# Season Pass capability?



## stratocaster1422 (Sep 27, 2006)

So I am a complete DirecTV and DVR noob. I'm looking into signing up with DirecTV and would like a Tivo type box. I was originally looking into building a HTPC because I don't want to pay a monthly charge. Although, the monthly charge may be tolerable since I get the new R15 box for free if I sign up right now.

Does the R15 have a "season pass" capability like the older DirecTV Tivos? I am a huge fan of that capability and would like to have that.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I've never had Tivo, but from what I've heard the R15's interface is much different from Tivo. The R15 has SL's that allow you to set a series to record. They are channel specific, though, and there's a problem with the logic. When set to First Run only, they frequently record repeats.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

The R15 equivalent to Season Passes are the Series Links. They are roughly the same except for the fact that the R15 has a limit of 50 SLs. Tivos have no limit. Tivos allow you to keep 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 or all episodes for a series, R15s allow 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and all. The First Run/Repeat logic on the SLs doesn't work as well as the Tivo units. Some times, for some shows the R15 records repeats when the Tivo doesn't.

The only other item that comes to mind is the "Keep Until" and "Keep at Most" logic. On the R15 if you setup a SL with Keep at Most set to, say 5, it doesn't matter what you set Keep Until to. Both "I Delete" and "Disk Full" do the same and keep the last 5 shows, automatically deleting the oldest. I'm sure most folks don't even use this feature and we don't even know if DTV considers this a bug or normal operation.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Ah qwerty, that's right. On a Tivo you can setup SPs for The Simpsons on every channel it's aired. On the R15 you can only setup a SL for one channel.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> The R15 equivalent to Season Passes are the Series Links. They are roughly the same except for the fact that the R15 has a limit of 50 SLs. Tivos have no limit. Tivos allow you to keep 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 or all episodes for a series, R15s allow 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and all. The First Run/Repeat logic on the SLs doesn't work as well as the Tivo units. Some times, for some shows the R15 records repeats when the Tivo doesn't.
> 
> The only other item that comes to mind is the "Keep Until" and "Keep at Most" logic. On the R15 if you setup a SL with Keep at Most set to, say 5, it doesn't matter what you set Keep Until to. Both "I Delete" and "Disk Full" do the same and keep the last 5 shows, automatically deleting the oldest. I'm sure most folks don't even use this feature and we don't even know if DTV considers this a bug or normal operation.


I should probably just experiment with this my self, but what happens if you have the SL set to keep until disk full, but then you go through and set individual episodes to keep until I delete after they've been recorded? Does the R15 delete those recordings when it's met the Keep at most? If so DTV should conisider this a bug. I use Keep Until Delete very frequently, how else can you be sure something sticks around until you get the chance to watch it if your dvr is getting full?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

The release notes from two updates ago states 

"Keep Until I Delete items are not 'counted' with regards to limits set by Series Link settings" 

I assume that only applies to individual recordings marked keep (as you described). Otherwise a keep until I delete SL would quickly overrun the entire box. But I've never gotten around to running any tests.

BTW, this deleting of keep until I delete recordings is exactly how the HR20 functions. Since there's supposedly no common code between them, I can't imagine they made the same mistake twice, so I think this is by design.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

walters said:


> The release notes from two updates ago states
> 
> "Keep Until I Delete items are not 'counted' with regards to limits set by Series Link settings"
> 
> ...


The way it SHOULD function is to stop recording that particular SL if it's met it's keep at most. :nono2:


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

You won't get any argument from me on that.

Having said that, do what you describe on a TiVo and it will continue recording that Season Pass. Making any change to an episode's keep status (even keeping it for an additional day) detaches it from the SP for the purposes of counting keep at most. 

So if you have a SP keep at most 3, until space needed and you go and mark the current three as until I delete (or, again, even extend the expiration date), eventually you'll have six episodes. The three you changed will stick around until space is needed (or forever if you said until I delete). The other three will continue the FIFO of always having three onhand.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I would actually like to see it as a setting where you can say keep 5 oldest or keep 5 newest.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> I would actually like to see it as a setting where you can say keep 5 oldest or keep 5 newest.


