# R22 being discontinued??!!



## xmguy

I read this on another thread here linking to a DirecTV forum. Stating that the R22 will no longer be available nation wide. Instead the R16 will be put in it's place. Is this true??!!

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10531394


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## miketorse

Reading the thread, it looks like "discontinued" is a strong word. Seems like it'll still be around, but "targeted" in MPEG4 SD local areas. Meaning, any other area, the installers will have newly manufactured R16's on their trucks.


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## kevinwmsn

To me it would make more sense to keep the R22 and kill the R16. The R22 will get DoD available,ethernet, mpeg4 which I believe the R16 doesn't do. I would think D* would want to start getting mpeg4 boxes deployed for down the line(years) to move all channels(SD included) to mpeg4.


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## RobertE

It's all about $$$$


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## The Merg

The software on the R22 is sooo much better than the software on the R15/R16. I really hope that isn't true. I would really like to get rid of my R15 at some point and get another R22.

- Merg


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## BattleZone

The R22 was never intended to be shipped nationwide; it was designed specifically for former 72.5 markets whose SD locals were moved to MPEG4 sats. Since it is really an HR21, it's more expensive to make than an R16.

I'd bet that someone 9 months ago decided to drop the R16 and use the R22 to get MPEG4 receivers out there (smart), but with the economy, that decision was reversed due to cost. It is unfortunate, though, because DirecTV will be better off in the long run by deploying MPEG4-compatible receivers now.


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## roadrunner1782

The Merg said:


> The software on the R22 is sooo much better than the software on the R15/R16. I really hope that isn't true. I would really like to get rid of my R15 at some point and get another R22.
> 
> - Merg


I have to seriously disagree with you on that! My R16-300 is the strongest, fastest, most solid D* ird I have in my fleet.


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## DaaQ

The R-22 was intended for markets that only get their locals in hd, so as to be able to provide the goal for local channels nationwide. From what I've heard those markets don't even install 18 dishes or standard irds at all anymore.

Also with no rf output on the R22 it is a real pain to hook them up on older tv sets that have no rca inputs.


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## texasbrit

DaaQ said:


> The R-22 was intended for markets that only get their locals in hd, so as to be able to provide the goal for local channels nationwide. From what I've heard those markets don't even install 18 dishes or standard irds at all anymore.
> 
> Also with no rf output on the R22 it is a real pain to hook them up on older tv sets that have no rca inputs.


The old 72.5 markets that were moved to 99/103 can't use the 18in dish or a standard IRD because those dishes and receivers can't receive 99/103. 
And when battlezone says the SD locals have been moved to 99/103 it's not really correct. What happens is that all the locals are on 99 or 103. Where a station has an HD signal, DirecTV delivers the HD signal and HD receivers recive this OK. But for people who only have an SD subscription, the R22 downconverts the HD signal to SD resolution so people think they are receiving an SD channel, but really there's only one signal. That's why you need an HD receiver like the H21/2/3, and an R22 (which is an HD box with HD disabled) to receive even "SD Locals" in those areas.


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## Jhon69

roadrunner1782 said:


> I have to seriously disagree with you on that! My R16-300 is the strongest, fastest, most solid D* ird I have in my fleet.


Does your R16's guide have the program's First Air Date like the R22?.Already know the R16 can't record 200 hours or be able to access the AM21,external HDD,MediaShare,VOD ect..Unless DirecTV takes over and does the software updates for the R16 and not NDS this is a huge step backwards.:nono2:


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## Stuart Sweet

I suspect that those who want an R22 will still be able to buy them through an online retailer. Please also understand that this move does not have any effect on you if you already have an R22. 

Finally, one must wonder, how many SD-only customers are just now getting DVRs? It has to be a fairly small number. Common sense would say that with the digital transition (finally) approaching, those who are still SD-only (and that's a lot of people, believe it or not) would be much more likely to make the jump to HD at the same time they make the jump to a DVR. 

Put another way, if you're still SD-only, and you wish to remain SD-only, how likely are you to be concerned with advanced features that require a network cable? People here on this site may fit that profile, but I doubt the average subscriber does.


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## GodisGreat79

I am glad I got mine when I did!!


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## Stuart Sweet

I'm glad you did too, but I don't expect a run on R22s. I'm sure they'll still be easy to get online.


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## harsh

roadrunner1782 said:


> My R16-300 is the strongest, fastest, most solid D* ird I have in my fleet.


In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

A claim like this begs for some perspective on what devices you're comparing the R16 including whether or not you've experienced the Plus HD DVR class machines.


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## bonscott87

Chase has also talked about the R22 being HD upgradable and offered that as a key feature in various investor calls so curious about this move.

Here is my take: I think DirecTV is finding the uptake on HD receivers much higher then they thought. They have stated in previous calls that nearly 50% of their customers have HD/DVR equipment so one can figure that most of those have MPEG4 equipment already (some SD DVR only people certainly).

Thus is most of their new customers and upgraders are getting HD MPEG4 equipment anyway the need for the R22 as a "transition" receiver that is HD upgradable becomes less since people are getting an HR2x as it is.

In this light, makes sense to me.


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## harsh

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm glad you did too, but I don't expect a run on R22s. I'm sure they'll still be easy to get online.


Given the recent hints that new Plus HD equipment seems to be getting harder to get, I'm not sure this is true.

One would think that the HR23 would be widely available online and in stores but it certainly isn't. The fact that people are not-so-infrequently seeing HR20s and HR21s installed contraindicates a glut of new hardware. Then again, maybe it just indicates a glut of returned equipment in the stream.


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## harsh

bonscott87 said:


> They have stated in previous calls that nearly 50% of their customers have HD/DVR equipment so one can figure that most of those have MPEG4 equipment already (some SD DVR only people certainly).


Are you certain that that's a reasonable thing to figure?

There is a pretty sizeable installed base of MPEG2 DVRs and while they look pretty awful on a modern HDTV, many can't afford the recurring service charges associated with getting a good selection of "true" HD programming.


