# Too Low on Horizon for 129 to work



## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

I had a tech come out today and was suppose to bring a Dish 1000 to replace a Dish500 I had. I am updating from a old 625 to the 622 receiver and need the 129 satellite.

He was looking at 61.5 and I told him as he could see, that there is a TON of trees that way, and that the 110 and 119 are working fine, and there is a clear view of the sky that way.

I get a call later in the afternoon wanting to know if the tech had come by, and I told her yes, he was here a VERY short time, since he didn't bring the right dish with him that was requested. Then she goes on to tell me that that don't put Dish 1000s up, (which sounded kind of fishy)

My Zip is 20110 about 20 miles South-West of Washington D.C.

Is this going to be too low on the horizon to see the bird, and I might have to get them to put a 61.5 at the other end of the house.

Only bad thing about this is at one time I had a satellite pointed at 61.5, but pulled the coax out (well had someone do it, as I am in a chair) and they would have to run it back into the attic (of which there is a hole out there, but know they are not going to get up there) 

This guy that came out could barely speak English, and had no idea of how to even read the work order, so I doubt he will be able to help much.

So, they are suppose to come back out on Friday morning, any ideas out there, and as to how far I should push them to doing work. 
Maybe get them to install a dish at 61.5 and hook it up temporarily with a coax, and leave me enough Coax and I will get someone to run it if in fact it can see the 61.5 bird


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

jfischer said:


> I had a tech come out today and was suppose to bring a Dish 1000 to replace a Dish500 I had. I am updating from a old 625 to the 622 receiver and need the 129 satellite.
> 
> He was looking at 61.5 and I told him as he could see, that there is a TON of trees that way, and that the 110 and 119 are working fine, and there is a clear view of the sky that way.
> 
> ...


The 61.5 is only about 20 to 25 degrees E of S for you. It should be about 47 degrees above the horizon on a prime focus dish which shoud be around 25 degrees above the horizon for a dish 300. So unless the trees are very close to the house you have a good chance of getting a good shot at the bird. Try to get a different installer to come out since things didn't work well between the 2 of you on his 1st trip. Just request some else and tell them the two of you had trouble understaning each other.


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

Trees are pretty close, within 100 foot and are over 100 foot tall, and some of the others are not on my property. I have had all the ones cut that are in the way of the 129, why I thought it might be easier to find it.

I did tell the lady that called me from the local place looking for her tech that it might be better if she sent someone else out next time, to try again, as the guy they sent out about 2 years ago was great at things and worked with me.

I will keep you informed of the progress and if they get a view of the bird from either.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

In 20110, the 61.5° satellite is 42° elevation (doesn't matter what dish you use) and you wouldn't clear the top of a 100' tree if it was 100' away.

Manassas VA 20110 38.7478 77.4853 
Latitude: 38.7478°N
Longitude: 77.4853°W

Satellite: 61.5°W
Azimuth: 155.4°
Elevation: 42.1°

and for 129, only 21° elevation
Satellite: 129.0°W
Azimuth: 243.5°
Elevation: 20.9°

A LNB arm will point down toward the ground to get 21 elevation, but the elevation from the horizon remains 20.9°. At 100' away, any tree would need to be no higher than about 36' above the dish to get 129°. 61.5 is a very different bearing and requires two dishes, but the 42.1° elevation makes it much more likely if you have tree obstructions. 

FWIW, the DC digital locals are on 61.5° if Manassas is in the DC DMA.

P.S. Az values are True north, not magnetic.


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

The 61.5° Dish might work, but I have my doubts, as I did have one on that bird years ago (in another location on the house), but the trees have grown up a lot in that direction, why I wanted to go the 129° route.

In the 129° view The dish is up 2 stories, and I have no trees even in the fullest leaf time of the year that would be any closer then about 150 foot if that, as I have cut everything down in that direction, so I hope he will find a Dish 1000 like I requested the first time so all can go on the one dish, if not maybe leave the Dish 500 that is up there now, and add one for the 129° and it will be able to pick up a good enough signal.

I will know after Friday I guess and see how much the tech really wants to work on getting things right. That is the problem of knowing what you want, but not being able to get up there and doing it.

I was not worried about the Locals on 61.5° as I have a 60 foot tower with an antenna on it that I am getting about 42 different digitals off of (many dupes in the PBS) but all the major networks, so didn't worry about having one on there, and was more concerned about the HD stuff off the 120° bird.


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

If you find out you can clear the trees, I'd prefer the 61.5 myself. The 129 bird is so low on the horizon here in the mid-atlantic region that you'll have a lot more rain fade with 129 because you are shooting through a lot more atmosphere. Plus, I personally feel like the 3 bird dishes just don't work as well. They are more difficult to align than a 2 and a 1 on separate dishes and installers often get less signal when they have to align to three satellites.

My .02

Mike


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

Here is more on how the saga goes. On Friday the Dish Tech shows up. He says oh, you can't get the 61.5 Dish to work. (Dish had on the order the exact same thing that was on it before, nothing changed.)

I told him I knew that, and why when I had talked to the Dish Tech on the phone he said to get you to try mounting the Dish 1000 (of which he didn't bring out, or one that could work on 129) that day.

SO, I called Dish and got another day scheduled for Monday.

Lets see what, or who they send out then.

