# DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q2 2010 Thread)



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Even though there's been no real news about the upcoming DIRECTV-TiVo device in over a year, discussion here at DBSTalk.com has been brewing. As the new device gets closer, we'll be rebooting this thread once a quarter until we see some real hardware hit the streets.

Ground Rules:

This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.

If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.

We all acknowledge that _very little is known about the new TiVo device_ and what we've been told may no longer be current. Do not claim to "know" something if you truly do not.

This is the singular thread for all future TiVo discussion until the device is actually revealed. Other threads will be closed.

Above all, enjoy speculating and anticipating a new chapter in DIRECTV history!

September 2008 Press Release
TiVo SEC Filing


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide. 
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface. 
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people. 
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo. 
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas). 
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.

Further, we've learned that the new TiVo for DIRECTV will *not* have the upgraded user experience seen in the TiVo Premiere, and since the DIRECTV HR24-500 DVR has been released, there has been some question as to what DIRECTV platform will underpin the new TiVo.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Please commence anticipating, and please be polite.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I anticipate that near the end of this quarter....we may actually SEE one of these units, if not at least an early prototype.


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## cheesedjdj (Jan 21, 2010)

I anticipate the new unit just being an HR24 with the new Tivo GUI loaded on it and released by, oh i'll say August with a preview in June. In September released to all HR2x units.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Well folks, yesterday came and went .. It was my original prediction of when the DIRECTV TiVo would show up. .. poof! It's still just a bunch of hot air at this point. In fact, we are exactly as far today as we were when the first announcement came out on September 3, 2008.

With the proclamation that we'd see a new MPEG4 DIRECTiVo in the second half of 2008, I felt reasonably sure that we'd see one in Q1/2010. Wrong again! :nono2:

I must admit, early in this quarter I tossed that prediction out. Had we seen the new box @ CES it might have been possible, but when it didn't show I was thinking "uh, oh." I've since jumped on the early 2011 bandwagon .. But I have a loose affiliation with that time frame. If TiVo can get these things into Beta by summer, then maybe, just MAYBE, they'll hit the streets in time for Christmas 2010.

So far the best we've heard from TiVo is 6 months out .. and that is a moving target. Each time we've gotten news recently it seems to be 6 months out. It's great we've talked about it for so long, but to this day, it's all talk. That is unfortunate.

One thing I will say .. If we don't see this device by CES 2011 .. I think we can write it off as dead. At this point, it better hit a home run or it might be dead anyway regardless of whether or not it comes out.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> One thing I will say .. If we don't see this device by CES 2011 .. I think we can write it off as dead. At this point, it better hit a home run or it might be dead anyway regardless of whether or not it comes out.


I'd tend to agree sir.

At CES 2010, we saw no prototype, and continued to be told by the Tivo folks there "later in 2010".

If *real news *doesn't show up some time before Labor Day, I think the probability of seeing it at all drops off a cliff after that point.


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## HiDefGator (Nov 20, 2005)

Since Tivo has pointed out that it will be the old Tivo UI, I don't see how this box will sell as a premium dvr at a higher monthly price?

Would anyone really pay extra for an HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I've gone from ...

Very interested (2008), when announced.

Just interested (early-2009), HR2x was anticipated to have some cool stuff.

Just curious (late-2009), after TiVo slipped and HR2x did MRV well.

Not sure I care anymore (early-2010), after loving the HR24-500, TiVo slipping again, and TiVo Premiere looks awful.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I anticipate that near the end of this quarter....we may actually SEE one of these units, if not at least an early prototype.


If that's the case, they might as well fold up tent. Over a year and half after the announcement and without a major UI overhaul as was the case with the standalone Premiere, I'd expect it's in beta with close to the final RC. Then I'd expect to see an announcement that it would be released in late Summer, prior to the NFL Season.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bidger said:


> If that's the case, they might as well fold up tent. Over a year and half after the announcement and without a major UI overhaul as was the case with the standalone Premiere, I'd expect it's in beta with close to the final RC. Then I'd expect to see an announcement that it would be released in late Summer, prior to the NFL Season.


Little dispute on those points....they've been working on it supposedly now for over 18 months.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm sticking to my prediction of Q1/2011 at this point... by then there should at least be a running prototype.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo has pointed out that it will be the old Tivo UI, I don't see how this box will sell as a premium dvr at a higher monthly price?
> 
> Would anyone really pay extra for an HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it?


Even though this sounds like a troll, I'll bite: Yes. Emphatically *yes*.

IMO it's not the interface, it's the HR2x's bugs and deficiencies - and interference by D* marketing (preventing CIG from working or being user-maintainable).

Of course I'm assuming that a TiVo won't have as many bugs. Here's my complete list of HR10 deficiencies:

• The HR10 always forgets your position (in either a recording or the live buffer) if you exit after pausing within 5 minutes of the end.
• FFx1 frequently (and inevitably) freezes, and then the screen may go black after a while, unless and until you press another trick play button.
• Every few months my HR10 has to be restarted, often after it complains that it hasn't been able to get schedule info because the phone connection isn't working.
• When DirecTV deletes and re-adds a junk channel, TiVo doesn't remember that you've already removed it from the list of Channels I Get.
• [not a bug; WAD] The HR10 makes you wait a minute or three after you shuffle the Season Pass list.
• [following Rupert Murdoch's nefarious plan] It can no longer pick up any HD channels from the satellites. 

Does anyone have more to add?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Does anyone have more to add?


It can't pick up any HD channels from the Satellites ..


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

If it doesn't come with a Peanut Remote (and I don't expect it will), it's dead to me.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> It can't pick up any HD channels from the Satellites ..


Correct, Doug. I've added that item, with editorial comment.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> If it doesn't come with a Peanut Remote (and I don't expect it will), it's dead to me.


I use a Harmony One, so for me it's moot.

But what if it came with a Qwerty remote like that promised later this year for the TiVo Premiere? That'd make me think twice!


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Page1!
I anticipate a late 2010 First Look! 
Nah, but who cares anymore really?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> • [following Rupert Murdoch's nefarious plan] It can no longer pick up any HD channels from the satellites.


Yea, it was all Rupert's fault for actually going with the industry trend of moving to MPEG4 to be able to actually carry more channels in the same limited bandwidth space. What a loser. LOL


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> I use a Harmony One, so for me it's moot.
> 
> But what if it came with a Qwerty remote like that promised later this year for the TiVo Premiere? That'd make me think twice!


Yeah but can that Qwerty remote operate all my stuff, have the ability to do custom macros of up to 255 steps, the ability to insert users defined delays between steps, remember the TOAD state of the appropriate equipment, etc....

I doubt I will ever find an OEM remote that do what I want it to do. Not even the superwhampladyne TiVo. 

Mike


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, it was all Rupert's fault for actually going with the industry trend of moving to MPEG4 to be able to actually carry more channels in the same limited bandwidth space. What a loser. LOL


They put two boxes in front of Rupert. One labelled MPEG2 and the other labelled MPEG4. He knows higher numbers are better except in golf, so he picked MPEG4. When he found they could not produce MPEG5, he decided DirecTV was a "turd bird" and sold.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

My original prediction was that we'd never see this mythical device, and I'm sticking with it. Oh how I was mocked back in 2008.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> My original prediction was that we'd never see this mythical device, and I'm sticking with it. Oh how I was mocked back in 2008.


I was saying the same thing until 9/2008 .. :lol: .. maybe I should have stuck with my guns all along.

No, I have a reasonable degree of certainty that the box will arrive at some point. At least it seems like things are going forward (albeit slowly). Conceivably TiVo could get to the 11th hour (OK, maybe the 16th hour) and decide to punt.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I was saying the same thing until 9/2008 .. :lol: .. maybe I should have stuck with my guns all along.
> 
> No, I have a reasonable degree of certainty that the box will arrive at some point. At least it seems like things are going forward (albeit slowly). Conceivably TiVo could get to the 11th hour (OK, maybe the 16th hour) and decide to punt.


We're on military time now? :lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ndole_mbnd said:


> We're on military time now? :lol:


No .. Just late ..


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> I use a Harmony One, so for me it's moot.
> 
> But what if it came with a Qwerty remote like that promised later this year for the TiVo Premiere? That'd make me think twice!


I have no intereste in a QWERTY remote nor a Harmony...

The TiVo-glo remote that came with my Series 3 is probably my favorite remote, but even a modified peanut (with the color buttons added) would be fine with me.

Though I'm perfectly fine with the DirecTV remotes (when they work), any TiVo device would HAVE to have a peanut remote with it...

~Alan


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Am I correct the consensus is, unless this thing shows up in a hurry, it is practically dead, even if it shows up later?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Am I correct the consensus is, unless this thing shows up in a hurry, it is practically dead, even if it shows up later?


I don't know about consensus .. but that sums up my thoughts, yes.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

For me to consider it, it has to have an HD GUI (Providing the HR2x has one at that point), more than 2 tuners (If there's a choice between the HMC30 with 5 tuners or the HD DirecTivo on the HR24 with 2 tuners, I'm going with the HMC30), and RF remote, and the ability to create wishlists that don't auto record.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

To this day, I still like my Hr10 better then the Hr2xs It is just more fun to use.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

FYI for those interested, there is a growing thread on TCF with bugs for the Tivo Premier. It's getting to be a pretty long list.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jal said:


> To this day, I still like my Hr10 better then the Hr2xs It is just more fun to use.


Fair enough. But I don't need "fun", I just need it to record my programs and play them back and do a good job at it. On any DVR I've ever used once everything is setup about the only screen I ever see is the playlist of recorded programs. That's it unless a new series comes on I want to see (like in the Fall).


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> FYI for those interested, there is a growing thread on TCF with bugs for the Tivo Premier. It's getting to be a pretty long list.


New hardware, new software/architecture-it's to be expected.


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

HA HA! revision3 tv fooled me today april 1st,and i dont think they did it on purpose!,they were talking about how directv would be doing a software update to the hd dvrs this june for 3D tv viewing,and behind them on the screen you could clearly see coming soon a 6.2 software update to your directv dvr with TIVO, it clearly showed the tivo season pass screen with the tivo character! and i thought oh my this is coming real soon. but lo and behold i googled directv 6.2 software update ,It turns out it was an update for the old hr 10-250 hd tivo from 2005.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> FYI for those interested, there is a growing thread on TCF with bugs for the Tivo Premier. It's getting to be a pretty long list.


Impossible! Tivo is perfect!

:lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I am amazed that there are already two pages of posts on this topic considering there's been no real news for about 18 months.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Honestly, if they're just planning on delivering an MPEG-4 capable HR10-250, I don't see the point. Hope that's NOT what they're planning one.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

kevinturcotte said:


> New hardware, new software/architecture-it's to be expected.


Very true. My point was though that there are these people that think Tivo is perfect and can do no wrong and never has any bugs. But we know better. 

HR20 had bugs at first. Guess what, so does the Premier. Gasp the horror! :eek2:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, it was all Rupert's fault for actually going with the industry trend of moving to MPEG4 to be able to actually carry more channels in the same limited bandwidth space. What a loser. LOL


The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years. (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

jacmyoung said:


> Am I correct the consensus is, unless this thing shows up in a hurry, it is practically dead, even if it shows up later?


As Doug Brott suggested in his immediate reply, there's no consensus. If TiVo shows up very late, on an HR24 platform, with all of its classic features intact, and maybe even with MRV and some other spiffy frills copied from the HR2x software, a lot of people who said they were fed up with waiting will suddenly be very interested.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years. (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


Or maybe .. just maybe .. TiVo was so arrogant that they refused to negotiate a fair price. If you look back, it's not just DIRECTV that said "no" to TiVo.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years. (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


Huh? What does the divorce from Tivo have to do with the current state of HR10s? DirecTV went MPEG4 and to new satellites with different frequencies, etc. The HR10s would never work under those conditions even if DirecTV continued to offer Tivo as a DVR. They would do exactly what they do today. Record satellite SD and digital OTA.

At least DirecTV had a swap out program. You got a new DVR for cheap or free depending on when you did it.

Tivo has never done that.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> ...(Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


Those same Tivo engineers & programmers who designed the super buggy and slow Tivo Premier that is getting slammed by Tivotees on TCF?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> Those same Tivo engineers & programmers who designed the super buggy and slow Tivo Premier that is getting slammed by Tivotees on TCF?


Actually, I wonder if it isn't a whole *new* batch of bosses, engineers and programmers who are responsible for the premature debut of the Premiere, with one core disabled due to software problems, and the promised spiffy remote MIA.

Anyhoo, the public's response to the Premiere probably ensures that the MPEG-4 TiVo will be delayed even more, to avoid a similar embarassment.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


I'm really curious as to where you got this inside information on the programming team responsible for the HR2x software.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years. (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


Considering TiVo had an 8-year head start on DirecTV, and DirecTV _probably_ had to work around the TiVo patents when they first designed the HR2x platform, the D* engineers should be roundly applauded for doing an incredible job, instead of being disparaged by comments like that. Just my .02.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> As Doug Brott suggested in his immediate reply, there's no consensus...


He was just trying to be modest, his thoughts are consensus, that is my view and I am sticking to it


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## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm at the point where I don't care anymore. I also believe that this product is dead unless they announce something before summer. Even then it is probably still dead. Not enough people care anymore......

I'm surprised the Tivo thread is still going..


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years.


Of course since I knew all about MPEG4 coming I never paid the $1000 entry fee knowing full well it wouldn't work with MPEG4. I put off being able to record HD by 2 years waiting for the MPEG4 DVR to come out.


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## crazywater (Mar 25, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo has pointed out that it will be the old Tivo UI, I don't see how this box will sell as a premium dvr at a higher monthly price?
> 
> Would anyone really pay extra for an HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it?


Yes...


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

If they do not hurry, they will look like they are announcing the new 2008 DirecTiVo in 2011.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm really curious as to where you got this inside information on the programming team responsible for the HR2x software.


If they are not low paid, then they are overpaid.

Just one former programmer's opinion.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I am amazed that there are already two pages of posts on this topic considering there's been no real news for about 18 months.


I think that might be reflective of what some people are thinking about the HR2x boxes.

If the new Tivo doesn't happen, a certain number of subscribers may reconsider their options.

Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that (i) there is no new D* Tivo box, (ii) the Premier really is a dog in it's current release, and (iii) never, ever really gets better (although I think the latter is a stretch based upon prior history). If that is really what happens, I think I may need to find a used Series 3 Tivo and turn the cable back on. Or just use the OTA, Netflix and Hulu.

Other than some sports (probably less all the time), I am not sure what I would loose. I would definitely save some real money.

By the way, it's entertaining to see all the people who are certain the "next release" will fix the HR2x seem equally certain that the Tivo Premier will never get better. :lol: Never buy a new tech product on release 1, unless you can tolerate some real frustration. I think that was true with the HR10-250, and appears to be true with the Premiere.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Yeah. If the new Tivo doesn't happen, I might seriously consider a used TiVo HD with Comcast (ugh), or simply OTA + Redbox + Vudu. (The only sports I watch are the Twins and the Vikings.)


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Yeah. If the new Tivo doesn't happen, I might seriously consider a used TiVo HD with Comcast (ugh), or simply OTA + Redbox + Vudu. (The only sports I watch are the Twins and the Vikings.)


Really? So you've been suffering through the HR2x since at least 9/2008, with this solid backup plan in place? What the **** is stopping you from doing this right now?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

TiVo Premiere unearths hidden power: USB keyboard functionality

Will the HRs ever be able to use a wireless keyboard?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Correct, Doug. I've added that item, with editorial comment.


:thats:

You should probably blame the peopel that figured out how to shove more info into MPEG-4 than MPEG-2...

Because Murdoch was too busy messing up the Dodgers to actually screw up DIrecTV....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The "nefarious plan" was, of course, the plan to divorce DirecTV from TiVo, forcing all those $1000 entry tickets into Sat HD to become nearly worthless in a couple of years. (Maybe he really thought that a pickup band of low-paid programmers could do as well as TiVo's engineeers had already done - but I don't think he even cared.)


They never divorced, They extended or continued the agreement, they just didn't include a new tivo unit as well, and frankly, I think Tivo was more a afterthought victim than anything because they where going away from 3rd party vendors for their boxes at the time, and tivo was and is such a small supplier in comparison to the majority of their boxes, it really didn't justify being singled out (their boxes at the time where behind todays for sure cause the HR10 was cutting edge when this happened the first time) and differentiated when Tvio didn't make it monetarily enticing in any way, like they obviously did in 08 when they re uped again...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I gave this a bit more thought yesterday.

- DirecTV has made an investment to TiVo to deliver a new unit of well over $6.5 Million that we know of as of late last year.

- TiVo is aggressively looking to expand their user base to remain viable as a company, specializing in the software, and contracting for hardware.

- DirecTV is on the verge of having its next generation HD DVR (HR24-500) and receiver (H24-100) units mainstream out in the market (per the First Look).

- DirecTV is positioning themselves to launch a number of new HD channels soon with the activation of their new D12 satellite.

- All new DirecTV installs now can offer SWM and potentially DECA technology as part of the infrastructure for those with various multiple HD DVRs/receivers.

Based on all this - it would seem reasonable to assume that they will complete the project founded on a significant investment with TiVo. The only real question seems *when*?


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> ...Other than some sports (probably less all the time), I am not sure what I would loose. I would definitely save some real money...


What are you waitng for? It is not as if once the new DirecTiVo is available, assume it will be some time, you will get more sports and save some real money, no, you will not get more sports, but you will spend some more real money, so what are you waiting for? I am a little lost in the logic here.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Well honestly, I wouldn't call $6.5 million spent over the past couple years a "significant" investment. That's just pocket change to DirecTV to be blunt.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I gave this a bit more thought yesterday.
> 
> - DirecTV has made an investment to TiVo to deliver a new unit of well over $6.5 Million that we know of as of late last year.
> 
> ...


I would not call $6.5M a significant investment, but a reasonable money to spend to keep TiVo from suing DirecTV, maybe even a little cheaper than the legal fees DISH had spent in the last two years. According to the bill both E* and TiVo agreed on, the legal fees since 2008, ended on 6/2/09, is about $5.8M for each side.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> What are you waitng for? It is not as if once the new DirecTiVo is available, assume it will be some time, you will get more sports and save some real money, no, you will not get more sports, but you will spend some more real money, so what are you waiting for? I am a little lost in the logic here.


I was trying to point out (rather inarticulately) that 2 years ago my option was a TiVo box on cable, with no Sunday Ticket, at about the same price for the monthly programming.

Today I have much better options, which would save me some real money.

The only thing keeping the screen door from banging me on the rear today is my addiction to the NFL.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Well honestly, I wouldn't call $6.5 million spent over the past couple years a "significant" investment. That's just pocket change to DirecTV to be blunt.





jacmyoung said:


> I would not call $6.5M a significant investment, but a reasonable money to spend to keep TiVo from suing DirecTV, maybe even a little cheaper than the legal fees DISH had spent in the last two years. According to the bill both E* and TiVo agreed on, the legal fees since 2008, ended on 6/2/09, is about $5.8M for each side.


That was as of 2Q last year....we're coming up on a year later...and supposedly things are still proceeding.

Assuming the number may be $8-$10 Million by now - you may feel that number isn't that significant....but ending a project with no return on that investment might not be seen in that same light by their stockholders.

Put simply - its too much of a spend to be throw-away money. I suspect its more than any of us have in our wallets as well. I'm betting the project gets finished.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect its more than any of us have in our wallets as well.


Unless any of us are multi-billion dollar corporations. $10 million isn't quite insignificant, but it's not significant either. DirecTV brings in almost *one billion dollars per month in gross profit*. So $10 million is 1% of their monthly gross profit, and that's been spread out over the course of a couple years. It's very far from a significant amount of money.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> Unless any of us are multi-billion dollar corporations. $10 million isn't quite insignificant, but it's not significant either. DirecTV brings in almost *one billion dollars per month in gross profit*. So $10 million is 1% of their monthly gross profit, and that's been spread out over the course of a couple years. It's very far from a significant amount of money.


If you think $10 Million NET DOLLARS thrown away is negligible to stockholders...perhaps I can interest you in some great lake property in North Africa.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Since Tivo has pointed out that it will be the old Tivo UI, I don't see how this box will sell as a premium dvr at a higher monthly price?
> 
> Would anyone really pay extra for an HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it?


HR24 - yes
TIVO interface - hmm politely NO, they have to pay me to take this back


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Unless any of us are multi-billion dollar corporations. $10 million isn't quite insignificant, but it's not significant either. DirecTV brings in almost *one billion dollars per month in gross profit*. So $10 million is 1% of their monthly gross profit, and that's been spread out over the course of a couple years. It's very far from a significant amount of money.


remind me never to hire you for any management position that involves budgeting and cost containment, anything that affects the profit margin on any level is significant - that is unless you are with AIG or one of the bailed out banks


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> anything that affects the profit margin on any level is significant


Spoken like someone who has never managed anything more complex than a lemonade stand.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Spoken like someone who has never managed anything more complex than a lemonade stand.


Stock reply from someone who has no idea what they are babbling about. Don't assume anything, you are normally wrong.

The pier is that way


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wingrider01 said:


> remind me never to hire you for any management position that involves budgeting and cost containment, anything that affects the profit margin on any level is significant - that is unless you are with AIG or one of the bailed out banks


I was trying to avoid stating those same thoughts....but must admit they crossed my mind now that you said them.

I manage tens of Millions in project expenditures at my company, and they are a major Fortune 500 outfit - billions in revenue. I can assure you that if I lost $1 Million on a dead project, let alone $10 Million....many heads would roll.

Perhaps experience speaks louder than speculation in these matters.

For all those aforementioned reasons....I suspect the new Tivobox is still a "live" project.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps experience speaks louder than speculation in these matters.


You don't have the slightest idea what experience I have, so don't pretend like you do.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> You don't have the slightest idea what experience I have, so don't pretend like you do.


/roflmao


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> You don't have the slightest idea what experience I have, so don't pretend like you do.


True - but I know what experience *I have *- and it more than qualifies me to know how a project of this magnitude impacts profitability, stockholder value, and actual real-world impact to NOP (that's net operating profit - for those who don't know).

Speculation on the delivery of the new Tivo unit based on industry-proven financial best practices is prudent.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> I've gone from ...
> 
> Very interested (2008), when announced.
> 
> ...


I suspect there are others following those very same thoughts, and that would be understandable as well.

...and yet.....this is still "alive" on their website....hmmm....

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

Curioser and curioser.... :lol:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and yet...this is still "alive" on their website...hmmm...
> 
> http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77
> 
> Curiouser and curiouser.... :lol:


When I click on that link, I get redirected to a global directv page saying, among other things, "Get up to 50% off for one year."

I'll bet you thought I'd get something more specific. I wonder what?

Never mind... I found the correct page by cutting and pasting the link (my IE7 is misbehaving):



> *Will DIRECTV offer a new TiVo HD DVR?*
> 
> We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:
> • Access to over 130 HD channels
> ...


I think they have to keep changing the year.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Never mind... I found the correct page by cutting and pasting the link (my IE7 is misbehaving):
> 
> I think they have to keep changing the year.


That is certainly another issue entirely - and you have a valid point that the timing is something we can all agree is anything but etched in stone.

While the DirecTV website, as well as the Tivo folks themselves at CED in January this year both state "some time in 2010"...we simply don't know if that will hold up.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...Assuming the number may be $8-$10 Million by now - you may feel that number isn't that significant...


I also said it is a reasonable money spent to prevent TiVo from suing DirecTV, I am sure the investors can agree, if not, they can sell their DirecTV stocks and go buy some DISH stocks instead


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> I also said it is a reasonable money spent to prevent TiVo from suing DirecTV, I am sure the investors can agree, if not, they can sell their DirecTV stocks and go buy some DISH stocks instead


Agreed - a very valid point.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jacmyoung said:


> I also said it is a reasonable money spent to prevent TiVo from suing DirecTV, I am sure the investors can agree, if not, they can sell their DirecTV stocks and go buy some DISH stocks instead


This.

Spending $10 million to stop from spending the same amount or more in legal fees and not having negative press by being taken to court and to perhaps stop hundreds of millions in damages should you lose sounds like a good investment to me if I were an investor.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> This.
> 
> Spending $10 million to stop from spending the same amount or more in legal fees and not having negative press by being taken to court and to perhaps stop hundreds of millions in damages should you lose sounds like a good investment to me if I were an investor.


Scott...you also make a compelling point.

I personally do not believe that was the motivation for launching the new Tivobox device. Since the DirecTV agreement runs through 2018, there would have been easier paths to follow and accomplish most of the same thing.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I think they have to keep changing the year.


Nah, Tivo and DirecTV got their programmers together and created an applet that changes the year automatically. It takes the current date, adds 2 quarters than presents the resulting year. They are very proud of this piece of code, marking off a milestone in the quest to make a DirecTV MPEG4 Tivo!

(Hey, they must be working on something, right?)


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

They'll release the MPEG-4 DirecTivo-2 days after Directv announces they're moving to all MPEG-6 lol


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Scott...you also make a compelling point.
> 
> I personally do not believe that was the motivation for launching the new Tivobox device. Since the DirecTV agreement runs through 2018, there would have been easier paths to follow and accomplish most of the same thing.


What we don't know is that Tivo may have refused to sign a deal unless they got access to build a new DirecTivo box. I would bet quite a bit that DirecTV agreeing to let Tivo build a new DirecTivo box (or attempt to build at least) was the linchpin to signing the extension. DirecTV probably figured it would be much less money to agree to this then to get sued and go thru all that. In then end if the new DirecTivo actually was a success, DirecTV makes money. If it's not and they are stuck supporting a small population of receivers....again, small change compared to hundreds of millions in a lost patent suit.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> This.
> 
> Spending $10 million to stop from spending the same amount or more in legal fees and not having negative press by being taken to court and to perhaps stop hundreds of millions in damages should you lose sounds like a good investment to me if I were an investor.


And they get to deduct some of it from future TiVo fees.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> What we don't know is that Tivo may have refused to sign a deal unless they got access to build a new DirecTivo box. I would bet quite a bit that DirecTV agreeing to let Tivo build a new DirecTivo box (or attempt to build at least) was the linchpin to signing the extension. DirecTV probably figured it would be much less money to agree to this then to get sued and go thru all that. In then end if the new DirecTivo actually was a success, DirecTV makes money. If it's not and they are stuck supporting a small population of receivers....again, small change compared to hundreds of millions in a lost patent suit.


Maybe much truth to your theory.

Since, 9/3/2008, DirecTV has very clearly downplayed the new DirecTV TiVo. They've had MUCH opportunity, and usually zero mention, while TiVo mentions it during every analyst call and presentation.

DirecTV got what they wanted.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Sixto said:


> ...Since, 9/3/2008, ...


Funny you mentioned the 9/3/08 date, which was one day before TiVo took E* to court in the 9/4/08 hearing, so it made sense. The question is, after TiVo's "big wins" against DISH on 6/2/09 and 3/4/10, now we learned from TiVo's own 10k DirecTV is less likely going to let the new DirecTiVo go live.

Did DirecTV not learn from DISH? What's up with that?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

_FYI _(re TiVo Premiere)...


> *DaverJ *said in AVSForum:
> 
> ... And if the current odd mix of SD and HD menus (and the ... pokiness) of the UI bugs you, there's an option to turn on the "classic view," which is Tivo's Series 3 all-SD menus, and those fly.


I'd definitely be turning on the "classic view."


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

jacmyoung said:


> ... we learned from TiVo's own 10k *DirecTV is less likely going to let the new DirecTiVo go live*.
> 
> Did DirecTV not learn from DISH? What's up with that?


I don't believe we learned that. Could you tell me how you figure that?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I don't believe we learned that. Could you tell me how you figure that?


We definitely didn't learn that. jacmyoung must be misinterpreting something.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> We definitely didn't learn that. jacmyoung must be misinterpreting something.


Don't want to speak for anyone, but it sounds like Jac may be reading too much into the latest TiVo 10k's subscriber acquisition risk section. I had a similar first reaction when I read it, but after sleeping on it, I think it's probably just CYA material.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> Don't want to speak for anyone, but it sounds like Jac may be reading too much into the latest TiVo 10k's subscriber acquisition risk section. I had a similar first reaction when I read it, but after sleeping on it, I think it's probably just CYA material.


Yeah, it's standard stuff. Every report has to mention things like that.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> Yeah, it's standard stuff. Every report has to mention things like that.


Having re-read the 10K just 3 weeks ago for an entirely different reason - you are absolutely correct - there is nothing extraordinary in there.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Steve said:


> Don't want to speak for anyone, but it sounds like Jac may be reading too much into the latest TiVo 10k's subscriber acquisition risk section. I had a similar first reaction when I read it, but after sleeping on it, I think it's probably just CYA material.


Exactly. You see the same risk statements in the 10k's going back years.

What Tivo says in the statement everyone quotes is basically this: DirecTV will not sell any new DirecTivo units until the new DirecTV HD platform with Tivo is released.

This is repeated a different way several times in their risk statements that say (paraphrase): DirecTV is *not allowed* to sell any new DirecTivo units at this time which may lead to continued subscriber loss until the new DirecTivo HD unit is launched.

In other words even if DirecTV *wanted* to sell Tivo based receivers today by contract with Tivo they cannot. Only after the launch of the new receiver is DirecTV allowed by contract to sell Tivo units.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Funny you mentioned the 9/3/08 date, which was one day before TiVo took E* to court in the 9/4/08 hearing, so it made sense. The question is, after TiVo's "big wins" against DISH on 6/2/09 and 3/4/10, now we learned from TiVo's own 10k DirecTV is less likely going to let the new DirecTiVo go live.
> 
> Did DirecTV not learn from DISH? What's up with that?


The 9/3/08 date is when TiVo and DIRECTV announced an agreement.

DIRECTV has made an agreement with TiVo allowing TiVo to release a new MPEG4 DIRECTV Receiver with TiVo (The aforementioned announcement). It's already agreed to and in TiVo's court to make or not make the new receiver. DIRECTV can't simply un-agree to it now unless there is a significant change (like DISH Network Buying TiVo).

Suggesting "DIRECTV is less likely going to let the new DIRECTiVo go live" is a mischaracterization at best.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The 9/3/08 date is when TiVo and DIRECTV announced an agreement.
> 
> DIRECTV has made an agreement with TiVo allowing TiVo to release a new MPEG4 DIRECTV Receiver with TiVo (The aforementioned announcement). It's already agreed to and in TiVo's court to make or not make the new receiver. DIRECTV can't simply un-agree to it now unless there is a significant change (like DISH Network Buying TiVo).
> 
> Suggesting "DIRECTV is less likely going to let the new DIRECTiVo go live" is a mischaracterization at best.


The timing is important too. DirecTV and TiVo signed their agreement one day before TiVo went to court hearing with DISH. TiVo made a big deal of the "significantly higher fees" DirecTV agreed to pay in this new agreement, at that same time TiVo asked for a much higher damage rate from DISH in the court. One can dismiss the timing and the math, but one cannot say there is no logic in connecting the dots there.

It was my speculation that DirecTV, as the only direct competitor to DISH, at the time willingly allowed TiVo to use that agreement to pressure DISH in court. After all DISH paying TiVo a high damage or fee could only benefit DirecTV.

But after TiVo's wins in court, most recently on 3/4/10, you would expect more movement on the new DirecTiVo front. The fact nothing is happening still, may further support the speculation that the 9/3/08 agreement was DirecTV's way to get at DISH, not that it really cared much about rolling out this new DirecTiVo in the first place.

I know the above is not something people like to agree, I am not seeking agreement, only to suggest a possibility, a mere speculation, since we are all speculating anyway.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jacmyoung said:


> But after TiVo's wins in court, most recently on 3/4/10, you would expect more movement on the new DirecTiVo front. The fact nothing is happening still, may further support the speculation that the 9/3/08 agreement was DirecTV's way to get at DISH, not that it really cared much about rolling out this new DirecTiVo in the first place.
> 
> I know the above is not something people like to agree, I am not seeking agreement, only to suggest a possibility, a mere speculation, since we are all speculating anyway.


Well, I think may of us agree that DirecTV has never cared less about if a new Directivo comes out or not. It was just part of the agreement they needed to reach so they could extend the no sue clause and support for existing DirecTivo's still in service. Sure, the timing may be right on target as you say, but doesn't really change much.

As for the continued delays, I think the best bet is simply Tivo's decade long trend of over promising and under delivering and being late on virtually every product they work on.

I highly doubt DirecTV would be actively blocking any release because of a couple reasons:
1) It could cause the whole deal to go sour and the agreement nullified which would go against everything we've said and you've promoted that this is nothing more then protecting themselves against being sued. 
2) You'd probably see some hint from Tivo themselves that the delay is due to late hardware delivery or something like that to keep their investors happy. We'd probably see something to that effect in the SEC filings. Now if it's just bubbling to the surface I think we'll see something soon to that effect.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> [...] I highly doubt DirecTV would be actively blocking any release because of a couple reasons:
> 1) It could cause the whole deal to go sour and the agreement nullified which would go against everything we've said and you've promoted that this is nothing more then protecting themselves against being sued.
> 2) You'd probably see some hint from Tivo themselves that the delay is due to late hardware delivery or something like that to keep their investors happy. We'd probably see something to that effect in the SEC filings. Now if it's just bubbling to the surface I think we'll see something soon to that effect.


I'd add a "3)".

It's a no-lose proposition for DirecTV. Having a DirecTiVo in their arsenal can only help with subscriber acquisition/retention of the small % of users that "must" have a TiVo, or they'll shop elsewhere.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> The timing is important too. DirecTV and TiVo signed their agreement one day before TiVo went to court hearing with DISH. TiVo made a big deal of the "significantly higher fees" DirecTV agreed to pay in this new agreement, at that same time TiVo asked for a much higher damage rate from DISH in the court. One can dismiss the timing and the math, but one cannot say there is no logic in connecting the dots there.
> 
> It was my speculation that DirecTV, as the only direct competitor to DISH, at the time willingly allowed TiVo to use that agreement to pressure DISH in court. After all DISH paying TiVo a high damage or fee could only benefit DirecTV.
> 
> ...


Why would DIRECTV care? DIRECTV has an agreement with TiVo .. The agreement was announced on 9/3/08 .. It could have been agreed to days or even weeks earlier and announced on 9/3/08 (within reason). The tiff between DISH & TiVo is just that .. between DISH & TiVo. TiVo may have waited for the DIRECTV/TiVo agreement to be announced before attacking DISH .. but so what? That has nothing to do with the DIRECTiVo .. why does it matter for THIS topic? :shrug:

The current agreement goes through 2018 which is the end of the Patent period. I doubt that date was by accident either. Usually agreements go through many iterations with many lawyers and the attempt is to make the bulletproof from both sides.

As I've said and will continue to say .. The ball is in TiVo's court to get this thing out. DIRECTV has done their part (other than marketing which comes after it's available) .. and continues to support TiVo in whatever is needed. Now we wait for TiVo to complete (or not complete) the project. The development schedule for TiVo is not directly tied to any rulings that have happened in the TiVo/DISH case since the original announcement. They are two separate things.

Sure, there is an indirect link because there are real $$ involved .. TiVo can invest more money if they have more money .. There's just not a direct relation - why even try to suggest that as it simply doesn't make sense .. ESPECIALLY when you are saying it's DIRECTV's decision (a third party in the TiVo/DISH adventure).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Steve said:


> I'd add a "3)".
> 
> It's a no-lose proposition for DirecTV. Having a DirecTiVo in their arsenal can only help with subscriber acquisition/retention of the small % of users that "must" have a TiVo, or they'll shop elsewhere.


Absolutely .. TiVo in .. Great, more DIRECTV subs .. TiVo out .. nothing extra to support.

It's gonna be a drop in the bucket either way I suspect.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> ... why does it matter for THIS topic? :shrug: ...


It shows DirecTV's ability to shoot two birds with one stone. The agreement with TiVo protects DirecTV from being sued, the timing of the agreement allowed TiVo to use such agreement as one of the arguments to leverage high damages on DISH, which put DISH in a bigger disadvantage against DirecTV.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> It shows DirecTV's ability to shoot two birds with one stone. The agreement with TiVo protects DirecTV from being sued, the timing of the agreement allowed TiVo to use such agreement as one of the arguments to leverage high damages on DISH, which put DISH in a bigger disadvantage against DirecTV.


Fine, but don't characterize it as DIRECTV "lettiing" or "not letting" TiVo do something now. The agreement was made over 18 months back. While TiVo may (or may not) have been strategic, suggesting DIRECTV is doing things differently than agreed upon makes me go :shrug: Where's the beef?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

this is going to be an unpopular opinion, oh well.
I'd like to see it happen, I think it will add a variety and help customer base.
I do not think it will actually ever get released.
I think its been going on too long now and that speaks volumes.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> this is going to be an unpopular opinion, oh well.
> I'd like to see it happen, I think it will add a variety and help customer base.
> I do not think it will actually ever get released.
> I think its been going on too long now and that speaks volumes.


I still think it's possible the DirecTivo was never intended to be released on the HR20/21/22/23 receivers, and they're waiting for the HR24 with it's additional horsepower. Of course, not working for Tivo or Directv, and not having played with an MPEG-4 DirecTivo, I really have no idea.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Fine, but don't characterize it as DIRECTV "lettiing" or "not letting" TiVo do something now. The agreement was made over 18 months back. While TiVo may (or may not) have been strategic, suggesting DIRECTV is doing things differently than agreed upon makes me go :shrug: Where's the beef?


I don't know where you get the impression that I said DirecTV is doing things differently than agreed upon?

If anything, I speculated from the very beginning the new agreement was to avoid litigation, and to put DISH in a disadvantage if possible. As time went on, my such speculation became more valid. At no time did I ever imply that DirecTV had tried not to fulfill the minimum required by the new agreement.

Saying DirecTV is not eager to help TiVo to succeed is not the same as saying they are not letting TiVo do things because as I speculated the new agreement itself did not require DirecTV to do that much in the first place.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I still think it's possible the DirecTivo was never intended to be released on the HR20/21/22/23 receivers, and they're waiting for the HR24 with it's additional horsepower.


I think that's highly unlikely. The HR24 was only a twinkle in DirecTV's eye back in 2008.


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## canesice (Jul 11, 2009)

found this on facebook today in response to a post:



> DIRECTV
> Deb, we are looking forward to the DIRECTV TiVo in the first half of the year- many of our fans have waited patiently






__ https://www.facebook.com/directv/posts/113031365389959


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

canesice said:


> found this on facebook today in response to a post:


Simple regurgitation of the latest official word. It means nothing.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I am amazed that there are already two pages of posts on this topic considering there's been no real news for about 18 months.


And isn't it interesting that the posts are people who are reading this thread and claiming to care less (or very little) about whether or not this device comes to market. Seems odd to me... to spend so much time reading and posting to a thread you apparently care little about????


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Yes, what could motivate people who don't want a new HD TiVo to spend so much time posting on this topic?

What could their motivation be?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Yes, what could motivate people who don't want a new HD TiVo to spend so much time posting on this topic?
> 
> What could their motivation be?


Bad sarcasm.
No one really has said they don't want it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> No one really has said they don't want it.


I don't want it.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't want it either (and I'm a former TiVophile). I'd rather have D* continue to improve the HR20 (or future) lines. My HR20 does everything I want it to do.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Yes, what could motivate people who don't want a new HD TiVo to spend so much time posting on this topic?
> 
> What could their motivation be?


I don't know...maybe this is a discussion about the pros, cons, comparisons to DirecTV's current line of HD DVRs, and comparisons to the current line of TiVo HD DVRs...Sounds to me like a discussion between those that want *and* those that don't necessarily want the new DirecTiVo...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I LOVED my DirecTivo, and while I'm definitely interested to see what they release (IF they release anything at all), it doesn't mean I'm going to jump right on top of it. If ALL they intend to do is basically release an HR10-250 with MPEG-4 tuners, I'm not interested.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I don't want it.





wilbur_the_goose said:


> I don't want it either (and I'm a former TiVophile). I'd rather have D* continue to improve the HR20 (or future) lines. My HR20 does everything I want it to do.


Same here. I'm waiting to see what the HMC brings, I'll get one of those or an HR24.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Same here. I'm waiting to see what the HMC brings, I'll get one of those or an HR24.


DEFINITELY!! If I can run an HMC30 with it's additional tuners, and then H24s off them as MRV/Live TV clients (So they don't take away from the available tuners able to record), I'll probably be set!


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I LOVED my DirecTivo, and while I'm definitely interested to see what they release (IF they release anything at all), it doesn't mean I'm going to jump right on top of it. If ALL they intend to do is basically release an HR10-250 with MPEG-4 tuners, I'm not interested.


You are the only one on the fence so far, I suspect once you get to see the new HR24 or the even newer DVR, you would join the "No" camp.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> You are the only one on the fence so far, I suspect once you get to see the new HR24 or the even newer DVR, you would join the "No" camp.


The only thing I REALLY miss is the Wishlist feature! And before somebody jumps on it, I do NOT mean auto-record. That's a sub feature of the Wishlist feature, and not all of what Wishlist is.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> The only thing I REALLY miss is the Wishlist feature! And before somebody jumps on it, I do NOT mean auto-record. That's a sub feature of the Wishlist feature, and not all of what Wishlist is.


That's the feature that I miss the most too.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I had an HR10-250 in the past, and honestly....it was not all that pleasant an experience - a number of problems over the time when I had it. I'm also of the belief that many HD DVR users have "outgrown" the old TiVo user interface.

At the same time...the new HR24 HD DVR seems very promising, based on the First Look and early user reports.

Despite all that - and as we move into 2Q 2010 - I'm going to keep an open mind about the planned DirecTV TiVo HD DVR.

Some folks are genuinely excited and interested in the new unit, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Since I had the good fortune to read alot on this, and also meet at the CES with the TiVo folks in January, I continue to be of the belief that this unit will appear - its just a matter of *when*. The consistent message from anyone directly getting information from TiVo or DirecTV is still "some time in 2010" as the delivery date.

Since no one to date *knows any real detailed content *to be contained in this new device (hardware or firmware), I am taking the approach of "wait and see' for those details, prior to getting any emotional equity into it.

It is possible this new HD DVR may meet or exceed expectations, while for others, disappointment may come into play. It's simply premature to tell either way, at least for me.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Since I had the good fortune to read alot on this, and also meet at the CES with the TiVo folks in January, I continue to be of the belief that this unit will appear - its just a matter of *when*. The consistent message from anyone directly getting information from TiVo or DirecTV is still "some time in 2010" as the delivery date.
> 
> Since no one to date *knows any real detailed content *to be contained in this new device (hardware or firmware), I am taking the approach of "wait and see' for those details, prior to getting any emotional equity into it.


I still find it funny that after, what, 2 years, we still know nothing more than we did when they first announced it. Really? In 2 years, they can't tell us anything about it? Not even how close it is to being released?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The new HR24 HD DVR seems very promising, based on the First Look and early user reports...so any enthusiasm for a new TiVo unit are dampened here.


An incremental speed increase is always good news, but it is by no means paradigm shift in day-to-day functionality and ease of use.

What promise does the HR24 bring that it wouldn't also bring to the new DIRECTiVo?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> The only thing I REALLY miss is the Wishlist feature! And before somebody jumps on it, I do NOT mean auto-record. That's a sub feature of the Wishlist feature, and not all of what Wishlist is.


I used TiVo s/w from '99 to '07, so I'm not aware of what Wish List features have been added in the past couple of years and I'm curious what in particular it is you miss.

If the issue is having to use "boolean" vs. TiVo's wizard-based approach for _advanced_ searches, no need to elaborate. I understand.

I used the Wish List mainly to keep an eye out for shows, movies or actors not currently in the GUIDE data and to automatically record them when they showed up. AUTORECORD satisfies those needs for me just fine. Based on posts by you and other WL advocates, tho, it sounds like either there were capabilities I wasn't aware of, or my needs were just different.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

I simply want an HR10-250-equivalent with:

1) MPEG4 Tuning
2) Working OTA (improved tuner would be a nice-to-have), with scanning
3) No 50 SL limit
4) Some level of increased performance from the HR10-250

I would consider a box that had the above. Anything else would make it more likely I purchase it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> What promise does the HR24 bring that it wouldn't also bring to the new DIRECTiVo?


I suspect you know the correct answer to your own question - we don't know enough details to make such a comparison until we see what is actually contained within a new production DirecTV Tivo unit itself.

That said, we now know the new things that the HR24 unit bring to the table -so the other half of the story is still TBD (to be determined).


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> I used TiVo s/w from '99 to '07, so I'm not aware of what Wish List features have been added in the past couple of years and I'm curious what in particular it is you miss.
> 
> If the issue is having to use "boolean" vs. TiVo's wizard-based approach for _advanced_ searches, no need to elaborate. I understand.
> 
> I used the Wish List mainly to keep an eye out for shows, movies or actors not currently in the GUIDE data and to automatically record them when they showed up. AUTORECORD satisfies those needs for me just fine. Based on posts by you and other WL advocates, tho, it sounds like either there were capabilities I wasn't aware of, or my needs were just different.


Basically I used as as a separate, saved search. Say I see a commercial for a movie I want to see that will be in theaters in a month or 2. I DON'T want to setup an auto record for it, but I also will NOT remember that I even want to watch it when it finally hits the movie channels. So I go in and create a non auto recording wish list for it. Then months down the road, when I've forgotten all about it, I go in and do my weekly wishlist search (Search All). It shows up. Even the title itself may not jog any memories, but I know I obviously wanted to see it at some point, so I then schedule it to record, and delete the wishlist.
That's the main feature I *SORELY* miss from the DirecTivos!!!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> Basically I used as as a separate, saved search. Say I see a commercial for a movie I want to see that will be in theaters in a month or 2. I DON'T want to setup an auto record for it, but I also will NOT remember that I even want to watch it when it finally hits the movie channels. So I go in and create a non auto recording wish list for it. Then months down the road, when I've forgotten all about it, I go in and do my weekly wishlist search (Search All). It shows up. Even the title itself may not jog any memories, but I know I obviously wanted to see it at some point, so I then schedule it to record, and delete the wishlist.
> That's the main feature I *SORELY* miss from the DirecTivos!!!


Gotcha. Even with TiVo, rather than check the Wish List periodically, I used to set up WL AUTORECORDS for the movie titles I was interested in and then delete them from the playlist if I later changed my mind, or flag them with KEEP if I wanted to save them for a day I had nothing else to watch.

