# Loud hard drive?



## daveshouse (Feb 6, 2008)

I've noticed since the last update that the hard drive in my HR21-700 seems very loud. It sounds like an old PC hard drive churning away when trying to perform a task. I don't know how else to explain this in any better terms, so this is the best I can do. I have only noticed this in the past few weeks, and have not made any changes to my setup or system, other than to get the new software. Anyone else experiencing this or know what I'm talking about? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## qprhooligan (Dec 5, 2007)

many people are having the same thing with their DVR's. it seems to be a new feature of the current software.


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## gunnarliden (Mar 22, 2007)

i have noticed this too. I thought i was just hearing things, but maybe not. it isn't that annoying, but is something wrong?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

We need to ask DTV to provide access to Top10 program for using by us, customers.


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## djr5899 (Sep 24, 2007)

I have noticed the same thing on my HR20-700. The hard drive sounds like it is doing a defrag multiple times a day. This only started happening after the latest software update. The amount of noise is very annoying, but I am actually seeing it affect what I am watching.

If the DVR is really cranking away at the hard drive, I have seen the audio drop out as well as the video get extremely choppy at the same time. As soon as the HD stops churning, all goes back to normal.

I have been debating about calling D* and asking for a new DVR.


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## dvisthe (May 27, 2007)

djr5899 said:


> I have noticed the same thing on my HR20-700. The hard drive sounds like it is doing a defrag multiple times a day. This only started happening after the latest software update. The amount of noise is very annoying, but I am actually seeing it affect what I am watching.
> 
> If the DVR is really cranking away at the hard drive, I have seen the audio drop out as well as the video get extremely choppy at the same time. As soon as the HD stops churning, all goes back to normal.
> 
> I have been debating about calling D* and asking for a new DVR.


Same here, I thought my DVR is about to bite the dust:nono2:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> We need to ask DTV to provide access to Top10 program for using by us, customers.


What?


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I've noticed this on my HR20-700 as well. I thought my HDD was munching hard candy.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

djr5899 said:


> I have noticed the same thing on my HR20-700. The hard drive sounds like it is doing a defrag multiple times a day. This only started happening after the latest software update. The amount of noise is very annoying, but I am actually seeing it affect what I am watching.
> 
> If the DVR is really cranking away at the hard drive, I have seen the audio drop out as well as the video get extremely choppy at the same time. As soon as the HD stops churning, all goes back to normal.
> 
> I have been debating about calling D* and asking for a new DVR.


I've seen exactly the same behavior on my HR20-700, including the video stutter. Really annoying. And the noise of the head thrashing makes my living room sound a bit like a data center. I'm contacting DTV now via email, I'll post the response.


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## realfan (Oct 4, 2006)

Add me to this list. Very loud and it has actually woken me up at night (yes - I am a light sleeper).

I, too, thought that this may be a hard drive on its last legs, so to speak.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

RobertE said:


> What?


I mean top 10 tasks by using this.
[hope you know the DVRs running Linux].


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

P Smith said:


> I mean top 10 tasks by using this.
> [hope you know the DVRs running Linux].


iostat would be useful too


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I mean top 10 tasks by using this.
> [hope you know the DVRs running Linux].


I know it runs a flavor of Linux.

Having access to that will help at best 0.01% of the customer base. It would be a total waste of time and resources.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Very helpful approach for those "0.01% of the customer base" who're posting here in hope for get help.
Nothing to waste BTW, Linux already have those commands (top, iostat, etc ) - the point is to get access to it when it need.
[You'll be better with posting having positive attitude - negativity didn't productive]


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## Quattro (Aug 1, 2006)

Add me to the list, as well. I was thinking my DVR was dying.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Very helpful approach for those "0.01% of the customer base" who're posting here in hope for get help.
> Nothing to waste BTW, Linux already have those commands (top, iostat, etc ) - the point is to get access to it when it need.
> [You'll be better with posting having positive attitude - negativity didn't productive]


how is knowing what process is doing what going to help a user since they have no control over it? Are you advocating giving users ability to alter running processes? yeah that would help them....
and for better posting clear and structured language helps the most.


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## firtft (Jan 29, 2007)

Mine was also noisy, I erased what I could that dropped it from 25% available space to 47% available. No more noise. 

We will see what happens when it begins to fill up again?


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

I was having this problem aslo, but then I read on another post that putting the DVR in standby makes it run maintenance or something like that. So before I left for work one day, I put it in standby and when I came home, it wasnt making that noise anymore. Something tells me that "maintenence" is a defrag or something similar. You might want to do that also.


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

I've noticed this also in our bedroom HR21. It does seem to have started with the latest software update. It's VERY noticeable (annoying) when you are trying to go to sleep and you hear something like the hard drive doing a defrag. Like it was mentioned, I cleaned out some old recordings and got to about 60-70% free disk space. It seemed to stop making the noise continuously, but it still does it often now. 

I haven't noticed our HR20 in the living room doing this. It may be because we sit further from the TV/receiver and just haven't noticed.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

We put our HR20 in standby for probably 14 hours per day, and keep it at about 50% free, but it is still much noisier than before the update.

Not that it matters, the room is noisy anyway.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

David McLeod said:


> how is knowing what process is doing what going to help a user since they have no control over it? Are you advocating giving users ability to alter running processes? yeah that would help them....
> and for better posting clear and structured language helps the most.


Seen DTV QA poor work very often, giving us some report tool will help produce valuable reports here and feed unique wide base data back to developers.
[Why I should see another person's negative attitude while problems arising?]


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The additional noise should not be of any long term concern. I do expect there will be some improvement to this situation in a future version.


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## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

Mine just started doing this last night. At first I thought a semi-truck was idling outside of my house, then realized it was my DVR.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

nikwax said:


> I've seen exactly the same behavior on my HR20-700, including the video stutter. Really annoying. And the noise of the head thrashing makes my living room sound a bit like a data center. I'm contacting DTV now via email, I'll post the response.


No response from DTV so far, not even an acknowledgement. Bugger.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

nikwax said:


> No response from DTV so far, not even an acknowledgement. Bugger.


Don't expect any kind of announcement from DIRECTV ..


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Don't expect any kind of announcement from DIRECTV ..


Would it be worthwhile to reboot the units to see if anything resets itself to help this issue, at least until another solution is provided?


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## kd4ao (Jun 12, 2004)

I get the idea that this problem is very wide spread. My HR20 is reacting the same as most of the others. I thought at first that it is getting ready to bite the bullet but after a few days it calmed down although it is still noisier than in the past.


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## FrostyMelon (Dec 22, 2007)

Same with me - Hard drive seems louder.


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## RonH (Jul 25, 2007)

Add me to the list,thought my HD was about to crash.


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## mridan (Nov 15, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Would it be worthwhile to reboot the units to see if anything resets itself to help this issue, at least until another solution is provided?


rebooted mine twice,did not help.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

DTV's response:

All DVR and HD-DVR receivers make a little noise. This is normal because they have complex electronics, including a disk drive. But if you feel that the noise that you are getting from your receiver is intolerable we may need to do some troubleshooting. Unfortunately, we are limited to what types of issues we can handle by email but we want to ensure your system is up and running again as quickly as possible. You may find some helpful information at the DIRECTV Technical Help forums where other customers share solutions to many DIRECTV receiver and entertainment system related questions. Just visit http://forums.directv.com/pe/index.jsp to learn more.

You can also call our technical support center at 1-800-531-5000 (please select the option for technical assistance).

sigh.......


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

on the phone with DTV now


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## majikmarker (Feb 28, 2005)

Add me to the list as well....


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

they're doing an escalation to engineering. However, they will not be contacting me so I've no way of knowing how the escalation is going to be resolved.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

cross posted on the DTV tech forum:

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?ie=x&postID=10601135


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

nikwax said:


> they're doing an escalation to engineering. However, they will not be contacting me so I've no way of knowing how the escalation is going to be resolved.


my experience with that is that its a blowoff.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

this seems to be DTV's stance:

"The latest software release includes more robust and thorough disk diagnostic and repair capability, so that might be causing more hard drive "noise"....The fact that you're also seeing video stuttering suggests that your drive is sick. You should replace your DVR."



And in fact DTV did offer to replace my HR20-700 yesterday. If I didn't have some much content on it, I'd consider taking them up on it.


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## RadioDR (Oct 8, 2009)

I have been having this problem for two weeks and finally today did a reset from the systems menu.

So far this evening the hard drive has behaved properly and I can watch uninterrupted TV again!

Yes!!


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

RadioDR said:


> I have been having this problem for two weeks and finally today did a reset from the systems menu.
> 
> So far this evening the hard drive has behaved properly and I can watch uninterrupted TV again!
> 
> Yes!!


