# Metallic tape over firewire ports on new 921s shipping



## DMitchell (Jul 15, 2003)

I posted this over at AVSFORUM earlier.

I am one of the Dish 5000 HDTV orphans. I just took my new 921 that arrived on April 8th out of the box. 

The firewire ports have a piece of metallic tape over them.

The screws are missing from the rear of the unit. Probably this unit was on the bench being repaired / modified.

Sticking with E* was based on the understanding the the firewire DVHS ports would be activated in the near future for archival purposes. 

What message is E* Dish Network sending me with this metallic tape over the firewire ports?

I assume I have 30 days to return this unit. 

Anyone else receive their unit in this condition?

Dennis


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Yes, I forget which thread here, but you are not the first to see this. Do a search - you'll find it.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I recieved mine in the same program and yes indeed, the Dish Wire port is covered with silver tape. Hopefully that is just to indicate that it is not usable yet and they'll just ask you to remove the tape after the update, but they didn't cover the unused USB ports.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

All new 921s are being shipped with the firewire ports taped over. I also don't know what this means, and haven't been able to get any word about dishwire at all from Dish. I'm still trying, but it certainly appears that no one is willing to talk about it right now.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I haven't pulled the tape off, has anyone confirmed the port hardware is underneath?


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

I am saying this out loud. If I do not have an offical answer from DISH by Thursday, I am demanding a refund on the 921, which I just received and which has the ports covered. This is out and out false advertising and treachery on their part.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Go ahead and demand your refund now Matt. You aren't going to have an official answer by Thursday. I'm pretty sure of that.


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

Cheezmo said:


> I haven't pulled the tape off, has anyone confirmed the port hardware is underneath?


They're still there on mine. It'll be interesting to see if that continues to be the case on newer units.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

I am very glad to be one of those getting the first 921's. The tape over the ports has no effect on the working of the unit. Mark and Dish are working very hard to bring about important software changes to make the 921 even better. This and most appreciate what Mark has done. We are lookin forward to the new update(not at returning our unit, for sure).


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## cracka (Feb 6, 2004)

Well, it's extremely disappointing, but I'd be very surprised if we ever get our DishWire ports activated on the 921, from all indications. It's been said earlier by those with contacts in the 921 development team that this feature would be technically available "sooner rather than later". Now, apparently a secretive decision has been made regarding these ports, as someone had to go to the explicit effort to cover them on the new 921 replacements.

Can anyone think of a valid technical reason for covering the ports with metallic tape? Did we have some nimrods jamming toslink cables in there & starting a fire? 

The reason for the tape would be an excellent question for the upcoming Charlie Chat, especially as the 921 spec sheet on Dish's site still touts the DishWire functionality.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

The main problem is Mark Duffy and CJ Meany at the Dish Exec office know exactly what the expections of the 5000+modulator users are. They know that these customers expect to be able to use the machine for time shifting and DVHS recording. They personally called each 5000+mod owner with a complaint on file before shipping these machines. At no point was the removal of key feature, that is still being advertised, advised to these customers. This is not a case where the contract CSRs gave the customers bad information. These are seasoned Echostar employees who are close to executive desision makers.

On an interesting note, Home Theater Magazine's May issue is out. It has a full DVR feature grid. The firewire features of the 921 are absent from this grid, even though other DVR units with firewire are noted. 

That being said, with out firewire for archives the advantage of the 921 over the soon to be released HD Tivo is MUCH less.


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## rrg (Dec 19, 2003)

Kagato said:


> That being said, without firewire for archives the advantage of the 921 over the soon to be released HD Tivo is MUCH less.


Indeed so. Given the nature of this forum I've refrained from speculation on this subject until now, but this pasting-over of the 1394 ports is just too much. The most (some would say the only) reasonable inference to be drawn is that Echostar doesn't intend that these ports will ever be used.

Absent 1394 capability I can hardly think of anything that the 921 does better than the HD TiVo. The TiVo's DVR interface is mature and full-featured, it's well-integrated with the program guide both for satellite and OTA, and its dual-tuner capability works for both OTA and satellite. And even though it's hard to know until the unit is actually shipping to customers, it seems likely that it will be a more stable software platform on initial delivery.


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

cracka said:


> The reason for the tape would be an excellent question for the upcoming Charlie Chat, especially as the 921 spec sheet on Dish's site still touts the DishWire functionality.


