# 922 - Ready to trade it in



## HotRod19579

I am having many issues with the 922. So many I am ready to call Dish and ask them to return my 722. The 922 reminds me of my 921 experiences. 

Last night I had 3 timers that were to kick off at 8pm. The menu showed no conflicts and the guide reflected that they were all going to record. The programs were Grey's Anatomy (SAT), CSI (OTA) and Supernatural (OTA). I was in the midst of watching a recorded event when 8pm rolled around and my TV went blank. After waiting for a minute or two I finally went back to "My Recordings" and told the program I was watching to resume. This event worried me so I went back and looked at the guide and it showed that all 3 of my timers were recording. I then went and looked at "My recordings" and I seen two icons for CSI, both reflecting that they were recording and no icons for Supernatural and Grey's Anatomy. I was hopeful that I would eventually see the recordings when they quit recording.
After the recordings stopped (9:05pm), I went to "My Recordings" and I seen that I now had 1 icon for CSI reflecting that it recorded but the other two programs were no where to be found. When looking at the status of the timers they all showed that they had completed successfully. Where did the programs go?

Other bad experiences:
I backed up my 722 recordings on an EHD so that I could restore to the 922. After receiving S104 I began restoring the programs. Everytime I tried to restore many programs at once the restore would stop with an error. The only way I could get the restore to work was to restore them 1 program at a time. After restoring programs, I noticed that several of my recorded programs (recorded from the 922) had disappeared. It was as though the restored programs was over writing my other programs and as an FYI, I only had 10% disk usage.

I also have issues when wathing recorded events on the 922. About 50% of the time the watched event will freeze for about 5 to 10 seconds and then continue. This happens many times while watching the program. Originally I thought it was only happening with OTA recordings but later learned that it was happening with recordings off of the SAT.

A feature issues:
1.You can only create timers from the search feature or the program guide. You cannot manually set timers. I have had occassions where I would know that a new program was launching in 2 months and with the 722 I would set a manual timer so that it would record. With the 922 I have to wait until it starts showing in the program guide.
2. With the 722 I could setup a timer for something such as "CSI". This one timer would record CSI:Miami and CSI:NY as well as "CSI". You can't do that with the 922.
3. With the 722 I did not have to specify the channel to record. It would search and record the event regardless of the channel. Forget it with the 922. You must specify the channel. Give me my "Dish Pass".

If anyone is thinking about upgrading to the 922, DON'T. 

Is anyone else having issues? Do I have some bad hardware or is it buggy software? Based on the issues I am seeing it appears to be software.


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## zer0cool

Last night, I had three timers going at 9 PM, one of which was not showing in the "My Recordings" screen, although looking at the daily schedule, it showed to be recording. The same issue occurred this past Tuesday.


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## hoopsbwc34

Seems like a lot of these issue involve using the OTA module. Anyone had a similar problem when recording two shows? Not involving OTA?


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## BattleZone

HotRod19579 said:


> Is anyone else having issues? Do I have some bad hardware or is it buggy software? Based on the issues I am seeing it appears to be software.


Yes, these are software issues. And, honestly, not at all unexpected by folks with any experience with "new" models.

The 922 is a brand new box and has had major software revisions just months before release. It is widely acknowledged that the software isn't complete, and understood by most (based on past experience, if nothing else) that the software was going to be buggy for at least 6-12 months after its release. Most 922 threads have had folks mention that they're going to hold off upgrading until most of the bugs have been worked out.

It's a Catch-22 for service providers. A vocal minority of subscribers moan and wail about the latest box's release date and demand to know when they can put their hands on it, so there is great pressure to release the box. But the software isn't fully ready to go, so there are bugs that have to be killed and features yet to be implemented. Then the folks who were early adopters get upset that their new box isn't working perfectly.

Bottom line is that you'll either need to be patient, or get Dish to switch you back.


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## TulsaOK

BattleZone said:


> Yes, these are software issues. And, honestly, not at all unexpected by folks with any experience with "new" models.


I would have to disagree with that statement. Just because it's a "new" model, issues like what's being reported should not be "expected". I'm sure most of the folks who signed up for the 922 are early adopters but expected the thing to do what it was designed to do without these weird errors.


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## Stewart Vernon

I concur... I think customers should have an reasonable expectation that a new product will do what it is advertised to do.

