# What does E* have that D* doesn't?



## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

Most of us here are DTV fans and for various reasons. If DTV is truly better how is it that Dish convinces customers to sign up to their service?

The only commercials I see from Dish are the "same TV for less" commercials, but that can't possibly be enough all by itself.

What do you think it is?


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## volkl (Jun 17, 2007)

Dish used to be cheaper...don't know now after some of their new fees.

Dish packages are better for movie fans. I've had both, and my opinion is the SD picture quality of Dish was better, side by side. (Never had Dish HD, but many say the HD of Direct is better.) The Dish receivers are supposed to be faster and better, though that difference is quickly diminishing. I loved my 7200 SD DVR from Dish. Dish allows one to subscribe to adult channels beyond Playboy channel.

Dish & Direct compete, and if one is not a sports fan, the advantage switches between the two of them over time. We seem poised for a period where Direct will offer more HD, but we will see.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Aren't you in the wrong forum for this?


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## werinshades (Oct 11, 2007)

-Draino- said:


> Most of us here are DTV fans and for various reasons. If DTV is truly better how is it that Dish convinces customers to sign up to their service?
> 
> The only commercials I see from Dish are the "same TV for less" commercials, but that can't possibly be enough all by itself.
> 
> ...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I know someone that has Dish primarily because he was told that DirecTV is for sports fans.

For some, it could be as simple as Dish had their locals, either SD or in HD without having to do OTA.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Aren't you in the wrong forum for this?


Agreed Carl. This should be in a Dish forum to get the answer the OP is looking for.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

I was with Dish for ten years and I've now been with D* for just over a year. In my opinion, both providers offer a very similar service in terms of packages offered, but D* offers better HD picture quality and they will offer more channels in HD over the next 2 years because of them recently launching D12 and fixing D10.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Perceived price difference is pretty much it.

Forget "better" hardware. The average customer knows nothing about that. Forget "better" SD PQ quality. Again, average customer doesn't care that much. A lot of it comes down to people who want "cable in the sky" (not a knock, I mean the channel selection...basic channels) or their locals or more movie channels. But mostly it comes down to a preception of being cheaper.

Me, I see Dish as a PITA. More dishes, line of sight issues, complicated channel lineup (I spent a week in a Dish household two years ago and never got the hang of where the channels are...they even differ from location to location), lack of out of market sports, poorer HD PQ quality.

But I am a geek and check all this out.

Edit to add: I also think Dish is a regional thing to some extent. I drive through some areas and see a cluster of Dish dishes. I leave that up to local retailers (storefront installers other than BB or the like, rural antenna installers with Dish connections). That will push people locally. Own a farm in south central PA? My local antenna guy will give me a deal on Dish!


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

What does Dish have that DirecTV doesn't have?

Hmmm...pending lawsuits for blatant patent infringement, the impending removing of DVR's from customers homes, HD-Lite, multiple dish requirements, a habit of launching new channels on satellites many customers are unable to pick up before upgrading their equipment, a history of channel disputes, and a distant second place reputation.


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

Dish has pretty good audio.....


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

E* uses a much prettier gray paint on their dish than D*.


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## jasonblair (Sep 5, 2006)

Terre Haute locals... for the time being


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## ans2004 (Oct 28, 2008)

I am a movie guy, however i will not switch to dish just for that. I like the fulltime rsn's. they have good shows on when games aint being played. Also, next week we get some more movie channels in hd. Some old and some new. new are HBO ZONE, STARZ CINEMA, SHOWTIME WOMEN, SHOWTIME BEYOND, SHOWTIME NEXT, THE MOVIE CHANNEL XTRA. old are HBO 2, STARZ IN BLACK, ENCORE. i am excited for these channels. i also know that we patience comes reward. i am sure we will get many other new channels this year.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

drpjr said:


> E* uses a much prettier gray paint on their dish than D*.


With all those multiple dish setup's they need to try to make them look prettier. 

I know Dish is moving to a single dish setup but here in Austin I'm still seeing new installs going in with two dish's.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

I think one thing Dish has that DirecTV doesn't is a better deal for the customer looking for a basic setup with a programming package that includes just the basic popular channels.

For example, Dish offers AT120 w/o locals currently for $34.99/month, after expiration of promotional pricing. If you are already getting your locals with an OTA antenna, you don't need to pay the extra $5/month for locals. With the "Free HD for LIfe" promotion, you can get HD channels included at no additional cost, if you want. Depending on what model receiver you get, you could turn it into a DVR for a one time setup fee of $40 + cost of an external hard drive.

Isn't DirecTV's Choice package something like $54-55/month now?


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## freerein100 (Dec 14, 2007)

A co-worker has Dish* and they just launched locals. he has an eastern arc dish, the installer said he needs a second dish for locals but the only acceptable signal is where his dish 500 was which is 200 ft from his main dish, installer said it can't be done so no locals for him and he is not happy


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## espnjason (Sep 30, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> I know someone that has Dish primarily because he was told that DirecTV is for sports fans.


And he made a money commitment over that? 
I swear, some people never look at the whole picture.

----------------
From what I understood, E* has more "niche" PPV plus a broader scope of international and multiplex channels, although I don't care for either.
I still hope D* can pull through and get HBO Comedy. That's the one channel I am truly missing.


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## tgater (Jul 24, 2007)

My sister in law has E* becuase just the basics are less than D*'s. However she might as well have rabbit ears.


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

You don't get the audio drop outs with Dish in HD. That's a plus as I watch ESPNU HD. 
And you get a better selection of movie premiums with Dish. 
Everything else Direct is better. The 722 receivers with Dish were actually slow at times. I went through two hard drives in 2 years but Dish customer service was good if you could understand them. 
If Direct would fix their on going audio problems it would win hands down for the sports programming I lean toward. 
If they don't, I'll migrate back to Dish after next year when they go full time in HD on RSN's .


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

tgater said:


> My sister in law has E* becuase just the basics are less than D*'s. However she might as well have rabbit ears.


Hence my comment about "cable in the sky."


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

Is the picture quality really different? I know compression plays a role, but is it really noticeable?


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

-Draino- said:


> Is the picture quality really different? I know compression plays a role, but is it really noticeable?


I can't tell the difference but never did a side by side comparison. But others say the HD with Direct is better. Unfortunately I shut my Dish service off the say day Direct was installed. 
I thought Dish SD was really bad and someone else thinks its better. RSN SD games were flat unwatchable that's why I went with Direct that carried my RSN in full time HD.


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## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

Dish can send the send the 2nd tuner to another TV. 

This is a big deal for the non-technical people, they don't see the benefits of having a 2nd HD receiver or HDDVR.


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## Santana (May 12, 2010)

I was a long time cable customer before switching to satellite. Unfortunately, I went with DISH because they offered the better deal. Or so I thought. You definitely get what you pay for. I was plagued with spotty reception, and dealing with customer service was a miserable ordeal. I finally broke my contract and went back to cable because I was so fed up. No matter what the deal offered, I will never go back to DISH.

I was reluctant to lock myself into another contract with another satellite company, but DIRECTV offered such a better HDTV lineup than my cable company that I finally gave them a try. I am so glad I switched. The PQ has been excellent, service has been perfect, and customer service has always been helpful.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

Glen_D said:


> I think one thing Dish has that DirecTV doesn't is a better deal for the customer looking for a basic setup with a programming package that includes just the basic popular channels.
> 
> For example, Dish offers AT120 w/o locals currently for $34.99/month, after expiration of promotional pricing. If you are already getting your locals with an OTA antenna, you don't need to pay the extra $5/month for locals. With the "Free HD for LIfe" promotion, you can get HD channels included at no additional cost, if you want. Depending on what model receiver you get, you could turn it into a DVR for a one time setup fee of $40 + cost of an external hard drive.
> 
> Isn't DirecTV's Choice package something like $54-55/month now?