When you say you did a reset, do you mean you cleared your hard drive and lost all your settings or did you just do a reboot?

I've had the noisy hard drive, audio, and video dropouts since the last software update.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Folks, it seems to me that there is simply a bit more activity on the disk than there used to be .. This is probably more for corrective/preventative action than anything else. This most likely just increases the chatter which makes it more noticeable than it used to be. It is doubtful that the drive is louder, but the noises are occurring more often than they used to. I noticed this as well.

I'm sure DIRECTV is aware of this and will do what they can.


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## dvisthe (May 27, 2007)

nikwax said:


> this seems to be DTV's stance:
> 
> "The latest software release includes more robust and thorough disk diagnostic and repair capability, so that might be causing more hard drive "noise"....The fact that you're also seeing video stuttering suggests that your drive is sick. You should replace your DVR."


My DVR is louder and I am getting audio drop outs and video studder since the last software update so

should I call Directv replace my DVR or should I wait until the next software update to see if it fixes the problem?


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## tssumners (Oct 18, 2007)

dvisthe said:


> My DVR is louder and I am getting audio drop outs and video studder since the last software update so
> 
> should I call Directv replace my DVR or should I wait until the next software update to see if it fixes the problem?


They are replacing my HR20-700 cause the tech. support guy said it sounded like the hard drive was about to crash. 
Watched a program that recorded last night and the ending was unviewable.


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## bpaulson (Jul 12, 2009)

I've been working with computers and hard drives for over 14 years (I'm 23) and what I can tell you is that most hard drives that are treated correctly do not just randomly "go bad"

If a hard drive in an iPod that's owned by a child can come out without any bad sectors after two years I'm guessing your HR2X that's been sitting nicely on a counter without being moved just up and developed bad sectors out of no where.

Between satellite interference by the sun which is happening at this time and the software update which causes the hard drive to be more active I highly doubt everyone who's posted in this thread has a bad DVR...

If you want a DVR with a high probability of going bad just get a cable companie's DVR...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Would be interesting to know what default value of AAM setting in DTV DVR disks. 
If it by default set to 128, then I would try to lower it to 0 and see if noise will be decreased. The command could be send from DTV Linux also.


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

Mine's been super loud too (HR20-700), grinding away at random times. I've done a reset and I'm at 80% free space. Called DTV and spoke w/a gal who wanted to take me through a whole bunch of cumbersome troubleshooting steps (which I didn't have time for). She said they have to do that before they can send out a technician, but whatever. She said they like to be able to hear the noise over the phone (??), but I explained it's pretty random and I can't make it do it on command.

If they're going to put out a fix, that'd be nice. If it's going to die, I'd rather avoid that. If neither of those I guess it's either live with it or keep trying Tech.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

uteotw said:


> If they're going to put out a fix, that'd be nice. If it's going to die, I'd rather avoid that. If neither of those I guess it's either live with it or keep trying Tech.


I'd say that 99% of these situations are not related to a failing HDD. Simply more activity that you may have seen (heard) in the past.


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## missparker10 (Feb 15, 2007)

I have a question on this. Would this only be with HD's included in the unit or could this be happening with an external drive as well? I ask because lately I've noticed the very same thing with my external drive, that runs off the HR 20-700. I am in panic mode about losing 500 GB worth of stuff. :eek2:

I mean if it goes, what can you do, but I hope maybe this could be a similar symptom with the new software.


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## Bronco70 (May 14, 2008)

My HR-21 is louder since the last update. Not a problem since my normal seating position is 20' away from the unit. It sounds like normal HDD noise.

My HR-23 in another room is still basically silent.

To put it in perspective, my old HR 10-250 was always louder. I could hear it from 20' (with no audio output or during very quiet scenes).

My original 80G PS3, an order of magnitude louder. The issue there is, of course, fan noise.

So no worries.

Joe


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I'd say that 99% of these situations are not related to a failing HDD. Simply more activity that you may have seen (heard) in the past.


Wow, what a difference a month makes... I posted on this topic over a month ago http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=164065
The general consensus at that time was a failing hard drive that I should replace ASAP. I still have not done that but still suffer the constant dropouts, stuttering and brripp's from the audio and the video. I also use the OTA input which all of the other units no longer are equipt with and adding a AM21 for no additional cost seems to be hit and miss with D*. I don't want to lose that feature b/c that is where I get my pristine recordings from. It seems there is always some sort of translation problem with D* LIL retransmissions and I can't deal with imperfect recordings of things I'm interestd in watching. Just wish D* could figure out a way to do what they have to do with these units and not have it effect the Picture or audio of the units.


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## Volunteer (Oct 14, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The additional noise should not be of any long term concern. I do expect there will be some improvement to this situation in a future version.


So what's changed to cause the disk thrashing?

Count all my 3 HR20's as constant thrashers as well ... the wife is almost to the breaking point of the one in the bedroom ... wanting the plug yanked so she can sleep ... something needs to be done about this.


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## ExtremerNC (Jul 12, 2007)

My HR20-700 is doing the same thing. It is getting very annoying. There has been a definite change in the sound of the grinding. My audo drops out and i have to rewind back a little bit to get the audio to start back up. My video is also dropping out/pixelating. If a replacement is going to do the same thing then someone needs to fix the software.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Folks, it seems to me that there is simply a bit more activity on the disk than there used to be .. This is probably more for corrective/preventative action than anything else. This most likely just increases the chatter which makes it more noticeable than it used to be. It is doubtful that the drive is louder, but the noises are occurring more often than they used to. I noticed this as well.
> 
> I'm sure DIRECTV is aware of this and will do what they can.


That's what I'm experiencing, a lot more activity, not louder just a lot more. It's occasionally non stop. It's not happening on my HR 21 just the HR 20 700.


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## bpaulson (Jul 12, 2009)

The hard drives on these things are a lot more quiet than any of the old TiVo dvr's... (stupid ball bearings that used to go out on Western Digital ATA drives and made a loud whine but worked perfectly fine.)

Just because the disk is constantly doing something does not mean it's going bad. These DVR's are doing a lot of crap all at once (or at least mine are between recording a ton of recording plus mrv and there's no issues.)

If a hard drive was going bad you'd hear a repetitive clicking noise or a metal on metal kind of noise.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Volunteer said:


> So what's changed to cause the disk thrashing?
> 
> Count all my 3 HR20's as constant thrashers as well ... the wife is almost to the breaking point of the one in the bedroom ... wanting the plug yanked so she can sleep ... something needs to be done about this.


I think there are simply doing better error checking on the drives .. So that reliability and stability improve.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ExtremerNC said:


> My HR20-700 is doing the same thing. It is getting very annoying. There has been a definite change in the sound of the grinding. My audo drops out and i have to rewind back a little bit to get the audio to start back up. My video is also dropping out/pixelating. If a replacement is going to do the same thing then someone needs to fix the software.


I noticed this as well when it first started, but honestly, I don't know if it's lessened or if I've just become immune to it, but I really don't notice the noises much on my receivers now.


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## ExtremerNC (Jul 12, 2007)

My reliability and stability was fine. Now i have a grinding that's causing me to pull my hair out. I'd rather have it the way it was!


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## JMII (Jan 19, 2008)

WOW I thought my hard drive was about to die, but it seems everyone here is having the "loud" hard drive problem. It was very slow the last few days as well, but a reboot fixed that, its back up to normal speed, but man that noise its making has got me nervous!


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I think there are simply doing better error checking on the drives .. So that reliability and stability improve.


With all due respect... proper drive error checking is NOT the sort of continuous, noticeable disk activity that so many (all?) are experiencing (listen to the disk drive on your PC. its not continually thrashing...). I would not be surprised if [whatever] function is causing the xtra disk activity is also a factor in the audio & video stutters that are being widely reported. It may also be a factor in the lost disk space issues being reported. Perhaps all the checking (or whatever is happening), combined with normal recording and playback functionality is overloading some aspect of at least some of the DVRs.

The evidence from the many, probably related reports offer a compelling case that something is improperly implemented in the latest s/w release. I find it disapointing that some/many of our "experts" seem to be discounting all these reports. It feels like the old "drinking the Corporate kool aid" scenario (although I realize the Experts on this forum are not actually DirecTV employees).


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## dvisthe (May 27, 2007)

It's not just the noise, it's the audio drop outs and video stutter that goes along with it.


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## markp (Mar 4, 2004)

Wow this is really annoying...thought it was just me.


