# Primecast Changeover in Single Family Residence, can't exit, very frustrating



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

So I get in my mail today a letter from PrimeCast telling me that they 'have recently completed an agreement with DirecTV to become my communities authorized dealer for DirecTV, etc., etc.

Since I haven't heard anything about this I get a little suspicious and call DirecTV. The CSR reports to me that my house is a MDU and that I need to call an 800 number to get this resolved. I take down the 800 number and call it and lo-and-behold its for the wrong company.

I then call Primecast, assuming thats the number he wanted to give me and talk to a CSR. She begins to inform me that I can not Opt-out of being a Primecast customer (other than canceling my service). I explain to her that I do NOT live in a MDU but live in a single family home and have had D* for the past 8 years. She now tells me that my HOA signed an agreement for PrimeStar to become the dealer in that area. 

I'm a little frustrated now - I read nothing but horror stories about Primecast.

1. DirecTV never informed me that I was becoming a Primecast customer. It is my understanding that DirecTV *can* assign your billing to a third party but that it NEEDS to have notice first.

2. This one is perhaps a real estate question or specific to my bylaws and CC&R's but can an HOA step in and interfere with my billing of a utility or service?

3. Would the lack of notice on DirecTV's part be 'breach of service/contract' that could be used to exit the remainder of the DirecTV contract.

I really just want to keep my service the way it was but I'm running into dead ends in terms of what my options are now.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

This happened to a family member of mine recently with an MDU and Discernity in Ohio. 

1. We were told that the way the D* contract is worded they do not need to give you notice when your contract is assigned to a third party. 

Discernity will handle my sons service, but we were told that he will deal with D* for billing and programming because his contract was too much to buy, we were told, because of free Sunday Ticket and 2 free HD DVR's. 

2&3 I'm no lawyer so I can't say. I've seen HOA's around me take over pay TV, landscaping, lawn mowing, irrigation service and snow removal from residents. 

They get a cut of every dollar that you pay and if you look into it you'll probably find that they can do it.


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

The OP says he is not in an MDU, he has a single family home covered by an HOA. I am on the board of my HOA and there is certainly nothing in the rules that allows my HOA to do this. And if the HOA wants to change the rules, if it's anything like mine they need 70% of the homeowners to vote in favor. 
Go back and read the CC&Rs (the HOA rules). If you are not sure about them, get an attorney to read them. Write (not e-mail) to your HOA ASAP, telling them what you have heard and asking them what's behind it all. Write to DirecTV, asking them what they know about it. Your contract is with DirecTV, not with Primecast or with your HOA. Someone may be telling DirecTV that you are in an MDU when you are not.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"texasbrit" said:


> The OP says he is not in an MDU, he has a single family home covered by an HOA.


But it is an MDU in so far as there is a single controlling interest (the HOA board) that can sign a contract that forces all people in the group that want a particular service to go through a particular company.


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> But it is an MDU in so far as there is a single controlling interest (the HOA board) that can sign a contract that forces all people in the group that want a particular service to go through a particular company.


Unfortunately this may be true. What is really starting to worry me is that Primecast may have different costs for programming and equipment however if I've read the FCC's 'Over-the-air' device rule then my HOA is breaking the law if they are forcing me to use a more expensive service.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"aphex" said:


> Unfortunately this may be true. What is really starting to worry me is that Primecast may have different costs for programming and equipment however if I've read the FCC's 'Over-the-air' device rule then my HOA is breaking the law if they are forcing me to use a more expensive service.


Here's how this went for my boy. He was told after install that he couldn't have service with DirecTV because of the existing MDU agreement with his building owner. Discernity's prices are the same for all of the packages, he just would have lost his free Sunday Ticket and would have had to pay money for equipment. He would have kept the free movie channels. That's not how it happened because he would have been free to exit without fees had they changed his programming and charged for previously free equipment. That's why he'll deal with D* for programming and billing and not Discernity.

