# Dish Network turning into directv scum



## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Self edited. 

but the title says it all. 

Trying to oppress public information 
that about hardware design 
and what other companies do.


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## maddawg (Jan 25, 2003)

What are you talking about?


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

maddawg dont even concern with it. Just apparently dish network has decided to oppress harmless information about what other companies have done in the past and advance hardware discussion.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Could you elaborate on the "oppress" part of this rant. What public information are you reffering too? Finanical records? Programming plans? 

I see that mention hardware design. That information is usually prorietary and would not be ever considered "public" information.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Even if you could say hardware infomation was protected. I think dish network is the wrong company to be complaining as the dp board is amazing similar to the UTV board so if any company has the right to complain it microsoft... 

I would post pictures of both the dishplayer 7200 and the DTV Ultimate tV boards side by side but dish network might want to oppress that too.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2004)

Cyclone said:


> Could you elaborate on the "oppress" part of this rant. What public information are you reffering too? Finanical records? Programming plans?
> 
> I see that mention hardware design. That information is usually prorietary and would not be ever considered "public" information.


See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=30356


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Someone from the Dish Network corporate office called this morning requesting that we remove the specifics of the potential ways that stonecold posted in that thread to defeat the ECM going out now for the 7100/7200s. Whether it was meant as a hardware discussion or not, I found that the request reasonable, considering our policy of not allowing hack talk here.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

It is not defeating the ecm. 

Bell express no longer has the software.
And I stated the wrong chip on the board and all i said was mess with it. Farest thing from how to stoping there ecm. 

Also you dont defeat the ecm with hardware ecm happens do to priates and what they put on those little access cards. 


again my vauge references are the farest thing from a step by step tutorial on how to repair pirated boxes. 

And when does Dish have the right to tell me what i can talk about a company that is not theres.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2004)

It's the platform you are using, stonecold. You don't have the right to free speech on a non-public internet forum. You can start a Yahoo! group and discuss this to your hearts content. DBSTalk, and the other sites have cordial relationships with the DBS providers, in part, because they don't support or condone hack talk.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Regardless of one's personal feelings about on TV provider or another. Hacking is stealing. It's that simple.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Some people have the mistaken notion that the First Amendment applies anywhere / anywhen. This is NOT quite true - A newspaper, radio or TV station, or an Internet BBS are NOT obligated to present information that they do not agree with - if you want to say whatever you want - then create your own. Nobody is stopping you. Your First Amendment Rights can be expressed there to your heart's content. Otherwise - "He who owns the press can decide what goes into the press".


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

gpflepsen said:


> It's the platform you are using, stonecold. You don't have the right to free speech on a non-public internet forum. You can start a Yahoo! group and discuss this to your hearts content. DBSTalk, and the other sites have cordial relationships with the DBS providers, in part, because they don't support or condone hack talk.


  

so this isn't a public forum?  

So basically this site and others are run by dish and dtv. So if you post a truth about either company (that is not illegal) but its something that neither of those companies want the public to be aware of or know about...then they can just have the post edited or removed???????

nice!!!!!

stonecold - glad you didn't say anything about dtv, otherwise this site would have been taken down and we all would have gotten letters and sued. Becuase we all know that if dtv says your a theif...you MUST be  

P.S - I know that each forum has their own set of rules which must be obeyed if you want to post there (that is COMPLETELY understood and accaptable). But if you follow the rules of the site and dish or dtv can have info supressed from a public domain, which this is. That is the scary and unacceptable part


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

cboylan3 - That is correct - NONE of these bulletin boards are "public forums" - you DID read the terms of service, didn't you ?

However - neither Dish nor DirectTv are running these forums - that is your moderators and administrators, who wish to maintain good relations with the vendors. Give them a break - they (and the DBS vendors) generally won't have a problem with you expressing an opinion, but proprietary information related to hacking can (and likely WILL) be suppressed.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

So what's going on over here?

You people are whining that you can no longer get away with hacking the displayers, get the F outta here and start paying for your friggin Pay TV service...


:nono2:


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

scooper said:


> cboylan3 - That is correct - NONE of these bulletin boards are "public forums" - you DID read the terms of service, didn't you ?
> 
> However - neither Dish nor DirectTv are running these forums - that is your moderators and administrators, who wish to maintain good relations with the vendors. Give them a break - they (and the DBS vendors) generally won't have a problem with you expressing an opinion, but proprietary information related to hacking can (and likely WILL) be suppressed.


yes I did read - 
(i) This is a free speaking forum but not a free-for-all. Most posts will not get deleted unless they break one of the rules listed above.