Ok the top 120 deal is ok but Directv also has one as well that's pretty much the same. It's called Select. They don't advertise the price but if you're looking to save money they will offer it to you. It pretty much offers all of the same channels as the 120 and is only $39.99 a month every day price. It has 128 channels and has most of the major networks in it including locals if available.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

prushing said:


> Dish can send the send the 2nd tuner to another TV.
> 
> This is a big deal for the non-technical people, they don't see the benefits of having a 2nd HD receiver or HDDVR.


Yes they can send that to another tv but what you have to look at is that if that receiver goes out then you lose it on both tv's not just one. Plus if you have HD it would be HD on one tv and SD on the second. Not to mention Dish charges $7-$17 per receiver depending on the type you have. $5 everytime that you change your package and another $5 per receiver that's not hooked to a phone line. Then they'll charge you $25 for suspending your account if you go on vacation and won't be there at your home to watch your service. $40 if you want to hook an external hard drive to your dvr. All of these are free with Directv except for $5 for receiver fees. So is it really worth it to have the 1 receiver that works 2 rooms. Not in my opinion.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

dtvmike1652 said:


> Ok the top 120 deal is ok but Directv also has one as well that's pretty much the same. It's called Select. They don't advertise the price but if you're looking to save money they will offer it to you. It pretty much offers all of the same channels as the 120 and is only $39.99 a month every day price. It has 128 channels and has most of the major networks in it including locals if available.


True, but Select is a retention-only package. No guarantee they will offer it to you. You would probably have to start out with Choice, then threaten to cancel your service after your two year contract is over to get the Select package.

Would you be able to get "Free HD" with Select?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

A few mis-statements are coming out here.

No $5 phone line fee is charged these days with E*, it has been gone for quite awhile.

External HD fee is $40 one time, but it supports an additional HD, not replaced. I can and do record onto the external HD and can move it to another Vip HDDVR, including the replacement if I upgrade or have an issue and the stuff on it will play on the new HDDVR just fine.

The change fee for programming is only if you drop a premium. They used to waive it pretty regularly, but not so much recently.

The receiver fees are definitely an irritant, but only apply to additional ones past the first.

As to the PQ in HD, to my eyes on my 54" Plasma the two are a bit different with neither being better than the other and barely noticeable. I tested that when I had both services.

In SD, I think E* has better SD on the HDDVRs than D*. Not hugely so, but better.

For D*, the HR24 seems to be the right box at the right time. When I had D*, I had the HR20 and then a HR21. The 20 was better and quicker but for whatever reason, just wouldn't work properly in my house. The HR21 worked but after a few updates, got so painfully slow I switched.

Two things that the Vip722k does that the HR24 doesn't do that I like are recording 2 SAT and 2 OTA channels at once and my timers and settings are saved in my remote so if a changeout is made I can reload them instantly.

I like the idea of MRV, I think that is hands down a better way of sharing video throughout the house than the way E* is doing it now.

As for programming, 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other except for sports.


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## Rusty_Clown (Apr 8, 2010)

It's not the cost savings, in my case. By the time I recouped the $300 for equipment to E* my 2 year contract would have expired. I also would lose a HD Local. The big reason I considered switching (and still might if they don't fix it) is the audio problems I am experiencing with D*. With D* adding more HD, everything my wife and I watch is now HD, so whomever has more of the channels I don't watch is irrelevant to me.


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## ARKDTVfan (May 19, 2003)

HD lite


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

ARKDTVfan said:


> HD lite


I always like this one, it makes me laugh. The difference between the two services in HD to the eye is minimal. But if a spec sheet makes you feel better...


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

ARKDTVfan said:


> HD lite





lparsons21 said:


> I always like this one, it makes me laugh. The difference between the two services in HD to the eye is minimal. But if a spec sheet makes you feel better...


When D* had HD-Lite and E* didn't the E* folks always were saying that D* had worst PQ, look they're not sending out full resolution HD so how could it look good while D* folks said that it looked fine to them. Now that things are flipped with the providers I see the same posts just reverse the vendors names.

What it comes down to is if you're happy with the PQ who cares what others think, just as long as your happy.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

You've all missed the obvious. What does Dish have that DirecTV hasn't? Charlie Ergen (take that however you want!)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Let me get this straight;

Except for the ability to send one of their DVR's tuner outputs to another TV, dish has no truly comparable MRV or Whole Home DVR Service solution like DirecTV's DECA as of yet? 

Not even any MRV via ethernet?

And I thought I heard that their latest DVR (the "Vip 922" is it? And do they still generically call all their DVRs "dishplayers?") have a built in SlingBox?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Well, you realize that supported MRV is really new for D*, don't you? It isn't like they had anything that would distribute at all before that.

And yes, the 922 has Sling support built-in, but it is suffering a few glitches from what I read.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> Well, you realize that supported MRV is really new for D*, don't you? It isn't like they had anything that would distribute at all before that. ...


No my surprise is in that it took DirecTV seemingly forever to come out with an MRV system, therefore I would have thought that dish would be way ahead of the game by now in this area like the other service providers FiOS and U-verse were.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> No my surprise is in that it took DirecTV seemingly forever to come out with an MRV system, therefore I would have thought that dish would be way ahead of the game by now in this area like the other service providers FiOS and U-verse were.


I would agree with that. Given that E* was making hay with the one unit-two rooms marketing for so long, it would have been a natural (and should have been quicker) progression to 2 HD connections.

On the D* side, I keep reading a bit. It seems that the H24/HR24 is the best combo to do MRV with. How are the older HRs holding up to the pressure?


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## YKW06 (Feb 2, 2006)

What does Dish have that D* doesn't? Superstations, a much lower-priced Sports Pak and lower equipment prices. If Charlie hadn't given up the MLB package a few years ago, I likely would never have left.


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## ronsanjim (Mar 19, 2008)

Glen_D said:


> True, but Select is a retention-only package. No guarantee they will offer it to you.


Select is *not* a retention package. It is available to anyone that requests it. Some CSR's are ignorant of it being available, but a call back to another CSR will secure Select, with locals ($39.99), or without locals ($36.99).


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

ronsanjim said:


> Select is *not* a retention package. It is available to anyone that requests it. Some CSR's are ignorant of it being available, but a call back to another CSR will secure Select, with locals ($39.99), or without locals ($36.99).


Maybe, but if I'm a new customer, can I start off by just getting Select at $36.99/month? If so, would there be a commitment, or could I cancel my service at any time without penalty? What about HD with Select? Would it be free also?

My point is that AT120 is an offical programming package at Dish that is eligible for new customer promotional pricing and free HD. Since DirecTV doesn't officially list Select as an available package, and only makes it available upon request (maybe) or as a retention tool (maybe), I doubt that very many people even know it exists.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> ... On the D* side, I keep reading a bit. It seems that the H24/HR24 is the best combo to do MRV with. How are the older HRs holding up to the pressure?


Well, from just using the MRV feature with only external DECA dongles on all receivers and no H/HR24s in the mix to do any actual performance testing, it is working fine for me so far.

Though I would like to see some actual numbers on signal loss and data rates on a PHY Rate Mesh test screen, but you need at least one H/HR24 in the DECA cloud the see these.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> On the D* side, I keep reading a bit. It seems that the H24/HR24 is the best combo to do MRV with. How are the older HRs holding up to the pressure?