'me thinkst those are the type of questions that do not make it to the air on the Charlie Chats ...


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Tell them you are going to ask a question on CC Autopay, you'll get right through. :grin:


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I think that we all need to calm down here a little bit and wait until there is some official word about the dishwire ports, and if they are ever going to be activated. The last official word that I had a couple of months ago was that they would definitely be available in a future software update.

Obviously things behind the scenes (read ******* Hollywood) can change, but until we do have official word about this, let's not go off the deep end...

And with that, this thread is moving to the Dish DVR forum for further discussion. The developers are well aware of what we want on the dishwire front. They can't do a damn thing about it though until the upper management gives the go-ahead.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

cracka said:


> Well, it's extremely disappointing, but I'd be very surprised if we ever get our DishWire ports activated on the 921, from all indications. It's been said earlier by those with contacts in the 921 development team that this feature would be technically available "sooner rather than later". Now, apparently a secretive decision has been made regarding these ports, as someone had to go to the explicit effort to cover them on the new 921 replacements.
> 
> Can anyone think of a valid technical reason for covering the ports with metallic tape? Did we have some nimrods jamming toslink cables in there & starting a fire?
> 
> The reason for the tape would be an excellent question for the upcoming Charlie Chat, especially as the 921 spec sheet on Dish's site still touts the DishWire functionality.


I purchased a Sony PC recently and they covered the Ethernet port with metallic tape so as to insure pea brains didn't jam phone lines in them, the Ethernet port of course was functional. It just was policy to put the tape over it.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Throwbot said:


> I purchased a Sony PC recently and they covered the Ethernet port with metallic tape so as to insure pea brains didn't jam phone lines in them, the Ethernet port of course was functional. It just was policy to put the tape over it.


Having said that , I am still using the JVC Dish HM-DSR DVHS sat recorder which I got in Feb 1998 , Way ahead of it's time, the digital recorder has served me well, anyway I remember there is a plate on the back covering a "High Speed Data Port" for future use . So 6 years later????????? I wouldn't hold your breath mate.
Maybe I can connect the Dish Wire of my 921 (don't get me going CAUSE I DON"T HAVE ONE YET!) to the High speed data port and record to a DVHS tape. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I think that we all need to calm down here a little bit and wait until there is some official word about the dishwire ports, and if they are ever going to be activated. The last official word that I had a couple of months ago was that they would definitely be available in a future software update.


 Calm down? I think not. There will be nothing official on this because they are not going want to tell us about it. The value of the 921 without Firewire is sh*t. The HD-TIVO or any cable PVR with Firewire will be more desireable. WHen I called and talked to some DISH people at the exec office, they were stuttering like mad, unable to come up with an answer as to why the ports were covered. They also tried to tell me the JVC30K was never mentioned as a supported device. When I corrected them on that (Charlie himself mentioned it) they seemed completely lost as to what to say and I just hung up on them.

I have 30 days with my 921 and without anything official from DISH that the Firewire is guarenteed to go on (I want it in writing) the 921 goes back for a refund and I go HD cable when TeleMedia gets my town up and running this Summer.

I and others specifically asked C.J. and Mark Duffy if there was any chance of the Firewire not being turned on for use with the JVC30k's and both said no, it was just in beta software and when stable, would be released.

I believe they lied to us. If not, then they should have no problem giving us something in writing that the Firewire will be turned on within a year and that the feature is NOT being abandoned.

Remember, the 721 had a port in the back that was not active, that was later covered up with the silver tape, and was then gone from later production models.


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## Davech (Mar 9, 2004)

I am one of those 5000 mod people still waiting to hear from CJ as to when my 921 will be shipping. Given this new developement, I will be declining the 921 when he calls! 
Even at $699, without the firewire active this unit has no value to me. Given the fact that no one can, or will, give us a straight answer about "Dishwire," I have to conclude that they are not going to activate it, period!

Unless Charlie has some good explanation on tomorrow's chat, I will have to start exploring other options. This is not only a deal killer on the 921, it is the final straw for me with E*! I feel sorry for all those 921 owners who have been led to believe that the Firewire will go live, as I'm sure most of you are like me, and own either the JVC 30k or 40k. This is certainly much more of an issue to me than the loss of Viacom or Turner stations! If E* wants to play in the "high end" then they should deliver what they promise!


