# HD picture quality... Native On/Off?



## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

I recently had D* installed and coming from Comcast I was expecting better HD picture quality. What I've seen is that it appears that my HD picture is not quite as good as my Comcast picture. It's good, but I guess I was expecting more. Same TV and same TV settings.

If I want the best HD picture quality and I'm not concerned with how long it takes for me to change channels, would I be better off with setting Native to "On"? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Make sure you are hooked up via HDMI if possible, and turn Native ON. Then go into Setup, and tell it to HIDE SD DUPLICATE so you dont accidentally tune into the SD version of a HD channel, and you should be ok.

If you dont want NATIVE ON, try setting the box to 1080i/Original Format and see how that looks. It will upconvert everything to 1080i that way, and may look better depending on the scaler in your TV. 

Just experiment a little. Use a known good channel, like HDTheatre, or HDNet or even The Weather Channel...Something that will give you lots of crispness, and see which setup looks better.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

carillon said:


> I recently had D* installed and coming from Comcast I was expecting better HD picture quality. What I've seen is that it appears that my HD picture is not quite as good as my Comcast picture. It's good, but I guess I was expecting more. Same TV and same TV settings.
> 
> If I want the best HD picture quality and I'm not concerned with how long it takes for me to change channels, would I be better off with setting Native to "On"? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


I've always used "Native on" and "Stretch" and I'm quite satisfied with my PQ.

Rich


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

On for me with a 1.4 HDMI cable connection.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I too prefer "native on". Channel changes are very fast on my Panny VT25 HDTV.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

carillon said:


> I recently had D* installed and coming from Comcast I was expecting better HD picture quality. What I've seen is that it appears that my HD picture is not quite as good as my Comcast picture. It's good, but I guess I was expecting more. *Same TV and same TV settings.*


What exactly is different about the PQ? I'd be very surprised if Comcast's HD is higher quality than DirecTV's. I say this because my HR MPEG-4 sat channels look as good as my New York City OTA HD MPEG-2 channels from normal viewing distance on a 1080p 65" display, and you generally can't get any better than OTA quality.

I would re-tweak the Sharp's Brightness, Contrast and Sharpness controls specifically for the HR24. It's possible the settings appropriate for the Comcast box are slightly different than the HR24's, and that's the difference you're seeing in PQ.

Also because your Sharp is pretty new, it probably does as good or job or better as the HR24 at re-scaling, so I agree with others... use "Native On" and let the Sharp reprocess the picture to the display's native resolution. Just my .02.


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Steve said:


> What exactly is different about the PQ? I'd be very surprised if Comcast's HD is higher quality than DirecTV's. I say this because my HR MPEG-4 sat channels look as good as my New York City OTA HD MPEG-2 channels from normal viewing distance on a 1080p 65" display, and you generally can't get any better than OTA quality.


Hi Steve... thanks for the reply. What I see are more compression artifacts around static parts of the image. For example, any non animated graphics used during sports or news broadcasts. I also notice an overall very slight fuzziness of the overall image compared to my Comcast HD.

Perhaps it could be my TV does need to be readjusted but I honestly don't know what kind of adjustments would be appropriate to make between Comcast and D*. I believe I have read that Comcast uses MPEG-2 compression where D* uses MPEG-4 when delivering HD content. Is MPEG-4 more or less sharp than MPEG-2? Maybe I'm seeing an over sharpened or under sharpened image now. What other differences should I look for between the two?

Thanks again!


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

carillon said:


> Hi Steve... thanks for the reply. What I see are more compression artifacts around static parts of the image. For example, any non animated graphics used during sports or news broadcasts. I also notice an overall very slight fuzziness of the overall image compared to my Comcast HD.
> 
> Perhaps it could be my TV does need to be readjusted but I honestly don't know what kind of adjustments would be appropriate to make between Comcast and D*. I believe I have read that Comcast uses MPEG-2 compression where D* uses MPEG-4 when delivering HD content. Is MPEG-4 more or less sharp than MPEG-2? Maybe I'm seeing an over sharpened or under sharpened image now. What other differences should I look for between the two?
> 
> Thanks again!


Make sure that the HR has the appropriate HD resolutions checked in the setup as well. Even with native set to on, it still needs to have the resolutions enabled in order to output them. It's not uncommon for installers to hook them up and leave them set for 480i. When you notice a low PQ, what resloution is the TV reporting? (most TVs have an info display showing resolution, zoom mode, etc.)


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

carillon said:


> Hi Steve... thanks for the reply. What I see are more compression artifacts around static parts of the image. For example, any non animated graphics used during sports or news broadcasts. I also notice *an overall very slight fuzziness of the overall image* compared to my Comcast HD.
> 
> Perhaps it could be my TV does need to be readjusted but I honestly don't know what kind of adjustments would be appropriate to make between Comcast and D*. I believe I have read that Comcast uses MPEG-2 compression where D* uses MPEG-4 when delivering HD content. Is MPEG-4 more or less sharp than MPEG-2? *Maybe I'm seeing an over sharpened or under sharpened image now. *What other differences should I look for between the two?
> 
> Thanks again!


Maybe it's an LCD thing? I did my comparison on a 65" 1080p plasma. I'd look at that Sharp's sharpness control. Dialing up sharpness too much can cause artifacts, and I've never owned a display where the default sharpness setting wasn't too high when I used a calibration DVD to set it properly. I'd also turn off any MPEG or other noise reduction settings that may be trying to "improve" the picture, so as to let the HR24 signal come across as pure as possible.

Like I said earlier, from about 8' away, except for smoother MPEG-2 trickplay, I see no difference between the same program recorded MPEG-4 on my HR24-500 or OTA MPEG-2 on my HR20-700. And I believe my OTA feeds are the same ones used for the East Coast feeds that are transcoded to MPEG-4, so very high quality. Thanks to MRV, I'm able to view them both on the same screen and A/B them by using the PREV button. I just did this a couple of months ago as part of another test I was conducting.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

BattleScott said:


> Make sure that the HR has the appropriate HD resolutions checked in the setup as well. Even with native set to on, it still needs to have the resolutions enabled in order to output them. It's not uncommon for installers to hook them up and leave them set for 480i. When you notice a low PQ, what resloution is the TV reporting? (most TVs have an info display showing resolution, zoom mode, etc.)


I have Native On with Resolutions of 720P, 1080I and 1080P Selected. I have a Samsung LCD (LN-T5281F) and it looks Great!!!


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

BattleScott said:


> Make sure that the HR has the appropriate HD resolutions checked in the setup as well. Even with native set to on, it still needs to have the resolutions enabled in order to output them. It's not uncommon for installers to hook them up and leave them set for 480i. When you notice a low PQ, what resloution is the TV reporting? (most TVs have an info display showing resolution, zoom mode, etc.)


