# Senate Passes DTV Nightlight Bill



## kocuba

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6616487.html



> A DTV nighlight bill, which would allow broadcasters to continue an analog signal for 30 days past the Feb. 17, 2009 cut-off date, passed the Senate by unanimous consent Thursday, according to the office of its sponsor, Sen. Jay Rockefeller.....


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## Nick

Here we go again!


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## phox_mulder

kocuba said:


> http://http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6616487.html


A few too many HTTP's in your link.

You think the DTV crap is a pain for the viewers, try being in the TV industry.

90 days till the Analog Shutoff, 89 days till the Analog Shutoff, 88 days . . . .

Keeping track of how many times we run the PSA's, how many times we run the ticker, how many time we run the super.
Changing the 90 to 89 to 88 for 5 different stations in 2 different time zones.

Not to mention explaining it to the intellectually lacking because they know I work at a TV station.
HD is DT but DT isn't necessarily HD. . .

At least we've gotten approval to shut down 3 of them early, December 1st to be exact.

phox


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## Lee L

Instead of just going dark, I would be in OK with them running some card saying the DTV transition has occured - please get a box to continue watching, or maybe even a card on most of the screen with a small PIP type box showing the program along with the audio just to ensure no one misses out of a tornado warning or something, but running the actual channel just like before will accomplish nothing at all.


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## Stuart Sweet

Oh joy. I'm not sure what 30 more days will accomplish.


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## FTA Michael

Call me crazy, but I like this idea. If, after the shutoff, stations _may_ broadcast nothing but DTV switchover info and emergency info for 30 days max, that sounds smart. If Mr. Clueless turns on his set and sees nothing but "go get a converter box now" on his old channels, maybe he'll finally get the idea. It's better than him turning on his set, seeing nothing but static, and calling the TV stations.


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## Mark Holtz

If you are going to do that, you will need to transmit it in English, Spanish, French, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Klingon.


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## BillRadio

This certainly won't help those stations who will need to turn off their analog signal ("cut over") on 2/17/09 to be able to begin using their digital signal on their (old) ultimate VHF channel.

i see a bigger problem in the DTV switchover with the need to "rescan" all the digital TV's and converters. Unless viewers know to rescan, these cutover stations will just disappear, and with no analog signal available, viewers won't know what to do without asking someone. I had hoped the PSIP would address this, but I am told otherwise.


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## scooper

I think it is a dumb idea. Get it over with on Feb 17/18. 

Probably the areas that stations are moving should broadcast a message that "Now you need to have your digital tuner rescan for channels on cutoff" - or something to that effect.


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## HIPAR

If you want to read the proposed law (it's boring) :

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2008_record&page=S10758&position=all :nono2:

--- CHAS


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## n3ntj

kocuba said:


> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6616487.html


Dumb. Just turn'em off on Feb 17th. If you don't know analog is going away, you must be living in a cave. I hope it fails in the House.


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## Davenlr

OK, in our market ABC ch 7 analog is using ch22 digital. On cutover day, PBS analog ch 2 is moving their digital ch 5 to ch 7. So, if ABC stays on ch 7 analog for 30 more days, we will have an analog and digital on the same channel. God the government people are idiots.


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## Jim5506

I hope the PBS station switches and kills the ABC analog feed.

Has this been passed by both houses and signed by W?


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## scooper

Obviously it isn't going to work with a situation like that. It's also not going to work where a station is moving it's digital to it's old analog assignment.

Here in Raleigh -Durham-Fayetteville - 4,5,22,47 and 50 could do this, but 11,17,and 28 are going to their old analog frequency.


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## harsh

FTA Michael said:


> If Mr. Clueless turns on his set and sees nothing but "go get a converter box now" on his old channels, maybe he'll finally get the idea.


As long as Mr. Clueless is coddled, he will not seek the truth. Cut him off and he'll start looking for clues pretty quickly.


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## wilbur_the_goose

Wasn't one of the goals of the shutoff the re-auctioning of the SD spectrum so the Gov't could make more money? 

SHUT THEM OFF! We need the funds!


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## n3ntj

If you don't know of the analog shutoff by now, what is 1 more month going to buy you? Cut the crap and stick with the original Feb date. All we need is more confusion that the shutoff now isn't going to happen on that Feb date.


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## Msguy

This is Dumb. Why set a cutoff date of February 17th 2009 only to extend it into March 2009? This is a bad move. What are they going to do at the end of The Extension? Ask for 15 days more? No This February 17th Digital Conversion Cutoff date needs to stick in my opinion. People have had an ample amount of time to either buy a new TV or get a conversion box. My Local Wal-Mart has been carrying the Conversion Boxes with a sign saying February 17th 2009 is coming and they even have a countdown clock above the sign and the Conversion Box Display.


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## Kansas Zephyr

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Wasn't one of the goals of the shutoff the re-auctioning of the SD spectrum so the Gov't could make more money?
> 
> SHUT THEM OFF! We need the funds!


No, the "SD spectrum" isn't going away. Because, the same RF channels used for analog are also for digital.

What is going away, are RF channels 52-69, that's all. 2-51 are still for OTA TV.

All TV stations are leaving that window (>=52), either analog or digital.

..and the auction is already over.


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## dishlover2

n3ntj said:


> Dumb. Just turn'em off on Feb 17th. If you don't know analog is going away, you must be living in a cave. I hope it fails in the House.


Whp are you able to recieve in your part of s central pa I Have no such luck here in eastern lancaster:nono:


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## FTA Michael

C'mon, we're not talking about really extending analog programming. We're just talking about a _short_ bit of time to use analog as a signpost.

Consider:

* A certain small, shrinking percentage of viewers doesn't get it. Can't figure it out. Thinks it won't affect them. There's always somebody...
* These people will wake up that February morning and turn on the Today Show (or whatever).
* If they see static, a fair number of them will call the TV stations, joining the throng of viewers who used to get a decent analog picture but now can't quite get enough digital signal to work.
* But if they see a looping video that tells them that what's going on, a lot of the folks who would have called the TV stations will drive down to Wal-Mart instead.