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## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

missparker10 said:


> I have a question on this. Would this only be with HD's included in the unit or could this be happening with an external drive as well? I ask because lately I've noticed the very same thing with my external drive, that runs off the HR 20-700. I am in panic mode about losing 500 GB worth of stuff. :eek2:
> 
> I mean if it goes, what can you do, but I hope maybe this could be a similar symptom with the new software.


My loud one is my external on an HR20-700


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm having the issue as well. Kind of annoying.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Volunteer said:


> ...
> 
> ... something needs to be done about this.


Time for D* to move over to solid state  lol.

FWIW, I've reported elsewhere, my hard drive is thrashing too. Very annoying, glad I found this thread.

I'm not certain yet, but can we pinpoint whether or not this only occurs when DoublePlay is in use?


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## missparker10 (Feb 15, 2007)

jaywdetroit said:


> Time for D* to move over to solid state  lol.
> 
> FWIW, I've reported elsewhere, my hard drive is thrashing too. Very annoying, glad I found this thread.
> 
> I'm not certain yet, but can we pinpoint whether or not this only occurs when DoublePlay is in use?


I've yet to use Double Play at all and I get the issue, so it's not solely related to DP.


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## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

missparker10 said:


> I've yet to use Double Play at all and I get the issue, so it's not solely related to DP.


+1 here


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## iamqnow (Dec 26, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I noticed this as well when it first started, but honestly, I don't know if it's lessened or if I've just become immune to it, but I really don't notice the noises much on my receivers now.


My HR20-700 started blanking out, first with recordings, then with real time. Also grinding away like a bad bearing. D* replaced it with a new HR22-100. It got the new update right away, and is still much quieter and works way better than the older receiver. Runs way cooler too.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

FWIW if you want quiet use Laptop drives. Thye'll run cooler, use less power and be quieter.

Get a External case with eSATA and get some 2.5" to 3.5" brackets to mount the drive. Noise problem solved.

I'm do not know if the internal drive can be changed? If so that would make the HRxx run cooler too as less power used and less drive heat generated.

My 2 cents worth. I have done it to other DVRs in the past and the noise level went from annoying to Ahhh.... in the bedroom.

Cheers


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## MoInSTL (Mar 29, 2006)

Had the same issue on my HR20-700 being very loud along with some audio/video brips and pixelization. Decided to get a replacement before the fall season started. I have the slower HR22 but it's *very quiet* and only a rare audio glitch here & there that I suspect is in the feed. Brips and pixelization went away as well.


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## daveshouse (Feb 6, 2008)

Well, after starting this thread, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. I still notice quite a lot of hard drive churning and some audio drop outs.


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## gopherhockey (Mar 24, 2003)

I've been with DirecTV for a long time... but this loud hard drive is a major FAIL on their part.

After being woken up yet again last night due to this issue I'm looking for suggestions from people who have solved this issue. My first thought was to call and demand some kind of replacement/upgrade but I wanted to see if anyone has tried that.

Note: I shouldn't have to shell out for new hardware to fix this. 

Anyone who thinks this issue is minor, doesn't exist, or is just a hard drive failing = double fail.

DirecTV... just fix it already!


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I think there are simply doing better error checking on the drives .. So that reliability and stability improve.


this is DTV's assertion as well, and I think it's nonsense. Constant error checking? Is the focus of the system to perform diagnostics with a little DVR thrown in, or the other way round?

If DTV is really concerned about data integrity, they could run ZFS and RAID, the data is verified when written and maybe run a scrub every two weeks.


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## MattDing (May 12, 2008)

nikwax said:


> this is DTV's assertion as well, and I think it's nonsense. Constant error checking? Is the focus of the system to perform diagnostics with a little DVR thrown in, or the other way round?


:lol: Exactly!

I'm not sure what the hell process the hard drive is doing in there, but whatever it is my system seems to feel it takes precedence over smoothly playing back content or responding to remote commands.

But, hey, if it's all to improve reliability and stability I'm all for it. I'm sure those improvements are coming "soon."


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

iamqnow said:


> My HR20-700 started blanking out, first with recordings, then with real time. Also grinding away like a bad bearing. D* replaced it with a new HR22-100. It got the new update right away, and is still much quieter and works way better than the older receiver. Runs way cooler too.


I've seen this as well .. It's definitely not related to the HDD as I had this happen a couple of times over this past weekend while I had two different TV sets on two different set top boxes connected to two different satellite dishes exhibit the exact same behavior at the exact same time. This appears (to me) to be related to the MPEG4 video from somewhere upstream in the process.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

gopherhockey said:


> Anyone who thinks this issue is minor, doesn't exist, or is just a hard drive failing = double fail.


Not all hard drives exhibit the exact same noise characteristics .. Additionally, what's loud to you may not be loud to someone else as people don't exhibit the same characteristics either.

As for a solution, I do not have a good one other than to find a way to add something that may muffle the sound. I think the situation will improve on it's own in a few weeks, but I'm not completely sure. I may have simply become immune to the noise.


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## billikens20 (May 14, 2006)

My HR20-700 was loud as well. Last Wednesday, the hard drive crapped out and was in Hard Drive scanning mode for the next 72 hours. 
Before the last update, never had a problem with the box.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Not all hard drives exhibit the exact same noise characteristics .. Additionally, what's loud to you may not be loud to someone else as people don't exhibit the same characteristics either.
> 
> As for a solution, I do not have a good one other than to find a way to add something that may muffle the sound. I think the situation will improve on it's own in a few weeks, but I'm not completely sure. I may have simply become immune to the noise.


The "noise", as an issue, is subjective. For me, the "noise" is not an issue. I have my Hr20-100 in a cabinet in my living room. Others many have their DVR sitting on a shelf near their bed and hence the "noise" is an issue.

The underlying issue [causing the noise] is SIGNIFICANTLY increased disk activity. It may be related to new disk diagnostics in the latest s/w release (that seems likely...). And, I suspect that increased disk activity is in competition for disk or other DVR resources (memory, CPU, bus bandwidth, etc) with normal record and playback functions AND that may well be contributing to the audio and/or video dropouts that are well documented in other threads (and also likely related to the "lost recording time issue" and/or slower DVR functionality also documented in other threads).

I sure hope someone of influence is assisting DirecTV in putting this all together or that they are [silently] already doing so...


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

One of my HR20-100's is on top of my desk right next to my computer screen (about 12" from my arm) so I am fully "aware" of it all the time. It's basically a "spare" used rarely only for conflicts or watching the news while I am at the computer. 

What I have noticed was that every so often (every couple hours?) the hard drive activity would suddenly start in full force. Almost like it was dumping large amounts of data to the disk or maybe sorting some sort of database info. It would be loud and continuous for about 5 minutes then would stop until the next time a couple hours later. DP has never been on and nothing is being recorded when this happens. Even when something IS being recorded there is no disk activity sound either. Whatever is going on in the background is really "stressing" the drive for that few minutes. 

This HR20 has been in the same spot for over a year and always has been 100% quiet even when recording. Whatever is going on is causing some pretty heavy disk activity.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> What I have noticed was that every so often (every couple hours?) the hard drive activity would suddenly start in full force. Almost like it was dumping large amounts of data to the disk or maybe sorting some sort of database info. It would be loud and continuous for about 5 minutes then would stop until the next time a couple hours later.


Interesting you should say this .. maybe you're on to something.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Interesting you should say this .. maybe you're on to something.


I believe so. TBlazer's symptoms mirror what I see as well (save for the fact that I believe I have heard the disk thrashing while using DP).

I am unfortunately not becoming immune to the drive noise that is being experienced on two HR20-700s that have been quiet throughout their long lives. These bursts of frantic drive activity are intrusive and annoying, most especially when the A/V system is turned off and one is trying to do something like read in the same room as a DVR.

Whatever code changes DirecTV made that are causing the thrashing, my family would beg them to fine tune.


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## gopherhockey (Mar 24, 2003)

TBlazer07 said:


> What I have noticed was that every so often (every couple hours?) the hard drive activity would suddenly start in full force. Almost like it was dumping large amounts of data to the disk or maybe sorting some sort of database info. It would be loud and continuous for about 5 minutes then would stop until the next time a couple hours later. DP has never been on and nothing is being recorded when this happens. Even when something IS being recorded there is no disk activity sound either. Whatever is going on in the background is really "stressing" the drive for that few minutes.


