# 942 + OTA locals



## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

I posted this question elsewhere but would also like to post it here.

I have my antenna connected to the 942 to get my digital locals and I also subscribe to the satellite locals. On the program guide it lists all of the digital locals but for some stations it has no guide info, it just says something like "Digital programming" Most of the channels like this are sub-channels that I never watch anyways, but there is at least one main channel like this. All of the guide info shows up on the satellite locals however. Is there a way to force the guide to update the info on the digital locals?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Do a checkswitch to force a guide data update, but it will take at least 24 hours to get your guide fully populated with data, especially for the local channels.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

My 942 does this also. Could it possibly be due to the local station not broadcasting the digital guide yet? My local CBS station has ABC program listings on it's guide. The only station that is correct is the local NBC station. I am in the Cedar Rapids Iowa area. I will try a checkswitch and see if that helps. REB


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## kspeters (Aug 12, 2003)

I had VOOM and the guide data worked for all but a couple channels. Now with the 942 I only get 1 or 2 channels that have guide data. Question is how does the 942 and voom differ in the way that they get the data. Send it over the satellite or get it from the OTA stream? This really bothers me b/c it's difficult to record OTA programs. AND I am paying dish $5.00/month to provide me guide data via the locals package.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The 942 doesn't use PSIP guide data.


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## Tom in TX (Jan 22, 2004)

The first two days I had mine, it showed "digital programming" for my locals. Then it caught up, and now has them all fine, many days out.
Tom in TX


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

I have had my 942 for over a week now and it hasn't caught up. The locals guide for standard definition are all correct but only one of the channels on digital are ok. Is there a bug causing the guides not to work right? I have the DPP lnb and signal strength is fine. There isn't much use paying for the locals if the guide isn't working :nono: Where is the guide data received from?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

RBenson - do you put it into standby mode at night?


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Yes, I always have it in stand-by mode when I'm not using it. I may try calling dish network and checking with them too. Thanks REB


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## kspeters (Aug 12, 2003)

RBenson said:


> I have had my 942 for over a week now and it hasn't caught up. The locals guide for standard definition are all correct but only one of the channels on digital are ok. Is there a bug causing the guides not to work right? I have the DPP lnb and signal strength is fine. There isn't much use paying for the locals if the guide isn't working :nono: Where is the guide data received from?


Sounds like the same thing I have. Mines been hooked up for a week and I shut it off every night. I have 7 OTA channels in my guide and two have data. The others say "Digital Service".


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Well, that was a waste of time. 55 minutes on hold to dish network, finally gave up. I have noticed that my CBS station that has the ABC guide is 3 hours past my local time. Jurassic Park III is listed as starting at 11 PM instead of my local time of 8PM. Very weird.. Is there an e-mail address for advanced technical at Dish?


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## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

I have 2 of my main networks without local guide info. I had the 942 map my satellite locals to the actual channel numbers so I can see the digital and satelllite locals next to each other - so I can see what is going on.

However, this makes it a lot more difficult to record the digital locals since you have to do a manual timer and then end up with a program called "Digital Programming"

Is there someone I need to call at Dish to get this problem resolved, or will it eventually download the data?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You guys all subscribe to your locals package, right?


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## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> You guys all subscribe to your locals package, right?


Yes, I do.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Yes, me too. What I can't understand is that the Sat locals have the correct programming listed. If the digital channels are mirrored, why aren't they the same? Is there something in the setup that I am not doing correctly?


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## kspeters (Aug 12, 2003)

I subscribe to locals also and more or less have the same situation as RBenson.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Hi.. I just got off the phone to advanced technical and basically was told that program guide info for OTA channels is supplied by the channels themselves. Evidently Dish Net has nothing to do with OTA program guide info.

I am trying an experiment by swinging my antenna towards the Quad Cities area. I scanned in the digital signals from them and I'm now waiting for program info to download.

It may just be that the channels I'm having trouble with are not transmitting an info guide that the 942 can recognize? 


I'll let you know what happens......


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## kspeters (Aug 12, 2003)

Understood RBenson, but why did they work with VOOM and not with Dish?


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## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

Not only does the 942 not have the program guide info for 2 of my main digital locals, but it not getting as good of reception as my Voom STB.

I currently have a separate coax run from my antenna which I can easily swap between the Voom STB and the 942. When I compare my local PAX channels, RF # 8 channels 21-1 - 21-4 here is what each STB reports:
Voom: 93 to 94 signal strength
942: 74 signal strength

On the Voom STB, these channels come in perfectly, but with the 942 it breaks up. 

I don't ever watch the PAX channels, but with the 942 every single OTA channel is received with lower signal than the Voom STB. All of the locals that I watch are still in the 90 percent range, so it is unlikely to bother me, but why is the 942 OTA tuner weaker than the Voom STB which is much older?


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

I just thought of something. Swinging the antenna around to the Quad Cities probably won't work because they are not my locals on Dishnet. I guess I'll wait 24 hours to see if anything comes up on my guide from the QC channels.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Rbenson - the engineer told you wrong. The 942 does NOT get guide data for local channels. I'm going to start another thread to ask you to tell me exactly what stations you're having problems with.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Alto101 said:


> Not only does the 942 not have the program guide info for 2 of my main digital locals, but it not getting as good of reception as my Voom STB.
> 
> I currently have a separate coax run from my antenna which I can easily swap between the Voom STB and the 942. When I compare my local PAX channels, RF # 8 channels 21-1 - 21-4 here is what each STB reports:
> Voom: 93 to 94 signal strength
> ...


