# Sticky  DBSTalk First Look: DISH Hopper and Joey Whole Home HD DVR System



## James Long

*Hopper and Joey First Look*

*Click here for a downloadable PDF*

*DISH's Hopper Whole-Home HD DVR*
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DISH's new Hopper Whole-Home HD DVR is more than a new top of the line DVR, it is the centerpiece of a system that allows customers to experience high definition and 3D television throughout their home. The Hopper / Joey system is intended to replace every receiver in the home. In the next few pages I will introduce you to Hopper and Joey and discuss how the system measures up to that goal.

The key features of the Hopper / Joey system are the ability to share HD content across standard coax cable throughout the home and Prime-Time Anytime capture of all major network programming every night of the week using a single tuner (HD local channels only). The Hopper works with the existing Sling Adapter and supports DISH's standard OnDemand services, including 3D and 1080p titles. DISH is currently selling systems of one or two Hoppers and up to four Joeys (second hopper required for four Joeys). Leased systems require professional installation. For new customers a single Hopper and up to three Joeys are installed for free.

*Basic Specs:*
Hopper:
Input: One "dpX" feed from node.
3 Satellite Tuners
No OTA tuners (future)
HDMI and Component HD outputs
Composite SD outputs
Digital Audio output
Connections for two Ethernet cables, three USB devices (one on the front panel) and a phone line.
2 TB hard drive (2000 hours of content) with 500 GB (250 hours) reserved for customer use.


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## James Long

*DISH's Joey Receiver*
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Joey Receivers ("Companion to Hopper Whole-Home HD DVR" as DISH calls them) are client receivers. With no satellite or OTA tuners in the box, they rely on the Hoppers for content. Joeys are small recievers, easily held in one hand. Joeys come with a base plate that allows the Joey to stand out of the way behind other equipment or the plate can be used to mount the Joey on any suitable surface.

Joeys receive their signal over standard RG-59 or RG-6 coax cable connected to the central node. RG-6 is required for long runs or if the coax has a splitter or tap between the node and the Joey. DISH uses MoCA to transmit HD signals between the Hoppers and Joeys on the system.

Joeys can be placed up to 200 cable feet away from the furthest Hopper. The Hopper can be placed up to 200 cable feet away from the dish. No other signals can share the cable in a Hopper/Joey system.

Basic Specs:
Joey: One "home video network" feed from network
No tuners
HDMI HD output
Composite SD outputs
Digital Audio output
Connections for one Ethernet cable and one USB device

*What is MoCA?*
The Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA®) is the universal standard for home entertainment networking. MoCA is the only home entertainment networking standard in use by all three pay TV segments---cable, satellite and IPTV. The current MoCA specification can support multiple streams of HD video, deliver up to 175 Mbps net throughputs and offer an unparalleled user experience via parameterized quality of service (PQoS).


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## James Long

*Preinstall*
My first DVR was a Echostar Model 501. Introduced by DISH in 2001, I purchased my 501 in 2004 and after using it wondered how I lived without a DVR. The 501 came with an RF remote, and I wired my 501 as a "whole home" DVR. I installed in my 501 in the basement, combining the channel 4 output of the receiver with my over the air antenna and could watch locals OTA plus my single DISH satellite feed anywhere in my house. In 2006 I added a ViP 622 to my home and it became my new "whole home" DVR (although the 501 remains in place to this day). I used the "home distribution" outputs of the ViP 622 to feed TV1 and TV2 to every set in my home on channels 52 and 54. My home cable system had all my local broadcast channels plus channel 4 for the 501 and channels 52 and 54 for the 622. I also placed the output of my home security system on channel 3, visible on all TVs in the house.

Then came Hopper, DISH's first true "whole home" DVR. Where the ViP DVRs were limited to SD TV2 outputs, Hopper and the companion Joey units put HD at every set using the same coax cables. But there is a drawback - DISH has placed the MoCA carrier used to allow the Hoppers and Joeys to talk to each other in the broadcast band on the coax. Multiplexing my OTA and in house channels is no longer possible without potentially degrading the MoCA signal. Without the ability to tune OTA sub-channels on the Hopper these sub-channels are lost. I have to watch channels delivered by DISH.

For demonstration purposes I decided to place the Hopper provided to me by DISH for this review next to my ViP 622 in my living room. This will allow me to do a side by side comparison. The Joeys have been placed in the Kitchen for my wife to use and in our bedroom. While preparing to connect the Joeys I noticed a technology gap. The outputs on the Joey are limited to SD composite RCA connectors or a HDMI connector. There is no middle ground of S-Video (SD) or component (HD). If you have a HD set at a Joey location it must have a HDMI input or it will not receive a HD signal. Since both my kitchen and bedroom TVs are SD this limitation does not affect me, although I found that one of the sets did not have RCA inputs so I had to connect the Joey through an RF modulator.

And that is my setup. A simple single HDTV home with SDTVs in two other rooms. Time to connect everything, turn it on and see how it works.

*Install*
Knowing exactly how I wanted my install done (and preferring to do the install myself) I adjusted my wiring before the installer arrived, providing two cables from my DISH (1000.4 Eastern Arc) to the solo node, one cable from the location of the node to the Hopper location (with a HDMI cable and Ethernet cable ready to connect), and one cable fed through a splitter to the two Joey locations (with the appropriate RCA connections ready to connect). And then the wait ... a morning appointment turned into afternoon. DISH has been busy!

The first step: Connect the node to the dish and host/client feeds. Then connect the Hopper to the cables in the living room and power it up. The moment of truth - would my wiring work?

Yes. I started with good wiring, RG-6 tested to 3 GHz - which is what the Hopper requires. I watched the Hopper boot for the first time in my home and automatically detect my TV via HDMI and matching the 1080i input (not defaulting to 480i). My receiver was pre-loaded with the current software (S203) before delivery, which avoided most of the setup time. I ran a check switch and found that my receiver had already been set up for my dish (1k4 Eastern Arc). The signal strengths were as good as on my 622 so I was good to go.

Before moving on to the Joeys I spent some time with the Hopper, stepping through the menus looking for familiar and unfamiliar options. The banner at the bottom of the guide advertised the "PrimeTime Anytime" feature, so I pressed "*" as suggested and enabled these recordings. More about PrimeTime Anytime later in the review.


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## James Long

*The Guide*
The guide shows three hours and six channels at a time. If the advertising banner at the bottom is turned off (a menu option) seven channels can be seen. The option of a 90 minute by five channel guide is not available. There are logos next to each channel although, as my wife noted, many of them - especially the ones that have been shrunk to place "HD" in the logo, are small. The channel numbers and names remain available next to the logos. Selecting a program in the guide and pressing info will pull up the description with a thumbnail image and record options (series or single show). Overall it is a pleasing visual display.

A new feature in the guide is the ability to expand and collapse certain channels. Channel 98 is used for "DISH Music", Channel 99 is used for "SiriusXM Music" and Channel 412 is used for "Regional Sports Networks". When selected, the channels can be expanded out to show sub-channels. This allows up to 100 channels to share a single guide channel. The downside is that the channels are no longer shown on their regular channel numbers. For example, my RSN "CSN Chicago" no longer shows in the guide as Channel 429 ... it is now Channel 412-19. Instead of typing 429 on the remote to jump straight to my RSN I can type 41219. It may take a while to become accustomed to the new numbers. (Expandable channels are also used for international programming packages.)

DISH offers Video On Demand delivered via satellite. When first connected there were no VOD movies present (as expected). After leaving the receiver overnight 12 VOD options appeared on channel 501 including three 1080p options and one 3D options. After the second night there were 21 options (five 1080p). By the end of the first week there were 49 VOD options preloaded and ready to play at a moment's notice. If one selects a 1080p event and does not have a 1080p TV the option of watching a compatible resolution is offered. VOD rentals are for a set period of time and cannot be saved to the customer portion of the hard drive. Traditional PPV channels are also available with many movies available with a "limited recording" restriction. Unless the Hopper detects the TV's HDCP some of the movies are unavailable to view. The same VOD movie options are also shown as Channel 1 unless display is disabled in the guide settings.

The guide and all receiver functions are controlled by the remote control. Multiple remotes can be paired with each Hopper or Joey and the remotes work on UHF so no line of sight is needed between the receiver and remote. A lost remote can be found by using the Remote Finder feature - press a button on the Hopper or Joey and the remote will flash it's buttons and play a tune.


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## James Long

*PrimeTime Anytime*

One new "killer feature" of the Hopper is PrimeTime Anytime. PTA (or PTAT as some prefer) allows customers to record all four of their local major network TV channels (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) each night while using only one of the receiver's three tuners. The PrimeTime Anytime feature works better than expected and not as well as expected at the same time. Although I do not watch every show on every channel the availability of a week's worth of prime time interests me. There have been times where people have mentioned a good show that was on last night that I didn't know about. Now I can go back and see what they were talking about. And the ability to use one tuner for more than one channel frees up timers for watching or recording other things. There have been times where my 622 was busy recording two local network channels and I had to push a recording on Discovery or USA Network until after midnight. Or I wanted to watch election returns while programs recorded and had to turn to a second receiver. This is a good feature - and if one doesn't like it, it can be turned off.