You're right, tho. For folks that use the TiVo that way, saved searches on the HR2x can't be protected from "oldest first" deleting once you hit a 25 limit, and can't be run all at once. Those deficiencies are the genesis of this HR2x Wish List request:

*RECENT SEARCH capabilities as follows: Permit saved SEARCH editing; Restore Mark & Delete for saved searches; Display a "match count" for each SEARCH; Offer an "Episodes List" containing all RECENT SEARCH hits. *


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> Gotcha. Even with TiVo, rather than check the Wish List periodically, I used to set up WL AUTORECORDS for the movie titles I was interested in and then delete them from the playlist if I later changed my mind, or flag them with KEEP if I wanted to save them for a day I had nothing else to watch.
> 
> You're right, tho. For folks that use the TiVo that way, saved searches on the HR2x can't be protected from "oldest first" deleting once you hit a 25 limit, and can't be run all at once. Those deficiencies are the genesis of this HR2x Wish List request:
> 
> *RECENT SEARCH capabilities as follows: Permit saved SEARCH editing; Restore Mark & Delete for saved searches; Display a "match count" for each SEARCH; Offer an "Episodes List" containing all RECENT SEARCH hits. *


I never liked the auto record though. I just don't trust them. I want it to record EXACTLY what I want, and NOTHING else, so surprises.
Course, even if I did trust it, I used to have over 100 Wishlist items at times. No WAY you're going that with the current HR2x software, and the current 50 item Series Link/Auto-Record limit.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> Basically I used as as a separate, saved search. Say I see a commercial for a movie I want to see that will be in theaters in a month or 2. I DON'T want to setup an auto record for it, but I also will NOT remember that I even want to watch it when it finally hits the movie channels. So I go in and create a non auto recording wish list for it. Then months down the road, when I've forgotten all about it, I go in and do my weekly wishlist search (Search All). It shows up. Even the title itself may not jog any memories, but I know I obviously wanted to see it at some point, so I then schedule it to record, and delete the wishlist.
> That's the main feature I *SORELY* miss from the DirecTivos!!!


You do know that the HR2x's save the last 25 searches and you can delete ones you don't want?

I have a set of a dozen searches that I have on my main DVR for well over a year now and use them extensively. The only trick is that you need to prune the unwanted ones before the list gets too big and overflows.

I would prefer that the box manage the searches I want to keep but it has not been a big hardship.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> You do know that the HR2x's save the last 25 searches and you can delete ones you don't want?
> 
> I have a set of a dozen searches that I have on my main DVR for well over a year now and use them extensively. The only trick is that you need to prune the unwanted ones before the list gets too big and overflows.
> 
> I would prefer that the box manage the searches I want to keep but it has not been a big hardship.


How do I recreate the sometimes 100+ wishlists I had on my DirecTivos?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

kevinturcotte said:


> Basically I used as as a separate, saved search. Say I see a commercial for a movie I want to see that will be in theaters in a month or 2. I DON'T want to setup an auto record for it, but I also will NOT remember that I even want to watch it when it finally hits the movie channels. So I go in and create a non auto recording wish list for it. Then months down the road, when I've forgotten all about it, I go in and do my weekly wishlist search (Search All). It shows up. Even the title itself may not jog any memories, but I know I obviously wanted to see it at some point, so I then schedule it to record, and delete the wishlist.
> That's the main feature I *SORELY* miss from the DirecTivos!!!


What's funny is that is what I use Netflix for. When I see an ad for a movie that looks cool I'll add it to the queue and each week I look at the top box office and add new release movies that look interesting. Then they just show up at my door some months in the future. Then again, I gave up the movie channels years ago as a total rip off. Much better (for me) to get the Bluray from Netflix. If you still rely on movie channels then that doesn't work.

Anyway, kinda funny how we do similar things but with different products.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

kevinturcotte said:


> The only thing I REALLY miss is the Wishlist feature! And before somebody jumps on it, I do NOT mean auto-record. That's a sub feature of the Wishlist feature, and not all of what Wishlist is.


I use wishlists a lot, though I only have one set to autorecord. I would miss that if I had to switch, although it would be just one item on my check chart.

I think my biggest deciding factor for me will be whether or not the new unit supports any kind of MRV and if so which ecosystem it will live in. If it is the DirecTV ecosystem, then I need to plan to switch out all of my equipment, which is OK with me, but if that is the case I want plan for it and do it in stages that make sense to me.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> How do I recreate the sometimes 100+ wishlists I had on my DirecTivos?


Well, that you cannot do.

Wow. 100+. How long did it take the Tivo to generate the list of results? I had only about 6 or so back then and it took several minutes!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I never liked the auto record though. I just don't trust them. I want it to record EXACTLY what I want, and NOTHING else [...]


Exact matches aren't an issue on the HR2x if you know the movie or show title. You can just say *word1 word2 TTITLE* and it will just record movies with title words in that specific order.

Each AUTORECORD counts against the 50 limit tho, so you'd never be able to replicate 100's of saved searches without some multiple keyword maneuvering.

I do find it interesting that you and Alan, e.g, have the patience to maintain 100's of saved Wish List searches. Just the thought of entering them using the remote for text entry makes my fingers hurt. 

I wonder if, by now, one of the major TV websites like TitanTV or TVGuide.com offers "saved search" capability with e-mail notification when a movie or show may be airing? Anyone know? If you're not currently auto-recording Wish List requests, such a feature might actually work even better, since notifications would be pushed to you, instead of having to remember to run the WL search periodically.


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## Rikinky (Mar 4, 2010)

What is the difference between the DVR vs The Tivo? Which is better?


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Wow. 100+. How long did it take the Tivo to generate the list of results? I had only about 6 or so back then and it took several minutes!


I had 100+ wishlists on my DirecTiVo, and remember it usually taking about 2 minutes to generate the list of "all matching programs."

I suspect the reason the HR2x DVRs don't have that "all matching programs" functionality is similar to the reason they're limited to 50 Series Links, and I suspect that reason is to try to avoid that period of non-responsiveness.



Steve said:


> I do find it interesting that you and Alan, e.g, have the patience to maintain 100's of saved Wish List searches. Just the thought of entering them using the remote for text entry makes my fingers hurt.


Well, you only have to enter them once...


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

hancox said:


> I simply want an HR10-250-equivalent with:
> 
> 1) MPEG4 Tuning
> 2) Working OTA (improved tuner would be a nice-to-have), with scanning
> ...


+1


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## dbsdave (May 1, 2007)

What I want is to be able to fully integrate directv with windows media center, like with most cable, fios etc. I doubt a directv tivo will allow for this, nor have I heard any word of a directv unit that will since they axed the hdpc. I already have a mrv setup using a pc and extenders, everything can be viewed everywhere except directv.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Rikinky said:


> What is the difference between the DVR vs The Tivo? Which is better?


Nobody's seen the new HD DirecTV/Tivo, so we don't know.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

With the FCCs ruling on the "home gateway", I wonder if either side is as motivated to persue this TiVO powered DirecTV unit?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect you know the correct answer to your own question - we don't know enough details to make such a comparison until we see what is actually contained within a new production DirecTV Tivo unit itself.
> 
> That said, *we now know the new things* that the HR24 unit bring to the table -so the other half of the story is still TBD (to be determined).


No, we don't. Not yet. The code needs to be branched to take advantage of the HR24's speed, for instance by upping or removing the limit on SLs. 'Nuff said, since this is OT.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> ... *saved searches on the HR2x can't be protected* from "oldest first" deleting once you hit a 25 limit, and can't be run all at once. Those deficiencies are the genesis of this HR2x Wish List request:
> 
> *RECENT SEARCH capabilities as follows: Permit saved SEARCH editing; Restore Mark & Delete for saved searches; Display a "match count" for each SEARCH; Offer an "Episodes List" containing all RECENT SEARCH hits. *


So where's the wish to either protect saved searches or allow a greater number of them? TiVo has no limit on saved Wishlist entries.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Since no one to date *knows any real detailed content *to be contained in this new device (hardware or firmware), I am taking the approach of "wait and see' for those details, prior to getting any emotional equity into it.


Ironically, I'm starting to even doubt one of the features announced to be on the new unit... namely that of Swivel Search... a feature that has pretty much been replaced on stand-alone units since the TiVo/DirecTV announcement by TiVo Search.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Wow. 100+. How long did it take the Tivo to generate the list of results? I had only about 6 or so back then and it took several minutes!


The HR10-250 has improved, but can still be fairly slow depending on the day. However, considering what all it's doing, it's not too bad.

The TiVo Series 3 can actually bring up results from MULTIPLE Wishlists (often) faster than the HR20/HR23 can do one search.



Steve said:


> I do find it interesting that you and Alan, e.g, have the patience to maintain 100's of saved Wish List searches. Just the thought of entering them using the remote for text entry makes my fingers hurt.


Mine have amassed over time. Now if I used the Search function on the HR2x, that would wear my fingers out! 



Steve said:


> I wonder if, by now, one of the major TV websites like TitanTV or TVGuide.com offers "saved search" capability with e-mail notification when a movie or show may be airing? Anyone know? If you're not currently auto-recording Wish List requests, such a feature might actually work even better, since notifications would be pushed to you, instead of having to remember to run the WL search periodically.


Shame DirecTV.com doesn't offer this feature... However, it really doesn't matter to me...

I liked the ability to not only be able to do it via the TV, I liked the ability to be able to set it to record via the TV.

~Alan


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

I would gladly walk away from TIVO if DTV would fix the base problems with their DVR's.
Record something. Play something. Respond quickly to remote commands. All the fancy bells and whistles they've added frustrates me to no end because the perception is that there is nothing being done to fix the audio & response issues.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mjbvideo said:


> I would gladly walk away from TIVO if DTV would fix the base problems with their DVR's.
> *Record something. Play something. Respond quickly to remote commands*. All the fancy bells and whistles they've added frustrates me to no end because the perception is that there is nothing being done to fix the audio & response issues.


Start walking - we're there.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Start walking - we're there.


We're 2/3 there. I'd say the "respond quickly" component still needs some work, although it has improved.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> We're 2/3 there. I'd say the "respond quickly" component still needs some work, although it has improved.


It's gotten worse lately on my HR23.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> We're 2/3 there. I'd say the "respond quickly" component still needs some work, although it has improved.


The HR24 responds quickly. So, we are there.

My warhorse machine, my HR20 responds quickly. So does the HR20 in the bedroom. The HR21, not so much.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> The HR24 responds quickly. So, we are there.
> 
> My warhorse machine, my HR20 responds quickly. So does the HR20 in the bedroom. The HR21, not so much.


I have two HR20s that are better then the HR21, 22 and 23 that I have had. By a lot. I'm not going to buy new HR24's though just to make them a little faster with no added features.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bakerfall said:


> I have two HR20s that are better then the HR21, 22 and 23 that I have had. By a lot. I'm not going to buy new HR24's though just to make them a little faster with no added features.


Certainly your choice - but if you read the First Look that was published on the HR24 - it is clear that there is much more to the new HR24 than just the speed improvements.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

mjbvideo said:


> I would gladly walk away from TIVO if DTV would fix the base problems with their DVR's.
> *Record something. Play something. Respond quickly to remote commands.* All the fancy bells and whistles they've added frustrates me to no end because the perception is that there is nothing being done to fix the audio & response issues.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Start walking - we're there.


"Record something," yes. Record everything you request? Not so much.

But this is not the thread for throwing brickbats at the HR2x. There are plenty of other threads for that.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Certainly your choice - but if you read the First Look that was published on the HR24 - it is clear that there is much more to the new HR24 than just the speed improvements.


Like what? I've read the first look. Yes there are some cosmetic changes, but functionally the only real change is the speed. No new features (other than integrated DECA), no new GUI (this one is a killer, this box should have been launched with an HD GUI). Maybe that HD GUI is still coming out, maybe they'll integrate Netflix or something else, maybe they'll give you the ability to put your recordings on your iPhone (like U-Verse is going to do). It just isn't there yet, and that's what makes me look around at other options.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> Like what? I've read the first look. Yes there are some cosmetic changes, but functionally the only real change is the speed [...]


Yup. Even though they may be more capable boxes because of faster CPU's and (I assume) more memory, it probably wouldn't be good business for DirecTV to add new functionality or features to the HR24's that can't be retrofitted to the millions of 20/21/22/23's already deployed in the field. Those boxes probably have a couple more years of useful service life, if not longer.

When they come out with the "home media server", that could be another story. Just my .02.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Steve said:


> When they come out with the "home media server", that could be another story. Just my .02.


SADLY, I agree.... 

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bakerfall said:


> Like what? I've read the first look. Yes there are some cosmetic changes, but functionally the only real change is the *speed*.


That's the big one, but not the only one.

Internal DECA is a big thing. A new processor, video, and network upgrades are other big ones...there are others. Perhaps these don't matter to everyone, but they would to anyone seeing where video streaming, MRV, and network connectivity are going with DirecTV and their HD DVRs.

Different strokes.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's the big one, but not the only one.
> 
> Internal DECA is a big thing. A new processor, video, and network upgrades are other big ones...there are others. Perhaps these don't matter to everyone, but they would to anyone seeing where video streaming, MRV, and network connectivity are going with DirecTV and their HD DVRs.
> 
> Different strokes.


That's fine and dandy, but MRV actually works great with my current boxes and I have wired ethernet in my house, so no need for deca. My point is, other then better performance, these boxes net me NOTHING. So it's not worth an added cost. If I was buying new boxes, sure. I have 4 HR2X already and nothing in the HR24 warrants spending $200 to replace one.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bakerfall said:


> That's fine and dandy, but MRV actually works great with my current boxes and I have wired ethernet in my house, so no need for deca. My point is, other then better performance, these boxes net me NOTHING. So it's not worth an added cost. If I was buying new boxes, sure. I have 4 HR2X already and nothing in the HR24 warrants spending $200 to replace one.


The HR24 is not about a single feature or issue.

With 4 HR2x units already, you likely don't have a reason to jump and get a new/replacement unit this minute. Others could.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Internal DECA is a big thing.


I don't see it as a big thing simply because it can be added to any other receiver with a simple adapter. It's convenient, but it's not big. The big things are the things that can't be added to the older receivers, like the faster processor.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> *I don't see it as a big thing *simply because it can be added to any other receiver with a simple adapter. It's convenient, but it's not big. The big things are the things that can't be added to the older receivers, like the faster processor.


Others do, and more will as time goes on.


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## YCT (Mar 16, 2008)

Will HR24 units be capable of streaming Netflix?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Internal DECA is a big thing.





Jeremy W said:


> I don't see it as a big thing simply because it can be added to any other receiver with a simple adapter. It's convenient, but it's not big. The big things are the things that can't be added to the older receivers, like the faster processor.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Others do, and more will as time goes on.


I stated in the HR24-500 First Look thread that I don't consider Internal DECA to be a big thing either. My DECA adapters work just fine with my HR23-700 and HR20-700.

From the First Look document, speed does appear to be the big change. As someone who uses an HR23-700 as their main DVR, I can see how that would be a HUGE upgrade in and of itself. Of course, whether or not that is worth $200 is up to the individual person.

While I agree with Steve that DirecTV may choose to wait until the Home Media Server before making any drastic changes to features/GUI, DirecTV COULD make changes to the HR24... thereby making that $200 cost more acceptable to subscribers with older equipment.

~Alan


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Highly doubtful. It is also doubtful that the new DirecTivo will either. D* has said on a few occasions that they are planning to offer a "Netflix like service" soon, so they would be hurting themselves if they included it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> [...] While I agree with Steve that DirecTV may choose to wait until the Home Media Server before making any drastic changes to features/GUI, DirecTV COULD make changes to the HR24... thereby making that $200 cost more acceptable to subscribers with older equipment [...]


Actually, I think an HD GUI is probably something that can be deployed across the board today (HR20-24).

I was thinking that we may not see any new functionality (like a master scheduler, e.g.) until the HMC-30 is out. Just a WAG on my part, tho.

RE: DECA, unless there's something we don't know and it somehow works _better_ inside the HR24 than as an "add-on" for the HR20-23's, I agree that having it built-in is probably more a convenience (and manufacturing cost reduction) than anything else.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

They should have added PIP on the 24. Double play is nice, but I want to be able to "see" whats going on on both tuners at the same time, its good for sports.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> They should have added PIP on the 24.


There's a good chance that DirecTV wants to keep feature-parity across the HR2x line, so they wouldn't do that.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> Yup. Even though they [HR24s] may be more capable boxes because of faster CPU's and (I assume) more memory, it probably wouldn't be good business for DirecTV to add new functionality or features to the HR24's that can't be retrofitted to the millions of 20/21/22/23's already deployed in the field. Those boxes probably have a couple more years of useful service life, if not longer.
> 
> When they come out with the "home media server", that could be another story. Just my .02.





Jeremy W said:


> There's a good chance that DirecTV wants to keep feature-parity across the HR2x line, so they wouldn't do that.


Great. So you two are thinking that DirecTV doesn't even dare to relax the SL limit on HR24s? Holy crap, that would really suck. And it would make the new TiVo ever so much more attractive.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's the big one, but not the only one.
> 
> Internal DECA is a big thing.





Jeremy W said:


> I don't see it as a big thing simply because it can be added to any other receiver with a simple adapter. It's convenient, but it's not big.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Others do, and more will as time goes on.





Alan Gordon said:


> I stated in the HR24-500 First Look thread that I don't consider Internal DECA to be a big thing either. My DECA adapters work just fine with my HR23-700 and HR20-700.


As cool as the internal DECA may be, (doesn't bring tremendous appeal to me though) won't some people need to connect a dongle from the HR24/H24 to their router/switch for 'On Demand, DirecTV2PC and Media Share"? Honestly, I always get confused about that.

I am intrigued by the HR24/H24 though for the speed and quietness which has been noted.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Yes if they want to use On Demand, Media Share, or DirecTV2PC they will have to have a DECA adapter somewhere hooked up to their home network. It doesn't have to be anywhere near any of their receivers though.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Great. So you two are thinking that DirecTV doesn't even dare to relax the SL limit on HR24s? Holy crap, that would really suck. And it would make the new TiVo ever so much more attractive.


I don't believe that's the case. I honestly don't think the 50 limit is a current h/w limitation, based upon the speed at which I see some SL's auto-populate the TO DO list on my R22-200, e.g.

I just don't think upping the limit is a high priority, especially if there may be other planned updates to the scheduler. Pure speculation on my part, tho.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mikeny said:


> As cool as the internal DECA may be, (doesn't bring tremendous appeal to me though) won't some people need to connect a dongle from the HR24/H24 to their router/switch for 'On Demand, DirecTV2PC and Media Share"?


The home router will always need its own dedicated DECA module to serve up a DECA cloud with the non-DECA content. The H(R)24 can only connect to one or the other network, not both.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I am sure some of you can think of questions to ask Tom Rogers.

Post your questions for TiVo CEO Tom Rogers on CNET.Com


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Certainly your choice - but if you read the First Look that was published on the HR24 - it is clear that there is much more to the new HR24 than just the speed improvements.


Two-way remote and native DECA would seem to be the other functional advantages.


----------



## skidadesert79 (Sep 17, 2008)

Okay Tivo fans this just came through on the Facebook page...

Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year. You can sign up for email updates at http://www.tivo.com/directv.

http://www.tivo.com/products/source/satellite/tivo-directv/index.html

For what its worth...


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

> Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the *second half* of the year.


SIGH... 

~Alan


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

skidadesert79 said:


> Okay Tivo fans this just came through on the Facebook page...
> 
> Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year. You can sign up for email updates at http://www.tivo.com/directv.
> 
> ...


Although it's implied, they're not exactly saying that they're talking about the second half of _2010_.


----------



## skidadesert79 (Sep 17, 2008)

Yeah, I was curious what "and we’re looking toward implementing the second half of the year" means. Does that mean they are looking forward to implementing the Directv Tivo or just simply looking forward to going forward with the second half of the year implemenation plans...

Tricky laywer talk I think.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Great. So you two are thinking that DirecTV doesn't even dare to relax the SL limit on HR24s? Holy crap, that would really suck. And it would make the new TiVo ever so much more attractive.


How many SL do you need? With MRV, I think having 50/HR, you'd be set.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> How many SL do you need? With MRV, I think having 50/HR, you'd be set.


Can we PLEASE not go down that road, AGAIN?!

There are reasons why *SOME* of us want more than 50 Series Links on an HR2x.

~Alan


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Can we PLEASE not go down that road, AGAIN?!
> 
> There are reasons why *SOME* of us want more than 50 Series Links on an HR2x.
> 
> ~Alan


I guess I missed that road.  It makes logical sense...50/HR with 4 HRs gives 200 SLs and 8 tuners. Watch any recording from anywhere.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess I missed that road.  It makes logical sense...50/HR with 4 HRs gives 200 SLs and 8 tuners. Watch any recording from anywhere.


Not everybody has 4 HR2xs.
Some people have 4 HR2xs, but refuse to pay for MRV.
Some people have 1 HR2x, but 3 H2x STBs.

Then of course, there are people like me who just want it regardless.

~Alan


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess I missed that road.  It makes logical sense...50/HR with 4 HRs gives 200 SLs and 8 tuners. Watch any recording from anywhere.


I know I'm in the minority of the minority, lol, but I like EVERYTHING backed up. Therefore, if I have 4 HRs recording because of the 2 tuner/50SL limit, I also need ANOTHER 4 going to make sure everything has a copy. If we had an HR with 4 tuners and no SL limits, I'd need only 2 HRs.


----------



## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess I missed that road.  It makes logical sense...50/HR with 4 HRs gives 200 SLs and 8 tuners. Watch any recording from anywhere.


I D offered collaborated scheduling your argument would hold some (not much) water.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Not everybody has 4 HR2xs.


They don't? (My HR24 makes 4.)


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I know I'm in the minority of the minority, lol, but I like EVERYTHING backed up. Therefore, if I have 4 HRs recording because of the 2 tuner/50SL limit, I also need ANOTHER 4 going to make sure everything has a copy. If we had an HR with 4 tuners and no SL limits, I'd need only 2 HRs.


:lol: You love your TV.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> Not everybody has 4 HR2xs.





David Ortiz said:


> They don't? (My HR24 makes 4.)


Nope! Some may only have one DVR.

Others may have none, though they probably couldn't care less about the 50 Series Link Limit! 

~Alan


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

skidadesert79 said:


> Yeah, I was curious what "and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year" means. Does that mean they are looking forward to implementing the Directv Tivo or just simply looking forward to going forward with the second half of the year implemenation plans...
> 
> Tricky laywer talk I think.


Not so much tricky as ungrammatical, I think. Literally, the closest logical interpretation would be that they're looking forward to doing their "implementing" thing *throughout* the second half of the year. Which of course means no new TiVo this year.


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: You love your TV.


Yup lol


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Syzygy said:


> Not so much tricky as ungrammatical, I think. Literally, the closest logical interpretation would be that they're looking forward to doing their "implementing" thing *throughout* the second half of the year. Which of course means no new TiVo this year.


Ha, the first thing that popped into my mid was "what year?"


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

skidadesert79 said:


> Yeah, I was curious what "and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year" means. Does that mean they are looking forward to implementing the Directv Tivo or just simply looking forward to going forward with the second half of the year implemenation plans...
> 
> Tricky laywer talk I think.


It meant they were looking forward to the day that the second half of the year is to begin


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess I missed that road.  It makes logical sense...50/HR with 4 HRs gives 200 SLs and 8 tuners. Watch any recording from anywhere.





ffemtreed said:


> *[If]* D offered collaborated scheduling your argument would hold some (not much) water.


Collaborative scheduling (aka a Unified Series Manager) would be a virtual reservoir for me. 

Based on our needs, even if they upped the hard limit to 100, having only 2 tuners to schedule them on isn't nearly as useful as having a "virtual" 100 limit with 4 tuners to schedule on. A USM would make it a piece of cake to manage.

That's just me, tho. YMMV.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

skidadesert79 said:


> Okay Tivo fans this just came through on the Facebook page...
> 
> Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year. You can sign up for email updates at http://www.tivo.com/directv.
> 
> ...





Alan Gordon said:


> > Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the *second half* of the year.
> 
> 
> SIGH...
> ...


:scratchin .. Maybe my clicking ability is broken, but I don't see that quote from the links above.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> :scratchin .. Maybe my clicking ability is broken, but I don't see that quote from the links above.


The quote was from TiVo's Facebook page:



> Development on the DirecTV TiVo DVR is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year. You can sign up for email updates at http://www.tivo.com/directv


TiVo's Facebook Page

~Alan


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm sorry I haven't read through all the posts... I don't really have any interest in Tivo but come on, how long does it take to make one of these? I had an HR10, I know they can get satellite to work with their interface. What's left? Change the MPEG2 to MPEG4? Does it really take that long?


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

matt1124 said:


> I'm sorry I haven't read through all the posts... I don't really have any interest in Tivo but come on, how long does it take to make one of these? I had an HR10, I know they can get satellite to work with their interface. What's left? Change the MPEG2 to MPEG4? Does it really take that long?


Exactly. And this is JUST software, not even hardware. They can't get a piece of software out in this amount of time? Something else is going on here.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

kevinturcotte said:


> Exactly. And this is JUST software, not even hardware. They can't get a piece of software out in this amount of time? Something else is going on here.


I don't know. I'm starting to not even care anymore... 

There are multiple features I miss that I had with TiVo, and no longer have with the HR2x. Features I will unfortunately, most likely continue to miss, as I'm not sure these features are high on DirecTV's list to fix/add.

However, now that I've found out that DirecTV will be offering LIL here in a few months, I will most likely have to replace some DirecTiVos, and TiVo may miss the boat in having them replaced by a TiVo. 

Hopefully the HR24-500 or HMC will be available by then. I don't want another HR23-700! 

~Alan


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

This is the tweet that I see:


TiVo said:


> Dev is still moving along, and we're looking toward implementing the second half of the year.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Unfortunately none of this is anything new. Tivo CEO already announced "later this year" a few weeks back. Of course I guess "2nd half" narrows it down a bit.


----------



## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> I don't know. I'm starting to not even care anymore...


I know I stopped caring, but then I made the jump to FiOS when I found the TiVo HDs on clearance at Sears. The only reason I keep up is because the people I know who won't leave Directv due to Sunday Ticket like my father keep bugging me about when the new TiVo will be out so he can make the jump to HD.

When DirecTV changed it so his 10 year old Sony receiver no longer worked with Sunday Ticket, I hoped he would like the replacement since it had the DirecTV UI so that he could at least go to HD. He hated it and a month later sent it back. He ended up just not keeping Directv in that room so he is down to his 4 DirecTivos he still has working.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Unfortunately none of this is anything new. Tivo CEO already announced "later this year" a few weeks back. Of course I guess "2nd half" narrows it down a bit.


Next month is later this year.

DirecTV was still saying 2nd quarter. Now it's 2nd half... FROM TiVo!

Granted, 2nd half could be June/July, but if anything, I'm now thinking Late Summer/Late Fall.... if then.

~Alan


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Next month is later this year.
> 
> DirecTV was still saying 2nd quarter. Now it's 2nd half... FROM TiVo!
> 
> ...


Businesses don't usually say "second half" if they mean June or July. They would say "summer" or third quarter. Second half sounds better than fourth quarter and it usually means more like that.


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Are we sure they didn't mean second half of this *DECADE*? lol


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Coming soon 1Q2011


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> Coming soon 1Q2011


you know the song "In the Year 2525" just popped into my head when I read this


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Businesses don't usually say "second half" if they mean June or July. They would say "summer" or third quarter. Second half sounds better than fourth quarter and it usually means more like that.


To be fair, it was a Tweet .. but still ..

I've already joined Stuart in saying 1Q2011, but if we don't see it by CES2011, I'll call it dead.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> To be fair, it was a Tweet .. but still ..
> 
> I've already joined Stuart in saying 1Q2011, but *if we don't see it by CES2011, I'll call it dead*.


I'm already planning on doing my "Dead DVR Walking" status checkup at CES 2011.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Businesses don't usually say "second half" if they mean June or July. They would say "summer" or third quarter. Second half sounds better than fourth quarter and it usually means more like that.


Honestly, that was kind of my point...

Previously, I had some modicum of hope that it might be out this Summer. Now, I doubt it will be out prior to September... and that's being generous.

~Alan


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> To be fair, it was a Tweet .. but still ..
> 
> I've already joined Stuart in saying 1Q2011, but if we don't see it by CES2011, I'll call it dead.


Yup. If they can't deliver a piece of software after, what, 3 years, I'd call it dead. Especially since we've heard NOTHING since they initial announcement, other than "6 more months."


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Hey, this looks kewl:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

smiddy said:


> Hey, this looks kewl:


Double deckered peanut. 

Cool indeed.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

smiddy said:


> Hey, this looks kewl:


Useless to me. I will never use a peanut remote. I hate those things. Bad placement of buttons and clumsy handling. Every peanut I ever had went in the drawer right after I copied the buttons to my programmable remote.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

That's the new bluetooth remote for the new Premiere Tivo. Integrates a QWERTY keyboard for searching. Not sure if that would work on the new MPEG-4 DirecTivo or not. The Premiere doesn't have a built in bluetooth receiver, but will have a USB adapter dongle for the back of the unit. I see no reason, from a technical standpoint, why Directv couldn't have this work with the new DirecTivo (Or any of their receivers).


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Useless to me. I will never use a peanut remote. I hate those things. Bad placement of buttons and clumsy handling. Every peanut I ever had went in the drawer right after I copied the buttons to my programmable remote.


I agree. I was never a fan of the peanut remote. Wonder if Directv could do a similar slider designed remote though (Keep the overall design and layout the same, just have it slide). I *DO* like the integrated QWERTY keyboard.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I agree. I was never a fan of the peanut remote. Wonder if Directv could do a similar slider designed remote though (Keep the overall design and layout the same, just have it slide). I *DO* like the integrated QWERTY keyboard.


I'd only like it if the remote were 100% learnable and does not depend on touch screens at all or uses Harmony-type logic.

All my remotes are lots of hard buttons and 100% learnable so I can configure them myself.

I find the mobile phone style typing on DirecTV to be pretty good. They have a similiar setup for Fios as an option. Works well also.


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I'd only like it if the remote were 100% learnable and does not depend on touch screens at all or uses Harmony-type logic.
> 
> All my remotes are lots of hard buttons and 100% learnable so I can configure them myself.
> 
> I find the mobile phone style typing on DirecTV to be pretty good. They have a similiar setup for Fios as an option. Works well also.


Harmony-type logic?
It's also got to control the receiver in some way OTHER than IR for me to even consider it!


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I like the QWERTY keyboard but it seems that with all that space they could have made the keys bigger. Best option of all would be if you could just plug a keyboard into the daing thing.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Best option of all would be if you could just plug a keyboard into the daing thing.


You can. The QWERTY remote is implemented as a standard Bluetooth keyboard. Any USB keyboard can be plugged in.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You see, something to like about a TiVo product. And you all said I was so negative :lol:


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Mrs. Smiddy is calling me a pessimist these days, so now what?


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

CNet has an interview with Tom Rogers at http://news.cnet.com/8301-30966_3-20002650-262.html .

_"I sat down with TiVo CEO Tom Rogers this week, and don't worry: I asked him about the DirectTV TiVo right off the bat. Of all the things you wanted to hear from him, whether it be whole-home streaming, built-in Wi-Fi, Comcast deals, or the origin of the "ba-doop-a-doop" sound, the single most oft-asked question was about DirecTV. You'll be happy to know he did promise a box by the second half of the year, but less happy to know that he wouldn't really get into many specifics about what it will look like. My impression was that, most likely, it won't be one of those fancy new Premiere boxes. Sorry."_


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

"It would be a new box." *?!?!?!*


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

RAD said:


> My impression was that, most likely, it won't be one of those fancy new Premiere boxes. Sorry."[/i]


Well....DUH....he already told us that a month ago. :lol:


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RAD said:


> You'll be happy to know he did promise a box by the second half of the year, but less happy to know that he wouldn't really get into many specifics about what it will look like.


And the sentence parsers go wild exclaiming that "by the second half" means before July 1st.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Who cares what it looks like at this point? I don't think it even exists.


----------



## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I got a chuckle out of that interview, goin' a little OT, when Molly mentions Media Center as a no subscription alternative to TiVo and Rogers just passes it off as a niche, techie-based product, and it seemed Molly had to remind him that's the kind of thing the C|Net audience focuses on.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Tivo CEO said:


> He seems optimistic that cable and satellite operators are starting to see the value in a box like TiVo, or an interface like TiVo, but hedges that things "move slowly."


:lol:

He's been saying this same thing for nearly 8-10 years now. So they are "starting" to see value for the last 8 years? LOL


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

A picture is worth a thousand words...


----------



## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

This place is harsh!


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Well....DUH....he already told us that a month ago. :lol:


And I know there are those who refused to see it, but the words "New Box" appear twice in the announcement PR from many decades ago (OK, it just seems like that long)


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Well technically it is a "new box" for Tivo. Doesn't mean it's not hardware already out there. But it is a new box. It's not the same old HR10 modified for example.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It'll be hardware from DIRECTV's existing fleet .. It will run TiVo software.

I think it will be either an HR21 or HR23 based on the timing of everything, but strange things could happen and it could be based on the HR24 I suppose. Problem with that (of course) is that the HR24 is NXP .. The Broadcom processor in the earlier models would be much more familiar territory for TiVo.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

_"You're a jerk, Dent." -alien
"Huh?" -Arthur Dent
"Are you Arthur Dent?" -alien
"...Uh..." -Arthur Dent
"Arthur Philip Dent?" -alien
(nods)- Arthur Dent
"Arthur Dent, you are a jerk. A complete kneebiter." -alien
"But... ah... boh... buthuh... anneh... huh?" _

-Douglas Adams, Life, the Universe, and Everything


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> It'll be hardware from DIRECTV's existing fleet .. It will run TiVo software.
> 
> I think it will be either an HR21 or HR23 based on the timing of everything, but strange things could happen and it could be based on the HR24 I suppose. Problem with that (of course) is that the HR24 is NXP .. The Broadcom processor in the earlier models would be much more familiar territory for TiVo.


If they go with the HR21 or 23, I would assume it would also work of the HR20 and 22? And if they do that, any technical reason the software couldn't go on the HR24, or the forthcoming (When it shows up in 3 years along with the Tivo software lol) HMC30?
Or is that maybe Directv's plan (You *KNOW* they want you using the Directv software version of the DVR)? "You *CAN* have Tivo software, but it's on the older, slower receivers. Or you can the Directv software on the newer, faster receivers, or our whole house solution!"


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

I hope things are not that Machiavellian. 

I am also expecting older hardware simply because I think porting to NXP is too much for TiVo to chew on right now.

I would hope that once that is out there, DirecTV and TiVo will talk about moving up to the HR24 in further rounds of development. 

I also think that DirecTV will want to give the TiVo software a reasonably fair shake to see if Google like search and interactive ads will make them more money than their current platform does.

Still I want to know if the new TiVo will do MRV or streaming. So far there is zero word on that from a source I am willing to believe.


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> I hope things are not that Machiavellian.
> 
> I am also expecting older hardware simply because I think porting to NXP is too much for TiVo to chew on right now.
> 
> ...


If they basically intend to port the HR10-250 software over to the HR2x line (Basically an HR10-250 with MPEG-4 decoders, no MRV, or anything new), they pretty much might as well give up now. As much as I like Tivo, it's not happening without MRV, and I think a LOT of others would agree with me.
Also not happening if they can't do that "Thing" that the HR2x boxes do that allows you to technically record more than 2 "Streams" as long as their on the same channel. If you haven't noticed your box doing this before, basically I use it every Sunday night there are new episodes of The Simpsons, The Cleveland Show, Family Guy, and American Dad. Because football may be on earlier, and run over, I set each Series Link to go an extra hour, with American Dad going an extra 1 1/2 hours. So at 9, technically, The Simpsons are still recording, The Cleveland Show is still recording, and Family Guy starts recording, so basically 3 "Streams" are recording, because they're all on the same channel. I've confirmed that NO Tivo can currently do this.


----------



## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> If they basically intend to port the HR10-250 software over to the HR2x line (Basically an HR10-250 with MPEG-4 decoders, no MRV, or anything new), they pretty much might as well give up now. As much as I like Tivo, it's not happening without MRV, and I think a LOT of others would agree with me.
> Also not happening if they can't do that "Thing" that the HR2x boxes do that allows you to technically record more than 2 "Streams" as long as their on the same channel. If you haven't noticed your box doing this before, basically I use it every Sunday night there are new episodes of The Simpsons, The Cleveland Show, Family Guy, and American Dad. Because football may be on earlier, and run over, I set each Series Link to go an extra hour, with American Dad going an extra 1 1/2 hours. So at 9, technically, The Simpsons are still recording, The Cleveland Show is still recording, and Family Guy starts recording, so basically 3 "Streams" are recording, because they're all on the same channel. I've confirmed that NO Tivo can currently do this.


Sounds like you are recording the same show several times. Am I missing something here? What is the benefit?


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> Sounds like you are recording the same show several times. Am I missing something here? What is the benefit?


The benefit is that I actually manage to have all the shows record if they run long because of football. All of the shows aren't always new episodes, so they might not record.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

That IS one of the best improvements on the DirecTV DVRs over the TiVos!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Based on the report of a CNET interview with Tivo's President (on TVpredictions.com), there appears to be yet another delay in the new Tivobox release....there's not alot of details...just the report is is delayed further.

Looks like "some time in 2010" continues to look bleaker and bleaker...


----------



## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> The benefit is that I actually manage to have all the shows record if they run long because of football. All of the shows aren't always new episodes, so they might not record.


The HR also gives you the one minute auto pad on both sides. Rather annoying when you are watching a show real time (gasp) prior to two shows recording. But very nice so you don't miss that last snippet of show after the last commercial. Like the last gag in the Simpsons or Community. When you are recording Fox on Sundays, the Simpsons rolls into Cleveland which rolls into Family Guy et.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

RAD said:


> ...You'll be happy to know he did promise a box by the second half of the year...


But did he promise he'd still be TiVo CEO by then? If not, can you count on that promise? TiVo is now rumored to be one of the top four takeover targets by CNBC. CNBC was founded by Rogers.

In the event of a change of control, I doubt Rogers will stick around.


----------



## Mark Walters (Sep 21, 2009)

More delays... today we here about the D12 delay and now the D* TIVO HD delay. Until then, happy lagging HR* boxes. :nono2:

http://cnettv.cnet.com/tivo-ceo-directv-box-coming-soon/9742-1_53-50086333.html?tag=mncol

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dtivo041610.htm


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mark Walters said:


> More delays... today we here about the D12 delay and now the D* TIVO HD delay. Until then, happy lagging HR* boxes. :nono2:
> 
> http://cnettv.cnet.com/tivo-ceo-directv-box-coming-soon/9742-1_53-50086333.html?tag=mncol
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dtivo041610.htm


Tivos are lag free, huh? Hmm, I guess you haven't followed reviews about Tivo Premier at Tivo sites.


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## Mark Walters (Sep 21, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> Tivos are lag free, huh? Hmm, I guess you haven't followed reviews about Tivo Premier at Tivo sites.


No way, don't tell me that. I haven't followed since I don't have cable and figure the D* box will be different from the Premier. No chance they can be as bad as these HR* boxes. It's taking nearly two years to build or release this thing -- I gotta believe lagging will not be an issue.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Mark Walters said:


> No way, don't tell me that. I haven't followed since I don't have cable and figure the D* box will be different from the Premier. No chance they can be as bad as these HR* boxes. It's taking nearly two years to build or release this thing -- I gotta believe lagging will not be an issue.


Well...Tivo is really _lagging_ in getting the thing out the door.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> Tivos are lag free, huh? Hmm, I guess you haven't followed reviews about Tivo Premier at Tivo sites.


Way to leap to DirecTV's defense, stud! That's like saying, "So, you think *my *girlfriend is slow? Well, your girl's cousin is slow too! So there!"


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

For anyone upgrading in the near future, and getting an HR24, lagging will never be an issue again... For the most part, it really boils down to gui preference more than anything else...


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Mark Walters said:


> More delays... today we here about the D12 delay and now the D* TIVO HD delay. Until then, happy lagging HR* boxes. :nono2:
> 
> http://cnettv.cnet.com/tivo-ceo-directv-box-coming-soon/9742-1_53-50086333.html?tag=mncol
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dtivo041610.htm


Once again CNet and Swanni are "Captain Obvious" about something that Tivo already announced 3 months ago. Why is this all of a sudden something new to these people?


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Way to leap to DirecTV's defense, stud! That's like saying, "So, you think *my *girlfriend is slow? Well, your girl's cousin is slow too! So there!"


Truth hurts you Tivoholics, huh? It's just too much too accept that your beloved Tivo has issues.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> This place is harsh!


I guess this serves a warning sign for TiVo. How well does TiVo's biggest client think of TiVo certainly means a lot.

I just don't see anything in the pipeline so compelling that any DirecTV sub will be willing to pay a significantly higher fee for this vaporware, bypassing the new DirecTV DVRs such as the HR24 or the new DVR server.

That is to assume the vapor will actually turn into something.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Way to leap to DirecTV's defense, stud! That's like saying, "So, you think *my *girlfriend is slow? Well, your girl's cousin is slow too! So there!"





sigma1914 said:


> Truth hurts you Tivoholics, huh? It's just too much too accept that your beloved Tivo has issues.


Seriously guys?! Seriously?! 



inkahauts said:


> For anyone upgrading in the near future, and getting an HR24, lagging will never be an issue again... For the most part, it really boils down to gui preference more than anything else...


Thank you for some wisdom in this thread.

Yeah, I think "timing" is a big issue.

I've made no secret of my preference for TiVo's GUI and feature-set compared to the HR2x's.... which is why I was intending to replace my two DirecTiVos with newer DirecTiVo's.

However, with my locals coming online in a few months, I'm not sure I will be waiting. It will be dependent upon whether or not the HR24 is available by then, and whether or not any more details about the new TiVo have been announced.

~Alan


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Seriously guys?! Seriously?!
> 
> ...
> ~Alan


It wasn't personal, he's a self admitted Tivoholic (see his sig). Pointing out the inadequacies of HR2x units are common from the Tivoholics...so, it's only fair to acknowledge Tivo's shortcomings.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> It wasn't personal, he's a self admitted Tivoholic (see his sig). Pointing out the inadequacies of HR2x units are common from the Tivoholics...so, it's only fair to acknowledge Tivo's shortcomings.


I know all about Tivoholics (I'm one), and I point out the inadequacies of the HR2x all the time. 

BTW, I wasn't singling you out. I was commenting to him as well! 

~Alan


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys .. :backtotop


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> It'll be hardware from DIRECTV's existing fleet .. It will run TiVo software.
> 
> I think it will be either an HR21 or HR23 based on the timing of everything, but strange things could happen and it could be based on the HR24 I suppose. Problem with that (of course) is that the HR24 is NXP .. The Broadcom processor in the earlier models would be much more familiar territory for TiVo.


AFAIC, the only feasible reason Tivo can justify the delay being this long is being on HR24-class-kit. If it's on Broadcom, thus very similar to their existing (legacy) boxes, it only means that Tivo is pretty much down the tubes.

Hurts me to say it.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Thread went 9 days without a post ... may be an indicator ...

With no disrespect to TiVo, or those that prefer the TiVo interface, TiVo's opportunity for any significant penetration may have passed.

Again, no disrespect, but with the HR24 rolling out, it just doesn't seem likely for TiVo to get much share, especially if the monthly fee is higher.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Thread went 9 days without a post ... may be an indicator ...
> 
> With no disrespect to TiVo, or those that prefer the TiVo interface, TiVo's opportunity for any significant penetration may have passed.
> 
> Again, no disrespect, but with the HR24 rolling out, it just doesn't seem likely for TiVo to get much share, especially if the monthly fee is higher.


I love Tivo and miss Tivo, but if they don't deliver a decent product in all fo this. Well then, they can rot in hell - and rightly so. This thing has gone on so long that its become a joke. :nono2:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

What I don't get is why anyone is surprised, given how long the Comcast-Tivo box took.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> What I don't get is why anyone is surprised, given how long the Comcast-Tivo box took.


I'm surprised because the HR21/22/23 runs on the same Broadcom chipset as the TiVO HD, so it might have been a relatively straightforward port.

If I understand it correctly, the Comcast project involved writing a completely new layer of TiVo software to sit on top of the existing Comcast app.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If TiVo were smart, they would have developed their code so that all they needed was an abstraction layer to be able to port it onto almost any chipset.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> What I don't get is why anyone is surprised, given how long the Comcast-Tivo box took.





Steve said:


> I'm surprised because the HR21/22/23 runs on the same Broadcom chipset as the TiVO HD, so it might have been a relatively straightforward port.
> 
> If I understand it correctly, the Comcast project involved writing a completely new layer of TiVo software to sit on top of the existing Comcast app.


While I may not fully agree with Steve's assessment regarding the porting of the software to the HR21/22/23, I'm in total agreement with his Comcast statement.

As for Sixto's comment, unless the HR24 starts to differentiate itself from the rest of the HR2x line, I imagine the HR24 will have very little impact upon the success (or lack of) of the new DirecTiVo.

That being said, I've always believed ANY new MPEG4 DirecTiVo would be a "niche" product for those who require more than what the HR2x currently offers. The longer time goes by without a new TiVo, any potential impact it may have had gets smaller... as those who require more may get used to doing without... particularly with the promise of extra fees associated with the new TiVo.

~Alan


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> If TiVo were smart, they would have developed their code so that all they needed was an abstraction layer to be able to port it onto almost any chipset.


Agree.

TiVo dropped the ball early on, IMHO. If, back in the early 2000's, co-founders Barton and Ramsay focused on software instead of hardware and provided an app that every cable or sat provider could use for free on their DVR hardware platform of choice, in return for say $1/month/subscriber household to cover support costs, they'd not only be the dominant DVR provider in the market today, but they'd be pretty darned profitable as well, wouldn't you think?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> While I may not fully agree with Steve's assessment regarding the porting of the software to the HR21/22/23 [...]


You can look it up.  TiVo Series 3 is based on the same chipset as the HR20. TiVo HD is based on the same chipset as the HR21-23's.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Steve said:


> Agree.
> 
> TiVo dropped the ball early on, IMHO. If, back in the early 2000's, co-founders Barton and Ramsay focused on software instead of hardware and provided an app that every cable or sat provider could use for free on their DVR hardware platform of choice, in return for say $1/month/subscriber household to cover support costs, they'd not only be the dominant DVR provider in the market today, but they'd be pretty darned profitable as well, wouldn't you think?


Might be the only real game in town had they done this, regardless the platform.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Skyboss said:


> Might be the only real game in town had they done this, regardless the platform.


