# FROM MARK: L188 OTA Problems?



## Mark Lamutt

Here we go again... 

Under L188, are you experiencing OTA problems? That is, do you have any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot?

Once again, if particular stations are causing you problems, please report those stations in this thread, providing contact information for the stations if possible. At the very least, please provide the following information:

station call letters and city where station is located
the digital broadcast channel
the PSIP remapped channel
is the station broadcasting PSIP data
do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
can you record successfully from the channel
do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
do timers set for the channel fire correctly

The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for the programmers to fix the bugs in L189.

Thanks once again for your participation in this data collection thread.


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## Florindi

I still cannot use DVR functions on BOSTON NBC 42-1 aka 007-1


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## indyras

L188 did not fix the problems that I have been experiencing with my local NBC affiliate since L184 was downloaded.

Here is the information requested by Mark:

Station: WTHR, the NBC affiliate for Indianapolis, Indiana
Digital Broadcast Channel: 46
PSIP Remapped Channel: 013-01
Is The Station Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
Do The DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
Can I Record Sucessfully From This Channel? No
Do I Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.

The contact person at this station is:
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
[email protected]


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## pdlittle

KCRG in Cedar Rapids does not display reliably. Sometimes I can get it to display in the HD side (52.2) but never on the SD side (52.1). Usually the display goes black and the 921 will sometimes hang and require rebooting. Other times when it goes black I can successfully change to another channel. I have not been able to determine a sequence or scenario that will produce either a properly working display of the channel or the failure to display the channel. It seems to be very random.


KCRG (channel 9) in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Digital broadcast channel is 52
PSIP remapped channel is 52.1 and 52.2
Unsure if the station broadcasting PSIP data. If they are it may not be properly formatted.
Trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with this channel when it will display.
I cannot record successfully from the channel
I do get 0 second recordings from the channel
Timers set for the channel do seem to fire correctly
*Mailing Address
*KCRG-TV / The Zone ESPN Radio 1600
P.O. Box 816
Cedar Rapids, IA 52406

KCRG Engineering
Comments and Questions for KCRG's Engineering Department can be sent to [email protected]

Paul


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## Mike D-CO5

The only channel I am having any problems with is my nbc station. KBTV Channel 04-01 in Beaumont , Texas. I can't use my skip button on any recording off this station or it will lock up my receiver , and then I have to reboot. This hasn't changed with any of the software updates.

Boot: 120B
Flash:F051
L188HECD-N
Output: 1080i
ASpect: 16x9
DVi output/s-video output


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## Skates

KCOP-LA Digital 66 - Black Screen 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L188

KCOP Los Angeles.
Analog 13, Digital 66, maps to 66.1

Scan locks the channel now (was not working until L187), however, when I tune to it, all I get is a black screen. Have confirmed channel is up and I'm receiving very strong signal.

(Mark, this is basically a cut & paste from my L187 bug post - nothing has changed)


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## Todd G.

WTVR, Richmond Virginia. I get signal at 117 and lock but can't save channel. This started at version 186 and continues in 188. I get 7 other channels without problems.
(This is basically a cut and paste from 187)

Boot version: 120B
Flash version: F051
SW version: L188HECD-N

Station: WTVR
Location: Richmond Virginia
Digital Channel: 25-1
PSIP: I don't think so
Contact: Don Cox
Email him: [email protected]


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## boylehome

KRCR (Digital 34 1-2), Redding, CA. Signal over 100. Will lock in both SCAN and ADD DTV. Channel is not routed to another number. Station is not including PSIP. When tuning to the channels, I only get a black screen with no audio. Digital channel 34 Works fine with models 811 and 6000.


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## bytre

I get the same problem as Skates with KCOP in Los Angeles.


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## Jerry G

In Los Angeles:

Same problem as the others with KCOP. Strong signal, but can't be added to the guide.

Also, the same old KCET problem. Strong signal, can be added to the guide, can be tuned in. But NO DVR capabities. A timed recording results in a 0 minute recording. Same problem that's existed for 8 months, and presumably will never be fixed if it hasn't been fixed by now!


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## BobinStLouis

Still having problems adding any of the following channel in St. Louis (almost all can get a lock, but cannot add any of them)

KDNL-DT ( ABC )
DTV Ch(s): 31

KETC-DT ( PBS )
DTV Ch(s): 9.1 9.2 9.3

KMOV-DT ( CBS )
DTV Ch(s): 56

KPLR-DT ( WB )
DTV Ch(s): 11-1(26)

KSDK-DT ( NBC )
DTV Ch(s): 35

KTVI-DT ( FOX )
DTV Ch(s): 43


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## FaxMan

I'd have to say that my reception seems to have improved under 188.

I've only been able to receive 3 OTA stations in the past, but have had to fiddle with the antenna (Megawave amplified indoor) to get them to come in clearly.

Today, I was able to surf the channels and their sub-channels without leaving the couch.

I could be good atmospheric conditions after hurricane Frances departed, but the 921 seems to have improved its ability to find and lock the signal. YMMV

=FaxMan


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## dishbacker

FaxMan, I was noticing the same results last night after the install. I have one channel that has been iffy since I did a big re-adjustment on my antenna... to the point that it wouldn't come up at all... and after L188 last night, the channel came up just fine in one second. Looked fine. Will test it out some more tonight, and it could just be a coincedence, but so far, so good.


