conversion was a safe harbor to avoid violation of DMCA, I could only read the law itself to see what were those safe harbor provisions, again I could not find anything that provided some kind of safe harbor due to analog conversion.

BTW, the Sony Betamax case had nothing to do with this thread, it was limited to the Beta and VHS VCRs and those VCRs only.

You are more than welcome to quote me where in the law, or in a court case, it is said analog conversion is a valid step to provide safe harbor for anyone to circumvent copy protection of digital contents, except of course if you are an end user, did so for your own use. But if you ever try to post it online and the content owner see it, be prepared for some actions.


----------



## Beerstalker

jacmyoung said:


> I actually did read through those cases, no where did I read anything about analog conversion, analog loophole, or anything close to that.
> 
> Without a case where the court had held that analog conversion was a safe harbor to avoid violation of DMCA, I could only read the law itself to see what were those safe harbor provisions, again I could not find anything that provided some kind of safe harbor due to analog conversion.
> 
> You are more than welcome to quote me where in the law, or in a court case, it is said analog conversion is a valid step to provide safe harbor for anyone to circumvent copy protection of digital contents.


Umm, you posted it yourself in your last post.....



jacmyoung said:


> All DRM to date can therefore be bypassed by recording this signal and digitally storing and distributing it in a non DRM limited form, by anyone who has the technical means of recording the analog stream. However the conversion from digital to analog and back is likely to force a loss of quality, particularly when using lossy digital formats. HDCP is an attempt to restrict the analog hole, although it is largely ineffective.


By taking the analog output and recording it back to a digital form without DRM. They haven't got rid of the analog outputs (yet) so they can't stop people from doing this.

However in the near future you will see that they are going to start getting rid of analog ouputs on devices (new Blu-Ray models manufactured this year no longer have them) or using the image constraint token to cause all analog sources to be donwconverted before they are sent out. This is to help prevent people from being able to record high quality analog sources, which is still legal.

What they have decided is illegal is allowing direct digital copy of the file (copy a video file from one hard drive to another) if it is copy protected. They have also said it is illegal to make any device or program that purposely strips the copy protection from the digital file and leaves a direct copy of the digital file without the DRM.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> Umm, you posted it yourself in your last post.....


Care to enlighten me?


----------



## Beerstalker

did you read my whole post?

How is this:

It is legal to make an analog copy of non-protected material.

It is legal to make a digital copy of non-protected material.

It is illegal to break copy protection (unless you can qualify it under fair use, but we won't get into that here as it doesn't really count in this instance).

It is illegal to make a device or program to break copy protection.

It is illegal to copy a file that has copy protection set to not allow copies (or try to make more than one copy of a file that only allows one copy).


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> did you read my whole post?


I tried, but I was not smart enough to understand what you were saying in ".....".


----------



## Beerstalker

Did you not see my edit? The quote from you and the other 3 paragraphs?


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> Did you not see my edit? The quote from you and the other 3 paragraphs?


Now I see it, if you had read my whole post, you would have known that the first two "legal" items (I would remove the "non" from them too) only apply to an end user, which are clearly superseded by the 4th item, which happens to be "illegal".

The 4th item does not make any exceptions, nor do any of the safe harbor provisions in DMCA apply to our discussion, not even close.

No one is talking about non protected digital content BTW.

The 922, applying your item# 4, would have been illegal. Yet if the digital content coming out of the 922 has DRM reencoded, item#4 no longer applies to this 922 device.


----------



## lokar

Beerstalker said:


> However in the near future you will see that they are going to start getting rid of analog ouputs on devices (new Blu-Ray models manufactured this year no longer have them) or using the image constraint token to cause all analog sources to be donwconverted before they are sent out. This is to help prevent people from being able to record high quality analog sources, which is still legal.


They are going to hear from a lot of angry people like me who have component only HDTVs if they do this.


----------



## Laxguy

lokar said:


> They are going to hear from a lot of angry people like me who have component only HDTVs if they do this.


Who are "they"?

Congress, which passed the laws? The content producers who asked for them? The manufacturers who are following market demands? (And possibly legislated specs removing analog output) Distributors such as DirecTV that has little to no choice in the matter? Or just complaining on DBS talk?


----------



## veryoldschool

Beerstalker said:


> Did you not see my edit? The quote from you and the other 3 paragraphs?


And the circle [of BS] continues.
There doesn't ever seem to be an end to this for one poster.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> And the circle [of BS] continues.
> There doesn't ever seem to be an end to this for one poster.


I have responded to his post, I am waiting if he has any comments.

Now I did ask you if you could find anything in DMCA, which you linked for me, to support your point, because I found a lot of things in it to prove my points. But then I just realized at this moment you never had any point related to the topics lately.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> I have responded to his post, I am waiting if he has any comments.
> 
> Now I did ask you if you could find anything in DMCA, which you linked for me, to support your point, because I found a lot of things in it to prove my points. But then I just realized at this moment you never had any point related to the topics lately.


One could definitely argue that DMCA, HDCP and DRM are tangent to the actual topic.


----------



## LameLefty

This whole topic has turned into the worst example of threadjacking BS I've seen in a very long time.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> One could definitely argue that DMCA, HDCP and DRM are tangent to the actual topic.


Some people here consider the discussion of DMCA, HDCP and DRM BS, unrelated to NOMAD, at the same time they argue copy protection will make or break NOMAD.


----------



## Doug Brott

Let's just put it this way .. If streaming were a problem, DIRECTV won't do it. While they like their customers, they like their content providers too. It has to work both ways. Mike White stated (I believe in the CNBC interview) that streaming is on the roadmap. So regardless of HOW it is done it should happen.

Also, DIRECTV has a vested interest in making sure said content is locked down to eligible subscribers. Look at the recent HBOGO and MAXGO products. It requires authentication to access it. Do you really think DIRECTV's in-house version of this is going to be a drastically different model? The bottom line is that if it's illegal, it won't be done, but if DIRECTV can remotely enable/disable 20 million customers via satellite I've gotta believe they can come up with a way to remotely enable/disable a smaller number of customers via the Internet.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> But then I just realized at this moment you never had any point related to the topics lately.


You're right. I merely started out to help you understand the analog aspect that others had mentioned, but it's clear it was a total waste as you've got some other direction you want to take this thread.


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just put it this way .. The bottom line is...


There isn't one here for one poster who merely wants to kick this can around continuously.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> BTW, the Sony Betamax case had nothing to do with this thread, it was limited to the Beta and VHS VCRs and those VCRs only.


While I can see in your mind, many things have nothing to do with anything else, if one were to look at a DirecTV receiver and the BetaMax case that allows video taping of content, then it has everything to do with the analog outputs. as it is legal to connect a VCR to the HD receiver. While VCRs have become old tech, DVD recorders connected with the same analog connection may be used the same way.


----------



## jacmyoung

veryoldschool said:


> While I can see in your mind, many things have nothing to do with anything else, if one were to look at a DirecTV receiver and the BetaMax case that allows video taping of content, then it has everything to do with the analog outputs. as it is legal to connect a VCR to the HD receiver. While VCRs have become old tech, DVD recorders connected with the same analog connection may be used the same way.


Sony Betamax case was very specific about covering only the analog VCRs. But I never tried to argue that the standalone Sling box may or may not take analog source from another receiver, rather talk about "the 922 device". In addition it has been pointed out already the Sling adaptor connects to the USB port of Dish DVR, no analog conversion is taking place.

The DMCA is very clear, no device may break copy protection of a digital content. DMCA is a subsequent law, Sony Betamax was a previous case law, when in conflict (which there is none), new law trumps the old.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Also, DIRECTV has a vested interest in making sure said content is locked down to eligible subscribers.


That is one part of it, the other part is even if the user is an eligible subscriber, he may not make copies of the streamed contents if the contents are copy protected.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> Sony Betamax case was very specific about covering only the analog VCRs. But I never tried to argue that the standalone Sling box may or may not take analog source from another receiver, rather talk about "the 922 device". In addition it has been pointed out already the Sling adaptor connects to the USB port of Dish DVR, no analog conversion is taking place.
> 
> The DMCA is very clear, no device may break copy protection of a digital content. DMCA is a subsequent law, Sony Betamax was a previous case law, when in conflict (which there is none), new law trumps the old.


"Talking about" a Dish product in a DirecTV forum seems kind of foolish. As I've posted before, you'll get more information about it on a dish forum.

The DMCA is clear about copyrighted material. Now since it's fairly hard to put copyright protection on the analog outputs [to my knowledge only Macrovision was ever used, which is easy to remove], the current options seem to be either there is none, or the outputs are deactivated.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> "Talking about" a Dish product in a DirecTV forum seems kind of foolish. As I've posted before, you'll get more information about it on a dish forum.
> 
> The DMCA is clear about copyrighted material. Now since it's fairly hard to put copyright protection on the analog outputs [to my knowledge only Macrovision was ever used, which is easy to remove], the current options seem to be either there is none, or the outputs are deactivated.


Or the analog output can be down rezzed.

Follow up on the other point Doug made, DirecTV historically took a more conservative approach, if there is any potential issue they might skip streaming or copying. DISH on the other hand always likes to push the envelope.

Oops, sorry I mentioned it again.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> That is one part of it, the other part is even if the user is an eligible subscriber, he may not make copies of the streamed contents if the contents are copy protected.


That's certainly not possible with DIRECTV2PC .. It will only work with the actual DIRECTV2PC application. Try using a generic DLNA client and while I know some people were able to see the playlists at one point, no one could play the content with something other than the DIRECTV2PC application.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> DISH on the other hand always likes to push the envelope.


As I posted earlier, "fast & loose".
It's not that mentioning dish is an issue.
It's that we don't have their service/hardware to really be familiar with it, so it would be like a dish sub giving information on DirecTV, and I wouldn't want to be _harsh_, but they'd be clueless.

Do you go to a Ford dealer to get information about a Volkswagen?


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> Do you go to a Ford dealer to get information about a Volkswagen?


If they share the same technologies exclusively between the two and VW declined to provide such information, why not? Do you even have a choice but go to Ford?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> If they share the same technologies exclusively between the two and VW declined to provide such information, why not? Do you even have a choice but go to Ford?


You do have a choice, and in your case it's ask Dish subs, instead of DirecTV subs.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> That's certainly not possible with DIRECTV2PC .. It will only work with the actual DIRECTV2PC application. Try using a generic DLNA client and while I know some people were able to see the playlists at one point, no one could play the content with something other than the DIRECTV2PC application.


My apps on my phone can easily see the playlists down to show titles on my DVRs, just not able to play them. Even if I am able to easily make a program to decode the streams and capture the shows on my phone with copy protection removed, DirecTV is in the clear. The law only requires reasonable effort to maintain copy protection.

But it does not allow the circumvention of DRM copy protection method, period, therefore if Sling, in concert with another device, circumvented DRM protection that resulted in the digital contents provided on the Internet without the copy protection intended by the copy owners, the combination of them meets the definition of circumvention of DRM. The law does not provide any safe harbor such as some analog form existed in between, other than for some reverse engineering, research or artistic rendering purpose without the goal of redistribution. At least that is how I read the law. The question is then who is liable if and when DRM is circumvented.

If veryoldschool reads the same law differently, he is more than welcome to tell us how he interprets the law.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> You do have a choice, and in your case it's ask Dish subs, instead of DirecTV subs.


But there is no requirement I must pick only certain one of several available choices. Otherwise you would have not allowed me to choose therefore I do not have a choice. Since you recognize I have a choice, let me make it.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> My apps on my phone can easily see the playlists down to show titles on my DVRs, just not able to play them. Even if I am able to easily make a program to decode the streams and capture the shows on my phone with copy protection removed, DirecTV is in the clear. The law only requires reasonable effort to maintain copy protection.
> 
> But it does not allow the circumvention of DRM copy protection method, period, therefore if Sling, in concert with another device, circumvented DRM protection that resulted in the digital contents provided on the Internet without the copy protection intended by the copy owners, the combination of them meets the definition of circumvention of DRM. The law does not provide any safe harbor such as some analog form existed in between, other than for some reverse engineering, research or artistic rendering purpose without the goal of redistribution. At least that is how I read the law. The question is then who is liable if and when DRM is circumvented.
> 
> If veryoldschool reads the same law differently, he is more than welcome to tell us how he interprets the law.


If there is no copyright protection applied to analog outputs, there is no circumvention of the DRM. Right?
Analog has proven to be near impossible to add copyright protection to.
Should someone ever come up with a method that works well, then "the whole game" may change.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacmyoung said:


> But there is no requirement I must pick only certain one of several available choices. Otherwise you would have not allowed me to choose therefore I do not have a choice. Since you recognize I have a choice, let me make it.


Asking DirecTV subs about Dish hardware hasn't given you the answers you want, so why do you persist this futile quest? :nono:

And to this end, since this thread isn't ever ending, it's moved to my ignore list.


----------



## LameLefty

veryoldschool said:


> Asking DirecTV subs about Dish hardware hasn't given you the answers you want, so why do you persist this futile quest? :nono:
> 
> And to this end, since this thread isn't ever ending, it's moved to my ignore list.


It's easier to move particular users to the Ignore list - I suspect I'm not alone in adding the particularly-argumentative, intentionally-dense poster in question to said list.


----------



## jacmyoung

"veryoldschool" said:


> If there is no copyright protection applied to analog outputs, there is no circumvention of the DRM. Right?
> Analog has proven to be near impossible to add copyright protection to.
> Should someone ever come up with a method that works well, then "the whole game" may change.


The circumvention is performed by the receiver that sends out the analog signal. However one must also understand if no one complains about it, nothing happens. That I think is the nature of civil justice, different than criminal justice, even though the law actually provides criminal penalty.

Now if such circumvented signal is reprocessed into digital signal then redistributed online without copy protection, the content owners can file complaint based on DMCA. Does Sling provide digital streams over the Internet without putting in some copy protection DRM? I don't know but since you don't like me asking it here, I digress.

The dispute between TWC and the networks with regard to the TWC's streaming program seems to be a contractual dispute, not related to DMCA. Since I really don't know where to go to talk about anything TWC, I hope you would allow me to mention it here.


----------



## Doug Brott

What the hell does this jumble of words mean .. I said (in very simple terms) ..

DIRECTV does the right thing with DIRECTV2PC. you cannot "easily make a program to decode the streams" because (1) it ain't easy and (2) it's illegal to do that. SO .. we WILL NOT go there. That is a violation of forum rules.



jacmyoung said:


> My apps on my phone can easily see the playlists down to show titles on my DVRs, just not able to play them. Even if I am able to easily make a program to decode the streams and capture the shows on my phone with copy protection removed, DirecTV is in the clear. The law only requires reasonable effort to maintain copy protection.
> 
> But it does not allow the circumvention of DRM copy protection method, period, therefore if Sling, in concert with another device, circumvented DRM protection that resulted in the digital contents provided on the Internet without the copy protection intended by the copy owners, the combination of them meets the definition of circumvention of DRM. The law does not provide any safe harbor such as some analog form existed in between, other than for some reverse engineering, research or artistic rendering purpose without the goal of redistribution. At least that is how I read the law. The question is then who is liable if and when DRM is circumvented.
> 
> If veryoldschool reads the same law differently, he is more than welcome to tell us how he interprets the law.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> What the hell does this jumble of words mean .. I said (in very simple terms) ..
> 
> DIRECTV does the right thing with DIRECTV2PC. you cannot "easily make a program to decode the streams" because (1) it ain't easy and (2) it's illegal to do that. SO .. we WILL NOT go there. That is a violation of forum rules.


That is because law is complicated, when people try to simplify it, they often get it wrong, such as insisting there is an analog loophole in DMCA.

However if you want it in a nutshell, what I said above means companies' liability is a lot more limited than people think. Those court cases demonstrated that it is very difficult to win cases against copy protection violation under DMCA.

However out of extreme caution DirecTV might decide not to bother, which would be most unfortunate for us, so I hope they are not too conservative with NOMAD.


----------



## DarkSkies

jacmyoung said:


> That is because law is complicated, when people try to simplify it, they often get it wrong


Tru dat! 

I'm putting my popcorn away now ... it's no longer fun.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> That is because law is complicated, when people try to simplify it, they often get it wrong, such as insisting there is an analog loophole in DMCA.
> 
> However if you want it in a nutshell, what I said above means companies' liability is a lot more limited than people think. Those court cases demonstrated that it is very difficult to win cases against copy protection violation under DMCA.
> 
> However out of extreme caution DirecTV might decide not to bother, which would be most unfortunate for us, so I hope they are not too conservative with NOMAD.


They might, but as I said, Mike White stated that streaming will be available. I believe he said by 2013 which is a ways off, but don't quote me on that as I don't have the exact reference handy.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> They might, but as I said, Mike White stated that streaming will be available. I believe he said by 2013 which is a ways off, but don't quote me on that as I don't have the exact reference handy.


I think 2013 is too long a wait, but the TWC dispute might just push it further back. I hope when DirecTV is analyzing the TWC dispute, they can come up with some remedy to avoid the same dispute. As I said the TWC dispute has to do with contractual obligations. The networks complained the TWC streaming program violated their distribution agreements, basically it constituted an unauthorized redistribution, which appears to be a valid claim.

TWC picked out 30 some channels to let subscribers stream at home. The distribution agreement likely specified how the contents may be distributed in certain defined packages, not some randomly selected channels by TWC without the networks' consent. Even though TWC still insists they did nothing wrong, the fact they quickly removed half of the channels doesn't help their argument.

I don't know what DirecTV's plan for streaming is, if there is one, but if there is, I suspect it is closer to TWC than Sling. If so to avoid the same dispute maybe to not pick and choose the channels, just stream them in the same kind of packages as they deliver them via satellites. It would be just like the Uverse or Verizon's IPTV structures (sorry for mentioning Uverse and Verizon in this thread), only that DirecTV does not have to provide the physical network, and the Nomad device, or an iPad, or any similar smart mobile device will just be another DirecTV receiver, with password for access. They may even charge a one time or monthly fee for each device, we can then all come on here to scream murder.

If Nomad is anything like Sling service, they may not have to worry about much other than that Dish might sue them


----------



## Beerstalker

lokar said:


> They are going to hear from a lot of angry people like me who have component only HDTVs if they do this.


Get ready for it, it is happening. They've already decided that all new Blu-Ray players released this year will not have High-Def component ouputs (I think they might be able to keep 480p component though). They have also said that studios will begin setting the Image Constraint Token (or ICT) on there new Blu-Ray movie/tv releases in either 2012 or 2013 (can't remember which). This ICT flag will cause all component ouputs to be donconverted to standard def. Very soon the only way to get Hi-Def video from a Blu-Ray player will be over HDMI (or DVI if it includes HDCP).

I haven't heard anything yet about the satellite or cable TV providers starting to do this, but I imagine they won't be far behind. Notice how the new H25 receiver doesn't have a true component output. I think this was done not just for space, but it will make it easier for them to stop supporting component out in the future (I can imagine them saying "sorry, the component adaper is no longer in production").


----------



## Groundhog45

The trouble with putting someone on the ignore list is that you still see all of the replies that people post to respond to them and their ramblings.

I keep hoping for more info about Nomad here but none is forthcoming. Maybe sometime soon.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> I think this was done not just for space


It was done just for space.


----------



## Laxguy

Beerstalker said:


> Get ready for it, it is happening. They've already decided that all new Blu-Ray players released this year will not have High-Def component ouputs (I think they might be able to keep 480p component though). They have also said that studios will begin setting the Image Constraint Token (or ICT) on there new Blu-Ray movie/tv releases in either 2012 or 2013 (can't remember which). This ICT flag will cause all component ouputs to be donconverted to standard def. Very soon the only way to get Hi-Def video from a Blu-Ray player will be over HDMI (or DVI if it includes HDCP).


Please: Who are "they"? Similar to the post to which you responded, it really helps to define the reference when using an indefinite pronoun.

Market forces are moving us away from component- as most will insist on HDMI in order to watch protected content, which we will see more and more of. TVs now come with multiple HDMI connections, but only one component- though, IIRC, someone complained that some mfgs. are doing away with that.

I wonder if there's any legislation that's forcing out component.


----------



## Beerstalker

Jeremy W said:


> It was done just for space.


I think it was partly done for space, but maybe not totally. They could have possibly still fit the component jacks in the current package if they wanted to, or could have made it just a tiny bit larger in order to fit them if they wanted. Also they could have used a more common AVout plug to component adapter if they wanted (like the ones a lot of camcorders used). But by making it a proprietary connector they can easily quit offering the connector, thus "removing" the component ouputs.


----------



## Beerstalker

Laxguy said:


> Please: Who are "they"? Similar to the post to which you responded, it really helps to define the reference when using an indefinite pronoun.
> 
> Market forces are moving us away from component- as most will insist on HDMI in order to watch protected content, which we will see more and more of. TVs now come with multiple HDMI connections, but only one component- though, IIRC, someone complained that some mfgs. are doing away with that.
> 
> I wonder if there's any legislation that's forcing out component.


The AACS. Check out page 105 of the AACS adopter agreement.
http://www.aacsla.com/license/AACS_Adopter_Agrmt_090619.pdf

Here's a quote from part of it.
2.2.2.1 Analog Sunset - 2010. With the exception of Existing Models,
any Licensed Player manufactured after December 31, 2010 shall
limit analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD
Interlace Modes only. Existing Models may be manufactured and
sold by Adopter up until December 31, 2011.

Looks like they can keep component but must limit it to 480i.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> They could have possibly still fit the component jacks in the current package if they wanted to


Have you ever seen the back of an H25? It would be physically impossible to fit them in there without giving up anything else. As far as making it bigger, why would they when they could just do what they did?


Beerstalker said:


> Also they could have used a more common AVout plug to component adapter if they wanted (like the ones a lot of camcorders used).


I'm not aware of any 3.5mm jack that can accomodate component video plus stereo audio.


----------



## Beerstalker

Jeremy W said:


> Have you ever seen the back of an H25? It would be physically impossible to fit them in there without giving up anything else. As far as making it bigger, why would they when they could just do what they did?
> 
> I'm not aware of any 3.5mm jack that can accomodate component video plus stereo audio.


Wouldn't need stereo audio, that's already on there as RCA jacks, not to mention the coax digital jack.

I'm not saying I'm right on this, I'm just saying it wouldn't suprise me at all if in a year or two the proprietary connector is discontinued, and no-one can get new ones anymore.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> I'm not saying I'm right on this, I'm just saying it wouldn't suprise me at all if in a year or two the proprietary connector is discontinued, and no-one can get new ones anymore.


The component output can be disabled via software. There is absolutely no reason for DirecTV to rely on the presence or absence of a simple cable to constrain the output. It's not like there is any sort of special authentication mechanism, it's a cable that could easily be produced by a third-party if the need arose.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> Wouldn't need stereo audio, that's already on there as RCA jacks, not to mention the coax digital jack.
> 
> I'm not saying I'm right on this, I'm just saying it wouldn't suprise me at all if in a year or two the proprietary connector is discontinued, and no-one can get new ones anymore.


Does this connector exist now? If so it is a device that circumvents HDCP. But if this connector only passes out 480i it should be able to be sold just fine.

On the other point I agree, analog ports will go away or only deliver 480i. It is a matter of time, people will complain then upgrade. Just like when people use ignore often they pop back in decide to un-ignore

People were supposed to complain about the OTA analog shut off, it was delayed, but still happened.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> The component output can be disabled via software. There is absolutely no reason for DirecTV to rely on the presence or absence of a simple cable to constrain the output. It's not like there is any sort of special authentication mechanism, it's a cable that could easily be produced by a third-party if the need arose.


Not all decisons are made purely on technical basis, there are many other factors such as convenience consideration. Without it people are forced to buy the adaptor, another reason for them to complain.


----------



## Beerstalker

jacmyoung said:


> Does this connector exist now? If so it is a device that circumvents HDCP. But if this connector only passes out 480i it should be able to be sold just fine.


Why on earth would this be circumventing HDCP??????

All it is is a 3.5mm jack on one end and RCA component jacks on the other end. It is an analog cable. The analog outputs are not copy protected. There is no HDCP to be circumventing.

As far as Jeremy's comment about just shutting the component output off with software they could easily do that and probably will eventually. I think that they would leave the component outputs working for a little while longer though so the people who already have the cables and are using them don't suddenly have their HD signal shut off. Say they stop sending out the component adapter in 2014 and shut off the HD analog outputs in 2015, something like that. By 2015 most HDTVs without HDMI (or at least DVI with HDCP) will be around 10 years old or older and be considered old enough that congress/FCC will probably let the sat/cable companies shut off HD analog or at least start using the ICT token or something like it.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> Why on earth would this be circumventing HDCP??????


Just... just leave it alone.


----------



## Beerstalker

I had been trying but that one just got the best of me:lol:

Anyway we have gotten pretty far off topic now with the H25 talk etc. so I'll get back on topic. Did we ever hear anything back from the poster who said he saw a NOMAD in the wild? I could have sworn I saw a post or two but they seemed to disappear before I read them. Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe he did see one and the posts were deleted becasue the info isn't supposed to be out yet?


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> I had been trying but that one just got the best of me:lol:
> 
> Anyway we have gotten pretty far off topic now with the H25 talk etc. so I'll get back on topic. Did we ever hear anything back from the poster who said he saw a NOMAD in the wild? I could have sworn I saw a post or two but they seemed to disappear before I read them. Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe he did see one and the posts were deleted becasue the info isn't supposed to be out yet?


I was talking about the component adapter you kept saying, you know because the H25 lacks it, so there might be an Hdmi to component converter for it? Don't be mad because you lost the "analog loophole" thing, don't be upset by something that does not exist.

As far as the poster who saw Nomad, he said it only had a power insert and an USB port. Was that the post you were asking?


----------



## harsh

Beerstalker said:


> Notice how the new H25 receiver doesn't have a true component output.


This is a false statement.

The H25 doesn't have the familiar RCA component outputs, but it does feature "true" component output. The boggle is why they chose to use an obscure DIN plug given that there are inexpensive 3.5mm TRRS cables already in the marketplace (the ROKU XDS and Creative Labs Zen Vision:M use 3.5mm TRRS to RCA cable).

I'm still betting that the NOMAD does its mangling digitally as opposed to trying to exploit the analog hole.


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> I'm still betting that the NOMAD does its mangling digitally as opposed to trying to exploit the analog hole.


It is almost a no brainer, any cutting edge device would likely not have any analog processing element in it.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> The boggle is why they chose to use an obscure DIN plug given that there are inexpensive 3.5mm TRRS cables already in the marketplace


For whatever reason, they wanted to include audio on the same cable.


----------



## Doug Brott

Beerstalker said:


> Anyway we have gotten pretty far off topic now with the H25 talk etc. so I'll get back on topic. Did we ever hear anything back from the poster who said he saw a NOMAD in the wild? I could have sworn I saw a post or two but they seemed to disappear before I read them. Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe he did see one and the posts were deleted becasue the info isn't supposed to be out yet?


Uh ..



brako said:


> I was actually able to put my hands on a "Nomad" device this week. Its real. I was not able to get a release date but it was my understanding (and belief) that a great deal of work is being put into the product and service.
> 
> I'm anxious to get my own


We don't delete posts .. just because .. There's just been a LOT of circular discussion since then.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this poster saw the device at Revolution ....


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Uh ..
> 
> We don't delete posts .. just because .. There's just been a LOT of circular discussion since then.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this poster saw the device at Revolution ....


I think the same poster in a later post said Nomad has only one power insert and one USB port, assume this is correct, maybe the speculations can be narrowed a little.

Now that the "analog loophole" is out of the way, the Sling-like service is a real possibility for Nomad even if it is a pure digital device. The USB port can hook up to my HDDVR to download my shows and be taken on the road for playback, this one is almost certain. Because this "take it with me" service almost overlap the Sling service for the most part, any streaming capability, if there is one, is likely not going to again overlap with a Sling-like streaming service.

The TWC-like streaming service is now on shaky ground, what others can we think of? Hulu? Netflix? These guys require new licensing agreement. I have never seen a single device so special that it deserved the effort of obtaining a separate programming agreement.

I actually begin to fear this guy is going nowhere.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> I think the same poster in a later post said Nomad has only one power insert and one USB port, assume this is correct, maybe the speculations can be narrowed a little.
> 
> Now that the "analog loophole" is out of the way, the Sling-like service is a real possibility for Nomad even if it is a pure digital device. The USB port can hook up to my HDDVR to download my shows and be taken on the road for playback, this one is almost certain. Because this "take it with me" service almost overlap the Sling service for the most part, any streaming capability, if there is one, is likely not going to again overlap with a Sling-like streaming service.
> 
> The TWC-like streaming service is now on shaky ground, what others can we think of? Hulu? Netflix? These guys require new licensing agreement. I have never seen a single device so special that it deserved the effort of obtaining a separate programming agreement.
> 
> I actually begin to fear this guy is going nowhere.


Really!? :scratchin

You first say that "to go" is like Sling but "streaming" is *NOT* like Sling. Really!? Sling is 100% streaming how is a NOMAD streaming not like a Sling streaming? :scratchin

Then you "fear this guy is going nowhere?" How the heck did you arrive at that conclusion? Sling streams .. Mike White has stated that streaming is on the way. Seriously, why are you going into chicken little mode? It doesn't even make sense.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Really!? :scratchin
> 
> You first say that "to go" is like Sling but "streaming" is *NOT* like Sling. Really!? Sling is 100% streaming how is a NOMAD streaming not like a Sling streaming? :scratchin
> 
> Then you "fear this guy is going nowhere?" How the heck did you arrive at that conclusion? Sling streams .. Mike White has stated that streaming is on the way. Seriously, why are you going into chicken little mode? It doesn't even make sense.


There are of course different kinds of streaming services. As the Nomad was first reported it was speculated it might have a "Sling-like" streaming service, which means streaming off a DVR from home.

The TWC type of streaming service is very different, it streams off some kind of server from the TWC headend, not from the DVR at home. It is in trouble because TWC hand picked its own 30 channels for "redistribution" and got its hands full with the networks.

Hulu and Neflix type of streaming requires separate licensing agreements as a standalone service. As I said above a single device is not likely to be so important to have another round of licensing deals made just for it, when DirecTV already has all usual necessary agreements.

There is one other thing I now remember, I think it was Cablevision that had the idea of a centralized DVR server headend, where the users only use a remote receiver at home to control a space set aside for the account, then record anything they want on that space. Such arrangement was faced with court challenges as well but Cablevision won. Obviously it would be very easy to stream off that giant DVR server everywhere, a very cost effective way to not only provide real DVR service at home, but remotely.

DirecTV already provides centralized servers for VOD and similar services streamed online, I can see a DVR service added to it dedicated to Nomad, where Nomad is basically a mobile DVR I can purchase from DirecTV, I can use Nomad to instruct what shows I subscribe to be recorded onto that server then go anywhere and stream from it, if necessary even have the recorded shows downloaded on my Nomad so I can still use it when streaming is not available on the road. This also solves the issue of limitation on the broadband capacity at home since I can do all the high capacity downloads when I find a high speed wifi hotspot, not have to worry about Comcast *****ing about me going over my meager 200 GB quota, or worry about my dialup speed only capable of downloading still pictures.


----------



## Beerstalker

Doug Brott said:


> Uh ..
> 
> We don't delete posts .. just because .. There's just been a LOT of circular discussion since then.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this poster saw the device at Revolution ....


Yeah, I had seen that post, and the one about the USB port, but I thought I had seen more posts from him.

I find it hard to believe that the NOMAD device will only have a power and USB port. How will it get access to the programming from the DVRs? I imagine the USB port would be to hook it up to your computer so you can move the resulting files to your hard drive for syncing to your device (I can't see Apple letting the iPod/iPhone/iPad sync the files without using iTunes). I figured it would have to have a coax port as well so it can access the DECA network.

I know you don't normally delete posts here, but I also remember the thread about the H24 before it was released (and before the first look) where posts and pictures were deleted. Just thought maybe something similar had happened here.


----------



## BudShark

jacmyoung said:


> There are of course different kinds of streaming services. As the Nomad was first reported it was speculated it might have a "Sling-like" streaming service, which means streaming off a DVR from home.
> 
> The TWC type of streaming service is very different, it streams off some kind of server from the TWC headend, not from the DVR at home. It is in trouble because TWC hand picked its own 30 channels for "redistribution" and got its hands full with the networks.
> 
> Hulu and Neflix type of streaming requires separate licensing agreements as a standalone service. As I said above a single device is not likely to be so important to have another round of licensing deals made just for it, when DirecTV already has all usual necessary agreements.
> 
> There is one other thing I now remember, I think it was Cablevision that had the idea of a centralized DVR server headend, where the users only use a remote receiver at home to control a space set aside for the account, then record anything they want on that space. Such arrangement was faced with court challenges as well but Cablevision won. Obviously it would be very easy to stream off that giant DVR server everywhere, a very cost effective way to not only provide real DVR service at home, but remotely.
> 
> DirecTV already provides centralized servers for VOD and similar services streamed online, I can see a DVR service added to it dedicated to Nomad, where Nomad is basically a mobile DVR I can purchase from DirecTV, I can use Nomad to instruct what shows I subscribe to be recorded onto that server then go anywhere and stream from it, if necessary even have the recorded shows downloaded on my Nomad so I can still use it when streaming is not available on the road. This also solves the issue of limitation on the broadband capacity at home since I can do all the high capacity downloads when I find a high speed wifi hotspot, not have to worry about Comcast *****ing about me going over my meager 200 GB quota, or worry about my dialup speed only capable of downloading still pictures.


:nono:

I seriously doubt a public wifi is going to ever be a better place to download video content. Its not like they have some super secret connection directly to the Internet. They are buying it from the same place you are... they aren't about to hand over their bandwidth so you can avoid pissing off Comcast.

I'd go back and re-read the comments from Mike White. I seriously doubt he was lying or making things up.


----------



## jacmyoung

"BudShark" said:


> :nono:
> 
> I seriously doubt a public wifi is going to ever be a better place to download video content. Its not like they have some super secret connection directly to the Internet. They are buying it from the same place you are... they aren't about to hand over their bandwidth so you can avoid pissing off Comcast.
> 
> I'd go back and re-read the comments from Mike White. I seriously doubt he was lying or making things up.


And allow you to use it for free.

If you speculate Nomad streaming would be available outside of home, then yes public wifi will be the likely way to do it because wireless phone services companies like ATT would not even let your apps use your own network for Sling like video streaming.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> I find it hard to believe that the NOMAD device will only have a power and USB port. How will it get access to the programming from the DVRs? I imagine the USB port would be to hook it up to your computer...


Or to your DVR.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> I find it hard to believe that the NOMAD device will only have a power and USB port.


The poster who saw it said that it had power, Ethernet, and USB.


----------



## jacmyoung

richierich said:


> I thought Doug stated in an earlier Post had said that it would also have Ethernet Connectivity so if that is so then you could use that for Transferring Recordings but I could be wrong.


I don't know how I would feel if a mobile device in this day and age still has an ethernet port


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> I don't know how I would feel if a mobile device in this day and age still has an ethernet port


Nomad isn't a mobile device.


----------



## jacmyoung

Jeremy W said:


> Nomad isn't a mobile device.


A device purely used to off load a recording from a DVR to another mobile device for later viewing would likely have some legal issue to resolve first. I don't see content owners going for it unless there is a fee attached.


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> Mike White has stated that streaming is on the way.


Does it seem reasonable to you that it would take DIRECTV a year to push an already UL approved device out the door?


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> Nomad isn't a mobile device.


Absent DECA, it may be more portable than many had speculated (but certainly not mobile).


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> Does it seem reasonable to you that it would take DIRECTV a year to push an already UL approved device out the door?


Someone saw it at Revolution last week .. what do you think?


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> A device purely used to off load a recording from a DVR to another mobile device for later viewing would likely have some legal issue to resolve first.


I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with TiVo2Go, TiVo Desktop and PocketDISH.

Note that "familiarize yourself" DOES NOT mean salting this thread with questions about them. I cite them as examples of prior art that have been thoroughly discussed (and don't need to be re-explored here).


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> Someone saw it at Revolution last week .. what do you think?


I'm thinking I'm surprised that it isn't going to be released for 7-10 months (Morgan Stanley presentation).


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> unless there is a fee attached.


Why wouldn't there be a fee attached?


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with TiVo2Go, TiVo Desktop and PocketDISH.
> 
> Note that "familiarize yourself" DOES NOT mean salting this thread with questions about them. I cite them as examples of prior art that have been thoroughly discussed (and don't need to be re-explored here).


I know PocketDISH did not transfer recorded programs onto another mobile device, they ended there. Admittedly I don't know enough about the other two.

Copy once is usually allowed, else we will not have DVRs. With the Dish external drive for example, it moved the recording off the DVR, without making a second copy. With streaming however I did not think things are "moved", leaving no second copy. Otherwise everything can only be streamed once.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> Why wouldn't there be a fee attached?


I meant a license fee charged by the content owners, which means much higher fees to the end users.


----------



## veryoldschool

I suspect this product/service will have a new name when it rolls out. 
Along with streaming and transferring


----------



## Drucifer

veryoldschool said:


> I suspect this product/service will have a new name when it rolls out.
> Along with streaming and transferring


I thought I read somewhere DirecTV registered _Nomad_. Seems like a waste of money not to use it.


----------



## Jeremy W

veryoldschool said:


> I suspect this product/service will have a new name when it rolls out.


Why? I'm pretty sure Nomad will be the final name.


----------



## Jeremy W

Drucifer said:


> I thought I read somewhere DirecTV registered _Nomad_. Seems like a waste of money not to use it.