I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples. I doubt that the signal strengths mean the same thing from one unit to another.


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## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

RBenson said:


> I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples. I doubt that the signal strengths mean the same thing from one unit to another.


Very true - however, even if they use a different scale to measure signal strength for the digital locals - the fact is that the Voom STB will display one channel perfectly while the 942 can't. This is clearly an indication that the 942 OTA tuner is not working as well as the Voom OTA tuner. What I would like to know is if it is a setup issue, or if the hardware isn't as good.


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

This is what I am also talking about. The Sony plays them with no problem, the 942 will start pixing on those same channels. It is obvious the internal digital tuner isnt of the highest quality.


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

Alto101 said:


> Not only does the 942 not have the program guide info for 2 of my main digital locals, but it not getting as good of reception as my Voom STB.
> 
> I currently have a separate coax run from my antenna which I can easily swap between the Voom STB and the 942. When I compare my local PAX channels, RF # 8 channels 21-1 - 21-4 here is what each STB reports:
> Voom: 93 to 94 signal strength
> ...


ALTO 101

i am having a similar problem. My 942 refuses to detect digital channels ABC and CBS. I have three other 921 connected to the OTA using splitters and 50-75ft RG6 cables and are able to pickup these channels without any problems. When I connect a 921 at the 942 location it detects the signal without any problems. Eliminating all splitters, factory default reset, hard reset and talking to Tech support has not helped. Tech support had no explaination. 
Anybody else having similar problems.


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

I to am having a similar issue. My 942 will not pick up UPN at all. On all other stations I get a good connection from anywhere around 80 - 95 signal meter. Reception looks great but It will just disconnect on me and on some channels i get a lot of pixel break up. I'm new to pretty much everything. I got my 942 about a month ago, just got my antenna this weekend, and have never used OTA before. I'm about 35 miles away from the towers so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But from what i'm reading i'm not the only one with a 942 having this issue.


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

Ok now here is something weird. Come home today, its raining, clouds in sky. Hmm...think reception would be bad, so I check my locals and they are pretty good and clear. Think to myself what the heck, let me check again and see if I could get UPN. And guess what. I get a connection at 98-99 signal strength!! Now I didn't touch my antenna and did nothing but today I get connected. seems kinda fishy to me. I had the same problem with ABC. At first it would connect to channel 67 for some reason. this makes me think its the receiver.


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## csschrot (May 2, 2003)

Mark, Are they going to allow the 942 to use the PSIP info from the stations. I think it is absolutely wrong that you have to subscribe to the locals to get guide info. We have a station the does 3 sub-channels so it would be a nice feature.

Shawn


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Not in the near term that I know of, Shawn.


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## M492A (Nov 18, 2004)

srbigbutt said:


> ...let me check again and see if I could get UPN. And guess what. I get a connection at 98-99 signal strength!! Now I didn't touch my antenna and did nothing but today I get connected.


I have seen occasions where one of my local stations sometimes won't come in at all for a day or two, and come to find out they were doing maintenance of some sort at the station or transmitter site.

I don't recall where I read it, but I have the impression to the effect that some (if not all) stations are not yet required or committed to provide digital service as long as they're broadcasting their analog signal.


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

M492A said:


> I have seen occasions where one of my local stations sometimes won't come in at all for a day or two, and come to find out they were doing maintenance of some sort at the station or transmitter site.
> 
> I don't recall where I read it, but I have the impression to the effect that some (if not all) stations are not yet required or committed to provide digital service as long as they're broadcasting their analog signal.


Thats a possiblity. But nobody else in Houston complained about it. Have no idea. Doesn't explain why my receiver thought ABC was channel 67 for 2 days.


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

srbigbutt said:


> Ok now here is something weird. Come home today, its raining, clouds in sky. Hmm...think reception would be bad, so I check my locals and they are pretty good and clear. Think to myself what the heck, let me check again and see if I could get UPN. And guess what. I get a connection at 98-99 signal strength!! Now I didn't touch my antenna and did nothing but today I get connected. seems kinda fishy to me. I had the same problem with ABC. At first it would connect to channel 67 for some reason. this makes me think its the receiver.


Atmospheric conditions can really affect OTA reception - sometimes good and sometimes bad - especially if you don't have a direct line of sight to the transmitters. My locals are about 50 miles from me and usually come in really well, but occasionally will get weak. On the other hand, I can sometimes (especially at night) pick up stations that are about 110 miles away. The lower channels (therefore lower frequencies) are more suceptable to this effect than the higher frequencies. This "atmospheric bounce" can also cause multipath (same signal arriving at the antenna at slightly different times) and cause problems for some receivers.

There may be anomolies that are being discovered about the OTA section of the 942 that can be addressed via software updates. However atmospheric conditions are a fact of life and there isn't much that can be done about it. Oddly enough - for those with rotators and directional antennas - you can aim the antenna away from the transmitter (a little bit) at times and get better reception.

