# New Starz/Encore SUCKS



## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

The redesigned Starz and Encore channels SUCK, they leave the bug on the screen all the time. I am considering calling and canceling starz.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I tried calling the 800 customer service number for starz but there was no answer. I'll call this afternoon. I will cancel service wif these friggin logos are staying! There are too many other options for movies now.

See ya
Tony


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

why does everyone hate logos on TV channels. You're watching a TV channel, it should have it's name there, it's not a DVD you know...


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

You're kidding, right?


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## jpurkey (May 15, 2003)

I can tolerate logos on the regular network and cable channels. However, if I were paying for a premium service I would not want to see logos. Hopefully if Starz keeps it up a lot of people will complain/cancel. If not, I'd imagine the other premium services will start using logos too knowing they can get away with it.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

no i'm not kidding! keep em coming!


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> You're kidding, right?


West Palm beach is very close to the valley in LALA land. I think the channels should offer large decals to cover the tvs completely


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

It's hard to comprehend how anyone could not hate onscreen bugs!


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

I don't mind CBS or NBC HD bugs because they're not as intrusive, but most channels have TERRIBLE bugs. Worst offenders among my most-watched channels: History International, Science Channel (awful bug). Honorable mention: all ESPN channels with a ticker.

I wonder if Starz is showing the bugs to help reinforce their new naming structure. Hopefully they'll disappear before too long.


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## pomeroy (Jan 3, 2005)

I don't mind channel logos as long as they are small. Its when the logo's come ALIVE and take up half the bottom screen moving around :grin: is when I get mad. The worst channel I can think of is Sci Fi back when there show "Scare Tactics" was going strong and they kept pushing and pushing the show they had a Big monster like "bigfoot" walk accross the screen!!  I was trying to record a show and that killed it for me. I think they do that just to piss people off and from recording there shows???

As for the Movie Channels, I don't think they should use logos because your paying extra for them and you should not have to put up with that


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jpurkey said:


> I can tolerate logos on the regular network and cable channels. However, if I were paying for a premium service I would not want to see logos. Hopefully if Starz keeps it up a lot of people will complain/cancel. If not, I'd imagine the other premium services will start using logos too knowing they can get away with it.


I downgraded to AT 120 so I don't care. I didn't like Starz Theme pack.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

pomeroy said:


> I don't mind channel logos as long as they are small. Its when the logo's come ALIVE and take up half the bottom screen moving around :grin: is when I get mad. The worst channel I can think of is Sci Fi back when there show "Scare Tactics" was going strong and they kept pushing and pushing the show they had a Big monster like "bigfoot" walk accross the screen!!  I was trying to record a show and that killed it for me. I think they do that just to piss people off and from recording there shows???
> 
> As for the Movie Channels, I don't think they should use logos because your paying extra for them and you should not have to put up with that


I can't stand bugs. Yes they don't want you to record their movies.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

I especially hate those bugs that FX runs right back from a commercial. They're usually advertising some crappy program that they advertised 3 commercials back that I'm not gonna watch anyway, and for the first 10 seconds of the program you basically can't freaking watch because they'll have a freaking CAR that makes NOISE drive ALL OVER THE PICTURE. I'm sorry but I'm not gonna watch your show when you put this s*** on it.

Bugs still have their place on the broadcast nets, so you can identify stations, and in some respect on analog cable TV, for the same reason. But bugs are totally unacceptable on a paid movie service I'm paying more than $10 per month for. I'm not stupid, I can look at the guide, and figure out what channel I'm on. I don't need to be told the entire time I'm viewing the program.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't normally "hate" them... but I guess I don't like them... In over-the-air TV stations, it makes sense... I always assumed the "bugs" were meant to satisfy the old FCC requirement for station identification. Used to be a requirement on TV and radio broadcasts to every XX minutes announce your station call-sign, frequency, and so forth... don't know how rigid that is today or if it even applies to satellite/cable programming.

That said... the bugs DO bother me when they get in the way of the program. Sometimes the network or channel will take up like 1/4 of the screen at bottom left or right to advertise something coming on next or later... and its all animated and is over the top of the program I'm actually watching and I miss something that happened underneath!

I notice most when watching something like a Simpsons cartoon, where there are bits in the animation background that are in jokes or easter eggs and the like, but you can't see past the dancing bug!

Other than that... I don't have a big gripe. Even the "I'm paying for premium" doesn't work unless you apply to TNT and USA as well as HBO and the like... since we're paying for TNT and USA too you know!


