# How is your HR2x performing?



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

From what I can tell, there will likely be a new NR within the next few weeks. In preparation for that, I want to try and get a pulse on the overall performance of the HR2x platform .. 

I'm adding a line item this time around as I'd appreciate it if folks who are running a Cutting Edge version not vote in this poll. Also, I'm going to keep it anonymous. Please be honest regardless of whether you think it's great or whether you think it's poor.

How is your HR2x or R22 performing on 0x312 firmware?

The scale is a simple letter grade .. Enjoy!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I think the pulse is beating strong...and spirited. 

Mike


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## kramer (Jun 6, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> From what I can tell, there will likely be a new NR within the next few weeks. In preparation for that, I want to try and get a pulse on the overall performance of the HR2x platform ..
> 
> I'm adding a line item this time around as I'd appreciate it if folks who are running a Cutting Edge version not vote in this poll. Also, I'm going to keep it anonymous. Please be honest regardless of whether you think it's great or whether you think it's poor.
> 
> ...


Koolaid + Take a big sip it will not hurt you!

LAMO:nono2:


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

I have 1 HR20-100 on CE and 2 running 312 NR so I voted. I can't see any difference between them. All 3 work quite well with no issues.


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## KoRn (Oct 21, 2008)

Voted A. Never had any problems with it. I have 1 minor complaint and it seems like every one else has the same. It is extremely slowwwwww!!!! :nono2: The box is great for every thing else. Why DTV cannot get this thing to move fast?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

KoRn said:


> Voted A. Never had any problems with it. I have 1 minor complaint and it seems like every one else has the same. It is extremely slowwwwww!!!! :nono2: The box is great for every thing else. Why DTV cannot get this thing to move fast?


Ah, what are you going to vote it at when it does get faster? You already used the A! 

I'm obviously a ce'er, but I voted anyway based on my folks feedback. I hear about their system all the time, and I ask them how its working, and I haven't had a complaint in months...

Doug, you can remove an A grade from me if you like....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

kramer said:


> Koolaid + Take a big sip it will not hurt you!
> 
> LAMO:nono2:


What Koolaid? I don't see where he stated an opinion in any way shape or form, and that comment implies he did. SO please, explain....

If you have an issue, vote accordingly, and even state your issue here. Your obviously someone who doesn't feel the need for anonymity....


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## MLBurks (Dec 16, 2005)

kramer said:


> Koolaid + Take a big sip it will not hurt you!
> 
> LAMO:nono2:


Ummm, I'm not sure what your problem is. Maybe you are the one drowning in Koolaid. Tell me what he said that was opinionated or partisan to anything in any way. Your post was LAMO.


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## MLBurks (Dec 16, 2005)

I voted C. My HR21-200 is better when watching an SD program with NATIVE set to ON. Watching an HD feed, that's a different story. The unit becomes very slow and sluggish. Navigating through the menus and the guide is a frustrating chore. I often browse and program the DVR online because of this. Also, using 30 second slip often will shoot me to the end of the program instantly. That is ultimate frustration. My Motorola HD DVR from Charter was faster than this. And that box was a piece of crap. So, the main problem with my HR21 is SPEED.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

I have an HR20-700 running the latest CE and one HR20-700 that I leave "untouched" as sort of a control unit. It's out of the box, non-networked, with no customizations at all (favorites and such). It's not over-worked by any means, but I try and exercise it with a few SL's, manual recordings and such. That being said, the HR20 on the NR has been completely reliable, it did pick up the global guide problem and needed to be re-booted, but has yet to miss a requested recording. It seems to run slightly slower than the unit I have running the latest CE. I may be a bit biased, but overall the unit does what it was meant to do, so I gave it a "B" in anticipation of a little more speed....


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

HR20-700, HR21-100, HR21-700.

They all work. I don't experience deleted recordings or man other problems. My major complaint is the slow response to remote controls. It is really bad. Slow is the new fast.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Sorry, I'm not big on anonymity. Mine work great. No issues I can attribute to the last NR. I've got nine and not one of them are slow.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

kramer said:


> Koolaid + Take a big sip it will not hurt you!
> 
> LAMO:nono2:


Ya got a point? What ever it is I'm missin' it.

Mike


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

I voted D for the following problems,

1. Audio brrrrip and drop. 70% of my recordings have at least one of these.
2. Channels I get problems. Starting to think they will never fix this.
3. 30 sec slip Jump to end problem. This has gotten really bad with NR 312.
4. Slow gui.
5. Inconsistent remote response.
6. Inconsistent search results. Think this is linked to #2.
7. Incomplete guide data. Mostly stations fault but D has to take some responsibility.
8. Slow channel change speed (2 sec would be great, mine is 6 to 10 sec)
9. Inconsistent trick play.
10. 50 Series link limit.
11. No DLB.
12. No PIP.

However, I just checked my recording history and found 7 missed recordings in the past month with either "This showing is over" or "This episode was not recorded because the program was no longer available. (13)". Luckily most of these shows have had later showings that were recorded.
If a DVR can’t reliably record the programs you tell it to than it fails its basic function and deserves an F.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I am surprised that as of this posting there are 26 people that voted 'A'. Seriously? Any of you that voted 'A' ever used a Dish Network DVR?

I can understand liking the box and even defending it but the speed is an issue for me even if everything else was perfect. (and it's not!)

Maybe I drink Mountain Dew a little too much?

Here I am slowing..... Down.....


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

If your living on stale rice and someone gives you a piece of KFC chicken it will taste like a dream. Don't ask them how a juicy steak would taste, for right now they are happy with Chicken:lol:



Mike Greer said:


> I am surprised that as of this posting there are 26 people that voted 'A'. Seriously? Any of you that voted 'A' ever used a Dish Network DVR?
> 
> I can understand liking the box and even defending it but the speed is an issue for me even if everything else was perfect. (and it's not!)
> 
> ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I am surprised that as of this posting there are 26 people that voted 'A'. Seriously? Any of you that voted 'A' ever used a Dish Network DVR?
> 
> I can understand liking the box and even defending it but the speed is an issue for me even if everything else was perfect. (and it's not!)
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure they voted 'A' because that's what they wanted to vote. :grin:

Seriously, there's not need to chastise members for how the feel about their receivers.

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I voted "B" it's absolutely ridiculous that 26 people would vote "A".

Voting "A" would mean you have No missed recordings, No Briiips, and your speed is lighting fast. 

While I think some people may not have missed a recording, which is only due to there minimal DVR usage, I think everyone's DVR Briiips and is sluggish to some extent.

Giving it an "A" is saying that it's perfect and this DVR is far from perfect. If you want to fool yourselves and the engineers at Directv into thinking everything is perfect, then have fun and keep dreaming


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats a Major problem yet you are sending a message to the Directv engineering staff that you think the Box is Perfect



KoRn said:


> Voted A. Never had any problems with it. I have 1 minor complaint and it seems like every one else has the same. It is extremely slowwwwww!!!! :nono2: The box is great for every thing else. Why DTV cannot get this thing to move fast?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> I'm pretty sure they voted 'A' because that's what they wanted to vote. :grin:
> 
> Seriously, there's not need to chastise members for how the feel about their receivers.
> 
> Mike


Didn't mean to 'chastise'.... If 'A' voters really are in love with their DVRs I'm happy for them!

It is a serious question.... Have they used a Dish DVR? I just don't see how they could think there isn't room to improve but if that's how it is, well, that's how it is!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> I voted "B" it's absolutely ridiculous that 26 people would vote "A".
> 
> Voting "A" would mean you have No missed recordings, No Briiips, and your speed is lighting fast.
> 
> ...


Well, you are wrong. My folks never miss recordings. They do NOT have the burp issue on anything they record. And they record constantly. During the regular tv season, they record probably 6 to 12 hours of programing a day, and during the summer they record probably 8 series a week, and then also record as many movies as they think they might watch. They also have ARSLs set up for the Dodgers and Angels.

The units are on NR, and are lightning fast in comparison to the tivos they used to use, and about the same as the replaytvs and ultimate tvs they used to have.

They do manly use HR20-700's (3 of them).... And a few ce's back, their one HR21-700 was every slow, and I did hear about that almost daily.. Haven;t heard a peep out of them on it since the last NR. Thats not to say it can;t be faster and better, but they are completely satisfied right now with what they have. SO your assessment is nothing more than your opinion of your personal experience and expectations.

I personally would rate it a B on my hr20-700s and a F if I had a HR21-100 still on NR... based on it needing to be faster. SO do not think I am biased, because I am not...


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Mike Greer said:



> Didn't mean to 'chastise'.... If 'A' voters really are in love with their DVRs I'm happy for them!
> 
> It is a serious question.... Have they used a Dish DVR? I just don't see how they could think there isn't room to improve but if that's how it is, well, that's how it is!


Thanks for your words Mike, even if they are off-topic.

I just voted A. (I have one HR20-700 on NR)


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Didn't mean to 'chastise'.... If 'A' voters really are in love with their DVRs I'm happy for them!
> 
> It is a serious question.... Have they used a Dish DVR? I just don't see how they could think there isn't room to improve but if that's how it is, well, that's how it is!


I personally don't think an A vote means they don't think things can get better.. But that they are happy with what they have now, and anything else will be icing on the cake and of course welcome with open arms.. Per my last post, different people have different expectations and requirements for something to be considered an A machine, and even if they did use a Dish DVR, they may not find it better or worse, just different..


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I personally don't think an A vote means they don't think things can get better..


that would be an A+ (if things got better)


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

bdcottle said:


> I voted D for the following problems,
> 
> 1. Audio brrrrip and drop. 70% of my recordings have at least one of these.
> 2. Channels I get problems. Starting to think they will never fix this.
> ...


2. I agree the CIG is an issue, but not one I have to deal with at this time, because I have permanent ARSLs that created a workaround for it, and I never have to worry about it except for that one time I created the ARSLs... I'd like to have it working though SO I don't have to create workarounds at all, but its arbitrary at this point for me...

6. What do you mean by inconsistent? I am curious what is inconsistent on your search results, because mine are and always have been consistent. I would like to see if I can duplicate your issue on that.

7. Unfortunately, this really does have nothing to do with DIrectv, and they can not change it in any way. I don;t see how any of the responsibility can be put on them for something that is out of their control.

10. I still have faith we will see this lifted or removed someday... 

11. 

12. I doubt we will see this feature...  But it wouldn't make me vote a grade lower by itself...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Ah, what are you going to vote it at when it does get faster? You already used the A!
> 
> 
> > Basically this is what I am curious about.
> ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

We Should Keep On Topic Please.

:backtotop


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Are we off topic?



Doug Brott said:


> And with that, it seems we've hit a good stopping point .. Feel free to continue your discussion here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=162303


__________________


Doug Brott said:


> ...I want to try and get a pulse on the overall performance of the HR2x platform ..
> 
> I'm adding a line item this time around as I'd appreciate it if folks who are running a Cutting Edge version not vote in this poll. Also, I'm going to keep it anonymous. Please be honest regardless of whether you think it's great or whether you think it's poor.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to restart the old thread here.... I just had an honest question about what people are comparing their HR2X to get the 'A' grade.

I guess it's hard to get real info from these polls - people at both ends are always going to be there!


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The poll is to rate a person's experience with their NR DVR(s), simple as that. 

No where does it state anything about a comparison.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Apparently I am blessed with the complete inability to communicate. Please disregard my posts.:eek2:

Can I change my vote to 'A' please?


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> 2. I agree the CIG is an issue, but not one I have to deal with at this time, because I have permanent ARSLs that created a workaround for it, and I never have to worry about it except for that one time I created the ARSLs... I'd like to have it working though SO I don't have to create workarounds at all, but its arbitrary at this point for me...
> 
> 6. What do you mean by inconsistent? I am curious what is inconsistent on your search results, because mine are and always have been consistent. I would like to see if I can duplicate your issue on that.
> 
> ...


Well for #6 Future Weapons and Mythbusters sometimes I get correct results sometimes not, and sometimes I get results for channels I don't get. Back to #2
And for #7, I really got to disagree with you on this one. I think they buy their guide data from Tribune. If the guide data is not acceptable than it is up to D* to make sure they're getting what they pay for or switch suppliers.
A few years ago Ford was putting Firestone tires on the Explorer. In sharp turns the tires would fail and the Explorer would roll. Does Ford not have any responsibility for the roll-overs?


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

My HR21 is *painfully* slow. I think it is now slower to respond to the remote than it has ever been (I am in about month 15 with this unit. A prize to anyone who can tell me how many software "upgrades" we have seen during that time).

I had hoped to have a decent DVR by football season. One that has DLB, is responsive to the remote and has slow-mo that actually works for sports. Hopefully we will see the new Tivo box soon.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

This is as good a place to ask as any&#8230; Is the _brriiip _issue only experienced on the HD DVR units?

It actually doesn't bother me, but I thought I'd ask. That and CIG issue are like so far down on the list they're not even complaints, lol.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Tom Servo said:


> This is as good a place to ask as any&#8230; Is the _brriiip _issue only experienced on the HD DVR units?
> 
> It actually doesn't bother me, but I thought I'd ask. That and CIG issue are like so far down on the list they're not even complaints, lol.


The 'brriiip' issue is more of a station problem than a sat service issue from what I can see. I've seen it on both D* and E* HDDVRs and at a friend's cable system.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I am surprised that as of this posting there are 26 people that voted 'A'. Seriously? Any of you that voted 'A' ever used a Dish Network DVR?
> 
> I can understand liking the box and even defending it but the speed is an issue for me even if everything else was perfect. (and it's not!)
> 
> ...


Very seriously. You've been offered help. The idea of three HRs doing the same thing and blaming that on the HRs borders on the ridiculous. The odds on the HRs being at fault has got to be astronomically high.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Very seriously. You've been offered help. The idea of three HRs doing the same thing and blaming that on the HRs borders on the ridiculous. The odds on the HRs being at fault has got to be astronomically high.


Different issue, I wasn't refering to my specific stuttering through the menus troubles, just the general lack of speed of the HR2X series and people giving it an 'A' grade.


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## ASAOG (Oct 7, 2008)

Nicholsen said:


> My HR21 is *painfully* slow. I think it is now slower to respond to the remote than it has ever been (I am in about month 15 with this unit. A prize to anyone who can tell me how many software "upgrades" we have seen during that time).
> 
> I had hoped to have a decent DVR by football season. One that has DLB, is responsive to the remote and has slow-mo that actually works for sports. Hopefully we will see the new Tivo box soon.


Ditto for my HR22. Extremely slow. I am comparing to my previous HR20 with older software.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> I voted "B" it's absolutely ridiculous that 26 people would vote "A".
> 
> Voting "A" would mean you have No missed recordings, No Briiips, and your speed is lighting fast.
> 
> ...


I do get the occasional briips, but I don't think that factors into how they function. I have no missed recordings and mine are all fast enough for me. As fast as my SD TiVos were.

About the missed recordings: No one could possibly call our HR usage "minimal". Mine record programs everyday and we watch a lot of TV. And we don't watch one HR, we spread the usage out. All I've got to compare it to are VCRs, Ultimate TV DVRs, and TiVos. And none of them were faster than my HRs.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> My HR21 is *painfully* slow. I think it is now slower to respond to the remote than it has ever been (I am in about month 15 with this unit. A prize to anyone who can tell me how many software "upgrades" we have seen during that time).
> 
> I had hoped to have a decent DVR by football season. One that has DLB, is responsive to the remote and has slow-mo that actually works for sports. Hopefully we will see the new Tivo box soon.





ASAOG said:


> Ditto for my HR22. Extremely slow. I am comparing to my previous HR20 with older software.


You guys and your 'slow' comments are going to be in trouble if you don't join the flock and admit you don't really have any performance problems!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> You guys and your 'slow' comments are going to be in trouble if you don't join the flock and admit you don't really have any performance problems!


So true... 

Last night I checked the HR21-700 I have. I'm down to 10% of the time used on the HD, 6 series links, no network connection and I even sacrificed a chicken on the grill last night while saying some incantations.

No help, still seems slow as molasses.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Different issue, I wasn't referring to my specific stuttering through the menus troubles, just the general lack of speed of the HR2X series and people giving it an 'A' grade.


The speed is what I was referring to. I just got rid of a 22 that was as quick as any of my 21s and you're having a speed problem on three of them. It's not your 22s that are slow.

