# Don't waste your money on LED!



## Rikinky

Well I bought my first and possibly last LED tv last night. I previously had a Samsung 46A550 LCD and it had a really good picture but wanted something bigger I saw the 55C6300 LED in the showroom and it looked really good until I got it home and mounted on the wall and immediately noticed the colors were washed out. I calibrated it about a dozen times and even went with the natural mode instead of Movie mode and still nothing, I also noticed I had to increase the black level to the max to eliminate the backlight bleeding thru the picture. and the angle viewing is a joke the entire screen just looks terrible! I chose this tv over the 58 Samsung 58c500 Plasma, looks like I should have went with the plasma, thus I am returning this junk and going with Plasma this weekend. Also this is my first tv with the 120 hz and I hate it. makes the picture look so artificial.


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## Stuart Sweet

Glad to hear your opinion. I think everyone's is important. Personally I look forward to LED for lower power consumption and smaller size, not necessarily better picture.


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## MysteryMan

From what the OP has stated it sounds like the Samsung 55C6300 LED should have stayed on the drawing board a bit longer. Good luck with the plasma.


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## tgater

Stuart Sweet said:


> Glad to hear your opinion. I think everyone's is important. Personally I look forward to LED for lower power consumption and smaller size, not necessarily better picture.


2nd here. I don't consider my Sony a waste of my money. I'm very pleased with it so far and my wife(happy wife, happy life) likes that it doesn't protrude off of the wall.


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## spartanstew

Rikinky said:


> Also this is my first tv with the 120 hz and I hate it. makes the picture look so artificial.


That's why most TV's give you the option of turning it off. It's really only intended for certain programming, like sports.


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## Earl Bonovich

MysteryMan said:


> From what the OP has stated it sounds like the Samsung 55C6300 LED should have stayed on the drawing board a bit longer. Good luck with the plasma.


I have that exact model on my TV, for nearly 6 months now.
And have to completely disagree.

I went from a plasma to this LED, and it is totally day and night.

I love the 6300.

I have neraly the opposite opinion. The colors are crisp and vibrant.
I personally don't like any 120mhz mode, so I turned it off. (I haven't seen an implementation that I have liked on any unit).


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## Davenlr

May not be at all relevant, because I am not familiar with that tv, but I bought a 24" Viewsonic LED/LCD computer monitor, and found I had to turn the backlight slider from its default of 50, down to 0, before I could get the monitor to calibrate correctly on the black level test. Any setting above 0, and the backlight made the totally black setting look dark gray to light gray.

If your new TV has a backlight setting, try this: Set the contrast to 100%. Start at the lowest setting on the brightness while watching a 4:3 program with sidebars. Increase the brightness until you notice the sidebars start to lighten up, then lower back until its as dark as possible. Then lower your backlight slider (if the set has one) until you notice the sidebars are as black as possible (in my case, it was all the way down). Once that is done, lower the contrast until you get the brightness you want on the screen. Seems strange, but it works, short of professional calibration.

Better yet, get Earl to tell you his settings, and put them into your TV and see how it looks.


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## Hoosier205

Plasma > LCD w/ or w/o LED

If you want superior PQ, go with the superior display technology.


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## tampa8

Imho you either have a bad set, or are not calibrating it correctly. I almost bought that exact model and even in the terrible lighting of the store, after letting me make some settings, it looked very good. Ironically, the color and picture quality even for those that gave it one star for other reasons on Amazon was considered terrific.


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## Rikinky

Ok I stayed up late last night trying to calibrate this tv and I have to admit I have a great picture now. The one thing I noticed different was that I had to turn down my backlight to pretty much off. and energy saver to high because of the brightness this set gives off. I had to set my black level to the highest as well. now the only thing I lack is color pop. I need to learn how to adjust colors or mess with the saturation a bit but I don't want to turn it up risking the unrealistic flesh tones and etc. but definately a long way from what I started. however the angle viewing is still pretty bad at picture degregation.

here is my settings for now as I am learning any help would be awesome. especially with colors
Mode: Movie
Backlight 6
Contrast 85
Brightness 49
Sharpness 10
Color 50
Tint 50/50

Eco Solution
Energy Saver: High
Eco Sensor: Off

Detailed Settings:
Black Adjust: Darkest
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Shadow Detail: 0
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: off
RGB only Mode: Off
Color Space: Native
White Balance: 26/25/22/30/25/25
10P White Balance: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xxycc: Off
LED Motion Plus: On

Picture Options:
Color Tone:Warm 2
Digitial Noise Filter: Auto
MPEG N/F : Off
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Film Mode : Auto 1


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## Earl Bonovich

Rikinky said:


> Ok I stayed up late last night trying to calibrate this tv and I have to admit I have a great picture now. The one thing I noticed different was that I had to turn down my backlight to pretty much off. and energy saver to medium because of the brightness this set gives off. I had to set my black level to the highest as well. now the only thing I lack is color pop. I need to learn how to adjust colors or mess with the saturation a bit but I don't want to turn it up risking the unrealistic flesh tones and etc. but definately a long way from what I started. however the angle viewing is still pretty bad at picture degregation.


I turned off the energy saving mode, but even with it off... it is only drawing a third of the power that my old plasma did.

As for the viewing angle... being used to the 169 degrees of the plasma, i will completely agree with you on that one. And that is the main reason why this particular TV is headed down to the basement later this summer, and a new one coming into the main room.

I had to go with the 6300 about a year earlier then I wanted to, because the plasma was starting to fail.


