# 811 - P282 Software Release Notes and Discussion



## Mark Lamutt

Straight from Dish, here are the release notes for 811 software version P282 which should begin spooling Thursday 11/18: 

Fix for receiver reboot when powering on the receiver connected to a new Dish LCD television
Zoom HD video output by 105% when DISH LCD display connected via DVI to correct certain underscan conditions
Fixes to reduce occurrences of Black Screen with the Browse Banner displayed
Fix to display correct system time when tuned to off-air channels
Fix to prevent channel tuning while EPG download is occurring
Additional EPG "Info Not Available" fixes
Fix for inconsistent Tone on Point Dish screen


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mark, wow your quick on the trigger... 

I was also told there were corrections for DD5.1 compatibility issues, I am not at home to view the release notes so I will ask you....did the DD5.1 corrections not make it into P282?

Jason


----------



## Mikey

Mark Lamutt said:


> Straight from Dish, here are the release notes for 811 software version P282 which should begin spooling Thursday 11/18:
> 
> Fix for receiver reboot when powering on the receiver connected to a new Dish LCD television
> Zoom HD video output by 105% when DISH LCD display connected via DVI to correct certain underscan conditions
> Fixes to reduce occurrences of Black Screen with the Browse Banner displayed
> Fix to display correct system time when tuned to off-air channels
> Fix to prevent channel tuning while EPG download is occurring
> Additional EPG "Info Not Available" fixes
> Fix for inconsistent Tone on Point Dish screen


  [*]Fixes to reduce occurrences of Black Screen with the Browse Banner displayed
 [*]Additional EPG "Info Not Available" fixes
 [*]Fix to display correct system time when tuned to off-air channels

Anyone want to start a pool on what new bugs this release will trigger?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

That's everything that I was sent, Jason, so I have no idea about the DD5.1 fix. But, I'm not nearly as in tune with all of the 811 issues as you are.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mark Lamutt said:


> That's everything that I was sent, Jason, so I have no idea about the DD5.1 fix. But, I'm not nearly as in tune with all of the 811 issues as you are.


OK, I will fire off an email and find out.


----------



## BFG

Wow, finally things are being fixed, hurray! This looks to good to be true, I sure hope I won't be making a list of what's broken.


----------



## Jaspear

I've been waiting for that "inconsistent tone" fix for months!


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mark Lamutt said:


> That's everything that I was sent, Jason, so I have no idea about the DD5.1 fix. But, I'm not nearly as in tune with all of the 811 issues as you are.


DD5.1 has been pushed back...I am told to expect it in the P284 version in January.

Jason


----------



## Jerry G

This doesn't appear to address the Black Screen of Death when switching from an OTA to sat channel. Why am I not surprised? Oh yea, because it's Dish, that's why.


----------



## the_bear

I wonder when they will add a native resolution mode? I hate having to switch from 1080i to 720p when going from HDNet to ESPN.


----------



## BFG

Jerry G said:


> This doesn't appear to address the Black Screen of Death when switching from an OTA to sat channel. Why am I not surprised? Oh yea, because it's Dish, that's why.


I'm pretty sure that's what this is:
Fixes to reduce occurrences of Black Screen with the Browse Banner displayed


----------



## BFG

the_bear said:


> I wonder when they will add a native resolution mode? I hate having to switch from 1080i to 720p when going from HDNet to ESPN.


That would be a good one, but I don't have high hopes of it being implemented.


----------



## Ron Barry

BFG said:


> I'm pretty sure that's what this is:
> Fixes to reduce occurrences of Black Screen with the Browse Banner displayed


Hope you picked up the wording "reduce occurences" this in engineering terminology means: They have partially fixed the bug, but there are still some cases they are aware of that the fix is either to risky or they are not sure how to fix it yet.

Also could mean they think they got it, but are not 100% sure.


----------



## BFG

Wow I did miss that when I was reading it. That's pretty sad, "reduce" sheesh....


----------



## Ron Barry

BFG said:


> Wow I did miss that when I was reading it. That's pretty sad, "reduce" sheesh....


Well I tend to look as the glass half full. For me it does not happen that much and I would welcome any reduction.


----------



## Jason Nipp

WeeJavaDude said:


> Hope you picked up the wording "reduce occurences" this in engineering terminology means: They have partially fixed the bug, but there are still some cases they are aware of that the fix is either to risky or they are not sure how to fix it yet.
> 
> Also could mean they think they got it, but are not 100% sure.


Trust me, I didn't miss that...

Lets just say..(cough cough)..."We look forward to the P283 release...") (end cough).


----------



## khearrean

Even though Gary has repeatedly told me it won't happen, being the optimist I am, I keep hoping I'll read one of these 811 Release Notes threads one day and see where Dish is planning to fix/improve the problem I have with poor PQ when viewing locals via analog cable. I'm just tired of having to use my VCR's tuner to pass a descent signal of my local channels and an OTA antenna is not an option based upon the development where I live.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

Ken I understand your comments fully...But I am going to play Devils Advocate so bear with me....Since ATSC transmission has been mandated, and NTSC is supposed to phase out....Do you think anyone in the industry has fixing analog quality on their priority list? I think Digital quality issues just kicked analog off the back burner....Just my Devil's Advocate opinion...feel free to bash this statement. 

Jason


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> Ken I understand your comments fully...But I am going to play Devils Advocate so bear with me....Since ATSC transmission has been mandated, and NTSC is supposed to phase out....Do you think anyone in the industry has fixing analog quality on their priority list? I think Digital quality issues just kicked analog off the back burner....Just my Devil's Advocate opinion...feel free to bash this statement.
> 
> Jason


I'm sure you are absolutely correct! I just hate the fact that Dish's advertisement of the 811 still says it's tuner does a superb job with not only HD, but SD as well via standard OTA analog signals. 
Having said that, I'm sure you're correct as to where their priority is and will remain. It's still a shame though because even though I may be in the minority, there have to be many others like myself who can't get locals via Dish (because they're not in our market) and also live in a prohibitive area where 50'+ antenna masts are not tolerated. And where I am located, it will take at least that to get reception of locals via OTA.

Ken


----------



## n0qcu

The 811 (at least all of mine do) does just fine on analog cable as long as you have sufficient signal strength.