Yup. There would have been much less financial incentive for any MSO to invest millions in essentially re-inventing the wheel.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Steve said:


> You can look it up.  TiVo Series 3 is based on the same chipset as the HR20. TiVo HD is based on the same chipset as the HR21-23's.


Not what I was disagreeing with. 

It's been a rumor for some time that TiVo and "interactive features" don't mesh well. I don't know if there's any truth to it or not, BUT I imagine TiVo would have quite a bit of work to do in order to support the interactive features that DirecTV offers.

In other words, if they were doing a simple HR10-250 port, it would be fine, but with them meshing stand-alone TiVo features along with DirecTV features, it wouldn't be a simple "port job".

~Alan


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

I'll admit my interest has waned considerably and I probably won't go for this box when (if?) it ever comes along but for a different reason. Namely, if this Allvid gateway actually becomes a reality on the timetable the FCC has put out, it would make specialized boxes such as this a much poorer investment. Granted, that's a pretty big if, but given the potential for it there just really isn't an incentive to move to a box with unproven firmware that's locked to a specific provider if three years down the road I'll be able to buy or build a box that can do *exactly* what I want and be compatible with any kind of service I want to use.

I can't wait to abandon DirecTV's DVRs but if Allvid actually does come to fruition then it would seem to me that I could keep DirecTV without needing to wait for TiVo or anyone else to make a box that serves my needs.

Tony


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## Deezul (Oct 10, 2006)

My big reason for holding onto one HR10 was the Closed Captioning staying on for FF1. I mainly watch shows on the Big 4 Networks. But sometime last year, FF1 stopped working on my ABC and CBS feeds. When it works on my NBC feed, it mutes the sound then sometimes does FF1 and other times just stays at the normal speed. Only Fox is successful on FF1, and right now I'm not watching a lot of Fox shows. 

As soon as I can find the HR24 at a Best Buy (Reward zone points!) I'll call up D* and see what kind of upgrade deal they will give me. Just give me a $200 credit or something, and I'm signing up. I have HR20s, so I still have boxes with OTA reception.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Deezul said:


> As soon as I can find the HR24 at a Best Buy (Reward zone points!) I'll call up D* and see what kind of upgrade deal they will give me. Just give me a $200 credit or something, and I'm signing up. I have HR20s, so I still have boxes with OTA reception.


DirecTV no longer does this! 

~Alan


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## Deezul (Oct 10, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> DirecTV no longer does this!
> 
> ~Alan


Hmm. I got one replaced, and I'm near my two year commitment end. I'll have to call and see if they will give me a deal to stay. If I can get them to give me $10 a month off for a year, I'd probably still do it. The HD size is the big incentive on the HR24, especially since my wife and I have gone recording crazy.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

My bet is a box like the premiere, but with the pay portion of the internet content replaced with DoD.

Given DirecTV's push for MRV, it will probably support MRV and have built-in DECA. I don't think it will be an HR2x series box, I think it will be distinctly TiVo hardware and run highly proprietary software compared to the HR2x boxes.

Granted, I'd never want one, TiVo can go screw themselves after they maliciously went after Echostar with that absurd patent infringement BS.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kiljoy said:


> if Allvid actually does come to fruition then it would seem to me that I could keep DirecTV without needing to wait for TiVo or anyone else to make a box that serves my needs.


Well, you'll need to wait for *someone* to make a box that serves your needs. :lol:


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

I suppose there's some truth in that but I can build a HTPC coupled with a server for very little. I like building PCs and I've done the HTPC route before. Given what TiVo is trying to do (and failing) in the Premiere, it's really a no-brainer.

That said, DirecTV has really started to impress me with the direction they're moving with the whole home DVR concept and if they can make it reliable and more enjoyable to use, maybe I'll end up with more DirecTV equipment. The fact that there will be a multitude of options from DIY solutions to pre-built ones would make me extremely happy as I really like DirecTVs programming and infrastructure, I just don't like the HR-2x experience. This would be the best of all worlds.

Tony


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Bigg said:


> My bet is a box like the premiere, but with the pay portion of the internet content replaced with DoD.
> 
> Given DirecTV's push for MRV, it will probably support MRV and have built-in DECA. I don't think it will be an HR2x series box, I think it will be distinctly TiVo hardware and run highly proprietary software compared to the HR2x boxes.


Well, you're right about MRV and DECA most likely being included. But you're totally wrong on your other bets since they've already been shot down.

1) Tivo CEO has already stated a couple times that the new DirecTivo HD will *not* use the Premier UI. It will be the same old classic Tivo UI that has been with us for a decade.
2) It will be built on DirecTV hardware. The only thing we don't know is if it will be based on the HR21/22/23 or the HR24.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

MRV, I tend to think so. Built-in DECA.... I think not.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> 1) Tivo CEO has already stated a couple times that the new DirecTivo HD will *not* use the Premier UI. It will be the same old classic Tivo UI that has been with us for a decade.


While it's certainly been made clear that the new DirecTiVo will NOT be the Premiere UI, I'm not convinced it will be the same UI as before. I half expect to see a DirecTV variation of the ComcasTiVo. 

No reasons to believe so. Just my personal belief.

~Alan


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mr. Gordon, I think you're probably right in that assessment.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, you're right about MRV and DECA most likely being included. But you're totally wrong on your other bets since they've already been shot down.
> 
> 1) Tivo CEO has already stated a couple times that the new DirecTivo HD will *not* use the Premier UI. It will be the same old classic Tivo UI that has been with us for a decade.
> 2) It will be built on DirecTV hardware. The only thing we don't know is if it will be based on the HR21/22/23 or the HR24.


That's right, I forgot about that. I still can't see it on D* hardware though. TiVo has it's own brand, with it's own boxes. If it's really just another version of ComcrapTiVo then it will be a major FAIL.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mr. Bigg... I think you may be on to something with your last statement


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I imagine it will be the same UI as the original DirecTivos, with a bit of modification for MRV and such. If it ever shows up at all.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Bigg said:


> That's right, I forgot about that. I still can't see it on D* hardware though. TiVo has it's own brand, with it's own boxes. If it's really just another version of ComcrapTiVo then it will be a major FAIL.


I think that's where we're leading. Running right to an Epic Fail.

My theory is that since it's going to be on a current DirecTV platform it's only going to be a HR2x with a TiVo interface. That is to say, it will look like TiVo but really be just another HR2x with maybe a minor difference or two.

This makes sense to me because I can't see a scenario where DirecTV will allow a DirecTiVo to out shine the HR2x (especially the HR24). I can't see the DirecTiVo having much more functionality than a current HR2x. IMHO, it's just not going to happen.

In the beginning I was psyched about getting a DirecTiVo but I no longer think it's going to a viable DVR. If it winds up on an HR22 or HR23, which I think it will, it will still not be as good as the HR24.

It's only my personal theory. Since I have nothing to back it up but my personal observation, take from it what you will.

Now if the delays are to facilitate use on the HR24s then, for some, we might have something. Otherwise it almost seems as if there's no good reason to even have a DirecTiVo. Hmmm.....maybe it will just fade into vapor. I doubt it but it's possible. :grin:

Mike


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I think that's where we're leading. Running right to an Epic Fail.
> 
> My theory is that since it's going to be on a current DirecTV platform it's only going to be a HR2x with a TiVo interface. That is to say, it will look like TiVo but really be just another HR2x with maybe a minor difference or two.
> 
> ...


Even if it is released, by the time it is, it may just fade away from lack of interest.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, if the DirecTiVo is a premium priced product, I could see them allowing it to be a little better than the HR2xs just because htere would be that price differnential.

I agree though, while I once was really interested in a new DirecTiVo, I think this is destined to be a letdown, especially consideriong all the hype for the Premiere. If they really beleive it, they have a warped expectation of what makes people go "wow!"

TiVo really missed the best chance to pick up lots of DirecTV customers a couple of years ago. Even 1 year ago it would have been much easier and each software revison DirecTV comes closer and closer to removing any reason to switch for all but the most die hard TiVo fans. Especially if the TiVo really does run on all the HR series boxes (personally, I am still not convinced of that) as it will probably be pig slow.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> While it's certainly been made clear that the new DirecTiVo will NOT be the Premiere UI, I'm not convinced it will be the same UI as before. I half expect to see a DirecTV variation of the ComcasTiVo.
> 
> No reasons to believe so. Just my personal belief.
> 
> ~Alan


It makes sense. Depends on whether Tivo wipes out the install of the DirecTV DVR or coexists or layers on top.

The graphics rendering is probably done at a base library function and could be used by the Tivo programmers, so you would get the DVR style menu look with Tivo values. But that brings into question how much of the logical guts would be Tivo's and how much DirecTV's.

And if they do that will there be compatibility issues.

All of this is probably what made the Comcast Tivo such a clusterf***.

We will just have to wait and see (if we ever do get to see).


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> It makes sense. Depends on whether Tivo wipes out the install of the DirecTV DVR or coexists or layers on top.
> 
> The graphics rendering is probably done at a base library function and could be used by the Tivo programmers, so you would get the DVR style menu look with Tivo values. But that brings into question how much of the logical guts would be Tivo's and how much DirecTV's.
> 
> ...


That's another question. Is it also going to wipe the hard drives of anything already recorded on them?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

kevinturcotte said:


> Even if it is released, by the time it is, it may just fade away from lack of interest.


I think that's a more likely scenario then it becoming vaproware.

Mike


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Bigg said:


> If it's really just another version of ComcrapTiVo then it will be a major FAIL.





Stuart Sweet said:


> Mr. Bigg... I think you may be on to something with your last statement


I disagree...

I have to wonder about the differences in our definition of "major fail"?

~Alan


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I disagree...
> 
> I have to wonder about the differences in our definition of "major fail"?
> 
> ~Alan


You don't think Comcast Tivo was a major fail?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> My theory is that since it's going to be on a current DirecTV platform it's only going to be a HR2x with a TiVo interface. That is to say, it will look like TiVo but really be just another HR2x with maybe a minor difference or two.


I'm assuming the "minor" differences you are referring to are:

Unlimited Series Links/Season Passes.
Unlimited Autorecord/Wishlists
Unlimited Wishlists
Dual Live Buffers
Recently Deleted Folders
Ability to omit channels (PPV, etc.) from search
TiVo KidZone



MicroBeta said:


> This makes sense to me because I can't see a scenario where DirecTV will allow a DirecTiVo to out shine the HR2x (especially the HR24). I can't see the DirecTiVo having much more functionality than a current HR2x. IMHO, it's just not going to happen.


I guess it all depends on how one uses an HR2x/TiVo. Sometimes I feel like my HR10-250 has more functionality than a HR2x. Over time, that feeling has diminished, and I believe it will continue to diminish, but depending on when the DirecTiVo comes out (if it ever does), I'm not sure that feeling will have gone away yet.



MicroBeta said:


> In the beginning I was psyched about getting a DirecTiVo but I no longer think it's going to a viable DVR. If it winds up on an HR22 or HR23, which I think it will, it will still not be as good as the HR24.


Between TonyD's comments regarding his TiVoHD, and the First Look'er folks on the HR24 First Look thread, my interest is definitely diminished with the possibility that the new DirecTiVo could be considerably slower than my TiVo Series 3 or HR10-250... especially with the speed talked about in the First Look thread, but unless the HR24 starts to differentiate itself from earlier units, I'm not sure whether I'd consider either better, but rather two units, each with their own respective advantages.



MicroBeta said:


> Otherwise it almost seems as if there's no good reason to even have a DirecTiVo.


I can think of a few...  

~Alan


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> It makes sense. Depends on whether Tivo wipes out the install of the DirecTV DVR or coexists or layers on top.


Rogers has already said it will be TiVo software from top to bottom, not a layering like was done with Comcast. They know they cannot afford to repeat that mistake.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> You don't think Comcast Tivo was a major fail?


I'll take this.
It works and is out there in one small market. It was very late and had a lot of teething pains. It needs a great deal of infrastructure to be just right to work and that has kept the expansion to other markets very very slow.

From TiVo's perspective I would call it a fail. From Comcast's perspective it is probably a roaring success.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> I disagree...
> 
> I have to wonder about the differences in our definition of "major fail"?





tonyd79 said:


> You don't think Comcast Tivo was a major fail?


Depends on how you mean it.

The ComcasTiVo is not vaporware. There are those who have it.

When it (finally) becomes available nationwide, I would imagine it will become a "niche" product. Neither a "rousing success" or a "major fail".

Because of this "niche" product, TiVo gets revenue and Comcast doesn't get sued.

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> That's another question. Is it also going to wipe the hard drives of anything already recorded on them?


There will be Tivos, and there will be HR2xs. It will not be possible to convert an HR2x into a Tivo, or vice versa. So this is not an issue.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Lee L said:


> ... *each software revison DirecTV comes closer and closer* to removing any reason to switch for all but the most die hard TiVo fans. Especially if the TiVo really does run on all the HR series boxes (personally, I am still not convinced of that) as it will probably be pig slow.





tonyd79 said:


> ... Depends on whether Tivo wipes out the install of the DirecTV DVR, or coexists, or layers on top...


I think it has already been stated, and widely accepted, that the new TiVo will run only on a TiVo-branded box (what kind, no one seems to know) that won't be allowed to download HR2x firmware.

As for DirecTV coming closer and closer to satisfying outstanding grievances with each software revison - may I respectfully ask, Lee, what you're smoking? 

I'd like to know if somewhere there's a list of bugs that have been fixed over the last year. I'm not kidding, I really would, because DirecTV doesn't seem to have made such a list available.

I think that, in replacing Search with Smart Search, DirecTV has (mostly) done away with the bug that spontaneously refreshes search-result lists. (The bug still crops up in Upcoming Episode lists.) So that's _one_ bug that has been _almost_ wiped out. Meanwhile, other bugs have been added.

Sorry to go a little off track, but to me fixing the existing bugs is the (only) way to decrease interest in a new TiVo.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

And you know, Syzygy, your opinion is completely valid. Other people have other opinions that differ from yours and they are valid too. 

As far as a list of fixed bugs, there isn't one outside of the storied halls of El Segundo, California. 

We do both agree that you would be happy working within the TiVo UI, and that its feature set more closely approximates your needs. For myself, I'm quite satisfied with what I get from my HR2x receivers at this point.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm assuming the "minor" differences you are referring to are:
> 
> Unlimited Series Links/Season Passes.
> Unlimited Autorecord/Wishlists
> ...


If that's what you're assuming then ok. But, I see no reason to think anything more than what's currently in the HR2x will be in the new DirecTiVo.

I'm assuming it will need to be compatible with DirecTV's On Demand, TV Apps, MRV, etc. Will incorporating those have an impact on any of your list? 

I seem to remember that the 50 SL limit had something to do with how the system current does some of what it does (look back at the old DLB and the "something better" threads). Could that limiting factor also impact what TiVo is doing? I don't have a clue, but neither am I assuming what features it will and will not have...I'm just sayin' :grin:



> I guess it all depends on how one uses an HR2x/TiVo. Sometimes I feel like my HR10-250 has more functionality than a HR2x. Over time, that feeling has diminished, and I believe it will continue to diminish, but depending on when the DirecTiVo comes out (if it ever does), I'm not sure that feeling will have gone away yet.
> 
> Between TonyD's comments regarding his TiVoHD, and the First Look'er folks on the HR24 First Look thread, my interest is definitely diminished with the possibility that the new DirecTiVo could be considerably slower than my TiVo Series 3 or HR10-250... especially with the speed talked about in the First Look thread, but unless the HR24 starts to differentiate itself from earlier units, I'm not sure whether I'd consider either better, but rather two units, each with their own respective advantages.
> 
> ...


While the HR24 is much faster than the previous HR2x's, I don't see it differentiating itself in any other way (DECA not with standing). One thing DirecTV has done is maintain a consistent look and functionality across all the receivers. That's not going to change. Ultimately, any new firmware based features will be added to the whole HR2x line and not one model, so don't look for the HR24 to pull away from the other HR2x's. 

Those things you've mentioned are obviously important to you as they are to other posters. IMHO, and speaking only for myself, not so much (ok the recently deleted folder would be very cool). However, how many general subs out there will agree that these features are that important...especially those that have never actually used a TiVo before and will be facing an additional cost to have access to those features?

I find myself wondering if there are enough people out there who are willing to pay more each month just to have some extra features in a DirecTiVo. I'm beginning to think that in the end the extra cost will eventually kill it. It will be an Albatross around the neck of the DirecTiVo, and unless there are some really cool, not found in the DVR+, mass appeal, features that will offset that fact that it costs more each month (with the mass appeal being a really important one)...well, then I'm beginning to think it's doomed from the get go.

Mike


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## futureformercsr (Apr 22, 2010)

Does it seem at all likely that the home media center will be driven from a Tivo platform due to proprietary hardware, software, patents, etc. Just seems like they were both announced a while ago and neither have appeared yet.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Lee L said:


> Well, if the DirecTiVo is a premium priced product, I could see them allowing it to be a little better than the HR2xs just because htere would be that price differnential.


Not to nitpick, but this statement bothers me. Tivo seems perfectly capable of limiting itself without outside interference from DirecTV. The only thing that I believe DirecTV would disallow would concern the distribution of content in violation of DirecTV's agreements with other parties.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> If that's what you're assuming then ok. But, I see no reason to think anything more than what's currently in the HR2x will be in the new DirecTiVo.


Since the press release stated that the new TiVo will have TiVo KidZone and Swivel Search, I expect it to have those... although it's possible TiVo may have swapped Swivel Search for TiVo Search now that they appear to have given up on Swivel Search. Other than that, I expect the same features previously available on the HR10-250. I may speculate beyond that, but that's all.



MicroBeta said:


> I'm assuming it will need to be compatible with DirecTV's On Demand, TV Apps, MRV, etc. Will incorporating those have an impact on any of your list?


I would imagine it will have to be compatible with those as well.

I don't really understand your question, but I don't use DoD, and though I use TV Apps, I'd gladly give it up for some of the features I previously mentioned. MRV however is a feature I like. Given the fees associated with it, I can't say I'll always subscribe to it, but if the $3 fee rings true, I'll hang on to it for a while. If it goes up, I'll probably cancel.



MicroBeta said:


> I seem to remember that the 50 SL limit had something to do with how the system current does some of what it does (look back at the old DLB and the "something better" threads). Could that limiting factor also impact what TiVo is doing? I don't have a clue, but neither am I assuming what features it will and will not have...I'm just sayin' :grin:


I always assumed (yeah, I know what that does) that it had more to do with the DirecTV software than anything else. It's been said that the TiVo Series 3 internals are (basically) the same as the HR20, and the TiVoHD as the HR21/22/23, and it doesn't have the limit, not to mention that the old DirecTiVo's didn't have this limitation.



MicroBeta said:


> While the HR24 is much faster than the previous HR2x's, I don't see it differentiating itself in any other way (DECA not with standing). One thing DirecTV has done is maintain a consistent look and functionality across all the receivers. That's not going to change. Ultimately, any new firmware based features will be added to the whole HR2x line and not one model, so don't look for the HR24 to pull away from the other HR2x's.


If true, then I stand by my previous comments.



MicroBeta said:


> Those things you've mentioned are obviously important to you as they are to other posters. IMHO, and speaking only for myself, not so much. However, how many general subs out there will agree that these features are that important...especially those that have never actually used a TiVo before and will be facing an additional cost to have access to those features?


A very small percentage, IMHO.



MicroBeta said:


> I find myself wondering if there are enough people out there who are willing to pay more each month just to have some extra features in a DirecTiVo. I'm beginning to think that in the end the extra cost will eventually kill it. It will be an Albatross around the neck of the DirecTiVo, and unless there are some really cool, not found in the DVR+, mass appeal, features that will offset that fact that it costs more each month (with the mass appeal being a really important one)...well, then I'm beginning to think it's doomed from the get go.


My belief is not the extra cost, but rather the amount of time it has taken for TiVo to bring it to market.

The longer people who prefer TiVo have the HR2x, or have to wait until the TiVo comes out, the more people who will find the currently available (and cheaper) HR2x to be "good enough".

This belief may also apply to me as well, as evidenced by a recent post in this thread:



Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah, I think "timing" is a big issue.
> 
> I've made no secret of my preference for TiVo's GUI and feature-set compared to the HR2x's.... which is why I was intending to replace my two DirecTiVos with newer DirecTiVo's.
> 
> However, with my locals coming online in a few months, I'm not sure I will be waiting. It will be dependent upon whether or not the HR24 is available by then, and whether or not any more details about the new TiVo have been announced.


~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

futureformercsr said:


> Does it seem at all likely that the home media center will be driven from a Tivo platform


Absolutely not.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> And you know, Syzygy, your opinion is completely valid. Other people have other opinions that differ from yours and they are valid too.
> 
> As far as a list of fixed bugs, there isn't one outside of the storied halls of El Segundo, California.
> 
> We do both agree that you would be happy *working within the TiVo UI*, and that its feature set more closely approximates your needs. For myself, I'm quite satisfied with what I get from my HR2x receivers at this point.


I want to make one thing perfectly clear (that's a Tricky Dick reference, for you youngsters ): It's not so much the TiVo UI itself that I hanker for, it's the whole TiVo experience. The HR2x could go a long way toward duplicating that experience by fixing their many bugs and design deficiencies - if D* cared.

I like a lot of things about the HR2x; that UI has some nice little features I haven't seen elsewhere. But the bugs are sometimes infuriating.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I want to make one thing perfectly clear (that's a Tricky Dick reference, for you youngsters ): It's not so much the TiVo UI itself that I hanker for, it's the whole TiVo experience. The HR2x could go a long way toward duplicating that experience by fixing their many bugs and design deficiencies - if D* cared.
> 
> I like a lot of things about the HR2x; that UI has some nice little features I haven't seen elsewhere. But the bugs are sometimes infuriating.


I prefer the HR2x UI. I just wish they'd give us back our Wishlist (And not the auto-record kind). Suggestions were all right, and while I used them, weren't a big deal for me, but I know some liked them. I do miss my clock in the lower right hand corner.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

gregjones said:


> Not to nitpick, but this statement bothers me. Tivo seems perfectly capable of limiting itself without outside interference from DirecTV. The only thing that I believe DirecTV would disallow would concern the distribution of content in violation of DirecTV's agreements with other parties.


Were on pretty much the same page. I was actually responding to another post that said DirecTV would not let TiVos box or SW implentation outshine their setup, but I beleive there is room for just such an arrangement, assuming the TiVo software is an extra cost.

And Syzygy, I'm definitely not trying to say I would not appreciate a new DirecTiVo, but simply that to many users, the HR2x is pretty much fine for them now. 2 years ago, it was quite a bit rougher and yes, they still have some things that are worse, no doubt. But with the addition of Doubleplay and MRV and some of the stability fixes (again, not saying they don't have a ways to go to be perfect or even as good as TiVo, especially in guide data parsing/recording) they are much closer than they were.

Power users will pick up on the differences, but I imagine that the average family will be just fine without TiVO, especially if it is 9 bucks a month.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> I want to make one thing perfectly clear (that's a Tricky Dick reference, for you youngsters ): It's not so much the TiVo UI itself that I hanker for, it's the whole TiVo experience. The HR2x could go a long way toward duplicating that experience by fixing their many bugs and design deficiencies - if D* cared.
> 
> I like a lot of things about the HR2x; that UI has some nice little features I haven't seen elsewhere. But the bugs are sometimes infuriating.


Interestingly enough, you're almost the exact opposite of me! 

I really don't experience many bugs with the HR2x, and while there are one or two things I consider a design deficiency of the HR2x, the majority of my issues are simply the lack of features which I care about.

While I want TiVo to continue to be a player in the DVR world, I'd strongly prefer for DirecTV to simply make me lose interest in any DirecTiVo offering.



Lee L said:


> Power users will pick up on the differences, but I imagine that the average family will be just fine without TiVO, especially if it is 9 bucks a month.


I'm still hoping for ComcasTiVo pricing myself...

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The HR2x could go a long way toward duplicating that experience by fixing their many bugs and design deficiencies - if D* cared.


The problem is that most of the "bugs" and "design deficiencies" on your list are just matters of preference. You don't like the way DirecTV did something. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means you don't like it. Unfortunately for you, DirecTV doesn't consider Syzygy to be the ultimate knower of all things good for UI design.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Lee L said:


> Power users will pick up on the differences, but I imagine that the average family will be just fine without TiVO, especially if it is 9 bucks a month.


And that's the kicker. The average family already *thinks* they have a Tivo. Tivo is a DVR afterall. Tivo is the universal word for DVR.

Of the dozens of people I know with DVRs not a single one of them have a Tivo (a few used to with DirecTV back in the day). Yet most think they have Tivo and say it all the time.

So when this new DirecTivo comes out (if it comes out), 99.9% of the DirecTV customer base with a DVR will think "ummm, I already have a Tivo and this one is more expensive? why would I want that?" Just like cable today, they have the crappy cable DVR and think they have Tivo so they don't see why they should be paying $200-$300 for a "real" Tivo and $13 a month when they already have one for "free" from the cable company. And this attitude is why Tivo doesn't even have 10% DVR market share anymore, and gets smaller every month.

Oh, of my friends that are the hard core sports guys that had DirecTivo back in the day and missed them, once Double Play was added to the HR2x last year all their complains disappeared. That was the "killer feature" for my friends that loved the Tivo's. Now they could care less about Tivo.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> MRV however is a feature I like. Given the fees associated with it, I can't say I'll always subscribe to it, but if the $3 fee rings true, I'll hang on to it for a while. If it goes up, I'll probably cancel.


If there is not an MRV function in this TiVO unit, thats another deal breaker.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm still hoping for ComcasTiVo pricing myself...


Has TiVo and Comcast officially rolled out the fabled ComcasTiVo yet? Last I heard (about six months ago), they were still only available in the same two New England markets where they had begun testing in October of 2007.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> The problem is that most of the "bugs" and "design deficiencies" on your list are just matters of preference.


The HR2x wish list is long with or without items that DIRECTV is consciously avoiding implementing.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> The HR2x wish list is long with or without items that DIRECTV is consciously avoiding implementing.


What does that have to do with anything? The length of a wish list doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of a product.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Jeremy, read Harsh's sig. "...the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Nitpicking here:



Alan Gordon said:


> Dual Live Buffers


The HR2x's have Dual Live Buffers. Longer ones than the Tivos and better implemented, IMO (independent tuners).


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Nitpicking here:
> 
> The HR2x's have Dual Live Buffers. Longer ones than the Tivos and better implemented, IMO (independent tuners).


Are you implying the TiVo's don't have independent tuners used for Dual Live Buffer? One thing about a TiVo... It may be shorter, but DLB is "always on".


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

Many of you have learned to love your D* DVRs and probably won't switch back to TiVo. But what about the people who left after D* switched to MPEG4. The only way you could stay with D* was to get a very buggy DVR and sign up for a two year commitment. Perhaps many of those would come back if a HD TiVo were available.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Skyboss said:


> Are you implying the TiVo's don't have independent tuners used for Dual Live Buffer? One thing about a TiVo... It may be shorter, but DLB is "always on".


Yup. That's the difference, IMO. Advantage D* for buffer length. Advantage TiVo for "always on" background buffer.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

The always-on buffer really chews up the drive though. Not having it is a better option in most situations. I have no clue how my S2 SA from '04 hasn't killed it's drive yet.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Bigg said:


> The always-on buffer really chews up the drive though. Not having it is a better option in most situations. I have no clue how my S2 SA from '04 hasn't killed it's drive yet.


Not anymore than Directv's implementation. The hard drive is *ALWAYS* buffering, it's just a matter of how much is actually kept before it's purged (Tivo-30 mins, Directv-90 mins).


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## ftdmlk (Sep 29, 2007)

Being the proud owner of an original TIVO back in the day before anyone knew what TIVO was and well before D* came into the picture, I was one of very few who got to experience this technology. Then when D* came on board, I had to have one. Peanut remote actually controlling the sat. receiver and not an IR blaster or cable connecting the two units. WOW!! My old R10 has since bit the dust and I am now an owner of a HR23-700 which I have been, for the most part, happy with. Although the UI of TIVO and the Peanut remote is sorely missed, especially by my wife. We never ask our friends, family if they DVR'd Survivor last night, we ask them if they TIVO'd the show. It's funny how that name has stuck.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> The length of a wish list doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of a product.


Not so much the quality, but the suitability for a particular task. This addresses the "design deficiencies" issue. Something can be really good at what it does and still not meet important functionality and/or performance expectations.

A slotted spoon works well for it what it was designed to do, but it makes for a lousy spoon.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

<moderator warning>

Folks, let's not get back into the rut of trying to discuss the (perceived) deficiencies of the HR2x series in this thread. Thanks.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Nitpicking here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was nitpicking myself.

TiVo has Dual Live Buffers. The HR2x's have DoublePlay.

I have used Dual Live Buffers a thousand times over the years. I have used DoublePlay once, and don't intend to again.

DirecTV has the advantage of having a 90 minute buffer, TiVo has the advantage of having them always on (and not taking up any extra hard drive space).

For most people, DoublePlay is a qualified replacement for Dual Live Buffers, but it is still a different feature than DLB... hence why I added DLB as a list of features the new DirecTiVo will have that the HR2x's do not.

~Alan


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> I was nitpicking myself.
> 
> TiVo has Dual Live Buffers. The HR2x's have DoublePlay.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how it is a different feature then Tivo's DLB. The only difference is on DirecTV you press one extra button to "activate" it. Big deal. After that it's the same and is actually better in a few ways. So why for you is it different and you never use it while you used DLB on Tivo all the time. They are the same thing basically.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't understand how it is a different feature then Tivo's DLB. The only difference is on DirecTV you press one extra button to "activate" it. Big deal. After that it's the same and is actually better in a few ways. So why for you is it different and you never use it while you used DLB on Tivo all the time. They are the same thing basically.


On TiVo, Dual Live Buffer is always on. It also does not eat into any of your hard drive space. It's simply there.

On the HR2x, DoublePlay is not always on. It needs to be activated, once activated, it takes up hard drive space and it can't be turned off until it "times out", and if your hard drive space is low, you either can't use DoublePlay, or if you use DoublePlay while your hard drive is low, recordings can be cancelled, or not fully record due to low disk space because of DoublePlay.

If it wasn't a Wednesday, I could probably think of other differences as well, but it really doesn't matter. Regardless of whether or not you think they are the same feature, there are differences in the way you use them. For most people, DoublePlay fulfills the same exact function, it just does it in another way, and whether or not I feel DoublePlay and DLB are two different features is besides the point, as you can simply substitute my use of "Dual Live Buffer" in the list as an always on, 24/7 buffer.

One other thing to add. I like TiVo Suggestions. However, I didn't (and still don't) have an issue with leaving them behind when I switched from the HR10-250. While I have used Dual Live Buffers on TiVo thousands of times, DLB was another feature that I wasn't upset about leaving behind when I switched to the HR20, so I'm really not upset by the lack of Dual Live Buffers, but I do believe there is a difference between DLB and DoublePlay.

~Alan


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> On TiVo, Dual Live Buffer is always on. It also does not eat into any of your hard drive space. It's simply there.
> 
> On the HR2x, DoublePlay is not always on. It needs to be activated, once activated, it takes up hard drive space and it can't be turned off until it "times out", and if your hard drive space is low, you either can't use DoublePlay, or if you use DoublePlay while your hard drive is low, recordings can be cancelled, or not fully record due to low disk space because of DoublePlay.
> 
> ...


Where does Tivo put it's live buffers? It's surely not keeping 2 30 minute buffers in onboard RAM. Give you a hint, it's the same place on the HR2x.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Jeremy, read Harsh's sig. "...the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."


So anyone who disagrees with your opinions is a moron who doesn't think. Got it.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RobertE said:


> Where does Tivo put it's live buffers? It's surely not keeping 2 30 minute buffers in onboard RAM. Give you a hint, it's the same place on the HR2x.


Obviously! 

The point is, the only two times*** I have used DoublePlay, it's either deleted something I had on my hard drive, or told me I couldn't use DoublePlay because I didn't have enough hard drive space, or told me it couldn't record something because DoublePlay was active on my account. I've never had these issues with DLB.

That being said, the lack of DLB is not really an issue to me. I may complain about many features previously available on my HR10-250 that the HR2x doesn't have, but I don't remember ever complaining about the lack of DLB (even before DoublePlay made it's appearance), and I doubt I ever did. I was simply stating that there are features that the new DirecTiVo will probably have that the HR2x does not currently have.

*** Yeah, I said I only used DoublePlay once, but I forgot about another time. Technically, it's been active on my HR2x more than that, but several times was by accident. 

~Alan


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> Obviously!
> 
> The point is, the only two times*** I have used DoublePlay, it's either deleted something I had on my hard drive, or told me I couldn't use DoublePlay because I didn't have enough hard drive space, or told me it couldn't record something because DoublePlay was active on my account. I've never had these issues with DLB.
> 
> ...


How do you accidentally start DP?

It's not a single button press you know.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> On TiVo, Dual Live Buffer is always on. It also does not eat into any of your hard drive space. It's simply there.


So what? When I don't need it, I don't care.



Alan Gordon said:


> On the HR2x, DoublePlay is not always on. It needs to be activated, once activated, it takes up hard drive space


That is a new one on me. Never heard that reported before.



Alan Gordon said:


> and it can't be turned off until it "times out", and if your hard drive space is low, you either can't use DoublePlay, or if you use DoublePlay while your hard drive is low, recordings can be cancelled, or not fully record due to low disk space because of DoublePlay.


I don't buy this at all. Because when the unit wants to record something, you are asked to turn double play off. The default is to turn it off so if you do not answer, it will timeout and turn double play off.



Alan Gordon said:


> If it wasn't a Wednesday, I could probably think of other differences as well, but it really doesn't matter. Regardless of whether or not you think they are the same feature, there are differences in the way you use them. For most people, DoublePlay fulfills the same exact function, it just does it in another way, and whether or not I feel DoublePlay and DLB are two different features is besides the point, as you can simply substitute my use of "Dual Live Buffer" in the list as an always on, 24/7 buffer.


No, I said DirecTV's was better. I never said they were the same exact feature. But you are nitpicking to say they are not basically the same. A car door handle may be a push button or a pull up or a pull out. They all open the car door and are the same function. differently implemented.

Why the DirecTV one is better? Two reasons....larger buffers and that the tuners are independent. With Tivo, if you flip one buffer through the other, you switch buffers without being told and can easily lose both buffers. Can't do that with DirecTV's.

And, since you say you hardly ever used the DirecTV one, you are hardly a judge of how well it works. I use it a lot and found it to be very good and dependable.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

ATARI said:


> How do you accidentally start DP? It's not a single button press you know.


It's two successive presses of the same button, right? If you press Down once and fail to notice the blue-and-white message box, you might press it again by accident. I've done it by accident at least three times that I can remember since DP was introduced.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Alan Gordon said:
> 
> 
> > On TiVo, Dual Live Buffer is always on. It also does not eat into any of your hard drive space. It's simply there.
> ...


As it should be!

There have been some examples in the past with Dual Live Buffers, in which I have turned on the TiVo and found something on the second tuner that I end up wanting to record, or meant to record, but in general, you are correct, when it's not in use, someone shouldn't care.



tonyd79 said:


> Alan Gordon said:
> 
> 
> > On the HR2x, DoublePlay is not always on. It needs to be activated, once activated, it takes up hard drive space
> ...


When DoublePlay is turned on, the second tuner's buffer uses the user's portion of the hard drive, not DirecTV's side. If you do not have a certain amount of space on the hard drive free, it either deletes your recordings if you have ones not marked KUID, or tells you that DoublePlay cannot be activated.



tonyd79 said:


> Alan Gordon said:
> 
> 
> > and it can't be turned off until it "times out", and if your hard drive space is low, you either can't use DoublePlay, or if you use DoublePlay while your hard drive is low, recordings can be cancelled, or not fully record due to low disk space because of DoublePlay.
> ...


I don't know what to say. Maybe it was because it was recording something on the same channel as what's in the buffer. That's the only thing I can think of to explain it.

You can buy it if you want, or you can leave it at the store, but I can only tell it like it happened. 



tonyd79 said:


> Alan Gordon said:
> 
> 
> > If it wasn't a Wednesday, I could probably think of other differences as well, but it really doesn't matter. Regardless of whether or not you think they are the same feature, there are differences in the way you use them. For most people, DoublePlay fulfills the same exact function, it just does it in another way, and whether or not I feel DoublePlay and DLB are two different features is besides the point, as you can simply substitute my use of "Dual Live Buffer" in the list as an always on, 24/7 buffer.
> ...


You quoted my reply to bonscott87.



tonyd79 said:


> But you are nitpicking to say they are not basically the same.


I said I was nitpicking!  They both essentially do the same thing.

TiVo's DLB implementation is more "friendly" to the ways in which I used DLB than DoublePlay. For most people, there's probably virtually no difference, with DirecTV probably coming out ahead due to the larger buffer.

I like DLB, but back when others were arguing about wanting DLB on the HR2x, and complaining that they didn't want the workaround (recording both programs, and switching back and forth), I didn't even care about the workaround. I'm not criticizing DoublePlay, I'm just simply saying I consider them to be different features.

To me, DLB is Dual Live Buffers 24/7. DoublePlay is a feature that provides a temporary optional second buffer. I consider them two sperate features. You don't, that's fine, as I have no problem with that. 



tonyd79 said:


> A car door handle may be a push button or a pull up or a pull out. They all open the car door and are the same function. differently implemented.


The differences are that one car door handle doesn't tell you it won't open if the car is full, nor does it kill off the passengers already in the car if the car is tight on space, nor does it no longer allow you to let people in if tight on space.   



tonyd79 said:


> Why the DirecTV one is better? Two reasons....larger buffers and that the tuners are independent. With Tivo, if you flip one buffer through the other, you switch buffers without being told and can easily lose both buffers. Can't do that with DirecTV's.


In total agreement on the larger buffers. That being said, I don't consider either to be better than the other, simply different... each with it's own pluses and minuses. I'm simply saying that *SOME* people out there, might possibly prefer the other implementation. That's all.

I never had the tuner issue with TiVo, so I can't comment on it. I have experienced the loss of a buffer on TiVo before by accidentally hitting the channel up or down button before, but I've had that issue with DoublePlay one of the times I used it (missed the last half hour of an episode of "Fringe") as well.



tonyd79 said:


> And, since you say you hardly ever used the DirecTV one, you are hardly a judge of how well it works. I use it a lot and found it to be very good and dependable.


Fair enough. 

Look folks, there are features on the HR2x I wish the TiVo had. There are multiple features on the HR2x that I think are great features, but that I don't use, and there are of course features on the TiVos I wish the HR2x had, but as I RARELY watch live programming, DLB isn't one of them. I'll argue (for) to the end about limits on Series Links, or adding the ability to save Searches, and adding Guest Star info, and other stuff which I may be forgetting right now, but unlike those things, DLB/DoublePlay isn't something I'm passionate about. 

*P.S.:* Thank you Syzygy for answering ATARI's question.

~Alan


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I never had the tuner issue with TiVo, so I can't comment on it. I have experienced the loss of a buffer on TiVo before by accidentally hitting the channel up or down button before, but I've had that issue with DoublePlay one of the times I used it (missed the last half hour of an episode of "Fringe") as well.


Just to explain the buffer dump I am talking about on the Tivo (and if you use the buffer very explicity and conciously you won't have it but it is totally repeatable) cause I don't think you understood what I was saying.

You are watching channel 216 on Tuner 1 and channel 217 on Tuner 2. While on Tuner 2, you push down channel so you are now watching channel 216. But without telling the Tivo to change tuners, it did. What actually happens rather than changing the channel is that the Tivo says "Hey, I have channel 216 on Tuner 1, so I will go there." Tuner 2 still has 217 on it. You push channel down once more to go to 215 but while it looks like the tuner you thought you were on (2) has gone to 215, actually Tuner 1 has gone to 215 and Tuner 2 still has 217. In this case, you made the decision to change the channel on Tuner 2 and you think you still have 216 in buffer. You do not.

On the DirecTV DVR, you only changed the channel on the tuner you are watching. The other remains unaffected.

To me, that is more important than the size of the buffer. You do not have unintended consequences.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Just to explain the buffer dump I am talking about on the Tivo (and if you use the buffer very explicity and conciously you won't have it but it is totally repeatable) cause I don't think you understood what I was saying.


I knew what you were referring to. 

I've just never had that issue before when watching something.

~Alan


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess it says something about the lack of interest in the new TiVo when all you boys want to talk about is the old one


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I guess it says something about the lack of interest in the new TiVo when all you boys want to talk about is the old one


I thought I was talking about the new one?!   

~Alan


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Tom Rogers just announced the Tivo will be an all-new box and out by the end of this year.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Yippee! ...... Oh, wait. "By the end of this year" means "don't even start looking for it until 2011 has gotten well under way."

Glad to hear it's an all-new box, though.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I wonder what "all-new" even means in this context.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Maruuk said:


> Tom Rogers just announced the Tivo will be an all-new box and out by the end of this year.


link? where did he announce?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Does a link really matter? Does the company have any credibility with timelines at this point?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Not aware of any analyst/investor call or presentation for today. Just curious where comment was, unless it was over lunch with the poster.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

nothing new from what I can see .. likely same information we already knew, but the hardware will be an HR2x of some sort with TiVo software. Some folks have suggested that it might be written on top of HR2x software somehow, this isn't true. It's all on TiVo to get it finished at this point.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> nothing new from what I can see .. likely same information we already knew, but the hardware will be an HR2x of some sort with TiVo software. Some folks have suggested that it might be written on top of HR2x software somehow, this isn't true. It's all on TiVo to get it finished at this point.


So basically we'd call Directv, say turn Tivo on, and the software would be downloaded to our HR2xs? Or maybe it would already be on there, and the receiver would just restart and "Switch" over to the Tivo software?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> So basically we'd call Directv, say turn Tivo on, and the software would be downloaded to our HR2xs? Or maybe it would already be on there, and the receiver would just restart and "Switch" over to the Tivo software?


Anything is possible, but I don't expect a "download" option to be available. I also suspect that there will be a different cover for the TiVo version .. one that looks more like a TiVo.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> So basically we'd call Directv, say turn Tivo on, and the software would be downloaded to our HR2xs? Or maybe it would already be on there, and the receiver would just restart and "Switch" over to the Tivo software?


*No.* If you want Tivo, you call DirecTV and order a Tivo. If you want an HR2x, you call DirecTV and order an HR2x. They are not interchangeable.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

So then there *WILL* be a new receiver released? Basically an HR2x running specialized Tivo software?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> nothing new from what I can see .. likely same information we already knew, but the hardware will be an HR2x of some sort with TiVo software...


"New box." _"New box!"_


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Most likely it will be a new receiver in the aspect that it will have a new model number, will come in a different cardboard box, and the external looks of the unit may look totally different (or it might just be a different paint scheme, or a sticker).

Pretty much all of the internal parts will be the same as an existing HR2x DVR.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

So, you're saying that if Tom Rogers announced the Tivo will be an *all-new *box, he means only that it's all-new compared to the 2002 DirecTiVo that was finally released in 2004?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

At this point I am willing to gamble that the agreement that Tivo and D* reached, was for Tivo to go along with stringing along D* subs in hopes they don't dump for cable, long enough for them to not miss the Tivo, or for it to become irrelevant. Hulu desktop rocks!


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> At this point I am willing to gamble that the agreement that Tivo and D* reached, was for Tivo to go along with stringing along D* subs in hopes they don't dump for cable, long enough for them to not miss the Tivo, or for it to become irrelevant. Hulu desktop rocks!


I can't say as it would surprise me at this point for Directv and Tivo to announce that it's just not happening, there will be no new DirecTivo.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> So, you're saying that if Tom Rogers announced the Tivo will be an *all-new *box, he means only that it's all-new compared to the 2002 DirecTiVo that was finally released in 2004?


Agree, if you mean the HR10-250.

Their latest agreement stipulates it will be TiVo software running on the HR broadband-enabled DVR platform. Unless DirecTV has yet another, so far unannounced stand-alone DVR coming out by the end of the year, the _newest _the box can be is an HR24.

We really need to know the question he was answering when he said that, tho. E.g., if "new" means a box TiVo engineering has never before programmed, any existing HR would fit that description, IMHO.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Well, of course it's an "all new" box. They aren't going to drag out the old HR10-250's and slap MPEG4 tuners on them.

Think of it this way....you have a production line making....let's say HR24s. 5 days a week it makes regular old HR24s with the DirecTV software loaded on it as it does today. Then on the 6th day they change the faceplate/bezel to have the little Tivo guy on it (a known requiremnet based on SEC filings) and then roll off a bunch of HR24s with Tivo software loaded on it.

There is your "all new" box.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> So, you're saying that if Tom Rogers announced the Tivo will be an *all-new *box, he means only that it's all-new compared to the 2002 DirecTiVo that was finally released in 2004?


I've looked .. Tom Rogers didn't publicly say that today .. or if he did, no one cares as it's not reported anywhere other than one poster here saying it was said.

The only thing recent is the Tom Rogers comments that we've already been talking about. So essentially it means the same thing it meant before. The "new box" is something new to TiVo .. meaning not the HR10-250.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The only thing recent is the Tom Rogers comments that we've already been talking about. So essentially it means the same thing it meant before. The "new box" is something new to TiVo .. meaning not the HR10-250.


Also not the Tivo Premiere, HD, or Series3.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> Anything is possible, but I don't expect a "download" option to be available. I also suspect that there will be a different cover for the TiVo version .. one that looks more like a TiVo.


Yeah, even if it based on the HR2X platform, I think it will be a totally different unit, maybe just sharing a motherboard and power supply. TiVo wants the distinctive branding like the S3 and Premier.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Not sure if this has been posted yet or how old it might be.

Directv Relationship with TiVo



> Will DIRECTV offer a new TiVo HD DVR?
> 
> We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:
> 
> ...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Question (Analyst):Lastly, if you could talk about where you are in your discussions with TiVo, about rolling out any new service?​Answer (CEO): Sure, we've had an ongoing series of meetings with Tom Rogers and the TiVo team earlier this year. We're in the process of working with them. We've provided them specs for our box, and I think we expect them to have a box for us, an updated box, maybe the end of this year, or maybe early next year. I probably don't know the specific date that Tom's got targeted, but we're working closely with them, and certainly expecting to see a new box out of them that would work on DirecTV some time in the not too distant future.​Question (Analyst):Any thoughts on how the service or the features would differ from what the TiVo is rolling out now with RCN?​Answer (CEO):You know, to be honest with you, we're all working on alot of the same things. I mean, we've got demos that we've looked at internally that include television apps, that would enable you to look at youtube on the television, that would enable you to do things with movies and photos, that do video on demand, so alot of the same, what I'll call the connected experience across your screens, we believe is quite strategic, and it's something we'll talk about as we kinda complete our strategy later this year, but the good news is we've been working on this area over the last year or two, both with our Home Media Center (HMC) and our Multi-Room Viewing (MRV), and you'll see more of that later this year, but to be honest with you, I didn't see anything in the functions and features, and we did see a demo of it, that was materially different in functions and features then the kinds of functions and features we've been looking to build into our Home Media Center and our Connected Lifestyle Initiative.​


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CEO said:


> I think we expect them to have a box for us, an updated box, maybe the end of this year, or maybe early next year.


