# Class Action Legal Action



## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

with all the problems with the r15 that appear to be taking forever to fix, why not get everyone together and take some legal action for promises of service that is not being delevered!!!

That might get the problems fixed faster, I know I got my DVR only to record 3 shows a week, and to be able to rewind/pause what I am watching when the phone rings


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

I said this very same thing on D* forum.

How long do you think it took them to remove it?

If someone challenged their 2 Year commitment they would win. D* has to fulfill their part of the commitment, and they are not doing that.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

irmolars said:


> I said this very same thing on D* forum.
> 
> How long do you think it took them to remove it?
> 
> If someone challenged their 2 Year commitment they would win. D* has to fulfill their part of the commitment, and they are not doing that.


you 2 are correct, directv
only cares profit 1st, customers never, they figure, piss a few off, so what many more suckers out there


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Some of the State's Attorney General's already hit DTV for false advertising not long ago. They could start again.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

You want out of the 2yr commitment? Send the equipment back. Gotta love a country where people are sue happy.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

list kanyon, when u get directv, 9it is a sevice, hence set top bopxes shouuld not have to be purchased

and when directv is pulling their latest scam, lease the reciever, byt you are payin full price AND still a montly fee, that is fraud


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

I just want equipment that is up to what they said it was..

I'm not asking for anything that wasn't advertised that it could do..

not get out of a contract, just have it work right


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> list kanyon, when u get directv, 9it is a sevice, hence set top bopxes shouuld not have to be purchased
> 
> and when directv is pulling their latest scam, lease the reciever, byt you are payin full price AND still a montly fee, that is fraud


It is not a "scam" or "fraud"... They are telling you that you are "leasing" right at the time of the transaction. It is in the user agreement that you sign.

Now, if an employee of a retail chain tells you something different, that isn't DirecTV's fault. (But if the CSR tells you something different... well that is a different can of worms).

And for the last 10 years... (since I have had DirecTV service), you have ALWAYS had to pay a monthly fee (service charge), and a mirroring charge for the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/ ect... reciever... Same as it is today.

The only "difference" is that the hardware is no longer owned by the customer.
(Which is a discussion for another thread).


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> and when directv is pulling their latest scam, lease the reciever, byt you are payin full price AND still a montly fee, that is fraud


Uh, no it isn't. DirecTV has laid out all the different specifics on the lease program, and in order to get a new receiver you sign a lease document stating that you understand the terms.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=fraud

fraud 
n. 
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain. 
2. A piece of trickery; a trick. 
a. One that defrauds; a cheat. 
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Nosey said:


> I just want equipment that is up to what they said it was..
> 
> I'm not asking for anything that wasn't advertised that it could do..
> 
> not get out of a contract, just have it work right


And I think we all agree with you...

The R15 does need improving, and I do think it will improve.
It will never be (and never can be) the perfect 100% DVR, for 100% of the consumer base.

Some options that user A wants, counters what user B wants.

BUT.... 
The R15 does record programs... it just doesn't do it reliable enough (that will change, very soon)
The R15 does allow you to rewind/ff through programs, and pause live TV...

So at it's core... it does do what it is "advertised" to do.
It just doesn't do it well or reliablly enough.

The unit has been out for 4 months. And yes, it probably should have been better when it was released. But it wasn't, can't change the past.

We have now had 3-4 software releases, and there is another one right around the corner, with another one not so long after that.

Give DirecTV a call, and see if they will credit you the DVR service fee for a few months... As the the R15 works fine as a tuner (Aka you punch in the number and the channel comes up), it is the DVR functions that are the issue here.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

matty8199 said:


> Uh, no it isn't. DirecTV has laid out all the different specifics on the lease program, and in order to get a new receiver you sign a lease document stating that you understand the terms.
> 
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=fraud
> 
> ...


when uyou pay full price what a supplier pays for something, then haVE lease fee monthly then return it, that is deceptive


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> when uyou pay full price what a supplier pays for something, then haVE lease fee monthly then return it, that is deceptive


I guess your definition of deceptive is different then the dictionary then. It's not deceptive AT ALL it's laid out in black and white what you're getting. As I have stated if you don't like their way of doing business you have the choice to leave. I mean you must hate DirecTV pretty badly, so maybe you should look into another provider, there are other Sat companies not to mention cable and in some places FiOS.


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

I never said I didn't like direct TV, I live in an RV and do some traveling, so i gives me TV anywhere I go, but, I purchased the DVR at Bestbuy, it's not leased, and while it does do the basic things they say it will do, it doesn't do it all correctly, read all the posts about the problems..

If you buy a new car and there are problems, you take it to a dealer and they immediatly fix the problems..

you can't tell me that the programmers doing the updates don't already know that there are bugs when they put the update out, that would be like selling someone a car and you tell them the AC works, but it actually only works when it is below 75 degrees, that to me is no different then what they are doing with the R15, they say you can record a series, but it doesn't do it correctly for example..

all i ask is a working machine with less bugs in it..


