# Airport Extreme/DECA help



## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

I posted about this problem several days ago but am wondering if the router could be causing the problem at all. DECA to router is still showing the cLink LED orange or not lit at all. I know it should be green if all is well. I have never seen it green. I get the limited network error when I run the system tests. Also something I noticed is that when I unplug the DVR in the offfice the cLink light will come on green so it could be there instead of the router. Feel free to comment if anyone has any ideas. Especially people with Airport Extreme router such as anything you had to do special with ports and such if anything. Thanks

J.C.


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## jsmuga (Jan 3, 2008)

jchall30 said:


> I posted about this problem several days ago but am wondering if the router could be causing the problem at all. DECA to router is still showing the cLink LED orange or not lit at all. I know it should be green if all is well. I have never seen it green. I get the limited network error when I run the system tests. Also something I noticed is that when I unplug the DVR in the offfice the cLink light will come on green so it could be there instead of the router. Feel free to comment if anyone has any ideas. Especially people with Airport Extreme router such as anything you had to do special with ports and such if anything. Thanks
> 
> J.C.


I am using an airport extreme, it is working fine. I did not have to make any changes for it to work.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

OK well that eliminates it being a router issue for the most part. I have a service call setup for today but just wanted to see if anyone here had issues with that router before they got here. I am thinking its going to be a connector but I hope it doesnt turn into a big mess as some of these installers are not up to speed yet on this system. Ill post how it goes and if anyone has any other ideas feel free to share. 

J.C.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> DECA to router is still showing the cLink LED orange or not lit at all. I know it should be green if all is well. I have never seen it green. I get the limited network error when I run the system tests. Also something I noticed is that when I unplug the DVR in the offfice the cLink light will come on green so it could be there instead of the router.
> 
> J.C.


You may have a defective DECA or a cabling problem. This should be something the service tech can handle and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the router.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Tech is here now and still having trouble with code 48-72-329. I assume one of them is a error code for no phone line which is fine. We changed some ends on cables and still no luck so not sure what is going on. Any other suggestions to try? Thanks again

J.C.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Still not working. cLink light is still amber or off? Will resetting all network connections on each box help?


J.C.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Still not working. cLink light is still amber or off? Will resetting all network connections on each box help?
> 
> J.C.


Have him try another DECA.
The cLink is reporting the RF signal isn't good enough to establish a network.
Off means "dead", while yellow means not as good as it should be. Green means it is good, but there are other/further tests as to "how good" and what the bit-rate is.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Well we have it staying yellow for now. Not sure what else to try.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh now its off again. *sigh*


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

You haven't posted much about your system/setup, so this leaves everything on the tech to sort out.
You could have a bad splitter or the wrong type splitter, or :shrug: [anything]


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Sorry for not giving system specifics. I have 2 HR-24's and 2 H-24's and the one deca to the router with the PI plugged into the wall. No ethernet cables have ever been plugged up the boxes. Tech has gone now with nothing really worked out. At one point all boxes where unplugged and we got all green lights on the DECA but once we hooked up the boxes it went back to yellow then off. One last thing about the setup, LNB and switch outside are green label. Any other suggestions to try on my own? We changed several ends on cables also.

J.C.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

One last question on your previous post VOS. You say possible "bad" splitter. Would I still have picture to all TV's and still have internet issues if it was bad? We didnt try to change the splitter outside. I have 5 cables coming from it. One to each box and one to the router DECA.

J.C.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> One last question on your previous post VOS. You say possible "bad" splitter. Would I still have picture to all TV's and still have internet issues if it was bad? We didnt try to change the splitter outside. I have 5 cables coming from it. One to each box and one to the router DECA.
> 
> J.C.


The splitter most likely isn't the problem [green labels are good things :lol:].
I'm not reading where another DECA was tried.
Since you have the "24s", go to the front panel and press both the guide & down arrow. Because of the touch screen type front panel, it may take a few times before you see the internal test menu and "coax network". Select this and the first screen will show the losses between each DECA/receiver. The next screen PHY status or rate [can't remember] will show the bit rates between nodes in a matrix.
If you post what both screens show here, it will give some idea of how the RF between the DECAs is functioning.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

I did try another DECA and had the same results. Results from test from front panel is:

NDS 0 1 2 3 4
0 104 184 172 107 172
1 176 98 162 97 160
2 184 186 124 126 224
3 155 155 162 150 159
4 153 154 204 86 84


On the info page is has:

Node Ids Phy Levels:

0 38 (Kitchen Box)
1 38 (DECA)
2 37 (Bedroom)
3 n/a ( This is the one I am looking at is prob why it is N/A)
4 40 (Living Room)

Maybe this will help ya


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

Are the unused ports on the splitter capped off ??

I assume it is an 8 way splitter and you are using 4 for receivers and one for the ICK Deca ??