Glitches can and do happen once in the field... but if there are some basic functions that aren't working properly, that says to me that due diligence was not performed prior to release.

I can't speak to Dish or the 922... but I have worked for computer hardware & software companies that would routinely release with "known" issues that they deemed unimportant... and the plan was to wait and see if enough people complained to make it worth fixing. I've never liked that practice, but it seems a lot of corporations operate that way.


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## boylehome

HotRod19579 said:


> A feature issues:
> 1.You can only create timers from the search feature or the program guide. You cannot manually set timers. I have had occassions where I would know that a new program was launching in 2 months and with the 722 I would set a manual timer so that it would record. With the 922 I have to wait until it starts showing in the program guide.
> 2. With the 722 I could setup a timer for something such as "CSI". This one timer would record CSI:Miami and CSI:NY as well as "CSI". You can't do that with the 922.
> 3. With the 722 I did not have to specify the channel to record. It would search and record the event regardless of the channel. Forget it with the 922. You must specify the channel. Give me my "Dish Pass".
> 
> If anyone is thinking about upgrading to the 922, DON'T.
> 
> Is anyone else having issues? Do I have some bad hardware or is it buggy software? Based on the issues I am seeing it appears to be software.


Very concerning. It sounds like it is quite different.


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## dtvgone

I've had sequential and occasionally dual concurrent/one sequential OTA recordings complete without problems, even though I didn't change to default overlaps. Only anomaly so far has been few OTAs last week with about 2 minute second segments of the recording that seems to have been at times of overlap with a sequential recording. Deleted them as didn't contain program content.

The main problem that I have experienced has been with loss of recordings on EHD transfer with S104; had cleared out prior 722 to EHD before install, and waited until S104 until attempting transfer.

Most recordings have transferred, works best with single recording at a time, and more OTAs than sat recordings transferred successfully. had also recorded some of those lost on 722k, so moved missing recordings to EHD and tried again. Still lost a few, mostly OTA. File size may be the reason, as 1 hr OTA ? MPEG2 > 6.2GB, 1 hr sat ? MPEG4 about 1.9GB. 

EHD now empty, so connected back to 722k. S105 was on 922 yesterday, but nothing to transfer, and not worth the time to record and transfer twice to see if the errors still occur. Probably won't connect it to the 922 again until bidirectional transfer and play from EHD enabled.

One difference between successful and failed transfers is that the progress bar slowly moves towards completion with successful transfers, but believe most, if not all failures are associated with almost instant status bar change to > 50% complete, then almost totally complete, and hang there until "error transferring recordings to your receiver" appears.


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## phrelin

Stewart Vernon said:


> I concur... I think customers should have an reasonable expectation that a new product will do what it is advertised to do.
> 
> Glitches can and do happen once in the field... but if there are some basic functions that aren't working properly, that says to me that due diligence was not performed prior to release.
> 
> I can't speak to Dish or the 922... but I have worked for computer hardware & software companies that would routinely release with "known" issues that they deemed unimportant... and the plan was to wait and see if enough people complained to make it worth fixing. I've never liked that practice, but it seems a lot of corporations operate that way.


These are not used as high tech devices, they are basically a TV. Over the years I realize the Charlie and his minions don't understand that.

It was fascinating to watch this whole process.

I know that Dish's CSR's who are technically challenged single moms with 3 kids and who were part of the beta testing probably aren't members here. So I can't be sure how many were among the final product testers.

But if you look back on the dealer employees who a month or two in advance of the release said "we have one, but we haven't had time to work with it" you may know why Dish has this problem.

Personally, I know I'm not the guy who ought to be given a new box two months prior to its general release to see how it works in a typical home because I'd be too careful with it. My hunch is that those "beta testers" who posted on the other web site also were not suitable as final prerelease testers.

There has to be at least two kids in the testing houses who use the boxes all the time and whine to the testing parents and Echostar Engineering until it's fixed. When the whining gets to a minimum, the TV works and the unit is fit for public use.

Some techie playing with the box is not a suitable final tester for a home television.


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## Stewart Vernon

I know what you mean... I have a completely different approach to testing than most people I've talked to... and I apply it to the way I write programs myself as well as when I've been asked to test other people's stuff...

First, I believe the coder/engineer has responsibility for unit testing as well as some measure of basic integration testing. IF the coder/engineer can't make it work in the lab under ideal conditions, then it shouldn't go out for anyone else to test.

