# Why is there a DVR service fee?



## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

Why is there a DVR service fee? I understand it's the fee that D* charges to have a DVR but what is D* doing in return for the fee? It seems like a holdover from the days of TIVO's fee but doesn't seem necessary now that we're using D*'s box?


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

Hansen said:


> Why is there a DVR service fee? I understand it's the fee that D* charges to have a DVR but what is D* doing in return for the fee? It seems like a holdover from the days of TIVO's fee but doesn't seem necessary now that we're using D*'s box?


It may not be necessary, but I'm sure they like the money.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Because they can charge it and we will pay it.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

They provide all of the guide information and data needed for the DVR to function.


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## jeff125va (Jun 4, 2007)

Well, the real reason is what Sirshagg said. But if you mean is there a cost to them, I think there must be some cost to provide the guide data and the DVR software.

What I wonder is, other than the same obvious reason, why there's a charge for additional receivers. I can't think of any reason it would cost them more money. Of course, they've changed the pricing structure and now call them "lease fees" but it's essentially the same $4.99 charge just to have service on the additional receivers.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

davring said:


> They provide all of the guide information and data needed for the DVR to function.


DVR or not you get the guide data. (it may go further out wiht a DVR though).


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## GP245 (Aug 17, 2006)

davring said:


> They provide all of the guide information and data needed for the DVR to function.


DirecTV provides this service for allof the receivers out there - including those without DVR capability.

My 3 year+ Sony HD300 has a better looking, easier to read guide and a better functioning search program than my new R15-100!

Let's see what if anything changes when John Malone replaces Rupert!


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> Because they can charge it and we will pay it.


Yep. It's a holdover from the TiVo days when DTV paid TiVo a per user fee per month. But a better question is why do we pay for HD channels? Plus there's another fee for more HD channels for the non standard ones coming our way. Seems to me without HD DTV would die and blow away in the dust.


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## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

I would suggest that it is purely for the DRM costs on the ACCOUNT (not the box). Hence the 1 fee.

Some people are mistaking the lease fee for the DVR fee. The lease fee is per receiver after the primary. The DVR fee is one per account that has a DVR on it. Both are $4.99 but for different things.

The guide information is part of it (not the stuff you see but the stuff that is sent to the DVR to tell it if a program is new or not and when to start and stop recording). Also the fact that they have DRM on there so you cant copy it elsewhere will cost them a fee.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The fee is in place because they can charge it and in a "marketing/sales" sense justify it by providing the DVR service.

I doubt it has anything to do with the actual costs of supplying the service.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Duffinator said:


> Yep. It's a holdover from the TiVo days when DTV paid TiVo a per user fee per month. But a better question is why do we pay for HD channels? Plus there's another fee for more HD channels for the non standard ones coming our way. Seems to me without HD DTV would die and blow away in the dust.


We pay extra for HD right now because they can charge extra for it, it is new. As HD becomes the norm the additional broadcast costs will be absorbed into the monthly rate. I beleive we are being charged extra for the "extra" pack is that D* probably is paying a carraige fee for those few channels.


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## Splendor (Apr 17, 2007)

And now they don't waive the DVR fee if you have the Premier Package either.


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## Koz (Sep 16, 2006)

What tv provider _doesn't_ charge for DVR service and extra boxes? D* isn't unique in this manner.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Dish Network and their models 501, 508 and 721 don't have DVR fees, other than that every other DVR has a service except for PC solutions.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

davring said:


> We pay extra for HD right now because they can charge extra for it, it is new.


New??? I've had it for over three years. I can get OTA for free. But not ESPN.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I think to lessen the confusion, the DVR fee is now %5.99.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

"Because they can".


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## su_A_ve (Sep 27, 2007)

It's determined by the market.

TiVo charges a fee per unit, per moth, besides the initial cost of the box

Comcrap et. al. also charge extra for a DVR and even extra for the HD DVR. They don't charge for HD itself and at least with them (and in my area) they don't charge for the cablecards - others do.

My .02...


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Koz said:


> What tv provider _doesn't_ charge for DVR service and extra boxes? D* isn't unique in this manner.





Stuart Sweet said:


> "Because they can".





su_A_ve said:


> It's determined by the market.


Ding ding ding. All of the above are correct.


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

So, what it looks like to me is that there is currently no legitimate reason that the DVR fee must be charged (i.e. D* is not providing anything different or special for purposes of the DVR to function) and this is something leftover from the days of TIVO that D* has jumped on/kept in place (even if you no longer have a TIVO unit) to make more money. In fact, it looks like a near 100% profit to D*. No wonder D* is pushing so hard for everyone to have a DVR. I guess what is surprising to me is that subscribers are not "up in arms" about it and just pay the fee (I guess I'm included in that group). On the other hand, folks are really upset that they have to pay $4.99 for another tier of HD channels. Although I have no intention of paying that additional HD fee, at least you're getting something in return for it as compared to nothing in return with the DVR fee. :nono:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That is not true. They are providing the 2 week advanced program guide. I don't know if it costs them more to get the data that far out but I know they get all their data from an outside source. Standard receivers have 2 days - 1 week of guide.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

I believe the $9.99 Ultimate TV service fee was the first DVR fee that D* had. I think that the UTV service was the first DVR for D* before Tivo.

So atleast it isn't 9.99 amonth


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

Hmm. Why do they charge me anything? They're already sending the signal to the rest of you, so it doesn't cost them anything more to send it to me. My monthly payment is just 100% profit to them. I can't see any legitimate reason they should charge me a dime.


