# Satellite in condos



## necigrad (Apr 13, 2009)

I live in a condo association in Las Vegas where our CC&Rs prohibit satellite dishes. I believe the Board will enact a policy permitting them, probably on the grounds that they can't always be prohibited, to get around the CC&R restriction. We will also be undergoing a major reconstruction process. This process will include removing much of the stucco of the buildings (2 story 8 and 12 plexes built in 1991). Part of the reconstruction will (I'm hoping and am rather confident) include conduit from the cable box area (Cox Communications) to the roof, as well as a dish area in the center of the building on a firewall. This SHOULD (I think) enable anyone to have a dish regardless of orientation without needing to penetrate a common wall. I should note that the CC&R "change" and the reconstruction opportunity will go hand in hand; the CC&Rs will only change if the conduit is installed, and it's likely that the conduit from the roof will only terminate at one location, and not to each unit. Without the conduit there probably won't be a CC&R change, and thus this exercise will become pointless were that to happen.

The units have 3 (some may have 4, not certain) cable jacks. I have checked mine and none of them appear to be a master, so I am assuming that each jack has a line run to the box.

The only high speed internet available at this time is cable from Cox (unknown if some type of wireless broadband will be permitted in the future). DSL service is not available. In my discussions with the phone company (then Sprint, now Embarq) I was told that because it was an apartment complex (or actually originally built as such) the Association is responsible for adding the needed equipment. We have our contractor looking into what's needed, but there are no guarantees that DSL will be possible.

Here's my fantasy. I want every unit to have the option of satellite including HD and DVR at each jack without the owner needing to penetrate a common wall. The installation must not interfere with the cable modem, however a diplexer (in my opinion) is acceptable for a workaround if needed.

I know that specifics are probably needed as to the wiring in place now, but I will not have that until the stucco comes off. Once the stucco is off it will be going back on in short order, so there won't be any time to come up with a plan on the fly and get it approved. Once we open up one building we should know how the other buildings would be setup (so says logic, and logic is only occasional with these buildings) and could develop a plan for the remaining buildings.

I guess what I'm looking for is comments on if I'm nuts, and if not what I need to make this happen. I want all the residents to have as many options possible at as small a cost as I can. I do not think I can swing running all new coax to every jack (unless the coax in place is deteriorating) so I'm likely limited to what's already going from the box to the units other then maybe diplexers. The wiring to the roof I can get without a problem, but it will likely need to terminate at one location for each building of 8 or 12 units, with a potential 3-4 jacks per unit.

Hopefully this all makes sense, if not feel free to ask for clarifications. Not having satellite is a pet peeve of mine, and since I may have found a way to make it work, I want to take advantage of the situation and provide the best options practical.

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

:welcome_s to DBSTalk!


necigrad said:


> I live in a condo association in Las Vegas where our CC&Rs prohibit satellite dishes.


Blanket prohibitions are illegal, regardless of whether the CC&Rs are still in place or a policy exception has been implemented. Restrictions on placement are allowed, and typically exclude "common areas" like the roof and going beyond the edges of your unit's patio/balcony.

See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

A decidedly long-winded oration and I'm still left wondering what you're question is.

If I had to guess, I'd say that what you're trying to do is not as trivial as you think it is and it may severely mess with your neighbors. You would need to know with great certainty that your condo feed comes directly from the facilities closet and isn't shared by your neighbors (this is often not the case with a cable TV based installation).

The rules don't allow for dishes on common areas so the roof is not a good campaign plan.

Cox and satellite don't mix. You'll need a low-pass filter at least and to understand that the two services might not be able to coexist. DOCSIS supports frequencies well above the diplexer split IIRC; Cox may or may not use them.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

First, let me say that installing a central satellite system is definitely a good idea, but I will warn you that even though it is a good idea, you need to be prepared for some resistance in a few areas. Hopefully you can overcome them.

First, let's look at DirecTV. It is possible, with 5 lines running to the central closet and two 30" dishes (the second dish would be for International programming), to provide everything that DirecTV offers. If you don't need/want/choose International, you would just need a single dish and 4 lines. Furthermore, by installing several SWM8 modules in each closet, you could provide 4 HD tuners per apartment (2 apartments per SWM module) with very little restrictions on cabling. Expect to pay roughly $150 per SWM module, and if you are feeding more than 3-4 per building (unlikely, IMO), you may need an amplifier. The SWM modules DO need power, so hopefully there's a power outlet in the closet. They can be powered from inside the apartments, but then you'd need to be a lot more involved, as one person unplugging the power inserter will bring down 2 apartments, their own and another. And you don't want people moving out and taking the PI with them. Since these are condos, you probably have much lower turnover anyway, but still, the less management hassle, the better.

For Dish, you can provide everything from a single 30" dish (Dish 1000+) and 4 lines. You will need several DPP44 switches, each of which can feed 4 receivers (single or dual-tuner). These require home-run lines, so if in fact the lines from the closet to the individual units ARE split at some point, you'd be limited to however many home-runs there are per condo. Again, the DPP44 can feed both tuners of a dual-tuner receiver from a single line. DPP44 switches typically retail about $200, though you might find some cheaper. They also need a power inserter for each.

So, you're looking at 8-9 lines from the roof to the closet on each building. It's likely, but not positive, that you could diplex a cable modem on either system, but as always, it would be best if they are on a separate line, so hopefully the units are actually home-ran for every outlet.

Figure that only 50-75% of the tenants/owners will go to satellite, and probably more of them with DirecTV, and you'll probably be able to start with 2-3 SWM modules and 1 or 2 DPP44 switches per building. I would do that, but budget for a few additionals which would get installed as needed.

The hassle in these systems isn't the installation, but service calls and such. Understand that neither DirecTV nor Dish are going to be willing to touch these systems, so you will probably need to work with a local retailer for installation and any ongoing service plan. Expect to pay for everything, as the condos will likely not be able to steer system sales to the retailer effectively, so he'll have no way to recover any money, but that's something you need to work out.

Also, you'll need to put together a plan for people who want more tuners/receivers. With DirecTV, it would be easy, from an installation point of view, to dedicate all 8 tuners of a SWM to a single apartment, but you'd to be able to recover the costs to do that from the tenant. With Dish, you may be more limited if the wiring isn't homeran.

Good luck!


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## necigrad (Apr 13, 2009)

I've run into a unique opportunity of timing, which is why I'm asking the questions. The HOA is undergoing a largescale reconstruction. This reconstruction will involve removing much of the stucco, exposing a lot of the wiring. It has also provided funds that may be able to be invested (to some extent) on setting up for satellite. Several of the owners that attend Board meetings, including myself, want satellite. The current HOA Board is supportive of doing this. The trick is setting this up as best possible without intefering with what services exist currently.

The question(s) I'm really asking is what would need to be done to allow every unit the ability to have full satellite service at each jack (living room and each bedroom).

The issues are that this cannot interfere with the current cable service (cable is the only broadband currently available right now) and that we have no idea how the units are wired.

I'm guessing that the jacks are individually wired to the cable box. I'm also guessing that there is some way to split the coax after the cable box so that cable and satellite feeds go to one piece of coax.


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