# From Dish: P284 OTA Questions



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Guys, I spoke with the 811 team this morning. They request your help so they isolate and correct the issue faster.

1.) On the new Inverted BSOD. This is where you have been on an OTA for some time and you channel into a Satellite channel. Audio/Video remains but you lose guide info. The technical explanation for this is that they have seen issues with the MPEG decoder restarting, they have all but eliminated the major failure mode which was the bothersome BSOD which is where guide info remains but Audio/Video blacks out. The second failure mode has now become more visable and they need to be able to isolate the sequence of events leading up to the inverted BSOD. So E*'s request is that you let us know what the sequence of events is leading up to the Inverted BSOD.

2.) Some users have reported channel flickering on OTA. We need to have a more accurate description of this. Is this like the TNT-HD reduced frame rate thing were it actually skips several frames or is this like a brightness/contrast flickering? 

Thanks,
Jason


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## William M. (Oct 7, 2004)

Hi Jason,

It is not a brightness or contrast thing for me and it is not a reduced frame rate issue either.

To me it looks like you are watching a show and the screen goes black then the show comes back on. It cycles very quickly and the cycle appears to be related to the increase and decrease of the signal strength. I assume this because the info banner stays up and I can watch the signal strength "bounce".

I can digitally record it at lunch and send you an mpeg video file today.

(Do not worry I will keep the file small.)

Email me at my work email address and let me know where to email you the file.

Thanks for your help.

-Bill M.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Guys, I spoke with the 811 team this morning. They request your help so they isolate and correct the issue faster.
> 
> 1.) On the new Inverted BSOD. This is where you have been on an OTA for some time and you channel into a Satellite channel. Audio/Video remains but you lose guide info. The technical explanation for this is that they have seen issues with the MPEG decoder restarting, they have all but eliminated the major failure mode which was the bothersome BSOD which is where guide info remains but Audio/Video blacks out. The second failure mode has now become more visable and they need to be able to isolate the sequence of events leading up to the inverted BSOD. So E*'s request is that you let us know what the sequence of events is leading up to the Inverted BSOD.
> 
> ...


This has occurred 3 times since receiving P284. One time, I noticed that the guide simply would not go out any more than 3 hours (approx). I was watching Discovery Channel -SD at the time. I also noticed that not all channels ststed No Info. I tried to get around this roadblock a few times by hitting the guide button, changing channels, etc. Then it just locked up with No Info on all visible channels & times.

WHen I rebooted, I had noticed that 2 or 3 of my OTA-DT channels in my FAVORITES were deleted.

On another ocassion, I powered up the TV & 811 after a good noght's rest. I found No Info on all channels and could not navigate via the guide.

I hope this helps. I'll try to watch more closely next time & will report.


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## fixoman (Dec 23, 2003)

Jason Nipp said:


> Guys, I spoke with the 811 team this morning. They request your help so they isolate and correct the issue faster.
> 
> 1.) On the new Inverted BSOD. This is where you have been on an OTA for some time and you channel into a Satellite channel. Audio/Video remains but you lose guide info. The technical explanation for this is that they have seen issues with the MPEG decoder restarting, they have all but eliminated the major failure mode which was the bothersome BSOD which is where guide info remains but Audio/Video blacks out. The second failure mode has now become more visable and they need to be able to isolate the sequence of events leading up to the inverted BSOD. So E*'s request is that you let us know what the sequence of events is leading up to the Inverted BSOD.
> 
> ...


As for the flickering OTA channel: What I am seeing is a constant flickering about every 1 or 2 seconds but the signal strength is fine but when the info button is pressed the flickering will stop but as soon as the view or cancel button is pressed to remove info box the flickering resumes. It is only happening on just 1 (CBS) out of 7 OTA channels that I receive. I did email the station in question and they are willing to make some changes in their encoder to see if that helps so as of now not really sure it is an 811 issue.I will contact them tomorrow and post results after changes have been made.


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## misterdsp (Apr 22, 2004)

I sometimes get the "dropped frame" stuttering on OTA, and have it now with P284 and had it before P284. For me, it seems to happen when the OTA receiver glitches (e.g. due to low signal strength). Switching to a satellite channel then back to OTA fixes it.