That's exactly what you'd have if they fixed keep until I delete.

Keep until I delete = keep oldest
Keep until space needed = keep newest


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

This sounds, again, like 'stupid design choice' rather than 'bug'.

KAM is a space management feature.
KUID is a data protection feature. 

In a data protection vs. space management conflict, data protection should always win.

If KAM is reached and they are all KUID, probably the most correct behavior is indeed, stop recording new episodes: "You told me to record at most 5. I have 5. You told me not to delete them. I will not delete them." 

One might also make an argument for 'exceed KAM limits and keep recording but record the over-limit episodes as KUDF'. That way it could continue to record shows as it was instructed to without danger of filling the drive: "You told me to stop at 5, but you also told me to record the show. As long as I can do it without filling up the drive and causing other problems, I will record the show for you."

But the choice to 'delete shows I was specifically told to keep' is just bad design. Bad bad bad.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

walters said:


> You won't get any argument from me on that.
> 
> Having said that, do what you describe on a TiVo and it will continue recording that Season Pass. Making any change to an episode's keep status (even keeping it for an additional day) detaches it from the SP for the purposes of counting keep at most.
> 
> So if you have a SP keep at most 3, until space needed and you go and mark the current three as until I delete (or, again, even extend the expiration date), eventually you'll have six episodes. The three you changed will stick around until space is needed (or forever if you said until I delete). The other three will continue the FIFO of always having three onhand.


Sorry if you misunderstood, my last comment was more directed to directv, not you. Yeah I agree that is what happened. I proposed my scenario as kind of a work around to see if there was anyway to actually keep an epsiode if you want. However (and you probably already know this) on a tivo if you KUID a sesaon pass and it reaches its KAM, it stops recording. I would much prefer this type of behavior, as its great for some shows you like to keep on hand, but don't necessarily care about the order or seeing every show. That way you can just keep 2-3 shows without it recording it everytime it's on.

It's really two sepearte issues.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Sorry if you misunderstood, my last comment was more directed to directv, not you.


Yes, I figured. I just wanted my preference known since we haven't had a good KAM/KUID debate for a long time (long before I actually got an R15).


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

skaeight said:


> I should probably just experiment with this my self, but what happens if you have the SL set to keep until disk full, but then you go through and set individual episodes to keep until I delete after they've been recorded? Does the R15 delete those recordings when it's met the Keep at most? If so DTV should conisider this a bug. I use Keep Until Delete very frequently, how else can you be sure something sticks around until you get the chance to watch it if your dvr is getting full?


Changing an existing recording to "Keep Until I Delete" will do just that regardless of the SL.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> I assume that only applies to individual recordings marked keep (as you described). Otherwise a keep until I delete SL would quickly overrun the entire box. But I've never gotten around to running any tests.


You have a good point there. I would hope it would. I wonder if it would if you removed the blue k and adding back in a keep untill I delete SL?


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> This sounds, again, like 'stupid design choice' rather than 'bug'.
> 
> KAM is a space management feature.
> KUID is a data protection feature.
> ...


This function works exactly the same as the TiVo disk management. You basically choose from three priority levels of recorded programs.

1) Keep at Most (Space Management) = Priority 3. Usefull for keeping disk space free, allowing room for other programs. Good for news and other recurring programs where keeping older recordings is not as important as new ones.

2) Keep until Disk Full (Compromise of SM vs DP) = Priority 2. Let the disk fill up before deleting any of the episodes. Useful for recording series you want to see, but wouldn't want to keep from recording other programs if disk space is unavailable.

3) Keep until I Delete (Data Protection) = Priority 1. Never delete. Sets the recording to take precadence over any other selected recordings. 
Excellent for Steeler's Games!


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

BattleScott said:


> 3) Keep until I Delete (Data Protection) = Priority 1. Never delete. Sets the recording to take precadence over any other selected recordings.
> Excellent for Steeler's Games!


