# When is the 921 going to get another update that fixes some things?



## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

The last 2 updates have been nearly worthless.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I agree.

Don't hold your breath.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> I agree.
> 
> Don't hold your breath.


You guys are reading my mind. I was just logging on to start a similar thread. I now find myself looking for that flashing green light, but it never comes. As you know, Mark can not reveal details about the progress of the software testing, and ETA's on the relase. But as I have come to successfully read between the lines of his posts on previous releases, I think that they may have run into some unforseen problems in testing which is delaying the release. I really do hope I'm wrong. Maybe their putting this update through some more riggerous testing to avoid creating more problems then they fix as has happened before. Oh well, time will tell.
Ronald Reagan a Great American, Rest In Peace !pride


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Let's put it this way. Not a lot of effort is being put into the 921. Dish is not happy with ELDON, look for a lot more effort to be poured into the 942, and look for no Eldon involvement with its software.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

That's nice. So I've got $1000 boatanchor. Never again.


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## H2OSkier (Jan 20, 2004)

I already have a boat and a boat anchor, I really don't need another 

Ken


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The 921 is not a boat anchor.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Don't get me wrong, there will still be new features and improvements made on the 921, however I have been told directly by Dish Network that there are no plans to increase the production of the 921.

Instead they will be steering people to the 942 in November. At Team Summit I asked if the 942 would be ready by November and was told that they were told (engeneeriing) that is HAS to be ready by November, "No if ands or butts"

It seems as though they do not want a repeat of last years holiday season when Dish had no HD equipment to sell to anyone.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

The 921 still isn't 'ready' so there's no reason to believe that the 942 will be by this time next year. 

I've tried to be patient and understanding. But my patience is totally gone. They were already a year late in bringing it to market and it appears that it was still brought out a year before it was really ready. I can honestly say that this is the worst (and 2nd most expensive) consumer electronic device I've ever bought. This level of quality wouldn't be acceptable on a $100 device. It's that much worse that it's 10X as expensive. How on earth can this thing be out on the market for 6 months and there's still no expectation that it's going to have even the most glaring problems fixed in the foreseeable future? How can a 'receiver' be called a receiver when it loses channels daily? How can it be called a PVR when it skips more recordings than it makes? How can they charge $5/month for this nonsense? We've reached a new low when we're just hoping a device will someday be as stable as a Win95 PC.

In case you missed it, I'm angry.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> ... Instead they will be steering people to the 942 in November. At Team Summit I asked if the 942 would be ready by November and was told that they were told (engeneeriing) that is HAS to be ready by November, "No if ands or butts"


Sounds like it's gonna be another fiasco - release the sucker without concern for the quality, stability, or any other factors of it's hardware or software.

We're probably better off sticking with the 921. I predict that even with slow and minimal fixes to the 921, it's gonna be more stable than the 942 for the first few months.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Oh dear lord... Another Dish product driven by release date instead of product completion... I'm speechless....


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

kmcnamara - I'm sure someone will happily take your 921 off your hands for somewhat more than retail price.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> kmcnamara - I'm sure someone will happily take your 921 off your hands for somewhat more than retail price.


I was pretty sure I was going to get one of these responses. I've said that very thing many times to complainers. Unfortunately, I'm stuck. My choice is either hope and pray for the 921 to get fixed or pop another $250 on a component-to-RGB transcoder so I can use an HDTIVO with my Sony 1272 projector. Would I be able to get $1250 for a used 921? I don't know. The one thing that Dish really did right with the 921 is include analog RGB output from the DVI port. I just had to buy a $3 adapter and I was in business. DirecTV/Tivo were shortsighted on that issue. Actually the lack of RGB output in the D-TIVO is the ONLY reason I haven't already switched. I know it's weird that I'll spend $1000 on a receiver but won't spend another $250 on the transcoder. But based on my current budget, I was already splurging big-time on the 921 itself.

By the way Mark. None of my diatribe was directed at you. You go above and beyond to try to get the bugs worked out. I'm just really frustrated at Dish right now and feel like they've totally dropped the ball and should've had these problems fixed within the first 3 months at least.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> . . . How can a 'receiver' be called a receiver when it loses channels daily? How can it be called a PVR when it skips more recordings than it makes? How can they charge $5/month for this nonsense? We've reached a new low when we're just hoping a device will someday be as stable as a Win95 PC.
> 
> In case you missed it, I'm angry.


I've had my 921 for about a month. I'll be the first to admit our family is not the most aggressive user of the product. Most of the recording we do is pretty straight forward (record "Dawson's Creek" for the kids and a few after hours HD programs for dad). Our OTA channels have been AOK since initial scan, we've never lost a recording, and had only one reboot. We moved to the 921 from a 508 as we replaced our old set with a new Sammy 61" DLP. It and the 921 have become "good buds."

