# New/TV Surround sound Question



## fingerstyle

My current TV is a big old ( 7+years) projection set. It is hooked to my surround sound system. The sound is OK but not great and I wonder if that's due in part to the "sound processing stuff" in the TV.

I'm replace this TV soon-will the new TV with new technology have a difference or is the audio signal just passed through?


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## davring

Try connecting your sound system directly to your receiver and see if there is an improvement/change in the quality.


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## fingerstyle

Thanks for the quick response but I'm not sure what you mean. I have the audio outputs from the TV going directly to the receiver.


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## MysteryMan

Connect the audio from your DirecTV receiver to your a/v receiver.


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## davring

MysteryMan said:


> Connect the audio from your DirecTV receiver to your a/v receiver.


Thanks I knew what I meant.


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## fingerstyle

Tried that...The sound is better going directly from DTV box to Audio receiver but I lose the ability to control volume with the DTV remote and because of the configuration of the room the audio receiver is behind me. 

Still wondering if a new TV will effect the quality of sound.


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## spartanstew

I doubt it, but you as others alluded to, using the sound out from your TV is a bad idea to begin with. Spend $50 - $100 and get a universal remote.


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## John Williams

As a rule of thumb, you do NOT connect the audio out from the TV to your audio surround receiver. The only exception to this is for built in apps and/or tuner being used in the TV.
Bad things usually happen to the audio signal trying to route it this way.

As far as control. If you have a TV, audio amp, and a source component (i.e. cable, sat, DVD, etc...). Then a universal remote is a given! You are shooting yourself in the foot without one. Case in point: trying to hook things up in a detrimental manner to performnace, just to make a silly DirecTV remote work everything.


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## John Williams

As a side note (and I know it's because your original question had nothing to do with it): You haven't really told us anything about your setup. Being this is obviously a very DIY setup, I'm concerned you have a lot more wrong in your setup than just the above.
If you want some professional advice on the whole setup, just post everything. Everything being what equipment is being used, it's location, and how it's hooked up.


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## fingerstyle

Thanks to all...I went back again and hooked the Audio receiver directly to the HR 20 DTV box. Big difference in sound. Today I will try using an A/B box to see if I can tie in the DVD player. The audio receiver is a Sony..the DTV remote works the box/tv/receiver-what else would I need?


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## dmspen

Is the Sony a STEREO or Audio/Video (A/V) receiver? You said 'surround' so assume it's an AV receiver.
A/V receivers generally have places to connect up DVD players so your switching is done via the receiver. There would be a single video output to the TV.

If you don't want a universal remote, you could consider a IR extender for the receiver. It would move the IR input to somewhere in front or near you.


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## fingerstyle

Yes sorry Sony AV . Because of room configuration TV and receiver aren't near each other. All wiring goes infer the floor and back up to receiver on other side of room. A/B box seems to be the solution


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## spartanstew

Can't you put the DVD player back by the receiver?

As to what else you would need, a universal remote would allow you to access the DVD player as well (and anything else you own).


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## fingerstyle

I could move it but that would mean running video lines back to the TV. I have an A/B box That should work


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## spartanstew

So, the directv receiver, TV, and DVD player are together, but your AV Receiver is across the room?


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## fingerstyle

Yes. Had to be done that way.


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## Cholly

From the conversation so far, it appears you have an A/V receiver that is not located by the TV and other equipment. That is giving you trouble from the get-bo.
Also, you've been asked to list your equipment. As previously stated, make and model number is what we're asking you for. That helps us give informed answers to your questions.
Ideally, with a home theater system,all components should be located together, with the obvious exceptions of speakers and a projector. If your receiver is located across the room from the rest of your system, you are forced to use long cables, which degrade sound and/or video quality.
Start over again, listing all your components.


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## fingerstyle

Yup I get the long cables mean loss of signal part but for several reasons putting the receiver ( and other stuff like CD player turntable) on the other side of the room was the only way to do this and have anything at all..

All I am looking for is the best sound I can get with what I am dealing with.

The DTV box is an HR20-700, Receiver is Sony STR-DE898- As I said the TV is being replaced soon but I do not know what it will be. Speakers are Polk Audio except for Sub Woofer

Using an A?B box to switch between TV and DVD is not a problem


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## spartanstew

What cables do you currently have going from the back of the room to the front of the room?


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## fingerstyle

Coax .......


