# Cable Guy "Singing in the Rain" commercial



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

So, who's seen this newest disinformation campaign by Time Warner? (may be it's used by others too).

This commercial has this balding, middle-aged cable type installer plodding around (I don't want to call it dancing) down a "set" street holding a bundle of cable in his had. It's raining as he plods around trying to do an uncoordinated Gene Kelly. You see shots of people with their heads out the window giving dirty looks to their satellite dishes and sometime shoving the thing. All this to the tune of Gene Kelly's "Singin' in the Rain". Then the voice-over says, want to enjoy 200 digital channels even in the rain? Call....

What a friggin' pack of lies! There are three things wrong with this commercial:
1) it sells against something. Negative adds work for those disgruntled with the target of the ad, but it confirms the beliefs of lousy business practices and deceitfully nature of the advertiser for the majority of the target's customers.

2)it says mentions 200 digital channels when 100 of the channels offered are NOT digital. This is an out-right lie.

3)it give people the impression that EVERY time it rains, you can;t watch satellite TV. Most of us here already know that is a crock. a properly aligned dish will not lose signal unless there is a hell of a storm. I like to tell the story of the 15 minute rain fade event for me and the 2 DAY outage for cable in my neighborhood.

That commercial just tweaked me. I thought I'd share.

See ya
Tony


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I've seen it at school many times. Your right Tony, total BS. Around here TW is slipping at least two of their own promos into every single one of the commercial breaks no matter what show or channel. You see the one with a guy sitting on top of his roof saying to his dish 'I wanna watch the Sorprons'? I still don't get the point to that one.


----------



## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

It always astounded me that when I had cable I usually lose service every time it rained (more lightning, followed by the usual 5 second power outage) but the cable would be out for the next 4 hours. I will usually tell people it will only go out in storms that are so bad you should be in the storm shelter with "Auntie EM" and not watching TV. And you get it right back, unlike cable.


----------



## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

If they're selling AGAINST satellite....they're running scared!

It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of crooks.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

> it says mentions 200 digital channels when 100 of the channels offered are NOT digital. This is an out-right lie.


Maybe Time Warner in your area.. But Time Warner in my area has most of the channels in digital.



> it give people the impression that EVERY time it rains, you can;t watch satellite TV. Most of us here already know that is a crock. a properly aligned dish will not lose signal unless there is a hell of a storm.


That's not entirely true. With some dishes like multi sat dishes you have rain fade alot more often.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

And you know whats kind of funny, the Digital Channels provided by HITS (http://www.hits.com) are transmitted by KU band, and are subject to the same kind of interferance as DBS which is also KU (And DBS KU has a STRONGER SIGNAL then standard KU!)

My cable use to go out when it was WINDY out, maybe DBS should fight back with the song "Blowing in the Wind" :lol:


----------



## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *
> 
> Maybe Time Warner in your area.. But Time Warner in my area has most of the channels in digital.
> ...


Why is it the posts that seem to be inline with the BS from the cable companies are never registered posters?

1) What area does Time Warner have most channels in digital??? Definately not my area.

2) I have a Multi-Dish setup and the loss of signal only comes when as TNGTony puts it "there is a hell of a storm" My Satellite dish is a better predictor of bad storms than my lame news channels or even a pet.


----------



## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

I have both cable and satellite. I lose my cable signal far more often than I lose my satellite signal and that would even include any hiccups I have with my Dishplayer.

Just shows that they are scared, very scared.

BTW notice I live in South Florida - the lightining capital of the world. During the summer we have huge thunderstorms build every afternoon over the Everglades which I live only a couple of miles away from. I probably lost my signal 3-4 times last summer, each time lasting an average of 20 minutes.


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Raj..

What area is that? I'll bet you a MILLLLion dollars you're mistaken (or trolling..) and multi-slot dishes actually provide a BETTER signal than single dishes because they are slightly larger.

See ya
Tony


----------



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Err Tony I hate to disagree with you but you signal would be better off on seperate dishes then on a multi-slot dish.