----------



## lesmoss

In the past, I had needed to go through a "Check Switch" to "reconnect" after every download. Looks like they finally fixed that one. (I have a 2 dish setup - 61.5)


----------



## Guest

Cable 'analog' is NOT going anywhere, even after OTA NTSC is gone. Nothing in the mandate forces a cable company to stop utilizing regular analog channels. In fact, that is likely how they will deliver local digital channels to their non high def customers.

That being said, 811 analog conversion quality should still be a priority.

And as others have stated, I noticed a BIG improvement with this a few releases ago. It used to be I could see dots/jaggies where the CBS or ABC logos would appear. It also used to have a very, very slight strobe effect at times. But now it appears just as good as using my tvs own tuner. Weird.


----------



## Mike123abc

The download is really slow today, it must be a large update.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mike123abc said:


> The download is really slow today, it must be a large update.


Yes it is a large update...reports for update are between 20 and 40 minutes.


----------



## Jerry G

Only took me two minutes of changing channels with 282 before my 811 crashed and rebooted. Yup, 282 is a solid winner, just as expected from a company as solid as Dish and a leader as wonderful as Charlie "The Liar" Ergen.

And yes, I would leave Dish in an instant if there was a decent alternative, but there isn't. If Voom survives and gets a good HD PVR, then I'll leave.


----------



## dishking

I'm still getting about a 1-2 second delay with 5.1 coming out of the optical port. Any chance this update with fix it?


----------



## Jason Nipp

Jerry G said:


> Only took me two minutes of changing channels with 282 before my 811 crashed and rebooted. Yup, 282 is a solid winner, just as expected from a company as solid as Dish and a leader as wonderful as Charlie "The Liar" Ergen.
> 
> And yes, I would leave Dish in an instant if there was a decent alternative, but there isn't. If Voom survives and gets a good HD PVR, then I'll leave.


So much hostility....I think you said it best when you stated there's a lack of better alternatives...In which case would you be happier with the alternative? I have my doubts :nono2:


----------



## Jason Nipp

dishking said:


> I'm still getting about a 1-2 second delay with 5.1 coming out of the optical port. Any chance this update with fix it?


Not this month. Sorry.


----------



## BFG

Ahhh... I'm dredding the next update. If they're planning on fixing DD issues for bad receivers I can just see them screwing everyone else up... eek!!!!


----------



## Guest

I had an older reciever that had a problem with the optical dd5.1 being out of sync sometimes. Called dish and the fix was to turn of the receiver via front button, remove flash card, wait 1 min and reinsert card then turn receiver on.. Worked on my 4700 receiver. Not sure about the 811, never had that problem on the 811..

Hope that helps..


----------



## khearrean

n0qcu said:


> The 811 (at least all of mine do) does just fine on analog cable as long as you have sufficient signal strength.


You are extremely fortunate and the only one who has ever said, at least to me, that their 811's tuner did fine with analog cable. Mine displays a very grainy picture (BTW, I have never had signal strength less than 94). However once I bypass the 811 & go through my VCR's tuner instead, my locals' PQ is good. Go figure....

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

holycow said:


> I had an older reciever that had a problem with the optical dd5.1 being out of sync sometimes. Called dish and the fix was to turn of the receiver via front button, remove flash card, wait 1 min and reinsert card then turn receiver on.. Worked on my 4700 receiver. Not sure about the 811, never had that problem on the 811..
> 
> Hope that helps..


You can not do the E* pokey on the 811...It doesn't have an external smart card.

For the newbie that may now ask what the E* pokey is...look here.


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> You are extremely fortunate and the only one who has ever said, at least to me, that their 811's tuner did fine with analog cable. Mine displays a very grainy picture (BTW, I have never had signal strength less than 94). However once I bypass the 811 & go through my VCR's tuner instead, my locals' PQ is good. Go figure....
> 
> Ken


That's not true Ken....I also told you my analogs are fine...In fact you had me pull power to my signal amp and dist amp to see the impact...Remember?


----------



## khearrean

nippjas said:


> That's not true Ken....I also told you my analogs are fine...In fact you had me pull power to my signal amp and dist amp to see the impact...Remember?


Sorry, you are right, Jason...I forgot. But still many I have seen posted here & communicated with over the last several months that I have been a member have indicated problems with this tuner. Gary was one and there have been several others. Or at least that is what I've understood now for these several months. If this is not a widespread problem as I had the impression, then I should have (or could have) had this receiver replaced. In a way, I'd hate to think I could have corrected this problem from day one by simply asking Dish for a replacement....

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> Sorry, you are right, Jason...I forgot. But still many I have seen posted here & communicated with over the last several months that I have been a member have indicated problems with this tuner. Gary was one and there have been several others. Or at least that is what I've understood now for these several months. If this is not a widespread problem as I had the impression, then I should have (or could have) had this receiver replaced. In a way, I'd hate to think I could have corrected this problem from day one by simply asking Dish for a replacement....
> 
> Ken


You could try that route Ken....Don't get me wrong I'm not slamming you...I have said it a couple times before...The OTA equipment your using does play a bit of a role in this...Could the 811 have a stronger tuner...You'll get no argument from me making that comment....Do I feel I get satisfactory results with the 8VSB tuner....Absolutely...I didn't always have an 811...I've used the TV's tuner, My VCR's tuner, a Samsung SIR T-165 tuner,....I didn't feel like there was any major differences, maybe a bit cleaner PQ with the Sammy but then again it's a digital tuner, I only had 1 analog mapped and that was my Fox....The rest are all digitals....I unmapped the Fox analog cause I do get it LiL now....Though I really unmapped so I could bring LiL and OTA side by side in the EPG...In actuality my OTA analog Fox blows the Dish delivered LiL Fox out of the water as far as PQ. And again this is a matter of my opinion.

Jason


----------



## olgeezer

Checked the OTA, changed channels twice, second time was a channel up. Lock up. didn't have to do 10 second power hold, but system went through search sat download info, then switched to last sat channel viewed. recall went to preceeding sat channel.


----------



## Jason Nipp

olgeezer said:


> Checked the OTA, changed channels twice, second time was a channel up. Lock up. didn't have to do 10 second power hold, but system went through search sat download info, then switched to last sat channel viewed. recall went to preceeding sat channel.


olgeezer, please make note that it was intentially setup to lock channel selection control if the guide is refreshing.