They also registered DirecTV2Go, and look how that turned out. :lol:


----------



## harsh

DIRECTV is deep in the process of registering the DIRECTV NOMAD trademark. An application was filed 10 months ago and was "posted for opposition" on April 12th, 2011. If someone doesn't protest by the middle of May, the device will almost certainly be known as DIRECTV NOMAD® by Summer.

https://www.trademarkia.com/directv-nomad-85070132.html

Here's a run-down of where the process goes from there:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_time_period_for_trademark_application_published_for_opposition


----------



## jacmyoung

Jeremy W said:


> They also registered DirecTV2Go, and look how that turned out. :lol:


I think "DirecTV2Go" is a better fit than "Nomad" for me because while sometimes I do fancy the life of a nomad, I am affraid I will not survive as a nomad for very long, but I sure had ordered to go many times before and lived to tell.


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> I think "DirecTV2Go" is a better fit than "Nomad" for me because while sometimes I do fancy the life of a nomad, I am affraid I will not survive as a nomad for very long, but I sure had ordered to go many times before and lived to tell.


That ship sailed over three years ago.

DIRECTV2Go expired for failure to use (and file a statement of use) the mark.

https://www.trademarkia.com/d-directv2go-78853694.html


----------



## tealcomp

That is because the content providers have found a way to engineer a scheme whereby they think they can charge for the same content over and over. Mainly, because they lack the vision to come up with anything original. The same re-hashed crap over and over. I won't pay a PENNY more to watch content remotely beyond perhaps the cost of the device (assuming I could find something worth watching) if I am going to be providing both the box and the internet service to relay said service. Enough is never enough for these shysters; they couldn't beat copy protection with technology, so they try more worthless laws; they pay the right people to have copyright extended on older content. Really, I am just sick of the greed.


----------



## smiddy

I want me a NOMAD, any word on the release date?


----------



## Doug Brott

would it help if I said "Soon?" 

Seriously though, it might make a good Christmas present ..


----------



## jacmyoung

harsh said:


> That ship sailed over three years ago.
> 
> DIRECTV2Go expired for failure to use (and file a statement of use) the mark.
> 
> https://www.trademarkia.com/d-directv2go-78853694.html


That might be the best thing ever happened to this device. The term "to go" does not evoke imagination and pride, it describes a boring phnomenon associated with low cost, low class and an addiction that is commonly associated to society ills.

The word "nomad" is often associated to the kind of fantasies the upper class (which is what DirecTV is trying to project) expresses, even though most of them would never actually survive it, instead rather order to go.


----------



## AttiTech

jacmyoung said:


> I think "DirecTV2Go" is a better fit than "Nomad" for me because while sometimes I do fancy the life of a nomad, I am affraid I will not survive as a nomad for very long, but I sure had ordered to go many times before and lived to tell.


You would have to keep going to your "place of origin" to renew your recordings


----------



## sigma1914

jacmyoung said:


> That might be the best thing ever happened to this device. The term "to go" does not evoke imagination and pride, it describes a boring phnomenon associated with low cost, low class and an addiction that is commonly associated to society ills.
> 
> The word "nomad" is often associated to the kind of fantasies the upper class (which is what DirecTV is trying to project) expresses, even though most of them would never actually survive it, instead rather order to go.


I don't agree with either word association. "To go" has no relationship to low class or social ills, IMO. It relates to the on-the-go world we live in where time is precious.

As for "nomad," I picture more of what's perceived as a lower class of a society, like a carney family or Irish traveling clan. Another reference is towards nomadic biker gang members who have no official membership to a clubs chapter.


----------



## Doug Brott

You guys are funny ... :lol:


----------



## jacmyoung

sigma1914 said:


> I don't agree with either word association. "To go" has no relationship to low class or social ills, IMO. It relates to the on-the-go world we live in where time is precious.
> 
> As for "nomad," I picture more of what's perceived as a lower class of a society, like a carney family or Irish traveling clan. Another reference is towards nomadic biker gang members who have no official membership to a clubs chapter.


Your above interpretations are literal interpretations while ignoring the term "upper class" as a projected image DirecTV has being trying to convey. If one interprets it in such context, then my above interpretation should be adopted.

But if one does not read in the context, takes the literal meanings of them, one would have concluded that DirecTV had wanted to portray its subs as an upbeat on the go active group of people, but after having second thoughts, ended up concluding we were just a bunch of low life gang members.


----------



## Laxguy

C'mon. You conclude DirecTV's desired image from a name or two? Or do you have a dissertation ready based on their entire programming spectrum? 

Certainly DirecTV is more "U" than Comcast.... but so what?


----------



## smiddy

Doug Brott said:


> would it help if I said "Soon?"
> 
> Seriously though, it might make a good Christmas present ..


Sooner is better than later, so sure. 

Thanks for the update, mucho appreciato!


----------



## jacmyoung

Laxguy said:


> C'mon. You conclude DirecTV's desired image from a name or two? Or do you have a dissertation ready based on their entire programming spectrum?


No I concluded the image from all the comments made by the fine DirecTV subs here and all the press releases made.


----------



## Doug Brott

Double, double toil and trouble; 
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.


----------



## sigma1914

Doug Brott said:


> Double, double toil and trouble;
> Fire burn and cauldron bubble.


Macbeth....hmmm.


----------



## Doug Brott

well if we're conjuring thoughts about the name .. might as well offer a spell to help.


----------



## jacmyoung

Too late guys, the image has long been established, any attempt to act as if you are not part of that image is futile.


----------



## Jeremy W

Doug Brott said:


> well if we're conjuring thoughts about the name .. might as well offer a spell to help.


Halloween release?


----------



## inkahauts

!rolling This thread is great.. I can't wait to see if the nomad will make me happy though.. (I use sling right now, so its debatable)


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> Halloween release?


Doug was wrong about his image of high society, think petite lap giraffes.


----------



## Doug Brott

wrong is such a misunderstood word ....


----------



## harsh

smiddy said:


> I want me a NOMAD, any word on the release date?


Later this year or early next year seems to be the most recent projection.


----------



## billsharpe

harsh said:


> Later this year or early next year seems to be the most recent projection.


I expect this thread to reach 2000 posts by the time Nomad finally appears. We're approaching seven months now and the best estimate is still "soon."


----------



## harsh

billsharpe said:


> I expect this thread to reach 2000 posts by the time Nomad finally appears. We're approaching seven months now and the best estimate is still "soon."


While it comes from an authority figure in this forum, "soon" is not a term that I would apply to the arrival of something that will likely take several months ("up to" 12) to become widely available.


----------



## jacmyoung

"harsh" said:


> While it comes from an authority figure in this forum, "soon" is not a term that I would apply to the arrival of something that will likely take several months ("up to" 12) to become widely available.


Guess "soon" can be a very misunderstood word too


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> Guess "soon" can be a very misunderstood word too


Not so much misunderstood as jokingly used as a substitute for a likely much longer interval.


----------



## Doug Brott

Often the answer isn't known and "soon" doesn't mean a year away .. it means we don't really know, but it shouldn't be much longer (although it could be much longer). It really isn't a specific interval and could mean one hour or one year.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Often the answer isn't known and "soon" doesn't mean a year away .. it means we don't really know, but it shouldn't be much longer (although it could be much longer). It really isn't a specific interval and could mean one hour or one year.


I agree to certain extent. I think it depends on what we are waiting for. If we are talking about copying, I think up to one year is soon, but for streaming up to 6 months instead because no one is offering copying so there is no urgency, but almost everyone is offering some kind of streaming to iPhone, iPad or other smart mobile devices.


----------



## harsh

The root of the word soon used to translate to "immediately".

Webster's defines soon as "without undue time lapse" or "in a prompt manner".

The Free Dictionary uses phrases like "in the near future", "without hesitation" and "before the usual or appointed time".

In no case is soon defined as "planned", "when it passes muster with Legal" or "we're actively engaged in difficult negotiations".


----------



## Doug Brott

you're breaking out the dictionary for the use of the word "soon?" .. I think everyone here understands what I mean when I use it. hint, hint, wink wink, nod, nod :nono2:


----------



## jacmyoung

He should be able to use dictionary, so what is "undue time lapse"? If certain time is necessary to pass legal muster or deal with difficulties of negotiation, such time lapse would not be undue time lapse.

Not that I think legal and licensing should be an issue, just connecting his own dots for him.


----------



## Laxguy

It looks like we're all getting restless here, what with debates on what's in a name, what DirecTV's marketing image is or should be, and now re hashing "soon". 

So, what can we do to be productive here? (Not rhetorical, as I dunno the answer.)


----------



## veryoldschool

Laxguy said:


> So, what can we do to be productive here? (Not rhetorical, as I dunno the answer.)


I doubt there can be much more than "are we there yet?"
Anyone that might know more, can't/won't post or they won't get to play again.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Laxguy" said:


> So, what can we do to be productive here? (Not rhetorical, as I dunno the answer.)


It depends on what the word "productive" really means, I am sure harsh will tell us.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> He should be able to use dictionary, so what is "undue time lapse"? If certain time is necessary to pass legal muster or deal with difficulties of negotiation, such time lapse would not be undue time lapse.
> 
> Not that I think legal and licensing should be an issue, just connecting his own dots for him.


Wow .. then let me make it clear ..

I, Doug Brott, use the term "soon" (usually with quotes, but not always) when It's something is in the pipe but not out yet. Sometimes it will be available in the next day or two, sometimes it will take months, sometimes it will take years and sometimes things will change and it will never happen. This is Internet jargon (Doug speak) .. You can't find that in the dictionary. If you want real time frames, then you will have to get that from DIRECTV .. What you'll get from me is "soon."

Now, show of hands .. Who here thought anything different than "my" definition of "soon?"

And out of curiosity .. how did the discussion of Internet jargon become a "legal and licensing issue?" :scratcin


----------



## BudShark

You mean soon means anything from tomorrow until a future date? Well dangit... I always assumed soon meant after today until sometime prior to the end of time.

I'm all confused now. 

I hope someone can clear this up, and soon!


----------



## harsh

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes, some very cool things coming very soon.





Doug Brott said:


> I, Doug Brott, use the term "soon" (usually with quotes, but not always) when It's something is in the pipe but not out yet. Sometimes it will be available in the next day or two, sometimes it will take months, sometimes it will take years and sometimes things will change and it will never happen.


I think you have confused "soon" with the firmly established "Real Soon Now".

http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/r/RealSoonNow.html


----------



## Go Beavs

Doug Brott said:


> Wow .. then let me make it clear ..
> 
> I, Doug Brott, use the term "soon" (usually with quotes, but not always) when It's something is in the pipe but not out yet. Sometimes it will be available in the next day or two, sometimes it will take months, sometimes it will take years and sometimes things will change and it will never happen. This is Internet jargon (Doug speak) .. You can't find that in the dictionary. If you want real time frames, then you will have to get that from DIRECTV .. What you'll get from me is "soon."
> 
> *Now, show of hands .. Who here thought anything different than "my" definition of "soon?"*
> 
> And out of curiosity .. how did the discussion of Internet jargon become a "legal and licensing issue?" :scratcin


Soon is "soon". I get it Doug and I think a lot of us here do. Your use of the word is better than no information at all.

Some people just have no patience, it's not like we are making life or death decisions (or betting the bank) based on the word "soon".

Some people need to sit back and take a deep breath. It'll be ok...


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> Wow .. then let me make it clear ..
> 
> I, Doug Brott, use the term "soon" (usually with quotes, but not always) when It's something is in the pipe but not out yet. Sometimes it will be available in the next day or two, sometimes it will take months, sometimes it will take years and sometimes things will change and it will never happen. This is Internet jargon (Doug speak) .. You can't find that in the dictionary. If you want real time frames, then you will have to get that from DIRECTV .. What you'll get from me is "soon."
> 
> Now, show of hands .. Who here thought anything different than "my" definition of "soon?"
> 
> And out of curiosity .. how did the discussion of Internet jargon become a "legal and licensing issue?" :scratcin


Thank you for the clarification, may I suggest it is made into a sticky so next time harsh or some one else questions it we just point to that sticky?

BTW, I want to clear something up too, when I use the word "wrong" one cannot find its meaning in the dictionary either, it is just an internet jargon, as for what the jargon really means, I am not even so sure myself. You will have to ask DirecTV.

Although asking DirecTV may be a waste too, sometimes when I press a remote button DirecTV tells me it is a wrong button, when I try to press the correct button it crashes so I had to presss some wrong buttons again just so I can press the right buttons again.


----------



## carl6

Hmmm. I have not been following this thread. I just read the last page or two of posts which has completely validated my original choice to not read this thread.

Of course, we could argue if I meant validated or if I really meant "validated".


----------



## ndole

jacmyoung said:


> Thank you for the clarification, may I suggest it is made into a sticky so next time harsh or some one else questions it we just point to that sticky?
> 
> BTW, I want to clear something up too, when I use the word "wrong" one cannot find its meaning in the dictionary either, it is just an internet jargon, as for what the jargon really means, I am not even so sure myself. You will have to ask DirecTV.
> 
> Although asking DirecTV may be a waste too, sometimes when I press a remote button DirecTV tells me it is a wrong button, *when I try to press the correct button it crashes* so I had to presss some wrong buttons again just so I can press the right buttons again.


Are you sure you're not confusing your remote control with your steering wheel?


----------



## billsharpe

Doug Brott said:


> Often the answer isn't known and "soon" doesn't mean a year away .. it means we don't really know, but it shouldn't be much longer (although it could be much longer). It really isn't a specific interval and could mean one hour or one year.


Thanks for clearing that up, Doug. 

Methinks the waters are still muddy...


----------



## bidger

carl6 said:


> Hmmm. I have not been following this thread. I just read the last page or two of posts which has completely validated my original choice to not read this thread.
> 
> Of course, we could argue if I meant validated or if I really meant "validated".


Ditto.

I'll just wait until there's an official release thread, but that will probably disintegrate too.


----------



## Doug Brott

I do think I used the word Christmas ..


----------



## jacmyoung

"ndole_mbnd" said:


> Are you sure you're not confusing your remote control with your steering wheel?


I am sure of that, when my hands are on my steering wheel, I constantly hear a female voice *****ing about having to recalculate my route and I need to make U turns again and again, DirecTV doesn't do that.


----------



## Groundhog45

Doug Brott said:


> I do think I used the word Christmas ..


Ho Ho Ho!!! And no, I don't mean "ho". :lol:


----------



## kymikes

jacmyoung said:


> Thank you for the clarification, may I suggest it is made into a sticky so next time harsh or some one else questions it we just point to that sticky?


You do realize that this request, if granted, means every comment on any subject will have to be put in a 'sticky'?? :lol:


----------



## litzdog911

I only pay attention to Doug's posts


----------



## mrjrussell

I recently held nomad I can say it appears to be a full production product. 

What I can says is 
It is DHCP so router is a requirement(and so will the DIRECTV cinema connection kit if your using deca), it does not have a DECA (I'm sure you could use a DECA but why waist one of 16 DECA channels when this could be plugged directly into your router).

It weighs under a pound, and about half the size of Linksys router.


----------



## harsh

mrjrussell said:


> I recently held nomad I can say it appears to be a full production product.


Again, I ask the big question: what ports does it have on it? So far it has power, Ethernet, USB and lacks DECA. Are there other jacks/ports?

Any buttons or knobs?

Does it have an antenna on it?


----------



## mrjrussell

It has no buttons, switchs, knobs or antenna.
2 usb
1 ethernet
1 power 

It is absolutly nothing like a slingbox it is offload / convert only.


----------



## Jeremy W

mrjrussell said:


> 2 usb


What type of USB ports? A, B, mini, micro?


----------



## mrjrussell

Sorry I didnt know the differance I had to look it up. They appeared to be Type A


----------



## Jeremy W

mrjrussell said:


> Sorry I didnt know the differance I had to look it up. They appeared to be Type A


Type A is what I would expect, so that makes sense.


----------



## mrjrussell

Most the rest of the information I have received is hearsay and there is a lot of holes to fill in.


----------



## DarkSkies

Pulling recent information, I have to speculate about how this will work later:


the one seen appears to be a full production product.
It is DHCP so router is a requirement (and so will the DIRECTV cinema connection kit if your using deca), 
it does not have a DECA 
It weighs under a pound, and about half the size of Linksys router.
It has no buttons, switchs, knobs or antenna.
2 usb
1 ethernet
1 power
It is absolutly nothing like a slingbox it is offload / convert only.
My speculation:
There will be an enhancement to DIRECTV2PC or a new piece of software for your home PC that detects the Nomad device and lets you choose to "Save As" or "Convert" DVR recordings for your own use?


----------



## mrjrussell

DarkSkies said:


> Pulling recent information, I have to speculate about how this will work later:
> 
> 
> the one seen appears to be a full production product.
> It is DHCP so router is a requirement (and so will the DIRECTV cinema connection kit if your using deca),
> it does not have a DECA
> It weighs under a pound, and about half the size of Linksys router.
> It has no buttons, switchs, knobs or antenna.
> 2 usb
> 1 ethernet
> 1 power
> It is absolutly nothing like a slingbox it is offload / convert only.
> My speculation:
> There will be an enhancement to DIRECTV2PC or a new piece of software for your home PC that detects the Nomad device and lets you choose to "Save As" or "Convert" DVR recordings for your own use?


The speculation about software is what I was told but I have not confirmed it. Nor do I know if it allows for format/resolutioon selection and I have no idea if software on the playback device is required.


----------



## Jeremy W

mrjrussell said:


> I have no idea if software on the playback device is required.


In order for copy protection to be imposed, there will have to be software on the playback device.


----------



## Doug Brott

Jeremy W said:


> In order for copy protection to be imposed, there will have to be software on the playback device.


This is a valid point and DIRECTV2PC is a good example of said protection ...


----------



## Jeremy W

Doug Brott said:


> This is a valid point and DIRECTV2PC is a good example of said protection ...


It's been a while since DirecTV2PC has been updated...


----------



## Doug Brott

I wouldn't look for an update to DIRECTV2PC .. Well, I think there will be a bug fix release soon, but nothing new.


----------



## Jeremy W

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't look for an update to DIRECTV2PC .. Well, I think there will be a bug fix release soon, but nothing new.


Yeah, that was my point.


----------



## mrjrussell

dont crush my dreams! I can hope a 3rd party app wont be needed. I would like to use it on my storm2.


----------



## spartanstew

mrjrussell said:


> dont crush my dreams! I can hope a 3rd party app wont be needed. I would like to use it on my storm2.


Maybe you'll be able to put the app on your phone.


----------



## DarkSkies

I'm really looking forward to this, and now based on software needs for conversion and playback, I'm wondering what the cost models will be.

For example, a model that would be good for DIRECTV but expensive for customers would be that with your Nomad device purchase you get the device, conversion software for your PC, plus installation of playback software on one compatible device. For each additional playback device you have to purchase the software again. 

A better model for customers would be to get the Nomad device with conversion software plus playback software for up to N devices, where N is maybe the size of an average household, or the number of DVRs, something like that.

I would also guess the software on the playback devices would require some form of the DIRECTV account credentials, but I'm hoping that it won't be like HBO Go where the master DIRECTV account password is required. I could see households with 2 parents and 2 kids where the parents would be fine using the DIRECTV password, but they wouldn't want the kids to have it.

Instead, I hope the playback devices could be registered on the DIRECTV account like Netflix lets you register playback devices, or Amazon lets you register devices for Kindle. 

I really just hope it's not too expensive to add multiple playback devices, because my guess is DIRECTV will go for the first cost model in my examples...


----------



## veryoldschool

DarkSkies said:


> I'm really looking forward to this, and now based on software needs for conversion and playback, I'm wondering what the cost models will be.


Going all the way back to the first post and the survey, the questions seemed to be $100-$200 for the hardware + monthly fee. The monthly fee "might" be increased per number of devices, but this last part is a complete guess. :shrug:


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> Going all the way back to the first post and the survey, the questions seemed to be $100-$200 for the hardware + monthly fee. The monthly fee "might" be increased per number of devices, but this last part is a complete guess. :shrug:


yeah, seems more service oriented in nature.


----------



## DarkSkies

I forgot about the monthly fees. I should never forget about monthly fees.


----------



## harsh

mrjrussell said:


> It has no buttons, switchs, knobs or antenna.
> 2 usb
> 1 ethernet
> 1 power
> 
> It is absolutly nothing like a slingbox it is offload / convert only.


I appreciate you finishing out your report. Thanks.


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> This is a valid point and DIRECTV2PC is a good example of said protection ...


Given the system requirements of DIRECTV2PC, you have to wonder whether simpler media devices will be up to that level of decryption.


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> Given the system requirements of DIRECTV2PC, you have to wonder whether simpler media devices will be up to that level of decryption.


Is this a real question? Have you seen the processors that are available in smart phones these days? Jeez ...


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Given the system requirements of DIRECTV2PC, you have to wonder whether simpler media devices will be up to that level of decryption.


The whole point of Nomad is transcoding for mobile devices. It'll put out much smaller files that can easily be stored and consumed on today's mobile devices.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"veryoldschool" said:


> Going all the way back to the first post and the survey, the questions seemed to be $100-$200 for the hardware + monthly fee. The monthly fee "might" be increased per number of devices, but this last part is a complete guess. :shrug:


I would think that said monthly fee would be Included into the connected home package in the end and it just be a hardware cost to consumer to enable the ability. Just my 2cents. Directv has gotten a little smarter with fees lately. Hence the ipad app being free.

If they tag a service fee ontop of the connected home package fee then id see a lot of ppl buying the hardware and then just turning the service on when they want to use it and then back off when done.


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> Is this a real question? Have you seen the processors that are available in smart phones these days? Jeez ...


The Windows requirements are a dual core processor. Dual core phones, media players and tablets aren't exactly flooding the market.

If they never managed a DIRECTV2PC client for the Mac, what makes you think the Java version is going to be a walk in the park? The average Mac is arguably more like a media player than the randomly selected Windows machine.

I'm thinking that there's going to be some other form of DRM used that is more in line with the least common denominator of target devices.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> The whole point of Nomad is transcoding for mobile devices. It'll put out much smaller files that can easily be stored and consumed on today's mobile devices.


I'm thinking DRM.


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> If they tag a service fee ontop of the connected home package fee then id see a lot of ppl buying the hardware and then just turning the service on when they want to use it and then back off when done.


I doubt that this will be tied to WHDS.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"harsh" said:


> I doubt that this will be tied to WHDS.


Coulda sworn someone mentioned it being a req to use it. Obv spec to an extent but in the end it makes perfect sense to me why it would be. Were not talking live streaming and thus far really discussing content off loading thats already on the box's. I just dont see a monthly fee for that use as noone else charges for that kinda use on monthly basis.


----------



## mrjrussell

The better bet for directv is to make the money on the NOMAD device. But star-bucks (money runs the universe) comes in to play, if a bean counter says directv will make more $$ if they charge $5 a month for the service they just might(we have no idea if the nomad will be free contigent on a service fee or if you just purchase the device). Paying a exobinate monthly fee is another deal ender for me. They already changed some wording on directv2pc to say that its a beta and may have a charge in the future. And I cant even use that damm service becuase I dont have a HDMI laptop


----------



## veryoldschool

mrjrussell said:


> The better bet for directv is to make the money on the NOMAD device. But star-bucks (money runs the universe) comes in to play, if a bean counter says directv will make more $$ if they charge $5 a month for the service they just might(we have no idea if the nomad will be free contigent on a service fee or if you just purchase the device). Paying a exobinate monthly fee is another deal ender for me. They already changed some wording on directv2pc to say that its a beta and may have a charge in the future. And I cant even use that damm service becuase I dont have a HDMI laptop


As we've seen with MRV [whole home DVR service] I think DirecTV has learned their bread and butter comes from the monthly fees.
IIRC the survey asked various questions about what price for the hardware, but all had a monthly fee.
When you have literally millions of customers, even a $1/month fee adds up to real $$$$$ monthly.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"mrjrussell" said:


> The better bet for directv is to make the money on the NOMAD device. But star-bucks (money runs the universe) comes in to play, if a bean counter says directv will make more $$ if they charge $5 a month for the service they just might(we have no idea if the nomad will be free contigent on a service fee or if you just purchase the device). Paying a exobinate monthly fee is another deal ender for me. They already changed some wording on directv2pc to say that its a beta and may have a charge in the future. And I cant even use that damm service becuase I dont have a HDMI laptop


True we always say if they can make $ on it then there will be a fee. BUT bc we have this thing called competition we luck out at times and this is one where I think we will too. Slingbox doesn't charge monthly for access nor does the other similar services that timewarner or cox have that let you watch recordings. Bc of this alone we have a very good chance of not having a monthly fee. How bad would it look to be charging for something others offer for free? Yes there may be some differences b/w them but still concept is same kinda.
Also if they were going to charge for everything they would of charged for the reg. directv app and the ipad app.


----------



## billsharpe

mrjrussell said:


> They already changed some wording on directv2pc to say that its a beta and may have a charge in the future. And I cant even use that damm service becuase I dont have a HDMI laptop


You can use DirecTV2pc without the HDMI laptop; you just won't get an HD picture.


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Coulda sworn someone mentioned it being a req to use it. Obv spec to an extent but in the end it makes perfect sense to me why it would be.


I can't imagine why someone with only one Plus HD DVR would be required to pay the WHDS fee in addition to a NOMAD fee to use the "service".

Obviously DECA isn't a prerequisite.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"harsh" said:


> I can't imagine why someone with only one Plus HD DVR would be required to pay the WHDS fee in addition to a NOMAD fee to use the "service".
> 
> Obviously DECA isn't a prerequisite.


Have a slight point for those that have only 1 box in their home. But I think thats low # ppl anyway. Now ppl with 1hddvr and other hd boxes would.
Still main point is doubt they charge monthly fee for it as it would backfire markwting wise with others offering similar for free. They didnt charge for ipad app nor the reg apps which could be described as a service to an extent. If they were money grubbing they woulda made the ipad app 1.99 instead of free.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> I'm thinking DRM.


DRM is not why DirecTV2PC's system requirements are so high.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Have a slight point for those that have only 1 box in their home. But I think thats low # ppl anyway. Now ppl with 1hddvr and other hd boxes would.
> Still main point is doubt they charge monthly fee for it as it would backfire markwting wise with others offering similar for free. They didnt charge for ipad app nor the reg apps which could be described as a service to an extent. If they were money grubbing they woulda made the ipad app 1.99 instead of free.


Having had some direct contact with DirecTV marketing over the MRV charge, they will carefully analyze their position.
Many pointed out how other providers weren't charging for MRV. Marketing's response was to show [by provider] how the others were incorporating it into their "normal" monthly fee.
Make no mistake. DirecTV will look long and hard at this and if they feel they can charge a service [monthly] fee and still be competitive [in their eyes], there will be a charge.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"veryoldschool" said:


> Having had some direct contact with DirecTV marketing over the MRV charge, they will carefully analyze their position.
> Many pointed out how other providers weren't charging for MRV. Marketing's response was to show [by provider] how the others were incorporating it into their "normal" monthly fee.
> Make no mistake. DirecTV will look long and hard at this and if they feel they can charge a service [monthly] fee and still be competitive [in their eyes], there will be a charge.


Yeah but showing how a slingbox hides the fee of watching remotely..... Impossible
Dunno bout the regular providers charges yet though that allow remote viewing or something along those lines.

In the end I think they will go with a charge for the device and no monthly fee. Otherwise they will deal with ppl like me calling to activate the service when I want to use it and cancel it when done. This doesnt happen with mrv bc its used much more freq than this likely will. Unless you travel a bunch.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah but showing how a slingbox hides the fee of watching remotely..... Impossible
> Dunno bout the regular providers charges yet though that allow remote viewing or something along those lines.
> 
> In the end I think they will go with a charge for the device and no monthly fee. Otherwise they will deal with ppl like me calling to activate the service when I want to use it and cancel it when done. This doesnt happen with mrv bc its used much more freq than this likely will. Unless you travel a bunch.


You touch on my thoughts while viewing the survey.
I think $200 was the high price point and then it dropped in maybe $50 steps with higher monthly fees.
To do what might become the same things [sling + PVR] it would cost about $300 up front with no monthly costs. So "if I was interested" I'd go with the no monthly fee and would break even within a year +/-.

Call it the law of large numbers [which I think really is for something else, but...] even if they only charged $1/month, the annual return is simply staggering.
Look at what the HD fee returns: [rough guesses] 19 million customers, 60% with HD, so 10 million x $10 = $100 million/month or 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS annually.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"veryoldschool" said:


> You touch on my thoughts while viewing the survey.
> I think $200 was the high price point and then it dropped in maybe $50 steps with higher monthly fees.
> To do what might become the same things [sling + PVR] it would cost about $300 up front with no monthly costs. So "if I was interested" I'd go with the no monthly fee and would break even within a year +/-.
> 
> Call it the law of large numbers [which I think really is for something else, but...] even if they only charged $1/month, the annual return is simply staggering.
> Look at what the HD fee returns: [rough guesses] 19 million customers, 60% with HD, so 10 million x $10 = $100 million/month or 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS annually.


Yeah exactly. Me id rather pay more for the device itself than have a monthly fee. Simply bc I could go.get a slingbox and do same thing and over 3yrs or so I would recoupe what I would of paid In Monthly fees. 
Less they can show marketing wise where the others charge for it then I dont see it happening on monthly fee or possibly be something like its $1/mo if you dont have connected home, and free if you do have connected home.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah exactly. Me id rather pay more for the device itself than have a monthly fee. Simply bc I could go.get a slingbox and do same thing and over 3yrs or so I would recoupe what I would of paid In Monthly fees.
> Less they can show marketing wise where the others charge for it then I dont see it happening on monthly fee or possibly be something like its $1/mo if you dont have connected home, and free if you do have connected home.


Since they haven't told me their final plans, "just keep hoping" :lol:
For me the $3/month for MRV has shown their hand. There is simply too much return for them to not "take a monthly bite".


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"veryoldschool" said:


> Since they haven't told me their final plans, "just keep hoping" :lol:
> For me the $3/month for MRV has shown their hand. There is simply too much return for them to not "take a monthly bite".


Agree but mrv will be used much more freq than this overall in grand scheme of things. Hence others providing it for free cept hardware costs.


----------



## Beerstalker

I personally think they will end up charging a monthly fee for this. The content providers are too used to getting paid fr this stuff, and it sounds like they are making DirecTV give them more money for this ability, therefore DirecTV will pass that cost on to users.

Think about it, how many DirecTV subs will continue to buy/rent movies/shows from itunes, Amazon, etc. when they can record it to their DVR and then transfer it to their ipad from there for free? The content owners are going to want DirecTV to make up for that lost revenue.


----------



## jacmyoung

Beerstalker said:


> I personally think they will end up charging a monthly fee for this. The content providers are too used to getting paid fr this stuff, and it sounds like they are making DirecTV give them more money for this ability, therefore DirecTV will pass that cost on to users.
> 
> Think about it, how many DirecTV subs will continue to buy/rent movies/shows from itunes, Amazon, etc. when they can record it to their DVR and then transfer it to their ipad from there for free? The content owners are going to want DirecTV to make up for that lost revenue.


If so Nomad will not be as competitive as Sling. Now that Dish/Blockbuster/TiVo are working together, I hope DirecTV steps up gives us a good choice to answer the competition.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> DRM is not why DirecTV2PC's system requirements are so high.


What is your theory?

For most machines, scaling is done in hardware and in many cases, so is the decoding. That would seem to leave moving the data and decryption.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> What is your theory?
> 
> For most machines, scaling is done in hardware and in many cases, so is the decoding. That would seem to leave moving the data and decryption.


If you had ever actually used the software, you'd know that on a machine that has hardware h.264 decoding capability, the CPU utilization is negligible. I'm not going to waste my time discussing this further with someone who can't even open up the program to see what's actually going on.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> If you had ever actually used the software, you'd know that on a machine that has hardware h.264 decoding capability, the CPU utilization is negligible. I'm not going to waste my time discussing this further with someone who can't even open up the program to see what's actually going on.


Smart man. It's completely useless/waste of time.
I played with an old PC to see how "slow" a CPU would work and found an old 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 HT [478 pin] had all the horsepower to work fine "if" the video GPU could handle the H264 decoding. Actually even a slower CPU would work [I slowed mine down to 1.7 GHz], but MPEG-2 HD had problems below 2.8 GHz.


----------



## harsh

So how many of you have media players, phones or tablets with processing power equivalent to a 1.7GHz Pentium 4 or better?

As an example, the iPad can run at "up to" 1GHz.
The iPhone uses a similar processor clocked at 800MHz.
The DroidX and Droid2 use a 1GHz clock speed.
Even the iPad2 uses a dual coare 1Ghz setup.

All of these processors are decidedly RISCy.

Another consideration is that most of these devices feature 512KB of RAM or less.

VOS' data would seem to confirm that these devices are going to be hard pressed to handle the decryption used by DIRECTV2PC.


----------



## veryoldschool

My data doesn't "suggest" anything other than I didn't slow the CPU down to where MPEG-4 had playback issues.


----------



## Beerstalker

harsh said:


> So how many of you have media players, phones or tablets with processing power equivalent to a 1.7GHz Pentium 4 or better?
> 
> As an example, the iPad can run at "up to" 1GHz.
> The iPhone uses a similar processor clocked at 800MHz.
> The DroidX and Droid2 use a 1GHz clock speed.
> Even the iPad2 uses a dual coare 1Ghz setup.
> 
> All of these processors are decidedly RISCy.
> 
> Another consideration is that most of these devices feature 512KB of RAM or less.
> 
> VOS' data would seem to confirm that these devices are going to be hard pressed to handle the decryption used by DIRECTV2PC.


You also need to remember that this is most likely going to be quite a bit different than DirecTV2PC. DirecTV2PC has to stream the recording off of the DVR, check for DRM, HDCP, scren capture programs, etc., and then scale it to fit the window size that you have displayed on your monitor.

Most likely the NOMAD is going to take the recording and transcode it into an MP4 file (or something similar) specific for your device (change framerate, resolution, etc.) and incorporate DRM into that file. All of this will be done on your PC not your portable device. Then they will just have a DirecTV NOMAD app that you put on your device that will be used to play those files. At leasst this is how I am guessing it will work.



jacmyoung said:


> If so Nomad will not be as competitive as Sling. Now that Dish/Blockbuster/TiVo are working together, I hope DirecTV steps up gives us a good choice to answer the competition.


This is not supposed to compete with Sling. This is not for streaming. This is for taking your recordings with you anywhere and not having to rely on WiFi or 3G coverage to watch them.

I believe that DirecTV is going to work on a different idea for streaming that is going to be more like Time Warner's system. They will have servers where they store all the content (like they currently do with On Demand) and you will stream the content from there, not from your home DVR or receivers. This way people without internet service, or with slow internet service, can still take advantage of both NOMAD, and their streaming service.

Again, this is what I think they are going to do. I have no inside knowledge, and I don't think many others here do either. The ones that do know likely can't say anything yet.


----------



## veryoldschool

Beerstalker said:


> This is not supposed to compete with Sling. This is not for streaming. This is for taking your recordings with you anywhere and not having to rely on WiFi or 3G coverage to watch them.
> 
> I believe that DirecTV is going to work on a different idea for streaming that is going to be more like Time Warner's system. They will have servers where they store all the content (like they currently do with On Demand) and you will stream the content from there, not from your home DVR or receivers. This way people without internet service, or with slow internet service, can still take advantage of both NOMAD, and their streaming service.
> 
> Again, this is what I think they are going to do. I have no inside knowledge, and I don't think many others here do either. The ones that do know likely can't say anything yet.


While I may not know any more than you, storing/transferring AND streaming were the features/aspects of this product in the initial survey.
I'm not sure the cost/idea of having everything on servers for on demand will be their approach either. It seems to make more sense to use the customer's DVRs as they could handle things like "resume" so much better.


----------



## Beerstalker

veryoldschool said:


> While I may not know any more than you, storing/transferring AND streaming were the features/aspects of this product in the initial survey.
> I'm not sure the cost/idea of having everything on servers for on demand will be their approach either. It seems to make more sense to use the customer's DVRs as they could handle things like "resume" so much better.


Yeah I think that they are going to try to roll it out together, but I think it is really going to be 2 different things. While it would be easier to just stream from the subscribers home, then they are relying on someone elses network/internet service provider. I don't think they really like doing that. This is also why I believe they are working on their "Push" PPV/On-Demand content, it allows them to keep PPV/On Demand content under their own control rather than relying on ISPs.

Of course it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> While I may not know any more than you, storing/transferring AND streaming were the features/aspects of this product in the initial survey.
> I'm not sure the cost/idea of having everything on servers for on demand will be their approach either. It seems to make more sense to use the customer's DVRs as they could handle things like "resume" so much better.


While I'd agree that this makes sense simply from a storage capability, it may also make sense for DIRECTV to act as man in the middle in a very similar way that Citrix does for Gotomeeting and GotomyPC. This would negate the need for setting up firewalls, etc. on the home end and make the entire system more plug and play.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> Yeah I think that they are going to try to roll it out together, but I think it is really going to be 2 different things. While it would be easier to just stream from the subscribers home, then they are relying on someone elses network/internet service provider. I don't think they really like doing that. This is also why I believe they are working on their "Push" PPV/On-Demand content, it allows them to keep PPV/On Demand content under their own control rather than relying on ISPs.
> 
> Of course it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong


Right after the Blockbuster sale, DirecTV sent out another survey asking people about a Netflix-like service. Everyone is trying to share that pie, more importantly no one wants to be left behind.

But you are correct Nomad does not have to be a part of it, it would be nice if it is though. Copying and take it with you had been tried before by Dish without success.


----------



## Beerstalker

jacmyoung said:


> Right after the Blockbuster sale, DirecTV sent out another survey asking people about a Netflix-like service. Everyone is trying to share that pie, more importantly no one wants to be left behind.
> 
> But you are correct Nomad does not have to be a part of it, it would be nice if it is though. Copying and take it with you had been tried before by Dish without success.