From what I understand the focus is off just a bit on a multi-slot dish while on a stand alone dish the focus is dead on.

I have been told that in a heavy rain a multi slot dish would loose signal before a stand alone dish.

With that said my satellite has been a hell of a lot more stable then my cable company. Any outtages I have had on satellite have lasted minutes, while on cable the outtage was hours (and on one case almost 2 days)


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *
> 
> That's not entirely true. With some dishes like multi sat dishes you have rain fade alot more often. *


I'm with the other posters - I only loose satellite when you should be in the storm celler - And I'm using a Dish500 !!

If individual dishes are even better - I'd NEVER lose service !


----------



## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by gcutler _
> *Why is it the posts that seem to be inline with the BS from the cable companies are never registered posters?
> *


I *am* a registered poster, but because I am not currently subscribing to DBS I only post in this forum when you guys start whining about cable. Again. I used to have 15 to 20 minute outages fairly frequently in St. Louis, usually 5 to 10 minutes before the rain got there. Good early warning system. Seldom needed to take shelter with Auntie Em during these outages however. We also had outages with fairly heavy snowfall. In 13 months I have not had a weather related outage. Our only outages have been for upgrades, and when some drunk hit a telephone pole. While it is true that not all my channels are digital, with my digital boxes most of the analog channels are virtually as good as the digital. As with DBS, what makes more difference to the quality of the picture is the signal provided by the source.

You may now resume your regularly scheduled whining. :lol:


----------



## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

raj2001, I live in Oregon where it rains a LOT. I have lost my sat signal 1 time for a total of about 20 seconds over the last 5 years. Let's see your digital cable match that.


----------



## Jasonbp (Jun 17, 2002)

Where my parents and I lived before we had Cablevision. It would rain, the cable would go out. The wind would blow (above 10MPH), it would go out. Or it would just go out because it thought it would. One time we didn't have cable for two weeks before they fixed it. After that two week thing we went with DirecTV. 

Now with DirecTV, I have had three times where I lost the picture. Those were bad storms though. The other two times was because the power went out, so I can't say anything there. Have had about 18 times where the picture would freeze. About 90% of those were from the snow (the others were rain). I would let it build up on the dish before I would knock it down. I am lazy. Over all the I am much better off with DirecTV than cable. So is my wife.


----------



## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

raj2001, I live in Oregon where it rains a LOT. I have lost my sat signal 1 time for a total of about 20 seconds over the last 5 years. Let's see your digital cable match that.


----------



## mattb (Apr 29, 2002)

Im not saying Dish is better than cable everywehre but here in Columbus Ohio Insight's Digital offering stinks... They claim like 200 channels, but you truely dont get that in digital..

The first 70 are analog only.. (which is costing me 33.98 a month) 

The digital offering:
They charge 

7.95 is the basic digital charge (for box/remote yada yada onscreen guide etc that lets you receive access to digital 45 digital music choice channels , pay per view options and the options to order digital movie channels /preminums)


Family Pak $5.00 a month (on top the 7.95)

375 DISCOVERY KIDS
376 THE SCIENCE CHANNEL
377 DISCOVERY CIVILIZATION
378 INTERNATIONAL CHANNEL
379 HISTORY CH INT'L
380 BIOGRAPHY
381 NICK GAMES AND SPORTS
382 GOOD LIFE TV
383 THE WORD
384 TRINITY BROADCASTING
385 NICK TOO EAST
386 NOGGIN
387 GAME SHOW NETWORK
388 BBC AMERICA
389 EWTN
390 INSPIRATIONAL LIFE
391 TOON DISNEY
392 NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC
393 VH1 CLASSIC ROCK
394 VH1 SOUL
395 VH1 COUNTRY

Sports & Leisure Pak - $5.00 a month ontop of digital 7.95 fee.