PrimeTime Anytime works well at capturing the programs and the feature takes into account prime time programs that exceed prime time in the guide, such as sports and awards shows. The week of this review CBS was airing NCAA basketball starting before prime time, and PTA adjusted to record the extra 30 minutes or hour of programming. However it should be noted that when the game went long on Saturday and Sunday Nights and pushed back the beginning of the next show (48 Hours Mystery and CSI:Miami, respectively) the end of the show was lost. The EPG was followed with no adjustment for the potential of sports changing the schedule.

Individual timers can be set for major network shows. Those timers will show up as "skipped" in the Daily Schedule but after recording the programs will show up outside of the PrimeTime Anytime folder, protected from the 8 day limit of PTA. Within the PTA folder, the latest 8 day's worth of programs can be sorted by name, date or rating. If there is more than one episode of a show (such as my local Fox affiliate's nightly 10pm news) selecting the program will show an episode list. Individual shows can be started from the beginning, resumed (if left in progress) or saved for viewing after the 8 day limit
of PTA. On playback the channel can be rewound before the program start time and after the program end time, up to the limit of the prime time block. If a show starts early or ends late the entire show will be available.

PTA programs can be watched while they record without using another tuner but I have found that it is better not to watch "live". Press skip back at least once to avoid a stuttering issue that I hope is fixed in a later software release. PTA records from five minutes before the beginning of prime time each night until five minutes after, defined by the beginning and end of the earliest and latest scheduled prime time show. Only the four major networks are recorded (sorry, no CW or PBS) and the feature is only available for locals carried in HD in markets with HD locals. If your market is short a network the other networks will record, if your market does not have HD locals PTA will not be available.


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## James Long

*Joeys and Whole Home Viewing*
Another "killer feature" of the Hopper is the Joey. While some form of "whole home" viewing is available through the "home distribution" outputs of previous receivers, DISH takes their "whole home" offering to the next level with the ability to stream HD and 3D signals from the Hopper unit to Joey receivers. Joeys are satellite receivers with their own receiver id and internal smart card, however they do not tune satellite signals. Joeys receive their programming over MoCA (multimedia over cable). Joey units are connected to the system through the client port of the node. The signal to a Joey can be split to serve a second Joey. The signal to the Hopper can be split using a tap to serve the Hopper and a Joey.

After my initial experience with the Hopper receiver, I turned my attention to the Joeys. These were delivered to me in sealed boxes. I opened the boxes and made the connections to the coax, AV cables and power at each Joey location. After startup the Joeys found the Hopper and displayed a "standby" screen. Being new in box, the remote control had not been paired to the receiver. This was easy to do by turning on the receiver, pressing the "system info" button on the front of the receiver, then pressing the "Sat" button on the remote. The remote played a musical alert and pairing information showed up on the screen. Remotes can be named, if desired.

Generally speaking, the Joeys unit worked well. As noted at the beginning, there is the technology gap of needing a HDMI connection for HD with composite SD being the only other option (no component output). When active Joeys will use one of the Hopper's tuners, if available. If a tuner is not available the Joey user will have the choice of joining one of the other tuners in use or watching PrimeTime Anytime On Demand or DVR content. If the Joey chooses to join one of the other tuners both units begin to work nearly simultaneously. On a shared tuner pausing at one location will pause the other location (although with a slight delay). When unpaused, the delay will be caught up and simultaneous viewing will continue.

This setup makes what one can see in a DirecTV commercial possible. A user watching a live satellite channel in one room can pause the channel, walk into another room and take that receiver's remote and choose the same channel from the list of tuners, and resume the program from the point where they left off. This is also possible on DVR content. The user in the second room can find the program in the list of recorded events, select the event and choose resume from the menu, and pick up the program from the pause point made in the other room.

For PTA events Joeys can choose any program in the PTA folder, including programs currently recording and watch live (bearing in mind the suggestion above to press "back" at least once if stuttering is noted). Hoppers and Joeys watching live PTA events do not have to watch the same channel as each other. This allows flexible viewing between the four major broadcast networks, two other satellite channels, and anything on the DVR (recorded or On Demand).

Sharing tuners works fairly well. My wife (being at one of the Joey locations) and I only noticed a couple of times where the system seemed confused. One was at the beginning of PTA when her tuner was taken to record the PTA content. While she missed any warning, her screen stayed frozen on the last image before PTA took the tuner instead of returning her Joey to the tuner select screen or an error message explaining why her channel had stopped. But overall the system is flexible and works better than previous attempts such as the 622's Home Distribution TV2 output. It is an HD output and with flexible tuners all three tuners can be used for recording or viewing or both with the Hopper and Joeys choosing any source. On the 622, if TV2 was recording something TV2 could not use the TV1 tuner - they had to wait for their tuner to be free.

Parental Controls (channel locks, ratings locks, purchase and application restrictions) are set per Hopper or Joey. If you wish to lock certain channels and ratings differently depending on where the receiver is located you can. You can also copy your settings between receivers, making it easy to set up restrictions at one location and transmit them to other receivers. (I suggest that households planning to use Parental Controls set up a password immediately and transmit it to all receivers, lest the brainy child finds a receiver unlocked and transmit those settings to a locked receiver.) Other than a copy one cannot remotely set locks.

When a program or channel is blocked by Parental Controls on one receiver and another receiver is watching it, it will show up on the tuner list as a locked program without the title.

The Hopper/Joey concept seems to work well when replacing one or two dual tuner receivers. But in homes that are accustomed to solo receivers with dedicated tuners the number of tuners may need to be managed. Some early adopters have chosen to pay hundreds of dollars extra and get two Hoppers before getting three Joeys, just to keep the tuners count high. (As of this writing, Joeys can only be connected to one Hopper. But a software update is expected that will allow two Hoppers to share six tuners seamlessly.)

*Joeys and SD Television*
DISH is now selling Hopper/Joey whole house solutions without allowing customers to keep other receivers active in their homes. This means that if you have a SD location you will need to replace that receiver with a Joey. This is a good idea when it comes to the concept of Whole Home Viewing, but the Hopper / Joey GUI is designed for HD sets. The font sizes may be difficult to read on a SD resolution set. This is where having the 90 minute / 5 channel guide of the 622 would come in handy. (It would also make the receiver more user friendly for those who are sight impaired.)


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## James Long

*Final Thoughts*
Overall the Hopper Whole-Home HD DVR System and companion Joey receivers are well designed devices that are suitable for the purpose of watching HD television. As with any new product release, there are some minor bugs that have been noted by the members of DBSTalk. The system is based on the mature ViP-922 product making the Hopper / Joey system more stable on day one. This review remains positive with the expectation that DISH will work to solve these problems.

This review covers only the beginning of using the new Hopper / Joey system. Other features include apps that are are available on the menus for news, weather, sports and games as well as for managing your account. The Hopper also works with the existing Sling Adapter which allows viewing of your DVR content on devices on your home network or wherever the Internet allows. (Features that use the Internet may vary in quality due to differences in ISPs.)

While I did not have any issues with my install, I believe that this was due to the extra care that I put in to preparing my home before the installer arrived and the unique care that my DISH installer took to do the initial software downloads and activation before visiting my home. Customers ordering a system, especially in the early days of deployment, should allow extra time for install. The good news is that once the install is complete and the Hopper is in use I believe you will enjoy using this receiver.

My first week with the Hopper and Joeys went smoothly. I was able to enjoy watching TV on the Hopper in the living room while my wife used the Joey in the Kitchen to watch what she wanted to watch. I enjoyed sharing the receiver when I wanted and using picture in picture when I wanted without needing to shift the receiver into a different mode using a front panel button.

The "killer application" of PrimeTime Anytime has led to finding more shows to watch that I would not have seen with the limited tuners on my 622. And although the number of shows available in a week may be overwhelming, the ability to set timers for prime time shows that provide links to the programs from outside the PrimeTime Anytime folder and save the programs until deleted (or a selectable maximum number of programs are recorded) helps me manage my television viewing.

With my progression from 501 (single tuner DVR) to 622 (two tuner HD DVR) and now Hopper / Joey I believe DISH is on the right path and this new system is a welcome addition to my home.


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## James Long

*Image Gallery*








Above: Installation
The solo node is used in a single Hopper system to connect the dish to the Hopper receiver and the Joeys to the Hopper receivers. Taps are used to split a host feed from the node and allow it to serve one Hopper and one Joey. The connectors are color coded to make connections easier. Blue is satellite signal only. Orange is MoCA signal only. Purple is the combined satellite / MoCA signal. Terminators (upper right) must be used on any unused splitter or tap outputs.









Above: The Hopper









Above: The Joey
Each Joey comes with a remote identical to the Hopper unit, connection cables (not shown) and a stand/wall mount that allows the user to
stand the Joey on end or to mount it horizontally or vertically on a cabinet, wall or any other surface one doesn't mind putting screw holes in. Screws with wall anchors are included. The Joey receiver is small, just slightly larger than the popular TR-40 digital TV conversion tuner sold by DISH / Echostar.