Except that this is not how it works. It *will* delete a show marked keep until I delete provided 1) the SL itself is keep until I delete, and 2) an episode is being recorded that would exceed the keep at most limit.

So it works exactly like TiVo except that there's an exception to keep until I delete.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> This function works exactly the same as the TiVo disk management. You basically choose from three priority levels of recorded programs.


Unless I misunderstand what Wolfpack said, I don't think so.

If I read correctly (and I haven't tried it myself), if you set a SL on the R15 to keep at most 3 episodes, and to Keep Until I Delete, then when episode 4 comes on, the R15 will erase epsiode 1, despite it being set to Keep Until I Delete.

On the Tivo, if you set a SP to keep at most 3 episodes and to keep until I delete, it will record 3 episodes, and unless you delete one of the three or change a setting, it will not record anymore.

If this is correct, then, to paraphrase Frankenstien's monster: "Tivo good. R15 bad."


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

walters said:


> Except that this is not how it works. It *will* delete a show marked keep until I delete provided 1) the SL itself is keep until I delete, and 2) an episode is being recorded that would exceed the keep at most limit.
> 
> So it works exactly like TiVo except that there's an exception to keep until I delete.


Right, so there is a cascading priority setting. The 'Most Recent' 5 episodes will be kept until you delete them. For complete protection , set KAM for All Episodes and KU to I delete.

The only way this would be a 'problem' is if you set the individual episode as KUID.
That should override the SL setup (for that episode only).

I haven't tried that particular function.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

It all comes down to what "keep until I delete" means. I think it means never, under any circumstances should you delete this *specific* recording unless I'm there in front of the box with remote in hand telling you to do so. Given that, keep at most X and keep until I delete requires halting the recording of that SP/SL once you reach X and until the user explicitly deletes one or more episodes.



BattleScott said:


> For complete protection , set KAM for All Episodes and KU to I delete.


That's an extremely dangerous thing to do. Can you say "marathon weekend" (which tend to happen while you're likely to be out of town)?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

walters said:


> It all comes down to what "keep until I delete" means. I think it means never, under any circumstances should you delete this *specific* recording unless I'm there in front of the box with remote in hand telling you to do so.


I agree.


> Given that, keep at most X and keep until I delete requires halting the recording of that SP/SL once you reach X and until the user explicitly deletes one or more episodes.


Right, like I said above, I could make an argument for whether the rule to enforce KAM limits should take priority over the rule to record what it's told to record or not, but I can't see how deleting something marked "don't delete" is ever ok.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

For grins I just went into a SL that had KAM = ALL and KUDF. I had 19 recordings in MYVOD. I changed KAM to 5 and the unit deleted 13 of the recordings leaving 6. Why not 5? I have now flagged those 6 as KUID. Another episode is set to record at 1:00pm today so we'll see if it deletes one of those shows or records a 7th show. The SL is still set for KUDF.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I've got one KAM5 that has 9 and another KAM5 that has 7 (both consistently, as they continue to record and delete), so I don't trust KAM very much.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> For grins I just went into a SL that had KAM = ALL and KUDF. I had 19 recordings in MYVOD. I changed KAM to 5 and the unit deleted 13 of the recordings leaving 6. Why not 5?


WAIT A MINTUE. I'm assume it didn't warn you either that it was going to delete those either? How does Tivo handle this? I would have expected a warning message or expected it set those 19 to the side and not record anymore or something like that. It should never delete things with out warning you or it should keep them. That would suck if you didn't know and hadn't watch those.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> WAIT A MINTUE. I'm assume it didn't warn you either that it was going to delete those either? How does Tivo handle this? I would have expected a warning message or expected it set those 19 to the side and not record anymore or something like that. It should never delete things with out warning you or it should keep them. That would suck if you didn't know and hadn't watch those.