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## julesism (Feb 25, 2004)

yea, it's nice not having the BSOD anymore, and the "frame rate drop" is easy to fix by just changing channels, but now many times I get the "no info/locked guide" problem and I have to unplug the box. seems like this has taken the place of the BSOD.

My parents are the ones who watch the 811 the most so I don't see them occur. I just get called to come fix it.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

how many of you that are experiencing the inverted BSOD are using lock channels? I was having problems like that back a few months ago, along with the regular BSOD (no audio, no video, only way to fix is sometimes soft reboot, or likely unplug)( I do not get locals OTA, so this isn't exactly like the problem that Jason described, but it is very close) I found that after I unlocked the channels I didn't get this any more. Anyways it would be interesting to know if anyone that is getting this uses locks. (I don't mean PPV or Adult locks, I mean the channel lock, where you go and select channels that you don't want in your guide, like music, shopping, etc...) I was getting it on my local channels mostly (it was doing it on other channels too sometime all channels, and sometimes some channnels, and sometimes the guide would have no info, but if I changed to that channel it would have info, and again sometimes it would have data in the guide but no data on the channel banner), and I don't know if it was because I was locking the 8*** range local channels from my guide (I was only using 02-99 for locals, so I didn't see a reason for the repeated locals at the 8*** range), or if it was because I was using locks, but my locals would lose their data several times a day, and the only way to get it back was by either doing a switch test, soft reboot or unplugging my receiver and then plugging it back in.


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## misterdsp (Apr 22, 2004)

This morning, I was watching a digital OTA (channel 30) and the receiver black screened and rebooted. Eventually, I was watching channel 30 again. A short while later, did a Channel Recall to an analog OTA (channel 61). Recalled back to the digital OTA (channel 30) and the screen went black, still had sound and I could hit Clear and see the channel information. Did a Channel Recall to analog OTA (channel 61), got picture and sound. Incremented the channel to a different digital OTA than the original (channel 61), the receiver locked up solid. Black screen, sound, no response to the remote or front panel. Did a power button reset and the receiver eventually came back to the digital OTA channel 30.

P284 is a little more reliable than P281, but still a LEMON.

Last night I tuned to digital OTA channel 30 and it was in black and white for aobut a minute before it brought in color. This bug has been there ever since I first got the 811, back in December 2004.

My Dish contract expires in May 2005. Counting the days.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

If you guys haven't seen it, take a look at the technical discussion document that I posted and stickied at the top of the forum yesterday. It's an explanation from Dish about what's going on with some of the P284 bugs, including the black screen issues and the flicker issues.


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## davidhite (Jan 13, 2005)

fixoman said:


> As for the flickering OTA channel: What I am seeing is a constant flickering about every 1 or 2 seconds but the signal strength is fine but when the info button is pressed the flickering will stop but as soon as the view or cancel button is pressed to remove info box the flickering resumes. It is only happening on just 1 (CBS) out of 7 OTA channels that I receive. I did email the station in question and they are willing to make some changes in their encoder to see if that helps so as of now not really sure it is an 811 issue.I will contact them tomorrow and post results after changes have been made.


I'm seeing this also - I just noticed it tonight but only on ABC (katu, Portland, OR). The other 5 or 6 OTA channels work fine.


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## fixoman (Dec 23, 2003)

davidhite said:


> I'm seeing this also - I just noticed it tonight but only on ABC (katu, Portland, OR). The other 5 or 6 OTA channels work fine.


The tv station I contacted about the issue with the flickering (channel blacking in and out every 1 to 2 seconds) They made some changes in the encryption and that solved my problems so the flickering OTA channel in my case was station related not the 811. Let the station in question know about your issue to see if any more 811 owners have already done so. They made have made some changes that you are not aware of.


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## Cokeswigga (Jan 25, 2005)

One issue that I am having with one station (KABC) is that for most of the time it shows a signal strength of 49, then shows an error. After waiting a few seconds or minutes the channel tunes in fine with a signal strength of 80+. It will then occasionally drop and start all over again. 
All the other stations from LA (at the same antenna farm) do NOT have this issue, and they all have a signal strength of 80+.


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## JOprandi (Jan 26, 2005)

Cokeswigga,

I am having the same problem with one my locals. WBNS channel 10(21DT). It will sit at 49% go to the adjust your antenna error for quite a while and then the channel will come up with a 80%+ signal strength. 