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## Sharkie_Fan

Nice work, guys.

One question. You mentioned the ability to join a program on the joey. Can multiple joey's join the same program, or only 1 at a time. Or, put another way, if I have a hopper and 3 joeys, can all 4 TVs be tuned to the same recording at the same time? I don't know that I'd ever do that, but I can envision a situation where 2 joeys want to watch the same recording or live program.


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## steff3

Very nice!!!!! Thanks.


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## James Long

Sharkie_Fan said:


> Nice work, guys.
> 
> One question. You mentioned the ability to join a program on the joey. Can multiple joey's join the same program, or only 1 at a time. Or, put another way, if I have a hopper and 3 joeys, can all 4 TVs be tuned to the same recording at the same time? I don't know that I'd ever do that, but I can envision a situation where 2 joeys want to watch the same recording or live program.


Yes, multiple Joeys can join a live feed. It gets odd when someone pauses and then the whole house comes to a pause. But the system lets you share the feed.

Sharing a recording is separate - each receiver having its own playback control.


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## dclaryjr

A couple questions. Does the Hopper have an OTA tuner for HD, and does it work with a Sling adapter? TIA.


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## fourhokiefans

Good review James. My experience has been very good. I live in a four person household and would have liked at least four tuners in the unit.


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## James Long

dclaryjr said:


> A couple questions. Does the Hopper have an OTA tuner for HD, and does it work with a Sling adapter? TIA.


There is no OTA tuner at this time (planned for later this year).
Yes, it works with a Sling adapter.


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## krowlz

dclaryjr said:


> A couple questions. Does the Hopper have an OTA tuner for HD, and does it work with a Sling adapter? TIA.


It does not support OTA but it does support the sling adapter


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## djm3801

Great write up! I was looking at U-Verse for a second home I have but Hopper seems to have all I need at a good price point. While new, I have not heard good things abotu u-Verse.


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## dclaryjr

James Long said:


> There is no OTA tuner at this time (planned for later this year).
> Yes, it works with a Sling adapter.


Thanks! I'm thinking of returning to Dish after two years with D*--this is an enticing piece of equipment.


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## brunnegd

Interesting description, but I would prefer to read a manual covering hookup and operation of both the hopper and joey, to fully understand how the system works. Can anyone direct me to an online posting of the manuals?
Also, since the hopper does not have an OTA input, I can still hook directly to the TV and switch the TV input to get the local subchannels not carried by DISH.


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## Alebob911

Nice work! Lots of great information.


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## kgm32

fourhokiefans said:


> Good review James. My experience has been very good. I live in a four person household and would have liked at least four tuners in the unit.


So do I and seem to be a limitation if I am understanding this correctly with this setup if you had 4 tvs you could not have one person watching say syfy, another disney, a third fx and a fourth ESPN? DTVs up coming HMC DVR with 3 single tuner HD recievers seems like a better solution when it becomes available.

Please feel free to correct my assumption if I am wrong on how the Hopper/Joeys work.


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## James Long

brunnegd said:


> Interesting description, but I would prefer to read a manual covering hookup and operation of both the hopper and joey, to fully understand how the system works. Can anyone direct me to an online posting of the manuals?


DISH has the manuals on their website - Look for "Hopper" under Quick Reference and Receiver Manuals.
http://www.mydish.com/Support/manuals



> Also, since the hopper does not have an OTA input, I can still hook directly to the TV and switch the TV input to get the local subchannels not carried by DISH.


Correct. You will need a separate antenna feed to the TV (TV signals cannot be combined with the DISH Hopper feeds).



kgm32 said:


> So do I and seem to be a limitation if I am understanding this correctly with this setup if you had 4 tvs you could not have one person watching say syfy, another disney, a third fx and a fourth ESPN?


Correct ... three tuners in a Hopper is a limitation. Many users in our forum have chosen to get two Hoppers in order to keep their tuner count up.

The shared PTA tuner may help in the evening if two or more of the TVs had people wanting to watch major network programming. DISH advertises it as "six tuners" and it can serve that way if you accept four tuners are the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX).

I'm looking forward to seeing how OTA is integrated.


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## Smuuth

Great review, James!


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## kilroyc

djm3801 said:


> Great write up! I was looking at U-Verse for a second home I have but Hopper seems to have all I need at a good price point. While new, I have not heard good things abotu u-Verse.


i was a long time Dish subscriber, and have no real bad things to say about their offering. at&t came into our area and offered a fantastic acquisition deal with no contract. i was basically ready to jump ship because of multiple DVR failures (and losing all of the content).

all in all, i like u-verse a little better than Dish and have no plans on going back.

* dish picture quality is slightly better than u-verse
* u-verse DVR user interface on on-screen menu is definitely nicer
* found hardware performance to be better with u-verse
* like my channel line up better w/ at&t

Glad Dish is bringing the whole home DVR into the fold. I am a fan of theirs, and enjoyed being a customer of theirs. Hope folks find it meets their expectations.


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## 356B

I'm getting my new Hopper Joey system tomorrow. My HD experience started with the vip622 then a vip722K and the infamous vip922. Once the buggy 922 settled I rather enjoyed it, but I must say at times it was tiresome. I'm hoping for a better product out of the box with the Hopper/Joey. Nice job on the essay and review.


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## Stuart Sweet

James Long and his team did an exceptional job. Well done, sirs!


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## Tiki God

Hi First time poster. I have 5 TVs and am having a 2 Hopper/3 Joey system (i think) installed on Friday. One of the TV's is in a spare bedroom that I hardly use so I don't really need unique programming for that room. As it stands now I have and older PVR unit and it's split between the bedroom and the kitchen so the same programming can be watched on both screens. Is it possible to split a Joey the same way? Or a hopper? If I can eliminate the monthly fee for one of the Joeys it would be great. I'm not tech savvy when it comes to this stuff so please forgive any of my ignorance.


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## Alan Gordon

Great First Look...

I enjoyed reading it immensely! 

~Alan


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## James Long

Tiki God said:


> Hi First time poster. I have 5 TVs and am having a 2 Hopper/3 Joey system (i think) installed on Friday. One of the TV's is in a spare bedroom that I hardly use so I don't really need unique programming for that room. As it stands now I have and older PVR unit and it's split between the bedroom and the kitchen so the same programming can be watched on both screens. Is it possible to split a Joey the same way? Or a hopper? If I can eliminate the monthly fee for one of the Joeys it would be great. I'm not tech savvy when it comes to this stuff so please forgive any of my ignorance.


You will have to take care of the split yourself, but yes ... a Hopper or Joey can send the same feed to more than one TV. If the second set is a SD TV adding an RF modulator to the Hopper/Joey and a separate cable to the second set should not be hard - and with all remotes being UHF you don't have to worry about infrared extenders.


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## Tiki God

Thanks for the quick response, James!


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## treecastle

Nice job and very well done!


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## ClearCom

Have a curious question.
The Joey's do not have the ability to watch live TV, correct? They can only watch was has been recorded. So in essence if a bedroom TV is connected using a Joey, that TV cannot see any live broadcasts?

If so that is a major drawback, IMO. 
Our simple set-up now is a 722 on two TV's. We are thinking of upgrading to the Hopper/Joey to run a third TV.


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## lparsons21

ClearCom said:


> Have a curious question.
> The Joey's do not have the ability to watch live TV, correct? They can only watch was has been recorded. So in essence if a bedroom TV is connected using a Joey, that TV cannot see any live broadcasts?
> 
> If so that is a major drawback, IMO.
> Our simple set-up now is a 722 on two TV's. We are thinking of upgrading to the Hopper/Joey to run a third TV.


The Joey can do live TV, but it uses a tuner in the Hopper to do it. Excluding PTAT, you can watch 3 live events at a time, one on the Hopper and the other two on the two Joeys.

In the case of PTAT, you could watch anything that it is recording slightly delayed.


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## mosquitop

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that even after all these years of mass adoption of cable and satellite systems with gobs of channels for every type of programming, a satellite receiver is designed to record the primetime from the 4 broadcast networks? Seems like things have come full circle in a way....

Nice review -- it did answer all my questions in one place!


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## mdavej

Great job. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.


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## dmspen

Some questions...
If I'm watching a recorded event via Joey in the bedroom and pause/stop, then go into the kitchen, can I go to DISH on my iPad and pick up where I left off? Yes I have a Sling adapter. (This is one of the wifes current complaints!). 

I think the answer is Yes?

What about EHDs? Connect only to Hopper and accessible via Joey? Since there's 2 USBs and an eSata connector on the back of the Hopper, can you connect multiple EHDs? 

What's the purpose of the USB port on the Joey? 
What is the purpose of two Ethernet ports on the Joey and the ethernet port on the Joey if they use MOCA?

Will an EHD from my 722k now work with the Hopper?

Interestingly enought there is no Joey manual on the DISH website. The basic connectivity and usage mentioned in the Hopper manual says nothing about the ethernet or USB ports on the Joey.


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## tblankenship

Thanks for the great review. I'll be waiting for an OTA version.


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## Stevie

Was wondering when DISH was going to step forward with something like this.