All resolutions on the HR are selected and the appropriate resolutions are being reported by the TVs info button so it appears that the native resolutions are being passed to the TV. Thanks for the reply!


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

richierich said:


> I have Native On with Resolutions of 720P, 1080I and 1080P Selected. I have a Samsung LCD (LN-T5281F) and it looks Great!!!


So I just checked and my HR has all of the resolutions selected. Should I deselect 480i and 480p and leave the rest selected? My TV is 1080p. What happens if I view an occasional SD channel.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

carillon said:


> So I just checked and my HR has all of the resolutions selected. Should I deselect 480i and 480p and leave the rest selected? My TV is 1080p. What happens if I view an occasional SD channel.


I'd check them both and let the TV's scaler deal with up-converting SD to your display's native 1080p.

Also, some TV's offer an anamorphic "stretch" mode for 4:3 material that _only _works if the display sees it's getting 480i/p, so if that mode is your preference, it may not be available to you if you let the HR upconvert SD to 720p.


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Steve said:


> I'd check them both and let the TV's scaler deal with up-converting SD to your display's native 1080p.
> 
> Also, some TV's offer an anamorphic "stretch" mode for 4:3 material that _only _works if the display sees it's getting 480i/p, so if that mode is your preference, it may not be available to you if you let the HR upconvert SD to 720p.


Thanks Steve, I now have all of the resolutions on the HR selected. I'm still trying to tweak the HD PQ.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

carillon said:


> So I just checked and my HR has all of the resolutions selected. Should I deselect 480i and 480p and leave the rest selected? My TV is 1080p. What happens if I view an occasional SD channel.


Most people that I have talked to who know about these things have stated that you should Deselect 480I and 480P and let the TV Scale them and then let 720P and 1080I natively pass thru so the TV doesn't have to Scale them.

Some people prefer to just Select 1080I and 1080P so 480I, 480P and 720P are Scaled upwards to 1080I prior to passing it to the TV. You just have to try different settings to see what works Best for your Display Device (TV).


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

richierich said:


> Most people that I have talked to who know about these things have stated that you should Deselect 480I and 480P and let the TV Scale them and then let 720P and 1080I natively pass thru so the TV doesn't have to Scale them.
> 
> Some people prefer to just Select 1080I and 1080P so 480I, 480P and 720P are Scaled upwards to 1080I prior to passing it to the TV. You just have to try different settings to see what works Best for your Display Device (TV).


You need to select 480i and 480p as formats your TV supports if you want the ability to pass them through with native on and let the TV scale them. If you deselect them, and only 720p, 1080i and 1080p are selected, the box will have to scale/process a 480i/p signal in one of those 3 formats.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

anleva said:


> You need to select 480i and 480p as formats your TV supports if you want the ability to pass them through with native on and let the TV scale them. If you deselect them, and only 720p, 1080i and 1080p are selected, the box will have to scale/process a 480i/p signal in one of those 3 formats.


It will always output them as 720p in this scenario, the next highest available resolution is used. Also, only 1080p sources (PPV movies) are output at 1080p.


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## akw4572 (Sep 8, 2005)

I always use native on, it takes a bit longer to switch channels, but I think it results ina better picture.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

I think the HRs do a very good job of converting formats, so I have Native OFF, my HR20-700 set to just 1080i for my DLP set, and my HR24-200 set to 1080i/1080p for my new LED LCD set.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

BattleScott said:


> It will always output them as 720p in this scenario, the next highest available resolution is used. Also, only 1080p sources (PPV movies) are output at 1080p.


EXACTLY and a lot of people do not know this so you get the DBSTALK AWARD of the Day for noting that.

I don't mind my DVR Upscaling my 480I or 480P up to 720P because I don't really watch any channels in 480I or 480P other than occasionally tuning in to HLN in Fabulous Blur-O-Vision!!! :lol:


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## wxguy (Feb 17, 2008)

carillon said:


> I recently had D* installed and coming from Comcast I was expecting better HD picture quality. What I've seen is that it appears that my HD picture is not quite as good as my Comcast picture. It's good, but I guess I was expecting more. Same TV and same TV settings.....


I've noted the same thing. I kept basic cable for backup and to drive other tvs in other rooms. When I switch the HD TV from D* to cable (antenna) the Comcast images generally have greater color depth and seem sharper. I've set the controls exactly the same on multiple inputs and still notice the difference.

Of interest, the local CBS affiliate just went local HD and the image from them over cable or from D* seem to be very close. They have all new equipment in their stream so maybe that has something to do with it. Probably has to do more with processing of the encoding compression techniques and decoding on our end. Can't rule out more data bits passing to us on cable with more bandwidth to make better images but if I don't keep switching to compare, then most all HD on D* looks fine because I get used to it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

wxguy said:


> I've noted the same thing. I kept basic cable for backup and to drive other tvs in other rooms. When I switch the HD TV from D* to cable (antenna) the Comcast images generally have greater color depth and seem sharper. *I've set the controls exactly the same on multiple inputs and still notice the difference [...]*


And that may explain the difference you're seeing. I don't own a Comcast box, but if the default settings for both the Comcast box and the HR24 were exactly the same, I'd be very surprised.

I say this, because even when I switched from an HR20 to an HR24, I had to re-tweak contrast, brightness, color and sharpness one or two ticks each, to get PQ comparable to what I was used to.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect the real answer to the OP is...it depends (on what you have the HD DVR connected to)...

If you have the unit connected to a high-end HD display and/or HD projector, for example, or else a separate video processor device...there is little chance that the HD DVR will be able to equal that video presentation. Almost...but not quite - Video Off is preferred for those situations.

I also agree with the other posts that note that Video On's delays are annoying.

For most folks I've spoken with, however, Video On seems to be their selection of choice.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> And that may explain the difference you're seeing. I don't own a Comcast box, but if the default settings for both the Comcast box and the HR24 were exactly the same, I'd be very surprised.
> 
> I say this, because even when I switched from an HR20 to an HR24, I had to re-tweak contrast, brightness, color and sharpness one or two ticks each, to get PQ comparable to what I was used to.


Don't the cable companies use MPEG2 instead of our MPEG4? Wouldn't that be the cause?

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Don't the cable companies use MPEG2 instead of our MPEG4? Wouldn't that be the cause?


Check out my earlier posts in this thread.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Don't the cable companies use MPEG2 instead of our MPEG4? Wouldn't that be the cause?
> 
> Rich


Some may be shifting to MPEG-4, but most are still MPEG-2.

Guess it's time for my two cents:

I use 480i because my Sony TV scales this better than my DirecTV receivers.