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## Davenlr

I think you will find most all LCDs have the same angle issues. While I am about to leave for work, and dont have time right now to research the locations, I know there are burnable DVD's you can download over on AVSFORUM.COM that have all sorts of test patterns. You can also buy calibration DVDs online. I think the best bet would be to check Avsforum.com for your specific model, and read the thread. If its like most sets, those that have had their sets professionally calibrated post their settings. If you take those as a starting point, you can get pretty close.


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## iceturkee

i love my led so much so i bought another.


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## lugnutathome

Set color space to wide and it'll pop at ya:grin:

Also dynamic contrast should improve your picture and edge enhancement might help a bit too in image details.

I always run my backlight down to 5, contrast (picture) between 75 and 80, energy save low, auto light sensor on, and move brightness up to about 55.

These settings work across my XBR2, XBR6, and EX700 sets. I keep thinking I'd like to upgrade my XBR2 but it's picture is incredible albeit a bit dimmer than the LED.

Most out of the box settings are bright as thats how consumers conceive a good picture. Fact is deep contrast detail is not possible with the bulb (or contrast) turned to 11.

Sony has a lot of adjustments but once you dial it in... Yeehaw.

Don "Good reason to stay up late wasn't it? " Bolton



Rikinky said:


> Ok I stayed up late last night trying to calibrate this tv and I have to admit I have a great picture now. The one thing I noticed different was that I had to turn down my backlight to pretty much off. and energy saver to high because of the brightness this set gives off. I had to set my black level to the highest as well. now the only thing I lack is color pop. I need to learn how to adjust colors or mess with the saturation a bit but I don't want to turn it up risking the unrealistic flesh tones and etc. but definately a long way from what I started. however the angle viewing is still pretty bad at picture degregation.
> 
> here is my settings for now as I am learning any help would be awesome. especially with colors
> Mode: Movie
> Backlight 6
> Contrast 85
> Brightness 49
> Sharpness 10
> Color 50
> Tint 50/50
> 
> Eco Solution
> Energy Saver: High
> Eco Sensor: Off
> 
> Detailed Settings:
> Black Adjust: Darkest
> Dynamic Contrast: Off
> Shadow Detail: 0
> Gamma: 0
> Expert Pattern: off
> RGB only Mode: Off
> Color Space: Native
> White Balance: 26/25/22/30/25/25
> 10P White Balance: Off
> Flesh Tone: 0
> Edge Enhancement: Off
> xxycc: Off
> LED Motion Plus: On
> 
> Picture Options:
> Color Tone:Warm 2
> Digitial Noise Filter: Auto
> MPEG N/F : Off
> HDMI Black Level: Normal
> Film Mode : Auto 1


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## RASCAL01

My set is the bomb!! I have not seen any other set that even comes close to the picture quality.


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## Hoosier205

...must not have seen a Panasonic plasma then.


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## kikkenit2

Rikinky said:


> here is my settings for now as I am learning any help would be awesome. especially with colors


The thread in this link is 191 pages long but somewhere in there are some suggested settings for your model.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231072

I found by reading the avs forums that the mid-quality lcd tv's this year (especially samsung) 
don't work that well. Seems like the top of the line 3d work good and the bottom model (6000) decent. 
I ended up with a sharp 60" lcd for $1200 and it looks decent, but not $3k 3D quality.


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## spartanstew

kikkenit2 said:


> This thread is 191 pages long


not necessarily


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## gilviv

Loooove my LED! It is an LG42LH90, all in all, the PQ is awesome!


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## MysteryMan

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have that exact model on my TV, for nearly 6 months now.
> And have to completely disagree.
> 
> I went from a plasma to this LED, and it is totally day and night.
> 
> I love the 6300.
> 
> I have neraly the opposite opinion. The colors are crisp and vibrant.
> I personally don't like any 120mhz mode, so I turned it off. (I haven't seen an implementation that I have liked on any unit).


Then perhaps the OP's set was defective.


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## mystic7

Hoosier205 said:


> ...must not have seen a Panasonic plasma then.


Definitely agree. Mine is almost 4 years old AND only 1080i and my pq is amazing. Not as good as modern 1080p sets but hey, like I said, 4 years old, 1080i.


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## Bradcny

I am the proud owner of an ISF calibrated Panasonic Plasma. And, until such a day comes when anybody can convince me otherwise, I always will always be of the unwavering opinion that a top tier, professionally calibrated plasma TV will beat the pants off of the best LCD or LED. As a further note, Panasonic plasmas are the best in the industry.


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## MysteryMan

Bradcny said:


> I am the proud owner of an ISF calibrated Panasonic Plasma. And, until such a day comes when anybody can convince me otherwise, I always will always be of the unwavering opinion that a top tier, professionally calibrated plasma TV will beat the pants off of the best LCD or LED. As a further note, Panasonic plasmas are the best in the industry.


That may be but the input I have received on reflective glare regarding plasmas has been more negative than positive.


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## Bradcny

"MysteryMan" said:


> That may be but the input I have received on reflective glare regarding plasmas has been more negative than positive.


Oh I won't lie to you, you definitely don't want it in your solarium, but in a room with a controlled lighting environment, they are beautiful.


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## Rikinky

Well I regret to say that I returned this tv for a plasma, not because of the picture but because frankly after I calibrated it the picture was awesome, but the viewing angles on this model were horrific unless you are viewing from the sweet spot. If you are viewing from any other angle then your view was washed out and terrible. what a shame! anyone else notice this with this model? I didn't have that with my Samsung 46a550 LCD. sure viewing angles are a problem but with the c6300 it was horrible. I'm getting my replacement in a few minutes. it is a 58" Samsung PNC550 Plasma. I will post my opinions when it is set up. thanks for all the help guys.