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## miketorse

Jhon69 said:


> Does your R16's guide have the program's First Air Date like the R22?.Already know the R16 can't record 200 hours or be able to access the AM21,external HDD,MediaShare,VOD ect..Unless DirecTV takes over and does the software updates for the R16 and not NDS this is a huge step backwards.:nono2:


Plus you can't (yet?) setup a season pass online via the R15/16 models. I agree it's a step backward as far as software goes. It's about the $$ as another poster put it.


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## bonscott87

harsh said:


> Given the recent hints that new Plus HD equipment seems to be getting harder to get, I'm not sure this is true.
> 
> One would think that the HR23 would be widely available online and in stores but it certainly isn't. The fact that people are not-so-infrequently seeing HR20s and HR21s installed contraindicates a glut of new hardware. Then again, maybe it just indicates a glut of returned equipment in the stream.


Well, that is one of their keys to the leasing program. They can reuse the returned equipment and lower manufacturing costs by not having to make as many new boxes. Perhaps they have reached that point? Don't know.

One other thing we do know is that DirecTV is working on their new platform for next year so they could also already starting to draw down new inventory in anticipation of producing the next generation receivers next year. Again, who knows.


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## Stuart Sweet

harsh said:


> In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
> 
> A claim like this begs for some perspective on what devices you're comparing the R16 including whether or not you've experienced the Plus HD DVR class machines.





harsh said:


> Given the recent hints that new Plus HD equipment seems to be getting harder to get, I'm not sure this is true.
> 
> One would think that the HR23 would be widely available online and in stores but it certainly isn't. The fact that people are not-so-infrequently seeing HR20s and HR21s installed contraindicates a glut of new hardware. Then again, maybe it just indicates a glut of returned equipment in the stream.





harsh said:


> Are you certain that that's a reasonable thing to figure?
> 
> There is a pretty sizeable installed base of MPEG2 DVRs and while they look pretty awful on a modern HDTV, many can't afford the recurring service charges associated with getting a good selection of "true" HD programming.


Forgive me sir for answering your multiple posts with a single one.

First of all, excellent quote from _Minority Report._ I often repeat it to myself as I drive 15mph on the freeway while other lanes are going even slower. _Edit: Paulman's right... it's from Erasmus, but that shot of the guy with no eyes in the movie is cool._

As to the basic assumption which it references, I can only point out the dearth of posts concerning issues with the R16. It seems to be regarded as a very stable, back to basics DVR. It seems further that many people in other forums - you may have been one of them - claim that they would rather have a solid DVR with limited function than a full-featured media center that gives them problems. It seems to me that for SD customers, R16 is that product.

As for the availablility of the R22 DVR online, all I can say is there is not a current shortage of either R22s or HR2x receivers. I know that it's been frequently pointed out that HR23 receivers are hard to find online. The HR23 receiver is not the "latest and greatest" _per se_, it is feature-for-feature the same as the HR22. While it does not require BBCs, neither does an HR22 in a new setup (as SWM-enabled dishes are quite common in new installs.) As for those much-maligned BBC's, I am personally using the same ones on my HR21 that were provided with my first HR20 and they have never failed.

As for your assessment, "There is a pretty sizeable installed base of MPEG2 DVRs and while they look pretty awful on a modern HDTV, many can't afford the recurring service charges associated with getting a good selection of 'true' HD programming," very true but these people already have DVRs that are neither changed nor invalidated by DIRECTV's choice of new equipment, and it remains to be seen what these subscribers will do, and at what point they will choose to upgrade to HD. If their DVRs fail, they will be provided with a refurb, as they always have.


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## paulman182

Stuart Sweet said:


> First of all, excellent quote from _Minority Report._


My apologies, I know this is off-topic but it bugs me when I see a quote I heard many years ago attributed to something recent.

This saying originated with Desiderius Erasmus, an author who lived in the 1500s. As many times as I've seen "Minority Report" and as much as I like it, I had forgotten that the phrase was even in the movie.

Back to topic, my R22 is working great and used daily in the kitchen.


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## dmurphy

Stuart Sweet said:


> As to the basic assumption which it references, I can only point out the dearth of posts concerning issues with the R16. It seems to be regarded as a very stable, back to basics DVR. It seems further that many people in other forums - you may have been one of them - claim that they would rather have a solid DVR with limited function than a full-featured media center that gives them problems. It seems to me that for SD customer, R16 is that product.


Stuart - please excuse my piling on, but I feel the need to reiterate just how solid the R16 is.

It's - as you say - a basic DVR. It records, it plays back, it provides all of the functionality a DVR requires.

It's not a media center; it's not a 'digital hub' (to borrow a Jobsian term), but it's a great DVR.

I'm proud to have been part of the R16 field trial, and I'm even prouder of how the product has tracked over time. It's a workhorse in my house. We use it all the time. It just works - no nonsense. The R16 has earned every bit of its reputation.

A damned fine SD receiver, and if you're only looking for SD, it's really great at what it does.

There are a lot of households like mine, where maybe one or two TV's are HD, but there are several non-HD TV's. Unfortunately, I can't justify replacing all of my old tube TVs with HDTV's and HD DVR's quite yet - especially the ones like in my home office - the TV is only a 13".

For this purpose, I think SD will be with us for a long time. And hopefully, so will the R16.


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## djrobx

There's no reason you can't buy an HR2x and connect it to a standard def TV. If you really need mediashare, DoD and such, that's still an option.


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## sundude90

I think this is a dumb move. I don't like this idea at all. The R22's are so much better than the R15's in a billion ways. Bad Idea DIRECTV!!


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## xmguy

I was part of the R22-200 field trials. I loved the DVR so much I bought an R22-100 from Best Buy for my mom. She loves it. She uses MediaShare all the time. Plus the bigger HDD for more recording space is a must. I think D* is making a BIG mistake to remove the R22-100's from retail stores like Best Buy. Some want MORE than just the BASICS! Why can't BOTH co-exist. R16 for users who want just a basic SD DVR. The R22-XXX should be available for those who want it for the VOD, MediaShare MRV, DLB, etc...


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## Stuart Sweet

I agree, XMguy, some do want more than the basics. But would you not agree that the intersection of "those who want more than the basics" and "those who do not want HD" is sufficiently small that their needs can be served by online purchase?


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## LOCODUDE

I for one would be like a fish out of water without my trusty R22....Long live the 
R22!!!!..