Very confident answer, it's clear that Tivo is moving along with this quite nicely.

</sarcasm>


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Very confident answer, it's clear that Tivo is moving along with this quite nicely.
> 
> </sarcasm>


"We've provided them specs for our box, and I think we expect them to have a box for us, an updated box, maybe the end of this year, or maybe early next year ...

I probably don't know the specific date ...

but to be honest with you, I didn't see anything in the functions and features, and we did see a demo of it, that was materially different in functions and features then the kinds of functions and features we've been looking to build into our Home Media Center and our Connected Lifestyle Initiative"​
Yeah, the DirecTV CEO is really looking forward to TiVo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> "We've provided them specs for our box, and I think we expect them to have a box for us, an updated box, maybe the end of this year, or maybe early next year ...
> 
> I probably don't know the specific date ...
> 
> ...


That enthusiasm level is indeed interesting.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Yeah, the DirecTV CEO is really looking forward to TiVo.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> That enthusiasm level is indeed interesting.


While I've been quite adamant lately that my enthusiasm level has diminished greatly due to the constant delays (as well as the upcoming launch of HD-LIL in my DMA), I have to ask:

Why is his level of enthusiasm interesting?! 

~Alan


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> While I've been quite adamant lately that my enthusiasm level has diminished greatly due to the constant delays (as well as the upcoming launch of HD-LIL in my DMA), I have to ask:
> 
> Why is his level of enthusiasm interesting?!
> 
> ~Alan


IMHO, he sounded at times like he was talking about a competitor, with comments alluding to a product that wasn't needed, and giving the impression that he didn't much know or care exactly when it would be available.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> IMHO, he sounded at times like he was talking about a competitor, with comments alluding to a product that wasn't needed, and giving the impression that he didn't much know or care exactly when it would be available.


I always got that impression from DirecTV. 

~Alan


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> I always got that impression from DirecTV.
> 
> ~Alan


Which would be VERY disappointing (to me) if I was strongly interested in the product. Similar reason I've not considered TiVo on FiOS, you want a fully supported and promoted product, not the ugly stepchild.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> While I've been quite adamant lately that my enthusiasm level has diminished greatly due to the constant delays (as well as the upcoming launch of HD-LIL in my DMA), I have to ask:
> 
> *Why is his level of enthusiasm interesting*?!
> 
> ~Alan


There doesn't appear to me much of any enthusiasm...


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Which would be VERY disappointing (to me) if I was strongly interested in the product. Similar reason I've not considered TiVo on FiOS, you want a fully supported and promoted product, not the ugly stepchild.


If I had Comcast in my area, and I had a choice between the ComcasTiVo or the TiVo Series 3/TiVo Premiere, there wouldn't be a choice.

I will keep an open mind as to what the comments regarding the DirecTiVo will mean. Honestly, it could actually mean good things for those strongly interested in the product.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> There doesn't appear to me much of any enthusiasm...


As I explained to Sixto, I never expected any... 

~Alan


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Next year, next year, next year

How many years has this been going on?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

If it does indeed go into Q1/2011, then it will be nearly 30 months from announcement to availability.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> If it does indeed go into Q1/2011, then it will be nearly 30 months from announcement to availability.


It ought to be flawless by the time they get done writing all that code...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

From the sound of it DirecTV either looks at Tivo as competition or they have come to the conclusion that Tivo is insignificant and no longer a real player. I’d guess ‘no longer a real player’ is pretty close to the truth.

I despise the HR2X DVRs and had hoped for another option but after these comments I think what little hope I had is gone….. Please God, let the HR24 be an improvement and let it be soon!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Possibly early next year?!?

That doesn’t sound very good. I would almost think that this is a death knell for the DirecTiVo. By the time it comes out the HR24 will be the primary box. With its speed and features, I don’t think there will be much of a demand for the TiVo. I know there are quite a few here who want it but will that be enough to make it commercially viable? It’s just a guess but I would say no.

Just my opinion FWIW. 

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

matt1124 said:


> It ought to be flawless by the time they get done writing all that code...


In theory that makes alot of sense...in practice....not so sure.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> From the sound of it DirecTV either looks at Tivo as competition or they have come to the conclusion that Tivo is insignificant and no longer a real player. I'd guess 'no longer a real player' is pretty close to the truth.
> 
> I despise the HR2X DVRs and had hoped for another option but after these comments I think what little hope I had is gone&#8230;.. Please God, let the HR24 be an improvement and let it be soon!


Remember, this is TiVo's product .. DIRECTV will market and sell it and has provided the specs needed for TiVo to put it together. It will be using DIRECTV hardware, but is TiVo software. So really, from DIRECTV's point of view (even the execs), It's a black box and they are just waiting for the finished product like the rest of us. That seemed clear from the comments today.

On inspection (via demo) it simply seemed that the CEO felt that the TiVo was a similar product to what he'd seen from the home media center. We heard snippets of what one guy thought when he sampled the new TiVo. DIRECTV doesn't seem anxious to get it, but I didn't get a sense that they where disheartened by it either. I fully expect that folks that must have TiVo will be happy with a new TiVo .. I don't really expect the execs @ DIRECTV to really be personally interested in it because they have their own receivers that they are used to and enjoy.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Remember, this is TiVo's product .. DIRECTV will market and sell it and has provided the specs needed for TiVo to put it together. It will be using DIRECTV hardware, but is TiVo software. So really, from DIRECTV's point of view (even the execs), It's a black box and they are just waiting for the finished product like the rest of us. That seemed clear from the comments today.
> 
> On inspection (via demo) it simply seemed that the CEO felt that the TiVo was a similar product to what he'd seen from the home media center. We heard snippets of what one guy thought when he sampled the new TiVo. DIRECTV doesn't seem anxious to get it, but I didn't get a sense that they where disheartened by it either. I fully expect that folks that must have TiVo will be happy with a new TiVo .. I don't really expect the execs @ DIRECTV to really be personally interested in it because they have their own receivers that they are used to and enjoy.


I think that is a fair and thorough assessment of where things are at this point in time.

I'm sure those folks who are Tivo groupies will like the new unit. Those who have less passion for Tivo will be pleased with their comparable DirecTV units. It appears that its all about customers having choices...which is a good thing.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Remember, this is TiVo's product .. DIRECTV will market and sell it and has provided the specs needed for TiVo to put it together. It will be using DIRECTV hardware, but is TiVo software. So really, from DIRECTV's point of view (even the execs), It's a black box and they are just waiting for the finished product like the rest of us. That seemed clear from the comments today.
> 
> On inspection (via demo) it simply seemed that the CEO felt that the TiVo was a similar product to what he'd seen from the home media center. We heard snippets of what one guy thought when he sampled the new TiVo. DIRECTV doesn't seem anxious to get it, but I didn't get a sense that they where disheartened by it either. I fully expect that folks that must have TiVo will be happy with a new TiVo .. I don't really expect the execs @ DIRECTV to really be personally interested in it because they have their own receivers that they are used to and enjoy.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> I think that is a fair and thorough assessment of where things are at this point in time.


Ditto! 



MicroBeta said:


> By the time it comes out the HR24 will be the primary box. With its speed and features, I don't think there will be much of a demand for the TiVo.


FEATURES?!?! :eek2:

~Alan


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> FEATURES?!?! :eek2:
> 
> ~Alan


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Even when he was forced to respond to the TiVo question, he was talking about DirecTV’s own “initiative” and its own HMC and MRV. It almost sounded as if he was telling the TiVo lovers (if there are enough left here, or are there?) that the new TiVo will not be able to match the functionalities of DirecTV’s own new DVRs, so please plan your future accordingly.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


>


Sorry! 

Just messing with you! It's been a pet peeve of mine since the First Look thread.

Seriously though, I'm sure the HR24 is a great unit, and it sounds like the speed is a FANTASTIC improvement, but from replys of the First Look team, it doesn't appear to be any different than previous units other than speed.

It will be interesting to know whether or not that changes by the time the new DirecTiVo comes out though! 

~Alan


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Which would be VERY disappointing (to me) if I was strongly interested in the product. Similar reason I've not considered TiVo on FiOS, you want a fully supported and promoted product, not the ugly stepchild.


Not sure why you think the TiVos that will work with FiOS are the ugly Stepchildren since FiOS only eliminates analog recordings. The Series 3, HD and Premiere all work on FiOS.



jacmyoung said:


> Even when he was forced to respond to the TiVo question, he was talking about DirecTV's own "initiative" and its own HMC and MRV. It almost sounded as if he was telling the TiVo lovers (if there are enough left here, or are there?) that the new TiVo will not be able to match the functionalities of DirecTV's own new DVRs, so please plan your future accordingly.


The problem though like in the case of the people I know who are holding out don't care about the features for the most part. They want the TiVo experience down to the UI. My father and brother would be happy with a TiVo that can record HD on Directv. If the Sunday Ticket wasn't exclusive and available elsewhere, they would have already made the switch.

If the TiVo did everything the series 2 Directivo or the H10-250 did, they would be happy as long as they could record in HD.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Brennok said:


> Not sure why you think the TiVos that will work with FiOS are the ugly Stepchildren since FiOS only eliminates analog recordings. The Series 3, HD and Premiere all work on FiOS.


Yep, works fine, but not "fully" supported by FiOS. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer a platform that is fully embraced by the content/service provider, with all the bells and whistles. And yes, the TiVo Series3 (I have one) is better in many respects then the FiOS provided DVR, but not fully supported.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Yep, works fine, but not "fully" supported by FiOS. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer a platform that is fully embraced by the content/service provider, with all the bells and whistles. And yes, the TiVo Series3 (I have one) is better in many respects then the FiOS provided DVR, but not fully supported.


Of course the problem with fully supported is you are limited to what the provider offers and hopefully the features you want are included. In my case this was no longer the case with Directv.

The only thing FiOS with TiVo doesn't support is VOD and PPV unless there is something else you are thinking of that I am missing. Of course then the only way to get this support is to rent the cable companies hardware.

I originally rented a HD STB when I made the switch, but it didn't get turned on the entire 3 months I had it for free so it went back. I have more than enough to keep me busy with my TiVo recordings and 7MC recordings. I still have shows from last season I haven't started not to mention other shows I haven't even started just sitting there.

I guess to me "fully" supported doesn't mean much if it is at a loss of functionality.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Brennok said:


> I guess to me "fully" supported doesn't mean much if it is at a loss of functionality.


We're good. Yep, was referring to VOD and PPV.

Just bugs me big-time when the provider doesn't embrace the DVR platform.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Sixto said:


> We're good. Yep, was referring to VOD and PPV.
> 
> Just bugs me big-time when the provider doesn't embrace the DVR platform.


True and I can understand that, but at the same time I hate it when providers remove features before they will fully embrace the platform like the series 2 Directivo and possibly the new HD Directivo if it ever comes out. It also depends on what features hold more value for you. VOD and PPV are at the bottom of my list since I transfer all my recordings to my Windows Home Server so I ultimately have my personal VOD setup.

Take the recent RCN TiVo Premiere. It supports their VOD system but you lose Amazon and Netflix. The price is fair imho though at $20 a month, which includes all fees such as the cable card rental and TiVo subscription fee, compared to most cable companies and what they charge for a DVR. Even better it works with a mixed household so you can have the RCN version in one room where you would want VOD, but then can have an owned TiVo in the other where you want Netflix and Amazon. Also since you also activate the box through TiVo you still have access to MRV.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Brennok said:


> Of course the problem with fully supported is you are limited to what the provider offers and hopefully the features you want are included. In my case this was no longer the case with Directv.
> 
> The only thing FiOS with TiVo doesn't support is VOD and PPV unless there is something else you are thinking of that I am missing. Of course then the only way to get this support is to rent the cable companies hardware.
> 
> ...


I guess "fully supported" for him also means "HD supported", but since you apparently are not an HD person, aside from not being an VOD/PPV person, it does not matter either.

Are you an MRV person (the new DirecTiVo did not mention MRV)? I guess the list can be longer than you think.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Remember, this is TiVo's product .. DIRECTV will market and sell it and has provided the specs needed for TiVo to put it together. It will be using DIRECTV hardware, but is TiVo software. So really, from DIRECTV's point of view (even the execs), It's a black box and they are just waiting for the finished product like the rest of us. That seemed clear from the comments today.
> 
> On inspection (via demo) it simply seemed that the CEO felt that the TiVo was a similar product to what he'd seen from the home media center. We heard snippets of what one guy thought when he sampled the new TiVo. DIRECTV doesn't seem anxious to get it, but I didn't get a sense that they where disheartened by it either. I fully expect that folks that must have TiVo will be happy with a new TiVo .. I don't really expect the execs @ DIRECTV to really be personally interested in it because they have their own receivers that they are used to and enjoy.


You are probably right but it sure seems as if DirecTV doesn't know much or care much about Tivo. He could have at least faked some emotion.... It is the lack of emotion that jumps out at me.

It has been so long since they announced the thing you'd think even DirecTV would like it show up or just go away so people will stop talking about how far behind it is...


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> It has been so long since they announced the thing you'd think even DirecTV would like it show up or just go away so people will stop talking about how far behind it is...


TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.

Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.

I have no doubt in my mind that DirecTV looks at the TiVo arrangement as a way to make sure they are protected from lawsuits, and if they get any TiVoholics to subscribe to their service because of the new DirecTiVo, all the better.

Either way, any lateness does not reflect on them.

~Alan


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

jacmyoung said:


> I guess "fully supported" for him also means "HD supported", but since you apparently are not an HD person, aside from not being an VOD/PPV person, it does not matter either.
> 
> Are you an MRV person (the new DirecTiVo did not mention MRV)? I guess the list can be longer than you think.


You may want to re-read the posts. I was asking him about his comment about not being fully supported on FiOS. If anything your reply is what I am referring to about having a TiVo that is fully supported at the loss of features.

My TiVo is HD supported since it is on FiOS since I left Directv. I only record HD. I don't know where you got I am not a HD person. It was another benefit of switching to FiOS since they don't charge extra for HD.

Also since we were discussing the TiVos that work with FiOS I am a MRV person. FiOS doesn't flag anything so everything can be transferred. This is one of the big reasons I don't need VOD. I currently have around 10TB of HD recordings backed up for when I eventually get to them.


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## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

I would think for TIVO to market a viable box for D* it will have to have significant bells and whistles over and above the D* boxes. I could envision a complete home media solution including unrestricted internet access with PIP integration. Just thinkin.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.
> 
> Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.
> 
> ...


BINGO!!

This post should be stickied to the top of of every DirecTiVo thread.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I just want my TIVO style guide and full time dual buffers. After years of using the HR series I still despise that guide. A two year old could have came up with a better design.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> I just want my TIVO style guide and full time dual buffers. After years of using the HR series I still despise that guide. A two year old could have came up with a better design.


Could a two-year old design it to work on all the legacy hardware out there and be consistent across all of the hardware? We are all aware of the reasons for the current guide. By the adoption rate of the DVR product, it seems not to have hampered growth.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Want Tivo? This is my solution:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=176777


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Want Tivo? This is my solution:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=176777


You're switching to cable...how ingenious!  How come none of us thought of that solution?


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Brennok said:


> You may want to re-read the posts. I was asking him about his comment about not being fully supported on FiOS. If anything your reply is what I am referring to about having a TiVo that is fully supported at the loss of features.
> 
> My TiVo is HD supported since it is on FiOS since I left Directv. I only record HD. I don't know where you got I am not a HD person. It was another benefit of switching to FiOS since they don't charge extra for HD.
> 
> Also since we were discussing the TiVos that work with FiOS I am a MRV person. FiOS doesn't flag anything so everything can be transferred. This is one of the big reasons I don't need VOD. I currently have around 10TB of HD recordings backed up for when I eventually get to them.


If so, do you not realize you are in the wrong thread and wrong forum? I believe he was talking, and in fact we are all talking about the DirecTiVo? What kind of "features" will be missing in the supposed new DirecTiVo.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

All I can say is, it's looking like my prediction of 1Q11 might even be optimistic.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> If it does indeed go into Q1/2011, then it will be nearly 30 months from announcement to availability.


Wow, two and a half years. Companies are created from an idea and have actual products out in that time. If they can't take a staff of people that already knows how to secure hardware partners and write software for a DVR and deliver a product in that time, I really have to wonder what is going on over there. And I'm a TiVO fan and was on the waiting list from day one for the HR10-250.


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## MKAM (May 15, 2007)

hmm... 30 months wait for the Directivo... when it's been at least a 5 year wait for the Home Media Center from Directv ?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MKAM said:


> hmm... 30 months wait for the Directivo... when it's been at least a 5 year wait for the Home Media Center from Directv ?


Nice one .. :grin:

The HMC (v1) was scratched the best I can tell. The underpinning technology has changed so drastically since then the HMC (v2) is really a different product. So technically the original HMC from DIRECTV will never happen at all and is officially vaporware, but I think everyone realized that long ago.

The new TiVo is still viable, but if there is no showing of it on or before CES2011, then it, too is officially vaporware (in my mind).


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Nice one .. :grin:
> 
> The HMC (v1) was scratched the best I can tell. The underpinning technology has changed so drastically since then the HMC (v2) is really a different product. So technically the original HMC from DIRECTV will never happen at all and is officially vaporware, but I think everyone realized that long ago.
> 
> The new TiVo is still viable, but if there is no showing of it on or before CES2011, then it, too is officially vaporware (in my mind).


From my vantage point, I share all those perspectives.

I plan to be there in January at CES 2011...so it will be high on the "must see" list roaming the floor and corridors. We tried this year, with no success as most know.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well.... it should be interesting to see if you have any more success next January. I rather doubt it. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that given their trend, TiVo's presence will be limited to appointment-only at CES2011.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well.... it should be interesting to see if you have any more success next January. I rather doubt it. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that given their trend, TiVo's presence will be limited to appointment-only at CES2011.


That would not surprise me...that's the drill they ran this year pretty much too.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.
> 
> Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.
> 
> ...


I'm with ya. Kinda done waiting too. I mean what the hell at this point. I have a DVR, its a little slow menu wise, but it works. It does what I need it to do and as much as I like TiVo, I'm just tired of waiting.

I think this Tivo deal is an epic fail at this point. :nono2:

The only thing that will save it at this point is if the HMC30 is Tivo based, but I'm not getting my hopes up there either.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.
> 
> Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.
> 
> ...


I'm not blaming DirecTV - But you'd think DirecTV would push Tivo to either do something or quit telling people 'soon'.

I agree that DirecTV made this agreement to stay out of the Tivo lawsuits.

I don't think it reflects well on DirecTV but not a big deal..


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm not blaming DirecTV - But you'd think DirecTV would push Tivo to either do something or quit telling people 'soon'.
> 
> I agree that DirecTV made this agreement to stay out of the Tivo lawsuits.
> 
> I don't think it reflects well on DirecTV but not a big deal..


I don't think DIRECTV really cares .. Their real part in this (which is done according to the conference call information) was basically to tell TiVo that "Yeah, you can make another box" and "Here's the specs you need to do it" .. Then "see you on the other side."

If it happens, DIRECTV could get more subs (or keep some subs) because of the TiVo interface. If it doesn't happen, the number of subs who refuse to keep DIRECTV because of the lack of TiVo is very small (practically speaking) so any real dollar loss is small.

Bottom line is that this situation is win-win for DIRECTV .. DIRECTV has no motivation to push (or prevent) TiVo from completing it's task. As I've been saying all along, this is in TiVo's court to finish .. DIRECTV is just waiting for it to be done.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.
> 
> Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.
> 
> ...


You got it. Many of us have been saying this since day 1 of the new agreement. The whole point was to protect DirecTV from being sued and Tivo got a new box approved by telling DirecTV they wanted to do a new box and if DirecTV wanted that lawsuit protection renewed then they better say yes. DirecTV said "sure, why not, no lose situation for us". And the few million DirecTV has spend on R&D is a whole lot less then they would pay if sued. Win-win for DirecTV even if it never comes out.

But for some reason Tivo has not taken advantage of the situation which is a total mystery because with every passing day less and less people care about a new DirecTivo solution either having left DirecTV or find the HR2x more then good enough.

Sure some will sell if it comes out, but there is basically zero chance it becomes a "hit". Not when 10-11 million people already have the HR2x with a 70% uptake with new users. No way a new DirecTivo will make any inroads into that. A few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands will get it. But overall the silence in the room will be deafening.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> You got it. Many of us have been saying this since day 1 of the new agreement. The whole point was to protect DirecTV from being sued ...


Many of you may be wrong At the time the new agreement was released, DirecTV already owned the ReplayTV IPs, there was no real fear of a lawsuit from TiVo anymore. I'd agree had it been back in 2006, yes there was the threat of the lawsuit, but not after DirecTV owned ReplayTV.

The real reason to release that agreement on 9/3/08, as I had speculated from day one, was to handicap DISH. The new agreement allowed TiVo to claim that DirecTV agreed to a "significantly higher monthly fee" for the new DirecTiVo DVR, the next day, 9/4/08, TiVo and DISH were scheduled in court hearing on the issue of contempt, when TiVo asked the judge to impose a significantly higher damage rate.

A very smart move by DirecTV.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Many of you may be wrong At the time the new agreement was released, DirecTV already owned the ReplayTV IPs, there was no real fear of a lawsuit from TiVo anymore. I'd agree had it been back in 2006, yes there was the threat of the lawsuit, but not after DirecTV owned ReplayTV.


TiVo & Replay had a no-sue clause that may or may not have carried over to DIRECTV. I think what we saw with the 2008 announcement was a bit of insurance by DIRECTV. Sure, the Replay Patents were probably used as leverage during negotiations, but would they have held up in court? Replay's Patents were 1 week AFTER the TiVo Patents IIRC, so there could be an argument whereby TiVo had a shot at winning if a lawsuit were ever filed.

DIRECTV probably took the prudent move of signing the agreement and moving on. In the end it cost DIRECTV a few million dollars (Buying Replay + negotiations w/TiVo), but there is no protracted legal battle with potentially indeterminate costs.



> The real reason to release that agreement on 9/3/08, as I had speculated from day one, was to handicap DISH. The new agreement allowed TiVo to claim that DirecTV agreed to a "significantly higher monthly fee" for the new DirecTiVo DVR, the next day, 9/4/08, TiVo and DISH were scheduled in court hearing on the issue of contempt, when TiVo asked the judge to impose a significantly higher damage rate.
> 
> A very smart move by DirecTV.


You may in fact believe that it had to do with DISH .. I think you are wrong about that. Sure, there are competitive issues, but had DISH simply signed on with TiVo rather than putting up a fight your argument wouldn't even make sense. DIRECTV doesn't have control over what DISH decides how they run their business. It's easy to look back and say that that is what happened, but I doubt it played any significant role when DIRECTV was making the decision to go or not go with TiVo.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

LOL. I can't believe people still care about this non-existant vaporware. I think its pretty clear from the conference call that a new DirecTivo will NEVER see the light of day.

Seems pretty obvious to me that the contract extension was really just a cheaper way to get out of a Tivo lawsuit.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> TiVo & Replay had a no-sue clause that may or may not have carried over to DIRECTV. I think what we saw with the 2008 announcement was a bit of insurance by DIRECTV. ...


I do not deny the insurance part, but when TiVo and ReplayTV had their no sue agreeement, it was based in part on some cross licensing fashion, meaning they had agreed their own IPs held water which led to the no sue agreement, as such, even though the agreement did not extend to DirecTV, the IPs did not change, the court would not seriously entertain a lawsuit by TiVo against DirecTV on the same IPs, all DirecTV had to do was to lay out those agreements and their fine details.

If you think it was hard for TiVo to go after DISH for all those years, then there is no chance TiVo will do after DirecTV with ReplayTV IP in hand.



Doug Brott said:


> ...but had DISH simply signed on with TiVo rather than putting up a fight your argument wouldn't even make sense...


But they did not, that is why it made all the sense. Had DISH and TiVo signed an agreement long time ago, you and I would not have been talking about this today.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung, we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I think you're wrong about the primary reason being to handicap DISH.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Maybe this isn't the right thread for legal issues. I strongly recommend you take that discussion up in a thread here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

SledgeHammer said:


> LOL. I can't believe people still care about this non-existant vaporware. I think its pretty clear from the conference call that a new DirecTivo will NEVER see the light of day...


Yes, people still do care about whether an MPEG-4 TiVo appears. From my viewpoint, I'm going to eventually take one of three paths:
1. Get the new TiVo (two of 'em).
2. Settle for two MRV'd HR24s (if there's going to be no new TiVo in 2011).
3. Leave D* and join E*.

BTW, what's clear from the conference call is only that the guys who run D* don't care when, or even whether, the MPEG-4 TiVo appears.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> what's clear from the conference call is only that the guys who run D* don't care when, or even whether, the MPEG-4 TiVo appears.


I think that's been clear for a long time.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I agree with Jeremy W here. (Yes, you don't read that very much :lol


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> TiVo & Replay had a no-sue clause that may or may not have carried over to DIRECTV.


Not really. They just mutually agreed to drop their lawsuits with the understanding that the lawsuits could be reinstated at any time (they were dismissed without prejudice).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> BTW, what's clear from the conference call is only that the guys who run D* don't care when, or even whether, the MPEG-4 TiVo appears.


Tom Rogers last public statements (AFAIK) about the box didn't seem very enthusiastic to me either, to be honest. You can judge for yourself here.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Tom Rogers has hinted that the new DirecTV box was part of a no-sue negotiation.

He was specifically asked about DirecTV, Dish, AT&T, and Verizon several months ago.

His wording at the time was very curious.

He discussed the Dish situation, then mentioned that he couldn't work the same DirecTV deal with AT&T and Verizon, so they needed to sue.

I left that call 100% convinced that the box deal was related.

Maybe not, but certainly seemed related to me, based on his answer to the question.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Curtis52 said:


> Not really. They just mutually agreed to drop their lawsuits with the understanding that the lawsuits could be reinstated at any time (they were dismissed without prejudice).


Perhaps .. but the text of the release says:


> ... extended their current agreement, which includes [...] the extension of mutual intellectual property arrangements.


The release is a little vague, but my understanding is they can each go on their merry way in development without worrying so much over whose Patent does what. There is likely a compensation element as well either one way or two way, but not having the contract in front of me I really don't know.

Practically speaking, it's a no-sue clause until the Patents expire in 2018 (assuming options are exercised). As long as neither side does something incredibly stupid, there is very likely no reason to be concerned.


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Perhaps .. but the text of the release says:
> 
> The release is a little vague, but my understanding is they can each go on their merry way in development without worrying so much over whose Patent does what. There is likely a compensation element as well either one way or two way, but not having the contract in front of me I really don't know.
> 
> Practically speaking, it's a no-sue clause until the Patents expire in 2018 (assuming options are exercised). As long as neither side does something incredibly stupid, there is very likely no reason to be concerned.


DirecTV and TiVo definitely have a "no sue" clause. I was writing about ReplayTV and TiVo. They only mutually withdrew their lawsuits with the option to reinstate them. I guess it doesn't much matter these days since DirecTV and TiVo have an agreement.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Yes, people still do care about whether an MPEG-4 TiVo appears. From my viewpoint, I'm going to eventually take one of three paths:
> 1. Get the new TiVo (two of 'em).
> 2. Settle for two MRV'd HR24s (if there's going to be no new TiVo in 2011).
> 3. Leave D* and join E*.
> ...


Yeah, you *should* care about an MPEG4 Tivo, but you *shouldn't* care about vaporware that will never see the light of day.

1) DTV signed the deal to prevent lawsuits
2) DTV has better things to do then market / support 2 completely different DVRs.
3) I dunno how long you've been with DTV, but back in the day, you had approx. 30 choices of box. There were a bunch of different brands and each brand typically had 3 or 4 models.

It was a consistent UI, but features varied widely, even stuff like the location of the card door varied. That was too much for the call center monkeys.

So they shook out all the 3rd party makers and went to a single box design.

If I was a company, I'd do that too.

I don't see them spending the time, effort and money to start supporting multiple boxes and with completely different UIs none the less!

This box will never see the light of day unless DTV gets behind it, and they clearly have no interest in doing so.

If they did, they wouldn't bother with weekly CEs .


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> If they did, they wouldn't bother with weekly CEs .


With this much time, the software will surely be the most elegant and perfect code ever written.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> It was a consistent UI


What? Each company made their own UI, there was nothing consistent about anything aside from the fact that all of the receivers worked with DirecTV.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> jacmyoung, we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I think you're wrong about the primary reason being to handicap DISH.


I never said you were wrong, nor did I ever say we may not agree to disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine. Agreeing to disagree is a given in a civilized debate, I usually do not see the need to stress this part.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Curtis52 said:


> DirecTV and TiVo definitely have a "no sue" clause. I was writing about ReplayTV and TiVo. They only mutually withdrew their lawsuits with the option to reinstate them. I guess it doesn't much matter these days since DirecTV and TiVo have an agreement.


But why? ReplayTV had no resources to even sustain much of a lawsuit with TiVo, TiVo nevertheless agreed to the truce. If you believe now the ReplayTV IPs are in DirecTV's hands, and with DirecTV's resources, TiVo would dare to take on DirecTV again, I have a bridge to sell you, that is even if DirecTV and TiVo have no no-sue agreement.

DirecTV did not buy ReplayTV because they liked the logo.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> What? Each company made their own UI, there was nothing consistent about anything aside from the fact that all of the receivers worked with DirecTV.


Hmm... my bad. I could have sworn they were all the same except for some minor branding stuff and disabled feature related stuff.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Hmm... my bad. I could have sworn they were all the same except for some minor branding stuff and disabled feature related stuff.


Nope, they were totally different.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Nope, they were totally different.


Yeah, I started with Sony receivers. When I had to help someone out with Hughes, I was sooooo confused. Then Tivo came along and it was all different again. More like the standalone Tivos.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Nope, they were totally different.


They certainly were.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yea, they were different even from the same company. I had two Sony's and both had totally different UI's.

That is the main reason why they went down to just one UI that is the same across all their receivers, DVR or no DVR. The support costs were huge with so many UI's.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, they were different even from the same company. I had two Sony's and both had totally different UI's.


Well, technically, so did mine. My Sony receivers were different from my first DVR (which was Tivo running on a Sony).


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## sundog (May 8, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> If it does indeed go into Q1/2011, then it will be nearly 30 months from announcement to availability.


Hopefully not longer. I just found this blurb basically saying it's Q1'11:

May 6 (Reuters) - DIRECTV:

# SAYS EXPECTS TIVO INC TO DELIVER AN UPDATED SET-TOP BOX FOR DIRECTV
customer "later this year or early next year"


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> From the sound of it DirecTV either looks at Tivo as competition or they have come to the conclusion that Tivo is insignificant and no longer a real player. I'd guess 'no longer a real player' is pretty close to the truth.
> 
> I despise the HR2X DVRs and had hoped for another option but after these comments I think what little hope I had is gone&#8230;.. Please God, let the HR24 be an improvement and let it be soon!


TiVo never was significant for DirecTV. The HR24 is steaming full speed ahead, and with SWiM/ MRV/ DECA, it's a pretty powerful platform. There's not much for TiVo to differentiate on.



Alan Gordon said:


> TiVo's the one that is far behind. Not DirecTV.
> 
> Look, I'm a "TiVoholic", but I don't believe for a second that any new DirecTiVo will be a threat to the HR2x.
> 
> ...


That's probably it. And it's a no-lose proposition for DirecTV, as if the box ever exists, they can charge a premium fee for it over the HR2x, and increase their ARPU a teeny, tiny bit.

Even if their IP for ReplayTV theoretically covers them, whats the harm in coming to an agreement with TiVo just to be 100% sure? The worst thing that happens is a relatively tiny (to DirecTV) amount of R&D money goes down the drain.

The other perspective is that the TiVo project as a whole will have a decent ROI, even if it gets lost in rounding error on DirecTV's quarterly statements, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with DirecTV's connected home strategy moving forward (although I should hope it can do MRV/DECA with other HR2X boxes).

What I don't get is why it's taking TiVo so long. It's not even based on the Premiere platform. The Series 3 and newer can handle MPEG4-AVC, all they need to do is add two DirecTV tuners to the existing two tuners (which would then be only for ATSC-8VSB).


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.

I, for one, would trade in my HR21 and HR10 for two new TiVos, and would never again have a reason to point out DirecTV's continuing errors and their failure to address them. And I'm sure other discerning subscribers would also switch to TiVo and stop complaining about the HR2x software.

D* fanboys will now jump on me, saying all sorts of things about how the new TiVo is sure to be buggy too, and even asserting that the HR2x software gives them "no problems at all," but all that would be missing my point: There would be far fewer complaints about the HR2x if the TiVo option existed.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.
> 
> I, for one, would trade in my HR21 and HR10 for two new TiVos, and would never again have a reason to point out DirecTV's continuing errors and their failure to address them. And I'm sure other discerning subscribers would also switch to TiVo and stop complaining about the HR2x software.
> 
> D* fanboys will now jump on me, saying all sorts of things about how the new TiVo is sure to be buggy too, and even asserting that the HR2x software gives them "no problems at all," but all that would be missing my point: There would be far fewer complaints about the HR2x if the TiVo option existed.


The new TiVo's will be buggy. Given time (like with the HRs) they will become less buggy. All software ships with known defects. That's a fact. It's a trade-off of what can and shouold be fixed, and how much bugginess the consumer is willing to tolerate.

Also, when, and if, the new HD DirecTivos come out, there will still be people complaining about the HRs, plus a whole new group complaining that the TiVos are buggy and not as feature complete as they would like them to be.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.
> 
> I, for one, would trade in my HR21 and HR10 for two new TiVos, and would never again have a reason to point out DirecTV's continuing errors and their failure to address them. And I'm sure other discerning subscribers would also switch to TiVo and stop complaining about the HR2x software.
> 
> D* fanboys will now jump on me, saying all sorts of things about how the new TiVo is sure to be buggy too, and even asserting that the HR2x software gives them "no problems at all," but all that would be missing my point: There would be far fewer complaints about the HR2x if the TiVo option existed.


While I don't doubt what you say is true, it really doesn't matter how much complaining there is on the Internet. The vast majority of DirecTV's customers never see those complaints and DirecTV keeps signing up HR2x subs at a record rate. The Tivo fanboys complaining on the net has not hurt DirecTV at all.

Honestly, if the HR2x was that bad customers would be leaving DirecTV in droves. They aren't. Not to say people don't have problems, but it's pretty obvious that most don't, at least in the "unwashed masses".


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.
> 
> I, for one, would trade in my HR21 and HR10 for two new TiVos, and would never again have a reason to point out DirecTV's continuing errors and their failure to address them. And I'm sure other discerning subscribers would also switch to TiVo and stop complaining about the HR2x software.
> 
> D* fanboys will now jump on me, saying all sorts of things about how the new TiVo is sure to be buggy too, and even asserting that the HR2x software gives them "no problems at all," but all that would be missing my point: There would be far fewer complaints about the HR2x if the TiVo option existed.


Would that just be because if the Tivos are buggy you would have to shut up because you have been making the Tivos out to be everything good about the world and the HRs as everything bad?

For me, I don't care if you complain or not. You have complained so much and made it clear that you are a complete Tivoholic that your posts only make me smile or laugh.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.


All over the Internet? You mean all over the places *you *frequent on the Internet.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> You mean all over the places *you *frequent on the Internet.


Well, duh! If I didn't go there, how would I know people are complaining?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Well, duh! If I didn't go there, how would I know people are complaining?


Hahahaha.

Or maybe you are not being deliberately obtuse.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Bigg said:


> TiVo never was significant for DirecTV. The HR24 is steaming full speed ahead, and with SWiM/ MRV/ DECA, it's a pretty powerful platform. *There's not much for TiVo to differentiate on.*


I disagree with the sentence I bolded and underlined above.

~Alan


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.
> 
> I, for one, would trade in my HR21 and HR10 for two new TiVos, and would never again have a reason to point out DirecTV's continuing errors and their failure to address them. And I'm sure other discerning subscribers would also switch to TiVo and stop complaining about the HR2x software.
> 
> D* fanboys will now jump on me, saying all sorts of things about how the new TiVo is sure to be buggy too, and even asserting that the HR2x software gives them "no problems at all," but all that would be missing my point: There would be far fewer complaints about the HR2x if the TiVo option existed.


Sorry, but your saying this all wrong.. I know you think its buggy software, but its NOT. DO some people have issues, yes, BUTY, Most of the things you think are wrong with the HR's are not wrong, they just work different than a Tivo, and therefore adding a tivo will simply give people 2 choices of GUI's, rather than fixing your dislike of the way the HR's function...

And that is what will allow a few minuscule number of people to stop complaining about the HR's.. Cause they'll switch to tivos, and then everyone will be happy. I think that is a GREAT solution to everyone's issues! I HATE Tivo software. If I looked at software on the Tivo the way you look at software on an HR, I'd call Tivo the largest epic FAIL of software ever released for any product in the world.... But I don't.. I look at it as just being different, for the most part...

Again, its all about giving people 2 simple options, rather than offering them 50 like they did in the old days...


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I disagree with the sentence I bolded and underlined above.
> 
> ~Alan


You are right in that standalone Tivo has YouTube and Netflix and all that stuff (but it sounds like DirecTV is going that way, too, from the last financial meeting).

But let me tell you about the Tivo Netflix implementation. It is not all that good. It would be wonderful if you had nothing to compare it to but I pretty much didn't use it after playing with it because the Roku does it much better. Quicker interface with fewer dropouts for me.

Unless you were talking about series limits (never a problem for me) or suggestions (something I used for about 2 months of having a Tivo around for years and years). Then I will disagree in that those "features" are hardly differentiators. Heck, from reading tivocommunity, it sounds like most users had suggestions turned on to act as a fake disk free indicator!


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Unless you were talking about series limits (never a problem for me) or suggestions (something I used for about 2 months of having a Tivo around for years and years). Then I will disagree in that those "features" are hardly differentiators. Heck, from reading tivocommunity, it sounds like most users had suggestions turned on to act as a fake disk free indicator!


That would be two of the things I was referring to.

Another feature was TiVo KidZone.

Though one might lump it in with no limit on SP/SL, you can also add unlimited Wishlists/Autorecords, and of course Saved Searches.

If done right, TiVo can still differentiate their product from the HR2x, and can indeed market themselves as a Premium product over the HR2x.

I doubt many people will care enough to pay the premium, but to say that they can't differentiate themselves from the HR2x is something I disagree with.

~Alan


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> One factor that has never been brought up, AFAIK, is this *huge benefit to DirecTV* if the MPEG-4 TiVo becomes available: *Greatly decreased squawking *- all over the Internet - about DirecTV's woefully buggy software.


If DIRECTV really had "woefully buggy" software, then the up take would not be as high as it has been and we'd certainly see the pains present in numerous threads here. While there are sometimes issues, all in all the "this thing is crappy" posts are fairly minimal these days.

Certainly, the HR2x works differently than the TiVo and you may (OK, you don't) like that .. It doesn't make it buggy .. It makes it different than the way you want it.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It's always tough to make general country wide statements, but I feel fairly confident that a properly setup and speedy HR2x is just fine for a very LARGE percentage of the DirecTV community.

As I've probably said multiple times, I consider my family to be J6P, and discussion of the DVR(s) is never a topic of conversation. It just plain works, with never an issue since late-2006 (except once an eSATA hard-drive that needed to be replaced in 2009).

Now, they exclusively only use HR20-700's, soon to possibly be HR24-500's, so we have no speed issues, but for mom and pop, the kids, the general user community, the HR2x is a fine box.

And for those that prefer the TiVo UI, that probably will be a fine box as well.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Alan Gordon said:


> That would be two of the things I was referring to.
> 
> Another feature was TiVo KidZone.
> 
> ...


+ Deleted Folder, List Guide, Tivo DLB's, these are also important to me heck I'm still on sd DTivos because of the features Alan & Syzygy have mentioned. Sure I'm dying to have a HD dvr but so far I'm not willing to give up any of these features especially a limit on Season Passes.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

mccoady said:


> + Deleted Folder, List Guide, Tivo DLB's, these are also important to me heck I'm still on sd DTivos because of the features Alan & Syzygy have mentioned. Sure I'm dying to have a HD dvr but so far I'm not willing to give up any of these features especially a limit on Season Passes.


DOH! I totally blanked on listing the Deleted Folder. I'm seriously hoping that will eventually make it's way to the HR2x.

While I prefer TiVo's version of DLB, I seriously doubt that can be effectively marketed above DirecTV's DoublePlay.

As for the List Guide, I like TiVo's Guide, and there are advantages to it not present on the HR2x, but I honestly prefer DirecTV's GRID guide that allows you to click on individual channels to see upcoming programming.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> It's always tough to make general country wide statements, but I feel fairly confident that a properly setup and speedy HR2x is just fine for a very LARGE percentage of the DirecTV community.


Agreed!

... and the continuing delays have not contributed to my feeling that way.

Even with my preference for the TiVo GUI, I have always felt that any new DirecTiVo would be a "niche" product for those who want something "extra"... though DirecTV has managed GREATLY to reduce the margin in that something "extra", it DOES still exist.



Sixto said:


> It just plain works, with never an issue since late-2006 (except once an eSATA hard-drive that needed to be replaced in 2009).


Agreed again!

Feature preferences and GUI complaints aside, never any serious issues (other than an eSATA hard drive going bad), and any minor issues could be forgiven due to the fact that I'm MOST usually on a CE during those years, and they are eventually straightened out.

I'm still disappointed by the speeds of the HR21/22/23 units, but given tonyd79's statements, TiVo has the same issues with the TiVoHD, so they're not any better at that.

~Alan


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> DOH! I totally blanked on listing the Deleted Folder. I'm seriously hoping that will eventually make it's way to the HR2x.
> 
> While I prefer TiVo's version of DLB, I seriously doubt that can be effectively marketed above DirecTV's DoublePlay.
> 
> ...


I hate the deleted folder on the Tivo. When I delete something, I want it deleted. I was always deleting things from the deleted folder.

Also, the Tivo guide never caught my fancy either. Never understood why people wanted to see an unbalanced schedule thing like the Tivo guide.

Anyway, these are not differentiators. Gee, how do you base a commercial or ad on these? These are MINOR differences.

(For that matter, never understood guru guides or kid zone. I played with them both and found them to be very buggy, incomplete and full of stuff that didn't exist. Also, they never found the HD channels, only the SD ones. In short, while the concept was good, the execution rendered them pretty much unuseable.)


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

mccoady said:


> + Deleted Folder, List Guide, Tivo DLB's, these are also important to me heck I'm still on sd DTivos because of the features Alan & Syzygy have mentioned. Sure I'm dying to have a HD dvr but so far I'm not willing to give up any of these features especially a limit on Season Passes.


Uh, the DirecTV DVRs have dual live buffers. I am using them right now to keep up on two baseball games.

You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Enjoy your SD because you are a Tivo snob. That is so far from my thought process, I cannot comprehend your arguments in the slightest.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I hate the deleted folder on the Tivo. When I delete something, I want it deleted. I was always deleting things from the deleted folder [...]


Different strokes, I guess. As long as the DVR considers a deleted show's disk space "available" for recording purposes, I couldn't care less if the show was moved to a "trash" folder.

No matter how careful folks are, especially in multiple viewer households, there's always a chance a show can be prematurely or mistakenly deleted. I'm puzzled this isn't a standard feature on all DVR's, not just DirecTV's. :scratchin


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Also, the Tivo guide never caught my fancy either. Never understood why people wanted to see an unbalanced schedule thing like the Tivo guide.


I like it fine... I just prefer DirecTV's.



tonyd79 said:


> Anyway, these are not differentiators. Gee, how do you base a commercial or ad on these? These are MINOR differences.


On DirecTV's website the other day, I had this little page whenever I was signed in similar to this one but with more pictures like the ones on the bottom, and I remember thinking whoop-de-freaking-doo at the majority of the things that were listed! However, there it was, and DirecTV felt I should care about them! 

As someone who works in advertising, it can be done, and if done well, could differientiate TiVo from the HR2x.



tonyd79 said:


> (For that matter, never understood guru guides or kid zone. I played with them both and found them to be very buggy, incomplete and full of stuff that didn't exist. Also, they never found the HD channels, only the SD ones. In short, while the concept was good, the execution rendered them pretty much unuseable.)


I can't say I've ever experimented with Guru Guides myself, but I have with TiVo KidZone, and I feel it's much stronger than any Parental features DirecTV has. As someone who doesn't have kids, the HR2x is fine, but if I had kids, I'd have a TiVo strictly for TiVo KidZone, and I could see myself selling all my friends with kids a TiVo over an HR2x because of KZ.



Steve said:


> tonyd79 said:
> 
> 
> > I hate the deleted folder on the Tivo. When I delete something, I want it deleted. I was always deleting things from the deleted folder.
> ...


Yep! I've certainly deleted enough shows on my HR2x by accident to justify me wanting a deleted folder.

~Alan


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I actually haven't had the "oops" problem recently, but I've definitely had it in the past. My only REAL need for an undelete folder has been literally an oops moment, so having even a one-hour period to reinstate the program would have been helpful in the past.

Since I use the red button (so that it asks if I'm sure), I really haven't had any problems, though. I specifically don't use the {DASH}-{DASH} trick since it's instant.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> I actually haven't had the "oops" problem recently, but I've definitely had it in the past. My only REAL need for an undelete folder has been literally an oops moment, so having even a one-hour period to reinstate the program would have been helpful in the past.
> 
> Since I use the red button (so that it asks if I'm sure), I really haven't had any problems, though. I specifically don't use the {DASH}-{DASH} trick since it's instant.


I've had that issue with the red button before (particularly with the HR23-700) so I _*TRY*_ to use the DELETE option in the Program Info. You would NEVER find me using {DASH}{DASH} function with recordings (though it works great with TV MAIL).