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## Adam Richey (Mar 25, 2002)

I think people who pay for the premium packages have the right to complain about large logos. Customers pay good money for those channels to watch movies, and I'd rather not have a big logo blocking the movie.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

BFG said:


> why does everyone hate logos on TV channels. You're watching a TV channel, it should have it's name there, it's not a DVD you know...


No, it is my screen, and I am paying for the premium movie sans adornment. I don't want superfluous graphics distracting me from the viewing experience.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> why does everyone hate logos on TV channels. You're watching a TV channel, it should have it's name there, it's not a DVD you know...


Two words, Burn ins. If I had a high end display I would most definitely be worried about burn ins from bugs.

If I subscribed to Starz, I'd drop it. I subscribe to HBO and I pay $12 a month extra for uncut commercial free movies with out any sort of interruptions or distractions of any kind and that's how it should be. Pretty much now a days, bugs are useless, between the 25 million DBS subscribers, millions and millions of digital cable subs and analog cable subs with standalone DVRs, we have channel banners and electronic program guides that tell us what channel we're on, we don't need asinine graphics that are advertising a channel you're already watching. It's like when I subscribed to PC World and shook out all the post cards asking me if I wanted to subscribe 

When I ditch DirecTV in the summer and go back to cable, I was planning on getting everything from Time Warner, if Encore doesn't' pull their head out of their you know what by the end of July, I'll get everything but Starz/Encore.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I think the channels should offer large decals to cover the tvs completely


Yea, but I had to cut a whole in my nice front projection screen just to get rid of the logo. :grin:


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> When I ditch DirecTV in the summer and go back to cable, I was planning on getting everything from Time Warner, if Encore doesn't' pull their head out of their you know what by the end of July, I'll get everything but Starz/Encore.


Hey, why you leavin'?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

My thought on the logo bugs-

First off about the burn-in myth -
Yes it is true with such fragile overly expensive Plasma screens. But, it is a well known fact that Plasmas burn and anyone who buys one is made aware of this fact in the product literature as well as by their sincere sales person. If they choose to buy one of these screens with that knowledge then they deserve what they get. 
No it is not true with most monitor screens including CRT screens. 

Annoyance factor- I feel that any distributor of my paid programming should refrain from this annoying advertising practice. I support all who feel strongly enough about it to cancel the service. If enough people cancel, then the bugs will go away. 
But when it comes to network owned programming such as Sopranos on HBO, I have mixed feelings about them displaying their HBO bug on the screen. Afterall it is their programming, right? I produce shows ( paid programming) every week and I put my identifier on the screen as well. However, if I ever catch the cable company popping their bug over my screen area I bought from them for that half hour, they will pay me for that screen realestate! Simply put, they don't do it because they know they will pay. I'd like to see New Line Cinema, or Warner Brothers, or Paramount, go after Starz and others for modifying their film screen image as a violation of copyright, in the standard clause that states they may not re-edit the movie, etc. Of course if those contracts allow for a logo bug insertion then I guess I have no argument. I still don't like the practice as a viewer.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> First off about the burn-in myth -
> ...
> No it is not true with most monitor screens including CRT screens.


Burn in is a fact with CRT screens. Leave a static image there long enough and you will have a permanent etching on the screen. With more modern TVs and monitors it's less of a problem but it still can happen.


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

cdru said:


> Burn in is a fact with CRT screens. Leave a static image there long enough and you will have a permanent etching on the screen. With more modern TVs and monitors it's less of a problem but it still can happen.


And according to Fujitsu's white paper and several other experts burn in on Plasma is similar to burn in on CRT


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Even more so with rear projection - the high intensity of the electron beams, plus the short distance from the cathode to the phosphor in each of the three guns. When I upgrade to a flat-panel display several years from now, I'll tell potential buyers of my well-used RPTV that it is a "CNN" branded TV, as evidenced by the clearly visible logo clearly etched into the bottom-left corner of my 53" CNN screen. :sure:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