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## Draconis

I also have a R22, and I do not live in a MPEG-4 local market. The big concern I have is if my R22-200 should ever fail. I do not want want a R15/16 as a replacement. 

I really hope DIRECTV will put something in the system to recognize the R22's and ship the appropriate replacement.


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## roadrunner1782

Jhon69 said:


> Does your R16's guide have the program's First Air Date like the R22?.Already know the R16 can't record 200 hours or be able to access the AM21,external HDD,MediaShare,VOD ect..Unless DirecTV takes over and does the software updates for the R16 and not NDS this is a huge step backwards.:nono2:


No it doesn't show a program's first air date. I don't even care about that although I'm sure some do. Is it a center piece for my home theatre, no that's what my HR22 is for. I have to say though a dvr was created to record shows and in MY personal experience no dvr does that better than my R16!


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## bonscott87

Well, on the DirecTV conference call this afternoon they make mention that over 60% of all customers take HD and HDDVR advanced products which is quite a bit higher then they have expected.

So my thoughts stand in that they probably feel an MPEG4 SD DVR is really an uneeded product now and that most people are getting the HR2x anyway. R22 stays around for those that need it in MPEG4 SD markets but so much of their sub base is getting the HR2x already that the R22 need is very short lived.


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## Jhon69

roadrunner1782 said:


> No it doesn't show a program's first air date. I don't even care about that although I'm sure some do. Is it a center piece for my home theatre, no that's what my HR22 is for. I have to say though a dvr was created to record shows and in MY personal experience no dvr does that better than my R16!


So your R16 does not have any issues with recording programs that are first runs only when you select that option to record?.How about series links any issues?.


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## harsh

I find Scott's argument compelling in that I too suspect that the R22 is just a "brained" HR21.

That being said, I think that the idea that they are cutting customers off from some of the excitement associated with features like VOD (promised for the R15 but never delivered in a substantial way), media share and perhaps even MRV.

At least the R16 can be part of a SWM install, but why should people who live in the tinier markets get nicer equipment?

We're not far off from when DIRECTV hinted that they would discontinue MPEG2-only equipment yet they're still actively installing dishes and receivers for that class of devices. Maybe they're throttling back that effort?


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## Jhon69

harsh said:


> I find Scott's argument compelling in that I too suspect that the R22 is just a "brained" HR21.
> 
> That being said, I think that the idea that they are cutting customers off from some of the excitement associated with features like VOD (promised for the R15 but never delivered in a substantial way), media share and perhaps even MRV.
> 
> At least the R16 can be part of a SWM install, but why should people who live in the tinier markets get nicer equipment?
> 
> We're not far off from when DIRECTV hinted that they would discontinue MPEG2-only equipment yet they're still actively installing dishes and receivers for that class of devices. Maybe they're throttling back that effort?


To reintroduce the R16,a MPEG2 SDDVR,think that answer is yes or DirecTV may still install that dish Slimline?.

Would also believe my local Best Buy will run out of R22s and R16s will be offered(I'm not in a MPEG4 SD locals area).


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## xmguy

Stuart Sweet said:


> I agree, XMguy, some do want more than the basics. But would you not agree that the intersection of "those who want more than the basics" and "those who do not want HD" is sufficiently small that their needs can be served by online purchase?


I agree slowing down production of the R22 if it's not a big seller would be advised. But still should be made but if on a small scale for that "middle of the road" user.


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## xmguy

Draconis said:


> I also have a R22, and I do not live in a MPEG-4 local market. The big concern I have is if my R22-200 should ever fail. I do not want want a R15/16 as a replacement.
> 
> I really hope DIRECTV will put something in the system to recognize the R22's and ship the appropriate replacement.


I agree 100%.


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## jimmyt

I seriously disagree with you.. lol.. the r16 does not hold a candle to the hr20/21.. 



roadrunner1782 said:


> I have to seriously disagree with you on that! My R16-300 is the strongest, fastest, most solid D* ird I have in my fleet.


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## jimmyt

same here.. and what about the rewind bug that wont let the video move faster then 2x when you are rewinding at 4x , what about when the time stamp at the bottom does not show so you have no idea where you are in playback..

r16 has a ways to go.. nowhere near the hr2X series..



Jhon69 said:


> So your R16 does not have any issues with recording programs that are first runs only when you select that option to record?.How about series links any issues?.


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## Huskie_2009

Stuart Sweet said:


> As for your assessment, "There is a pretty sizeable installed base of MPEG2 DVRs and while they look pretty awful on a modern HDTV, many can't afford the recurring service charges associated with getting a good selection of 'true' HD programming," very true but these people already have DVRs that are neither changed nor invalidated by DIRECTV's choice of new equipment, and it remains to be seen what these subscribers will do, and at what point they will choose to upgrade to HD. *If their DVRs fail, they will be provided with a refurb, as they always have.*


I must be one of the lucky ones. My dead R15 was replaced by DirecTv with an R22, no questions asked. It even smelled new. Maybe because I already have HD on my other box?

I'm loving the features of the R22. Although slower, I can do much more with it.


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## sundude90

If your reading this Directv, please reconsider this!!


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## dodge boy

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm glad you did too, but I don't expect a run on R22s. I'm sure they'll still be easy to get online.


I'm glad too, although my locals are MPEG4 I love my R22s.

Thanks Stu


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## dodge boy

I guess the rumor I heard about HD being made available on the R22 was way off...... Ohwell, it was only a D* CSR....


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## ThomasM

roadrunner1782 said:


> I have to seriously disagree with you on that! My R16-300 is the strongest, fastest, most solid D* ird I have in my fleet.


OMG, someone else disagreeing with The Merg besides me on the R15/16 vs R22 debate? 

Every day I use my 2 R15-300's (essentially the same as the R16 but no SWM support which I don't have anyway) and my R22-200 and I like the former more and more and the latter less and less. I have taken to calling the R22 "molassescripplevision" since it's slow as molasses changing channels, responding to remote commands and moving around the program guide-which contains advertising. Subscribers are forced to "put up with" the options that are locked (gray screen, no "cropped" option, etc.) hence "cripplevision".

To me this is wonderful news because now the NDS engineers have a reason to add features and continue developing the software for this platform (like maybe adding "30 second skip" among other things).