Also, had my son gone to Discernity to order service he would have gotten his first DVR for free and paid $99 for the second instead of getting both free, so his cost would have been $400 after DVR and Sunday Ticket charges where he paid nothing to D* for any of it.

Primecast won't charge more for packages if they are like Discernity. Their prices mirror D* prices to the penny. Where you lose is in your ability to call in and get things like Sunday Ticket for free because your reseller has to pay for everything that they give you. An inability to get freebies isn't something that you are going to get much help with from the FCC.

I was told in a brief conversation after all was settled that the MDU agreement was legal because in our case the building owner didn't limit our choices. They offer D*, E*, cable TV and even the local phone company's fiber TV product.

Read your HOA documents and look for clauses about contracting as an association for services, that's the clause they are using for their agreement with Primecast. Drop a few bucks on an attorney and see if he/she thinks it's worth a run to try to break that agreement up.


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

After combing through our CC&R's there isn't anything that says they can do anything like this (or can't for that matter).

I called the HOA/management company this morning however and so far the employees have been friendly and helpful and they do NOT have any agreement with Primecast in place. This would explain why zero notification was given to homeowners. Apparently several of their subdivisions have received this letter. The company is familiar with these agreements in condo's / townhouses / apartments but not in single family dwelling.

Interestingly Primecast is saying that they will leave my 'subscription' with DirecTV but they will bill me for my wiring plan (used to replace receivers) and any new equipment or service. DirecTV won't deal with me as I am considered an MDU somehow and all communication has to go through primecast.

Gah. This is beyond frustrating. I'm waiting for another manager at the HOA firm to call me back and then I may have a real estate lawyer look at it. Fortunately I work in Real Estate (not a realtor) so I have a few good people to talk to.

I've yet to find a situation where an HOA has done this with Single family detached homes. I find it all over the place for apartment complexes, townhomes and mobile home parks.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Then use the management company to work between Primecast and D* to undo the fraud. Primecast convinced D* that they have an agreement, they can correct that mistake. 

And the wiring charge can be removed from your bill by calling DirecTV. Discernity added it to my sons account and D* removed it without question.


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

It sounds like Primecast may have committed fraud. If that turns out to be the case, notify your state Attorney General.


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

After talking to the management at the HOA firm I have confirmed that they did nothing of the sort with Primecast and have no wish to get involved with how homeowners are serviced.

I'm going to call DirecTV today and see if they can at least show my property has a SFR and not a MDU.

I'm also going to see what the AG, BBB and others can do.

Edit: *Does anyone have a contact or number at DirecTV so I'm not just talking to a standard CSR about this?*


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

So a 'higher up' in Primecast called me to explain now that my HOA had nothing to do. Instead they are now claiming that DirecTV selected them to service my area. At this point they are saying that my subscription will remain with DirecTV and the only thing I will contact them about is a service situation that requires a truck roll.

It does affect my protection plan as that is now a separate bill paid to them instead of DirecTV. 

What I don't like is that when I call customer service, they now put me through to PrimeCast and let me tell you - their CSR's are nasty peices of work. I've already had to deal with several people from Primecast management APOLOGIZING for how their CSRs talked to me.

I really *REALLY* want to talk to someone at DirecTV about how I was magically chosen to be a PrimeCast customer because this all seems very fishy.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

A couple of thoughts. When you get to the CSR tier, you might ask for some other help: a supervisor; or billing management; or fraud.

Another approach is email the office of the president: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:559.378 which will get you to a much more experienced CSR.

Good luck,
Tom


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

First thing I would do is follow Tom's suggestion. Second thing is I would cancel my protection plan.