I can only speak for the DirectTivo (not the standalone units), but really, DirectTivo didn't have this much configurability. You just set the SP for what mode you wanted (KUID, KUDF, KAMn) and it went from there. I never had any message from the KAM limits, it would just delete the oldest and record the newest (always correct number). The warnings were always displayed when there was not enough space, it would put up message saying it needed to delete 'Program A' to make room for a recording, do you want to Y/N.

As for which setting should take precidence, I think it works logically the way it is now. Specifying KAM5 tells the DVR you only want to keep 5 epsiodes of a program on disk (in my mind, the 5 most recent makes more sense than keeping old ones), setting the SL for KUID specifies that you dont want it to delete any of those 5 episodes. If you add to that the 'Prioritizer' function, you have almost complete control of the fate of any recorded program.

Now, whether it actually works ,'correctly'... I think there might be a thread or two about that already...


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> WAIT A MINTUE. I'm assume it didn't warn you either that it was going to delete those either? How does Tivo handle this? I would have expected a warning message or expected it set those 19 to the side and not record anymore or something like that. It should never delete things with out warning you or it should keep them. That would suck if you didn't know and hadn't watch those.


I just have DTIVO keep all recordings instead of 5 or 10 recordings, my wife records days and passions but doesnt get to watch them right away, so its not unusual to have 8 or 10 episodes in the folders.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> As for which setting should take precidence, I think it works logically the way it is now. [. . .] Now, whether it actually works ,'correctly'... I think there might be a thread or two about that already...


So you're assuming that it's designed to work as we keep saying it should, and that the fact that it deletes stuff that is set to KUID is a bug, not an intentional behavior?


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> So you're assuming that it's designed to work as we keep saying it should, and that the fact that it deletes stuff that is set to KUID is a bug, not an intentional behavior?


I don't think so, but to clarify, I don't think it is a bug to do what it does. When you set the KUID for the overall SL you are saying to keep whatever is in this group until I delete it. By setting the KAM=5 episodes, you are saying that you only want, at most, 5 episodes in that group. So, logically, no matter what, it will not delete ony of those 5 episodes.

As to whether that is the 'right way' or not is subjective. But, it makes sense to me. As for whether it actually performs those functions correctly, thjat is another matter.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> I don't think so, but to clarify, I don't think it is a bug to do what it does. When you set the KUID for the overall SL you are saying to keep whatever is in this group until I delete it. By setting the KAM=5 episodes, you are saying that you only want, at most, 5 episodes in that group. So, logically, no matter what, it will not delete ony of those 5 episodes.


But it DOES delete them. Thats' the problem.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

BattleScott said:


> I don't think so, but to clarify, I don't think it is a bug to do what it does. When you set the KUID for the overall SL you are saying to keep whatever is in this group until I delete it. By setting the KAM=5 episodes, you are saying that you only want, at most, 5 episodes in that group. So, logically, no matter what, it will not delete ony of those 5 episodes.
> 
> As to whether that is the 'right way' or not is subjective. But, it makes sense to me. As for whether it actually performs those functions correctly, thjat is another matter.


But the R15 does delete shows marked as KUID.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

BattleScott said:


> The warnings were always displayed when there was not enough space, it would put up message saying it needed to delete 'Program A' to make room for a recording, do you want to Y/N.


I understand it not doing it when you setup the SL's but Wolffpack was talking about changing it from ALL to 5 after it the SL was setup. Then I would hope it would give you a warning (if you had more than 5 in the group)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Tivos work the same way. If you change KAM to a lower number it will immediately delete recordings if there are more in Now Playing than the new KAM.

Why the R15 left 6 instead of 5? I have no idea.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Tivos work the same way. If you change KAM to a lower number it will immediately delete recordings if there are more in Now Playing than the new KAM.
> 
> Why the R15 left 6 instead of 5? I have no idea.


But does it give a warning?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Nope.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> But the R15 does delete shows marked as KUID.


Are you saying it will delete them randomly, or when it records the 6th episode of that series?

I have only seen it delete when it records more than the KAM number. like TiVo.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

BattleScott said:


> Are you saying it will delete them randomly, or when it records the 6th episode of that series?
> 
> I have only seen it delete when it records more than the KAM number. like TiVo.