I'm a happy non-HDTV camper!!!


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## LOCODUDE

Well if D* is really going to cut back on production of the R22's I'll have to pay a little visit to Best Buy soon...


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## mhayes70

My wife and I acutally love our R22 over our R15. We don't have any major problems with it and love all the extra feature you get with the HR series DVR's.


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## carl6

dodge boy said:


> I guess the rumor I heard about HD being made available on the R22 was way off...... Ohwell, it was only a D* CSR....


At one point in time, there were definite plans to offer that upgrade (but a time frame was never indicated). I do not know if that is still a plan or not.


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## roadrunner1782

ThomasM said:


> OMG, someone else disagreeing with The Merg besides me on the R15/16 vs R22 debate?
> 
> Every day I use my 2 R15-300's (essentially the same as the R16 but no SWM support which I don't have anyway) and my R22-200 and I like the former more and more and the latter less and less. I have taken to calling the R22 "molassescripplevision" since it's slow as molasses changing channels, responding to remote commands and moving around the program guide-which contains advertising. Subscribers are forced to "put up with" the options that are locked (gray screen, no "cropped" option, etc.) hence "cripplevision".
> 
> To me this is wonderful news because now the NDS engineers have a reason to add features and continue developing the software for this platform (like maybe adding "30 second skip" among other things).
> 
> I'm a happy non-HDTV camper!!!


+1 Except I have HD too!


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## bikerpaul

With this being all said and done, is there some way to enable the HD on an R22?


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## miketorse

bikerpaul said:


> With this being all said and done, is there some way to enable the HD on an R22?


No.


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## carl6

bikerpaul said:


> With this being all said and done, is there some way to enable the HD on an R22?


Is it technically possible (for DirecTV) to do this? Yes.
Is there any way a regular consumer can get it done? No.
Will there ever be a way for a regular consumer to get it done? Unknown.


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## Jhon69

ThomasM said:


> OMG, someone else disagreeing with The Merg besides me on the R15/16 vs R22 debate?
> 
> Every day I use my 2 R15-300's (essentially the same as the R16 but no SWM support which I don't have anyway) and my R22-200 and I like the former more and more and the latter less and less. I have taken to calling the R22 "molassescripplevision" since it's slow as molasses changing channels, responding to remote commands and moving around the program guide-which contains advertising. Subscribers are forced to "put up with" the options that are locked (gray screen, no "cropped" option, etc.) hence "cripplevision".
> 
> To me this is wonderful news because now the NDS engineers have a reason to add features and continue developing the software for this platform (like maybe adding "30 second skip" among other things).
> 
> I'm a happy non-HDTV camper!!!


The only way I believe to make the R16 better is for the DirecTV software engineers to take over the maintenance and give the R16 the software updates it needs.Which would be the same guide information as the HR2xs and R22s,the features which would have to be a little different but there are several features that could be and should be added to the R16's features.


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## compnurd

This is a bad idea. You now also take away the ability for a MRV unit since it has no ethernet

But who knows, they may add a ethernet port to the R16


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## Jhon69

compnurd said:


> This is a bad idea. You now also take away the ability for a MRV unit since it has no ethernet
> 
> But who knows, they may add a ethernet port to the R16


Don't think so I believe that DirecTV's cost is too high for the R22s so unless you live in an MPEG4 Locals area(which what the R22 was originally designed for) you will have a to have an R16.Besides DirecTV is targeting the higher spending customers so maybe they think if the want it they can get an HR2x.


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## compnurd

Jhon69 said:


> Don't think so I believe that DirecTV's cost is too high for the R22s so unless you live in an MPEG4 Locals area(which what the R22 was originally designed for) you will have a to have an R16.Besides DirecTV is targeting the higher spending customers so maybe they think if the want it they can get an HR2x.


Cost high on some of the chips yes but adding a less then 5 dollar ethernet port is possible


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## Jhon69

compnurd said:


> Cost high on some of the chips yes but adding a less then 5 dollar ethernet port is possible


Possible?Yes.Practical?Doubt it.None of the NDS DVR products(R15/R16) have ethernet.Don't believe they will this is a push to get everyone on a HR2x.Except the areas where MPEG4 locals are concerned(which was the original intent for the R22s) blame it on the economy.


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## HoTat2

dodge boy said:


> I'm glad too, although my locals are MPEG4 *I love my R22s.*
> 
> Thanks Stu


In other respects maybe, I have no doubt. But how can you be truly happy with the R22's software locked-limitations in your situation, since when your locals convert to HD then the SD pictures will now only display as either letter-box with gray matte bars top and bottom, or even worse for up-converted 4:3 material broadcast in HD by a station, as window-boxed with gray matte bars above and below along with black pillars to either side?


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## Jhon69

HoTat2 said:


> In other respects maybe, I have no doubt. But how can you be truly happy with the R22's software locked-limitations in your situation, since when your locals convert to HD then the SD pictures will now only display as either letter-box with gray matte bars top and bottom, or even worse for up-converted 4:3 material broadcast in HD by a station, as window-boxed with gray matte bars above and below along with black pillars to either side?


I agree I don't see why DirecTV can't just give us this option it would make the ability to choose the right picture so much easier.

If NDS would add all the extra features that they could from the R22 to the R16 or let DirecTV take over the software upgrades of the R16(basically the same thing) then I wouldn't mind running a R16.But the way I see things is you have got the HR2xs,then the R22s(which are neutered) then the R16 which is even more neutered than the R22s when it comes to features.:sure:


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## su_A_ve

Darn - I just had to call to get my old tivo replaced. So would I get an R16 instead?

I thought the R22 was officially capable of getting content from the HR20 via network. Is that not the case?


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## The Merg

djrobx said:


> There's no reason you can't buy an HR2x and connect it to a standard def TV. If you really need mediashare, DoD and such, that's still an option.


The only issue with that is you have to pay for HD access when you activate the receiver. If you do not currently have HD service, as I don't, I am not going to pay and extra $100 for a receiver and then an extra $10/month for those features when I currently get it in my R22.

- Merg


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## Simmerman

OK. I am a day late and a dollar short chiming in on this.