I believe this Netflix-like service is going to be the steaming service I am talking about. It will be servers on their end that you can stream shows from to your iPhone, iPad, Android, and your DirecTV HD-DVRs (and maybe even the regular HD receivers). Pretty much a big upgrade to their current On-Demand system (as far as the free stuff goes). I believe linear PPV, and On-Demand PPV will stay seperate.


----------



## Doug Brott

Beerstalker said:


> I believe this Netflix-like service is going to be the steaming service I am talking about. It will be servers on their end that you can stream shows from to your iPhone, iPad, Android, and your DirecTV HD-DVRs (and maybe even the regular HD receivers). Pretty much a big upgrade to their current On-Demand system (as far as the free stuff goes). I believe linear PPV, and On-Demand PPV will stay seperate.


DIRECTV did create a link to Youtube (proof of concept?) .. A similar mechanism could easily be used if DIRECTV creates their own service like Youtube, but instead of adding private/short video clips, they add full length shows.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> VOS' data would seem to confirm that these devices are going to be hard pressed to handle the decryption used by DIRECTV2PC.


VOS said absolutely nothing about decryption. I don't know why you're stuck on it, but it's completely irrelevant. I'm sure that the PC VOS had trouble playing back HD video on would have no trouble with SD video. They both use the exact same encryption, so that's clearly not the culprit.

The DTCP encryption standard used by DirecTV2PC has been around since *1998*. It's not that CPU intensive.


----------



## jacmyoung

Anyone knows if the lastest lawsuit Disney filed against Dish regarding distribution of Starz movies has anything to do with the Sling service? If so we know what DirecTV might be faced with if they offer a similar service.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jeremy W said:


> I'm sure that the PC VOS had trouble playing back HD video on would have no trouble with SD video. They both use the exact same encryption, so that's clearly not the culprit.
> 
> The DTCP encryption standard used by DirecTV2PC has been around since *1998*. It's not that CPU intensive.


 What trouble? 
Again there is basset barf here.
There is no more MPEG-2 HD to even worry about, which was what put the most demand on the CPU, as it wasn't being offloaded to the GPU as MPEG-4 is/was.
SD has such a light load as to be non existent.
I could drop my CPU down to 1.7 GHz very easy and stopped there "only because" it would have been harder to slow it down further. IIRC the CPU load was ~ 40% or less, which suggests it could have been slowed down much more before ANY problems would be noticed.


----------



## LameLefty

Look, an Apple TV or first-gen iPad can play rented, encrypted iTunes video content (which is based on h.264) without a burp. What's the problem with expecting NOMAD-created files to also play just fine?

Sounds like the doggie is barking at the moon (again).


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> VOS said absolutely nothing about decryption.


No, but he eliminated decoding as an issue by noting that he was using a display card that could do it. What would seem to remain is the transfer of data (mostly DMA) and the decryption.


> I don't know why you're stuck on it, but it's completely irrelevant.


If it starts breaking up at some lower clock speed (still MUCH higher than any wireless phone), how do you reconcile that?


> I'm sure that the PC VOS had trouble playing back HD video on would have no trouble with SD video.


Since the decoding and any scaling are handled by the display card, the only thing left is decryption.


> They both use the exact same encryption, so that's clearly not the culprit.


The culprit is the ability to process a lot of data. It is my claim that the only "processing" that is going on is the decryption.


> The DTCP encryption standard used by DirecTV2PC has been around since *1998*. It's not that CPU intensive.


Maybe it is. The DIRECTV equipment has the hardware decryption, decoding and scaling built in so it doesn't apply at the receiver level.


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> Look, an Apple TV or first-gen iPad can play rented, encrypted iTunes video content (which is based on h.264) without a burp. What's the problem with expecting NOMAD-created files to also play just fine?


The idea being put forth by some is that DIRECTV is going to use their standard DVR encryption scheme as opposed to any of the schemes that are currently supported by lightweight clients. I think it is unreasonable to expect that you could write Java code that could efficiently implement DIRECTV's decryption scheme on a low horsepower device like a media capable Crackberry.

I suspect DIRECTV is going to have to use something other than their DVR encryption scheme as the NOMAD recreates the scaled stream.

It is also possible that the NOMAD streams have no DRM but that's likely to have a negative impact on what will be allowed PQ-wise.


----------



## jacmyoung

From a technical standpoint, if our HR24s have enough juice in them, there would be no need to have Nomad device.

The guide still chokes on everyone of them, sometimes the fast forward too, we learned to live with them.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> The guide still chokes on everyone of them, sometimes the fast forward too, we learned to live with them.


It's fun to learn new things, isn't it ...


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> It's fun to learn new things, isn't it ...


To live with less than ideal situations is definitely not a new thing for me, at age 1 maybe, but not now


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> From a technical standpoint, if our HR24s have enough juice in them, there would be no need to have Nomad device.


There's just not enough horsepower in any current DVR (from any manufacturer) to downconvert a HD data stream.

Brand E* (and presumably the plan for DIRECTV2Go) gets away with it by not downconverting.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> The DIRECTV equipment has the hardware decryption, decoding and scaling built in so it doesn't apply at the receiver level.


DirecTV uses VideoGuard in the receiver. The receiver strips the VideoGuard and adds DTCP for streaming over the network.


----------



## mrjrussell

harsh said:


> The idea being put forth by some is that DIRECTV is going to use their standard DVR encryption scheme as opposed to any of the schemes that are currently supported by lightweight clients. I think it is unreasonable to expect that you could write Java code that could efficiently implement DIRECTV's decryption scheme on a low horsepower device like a media capable Crackberry.
> 
> I suspect DIRECTV is going to have to use something other than their DVR encryption scheme as the NOMAD recreates the scaled stream.
> 
> It is also possible that the NOMAD streams have no DRM but that's likely to have a negative impact on what will be allowed PQ-wise.


Off topic but hanvt you heard about the new software roll out ?  It should fix off the the guide isues and look / work much slicker

I believe the point of the nomad and the stand alone software used to control it is just that.. convert the video files to a format that will play on differant devices. that cant support the direct format /encryptions


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> The receiver strips the VideoGuard and adds DTCP for streaming over the network.


The question is what they will use for remote streaming or to protect downloaded content.

Do you expect that DTCP decryption is supported in hardware or can be implemented in software on a 600MHz wireless phone or similar?


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> The question is what they will use for remote streaming or to protect downloaded content.


The answer is something we don't know. It's pointless to speculate on it, because in the end it's unimportant.


harsh said:


> Do you expect that DTCP decryption is supported in hardware or can be implemented in software on a 600MHz wireless phone or similar?


DTCP is only used for transmission, not persistent storage. So I'm sure they won't be using it either way.


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> There's just not enough horsepower in any current DVR (from any manufacturer) to downconvert a HD data stream.
> 
> Brand E* (and presumably the plan for DIRECTV2Go) gets away with it by not downconverting.


Hogwash. They are always down converting all HD signals and outputting them right now as we speak, at least Directv's are, and have been since day one. They aren't making the Nomad simply because these units can't down convert, because they can, and do. The issue is copyright, and down converting to a variety of different formats for different devices. A good system will work with many different devices that all require different settings, and that is why they are in need of a dedicated device so that it can have all the different down conversion capabilities as well as spend lots of time talking to the computer... Down converting by itself is not the problem.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Hogwash. They are always down converting all HD signals and outputting them right now as we speak, at least Directv's are, and have been since day one.


Harsh is actually correct on this one. Downconverting video for output to your TV is handled by a dedicated video processing chip. Downconverting video for output to a file would have to be handled by the CPU. The load would crush even the HR24. They are two very different processes.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> The answer is something we don't know. It's pointless to speculate on it, because in the end it's unimportant.


In the end, it will determine which devices are capable of decrypting the data streams and which aren't. That makes it just short of when (or if) the NOMAD is released in importance.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> In the end, it will determine which devices are capable of decrypting the data streams and which aren't.


Only in your little fantasy world.


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> In the end, it will determine which devices are capable of decrypting the data streams and which aren't. That makes it just short of when (or if) the NOMAD is released in importance.


While you may need a more modern PC, I suspect the usual suspects will be supported.


----------



## billsharpe

Doug Brott said:


> While you may need a more modern PC, I suspect the usual suspects will be supported.


Indeed, I think by the time Nomad ships everyone will probably have a more modern PC


----------



## harsh

billsharpe said:


> Indeed, I think by the time Nomad ships everyone will probably have a more modern PC


By that time, everyone might have a Mac.


----------



## Groundhog45

harsh said:


> By that time, everyone might have a Mac.


Not everyone.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

harsh said:


> By that time, everyone might have a Mac.


Never


----------



## Laxguy

Excellent! We need several million or billion PC users to keep the fires going under Apple. 

But you PC die hards should be grateful to Mr. Jobs: without Apple and other competition, you'd be on DOS v 78.4.6...........little cursors and green screens, maybe not, but Windows would be p.i.a. without all the GUI they copied from Macs.


----------



## veryoldschool

Laxguy said:


> Excellent! We need several million or billion PC users to keep the fires going under Apple.
> 
> But you PC die hards should be grateful to Mr. Jobs: without Apple and other competition, you'd be on DOS v 78.4.6...........little cursors and green screens, maybe not, but Windows would be p.i.a. without all the GUI they copied from Macs.


And Apple would still be screwed if they didn't ripoff the GUI from PARC.


----------



## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> And Apple would still be screwed if they didn't ripoff the GUI from PARC.


Or the mouse from them also.


----------



## Laxguy

veryoldschool said:


> And Apple would still be screwed if they didn't ripoff the GUI from PARC.


I say there'd be no Apple if it weren't for the "collaboration" @ PARC!
:sure:


----------



## Drucifer

Laxguy said:


> Excellent! We need several million or billion PC users to keep the fires going under Apple.
> 
> But you PC die hards should be grateful to Mr. Jobs: without Apple and other competition, you'd be on DOS v 78.4.6...........little cursors and green screens, maybe not, but Windows would be p.i.a. *without all the GUI they copied from Macs*.


That was previous copied from Xerox. And there's even older various GUIs. The Mac just used an method that was decades old in the making and claimed it as theirs.

The Mac just proves if you tell a lie often enough, it will become fact.


----------



## veryoldschool

It may be time to get back to the topic, which isn't GUIs and where they came from.
[sorry if I caused this tangent]


----------



## jacmyoung

"Drucifer" said:


> That was previous copied from Xerox. And there's even older various GUIs. The Mac just used an method that was decades old in the making and claimed it as theirs.
> 
> The Mac just proves if you tell a lie often enough, it will become fact.


Who do we think Nomad should copy to become the next Apple of the world?


----------



## harsh

RAD said:


> Or the mouse from them also.


Xerox PARC didn't conceive of the mouse (an honor that belongs to Doug Engelbart of the Stanford Research Institute) nor did they ship the first commercial mouse (this came from Telefunken in 1970, 11 years before it showed up on the Xerox Star).


----------



## harsh

Laxguy said:


> But you PC die hards should be grateful to Mr. Jobs: without Apple and other competition, you'd be on DOS v 78.4.6...........little cursors and green screens, maybe not, but Windows would be p.i.a. without all the GUI they copied from Macs.


You don't give enough credit to the "other competition". Competitors like Commodore (GEOS, Amiga), Atari (ST with DRI's GEM), NeXT and later Be were the ones that lit the charge under both Macs and Pee Cees.


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> You don't give enough credit to the "other competition". Competitors like Commodore (GEOS, Amiga), Atari (ST with DRI's GEM), NeXT and later Be were the ones that lit the charge under both Macs and Pee Cees.


Yes, I did give equal mention, and appreciate your filling in the major players.

Now back to topic!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

There's a whole other forum for discussing random tech stuff. This is the Nomad thread.

I'm just sayin'... :backtotop

Mike


----------



## harsh

Mike Bertelson said:


> There's a whole other forum for discussing random tech stuff. This is the Nomad thread.


Nobody seem to want to speculate much about the NOMAD.

I get the distinct impression that NOMAD isn't decidedly more than DIRECTV2Go was to be outside of broader support for different media devices. I think this is likely a result of the realities of the conditions that content providers are placing on what happens with their digitally recorded copies of their content.


----------



## harsh

Laxguy said:


> Yes, I did give equal mention, and appreciate your filling in the major players.


That's kind of like saying that Earl and some other nameless folks won an emmy.


----------



## upgrade-itis

Wow, This thread is all over the place.

It seems like the problem with the big "players" is the Digital DVR content stored and then taken on the go. Streaming poses other challenges as well. I could see how this can upset the content providers.

I just want a Directv2ipad to take on the patio on my home network. I guess I need to go the buggy Sling route.


----------



## KenW

I've been using a DVD recorder to get content from my DVR to my iPad. I can pull 2 hours at a time without much loss of quality. I do wish it was a little more convenient to take content with me though. Nomad sounds like it would fill that need. 

My experience tells me Nomad, in the first generation, won't be as good as what I have today.


----------



## inkahauts

I don't think Nomad will be all that different from gen to gen. I think its the software that will change over time.... Just like the HR's...


----------



## HoTat2

Say folks;

Just a heads up;

Can't post any pictures or videos due to risk of copyright infringement, but if you have a valid user account to the site you can see the actual Nomad unit now being demonstrated in the latest (July 2011) DirecTV tech. training video hosted by Ray Edwards at www.satinstalltraining.com in the video downloads section.

A warning though, this a special site for training DirecTV techs and not really for public viewing, thus it is password protected.

But for those DirecTV techs. and others who for whatever reasons also have a logon account with them (or may locate logon info. by other means  ) you can download and view the video.

Note: for some reason the 680X480 res. .wmv video seems to be defective and you may have to download the smaller 320x240 one.

Very cool looking device Nomad. Looks outwardly like a BB DECA on steroids with three LED indicators on its right front, but only has a single ethernet port on the back along with what looks like a USB port and barrel power jack.

While Edwards only covered some details with more promised ones soon to come, for what was shown so far it simply connects to your router/or I guess a network switch by ethernet cable where it may access recorded programs on all your networked HR2X DVRs in the DECA cloud or ethernet. It then re-encodes them into a compressed format for transfer back through the router and then on to any PCs, MACs, Smartphones, ipads, etc. by WiFi or ethernet connection to the router or switch on your home network.

Unfortunately Edwards did not specify whether it only allows streaming or an actual transfer of video files, though it looks like both as far as I can tell.

Briefly only one Nomad is allowed per customer and the prerequisites for it are WHDVR service with internet connection, a DirecTV online account, and regrettably a "Nomad DVR service" account.

Which means it looks like your going to have to pay a monthly fee for it. 

But otherwise a great looking unit.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"HoTat2" said:


> Say folks;
> 
> Just a heads up;
> 
> Can't post any pictures or videos due to risk of copyright infringement, but if you have a valid user account to the site you can see the actual Nomad unit now being demonstrated in the latest (July 2011) DirecTV tech. training video hosted by Ray Edwards at www.satinstalltraining.com in the video downloads section.
> 
> A warning though, this a special site for training DirecTV techs and not really for public viewing, thus it is password protected.
> 
> But for those DirecTV techs. and others who for whatever reasons also have a logon account with them (or may locate logon info. by other means  ) you can download and view the video.
> 
> Note: for some reason the 680X480 res. .wmv video seems to be defective and you may have to download the smaller 320x240 one.
> 
> Very cool looking device Nomad. Looks outwardly like a BB DECA on steroids with three LED indicators on its right front, but only has a single ethernet port on the back along with what looks like a USB port and barrel power jack.
> 
> While Edwards only covered some details with more promised ones soon to come, for what was shown so far it simply connects to your router/or I guess a network switch by ethernet cable where it may access recorded programs on all your networked HR2X DVRs in the DECA cloud or ethernet. It then re-encodes them into a compressed format for transfer back through the router and then on to any PCs, MACs, Smartphones, ipads, etc. by WiFi or ethernet connection to the router or switch on your home network.
> 
> Unfortunately Edwards did not specify whether it only allows streaming or an actual transfer of video files, though it looks like both as far as I can tell.
> 
> Briefly only one Nomad is allowed per customer and the prerequisites for it are WHDVR service with internet connection, a DirecTV online account, and regrettably a "Nomad DVR service" account.
> 
> Which means it looks like your going to have to pay a monthly fee for it.
> 
> But otherwise a great looking unit.


Still hoping for just hardware charge since they req the whole home to use it. Just bc they req registered doesnt necc mean itll come with monthly fee. Hence the req of directv online account there. Thats free.
Just dont see the mkt push for a monthly fee when competitors like sling to an extent dont. Would be a bad move on directv since they req WHDVR too for it.


----------



## fireponcoal

Great info. Another fee, ah, expected I guess. I'll see... It would be easier for me to simply download a show/movie from bitme, passthepocorn or iTunes and view it on the device I wish minus a fee.. I can stream that from my computer to my phone with no extra fee other then my Internet service charge.. Transcodes even. 

Still love the idea of nomad though.


----------



## harsh

One might surmise that NOMAD is getting close if the training videos are being posted.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

That seems like the kind of opinion one might enjoy without the discomfort of thought.

Remember seeing picture of the HMC30 18 months ago? It's still not generally available.


----------



## Doug Brott

I do have a feeling DIRECTV will have a lot to showcase at CES this in January .. time will tell.


----------



## HoTat2

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Still hoping for just hardware charge since they req the whole home to use it.* Just bc they req registered doesnt necc mean itll come with monthly fee. Hence the req of directv online account there. Thats free.
> Just dont see the mkt push for a monthly fee when competitors like sling to an extent dont. Would be a bad move on directv since they req WHDVR too for it.*


I sincerely hope you're right because I really can't afford any more fees.

Perhaps I can live with an extra $1.00/mo., or something but no more.

BTW: a correction, the three LED indicator lights are on the unit's left side same as the BB DECA, not right.

As I said though it really looks like an oversized BB DECA without an F connector on the rear. Approximately 2 to 2 1/2 times in size.


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Would be a bad move on directv since they req WHDVR too for it.


Where there is an opportunity, there is a fee.

However... DISH Network has never charged a monthly fee for their PocketDISH feature that is very similar in function (though done entirely in DVR software). I agree with HoTat2 that giving it a name is a bad sign.


----------



## harsh

Stuart Sweet said:


> That seems like the kind of opinion one might enjoy without the discomfort of thought.
> 
> Remember seeing picture of the HMC30 18 months ago? It's still not generally available.


Your point is well taken as DIRECTV offered pictures and press releases of DIRECTV2Go as well as mockups of the previous iterations of the HMC. Pictures and trade show bowings have never been a particularly strong indicator of what's coming and/or when.

On the other hand, the existence of training videos demonstrates a much higher level of commitment in my mind.


----------



## harsh

Doug Brott said:


> I do have a feeling DIRECTV will have a lot to showcase at CES this in January .. time will tell.


It always seems a shame to wait until after the holiday season to release a new toy.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> Where there is an opportunity, there is a fee.
> 
> However... DISH Network has never charged a monthly fee for their PocketDISH feature that is very similar in function (though done entirely in DVR software). I agree with HoTat2 that giving it a name is a bad sign.


PocketDISH isn't a feature it's a handheld device you have to purchase for ≈$175ish and you're limited to only watching on its 4" screen.

IIUC Nomad correctly, you can watch your laptop or any other mobile device. It seems to be much different service from PocketDISH.

Mike


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> It always seems a shame to wait until after the holiday season to release a new toy.


Whew .. good thing I didn't say anything about a release date ..


----------



## Doug Brott

Mike Bertelson said:


> PocketDISH isn't a feature it's a handheld device you have to purchase for ≈$175ish and you're limited to only watching on its 4" screen.
> 
> IIUC Nomad correctly, you can watch your laptop or any other mobile device. It seems to be much different service from PocketDISH.
> 
> Mike


If there is a fee, one thing is for certain .. The market will decide what that fee is.


----------



## HoTat2

Mike Bertelson said:


> PocketDISH isn't a feature it's a handheld device you have to purchase for ≈$175ish and you're limited to only watching on its 4" screen.
> 
> *IIUC Nomad correctly, you can watch your laptop or any other mobile device. It seems to be much different service from PocketDISH.*Mike


Unless the training video is wrong, you are understanding correctly as the video demonstrates full screen displays on both PCs and Macs as well as Smartphone portable devices, iphones and Driods.

Although Edwards did not specifically mention ipads, I think its a safe assumption they will as well.


----------



## harsh

Mike Bertelson said:


> PocketDISH isn't a feature it's a handheld device you have to purchase for ≈$175ish and you're limited to only watching on its 4" screen.


There were three sizes offered initially and now there are others. The point is that the end result was similar: to be able to view content transferred digitally from your DVR.


----------



## mrjrussell

i watched the video

mrv is not required

MRV compatability is required that is he said


----------



## jacmyoung

"HoTat2" said:


> I sincerely hope you're right because I really can't afford any more fees.
> 
> Perhaps I can live with an extra $1.00/mo., or something but no more.
> 
> BTW: a correction, the three LED indicator lights are on the unit's left side same as the BB DECA, not right.
> 
> As I said though it really looks like an oversized BB DECA without an F connector on the rear. Approximately 2 to 2 1/2 times in size.


If there is a fee, I am afraid it will be more than $1.00.

While I like this service, I don't understand why only Dish streams over the Internet, every other company limits streaming to the home base, "analog loophole" notwithstanding since we know the new Sling adaptors are digital only.

Maybe Sling holds the Internet streaming (from a home based DVR) patent?


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> i watched the video
> 
> mrv is not required
> 
> MRV compatability is required that is he said


Just watched it again on that particular spot carefully multiple times and Edwards definitely said "MRV capability" not "compatibility."

Which I take to mean having MRV or WHDVR service. For how can an install really be "MRV capable" without having the actual service activated?


----------



## HoTat2

jacmyoung said:


> If there is a fee, I am afraid it will be more than $1.00. ...


I fear you are right, thus my sad smiley about it in my initial post.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> There were three sizes offered initially and now there are others. The point is that the end result was similar: to be able to view content transferred digitally from your DVR.


My point was the PocketDISH is a user purchased standalone device which allows certain DVRs to transfer to that device only. IMHO, that is why it doesn't have a separate fee.

Nomad will allow you transfer your recordings to seemingly *any* mobile device. The only thing similar is it will transfer recordings so in that one sense you're right...they're similar.

Mike


----------



## mrjrussell

how about some blackberry compatibility love


----------



## Hoosier205

"mrjrussell" said:


> how about some blackberry compatibility love


Wrong decade


----------



## TITAN_53

Can I get it on my old Nokia!? :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

The login information for that website is freely available. I won't post it or link it here, but it's not hard to find.

And I wouldn't say it looks like an "oversized DECA" I'd say it looks more like a router.


----------



## mattgwyther

HoTat2 said:


> Just watched it again on that particular spot carefully multiple times and Edwards definitely said "MRV capability" not "compatibility."
> 
> Which I take to mean having MRV or WHDVR service. For how can an install really be "MRV capable" without having the actual service activated?


Hmmm... what is the infrastructure needed for MRV??

I'll give you a hint (D**A) or (S*M)


----------



## jacmyoung

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> Nomad will allow you transfer your recordings to seemingly any mobile device.


I can see Nomad allow streaming of a recording from a DVR to a remote device, but not too sure if it will transfer (i.e. make a second copy) of the recording, that would not go well with "copy once" contents.


----------



## Doug Brott

mattgwyther said:


> Hmmm... what is the infrastructure needed for MRV??
> 
> I'll give you a hint (D**A) or (S*M)


Don't forget .. to have a complete MRV infrastructure, you also need whole home DVR service. Tease all you want, but without the WHDS, you ain't got MRV.


----------



## Drucifer

Any spec sheet on the Nomad in the vid?


----------



## HoTat2

Jeremy W said:


> The login information for that website is freely available. I won't post it or link it here, but it's not hard to find. ...


Yes I know, thus my cryptic reference to

"(or may locate logon info. by other means)" earlier in my initial post 



> ... And I wouldn't say it looks like an "oversized DECA" I'd say it looks more like a router.


Not just an oversized "DECA," but a specifically looks like an oversized "BB DECA," which looks like a mini-router anyhow.

It seems to me at least.


----------



## HoTat2

Drucifer said:


> Any spec sheet on the Nomad in the vid?


Nope ...

Though the host Ray Edwards said more info. is to come of course.

So maybe then.


----------



## Drucifer

Pretty pictures without the specs doesn't really give any REAL infro.

I'll go back to Sleep Mode.


----------



## Jeremy W

Drucifer said:


> Pretty pictures without the specs doesn't really give any REAL infro.


What specs do you need? It'll work with PCs, iPhone, and Android.


----------



## sigma1914

What PC media player program does it use? Or do you install software like DIRECTV2PC?


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> What PC media player program does it use? Or do you install software like DIRECTV2PC?


It'll require software on all platforms.


----------



## mrjrussell

Doug Brott said:


> Don't forget .. to have a complete MRV infrastructure, you also need whole home DVR service. Tease all you want, but without the WHDS, you ain't got MRV.


Mrv compaitible = green label swm and one hddvr with deca and band stops where required hr24 we know includes a deca a second hd or hddvr is not requrired to be "compatible".


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> Mrv compaitible = green label swm and one hddvr with deca and band stops where required hr24 we know includes a deca a second hd or hddvr is not requrired to be "compatible".


But to repeat again after replaying that part several times, Ray Edwards actual words at that point in the video were ...

*" ... the account must have MRV CAPABILITY"*, indicating WHDVR service. Not "compatibility."

Which would not have even fit the context. For how can an *account* actually have MRV compatibility?

A customer's installed *system* can be properly said to have MRV compatibility or some other such verbiage, but not account.


----------



## mrjrussell

The reason its required is the nomad must be connected to a router so it can get a IP. But like mrv they told us swm and deca was required. It works fine with ethernet. Also I've held nomad in my hands the current flavor is ethernet only.


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> The reason its required is the nomad must be connected to a router so it can get a IP. But like mrv they told us swm and deca was required. It works fine with ethernet. Also I've held nomad in my hands the current flavor is ethernet only.


Oh sure I realize Nomad will work with ethernet only setups as in those accounts which have MRV running in "unsupported" status. But it sounded as you were saying earlier that MRV or WHDVR service activation was not required on the account for Nomad to operate, only the MRV "compatibility" for it on ones setup.

But anyhow, on a much more important issue, did they happen to tell you whether or not Nomad will allow the actual transfer of video files to a computer or portable device for storage or is it only streaming as with Directv2PC?


----------



## Doug Brott

mrjrussell said:


> Mrv compaitible = green label swm and one hddvr with deca and band stops where required hr24 we know includes a deca a second hd or hddvr is not requrired to be "compatible".


You're getting stuck on semantics (which BTW, I still think you' are actually incorrect about, but that's neither here nor there) .. You missed something in my post ->


----------



## Doug Brott

HoTat2 said:


> Oh sure I realize Nomad will work with ethernet only setups as in those accounts which have MRV running in "unsupported" status. But it sounded as you were saying earlier that MRV or WHDVR service activation was not required on the account for Nomad to operate, only the MRV "compatibility" for it on ones setup.


He was .. His example included only a single unit. By default you cannot enable WHDS with only one unit. The minimum requirement is one HD DVR and on HD Receiver.


----------



## Laxguy

Doug Brott said:


> He was .. His example included only a single unit. By default you cannot enable WHDS with only one unit. The minimum requirement is one HD DVR and on HD Receiver.


I love semantics, and try to not get hung up on them. Try, do I.

Now I am imagining a guy with one old receiver in a studio apartment bragging that the has Whole House service!


----------



## mrjrussell

HoTat2 said:


> Oh sure I realize Nomad will work with ethernet only setups as in those accounts which have MRV running in "unsupported" status. But it sounded as you were saying earlier that MRV or WHDVR service activation was not required on the account for Nomad to operate, only the MRV "compatibility" for it on ones setup.
> 
> But anyhow, on a much more important issue, did they happen to tell you whether or not Nomad will allow the actual transfer of video files to a computer or portable device for storage or is it only streaming as with Directv2PC?


From what I have learned its a 16 gig internal storage device and a external usb for storage same as a dvr external disables internal.

This devices was originally conceived for offload that means it'll have to be stored somewhere.. Im interested no ones talked about MED or maybe I just missed it . I expect the nomad to have a MED enforced on all the files.

MRV compatible/ capable means you have a hddvr and a d12 you replace d12 with a hd or hddvr and you can turn on mrv with out any other installs or service calls and the hd can be drop shipped because you have a swm. They (Directv) want you to use it this way on a whdvr capable network ( with broadband deca or cckw). This is simple to setup, any 4th grade level educated customer can plug a cord from the nomad into the router.


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> From what I have learned its a 16 gig internal storage device and a external usb for storage same as a dvr external disables internal.
> 
> This devices was originally conceived for offload that means it'll have to be stored somewhere.. Im interested no ones talked about MED or maybe I just missed it . I expect the nomad to have a MED enforced on all the files.
> 
> MRV compatible/ capable means you have a hddvr and a d12 you replace d12 with a hd or hddvr and you can turn on mrv with out any other installs or service calls and the hd can be drop shipped because you have a swm. They (Directv) want you to use it this way on a whdvr capable network ( with broadband deca or cckw). This is simple to setup, any 4th grade level educated customer can plug a cord from the nomad into the router.


OK I give up, Google and acronym finder aren't helping me.

What's a MED?


----------



## sigma1914

mrjrussell said:


> From what I have learned its a 16 gig internal storage device and a external usb for storage same as a dvr external disables internal.
> 
> ...


So, could this mean that if we have a HR2x unit on it's last legs, then we could put the recordings we want salvaged on to NOMAD with an external USB 1TB drive? Then, put them on a PC or other device? But, not a new/replacement HR2x?


----------



## mrjrussell

med is the 
maximum entitlement date listed on the playlist. This is how long you can keep it on your dvr before it auto deletes If you play somthing from channel 1100 youll see it puts a MED int he playlist next to the title.

I would have expected directv to add this to the nomad. 


As far as external storage capacity limits ... my understanding of the data i was provided was its 2TB 


You can not transfer back, also the video is down coverted from original it would look probably look VHS on playback if you could. 

Just do what I did build a hdmi/ hdcp mini itx computer with a 2tb sata drive  its great for playback of svcds and web surfing on the tv with a wireless keyboard and mouse


----------



## DogLover

"mrjrussell" said:


> med is the
> maximum entitlement date listed on the playlist. This is how long you can keep it on your dvr before it auto deletes If you play somthing from channel 1100 youll see it puts a MED int he playlist next to the title.
> 
> I would have expected directv to add this to the nomad.
> 
> As far as external storage capacity limits ... my understanding of the data i was provided was its 2TB
> 
> You can not transfer back, also the video is down coverted from original it would look probably look VHS on playback if you could.
> 
> Just do what I did build a hdmi/ hdcp mini itx computer with a 2tb sata drive  its great for playback of svcds and web surfing on the tv with a wireless keyboard and mouse


So that is what is called the expiration date on our playlists? Which brings up something that I hadn't thought of: what about PPV and VOD recordings? My first thought is tht PPV would not be allowed to be transferred to Nomad. After all, if the studios want you to pay for only 24 hours worth of viewing, then you would think they'd object to anything that can circumvent that restriction. With the free (included) VOD that is available for subscribing to various channels, you would think that they would also need to transfer the expiration date, or block those recordings from Nomad.

Luckily the vast majority of my recordings don't fall into that category. I imagine that's true for most of their customers. However, it would be nice if they could find a way to include that functionality.


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> med is the
> maximum entitlement date listed on the playlist. This is how long you can keep it on your dvr before it auto deletes If you play somthing from channel 1100 youll see it puts a MED int he playlist next to the title.
> 
> I would have expected directv to add this to the nomad.
> 
> As far as external storage capacity limits ... my understanding of the data i was provided was its 2TB
> 
> You can not transfer back, also the video is down coverted from original it would look probably look VHS on playback if you could.
> 
> Just do what I did build a hdmi/ hdcp mini itx computer with a 2tb sata drive  its great for playback of svcds and web surfing on the tv with a wireless keyboard and mouse


OK got it, thanks;

So it seems Nomad will compress and then store video files, but will it then allow the actual transfer of the files to a computer or portable device in a "TIVO-to-go" like feature or only permit streaming at that point from the Nomad unit?


----------



## mrjrussell

I did not know it would stream .. news to me but still cool


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> I did not know it would stream .. news to me but still cool


No I was asking YOU if you knew which one it is, transfer or streaming? Or does it allow both?

Because I'm (and many others of course) hoping for an actual transfer capability of the TV program files from Nomad to other platforms so they can take the programs with them out of the home for later viewing during travel or some other outing.

While streaming would be a nice addition, I'd consider Nomad a tremendous waste if that's all it did. As it would then be little more than an extension of the current DirecTV2PC feature.


----------



## mrjrussell

Right now I know its is offload and playback from third party devices with directvs software ie ipad ipod laptop.. I'm hoping for Blackberry support but not holding my breath as the directv uppers are apple lovers. 

I also know it converts at a 1:1 conversion speed and that the conversion counts as a mrv stream so that dvr cant mrv share and share to the nomad at the same time. Also its a queue it up and let it run device so whent he hddvr is done sharing it starts to convert again. ( for my house this means when every ones alseep lol)

There are many questions to be answered the hrtivo can do dod but not mrv.. will it work with nomad ?


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Yup still waiting on the android version here of the ipad app.....


----------



## Doug Brott

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yup still waiting on the android version here of the ipad app.....


Doubt it will be called an iPad app.


----------



## Alan Gordon

harsh said:


> I agree with HoTat2 that giving it a name is a bad sign.


There's a DIRECTV on DEMAND line item with a $0.00 charge listed under my services on DirecTV.com.

I personally feel that there WILL be a charge for NOMAD (which is why I will probably never _GET_ NOMAD), but I thought I'd bring it up nonetheless...

~Alan


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Alan Gordon" said:


> There's a DIRECTV on DEMAND line item with a $0.00 charge listed under my services on DirecTV.com.
> 
> I personally feel that there WILL be a charge for NOMAD (which is why I will probably never GET NOMAD), but I thought I'd bring it up nonetheless...
> 
> ~Alan


Yup the ipad app was free too no? That has a name. Also the reg directv app is free.
Naming it means nothing in terms of if they will charge for it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yup the ipad app was free too no? That has a name. Also the reg directv app is free.
> Naming it means nothing in terms of if they will charge for it.


The iPad app is not a service... nor are the iPhone/Android apps, so I wouldn't put them in the same category.

As I said, I feel there will be a fee associated with it, but I wanted to bring up the fact that DirecTV puts DoD in your services with a $0.00 charge even though it's a free service to everyone.

~Alan


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Alan Gordon" said:


> The iPad app is not a service... nor are the iPhone/Android apps, so I wouldn't put them in the same category.
> 
> As I said, I feel there will be a fee associated with it, but I wanted to bring up the fact that DirecTV puts DoD in your services with a $0.00 charge even though it's a free service to everyone.
> 
> ~Alan


If you dont think its a service then you are walking a very fine line with what is and isnt imho. The service is allowing you to remote record, and even control your boxes.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> If you dont think its a service then you are walking a very fine line with what is and isnt imho. The service is allowing you to remote record, and even control your boxes.




Somehow I knew somebody would comment on that particular statement... 

I don't (_personally_) deem it as one. I'll leave it at that... 

~Alan


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Alan Gordon" said:


> Somehow I knew somebody would comment on that particular statement...
> 
> I don't (personally) deem it as one. I'll leave it at that...
> 
> ~Alan


Yeah because otherwise they could put remote management/scheduling in the "service" line items and include all the apps they have for it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah because otherwise they could put remote management/scheduling in the "service" line items and include all the apps they have for it.


Absolutely!

I still feel there will be a monthly fee. If it was a one-time fee, with an WHDVR requirement, I'd get NOMAD, but I don't travel, so the ability to watch TV on my smartphone or iPad is not enough to justify any added expense to my already too expensive monthly bill... 

~Alan


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Alan Gordon" said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> I still feel there will be a monthly fee. If it was a one-time fee, with an WHDVR requirement, I'd get NOMAD, but I don't travel, so the ability to watch TV on my smartphone or iPad is not enough to justify any added expense to my already too expensive monthly bill...
> 
> ~Alan


Which is kinda why I doubt there will be a fee past WHDVR for it. Dont see the market for it that huge for people that would pay a monthly fee for it and use it enough to warrant the monthly fee assoc. A lot of ppl do travel for work but they are by no means the majority of the customer base if I had to guess. 
Id assume there would be most users who would use this a few times every other month if that.

Guess we all will find out sometime....*soon* lol


----------



## mrjrussell

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> If you dont think its a service then you are walking a very fine line with what is and isnt imho. The service is allowing you to remote record, and even control your boxes.


DVR service allows for remote control and recording

cinemaplus allows for a customer to download DOD content


----------



## djrobx

> Which is kinda why I doubt there will be a fee past WHDVR for it.


DirecTV's current management seems too greedy for that. I honestly don't think they would put the effort into this feature's development if they weren't expecting to recoup the costs in additional monthly fees, just like WHDVR.


----------



## HoTat2

mrjrussell said:


> Right now I know its is *offload *and playback from third party devices with directvs software ie ipad ipod laptop ...


OK, but just to clarify, by "offload" you mean from storage on the Nomad to the computer or portable device, correct?


----------



## HoTat2

djrobx said:


> DirecTV's current management seems too greedy for that. I honestly don't think they would put the effort into this feature's development if they weren't expecting to recoup the costs in additional monthly fees, just like WHDVR.


Not to be cynical, but unfortunately I think you are correct. We live in an era where corporate organizations are trying to charge for everything and to seemingly try to squeeze every dollar they can out of the consumer.

Sgt. Slaughter makes a fine argument from the standpoint of ethics and reason, but I really don't think the bean counters at DirecTV and most other companies care much about those qualities these days.

But one can aways hope ...