I don't think it'll take a month. I figure that one week ought to be enough. And if that one week would keep a few thousand phone calls from swamping TV stations, I think it would be worth it.


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## Stuart Sweet

I don't know if other markets are like Los Angeles but I cannot imagine being ignorant of the issue given that there is at least one message about the switch in every half hour on every broadcast station.


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## scooper

The only people who shouldn't know about the transition by now *DON'T WATCH TV AT ALL !*

Shut all the analog down on time ! (or before... but I'm not going tell a station owner how to run his business beyond the DTV transition happening on time)


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## kevinwmsn

I hope they shut it down on schedule. 30 days doesn't buy anything.


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## Mark Holtz

scooper said:


> but I'm not going tell a station owner how to run his business beyond the DTV transition happening on time


You obviously haven't been in a market where the local station owners is demanding a king's ransom for his station to be carried on cable and/or satellite.


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## Lee L

scooper, you make good points. I had totally forgotten about the stations going back to teh analog frequencies, so there is no way this will work for them.


As far as the transition education goes, I have a friend that is pretty on top of things (but is only just now getting HD) and he thought, based on all the recent commercials, that all over the air broadcasting was going away in Feb and that antennas would be useless after that point. SO, I can imagine there are still people with their head blissfully in the sand.


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## scooper

Mark Holtz said:


> You obviously haven't been in a market where the local station owners is demanding a king's ransom for his station to be carried on cable and/or satellite.


I really don't care if mine do or not, since I get them OTA.


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## n3ntj

FTA Michael said:


> C'mon, we're not talking about really extending analog programming. We're just talking about a _short_ bit of time to use analog as a signpost.
> 
> Consider:
> 
> * A certain small, shrinking percentage of viewers doesn't get it. Can't figure it out. Thinks it won't affect them. There's always somebody...
> * These people will wake up that February morning and turn on the Today Show (or whatever).
> * If they see static, a fair number of them will call the TV stations, joining the throng of viewers who used to get a decent analog picture but now can't quite get enough digital signal to work.
> * But if they see a looping video that tells them that what's going on, a lot of the folks who would have called the TV stations will drive down to Wal-Mart instead.
> 
> I don't think it'll take a month. I figure that one week ought to be enough. And if that one week would keep a few thousand phone calls from swamping TV stations, I think it would be worth it.


IF they don't know by now, will they ever get it? Everybody's been talking about this for over a year.


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## Tom Robertson

HIPAR said:


> If you want to read the proposed law (it's boring) :
> 
> http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2008_record&page=S10758&position=all :nono2:
> 
> --- CHAS


Thanks, CHAS. I did read it, and glad I did:
1) Analog programming won't be extended. 
2) Only emergency information and information about the transition will be.
3) Channels 52-69 will not be allowed to be extended, preserving the auctioned bandwidth.
4) This can not interfere with the new digital channels.

This is a great way to edjumacate that last group of holdouts without sacrificing anything but a small amount of power to keep the transmitters going an extra month. And I really like the safety concepts for emergency use.

Peace,
Tom


> SEC. 2. COMMISSION ACTION REQUIRED.
> (a) PROGRAM REQUIRED.-Notwithstanding
> any other provision of law, the Federal Communications
> Commission shall, not later
> than January 15, 2009, develop and implement
> a program to encourage and permit, to
> the extent technically feasible and subject to
> such limitations as the Commission finds to
> be consistent with the public interest and
> the requirements of this Act, the broadcasting
> in the analog television service of
> only the public safety information and digital
> transition information specified in subsection
> (b) during the 30-day period beginning
> on the day after the date established by
> law under section 3002(b) of the Digital Television
> Transition and Public Safety Act of
> 2005 for termination of all licenses for fullpower
> television stations in the analog television
> service and the cessation of broadcasting
> by full-power stations in the analog
> television service.
> (b) INFORMATION REQUIRED.-The program
> required by subsection (a) shall provide for
> the broadcast of-
> (1) emergency information, including critical
> details regarding the emergency, as
> broadcast or required to be broadcast by fullpower
> stations in the digital television service;
> (2) information, in both English and Spanish,
> and accessible to persons with disabilities,
> concerning-
> (A) the digital television transition, including
> the fact that a transition has taken
> place and that additional action is required
> to continue receiving television service, including
> emergency notifications; and
> (B) the steps required to enable viewers to
> receive such emergency information via the
> digital television service and to convert to
> receiving digital television service, including
> a phone number and Internet address by
> which help with such transition may be obtained
> in both English and Spanish; and
> (3) such other information related to consumer
> education about the digital television
> transition or public health and safety or
> emergencies as the Commission may find to
> be consistent with the public interest.
> SEC. 3. LIMITATIONS.
> In designing the program required by this
> Act, the Commission shall-
> (1) take into account market-by-market
> needs, based upon factors such as channel
> and transmitter availability;
> (2) ensure that broadcasting of the program
> specified in section 2(b) will not cause
> harmful interference with signals in the digital
> television service;
> (3) not require the analog television service
> signals broadcast under this Act to be retransmitted
> or otherwise carried pursuant to
> section 325(b), 338, 339, 340, 614, or 615 of the
> Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 325(b),
> 338, 339, 340, 614, or 615);
> (4) take into consideration broadcasters'
> digital power levels and transition and coordination
> plans that already have been
> adopted with respect to cable systems and
> satellite carriers' systems;
> (5) prohibit any broadcast of analog television
> service signals under section 2(b) on
> any spectrum that is approved or pending approval
> by the Commission to be used for public
> safety radio services, including television
> channels 14-20; and
> (6) not include the analog spectrum between
> channels 52 and 69, inclusive (between
> frequencies 698 and 806 megahertz, inclusive)
> reclaimed from analog television broadcasting
> pursuant to section 309(j) of the Communications
> Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 309(j)).
> SEC. 4. DEFINITIONS.
> As used in this Act, the term ''emergency
> information'' has the meaning such term has
> under part 79 of the regulations of the Federal
> Communications Commission (47 C.F.R.
> part 79).