Long ago, when I had cable, OTA, & DirecTV, the same program could be compared:
OTA was the best.
DirecTV MPEG-4 was close.
"My cable" was a distant third.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> OTA was the best.
> DirecTV MPEG-4 was close.


Concur, though even with my 20-20 vision, I have to be standing 2-4 feet away from my 65" 1080p display to see the difference. From normal viewing distance (8'-10'), the picture is virtually identical, IMHO. Only way I can tell the difference is by the smoothness of trickplay.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Concur, though even with my 20-20 vision, I have to be standing 2-4 feet away from my 65" 1080p display to see the difference. From normal viewing distance (8'-10'), the picture is virtually identical, IMHO. Only way I can tell the difference is by the smoothness of trickplay.


46" screen & 10' viewing distance, still showed color differences between the two, though slight.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> 46" screen & 10' viewing distance, still showed color differences between the two, though slight.


Same input?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Same input?


yes as the receiver was an H20-600.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Check out my earlier posts in this thread.


Sorry, I missed them. I really ought to read whole threads before posting. 

I've always thought that the MPEG2 programs were slightly better as far as PQ went. Haven't watched any MPEG2 for a long time tho.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> TV tuner verses DirecTV receiver, verses cable DVR.
> You'd have to have seen these "to know" it wasn't input settings.
> The green grass of the program was what showed this the most.
> OTA reference, DirecTV not quite as green, while cable showed it as brown.


Oddly, I've been noticing better greens lately.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I've always thought that the MPEG2 programs were slightly better as far as PQ went.
> 
> Rich


This may still be true depending on the source.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Oddly, I've been noticing better greens lately.
> 
> Rich


Not "Jet" green.... !rolling


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## thelucky1 (Feb 23, 2009)

"BattleScott" said:


> It will always output them as 720p in this scenario, the next highest available resolution is used. Also, only 1080p sources (PPV movies) are output at 1080p.


Ok so If I have native ON, do I check all resolutions? My TV does support of the resolutions.


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

thelucky1 said:


> Ok so If I have native ON, do I check all resolutions? My TV does support of the resolutions.


Yes. That way the set top box will pass through all formats natively and let your TV do any deinterlacing or scaling.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

My problem has always been that with native on or off, if only HD resolutions are checked in the receiver settings SD channels are naturally going to be stretched to a 16:9 aspect ratio. Therefore you must leave the receiver format set on "Pillar Box" display to automatically squeeze them back to 4:3. But I noticed the receiver is slightly over compensating by squeezing a little too much giving the obvious "Stan Laurel" effect for all objects in the picture.

So for me its "native on" with all resolutions checked to let the TV handle the pillar-boxing for the SD channels in addition to any necessary scaling.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not "Jet" green.... !rolling


Not on my three Jets remotes. :lol:

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

thelucky1 said:


> Ok so If I have native ON, do I check all resolutions? My TV does support of the resolutions.


There isn't a "one setup for everyone" since this all comes down to what you see/like.
I would suggest looking at SD for a while and see if you can see any difference between the settings. Turn off native and cycle through the resolutions. If you can't tell any difference, then you may want to not use any 480, and might want to set the only output to the native resolution of your TV.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> yes as the receiver was an H20-600.


Not familiar with that box. It had OTA capability? I'm only asking because if you compared SAT channel to the TV's same OTA channel, it could explain a difference in color intensity.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> My problem has always been that with native on or off, if only HD resolutions are checked in the receiver settings SD channels are naturally going to be stretched to a 16:9 aspect ratio. Therefore you must leave the receiver format set on "Pillar Box" display to automatically squeeze them back to 4:3. But I noticed the receiver is slightly over compensating by squeezing a little too much giving the obvious "Stan Laurel" effect for all objects in the picture.
> 
> *So for me *its "native on" with all resolutions checked to let the TV handle the pillar-boxing for the SD channels in addition to any necessary scaling.


Which is why all of "our" suggestions are only that, since it all comes down to viewer's choice.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

thelucky1 said:


> Ok so If I have native ON, do I check all resolutions? My TV does support of the resolutions.


I have Native On and I Do Not Check 480I or 480P and let the DVR Scale them up to 720P but if your TV Scaler is better at Scaling than the DVR then you would be Better off letting the TV Scale everything to it's Native Resolution.

However, that takes longer than letting the DVR do it as far as changing channels goes.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Not familiar with that box. It had OTA capability? I'm only asking because if you compared SAT channel to the TV's same OTA channel, it could explain a difference in color intensity.


The "20s" all have internal OTA tuners and the -600 has the better of the two.


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> There isn't a "one setup for everyone" since this all comes down to what you see/like.
> I would suggest looking at SD for a while and see if you can see any difference between the settings. Turn off native and cycle through the resolutions. If you can't tell any difference, then you may want to not use any 480, and might want to set the only output to the native resolution of your TV.


Thats good advice. Lately I've been doing that. Native off and the output set to 1080. Mainly because of the faster channel changes. But this discussion got me interested in going back to native on and letting my TV do all the processing. I'm amazed at how much better all SD and HD formats look having my Pioneer Kuro doing the processing rather than my HR24-500. I guess I'm back to native on and living with slower channel changes.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

anleva said:


> Yes. That way the set top box will pass through all formats natively and let your TV do any deinterlacing or scaling.


Actually unless a progressive scan TV receives a progressive scan input signal, it must always perform de-interlacing at some point in its signal processing chain. But may not need to do any actual scaling depending on the resolution of the input signal from the receiver compared to the native one of the display.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

anleva said:


> Yes. That way the set top box will pass through all formats natively and let your TV do any deinterlacing or scaling.


[again] this isn't always true for everyone.
Deinterlacing can be done better in the receiver as it has access to the vector information that a TV doesn't.

"In the end" each viewer should try all of these settings and then find which they like. Then you've found what is best *for you*.


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Actually unless a progressive scan TV receives a progressive scan input signal, it must always perform de-interlacing at some point in its signal processing chain. But may not need to do any actual scaling depending on the resolution of the input signal from the receiver compared to the native one of the display.


That's why I used the word "or"


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

It's been a long time since one of these threads was started, but we used to get a good 200 posts each time they were started "back in the day". :lol:


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> [again] this isn't always true for everyone.
> Deinterlacing can be done better in the receiver as it has access to the vector information that a TV doesn't.
> 
> "In the end" each viewer should try all of these settings and then find which they like. Then you've found what is best *for you*.


LOL. I think I already agreed with you on that.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

One suggestion that has been overlooked is calibrating the TV. Even if it's only done with a low cost calibration DVD you will benefit with noticeable PQ improvement.


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> One suggestion that has been overlooked is calibrating the TV. Even if it's only done with a low cost calibration DVD you will benefit with noticeable PQ improvement.


