# Ask DBSTalk: Problems with DPP44 and 61.5!



## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I took advantage of the $100 upgrade fee to install a 3rd dish. I got $100 worth in that they got rid of all of my legacy stuff and put in dish pro lnbs, a new dish for 61.5, and a dpp44 switch. 

The problem is that the setup doesn't work!!! 

The check switch only shows what I had to begin with, namely 110, 119, and 148. Nothing about 61.5.

We (the installer and I) tried front panel reboots, and power plug reboots, but nothing worked. Then, to make sure we had the signal for 61.5 (since I live on the west coast), he connected a 311 to the setup. The 311 showed all four satellites on the dpp44, including 61.5. To our complete amazement, the signal strength on 61.5 on the 311 was a whopping 121! Seems impossible to me.

I've tried removing 148 from the lineup, but that didn't help. I have tried moving 61.5 to the 3rd and 4th inputs on the dpp44, nothing!

Any ideas on how to make this setup work with the 921?


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## yaesumofo (Apr 22, 2005)

I also took advantage of the upgrade. $100.00. It didn't work right at first either.
First there needs to be a power injector.
Also the LNB's have got to be dish Pro units. Also on the 921 only one signal is brought from the switch and then it is split at the receiver. (That made a lot of difference.)
The installer had never done one of these before. I think that is probably your biggest problem. It was my biggest problem.
I didn't watch him but he spent some time up on the roof switching around LNB inputs into the switch. It took several tries. But he got it to work.
It seems as though installers do not have experience with the Dish Pro equipment...yet.
Just make sure that when they changed the switch to dishProPlus that they did all the other gear as well.
Yaesumofo


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I saw your other post in the General Dish Network discussion Yaesumofo. I'm a bit confused though, because in that one you said:



Yaesumofo said:


> One thing he did at first was to remove the power injector. The DishproPlus44 it seems does need the injector to work properly.


And in this thread, you said:


Yaesumofo said:


> First there needs to be a power injector.
> Also the LNB's have got to be dish Pro units. Also on the 921 only one signal is brought from the switch and then it is split at the receiver. (That made a lot of difference.)


It seems a contradictory. You need a power injector, and then you need to remove the power injector?

If there are always multiple signals required for the 921, in the scenario you are mentioning, they are just stacked onto one line. The signal isn't split, the two signals are separated into two cables that connect to the satellite inputs on the 921. Splitting attenuates the signal too much.

Does anybody know what Yaesumofo's installer did to make this work? I've read some stuff that a power inserter might be required on port 1 of the dpp44, but that it doesn't work if the power bias is on one of the 921 inputs. Is that confirmed true? Do you really need to do this by using a single line separator? I've got two lines running to the 921. Is there some sort of combiner that you use on the roof? Maybe it is done via one line with the separator so you can convert the other line as a dedicated line which is used to power port 1 on the dpp44?

I would sure like to know!

Thanks for any information that anyone has about this!


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## yaesumofo (Apr 22, 2005)

Read carefully. Both posts indicate that a power injector is needed.

Yes he did remove the injector only to find out later that it is needed.
Yaesumofo



jsanders said:


> I saw your other post in the General Dish Network discussion Yaesumofo. I'm a bit confused though, because in that one you said:
> 
> And in this thread, you said:
> 
> ...


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

jsanders,
To use the 921 with the DPP44 you must use the DPP seperator. It's just another of the 921 software bugs. It just currently will not work correctly running two lines from the switch.


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## yaesumofo (Apr 22, 2005)

I asked him to not split the signal and to bring both signals to the 921 as it was set up when the SW64 was being used. I asked specifically fro him to connect it the way it was. When he did and a check switch was performed it only saw all 4 birds (110 119 148 61.5) on the #2 input and only one (110) bird on the #1 connection. When he did it his way by using a single coax which is divided at the receiver. This worked. He didn't call it a splitter (it looks like one) but is says dish network on it and is called a separator.
All I can say is that a power injector is required and that a separator is used by bringing a single line from the dishproplus44 into a separator and feeding the 2 feeds from it to the two satellite connections on the 921.
All I can say is that this works.
Yaesumofo



yaesumofo said:


> Read carefully. Both posts indicate that a power injector is needed.
> 
> Yes he did remove the injector only to find out later that it is needed.
> Yaesumofo


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## yaesumofo (Apr 22, 2005)

Is this a bug or it it by design? IF it works well this way it certainly saves energy money time ...on new installs while only using one feed from the switch.
It works fine using the separator....as far as I can tell.
Yaesumofo



n0qcu said:


> jsanders,
> To use the 921 with the DPP44 you must use the DPP seperator. It's just another of the 921 software bugs. It just currently will not work correctly running two lines from the switch.