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## samhevener

Kansas Zephyr said:


> No, the "SD spectrum" isn't going away. Because, the same RF channels used for analog are also for digital.
> 
> What is going away, are RF channels 52-69, that's all. 2-51 are still for OTA TV.
> 
> All TV stations are leaving that window (>=52), either analog or digital.
> 
> ..and the auction is already over.


I told you I would be back late this winter and we would be talking about a "shutdown" delay in some form. On March the 5th of this year you were willing to bet me $500.00 the shutoff date of Feb 17, 2009 was cut in wool. I was nice to you and didn't take the bet because I knew the date would be extended in some form. This 30 day delay is just a way for Congress to open up the box for much longer delay. I wanted to bet you a converter box coupon but you declined. As I said last spring, Americans resist major change. We could save the tax payers billions of dollars a year if the US would stop printing 1 dollar bills and minting the penny. Americans won't have any part of it because it's a major change. Once they start calling their Congressman about this "shutdown", more bills requesting a delay will be pending in Congress.


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## Kansas Zephyr

We'll see.

Remember this will not impact a large number of stations that are "moving" their digital signal back to the current analog RF channel.

This is to permit an analog transmission to tell people that "the transition has occurred".

So, no 2/17/09 is still the cut-off. This reads, to "encourage and permit...to the extent technically feasible", I didn't see require. This is yet another unreimbursed, unplanned expense to engineer and implement by local stations, in a short time frame.

All normal programming on full power analog stations will cease on 2/18.

You still wouldn't have won the bet with this action. A monetary bet I'm still willing to make, by the way. (I've already used my converter coupons...they do expire in 90 days, ya know.)


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## samhevener

I just had to rib you about the bet. I think I remember that you and several others were saying that Congress had passed the law and their would be NO changes or updates. So much for that. If all the oldtime full power analog stations go off the air on Feb 17th, Congress will mandate some go back on the air for a limited time.


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## scooper

I still doubt that Congress can do anything on this...

It's a waste of time and resources to coddle those non-believers. "Let them watch static" ...


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> I just had to rib you about the bet. I think I remember that you and several others were saying that Congress had passed the law and their would be NO changes or updates. So much for that. If all the oldtime *full power analog stations go off the air on Feb 17th*, Congress will mandate some go back on the air for a limited time.


2/17/09 is the last full day...so by midnight on the 18th full-power analog TV will end.

If any full-power stations are forced to resume "normal program" broadcasting, on analog, after 2/18/09...then yes you'll win. (This would only include stations that had no temporary wavier to continue analog after the cut-off.)

Your contention was that business as usual was going extend well past the 2/18/09 deadline.

This is very correctly being called a "night-light" measure.

I still have my money where my mouth is, care to take the bet?

Remember that most VHF High (7-13) stations will take advantage of the lower operating costs of VHF, versus UHF, and will replace the analog signal with digital, and only switch off the current UHF digital transmitter.

So, for those stations it's impossible to broadcast analog on the "old" channel, since it's been "recycled" with the bandwidth being occupied by the digital broadcast.


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## scooper

Not to mention the stations that are going back to their old UHF freqs as well. IF this measure gets passed - it's only an authorization to provide "the night-light" message - it is NOT a mandate to continue normal ops.


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## TBoneit

Lee L said:


> Instead of just going dark, I would be in OK with them running some card saying the DTV transition has occured - please get a box to continue watching, or maybe even a card on most of the screen with a small PIP type box showing the program along with the audio just to ensure no one misses out of a tornado warning or something, but running the actual channel just like before will accomplish nothing at all.


Better Still a small window with the show and text below it describing why the video isn't filling the screen and what to do to continue watching. Do that in the extra 30 days congress just gave.


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## Kansas Zephyr

scooper said:


> *Not to mention the stations that are going back to their old UHF freqs as well*. IF this measure gets passed - it's only an authorization to provide "the night-light" message - it is NOT a mandate to continue normal ops.


From what I've seen, in the FCC database, most UHF analog broadcasters that are also UHF digital, are just going to turn off the analog transmitter and keep the newer UHF assignment.

Since the operating costs are negligible between different UHF channels, unlike UHF compared to VHF, they went ahead and built their permanent digital facilities on the new channel. That's a smaller, less expensive, headache than replacing the VHF analog signal with digital and abandoning the newer UHF digital transmitter.


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## scooper

Key word is "MOST". If a stations current digital is at or above channel 52, it will have to move back down to core (2-51). In some cases, the station is going back to it's analog assignment, in others they are going to something else. My market has all 3 cases going on.. a couple stations are on final DTV assignments, a couple are going to analog assignments, and a couple are going to something else completely...


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## samhevener

In yesterday's USA Today CEO Charlie Ergen said, (quote) "If the new adminstration comes in and they see that the transition is not ready and that consumers could lose their (TV) signal, Congress will go out to protect consumers." "That's their job, right?........." (unquote) Don't be to sure their will be a complete shutdown of high power stations on that date.


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## ImBack234

n3ntj said:


> IF they don't know by now, will they ever get it? Everybody's been talking about this for over a year.


It would help if the commercials that are running would tell the total true.
They say if you have cable your fine. They forget to tell you in must cases you will need a cable box for ever tv (@ $7 per box).:eek2:

"Do I need an iO TV cable box for every television?
An iO TV® cable box is not required to view non-digital (analog) channels. However, you'll need a digital cable box to enjoy our digital and interactive content, including:

* Digital Channels
* Video-On-Demand
* Digital Music Channels
* Enhanced TV (iO Games, Optimum Homes, Optimum Autos).

