# DECA with HR20-700



## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.


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## j2fast (Jul 15, 2007)

If they are HR20-700's then they should power the deca adapters just fine. I have two HR20-700's with the deca adapters connected to the SAT 1 input and the network jack and MRV is working fine. I assume the tech did this but I did have to reboot both of the HR20's after connecting the deca adapters before everything worked correctly.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

j2fast said:


> If they are HR20-700's then they should power the deca adapters just fine. I have two HR20-700's with the deca adapters connected to the SAT 1 input and the network jack and MRV is working fine. I assume the tech did this but I did have to reboot both of the HR20's after connecting the deca adapters before everything worked correctly.


It did work ok day one, day 2 is when it lost the signal. Re-booting does not fix it. It never finds the Sat. It will only find the sat signal if the deca is not hooked up.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> It did work ok day one, day 2 is when it lost the signal. Re-booting does not fix it. It never finds the Sat. It will only find the sat signal if the deca is not hooked up.


If I understand the HR20-700 hasn't changed.
The only change is connecting the DECA to your router, and this kills the SAT to the HR20.
What does the splitter to DECA router look like? Are all the unused ports on the splitter terminated?


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## j2fast (Jul 15, 2007)

When he added the deca to bridge to your router/internet where in the chain did he add it? As an example here is how mine is laid out:

SWiM LNB
to
SWiM Power Inserter
to
2-way splitter
- One branch of the splitter is the deca adapter that bridges to the net with the PI attached.
- The other branch of the 2-way goes to a 4-splitter that distributes the signal out to my 4 STB's.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

redram38 said:


> I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.


Is your signature correct (well, we know it isn't correct because you say hardwired on Gigabit), specifically, do you still only have 4 DVRs and are on a 8 channel SWM of some sort?

You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with _any_ DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter *between* the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.

I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with _any_ DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter *between* the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.
> 
> I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.


adding a bandstop filter between a receiver and the DECA on this receiver, simply makes no sense. Any filtering needed is being done by the DECA.
The H20-100 is a problem child, for both connecting the DECA AND for getting it networked without a DECA router bridge.
As for the HR20-700, they haven't been "that flaky".
I'm sure there are a few that may have never been networked and may have problems, but this would only be due to the fact these options haven't ever been used before and has NOTHING to do with the DECA upgrade itself.
Add into this perhaps some techs having not come up to speed with DECA and simply swapping in a HR24 is "the shotgun fix".


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

j2fast said:


> When he added the deca to bridge to your router/internet where in the chain did he add it? As an example here is how mine is laid out:
> 
> SWiM LNB
> to
> ...


Hmmm as I recall seeing it, (I am back at work) I think all he did was run a coax cable from the dish to the deca that is hooked to the router. I do not recall seeing a splitter but I could be wrong about this. I will look when I get home. He just called and is bringing someone with him tomorrow to check it out again. Again I may be way off in what he did so I will report back later when I get home.
Thx


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> adding a bandstop filter between a receiver and the DECA on this receiver, simply makes no sense. Any filtering needed is being done by the DECA.


What happens when the Broadband DECA turns on makes no sense. If the HR20-700 works with the DECA attached, but the Broadband DECA off, and doesn't work with the Broadband DECA on, and this behavior remains if the DECA is replaced, one might think the Broadband DECA signal is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner. Inserting a BS filter might work, might not, but can't hurt. It's just another problem determination tool.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> Is your signature correct (well, we know it isn't correct because you say hardwired on Gigabit), specifically, do you still only have 4 DVRs and are on a 8 channel SWM of some sort?
> 
> You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with _any_ DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter *between* the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.
> 
> I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.


I have 4 DVR's and one HD receiver. He used a SWM 16.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> What happens when the Broadband DECA turns on makes no sense. If the HR20-700 works with the DECA attached, but the Broadband DECA off, and doesn't work with the Broadband DECA on, and this behavior remains if the DECA is replaced, one might think the Broadband DECA signal is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner. Inserting a BS filter might work, might not, but can't hurt. It's just another problem determination tool.


this sounds more like there a signal splitting problem and this is why the SAT signal is getting "killed".
I have a problem doing things that make no sense. "It can't hurt" may be true, but why not figure out where the problem is instead of doing things that frankly have zero effect.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> this sounds more like there a signal splitting problem and this is why the SAT signal is getting "killed".
> I have a problem doing things that make no sense. "It can't hurt" may be true, but why not figure out where the problem is instead of doing things that frankly have zero effect.


But it isn't zero effect. The DECA filters some of the 500-600 MHz signal (as much as the engineers thought needed to be filtered). If you cascade a BSF, it filters _more_ of the 500-600 MHz signal, without bothering the satellite signal in or the DC out.