----------



## gourleyt (Oct 19, 2008)

I have rcvd the same letter and live in Nevada. I got a response from DirecTv that i am a "confirmed" multi family residential dwelling. I live in a single family house on a quarter acre. I have been a customer since 2000 but i will not be a customer of Primecast. I will write the letter to the DTv CEO but if they do not keep me as a customer i will have to see what it is like at Dish network. Customer loyalty means nothing to these companies any longer ansd i will take my money where it is wanted. 
I have asked on the Dtv forum for suggestions and i responded to the Dtv letter asking how i appeal this confirmed designation of my property to multi dwelling. This really is bad business to a customer that pays what i pay to Dtv.
Tom Gourley


----------



## gourleyt (Oct 19, 2008)

After writing the message to the Office of the President I got a call back today. Appears I am screwed. My HOA RMI, LLC has sold us out and all other properties throughout Nevada as Residential Multi Unit dwelling properties. This is a contract between the HOA and Primecast. Nothing DirecTV can do now. I have tried to speak to someone at the HOA to about where in the CC&Rs this is allowed to reclasify our single family homes but they are always busy and will return my calls. 
The DirecTV rep (Debbie) was very cordial and says she would be suprised if I have any problems but I can exacalate to the Office of the President if I do.

Question for you all if you have dealt with Primecast. Do they even have the latest receivers? Do they mark up the price more than what DTV would sell it for? Many times DTV has given me free rcvrs. Guess this will never happen again.
If you are with RMI, LLC HOA you ahve been sold out to Primecast, she said she add 80 pages of neighborhoods that were recently contracted out.

Wish me luck in this new nightmare.

Tom G


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I suggest that you contact the officers of your HOA, not RMI which is a management company which has a contract with your HOA. Several years ago I lived in a development near Tucson, AZ which had a HOA and any actions like that by the management company could only happen if approved by the HOA board of directors. In other words, we made all the decisions and the manager carried them out.

We did have an agreement similar to that, but it was a contract for trash pickup and we got a much lower rate per house than Waste Management charged individual customers (in fact, the HOA didn't even raise the dues to pay for it).


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

bobnielsen said:


> I suggest that you contact the officers of your HOA, not RMI which is a management company which has a contract with your HOA. Several years ago I lived in a development near Tucson, AZ which had a HOA and any actions like that by the management company could only happen if approved by the HOA board of directors. In other words, we made all the decisions and the manager carried them out.
> 
> We did have an agreement similar to that, but it was a contract for trash pickup and we got a much lower rate per house than Waste Management charged individual customers (in fact, the HOA didn't even raise the dues to pay for it).


Bob,

This is the worst part. Because the builders created the HOA they employ the management company to BE the HOA. Therefore all the sitting members of my HOA board are RMI employees. This is why they did this without any notice to the home owners.

In my case, the HOA can *ONLY* become run by actual homeowners 5 years after all construction ceases and in my area they can still build hundreds of homes.

I honestly don't think RMI expected anyone to care about this change.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"aphex" said:


> In my case, the HOA can *ONLY* become run by actual homeowners 5 years after all construction ceases and in my area they can still build hundreds of homes.
> 
> I honestly don't think RMI expected anyone to care about this change.


Find out if any of your neighbors are as pissed as you are and then join up and get a lawyer. They may not be homeowners on the board, but they can be sued.

For their own enrichment they interfered with your existing contract and improperly had your house classified as a multi dwelling unit.

Conflict of interest, breach of contract, unjust enruchment, Interference. A lawyer can come up with more than that.


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

aphex said:


> Bob,
> 
> This is the worst part. Because the builders created the HOA they employ the management company to BE the HOA. Therefore all the sitting members of my HOA board are RMI employees. This is why they did this without any notice to the home owners.
> 
> ...


That does suck. The development I was in initially had members appointed by the builder, but at least they were independent of the management company.

[conspiracy theory]I wonder how much of a kickback RMI gets from Primecast? Otherwise, what incentive would they have to do this?[/conspiracy theory]

Still, you (or your attorney) should review the CC&Rs to make sure they haven't gone beyond their authority.


----------



## gourleyt (Oct 19, 2008)

I rcvd vmails today from the general counsel of RMI wishing to speak about Primecast. I also rcvd a call from RMI customer service saying to speak with the GC because they do not have anything to do with the Primecast deal.
The next VMAIL I got was from someone at connexion technologies doing business as Primecast. I will return their vmails tomorrow and let you know what they say.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'd look into it via the FCC. I know they passed a law about hoas not being able to enter people into locked contracts with cable operators, not sure if it covers sat too, but I would think so.