As more and more channels are being offered in digital format only, consider adding cable boxes on each television to get the most of your iO TV service. "
They forget to you that it's there plan is to only offer them in digital format.
In a time when they are losing customers left and right they should rethink that plan.:eek2:


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## Kansas Zephyr

ImBack234 said:


> It would help if the commercials that are running would tell the total true.
> They say if you have cable your fine. *They forget to tell you in must cases you will need a cable box for ever tv (@ $7 per box).*:eek2:


If a cable company provides ANY analog service (even if it is one single channel), they are required, by the FCC, to also carry the local stations in analog. So, your current cable coax direct to TV (no set-top) will have your local TV stations. 

If a cable system drops ALL analog and has ONLY digital service, then, yes a set-top-box is required for every TV.


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> In yesterday's USA Today CEO Charlie Ergen said, (quote) "If the new adminstration comes in and they see that the transition is not ready and that consumers could lose their (TV) signal, Congress will go out to protect consumers." "That's their job, right?........." (unquote) Don't be to sure their will be a complete shutdown of high power stations on that date.


OK.

Still, I'm willing to bet. Are you? 

I say that normal programming will be broadcast on local full-power stations only in digital starting 2/18/09. With the exception of those few facilities that are granted specific temporary waivers. Or, get fined for failing to meet the deadline.


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## ImBack234

Kansas Zephyr said:


> If a cable company provides ANY analog service (even if it is one single channel), they are required, by the FCC, to also carry the local stations in analog. So, your current cable coax direct to TV (no set-top) will have your local TV stations.
> 
> If a cable system drops ALL analog and has ONLY digital service, then, yes a set-top-box is required for every TV.


From what I understand they are going digital only. So if you don't have a digital tuner (which will only get you locals) you will need a box.:eek2:
I'm waiting for that day cause some people say cable is cheaper, there in for a rude awakening.


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## Kansas Zephyr

ImBack234 said:


> From what I understand they are going digital only. So if you don't have a digital tuner (which will only get you locals) you will need a box.:eek2:
> I'm waiting for that day cause some people say cable is cheaper, there in for a rude awakening.


There is a very, very, large number of cable customers that have "basic cable" only.

That's the analog only service where the cable runs from the "wall jack" directly to the TV without a converter box.

I think that there are very, very few cable systems that will dump all analog service anytime soon.

So, if a cable provider has ANY basic cable tier, then they are required to carry down-converted digital to analog local TV stations after 2/18/09.

The overwhelming majority of cable customers will NOT be forced into a set-top-box to receive SD local OTA service (...which they get now).

If you want to get HD, if available, local channels, then yes, most likely you will need a STB.


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## samhevener

I don't want to take your money and I have also used my adapter box coupons. I hooked up my adapter box and couldn't receive 2 channels I have been receiving for the past 33 years, including Channel 3 in Cleveland, 20 miles away. I'm sure the analog stations will be ordered to stay on the air longer than Feb 17th. As far as the auction of the frequencies, I'm sure that in the legal description of the auctions, the government had some type of disclaimer. QUOTE=Kansas Zephyr;1902755]OK.

Still, I'm willing to bet. Are you? 

I say that normal programming will be broadcast on local full-power stations only in digital starting 2/18/09. With the exception of those few facilities that are granted specific temporary waivers. Or, get fined for failing to meet the deadline.[/QUOTE]


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> I don't want to take your money and I have also used my adapter box coupons. I hooked up my adapter box and couldn't receive 2 channels I have been receiving for the past 33 years, including Channel 3 in Cleveland, 20 miles away. I'm sure the analog stations will be ordered to stay on the air longer than Feb 17th. As far as the auction of the frequencies, I'm sure that in the legal description of the auctions, the government had some type of disclaimer.


If you bet me, I don't think you'd be taking anything from me. 

WKYC is temporarily on RF channel 2 (virtual 3.1) with their digital signal. VHF Lo is prone to multi-path, that may your problem.

But, I wouldn't waste the time to solve it by reorienting, or acquiring a new antenna, yet.

On 2/18/09 they will "move" the digital signal to their permanent assignment of RF channel 17 (virtual 3.1). So, I believe that after midnight on that date, or soon thereafter, if you rescan for digital signals you'll be able to get WKYC-DT over-the-air.

What other channel are you having trouble with?


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## samhevener

The other channel I can't receive is PBS Channel 25 in Cleveland.


Kansas Zephyr said:


> If you bet me, I don't think you'd be taking anything from me.
> 
> WKYC is temporarily on RF channel 2 (virtual 3.1) with their digital signal. VHF Lo is prone to multi-path, that may your problem.
> 
> But, I wouldn't waste the time to solve it by reorienting, or acquiring a new antenna, yet.
> 
> On 2/18/09 they will "move" the digital signal to their permanent assignment of RF channel 17 (virtual 3.1). So, I believe that after midnight on that date, or soon thereafter, if you rescan for digital signals you'll be able to get WKYC-DT over-the-air.
> 
> What other channel are you having trouble with?


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> The other channel I can't receive is PBS Channel 25 in Cleveland.


What are the call letters, and what's your zip code, please?


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## kocuba

samhevener said:


> The other channel I can't receive is PBS Channel 25 in Cleveland.


PBS in Cleveland(WVIZ) is operating on a temporary antenna and a lower height than it's final destination. Here is some additional info here.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1864740#post1864740


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## Kansas Zephyr

kocuba said:


> PBS in Cleveland(WVIZ) is operating on a temporary antenna and a lower height than it's final destination. Here is some additional info here.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1864740#post1864740


Good link...thanks.

Sam, can't you see how plans have been made...and there is a lot of momentum to accomplish the transition by 2/17/09?

That's why I'm pretty confident, except for the situations I posted about earlier, it's too late to put on the brakes for somethings that's inevitable.