Second, I assume #1... and so I quickly test to see if the thing does what it is advertised to do... and hopefully it does, because if it doesn't then I'm going to waste most of my time testing basic features and never getting to any advanced stuff.

Third, I try to spend the most time trying things that I think real people will do... and also things I think the coder/engineer doesn't think they will do. Basically, I try to break the thing. In the case of a DVR, I want to run all the tuners at one time and transfer to the EHD and play with the remote to order a PPV and then unplug it in the middle of all that!

Fourth, whenever I get a new version to test... I re-test all the known issues that are supposed to have been fixed... then I re-test all the bugs I had found in the previous release... and then I go back to my normal routing of trying to break it.

At companies where I've worked as a Technical Writer, I often served as an additional tester since I had to play with the technology in order to document it... and I usually uncovered some things during that process that their designers and testers were overlooking.


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## FarmerBob

BattleZone said:


> Yes, these are software issues. And, honestly, not at all unexpected by folks with any experience with "new" models.
> 
> The 922 is a brand new box and has had major software revisions just months before release. It is widely acknowledged that the software isn't complete, and understood by most (based on past experience, if nothing else) that the software was going to be buggy for at least 6-12 months after its release. Most 922 threads have had folks mention that they're going to hold off upgrading until most of the bugs have been worked out.
> 
> It's a Catch-22 for service providers. A vocal minority of subscribers moan and wail about the latest box's release date and demand to know when they can put their hands on it, so there is great pressure to release the box. But the software isn't fully ready to go, so there are bugs that have to be killed and features yet to be implemented. Then the folks who were early adopters get upset that their new box isn't working perfectly.
> 
> Bottom line is that you'll either need to be patient, or get Dish to switch you back.


+1


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## P Smith

There is no poll. Your digit is adding nothing to those 'guinea pigs' - owners of 922 as half baked product.


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## FarmerBob

P Smith said:


> There is no poll. Your digit is adding nothing to those 'guinea pigs' - owners of 922 as half baked product.


In forum talk that means I agree with what was said, i.e., Thumbs Up, Attaboy, etc. It has nothing to do with a poll. And I thought I was naive to the web.


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## tandt

hoopsbwc34 said:


> Seems like a lot of these issue involve using the OTA module. Anyone had a similar problem when recording two shows? Not involving OTA?


I don't use OTA and have had no problems recording 2 shows at the same time. Also, I think the lack of the DishPass feature is due to the settlement that Echostar just made with Tivo


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## HotRod19579

BattleZone said:


> Yes, these are software issues. And, honestly, not at all unexpected by folks with any experience with "new" models.
> 
> The 922 is a brand new box and has had major software revisions just months before release. It is widely acknowledged that the software isn't complete, and understood by most (based on past experience, if nothing else) that the software was going to be buggy for at least 6-12 months after its release. Most 922 threads have had folks mention that they're going to hold off upgrading until most of the bugs have been worked out.
> 
> It's a Catch-22 for service providers. A vocal minority of subscribers moan and wail about the latest box's release date and demand to know when they can put their hands on it, so there is great pressure to release the box. But the software isn't fully ready to go, so there are bugs that have to be killed and features yet to be implemented. Then the folks who were early adopters get upset that their new box isn't working perfectly.
> 
> Bottom line is that you'll either need to be patient, or get Dish to switch you back.


I agree that software companies will roll out a product before it is at 100% but they can't roll out a product before the basic functionality is provided. You could say that the basic functionality of the 922 is a receiver but Dish has many other receivers that performs as the 922 performs. Dish is after the DVR and SLING market with the 922. You would expect that the basic functionality, DVR functionality, would work. Failing to record and loosing recordings goes beyond an early release with known issues, the 922 should not even be classified as a beta release, it is an alpha release. In addition, when a software vendor rolls out a release with problems, they make it public what the known issues are. The only known issues that I am aware of are those that are coming from customers who are finding the issues. I see no acknowledgment from Dish that they are even addressing those issues. Since the 922 is being represented as an "upgrade" (That is how I got the receiver, I upgraded my 722) you would expect that the carry over functionality (DVR) would function and you might be at risk with the new features that were added. If new features had issues, I would accept that. Old features totally failing is unacceptable. Also, if old functionality (Dish Pass) is removed that should be made public and it would be acceptable if the old functionality was removed for legal reasons but again, I seen no notice of functionality that was removed.