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Nosey said:


> I never said I didn't like direct TV, I live in an RV and do some traveling, so i gives me TV anywhere I go, but, I purchased the DVR at Bestbuy, it's not leased, and while it does do the basic things they say it will do, it doesn't do it all correctly, read all the posts about the problems..
> 
> If you buy a new car and there are problems, you take it to a dealer and they immediatly fix the problems..
> 
> ...


Oh I have NO problems with that. While I am one of the ones who hope this box truely gets fixed it doesn't change the fact that I know it has some major issues. The recording every episode of a show bug drives me nuts. Just certain people here have an issue with posting something negative in most every post they make.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Oh I have NO problems with that. While I am one of the ones who hope this box truely gets fixed it doesn't change the fact that I know it has some major issues. The recording every episode of a show bug drives me nuts. Just certain people here have an issue with posting something negative in most every post they make.


not negative, they are called FACTS


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Warning bring it: :backtotop


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Kanyon71 said:


> You want out of the 2yr commitment? Send the equipment back. Gotta love a country where people are sue happy.


Sometimes this is the only way to get their attention.


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Warning bring it: :backtotop


No contest


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

I too, would like to see them get the r-15 fixed.

Their programmers must be fresh out of school. It doesn't take six months to write some software that will work.

Updates are too far and few in between.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

irmolars said:


> I too, would like to see them get the r-15 fixed.
> 
> Their programmers must be fresh out of school. It doesn't take six months to write some software that will work.
> 
> Updates are too far and few in between.


BINGO


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay..

Summary:
There are issues with the R15... Yes.

Are they grounds for a Class Action Legal Action?
Until someone pony's up and states they ARE a class action lawyer or judge.....

If you want to discuss DirecTV's "Deception", "Leasing", or other items.
Take it to the General DirecTV Forum.

I know for a "fact" that the developers for the R15 are not sitting around playing XBOX all day. The R15 is a complicated piece of software. Making one change here, effects there... 

And if you (As a cosumer) want less "bugs" in the system, then you have to wait for the software releases to go through testing, more testing, fixes, more testing...ect...

1 thing that 10 years of software development has taught me.... very very rarely are things as simply as they "appear" to be.

Thread Closed.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl,

I appreciate that it is difficult moderating some of the threads, but in the thread you closed regarding a class action suit you keenly pointed out that we should wait for a lawyer to chime in, but closed the thread.

I do NOT think it is unreasonable to discuss or research the possibility of a suit based on the non-performance of the R15.

One computer manufacturer has settled one suit and another is pending regarding faulty power supply units which have caused multiple repairs or rendered the unit unusable..... it is not a stretch to say that the R15 also has needed several "fixes", also many people have had tech support and returned untis only to find the same unsolved defects.

Contrary to what you said in the previous thread, the R15 does NOT do what is advertised. For instance here are three statements from DTV website about functionaility that failed me more than once before i disconnected the machine:

Automatically record every episode of your favorite shows, even if they change days or times.

Pause live TV, rewind, watch in slow-motion and create instant replays.

Record two shows at the same time*, even while you watch another recorded show. 

If a suit does no more than improve the quality of later products, then the purpose is erved...noone will get rich off a class action suit other than the lawyers, but they do serve a purpose.

I do not agree that the contracts for 2 yr agreements are fraud or illegal, i am only concerned about DTV releasing a substandard product and being misleading about it's current abilities...

In the absence of vulgarity, I think the post is relevant and worthy of further investigation...after all you point people here from other forums to discuss issues.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Hmm... Okay, fair enough.
I will re-open the thread, to continue the discussion..


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is no doubt that the R15 has issues....

But even if a Class Action lawsuit was started today... it would be months before it could get any traction... and by then, the issues could be resolved.

Class Actions (IMHO) are such a gray area, especially with something like this.

Does the R15 doe the three things you listed... yes, it does.
Does it do it 100% no... 
You can say the same thing about the beloved DTivos, and possible the UTVs (I don't have one so don't know for sure).

I very much do believe the unit is improving... and we should see a good deal of improvement over the next few weeks.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Great. Thank You. 

Hopefully, We can find someone who knows about consumer protection law! and not typical yahoos(me included) that like to spout off using what they learned watching LA Law


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Class action suits get $$ for the attorneys. Call you State Attorney General, provide the DTV statements and advertisements, let them go after DTV for false advertising.

In a class action suit the only winners are the attorneys.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> Great. Thank You.
> 
> Hopefully, We can find someone who knows about consumer protection law! and not typical yahoos(me included) that like to spout off using what they learned watching LA Law


Do Do... Do Da Do......