OK, let's try this again. TiVo will never in a million years delete a recording marked keep until I delete. Never. No matter what. Under any circumstances.

Did I mention never?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Like walters says. Tivo will stop recording new shows if KAM=5 and KUID and there are 5 shows. R15 will continue deleting shows and recording the new ones. Hense the Keep Until has no meaning when KAM <> All.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Maybe the third time's a charm:

Like Walter and Wolf says, Tivo WILL NOT delete a show marked "Keep until I delete." Not when the 6th episode comes in, not ever until the user tells it to. The R15 WILL. That's the difference! That's what we're talking about!

This is starting to sound like a routine from The Electric Company.
(People who didn't grow up in the NYC metro area during the 70's will have no idea what I mean.)


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

walters said:


> OK, let's try this again. TiVo will never in a million years delete a recording marked keep until I delete. Never. No matter what. Under any circumstances.
> 
> Did I mention never?


OK, Let's try this:

Set a Series Link for KUID. This means that no recordings inside this series link can be deleted by the need for disk space to record programs from ANOTHER SL or recording task. It does not automatically mark all subsequent recordings within that SL as KUID. The KAM setting, or manually changing a recording's keep until setting, determines the life span of the recording within that SL. By setting it to KAM 5, you are giving it permission to delete the oldest episode to make space for the new one.

The only way this could be considered a 'bug' is if it deleted a program in violation of either:
A) The KAM setting of the SL (deleting the 5th episode leaving 4)
B) A recordings individual setting. (after setting an individual to KUID)
or,
C) In reponse to an outside task, other SL or other manual recording. 
If this is happening, it may be as a result of the 'Prioritizer' settings and not
the SL settings.

I haven't seen it do any of those yet, but i only have 2 SLs that are on a KAM 5, and haven't really pushed the 100 hr limit as of yet. 
If you are seeing A,B or C then yes indeed there is a bug, or should I say, another bug. Otherwise, I would say we just disagree on how it 'Should' work.

_Never say Never..._


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

No, you are rationalizing and making stuff up. Look at the settings screen for the Series Links. The options are for what shows will be be recorded, not what is already recorded. I think it even says "Episodes will be recorded with these settings:" in the manual. If one of those settings is KUID, then anything that deletes them is wrong. Either a design flaw or a bug.

Next thing you'll be saying that black screens are the correct behavior: "Oh, no, 'play' doesn't mean 'play and let me me see it' ...."

C'mon. It does NOT work like Tivo. It deletes stuff that you told it not to. Accept it and move on.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I don't get this argument any more. BattleScott: we know all that about the R15. That's what we've been saying. The only thing I'm debating is your earlier "like TiVo" remark. It doesn't function like TiVo. That's the whole point.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> No, you are rationalizing and making stuff up. Look at the settings screen for the Series Links. The options are for what shows will be be recorded, not what is already recorded. I think it even says "Episodes will be recorded with these settings:" in the manual. If one of those settings is KUID, then anything that deletes them is wrong. Either a design flaw or a bug.
> 
> Next thing you'll be saying that black screens are the correct behavior: "Oh, no, 'play' doesn't mean 'play and let me me see it' ...."
> 
> C'mon. It does NOT work like Tivo. It deletes stuff that you told it not to. Accept it and move on.


No, it says 'all episodes on this channel are scheduled to record'.

The only thing I said works like TiVo is the KAM, if I said to keep at most 5 it would delete the oldest one without asking.
It would also tell me I needed to delete recordings to make room for other ones when I had 20 hrs left, so I guess since the R-15 doesn't do that, it must be a bug too.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

walters said:


> I don't get this argument any more. BattleScott: we know all that about the R15. That's what we've been saying. The only thing I'm debating is your earlier "like TiVo" remark. It doesn't function like TiVo. That's the whole point.