Definitely agree with that. Amazing what a difference it can make. I took the plunge and invested in a meter and CalMAN software and have been calibrating all my displays myself. The improvement in PQ has been worth it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The "20s" all have internal OTA tuners and the -600 has the better of the two.


Gotcha. I should have realized the H's had comparable features to the HR's... D'oh! :lol:


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> The "20s" all have internal OTA tuners and the -600 has the better of the two.


But more importantly they both had an OTA channel scan feature. And thus stands as a sad reminder of what should have been with the design of the following OTA integrated tuners of the HR20s and AM21 module add on module. :crying_sa


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> One suggestion that has been overlooked is calibrating the TV. Even if it's only done with a low cost calibration DVD you will benefit with noticeable PQ improvement.





anleva said:


> Definitely agree with that. Amazing what a difference it can make. I took the plunge and invested in a meter and CalMAN software and have been calibrating all my displays myself. The improvement in PQ has been worth it.


+2. After calibration, my relatively inexpensive Panny 65S1 looks better than the very pricey 50" Fujitsu it replaced.


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## Kev4Bama (Aug 7, 2010)

I have my native resolution turned on with all resolutions checked that way everything is only "processed" once by the television, the television is going to convert whatever it recieves to its native resolution anyway.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Kev4Bama said:


> I have my native resolution turned on with all resolutions checked that way everything is only "processed" once by the television, the television is going to convert whatever it recieves to its native resolution anyway.


Excellent point. E.g., many pre-1080p plasma displays are actually 768p native. So even if sending over fixed 720p or 1080i from the HR, those displays still have to convert that input a _second_ time. At least in theory, it makes more sense to reprocess the signal as little as possible.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

MysteryMan said:


> One suggestion that has been overlooked is calibrating the TV. Even if it's only done with a low cost calibration DVD you will benefit with noticeable PQ improvement.


You can also find "pretty close" professional calibration settings for just about any major model/brand TV on AVSFORUM.COM right down to service menu settings. While they may not be as "100% spot on" as having a $350+ professional ISF calibration done they are pretty close as confirmed by folks who do the calibrating. Probably a lot better then using the calibration disks. I had a professional calibration done a while ago and the settings found on AVSFORUM were barely a hair off. I am sure they were less off then anyone could see.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Steve said:


> Excellent point. E.g., many pre-1080p plasma displays are actually 768p native. So even if sending over fixed 720p or 1080i from the HR, those displays still have to convert that input a _second_ time. At least in theory, it makes more sense to reprocess the signal as little as possible.


in theory yes, but in reality it boils down to whether or not your eyes can discern any difference between the two. In my case there is no perceptable difference on the HD resolutions and a very slight improvement letting the HR handle the SD conversion. So I leave native off and force everything to 720p. Channel changes are much faster that way.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> in theory yes, but in reality it boils down to whether or not your eyes can discern any difference between the two. In my case there is no perceptable difference on the HD resolutions and a very slight improvement letting the HR handle the SD conversion. So I leave native off and force everything to 720p. Channel changes are much faster that way.


Yup. With the quality of today's processors and scaling algorithms, I agree that the differences can be imperceptible to the naked eye, especially at normal viewing distances. That's why I hedged by adding "in theory"! :lol:

And if you're sending everything over 720p to a native 720p display, then your set _won't_ reprocess it a second time.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

TBlazer07 said:


> You can also find "pretty close" professional calibration settings for just about any major model/brand TV on AVSFORUM.COM right down to service menu settings. While they may not be as "100% spot on" as having a $350+ professional ISF calibration done they are pretty close as confirmed by folks who do the calibrating. Probably a lot better then using the calibration disks. I had a professional calibration done a while ago and the settings found on AVSFORUM were barely a hair off. I am sure they were less off then anyone could see.


I agree. My Sony was calibrated by a professional for $400.00. What amazes me are the number of people who invest in HDTVs and don't have them calibrated.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MysteryMan said:


> I agree. My Sony was calibrated by a professional for $400.00. *What amazes me are the number of people who invest in HDTVs and don't have the calibrated*.


You mean like Best Buy? :lol:

The one here has over 80 HD units on display, and I suspect not one of them is calibrated correctly. Out of the box they come, and up on the wall they go... 

But seriously...you are correct. Even a $30 HD calibration DVD can get you pretty solid results...if the $400 is out of the budget.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You mean like Best Buy? :lol:
> 
> The one here has over 80 HD units on display, and I suspect not one of them is calibrated correctly. Out of the box they come, and up on the wall they go...
> 
> But seriously...you are correct. Even a $30 HD calibration DVD can get you pretty solid results...if the $400 is out of the budget.


Yup


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I experimented several dozen times and I always return to native on, if it matters or not I am convinced is the best way to go.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You mean like Best Buy? :lol:
> 
> The one here has over 80 HD units on display, and I suspect not one of them is calibrated correctly. Out of the box they come, and up on the wall they go...
> 
> But seriously...you are correct. Even a $30 HD calibration DVD can get you pretty solid results...if the $400 is out of the budget.


YUP!!!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If I have a 1080P Samsung Display Device and I Check my DVR's Resolution with only 720P, 1080I and 1080P Checked with Native On, would that work better than Deselecting 480I, 480P & 720P and letting the DVR Scale/Deinterlace everything up to 1080I and then let the Samsung Display Deinterlace the signal to 1080P?


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

carillon said:


> Hi Steve... thanks for the reply. What I see are more compression artifacts around static parts of the image. For example, any non animated graphics used during sports or news broadcasts. I also notice an overall very slight fuzziness of the overall image compared to my Comcast HD.
> 
> Perhaps it could be my TV does need to be readjusted but I honestly don't know what kind of adjustments would be appropriate to make between Comcast and D*. I believe I have read that Comcast uses MPEG-2 compression where D* uses MPEG-4 when delivering HD content. Is MPEG-4 more or less sharp than MPEG-2? Maybe I'm seeing an over sharpened or under sharpened image now. What other differences should I look for between the two?
> 
> Thanks again!


I believe that the artifacts around static parts of the iamge are due to the mpeg4 compression or from the source and no calibration can help with that problem. Having said that if the TV is oversharpening then.....

Calibration can help with brightness, tint and color saturation for example and it could help if what you are seeing is from the TV itself oversharpening the image.

So Calibration may or may not help.

Why not go to the settings and see if there is a sharpen control and turn it down as well as adjust the other settings to see.


----------



## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Great info by everyone... thanks for the replies!

I have done some testing since I originally started this thread and I can say that in my case, setting Native On results in a better quality picture for both SD and HD.