I think I just heard an expensive car's trunk slam close....


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

Thank you for reopening the thread..

Maybe a class action isn't what is needed, but what would happen if the tables were reversed..

We tell the billing department that we will pay our bill and what amount we will pay, then we only pay 75% of what we told them, if we did that each month, I'm sure the service would be turned off.

whats the difference, both are lies.

if you are going to advertise a poduct that has poblems, at least state the there are issues on the box. 

"Sometimes records your shows, but we are working on it, maybe in 6 months we will have it right"

"Sometimes locks up, but, we put the little red button on there so you can reset the machine, oh but it only works when you are home, so if it locks up while you are recording something while you are away, guess you are sol"


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I would agree that your "reverse" analogy would be correct.

So one way to handle it, to guarantee that "YOU" recieve something out of it... is to call DirecTV and talk to their customer retention people... and see if you can get a credit for the DVR service fee.

For what it is worth... I do know they are working on it... and I do know they would rather be working on new features for the box, then bug fixes... what programmer/developer wouldn't?

So it is in the best intrest of EVERYONE for them to get it fixed ASAP...

Also... hold off a least two weeks before filling that lawsuit...


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So one way to handle it, to guarantee that "YOU" recieve something out of it... is to call DirecTV and talk to their customer retention people... and see if you can get a credit for the DVR service fee.


Yes, if your goal is a juicy credi ton your bill, call DTV you'll get more from them than an individual will in a law suit. Lawyers are the only ones who comeout with huge checks in Class action suits. If you think you will own a satellite because your R15 didn't record the Oscars or the "Lost" that explained EVERYTHING. (thousands of R15 users are unsure if that's a joke and are very nervous) then you are fooling yourself.

Lawsuits are extremely expensive, much more than credits or free premium channels. it might be worth more programmers working more hours to avoid a suit.

Also: Who wants to go through this with the HR20?

Say what you want about potential of the box...platform of the future blahblahblah...it was not ready for release and speaks very poorly of the company that they have released and pushed this product the way they have without it working properly. How did they not know it didn't work? and it's been 4 months and it still doesn't.

To me the threat of a lawsuit is simply leverage. A Lot more leverage than individuals complaing about DVR service fees


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Well no one is going to state that their product has issues on the box. Seriously have you ever seen a version of Windows that says, Thousands of bugs and security holes? The major issue is this lawsuit issue that you have is that you would have to prove that this product was released with DirecTV knowing that all of these issues where there and that they are doing nothing to rectify these issues. This would be very hard to prove, now in my opinion they knew there where issues but I seriously doubt they knew that they existed to the extent that they do.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Kanyon71 said:


> Well no one is going to state that their product has issues on the box. Seriously have you ever seen a version of Windows that says, Thousands of bugs and security holes? The major issue is this lawsuit issue that you have is that you would have to prove that this product was released with DirecTV knowing that all of these issues where there and that they are doing nothing to rectify these issues. This would be very hard to prove, now in my opinion they knew there where issues but I seriously doubt they knew that they existed to the extent that they do.


Please Kanyon, without getting into specifics, don't compare MS or Windows to the R15. Not a valid comparison.

I also believe the development staff knew of the R15 problems prior to it's release. But we will never know for sure.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

This thread topic caught my eye, because I see these type of threads pop up with almost ever Dish DVR that gets released. As soon as a update goes bad, someone started the discussion of Class action law suite. Problem is, I don't recall it ever going any further. Like some have said, time consuming and costly.

As to the Windows comparision.. Actually it is a valid comparision as I see it, first one that popped into my head. When Windows NT was orginally released you could not even use the word stability and NT in the same sentence. Microsoft instructured IT departments to reboot in the middle of the night because NT servers could not last more than a day. Lots of people went through lots of pain... Microsoft definitely has improved in this area, but the Microsoft orginization is covered with these type of examples. They by no means are the only ones either. 

Well bottom line as I see it and having seen a lot of these type threads.. You have two choices. One, change to a vendor that better meets your needs. Two, try and work within the system to improve it. These two options to me are much more obtainable than letigation in my books. 

Well my 2 cents. Sorry to hear you guys are going through some development pain. I have seen my share on the otherside of my fence and hopefully D* can stabilize the box. 

Well good luck guys.. Lets keep this thread civil like it is.. Lots of times these type of threads can go down hill quickly and most likely why Earl had is finger on the trigger.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

You know, I'm starting to get tired of reading posts by people saying the R15 should have been able to do this, that and other things right out of the gate. It's a NEW product people, it takes time to make it better.