----------



## mrjrussell

HoTat2 said:


> OK, but just to clarify, by "offload" you mean from storage on the Nomad to the computer or portable device, correct?


yes the understandign i have is that the 16gig internal memory is for the storage of the content as it converted but can be taken off the internal card..

Also the conversion counts as a stream so if your using the hddvr to watch somthing across the network then it waits and waits and keeps trying to restart the conversion. When I say restart, I mean restart from the begining of the conversion. Not start where it left off.


----------



## jacmyoung

HoTat2 said:


> OK, but just to clarify, by "offload" you mean from storage on the Nomad to the computer or portable device, correct?


What Dish did was to "move" (instead of copying) the recorded content from one device to another, so not to violate the "copy once" requirement of many contents. The name "Nomad" implies remote usage, away from home. So "offload" makes sense if it must also obey the same requirement.

If that is what Nomad can do, I definitely see a service charge.


----------



## jacmyoung

mrjrussell said:


> Also the conversion counts as a stream so if your using the hddvr to watch somthing across the network then it waits and waits and keeps trying to restart the conversion. When I say restart, I mean restart from the begining of the conversion. Not start where it left off.


That process sounds a lot like the "move" I mentioned above. Once the recorded content is converted and moved onto Nomad, it no longer remains on the DVR, is that what you are saying?

Otherwise I don't see why the two processes cannot be performed simultaneously.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> That process sounds a lot like the "move" I mentioned above. Once the recorded content is converted and moved onto Nomad, it no longer remains on the DVR, is that what you are saying?
> 
> Otherwise I don't see why the two processes cannot be performed simultaneously.


What two processes? Watching a recording and sending a recording to Nomad? The DVRs only allow one outgoing stream, so if you're watching a recording, that one stream isn't available to send a recording to Nomad.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> What two processes? Watching a recording and sending a recording to Nomad? The DVRs only allow one outgoing stream, so if you're watching a recording, that one stream isn't available to send a recording to Nomad.


Seemed to me "transfer" or "offload" is not just "streaming", if it means making a copy on a mobile device. If so why the limitation of on the same home wifi network for playback?

If downconversion is involved in offload, then it may not be in conflict with copy once. One may only placyback at 480i native resolution but at least can do so away from home.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> If so why the limitation of on the same home wifi network for playback?


While I don't know the details behind this decision .. Consider this ..

-) Coding is easier if remote playback is always either 1 on none. There is no balancing act to deal with

-) CPU and bandwidth considerations (per box) are always consistent .. Either no usage or one steam of usage.

Remember, that in addition to the disk/network spooling outbound to another box, the additional things could be happening at the same time ...

* Watching a recording from another box (network bandwidth)
* Recording a vod (network and hdd bandwidth)
* Recording 2 things (hdd bandwidth)

So at any given moment, 5 things could be going on to influence the system resources. The decision was most likely made to be able to provide the service while maintaining some level of consistency.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"mrjrussell" said:


> DVR service allows for remote control and recording
> 
> cinemaplus allows for a customer to download DOD content


But before it included it you could of made the same comment about that feature and they could of offered remote recording/management as a service. But they didnt...


----------



## jacmyoung

"Doug Brott" said:


> While I don't know the details behind this decision .. Consider this ..
> 
> -) Coding is easier if remote playback is always either 1 on none. There is no balancing act to deal with
> 
> -) CPU and bandwidth considerations (per box) are always consistent .. Either no usage or one steam of usage.
> 
> Remember, that in addition to the disk/network spooling outbound to another box, the additional things could be happening at the same time ...
> 
> * Watching a recording from another box (network bandwidth)
> * Recording a vod (network and hdd bandwidth)
> * Recording 2 things (hdd bandwidth)
> 
> So at any given moment, 5 things could be going on to influence the system resources. The decision was most likely made to be able to provide the service while maintaining some level of consistency.


What you said makes sense for "live streaming" purpose, but once the recorded program is off-loaded from the DVR to Nomad, then to a mobile device, i.e. stored on the mobile device, it should be allowed to be played back away from home.

This is to assume mrjrussel is correct Nomad will let mobile devices to store recorded contents.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> What you said makes sense for "live streaming" purpose, but once the recorded program is off-loaded from the DVR to Nomad, then to a mobile device, i.e. stored on the mobile device, it should be allowed to be played back away from home.


If it is stored on the mobile device, which does seem to be the case, then it will allow playback away from home.

I don't think you're understanding that, to the DVR, sending a program to Nomad looks just like sending a program to an MRV client. It's the same process, and so it's subject to the same restrictions.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> If it is stored on the mobile device, which does seem to be the case, then it will allow playback away from home.


This is what I don't understand, everyone seems to say Nomad will load programs onto mobile devices, which I agree it means one should be able to play them back on the road, in fact the word "nomad" implies such.

Yet every statement from either a DirecTV rep or a semi DirecTV source says it will be used on the same home wifi network.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> This is what I don't understand, everyone seems to say Nomad will load programs onto mobile devices, which I agree it means one should be able to play them back on the road, in fact the word "nomad" implies such.
> 
> Yet every statement from either a DirecTV rep or a semi DirecTV source says it will be used on the same home wifi network.


The Nomad device itself lives on the home network. It's useless off the home network.


----------



## mrjrussell

Jeremy W said:


> The Nomad device itself lives on the home network. It's useless off the home network.


.

Directv support agent use scripts and refferance in a huge data base. All large companys run support like this. The problem is that the informaion the company has decided to make availible is put on a page and is very cookie cutter for copany intrest. The current information is that it is a device that connect to Your router " home network ". If any one is miss directed by that statement, thay are reading into it to much


----------



## Alan Gordon

So... I had the opportunity to take a look at the video.

The device looked different than I expected it too (after reading descriptions from the video).

I also thought the screen showed on the iPad looked interesting...

~Alan


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> The Nomad device itself lives on the home network. It's useless off the home network.


DirecTV has indicated in several occasions Nomad will allow streaming of the recorded content from a DVR to a mobile device connected to the same home network. Such capability can certainly be extended to the outside of the home network, technically.

Limiting it to the same home network may just be a policy decision.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Limiting it to the same home network may just be a policy decision.


No. Nomad is dealing with the full bitrate data stream from the DVR. Having it outside the home network would be impossible.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Jeremy W said:


> No. Nomad is dealing with the full bitrate data stream from the DVR. Having it outside the home network would be impossible.


Re-read his post again...

~Alan


----------



## Jeremy W

Alan Gordon said:


> Re-read his post again...
> 
> ~Alan


I see what he's saying now. He took my usage of "limiting it to the home network" and twisted it around into something else, which I wasn't addressing at all.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> No. Nomad is dealing with the full bitrate data stream from the DVR. Having it outside the home network would be impossible.


Full birate data streaming from the DVR to Nomad, or Nomad to a mobile device, or both? According to mrjrussel, downconversion will take place, assume it takes place from Nomad to the mobile device. My question had to do with DirecTV's statements about allowing people to stream recorded programming on their mobile devices.

Frankly I don't really care what happens between my HDDVR and Nomad, as much as what happens to my mobile devices such as my smartphones and iPad.


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Full birate data streaming from the DVR to Nomad, or Nomad to a mobile device, or both?


DVR to Nomad.


jacmyoung said:


> Frankly I don't really care what happens between my HDDVR and Nomad


I understand that now, but that's what we were discussing.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> DVR to Nomad.
> 
> I understand that now, but that's what we were discussing.


So no one really knows how will it work between Nomad and a mobile device, even though streaming to mobile devices is the benefit DirecTV has been talking about with regard to Nomad, not how Nomad works with the DVRs?


----------



## taz291819

jacmyoung said:


> So no one really knows how will it work between Nomad and a mobile device, even though streaming to mobile devices is the benefit DirecTV has been talking about with regard to Nomad, not how Nomad works with the DVRs?


That seems to be the case. Though, the Nomad device should do some sort of re-encode in real-time. It's basically a sling box.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

taz291819 said:


> That seems to be the case. Though, the Nomad device should do some sort of re-encode in real-time. It's basically a sling box.


How do we know it's basically a sling box? :scratchin

Mike


----------



## rahlquist

jacmyoung said:


> DirecTV has indicated in several occasions Nomad will allow streaming of the recorded content from a DVR to a mobile device connected to the same home network. Such capability can certainly be extended to the outside of the home network, technically.
> 
> Limiting it to the same home network may just be a policy decision.


A lot of people theorized this same extension of use with MRV and Directv2Pc. Did that ever get working?


----------



## HoTat2

jacmyoung said:


> So no one really knows how will it work between Nomad and a mobile device, even though streaming to mobile devices is the benefit DirecTV has been talking about with regard to Nomad, not how Nomad works with the DVRs?


Nothing on the video illustrated any streaming to portable devices outside the home network, like over the internet ala sling box. But only to devices, ethernet or WiFi, on the home network.

And why in the world would there be any interest in streaming a re-encoded, down-rezzed, image to computers and portables on the home network when you're at home anyhow where you can watch the full resolution TV recording on a TV set?

Therefore I can't help but believe Nomad will allow the actual transfer of its stored re-encoded files to a computer or potable as a TIVO-to-go like feature.


----------



## jacmyoung

"HoTat2" said:


> Nothing on the video illustrated any streaming to portable devices outside the home network, like over the internet ala sling box. But only to devices, ethernet or WiFi, on the home network.
> 
> And why in the world would there be any interest in streaming a re-encoded, down-rezzed, image to computers and portables on the home network when you're at home anyhow where you can watch the full resolution TV recording on a TV set?
> 
> Therefore I can't help but believe Nomad will allow the actual transfer of its stored re-encoded files to a computer or potable as a TIVO-to-go like feature.


I can accept some downconversion for playback on a mobile device with limited screen size.

I also follow your logic but often times logic does not prevail. The programmers might not like to see DirecTV stream their protected content over the Internet. Or as I speculated, could be that Sling is holding a patent on streaming.


----------



## HoTat2

jacmyoung said:


> I can accept some downconversion for playback on a mobile device with limited screen size. ...


Sure, while viewing over the internet away from home traveling or some other as with a Slingbox, but while sitting at home with your receivers and TVs available?

Why would someone want like this that's little more than the current DirecTV2PC?



> ... I also follow your logic but often times logic does not prevail. The programmers might not like to see DirecTV stream their protected content over the Internet. Or as I speculated, could be that Sling is holding a patent on streaming.


Illogic notwithstanding, I can't see DirecTV going to the time and expense producing something that pointless. Streaming from the Nomad as an additional feature to re-encoded file transfer fine, but as the sole one? :nono2:


----------



## jacmyoung

"HoTat2" said:


> Illogic notwithstanding, I can't see DirecTV going to the time and expense producing something that pointless. Streaming from the Nomad as an additional feature to re-encoded file transfer fine, but as the sole one? :nono2:


Again logic may not be the only answer. Sometimes they do it simply because everyone else is doing it, they don't want the others say hey we have it, but DirecTV does not


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Again logic may not be the only answer. Sometimes they do it simply because everyone else is doing it, they don't want the others say hey we have it, but DirecTV does not


Why do you insist on overthinking everything? The simplest answer is almost always the correct one.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Jeremy W" said:


> Why do you insist on overthinking everything? The simplest answer is almost always the correct one.


What is it then?


----------



## Doug Brott

Mike White references what is likely the NOMAD in this video from earlier this year:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=3000007289&play=1

While getting reamed by Julia Boorstin about the lack of streaming, they talk about streaming being available by 2013 (40% of homes) (I predict earlier based on how hard Julia came at Mike ). Additionally, they talk about being able to "move content onto a device later this year" (4:15). The idea (according to Mike) is to be able to watch while on planes and trains. Also automobiles if you're not driving. Essentially a take it with you approach.

So his three stage approach appears to be (last one not really mentioned directly):

1) iPad app for browse and discovery
2) Move content onto a device (that's where the Nomad comes in)
3) Streaming - No guarantees, but the likely progression is also the Nomad

That video, to me is telling .. The tidbits on timing are "later this year (2011)" for stage 2 and 2013 for Stage 3. Additionally, there was a point where Mike said something about "earlier, if customers wanted" (paraphrased). It didn't sound like a true commitment, but did sound like a "we'll see what we can do" type comment.


----------



## Beerstalker

From what I understand is you will somehow tell the Nomad to take a recording from your DVR A and convert it into a MP4 file (or some other similar file). While the Nomad is doing that DVR A will be unavailable for streaming any shows to any other DVRs or receivers. You will still be able to watch shows locally on DVR A during this process, or stream shows from DVR B to DVR A if you want. Pretty much just like Whole Home DVR works now if you pretend the Nomad device is another DVR. 

If you are already using DVR A to stream a show to DVR B then you won't be able to start streaming a show to the Nomad.

Evidently, upon further reading you may be able to force DVR A to stop streaming to the Nomad device and stream to DVR B instead, but by doing so you will have to completely restart the transfer to the Nomad over again (it might start again automatically) after you are done watching on DVR B.

Once the Nomad device is finished streaming the content it will have created an MP4 file (or something similar) that is stored on the internal memory, or USB drive plugged into the nomad. That recording can then be transferred over to your Laptop/iPad/iPhone/Android device. You can then take those devices anywhere you want and watch those files most likely using some kind of DirecTV Nomad video player app.

I still don't think that the Nomad will actually do any kind of direct streaming of recordings to any other devices, whether you are in your home or not. It is not a replacement for DirecTV2PC that works on more devices. I believe that will come later on, possibly through an update to Nomad, or through a totally different setup (I personally think it will be more like netflix streaming where DirecTV will have servers that can send their content to portable devices or computers).

I personally believe that the Nomad device should be a one time purchase, and no fees should be involved, but I doubt that will happen. Most likely we will see a new fee for it probably in line with the $3 MRV fee (which I also despise).

PPV movies will most likely not be able to be transferred at all, if they can they will have to figure out a way to keep the 24 hour rule in effect, which I suppose they may be able to do with their DirecTV Nomad player app. PPV events like UFC fights that don't have expiration dates might be more lenient.

This of course is all my opinion from what I have read here and a couple other places. I could be way off. I haven't even seen the video some of you have seen since I don't have the password, but from what I have read from posts on here everything seems to fit in with my current guess.

If anyone knows that I am wrong with my guesses please feel free to post and correct me.


----------



## jacmyoung

If you are right, I wonder why DirecTV continues to say it is for use on the same home network? Once the program is transferred to my phone, does the program check my location first before it will play?


----------



## Jeremy W

jacmyoung said:


> Once the program is transferred to my phone, does the program check my location first before it will play?


No.


----------



## jacmyoung

Jeremy W said:


> No.


If so I should be able to play away from the home network?


----------



## TITAN_53

jacmyoung said:


> If you are right, I wonder why DirecTV continues to say it is for use on the same home network?


I would think they are just talking about the Nomad hardware. It stays on your network.


----------



## HoTat2

jacmyoung said:


> If you are right, I wonder why DirecTV continues to say it is for* use on the same home network? * Once the program is transferred to my phone, does the program check my location first before it will play?


I think DirecTV's reference to Nomad's exclusive use on the home network means all of the Nomad unit's functionality takes place only between other devices on the same home network.

Whether it's receiving MRV streams from DVRs for re-encoding or off-loading them to computers or portable clients, it all takes place on the same network. For instance Nomad cannot perform things outside the network such as transfer files over the internet to clients.

But this does not mean that once Nomad transfers files to clients they must remain on the same home network to play them. As I said Nomad's function should be similar to TIVO's TTG service.


----------



## jacmyoung

"HoTat2" said:


> I think DirecTV's reference to Nomad's exclusive use on the home network means all of the Nomad unit's functionality takes place only between other devices on the same home network.
> 
> Whether it's receiving MRV streams from DVRs for re-encoding or off-loading them to computers or portable clients, it all takes place on the same network. For instance Nomad cannot perform things outside the network such as transfer files over the internet to clients.
> 
> But this does not mean that once Nomad transfers files to clients they must remain on the same home network to play them. As I said Nomad's function should be similar to TIVO's TTG service.


I didn't read DirecTV's statements this way but hope you are correct.


----------



## spartanstew

HoTat2 said:


> I think DirecTV's reference to Nomad's exclusive use on the home network means all of the Nomad unit's functionality takes place only between other devices on the same home network.
> 
> Whether it's receiving MRV streams from DVRs for re-encoding or off-loading them to computers or portable clients, it all takes place on the same network. For instance Nomad cannot perform things outside the network such as transfer files over the internet to clients.
> 
> But this does not mean that once Nomad transfers files to clients they must remain on the same home network to play them. As I said Nomad's function should be similar to TIVO's TTG service.


Ding.


----------



## Beerstalker

Because like the others have said the Nomad unit itself stays hooked up to your home network. You don't take it with you when you leave the house. It's not like a jump drive you hook up to your phone. It's like a network storage device that stays in your home and you can transfer the MP4 files from it to your phone. Then those files are on your phone and can be accessed from anywhere while you have it on your phone until you delete it. I think this is where you keep getting confused. The Nomad device itself is not a portable device. It is the device that transcodes your recordings into a format that can be used on your other portable devices. Kind of like using CloneDVDMobile or Handbrake to create a MP4 file from a DVD on your computer so you can put it on your phone. Only this is going to be able to do it without a computer (I assume) and it will be copies of your DirecTV recordings instead of DVDs.


----------



## taz291819

Meh, now I'm not excited. What if I'm out of town and want to watch a show that was recorded 1 hour ago? Sorry, gotta wait until I get home, and then transfer it to my phone. By then, I'll just watch it on the big screen.


----------



## spartanstew

taz291819 said:


> Meh, now I'm not excited. What if I'm out of town and want to watch a show that was recorded 1 hour ago? Sorry, gotta wait until I get home, and then transfer it to my phone. By then, I'll just watch it on the big screen.


Or watch it on your next trip.


----------



## jacmyoung

"Beerstalker" said:


> Because like the others have said the Nomad unit itself stays hooked up to your home network. You don't take it with you when you leave the house. It's not like a jump drive you hook up to your phone. It's like a network storage device that stays in your home and you can transfer the MP4 files from it to your phone. Then those files are on your phone and can be accessed from anywhere while you have it on your phone until you delete it. I think this is where you keep getting confused. The Nomad device itself is not a portable device. It is the device that transcodes your recordings into a format that can be used on your other portable devices. Kind of like using CloneDVDMobile or Handbrake to create a MP4 file from a DVD on your computer so you can put it on your phone. Only this is going to be able to do it without a computer (I assume) and it will be copies of your DirecTV recordings instead of DVDs.


I assume you are responding to me, either I am confused, or DirecTV is trying to confuse me by saying Nomad will allow streaming to mobile devices "connected to the same home network." They said so on several occasions already.


----------



## loveshockey

taz291819 said:


> Meh, now I'm not excited. What if I'm out of town and want to watch a show that was recorded 1 hour ago? Sorry, gotta wait until I get home, and then transfer it to my phone. By then, I'll just watch it on the big screen.


Im wondering if Nomad could send the file(not stream) through the internet?

ie, could you download it onto a laptop to play on it or your phone?
or download to your phone?


----------



## Jeremy W

loveshockey said:


> Im wondering if Nomad could send the file(not stream) through the internet?


Highly doubtful. ISPs would not appreciate that one bit.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> Highly doubtful. ISPs would not appreciate that one bit.


Few ISPs would care not a whit, as long as they are getting paid for throughput.
Now, content providers- and hence DirecTV- might very well care.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> Few ISPs would care not a whit, as long as they are getting paid for throughput.


:lol: ok.


----------



## harsh

As most of the evidence points to the function of the NOMAD being strictly limited to the home LAN, sending the file over the Internet is necessarily a two step process and if there is any kind of DRM, it won't likely be possible to do that either.


----------



## mrjrussell

idk if this has been brought up but nomad is siad to not work on jail broke Iphones so it must run a app on the phone to play the files.


----------



## Doug Brott

mrjrussell said:


> idk if this has been brought up but nomad is siad to not work on jail broke Iphones so it must run a app on the phone to play the files.


The Nomad hasn't been released yet ...


----------



## Jeremy W

Doug Brott said:


> The Nomad hasn't been released yet ...


I didn't see where mrjrussell said or implied that it has?


----------



## billsharpe

Jeremy W said:


> I didn't see where mrjrussell said or implied that it has?


I guess the question is "Who said that Nomad wouldn't work with a jail-broken iPhone?"


----------



## Jeremy W

billsharpe said:


> I guess the question is "Who said that Nomad wouldn't work with a jail-broken iPhone?"


That I can't say, but it certainly wouldn't be the first app of this type to have this restriction. TWC's app has the same restriction, although it was cracked in short order. I imagine DirecTV's app would meet the same fate. They're stuck working within Apple's framework, while the hackers are not. The hackers have a significant upper hand.


----------



## puffnstuff

Just read there's a teaser page up. Can't look at it here at work.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

puffnstuff said:


> Just read there's a teaser page up. Can't look at it here at work.


Yup sure is.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/nomad/faq

no info just shows the box we've seen already which looks like a little router in a sense, and then shows photos of Manning on a PC, iPhone, and iPad below the HR box with Nomad, and the words "Coming Soon"

Really hope this isn't something that is specifically going to work with only ipads and iphones besides laptops. Really getting sick of the iOS following when its clear Android has more market share than Apple yet still gets the cold shoulder. But that discussion is for another thread on its own.


----------



## Bearxor

Hopefully this comes out in enough time for me to return my slingbox.


----------



## wco81

Android fragmentations probably. Heard that a lot of devices can't run Netflix.

Besides, tablets are probably more important for video streaming than phones and there, iPad so far has the biggest market share.


----------



## dpeters11

wco81 said:


> Android fragmentations probably. Heard that a lot of devices can't run Netflix.
> 
> Besides, tablets are probably more important for video streaming than phones and there, iPad so far has the biggest market share.


The Netflix issue was because of Android DRM fragmentation. Not all devices had it. I'd expect the same thing to happen with Nomad. No DRM, no Nomad.


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> no info just shows the box we've seen already which looks like a little router in a sense, and then shows photos of Manning on a *PC*, iPhone, and iPad below the HR box with Nomad, and the words "Coming Soon"
> 
> Really hope this isn't something that is specifically going to work with only ipads and iphones besides laptops.


That's not a PC, that's a Mac.  They're showing nothing but Apple products.


----------



## lincolnnellie

Jeremy W said:


> That's not a PC, that's a Mac.  They're showing nothing but Apple products.




So a Mac isn't a personal computer running on intel hardware?

No way that Android will be ignored. I am definitely looking forward to the Nomad project being released.


----------



## Jeremy W

lincolnnellie said:


> So a Mac isn't a personal computer running on intel hardware?


Did you miss the  emoticon?


----------



## man_rob

This device would need to be fairly inexpensive, with no monthly fee for me to be interested. There's just so much _free_ content available to keep me entertained while on the go. I can watch so many network programs (cable and broadcast) on my phone, tablet, and laptop already. I've stopped DVRing them for that reason. It will soon get to the point where I might just drop pay TV all together, as so many of my friends have done.


----------



## Jeremy W

man_rob said:


> This device would need to be fairly inexpensive, with no monthly fee for me to be interested.


It'll probably be fairly inexpensive, but there will definitely be a monthly fee. On top of the MRV fee, which will also be required.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Jeremy W said:


> It'll probably be fairly inexpensive, but there will definitely be a monthly fee. On top of the MRV fee, which will also be required.


less your in the trial itself i still not so sure about this. doesn't make much sense as you can do the same pretty much with other stuff for free. Don't see enough people past this forum wanting to cough up monthly $ just for transport of shows...
Including it in WHDVR would be the right business choice imho, but if they choose to charge for it #'s will show in the end who is right.


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> less your in the trial itself i still not so sure about this.


I watched DirecTV's official training video.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Jeremy W said:


> I watched DirecTV's official training video.


coulda sworn his wording was not clear there. least thats what i remember when i watched it long ago.


----------



## man_rob

I have a Slingbox that doesn't require a monthly fee, but it's so much easier to just watch free online episodes that I rarely use it.


----------



## DavidMi

I don't see the point of nmad if you can't stream live television to your devices. 

Might as well just get a sling box.


----------



## sigma1914

man_rob said:


> I have a Slingbox that doesn't require a monthly fee, but it's so much easier to just watch free online episodes that I rarely use it.


The great thing about NOMAD is it's optional. DirecTV isn't forcing it on us. It's also not for everyone, but many people will enjoy it. There's also tons of shows not available online and easily accessible where NOMAD will come in handy.


----------



## man_rob

sigma1914 said:


> The great thing about NOMAD is it's optional. DirecTV isn't forcing it on us. It's also not for everyone, but many people will enjoy it. There's also tons of shows not available online and easily accessible where NOMAD will come in handy.


I didn't say they were forcing it on anyone. I just said there is already so much online content that I can already spend hours and hours watching free cable and broadcast network programming. Plus, Slingbox will do the same thing with no monthly fees. Nomad just doesn't seem worth paying a monthly fee to get.


----------



## Jeremy W

man_rob said:


> Nomad just doesn't seem worth paying a monthly fee to get.


Especially with the pre-planning it requires. You have to transfer content to your device while you're at home, and transferring content to Nomad from your DVR must be done in real time. So an hour show will take an hour to transfer.


----------



## sigma1914

Jeremy W said:


> Especially with the pre-planning it requires. You have to transfer content to your device while you're at home, and transferring content to Nomad from your DVR must be done in real time. So an hour show will take an hour to transfer.


It's real time? I thought it was transferring over your network like file transferring?


----------



## man_rob

Jeremy W said:


> Especially with the pre-planning it requires. You have to transfer content to your device while you're at home, and transferring content to Nomad from your DVR must be done in real time. So an hour show will take an hour to transfer.


If that is correct, then really forget it. I bought a Sandisk memory-card video recorder for about $50 that will do the same thing with no monthly fees.


----------



## mikela

I hope it is like file transfer and it has gigabit connectivity. I need to be able to download shows to my devices and watch while on the go. And also download shows while away from home. Not streaming.


----------



## Beerstalker

I'm not sure that we know it's real time yet do we? I know it's going to be streamed over DECA, but I thought maybe they could stream it at a higher rate. Either way it is going to require transcoding and most likely downconverting, so it will take a while.

Also while you will have to do this ahead of time, I have to believe that you would be able to do them well ahead of time and not in a rush. Say every night you tell a bunch of recordings to transcode and just save them all on your computer in iTunes. Whenever you are getting ready for a trip you just hook up your iPhone or iPad and sync over whatever recordings you want. You don't really have to do all the transcoding right then.

Personally though I prefer this model to streaming. People like me with poor internet options can't take advantage of streaming. Not the fact that you can't always get internet service on your portable devices everywhere you are going to want to use it. And even if you can get to the internet if you are using 3G it's probably not going to be the greatest quality and it will eat through your data plan pretty quick. Even with the unlimited plans most of the companies are telling people that they will throttle down their speed if they use too much bandwidth.

I just wish it was out now. I'm going on a work trip the week of Labor Day and would love to be able to take some of my recordings with me on my iPhone to watch in the hotel (I have one of the cords so I can hook it up to the TV). It'd be much easier than me having to pack a DVD/Blu-ray player and a bunch of discs to take with.


----------



## SParker

I was hoping Nomad would allow live streaming. So for my uses it would be an epic fail.


----------



## sigma1914

SParker said:


> I was hoping Nomad would allow live streaming. So for my uses it would be an epic fail.


If you want live streaming, then buy Slingbox.


----------



## Beerstalker

For streaming I'm fairly certain you are just going to use an app that streams directly from DirecTV (or the channels) servers. Just like we do now with HBO, Max, CNN, Cartoon Network, etc.

I'm thinking that DirecTV will eventually come out with one app that will be able to stream from all of those channels though, so you don't have to have seperate apps for each channel.

I'm not sure that we will ever be able to actually stream our personal recordings off of our home DVRs.


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> It's real time? I thought it was transferring over your network like file transferring?


Nomad takes an MRV stream and transcodes it. So in addition to the transfer occuring in real time, it also prevents you from watching any programs remotely from that DVR.


----------



## SParker

sigma1914 said:


> If you want live streaming, then buy Slingbox.


I already have one. I was just hoping Directv would have done something to counter Dish Networks Sling. Oh well..


----------



## Beerstalker

Jeremy W said:


> Nomad takes an MRV stream and transcodes it. So in addition to the transfer occuring in real time, it also prevents you from watching any programs remotely from that DVR.


We know that you can't stream to the NOMAD and use MRV at the same time as they must use the same components to work, but I don't know if we know for sure that it actually has to happen in real time.

Also, I believe you can use MRV from the DVR, it just overides the stream to the NOMAD. From what I read it seems like they gave MRV priority and it overrides any NOMAD streams in place. What I'm not sure about is whether the transcoding is just paused or if it is actually stopped and the file is deleted and it has to start all over again (I really hope that isn't the case as it would be very annoying sometimes).


----------



## RAD

SParker said:


> I already have one. I was just hoping Directv would have done something to counter Dish Networks Sling. Oh well..


I think DIRECTV's feeling is if you need streaming then there is Sling and other alternatives. From that I've heard in financial calls they think that folks will perfer to have their content stored on their portable media so they don't have to worry about having a signal or any lack or bandwidth or bandwidth limits. So if you're at 36K feet and want to watch The Daily Show or Avatar just load it on the player before you leave home and you're all set to watch it.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> I don't know if we know for sure that it actually has to happen in real time.


It does, confirmed from someone who has actually seen it.


Beerstalker said:


> What I'm not sure about is whether the transcoding is just paused or if it is actually stopped and the file is deleted and it has to start all over again


I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the file is discarded, requiring the process to start from scratch.


----------



## mikela

When is it going to be released.. ?? Thats the big question now. Once we can get our hands on it we'll know what it can do..


----------



## Beerstalker

mikela said:


> When is it going to be released.. ?? Thats the big question now. Once we can get our hands on it we'll know what it can do..


Haven't you been around here long enough to know?

Soon! :lol:



Jeremy W said:


> It does, confirmed from someone who has actually seen it.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the file is discarded, requiring the process to start from scratch.


OK, I must have missed that. That's too bad it has to do it real time, but like I said I imagine you can just set it up to transcode a bunch of them before you go to bed and then just leave them stored on your jump drive or computer until you need them.

As far as discarding the file, that is what I remember reading too, but I hoped it was wrong. That seems like a pretty sloppy way to do it. I imagine that could get real annoying if MRV does override NOMAD whenever you use it, hopefully they can at least put a pop up on the screen warning you that you are going to cancel the NOMAD transcoding so it isn't done on accident all the time.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> As far as discarding the file, that is what I remember reading too, but I hoped it was wrong.


Everything about Nomad is pretty sloppy. It's a really hacky solution to the problem of people wanting to view their DVR content remotely.


----------



## dpeters11

I haven't been following the thread closely, and probably should do a search, but is it possible that the reason you can't access things remotely directly from the DVR is to avoid issues with sports? I know at one point there was talk of the legality of Sling and getting around blackout rules, or say setting up a Sling at the parents house to avoid paying for ST in your market.


----------



## Jeremy W

dpeters11 said:


> I haven't been following the thread closely, and probably should do a search, but is it possible that the reason you can't access things remotely directly from the DVR is to avoid issues with sports?


No, the reason is that the clear market leader in this technology is owned by a direct competitor.


----------



## wco81

It would be nice to have both, streaming or at least transferring the files over the Internet and also preloading.

Would be great to watch some shows on vacation on the iPad when there's some free time.

Sling gets complaints about the HW quality and the double-dipping for iPhone and iPad versions of the client.


----------



## wco81

OK, so you have to have MRV and then pay a separate Nomad fee on top of it?

For the privilege of place-shifting the content you already pay for?

They're advertising Sunday Ticket to Go? Is that on mobile devices? How does that work?


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> OK, so you have to have MRV and then pay a separate Nomad fee on top of it?


That's my understanding.


wco81 said:


> For the privilege of place-shifting the content you already pay for?


They already charge you $3/month to watch content within the confines of your house. The precident was already set.


wco81 said:


> They're advertising Sunday Ticket to Go? Is that on mobile devices? How does that work?


NFLST To Go has been around for years. It's streamed from DirecTV's servers. Totally different concept.


----------



## inkahauts

Jeremy W said:


> Everything about Nomad is pretty sloppy. It's a really hacky solution to the problem of people wanting to view their DVR content remotely.


Since you don't have one, and have never played with one, I have to wonder how you can know this for sure. I wish people would learn to save judgment on anything and everything till they have first hand knowledge of something.


----------



## TBoneit

RAD said:


> I think DIRECTV's feeling is if you need streaming then there is Sling and other alternatives. From that I've heard in financial calls they think that folks will prefer to have their content stored on their portable media so they don't have to worry about having a signal or any lack or bandwidth or bandwidth limits. So if you're at 36K feet and want to watch The Daily Show or Avatar just load it on the player before you leave home and you're all set to watch it.


Pros and cons to both systems, Nomad and Sling

With Sling you can access the latest content as long as you have a high speed connection.

With Nomad, no Internet connection needed. Nothing available that you did not preload.

In my case since I keep nothing much on my DVR, I watch and delete there would not be much there to preload and a sling would be better.

Pre Internet back in the 80's I took a small computer that could hook up to a TV as display so I could get my messages from Compuserve with me when I went on vacation. Now that I can get a laptop it is much easier of course.

I have been toying with getting a HD Sling.


----------



## mikela

What do you guys think will be released first? Iphone 5 or Nomad.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Since you don't have one, and have never played with one, I have to wonder how you can know this for sure.


I'm basing it on things I already know:

Transfers occur in real time
Transfers cannot be resumed after being interrupted
All content must be preloaded on your device before leaving the house
I don't have to have one in order to know these things, and know that I consider them to be hacky.


----------



## mikela

Good point. But we don't know that for a fact. I'm still hoping i can download shows away from home.


----------



## Jeremy W

mikela said:


> Good point. But we don't know that for a fact. I'm still hoping i can download shows away from home.


Don't hold your breath.


----------



## mikela

You said it. I'm used to disapointment from D.


----------



## RAD

TBoneit said:


> Pros and cons to both systems, Nomad and Sling
> 
> With Sling you can access the latest content as long as you have a high speed connection.
> 
> With Nomad, no Internet connection needed. Nothing available that you did not preload.
> 
> In my case since I keep nothing much on my DVR, I watch and delete there would not be much there to preload and a sling would be better.
> 
> Pre Internet back in the 80's I took a small computer that could hook up to a TV as display so I could get my messages from Compuserve with me when I went on vacation. Now that I can get a laptop it is much easier of course.
> 
> I have been toying with getting a HD Sling.


IIRC, White has said a couple times that the best PQ would be if you could stream programming directly from the source. Maybe DIRECTV's plan is the content providers supply the streaming, like CNN, HBO, Cinemax, and you're authorized to access that content if you subscribe to a subscription based channel. I know there was some testing a few months ago for streaming for a number of Turner channels, so maybe that's the direction. DIRECTV has nomad for protable content and they get the content providers to provide the streaming option.


----------



## wco81

Given how well-received HBO Go was, Nomad is going to disappoint in comparison, if these limitations are true.


----------



## Jeremy W

wco81 said:


> Given how well-received HBO Go was, Nomad is going to disappoint in comparison, if these limitations are true.


Completely agree.


----------



## sigma1914

Thanks for the info, Jeremy. It's a shame to think how great this could've been.


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> Thanks for the info, Jeremy. It's a shame to think how great this could've been.


It all boils down to DRM in the end.


----------



## inkahauts

Jeremy W said:


> I'm basing it on things I already know:
> 
> Transfers occur in real time
> Transfers cannot be resumed after being interrupted
> All content must be preloaded on your device before leaving the house
> I don't have to have one in order to know these things, and know that I consider them to be hacky.


[*]Transfers occur in real time
[*]Transfers cannot be resumed after being interrupted

These two I had not heard of. I am not surprised by the first based on the actual source, the DVR. How do we know if this is true, especially the second one.

Reality is, if I can que it up to transfer a bunch of things and leave it over night before I go on a vacation, I think its all fine.

I suspect it might also take over for directv2pc at some point and we will see that program go away.

I also suspect that at some point we will see over the net streaming out of it, but not at launch. The biggest difference with sling vs nomad, is going over the net will be in digital form from a digital source, so they have a whole lot of other issues with hollywood than sling ever will. Its just not the same thing.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> How do we know if this is true, especially the second one.


I know they're both true, but I guess you'll just have to trust me. Or not.


inkahauts said:


> Reality is, if I can que it up to transfer a bunch of things and leave it over night before I go on a vacation, I think its all fine.


I know you can queue things up, probably as much as will fit onto Nomad's internal storage.


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> I suspect it might also take over for directv2pc at some point and we will see that program go away.


I expect that you're wrong about replacing DIRECTV2PC. I think it unlikely that a full resolution copy will ever be allowed and that suggests that DIRECTV2PC will remain the only way to watch full fidelity video on a computer.


----------



## gio12

Jeremy W said:


> Especially with the pre-planning it requires. You have to transfer content to your device while you're at home, and transferring content to Nomad from your DVR must be done in real time. So an hour show will take an hour to transfer.


What? What a waste of time. This long for basically a DVD-Recorder?


----------



## gio12

sigma1914 said:


> If you want live streaming, then buy Slingbox.


I am. I waited this long for this NOMAD crap?! Slingbox it is.


----------



## gio12

RAD said:


> I think DIRECTV's feeling is if you need streaming then there is Sling and other alternatives. From that I've heard in financial calls they think that folks will perfer to have their content stored on their portable media so they don't have to worry about having a signal or any lack or bandwidth or bandwidth limits. So if you're at 36K feet and want to watch The Daily Show or Avatar just load it on the player before you leave home and you're all set to watch it.


And that's why I prefer it over a Slingbox. But RT downloading at home. Now streaming DVR content? No live streaming? Just might pass.
I can just get a DVD-Recorder and re-incode it via Hand brake.