I have installed plenty of R-15's R-16's and R-22's. I can say from my experience that the installation and repeat service call rate of the R-16 was better than both the R-15 and the R-22. Yes is does not have as many features as the R-22 but it just flat out works! 

I am a little underwhelmed by the R-22. I have seen alot of "dead out of box" on new installs, more so than is the norm for other receivers. It has been my experience that once an R-22 works for a month, you're probably going to be ok. I have an R-22 and I prefer the added features of it over the R-16 but I am one of those technical nerds ( wannabe anyways). 

From an installers point of view- He** yeah, bring back the R-16!


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## bobcamp1

Jhon69 said:


> The only way I believe to make the R16 better is for the DirecTV software engineers to take over the maintenance and give the R16 the software updates it needs.


That would be a tragic mistake. Feature creep killed the HRxxs, as it now takes a few seconds for the HR to react to most button pushes. Not to mention the fact that for many people, it can't perform its most basic function reliably.

It's all about reducing the level of customer support. I think between the new DirecTivo deal and this, D* has finally admitted that they aren't very good at building reliable DVRs. Most people would be happy with a simple DVR that just worked. The R16 fits that bill.

Unfortunately, I live in a 72.5 market so I would be forced to get the R22. When that happens, I'll probably jump ship to FIOS. The HRxx is going to make D* lose a 13-year customer.


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## Stuart Sweet

I don't think feature creep killed anything. In fact, when the HR20 came out, the major complaint was its lack of features! Not everyone likes Media Sharing or On Demand, but having those features does nothing to disguise the fact that my almost every metric, the HR2x series keeps improving. Are there performance issues still? Yes, and I promise you they're being dealt with whenever possible. 

bobcamp1, I hope they don't lose you as a customer, because you're valuable. It would be better to keep you and also attract 10 new customers who want advanced features.


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## LameLefty

bobcamp1 said:


> That would be a tragic mistake. Feature creep killed the HRxxs, as it now takes a few seconds for the HR to react to most button pushes. Not to mention the fact that for many people, it can't perform its most basic function reliably.


You should try an R22 before you complain. Works like a champ. Of course, my HR20, HR21, and HR22 all work fine too.


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## ThomasM

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't think feature creep killed anything. In fact, when the HR20 came out, the major complaint was its lack of features! Not everyone likes Media Sharing or On Demand, but having those features does nothing to disguise the fact that my almost every metric, the HR2x series keeps improving. Are there performance issues still? Yes, and I promise you they're being dealt with whenever possible.


I disagree. When I first got the R22 it responded to remote commands instantly. Nobody complained about moving around the program guide. But it didn't have a bunch of features it does now (many of which I can't talk about here, of course). Now it muddles along like a race car on a muddy track.

Yeah, those slick features are nifty-but it's a DVR and the R15 runs circles around it performance-wise when considering "the basics": Remote command response; moving around the various lists & menus; overall speed.


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## LameLefty

ThomasM said:


> Yeah, those slick features are nifty-but it's a DVR and the R15 runs circles around it performance-wise when considering "the basics": Remote command response; moving around the various lists & menus; overall speed.


Then yours is broken. I have an R15-500 and the R22 is just as fast, has a bigger recording capacity, and is on all counts a far more capable DVR.


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## roadrunner1782

LameLefty said:


> Then yours is broken. I have an R15-500 and the R22 is just as fast, has a bigger recording capacity, and is on all counts a far more capable DVR.


I don't think his is broken. My buddy has an R22 and it is just as sluggish as my HR22-100! Everytime he comes to my house and tinkers around with my R16 he always asks me why it is so much faster than his dvr. Now I will admit that the R22 is far more capable than the R15, R16 but it's definitely not as fast.


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## carl6

I continue to be amazed in this new world of instant gratification when a delay of a few seconds seems to be ruining people's lives. Slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy all the great things life has to offer.

I have an R15, R16, R22, HR20, HR21 and HR22. They all seem roughly equally responsive to me. None are slow or sluggish to the point it is the least bit bothersome.


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## The Merg

I would agree that the my R22-100 is a bit more sluggish than my R15-300. When moving through my playlist on the R22, I have to consciously wait for the highlight to move from show to show, while on the R15 button presses are immediately seen. Now this could also be because I am using RF on the R22 and IR on the R15.

Despite this and the other crippled aspects of the R22, I find the R22 to be extremely feature rich compared to the R15/R16. Even some of the smaller features in the R22 make the sluggishness I've found to be well worth the tradeoff (30 second skip, red button delete of a whole playlist folder, DOD).

- Merg


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## LOCODUDE

The Merg said:


> I would agree that the my R22-100 is a bit more sluggish than my R15-300. When moving through my playlist on the R22, I have to consciously wait for the highlight to move from show to show, while on the R15 button presses are immediately seen. Now this could also be because I am using RF on the R22 and IR on the R15.
> 
> Despite this and the other crippled aspects of the R22, I find the R22 to be extremely feature rich compared to the R15/R16. Even some of the smaller features in the R22 make the sluggishness I've found to be well worth the tradeoff (30 second skip, red button delete of a whole playlist folder, DOD).
> 
> - Merg


I agree the R22-100, as much as I love this receiver is somewhat sluggish in comparison to the R15. However that being said, I wouldn't trade my R22 for a R15 in a million years.....


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## The Merg

LOCODUDE said:


> I agree the R22-100, as much as I love this receiver is somewhat sluggish in comparison to the R15. However that being said, I wouldn't trade my R22 for a R15 in a million years.....


INDEED.... 

- Merg


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## roadrunner1782

carl6 said:


> I continue to be amazed in this new world of instant gratification when a delay of a few seconds seems to be ruining people's lives. Slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy all the great things life has to offer.
> 
> I have an R15, R16, R22, HR20, HR21 and HR22. They all seem roughly equally responsive to me. None are slow or sluggish to the point it is the least bit bothersome.


I wanna trade my HR22 with yours! I can't even put in a channel number and get it right since it is so slow to respond sometimes. For example, I wanna watch the NFL Network, ok I hit 2-1-2. The screen shows 2 then boink and says channel not available. Huh? I pushed 2-1-2 not just 2. Very frustrating!