The open three need to be capped off...


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> I did try another DECA and had the same results. Results from test from front panel is:
> 
> NDS 0 1 2 3 4
> 0 104 184 172 107 172
> ...


Something out there is attenuating your signal levels. These numbers do not look good and should be in the 220-250 + range. My guess is the splitter is attenuating everything. VOS should be able to comment on this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> I did try another DECA and had the same results. Results from test from front panel is:
> 
> On the info page is has:
> 
> ...


The matrix has the worst bit-rates I've ever seen. :eek2:
They should be at least 215 and a good setup will be closer to 250.
The first screen has reasonable power levels.
What are you using for coax? phone line wire? :eek2:

Time to post a lot more about how your cabling is done and photos if you can of things like the splitter.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> Something out there is attenuating your signal levels.


Seems to be more noise than attenuation. Numbers below 60 [dB] on the first page are within range.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

So just so I'm reading the OPs situation correctly, whenever you have good "absolute" signal strengths this way, but poor (in this particular case extremely so) data rates on the mesh screen it is because of a lot of "noise" is in the system resulting in low s/n ratios which are "relative?"


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> So just so I'm reading the OPs situation correctly, whenever you have good "absolute" signal strengths this way, but poor (in this particular case extremely so) data rates on the mesh screen it is because of a lot of "noise" is in the system resulting in low s/n ratios which are "relative?"


That's "about it".
The signal needs to be:


of a high enough level to be useful
"Clean enough" to be able to demod a good bit-rate.
With DECA, there are several/many paths that the same signal will travel, so there needs to be one high enough over the others to "stand out of the noise" [since the others are seen as noise].
*
The bit-rates are so bad, it's almost as if CATV is being diplexed into the line*. And it was, though not with a diplexer. :lol:


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok. Just got back from dinner. What do you need to know about the cabling to help out there. All cable is ran in the walls and as far as i know is RG-6. Sat signal levels are all in the 90's and all boxes have a good picture. If I were to take pictures what items would you need to see to possibly help? I have faith that you guys can help me get this solved 

J.C.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> That's "about it".
> The signal needs to be:
> 
> 
> ...


OK, though I wonder would it have been really cost prohibitive and or cause a problematic increase in circuit complexity to incorporate some method of "adaptive equalization" into DECA to help compensate for such muliti-path effects as with digital wireless systems?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Ok. Just got back from dinner. What do you need to know about the cabling to help out there. All cable is ran in the walls and as far as i know is RG-6. Sat signal levels are all in the 90's and all boxes have a good picture. If I were to take pictures what items would you need to see to possibly help? I have faith that you guys can help me get this solved
> 
> J.C.


I've got to ask if this is a house install with a dish on the outside or is this a apt/condo on a MDU system?
This really sounds like it has cable TV being added into the coax and needs the bandstop filter to block it out.
DECA is in the same frequency range as UHF channels 14 to 40.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

This is a home install with cables ran in the wall. I do have cable internet but it has a separate line into the house. Or at least as best I can tell. I do have a couple barrel connectors in the loop but they were all changed today to newer ones as well as the ones on all the wall plates. Tech even changed several connectors on a couple cables that looked older to newer ones


J.C.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> This is a home install with cables ran in the wall. I do have cable internet but it has a separate line into the house. Or at least as best I can tell. I do have a couple barrel connectors in the loop but they were all changed today to newer ones as well as the ones on all the wall plates. Tech even changed several connectors on a couple cables that looked older to newer ones
> 
> J.C.


You have a problem I simply haven't seen before. "I know" what is wrong and the cLink is showing the right status, but "the cause" is what is not understood.
I would check to see that the cable internet isn't connected to the SAT coax in any way. This simply seems the most logical reason for this.
Next I'd look to see if one or more receivers were the cause. Pull the power cord on one or more and look at the cLink LED on DECA. "Maybe" one of the internal DECAs is spitting out noise.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

If I go pull the power on each box is there a certain way I should power them back up?

J.C.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> If I go pull the power on each box is there a certain way I should power them back up?
> 
> J.C.


Maybe go with the DVRs first on power up and the receiver first for powering down. Keep an eye on the DECA at the router after each one.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

OK. So far the 2 h-24's are unplugged and the cLink went to orange.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

You don't live next to a TV transmitter do you? :lol:

Do you know of any thing in the 500-600 MHz range around the house?