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## andouille

Sounds like you got what you paid for. 120hz ?


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## Rich

mystic7 said:


> Definitely agree. Mine is almost 4 years old AND only 1080i and my pq is amazing. Not as good as modern 1080p sets but hey, like I said, 4 years old, 1080i.


I keep looking a LCD/LED sets and the ones with 240 Hertz seem to have the best displays, but I keep buying Panny plasmas. The new 3D Pannys have magnificent PQ in the 2D mode. Just waiting for the prices to drop on them and I'm gonna get one. Don't care about the 3D feature at all, but I sure want one of those sets.

Rich


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## Rich

MysteryMan said:


> That may be but the input I have received on reflective glare regarding plasmas has been more negative than positive.


Don't be put off by that. I have a 50" 1080p Panny in our main viewing room. Eight big windows and I just pull the shades down and the glare is not a factor. I've tried calibrating both of my 1080p plasmas and ended up returning to the factory settings on the older one and the only change I had to make in the one I just bought was to go from "Vivid" to "Custom". Great pictures on all of them. The five 720ps I have are still set to the same settings they had right out of the box.

Rich


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## Rich

Bradcny said:


> Oh I won't lie to you, you definitely don't want it in your solarium, but in a room with a controlled lighting environment, they are beautiful.


Even with the shades down in my main viewing room, it is quite bright on a sunny day and I see no diminishment (Huh. That's not a word. It is now, at least on this computer) of PQ.

Rich


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## olguy

rich584 said:


> I keep looking a LCD/LED sets and the ones with 240 Hertz seem to have the best displays, but I keep buying Panny plasmas. The new 3D Pannys have magnificent PQ in the 2D mode. Just waiting for the prices to drop on them and I'm gonna get one. Don't care about the 3D feature at all, but I sure want one of those sets.
> 
> Rich


Check Amazon for this one:  Panasonic VIERA TC-P50GT25 Mine will be here Monday morning. Moving a Toshiba LCD to her sewing room.


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## Rich

Rikinky said:


> Well I regret to say that I returned this tv for a plasma, not because of the picture but because frankly after I calibrated it the picture was awesome, but the viewing angles on this model were horrific unless you are viewing from the sweet spot. If you are viewing from any other angle then your view was washed out and terrible. what a shame! anyone else notice this with this model? I didn't have that with my Samsung 46a550 LCD. sure viewing angles are a problem but with the c6300 it was horrible. I'm getting my replacement in a few minutes. it is a 58" Samsung PNC550 Plasma. I will post my opinions when it is set up. thanks for all the help guys.


That's one of the main reasons we've never gotten an LCD set. From what I've read and seen, Sony deals with this problem very well. They use the "same'' technology as the Panny plasmas do to solve that problem (no, I don't understand that either, but that's what I've read and been told. Makes no sense to me, but just look at the Sonys from the sides and you'll see what I mean).

Rich


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## TBlazer07

MysteryMan said:


> That may be but the input I have received on reflective glare regarding plasmas has been more negative than positive.


 I just went from a 5yr old NEC PDP (R.I.P.) to a new Panasonic 50" VT25 and while there is still relection during the day with the picture window exposed the new PDP's are greatly improved. On the new Panny the glare is about 1/20th of what it was on the 5yr old NEC. The NEC was like a mirror, this is much less annoying. That being said 95% of our TV watching is at night so it really isn't an issue. During the day, if it matters, I pull the shades and it still isn't an issue so I don't think reflection is really as big a deal as it is made out to be other than for advertising purposes.

As for power savings .... yea. "Watts" a few "watts" between friends but even that has been greatly reduced in newer models. I make 2 less pieces of toast a day to "even it out." 

I haven't had this set calibrated yet (the old NEC was) but the "professional calibration settings" available on AVSForum for most any major brand LCD or Plasma display pretty much makes it unnecessary. I still might eventually get it done if the situation changes around here.

For some readon (IMO) LCD's just don't have the "depth" of image as does a Plasma. LCD programming looks very "flat" (not in color but in depth) vs a Plasma.


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## machavez00

Anyone have a Sharp Quattron?


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## Rich

olguy said:


> Check Amazon for this one:  Panasonic VIERA TC-P50GT25 Mine will be here Monday morning. Moving a Toshiba LCD to her sewing room.


I've got three 50" Vieras, want at least a 60" model. And I don't want to pay what they cost right now. Good deal on the 50" set, tho.

Rich


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## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> I just went from a 5yr old NEC PDP (R.I.P.) to a new Panasonic 50" VT25 and while there is still relection during the day with the picture window exposed the new PDP's are greatly improved. On the new Panny the glare is about 1/20th of what it was on the 5yr old NEC. The NEC was like a mirror, this is much less annoying. That being said 95% of our TV watching is at night so it really isn't an issue. During the day, if it matters, I pull the shades and it still isn't an issue so I don't think reflection is really as big a deal as it is made out to be other than for advertising purposes.
> 
> As for power savings .... yea. "Watts" a few "watts" between friends but even that has been greatly reduced in newer models. I make 2 less pieces of toast a day to "even it out."
> 
> I haven't had this set calibrated yet (the old NEC was) but the "professional calibration settings" available on AVSForum for most any major brand LCD or Plasma display pretty much makes it unnecessary. I still might eventually get it done if the situation changes around here.
> 
> For some readon (IMO) LCD's just don't have the "depth" of image as does a Plasma. LCD programming looks very "flat" (not in color but in depth) vs a Plasma.