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## ITSCdanimal

Great review bro!

I have a question - I have a ViP622 with a 750GB hard drive connected to the USB port, which is basically full. Will I be able to view all of my recorded content from the hard drive if I get the new hopper system? Thanks!!!


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## P Smith

ITSCdanimal said:


> Great review bro!
> 
> I have a question - I have a ViP622 with a 750GB hard drive connected to the USB port, which is basically full. *Will I be able to view all of my recorded content from the hard drive if I get the new hopper system? * Thanks!!!


Right here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=203723


----------



## jaycruce

Great review! Thanks for time and effort.


----------



## caam1

Yes, an external USB drive from a 622/722 will work with the Hopper (drives used with a 211 will not). I have a 2TB drive that I used on a 622 and it works great on the Hopper. It is much faster to access the drive on Hopper than it was on the 622. Some people have had EHD problems with the Hopper, but mine is working great.


----------



## gax279

Found this forum off of AVSForum.com and I'm glad I did!

I've seen a few commercials and wasn't sure what Hopper and Joey were all about, but now I know. 

I have a few questions, but first, here is some background on my set-up:

622 in the main/family room
211K in the kitchen
612 in the basement.

Note the 622 also sends a signal to the tv in the spare bedroom.

All of the equipment is leased.

None of the equipment is connected to Dish via a phone jack, or connected to the internet (we stream off of Vudu or Apple TV).

All 4 of my TVs are HD, and connected via HDMI.

In the summer, I sometimes take the 40" LCD from the spare bedroom and move it outside to the deck to watch baseball, football, etc. In order to do this, I have an HDMI splitter box off of the 211K in the kitchen and a 25' HDMI cable strung out the kitchen window and connect to the TV directly. It works, albeit it's not pretty. 

That's why I'm thinking the H & Js may be a good option for me.

So my questions...
1. Does the Hopper and Joey system utilize the existing coax wiring/cable jacks? Basically unplug the old boxes, plug in the new, and good to go?

2. In my house, I could put the Hopper in the family room, Joey #1 in the kitchen, Joey #2 in the basement, and Joey #3 could float between the spare bedroom and deck, correct?

3. Is there a wireless broadband option for the streaming content. If not, I can use a ethernet powerline adapter...I'd like to take advantage of the streaming features.

4. In looking at the Dish Network site and reading their H & J propaganda, it says _Call 800-333-DISH to upgrade your equipment. Fee(s) will apply._

I'm going to try and call on my way home from work tonight, but for those that have upgraded, what were the "fees," if any?

Thanks again-
DB


----------



## n-spring

James, you mentioned that PTAT can "hijack" a tuner when it kicks in. I think this might have happened to me last night. At 6:55pm CDT, the channel I was watching froze, the Hopper stopped responding to the remote, and then eventually crashed/rebooted itself. I don't know which tuner the Hopper was currently using when this happened. I was also recording a show on HBO when PTAT started.

I've noticed that PTAT in the timer list always claims the same tuner. Also, timers claim a tuner at the time it is created. This is different than what I'm used to on the DirecTV DVRs. Timers are not tied to any tuner when they're created. They just use whichever tuner is free to start recording the event at the set time.


----------



## domingos35

gax279 said:


> Found this forum off of AVSForum.com and I'm glad I did!
> 
> I've seen a few commercials and wasn't sure what Hopper and Joey were all about, but now I know.
> 
> I have a few questions, but first, here is some background on my set-up:
> 
> 622 in the main/family room
> 211K in the kitchen
> 612 in the basement.
> 
> Note the 622 also sends a signal to the tv in the spare bedroom.
> 
> All of the equipment is leased.
> 
> None of the equipment is connected to Dish via a phone jack, or connected to the internet (we stream off of Vudu or Apple TV).
> 
> All 4 of my TVs are HD, and connected via HDMI.
> 
> In the summer, I sometimes take the 40" LCD from the spare bedroom and move it outside to the deck to watch baseball, football, etc. In order to do this, I have an HDMI splitter box off of the 211K in the kitchen and a 25' HDMI cable strung out the kitchen window and connect to the TV directly. It works, albeit it's not pretty.
> 
> That's why I'm thinking the H & Js may be a good option for me.
> 
> So my questions...
> 1. Does the Hopper and Joey system utilize the existing coax wiring/cable jacks? Basically unplug the old boxes, plug in the new, and good to go?
> 
> 2. In my house, I could put the Hopper in the family room, Joey #1 in the kitchen, Joey #2 in the basement, and Joey #3 could float between the spare bedroom and deck, correct?
> 
> 3. Is there a wireless broadband option for the streaming content. If not, I can use a ethernet powerline adapter...I'd like to take advantage of the streaming features.
> 
> 4. In looking at the Dish Network site and reading their H & J propaganda, it says _Call 800-333-DISH to upgrade your equipment. Fee(s) will apply._
> 
> I'm going to try and call on my way home from work tonight, but for those that have upgraded, what were the "fees," if any?
> 
> Thanks again-
> DB


depends on your payment history amongst other things.
most customers looking to upgrade will pay $100 for 1 hopper and 3 joeys


----------



## domingos35

n-spring said:


> James, you mentioned that PTAT can "hijack" a tuner when it kicks in. I think this might have happened to me last night. At 6:55pm CDT, the channel I was watching froze, the Hopper stopped responding to the remote, and then eventually crashed/rebooted itself. I don't know which tuner the Hopper was currently using when this happened. I was also recording a show on HBO when PTAT started.
> 
> I've noticed that PTAT in the timer list always claims the same tuner. Also, timers claim a tuner at the time it is created. This is different than what I'm used to on the DirecTV DVRs. Timers are not tied to any tuner when they're created. They just use whichever tuner is free to start recording the event at the set time.


timers do not claim a tuner when they are created,they will use any tuner available at the time the recording starts


----------



## jjanthony

Will the OTA module I have in my VIP922 work/fit in the the hopper?


----------



## James Long

jjanthony said:


> Will the OTA module I have in my VIP922 work/fit in the the hopper?


Unfortunately not. The Hopper currently has no OTA support. There are no slots for a 922 style module. It appears DISH's solution will be via USB.


----------



## melkins

Took my guy 7 hours to install, also had two other trucks show up to help him. I have 1 hopper and 3 Joey's. I love it!!!! The greatest feature is the built in remote control feature on the Hopper, it will automatically set up your hopper to work with your DVD player and home AV receiver. No more looking for remote control codes!!!


----------



## komondor

My biggest issue is the lack of tuners and cost for a Joey and 3 hoppers cost lots more than 2 DVRs and has one less tuner


----------



## n-spring

domingos35 said:


> timers do not claim a tuner when they are created,they will use any tuner available at the time the recording starts


If that's true, then why is there a colored icon on the timer indicating which tuner the timer will use?


----------



## patmurphey

komondor said:


> My biggest issue is the lack of tuners and cost for a Joey and 3 hoppers cost lots more than 2 DVRs and has one less tuner


2 VIP DVRs don't run 4 HD TVs. If tuners are an issue 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys have the same monthly fee as 1h/3j.


----------



## 722921

Somebody PM me when OTA is up and working...


----------



## skatingrocker17

It looks really cool but I looked into switching from DTV and it seems pretty expensive for me to make the switch.


----------



## gax279

I called Dish and they answered questions 2-4 for me.

*James*, or others that have had it installed, can you answer my 1st question?

Dish was not able to, or at least I couldn't understand his answer. I ask because 1 of the cable jacks is not easy to get to and if they have to pull new wires to it, I would have to move a TV and entertainment center.



gax279 said:


> So my questions...
> 1. Does the Hopper and Joey system utilize the existing coax wiring/cable jacks? Basically unplug the old boxes, plug in the new, and good to go?
> 
> 2. In my house, I could put the Hopper in the family room, Joey #1 in the kitchen, Joey #2 in the basement, and Joey #3 could float between the spare bedroom and deck, correct?
> 
> 3. Is there a wireless broadband option for the streaming content. If not, I can use a ethernet powerline adapter...I'd like to take advantage of the streaming features.
> 
> 4. In looking at the Dish Network site and reading their H & J propaganda, it says _Call 800-333-DISH to upgrade your equipment. Fee(s) will apply._
> 
> I'm going to try and call on my way home from work tonight, but for those that have upgraded, what were the "fees," if any?
> 
> Thanks again-
> DB


----------



## James Long

gax279 said:


> I called Dish and they answered questions 2-4 for me.
> 
> *James*, or others that have had it installed, can you answer my 1st question?
> 
> Dish was not able to, or at least I couldn't understand his answer. I ask because 1 of the cable jacks is not easy to get to and if they have to pull new wires to it, I would have to move a TV and entertainment center.





> 1. Does the Hopper and Joey system utilize the existing coax wiring/cable jacks? Basically unplug the old boxes, plug in the new, and good to go?


It depends on the quality of your coax and whether it goes where it needs to go.

You need a straight run from the Hopper to the "node". You need a straight run from each Joey to the "node". You can split each run ONCE, feeding a Hopper and Joey off of the Hopper connection to the node (using a tap) or feeding two Joeys off of the Joey connection to the node (using a splitter).