Put us in the "pretty happy, but not quite yet thrilled" category.


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## jforkner (Mar 17, 2004)

You guys have convinced me to hold out on my migration to HDTV. It’s clear to me from the many posts on the 921, that it’s a “work-in-progress.” I’m sure in time, the bugs will be worked out, and the HDTV will be delivered to the masses. However, for now I think I’ll wait, follow the saga, and try to be ready when the time is right. I don’t think I have the patience to deal with missed programs, reboots, and the like.

This scenario is reminiscent of Microsoft and their Windows software. Eventually it worked well. But while it was getting there, it was very frustrating.

Jack


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

It's not HDTV that's the problem. HDTV is excellent so you shouldn't just sit on the sidelines. Try to get an inexpensive HDTV receiver, either SAT or OTA. You'll be glad you did (assuming you have a decent HDTV display).


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> It's not HDTV that's the problem. HDTV is excellent so you shouldn't just sit on the sidelines. Try to get an inexpensive HDTV receiver, either SAT or OTA. You'll be glad you did (assuming you have a decent HDTV display).


Couldn't agree more with this recommendation. While we were waiting for our 921, I picked up a Sammy OTA receiver for $225. Local HD was great!! Our PBS station is chocked full of true HD every day from 5:00 PM on.


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## 418583 (Jan 25, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> It's not HDTV that's the problem. HDTV is excellent so you shouldn't just sit on the sidelines. Try to get an inexpensive HDTV receiver, either SAT or OTA. You'll be glad you did (assuming you have a decent HDTV display).


Sure, I can get an 811 or a straight OTA reciever for about $300(ish) but--curse you Dish Network!--I've become addicted to my PVR. How can I watch "live" TV without a Pause button?

I can't! I won't!!


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

jforkner said:


> This scenario is reminiscent of Microsoft and their Windows software. Eventually it worked well. But while it was getting there, it was very frustrating.
> 
> Jack


EXACTLY. It feels like our constant harping over the original Dishplayer. It FINALLY got fixed into a good receiver about 6 months AFTER they discontinued it. Both are still working in my kids roms and they get heavy use. One of the 7200s has always been flaky (this was the refurb I bought when they discontinued it) and needs to have a switch check and EPG download forced about once every 3 months, while the other keeps working flawlessly.

At the time E* used to like blaming Microsoft for the product's shortcomings (they even created a lawsuit over the failed support from Microsoft with the product), but this time they have no one else to blame but themselves and their subcontractor, Eldon....

BTW, what is Eldon? I've never heard anyone give a description of what they are and what they do. Do they do the 721 also, etc......


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> BTW, what is Eldon?


http://www.eldon.co.uk/


> Seventeen months on from the acquisition of Eldon Technology by EchoStar Communications Corporation, Eldon celebrated the completion its first major design project for the US parent with the launch of the DISH 301 receiver at the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January 2001. Eldon engineers worked hard with Denver based colleagues to design the 301, which represents the DISH Network entry-level satellite receiver


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Thanks Richard.....

Their site only mentions the 301. I guess they don't want to brag about the 921 being theirs....


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

The irony about the 921 being based on the 721 is that it includes some of the very same defects that the 721 has which never got fixed. Hence, some of the 921 bugs are actually older than the 921 itself!

And of course, the 921 engineers probably aren't familiar with the original parent code for areas which weren't changed (since they just inherited it), so the odds of getting any fixes for these pre-existing problems is pretty slim.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> At Team Summit I asked if the 942 would be ready by November and was told that they were told (engeneeriing) that is HAS to be ready by November, "No if ands or butts"


Unfortunately, Dish's definition of "ready", and the rest of the English-speaking world's definition of "ready" are mutually exclusive.

Dish means "ready-to-sell", while the average customer wants one that's "ready-to-use".


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

garypen said:


> Dish means "ready-to-sell", while the average customer wants one that's "ready-to-use".


LOL! Truer words have never been spoken. :lol:


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## jforkner (Mar 17, 2004)

kmcnamara said:


> It's not HDTV that's the problem. HDTV is excellent so you shouldn't just sit on the sidelines. Try to get an inexpensive HDTV receiver, either SAT or OTA. You'll be glad you did (assuming you have a decent HDTV display).


I realize it's not HDTV, per se. Unfortunately, satellite is the only broadcast television source in my location---no cable, no OTA. So, for me, SD (and HDTV) have become Dish Network. And like RH26, I've become addicted to my PVR---hence my desire for an HDTV PVR receiver. But with all the problems being documented on the 921, I can't see jumping on the HDTV just yet. Perhaps when the 942 gets released&#8230;

Jack


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## Unclejeff (Mar 10, 2004)

Wow; Do the Dish people read these posts? Here we are: loyal customers.

R-E-A-L-L-Y pissed-off.

Are we the co-dependant spouse of a self-absorbed alchoholic?