My guess is that the same people that thought the R15 should be perfect with every option on day 1 also thought the first car should have had A/C, Power Windows, Power Leather Seats with a heater and GPS navigation installed.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> You know, I'm starting to get tired of reading posts by people saying the R15 should have been able to do this, that and other things right out of the gate. It's a NEW product people, it takes time to make it better.
> 
> My guess is that the same people that thought the R15 should be perfect with every option on day 1 also thought the first car should have had A/C, Power Windows, Power Leather Seats with a heater and GPS navigation installed.


No not at all. We would only expect that if it was replacing a car that already had A/C, Power Windows, Power Leather Seats with a heater and GPS navigation installed and was advertised as "advanced technology", we wouldn't expect to take a step backwords. Would you?

Remember, this isn't DTV's FIRST DVR. Just the first DVR they made an attempt at doing on their own.


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

ok, no one ever said it should work 100% out of the box, but, they should at least tell people up front that there are problems.. when I bought mine at Best Buy, which is another issue, the price sign said $100 rebate, nothing else, then you check out and get the rebate form and it says for new customers.. Ithats another issue I'm going to deal with Best Buy about..

But, when you buy a TV, what would happen if you bought a cable ready tv and then found out that only the even channels worked and they would fix it, but it took 6+ months to fix..

all that is EXPECTED is for it to do what they said it would do, yes, maybe some bugs, but not the major problems, if it would auto-tune, it would be easier to use my vcr to record the stuff..

Hopefully they will get things going soon..


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Remember, this isn't DTV's FIRST DVR. Just the first DVR they made an attempt at doing on their own.


heh, that kinda makes it their first DVR doesn't it?

All of the past DVR's that were part of their system were manufactured by others and the software written by others. This IS their first DVR.

Was the first space shuttle perfect? Nope, it never even went into space. Was that NASA's first rocket? Or even the world's first rocket? Not by a long shot....

My point is that this is D* first attempt at their own DVR, cut them some slack guys. Afterall they ARE working on it. It's not like they made a piece of crap that they aren't willing to fix.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Please Kanyon, without getting into specifics, don't compare MS or Windows to the R15. Not a valid comparison.
> 
> I also believe the development staff knew of the R15 problems prior to it's release. But we will never know for sure.


It wasn't meant as a direct comparison of the products. I am stating that you cannot sue based on a product having issues of that nature, especially if they are actively being worked on. I am sure they knew of some of the issues that the product has but I doubt they knew how severe and all of the problems that existed.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

My apologies in advance, but a DVR is not rocket science.

Since this DVR was built off of NDS software it is not the first DVR that they have produced. Can one make the argument that this is the first NDS DVR with a DirecTV sticker on it, absolutely. But the sticker on the box is not the point.

NDS DVRs have had issues for years and years. This is just the first taste of them here in the US. Nonetheless, I still hope that the issues can be corrected post haste. Personally, I do not see an attorney (or a team of them) helping the situation.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I don't think the "problem" is as much the design of the system. That would not be an issue on the "customer" end if the design had been properly tested prior to consumer use.

The consumer should not have seen the quantity of errors we have seen it DTV had not released the box as it was. Or, if they had "offered" the box for "free", no rebate involved with the stipulation that all users would be testing the system and there would be no charges except for "DTV packages" for a period of one year after which mirroring charges would begin.

This has to be a PR nightmare for DTV as they are in a very competitive market. They will make it right but at our time and frustration. I feel sorry for those folks who have this box as there ONLY DVR.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> I don't think the "problem" is as much the design of the system. That would not be an issue on the "customer" end if the design had been properly tested prior to consumer use.
> 
> The consumer should not have seen the quantity of errors we have seen it DTV had not released the box as it was. Or, if they had "offered" the box for "free", no rebate involved with the stipulation that all users would be testing the system and there would be no charges except for "DTV packages" for a period of one year after which mirroring charges would begin.
> 
> This has to be a PR nightmare for DTV as they are in a very competitive market. They will make it right but at our time and frustration.* I feel sorry for those folks who have this box as there ONLY DVR.*


Thanks for caring!  _This is my one and only DVR_, and except for my rants about D* killing the AUTORECORD functionality of the R15 right in the middle of the olympics, I am quite pleased with it. Since it is recording all the shows that I want to have recorded, I do not need to worry about the little issues such as not being able to record only first run programs.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for those folks who have experienced perfection in their DTivo boxes, but who now need to struggle with the inferior R15.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> You know, I'm starting to get tired of reading posts by people saying the R15 should have been able to do this, that and other things right out of the gate. It's a NEW product people, it takes time to make it better.
> 
> My guess is that the same people that thought the R15 should be perfect with every option on day 1 also thought the first car should have had A/C, Power Windows, Power Leather Seats with a heater and GPS navigation installed.


you dont get it do you,, those features we complain it not having, were on other boxes before this one was produced, therefore there is no valid excuse why they are not on there now...

no matter who produced them before

and when directv limits your choice of dvr's to get certain functions, and limits the common sense features they convienetly leave out, then we have every right to correctly slam directv

and comparing your 1st car to a dvr, is apples and oranges... with cars you are limited by personal choice, selection, and income ........

with the r15 we are given no choice, no r15a or r15b, or even if only one model still no ability to change defaults.. which many other boxes had ... and if the box had more memory etc.... then we could have the features we deserve since we are limited to 1 box......