475 G-4
476 ESPNEWS
477 FOX SPORTS WORLD
478 OUTDOOR CHANNEL
479 HEALTH NETWORK
480 BLOOMBERG
481 DISCOVERY HEALTH
482 DISCOVERY WINGS
483 SOAPNET
484 DISCOVERY HOME & LEISURE
485 techtv
486 STYLE
487 CSPAN - 3
488 ESPN CLASSIC
489 FOX DIGI ATLANTIC
490 FOX DIGI CENTRAL
491 FOX DIGI PACIFIC
492 MTV2
493 MTVS
494 MTV JAMS
495 MUCH MUSIC

That's their digital tier.. They sell those in two packs

if i added that up, thats roughly 52.00$ for their "digital offering" (not including any premimiums)

Thats for roughly 104 channels counting analog, the two family packs including locals and the barker channels..

NOW Tell me how that beats my AT150 on E* which retails for 40.99 a month (sure that doesnt include locals but E* doesnt offer me locals)

PLUS.. Those are all digital, all 150 are digital, unlike insight.. the first 70 or so are analog only..


While some cable divisons may offer a better digital offering, I still think E* is better for me in my area.


----------



## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mattb _
> *
> PLUS.. Those are all digital, all 150 are digital, unlike insight.. the first 70 or so are analog only..
> 
> While some cable divisons may offer a better digital offering, I still think E* is better for me in my area. *


So those 150 are all 100% digital from the source to your TV? No analog at any point in the chain on any of those channels? Not just digital from E* transmitter to the satellite and then to your receiver? Do you have a digital TV that reads every one of those channels digitally?

We put a whole lot of emphasis on "digital" these days. DBS companies have not been spotless in their advertising of what a "digital" experience truly is either. For the great majority of televisions in this nation, a really good analog signal can be just as good or better than a digital signal. Mostly because at this point, most of them are analog somewhere along the line anyway. I don't worry about how many channels are digital. I just look at what kind of signal is being delivered.

Your last sentence is the one that truly matters. Right now E* is better for you in your area. Where I last lived, with a choice between DBS or what I could get on OTA, Primestar and then DirecTV were great. DirecTV still would be. But now I am living in an area where the cable service is great, and I have a package for TV, phone, and internet that makes it well worth my while to go with Cox for everything. If I received the kind of service you guys complain about, I would reconsider. The point is, neither format is intrinsically good or evil. Like most other goods in this country, the consumer has a choice to make. Thank goodness for that, or none of us would be happy. Remember, competition is good. And right now cable is competing like crazy with DBS. You should all be happy for that.


----------



## Timco (Jun 7, 2002)

I think it is great that cable is running ads against DBS. It means that DBS is breathing down the necks of cable and they are getting worried. Competition is good! Cable has come a long way because of DBS and competition is making it better.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

DirecTV is running a commercial where basically, the DirecTV guy gives the details about his service. The guy asks if it was possible to mount the dish on the back of the house. DirecTV guy goes, "Yes", then thinks, then says, "You work for the cable company, don't you?"


----------



## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

I disagree with the multi-slot dish losing signal more. I went to a DirecTV Plus dish for NASA and even though the signal strength meter is 2-3 point lower it seems to go down slower in rain. I lose the signal less now than ever. Although it's never been more then a 5-10 min in a nasty t-storm anyway.

I can't even remember the last time I experienced fade.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TNGTony _
> Raj..
> 
> What area is that?


Time Warner NYC. Time Warner in some other parts of New York State is the same, or even better. Some other Time Warner systems are worse, admittedly.



> I'll bet you a MILLLLion dollars you're mistaken (or trolling..)


Well, it seems you are now out a million dollars. I had their service and MOST of the channels were digital. The only ones that were not were locals, C-SPAN, public access, TBS and Nick. The combined cost of broadband internet +TV was alot less than what I am paying now for DirecTV and DSL. I also don't get as many premiums as I did before, and I don't get Dolby Digital 5.1 on as many channels as I used to get before.

The only upside is that I have a kick ass dual tuner PVR.