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## Redster

indyras said:


> L188 did not fix the problems that I have been experiencing with my local NBC affiliate since L184 was downloaded.
> 
> Here is the information requested by Mark:
> 
> Station: WTHR, the NBC affiliate for Indianapolis, Indiana
> Digital Broadcast Channel: 46
> PSIP Remapped Channel: 013-01
> Is The Station Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
> Do The DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
> Can I Record Sucessfully From This Channel? No
> Do I Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
> Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.
> 
> The contact person at this station is:
> Al Grossniklaus
> Director of Engineering and Operations
> [email protected]


Same for me,, all other Indy channels seem okay. This did work back on L182 and station manager told me in an email that nothing changed as far as signal goes.


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## JackS

Florindi said:


> I still cannot use DVR functions on BOSTON NBC 42-1 aka 007-1


I used to be able to get this station by scanning it in every day. During the Olympics they were showing the HD feed. Around the end of the Olympics, I stopped being able to acquire the digital station. Now what happens is I do an Add DTV, enter 42, get a lock at around 110, and save. What then appears is channel 7 Analog in my list of stations, and then on the screen. I delete that station and try again, but the same thing happens. There is no change with L188. This station is WHDH/NBC. Previously I was unable to record the digital channel or use any DVR functions, but the picture was wonderful.

I have also had the ongoing problem of having to reacqire channel 05-02 every night, even though 05-01 remains day to day. This is WCVB in Boston (ABC). This is not of major concern since the primary station is there.


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## rixhd

KTWB Seattle, WA Channel 22-01, RF channel 25, WB local
No trick Play
Cannot record.
Get 0 second recording.
Do not have this problem with 9 other OTA DT local channels


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## ggivens

All my locals in San Antonio have DVR functions except for the local ABC.

Station: KSAT, the ABC affiliate for San Antonio, TX
Digital Broadcast Channel: 48
PSIP Remapped Channel: 012-01
Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
Record Sucessfully From This Channel? No
Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.


__________________
Dish DVR-921
Software Version: L188HECD-N
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052


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## alipka

I continue to have problems with:
WPSG-DT, Philadelphia
57-1 (57)
It appears to have PSIP data broadcast
No DVR trick play functions work with this channel - but they do work on the other OTA channels from Philadelphia
Cannot record successfully from the channel, I do get 0 second recordings from this channel
OTA times don't fire correctly from this channel

This is the Star Trek: Enterprise channel, so please fix this by October, or I will be unable to record the new season of HD Enterprise!!!


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## JOBY

Ch 42, Austin TX CBS No sub channels, won't record, pause, or any trick play functions. Timed recordings show to be recording but yield a "0" length.


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## rbyers

OK, here's my current summary of KNOWN problems with my 921 in Los Angeles. Please note that I have a strong signal for all LA channels, with a short, clear shot to Mt Wilson. I should get 20 digital stations with more than 37 subchannels .... I don't. I get 17 Stations with a total of 34 subchannels.

Problems remaining (and new) with L188.

1. PBS (ch 59 remapped to 28-1 (HD), 28-2 (SD). Cannot record, pause, backup, or use any othe DVR functions on 28-1, the HD channel. This hasn't changed during the time I've had my 921.

2. KCOP (the local UPN station). Can now lock and acquire a strong signal, and the station is added to the list as 66-1, and 66-2. This is an improvement. However, I'm not sure that there is a 66-2. In any event, there is no audio or video on either 66-1 or 66-2. And, I get the message "could not find 66-1 .... etc, and so on".

3. NEW PROBLEM KCAL (Channel 43, remaps as 9-1). This is a Viacom owned channel. I can no longer add this channel BEGINNING WITH L188. On 187 I reported that when I add digital channel 9-1, the system also adds 9-0 the analog channel. With L188, I now get 9-0 only when I try to add the digital channel. I'm not interested in adding analog stuff.

4. NOT A PROBLEM: OPERATOR ERROR _I cannot Add KDOC. If I try to manually add (KDOC Ch 32 .. 32-1), the system says that it has a strong signal .. ~120 .. and it locks and acquires. But, after saving, it does not show up in the list of channels._

5. NEW PROBLEM. When I scan for DTV channels the system finds 17 stations with 34 subchannels. BUT, it also adds 4 analog channels. 5-0, 9-0, 50-0, and 62-0.

I certainly don't think that much has been done in the OTA area.


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## evyst

Here is the information requested:

Station: WTVG, the ABC affiliate for Toledo, OH
Digital broadcast channel: 19
PSIP remapped channel: 013-01
Is the station broadcasting PSIP: ? How do I know this?
Do the DVR functions work with this channel: No
Can I record this channel: No
Do I get 0 sec. recordings from this channel: Yes
Do timers set for this channel fire correctly: Yes, but with no results.

You can contact WTVG at:http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg


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## mfrodsha

Remapped Channel 002 (local CBS - KUTV) has no DVR functions, albeit coming in crystal freaking clear in digital.

Remapped Channels 013-1 and 013-2 (local Fox - KSTU) come in spotty, if at all, even though locked. They used to come in strong, back around L185 or so.

All other local digital/HD channels come in marvelously, with full DVR functionalty


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## tuckercom

Tulsa, OK OTA Problems

station call letters and city where station is located
KJRH, KOTV, KTUL - All in Tulsa

the digital broadcast channel
KJRH 56, KOTV 55, KTUL 10 

the PSIP remapped channel
KJRH 02-1, KOTV 06-1, KTUL 08-1 

is the station broadcasting PSIP data
Not sure

do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
No

can you record successfully from the channel
No

do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
Yes

do timers set for the channel fire correctly
No


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## DonLandis

In the future, if you are having problems seeing a local channel that you know exists and at one time, prior to L187 was viewable, find out if the station is sending PSIP. It is a known requirement now that L187 + requires PSIP to receive the channel. FWIW, the FCC finally made PSIP on the ATSC channels a requirement as for the fixed data (as of August 4th) Your station that does not send the basic fixed data PSIP after a 30 day grace period may be in violation unless they posess a waiver of delay from the FCC. Some do have this.