So how do you folks calibrate for D*? I have a couple of DVDs like Avia and GetGray but they use a different input to the TV. I have scheduled to record the HDNet Test Patterns which I thought would be good to use since they are the same source and input.


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## jbilliel (Jul 13, 2008)

This is a great thread! I was just looking at this very feature this morning as I got a new LED-LCD TV for xmas. I would love to put native on, but when I change channels the TV takes a couple of seconds to switch each time and its really annoying!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> I believe that the artifacts around static parts of the iamge are due to the mpeg4 compression or from the source and no calibration can help with that problem. Having said that if the TV is oversharpening then.....
> 
> Calibration can help with brightness, tint and color saturation for example and it could help if what you are seeing is from the TV itself oversharpening the image


I couldn't locate the exact manual for *carillon's* Sharp, but if it has adjustments comparable to the page attached from a Sharp LC-52LE810UN, I'd also look at the settings like "motion enhancement", "active contrast", "digital noise reduction", and "3d YC". They all look like they have the potential to affect PQ, either for good or bad. E.g., it says: _"Motion Enhancement" may cause image noise. If this occurs, turn the function "Off"_


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

carillon said:


> So how do you folks calibrate for D*?


You have a Sharp I believe you said...Go to the DirecTv input, Toggle your video until you get to the USER (not Vivid or Standard, etc) and go into your menu, go to picture, write down all the settings. Then go to advanced, and for each menu, write down all the settings.
Then enter in these settings. These are for a 46" sharp, but should work for you. If not, just restore your previous settings with RESET, or reenter your settings from where you wrote them down, if you have changed any prior to doing this. If they changed the menus, then maybe someone with a calibrated set newer than mine can post their settings.

OPC (OFF)
Backlight STD (0)
Contrast +33
Brightness 0 (adjust to taste after making following changes)
Color -3
Tint +9
Sharpness 0

ADVANCED: CMS HUE 
R +5
Y -5
G -1
C 0
B 0
M -10

ADVANCED: CMS SATURATION
R +6
Y 0
G +15
C 0
B +3
M +15

ADVANCED: COLOR TEMP
Middle
ADVANCED: ACTIVE CONTRAST
Off
ADVANCED: FINE MOTION
On


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

I keep native off & 1080i/1080p checked. 

The picture is only slightly better with native on but its not worth it because of the annoyingly longer channel tune in time.

If i just wanted the best pic i would get fios but they have drawbacks too.


edit:
oops didnt mean 720p.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> I keep native off & 720p/1080i/1080p checked.


Which means if you don't manually change the resolution, it stays at the last resolution. Might as well leave it to the same as your TV's native is then.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dcowboy7 said:


> I keep native off & 720p/1080i/1080p checked.
> The picture is only slightly better with native on but its not worth it because of the annoyingly longer channel tune in time.
> 
> If i just wanted the best pic i would get fios but they have drawbacks too.


How is it- and is it measurable-[FIOS]- better than DirecTV's picture?


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> You have a Sharp I believe you said...Go to the DirecTv input, Toggle your video until you get to the USER (not Vivid or Standard, etc) and go into your menu, go to picture, write down all the settings. Then go to advanced, and for each menu, write down all the settings.
> Then enter in these settings. These are for a 46" sharp, but should work for you. If not, just restore your previous settings with RESET, or reenter your settings from where you wrote them down, if you have changed any prior to doing this. If they changed the menus, then maybe someone with a calibrated set newer than mine can post their settings.


Thanks Dave... here are my current settings that I found someplace on the internet a while back... I'm going to try yours but the menus aren't quite the same.

Original
Setting	Value
OPC	On
Backlight	STD
Contrast	33
Brightness	-1
Color	-5
Tint	-1
Sharpness	1
CMS Hue	
R	0
Y	0
G	0
C	3
B	0
M	7
CMS Saturation	
R	0
Y	-12
G	-10
C	0
B	0
M	-20
CMS Value	
R	0
Y	25
G	-30
C	0
B	0
M	17
Color Temp	
Level	Low
R	14
G	0
B	-21
R	-30
G	0
B	-26
Fine Motion	On
Active Contrast	Off
Gamma	0
Black Level	N/A
Film Mode	Off
Digital Noise Reduction	Off
Monochrome	Off
Range of OPC	
Max	5
Min	-10


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> How is it- and is it measurable-[FIOS]- better than DirecTV's picture?


It is somewhat better but again its up to the viewer to decide what is measureable.

Some peeps cant even see that directv is better than dish so.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Wow, they added a lot more menus to your new one


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Wow, they added a lot more menus to your new one


Indeed they have! In the hands of a knowledgeable technician with the proper equipment it would appear they could dial in the calibration with all that control. For me, I'm probably just going to reset everything to default values and use the HDNet Test Patterns to so basic calibration.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dcowboy7 said:


> It is somewhat better but again its up to the viewer to decide what is measureable.
> 
> Some peeps cant even see that directv is better than dish so.


Can you be in any way specific? Can you not estimate that it is x% sharper, y% less artifacting, or whatever?? Or cite something that does?


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

jbilliel said:


> This is a great thread! I was just looking at this very feature this morning as I got a new LED-LCD TV for xmas. I would love to put native on, but when I change channels the TV takes a couple of seconds to switch each time and its really annoying!


I just got a new Panasonic 50" 3D Plasma (nice gift from our kids for holiday + 45th anniv  ) to replace our 5yr old NEC PDP which died. So I decided to try Native ON with my HR20-100. It was horribly slow switching on the OLD set but I was pleasantly surprised that it was almost instantaneous switching with the HR20-100 and new Panny.

Today DirecTV replaced the HR20-100 with an HR22-100 because the HR20-100 didn't support 3D and the "native" channel switching is like 10x SLOWER on the HR22. I went back to the HR20-100 again and it was back to "fast." I thought it was the old TV that was slow but now it seems either the HR20-100 is way faster then the HR22-100 in "native channel switching" or my HR22-100 is defective which I doubt because it works flawlessly in every other way.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> I just got a new Panasonic 50" 3D Plasma (nice gift from our kids for holiday + 45th anniv  ) to replace our 5yr old NEC PDP which died. So I decided to try Native ON with my HR20-100. It was horribly slow switching on the OLD set but I was pleasantly surprised that it was almost instantaneous switching with the HR20-100 and new Panny.
> 
> Today DirecTV replaced the HR20-100 with an HR22-100 because the HR20-100 didn't support 3D and the "native" channel switching is like 10x SLOWER on the HR22. I went back to the HR20-100 again and it was back to "fast." I thought it was the old TV that was slow but now it seems either the HR20-100 is way faster then the HR22-100 in "native channel switching" or my HR22-100 is defective which I doubt because it works flawlessly in every other way.