I really want a 60" version of your set. I'll wait a while longer.

Rich


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## Davenlr

Thats why I just bought a 3D 60" DLP for $799...Should get me by for 3 or 4 years until I can actually afford a 60" 240hz LED/LCD 3D tv without mortgaging my house.


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## Rich

Davenlr said:


> Thats why I just bought a 3D 60" DLP for $799...Should get me by for 3 or 4 years until I can actually afford a 60" 240hz LED/LCD 3D tv without mortgaging my house.


Kills me to have to wait for the price to drop. I really don't care about 3D, and to have to pay extra for a feature I don't have any interest in bothers me. I'm a big believer in the "You might get killed in a car wreck tomorrow" philosophy, and it really bothers me to wait.

Rich


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## Rikinky

Ok I got my new 58" Plasma on the wall and immediately even without calibration I noticed a huge diference. The picture is amazing and no viewing angle issues and my living room has alot of Natural light that can be controlled by shades and curtains but even with the sunlight the picture is amazing and I can't wait until dark to calibrate it and see it's full glory. now my only question is being that this is my first Plasma I was wondering how to use the Screen Burn Protection option? here is my choices:
Pixel Shift: On / Off
Auto Protection: 10,20,40, 1 hour, and Off
And there is an option to set up the pixel shift auto by certain minutes
Any suggestions on this would be great help.
Also I play Xbox 360 and I am worried about playing any video games on this tv and I have a LCD to play those on but was wondering suggestions on this.
Overall I am very happy that I exchanged the LED with the Plasma for now anyway ( Hopefully) ;-)


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## Rich

Rikinky said:


> Ok I got my new 58" Plasma on the wall and immediately even without calibration I noticed a huge diference. The picture is amazing and no viewing angle issues and my living room has alot of Natural light that can be controlled by shades and curtains but even with the sunlight the picture is amazing and I can't wait until dark to calibrate it and see it's full glory. now my only question is being that this is my first Plasma I was wondering how to use the Screen Burn Protection option? here is my choices:
> Pixel Shift: On / Off
> Auto Protection: 10,20,40, 1 hour, and Off
> And there is an option to set up the pixel shift auto by certain minutes
> Any suggestions on this would be great help.
> Also I play Xbox 360 and I am worried about playing any video games on this tv and I have a LCD to play those on but was wondering suggestions on this.
> Overall I am very happy that I exchanged the LED with the Plasma for now anyway ( Hopefully) ;-)


I don't think you have to worry about burn in. My son has a 50" Panny plasma in his room and plays X-Box, PS3, WII, etc., constantly and we have never seen any evidence of burn in. None of my seven Panny plasmas have ever shown any sign of burn in.

OOPS, just noticed you have a Sammy, can't speak to burn in on them. Sorry.

Rich


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## Davenlr

Roommate lives on Rappelz and it burns in on the 37" LCD !!! I didnt even know it was possible. Its not really burn in on the LCD. Turning it off for 24 hours clears it, so its not permanent, but I sure wouldnt want to try that on a Plasma.

I wouldnt worry about it on the TV inputs, but I would sure turn them all on for the video game input.


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## Rich

Davenlr said:


> Roommate lives on Rappelz and it burns in on the 37" LCD !!! I didnt even know it was possible. Its not really burn in on the LCD. Turning it off for 24 hours clears it, so its not permanent, but I sure wouldnt want to try that on a Plasma.
> 
> I wouldnt worry about it on the TV inputs, but I would sure turn them all on for the video game input.


My son's Panny plasma is about four years old and he's been playing games on it constantly. I really find it hard to believe, but there is absolutely no sign of burn in at all. It is a 720p set, if that makes a difference. Still has a great picture.

Rich


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## Rikinky

Is it true that for the first 150 to 200 hours I shouldn't watch any sports or news? because of the logos and etc? If so that sucks but I guess I can deal with it?


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## calgary2800

Rikinky said:


> Is it true that for the first 150 to 200 hours I shouldn't watch any sports or news? because of the logos and etc? If so that sucks but I guess I can deal with it?


Total old wives tale. I bought my 58 Samsung 8000 months ago and never did one second of break in or avoided channels with logos. And I cranked up the settings to whatever pleased my eyes.


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## sigma1914

The break-in slides and time have a purpose and that's to help exercise the phosphorus at a quicker rate to be able to calibrate properly.


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## spartanstew

Rikinky said:


> Is it true that for the first 150 to 200 hours I shouldn't watch any sports or news? because of the logos and etc? If so that sucks but I guess I can deal with it?


This used to be the case for Plasmas, but since 2007 (or so) it's no longer recommended or needed.

It's never been needed for LCD's.



sigma1914 said:


> The break-in slides and time have a purpose and that's to help exercise the phosphorus at a quicker rate to be able to calibrate properly.


Correct. If you're going to calibrate the display (which you should), you should either wait until it's past the 200 hour mark (or so), or calibrate it again once it gets there.


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## Rikinky

Ok so I don't have to worry about watching ESPN or any news or LOL, basically anything on tv ? All the networks have Logos on the screen so I was freaking out until I got some comfort from you Plasma owners who have alot more experience. I want to add that I am hooked for life! This picture which is on the 500 series of Samsung Plasma's which I know is an older model is the best picture on a tv I have ever had. I have had the old projection or CRT, LCD, and LED, and by far the picture on this is jaw dropping flawless! the blacks are unbelievable! I was just scared of burn in or image retention. taking back the LED was the best choice I made. I have no regrets after seeing this baby in it's full glory!