Sunday I also had an issue with it rebooting after about 2 minutes after it locked on. It would go through a complete power cycle...acquiring sat signal... I called dish tech support and they told me to unplug it from the surge protector and plug it directly into the wall. I did that and it seemed to work. What is odd it that it would only happen when I watched that channel or had been on that channel and switched to another channel, even if I switched to a sat channel. Does it try to pull more power when acquirring OTA channels??


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## hartal (Jan 30, 2005)

I just got a new Samsung DLP TV in November and upgraded my Dish reception in December.

I was very happy to find this forum to get answers to some of the issues I was having with my new 811 receiver. Thanks especially to Jason for moderating this forum and for maintaining the contact with the 811 team.

Implementing software for an emerging standard is a difficult task and I think the Dish 811 team is doing a pretty good job at it. The receiver isn't perfect, but the fact that they are rolling out fixes on such a frequent schedule is great.

Wanted to get that in before I actually asked my question about the 811.

I've been following most of the PSIP discussions and decided I wanted to understand it better. I downloaded a very nice tutorial about it that I found at the following web site:
http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/government_solutions/psip_tutorial/index.asp

(I hope it is okay to post links like that - if not please let me know so I won't do it again)

I also downloaded the actually standards docs from the ATSC site.

My question is this. It appears that a broadcaster who follows the standard will be broadcasing program guide information for each minor channel they are broadcasting on the major channel. Why does the 811 limit program guide support to the channel that matches the analog channel that is available on the Dish Satellite?

Why not just use the guide info from the PSIP stream for the OTA digital channels?

If this has already been asked and answered before, I apologize in advance. Someone just point me at the right forum thread that I should read.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

hartal said:


> I just got a new Samsung DLP TV in November and upgraded my Dish reception in December.
> 
> I was very happy to find this forum to get answers to some of the issues I was having with my new 811 receiver. Thanks especially to Jason for moderating this forum and for maintaining the contact with the 811 team.
> 
> ...


Welcome hartel!! :welcome_s

First let me answer the question:

Why does the 811 limit program guide support to the channel that matches the analog channel that is available on the Dish Satellite?

I don't think it does. At least in my cause I got program info for channels I now are not available as channels on Dish. Dish does not have Analog channels so I am assuming locals. I know that with Dish rolled out the guide support it was not available in all areas. I don't have time to check this out so you might want to do a search. Maybe somebody that remembers this issue will chime in.

If can find the forum rules here.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23

As to the link, Linking is cool if it is not a blatent advertisement and if you feel it adds to you post or you want to provide a support for your thoughts or give the credit to the where you got the info.

This is however, an official 811 support forum so if this wonder too far from the 811 conversation and more onto PSIP in general, I will move it. As to other threads of this nature, Click on Search and you should be able to answer that question.

Once again welcome and dive right in!!


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

moman19 said:


> This has occurred 3 times since receiving P284. One time, I noticed that the guide simply would not go out any more than 3 hours (approx). I was watching Discovery Channel -SD at the time. I also noticed that not all channels ststed No Info. I tried to get around this roadblock a few times by hitting the guide button, changing channels, etc. Then it just locked up with No Info on all visible channels & times.
> 
> WHen I rebooted, I had noticed that 2 or 3 of my OTA-DT channels in my FAVORITES were deleted.
> 
> ...


As promised, here is an update (if anyone still cares):

Although my receiver has been behaving as of late, yesterday I experienced difficulty receiving ALL OTA DT channels. Keep in mind I've been getting into the habit of powering down the 811 each evening. The difficulty occurred while I was surfing. First, the EPG had NO IFO on all channels and I could not navigate although I could still watch TV. Second, I could not change channels via the EPG but could change channels via UP & DOWN with no EPG displayed. Further investigation revealed that all 7 local channels had dropped about 25% signal strength (solid upper 80s to fifty-ish).

This had occurred once before. 
I powered down the 811 and rebooted. No change. 
I pulled the plug & rebooted. No change. 
I pulled the plug, waited a few minutes, rebooted, FIXED.

Spooky, huh?


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

I've seen that same thing, the guide just list no info but you can't scroll, though you can without the guide.


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