# ASK DBSTalk: Oh Where, Oh Where is SW Release L180 ?



## fjerina (Dec 20, 2003)

Any guess on when the next software release L150 (or whatever) is going to happen? I am getting anxious. Hope that software release will fix the following problems (as least for me):

1. Dropping off OTA channels randomly (where I have to manually re-add them).

2. Being able to record certain OTA channels that the software has problems with (e.g. the 921 not being able to handle certain information in the channel's digital stream).


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I think they mentioned the new release was going to be L180, to add a symbolic 31 flavors to the next release...


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Soon...soon...soon...

I do have a pretty good idea, but that's all I can say right now.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I hope the next S/W release will get rid of all the sudden reboots. It occurs for no apparent reason. I was just watching a satellite channel today and all of a sudden, the 921 rebooted? I was not recording or moving from channel to channel.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Reboots? Yes, a serious problem, but one which we are assured will be fixed this time around. However, I am still concerned about some of the bugs which get a little less attention. What about the inability to remove or tune digital OTA channels which have remapped channel numbers less than 2 or greater than 69?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

If the stretch mode for SD channels isn't fixed in the next release, I'm going to hold my breath until I die (or faint, whichever comes first).


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jerry, I really, really wouldn't suggest doing that...


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> If the stretch mode for SD channels isn't fixed in the next release, I'm going to hold my breath until I die (or faint, whichever comes first).


I agree wholeheartedly on this! I wish Mark could give us some indication if this has been resolved with the next release......  .


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

If he said "YES", would he be stretching the truth?


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Jerry G said:


> If the stretch mode for SD channels isn't fixed in the next release, I'm going to hold my breath until I die (or faint, whichever comes first).


Can I have your 921?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Let me put it this way...I hope that Jerry can hold his breath for a few weeks...


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Let me put it this way...I hope that Jerry can hold his breath for a few weeks...


Does that mean that we just shouldn't expect any new software updates anytime soon then?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No...it was specifically geared towards what Jerry is holding his breath over.

Remember my cryptic comment about the 2 planets aligning...


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> No...it was specifically geared towards what Jerry is holding his breath over.
> 
> Remember my cryptic comment about the 2 planets aligning...


Haven't forgotten about the planets aligning. Man, I'm still trying to figure out exactly which two planets are close to being in the same radial path with regard to some other celestial object to produce alignment.  Six months ago, Mars was as close to Earth as it has been in like 60,000 years. It has since moved out of alignment, so at least we can rule out those two planets.  It still seems like it should be earth and one of the DBS satellites. However, those DBS satellites are geo-syncronous. They are always aligned with our receivers....

Hindsight always makes things clear.....


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## MattG (Dec 31, 2003)

There's going to be a new moon and a partial solar eclipse on the 19th this month. Hopefully the 921 programmers are moving out of catastrophic bugfix mode and into new feature implementation mode by now.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth.

Only one planet on that list.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

We can always pretend everyting is aligned, and we got an update that is just peachy. No freezups, zoom and stretch work, no problems with channels without PSIP streams, and of course, OTA guide info!! Woo hoo!


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Hey Jerry- I have now purchased one of the new flat screen TV's (HDTV of course) for my new kitchen nearing completion. I am trying to learn to love short fat people in stretch mode.  What I did discover is that the 16x9 flat screen TV has it's own stretch modes so you leave the 921 in normal and then stretch the monitor. It has a mode like the one everyone is complaining about on the 921 as well as a proper stretch mode that is what people wish their 921 would have. 
What I still fail to understand, is if the 921 get's it's stretch mode fixed as per the desired degree of stretch, then how is that better than what the monitors do on their own?


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## bytre (Sep 10, 2003)

April 16? Or 29?


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Let me put it this way...I hope that Jerry can hold his breath for a few weeks...


Mark. Are you referring to L180 or the stretch mode fix? I had a feeling that L180 would be out this week. Should I hold out any hope? !pride


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm not referring to L180, although it's not looking so good for L180 to be out this week...as today's Friday and all...