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## MrShowtime

I got the 46" 6300 in the corner of my one room and colors and picture are crisp from all room areas. I'm one of those people that love the automotion though.


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## Bradical

glad i read this


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## kucharsk

Burn-in/image retention is real.

My Panasonic Plasma has wobble/orbit and after a few years of watching one station that has a logo in the corner for three hours a day, there's a large, fuzzy version of the logo that can be seen in that corner of the screen when watching other content.

It's not obnoxious, but it _is_ there.

By the way, my plasma's calibrated, not in torch mode.

Now would I get another plasma? Perhaps.

But having to watch 4:3 content in stretch mode sucks sometimes.


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## Hutchinshouse

kucharsk said:


> Burn-in/image retention is real.
> 
> My Panasonic Plasma has wobble/orbit and after a few years of watching one station that has a logo in the corner for three hours a day, there's a large, fuzzy version of the logo that can be seen in that corner of the screen when watching other content.
> 
> It's not obnoxious, but it _is_ there.
> 
> By the way, my plasma's calibrated, not in torch mode.
> 
> Now would I get another plasma? Perhaps.
> 
> But having to watch 4:3 content in stretch mode sucks sometimes.


"Burn in" is the main reason I'm holding off on buying plasma.

The only plasma I'd consider is the Panasonic. However, I've heard countless reports about their black levels diminishing.

I'm seriously looking to upgrade my Sony 52XBR4 to the LG 60LW9500. I may pull the trigger once the reviews start to come about.


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## Hoosier205

LCD/LED is for suckers. If you want superior picture quality...go the plasma route. Burn in is no longer an issue.


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## Earl Bonovich

Hutchinshouse said:


> "Burn in" is the main reason I'm holding off on buying plasma.
> 
> The only plasma I'd consider is the Panasonic. However, I've heard countless reports about their black levels diminishing.
> 
> I'm seriously looking to upgrade my Sony 52XBR4 to the LG 60LW9500. I may pull the trigger once the reviews start to come about.


I had an old school (purchase 8.5 years ago) Plasma.
Over 32,000 hours on it, before I retired it to the basement.

I had some cases of Image Retention, but never one bit of Burn In.
They are two very different things.

(and one time, I fell asleep playing a video game, and the startup screen was up on the screen for about 5 hours.. no burin)

The technology that is in new Plasma's, will even protect you even more from possible Burn In scenerios, to the point that it should not even be a consideration.

That said... I love my LED, glad that I got it... probably won't ever look at a Plasma again.
Guess I am a sucker.


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## Hutchinshouse

Hoosier205 said:


> LCD/LED is for suckers. If you want superior picture quality...go the plasma route. Burn in is no longer an issue.


LCD/LED has come a very long way. Five years ago, yup, plasma smoked LCD. Today the very best plasma is slightly better than the very best LCD/LED.

If not for Panasonic's diminishing black levels (last year's model), I'd be all over it.

Poor black levels bug the F out of me. My 52XBR4 was ok 4 years ago with its 10,000:1 contrast ratio. However, today 10,000:1 sux!

Today's LCD/LED (full array with local dimming) have phenomenal black levels.

This plasma is still an option: Panasonic TC-P65VT30

Tons more research before I bust out the wallet.


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## Hutchinshouse

Earl Bonovich said:


> Guess I am a sucker.


I may be too. Not sure yet.


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## camo

Hutchinshouse said:


> I may be too. Not sure yet.


I must be a sucker also. My plasma tv is retired to Xbox and no longer hooked up to satellite because side by side the LED/LCD picture was much better. I haven't checked out the latest plasma's mainly because of the diminishing blacks reported on Panasonic's. The blacks on LED's are very good and don't fade.


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## Rockaway1836

Well, I must be sucker too. Just went out and got the new 70 inch Sharp on Friday.


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## BarkingGhost

tgater said:


> 2nd here. I don't consider my Sony a waste of my money. I'm very pleased with it so far and my wife(happy wife, happy life)* likes that it doesn't protrude off of the wall*.


So, you could have built a box opening and put in a RPTV and she'd been happy.


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## Jhon69

rich584 said:


> I keep looking a LCD/LED sets and the ones with 240 Hertz seem to have the best displays, but I keep buying Panny plasmas. The new 3D Pannys have magnificent PQ in the 2D mode. Just waiting for the prices to drop on them and I'm gonna get one. Don't care about the 3D feature at all, but I sure want one of those sets.
> 
> Rich


Check out the Vizio M550SV at WalMart.


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## bobukcat

Don't forget that most of those edge LED lit LCDs have screen uniformity issues.


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## kenglish

Just be sure you put all those Torroids on the cables (every last one of them) of your Plasma TV, so it doesn't cause radio and TV interference.

That's all we ask.


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## dmurphy

Jhon69 said:


> Check out the Vizio M550SV at WalMart.


How about this instead?

Just ordered one myself - can't wait to get it in the finished basement/mancave...


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## Jhon69

dmurphy said:


> How about this instead?
> 
> Just ordered one myself - can't wait to get it in the finished basement/mancave...


No Thanks.

Just got rid of my 50"RPTV it used 440 watts.:eek2:

Plasmas electricity use ratings are not impressive,but to each his own.

My Vizio M550SV is rated 82.1 watts.