No matter what, I'd get in touch with the office of the president at directv, and the president of the hoa, and then the ag of the state. That's not acceptable. They basically decided you no longer have a choice or a chance to get a deal with Directv. And since when does any hoa have the right to change the designation of your home?


----------



## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

I have had DirecTv for 16 years. For me, that can translate into hundreds of dollars a year in free trials or discounts via "anniversary gifts" etc...BTW, I have never "threatened" to walk, or anything of that nature. I just call about twice a year and ask if there are any promotions available.

My point is D* sees a long-time customer as valuable, and it would be a shame if you had to start from scratch because of some "middleman".


----------



## gourleyt (Oct 19, 2008)

new update:
I got to talk to Max Kipfer (sp?) of connexion technologies (Primecast) today who informed me that DirecTV has made this deal and is making these deals with Primecast across the country. They want a consistent service from one company instead of hundreds of independent installers. So now who do I believe? Primecast says DirecTV has the contract between them and Primecast or do I belive the DirecTV office of the President who says the contract is between the developer/HOA and Primecast. 
I did not get a return call from the HOA management RMIs lawyer yet.

So the stories are still all over the place in whom to believe.


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

gourleyt said:


> new update:
> I got to talk to Max Kipfer (sp?) of connexion technologies (Primecast) today who informed me that DirecTV has made this deal and is making these deals with Primecast across the country. They want a consistent service from one company instead of hundreds of independent installers. So now who do I believe? Primecast says DirecTV has the contract between them and Primecast or do I belive the DirecTV office of the President who says the contract is between the developer/HOA and Primecast.
> I did not get a return call from the HOA management RMIs lawyer yet.
> 
> So the stories are still all over the place in whom to believe.


Tom - what I do know that is (for me at least) on August 29th, PrimeCast reported my house as a MDU (multi dwelling unit) which caused DirecTV's system to change over. It was not a change initiated by DirecTV but a change caused by primecast.

If DirecTV wanted to do this, why would they change peoples properties to MDU's? I also don't believe that DirecTV wants to piss off so many installers by only going with one company.

Here is Section 10.c. of the DirecTV subscriber agreement that I think PrimeCast is using to force people into their billing


```
Assignment of Account. 
We may assign your account or this Agreement and all 
rights and/or obligations hereunder to any third party 
without notice for any purpose, including, without limitation,
 collection of unpaid amounts, or in the event of an acquisition, 
corporate reorganization, merger or sale of substantially all 
of the party's assets to another entity. 
You hereby consent to such assignment. You must continue 
making all required payments to us in accordance with your 
billing statement, unless notified otherwise.
```
Until I see something from DirecTV or my HOA stating they forced this to happen then I'm of the mindset that PrimeCast is fraudulently changing accounts to benefit themselves. Especially the fact that MULTIPLE employees at PrimeCast have all given me different answers.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I wouldn't believe Primecast if both DirecTV and your HOA are on a different page then they are. Sounds like they figure they can strong arm their way into control. I am interested in seeing what your HOA says. After you get the info from them let us know what they say.


----------



## n4uaj (Jul 25, 2007)

My daughter had a very bad experience with PrimeCast..she ordered her package from Direct..it was supposed to be the deal with 1 free hddvr 1 free hd reciever and 1 free sd receiver. MRV was included free also. The installer came out in an old beatup pickup with a rusty ladder rack. He put the big slimline on top of the roof with the big lnb. He left off the braces that help hold the dish to the roof. They were in one of the pasteboard boxes that he left scattered on the ground. He ran one coax to the dvr. I figured that was the single line thing everyone was talking about. He activated all the receivers and I asked him what about activating MRV. He allowed that it wasn't on the ticket and he didn't know how to do that nohow..Thats when I realized that it wasn't the single line system but he only had 1 tuner working. Daughter calls Direct and thats when she finds out everything has to go through PrimeStar. They did come back and run the other line to the dvr and I ran an ethernet line to the hd receiver and called up and activated the unsupported mrv for her but she never ever could get the single line MRV like she was supposed to have..Then came the first bad wind and the dish fell halfway off the roof for lack of braces. They finally fixed that but she still never got exactly what she ordered


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

gourleyt said:


> new update:
> or do I belive the DirecTV office of the President who says the contract is between the developer/HOA and Primecast.