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

No No TV transmitter close :lol: I have all boxes unplugged and the power led is on and cLink is blinking and no network light


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Unplugged DECA and plugged back in and still cLink blinking and power on and nothing else


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

jchall30 said:


> Unplugged DECA and plugged back in and still cLink blinking and power on and nothing else


OK, now starting with the DVRs first power up each receiver one at a time and check the status lights of the internet DECA dongle each time you add another receiver.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

OK First DVR up and network light is on and cLink is yellow already


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Yes follow through with these steps, "but" I'm starting to think this isn't going to show the problem.
Next would be to go to the splitter and make sure there aren't any unused cables connected to it. Seems like you have an 8-way splitter and five coax drops coming off it. There should be terminations on the three unused ports, but even if these aren't there, I'm not sure this would cause the problem this bad, however if there are any cables that aren't being used [open other ends] this could be the cause.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> OK First DVR up and network light is on and cLink is yellow already


"Yeah" what I just posted ^.
You've got some strange cabling issue it looks like. Check the splitter and take a photo if you can.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok Unplugged the one dvr and tried the other first and the same result. I am almost sure that the unused ends are terminated and nothing unused hooked to it. I can look again to make sure I guess


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok Going out to take a picture of the switch. Not sure how to post it but we'll cross that bridge after I get the pics :lol:


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

And btw with just both dvr's up I have already lost the cLink light already


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Ok Unplugged the one dvr and tried the other first and the same result. I am almost sure that the unused ends are terminated and nothing unused hooked to it. I can look again to make sure I guess


Please do.
It's going to get real strange real soon to troubleshoot this, since it's looking like the cables are the problem.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Ok Going out to take a picture of the switch. Not sure how to post it but we'll cross that bridge after I get the pics :lol:


Look for the paperclip at the top of the posting window. You'll need to upload the image and then paste it into the post.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

LOLOLOL Think I may have found the problem and cant believe that the tech didnt catch this. 6 wires into splitter but only 5 wires in house :eek2:


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Problem is gonna be that I dont have a terminator cap to put on when I figure out which cable isnt needed


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Problem is gonna be that I dont have a terminator cap to put on when I figure out which cable isnt needed


First let's see what happens with the unneeded cable is removed.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

KK Wife is watching a show right now so at 9 Ill start pulling and see what happens when I find the right one and remove it Please stand by VOS as you have helped a great deal here and also the others that have posted as well


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> KK Wife is watching a show right now so at 9 Ill start pulling and see what happens when I find the right one and remove it Please stand by VOS as you have helped a great deal here and also the others that have posted as well


 I've got 5:55 here so it looks like a long wait. :lol: :lol:


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

All lights GREEN!!!!!!!!!!! Thank yo all so much Now just to get a termination cap


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh and no failed tests


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

So now tell me if your internet is on the line?


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

All lights are green on the DECA. Is that what you are asking?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> All lights are green on the DECA. Is that what you are asking?


Nope, I'm still betting that the cable that shouldn't have been connected to the splitter is connected to your cable modem/Cable TV.
Your bit-rates were SO BAD that there had to be another signal in there and cable carries channels 14-40 [among others].


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh Yeah my internet is still online. All is working correctly it seems now. Not sure where the other cable went or was just a extra line that went nowhere


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Also on that test you had my post earlier my lowest number is now 238


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The odds of that line going "nowhere" and you having the problem you were having aren't very good.
"If" it simply went out to nothing and the signal bounced back to the splitter, it could degrade the bit-rates, but I've NEVER seen bit-rates so low as yours and "this cable" would have to be the one in 10,000 to cause this as bad as it was.
"On the other hand", if it simply connected to the cable TV feed, then the odds are 100 to zero, that it would cause exactly this problem.

I guess you can see where I'm putting my bet.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Like I said Im not sure where it went but everything is working in the house that has a cable connected to it so Im not sure where it went to cause it goes up the inside of the wall outside and into the attic but once up there I cant tell which cable is which. All is working so I am happy


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> All is working so I am happy


"As you should be".
"I can live" with _knowing_ it ended up being connected to your internet feed, whether you ever find that out or not.
I kind of know how this works and what makes it not work. :lol:


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

I think I know what it may have been now that Im thinking of it. I bet like you said it was the old cable feed that came from the poll from when I used to have cable tv. When i had Cable TV and internet I had 2 different lines coming into the house and I bet that was it. I just left it unplugged in the box outside.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

I am just amazed at your knowledge of knowing what it was with my terrible translation of what was happening :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> I am just amazed at your knowledge of knowing what it was with my terrible translation of what was happening :lol:


"I speak RF" !rolling


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Im glad one of us does!!! Again I appreciate your time to help me and respond to my posts. Thank you VOS


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Im glad one of us does!!! Again I appreciate your time to help me and respond to my posts. Thank you VOS


That's kind of why we come here.


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## jchall30 (Jul 3, 2010)

Well I hope that I can return the favor soon


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jchall30 said:


> Well I hope that I can return the favor soon


Sure, just PM me where to send my bill. !rolling


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

Nice work VOS!

jchall: You may want to track down the other end of that cable and terminate it (or put a barrel on it and add a terminator). Your cable internet, and possibly even your neighbors', may suffer ingress (unwanted noise) problems from that unconnected live cable.


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