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Hey Jerry- I have now purchased one of the new flat screen TV's (HDTV of course) for my new kitchen nearing completion. I am trying to learn to love short fat people in stretch mode.  What I did discover is that the 16x9 flat screen TV has it's own stretch modes so you leave the 921 in normal and then stretch the monitor. It has a mode like the one everyone is complaining about on the 921 as well as a proper stretch mode that is what people wish their 921 would have.
> What I still fail to understand, is if the 921 get's it's stretch mode fixed as per the desired degree of stretch, then how is that better than what the monitors do on their own?


Are you using the 921 in HD mode or SD mode? Most HDTVs do not allow the stretch modes to be active in 720p or 1080i mode, because these signals are already supposed to be full 16:9 anamorphic signals. Even if the content being broadcast is a 4:3 image within the 16:9 anamorphic frame, the television sees the full frame and disallows stretching.

This is in comparison to 480i and 480p, which can be either 4:3 or 16:9 signals, and hence HDTVs allow their stretch modes to be applied for these cases. With the 921, since it has no "pass through mode" (as of right now), if one is watching all channels in HD mode, the signal sent out by the 921 will be 720p or 1080i (even on SD channels), and hence only the 921 can perform the stretching.

Thus, our problem. If you like to watch TV stretched, the 921 either needs to incorporate a "pass original signal through unmolested" mode, or the stretch modes need to be golden.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I thought this article may shed some light, but nothing about a real "alignment".

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/fab_five.html


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Jerry G said:


> If the stretch mode for SD channels isn't fixed in the next release, I'm going to hold my breath until I die (or faint, whichever comes first).


A work around for the SD stretch problem is to change the display setting to 4/3 option 2. I recorded the key strokes into a macro on my MX500 remote now I can swith back and forth with a single key stroke.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

sgt940 said:


> A work around for the SD stretch problem is to change the display setting to 4/3 option 2. I recorded the key strokes into a macro on my MX500 remote now I can swith back and forth with a single key stroke.


I have learned to like SD in 4*3 with sidebars.
The 921 zoom mode does work well for LB movies or shows on SD channels.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Also. stretch mode on CBS-HD 4*3 shows also looks good. ex. Survivor All-stars


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

sgt940 said:


> A work around for the SD stretch problem is to change the display setting to 4/3 option 2. I recorded the key strokes into a macro on my MX500 remote now I can swith back and forth with a single key stroke.


I'm aware of that work around, but I shouldn't have to do it if Dish would fix what is a major bug that's been around since day one.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> I have learned to like SD in 4*3 with sidebars.
> The 921 zoom mode does work well for LB movies or shows on SD channels.


Actually if you stretch using the 921 in 4*3 (option #2, option 2 is the key here) you get full screen, very close to proper proportions ( at least on my HDTV 16:9). I actually put my 501 SD picture side by side with the above set up and there was little stretching.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

What I am doing is this:
Sony XBR 50 LCD RPTV - component
921 set to 16*9 1080i
Sony thus defaults to "full" mode on tv

SD Channels thus come in with sidebars. I will "zoom" LB SD movies to fill in 16*9 well. 
HD - 16*9
CBS-HD or OTA digital non-HD, usally stay in "normal"=4*3 sidebars.
EXCEPT, CBS-HD east likes to use GRAY sidebars. I really do not like it!! With "stretch", it fills in 16*9 nicely with minimal short\fat people!


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## nextime (Jan 28, 2004)

This thread seems to have meandered off course. When is the next software update going to be released. Its pushing two months.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

nextime said:


> This thread seems to have meandered off course. When is the next software update going to be released. Its pushing two months.


It's gotta be this week! On nothing more than speculation, if it's not out this week I would think they ran into some unforeseen problems. !pride


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

On last nights Charlie Chat, he said the 921's were shipping. Would seem logical most of the bugs would be ironed out and installed in those being shipped. If so they need to be passed on to those waiting for so long. In the meantime i'll keep booting and re booting!


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

deweybrunner said:


> On last nights Charlie Chat, he said the 921's were shipping. Would seem logical most of the bugs would be ironed out and installed in those being shipped. If so they need to be passed on to those waiting for so long. In the meantime i'll keep booting and re booting!


The ones that are shipping (at least the one I got last week) are shipping with L149. You already have the same software.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Eagles said:


> It's gotta be this week! On nothing more than speculation, if it's not out this week I would think they ran into some unforeseen problems.