Jason


----------



## Jerry G

olgeezer said:


> Checked the OTA, changed channels twice, second time was a channel up. Lock up. didn't have to do 10 second power hold, but system went through search sat download info, then switched to last sat channel viewed. recall went to preceeding sat channel.


That's exactly what happened to me with 282. Yup, it's a great update for the 811. I think my 811s and 921 are destined to end up in a trash heap.


----------



## Ron Barry

Jerry G said:


> That's exactly what happened to me with 282. Yup, it's a great update for the 811. I think my 811s and 921 are destined to end up in a trash heap.


Well I am sure you could easily sell them on Ebay before they hit the trash heap.. Hell I would be willing to pay the shipping and you can send them over to me.


----------



## Jerry G

WeeJavaDude said:


> Well I am sure you could easily sell them on Ebay before they hit the trash heap.. Hell I would be willing to pay the shipping and you can send them over to me.


Well, I would, but I have very special plans for these pieces of garbage. If I can get a news organization interested, there will be a little videotaped demonstration of just what I think of these mechanical defectives. Perhaps that will make Charlie pay attention--doubtful, but worth a try, and if it happens, certainly more effective than complaining to the CSR drones or calling in to the useless Charlie Chat.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Jerry G said:


> Well, I would, but I have very special plans for these pieces of garbage. If I can get a news organization interested, there will be a little videotaped demonstration of just what I think of these mechanical defectives. Perhaps that will make Charlie pay attention--doubtful, but worth a try, and if it happens, certainly more effective than complaining to the CSR drones or calling in to the useless Charlie Chat.


Like I said, so much hostility... :nono2: ...Why don't you try to make your money back by charging $20 with each shell and trigger pull of 12 gauge...If you can market your destructo promotion as good as you ***** about Chuck you may even make a hefty profit.


----------



## Ron Barry

Jerry G said:


> Well, I would, but I have very special plans for these pieces of garbage. If I can get a news organization interested, there will be a little videotaped demonstration of just what I think of these mechanical defectives. Perhaps that will make Charlie pay attention--doubtful, but worth a try, and if it happens, certainly more effective than complaining to the CSR drones or calling in to the useless Charlie Chat.


Well good luck. Maybe Bob H. could give you a hand in the demonstration.


----------



## lesmoss

Jerry G said:


> Well, I would, but I have very special plans for these pieces of garbage. If I can get a news organization interested, there will be a little videotaped demonstration of just what I think of these mechanical defectives. Perhaps that will make Charlie pay attention--doubtful, but worth a try, and if it happens, certainly more effective than complaining to the CSR drones or calling in to the useless Charlie Chat.


Go for it Jerry. A little bad PR would be good for Charlie. Maybe he doesn't know what's going on.

My one year commitment is up in December and I am looking forward to dumping Dish for Cable or D* - still trying to figure it out.


----------



## Jerry G

nippjas said:


> Like I said, so much hostility... :nono2: ...Why don't you try to make your money back by charging $20 with each shell and trigger pull of 12 gauge...If you can market your destructo promotion as good as you ***** about Chuck you may even make a hefty profit.


My interest is in HD. Your obviously isn't. Yea, I'm hostile. We've been jerked around by Charlie, with regard to HD, since 1999. I won't waste my time reiterating the details for you. But think about HD equipment that retains serious bugs almost a year after release. And your enamored by this? And if you want to idolize someone who boasts 50 HD channel capacity for two years and then shoves a bunch of BS down your throat with this "compelling content" nonsense and then adds TNT HD, which directly violates Charlie's own BS definition of "compelling content", then be my guest.


----------



## Jerry G

lesmoss said:


> Go for it Jerry. A little bad PR would be good for Charlie. Maybe he doesn't know what's going on.
> 
> My one year commitment is up in December and I am looking forward to dumping Dish for Cable or D* - still trying to figure it out.


I think Charlie knows. He owns the company and he's responsible.

If D* would add more HD and stop overcompressing HD, I'd consider a switch to D*. Adelphia serves my area and they have almost no HD right now, so they're out. I'm just hoping that Voom survives and comes out with an HD PVR. If so, that's where I'll go. So until a viable alternative comes around, I'll have to stay with Dish (I'm getting nauseated as I say that) and deal with their buggy equipment as best I can.


----------



## Jerry G

WeeJavaDude said:


> Well good luck. Maybe Bob H. could give you a hand in the demonstration.


For a long time, I couldn't understand how such a strong Dish supporter, Bob H., could have become so vehemently anti Dish. Now I can easily understand. Sometimes we want to maintain our faith and confidence in a person or company so much that we somehow manage to absorb a lot of crap without really believing it's happening. But finally the stink sinks in and reality becomes apparent.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Jerry G said:


> My interest is in HD. Your obviously isn't. Yea, I'm hostile. We've been jerked around by Charlie, with regard to HD, since 1999. I won't waste my time reiterating the details for you. But think about HD equipment that retains serious bugs almost a year after release. And your enamored by this? And if you want to idolize someone who boasts 50 HD channel capacity for two years and then shoves a bunch of BS down your throat with this "compelling content" nonsense and then adds TNT HD, which directly violates Charlie's own BS definition of "compelling content", then be my guest.


Jerry, please contain your frustration, If you really look back into my previous posts you will find me making fun of that "compelling content" **** statement Charlie made the day he made it...I have poked fun at him for this many times...I want more HD....I don't know anyone who has HD capabilities who doesn't...I have had the alternative providers...They are just as bad...read the posts on the beloved HD-Tivo unit....They are not all good posts... YES THE 811 has had it's share of problems...but I HAVE HAD WORSE. E* really does need software help and if you read my posts back far enough you'll see me stating this...And you will also see me getting bashed for WHINING ABOUT IT...So really if your that disgusted with it...Charge admission, sell the buck shot 12 Gauge rounds, get your video crew, and do it otherwise pick up the phone and call D*...They have so much more "Compelling content" available for you.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

Jerry G said:


> I think Charlie knows. He owns the company and he's responsible.
> 
> If D* would add more HD and stop overcompressing HD, I'd consider a switch to D*. Adelphia serves my area and they have almost no HD right now, so they're out. I'm just hoping that Voom survives and comes out with an HD PVR. If so, that's where I'll go. So until a viable alternative comes around, I'll have to stay with Dish (I'm getting nauseated as I say that) and deal with their buggy equipment as best I can.