You will also need two feeds from the "node" to the dish and have a DPP LNB on the dish. (For a two hopper system one needs three runs to the dish. Two hopper systems use a "duo node" with separate feeds to each hopper.)

If your cable is poor quality or you have additional splits you may have to have the cable replaced. You cannot have any other signals on the coax between the Hoppers/Joeys/dish.

It is a complicated answer ... which is why a tech looking at the cable is probably the best way DISH could give an answer.


----------



## wco81

I have a D* installation, with the dish and a multiswitch mounted outside a town home in the upper level of the building.

From there, 3 RG-6 cables run downstairs to the living room and 2 RG-6 cables run to the upstairs bedroom. Presumably the MoCA switch or hub could be installed outside with the dish and then the existing RG-6 cable runs could be used to network the hopper to the joeys?

Only have two TVs and probably would be fine with one hopper and one joey.


----------



## Groundhog45

Very good writeup. I enjoyed reading the first look. I'm getting ready to help wire a friends new house and this is probably the setup they will get. Very helpful.

In post 8, in one of the pictures of the Hopper, what is the red box with the vent grid on the top?


----------



## wtrjock

The red box is the Dish Sling Adapter. A special sling adapter that only works on dish network VIP and hopper receivers.


----------



## wtrjock

Damn P....you beat me to it!


----------



## P Smith

wtrjock said:


> The red box is the Dish Sling Adapter. A special sling adapter that only works on *dish network VIP* and hopper receivers.


Not for ViP922, not for ViP622, not for ViP211[k] - the adapter is good only for 722[k] model. And h2k now.


----------



## wtrjock

Thanks for the correction. That makes sense...I had a VIP722 and it worked there. I thought it worked on all of them.


----------



## khearrean

Ok, a simple question here. This may have been discussed somewhere, but I don't see it. 
Assuming I was interested in a HD DVR, but had no intention of ever using/having one on more than the one TV in my main viewing room, would there be any reason to get a Hopper vs one of the regular Dish HD DVR's?

Ken


----------



## RasputinAXP

3 sat tuners instead of 2. PTA. Improved HD interface. [email protected] app.


----------



## gax279

James Long said:


> It depends on the quality of your coax and whether it goes where it needs to go.
> 
> You need a straight run from the Hopper to the "node". You need a straight run from each Joey to the "node". You can split each run ONCE, feeding a Hopper and Joey off of the Hopper connection to the node (using a tap) or feeding two Joeys off of the Joey connection to the node (using a splitter).
> 
> You will also need two feeds from the "node" to the dish and have a DPP LNB on the dish. (For a two hopper system one needs three runs to the dish. Two hopper systems use a "duo node" with separate feeds to each hopper.)
> 
> If your cable is poor quality or you have additional splits you may have to have the cable replaced. You cannot have any other signals on the coax between the Hoppers/Joeys/dish.
> 
> It is a complicated answer ... which is why a tech looking at the cable is probably the best way DISH could give an answer.


Thank you James, I will think this over a bit more and perhaps schedule an install.

Is a new or different "dish" part of the H & J system/install?


----------



## RasputinAXP

"gax279" said:


> Thank you James, I will think this over a bit more and perhaps schedule an install.
> 
> Is a new or different "dish" part of the H & J system/install?


Only if you're not already on a complete arc.


----------



## AMGTX22

Great review, thanks!

My question is about connecting the Hopper setup to the internet, as I am installing both Dish and cable internet in a new home around the same time and am trying to figure out where my cable modem and router need to be installed. Also about the Sling Adapter functionality with Hopper, which may be a bit off-topic but certainly related.

First, does the Hopper require a wired internet connection? Is there WiFi functionality either now or in the future? (I would prefer wired for the Sling Adapter upload speeds, but that leads to my next question...)

Second, with 2 Hoppers, does each need to be connected to the internet, or only one? It sounds like both Hoppers could use the internet connection of one, based on how everything is transferred around the house on MoCA (no, I'm not technically-literate with this stuff!).

Third, does the Sling Adapter have the same limitation of a Slingbox, where it takes over the viewing on the box it is attached to (TV must watch what Sling user is watching remotely)? 

I.E., is a 2 Hopper / 3 Joey setup with a Sling Adapter on one Hopper necessary? Or can you accomplish the same goals (4 TVs and a Sling user online) with a 2 Hopper / 2 Joey setup (or 1 Hopper / 3 Joeys)? Obviously I would be limited by the number of tuners in my setup (1 v. 2 Hoppers), but don't want to pay for an extra box if it isn't necessary, be it Joey or Hopper.

Basically I ordered the 2H/3J setup thinking I'd put a Slingbox SOLO on the 3rd Joey in a closet next to the router, but the Hopper RF remote doesn't appear to work with the Slingbox IR functionality. The Sling Adapter is cheaper than the SOLO (both upfront and for the App) although it is also limited (to Dish receivers, and VOD is iPad only -- no iPhone).

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## P Smith

Take a look at the thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=203038 - a lot of info there...


----------



## James Long

AMGTX22 said:


> My question is about connecting the Hopper setup to the internet, as I am installing both Dish and cable internet in a new home around the same time and am trying to figure out where my cable modem and router need to be installed. Also about the Sling Adapter functionality with Hopper, which may be a bit off-topic but certainly related.


The cable modem needs to stay on its own cable (no mixing Hopper with cable), but otherwise place it where it needs to be. When I had a cable modem I had it placed close to the entry point and ran ethernet around the house but if your cable modem/router has built in wifi you might want a location more central to where you will use the wifi.



> First, does the Hopper require a wired internet connection? Is there WiFi functionality either now or in the future? (I would prefer wired for the Sling Adapter upload speeds, but that leads to my next question...)


The Hopper does not require a wired connection ... it can use specific USB wifi adapters.



> Second, with 2 Hoppers, does each need to be connected to the internet, or only one? It sounds like both Hoppers could use the internet connection of one, based on how everything is transferred around the house on MoCA (no, I'm not technically-literate with this stuff!).


DISH has a "Hopper Internet Connector" (HIC) which would be the best bet. Have that installed where a wire is convenient and it serves Internet to every Hopper and Joey.

Without the HIC the Hoppers and Joeys will (eventually) talk to each other just fine (DISH is working on getting two Hopper systems fully functional). But only Hoppers connected to wifi or Ethernet will be able to talk to other devices or the internet. The HIC solves a lot of networking challenges.



> Third, does the Sling Adapter have the same limitation of a Slingbox, where it takes over the viewing on the box it is attached to (TV must watch what Sling user is watching remotely)?


It takes over one of the three tuners. If you start watching a recorded program it gives back that tuner but will take back the tuner whenever it needs one.


----------



## AMGTX22

Wonderful, thank you both for the quick responses!


----------



## dmspen

So the Ethernet port on the back of a Joey is for the HIC?
Is that also the purpose of the USB, to provide a port for a wireless USB dongle?

Can ethernet be connected directly to a Joey from a switch?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Ethernet can be connected directly to the Joey, and is in fact the only other way besides the HIC (or WiFi) to get regular internet (for DLNA) to your Joey.

The supported WiFi USB adapter can be used in lieu of a direct ethernet connection


----------



## bjamin82

Question... if 500gb out of 2tb is reserved for customer use... what is the other 1.5tb used for?


----------



## James Long

dmspen said:


> So the Ethernet port on the back of a Joey is for the HIC?


The HIC is connected to the Hopper or Joey cable and provides a network connection for ALL Hopper and Joey devices on the MoCA network.

The Ethernet connections on the Hoppers and Joeys can be used to connect each individual device to the home network/Internet but only the HIC provides a way of connecting all devices to the network with one connection.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

bjamin82 said:


> Question... if 500gb out of 2tb is reserved for customer use... what is the other 1.5tb used for?


On Demand that is downloaded to the receiver while in standby and the PTA nightly primetime recordings mostly.


----------



## checksum

I recently upgraded from a 722, 611, 611. I have 3 tv's. Now I have 2 Hoppers and 1 Joey.
Let me start off by saying that it would be nice if both hoppers could be linked together using the whole-home-dvr thing. Because the way it is. If Im on the tv with the Joey I can link up to either one of the hoppers but not both. I can also switch. But the whole problem with this setup is that everyone in my house wants access to the "PrimeTime" thing. So that means that BOTH hoppers have to give up 1 tuner each to BOTH record the "PT" thing. That means instead of 6 real tuners I only have 5 because from 6-10 at night the recordings are redundant. 
To solve this problem they need to make it so that any tv, either a Joey or a Hopper can link. Or that not just linking a Joey to a Hopper but linking Hopper to Hopper. If they cannot fix this I may end up s* canning the whole thing.
Also the whole system seems very buggy. It took 2 separate installers almost 4 hours to install and get this all set up and running.