CDRU-

Oh hell! Yes indeed CRTs can burn in. My point is that with _"normal viewing habits"_ it would never happen on a CRT with logo bugs. The damn tubes would die first and they are expected to have a life of 10,000 hours or more. You know it was proven Saccharin causes cancer in lab rats too. What they didn't tell you is the study had the weekly dosage levels increased to 5 times the rat's body weight in order to achieve a positive. The politically motivated scientists published that _"saccharin causes cancer"_ and the public assumes they meant with a normal diet dosage level customarily used by the average adult in a normal diet. You're smart enough to understand what I meant with the CRT burn-in. My unscientific experience with Plasma was this- I rented a plasma screen for two days to use to display a full screen graphic as a backdrop in a show I was working on. In the two days of having that graphic up on the screen I casused the image to be burnt in! Not a bad burn in but very very slight. My own Electrohome CRT was used in 4x3 mode for about a year with no observable burnin with the occasional use of 16x9. This is considered the worst case real world scenario that causes CRT burn in. Then I got into HDTV with the 16x9 screen format and after about 18 months of use in only 16x9 I could see the effects of a rectangular burn in on the test of a 4x3 image between where the 16x9 black bars were. I had run the 16x9 format at minimum of 16-20 hours a day back then because of other issues requiring me to just leave it on for long periods. That's close to 10,000 hours! So, my own belief is that the concept of an occasional logo on the screen could burn an image on a CRT in a typical half hour TV show with 20 minutes of content, is just paranoical rubbish dreamed up to support the real complaint that is _the logos are simply annoying._
I feel that when people use silly science and paranoia to support a more real argument they lose the case as just being some nitwit. Show me proof where studies have been done to demonstrate logos burn in a CRT after normal use as they appear in real world TV and I will change my tune. For now the only credible demonstration of this is from the Plasma industry and then it was tests that were designed to prove possibility, not real world cause and effect.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Mike Richardson said:


> Hey, why you leavin'?


Time Warner (in this area) offers a channel line up that satellite can't touch, they offer every premium around and in Dolby Digital, On demand is pretty cool and cable TV subscribers get a $15 discount on Road Runner Premium. Other then the DirecTiVo, TWC outshines DBS in many areas and satellite is now behind he times. DirecTV is good, Time Warner Cable of Rochester, NY is better.


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

Mike Richardson said:


> I especially hate those bugs that FX runs right back from a commercial. They're usually advertising some crappy program that they advertised 3 commercials back that I'm not gonna watch anyway, and for the first 10 seconds of the program you basically can't freaking watch because they'll have a freaking CAR that makes NOISE drive ALL OVER THE PICTURE. I'm sorry but I'm not gonna watch your show when you put this s*** on it.


Yes, I abhor those loud kinetic "promos" that block half the screen and sound for 10 seconds. It didn't start with FX though, it started with the Fox Broadcast network. I can't count the number of times the "Joe Millionaire" bulldozer managed to ruin whatever I was watching. The Simpsons finally took FOX to task, animating their own Joe Millionaire bulldozer, which Homer sees and promptly eats, saying "Mmmmm, promo..." and then promptly spits it out, saying "Ewww, Fox!" :lol:


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## Stosh (Dec 16, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> First off about the burn-in myth -
> 
> No it is not true with most monitor screens including CRT screens.


I have a friend with a 65" Panasonic rear-projection CRT set that would beg to differ with that. His screen show obvious burn-in. No "myth" there. It can, and does, happen.


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## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> Time Warner (in this area) offers a channel line up that satellite can't touch, they offer every premium around and in Dolby Digital, On demand is pretty cool and cable TV subscribers get a $15 discount on Road Runner Premium. Other then the DirecTiVo, TWC outshines DBS in many areas and satellite is now behind he times. DirecTV is good, Time Warner Cable of Rochester, NY is better.


Steve, I know you aren't much of a sports fan, but are they still offering MSG and FSN NY on the Rochester system? I heard that they weren't and had replaced them with CSTV and one other channel.

My parents are kinda watching how this goes as they live in one of the Adelphia areas in Niagara County.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> Time Warner (in this area) offers a channel line up that satellite can't touch, they offer every premium around and in Dolby Digital, On demand is pretty cool and cable TV subscribers get a $15 discount on Road Runner Premium. Other then the DirecTiVo, TWC outshines DBS in many areas and satellite is now behind he times. DirecTV is good, Time Warner Cable of Rochester, NY is better.


Must be good there. TWC Houston does have more of the premium channels, but their standard def box is a slow ad-laden POS, on demand never works right, and cable subs here only save $2 on RoadRunner vs Earthlink.


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

Nick said:


> No, it is my screen, and I am paying for the premium movie sans adornment. I don't want superfluous graphics distracting me from the viewing experience.