Really not much of a difference once you start a MRV session. With a prior to HR24/H24 server/client the MRV session starts a little (like only a couple seconds) longer but once it's going no difference from what I've seen. I have HR24's, HR22, HR23 and H21's in my mix.


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## ans2004 (Oct 28, 2008)

Directv's sports pak is alot better than dish's. At least most of the ones on directv are fulltime channels. As far as superstations go, i din't care if i have them or not.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm a recent convert from Dish to DirecTV, solely for the reason of getting the regional sports networks in full time HD. I'm a hockey fan and I was willing to cut Dish slack while the RSNs themselves were only producing a limited number of games in HD, but as that count has gone up it became more frustrating with Dish.

That said, here are the big changes I've noticed thusfar:

- With DirecTV your equipment is luck of the draw. Like many others I got lucky and get a pair of HR24s with my new install, but it could have gone the other way easily.
- With Dish you can purchase the equipment outright and not have the 24 month commitment.
- The ViP dual tuner series has nifty features like Picture-in-Picture. This is really handy if you're watching a couple games -- even if the PiP window isn't up and you're watching a game full screen, you just hit "swap" to jump over to the other tuner with absolutely no delay in the switch.
- The ViP series had more flexible recording options. I always wanted to record the 2am showing of the Daily Show on Comedy Central, so I'd just select the 2am show, make the recording for M-F, and it would only record that time slot when the program guide said the show was the Daily Show. I would get the M-Th recording at that specific timeslot to avoid interfering with my other timers. So far I have been unable to perform this same type of recording on the HR24 except by setting up a manual timer, but that doesn't let you set things like how many episodes to keep.

Also, for the folks who commented on the multiple dish setup with E*, those configurations haven't really been required for a while. You have the 1000.2 for Western Arc (110/119/129), the 1000.4 for Eastern Arc (62.5/72.7/77), and the 1000+ for Western Arc w/ Internationals (110/118.7/119/129). In many markets both 1000.2 and 1000.4 will work, so you can use whichever single dish solution has line of sight to that particular satellite constellation.


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## am7crew (Jun 6, 2009)

I have both and what Dish has that Direct doesnt at the moment:
Way more premium HD channels (Epix, HBO's, Cinemax's, Encore etc)
A Box that comes with 1 TB of space (922)
Various HD channels D* doesnt have (E! HD, HLN HD, etc)
Thats about it that I can think of, oh yeah and the price is the same as D* for me (all channels 5 HD DVR's with D / all channels 3 HD DVR's with E).


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

am7crew said:


> I have both and what Dish has that Direct doesnt at the moment:
> Way more premium HD channels (Epix, HBO's, Cinemax's, Encore etc)
> A Box that comes with 1 TB of space (922)
> Various HD channels D* doesnt have (E! HD, HLN HD, etc)
> Thats about it that I can think of, oh yeah and the price is the same as D* for me (all channels 5 HD DVR's with D / all channels 3 HD DVR's with E).


If you have two more 922's wouldn't the cost be $34/month more on E* due to the $17/month 922 lease fee (need 922's to get the 1TB drive space)?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

espaeth said:


> - With Dish you can purchase the equipment outright and not have the 24 month commitment.


That option is available with DirecTV as well, though not advertised. The HR21-Pro is a "purchase (OWN) only" unit and is or has been available through a few online retailers.

You can also purchase the 'lease model' receivers/DVRs as owned units as well, but I believe only through DirecTV (or possibly private parties who are selling OWNED equipment). And the price is in the neighborhood of double what the standard lease cost is.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

espaeth said:


> I'm a recent convert from Dish to DirecTV, solely for the reason of getting the regional sports networks in full time HD. I'm a hockey fan and I was willing to cut Dish slack while the RSNs themselves were only producing a limited number of games in HD, but as that count has gone up it became more frustrating with Dish.
> 
> That said, here are the big changes I've noticed thusfar:
> 
> ...


As has been mentioned, with DIRECTV you can purchase any receiver. The easiest is the HR21-Pro as it was intended for owned purchase.

There is a way to "reliably" record _The Daily Show_ and use a retention setting. Make an autorecord keyword search for "JON STEWART NNOT SLANT CCHAN 249". Be certain to include plenty of padding on the end--Comedy Central has been known to lie in the guide about when the show will start/end, especially in the second showing. (And that is why I put reliably in quotes--the DVR is reliable, the data from Comedy Central is not.)

I've been using this autorecord for several months and it has been perfect. And it prioritizes correctly around everything else.

Cheers,
Tom


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I haven't read this whole thread...just the first post.

I'll tell you what they DON'T have.

NFLST


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## Dradran (Apr 21, 2010)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I haven't read this whole thread...just the first post.
> 
> I'll tell you what they DON'T have.
> 
> NFLST


+1

The main reason why I have DirecTv. A Pats fan in Colorado.


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## HerntDawg (Oct 6, 2008)

I read the whole thread, and waited until the last 2 to see my answer.

NFLST


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I know what else Dish has over DirecTV...busier lawyers!


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

espaeth said:


> Also, for the folks who commented on the multiple dish setup with E*, those configurations haven't really been required for a while. You have the 1000.2 for Western Arc (110/119/129), the 1000.4 for Eastern Arc (62.5/72.7/77), and the 1000+ for Western Arc w/ Internationals (110/118.7/119/129). In many markets both 1000.2 and 1000.4 will work, so you can use whichever single dish solution has line of sight to that particular satellite constellation.


Dish is definitely heading that way but there are still a lot of existing multiple dish installs and areas where you need multi-dish setups to get all your hd and sd locals.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

espaeth said:


> Also, for the folks who commented on the multiple dish setup with E*, those configurations haven't really been required for a while. You have the 1000.2 for Western Arc (110/119/129), the 1000.4 for Eastern Arc (62.5/72.7/77), and the 1000+ for Western Arc w/ Internationals (110/118.7/119/129). In many markets both 1000.2 and 1000.4 will work, so you can use whichever single dish solution has line of sight to that particular satellite constellation.





evan_s said:


> Dish is definitely heading that way but there are still a lot of existing multiple dish installs and areas where you need multi-dish setups to get all your hd and sd locals.


Don't know what's "special" then about Austin TX since I still see new installs going in and they're getting two dishes.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

RAD said:


> Don't know what's "special" then about Austin TX since I still see new installs going in and they're getting two dishes.


The only thing that would possibly be "special" is the installer. Austin, TX has SD locals on 119 (110/119/129 Western Arc), and HD locals on 129 & 61.5 so either a Western or Eastern Arc single-dish solution would work. Even with internationals off 118.7 they'd be fine using a 1000+ dish and pointed at the Western arc.


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## de_runner (Mar 31, 2010)

There are a number of markets that D* does NOT offer locals in HD, yet E* does. I live in one of them. D* has no plan to provide locals in HD here (Bakersfield) as evidenced by the list of those scheduled thru 2011. Bakersfield is NOT on the list.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

espaeth said:


> The only thing that would possibly be "special" is the installer. Austin, TX has SD locals on 119 (110/119/129 Western Arc), and HD locals on 129 & 61.5 so either a Western or Eastern Arc single-dish solution would work. Even with internationals off 118.7 they'd be fine using a 1000+ dish and pointed at the Western arc.


I think there are some issues with the coverage pattern of 129 so portions of texas can't get the stuff of 129. Like I said dish is working towards it but looking at the dish forums there still seem to be plenty of posts from people with existing multi-dish installs that suddenly aren't able to get new HD channels or new installs requiring multi-dish installs because of where locals are or coverage patterns of the sats or LOS or what ever.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

evan_s said:


> I think there are some issues with the coverage pattern of 129 so portions of texas can't get the stuff of 129.