240Hz/Internet Apps/ So far I'm impressed.


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## dmurphy

Jhon69 said:


> No Thanks.
> 
> Just got rid of my 50"RPTV it used 440 watts.:eek2:
> 
> Plasmas electricity use ratings are not impressive,but to each his own.
> 
> My Vizio M550SV is rated 82.1 watts.
> 
> 240Hz/Internet Apps/ So far I'm impressed.


119W for the TC-P55ST30 model... I don't think that's bad at all.


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## bobukcat

dmurphy said:


> 119W for the TC-P55ST30 model... I don't think that's bad at all.


Nope, not bad at all and at that price it's a hard one to beat for performance! I'm sure you'll enjoy it!


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## bobukcat

kenglish said:


> Just be sure you put all those Torroids on the cables (every last one of them) of your Plasma TV, so it doesn't cause radio and TV interference.
> 
> That's all we ask.


The switching power supplies in my Mits DLP produce way more radio interference than either of my plasmas with absolutely no toroids on any of the cables.


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## mechman

dmurphy said:


> 119W for the TC-P55ST30 model... I don't think that's bad at all.


That is incorrect. Power consumption for the TC-P55ST30 is 397 watts per the user manual.


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## dmurphy

"mechman" said:


> That is incorrect. Power consumption for the TC-P55ST30 is 397 watts per the user manual.


Actually, you are incorrect.

http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/us2011/product/st_plasma_spec.html


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## Laxguy

On Mode Average Power Consumption:

TC-P65ST30: 159 W
TC-P60ST30: 139 W
TC-P55ST30: 119 W
TC-P50ST30: 106 W
TC-P46ST30: 93 W
TC-P42ST30: 79 W

for those who don't want to go back and forth between pages.... (Panny's site)


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## bobukcat

Laxguy said:


> On Mode Average Power Consumption:
> 
> TC-P65ST30: 159 W
> TC-P60ST30: 139 W
> TC-P55ST30: 119 W
> TC-P50ST30: 106 W
> TC-P46ST30: 93 W
> TC-P42ST30: 79 W
> 
> for those who don't want to go back and forth between pages.... (Panny's site)


Makes ya wonder what the settings need to be to reach 397W, max brightness, max volume, etc...


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## mechman

dmurphy said:


> Actually, you are incorrect.
> 
> http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/us2011/product/st_plasma_spec.html


No, the manual is incorrect... or the page above is. I didn't write the manual, Panasonic did. 



bobukcat said:


> Makes ya wonder what the settings need to be to reach 397W, max brightness, max volume, etc...


Or it makes you wonder what settings you have to have to get it all the way down to 119W. 

The only plasma that I have seen that uses less than 200W was a 32" model. I usually bring along my Kill-A-Watt meter to check before/after calibration power use.


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## Jhon69

mechman said:


> No, the manual is incorrect... or the page above is. I didn't write the manual, Panasonic did.
> 
> Or it makes you wonder what settings you have to have to get it all the way down to 119W.
> 
> The only plasma that I have seen that uses less than 200W was a 32" model. I usually bring along my Kill-A-Watt meter to check before/after calibration power use.


Yea Best Buy has it listed at 119W,but like I said to each his own because it's a proven fact the more you conserve the less your bill is,the less your bill is the less the electricity companies make,the less the electricity companies make the more often they apply for a rate increase!!.So now you know the real reason they want you to conserve electricity.

Kind of a Catch 22!.:eek2::nono2:


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## bobukcat

mechman said:


> No, the manual is incorrect... or the page above is. I didn't write the manual, Panasonic did.
> 
> Or it makes you wonder what settings you have to have to get it all the way down to 119W.
> 
> The only plasma that I have seen that uses less than 200W was a 32" model. I usually bring along my Kill-A-Watt meter to check before/after calibration power use.


I've never measured power consumption on any of mine because I just don't really care. I want the best picture, which is why I spent extra to get Pioneer Plasmas while they were still around. Unless it spins the meter off the wall it's not going to be a determining factor when I buy a TV.

I haven't seen this anywhere but I'm curious how many hours of use it would take to recoup the extra money spent on an LED / LCD over plasma.


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## Hutchinshouse

The Panasonic TC-P55VT30 plasma got poor energy ratings. However, CNET gave it a killer *review* for picture quality.

"_Superb all-around picture quality, anchored by the deepest plasma black levels of the year, make the Panasonic TC-PVT30 series the best-performing TV we've tested in 2011_"

Good chance I'll be buying my first plasma in a few months! 55" or 65" that is the question.


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## machavez00

Ok, my 46" Sammy's color wheel croaked. My sister has offered to lend me the money for a new TV. I'm looking at the 46" LED (edge lit)Westinghouse and the 46" LCD insignia both are 120hz

Edit: Frys has this one on sale for $799 LG 47" LED+ a free bluray player. Willl best buy match the price only, or will they throw in the bluray player as well?


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## sigma1914

machavez00 said:


> Ok, my 46" Sammy's color wheel croaked. My sister has offered to lend me the money for a new TV. I'm looking at the 46" LED (edge lit)Westinghouse and the 46" LCD insignia both are 120hz


I wouldn't buy those. If money is a concern and I had to buy a TV, then maybe I'd look at this Sony.

Can you get a Best Buy card? They off interest free payment plans on most TVs, so you can get a much better brand than the 2 you posted. Samsung and Pannasonic have some phenomenal sets.