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I stand corrected, I feel sorry for MOST of those folks, or at least the 85% that are having problems. 

Mine too is working fine in a diminished capacity and I will like it better than my other box when it can record what is requested without the errors that have been occurring. 

In staying on topic, my point was that it does not require a lawyer to fix it. 

Just good programming and proper testing.


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## georgewells (Feb 23, 2006)

Leave the lawers out of it and give DTV a chance. My R-15 works fine and I have had no major problems with it. I just hope the H20-250 works just as good when it comes out !!


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

georgewells said:


> Leave the lawers out of it and give DTV a chance. My R-15 works fine and I have had no major problems with it. I just hope the H20-250 works just as good when it comes out !!


you would be 1 of the few, and by your location, i am betting you work for directv


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## georgewells (Feb 23, 2006)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> you would be 1 of the few, and by your location, i am betting you work for directv


I don't know why my location (northern Idaho) would indicate I work for DTV. I work for no one -- I am retired !!
Also my R-15 still works OK.


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

I went to Direct from cable because several in my family have it and are happy with it, I live in an RV and plan on traveling this summer and I can take it with me where I can't with cable... I kept the cable for a few months because my internet is through it and I kept the cable dvr for the shows I recorded, but since then I devided to have just 1 tv system.

But, I had DVR with cable, which has included a few things people have mentioned here, built in PIP, a working scheduler, easy access menu's..

I had a great experience with the cable DVR for 4 years and figured that the Direct DVR would at least be functional without major issues..

we will see I guess, hopefully they will come out with an update soon, and hopefully they have tested it so most of the major bugs are out..


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## Bud33 (Jan 26, 2006)

Nosey said:


> with all the problems with the r15 that appear to be taking forever to fix, why not get everyone together and take some legal action for promises of service that is not being delevered!!!
> 
> That might get the problems fixed faster, I know I got my DVR only to record 3 shows a week, and to be able to rewind/pause what I am watching when the phone rings


The only thing a class action will get is some shyster rich


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Very few class action suits do anything but make money for the lawyers, and if a company settles, or loses, costs them money which inherently costs the consumer money....heck even if D* wins any ridiculous litigation that could arise from this, the costs associated with going to court still end up costing the subscribers....


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

They just need to get this piece of you know what working.
I have been with D* for over ten years. Used to recommend them to everybody.
Not any more. 
I had an Ultimate dvr before this piece. 
Not one problem with it for six years, right out of the box. So Microsoft can do some things right. I would still be using it if it didn't have a hard drive problem.
The R-15 is a nice unit, just too many bugs.


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## sjniedz (Feb 11, 2006)

I have been with DTV since 2000 and I must say the R-15 has been a huge disappointment. I have had UTV, Tivo and now the R-15. (By far UTV was the best IMHO) 

I will be calling DTV for a credit on my account tomorrow. I cannot justify paying full price for the service they are supplying. This product never should have been released in this condition. The R-15 may speak volumes about the new DTV culture. No matter how you slice it, this product is a representation of DirecTV. They screwed up, plain and simple. It does happen, but what is important now is how they fix the problems and to see if this type of service becomes a trend. 

I have referred six people to DTV over the last 6 years. I touted their excellent products and services. Today for the first time I was researching Dish Network as a valid alterative. I am giving DTV until the summer and will make my decision then. Truthfully, the only way to have an impact on an organization is to vote with your wallet. If you don't like a service being provided, you have to be prepared to go elsewhere. My television viewing is my entertainment. Neither I nor any other customer should be expected to come home each night and UAT a DVR.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

CCarncross said:


> Very few class action suits do anything but make money for the lawyers, and if a company settles, or loses, costs them money which inherently costs the consumer money....heck even if D* wins any ridiculous litigation that could arise from this, the costs associated with going to court still end up costing the subscribers....


I knew I was starting law school for some reason. :lol:

Seriously if they where doing nothing to fix these issues then I would be all over the hey lets push them bandwagon. As long as they are actively trying to fix these issues I am of the frame of mind where I say let's give them time to correct them or hang themselves.


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## evcomp (Nov 19, 2006)

I think this thread was nine months ago, but still having all the same issues as the rest? Any word on those SW updates?


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

I hate when trolls pull up OLD threads. So typical. A bane on all forums.

Our R15 is working GREAT these days!.... only ONE glitch.... Sometimes there are too many shows recorded for our series links.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Slyster said:


> Our R15 is working GREAT these days!.... only ONE glitch.... Sometimes there are too many shows recorded for our series links.