----------



## domingos35

checksum said:


> I recently upgraded from a 722, 611, 611. I have 3 tv's. Now I have 2 Hoppers and 1 Joey.
> Let me start off by saying that it would be nice if both hoppers could be linked together using the whole-home-dvr thing. Because the way it is. If Im on the tv with the Joey I can link up to either one of the hoppers but not both. I can also switch. But the whole problem with this setup is that everyone in my house wants access to the "PrimeTime" thing. So that means that BOTH hoppers have to give up 1 tuner each to BOTH record the "PT" thing. That means instead of 6 real tuners I only have 5 because from 6-10 at night the recordings are redundant.
> To solve this problem they need to make it so that any tv, either a Joey or a Hopper can link. Or that not just linking a Joey to a Hopper but linking Hopper to Hopper. If they cannot fix this I may end up s* canning the whole thing.
> Also the whole system seems very buggy. It took 2 separate installers almost 4 hours to install and get this all set up and running.


dude did u read this thread before deciding to get the hopper/joey system?
the hopper to hopper link up is coming soon via software update.
when u decided to go with the hopper/joey system u should of known that each hopper uses a tuner to record PT
don't blame dish for your choices
and the 2 hoppers DON'T have to give up 1 tuner/each to record PT .its YOUR choice .u can turn PT OFF


----------



## RasputinAXP

The hopper-to-hopper link is coming this summer.


----------



## 356B

RasputinAXP said:


> The hopper-to-hopper link is coming this summer.


I hope you're right, when they say coming soon it brings up memories of the infamous "TV Everywhere Extender" which ended up being the Joey more or less years later. :sure:


----------



## checksum

Im also having trouble getting my local NBC channel to show up in my favorites list. No matter how many times I add it, no matter how I add it. By the time I get back out to the normal guide screen it wont show up. 
Also on 1 tv I have a hopper and another with a joey hooked up to that hopper. But even if both show are watching the exact same thing it still shows 2 out of 3 of my tuners being used, and one of the channels is nothing Im recording or watching on either tv. I was told by a Dish customer service person that thats normal and when I do eventually need it to record something it will just become available. Why cant they just fix that. My CS rep said that they wouldnt be fixing this and that there is nothing to fix. I dont agree...


----------



## domingos35

checksum said:


> Im also having trouble getting my local NBC channel to show up in my favorites list. No matter how many times I add it, no matter how I add it. By the time I get back out to the normal guide screen it wont show up.
> Also on 1 tv I have a hopper and another with a joey hooked up to that hopper. But even if both show are watching the exact same thing it still shows 2 out of 3 of my tuners being used, and one of the channels is nothing Im recording or watching on either tv. I was told by a Dish customer service person that thats normal and when I do eventually need it to record something it will just become available. Why cant they just fix that. My CS rep said that they wouldnt be fixing this and that there is nothing to fix. I dont agree...


thats because PIP is using one of the tuners
that tuner is available for recording and watching live tv if u choose to use it
otherwise its used by PIP


----------



## Ray [email protected] Network

When you display the TV Viewing Status screen, it will display channels the tuners were recently tuned to. There is not a problem with the Hopper and Joey if it shows 2 tuners in use even though you may only have 1 TV on. As soon as another tuner is used, it will display on the TV Viewing Status screen.

Are you only having problems saving your NBC channel to your Favorites Lists? What software version is your Hopper and Joey? Please let me know. Thanks.



checksum said:


> Im also having trouble getting my local NBC channel to show up in my favorites list. No matter how many times I add it, no matter how I add it. By the time I get back out to the normal guide screen it wont show up.
> Also on 1 tv I have a hopper and another with a joey hooked up to that hopper. But even if both show are watching the exact same thing it still shows 2 out of 3 of my tuners being used, and one of the channels is nothing Im recording or watching on either tv. I was told by a Dish customer service person that thats normal and when I do eventually need it to record something it will just become available. Why cant they just fix that. My CS rep said that they wouldnt be fixing this and that there is nothing to fix. I dont agree...


----------



## checksum

Yes, For some reason I cannot get NBC-HD to save to my favorite list. I created a favorites list and added most of the HD channels minus a few. But no matter what I do, even if NBC-HD is selected like the other channels, and even when I save the change before exiting... It doesnt wanna show up. But its fine in the all channels or HD channels list.
Also last night I got some channels that had no sound. More than one channel. This morning they seemed to work but a couple other channels had no sound. Like its hopping around randomly.
Other than these few problems the overall concept of the system is great. And I already wonder how I could do without the PrimeTime thing. But there seems to be quite a few bugs with this new setup that Dish can hopefully get working. The biggest thing for me is that I want both my hoppers connected so that I only have to record the Primetime thing one time for my entire household. ANd hopefully I'll have a 4 TB Mega-Hdd. If they do that I'll be happy...


----------



## mdavej

Checksum, press Menu Menu and see what version of software you're running. The favorite channel list issue in 2.04 seems to be fixed in 2.07. A workaround for now is to add at least 2 channels at a time to your list, and it should add NBC. However it will disappear again eventually. It will stick when you get 2.07.


----------



## checksum

Do you mean the software on the joey or the hopper. The Joey says S259 ZADH for software. The hopper is S207. How can I update?


----------



## 356B

I don't know that you can force a software update. They usually come at night with the other updates i.e. guide, schedules, etc. 
If there is a way it would be good to know.


----------



## mdavej

checksum said:


> Do you mean the software on the joey or the hopper. The Joey says S259 ZADH for software. The hopper is S207. How can I update?


You have the latest then.



356B said:


> I don't know that you can force a software update. They usually come at night with the other updates i.e. guide, schedules, etc.
> If there is a way it would be good to know.


Scott G. in another forum said to force an update, reboot the Hopper (by using the Red Reset Button on the Hopper) and then leave it in screen saver mode. It should then download the update in a few minutes of being on standby. Of course you'll only get a newer version if it's in the stream at the time. It will check for an update automatically every night anyway.


----------



## GoatLocker

Not sure this is the right place to post this, but if not I'll just play my newbie card.
I have been reading a lot, and tons of great information.
I'm get a Hopper and 3 Joey's installed tomorrow for the TVs in my signature.
Node will go into the panel in the bedroom closet.
My question is the location of the hopper.
From what I've read, not sure it really matters.
2 of the Joey's are easy, One in my office and one in the bedroom.
I'm just not sure whether to put the Hopper downstairs in the Family Room, or upstairs in the Loft.


----------



## P Smith

GoatLocker said:


> Not sure this is the right place to post this, but if not I'll just play my newbie card.
> I have been reading a lot, and tons of great information.
> I'm get a Hopper and 3 Joey's installed tomorrow for the TVs in my signature.
> Node will go into the panel in the bedroom closet.
> My question is the location of the hopper.
> From what I've read, not sure it really matters.
> 2 of the Joey's are easy, One in my office and one in the bedroom.
> I'm just not sure whether to put the Hopper downstairs in the Family Room, or upstairs in the Loft.


Hold it close to your main TV with HDMI input.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Yeah... if I was only getting 1 Hopper + Joeys (as opposed 2 two Hoppers) I would make sure my Hopper was on my largest/best HDTV.


----------



## GoatLocker

Thanks guys, that was my original thought was the 52".


----------



## Wire Nut

If any of your TVs have only component/DVI input, I.E. no HDMI, consider putting the Hopper there.


----------



## P Smith

Wire Nut said:


> If any of your TVs have only component/DVI input, I.E. no HDMI, consider putting the Hopper there.


That would be middle priority ...


----------



## GoatLocker

All 4 TVs have HDMI, so didn't think that would be the issue.
And once I sort through figuring out HIC, should be in good shape.
One of the Joey's will be right beside my cable modem and Router.
Waiting on the call now to tell me what time he'll be here.


----------



## James Long

GoatLocker said:


> All 4 TVs have HDMI, so didn't think that would be the issue.
> And once I sort through figuring out HIC, should be in good shape.
> One of the Joey's will be right beside my cable modem and Router.
> Waiting on the call now to tell me what time he'll be here.


I he puts the HIC next to the cable modem you'll have Internet (and networking) on all your receivers.


----------



## GoatLocker

His recommendation was to put the Hopper next to the Cable Modem.
Did that and everything appears to be working fine.
Still playing with things and sorting things out.


----------



## checksum

I have also been having trouble with Channels just stopping and locking up while Im watching. This seems to happen when Im watching a recording and after this is all over I have to restart the recording...
And also, starting at 9 or 10 oclock at night I keep getting a message that says the system wants to shutdown for updates or something to that effect. If I select No, it will come back about an hour later. How can I get this to stop happening?


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## Russ52

Can A Hopper Be Utilized/Work With DirecTV & If So, Where Can I Purchase One, & I Definitely Will Need A Manual To Hook It Up Correctly.  ?


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## RAD

"Russ52" said:


> Can A Hopper Be Utilized/Work With DirecTV & If So, Where Can I Purchase One, & I Definitely Will Need A Manual To Hook It Up Correctly.  ?


No, it can be used only on Dish network.


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## P Smith

Russ52 said:


> Can A Hopper Be Utilized/Work With DirecTV & If So, *Where Can I Purchase One*, & I Definitely Will Need A Manual To Hook It Up Correctly.  ?


eBay


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## James Long

P Smith said:


> eBay


Even purchased via eBay a Hopper will not work with DirecTV.