Where is the decent OTA reception? How come most of your products don't have a digital (toslink) audio feed? Why do I have to keep re-booting? Why is there no 'there',....there?


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I'm not sure Dish reads all of the forums (perhaps just the 921 one, since it is semi-official and supported by Mark). However, I would guess that they understand that there are some customers who are not that thrilled with various issues in the products. Nonetheless, we are the vocal but very small minority; most folks who have the receivers use them and generally don't have too many complaints.

In answer to your specific complaints... The 921 has a digital toslink audio feed, so that's a non-issue. I don't know which other receivers require constant rebooting at the moment, but it can't be that many.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Slordak said:


> I'm not sure Dish reads all of the forums (perhaps just the 921 one, since it is semi-official and supported by Mark). However, I would guess that they understand that there are some customers who are not that thrilled with various issues in the products. Nonetheless, we are the vocal but very small minority; most folks who have the receivers use them and generally don't have too many complaints.
> 
> In answer to your specific complaints... The 921 has a digital toslink audio feed, so that's a non-issue. I don't know which other receivers require constant rebooting at the moment, but it can't be that many.


The 811 needs rebooting 1-2 times a week if you want your guide data to stay correct. It does not lock up or require the reboot to view channels, and the timers have always worked without reboots. It just seems to get the channels all mixed up in the guide regularly so if you want to straiten it out you have to reboot.


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## laker (Dec 19, 2003)

rh26 said:


> Sure, I can get an 811 or a straight OTA reciever for about $300(ish) but--curse you Dish Network!--I've become addicted to my PVR. How can I watch "live" TV without a Pause button?
> 
> I can't! I won't!!


I had an 811 installed on Sunday and I use it for HD exclusively (I also had an additional feed brought into the house). I've kept my DVR 501 for SD viewing and recording (Yes, I can't live without the DVR features either). The HD images on the HDNet and HD-Discovery channels are excellent. I don't see much difference in HD vs SD movie channels in the little time I have viewed them. A lot of the HD programming is repeated in the same week, so I have several chances to view them over the course of a week or two. The cost of the upgrade was $149 vs. the $999 I'm willing to spend on the 921.

Is saving $850 (and tons of buggy frustration) but losing the luxury of recording/pausing HD for a couple of hours a week worth it? You bet. If the delays in the 921 have taught me anything - it's patience (albeit forced patience). I'm going to wait for the 942 and enjoy what I have now.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

I called a local Dish dealer and was told not to buy the 921 that the hard drives go bad quickly. I do not recall reading anything about that hear. Did I miss something. Anyone had the hard drive go out on a 921.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

No one I've heard of has had a single problem like that.

The 921 uses high-end Maxtor drives designed specifically for use in DVRs. It's probably the only "right" part of the whole box.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

Does Dish plan to add name based recording to the 921. If so, have they projected an add date.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

jerryez said:


> Does Dish plan to add name based recording to the 921. If so, have they projected an add date.


This is thoroughly discussed elsewhere. Short answer is yes. As for dates, if you ever believe any date E* gives, I've got a bridge to sell you.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

"later this year" for NBR on the 921.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

Thanks, I thought I had read it elsewhere, but after reading so much on the 921, it all begins to run together.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

jerryez said:


> I called a local Dish dealer and was told not to buy the 921 that the hard drives go bad quickly. I do not recall reading anything about that hear. Did I miss something. Anyone had the hard drive go out on a 921.


He's just mad that he hasn't been able to get any and wants you to by an SD PVR from him in the meantime.

It goes without saying though that ANYONE buying a E* PVR (I've got 4) should pony up for the extended warranty. I've still got the limited $1.99 plan active, but I hear only the $4.99 soup to nuts plan is available now if you haven't gotten it yet.......


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## TedKaz (Mar 1, 2004)

jerryez said:


> I called a local Dish dealer and was told not to buy the 921 that the hard drives go bad quickly. I do not recall reading anything about that hear. Did I miss something. Anyone had the hard drive go out on a 921.


My first 921 had the hard drive crash. The second 921 is doing OK so far. (Other than the typical bugs we know about)


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

BobMurdoch said:


> It goes without saying though that ANYONE buying a E* PVR (I've got 4) should pony up for the extended warranty. I've still got the limited $1.99 plan active, but I hear only the $4.99 soup to nuts plan is available now if you haven't gotten it yet.......


I added the $1.99 warranty plan this year and was told that at the end of 2004, everyone would be forced over to the $4.99 plan and that the $1.99 plan was going away after 2004. So I think we'll all be forced on to this next year.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

That's OK..... With 4 PVRs it's a necessary investment either way....... I'm waiting for one of my two Dishplayers to die since they are both pushing 4 years old. Hard drive have a nasty tendency to flake out starting at that age, so I'm keeping the insurance just in case.


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