Those Panny 3D sets are outrageously good in 2D. I'm gonna buy one just for that reason. One of these days, when the prices drop.

Rich


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Your set is probably unique. 

Example - I used a set of Panny VT25 settings (included service mode settings for white balance) that I found at avsforums.com. They were MUCH better than the out of the box settings. But the set really popped once I used a calibration DVD.


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## mfreeman73 (May 3, 2006)

DTV guy came by today to fix something on my dish. While he was here he changed all my tv's to Native Off and resolution to 1080i. He said that having Native on with the other resolutions isn't good for the box and causes them to wear out quicker. First time I heard something like that. Anyone else heard anything like that?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

mfreeman73 said:


> DTV guy came by today to fix something on my dish. While he was here he changed all my tv's to Native Off and resolution to 1080i. He said that having Native on with the other resolutions isn't good for the box and causes them to wear out quicker. First time I heard something like that. Anyone else heard anything like that?


 That's bull. My HR22-100 has been running for over a year with Native ON. Why would they design a receiver with a feature that causes it to wear out?


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

LOL! Native on will cause resolution changes, which can take more time to change channels than people like. However, since it doesn't involve a mechanical process, I don't see how it could cause anything to wear out.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Don't tell my 4+ year old HR20 that since it's been in native from day one. :lol:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

I don't think it would cause anything in the sat box to wear out, but I have had TVs where you could hear a relay operating when it changed resolutions. I would have preferred solid state switches (whose lifetime in the the millions of cycles), and not have to worry about self-cleaning or corroding contacts in a relay.

When I had a 720p TV, I set native off and ran fixed 720p. When I got a 1080p TV, I changed the sat boxes to Native. This TV doesn't use a relay, or if it does,l it is super quiet.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Maybe it's because the natives are getting restless?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mfreeman73 said:


> DTV guy came by today to fix something on my dish. While he was here he changed all my tv's to Native Off and resolution to 1080i. He said that having Native on with the other resolutions isn't good for the box and causes them to wear out quicker. First time I heard something like that. Anyone else heard anything like that?


Nope. I've had every HR I've ever had in the "Native On" mode and I don't think it causes anything negative at all. Bull Thwacky!

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> That's bull. My HR22-100 has been running for over a year with Native ON. Why would they design a receiver with a feature that causes it to wear out?


Consider where he lives. Long Island, NY. The installers probably been on the job for a couple months and is actively job hunting. And probably a contractor to boot.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Maybe it's because the natives are getting restless?


Probably doesn't get paid enough to live and doesn't have the time to really learn how these things work because he's out looking for a job that pays enough to live in the City.

Rich


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

I guess it's my tired old eyes. I run native off/720p out from my HR22 to a Sharp 32" LCD (720p native panel resolution) and it's good enough for me. Maybe when I upgrade the TV later this year...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> I guess it's my tired old eyes. I run native off/720p out from my HR22 to a Sharp 32" LCD (720p native panel resolution) and it's good enough for me. Maybe when I upgrade the TV later this year...


This whole "on/off" all comes down to what you, the viewer like. What you like is right for you.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I've wondered what's best for a receiver attached to a 720p LCD. 

I've always used native OFF with "720p resolution + Pillar Box format". 

Have assumed that this is the best you can get with a 720p LCD TV. 

Thoughts?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Sixto said:


> I've wondered what's best for a receiver attached to a 720p LCD.
> 
> I've always used native OFF with "720p resolution + Pillar Box format".
> 
> ...


That is what I use on the Vizio "720" TV. It's scaler isn't any better the the receiver's.
My Sony has a better scaler so it is set with native on [also a 1080 display]


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sixto said:


> I've wondered what's best for a receiver attached to a 720p LCD.
> 
> I've always used native OFF with "720p resolution + Pillar Box format".
> 
> ...


Since your TV is native 720p, it doesn't have to reconvert anything coming from the HR at 720p, so I agree this is the best setting in theory, because it allows for faster channel changes.

Only caveat is some folks have complained that the HR's pillar box is "taller" than normal. If it matters to you, you might want to compare HR pillar box with what your TV's pillar box setting looks like, if you were set to Native on, all resolutions.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Only caveat is some folks have complained that the HR's pillar box is "taller" than normal. If it matters to you, you might want to compare HR pillar box with what your TV's pillar box setting looks like, if you were set to Native on, all resolutions.


 Is this really a resolution issue or more likely a format issue between pillar box verses "original format", where the TV then handles these?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Sixto said:


> I've wondered what's best for a receiver attached to a 720p LCD.
> 
> I've always used native OFF with "720p resolution + Pillar Box format".
> 
> ...


I know this will be controversial, but I swear I can tell the difference between a 720p feed on my 720p plasmas and a 1080i feed on the same plasmas, on the same channel, set to Native On. The 1080i feed is just a bit better. And I get a pretty good picture using one of my BD players in 1080p on the 720ps set to Native On.

But it's subjective, altho I have tried it on several people and they all picked the 1080i feed as being better than the 720p feed. Using the same channel.

Rich


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## orbeavhawk (May 17, 2010)

I have the antique, 2008, RP-HDTV Samsung LED DLP 61A750 with an Adapter installed in order to translate DTV's 3D signal to Checkerboard Mode. Anyway, why I comment here is because in the instructions for installing the necessary Adapter for my antique HDTV] it tells you to TURN OFF everything except for 1080P and I believe specifically says to turn off Native.
This is what I have done..........BUT........truthfully don't know the specific reasons WHY, or what would happen IF I turned on Native etc.????

TKS michael


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

orbeavhawk said:


> I have the antique, 2008, RP-HDTV Samsung LED DLP 61A750 with an Adapter installed in order to translate DTV's 3D signal to Checkerboard Mode. Anyway, why I comment here is because in the instructions for installing the necessary Adapter for my antique HDTV] it tells you to TURN OFF everything except for 1080P and I believe specifically says to turn off Native.
> This is what I have done..........BUT........truthfully don't know the specific reasons WHY, or what would happen IF I turned on Native etc.????
> 
> TKS michael


"My guess" is that it doesn't handle any signal other than the 1080.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Is this really a resolution issue or more likely a format issue between pillar box verses "original format", where the TV then handles these?


Not a resolution issue, but a possible scaling issue that Hotat noted earlier in this thread, if I understood it correctly. I haven't had a chance to test it, tho. Could just be an anomaly with his particular display, and not something Sixto is going to have an issue with.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Not a resolution issue, but a possible scaling issue that Hotat noted earlier in this thread, if I understood it correctly. I haven't had a chance to test it, tho. Could just be an anomaly with his particular display, and not something Sixto is going to have an issue with.





> SD channels are naturally going to be stretched to a 16:9 aspect ratio.