Jerry, make up your mind is Dish better or worse than the alternatives...Sounds to me like you just endorsed Charlie because he has more to offer than the alternatives...


----------



## garypen

khearrean said:


> Sorry, you are right, Jason...I forgot. But still many I have seen posted here & communicated with over the last several months that I have been a member have indicated problems with this tuner. Gary was one and there have been several others.
> Ken


Yes. The analog tuner on my 811 produces a PQ that looks like crapola. I have read quite a few reports of the same thing from others on a number of dbs forums. The digital OTA tuner, OTOH, produces an excellent picture, when it locks into a signal. Unfortunately, it's ability to do that consistently seems to change with every new software update.


----------



## Jerry G

nippjas said:


> Jerry, make up your mind is Dish better or worse than the alternatives...Sounds to me like you just endorsed Charlie because he has more to offer than the alternatives...


It's very simple. You have to distinguish between all alternatives and alternatives available to me. From what I've read, there are cable companies that offer a good HD selection and an HD PVR. That would be my first choice, but those companies don't service my area. Voom would be good for programming, but they don't offer an HD PVR. Both Dish and DirecTV are in the "bad column" as is my cable company, Adelphia. So, given that I have the Dish equipment, they are the choice amongst the evils. It's not an endorsement, it's just that there is no where else to go for now. I'd much rather have DirecTV's Bravo HD (to become Universal HD) than TNT, but I certainly won't switch to DirecTV to get one HD channel and also what appears to be overcompression of their HD channels. The HD Tivo appears to be a much better STB than the 921. But again, not worth switching for given the other negatives about DirecTV.

With time, a much better alternative to Dish will appear. Then I'll switch.


----------



## Cholly

Got the update last night after shutting down my 811 for a few hours. When I turned it back on and checked SysInfo, it indicated I'd gotten 282. When I went thru my favorites list & went channel up from 9424 to 12-01 (my first OTA channel), I got the BSOD. When I recycled power, my 811 went thru the acquiring satellite proccess, then the guide info download, after which it reverted to 9424. Tried channel up again, same result.
I then went to setup and rescanned my local digitals and then reset them on my favorites list. Voila! No more problems. This morning, I checked things out by turning off my 811, and turning it on again, followed by surfing through all my favorites channels -- no problem.

On another note -- why would anyone even bother to use the 811 to tune their analog OTA channels if their TV has an NTSC tuner? I can understand using an STB if you're feeding a monitor or projector that has no tuner, but other than that, IMHO you are usually better served by using the tuner in your TV.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Jerry G said:


> It's very simple. You have to distinguish between all alternatives and alternatives available to me. From what I've read, there are cable companies that offer a good HD selection and an HD PVR. That would be my first choice, but those companies don't service my area. Voom would be good for programming, but they don't offer an HD PVR. Both Dish and DirecTV are in the "bad column" as is my cable company, Adelphia. So, given that I have the Dish equipment, they are the choice amongst the evils. It's not an endorsement, it's just that there is no where else to go for now. I'd much rather have DirecTV's Bravo HD (to become Universal HD) than TNT, but I certainly won't switch to DirecTV to get one HD channel and also what appears to be overcompression of their HD channels. The HD Tivo appears to be a much better STB than the 921. But again, not worth switching for given the other negatives about DirecTV.
> 
> With time, a much better alternative to Dish will appear. Then I'll switch.


Thanks for calming down Jerry...I will too. 

If your interested, I have the specs and links to all 3 interfeces(interactive demos) of the Motorola DVR most commonly used for cable...Adelphia, Comcast, Insight, Time Warner...etc....And since we both know who manufactures the Voom receivers one could venture a guess that Voom's box would be similar.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=32763 Look for posts #30 and up....gary and I discuss the DTC6400-DVR

Peace,
Jason


----------



## Nick

nippjas said:


> If your (you're) interested, I have the specs and links to all 3 interfeces...of the Motorola DVR most commonly used for cable...


Motorola interfeces? Hmmm...just as I suspected. :lol:


----------



## ayalbaram

Jaspear said:


> I've been waiting for that "inconsistent tone" fix for months!


yeah it will make it a lot easier to peak a dish using the 811


----------



## jerryez

I got the 282 update. Up until now, I have had minor problems with my 811. An occasional freeze up, requiring a reboot. Now every time I go to an OTA channel that has low power, the 811 freezes and I have to reboot to get the 811 to work. Signal strength for OTA in my area are low, since the stations are operating at minimal power. I cannot go through the OTA channel witout the 811 freezing. I get the channel logo and no picture. The channel logo stays on screen and I cannot change channels or go to the guide. I have to reboot to get it to work. I am not *****ing, just stating the facts.


----------



## lionsrule

Is the newest version in wide release yet?

I have NOT yet received P282. 
Yes, I DO turn off my 811 overnight, and I DO have it set for automatic download.

Anyone else not receive this newest software version yet?


----------



## Bobby94928

No, it's not in wide release yet. When you go to the following website, if you see more than 1 revision then it's still coming down a little at a time.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp


----------



## WHNB

*P282 Software Update*

My 811 received the latest update this past Thursday. Since then the following has happened at least once per day:
I am surfing up or down the local OTA digitals and at some point during this process the next digital channel that I select with the "^" button will only bring the _banner information for this station superimposed over a black background._ The 811 is then frozen at this point and requires power off, power on, "acquiring satellite", "downloading programming guide", and finally the selected station comes on. If I were to hit the "^" button to then proceed to the next local digital channel, the exact sequence that I just described would occur again. To avoid going through this reboot a third time, I have to punch in any non-local channel number, such as one of the national cable networks, to get away from the locals menu.

The above freeze also happens when the 811 has been on a local digital channel for awhile and I then press "Guide" on the remote.

The 282 update appears to have made worse a long-standing 811 problem: the receiver's inability to seamlessly mesh the free over-the-air local digital channels with the national channels in the America's Top 120 subscription package.