However, I've had other instances with the TiVo where I had something deleted, like say an episode of "American Idol" in which I've had a visitor or something say they saw the episode but missed (insert whatever season's contestant here) performance, so I was able to get it out of the deleted folder and play it for them. I've also had the instance in which I watched a show... let's say "Lost" since it's mysterious in which a clue was given that I might not have picked up on prior to either talking to somebody or reading about... which made me want to go back and check it out.

It can come in handy! 

~Alan


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

mccoady said:


> Sure I'm dying to have a HD dvr but so far I'm not willing to give up any of these features especially a limit on Season Passes.





tonyd79 said:


> You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Enjoy your SD because you are a Tivo snob. That is so far from my thought process, I cannot comprehend your arguments in the slightest.


If forced to choose between only being able to watch live HD content vs. only being able to record SD content, I'd choose the former. HD is a much bigger priority than DVR for me. I'm fine with the HR2xs though.

Funny how some who find the TiVos so superior don't make the switch to another source that allows for TiVo. I think the reality of TiVo's version of TiVo service vs. DirecTV's version of DVR service is too harsh for them. After all, a second TiVo in your service plan requires payment options of either $9.99/mo., $99/year, or $299 for Lifetime. DirecTV customers don't pay $9.99/mo. for their primary DVR. If when the pricing plan for the new DirecTV with TiVo is announced, we very well could find out how much people love their TiVo. RCN customers are being charged $20/mo. to lease TiVo Premieres. I don't think the ~ $1/box allotment TiVo used to take will be sufficient.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Alan Gordon said:


> As someone who works in advertising, it can be done, and if done well, could differientiate TiVo from the HR2x.
> 
> ~Alan


It's going to have to be TiVo. DirecTV might run some ads just to use the brand recognition of TiVo itself, but they aren't going to push features. They have their platform, and it's the most advanced one out there right now.



bidger said:


> If forced to choose between only being able to watch live HD content vs. only being able to record SD content, I'd choose the former. HD is a much bigger priority than DVR for me. I'm fine with the HR2xs though.
> 
> Funny how some who find the TiVos so superior don't make the switch to another source that allows for TiVo. I think the reality of TiVo's version of TiVo service vs. DirecTV's version of DVR service is too harsh for them. After all, a second TiVo in your service plan requires payment options of either $9.99/mo., $99/year, or $299 for Lifetime. DirecTV customers don't pay $9.99/mo. for their primary DVR. If when the pricing plan for the new DirecTV with TiVo is announced, we very well could find out how much people love their TiVo. RCN customers are being charged $20/mo. to lease TiVo Premieres. I don't think the ~ $1/box allotment TiVo used to take will be sufficient.


Wow. I would take an SD TiVo over no DVR with HD anyday. However, I would also take a cableco crap DVR with HD over SD TiVo anyday.

There are different pricing models out there. Your own CC TiVo is a $700 box, but there is no monthly fee. The HR10-250 was what $1000(?), but the same mirroring fee as any other box, and there are still some kicking around for locals, even though they can't "see" the satellite content anymore, because they are only $5/mo.

It depends on whether DirecTV sells the new one for $500 and the same monthly price, or a higher monthly price. My guess is the same $200 up front as an HR-24, but an extra $5-$10/mo, since that's the way both cable and satellite pricing models are moving.

There's also the fact that while a standalone TiVo has to make TiVo money, DirecTV likely loses money on the HR24's, largely because advanced DVRs cause people to order more lucrative TV packages, it allows them to offer DoD, and they help retention.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Bigg said:


> [...]There are different pricing models out there. Your own CC TiVo is a $700 box, but there is no monthly fee [...]


Is that because the $700 includes lifetime TV listings? If not, isn't there a monthly TiVo charge for the guide data?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bidger said:


> Funny how some who find the TiVos so superior don't make the switch to another source that allows for TiVo. I think the reality of TiVo's version of TiVo service vs. DirecTV's version of DVR service is too harsh for them. After all, a second TiVo in your service plan requires payment options of either $9.99/mo., $99/year, or $299 for Lifetime. DirecTV customers don't pay $9.99/mo. for their primary DVR. If when the pricing plan for the new DirecTV with TiVo is announced, we very well could find out how much people love their TiVo. RCN customers are being charged $20/mo. to lease TiVo Premieres. I don't think the ~ $1/box allotment TiVo used to take will be sufficient.


I agree with all of the above. Another reason for not switching to cable+TiVo is cable itself; lower PQ, outages, cable card issues. And the new TiVo Premiere is still (effectively) in beta.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Enjoy your SD because you are a Tivo snob. That is so far from my thought process, I cannot comprehend your arguments in the slightest.


That's why I rarely post in this thread (despite following it from the very beginning) because if you voice your opinion you might prefer some of Tivo's features you are labeled a Tivo snob which is ridiculous. Also just because certain features aren't important to you doesn't mean they're not to others, why is it here some want to tell you what you should like or prefer what happened to free choice.

Just for the record I never said Tivo's were superior to DTV dvrs or any other dvr only that I liked some of it's features which at this point the HRxx's don't have especially no limit on Season Passes.



tonyd79 said:


> Also, the Tivo guide never caught my fancy either. Never understood why people wanted to see an unbalanced schedule thing like the Tivo guide


Personally I hate grid guides but what I'm hoping for is the new HDTivo will allow a choice between a list/grid guide as the current sd Tivo's do.



Alan Gordon said:


> However, I've had other instances with the TiVo where I had something deleted, like say an episode of "American Idol" in which I've had a visitor or something say they saw the episode but missed (insert whatever season's contestant here) performance, so I was able to get it out of the deleted folder and play it for them. I've also had the instance in which I watched a show... let's say "Lost" since it's mysterious in which a clue was given that I might not have picked up on prior to either talking to somebody or reading about... which made me want to go back and check it out.
> 
> It can come in handy!
> 
> ~Alan


+1

Here's where I'm currently at I've waited this long on a new DTV HDTivo that I'm willing to wait a little longer but my patience is wearing thin. I'm getting my local channels OTA in HD so not entirely without HD just my sat channels but I definitely know what I'm missing. The thing that worries me most about the new HDTivo is not knowing what the monthly charge will be since I will also have the HD channel charge.

I'm on a fixed income so if/when the new Tivo comes out and it's too much of a premium charge heck I may end up with a HRxx yet although I wish DTV didn't make it so hard to lease a certain model, I would definitely want a HR24 if I went this route.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Syzygy said:


> I agree with all of the above. Another reason for not switching to cable+TiVo is cable itself; lower PQ, outages, cable card issues. And the new TiVo Premiere is still (effectively) in beta.


PQ and reliability depend. If you're in Texas or Florida and can get Fios, the reliability of that is much better, the PQ of Fios is better. Some cable is better, some just isn't. It depends whether they re-compress and how much.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mccoady said:


> The thing that worries me most about the new HDTivo is not knowing what the monthly charge will be since I will also have the HD channel charge.
> 
> I'm on a fixed income so if/when the new Tivo comes out and it's too much of a premium charge heck I may end up with a HRxx yet although I wish DTV didn't make it so hard to lease a certain model, I would definitely want a HR24 if I went this route.


The one thing we know is that it will cost more then the HR2x, it will have a "premium upcharge" for sure. Exactly how much and in what form we don't know.

FYI you can get an HR24 from Solidsignal so you can be sure to get that model. If you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why not get an HR24 now, enjoy all the HD and then when (if) the new DirecTivo comes out you can evaluate if you want to get it depending on cost and so forth. But in the meantime (and basically the past 3 years) you could have (and still can) enjoy tons of HD. That is why some say "cut your nose off in spite of yourself" because you can have your cake and eat it to if you plan to stick with DirecTV anyway. Enjoy HD now and perhaps enjoy Tivo as well if it ever ships. If it doesn't then you don't have to do anything but continue to enjoy HD.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Tivo Lovers...

I cannot believe I waited so long to go out and buy a stand alone Tivo and switch to cable. I got the service turned on this morning...

The picture quality is outstanding on my 55" LED LCD. Channel changing is much faster on the Tivo than on the HR20. Fox Soccer is part of my package, and my bill is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller. I will make up the cost of purchasing the box in 6 months. Then when the teaser rate is through, my bill will still be $10.00 a month cheaper than d*. 

I can't believe I waited so long to do this. The TV watching experience in the first hour, is superior to what I've been used to for the past 3 years. 

I got duped, TiVo rocks. I am much happier now. 

If you have been thinking about leaving D* to get TiVo, I can tell you that for me, so far, it is very worth it.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I've been considering doing the same thing. What cable system do you have? Are you using an SDV converter?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

SDV converter not required, or planned for; at least this year... according to the installer.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Tivo Lovers...
> 
> I cannot believe I waited so long to go out and buy a stand alone Tivo and switch to cable. I got the service turned on this morning...
> 
> ...


JayW, lets say you found out that your experience with cable was not good. You could easily cancel service with no fee and sell your TiVo. But it is much more difficult and costly to go the other way (cable to D*). You have to make a two year commitment just to try D*. You have to pay $199 or more up front for your DVR and you don't even own it if you leave. And you can't choose which model you get.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Tivo Lovers...
> 
> I cannot believe I waited so long to go out and buy a stand alone Tivo and switch to cable. I got the service turned on this morning...
> 
> ...


Glad for you. I can tell you for certain that my experience would be (and was) the exact opposite.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> The one thing we know is that it will cost more then the HR2x, it will have a "premium upcharge" for sure. Exactly how much and in what form we don't know.
> 
> FYI you can get an HR24 from Solidsignal so you can be sure to get that model. If you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why not get an HR24 now, enjoy all the HD and then when (if) the new DirecTivo comes out you can evaluate if you want to get it depending on cost and so forth. But in the meantime (and basically the past 3 years) you could have (and still can) enjoy tons of HD. That is why some say "cut your nose off in spite of yourself" because you can have your cake and eat it to if you plan to stick with DirecTV anyway. Enjoy HD now and perhaps enjoy Tivo as well if it ever ships. If it doesn't then you don't have to do anything but continue to enjoy HD.


A premium charge of $5 I can probably handle but anymore than that I have to consider other options this is why it would be nice to at least know what the pricing will be.

Yeah I plan on staying with DirecTV that's not an issue but what is an issue is whatever I end up getting has to last a few years this is why I need to get this right the first time I can't afford to buy a HR24 and then if I don't like it a HD DTivo. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

I've never upgraded any equipment since I first signed up (maybe 5 years ago) so was hoping DirecTV would discount any new HD receiver I might get, buying a HR24 from Solid Signal and still needing a dish upgrade might not work out in my favor.

Lest not forget I still favor a lot of the Tivo features and while I'm willing to compromise (and this isn't easy for me) on the list guide, Tivo DLB's, Deleted Folder (this is a tough one though) I'm not willing SO FAR to give up unlimited Season Passes of which I have about 80.

Scott if DTV added Unlimited Season Passes I would probably be all over a HR24 but don't think I don't understand and appreciate your reasoning. I've certainly become more disillusioned the longer this Tivo thing has drawn out...


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

mccoady said:


> A premium charge of $5 I can probably handle but anymore than that I have to consider other options this is why it would be nice to at least know what the pricing will be.
> 
> Yeah I plan on staying with DirecTV that's not an issue but what is an issue is whatever I end up getting has to last a few years this is why I need to get this right the first time I can't afford to buy a HR24 and then if I don't like it a HD DTivo. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
> 
> ...


80?!? You'd need a monster hard drive to house all that crap. What are you watching? A big family who is sharing one TV could potentially need a couple dozen, but 80???


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Bigg said:


> 80?!? You'd need a monster hard drive to house all that crap. What are you watching? A big family who is sharing one TV could potentially need a couple dozen, but 80???


If I didn't have a 50 Series Link limit, I could make it to 80 easily.

~Alan


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess at this point my number one question is IF the TiVo product ever sees the light of day. I just don't know if it will. 

My number two question is going to be the service charge. There is still some question as to how high it will be. I mean, at $6/month it might be palatable even if that's above and beyond any mirroring fees. But at $25/month it's not likely to get takers. 

And then you have to ask yourself, how is TiVo going to make any money if the service charge is $6/month.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

mccoady said:


> That's why I rarely post in this thread (despite following it from the very beginning) because if you voice your opinion you might prefer some of Tivo's features you are labeled a Tivo snob which is ridiculous.


No, I labelled you a Tivo snob not because you like certain features but because you are sticking with SD because the HD is not Tivo. That is being a Tivo snob.



mccoady said:


> Also just because certain features aren't important to you doesn't mean they're not to others, why is it here some want to tell you what you should like or prefer what happened to free choice.


Exactly. And that is why I tell you what means nothing to me from Tivo. Tivo was my first DVR. I had the Sony DirecTivo then an HR10 then a Series 3 for Comcast. I chose to dump Tivo when I went to Fios. Because the Tivo did nothing for me that I could not get from another source. I am not going to pick a DVR based upon its guide format if the guide data works. I personally do not care about suggestions or other items. Yet Tivo fans (yourself included) keep parading them out like they are the best thing ever.



 mccoady said:


> Just for the record I never said Tivo's were superior to DTV dvrs or any other dvr only that I liked some of it's features which at this point the HRxx's don't have especially no limit on Season Passes.


So get a second DVR. Not only do you get another 50 passes of programs that you can watch on any other box in the network but you get another set of tuners. If you have SWM, all it costs in infrastructure is a simple cable splitter.

If that many season passes are that important to you, there are ways to make it work. And do it in HD. For me, 250 season passes would be worthless if they are all SD.



mccoady said:


> Personally I hate grid guides but what I'm hoping for is the new HDTivo will allow a choice between a list/grid guide as the current sd Tivo's do.


I will never understand hating a grid guide. Just sayin.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> And then you have to ask yourself, how is TiVo going to make any money if the service charge is $6/month.


The Comcast fee is $3 a month (per household)...

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> I *personally* do not care about suggestions or other items. Yet Tivo fans (yourself included) keep parading them out like they are the best thing ever.


To TiVo fans (him included), they may be the best thing ever.



tonyd79 said:


> So get a second DVR. Not only do you get another 50 passes of programs that you can watch on any other box in the network but you get another set of tuners. If you have SWM, all it costs in infrastructure is a simple cable splitter.
> 
> If that many season passes are that important to you, there are ways to make it work.




~Alan


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll take your word on that. But I do know that the size of the fee was a sticking point between DIRECTV and TiVo in the past, and that there have been persistent rumors of "significantly higher" fees than the previous arrangement. Now, that could mean 20% higher or 2000% higher. We don't know. 

You know, at one point a significant part of the TiVo subscriber base was through DIRECTV. You'd think, if TiVo wanted to recapture that... that they'd say SOMETHING.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> The Comcast fee is $3 a month (per household)...
> 
> ~Alan


Not a lot of money for those who want it (and believe me, if Comcast had Tivo locally, I would have jumped on it when I was a Comcast customer; the Comcast DVR in my area is the worst POS ever).

It all comes down to how much it costs Tivo to make the software. On the standalones, they deal with hardware and have to put that cost into their equations. For this it is software.

But with the standalone (and maybe Comcast?) they get advertising revenue. Wonder how that will work out with DirecTV.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You know, at one point a significant part of the TiVo subscriber base was through DIRECTV. You'd think, if TiVo wanted to recapture that... that they'd say SOMETHING.


That is an interesting point. If DirecTV subs mean a lot to Tivo (which they used to), why are they being so quiet about it all and why are they not making this happen sooner?

Perhaps because they will not make a ton of money on this? Maybe they are projecting fewer customers than they thought originally or they are not seeing that much profit based upon what they feel they can charge?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> But with the standalone (and maybe Comcast?) they get advertising revenue. Wonder how that will work out with DirecTV.


From the pictures I've seen, the ComcasTiVo appears to have no more advertising than the older DirecTiVo's.

You still get the occasional advertising message in Showcases on DirecTiVos, advertising not on the HR2x (to my knowledge), which makes me believe they probably got the revenue for the advertising on the older units... since it appears to be a TiVo deal and not a DirecTV one.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll take your word on that. But I do know that the size of the fee was a sticking point between DIRECTV and TiVo in the past, and that there have been persistent rumors of "significantly higher" fees than the previous arrangement. Now, that could mean 20% higher or 2000% higher. We don't know.


The problem is that we don't know how much of the DVR fee historically went to TiVo. Depending on their percentage of the DVR fee, an extra $3 would be a significantly higher fee...

~Alan


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Bigg said:


> 80?!? You'd need a monster hard drive to house all that crap. What are you watching? A big family who is sharing one TV could potentially need a couple dozen, but 80???


Between my fiance and I we have probably 75-85 series links spread out over 3 HR2x DVRs right now.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> JayW, lets say you found out that your experience with cable was not good. You could easily cancel service with no fee and sell your TiVo. But it is much more difficult and costly to go the other way (cable to D*). You have to make a two year commitment just to try D*. You have to pay $199 or more up front for your DVR and you don't even own it if you leave. And you can't choose which model you get.


I suppose it would be costly, just to 'try' D*. However, I have been with D* for 11 years.

Is your point, that it would be costly for those of you who are in the middle of a commitment to D* to try cable?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> The problem is that we don't know how much of the DVR fee historically went to TiVo. Depending on their percentage of the DVR fee, an extra $3 would be a significantly higher fee...
> 
> ~Alan


Precisely. It could be, as I said an extra 2000% that goes to them. We don't know.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Bigg said:


> 80?!? You'd need a monster hard drive to house all that crap. What are you watching? A big family who is sharing one TV could potentially need a couple dozen, but 80???


I believe my hard drive is about 140gb but it's ALL mine I don't share it with anybody and yes some of it might be called crap.(lol)



tonyd79 said:


> No, I labelled you a Tivo snob not because you like certain features but because you are sticking with SD because the HD is not Tivo. That is being a Tivo snob.


Well I guess I'm a Tivo snob then but it doesn't make sense to me because it's still about which features you prefer not about SD vs HD, if the HRxx was SD and I liked it's features better than a Tivo HD I would go with the former. To me what it comes down to is which gives the best overall dvr experience in how I personally use that dvr not how you or anyone else would use it because we all have different priorities that's all.



tonyd79 said:


> So get a second DVR. Not only do you get another 50 passes of programs that you can watch on any other box in the network but you get another set of tuners. If you have SWM, all it costs in infrastructure is a simple cable splitter.


This seems to be the standard reply when some needs more than 50 Season Passes but this just isn't a solution for everyone some can't throw money around. I'm still using the original dish they installed 5 years ago.



tonyd79 said:


> And do it in HD. For me, 250 season passes would be worthless if they are all SD.


We just disagree but that's fine I'm all for HD (and get my locals in HD) but not at the expense of everything else.

Who knows I may end up with a HR24 yet!


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> I suppose it would be costly, just to 'try' D*. However, I have been with D* for 11 years.
> 
> Is your point, that it would be costly for those of you who are in the middle of a commitment to D* to try cable?


My point is that a cable subscriber can not switch to D* without making a 2 year commitment and paying up front for a DVR that you must return. If you are a D* subscriber, you can try cable with no commitment and little financial loss.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mccoady said:


> Well I guess I'm a Tivo snob then but it doesn't make sense to me because it's still about which features you prefer not about SD vs HD, if the HRxx was SD and I liked it's features better than a Tivo HD I would go with the former. To me what it comes down to is which gives the best overall dvr experience in how I personally use that dvr not how you or anyone else would use it because we all have different priorities that's all.


I would think that in this case HD is a feature and you must rate HD lower on your feature scale than some of the other features of TiVo .. But I do see that you get HD OTA (HR10-250?) .. So you're part way in .. and if that suits your fancy, then great!


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I would think that in this case HD is a feature and you must rate HD lower on your feature scale than some of the other features of TiVo .. But I do see that you get HD OTA (HR10-250?) .. So you're part way in .. and if that suits your fancy, then great!


Well I guess if you put it that way then yes I must rate HD lower on the feature scale it's still important to me but I suppose that's hard to believe since I don't have a HD dvr. I should have clarified I only have a SD DTivo but I have an OTA antenna running directly to my big screen to get local HD channels but I also get my locals through DTV (in SD) because all my other tvs don't have access to the OTA antenna.

What's happened is I kind of caught up in waiting for the new HD Tivo and kept thinking it would be released for the last what 2 or 3 years. Every now and then I would think about trying a HRxx but then I'd read a thread about some bug that it had and it was something so simple I couldn't believe D* never fixed it. For example there is a thread now complaining some HRxx's are slow in changing channels or inputting channel numbers something that shouldn't be an issue.

I just keep reading these type of threads here and with my DTivo not having these type of issues it's hard to take a chance because if it doesn't work as least as good my DTivo I know I won't be happy, but still stuck with it.

And then there's the features that I would have to give up if switching to a HRxx (HR24) like a Deleted Folder or no limit on Season Passes which would require me having two receivers. I'm having to compromise so much I wish DTV would consider adding some of these things.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

JBernardK said:


> My point is that a cable subscriber can not switch to D* without making a 2 year commitment and paying up front for a DVR that you must return. If you are a D* subscriber, you can try cable with no commitment and little financial loss.


They used to give one HR24 and H24 for free on a new sub, but now they are charging $100 I think.

If you have 75 SP's, wouldn't you fill the drive up in like 2 days? MCE/Sage would the only way I could see to make that practical, and at that point, you're not watching it, you're building a VOD library. At the point that you have 5TB+ (~1000 hours), you basically have your own private VOD headend.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

mccoady said:


> Well I guess if you put it that way then yes I must rate HD lower on the feature scale it's still important to me but I suppose that's hard to believe since I don't have a HD dvr. I should have clarified I only have a SD DTivo but I have an OTA antenna running directly to my big screen to get local HD channels but I also get my locals through DTV (in SD) because all my other tvs don't have access to the OTA antenna.
> 
> What's happened is I kind of caught up in waiting for the new HD Tivo and kept thinking it would be released for the last what 2 or 3 years. Every now and then I would think about trying a HRxx but then I'd read a thread about some bug that it had and it was something so simple I couldn't believe D* never fixed it. For example there is a thread now complaining some HRxx's are slow in changing channels or inputting channel numbers something that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> ...


If you're that dedicated to a different UI look and some really minor features (TiVo as opposed the HR24) You could at least pick up an HR10-250 and have HD locals.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> You seem to be the only person who speak so found of your TiVo experience in that thread, I could be wrong, if so I apologize for getting off the topic.


I wanted to reply to this, but I didn't want to clutter up the D12 thread anymore than it already appears (at least to a TiVo and Toyota fan anyway)

YES! My TiVo experience has been great!

Earlier this decade, I considered switching to Dish Network due to the promise of 50 HD channels via the SuperDISH, the possibility of getting SD-LIL sooner than DirecTV (which would have turned into a reality), and to get away from Pegasus who was the DirecTV provider in my area, and the reason why I laugh whenever someone complains about DirecTV customer service.

The first thing I did after this decision was getting a DirecTiVo. I had previously mocked DVRs, but I LOVED being able to just set up a Season Pass and forget it, as well as always having something to watch (Suggestions), and being able to do (and save) searches on my favorite actors/actresses.... so much so that I went out and bought another one for another room, and as soon as the HR10-250 went down to a point where I could justify the expense, I got one of them as well.

I was not happy with the decision to move away from TiVo and go with their own DVRs, but I wasn't going to let the HR2x stop me from getting HD... and as a techno-geek, I was at least looking forward to playing with the new units (heck, I even have some old PMs saved on TiVo Community Forum where I discussed the OLD HMC concept with Earl), so in 2006(?), I got an HR20-100 which promptly broke and was replaced with an HR20-700.

Moving from the TiVo to the HR2x was both fun for the techno-geek in me, and not so fun for the previous TiVo user part of me. Friendly posters have tried and help me with this over the years, in the form of telling me "workarounds".... which I have mostly ignored except for one poster who recommended that anytime I see the record light on my HR2x on, I should turn my TV on, and then proceed looking down to the floor, turn my HR2x on, hit the pause button, then the List button, and then look only at the Playlist part of my screen without paying attention to the PiL, pick what I want to watch, and then tell it to play. I do this all the time! 

That being said, there were a few features the HR2x had that I liked over the TiVo, and over the years, the number of complaints I have about the HR2x has gotten considerably smaller. I posted a list in the previous TiVo thread about my complaints with the HR2x, and all I can say is that list is CONSIDERABLY smaller than what my list looked like when I first got my HR2x, which is why I believe DirecTV CAN make any new DirecTiVo a non-issue for me... particularly the longer TiVo takes.

~Alan


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mccoady said:


> Well I guess if you put it that way then yes I must rate HD lower on the feature scale it's still important to me but I suppose that's hard to believe since I don't have a HD dvr. I should have clarified I only have a SD DTivo but I have an OTA antenna running directly to my big screen to get local HD channels but I also get my locals through DTV (in SD) because all my other tvs don't have access to the OTA antenna.
> 
> What's happened is I kind of caught up in waiting for the new HD Tivo and kept thinking it would be released for the last what 2 or 3 years. Every now and then I would think about trying a HRxx but then I'd read a thread about some bug that it had and it was something so simple I couldn't believe D* never fixed it. For example there is a thread now complaining some HRxx's are slow in changing channels or inputting channel numbers something that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> ...


All I can say is that I would rather have HD and no DVR at all then be stuck with just SD. No WAY can we live without HD. I first got HD 8 years ago when there were only 2 HD channels and the networks did maybe 2-3 hours *a week* in HD.

HD trumps any and all features of a receiver, even if it meant no DVR at all. It's that much of a game changer.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Bigg said:


> If you're that dedicated to a different UI look and some really minor features (TiVo as opposed the HR24) You could at least pick up an HR10-250 and have HD locals.


I wouldn't say I'm necessarily dedicated to a different UI look although I like Tivo's but I'm sure the HRxx UI is fine too just different than what I'm used to, nor would I consider unlimited Season Passes a minor feature at least for my usage.

I already get my locals in HD just can't record them but I hate to get a band-aid like the HR10-250 just for that just as soon wait for the HDTivo or go ahead with a HR24.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

mccoady said:


> I wouldn't say I'm necessarily dedicated to a different UI look although I like Tivo's but I'm sure the HRxx UI is fine too just different than what I'm used to, nor would I consider unlimited Season Passes a minor feature at least for my usage.
> 
> I already get my locals in HD just can't record them but I hate to get a band-aid like the HR10-250 just for that just as soon wait for the HDTivo or go ahead with a HR24.


Go with the HR24. If you're that dead set on TiVo though, or you want a TiVo for your locals, and an HR24 for nationals, the HR10's are like $25 on eBay.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Actually, at $25 and $5/mo, those things are a great deal for DirecTV subs who want an OTA TiVo really, really cheap and don't have a SWiMLine.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I wanted to reply to this, but I didn't want to clutter up the D12 thread anymore than it already appears (at least to a TiVo and Toyota fan anyway)
> 
> YES! My TiVo experience has been great!
> 
> ...


I really don't care which DVR you like and why, it was a joke I made in the other thread.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> I really don't care which DVR you like and why, it was a joke I made in the other thread.


OK then... apparently I didn't get the joke!  

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> All I can say is that I would rather have HD and no DVR at all then be stuck with just SD. No WAY can we live without HD. I first got HD 8 years ago when there were only 2 HD channels and the networks did maybe 2-3 hours *a week* in HD.


A DVR trumps HD for me. HD is great, but not being tethered to a schedule is fantastic!

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> A DVR trumps HD for me. HD is great, but not being tethered to a schedule is fantastic!
> 
> ~Alan


Reverse here...if there's no HD to view....recording SD on a DVR doesn't make it look better.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

JBernardK said:


> JayW, lets say you found out that your experience with cable was not good. You could easily cancel service with no fee and sell your TiVo. But it is much more difficult and costly to go the other way (cable to D*). You have to make a two year commitment just to try D*. You have to pay $199 or more up front for your DVR and you don't even own it if you leave. And you can't choose which model you get.


Not sure what cable company you deal with but the one here has a minimum of a 1 year commitment, 2 years if you want better deals, each DVR is fairly expensive to rent also, lot higher then Directv's


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> A DVR trumps HD for me. HD is great, but not being tethered to a schedule is fantastic!
> 
> ~Alan


I've had a DVR since the very first 30 hour Tivo unit 10 yrs ago. So I know all about DVR. But if it's not HD then what's the point? I'm *not* going to watch it in SD if HD is there, DVR or not. SD is painful and no DVR function will ever trump being able to watch shows in glorious HD.

Now I am a bit of a hypocrite in that I don't even have any pay TV right now and watch a few shows via Hulu and Netflix (not HD) but I'm in money saving mode due to my situation. But I had HD for years with no DVR because I refused to pay hundreds for a dead end receiver like the HR10-250 and waited for the first HR20 to hit the street. So for years we were a "slave" to the networks again but well worth it for HD.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Reverse here...if there's no HD to view....recording SD on a DVR doesn't make it look better.


Nope! However, SD beats nothing at all... 

It's rarely possible for me to watch something live, so that's why a DVR rates higher for me.



bonscott87 said:


> Now I am a bit of a hypocrite in that I don't even have any pay TV right now and watch a few shows via Hulu and Netflix (not HD) but I'm in money saving mode due to my situation.


I still watch some shows in SD... even some where HD is available... it's painful, but due to circumstances, that's the way it is. However, I went years with a Hughes HTL-HD until the HR10-250 went down in price, so I've certainly gone the HD trumps DVR way.

Thankfully, I think we've reached the point where I'll never have to put one's priority ahead of the other. 

~Alan


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Alan Gordon said:


> A DVR trumps HD for me. HD is great, but not being tethered to a schedule is fantastic!
> 
> ~Alan


But what if the line is blurred a bit: 80gb cableco DVR with HD or SD TiVo? I'd do the crap HD dvr myself.



wingrider01 said:


> Not sure what cable company you deal with but the one here has a minimum of a 1 year commitment, 2 years if you want better deals, each DVR is fairly expensive to rent also, lot higher then Directv's


I've never heard of a cable company doing a contract. The closest thing Comcast has done was do require 3 months of service before getting the rebate for our cable modem back in '03 (it was like $50).



Alan Gordon said:


> Nope! However, SD beats nothing at all...
> 
> It's rarely possible for me to watch something live, so that's why a DVR rates higher for me.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's good that we don't have to choose anymore. But there are also some shows/channels that I don't think are worth it in HD. Like Stewart/Colbert/Olberman/Maddow, I don't even watch them, just listen... no point in HD really. OTOH, if I'm actually watching the show, HD is a big deal...


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Bigg said:


> But what if the line is blurred a bit: 80gb cableco DVR with HD or SD TiVo? I'd do the crap HD dvr myself.


That would depend on the cableco DVR.

While I've made no stranger to the fact that I prefer the TiVo experience over the HR2x experience, I actually (overall) like the HR2x just fine, which is why there was never a choice between keeping my HR10-250 and being stuck with mostly SD programming.

I've seen instances of other DVRs though, where that might be more of a conundrum.

~Alan


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I was once a major TiVo enthusiast, and still have a Series3 for TiVo Desktop. 

Have series duplicated from the HR2x and use TiVo Desktop to transfer recordings to the laptop for all travel. Been running this way for a few years. Also provides a good backup if the satellite ever goes out.

Well, a few months ago, we lost satellite service during a blizzard for a complete evening, when several recordings were scheduled, and I actually needed to use the TiVo box to watch some recordings a few days later.

Man, was I surprised at how comfortable I've gotten with the HR2x. The TiVo seemed so foreign and clumsy to use. Just one person's opinion, but several functions just seemed so much harder to get done. Even the guide seemed weird, and I used to love the TiVo guide.

I must admit though, that this was after having an HR24 for awhile and instantaneous screens.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Man, was I surprised at how comfortable I've gotten with the HR2x. The TiVo seemed so foreign and clumsy to use. Just one person's opinion, but several functions just seemed so much harder to get done.


Since I use both products on a daily basis, I've never experienced that feeling.

I have however been in a situation where I was using one unit and forgot that a feature/function of the other unit was not available on this unit. 

~Alan


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> Since I use both products on a daily basis, I've never experienced that feeling.


I hadn't actually needed to use the TiVo box for a long time, and I just remember that night having to re-think how to do certain things, and thinking that the HR2x was easier. I don't remember the exact functions right now.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> I hadn't actually needed to use the TiVo box for a long time, and I just remember that night having to re-think how to do certain things, and thinking that the HR2x was easier. I don't remember the exact functions right now.


I'm blanking on examples right now, but I've found several things to be easier on one machine, and several to be easier than the other, and most things a wash. 

~Alan


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Bigg said:


> I've never heard of a cable company doing a contract. The closest thing Comcast has done was do require 3 months of service before getting the rebate for our cable modem back in '03 (it was like $50).


It's actually quite common today, especially if Uverse or FIOS is also available in the area. Around here they all do it...Charter, Comcast and Time Warner. 1 to 2 yr commitments to get the "triple play" packages. Some do offer no commitment at much higher rates or don't allow double/triple play packages if you don't commit.

I know that's not the case everywhere and probably less so where the cable company has no land based competition, but in Uverse and FIOS markets cable is going the way of commitments. Right now of all my options (Charter, Dish, DirecTV and Uverse) only Uverse requires no commitment.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Very interesting news I found today. Looks like Cox cable is going with Cisco to build their new DVRs including "whole home" capability. Has Cox finally given up on Tivo?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/co...isco-set-tops-2010-05-10?reflink=MW_news_stmp

http://www.articlesbase.com/network...cox-to-launch-cisco-wholehome-dvr-850153.html

That last link also indicates that Time Warner is going with Cisco as well.

Quotes from the last article:


> The boxes also support tru2way, 1-GHz tuning, an MPEG-4 (H.264) codec and optional Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA) support.
> 
> In addition to tru2way and MoCA, Cisco's new set-top portfolio also support DLNA and DTCP-IP media-sharing standards.


Interesting that it's MoCA based like DirecTV's MRV solution.
Also that it will support DLNA which is something that Tivo has refused to support. I got to wonder if Tivo's refusal to use industry standards like DLNA has further hurt them and forced providers to go a different direction?

DirecTV would certainly want a new Tivo box to support their version of MoCA but probably DLNA as well. Wonder if this is part of the hold up? If Tivo couldn't get it done for Cox (been what...3 yrs since that announcement?) how does that bode for Tivo now with DirecTV?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> A DVR trumps HD for me. HD is great, but not being tethered to a schedule is fantastic!
> 
> ~Alan


Agreed. If I had to give up one, I'd dump HD. I'd never get rid of my DVR, however.

Between hotel room viewing and the SD display in my home office, I watch a lot of SD anyway.

There's a few things I have to watch in HD (i.e. Lost), but most things I'll watch wherever I am and in whatever resolution is available.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Very interesting news I found today. Looks like Cox cable is going with Cisco to build their new DVRs including "whole home" capability. Has Cox finally given up on Tivo?
> 
> That last link also indicates that Time Warner is going with Cisco as well.


Cox and Time Warner have, for the most part, always been using SA/Cisco gear. It's not really any surprise that Cisco will be supplying equipment to either company in the future.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Also that it will support DLNA which is something that Tivo has refused to support. I got to wonder if Tivo's refusal to use industry standards like DLNA has further hurt them and forced providers to go a different direction?


I seriously doubt DLNA has hurt them a single bit... nor do I believe that has anything to do with the DirecTV holdup.

As for the Cox announcement, it's speaking about a multiroom DVR, so it's possible that TiVo may still come to their older stand-alone models.

As for Cox DVRs though....

~Alan


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> It's actually quite common today, especially if Uverse or FIOS is also available in the area. Around here they all do it...Charter, Comcast and Time Warner. 1 to 2 yr commitments to get the "triple play" packages. Some do offer no commitment at much higher rates or don't allow double/triple play packages if you don't commit.
> 
> I know that's not the case everywhere and probably less so where the cable company has no land based competition, but in Uverse and FIOS markets cable is going the way of commitments. Right now of all my options (Charter, Dish, DirecTV and Uverse) only Uverse requires no commitment.


Wow, I didn't know that. I guess in my area, their service is so bad, no one would sign a contract so they don't bother. That and most people don't know about Dish EA, which is the only other way to get around the trees. I doubt even U-Verse, which is coming slowly crossbox by crossbox and VRAD by VRAD will cause Comcast to actually upgrade their system to handle HD.

What's their logic? They don't install anything, because there's nothing for cable to install, unlike U-Verse, Fios, or DBS.


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## dcmurrin (May 10, 2009)

Just curious if anyone has seen the Tivo Test channels up in the 580 range?

Today I have on channel 582 an "Upcoming: Tivo Test 1" program. There is a Test 1 and Test 2 running at various times throughout the day. Is this for pre-existing Tivo boxes? I won't jump to conclusions that this may be for something new.

Thanks.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dcmurrin said:


> Just curious if anyone has seen the Tivo Test channels up in the 580 range?
> 
> Today I have on channel 582 an "Upcoming: Tivo Test 1" program. There is a Test 1 and Test 2 running at various times throughout the day. Is this for pre-existing Tivo boxes? I won't jump to conclusions that this may be for something new.
> 
> Thanks.


582 has been the channel where the Tivo Showcases get recorded from in the overnight hours. Been that way for...ummmm....8 years or so now.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

A judge ruled that the TiVo-Dish trial has to be a do-over.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> A judge ruled that the TiVo-Dish trial has to be a do-over.


TiVo had never left the court, while the questions asked by the en banc panel point to the good likelihood of a do-over, there is not "a judge" who has made such a decision yet. Whatever the decision is, it will be made by 11 judges, not one judge.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Wow, at this rate, the sons and daughters of all the lawyers involved will be signing the final settlement paperwork.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> Wow, I didn't know that. I guess in my area, their service is so bad, no one would sign a contract so they don't bother. That and most people don't know about Dish EA, which is the only other way to get around the trees. I doubt even U-Verse, which is coming slowly crossbox by crossbox and VRAD by VRAD will cause Comcast to actually upgrade their system to handle HD.
> 
> What's their logic? They don't install anything, because there's nothing for cable to install, unlike U-Verse, Fios, or DBS.


And even now in Tampa as a response Fios dropped their contracts. You can sign up with a 1 year price guarantee or a 1 year contract with 2 year price guarantee iirc. Brighthouse Cable formerly Time Warner has been pushing the no contract ads for months now so Verizon responded.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Any body else sign up for the TiVo updates via their website a year & a half ago that's still waiting for an update?


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

Brennok said:


> And even now in Tampa as a response Fios dropped their contracts. You can sign up with a 1 year price guarantee or a 1 year contract with 2 year price guarantee iirc. Brighthouse Cable formerly Time Warner has been pushing the no contract ads for months now so Verizon responded.


Interesting. Unless Brighthouse did some serious trickery, however, Fios will have more bandwidth, so it's a pretty safe bet to sign a contract with, whereas a cable company isn't. I understand why the satellite companies need contracts, with the magnitude of installs, but cable companies shouldn't ever need one, since the customer walks into the office, gets some boxes, goes home and plugs them in, and they work. Even if they have to switch traps, its still not a big deal. If they're actually going to the house and "installing" the service, that's the cableco's stupidity.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

joshjr said:


> Any body else sign up for the TiVo updates via their website a year & a half ago that's still waiting for an update?


Yup, nary an update here either.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Interesting. Unless Brighthouse did some serious trickery, however, Fios will have more bandwidth, so it's a pretty safe bet to sign a contract with, whereas a cable company isn't. I understand why the satellite companies need contracts, with the magnitude of installs, but cable companies shouldn't ever need one, since the customer walks into the office, gets some boxes, goes home and plugs them in, and they work. Even if they have to switch traps, its still not a big deal. If they're actually going to the house and "installing" the service, that's the cableco's stupidity.


Contracts for cable companies have nothing to do with installs. It's all about locking the customer in for X number of years for guaranteed subs and income. No different then the cell phone companies. They do even less then cable companies yet they all have 2 yr commitments. Charter started doing contracts around here about a month after Uverse moved in and everyone started switching to Uverse and dumping Charter. Thus Charter responded not by competing and adding new HD channels to their very sad HD lineup or competing on price and speed of their Internet service. No, they responded by snagging people into 2 yr contracts giving them a few bucks off a month for a few months.

It's nothing more then to lock you in as a sub and get your money. Nothing more then that.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> No different then the cell phone companies. They do even less then cable companies yet they all have 2 yr commitments.


Cell phone companies give you a large subsidy on your cell phone in exchange for a 1- (only from Verizon) or 2-year contract. If you pay full price, there is no contract.


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## chscott (Apr 14, 2008)

joshjr said:


> Any body else sign up for the TiVo updates via their website a year & a half ago that's still waiting for an update?


You know, I am always very surprised that DirecTV and TiVo do not drop progress hints to the public. Other companies like Apple, HTC and Microsoft love to put product teasers out to keep the excitement going while a new product is in development. I picture here, a YouTube clip there...

Honestly (Deep Sigh)...it has been so long now, I am barely excited about a possible new DirecTiVo being released.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

chscott said:


> You know, I am always very surprised that DirecTV and TiVo do not drop progress hints to the public. Other companies like Apple, HTC and Microsoft love to put product teasers out to keep the excitement going while a new product is in development. I picture here, a YouTube clip there...
> 
> Honestly (Deep Sigh)...it has been so long now, I am barely excited about a possible new DirecTiVo being released.


This has been discussed numerous times. Tivo has put out hints before for other products and their deadlines have been wildly inaccurate (ComcasTivo). DirecTV has a pretty established policy of not making too many forward-looking statements. This is a sound policy in regards to SEC regulations and is practiced by most successful companies.


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## chscott (Apr 14, 2008)

gregjones said:


> This has been discussed numerous times. Tivo has put out hints before for other products and their deadlines have been wildly inaccurate (ComcasTivo). DirecTV has a pretty established policy of not making too many forward-looking statements. This is a sound policy in regards to SEC regulations and is practiced by most successful companies.


The technology industry is full of succesful companies making "forward-looking statements". Look at Google! I do not believe that if DirecTV gave hints, leaked pictures or videos of it supposed upcoming DVR it would invite investigation due to SEC violations. Have you ever looked at engadget.com?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

chscott said:


> You know, I am always very surprised that DirecTV and TiVo do not drop progress hints to the public. Other companies like Apple, HTC and Microsoft love to put product teasers out to keep the excitement going while a new product is in development. I picture here, a YouTube clip there...
> 
> Honestly (Deep Sigh)...it has been so long now, I am barely excited about a possible new DirecTiVo being released.


If TiVo is what your heart desires... At what point do you finally give up hope and switch to a Stand Alone TiVo?

I think people should start operating on the assumption that there will not be a DirecTivo again.

TiVo is spending all their resources trying to get their new Premiere Box up to speed.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

chscott said:


> The technology industry is full of succesful companies making "forward-looking statements". Look at Google! I do not believe that if DirecTV gave hints, leaked pictures or videos of it supposed upcoming DVR it would invite investigation due to SEC violations. Have you ever looked at engadget.com?


Maybe someone will leave a DirecTivo at a bar somewhere.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Maybe someone will leave a DirecTivo at a bar somewhere.


Gee... that guy would have some 'splaining to do! 

"Well, you see boss, I had the DirecTiVo in my coat pocket, and I plum forgot it was there when I went into the bar, and only noticed it after I spilled some beer on my coat, and then I forgot to put it back in my pocket!" 

*IN ALL SERIOUSNESS THOUGH*​
Now that a new NR for the HR23-700 has been released, I would like to take a minute to comment on a couple of complaints I've made about the HR2x line and the HR23-700.

*1.* I've been quite vocal on this thread as well as another that my HR23-700 is *SLOW*. I'm PROUD to say that my HR23-700 is CONSIDERABLY faster with this firmware update than it was previously. It's still slower than I'd like it to be, and I still think my box might have an issue, which makes it even slower, but even with that, I do feel the HR23-700 has been sped up enough to make it useable... a word I would not have used in conjunction with the HR23-700 earlier this year.

*2.* While everybody's heard me complain about the Series Link limit, as well as the lack of an ability to save Searches, one major complaint I've mentioned FREQUENTLY for several years now is the lack of Guest Stars in the Cast & Crew section... something that Stand-Alone TiVos have had for years. THANKFULLY, this complaint is no longer valid as DirecTV has added this as well.

I've been quite vocal in this thread about my opinions... both what I consider to be good and bad regarding the HR2x and TiVo, and though I'm often tougher on the HR2x, I always try to be fair, and so I felt it only fair to post about these new developments.

~Alan


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Sorry, but you're saying this all wrong... I know you think it's buggy software, but it's NOT. Do some people have issues, yes, but most of the things you think are wrong with the HRs are not wrong...


See my *latest list* of 81 pure bugs - from which design deficiencies are omitted so that fanboys won't pretend not to see the bugs. (A separate post, with 75 design deficiencies, follows the bug list.)


Doug Brott said:


> If DIRECTV really had "woefully buggy" software, then the uptake would not be as high as it has been and we'd certainly see the pains present in numerous threads here. While there are sometimes issues, all in all the "this thing is crappy" posts are fairly minimal these days...


I think the reason "this thing is crappy" posts have slowed to a trickle is that DirecTV has outlasted us complainers. There seems to be no point in complaining, since the bug situation never gets better. Instead it gets steadily worse. (I think you two, like some others, are blinded by love. )


Alan Gordon said:


> ... Feature preferences and GUI complaints aside, never any serious issues (other than an eSATA hard drive going bad), and any minor issues could be forgiven due to the fact that I'm MOST usually on a CE during those years, and they are eventually straightened out...


Most *CE issues* (which are sometimes huge problems) are indeed straightened out before general release. But there are plenty of long-standing NR bugs that never seem to get addressed.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Most *CE issues* (which are sometimes huge problems) are indeed straightened out before general release. But there are plenty of long-standing NR bugs that never seem to get addressed.


I stand by what I said... I haven't had *ANY* serious issues with my HR20-700/HR23-700***.

*** My first HR2x was an HR20-100 that lasted a week.

~Alan


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I stand by what I said... I haven't had *ANY* serious issues with my HR20-700/HR23-700***.
> 
> *** My first HR2x was an HR20-100 that lasted a week.
> 
> ~Alan


Well, we get to agree on something.

I could easily compile a list of "bugs" that was very long for Tivo yet somehow some people just ASSUME that Tivo is going to solve all their problems.

I don't think we often give enough credit to the developers of these things we used everyday, whether they be Tivo, DirecTV, Dish, Microsoft, Motorola, whoever. The interactions, the details, the amount of data they are pushing is extraordinary. Now put the technically complex problem in the hands of everyone from 95 year old Grandmas to 7 year old sticky handed kids to middle aged techo geeks (like most of us) with the myriad of things that they can attempt to do with all the variations in environment.

My head hurts thinking about it.

Yet we tend to boil it down to "religious wars" over Tivo or DirecTV instead of just enjoying what we have and using the items to do what we want to do....watch TV.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Drink the kool aid...