I know that each forum has their own set of rules which must be obeyed if you want to post there (that is COMPLETELY understood and accaptable). But if you follow the rules of the site and dish or dtv can have info supressed from a public domain, which this is. That is the scary and unacceptable part


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

BFG said:


> So what's going on over here?
> 
> You people are whining that you can no longer get away with hacking the displayers, get the F outta here and start paying for your friggin Pay TV service...
> 
> :nono2:


noone ever said that! I'm talking about speech not hacking or anything else illegal


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Well there is nothing had to do with hacking... I will admit that some of the infomation needed to be pulled from the thread. But some other information is what I am *****ing about.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

With all my ranting about Dish as far as I know they have NEVER had reason to pull a post of mine, and for certain most of my posts are negative.

I saw the diascussion before the edit, and thought the hack info should be removed and the poster warned the next time ban would result.

hackers are thieves, pure and simple..........


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

_This is being moved over to the Admin forum. - *Holtz*_


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

lol, looks like someone is disturbing chit again..

stonecold come on man.. have some manners..

As i told you already...general non-hacking population could not care less about some stuff that you post.. (be it hardware or whatever you are definatly walking the border line with your expressions).. This is NO HACK info talk board.. - but you keep on going to some specifics.. time after time..
Nobody really cares that much about this info here anyhow..
Just a fact that Dishnet ECMed 7x00s DPs should have been enough..
Say - "Good..".. "Way to go" or whatever.. but no need to go into details..

And if Someone from Dishnet comes here and politely asks people WHOSE forum this IS to take something down.. - well they are in charge.. they can do whatever they decide the best for the smooth forums operation (they = mods and admins)

Again.. you talking some info that most of people can get by WITHOUT here.. outdated technical info at times also..may i add..

If you want to talk about this info - i am pretty sure you know some places on the net that you can visit.. and talk about all this chit as much as you want to talk Here... or even More!
But put it this way.. what you saying is just a technical info.. nothing special in it (not to say that this in itself allows you to Say what you Wish HERE though.. NO!).. all i am saying - i am pretty sure in some of those other forums they more likely talking about much more Advanced info that you provided here..

Bottom line stonecold - People here.. either they are simply NOT interested to hear this chit.. or.. they are smart nuff to know all this on their own.. long ago..
but smart nuff, ethical etc.. - not to shoot their mouthes unnessesarily on a NON HACK (and NO simular controvercial info, etc) forum.. ... where regular honest subscribers DO NOT really want to hear about it, or could NOT care less..

No offence.. just my 2 pennies....


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Darkman,

Like a said above. While I think there was some key information that had sliped out of my mouth. And should be delted. There was other infromation that I took offence for being removed.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

no matter..
no big deal anyhow..

even if other info was OK.. - it's very Common and Widespread, that if something in the post is being deleted..for the MODs to just delete the entire post..

Surely not a big deal..
However that fact surely doesn't mean that the forum is running by Dishnet, etc...


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes it does. it means next time dish network does not like something said here they dbstalk is going to roll over and play a good dog and do what ever they say. Heaven forbid that DBStalk pist off Echostar LLC


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## james39 (Dec 10, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> hackers are thieves, pure and simple..........


yeah right, whether someone hacking is doing it ethically (testing one's own network for vulnerabilities) or not? This statement is an outrageous generalization which assumes people only hack computer systems because they hope to gain information to use for stealing someone's money, ID, or (in this case) satellite programming.

These are dangerous attitudes to have, as we start getting know-nothing senators out of Utah (hypothetically speaking  ) trying to put laws through that would land anyone in jail just because they were **too smart** for their own good. Now, that is a frightening thought. As a nation, we ought to have a policy of rewarding intelligence and creativity, and not to ever punish someone if they choose to "hack" for the sake of learning (naturally, there should be punishment if someone attempts or commits theft)

don't equate the tools with the crimes. "hackers" are NOT necessarily thieves, despite the fact certain people in this society who ARE thieves, would learn how to hack in order to do their illegal activities.


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## chelsea (May 1, 2003)

Its nice to hear that Charlie's crews is reading dbstalk. Perhaps somebody
could switch the title word of sXXX, to something less racier for the nice people that continue to brings us compelling programming, have stepped ahead of directv with locals, and put forth the effort as the only company with a chat. They've shown good intent this spring & summer.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

> Its nice to hear that Charlie's crews is reading dbstalk. Perhaps somebody
> could switch the title word of sXXX, to something less racier for the nice people that continue to brings us compelling programming, have stepped ahead of directv with locals, and put forth the effort as the only company with a chat. They've shown good intent this spring & summer.


Here.. Here! .. I ll toast and drink to that


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

No there scum. I could down a list of sites that were forced off due to echostars pressure from there isps. That were not even hackers sites. One guy had figured out how to add IR remote functions to a 4500 which is uhf only so you could use a regular remote instead of an uhf remote. dish took him down. Because they dont like anyone showing off how to legally modify there hardware. Next thing you know they will start suing people with dishplayers who added bigger hds to them as since they opened up the box they must be pirates. Like I said they are acting like direct tv. Not that direct tv did not have a point with going after people with one type of smart card programmer but they really neede more evidence before trying and sue someone.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

stonecold - you are a controvercial person..