> and multi-slot dishes actually provide a BETTER signal than single dishes because they are slightly larger.


Multi sat dishes are a compromise. I have seen both multi sat and single dishes in operation, both professionally installed. I have a single dish DirecTV system and I get more signal than my neighbor who has Para Todos with his multi sat dish.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by gcutler _
> Why is it the posts that seem to be inline with the BS from the cable companies are never registered posters?


Hey, I'm sorry for not registering yet. I think I will, though. But if you are in doubt of my credibility, I am a regular contributor to AVSForum. However, I am definitely not as blindly anti-cable as some of you guys are, so don't fault me for being that way.



> 1) What area does Time Warner have most channels in digital??? Definately not my area.


Time Warner NYC. http://www.twcnyc.com



> 2) I have a Multi-Dish setup and the loss of signal only comes when as TNGTony puts it "there is a hell of a storm" My Satellite dish is a better predictor of bad storms than my lame news channels or even a pet.


I have a single dish DirecTV system, with my signals on both tuners on my living room PVR and my single tuner in my bedroom in the high 90's on all CONUS transponders. Whenever anything more than a small drizzle occurs, the picture begins to freeze on some channels. When the rain gets heavier, I lose channels. When the rain is pouring, I lose everything.

My 18 inch dish was professionally installed and aligned and peaked using a signal meter. I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup.

Don't get me wrong, in some areas, cable just plain stinks. But I believe some of you are just plain anti cable, despite the many improvements many cable systems are making all over the country. The fact remains that cable companies are capable of a hell of alot more than DBS, but alot of cable co's are simply too lazy to implement the technology.

So I wouldn't call "singing in the rain" a disinformation campaign. I am a DBS user and I can tell you that I do lose my signal during the rain.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DarrellP _
> *raj2001, I live in Oregon where it rains a LOT. I have lost my sat signal 1 time for a total of about 20 seconds over the last 5 years. Let's see your digital cable match that. *


For the year and a half I have lived in Manhattan, I have never had a cable outage, except when locals went out on 9-11. My cable modem service went out once or twice, but it was planned maintenance which was pre-announced so that didn't count anyway.

Since I have moved and gotten DirecTV, I have lost my signal about four times already. I have a single dish with signals always in the high 90's on all transponders, except on the spots that I am not supposed to get anyway.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I agree with what Raj is saying. Hard to believe that I am not anti cable eaither. 

There are certain things cable CAN do that satellite will NEVER be able to do, such as local broadcast channels in HD, Real High Speed Internet, Telephone service....

The question is when will cable get their head out of their ___ and upgrade their system to handle such services.

BTW Rain fade is also a problem of where you live, if you live in the middle of America chances are you may never see rain fade but if your high on the northeast you are more likely to get rain fade.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mattb _
> *Im not saying Dish is better than cable everywehre but here in Columbus Ohio Insight's Digital offering stinks... They claim like 200 channels, but you truely dont get that in digital..
> 
> The first 70 are analog only.. (which is costing me 33.98 a month)
> ...


I had Time Warner NYC digital with all premiums plus road runner (It's all here package) and it cost me $116+tax+cable box rental = $125 per month total. I have DirecTV plus DSL and it cost me over $160 per month.

Not to mention that I need a landline phone with DirecTV which is another $50 per month, AND I had to buy my own equipment AND stick with a one year contract AND pay extra for my locals. I also have the DirecTV protection plan maintenance contract, a service which I get free with cable.

I also have fewer movie channels, less Dolby Digital, and I need to go ontop my (landlord's) roof and change my dish and buy yet more expensive equipment to get HDTV. The last time an installer was on top the roof he nearly fell. Imagine if he had actually fallen and wanted to sue me.

With Time Warner cable they just send over an installer and swap the box and it costs me nothing.


----------



## Reverend Ike (Oct 23, 2002)

Nice apples and oranges comparison, Raj. And nobody should be on anybody's roof without insurance coverage. That's just stupid.