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## P Smith

Watch selected part of the quote ...


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## RasputinAXP

James Long said:


> Even purchased via eBay a Hopper will not work with DirecTV.


shhhhh don't ruin the fun


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## Russ52

Thanks For The Answer 'Rad', James Long'.

I Really Like The Fact That You Can Record More Than 2 Shows At The Same Time.


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## chad.ayres

Can a single tv switch between the tuners. Could I watch all 3 tuners from 1 tv like I can switch between the turners on my 722?


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## domingos35

chad.ayres said:


> Can a single tv switch between the tuners. Could I watch all 3 tuners from 1 tv like I can switch between the turners on my 722?


i think so
click the red button and pick the tuner u want


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## James Long

You can use the red button to change tuners but if no one is watching a tuner and nothing is recording on it the tuner will change to "available" instead of the channel tuned.


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## Ray [email protected] Network

No, you can only watch 2 tuners at a time on 1 TV. The Hopper TV can use the PIP feature, which uses 2 tuners. This feature is not available on the Joey. If the third tuner is not in use, attempting to switch to an idle tuner does not connect the TV to that tuner. The Hopper/Joey will connect to an active tuner. If you have further questions, please let me know. Thanks.



chad.ayres said:


> Can a single tv switch between the tuners. Could I watch all 3 tuners from 1 tv like I can switch between the turners on my 722?


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## patmurphey

To be clear he has access to all three tuners from each TV.


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## James Long

patmurphey said:


> To be clear he has access to all three tuners from each TV.


He loses control of the tuner as soon as he selects another. If no one else is using that tuner (watching or recording) the tuner will go to "available". A Hopper will keep up to two tuners active (due to PIP/swap). A Joey will keep one tuner active. Tuners not in use will become available.


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## Sir Lagzalot

Just had a second hopper added today and by accident found out that you can connect joeys to hoppers with only a network connection no rg6 at all. Was this always possible?


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## P Smith

Sir Lagzalot said:


> Just had a second hopper added today and by accident found out that you can connect joeys to hoppers with only a network connection no rg6 at all. Was this always possible?


Oh, that's encouraging discovery !

Can you monitor the traffic, measure at least occupied bandwidth by the client ?


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## puckwithahalo

Sir Lagzalot said:


> Just had a second hopper added today and by accident found out that you can connect joeys to hoppers with only a network connection no rg6 at all. Was this always possible?


One of the recent software updates did that. Wasn't available at launch.


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## P Smith

puckwithahalo said:


> One of the recent software updates did that. Wasn't available at launch.


Where it was in notes then ? Reading these I don't recall such feature was announced ...


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## James Long

P Smith said:


> Where it was in notes then ? Reading these I don't recall such feature was announced ...


Announcing would mean supporting.


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## Wire Nut

Sir Lagzalot said:


> Just had a second hopper added today and by accident found out that you can connect joeys to hoppers with only a network connection no rg6 at all. Was this always possible?


Joeys have USB port, Wifi adapter= wireless HDTV? Don't have a Joey on my home system, this would be beyond cool.


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## P Smith

James Long said:


> Announcing would mean supporting.


Why every time when you bringing 'logical' answers, I hear Charlie's voice during his Chats ?....


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## James Long

P Smith said:


> Can you monitor the traffic, measure at least occupied bandwidth by the client ?


I don't have anything loaded on my Ethernet to track, but the "Counters" page on the Hopper shows MoCA running to each Joey at 292,635,024 bps. Counters do not show the Ethernet speed, but I only have 100 mbps at home and a Joey connected to only the Ethernet seems to work fine.


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## P Smith

James Long said:


> I don't have anything loaded on my Ethernet to track, but the "Counters" page on the Hopper shows MoCA running to each Joey at 292,635,024 bps. Counters do not show the Ethernet speed, but I only have 100 mbps at home and a Joey connected to only the Ethernet seems to work fine.


It would be interesting to check Ethernet load when three Joye will play some HD content.


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## Sir Lagzalot

Just had a thought, theoretically I should be able to move a joey anywhere in my house as long as I have network access. I guess I test that theory out tomorrow when I have more time, I'll also try and do some load testing.


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## puckwithahalo

James Long said:


> Announcing would mean supporting.


:up:


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## mweathers

I am a current DirecTV customer, thinking of moving over. I just read this entire post and still have a question about the HD. I know it's 2T, with 500 gb reserved for customer use. If I turn off the PTAT feature, is all 2T available to save shows?


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## RasputinAXP

It's 1TB now. You don't get any space back if you disable PTAT.


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## cheetahz

OK after reading most of this discussion I do not see what everybody is excited about. 
I have a 722 hooked via of component to my projector for HD. The HDMI is hooked up to my A/V receiver to my main TV in living room for HD. (hooper doesn't have 2 HDTV outputs according to this info) and the 722's 2nd tuner /DVR is hooked up via of A/V output and RCA for sound to my bedroom TV also spli to living room TV. All my TV's are HD so I added a 211K with a hard drive (for DVR capability) to my bedroom set for HD programming and a 2nd DVR. I can also watch the 722 DVR or satellite in SD in my bedroom. 
This is relatively cheap for the 722 is including in programming cost. DVR fee is only charged once and no whole house DVR fee. Only extra charge is for one receiver. Both sat receivers came with OTA tuners built in therefore free (now they found a way to make more money and charge for them) so I can watch HD OTA channels on any of the sets and record to either DVR in HD. 
The only advatage I see is the PTA which I pretty much have via of the five tuners. 2 in the 211 (one atsc and one satellite) and 3 (2 satellite and 1 atsc) in the 722. This Hooper /Joeys seem to be fancier but cost a lot more. Since I already have coax runs for antenna and satellite throughout my home I see no additional features for the extra cost. 
I think you can do the same thing for less using conventional HD receivers. Know if they did not charge extra for each Joey, they were wireless HD and an additional whole house DVR fee (just another excuse to charge more) then it may be worth it. 
I guess I am missing something. Anyway I will stick with what I have and I appreciate all of you other guys paying extra fees to help keep programming cost down. 
Just my 2 cants worth which is about what it is worth I suppose.


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## RasputinAXP

You cannot do with regular receivers what you do with the H+J: HD at all TVs with a single DVR with shared content. You can't share the content from the 722 to the 211k.


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## komondor

My 2nd 922 box died today I lost a lot of recordings it was about 75% full and had never even shown the slightest problem until this AM, after going around with Dish sending me a new box but could not get it until Monday I decided to upgrade to the Hopper Joey route the only question I have is what do you do for an older TV that just has a coax connection?

Anyone have a feeling on when Joey's will be able to talk to any Hopper I am going to have 2 of each


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## P Smith

komondor said:


> My 2nd 922 box died today I lost a lot of recordings it was about 75% full and had never even shown the slightest problem until this AM, after going around with Dish sending me a new box but could not get it until Monday I decided to upgrade to the Hopper Joey route the only question I have is what do you do for an older TV that just has a coax connection?
> 
> Anyone have a feeling on when Joey's will be able to talk to any Hopper I am going to have 2 of each


It's start 'talking' on last FW S2.13/S2.65, see http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=3053801&postcount=18
Coax TV ? FOr HDTV ? Oh man ! Buy RF modulator - eBay, Amazon, Craigslist, etc


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## patmurphey

komondor said:


> ...what do you do for an older TV that just has a coax connection?
> 
> Anyone have a feeling on when Joey's will be able to talk to any Hopper I am going to have 2 of each


I think you can get an adapter for RCA to coax.

Joeys have always been able to look at and control recordings of either Hopper. The new software allows you to view and play recordings from one Hopper to the other.


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## ChE74

Hi Everyone,

Just received Sep 2012 issue of Home Theater Mag. It has a 4 pg. review of the Hopper/Joey system. Very positive review but no mention of running very warm.


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## P Smith

Oops and gotchas you will find at forums like this one, but in magazines.


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## ChE74

I did not mean to imply the temp. situation doesn't exist just that it wasn't mentioned in the the review. Why? who knows.


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## joeerg

I now have a 722k, a 722 and a 211k. The 211k is on an RV and I don't think relates to this question (correct me if I'm wrong). The 722k drives two HDTVs off tuner 1, one via HDMI, the other component, and one SD set off tuner 2. The 722 drives two sets off tuner 1, an HD via HDMI and an SD via coax, and an SD set off tuner 2. I am looking at replacing this with one or more Hoppers. What would be the best setup if the idea is to be able to watch any recorded program from any set?

Also, when I talked to DISH, they said that it was not possible to manage recorded programs via the internet. Some of the posts I've read here indicate otherwise. What's the right answer?


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## Ray [email protected] Network

If you are seeking the same number of TVs you have now (6 TVs?) but not share the same tuner for multiple TVs, you need 2 Hoppers (3 tuners each) and 4 Joeys. With 2 Hoppers, you can watch recordings from either Hopper from the Hoppers and Joeys.