I'm telling you, leave D* for a few months and try Tivo/cable. I have all the HD I could possibly want, (more than I had) it's as good as D*'s picture, it's on TiVo, and its CHEAPER.

All this anticipation and complaining will be gone in a puff.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Ironically I must thank jaywdetroit for bringing this thread marginally back to topic.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Ironically I must thank jaywdetroit for bringing this thread marginally back to topic.


It's nice to be appreciated. (even if its marginally) :lol:

Seriously though, I am guessing there are such a small number of people who *really* care about whether or not it's TiVo recording their shows, or a HRXX, that D* ought to offer to buy them all a Stand Alone TiVo and a 6 mo cable scrip just to end the agony.

And if you consider yourself one of those people, just go! You will not regret it. I wasn't even in it completely for the TiVo, and I'm loving it, because I forgot how much more fun TV is with it.

If TiVo ever gets around to supplying D* with a box, it won't come close to what you get on the Stand Alone. And with the recent announcement that Google TV may integrate with future D* DVR's... TiVo on D* is going to be irrelevant.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

I pop into this thread from time to time. I have got to say, I just hooked up an HR 24. I finally got SWiM. I am about to hook up DECA and then MVR. These items all go a long way towards my satisfaction with the D* boxes. I will be running three DVRs, hooking them together will get me past the 50 series limitation. So I have one bug, the audio dropouts, that is still giving me a lot of grief. I do still want to ditch my HR20-700's eventually. But the longer Tivo takes, the more likely it will be That I replace them with HR 24s. I can't really believe that a Tivo box will be able to share video with an HR box. If that is the case, I surely won't replace all three DVR's with Tivos. 

So the point of this little rant is that Tivo has probably delayed itself out of this fanboy's business. Kind of a shame.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

jaywdetroit said:


> If TiVo ever gets around to supplying D* with a box, it won't come close to what you get on the Stand Alone. And with the recent announcement that Google TV may integrate with future D* DVR's... TiVo on D* is going to be irrelevant.


As many others have said, I don't care about any added features like Google TV. I merely want the HR10's functionality, useability and reliability combined with MPEG-4.


oldfantom said:


> So the point of this little rant is that Tivo has probably delayed itself out of this fanboy's business. Kind of a shame.


I remain very interested in getting two new DirecTiVos, in spite of the frustrating delay. Otherwise I'd opt for two MRV'd HR24s as soon as I can get them.


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## slimoli (Jan 28, 2005)

MRV is working so well now that I can't live without it. I love TiVo but the HRs are getting better and better. When and If TiVo-Directv comes, the HR will be so good that I don't think I will want one.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> As many others have said, I don't care about any added features like Google TV. I merely want the HR10's functionality, useability and reliability combined with MPEG-4.
> 
> I remain very interested in getting two new DirecTiVos, in spite of the frustrating delay. Otherwise I'd opt for two MRV'd HR24s as soon as I can get them.


You know, you get a 30 day trial with Stand Alone TiVo. I'm not sure if you are an NFL nut, but it you aren't you should just try it for 30 days.

I don't know your situation, or what you have available to you obviously, but if you have Digital Cable nearby, its worth trying if you want TiVo that badly.

TV is more watchable because the channel changes are MUCH Faster, so I can surf a TON of HD channels old school style.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Jay,

You must realize cable varies greatly by region and provider. Your area may be great and have tons of HD with great PQ, while others don't. It's kind of unfair to suggest to try cable if you're in a crappy area. Here in the Dallas area, TWC has mediocre PQ and a pathetic HD lineup (46 channels). Even the all-mighty Tivo can't help those 2 pitfalls.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Jay,
> 
> You must realize cable varies greatly by region and provider. Your area may be great and have tons of HD with great PQ, while others don't. It's kind of unfair to suggest to try cable if you're in a crappy area. Here in the Dallas area, TWC has mediocre PQ and a pathetic HD lineup (46 channels). Even the all-mighty Tivo can't help those 2 pitfalls.


I agree! And I do realize that! But if I had to make (an admittedly UN-educated guess) I'd imagine at least half of the people reading this thread live in an area that has a cable system that can rival D*. Furthermore, I have been away from Comcast soooo long (for good reason) that I had no idea how things have improved with them. I am getting more HD from them than I had. A TON MORE locals, FSC is included, and PQ is fantastic. And what was MOST surprising, was my installation experience. The guy was a complete pro.

My experience cannot be an anomaly. IMHO, It's worth a try to people who are YEARNING SO BADLY for TiVo.

If your local cable system sucks, you can re-activate your D* account with a phone call, pack up your TiVo in a box, and send it back.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

You're happy...that's what matters.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> You're happy...that's what matters.


You are right, and I think ultimately my point to all the "gotta have it" TiVo folks out there is this: It was SOOOO easy to get that way. AND ITS CHEAPER. I am kicking myself for not doing it sooner!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Drink the kool aid...
> 
> I'm telling you, leave D* for a few months and try Tivo/cable. I have all the HD I could possibly want, (more than I had) it's as good as D*'s picture, it's on TiVo, and its CHEAPER.
> 
> All this anticipation and complaining will be gone in a puff.


Okay, dude. I HAD cable in the house with a standalone Series 3 HD Tivo for about 2 years side by side with DirecTV. Comcast sucks. The PQ was slightly not as good as DirecTV. They had much less HD (they are catching up because they are finally turning off analog). They had ZERO out of market HD sports (a driver for me) with even FEWER HD premiums than DirecTV.

The Tivo was not the greatest thing in the world. It messed up more often than my HR20s and I used it a lot less. Tivo had a horrible time keeping up with channel realignments (I often had to tell them a change occurred and it took up to two weeks for the guide to get corrected).

Don't tell me about Kool Aid. I drank from all the drinks. I am happy with the HR2x series. They work for me. They get me great HD. They get me tons and tons of HD sports. They have been dependable and I prefer the GUI over the tinkertoy Tivo GUI.

Oh, and DirecTV listens to its customers far more than Tivo ever has on what to change and how to implement it. Complete with an open "beta" (I know they hate that word) environment.

I am glad cable worked out for you. It did not at all for me and will not for many people while it will for many others. But to claim it is Kool Aid because you found a service that works better for YOU is the height of arrogance.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> [...] AND ITS CHEAPER. I am kicking myself for not doing it sooner!


How many TiVo's do you have? Curious what your up front and monthly costs are vs. DirecTV for a comparable set-up and package.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> How many TiVo's do you have? Curious what your up front and monthly costs are vs. DirecTV for a comparable set-up and package.


For me I have 3 Tivos with lifetime, 2 Premiere XLs and 1 Tivo HD upgraded to 1TB. I also have a quad tuner clearqam Windows 7 setup though on Directv I could have done something similar if I invested in a OTA setup. I pay $142 a month which includes everything including HD but the movie channels which I dropped a few months back, and the $142 includes TV, phone, and internet.

On Directv I was paying around $150 for 4 Directivos, no HD, 2 distant locals, movie channels, and the protection plan. I was grandfathered in under the plan that included the DVR fee. I was also paying an additional $90 for phone and slower internet.

Now I paid $1100 for my original 3 TiVo HDs with lifetime which was a great deal at the time but with the release of the Premiere they can be found around $400 a pop on ebay. I sold 2 of them before they dropped for the price of the Premiere XLs after the TiVo upgrade offer since they were upgraded with 1TB drives. I have pretty much already covered this cost with the promotions and savings when I made the switch.

If you include all of my Tivos, DVRs and my WHS, I have 6 cable card tuners, 4 clearqam/OTA tuners and around 9TBs of recording space since my TiVos dump to my server.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> For me I have 3 Tivos with lifetime, 2 Premiere XLs and 1 Tivo HD upgraded to 1TB. I also have a quad tuner clearqam Windows 7 setup though on Directv I could have done something similar if I invested in a OTA setup. I pay $142 a month which includes everything including HD but the movie channels which I dropped a few months back, and the $142 includes TV, phone, and internet. [...]


You probably had premium or sports channels when you were paying DirecTV $150/month, no?

DirecTV "Choice Locals" runs $59. Add HD, DVR and MRV fees and we're up to $79. Two add'l receivers brings the total to $89/month. Vonage and 15/2 Internet cost me $55/month. Total $144. 6 simultaneous tuners and 1.5 TB shared storage space, watch/resume any show on any box.

If we're comparing apples to apples, the newest TiVo Premieres + Lifetime cost either $700 or $900 (XL). HR24's are either free, $100 or $200 each, depending on the current offer (or the CSR).


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> You probably had premium or sports channels when you were paying DirecTV $150/month, no?
> 
> DirecTV "Choice Locals" runs $59. Add HD, DVR and MRV fees and we're up to $79. Two add'l receivers brings the total to $89/month. Vonage and 15/2 Internet cost me $55/month. Total $144. 6 simultaneous tuners and 1.5 TB shared torage space, watch/resume any show on any box.
> 
> If we're comparing apples to apples, the newest TiVo Premieres + Lifetime cost either $700 or $900 (XL). HR24's are either free, $100 or $200 each, depending on the current offer (or the CSR).


On Directv I had the top package, Premium or Premier I think it was called which included the DVR fee and no sports packages. When I made the switch I also went with the top package except I gained almost every channel in HD which didn't have on Directv. I didn't go from the top package on Directv to a bottom or middle package. I did after the first 6 months of being free drop the movie channels because I didn't watch them as much since I used them mainly for their original series not for movies.

They have since added a top package above mine now, but all it seems to add is the Red Zone and Epix neither of which I would watch though the package does increase internet speeds.

Choice Locals is equal to the most basic plan I have access to which isn't what I have and that package would run me 89 which includes phone, internet, and all SD channels excluding premium movie channels with locals in HD.

Compared to my current plan for that $2 more a month you get slower internet speeds, vonage which I haven't tried, less HD channels, and less storage space. I can also watch any show and also backup any show to my server in case I fall behind which I tend to do. Then again I have over 300 season passes. I also have 6 simultaneous tuners so I am not sure why you underlined that part.

Correct the TiVos cost money but I took that into account when I was on Directv and looking to upgrade to HD. With Directv I would have to pay the additional HD fees, but also the upfront lease fee for the receivers. The TiVos I own and like when I sold the TiVo HDs they tend to retain their value or in my case make money. It cost me nothing to upgrade to the Premiere.

Of course if TiVO had gotten a HD Directivo box out there, I don't know how much I would have looked into making the switch. I probably would have because I was already paying more than I wanted to when combined with phone and internet and the thought of paying another 10-15 a month for HD turned me off.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Brennok said:


> On Directv I had the top package, Premium or Premier I think it was called which included the DVR fee and no sports packages. When I made the switch I also went with the top package except I gained almost every channel in HD which didn't have on Directv. I didn't go from the top package on Directv to a bottom or middle package. I did after the first 6 months of being free drop the movie channels because I didn't watch them as much since I used them mainly for their original series not for movies.


Not trying to get on you but you said above:



> I pay $142 a month which includes everything including HD but the movie channels which I dropped a few months back,


Thus with DirecTV you had the top package that included all the movie channels. But on cable you do not have any movie channels. Thus the apples to oranges comparison. What you have with cable would be the Choice Xtra with DirecTV at around $75 a month. If you got all the movie channels on cable you'd probably be around $180 a month I'd think.

Just want to be sure you're comparing the same things here. Doesn't make your move a bad one, just be sure you're not thinking you're saving more money then you really are.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> [...] I also have 6 simultaneous tuners so I am not sure why you underlined that part [...]


Just because we can watch anything, anywhere at anytime, so it's virtually 6 tuners per viewing location. I know you can copy with TiVO, but streaming MRV is transparent. It's like everything is "local", no matter which TV in the home you're watching.

BTW, can you start watching in one room with TiVO, and then resume playback from another? I wouldn't have thought that's an important feature, but as it turns out, we do that often.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I am glad cable worked out for you. It did not at all for me and will not for many people while it will for many others. But to claim it is Kool Aid because you found a service that works better for YOU is the height of arrogance.


Let's not get personal, this is TV we are talking about here.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Not trying to get on you but you said above:
> 
> Thus with DirecTV you had the top package that included all the movie channels. But on cable you do not have any movie channels. Thus the apples to oranges comparison. What you have with cable would be the Choice Xtra with DirecTV at around $75 a month. If you got all the movie channels on cable you'd probably be around $180 a month I'd think.
> 
> Just want to be sure you're comparing the same things here. Doesn't make your move a bad one, just be sure you're not thinking you're saving more money then you really are.


Correct I did drop the movie channels but they were free initially for the first 6 months. i still have HBO and Cinemax for free. I would say you are correct in the fact it would probably be $180 with movie channels now so instead of saving $100 a month I am saving $60 a month based off $180 versus $150+$90 for the same setup on Directv minus HD based off what I was previously paying.

I don't know all the new Directv packages, but does Choice Xtra include everything in HD and just not the movie channels?

Also don't forget I would have to add $90 to whatever the total Directv price is to keep my same phone and internet options.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> [...] Compared to my current plan for that $2 more a month you get slower internet speeds, vonage which I haven't tried, less HD channels, and less storage space [...]


Everyone's needs are different, I guess.

15mbps is more than I'll ever use. Just two of us in the home, and even if we both are streaming video, we'd only be using a third of that capacity on average.

Other providers may be as good, but it's a safe bet that no VOIP provider is better than Vonage. They have all the features everyone else has, and they've been rock solid for almost 3 years. Never had an outage or a even a hiccup we've noticed.

In terms of storage space and HD, 3 HD DVR's will provide 300 hours of HD storage and we get all the HD channels we want to watch, except AMC and BBC America.I expect that will be here "any day now", courtesy of D12.

That said, I understand some may need faster internet, more storage, or more HD channels. Probably not the "average" subscriber household, tho.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> Just because we can watch anything, anywhere at anytime, so it's virtually 6 tuners per viewing location. I know you can copy with TiVO, but streaming MRV is transparent. It's like everything is "local", no matter which TV in the home you're watching.
> 
> BTW, can you start watching in one room with TiVO, and then resume playback from another? I wouldn't have thought that's an important feature, but as it turns out, we do that often.


With the MRV on the Premiere, the copying speeds are nearly transparent. I can transfer a one hour HD show of around 8gb in about 15 minutes so I can easily watch it as soon as it starts transferring. Even as much as I fast forward I don't catch up to the buffer. I couldn't do this on the HD though because I fast forward too much and it was too slow in transferring.

If I start a show in one room and decide to change rooms, it will give me the option to transfer from the beginning or transfer from paused point.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> With the MRV on the Premiere, the copying speeds are nearly transparent. I can transfer a one hour HD show of around 8gb in about 15 minutes so I can easily watch it as soon as it starts transferring. Even as much as I fast forward I don't catch up to the buffer. I couldn't do this on the HD though because I fast forward too much and it was too slow in transferring.
> 
> If I start a show in one room and decide to change rooms, it will give me the option to transfer from the beginning or transfer from paused point.


Good you can resume. So maybe TiVO copy vs. MRV is a virtual wash, thanks to the Premiere h/w. Huge up front out of pocket, tho. That's a show stopper for me, since DirecTV is an option.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> Everyone's needs are different, I guess.
> 
> 15mbps is more than I'll ever use. Just two of us in the home, and even if we both are streaming video, we'd only be using a third of that capacity on average.
> 
> ...


Oh I agree. I never thought I would really use more than 15 but it is included. It is definitely nice though.

I was spoiled on Directv since I had upgraded all my Directivos to 500gb so I had 400-500 hours per Directivo. I tried living with less recording space, but quickly upgraded my TiVo HDs to 1tb since 60 hours of HD was nowhere near enough. If I only had my TiVos I would have 450 HD hours now, but it is nice having my own VOD library. I could probably just add Netflix and recreate some of the server as more shows are now on DVD.

Either way I have to keep an eye on Directv since I have my father on Directv waiting for the HD Tivo. He won't leave due to the Sunday Ticket and I have tried the regular Directv UI which he hates.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Let's not get personal, this is TV we are talking about here.


Hahaha. You can insult people who prefer DirecTV by saying we drink Kool Aid but you don't want to get personal....


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I've always wondered why the hate for the DirecTV UI.

When I switched from the Series3 UI, the HR20 definitely was different, but just like one flavor vs another.

Now it just seems so pleasant, especially with the HR24.

To watch ... LIST ... UP-DOWN ... SELECT or PLAY. When done ... EXIT. Instantaneous. Just so easy.

To jump to my favorite 9 channels ... UP ... have QuickTune (UP-DOWN-LEFT-RIGHT) ... SELECT. Instantaneous. Just so easy.

For guide ... same stuff. And hit "R" along the way to record.

For TODO ... MENU ... Manage Recordings ... SELECT-SELECT ... yep a few key presses but with HR24 it's so snappy.

Used to love TiVo ... but the above is 99% of what I do with the HR24. 

The HR24 works great, and TiVo was great too, this is just a different way.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Steve said:


> How many TiVo's do you have? Curious what your up front and monthly costs are vs. DirecTV for a comparable set-up and package.


Look at my thread on my switchover...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=176777
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Tivo, I can't compare D* start up costs, because I've had D* for 11 years.

TiVo was 320 after Taxes. Added year long scrip, 120 something
Cable install was 50 bucks.

Upfront costs: 320+125+50 = $495

Comcast - All HD, ALL Channels aside from Premiums: 52/mo out the door for the first 6 months. NO DVR FEE, NO STB FEE
-70 something after 6 months.

Comcast required by law to provide CableCard. 1st one is free.

I will probably add phone and internet, which will provide serious savings over my current situation, and higher quality. (Triple play with HD will be 109 per month for 6 months. I'll be saving serious money at that point.)

FOX SOCCER IS INCLUDED. I have a ton of college sports channels.

The only HD channels I am really missing that I had on D*, are Smithsonian, and HDNet. But I added MSNBC (I know, D12), History International, and a bunch of other HD I don't really care about it. (TruTV, StyleHD, etc.) 
The PQ of the HD is OUTSTANDING. I can see NO DIFFERENCE from D*.
I get more HD Channels. (Prior to D12 activation) Aside from some of the secondary kids and music channels, virtually EVERY cable channel is in HD.

Channel changes are super fast for me. I don't watch anything in SD, my kids do though.

I have locals from Detroit, Flint, Lansing, and Jackson. I get the secondary local channels, .2, .3 etc. I get local access channels as well.

*****************************

Now the reason I did all this wasn't really for the TiVo. (I just was pleasantly surprised how much I missed it, and despite some missing features that the HRxx's have, its a better experience for me. Just plain fun.) When I am able, I am going to purchase a CableCard HDHomerun, adding 3 tuners to my network. At that point, I will do MRV with PCs. (In the meantime, TiVo Desktop and my laptop.)

I'll buy an Acer Revo for one room, and already have an HTPC on my main TV. Depending on interference from the kids, I can phase the TiVo out after a year and maybe sell it to recover some of the start up costs. But as I said, I've found that I missed it more than I realized.

For those of you who have had a Series 3, please note that the TiVo premiere is reportedly MUCH faster. (I never used one.) I can tell you the TiVo Premiere is MUCH faster than my HR20's.

Look, I realize as I said in a previous post, that cable systems around the country are VASTLY different. But I really highly doubt that my area is the only area that is providing this kind of quality and value.

The point I am making is, don't assume (as I did for the last 11 years) that cable/tivo isn't an option until you try it!


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Hahaha. You can insult people who prefer DirecTV by saying we drink Kool Aid but you don't want to get personal....


No no friend, I said "DRINK the kool aid" AS IN, THE KOOL AID I AM PROVIDING


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> I've always wondered why the hate for the DirecTV UI.


You and me both.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> ... But I really highly doubt that my area is the only area that is providing this kind of quality and value.


That is where the problem is. The vast majority of areas do not provide such powerful combination, the areas where competition is fierce, other offerings are more attractive and turnkey. Most people want one stop shop solutions.

In the not so distant future, the sophisticated arrangement you described for yourself will be available as a turnkey package provided by one provider, with other manufactures jointed at the hip, not as standalone services.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> [...] 1 Tivo, I can't compare D* start up costs, because I've had D* for 11 years.
> 
> TiVo was 320 after Taxes. Added year long scrip, 120 something
> Cable install was 50 bucks.
> ...


DirecTV up front costs $0 for installation, and 0, $100, lr $200, depending on the deal you get. All channels except premiums $69. HD and DVR $17. That's *$86/month*.

vs.

You're paying $10/month subscription for TV listings ($120/year) and $70/month for channels. That's *$80/month*, but you shelled out at least $170 more up front for installation and the TiVo box ($370 more if you get a free HD DVR, like most new D* customers). And does one cable card = 1 tuner? How much more per month for a second card?

Seems like a wash to me.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> And does one cable card = 1 tuner? How much more per month for a second card?
> 
> Seems like a wash to me.


Cable cards allow up to 6 streams to be used so it depends on how many tuners the device has. Like for example the Ceton card coming for Windows 7 will add 4 cable tuners to the PC on one cable card.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> Cable cards allow up to 6 streams to be used so it depends on how many tuners the device has. Like for example the Ceton card coming for Windows 7 will add 4 cable tuners to the PC on one cable card.


That's cool. Didn't know that.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Steve said:


> DirecTV up front costs $0 for installation, and 0, $100, lr $200, depending on the deal you get. All channels except premiums $69. HD and DVR $17. That's *$86/month*.
> 
> vs.
> 
> ...


You are getting a far better deal from D* than I was getting. My bill was in the mid 90s monthly with no premiums, HD, 2 DVRs, can't use MC7. When I bundle in phone and internet I will be saving 70/month.

Plus to get fox soccer, I would have had to shell out another 12 or 13 bucks a month. I get all the sports channels they have as part of my 70/month.

And yes, my one cable card gives me dual tuners. I could get the Ceton card and get 4 more for whopping $1.50 per month, but I am holding out for the HDHomerun which will only give me 3 more tuners (AND DVR ANYWHERE) for a whopping $1.50 per month.

Not a wash for me.

Let's not forget I now OWN my TiVo, so when I am done... EBAY. My D* DVRS will need to be sent back.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> I've always wondered why the hate for the DirecTV UI.


OK, Sixto, I accept the challenge!  However, I will add some disclaimers:

*DISCLAIMER #1: I wouldn't say I hate DirecTV UI... it's more like I dislike it, but there are parts of it I hate.*
*DISCLAIMER #2: This post will be EXTREMELY negative in regards to the DirecTV UI. That being said, there are things about the DirecTV UI I like a lot, nor do I pretend that TiVo's UI is perfect.*​

Whenever Earl first presented the HR20-700 First Look, I was quite vocal about my dislike for the GUI... even going so far as to compare it to some DOS programs of old... or DeskMate for those of you who remember Tandy computers. Since that time, DirecTV has updated their GUI... which unfortunately looks very similar, but uses a color scheme which does at least give it a more "modern" look... and upgrades my computer comparison to Windows '95.

Over the years, I've heard a common reply to the criticism... namely that the GUI isn't important, it's that it works in other ways. Fair enough! As someone who works with graphic design in my job, I can certainly see how I might focus on design, whereas other people simply might not care. However, every where you look, companies are taking advantage of newer technologies to offer sleeker and more "modern" UIs, so I think there will come a day in the future where DirecTV will want to update their UI to keep their product from looking "cheap" compared to other CE products.

... but as I said, I can understand that appearance isn't everything, it's how it's used, and to be fair, a LOT of my complaints about the HR2x's UI usage during the early days have been fixed... shows inside folders no longer being alphabetized when you have your Playlist set to A-Z is one such fix that comes to mind... but there are some that still exist:

*A DVR IS NOT A DVR, OF COURSE OF COURSE:* When DirecTV designed the HR20 (and the R15), they wanted a standardized look across their whole line. From a "Support" point of view, this is a great idea, but from a design POV, it can be missing the forrest for the trees. One of my major complaints over the years is that the HR2x is simply a digital VCR, or a H2x that has recording abilities.

In DirecTV's defense, they are but one of MANY companies who make their DVRs this way, and I realize that this isn't an issue for some, but for me, it can be extremely infuriating at times.

Some of these complaints are not GUI related, but two are:


No Home Menu (DirecTV Central, if you will): With a D1x or a H2x, going straight to LIVE TV is fine, but if you have a DVR, going straight to LIVE TV when turning on the unit can be problematic... particularly when you're recording on both tuners... and the only way to get around it is by doing a complicated D) series of steps neccessary in order to not have an ending to a TV show ruined for you.

Picture In Playlist (PiL): Of course, even if you manage to complete those steps above, you also have to take care not to look up once you get to the Playlist due to PiL.

Over the years, I've had an "American Idol" results show result ruined before I got a chance to watch it, I've had character deaths spoiled for me on "24", "Lost", etc., as well as endings to mystery shows like CSI and the like spoiled by the DirecTV UI... so those are certainly two of my major complaints.

*BARREN WASTELAND:* OK, this is more of a design issue than anything else, but since it impacts usage somewhat, I'll list it. DirecTV's GUI is not optomized very well. As someone who comes from a graphical background, I'm used to having to make the best use of the space I'm given, and the DirecTV GUI is sad in this regard. They could do some simple (well, from a graphical standpoint... not sure about from a coding POV without starting over) redesigns that would allow them MUCH better use of the screen space and allow them to offer more channels in the GUIDE, more programs in the PLAYLIST and To Do List, and more. If they wanted to use an HD GUI, it'd be even easier to make use of the screen space.

While I'm trying to stay out of simple design choices that doesn't affect usage, I did want to add one that is a "gray area" sort of thing since it works fine like it is, but I'm preferable to the TiVo way of doing it. I'm referring to the way folders work... as I prefer going INTO a folder instead of just expanding it. I've always preferred that with Windows as well. As I implied, it's a nitpick, but I did want to add it.

*OPTIONS:* Sure, TiVo didn't have a WHOLE lot of options either, but older DirecTV stand-alone models prior to DirecTV bringing the design in-house sometimes had a whole BOAT-LOAD of options. I had one receiver that allowed you to change the color scheme, the ability to omit PiG in favor of additional channels in the GUIDE, as well as the ability to omit channel logos from the GUIDE in order to fit more channels.

Those are some of the thoughts off the top of my head, but I'm going to assume it at least gives you an idea of some of my larger complaints.

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, that's a long and detailed post about something that has nothing to do with Tivo in a Tivo thread.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> Wow, that's a long and detailed post about something that has nothing to do with Tivo in a Tivo thread.


Well...maybe 1% of it does.... :lol:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Well...maybe 1% of it does.... :lol:


That's true, he does refer to Tivo three times. :lol:


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> OK, Sixto, I accept the challenge!  ...


Alan, Thanks for the post. It's always interesting to see some of the details behind one's perspective on the DirecTV UI vs the TiVo UI. In this case, it's especially fascinating because most of what you posted I had the opposite opinion. 

Old vs Modern ... this is probably the point I find the most fascinating, because I'll usually always chose the clean simple interface. Whether it's a PC or a DVR, I'll usually turn off the pretty stuff, especially any animation. On the HR24, the interface is snappy quick, it's simple, and I love it. Priority #1 is instant quick response, which we finally have. The TiVo Premiere interface would drive me nuts, always retrieving flash content.

Home Menu ... Certainly want the first screen to be "live" TV, but it would be nice to have an option (for others) to turn off PIL or PIG. Then you could immediately hit LIST or GUIDE and not ruin a show. Since one of my favorite features on the HR2x (vs TiVo) is PIL and PIG, I'd leave it as-is, but at least others would have a choice. I'm constantly bouncing around from screen to screen while watching a ballgame, every day, so just love the way this works, especially on the HR24 (the HR21-200 raised my BP ).

More data for GUIDE or LIST ... Might be fine as long as the fonts were ok. I worry about an HD UI if it slows anything down. If it's just as quick as the current HR24, then fine.

Folders ... I like to see folders collapse and expand. For Windows, the file manager I use works the some way and prefer it.

Options ... Sure, options are great, but mostly like it just the way it is now ... but it can always be quicker. 

Edit: and one more point ... love TiVo Desktop.  (photos, transfer recordings ...)


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> Wow, that's a long and detailed post about something that has nothing to do with Tivo in a Tivo thread.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Well...maybe 1% of it does.... :lol:





 Jeremy W said:


> That's true, he does refer to Tivo three times. :lol:


Sixto said that he "wondered why the hate for the DirecTV UI"...

As someone who has FREQUENTLY stated that he prefers the TiVo UI, I felt that _some_ of the criticisms might help clear up some of the reasons why someone might prefer the TiVo UI... or other GUIs.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Alan, Thanks for the post. It's always interesting to see some of the details behind one's perspective on the DirecTV UI vs the TiVo UI. In this case, it's especially fascinating because most of what you posted I had the opposite opinion.


Different strokes, different folks...



Sixto said:


> Old vs Modern ... this is probably the point I find the most fascinating, because I'll usually always chose the clean simple interface. Whether it's a PC or a DVR, I'll usually turn off the pretty stuff, especially any animation. On the HR24, the interface is snappy quick, it's simple, and I love it. Priority #1 is instant quick response, which we finally have. The TiVo Premiere interface would drive me nuts, always retrieving flash content.


Old does not neccessarily mean "clean" and "simple"... in fact, I sometimes consider it the other way around... particularly when using the PC comparison I've frequently used.... just look at Windows 7 compared to earlier versions.

As I previously stated, TiVo UI is not "perfect", nor do I pretend it to be, and if I was in charge of the design for their UI, I'd make subtle changes as well in order to steer away from the "cartoony" look... but I do consider it to be, in many respects, a sleeker, more updated look over the HR2x's design.

Speed is always good... however, you mention two different scenarios above... namely hardware vs. software. From what little I know about the HR24 vs. the TiVo Premiere, the speed of the HR24 comes from it's internal parts, whereas the TiVo Premiere's lack of speed comes from poor software and stupid decisions. However, a middle ground can be reached...



Sixto said:


> Home Menu ... Certainly want the first screen to be "live" TV, but it would be nice to have an option (for others) to turn off PIL or PIG. Then you could immediately hit LIST or GUIDE and not ruin a show. Since one of my favorite features on the HR2x (vs TiVo) is PIL and PIG, I'd leave it as-is, but at least others would have a choice. I'm constantly bouncing around from screen to screen while watching a ballgame, every day, so just love the way this works, especially on the HR24 (the HR21-200 raised my BP ).


I've had a few run-ins with my blood pressure and the HR23-700... very thankful for this new NR. 

I rarely watch "live" TV... so there's very few instances where going straight to LIVE TV would be a plus for me. However, that was one feature the TiVo had the best of both worlds. A TiVo/DirecTV button and a LIVE TV button. DirecTV doesn't have that choice, so a new "user optional" DirecTV Home page would be a fantastic addition in my book!

However, one thing to note is that I ENJOY PiG. When I moved from a DirecTV STB to a DirecTiVo, PiG was one of the features I missed. It took me a while to realize it wasn't neccessary on a DVR, but I still enjoy having it back.

*My earlier post was a list of some of my ISSUES with the DirecTV UI... and that was the reason for the negativity... but there are MANY instances where I believe they've done things right... and ways where TiVo (and others) could learn a thing or two... *



Sixto said:


> More data for GUIDE or LIST ... Might be fine as long as the fonts were ok. I worry about an HD UI if it slows anything down. If it's just as quick as the current HR24, then fine.


TiVo currently shows more data... with some rearranging, DirecTV could show extra as well. Add the HD GUI, even more is possible.

I have some of the same worries about the HD UI as you do, particularly with the older models...



Sixto said:


> Folders ... I like to see folders collapse and expand. For Windows, the file manager I use works the some way and prefer it.


I had an instance recently where the collapse/expand method didn't work in my favor... and caused some under the breath cursing. Still, that's a nitpick as the current method works fine. 



Sixto said:


> Options ... Sure, options are great, but mostly like it just the way it is now ... but it can always be quicker.


Aside from the quicker comment, I'm going to disagree with the above. 



Sixto said:


> Edit: and one more point ... love TiVo Desktop.  (photos, transfer recordings ...)


As do I, as do I.... 

~Alan


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Sixto said that he "wondered why the hate for the DirecTV UI"...
> 
> As someone who has FREQUENTLY stated that he prefers the TiVo UI, I felt that _some_ of the criticisms might help clear up some of the reasons why someone might prefer the TiVo UI... or other GUIs.
> 
> ~Alan


Alan,

Great post. You just have to get used to the few here that hate TiVo no matter what for no reason.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Channel 582 is saying Upcoming Tivo Channel 1 Test is this a sign of new tivo coming soon or just stuff for the old one?


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> 582 has been the channel where the Tivo Showcases get recorded from in the overnight hours. Been that way for...ummmm....8 years or so now.





JoeTheDragon said:


> Channel 582 is saying Upcoming Tivo Channel 1 Test is this a sign of new tivo coming soon or just stuff for the old one?


see above


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JBernardK said:


> You just have to get used to the few here that hate TiVo no matter what for no reason.


Perhaps the "hate" comes from the fact that they can't embrace TiVo if it isn't available. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

JBernardK said:


> Alan,
> 
> Great post. You just have to get used to the few here that hate TiVo no matter what for no reason.





harsh said:


> Perhaps the "hate" comes from the fact that they can't embrace TiVo if it isn't available. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.


...or it could be possible that they actually like DirecTV's implementation better. 

Honestly, my TiVo Series 3 has picked up several features that were available on the HR2x prior to the TiVo Series 3. The TiVo Premiere now has multiple features previously available on the HR2x....

... so perhaps even TiVo recognizes that some people out there might like the way DirecTV does things?! 

~Alan


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

harsh said:


> Perhaps the "hate" comes from the fact that they can't embrace TiVo if it isn't available. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.


Or, we've used TIVO and really didn't find TIVO to be "all that."

Honestly, having used TIVO/DirecTIVO prior to the HR2x and then trying to go back and use my brother's TIVO, I find that the TIVO GUI is just plain frustrating to use.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

say-what said:


> Or, we've used TIVO and really didn't find TIVO to be "all that."
> 
> Honestly, having used TIVO/DirecTIVO prior to the HR2x and then trying to go back and use my brother's TIVO, I find that the TIVO GUI is just plain frustrating to use.


Could you elaborate? Alan has told us exactly what he finds "frustrating' with the HR series.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

JBernardK said:


> Could you elaborate? Alan has told us exactly what he finds "frustrating' with the HR series.


... and completely left out what I like about it... 

*NOTE:* Just wanted to add that....

~Alan


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> Could you elaborate? Alan has told us exactly what he finds "frustrating' with the HR series.


Sorry, I don't interact much with my brother's TIVO anymore outside of changing channels if I can avoid it - helped him set them up a few years back and then networked them - I just find the HR2x much easier to use. I didn't have problems transitioning from TIVO to HR2x, but certainly have the opposite experience whenever I try to do anything other than basic usage of my brother's TIVO. That's as specific as I'll get because quite frankly, after 4 years of not using TIVO exclusively, I'm not going to try to use the TIVO extensively enough to compile a more detailed description.


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

JBernardK said:


> Could you elaborate? Alan has told us exactly what he finds "frustrating' with the HR series.


I realize TiVo premiere is coming that may finally address some of this but:

1) Agonizingly slow season pass priority adjustment
2) Ads plastered all over the UI and pop up while fast forwarding through programs. 
3) No PiG
4) After years of begging, still no free space meter. REALLY TiVo? Shameful.

IMO, TiVo created something very special, but they lost their way around version 3 of their software. It seems like the focus shifted to making the box into a revenue generator, and the core functionality went essentially stagnant.

At this point TiVo doesn't offer me anything that I don't already have from my HR24. DirecTV has succeeded where most other "in house" cable DVRs have failed - DirecTV steadily updates and refines their UI. Performance (particularly with MRV) was my only major problem with the HR2x series and the HR24 hardware seems to have addressed that.

That's not to say the HR24 is perfect. TiVo just needs to do more - a LOT more - if they want me to pay a premium for it.


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## Tallgntlmn (Jun 8, 2007)

djrobx said:


> TiVo just needs to do more - a LOT more - if they want me to pay a premium for it.


The thing is that DirecTV probably will NOT ALLOW it to do more. I'd venture to guess no Netflix, Youtube, TiVo2Go, etc will be on the HD-TiVo.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Tallgntlmn said:


> The thing is that DirecTV probably will NOT ALLOW it to do more. I'd venture to guess no Netflix, Youtube, TiVo2Go, etc will be on the HD-TiVo.


Hopefully no ad prompts during FF either.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steve said:


> Hopefully no ad prompts during FF either.


Or ads on just about every screen you bring up....

BTW, just about all those things that Tivo brings to the table (Netflix, You Tube, etc) can be had for one simple purchase price of a Roku box. Why pay Tivo all that money for that functionality when it is cheaper and easier to use on the Roku? No additional subscription needed.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Steve said:


> Hopefully no ad prompts during FF either.


Aside from the Thumbs Up to record an advertised program, a feature that I actually like, I don't have this on my Series 3...

~Alan


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Aside from the Thumbs Up to record an advertised program, a feature that I actually like, I don't have this on my Series 3...


Just following up on *djrobx's *observation above.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Aside from the Thumbs Up to record an advertised program, a feature that I actually like, I don't have this on my Series 3...
> 
> ~Alan


I never saw them either on my HD Tivo. I did see thumbs up for things other than recording advertised programs (like cars, the like) but never saw the commericials the interrupt the FF itself although according to some who saw them on tivocommunity, they do exist.

But Tivo did become too ad laden. When it was just on Tivo Central (which I almost never went to), I didn't care but they were on pause. they were on the list screen, they were in groups of programs and even when I deleted a program.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Steve said:


> Just following up on *djrobx's *observation above.


I knew... but I really don't get the hate.

Aside from the little icon in the corner asking me if I want to record a program being advertised, a feature that I've found handy from time to time, I think I might have experienced one other advertisement... namely a pop-up in the upper right corner telling me to hit Thumbs Up if I wanted more information about a car. I disregarded it...

Sure there's an advertisement on the TiVo Central/DirecTV Central page, but I honestly don't pay any attention to it.

Yeah, there's also some within the Playlist folders, but I honestly don't pay much attention to it... and deem it to be no more obtrusive than the banner ads on the Guide on the HR2x (aside from the multiple back to back ones in the PPV areas... which are hidden thanks to my Favorites list).

~Alan


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I never saw them either on my HD Tivo. I did see thumbs up for things other than recording advertised programs (like cars, the like) but never saw the commericials the interrupt the FF itself although according to some who saw them on tivocommunity, they do exist [...]


This is from an April '09 New York Times article (my bolding):

_"In December, TiVo began offering ads that appear as a small piece of text when viewers pause a show. Advertisers can choose the specific show or genre they want their pause ad to appear on - Mercedes-Benz USA used it to promote a new car during football games earlier this year. TiVo also offers ads that appear when viewers fast-forward through shows. *Advertisers that run regular 30- or 60-second spots can buy these*, and when the viewer presses fast-forward, a static box appears. One for Tourism Australia shows a photograph of a girl on a beach with the text, exclaiming, "Don't tell me I just skipped the Australia ad!" TiVo viewers are instructed to press the Thumbs Up button to see the ad and get more information. [*more*]"_

If they're not being seen, it's possible advertisers are just not buying them anymore.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steve said:


> This is from an April '09 New York Times article (my bolding):
> 
> _"In December, TiVo began offering ads that appear as a small piece of text when viewers pause a show. Advertisers can choose the specific show or genre they want their pause ad to appear on - Mercedes-Benz USA used it to promote a new car during football games earlier this year. TiVo also offers ads that appear when viewers fast-forward through shows. *Advertisers that run regular 30- or 60-second spots can buy these*, and when the viewer presses fast-forward, a static box appears. One for Tourism Australia shows a photograph of a girl on a beach with the text, exclaiming, "Don't tell me I just skipped the Australia ad!" TiVo viewers are instructed to press the Thumbs Up button to see the ad and get more information. [*more*]"_
> 
> If they're not being seen, it's possible advertisers are just not buying them anymore.


IIRC, it was not on all Tivo boxes and there was something odd about how it was rolled out. I think it was only on Series 2 boxes or something strange like that. No idea if they are pursuing this on the Premiere.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> IIRC, it was not on all Tivo boxes and there was something odd about how it was rolled out. I think it was only on Series 2 boxes or something strange like that. No idea if they are pursuing this on the Premiere.


FWIW, this Engadget piece claims the 11.0c software brought ads to Series 3/HD models as well. Couldn't find anything on the Premiere, tho.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steve said:


> FWIW, this Engadget piece claims the 11.0c software brought ads to Series 3/HD models as well. Couldn't find anything on the Premiere, tho.


Never saw them and now my Tivo is long gone.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Enlighten Me...Someone please tell me what the advantages are of a TiVo unit over a HR unit?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Enlighten Me...Someone please tell me what the advantages are of a TiVo unit over a HR unit?


This question is not nearly as simple as you think it is, and you will not receive a satisfactory answer. You need to do your own research and figure out what the advantages and disadvantages are for you.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> Enlighten Me...Someone please tell me what the advantages are of a TiVo unit over a HR unit?


For me the HR series are superior to TIVO in many ways, but there are a few things that I really miss about my tivo that i would pay more for over the current HR.

#1 is the guide, I have said this before, but I absolutely HATE the current guide on the HR units. I do a lot of guide surfing when trying to find something to watch or record. Even the online guide for Direct TV is horrible. This is the deal breaker right there for me. If DTV could come up with a better guide similar to what TIVO has I would never even think of getting a TIVO again. It doesn't even have to be HD, I could care less, I just want more lines of channels and more listings of the current channel I selected.

The rest are just little things that I miss about my tivo

No wish list, I shouldn't have to learn a new language just to setup auto records.

NO suggestions, I know a lot of people don't like them but I found some shows i liked that I never would have thought to watch.

There were times during a commercial or ad for a show that you could press the green button to auto record the show without having to search.

Another annoying little thing with the current HR's are they take SO long to boot up and get picture, Sure the TIVO was pretty slow as well, but not anywhere near the time it takes the current HR. It should not take more than 2 or 3 minutes to boot up a DVR.

Tivo2go, never was implemented officially on the DTV boxes, but I that was a feature I really really really enjoyed. I know DTV will probably block tivo from implementing it again, but it would be very nice!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> It should not take more than 2 or 3 minutes to boot up a DVR.


Why are you rebooting so often that it matters?


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> Why are you rebooting so often that it matters?


I don't reboot that often other than Friday nights.

its just very frustrating when you are watching a show and for some reason the box locks up or the power goes blips and you have to wait all that time missing your show for it to come back on. I have a UPS installed on my main TV room box, but not the others.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> its just very frustrating when you are watching a show and for some reason the box locks up or the power goes blips and you have to wait all that time missing your show for it to come back on. I have a UPS installed on my main TV room box, but not the others.


I have all of my DVRs on a UPS, and I can't remember the last time one of them locked up. Sorry, I just don't care about how long the box takes to reboot.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Enlighten Me...Someone please tell me what the advantages are of a TiVo unit over a HR unit?


That's like trying to get someone to tell you why one beer is better than another....and a fight may ensue. :lol:

Mike


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> For me the HR series are superior to TIVO in many ways, but there are a few things that I really miss about my tivo that i would pay more for over the current HR.
> 
> #1 is the guide, I have said this before, but I absolutely HATE the current guide on the HR units. I do a lot of guide surfing when trying to find something to watch or record. Even the online guide for Direct TV is horrible. This is the deal breaker right there for me. If DTV could come up with a better guide similar to what TIVO has I would never even think of getting a TIVO again. It doesn't even have to be HD, I could care less, I just want more lines of channels and more listings of the current channel I selected.
> 
> ...


Not gonna "argue" over the things you like or dislike, just gonna add a few facts as I experienced them.

The only standalone Tivo I had was an HD Tivo and it took much longer to reboot than my HR2x's which don't take very long when you are not upgrading software. I have had power hits on HR2x's and the HD Tivo side by side and I never timed any of them but the Tivo took longer. I have a feeling that the more software, the longer the Tivo takes to boot.

The last comment, Tivo2go, wound up being pretty useless for me. Tivo passes on the braindead do not copy bit as set by the provider. Comcast (illegally, btw) here set it for everything so I could not copy any programs to my PC. Reports on this are all over tivocommunity. You can get the cable company to fix it but they come back over and over again. Not known what would happen with DirecTV....the could mess it up too even if they allow the feature to exist.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Enlighten Me...Someone please tell me what the advantages are of a TiVo unit over a HR unit?


Today, the answer is easy .. Nothing. You cannot get a TiVo that will display MPEG-4 HD. Once it's available, then the feature debate can commence.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> ... my TiVo Series 3 has picked up several features that were available on the HR2x prior to the TiVo Series 3. The TiVo Premiere now has multiple features previously available on the HR2x...





say-what said:


> ... having used TIVO/DirecTIVO prior to the HR2x and then trying to go back and use my brother's TIVO, I find that the TIVO GUI is just plain frustrating to use.


Some annoyances with my HR10:

• No (R) icons on programs in lists or in the Guide
• No one-touch record
• No one-touch keep
• No bookmarks
• No triple-tap text entry
• Tortuous path to toggle CC
• Can't get to a list of upcoming showings from a program in Now Playing

I wonder how many of these annoyances don't exist with the TiVo Premiere? (I've seen that it _does_ have an available-space meter.)


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

TIVO issued their earnings yesterday. The CEO said this in response to a question:



> In terms of our relationship with DIRECTV, aggressive development activity continues and we expect the launch of that product by the end of the year.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

If this is aggressive, I would hate to see when they have a project on the back burner.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

It is somewhat surprising to have so many people sniping the Tivo unit who hate the tivo in a Tivo thread? If you have nothing to offer why in the world are you posting in this thread?

I have to have Directv for the NFL ticket. I tried the Dtv DVR, and after they had to replace the 3rd defective unit, I said you can keep it, and bought my own Tivo box and upgraded the HD.

The Hr24 may have solved all the problems the earlier units had, but I hated the Dtv DVR boxes, with clunky menu's, slow and the real killer? No dual live buffers. 

I abhor commercials, and I like to pause the channel, and switch to the other tuner while watching games, or just lazy surfing. This practice was impossible with the Dtv DVR boxes.

I am pretty tired of watching SD on my 52" LCD, and I will have HD before the NFL season kicks off. It appears the tivo won't be here, so I am stuck with trying the HR24 box. 