Stuttering on the menus? I've never seen that and you've got it on three new 22s? Sounds like another symptom caused by something other than your 22s.


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## ASAOG (Oct 7, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> You guys and your 'slow' comments are going to be in trouble if you don't join the flock and admit you don't really have any performance problems!


I know for certain my HR22 is slow because my wife complains about how long it takes to switch from the HSN channel to QVC.:grin:


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

I voted D. It was a solid C until yesterday. I have the slowness that everyone else has, but add total system lockups to the mix and I'm frustrated. I had to reboot the DVR twice yesterday.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

OK, I just redid the calculations on the poll as of right now and threw out the CE votes as they just skew the %'s and don't paint any picture at all.

Assuming those that voted C, D or F are primarily because of the speed and remote response issues, then roughly 32% of those responding see it as an issue. That is very bad to have nearly a third of respondents not happy with their gear.

You can point to the install, the wire or whatever, it still says a lot about the overall operation of an installation that is not good. D* needs to work on this.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> The speed is what I was referring to. I just got rid of a 22 that was as quick as any of my 21s and you're having a speed problem on three of them. It's not your 22s that are slow.
> 
> Stuttering on the menus? I've never seen that and you've got it on three new 22s? Sounds like another symptom caused by something other than your 22s.


I do appreciate your willingness to help but if you don't see a speed issue with the HR2x receivers I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

lparsons21 is using both a Dish 722k and an HR box - maybe he can explain more clearly than I can what the trouble is?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I do appreciate your willingness to help but if you don't see a speed issue with the HR2x receivers I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> lparsons21 is using both a Dish 722k and an HR box - maybe he can explain more clearly than I can what the trouble is?


I wish I could. My install is a single TV install, 2 wires from dish to HR via BBCs to HDMI out to the AVR. It has been checked and double checked, repeaked, 5 HRs (4 HR20's, 1 HR21) and everything used to work a bit slow, but it was OK. A little slow without the remote response issues was slightly irritating and had things not gotten nearly progressively worse with each passing update, I would still be only in the D* camp.

How the 2 HDDVRs operate is like night and day as far as speed and remote response is concerned. Both have never missed a recording that I remember, and both have the 'brriip' issue on occasion.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

rich584 said:


> All I've got to compare it to are VCRs, Ultimate TV DVRs, and TiVos. And none of them were faster than my HRs.


Funny you mentioned a VCR because I can go into my bedroom, pop in a tape and be watching it quicker than selecting and playing a show on the living room DVR. (It's a fast loading VCR.) :lol:

Even though I've complained a lot about the slowness of the DVR, it would still grade a 'B' if it were just about being slow. I give mine a 'C' for some other reasons, like the Quick Tune feature that doesn't show what's on the channels like I recall the Hughes receivers doing, the flakey and buggy Media Share and TV Apps that are in beta but foisted on everyone, the slow interactive content, and the fact that my receiver is now faster but only because said interactive content mysteriously no longer works.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

The Briip issue does not happen on the orginal uplink feeds, it seems to be a problem with the MPeg4 compression being used. So IMO it is not always a station problem.



lparsons21 said:


> The 'brriiip' issue is more of a station problem than a sat service issue from what I can see. I've seen it on both D* and E* HDDVRs and at a friend's cable system.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The Briip issue does not happen on the orginal uplink feeds, it seems to be a problem with the MPeg4 compression being used. So IMO it is not always a station problem.


OK. But I've noticed it more on some stations and not others. TNT and my locals in HD for the most part.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Overall my HR22's do everything I need, but I do experience the following issues:

1. Inconsistent remote response.
2. Slow channel change speed, even with native off.
3. 30 sec slip jumps to end problem
4. Channels I get not accurate


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Servo said:


> Funny you mentioned a VCR because I can go into my bedroom, pop in a tape and be watching it quicker than selecting and playing a show on the living room DVR. (It's a fast loading VCR.) :lol:
> 
> Even though I've complained a lot about the slowness of the DVR, it would still grade a 'B' if it were just about being slow. I give mine a 'C' for some other reasons, like the Quick Tune feature that doesn't show what's on the channels like I recall the Hughes receivers doing, the flakey and buggy Media Share and TV Apps that are in beta but foisted on everyone, the slow interactive content, and the fact that my receiver is now faster but only because said interactive content mysteriously no longer works.


That was the quickest part of VCRs. When I found my first DVR, I was running twelve Sony VCRs (best PQ) and if it wasn't for VCR+, I don't know how I could have done it. Took me an hour every morning. Nothing fast about that. :lol:

Rich


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

My HR20 has been pretty much flawless for several months.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Everything works except D* Apps.


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## eileen22 (Mar 24, 2006)

I voted D because:

1) I'm having many recordings with jerky audio & video playback, a problem that I have never had prior to this release.
2) I recently had a partial recording, where the program stopped recording with about 12 minutes to go in the program, for no apparent reason or explanation - again, this is the first time I've had this issue.
3) Remote control response still very slow - this has definitely improved from the slowness I was experiencing in the weeks leading up to the upgrade, but is still not as responsive as it has been in the past.


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## jet75080 (Jan 7, 2007)

It is slow, I have to reset it every day, there seems to be time when it freeze frames and then moves on. My unit worked so much better last month before this release came in. When it slows down, I cant change channel or do anything.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

+1 extremely inconsistent and slooooooow button responses. This is a product that was never ready to ship. It acts like there's a constant buffer overload someplace that always takes time to clear after even one button push. I can hit a button 5 or 6 times and nothing happens. Reedickless.

And still no true slo-mo. Astonishingly incompetent design.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> And still no true slo-mo. Astonishingly incompetent design.


There never will be a true slo-mo .. it's not on the remote.


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## MLBurks (Dec 16, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> There never will be a true slo-mo .. it's not on the remote.


IMHO, that is another D* design flaw. The D* remote is the least liked remote for me if compared to E*, Charter cable, and practically any universal remote that you can buy at Wallyworld.


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## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

My HR21-700/AM21 is still sluggish in remote response, with occasional bouts of key bounce and slow response to numerical button pushes. Other than that, I'm quite pleased with the response and performance of my HR20-700 and HR20-100.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

I voted C mainly because the biiiiirp issue is getting worse. I have no idea if it is the DVR or the source data stream but the end result is not good. Also the remote is sluggish, mine is a recent refer HR22 replacing an original HR-200 which reacted faster to remote commands.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

Sorry I haven't looked at firmware # lately, but, mine are getting old and never a serious problem with any of the 3.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

I should add that the two HR-20s are controlled by an MX-900 remote with MRF-260 wireless receiver. My wife uses the HR-21 + off air adaptor with DTV white remote, no complaints there either.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

rich584 said:


> That was the quickest part of VCRs. When I found my first DVR, I was running twelve Sony VCRs (best PQ) and if it wasn't for VCR+, I don't know how I could have done it. Took me an hour every morning. Nothing fast about that. :lol:
> 
> Rich


Those Sony VCRs were solid performers. I've got a friend who'll probably have to be buried with his the day it dies.

One feature from my JVC that I dearly miss on the DVR is commercial skip. It would go back and mark commercials after recording and automatically skip them. Worked about 95% of the time, too. Now I have to sit here and push a button (lol).


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

I used to have some of the problems that some are reporting in this thread. Someone here suggested I gently wrench tighten the connections to see if it would help. Ever since I did that I have had very few lockups. I haven't had to do a RBR in several months.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Your center pin connector is to short. You should get new connector ends put on your cable, because overtime the center pins tend to shrink into the cable a bit, so your problem may come back unless you put on new RG6 ends.



SPACEMAKER said:


> I used to have some of the problems that some are reporting in this thread. Someone here suggested I gently wrench tighten the connections to see if it would help. Ever since I did that I have had very few lockups. I haven't had to do a RBR in several months.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Servo said:


> Those Sony VCRs were solid performers. I've got a friend who'll probably have to be buried with his the day it dies.


Tell him I've got a bunch left. :lol:



> One feature from my JVC that I dearly miss on the DVR is commercial skip. It would go back and mark commercials after recording and automatically skip them. Worked about 95% of the time, too. Now I have to sit here and push a button (lol).


Never really liked that feature. Don't remember which brand I tried, wasn't the JVC, but you had to wait for hours while the VCR figured out where the commercials were. The Sony's were mechanically crappy, but they put out the best PQ of any VCR I tried and I tried most of them. All I cared about was the PQ.

Rich


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## mattmill (Aug 10, 2002)

Voted D but for one of the two HR23-700s I have. One is working fine. The on in the livingroom is driving me crazy with the slow response to buttons. Both were reboted at the same times and no difference to the slow one. Both have somewhere in the neighborhood of 35%-45% free space.

matt


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Why not simply remap an existing soft button to be a dedicated slo-mo activator? I never use the blue button. This push-and-wait-and-wait-and-wait-then-maybe-slo-mo is insane. Designed by a housewife who hates TV sports.

I love this mantra that's been going on year after year: "This latest firmware upgrade will clear up all your input latency problems!" That's a good one.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Maruuk said:


> Why not simply remap an existing soft button to be a dedicated slo-mo activator? I never use the blue button. This push-and-wait-and-wait-and-wait-then-maybe-slo-mo is insane. Designed by a housewife who hates TV sports.
> 
> I love this mantra that's been going on year after year: "This latest firmware upgrade will clear up all your input latency problems!" That's a good one.


I use the blue button all the time. I record a bunch of movies and I keep some of them to watch again by going to the Playlist and hitting blue button and "keeping" the movie. Gotta have the blue button. Why not a numerical code? Didn't the TiVo Peanuts use a numerical code to get you to some functions?

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Maruuk said:


> I love this mantra that's been going on year after year: "This latest firmware upgrade will clear up all your input latency problems!" That's a good one.


Crazy isn't it! It is one step up... Maybe... There are a bunch of people that are in complete denial that any speed issues even exist!

Going back and looking through old posts it looks things used to be even worse. After this long I think we can assume that things will not speed up - at least until there are new-and-improved-models released. Hopefully models that don't start with HR2.....


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Crazy isn't it! It is one step up... Maybe... There are a bunch of people that are in complete denial that any speed issues even exist!
> 
> Going back and looking through old posts it looks things used to be even worse. After this long I think we can assume that things will not speed up - at least until there are new-and-improved-models released. Hopefully models that don't start with HR2.....


Seriously?

I have one HR2x that's very fast, one that's not as fast, and one that's down right slow(at times painfully so).

Now, if there exists three HR2x's in one location with three different levels of speed, then wouldn't it then hold that these people are not delusional or in denial but actually don't have any speed issues?

Or are you going to say that I'm delusional in that I can't possibly see a difference speed in my DVRs and it's not possible for one of them to be fast?

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I have one HR2x that's very fast, one that's not as fast, and one that's down right slow(at times painfully so).


The whole issue here boils down to using a term like "fast", which is purely subjective. Fast in the guide, fast changing channels, fast in the setup menu, fast getting a recording to start up...etc....

I have 2 HR20-700's that are approach 3 years old, and are both faster than ever before and faster than any other DVRs here. They are also faster than a neighbor's Dish 622 unit, and another neighbors Comcrap HD DVR. I use the term "faster" here in the context of guide speed, channel changing speed, and recording playback speed - the 3 main features I use.

My HR21-200 is also as fast as ever, but perhaps 5% "slower" in the same comparisons to my HR20-700 units for the same activities.

Mr H21-100 HD receiver is actually the newest HD unit here, but "slowest" of the bunch for the use of the guide and channel changes in comparison to all the other devices here - perhaps 10% slower than the HR21.

At this point, guide, menu, channel change, and playback speeds are to the point where they perhaps could improve another 5-10%, after which I could likely not tell much of a difference.

While everyone welcomes fast operations, and *some* other model DVRs and receivers currently may need a bit of a "speed boost" for some functions...the incremental improvements at this point won't make all that much more difference is the daily use here.

YMMV


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The whole issue here boils down to using a term like "fast", which is purely subjective. Fast in the guide, fast changing channels, fast in the setup menu, fast getting a recording to start up...etc....
> 
> I have 2 HR20-700's that are approach 3 years old, and are both faster than ever before and faster than any other DVRs here. They are also faster than a neighbor's Dish 622 unit, and another neighbors Comcrap HD DVR. I use the term "faster" here in the context of guide speed, channel changing speed, and recording playback speed - the 3 main features I use.
> 
> ...


That's exactly my point. Not all the receivers operate at the same speeds. There can be, in my experience, a pretty large differences in response times among the various different models.

And yes YMMV. 

Mike


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I have one HR2x that's very fast, one that's not as fast, and one that's down right slow(at times painfully so).
> 
> ...


Seriously!

By your comments above you are NOT delusional. You would be delusional if you decided to ignore the fact that there is a problem with speed while seeing it in your own equipment.

The same thing is true for me - there are people here that think I am delusional because I couldn't have 3 POS slow boxes!:lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I have 2 HR20-700's that are approach 3 years old, and are both faster than ever before and faster than any other DVRs here. They are also faster than a neighbor's Dish 622 unit, and another neighbors Comcrap HD DVR. I use the term "faster" here in the context of guide speed, channel changing speed, and recording playback speed - the 3 main features I use.


Wow - I've never heard anyone say their HR2X was faster than a Dish 622. I'll swap my HR22-100 for yours!

I have yet to see any HR2X that I would put even close to my 622 as far as speed of navigation in general. I don't do live-tv but I played around changing channels for a bit and sometimes it takes 8 or 9 seconds to change the channel with my HR22!

My HR222-100s make my old HD DirecTivo look fast. They even make the Comcrap DVR I used for about 2 minutes look a little better!

It would be interesting to see how they really compare. Like if you go from live TV on a certain channel to the guide, down 11 channels and select it, then go to your DVR list and play the 8th on the list skip to the end, delete it and go to a specific channel. With my HR22s it would take a long time and include a few corrections. I'd guess that some would be faster than others but it is hard to imagine that anyone's HR2X would keep up with a 622.

Maybe a test is in order!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - I've never heard anyone say their HR2X was faster than a Dish 622. I'll swap my HR22-100 for yours!
> 
> I have yet to see any HR2X that I would put even close to my 622 as far as speed of navigation in general.


Maybe its because my friend is on his 3rd replacement unit now in the past 1 1/2 years...


> With my HR22s it would take a long time and include a few corrections. I'd guess that some would be faster than others but it is hard to imagine that anyone's HR2X would keep up with a 622.


As stated earlier, there are some models that have not "caught up" in the code for the same speed levels....the HR22 is one of those.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Had to go with a C, mainly for the HR21. The HR20 probably deserves a B. With the slooooow interface on the 21, and the flaky media share, no A's here. Also, since the ToDo list has disappeared from the HR21, well, that's a bit of a problem.


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## tvjay (Sep 26, 2007)

I voted B but would like several things to improve,

1. Audio brrrrips and dropouts (during clear weather).
2. Slow gui.
3. Several shows have had the "This episode was not recorded because the program was no longer available. (13)" error.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

HR20-100, HR21-100, and HR21-100

All 3 get a "D" because they can't reliably respond to and execute a remote button push without a way to often occurrence of unacceptable delay (such as pause or skip happening 2 or more seconds after button was pushed), or misinterpretation of a single short button press as a "press-and-hold" of the button, or a multiple push of the button (keybounce). 

No matter how many other great DVR functions it has and how reliably they are performed, that doesn't make up for the situation of the DVR performing one of it's most basic of operations way worse than EVERY single piece of remote controlled electronic equipment that I have ever encountered in the last 20 years.

Fixing a situation where a device doesn't perform one of it's most basic functions properly should be a top priority. If the current technical team members don't know how to fix it, management needs to hire someone who does.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Some long standing issues:

1) When playing a series of shows from a playlist, there is no really good way to keeps one's place in the playlist. Finish one show and you go back to the top of the playlist, rather than the show you finished or the one "after" it. The playlist position should be "sticky", especially with a folder.

2) BACK from a search input screen should be back to type of search.

3) Searches should run off of a user list, not the ever-erroneous and over-inclusive "Channels I Get", which includes pr0n and foreign language programming. At the very least a language preference should be possible.

4) Along these lines, the "Adult Channel" disable should only disable adults-only channels, not every show with R or TV-MA ratings. There's a difference between "Damages" and the X rated channels. The current implementation is useless.