Also, when you rollout a BETA release (922 is obviously beta/alpha), you let your customers know that it is beta to help set expectations. Usually beta customers are given some sort of incentive to be the test bed for a new product. I paid big bucks for a product with no mention from Dish that there may be feature issues. I expect to get what I paid for and that is a working system.


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## BattleZone

Dish knows how many "k" models they've sold and how many OTA tuners to fit them, and probably said "okay, since only 4.3% of our users use OTA, fixing this OTA bug isn't a high-priority item right now." (I made the number up, but it likely isn't far off.)

Everyone sees their own issue as being mega-important, even though the majority of users may never use that feature.

An example: PiP (picture-in-picture). For a very few people, PiP is a HUGE deal, and they make all kinds of noise about it. But the vast majority of people NEVER use it and couldn't care less.

Dish was under tremendous pressure to get the 922 out. It was their showpiece for 2 years of CES shows, and lots of people, including investors, wanted it out. But they also, for example, changed from a touch-pad remote to a standard remote very late in the game, and had to rip out some functionality until they could get it working with the new remote. That kind of major change means that lots of work ended up being scrapped and started over from scratch. And that kind of thing happens all the time when developing a new piece of equipment.

It's no different at DirecTV. The HR24 has a few teething issues, even though there is only one new feature (integrated DECA) in the OS, because that OS now has to run on totally different hardware. Yes, the hardware is much nicer, but it's going to take time to kill all the bugs in the software, and that's for a box with virtually identical features to the 4-year-old HR20.

This is also one of the reasons why the cable companies almost never release a software update for any of their DVRs, and why they disable so much functionality that the hardware would otherwise be capable of.


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## 356B

I agree, or for the most part do......I never considered myself a minority because I HAVE TO HAVE pip though, the 922 version is a little clunky I have to admit. Regardless I believe pip was developed for the sports addicts, news junkies, etc. and as a caveat it keeps the peace in many households by it's mere existence. The White House ready room has a screen with 6 channel capabilities, I personally would like to have that........
Back to the bugs and weirdness, I like the subtle stuff, I wondered why the Broadband icon went away in the header, I like to check on my billing from the screen, it worked once, now I get an error message, ( the 622 did the same thing) really lame. 
At first Dish on Demand was the new VOD's / PPV now it that old movie Dish on line stuff. 
I can understand the OTR frustrations but I live in the country, couldn't use it if I had it so I haven't had to deal with it. The Guide is goofy; First there was HD and SD combined, the instruction menu clearly showed HD as a independent fave list, now there's no HD favorite /default listed and no PPV as my 622 had. 
I suppose the point is you can go on and on about the short comings, anything can be picked to pieces, I have many personal expediences with that, but the fact remains the storage capabilities are bigger, the graphics are crisp and fresh, most Menu features work faster and better and for me the Sling works great...with a few minor issues (viewing my recordings, pausing can cause a freeze...or has). I have the 722 and by comparison, at least for me, there's no comparison. The 922 is and or will be a much better system presently and in the future, once the bugs get worked out....hopefully that actually happens, I remember the 622 having issue when it was launched too.


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## phrelin

IMHO as I read about the 922 development my reaction was "huh???"

Reading the threads here, there appear to be some problems with the 722k OTA function unresolved. And why develop some nifty new menu system in your initial rollout associating Dish with Slingbox? And....

If it had been me, I would have put the guts of a 722 into 722k box (to solve the heating issue), put the guts of a Slingbox HD Pro into the box, parallel wired the TV1 component video and RCA audio directly into the Slingbox guts and made the "722s" available as part of the VIP DVR offerings for a year with no upgrade charges for existing customers. No DVR software changes would have been required and people could attempt to cope with learning "Sling" on the huge variety of home networks that exist using the existing Slingbox web site and software.

That would have introduced and tested the TV Everywhere concept while continuing to develop the 922 where the TV Everywhere Sling output became an HD TV2 output. Any push to have new customers struggle with the 922 will be a disaster as you have to give reliable TV first.


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## Stewart Vernon

I like to think I'm as reasonable (in my expectations) as anyone... and I echo the thoughts that something should be what it is sold to be... advanced stuff notwithstanding.