For my money, this is where the truth is, here's why. Even if Primecast did your original install at your house prior to the MDU mess, D* paid them to do the install and hasn't given Primecast any money since. When your account is managed by a service operator like Primecast, the SO gets a cut of your programming every single month.

Primecast has to provide your service and D* doesn't pay them for that. If Primecast gives a new customer a free install, D* doesn't pay them a dime to subsidize that freebie, but they do get a nice rate on your monthly total.

I do find it a bit baffling that D* allows some of these sh*tty SO's with horrible track records for service to mange their customer relationship for them. Discernity, the SO that I dealt with, nearly ruined my relationship with D* and they did ruin my son's desire to keep their service. When his contract is up, he is leaving. All because D* trusted Discernity and they screwed him in the back of his front.


----------



## Evan702 (Jan 15, 2007)

I got one of these letters today and yes, the HOA for my house & subdivision is RMI. I'm not really happy about this at all. I called D* and got my concerns escalated. I'm supposed to hear back from them in 7-10 business days. I'm not really confident that that's going to happen and even if they do actually call back, I doubt that I'll be satisfied with whatever they have to say. If there is a group of other Nevada/RMI D* customers pissed off about this and are planning to seek some kind of legal remedy (if there is any remedy to be had), then I'd be interested in signing on.


----------



## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

I've now not received several calls back from Primecast/Connexion as they have stopped communicating with me.

I think I'm going to do some research, figure out who the principals of RMI are and ask them directly. I am so tired of the run-around I have been receiving from any and every person involved in this so far.

Tom Gourley had also been communicating with both companies but I haven't seen him post anything lately...


----------



## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

dualsub2006 said:


> But it is an MDU in so far as there is a single controlling interest (the HOA board) that can sign a contract that forces all people in the group that want a particular service to go through a particular company.


Ahh HOA's the armpit of the world. 
These groups have acquired far too much paower over the private property rights of individuals. And unfortunately with the blessings of the courts.
Here in NC HOA's still have the power to foreclose. That's criminal. But judges seem to rule in favor of HOA's all the time. 
The State legislature is in discussions on a couple of bills that will weaken HOA's or in the case of one bill, balance the interests of the Association and the property owners.
Now, no HOA can enforce a rule that does not appear in the Covenants unless the rules are changed or new rules enacted. This ( in NC anyway) can only be done by proxy and changes can be made only if a certain percentage of homeowners respond. Our HOA board was denied an action because not enough people bothered to send in their proxy. It was a BS proposal anyway.
Now, if your Coevenants do not specifically permit the HOA from entering you and other homeowners into a third party contract , legally they cannot do so. 
Now, here is the rub. It's called what former Vice President referred to as "no controlling legal authority"...In other words, your Covenants may not state the HOA can do this. However your HOA members may be saying "it doesn't say we can't either. So we're doing it."....
Sort of like "it's better to beg for forgiveness than to wait for approval".
I will state categorically that even though I have never had a run in with my HOA, I despise it's very existence. I hate subdivision life.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

The problem with what rights the HOA does or does not have is that DirecTV has the right to market their services however they want. So, if your HOA signs an MDU agreement with Primecast & DirecTV, there's not a whole lot you can do. It's the same kind of situation as when DirecTV had co-ops providing service in certain areas. It's just a marketing agreement. It's a dumb one, because it's pissing off customers, but it's just a marketing agreement that DirecTV has the right to do. 

What the HOA shouldn't have the right to do, however, is force you to take the Primecast service and prevent you from getting service from Dish Network or your local phone or cable company.


----------