There were issues with E*5 when it was covering the 129W slot. Ceil-II corrected the TX coverage issues when it was launched back in '08.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/150304-ciel-129w-footprints.html



evan_s said:


> Like I said dish is working towards it but looking at the dish forums there still seem to be plenty of posts from people with existing multi-dish installs that suddenly aren't able to get new HD channels


Which is why you shouldn't see multi-dish new installs. The folks who aren't getting the new HD had 110/119 and the 61.5 wing dish to pick up HD. New HD is being deployed on 129 and 72.7, so you need either a pure Western Arc 110/119/129 or Eastern Arc 61.5/72.7/77 configuration to get all the HD channels, and both of those are single dish solutions.



evan_s said:


> or new installs requiring multi-dish installs because of where locals are or coverage patterns of the sats or LOS or what ever.


The only real Frankenstein solutions would be existing customers who had existing MPEG2 SD receivers and added HD receivers when their HD locals are on 61.5 and not 129. Eastern arc is all MPEG4 so new installs get all HD/MPEG4 gear regardless if it's an HD or SD install. If you have legacy MPEG2 receivers for SD, that has to come off 110/119.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I find this thread interesting as I am thinking about dropping cable. Currently I get everything but premium channels & sports packages. Looking as the satellite packages it seems I would get most or all of what I watch with a basic package.

Dish & DirecTV both offer free HD & HD DVR depending on the package. Neither one has all my locals so I would need an antenna.

The cheapest Dish is $24.99/mon ($39.99/mon after 12 months) +$6.00/mon for DVR service.

It appears to get the free HD DVR with D* that you need the $34.99 package ($63.99/mon after 12 months) +$7.00/mon for DVR service.

D* does give me more channels but I don’t know if it’s worth the extra money in my case. After 12 month D* cost $24/mon more.

I’m also looking at other fees such a $6/mon for phone connection and $6/mon for a service plan. Depending an where I look the phone line may be there only for PPV, or maybe not.

A service plan seems strange to me. Paying a $6/mon service fee to someone to fix their own property does not seem right. But I guess the providers get their money one way or the other. With Dish it appears there is also a $15 charge if someone comes out to the house. Without a plan it is $95. I’m certainly not sticking up for Comcast, but there has never been a charge when they’ve come to the house for anything. If there was I would be broke!

One thing I do not see mentioned is how far out does the Electronic Program Guide extends for either D* or E*. Comcast used to extend 13-14 days until they did an upgrade. Now it is anywhere from 6-8 days. That really screws things if you are going on a 2 week vacation & want to schedule programs. I know you can program series, but not everything is a series. How far out do the guides extend for D* and E*?

FWIW, I do value customer service. It may be worth higher fees if the service is better.

Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

espaeth said:


> New HD is being deployed on 129 and 72.7, so you need either a pure Western Arc 110/119/129 or Eastern Arc 61.5/72.7/77 configuration to get all the HD channels, and both of those are single dish solutions.


My neighbor just got Dish installed last week as a new customer. We are in the NY DMA. He has the eastern arc dish. If he subs to the NY locals would they come on that dish or would he need another dish pointing in another direction ?


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

Mike109 said:


> I find this thread interesting as I am thinking about dropping cable. Currently I get everything but premium channels & sports packages. Looking as the satellite packages it seems I would get most or all of what I watch with a basic package.
> 
> Dish & DirecTV both offer free HD & HD DVR depending on the package. Neither one has all my locals so I would need an antenna.
> 
> ...


Generally, the guide for D* goes out about 14 days. There is no fee for phone line connection with D*. The Protection Plan offered by D* is OK. One thing to note, for D* at least, the dish and cabling become YOUR property once they are installed. The Protection Plan covers such things as tech visits to re-peak the dish should it shift for some reason...


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

All you really need to consider is how much you value picture quality. Pick the one and only sat provider to do it justice and you're all set.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> All you really need to consider is how much you value picture quality. Pick the one and only sat provider to do it justice and you're all set.


I'm really surprised we haven't seen one of those D* vs E* commercials yet that compares the two when it comes to HD picture quality. Of course not many people would probably understand that.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm really surprised we haven't seen one of those D* vs E* commercials yet that compares the two when it comes to HD picture quality. Of course not many people would probably understand that.


E* has that commercial. It's the, "We're screwing you, but you're too blind to see it!" ad.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Mike109 said:


> A service plan seems strange to me. Paying a $6/mon service fee to someone to fix their own property does not seem right. But I guess the providers get their money one way or the other. With Dish it appears there is also a $15 charge if someone comes out to the house. Without a plan it is $95. I'm certainly not sticking up for Comcast, but there has never been a charge when they've come to the house for anything. If there was I would be broke!


With DirecTV, and no service plan, if you have a receiver go out, you have to pay the $20 shipping and handling. With a plan, that is waived. As mentioned, it also covers reaiming the dish if it's ever needed, the service call is free. It's really valuable for people who own their own receivers. Without the plan, a bad owned receiver gets replaced with a leased one, but with the plan it's owned.

So in your case, it's mostly about tweaking the dish.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

Joe C said:


> My neighbor just got Dish installed last week as a new customer. We are in the NY DMA. He has the eastern arc dish. *If he subs to the NY locals* would they come on that dish or would he need another dish pointing in another direction ?


I'm not sure I understand this part. With the new packages they introduced in February you can't sub to Dish without locals if they are offered in your market.

The NY DMA is covered by spotbeams from 61.5. http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dn61&sub=true&sort=&order=&beamMap=E12_SB3.jpg


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## willardjuice (Jun 29, 2010)

The only thing I wish Dish had is the YES channel.  I have been happy with everything else though, which is why I have stayed with them. Having said that, every baseball season I'm always tempted to switch.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

espaeth said:


> I'm not sure I understand this part. With the new packages they introduced in February you can't sub to Dish without locals if they are offered in your market.


That's strange. The weekly junk mail flyers I get from Dish Advertise the various ATXXX package prices without locals, even though they've offered our locals for years. There is an astersk after the prices that states that local channels are not included, and that inclusion of those channels would be $5 extra per month.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

willardjuice said:


> The only thing I wish Dish had is the YES channel.  I have been happy with everything else though, which is why I have stayed with them. Having said that, every baseball season I'm always tempted to switch.


DirecTV has "three" YES channels: YES HD, YES Bonus Cam HD and YES Alternet HD. Ready to switch now?


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

Glen_D said:


> That's strange. The weekly junk mail flyers I get from Dish Advertise the various ATXXX package prices without locals, even though they've offered our locals for years. There is an astersk after the prices that states that local channels are not included, and that inclusion of those channels would be $5 extra per month.


Go to Dish Builder and try to order a system and package without locals:

https://www.dishtv.com/mydish.jsp

I can't speak to local advertisements, though I've seen those come from local retailers who are using vastly outdated marketing materials. A couple months ago I got a newpaper box ad that still showed Dish with the Voom channels, which is clearly incorrect.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm really surprised we haven't seen one of those D* vs E* commercials yet that compares the two when it comes to HD picture quality. Of course not many people would probably understand that.


Mostly because most people can't tell the difference. Yeah, I know that technically D* has a better HD, but with my 54" plasma 1080p set, I couldn't tell the difference at all, in spite of the tech spec sheets some like to trot out now and then.

Of course, then you find that the SD on E* is markedly better than D*, even though both aren't bad and it is mostly a wash.

Hoosier25 can always be depended on to make the point that doesn't matter in real world useage though!!


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

What does Dishnetwork have?

DirecTV Customer support gave me continuing headaches. 
Dishnetwork gave me what I want everytime. One exception when I tried to do something from work and couldn't prove I was me.