Really sucks that Dtv won't confirm a HR24 and you have to buy one somewhere else but STILL lease it... but change is inevitable, adapt or die.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

H8tank said:


> I have to have Directv for the NFL ticket. I tried the Dtv DVR, and after they had to replace the 3rd defective unit, I said you can keep it, and bought my own Tivo box and upgraded the HD.
> 
> The Hr24 may have solved all the problems the earlier units had, but I hated the Dtv DVR boxes, with clunky menu's, slow and the real killer? No dual live buffers.
> 
> I abhor commercials, and I like to pause the channel, and switch to the other tuner while watching games, or just lazy surfing. This practice was impossible with the Dtv DVR boxes.


In case you're not aware...HR2x have DLB now.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

> In case you're not aware...HR2x have DLB now.


I was really hoping they did, is it always on and seemless like the Tivo is or do you have to engage it like I read you could do on the old ones?

If it works like the Tivo, then I will get an HR24 now.

Will I need a new dish or wiring?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

H8tank said:


> I was really hoping they did, is it always on and seemless like the Tivo is or do you have to engage it like I read you could do on the old ones?
> 
> If it works like the Tivo, then I will get an HR24 now.
> 
> Will I need a new dish or wiring?


Have to press down 2x to start.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

H8tank said:


> It is somewhat surprising to have so many people sniping the Tivo unit who hate the tivo in a Tivo thread? If you have nothing to offer why in the world are you posting in this thread?


I know there are others who genuinely hate TiVo posting here, but as I have mentioned in the rest of the thread, I was (and still am, just with no tiVo boxes) a big TiVo fan. The reason I signed up for DirecTV in the first place was to get the TiVo HR10-250 when it was the first HD DVR. I preordered one about a year ahead of time and was one of the first couple of hundred people to get one.

I really missed the HD DirecTiVo when I switched to the HR20s and continued to wish for nothing other than a MPEG4 capable DirecTiVo for some time. There are still a couple of things I miss about TiVo, but DirecTV has defnitely improved their DVRs by a long ways. I would love for TiVo to have a new HD DirecTiVo and be able to choose between what I have now and the new box, but after all the years of promises and missed dates, I have to say I am skeptical.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

H8tank said:


> I was really hoping they did, is it always on and seemless like the Tivo is or do you have to engage it like I read you could do on the old ones?
> 
> If it works like the Tivo, then I will get an HR24 now.


The HR2x boxes have had DLB for a long time now. Just press down twice and it's activated. Works just like Tivo after that (and actually better in many ways, check the old DLB threads for details on features).

All the HR2x boxes including the HR24 have the same software and UI. The HR24 is just faster since it has newer/faster chips. Only way to be sure of an HR24 is to get one at retail *or* do an MRV/DECA upgrade.



> Will I need a new dish or wiring?


You'll need a new dish to get the new sats at 99 and 103 if you already haven't upgraded it in the past couple years. The upgrade to the dish and switch (if you need one) is free.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

H8tank said:


> It is somewhat surprising to have so many people sniping the Tivo unit who hate the tivo in a Tivo thread?


Exactly I've never figured this out why would you post here if you weren't sincerely interested in the progress of the new HD DTivo, it seems this thread is more of a platform for some to attack Tivo fans or try to convert/convince them that the HRxx's can do this or that better. The Gui/features are different enough I don't know why it would be surprising that each would have it's supporters.

I'm just hoping a new HD DTivo does happen so at that point in time I can at least compare the features (and added fee) to the HR24 and then make a decision that's best for. If a new DTivo doesn't appear by Xmas likely I'll replace my sd DTivo with an HR24 and move on.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mccoady said:


> Exactly I've never figured this out why would you post here if you weren't sincerely interested in the progress of the new HD DTivo, it seems this thread is more of a platform for some to attack Tivo fans or try to convert/convince them that the HRxx's can do this or that better. The Gui/features are different enough I don't know why it would be surprising that each would have it's supporters.
> 
> I'm just hoping a new HD DTivo does happen so at that point in time I can at least compare the features (and added fee) to the HR24 and then make a decision that's best for. If a new DTivo doesn't appear by Xmas likely I'll replace my sd DTivo with an HR24 and move on.


Not piping in on the topic of TiVo itself, but the question of why others view this thread.

In the history of this topic, many times... when a user has posted "I love TiVo for feature X", it has often been then pointed out how to do the exact (or very similar) thing with the HR2* platform.

Just like a few posts ago, with the Double Play / DLB.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Much more often, Earl, fanboys respond to "I miss my TiVo" posts with things like "I hate TiVo for its simple, too-friendly interface," or "TiVo takes too long to process Season Pass Manager updates."

A helpful response is rare, at least from the fanboys.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

Lee L said:


> I know there are others who genuinely hate TiVo posting here, but as I have mentioned in the rest of the thread, I was (and still am, just with no tiVo boxes) a big TiVo fan. The reason I signed up for DirecTV in the first place was to get the TiVo HR10-250 when it was the first HD DVR. I preordered one about a year ahead of time and was one of the first couple of hundred people to get one.


The reason I signed up for DirecTV, in 1997, was because the receivers needed to connect to them were independent of DirecTV (you could get them from DirecTV also). You could get a Sony, Phillips, Panasonic, etc box and connect it to DirecTV. You could in effect choose your interface. When Sony came out with the SAT-T60 DirecTV DVR w/TiVo in 2000, I jumped on it and began replacing all of the receivers I had with them. Later, the HR10-250 came out but because the introductory price was $1000, I passed. It later became affordable for me to upgrade to it. I have owned HR20's for over 3 years and have, for the most part, been happy with them. I just bought/leased a HR24 and am very happy I have a black box in my living room. I think the HR series can keep up with the best of them (feature-wise), but I do miss the simplicity of the TiVo interface.


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## balboadave (Mar 3, 2010)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not piping in on the topic of TiVo itself, but the question of why others view this thread.
> 
> In the history of this topic, many times... when a user has posted "I love TiVo for feature X", it has often been then pointed out how to do the exact (or very similar) thing with the HR2* platform.
> 
> Just like a few posts ago, with the Double Play / DLB.


OK. I have over 300 season passes and wishlists on my 2 R10s. As I'm generally housebound, I'm able to keep up with all of them too. What can the HR2* platform do to match that?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Much more often, Earl, fanboys respond to "I miss my TiVo" posts with things like "I hate TiVo for its simple, too-friendly interface," or "TiVo takes too long to process Season Pass Manager updates."
> 
> A helpful response is rare, at least from the fanboys.


Then, the immature name calling starts from posters with obvious agendas.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

balboadave said:


> OK. I have over 300 season passes and wishlists on my 2 R10s. As I'm generally housebound, I'm able to keep up with all of them too. What can the HR2* platform do to match that?


Get 6 HRs. You asked.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

balboadave said:


> OK. I have over 300 season passes and wishlists on my 2 R10s. As I'm generally housebound, I'm able to keep up with all of them too. What can the HR2* platform do to match that?


Obviously you already know the answer to the question, or you wouldn't be asking it using the wording that you did.

And if that is the KEY important piece of a DVR experience to you, then the choice path is clear. So for you, the HR2* platform won't help, if you want just two systems.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Much more often, Earl, fanboys respond to "I miss my TiVo" posts with things like "I hate TiVo for its simple, too-friendly interface," or "TiVo takes too long to process Season Pass Manager updates."
> 
> A helpful response is rare, at least from the fanboys.


I disagree with that... for the most part at least.

If it is a user that is coming looking for an an answer to the problem, typically the answer has been given.

But what threads like this one, and similar ones in tone... it does get into fanboy vs fanboy flame wars... and that is where the passionate users on either side get at each other's throat.

If someone came on the board today, and asked: I did this with my TiVo, how can I do it with DIRECTV's boxes... the answer is usually given pretty straight forward and pretty quickly.

But it is when the question comes: I can't believe that the DIRECTV box can't do xyz, why not? that is an entirely different tone and conversation... which brings back the heated passion behind each side of the table.

The "I Miss My TiVo" comments, should include WHY?... why do you miss the TiVo... what aspect of it.
Just the blanket statement, then leads to the typical "reasons" and the conversations that have now gone on for almost 5 years (Since the R15 was introduced)... there is not much more a "mystery" on what the HR2* platform can do, and what the TiVo platform can do.

And the second "quote" that you included.... TiVo's "too-friendly interface"... is directly at the reason why these discussion go the path they do. The counter is also very true... there are TiVo "fanboys" that use the term that the HR2* interface is "non-friendly" or variations of that. They are different, and an objective look at both of them will show areas where they are both very human interface friendly, and areas where both of them can improve.

What often gets to be the case (as was mine 5 years ago, when I first tried the R15). It does a take a while to get used to a different interface (and that is true going either direction in the system bases)


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

Can the HR2* go 'beloop beloop' when I push buttons on my peanut? 

I am dreading the interface on the Dtv DVR, I hope it is better than it was a few years ago.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

H8tank said:


> Can the HR2* go 'beloop beloop' when I push buttons on my peanut?
> 
> I am dreading the interface on the Dtv DVR, I hope it is better than it was a few years ago.


Why did you dread it before? Was it the performance? Or was it the layout?

If it was the performance, then I would say that has been improved in the last few years. If it is the layout, then while there have been tweeks, in general it has not changed.

And yes, there are sound effects if you want them.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

Besides the mechanical issues we had with the equipment, the interface and such were not as intuitive as the Tivo in my opinion.

I have subscribed to Dtv w/NFL ticket since 1999, so I have a lot of butt time in front of different equipment over the years.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I disagree with that... for the most part at least.
> 
> If it is a user that is coming looking for an an answer to the problem, typically the answer has been given.
> 
> ...


Earl you make a lot of good points but what would you say to someone like me who prefers certain features that the HRxx doesn't offer like unlimited Season Passes (without adding another dvr), Tivo's search, list guide, deleted folder, and recordings that show rain fade to name a few. I've never tried a HRxx but I know I would severely miss these Tivo features particularly unlimited Season Passes (or at least 75) which would require me having two dvrs.


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## roger48 (May 12, 2010)

I just got two HR24's w/AM21's FREE as replacement for HR10-250s. Being a customer over 10 years may have helped.

Not a single audio problem. Maybe its YOUR audio receiver or how you're networked. I have DECA into D-LINK 625 Router that gets 6 mb/s from ATT dswl. I have a High End Yamaha receiver for my Audio. Will likely discontinue Whole Home DVR, as one DVR can't record to another, so not much benefit. I still prefer TiVo interface but the HR24s are far better than earlier models. Quieter too.

I read a rumor somewhere that TiVo might be a firmware upgrade on the HR24, almost believable as thats how Cox got TiVo in Boston, a firmware upgrade on their boxes.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

H8tank said:


> Besides the mechanical issues we had with the equipment, the interface and such were not as intuitive as the Tivo in my opinion.


It's really just what you're used to. The HR2x interface is actually very intuitive, at least it was for my wife.
Push the List button to see your recorded programs.
Push record button in the guide to record.

All pretty easy. Just might take you a couple weeks to get to know the ins and outs but the basics are all right there and easy to find and access.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

roger48 said:


> I read a rumor somewhere that TiVo might be a firmware upgrade on the HR24


False. It has been stated in SEC filings that DirecTV Tivo STBs will be Tivo-branded.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mccoady said:


> Earl you make a lot of good points but what would you say to someone like me who prefers certain features that the HRxx doesn't offer like unlimited Season Passes (without adding another dvr), Tivo's search, list guide, deleted folder, and recordings that show rain fade to name a few. I've never tried a HRxx but I know I would severely miss these Tivo features particularly unlimited Season Passes (or at least 75) which would require me having two dvrs.


I would say:

Season passes: Are there any that you can combine, or maintain as season end? If not, and that was your key point, then sorry the hr systystem are not for you

TiVo search: what define's tiro search? Is it swivel search? The cast and crew may help with that. Is it it something similar to directv's new smart search? Will the Boolean logic functions help with your search? If not, sorry hr system is not for you

Deleted folder: I would say, nope don't have it. But then ask, how many times will you accidentally delete something when the system makes you confirm the delete? How many times have you caught that deleted program before the deleted folder cleans it up? If it happens frequently, unless you change your usage pattern to pause a second before you delete, sorry hr series is not for you

List guide: will the channel listing work for you? Highlight the channel number and hit info? It provides the same list guide style, but for a single channel. However to go to another channel, you will have to back out and select the next channel. So not the same, but could serve the purpose. If not, sorry the hr series is not for you.

Rain fade: the hr series does record partials, it just does not flag itermideiate break ups as a partial. If rain fade happens that often, you may want to tweak your dish. Else, sorry. If that is a critical feature the hr series is not for you

I would then ask, would having mrv help with conflicts and your series link limit? Would that $5 a month be worth be worth a second system? If I recall mho was one of the #1 hacked features of the r10 series. Would you benefit from that?

I would ask would the overlap re or ding on the same tuner be something that is worth it? Or the dod? Or the HD? Or the 90 minute buffer, and 90 dual live buffer?

But at the end of the day, if those TiVo features are a must, I would wish you the best and hope your hardware continues in good health


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Rain fade: the hr series does record partials, it just does not flag itermideiate break ups as a partial.


Earl, you mean this in the list, right or in the banner. I know when I had a tree issue this spring when I started a few recordings, I got a notice saying that the recordings were missing some time as partials. They were not listed as such in the description or the list but every time I started to play them, I got the popup notice. So the system does tell you.

Rather than thinking I am correcting a DirecTV employee on features of your DVR, I think I am pointing out semantics...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Earl, you mean this in the list, right or in the banner. I know when I had a tree issue this spring when I started a few recordings, I got a notice saying that the recordings were missing some time as partials. They were not listed as such in the description or the list but every time I started to play them, I got the popup notice. So the system does tell you.
> 
> Rather than thinking I am correcting a DirecTV employee on features of your DVR, I think I am pointing out semantics...


It has been a very very long time since I have had a partial recording, that wasn't a result of someone stoping it at the end. So I haven't seen that particular screen. (I couldn't even tell you when the last time it happened)

It is okay to correct me... I would never say I know the system 100%, especially now that my focus is in several other areas as well. I do my best to keep up, and probably do know 95%+ of the system, but I am sure there are a few things that I don't know.


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## BHYDE-1 (Nov 2, 2007)

I've followed the recent threads with interest. I have a Series 3 Tivo, a Tivo Premiere, and two DirecTV HD-DVRs, the HR20 and HR21. The new HD interface for the Tivo is still a little clunky - too slow, but hopefully Tivo will fix that. Even so, the Tivo software and interface remains easier to use and follow, but the DVR interface is just fine also. The new DECA is certainly a better multiroom viewing solution than what Tivo offers. 

Still, I find that in my family when we have a choice of watching something on the Tivo or the DirecTV DVR, the Tivo always gets chosen, either for live or recorded viewing. THe extra number of season passes may be one of the reasons, but it isn't the only one.

DirecTV has done a lot to improve what were once glaring deficiencies compared to Tivo, such as being able to switch back and forth seamlessly between two live shows being recorded; and you simply don't read anymore, like you did some years ago, about the DirecTV DVRs not working properly. Both types of DVRs work well now.

I realize this is awfully picky, but the DirecTV remote gives me a lot of problems - the buttons are much harder to find in the dark at night while in bed than the Tivo ones. But if I'm watching DirecTV, I find that I am frequently clicking the wrong button if I'm in the dark.

I can hardly wait until the DirecTV HD Tivo is ready. Because, when all is said and done, and even though the HR20 and HR21 are fine machines, I love my Tivo!


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## balboadave (Mar 3, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> Get 6 HRs. You asked.


You jest, but don't think I haven't considered it. Budget is not a problem for me. But it still doesn't address the wishlists. Maybe I'll settle for 3.



Earl Bonovich said:


> Obviously you already know the answer to the question, or you wouldn't be asking it using the wording that you did.
> And if that is the KEY important piece of a DVR experience to you, then the choice path is clear.
> 
> So for you, the HR2* platform won't help, if you want just two systems.


It's not that I know the answer, but it is the conclusion from the research I've done. I'm just hoping that there was an answer or workaround I missed.

I am equally a TiVo and DirecTV fan. If I had access to every cable system there is, I would still choose D*, and due to my viewing habits, the TiVo experience is unbeatable. When their alliance was re-established, I've held out on upgrading to HD thinking there would be a timely new product. Well, not only has that been stretched out to years, now the best available information says it will be another six months at the earliest. And then D* went ahead and introduced an extremely enticing Whole Home solution on top of the very well reviewed HR24. I guess I'm just trying to figure what I'll miss in the conversion, and as you emphasize, if what I miss is all that important.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

The only thing I REALLY miss from the Tivo are Wishlists!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BHYDE-1 said:


> I realize this is awfully picky, but the DirecTV remote gives me a lot of problems - the buttons are much harder to find in the dark at night while in bed than the Tivo ones. But if I'm watching DirecTV, I find that I am frequently clicking the wrong button if I'm in the dark.


While over the last 5 years, I know the remote pretty well. Even in the dark.
I use the BackLit version in my bedroom. Just makes it easier in the dark.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

kevinturcotte said:


> The only thing I REALLY miss from the Tivo are Wishlists!


Its the list style guide for me.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ffemtreed said:


> Its the list style guide for me.


As noted above, have you tried highlighting the channel number and hitting INFO?

It is not a complete replacement, but for a single channel it does give you the entire 14 days listing.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As noted above, have you tried highlighting the channel number and hitting INFO?
> 
> It is not a complete replacement, but for a single channel it does give you the entire 14 days listing.


yes, I do that but it loads so SLOW to be effective. The main problem with the guide is that it doesn't show enough channels at one time.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I would say:
> 
> Season passes: Are there any that you can combine, or maintain as season end? If not, and that was your key point, then sorry the hr systystem are not for you
> 
> ...


I have said it before, the HR software has come very close to catching up to the Tivo software I remember on my last DirecTivo box. The HR24 is the first box/software combination I would grade better than a C. A grade of B- to Tivo's A-. The first HR hardware software I had was clearly a D-, barely passable.

I would like to point out my feelings on your posts. They seem to me that you are advocating the HR box with its work arounds as OK. You and I, along with many users of this forum, are very special geeks. We tinker. We open our boxes. We hack our systems. We participate in betas. Steve and I knocked out the rules for the keyword recordings with the help of many others in this forum. Do you think my 70 year father knows how to do it? Workarounds are never good in a consumer product. These boxes should just work. They should be simple. They should fade into the background. At the bottom line of this discussion is the fact that the consumer really does not give a flip about DirecTv or Tivo or any other piece of middleware. We are consumers of the content. As weird as this sounds, the provider who can get as far out of the way of that content and fade in the background the most will be the choice of the average consumer. The providers know this when they advertise most HD for the money. They don't tell us in detail about the really neat SWiM or DECA implementations. If I wanted a hobby, I would have a Linux FrankenDVR hooked up to my TV. At this point, I have put my money in the HR corner. So I hope they will provide this for me. But if Tivo does it better and still provides MVR, I will switch. Frankly, if a cable co comes into my neighborhood that provides this content for less with a better interface, I would go that route too.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

oldfantom said:


> I would like to point out my feelings on your posts. They seem to me that you are advocating the HR box with its work arounds as OK. You and I, along with many users of this forum, are very special geeks. We tinker. We open our boxes. We hack our systems. We participate in betas. Steve and I knocked out the rules for the keyword recordings with the help of many others in this forum. Do you think my 70 year father knows how to do it? Workarounds are never good in a consumer product. These boxes should just work. They should be simple. They should fade into the background. At the bottom line of this discussion is the fact that the consumer really does not give a flip about DirecTv or Tivo or any other piece of middleware. We are consumers of the content. As weird as this sounds, the provider who can get as far out of the way of that content and fade in the background the most will be the choice of the average consumer. The providers know this when they advertise most HD for the money. They don't tell us in detail about the really neat SWiM or DECA implementations. If I wanted a hobby, I would have a Linux FrankenDVR hooked up to my TV. At this point, I have put my money in the HR corner. So I hope they will provide this for me. But if Tivo does it better and still provides MVR, I will switch. Frankly, if a cable co comes into my neighborhood that provides this content for less with a better interface, I would go that route too.


And I would say... they do work.

My mom, who is about as technically illeterate as it comes... can work the HR series... with little help from me. My daughter who is 2, knows how to find Sesame Street and start the playback.

In general, the core functionallity of the HR series is just as simple and easy to use as a TiVo... and I have multiple years of experience with both.

Sure the Search Advanced Boolean options are more "tech", but that is why they are "advanced" search options. And I wouldn't even classify it as a work around. It is a feature.

Highlight the channel number and hitting list, isn't advanced... isn't hard to do. Starting double play with the down arrow, again, not hard to do.

Hitting list, to bring up your play list, hitting select to open a folder, and hitting play to start a recording... again... not hard to do.

Hitting guide, hitting up and down, left/right to find programs in the guide... then select to open or record button to record... not that hard either.

Menu to bring up a menu...

Obivisously if you are familiar with one way of doing something for a long time... it is going to be difficult to switch and change to a different way. That goes for anything, not just DVRs.

I would argue that the HR series has surpassed TiVo in several areas, while in some areas it has not.. that is what makes products different from one another. Very Very rarely do you ever find two products, two implementations that are identical. There are always differences, and typically always something one implementation does better then the other.

As I have said many times over... nearly everybody has multiple choices when it comes to their entertainment source. If one fits your overal needs better, then as a consumer that is the route you should go.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> In general, the core functionallity of the HR series is just as simple and easy to use as a TiVo... and I have multiple years of experience with both.


Gotta agree with Earl here. I have shown both GUIs to people who have never used a DVR before and they thing the DirecTV one to be more intuitive. Probably because it is more like internet browsers (pick something and click on it) and computer systems (menu driven).

Tivo, while revolutionary when it started, has a GUI that is unlike anything else and can be counterintuitive to some. A good friend (who I gave my HD Tivo to in hopes he would use it for OTA when I went to Fios) told me that the Tivo GUI was completely counter-intuitive (he is a computer geek and RF engineer) because, as he said, "Who would think that the right arrow would mean select?" (Before you say, you can use the select key, he was running setup and sometimes you cannot use select and have to use the right arrow.)



Earl Bonovich said:


> Sure the Search Advanced Boolean options are more "tech", but that is why they are "advanced" search options. And I wouldn't even classify it as a work around. It is a feature.


This one makes me laugh because of my own perspective. I loved Tivo wishlists and even like the backdoor ones that existed on the old DirecTivo until they spiked it. I got used to the Boolean of the HR2x series. Then I added the HD Tivo and the new wishlists still perplex me. I found them utterly confusing and I know I never got good at using them effectively, only in the simplest terms. Too many screens to do things like add an OR function...I would get lost. But I laugh mostly at myself, because while there are few GUIs I cannot navigate, I tend to be more command line driven than point and click.

But the wishlist comparison between the Tivo and the HR2x makes me wonder if a lot of people who are pining for the Tivo are thinking of the old Tivo and do not even know what is on the current ones. Wishlists, for sure, are as complicated as the HR2x autosearches if you go beyond "find the Simpsons."


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

People going over the top to try and explain how 'easy' the HR is to operate compared to a tivo... sound like a salesman trying to talk me into a Ford Escape instead of a Honda Accord.

I wish I could remember all the things I didn't like about the previous HR2* I had... when I got rid of it I swore never again. Stupid precious HD NFL!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

H8tank said:


> People going over the top to try and explain how 'easy' the HR is to operate compared to a tivo... sound like a salesman trying to talk me into a Ford Escape instead of a Honda Accord.
> 
> I wish I could remember all the things I didn't like about the previous HR2* I had... when I got rid of it I swore never again. Stupid precious HD NFL!


So...what's been posted is incorrect?

Mike


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

H8tank said:


> People going over the top to try and explain how 'easy' the HR is to operate compared to a tivo...


What define's over the top, when you are simply explaining how it works? and how to do something?

I mean when it take 1 button press to open the playlist... I am not sure how you could say it in any other way, that doesn't make it sound easy ?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

H8tank said:


> People going over the top to try and explain how 'easy' the HR is to operate compared to a tivo... sound like a salesman trying to talk me into a Ford Escape instead of a Honda Accord.
> 
> I wish I could remember all the things I didn't like about the previous HR2* I had... when I got rid of it I swore never again. Stupid precious HD NFL!


Well, when you are dealing with the idealized view of Tivo that has festered in some minds, you have to be clear.

Tivo was the greatest thing...when it started. They have not kept up their leading ways and have become one more of the pack. They do things well, they do things poorly. They have made many missteps (who hasn't?).

Tivo is a very fine DVR but it is not the best one out there anymore. It is pretty much head to head with a lot of them. But after going through the pain of using an HD Tivo on a non-cooperative system (Comcast), I gave up and decided to go with the Fios DVR when I went Fios. While the Fios DVR is nowhere near the Tivo, it is good enough to do what it does. Even the worst DVRs have caught up quite a bit to Tivo. No matter what Tivoholics will say. (I still exclude the POS Comcast Scientific Atlanta box...that thing is terrible).

Maybe Tivo properly integrated into DirecTV again will be a good thing but I go so tired of the Tivo not knowing what the channels were when I was on Comcast, not having the ability to use things I paid my Comcast bill for (like on Demand, etc.) and having a bunch of things I hardly ever used (I have Netflix on the far better Roku as well as Amazon, etc.). It was not worth it.

Tivo may seem like nirvana but it is a fake religion. Want to discuss what it actually does well without hype (BTW, to me, the Tivoholics are the ones selling me the Ford Escape...I had both in house at the same time...I am not fooled by hyperbole), fine. But even that is for naught until we see what the DirecTivo (if it ever happens) does. All else is speculation.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

H8tank said:


> People going over the top to try and explain how 'easy' the HR is to operate compared to a tivo.


I don't think anyone is really saying that the HR2x is *easier* then a Tivo in terms of operation. What people are saying in general is that the HR2x is just as easy to use. Very easy in fact. Despite what some people post that "it's so hard and confusing".

In the end it's all what you are used to and personal preference. But both the Tivo and HR2x GUI are easy to use. People were asking for examples of the easy of use on the HR2x and thus were given some.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> yes, I do that but it loads so SLOW to be effective.


What's slow about it? It never took more then 2 seconds for it to load up for me on either my HR20-700 or HR21-200 (which was generally slower then the HR20-700). And with one touch record I could fly thru a dozen movie channels and set a couple dozen movies to record in just a couple minutes. Much faster and easier then on a Tivo which in the same amount of time I might get a few movies set to record after going thru several menu's for each recording setup.

Not saying that the Tivo guide isn't good. I loved it too. But I got over it and found the HR2x way to actually be much faster to setup recordings.

To each his own...


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

I always thought I would miss my Tivo box but there is no way I would go back to them now D* really has done a great job with their boxes and looking forward to getting my MRV up and running with my new HR 24 500


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> What's slow about it? It never took more then 2 seconds for it to load up for me on either my HR20-700 or HR21-200 (which was generally slower then the HR20-700). And with one touch record I could fly thru a dozen movie channels and set a couple dozen movies to record in just a couple minutes. Much faster and easier then on a Tivo which in the same amount of time I might get a few movies set to record after going thru several menu's for each recording setup.
> 
> Not saying that the Tivo guide isn't good. I loved it too. But I got over it and found the HR2x way to actually be much faster to setup recordings.
> 
> To each his own...


What is slow is having to scroll all the way back to the current time and then press left one more time then press info then waiting a couple seconds for the data to populate. I never timed it but it sure took longer than 2 seconds on all my HRs. Then when you want to go to the next channel you have to exit the list style press scroll down to the next channel and again wait a few seconds to load. Its VERY cumbersome to do this. With the TIVO I can just press the down arrow and it would go to the next channel and pop up all the data within a second. Again my main problem with the guide it that it only shows a very limited number of channels at a time and only shows like an hour and half of upcoming data, then they went ahead and slowed it down even more and took up more space with ads. Why couldn't they put one scrolling ad at the bottom of the screen or under the title bar if they wanted ads so bad? Having them in the guide made an already weak spot on the DVR even worse.

I don't have the privilege of having an HR24 but the HR 21 and 22 that I do have the guide is dog slow and a real pain to use. Yes it has gotten 10 times faster than 2 years ago, but its still DOG slow!

Someone at DTV needs to go to guide design school because even their online guide is an absolute nightmare to use. Someone at D just doesn't get it.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And I would say... they do work.
> 
> My mom, who is about as technically illeterate as it comes... can work the HR series... with little help from me. My daughter who is 2, knows how to find Sesame Street and start the playback.
> 
> ...


Earl, I concede that the HR is better than it used to be. My memory of Tivo is a memory and may not represent reality. Familiarity with a system does help. Reading the tricks in the forums is also a plus.

Frankly, I don't care which product is better. I don't work for either company nor own stock. I want the best system with the most features for a palatable cost. I do find the statements that the 50 series limit is not an issue because there is an advanced search and mvr and the ability to add or remove programs to be completely inadequate. I don't watch a lot of scify. I watch Eureka. I have to know when it starts it summer season so I can get a series link set up after deleting some of my fall series links to make it fit. In what non-marketing world is that acceptable? A lot of the cable shows are on split seasons. Dealing with that is a pain. In case you missed the finer point, I am down to one complaint as far as features. There are bugs (audio drop outs) that make me want to chunk the system, but I would expect Tivo bugs as well.

I don't expect either system to be same, nor perfect. But the HR platform and D* have problems and the one missing feature that will make me continue to search for better ways to get my content. My point here is that I don't feel like a work around is a solution and I will not be content with "it is better than it was"


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> What is slow is having to scroll all the way back to the current time and then press left one more time then press info then waiting a couple seconds for the data to populate.


Just press the red button a few times, and you'll be back at the current time.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> What is slow is having to scroll all the way back to the current time and then press left one more time then press info then waiting a couple seconds for the data to populate. I never timed it but it sure took longer than 2 seconds on all my HRs. Then when you want to go to the next channel you have to exit the list style press scroll down to the next channel and again wait a few seconds to load. Its VERY cumbersome to do this. With the TIVO I can just press the down arrow and it would go to the next channel and pop up all the data within a second.


I certainly don't remember it being all that to go thru several channels. I remember hitting Exit (or maybe it was the back button), down arrow to next channel, hit Info again, wait a couple seconds and boom...one touch record the next 2 weeks of guide data. Exit, down arrow, info....rinse and repeat.

But you're forgetting the actual setting the recordings thing. It takes a LOT longer on a Tivo to set a recording and it is cumbersome vs. just one button press on the HR2x. Once you add it up it's a lot faster on the HR2x to setup a bunch of recordings, just differing ways to do it.

I guess if all you care about is live TV then the Tivo way is faster. But why would you care what's on in 2 hours and not record it?

Anyway, just some differing perspective is all.


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## Tony Chick (Aug 24, 2006)

I've had DirecTivos since they first came out and HR20s since the first MP4 channels came online so I've seen the HR develop from early days. I'm now reluctantly transitioning back to cable so I got a Tivo Premiere and am running it and the HR20 in parallel for now. I'm finding the Tivo a frustrating experience and not what I remember, some of that may be because of the current hybrid HD/SD UI. The biggest issue is trying to setup my Harmony One remote to control Tivo which highlights the inconsistency of the UI and the fact that they double up some functions on the remote.

As an example on the HR20 I can always press Back to get back to what I was previously doing. On the Tivo, if I'm watching Live TV and I press Menu ("Tivo") to get to the new HD menu with PIP, in order to get back to full screen video I have to press Zoom, but once back the Zoom button then becomes Aspect. If I'm in the guide and want to get back to full screen I have to press Guide again. If I'm in a lower-level SD menu, I have to press left-arrow to get back. Not consistent. 

All in all I find the current HR interface easier since it works the same wherever I am in the UI, it just seems better thought out while the Tivo Premiere feels like a collection of sub-systems that each follow their own rules.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Tony Chick said:


> All in all I find the current HR interface easier since it works the same wherever I am in the UI, it just seems better thought out while the Tivo Premiere feels like a collection of sub-systems that each follow their own rules.


I had hope that they would clean that up with the Premiere since they were sort of starting over, but they released a premature product from what I can gather. (They are not the first nor will they be the last.)

The Tivo GUI had become that with the HD Tivo largely because they were bolting on new capabilities (Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, new searches, etc.) onto the standard Tivo structure. It became bewildering on how different each area functioned.

They need to redo the whole thing top to bottom, and not just for the Premiere.

(But then again, I never got over the down arrow not activating the second tuner on the HD.)


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

> I always thought I would miss my Tivo box but there is no way I would go back to them now D* really has done a great job with their boxes


I read this and get excited!



> What is slow is having to scroll all the way back to the current time and then press left one more time then press info then waiting a couple seconds for the data to populate. I never timed it but it sure took longer than 2 seconds on all my HRs. Then when you want to go to the next channel you have to exit the list style press scroll down to the next channel and again wait a few seconds to load. Its VERY cumbersome to do this. With the TIVO I can just press the down arrow and it would go to the next channel and pop up all the data within a second. Again my main problem with the guide it that it only shows a very limited number of channels at a time and only shows like an hour and half of upcoming data, then they went ahead and slowed it down even more and took up more space with ads. Why couldn't they put one scrolling ad at the bottom of the screen or under the title bar if they wanted ads so bad? Having them in the guide made an already weak spot on the DVR even worse.


Then I read this and it starts to remind me of past angst... plus ads? Don't tell me the Dtv DVR has ads on the menu's??? :eek2:

Listen, I promise to reserve final judgement until I get the HR24 and try it out... but I will admit I am not very optimistic about it.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

H8tank said:


> I read this and get excited!
> 
> Then I read this and it starts to remind me of past angst... plus ads? Don't tell me the Dtv DVR has ads on the menu's??? :eek2:
> 
> Listen, I promise to reserve final judgement until I get the HR24 and try it out... but I will admit I am not very optimistic about it.


don't take my annoyance with one feature of the HR series as my overall attitude towards them. They are very good receivers and have many useful features that the TIVO doesn't. Yes the put adds in the channel guide but if you do a custom guide and take the channel right above the AD out you can wipe the ads out of your guide. I made a custom channel list that just has the channels with ads associated with them and another channel list with all the other channels I might watch.

When it comes time for me to break down and extend my contract I won't hesitate to buy an HR series unless the tivo really has some new features. DTV will probably strip down all the useful features of the TIVO anyway.


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I would say:
> 
> Season passes: Are there any that you can combine, or maintain as season end? If not, and that was your key point, then sorry the hr systystem are not for you
> 
> ...


Season Passes: I have 80 some that include not only network series but also many cable series that come and go during a single season so yeah a 50 limit season pass is a big issue to me (having two dvrs has been suggested as a workaround).

Tivo Search: Now maybe I have this all wrong but my understanding is if you did a search (with a HRxx) for say a program on HBO 501 the search result would not show when it was on all the other HBO channels. Is this correct?

Deleted folder: Now this may sound unimportant to a lot of people but I find myself using it a lot. Many times I have knowingly deleted something but then decided I wanted to watch it again or maybe something happened in a tv episode I wanted to go back and check it out, surprisingly very handy to have. So it's usually not about accidently deleting a program.

List Guide: The reason I like the list guide is when I bring up the guide you immediately can view 8 listings for each channel I'm always scrolling through the guide to see what's on and it just so convenient. I understand the HRxx will give you a list guide but not without selecting each channel first and then info so I suppose it's similar. Another thing I like about Tivo's guide is you can go back in time.

Rain fade: Kind of an important feature since I live in the midwest and we have a lot of storms. It's saved me more than once alerting me (glancing at the recording) that I need to try to re-record a program rather than setting down to watch it and finding out I didn't get the whole thing.

I really wouldn't be interested in mrv but might be forced to have two dvr's to get around the season pass limit though unless the new Tivo comes through.

Yes I'm very interested in HD but as far as the HRxx's 90 minute buffer I would gladly trade it for a always live dlb but that's just me. I think it would be nice if Tivo's buffer was longer than 30 minutes but it's no big deal I've always got along fine.

Anyway Earl thanks for your input and suggestions!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

H8tank said:


> Then I read this and it starts to remind me of past angst... plus ads? Don't tell me the Dtv DVR has ads on the menu's??? :eek2:


No. That would be Tivo.

The HR2x's have single line ads for PPV and services like the French Open in a few places on the guide. I see only one on a regular basis. I think of them more as programming selections rather than ads. There are ZERO ads elsewhere and the "ads" are only for DirecTV products. No cars, no watches, no electronics. (Again, that is what Tivo does.)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mccoady said:


> Tivo Search: Now maybe I have this all wrong but my understanding is if you did a search (with a HRxx) for say a program on HBO 501 the search result would not show when it was on all the other HBO channels. Is this correct?


It would be correct, if you include the specific CCHAN 501 command... if you don't add that special commend to lock the search to channe 501, it will search accross all channels.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> No cars, no watches, no electronics. (Again, that is what Tivo does.)


And don't forget ads when you pause on a Tivo. :lol:


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## Joseph Blowinsky (May 6, 2008)

balboadave said:


> You jest, but don't think I haven't considered it. Budget is not a problem for me. But it still doesn't address the wishlists. Maybe I'll settle for 3.
> 
> It's not that I know the answer, but it is the conclusion from the research I've done. I'm just hoping that there was an answer or workaround I missed.


A little background, I started out with a standalone Tivo, upgraded to the first DirecTivo's, eventually to the HR10-250's and now have HR21's and HR20s only..

The Tivo's and the HR's are just different, I am/was a huge Tivo fan, but I've very happy with the HR* DVRs current state..

I have a couple of friends who are holding onto their HR10-250's and have been waiting for years for the *new* DirecTV Tivo to come out..

Some folks dig in their heels and there's no convincing them, so I've given up 

One point of advice to the folks who have lots and lots of Season Passes (Tivo) or Series Links (HR) .. I had a huge problem with the Series Link limitations of the HR DVRs, MRV is helping solve that..

Another thing that can help others with the Series Link limit (not very intuitive that it would) are the Autorecord Smart Searches..

I'm an MMA junkie and had something like 15 Series Links for various MMA shows on my HR DVRs.. I now have a single Autorecord Smart Search that has replaced all 15 of those series links:

AALL MARTIAL ARTS NNOT MOVIE KIDS PPV & Sports, Martial Arts

For folks who might have lots of Series Links on the regular big networks, folks in the "Advanced SEARCH/AUTORECORD" have started using combined keyword Autorecord Searches to replace multiple series links..

Syzygy had listed these as examples:

AANY Bang CSI Flashpoint Ghost NCIS TTITLE CCHAN 4 
AANY Half Medium Mentalist Minds 60 TTITLE CCHAN 4
AANY Cold Numb3rs Rivers Trauma TTITLE CCHAN 4
AANY Intent Monk Plain TTITLE CCHAN 242

So anyway, I know this is sort of off topic, but for other former (or current) Tivo fans, you can have lots and lots of recordings set up with the Series Link limits.. not sure you'll be able to get up to the 300 Season Passes on the one Tivo, but you might be able to get close 

Here's a link to the thread I'm referencing if anyone has missed it:
Advanced SEARCH/AUTORECORD Help & Discussion


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Not to be too argumentative, but something always bothers me about the 50 series limit. Let me start by saying that it is a significant design flaw. Period. I am not making excuses for DirecTV on one of the two dumbest design decisions in the HR2x line (the other was press and hold for slow-motion).

It is exceptionally difficult to have more than 50 series scheduled without a considerable number of them in conflict most of the time. If all primetime shows were 30 minutes and you used both tuners at all times each weeknight during primetime, you would end up with 60 series.

As I said, I hate that limit from a design perspective. When it first cropped up, it was not a real concern because I had nowhere near that number of series. But the networks (cable and broadcast) have changed the way they program. They are interleaving different shows more now than ever. The same timeslot often belongs to three completely different shows in one year now (fall for show A, switching to show B late fall while show A is on hiatus, back to show A, and show C over the summer).

The networks are cancelling or pseudo-cancelling (long hiatus while they decide if they will air the remainder of seasons) many more shows than before. They are not airing reruns the way they did when this platform was designed. While I attribute this shift in behavior as the primary reason the 50 series limit is now more of a problem, it is DirecTV's problem to fix. 

I will say, however, that the roving timeslots makes conflict resolution considerably more difficult. In short, you might need the extra two tuners of a second DVR just to ensure that anything more than 50 series are consistently recorded. I think this applies, realistically, to Tivo as much as it does to HR2x.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I am not making excuses for DirecTV on one of the two dumbest design decisions in the HR2x line (the other was press and hold for slow-motion).


Amen on the parentheses.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Joseph Blowinsky said:


> Syzygy had listed these as examples:
> 
> AANY Bang CSI Flashpoint Ghost NCIS TTITLE CCHAN 4
> AANY Half Medium Mentalist Minds 60 TTITLE CCHAN 4
> ...


Can someone confirm if this Advanced Search feature has been fixed? Somewhere in the last couple of national updates, the system stopped honoring the first run only. So if I have a series that I don't watch in the fall, but record all season to watch in the summer, I may end up with repeats in my data that eat hard drive space and I don't notice until June. i stopped using these advanced search options this season.

Speaking of hard drive eaters, the bug that made my HR record an hour long show for eight hours really was a bummer. I carried 14 hours of junk for six months. I know that is a random shot, and is now fixed. Sorry for being unfair to the HR.

As noted by others in the previous posts, the time shifting cable networks and my desire to watch first run content all year long (I never watch repeats anymore) really make this a big deal. I have three DVRs I am paying for the SWiM DECA upgrade to deal with this shortcoming. So how much does the 50 series limit cost in real dollars? My forehead reads "sucker". I am by no means "satisfied" with D* and their offerings. If Tivo is better, I will gladly box up these DVR's and the 10 or so remotes I have accumulated and send them back to D*. If I ever get a decent cable company, I will happily pull my dish off the roof.

If you go back and read my posts over the years, you will find (1) a complete disregard for spelling and grammar and (2) a definite change in my tone. I am definitely coming to the conclusion based upon my personal experience that this is a less and less attractive partnership I have with D*. I think that there systems require far too many workarounds for basic functions (trick play to get the audio back anyone?), workarounds for my viewing habits (multiple DVRs for my series). Slow to market content. Frankly, this thread has gotten me more riled up towards D*.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> What's slow about it? It never took more then 2 seconds for it to load up for me on either my HR20-700 or HR21-200 (which was generally slower then the HR20-700). And with one touch record I could fly thru a dozen movie channels and set a couple dozen movies to record in just a couple minutes. Much faster and easier then on a Tivo which in the same amount of time I might get a few movies set to record after going thru several menu's for each recording setup.
> 
> Not saying that the Tivo guide isn't good. I loved it too. But I got over it and found the HR2x way to actually be much faster to setup recordings.
> 
> To each his own...


last night I timed how long it took to bring up the data from when I pressed the info button. it averaged 6 seconds on my HR21-100 and 7 Seconds on my HR22-100.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

kevinturcotte said:


> The only thing I REALLY miss from the Tivo are Wishlists!





ffemtreed said:


> Its the list style guide for me.


Very short list of what I *really *miss from the TiVo:

• Of course, unlimited Season Passes/Wishlists.
• Next, a plain, basic Search that actually finds all possible matches over the full 11 days, and doesn't constantly try to sell me VOD, PPV, and channels I don't get.
• Finally, reliability. By which I mean not having to babysit the DVR to make sure it doesn't refuse to record something at the last minute.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

> • Finally, reliability. By which I mean not having to babysit the DVR to make sure it doesn't refuse to record something at the last minute.


For real! I remember on the Dtv DVDR once I had bought a UFC fight and set it to record while I was out, I came home at 2am amped up to watch my fights, and some BS crap my chick had in her season pass overrode the PPV and it didn't record.

I was flabbergasted when the Dtv rep said this was normal UNLESS I WENT IN AND MADE THE PPV PRIORITY over the season pass. That is a buncha crap. I know I am gonna hate this stupid DVR.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

H8tank said:


> For real! I remember on the Dtv DVDR once I had bought a UFC fight and set it to record while I was out, I came home at 2am amped up to watch my fights, and some BS crap my chick had in her season pass overrode the PPV and it didn't record.
> 
> I was flabbergasted when the Dtv rep said this was normal UNLESS I WENT IN AND MADE THE PPV PRIORITY over the season pass. That is a buncha crap. I know I am gonna hate this stupid DVR.


I never had that happen. Anytime I manually set a recording and it overlaps with a season pass the HR DVR's ask what you want to do immediately when you tell the other program to record. I think the HR's actually handle this situation better than tivo. Actually the HR takes this a step further and if you cancel a recording of a season pass and it can figure out that same episode is on at a later date it will automatically search and record that later show of the recording you canceled.

I would guess in your case someone in your house specifically told the box not to record your show.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

oldfantom said:


> Can someone confirm if this Advanced Search feature has been fixed? Somewhere in the last couple of national updates, the system stopped honoring the first run only. So if I have a series that I don't watch in the fall, but record all season to watch in the summer, I may end up with repeats in my data that eat hard drive space and I don't notice until June. i stopped using these advanced search options this season.
> ...


I am about 75% sure that this is fixed. I haven't seen it in a while, and I'm pretty sure the CSI's went through a run of repeats in the last month or two. However, I have not specifically thought about that bug, so I may just not have noticed. (I'll know for sure next week, now that the first run season is over.)


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

DogLover said:


> I am about 75% sure that this is fixed.


I have this ARSL: *AANY Bang CSI Flashpoint Ghost NCIS TTITLE CCHAN 4* -- with "& Show Types, Series" appended and marked First Run Only.

It's recording 14 out of the 15 upcoming shows, all but one of which (a _Flashpoint_) are reruns. Of the 13 reruns being recorded, 10 are CSIs: LV, NY, Miami.

The only rerun not scheduled to record is a _CSI: Miami_ that I cancelled myself. (Note, however, that my cancelling a show in an ARSL bucket is often vetoed by my HR21.)

Now that it's rerun season, I'll replace the above ARSL with a regular SL for _Flashpoint. _Regular SLs don't record reruns unless you say so.

So, NO. *The bug* introduced by 0x034c last September *is still there* in 0x03a8.

P.S. -- By removing *all *ARSLs in favor of a few new SLs and deleting old SLs for shows that aren't on right now, I've reduced my SL count to 23. Let's see if that reduces my box's response latency. _[edit] The results are in: If anything, response is more sluggish than it was._


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## mccoady (Jul 28, 2008)

Since I've always had a DTivo I've not paid much attention to this issue but what is the reasoning behind a 50 series limit on the HRxx's?

Is it possible that since the Hr24 seems to be more advanced than past receivers this limit could eventually be fazed out, or do you think DTV is content to make you use mrv or lease two receivers to get around it?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> • Next, a plain, basic Search that actually finds all possible matches over the full 11 days, and doesn't constantly try to sell me VOD, PPV, and channels I don't get.