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## machavez00

sigma1914 said:


> I wouldn't buy those. If money is a concern and I had to buy a TV, then maybe I'd look at this Sony.
> 
> Can you get a Best Buy card? They off interest free payment plans on most TVs, so you can get a much better brand than the 2 you posted. Samsung and Pannasonic have some phenomenal sets.


What about the LG I added? It has internet apps as well.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47...10411734&skuId=2128133#tabbed-customerreviews

We had a BB card and closed it a few years ago. I don't want another card. Sis is interest free as well


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## sigma1914

machavez00 said:


> What about the LG I added? It has internet apps as well.
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47...10411734&skuId=2128133#tabbed-customerreviews
> 
> We had a BB card and closed it a few years ago. I don't want another card. Sis is interest free as well


I'd definitely consider that set.


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## machavez00

Is 1080/24p mode important? I went down to my local BB and looked at all three sets and they were very close. The Insignia (WAF :allthumbs) has 24p mode, as does the LG, the Westinghouse doesn't.


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## sigma1914

machavez00 said:


> Is 1080/24p mode important? I went down to my local BB and looked at all three sets and they were very close. The Insignia (WAF :allthumbs) has 24p mode, as does the LG, the Westinghouse doesn't.


Get the LG...The other 2 are very sub par. As for 1080/24p...that's for BluRay material (and some PPV if you care).


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## machavez00

we'll see what we can do with out getting another card.


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## machavez00

We went with the LG 47LV5500 at Fry's. It came with a _Toshiba_ :lol: BluRay player. BB wouldn't price match Fry's because they were including an Xbox 360. (The Manager said that was too big a price difference?)I have am HR20-700, PS3 and a Toshiba HD-DVD player connected. I watch a little of Serenity on HD-DVD and it looks like live video. Even The recording of District 9 has the same look. I used the Picture Wizard for now. I left my copy of Digital Video Essentials at my in laws. We go out there next week.


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## mechman

That's a good choice.


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## bobukcat

machavez00 said:


> We went with the LG 47LV5500 at Fry's. It came with a _Toshiba_ :lol: BluRay player. BB wouldn't price match Fry's because they were including an Xbox 360. (The Manager said that was too big a price difference?)I have am HR20-700, PS3 and a Toshiba HD-DVD player connected. I watch a little of Serenity on HD-DVD and it looks like live video. Even The recording of District 9 has the same look. I used the Picture Wizard for now. I left my copy of Digital Video Essentials at my in laws. We go out there next week.


Are you saying content that should look like film looks like video?? If so you probably have to turn off the "motion enhancement" or whatever they call it on the LG sets. To eliminate motion blur they "create" additional lines in the picture and this can lead to the dreaded "Soap Opera" effect on 24P content.


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## machavez00

Funny, that how my wife described it!


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## Hutchinshouse

CNET just released their Sony XBR-HX929 (LCD-LED) review.

Quote from review: "produces deeper black levels than any current LCD or plasma TV".

Considering the current Samsung and Panasonic flagship plasmas, that quote is almost unbelievable. It seems LCD-LED technology is capable of better black levels than plasma. I didn't think that was possible.

Now I really cannot wait for the flagship LG LCD-LED with Nano technology. Nano has the potential to have even better blacks than this flagship Sony.

Review link


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## machavez00

After using the ISF calibrated expert setting obtained from CNET via AVS, I am quite pleased with my LG 47LV5500 Infinia. I watched some EWTN videos using the YouTube app and they looked better than watching EWTN on channel 370.

Pre and post cal measurements


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## mechman

Cnet's set looks pretty darn good! Wonder what your's would measure out at?


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## Jhon69

I have found so far with my Vizio M550SV that the reviews on edge lit LED/LCD HDTVs and back lit LED/LCD HDTVs that the recommendation to turn the back light way down is a very good idea.It improves the black levels and uniformity and increases the life span of the light source of the HDTV at the same time.

Having a 50" CRT RPTV before and now a 55" LED/LCD HDTV there is definitely a WOW! factor.I also turned down my Contrast Settings also as my picture preference is a clearer picture with deeper colors.But when you turn down the back light your viewing angles do become restricted so the HDTV's owner will need to take that in consideration also when setting up any flat screen HDTV.


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## harsh

Jhon69 said:


> It improves the black levels and uniformity and increases the life span of the light source of the HDTV at the same time.


At 8 hours a day, the better LED lamps are expected to last (no lower than 70% output) for over 16 years.

Modern CE gear seems to be designed to last less than half that long.


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## Hutchinshouse

This new Elite LCD supposedly has the best black levels ever. From what I've read, better than the flagship Kuro plasma. Off angle on this Elite is supposedly better than any LCD.

Time will tell.

*Link*


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## Jhon69

harsh said:


> At 8 hours a day, the better LED lamps are expected to last (no lower than 70% output) for over 16 years.
> 
> Modern CE gear seems to be designed to last less than half that long.


Since I watch TV almost 18 hours a day I will find out if that's true.


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## Jhon69

Since my new HDTV was a gift I would have to say"I like it".


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## mtoth101

I gotta say that my panasonic p50gt25 3d set is the best picture I've seen. Ran the break in slides for 200 hours before watching anything. And have had absolutely no burn in or image retention whatsoever. Plus I always watch in thx mode because the color gamut can't be beat.


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## Earl Bonovich

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have that exact model on my TV, for nearly 6 months now.
> And have to completely disagree.
> 
> I went from a plasma to this LED, and it is totally day and night.
> 
> I love the 6300.
> 
> I have neraly the opposite opinion. The colors are crisp and vibrant.
> I personally don't like any 120mhz mode, so I turned it off. (I haven't seen an implementation that I have liked on any unit).