 This would only happen with original format [or stretched/crop], so this does come down to an overscan issue between how the receiver & TV handle both resolution and format setting.
ei: my Sony 1080p has "full pixel" [zero overscan], but only on 1080. 720 has this grayed out.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> This would only happen with original format [or stretched/crop], so this does come down to an overscan issue between how the receiver & TV handle both resolution and format setting.
> ei: my Sony 1080p has "full pixel" [zero overscan], but only on 1080. 720 has this grayed out.


Yup. I just tried it on one of my 42" Panny's, which is about 5 years old. Because it's connected component, I have no option to adjust overscan at all.

As you can see, in one shot, the Panny is set to 4:3 and the HR is set to "Original Format". In the other shot, the Panny was set to "full" and the HR was set to "Pillar Box". Camera was on a tripod and I didn't change zoom or position between shots. The proportion of the faces is different in each shot, as you can more easily see in the last shot.

I believe PillarBox/Full is more accurate than Original/4:3, which appears too wide. As a result, the Panny's pillar boxes are clipping a little more off the sides than they should.


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## orbeavhawk (May 17, 2010)

I have mine set on 1080P...........I know that everything is NOT going to be in that resolution...........BUT............was surprised when I checked several of my HD channels and they were being broadcast in 720x480. Is this the "standard" with DTV HD?

TKS


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

orbeavhawk said:


> I have mine set on 1080P...........I know that everything is NOT going to be in that resolution...........BUT............was surprised when I checked several of my HD channels and they were being broadcast in 720x480. Is this the "standard" with DTV HD?


Which channels were 720x480? I believe my local PBS affiliate broadcasts in that format sometimes.

BTW, if you only check 1080p output, the HR will NOT upconvert _everything _to 1080p. Everything else gets sent over as 1080i.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Steve said:


> Which channels were 720x480? I believe my local PBS affiliate broadcasts in that format sometimes.
> 
> BTW, if you only check 1080p output, the HR will NOT upconvert everything to 1080p. IIRC, it sends the native res for non 1080p sources when configured like that. At least the last time I checked, that's what it was doing.


Sounds like a sub channel in 480p


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

does anyone else think insignia tv's have a good video scaler.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> does anyone else think insignia tv's have a good video scaler.


:lol::lol::lol::lol: No way. Those sets are cheap garbage.


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol: No way. Those sets are cheap garbage.


then why is my standard def picture so good. and how are they cheap garbage.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> then why is my standard def picture so good. and how are they cheap garbage.


How big is it? What model?


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> then why is my standard def picture so good. and how are they cheap garbage.


If I remember correctly, they are made by LG. I have a 26" LG that has a fantastic SD picture. Of course at 26" the image isn't as blown up, so it's bound to look better than larger sets.


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> How big is it? What model?


it is a 19 in. dvd combo.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> it is a 19 in. dvd combo.


It's only 19", that's why SD looks good.


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## hidef2010 (Jul 28, 2010)

Steve said:


> Which channels were 720x480? I believe my local PBS affiliate broadcasts in that format sometimes.
> 
> BTW, if you only check 1080p output, the HR will NOT upconvert everything to 1080p. IIRC, it sends the native res for non 1080p sources when configured like that. At least the last time I checked, that's what it was doing.


*Sorry Steve, care to clarify this for me*..... are you saying that if I *only check 1080P *as the resolution on my HR22-100 and leave "Native" set to "ON" that the HR will pass through 480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i untouched, for the TV''s own scaler to do the work?  Is this correct? Can someone else verify this?

Thanks
Hidef2010


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hidef2010 said:


> *Sorry Steve, care to clarify this for me*..... are you saying that if I *only check 1080P *as the resolution on my HR22-100 and leave "Native" set to "ON" that the HR will pass through 480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i untouched, for the TV''s own scaler to do the work?  Is this correct? Can someone else verify this?


Usually, if you want your TV scaler to do the work, you check "Native On" and then select all the resolutions on the res screen, including 1080p if you're display is 1080p capable.

The alternative is to turn "Native off", and only check the resolutions you want the HR to up- or down-convert everything to. So if you only selected 720p, e.g., than no matter what the native resolution of the channel was, the HR would up- or down-convert any non-720p native channels to 720p out to your display. And if you checked 720p and 1080i, then 720p and below would go over as 720p, but 1080i would go over as 1080i.

That alternative works for any resolution... except if you _only _check 1080p. The HR will not upconvert 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i to 1080p. It only sends native 1080p over as 1080p, no matter what the "native on/off" setting is. I just tested, and contrary to what I previously thought, everything else was upconverted to 1080i when only 1080p was checked. So in this case, your native 1080p display simply needs to de-interlace it.

I guess the first time I tested "1080p only", I only looked spot-checked a 1080i channel and assumed it was passing _everything _native when configured like this. I'll correct that other post.

And sorry for the long-winded answer.  Just trying to be clear.


----------



## hidef2010 (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi Steve, thanks again for the reply. I am still a little confused........ 
I have a Pioneer Kuro (1080P) HDTV connected directly to the HR22 via HDMI. I have always had "Native" set to "ON" and only 1080i selected as a resolution, because if I select 1080i & 720P the TV starts to do "fireworks on the screen" when I change between channels that transmit in different resolutions eg. ( ABC =720P NBC =1080i). I believe this has something to to with the EDID. 
Anyway, yesterday I set my HR22 to 1080P only on the resolutions screen, with Native set to "ON" as usual. The funny thing was that *when I check the resolution on my Kuro display it was reading 480p, regardless of the channel I was on.*

If I understood you correctly I should have seen the broadcast resolution of that channel on my Kuro display, and I did not get that!!!! It seemed to me that the HR22 was changing all resolutions to 480P!

Any thoughts?

Hidef2010


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hidef2010 said:


> Hi Steve, thanks again for the reply. I am still a little confused........
> I have a Pioneer Kuro (1080P) HDTV connected directly to the HR22 via HDMI. I have always had "Native" set to "ON" and only 1080i selected as a resolution, because if I select 1080i & 720P the TV starts to do "fireworks on the screen" when I change between channels that transmit in different resolutions eg. ( ABC =720P NBC =1080i). I believe this has something to to with the EDID.
> Anyway, yesterday I set my HR22 to 1080P only on the resolutions screen, with Native set to "ON" as usual. The funny thing was that *when I check the resolution on my Kuro display it was reading 480p, regardless of the channel I was on.*
> 
> ...


My test above used an HR24-500 with Native "off", and when only 1080p was selected, everything non-1080p went over as 1080i. Could be a quirk with the HR22 that everything's going over at 480p. Unfortunately, I don't have one to test.