In addition, the station must have the PSIP tables correctly configured and not have multiple PSIP signals in conflict in their plant to work properly with all receivers and PVR's. Digital TV is a very complex system and like we know in computer software, one wrong line of code can screw the system. All this is new to the station engineers and they may not always get it right the first time.

I would like to suggest that in all future bug reports you list the local station along with the PSIP status, such as WXYZ(No PSIP) or WXYZ(PSIP enabled). How will you know? The simplest way is, if you can receive it the station is PSIP enabled. If you can't receive it, call the station and ask the *engineer*- Are you sending PSIP fixed data ( station call sign, channel remap number, and clock)?


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## sgt940

I just want to add I have not had a single OTA failure in Dallas since 186. Not one loss or re-boot or week signal. I have a very old box and it was a disaster prior to 186. Looks like they could duplicate the fixes for the Dallas stations to other areas.


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## chuckbernard

Well, my local NBC station in Reno Nevada began broadcasting the PSIP information late last week and BOOM the 921 locked in and remapped them to channel 4-1 & 4-2. No more black screen! Both come in perfectly and I'm finally happy!

To get it to work, I needed to delete the old 7-1 station which was showing the black screen. Now, they are still broadcasting on ATSC channel 7 but as soon as you lock and save, they appear as 4-1 and 4-2. The station call letters are now broadcast too and appear in the guide.

It just goes to show that it is the lack of PSIP information which was causing my particular problem. Unless, of course, there was some other problem solved at the same exact instant they started broadcasting the PSIP information ;-)


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## boylehome

Chuckbernard - This is most excellent news. Are they broadcasting in HD? Do you have content information? I was in conversation with the Chief Engineer at one of our local station that has no PSIP. I guess it is quite expensive for the equipment. I think they are looking for alternatives. I hope they get it soon. According to a thread that was posted, FCC now requires PSIP as of August.
PS I was in Reno recently. Loved it. :joy:


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## tuckercom

That's great news. I get all my ota chanels so I guess the PSIP is working with these channels but I'm not getting any trick functions. Very frustrating.


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## chuckbernard

boylehome said:


> Chuckbernard - This is most excellent news. Are they broadcasting in HD? Do you have content information? I was in conversation with the Chief Engineer at one of our local station that has no PSIP. I guess it is quite expensive for the equipment. I think they are looking for alternatives. I hope they get it soon. According to a thread that was posted, FCC now requires PSIP as of August.
> PS I was in Reno recently. Loved it. :joy:


Yes, the 4-1 is in 1080i and the 4-2 is the standard 4:3 but is still digital and pretty good. However, there still isn't any extra information or anything.

Still, for the first time in more than 4 years I finally have the 3 major networks in HD. Fox is broadcasting from another tower too far away to receive.


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## Larry

I am unable to receive 28-1 (WFTS-ABC) in the Tampa area. It broadcasts on channel 29. It comes in great on my 811, but there seems to be no way to add it to the 921. When I scan DTV it adds 28-0 but not 28-1. When I add DTV (29) the signal strength is in the area of 120, but the same result occurs...28-0 is added.

I'm quite certain I was able to receive this station while using previous software revisions. With the signal as strong as it is, added to the fact that the 811 tunes in this channel just fine, I'd have to guess it's a 921 problem.

Sorry not to have reported this earlier, but I seldom watch ABC during the summer months. Now, with MNF and the new fall programming, I really miss the HDTV.


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## deweybrunner

larry, I live in Lutz, fl, about 30 miles from channel 28 tower. I have an attic Radio Shack Tampa Bay special antenna. My stength meter reads over 100, views and records with no problem. Also, I get all stations here in Tampa. Tweaking your antenna might help. Good luck.


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## Larry

deweybrunner said:


> larry, I live in Lutz, fl, about 30 miles from channel 28 tower. I have an attic Radio Shack Tampa Bay special antenna. My stength meter reads over 100, views and records with no problem. Also, I get all stations here in Tampa. Tweaking your antenna might help. Good luck.


First of all, I hope you made it through this weekend's storm OK. Other than a few flying shingles, we did all right here in Clearwater...but this stuff is sure getting old.

I'm glad you can get 28 on your 921. I have tweaked my rooftop antenna with a meter and get a strength of about 120 on the 921, but the station just won't add. It's just fine on the 811 in another room. Digital channels 3, 8, 13, 16, 32, 38, 44, and 66 are all in the same area and they come in just fine.

Oh the joys of beta testing. :nono2:


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## JackS

Now that we are going on one month since the L188 release, and many problems have been reported on lost channel reception and/or no DVR capability on certain powerful stations, is there any expectation this will be fixed in the next release?

Jack S
Boston


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## deweybrunner

Larry, I had similar problems a few months ago. i tried totally deleting all ota stations, hard rebooting several times, then adding them back totally, and with the ones giving problems I added manually. Finally, all come in with no problems. Someone else might have a suggestion, especially if one 921 makes good reception and comes in, and another won't in the same city. I love my 921 and have learned to work around the few problems left for software to fix.