Please explain what you mean, "manage your recordings" online. You can setup timers and delete recordings online for your Hopper when logged into dishonline.com. Please elaborate what you mean. Thanks.



joeerg said:


> I now have a 722k, a 722 and a 211k. The 211k is on an RV and I don't think relates to this question (correct me if I'm wrong). The 722k drives two HDTVs off tuner 1, one via HDMI, the other component, and one SD set off tuner 2. The 722 drives two sets off tuner 1, an HD via HDMI and an SD via coax, and an SD set off tuner 2. I am looking at replacing this with one or more Hoppers. What would be the best setup if the idea is to be able to watch any recorded program from any set?
> 
> Also, when I talked to DISH, they said that it was not possible to manage recorded programs via the internet. Some of the posts I've read here indicate otherwise. What's the right answer?


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## joeerg

I'm fine with TVs sharing tuners. There are never more than 3 people watching at any one time. However, I need the ability to record at least 3 or 4 events simultaneously. Assume that at least two would be covered by PTAT, plus 2 non-network shows.

The critical issue concerning managing recordings over the internet is the ability to protect a program that was recorded on PTAT from being erased after 8 days. I am frequently out of town for extended periods and want to be able to preserve more than 2 recorded shows from the same time slot.


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## RasputinAXP

You just set a standard timer and it copies the recordings from PTAT to the regular saved portion of the DVR. Don't have to manage anything remotely for that.


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## P Smith

RasputinAXP said:


> You just set a standard timer and* it copies the recordings from PTAT to the regular saved portion of the DVR*. Don't have to manage anything remotely for that.


It's copying nothing from/to.

SW using segmentation info about the one huge chunk of PTA recording (one chunk per channel per night ) and making it small in same USER space using SAME quota.


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## RasputinAXP

Yes. In specific language it's not strictly speaking "copying". But in simple terms, it is. Not a big deal.


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## P Smith

There is no specific language used.

You're creating misleading terminology. Using right and simple description would help ppl understand processes. Not to confuse them more and more. Take a look how science popularization working.


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## RasputinAXP

"Setting a timer allows the Hopper to create a new show after 8 days have elapsed from the PTAT recording based on timestamps, and store the resulting show on the user partition" 

is more clear and simple than you put it, but the end result is no different than

"Setting a timer keeps a copy after 8 days."

Which one's easier to understand?


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## P Smith

Still not provided critical info: not a whole 4 hrs chunk copy, but selected show(s). And still out of real action, btw.


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## joeerg

Thanks for the information re saving PTAT recordings. I'm still not clear as to what equipment configuration is best. I am currently running 3 sets off a 722k, two HDs from tuner 1, via HDMI and component, and an SD from tuner 2. I run another three sets from a 722, an HD via HDMI and an SD via coax off tuner 1, and an SD off tuner 2. I have no need to control separately the sets that are currently sharing tuners. Am I better off with 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys, or 1 Hopper and 3 Joeys? I understand the cost is the same.


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## Clearcreek

Wouldn't the second Hopper be an additional $99? You would get 3 additional tuners with the second hopper.


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## david_jr

joeerg said:


> Thanks for the information re saving PTAT recordings. I'm still not clear as to what equipment configuration is best. I am currently running 3 sets off a 722k, two HDs from tuner 1, via HDMI and component, and an SD from tuner 2. I run another three sets from a 722, an HD via HDMI and an SD via coax off tuner 1, and an SD off tuner 2. I have no need to control separately the sets that are currently sharing tuners. Am I better off with 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys, or 1 Hopper and 3 Joeys? I understand the cost is the same.


I would recommend 2 hoppers based on your previous posts. 2 and 2 would give you independent viewing on up to 4 TV's, but the outputs on Hopper can be shared as you were already doing with 722s (HDMI/component). And the Joeys can be carried between locations if you have the wiring run and configured properly. You could add more Joeys for convenience sake, but each one carries additional $7 month fee.


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## Mr.Gadget

Awhile back, somebody was going to do some testing using the Ethernet port on the Joeys. Can the Joey access the Hopper over the network rather than the Coax for accessing media? I would really like to maintain my existing coax (headend) system, and keep clear of Dish clutter since they don't play well together. I have other devices currently sharing the coax (Cameras, DVD players, Tuners, etc).

I know I could pull a second coax for the Joey in remote locations, but I already have a network and coax at all remote destinations, thus keeping the coax for existing (legacy TV) services, and the network for new applications (Joey).

In this configuration, the TV can then select either HDMI input for the Joey, or TV/ANT for my coax headend CATV.

Thanks

Nevermind - Found answer from other forum back to this forum.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=205986


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## 34Ford

I noticed in the pics at the start of this thread there is a G4 card.
Is this necessary? I thought they didn't need cards anymore.


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## Stewart Vernon

34Ford said:


> I noticed in the pics at the start of this thread there is a G4 card.
> Is this necessary? I thought they didn't need cards anymore.


Not sure exactly what you mean... some receivers have the built-in encryption, but since that can change they all have the card slots. IF they didn't do that, then they couldn't ever change security without having to replace all receivers in the field... so sometimes you get a receiver with current security built-in, other times you have one with a card in the slot.


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## Howard Polack

I have everything home run in my house. I have typically two RG6 and Cat6 per box and 2 boxes or more per room. My issue is that I need 8 connected TV minimum which tells me I have to have two Hoppers and 6 Joeys. My issue is that it sounds like where ever the Hopper is, I may need to have a splitter and three rg6 back to the Joeys. Can I connect the three Joey's to one Hopper through Cat6 using a switch instead of RG6? There appears to be ethernet connection on both. Can I run the Hopper in a room with One RG6 in and ONE RG6 out to a central hub room where all my RG6 through out my house terminate. Then I could put a splitter in that room hooking all the Joeys up from that room?


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## bobukcat

Howard Polack said:


> I have everything home run in my house. I have typically two RG6 and Cat6 per box and 2 boxes or more per room. My issue is that I need 8 connected TV minimum which tells me I have to have two Hoppers and 6 Joeys. My issue is that it sounds like where ever the Hopper is, I may need to have a splitter and three rg6 back to the Joeys. Can I connect the three Joey's to one Hopper through Cat6 using a switch instead of RG6? There appears to be ethernet connection on both. Can I run the Hopper in a room with One RG6 in and ONE RG6 out to a central hub room where all my RG6 through out my house terminate. Then I could put a splitter in that room hooking all the Joeys up from that room?


Yes, you can use Ethernet to connect the Joeys to the Hoppers but they do have to be connected via Coax for the initial download / setup before being moved to Ethernet: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=205986

The Coax to the Joey's doesn't come directly from the Hoppers, it comes from the Duo Node they would install where the three lines from the dish come into the house. It has four outputs, one line is used for each Hopper and then the remaining two can be split to feed Joeys.

Diagrams can be found here: http://www.dishuser.org/hopper.php


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## Ray [email protected] Network

The coax feed for each Joey feeds off the Node on a client ports. The Joeys access programming from the Hopper it is linked with and DVR content from either Hopper.

If you have a distribution point for your coax cables, the nodes can be placed there. Please let me know if you have further questions. Thanks.



Howard Polack said:


> I have everything home run in my house. I have typically two RG6 and Cat6 per box and 2 boxes or more per room. My issue is that I need 8 connected TV minimum which tells me I have to have two Hoppers and 6 Joeys. My issue is that it sounds like where ever the Hopper is, I may need to have a splitter and three rg6 back to the Joeys. Can I connect the three Joey's to one Hopper through Cat6 using a switch instead of RG6? There appears to be ethernet connection on both. Can I run the Hopper in a room with One RG6 in and ONE RG6 out to a central hub room where all my RG6 through out my house terminate. Then I could put a splitter in that room hooking all the Joeys up from that room?


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## TheGrove

bobukcat said:


> Yes, you can use Ethernet to connect the Joeys to the Hoppers but they do have to be connected via Coax for the initial download / setup before being moved to Ethernet: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=205986


This is no longer true. When they setup my 2-Hopper/1-Joey install we just plugged everything into my ethernet network and the Joey linked up and updated without any problems. My only coax runs now are from the dish to the Hoppers everything else interconnects via my network.


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## Howard Polack

If I am understanding everything correctly, I can have a dou node switch in my distribution room from the Satellite Dish. From there it is a cable to the hoppers in any room.

I can then jack the Hoppers into my gigabit network. Then I can locate any Joey in any room where I can jack it into my network. Are we sure this does not have to be connected through its own switch.

Seems to be too good to be true.

If this is not true, worst case, I can run a RG6 cable from the switch in my distribution room to any Joey. Which since all my cables are home run to all boxes in all my rooms, I don't have to really run any new cables.


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## James Long

Howard Polack said:


> I can then jack the Hoppers into my gigabit network. Then I can locate any Joey in any room where I can jack it into my network. Are we sure this does not have to be connected through its own switch.


Your existing switch should work. I have a 100mbps switch that serves the wired equipment in my home and it works fine to connect a Hopper to Joeys. A separate network is not required.

We even have one user on our site who is using a wi-fi dongle on a Joey to connect it to his home network.

The caveat is that Ethernet is not officially supported. If it doesn't work don't expect DISH to try to fix it for you.


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