I think there's a lot more than one glitch. I'd call it approaching acceptable.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

qwerty said:


> I think there's a lot more than one glitch. I'd call it approaching acceptable.


I would agree. I also wouldn't use the term "great". I'm approaching a label as "ready for prime time" but in 10FA I've seen some things that bother me.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I would agree. I also wouldn't use the term "great". I'm approaching a label as "ready for prime time" but in 10FA I've seen some things that bother me.


I've seen nothing in 10FA that bothers me :lol:

(it's a joke - don't have it yet)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I've seen nothing in 10FA that bothers me :lol:
> 
> (it's a joke - don't have it yet)


Have you tried to get it?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

qwerty said:


> I'd call it approaching acceptable.


I agree, it's so much better than it started, which indicates they released it too soon without testing. But they have made it better. Most of us know that's what happens with "early adopters" but we continue to do it as we enjoy the challenge.

Have a great holiday/Christmas everyone.

Peace


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I'm approaching a label as "ready for prime time" but in 10FA I've seen some things that bother me.


So 13 months after release and how many updates and it's still limited, sluggish as heck, records repeats and every new updates adds another new bug or two or three that were not there prior.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> So 13 months after release and how many updates and it's still limited, sluggish as heck, records repeats and every new updates adds another new bug or two or three that were not there prior.


I've got MyPlaylist down to 82% available and I wouldn't classify it as sluggish. MyPlalist comes up in about a second...when it comes up (yes that's a problem). They are making progress but some of the bugs I've been seeing on 10FA I hadn't seen before. I may try a reformat today to start with a clean slate. My last one was in August under 10D3 I think. Then it got 10E8, then 10F1, then back to 10E8, then 10F4, then back to 10E8 and now 10FA.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Have you tried to get it?


Yes quite a few times and just flat out no luck. I want to try it out and see what it does to my box.


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

Bobman said:


> So 13 months after release and how many updates and it's still limited, sluggish as heck, records repeats and every new updates adds another new bug or two or three that were not there prior.


Bug fixes aside, the R15 still has not attained the functionality of the product (the DTivo) that it superseded. No mention of getting rid of the 50 SL limit, no mention of getting rid of the 100 item limit on the todo list, no mention of limiting searches to channels that you receive. All of these were implemented on the Tivo. When I called DTV to replace a dead Series I DTivo, the rep told me how happy I'd be with the R15 and its "improved features". It was a huge disappointment when I got the unit and found that it couldn't do what my old DTivo had been doing for years.

I'm glad that they fixed a lot of the bugs in trick play. I replaced the R15 with a refurbished DTivo because I felt those bugs made the unit unuseable. But with a working DTivo, there is no way I'd reactivate the R15 until it reaches the same level of functionality as its predecessor.


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## Lantian (Aug 26, 2006)

the only ones who win are the lawyers


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Really, if I were designing a DVR, never in my wildest dreams would I think that 50 series links would not be enough.

And a 100-item To-Do list seems plenty big.

I guess they didn't really research the needs of the heavy users. But the way it is, is fine with me.


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> Really, if I were designing a DVR, never in my wildest dreams would I think that 50 series links would not be enough.
> 
> And a 100-item To-Do list seems plenty big.
> 
> I guess they didn't really research the needs of the heavy users. But the way it is, is fine with me.


The 50 SL limit is a biggie and you don't have to be a heavy user to reach it. I watch a lot of series on BBCAmerica. They're on for 4 or 5 weeks then they go on hiatus and return 6 months later. I'll get an SL during the initial series and just keep it. Then, 6 months later when the series returns new episodes will start appearing. Add to this automatic searches for favorite movies that only come around once in a blue moon and auto searches for favorite performers who rarely appear on the TV like the Marx Brothers and WC Fields, and you soon have over 50 SLs. I got up to 124 on my old Series 1 Tivo most of which produced recordings at great intervals. This highlights the other issue - auto searches. They would be worthless if the machine went and recorded them from channels I didn't receive. The R15 is a bear when it comes to that. I'm on the west coast. Network shows air later here than they do on such channels as CBS-E. My autosearches would always try to record the episode on CBSE (which I don't get) rather than the one on the LA local channel which I do.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I am just different, or maybe "old-fashioned" is the term. I don't trust this new-fangled contraption to do any of that automatic stuff.

The one series I record, I manually search for each week, select it on the channel I want, tell it to record, pad the start and the end and go.

The 40 or so movies I record each month, I find them in the guide and do the same. If I wanted "WC Fields" I would search for him every week and manually set the movies to record. (I've got almost all his sound films on DVD or VHS, by the way, and all of the Paramount Marx Brothers.)