I think the natives are getting restless! :goofygrin


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

Mark,

We are all waiting for news on L180. I know you can't be specific but can you tell us if new problems were encountered that prohibited L180 from being released last week. If so, in your opinion are those problems close to being resolved.

For the life of me I cannot solve the riddle concerning the small and large planets aligning. Any hints?


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## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

Yeah Mark, please give us something. We're all dying here! My forehead is sore from banging it on my desk trying to figure out your riddle. :shrug:


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I looked up all the old messages about new releases spooling and they were all on Monday or Tuesday. So, I'd only hold my breath for 12 more hours, then hyperventilate over the weekend in preparation for holding it next Monday and Tuesday.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Things have changed just a little bit since I left that cryptic message about the planets...

I really wish I could be more specific, but right this moment I can't say much more than I already have. Some things did in fact come up last week with L180. They are being fixed, but it's the kind of thing that requires a great deal of testing. Take for instance last night - I worked on the 921 from about 8:00pm my time until after midnight testing. Then more this morning from 5:30 to 7:00 or so before I left for work. 

If and when I get the word that L180 is being sent, I'll definitely pass it on, but the way things have gone for the last 4 releases, you guys have found out about the public release before I have.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Steve - new releases have been sent on Wednesdays and Thursdays, not Mondays and Tuesdays. The standard releases have all come on Thursday. The last 2 emergency releases came on Wendesdays (I know L149 came on a Wednesday, and am pretty sure that L147 also came down on a Wednesday). L180 will be the first major fix release since L146, and it's a big one - hence the effort going into the testing.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

Mea Culpa.

I did a search for "Spooling" and looked at the post dates. Unfortunately I looked at the "last post" dates for each thread... Here is what I see on the "First post dates"...

L146 2/19 Thursday
L147 3/5 Friday
L149 3/23 Tuesday

Can't say there is a pattern there. So, I guess just holding your breath is probably a bad idea.

Time to stop fretting over all this and just watch a movie that my 921 recorded successfully.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Cheezmo said:


> Mea Culpa.
> 
> I did a search for "Spooling" and looked at the post dates. Unfortunately I looked at the "last post" dates for each thread... Here is what I see on the "First post dates"...
> 
> ...


Yep, one of those "emergency" releases did come on Friday, and it caught us all by surprise, because we were told Friday releases "Never" happen!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

And the first new public release was L145, which came on Thursday, 1/24. I know that one well because it was my birthday, and I was home in bed with the flu.


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

Mark,

How many software/hardware beta testers does Echostar have for the 921?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

180 is scheduled to be released today. Whether or not it will actually happen is another story.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> 180 is scheduled to be released today. Whether or not it will actually happen is another story.


What is your source for this info? !pride


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jerry - L180 is not scheduled to be released today. If it actually shows up today, I will be very, very shocked. There was something scheduled for today, but it wasn't the release of L180.

Rodney - quite a few. Sorry, I can't be more specific than that, but that's specifically covered under the NDA for some reason.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Jerry - L180 is not scheduled to be released today. If it actually shows up today, I will be very, very shocked. There was something scheduled for today, but it wasn't the release of L180.


Maybe my Dish contact was confused, but he seemed pretty certain and he's been correct about the release dates in the past. I guess we'll see. I was also told that the stretch fix for the SD channels didn't make it into the 180 software.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

He's correct about that - the AR is supposed to be in the next release after L180...

HINT - 2 planets...smaller and larger...but no longer by the end of the month.

Something else was scheduled for today, which he very well may have confused with the release - I could see that pretty easily.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I hope they understand that the smaller and larger planets don't need to be aligned perfectly. For example, our planet does not orbit the sun by an exact integer number of rotations (days). That is why we have the Gregorian, then the Julian calendars.

I don't think any 921 user expects perfection in the next release. We simply want some new software that is better than what we have.  

Maybe we need to re-think this riddle. If it is not by the end of this month, then we will be looking at about a three month release interval (L147 and L149 don't count as releases). Is there a planetoid that revolves around another body in three months time? How long is a year on a moon for mercury?