Steve Mehs said:


> Two words, Burn ins. If I had a high end display I would most definitely be worried about burn ins from bugs.





Adam Richey said:


> I think people who pay for the premium packages have the right to complain about large logos. Customers pay good money for those channels to watch movies, and I'd rather not have a big logo blocking the movie.


I'll give it a couple of days and if it doesn't change I'm switching to the HBO/MAX value pak instead.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

I was flipping through the Starz and Encore channels a few minutes ago and noticed that a few movies didn't have bugs on them... 2 Fast 2 Furious on Encore West didn't have a bug, and some recent movie on Encore Mystery didn't have one either. A recent movie on either Starz or Starz West was also sans bug. Are they starting to retire the bugs, or is this some kind of specific movie thing? All the movies that I saw without a bug were all recent movies.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

The only thing that will stop the proliferation of superfluous on-screen clutter is consumer complaints being pressed directly to program providers. The 'typical' viewer is nearly brain-dead and will never rise to protest. It is up to us, the video illumati to band together and let our collective demands be heard.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Lyle_JP said:


> The Simpsons finally took FOX to task, animating their own Joe Millionaire bulldozer, which Homer sees and promptly eats, saying "Mmmmm, promo..." and then promptly spits it out, saying "Ewww, Fox!" :lol:


This kind of joke on the Simpson's goes back to when Fox first stated putting a Fox bug on the screen! (Yes folks, there was a time when there was no bugs on the screen during a program on any channel). One of the openings where the Simpson's run to the couch had a caricature of Matt Groening (Simpson's creator) come on the screen with a bottle of glass cleaner and a rag. He cleaned off the FOX bug finishing with a satisfied smile. Almost instantly a giant had with a rubber stamp re-embosses the screen with another logo. Matt's caricature's expression goes from satisfaction to that of disappointed dismay. Hilarious!

See ya
Tony


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## jpurkey (May 15, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> This kind of joke on the Simpson's goes back to when Fox first stated putting a Fox bug on the screen! (Yes folks, there was a time when there was no bugs on the screen during a program on any channel). One of the openings where the Simpson's run to the couch had a caricature of Matt Groening (Simpson's creator) come on the screen with a bottle of glass cleaner and a rag. He cleaned off the FOX bug finishing with a satisfied smile. Almost instantly a giant had with a rubber stamp re-embosses the screen with another logo. Matt's caricature's expression goes from satisfaction to that of disappointed dismay. Hilarious!


I don't remember that one. The one I remember was them grabbing the bug/Fox logo and everyone stomping on it.


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## snella1 (Jul 9, 2003)

I think that Starz just wants credit when you burn the movies on DVD and then mass produce them for sale on Ebay.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

snella1 said:


> I think that Starz just wants credit when you burn the movies on DVD and then mass produce them for sale on Ebay.


If I actually did that then I would just switch to HBO or whatever. But that's not a valid argument. It's just punishing legit users who don't want this crap on their movie.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't know if its on purpose but two of my local stations (owned by same company) have the bug on the analog channels but not on the digital. Its nice since the bug is huge.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2005)

I noticed the logos came off the Starz channels after a few days, but they were still on the Encore channels when I last checked. I would definitely have cancelled the service if they had continued the practice on the Starz channels. That kind of stuff doesn't belong on premium services.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Starz logos are BACK.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2005)

Mike Richardson said:


> Starz logos are BACK.


You're right. They are back and have shrunk to a smaller size. I'm contacting Starz to let them know I am cancelling my subscription if they don't get rid of the logos. I am not paying for a premium service with logos. Starz has no original programming anyway. There isn't anything on Starz on Encore that I can't get on DVD from Netflix.


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## Gm2 (Apr 10, 2005)

Showtime has stupid logos too


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## jpurkey (May 15, 2003)

I've been debating whether or not to get Starz for a long time. The logos certainly don't help convince me to subscribe. 

I guess PPV will soon be the only way to watch movies on tv without logos. Though, TCM and FMC are not bad about their logos YET.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

Gm2 said:


> Showtime has stupid logos too


Showtime has the annoying habit of putting their logo on the screen intermittently during movies, but at least the Showtime package has a number of logo-free channels - Flix and TMC both run logo-free and often show widescreen versions of movies.

The Starz folks need to realize that they aren't offering anything we can't get elsewhere - PPV channels, Netflix, etc. Annoying viewers with these onscreen logos is really stupid and will lead to the loss of subscribers.


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