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## samhevener

Thanks for the information. I'm not saying that the transition isn't going to happen. What I'm saying is that some part of the transition is going to be delayed. It's not going to be the complete changeover on Feb 17th that the past congress voted on.


Kansas Zephyr said:


> Good link...thanks.
> 
> Sam, can't you see how plans have been made...and there is a lot of momentum to accomplish the transition by 2/17/09?
> 
> That's why I'm pretty confident, except for the situations I posted about earlier, it's too late to put on the brakes for somethings that's inevitable.


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> Thanks for the information. I'm not saying that the transition isn't going to happen. What I'm saying is that some part of the transition is going to be delayed. It's not going to be the complete changeover on Feb 17th that the past congress voted on.


There are equipment, staffing, and engineering plans that are funded and in place for the vast majority of full-power TV stations.

These include the use of current RF channels carrying analog today, that will carry digital on 2/18/09.

Again, I say that all normal programming broadcast in analog will cease on all full-power TV stations on midnight 2/18/09. With a handful of waivers being the only exceptions.

Sam...Do you agree? Yes, or no only, please.

We need to think of this like ripping off a band-aid. You've got to draw a line, and cross it. A slow, piecemeal transition will be more "painful".


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## n3ntj

I hope they just stop analog on the date already agreed to and planned on and move on with the complaints of those who can't now receive DT. No more delays..


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## HIPAR

Kansas Zephyr said:


> ...
> 
> Again, I say that all normal programming broadcast in analog will cease on all full-power TV stations on midnight 2/18/09. With a handful of waivers being the only exceptions.


Barring a national emergency, there will be no waivers.

--- CHAS


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## scooper

Waivers in the border zones with Mexico and Canada where all details haven't been worked out yet.

Otherwise - cut'em over to final plan. (or in accordance with submitted plans).


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## samhevener

The answer is no. What difference does it make to you or any of the others that already have digital TVs if the analog stations stay on a little longer? The analog stations keep operating for those who don't have digital or are having a problem with it. What are you not going to miss out on? Are your taxes going to be raised because there is a delay? You continue watching your digital TVs as usual with nothing missing. No problem except that maybe some of the megabillion dollar cell phone companies have their new frequencies delayed a little amount of time and the megabillion dollar TV broadcasters have to operate two transmitters a little longer. Maybe some of our TV broadcast engineer friends will stay employed a little longer before be laid off.


Kansas Zephyr said:


> There are equipment, staffing, and engineering plans that are funded and in place for the vast majority of full-power TV stations.
> 
> These include the use of current RF channels carrying analog today, that will carry digital on 2/18/09.
> 
> Again, I say that all normal programming broadcast in analog will cease on all full-power TV stations on midnight 2/18/09. With a handful of waivers being the only exceptions.
> 
> Sam...Do you agree? Yes, or no only, please.
> 
> We need to think of this like ripping off a band-aid. You've got to draw a line, and cross it. A slow, piecemeal transition will be more "painful".


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> *The answer is no*. What difference does it make to you or any of the others that already have digital TVs if the analog stations stay on a little longer? The analog stations keep operating for those who don't have digital or are having a problem with it. What are you not going to miss out on? Are your taxes going to be raised because there is a delay? You continue watching your digital TVs as usual with nothing missing. No problem except that maybe some of the megabillion dollar cell phone companies have their new frequencies delayed a little amount of time and the megabillion dollar TV broadcasters have to operate two transmitters a little longer. *Maybe some of our TV broadcast engineer friends will stay employed a little longer before be laid off*.


Good...at least we've established our virtual "bet". If what I think happens, I win and you can post as such. If not, I'll post about your superior judgment. 

The problem is some of the stations will need to shift their digital broadcast to another RF channel. That all must be done as close to the same time as possible to minimize conflicts. Some of these channels currently have analog broadcasts.

It doesn't matter if it happens today, a month, or a year from now. Whenever it occurs, there will be some issues by some viewers somewhere.

At this late date, there is a very minimal amount to be gained by a delay, compared to a great deal of cost...and additional confusion.

Please explain how increased operating costs keep anyone employed longer.


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## samhevener

Increased operating costs don't keep EVERYONE employed longer. I'm just talking about my friends and neighbors. I'm not talking about people like the auto company CEO's that are so out of touch with the rest of us they flew on private corporate jets to attend hearings asking for some of your and my tax money to bail them out. I could care less about them. If my friends and neighbors can say employed a few months longer before being laid off, thats great. As we all know, many layoffs are in the future.


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## Jim5506

It's not that the auto companies CEO's are out of touch, it's that congress and the UAW have so screwed up the auto industry in Michigan that they don't know where to turn.

They beg for cash and congress tells them to make cars that nobody wants to buy - that'll get them the money to pay us back, won't it!

It was probably more fuel efficient and time efficient for them to use the corporate jet to go to Washington , but some stupid senator had to grand stand and demagogue and berate them for anything he could find.

Look at the "other" auto industry in Tennesee and the Carolinas (Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Toyota, etc.) without the weight of labor union perks they are surviving.

GM, Ford And Chrysler need the money to pay the salaries of laid off workers who still get 95% of their regular salary, and the Union health benefits which would (and may) bankrupt the Federal Government.


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## Stuart Sweet

Let's get back to topic please.


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## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> Increased operating costs don't keep EVERYONE employed longer. I'm just talking about my friends and neighbors. *I'm not talking about people like the auto company CEO's that are so out of touch with the rest of us they flew on private corporate jets to attend hearings asking for some of your and my tax money to bail them out.* I could care less about them. If my friends and neighbors can say employed a few months longer before being laid off, thats great. As we all know, many layoffs are in the future.


How did that work its way into this?

The cost of the digital transition, combined with the softening advertising revenue, has cost jobs in the TV industry. Most of those are your neighbors that work at local TV stations. Feel free to "Google" around, there are a few places that have shuttered news departments, terminating the entire staff.

Prolonging the full-power analog cut-off date, will put more jobs at risk, not less...so a relative handful can still watch analog TV, for just a bit longer.