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## pcnerdman (Jul 6, 2008)

I have an HD10-250, connected to the same dish as an hr22-100. (I use 3 dishes to collect feeds for all my receivers, some are swm, some are older ). I have had these two DVR's setup to record the same programs. Over the last 3 months, only the HD10-250 has successfully recorded all the programs I have requested. So, if a DVR misses recordings, I think it should get an F. For Failing to do it's job. The HD10-250 was enhanced with a large Hard Drive and networked, so the functions are similar. The remote control on the HD10-250 responds instantly to the press of button. The HR22 is hit and miss, sometimes responding after several button presses. The only reason the HR22 is in the room is to record the SyFy channel in HD. (often, we have to switch to the old standby to finish a recording) ALL of the D TV recorders in the house, experience dozens of glitches over any given week, small glitches, but maddening. So many glitches, that the wife and kids have stopped using their DVR machines. They rely on an XBOX or a computer and just don't bother wrestling the DirectV "junk" my hobby compels me to accumulate. (I keep trying to fix problems, like 50 limit, or missed recordings, etc). I went so far as to provide redundant receivers, but if a recording stops in mid play, user interest wains. The backup machine is ignored and family members head to their computers for hulu, facebook, myspace, youtube, netflix, amazon or even tune into an HD radio station broadcasting over the internet. There are 7 teenagers in my house, they have nearly given up Watching TV. They spend hours and hours playing interactive, trouble free, games on the networked xbox. They even use the Xbox to rent movies from netflix. It is "Easier" for them than fighting DTV. I guess life changes. And there is less and less good programing to record so who knows, my family has stopped complaining about D-TV because they don't care anymore. However, if my network goes down, I'm hounded by every member of the family. This is a real change from the "old" days when fast forwarding through a commercial was "Way Cool". The 60" TV set in the living room is gaining a new life, as a computer monitor.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

cartrivision said:


> HR20-100, HR21-100, and HR21-100
> 
> All 3 get a "D" because they can't reliably respond to and execute a remote button push without a way to often occurrence of unacceptable delay (such as pause or skip happening 2 or more seconds after button was pushed), or misinterpretation of a single short button press as a "press-and-hold" of the button, or a multiple push of the button (keybounce).


That is not at all relfective of the 3 HD DVR experience here - no such problems here for a long, long time.

I also use a Universal remote with one of the 3 units, and again, not any such (2 second long) delay of those specific commands on that unit either.

Have you reported those as formal reports in the corresponding device and firmware release "issues" threads, using the report function in the misc menu?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Have you reported those as formal reports in the corresponding device and firmware release "issues" threads, using the report function in the misc menu?


:lol:That's a good one! I think with the 100's of complaints over years here that DirecTV is completely aware of the problem. Maybe DirecTV should look at your equipment so they can figure out how to repeat the obvious success they have had in your case.

I just picked up my remote and hit 3 3 7 to go to VH1C and the reciever changed to channel 3. This happens about 80% of the time - I have to hit a number and wait until the banner comes up before hitting anything else. This kind of delay is very common throughout the setup. Many times when I hit guide and wait - nothing happens to I hit guide again - it finally reacts and I get the 'filter guide' screen because it picked up both buttons.

This isn't just with mine or the HR22 - common problem it seems by the number of comlpaints... If you want to see how this works just go to Best Buy and have them demo DirecTV for you!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> :lol:That's a good one! I think with the 100's of complaints over years here that DirecTV is completely aware of the problem. Maybe DirecTV should look at your equipment so they can figure out how to repeat the obvious success they have had in your case.
> 
> I just picked up my remote and hit 3 3 7 to go to VH1C and the reciever changed to channel 3. This happens about 80% of the time - I have to hit a number and wait until the banner comes up before hitting anything else. This kind of delay is very common throughout the setup. Many times when I hit guide and wait - nothing happens to I hit guide again - it finally reacts and I get the 'filter guide' screen because it picked up both buttons.
> 
> This isn't just with mine or the HR22 - common problem it seems by the number of comlpaints... If you want to see how this works just go to Best Buy and have them demo DirecTV for you!


What do ya mean "That's a good one"?

It's not just about just complaining. Submitting the diagnostic report and listing the report number in the issues thread allows DirecTV to pull that report, as well as all the others, and track down the problem.

Those reports are very important to the process. If you're going to complain, why not make it useful. Be part of the process; otherwise you're just whining.

Mike


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## MLBurks (Dec 16, 2005)

Mike Greer said:


> I just picked up my remote and hit 3 3 7 to go to VH1C and the reciever changed to channel 3. This happens about 80% of the time - I have to hit a number and wait until the banner comes up before hitting anything else. This kind of delay is very common throughout the setup. Many times when I hit guide and wait - nothing happens to I hit guide again - it finally reacts and I get the 'filter guide' screen because it picked up both buttons.


That happens to me all of the time. VERY FRUSTRATING!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> What do ya mean "That's a good one"?
> 
> It's not just about just complaining. Submitting the diagnostic report and listing the report number in the issues thread allows DirecTV to pull that report, as well as all the others, and track down the problem.
> 
> ...


That's all he's done in every thread he's posted in. You tell me, knowing I don't like any HR that ends in 100, how you can get three new 22s and have the identical problems in each one and blame the 22s? That makes no sense at all. What are the odds on getting three units of any model and having the same problems with each one?

And consider this. I actually bought a 22, couldn't get anything else quickly and had no other options. It worked properly for three weeks and then became buggy, but at no point was it ever slow in any way. It's remote response in RF was far superior to any 21 that I have.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> :lol:That's a good one! I think with the 100's of complaints over years here that DirecTV is completely aware of the problem.


Hundreds of complaints in the context of Millions of users may not get the kind of attention you seem to infer.

That is why reporting it *where those who review these things regularly can see them* is a more prudent and recommended approach.

That is also why the issues threads were created - to properly report them and also get those issues seen.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> What do ya mean "That's a good one"?
> 
> It's not just about just complaining. Submitting the diagnostic report and listing the report number in the issues thread allows DirecTV to pull that report, as well as all the others, and track down the problem.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on problems that are not known. If DirecTV doesn't know about this particular problem then they don't use their own equipment.



MLBurks said:


> That happens to me all of the time. VERY FRUSTRATING!


Exactly! Maybe DirecTV should pick up a remote and hit 3 3 7 and see what they get.



rich584 said:


> That's all he's done in every thread he's posted in. You tell me, knowing I don't like any HR that ends in 100, how you can get three new 22s and have the identical problems in each one and blame the 22s? That makes no sense at all. What are the odds on getting three units of any model and having the same problems with each one?
> 
> And consider this. I actually bought a 22, couldn't get anything else quickly and had no other options. It worked properly for three weeks and then became buggy, but at no point was it ever slow in any way. It's remote response in RF was far superior to any 21 that I have.
> 
> Rich


I have admitted that I ***** a lot. I wish others could admit they have rose colored classes!

You keep going back to the same thing - like I am the only one with 'Slow' HR22s. I may have specific issues (like the network) that make mine even slower - I am not claiming, nor have I ever claimed, to have 3 broken HR22s. It is more along the line that all HR2x receivers are 'broken' as in they are freakin' slow!

The general 'slow' problem is a personal thing. I know you and a couple of others have amazing speed in your receivers but in my (and a boat load of other's) opinion EVERY HR2X is generally slow.

In another thread you said "Are they as fast as my SD TiVos were? I think they are pretty close."

To me that suggests that your glorious HRs are as slow as everyone's and that you just don't notice or care (and I'm good with that) or that you are on the BOD of DirecTV

The SD Tivos are also 'slow' by my definition - subjective it is!

I'm happy that you're happy.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hundreds of complaints in the context of Millions of users may not get the kind of attention you seem to infer.
> 
> That is why reporting it *where those who review these things regularly can see them* is a more prudent and recommended approach.
> 
> That is also why the issues threads were created - to properly report them and also get those issues seen.


Let's be honest here. It is hundreds of complaints from thousands of users. Only 327 have voted in the poll - there are not millions of users here.

I'll give you that speed is subjective but the usability problems caused by key bounce and delays when using the remote are not subjective. It is a wide spread problem that DirecTV is either aware of or they don't use their own equipment. If they don't have a receiver they can use I'll buy them one or they can go down to Best Buy and check it out.

Take a look at the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread. How many people have commented on having trouble with speed and remote problems? Rather large percentage don't you think? Take my posts out if you'd like but I am not the sole person claiming the HR2x boxes are slow.

Lets remember this is not life and death - it is TV people! If this kept me up at night I'd pay my termination fee, give up Sunday Ticket and move on. On the other hand I pay DirecTV good money and I expect them to deliver.


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree with you on problems that are not known. If DirecTV doesn't know about this particular problem then they don't use their own equipment.
> 
> Exactly! Maybe DirecTV should pick up a remote and hit 3 3 7 and see what they get.
> 
> ...


One problem with your analysis of the percentages is that this forum probably doesn't accurately reflect the general population of the more than 16 million subscribers. The people on this forum are probably more tech oriented; they either are seeking more information (are experiencing problems) or are tech geeks at their core. You have a few hundred complaints, but one reason for the high number of complaints is that people with complaints come here to complain!

I'm not saying your boxes aren't slow...I'm not even saying that it isn't an issue that should be addressed. However, to make a general statement that all HR2-series boxes are slow or are not capable devices, based solely on the inputs on this forum is to stretch the limits of logic and fact-based decision making.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

mobandit said:


> One problem with your analysis of the percentages is that this forum probably doesn't accurately reflect the general population of the more than 16 million subscribers. The people on this forum are probably more tech oriented; they either are seeking more information (are experiencing problems) or are tech geeks at their core. You have a few hundred complaints, but one reason for the high number of complaints is that people with complaints come here to complain!
> 
> ...


That cuts both ways. I have my own "canaries in the coal mine". 5 friends who have never visited this site and who I had to show how to set up 30 second skip on their HR2xs. 3 of the 5 don't like the HR2x, with some having multiple freezes, reboots, etc. They've never complained here because they've never visited here. There is truth to the fact someone with a problem may find their way here to try to solve it, so there may be some folks here who "complain".

But there are folks out there who are having problems you aren't hearing about on this site.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Let's be honest here. It is hundreds of complaints from thousands of users. Only 327 have voted in the poll - there are not millions of users here.


Let's be honest here....no one has a solid footing on how significant a problem this really is or is not to the main DirecTV customer base. 

You seem to miss the main point -its not just about your specific "issue".

There's a bigger picture than just a 327 count poll.

Reporting a problem in the right issues thread, under the right firmware and device, and containing a report number...is the only viable means to assure that the "issue" will be seen by those who can actually do something about it.

Within that CE program established framework, seeing that same problem repeatedly reported by multiple users will add support to the need for a solution. That process has worked on numerous occasions for other "issues".

Whereas if anyone just whines about it, endless repeats statements, or posts something about it all over the place in other threads... it will most likely result in nothing.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I just saw this thread and I assume that this is a data point in time. So I suppose I need to give my impressions, most everything works, but it is annoyingly slow to work on my day-to-day functions, for which I gave the unit's a D overall, due to the lockups I experience with MediaShare, that area is a failure (F for those counting).


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree with you on problems that are not known. If DirecTV doesn't know about this particular problem then they don't use their own equipment.


 It has nothing to do with whether or not it's a know issue. The more people who send the diagnostic reports and post the report numbers, the easier it is for DirecTV to figure it out. That goes for any issue BTW.

It's also about the circumstances of the problem. I know when my HR21-100 sit's for a while unused (like over night) it's slower for the first few button presses then it will be after that.

As you can see, just because it's slow doesn't provide any useful info to figure out the problem. However, the circumstances and the diagnostic reports do. Therefore, it's important to report an issue even if it's already been reported. 

BTW, I don't have rose colored glasses. I have realistic expectations as what it takes to find and fix these problems. You on the other hand, seem to think anyone who says their receiver is fast is in denial; your words not mine. Further, your assertion that "all HR2x receivers are 'broken' as in they are freakin' slow" is just plain wrong. Most, if not all, the HR20-700s are very fast. Mine responds immediately to nearly all button presses. My HR23-700 is also pretty fast. As you can see it is prevalent throughout the -100s and less so with -700s & -200s.

And with that, I'll stay out of this discussion to keep the thread moving on topic. :grin:

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> And with that, I'll stay out of this discussion to keep the thread moving on topic. :grin:
> 
> Mike


Me too, it's senseless arguing with him. Wish he lived near me, I'd like him to see just how fast mine are, but I'm sure I'm just an anomaly. :lol:

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Me too, it's senseless arguing with him. Wish he lived near me, I'd like him to see just how fast mine are, but I'm sure I'm just an anomaly. :lol:
> 
> Rich


I'm outta here with you guys...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Your wasting your time dude.
If the Poll had shown 99% of people giving it an "A" and you came here and complained they would have said "Look at the Poll, your wrong".
Since the Poll is not showing a high percentage of "A"'s they now say the sampling is to small, the Poll reflects only whinners etc etc. You just can't win.

Does the Term See no Evil Hear No Evil sound about right.



Mike Greer said:


> :lol:That's a good one! I think with the 100's of complaints over years here that DirecTV is completely aware of the problem. Maybe DirecTV should look at your equipment so they can figure out how to repeat the obvious success they have had in your case.
> 
> I just picked up my remote and hit 3 3 7 to go to VH1C and the reciever changed to channel 3. This happens about 80% of the time - I have to hit a number and wait until the banner comes up before hitting anything else. This kind of delay is very common throughout the setup. Many times when I hit guide and wait - nothing happens to I hit guide again - it finally reacts and I get the 'filter guide' screen because it picked up both buttons.
> 
> This isn't just with mine or the HR22 - common problem it seems by the number of comlpaints... If you want to see how this works just go to Best Buy and have them demo DirecTV for you!


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

This would be a great idea if the process always moved forward, but the truth is that every release seems to fix one problem and then create a new one. You guys could be doing this for another 10 years and it still might not be perfect!



MicroBeta said:


> What do ya mean "That's a good one"?
> 
> It's not just about just complaining. Submitting the diagnostic report and listing the report number in the issues thread allows DirecTV to pull that report, as well as all the others, and track down the problem.
> 
> ...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Let me see if I can put this thread out of its misery, by just pointing out one thing.

The Poll is totally flawed, it was accidentally created with a Flaw and that flaw was that it includes CE people adding there vote to the total even though they are not expressing an opinion.

If one takes out the votes that are not grading the DVR the results as of Aug 05 2009 are as follows

A = 21.3%
B = 40.7%
C = 19.3%
D = 13.3%
F = 5.2%

And not the current values of

A = 15.9%
B= 28.94%
C = 13.75%
D = 9.46%
F = 3.7%

Of course one could argue that almost all the CE people who voted would most likely put Down an “A”.  which would then skew the results once again.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Your wasting your time dude.
> If the Poll had shown 99% of people giving it an "A" and you came here and complained they would have said "Look at the Poll, your wrong".
> Since the Poll is not showing a high percentage of "A"'s they now say the sampling is to small, the Poll reflects only whinners etc etc. You just can't win.
> 
> Does the Term See no Evil Hear No Evil sound about right.


Ok, wait just one second. Show me a post that says the results are invalid because the sample size is too small. You can't because there isn't one. :nono2:

I happen to agree that there are some HR2x-100s that have speed issues. I have one so I know it is an issue. Even so, based on my overall experience, had I voted it would have been a B. Which I notice is what you voted...of course, you then it followed by a demeaning comment about those that voted A.

Nobody is saying those of us with speed problems are in the minority. Quite the opposite; what I have a problem with is demeaning those who voted A.

AAMOF, I'll go so far as to say that most of the controversial posts in this thread are a direct result of the posts by you and Mike starting right in how people are voting on page one of this thread; about "absolutely ridiculous" their votes are. You have no room to talk about how people have responded to those posts. Then you have the gall to complain about those of us who think you shouldn't put people down for the opinions.

The poll is fine the way it is. If you ignore the CEer's you have a perfectly valid set of info. It shows that the over whelming majority of voters DON'T think it gets and A. Of those that didn't vote A nearly half give it a C or less. If you can count and leave out the CEer's, tell me how it's not representative. Further, you have no business saying the CEer's skewed the poll and voted A.

Mike


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

A very generous "D" due to the agonizing slowness, which is the only thing that in the 10+ years I have spent as a D* client has come even close to having me contemplate a migration to The Dark Side (E*).