----------



## inkahauts

"harsh" said:


> I expect that you're wrong about replacing DIRECTV2PC. I think it unlikely that a full resolution copy will ever be allowed and that suggests that DIRECTV2PC will remain the only way to watch full fidelity video on a computer.


And I know you are wrong.


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> And I know you are wrong.


We'll see.

It seems like if DIRECTV had any intention of facilitating a full resolution video for use on a Pee Cee, they wouldn't have gone to such extremes to protect content delivered through DIRECTV2PC.


----------



## harsh

wco81 said:


> OK, so you have to have MRV and then pay a separate Nomad fee on top of it?


Given that other DIRECTV products that include the word "service" in their title have a fee, "nomad Mobile DVR Service" will likely also command a fee over and above the prerequisite "DVR Service" and "Whole-Home DVR Service" fees.


----------



## wco81

Or just convert videos yourself and use something like Air Video to load onto the iPad and not pay any monthly fee for content that you've already paid for.


----------



## LoweBoy

I will only buy if a one time $99 or less. Extra fees SUX!

I am not about to shuck out more in monthly fees. I already get the ST to go, no other real needs other than my Horns. Wish D* would get in on ESPN App. All I want remote is for the sports I want to watch when the wife drags me away on my football time.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

gio12 said:


> I am. I waited this long for this NOMAD crap?! Slingbox it is.


I thought you quit DTV? :shrug:

Nomad will be able to stream from what I'm hearing, but not at launch. The differentiated product is the ability to take YOUR content that you have recorded with you wherever you want. On the PC, on the iphone, on the ipad, on an android device. No WiFi or 3G connection needed. No extra shows or movies to buy like iTunes.

That's the difference. It's your content that you pay DIRECTV for and you are porting it over to those devices to watch in another fashion. Plus, down the road it will also be able stream thus having the ability to do what Slingbox does today but also the porting transcoding aspect that slingbox can't do.

But again, I thought you quit DTV? :shrug:


----------



## wco81

Anyone try the Vulkano products? Some people claim it's better than Sling in many ways.


----------



## Jeremy W

ChicagoBlue said:


> It's your content that you pay DIRECTV for


And then paying *again* for.


----------



## harsh

wco81 said:


> Anyone try the Vulkano products? Some people claim it's better than Sling in many ways.


There are a couple of people who have mentioned having the Hava (the rather short-lived predecessor to the Vulkano series). The Vulkanos look kinda pricey in a market beginning to suffer at the hands of TV Everywhere (although the recent iTunes change may rescue these kinds of devices).


----------



## geaux tigers

harsh said:


> There are a couple of people who have mentioned having the Hava (the rather short-lived predecessor to the Vulkano series). The Vulkanos look kinda pricey in a market beginning to suffer at the hands of TV Everywhere (although the recent iTunes change may rescue these kinds of devices).


I have a Hava. It works well and there is an iPhone app as well. However, the app only works over wi-fi even though the company promised to make the app 3G compatible over a year ago. The company is not very dependable and I can not recommend their products because many of us were lied to regarding the 3G issue.


----------



## markrogo

sigma1914 said:


> It's also not for everyone, but many people will enjoy it..


If by "many" you mean "something around maybe 1% of the DirecTV customer base" then we are in agreement. If you think this has a chance of being very popular with multiple monthly fees and such an unbelievably clunky implementation, you are mistaken.

Not only do you have to record things to your DVR first. You have to then Nomad them. Then copy them to your portable. Oh, and don't forget, not everything is Nomad-able (content restrictions apply). And things can expire (VOD, PPV, etc.).

In retrospect, 1% seems wildly high.


----------



## spartanstew

markrogo said:


> If by "many" you mean "something around maybe 1% of the DirecTV customer base" then we are in agreement. If you think this has a chance of being very popular with multiple monthly fees and such an unbelievably clunky implementation, you are mistaken.
> 
> Not only do you have to record things to your DVR first. You have to then Nomad them. Then copy them to your portable. Oh, and don't forget, not everything is Nomad-able (content restrictions apply). And things can expire (VOD, PPV, etc.).
> 
> In retrospect, 1% seems wildly high.


LOL, no wonder you don't post much.


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> LOL, no wonder you don't post much.


 He made some valid points, why not address them instead of just tearing him down?


----------



## spartanstew

What points?

Multiple Monthly fees?
Unbelievably clunky implementation?
Copy to your Nomad and then to your portable?
Content restrictions apply?


None of those are points, they're unsubstantiated rants.


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> What points?
> 
> Multiple Monthly fees?
> Unbelievably clunky implementation?
> Copy to your Nomad and then to your portable?
> Content restrictions apply?
> 
> None of those are points, they're unsubstantiated rants.


Aside from the monthly fee thing, which I'm only 90% sure on, I'm 100% sure he's correct on the rest of his points.


----------



## sigma1914

I'm curious how a few of you are allowed to post what it does and doesn't do? I guess some folks don't honor the clauses to test equipment. (Jeremy, I'm not saying you are doing this since I'm aware you went to U-Verse.)


----------



## spartanstew

Clunky implementation according to whom?
You don't think the copying procedure, while perhaps from DVR to Nomad and then Nomad to portable, might be one click? Of course it would probably go from the DVR to the Nomad device and then to the portable. So what? Did everyone complain when they found out DVR's recorded in real time? 
What content will be restricted?


Many of you may not like the fact that it appears not to be a streaming device, but many people also won't care. I want to be able to watch my shows when I'm on a plane or sitting at the airport or sitting in a hotel room. Many (much more than 1%) will want the same - watch shows in areas where they might not have internet.

It's a big deal that I can't select a show and have it arrive on my portable instantly? That makes it "unbelievably clunky"? Ridiculous. 

Amazed how many members have to whine about something all the time.


----------



## spartanstew

Let me put it this way Jeremy:

I've been traveling nearly every week for over 20 years (150+ nights per year). I've known about the Slingbox since it first came out, but I've never purchased one. Why? I have no need. I don't care to watch shows on my laptop when I can watch shows on a TV in my hotel room. I would, however, love the ability to watch TV on airplanes, in cabs, on layovers in the airports, and other times when a TV and internet are not available.

Will this Nomad allow me to record a bunch of shows over the weekend when I'm home and watch them during the week on my trip?
Will this Nomad allow me to do this regardless of whether or not I'm connected to the internet?

I haven't followed this thread as closely as some, but from what I've read that appears to be the case. If that is in fact true, I'll be very happy as will many other D* customers.


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> I'm curious how a few of you are allowed to post what it does and doesn't do? I guess some folks don't honor the clauses to test equipment. (Jeremy, I'm not saying you are doing this since I'm aware you went to U-Verse.)


I have no first hand experience with Nomad (which is why I can post about it), but my information is accurate.


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> Will this Nomad allow me to record a bunch of shows over the weekend when I'm home and watch them during the week on my trip?
> Will this Nomad allow me to do this regardless of whether or not I'm connected to the internet?


Yes to both. Sounds like Nomad will be a great product for you. That doesn't mean it will have mass appeal, though.


----------



## markrogo

spartanstew said:


> What points?
> 
> Multiple Monthly fees?
> Unbelievably clunky implementation?
> Copy to your Nomad and then to your portable?
> Content restrictions apply?
> 
> None of those are points, they're unsubstantiated rants.


Um, OK... Have fun with it then. They're all true.


----------



## sigma1914

markrogo said:


> Um, OK... Have fun with it then. They're all true.


What's the "Multiple Monthly fees" you refer to?


----------



## luckydob

"spartanstew" said:


> What points?
> 
> Multiple Monthly fees?
> Unbelievably clunky implementation?
> Copy to your Nomad and then to your portable?
> Content restrictions apply?
> 
> None of those are points, they're unsubstantiated rants.


If it takes one hour to move a program to another device that is an hour long then it is CLUNKY! I am quite sure that I could find a torrent and drop it on my device without commercials...I don't do that, but it would be easier and less time consuming. Again,
the legal/paying customers are inconvenienced while the pirates get it so much easier. If implemented as described, then this is a fail. Extra costs out the ying yang...and copying to multiple devices that render my portable device useless for x amount of time.


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> What's the "Multiple Monthly fees" you refer to?


MRV and Nomad fees.


----------



## code4code5

"Jeremy W" said:


> MRV and Nomad fees.


And DVR fees. It seems that we'd be paying three times for essentially the same capabilities.


----------



## markrogo

code4code5 said:


> And DVR fees. It seems that we'd be paying three times for essentially the same capabilities.


My wife and I had an unusually long conversation about the MRV fee because even at $3/month, we both felt it was insane and outrageous that they were imposing a fee increase to use our DVRs slightly better. We paid it and drew a mental line in the sand.

The Nomad fee is beyond that line for us, that's for sure.

For some of you, it won't be and no one is begrudging you that. I am just hoping its very few of you so that DirecTV gets the message that the nickel-and-diming needs to end. In the meantime, I'm just going to get a modern Slingbox and keep ripping my DVDs for when I'm on an airplane.

Let's be clear, if Nomad had a one-time fee, performed like a Slingbox *and* had this clunky thing that allowed me to transcode recorded shows and download them to my laptop, I'd certainly be a lot more interested. If there was no chance of a channel not being flagged "no Nomad use", that'd also increase the appeal. Except that's not the way it's going down.

1) There will be a new fee.
2) There will be multiple steps required to get a program on your computer or iPhone/iPad/etc.
3) There will be programs (and possibly entire channels) you cannot move at all and PPV, VOD, etc. will have the chance to expire and be unviewable.

Of course, that's just a unsubstantiated rant, according to some. Even though it will be the way it works.


----------



## rnwjr

markrogo said:


> My wife and I had an unusually long conversation about the MRV fee because even at $3/month, we both felt it was insane and outrageous that they were imposing a fee increase to use our DVRs slightly better. We paid it and drew a mental line in the sand.
> 
> The Nomad fee is beyond that line for us, that's for sure.
> 
> For some of you, it won't be and no one is begrudging you that. I am just hoping its very few of you so that DirecTV gets the message that the nickel-and-diming needs to end. In the meantime, I'm just going to get a modern Slingbox and keep ripping my DVDs for when I'm on an airplane.
> 
> Let's be clear, if Nomad had a one-time fee, performed like a Slingbox *and* had this clunky thing that allowed me to transcode recorded shows and download them to my laptop, I'd certainly be a lot more interested. If there was no chance of a channel not being flagged "no Nomad use", that'd also increase the appeal. Except that's not the way it's going down.
> 
> 1) There will be a new fee.
> 2) There will be multiple steps required to get a program on your computer or iPhone/iPad/etc.
> 3) There will be programs (and possibly entire channels) you cannot move at all and PPV, VOD, etc. will have the chance to expire and be unviewable.
> 
> Of course, that's just a unsubstantiated rant, according to some. Even though it will be the way it works.


I agree! I wish they would waive the fees like the did with HD because of the free offer from Dish.... Competition is great!


----------



## paulman182

If this would allow premium movies to be downloaded to my laptop or smartphone, I'd consider it, but I'm thinking it will just be episodes of TV shows.

I also wouldn't pay much of a monthly fee for it, if any.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

Jeremy W said:


> MRV and Nomad fees.


Except for the little detail that there are no monthly Nomad fees for this product nor do you need MRV to use this product. Otherwise, you're dead on correct. :lol:


----------



## ChicagoBlue

paulman182 said:


> If this would allow premium movies to be downloaded to my laptop or smartphone, I'd consider it, but I'm thinking it will just be episodes of TV shows.
> 
> I also wouldn't pay much of a monthly fee for it, if any.


It would allow for that feature


----------



## Jeremy W

code4code5 said:


> And DVR fees. It seems that we'd be paying three times for essentially the same capabilities.


I didn't include DVR fees because they're not optional. But if you're going to include DVR fees, you might as well include HD Access as well, because only the HD DVRs will have this capability.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

Jeremy W said:


> I didn't include DVR fees because they're not optional. But if you're going to include DVR fees, you might as well include HD Access as well, because only the HD DVRs will have this capability.


If you sign up for Auto Bill Pay, there is no HD Access fee.

Next.... :lol:


----------



## ChicagoBlue

markrogo said:


> My wife and I had an unusually long conversation about the MRV fee because even at $3/month, we both felt it was insane and outrageous that they were imposing a fee increase to use our DVRs slightly better. We paid it and drew a mental line in the sand.
> 
> The Nomad fee is beyond that line for us, that's for sure.
> 
> For some of you, it won't be and no one is begrudging you that. I am just hoping its very few of you so that DirecTV gets the message that the nickel-and-diming needs to end. In the meantime, I'm just going to get a modern Slingbox and keep ripping my DVDs for when I'm on an airplane.
> 
> Let's be clear, if Nomad had a one-time fee, performed like a Slingbox *and* had this clunky thing that allowed me to transcode recorded shows and download them to my laptop, I'd certainly be a lot more interested. If there was no chance of a channel not being flagged "no Nomad use", that'd also increase the appeal. Except that's not the way it's going down.
> 
> 1) There will be a new fee.
> 2) There will be multiple steps required to get a program on your computer or iPhone/iPad/etc.
> 3) There will be programs (and possibly entire channels) you cannot move at all and PPV, VOD, etc. will have the chance to expire and be unviewable.
> 
> Of course, that's just a unsubstantiated rant, according to some. Even though it will be the way it works.


You could not be more wrong on #1. 
Yes, there might be multiple steps to get from point A to point B, but that's hardly a deal killer
Whether you can carry all programming to your nomad will depend likely on deals with programmers. Is that DTV's fault or is that the programmers \ studios?

As for the increased fee for MRV, why do you get upset about that? When new software features come out for a product, don't you normally have to upgrade to get them and that requires a fee? Often a substantial fee? I don't recall moving up from Office 97 to Office 2003 to Office 2007 without paying handsomely for it.

There are R & D costs, likely licensing costs, etc that go into developing product features such as MRV, why on earth shouldn't they be able to recoup those costs?


----------



## Jeremy W

ChicagoBlue said:


> When new software features come out for a product, don't you normally have to upgrade to get them and that requires a fee? Often a substantial fee? I don't recall moving up from Office 97 to Office 2003 to Office 2007 without paying handsomely for it.


When I have a *subscription* to that product, I do not expect to pay for upgrades. In your Office example, businesses that subscribe to Software Assurance would simply get the upgraded versions as part of their subscription.


----------



## LameLefty

Jeremy W said:


> When I have a *subscription* to that product, I do not expect to pay for upgrades. In your Office example, businesses that subscribe to Software Assurance would simply get the upgraded versions as part of their subscription.


You're subscribing for TV, not the ability to record and time-shift it locally (the DVR fee), or watch it on any of up to 16 locations in your house no matter which box you record it on (WHDVR fee), or the ability to transfer it to another device and watch it away from your subscription address (the possible Nomad fee, it Directv charges for it).

Not that I think this is the way to inspire loyalty and keep happy customers, but it is most certainly how the entertainment industry thinks and how they charge providers (who in turn start thinking the same way and charging customers).


----------



## Jeremy W

LameLefty said:


> Not that I think this is the way to inspire loyalty and keep happy customers, but it is most certainly how the entertainment industry thinks and how they charge providers (who in turn start thinking the same way and charging customers).


Are you saying that the content providers are collecting fees from DirecTV for every subscriber with MRV? I find that extremely hard to believe.


----------



## harsh

ChicagoBlue said:


> Except for the little detail that there are no monthly Nomad fees for this product nor do you need MRV to use this product. Otherwise, you're dead on correct. :lol:


Perhaps you have insight into the nomad that differs from the information given in the video but the video clearly states that DVR Service and MRV capability on the account are _required_. The nomad Mobile DVR Service fee was not mentioned but seems to follow.


----------



## harsh

ChicagoBlue said:


> If you sign up for Auto Bill Pay, there is no HD Access fee.


That is until DIRECTV, seemingly randomly, begins charging you the fee again.


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> You're subscribing for TV, not the ability to record and time-shift it locally (the DVR fee), or watch it on any of up to 16 locations in your house no matter which box you record it on (WHDVR fee), or the ability to transfer it to another device and watch it away from your subscription address (the possible Nomad fee, it Directv charges for it).


DIRECTV seems to be ramping up TV Everywhere and they're not charging a TV Everywhere Service fee (yet).

Then again, they didn't used to charge for MRV...


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> DIRECTV seems to be ramping up TV Everywhere and they're not charging a TV Everywhere Service fee (yet).


The content providers will not allow that.


harsh said:


> Then again, they didn't used to charge for MRV...


As long as MRV has been publically available, there has been a fee.


----------



## LameLefty

Jeremy W said:


> Are you saying that the content providers are collecting fees from DirecTV for every subscriber with MRV? I find that extremely hard to believe.


Don't play the pedant with me or toss up straw men. Direct pays providers based on LOTS of factors, factors that no doubt vary considerably from provider to provider depending on what's perceived to be important to each.

In general, however, "portability" of programming is clearly a Big Deal™ right now to many of them. How that specifically plays into each provider's negotiations will of course vary.


----------



## Jeremy W

LameLefty said:


> Don't play the pedant with me or toss up straw men. Direct pays providers based on LOTS of factors, factors that no doubt vary considerably from provider to provider depending on what's perceived to be important to each.


You're the one who threw out the ridiculous claim. I'd like to see a shred of evidence to back it up, because I have never heard of this. The reasoning behind the MRV fee has always been "development and support."


----------



## billsharpe

This Nomad thread started almost eleven months ago. Yet I still have no idea when DirecTV will be offering the product to subscribers, not testers, or how much it will actually cost.


----------



## Jeremy W

billsharpe said:


> This Nomad thread started almost eleven months ago. Yet I still have no idea when DirecTV will be offering the product to subscribers, not testers, or how much it will actually cost.


I'd say the fact that they have a page for it on their website means it'll be available in the near future.


----------



## markrogo

ChicagoBlue said:


> You could not be more wrong on #1.
> 
> As for the increased fee for MRV, why do you get upset about that? When new software features come out for a product, don't you normally have to upgrade to get them and that requires a fee? Often a substantial fee? I don't recall moving up from Office 97 to Office 2003 to Office 2007 without paying handsomely for it.


Well, if Nomad carries no monthly fee, I'll be happy to be wrong. Surprised, but happy to be wrong.

As for MRV, you have to be kidding. I'm already paying for the programming and each of the DVRs. And, on top of that, they nickel-and-dime $3 for the right to watch a program from one of the DVRs on another one.

Aside from the fact that I get tons of free software upgrades from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tivo (in the past when I used it), Sony, scores of app providers, many of which provide new functions/features, I actually paid for the MRV upgrade, too. They charged me money to come out and implement it. The monthly fee on top of that is offensive and insulting. It was the first time that we truly couldn't begin to reconcile a TV monthly charge since the old days of cable's "additional outlet fee" (long since rendered illegal by the 1992 cable act).

There is no equipment rental for MRV each month. Basically it's $36 for software support that (a) most of us never use and (b) generally doesn't solve most people's problems anyway. (Aside: Thanks to DBS Talk, the problems I've had with MRV have been solved. But that's thanks to DBS Talk, not any of my calls to DirecTV.)

I note that you don't refute any of my other points on Nomad. Anyway, back to looking for a good deal on a used Slingbox.


----------



## David Ortiz

markrogo said:


> Well, if Nomad carries no monthly fee, I'll be happy to be wrong. Surprised, but happy to be wrong.
> 
> As for MRV, you have to be kidding. I'm already paying for the programming and each of the DVRs. And, on top of that, they nickel-and-dime $3 for the right to watch a program from one of the DVRs on another one.
> 
> Aside from the fact that I get tons of free software upgrades from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tivo (in the past when I used it), Sony, scores of app providers, many of which provide new functions/features, I actually paid for the MRV upgrade, too. They charged me money to come out and implement it. The monthly fee on top of that is offensive and insulting. It was the first time that we truly couldn't begin to reconcile a TV monthly charge since the old days of cable's "additional outlet fee" (long since rendered illegal by the 1992 cable act).
> 
> There is no equipment rental for MRV each month. Basically it's $36 for software support that (a) most of us never use and (b) generally doesn't solve most people's problems anyway. (Aside: Thanks to DBS Talk, the problems I've had with MRV have been solved. But that's thanks to DBS Talk, not any of my calls to DirecTV.)
> 
> I note that you don't refute any of my other points on Nomad. Anyway, back to looking for a good deal on a used Slingbox.


If all you have are DVRs, the $3 WHDVR fee makes much less sense than if you have only 1 DVR and say 2 or 3 HD receivers. WHDVR gives receivers more functionality. There is value added, hence the fee.


----------



## Karen

I can see charging a fee for Nomad. It will be like adding another receiver, and they already charge for additional receivers. I don't like it, but I can understand it! <g>


----------



## Jeremy W

David Ortiz said:


> WHDVR gives receivers more functionality. There is value added, hence the fee.


Hence nothing. DirecTV adds functionality all the time without additional fees. This fee was arbitrary, because DirecTV felt like they could get away with it. And they have.


----------



## David Ortiz

Jeremy W said:


> Hence nothing. DirecTV adds functionality all the time without additional fees. This fee was arbitrary, because DirecTV felt like they could get away with it. And they have.


I'm pretty sure you got the point. I'm not arguing the fee. If my $3 a month is allowing me to use my receivers as DVRs, I can appreciate that value. If I already have DVRs everywhere, the value is certainly less.


----------



## dennisj00

Be sure to check out the $29.99 for the iPhone or iPad app for the Sling clients. . .


----------



## Beerstalker

I agree that it is poorly implemented if it automatically interrrupts a NOMAD transcoding process and causes the unfinished program to be deleted and the process to be started over again if you try to use MRV from the same DVR. However, I don't think that the whole concept is necessarily poorly done. 

Think about it, if you want to put a show on your iPhone/Ipad now what do you have to do? Go online, find the show, buy it/rent it, download it, put it in iTunes, and finally sync your device to itunes to transfer it over.

Is that really that much easier than sitting down at your computer, running the NOMAD program, finding the recording you want, and telling it to transfer over to your computer. Then importing that file into iTunes and syncing it to your device.

Or going to your DVR and finding the program and telling it to send it to your computer, then importing to iTunes, etc.

Sounds like a pretty similar process to me.


----------



## harsh

billsharpe said:


> This Nomad thread started almost eleven months ago. Yet I still have no idea when DirecTV will be offering the product to subscribers, not testers, or how much it will actually cost.


That's the way DIRECTV wants it.

They tried the route of projecting deliveries, feature sets and other information for DIRECTV 2Go back in 2006 and that ultimately did NOT go well.


----------



## harsh

David Ortiz said:


> If my $3 a month is allowing me to use my receivers as DVRs, I can appreciate that value.


The competition charges a one-time $40 fee to convert their HD receiver into an HD DVR of sorts. No fancy networking or $10/month DVR fee required.


----------



## David Ortiz

harsh said:


> The competition charges a one-time $40 fee to convert their HD receiver into an HD DVR of sorts. No fancy networking or $10/month DVR fee required.


Get back to me when they have the YES Network and MLBEI.


----------



## LameLefty

Jeremy W said:


> You're the one who threw out the ridiculous claim.


Did you lose the ability to comprehend analogies when you accepted that promotion to this thread's official "I've Never Used It But I Know It All"? :lol:

I never said that was the specific basis for any particular fee - I said that specific fees for specific usage scenarios is exactly how the entertainment industry wants everyone to think about content, and that thinking is influencing content providers. And it clearly is.


----------



## wco81

David Ortiz said:


> Get back to me when they have the YES Network and MLBEI.


David "Big Papi" Ortiz cares about Yankees games?


----------



## inkahauts

markrogo said:


> My wife and I had an unusually long conversation about the MRV fee because even at $3/month, we both felt it was insane and outrageous that they were imposing a fee increase to use our DVRs slightly better. We paid it and drew a mental line in the sand.
> 
> The Nomad fee is beyond that line for us, that's for sure.
> 
> For some of you, it won't be and no one is begrudging you that. I am just hoping its very few of you so that DirecTV gets the message that the nickel-and-diming needs to end. In the meantime, I'm just going to get a modern Slingbox and keep ripping my DVDs for when I'm on an airplane.
> 
> Let's be clear, if Nomad had a one-time fee, performed like a Slingbox *and* had this clunky thing that allowed me to transcode recorded shows and download them to my laptop, I'd certainly be a lot more interested. If there was no chance of a channel not being flagged "no Nomad use", that'd also increase the appeal. Except that's not the way it's going down.
> 
> 1) There will be a new fee.
> 2) There will be multiple steps required to get a program on your computer or iPhone/iPad/etc.
> 3) There will be programs (and possibly entire channels) you cannot move at all and PPV, VOD, etc. will have the chance to expire and be unviewable.
> 
> Of course, that's just a unsubstantiated rant, according to some. Even though it will be the way it works.


I can see the rational for nomad fees more so than for mrv fees. You are adding an additional location to view your programs, similar to having an additional box, only this one will go with you where ever you go, which you can't do (legally) with your boxes.

I am curious to see the actual steps to get it onto your ipad, etc.

Where did you hear about programs not being able to be moved? I would not be surprised, but then again, other than maybe ppv, I don't see why it would be needed with proper encryption.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Where did you hear about programs not being able to be moved? I would not be surprised, but then again, other than maybe ppv, I don't see why it would be needed with proper encryption.


It's up to the broadcasters. If it's marked copy once or copy never, it can't be copied off the DVR. Encryption is irrelevant.


----------



## inkahauts

LameLefty said:


> Don't play the pedant with me or toss up straw men. Direct pays providers based on LOTS of factors, factors that no doubt vary considerably from provider to provider depending on what's perceived to be important to each.
> 
> In general, however, "portability" of programming is clearly a Big Deal™ right now to many of them. How that specifically plays into each provider's negotiations will of course vary.


I personally almost think that hbo 2 go is the better way to go for all the channels when it comes to streaming. Means directv doesn't have to spend the money on the infrastructure to make it happen. But more importantly it would mean, IMHO better access to the catalogues of the channels than you could get with directv. Of course if all the channels are ok with that, then I don;t see why they wouldn't also be ok with streaming from the nomad. All comes down to the contracts and the money.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Of course if all the channels are ok with that, then I don;t see why they wouldn't also be ok with streaming from the nomad.


When the content providers are doing the streaming, they have direct access to the viewers. The TV provider is totally cut out of the equation, all they do is say "yep, this person is paying to see your channel" and their part is done. This allows the content providers to do things like targeted advertising. If the streaming is happening outside of their control, they lose that advantage.


----------



## Shades228

harsh said:


> The competition charges a one-time $40 fee to convert their HD receiver into an HD DVR of sorts. No fancy networking or $10/month DVR fee required.


How does the remote management of that work? How does that help if one wants to add more recording capability and be able to watch TV at the same time?

I can understand how in some cases a simple item like that can be good for certain scenarios but attempting to compare an EHD to MRV is too big of a stretch.


----------



## Shades228

inkahauts said:


> I personally almost think that hbo 2 go is the better way to go for all the channels when it comes to streaming. Means directv doesn't have to spend the money on the infrastructure to make it happen. But more importantly it would mean, IMHO better access to the catalogues of the channels than you could get with directv. Of course if all the channels are ok with that, then I don;t see why they wouldn't also be ok with streaming from the nomad. All comes down to the contracts and the money.


There's a reasom HBO costs more than other premiums and I can guarantee that the last contract negotation had a price increase for use of to go.

HBO can control their website but they cannot control to go. Also going to HBO drives the HBO brand with a consumer as watching a movie on a nomad they might forget, and won't care, what channel broadcasted it.


----------



## inkahauts

markrogo said:


> Well, if Nomad carries no monthly fee, I'll be happy to be wrong. Surprised, but happy to be wrong.
> 
> As for MRV, you have to be kidding. I'm already paying for the programming and each of the DVRs. And, on top of that, they nickel-and-dime $3 for the right to watch a program from one of the DVRs on another one.
> 
> Aside from the fact that I get tons of free software upgrades from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tivo (in the past when I used it), Sony, scores of app providers, many of which provide new functions/features, I actually paid for the MRV upgrade, too. They charged me money to come out and implement it. The monthly fee on top of that is offensive and insulting. It was the first time that we truly couldn't begin to reconcile a TV monthly charge since the old days of cable's "additional outlet fee" (long since rendered illegal by the 1992 cable act).
> 
> There is no equipment rental for MRV each month. Basically it's $36 for software support that (a) most of us never use and (b) generally doesn't solve most people's problems anyway. (Aside: Thanks to DBS Talk, the problems I've had with MRV have been solved. But that's thanks to DBS Talk, not any of my calls to DirecTV.)
> 
> I note that you don't refute any of my other points on Nomad. Anyway, back to looking for a good deal on a used Slingbox.


I agree with everything you say about the MRV fee, but then I turn and look at my local cable companies and how they charge, and man, they charge for everything that directv charges for and more, the only difference is they like to hide the fees in with one fee thats far higher. I mean, really, 20 a month for a dvr with hd access? And that's per dvr??? Maybe some company out there doesn't charge for that, but I'll bet most do. And nine times out of ten, if they don't its because they are trying to entice new customers and their only chance to pull customers away is to heavily undercut other providers to get their foot in the door, and eventually they will all have the same fees. I am talking about U-verse and Fios here... They are tiny companies in terms of customers in comparison to the big boys right now..

So yeah, I don't like the mrv fee, but then I am happy they didn't do like everyone else and simply raiser their dvr fees or lease fees $3 and not call it the mrv like everyone else has done. At least this way, people have a choice and if they don't have MRV, they aren't paying for others to have it.

Frankliy, it all sucks... but yet for me, they are still a lot cheaper, even if you call it nickle and dimming, cause its really not any different than anyone else, so what is someone to do. :shrug:


----------



## inkahauts

Jeremy W said:


> When the content providers are doing the streaming, they have direct access to the viewers. The TV provider is totally cut out of the equation, all they do is say "yep, this person is paying to see your channel" and their part is done. This allows the content providers to do things like targeted advertising. If the streaming is happening outside of their control, they lose that advantage.


You don't think the providers are getting their cut in that somehow? I'll bet they are, maybe simply by more favorable terms in their contracts, and probably data on their customers viewing habits as well. Both probably collect and share data with each other. No one is scratching anyone's backs for free around here. Thats been proven monthly every time I get my bill.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> You don't think the providers are getting their cut in that somehow?


What kind of cut? They're probably paying extra to get their subscribers access to these services. And the viewing data is practically irrelevant to them, since it's not on their platform.


----------



## Shades228

I can see why some don't think the Nomad will help them but I think that a majority, say 15-20% of DIRECTV customers could see it as a huge benefit. People who commute daily, kids, going on trips with kids. All of these scenarios are going to benefit from it. If content providers start locking down their shows too much then you'll find people will stop watching those shows on those services. If HBO chooses to lock down their movies with a copy once but Starz doesn't don't you think people who like the Nomad will vote with their wallet. If the nomad gets to 15-20% saturation you can bet that content providers will take notice of those numbers.


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> I can see why some don't think the Nomad will help them but I think that a majority, say 15-20% of DIRECTV customers could see it as a huge benefit.


Might want to check up on the definition of "majority." 


Shades228 said:


> If the nomad gets to 15-20% saturation you can bet that content providers will take notice of those numbers.


There is *no way* Nomad will see those numbers. If you were talking 15-20% of subscribers who have MRV, then you'd be much closer to reality.


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> The competition charges a one-time $40 fee to convert their HD receiver into an HD DVR of sorts. No fancy networking or $10/month DVR fee required.





Shades228 said:


> How does the remote management of that work? How does that help if one wants to add more recording capability and be able to watch TV at the same time?
> 
> I can understand how in some cases a simple item like that can be good for certain scenarios but attempting to compare an EHD to MRV is too big of a stretch.


He's trying to compare making a non dvr a dvr to having mrv. Two totally different worlds.


----------



## inkahauts

Jeremy W said:


> What kind of cut? They're probably paying extra to get their subscribers access to these services. And the viewing data is practically irrelevant to them, since it's not on their platform.


You don't understand marketing if you don't understand how that info could be valuable to a provider.

We'd need to know the details, but its also entirely possible that part of this deal is Directv won't offer streaming off HBO content because they have made their content available via hbo's servers. Unless someone sees that contract, we will never know for sure.


----------



## Shades228

Jeremy W said:


> Might want to check up on the definition of "majority."
> 
> There is *no way* Nomad will see those numbers. If you were talking 15-20% of subscribers who have MRV, then you'd be much closer to reality.


You don't think 15-20% of DIRECTV's subscriber base could see a benefit of the product? That's all I said I didn't say that many would have it. I do think that it will be more popular than most think but price point is really going to play into it.



inkahauts said:


> He's trying to compare making a non dvr a dvr to having mrv. Two totally different worlds.


He said $10 a month so that would be DVR + WHDVR. So he should say $7 if that's the comparison he's making. Remove part of my statement and it's still true.


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> You don't think 15-20% of DIRECTV's subscriber base could see a benefit of the product?


"See a benefit" is such a vague and nebulous phrase. I would see a benefit from Nomad, but that doesn't mean I'd pay very much for it because the benefit would be slight.


----------



## inkahauts

Shades228 said:


> He said $10 a month so that would be DVR + WHDVR. So he should say $7 if that's the comparison he's making. Remove part of my statement and it's still true.


No, there is nothing he can say to make that comparison accurate or intelligible in any way.

He's not at all talking about two things that are remotely related. You don't compare adding a hard drvie to a dvr to a whdvr system.

A proper analogy would have been how much dish charges to add a hard drive to a receiver vs. how much directv charges someone to upgrade a hd receiver to an hd dvr. That would have been a real comparison of something like minded, but it also has nothing to do with what we have been discussing, so hes just blowing smoke as usual.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

Jeremy W said:


> When I have a *subscription* to that product, I do not expect to pay for upgrades. In your Office example, businesses that subscribe to Software Assurance would simply get the upgraded versions as part of their subscription.


Do you not think when they developed MRV and the required SWM and hardware components necessary to utilize the MRV infrastructer they should be able to recoup some of those costs?

The subsidization for MRV is huge, that's why they are charging a small fee. Companies charge fees all the time when upgrades are done, especially if it has a material impact on their business. Your subscription rates do not entitle you to free upgrades. Those folks without MRV are paying those same subscription fees, are they not?


----------



## ChicagoBlue

harsh said:


> DIRECTV seems to be ramping up TV Everywhere and they're not charging a TV Everywhere Service fee (yet).
> 
> Then again, they didn't used to charge for MRV...


DTV has always charged for MRV


----------



## ChicagoBlue

markrogo said:


> Well, if Nomad carries no monthly fee, I'll be happy to be wrong. Surprised, but happy to be wrong.
> 
> As for MRV, you have to be kidding. I'm already paying for the programming and each of the DVRs. And, on top of that, they nickel-and-dime $3 for the right to watch a program from one of the DVRs on another one.
> 
> Aside from the fact that I get tons of free software upgrades from Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tivo (in the past when I used it), Sony, scores of app providers, many of which provide new functions/features, I actually paid for the MRV upgrade, too. They charged me money to come out and implement it. The monthly fee on top of that is offensive and insulting. It was the first time that we truly couldn't begin to reconcile a TV monthly charge since the old days of cable's "additional outlet fee" (long since rendered illegal by the 1992 cable act).
> 
> There is no equipment rental for MRV each month. Basically it's $36 for software support that (a) most of us never use and (b) generally doesn't solve most people's problems anyway. (Aside: Thanks to DBS Talk, the problems I've had with MRV have been solved. But that's thanks to DBS Talk, not any of my calls to DirecTV.)
> 
> I note that you don't refute any of my other points on Nomad. Anyway, back to looking for a good deal on a used Slingbox.


In all of your examples of upgrades, those are pure software upgrades that have no material hardware impact. That is not the case for MRV with DTV. If a customer without a SWM network desires MRV, that costs DTV a lot of money. They need to roll a truck, pay a technician, put in new equipment (sometimes new receivers). In some cases, the customer pays for some of that upgrade, but typically DTV is subsidizing those costs to some extent. It's reasonable for them to recoup some of those costs just as many other businesses, gov'ts, etc do when material cost impacts are had.

What is there to refute on the nomad stuff. You were incorrect on the nomad fees, I have that written in gold. (I can tell you what HD channel is launching next week right now as well, if you would like).

You do not need MRV as people here have suggested.

The nomad will stream content as well, just not at launch. Meaning the nomad will do things the Slingbox can't as well as things the Slingbox currently does. When that happens, when will Slingbox catch up? :lol: Plus the nomad will be cheaper than most Slingboxes from what I understand.

Yes, I agree that the transcoding process takes time. Honestly, what's the big deal. At night, select your 5 to 10 programs (or whatever number you wish) and transcode them. Wake up in the morning, they're all set for you. Throw them on your iPhone, iPad, PC or whatever in a manner of seconds. Honestly don't see what the big deal is.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

Jeremy W said:


> Hence nothing. DirecTV adds functionality all the time without additional fees. This fee was arbitrary, because DirecTV felt like they could get away with it. And they have.


Incorrect. It adds costs to DTV, nothing arbitrary at all about it. Honestly, when you were wrong about MRV required and wrong about a nomad fee, why should we believe you are right with your other statements on the topic, like suggesting "this fee was arbitrary".

How many wrong statements do you get before we think they are all wrong? :lol:

Aren't you a Uverse customer anyway?


----------



## Jeremy W

ChicagoBlue said:


> Do you not think when they developed MRV and the required SWM and hardware components necessary to utilize the MRV infrastructer they should be able to recoup some of those costs?


If they didn't charge the $3 fee for people who used their own network, that argument would hold some water. But since they do, it's a bad argument.


ChicagoBlue said:


> Your subscription rates do not entitle you to free upgrades. Those folks without MRV are paying those same subscription fees, are they not?