This is *exactly* what I notice. The odd thing is I have the very same model in the next room and that one makes 0 noise. Only difference with that one is we don't use it as often, and I've never used the double play feature on it. (not sure if thats related, I doubt it)

We unplugged our DVR last night and slept much better. I plan on pulling power to it every night until I either get DTV to replace it or it crashes so they have to replace it. (I admit I haven't called them yet, waiting to see if anyone else has had success... last thing I wnat to do is spend an hour on the phone with them only to get the same model with the same problem as a replacement)

I have no doubt someone knows exactly what cause this and how to reverse it. The question is will they.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Well, if you want to check the Automatic Acoustic management settings for the hard drive, you'll have to open the box and pull out the hard drive. (Unless someone already knows this). Doing this violates the warranty for owned boxes and most likely  violates the lease agreement. Plug it into your PC and run the hard drive manufacturer's configuration tool. Or use this one:

http://hddscan.com/

Don't bother with the SMART diagnostics. They are useless. You can try the linear and butterfly read if you think your disk is bad.

This won't fix the audio/video glitches though. For that you need to rewrite the code or get a real OS.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Actually SMART is very useful part if you know how to use it - one example: after it invoke corrective action and passed, the SMART status could be changed back to GOOD from BAD (of visa versa in case if the HDD soon to die).


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I don't believe this issue is AM related because drives that have been completely silent have suddenly started having this issue. It's not a continuous issue but occurs in "bursts" every couple hours even when nothing is being recorded.



bobcamp1 said:


> Well, if you want to check the Automatic Acoustic management settings for the hard drive, you'll have to open the box and pull out the hard drive. (Unless someone already knows this). Doing this violates the warranty for owned boxes and most likely  violates the lease agreement. Plug it into your PC and run the hard drive manufacturer's configuration tool. Or use this one:
> 
> http://hddscan.com/
> 
> ...


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## qprhooligan (Dec 5, 2007)

gopherhockey said:


> I've been with DirecTV for a long time... but this loud hard drive is a major FAIL on their part.
> 
> After being woken up yet again last night due to this issue I'm looking for suggestions from people who have solved this issue. My first thought was to call and demand some kind of replacement/upgrade but I wanted to see if anyone has tried that.
> 
> ...


I don't think the problem is with the hardware. It is a software problem that was created with the latest firmware download. Even if you got a new DVR you would still probably have noise issues. The only way to solve this IMHO is for DTV to change the software in the next release, and I am not going to hold my breath waiting for them to fix it, ever.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

qprhooligan said:


> I don't think the problem is with the hardware. It is a software problem that was created with the latest firmware download.


Absolutely related to the software update, though it appears to affect some models more than others, perhaps related to the drives typically used in them, different noise dampening measures in the hardware design, and maybe even whether they were setup with acoustic management on by default.

Two quiet HR20-700s here became periodically very noisy immediately upon installation of the new software, and both test out fine on all disk tests.


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## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

The one in our bedroom we seldom record anything overnight anyway so we bought one of those cheap "dial" wall outlet timers and it automatically powers off the DVR at 10:30PM and powers it back on at 7AM. It has become so loud it would chatter louder than the fan in the room (which we use for white noise). We've had the unit for nearly 2 years and it has always been annoying, but recently (new build?) is unbearable. I've always wondered what the acoustic management on the drive was set at. Since it is leased, I can't open it and fine out.

The timer works great. After putting it on the timer my quality of sleep has improved significantly. And my DVR is also rebooted daily. The unit is leased and seems no worse for wear.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

dvisthe said:


> It's not just the noise, it's the audio drop outs and video stutter that goes along with it.


EXACTLY!!! and this did not just start with the latest CE or National download either, it's been going on for over 2 months for my 2 HR20-700's now.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> One of my HR20-100's is on top of my desk right next to my computer screen (about 12" from my arm) so I am fully "aware" of it all the time. It's basically a "spare" used rarely only for conflicts or watching the news while I am at the computer.
> 
> What I have noticed was that every so often (every couple hours?) the hard drive activity would suddenly start in full force. Almost like it was dumping large amounts of data to the disk or maybe sorting some sort of database info. It would be loud and continuous for about 5 minutes then would stop until the next time a couple hours later. DP has never been on and nothing is being recorded when this happens. Even when something IS being recorded there is no disk activity sound either. Whatever is going on in the background is really "stressing" the drive for that few minutes.
> 
> This HR20 has been in the same spot for over a year and always has been 100% quiet even when recording. Whatever is going on is causing some pretty heavy disk activity.





Doug Brott said:


> Interesting you should say this .. maybe you're on to something.


or Maybe instead of it dumping information as suggested, it would be extracting information such as usage, viewing/recording habits, channel prefrences, any internal problem flags, etc.........? In either case would a multi HD unit remedy this annoying problem, perhaps all the work can be done on the one drive-saved-and input/output during standby hours and the second drive be left to do it's normal job, thus eliminating the chatter-dropouts-picture breakup and so on? Just an idea FWIW, I'm not even sure if something like that is feasible. I do agree in theory that it does sound like the unit is pulling double duty now and it doesn't like it.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> I don't believe this issue is AM related because drives that have been completely silent have suddenly started having this issue. It's not a continuous issue but occurs in "bursts" every couple hours even when nothing is being recorded.


I don't think D* changed the AAM settings. It would just be curious what they are set to out of the factory. Hopefully they are cranked all the way to "quiet".

I guess the HR drives aren't really all that quiet. A really quiet drive would have lots of activity and you still wouldn't hear it. I have put such a drive in my Tivo. I have to put my ear on it to hear anything. I can tell after a service download there is a flurry of activity, as the DVR is a tad slower to respond to remote commands. But I can't hear it at all. The DVR fan is a lot noisier by comparison.

It's a hardware problem -- the hard drive isn't whisper quiet. It's just that the latest software update amplifies the problem. I don't know what D* did, but it sounds like they need to put it back the way it was.

Just curious if the issue occurs with people using eSATA as well....


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## drcurtis (Sep 3, 2007)

I have two HR20-700 units and the drives in both have always been noisy, as hard drives go. What we are experiencing is similar to doing a hard drive defrag, or Windows buffering memory to a hard drive. It's a lengthy read/write cycle to the drive. This takes enough resources away from the rest of the unit that it can't properly record at times, leading to stuttering audio and video. 

If you replay the video it will stutter in the same spots at times, indicating the problem occured during recording. There is no reason for the software to suddenly perform diagnostics and efficiency routines while actively recording. That can be done at other times.

'Hardware diagnostics' and whatnot have no reason to stress the drive with so much activity so often. A well-maintained hard drive would not run this long of a service routine dozens of times each day. There are programming flaws in the update that need to be fixed. Any suggestion that we have dying hard drives is a joke---for now, but this is surely not good for them in the long haul. Anyone who has had a loud hard drive on a computer has heard the same heavy read/write cycles hundreds of times, and can differentiate them from a physical hard drive issue in a heartbeat.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

I reported this right after the update. I can note that my HR20 (which sits right above the HR21) got the update several days before the HR21, and the HR20 made all the noise until the HR21 got the update too. Now they are both louder. I wondered if I was approacing a drive fail until the HR21 started making all the same noise after the update. That means its the software doing it.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Juanus said:


> I was having this problem aslo, but then I read on another post that putting the DVR in standby makes it run maintenance or something like that. So before I left for work one day, I put it in standby and when I came home, it wasnt making that noise anymore. Something tells me that "maintenence" is a defrag or something similar. You might want to do that also.


I put mine in standby every time I turn off the TV, and they are still as noisy as ever.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

islesfan said:


> I put mine in standby every time I turn off the TV, and they are still as noisy as ever.


Indeed. Standby doesn't stop the drive noise.


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## StangGT909 (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm having the issue too.

My complaint isn't just the noise, but it skips/hiccups during playback and is VERY annoying. Some times it does it 5 times in a row.

I can't believe we are all having hardware issues..... hopefully it's software and they will fix it. 

Does anyone have any new thoughts/ideas?


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

StangGT909 said:


> I'm having the issue too.
> 
> My complaint isn't just the noise, but it skips/hiccups during playback and is VERY annoying. Some times it does it 5 times in a row.
> 
> ...


I'm seeing skips/hiccups too. Has to be software.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

StangGT909 said:


> I'm having the issue too.
> 
> My complaint isn't just the noise, but it skips/hiccups during playback and is VERY annoying. Some times it does it 5 times in a row.
> 
> ...


It's not a failing hardware issue. The hard drives should be OK even if they are worked like that. It will increase the failure rate a tiny amount, but it shouldn't be noticeable. It's more like a insufficient hardware plus bad code plus a wrong OS issue. Two of those items aren't getting fixed any time soon.


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## dniermeyer (Aug 1, 2007)

I have had the same issue, and found this thread. My wife always turns to me when it hiccups and says "I hate this box". The performance is the issue for us, not the noise, although I do hear it often.