Fix the slowness and I can tolerate any other issue I have encountered and the units become instant "B+" boxes.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

I've been through 5 of the HR-XX machines now and they all had brutally slow/ no-response to input. Very consistent from machine to machine. And it hasn't changed one whit over all the firmware DLs. Not a bit. Sometimes you hit a button and you'll get a relatively quick and accurate response (though never instant). Other times depending on what process you're activating the response can be a second or two up to 10 seconds. And sometimes no response at all. This leads to repeated button pushes thinking nothing's happening, and then sometimes those subsequent inputs will suddenly all pile up and freak out the machine.

A good example is the PAUSE/STEP ADVANCE which I'm forced to use for sports slo-mo since we basically have no real Slo-Mo capability at all. I freeze on Tiger's putt. I begin to step advance to follow it frame-by-frame. Fine. Suddenly, I mysteriously jump to either the next hash mark and burst into motion video, revealing who won the tournament and ruining my afternoon, or it jumps to the end of the entire program and bursts into live video revealing who won the tournament and ruining my afternoon.

Needless to say, this HR-JUNK has ruined many afternoons due to its sloppy and incompetent design and execution.

Bottom line: the hardware/software is a complete joke. Never should have been shipped in this condition. There ought to be a class action suit instituted against Directv to refund our money for this landfill-quality product.

My gold standard is of course the 3 Tivo boxes I've owned. Instant response. Dedicated slo-mo, you hit a button, BANG. It's done. Now. No lag, no dead response, INSTANT RESULT EVERYTIME.

But D* owners wouldn't know about that sort of thing. They've been slow frog-boiled into accepting this condition as normal. But I've got a way to make it all okay. They just need to change their name to *Indirectv*. Truth in advertising.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Maruuk said:


> I've been through 5 of the HR-XX machines now and they all had brutally slow/ no-response to input. Very consistent from machine to machine. And it hasn't changed one whit over all the firmware DLs. Not a bit. Sometimes you hit a button and you'll get a relatively quick and accurate response (though never instant). Other times depending on what process you're activating the response can be a second or two up to 10 seconds. And sometimes no response at all. This leads to repeated button pushes thinking nothing's happening, and then sometimes those subsequent inputs will suddenly all pile up and freak out the machine.
> 
> A good example is the PAUSE/STEP ADVANCE which I'm forced to use for sports slo-mo since we basically have no real Slo-Mo capability at all. I freeze on Tiger's putt. I begin to step advance to follow it frame-by-frame. Fine. Suddenly, I mysteriously jump to either the next hash mark and burst into motion video, revealing who won the tournament and ruining my afternoon, or it jumps to the end of the entire program and bursts into live video revealing who won the tournament and ruining my afternoon.
> 
> ...


I don't know about Junk and class action  but I do agree with some of this.

You bring up the variable slow response time. That's always annoyed and intrigued me. It's as if it caches some code and it has to look for it before it can execute and then once it's "awake" it responds relatively quickly (as compared to it's initial response but still not as fast as it should).

I do miss slo-mo. I have it programmed into my universal and it works almost always(better the OEM remote) but it's still hit or miss on catching what you want.

My TiVo's were never as fast as yours seem to have been. There were some functions (e.g. Season Pass) that were down right glacial&#8230;I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

:lol::lol: Oh you are sooo funny.

*First of all take a look at this post on the same page. Looks to me like he's saying that what is on the forum/Poll does not represent the general population of 16 million subscribers *



> One problem with your analysis of the percentages is that this forum probably doesn't accurately reflect the general population of the more than 16 million subscribers. The people on this forum are probably more tech oriented; they either are seeking more information (are experiencing problems) or are tech geeks at their core. You have a few hundred complaints, but one reason for the high number of complaints is that people with complaints come here to complain!
> 
> I'm not saying your boxes aren't slow...I'm not even saying that it isn't an issue that should be addressed. However, to make a general statement that all HR2-series boxes are slow or are not capable devices, based solely on the inputs on this forum is to stretch the limits of logic and fact-based decision making.


*We made that statement because it seemed like people did not realize that an "A" is a representation of perfection! If you think as you said that the unit is indeed slow then it is not perfect Add into that Briiips, remote freezes and incomplete recordings and it's far from perfect. I think my "B" grade was very generous, most posters since mine have been giving it C and D's.

Lastly and most humorously is the fact that you say "The poll is fine the way it is. If you ignore the CEer's you have a perfectly valid set of info." then you say "If you can count and leave out the CEer's, tell me how it's not representative."

Now which is it??????
The CE people voting in the Poll does change the Percentages and you admit that; yet you say the Poll is "Fine the way it is" Hello,,, if anybody looks at the numbers they are getting wrong info :nono::nono:

Lastly:
I did not say that the CE people voted "A" and skewed the results, you need to go back and read what I said before you make accusations .*



MicroBeta said:


> Ok, wait just one second. Show me a post that says the results are invalid because the sample size is too small. You can't because there isn't one. :nono2:
> 
> I happen to agree that there are some HR2x-100s that have speed issues. I have one so I know it is an issue. Even so, based on my overall experience, had I voted it would have been a B. Which I notice is what you voted...of course, you then it followed by a demeaning comment about those that voted A.
> 
> ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> We made that statement because it seemed like people did not realize that an "A" is a representation of perfection! If you think as you said that the unit is indeed slow then it is not perfect Add into that Briiips, remote freezes and incomplete recordings and it's far from perfect. I think my "B" grade was very generous, most posters since mine have been giving it C and D's.


This is just my opinion but in my estimation, since there is not such thing as perfection, it would seem that voting A would not mean it's perfect but merely as good as can reasonable be expected from this kind of device. Actually, I'm not sure I've every had a receiver/DVR that I would rate an A but that's another story. :grin:



> Lastly and most humorously is the fact that you say "The poll is fine the way it is. If you ignore the CEer's you have a perfectly valid set of info." then you say "If you can count and leave out the CEer's, tell me how it's not representative."
> 
> Now which is it??????
> The CE people voting in the Poll does change the Percentages and you admit that yet you say the Poll is "Fine the way it is" Hello,,, if anybody looks at the numbers they are getting wrong info :nono::nono:


If you figure the percentages minus the CEer's, as you already did in another post, then those numbers are most likely representative of how everyone feels about their HR2x's so if you &#8230;leave out the CEer's, the poll is just fine.



> *Lastly:
> I did not say that the CE people voted "A" and skewed the results, you need to go back and read what I said before you make accusations .*


Sorry, I thought that's what you said here&#8230;


dreadlk said:


> <snip>
> 
> Of course one could argue that almost all the CE people who voted would most likely put Down an "A".  which would then skew the results once again.


I don't know but it sounds like your saying that those CE people voted would most likely have voted A, skewing the results&#8230;.something that's just plain inflammatory and for which you have no basis. But, since you never posted that&#8230;.

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

The words "Most Likely" have a completely different meaning to "They have or They Will"

In any case why do you think the Mods asked the CErs not to Grade the DVR?



MicroBeta said:


> Sorry, I thought that's what you said here&#8230;I don't know but it sounds like your saying that those CE people voted would most likely have voted A, skewing the results&#8230;.something that's just plain inflammatory and for which you have no basis. But, since you never posted that&#8230;.
> 
> Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> The words "Most Likely" have a completely different meaning to "They have or They Will"
> 
> In any case why do you think the Mods asked the CErs not to Grade the DVR?


You said...

"Of course one could argue that almost all the CE people who voted would most likely put Down an "A". "​
This implies that you can make a cogent argument that CEer's voted where they shouldn't and it's most likely "A". So which is it? Can you make a cogent argument as you implied or were you just being contrary for real reason?

It's a poll about the National Release. Those on CE versions can't speak to how their receivers operate on the NR firmware.

I thought that was obvious...unless you know of another reason that makes sense.

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I will agree, that the level of perfection that is given to an "A" is subject to interpretation, but the problems like Slowness, Briiips and missed recordings are just too much IMHO to ever rank this thing with an "A" no matter how low you set the standard, but that's just my opinion.

On the Flip side I think some people are just being completely ridiculous in giving it an "F" and I really don't see it as a "D" either. While some may have defective units that they feel merit that ranking, they should realize by reading around the forum that their problems are unique. Waiting 30 seconds for a remote response or dozens of missed recordings could never be acceptable to any company that wants to survive, IOW they would never release something that bad.



MicroBeta said:


> This is just my opinion but in my estimation, since there is not such thing as perfection, it would seem that voting A would not mean it's perfect but merely as good as can reasonable be expected from this kind of device. Actually, I'm not sure I've every had a receiver/DVR that I would rate an A but that's another story. :grin:
> Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Do you really think that most CE'rs have just one DVR and are only using the CE version??

If it was an NR problem it would sound logical to me that Doug would have stated that if your running ONLY the CE firmware don't participate, instead of asking all CE people not to grade the NR firmware?

Lastly I think your missing the whole point which is why I told you to read my post again. I am not saying that CE people voted "A" in this Poll, I am saying that if they had asked them to vote MOST LIKELY Most of them would vote "A". 
This is nothing new, most of the CE people have invested blood sweat and tears in these DVR's and they don't like people bashing them. That's made abundantly clear to me from reading thousands of posts and seeing where MOST of the CE'rs stand.



MicroBeta said:


> You said...
> 
> "Of course one could argue that almost all the CE people who voted would most likely put Down an "A". "​
> This implies that you can make a cogent argument that CEer's voted where they shouldn't and it's most likely "A". So which is it? Can you make a cogent argument as you implied or were you just being contrary for real reason?
> ...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I know what you mean about the Dark Side:lol:
Charlie own personality coupled with E* lack of caring about picture quality have kept me with D* for years. I just can't see myself ever putting a dollar into his hands.



zkc16 said:


> A very generous "D" due to the agonizing slowness, which is the only thing that in the 10+ years I have spent as a D* client has come even close to having me contemplate a migration to The Dark Side (E*).
> 
> Fix the slowness and I can tolerate any other issue I have encountered and the units become instant "B+" boxes.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Let me see if I can put this thread out of its misery, by just pointing out one thing.
> 
> The Poll is totally flawed, it was accidentally created with a Flaw and that flaw was that it includes CE people adding there vote to the total even though they are not expressing an opinion.
> 
> ...


Why argue the results of the poll .. Pull out the CE numbers, that's exactly what I'd do and is the right thing to do. Statistically, the results are very likely close the the numbers you have represented .. basically, the HR2x gets a 'B' ..

The CE'rs were asked to not vote because the current CE is far removed from the current national release so the results would introduce real skew because it's based on a different firmware.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> I don't know about Junk and class action  but I do agree with some of this.
> 
> You bring up the variable slow response time. That's always annoyed and intrigued me. It's as if it caches some code and it has to look for it before it can execute and then once it's "awake" it responds relatively quickly (as compared to it's initial response but still not as fast as it should).
> 
> ...


The Season Pass is the only ''slow'' thing I remember about my SD TiVos. The 30 second skip was so fast that when I started watching the HRs and all we had was the 30 second slip, I was amazed at how much info I had been missing. I missed the first season of "The Shield" because of that 30 second skip. Aside from that, I think my HRs are just as fast as the SD TiVos were.

But that Season Pass was so slow it was hard to believe. I gather you're talking about changing the order of the Season Pass. I was stunned by how fast the HRs do that same thing with the Priority list.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk;2176801[B said:


> We made that statement because it seemed like people did not realize that an "A" is a representation of perfection!


I voted an "A". To me, "A" is hardly perfection. Go back in time and think of the grades you got in school. An "A" was in a range from 100% to 90% and that leaves eleven degrees between 100 and 90. I get briips. I have no other problems except for the 23 with the RF mode problem. And, I fear that is a hardware problem, hope I'm wrong, but...

If the HRs were perfect, we wouldn't be having this argument. But, over the years they have gone from being horrible to dependable, from buggy to the occasional briip. I've probably had one of the worst experiences with HRs that anyone has since the fall of '06. I haven't let that poison my view of the HRs now.

So, I'll give it an "A" and call the grade specifically 95%. I would have been amazed if I had gotten 95s when I was in school.

Rich


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## YCT (Mar 16, 2008)

I went with a "C." I am quite pleased with my HR20 but I still use two series 2 TIVOs hooked to older receivers and love them. I especially enjoy copying season pass directly to my computer and burning DVDs to watch later. But, the TIVOs don't do HD so I will continue to use both. I am quite pleased with my overall results.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> If it was an NR problem it would sound logical to me that Doug would have stated that if your running ONLY the CE firmware don't participate, instead of asking all CE people not to grade the NR firmware?


Since it seems to need clarification .. I was hoping to have folks vote on the NR firmware only .. regardless of classification. And yeah, the CE'rs that are active are often all-in.



> Lastly I think your missing the whole point which is why I told you to read my post again. I am not saying that CE people voted "A" in this Poll, I am saying that if they had asked them to vote MOST LIKELY Most of them would vote "A".
> This is nothing new, most of the CE people have invested blood sweat and tears in these DVR's and they don't like people bashing them. That's made abundantly clear to me from reading thousands of posts and seeing where MOST of the CE'rs stand.


Let's not go here, OK. The balance in the CE area is not really that different than it is here. There are a few CE'rs who have voted and the percentages are not at all what you are attempting to decree as fact. In other words .. Just because you say it .. does not make it true.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Why must people make such a big deal over the 'A - F' lettering .. it's pretty much the same has having 5 bubbles to pick from with "Best" on the left and "Worst" on the right .. you pick the one that you think is most accurate.

People are different and an 'A' to me may be a 'C' to someone else. The poll is about as representative as we can get and is a pretty good indicator of the pulse of dbstalk.com if nothing else.

Sorry folks .. it's looking like this thing is a 'B' .. You have to decide whether or not you are happy or disappointed by that fact, but there it is staring you in the face. It's neither an 'F' or an 'A' .. It's a 'B' .. I'll leave the poll open, but it is unlikely that the results will be much different regardless of how many additional votes are received.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> People are different and an 'A' to me may be a 'C' to someone else. The poll is about as representative as we can get and is a pretty good indicator of the pulse of dbstalk.com if nothing else.
> 
> Sorry folks .. it's looking like this thing is a 'B' .. You have to decide whether or not you are happy or disappointed by that fact, but there it is staring you in the face.


A "B" by any other name is indeed still a "B". 

...and its similar to past such polls, also averaging a "B", which would also seem to validate consistency...a good thing.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I think this poll is as good as any online poll that doesn't qualify the question nor the people allowed to respond. It isn't scientific, but it can give indications.

The most damning indication in the results are that approx 25% of HR users don't seem happy with the equipment. That is a horrible result for Direct in a product that is now about 4 years in the making and improving. That is a number you expect in an open Beta product cycle, not a shipping product, and it really doesn't matter what the problems are, it is the perception they are creating.

And it doesn't matter if it is the HRs hardware design, the software, the install, the wire, the connectors or any other reason. The problem is big and needs addressing and correction. If you see it any other way, you are just living on a cloud.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Slowness (in GUIDE/MENU navigation and some key presses) is the biggest issue at the moment. I expect to see improvement in these areas in the next few weeks. Perceptions are hard to go away though and I'm certain a few of the folks posting here will not change their mind regardless ..


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Slowness (in GUIDE/MENU navigation and some key presses) is the biggest issue at the moment. I expect to see improvement in these areas in the next few weeks. Perceptions are hard to go away though and I'm certain a few of the folks posting here will not change their mind regardless ..


I hope that is true, but in other sources I read, the CE that seems to be the fix isn't getting all that glowing reports. The reality is that at 4 years, the slowness and remote response issue I and others are reporting, shouldn't be an issue at all. We ought to have other things to complain about! 

I hope that the NR does fix it, and if it does, I think I'm man enough to say so too.

In the meantime, I have Dish with the 722k doing the bulk of my TV support and Direct for a couple of locals in HD and T101. It works and never misses a recording and even though it is yet another remote, it isn't all that inconvenient, and I can afford it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Slowness (in GUIDE/MENU navigation and some key presses) is the biggest issue at the moment. I expect to see improvement in these areas in the next few weeks. Perceptions are hard to go away though and I'm certain a few of the folks posting here will not change their mind regardless ..


Doug, contrary to what some may think here, I would have a 'slap on the back' for DirecTV - along with a sincere 'thank you' - if they could make the HR boxes respond quickly and reliably.