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## tuckercom

deweybrunner said:


> i tried totally deleting all ota stations, hard rebooting several times, then adding them back totally, and with the ones giving problems I added manually. Finally, all come in with no problems.


Deweybrunner- when you were having OTA problems, were you not getting any signal strength, or were you getting the channels but w/o any dvr functions( pause, record, etc.)?


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## deweybrunner

Tucker, I just wasn't getting signal strength. i.e. I just was not getting the station to come in. I've never had problems with dvr functions with ota stations. Finally, after trying all I could to glean from the threads, with similar problems, Mine all came in. Personally, I think a lot of problems many have are from incorrect antenna type and installation. I learned that lesson, also. In some cities ota towers are in different directions from each other. In Tampa, CBS tower is in the opposite direction from all others, therefore, I had to use a special antenna (two in one) with one pointed at CBS and the other to the others.(got from Radio Shack)


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## jchamlin

Station call letters: WFTC-DT
City where station is located: Minneapolis, MN
Digital broadcast channel: 21-1 and 21-2
The PSIP remapped channel: supposed to be 29-1 and 29-2 (they are analog 29) except they are not broadcasting PSIP data.
is the station broadcasting PSIP data? No (confirmed with UPN station)

I've got it connected to a nice OTA antenna and I get great signal strength on all analog and digital channels. Basically, everything TitanTV's digital and analog guides say I should get I do get. With one exception.

21-1 and 21-2 (WFTC-DT) which is UPN (29's) digital channels have 125 signal strength (the max the meter goes up to) so I have great strength. I think I have line of sight to the towers from my house. Anyway, I get a channel name of NONE and they show up on the wrong channel, they should be 29-1 and 29-2 (which now I know is because UPN isn't broadcasing PSIP data yet) but I also get a black screen with no audio on 21-1 and 21-2) and as well when tuned to 21-1 or 21-2 the response time of my 921 to the remote control goes from about 0.5 seconds to about 4 seconds (like it is stuck/broken/busy trying to decode a signal it cannot). I have the latest software on my 921 (L188 I believe is the latest release which downloaded a few weeks ago, and it didn't work with L186 or L187 either). Anyone have a Dish PVR-921 and successfully receive 21-1 and 21-2 in Minneapolis? I'd like to know if it is a bug with the Dish PVR-921, or a problem with just my unit. 

By reading this form, it appears this black screen with no audio is a condition which exists elsewhere in other cities with channels that are not broadcasting PSIP data. Has this been confirmed?

Anyone else wanna check the reponse times to their remote control (channel changing, bringing up the guide, etc) and see how much different it is on the blacked out channel vs. a normal channel.

Thanks in advance. 

-J.C.


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## boylehome

I still don't see why the OTA turner can't be configured to allow the station to have audio and video even if it isn't broadcasting PSIP. For those in the thread that have locals with digital and no PSIP, do they provide closed captioning?


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## JackS

deweybrunner said:


> Larry, I had similar problems a few months ago. i tried totally deleting all ota stations, hard rebooting several times, then adding them back totally, and with the ones giving problems I added manually. Finally, all come in with no problems. Someone else might have a suggestion, especially if one 921 makes good reception and comes in, and another won't in the same city. I love my 921 and have learned to work around the few problems left for software to fix.


I tried this approach last night and successfully locked onto WHDH (NBC), channel 7 in Boston after getting only the analog channel for weeks. However, it still cannot be used with any DVR functions, but at least I can now watch NBC programs in HD as long as I do it live.

Jack S
Boston
921 since mid January
L188


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## JackS

deweybrunner said:


> Larry, I had similar problems a few months ago. i tried totally deleting all ota stations, hard rebooting several times, then adding them back totally, and with the ones giving problems I added manually. Finally, all come in with no problems. Someone else might have a suggestion, especially if one 921 makes good reception and comes in, and another won't in the same city. I love my 921 and have learned to work around the few problems left for software to fix.


I tried this approach last night and successfully locked onto WHDH (NBC), channel 7 in Boston after getting only the analog channel for weeks. However, it still cannot be used with any DVR functions, but at least I can now watch NBC programs in HD as long as I do it live.

Jack S
Boston
921 since mid January
L188


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## Larry

deweybrunner said:


> Larry, I had similar problems a few months ago. i tried totally deleting all ota stations, hard rebooting several times, then adding them back totally, and with the ones giving problems I added manually. Finally, all come in with no problems.


Thanks for the idea. It worked perfectly. All digital channels are now coming in...I didn't even have to add any manually. Unlike you, and fortunately for me, we are close enough to channel 10's tower to not require a special antenna (probably could pick up 10 with a coat hanger :lol: ).


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## kengaz

Mark Lamutt said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> Under L188, are you experiencing OTA problems? That is, do you have any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot?
> 
> Once again, if particular stations are causing you problems, please report those stations in this thread, providing contact information for the stations if possible. At the very least, please provide the following information:
> 
> station call letters and city where station is located
> the digital broadcast channel
> the PSIP remapped channel
> is the station broadcasting PSIP data
> do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
> can you record successfully from the channel
> do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
> do timers set for the channel fire correctly
> 
> The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for the programmers to fix the bugs in L189.
> 
> Thanks once again for your participation in this data collection thread.


Two stations: KYMA (CBS); KSWT (CBS) Yuma AZ
Digital station is KSWT (CBS)
Sorry I don't know what PSIP means (011 - 013? respectively)
Have not tried to record 
The signal of the digital is weak (so I have not bothered to lock it) but the picture is very good.