You can say the same thing about every other enhancement that we got for free. People without network connections who can't utilize TV Apps, VOD, MediaShare, YouTube, DirecTV2PC, etc. are also paying the same subscription fee. DirecTV2PC specifically relies on the *same foundation* as MRV. And yet it's free.

The simple fact is, DirecTV charges for MRV because they can. Any further attempts to justify the fee are ridiculous on their face.


----------



## Jeremy W

ChicagoBlue said:


> Incorrect. It adds costs to DTV, nothing arbitrary at all about it.


Everything they do "adds costs." Singling out MRV and charging for it is the definition of arbitrary. I guarantee that costs involved with developing the new HD GUI *far* exceed those of MRV, and there will be no charge for that.


----------



## Jeremy W

ChicagoBlue said:


> Honestly, when you were wrong about MRV required and wrong about a nomad fee


I haven't been proven wrong, and I even said I was only 90% sure on those things. The only things I'm 100% sure about are the technical aspects of it.


----------



## billsharpe

Jeremy W said:


> I'd say the fact that they have a page for it on their website means it'll be available in the near future.


Well, yes, that page does say "coming soon" but that's all it says. Still no mention of price or date availability. There's also an empty FAQ page associated with the product.

Is "near future" the same as "coming soon?" 

Of course I expect to see Nomad eventually (that's a bit further off than the near future ) but a lot of the discussions in this thread as to its popularity hinge on how much DirecTV will charge for this product and exactly what it will do. It's still pretty much speculation until we get details.


----------



## Jeremy W

billsharpe said:


> a lot of the discussions in this thread as to its popularity hinge on how much DirecTV will charge for this product and exactly what it will do. It's still pretty much speculation until we get details.


There is no speculation on what it will do when it's released. Despite what some want to insist, all of the technical aspects I've posted are 100% accurate.

1. Programs can be queued up on the DVR for transfer to Nomad
2. Programs are transferred to Nomad from the DVR in real time
3. The DVR cannot act as an MRV server while transferring to Nomad
4. If the transfer process is interrupted, it must start over from the beginning


----------



## CuriousMark

Please forgive me if these questions are answered above, I did search the thread and have read the last page or so completely, but did not see any definitive answers.

Will the Nomad provide an HD output for laptops with screen resolutions that support HD? Will it also provide the full sound track or just stereo?

The method I currently use gives me DVDs with shows in standard def, but anamorphic widescreen and stereo audio from an S-video and stereo analog audio source. I play these on my laptop when I travel and it works pretty well. The shows are recorded from an HD sat receiver and I spool them onto the DVD at about 15 minutes per disk with 4 1 hour shows per disk, just before travelling. I could also transcode these to smaller sizes on a PC for use on an Android phone if I wished to, but have not tried doing so.

I am just trying to compare the Nomad with my existing system to see if it is enough better to make it worthwile to consider.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.


----------



## Jeremy W

CuriousMark said:


> Will the Nomad provide an HD output for laptops with screen resolutions that support HD? Will it also provide the full sound track or just stereo?


Unknown. My gut says no to both, but it's just a guess.


----------



## Beerstalker

Jeremy W said:


> Unknown. My gut says no to both, but it's just a guess.


I would tend to agree, most likely it will be 480p with stereo audio.



ChicagoBlue said:


> In all of your examples of upgrades, those are pure software upgrades that have no material hardware impact. That is not the case for MRV with DTV. If a customer without a SWM network desires MRV, that costs DTV a lot of money. They need to roll a truck, pay a technician, put in new equipment (sometimes new receivers). In some cases, the customer pays for some of that upgrade, but typically DTV is subsidizing those costs to some extent. It's reasonable for them to recoup some of those costs just as many other businesses, gov'ts, etc do when material cost impacts are had.


That is what the $199 + $49 install charges are for. If DirecTV decides to subsidise that further fine, but it shouldn't be covered by charging $3 a month to everyone with MRV wheter they have DECA/SWM or not. This was a poor decision by DirecTV, and one of the few things that they have done that I have been unhappy about. If it wasn't for my wife complaining about losing MRV when it went public I personally wouldn't be paying for it (I'm still using my unsupported gigabit network).


----------



## CuriousMark

Thanks, my present setup gives me that so I think I will just stick with it for now. I can see this being useful to some though.


----------



## Laxguy

CuriousMark said:


> Will the Nomad provide an HD output for laptops with screen resolutions that support HD? Will it also provide the full sound track or just stereo?
> 
> The method I currently use gives me DVDs with shows in standard def, but anamorphic widescreen and stereo audio from an S-video and stereo analog audio source. I play these on my laptop when I travel and it works pretty well. The shows are recorded from an HD sat receiver and I spool them onto the DVD at about 15 minutes per disk with 4 1 hour shows per disk, just before travelling. I could also transcode these to smaller sizes on a PC for use on an Android phone if I wished to, but have not tried doing so.
> 
> I am just trying to compare the Nomad with my existing system to see if it is enough better to make it worthwile to consider.


I doubt it would be 1920 x 1080, but probably better than DVD. Audio is anyone's guess.

But since I haven't burned a DVD or CD in years, to get around that for me would be worth the switch even if there's no improvement in quality. Here, mileage must vary.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> I doubt it would be 1920 x 1080, but probably better than DVD. Audio is anyone's guess.


Better than DVD, but not HD? Doesn't really make sense.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> Better than DVD, but not HD? Doesn't really make sense.


Since this is the time of the US Open Tennis Tournament,

"You cannot be serious!!"


----------



## LameLefty

Jeremy W said:


> Better than DVD, but not HD? Doesn't really make sense.


Yes it does. It could be 540p, 720p, or some custom resolution setting but still not be 1080p (which is what he said).

That said, I'd expect content on mobile devices to be scaled appropriately to mobile device display sizes and expected viewing distances.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> "You cannot be serious!!"


You do realize there is no standard video resolution between DVD (720x480) and 720p HD (1280x720), right?


----------



## CuriousMark

LameLefty said:


> Yes it does. It could be 540p, 720p, or some custom resolution setting but still not be 1080p (which is what he said).
> 
> That said, I'd expect content on mobile devices to be scaled appropriately to mobile device display sizes and expected viewing distances.


Don't most mobile devices take a 720P input and do that scaling as part of hardware decoding?


----------



## Jeremy W

CuriousMark said:


> Don't most mobile devices take a 720P input and do that scaling as part of hardware decoding?


Most mobile devices will playback video that's at any standard resolution.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> You do realize there is no standard video resolution between DVD (720x480) and 720p HD (1280x720), right?


My statement stands: DVD is not HD. I made no reps re standards.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> My statement stands: DVD is not HD. I made no reps re standards.


Well unless DirecTV is using something other than H.264 (which is highly unlikely) they're going to have to stick to the standard resolutions.


----------



## Beerstalker

Personally I hope they don't mess with getting the resolution any higher than 480p. When you're watching on screens this small you obviously aren't all that worried about watching in the best quality, so 480p should be fine if done right. Plus it takes up much less memory which is limited in these devices.

Aren't most digital copies that come with Blu-Rays/DVDs at 480p or lower?


----------



## mikela

Anyone hear of any release dates yet?


----------



## markrogo

@David/inka, I'm an all-DVR house. The fee feels outrageous and offensive as you guys note/understand. I also agree something Comcast might do would feel similar. My point: It was the first time I felt like I was getting jobbed explicitly by DirecTV for a feature. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

@Shades, if Nomad hits 10% of the DirecTV subscriber base in 2 years, I will eat a printout of the DirecTV annual report. There is simply no chance of this happening. I seriously doubt, in fact, it will exceed 2-3% of the user base. Most people _even after having it explained to them_ will not understand the purpose.


----------



## harsh

mikela said:


> Anyone hear of any release dates yet?


No dates.

Asking every few days is not likely to advance DIRECTV's mostly unshared plans.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> Well unless DirecTV is using something other than H.264 (which is highly unlikely) they're going to have to stick to the standard resolutions.


Ok, I'll bite.

Why couldn't they do arbitrary resolutions the H.264?

Most of the non-computer devices have seemingly random matrix sizes and dimensions and it would be handy to have hardware scaling to make the video match the device rather than forcing a Crackberry to downscale on the fly. I have a tough time imagining they're going to charge monthly fees to apply NDS content protection to 1080p video for use on a iPod.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Why couldn't they do arbitrary resolutions the H.264?


They could. My post was incorrect.


----------



## beeper3000

Anybody else see this on their Directv account? I think the launch is getting closer!!


----------



## dpeters11

Not showing up here.


----------



## beeper3000

dpeters11 said:


> Not showing up here.


did you go under My Equipment and then click on accessories tab?


----------



## Justin23

Just checked and didn't see nomad listed. How is yours showing as "Active"? What shows up when you click the "more" link next to nomad?


----------



## beeper3000

Justin23 said:


> Just checked and didn't see nomad listed. How is yours showing as "Active"? What shows up when you click the "more" link next to nomad?


it brings me to the nomad site, where it shows coming soon.


----------



## Justin23

Hmmmm, interesting. What about trying to add additional devices like your screenshot shows?


----------



## dpeters11

beeper3000 said:


> did you go under My Equipment and then click on accessories tab?


Yep. See the option of the AM21, but no Nomad.


----------



## beeper3000

Justin23 said:


> Hmmmm, interesting. What about trying to add additional devices like your screenshot shows?


brings me to the same nomad coming soon website.


----------



## nike5580

I just see the AM21 as well.


----------



## harsh

From the description, it would seem to be your dish as opposed to the nomad.

The database weenies at DIRECTV certainly have their problems.


----------



## KenW

Doesn't show for me either. Yes, I went to that tab. I see my AM21.


----------



## Justin23

"harsh" said:


> From the description, it would seem to be your dish as opposed to the nomad.
> 
> The database weenies at DIRECTV certainly have their problems.


Glutton for punishment?


----------



## Sixto

DirecTV's Nomad to Link DVR With iPad:http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=158768

"The device will carry a projected one-time cost of about $150, with no ensuing subscription charges."​


----------



## Jeremy W

Sixto said:


> "The device will carry a projected one-time cost of about $150, with no ensuing subscription charges."


Sounds like they've made the right call.


----------



## Justin85

I agree a subscription model wouldn't be a good option, but if this device only allows the transfer of recordings to a mobile device, why not spend a couple more dollars, get a sling box and watch anything you want, including live tv?


----------



## Jeremy W

Justin85 said:


> I agree a subscription model wouldn't be a good option, but if this device only allows the transfer of recordings to a mobile device, why not spend a couple more dollars, get a sling box and watch anything you want, including live tv?


Slingbox requires you to have a constant Internet connection, Nomad will not.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Sixto said:


> DirecTV's Nomad to Link DVR With iPad:http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=158768
> 
> "The device will carry a projected one-time cost of about $150, with no ensuing subscription charges."​


Sounds like I've been right the whole time about the pricing on Nomad.


----------



## Beerstalker

Little bit higher than I was hoping (I was thinking more like $99), but not as bad as I feared. Also I'm definitely happy to hear it won't have a monthly fee, I guess they figured between the $7 DVR fee, and $3 MRV fee they couldn't get away with another one.


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> Slingbox requires you to have a constant Internet connection, Nomad will not.


And Internet Connectivity is getting More Expensive with more and more Bandwidth Caps being put in place and with Tiered Pricing Netstreaming is going to be Very Expensive in the near future as more and more savvy technogeeks cause Netstreaming to be more Mainstream!!!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"richierich" said:


> And Internet Connectivity is getting More Expensive with more and more Bandwidth Caps being put in place and with Tiered Pricing Netstreaming is going to be Very Expensive in the near future as more and more savvy technogeeks cause Netstreaming to be more Mainstream!!!


Ehh not so sure bout bandwidth caps. Maybe for certain cell providers but even the most greedy of them all cable providers TWC ran trials of tiered data plans and ended up doing away with them I thought.

Btw where all those ppl at that were saying nomad would for sure have a separate fee? Lol jk


----------



## YakeVlad

The lack of Live TV streaming with Nomad kills my interest in it. I'm disappointed with the fact that despite many other providers offering such a capability that DirecTV failed to step up to the plate.



richierich said:


> And Internet Connectivity is getting More Expensive with more and more Bandwidth Caps being put in place and with Tiered Pricing Netstreaming is going to be Very Expensive in the near future as more and more savvy technogeeks cause Netstreaming to be more Mainstream!!!


I see the bandwidth situation a bit differently. Currently yes that is the direction of things, but we're quickly reaching the boiling point. There are two sides lining up for battle (ISPs and telcos on one side, with streaming services and customer demand on the other). The tension is building and before long a fight is going to break out. The warning shot was already fired with the Net Neutrality debate. That one came close to getting ugly and down right dirty. The next one over pricing and bandwidth will be an all out no-holds slugfest.

There are more and more streaming services coming out each year with an ever growing customer base demanding additional services. However, the associated bandwidth costs money and someone has to either pay the bill or find a cheaper way to deliver the necessary bandwidth. The ISPs and telcos are reacting now by raising prices to try and slow the growth of heavy bandwidth consuming users on their networks. Their problem today isn't the 2%-5% its the prospect of that small minority becoming a majority. With the number of smartphones sold growing each quarter they are coming closer and closer to that potential. But the current strategy of price increases and bandwidth caps/throttling will only have a temporary effect. Once the smartphone customer base reaches a critical mass the ISPs and telcos hands will be forced one way or another.

The ISPs and telcos may have been able to sweep away the streaming service companies if they struck when it was all in its infancy, but now they are too many, with too large a customer base, and with an established market clamoring for more. The streaming service companies aren't going to go away, nor is the demand for their products. Now add to that smartphone & tablet manufacturers, smartphone & tablet OS makers, SmartTV's, PS3's, and Xbox360's(soon) which derive marketing and significant sales off of streaming apps. You now have a formidable army of corporations with the deep pockets and legions of lawyers at the ready to take on anyone who tries to affect their bottom line by poisoning the demand for their devices with excessive fees.

Something has to give and it will. Either the two sides will work it out, or once enough outrage has built up either the ISPs and telcos will divine a solution, being able to drop pricing and caps, or there will be some savvy entrepreneur who comes along with a new business model and technology delivering that for which customers are looking. Necessity is the mother of invention.


----------



## spartanstew

YakeVlad said:


> The lack of Live TV streaming with Nomad kills my interest in it. I'm disappointed with the fact that despite many other providers offering such a capability that DirecTV failed to step up to the plate.


And IMO, that's what will make Nomad better than what the others offer. If what I've read is true, they stepped up to the plate and hit a homer. With everyone and their brother offering GO products with an internet connection, that seems almost pointless.


----------



## YakeVlad

spartanstew said:


> And IMO, that's what will make Nomad better than what the others offer. If what I've read is true, they stepped up to the plate and hit a homer. With everyone and their brother offering GO products with an internet connection, that seems almost pointless.


I respect your opinion and I recognize there are others out there that share your position. Don't get me wrong. I think that the ability to transfer DVR content to mobile devices is an important capability and a good addition to DirecTV's offerings. However, IMHO it is half of a solution, just as TV Everywhere offerings from other providers are half solutions. Here's why I say that:

Scenario 1
You're away from home, but somewhere that you have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You want to watch the new episode of (insert show name) or a big game live. With the TV Everywhere offerings that's no problem. However, if you're somewhere that you don't have access you're up the creek on being able to watch anything (no recorded content).

Scenario 2 
You're away from home, but somewhere that you don't have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You want to watch the latest episode of (insert show name) or a movie. With Nomad that's no problem. However, if you're somewhere that you do have access and you want to watch today/tonight's new episode or the big game live, you're up the creek on being able to watch anything (no Live TV content).

Scenario 3 
You're away from home, but somewhere that you have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You forgot to transfer the latest episode of (insert show name) or a movie onto your mobile device before you left home. So you open up your handy mobile app, which authenticates your registered device and stream the DVR content to it. None of the providers that I'm aware of have a solution for this, a gaping whole in the current solutions.

Both scenarios 1 and 2 are *HALF* solutions as they both have their limitations and hinder your ability to view the content you're really after. A *complete* solution would have 3 important elements:


Live TV streaming
Ability to transfer DVR content
Ability to stream DVR content


----------



## Laxguy

I understand that that's what you'd like. Others, too.

But I am quite happy taking my iPad with me, with a bunch of shows I might like to see already on there. If there's something I have to see that night, I'll find it live, or simply record it at home and wait till I get back. 

The expense of having it your way has to be high.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> The expense of having it your way has to be high.


Not really. Although it requires two devices, a Nomad and a Slingbox would take care of all three scenarios.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> Not really. Although it requires two devices, a Nomad and a Slingbox would take care of all three scenarios.


What a mess.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> What a mess.


 Not really.


----------



## Rage187

Ok idea. Not what I expected but I could use it with multiple iPads in the house.

Here is my concern. $150 is just too much. At MRV pricing, that is 50 months of subscription fees. 

4 years, where do you think hardware will be in 4 years? Likely way past where this thing is. Heck, in 2 years all of this nomad hardware will be out of date, as it won't support what ever amazing resolution the iPad 4 will support.

Sorry, future proofing wise, this thing is relevant for the next 18 months.


----------



## Jeremy W

Rage187 said:


> Here is my concern. $150 is just too much. At MRV pricing, that is 50 months of subscription fees.


Since when did MRV pricing become a standard measurement of time? This is an absurd comparison.


----------



## sigma1914

Jeremy W said:


> Since when did MRV pricing become a standard measurement of time? This is an absurd comparison.


Agreed. This thing is a piece of electronic gear that takes your video, does it's "magic," and puts it on your devices. DVD recorders, BR burners,etc all cost money...so should NOMAD. $150 is pretty fair, IMO.


----------



## inkahauts

Rage187 said:


> Ok idea. Not what I expected but I could use it with multiple iPads in the house.
> 
> Here is my concern. $150 is just too much. At MRV pricing, that is 50 months of subscription fees.
> 
> 4 years, where do you think hardware will be in 4 years? Likely way past where this thing is. Heck, in 2 years all of this nomad hardware will be out of date, as it won't support what ever amazing resolution the iPad 4 will support.
> 
> Sorry, future proofing wise, this thing is relevant for the next 18 months.


You seem to be assuming that the unit can't convert something at the same quality that it is recorded on the HRs at. If it can, and also lower quality, then I don't see the issue. Directv won't be going away from MPEG4 so there is no issue with what it can read. And no reason it can't be updated to conform to any new standard that comes out, but as we have seen over the years, old solid standards never disappear, so anything it can output today will be able to be palyed by anythign that comes out for a very long time.



YakeVlad said:


> I respect your opinion and I recognize there are others out there that share your position. Don't get me wrong. I think that the ability to transfer DVR content to mobile devices is an important capability and a good addition to DirecTV's offerings. However, IMHO it is half of a solution, just as TV Everywhere offerings from other providers are half solutions. Here's why I say that:
> 
> Scenario 1
> You're away from home, but somewhere that you have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You want to watch the new episode of (insert show name) or a big game live. With the TV Everywhere offerings that's no problem. However, if you're somewhere that you don't have access you're up the creek on being able to watch anything (no recorded content).
> 
> Scenario 2
> You're away from home, but somewhere that you don't have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You want to watch the latest episode of (insert show name) or a movie. With Nomad that's no problem. However, if you're somewhere that you do have access and you want to watch today/tonight's new episode or the big game live, you're up the creek on being able to watch anything (no Live TV content).
> 
> Scenario 3
> You're away from home, but somewhere that you have Wifi / 4G / 3G access. You forgot to transfer the latest episode of (insert show name) or a movie onto your mobile device before you left home. So you open up your handy mobile app, which authenticates your registered device and stream the DVR content to it. None of the providers that I'm aware of have a solution for this, a gaping whole in the current solutions.
> 
> Both scenarios 1 and 2 are *HALF* solutions as they both have their limitations and hinder your ability to view the content you're really after. A *complete* solution would have 3 important elements:
> 
> 
> Live TV streaming
> Ability to transfer DVR content
> Ability to stream DVR content


You seem to be assuming that this device can only do a transfer, and that this device is the only thing they are going to use to allow for tv anywhere. I doubt both of those are true, in fact I'd say its more than likely that the nomad can stream if enabled to do so, and we already know the hr's can, they simply lack an ipad/??? app at the moment, but nothing says that won't come at some point. I'd say this device is what will allow them to be able to fulfill all three of your scenarios, something that no other carrier is doing. The key in it all is still contracts with broadcasters.


----------



## mattgwyther

"inkahauts" said:


> The key in it all is still contracts with broadcasters.


I think you hit the nail on the head. In the earning call DirecTV stated they are working on Nomad, a box to iPad app for inside the house, and increasing their TVEverywhere portal all in Q4. When asked about streaming outside the house, they were concerned about rights holders and were stay away from it.


----------



## RAD

mattgwyther said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head. In the earning call DirecTV stated they are working on Nomad, a box to iPad app for inside the house, and increasing their TVEverywhere portal all in Q4. When asked about streaming outside the house, they were concerned about rights holders and were stay away from it.


I get the feeling that for streaming they prefer to just let the content providers set up their own portals for doing that and just authenticate against DIRECTV to see if they are a customer. If you listened to White's comments about streaming in some conference calls earlier this year he mentioned that the best quality for streaming was if it came directly from the provider, using an example of wathcing the Superbowl via a streaming session directly from Fox. If the likes of HBO and Turner are going to set up their own streaming services I guess DIRECTV might think why should we go the expense of setting up our own?

And what I've seen about nomad is that it's mainly for use outside the home, since the content is stored on the iPad, so you can use it when no network connection is available.


----------



## mattgwyther

"RAD" said:


> I get the feeling that for streaming they prefer to just let the content providers set up their own portals for doing that and just authenticate against DIRECTV to see if they are a customer. If you listened to White's comments about streaming in some conference calls earlier this year he mentioned that the best quality for streaming was if it came directly from the provider, using an example of wathcing the Superbowl via a streaming session directly from Fox. If the likes of HBO and Turner are going to set up their own streaming services I guess DIRECTV might think why should we go the expense of setting up our own?
> 
> And what I've seen about nomad is that it's mainly for use outside the home, since the content is stored on the iPad, so you can use it when no network connection is available.


I agree, with one exception. I think DirecTV integrate the other sites into their current MyDireTV page. Basically linking to the other site Pre-authenticated.

You will see an iPad app for streaming inside to house/LAN, maybe something for transferring files, maybe something for accessing all the TVEverywhere from one app. My guess is that DAFI will get A LOT more feature rich in later versions!


----------



## Jeremy W

mattgwyther said:


> My guess is that DAFI will get A LOT more feature rich in later versions!


OK, I give up. What's DAFI?


----------



## Beerstalker

*D*irectv *A*pp *F*or *I*pad


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> *D*irectv *A*pp *F*or *I*pad


Wow, that's stupid.


----------



## Beerstalker

Yep, quite a few of us told them it was a dumb name when they came up with it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> Wow, that's stupid.


Then again....others may not agree.

It's also old news.


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again....others may not agree.


Wait, everyone may not agree with my opinion? This is an outrage!


hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's also old news.


I don't care.


----------



## Crow159

Nomad available tomorrow according to Gizmodo!


----------



## RobertE

Crow159 said:


> Nomad available tomorrow according to Gizmodo!


Not sure if tomorrow is the live date or not, but I can say that care agents have been getting training on it this week. So, it's really close now.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

> The Nomad is not available for lease and will cost customers $149.99 plus 9.99 for shipping


So you have to buy a device in order to use it?


----------



## Jeremy W

TheRatPatrol said:


> So you have to buy a device in order to use it?


Well Nomad is a device, so yeah...


----------



## HoTat2

TheRatPatrol said:


> So you have to buy a device in order to use it?


That plus have the appropriate app installed on the device you're downloading the transcoded but encrypted program files to.

But I wonder what this 30 day download limit is about? 30 days to download a program file before it self deletes off the Nomad unit, or to use it once downloaded before the app auto-deletes it?


----------



## Jeremy W

HoTat2 said:


> But I wonder what this 30 day download limit is about? 30 days to download a program file before it self deletes off the Nomad unit, or to use it once downloaded before the app deletes auto-deletes it?


The way it's worded, it sounds like 30 days to transfer it to your device from Nomad. But it would make more sense for it to only live on your device for 30 days.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

what im wondering is how the Directv app plays a roll into this. I take it they will be updating the app for iphone and android at the same time to support it? Otherwise I can't see how the app ties into Nomad. Would of thought someone would of seen some strings in the apps relating to nomad by now if that were the case.

Also the article states "Programs pushed to the device[NOMAD] are available for download to a PC, iOS device, or Android device for 30 days." I wondering how you select programs to push to the device if its done via the receiver. Maybe when you plug NOMAD into your network the HR2X's automatically recognize it and create a new option to push programs to the device, OR you access NOMAD somehow via a PC on the network and you select programs to pull down to nomad from HR2X's playlists? OR must NOMAD record the program live so you would have to set it up that way?

Lot of questions here and possibilities. More than I can think of any other time that DirecTV has released something new.....probably b/c some reason we didn't have a trial for this or if we did, we didn't have a first look before hand, or we did have a first look and its waaayyyyy too early in the morning here for me to be using my brain and I simply forgot about it. lol


----------



## Mike Bertelson

TheRatPatrol said:


> So you have to buy a device in order to use it?


Like everything else in your home entertainment center. 

Mike


----------



## cypherx

Eh...
Volkano flow. $99. You own it. You can hook any set top box to it.
Streaming. Live TV or whatever's on your DVR / MRV / VOD playlist.

Nomad. $150 plus shipping. It's not yours. It only works with DirecTV.
No Streaming. Plan ahead content transcoding/moving. Takes up storage space on your mobile device. No live TV.

I'll pass on Nomad.


----------



## Shades228

cypherx said:


> Eh...
> Volkano flow. $99. You own it. You can hook any set top box to it.
> Streaming. Live TV or whatever's on your DVR / MRV / VOD playlist.
> 
> Nomad. $150 plus shipping. It's not yours. It only works with DirecTV.
> No Streaming. Plan ahead content transcoding/moving. Takes up storage space on your mobile device. No live TV.
> 
> I'll pass on Nomad.


Nomad is owned it's not leased.

Nomad is also better quality video as well as you won't run into dhcp or other issues that might come up soon.


----------



## cypherx

Shades228 said:


> Nomad is owned it's not leased.
> 
> Nomad is also better quality video as well as you won't run into dhcp or other issues that might come up soon.


Oh my bad. But if you ever drop DirecTV, what good is it. At least Sling or Vulkano work with any provider.

$150 is not in my ballpark.

Strike 2 Directv.
(Strike 1 was DirecTivo on outdated hardware using the UI from 10 years ago).


----------



## syphix

cypherx said:


> (Strike 1 was DirecTivo on outdated hardware using the UI from 10 years ago).


Strike 1 was TiVo's fault, not DirecTV's.


----------



## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> But I wonder what this 30 day download limit is about? 30 days to download a program file before it self deletes off the Nomad unit, or to use it once downloaded before the app auto-deletes it?


If they do such a thing, I would expect that it is 30 days after the program is satcast/broadcast. In this version of the story, both the nomad encoding and any remote encodings would age out and expire.

Another question is whether or not you can copy a particular recording to more than one terminal device.


----------



## man_rob

The price isn't too bad. The deal killer for me would have been if they had required a monthly fee. The 30 day expiration date sounds to me like a concession from Directv to appease content providers. If the device is severely hobbled by blocked content, (aside from the PPV, 3D, or On Demand restrictions) then I doubt I'd be interested, but on paper, it seems promising. 

Since I have unlimited 4g data, and am in WiFi 90% pretty much everyday, streaming TV shows is my first choice over having to transcode, then transfer video from the Nomad to my devices before I go anywhere. 

What might sell me on the device is if the transfer process is wireless from the Nomad to my devices, completely automated, and controlled from the DVR. By that I mean, just selecting "Send To" on the DVR and video appears on the device of my choosing via my home wireless network, although, having remote access would be even better. I suppose another way could be if you could wirelessly browse videos on the Nomad from the mobile device, and select videos for transfer. Again, having remote access to do this would be a selling point. Also, I wonder if you can set up a "season pass" sort of process where programs can just be automatically sent to the Nomad, and preferably, to the mobile device as well?


----------



## Jeremy W

man_rob said:


> What might sell me on the device is if the transfer process is wireless from the Nomad to my devices, completely automated, and controlled from the DVR.


I don't see that happening, but it would be cool.


----------



## spartanstew

man_rob said:


> The deal killer for me would have been if they had required a monthly fee.


Don't forget, Jeremy's 100% sure there'll be an additional monthly fee, so probably a deal killer for you.


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> Don't forget, Jeremy's 100% sure there'll be an additional monthly fee, so probably a deal killer for you.


:nono2: Never said that.


Jeremy W said:


> The only things I'm 100% sure about are the technical aspects of it.


[redacted]


----------



## spartanstew

My bad, you were only 90% sure. Still waiting to find out what the content restrictions are though - that you were 100% sure on (along with the "clunky implementation" which seems to be a matter of opinion and the "copy to Nomad then to the portable", which is a bit of a Duh).



spartanstew said:


> What points?
> 
> Multiple Monthly fees?
> Unbelievably clunky implementation?
> Copy to your Nomad and then to your portable?
> Content restrictions apply?





Jeremy W said:


> Aside from the monthly fee thing, which I'm only 90% sure on, I'm 100% sure he's correct on the rest of his points.


----------



## jeffcarp

The lack of streaming for me, is not a deal breaker. The ability to watch a show on an airplane, on a subway, in an airport (with only paid wifi available), is something that is very appealing to me. If I understand the way this works, and the way alternative solutions work like the Monsoon or Slingbox, there is one huge advantage to the Nomad for my particular situation. When I travel and would use the Nomad, I am traveling on business with my family at home. I want to watch my recorded programs, but I can only do that if I am not remotely screwing up my family's viewing habits at the same time. They need to be able to watch what they want to watch, without me remotely interfering with that. With the Nomad, as I understand it, my use of the Nomad remoting is completely transparent to a viewer at home. 

My only question is to confirm that "sending" a program to the Nomad from the DVR doesn't remove it from the DVR. I need to be able to watch a show remotely from the Nomad, while at the same time, leaving it for my wife to watch at home from the DVR. Deleting it off the Nomad in 30 days is fine. My trip will be a couple days at the most. Deleting it off the DVR within 30 days if I transfer it to Nomad is not good.


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> Still waiting to find out what the content restrictions are though - that you were 100% sure on.


PPV, 3D, VOD, CCI Copy Once/Copy Never.

I received information that I was not compelled to keep quiet, and I shared it. The technical stuff, as I stated, was 100% correct. The fee wasn't set, although I was fairly sure and I communicated that. Turns out there is no fee. *Things change, and I never said it was for sure.* I never saw you posting any factual information here.


----------



## spartanstew

jeffcarp said:


> The lack of streaming for me, is not a deal breaker. The ability to watch a show on an airplane, on a subway, in an airport (with only paid wifi available), is something that is very appealing to me. If I understand the way this works, and the way alternative solutions work like the Monsoon or Slingbox, there is one huge advantage to the Nomad for my particular situation. When I travel and would use the Nomad, I am traveling on business with my family at home. I want to watch my recorded programs, but I can only do that if I am not remotely screwing up my family's viewing habits at the same time. They need to be able to watch what they want to watch, without me remotely interfering with that. With the Nomad, as I understand it, my use of the Nomad remoting is completely transparent to a viewer at home.
> 
> My only question is to confirm that "sending" a program to the Nomad from the DVR doesn't remove it from the DVR. I need to be able to watch a show remotely from the Nomad, while at the same time, leaving it for my wife to watch at home from the DVR. Deleting it off the Nomad in 30 days is fine. My trip will be a couple days at the most. Deleting it off the DVR within 30 days if I transfer it to Nomad is not good.


I imagine it will be perfect for you - and many others. I can't imagine it deleting a program from the DVR once it's been transferred to Nomad.


----------



## Justin23

Jeremy W said:


> I received information that I was not compelled to keep quiet, and I shared it. The technical stuff, as I stated, was 100% correct. The fee wasn't set, although I was fairly sure and I communicated that. Turns out there is no fee.


There was a headline on the main page of DBSTalk that I saw earlier today (since removed) that had a First Look & Manual for the nomad. In the manual one of the requirements for using the nomad device was a "Mobile DVR" fee.

The exact wording: "Subscription to Mobile DVR service
- Mobile DVR service will be added to your account during the application setup process on your computer or mobile device."


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

More i ponder the article saying the DirecTV App plays a roll in Nomad the more I worry that android users will suffer once again and iOS/iPhone/iPad will get it WAY before android which seems to of been the current theme with DirecTV. Android has much too large of a dominating market share to be put on back seat still.....still waiting on the ipad app version ported over too.

Hopefully it somehow just ties in with the scheduler thats already out now and not require a completely new app. But if I was them I'd just do away with the scheduler app and make the only app out the one on the ipad to be honest. and say if your phones screen is less than 4in you can't use it or have different layouts for said phones. 

oh well theres my semi rant that i pray am proven wrong.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Please stay on topic. The topic is nomad, not our members. Last warning.


----------



## Jeremy W

Justin23 said:


> There was a headline on the main page of DBSTalk that I saw earlier today (since removed) that had a First Look & Manual for the nomad. In the manual one of the requirements for using the nomad device was a "Mobile DVR" fee.


Yeah, what a crazy surprise.  But I just sit here and make stuff up, so I guess I just got lucky on that.

Because it couldn't be that they were so sure they'd have a fee, like 90% sure, that they'd put it in the manual, but then change their minds. Nope, definitely not.


----------



## Justin23

spartanstew said:


> No, you had information that may or may not have been correct at the time (in a beta or working prototype).
> 
> But that's often not the case (like apparently with the Nomad fee).
> 
> Change is a constant.


It's quite possible that at the time, the Mobile DVR fee was going to be a part of the nomad product. I did see a presentation by Tyler Slocum and he mentioned that the nomad won't have a monthly fee associated with the service. It would be a one time purchase cost of $149.

But like you said, things do change.


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> More i ponder the article saying the DirecTV App plays a roll in Nomad the more I worry that android users will suffer once again and iOS/iPhone/iPad will get it WAY before android which seems to of been the current theme with DirecTV.


I think you may be reading too much into the term "app". It is perhaps just as likely that it is a independent app.

Integration of streaming with the DIRECTV App would seem an imperative but not so with a media player application.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

harsh said:


> I think you may be reading too much into the term "app". It is perhaps just as likely that it is a independent app.
> 
> Integration of streaming with the DIRECTV App would seem an imperative but not so with a media player application.


ehh i dunno. if i was them i would be planning this with the mindset that whatever is used for it now will be the method to use it for streaming to keep it all in one app. multiple apps is not good idea the more you branch out. better to have it all in one place.


----------



## robd54

I think not needing an internet connection to watch your shows it pretty key. My biggest question after reading all of today's posts is when is this getting released!? Being able to copy down kid shows to my iOS device for my kids as opposed to needing an internet connection to stream or buying/ripping will be valuable to us!


----------



## Jeremy W

robd54 said:


> My biggest question after reading all of today's posts is when is this getting released!?


It was supposed to be today. I don't know if it'll be later today, or if it's been delayed for some reason.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Yeahhhhhhh......

there were rumors about it being today, there's a post over at gizmodo and some other information has come across my desk, but so far nothing firm.


----------



## billsharpe

I figured that this thread would be a year old before Nomad became available to customers. Looks like I'm wrong, but only by a week or so...


----------



## spartanstew

You're not wrong yet.


----------



## Tom Robertson

How many people are repeatedly hitting F5 on http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/nomad?


----------



## sigma1914

Tom Robertson said:


> How many people are repeatedly hitting F5 on http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/nomad?


I would be if there was a HR34 page.


----------



## Blankman2k5

Justin23 said:


> There was a headline on the main page of DBSTalk that I saw earlier today (since removed) that had a First Look & Manual for the nomad. In the manual one of the requirements for using the nomad device was a "Mobile DVR" fee.
> 
> The exact wording: "Subscription to Mobile DVR service
> - Mobile DVR service will be added to your account during the application setup process on your computer or mobile device."


There will be a mobile dvr service, however, there is no fee for that service... The same with the DirecTV Cinema Service...


----------



## Alan Gordon

Tom Robertson said:


> How many people are repeatedly hitting F5 on http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/nomad?


Not me...



sigma1914 said:


> I would be if there was a HR34 page.


Just because we haven't found one yet... 

~Alan


----------



## mikela

Unless you are able to access shows remotly and not just transfer them while at home i think Nomad might fail.


----------



## mikela

mikela said:


> Unless you are able to access shows remotly and not just transfer them while at home i think Nomad might fail.


Meaning at least have the option to download the show remotly.


----------



## spartanstew

mikela said:


> Unless you are able to access shows remotly and not just transfer them while at home i think Nomad might fail.


Perhaps, but there's other products that do that. Not many that will do what Nomad apparently will.

I had a SNAFU last week where I forgot to program some of the new shows, so I missed a whole bunch on Thursday night. No biggie, I just watched them directly from the channel's websites over the weekend (FOX, ABC, etc.). You can do that now with most shows so it takes the thrill of streaming away (probably can't do it immediately when a show's airing, but I rarely watch anything same day, anyway).

When I travel, I can already watch shows that I'm recording at home via websites (HBOGO, etc.) and Nomad just adds something extra (transfer and take shows or movies with me).

I can see how it might not be for everyone, but I think it will appeal to more people than surmise, especially as TOGO programming continues to become more prevalent.


----------



## bobinyuma

I very much look forward to NOMAD. I have a slingbox already, and its a great device, but NOMAD actually fits better for my needs. Cruises, lots of travel to Mexico, camping in the desert, etc. Especially after the stellar job that Directv did with the IPAD app and the recent upgrade.

Bob


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> ehh i dunno. if i was them i would be planning this with the mindset that whatever is used for it now will be the method to use it for streaming to keep it all in one app. multiple apps is not good idea the more you branch out. better to have it all in one place.