I hope you're right about a fix coming!

Oh, and you had better look out! There are a few people here that don't think there are speed issues to address - they just may think you're crazy with posts like that!:hurah:


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I had an accounting prof in college who thought that an "A" meant the student was as good in the subject as the prof. Since he obviously didn't think this was possible, he didn't give out any A's. I was pretty mad at the time.

I voted "B" but not because I thought an "A" meant perfect. There were times in the past 2 1/2 years when my grade would have been lower.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Maybe we'll just grade this on a curve...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Lets not forget the CNet incident
After one person posted about its bad reviews / user ratings the CE'rs jumped into the post rather upset and then some how dozens of glowing 5 star reviews started to appear on CNet.

Now considering that happened about 8 or so months ago (not 100% sure) but it was awhile back, it's interesting that Firmware from 8 months ago was considered 5 Star by so many people yet they admit that the current firmware is slow and Briiipy.

BTW I can remember almost 2 years ago when SOME CE'rs where saying the firmware was "Great" no missed recordings or problems :sure:

I am not knocking these guys I appreciate there efforts, but as I said before, people do not like it when something they helped to build is being criticized and most people who are team players tend to take the completely opposite position of the persons who are doing the criticism.



Doug Brott said:


> Let's not go here, OK. The balance in the CE area is not really that different than it is here. There are a few CE'rs who have voted and the percentages are not at all what you are attempting to decree as fact. In other words .. Just because you say it .. does not make it true.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

When I was in college doing Electronic Engineering I had a few professors that made it very clear at the start, 
That it was doubtful that anybody will be getting an "A". They said an "A" is for perfection, every answer must be correct and precise.
I still remember one professor saying, "If you build a Launch computer for the Space shuttle and you get it 99% right, it's still going to blow up!" (This guy use to work for NASA in the 70's)

At the end of that semester we had one guy who Cried when he got a "B", because it had ruined his 4.0 average, only one person got an "A" in a class of about 40 students.



billsharpe said:


> I had an accounting prof in college who thought that an "A" meant the student was as good in the subject as the prof. Since he obviously didn't think this was possible, he didn't give out any A's. I was pretty mad at the time.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Lets not forget the CNet incident
> After one person posted about its bad reviews / user ratings the CE'rs jumped into the post rather upset and then some how dozens of glowing 5 star reviews started to appear on CNet.
> 
> Now considering that happened about 8 or so months ago (not 100% sure) but it was awhile back, it's interesting that Firmware from 8 months ago was considered 5 Star by so many people yet they admit that the current firmware is slow and Briiipy.
> ...


Do you have a point because I'm missing it? 

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Now considering that happened about 8 or so months ago (not 100% sure) but it was awhile back, it's interesting that Firmware from 8 months ago was considered 5 Star by so many people yet they admit that the current firmware is slow and Briiipy.
> 
> BTW I can remember almost 2 years ago when SOME CE'rs where saying the firmware was "Great" no missed recordings or problems :sure:


It's great to say things, I know .. but again, just because you say it .. does not make it true. A few links to examples of what you are suggesting would be very prudent here.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> When I was in college doing Electronic Engineering I had a few professors that made it very clear at the start,
> That it was doubtful that anybody will be getting an "A". They said an "A" is for perfection, every answer must be correct and precise.
> I still remember one professor saying, "If you build a Launch computer for the Space shuttle and you get it 99% right, it's still going to blow up!" (This guy use to work for NASA in the 70's)
> 
> At the end of that semester we had one guy who Cried when he got a "B", because it had ruined his 4.0 average, only one person got an "A" in a class of about 40 students.


OK .. but since this has nothing to do with "How is your HR2x performing" .. let's get :backtotop


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> It's great to say things, I know .. but again, just because you say it .. does not make it true. A few links to examples of what you are suggesting would be very prudent here.


Doug you asked, so I am supplying, I hate to even post this because I truly understand why some people are so passionate and positive about this DVR and I really truly respect You, Tom and Stuart.
I am just making a point that people who are very close to the unit tend to always say its fine, perfect or working great. Especially when someone calls it a POS! All you need to do is search the forum with the Keyword POS and go back as far as you can and some people will still be telling you its great.
Yet Its 2 years later and something like 25+ updates and its still a work in progress.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90803&highlight=POS
Note replies from:
Stuart*
Hutchinshouse

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88142&highlight=POS
Note replies from:
Hasan*
KCCardsfan

*A Statement From KenS on 23 May 2007* (A guy who seems to think like me on certain issues)

"It's amazing how many reports of the HR20 being perfect we read even though D keeps pumping out software releases with fixes in them. I guess the fixes are just for imaginary items.
If the previous poster was correct about 15 nationally released patches since release that's a whole lot of "perfect" that had to be fixed."

Bonscott87* on the same day, same thread in reply

"I've been trying to get some people to realize this for a while. If at this point your HR20 is still causing you massive issues, it's most likely a bad box, get it replaced. DirecTV will FedEx you one in 2 days. Why keep banging your head on the wall when a solution may be just 2-3 short days away. "

*My Take:
While this may be true in Aug 2009, two years ago my HR20-100 was giving me Major problems and about 12 months later in 2008 almost 70% of them dissapeared after just one update, so IMO that was not a valid statement in May 2007"*

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92269&highlight=POS

Stuart 
17 July 2007

"At this point if you're looking for a solid HD DVR, look no further. Most of the complaints I hear these days are about "extra features" like Media Sharing. "

Drew2K July 2007
"Yes - Ready for primetime. And morning talk shows. And mid-day soaps. And weekends ..."


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> Doug you asked, so I am supplying, I hate to even post this because I truly understand why some people are so passionate and positive about this DVR and I really truly respect You, Tom and Stuart.
> I am just making a point that people who are very close to the unit tend to always say its fine, perfect or working great. Especially when someone calls it a POS!


While you may have had the best of intentions --

Taking random comments from random times...

...about random equipment using different firmware versions at random times...

...and *not* with any consideration of any new capabilities, new features, and new services that were added during those periods, and also had much less maturity that the devices themselves...

Really demonstrates nothing of substance.

In the end - some people love their units, like their units, are OK with their units, sorta care for their units, and dislike their units. You get that with virtually anything in society. Perhaps we should just leave it at that.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Doug you asked, so I am supplying, I hate to even post this because I truly understand why some people are so passionate and positive about this DVR and I really truly respect You, Tom and Stuart.
> I am just making a point that people who are very close to the unit tend to always say its fine, perfect or working great. Especially when someone calls it a POS! All you need to do is search the forum with the Keyword POS and go back as far as you can and some people will still be telling you its great.
> Its now 2 years later and something like 25+ updates and its still a work in progress.


You're trying real hard to make a point but you are very unclear as to what that actually is.

Are you saying that we are lying about how our DVRs work?

Are you saying that we CEer's are delusional and that the majority of people have major problems?

What exactly is your point and how does it relate to this thread?

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

:beatdeadhorse::hair::hair:
Jeeez I think I stated my "POINT" pretty clearly at the Top of the post.
Is this the point when you try to goad me into saying something to you personaly that gets me kicked off the forum? Let me ask you a question that is in no way true but just an example of how people think.

Asking you something HYPOTHETICALY:
If someone says your sister is ugly are you going to agree with them or say "no she's not"? Even if you know its true!
Same thing with the HR2X DVR's and the numerous bugs.

And BTW it relates to the thread because Doug asked me for some examples.



MicroBeta said:


> You're trying real hard to make a point but you are very unclear as to what that actually is.
> 
> Are you saying that we are lying about how our DVRs work?
> 
> ...


----------



## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Slowness (in GUIDE/MENU navigation and some key presses) is the biggest issue at the moment. I expect to see improvement in these areas in the next few weeks.


Unless there is a significant speed difference between the next NR and the past few CEs, including the current CE, the next NR is simply not going to be the speed panacea you seem to be implying it will be. At least with regard to the HR22-100 units. Could you, perhaps, be referring to NRs farther down the road?



Doug Brott said:


> Perceptions are hard to go away though and I'm certain a few of the folks posting here will not change their mind regardless ..


 Maybe it's just me, but I've always believed that "perceptions" based upon repeatable empirical evidence should generally be referred to as facts.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok you know what, your right, the DVR is perfect :hurah:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> While you may have had the best of intentions --
> 
> Taking random comments from random times...
> 
> ...


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> Unless there is a significant speed difference between the next NR and the past few CEs, including the current CE, the next NR is simply not going to be the speed panacea you seem to be implying it will be. At least with regard to the HR22-100 units. Could you, perhaps, be referring to NRs farther down the road?


The level of distress that seems to be pervasive with 0x312 will not be there with the next release .. Just watch and see. It probably won't be so noticeable because it will be a decrease in complaints, not an increase in praise. Not suggesting it will be a panacea as there is always room for improvement in everything IMHO.



> Maybe it's just me, but I've always believed that "perceptions" based upon repeatable empirical evidence should generally be referred to as facts.


You should reread carefully the words that I wrote ..


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Drew2K July 2007
> "Yes - Ready for primetime. And morning talk shows. And mid-day soaps. And weekends ..."


True then, true today. If it were not, if the boxes were as bad as you believe, DIRECTV would be losing customers who have waited out their commitments, but that's not the case as evidenced in the quarterly DIRECTV financial calls and statements.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> True then, true today. If it were not, if the boxes were as bad as believed, DIRECTV would be losing customers who have waited out their commitments, but that's not the case as evidenced int he quarterly DIRECTV financial calls and statements.


Interesting what happens when you follow the money. Nobody's jumping ship...I guess that means they're delusional. !rolling

Mike


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> The level of distress that seems to be pervasive with 0x312 will not be there with the next release .. Just watch and see. It probably won't be so noticeable because it will be a decrease in complaints, not an increase in praise.


Based upon what I have seen, more likely it will merely be a minor shift in numbers from one of the first two groups below to the other:

1. The group that will be ecstatically thrilled to have any measurable speed increase at all, even if that means moving from performance that occurs at a snail's pace to performance that approaches that of a turtle. This group will marvel at "How much faster my HR2x is!"

2. The group that realizes a snail-to-turtle speed difference doesn't amount to much. This group will continue to declare that the emperor has no clothes because, well, the emperor has no clothes. A number of posters have been borderline savaged for daring to make such a declaration, but they seem to persist nonetheless.

3. The group that drinks the Kool-Aid and believes D* can do no wrong---generally a very vocal group, indeed. The rose-colored glasses make any navigation difficult, so once in this group, it's tough to get out.

I would be more than pleased to publicly acknowledge an honest-to-goodness, significantly measurable speed increase and be proven wrong, but based upon past experience, I ain't gettin' my hopes up. :nono2:


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> True then, true today. If it were not, if the boxes were as bad as you believe, DIRECTV would be losing customers who have waited out their commitments, but that's not the case as evidenced in the quarterly DIRECTV financial calls and statements.


Non sequitur. There's no way for you to directly tie subscriber/profit numbers to equipment quality. You simply have no way of knowing how many former customers have done just what you say they have not done, nor do you have any way of knowing how many potential customers have not begun service because of inferior equipment, nor do you know how many current customers sit suffering in (relative) silence for reasons other than equipment satisfaction levels.

Perhaps, if the current equipment were up to standard, whatever that may be, subscriber growth and market share would be even greater than they are.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> Based upon what I have seen, more likely it will merely be a minor shift in numbers from one of the first two groups below to the other:
> 
> 1. The group that will be ecstatically thrilled to have any measurable speed increase at all, even if that means moving from performance that occurs at a snail's pace to performance that approaches that of a turtle. This group will marvel at "How much faster my HR2x is!"
> 
> ...


Another person who can't admit that others may not have the same speed issues. 

Admittedly, my HR21-100 has been very slow. Not so with my HR20-700. It's as fast as I can expect it to be...push a button and it happens...but apparently it's the Kool-Aid and not reality talking. :sure:

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> Non sequitur. There's no way for you to directly tie subscriber/profit numbers to equipment quality. You simply have no way of knowing how many former customers have done just what you say they have not done, nor do you have any way of knowing how many potential customers have not begun service because of inferior equipment, nor do you know how many current customers sit suffering in (relative) silence for reasons other than equipment satisfaction levels.
> 
> Perhaps, if the current equipment were up standard, whatever that may be, subscriber growth and market share would be even greater than they are.


I think the point is that it's been over two years so there are numerous of commitments that have expired over the last couple of quarters and yet we haven't seen subs jumping ship. Not such a Non Sequitur.

Mike


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> Another person who can't admit that others may not have the same speed issues. Mike


Nowhere did I state that everyone was having problems, nor did I suggest the same.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> I think the point is that it's been over two years so there are numerous of commitments that have expired over the last couple of quarters and yet we haven't seen subs jumping ship. Not such a Non Sequitur.Mike


No, the point is that in spite of acknowledged subscriber and profit growth, the reasons for that growth cannot factually be stated as attributable to equipment quality given the available information.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> True then, true today. If it were not, if the boxes were as bad as you believe, DIRECTV would be losing customers who have waited out their commitments, but that's not the case as evidenced in the quarterly DIRECTV financial calls and statements.


Agreed...and apparently some folks are in denial on these points.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

None of us have any clue as to how those numbers break down. For all we know the huge amount of Churn could be people with HR2X leaving Directv or increased numbers could be new DVR's, we really don't know. 
In any case the DVR customers make up a very small percentage of the total customer base.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agreed...and apparently some folks are in denial on these points.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

If you use subscriber numbers as proof that the masses are happy with their HR then it must mean that those completely horrible motorola DVRs that Comcast (and other cable companies) uses are the best!

Cable has more subscribers - their equipment must be better. Nope. Not even close.

I'd dump DirecTV in a second if I get Sunday Ticket somewhere else. That doesn't mean I like the speed of my HR22s.

I'm a little puzzled as to why 2 or 3 people here just can't seem to see that there are a lot of people having problems with the speed of their HRs. Take a look at around. Just because your HRs are completely grand doesn't mean that everyone with speed troubles has a bad install.

No matter if you believe or admit it - DirecTV has serious troubles in the speed/remote response department with the HR DVRs. When people like Doug and Stuart - straight shooters and well respected - acknowledge it you know there is something that needs to be addressed. Ignore my posts and *****ing completely but these guys know and speak the truth.

Does everyone dislike ther HR box as much as I hate mine? No. Do many HR21/22/23 owners have troubles with navigating menus and using the remotes? Yes.

Lets just hope DirecTV is working on it and have a fix soon.

Even if you are completely content with your setup - please don't tell someone that has problems with the speed of their receiver that it is something other than DirecTV's problem. Maybe they have install issues, maybe they don't but don't just assume it is the person, power, dish alignment etc. If you want to help ask about their setup etc - it is likely to come down to their reciever. Especially if it is an HR21/22/23.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> No, the point is that in spite of acknowledged subscriber and profit growth, the reasons for that growth cannot factually be stated as attributable to equipment quality given the available information.


The point wasn't just about growth. It's also about churn; the loss of current subs. DirecTV continues to have record low churn.

Now if the subs are so unhappy you would expect to churn higher.

Mike


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> Non sequitur. There's no way for you to directly tie subscriber/profit numbers to equipment quality. You simply have no way of knowing how many former customers have done just what you say they have not done, nor do you have any way of knowing how many potential customers have not begun service because of inferior equipment, nor do you know how many current customers sit suffering in (relative) silence for reasons other than equipment satisfaction levels.


I'm tying low churn rates to high customer satisfaction. Customers are satisfied, they stay. Customers with advanced equipment stay. They have DVRs. They are satisfied enough to stay.


> Perhaps, if the current equipment were up standard, whatever that may be, subscriber growth and market share would be even greater than they are.


I have no idea what you're talking about ... "up standard"?


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> I'm tying low churn rates to high customer satisfaction. Customers are satisfied, they stay. Customers with advanced equipment stay. They have DVRs. They are satisfied enough to stay.


The terms "low" and "satisfied" are both very subjective terms. As previously noted, it's inarguable that DirecTV has seen steady net subscriber growth and has been profitable for quite some time. What is arguable, however, is the cause or causes for that growth and profitability. Quite simply, how much lower would the churn be and how much higher the satisfaction if the purported top-of-the-line equipment performed as well as equipment, even DirecTV's own, that is years older.



Drew2k said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about ... "up standard"?