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## spartanstew

The Directv Receiver and DVD player are connected to your AV Receiver with Coax?


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## fingerstyle

I have coax running from the TV to the receiver. I had hoped to try the A/B box today by that didn't work out. Then the audio will run from DTV box to A/B box then coax back to receiver.


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## John Williams

fingerstyle said:


> I have coax running from the TV to the receiver. I had hoped to try the A/B box today by that didn't work out. Then the audio will run from DTV box to A/B box then coax back to receiver.


At this point I'll say that you have no idea what you are doing. Your system is wired wrong, setup wrong, and needs to be redone (from scratch). And I'll say that it is beyond your ability to do it.
You really need to hire a pro but since you won't even spend the money on a much needed remote, you certainly are not going to pay money to a professional to do it right.

http://makeitright.ca/

You say "you want the best sound". But that's not true, you seem to want the cheapest price and easiest hookup. The two are always mutually exclusive!

The solution for you here is: 
Rig everything up till you can get video and audio and then be happy with it. You will not miss the ease of use and performance that having it done right would bring. Because doing it right does cost quite a bit of money (to one unwilling to spend it) and is very complicated to install and program (for the average person).


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## harsh

John Williams said:


> You say "you want the best sound". But that's not true, you seem to want the cheapest price and easiest hookup. The two are always mutually exclusive!


It is only impossible if you demand to meet impossible conditions. Kind of like demanding that you want to drive from the passenger seat of your car but you can only use rubber bands from your daily newspaper and spent straws and popsicle sticks to make it happen.

Depending on the equipment involved, it may be possible (though incredibly difficult and likely expensive) to remote the AVR. It would likely involve the use of a coaxial digital audio cable and maybe MacGyvering a mirror to the wall behind the TV to reflect the IR remote signal.

The secret lies in recognizing what must be done and not summarily ruling it out because you lack the creativity or experience to figure it out.

The biggest deficit is the OP's firm avoidance of sharing make and model information. It could be that the equipment has the ability to do what is necessary built it but we cannot make any such assumptions.


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## Cholly

fingerstyle said:


> Yup I get the long cables mean loss of signal part but for several reasons putting the receiver ( and other stuff like CD player turntable) on the other side of the room was the only way to do this and have anything at all..
> 
> All I am looking for is the best sound I can get with what I am dealing with.
> 
> The DTV box is an HR20-700, Receiver is Sony STR-DE898- As I said the TV is being replaced soon but I do not know what it will be. Speakers are Polk Audio except for Sub Woofer
> 
> Using an A?B box to switch between TV and DVD is not a problem


Don't you have any room by the TV for your A/V equipment? If not, I'd suggest you delay any further work on this project until you replace your TV. Then either wall mount your new TV or place it on an equipment stand which can hold your AVR, satellite box, turntable and DVD player. You'll find it to be a lot less complicated and easier to install and use. In my MBR, I have a42 inch LCD TV mounted on a Z-line 3 chelf equipment stand, which is holding a Pioneer AVR, Ion turntable, Insignia HD Radio tuner, TiVo Premier DVR, Wii, Kodak Home Theater, Roku, Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player, Toshiba HD DVD player and Panasonic VCR/DVD Recorder and still have space. My center channel speaker is on a small shelf I mounted below the TV on the TV support.

My damily room has a stand mounted 55 inch Sony RPTV, with an adjacent vertical equipment rack holding other components. my center channel speaker is on the stand, with remaining space being occupied by my grandkids' board games. :lol:


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## John Williams

You guys are missing the point.
His room is wired with all the speaker wires located in the rear, that's why is A/V receiver is located there. He does not want to go thru the labor and expense of moving all the speaker wires to the location up front with the rest of the A/V equipment (and maybe there isn't room either?).
He could locate all his source equipment where the A/V receiver is, but that also would require pulling more wire from there to TV (and depending on length and how the wire has to run - baluns). Again, labor and expense he doesn't want to spend.

It is what it is, until he wants to get more serious with his setup.


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## spartanstew

Well, if all of his speaker wire is in the rear, how is he getting sound to his L/R/C? I would think the speaker wire must run from the rear to the front for that, no? Could easily change the direction of those to connect to an AVR up front and have those speaker wires feed the rears - if that's the case.


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## fingerstyle

I didn't mean for this to become a major discussion and I apologize for not being as clear as some wanted.