I have been debating about getting an external drive for my HR20-700 for larger storage space. So I have a few questions...

1) does the external drive completely disable and shut down the internal drive?

2) how well do the external drives work (performance wise, which is my biggest complaint right now)


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## JMII (Jan 19, 2008)

islesfan said:


> I'm seeing skips/hiccups too. Has to be software.


Yep same here. At first the noisy part was scary now it just getting down right annoying due to the hiccups. I watching Mythbusters last night (live but record it as well) and about every five minutes the video & audio would freeze for a split second :eek2:

Something has changed for sure... my two HD DVRs never had these issues before


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## llarch (Aug 19, 2006)

Based on some tests I did, the extra HD noise (activity) came with the Double Play capability. I noticed it in CE several months ago, so I rolled back to NR, and it went back to normal-quiet. Week later, went back to CE, got noisy again, rolled back to NR, got quiet, so I actually left it in NR for this reason until Double Play went NR, and yep, now noisy again with Double Play in NR. Doesn’t matter if Double Play is turned on or not and I have 70% space available.

I don’t have the stuttering/drop out issues, so I have no idea if that is related, but I’m 99% sure the extra HD noise came with Double Play.


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## bertbarndoor (Oct 19, 2009)

My dvr has been annoying me every day since the update. Like everyone else, I thought it was on its last legs. CLEARLY, this is an issue with the update. Common Directv, get on this!!! It keeps me up at night, I get the audio/video hiccups, and clearing out the list doesn't do anything. Soooo, what gives? It has been weeks? I'd worry about all the wear and tear on the hard drives being constantly in thrashing use. PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP!!!


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Man, am I glad I read this. I thought my drive was crapping out and was considering adding an external drive. Of course - it was a software update again. And of course - D* alerts no one they are aware of the problem. Right on par.


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## Stiv (Aug 22, 2007)

Hi -- If you are having this problem, I urge you to also post something on the DirecTV message board. Some folks over there seem to think it is a hardware problem. Here is the thread over on DirecTV's message board:

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10606851


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## korndawg (Feb 18, 2008)

Add me to this list too. Its almost constant. Watching football on CBS last sunday, I lost audio prolly a dozen times and had to power down unit to get it back. Then Sunday night, I'd lose both picture and audio while the harddrive was doing its thing. I called tech support and they think that a reformat of the harddrive wtih fix it. Ya, i doubt it!


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## pldepot (Sep 26, 2009)

I've had similar issues recently, but mine is not a constant hummmm. It is intermittent. Anyone else have this intermittently happen? I'm wondering if mine truly is a hardware issue or if it is related to the latest download. Thanks...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pldepot said:


> I've had similar issues recently, but mine is not a constant hummmm. It is intermittent. Anyone else have this intermittently happen? I'm wondering if mine truly is a hardware issue or if it is related to the latest download. Thanks...


The "loud" that most people are speaking of is increased disk activity. It's more of bursts of frequent click-click-click noises that probably come and go.

A "hum" or particularly a high pitched noise (like a constant scream) could indicate a hardware issue. However, it's not necessarily a hardware issue. The click-click-click is just activity and is on par with normal disk operation (which is more noticeable as folks have seen).


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## gunnarliden (Mar 22, 2007)

Mine is intermittent too. I have noticed it at different times, particularly when there is a lot going on.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Hardly on par with normal disk operation. Anyone that's had a pc in the last 3 decades should know this amount of disk activity is not "normal".


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

jjohns said:


> Hardly on par with normal disk operation. Anyone that's had a pc in the last 3 decades should know this amount of disk activity is not "normal".


I think the point was that the noise being made during the activity bursts is normal drive noise, not a screech, whine, hum, etc.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Normal noise - possibly.
Normal operation - hardly.


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

I emailed D* and after two copy/paste emails that said nothing, I said this was a known issue and I finally got this:

<<Thank you for writing. I'm sorry to hear of the ongoing issues you're having with your receiver. I did read your email and I am happy to assist you.

We certainly want to get this resolved for you. *We have not had any information that this is an ongoing issue for customers. *As the previous email agent mentioned, since you have the DIRECTV PROTECTION PLAN, the best way for you to get help as soon as possible is to call 1-888-667-7463 and choose the option to speak to a technical assistant. Our Technical Support agents are trained to walk you through a number of troubleshooting steps which are too difficult to try to talk through over email. At DIRECTV we strive to provide the finest in satellite television entertainment and outstanding customer service and we're glad you're a part of the DIRECTV family.>>

I don't want to reboot again because I really don't think that will help...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jjohns said:


> Hardly on par with normal disk operation. Anyone that's had a pc in the last 3 decades should know this amount of disk activity is not "normal".


I'd beg to differ on that .. All depends on what the needs are ..

as for "normal" .. that means "not broken" .. there are a couple factors here:


Noise is subjective .. Some noise will bother one person a lot while another person may not even notice the same noise
All drives are not equal .. some really may have less attractive acoustic qualities
The installed environment makes a big difference in how that sound carries


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## The_Geyser (Nov 21, 2005)

I have an HR20-700 that is doing this too. It is like the disk can no longer keep up with what it needs to do.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I'd beg to differ on that .. All depends on what the needs are ..
> 
> as for "normal" .. that means "not broken" .. there are a couple factors here:
> 
> ...


I'd agree with all of the above.

It is indeed "normal" drive seek noise, exactly as one will hear on a PC at times when the disk is particularly busy. Unfortunately, on both of our HR20-700s it has increased with the latest software to a point where -- subjective though reactions to noise may be -- everyone who has been in a room with one of our DVRs can immediately hear it quite clearly. These bursts of seek noise are far beyond the level that was typical for these two DVRs in 3 years of prior use.

It could very well be that our two DVRs (perhaps because they were among the first produced, or just random chance) have noisier drives and our room environment may be quieter than normal. That knowledge doesn't make the periodic busts of drive noise less annoying 

We are luckier than some, I suppose, in that we don't get any audio or video problems associated with these drive activity bursts.

If I didn't like the overall performance and reliability of the -700 model so much, I'd swap these out under the protection plan -- it's that annoying. But rather than throw out the baby w/ the bath water, I'll wait and see if DirecTV is able to tune things and get the drive noise back down to previous levels.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

HR20 are louder than others due to the vents on the top depending on the placement of the receiver. My old one you could hear clearly and then I built a new entertainment center which helped a lot due to better spacing. I also took some cork board and put it on the top of the shelf to help dampen echo's.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm having all the aforementioned hard drive activity issues after the latest software with very irritating audio and video glitches during ABC prime time shows, live and recorded. Now the ABC issues may not be related to the software but since the new season start coincided with the software update I'm not discounting it. I'm in Baltimore and watch ABC over WMAR if anyone else in this area has noticed problems.
John


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

The symptoms I have observed in the last few weeks are excessive hard drive activity often but not always accompanied by momentary freeze ups of video and audio when playing back a previously recorded HD program. 

It was so bad tonight that I called to file a complaint. After some investigation I was told that this is a known issue (since a few weeks ago) and a fix is on the way. The update is "under review" now (presumably some sort of QA cycle). CSR couldn't give an ETA but based on the status he saw for the update he thought it would not be more than 1 week.

I was offered a replacement system initially, but I refused that and asked the CSR to keep looking for known problems....which he then found.

For what it's worth.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

AntonyB said:


> I was told that this is a known issue (since a few weeks ago) and a fix is on the way. The update is "under review" now (presumably some sort of QA cycle). CSR couldn't give an ETA but based on the status he saw for the update he thought it would not be more than 1 week.


Closer than you might think ..


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Closer than you might think ..


As an eternal optimist (despite my recent negative posts regarding several issues with the latest s/w release), I'm on the edge of my Home Theater Seat with a smile and cautious optimism... Please let "The Force" be with the DirecTV s/w engineers!!!!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

TimoHT said:


> As an eternal optimist (despite my recent negative posts regarding several issues with the latest s/w release), I'm on the edge of my Home Theater Seat with a smile and cautious optimism... Please let "The Force" be with the DirecTV s/w engineers!!!!


You should broaden the SW teams: 


> -100 is made by Audiovox [was RCA/Thompson]
> -200 is made by Samsung
> -300 is made by PACE Electronics [was Philips]
> -500 is made by Humax
> ...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

P Smith said:


> You should broaden the SW teams:
> 
> 
> > -100 is made by RCA/Thompson
> ...


Time to update the ol' trusty legend .. -300 is now 'Pace' as well.

Also, -500 is Humax and -800 is NEC

Oh, and I think -100 is technically Audiovox these days, but I might have that one wrong.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

It depends on what the word "is" is, I guess.