Something we haven't discussed is, depending on what's happening on the OPs wired network, there could be considerably more noise traffic (e.g., broadcasts) flowing on the DECA cloud, so the DECA is more active. So another PD procedure would be to turn on the Broadband DECA without the Home Network connected and see how the HR20-700 works.

I've done this a couple of times


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> But it isn't zero effect. The DECA filters some of the 500-600 MHz signal (as much as the engineers thought needed to be filtered). If you cascade a BSF, it filters _more_ of the 500-600 MHz signal, without bothering the satellite signal in or the DC out.
> 
> Something we haven't discussed is, depending on what's happening on the OPs wired network, there could be considerably more noise traffic (e.g., broadcasts) flowing on the DECA cloud, so the DECA is more active. So another PD procedure would be to turn on the Broadband DECA without the Home Network connected and see how the HR20-700 works.
> 
> I've done this a couple of times


Not sure what you mean by Broadband DECA, but before he hooked up the line from the dish to the deca and then the ethernet to the router (D-Link 655) the HR20-700 worked ok, or if I unhook the deca from the HR20-700 and just run the sat line in by itself it finds the sat signal, but it still does not seem as strong because I get glitches esp on my local CBS station. I will try and unhook the Deca from the router when I get home and see if that helps. The installer also said their was a new SW download that was supposed to fix some of the issues with the HR20-100 and that may be what is wrong with the 700 as well. I won't do that until it is a lost cause because I don't want to lose the recordings


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> Not sure what you mean by Broadband DECA, but before he hooked up the line from the dish to the deca and then the ethernet to the router (D-Link 655) the HR20-700 worked ok, or if I unhook the deca from the HR20-700 and just run the sat line in by itself it finds the sat signal, but it still does not seem as strong because I get glitches esp on my local CBS station. I will try and unhook the Deca from the router when I get home and see if that helps. The installer also said their was a new SW download that was supposed to fix some of the issues with the HR20-100 and that may be what is wrong with the 700 as well. I won't do that until it is a lost cause because I don't want to lose the recordings


Your installer has done something wrong upstream that is killing the signal, when he connected the DECA router to the system.
It would really help to have some eyes on what was done.
He simply could have used 1 too many splitters and has dropped the SAT levels too much down at the -700.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

This sounds EXACTLY like the issues I had with my HR20-700s. Vastly different topology as I converted to dual cascaded SWM8 modules with no DECA but you describe the symptoms exactly as I experienced.

Because I had dual SWM8 units I was able to swap lines about and discovered that if the HR20-700s were not on the power path side they worked fine. I did not have this issue with my H21s or HR22(s) or HR23 receivers. Only the HR20-700s.

It's not a shared opinion here but I suspect certain vintage HR20-700s have some SWM and power issues. My installer (a home theater specialist that does DTV commercial site installs) and the Sonora Designs engineer swear they heard this stated by a DTV engineer.

I have 3 HR20-700s (had 4 but swapped one out for an HR22-100) that all work flawlessly on the non power path module and act up exactly as you describe when on the other. (either not get signal and will not boot, or see signal and boot but have frequent random breakups in the picture and sound)

I'd bet another model HR will work fine but that's just me based on my fun and games converting to SWM:grin:

Don "hope I'm wrong and your HR20 can work" Bolton



redram38 said:


> I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lugnutathome said:


> This sounds EXACTLY like the issues I had with my HR20-700s. Vastly different...


"Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:

"What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

I'll be at a point to test that theory soon as I've got some 4 way and 2 way splitters on order (to replace the 8 ways) although I did experience this from the SWM2 port direct and I was feeling electric current at the wall plate when twisting the coax on/off when on the power path side of the circuit path :eek2:

Oh and when we metered the drops that had the issues they all sat pretty high on the signal levels.

Again VOS thanks for your tireless assistance!

Don "it's either a bad run, a magic spell, or group hallucination:sure:" Bolton



veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:
> 
> "What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
> This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:
> 
> "What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
> This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.


VOS,

There have been a couple of other posts with similar symptomns and it turned out that the broadband DECA was connected backwards.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> VOS,
> 
> There have been a couple of other posts with similar symptomns and it turned out that the broadband DECA was connected backwards.