We are too close to the deadline now. A delay would only cause more trouble that it's worth.

It's estimated that only 6% of Americans use over-the-air exclusively. The majority of those can now, or will be able to, receive digital TV OTA after 2/18/09.

That's why I think, the way I do, on this issue.


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## HIPAR

The House reconvenes Monday (Dec 8) and will need to approve the legislation before it goes to President Bush. I don't think there should be any opposition because Senator Rockefeller and Representative Capps worked out its details. Then, it really doesn't set the DTV transition back because it doesn't allow for programming and contains provisions of technical feasibility to cover the numerous cases where channels will be juggled or interference will occur.

I'm sure the suits running those stations that will stay on the air won't be happy but they will just grin and bear it for 30 more days as a cost of doing business.

--- CHAS


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## Kansas Zephyr

HIPAR said:


> The House reconvenes Monday (Dec 8) and will need to approve the legislation before it goes to President Bush. I don't think there should be any opposition because Senator Rockefeller and Representative Capps worked out its details. Then, it really doesn't set the DTV transition back because it doesn't allow for programming and contains provisions of technical feasibility to cover the numerous cases where channels will be juggled or interference will occur.
> 
> I'm sure the suits running those stations that will stay on the air won't be happy but they will just grin and bear it for 30 more days as a cost of doing business.
> 
> --- CHAS


Even if this bill passes, I would still win "the bet" with Sam, since all normal programming will cease.

Sam's argument is that "business as usual" analog will continue past 2/18/09 due to some other last minute action...or, at least it should.


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## n3ntj

Kansas Zephyr said:


> How did that work its way into this?
> 
> The cost of the digital transition, combined with the softening advertising revenue, has cost jobs in the TV industry. Most of those are your neighbors that work at local TV stations. Feel free to "Google" around, there are a few places that have shuttered news departments, terminating the entire staff.
> 
> Prolonging the full-power analog cut-off date, will put more jobs at risk, not less...so a relative handful can still watch analog TV, for just a bit longer.
> 
> We are too close to the deadline now. A delay would only cause more trouble that it's worth.
> 
> It's estimated that only 6% of Americans use over-the-air exclusively. The majority of those can now, or will be able to, receive digital TV OTA after 2/18/09.
> 
> That's why I think, the way I do, on this issue.


The same company in Erie, PA owns WSEE (CBS) and WICU (NBC). The company is moving WSEE to the WICU location, enlarging the building, laying off people, and apparently will be eliminating several newscasts.


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## FTA Michael

Update: The House has also passed the bill, and the prez is expected to sign it.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/ca6621803.html


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## n3ntj

It says the message has to be in English AND spanish??


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## Kansas Zephyr

The key here is that it's a voluntary program.

Therefore, all normal programming is still scheduled to end on all full-power analog TV signals at 12:00am 2/18/09.


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## scooper

And since it is VOLUNTARY, stations are not required to do it. Some may do it just as a community service, but I can see quite a few financially strapped stations not bothering.


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## Jim5506

An empty political stunt for senators and representatives to CYA when people gripe.


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## HIPAR

The bill has been delivered to the White House. I'm not sure if participation is voluntary although the language does say 'encourage and permit'. It requires the FCC to develop an implementation plan by Jan 15 so it's going to be interesting who they 'encourage' to stay on the air. 

Where the TV spectrum is to be tightly packed, there won't be too many channels available for the analog. Perhaps stations currently analog on low band VHF but doing digital elsewhere might be the best candidates to continue analog public service announcements.

--- CHAS


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## lee635

I think they should have done the cutover to digital on a phased basis by region. Maybe one time zone per month or something. I am thinking that if there aren't enough digital converter boxes in February, it will take some time to manufacture and ship out more. Also, by doing the transition in pieces, we could learn from the first transition and get better with the later transitions. Also, a permanent crawl lin should be running at the bottom of the screen 30 days prior to the switchover. 

I just hope there are plenty of CSRs on duty at the cable companies, E*, D* and every local station when February rolls around. The internet blogs are going to be smokin with commentary about all the "problems"....


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## scooper

They didn't - so be prepared for a flood of people asking "how can I watch my local TV stations ?" when they previously got them OTA. Just tell them that the answer is the digital conversion boxes with possibly a better antenna than they were using for analog.

Just today I saw a comment about how all the people that ask this ought to be put in the paper for public humiliation, since only someone living under a rock and not watching TV for the last 2 years could possibly be ignorant of the transition.


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## Kansas Zephyr

lee635 said:


> I just hope there are plenty of CSRs on duty at the *cable companies, E*, D** and every local station when February rolls around. The internet blogs are going to be smokin with commentary about all the "problems"....


Why? If you are a customer of those services, the end of analog will be transparent.


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## Tom Robertson

Indeed--the end of broadcast analogue is not the end of cable analogue...


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## Kansas Zephyr

Tom Robertson said:


> Indeed--the end of broadcast analogue is not the end of cable analogue...


+1...absolutely!

Yes...I should have been more clear and said, "the end of full-power OTA analog".

It will be years, if not decades, before every cable and sat provider eliminates all analog RF options for their customers.


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## HIPAR

President Bush has signed the bill.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/12/20081223-2.html

--- CHAS


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## HDTVFreak07

I'd much rather see them shut off NOW! With the weather around here, every time power goes out where the towers are located, the generator ONLY works the analog and I'm left with no local channels. I do NOT watch analog anymore. It's frustrating not watching my programs in HD. Once the analog cuts off, the generator will work only for Digital and life will be sweeter!


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## FTA Michael

Update: The FCC has issued proposed guidelines for the "DTV Nightlight".