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## carl6

roadrunner1782 said:


> I wanna trade my HR22 with yours! I can't even put in a channel number and get it right since it is so slow to respond sometimes. For example, I wanna watch the NFL Network, ok I hit 2-1-2. The screen shows 2 then boink and says channel not available. Huh? I pushed 2-1-2 not just 2. Very frustrating!


Obviously not normal behavior. I'm going to assume you have ruled out all the typical/common possible culprits, such as batteries in the remote, trying IR instead of RF or vice-versa, using a different remote, turning off any non-incandescent lights in the room (compact flourescent, led, etc.), tv backlight or mood light, etc. If you have not already ruled those types of things out as the possible source of remote problems, then you should look into them. If you have, then it is time to dig deeper.


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## roadrunner1782

carl6 said:


> Obviously not normal behavior. I'm going to assume you have ruled out all the typical/common possible culprits, such as batteries in the remote, trying IR instead of RF or vice-versa, using a different remote, turning off any non-incandescent lights in the room (compact flourescent, led, etc.), tv backlight or mood light, etc. If you have not already ruled those types of things out as the possible source of remote problems, then you should look into them. If you have, then it is time to dig deeper.


Time to dig deeper then! Now don't get me wrong it doesn't always do that when entering a channel number, but enough it gets aggrevating! RF instead of IR buy the way, and I did check to see if that was problem.


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## ThomasM

The Merg said:


> I would agree that the my R22-100 is a bit more sluggish than my R15-300. When moving through my playlist on the R22, I have to consciously wait for the highlight to move from show to show, while on the R15 button presses are immediately seen. Now this could also be because I am using RF on the R22 and IR on the R15.
> 
> - Merg


No, I'm using IR on both the R15 & R22 and the R22 still is the tortoise and the R15 is the hare. I NEVER use double-dash anymore to delete things on the R22 because in the past I did not know the thing was a couple lines above the show I really wanted to delete! And if you like surfing channels to see what's on by pressing the Page Up/Page Down key, the first show you sample will be over by the time you get to the end of your favorites list! :lol:


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## PHL

This is just sheer speculation on my part, but has anyone considered that D* might be preparing to lower the price on the HR-2x?

Let's say that D* has already decided to halt production of the R22. They have enough inventory on-hand or in the production queue to to last for 3 months (let's say). By restricting their deployment to mpeg-4 markets they might be able to stretch that to 6 months. Then, sometime in those 6 months, they drop the HR2x to $99. At that price point, there really isn't any need for an R-22 model any more since most people would probably just opt for an HR even if they are putting it onto an SD set. 

Also, I think HDTV's are reaching a price point where most people (who subscribe to cable or satellite) are seriously looking at replacing their most of their old SD sets with new HD sets. A 32" LCD suitable for a bedroom or den will soon be available for less than $300. A market for used LCD's will probably blossom as many early adopters start having more HDTV's than they have rooms. 

All in all, I think that a SD DVR just doesn't make sense in the long term, so D* is pulling the plug. The R16 is just a cheap stopgap until the transition takes place. And if the R16 is lacking in features relative to the HR2x, then what better way to encourage everyone to upgrade all their equipment to HD.

Again, this is just a SWAG.


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## Milkman

As many people have stated here, I am disappointed with the repeating bugs on R16-300. I actually haven't been able to download a CE for it in the last couple of cycles, but I read the issues, and the same bugs are there time after time. The RRx4 bug is annoying. No 30Skip is annoying as well.

It is a neat box, but the fact that the repeating bugs are there time after time, gets old (bugs that affect every day operation).


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## The Merg

PHL said:


> At that price point, there really isn't any need for an R-22 model any more since most people would probably just opt for an HR even if they are putting it onto an SD set.


I don't know about that... Even though I have I currently have SD receivers (and have one older HD-ready TV), I don't want to get an HD receiver with them--the reason is that when you get activate an HD receiver, you also need to subscribe to HD service for an additional $10/month.

- Merg


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## LOCODUDE

PHL said:


> This is just sheer speculation on my part, but has anyone considered that D* might be preparing to lower the price on the HR-2x?
> 
> Let's say that D* has already decided to halt production of the R22. They have enough inventory on-hand or in the production queue to to last for 3 months (let's say). By restricting their deployment to mpeg-4 markets they might be able to stretch that to 6 months. Then, sometime in those 6 months, they drop the HR2x to $99. At that price point, there really isn't any need for an R-22 model any more since most people would probably just opt for an HR even if they are putting it onto an SD set.
> 
> Also, I think HDTV's are reaching a price point where most people (who subscribe to cable or satellite) are seriously looking at replacing their most of their old SD sets with new HD sets. A 32" LCD suitable for a bedroom or den will soon be available for less than $300. A market for used LCD's will probably blossom as many early adopters start having more HDTV's than they have rooms.
> 
> All in all, I think that a SD DVR just doesn't make sense in the long term, so D* is pulling the plug. The R16 is just a cheap stopgap until the transition takes place. And if the R16 is lacking in features relative to the HR2x, then what better way to encourage everyone to upgrade all their equipment to HD.
> 
> Again, this is just a SWAG.


you may have a very valid point.......Indeed..


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## miketorse

Update: http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10544512

Looks like the R22 is going away quicker than we thought.


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## dave29

miketorse said:


> Update: http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10544512
> 
> Looks like the R22 is going away quicker than we thought.


Interesting. I wonder if the will get an HR2x, at the R22 price.


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## miketorse

dave29 said:


> Interesting. I wonder if the will get an HR2x, at the R22 price.


That's the thing! You have HD service, and order a SD DVR upgrade, you get a HD DVR by default! Nobody is going to lease a HD DVR in those markets if they know that!


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## RobertE

miketorse said:


> That's the thing! You have HD service, and order a SD DVR upgrade, you get a HD DVR by default! Nobody is going to lease a HD DVR in those markets if they know that!


I don't see any reason why DirecTv couldn't disable the HD on the HR2x box, then charge a enabling fee if/when the time comes.


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## The Merg

RobertE said:


> I don't see any reason why DirecTv couldn't disable the HD on the HR2x box, then charge a enabling fee if/when the time comes.


That was supposedly the idea behind the R22 as it is essentially an HR22 with the HD capabilities disabled.