Because of the configuration of room ( and that the stereo equipment was there before the TV) The TV and the receiver are about 10-12 feet apart in a straight line. 2 Rear speakers were wired in place during a room remodel and those lines run through the walls, and under the floor and back to receiver.

Wires to center and sub woofer go from receiver under the floor and come back up behind TV. L&R front speaker wires are under the floor from receiver and come up at the speakers.

The 2 audio lines now run from A/B box under the floor and back up to the receiver.

Everything works and the sound is better than it was a couple of days ago. When I get the new TV it may, or may not, be viable to move stereo equipment to the same stand as TV. It is not a question of money or putting in the effort. It just may not work.

I understand that there is some line loss because of the length of the runs but I have to wonder how noticeable it is. 

There are limitations in the room that will eventually determine what happens here. I accept that I will not have the best sound experience but I would like the best possible sound based on what I have to work with.


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## spartanstew

*Because of the configuration of room ( and that the stereo equipment was there before the TV) The TV and the receiver are about 10-12 feet apart in a straight line. 2 Rear speakers were wired in place during a room remodel and those lines run through the walls, and under the floor and back to receiver.

Wires to center and sub woofer go from receiver under the floor and come back up behind TV. L&R front speaker wires are under the floor from receiver and come up at the speakers.*

That being said, couldn't you have your A/V receiver with your TV? You could connect the center, sub and L/R speakers directly to the A/V receiver, and use the current speaker wire that goes to the back of the room for your rears (even if you have to splice)?

Might make things much simpler.


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## fingerstyle

It might .......but would there be enough of a difference in sound quality to make it worth doing?


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## Cholly

fingerstyle said:


> It might .......but would there be enough of a difference in sound quality to make it worth doing?


In all probability, yes.. In looking at a picture of the rear panel of your receiver, it appears that it has two component inputs, two optical audio inputs and two coaxial audio inputs.You didn't state whether your A-B switch is an auto switch, remote controlled switch or manual switch, but you might not need it. If you connect the component output of your DVD player to one of the component inputs of the AVR (and optical output of the DVD player to one of the optical inputs), and the component output of your satellite receiver to the other component input of the AVR (optical output of the satellite receiver to second optical input on the AVR), then connect the component output of your AVR to the component input of your TV, you would have the best possible combination of sound and video quality and do without the A/B switch.


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## John Williams

If the price is not an issue, and the effort will not be a problem and doable, and there is room for you Sony amp to go with the other source equipment (Sat box & DVD); then yes... rewire and move that Sony amp to the other equipment. That is the 1st thing you should do. 
Having an A/B box in the system is adding 1 more component that can fail, taking up space, complicating the operation of things, degrading performance, and if you move the Sony amp to the other equipment, not needed.

What you still have not stated (and some are assuming one way or the other), is how you have these devices hooked up? Meaning: 
Audio = Are you using digital out from your sources to the digital audio inputs on your Sony Amp? Or are you using analog audio connections (left & right / white & red RCA)?
Video = HDMI into TV from sources, component video (red, green, blue), composite video (yellow)?

When you get your new TV, it will most certainly be a 1080p resolution of some sort. In order to get the 1080p signal to you TV, it has to hooked up with an HDMI cable. Your current Sony Amp doesn't do HDMI switching but that's OK. You just connect a HDMI cable from each source to TV (TV does the video switching). Then a digital audio cable goes from each source to the amp (amp does the audio switching).

Unless you want a stack of remotes laying around to switch everything, you NEED a universal remote control.
You push the button to watch satellite = The remote sends out the codes to switch the TV to the correct input, amp to the right input, and is ready to work the satellite box (with volume working the amp). Just 1 button push.
You push the button to watch DVD/Bluray = Same thing, everything is set to the right inputs on the TV and amp and is ready to work the DVD/Bluray player (with volume working the amp). Just 1 button push.
Hit the OFF button = Everything turns off. Just 1 button push.

I'll let the rest of the guys advise you on what universal would work best for you, that you could program yourself. I generally only work with the more professional remotes that are more expensive and require more indepth programming from my laptop. Regardless you can get a good universal for less then $99... maybe even less than $50 that will do what you need.

Note: Whatever new TV you get, make sure it's controllable! Meaning it has discrete codes for on/off and input. A lot of cheap TVs don't, they only have toggle codes for power & input. That would be a problem for a control system (universal remote). Your Sony amp responds to discrete codes, so you are good there.