* Flash-cut stations aren't eligible.
* Only channels 2-51 are eligible.
* Because of "conservative" interference avoidance, only 136 of 210 markets have eligible stations.
* The guidelines include a list of pre-approved stations.
* In addition to DTV transition info, Nightlight stations may carry emergency info, defined as "tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, tidal waves, earth quakes, icing conditions, heavy snows, widespread fires, discharge of toxic gases, widespread power failures, industrial explosions, civil disorders, school closings and changes in school bus schedules resulting from such conditions, and warning and watches of impending changes in weather."

Full story at Broadcasting & Cable: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6625022.html?rssid=211


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## cweave02

FTA Michael said:


> Call me crazy, but I like this idea. If, after the shutoff, stations _may_ broadcast nothing but DTV switchover info and emergency info for 30 days max, that sounds smart. If Mr. Clueless turns on his set and sees nothing but "go get a converter box now" on his old channels, maybe he'll finally get the idea. It's better than him turning on his set, seeing nothing but static, and calling the TV stations.


I really like that idea. It actualy makes sense.


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## txtommy

cweave02 said:


> I really like that idea. It actually makes sense.


I agree 100%. Those who have not bothered to change by Feb. 17 are the same ones who will wonder why their TV stopped working on March 17.


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## James Long

Media Bureau Announces Comment and Reply Comment Dates for the "Analog Nightlight" NPRM: January 5 and January 8, 2009.
Public Notice

It seems that the FCC's hands are pretty much tied by Congress, so I'm not sure what a comment would actually mean ... but the windows are open next week and the FCC must act by January 15th.

I wish Congress would set a "must act" deadline on other rulemakings that stretch on for years without resolution. 

Proposed Rule Making
Initial list of eligible stations (note - there is NO requirement that nightlight be provided)
ONE station in New York initially qualifies (WCBS Ch 2), ONE in Chicago (WBBM ch 2) ... Three in LA. None in my market (South Bend) although LPTVs will likely remain on the air.

If this nightlight is really needed it should be done BEFORE the deadline. I'm glad it is just "emergency information" but it's time to get a clue. 30 extra days isn't going to do that much good. The uniformed that lose their signals on February 18th will immediately be without TV content. Are they really going to watch the "nightlight" for emergency information unless the emergency is already upon them? Will there be fines for stations airing non-emergency content?

In my market the PBS analog has already gone dark (last March) due to a transmitter failure. The full power religious channel will be going dark January 15th. One channel is moving their digital to their analog channel on February 17th ... another has permission to do that late (by March 17th) due to a conflict getting a transmitter. The final of the five probably could get nightlight service if they petitioned for it. The LP stations will probably stay on the air in analog (and they can keep their normal content).

What a mess.


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## HIPAR

What would be an incentive to keep my analog transmitter running for 30 more days if I am not allowed to do advertising with it? 

--- CHAS


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## scooper

I would have thought Raleigh had a couple possibilities (channels 4 and 5 and 50 and 47) - but no - no local nightlight here.


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## FTA Michael

James Long said:


> 30 extra days isn't going to do that much good. The uniformed that lose their signals on February 18th will immediately be without TV content. Are they really going to watch the "nightlight" for emergency information unless the emergency is already upon them?


Aw, c'mon. It's not that crazy.

The nightlight programming should tell the clueless (a) that Wheel of Fortune ain't coming back to analog, (b) what they need to keep watching TV, (c) where to go buy it, and (d) do NOT call the station. There's always someone, and this is what they need.

Now suppose that during this period, a monster ice storm or some worse emergency keeps everybody in their homes for a couple of days. Wouldn't it be helpful to provide emergency info (updates on who's got power, school closings) until it thaws enough for these folks to get to a store for their converters?

I hope that it won't be very entertaining, but this nightlight idea could make life easier for stations and viewers as the last analogers are given their final nudge.


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## James Long

FTA Michael said:


> Now suppose that during this period, a monster ice storm or some worse emergency keeps everybody in their homes for a couple of days. Wouldn't it be helpful to provide emergency info (updates on who's got power, school closings) until it thaws enough for these folks to get to a store for their converters?


I expect that the stores will sell out of converters on February 18th as some of the last holdouts react. Supply will not keep up with demand (unless the stores have pallets of converters sitting in the warehouse for February 18th).

If emergency information is so important why not require (not just permit) one major broadcaster in each market to keep their analog signal running for the next year? Perhaps even rework the table of allotments to have permanent analog nightlights? Is March 18th any more of a magical "end of emergencies" day than February 18th?

And what is an emergency to someone who has somehow missed or ignored all of the warnings that we have been buried in over the past years? Not knowing what happened on Wednesday afternoon soaps? The evening news? Lotto results?

While this is law and the FCC cannot simply ignore the request it appears that most of the commissioners are supporting the service. There will be "nightlights" ... I hope they are done properly.

The biggest challenge is to allow the "nightlight" service without harming the digital services. One reason why I have not connected all of my converter boxes is that I am receiving interference from analog stations. I am looking forward to February 18th when many of the stations I will get will go full power and the interfering stations will go away.


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## tkrandall

I just want to know this: will this mean a month delay in the cutover of the digital broadcasts to their "permanent" location and/or power level? For example, WGTV channel "8" in Atlanta is digital low power on channel 12 right now, but will be reverting to their legacy channel 8 RF assignment for their digital broadcast at full power. Will that be delayed 30 days by this law? There are other stations whose permanent-home digital broadcast might be directional or low power at the moment so as to not interfere with legacy analog. Will their power up also be delayed another 30 days?


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## Tom Robertson

The text indicates the nightlight stations may not interfere with the new digital stations; so I would say no. Digital channels will have full priority February 18, 2009.

Happy Epiphany!
Tom


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## Kansas Zephyr

tkrandall said:


> I just want to know this: will this mean a month delay in the cutover of the digital broadcasts to their "permanent" location and/or power level? For example, WGTV channel "8" in Atlanta is digital low power on channel 12 right now, but will be reverting to their legacy channel 8 RF assignment for their digital broadcast at full power. Will that be delayed 30 days by this law? There are other stations whose permanent-home digital broadcast might be directional or low power at the moment so as to not interfere with legacy analog. Will their power up also be delayed another 30 days?