I'm getting a 942 installed tomorrow and it will be interesting to see how the OTA performs relative to my old Voom receiver (pretty good on OTA) and Samsung ATSC receiver which was also pretty good.

Doug


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

Well i'm reall beginning to think its something with the receiver. Tonight I got home and checked my locals and all the channels I was having problems with are really strong with a signal of over 90-95. But now I can't get a signal from CBS.


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

srbigbutt said:


> Well i'm reall beginning to think its something with the receiver. Tonight I got home and checked my locals and all the channels I was having problems with are really strong with a signal of over 90-95. But now I can't get a signal from CBS.


Srbigbutt
It has nothing to do with the reception . The problem is with the OTA tuner of 942. I have 3 921 all picking up the digital channels. THE signal is strong 105/125 for the 921. The 942 refuses to recognize ABC inspite of everything I have tried. Unless we both have a bad 942 receiver I am convinced that the 942 OTA tuner is not as good as the 921. Whether this is a hardware issue or can be fixed with a software upgrade remains to be seen. It took them 1yr to iron out the problems with the 921. So I am holding my breath to see what happens next.


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

vivek1263 said:


> Srbigbutt
> It has nothing to do with the reception . The problem is with the OTA tuner of 942. I have 3 921 all picking up the digital channels. THE signal is strong 105/125 for the 921. The 942 refuses to recognize ABC inspite of everything I have tried. Unless we both have a bad 942 receiver I am convinced that the 942 OTA tuner is not as good as the 921. Whether this is a hardware issue or can be fixed with a software upgrade remains to be seen. It took them 1yr to iron out the problems with the 921. So I am holding my breath to see what happens next.


I hope its just a software problem and can be fixed.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

My bet is it's a software problem that just didn't show up in testing.


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> My bet is it's a software problem that just didn't show up in testing.


Mark

Thanks for your help. I did call advanced tech support and they have passed on the problem to another division. I was told to expect a call from them tommorow to decided whether they would replace the receiver or try to troubleshoot it. I will keep everybody posted.

Vivek


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## srbigbutt (Apr 25, 2005)

vivek1263 said:


> Mark
> 
> Thanks for your help. I did call advanced tech support and they have passed on the problem to another division. I was told to expect a call from them tommorow to decided whether they would replace the receiver or try to troubleshoot it. I will keep everybody posted.
> 
> Vivek


I haven't called Tech support yet because I thought it was probably my antenna. Keep us posted and let us know what I need to do.


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

Mark 

I got a call from tech support. They think that this is a software issue and they will start working on it. They have noted similar problems in the Denver area as well and are confident that a software solution is all that will be needed.

Thanks for your help


Vivek


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

Does anyone know why PBS-HD in the Twin Cities area doesn't have a guide data? The 942 is showing guide information for all OTA digitals, except that one. It's annoying since we watch that channel a fair amount.


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## BigFella (Jul 13, 2004)

I don't have a 942 yet but I plan to get one. My question is about OTA EPG data. I live in the LA area. Up until last month, I subscribed to the Distant Nets package that included Denver, New York and my LA locals (for $11.99 a month package price). As many of us did, I had to choose between receiving Local or Distant nets last month - I chose Distants. My bill now says Top 180 plus locals and Distant nets. For billing purposes, they are apparently calling Denver local (even though I live in the LA area) and New York my distant network. I have to pay more for the two network packages now but that's another story. Enough background, now the question - Will I receive guide data on my LA OTA digital stations even though Denver is my new "Local" package?

TIA


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I have absolutely no idea, BigFella. You fall into a very non-standard case here. 

But, welcome to DBSTalk, anyways! :hi:


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

jpetersohn said:


> Does anyone know why PBS-HD in the Twin Cities area doesn't have a guide data? The 942 is showing guide information for all OTA digitals, except that one. It's annoying since we watch that channel a fair amount.


I think its because Twin Cities PBS-HD probably are not providing any data in the stream and even if they did, I am not sure whether the Dish Tuner would incorporate it into the guide.

And since other OTA guide data I beleive comes from being sync'ed with Dish Local guide data, there is no local PBS HD channel in the guide to allow that data to sync up, so there is none. There isn't any on my 811 either, ever.. Twin Cities PBS is normally channel 17, and their Digital equivalent multi-casts 4-5 channels, and I don't recall ever seeing guide data for most of those either.


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

Mark L,
Could you ask Dish tech engineering what the rated receiver sensitivity is on the various receivers (811,921,942 etc) What signal strength (I believe this is expressed in microvolts) is required for a full scale reading in the signal strength readouts? This would help to answer the above questions. And allow it to be compared to other brands of receiver (Voom etc)The OTA receiver on my 811 does seem to be less sensitive that the one on my Sony 34XBR960 in that I get fewer dropouts with the Sony on OTA programs. I think I read that the designers of the OTA receiver chips are about to release a newer version (Ver #5 I think) that will cure many of the dropout issues. Maybe these will appear in newer receivers.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

audiomaster - I can ask, but I can almost guarantee that's the kind of information that they won't give to me to give out.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Alto101 said:


> Very true - however, even if they use a different scale to measure signal strength for the digital locals - the fact is that the Voom STB will display one channel perfectly while the 942 can't. This is clearly an indication that the 942 OTA tuner is not working as well as the Voom OTA tuner. What I would like to know is if it is a setup issue, or if the hardware isn't as good.