I recall, before.. firstly you said you were a Hacker.. But .. became Ex-Hacker.. and went straight.. saying all Hackers were scum and such... and Praising Dish and DTV..

Now you leaning the other way.. Suddenly E* and D* are scum.. and even though you are not worshiping the Hackers.. you are not putting them down neither.. just basically "the freetvers" as you have put it...

On the other hand.. you keep on talking hacking terminology/technology/methods and loopholes.. on a NO HACK talk forum (which was mentioned to you over and over again).. talking it ..over and over again in return to the Mods and others requests...to the mostly "non-hack community" audience who would not care rat's a$$ about this or that method to revive certain reciever model, etc


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes but if I remember right you brought it up not me.

I had mention that I had just had bad ebay luck with people selling ecmed reciever
You mention fixing them. 

I then went to a little too far and was vaugely described the two ways for that model. And said it simply just was not worth it. ( Note this is one of the parts of our coversation that I feltit was apporite to pull.) Some but no some how the mention that bell express had apparently in testing a 7200 series got them mad too. Not like hackers can do anything about it. Bev pulled the 7200 off Nimq1 right before they launched Nimq2 and Nimq2 does not contain the software for them either. Like that was some big insider secert. 

Hackers are scum for one reason either you are a freetver or your hacker who made it there point there point to make alot of money off the first group. That all makes me sick.

Direct TV is scum for taking down perfectly innocent site such as one just like this. One site got pulled because the mention how to make dolby digital work a reciver that did not have it. Basicly what happen was there were two rca models that were identical one had dolby digital with optical out the other did not. One person figure out they apparently as a cost saving feature or something were putting the same boards in both models but on the unit that did not have dolby digital did have the decoder chip it in there it was just a matter of taking a piece of wire to fix to laser cut traces on the board. Then using a dremal or some other tool cutting a hole in the back and soldering on optical out as the board had the spot for the optical output .. They forced that site down and sued him for being a hacker. That makes them scum

Dish recently took down a site that delt with making older UHF models into IR models. Why they did not charge the guy with hacking they told his provider that he had to do with hacking. Then to oppress some information( again i think some of it should of been pulled as it did get a little over there to the right) But other stuff was perfectly harmless. 

Give me a ****ing break. 
There excuse was apparently it described how to defeat there ecm bull ****... It the ecm is caused by EMM64s since down from dish to the card. if they are triggered to to programing a pirate would have on the card then the box ecms it self. 

So if i wanted to tell people how to defeat there ecm I be listing and disecting there emm64 commands and then which infromation you need to move to a new dataspace on the card. 

And it not like I telling anyone step by step of any thing. Darkman Like I said.. Any hardware design discussions about the orginal dishplayer belong to microsoft. Until the day that Microsoft comes down here and says hey cut it out I think it open discussion but I wont push matters. 

I am not mad that dish step in and had some of the stuff editied but I do belive they went to far. Hardware discussion is not hacking. Techincal specs are not hacking.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I'm glad that DISH requested (and got) the information removed. In fact, I think this whole thread should be deleted. Stonecold keeps posting additional information that will help the "hacker croud". There is a fine line between "hardware discussion" and hacking and Stonecold clearly is (still) stepping over it. The fact that he is STILL posting additional information should (at least) get this thread locked. As I said, I really think that it this thread should be deleted.

Stonecold, I really question your motives posting the original stuff (and the additional stuff) in the first place. This IS NOT the place for it.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill R said:


> I'm glad that DISH requested (and got) the information removed. In fact, I think this whole thread should be deleted. Stonecold keeps posting additional information that will help the "hacker croud". There is a fine line between "hardware discussion" and hacking and Stonecold clearly is (still) stepping over it. The fact that he is STILL posting additional information should (at least) get this thread locked. As I said, I really think that it this thread should be deleted.
> 
> Stonecold, I really question your motives posting the orriginal stuff (and the additional stuff) in the first place. This IS NOT the place for it.


I am with Bill R on this, its time to delete or lock the thread. If the original poster isnt happy here he can always create his own board somewhere for hacking....

Agreeing twice with bill r in 2 days will wonders never cease


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2004)

cboylan3 said:


> so this isn't a public forum?


No this isn't a public forum. It's like a coffe shop. The owner can impose certain standards, such as NSNSNS. If someone comes in and starts laying out a portfolio of nudity on the tables (not that their's anything wrong with that) I would expect them to be kicked out or at least told to put them away.

Moderators exist here for a reason; to keep things within the confines of the DBS companies and their customers. Other forums have no moderation and they quickly turn into a zoo. They give little worth to their cause, other than giving button pushers a forum.