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

cracka said:


> Can anyone think of a valid technical reason for covering the ports with metallic tape?


To cut down on support calls from people wanting to know what that thing on the back is for.

I seem to recall that for awhile, the 721 shipped with tape over the usb jack on the back.

Support calls are expensive, and they add up very fast. If people don't see something, they won't call. Tape is cheap.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Big Bob said:


> To cut down on support calls from people wanting to know what that thing on the back is for.
> 
> I seem to recall that for awhile, the 721 shipped with tape over the usb jack on the back.
> 
> Support calls are expensive, and they add up very fast. If people don't see something, they won't call. Tape is cheap.


The USB was never covered on the 721. The port in question was under the SAT inputs. If you looked on the inside it appeared that something was supposed to go there but was never implimented in production. (If I recall most people thought it looked like Ethernet was supposed to go there.) I've had four 721's so far. In later production runs the hole for this port was no longer punched.


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## rodb (Dec 5, 2003)

If Dish won't do it maybe the hackers can enable firewire by patching the firmware.


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## cracka (Feb 6, 2004)

Big Bob said:


> To cut down on support calls from people wanting to know what that thing on the back is for.


The typical 921 owner isn't the one who's going to call into support asking about those funny little ports on the back, when just about all of us know more about 1394 than the drone on the other end of the support line.

Coupled with the fact that the option is there on the menu for DVHS setup -- but greyed out -- this appears much more sinister than support-call-avoidance.

FWIW, which ain't much, I have my 921 in the middle of a 1394 daisy chain right now, and the signals do pass thru it okay.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Maybe lots of people are calling to ask why doesnt this port work? Make it disappear end of calls

On the other hand it nmight be like 721 internet access, 6000 open tv and others.

The old adage buy whatever for the features it offers TODAY not promised ones that may or may not occur in the future is more valid today than 7 or 8 years ago when I first shopped for satellite tv.

Espically since the high end boxes are so expensive....


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Maybe lots of people are calling to ask why doesnt this port work? Make it disappear end of calls


That would make sense if they were covering the USB ports as well.

Another possible reason is EMI or RF interference. Though you'd still might think they would cover all unused ports.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I have suggested to upper level people at Dish read this thread and the one over at AVS started by Matt and give me some kind of response that I can pass along to you.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Maybe they are listening to their Moms. If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all.

I'm sure that its the lawyers that are keeping this from happening and not the technology.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm pretty convinced of this as well, and along the same lines I believe the lawyers are also why Dish hasn't said anything about it.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

But what is different between satellite and cable? Cable set top boxes are shipping now with active firewire ports that allow archiving to JVC DVHS VCR's. Why would the lawyers only be concerned with satellite?


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

Cheezmo said:


> But what is different between satellite and cable? Cable set top boxes are shipping now with active firewire ports that allow archiving to JVC DVHS VCR's. Why would the lawyers only be concerned with satellite?


E*'s lawyers are only concerned about E*. The safest thing to do is to do nothing.

However, you can't do business without incurring some risk. The most persuasive argument you can make to E*, I think, is that their cable competitors are providing Firewire, as you note. The lack of this compability in the 921 makes it much less competitive.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Did it occur to anybody that it may not be a legal issue at all? Perhaps they realized that they simply cannot get it to work!

If DirecTV and Cable are doing it, then most likely the legal issue is moot. However, simply looking at Dish's technical and manufacturing track record speaks volumes about their ability to provide these kinds of extra features. (Heck, they can't get basic features working correctly much of the time.)


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

garypen, I was told from someone at E* that it was a legal issue. this was bout 1 month ago.
FREAK!


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

I guess E's lawyers don't have cahones like D's or Cable's lawyers do.


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## cracka (Feb 6, 2004)

garypen said:


> I guess E's lawyers don't have cahones like D's or Cable's lawyers do.


Well, I don't think you'll find firewire on any of D*'s HD receivers, at least as they're shipped from the manufacturer. Give them credit for not being a tease, though.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Oops. You are correct sir (about the HDTivo). I just double checked the specs. I don't know why I thought it had one.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

E has been very aggressive about suing people. I doubt thats the issue.