The non-digital picture is blurry but when viewed with the 501 it was very clear.

Using a Turk antenna


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## skassan

I used to be able to receive WVTM, Birmingham AL just fine. It seems to have disappeared on October 1. When tuning to the station, I just got a black screen and no sound. I tried resetting to factory defaults, and rescanning. Now it doesn't show up. If I try to manually add it, I get a signal lock, but after I press save it's still not in the list.

Attempts to contact the engineering department at the station have been unsuccessful so far, so I can't comment on the PSIP questions.

Station is 052-01.


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## harlock328

Station call letters: WFTC-DT
City where station is located: Minneapolis, MN
Digital broadcast channel: 21-1 and 21-2

Lock (takes awhile) but doesn't show anything on the screen...just black not sound either. Same problem as Jchamlin

Station call letters: KARE-DT
City where station is located: Minneapolis, MN
Digital broadcast channel: 35 mapped to 11.1
Not able to record (this just started) getting 0 recordings and unable to use any DVR functions.


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## mbski

boylehome said:


> KRCR (Digital 34 1-2), Redding, CA. Signal over 100. Will lock in both SCAN and ADD DTV. Channel is not routed to another number. Station is not including PSIP. When tuning to the channels, I only get a black screen with no audio. Digital channel 34 Works fine with models 811 and 6000.


Exactly the same problem, 921, KRCR, Redding. Please let me know any further info as you seem to be very knowledgeable about this and other concerns. thanx my name is mike.


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## boylehome

mbski said:


> Exactly the same problem, 921, KRCR, Redding. Please let me know any further info as you seem to be very knowledgeable about this and other concerns. thanx my name is mike.


The OTA tuner in the 921, from what I've read, in various threads, is different than most and needs certain data to work properly. For whatever reason, the 921 will not show stations that fail to include PSIP. I'm hoping that the software engineers did a work around for this in software revision L189. There is more to this than just channel mapping. As you can see the only thing that shows is the channel number. I have a model 6000 that works just fine with KRCR 34 1-2. At least KRCR does broadcast parent network HD content. I don't know if you get the other locals such as PBS, FOX, NBC, and CBS. They at least have PSIP and Closed Captioning. Fox used to broadcast HD content but for the past two months are only broadcasting 480i SD. NBC and CBS are owned by the same corporation. They are only low power and are not broadcasting in HD at all. I have talked to the Chief Engineers of all of the stations, except PBS. KRCR has to buy PSIP equipment that they say in around $18,000. Big expense for them. NBC/CBS must just be too poor. The engineer for them said that it will be around the end of 2006 before they go full power and HD content will come later maybe by 2009. PBS got a lot of grant money and they will be adding translators to rebroadcast HD. Respective to ABC, they do not seem to be in any hurry to upgrade and unless there is a workaround for the tuner in the 921, we are stuck with a black screen and no video. It may be worth you while to contact the Chief Engineer at KRCR to get the scoop for yourself. Having talked with the Chiefs, they think there are only maybe one or two people with HD in our area. I'm one of them. I hope this is some help.
By the way, do you get the other OTA's? What kind of antenna are you using? BTW, I'm John.


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## mquattrone

Sorry about the delay. I have been out of the country, just got back last weekend and went to watch the new West Wing last night I couldn't get the signal anymore. I don't get any picture at all, nothing. I did everything listed in this forum without any luck. Information below.

Station: WRC, the NBC affiliate for Washington, DC
Digital Broadcast Channel: 48
PSIP Remapped Channel: 004-01
Is The Station Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
Do The DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No. No Display
Can I Record Sucessfully From This Channel? No. No Display
Do I Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? No. No Display
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? No. No Display

WRC
8750 Brookville Rd, Silver Spring, MD 20910
(301) 588-3593


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## lapplegate

Today, I noticed 2 OTA Digital timers, did not fire for Saturday night. Both timers were on the same OTA channel (011-01) and I have never before had this problem. Both DVR events show as 0 sec.

*This station is* WHAS (ABC) in Louisville, Ky.
*The digital channel is  55 and it remaps to 011-01.*
*I believe the station uses PSIP data.*
*Trick play does not work*. If I hit FF it will pause. The time in the pause banner does not move and I cant unpause it, until I change the channel & return. It will then be in live play.
*It will show rec in the browse and DVR*, but will end with 0 sec.. I have tried by: From guide, set up SD local then edit the channel to the digital channel. Create it from the menu or by manual record, while on the station. 
*All timers fire but the DVR shows 0 sec*.
*All timers for this channel fire and end correctly.*

All my other OTA digitals are fine, as they have always been.
It appears something changed at WHAS.

I have tried: power cord boot, front panel boot, smart card pull, delete & re-add WHAS through the scan & add DTV methods.
When trying to manually record the sub channel (011-02) an odd thing happened, the DVR showed it as "Taking Lives / PPV" and it was also 0 sec.