There needs to be three bodies to require alignment. With only two, there is -always- alignment. Maybe this simply refers to the next eclipse. Earth (big planet) and moon (small planetoid) in alignment with reference to the sun. Next month sometime?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Maybe this will help...think of L180 as a smaller red planet in the grand scheme of things...


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

With all the great minds out there someone should be able to figure out this riddle. It would be great if we could before Mark. Maybe we can get him to give us another strong clue? An old salesman, like myself, knows little about the alignment of the planets! Now every one put their minds to work!


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

> =Something else was scheduled for today, which he very well may have confused with the release - I could see that pretty easily.


Mark, What exactly was scheduled for release yesterday? Did it happen? If so, what was it?
!pride


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## bdemz (Sep 18, 2002)

??


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I can't tell you that Eagles. If I could, I already would have.

And see, my plan has worked! If I confuse you with a riddle, it draws your attention away from all of the reboots and missed recordings of the 921!


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I just got off the phone with one of Dish's engineers who called me in response to an e-mail I sent to [email protected]. He talked to me about the issues many of us are experiencing with the 921, particularly the reboot problems. He informed me that there is currently a list of about 36 problems that are being worked on and that L180 will fix about half of them, including the reboot problem and several OTA issues (he wasn't specific on those). I was told that L180 will be out by the end of April and could actually be any day now. I hope that he gave me correct information. I also asked about hardware issues and if there were any plans to recall existing units. He told me that the only hardware issue was the much-talked-about vertical blue line problem. He said that there are no plans for a recall.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That agrees with the information I have right now for the most part (although the 36 problems are the major ones and don't count the more minor issues). But, it's not quite there yet. Close, but there's still something nasty (yes, worse than the random reboots) hitting some of us.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Nasty? And that is....?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

FarNorth said:


> Nasty? And that is....?


He probably can't tell us what it is, as he has not been able to disclose or volunteer information like that in the past.

Maybe rephrasing the question might help....
A problem that is worse than random reboots may or may not be that bad. The question to Mark is, "is this problem easily identifiable and easy to reproduce?" Based on what the problem is, and how reproducable it is, does it seem like a problem that should be fixable in short order?? Or is the problem going to be difficult to fix, the same as random reboots and spontaneous OTA failures??


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That's an excellent way of rephrasing the question, I concur. Still can't answer it, but really, very good. 

I try to pass along to you guys as much as I can. But, stuff like this I can't talk specifically about.


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

Okay,
it has to do with the Gem"Star" / Echo"Star" settlement. The issues are on the new name based recording versus the currect Dish DVR "Timer" operations. They hope to get this resolved so they can roll this out in 180. 

Sorry, I just woke up from my dream.. What is the issue again  (I thought I better put in the smiley because someone is bound to take this seriously..)

Tim


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I started laughing before I saw your smilie. Glad you put that one in there!


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

Mark, 

Could the riddle have anything to do with the 922 and its introduction in May?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Rodney said:


> Mark,
> 
> Could the riddle have anything to do with the 922 and its introduction in May?


Is the 922 red like Mark added to his riddle?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No, the 922 has nothing to do with this.

Codenames were used for the next 2 software releases. One of them is a little red planet, the other is a much larger planet...indicative of the number of things planned to be fixed in each release. Both releases were originally scheduled to be released in April, hence the "planets aligning", when after the second release, most of the bugs and problems would be fixed.

The timeframe has changed, but everything else is still on track.


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

Thanks for the explanation Mark. I am terrible at riddles.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The timeframe has changed, but everything else is still on track.


I was told by Dish engineer L180 is scheduled for release on Wednesday 04/21/04 provided no problems arise. He told me problems arose which pushed back the scheduled release. These problems have been corrected, and L180 is now in beta testing for next weeks release.
!pride


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

The problem was probably that they need to take the "DVHS Setup" item out of the Preference Menu now that the cat is out of the bag.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The delay has nothing to do with the current mess of the dishwire ports. 

Eagles, what you were told is mostly true. We're still trying to isolate one more issue...I was working on it until past 1am this morning, and spent a couple of hours re-wiring my entire setup temporarily last night in the attempt. I'll know when I get home tonight whether I found it or not.


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