I disagree. The only attraction of the nomad is not needing an Internet connection but if you require a connection to your home LAN to run the app, what's the point?

Adding to and playing from your device's playlist is an entirely different proposition than managing your DVR's playlist.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

The attraction would be bringing DIRECTV content with you on the road where there's poor 3G service, or into a hotel room where internet speeds are notoriously slow, or into a hospital where wireless devices are not allowed. Or, for that matter, onto an airplane.

I can think of a lot of times when a non-connected device beats a connected one.


----------



## harsh

spartanstew said:


> Not many that will do what Nomad apparently will.


I guess it comes down to what resolution the nomad offers.

If, as detailed in the Gizmodo article, the files are only twice the size as the "SD" versions, that's probably not much of a jump up in PQ and you might actually do better with a cheap computer-based video capture device (or DVD recorder) and not have to do battle with the expirations and device specific apps.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

harsh said:


> I disagree. The only attraction of the nomad is not needing an Internet connection but if you require a connection to your home LAN to run the app, what's the point?
> 
> Adding to and playing from your device's playlist is an entirely different proposition than managing your DVR's playlist.


By the sound of it though it WILL req an internet connection as it will have to connect to DirecTV's server and verify you have ther service on the account.

and even if it didn't you can have the app have parts function that req connection and some that dont easily. Regardless if its all related 1 app is better in the end.

BUT now that i think about it its likely the device at home is the only thing that needs the internet connection and not the app at all.


----------



## harsh

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> BUT now that i think about it its likely the device at home is the only thing that needs the internet connection and not the app at all.


Now you're catching on. 

The iPad app requires such a connection, doesn't it?


----------



## LameLefty

harsh said:


> The iPad app requires such a connection, doesn't it?


No, it does not.


----------



## Jeremy W

LameLefty said:


> No, it does not.


Unless they've changed the app since I got rid of my iPad, it absolutely does. You have to login to your DirecTV.com account in order to use it, and it downloads all of the guide data over the Internet as well.


----------



## LameLefty

Jeremy W said:


> Unless they've changed the app since I got rid of my iPad, it absolutely does. You have to login to your DirecTV.com account in order to use it, and it downloads all of the guide data over the Internet as well.


Since everyone else in this ridiculous thread is splitting hairs and parsing with absurdly sharp knives, I thought I would as well: I didn't say it was "functional."

There's obviously a lesson here, but I'll leave it to you.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

So guess that source speaking to gizmodo was a lil off....

someone shoulda called up and tried to order it saying gizmodo said it was available and see what happens. haha


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> So guess that source speaking to gizmodo was a lil off....


Or plans changed at the last minute.


----------



## inkahauts

man_rob said:


> The price isn't too bad. The deal killer for me would have been if they had required a monthly fee. The 30 day expiration date sounds to me like a concession from Directv to appease content providers. If the device is severely hobbled by blocked content, (aside from the PPV, 3D, or On Demand restrictions) then I doubt I'd be interested, but on paper, it seems promising.
> 
> Since I have unlimited 4g data, and am in WiFi 90% pretty much everyday, streaming TV shows is my first choice over having to transcode, then transfer video from the Nomad to my devices before I go anywhere.
> 
> What might sell me on the device is if the transfer process is wireless from the Nomad to my devices, completely automated, and controlled from the DVR. By that I mean, just selecting "Send To" on the DVR and video appears on the device of my choosing via my home wireless network, although, having remote access would be even better. I suppose another way could be if you could wirelessly browse videos on the Nomad from the mobile device, and select videos for transfer. Again, having remote access to do this would be a selling point. Also, I wonder if you can set up a "season pass" sort of process where programs can just be automatically sent to the Nomad, and preferably, to the mobile device as well?


If it runs wirelessly, I would almost expect it to be controlled by the mobile device more so than the dvr. Who knows. Guess we will see soon enough.


----------



## inkahauts

Stuart Sweet said:


> The attraction would be bringing DIRECTV content with you on the road where there's poor 3G service, or into a hotel room where internet speeds are notoriously slow, or into a hospital where wireless devices are not allowed. Or, for that matter, onto an airplane.
> 
> I can think of a lot of times when a non-connected device beats a connected one.


If I where crazy enough to guess Directv plans, I'd say that Directv will eventually allow for 4 ways to watch Directv off of something other than their regular STB, this first Nomad release being the 3rd step..

1. Streaming from a dvr to your ipad, pc, etc in your home, ala the DirecTV2PC app which will I am guessing soon be transformed into a cleaner app. (to pc here now, to other devices, I would say in the next 6 months to a year.

2. HBO 2 go, etc apps that are tied into your Directv Account.

3. Nomad, with file transfers, coming very soon.

4. Internet streaming via nomad, in 2013 (probably restricted to certain channels based on contracts with channels, and guess based on Mike Whites past comments saying that's when it should be expected.)


----------



## inkahauts

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> By the sound of it though it WILL req an internet connection as it will have to connect to DirecTV's server and verify you have ther service on the account.
> 
> and even if it didn't you can have the app have parts function that req connection and some that dont easily. Regardless if its all related 1 app is better in the end.
> 
> BUT now that i think about it its likely the device at home is the only thing that needs the internet connection and not the app at all.


I wouldn't be surprise if the first iteration of the nomad app for ios, etc, will be a separate app than the current directv ipad app. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they eventually integrated the two.


----------



## harsh

LameLefty said:


> No, it does not.


Absent authentication, what will the DAFI do?


----------



## tonyd79

"harsh" said:


> Absent authentication, what will the DAFI do?


I turned off network services on my iPad. It sat there for longer than I had patience to endure looking for a network connection.

That was on the road via 3g only. I did not try to use it in my network cut off from the world.


----------



## Beerstalker

My guess is the NOMAD itself will have to have internet access so it can verify that you have active DirecTV service and other things before it will even create the video file for your portable device. 

Once the file is created though, I don't believe the app you use to play the file will need internet access, if it does it kind of defeats the whole purpose. The whole purpose of NOMAD is to allow you to take your devices anywhere, whether there is internet service available or not.


----------



## Jeremy W

Beerstalker said:


> My guess is the NOMAD itself will have to have internet access so it can verify that you have active DirecTV service and other things before it will even create the video file for your portable device.


It has to pull the content off the DVR, and the DVR already knows whether you're authorized to view the content or not.


----------



## Steve

Beerstalker said:


> My guess is the NOMAD itself will have to have internet access so it can verify that you have active DirecTV service and other things before it will even create the video file for your portable device.





Jeremy W said:


> It has to pull the content off the DVR, and the DVR already knows whether you're authorized to view the content or not.


No matter how it knows, the idea that only current customers will be able to create Nomad videos makes sense to me.



Beerstalker said:


> Once the file is created though, I don't believe the app you use to play the file will need internet access, if it does it kind of defeats the whole purpose. The whole purpose of NOMAD is to allow you to take your devices anywhere, whether there is internet service available or not.


This sounds right as well, so I hope it's true! What if I was sitting in a plane, on a train or back seat of an automobile?


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve said:


> No matter how it knows, the idea that only current customers will be able to access Nomad videos makes sense to me.


Well, "the rumor" is that video content transferred from Nomad expires after 30 days. So theoretically, assuming the Nomad playback app does not require Internet access, you could cancel your DirecTV account and still have access to all of the stuff on your device(s) for up to 30 additional days.


----------



## Steve

Jeremy W said:


> Well, "the rumor" is that video content transferred from Nomad expires after 30 days. So theoretically, assuming the Nomad playback app does not require Internet access, you could cancel your DirecTV account and still have access to all of the stuff on your device(s) for up to 30 additional days.


Agree. For that reason, I actually did a Ninja edit before you responded, and changed "access" to "create".


----------



## spartanstew

Jeremy W said:


> Well, "the rumor" is that video content transferred from Nomad expires after 30 days. So theoretically, assuming the Nomad playback app does not require Internet access, you could cancel your DirecTV account and still have access to all of the stuff on your device(s) for up to 30 additional days.


assuming your device doesn't connect to the internet in those 30 days, right?


----------



## Jeremy W

spartanstew said:


> assuming your device doesn't connect to the internet in those 30 days, right?


Well that depends on whether the app actually has the ability to verify the account status or not. I could see them simply not bothering with this capability.

And just for the record, so I don't hear any crap about it, I have zero information on how the apps themselves actually work.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> Well, "the rumor" is that video content transferred from Nomad expires after 30 days. So theoretically, assuming the Nomad playback app does not require Internet access, you could cancel your DirecTV account and still have access to all of the stuff on your device(s) for up to 30 additional days.


All the stuff after cancellation? Even if you could play recorded shows from your DVRs after cancellation--- can you? - there's a finite amount the iPad can hold, and you'd have to add additional capacity to the Nomad itself, then delete shows, reload the iPad, and repeat, repeat. So, yes, if the Nomad won't block downloading after transcoding after cancellation, you could, in theory do that.

IIRC, one cannot access recordings after cancellation....(?)


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> All the stuff after cancellation?


All the stuff *on your device(s)*, meaning stuff you've already transferred off of Nomad.


Laxguy said:


> IIRC, one cannot access recordings after cancellation....(?)


I believe once the DVR receives the deauthorization signal, it won't let you access your recordings. But if you prevent it from receiving that signal, your recordings will remain accessible for a little while.


----------



## Laxguy

OK, thanks. It's a bit less onerous than I first thought, but not for the faint of heart nor for those without some time on their hands.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

Look, the article is wrong on many levels.

There is no 30 day limit on your content. That is nonsense unless something has changed drastically.

The claim of 100HD and 200SD hours of storage? Where do these guys get this stuff? The Nomad has a 16GB flash memory built in. It only stores a limited amount of content before the user transfers it to their device (PC, tablet, smartphone). It was not designed to store the amount of hours Gizmodo is talking about.

As far as streaming goes, nomad will be able to stream at a later date, just not launch.

When is launch. My sources say end of next week


----------



## mattgwyther

ChicagoBlue said:


> Look, the article is wrong on many levels.
> 
> There is no 30 day limit on your content. That is nonsense unless something has changed drastically.
> 
> The claim of 100HD and 200SD hours of storage? Where do these guys get this stuff? The Nomad has a 16GB flash memory built in. It only stores a limited amount of content before the user transfers it to their device (PC, tablet, smartphone). It was not designed to store the amount of hours Gizmodo is talking about.
> 
> As far as streaming goes, nomad will be able to stream at a later date, just not launch.
> 
> When is launch. My sources say end of next week


If Nomad just transcodes and transfers, why would it need 16GB of flash? It seem like 4GB or less would be enough. My iPhone only has 16GB of flash


----------



## dualsub2006

"mattgwyther" said:


> If Nomad just transcodes and transfers, why would it need 16GB of flash? It seem like 4GB or less would be enough. My iPhone only has 16GB of flash


So you could move more than one program at a time? It wouldn't be convenient to have to load 3 movies onto my iPad one at a time because my Nomad only has 4GB of flash storage.


----------



## HoTat2

ChicagoBlue said:


> Look, the article is wrong on many levels.
> 
> There is no 30 day limit on your content. That is nonsense unless something has changed drastically. ...


Glad to hear it! Certainly hope your source(s) are accurate. :hurah:



> The claim of 100HD and 200SD hours of storage? Where do these guys get this stuff? The Nomad has a 16GB flash memory built in. It only stores a limited amount of content before the user transfers it to their device (PC, tablet, smartphone). It was not designed to store the amount of hours Gizmodo is talking about....


I always thought those numbers were out of proportion to the amount of internal memory stated for Nomad, unless there was one hell of a lot of compression being used. :sure:



> As far as streaming goes, nomad will be able to stream at a later date, just not launch. ...


Later streaming in what way? Over the internet or just home network?



> When is launch. My sources say end of next week ...


Again, glad to hear it if your source(s) are correct, though I don't know if the ~$150.00 is something I can really afford at the moment for a device that is primarily intended for those who do a lot of traveling and want video-to-go which I do not really do.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Maybe it "could" store a max of 100HD.....just not in total stock form....ie make use of the usb port thats shown in the picture of the device on directv's page. less thats how you can hook it into the network and usb it into the back of an HR2X....


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> less thats how you can hook it into the network and usb it into the back of an HR2X....


Nope.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Jeremy W said:


> Nope.


figured as much but thought always the possibility. Also wonder how long until we see the device built into the HR's or if it will be too costly to do such and not as cheap as DECA was to build in.

We know if this will work if you just have H2X's at the home? say you could schedule something to record real time(as your watching that channel of course) to the Nomad device? possible or even plausable??


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Also wonder how long until we see the device built into the HR's or if it will be too costly to do such and not as cheap as DECA was to build in.


I think this product is too niche to even be considered being built in.


Sgt. Slaughter said:


> We know if this will work if you just have H2X's at the home?


It will not.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Jeremy W said:


> I think this product is too niche to even be considered being built in.
> 
> It will not.


prob more along the lines of an AM21 then. But without seeing the insides and knowing the cost its tough to really know if they will ever include it inside even a special model HR.

So is it not plausable even to have just H2X and nomad and have it record 1 live show on the turner your watching real time even? OR is that the same thought process of not being able to put a external hard-drive on the back of an H2X and get it to record on that......think i answered my own question there. lol


----------



## Jeremy W

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> prob more along the lines of an AM21 then. But without seeing the insides and knowing the cost its tough to really know if they will ever include it inside even a special model HR.


I guarantee it costs more than an AM21.


Sgt. Slaughter said:


> So is it not plausable even to have just H2X and nomad and have it record 1 live show on the turner your watching real time even?


Technically, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. But it just wouldn't make much sense from a practical standpoint.


Sgt. Slaughter said:


> is that the same thought process of not being able to put a external hard-drive on the back of an H2X and get it to record on that


Actually, that would make a lot more sense from a practical standpoint than sending a real-time stream to Nomad.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Jeremy W said:


> I guarantee it costs more than an AM21.
> 
> Technically, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. But it just wouldn't make much sense from a practical standpoint.
> 
> Actually, that would make a lot more sense from a practical standpoint than sending a real-time stream to Nomad.


wow costs more than an AM21. wouldn't of thought that. so guess that nixes the integration thought. haha


----------



## LameLefty

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> wow costs more than an AM21. wouldn't of thought that. so guess that nixes the integration thought. haha


Think about it. The AM21 is mostly just a pair of commodity ATSC tuners. It basically does nothing except send the resulting MPEG2 stream(s) through another commodity chip, the USB controller.


----------



## inkahauts

"Sgt. Slaughter" said:


> figured as much but thought always the possibility. Also wonder how long until we see the device built into the HR's or if it will be too costly to do such and not as cheap as DECA was to build in.
> 
> We know if this will work if you just have H2X's at the home? say you could schedule something to record real time(as your watching that channel of course) to the Nomad device? possible or even plausable??


You only need one nomad per house. Why pay for it to be in every box?


----------



## inkahauts

"HoTat2" said:


> Glad to hear it! Certainly hope your source(s) are accurate. :hurah:
> 
> I always thought those numbers were out of proportion to the amount of internal memory stated for Nomad, unless there was one hell of a lot of compression being used. :sure:
> 
> Later streaming in what way? Over the internet or just home network?
> 
> Again, glad to hear it if your source(s) are correct, though I don't know if the ~$150.00 is something I can really afford at the moment for a device that is primarily intended for those who do a lot of traveling and want video-to-go which I do not really do.


I honestly expect over the home network streaming to be strait from dvrs to devices, and to come out much sooner than over the Internet streaming, which would be through a nomad. Just MHO


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

inkahauts said:


> You only need one nomad per house. Why pay for it to be in every box?


yet another reason it wasn't a bright idea lol


----------



## inkahauts

"Steve" said:


> Probably do only need one, but not too crazy an idea, SS. The Dish 922 has Sling built into every box, doesn't it?


Yeah, but don't they limit how many of those boxes you can have on a account? Also, and more importantly, how many streams are you ever going to have running out of your house, assuming we can stream over the net someday? And I maenads for the average user, not the crazy techie one? And how many do you think they are going to want that number to be so that they know people are just letting anyone log into their Directv account and watch a show they don't pay for?


----------



## Tom Robertson

HoTat2 said:


> Again, glad to hear it if your source(s) are correct, though I don't know if the ~$150.00 is something I can really afford at the moment for a device that is primarily intended for those who do a lot of traveling and want video-to-go which I do not really do.


My sister has one of the very first kindle models that came out. (Still works great, by the way.) She was traveling all over Europe as a missionary and a dietician and would need a good portion of her library to do her work and keep current on her accreditation. So even at $400 it was perfect for her.

Now, me, being thrifty, didn't find any use for the Kindle at that price; I don't travel enough.  In fact I still don't need one.

In exactly the same way, some people will have tremendous use for the Nomad, and others won't.

While I still don't travel much, I do volunteer at my church several days a week, since Mrs. Tibber works there. Or sometimes I go there to get out of the house whilst job hunting. I can see where a Nomad would be very nice to download the previous nite's TV to watch while I'm there.  Something like queue up the downloads and they'll be ready the next morning.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Shades228

ChicagoBlue said:


> Look, the article is wrong on many levels.
> 
> There is no 30 day limit on your content. That is nonsense unless something has changed drastically.
> 
> The claim of 100HD and 200SD hours of storage? Where do these guys get this stuff? The Nomad has a 16GB flash memory built in. It only stores a limited amount of content before the user transfers it to their device (PC, tablet, smartphone). It was not designed to store the amount of hours Gizmodo is talking about.
> 
> As far as streaming goes, nomad will be able to stream at a later date, just not launch.
> 
> When is launch. My sources say end of next week


Time for a new source.:nono2:


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> I honestly expect over the home network streaming to be strait from dvrs to devices, and to come out much sooner than over the Internet streaming, which would be through a nomad.


The requirement for a nomad to do non-realtime conversion is pretty solid proof that you're wrong about streaming at any level without one.


----------



## harsh

Shades228 said:


> Time for a new source.:nono2:


What evidence do we have to suggest that ChicagoBlue's source needs replacement?


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> The requirement for a nomad to do non-realtime conversion is pretty solid proof that you're wrong about streaming at any level without one.


Could you re-phrase without so many negatives? And, it's "Nomad".


----------



## harsh

Laxguy said:


> Could you re-phrase without so many negatives?


I can't think of a better way to express the differences between what nomad is reputed to do and what streaming would require.


> And, it's "Nomad".


The logo seems to suggest otherwise.


----------



## inkahauts

I must have missed the part that said nomad can't work real time. Is that how your unit works that you are testing?

Also, you must have access to every firmware version they will ever release. Could you tell me what other features are coming to it in the next few years?



From what has been said around here, I got the impression it will ONLY work in real time, at least at launch.


----------



## Justin23

"inkahauts" said:


> I must have missed the part that said nomad can't work real time. Is that how your unit works that you are testing?
> 
> Also, you must have access to every firmware version they will ever release. Could you tell me what other features are coming to it in the next few years?
> 
> From what has been said around here, I got the impression it will ONLY work in real time, at least at launch.


It will transfer in real time from your DVR to the nomad. When moving the content from the nomad to your mobile device (iPhone, iPad, PC, etc), the transfer rate will be much faster.


----------



## trainman

harsh said:


> The logo seems to suggest otherwise.


The artistic representation of a name used in a logo doesn't have any bearing on how that name should be written in plain text.

Or are you suggesting that this board should be referring, from now on, to...

*d:sh
NETWORK*

(Sorry, can't exactly match the graphic representation of a satellite signal that's used in place of a letter "i," so the colon was the best I could come up with.)


----------



## dpeters11

The name over the tabs isn't a logo and also uses a lowercase n. I'll probably still capitalize it.


----------



## Jeremy W

dpeters11 said:


> The name over the tabs isn't a logo and also uses a lowercase n. I'll probably still capitalize it.


DirecTV hates mixed case. They use DIRECTV and nomad. I use DirecTV and Nomad.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Generally I try to respect the name the company uses, I use DIRECTV. I'm so used to typing Nomad that I will likely take awhile to switch to nomad.

I am grateful for DIRECTV moving away from all uppercase. DIRECTV2PC was a real pain and not an easy read. 

Nomad, by the way, when at the beginning of the sentence, I'll still capitalize. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## inkahauts

Justin23 said:


> It will transfer in real time from your DVR to the nomad. When moving the content from the nomad to your mobile device (iPhone, iPad, PC, etc), the transfer rate will be much faster.


Ah, so what I said still makes perfect sense, and if anything flies in the face of the notion that nomad will not be able to stream in real time. Thanks!


----------



## Shades228

harsh said:


> What evidence do we have to suggest that ChicagoBlue's source needs replacement?


I have no idea what evidence you have or don't have. I can tell you that it's time he gets a new source on what he's talking about in this thread.


----------



## spartanstew

I use D* and N*


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> I can't think of a better way to express the differences between what nomad is reputed to do and what streaming would require.


I am certain you can. Try different words, omit the triple negative.


----------



## LameLefty

Rarely in history have so many people who (a) don't subscribe to the service; (b) don't have the device in question; and (c) rely on dubious "sources" for information, posted so authoritatively on things they have no personal knowledge or experience with. :lol:


----------



## Shades228

LameLefty said:


> Rarely in history have so many people who (a) don't subscribe to the service; (b) don't have the device in question; and (c) rely on dubious "sources" for information, posted so authoritatively on things they have no personal knowledge or experience with. :lol:


If by rarely you mean at least once a week. :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

LameLefty said:


> Rarely in history have so many people who (a) don't subscribe to the service; (b) don't have the device in question; and (c) rely on dubious "sources" for information, posted so authoritatively on things they have no personal knowledge or experience with. :lol:


Sounds like someone who's mad about not having sources of their own.


----------



## Tom Robertson

<moderator note>Just because someone does not currently subscribe to DIRECTV does not mean they are wrong in their analysis, does not mean they don't have friends or relatives with DIRECTV, or does not mean they don't have sources (that might be correct.)

Please don't even bother with the concept of someone not being a customer. Please limit your discussions to the points they make. Sure there is a limited amount of latitude to discuss a source, but subscribing to DIRECTV is not a source.

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## markrogo

Sorry, can anyone not in the pissing contest clarify the following for me is it:

1) Record to DVR
2) Then record to Nomad
3) Then xfer to iPad/phone/etc. 

OR

1) Record to DVR and also to Nomad
2) Then xfer to iPad/phone/etc.


----------



## Shades228

markrogo said:


> Sorry, can anyone not in the pissing contest clarify the following for me is it:
> 
> 1) Record to DVR
> 2) Then record to Nomad
> 3) Then xfer to iPad/phone/etc.
> 
> OR
> 
> 1) Record to DVR and also to Nomad
> 2) Then xfer to iPad/phone/etc.


DVR--> Nomad --> Device


----------



## hahler2

Does anyone know more about the 30 day limit? Do you have 30 days from the date of recording to transfer it to your iPad or do you have 30 days to watch it once it has been transferred?


----------



## dualsub2006

"hahler2" said:


> Does anyone know more about the 30 day limit? Do you have 30 days from the date of recording to transfer it to your iPad or do you have 30 days to watch it once it has been transferred?


I'm not taking Gizmodo's word as good on this as there seems to be a number of errors in their story. We should wait for an official release or for one of the testers here that actually has the device to answer this question.

For me, if there is a 30 day limit imposed I'll just go ahead with my plans to buy a Vulkano and I'll look at an eyeTV to rip shows from my DVR to my devices.


----------



## inkahauts

hahler2 said:


> Does anyone know more about the 30 day limit? Do you have 30 days from the date of recording to transfer it to your iPad or do you have 30 days to watch it once it has been transferred?


Since this could change on a whim, until its released (and frankly, it can always change after its released as well) I don't think anyone can really say for certain either way.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Whatever limits there might be, I can't imagine a limit requiring one to transcode/transfer within a certain amount of time after recording. Seems like the goal is to give us access to our recordings.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## markrogo

Shades228 said:


> DVR--> Nomad --> Device


A) So basically if I am going on vacation and want to cue up like 6 hours of TV for taking with me, I have to remember about 7 hours ahead of time then?

6 hours to transfer it all to Nomad and then some accelerated time to get it to the iPad?

B) And can I tag like 5-6 things to go to Nomad so it doesn't need babysitting?

C) Or is it possible to pre-flag stuff as it records to also go to Nomad?


----------



## Tom Robertson

markrogo said:


> A) So basically if I am going on vacation and want to cue up like 6 hours of TV for taking with me, I have to remember about 7 hours ahead of time then?
> 
> 6 hours to transfer it all to Nomad and then some accelerated time to get it to the iPad?
> 
> B) And can I tag like 5-6 things to go to Nomad so it doesn't need babysitting?
> 
> C) Or is it possible to pre-flag stuff as it records to also go to Nomad?


I suspect that would be one way to use it, the night before, queue up things you'll want to take. Or each night before the trip, queue things to build up a library for the trip.

On my DVRs, I have a large library of movies I like, so I would generally always have them on my laptop anyway.

Edit: by the way, I bet it can transcode and transfer two different things roughly at the same time. So only the last thing would need to transfer after the transcoding. Of course, transfer speed is going to entirely depend upon your network connection type.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## markrogo

I honestly don't use DirecTV for movies at all, but I get a lot of use out of it for TV -- enough that the $100+ per month (including sports) doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. I'm just trying to imagine the use cases for myself (and to a lesser extent others). It really seems like it requires a lot of planning.

By way of example, I have taken DVDs/BluRays on my laptop with me and these days I like to rip them to the hard drive ahead of time and leave the discs at home. If I don't go and do this before I leave, I can drag the DVD drive and some movies with me or seek movies via download (which go pretty quick over iTunes since the movie files are not that huge).

With Nomad, there is a substantial amount of what we call around here "activation energy" to make it useful. First, I need the thing to be recorded. Then, I need to move it to Nomad. Then, I need to move to, say, iPad.

And, for what it's worth, as a practical matter, iPad and phones speak WiFi and nothing faster. Though I'm sure there are nifty devices/hacks to get them on Ethernet, let's be real, that's not happening for 99.99% of users. WiFi has a lot of raw bandwidth, but isn't the fastest transfer medium in the universe alas. But my sense is the transfer isn't really the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that if I want 6 hours of stuff from my DVR, I better have started the move _more than 6 hours before leaving for the trip_.

For those of you that are excited about Nomad, more power to you. I just have a very difficult time imagining most people will even begin to comprehend how this works, let alone want one (let alone use it if they had one). It seems marginally more interesting for people that commute by rail/bus who would get into a habit of moving one program, regularly, to their mobile device. But AT&Ts ads notwithstanding, is that really a lot of people?

I'm always curious about these legal solutions that make the illegal solutions seem genius by comparison. Generally, I don't torrent anything, but occasionally we need to grab an episode of something because we go look for it after it aired and for some reason it's not on the DVR (glitch, pre-emption by sports or political speech, accidental deletion, whatever). So when that happens, I find the episode with a 2 second Google search and then start downloading it. Now, I don't know whether they ever resolved the VLC pissing contest around iOS, but I can say 100% of those files play back on my Mac and Win7 machines. And once the download is done -- typically 30 mins to an hour, sometimes 4-6 hours for older material -- I'm done, it's there, voila. If I really want to, I can make the destination folder Dropbox and I'm safely guaranteed the sync will complete in minutes if I just turn on the device in question.

I kinda think most of you that want Nomad already know how to do all this way better than I do. And that the illegal version is far more full featured and useful. You don't need to remember to record. You don't need to download before you leave home. If you're on vacation, you can download more content. Morally? Well, you are all DirecTV subs, so if you didn't download anything you weren't already paying for a subscription to, the grey area would seem to especially grey -- i.e. the "crime" is like doing 65 in a 55 zone. To be clear, I'm not advocating torrenting, I'm not suggesting that you ever download anything you don't have a subscription for, etc.

I just feel like the Nomad 1.0 use cases are really quite limited. And I'm sorry to rehash some of this on Page 77 of this thread, it just seems weird that DirecTV is even fussing with this thing. If they reach 2% of the subscriber base in 12 months with it, I'd be nothing short of floored (I'll grant they can get to 1% because if they market it some people will buy it not knowing what the heck it does and then end up never using it).

The other niche solutions of recent vintage like multi-room and the OTA tuner would seem (a) to benefit more people and (b) at least in the case of MRV, have important competitive ramifications. And my guess is MRV is already decently penetrating the subscriber base while also providing small but real recurring revenue to DirecTV. I know Nomad is the first piece in a strategy, but it's an odd first piece. When I can "dial into it" from afar, it strikes me as so much less odd.


----------



## Tom Robertson

markrogo said:


> I honestly don't use DirecTV for movies at all, but I get a lot of use out of it for TV -- enough that the $100+ per month (including sports) doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. I'm just trying to imagine the use cases for myself (and to a lesser extent others). It really seems like it requires a lot of planning.
> 
> By way of example, I have taken DVDs/BluRays on my laptop with me and these days I like to rip them to the hard drive ahead of time and leave the discs at home. If I don't go and do this before I leave, I can drag the DVD drive and some movies with me or seek movies via download (which go pretty quick over iTunes since the movie files are not that huge).
> 
> With Nomad, there is a substantial amount of what we call around here "activation energy" to make it useful. First, I need the thing to be recorded. Then, I need to move it to Nomad. Then, I need to move to, say, iPad.
> ....


I'm confused how nomad requires lots of activation energy in comparison to disks. Steps to rip a disk:1) plan ahead enough to acquire disk. 2) insert disk. 3) rip. 4) repeat (You have to be there between each item.) How many hours do you have to be there to babysit all those disks?

Steps to use nomad: 1) acquire the material (record to DVR). 2) tell nomad to transcode and download all the things you want.

I'm presuming for the moment that nomad will let you queue things up (bet it does) and let you transcode and download in one selection (bet it does that too, I can't really imagine anyone would make it one at a time.)

So with nomad I won't have to order a disk, I won't have to do change disks for each recording, etc. Sounds like a winner to me. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## markrogo

Tom Robertson said:


> I'm confused how nomad requires lots of activation energy in comparison to disks. Steps to rip a disk:1) plan ahead enough to acquire disk. 2) insert disk. 3) rip. 4) repeat (You have to be there between each item.) How many hours do you have to be there to babysit all those disks?
> 
> Steps to use nomad: 1) acquire the material (record to DVR). 2) tell nomad to transcode and download all the things you want.
> 
> I'm presuming for the moment that nomad will let you queue things up (bet it does) and let you transcode and download in one selection (bet it does that too, I can't really imagine anyone would make it one at a time.)
> 
> So with nomad I won't have to order a disk, I won't have to do change disks for each recording, etc. Sounds like a winner to me.


First of all, I'm not saying the disc method is good. But it takes about 15-20 minutes to rip a disc. So if I want 8 hours of movies, I can do that in an hour. The discs are already around; I'm not acquiring movies for the purpose of traveling with them; I either want to watch them or not.

If I only want 4 hours worth of movies, that's two discs, typically 30 mins worth of effort. With Nomad, it's 4 hour + transfer time. And the thing already needed to be on the DVR.

Again, this isn't "ripping discs good, Nomad bad". It's "Nomad really convoluted". I doubt most people would ever bother with ripping discs either. Many BluRays now include a "digital copy" that I'm sure most people don't even know exists, let alone what to do with.


----------



## Tom Robertson

markrogo said:


> First of all, I'm not saying the disc method is good. But it takes about 15-20 minutes to rip a disc. So if I want 8 hours of movies, I can do that in an hour. The discs are already around; I'm not acquiring movies for the purpose of traveling with them; I either want to watch them or not.
> 
> If I only want 4 hours worth of movies, that's two discs, typically 30 mins worth of effort. With Nomad, it's 4 hour + transfer time. And the thing already needed to be on the DVR.
> 
> Again, this isn't "ripping discs good, Nomad bad". It's "Nomad really convoluted". I doubt most people would ever bother with ripping discs either. Many BluRays now include a "digital copy" that I'm sure most people don't even know exists, let alone what to do with.


Fair 'nuff, though I'm not sure what the convoluted is.

Hopefully when nomad comes out we can see if it really is convoluted or not. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## dualsub2006

"markrogo" said:


> With Nomad, it's 4 hour + transfer time. And the thing already needed to be on the DVR.


I've yet to see any authoritative source say that it takes 4 hours to transcode 4 hours worth of video. Even if it did, I would prefer a set it and let it go solution to one that involved me having to jockey discs to rip and take along my MacBook when I travel. My MacBook is larger and heavier than my iPad and gets a fraction of the battery life.

Like you have your DVD collection already, I've got lots of stuff that I want to see on my DVRs already, with more added weekly. If the nomad works, I'd have no issue with setting up some titles to transcode and transfer before heading off to bed.

I don't really care if most people don't know that there are digital copies (that expire rather quickly) on their discs or if most people won't want anything to do with the nomad. If it transcodes and transfers DVR material to my iPad or my Android phone, that's a winner for me. Even if it actually is real time transcoding.


----------



## markrogo

It's the two-step part of it that's convoluted. This bit where you have to transfer something to Nomad and then Nomad transfers it your device would make Rube Goldberg really proud. There is also fairly overwhelming evidence that transfer occurs at "playback" speeds. 

If the device were able to read a stream off the DVR and transcode it directly to the iPad (or phone or whatever) and said stream wouldn't compete with watching something off said DVR in any way, we'd be talking about something a lot more desirable.


----------



## Jeremy W

dualsub2006 said:


> I've yet to see any authoritative source say that it takes 4 hours to transcode 4 hours worth of video.


Nobody said it takes 4 hours to transcode 4 hours of video. But it does take 4 hours to *transfer* 4 hours of video to the Nomad.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Jeremy W" said:


> Nobody said it takes 4 hours to transcode 4 hours of video. But it does take 4 hours to transfer 4 hours of video to the Nomad.


Well, maybe I'm just dense, but I personally would count the time that it takes to move content from DVR to nomad against the transcoding speed.

As I said, time to transcode wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Jeremy W

dualsub2006 said:


> Well, maybe I'm just dense, but I personally would count the time that it takes to move content from DVR to nomad against the transcoding speed.


Transferring and transcoding are two distinct processes. That's like counting the time it takes to buckle your seatbelt and start the car in a 0-60 time. You can't throw in irrelevant stuff.

Now if you were to say something like "Nomad import process" that combines the two, that would make sense and it would be a good statistic for people to know. So they could assume, for example, that a 30 minute show will be available to load on their device 40 minutes after they queue it up on their DVR.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Jeremy W" said:


> Transferring and transcoding are two distinct processes. That's like counting the time it takes to buckle your seatbelt and start the car in a 0-60 time. You can't throw in irrelevant stuff.


If it takes 40 minutes to get a 30 minute show on my iPad I would hardly call the first 30 minutes irrelevant. And hair splitting about different categories that time should be classified in is more irrelevant than counting transfer time as transcoding time.

Face it, if it takes 4 hours to TRANSFER 4 hours of content and then say another hour to TRANSCODE and another 20 minutes to move it to a device, people will view that as 5 hours and 20 minutes, not 4 hours and then an hour and then 20 minutes.

Total time to completion. This thing is slow if you are right and there is no way around that.


----------



## Diana C

markrogo said:


> ...If the device were able to read a stream off the DVR and transcode it directly to the iPad (or phone or whatever) and said stream wouldn't compete with watching something off said DVR in any way, we'd be talking about something a lot more desirable.


Yeah, we'd be talking about streaming.


----------



## Jeremy W

dualsub2006 said:


> If it takes 40 minutes to get a 30 minute show on my iPad I would hardly call the first 30 minutes irrelevant.


Way to cut out the second part of my post where I say the total time *is* relevant. 

I'm just trying to help you keep your terminology straight, that's all. Transfer time is absolutely relevant to the overall Nomad experience, but it has nothing to do with transcode time. Do you understand now?

Transfers occur in real time. That is a known fact. So there is no way a 30 minute show can be available in less than 30 minutes. What I don't know is how long transcoding will take, which is to say I don't know how much more time is added on after the transfer process.


----------



## Sixto

It seems like it will work like I've always used TiVoToGo.

I kept a cable connection and a Series3 just for iPad TV recordings.

Before heading out on vacation or a business trip, the night before (or a few days before), I copy all of the desired recordings from the Series3 to a PC and schedule the transcoding. It takes several hours, and I usually run it at night.

Then before heading out, I do a quick copy of the transcoded recordings to my iPad.

It's seems like nomad may be very similar, and remove the need for the Series3 (for me).


----------



## Laxguy

Sixto said:


> It seems like it will work like I've always used TiVoToGo.
> 
> I kept a cable connection and a Series3 just for iPad TV recordings.
> 
> Before heading out on vacation or a business trip, the night before (or a few days before), I copy all of the desired recordings from the Series3 to a PC and schedule the transcoding. It takes several hours, and I usually run it at night.
> 
> Then before heading out, I do a quick copy of the transcoded recordings to my iPad.
> 
> It's seems like nomad may be very similar, and remove the need for the Series3 (for me).


This makes more sense. I bet some will keep a few movies on it, always ready to go, and the night before load up some more current stuff for on-the-road viewing.


----------



## Tom Robertson

markrogo said:


> It's the two-step part of it that's convoluted. This bit where you have to transfer something to Nomad and then Nomad transfers it your device would make Rube Goldberg really proud. There is also fairly overwhelming evidence that transfer occurs at "playback" speeds.
> 
> If the device were able to read a stream off the DVR and transcode it directly to the iPad (or phone or whatever) and said stream wouldn't compete with watching something off said DVR in any way, we'd be talking about something a lot more desirable.


I don't think you will have to "schedule" two steps. I suspect you'll schedule one step (put something(s) on my playback device) and it will do whatever steps are necessary to put them onto your playback device. While it might be two steps (for something that hasn't been transcoded) or just one step for something that has been already transcoded, I really don't think you'll schedule both steps individually.