WHAS Contact Info: [email protected]

As I said this has just started. 
Larry


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## mbski

Basically I only have one antenna for KIXE 9-1 9-2. And of course KRCR 34-1 34-2 with black screen. Ive Tried 2 Different antennas, trying to grab the chico channels {knvn-dt, khsl-dt, kcvu-dt} of course you know these are CBS, NBC & FOX. No luck grabbing the digital signals I get it to spike on an off at 1 sec intervals but never a steady signal. The 2 antennas Ive tried are Winegard square shooter, Zenith GEMDTV1. Both claim to have a range for uhf of 60 miles. I also tried several combinatoins of amplifiers.I live at the far north end of churn creek rd. kinda down in a small valley? Im thinking of trying a channel master model 4228? But since youve told me about the quality non hd content and no fox, Im thinking i might not? I will contact KRCR. Just to let you know I called Fox today and talked to the chief engineer, and they have money and are aquiring the goods to get 720i to us. Ws told by the end of the year? Im trying to get a satellite waiver from KHSL to get hd CBS, But who knows? I can get an R.V. waiver from dish and get out of market networks with a choice of 4 cities, atlanta, chicago, new york, and LA. But they tell me they are just analog transmitted via dbs thru dish. It just really sucks that its out there if your in a city that has money. But here noway. Maybe someday I dont know. Anyhow I appreciate your response and will keep in touch. Thanx Mike


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## boylehome

A deep fringe antenna may work for you if you can get it high enough. I've heard good things about the square shooter. Chances are you are too deep in the hole to get the line of sight that you need. I'm sorry to hear that FOX has to wait until the end of this year to get their HD back. Maybe they were using a loaner as they were broadcasting 720p up until 2.5 months ago.  The 720p is just a little fuzzier then the 1080i on my monitor. Now ABC is most excellent on my 6000. Tonights game between Den. and Cin. is picture perfect and it looks '3D'. Seeing the definition in the turf and every other detail is amazing. I think that PBS picture is a little on the course side (not complaining). I live off on Churn Creek Rd. too. Maybe that is why I can't get NBC and CBS, but no big deal since they are just 480i 4:3 and have no plans to change for years. Sorry I couldn't be of more help but am here if you need anything.

John


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## Stingray

Since the 921 was new in July '04, I have had problems with only one station, WXYZ, ABC Channel 7(sd) / 41(hd) in Detroit, MI. It took over three dozen trys to get a lock on the HD signal with the 921 with signal strength of 125. (Dish 6000 rcvr had no such problem). Since getting a lock on the signal in August, the 921 has kept it thru all reboots, etc.

I have never lost signal lock any of my eight HD stations.

WXYZ channel 41 Detroit has the following:

They do broadcast static PSIP info. (channel id info. only, no program guide or CC).

remap is 007-01.

all trick play functions work in both live and play-back modes.

Considerable DELAY in displaying the program is ALWAYS encountered when switching to this channel. A blank screen is displayed with or without the "Channel 7-1 not found, press up/down or wait" message for at least 5 seconds up to infinity, before the program is displayed. It often requires repeated switching from anoother OTA channel to 007-01 before it locks in.

I can record OTA programs - BUT triggers often fail to fire, or if they do fire (and record), the screen is often blank and requires much screwing around with going first to the DVR display and selecting VIEW to bring the picture on-line.

Often I am unable to view the channel after recording has begun and get an error message "unable to view this channel since OTA tuner is in use" (not exact wording). A front panel reboot usually clears this problem and allows me to view the OTA channel I am recording.

No zero second recordings since L188

Station Contact: Demetri 'Trip' Kraniak III 
Engineering Supervisor 
248-827-9439 


Stingray


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## harlock328

Station call letters: KARE-DT
City where station is located: Minneapolis, MN
Digital broadcast channel: 35 mapped to 11.1

Doesn't lock. Signal strength @ 115+


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## mbski

Just thought I would let you know if you dont already. This morning 10-30-2004 I now have a picture and audio for channel 34-1! WOW what happened? Still software version L188-HECD-N. No program guide but hey at least i can watch it! No reboot or anything just all of a sudden bamm there it is? I hope yours is the same!

Mike


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## mbski

boylehome said:


> KRCR (Digital 34 1-2), Redding, CA. Signal over 100. Will lock in both SCAN and ADD DTV. Channel is not routed to another number. Station is not including PSIP. When tuning to the channels, I only get a black screen with no audio. Digital channel 34 Works fine with models 811 and 6000.


From mbski
On 10-30-2004 am now have picture and audio for channel 34-1! Software version L-188-HECD-N. No reboot just all of a sudden there it is! No channel description or guide info, but at least i can watch it now! Also my freind has 921 same software and his still doesnt have any pic. or audio, same area and channel? What gives, Im not complaining but why do I have it and he doesnt?
Well i hope you can get it now!
Mike


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## boylehome

mbski said:


> From mbski
> On 10-30-2004 am now have picture and audio for channel 34-1! Software version L-188-HECD-N. No reboot just all of a sudden there it is! No channel description or guide info, but at least i can watch it now! Also my freind has 921 same software and his still doesnt have any pic. or audio, same area and channel? What gives, Im not complaining but why do I have it and he doesnt?
> Well i hope you can get it now!
> Mike


Congratulations! I still don't have it. Does the channel now have PSIP and CC? Maybe I have a defective 921? Let me know what you did to make it work. I tried deleting all my digitals, did a factory reset and a power cord reboot, still no KRCR. 
John

PS - Do you get 34-02?


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## mbski

boylehome said:


> Congratulations! I still don't have it. Does the channel now have PSIP and CC? Maybe I have a defective 921? Let me know what you did to make it work. I tried deleting all my digitals, did a factory reset and a power cord reboot, still no KRCR.
> John
> 
> PS - Do you get 34-02?


Forgive me as im not as knowledgeable as you and I dont know what PSIP or CC means. Or how to tell if it is there or not. I can tell you this The channel still says none, and no guide or programming info. Also no 34-2

Mike


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## omendez

All the local digital channels in San Antonio can be recorded except for the local ABC and CBS channels. I have never been able to record the ABC local channel. I used to be able to record the CBS channel, but now I can’t. I don’t know what changed.