D* sports = Could care less, I stopped watching the Yankees when they started the YES channel. I stopped watching any sport after they had a strike.
E* premiums = many more channels that I want to see.

D* Older HR series HD DVRs would have cost me a fortune paying for the temper induced damage to the equipment.
E* = VIP622! It just works from day 1.

E* Multiple external hard drives for all HD DVRs in the house and they don't replace the internal drive. I can move to them and watch from internal or external with no unplugging.

D* seems to want to rest on their sports laurels. BBCA HD? Epix 1 & 2, Retroplex HD, Indieplex HD, Shorts HD (Some good stuff there).

E* First Integrated Receiver with a DVR ( I Used that one for years). Slingloaded DVR. I've been on a single wire feeding each dual tuner box for years, MPEG4 ?. My suspicion is that if E* didn't keep pushing D* a lot of things wouldn't have happened.

Lets not forget many more HD channels on E* while D* was having to to remove channels to support Season Ticket.

E* All DSS satellites for reduced rain fade.

I'm one one dish for eastern arc since my $15 upgrade. The Guy spent 2+ hours, New dish etc.

One year Cinemax for 1cent. 3 months free HBO/Showtime. Various promotional discounts that they sent me a postcard telling me I qualified for. Last one had three choices i could choose from.

E* No CSR Roulette. I always get it first time everytime.

YMMV


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> D* sports = Could care less, I stopped watching the Yankees when they started the YES channel. I stopped watching any sport after they had a strike.


Of course, with Dish, you have no choice.

:lol:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I wouldn't argue your points, but my experience with both services CSRs was good. In general knowledgeable enough to get me what I wanted on the first call. I have to give E* a little edge with online chat for support and such, then accents aren't part of the picture, and I have a written copy of what transpired. Very good.

I would have stayed with D* if it hadn't been for the crappy HR21, and have considered going back if the deal was right and I knew I was only getting HR24s. So far, they haven't offered a deal worth considering.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Of course, with Dish, you have no choice.
> 
> :lol:


That's why we have 2 successful satellite services to feed the various programming wants/needs, you know.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> What does Dish have that DirecTV doesn't have?
> 
> Hmmm...pending lawsuits for blatant patent infringement, the impending removing of DVR's from customers homes, HD-Lite, multiple dish requirements, a habit of launching new channels on satellites many customers are unable to pick up before upgrading their equipment, a history of channel disputes, and a distant second place reputation.


the impending removing of DVR's from customers homes?

BS


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

domingos35 said:


> the impending removing of DVR's from customers homes?
> 
> BS


You just read Hoosier's standard BS, he's quite consistent and on rare occasions, right. Of course, the rant about removing DVRs isn't one of the right ones...


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Hoosier25 can always be depended on to make the point that doesn't matter in real world useage though!!


...and the Dish folks can always be depended upon to justify their payments to a provider offering sub-par picture quality. 

If you want HD-Lite, if you want to risk losing your DVR's entirely, if you want to continually lose channels due to disputes, if you want to hassle with upgrading your dish *after* the launch of new channels, if you want macroblocking...Dish Network is the provider for you! :lol:


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

domingos35 said:


> the impending removing of DVR's from customers homes?
> 
> BS


That's right. Dish Network still has not managed to make the necessary changes.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

_"Dish used to be cheaper...don't know now after some of their new fees"_

Over the 16 years I've been with D* I've probably checked out DISH a half-dozen times. The only teaser being price.

But, whenever I walked into the storefront of their biggest local installer - that year - I not only never found anyone who impressed me as competent, the opposite impression was the norm.

That might just be so in my neck of the prairie...


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> ...and the Dish folks can always be depended upon to justify their payments to a provider offering sub-par picture quality.


Having had both, the picture quality really isn't noticeably different.



Hoosier205 said:


> if you want to continually lose channels due to disputes, if you want to hassle with upgrading your dish *after* the launch of new channels, if you want macroblocking...Dish Network is the provider for you! :lol:


Channel disputes happen with all providers; the dispute with Versus kept me from switching to DirecTV earlier.

The dish configuration change for new HD only affected a fraction of the HD customer base. Almost every new sub since 2007-ish should have received either a 1000.2 or 1000.4 dish that pulls in a pure Western or Eastern arc, and those folks got the channels without issues.

There are definitely areas where DirecTV exceeds Dish like MRV and full-time HD RSNs, it just seems out of place to point out trivial details that only affect a handful of subscribers as being disadvantages to the service. This is like making the argument that Dish didn't just have all their DVRs lock up a couple weeks ago due to a guide glitch, so clearly Dish is better. See how ridiculous that sounds?



Hoosier205 said:


> That's right. Dish Network still has not managed to make the necessary changes.


But the patent office ruled that the patent in question was invalid anyway. The infringement trial isn't over yet, but this is one of the final nails in the coffin: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/06/11/1221914/patent-office-rules-against-tivo.html


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

prushing said:


> Dish can send the send the 2nd tuner to another TV.
> 
> This is a big deal for the non-technical people, they don't see the benefits of having a 2nd HD receiver or HDDVR.


I was at a friends house who has Dish in HD. They have 2 HD tvs. But only 1 HD DVR. So one tv looks great the other looks like crap!


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Santana said:


> I was a long time cable customer before switching to satellite. Unfortunately, I went with DISH because they offered the better deal. Or so I thought. You definitely get what you pay for. I was plagued with spotty reception, and dealing with customer service was a miserable ordeal. I finally broke my contract and went back to cable because I was so fed up. No matter what the deal offered, I will never go back to DISH.
> 
> I was reluctant to lock myself into another contract with another satellite company, but* DIRECTV offered such a better HDTV lineup than my cable company* that I finally gave them a try. I am so glad I switched. The PQ has been excellent, service has been perfect, and customer service has always been helpful.


Tell me about it. My local "cable tv over phone line" offers HD for $17 for 30 channels! They even add a DVR for $36. RIP OFF!!


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## Lodi25 (Jun 23, 2009)

AMC HD!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lodi25 said:


> AMC HD!


Neither Dish or Directv has AMC HD.


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## gitarzan (Dec 31, 2005)

Fast guide, no audio dropouts as far as I know, picture in picture, picture out of picture (I really miss that feature)


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

espaeth said:


> Go to Dish Builder and try to order a system and package without locals:
> 
> https://www.dishtv.com/mydish.jsp
> 
> I can't speak to local advertisements, though I've seen those come from local retailers who are using vastly outdated marketing materials. A couple months ago I got a newpaper box ad that still showed Dish with the Voom channels, which is clearly incorrect.


You may indeed be right about new customers no longer being able to order ATXXX packages without locals. As best I can determine, this policy became effective June 3, 2010, when Dish announced that as of that date they would carry local stations in every market, and effectively eliminate the separate with/without locals pricing structure.

In essence, for example, the $19.99 promotional/$34.99 regular AT120 package w/o locals that was advertised is no longer available; it would now be $24.99 promotional/$39.99 regular, and would include locals for everybody.

I have some friends here in town who signed up for Dish a couple of years back, but opted out of the local channels for a $5 monthly savings. They still don't have local channels with their AT200 package (and really don't want them), so existing customers apparently have to opt in to get them.

It would be interesting to see if a new customer could successfully opt out of subscribing to locals with Dish upon request. Some people claim DirecTV's "discontinued" Select package is available to anyone who requests it.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

What does E* have?

The one thing I was waiting for as a seperate service!