!rolling
Just goes to show you can't idiot proof everything.
Frankly I don't see how someone could do it. The DECA has a female & male [pigtail] making it REALLY HARD to do that.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

After looking at his set up the deca going into the router has the sat line coming from a 4-way splitter at the dish that goes into the SWM. the coax that would normally go into the receiver sat1 is hooked to a black thing that is plugged into a power outlet. No splitter is anywhere near the router. I unhooked the ethernet from the router and unplugged the deca from the power supply and still no signal is being received by the HR20-700.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

So you have something like this:








but maybe not as many splitters?

and down at the router this:


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

redram38 said:


> Not sure what you mean by Broadband DECA, but before he hooked up the line from the dish to the deca and then the ethernet to the router (D-Link 655) the HR20-700 worked ok, or if I unhook the deca from the HR20-700 and just run the sat line in by itself it finds the sat signal, but it still does not seem as strong because I get glitches esp on my local CBS station. I will try and unhook the Deca from the router when I get home and see if that helps. The installer also said their was a new SW download that was supposed to fix some of the issues with the HR20-100 and that may be what is wrong with the 700 as well. I won't do that until it is a lost cause because I don't want to lose the recordings


Perhaps it's just me, but you are talking about 2 different DECA modules here, aren't you?

1 that is connected from the SWM (through splitter(s)) to the DECA, to the ethernet and power inserter. This is the one that they are callling the broadband DECA. The other that is connected from the SWM (through splitter(s)) to the DECA, to the HR20-700 (both the cat5 cable and coax cable). Is that correct?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DogLover said:


> Perhaps it's just me,


I think it's a slightly bigger system:
HR21-700 1 tb Cavalry 
 HR20-700 
 HR21-100 750 gb Cavalry
 HR21-700 1 Tb Cavalry 
 H21-200


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think it's a slightly bigger system:
> HR21-700 1 tb Cavalry
> HR20-700
> HR21-100 750 gb Cavalry
> ...


I realize that. It's just he kept talking about both unhooking the ethernet and the HR20 from "the deca". Just wanted to make sure that he wasn't saying that the same deca was hooked to the ethernet and his HR20.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> So you have something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everything except the black thing. Mine has one input and is about 1/2 round and about 3 inches long


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> Everything except the black thing. Mine has one input and is about 1/2 round and about 3 inches long


so this:









"down here" looks fine, so it's time to look "up there" [at the SWiM16]


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

Here is the setup


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> Here is the setup


Looks pretty good, but I don't like the tight bends, and what is that on that one cable connecting to the 2-way splitter? the one in the for ground?
The cable has "something" right at the connector.

Is this by chance the coax feed to your problem HR20-700?


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Looks pretty good, but I don't like the tight bends, and what is that on that one cable connecting to the 2-way splitter? the one in the for ground?
> The cable has "something" right at the connector.
> 
> Is this by chance the coax feed to your problem HR20-700?


It was just some dirt that rubbed off. It is connected to a diff DVR. I think I may just have a Bad receiver. I am trying to download the NR software and it is stuck on 5% and deca is not installed on it right now. Hopefully they will get it going Wed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> It was just some dirt that rubbed off. It is connected to a diff DVR. I think I may just have a Bad receiver. I am trying to download the NR software and it is stuck on 5% and deca is not installed on it right now. Hopefully they will get it going Wed.


It could be a bad one. Try connecting it at another location just to see if it's the cabling or the receiver.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> It could be a bad one. Try connecting it at another location just to see if it's the cabling or the receiver.


I was thinking I may try that also. The installer did take the cable from that one and switch it with the HR21 and the HR21 worked but the Hr20 still didn't. I have the HR20 and HR21 hooked to the same TV so he just swapped them around.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

If your HR20-700 was like mine was ( in that not right state) you will not get a download. That was one of the things I was trying to eliminate as a possible cause and it did not.

Once I got it off the power path it worked flawlessly and the download worked fine.

Don "your issues really sound like the one's I had" Bolton



redram38 said:


> It was just some dirt that rubbed off. It is connected to a diff DVR. I think I may just have a Bad receiver. I am trying to download the NR software and it is stuck on 5% and deca is not installed on it right now. Hopefully they will get it going Wed.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

lugnutathome said:


> If your HR20-700 was like mine was ( in that not right state) you will not get a download. That was one of the things I was trying to eliminate as a possible cause and it did not.
> 
> Once I got it off the power path it worked flawlessly and the download worked fine.
> 
> Don "your issues really sound like the one's I had" Bolton


How did you take it off the power path. I took the Deca off of it. What else would I need to do.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> How did you take it off the power path. I took the Deca off of it. What else would I need to do.


he has short and VERY long coax runs, so he moved to a short one.
The DECA losses are almost zero.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Though it may seem worthwhile to test. I don't expect the situation to change for you.

Mine did simply due to the fact I had 2 SWM8 units to swap around on and my HR20s consistently misbehaved on the 1 module regardless of room/line used and constantly functioned properly on the same cables when connected to the other module. I did a lot of swapping around and testing.