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

A side question on this is the $100 upgrade offer to get 61.5 added to your system included the cost of the DPP44? I thought those switches were running $200 a pop. If so, then that might be a very interesting deal.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

dishbacker said:


> A side question on this is the $100 upgrade offer to get 61.5 added to your system included the cost of the DPP44? I thought those switches were running $200 a pop. If so, then that might be a very interesting deal.


If required (for example you currently have a DP34) you'll get the DPP44 switch,
plus an 18 inch dish and separator (also if required) all for $100. It would cost you $260 if you did it yourself. 
I will have my installation performed on May 7th and will forward my comments if there are any problems or new developments.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Huh...well, this is obviously fixed in the next software version, because I've connected my 921 to my DPP44 without a separator under the last 2 betas, and my checkswitches are working just fine, seeing all 4 satellites with no problems.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

jsanders said:


> I took advantage of the $100 upgrade fee to install a 3rd dish. I got $100 worth in that they got rid of all of my legacy stuff and put in dish pro lnbs, a new dish for 61.5, and a dpp44 switch.


Okay -- So let me get this straight. You just called up Dish and said I want a third dish so that I can get the 61.5 bird for the Voom HD channels? And they said they would get you setup (with whatever was needed, including installation) for $100? --- Wow! If so, I think I need to give them a call too. 

--John


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Huh...well, this is obviously fixed in the next software version, because I've connected my 921 to my DPP44 without a separator under the last 2 betas, and my checkswitches are working just fine, seeing all 4 satellites with no problems.


So what you're saying is that a separator isn't needed for the 921 with software L213?
Does the separator attenuate the signal more than not using one?
Can the model 5000 receiver be used if I have the DPP44 switch 
(with 121 superdish and 61.5) the reason I ask is the model 5000 only showed 61.5, 110, 119 and 148 in its signal strength menu screen and not 121.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying it won't have to be used in L214, if it does have to be used now. I have no idea about attenuating the signal. And I have no idea of a 5000 can be used with a DPP44. I imagine so, but I don't know for sure.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

"DPP" (DishProPlus) gear mimics an SW 64 when you attach a legacy receiver to one of it's outputs. There is one caveat: you cannot see any "wing sats" on legacy receivers, only 119/110 http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=229 .



> FROM THE DPP Twin user's manual:
> • DP Plus dual-tuner receivers require a software download to complete the installation. A special
> download procedure is included in the user guide.
> • There is a 200' cable length limit for DISH Pro and DP Plus dual-tuner receivers with some additional
> ...


I know you have a switch, not the twin, but some of these points may also be true for your switch (especially the point about a special software download)
I hope this helps.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jsanders said:


> I took advantage of the $100 upgrade fee to install a 3rd dish. I got $100 worth in that they got rid of all of my legacy stuff and put in dish pro lnbs, a new dish for 61.5, and a dpp44 switch.
> 
> The problem is that the setup doesn't work!!!
> 
> ...


jsanders, have you done a reset of the switch (disconnect power to power inserter, disconnect the LNB inputs re-connect the inserter and run a check switch) You should see the four positions with X's. Disconnect the inserter, reconnect the lnb's, re-connect the inserter and do another check switch. I at first tried to run my 921 with out a separator (2 cables), I got all satellites but only odd or even channels.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks for the suggestion boylehome, and yes, I did that a couple of times already. Interesting thing is that when you run the check switch w/o power so as to get nothing, it goes through 28 checks, whereas when it is powered, it only goes through four.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks for all of your suggestions everyone! Yaesumofo gave me enough information to figure it out. 

It works now! 

I picked up a DPP separator today and I took port three from the DPP44 switch, separated it, and ran both outputs into the 921. I ran the power inserter, without connection to a receiver, as a DC bias for port 1 of the switch, which powered the unit without involvement from the 921.

I did a check switch, and a few seconds later, 61.5 appeared with a signal strength of 88 (it was raining heavily at the time)! 

About half a minute after that, the 10 voom channels appeared!

That was a hundred dollars well spent. It would be good though, if I had an installer that knew about this issue.

Again, thanks for all of your input. :goodjob:


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Michael P said:


> "DPP" (DishProPlus) gear mimics an SW 64 when you attach a legacy receiver to one of it's outputs. There is one caveat: you cannot see any "wing sats" on legacy receivers, only 119/110 http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=229 .
> I know you have a switch, not the twin, but some of these points may also be true for your switch (especially the point about a special software download)
> I hope this helps.