I think the real question comes up if you have SD service and order a new SD-DVR when you live in the areas that require an MPEG-4 receiver since you will not get an R22 and will get an HD-DVR. Since the subscriber agreement for an HD-DVR activation currently requires subscribing to the HD service for $10/month, are they going to be requiring those subsribers to upgrade to HD service? This can become a huge issue for subscibers if the subscriber does not have any HD televisions as it would essentially be a $10 increase to their monthly fee.

It would be interesting to see if the subscriber agreement changes on June 17th to accomodate this new situation.

- Merg


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## roadrunner1782

I can see many possible problems that could arise with Directv doing all this. However, I have to think that they have a plan in place and are well aware of what might occur.


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## dodge boy

I own 3 R22s and have the PP, if 1 of then dies, what will they do? I'd rather have an Owned R22 than a leased HR2* on an SD TV........

Oh wait no more grey bars....


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## miketorse

roadrunner1782 said:


> I can see many possible problems that could arise with Directv doing all this. However, I have to think that they have a plan in place and are well aware of what might occur.


I hope you are right. Although, I would've thought they had a plan in place when giving HD receivers for SD only without a "Hide HD Duplicates" feature in the software.


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## The Merg

dodge boy said:


> I own 3 R22s and have the PP, if 1 of then dies, what will they do? I'd rather have an Owned R22 than a leased HR2* on an SD TV........
> 
> Oh wait no more grey bars....


Shhh... Don't tell ThomasM...

As for your situation, if one of your R22's dies and is replaced under the PP, your new HR2x would still be listed as owned.

- Merg


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> I own 3 R22s and have the PP, if 1 of then dies, what will they do? I'd rather have an Owned R22 than a leased HR2* on an SD TV........
> 
> *Oh wait no more grey bars*....


Indeed.........


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## HRJustin

I cant believe this after all the trouble I went through try to get an HD DVR instead of the r22 for the local72swap. The rep I talked to when scheduling the equipment swap back in Feburary told me I could pay $99 dollars to have an HD DVR installed. So I had the $99 dvr upgrade fee charged to our account. Instead the installer brought an R22 when I scheduled to swap out the equipment. I didnt have an HDTV at the time but wanted to have the HD DVR to be ready for a new TV. Since we didnt and still dont have an HDTV it really didnt matter. I just called in and they seen the $99 upgrade fee was wrong and all they would do is credit the money back. 

If I could have gotten the HD DVR when I had equipment swapped I would already have an HDTV by now. Since they didnt install the HD DVR right then I havent really been worried about getting an HDTV just to have to pay to upgrade to an HR series HD DVR. 

Now if I just would have waited to have the equipment swapped after June 17th I would have gotten an HD DVR by default. I hope they release an update or something for the r22 to make it HD. Maybe they will allow the R22 to be swapped out for an HR series HD DVR?? Its bogus that I paid $99 to get an HD DVR just to have it refunded back towards the next few bills.


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## dishrich

RobertE said:


> I don't see any reason why DirecTv couldn't disable the HD on the HR2x box, then charge a enabling fee if/when the time comes.


Exactly - NO different than what DISH is doing with it's Eastern Arc markets that require all MPEG4 equipment. Since the only MPEG4 equipment they have are all HD, they just disable the HD & do NOT charge the HD fee.

And I am DEFINITELY glad they finally are doing this, since it's BS that when those R22 downconvert all those HD locals to SD, they did NOT enable a zoom setting so that these locals don't look like a postage stamp on 4:3 TV's - which was what these R22 were intended for all along!


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## Shades228

Since there seems to be some confusion. R22's are not being replaced by HR models. They are only using R22's in mpeg 4 markets. This does not mean that R22's are disappearing.


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## miketorse

Shades228 said:


> Since there seems to be some confusion. R22's are not being replaced by HR models. They are only using R22's in mpeg 4 markets. This does not mean that R22's are disappearing.


http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10544512


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## xmguy

I'm just glad I bought my mom the R22-100 from Best Buy when I did. I could never go back to an R15/R16 "NORMAL" DVR. I'd loose MRV, VOD, MEDIA SHARE. All the goodies that go with it. I just hope if my R22's ever go out D* will swap me into a HR2x with HD deactivated and not give me a R15/R16 DVR. Because I get all my channels on the 101 sat.


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## dodge boy

This is sad as now we are stuck with the grey bars and no HD on it forever....


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## xmguy

dodge boy said:


> This is sad as now we are stuck with the grey bars and no HD on it forever....


I don't care about HD. But it does probably mean that the screen functions like what you've mentioned will not be addressed.


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## dseang21

So i'm still confused. I live in the "72.5" market, and according to the link from miketorse, They are no longer going to be installing r22 in the 72.5 market. Shades228's clarification implies that they will still use the r22 in the "mpeg4" markets. Maybe I'm miss informed, but isn't 72.5 and mpeg4 market the same? I've gone round and round with tech support about the STUPID GRAY BARS a few times with tech support, so i'm curious what the real answer is...


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## miketorse

dseang21 said:


> So i'm still confused. I live in the "72.5" market, and according to the link from miketorse, They are no longer going to be installing r22 in the 72.5 market. Shades228's clarification implies that they will still use the r22 in the "mpeg4" markets. Maybe I'm miss informed, but isn't 72.5 and mpeg4 market the same? I've gone round and round with tech support about the STUPID GRAY BARS a few times with tech support, so i'm curious what the real answer is...


A few weeks ago, there was notice from DirecTV that R22's would only be used from the HSP's in the 72.5/MPEG4 Local area (same thing) and no longer available nationwide.

Then, last week, another notice was sent (in the link) that R22's would stopped being used in favor of HD DVR's in the 72.5 markets. Two different announcements a few weeks (maybe a month?) apart.


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## denvertrakker

I'm confused about this "grey bars" business.

I have an R22 connected to a Samsung DLP (HLR-4667).

No grey bars. Looks freakin' gorgeous, to the point I doubt I'll upgrade to HD anytime soon.


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## miketorse

denvertrakker said:


> I'm confused about this "grey bars" business.
> 
> I have an R22 connected to a Samsung DLP (HLR-4667).
> 
> No grey bars. Looks freakin' gorgeous, to the point I doubt I'll upgrade to HD anytime soon.