Two suggestions I have would be to try only 1080p with Native "off" and see if you still get 480p.

Or select 1080i and 1080p, and set Native "on". Configured like this, I would expect all non-1080p channels to go over to your Kuro as 1080i, and 1080p to go over as 1080p.


----------



## hidef2010 (Jul 28, 2010)

Ok Steve, I see what you did... you had native set to "OFF", which means, even if only the 1080P is selected, the HR will still be doing all the scaling and not the TV. Is this correct? That is all I want to know.

Thanks


Hidef2010


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hidef2010 said:


> Is this correct?


Yes. But I'm puzzled that when you checked 1080p only on the HR22, with native "on", everything that wasn't 1080p went over as 480p. :scratchin


----------



## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

hidef2010 said:


> Ok Steve, I see what you did... you had native set to "OFF", which means, even if only the 1080P is selected, the HR will still be doing all the scaling and not the TV. Is this correct? That is all I want to know.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Hidef2010


Whether the DVR or the TV does the scaling is a result of the combination of native on/off and the resolutions selected, but not a single setting.

Native on = channel will be sent to the TV in native resolution, unless that resolution is unselected. If the channel's resolution is selected, the TV would be responsible for any scaling that needed to be done to match its display characteristics. If the channel's resolution is not checked, then the DVR will scale, usually to the next higher resolution that is checked. In this case, both the DVR and potentially the TV may be doing scaling.

Native off - user will change the resolution. Resolution stays the same until the user changes it with the format button. The format button will only cycle through resolutions that are checked. Depending upon the resolution selected, either the DVR, the TV, or both may be scaling.

Since the DVR doesn't upscale to 1080p, having that as the only checked resolution doesn't really make sense. (There is then no valid resolution for most channels to display.) It may be that results are not consistent, but depends on the resolution that was displaying when the change was made.


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## hidef2010 (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks *DogLover*, so, if all I want is for my TV (Pioneer Kuro) to do all of the processing for 1080i signals and make sure that my HR22-100 just passes this through to the TV "untouched" - is by *setting Native to "ON" and SELECTING 1080i. CORRECT???*

I know I should also choose 720p but the EDID causes my TV to do "fireworks" when flipping from a 720P channel like Fox to a 1080i channel like NBC. Since there are alot more 1080i than 720P channels I will leave my setting the way I described above in this post.

PS. I realized what you mean on having just the 1080P only selected, I was just trying it out, also I believe Native was OFF when Steve posted the info. I had it ON.

Thanks

Hidef2010


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hidef2010 said:


> I know I should also choose 720p but the EDID causes my TV to do "fireworks" when flipping from a 720P channel like Fox to a 1080i channel like NBC. Since there are alot more 1080i than 720P channels I will leave my setting the way I described above in this post.


You found a work-around, but those "fireworks" sound like a bug you should report in the appropriate issues thread for whatever software release you're on. I may have missed them, but I don't see any others posting a similar issue. It could be something specific to your model Kuro and HR they need to look at. Just a thought.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

hidef2010 said:


> Thanks *DogLover*, so, if all I want is for my TV (Pioneer Kuro) to do all of the processing for 1080i signals and make sure that my HR22-100 just passes this through to the TV "untouched" - is by *setting Native to "ON" and SELECTING 1080i. CORRECT???*
> 
> I know I should also choose 720p but the EDID causes my TV to do "fireworks" when flipping from a 720P channel like Fox to a 1080i channel like NBC. Since there are alot more 1080i than 720P channels I will leave my setting the way I described above in this post.
> 
> ...


You may also want to select 480i or 480p if you TV will allow those inputs. That way, the receiver will pass the SD signal, and the TV will upconvert it. However, if the "fireworks" are part of the TV's HDMI resolution re-negotiation, you may have them with those resolutions as well.


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## kovach (Feb 22, 2010)

The problem I've always had with using those calibration DVDs is, it'll set your DVD input up just fine...but depending on your DVD player settings, that may not carry over to the other inputs.

Can always try the settings at http://www.tweaktv.com/


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## hidef2010 (Jul 28, 2010)

DogLover said:


> You may also want to select 480i or 480p if you TV will allow those inputs. That way, the receiver will pass the SD signal, and the TV will upconvert it. However, if the "fireworks" are part of the TV's HDMI resolution re-negotiation, you may have them with those resolutions as well.


Hi *Doglover, VOS & Steve*, well, I tried just about every combination I could think of for trying to eliminate those "fireworks" when flipping from a 720P channel to a 1080i channel, this is obviously with Native set to "ON" & 1080i & 720P checked in the resolutions screen, so as to allow my TV (pioneer Kuro) to do all of the scaling. NO DICE!!
I then tried using component cables directly from the HR22-100 to the TV, the "fireworks" where not as pronounced and the time to flip between channels was alot shorter but they were still there. 
*Component cables do not use any type of EDID or HTCP negotiation as I believe it only applies to HDMI, so I am preplexed as to why this is happening. *  When I use my Blu ray player, and I change the output resolutions, I do not get any type of "fireworks" either with HDMI or component. I tested this before.
I really don't know what to think anymore..... I thought I would just get a black screen for 1-2 sec as I flip channels with component cables but the "fireworks" are still there.

PS. I even tried going throught my AVR (Integra 7.6) using both the HDMI & component cables to see if it would make a difference. Again, no change, although using the HDMI through the AVR the "fireworks" where not as pronounced and the time to flip between channels was alot shorter than having the HDMI go from the HR22-100 directly to the TV. 
BTW my AVR allows only complete pass-through of the HDMI signal, so I know its not the AVR, since my BD player is also going through the AVR.

Any thoughts from anyone.

Thanks

Hidef2010


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hidef2010 said:


> Hi *Doglover, VOS & Steve*, well, I tried just about every combination I could think of for trying to eliminate those "fireworks" when flipping from a 720P channel to a 1080i channel, this is obviously with Native set to "ON" & 1080i & 720P checked in the resolutions screen, so as to allow my TV (pioneer Kuro) to do all of the scaling. NO DICE!!
> I then tried using component cables directly from the HR22-100 to the TV, the "fireworks" where not as pronounced and the time to flip between channels was alot shorter but they were still there.
> *Component cables do not use any type of EDID or HTCP negotiation as I believe it only applies to HDMI, so I am preplexed as to why this is happening. *  When I use my Blu ray player, and I change the output resolutions, I do not get any type of "fireworks" either with HDMI or component. I tested this before.
> I really don't know what to think anymore..... I thought I would just get a black screen for 1-2 sec as I flip channels with component cables but the "fireworks" are still there.
> ...


Since you've ruled out the HDMI cable as the problem, do you have another HR you can swap the HR22 with, to see if the problem stays with the HR or the TV?


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