# Name based recording?



## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I know someone mentioned this awhile back but do the current DVRs have any type of name based recording ability?? 

Tonight (Monday), Fox had a special of American Idol and my 508 receiver recorded it. I do not recall marking it to record nor did I set a timer to record Fox on Mondays from 7-8pm. I thought it was odd that the show recorded. The show normally is on Fox Tuesdays and Wednesdays and I do have timers for those nights.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Must have been a fluke. There is no NBR in today's software. When that happens, you'll see plenty of fanfare regarding the bugs.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Maybe your wife set the timer?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

There is limited name based recording with the older Dishplayers (7100/7200) Unfortunately there is no way I can stop it from recording the shows I don't like that have the same name. Law & Order. I like Law & Order. I like Law & Order: CI, I do not like Law & Order SVU. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to tell my unit to record the first every week two without it recording the third. 

See ya
Tony


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I wonder how Name Based Recording is going to handle channels that have multiple time feeds such as Disney, Nickelodeon, SuperStations, Networks, HBO, etc. Would it record it on the east coast feed then record it on the west coast feed 3 hours later and so forth? 

I also wonder if Name Based Recording is going to be a major announcement I heard someone talk about on the message boards.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> I wonder how Name Based Recording is going to handle channels that have multiple time feeds such as Disney, Nickelodeon, SuperStations, Networks, HBO, etc. Would it record it on the east coast feed then record it on the west coast feed 3 hours later and so forth?
> 
> I also wonder if Name Based Recording is going to be a major announcement I heard someone talk about on the message boards.


Dish will have Name Based Recordings.
It will be similar to "Name that tune", where you will look at the timer recording, and have to guess WTF you recorded


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

i hope it is some waht like tivos name based where it no if it is first run and if you have it


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Maybe the deal with the TV Guide Channel / Gemstar company will help us achieve the name based recording feature. I think they will use something like the VCR plus numbers and tie them to each show in order for the show to be recorded. Of course there will also be needed a sub menu along with the first one to decide the same features as Tivo does ; first run vs repeats etc. Other wise your hard drive will fill up with every rerun and show with that name. ( God help you if you record shows like "Friends.")

Of course my other guess would be that Charlie will finally pay Tivo and we will get Tivo software downloaded to Dish Dvr receivers. Maybe that is the big announcement that they are going to announce on the Tech Chat.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

They can't even get their own software to work correctly. How succesful do you think they'll be attempting to implement Tivo's?


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I always thought that was the point . Dish can't get THEIR software to work so Tivo ,which does work ,would be easy to download right? 

I think most of the time the receivers that Dish makes do not work properly due to software limitations, hence the 2 years of software updates to get the 721 up to par. Supposedly this week or next the long awaited Dish home will finally be downloaded to the 721. I wouldn't think that Tivo software could be that hard to download even by Dish engineers.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Isn't Tivo already suing echostar over their pvr's? If they try to implement a nbr scheme similar to Tivo's I don't think that would help echostar's case.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I don't think it would be a straight download to get it to work ona different platfoem. Try getting OSX to work on your PC. It could be done but it would be a significant project.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

skaeight said:


> Isn't Tivo already suing echostar over their pvr's? If they try to implement a nbr scheme similar to Tivo's I don't think that would help echostar's case.


 That might be the very reason why Charlie would buy the software to settle the lawsuit. He just did the same with the Gemstar / TV Guide lawsuit. That is why we are getting the TV Guide channel added to Dish's guide soon. This would be the best thing he could do in order to make all sides happy. He already charges the dvr fee so he might as well give us something comparable for the money. Look at the Directv hd tivo. It works from the get go and even works for ota channel recording. Can you imagine a dish 921 that works with Tivo an actually records ota?


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> He already charges the dvr fee so he might as well give us something comparable for the money.


Yes, but right now he gets to keep the money.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the features and stability of the TiVo software, but I don't see it in the cards (a TiVo based E* PVR).