I'm having the same issue between a 921 and 942. Last night I had 6 - 10 noticable, but very brief, break-ups on a channel that I almost never had problems with on my 921. I asked someone else that is using the D* HD Tivo with an antenna a few miles from me and he didn't have any issues. I'm guessing that the Hardware? but hopefully the Software? on the 942 doesn't do as good of a job with OTA HD Channels.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

robglasser said:


> I'm having the same issue between a 921 and 942. Last night I had 6 - 10 noticable, but very brief, break-ups on a channel that I almost never had problems with on my 921. I asked someone else that is using the D* HD Tivo with an antenna a few miles from me and he didn't have any issues. I'm guessing that the Hardware? but hopefully the Software? on the 942 doesn't do as good of a job with OTA HD Channels.


When you are dealing with OTA signals, you could have differences from one side of the street to another. To assume that someone else with different hardware miles away that did not see your anomoly was caused by the hardware when your dealing with an OTA signal, is just to hard of a leap to make, there could have been any number of reasons why you saw some pixelization or breakup. While of course its always possible there is a tuner issue, there are far more external reasons..


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

normang said:


> When you are dealing with OTA signals, you could have differences from one side of the street to another. To assume that someone else with different hardware miles away that did not see your anomoly was caused by the hardware when your dealing with an OTA signal, is just to hard of a leap to make, there could have been any number of reasons why you saw some pixelization or breakup. While of course its always possible there is a tuner issue, there are far more external reasons..


True, however I know this is a station that I had rock solid with my 921. While, it was raining last night there was not any wind, which in the past has been the only thing to impact my ability to receive any station (however this was one never affected by wind). In fact I've found when it rains in my area my signal strength, on the 921, goes up slightly. What I was trying to validate by asking someone else was to make sure the station itself was not expierencing issues. By verifying this it means it was my reception.

Because I have not had problems with reception of this station with my 921 through many wind and rain storms as well as plenty of nice weather, and because I have not moved or changed my antenna, it leaves me to believe the issues is in the OTA Tuner on the 942. This is a safe assumption if you ask me.

Granted this is only one instance, and maybe it was just a fluke, time will tell. I'm actually looking forward to watching 24 tonight to see if it has any issues.


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## shanewalker (May 4, 2005)

I'm in Chicago and am experiencing the same issues as outlined above. My 2 811 recievers get solid reception of all 15 digital locals, but even after two tech visits and double checking all wiring connections, my 942 only gets good picture/lock on the three big networks and channel 11 PBS. I'm hoping it is indeed a software glitch and that the fine folks at E* are able to resolve it soon.


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## foosnake (May 8, 2005)

I posted my info in the other thread about OTA program guide issues. Is there any information regarding the cause of the problem? Seems to be a guessing game, so far. It sure is a pain to have to set manual timers for all the HD shows.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

robglasser said:


> True, however I know this is a station that I had rock solid with my 921. While, it was raining last night there was not any wind, which in the past has been the only thing to impact my ability to receive any station (however this was one never affected by wind). In fact I've found when it rains in my area my signal strength, on the 921, goes up slightly. What I was trying to validate by asking someone else was to make sure the station itself was not expierencing issues. By verifying this it means it was my reception.
> 
> Because I have not had problems with reception of this station with my 921 through many wind and rain storms as well as plenty of nice weather, and because I have not moved or changed my antenna, it leaves me to believe the issues is in the OTA Tuner on the 942. This is a safe assumption if you ask me.
> 
> Granted this is only one instance, and maybe it was just a fluke, time will tell. I'm actually looking forward to watching 24 tonight to see if it has any issues.


I've posted on this on other threads, but figured I'd better put something here as well. I'll keep it short. 24 was almost unwatchable due to drop outs. I think I'm expierencing the OTA Tuner issues a lot of others are seeing. I am going to try some more fine tuning with my antenna to try and reduce multipathing.

Thanks


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## shanewalker (May 4, 2005)

Follow-up on my OTA issues...a $9.99 variable attenuator from Radio Shack seems to have done the trick. Seems things were overmodulated, when set to medium strength, bingo, I get good artifact-free lock on all the channels. I'm watching 32.1 Fox ("House") right now, and though the signal has cut out for a split second and there were some hints of audio drop-out, that might just mean I need to do some minor tweaking (or when the mandate kicks in the broadcast power might jump and I'll have to reset this whole thing anyway).