Post a graphic picture of sexual intercourse here, between a human and a donkey. See if your free speech in a public forum is honored.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I read the original posts, I thought they were interesting, but I can see why Dish wanted them deleted. Yes they did not say how to hack a box, but it gave people key words they could search for. It is not hard to find hacking sites on the internet, interested people could go look.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I agree - when posting, one should use common sense, basic smarts, forum's ethics, etc, etc...

couple of "slip ups" here and there.. is ok.. but for someone who is not a newbie on the forum should be pretty easy to figure out how to behave on the particular forum.. and which content would be looked upon as a contrivercial, not very ethical, etc, etc.. and which should be fine..within the forum's rules.. or within most of forum-mates' general outlook and point of view, regardless if own (outlook and point of view on what should be acceptable and what not) might differ from most of the others (expecially after being adviced to post more ethical and less controvircial content time after time... even long before latest fresh couple of threads) 

Stone.. chill a bit.. no need to push the envelope so hard.. 
Find something else to do with "all that energy" .. Be it good or bad (the energy that is)


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

gpflepsen said:


> No this isn't a public forum.


maybe we have different definitions of "public"

This site is open to the "public". everyone and anyone can read this info, there for its "public" information. It is not "private". it is not "restricted" to only certain people to view.



gpflepsen said:


> The owner can impose certain standards, such as NSNSNS. If someone comes in and starts laying out a portfolio of nudity on the tables (not that their's anything wrong with that) I would expect them to be kicked out or at least told to put them away.
> 
> Moderators exist here for a reason; to keep things within the confines of the DBS companies and their customers. Other forums have no moderation and they quickly turn into a zoo. They give little worth to their cause, other than giving button pushers a forum.
> 
> Post a graphic picture of sexual intercourse here, between a human and a donkey. See if your free speech in a public forum is honored..


I'll say it again for the 3rd time: I know that *each forum * has their *own set of rules * which must be *obeyed* if you want to post there (that is COMPLETELY understood and accaptable). *But if you follow the rules of the site * and dish or dtv or any other company for that matter, can have info supressed from a public domain, which this is. That is the scary and unacceptable part.

I'm not sure of who you are arguing with in the above argument, I've never said anything about not having and not obeying guidelines and rules.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Its unfortunate admin said at Es request. Better in the future to just delete stuff like this and say no more.....

Hacking references get deleted all the time, generally by new posters who dont know better. In this case the poster knew better and did it anyway

I saw the references and they had to go...

rules clearly state no hacking talk, poster didnt follow rules, what more is there to discuss, case closed if you ask me...


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Wow, Bob, we agree again.

I don't think that DISH should have been mentioned either. It make them (in some people's eyes) look like the bad guy when in reality the information (or, IMHO, the entire thread) should have been deleted with NO mention of who requested it since it didn't belong here (according to the board's own rules) to begin with.

A note to ADMIN: Why has the policy on hacking discussions changed so much on this board? As Bob said, "hacking references get deleted all the time". At least they used to; it seems now that ADMIN is more liberal toward hackers and I don't like that direction at all. I really don't understand why this thread is even still open.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

In all fairness to admin, it must be hard. between movers, modifying boxes to add features, and other grey area activities theres no clear cut line, although this one clearly was out of bounds.

I think we should all step back and appreciate the good job admin does here. 

I dont always agree with the decisions but appreciate all the hard work it takes to make this place run. Thanks to all involved!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

[in reply to Bill R's above post]

maybe because the last stonecold's thread didn't start as a usual "hack" info manner thread..

On the opposite it started as very much Pro-Dish and Anti-Hack.. something like: "Yahooo! E* got them 7x00s first time Ever!!! .. That's a Historical Event!!! .. Way to go E*!!!"

But then... as in the most of stonecold threads... the thread became more of a technical, controvircial and even not so ethical manner ..with stone admitting that he knows it's wrong to talk that chit on a NO HACK Talk forum.. but he just likes that technical/hardware/or whatever one can call it Talk.. and could not resist.. LOL

Then this thread was created.. What to call "this thread" .. - even i don't know 
I guess ..some type of an OFF-Spring of stone's unique energy


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Darkman said:


> [in reply to Bill R's above post]
> 
> maybe because the last stonecold's thread didn't start as a usual "hack" info manner thread..
> 
> ...


For what ever person who said that talking about the hardware it self and said it might not be public information well it is ... Microsoft filed complete specs and engineering drawings on US pattent office. while have full discoulser it allows them to close a loop hole in a law about reverse engineering to figure out how something works. Nintendo had does this from day one to keep reverse engineer clones from happening.

Both the Dishplayer and UTV and Xbox main board specs and design aspects are public knowledge.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - looks like it's hopeless.....

I TOO think now is GOOD time to close OR delete this thread 

and that's NO "3:16" .... maybe just the "bottom line" though


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