No...this is a voluntary program, for those stations who will NOT be "returning" to their current analog assignment with their digital signal on 2/18/09.


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## James Long

The nightlight service WILL NOT interrupt scheduled channel changes and upgrades. It only allows stations with analog facilities that do not conflict with the digital future to remain on the air for up to 30 days longer with an emergency feed.

A quick look at the comments filed. There are stations asking for government money to pay for the extra month of running the transmitter. There is a station requesting to air their normal programming. There is a station requesting longer than 30 days. There is a group of low power stations requesting as limited of a service as possible so they can take over the analog frequencies. The NAB is requesting many many more stations be added to the pre-approved list.

It is going to be a busy month for the video folks at the FCC. This SHOULD be a time when they are buttoning down the final CPs and getting stations converted. This SHOULD be a time when all the petitions to change channels should be granted or denied so the stations can be built (or not). Yet the FCC is dealing with this. :nono:


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## Kansas Zephyr

James Long said:


> A quick look at the comments filed. There are stations asking for government money to pay for the extra month of running the transmitter.


The larger cost is to quickly program, engineer, and implement an independent source, signal path, and STL feed that contains only the "nightlight" programming.


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## James Long

Kansas Zephyr said:


> The larger cost is to quickly program, engineer, and implement an independent source, signal path, and STL feed that contains only the "nightlight" programming.


Burn a DVD and take it to the transmitter site? (And hope your TX isn't burried in snow.)

Fortunately it is a voluntary program. Those that can should, those that can't are not required to do so. Congress didn't fund this, so the FCC doesn't have any money to hand out. Kinda pointless to ask.


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## Kansas Zephyr

James Long said:


> Burn a DVD and take it to the transmitter site? (And hope your TX isn't burried in snow.)
> 
> Fortunately it is a voluntary program. Those that can should, those that can't are not required to do so. Congress didn't fund this, so the FCC doesn't have any money to hand out. Kinda pointless to ask.


As long as there are no emergencies to broadcast, that will work. (Fingers crossed)

Me thinks the number of stations "nightlighting" will be quite small.


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## HDTVFreak07

The government should back off and keep the analog cut off date set at 2/17/2009, period! Those who didn't act, TOO BAD!!!! Leave the cut off as is so that those who didn't act, reality will strike them and get them to get off their lazy phat butts and get with the program.


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## ercjncprdtv

HDTVFreak07 said:


> The government should back off and keep the analog cut off date set at 2/17/2009, period! Those who didn't act, TOO BAD!!!! Leave the cut off as is so that those who didn't act, reality will strike them and get them to get off their lazy phat butts and get with the program.


AGREE!!!!!!!!!
the ones who still have not got the message at this point deserve to lose tv service.


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## James Long

So Ordered: Per Congress' mandate, the FCC will leave on a nightlight ...
Report & Order
New Station List

There are now 826 stations in 47 states and 202 DMAs immediately eligible for nightlight service. Generally the FCC accepted a list the NAB provided, with a few exceptions.

The FCC will now accept "Legal STAs" or a simple email to acknowledge participation. They will no longer require updating the station's transition reports. (The media bureau will provide a list of all participants to the public and enter any emailed participation notices into the public database.) Notification is required by February 10th.

Stations not initially eligible will be able to file an "Engineering STA" to prove eligibility. This is due by February 3rd.

Only LIMITED sponsorship information will be allowed. BRIEF identification of sponsors.


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## Alan Gordon

James Long said:


> New Station List


Not very informative, now is it?  

~Alan


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## James Long

I see a long list of stations sorted by market and listing their analog and digital channels.
Do you see something different?


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## Tom Robertson

I also see that there is one station in Salt Lake interested in participating. And lots of DMAs with no stations indicating an interest so far...

Thanks, James


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## dettxw

James Long said:


> So Ordered: Per Congress' mandate, the FCC will leave on a nightlight ...
> Report & Order
> New Station List
> 
> There are now 826 stations in 47 states and 202 DMAs immediately eligible for nightlight service. Generally the FCC accepted a list the NAB provided, with a few exceptions.
> 
> The FCC will now accept "Legal STAs" or a simple email to acknowledge participation. They will no longer require updating the station's transition reports. (The media bureau will provide a list of all participants to the public and enter any emailed participation notices into the public database.) Notification is required by February 10th.
> 
> Stations not initially eligible will be able to file an "Engineering STA" to prove eligibility. This is due by February 3rd.
> 
> Only LIMITED sponsorship information will be allowed. BRIEF identification of sponsors.


??
Very interesting that your attachment shows that OKC abc station KOCO is going to UHF 16 from VHF 7 after the transition. 
First time I've seen that. 
Their VHF digital signal is quite hard for many to receive, especially since power is reduced to the south so as not to interfere with a station in that direction. 
Many in south OKC can't get their VHF signal at all OTA.


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## James Long

dettxw said:


> ??
> Very interesting that your attachment shows that OKC abc station KOCO is going to UHF 16 from VHF 7 after the transition.
> First time I've seen that.
> Their VHF digital signal is quite hard for many to receive, especially since power is reduced to the south so as not to interfere with a station in that direction.
> Many in south OKC can't get their VHF signal at all OTA.


There may be errors. One of the Ft Wayne stations that will remain on channel 31 is listed as moving to channel 4. They are not.


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## joblo

I found an error in my neck of the woods, too. I'm sure there are others...


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## Kansas Zephyr

Tom Robertson said:


> I also see that there is one station in Salt Lake interested in participating. And lots of DMAs with no stations indicating an interest so far...


+1

I don't think we'll even see 50% of eligible stations night-lighting.


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## Jim5506

Why waste the money on an expensive transmission.

Many stations will save tens of thousands of dollars a month by shutting off the analog transmitter.


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