----------



## khearrean

Cholly said:


> On another note -- why would anyone even bother to use the 811 to tune their analog OTA channels if their TV has an NTSC tuner? I can understand using an STB if you're feeding a monitor or projector that has no tuner, but other than that, IMHO you are usually better served by using the tuner in your TV.


The reason is simple, not being able to use the 811's OTA tuner (because it's analog PQ is lousy) requires having to use an add'l input. This has been my gripe all along....And doing so defeats one of the advertised features of the 811 which is to be able to seamlessly integrate your locals with the SAT channels.

Ken


----------



## Jason Nipp

Nick said:


> Motorola interfeces? Hmmm...just as I suspected. :lol:


I knew you would be the one to catch that Nick............ :grin:


----------



## Bob Saylor

I notice one thing in common with most of the 811 problem threads. O.T.A. Since I don't receive any O.T.A. stations my 811 has pretty much gotten better and better since I first started using it. Some owners still have a few problems but those using separate antennas account for about 90% of the troubles anymore. I think it's time for Dish to try harder to help them. It would be nice if future downloads would address more of their problems.


----------



## citico

I hooked up my antenna to the media box for the TV. Now I don't use the 811 for
OTA. The TV tuner picked up more stations and stays locked on. No more BSOD.
With the Harmony 676 remote the setup was easy and when I select Watch OTA
activity, it turns the 811 box off. I would think that all HD TV sets would have that option.


----------



## Mikey

Bob Saylor said:


> I notice one thing in common with most of the 811 problem threads. O.T.A. Since I don't receive any O.T.A. stations my 811 has pretty much gotten better and better since I first started using it. Some owners still have a few problems but those using separate antennas account for about 90% of the troubles anymore. I think it's time for Dish to try harder to help them. It would be nice if future downloads would address more of their problems.


No doubt, OTA is the main offender in the latest set of 811 issues. What that tells me is that Dish Test & Evaluation has dropped the ball in their regression test procedures lately. While they focus on how to improve the stability of the receiver and increase functionality with satellite signals, they have (inadvertently, I hope) caused much grief to the 811 users who depend on this receiver to watch CSI, NFL football, and other "compelling HD content" that isn't available from the satellite. The local stations in most parts of the country have stepped up to the plate to broadcast digital signals to the community, at a significant dollar outlay. The least that the satellite providers can do is to test their product with real-world digital OTA signals to the point where changing channels won't cause the viewer to lose 5 minutes of his/her favorite program while waiting for the receiver to regain it's sanity, or only display 1 hour of EPG data when days of data are available. The worst part of this problem is that this functionality used to work flawlessly.

If Dish is serious about customer support and product reliability, heads should roll in the test department. Calls and letters from aggravated customers following the general release of a defective product should not be the first indication of a major product flaw. I could send Dish some IEEE standards on software engineering practices, and maybe they have the standards already, but that won't make a difference unless there are consequences for not following practices that produce a certified product.


----------



## Ron Barry

Mikey said:


> No doubt, OTA is the main offender in the latest set of 811 issues. What that tells me is that Dish Test & Evaluation has dropped the ball in their regression test procedures lately. While they focus on how to improve the stability of the receiver and increase functionality with satellite signals, they have (inadvertently, I hope) caused much grief to the 811 users who depend on this receiver to watch CSI, NFL football, and other "compelling HD content" that isn't available from the satellite. The local stations in most parts of the country have stepped up to the plate to broadcast digital signals to the community, at a significant dollar outlay. The least that the satellite providers can do is to test their product with real-world digital OTA signals to the point where changing channels won't cause the viewer to lose 5 minutes of his/her favorite program while waiting for the receiver to regain it's sanity, or only display 1 hour of EPG data when days of data are available. The worst part of this problem is that this functionality used to work flawlessly.
> 
> If Dish is serious about customer support and product reliability, heads should roll in the test department. Calls and letters from aggravated customers following the general release of a defective product should not be the first indication of a major product flaw. I could send Dish some IEEE standards on software engineering practices, and maybe they have the standards already, but that won't make a difference unless there are consequences for not following practices that produce a certified product.


Hmmm.. Well first off welcome. Now... You made a few statements here that I feel are incorrect.

1) Not everyone is having the issues that are described here. I for one have OTA and I have not seen the BSOD or acquiring signal since the udate. I have my hooked up 24/7. I have OTA with about 12 stations configured. I have seen it the past the BSOD issue and the acquiring signal issue.

2) "The local stations in most parts of the country have stepped up to the plate to broadcast digital signals to the community, at a significant dollar outlay." Do you have any evidence on this statment. My understanding is OTA across the country is still a mixed bag at best. Stations not at full power and lots of areas don't have it. If this statment was true then the need for HD locals offered by Dish would not be an issue. It is and a big selling point for cable companies.

3) I am not sure how long you have had your 811, but it has never worked flawlessly. Maybe in your use case for a period of time, but if you spent anytime reading the 811 threads for each release you would know that one of the main oddities is that some people have good success while others do not and the group seems to change with each release. Personally I feel the 811 has improved since its orginally release by a huge margin. Other feel differently, but I personallly never have felt it worked flawlessly.

4) As to the software practices of Dish and IEEE standards. Well There have been a lot of discussions on this issue. I would suggest a search and you will get a lot of opinions. Since none of us have actually been involved in the process all we can is speculate where the issues are. For reference, I am a software engineer with 15+ years experience developing distributed enterprised level products. I will have to some, some of the bugs Dish has released to the wild should have never seen the light of day.