What E* might be forced to do is pay a royality to dismiss the lawsuit (multiple play/record streams) as well as licensing for name based recording.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

You can't patent a feature, only the implementation of that feature. Windows and Mac OS are a perfect example. Or, diet soft drinks. 

Tivo couldn't sue Dish for having name based recording, unless they used actual Tivo technology to provide it.


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## TedKaz (Mar 1, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> I don't think it would be a straight download to get it to work ona different platfoem. Try getting OSX to work on your PC. It could be done but it would be a significant project.


But aren't both Tivo and Dish PVR both based on LINUX?
If they are it shouldn't be that difficult to port over.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Maybe the deal with the TV Guide Channel / Gemstar company will help us achieve the name based recording feature. I think they will use something like the VCR plus numbers and tie them to each show in order for the show to be recorded. Of course there will also be needed a sub menu along with the first one to decide the same features as Tivo does ; first run vs repeats etc. Other wise your hard drive will fill up with every rerun and show with that name. ( God help you if you record shows like "Friends.")
> 
> Of course my other guess would be that Charlie will finally pay Tivo and we will get Tivo software downloaded to Dish Dvr receivers. Maybe that is the big announcement that they are going to announce on the Tech Chat.


Sure oh and hell froze over too


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

skaeight said:


> Isn't Tivo already suing echostar over their pvr's? If they try to implement a nbr scheme similar to Tivo's I don't think that would help echostar's case.


But then again it could be a settlement and tivo needs subs


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

garypen said:


> You can't patent a feature, only the implementation of that feature. Windows and Mac OS are a perfect example. Or, diet soft drinks.
> 
> Tivo couldn't sue Dish for having name based recording, unless they used actual Tivo technology to provide it.


Its the process in the hardware and software something about the way it records direct from stream but i dont know specifics


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## reedl (May 10, 2002)

garypen said:


> You can't patent a feature, only the implementation of that feature. Windows and Mac OS are a perfect example. Or, diet soft drinks.
> 
> Tivo couldn't sue Dish for having name based recording, unless they used actual Tivo technology to provide it.


Actually look at the USPTO Website: http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm a Utility patent is a "new and useful process" which can cover Named based recording.

For example the presentation of Gemstar's guide is not the programming of it, but the presentation of it.

Reedl


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Windows, Mac OS, Gnome for Linux, etc. have already set the precedent of not being able to sue over a feature, which is what NBR is. If the underlying technology is different, and the presentation of it is different too, then Tivo cannot sue over NBR. (They can sue, of course, but would not win.) 

Digeo's Moxi, has NBR, I believe.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think the VCR+ type system using numbers for each episode would be a good choice. They could implement a code system where the repeats get a code added to the end so that it does not get recorded and only the ones without the added code gets recorded.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

TedKaz said:


> But aren't both Tivo and Dish PVR both based on LINUX?
> If they are it shouldn't be that difficult to port over.


Just because they both use Linux as a base OS does not mean that the port would be easy. Each of these has special drivers and chipsets that might not be supported by the other technology. Yes the fact that they both use Linux is a good thing , but it does not necessarly mean that a port would not be difficult.


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## jpoklop (Jan 20, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Can you imagine a dish 921 that works with Tivo an actually records ota?


I can. It is called the Direct HR10-250. It is shipping and has minimal bugs reported so far. You get 2 satellite and 2 OTA tuners plus local OTA guide information.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

garypen said:


> Windows, Mac OS, Gnome for Linux, etc. have already set the precedent of not being able to sue over a feature, which is what NBR is. If the underlying technology is different, and the presentation of it is different too, then Tivo cannot sue over NBR. (They can sue, of course, but would not win.)
> 
> Digeo's Moxi, has NBR, I believe.


From my understanding patent's are not just for implemenation of a feature.

You can also patent a process or feature (1-click ordering).

I know that patent law is incrediable complicated and I also know that companies are pushing hard to increase there patient portfolio. I also know that they want patents written as vague as possible to cover as much area as can be.

So I am not sure that making the statment that Tivo cannot sue over NBR would be correct.