So, I guess the 942 has a tuner much more sensitive to overpowered/overmodulated signals coming down the wire. I'm going to call E* tomorrow and let them know, as many folks might benefit from the same relatively simple fix (until they can [hopefully] provide a permanent remedy via software update, etc.). Might be that certain markets/locations are more prone to 8VSB overmodulation and that's why it seems to be affecting only pockets of 942 owners...but again, I'm no expert on these matters, so my language or logic could be way off.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Just to update my situation. I too went and bought an antenuator last night, hooked it up and was able to get my local FOX affliate locked in without drop outs. It caused my "signal" on that station to drop about 10% but it was more stable. The downside, is it dropped 2 other stations as well, and they started expierencing regular dropouts. I'm going to have to play with this and antenna location some more to try and lock everything in. I can definetly see now that the 942 is way more suseptible to multi-path and I really really hope this is something that can be fixed via a software update and SOON.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

New Update: Went back to rat shack last night, got a non-adjustable 6dB inline antenuator and hooked it up. It seems to be working better than the more expensive adjustable antenuator. It stablized my signal strength for my local fox affiliate without the 10% drop in signal strength on it, or any other stations. Now to wait for some wind and rain to make sure it does not negatively impact other stations during those weather scenarios.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Last night, I installed one of the variable attenuators on one of my 942s, and now all of a sudden, I'm also able to tune to my fox station, when I've never been able to before. I've been reporting to Dish for a very long time that the 942 was more sensitive to multipath than the 921 or 6000 were.


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## Alto101 (Apr 11, 2005)

Are these the annenuators that you are talking about?

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=15-1257

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=15-678


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

Silly thought?!? I wonder if the attenuator they include in the 942 accessory bag for reducing the sensitivity of the UHF remote would also work for this purpose?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Alto101 said:


> Are these the annenuators that you are talking about?
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=15-1257
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&product_id=15-678


Yes, I used both and had better results with the first one, the inline 6dB one.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Last night, I installed one of the variable attenuators on one of my 942s, and now all of a sudden, I'm also able to tune to my fox station, when I've never been able to before. I've been reporting to Dish for a very long time that the 942 was more sensitive to multipath than the 921 or 6000 were.


Mark, does this mean that its not multipath and the tuner is too sensitive, or does it mean that multipath is a bigger problem than you thought?


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## shanewalker (May 4, 2005)

Interesting that you had better luck with the 6db attenuator, Rob. I might have to run by RS and give that a try. I've found that depending on weather conditions, I've had to tweak the variable knob with each viewing. If the 6db works as well/better and saves 'babysitting' AND its cheaper, bonus.

So, Mark, what has Dish told you by way of response to the tuner/multipath 942 issues?


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

This is a similar problem if not the same that experinced with the 921, it looks like they never fixed it.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

My 921 worked much better than my 942 does on ota issues. I had a solid lock on all three of my ota stations. My local channel 6 CBS is the only station that is hd and is operating in full power . This is the station that I have the worst problem with. My Abc and Nbc station are very weak but I get a solid lock on these two. The Nbc and the Cbs station is in the same direction and the Abc is in the opposite direction. Some days on my 942 at night I lose signal strength on all of them but my hd tv with tuner doesn't. Right now it is kind of hit and miss.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I replaced the variable attenutator with the 6dB inline one last night as well, and also had better results with it.

I think this is a sensitivity to multipath problem, and Dish hasn't said anything to me about it (yet).


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

Bichon said:


> Silly thought?!? I wonder if the attenuator they include in the 942 accessory bag for reducing the sensitivity of the UHF remote would also work for this purpose?


I guess none of you was curious enough to give this a try?

I tried it, and am happy to report that it works exceptionally well. WHYY was breaking up like crazy; now it's solid as a rock. Flipped around the dial, and haven't seen a glitch since I installed it.

So, no need to blow that $3.99 on the Radio Shack attenuator. You already have one in the accessory bag that came with the 942.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I replaced the variable attenutator with the 6dB inline one last night as well, and also had better results with it.
> 
> I think this is a sensitivity to multipath problem, and Dish hasn't said anything to me about it (yet).


 I just did the same thing today and my 942 is getting all three of my digital stations with no more break ups. I am so happy now.  I am now satisfied with my ota strengths on all my digital stations. Now if we could just get that little dolby digital pip swap problem fixed.:sure:


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Patience, grasshopper... :lol:

I know...I know...


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Mark, you are well aware of my problems. I get strong signals 77-101, and get good reception. Since dish is not going to help me should i try the attenuator. The one came with the unit was for the guide use? I'll try anything, even if it does not work! What is your recommendation? thanks dewey


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I don't see how the attenuator could possibly help your situation, Dewey. But, sure...what the heck?


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

For those people using an amplifier and attenuater, I am going to guess that your amps do not have a power level adjustment?


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

the_bear said:


> For those people using an amplifier and attenuater, I am going to guess that your amps do not have a power level adjustment?


ChannelMaster 7777 here. I bought it because it has exceptionally low noise (2 db) and high gain (26 db), much better specs than the R/S gear. No built-in attenuator though. Worked wonders with my Dish 6000 and the "MyHD" card in my home theater PC. Now with the attenuator from the accessory bag, it's working great on the 942 too.


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## sbturner (Jul 24, 2002)

I have just installed the 942 and subscribe to locals and I don't have an real antenna but am using rabbit ears for the time being and can get only one digital channel which is what I expected. It is a low power station that dish does not carry but still I got it because the tower is very close and it went into the guide although I am not getting guide data. The station looks like crap although I am getting 87-90 signal strength I guess it's the station.