----------



## bavaria72

Well based on the input I have seen regarding 282, I have decided not to accept the download for right now. I do get OTA channels and watch them daily (overload on Sunday!). So with the (seemingly) worsing issue with OTA, I don't want that headache right now since, with 281, my 811 works fine with OTA channels. :nono2:


----------



## Mikey

WeeJavaDude said:


> Hmmm.. Well first off welcome. Now... You made a few statements here that I feel are incorrect.
> 
> 1) Not everyone is having the issues that are described here. I for one have OTA and I have not seen the BSOD or acquiring signal since the udate. I have my hooked up 24/7. I have OTA with about 12 stations configured. I have seen it the past the BSOD issue and the acquiring signal issue.
> 
> 2) "The local stations in most parts of the country have stepped up to the plate to broadcast digital signals to the community, at a significant dollar outlay." Do you have any evidence on this statment. My understanding is OTA across the country is still a mixed bag at best. Stations not at full power and lots of areas don't have it. If this statment was true then the need for HD locals offered by Dish would not be an issue. It is and a big selling point for cable companies.
> 
> 3) I am not sure how long you have had your 811, but it has never worked flawlessly. Maybe in your use case for a period of time, but if you spent anytime reading the 811 threads for each release you would know that one of the main oddities is that some people have good success while others do not and the group seems to change with each release. Personally I feel the 811 has improved since its orginally release by a huge margin. Other feel differently, but I personallly never have felt it worked flawlessly.
> 
> 4) As to the software practices of Dish and IEEE standards. Well There have been a lot of discussions on this issue. I would suggest a search and you will get a lot of opinions. Since none of us have actually been involved in the process all we can is speculate where the issues are. For reference, I am a software engineer with 15+ years experience developing distributed enterprised level products. I will have to some, some of the bugs Dish has released to the wild should have never seen the light of day.


Sorry, I should have posted my credentials too:
811 user since December, 2003.
Software Engineer w/25 years experience with mission critical embedded firmware.

So, point by point:

1. You don't have the BSOD problem with 2.82. Good, that means there is an environment somewhere that the 811 can work in. What we may be seeing is that the 811 doesn't work in marginal conditions. That's what stress testing and "corner case" testing is supposed to uncover.

2. There are over 1300 digital stations now broadcasting across the USA, with more to come:
http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/issues/digitaltv/DTVStations.asp
Are they all at full power - No; are they all doing HD - No. Have they made a substatial investment in equipment and transmitters - YES. Do I want the 811 to work well with the stations that I can receive - YES.

3. I never said that the 811 worked flawlessly, I said that those particular functions did. The guide got messed up in 2.81, and the OTA to OTA BSOD appeared in 2.82 (yes, there may have been permutations of this fault in previous releases, but 2.82 aggravated this problem).

4. We can agree on that point. Dish should never have released the last two revisions of 811 firmware in the state that they did.


----------



## Ron Barry

Mikey said:


> Sorry, I should have posted my credentials too:
> 811 user since December, 2003.
> Software Engineer w/25 years experience with mission critical embedded firmware.
> 
> So, point by point:
> 
> 
> Mikey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You don't have the BSOD problem with 2.82. Good, that means there is an environment somewhere that the 811 can work in. What we may be seeing is that the 811 doesn't work in marginal conditions. That's what stress testing and "corner case" testing is supposed to uncover.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. However, even with all the stress testing in the world you still will not catch things that happen in the wild. And testing coverage costs money so the cost benefit ratio has to be considered here also given what this box does. The oddity here that has me confused is that some basic functions are described to be working differiently for different users. Things I would not expect to be hardware dependent. (Example: Info screen issue)
> 
> 
> 
> Mikey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. There are over 1300 digital stations now broadcasting across the USA, with more to come:
> http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/issues/digitaltv/DTVStations.asp
> Are they all at full power - No; are they all doing HD - No. Have they made a substatial investment in equipment and transmitters - YES. Do I want the 811 to work well with the stations that I can receive - YES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it goes without saying that we all want it to perform with a digital signal for sure. In my case I am happy with the OTA performance, but also understand that others are not. However, I also believe the OTA performance is leaps an bounds better than it was back in January time frame.
> 
> I also feel that OTA is an art and that this is the case where mileage may vary. I have read reports where the 811 has performed better than other STBs in the same location and reports where it has not. I have mine running with video on the EPG and it is pretty solid. Not discounting your experiences , but not sure how wide spread the damage is in terms of reliability.
> 
> I still feel that HD OTA is coverage is small in terms of area and when you combine all the other factor like terrian into the equation the number is smaller.. Yes companies are investing in it, but I still think it has a long way to grow and mature.
> 
> I would be very surprised that Dish does not test their 811s with OTA signals. Very surprised. I have no information that indicates one why or another. However, If you go over to the avsforum and look at the HD threads there you can see people having all sorts of problems getting and locking OTA HD content. (At least it was the case year ago when I was looking for way to improve my signal)
> 
> 
> 
> Mikey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. I never said that the 811 worked flawlessly, I said that those particular functions did. The guide got messed up in 2.81, and the OTA to OTA BSOD appeared in 2.82 (yes, there may have been permutations of this fault in previous releases, but 2.82 aggravated this problem).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "The worst part of this problem is that this functionality used to work flawlessly." <- I must have misunderstood what you meant by this statement. The "No Info" on the guide has been around for a while in different forms. The acquiring signal has been around since 6000 days. BSOD was new recently. Well it sounds like your last statement admits that it did not work flawlessly, but better with previous releases.
> 
> In my use case, the OTA performance took a bit of a dip with 2.81. I would not say a huge deep. With 2.81, I have to reboot about once every two weeks. With 2.82, no reboot yet but it is early.
> 
> 
> 
> Mikey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. We can agree on that point. Dish should never have released the last two revisions of 811 firmware in the state that they did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well for me 2.81 was a step up for me. Way too early to give a call on 2.82 for me. I am not having any issue so far, but I am a sample point of one.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ron Barry

bavaria72 said:


> Well based on the input I have seen regarding 282, I have decided not to accept the download for right now. I do get OTA channels and watch them daily (overload on Sunday!). So with the (seemingly) worsing issue with OTA, I don't want that headache right now since, with 281, my 811 works fine with OTA channels. :nono2:


I am not having any issues so far with 2.82, but not a bad choice given some reports seen. If you are not getting the BSOD a lot or the no info on the guide, then this update might not be a big deal.


----------



## bavaria72

Thanks WJD. I think I'll wait a few weeks and see if a 282.1 or 282.2 sneaks in. I'm sure E* occasionally will "tweak" an update do to persistant issues. But this does raise an interesting question. If E* does a general release and a sub does not take it, if E* does a small update (e.g 282.1) does the orginal software download stay in que or is it replaced by the "update"?