The way I find most of my movies is to read the "OnDirecTV" magazine movie listings, movie by movie, every month, with Maltin's guide at my side.

Don't trust these newfangled contraptions, sonny...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

paulman182 said:


> I am just different, or maybe "old-fashioned" is the term. I don't trust this new-fangled contraption to do any of that automatic stuff.
> 
> The one series I record, I manually search for each week, select it on the channel I want, tell it to record, pad the start and the end and go.
> 
> ...


But these DVRs are not new fangled anything. DTivos have been doing this for years. UTVs longer. New fangled to new customers but old hat to the industry and anyone that's every had a Tivo or UTV.

The DTV DVRs claim to be implementing new features but have summarily rejected old features that were/are important to existing DVR users (Tivo/UTV). Distinguishing between reliability and functionality, the DVR+ line is sub-par...on both counts. DTV may be able to bring the reliability side of that up but I have absolutely no hope of any DVR+ coming close to the existing functionality of my DTivos.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

paulman182 said:


> Really, if I were designing a DVR, never in my wildest dreams would I think that 50 series links would not be enough.
> 
> And a 100-item To-Do list seems plenty big.
> 
> I guess they didn't really research the needs of the heavy users. But the way it is, is fine with me.


If you have 40 SLs, your 100 limit TDL will only go out for the next few days and will, from what I've seen, still not have some programs scheduled until the last minute.

BTW, the HR20's TDL has a limit of 400. Why hasn't the R15 been upgraded to that level?


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> Really, if I were designing a DVR, never in my wildest dreams would I think that 50 series links would not be enough.
> 
> And a 100-item To-Do list seems plenty big.
> 
> I guess they didn't really research the needs of the heavy users. But the way it is, is fine with me.


The 100 item todo list limits the number of repeating series in a day. if you watch "the Golden Girls" or "Mash" or any other show that has multiple episodes per day, you'll top out at 6 or 8 series links. Each episode is an item in the todo list


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## anopro (Sep 13, 2006)

The R-15 is nowhere near great!

Still many bug’s “New one last week grouped 4 different programs under ER” and yes why such a low to do list count?

The R15 is not even close to the 5year old Ultimate TV unit it replaced and neither was the R10 TIVO as far as speed nor functionally goes. Can’t count how many times I’d say to my wife why they didn’t have someone who used a DVR before program their new one and if they did what were they thinking!

Disclaimer My R15 has never missed a record. 
I do experence Blank/frozen screen, choppy FF/RWD controls, trick play works sometimes other times not at all, stuck time bar. Yes it works but not great.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

paulman182 said:


> Really, if I were designing a DVR, never in my wildest dreams would I think that 50 series links would not be enough.
> 
> And a 100-item To-Do list seems plenty big.
> 
> I guess they didn't really research the needs of the heavy users. But the way it is, is fine with me.


Six series links for daily kids shows and I'm over 100. A 100 item list is not plenty big and in no way would I consider six series links "heavy use".


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

raott said:


> Six series links for daily kids shows and I'm over 100. A 100 item list is not plenty big and in no way would I consider six series links "heavy use".


Now that brings up the Ineffective/Stupid KAM logic that the DVR+ units have.

I also record kids shows, they play umpteen times a day, some only 15 minutes long. All I want to do it keep 5 shows (really I want to keep 10 but for some reason the DVR+ Gods didn't think we needed that option) and then stop recording any new shows. Once the kids get tired of watching a particular Blue's Clues for the 100th time I could then delete that episode and 20 seconds later a new one would start recording. But there's no way to do this on the R15/HR20.

Keep at most = 5. Keep until I delete. I always have 5 shows and when I delete one another one is recorded. That works for me on Tivos, but DVR+ units keep recording more shows, thus filling up those precious 100 TDL entries. Create a SL for Dora, Blue's and Doodlebops (whatever it is) and that will fill your 100 item list.

Of course DTV could expand the TDL to 400 items like they did with the HR20.....or maybe not.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> ... (really I want to keep 10 but for some reason the DVR+ Gods didn't think we needed that option)


Agree 200%. Ten would be a perfect option - there are many situations where 5 isn't enough and all is wayyyyy too much.

Carl


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Slyster said:


> I hate when trolls pull up OLD threads. So typical. A bane on all forums.
> 
> Our R15 is working GREAT these days!.... only ONE glitch.... Sometimes there are too many shows recorded for our series links.


I've been on sites where if a new b asks a question that was asked before you get the "Use search" Nazis jumping allover them.... I was in a site like that for a year and finally told the site owner where he could stick his forum, and his moderators were all friggin' idiots.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> You want out of the 2yr commitment? Send the equipment back. Gotta love a country where people are sue happy.