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> That is not true. They are providing the 2 week advanced program guide. I don't know if it costs them more to get the data that far out but I know they get all their data from an outside source. Standard receivers have 2 days - 1 week of guide.


Fair enough and good point. I stand corrected that they may be supplying something a bit different for the DVR. I have no idea but my speculation is that the DVR is picking up and storing something more than the non-DVRs. I would agree that I don't know if it costs them more to obtain 7 more days of guide info that is streamed to the DVR compared to the 7 days guide sent to the non-DVR such as the H20/21 for which there is no fee. My guess is that 14 days worth of guide is in the stream for all boxes to collect and the non-DVR boxes are only capable of collecting 2 to 7 days. My guess is it comes down to a memory issue and cost; the non-DVR boxes have to use memory chips for storing the guide since there is no harddrive...this costs more to mfr and thus they use a smaller memory chip for storing the guide. The cheaper the non-DVR box, the less days of guide it stores. Thus, if this reasoning is correct, with larger memory chips the non-DVR boxes could collect the same 14 days of guide that the DVR boxes are receiving. The question then becomes whether 14 days worth of guide is the only option that D* has when purchasing the data from an outside supplier. If it's only available in 14 day increments, then we're back to my conclusion (based upon the responses to my original post) that D* is not supplying anything special for the DVR monthly fee.


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## Koz (Sep 16, 2006)

Hansen said:


> Fair enough and good point. I stand corrected that they may be supplying something a bit different for the DVR. I have no idea but my speculation is that the DVR is picking up and storing something more than the non-DVRs. I would agree that I don't know if it costs them more to obtain 7 more days of guide info that is streamed to the DVR compared to the 7 days guide sent to the non-DVR such as the H20/21 for which there is no fee. My guess is that 14 days worth of guide is in the stream for all boxes to collect and the non-DVR boxes are only capable of collecting 2 to 7 days. My guess is it comes down to a memory issue and cost; the non-DVR boxes have to use memory chips for storing the guide since there is no harddrive...this costs more to mfr and thus they use a smaller memory chip for storing the guide. The cheaper the non-DVR box, the less days of guide it stores. Thus, if this reasoning is correct, with larger memory chips the non-DVR boxes could collect the same 14 days of guide that the DVR boxes are receiving. The question then becomes whether 14 days worth of guide is the only option that D* has when purchasing the data from an outside supplier. If it's only available in 14 day increments, then we're back to my conclusion (based upon the responses to my original post) that D* is not supplying anything special for the DVR monthly fee.


They charge because..
1) They can
2) DVR software and hardware development and support costs money. They need to recoup it somehow.
3) It's worth it. If you don't think it's worth the 7 bucks, then you can cancel it. Prices are never based on what something costs. They are based on what something is worth. The buyer sets the cost, not the seller. People confuse that all the time.


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## cody21 (Sep 26, 2007)

Splendor said:


> And now they don't waive the DVR fee if you have the Premier Package either.


This is not necessarily true. What I mean is that it "all depends". If you have been a PREMIER customer for 10 years or so, and had an HR10-250 for the last couple of years, there is a very good chance that you can be 'grandfathered' in and not have to pay this monthly DVR fee. After some advice/suggestions here, I was able to arrange that... But I had to call twice, and finally send an email to D*. The email did the trick. I had a Supervisor call me within a day and I voiced my concerns to her. You have to be NICE.. no threats... no anger... just the fact that I paid $1,000 for my HR10-250 that THEY obsoleted with the introduction of the MPEG4 channels. After only 2-3 mins on the phone with the supervisor, it was all good.

YMMV


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> Seems to me without HD DTV would die and blow away in the dust.



Some people say the darnest things.


It's not free to launch new satellites and get the new HD service up and running.


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## Treadltly (Jul 6, 2007)

Gotta love the "Lifetime Tivo" option vs. the $9.99/mo. option from back in the day... One of my best decisions in life...


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Hansen said:


> Why is there a DVR service fee? I understand it's the fee that D* charges to have a DVR but what is D* doing in return for the fee? It seems like a holdover from the days of TIVO's fee but doesn't seem necessary now that we're using D*'s box?


At one time with Ultimate TV you did not have to pay the fee. However you could not use the unit to it's full potential. You could do some pausing and FF and RW but you were very limited in what you could record. You also did not get the 90 minute buffer. But once you pay the fee they open up the service to you.

I sort of assume the D* DVR service is about the same.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Treadltly said:


> Gotta love the "Lifetime Tivo" option vs. the $9.99/mo. option from back in the day... One of my best decisions in life...


+1


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Treadltly said:


> Gotta love the "Lifetime Tivo" option vs. the $9.99/mo. option from back in the day... One of my best decisions in life...


+1 - and at the time, it was only the life of that one receiver. Now that it is for the life of the account, it's an even better deal.


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## goober22 (Sep 8, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> DVR or not you get the guide data. (it may go further out wiht a DVR though).


It links the guide data to the DVR record functions and allows unattended future recordings. At $5.99 per account (plus a once per month $9.99 or $14.99 HD fee) it is still far better than the $13 PER BOX for both Comcast and Knology in my area. I have 3 DVRs with D* = $5.99 (or max $20.98 with HD), with cable = $38.85.

I plan to add 2 more - still $5.99 (HD max $20.98) with D*, cable? = 64.95!!! PLUS the monthly STB rental fee ($7 per STB compared to $5 mirror)


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