----------



## Ron Barry

bavaria72 said:


> Thanks WJD. I think I'll wait a few weeks and see if a 282.1 or 282.2 sneaks in. I'm sure E* occasionally will "tweak" an update do to persistant issues. But this does raise an interesting question. If E* does a general release and a sub does not take it, if E* does a small update (e.g 282.1) does the orginal software download stay in que or is it replaced by the "update"?


I don't think E* ever does what one would call a quiet update (No Version Change). If they made any change they would change rev the version. Not doing this can result in a support nightmare and make troubleshooting very difficult.


----------



## jerryez

I am also having a problem with the guide info. With 282, When I bring up the guide it states "no info" on all channels. The guide downloading screen is in the middle, but does not download. The guide is frozen and I cannot get out of the guide without rebooting the 811. Anone else seen this with the 282 release.


----------



## Ken H

I've had a lot of HD receivers, OTA, DirecTV, Dish, VOOM. The 811 is simply the worst, and all the fixes do is rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Some problems are sorta fixed, others crop up.


----------



## citico

Today is Friday the 26th. Almost a week and a day since the rel of 282. I stiil have not received the new update. Should I be concerned? I do turn the box off at night
and I have the box checked without my permission.


----------



## SimpleSimon

Rumor has it that P282 distribution has been frozen due to some problems.

That's all I know about it.


----------



## jerryez

Good, Cause my 811 received all of those problems.


----------



## BFG

citico said:


> Today is Friday the 26th. Almost a week and a day since the rel of 282. I stiil have not received the new update. Should I be concerned? I do turn the box off at night
> and I have the box checked without my permission.


If you use OTA a lot, then you probably don't want this update. SimpleSimon's probably correct about them stoping the update. They are now working on getting P283 released...


----------



## Jerry G

samarama said:


> I've had a lot of HD receivers, OTA, DirecTV, Dish, VOOM. The 811 is simply the worst, and all the fixes do is rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Some problems are sorta fixed, others crop up.


This is how it's been with Dish for a long time. The only difference is that now it's getting worse instead of better. I think they lowered the pay scale for the programmers and this is the result. Doesn't Charlie have enough wealth? I guess not.


----------



## Jerry G

BFG said:


> If you use OTA a lot, then you probably don't want this update. SimpleSimon's probably correct about them stoping the update. They are now working on getting P283 released...


Considering that 282 made the OTA problem worse, it's obvious that Dish is really floundering with OTA and the 811. 283 should be a real disaster if this trend continues.


----------



## Broadband Lab Rat

My P282 problems are awful. I don't have issues when I change OTA channels except for certain ones...

1) One local OTA station (strong >90), when tuned to via the guide or direct, now immediatly goes into a flashing BSOD cycle of once per second, then after 10 or so seconds, reboots the 811.

2) One local OTA station, strong (85-88), when tuned via the guide or direct, shows BSOD, then loss of signal. This station, when manually added to OTA, shows strong signal but will not lock.

3) One local OTA station (medium strength ... 75-78) has simply completely stopped being detected... but my neighbors with other receivers see it fine. I'm still receiving normally weaker stations OK.

I normally receive 7 different OTA stations, and the 3 of them above are no longer usable. I have removed locals and a factory reset from menu, then both scanned OTA to re-add and manually added OTA ... same problems with only those 3 OTAs.

What a mess. I sure wish I had not accepted this load, as it makes almost 1/2 my OTA unusable.


----------



## WHNB

Here's another issue that I've noticed over the past two days that was not happening before the 282 release:

I have my seven local over-the-air digital channels in "Favorites List #3", along with the five national channels that are in the HD programming package. Since yesterday, some or all of the local channels keep disappearing from the favorites list, leaving just the Dish HD pack channels.

I have returned these locals to the favorites list by modifying the list and re-checking the boxes next to the local stations' channel numbers in the menu. This action adds the locals back, but they won't necessarily be there the next time that I access that list.

Yesterday all the locals had vanished from List #3, and today only one of the seven was there. 

Prior to 282, the highest-numbered national channel in the Dish HD pack would sometimes disappear from the favorites list, but not the local over-the-air channels.


----------



## ibooksrule

how good are the ota digital HD channels on the 811. i dont worry about analog i can get most of my channels via digital ota winguard antenna just fine. just curious


----------



## Jason Nipp

ibooksrule said:


> how good are the ota digital HD channels on the 811. i dont worry about analog i can get most of my channels via digital ota winguard antenna just fine. just curious


In my opinion, my OTA digitals far surpass the locals delivered to me via Dishnetwork LiL, and I am not just speaking in terms of HDTV which LiL cannot offer at this time.

Jason


----------



## MarkoC

I haven't received the update yet and because I watch a lot of OTA, that sounds like a good thing . . .


----------



## Jason Nipp

Rumor has it that the rollout has been frozen...I haven't heard back yet whether this is factual yet or not.


----------



## bavaria72

Oh my. This is not good. Thank goodness I decided not to take this update. I will also be holding off taking 283 until a bunch of "beta testers" (  ) make sure it is OK for the rest of us to take it. Unacceptable. If I ran software out to my Customers like this, I would be in the unemployment line. I hope some one is fired over this.


----------



## Bobby94928

bavaria72 said:


> Oh my. This is not good. Thank goodness I decided not to take this update. I will also be holding off taking 283 until a bunch of "beta testers" (  ) make sure it is OK for the rest of us to take it. Unacceptable. If I ran software out to my Customers like this, I would be in the unemployment line. I hope some one is fired over this.


LOL, if someone was to get fired over this there would be no one left. There have been crashes with every revision.


----------



## Jerry G

Bobby94928 said:


> LOL, if someone was to get fired over this there would be no one left.


True. But then we wouldn't have to worry about the next release which will certainly be worse than the current one. That's the Dish way of doing things. It's amazing that Charlie could be become one of the richest in the country while being the leader of so much incompetence.


----------



## drjlo

nippjas said:


> In my opinion, my OTA digitals far surpass the locals delivered to me via Dishnetwork
> Jason


I think you UNDERemphasized the inferiority of DISH locals. Lemme correctly state it: my OTA digitals far-and-away, without hint of shadow of doubt, unequivocally and inarguably look a bazillion times better than DISH's woefully poor excuse for local channels, which wouldn't pass the color-blindness test for a real blind man.