So turning around over a year later.....

The TV is still one of the better TV's I have ever purchased... Great Picture.

I do like my new Sharp Aquous though... and I would seriously have to consider the 70" model if I ever get the itch to upgrade.


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## texasmoose

Earl Bonovich said:


> So turning around over a year later.....
> 
> The TV is still one of the better TV's I have ever purchased... Great Picture.
> 
> I do like my new Sharp Aquous though... and I would seriously have to consider the 70" model if I ever get the itch to upgrade.


Why don't u opt for the new 'Elite' Pro 70-X5 Sharp Panel(Winner of the 2011 HDTV Shootout @ Value Electronics)? Certainly a lot better than the Aquos class............more expen$ive too.


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## texasmoose

Hutchinshouse said:


> This new Elite LCD supposedly has the best black levels ever. From what I've read, better than the flagship Kuro plasma. Off angle on this Elite is supposedly better than any LCD.


It better have better blacks than the KURO for the price their asking!:nono2:


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## Earl Bonovich

texasmoose said:


> ............more expen$ive too.


I broke the bank once on a TV (My first plasma 9 years ago)... I think in many ways, I am still paying for it.

Form/Function/Price all play a factor, and #3 often has most of the play.


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## F1 Fan

Earl Bonovich said:


> So turning around over a year later.....
> 
> The TV is still one of the better TV's I have ever purchased... Great Picture.
> 
> I do like my new Sharp Aquous though... and I would seriously have to consider the 70" model if I ever get the itch to upgrade.


Earl: Did you get the Quattron? Do you notice better colors with it?

I looked at the 60inch and 70 inch side by side and there is just too much dimming towards the edges on the 70 inch for my liking.

So I am stuck between the 60inch Quattron and a 65 inch VIZIO 3D (at twice the price though). Be interested to hear your thoughts on the Sharp. Which size did you get?


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## Earl Bonovich

F1 Fan said:


> Earl: Did you get the Quattron? Do you notice better colors with it?
> 
> I looked at the 60inch and 70 inch side by side and there is just too much dimming towards the edges on the 70 inch for my liking.
> 
> So I am stuck between the 60inch Quattron and a 65 inch VIZIO 3D (at twice the price though). Be interested to hear your thoughts on the Sharp. Which size did you get?


Yes, I got the 40" Quattron. For the bedroom.
I do see a difference between my samsung...
But it is hard to tell if it is the 4th color that is making the difference, or the size, or the room...

Too many variables to define the difference...
But I really LOVE the picture of the Quattron.


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## Rockaway1836

F1 Fan, check out the Sharp 70 inch 632 series. It's a non-Quatron model, and can be had for under $2000 if you catch the right sale. I own the 70 inch 732 series which is a Quatron, and the 80 inch 632 which is not. The 80 inch shows no dark corners at all. I have read just one report over at AVS of someone claiming to have seen the dark corners on the 70-632. No one else has reported seeing it though. I have seen the 70-632 in store myself, and saw no such issue. But my interest was more in the 80 inch. So I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking it over.


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## calgary2800

I recently dived into this LED Tv world and LOVE it. I was a plasma guy for years and wanted something bright, sharp and vivid while keeping that Plasma richness. I found it and than some in a dont laugh a 2010 refurbished Samsung C8000 LED. After hours of tweaking the set using online settings for the set, I love the pop of the set. Yeah yeah the viewing angle is a joke but come in I knew that from the start and I only watch TV from the front, I dont think I've ever viewed any of my plasmas from the sides ever. 

I feel today's high end LEDs have much brighter images and blacks on par with plasmas. Its the best of both worlds minus the crap viewing angle. I dont think I will ever buy a Plasma again, for reference I have a Panasonic S2 and C8000 Samsung in the house. 

Now, If I was richer I would jump on the 55 Sony XBR right about now.


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## bobukcat

calgary2800 said:


> I recently dived into this LED Tv world and LOVE it. I was a plasma guy for years and wanted something bright, sharp and vivid while keeping that Plasma richness. I found it and than some in a dont laugh a 2010 refurbished Samsung C8000 LED. After hours of tweaking the set using online settings for the set, I love the pop of the set. Yeah yeah the viewing angle is a joke but come in I knew that from the start and I only watch TV from the front, I dont think I've ever viewed any of my plasmas from the sides ever.
> 
> I feel today's high end LEDs have much brighter images and blacks on par with plasmas. Its the best of both worlds minus the crap viewing angle. I dont think I will ever buy a Plasma again, for reference I have a Panasonic S2 and C8000 Samsung in the house.
> 
> Now, If I was richer I would jump on the 55 Sony XBR right about now.


I'm glad you're happy with your purchase but unless I was buying a TV for a room with very bright ambient lighting and only a couple of seating positions directly in front of the set I would still choose plasma, especially since you can usually buy one cheaper than an LED / LCD. I'll also add that while the best LED / LCDs can meet (and sometimes beat) plasma on measured black level they still don't usually provide the same dark level detail due to blooming as each pixel is still not individually lit like they are in plasma.

Choices are a great thing and to each his own, I don't want you to infer I think anyone who buys LED / LCD made a mistake. If that's what you like / want more power to you!!


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## Laxguy

I really think screen real estate (size!) comes into play: Smaller sets do great with LED or LCD; plasmas seem more suited to larger sets, esp. as to motion blur. At least that's what I determined for me two years ago when I replaced my sets.


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