I had cable from Day 1 until about 15 months ago when I moved and got Dish. The last five years I had cable, it seemed like the outages became more frequent, not less. I lived within a mile of the cable company, but if there was a 30-minute local power outage, it would usually be hours before my cable service was restored. Plus there were wind-caused outages, and other outages that I never knew the cause.

My only problem with DBS was caused by the dish not being secured properly by the initial installer, making it overly sensitive to wind and rain. A simple diagnosis and fix and it has been fine ever since. Overall, the outages during my first 15 months of DBS were far fewer than my last 15 months of cable.

The mainstream packages (Dish's AT 150 and DTV's Total Choice Plus) offer channels that were either not available on cable or required purchases of additional tiers, which was particularly irritating. Cable tiers usually consisted of one desirable channel, plus a half-dozen that I'd never watch, with demographics across the spectrum, which I'm sure was intentional. Not to mention that cable rates increased at several times the rate of inflation year after year.

I'm sure there are lots of people who (like me until few years ago) haven't even considered DBS because of a fear of the unknown. But as more average folks find their friends or family members getting DBS, and they get more informed about the pros and cons, I believe a large number will choose to make the switch from cable to DBS.


----------



## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well I am a DBS subscriber and I had a lot of rain fade problems until I fixed up my installation with dedicated dishes (2-24" and one 36") now I do not have rain fade problems. The local cable company (Time Warner) offers:

http://www.twcablewf.com/prods_wf/wf_prods_lineup_loc.htm

190 channels of which the first 70 or so are in analog. Note though that they offer more of the premium nets than Dish/DirectTV.

Why am I on DBS? Well the main reason is that Dish is about $40/month less than cable. $40/month is a lot of cash.

Quite frankly if cable were to go HDTV and the price difference were to shrink (i.e. dish raise prices a lot), I would switch back to cable in a heartbeat.

Quite frankly if you have a properly wired house, I think you would be surprised at how good cable will look. The main problems cable suffers from is that old wires and a ton of splitters go through the house and DBS is all fresh wiring on higher quality cable.

Time Warner upgraded the town about 5 years ago to all fiber. So, essentially the "analog" stations are actually digital over fiber to each neighborhood.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

My local cable company still does not offer an intergrated STB with PVR. Both Dish and DirecTV have those.

And, with the recent launch of E*8, the Sacramento area stations (wtih the exception of Univision 19) are now on a Spotbeam. When I last looked, the signal strength was at 125. It would not surprise me if, on the spot beams, Dish has turned down the Error Correction to improve picture quality.


----------



## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *BTW Rain fade is also a problem of where you live, if you live in the middle of America chances are you may never see rain fade but if your high on the northeast you are more likely to get rain fade.  *


I live in torrential rain (low on the South East) Georgia. Where almost every afternoon there is a massive thunderstorm. And it had been raining almost straight for 2 weeks. And still the outages were less than when I had cable 4-12 years ago. Now granted upgrades probably have made the system more stable, but cable is still less stable than DBS in my area.


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2002)

Reverend Ike Said:


> Nice apples and oranges comparison, Raj. And nobody should be on anybody's roof without insurance coverage. That's just stupid.


I don't exactly see what you are referring to as apples to oranges. If it was my pricing for DBS and broadband combined, I still come out better with cable for TV only, if I subscribe to premiums.

And I view my premiums as a very important part of my TV life. Time Warner's "d ultimate" - equal to DirecTV's total choice premier or Echostar's America's everything pak - package is $79.81. Total Choice Premier is $85.99 (with locals), and DISH is $78.80 with locals. But, I still have to buy equipment, install one or two dishes, and possibly pay more for a service plan if I want service beyond the manufacturer's warranty. I'd also still have a one year contract with serious penalties if I quit early. Now, if I remember correctly, Charlie was touting broadband as a very important part of this merger. So my broadband price comparison may not be so bad after all...