Simply, in the MPEG4 SD local markets the R22 is taking the HD local signal from satellites 103 or 99 and showing the HD station as a SD signal. Because the signal is 16:9 the receiver needs to add bars to those channels. Either top/bottom for a letter box or right/left for "centercut". The bars are gray because that is default in the software and unable to be changed because that's in the HD portion of the software that is not accessible.


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## dodge boy

denvertrakker said:


> I'm confused about this "grey bars" business.
> 
> I have an R22 connected to a Samsung DLP (HLR-4667).
> 
> No grey bars. Looks freakin' gorgeous, to the point I doubt I'll upgrade to HD anytime soon.


Hook it up to a 4:3 tv and set it for 4:3 and see what it does to your locals.... It puts bars on the sides and they are grey.... you can not zoom the picture... The only option is to set it 16:9 then when you switch to a non HD channel you need to switch bck to 4:3.

Just change your TV format under the menu on the DVR for 2 seconds you'll see them.


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## denvertrakker

So, this is a problem only in MPEG4 markets? I guess Denver local isn't one, then, because originally I had the R22 hooked up to an old 4:3 Toshiba 20" CRT. No bars there either.


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## dishrich

denvertrakker said:


> So, this is a problem only in MPEG4 markets? I guess Denver local isn't one, then, because originally I had the R22 hooked up to an old 4:3 Toshiba 20" CRT. No bars there either.


Correct - because in the non-MPEG4 markets, the R22 is NOT even sent the guide/mapping data for the MPEG4 locals. They ONLY see the legacy SD locals on 101 or 119.


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## DesertFlyer

miketorse said:


> Simply, in the MPEG4 SD local markets the R22 is taking the HD local signal from satellites 103 or 99 and showing the HD station as a SD signal. Because the signal is 16:9 the receiver needs to add bars to those channels. Either top/bottom for a letter box or right/left for "centercut". The bars are gray because that is default in the software and unable to be changed because that's in the HD portion of the software that is not accessible.


This is driving my mom crazy with KMIR in Palm Springs. She cannot stand those light grey lines and there is also no ability to crop or change the color because of the software lockdown. Very frustrating.


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## dishrich

DesertFlyer said:


> This is driving my mom crazy with KMIR in Palm Springs. She cannot stand those light grey lines and there is also no ability to crop or change the color because of the software lockdown. Very frustrating.


I would agree - maybe she (or you) should try calling D* & pitching a ***** about it. Maybe they might swap her over to an HR2x box at no charge.

Along those lines - she could also call in for a FREE HD box upgrade, keep the HD access on for a month or two, then shut it off. They will NOT swap the new box back.

Either way, this would solve her problem...


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## ThomasM

The Merg said:


> Shhh... Don't tell ThomasM...
> 
> As for your situation, if one of your R22's dies and is replaced under the PP, your new HR2x would still be listed as owned.
> 
> - Merg


HARUMPH! 

Well, I can't complain TOO much about my R22. The price was right. And if my locals ever go to MPEG4-only and I can't get rid of those gray bars my computer can always use a 320Gbyte drive!


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## ThomasM

denvertrakker said:


> So, this is a problem only in MPEG4 markets? I guess Denver local isn't one, then, because originally I had the R22 hooked up to an old 4:3 Toshiba 20" CRT. No bars there either.


Not exactly. If you purchase an AM-21 OTA tuner for your R22 and watch an OTA station that is transmitting a 16:9 signal you also get stuck with the bars. If the station is transmitting a 4:3 signal (like most sub channels) no bars.

I always enjoy the discussions between the so-called "purists" and those that just want to watch TV. First it was "letterbox" movies where you got huge black bars and a tiny image so you "didn't miss any of the picture". Uh-huh.

Now it's 16:9, 4:3, and more bars-although not as big as with letterbox movies. You are stuck with the bars on the top & bottom of many networks when watching in 4:3 from the 101. People put up with it. But a postage-stamp picture in the center of the screen with bars on all 4 sides? Nope. But that's what you get from an R22 when it's tuned to an MPEG4 feed and the station is sending out a 4:3 program with their digital transmitter set to 16:9. And two of the bars are obnoxious GRAY!

Apparently, all the complaining to CSR's in MPEG4 local markets from folks without HD has killed the R22. I know I'd cancel DirecTV in a heartbeat if that was my option!


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## denvertrakker

No OTA for me - I'm 100+ miles from Denver. Maybe that's a good thing!


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## xmguy

ThomasM said:


> Not exactly. If you purchase an AM-21 OTA tuner for your R22 and watch an OTA station that is transmitting a 16:9 signal you also get stuck with the bars. If the station is transmitting a 4:3 signal (like most sub channels) no bars.
> 
> I always enjoy the discussions between the so-called "purists" and those that just want to watch TV. First it was "letterbox" movies where you got huge black bars and a tiny image so you "didn't miss any of the picture". Uh-huh.
> 
> Now it's 16:9, 4:3, and more bars-although not as big as with letterbox movies. You are stuck with the bars on the top & bottom of many networks when watching in 4:3 from the 101. People put up with it. But a postage-stamp picture in the center of the screen with bars on all 4 sides? Nope. But that's what you get from an R22 when it's tuned to an MPEG4 feed and the station is sending out a 4:3 program with their digital transmitter set to 16:9. And two of the bars are obnoxious GRAY!
> 
> Apparently, all the complaining to CSR's in MPEG4 local markets from folks without HD has killed the R22. I know I'd cancel DirecTV in a heartbeat if that was my option!


Yes I hear you. I can't stand the gray bars. While none of my channels (Nashville, TN DMA) is broadcasting in 16:9 (YET!). When I watch Hulu via PlayOn in Media Share I get the ANNOYING gray bars. I've seen the 4:3 to 16:9 to 4:3 conversion on my DTV converter. Its annoying as hell and those bars are black!! I guess they do that re-converting to get people to get HDTV. By damn it must be working! The Networks are like Hulu, They're out to destory the world of SDTV and FORCE people who want good quality TV at 4:3 (because I don't care for HD, I can watch 720P HD on Hulu and don't) to go HD and get the plasmas and LCDs and buy all the packages of HD that go with!!! HA, (rant)


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