That is interesting Michael, something to be aware of. Fortunately, I only had the 921 attached to the DPP44, no legacy receivers.

It would be nice if info like this was part of larger trouble shooting section on DBSTalk or somewhere similar.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Thanks for the suggestion boylehome, and yes, I did that a couple of times already. Interesting thing is that when you run the check switch w/o power so as to get nothing, it goes through 28 checks, whereas when it is powered, it only goes through four.


My did the 28 checks when I had legacy equipment. My 311 go to 50 with nothing attached.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I take back what I said above - I'm having problems with my 921 connected to 2 outputs of my DPP44 I believe. I'll be testing this futher tomorrow, but I now believe that a couple of things that I haven't been able to nail down may be caused by my hookup.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Michael P said:


> "DPP" (DishProPlus) gear mimics an SW 64 when you attach a legacy receiver to one of it's outputs. There is one caveat: you cannot see any "wing sats" on legacy receivers, only 119/110


Don't know about the twin, but according to the DPP44 installation guide you can get 1 wing just fine on a legacy receiver.

There's a nice little chart. Let's see if I can summarize...

models: 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, JVC D-VHS, 7100, 7200
Dish ports 1-3: any dbs satellite (no 105/121)
port 4: not supported
(so you can get 110/119 & 1 wing on port 3 - looks like a legacy SW64).

models: 2800, 3900, 4900, 6000
ports 1 & 2: 110 & 119
port 3: 61.5, 148, 105, 121
port 4: 105, 121

models Dish Pro & Dish Pro Plus
No Restrictions on port Usage (any port any bird)

Since the legacy's can't do HD anyway, it shouldn't be a problem putting it on port 4 (assuming your getting locals from 148 on port 3).


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## gunawo (Aug 17, 2004)

Mark,
For your information,
I installed a DPP44 in place of my DP34 today and did not use a separator
I'm having the same problems as others. The 921 sees 61.5 but says no signal.
I've ordered a separator. I did not reinstall the DP 34 because The receiver seems to function normally but I just don't receive 61.5.
One side effect I've seen that I did not with the DP34 is a video and audio drop on recorded programs. It just drops for a second or two, very annoying. I've read about this problem but never experienced it myself until I installed the DPP44.
Another piece of the puzzle????

Superdish 110,119,121
Dish 300 61.5 (no signal)
All DP LNBs
DPP44


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Maybe, slimjim...maybe.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> Since the legacy's can't do HD anyway, it shouldn't be a problem putting it on port 4 (assuming your getting locals from 148 on port 3).


Huh?? Am I missing a context or something? My legacy lnbs and legacy sw21s did HD just fine. I must be mis-understanding what you meant by that.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I believe he means legacy IRD's can't do HD. Legacy LNB's OTOH do work.

I stand corrected on the "no wing sats on legacy IRD's" post, I misinterpreted something on the DishStore.net page. You can get wing sats on a legacy, as long as the LNB for the wing is a DP LNB. This is wth a DPP twin or switch - not a DP.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Michael P said:


> I believe he means legacy IRD's can't do HD. Legacy LNB's OTOH do work.


Yea, that's what I ment.


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## sledhead 700 (Apr 27, 2004)

Same as you all...Had the $100 install for a 3rd dish and a DPP44 switch, 921 and 508 receivers. The 508 sees all the sats 119, 110, 121, and 61.5 with good strength. 921 sees 119, 110, 121 and no 61.5...it sees the LNB but no signal. Installer on the phone with tech 1.5 hours (on hold most of the time). Tech says there is a problem with my 921 and they will RMA me another. After reading this thread it looks like another issue. I thought I would try the separator but it looks like on the Dish Depot site you need to have DPP LNBs also. Anyone that has made this work..Do you have DPP LNBs or just DP LNBs?

Thanks for your help

Dave


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## dfergie (Feb 28, 2003)

Try a Seperator first...If your dpp44 works, you have dishpro lnbs instead of legecy's.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

sledhead 700 said:


> I thought I would try the separator but it looks like on the Dish Depot site you need to have DPP LNBs also. Anyone that has made this work..Do you have DPP LNBs or just DP LNBs?


No, you do not need Dish Pro Plus LNB to use DPP44 (and separator). Legacy LNB will not work, but the regular Dish Pro is fine.

If you're using two feeds from the DPP44, definately get the separator (that should make the 921 happy).

(unlikely an installer will know about the problem, doubt many CSRs do either).