Insert the word "to" between "up" and "standard" and try again.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> The point wasn't just about growth. It's also about churn; the loss of current subs. DirecTV continues to have record low churn.
> 
> Now if the subs are so unhappy you would expect to churn higher.
> 
> Mike


By DirecTV's own numerous announcements, the lowered churn rate is due primarily to their relatively recent focus on credit worthy customers. To suggest otherwise is merely an attempt to add obfuscation to the discussion and distort the facts.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I bet it seemed like a simple question when the OP asked it. 

Now a few posters are :beatdeadhorse: about points that not only make no sense, but are based on repeated or catch words with no cohesive thought behind them.

It's obvious that there are some differing opinions, which will not be resolved with this kind of endless back and forth that goes nowhere.

Between the poll, which is clear to most, and the subsequent majority feedback, I suspect the OP got the responses they sought (and likely a whole lot more). But only they can really determine that.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> The terms "low" and "satisfied" are both very subjective terms. As previously noted, it's inarguable that DirecTV has seen steady net subscriber growth and has been profitable for quite some time. What is arguable, however, is the cause or causes for that growth and profitability. Quite simply, how much lower would the churn be and how much higher the satisfaction if the purported top-of-the-line equipment performed as well as equipment, even DirecTV's own, that is years older.
> 
> Insert the word "to" between "up" and "standard" and try again.


Every complaint and word of praise in this thread is subjective, as are your comparisons to old equipment. Therefore by your own terms, you have no case. As to "standard" ... whose? Yours? Well my standard is obviously different than yours, and of course I'm right, so ...


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> By DirecTV's own numerous announcements, the lowered churn rate is due primarily to their relatively recent focus on credit worthy customers. To suggest otherwise is merely an attempt to add obfuscation to the discussion and distort the facts.


So credit-worthy customers are not discerning customers? Those desirable credit-worthy customers are just sheeple, the kind who woudl accept crap-on-a-cracker? Na-ah. Try again. As to your final sentence about distorting the facts, the facts are that users of this forum rate the HR2x as a B. Those who disagree with the grade ignore this fact in favor of creating their own.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> Every complaint and word of praise in this thread is subjective, as are your comparisons to old equipment. Therefore by your own terms, you have no case.


There is nothing at all subjective about the differences in speed between my HR22-100s and my R15-100 nor my neighbor's Dark Side (E*) DVR. They are both x-number of seconds faster and x% faster. The differences are quite real and quite measurable, so by my own terms, I have a case.



> As to "standard" ... whose? Yours? Well my standard is obviously different than yours, and of course I'm right, so ...


I'm not sure, is this where I'm supposed to respond with a "nanny, nanny, boo-boo?"


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> So credit-worthy customers are not discerning customers?


I have no idea, do you? I merely repeated what DirecTV has stated numerous times, that the lowered churn rate is due primarily to the shift in focus. Do you have any evidence to the contrary or are you just interested in making ridiculous erroneous attributions?



> Those desirable credit-worthy customers are just sheeple, the kind who woudl accept crap-on-a-cracker?


I made no such assertion.



> As to your final sentence about distorting the facts, the facts are that users of this forum rate the HR2x as a B. Those who disagree with the grade ignore this fact in favor of creating their own.


I rated my units a "D," due primarily to the fact that they are snail-slow and always have been. If that qualifies as "disagre[eing] with the grade," whatever that's supposed to mean, then so be it.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> As to your final sentence about distorting the facts, the facts are that users of this forum rate the HR2x as a B. Those who disagree with the grade ignore this fact in favor of creating their own.


Roughly 25% of those that responded graded it a C or worse and those who ignore that very high number are creating their own 'fact' which is more like 'fiction'.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

I'll give it a 'C'. There are some things I would like to see work differently but for the most part it has been a good unit..


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

If you take out the CE votes that are not really grading the Unit you end up with 38% of people giving it a "C" or Less, thats 1 out of every 3 customers who participated! Keep in mind, thats the result after 3 years on the market, numerous updates and hundreds of Beta testers giving feedback.

Hats off to the CE guys, you guys are very patient, I thank you for all the hard work and sacrifices you have put in but I think the other end is not getting the Job done fast enough, by now this unit should be bullet proof! I have faith that what Doug is saying is true, so maybe we should all just wait and see.



lparsons21 said:


> Roughly 25% of those that responded graded it a C or worse and those who ignore that very high number are creating their own 'fact' which is more like 'fiction'.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> I'm not sure, is this where I'm supposed to respond with a "nanny, nanny, boo-boo?"


You're the one who said things would be different if the boxes were "up [to] standard", so I'm just curious whose standard that would be. It's obviously your own standard, and thus, is subjective. Every voter in this poll has their own standard.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Roughly 25% of those that responded graded it a C or worse and those who ignore that very high number are creating their own 'fact' which is more like 'fiction'.


By my calculations, as of this morning's results,61% of the respondents give the HR2x a grade of B or higher.

176 B or higher
112 C or lower
288 Total (excluding CE)

176/288 = 61% B or Higher
112/288 = 38% C or lower

The results do speak for themselves, but why would you think anyone is ignoring the C and lower grades? I think it's pretty clear DIRECTV doesn't, and neither does this forum, as there are entire threads and sub-forums devoted to improving the HR2x. It there was no acknowledgment that it wasn't perfect, there would be no need for those threads and sub-forums, would there?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> By my calculations, as of this morning's results,61% of the respondents give the HR2x a grade of B or higher.
> 
> 176 B or higher
> 112 C or lower
> ...


That is true, there is recognition of the issue, at least to the acknowledgement that a problem exists in many users minds. But there are also lots of responses in those various threads that all too often try to deflect the issue a bit.

My install is a good example. It is about as simple as you can get. One dish, one receiver hooked to one TV. It has been checked and rechecked both by my local retailer who did the initial install, and the 'advanced tech' that D* sent out when I blew through 4 HR20s for the 771(?) error on tuner 2 that was showing up at the time.

They stuck an HR21-700 in place and a year and a half ago it was just fine. A tad slow compared to the Dish Vip I had been using, but very tolerable and after a few days with it, I didn't really notice that it was slower. Then came the 'updates/upgrades'. Things got slower and then the skip-to-end started. So a year and a half later, it was at the point of much aggravation, so I made a change.

That's why I keep saying that it has to be in the receiver or in the overall design of the setup. My setup is as simple as can be done for an HR install and yet it is irritating enough for me to switch things up a bit.

I do think that many here are very supportive and have answered questions and offered help to me on many occasions. Unfortunately, I don't think D* themselves are nearly that responsive nor helpful, and they are the ones getting the money!

IF the HR series were in their 1st couple of years production, this could be understandable, but the reality is that this is a design in its 4th year and there are no valid reasons for it to not perform its basic functions quickly and accurately.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> By DirecTV's own numerous announcements, the lowered churn rate is due primarily to their relatively recent focus on credit worthy customers. To suggest otherwise is merely an attempt to add obfuscation to the discussion and distort the facts.


 Do you want us to believe that people won't leave their service provider if they dislike the equipment or service because they have good credit? Talk about obfuscation. 

Let's use a little common sense and elucidate this discussion (see I can use big words too). Gaining credit worthy customers will definitely reduce the portion of churn caused by terminated accounts due to non payment and those who drop service because they can't afford it. Fair enough; that makes perfect sense.

However, it also makes sense to me that if someone thinks the hardware is that bad they would leave when their commitment is up. I guess we're supposed to believe that the levels of credit worthy subs that don't care that their receivers suck and are staying with DirecTV is very high. That these good credit havin' subs are in numbers high enough somehow high enough to offset the loss of people who are upset enough with their hardware to leave. If the majority of subs are that upset at the quality of their HR's then this whole scenario makes no sense to me. For the last eight months or so, two year commitments have expired and we should have seen churn levels climbing. It's not so how do we interpret that. IMHO, not based on credit worthyness...I'm just sayin' 

Further, the speed issues seem to be mostly limited to certain receiver manufactures (i.e. -100s). Taking into account that missed recording (not due to conflicts or user errors), lockups, and spontaneous reboots are abnormal conditions and can usually be fixed with a little troubleshooting, it would seem that the percentage of subs with issues related to firmware is probably pretty small. Of course this is all conjecture on my part but makes sense when looking at the whole picture. This conjecture also doesn't take into account things that effect all the firmware flavors (e.g. CIG and auto-record to name a couple) as these are not usually the kinds of things that would make someone mad enough to change providers...hey, it's a theory. :grin:

Mike


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hate to repeat myself (ok not really )but it seems to be the thing to do in this thread...

Cable companies are a perfect example of how having to put up with nasty equipment doesn't equal dumping your service.

I think we can agree (maybe) that many of the DVRs available to cable customers just simply stink! Slow, low capacity, hard to use in many ways but still - more people use cable.....



Mike Greer said:


> If you use subscriber numbers as proof that the masses are happy with their HR then it must mean that those completely horrible motorola DVRs that Comcast (and other cable companies) uses are the best!
> 
> Cable has more subscribers - their equipment must be better. Nope. Not even close.
> 
> ...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> I rated my units a "D," due primarily to the fact that they are snail-slow and always have been. If that qualifies as "disagre[eing] with the grade," whatever that's supposed to mean, then so be it.


I've been reading your posts on this thread and you make good points. Biased, but good. I've also been looking at your setup.

First thing I see in your setup, is that you have two 22-100s. Most folks know how I feel about any HRs ending in 100. You have two of these and are using them as your benchmark? I had one, lasted a month and became unwatchable, which is exactly what I thought would happen when I purchased it. But it was fast, and very responsive to remote control commands from both rooms that I used it in. Another issue caused me to dump it.

If I had to factor the 100s into my rating on the poll, my "A" would have quickly turned into a much lower rating. Have you read the many, many posts where people say that they have a 100 that is far slower than their other HRs? If you did, did you not believe them? I bought mine with the full expectation that it would fail and I would end up with a 23, which is what I wanted in the first place. That's exactly what happened.

I know this will bring on the wrath of all the people who have 100s that work perfectly. If it wasn't for that one issue with my 22, I would have been happy with it. But I gotta say this: If it ends in 100, based on my experiences with many 100s, it is junk. You bought junk. You could have gone on eBay and bought a better platform, but you bought junk. You seem like an intelligent person, so I'm gonna assume you bought them without knowing what you were buying.

Secondly, I see that you have a SWM fed by cascaded feeds from a 6x8. I don't know much about the SWMs, but I do know that if you cascade multi-switches, the second switch is gonna put out half the signal that the original feeding multi-switch has. I had to have that corrected by adding an additional dish to feed each of my 6x16 multi-switches. If the 22s are being fed by the SWM, that might be the cause of your slowness. A poor receiver getting a poor signal might well be slow.

Rich


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> By my calculations, as of this morning's results,61% of the respondents give the HR2x a grade of B or higher.
> 
> 176 B or higher
> 112 C or lower
> ...


I guess I'm in the minority.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> First thing I see in your setup, is that you have two 22-100s. Most folks know how I feel about any HRs ending in 100. You have two of these and are using them as your benchmark? I had one, lasted a month and became unwatchable, which is exactly what I thought would happen when I purchased it. But it was fast, and very responsive to remote control commands from both rooms that I used it in. Another issue caused me to dump it.
> 
> If I had to factor the 100s into my rating on the poll, my "A" would have quickly turned into a much lower rating. Have you read the many, many posts where people say that they have a 100 that is far slower than their other HRs? If you did, did you not believe them? I bought mine with the full expectation that it would fail and I would end up with a 23, which is what I wanted in the first place. That's exactly what happened.
> 
> ...


What? Now you agree with me? My 3 HR-22s are "junk" as you say? I "bought junk"?:eek2:

Who are you and what have you done with Rich?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Not exactly what you would want to see if you're DirecTV.



Drew2k said:


> By my calculations, as of this morning's results,61% of the respondents give the HR2x a grade of B or higher.
> 
> 176 B or higher
> 112 C or lower
> ...


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> What? Now you agree with me? My 3 HR-22s are "junk" as you say? I "bought junk"?:eek2:
> 
> Who are you and what have you done with Rich?


No, I don't agree with you. You have a different issue. But, yeah, you bought the worst HRs available. If all I had was three 22s I'd be complaining too. But I'd do more than complain, I'd have the problem rectified.

Let me say this one more time, then I'll go back to just reading posts and keeping my mouth shut, because I don't see what is so controversial about this simple poll. You have three 22s that I assume you bought at the same time and have identical issues with them. And you think that's normal and deride others who don't agree with you.

You have another problem. The odds on buying three HRs that have the same identical problems are probably astronomical. Not impossible, but very unlikely. Yet you seek no help, you're completely sure your install is correct in spite of all the posts about crappy installations.

Sometimes in life, you get what you deserve.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

I may be a bit dense, but I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to be grading. Are we supposed to be judging the firmware for bugs, or just overall satisfaction with the DVR? For example: one of my biggest frustrations with the HR2x is the fact that when you tell it to record a series, it won't tell you that it won't record that series due to conflicts. You don't find out until a week or more later when you sit down to watch it, and it's not there. It's not a bug, it's just a feature that they didn't include (even though TiVo figured out the importance of that feature a decade ago). I agree that these things are slow, and that definitely affects satisfaction with the unit, but can improved firmware make them acceptable, or do they just not have enough processing power?

From an overall satisfaction perspective, I would give these a D-. But from a bugs perspective, I would give them a B. Random reboots and other unexplained issues have noticeably improved since I first got these a little over a year ago. But performance and usability still sucks.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Wow - someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!

After unknowingly buying into 3 HR22s that we have both called 'junk' I did my homework. Admittedly I should have done my homework before I switched to DirecTV but I wanted Sunday Ticket and an HD DVR. In the course of this 'homework' I have checked out at least 8 additional HR2X boxes that ALL have had my problems to some degree. I don't have some strange, odd-ball problem that no one has seen - many people have had the same trouble themselves or have seen it in other's installations.

The only way I know of to 'rectify' the problem is to wait for DirecTV to update their software. Hopefully, as has been posted here, the fix is coming soon. I thought I had a line on an HR20 that I could buy but someone beat me to it. I could play the my HR22 is dead game with DirecTV and hope for an HR20 but odds are I'd get a 21,22 or 23 and be in the same boat.

And I am sure that my install is fine - I even took one of my receivers over to a neighbor's house last weekend - same problem there. If I thought that there was even a chance something in my installation was causing my HR22s to have slowdowns and missed/duplicated remote response I would have DirecTV come check it out.

Life is good Rich - don't sweat the small stuff!



rich584 said:


> No, I don't agree with you. You have a different issue. But, yeah, you bought the worst HRs available. If all I had was three 22s I'd be complaining too. But I'd do more than complain, I'd have the problem rectified.
> 
> Let me say this one more time, then I'll go back to just reading posts and keeping my mouth shut, because I don't see what is so controversial about this simple poll. You have three 22s that I assume you bought at the same time and have identical issues with them. And you think that's normal and deride others who don't agree with you.
> 
> ...


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

I take the "performance" word literally -- as in the performance of my laptop. The problem here is slow channel changes and much to slow scrolling of channels lists and the Guide. Exiting step by step with the "Back" key leaves much to be desired. This applies to both the HR20 and HR21.

Otherwise, the HR20-700 has done pretty well, though there have been a few glitches (a 0 minute recording, not quite reliable function of action keys, etc.). Enough to be mildly upsetting at the time, but not enough nor consistent enough to report as a problem -- I wouldn't be able to know just what had caused it anyway. 

So, overall a "B" though the "performance" at time deserves only a "C".


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I've been reading your posts on this thread and you make good points. Biased, but good. I've also been looking at your setup.


You're making the assumption that my own installation is my only point of reference, when, in fact, it is not.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> You're the one who said things would be different if the boxes were "up [to] standard",


No, I said perhaps they would be different. Then again, perhaps not.


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

In room 1 the temp is 105 deg. But there is a fountain with ice cold water.
In room 2 the temp is 95 deg. But there is a fountain with warm water.
In room 3 the temp is 115 deg. And there is no water.
If people have a choice they are going to stay in room 1 but it’s still hot in there.
IMO people are staying with Directv because of the content, not the HR2x. 

When/if the HD DirecTivo comes out, we will see how long the HR survives.