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## Davech (Mar 9, 2004)

I sent an e-mail to the Charlie chat regarding this issue, unfortunately, they did not surprise me by actually responding to it! I have a hunch we will get no information on "Dishwire" in the near future. You can imagine what the fallout would be if they are opting not to offer this promised feature. I for one, will not be taking advantage of the 5000 mod offer without some assurance that "Dishwire" will actually go live. I would also imagine demand for the 921 would decrease significantly. It's my guess they'll ride the fence as long as they can, before commenting on "Dishwire" one way or the other.


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## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

Maybe they hired some lawyers who used to work for ReplayTV? Their first generation models also had non-functioning firewire ports...


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

Charlie Chat would not let me through and the person I spoke to had no idea why the tape was there, but said "We do not anticipate Firerwire being turned on until next year, if at all."

I spoke to Mark Duffy last night, gave him an earful while he tried to say Firewire was never mentioned as being turned on, etc. etc. After I quoted Charlie from his Charlie Chats last year I got less of that kind of BS from Mark (who is only doing his job). Anyway, he promised me a CB before my 30 days with the 921 are up. We'll see. He also mentioned they are well aware of the anger in the forums.

If I don't have answers, I return the 921 and will leave DISH for my local cable Co this Summer (my town will be HD live in June or July). I HATE the thought of that scenario after spening so much time and money on DISH, but I would rather deal with the worst cable company in the world if they have Firewire (and they do) and DISH does not.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

I was watching HBO on my brother-in-law's Adelphia digital cable system. The picture quality on his 100" screen was much better than Dish's on my 100" screen. No artifacts or color banding at all in contrast to Dish's low resolution, compressed picture. In fact I saw no evidence of compression on Adelphia. It looked as good as C band.

Does cable really have that much bandwidth over satellite and if so what can Dish do about it when their customers defect to cable other than a 'cable pig' marketing campaign ? Not to speak of the cheap & fast internet connection on cable. Satellite internet is high latency, unreliable, and expensive.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I guess that the writing is on th wall now. There will not be active firewire ports on the 921. They likely would cover the ports with metal instead of tape if they could.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I have made very sure that various people at various levels at Dish are aware of the concern and anger that we're going though here...


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

Matt Stevens said:


> Charlie Chat would not let me through and the person I spoke to had no idea why the tape was there, but said "We do not anticipate Firerwire being turned on until next year, if at all."


Man if that is the case, I have HAD IT!
I am emailing (again) [email protected]


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Reportedly the viacom issue cost charlie 10,000 subs. how much clout does that leave 921 users? If its a legal issue they should just admit it and move on, giving anyone who wants a complete refund.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Not sure if they are really different but there is another email address for Charlie Ergen that I discovered in the past. Any emails I hve sent to that address seemed to have been answered by Charlie himself. Anyone who has ever received any email from someone at Dish should be able to figure it out in 10 seconds.


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## Davech (Mar 9, 2004)

It's really too bad, after giving Charlie and Co. the benefit if the doubt for the last 6 years, I'm going to have to "feed the pig." My first choice would be to remain a loyal E* customer, but I can't continue to do business with a company that out and out lies to it's customers, and then blames the customer for "misunderstanding" or "making assumptions." It really is unfortunate. I guess in their eyes we're not capable of understanding the truth. Helluva way to run a business! E* has definitely lost their way. :nono2:


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Davech said:


> E* has definitely lost their way. :nono2:


Hey thats my line how dare you use it


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Hey thats my line how dare you use it


Bob, a number of people have been using that line for months to discribe what's been going on at E*. It's really sad what's been happening since late last year.


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

Mark, what do those people say?

Can't they just say Yes or No on this issue? They just need to END the speculation and les us move on so we can decide what to do. They are losing customers because of this super secretive attitude and are about to lose more, starting with me, if they don't come clean.


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## Davech (Mar 9, 2004)

Bob - In the last few months it has become increasingly more obvious, even to a loyal sub like myself, that E* has lost their way. I am certainly not out to troll, more than anything I am disappointed that a company I once held in high regard has fallen so far. Most of my disappointment stems from the fact that they choose to lie and dissemble, rather than come out and tell us the truth. To me, it would be preferable to hear an honest answer, even if I don't like it! I'm just glad that I didn't shell out the $700 for this product based on the expectation that dishwire would one day go live. I feel bad for those who have purchased the 921 and expected to be able to archive HD. Nuff said.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Matt Stevens said:


> Charlie Chat would not let me through and the person I spoke to had no idea why the tape was there, but said "We do not anticipate Firerwire being turned on until next year, if at all."
> 
> I spoke to Mark Duffy last night, gave him an earful while he tried to say Firewire was never mentioned as being turned on, etc. etc. After I quoted Charlie from his Charlie Chats last year I got less of that kind of BS from Mark (who is only doing his job). Anyway, he promised me a CB before my 30 days with the 921 are up. We'll see. He also mentioned they are well aware of the anger in the forums.
> 
> If I don't have answers, I return the 921 and will leave DISH for my local cable Co this Summer (my town will be HD live in June or July). I HATE the thought of that scenario after spening so much time and money on DISH, but I would rather deal with the worst cable company in the world if they have Firewire (and they do) and DISH does not.


You can't tell the call screeners you are going to ask a hot topic question. If you want to get through tell them you want to know the benifits of signing up for CC autopay! :grin:


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

They screen the calls to well. Charlie likely isnt aware of things and thats sad. A E insider said some months ago, we dont want to be embarased It would do everyone a world of good to allow all nearly calls. I remember the good old days when issues raised on the chats got policies changed. The asked for it you got it.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Matt Stevens said:


> Mark, what do those people say?
> 
> Can't they just say Yes or No on this issue? They just need to END the speculation and les us move on so we can decide what to do. They are losing customers because of this super secretive attitude and are about to lose more, starting with me, if they don't come clean.


You're not getting any argument out of me...I have no idea what they think they can possibly gain by ignoring this. I'm getting just as much a deaf ear on this as you guys are.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I'm getting just as much a deaf ear on this as you guys are.


That is not a good sign.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Ever notice sky reports avoids such negative E stories. Although admittely I pitched once once and after being completely IGNORED by the CEO office got a call back the next morning You might all try calling and e mailing sky reports. that might get someone at dish to make the final announcement

That way you can all move on.............


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## bdemz (Sep 18, 2002)

Just got mine and its covered up


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

If E continues doing stuff like this more and more of you will sound like me. This is so strange......... and sad


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> If E continues doing stuff like this more and more of you will sound like me.


That would *never* happen (thank goodness), even if dump Dish and all the equipment I recently purchased.


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

Oh CRAP this is not good. Quoted from satelliteguys.us main page news:
'SatelliteGuys has learned from various sources that the Firewire (aka DishWire) ports on the Dishplayer 921 HDTV DVR will NEVER be activated due to hardware issues.

SatelliteGuys has asked Echostar for an official statement for an official statment on the status of the firewire ports. SatelliteGuys will consider a "No comment" or no reply to our request as a confirmation of these reports from our sources.

We will post that update here as soon as we have it.'
MotherfER!!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Freak - there are some inaccuracies in what Scott was told. But, this is definitely not looking good...


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

So...I guess I was correct in post #31.  

It's just a matter of looking at E's track record to assume that any time a feature does not work, it is due to their technical ineptitude, not legal issues.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

It is official now, SatelliteGuys got the scoop direct from Dish Network.

What a disappointment. Current 921 owners should be outraged. I am glad I never got my unit.

Mark is you knew about this how come you did not say anything?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

It matches what I heard from my source. Sadly this made my list of things that didnt survive longer

Now how many will vote with their feet and buy a D TIVO?


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

I will. I just got my 921 last week after trading in my Dish 5000. I'm going to find out how long I have to return it and then do so.

After this, how confident is anyone that we'll get guide data for local channels? I'm sure there are some hardware issues to prevent that.

At least DirecTivo will ship with that working. Who knows, I may switch to cable in the next year if that is the only thing that will allow archival recording.


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## Davech (Mar 9, 2004)

Time to "feed the pig!" :nono2:


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## smooth28la (Oct 7, 2002)

Another way to voice your concerns:

Mark Jackson
Echostar Communications
90 Inverness Circle East
Englewood, CO 80112
303-706-5035
email:
[email protected]

Mark Jackson is the co-host of the TechChat.


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

I email Mark and Charlie this morning. I quickly got a reply from charlie...that he was sending it to Mark. At least they are awake over there.
FREAK!


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Theres a unverified rumor the trouble is activating the port might make pirating easier
 It remains to be seen if thats true or a smoke screen, the source has been somewhat useful in the past occasionally right on target.


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## Cheezmo (Feb 5, 2004)

That makes it sound like while the ports may have "worked", they may not be capable of supporting the required (by the MPAA) copy protection.


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