Station: KSAT, the ABC affiliate for San Antonio, TX
Digital Broadcast Channel: 48
PSIP Remapped Channel: 012-01
Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
Record Successfully From This Channel? No
Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.

Station: KENS, the CBS affiliate for San Antonio, TX
Digital Broadcast Channel: 55
PSIP Remapped Channel: 005-01
Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
Record Successfully From This Channel? No
Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.

Model: DishDVR921
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F051
Software Version: L188HECD-N
Location: RE40C696


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## Tweeterhead

Where do I get the remapped channel info and psip data info.


Channel 5 in Chicago NBC I think is channel 19 remapped, don't know about psip or how to find out if they are using it. All functions work on the channel, it just has to be resaved every other day or so.


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## Michael P

WJW-DT PSIP enabled (OTA ch 31 remaps to 008-01) No trick play functions - I have reported it on the bug forum before I found this thread.


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## dkeaton

Salt Lake City

I tried to record CSI Miami tonight on KUTV CBS affiliate in SLC.
Digital channel 34 remapped 002-1
Received 0 second recording.
Can not trick play


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## Michael P

mbski said:


> Forgive me as im not as knowledgeable as you and I dont know what PSIP or CC means. Or how to tell if it is there or not. I can tell you this The channel still says none, and no guide or programming info. Also no 34-2
> 
> Mike


PSIP is the digital "signiture" that the OTA station sends out along with the video and audio data. It basically tells your receiver the call letters and if there are any sub channels.

A station with no PSIP will "lock" but not "confirm" if you try to "Add DTV" in the local channels set-up menu.

CC is Closed Captions.


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## ggivens

Mark,
I have the same problem with the same channels. I don't think I have seen an answer to what is the cause of these problems which seems to be random all over the country. Is there a link or discussion that has said what the problem is? Is it something with the station and we need to get back to them? Is it something in the software? Is it fixable? Can we expect a fix in the next release this month?



omendez said:


> All the local digital channels in San Antonio can be recorded except for the local ABC and CBS channels. I have never been able to record the ABC local channel. I used to be able to record the CBS channel, but now I can't. I don't know what changed.
> 
> Station: KSAT, the ABC affiliate for San Antonio, TX
> Digital Broadcast Channel: 48
> PSIP Remapped Channel: 012-01
> Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
> DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
> Record Successfully From This Channel? No
> Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
> Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.
> 
> Station: KENS, the CBS affiliate for San Antonio, TX
> Digital Broadcast Channel: 55
> PSIP Remapped Channel: 005-01
> Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
> DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
> Record Successfully From This Channel? No
> Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
> Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.
> 
> Model: DishDVR921
> Boot Version: 120B
> Flash Version: F051
> Software Version: L188HECD-N
> Location: RE40C696


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## Mark Lamutt

I believe that just about all, if not all, of these issues will be fixed in the next software version (L210 now, scheduled for after Thanksgiving).


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## Michael P

Another "problem child" station in the Cleveland market: WOIO-DT. Analog:19, DT:10.
Maps to 019-1. There is a pulsation in part of the chroma (any color related to red). It takes a long time to lock when 019-01 is selected. Sometimes I have to go to the analog 19 just to watch.

Trick play works. 

FYI: Sister station to WOIO, WUAB analog 43, DT 28-1, abruptly signs off at 12 mindight while the analog signal is 24/7.  

UPDATE: WOIO is getting worse. In addition to the pulsing reds, I now get occasional lime green & pink vertical bars on the left and right hand sides of the picture. One time it got so bad that an entrie program had the bars on constantly (it was a paid program - maybe this is a good thing  ).


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## David K

All of my OTA digital stations available to me out of Dayton are coming in and DVR functions are working properly except one my CBS affiliate out of Dayton, the station tunes in fine but I have no trick play functions.


Station: WHIO, CBS affiliate for Dayton, OH
Digital Broadcast Channel: 41
PSIP Remapped Channel: 007-01
Broadcasting PSIP Data? Yes
DVR Trick Play Functions Work With This Channel? No
Record Successfully From This Channel? No
Get 0 Second Recordings From This Channel? Yes
Do Timers Set For This Channel Fire Correctly? Yes, but they result in 0 second recordings.


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## rprousseau

Mark Lamutt said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> Under L188, are you experiencing OTA problems? That is, do you have any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot?
> 
> Once again, if particular stations are causing you problems, please report those stations in this thread, providing contact information for the stations if possible. At the very least, please provide the following information:
> 
> station call letters and city where station is located
> the digital broadcast channel
> the PSIP remapped channel
> is the station broadcasting PSIP data
> do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
> can you record successfully from the channel
> do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
> do timers set for the channel fire correctly
> 
> The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for the programmers to fix the bugs in L189.
> 
> Thanks once again for your participation in this data collection thread.


Hello,
I added the OTA channel 66 KCOP in Los Angeles. My model 811 on the same dish and 500 quad switch gets the station just fine. However, the 921 locks the signal at 117 signal strength, but shows a black screen when I tune to it. The remapped channel is 13 (which is not shown when the channel is added). I don't know if PSIP data is broadcast or not.