> The mainstream packages (Dish's AT 150 and DTV's Total Choice Plus) offer channels that were either not available on cable or required purchases of additional tiers, which was particularly irritating.


There are only three tiers in Time Warner NYC's non premium packages - digital, analog and basic. Since they are converting everyone to digital, all that's going to be left is digital and basic.



> I lived within a mile of the cable company, but if there was a 30-minute local power outage, it would usually be hours before my cable service was restored. Plus there were wind-caused outages, and other outages that I never knew the cause.


As I said, in some parts of the country, cable sucks bigtime. But over here, it doesn't. Not to mention that in New York city a power outage is very rare unless you live in some area like South Bronx or Flatbush in B'klyn.

From Z'loth


> My local cable company still does not offer an intergrated STB with PVR. Both Dish and DirecTV have those.


This is the one thing that's tempting me to stick with DirecTV, even when full digital cable is available here. I saw the guys installing the new equipment on the pole this morning though...

Please understand that I am not anti DBS or an apologist for cable. I am simply trying to be fair.


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Raj, Unhook the cable from the converter box and plug it right in to a regular cable ready TV. 70-80 or so of those channels will be visible on the TV without the box. Those are analog channels. No matter how much some one tells you their's digital, they're not.

A Dish 500 multi-slot dish ON AVERAGE gives people 5 point added signal strength when properly alligned.

See ya
Tony

See ya
Tony


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Raj: I don't "own" my own equipment, I lease it from Dish under the Digital Home Plan. This adds a few dollars to my bill, 

And, quite frankly, if you find that cable is a better value than DBS, then by all means go with cable. Some of us ran away from cable due to service (or lack thereof), or we wanted particular channels that are simply not offerred in our local package.


----------



## Brian Rector (Mar 25, 2002)

Cable wont upgrade unless more competition and more scaring from DBS. Time Warner may be getting into the "TIVO"- like STBs, but it will be a long time before all systems get upgraded. Cable sees TIVO as a threat because it causes lower revenue from VOD. Afterall, people would rather record 'Friends' with a TIVO rather than to record via VOD and also having to pay a charge just to record/play the show (and the show would only be available for 24 hours with VOD).


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TNGTony _
> Raj, Unhook the cable from the converter box and plug it right in to a regular cable ready TV. 70-80 or so of those channels will be visible on the TV without the box. Those are analog channels. No matter how much some one tells you their's digital, they're not.


Tony, trust me. I have done that a million times over. First off, on the analog side, everything besides locals, C-SPAN, TV Guide and public access are scrambled.

Secondly, I am pretty certain that nearly everything on the digital package is digital. There are a couple good indications of this -

When I remove the cable when most channels are tuned, the picture pixellates and freezes.

When I tune to most channels, the picture freezes for a second and then begins moving, just like DBS.

Audio for the analog channels are not sent through the SPDIF out on Scientific Atlanta Explorer series boxes. The audio for MOST of my channels came through the SPDIF out. Regular channels were in DD 2.0, except some that were MPEG audio converted to PCM at the receiver (SoapNet, TechTV and BBCA I think) and every single one of my premiums were in DD5.1, when 5.1 material was broadcast.

Therefore there is my evidence that TWCNYC is sending almost everything digitally.



> A Dish 500 multi-slot dish ON AVERAGE gives people 5 point added signal strength when properly alligned.


The only thing that can stop rain fade in the worst weather is an extremely large (1 meter) dish.


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Z'Loth _
> *Raj: I don't "own" my own equipment, I lease it from Dish under the Digital Home Plan. This adds a few dollars to my bill,
> 
> And, quite frankly, if you find that cable is a better value than DBS, then by all means go with cable. Some of us ran away from cable due to service (or lack thereof), or we wanted particular channels that are simply not offerred in our local package. *


AS I said, I agree that cable sucks totally in some areas, and satellite is a better option.

However, some people have a mindset against all cable and go around this forum preaching to everyone that cable is the evil dictator. All I am saying is that it's not that way everywhere.


----------