Because it doesn't function like TiVo doesn't automatically make it wrong, or a bug. And for the record, I am currently on the market for an R-10 to replace this pile of crap R-15 with.
Black screens-wrong, stuck time bars-wrong, missed recordings-wrong...

This is one thing that I think works 'more correctly' than TiVo does.

I guess I just see it as setting an EPISODE KAM < all as giving it permission to override the SL KUID setting and delete the oldest recording. In my opinion, if I am recording a series and haven't watched the first 5 episodes, i think it should delete the oldest and record the newest. If I was concerned about missing a single episode I would set it for keep all.
That's all i'm saying, if you don't agree, that's fine, I will find a way to move on...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

BattleScott said:


> Because it doesn't function like TiVo doesn't automatically make it wrong, or a bug. And for the record, I am currently on the market for an R-10 to replace this pile of crap R-15 with.
> Black screens-wrong, stuck time bars-wrong, missed recordings-wrong...
> 
> This is one thing that I think works 'more correctly' than TiVo does.
> ...


This it getting REAL stupid. I don't care if I've got a Tivo, R15, UTV or ReplayTV. It I say don't delete a show until I tell you to delete it, and my DVR does delete it, that ain't right. KAM doesn't mean anything. The bottom line here is that the R15 will delete shows. How many different folks need to agree here. Keep Until I Delete should mean just that. Keep Until I Delete doesn't mean the DVR can do it if it feels like it. I'm not sure what universe you grew up in, but need I say again.... KUID means KUID....period. No exceptions. No If's. No nothing. If KUID doesn't mean KUID then KAM may not mean KAM. Nothing may or may not mean nothing.

Sorry, just finding a hard time following your complete lack of logic here.

BTW, you can still accomplish the example you listed above by coding it as KUDF. Then you will have your last 5 episodes. But KUID will also give you the last 5 episodes on the R15. And the point you're missing is ........ok I've said it enough.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> No, it says 'all episodes on this channel are scheduled to record'.


I said 'in the manual' Page 27. Look closely. They've since changed the UI, but it makes the intention clear. It's not important. It's clear to everyone but you. You're the only one suggesting that when you go to set up a new series link that obviouly has nothing recorded yet, it gives you settings that are only supposed to apply to that pre-existing set of nothing. :nono2: again, I say :nono2:.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> KAM doesn't mean anything.


I havent been following this much but I have about 20 shows marked with a K.

Are you saying the R-15 will still delete them ? I plan to burn them to DVD soon, just have not found the time. Maybe I need to find time soon.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I havent been following this much but I have about 20 shows marked with a K.
> 
> Are you saying the R-15 will still delete them ? I plan to burn them to DVD soon, just have not found the time. Maybe I need to find time soon.


No, I've never seen the R15 delete anything flagged as K unless you also have KAM set to something other than ALL. If KAM is set to 5 and the SL is set to KUID the R15 will delete the oldest show when it goes to record the 6th one.

It also appears to break the SL link once you manually press the BLUE button to keep a show.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> I said 'in the manual' Page 27. Look closely. They've since changed the UI, but it makes the intention clear. It's not important. It's clear to everyone but you. You're the only one suggesting that when you go to set up a new series link that obviouly has nothing recorded yet, it gives you settings that are only supposed to apply to that pre-existing set of nothing. :nono2: again, I say :nono2:.


No, I'm the only one suggesting that if I tell it to only keep 5 episodes, that I think it is correct to keep the 5 newest episodes regardless of the KUID status. To me the KUID on the SL means that I always want those newest 5 Episodes on Disk. Do not delete them to make room for outside recordings.

So basically, all episodes will have KUID status until they become the 5th 'newest' on disk, at that point, due to the KAM setting of 5 which was MY COMMAND not the R15s) ,it is allowed to delete this recording to make room for the new one.

If it was set up like it has been suggested where KUDF+KAM5 = 5 newest and KUID+KAM5 = 5 oldest, then my 5 newset recordings are in jeopardy of being deleted from low disk space.

And since it already works my way, I really don't care if you think its 'wrong'.