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## Mr-Rick

I can confirm this... I'm in Brook Park



Michael P said:


> Another "problem child" station in the Cleveland market: WOIO-DT. Analog:19, DT:10.
> Maps to 019-1. There is a pulsation in part of the chroma (any color related to red). It takes a long time to lock when 019-01 is selected. Sometimes I have to go to the analog 19 just to watch.
> 
> Trick play works.
> 
> FYI: Sister station to WOIO, WUAB analog 43, DT 28-1, abruptly signs off at 12 mindight while the analog signal is 24/7.
> 
> UPDATE: WOIO is getting worse. In addition to the pulsing reds, I now get occasional lime green & pink vertical bars on the left and right hand sides of the picture. One time it got so bad that an entrie program had the bars on constantly (it was a paid program - maybe this is a good thing  ).


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## pesla5439

I'm a newbie in Cleveland and haven't had problems (yet) with channel 19. Channel 3 will not lock at all. I haven't seen 3-1 since I switched from directv to dish last week.

I also noticed that I cannot get any local digitals, locals, or hidef channels to save to a more manageable program guide (e.g. List 1). Anyone else have this problem?


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## E Swift

newbie here.

I just switched over from an 811 over to a 921. I received all OTA channels with my 811. Now with the 921 hooked up, SF Bay Area KGO 7 (ABC) is a black screen, although I receive everything else fine. Anybody else in the bay area w/ a 921 experiencing this? I sent an email to KGO7 to verify if they are indeed sending PSIP fixed data. Still waiting on that....So before I get on the roof to change my OTA antenna (Stealthtenna), I'd like to know if there is anything else I can do to resolve my issue.

Boot: 120B
Flash: F051
L188HECD-N
Output Mode: 1080i
Aspect Ratio: 16X9
DVI Output to a Sammy HLN56

Thanks in advance,
Ern


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## GHull

Mark Lamutt said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> Under L188, are you experiencing OTA problems? That is, do you have any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot?
> 
> Once again, if particular stations are causing you problems, please report those stations in this thread, providing contact information for the stations if possible. At the very least, please provide the following information:
> 
> station call letters and city where station is located
> the digital broadcast channel
> the PSIP remapped channel
> is the station broadcasting PSIP data
> do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
> can you record successfully from the channel
> do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
> do timers set for the channel fire correctly
> 
> The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for the programmers to fix the bugs in L189.
> 
> Thanks once again for your participation in this data collection thread.


New to the 921 and this forum, so I hope I post it correctly.

Over Thanksgiving weekend, the CBS and FOX stations can no longer be paused or recorded:

[*]station call letters and city: *KDKA & WPGH in Pittsburgh*
[*]digital broadcast channel: *KDKA 2.1* (was 25.1) / *WPGH 53.1*
[*]the PSIP remapped channel: KDKA 2 / WPGH 53 
[*]is the station broadcasting PSIP data: No
[*]do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel: *No*
[*]can you record successfully from the channel: *No*
[*]do you get 0 second recordings from the channel: *Yes*
[*]do timers set for the channel fire correctly: *No*

Both stations have strong signal and come in good. KDKA (CBS) switched from 25.1 to 2.1 and I lost functionality. WPGH (Fox) still at 53.1 but noticed Sunday it didn't record the football game.

I haven't gone thru the threads yet so don't beat me up. Charles from alt.dbs.echostar pointed me this way and thought I better get my info in ASAP for L188.

This question maybe premature, but is this have anything to do with broadcast flags or is that a future issue? KDKA is a CBS / Viacom owned station and will be one of the first to implement flags.

Thanks....


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## Michael P

Mr-Rick said:


> I can confirm this... I'm in Brook Park


Thanks Mr. Rick. So WOIO must be having problems (or it's another 921 bug .  )

If WOIO-DT is having problems now, I'd hate to see what it will look like next summer during "skip" season. Before WOIO-DT signed on ch 10, CFPL-TV from London, Ontario came in almost as clear as the local Cleveland stations.

Anybody in Cleveland with an 811 or 6000 - do you have the same problem on WOIO?


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## Michael P

pesla5439 said:


> I'm a newbie in Cleveland and haven't had problems (yet) with channel 19. Channel 3 will not lock at all. I haven't seen 3-1 since I switched from directv to dish last week.
> 
> I also noticed that I cannot get any local digitals, locals, or hidef channels to save to a more manageable program guide (e.g. List 1). Anyone else have this problem?


You can't do a lot of things with the OTA stations that you can with satellite (ever try the PIP on an OTA?) 

I havn't tried to make favorites lists yet. I'm not surprised that you can't get the OTA's into a list.

As far as not getting a lock on TV-3, what are you using for an antenna? WKYC-DT is on RF ch 2, so you have to have an antenna capable of receiving low-band VHF (I.E. a LARGE antenna). WOIO-DT is on RF ch 10, so you can get away with some UHF antennas even though it's actually a high-band VHF channel.


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## pesla5439

My problem is not my antenna. I have a large Weingard (sp?) hi def antenna mounted over three stories high and unobstructed. I'm less than 8 miles from wkyc's transmission tower and never had a problem when I was receiving OTA's though directv. This is clearly a 921 issue that, hopefully, will be resolved soon.


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## E Swift

Any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Yes, 1

Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot? No

Station call letters and city where station is located? KGO (ABC) 
San Francisco
The digital broadcast channel? 07-1, 07-2
The PSIP remapped channel? NA
Is the station broadcasting PSIP data? NA
Do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel? NA
Can you record successfully from the channel? Yes, I can record a black :nono2: screen
Do you get 0 second recordings from the channel? No
Do timers set for the channel fire correctly? NA

I miss my HD MNF!!! It's not the same watching from my Dish locals!!!!!!!

Happy Holidays,

E


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