XStreamHD™ Signs Long-Term Satellite Service Agreement With EchoStar Satellite Services to Support Its Groundbreaking High Definition (HD) Entertainment Service

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...nition-hd-entertainment-service-97386704.html

Not a good thing for DirecTV, that's for sure :nono2:


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

bigbrother52 said:


> What does E* have?
> 
> Not a good thing for DirecTV, that's for sure :nono2:


Most folks refer to E* as "Dish Network" -- a few months back the company was split into Dish Network for TV and Echostar who handles the satellite fleet, receivers, etc.

This agreement is simply XstreamHD (a company with no relation to Dish) leasing transponder space on AMC-16, a satellite that has absolutely nothing to do with the Dish Network TV service.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

espaeth said:


> This agreement is simply XstreamHD (a company with no relation to Dish) leasing transponder space on AMC-16, a satellite that has absolutely nothing to do with the Dish Network TV service.


I hope that is true but...

If XstreameHD makes an agreement to sell it's services to either Dish or DirecTV in the future, it's more likely then not IMO that Dish would be the more suitable partner. I hope not but!


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

bigbrother52 said:


> I hope that is true but...
> 
> If XstreameHD makes an agreement to sell it's services to either Dish or DirecTV in the future, it's more likely then not IMO that Dish would be the more suitable partner. I hope not but!


No, XstreamHD is looking to be a competitor, ala Voom.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

Newshawk said:


> No, XstreamHD is looking to be a competitor, ala Voom.


I understand what they are looking to be. As I said in an earlier post, I was looking forward to getting them as a seperate service.

Where is VOOM exactly these days? Mostly rebranded as Echostar!


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## jerrylove56 (Jun 15, 2008)

gitarzan said:


> Fast guide, no audio dropouts as far as I know, picture in picture, picture out of picture (I really miss that feature)


Same here.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

bigbrother52 said:


> I understand what they are looking to be. As I said in an earlier post, I was looking forward to getting them as a seperate service.


What we're trying to tell you is it _is_ a separate service, they are just leasing cheap unused capacity that Echostar holds on AMC-16. That satellite is at 85W longitude -- even if you're already a Dish subscriber and want to get XStreamHD you have to put up another dish because 85W isn't an orbital slot used by Dish Network.



bigbrother52 said:


> Where is VOOM exactly these days? Mostly rebranded as Echostar!


Voom is a product of Rainbow Media, and has since been reduced to only a couple channels carried by systems outside of the US. (ie, Oasis is carried on Shaw cable and satellite networks in Canada) After they were dropped by Dish they were only carried on CableVision for a couple months.

Interestingly enough the rift that resulted when Dish dropped the Voom channels is what allowed DirecTV to get MSG and MSG+ in HD. Rainbow Media is owned by CableVision, and the MSG networks were owned by CableVision (they're split from CV now, but the Dolan family still owns a controlling interest). After the Voom channels were dropped from Dish network service, to try and force Dish to carry the channels again CableVision granted access to MSG and MSG+ HD to DirecTV and told Dish they couldn't get access unless the Voom channels were reinstated. The idea is that the NY DMA represents a huge subscriber demographic, and having the regional sports network in HD presented a huge competitive advantage. Dish never added the Voom channels back, the service basically folded, and Dish is still blocked from getting MSG in HD.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Directv with a new sat is catching up to DISH with their national HD offerings, however DISH still offers BBCAMERICA, CENTRIC, DIY, E!, EPIX, EPIX2, FASHIONTV, G4, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY, HISTORY iNTERNATIONAL, HEADLINE NEWS, INDIE MOVIES, LIFETIME MOVIE NETWORK, MAV TV, NATGEO WILD, RETRO MOVIES, SHORTS MOVIES, STYLE, TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES, TRUTV, and a couple of others that Directv still does not. Directv offers ESPNU, MLB and SMITHSONIAN that DISH does not. 

Directv also offers most of the regional sports networks in full-time HD, while DISH does not. 

Price wise the primary channel line-ups run about $80+ for both services. Add equipment charges, dvr fees, premium movie packages, sports packages (Directv) to the $80. Most prefer the DISH receivers. At present I have both services. HD picture quality is the same. SD channels vary...one channel is clearer on DISH, another SD channel is clearer on Directv.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

espaeth said:


> What we're trying to tell you is it _is_ a separate service,
> 
> Voom is a product of Rainbow Media, and has since been reduced to only a couple channels carried by systems outside of the US.


Dude, I got it really I do.

For the third time in this thread I'll repeat, I'm looking forward to getting this thing as a SEPERATE SERVICE!!

What part of this do you think I'm not understanding.
Got it, I put up the new dish that ExtreameHD still doesn't have anybody to make for them yet but it will almost for sure look exactly like a Dish dish to point at an Echostar sat., and VOOM, the satellite, was renamed EchoStar 12.

If, and I said before IF XtreameHD sells their services and I did say in the FUTURE, it was IMO that Dish would make the more suitable partner. 
If that is not your opinion of a future possability, then that is your opinion and you are entitled to that.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I was hoping sat would be less expensive than cable. It may be, but not by much. The D* with free HD DVR is $63.99 after the first 12 months, plus $7/mon for DVR service, plus $6/mon for a service plan. That’s $77/mon and I still need an antenna for the locals that they don’t have. That’s about $15/month cheaper than cable, but also fewer channels.

I’m not knocking D* and certainly have no love for Comcast as I’m on my fifth DVR in less than a year. I was just hoping there would be a bigger savings.

This makes me consider E* which is cheaper, but fewer channels yet. I guess I’m getting cheap, but spending $1000 a year to watch TV seems crazy, even though I’ve been doing it for years. Decisions, decisions.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Mike109 said:


> I was hoping sat would be less expensive than cable. It may be, but not by much. The D* with free HD DVR is $63.99 after the first 12 months, plus $7/mon for DVR service, plus $6/mon for a service plan. That's $77/mon and I still need an antenna for the locals that they don't have. That's about $15/month cheaper than cable, but also fewer channels.
> 
> I'm not knocking D* and certainly have no love for Comcast as I'm on my fifth DVR in less than a year. I was just hoping there would be a bigger savings.
> 
> This makes me consider E* which is cheaper, but fewer channels yet. I guess I'm getting cheap, but spending $1000 a year to watch TV seems crazy, even though I've been doing it for years. Decisions, decisions.


If you buy cheap you'll get what you pay for, cheap. I've been with DirecTV since 1995. Back then they provided better equipment and service and still do today. A friend of mine recently went with DISH with their version of "horns and whistles" and asked me what I thought. I told him it would make a nice segment on "Antique Road Show"!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have a feeling that come a year from when they actually launch service, if not sooner, ExtreameHD will not be in business.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

RAD said:


> I have a feeling that come a year from when they actually launch service, if not sooner, ExtreameHD will not be in business.


That's what I was thinking. If VOOM as an HD only service couldn't make it as a concept what really makes ExtreameHD think they can up against the big two DBS providers?

Is this promise of a "Pre-Fetched Entertainment" ("PFE") transport technology, 1080P (I assume at 24 Hz frame rate) native programming, three OTA ATSC tuners, and home media Server network topology really going to make a difference to prevent them from threading the same path to eventual desolation VOOM did?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

bigbrother52 said:


> ...
> For the third time in this thread I'll repeat, I'm looking forward to getting this thing as a SEPERATE SERVICE!!
> 
> ...


XStreamHD is PPV movies, big deal. Netflix is still way cheaper. XStreamHD will fail.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> XStreamHD is PPV movies, big deal. Netflix is still way cheaper. XStreamHD will fail.


If PPV were not such a big deal everyone would not be offering some type of service to cater to that market.

Sure they may fail, every other venture of this type has failed before so it won't surprise anyone if that should happen.