The noise isn't the problem - the excessive disk activity is. And noise isn’t all it’s causing. The slow remote recognition complaints elsewhere are clearly caused by the excessive activity - the disk is busy so it’s slow to recognize the remote or sometimes only getting the first couple of keys. Along with that it's causing occasional freezes. How could it not? It sounds like someone in leather house slippers is jamming the ol' soft shoe on a floor covered with sawdust.

The fact here is that D* once again put out a new version update that wasn't thoroughly tested - leaving it to the end user for testing while D* takes the position of "let's see what they complain about", then we'll know what needs to be addressed" mindset.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

0x368 which started release today will be much faster than 0x34c .. The drive activity is not causing a "slow remote."


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> 0x368 which started release today will be much faster than 0x34c .. The drive activity is not causing a "slow remote."


For me just about everything is slower especially during the periods of audible hard drive activity since the last update. I'm also praying that the new update corrects this. If all this activity is some kind of new self correction then I'd rather it not correct anything because I wasn't having any obvious issues when it wasn't "correcting".
John


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Closer than you might think ..


I read the release notes for 0368 but saw nothing that called out a fix for this performance issue. Are we to assume that it is covered under the general heading of "Under the hood"?


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> 0x368 which started release today will be much faster than 0x34c .. The drive activity is not causing a "slow remote."


I have been quite vocal about issues with the 0x034c release in September. However, I got the latest 0368 release last night. AND, with that latest release the menus and guide response are VERY improved - MUCH faster. Subjectively, I notice the improvement. Also, I have some multi-function macros programmed in my remote and their success was inconsistent. I thought that might have been RF and/or IR signal issues. But, those macros are now consistent and perfect. I now think the prior macro inconsistency was due to sluggish and inconsistent response within my HR20 AND that the latest s/w release has resolved those issues.

I sure hope this latest release (368) also resolves issues with Lost Recording Time and audio/video stuttering. Its too early for me to address that from my Home Theater experience.


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## MattDing (May 12, 2008)

Would anyone who has gotten the new update and had previously had problems with stuttering playback care to weigh in about whether this issue is fixed or not? 

I haven't received the update yet so I'm still sta-sta-stuttering through all my recordings.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MattDing said:


> Would anyone who has gotten the new update and had previously had problems with stuttering playback care to weigh in about whether this issue is fixed or not?
> 
> I haven't received the update yet so I'm still sta-sta-stuttering through all my recordings.


I suspect we will generally see improvements in this area, yes.


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

MattDing said:


> Would anyone who has gotten the new update and had previously had problems with stuttering playback care to weigh in about whether this issue is fixed or not?


I'm running x368 and the problem is still occurring, sorry to say. Recordings last night still exhibit the problem. It is worse when I've got 2 HD programs recording and watching a pre-recorded 3rd. But, it even happens when recording just one HD program. But, I don't see it happen when simply watching HD programming.

Here is an interesting possible correlation: When I rebooted my receiver recently, during the reboot when the cached guide data is reloaded into memory (when the % bar is displayed and goes by really quickly), I get the same sound from the hard drive as when I have the problem. I'm wondering if in the last two releases, guide data caching is happening differently.

Either way, drive surface tests keep coming back fine (so I'm not going to run them anymore). This is definitely a software issue. I hope DirecTV is taking note..


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## llarch (Aug 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I suspect we will generally see improvements in this area, yes.


How about the noise associated with the excessive hard drive activity? I can't tell now because I was so annoyed by the excessive noise, I relocated the DVR to my closet.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

llarch said:


> How about the noise associated with the excessive hard drive activity? I can't tell now because I was so annoyed by the excessive noise, I relocated the DVR to my closet.


:shrug: .. waiting to see what everyone has to say


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## missparker10 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hmm...I didn't notice it until now. It's not making any noise whatsoever. Is it related? I have no idea but I can say, it hasn't been this quiet in weeks.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

missparker10 said:


> Hmm...I didn't notice it until now. It's not making any noise whatsoever. Is it related? I have no idea but I can say, it hasn't been this quiet in weeks.


Much quieter here. Though there are still some very occasional short bursts of noise, nothing like what was being experienced with the previous software.

(In fact, the DVR is likely as quiet as it was for years previously -- I'm just a little sensitized/paranoid towards listening for disk noise these days.)


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## qprhooligan (Dec 5, 2007)

MattDing said:


> Would anyone who has gotten the new update and had previously had problems with stuttering playback care to weigh in about whether this issue is fixed or not?
> 
> I haven't received the update yet so I'm still sta-sta-stuttering through all my recordings.


Not sure about fixed stuttering but the hard drive is not making the noise it did with the last update. it is back to normal. I give thumbs up to DTV on this fix.


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## MattDing (May 12, 2008)

MattWarner said:


> I'm running x368 and the problem is still occurring, sorry to say. Recordings last night still exhibit the problem. It is worse when I've got 2 HD programs recording and watching a pre-recorded 3rd. But, it even happens when recording just one HD program. But, I don't see it happen when simply watching HD programming.
> 
> Here is an interesting possible correlation: When I rebooted my receiver recently, during the reboot when the cached guide data is reloaded into memory (when the % bar is displayed and goes by really quickly), I get the same sound from the hard drive as when I have the problem. I'm wondering if in the last two releases, guide data caching is happening differently.
> 
> Either way, drive surface tests keep coming back fine (so I'm not going to run them anymore). This is definitely a software issue. I hope DirecTV is taking note..


Yeah, I still have it as well.  Same condition as you - it seems worse with multiple recordings plus playing back a third but it will happen on any recorded content even if it's the only thing the receiver is doing.

Turns out I got the update yesterday around 3am. I didn't have a chance to try it before I went to work but found the new version when I got home.

All my shows last night were a stuttery mess.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

I've had 0368 for a few days now and it does not solve the problem for my HR20-700. I still observe excessive hard drive activity accompanied by momentary freeze ups of video and audio when playing back a recorded HD program. 

It appears to me that the problem occurs less often, but it is not fixed. Last night (11/1/09) was a good example, between about 8:45 and 9:00PM EST. Suddenly the hard drive began to go crazy more or less continuously for a minute or two, and during that period the stuttering on playback was obvious. At other times I have heard the hard drive activity for only a few seconds at a time, not accompanied so far by freeze ups. 

So it seems that the behavior has changed, but not enough to solve the problem.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

AntonyB said:


> I've had 0368 for a few days now and it does not solve the problem for my HR20-700. I still observe excessive hard drive activity accompanied by momentary freeze ups of video and audio when playing back a recorded HD program.
> 
> It appears to me that the problem occurs less often, but it is not fixed. Last night (11/1/09) was a good example, between about 8:45 and 9:00PM EST. Suddenly the hard drive began to go crazy more or less continuously for a minute or two, and during that period the stuttering on playback was obvious. At other times I have heard the hard drive activity for only a few seconds at a time, not accompanied so far by freeze ups.
> 
> So it seems that the behavior has changed, but not enough to solve the problem.


When you say momentary "freeze ups of video and audio" are you talking about the occasional black screen and audio loss? I see this on some programs as well, but it has zero to do with the HDD or the set top box for that matter. This particular issue is somewhere on the delivery end and the STB is getting exactly what has been sent. I'm pretty sure that if you rewind your recorded program and play back over that same spot that you will see the exact same thing happen. I saw this phenomenon happen on two different DVRs connected to two entirely separate distribution systems at exactly the same time.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> When you say momentary "freeze ups of video and audio" are you talking about the occasional black screen and audio loss? I see this on some programs as well, but it has zero to do with the HDD or the set top box for that matter. This particular issue is somewhere on the delivery end and the STB is getting exactly what has been sent. I'm pretty sure that if you rewind your recorded program and play back over that same spot that you will see the exact same thing happen. I saw this phenomenon happen on two different DVRs connected to two entirely separate distribution systems at exactly the same time.


No. If I replay the same segment, it plays fine - assuming the HDD activity has calmed down. I'm talking about the problem that only started occuring after 034C and has been described by many others here.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

AntonyB said:


> No. If I replay the same segment, it plays fine - assuming the HDD activity has calmed down. I'm talking about the problem that only started occuring after 034C and has been described by many others here.


Since you already have 0368, how old is your HR20? Is it approaching the 2-3 year mark? Could be the HD is just showing signs of failure. The internal HD began failing in my HR20 a few months ago, so I just disconnected it since I've been using an external for the last 2-2.5 years.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

AntonyB said:


> No. If I replay the same segment, it plays fine - assuming the HDD activity has calmed down. I'm talking about the problem that only started occuring after 034C and has been described by many others here.