The reasons I’m staying with DirecTv are.
1. Can’t afford ETF.
2. Direct still has the content.
3. The promise of the HD DirecTivo.
By the way, directv is in room 1, dish is in room 2 and cable is in room 3.
And, no mike, I cannot admit that the HR is as fast as the VIP because it is not true.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> Do you want us to believe that people won't leave their service provider if they dislike the equipment or service because they have good credit? Talk about obfuscation. Mike


How you possibly could arrive at the above based upon what I have written simply baffles me beyond description.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> And I am sure that my install is fine - I even took one of my receivers over to a neighbor's house last weekend - same problem there. If I thought that there was even a chance something in my installation was causing my HR22s to have slowdowns and missed/duplicated remote response I would have DirecTV come check it out.


And you got it to work at your neighbor's house, how?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> You're making the assumption that my own installation is my only point of reference, when, in fact, it is not.


I made that assumption based on your setup because that is the only info you have about any setup.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And you got it to work at your neighbor's house, how?


?? Why would you think that it wasn't just a simple unplug at his house and plug in at the neighbors?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> And you got it to work at your neighbor's house, how?


Umm - I don't understand the question?

I unplugged the power, disconnected the HDMI cable, telephone cord and satellite cable to my SWM splitter at my house, walked over to my neighbor's house, disconnected his deactivated receiver, plugged mine in, ran the setup because he doesn't have a SWM setup. I then played around with it for about an hour - same pauses during navigation, same missed/duplicated remote response as I get in my setup... Maybe a touch better but I would have to leave it running at his house - things get worse the longer they run.

By the way - the problems are there with or without the network connected but much much worse with it connected. Doug suggested I disconnect the network and it did improve - but the problems still remain.

Bottom line - unless my neighbor, 2 Best Buy stores, another local retailer and my old setup without SWM all have the same installation issues (along with many people here), the problems are with the receivers.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

rich584 said:


> You bought junk. You could have gone on eBay and bought a better platform, but you bought junk. You seem like an intelligent person, so I'm gonna assume you bought them without knowing what you were buying.


I bought nothing. At my request (for purposes of clarification, I requested HD-DVRs, not HR22 units specifically) DirecTV delivered the HR22-100 units to my doorstep accompanied by, not one, but two knowledgeable and competent MDU installers (even though I live in a single-family residence), who proceeded to expertly complete my SWM upgrade installation, including the DirecTV-supplied SWM-8 switch, based upon my explicit instructions.

But why should any of that matter? Is it not reasonable to assume that a piece of electronic equipment supplied by a seemingly reputable company should be fit for the purpose for which it is intended, regardless of how it was acquired?

This blame-the-consumer attitude based upon some perceived lack of due diligence on the part of the consumer is nothing more than continued apologetics and an attempt at blame-shifting.



> I don't know much about the SWMs


Fortunately for me, I do.



> If the 22s are being fed by the SWM, that might be the cause of your slowness.


My issues have absolutely nothing to do with signal levels, which, by the way, are well within specification, but thank you for your suggestion.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Because we have people pointing out that the Majority think it's a "B" and thats all they seem to be getting from the Poll, so others had to start pointing out the other side of the picture.

The frustration that so many of these guys are feeling is not only caused by the receiver but also by the following:

How Long this is taking

people who say "Oh you have a bad DVR". (not to say that some people dont, but it's pretty frustrating to hear that if your on your 3rd or 4th replacement)

The lack of an official Bug list from directv

The fact that the forum will not step in and make its own HR2x bug list.

The Lack of an official Bug Fix list with each release.

New Features being added when the old one's dont work right.

The "Its working perfect replies" that are made Month after month, year after year. Yet Directv keeps fixing the Perfect with another update. Yes that does give anybody with a brain a bit of suspicion as to if what those posters are saying is true.



Drew2k said:


> -snip-
> why would you think anyone is ignoring the C and lower grades? I think it's pretty clear DIRECTV doesn't, and neither does this forum, as there are entire threads and sub-forums devoted to improving the HR2x. It there was no acknowledgment that it wasn't perfect, there would be no need for those threads and sub-forums, would there?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> How you possibly could arrive at the above based upon what I have written simply baffles me beyond description.


I guess you've never heard of sarcasm...rolling eyes 

Of course it's a completely unreasonable assumption, thus the sarcasm. But, to be clear so you get it, I don't think you were actually saying people won't leave their service provider if they dislike the equipment or service because they have good credit.

The point I was trying to make, apparently badly, is that if people were so upset and threatening to leave (I can't count the number of times I've read posts stating such) then you would expect to see an increase in churn and we haven't. If subs were going to abandon ship, it doesn't matter how many customers with good credit we have, churn would still have gone up.

Since we haven't seen an increase in churn, it becomes a valid assumption that it's not bad enough to leave. The point that it would actually be bad enough...well I have no idea. :grin:

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Because we have people pointing out that the Majority think it's a "B" and thats all they seem to be getting from the Poll, so others had to start pointing out the other side of the picture.
> 
> <snip>


Actually, I will argue it's *the other way around*. You and others, started lambasting members who voted A (e.g. way back on page one/posts 15, 16, and 18 and many subsequent negative posts).

Based on that some became frustrated with your negativity and direct attacks on other members votes that they chimed in. It is absolutely incredulous of you to say that you are posting because of what others had said in this thread.

Mike


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

What happened to Ignoring me
Once again you keep posting without reading :nono2:

_____________________________________________________________
*Drew Said*
"why would you think anyone is ignoring the C and lower grades? "

*I replied*
"Because we have people pointing out that the Majority think it's a "B" and thats all they seem to be getting from the Poll, so others had to start pointing out the other side of the picture."

______________________________________________________________
This is all recent stuff, but you still seem to be hung up on Page 1.

And yes I do think that anybody who thinks this thing is perfect is sipping Kool-aid. Even Doug has come out and said there are speed issues and even CE'rs complain about Briiips and forget trying to tell me that Briiips come from the stations, I know better, I have the Orginal C-Band and KU Band Satellite feeds to compare some of these stations with, and the orginal broadcasts don't have Briiips. IMO almost all these Briiips are a by product of a buggy mpeg4 compression scheme, thats why it got so much better after just one update.



MicroBeta said:


> Actually, I will argue it's *the other way around*. You and others, started lambasting members who voted A (e.g. way back on page one/posts 15, 16, and 18 and many subsequent negative posts).
> 
> Based on that some became frustrated with your negativity and direct attacks on other members votes that they chimed in. It is absolutely incredulous of you to say that you are posting because of what others had said in this thread.
> 
> Mike


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> The point I was trying to make, apparently badly, is that if people were so upset and threatening to leave (I can't count the number of times I've read posts stating such) then you would expect to see an increase in churn and we haven't. Mike


I'll try one more time and then I give up.

What you are saying is that since DirecTV clients are not leaving in droves, the equipment must be great! What I am saying is that you have no basis whatsoever for making that kind of statement nor do you have any idea just how many customers are leaving for the very reason you seem to be assuming they aren't, namely dissatisfaction with their equipment.

While the equipment may indeed be tolerable for some, most, or nearly all, people discontinue service (or not) for all sorts of reasons, each comprising a portion of the churn rate.

The fact of the matter is that we simply do not know what percentage of the actual churn rate is attributable to lack of customer ability to pay, customer deaths, customer dissatisfaction with equipment, customer dissatisfaction with programming, customer dissatisfaction with CSR experiences, etc., but we do know that the churn rate is made up of all those components and more.

What we also know is that DirecTV has stated numerous times that recent decreases in churn rate are primarily attributable to an enhanced focus on customer credit worthiness (thereby reducing the number of involuntary terminations)---not a reduction in customer deaths, not superior equipment quality/performance, not superior programming offerings, not superior CSR experiences, etc. Quite obviously, that does not exclude all of the aforementioned as legitimate reasons for customer retention, which, in fact they are.

Now, given the above, it is entirely reasonable to deduce that if any component reason(s) of the churn rate is(are) reduced, including the portion that includes customer dissatisfaction with equipment quality/performance, then the overall churn rate has the potential to decrease. What it doesn't do is stem the current mass exodus to greener pastures, since there is no exodus to stem.

Simply stated, all other things being equal, it should be intuitively obvious that increasing the quality/performance of the equipment *will* serve to reduce the number of customers, however many or few that may be, who are, indeed, discontinuing service due to equipment dissatisfaction, or who may be leaving as a result of a combination of reasons including equipment dissatisfaction, and allows the churn rate to be reduced even further. Why is that so hard to understand? :shrug:


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## Larry_Rymal (Jan 15, 2006)

Just simply put---SLOW. HR22/100. Slowest DirecTV receiver I have ever used since 1995. All features work great----s l o w l y. Just molasses slow.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Larry_Rymal said:


> Just simply put---SLOW. HR22/100. Slowest DirecTV receiver I have ever used since 1995. All features work great----s l o w l y. Just molasses slow.


Heretic.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

What your saying makes 100% sense, if SOME people took the time to read posts instead of just replying they would get it. My own experiences bears out exactly what you are saying, I have seen friends complain and complain about the HR2x, most say they are going to get rid of D* and switch to E* or cable but almost all of them still have HR2x.

I think many factors stop people from giving up the HR2X even if its giving a lot of problems, things like:

The 2 year contract.
Sunday Ticket
All the shows they have recorded and saved will be lost.
They love the HD picture quality and are not sure how the other providers PQ will look.
The hassle of going through the ordering and Installation.
They believe that all DVR's are problematic because they have heard stories about Comcast DVR's so they figure the HR2X is not all that bad.

Some people don't even watch much TV, so they never even experience most of the problems. (Most of the people in my company are constantly traveling to our off shore Data entry facility in the Caribbean; they spend almost 40% of the year abroad)

Lastly, Cash is tight now and some people don't want to Pay E* for a new DVR or they have already used E* and don't want to go back so they stick with D*



zkc16 said:


> I'll try one more time and then I give up.
> 
> What you are saying is that since DirecTV clients are not leaving in droves, the equipment must be great! What I am saying is that you have no basis whatsoever for making that kind of statement nor do you have any idea just how many customers are leaving for the very reason you seem to be assuming they aren't, namely dissatisfaction with their equipment.
> 
> ...


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc16 said:


> I'll try one more time and then I give up.
> 
> What you are saying is that since DirecTV clients are not leaving in droves, the equipment must be great!


That's not what *I've* been saying...

Less than 40% of the respondents here say that the receivers are worthless pieces of crap and are not happy that others don't agree with them. I've said that since DIRECTV has such low churn with a very discerning customer base with advanced equipment, this means that the receivers are acceptable. If they were not acceptable (or were worthless pieces of crap) then the churn would be higher.

You want to argue I have no proof, fine, keep arguing. Have a ball with it...

The bottom line is that those in Camp A who who think the receivers (as a product line) are worthless will not be convinced otherwise, while there are many here in Camp B who think the receivers, although not perfect, are definitely not worthless. Camp B also recognizes that there are individual clunkers out there, as with any product, but Camp A refuses to accept that anyone in Camp A can have a DVR they are perfectly satisfied with.

This has been fun, but this thread is an exercise in futility, as there will be no final agreement.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

On a related not, bottom quoting is very difficult to read when the response precedes the quote and the response is lengthy!   :lol:



> bottom quote here


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

zkc16 said:


> I'll try one more time and then I give up.
> 
> *What you are saying is that since DirecTV clients are not leaving in droves, the equipment must be great!* What I am saying is that you have no basis whatsoever for making that kind of statement nor do you have any idea just how many customers are leaving for the very reason you seem to be assuming they aren't, namely dissatisfaction with their equipment.
> 
> ...


I like how you only include part of my post and then miss quote the following which you conveniently left out...
"_Since we haven't seen an increase in churn, it becomes a valid assumption that it's not bad enough to leave._​and then you miss represent my comment as follows&#8230;
"_ What you are saying is that since DirecTV clients are not leaving in droves, the equipment must be great! _​
Even when I state something explicitly, you leave that out, and then you make an inference on what you did leave in and base an entire long winded post on that single incorrect premise...interesting. :scratchin

"Simply stated&#8230;" it's not bad enough to make people leave. Simple as that; it doesn't imply that I'm saying the equipment is great, nor does it mean everyone is happy with their hardware. Infer what you want from that. :shrug:

Mike


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> ...as there will be no final agreement.


Agreed.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Done!


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## bsnelson (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm going with "C" for a HR20-100 and a HR21-100. I regularly have the following:

1. Briip (very annoying)
2. Inadvertent skip to end
3. Slow/erratic response to remote commands

I also have HDMI handshaking problems, but that may be due to my Psyclone PSC47 switch box, so I'm not going to blame the HR2x boxes for that. I don't have a lot of the slowness that many complain about, but there are moments of slowness. The top two above, though, are our worst problems. 

Brad


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

1. Tip of the hat to Doug for initiating a somewhat controversial thread, and asking the CE participants to refrain from responding to the poll in order to get "cleaner" data.

2. I think an A or an F vote for this unit may reflect some bias. If you discard those votes, you are looking at about 40% who give it a C or D. In an era of great consumer electronics, that seems like pretty weak beer, at best.

3. Two theories (theories don't have to be correct to be fun) -- Perhaps the HR2x's somewhat troubled software evolution has hit bottom, and Doug anticipates the next NR is anticipated to be much, much better received by users, and this is an effort to document that positive turn in fortune. Then again, perhaps D* is trying to decide whether to migrate to (i) the new TIVO HD box as as the primary DVR unit or (ii) an entirely new internal hardware/software platform as as the primary DVR unit.

4. I really, really like D* programming, and hope to be running a new TIVO HD box in early 2010. If they get dual buffers working on the HR2x for football this fall, that would be a good interim fix. That won't be true in the fall of 2010.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

One of my working theories is along those same lines; that the hardware is maxed out, it cannot handle decoding two HD streams along with all the other stuff they are trying to do. When the next release comes out I guess we will find out if all these problems really can be fixed in software.



Nicholsen said:


> 3. Two theories (theories don't have to be correct to be fun) -- Perhaps the HR2x's somewhat troubled software evolution has hit bottom, and Doug anticipates the next NR is anticipated to be much, much better received by users, and this is an effort to document that positive turn in fortune. Then again, perhaps D* is trying to decide whether to migrate to (i) the new TIVO HD box as as the primary DVR unit or (ii) an entirely new internal hardware/software platform as as the primary DVR unit.
> .


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## herkulease (Jul 29, 2007)

Haven't visited in a while. 

I give it a C for the HR22, a B for the HR20

the HR22 is horrible slow especially compared to the HR20. I lIke that its black though. 

If the next release can improve the speed performance of the HR22 then it'll come up into the B range. 

Anyhow I"m sure the speed complaints have been mentioned and beaten to death. 

However I will say when the newer HD directivo comes out I will quickly move to it. unless its gets bastardized somehow.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

You city guys with all the options spin all the "no churn" theories you want. I'd be outa here in 2 seconds if I actually HAD any viable options out here in the country. No cable, no U-verse, nada. My only hope for functioning hardware is Tivo, if it ever shows up.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> ...the hardware is maxed out, it cannot handle decoding two HD streams along with all the other stuff they are trying to do.


But there's nothing in the pipeline where they'd be decoding two streams, is there? That'd only be the case if they tried to do PIP. It really does boggle my mind that it's not fast enough to handle things like remote commands and guide scrolling with snappy response. It's not like this is new technology, and they've had over five years of hardware advancements over earlier similar products. That's a long time in the computer industry.


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## GaryAZ (Jul 30, 2007)

HR20-100. I voted B. The slow response is the biggest negative for me. Brrrip is a big problem on the local channels (has been for a long time) but I have trouble putting all the blame on the box. 

I probably would have voted C but I've had a great experience so far with eSATA. I have to give some props for an "unsupported" bonus.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Maruuk said:


> You city guys with all the options spin all the "no churn" theories you want. I'd be outa here in 2 seconds if I actually HAD any viable options out here in the country. No cable, no U-verse, nada. My only hope for functioning hardware is Tivo, if it ever shows up.


Churn is churn...no way to spin it - its a statistic. 

Options are good....and it is unfortunate that yours are very limited.

But since most customers have several options, and the churn rate is still very, very low, especially compared to other industries and services, it would appear the majority of customer don't share your enthusiasm to depart.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> 2. I think an A or an F vote for this unit may reflect some bias. If you discard those votes, you are looking at about 40% who give it a C or D. In an era of great consumer electronics, that seems like pretty weak beer, at best.