Currently there are many unknowns concerning this particular service, the least of which may be if what they broadcast is of a higher quality then is available on disk. There seem to be some who believe this to be the case. 
The possability of this one thing alone is enough cause for some folks to want this service, or at the very least, willing to give it a try.

This may or may not describe what you are looking for. When the cost of the rental is of primary concern, Netflix may very well continue to be the way to go. 
There is simply no way to know if this service is worthwhile or not since so little information is actually available at this point, with no one having had any first hand experience with the product.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

A blurry picture quality.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> A blurry picture quality.


From another online source

"With XStreamHD the consumer will be able to see the movie in the exact specifications that the studio shot the particular movie in, so that will vary by title".

So, I think it's still open to interpretation whether or not at least some of their content will be provided in "better then blu-ray" quality.

None-the-less, I think this thread has drifted well beyond my first rather simple statement here and any further discussion on what XStream may or may not turn out to be is probably better suited for the XStream forum.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

bigbrother52 said:


> From another online source
> 
> "With XStreamHD the consumer will be able to see the movie in the exact specifications that the studio shot the particular movie in, so that will vary by title".
> 
> ...


I was responding to like, u know, "the actual thread title".


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> I was responding to like, u know, "the actual thread title".


I though it was all about me :lol:

You posted a couple of words that could have been a response to just about anything. I never would have related it to the actual topic


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## jikhead (Jun 22, 2010)

I just switched to E* from D* yesterday. Several factors played into this but it ultimately came down to D* not wanting to save me as a valued customer. I think the rep last night (and the one last week) was a little shocked that I was cancelling; but I guess that shows that they weren't taking me serious about me shopping around for new service. I wasn't looking to switch at first, but when I called about getting a new DVR and asked for promos and didn't get offered anything, I decided to give E* a look. I was impressed with the guide speeds I was seeing compared to my D* receiver, and I would say the VIP922 is currently tops right now. This has plagued my D* receiver for the past year and have recently since 10' have issues with the remote channel signals lagging causing the wrong channel to be selected. I'm not sure why everyone is saying the HD quality is different. I went to the most reputable local dealer and asked them about compression and they disagreed with me on the subject. In the store, the two top receivers of both were running on the same model Pioneer plasma screens and I couldn't notice a difference in the HD quality; nor have I noticed any difference between the two on my Samsung. As for total HD channels, I think it's really a toss-up between the two: you get some here and lose some here for both providers. It just depends on which channels you want.

I will gladly comeback to D* if something better 'for me' comes available.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

jikhead said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is saying the HD quality is different. I went to the most reputable local dealer and asked them about compression and they disagreed with me on the subject. In the store, the two top receivers of both were running on the same model Pioneer plasma screens and I couldn't notice a difference in the HD quality; nor have I noticed any difference between the two on my Samsung.


The (HD-Lite on Dish) vs (HD on DirecTV) argument is similar to the (WAV vs MP3) or (FLAC vs MP3) debate.

MP3 is a lossy compression method, and yet most people can't tell the difference with songs compressed with a good VBR / 256bit+ MP3 codec when compared to CD/WAV quality at a much larger file size.

Specs are important, but they don't always tell the whole story.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

E* dropping HD channels.
D* adding HD channels.

What else do you need to know. The choice is obvious.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

espaeth said:


> The (HD-Lite on Dish) vs (HD on DirecTV) argument is similar to the (WAV vs MP3) or (FLAC vs MP3) debate.
> 
> MP3 is a lossy compression method, and yet most people can't tell the difference with songs compressed with a good VBR / 256bit+ MP3 codec when compared to CD/WAV quality at a much larger file size.
> 
> Specs are important, but they don't always tell the whole story.


HD-Lite vs HD is the same as crap vs not crap.

The fact remains that Dish Network does not offer a single 1080i channel in its full resolution. You cannot alter both the resolution and the bitrate and expect positive results. Dish Network HD does not measure up. Most people agree and it is one of the many reasons why Dish recently even had trouble giving away their service for free. If you don't understand facts...you are beyond any assistance we can offer you here. If the performance of your display(s) and/or your physically ability to notice the differences in picture quality fail you, congratulations on being a loyal and satisfied Dish Network customer. Dish Network has obviously cornered the market on folks who prefer quantity over quality.

Uncompressed and/or Lossless is actually better than lossy by the way.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> E* dropping HD channels.
> D* adding HD channels.
> 
> What else do you need to know. The choice is obvious.


Yet D* has still not gotten up with what E* is offering in HD in the way of national channels.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Yet D* has still not gotten up with what E* is offering in HD in the way of national channels.


Yet Dish has still not gotten up with what Directv is offering in HD in the way of sports channels. Each provider has something the other doesn't.


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## Tulsacoker (Jun 1, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> Yet D* has still not gotten up with what E* is offering in HD in the way of national channels.


Full time HD channel... Yes they have


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network HD does not measure up. Most people agree and it is one of the many reasons why Dish recently even had trouble giving away their service for free.


There are a number of reasons that Dish network is having trouble signing new subs, but HD quality is not one of them. Most likely the biggest deterrents to Dish Network are their ridiculous multi-receiver fees, the lack of sports packages like MLB:EI and NFL:ST, and their inability to broadcast the full schedule of HD games on the RSNs.



Hoosier205 said:


> Uncompressed and/or Lossless is actually better than lossy by the way.


Tell that to all the folks who participated in the various double-blind listening tests and were unable to distinguish the difference. I'm not arguing that uncompressed isn't better, I'm arguing that that overwhelming majority of people are unable to discern enough of a difference to care.

If you're one of the folks that are hyper-sensitive to that sort of thing, my condolences to the great dissatisfaction you must face with life on a constant basis.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

espaeth said:


> There are a number of reasons that Dish network is having trouble signing new subs, but HD quality is not one of them.


Prove it.

You like HD-lite. You enjoy paying monthly for subpar picture quality. We get it. Troll on back over to the Dish Network threads and enjoy the rest of the day.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

I like how you assume I'm not a DirecTV customer; an assumption that is incidentally not correct.

I just don't feel the need to felicitate DirecTV over trivial "advantages" that the average sub simply doesn't care about.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

espaeth said:


> I like how you assume I'm not a DirecTV customer; an assumption that is incidentally not correct.
> 
> I just don't feel the need to felicitate DirecTV over trivial "advantages" that the average sub simply doesn't care about.


Picture quality is "trivial" when paying for HD service from a provider? Got it! :lol:


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Picture quality is "trivial" when paying for HD service from a provider? Got it! :lol:


If it were an obvious difference, it would be important. But it's not. There are a number of other reasons that DirecTV is a better service than Dish, to focus on "HD-Lite" is missing the point.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Tulsacoker said:


> Full time HD channel... Yes they have


Uh, no they haven't. A number of channels available nationwide (non-sports) are available on E* that aren't on D*.

BBCA for one, the Epix, RetroPlex and Indie channels also. And a few more.

D* still has the edge in sports, especially if you are willing to pay for the sports add on packages.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Picture quality is "trivial" when paying for HD service from a provider? Got it! :lol:


The reason you don't see ads from D* touting better HD PQ is because to almost everyone except those with big magnifying glasses up close, you can't tell the difference between the two services HD.

Reading spec sheets can be fun, but when it comes to HD PQ, the eyes tell the story that actually matters.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> The reason you don't see ads from D* touting better HD PQ is because to almost everyone except those with big magnifying glasses up close, you can't tell the difference between the two services HD.
> 
> Reading spec sheets can be fun, but when it comes to HD PQ, the eyes tell the story that actually matters.