In my case only 1 of the SWM modules passes the power from the receivers back up and that is the one that made my HR20s misbehave. Switching to the other SWM8 module where the power was not passed back upline fixed the units regardless of the line in use.

In your installation, you've no such option to bypass the power path...

Don "mine is weird like me" Bolton



redram38 said:


> I was thinking I may try that also. The installer did take the cable from that one and switch it with the HR21 and the HR21 worked but the Hr20 still didn't. I have the HR20 and HR21 hooked to the same TV so he just swapped them around.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

Ok Thanks. And thanks to everyone that helped. I will let you know what happens tomorrow. I would guess they will swap out the receiver, seems to be the easiest thing to do.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> Ok Thanks. And thanks to everyone that helped. I will let you know what happens tomorrow. I would guess they will swap out the receiver, seems to be the easiest thing to do.


Please do. I REALLY doubt the DECA router bridge has anything to do with this and it was simply coincidence this came at the same time.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

One other thing I failed to mention. The green lights on the deca that was connected to the HR20-700 would go off and back on quite a bit. No other deca's are doing that as far as I can see.


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## afulkerson (Jan 14, 2007)

redram38 said:


> One other thing I failed to mention. The green lights on the deca that was connected to the HR20-700 would go off and back on quite a bit. No other deca's are doing that as far as I can see.


On my DECA inst my HR20-700 had the same problem. It would not detect the sat signal from the swmlnb either. We put a HR20-100 in its place and the sat signal was detechted. The tech replced the HR20-700 with a HR24-500 and had no more problems since then.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> Here is the setup


Personally, I'd QC fail your guy on several counts.
Unapproved fittings.
Tight bends in cable at splitters
Improper orientation of SWiM16

Hopeing there is ground out there somewhere as well.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

I decided to try a diff receiver on this line even though the installer said he switched them at the dish. I hooked up my HR21 to the same line the HR20 was on and what do you know, the HR21 would not find a signal. Also checking the sat signal on the bedroom HR (where the coax looks corroded in my picture, I am only getting 60-high 70 signal strength but high 90's everywhere else. It is a line issue so even though he said he traced it and it was ok, it is not. They come back out today so maybe they will get it right now that we found the problem for them.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

redram38 said:


> I decided to try a diff receiver on this line even though the installer said he switched them at the dish. I hooked up my HR21 to the same line the HR20 was on and what do you know, the HR21 would not find a signal. Also checking the sat signal on the bedroom HR (where the coax looks corroded in my picture, I am only getting 60-high 70 signal strength but high 90's everywhere else. It is a line issue so even though he said he traced it and it was ok, it is not. They come back out today so maybe they will get it right now that we found the problem for them.


I'm glad you took the time to find out what the problem really is.
I've seen worse installs, but as noted by me & Robert, there are a few things that should be cleaned up and some connectors replaced. "I'd bet" there are a few more connectors that we didn't see that need to be also.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

redram38 said:


> I decided to try a diff receiver on this line even though the installer said he switched them at the dish. I hooked up my HR21 to the same line the HR20 was on and what do you know, the HR21 would not find a signal. Also checking the sat signal on the bedroom HR (where the coax looks corroded in my picture, I am only getting 60-high 70 signal strength but high 90's everywhere else. It is a line issue so even though he said he traced it and it was ok, it is not. They come back out today so maybe they will get it right now that we found the problem for them.


That was smart. I'm sure they'll fix they'll line for you.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

redram38 said:


> I decided to try a diff receiver on this line even though the installer said he switched them at the dish. I hooked up my HR21 to the same line the HR20 was on and what do you know, the HR21 would not find a signal. Also checking the sat signal on the bedroom HR (where the coax looks corroded in my picture, I am only getting 60-high 70 signal strength but high 90's everywhere else. It is a line issue so even though he said he traced it and it was ok, it is not. They come back out today so maybe they will get it right now that we found the problem for them.


_*Occam's Razor*_ strikes again! :lol:


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

Well after about 5 hours the techs finally got things working. They replaced the HR20-700 with a HR24-500 yippiee, but were having trouble getting the signal strength on all 5 receivers in the 90's. 3 would be in the high 90's and 2 would be in the low 70's to high 60's. I will take pictures of the setup tomorrow, it is to dark to do it tonight but it had something to do with how they were running the power supply. Anyway I got a HR24 out of the deal and man is it fast. I want 3 more lol. I also want to add the techs did a great job getting it right. This DECA is new so I am sure they will run into snags along the way. I hope I get these type every time I need one.


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