I reported this months ago, but I don't think anyone believed me...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36430&highlight=DPP44


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

My 921 has been receiving 61.5 just fine. I have a DPP444 installed in November without a separator.


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## sledhead 700 (Apr 27, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> No, you do not need Dish Pro Plus LNB to use DPP44 (and separator). Legacy LNB will not work, but the regular Dish Pro is fine.
> 
> If you're using two feeds from the DPP44, definately get the separator (that should make the 921 happy).
> 
> ...


Thanks David- I will get a separator and let you all know.

Dave


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## erh1117 (Feb 1, 2005)

Yesterday, I had my local installer put up a third dish (for 61.5). Shhhh!!! Don't tell the wife!

Anyhow, the only issue was dish placement. And the DP44 and separator worked without a hitch. So, now I've got VOOM and am impressed with the quality of the VOOM picture. The content is a bit spotty and repetitive, but I have already justified the $5.00 per month with one movie the wife loved ("Passage to India") and one Rave concert I loved.


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## rstaples (Sep 17, 2004)

Michael P said:


> "DPP" (DishProPlus) gear mimics an SW 64 when you attach a legacy receiver to one of it's outputs. There is one caveat: you cannot see any "wing sats" on legacy receivers, only 119/110 http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=229 .


Michael, Dish updated my Dual and twin LNBs to Dishpro using a DP34 switch so I could watch the new VOOM offerings. I am having problems in that it worked when first installed then, later that evening, the system could not find the switch. This morning, I tapped the switch lightly by using a broom handle and it started working again. Now, again this evening, the system is reporting a switch error. If it is not a compatability problem then it would seem that I may have a bad switch or loose connection at the switch. Any ideas anyone?


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

rstaples,

Well, if tapping it with a hammer has any effect, you have a bad switch (or a lose connection). Hitting it really hard with a very big hammer should make the problem less intermittant .

Why use the hammer? If you paid dish for the install, call em back and let em fix it.


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## rstaples (Sep 17, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> rstaples,
> 
> Well, if tapping it with a hammer has any effect, you have a bad switch (or a lose connection). Hitting it really hard with a very big hammer should make the problem less intermittant .
> 
> Why use the hammer? If you paid dish for the install, call em back and let em fix it.


I used a broom handle since standing on top of my ladder I still could not reach the switch. No hammer was used, although I was angry enough to try one. :lol:

My FIRST step was to call Dish and reschedule and they will be here tomorrow to fix it. I just wondered if anyone else was having a problem with this particular switch so I could avoid having them reinstall with the same reception problems and have to wait another four or five days to reschedule yet another "fix". :nono2:


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

My install was completed May 7th. The installers did have problems seeing the 61.5 sat through the DPP44. They finally got it to work after adding the separator however even doing that earlier didn't work at first. If all is working it should do the 4 point switch test and not the 28 or 34 tests that were initally seen.


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## rstaples (Sep 17, 2004)

rstaples said:


> I used a broom handle since standing on top of my ladder I still could not reach the switch. No hammer was used, although I was angry enough to try one. :lol:
> 
> My FIRST step was to call Dish and reschedule and they will be here tomorrow to fix it. I just wondered if anyone else was having a problem with this particular switch so I could avoid having them reinstall with the same reception problems and have to wait another four or five days to reschedule yet another "fix". :nono2:


Dish came back today and replaced the DP34 switch and everything seems to be working fine now. One problem I had thought might be with the new VOOM channels was that it often took between 7 and 14 seconds to change from one VOOM channel to another. After the new switch was installed that problem disappeared.


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## sledhead 700 (Apr 27, 2004)

I got the separator today and installed. Ran check switch see all 4 sats. Thanks to all who helped  

Dave


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## Apure (Jan 24, 2003)

One thing to keep in mind: The installer will most likely show up without any knowledge of the need for a DPP44. When I setup the appointment with Dish I specifically let them know that I needed a DPP44 since I have locals on 148. The CSR checked with a "supervisor" and was told I was right. The installer showed up with a work order that nowhere mentioned a DPP44. Of course he did not have one with him. After calling his office, he said he'd be back in half an hour. Half an hour later he was back DPP44 in hand. After installing the new dish and switch, we ran a check and sure enough only one input recognized the setup (I had two separate lines running from the switch to the 921). I told him we needed a separator to split one line before we connected it to the 921. He put the separator in and voila! four satellite locations available. He called Dish and activated the additional channels. Even though he had never seen a 921 before, he was open minded enough to listen to my suggestions and got job done. Had I not read this thread, we would still be trying to figure out what was wrong.


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