I posted the exact same issue in another thread a while back. It's followed by numerous post blaming everything but the software. I've never before experienced any freezes/drop-outs or this much drive activity in the 3 years I've had my HR20. And for several people to start having the same issue at the exact same time leads to only one logical conclusion. And it's not hysteria, poor reception, or failing hard drives.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

CCarncross said:


> Since you already have 0368, how old is your HR20? Is it approaching the 2-3 year mark? Could be the HD is just showing signs of failure. The internal HD began failing in my HR20 a few months ago, so I just disconnected it since I've been using an external for the last 2-2.5 years.


Yes it is at least that old. However, the fact remains that I had no problem of this kind whatsoever before 034C.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

mdavej said:


> I posted the exact same issue in another thread a while back. It's followed by numerous post blaming everything but the software. I've never before experienced any freezes/drop-outs or this much drive activity in the 3 years I've had my HR20. And for several people to start having the same issue at the exact same time leads to only one logical conclusion. And it's not hysteria, poor reception, or failing hard drives.


I agree. Particularly since I only observe the problem when I can simultaneously hear an excessive amount of continuous HDD activity, neither of which I observed prior to 034C. (Not to mention that the CSR confirmed for me that this was a recent known problem that should be solved by 0368.)


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## cham (Jan 20, 2007)

havent chimed in in a while, but this is definitely software related. 

New release is about 50% better, but no where near as quiet as it used to be.

My favorite are the people who buy the directv 'its exposing hard drives that are about to fail'. 

argh


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

Just confirming that I, also, still have the problem. It is definitely a software issue, as many many others have also suggested. It seems to be limited to the HR20-700 line, as I don't hear many complaints from other HR models.

Lets hope DirecTV addresses this soon. While it isn't the 'end of the world,' it is a shocking change to go from near perfect recording all the time, to glitches in almost every recording.

Plus, that hard drive noise is really annoying..


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm sad to say that the problem remains for me as well. As all of you have noted when the the audible disk activity is really going the video will freeze momentarily with an audio drop out as well. Since the diagnostic tests all show no problems I don't think DTV will just replace the box. I do have the protection plan and may try to force the issue if no improvement occurs but I'm not hopeful.
John


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## sp44 (Dec 2, 2005)

pappasbike said:


> I'm sad to say that the problem remains for me as well. As all of you have noted when the the audible disk activity is really going the video will freeze momentarily with an audio drop out as well. Since the diagnostic tests all show no problems I don't think DTV will just replace the box. I do have the protection plan and may try to force the issue if no improvement occurs but I'm not hopeful.
> John


I've got the same problems. Might have to add the protection plan!


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

still seeing the issue here as well. If anything, it is worse. DTV suggested to me that I replace the unit...as I'm leasing it, does DTV pay for that or do I?

Concern: if this is truly a software issue, wouldn't a replacement unit have the same issue?

Question: has anyone experiencing this issue replaced their unit and seen the same problem?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

nikwax said:


> still seeing the issue here as well. If anything, it is worse. DTV suggested to me that I replace the unit...as I'm leasing it, does DTV pay for that or do I?
> 
> Concern: if this is truly a software issue, wouldn't a replacement unit have the same issue?
> 
> Question: has anyone experiencing this issue replaced their unit and seen the same problem?


This is not really a software issue .. But some drives will be louder than others.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> This is not really a software issue .. But some drives will be louder than others.


With my HR20-700 [seagate] I hear "some" hard drive noise. A few months back I ran the diagnostics and it seemed to have helped some playback issues and the drive "isn't as noisy" [as before].
With my HR21-200 [WD] the fan is the only noise I ever hear from it.
YMMV


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> This is not really a software issue .. But some drives will be louder than others.


this seems to contradict the majority of posts on this thread....can you explain?


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't see how this isn't a software issue when almost everyone here and on DTV's own forums started reporting the issue right after the last update. I hadn't even checked any DTV related forums for almost a year because I wasn't having any issues until that 34c software. However if it is hardware and all this is an indication of a failing hard drive what do we say to a csr to get the units replaced when all the diagnostic routines show no problems?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

The extra disk activity is a result of the software updates, hence the complaints about "loud" drives, which seems to be greatly improved in 0368. The disk failures are far more coincidental, even though a large percentage of DBSTalk posters are sure they must be related to software updates. You start to push an aging drive a little, it may begin to show. I'm sure there are also enough people here that the only time their boxes get restarted is a power failure, some glitch like a total lockup, or when new software comes along...meaning if one of the other two hasnt occurred in awhile, of course the update will get blamed even if it isnt the culprit.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

nikwax said:


> still seeing the issue here as well. If anything, it is worse. DTV suggested to me that I replace the unit...as I'm leasing it, does DTV pay for that or do I?
> 
> Concern: if this is truly a software issue, wouldn't a replacement unit have the same issue?
> 
> Question: has anyone experiencing this issue replaced their unit and seen the same problem?


Yes, a replacement could have the same issue.

You don't pay anything except the $20 to ship the old unit back. Make sure D* doesn't extend your commitment "by accident".


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

As I mentioned earlier, while 0368 has helped address this problem of momentary freeze-ups when playing back recordings, it is not fixed yet. 

Does anyone here who is close to DirecTV know if this issue is still being looked at? Is it likely that an update to 0368 will solve the problems for those of us who still see hiccups on playback of recorded programs? 

Having a sense of whether this is going to be fixed completely in the software or not would help me decide whether to wait it out, or ask for a new DVR. The latter route has several drawbacks and I would prefer to see the problem fixed in software.

Thanks.

HR20-700


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I echo AntonyB. If this is solvable by software I'll wait, if not I would want a new dvr as well. My concern about that is how do we ask for a replacement when the box's own diagnostics indicate no problems?
John


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

I think our only real option is to wait. I hope (and believe) that DirecTV is aware there is something going on with the 20-700s. Certainly, they are probably getting more tech support calls with people complaining (who aren't aware of this forum). 

While I don't think we will get a 'rush to fix' patch sent out, I'm hoping the fix will be in the next software release.

I have no idea how you would be able to ask for a replacement for something Level 1 tech support probably isn't even aware of. Plus, I've had my HR20-700 connected to a UPS since day one and it has been given much tender loving care by me. Who knows what a replacement unit you get sent has been thru.....


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Has anyone considered the possibility of what might be going on with the 20-700's is they are the oldest HR series models out there? They already had to replace pretty much the entire fleet of H20-600's due to that heat issue, which IIRC was the 1st in this model line.

Anyway, the point I am getting at is they're starting to get old, the 3+ year old PCs where I work are beginning to have more failures as well, and they are just coming out of warranty....


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

This is not a software issue.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Care to elaborate? If D* thinks that, we're doomed. Chatter isn't caused by failing hardware. It's caused by fragmentation. They've changed something that's caused fragmenting (or at least doesn't manage it as well), or added something that's doing some background tasks during playback that it didn't do before. It happens about once every 24 hrs for me. You must admit the HDD is working much harder with the introduction of double play and other unnamed playback features than it used to.

To all those waiting for a fix, may as well go ahead and get in line for a replacement. They've abandoned the HR20-700.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Then, how do you explain how some HR20-700 users have seen success with the new software?


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Every DVR will be fragmented differently, depending on what been recorded, or deleted or buffered, and when. If they're lucky, it won't be enough to cause a freeze during playback. If not, the drive head will have to jump all over the place for certain files. I had zero issues before the NR version, as did most others in this thread. 

How do you explain simultaneous hardware failure that just happened to occur when the NR rolled out?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Every DVR will be fragmented differently, depending on what been recorded, or deleted or buffered, and when. If they're lucky, it won't be enough to cause a freeze during playback. If not, the drive head will have to jump all over the place for certain files. I had zero issues before the NR version, as did most others in this thread.
> 
> How do you explain simultaneous hardware failure that just happened to occur when the NR rolled out?


I have no idea. :lol: I wanted to just pose the question, as I have no idea why some people have or don't have issues. Just trying to get ideas out there.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

This isn't the only issue that some have and others don't. Many currently have issues with spontaneous jump to end using 30 slip/skip. I've never had the issue. Some have it constantly. I have no idea how that can be.

I would at least like to see D* acknowledge they're taking these reports seriously and not off-handedly dismissing them because a 3 yr old hard drive should start failing about now. I've got 15 yr old hard drives still going strong. So I don't buy that argument for a minute.

Terse "It's not the software" comments don't convince me one bit. It's all pure speculation. Where's the evidence to back up that claim? Is it logical to think that DP and MRV required no new file management code? Come on.