I suspect there probably was pressure after 2+ years at CES, which likely means the 922 was in development at least 3 years... probably 4-5....

BUT, with that kind of lead-in and CES publicity, it just means it really really should work right out of the gate.

People are MUCH more forgiving if they hear about new technology and it comes out really soon... vs something that they've been hearing about for 2+ years and then comes out and doesn't do some basic stuff.

To my way of thinking... ALL the stuff that the ViP622/722/722K does should work at least as well on the 922. Existing bugs on those older receivers, I could expect them on the 922... but the 922 should at least do things as well as those.

Similarly, if the Sling built-in doesn't work at least as well as adding a Slingbox to your existing ViP receiver... it doesn't seem like a fully baked product.

Stuff like the Web browser, home media streaming, TV Everywhere, and the like... I could accept those are not available yet or not fully baked... but to my way of thinking there's just no excuse for a 922 not doing all the "old" stuff with the same or better reliability.

Imagine if you traded in your old car for a brand new car... and the brand new car had more problems than your old. You'd be ticked off... and yeah, I know it does happen... but there's no excuse for it.

I'm not just picking on Dish here, though... Every technology company it seems has a product they let go at some point before it is truly ready... and usually it backfires on them once the problems become public.


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## BattleZone

Notice that Dish isn't pushing very hard on the 922. It's mentioned obliquely, but they aren't running ads trying to get customers to upgrade or anything. There's a reason for that...


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## 356B

I suppose my expectations are low for most new things, your analogy to technology in general rings true to me. I'm a Mac person, but with all Apples bravado and hype they have yet to fix their wireless issues, shameful... The automotive comparison, how true, all one has to do is look to Toyota...deadly. I drive a 57 Chevy pickup to work, no computer problems there, only operator error.........
I believe it's inherent in the beast, this stuff has become so complicated that at some point it will not only eat it's young but itself. From their advertising campaigns Dish has made it perfectly clear they are out to own the market they play in. Most consumers are relatively ignorant of the issues discussed here, they like me see the pretty pictures and slick architecture, bells and whistles and enjoy the ride, I suppose I'm to easy. 
The issue of pushing the 922 in Dish ads is mute, to my knowledge they never pushed any of their DVRs or hardware that I saw, web pages maybe.....but not on tv, they sell programming and that's where the real money is. My installer several weeks ago told me I was the first 922 installed in Mendocino County he knew of, I wonder how many have been issued... nationwide. Change can be... and normally is hard, or as hard as you choose to make it. I can remember my father turning the antenna with a pipe wrench to get one of 3 snowy channels.........I suppose I'm to easy.


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## JM Anthony

Having been one of the 921 early adopters, I'm sitting on the sidelines for a while on this one. It is disappointing that E* didn't get more right with this initial rollout. It's not like they haven't gone through this before.

John


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## Alex03

zer0cool said:


> Last night, I had three timers going at 9 PM, one of which was not showing in the "My Recordings" screen, although looking at the daily schedule, it showed to be recording. The same issue occurred this past Tuesday.


After installing OTA module, timers said completed in Daily Schedule - but missing from My Recordings. Finally realized had to delete all OTA timers (not satellite only channel timers) and reschedule. To be safe I used the 6000 range where possible instead of map down. Now all timers operate correctly. Saturday I did 2 cable channels and 2 OTA (golf and derby) and had 4 timers recording correctly. There was a bug as unable to view the 4th recorded channel while it was being recorded (kept switching to 3rd recorded) - but not a critical problem.

Did have an issue with s1.05 where OTA Apprentice recorded with no audio. Will see if problem happens again after a reboot. First time I've had an audio loss. Also "Use as default" check-box in timer creation no longer works. e.g. limit to 5 recordings instead of 20 is never saved as a default for next timer set.

Otherwise 922 great for DVR size and user interface. Can't wait for EHD transfer option to work as DVR is 90% full and desperately need to archive some movies and series.


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## phatal

BattleZone said:


> Notice that Dish isn't pushing very hard on the 922. It's mentioned obliquely, but they aren't running ads trying to get customers to upgrade or anything. There's a reason for that...


That doesn't mean anything. None of the service providers (cable and sat) market their hardware as a consumer product. I've never seen a D*, Comcast, Time Warner, etc.... commercial touting their hardware. They only market the content of their service (programming).


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