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## fingerstyle

The audio connections are analog. The tv doesn't have an HDMI input (its a Hitachi projection that predates HDMI) IT does have an input that they call a DVI HDTV input. The connection looks like the Kind used on CRT monitors. I have an HDMI cable out of the DTV box to an adapter that is plugged in there

With the new TV moving the receiver may be possible. One issue will be space for CD player and turntable, yeah I still play records. 

I appreciate all the help


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## John Williams

fingerstyle said:


> The audio connections are analog.


And there is yet another issue you have. You are not getting 5.1 surround sound, even thou everything you have is capable of doing it. It just isn't hooked up correctly to do it. You need to hookup the digital audio outputs from your sources to the Sony amp's digital audio inputs.
I won't even get into it here, as it would take pages more discussion. But I will bet you top dollar none (or at least most) of your speakers are not setup properly either.

If you really want to get everything right (the way it should be) and get the best picture and sound out of your system; it is going to be a long road to go down. You have a ton of stuff you are going to need to learn and know to get there. And since you seem to be starting out at the most basic level; it will probably take you awhile to research everything, ask the right questions, get the answers you need, and act on it.

One of the biggest obstacles you will likely run into, is getting the advice you need. There are many great books and publications you could buy. However that can get expensive (you could have hired someone for the price). The cheaper way of course is the forum boards. But it should go without saying " you are on the internet". Everyone is a self proclaimed expert, even thou many have no idea what they are talking about. You have to look closely at who's giving you advice.
Everything in this thread so far from everyone has been great. But that won't always be the case when your asking questions, sometimes you will get conflicting answers.

My favorite line: "Rocket science: it's just throwing fuel in a tube right!" 
A/V systems are VERY complicated. It only seems simple to someone throwing something together that just makes noise and has colors on a screen. It's FAR more complicated to get an accurate sound reproduction and an accurate picture on a video display. 80%+ of people who have systems in their home, fall into the noise & colors category.


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## fingerstyle

When you refer to Digital audio input/out put are you referring to optical cables http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812120019

Getting the colors right is another discussion when I get the new TV


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## spartanstew

Toslink is one type of digital audio. HDMI is another.


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## harsh

fingerstyle said:


> The connection looks like the Kind used on CRT monitors. I have an HDMI cable out of the DTV box to an adapter that is plugged in there


DVI carries all the video information that HDMI does (often including the HDCP copy protection stuff). This is the connection of preference if it supports HDCP as this will become a big issue going forward.


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## harsh

When talking about making long distance connections, TOSLink (optical) is a poor choice as the emitters and cables used are typically not of good quality. Coaxial digital is usually a better choice (if available).


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## fingerstyle

So TOSLink is good for short runs-the equipment is close to each other?

What is the difference,if any, between coaxial digital and coax?

Thanks


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## harsh

fingerstyle said:


> So TOSLink is good for short runs-the equipment is close to each other?


I wouldn't say that it was good but rather that it is sufficient.


> What is the difference,if any, between coaxial digital and coax?


Optical is optical and coax is electrical. Coax works on voltages (with very little current) where optical works, typically, using LED light and cheap plastic optical pipe.

If you have the option of coaxial DIGITAL, it is usually the better choice. If you have to parcel it out, use coaxial digital for your best sources (Blu-ray, DVD) and optical for the less wonderful sources (or the ones that don't have coaxial digital outputs).

There is much Internet traffic on the subject of coaxial digital versus optical if you really want to fill your head. Many discussions center around the term "jitter".


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## Cholly

Your best sources for audio/video cables are monoprice.com and amazon.com.
Here is a link to optical cables from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...s=optical+audio+cable&sprefix=optical,aps,163
I have used both the Amazon Basics and Mediabridge cables and find both to be well made and inexpensive. I've never had the need for an optical cable longer than 6 feet.

As to the difference between coaxial digital (coaxial digital audio) and coaxial (radio frequency and video coax) -- the former is a lightweight and more flexible form of coaxial cable, normally terminated in RCA type pin connectors. The latter is heavier, less flexible cable made according to industry specification (such as RG-6, RG-8, RG-11, RG-59 amongst others (RG-59 and RG-6 are the types normally used in consumer electronics and are terminated in "F connectors")).
Of the two types of digital audio connectors, optical is the most commonly used.


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