Oh, my. You may be disappointed when Tivo does release. The Tivo Search is quite a bit like the new DirecTV search. It finds Amazon, Netflix, Bollywood and all other kinds of stuff. Gee, if you could only put into the search something like NNOT PPV. Oh, wait... 

BTW, as for reliability. I have said this before and will say it again. My HR2xs were more reliable, recording more programs than my HD Tivo, recording only a few items a week, over the extended time period I was running both side by side. Part of this was the bad coordination between the cable system and the Tivo data but a lot of it was that the damned Tivo loved to reboot at the oddest times.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Oh, my. You may be disappointed when Tivo does release. The Tivo Search is quite a bit like the new DirecTV search. It finds Amazon, Netflix, Bollywood and all other kinds of stuff. Gee, if you could only put into the search something like NNOT PPV. Oh, wait...


Red herring (from a TiVo hater, I suppose).

I downloaded the PDF for the _TiVo Premiere Viewer's Guide_ and read that:

As always, you can maintain two channel lists: Channels You Receive and Favorite Channels.

If you're using TiVo with HD menus, you can use the _Video Provider List_ to select the video providers (like Netflix, Blockbuster, or Amazon) that you would like included in your results when browsing and searching:
*• Find TV, movies, & on demand >> Search*

If you're using TiVo with SD menus (like the new DirecTiVo will be, I expect), you have two kinds of searches:
*• Find Programs >> Search by Title* - searches only Channels You Receive.
*• Find Programs >> Swivel Search* - includes both broadcast shows and shows that are available through your broadband Internet connection (web videos and VOD offerings).

So it looks like you might not be able to exclude VOD programs. But you can exclude PPV (using Channels You Receive) and all "Video Providers."

From *TiVo "Series4" Premiere FAQ: Prerelease Overview, What's New*...

*Search* [HD menus only?] displays results for shows, movies, web videos, and actors. First word matches are no longer required. By default, search results are listed in order of popularity. A button on the remote toggles between sort by popularity and sort by name, while another button toggles between all, free, and watch now.

*Browse TV* [HD menus only?] organizes available and upcoming content by category. Selecting a subcategory on the BrowseTV menu displays the programs showing on television in the next 12 days, plus any matching content from Internet video providers enabled in settings. A button on the remote toggles content display between all, free, and watch now.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Very short list of what I *really *miss from the TiVo:
> 
> • Finally, reliability. By which I mean not having to babysit the DVR to make sure it doesn't refuse to record something at the last minute.


I have still never had this issue.. How many shows have you seen it not record that you expected it to, that weren't caused by a higher priority issue? when was most recent?

Also, I wonder if you are having this issue because of your large number of ARSLs for regular seires...


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> I have still never had this issue.. How many shows have you seen it not record that you expected it to, that weren't caused by a higher priority issue? when was most recent?
> 
> Also, I wonder if you are having this issue because of your large number of ARSLs for regular series...


Exactly. At least 90% of shows not getting recorded have been ARSL requests. There are over a half-dozen bugs that impact ARSLs only. (For summer rerun season, I've removed all my ARSLs except for two that are meant to catch a specific episode that I missed the first time. Though such ARSLs can't be relied upon.)

But also, just a month or two ago, my HR21 failed to record a one-off show after placing it in the To Do List. There was no History entry.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Red herring (from a TiVo hater, I suppose).


No, just the EXPERIENCE from a Tivo user. That may be where they are going with Premiere but that was NOT the case on the HD Tivo. Where they go with a DirecTV Tivo, who knows. I would not count on Premiere functionality as they have pretty much already said the DirecTV one (if it ever gets here) will not be in line with the Premiere.

You could NOT exclude Amazon and others. You could exclude linear channels you did not get but I had no way to keep the purchase and other internet based items away as recently as a little over a month ago.

I am NOT a Tivo hater. I am trying to keep the record straight from blind Tivo lovers like you who take things they never even experienced or experienced once a year ago and put together hate threads on a DVR.

Nice to know that hearsay is good enough for you but actual experience is not good enough for me.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

> I would guess in your case someone in your house specifically told the box not to record your show.


No one else was there but the cat, and she is smart, but not that smart.

I can only tell you what happened, and I have the angst of trying to get that credit back off my bill to prove it.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> I would not count on Premiere functionality as they have pretty much already said the DirecTV one (if it ever gets here) will not be in line with the Premiere.


Source, please?

All that I've read indicates only that the new DirecTiVo won't have an HD interface like the Premiere (optionally) does, so it won't necessarily have the extra functions that the HD interface provides.

But "not in line with the Premiere" implies that TiVo doesn't intend to apply the usability lessons learned from the TiVo HD, and especially from the TiVo Premiere, to the upcoming box's UI. If that's what you meant, I'd call that wishful thinking on the part of someone who is disillusioned and disgruntled about TiVo Inc.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll try to find you a source, but in the meantime, I'm pretty sure that if you're looking for Premiere functionality in the next DIRECTV/TiVo, it is you, Frank, who may end up disillusioned and disgruntled.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Source, please? [...]


No less than Tom Rogers himself: http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/03/new-directv-tivo-will-be-based-on-the-old-tivo-interface/

Read it into it what you want.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> No less than Tom Rogers himself: http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/03/new-directv-tivo-will-be-based-on-the-old-tivo-interface/
> 
> Read it into it what you want.


I must be missing something. :scratchin

I thought this was old news. 

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It is, but sometimes it's worth remembering.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> But the wishlist comparison between the Tivo and the HR2x makes me wonder if a lot of people who are pining for the Tivo are thinking of the old Tivo and do not even know what is on the current ones. Wishlists, for sure, are as complicated as the HR2x autosearches if you go beyond "find the Simpsons."


I use WishLists on the TiVo Series 3 at least once a week. How are they more complicated?! 

I will state for the record though that I don't find AutoRecord (which I'm assuming you were referring to) difficult, I just find them to be inadequate given that they count against the 50 Series Link limit, and that there is no option to do a SAVED search like you can the WishLists.



Earl Bonovich said:


> Season passes: Are there any that you can combine, or maintain as season end? If not, and that was your key point, then sorry the hr systystem are not for you


*CRAP! I guess I need to switch to Dish Network!* 



tonyd79 said:


> Earl, you mean this in the list, right or in the banner. I know when I had a tree issue this spring when I started a few recordings, I got a notice saying that the recordings were missing some time as partials. They were not listed as such in the description or the list but every time I started to play them, I got the popup notice. So the system does tell you.


The above quote was in relation to rain fade/partial recordings... and yeah, this is one area where TiVo's implementation is superior.

For instance, if I have a partial recording on a TiVo, I can get a minute count... so I'll know how many minutes didn't record. On a HR2x, I might get a message popping up (ONCE I START PLAYING THE RECORDING) that there was a rain fade issue which is nice, but unless I start playing it, I won't necessarily know it, and even then, I won't know if I'm missing 5 seconds or a half hour.... which can often be pretty handy knowledge to have.

That being said, I consider it more of a minor annoyance...

*I haven't look at this thread in a while, and there's quite a few comments I'd like to reply to, but I don't know if I will or not.

I have several things I wanted to say regarding Earl's comments, but out of respect choose only to comment to the Series Link limit comment quoted above, and to comment on the one area in which I agreed with his comments... namely that I actually prefer DirecTV's version of LIST GUIDE. Beyond that, well, I'll just*  

~Alan


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Source, please?





Steve said:


> No less than Tom Rogers himself: http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/03/new-directv-tivo-will-be-based-on-the-old-tivo-interface/
> 
> Read it into it what you want.





> _*engadget* said:_
> 
> _Tom Rogers [told] Light Reading that "Their [DirecTV's] next implementation of us is not going to have this look and feel. It's based on the classic TiVo."_
> _:_
> _"We don't make money on hardware. Hardware is really a way for us to get out our user experience."_


Those are the only two lines attributed to Tom Rogers in that little engadget article. Based on the first line, Rogers may not be worth considering as an authority, as I'm pretty sure that the "next implementation" of TiVo is not being worked on by DirecTV. This quote makes Rogers look as clueless about TiVo as Bush 43 was about the workings of the federal government.

Anyhoo, Rogers addressed only the "look and feel" of the UI, not its functionality.

I hope someone can come up with a source that really supports *tonyd79*'s belief that *"the DirecTV [TiVo] will not be in line with the Premiere."*


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Dude, this is really old news. Tom has spoken about it a couple times in interviews, the latest of which was on CNET I believe.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30966_3-20002650-262.html

And frankly how much Tivo screwed up the Premier I don't think anybody would want it.

This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


I think you might have hit the nail on the head with this comment ...


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.





Doug Brott said:


> I think you might have hit the nail on the head with this comment ...


That's pretty much been my understanding, though I think Directv has said it *HAS* to incorporate Active somehow doesn't it? Also, I would *think* it would also include MRV.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


For some, that's enough! 



Doug Brott said:


> I think you might have hit the nail on the head with this comment ...


Has TiVo given up on some of the added features?! 

~Alan


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Has TiVo given up on some of the added features?!


I think there were some additional features that were already announced. I would expect those to be included.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah, they said KidZone and one time, and yes I think that the iTV features available on D1x/H2x/R1x/HR2x receivers will be there. But I don't think you'll see TVApps or anything like that.


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## tuff bob (Mar 5, 2007)

and a decent cpu upgrade. that'd be enough as long as the monthly fee isnt insane


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


That's what I want - especially if there's no pushing of DirecTV's VOD at every opportunity.


Stuart Sweet said:


> But I don't think you'll see TVApps or anything like that.


Great!


tuff bob said:


> and a decent cpu upgrade. that'd be enough as long as the monthly fee isnt insane


+1


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


Sounds Great!! Where can I get one? 

Seriously, if only the wait had not been so long.... 

Nothing the HR2x (or the TiVo Premiere for that matter) can do that the HR10-250 doesn't do really matters to me. It just needs (i) two MPEG4 tuners, (ii) rock solid recording logic ( a TiVo strength) and (iii) no reboots or lockups.

I am in the process of setting up a TIVO HD with the local cable system (work has interfered with the proposed hard drive upgrade and install), and look forward to checking it out this summer. Even if cable turns out to be a bust, I will can use the TIVO HD to replace my HR 10-250 for OTA. The HR 10-250 has been a workhorse, but that hard drive must be getting ready to give up the ghost soon.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> This thing is going to be basically an HR10-250 that does MPEG4, can tune to the new sats and isn't hackable.


I would be a happy camper if that's the case. I could do without most of the resource hogging junk that DirecTV keeps adding to the HR2x's. I'd take MRV but I could do without the rest of the DVR 'features' (some would call them bugs).


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

mjbvideo said:


> I would be a happy camper if that's the case. I could do without most of the resource hogging junk that DirecTV keeps adding to the HR2x's. I'd take MRV but I could do without the rest of the DVR 'features' (some would call them bugs).


I'd be very happy with a SPEEDY MPEG-4 HR10-250 as long as it has MRV, and an upgradable (Internal) hard drive.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> That's what I want - especially if there's no pushing of DirecTV's VOD at every opportunity.


LOL at all the comments, I knew those would come. 

However, unless Tivo is having issues with it you can pretty much count on the Interactive stuff being in there and of course VOD. No way DirecTV is going to let that revenue stream be left behind unless it's the only way to get it out finally because Tivo can't get it integrated for whatever reason.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I wouldn't mind if there's VOD available, and even some advertising for it would be fine; it's just that the pollution of search results — placing all VOD at the top of the result lists — makes DirecTV look like pure evil. 

I think TiVo Inc would not like to be associated with that nefarious practice. (They could provide an option to omit VOD from search results, as DirecTV should have.)


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I wouldn't mind if there's VOD available, and even some advertising for it would be fine; it's just that the pollution of search results - placing all VOD at the top of the result lists - makes DirecTV look like pure evil.
> 
> I think TiVo Inc would not like to be associated with that nefarious practice. (They could provide an option to omit VOD from search results, as DirecTV should have.)


I HATE that!! Search for a show and have to scroll though 50 million VOD findings before getting to actual airings!


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> I wouldn't mind if there's VOD available, and even some advertising for it would be fine; it's just that the pollution of search results - placing all VOD at the top of the result lists - makes DirecTV look like pure evil.
> 
> I think TiVo Inc would not like to be associated with that nefarious practice. (They could provide an option to omit VOD from search results, as DirecTV should have.)


I seriously doubt that TiVo will provide an option to omit VOD from search results... and it's a far cry from "nefarious." 



kevinturcotte said:


> I HATE that!! Search for a show and have to scroll though 50 million VOD findings before getting to actual airings!


Yeah, over the last few weeks, I've been doing a KEYWORD: FINALE search only to get a dozen or so DoD results that I had to scroll past. It can be annoying... though it's really the smartest way to have it.

Contrary to Syzygy's beliefs, there is a method to DirecTV's madness in regards to this issue, and it's a good method. 

DirecTV's SEARCH RESULTS bring the earliest results to the top and the latest to the bottom. Since DoD is ALWAYS "currently airing", DoD results are on the top... as they should be.

I personally have very little use for DirecTV-On-Demand, as about every time it would come in handy, the program is only available in SD, and life's too short to watch SD... particularly when most cable programming is repeated multiple times in a week, and network programming where OnDemand would be more useful isn't available.

Now, if you wanted to complain about something, how about PPV results showing up?! They REALLY need to bunch all results for each title in a single folder. That really is an issue... 

~Alan


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I seriously doubt that TiVo will provide an option to omit VOD from search results... and it's a far cry from "nefarious."
> 
> Yeah, over the last few weeks, I've been doing a KEYWORD: FINALE search only to get a dozen or so DoD results that I had to scroll past. It can be annoying... though it's really the smartest way to have it.
> 
> ...


I REALLY hate the PPV results too! Especially since EVERY showing gets it's OWN line, and of course, every movie starts every 30 mins, so you have about 50 million entries for just *1* day!


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

kevinturcotte said:


> I REALLY hate the PPV results too! Especially since EVERY showing gets it's OWN line, and of course, every movie starts every 30 mins, so you have about 50 million entries for just *1* day!


A few months back, I was testing something a fellow poster commented on... don't even remember what, but I ended up doing a Smart Search. Since I had just noticed my DVD set of Season Three of "Veronica Mars", I decided to do a Smart Search for Kristen Bell... knowing that there was an upcoming showing of some sort of program she was in (thanks to TiVo WishLists).

However, this just happened to be right after "Couples Retreat" debuted on DirecTV Cinema... which meant I got over 500 search results.... and I knew I had a long way to go to get to the program I was looking for since it was over a week out. It ended up being on the last page, and of course this was prior to the recent NR which sped up my HR23-700 considerably, so between the slow speed of the HR23, the small amount of results shown per page, and of course the over 500 results, I spent quite a bit of time waiting....

While I'd LIKE to be able to OMIT PPV channels from searches, I can understand the reasoning why DirecTV wants them shown, but hopefully they will later group the PPV results in their own respective folders...

~Alan


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> I seriously doubt that TiVo will provide an option to omit VOD from search results... and it's a far cry from "nefarious."
> 
> Contrary to Syzygy's beliefs, there is a method to DirecTV's madness in regards to this issue, and it's a good method.


Yeah, it's a good method if you always want to see VOD offerings, but you just said _"I personally have very little use for DirecTV-On-Demand, as about every time it would come in handy, the program is only available in SD, and life's too short to watch SD."_

So you *don't* want to see VOD offerings; so how can you possibly say _"it's a good method?"_ Is it because you want to see DirecTV make as much money as possible off of VOD, no matter how much you yourself are inconvenienced?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Yeah, it's a good method if you always want to see VOD offerings, but you just said _"I personally have very little use for DirecTV-On-Demand, as about every time it would come in handy, the program is only available in SD, and life's too short to watch SD."_
> 
> So you *don't* want to see VOD offerings; so how can you possibly say _"it's a good method?"_ Is it because you want to see DirecTV make as much money as possible off of VOD, no matter how much you yourself are inconvenienced?


Two answers:

1. Yes, I want to see DirecTV make as much money as possible, and I do not consider the VOD titles to be that big of an inconvenience.

2. Just because I don't watch DoD, doesn't mean that I'd REFUSE to watch DoD, it simply means that I haven't found anything that I'd watch outside what I can pretty much always get by simply setting my DVR to record in HD at a later time. Whenever I search, I like having results come up for everything available to me... including DoD.

I don't like having results come up for DoD channels I don't receive (Starz on Demand, Showtime on Demand, etc), but as I get pretty much every other DoD channel, the others are nice...

~Alan


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

kevinturcotte said:


> I'd be very happy with a SPEEDY MPEG-4 HR10-250 as long as it has MRV, and an upgradable (Internal) hard drive.


add a good OTA tuner, and I'm in, too.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> No, just the EXPERIENCE from a Tivo user. That may be where they are going with Premiere but that was NOT the case on the HD Tivo. Where they go with a DirecTV Tivo, who knows. I would not count on Premiere functionality as they have pretty much already said the DirecTV one (if it ever gets here) will not be in line with the Premiere.
> 
> You could NOT exclude Amazon and others. You could exclude linear channels you did not get but I had no way to keep the purchase and other internet based items away as recently as a little over a month ago.
> 
> ...


This happens on TiVo since they have at least two different searches. Search by Title only searches your selected channels. Swivel Search is the universal search that finds results from Amazon and Netflix. This is the whole point of swivel search so yes if you go there instead of by title or channel you will find results from other sources. On the TiVo HD no you can't turn them off, but you also have to choose to use that search over search by title. EDIT: Also on Swivel Search you can even filter out so it is Broadcast only if you want under search options. You can also filter only broadband content if you want and even just free content if this is all you are looking for.

I have both the TiVo HD and Premiere. i never see results other than the channels I marked I received since I use search by title. Also on the Premiere you can even remove where you want search results to come from like I have Netflix and Amazon removed.

From TiVo Premiere FAQ


> By default, search results are listed in order of popularity. A button on the remote toggles between sort by popularity and sort by name, while the C button toggles between all, free, and watch now. "All" lists results for TV, plus any programs from *enabled video providers*; "free" lists results for TV, web content, and Netflix if enabled; and "watch now" lists content available from Netflix, Amazon, and Blockbuster VOD. Selecting a search result opens a screen for the actor, movie, or television series.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> From TiVo Premiere FAQ
> 
> 
> > By default, search results are listed in order of popularity. A button on the remote toggles between sort by popularity and sort by name, while the C button toggles between all, free, and watch now. *"All" lists results for TV*, plus any programs from enabled video providers; *"free" lists results for TV, web content,* and Netflix if enabled; and "watch now" lists content available from Netflix, Amazon, and Blockbuster VOD. Selecting a search result opens a screen for the actor, movie, or television series.


My question is when searching "TV", does it include results for channels not in your subscription package? Can you edit it, or does TiVO just show you everything from your MSO's guide database?

Sounds like "free" results could be flooded with web content. Can you shut off "web"?


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> My question is when searching "TV", does it include results for channels not in your subscription package? Can you edit it, or does TiVO just show you everything from your MSO's guide database?
> 
> Sounds like "free" results could be flooded with web content. Can you shut off "web"?


It only includes results from channels you told TiVo it receives. I always for example remove my PPV channels.

Also I was even wrong on the Tivo HD under Swivel Search, you can select Broadcast and Broadband, Broadcast, or Broadband along with cost.

Under the Premiere, in settings if I remember correctly you can turn off what sources you want to appear. I know it mentions it also in the FAQ, but no screenshots. I am not in front of it now, but I know when I first got it I turned off Netlfix and Amazon. I don't remember if there was an option for youtube and the rest. I am almost positive there is though since the Swivel Search is just an early version of the new search.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hancox said:


> add a good OTA tuner, and I'm in, too.


I'm pretty sure that you'll be stuck with the AM21 on this one .. whether that's "good" or not is up to you.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm pretty sure that you'll be stuck with the AM21 on this one .. whether that's "good" or not is up to you.


Right, as long as the DirecTiVo is a rebranded and repurposed HR21/2/3/4 box. (Of course I've got my fingers crossed for the HR24.)

I don't have an AM21, but according to reports it's better than the HR20's built-in tuner, and I'm confident it's better than the HR10's as well.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> It only includes results from channels you told TiVo it receives. I always for example remove my PPV channels [...]


As a former TiVO user, I know that's true for the HR10. Still true for the Premiere?


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> As a former TiVO user, I know that's true for the HR10. Still true for the Premiere?


Yeah. I have all the SD channels removed for channels I get in HD and all the PPV channels removed.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

This thread seems a little stagnant. Where’s the DBSTALK first look?  I was hoping we’d hear some juicy news by now. I for one have cash in hand ready to check this beast out.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah... I might invest that cash in a 6-month CD if I were you.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yeah... I might invest that cash in a 6-month CD if I were you.


:lol:

Bummer. I'm glad you didn't say 12-month CD.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Here's a new wrinkle... 

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tdirectv061510.htm


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's a new wrinkle...
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tdirectv061510.htm


If Swanni says so then it must be true :lol:

Hasn't this been rumored before?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> If Swanni says so then it must be true :lol:
> 
> Hasn't this been rumored before?


"Not so sure" to part 1 and "yes" to part 2.

The difference is that the situation with Tivo recently has changed in the courts, etc., and the financials as well...so who knows what may come of this...


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Here's another link.
http://wallstreetpit.com/31796-options-brief-tivo-inc-tivo


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> If Swanni says so then it must be true :lol:
> 
> Hasn't this been rumored before?


Oh yeah, that's carved in gelatin. :lol:

Mike


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

My SD TiVo died Sunday, and I'm not going to miss it.

Free Rxx is on the way.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

If Directv does buy Tivo, I hope they allow for stand alone Tivos to continue, and even further develop them. Unfortunately, in a year to 2 years, satellite may not be an option for me (I *WILL* be moving, and LOS may not be possible, or landlord just might not allow it), and I'll be stuck with either cable or OTA.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

OK there are talks that Directv is unfortunatly bringing back a TIVO unit that still has a lot of the functions of the older Tivo's and some functions of the good DVR receivers. Yes there is no time frame available as of yet. Why anyone would want one of these receivers is beyond me but I guess some people like them. Also just another little piece of information there is also talk of an HDDVR with Blu-Ray capabilities as well. Again no exact time frame but comes from someone who works within Directv.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

kevinturcotte said:


> If Directv does buy Tivo, I hope they allow for stand alone Tivos to continue, and even further develop them. Unfortunately, in a year to 2 years, satellite may not be an option for me (I *WILL* be moving, and LOS may not be possible, or landlord just might not allow it), and I'll be stuck with either cable or OTA.


If landlord permission is an issue go to directv.com/fcc. There are FCC regulations that prevent landlords or HOA to say that you cannot have it. They can place restrictions on how it is installed but they can't tell you that you cannot have it or place any kind of restrictions that will cause your system to not work properly or add any kind of unnecessary charges to obtain the service. When I was a tech I used to show this paper to landlords and they would usually back down. If they wouldn't they could always face the wrath of the FCC.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> I certainly don't remember it being all that to go thru several channels. I remember hitting Exit (or maybe it was the back button), down arrow to next channel, hit Info again, wait a couple seconds and boom...one touch record the next 2 weeks of guide data. Exit, down arrow, info....rinse and repeat.
> 
> But you're forgetting the actual setting the recordings thing. It takes a LOT longer on a Tivo to set a recording and it is cumbersome vs. just one button press on the HR2x. Once you add it up it's a lot faster on the HR2x to setup a bunch of recordings, just differing ways to do it.
> 
> ...


I've got agree I hate the Tivo. It's difficult to use, the menus are difficult to go to, who really cares about a wish list and who really likes the "suggestions" it gives you. The HRx are so easy to use I've taught 80 year old women to use them. Why wouldn't people like the one touch recording and all the other great features of these receivers? I always dreaded any time I had a service call for a customer who had one of these receivers because not only does it take me forever to go through the 5 million different screens to get to the menu then hit thumbs up thumbs down do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around before you can get into the settings menu but then the customer acts like it's the end of the world if you have to replace it because if finally got put out of it's misery. I'm sure it was great when it was first developed but come on it's 2010 lets use the new innovative and more efficient technology we have available and bury all the Tivos to finally get rid of them.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dtvmike1652 said:


> Also just another little piece of information there is also talk of an HDDVR with Blu-Ray capabilities as well. Again no exact time frame but comes from someone who works within Directv.


That's just ridiculous.


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

> I always dreaded any time I had a service call for a customer who had one of these receivers because not only does it take me forever to go through the 5 million different screens .... I'm sure it was great when it was first developed but come on it's 2010 lets use the new innovative and more efficient technology we have available and bury all the Tivos to finally get rid of them.


Yeah, I had some 'kid' at my house this am for the HD install, looked like he had never seen a tivo. You should perhaps learn your trade and not knock things you're not familiar with. Plus, if they suck so bad, why are you in a Tivo thread bashing them?

Heck, just the other day I had to install a Dos 6.22 Dual boot with XP. Guess I shoulda just told them to 'get rid of it'.:sure:


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

I am no longer interested in the D*Tivo. I have (2) HR24s and they blow the Tivo away. Oh, and by the way, I have a Tivo HDXL that I use for cable so don't even go there.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

H8tank said:


> Yeah, I had some 'kid' at my house this am for the HD install, looked like he had never seen a tivo. You should perhaps learn your trade and not knock things you're not familiar with. Plus, if they suck so bad, why are you in a Tivo thread bashing them?
> 
> Heck, just the other day I had to install a Dos 6.22 Dual boot with XP. Guess I shoulda just told them to 'get rid of it'.:sure:


why should he be familiar with it? Outside of OTA - which is not the responsiblity of Directv with that unit anymore, it does not recieve HD channels.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yea, really. DirecTV hasn't sold a Tivo based unit in over 4 yrs (5 for SD) and so few people still have one. It's no surprise that an installer that's probably only worked there for 6 months (lots of turnover) wouldn't have ever seen a Tivo based unit.

LOL


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The new TiVo box better be awful compelling. Doesn't seem like there's much of a line at the order window. IMHO, they've long blown their chance, with the HR24 getting rave reviews. They'll sell some, but they need some life changing feature to make a dent.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Sixto said:


> They'll sell some, but they need some life changing feature to make a dent.


No, they don't. Reliability (my fingers are crossed on that) and usability trump features.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> No, they don't. Reliability (my fingers are crossed on that) and usability trump features.


I'm with Sixto on this...with no differentiators in a new Tivobox, it will end up a niche unit without mass adoption. Yes it has to be reliable too.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Sixto said:


> ... with the HR24 getting rave reviews.


The raves, I believe, are only about how much faster it is than its woebegone predecessors. The HR24 still has all of the same software defects and design errors, except for those that have to do with response time.

I'm still hoping to get away (on the wings of TiVo) from all those defects and errors.
_______________________________________

However, here's a very pessimistic projection (in AVSForum, 5 days ago) from a guy who says he works at DirecTV:

_*Stealth2k:* On the note of Tivo... New DTV Tivo units will be rolling out end of 2012 assuming everything goes smoothly







_

_*Syzygy:* Surely you jest, sir._

_*Egan:* Yeah that's way too close to the end of the world._

_*Stealth2k:* yeah yeah I [know] how it goes... but really got nothing else to go off of when the 2 people involved in such a machine are saying the same thing._


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> The raves, I believe, are only about how much faster it is than its woebegone predecessors. The HR24 still has all of the same software defects and design errors, except for those that have to do with response time.


*Riddle me this:* *If what you say is true...then why does almost everyone seem to want/demand/expect to get one?* 

_[Go ahead and feel free to count all of the the "How do I get an HR24" posts and threads]_


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Simply because it's sufficiently fast. Duh.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Simply because it's sufficiently fast. Duh.


Guess you didn't read *all* the information recommended...nor really answer the riddle...that's OK.

If you think its just the speed....that's just fine.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

There will always be some folks that prefer TiVo, and that's cool, and expected.

The only question will be whether the new TiVo is compelling enough for mainstream America to select it, rather then an HR24, especially if the default is non-TiVo, and the TiVo costs more.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> The raves, I believe, are only about how much faster it is than its woebegone predecessors.


Perhaps. But the rave reviews are actually getting long time Dish supporters a reason to switch and they are in droves.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Sixto said:


> There will always be some folks that prefer TiVo, and that's cool, and expected.
> 
> The only question will be whether the new TiVo is compelling enough for mainstream America to select it, rather then an HR24, especially if the default is non-TiVo, and the TiVo costs more.


Yep.

Tivo just doesn't matter in the market anymore. It's basically a dead product to the average (and not so average) consumer. Upwards of 50 million DVR users, 95+% of which have never used or even seen a "real" Tivo. Unfortunate but it is reality.

People simply aren't going to pay more for a Tivo product. Yea, a few tens of thousands of die hards will, but that's hardly a success by any stretch.

Even if this new Tivo box had no extra costs to it, if it's not the default DVR, again, people will just take what they are given and be done with it.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I'd like to see some chatter, especially from "Friends of DirecTV", about the _other _part of my post:


> However, here's a very pessimistic projection (in AVSForum, 5 days ago) from a guy who says he works at DirecTV [in the Retention Department]:
> 
> _*Stealth2k:* On the note of Tivo... New DTV Tivo units will be rolling out end of 2012 assuming everything goes smoothly
> 
> ...


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I'd like to see some chatter, especially from "Friends of DirecTV", about the _other _part of my post:


By 2012, I doubt anyone will care about Tivo. I also figure the company will be owned by a MSO if they want to survive.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I'm still hoping to get away (on the wings of TiVo) from all those defects and errors.


For the moment, I am going to look past your notation of "all those defects and errors" since I use my DirecTV DVRs with very few problems, what in heaven's name makes you think that a new Tivo product will be bug free? That has never happened in the history of Tivo.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> ... what in heaven's name makes you think that a new Tivo product will be bug free? That has never happened in the history of Tivo.


Right. But more than 150 defects and errors? I think D* has established a mark that no sane company will ever approach.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Before the end of this year is possible .. By Q1/2011 is looking closer to likely these days.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Right. But more than 150 defects and errors? I think D* has established a mark that no sane company will ever approach.


your "defects" are personal preference much of the time .. let's at least call a spade a spade.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I guess I don't see the point now. They had a chance to bring something new and exciting to market and it turns out it won't even measure up to what TiVo just started selling. The use of the tired old GUI was the deal breaker for me.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The raves, I believe, are only about how much faster it is than its woebegone predecessors [...]





bonscott87 said:


> Perhaps. But the rave reviews are actually getting long time Dish supporters a reason to switch and they are in droves.


True. But as someone who owns and uses both daily, my HR24-500 is faster and has a slightly larger hard drive than my HR20-700's, but I have to admit it is otherwise functionally identical, at this point in time. I have no problem with that, because, unlike *Syzygy*, on the whole, I like the way it works! 

I've had them both connected to different inputs on my 65" plasma at the same time, and once I tweaked brightness, contrast, etc. for each unit, aside from the HR24's superior trickplay response, which I would describe as "effortless", I honestly couldn't tell which unit I was watching based on picture or sound quality.

Other differences:

The HR24 has built-in DECA. The HR20 needs an external DECA adapter.
The HR20 has built-in OTA. The HR24 needs an external OTA tuner (AM21).

Other HR24 owners... if I missed any other differences, please chime in.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Before the end of this year is possible .. By Q1/2011 is looking closer to likely these days.


Thanks for commenting, Doug. Does anyone care to speculate on where Stealth2k's statements might be coming from?

_"*end of 2012* assuming everything goes smoothly" ... "got nothing else to go off of when the *2 people involved in such a machine are saying the same thing*."_


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Right. But more than 150 defects and errors? I think D* has established a mark that no sane company will ever approach.


Tivo is in fact brilliant. By refusing to release their new DirecTivo, they are keeping their number of production defects at 0. At this rate, it will always be the superior (if always unavailable) product.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I'd like to see some chatter, especially from "Friends of DirecTV", about the _other _part of my post:


Stealth2k is a moron. He knows nothing more about the launch of the new DirecTivo than any of us do here.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> ... unlike *Syzygy*, on the whole, I like the way it works!


I get it, Steve, you're a happy guy. You don't want to bring up how the 50-SL limit has led you to become a wizard at recording several shows with one Autorecord. Or how first-run-only ARSLs record reruns too. (Yes, they still do, but not as frequently as before.)

On the whole, you like it. Well, as for me, I get frustrated by my HR21 every time it responds slow and late, or every time it presents me with search results that are mostly on channels I don't get.

Gotta get an HR24. That'll fix the "slow and late."


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I get it, Steve, you're a happy guy. You don't want to bring up how the 50-SL limit has led you to become a wizard at recording several shows with one Autorecord.


No longer use that. I've now got up to 10 simultaneous tuners, 250 SL's and a couple of TB's of disk storage, thanks to MRV. And I can watch any show in any room. I only use AUTORECORDS as "wish lists" now, for movies or actors I like.


> [...]Gotta get an HR24. That'll fix the "slow and late."


I agree. And I think you should try MRV too. It'll change how you use the boxes every day in a positive way, IMHO.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> ... And I think you should try MRV too. It'll change how you use the boxes every day in a positive way, IMHO.


I believe that; I've read all the posts (including yours) on how to use 2 MRV'd HR2x's to get around the 50-SL limit. And I'd go MRV in a flash except that my wife refuses to accept the idea that she should learn how to use the HR2x interface instead of her beloved TiVo (an HR10). She is so wedded to the TiVo interface, after 11 years, that she says she doesn't mind having to watch most of her shows (on a 30" glass HDTV) in SD.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Right. But more than 150 defects and errors? I think D* has established a mark that no sane company will ever approach.


Okay, I was looking past your exagerrated list of "defects and errors" to have a discussion but it appears you are not able to do so.

BTW, I guess you forgot the early DirecTivo's that were basically unusable.

Oh, I forgot. No matter how quirky or defect-prone a Tivo is, you are happy because you get those bloopy cartoon menus. Unless they use the Premiere interface, then you don't even have that.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I believe that; I've read all the posts (including yours) on how to use 2 MRV'd HR2x's to get around the 50-SL limit. And I'd go MRV in a flash except that my wife refuses to accept the idea that she should learn how to use the HR2x interface instead of her beloved TiVo (an HR10). She is so wedded to the TiVo interface, after 11 years, that she says she doesn't mind having to watch most of her shows (on a 30" glass HDTV) in SD.


Uhoh. You had better hope Tivo never abandons their old GUI for DirecTV systems. Cause your wife will not watch TV at all.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Right. But more than 150 defects and errors? I think D* has established a mark that no sane company will ever approach.


Ummm
MS
Novell
Oracle
Apple
All totally exceed this. Heck some pro ball players exceed this.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

rahlquist said:


> Ummm
> MS
> Novell
> Oracle
> ...


Never all in the same product, I'll bet.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> BTW, I guess you forgot the early DirecTivo's that were basically unusable.


No, the early HR2x's were basically unusable, and I'm sure that's what makes you, and other D* apologists, think you're in heaven now that the HR2x's are almost usable, even while riddled with stupid and contemptuous design decisions.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> No, the early HR2x's were basically unusable, and I'm sure that's what makes you, and other D* apologists, think you're in heaven now that the HR2x's are almost usable, even while riddled with stupid and contemptuous design decisions.


Name calling, finger pointing, and arrogance...Good job on having a mature discussion.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> No, the early HR2x's were basically unusable, and I'm sure that's what makes you, and other D* apologists, think you're in heaven now that the HR2x's are almost usable, even while riddled with stupid and contemptuous design decisions.


Certainly an interesting perspective.

Personally, was a big HR10-250 fan, spent a few grand on them, was also a big Series3 fan, ordered one of the first units on September 14th, 2006. Great units at the time.

But really, the HR24 is a joy to use. Yep, just one persons opinion, but I'd venture to guess that if you did an HR24 mass survey or usability testing that it would be very positive. And I sometimes chuckle at these discussions because the cable company DVR's are years behind.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Never all in the same product, I'll bet.


Youre kidding right? You have obviously never been a developer. Lets try just one.
SP1 for Vista, 551 Bugs

Holy smokes that's a lot more than 150.

Google around you will find that 150 aint so bad. My last set of security updates for Novell's SUSE was 86 and I am sure there will be more to come.

http://amartester.blogspot.com/2007/04/bugs-per-lines-of-code.html has some good info. the only thing they cite as bug free is the space shuttle but last I heard the cpu on a shuttle computer was a 486. Of course nobodys life ever depended on an HR20....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rahlquist said:


> Youre kidding right? You have obviously never been a developer. Lets try just one.
> SP1 for Vista, 551 Bugs
> 
> Holy smokes that's a lot more than 150.
> ...


Especially when 150 is really about 5.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> No, the early HR2x's were basically unusable, and I'm sure that's what makes you, and other D* apologists, think you're in heaven now that the HR2x's are almost usable, even while riddled with stupid and contemptuous design decisions.


You kill me.

You constantly deride the current DVRs and are so much a Tivo fanatic that anything they do is perfect. YOU SIR, are the APOLOGIST. And unreasonable.

I had Tivo's for years. I loved my DirecTivos. I like my HR2x's even better. I loved my DirecTivos so much, I BOUGHT a Tivo for Comcast. After using it regularly, I decided it was too much trouble to use it (out of date lineups, crashes, hanging, spontaneous reboots, sluggishness, searches and "gurus" that pushed SD channels over HD ones) that when I dropped Comcast and went with Fios, I CHOSE to go with the Fios DVR even though it is a quirky, simple appliance, not a world class DVR.

But, yeah, you see the world only from the eyes of a Tivo zealot so I can see that you think anyone who disagrees with you is an "apologist." But I am a realist. And one who had fewer problems with THREE DirecTV DVRs over the same period that I had several problems with my HD Tivo, which I used a lot less.

No, I didn't keep a nitpicky list of "defects" that I personally may or may not have experienced. All I know is that I lost faith in Tivo as I had it running SIDE BY SIDE with my DirecTV DVRs.

You can continue to live in the past, as has Tivo, but the world has moved on. No one, no one is perfect. Least of not Tivo.

And given that you exist on this forum simply to deride the HR2x and to champion Tivo, I laugh at your viewing me as some kind of zealot.

Project much?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> And given that you exist on this forum simply to deride the HR2x and to champion Tivo, I laugh at your viewing me as some kind of zealot.


Just look at his signature. He comes right out and calls himself a Tivo zealot, yet he is content to sit here and bash people for being "DirecTV apologists."


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

So full circle we come....some folks look forward to the rumored new HD Tivobox, while others clearly do not. Having had one of the HR10-250's in the past....littered with "issues", I am in the later camp.

Still...I can understand that some folks love the Tivo mantra and methods. Again, I am clearly not in that camp - I believe the cartoon GUI is outdated and almost an insult to today's user. I guess repeating that 100 times won't change anything, nor does it mean my opinion means one tiny bit more than anyone else's. I take ownership of forgetting that myself from time to time.

Yet...I also respect those who prefer the Tivo way. Choices are good.

Where I struggle...is when I hear terms like DirecTV apologist" thrown around repeatedly, or worse yet...making redundant and blatantly wrong statements about flaws in today's DirecTV HD DVR lines. That is compounded when it has been repeatedly pointed out by numerous folks, mostly (but admittedly not fully) with taste and class, and yet it continues.

*How about this?* Can we perhaps turn back the clock a bit...and talk about, debate (with dignity), and anticipate about the rumored new Tivobox, and skip all the name-calling and insults. If not...I suspect this thread will have a short shelf life, which is a shame - and I say that as one who doesn't even really care if the unit is ever produced. Yet I do respect that some users appreciate having such a choice - and are willing to post about it with adult conversation.

Best wishes and good luck.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...some folks look forward to the rumored new HD Tivobox, while others clearly do not...


That was some time ago, when I decided to check in this thread now, it seems there is only one folk left, who still looks forward to the rumored new HDTiVo I wonder how long till this last one stops looking forward to it, that will be when I consider it is really over.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> That was some time ago, when I decided to check in this thread now, it seems there is only one folk left, who still look forward to the rumored new HDTiVo I wonder how long till this last one stops looking forward to it, that will be when I consider it is really over.


I certainly don't have those answers.

But it's probably fair to say that "pent up demand" diminishes over time.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> No, the early HR2x's were basically unusable, and I'm sure that's what makes you, and other D* apologists, think you're in heaven now that the HR2x's are almost usable, even while riddled with stupid and contemptuous design decisions.


So was my 3 HR10-250's they almost went into the trash because of them being a SDT.

the Directv units are working a lot better then the HR10's ever did. The are some Personal preference changes that I would like to see, but I do not label those as design defects or faults in the units, they are things I personally would like to see


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

SDT? Wuzzat? And some details on your 3 HR10s' failings would be nice.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> I wonder how long till this last one stops looking forward to it, that will be when I consider it is really over.


I remember when I was a kid that people still wanted horses and carriages back. (Then my dad would remind them of all the horse crap on the streets when they were still around.) :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> SDT? Wuzzat? And some details on your 3 HR10s' failings would be nice.


..and that value for that information would be.... ???


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ..and that value for that information would be.... ???


Maybe he is trying to come out of the river, the river denial.

Gotta love selective memory.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> SDT? Wuzzat? And some details on your 3 HR10s' failings would be nice.


In light of you total dislike for HRx DVRs, why haven't you gone to cable so you could use Tivos exclusively. I know you're a good person and I'm not trying to be a wise guy. But why be miserable using something that you hate? Life is too short for that. Some people enjoy being miserable though and if that's the case please just ignore this post.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

joed32 said:


> In light of you total dislike for HRx DVRs, why haven't you gone to cable so you could use Tivos exclusively. I know you're a good person and I'm not trying to be a wise guy. But why be miserable using something that you hate? Life is too short for that. Some people enjoy being miserable though and if that's the case please just ignore this post.


I've been telling some people that for 3+ years. No sense being miserable, switch to cable/FIOS/whatever and be happy. Almost all cable systems will be more then happy to buy you out of whatever contract you have left so that has never really been an issue.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I remember when I was a kid that people still wanted horses and carriages back. (Then my dad would remind them of all the horse crap on the streets when they were still around.) :lol:


Horses and carriages can still be found, just that they are confined to very limited places and "carrying baggage" for crap is a requirement


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Horses and carriages can still be found, just that they are confined to very limited places and "carrying baggage" for crap is a requirement


The Tivo guy craps out colorful balls! :lol:


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

joed32 said:


> In light of you total dislike for HRx DVRs, why haven't you gone to cable so you could use Tivos exclusively. I know you're a good person and I'm not trying to be a wise guy. But why be miserable using something that you hate? Life is too short for that. Some people enjoy being miserable though and if that's the case please just ignore this post.


Frank did answer that question earlier in the thread, even admitting the Premiere is still in beta. Imagine that.

I'm of the opinion that if you truly love a DVR platform, you follow that platform. And I would think that three years of doing without any new HD channels, even losing a good share of what you had, would be enough to force any TiVotee's hand.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> SDT? Wuzzat? And some details on your 3 HR10s' failings would be nice.


S = small
D = Dry
T = guess at it, post would be censored if I explained :lol:

Lockups
Overheats
dropped recordings
imaculate conception reboots

Got tired ot the screams of anguish from the kids when the units rebooted in the middle of Dora the Explorer or Blues Clues. Before you assume, full UPS's on all equipment, properly grounded.

only good thing I can say is when they where finally replaced through the protection plan then made nice explosions when hit by a remington 870 with 00 buck


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

wingrider01 said:


> ... only good thing I can say is when they where finally replaced through the protection plan then made nice explosions when hit by a remington 870 with 00 buck


Coulda sold 'em on eBay. 

I wasn't going to comment further, but on second thought... I had/have only one HR10. I didn't get dropped recordings or overheating. I had some lockups and spontaneous reboots early on (August 2004), but they didn't make me feel like the DVR was my enemy - like the HR21 does currently.

Maybe your bad experiences were a few months before I got my box, with half-baked software?


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## H8tank (May 26, 2010)

I will continue to patiently wait for the Dtv HD Tivo, but for now I got a free HR24 coming Tuesday. 

I like to hit pause, hit LIVE to switch to other tuner... watch for a bit, then PAUSE and hit LIVE to switch back to my other live tuner, as in watching two ballgames at once.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

H8tank said:


> I will continue to patiently wait for the Dtv HD Tivo, but for now I got a free HR24 coming Tuesday.
> 
> I like to hit pause, hit LIVE to switch to other tuner... watch for a bit, then PAUSE and hit LIVE to switch back to my other live tuner, as in watching two ballgames at once.


You don't need TiVo for that.


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## Dradran (Apr 21, 2010)

H8tank said:


> I will continue to patiently wait for the Dtv HD Tivo, but for now I got a free HR24 coming Tuesday.
> 
> I like to hit pause, hit LIVE to switch to other tuner... watch for a bit, then PAUSE and hit LIVE to switch back to my other live tuner, as in watching two ballgames at once.


You can do it with DoublePlay on the HR2x series. Maybe even other DVR's. I use it all the time with Sunday Ticket watching the Pats games and Redzone doing exactly what you are describing.

Instructions here.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/article.jsp?assetId=P6300172


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

H8tank said:


> I will continue to patiently wait for the Dtv HD Tivo, but for now I got a free HR24 coming Tuesday.
> 
> I like to hit pause, hit LIVE to switch to other tuner... watch for a bit, then PAUSE and hit LIVE to switch back to my other live tuner, as in watching two ballgames at once.


Use the down arrow on your HR24 to accomplish the same thing .. It's called DoublePlay.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

H8tank said:


> I will continue to patiently wait for the Dtv HD Tivo, but for now I got a free HR24 coming Tuesday.
> 
> I like to hit pause, hit LIVE to switch to other tuner... watch for a bit, then PAUSE and hit LIVE to switch back to my other live tuner, as in watching two ballgames at once.


Been able to do that on the HR2x's for over a year.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Coulda sold 'em on eBay.
> 
> I wasn't going to comment further, but on second thought... I had/have only one HR10. I didn't get dropped recordings or overheating. I had some lockups and spontaneous reboots early on (August 2004), but they didn't make me feel like the DVR was my enemy - like the HR21 does currently.
> 
> Maybe your bad experiences were a few months before I got my box, with half-baked software?


had the HR10's from a few months after release till the HR2X's came out

Sell on Ebay? Why bring pain and misery on a unsuspected person, as mean as I am I would not even do that to my ex-wife or a lawyer, after all I do have some standards. was more fun hitting them with the shotgun when I got rid of them, they where replaced with owned HR2X's throught he protection plan and Directv did not want them back.

1 HR20
2 HR21

have had a few spontaneous reboots - mainly when they had the guide data problems, unlike the expeirence with the HR10's - don;t think the hr10 ever had anything but half backed software


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