We get it. Just because *you* can't see the obvious differences...it isn't important. Ignorance is bliss. Go back and troll your own threads.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> HD-Lite vs HD is the same as crap vs not crap.
> 
> The fact remains that Dish Network does not offer a single 1080i channel in its full resolution. You cannot alter both the resolution and the bitrate and expect positive results. Dish Network HD does not measure up. Most people agree and it is one of the many reasons why Dish recently even had trouble giving away their service for free. If you don't understand facts...you are beyond any assistance we can offer you here. If the performance of your display(s) and/or your physically ability to notice the differences in picture quality fail you, congratulations on being a loyal and satisfied Dish Network customer. Dish Network has obviously cornered the market on folks who prefer quantity over quality.
> 
> Uncompressed and/or Lossless is actually better than lossy by the way.


How many years did you pay DirecTV for their HD-Lite?

Did you defend Dish Network with such passion when they had 'Real' HD and DirecTV didn't?

DirecTV still screws with the bandwidth by multiplexing and there have been problems with their encoders for years now. Lots of troubles.

Just saying if you are going to beat up on Dish Network for their 'Quality' then let's not ignore DirecTV's quality problems.

Both providers have their advantages and disadvantages.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> We get it. Just because *you* can't see the obvious differences...it isn't important. Ignorance is bliss. Go back and troll your own threads.


Thank you for your invitation to out of this discussion. But then, you'd have to quit coming to the Dish discussions with your signature admitted, trolling...


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## Tulsacoker (Jun 1, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> Uh, no they haven't. A number of channels available nationwide (non-sports) are available on E* that aren't on D*.
> 
> BBCA for one, the Epix, RetroPlex and Indie channels also. And a few more.
> 
> D* still has the edge in sports, especially if you are willing to pay for the sports add on packages.


There's also a number of national channels on D* not on E* i.e. Disney, Disney XD, ABC Family, Smithsonian


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Tulsacoker said:


> There's also a number of national channels on D* not on E* i.e. Disney, Disney XD, ABC Family, Smithsonian


You are correct. Interestingly, there is really very little complaining about the Disney stuff not being in HD since the latest Charlie flailing excercise. Maybe because the kids don't care or the HD quality wasn't all that good from Disney to begin with. I think it is both. And ESPN News isn't in HD either, but after you get the scores, who cares? 

I liked the Smithsonian channel, but I'll take the 3 full time movies channels over yet another real life type channel any day. That's just personal opinion of course.


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> the eyes tell the story that actually matters.


This is true but quite often people do not realize exactly what their looking for, or they simply are not looking for or at the right things.

Once they are made aware of certain aspects that make up picture quality, they may no longer be able to watch that picture and not notice it.

It's just the way the mind works. I know I have personally ruined a few peoples perfectly happy viewing experiance by pointing out things they are no longer capable of ignoring.
These things may be inherent in their TV, or in the broadcast itself.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

bigbrother52 said:


> This is true but quite often people do not realize exactly what their looking for, or they simply are not looking for or at the right things.
> 
> Once they are made aware of certain aspects that make up picture quality, they may no longer be able to watch that picture and not notice it.
> 
> ...


I don't want you coming to my house! 

I'm more interested in the content of what I'm viewing, story line, acting and such, than I am interested in the latest 'gee whiz' video. And I'd bet I'm in the majority by a huge margin.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> I don't want you coming to my house!
> 
> I'm more interested in the content of what I'm viewing, story line, acting and such, than I am interested in the latest 'gee whiz' video. And *I'd bet I'm in the majority by a huge margin.*


Hard to say. I've known a number of people who get shown HD who had thought they were just content people. But they sight of HD and they realize the picture and sound are important to the whole enjoyment.

That said, I do agree that most people with their current setups won't really see a different between DIRECTV and DISH unless side by side. And probably not even then unless they are looking a bigger screens. (I won't call them "big screens--that, to me, is at least 104") 

Cheers,
Tom


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## bigbrother52 (Jan 20, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> I don't want you coming to my house!
> 
> .


Yeah I get alot of that.

It used to be from my friends parents, now it is from their wifes


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## mlcarson (Jul 4, 2003)

The same can also be true of E*. D* offers HD locals in the Traverse City, MI DMA but E* only has the SD locals. So, D* has the better local offering.



de_runner said:


> There are a number of markets that D* does NOT offer locals in HD, yet E* does. I live in one of them. D* has no plan to provide locals in HD here (Bakersfield) as evidenced by the list of those scheduled thru 2011. Bakersfield is NOT on the list.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

BKC said:


> Dish has pretty good audio.....


And I bet you can HEAR it without cranking the volume on the TV all the way up like you have to do when watching DirecTV SD the past 2 weeks.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Mike109 said:


> A service plan seems strange to me. Paying a $6/mon service fee to someone to fix their own property does not seem right. But I guess the providers get their money one way or the other. With Dish it appears there is also a $15 charge if someone comes out to the house. Without a plan it is $95. I'm certainly not sticking up for Comcast, but there has never been a charge when they've come to the house for anything. If there was I would be broke!


Actually, you don't really need the "protection" (service) plan with DirecTV to get one of the leased receivers replaced. If a leased DirecTV receiver fails, you just call in and they ship you a replacement for a $20 S & H charge. This includes the cost of shipping the broken unit back to DirecTV. If the replacement fails within 90 days, you get it replaced for free. That's really pretty fair in my opinion since it obviously costs DirecTV a lot more than $20 for this service.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

ThomasM said:


> Actually, you don't really need the "protection" (service) plan with DirecTV to get one of the leased receivers replaced. If a leased DirecTV receiver fails, you just call in and they ship you a replacement for a $20 S & H charge. This includes the cost of shipping the broken unit back to DirecTV. If the replacement fails within 90 days, you get it replaced for free. That's really pretty fair in my opinion since it obviously costs DirecTV a lot more than $20 for this service.


Just for comparison sake with Comcast, and again I'm not sticking up for them. But tech's have come to my house, changed F-connectors, taken signal strength readings, etc and never cost me a dime. They have swapped DVRs 4 times in less than a year and replaced a broken underground coax. These have all been for separate problems. They have been out at least half a dozen times in about 10 months at no charge to me.

Hopefully DirecTV has more reliable DVRs. But does a tech come out to determine if it is a bad DVR or some other problem? If so, don't they have replacement DVRs with them? If it is a bad connector or coax does the customer get charged for fixing that?


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## Tulsacoker (Jun 1, 2010)

Typically Mike D* can diagnose the problem over the phone. If they determine it's the DVR they will fedex one to you. If they determine it's the wiring or dish they will send a tech out (for a service fee). I have never had a tech out because of wiring or dish problems.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

levibluewa said:


> Directv with a new sat is catching up to DISH with their national HD offerings, however DISH still offers BBCAMERICA, CENTRIC, DIY, E!, EPIX, EPIX2, FASHIONTV, G4, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY, HISTORY iNTERNATIONAL, HEADLINE NEWS, INDIE MOVIES, LIFETIME MOVIE NETWORK, MAV TV, NATGEO WILD, RETRO MOVIES, SHORTS MOVIES, STYLE, TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES, TRUTV, and a couple of others that Directv still does not. Directv offers ESPNU, MLB and SMITHSONIAN that DISH does not.
> 
> Directv also offers most of the regional sports networks in full-time HD, while DISH does not.
> 
> Price wise the primary channel line-ups run about $80+ for both services. Add equipment charges, dvr fees, premium movie packages, sports packages (Directv) to the $80. Most prefer the DISH receivers. At present I have both services. HD picture quality is the same. SD channels vary...one channel is clearer on DISH, another SD channel is clearer on Directv.


Guess we can add COOKINGHD to the list.


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