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## shanewalker (May 4, 2005)

I tried the inline 6db attenuator today. Fox 32 and a couple of other channels resumed pixel/breakup, so went back to the variable (and all looked fine once again). Oh well, had to try...glad its working for some folks. Only a few bucks difference, right? Guess the environmental/transmission features in my area near Lake Michigan and fairly close to downtown Chicago are just particular enough where a straight 6db just doesn't work. Wonder how these attenuator workarounds correlate with various geographic locales?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

OTA has always been a mixed bag, whether it was analog or now digital. Reception varies widely based on a slew of factors. receiver sensativity and design, surrounding area, are you on a hill, low area, single story house, two story house, Whether the stations are transmitting properly and at reasonable power levels, type of antenna, rotor, no rotor, to little signal, too much.. Types of cable, amps or antenuators... All you can do is try to optimize for your particular location


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ok, I know everyone is talking about 942's, however, I must add something to this. My 811 doesn't show guide data for all of my OTA locals either! Two of them being one of the big four. (CBS, NBC) I am in the OKC DMA, however I am able to get guide data for UPN 41 and FOX 23 from Tulsa, of course I get guide data for the OKC Fox and WB channels. But I don't get guide data for the NBC, CBS, and PBS (PBS for either Tulsa or OKC) channels (of course I don't get guide data for the two PAX channels or the independent channel, but I understand why that is). My 811 mapped them to the correct channel number (DISH LIL 009-00, OTA DTV 009-01 for example) however no guide data. 

So this isn't something that effects just the 942, and since it isn't just the 942 most likely it is a problem with the broadcast, not the equipment (you could make an argument against how Dish does their guide data for the OTA DTV stations, but that isn't really the issue here!).


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Dish advanced tech help assured me that the ota tuner in the 942 is identical to the 921. Does anyone know if this is true or not?


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## cruzer (May 16, 2005)

shanewalker said:


> I tried the inline 6db attenuator today. Fox 32 and a couple of other channels resumed pixel/breakup, so went back to the variable (and all looked fine once again). Oh well, had to try...glad its working for some folks. Only a few bucks difference, right? Guess the environmental/transmission features in my area near Lake Michigan and fairly close to downtown Chicago are just particular enough where a straight 6db just doesn't work. Wonder how these attenuator workarounds correlate with various geographic locales?


 I'm an ex-Voomer and now have the 942. I'm in South Florida and I can get all the OTA channels I want, except for the NBC channel in West Palm Beach. I used to get this channel without a problem when I had the Voom STB. This station is only 10 miles away and I'm getting other channels that are further away and in the same direction.

I tried the attenuator that came with the 942 and the two attenuators from Radio Shack (fixed and variable), with no luck. The signal fluctuates between 25 and 50 and never locks on.

I haven't contacted Dish support yet, but would they tell me anything more than what I have learned/tried through this thread? Any more suggestions anyone out there may have would be greatly appreciated.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

cruzer said:


> This station is only 10 miles away and I'm getting other channels that are further away and in the same direction.
> 
> I tried the attenuator that came with the 942 and the two attenuators from Radio Shack (fixed and variable), with no luck. The signal fluctuates between 25 and 50 and never locks on.


That's not very far away, and it's a pretty low signal strength. What kind of antenna are you using? Sound like something is blocking your reception and maybe moving the antenna location around might fix things? Hard to say with the information I have right now. I am between 18 - 30 miles from the towers I receive broadcasts on , depending on the stations. and the lowest any of my stations come in is the high 70's, most are in the 90's to 100. If your using an indoor antenna, maybe get an out door antenna?


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## cruzer (May 16, 2005)

robglasser said:


> That's not very far away, and it's a pretty low signal strength. What kind of antenna are you using? Sound like something is blocking your reception and maybe moving the antenna location around might fix things? Hard to say with the information I have right now. I am between 18 - 30 miles from the towers I receive broadcasts on , depending on the stations. and the lowest any of my stations come in is the high 70's, most are in the 90's to 100. If your using an indoor antenna, maybe get an out door antenna?


 Rob, thanks for your reply. Off hand, I don't know the brand of my antenna. I bought it from an online company. This is an outdoor antenna located at the peak of my roof and there is no obstruction. Again, this same attenna worked great with my Voom STB, so I'm suspecting it's either the 942 hardware or software. All of the other OTA channels I'm getting have signal strengths in the 80-95 range. This one channel is the only odd-ball; channel 5 (frequency 55).


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I have read some of the appends here and in other forums that the 942 and the 921 OTA reception is not very good. Also both have problems receiving and displaying the OTA guide. Try adding a signal buster to your antenna. That is what I had to do, I get reception but no OTA Guide. Unfortunatelly not everyone seams to have the problem, so we are not getting a resolution.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

cruzer said:


> Rob, thanks for your reply. Off hand, I don't know the brand of my antenna. I bought it from an online company. This is an outdoor antenna located at the peak of my roof and there is no obstruction. Again, this same attenna worked great with my Voom STB, so I'm suspecting it's either the 942 hardware or software. All of the other OTA channels I'm getting have signal strengths in the 80-95 range. This one channel is the only odd-ball; channel 5 (frequency 55).