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

I would also like to ask Doug to elaborate on this point. Everything I've seen points to a software issue that occurred two National Releases ago. So many of us HR20-700 users reported the exact same thing at the same time. I have run the DirecTV diagnostics on the drive and it continues to come up clean with no issues.

The only way I think Doug could say that is isn't software is if DirecTV has determined that the HR20-700s with a particular hard drive installed have exhibited the problem. Thus, it is a hard drive issue, thus hardware.

My only response to that would be that I never had a problem until the NR two releases ago. The unit always recorded two HD programs and could playback a 3rd without issue. Now, doing that causes problems.

As for the fragmentation question: I don't believe this is a fragmentation issue. I really believe it has to do with guide data caching and/or indexing. Since I hear the drive thrash about once per hour or so, I could imagine a scenario where guide data trickles in and once per hour it is indexed for searching and other issues. During that index, the drive is being taxed (or the processor is being taxed) and that is causing our dropouts and lost seconds of recordings.

I REALLY REALLY hope DirecTV hasn't written this off. Doug's comment makes me believe that they might have and getting a different model HR is the only solution. Of course, if that is the case, then we have to assume DirecTV isn't sending out refurb HR20-700s with the 'suspect' hard drive model in them.

My $0.02 worth.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

MattWarner said:


> As for the fragmentation question: I don't believe this is a fragmentation issue. I really believe it has to do with guide data caching and/or indexing. Since I hear the drive thrash about once per hour or so, I could imagine a scenario where guide data trickles in and once per hour it is indexed for searching and other issues. During that index, the drive is being taxed (or the processor is being taxed) and that is causing our dropouts and lost seconds of recordings.


I think you hit the nail on the head. Background tasks like indexing could easily cause this. In their attempts to speed up the guide and add new search features, they've interfered with playback. Since the HR20 has the the slowest hardware, it can't keep up.

It really sucks that D* may have written this off. I really need an HR20 for OTA. And I don't want to get stuck in another 2 yr commitment. I guess I'll have to live with it until Uverse makes it to my street in a few months.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

mdavej said:


> Every DVR will be fragmented differently, depending on what been recorded, or deleted or buffered, and when. If they're lucky, it won't be enough to cause a freeze during playback. If not, the drive head will have to jump all over the place for certain files. I had zero issues before the NR version, as did most others in this thread.
> 
> *How do you explain simultaneous hardware failure that just happened to occur when the NR rolled out?*


I explain simultaneous hardware failure after the NR by simple reboots, some people's boxes never get rebooted except when new software rolls out. So they *blame* the software, when it really could be a hardware failure due to age.


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## SlimyPizza (Oct 14, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Care to elaborate? If D* thinks that, we're doomed. Chatter isn't caused by failing hardware. It's caused by fragmentation. They've changed something that's caused fragmenting (or at least doesn't manage it as well), or added something that's doing some background tasks during playback that it didn't do before. It happens about once every 24 hrs for me. You must admit the HDD is working much harder with the introduction of double play and other unnamed playback features than it used to.


I have to chime in here and say that I noticed the HDD churning (loudly) after the previous software update was pushed (the one with DP). It was quite obvious there was something going on differently with the hard drive. I'd never heard such loud activity and it definitely affected playback with pauses, freezes, and occasional black screen all while the HDD was churning excessively. Note that nothing else was going on - no DP, no recording of other programming - just happily viewing recorded content when suddenly the HDD went into its churning mode (again this did not occur prior to two releases ago).

This issue has been reported and discussed by numerous subscribers all with the same timing (introduced with the 034C release), same description (excessive HDD churning where there was none before), same effects (obtrusive noise and affecting playback visual and audio). This is obviously a problem introduced in a software update either directly or indirectly.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

For the first time tonight I observed the problem (momentary freeze ups) when I was NOT playing back a recorded show. I was not actually watching "live" - but just a few minutes behind live in the buffer. No other program was being recorded at the time. And yes, I rewound and rewatched that segment to make sure I didn't see it again i.e. this was not a broadcast problem.

HR20-700


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

MattWarner said:


> I have no idea how you would be able to ask for a replacement for something Level 1 tech support probably isn't even aware of. .....


FWIW, the first time I called to complain (back in the 034C days) I was offered a new DVR almost immediately, by the first CSR I spoke with. I don't anticipate a problem getting a free replacement, but I don't want to go down that path unless there is no other option. Hence the desire to find out if this is still on DirecTV's radar to fix.


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## oenophile (Dec 1, 2006)

I have 2 units with external esata drives. They're both loud now; they weren't before this release.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

oenophile said:


> I have 2 units with external esata drives. They're both loud now; they weren't before this release.


That's an excellent data point. In theory you can unplug those drives and test them on your PC without opening the DVR. I have a hunch they'll be fine.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> That's an excellent data point. In theory you can unplug those drives and test them on your PC without opening the DVR. I have a hunch they'll be fine.


I have a hunch they will be as well.


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## mridan (Nov 15, 2006)

MattWarner said:


> I would also like to ask Doug to elaborate on this point. Everything I've seen points to a software issue that occurred two National Releases ago. So many of us HR20-700 users reported the exact same thing at the same time. I have run the DirecTV diagnostics on the drive and it continues to come up clean with no issues.
> 
> The only way I think Doug could say that is isn't software is if DirecTV has determined that the HR20-700s with a particular hard drive installed have exhibited the problem. Thus, it is a hard drive issue, thus hardware.
> 
> ...


Nicely stated,D* really needs to fix this because I can't watch TV or a Blu-ray for that matter because of all the D** noise.Plus all of the audio/video disturbances.My HR20-700 never made any noise up untill the last two software releases.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mridan said:


> Nicely stated,D* really needs to fix this because I can't watch TV or a Blu-ray for that matter because of all the D** noise.Plus all of the audio/video disturbances.My HR20-700 never made any noise up untill the last two software releases.


Just for clarity, the "noise" is increased activity and head chatter that is making it more noticeable. I'd say the decibel output has neither increased nor decreased. But yes, I get your point.


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## mridan (Nov 15, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Just for clarity, the "noise" is increased activity and head chatter that is making it more noticeable. I'd say the decibel output has neither increased nor decreased. But yes, I get your point.


The decibel level in my opinion has increased,otherwise the cochlea of my inner ear wouldn't pick up this chatter as you call it.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

Does a moderator with connections to DirecTV know exactly what this update was intended to accomplish? I've read that it involves hard disk drive "diagnostics". Some folks have intuited that it not only diagnoses but fixes hard drive problems. Does anyone know for sure?

For example, does it seek out and attempt to repair bad blocks? Analyze disk fragmentation, and perform a defrag? Other? 

If it performs some sort of repair function, then there is reason to hope that over time the undesirable side effects (hiccups on playback, excessive/noisy HDD activity) may diminish, because there is less to "repair". It might also explain why some people see these problems while others do not.

This would be another data point to help me decide whether to ask for a relacement system (really don't want to go down that path) or wait it out and see what happens.

Thanks.


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## Getteau (Dec 20, 2007)

maybe it just catches my sleep cycles at the wrong time, but the HD noise on my HR21-700 seems to really kick in around 5AM. I also hear it at other times, but the 5AM activity has woken me up more times than I can count. It's almost like the noise I hear when the box reboots. However, in this case, there are no spinning blue lights, so I know it hasn't rebooted on its own.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

There is more being done on the system than there used to be .. This means more disk activity .. that's pretty much the bottom line. Generally speaking, this is a good thing.


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## mridan (Nov 15, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> There is more being done on the system than there used to be .. This means more disk activity .. that's pretty much the bottom line. Generally speaking, this is a good thing.


It's not a good thing when it interferes with my viewing experience,i.e.soft dialogue of program.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

And it's certainly not a good thing when it causes the video to freeze.

So, Doug, you admit there is more disk activity, but that it's not related to software??? In what universe can that be true? A disk doesn't do anything unless the software tells it to. Doesn't this mean D* needs to do a better job managing background tasks so they don't interfere with playback?


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> There is more being done on the system than there used to be .. This means more disk activity .. that's pretty much the bottom line. Generally speaking, this is a good thing.


as one of my colleagues quipped, some engineer's idea of a computer is that it's a platform to run diagnostics on. ;-)

Massively disrupting the viewer's experience in the name of increased diagnostics or system activity is bass-ackwards.


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## CopyCat (Jan 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> There is more being done on the system than there used to be .. This means more disk activity .. that's pretty much the bottom line. Generally speaking, this is a good thing.


I hope it is disk defrag to speed things up


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I've opened a poll .. Let's continue discussion in the following thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168109


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