I remember trying to watch "Friends" on DISH locals once. It was so hazy, blurry I couldn't tell Chandler apart from Joey...

And this whole fiasco over P282. HOW do you chose not to "take" the program? Do you just keep the 811 on 24/7? But how do you do THAT when I have to reboot 811 to get it to work daily?


----------



## Tom in TX

HOW do you chose not to "take" the program? 


You can go into the menu, look for system upgrade, and choose "download WITH my permission". I have that option chosen, as I do not want 282!
Tom in TX


----------



## Jason Nipp

P282 has been officially killed............P283 will start phase 1 rollout December 2nd.

Jason


----------



## Jason Nipp

drjlo said:


> I think you UNDERemphasized the inferiority of DISH locals. Lemme correctly state it: my OTA digitals far-and-away, without hint of shadow of doubt, unequivocally and inarguably look a bazillion times better than DISH's woefully poor excuse for local channels, which wouldn't pass the color-blindness test for a real blind man.


 Ok...but my LiL locals are 100 times better than they were when first launched. My daughter is legally blind...please don't mess around. The LiL locals look fantastic on my 32"...but they look like chit on the big screen...But anyways point taken.



drjlo said:


> And this whole fiasco over P282. HOW do you chose not to "take" the program? Do you just keep the 811 on 24/7? But how do you do THAT when I have to reboot 811 to get it to work daily?


menu 6-1-2...check box that says "Ask before downloading".

Jason


----------



## n0qcu

nippjas said:


> menu 6-1-2...check box that says "Ask before downloading".
> Jason


That works most of the time, however if dish really wants to they can force a download even if your receiver is on. So there is no absolute way to prevent getting a download but what Jason said is the best to do.


----------



## Jason Nipp

n0qcu said:


> That works most of the time, however if dish really wants to they can force a download even if your receiver is on. So there is no absolute way to prevent getting a download but what Jason said is the best to do.


Yes they can force a download, they can also remotely Master Reset a DP receiver...You can prevent....pull the plug.... Though this method will prevent more than just a firmware update...


----------



## rocatman

Will P283 just fix the problems created by P282 or is it what was planned for P283 but includes an update to fix the P282 problems?


----------



## Jason Nipp

I haven't received the final release notes yet...but I have heard rumors that it reverts P282 changes. I will know for sure shortly.

Jason


----------



## Guest

nippjas said:


> I will know for sure shortly.
> 
> Jason


Shortly, as in a jiffy? or in a bit? near future? tomorrow? a few days?


----------



## Jason Nipp

gpflepsen said:


> Shortly, as in a jiffy? or in a bit? near future? tomorrow? a few days?


 http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=244636#post244636


----------



## Guest

32 minutes = shortly

Good job!


----------



## drjlo

"*Patch-Delayed Power-up"

Oh, God. Please let it be so. Last I talked to DISH (last week), tech support told me this fix was slated for possibly february..


----------



## etaggart

After the 282 upgrade I've had a problem with my guide and menu displays when set to 720p mode. I have a Sony LCD projection Tv using a DVI connector. The guide and menu displays now FLASH when brought up on the screen! I called dish and they blamed the TV. I called Sony and they said it was impossible that the TV was doing it as when displaying 720p content it's fine. It's just the static menus & guides that the 811 puts up.

I called dish back and got a second tech to told me that a new software update would fix the problem in January.... Has anyone else experienced this problem? I've tried both the component outputs as well and get the same flashing. Also the flashing DOES NOT occur when set to 1080i or 480p.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Official word is P283 was delayed at the last minute. Should spool next week.

Jason


----------



## khearrean

It's been 'eerily' quiet lately regarding 2.82; has anyone heard any news as to whether the bugs have been fixed and will re-spool or whether 2.83 is the fix & is on the horizon? To be safe, I have my 811 set to not accept the upgrade w/o my permission.

Ken


----------



## bavaria72

I think I saw some where they are talking early Jan.


----------



## Ron Barry

khearrean said:


> It's been 'eerily' quiet lately regarding 2.82; has anyone heard any news as to whether the bugs have been fixed and will re-spool or whether 2.83 is the fix & is on the horizon? To be safe, I have my 811 set to not accept the upgrade w/o my permission.
> 
> Ken


From my experience, software is never changed from big companies and then respolled at a previous version. There is always a verison upgrade. I will be willing to be the next version will either back out some changes or add some fixes to address what 2.82 did. It might be called 2.83 or some other version, but it will not be respooled at 2.82.

Having said that. It was suppose to be out this week. Jason is the one that usually has some information, however, I am not sure if he can say anything or wants to say anything.

(Not directed to you Ken)
:soapbox: :rant:It gets tiresome when people start attacking the messanger and I would not blame Jason for keeping quiet. Mark, Scott, Jason and a number of other people take a lot of time to provide information from reliable sources. Some of it come to life other pieces do not. When something doesn't happen as planned, at times it gets nasty and sometimes people hold people that provided the piece of information accountable for a rumor from a reliable source. All this is done in the spirit of helping communication and in a positive way.

When someone is trying to help, the frustration should not be directed at the person trying to help. It happens and I have been at the end of it. It can get tiresome and kudos to everyone here that gives of themselves to try and help in constructive ways. Great example is people wanting to step up and help with some testing on the 811 and the users that stepped up for the 522. This is where I think the real power is on these sites:soapbox: :backtotopic:


----------



## Mark Lamutt

For what it's worth, I've heard absolutely nothing out of Dish about P283 for a couple of weeks now. I assume that beta discovered some issues that needed to be fixed before release, but I don't know that for a fact.


----------



## Jason Nipp

As of today the official word led me to regurgitate that P283 is not ready for public consumption. My gut feeling is that it will not spool and P284 will go in Jan as previously planned. Yes, I know why, but as Ron stated I can not share that info. 

Jason


----------



## bavaria72

nippjas said:


> ...Yes, I know why, but as Ron stated I can not share that info.
> 
> Jason


You are such a tease Jason!  Thanks form all of us! - Art


----------



## Jason Nipp

Keep an eye on this forum....I will let you now when the info is ready.

Jason


----------



## Bobby94928

Thanks Jason.....


----------