Oh, the last guy they sent out did tell me that they didn't use 129 anymore and was using 118. I don't know where he was coming from, as I told him everything I could find outtold me that most of the HD channels of which I am trying to get are either on 61.5 or 129. Then he changes the tune and says, well you should try a Dish with 3 LNBs on it, and I said, isn't that what the Dish 1000 of which I have told 4 different people I have talked on the phone, or in person to bring out.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

jfischer said:


> Here is more on how the saga goes. On Friday the Dish Tech shows up. He says oh, you can't get the 61.5 Dish to work. (Dish had on the order the exact same thing that was on it before, nothing changed.)
> 
> I told him I knew that, and why when I had talked to the Dish Tech on the phone he said to get you to try mounting the Dish 1000 (of which he didn't bring out, or one that could work on 129) that day.
> 
> ...


The guy that told you they are using 118.5 and then said needed to use the D 1000 must be ID 10 T certified installer. He must not have a clue as to which sats he is pointing to on the D1000. As far as someone saying that the 129 bird won't work as well because there is more atmosphere between it and you than the 61.5 they son't understand that when there is a line drawn between the 2 different birds that the distance to them will be only a small amount. The only difference would be angular not the distance.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

whatchel1 said:


> As far as someone saying that the 129 bird won't work as well because there is more atmosphere between it and you than the 61.5 they son't understand that when there is a line drawn between the 2 different birds that the distance to them will be only a small amount. The only difference would be angular not the distance.


Hey whatchel1, how goes it.

The closer the satellite is to the horizon, the more atmosphere the signal must pass through. Straight up is the shortest distance to space, at the horizon it is much farther out of the atmosphere, might be a problem, especially with rain fade.


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

More updates on what is happening with the install of a dish to try to get the HD channels.

Well, after the last week and 2 of the local guys (which were pretty much clueless coming by) I call Dish today to make sure they have the scheduled date for Monday still set up. (Good thing I did, as there was none)

I went through 4, get that 4 different people and didn't want to do it, but had to go through the same info to each, which means I can see my credit card now getting screwed with all kinds of charges on it.

The last lady set the order up for the tech to bring a DISH 1000 out when he comes and to aim at the 129, as the last guy says the 61.5 can't be in clear view. I am about to move the dish to the ground, and move it further in the front of the house, and bury some cable, if worse comes to worse here. It would only be about 21 degrees on the 129 dish, and I just don't think it is going to clear the neighbors trees, as that would only be about a 39 foot tree, and I am pretty sure some of them are going to get in the way.

SO, I am now waiting until Wed. gets here to see what the next one tells me, or doesn't tell me. (odds say he won't even have the right dish, or the updated order that was made today)

Now they wonder why people steal signals out of the air :nono2:


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

Results for today, Monday.

I get a call today, from the people that are suppose to install the 129 Dish for me. They inform me that they don't install a Dish 1000 in my area. I told them that was kind of funny since I have seen them all over town. 
They go about telling me that they must have been installed by a Retail installer. I ask them what the heck they are, since Dish Network is sending them out to install things, and they went duh. (this is all after talking to 3 people at that company.)

Well, Dish is on the phone and I told them that I have played around enough with their idiots they are sending out, and to refund the money they have charged to my card for the 622 receiver of which I have never seen.

I went out and did a servey and have determined if I put a pole about 35 foot in front of my house I can get a 61.5 in clear site, so this should make them happy, and let them be able to install things, since all they will do as an installer is drill one hole and 120' of coax put ends on and connect and align dish, no real work, or install things in a order that makes it clean, or work. I guess they just want the gravy work.

I will go by the local place tomorrow that installs for Dish and see if I can get the cable and bury it for them, install the pole for them to mount it on, then set a date up for next week for them to come and put the dish on the pole, align it, and give me the receiver.
Basically I am doing all the work for them and still getting charged for it. I think this is a heck of a way for a company to do business.

I did find some more info and why half the ones you talk to when you call Dish don't speak English, or understand what the heck you are talking about when you tell them a location, is because you are talking to someone in another country, whether it be India, or some other country, then after about 3 people and you having to get pissed off, they say you want to talk to my supervisor, and then you talk to someone that speaks English, and you are talking to someone in the good ole US of A.

If Dish didn't have more then local cable, or Direct for the money I would ditch them, but will see what my visit to the local Dish installer does tomorrow.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Sorry, about all the problems you're having with getting an installation. I hope it all turns out OK in the end. I'm sure that you will enjoy the 622 as I do.


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## jfischer (Oct 9, 2006)

Let me start out by filling all in.

On Tuesday I had enough and decided I would go by the local company that had been sending the people out that were clueless about my installs.
I went in and there was the supervisor there and couldn't have been a nicer person. It was pouring rain, and he said he would come out to my house to do a survey himself, right then and would just follow me to the house.

He said there is no reason the other guys couldn't have installed a dish.

He said he would be out on Wed. between 2-3, and low and behold he was here right at 2, with two other techs. They installed the dish out on a pole, dug the hole, concrete, buried the cable, changed the Dish 500 LNB to the + and installed the 61.5 on the pole for me. Signal was a 95+ even 110 on some. 

I now have the 622 in and so far am very happy. I put it on some rubber feet, that are about 1" tall to get it off what it is setting on, as the 625 was always hot, and so is this one, hope this will help with the heat problems.

Only thing that is a let down is the HDMI cable not sending the 5.1 signal and having to use a Toslink fiber cable. Other then that I am pretty darn happy.

Will keep all informed as I find bugs out.

Oh, I have also heard there are a few new receivers coming out in about 3 months from a good source, guess I will have to be happy with this one for a while.


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