While there are a number of frivolous civil suits filed every year in the U.S., sometimes the only thing that will move a large corporation to act responsibly is the punitive economic threat posed by class action suits (and other pro-consumer litigation). There are dozens of good examples of cases where a class action suit has rectified intentional bad behavior. And while I also believe that the lawyers make way too much on class action suits fee-wise, without those suits, there would be a lot of harmful products and ripped off consumers out there suffering.

Believe me, when and if the time comes that you need to take legal action for something that hurts you or your family either financially or in a very personal way (health, safety, etc.), you will be the first one on line to file. If not, you are simply a fool who will let a major company walk all over you. Many others don't share that naive mindset.

Directv has already lost one major class action suit (on NFL ST several years ago), and also was hit with fines in its recent telemarketing folly. They are hardly an innocent, poor defendant. If they want to avoid the threat of litigation, they should deliver what they promise.

And no, I'm not a lawyer.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

tstarn said:


> While there are a number of frivolous civil suits filed every year in the U.S., sometimes the only thing that will move a large corporation to act responsibly is the punitive economic threat posed by class action suits (and other pro-consumer litigation). There are dozens of good examples of cases where a class action suit has rectified intentional bad behavior. And while I also believe that the lawyers make way too much on class action suits fee-wise, without those suits, there would be a lot of harmful products and ripped off consumers out there suffering.
> 
> Believe me, when and if the time comes that you need to take legal action for something that hurts you or your family either financially or in a very personal way (health, safety, etc.), you will be the first one on line to file. If not, you are simply a fool who will let a major company walk all over you. Many others don't share that naive mindset.
> 
> ...


No lawsuit is ever frivolous, ask the victims...... The only way to proportionately punish a company is to make a "dent" in their bottom line, the bigger the bottom line the bigger the dent....... Car companies could make faulty vehicles that cost lives (Pinto, Edsel, etc.) to recall and fix all of them might cost $100,000,000.00 so the correct thing to do since business is all about money is, you have to make it cheaper to fix the problem than to pay the lawsuits or they will make junk, and don't feed me "free market" garbage, drive past a gas station and tell me about markets determining things.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

dodge boy said:


> ...and don't feed me "free market" garbage, drive past a gas station ..


Therein lies your problem. You need to WALK or BICYCLE past the gas station.

Carl


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

dodge boy said:


> No lawsuit is ever frivolous, ask the victims...... The


I've got to disagree with you there. I beleive there are many lawsuits filed soley because they know company will settle because it would cost them more to fight.


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## golphin (Jan 9, 2007)

I never had cable until September 2006. I started making a little extra money at work and decided to sign up for cable with DVR service to record all my favorite shows. I could have signed up for the DISH or for Comcast Cable (which most people in my area have) but I decided to go with Direct TV because they had competetive prices and an attractive rebte offer. Little did I know, this equipment was faulty and had been for months. I noticed right away that the Auto record feature on the R15 never worked. I would watch something and try to rewind and nothing would happen. Then over the next month the TV would freeze and the all of the recording features were completely useless. This was in September. I work so much that I didn't get a chance to call the company until November. They couldn't help me. So finally in December I started researching this problem on my own, only to discover that hundreds of other people have the same exact problem. So Direct TV knew these systems were faulty and they sold it to me anyway. They didn't even warn me. I never would have signed up with them. They took advantage of me and a lot of other people. They need to be penalized to deter this kind of deception in the future.


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## evcomp (Nov 19, 2006)

Faulty equipment is definitely a pattern on this board. Makes me wonder if the numbers are so small, then how can we collectively have these issues. I have tried to deal with DTV on a professional level, but they refuse to budge about the contract. I have decided to live with it for now and revisit the issue later. At least I have the history, not that it will do much good. I switched from DISH because I moved and no longer could watch my favorite football team. I just see it as lessoned learned. I won't get the Ticket next year and when they ask why, well you already know the answer to that one.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

golphin said:


> I never had cable until September 2006. I started making a little extra money at work and decided to sign up for cable with DVR service to record all my favorite shows. I could have signed up for the DISH or for Comcast Cable (which most people in my area have) but I decided to go with Direct TV because they had competetive prices and an attractive rebte offer. Little did I know, this equipment was faulty and had been for months. I noticed right away that the Auto record feature on the R15 never worked. I would watch something and try to rewind and nothing would happen. Then over the next month the TV would freeze and the all of the recording features were completely useless. This was in September. I work so much that I didn't get a chance to call the company until November. They couldn't help me. So finally in December I started researching this problem on my own, only to discover that hundreds of other people have the same exact problem. So Direct TV knew these systems were faulty and they sold it to me anyway. They didn't even warn me. I never would have signed up with them. They took advantage of me and a lot of other people. They need to be penalized to deter this kind of deception in the future.


I'm sure this receiver is a leased receiver.You need to keep calling until they replace it.Good Luck!


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