That is really strange. If it was me I guess the next step would be to go up on the roof and start changing the direction of the antenna slightly to see if you can boost that channel and not adversely affect others. Also, maybe vary height. When I was first hooking up my antenna I found raising it a few feet made all the difference in the world, even though there was nothing visibily blocking reception that I could see. Also, angling the antenna slight off the direction of the towers helped as well. Don't ask me to explain it, but it helped me.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

cruzer - the first thing you should do is check out the Local HDTV forum over at AVSForums, find the thread for your location and see if there's anyone else in your area having problems with that channel.


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## cruzer (May 16, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> cruzer - the first thing you should do is check out the Local HDTV forum over at AVSForums, find the thread for your location and see if there's anyone else in your area having problems with that channel.


Thanks, Mark. I just found out that WPTV has been transmitting their HD at 1/2 power since mid-April. I switched to the Dish box on 4/28. They hope to be up to full power by 5/27. I hope this is the reason I don't get a strong signal


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

I am surprised no one has posted about being able to lock channels with the 942 that they could not lock with the 811/921. Has anyone fond a case where the 942 OTA reception is superior to the older receivers?

From: http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=518003
"We have subjected Broadcom's BCM3520 to an extensive list of test conditions and the performance under a variety of severe multi-path channel conditions is remarkable," said Yiyan Wu, Principal Research Scientist at Communications Research Centre (CRC), Canada.

I realize this is a press release and therefore have a positive spin, but the posts to this thread contradict Yiyan Wu's findings from last year.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

the_bear said:


> I am surprised no one has posted about being able to lock channels with the 942 that they could not lock with the 811/921. Has anyone fond a case where the 942 OTA reception is superior to the older receivers?


Not me. My rock solid stations are still rock solid (mid 90ss to 100% stations), my border line stations are more prone to drop out now(mid 70s - 80s), and my one station that I was having multipath issues (bounced between 70s - 90s)with is more prone to dropouts. For me the OTA on the 942 is worse. The 6dB inline attenuator from Radio Shack fixed the multipath issue, but not the dropout issue on borderline stations. Luckily my borderline stations are UPN (only thing I watch was Enterprise and the occasional Mariners game) and PBS (only watch occasional content), and they only typically have issues during bad weather.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

Have to agree with Rob. Before I learned the trick of using the attenuator, I'd have rated the OTA in the 942 inferior to both the model 6000 and the MyHD card in my home theater PC. With the attenuator it has improved to the point where it's about equivalent to that older equipment (and acceptable), but hardly remarkable.


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## Radicalman (Apr 21, 2005)

Well, the OTA engineering on the 942 just flat sucks. I hooked up my old Voom box, connected the OTA to it and ALL of my locals come in great with no problems at all. My 942 wont lock on anything. Yeah, I tried the attinuators and even tried a new antenna, and nothing. So, I had to buy a Component Video/Digital Optical Audio Switch so I'll be able to watch network shows/football in HD via my Voom Box OTA. Dish needs HD Locals off of the satellite!


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

There does seem to be a difference between the OTA tuners in the 942 and the 921. I wouldn't say that one is really much better than the other though, they are just different.

I live in Margate FL. I am between Miami and West Palm Beach. I have a north pointing antenna and a south pointing antenna that I switch through a remote control co-ax switcher. I have both a 921 and a 942 connected to the antenna. The 921 gets some stations better than the 942 and vice versa. WPTV in WPB has had continual problems since their inception. Right now, they are apparently doing many things to try to correct the problems. Usually, I can receive a good signal on the 942 (on the north pointing ant), but for some reason, today I cannot. Hopefully, at the end of the month they may have their problems corrected (but I wouldn't hold my breath - they have been trying for about 2.5 years)

Today, I noticed that while I have the north pointing antenna selected, I can receive about 90% of all stations from both Miami and WPB with the 942. However, with the 921, I can receive only about 50% of the stations. With the 921, it is much more important that I have the right antenna selected than on the 942.

What does this say?? I guess they are just different. However, from reading many entries on various local websites, I would say that DISH has at least as good a tuner as most of the other STBs. I also have a Mitsubishi DLP TV with a built in tuner, and compared to the DISH tuners, the Mitsu tuner really sucks even though the Mitsu is a great TV.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Radicalman said:


> Well, the OTA engineering on the 942 just flat sucks. I hooked up my old Voom box, connected the OTA to it and ALL of my locals come in great with no problems at all. My 942 wont lock on anything. Yeah, I tried the attinuators and even tried a new antenna, and nothing. So, I had to buy a Component Video/Digital Optical Audio Switch so I'll be able to watch network shows/football in HD via my Voom Box OTA. Dish needs HD Locals off of the satellite!


Assuming your being honest and not just throwing rocks at E*, it would seem to me if you can hookup another tuner and get good reception and you cannot from a 942 "at all", then you might want to have it swapped out and see if somehow you have a defective unit. It just seems a little hard to believe that there would be such a night and day difference from one tuner to another..


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I agree with Norm...


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

shanewalker said:


> I'm in Chicago and am experiencing the same issues as outlined above. My 2 811 recievers get solid reception of all 15 digital locals, but even after two tech visits and double checking all wiring connections, my 942 only gets good picture/lock on the three big networks and channel 11 PBS. I'm hoping it is indeed a software glitch and that the fine folks at E* are able to resolve it soon.