So I suspect you'll find it won't be convoluted at all.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> Transfers occur in real time. That is a known fact.


Why can't transfers happen faster than real time? Claiming it is a "known fact" lends a lot more certainty that I think it deserves.

It is a "known fact" that some of the competition (DISH, TiVo) are doing transfers faster than real time.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Why can't transfers happen faster than real time?


No idea.


harsh said:


> Claiming it is a "known fact" lends a lot more certainty that I think it deserves.


It deserves 100% certainty, because it's 100% known. I'm not going to sit here and go around and around on this. Transfers from the DVR to Nomad happen in real time. Period.


----------



## Diana C

Sure, it COULD be done in less than real time, but that would require a new transfer mechanism on the DVR, since today they can only playback a recording to another receiver. I would think that they would get the Nomad on the market and stable before they start activating new transfer code on the DVRs.


----------



## Jeremy W

Titan25 said:


> Sure, it COULD be done in less than real time


Maybe the processor in the DVR isn't powerful enough to add the DTCP-IP encryption to a faster data stream.


----------



## inkahauts

Or maybe they don't want to tie up the network with to much bandwidth so that it won't bog down MRV?


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Or maybe they don't want to tie up the network with to much bandwidth so that it won't bog down MRV?


When the DVR is sending content to Nomad, it cannot also serve an MRV stream. So that is irrelevant.


----------



## markrogo

Tom Robertson said:


> I don't think you will have to "schedule" two steps. I suspect you'll schedule one step (put something(s) on my playback device) and it will do whatever steps are necessary to put them onto your playback device. While it might be two steps (for something that hasn't been transcoded) or just one step for something that has been already transcoded, I really don't think you'll schedule both steps individually.
> 
> So I suspect you'll find it won't be convoluted at all.


I suspect I'll still find it takes more than 4 hours to transfer 4 hours worth of stuff and therefore I won't own one. But anyway, we'll know someday.....


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> Maybe the processor in the DVR isn't powerful enough to add the DTCP-IP encryption to a faster data stream.


Which processor is doing the encryption? I'm betting it isn't the CPU.

Even if it were, you would think that an HR24 would do it more quickly than an HR21.


----------



## Shades228

harsh said:


> Which processor is doing the encryption? I'm betting it isn't the CPU.
> 
> Even if it were, you would think that an HR24 would do it more quickly than an HR21.


Given that it's a 1:1 time for moving from the DVR to the nomad I think it would be logical to say that the nomad is doing the converting to whatever format it uses. It probably is setup how a DVD burner is where the DVR actually plays it and the nomad converts it.

To copy off of the nomad is significantly faster.

Sixto has described the best way to use it.

You could in theory just pick something each night to queue up and then have it held on the nomad for a just in case. Perhaps if you have kids you could load up a couple of kid movies/shows that you know they would watch no matter what and then just store them on the nomad.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

markrogo said:


> It's the two-step part of it that's convoluted. This bit where you have to transfer something to Nomad and then Nomad transfers it your device would make Rube Goldberg really proud. There is also fairly overwhelming evidence that transfer occurs at "playback" speeds.
> 
> If the device were able to read a stream off the DVR and transcode it directly to the iPad (or phone or whatever) and said stream wouldn't compete with watching something off said DVR in any way, we'd be talking about something a lot more desirable.


If makes sense to me that it's a two step process. That way it can transcode selected items even when the mobile device isn't on the network, such as when I'm at work. I come home, start the app, and voilá, it's on my device.

If we believe Gizmodo about Nomad's on board storage then in theory after the first download to the device the only time length you really need to be worried about is how long the actual download takes. I'm guessing after the first use it goes like this; select so stuff to download, watch what's on my device, and when I want new stuff I download from Nomad and select some more stuff to transcode, repeat. In this scenario with a little forethought you should never have to wait for more time than it takes to download to get new stuff to watch. Further, if 100 hours of stuff isn't enough and the Gizmodo article is correct about additional storage via USB, I can have a lot of stuff waiting to be downloaded and never have to worry about transcode times...in theory at least. 

IMHO, Rube Goldberg would be pretty disappointed with two steps. Now if it transcoded, uploaded to a DIRECTV server where it's sent via satellite to a duplication facility, it gets burned to a DVD, the DVD is then shipped via DHL, DHL delivers it to the local post office, USPS delivers it to the house, the app copies it to your desktop, and you upload it to your device...Now that Rube might have liked. :grin:

Mike


----------



## Shades228

Mike Bertelson said:


> If makes sense to me that it's a two step process. That way it can transcode selected items even when the mobile device isn't on the network, such as when I'm at work. I come home, start the app, and voilá, it's on my device.
> 
> If we believe Gizmodo about Nomad's on board storage then in theory after the first download to the device the only time length you really need to be worried about is how long the actual download takes. I'm guessing after the first use it goes like this; select so stuff to download, watch what's on my device, and when I want new stuff I download from Nomad and select some more stuff to transcode, repeat. In this scenario with a little forethought you should never have to wait for more time than it takes to download to get new stuff to watch. Further, if 100 hours of stuff isn't enough and the Gizmodo article is correct about additional storage via USB, I can have a lot of stuff waiting to be downloaded and never have to worry about transcode times...in theory at least.
> 
> IMHO, Rube Goldberg would be pretty disappointed with two steps. Now if it transcoded, uploaded to a DIRECTV server where it's sent via satellite to a duplication facility, it gets burned to a DVD, the DVD is then shipped via DHL, DHL delivers it to the local post office, USPS delivers it to the house, the app copies it to your desktop, and you upload it to your device...Now that Rube might have liked. :grin:
> 
> Mike


The article is correct on both accounts for storage.

Without a 2 part step every item you put on the nomad would have to be sent to every registered device you have which would not be very friendly to accounts with multiple people using the service.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Shades228 said:


> The article is correct on both accounts for storage.
> 
> Without a 2 part step every item you put on the nomad would have to be sent to every registered device you have which would not be very friendly to accounts with multiple people using the service.


I'm making the assumption that the device that I use to select something to download will be the devices that gets it; even if I have multiple devices registered. I don't see how a one step transcode/download would be any different...unless I'm missing something.

Mike


----------



## harsh

Shades228 said:


> It probably is setup how a DVD burner is where the DVR actually plays it and the nomad converts it.


Video with audio isn't something that an HR2x can put on your LAN. It encrypts and dumps MPEG data.

In contrast, most DVD recorders use NTSC video with audio and digitize that.


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## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Video with audio isn't something that an HR2x can put on your LAN.


In analog form. But I highly doubt that's what Shades was referring to, which makes this statement pointless. And I'm sure you knew that, too.


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## inkahauts

Jeremy W said:


> When the DVR is sending content to Nomad, it cannot also serve an MRV stream. So that is irrelevant.


No, its really not. You can also be receiveing a mrv feed from another drv, you maybe have other dvrs talking to other dvrs, you also could be downloading vod content. If one dvr was allowed to use more than its one allotted stream, then you start limiting what else can go on the network at the same time more so than its limits today, although I have yet to find the limits with my 7 dvrs.


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## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> If one dvr was allowed to use more than its one allotted stream, then you start limiting what else can go on the network at the same time more so than its limits today, although I have yet to find the limits with my 7 dvrs.


IIRC, the DECA "cloud" can handle up to 150Mbps. There is *plenty* of room for a single Nomad stream to be going faster than realtime. There is no way this is a network limitation.


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## Stuart Sweet

Guys, I'd like to remind you not to discuss each other, but to discuss Nomad. Thanks.


----------



## Steve

Jeremy W said:


> IIRC, the DECA "cloud" can handle up to 150Mbps. [...]


OT, I know, but since it came up... I'm pretty sure the DECA cloud can handle ~ 250Mbps, based on the diagnostic screens.


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## Stuart Sweet

Not sure what that has to do with Nomad. Does it connect via coax?


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## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> Not sure what that has to do with Nomad. Does it connect via coax?


Not sure either. But if Nomad wants only connects Cat5 and needs to see your DVRs, I guess it could also connect via a DECA adapter, like an HR20-23.


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## Justin85

Not that it matters, but D* updated the nomad splash page...

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/nomad

... still no info, just a new graphic.


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## mrdobolina

I've been following this with mild interest since I'm not really certain nomad is something I would need. Sure, it's something I WANT, but that's mostly because I love tech gadgets and my DirecTV. 

That updated splash page says to me that nomad works wirelessly. Sure, it's just a graphic, but it's a graphic of WiFi waves broadcasting out of the nomad box and being received by the mobile devices. 

If what I'm reading in this forum is correct, this new splash page looks like hyperbolic advertising to me.


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## Beerstalker

I think a lot of people here are leaving out a step, at least when it comes to iOS devices. I pretty much guarantee that the recordings are going to have to be transferred from the Nomad to your computer and loaded into iTunes before they can be transferred to your iPhone/iPad, etc.


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## KenW

I wonder how it handles anamorphic. That's a real problem with DVD Recorders. I really hate black bars.


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## Tom Robertson

Beerstalker said:


> I think a lot of people here are leaving out a step, at least when it comes to iOS devices. I pretty much guarantee that the recordings are going to have to be transferred from the Nomad to your computer and loaded into iTunes before they can be transferred to your iPhone/iPad, etc.


Why?

Not everything has to be loaded via iTunes.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Beerstalker

Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).

What kind of stuff doesn't?

I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


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## Tom Robertson

Beerstalker said:


> Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).
> 
> What kind of stuff doesn't?
> 
> I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


I'm an iPham newbie as well. Complicated by the fact that I'm working with iOS 5 not 4. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## HoTat2

KenW said:


> I wonder how it handles anamorphic. That's a real problem with DVD Recorders. I really hate black bars.


Why? ... DIRECTV hasn't sent programs in anamorphic video for years.


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## Laxguy

Beerstalker said:


> Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).
> 
> What kind of stuff doesn't?
> 
> I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


Take a gander at HBO GO, or Netflix..... no iTunes required.....yes, they are streaming and Nomad is not, afaik, but certainly there are exceptions.


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## HoTat2

Stuart Sweet said:


> Not sure what that has to do with Nomad. Does it connect via coax?





Steve said:


> Not sure either. But if Nomad wants only connects Cat5 and needs to see your DVRs, I guess it could also connect via a DECA adapter, like an HR20-23.


The training video demonstration only showed an ethernet connection from the nomad to a home network router port or by logical extension I guess could be an available switch on your network as well.


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## dennisj00

Beerstalker said:


> Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).
> 
> What kind of stuff doesn't?
> 
> I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


I transfer ripped videos to the iPad or iPhone to GoodReader via wifi all the time. Quick, painless and no iTunes.


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## RunnerFL

Beerstalker said:


> Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).
> 
> What kind of stuff doesn't?
> 
> I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


I have an app that let's me view my Samba/Windows shares and copy files directly from them to my iPhone or iPad, no iTunes required.


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## LameLefty

There are lots of apps that let you connect to servers independent of iTunes: Goodreader and Dropbox are probably the most widely-used and -known of the discrete file copy utilities, but plenty of others exist for specialized purposes (TAB Toolkit for guitarists, for instance) and that doesn't even include the myriad streaming media apps (the built-in iPod app, Netflix, Plex, AirVideo, HBO GO, all the Turner TV network apps, et cetera).


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## inkahauts

Beerstalker said:


> Everything I've ever transferred to/from my devices has had to go through itunes (unless downloading from the appstore or itunes on the phone itself).
> 
> What kind of stuff doesn't?
> 
> I'm still a bit of a newbie to the iTunes/iPhone world.


Documents to go syncs up what ever documents you want and lands them a copy on your ipad, and it never touches itunes. It has been done, with all kinds of programs as others have pointed out.


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## inkahauts

Stuart Sweet said:


> Not sure what that has to do with Nomad. Does it connect via coax?


I mentioned maybe the reason, or part of the reason at least, they stick it to real time is to make sure they don't overload the dvr or deca system from a bandwidth standpoint. While overlaoding the deca would be hard, I think its doable for Tom and others, maybe even me. lots of variables to consider.


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## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> While overlaoding the deca would be hard, I think its doable for Tom and others, maybe even me.


It would take more than 30 8mbps MPEG4 streams to overload a DECA network. Even if you're streaming 19mbps MPEG2 OTA content, you're looking at 13 streams before the network hits the limit. Nobody is overloading DECA, and I promise you it wasn't a consideration. They're simply reusing the MRV capability for Nomad.


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## harsh

Steve said:


> OT, I know, but since it came up... I'm pretty sure the DECA cloud can handle ~ 250Mbps, based on the diagnostic screens.


This is a common fallacy. The PHY rate is not the same thing as the layer 3 transfer rate. MoCA overhead drags the performance down to a field tested maximum of around 170Mbps.


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## Sixto

harsh said:


> This is a common fallacy. The PHY rate is not the same thing as the layer 3 transfer rate. MoCA overhead drags the performance down to a field tested maximum of around 170Mbps.


Shucks, guess I'll need to live within 170Mbps.


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## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> In analog form. But I highly doubt that's what Shades was referring to, which makes this statement pointless.


Given that Shades suggested that the "DVR plays it", I think that's exactly what the idea was: play and capture.


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## Steve

Sixto said:


> Shucks, guess I'll need to live within 170Mbps.


For sure. That said, Moca 2.0 can deliver a 400Mpbs transfer rate. I don't pretend to know how efficient DirecTV's implementation is (), but in light of that spec, the > 250Mbps mesh rates my boxes are reporting don't seem outlandish to me.


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## YakeVlad

I think the real failure that's being expressed here by some people is in the method D* is employing to deliver what is essentially a service. There are plenty of services currently available which enable us to quickly (a fraction of real-time) download TV show episodes and movies to mobile devices, tablets, and laptops on demand. They don't require us to go through a time consuming, multi-step, process that also involves pre-planing. With nomad D* is requiring each sub to schedule a tv show or movie for recording on a DVR, transfer it to a nomad box, wait for the nomad box to transcode the content, and then manually transfer it to the end device. So that's 4 steps compared to 1 and those 4 steps take significantly longer to complete than the 1-step alternative? It's starting to sound like a Rube Goldberg solution to me.

IMHO what D* is trying to provide its subs is of great value, but it's solution is all wrong. A proper solution would have involved D* hosting the already transcoded content on servers which would be accessible to subs via an app and/or website. Subs would logon with their directv.com account (logon info can be saved for future visits), which would provide D* with authentication and all the info they need on what content a sub can access. Then the sub selects the content they want downloaded to their device, or tags a tv series for auto download when available, and the selected files are loaded to their device. If you want to take it a step further they could also offer up that content to be available for streaming, thus just a wait for the device to buffer. It merely provides another method of time-shifting (same thing DVRs provide us) for content to which we're already paying. This is a service just like MRV, only it's going to a mobile device not a set-top box. So treat it like a service, do the work for the customer and charge them for it. Now that I think about it, it's a bit appalling that D* is suggesting we have to pay $150 to purchase a device that still requires each of us to do all of the work.


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## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Given that Shades suggested that the "DVR plays it", I think that's exactly what the idea was: play and capture.


When you're dealing with a digital AV signal delivered in realtime, it's not exactly a stretch to refer to it as "playing." The only difference is that it's being sent over the network instead of to the video decoder.


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## Jeremy W

YakeVlad said:


> A proper solution would have involved D* hosting the already transcoded content on servers which would be accessible to subs via an app and/or website.


From a contractual standpoint, this isn't a solution at all. There is no way DirecTV could legally do this without agreements in place with all of the content providers. And they'd have a hell of a time getting that done.


YakeVlad said:


> Now that I think about it, it's a bit appalling that D* is suggesting we have to pay $150 to purchase a device that still requires each of us to do all of the work.


You don't have to pay anything. If you don't want to do the work, don't buy it.


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## YakeVlad

Jeremy W said:


> From a contractual standpoint, this isn't a solution at all. There is no way DirecTV could legally do this without agreements in place with all of the content providers. And they'd have a hell of a time getting that done.


They're already storing content for the on demand channels to which they had to sign agreements with the providers. How is this different?



> You don't have to pay anything. If you don't want to do the work, don't buy it.


You do if you want to be able to copy recordings to mobile devices, which is my point. For the "right" to be able to copy those recordings you have to pay D* $150 for a nomad box (tool) and then you still have to do all of the work yourself (service). That's like paying a mechanic $150 to use his wrench, but then you still have to do the repair.


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## dualsub2006

"YakeVlad" said:


> They're already storing content for the on demand channels to which they had to sign agreements with the providers. How is this different?


On Demand content is limited to select titles that the content provider selects and what D* can allow you to do with it is restricted by the provider.

It's very different.


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## Mike Bertelson

YakeVlad said:


> <snip> Now that I think about it, it's a bit appalling that D* is suggesting we have to pay $150 to purchase a device that still requires each of us to do all of the work.


You hook it up and plug it in just like any other piece of gear in you setup and then install the software. That doesn't sound like a whole lotta work to me. It certainly isn't hard to select what you want and download it. I think maybe appalling is a bit harsh in this case.

Unless I'm missing something it should take about fifteen minutes to setup up and it's done. :shrug:

Mike


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## YakeVlad

Mike Bertelson said:


> You hook it up and plug it in just like any other piece of gear in you setup and then install the software. That doesn't sound like a whole lotta work to me. It certainly isn't hard to select what you want and download it. I think maybe appalling is a bit harsh in this case.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something it should take about fifteen minutes to setup up and it's done. :shrug:
> 
> Mike


It's not the installation to which I'm referring, it's the process required to get the content to the mobile device.


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## Mike Bertelson

YakeVlad said:


> It's not the installation to which I'm referring, it's the process required to get the content to the mobile device.


You select something to download and it does it. The first time you will have to wait for the transcode but after that you select new stuff to download. By the time you're done with what you already downloaded the new stuff will be ready.

Maybe I'm missing something. What is it you expect to happen or what is it you think DIRECTV should be doing different that would make the selecting/downloading process easier?

Mike


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## YakeVlad

dualsub2006 said:


> On Demand content is limited to select titles that the content provider selects and what D* can allow you to do with it is restricted by the provider.
> 
> It's very different.


Yeah, I should have been more specific in my response. I was responding to Jeremy's comment on how it wouldn't be possible from a contractual standpoint for D* to work out an agreement for content to be stored on servers by them.

I was attempting to counterpoint his argument with an example of an existing circumstance in which D* has come to an agreement with the content providers on storing content on servers.


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## Jeremy W

YakeVlad said:


> They're already storing content for the on demand channels to which they had to sign agreements with the providers. How is this different?


The providers have complete control over what's available and when. That content is also not allowed to go to Nomad.


YakeVlad said:


> That's like paying a mechanic $150 to use his wrench, but then you still have to do the repair.


No, it's more like buying a $150 wrench and still having to do the repair. Which is what happens when you buy a wrench.


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## Jeremy W

YakeVlad said:


> I was responding to Jeremy's comment on how it wouldn't be possible from a contractual standpoint for D* to work out an agreement for content to be stored on servers by them.


I never said that.


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## harsh

Steve said:


> For sure. That said, Moca 2.0 can deliver a 400Mpbs transfer rate.


MoCA 2.0 doesn't apply to DECA.


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## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> There is no way DirecTV could legally do this without agreements in place with all of the content providers. And they'd have a hell of a time getting that done.


TV Everywhere is one of DIRECTV's stated goals.


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## YakeVlad

Mike Bertelson said:


> You select something to download and it does it. The first time you will have to wait for the transcode but after that you select new stuff to download. By the time you're done with what you already downloaded the new stuff will be ready.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something. What is it you expect to happen or what is it you think DIRECTV should be doing different that would make the selecting/downloading process easier?
> 
> Mike


There are a couple of practicality issues I see with the nomad process.


Complexity of the solution compared to other existing models:
It takes multiple steps to move from point A to point B. You have to record it on your DVR, then transfer it to the nomad, then the nomad has to transcode it, then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. Compare that to iTunes or any number of other services out there in which the content goes from point A to point B in a single, much faster step. Why in the world does D*'s solution have to be so much more complicated?

Time required to complete the process
*Nomad method:* record it on your DVR (real-time), then transfer it to the nomad (real-time again), then the nomad has to transcode it (more time), then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. So it takes somewhere on the order of 3 times the amount of time to copy the content as it does to watch the content and you haven't even seen anything yet.
*Competitors method:* login, download the commercial-free content to device (a small fraction of real-time). At worst under this method it takes as long to copy the content and watch it as it would have to watch it live.


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## HoTat2

YakeVlad said:


> There are a couple of practicality issues I see with the nomad process.
> 
> 
> Complexity of the solution compared to other existing models:
> It takes multiple steps to move from point A to point B. You have to record it on your DVR, then transfer it to the nomad, then the nomad has to transcode it, then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. Compare that to iTunes or any number of other services out there in which the content goes from point A to point B in a single, much faster step. Why in the world does D*'s solution have to be so much more complicated?
> 
> Time required to complete the process
> *Nomad method:* record it on your DVR (real-time), then transfer it to the nomad (real-time again), then the nomad has to transcode it (more time), then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. So it takes somewhere on the order of 3 times the amount of time to copy the content as it does to watch the content and you haven't even seen anything yet.
> *Competitors method:* login, download the commercial-free content to device (a small fraction of real-time). At worst under this method it takes as long to copy the content and watch it as it would have to watch it live.


Perhaps I missed something, but in the "competitors" method you describe, how does DIRECTV determine which shows you want transcoded and available for download?

Nomad will allow you to select only shows you want to transcode outside of recorded PPV content from linear or VOD service.


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## Jeremy W

HoTat2 said:


> Perhaps I missed something, but in the "competitors" method you describe, how does DIRECTV determine which shows you want transcoded and available for download?


You're picking from their library, kind of like VOD.


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## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> TV Everywhere is one of DIRECTV's stated goals.


Yes, and the way they've been accomplishing it so far is by having the providers host their own content for streaming. Which is a very different concept.


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## inkahauts

"Jeremy W" said:


> It would take more than 30 8mbps MPEG4 streams to overload a DECA network. Even if you're streaming 19mbps MPEG2 OTA content, you're looking at 13 streams before the network hits the limit. Nobody is overloading DECA, and I promise you it wasn't a consideration. They're simply reusing the MRV capability for Nomad.


Each box can have three streams going through it's network port right now. That's only ten boxes. Now, kick that to ota for two of the three streams. I never said it was likely to happen, but it's possible. It's also possible they don't want to take the chance of overloading the smallest point which is the connection at the dvr and the hard drive. I think the real key is at what point do you cut off the bandwidth, and it's probably easier for them to say one real tome stream, vs trying to figure out how much traffic is going and coming, and what else the hard drive and dvr is doing, especially if the hard drive is already recording multiple streams as well, and throttle the transfer speed to make sure none of the many variables are being adversely effected. I am simply saying, I think they took everything into account when they made the decision, and I can see plenty of technical reasons where they might have been afraid of hitting a limit.

And also, if they let the unit go full bore, and run at 100mbs, then how how many streams would that have left room for? There's just a lot of possibilities.


----------



## Beerstalker

I'm still not convinced this is going to be nearly as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. My guess is you are going to be able to browse though your playlist on your DVR and select a recording. When you are looking at a recording there will be a new option for sending it to Nomad (like there are options for resume, play from beginning, etc).

Once you select send to Nomad that will take care of the transfer and transcoding steps. Sure you might have to set up something telling the Nomad what resolution, screen shape, etc. but hopefully those will be one time set up items and you won't have to do it every time. 

I have to believe that this step will be pretty simple, and painless from a users point of view.

Once it is done transcoding in the Nomad you will have to get it on your device somehow. This is where I'm not sure what it will entail. Will the recordings need to go through iTunes? Will the new DirecTV Nomad app be able to transfer them to your device over your homes wireless network? 

I'm eagerly awaiting the devices release. It could make things much simpler for me during my hunting trips this November. Rather than having to pack up a blu-ray player, and lug around a bunch of discs, I might be able to just load up my iPhone or iPad with a bunch of recordings/movies and take them with me. I've got the cables to hook up my iPhone/iPad to a TV alread so I wouldn't need anything. Sure I might lose some picture quality, but when you're staying in a trailer with no running water, bunking 8 guys in one room etc. picture quality isn't exactly the highest priority item.


----------



## inkahauts

"YakeVlad" said:


> Yeah, I should have been more specific in my response. I was responding to Jeremy's comment on how it wouldn't be possible from a contractual standpoint for D* to work out an agreement for content to be stored on servers by them.
> 
> I was attempting to counterpoint his argument with an example of an existing circumstance in which D* has come to an agreement with the content providers on storing content on servers.


It's physically not even possible for content providers to allow Directv to do this, they don't even own rights of all their shows to do that. And that's the catch. Everything would have to be time limited in that plan, and that's not as good as getting it from your dvr where you can have stuff stored for years.

Also, do you realize how much of an infrastructure that would take? Have every show on every channel, some for weeks, some for years depending on the shows and channels, and convert it to multiple qualities, and have it all accessible to everyone all the time? That's far far more than even hulu and most other video stores have. You are talking amazon and apple sized needs, and that's not directvs core business and they have no business getting involved in it unless they buy another company that already does it and integrate the two.

As to your point about all the work, I think mostly you are complaining about the amount of time. If it works like I think it will, you will load software onto your device that will allow you to pick a show on a. Dvr to be put on your device, and that's it. I guess we will see, but I don't see them making you do each step individually. And even if they did, it shouldn't take a min to tell it each individual step. And for the time it takes, I know many computers wouldn't be able to accomplish ripping a blurry disc and then converting it to an optimized format and then moving it to a mobile device any faster, if at all. Yes, there are some that can, but I doubt most people's CPUs will do that, if they even have a blurry player in their machine, but if I can queue it up before I crash at night,and have it all set to go in the morning, I don't think that's really an issue. This is separate from streaming, and should be looked at that way. This is to take content with you for use without Internet. That takes a little planning usually.


----------



## inkahauts

"harsh" said:


> TV Everywhere is one of DIRECTV's stated goals.


And there is no chance they are going to accomplish it by storing every show from every channel for years on end on their own servers, which is what he was referring to. There is zero chance of that for so many reasons.

There are plenty of other ways Directv can accomplish that goal, and most are a lot easier to do as well.


----------



## inkahauts

"Beerstalker" said:


> I'm still not convinced this is going to be nearly as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. My guess is you are going to be able to browse though your playlist on your DVR and select a recording. When you are looking at a recording there will be a new option for sending it to Nomad (like there are options for resume, play from beginning, etc).
> 
> Once you select send to Nomad that will take care of the transfer and transcoding steps. Sure you might have to set up something telling the Nomad what resolution, screen shape, etc. but hopefully those will be one time set up items and you won't have to do it every time.
> 
> I have to believe that this step will be pretty simple, and painless from a users point of view.
> 
> Once it is done transcoding in the Nomad you will have to get it on your device somehow. This is where I'm not sure what it will entail. Will the recordings need to go through iTunes? Will the new DirecTV Nomad app be able to transfer them to your device over your homes wireless network?
> 
> I'm eagerly awaiting the devices release. It could make things much simpler for me during my hunting trips this November. Rather than having to pack up a blu-ray player, and lug around a bunch of discs, I might be able to just load up my iPhone or iPad with a bunch of recordings/movies and take them with me. I've got the cables to hook up my iPhone/iPad to a TV alread so I wouldn't need anything. Sure I might lose some picture quality, but when you're staying in a trailer with no running water, bunking 8 guys in one room etc. picture quality isn't exactly the highest priority item.


I think like you, except I expect everything to be initiated from the mobile device ( i don't expect to see anything about it anywhere on a dvr) the show is going to end up on, so you will have already set the quality, etc, and it will automatically know to send the show to that device over whatever connection was used to set up the transfer in the first place. I don't see any third party products being needed to get programing onto any mobile device.

We need this thing to launch to see if it's got lots of steps, or is as easy to do as I expect.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

YakeVlad said:


> There are a couple of practicality issues I see with the nomad process.
> 
> 
> Complexity of the solution compared to other existing models:
> It takes multiple steps to move from point A to point B. You have to record it on your DVR, then transfer it to the nomad, then the nomad has to transcode it, then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. Compare that to iTunes or any number of other services out there in which the content goes from point A to point B in a single, much faster step. Why in the world does D*'s solution have to be so much more complicated?
> 
> Time required to complete the process
> *Nomad method:* record it on your DVR (real-time), then transfer it to the nomad (real-time again), then the nomad has to transcode it (more time), then it has to be transfered from the nomad to the end device. So it takes somewhere on the order of 3 times the amount of time to copy the content as it does to watch the content and you haven't even seen anything yet.
> *Competitors method:* login, download the commercial-free content to device (a small fraction of real-time). At worst under this method it takes as long to copy the content and watch it as it would have to watch it live.


Well, yeah. We do have to record it to the DVR but aren't we doing that now? We record the things we want to watch. Or, are you saying you are going to record things that you wouldn't ordinarily record just so you can send it to your mobile device?

We don't really know how Nomad works but isn't it possible that it could transcode as it's receiving the stream from the DVR? For all we know your two steps of transfer then transcode could be one process with transcoding on the fly.

BTW, your "competitors method" is a completely different kind of service. Nomad seems to be a method of taking your already existing recordings with you and not an on demand service.

It would seem to me that once it's up and running the following is just as likely as your process...

Watch what's on my mobile device.
Go to Nomad and download some more content and select some other stuff I'd might like to go mobile with.
Repeat.
My assumed procedure is just a likely as yours and I only have to wait as long as it takes to download the video to my device and select some other stuff to transcode. After the first time Nomad is used it shouldn't take any more time than your "competitors method". IMHO that wouldn't sound very complicated or time consuming to do.

However, I think it's kind of early to rip apart the transfer/transcode/download process because we're all guessing. If takes as long as you're assuming then I'd agree it's a cumbersome process. If it takes as long as I'm assuming then I'm ok with it.

Mike


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## Shades228

harsh said:


> Given that Shades suggested that the "DVR plays it", I think that's exactly what the idea was: play and capture.


I was using a generic term so that people would understand the intent of the sentence, not the technical aspect, because it happens in real time. People who know the technology would understand that this is not what is happening. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

So to simplify since time seems to be the main issue:

Show from DVR to nomad 1:1 ratio
Show from nomad to device 10 minutes per hour of show average
1 show can be transfered at a time


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## Mike Bertelson

Shades228 said:


> I was using a generic term so that people would understand the intent of the sentence, not the technical aspect, because it happens in real time. People who know the technology would understand that this is not what is happening. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.
> 
> So to simplify since time seems to be the main issue:
> 
> Show from DVR to nomad 1:1 ratio
> Show from nomad to device 10 minutes per hour of show average
> 1 show can be transfered at a time


Where do those times come from? I can't find a source on the web.

Mike


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## RobertE

Mike Bertelson said:


> Where do those times come from? I can't find a source on the web.
> 
> Mike


Training materials that are not, nor should not be made public yet.


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## Shades228

Mike Bertelson said:


> Where do those times come from? I can't find a source on the web.
> 
> Mike


You can now if you Google it you'll get brought back here!


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## Shades228

RobertE said:


> Training materials that are not, nor should not be made public yet.


Good guess but incorrect.


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## markrogo

Shades228 said:


> I was using a generic term so that people would understand the intent of the sentence, not the technical aspect, because it happens in real time. People who know the technology would understand that this is not what is happening. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.
> 
> So to simplify since time seems to be the main issue:
> 
> Show from DVR to nomad 1:1 ratio
> Show from nomad to device 10 minutes per hour of show average
> 1 show can be transfered at a time


So there is no batch processing then. So much for that myth espoused in earlier posts.

The apologists will keep explaining why this is not convoluted, slow or clunky. But normal people have no trouble seeing how 70 minutes to transfer one hour-long program and then starting again to transfer another is all of the above.

Again, there might well be upgrades to the process that make all this better at some point, but as described in your "so to simplify..." example, it's hard to imagine how they could have made it slower, clunkier or more convoluted -- unless they specifically set those negatives as design goals. As I'm sure they didn't, this appears to be a near-perfect achievement of them nevertheless!


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## Mike Bertelson

markrogo said:


> So there is no batch processing then. So much for that myth espoused in earlier posts.
> 
> The apologists will keep explaining why this is not convoluted, slow or clunky. But normal people have no trouble seeing how 70 minutes to transfer one hour-long program and then starting again to transfer another is all of the above.
> 
> Again, there might well be upgrades to the process that make all this better at some point, but as described in your "so to simplify..." example, it's hard to imagine how they could have made it slower, clunkier or more convoluted -- unless they specifically set those negatives as design goals. As I'm sure they didn't, this appears to be a near-perfect achievement of them nevertheless!


If you believe those numbers then yes it would be 70 minutes and the first time you select stuff to transfer then that's what it'll take.

However, it would seem that once I have stuff on my mobile device, I then select some other stuff to watch. When I'm ready for new material I just do the ten minute download. At the same time I select some stuff for the next download.

Nomad is just supposed to let you take your recordings with you. It appears to do that.

BTW, a differing opinion on what is clunky or convoluted doesn't make someone an apologist. There's no need for name calling...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson

Shades228 said:


> Good guess but incorrect.


Then what is the source?

Mike


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## Shades228

markrogo said:


> So there is no batch processing then. So much for that myth espoused in earlier posts.
> 
> The apologists will keep explaining why this is not convoluted, slow or clunky. But normal people have no trouble seeing how 70 minutes to transfer one hour-long program and then starting again to transfer another is all of the above.
> 
> Again, there might well be upgrades to the process that make all this better at some point, but as described in your "so to simplify..." example, it's hard to imagine how they could have made it slower, clunkier or more convoluted -- unless they specifically set those negatives as design goals. As I'm sure they didn't, this appears to be a near-perfect achievement of them nevertheless!


I don't believe I said there isn't a batch process either. As for the convoluted vs non convoluted part well I guess that's the great part about the ability to choose if you want to buy something. I can say that I can't wait for it to come out as we do a lot of travelling and this will make trips easier to keep up on shows as well as keep the kids entertained without losing my voice from singing songs.


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## RobertE

Shades228 said:


> Good guess but incorrect.


I will neither confirm, nor deny that my information comes from the training materials, or from the materials from the device itself. With that being said, I do still chuckle at all the bogus info out here.


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## RobertE

Nomad is also current set for release tomorrow 10/6.


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## dpeters11

Any chance another product is being released tomorrow? Had to ask


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## RobertE

dpeters11 said:


> Any chance another product is being released tomorrow? Had to ask


Sorry, for various reasons, I'm keeping a lot of stuff close to the chest.


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## Tom Robertson

One thing to remember is that most of the download services charge for the service on a per item, per month/year, or both basis. Or there are the illegal "services."

Cheers,
Tom


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## west99999

RobertE said:


> Nomad is also current set for release tomorrow 10/6.


yeah i see that. it just doesnt seem like its all its cracked up to be i mean converting content is real time so 2 hours to transfer a 2 hour show, it deletes after 30 days (which isnt that big of a deal), need open port on router (mine is already full), $149!, Moving content to the nomad is passive, therefore the process will be halted if the DVR with the requested program is conducting a
Whole-Home session. (so if it is halted will i have to start over of what) seems like there is better options out there to stream content


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## dpeters11

"RobertE" said:


> Sorry, for various reasons, I'm keeping a lot of stuff close to the chest.


No problem, had to try. I really wasn't expecting an answer, my wallet and CFO are probably happier.


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## west99999

dpeters11 said:


> Any chance another product is being released tomorrow? Had to ask


what are you hoping for?


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## dpeters11

"west99999" said:


> what are you hoping for?


Nothing Nomad related, HR34.


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## Shades228

west99999 said:


> yeah i see that. it just doesnt seem like its all its cracked up to be i mean converting content is real time so 2 hours to transfer a 2 hour show, it deletes after 30 days (which isnt that big of a deal), need open port on router (mine is already full), $149!, Moving content to the nomad is passive, therefore the process will be halted if the DVR with the requested program is conducting a
> Whole-Home session. (so if it is halted will i have to start over of what) seems like there is better options out there to stream content


Nomad is not meant to be a streaming product. It's not designed or marketed to stream. It's making content portable and there is a difference between that. Nomad is not designed for spur of the moment "oh I want to watch something on my phone or laptop from home". If this is what you expect or want then the nomad will not make you happy. If you want the ability to watch programs on the go that you will plan out in advance. I can think that most people could do 4-5 movies a night easily and 10-12 shows while they sleep. However in the world of instant gratification this is not meant to be the end all be all device.



dpeters11 said:


> Nothing Nomad related, HR34.


Perhaps the correct thread would help.


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## west99999

when you are moving media over telecommunications i call it steaming and that is what you are doing there is nothing portable the shows transfer to the nomad and the nomad stays at your home you dont take it with you to access it you go through the nomad app from your iphone or computer software so that to me is streaming and im just saying there are better ways to do it


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## Laxguy

west99999 said:


> when you are moving media over telecommunications i call it steaming and that is what you are doing there is nothing portable the shows transfer to the nomad and the nomad stays at your home you dont take it with you to access it you go through the nomad app from your iphone or computer software so that to me is streaming and im just saying there are better ways to do it


It's very hard to comprehend what you write, with no caps, no sentence structure. I'd like to understand what you write!


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## Jeremy W

west99999 said:


> when you are moving media over telecommunications i call it steaming


Well I'll just be perfectly honest, nobody cares what your definition of streaming is. It's a very well-defined term, you can't just decide you want to redefine it and expect anyone to follow you.


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## Justin23

west99999 said:


> when you are moving media over telecommunications i call it *steaming* and that is what you are doing there is nothing portable the shows transfer to the nomad and the nomad stays at your home you dont take it with you to access it you go through the nomad app from your iphone or computer software so that to me is streaming and im just saying there are better ways to do it


Huh, what? :eek2:


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## Stuart Sweet

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm closing this thread. It is my hope that when nomad does launch, that we can have an honest discussion of its merits without commenting on our fellow posters.


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