Just because 'Everyone Else' decides to drink the purple Kool-Aide doesn't mean I have to...

You ->  
Me ->


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Nope.


Well that's Dumb. It should at least warn you (both the R15 and Tivo should) it's the same idea of running a system test and it warning you that the buffer is in use. It should warn you that episodes you marked on the Tivo as Keep until I delete will be deleted.



walters said:


> OK, let's try this again. TiVo will never in a million years delete a recording marked keep until I delete. Never. No matter what. Under any circumstances.
> 
> Did I mention never?


Well your not 100% correct (unless Wolffpack got it wrong) it will delete episodes you marked as keep untill I delete if you you change the Keep X number of episodes to a lower number (with out warning).

BTW I do agree with walters and Wolffpack, the Keep untill I delete (5,4,3,2 or 1) should stop recording and keep only the oldests and keep only (5,4,3,2, or 1) should only keep the newest.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Could this be "by design" and not a flaw ? Seems like it could be working perfectly the way they meant it to and just some want it to work like TiVo and its not a Tivo. Maybe this is how it is supposed to work and you just have to get used to how the R-15 works as compared to the DirecTiVos.

Similar to the partial recordings. To some, like me, I consider this a flaw and would rather not have anything recorded but to others its a great thing and they want something rather than nothing.

I think we need to stop comparing it how a DirecTiVo does things and just get used to how it does what it does. It might make it a lot easier on some.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Well your not 100% correct (unless Wolffpack got it wrong) it will delete episodes you marked as keep untill I delete if you you change the Keep X number of episodes to a lower number (with out warning).


The Tivo WILL NOT DELETE shows marked KUID.

The behavior wolfpack was describing was for SPs NOT marked KUID.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ApK said:


> The behavior wolfpack was describing was for SPs NOT marked KUID.


Correct.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Oops missed that. :eek2:


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Could this be "by design" and not a flaw ? ..............
> I think we need to stop comparing it how a DirecTiVo does things and just get used to how it does what it does. It might make it a lot easier on some.


I don't think I makes sense that they'd have two ways to setup a recording and have them get the same results. I don't even think this a "Tivo does it this way" thing, I think other DVR's do the same thing.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

ApK said:


> The Tivo WILL NOT DELETE shows marked KUID.
> 
> The behavior wolfpack was describing was for SPs NOT marked KUID.


Ok, maybe i asked the ? wrong when I asked Wolffpack before. What I was trying to ask was, if you have a SP set as KUID all and then change the SP to KUID 5 and you have 11 shows in there what will the SP do? Will it delete 6 of them an have 5, will it warn you, or something else?

I was trying to see what the Tivo did compared to the R15. Wolffpack said that the R15 would delete 6 of them and leave you with 5 without warning (or leave you with 6 for some reason). Hopefully I was clearer this time. I thought this is what I asked before.

EDIT



Wolffpack said:


> Tivos work the same way. If you change KAM to a lower number it will immediately delete recordings if there are more in Now Playing than the new KAM.
> 
> Why the R15 left 6 instead of 5? I have no idea.


This is the response I was talking about.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

You said "KUID 5" but I guess you mean "KUID, and KAM 5".

On a Tivo, I believe the answer is: Nothing would happen. Nothing would get deleted, and no more shows will be recorded in that SP.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't tried that specifically, but it's the logical behavior, and Tivo tends to do things in the logical, expected way.

If the SP (or more accurately, the shows already recorded for that SP) aer NOT set to KUID, then it will behave as Wolffpack said.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I was trying to see what the Tivo did compared to the R15. Wolffpack said that the R15 would delete 6 of them and leave you with 5 without warning (or leave you with 6 for some reason). Hopefully I was clearer this time. I thought this is what I asked before.


When I changed the KAM from ALL to 5 that SL was flagged a KUDF. I've setup another SL as KUID and will change KAM down from ALL to something lower once I get a few recorded.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

ApK said:


> You said "KUID 5" but I guess you mean "KUID, and KAM 5".