I think that we all are having the same problems. There is absolutely no question that the 942 OTA IS NOT WORKING PROPERLY/OR IS NOT AS SENSITIVE as compared to the other STB or for that matter the 921/811. i have been in touch with the Tech support board at Dish Network with Mark's help and the technicians there feels that this appears to be a software issue that may be fixed in future upgrades. He does not think that the OTA Tuner is in anyway inferior to the other receivers. Whether this is the case and if so when/whether it will be fixed remains to be seen. It is safe to say as of now that someone who uses OTA to watch their tv might want to wait before plunking their money for a 942. As for me I can wait until the football season to see if Dish will fix the issue. If by then it still is a problem I will be getting rid of my 942 because that tells me that they are either not serious about fixing the issue or the OTA tuner itself is inferior to the 921/811.

Vivek


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## vivek1263 (Jul 2, 2004)

robglasser said:


> I'm having the same issue between a 921 and 942. Last night I had 6 - 10 noticable, but very brief, break-ups on a channel that I almost never had problems with on my 921. I asked someone else that is using the D* HD Tivo with an antenna a few miles from me and he didn't have any issues. I'm guessing that the Hardware? but hopefully the Software? on the 942 doesn't do as good of a job with OTA HD Channels.


You are right. As of now the OTA TUNER of the 942 is a problem. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope this is software related, as DishNetwork Techs seem to be claiming.

Vivek


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## cruzer (May 16, 2005)

Avillant said:


> There does seem to be a difference between the OTA tuners in the 942 and the 921. I wouldn't say that one is really much better than the other though, they are just different.
> 
> I live in Margate FL. I am between Miami and West Palm Beach. I have a north pointing antenna and a south pointing antenna that I switch through a remote control co-ax switcher. I have both a 921 and a 942 connected to the antenna. The 921 gets some stations better than the 942 and vice versa. WPTV in WPB has had continual problems since their inception. Right now, they are apparently doing many things to try to correct the problems. Usually, I can receive a good signal on the 942 (on the north pointing ant), but for some reason, today I cannot. Hopefully, at the end of the month they may have their problems corrected (but I wouldn't hold my breath - they have been trying for about 2.5 years)
> 
> ...


Aviilant, may I ask what brand and model antenna you are using?

Thanks.


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## Beer Kahuna (Mar 25, 2005)

I didn't own the 921 or 811 so I can't comment on them. Before the 942, I was using a Samsung SIR-T151 OTA tuner box. I can say with complete confidence that the 942 kicks the ever-living crap out of the Samsung!


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

cruzer said:


> Aviilant, may I ask what brand and model antenna you are using?
> 
> Thanks.


My north bound antenna is a Radio Shack broadband (the one with the 80" boom). My south bound antenna is a Channel Master Stealthtenna.


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## pjeffe (Jun 25, 2005)

I'm having problems pulling in two of my six digital OTA locals, ones that other tuners, including my old 6000, could pull in fine. I haven't tried the DC blocker yet, but I have tried various attenuators to no avail. The thing I haven't seen already mentioned in these threads (sorry if I missed it) is that the signal strength on the bad channels is always reported as 0. It seems that either there's 80+ registered on the good channels (with most of them at 100, even with 12db or more attenuation) and the channel gets locked, or else there's 0, with nothing in between.

This of course makes no sense if the strength being reported is actually the RF signal strength from the antenna, so I'm guessing that's either not the case or the software isn't reporting it correctly (and my money's on the latter). Has anyone else seen this?


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

pjeffe said:


> I'm having problems pulling in two of my six digital OTA locals, ones that other tuners, including my old 6000, could pull in fine. I haven't tried the DC blocker yet, but I have tried various attenuators to no avail. The thing I haven't seen already mentioned in these threads (sorry if I missed it) is that the signal strength on the bad channels is always reported as 0. It seems that either there's 80+ registered on the good channels (with most of them at 100, even with 12db or more attenuation) and the channel gets locked, or else there's 0, with nothing in between.
> 
> This of course makes no sense if the strength being reported is actually the RF signal strength from the antenna, so I'm guessing that's either not the case or the software isn't reporting it correctly (and my money's on the latter). Has anyone else seen this?


I agree. With my 942, it's "0" or Lock.

Granted, I'm up here in Vermont (where we know OTA ain't pretty) but with my 811 I could get 2 PBS stations real good (90s) and about 5 other stations that would kick the meter around between 49 & 56% with occasional spikes to 65%. Every once in a while the 811 would even get a lock on a few of them. Basically there was enough signal activity on those other stations that I was considering moving my antenna around to try and improve the signal.

With the 942 I get nothing but those 2 PBS channels and the signal is about 10 to 15 points less. None of those other 5 stations produce even a "flicker" of signal activity, no matter where I rotate my antenna.

There's absolutely no doubt that the 942 is not as good as the 811 in terms of OTA. Other than that, it's a great receiver - best I've ever had but for OTA, it's just not cutting it. It's probably fine for people that live in flat, metro areas with a lot of stations available but for rural, hill country, forget it if OTA is your priority.


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

My 942 works great for OTA channels. I get all of my stations just as good as I did with my 811.


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