There are nearly 5 times the number of 'A' votes as their are 'F' votes. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to discard either category .. There must be a reason for that bias and shouldn't that be a part of the equation. (BTW, I disagree that there is significant bias)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> 3. Two theories (theories don't have to be correct to be fun) -- Perhaps the HR2x's somewhat troubled software evolution has hit bottom, and Doug anticipates the next NR is anticipated to be much, much better received by users, and this is an effort to document that positive turn in fortune. Then again, perhaps D* is trying to decide whether to migrate to (i) the new TIVO HD box as as the primary DVR unit or (ii) an entirely new internal hardware/software platform as as the primary DVR unit.


Ah, theories are fun, but HR2x .. Not going away in favor of the TiVo. Assuming the TiVo hits the shelves (we haven't seen it yet, right?) .. Both will be available.

As for "bottom" .. From my perspective, the HR2x platform continues to move forward. No doubt there are folks here that would disagree with that comment, but nonetheless, that is the way I feel about it. Sure, there are some hiccups along the way, there have been marked improvements year over year. I don't think anyone can honestly disagree with that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> 4. I really, really like D* programming, and hope to be running a new TIVO HD box in early 2010. If they get dual buffers working on the HR2x for football this fall, that would be a good interim fix. That won't be true in the fall of 2010.


Stay tuned .. but I've hear zilch (as in absolutely nothing) about the the TiVo since about March/April time frame. Last word I did hear was Q1 2010 but really, that means end of Q1. I fully expect your football experience this fall to be where you want it to be .. double your pleasure.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

The problem with these "grading" polls is that we are asked to assign a "letter grade" without any objective criteria on which to base it.

When one user posts:
"Voted A. Never had any problems with it. I have 1 minor complaint and it seems like every one else has the same. It is extremely slowwwwww!!!! The box is great for every thing else. Why DTV cannot get this thing to move fast?"

and another posts:
"I voted C. My HR21-200 is better when watching an SD program with NATIVE set to ON. Watching an HD feed, that's a different story. The unit becomes very slow and sluggish. Navigating through the menus and the guide is a frustrating chore. I often browse and program the DVR online because of this. Also, using 30 second slip often will shoot me to the end of the program instantly. That is ultimate frustration. My Motorola HD DVR from Charter was faster than this. And that box was a piece of crap. So, the main problem with my HR21 is SPEED."

what you are really left with is a rather crude image of basic "satisfaction" and not an objective view of how the device is actually performing against specific benchmarks like a normal "grading" process would provide.

I suppose this is OK if that is what the intent is, but then why not simply create the poll as "Overall, how satisfied are you? [Completely/Somewhat/Not at all] instead of an ambiguous grading poll asking about how it is performing?

That said, I gave it a "loose B" at this time, due to slow navigation. Looking at the numbers, (avg grade of B/C - 2.6) that seems to be the concensus.

What will the next NR need to bring that to an "A"?
1) Increase the speed of operation to that of competitors DVRs.
2) Do not introduce any new bugs, glitches or anomalies.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The fact that the forum will not step in and make its own HR2x bug list.


So go ahead and start one ..


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> The problem with these "grading" polls is that we are asked to assign a "letter grade" without any objective criteria on which to base it.


I'm not the only person that can create polls, BTW. In any event, the exercise has been successful.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

To make a real Bug list you would need to get that List from Directv or the CE records.
If I just make a general post; people will be adding in stuff and others will be arguing that they dont see that problem, so the only real bug consensus will be, it's Slow and it Briiips.

With all the digging that has gone on during the CE's I am pretty sure that the CE section can give a proper bug list for any version of the firmware, the kind of list that not only lists the bug but also the method to expose it.
Example, I know there is a search bug, because I saw it once when I did a search, but I dont remember how I did it, because it was at 3am. I do know that the results I got back where all incorrect because it was showing the Movie I was searching for as being on a ton of Sports channels.

Dont you think it would be nice if we had a thread that was compilation of all the CE'rs results on a particular version of firmware, something that would allow people to know if the problem they are seeing is a known issue or something unique to there system?



Doug Brott said:


> So go ahead and start one ..


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

That would not be the case if FIOS was available everywhere 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> But since most customers have several options, and the churn rate is still very, very low, especially compared to other industries and services, it would appear the majority of customer don't share your enthusiasm to depart.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

If anyone wants to know what's going on with reported issues on the current or past CEs, all they have to do is simply read the issues threads...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> That would not be the case if FIOS was available everywhere


Oh....I think with their rinky dinky HD DVR hard drives that have alot less storage and also less HD channels too...it would be plenty of difference from where I am right now...


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> There are nearly 5 times the number of 'A' votes as their are 'F' votes. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to discard either category .. There must be a reason for that bias and shouldn't that be a part of the equation. (BTW, I disagree that there is significant bias)


Well, it makes sense. There are a mix of fanboys and those who are truly impressed that'll give the boxes an 'A', and a few haters that will give it an 'F'. Obviously the fanboys will outnumber the haters on an enthusiast site like this.

But the truth is, as they say, in the middle. Lots of 'B' and 'C' votes show that it's a good piece of hardware with a few minor annoyances, and that's probably an accurate description. Let's face it, very very very few people are leaving over slow DVRs and brrriiips.

(Where you and I probably differ in opinion is in DirecTV's ability to fix these issues with software tweaks.)



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Oh....I think with their rinky dinky HD DVR hard drives that have alot less storage and also less HD channels too...it would be plenty of difference from where I am right now...


I dunno, judging by Fios' national lineup card I'd have to say their HD lineup is very close unless you like the repition of SD poker and blackout notices on 20something Fox Sports Channels.

And they seem to have more HD premiums available in _VOD alone_ than D* has, period.

But overall, they seem to have tons more channels than D*.

If this were Verizon territory, I'd give serious considering to switching, just for the improved SD picture quality alone.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Dont you think it would be nice if we had a thread that was compilation of all the CE'rs results on a particular version of firmware, something that would allow people to know if the problem they are seeing is a known issue or something unique to there system?


All I know is that I do not have time to manage any kind of bug list. Many folks have asked, even a few tried to step up and to it .. bottom line is that it really just not feasible. In any event. We've got the tools if you want to have a go at it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Tom Servo said:


> Well, it makes sense. There are a mix of fanboys and those who are truly impressed that'll give the boxes an 'A', and a few haters that will give it an 'F'. Obviously the fanboys will outnumber the haters on an enthusiast site like this.


 .. uh ok .. whatever .. I'm just not seeing why it's OK to summarily dismiss either group. If you hate it .. you hate it .. if you love it .. you love it .. and for all the rest .. it is what it is. Everyone gets a vote here. Fanboy .. hater .. and everyone in between.



> But the truth is, as they say, in the middle. Lots of 'B' and 'C' votes show that it's a good piece of hardware with a few minor annoyances, and that's probably an accurate description. Let's face it, very very very few people are leaving over slow DVRs and brrriiips.


Yup .. in the middle which is pretty much what I've said, have I not? And you are absolutely right. Folks aren't exactly leaving droves. Perhaps you could argue that the subscriber growth rate has slowed, but it's still upward bound. If it were so bad, folks would vote with their wallet (fanboys and haters alike).



> (Where you and I probably differ in opinion is in DirecTV's ability to fix these issues with software tweaks.)


Perhaps, but I'm pretty much a glass half full kinda guy .. what can I say :shrug: In any event, improvements are coming. Will it make every single person happy? No way .. no how. But the level of distress is definitely going to go down.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Voted A, my hr23 running fine whit few resets and no i haven't tried a Dish Network DVR and don't plan on it.Also i am not a DVR power user but for my needs it is fine.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Tom Servo said:


> If this were Verizon territory, I'd give serious considering to switching, just for the improved SD picture quality alone.


By the time they get in the SouthEast with any real play...there won't be any SD left. As for HD channels....they actually have less than DirecTV.

Many of the larger metro areas have been told dates in the 2012-2014 range for availability.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Wow, it is amazing, 124 folks voted not to vote...nearly 27% of the folks on reading this thread...almost 1/3, hummm!


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Agree, the 20hr HD recording sucks and the DVR is no work of art.
But the Picture Quality is just soooo good! The HD content will increase over time without waiting on new satellites, add into the package extras like Internet and Phone, all for a pretty good price makes it a no brainer for most people.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Oh....I think with their rinky dinky HD DVR hard drives that have alot less storage and also less HD channels too...it would be plenty of difference from where I am right now...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats because the CE guys where asked not to vote.



smiddy said:


> Wow, it is amazing, 124 folks voted not to vote...nearly 27% of the folks on reading this thread...almost 1/3, hummm!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> Agree, the 20hr HD recording sucks and the DVR is no work of art.
> 
> But the Picture Quality is just soooo good! The HD content will increase over time without waiting on new satellites...


Those 2 statements are true. Of course...you may have to wait 2-5 years to get a FIOS fiber connection to your home, depending on which part of the other 80% of the country you live in where they have no service....


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I don't have the tools or the time to get the job done, the only guy I can think of that would have the tools is Rich, he has 9 DVR's and anyone that is going to take this on would need to have every version of the DVR at home so they can verify the Bugs, if not it's going to become a complete mess as newbies with Bad installs will start listing bugs that dont really exist.

Despite what most might think, I feel the DVR is not all that bad thats why I rated it a "B" but it has taken way to long to get to this stage and the constant "one fix and one bug added" updates have been really frustrating. 
Luckily the hold off on DLB and the lack of more updates seems to be an indication to me that they are now understanding peoples frustration and are trying to get it right before doing a NR.



Doug Brott said:


> All I know is that I do not have time to manage any kind of bug list. Many folks have asked, even a few tried to step up and to it .. bottom line is that it really just not feasible. In any event. We've got the tools if you want to have a go at it.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Most of Florida might have to wait till 2040 
Hopefully we will be able to see the New Moon Landings in FIOS HD :lol:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Those 2 statements are true. Of course...you may have to wait 2-5 years to get a FIOS fiber connection to your home, depending on which part of the other 80% of the country you live in where they have no service....


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

Just when I was beginning to regret giving my DVR a 'C' because of how well it's worked this last month, I missed two recordings today because there was no signal on Tuner 1. The only channels it would tune were SD, none of the HD 99/103 channels. I swapped cables and three different BBCs to no avail, and concluded that it was the DVR acting a fool. I had to unplug it and reset everything before it began working again.

Now that it's freshly booted, the interactive content works again, which means any channel with Scoreguide is now back to being slow as molasses in January.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> There are nearly 5 times the number of 'A' votes as their are 'F' votes. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to discard either category .. There must be a reason for that bias and shouldn't that be a part of the equation. (BTW, I disagree that there is significant bias)


Well I just voted gave my R22-100 an"F" reason?Channels I Get a feature that has not worked from the beginning no matter how many "A"s are voted.Does my R22-100 record? sure,and so does my VCR.DirecTV in my view has added too many features while letting the basic DVR functions unfixed and not working right.:nono2:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Well I just voted gave my R22-100 an"F" reason?Channels I Get a feature that has not worked from the beginning no matter how many "A"s are voted.Does my R22-100 record? sure,and so does my VCR.DirecTV in my view has added too many features while letting the basic DVR functions unfixed and not working right.:nono2:


The CIG is what it is for now .. I do understand that there are some issues with it, but it's in a much better shape now than it was some number of months ago. Also, I wouldn't expect it to change much for the foreseeable future, but long term, it will be corrected.

So, giving a 'F' as a statement like this really isn't going to help much. Does it record? Does it playback? For me, those are much more important. I've always been able to find a way around any CIG issues.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> So, giving a 'F' as a statement like this really isn't going to help much. Does it record? Does it playback? For me, those are much more important. I've always been able to find a way around any CIG issues.


That's the difficulty of a poll like this... are we supposed to be grading based on "bugs", or on our satisfaction with the unit? If CIG is working the way it is intended to work, then it's not a bug, and would get an "A" in that regard. Something could be the most useless piece of consumer electronics ever released, while not having any bugs. My unit has far fewer unexplainable "glitches" than it had a year ago. It still manages to constantly frustrate me. Does it record? yes. But not everything I expect it to. Does it playback? yes. But not always without issues, and not in a way that makes it enjoyable to use (response, etc.).


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## Prince Oz (Jan 15, 2009)

I gave mine an "A". HR23. We just love it. Have not had 1 issue. Have had to reset once since January.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

DarinC said:


> That's the difficulty of a poll like this... are we supposed to be grading based on "bugs", or on our satisfaction with the unit? If CIG is working the way it is intended to work, then it's not a bug, and would get an "A" in that regard. Something could be the most useless piece of consumer electronics ever released, while not having any bugs. My unit has far fewer unexplainable "glitches" than it had a year ago. It still manages to constantly frustrate me. Does it record? yes. But not everything I expect it to. Does it playback? yes. But not always without issues, and not in a way that makes it enjoyable to use (response, etc.).


It would've seemed obvious that if there's no given criterion the only thing it can be based on is overall satisfaction...at least obvious to me anyway. :grin:

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

DarinC said:


> That's the difficulty of a poll like this... are we supposed to be grading based on "bugs", or on our satisfaction with the unit? If CIG is working the way it is intended to work, then it's not a bug, and would get an "A" in that regard. Something could be the most useless piece of consumer electronics ever released, while not having any bugs. *My unit has far fewer unexplainable "glitches" than it had a year ago.* It still manages to constantly frustrate me. Does it record? yes. But not everything I expect it to. Does it playback? yes. But not always without issues, and not in a way that makes it enjoyable to use (response, etc.).


Just pointing out that say 'F' because of CIG and doing so to make a statement .. well, that's probably going to lead to frustration more than anything else. But if Jhon69 wants to vote that way, then I got no problem with that.

as for the bolded part above .. The system is better this year than it was last year and expect that trend to continue. Will your frustration be totally erased? Perhaps, over time, but I think you'll find that perception can sometimes lag behind reality .. especially when that initial perception is tainted by a poor experience.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> The system is better this year than it was last year and expect that trend to continue.


I understand and appreciate that, but the HR2x has been around for three years now. That is a LONG time for consumer electronics. I honestly can't think of a single device I use or have ever used on a daily basis that continued to have so many problems for this long of a period. By the time they get this whole DVR coding thing down pat, the concept of recording broadcast television is going to be passe. When is DirecTV going to learn that such things are best left to more competent 3rd parties? :bang


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The CIG is what it is for now .. I do understand that there are some issues with it, but it's in a much better shape now than it was some number of months ago. Also, I wouldn't expect it to change much for the foreseeable future, but long term, it will be corrected.
> 
> So, giving a 'F' as a statement like this really isn't going to help much. Does it record? Does it playback? For me, those are much more important. I've always been able to find a way around any CIG issues.


Now see there's the difference that's the question you needed to title the thread "Does your HR2x and R22 record? Does it playback? Grade:A.

Of course I don't use series links or prioritizer just highlight the program in the guide and press"R"works excellent.It's the word "performance" that kills the HR2xs and R22s grade and causes all the other features and operations to be entered in the grade.And by highlighting the program in the guide and pressing "R" takes away the CIG issue.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

DarinC said:


> I understand and appreciate that, but the HR2x has been around for three years now. That is a LONG time for consumer electronics. I honestly can't think of a single device I use or have ever used on a daily basis that continued to have so many problems for this long of a period. By the time they get this whole DVR coding thing down pat, the concept of recording broadcast television is going to be passe. When is DirecTV going to learn that such things are best left to more competent 3rd parties? :bang


Not DirecTV it was Rupert Murdoch that started it.So I guess for you it's going to be a long cold winter?.Hopefully your and everyone elses problems will improve.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats pretty much how I feel.



DarinC said:


> -snip-
> 
> My unit has far fewer unexplainable "glitches" than it had a year ago. It still manages to constantly frustrate me. Does it record? yes. But not everything I expect it to. Does it playback? yes. But not always without issues, and not in a way that makes it enjoyable to use (response, etc.).


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## jollygrunt (Apr 13, 2005)

over the last couple of weeks, I've noticed a marked decrease in the overall speed accessing & navigating through the menus as well as during channel changing. Also, I too have had occasianal briips on various channels.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Edited with my issues. I voted C.



bdcottle said:


> 1. Audio brrrrip and drop.
> 2. Channels I get problems. Starting to think they will never fix this.
> 4. Slow gui.
> 5. Inconsistent remote response.
> ...


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