I believe this is what I'm saying. "KUID, and KAM ALL" then change to "KUID, and KAM 5". WWTD? Too many abbreviations i think I got lost in them all 



Wolffpack said:


> When I changed the KAM from ALL to 5 that SL was flagged a KUDF. I've setup another SL as KUID and will change KAM down from ALL to something lower once I get a few recorded.


Thanks for checking.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Hmmm..if the FAQ doesn't have an abbreviation glossary, it should!

KUID = Keep Until I Delete

KUDF= Keep Until Disk Full (I think on Tivo this is "Keep until space needed")

KAM= Keep At Most

SL = Series Link (R15's Season Pass equivelant)

SP= Seasn Pass (Tivo's Series Link equivelant)

WWTD = What Would Tivo Do? (What the R15 design team should have asked more often to find out how a DVR should work. Usually, the answer to this question = good design)

FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

ApK said:


> Hmmm..if the FAQ doesn't have an abbreviation glossary, it should!


We didn't put one in there. We mostly tried to spell every thing out but that might be a good idea. Right now I just need need more RAM for my brain. I think I was just reading what I wanted.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ApK said:


> WWTD = What Would Tivo Do? (What the R15 design team should have asked more often to find out how a DVR should work. Usually, the answer to this question = good design)


I would have thunk that when DTV made the decision to bring DVR development internal they would have had their design team look at Tivo, UTV and Replay TV. All of which are praised here and all of which have great features. So starting the development of DTV's New Technology DVRs would then be a combination of the best features of the best DVRs (Tivo+UTV+ReplayTV). Instead, DTV's New Technology DVRs are based, in design, XTV.  Just plain pitiful.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

ApK said:


> Hmmm..if the FAQ doesn't have an abbreviation glossary, it should!
> 
> KUID = Keep Until I Delete
> 
> ...


Good suggestion. We'll incorporate one.

Carl


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Good suggestion. We'll incorporate one.
> 
> Carl


Don't forget:

*RBR* = *R*ed *B*utton *R*eset

*DAR* = *D*own *A*rrow *R*eformat

*BSR* = *B*lank *S*creen *R*ecording

*FRB* = *F*ast Forward *R*ewind *B*ullsh...

*FPB* = *F*rozen *P*rogress *B*ar

and for any others

*MSA* = *M*iscellaneous *S*oftware *A*nomaly


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Hmm...I've never seen any of those abrevations before your post.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

qwerty said:


> Hmm...I've never seen any of those abrevations before your post.


I agree. Those are new to me. I've used DA/R for Down Arrow/Record, not Down Arrow Reformat since you press the Dow Arrow and REC buttons. But not DAR for Down Arrow Reformat.

I'm guessing he was JJ (Just Joking). :grin:


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I would have thunk that when DTV made the decision to bring DVR development internal they would have had their design team look at Tivo, UTV and Replay TV. All of which are praised here and all of which have great features. So starting the development of DTV's New Technology DVRs would then be a combination of the best features of the best DVRs (Tivo+UTV+ReplayTV). Instead, DTV's New Technology DVRs are based, in design, XTV.  Just plain pitiful.


Yeah you would think. But for some reason they seemed to think a system that didn't work in the UK would somehow work over here with out an issues. You would figure they would do some comparison testing to other dvrs to see how theirs worked compared to others. Heck every retailer/business that I know of or worked for has comparison shopped or got a rivals equipment to look at and see how it compares to thier service/product/or price. None of that looks like it was done at all (except they might have looked a UTV for a second for the GUI because it looks and feels alot like a UTV)


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I agree. Those are new to me. I've used DA/R for Down Arrow/Record, not Down Arrow Reformat since you press the Dow Arrow and REC buttons. But not DAR for Down Arrow Reformat.
> 
> I'm guessing he was JJ (Just Joking). :grin:


Well, I have seen the abreviation POS used a lot. :lol:


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Pile of Sardines?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

No I think he means Point of Sale


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Well, I have seen the abreviation POS used a lot. :lol:


lol


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