Example: Amazon holds the Patent for "One-Click ordering" patent number 6,029,141. This is obviously a not implemenation but process. NBR could be considered a process in Patent terms.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

garypen said:


> Windows, Mac OS, Gnome for Linux, etc. have already set the precedent of not being able to sue over a feature, which is what NBR is. If the underlying technology is different, and the presentation of it is different too, then Tivo cannot sue over NBR. (They can sue, of course, but would not win.)
> 
> Digeo's Moxi, has NBR, I believe.


just like harley could not patant the way they make there bike sound


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

jpoklop said:


> I can. It is called the Direct HR10-250. It is shipping and has minimal bugs reported so far. You get 2 satellite and 2 OTA tuners plus local OTA guide information.


It doesn't support DishPro, though. Or my DISH Network subscription, for that matter...


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Example: Amazon holds the Patent for "One-Click ordering" patent number 6,029,141. This is obviously a not implemenation but process. NBR could be considered a process in Patent terms.


And how many successful lawsuits has Amazon launched against pirates of "one-click ordering"?

As long as Dish or anybody else doesn't call their name based recording "Season Pass", I'd bet a dollar they'll be safe. (as long as they don't use Tivo's technology, of course.)


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Jacob S said:


> I think the VCR+ type system using numbers for each episode would be a good choice. They could implement a code system where the repeats get a code added to the end so that it does not get recorded and only the ones without the added code gets recorded.


whitch is what will hapen since they settled and now own gemstar but i tghink the codes will be transparent to us i think say you pick frsier it will have acode embedded in it and go from there


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

WeeJavaDude said:


> From my understanding patent's are not just for implemenation of a feature.
> 
> You can also patent a process or feature (1-click ordering).
> 
> ...


Nikola Tesla invented the radio (Patent No. 645576) That didn't stop Marconi from ripping him off and claiming it for himself. And it doesn't stop thousands of manufacturers from building radios.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If a VCR+ code type of system is used it could be implemented in several ways such as.....

> Each episode could have the same code if the receiver could prevent the episodes with the same code from being recorded

> Each airing of an episode could have a different code of that episode but the reruns of those episodes could have a number at the end (number/letter/code within a code) that would indicate it as a rerun, and the DVR system could be programmed to not DVR shows ending in that number specified as a rerun

> Each airing of an episode could have its own unique code and the DVR system would have to recognize the codes that are first run shows and which ones are reruns. (This would be more complicated than having one number/letter/code within a code indicating that it is a rerun as previously described above)

Each show, episode and channel could have its own code then an additional code indicated if it is a rerun or not and another one indicating the time for it to air. For example, a code being 23099996666R could be a show on channel 230 and the show numbered as 9999, 6666 being the episode and R as a rerun so that show could be one that would automatically not be recorded since it has R on the end. To distinguish this from one being DVR'ed by time and not name based it could have a code such as 2301800MF which would indicate channel 230, 1800 indicating 6:00 PM and MF would indicate Monday through Friday. The show, if having an R on the end of it, could be chosen to either be recorded or not recorded from a menu.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2004)

Don't forget the most obvious way of doing it:

99% of programs list the episode title in the first line of the description. If the episode title matches an episode title for an episode currently on the unit (or recently deleted), it won't record it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Tyralak said:


> Nikola Tesla invented the radio (Patent No. 645576) That didn't stop Marconi from ripping him off and claiming it for himself. And it doesn't stop thousands of manufacturers from building radios.


Today is different times for sure. Patents are used by compainies in much different ways then back then. Companies are building huge patient portfolios as a means to protect themselves and as a weapon against competition. It is no more about producting and idea, it is more about attacking the competition and defending against competition. Why do you think Foundry Networks acquired the company that had the patient for JPEG. It was not to get product or team. It was so they could use that patient and sue other companies for using it.

I am not familar with the case and I never said that companies will not implement the idea. It has been done countless times. However, in todays age, I feel companies take much more into account the possibility of being suid for implementing a certain concept.

Know that they allow companies to patient process (One button click). Things have become very scary and very complicated.


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