# FROM MARK: L187 - OTA Problems?



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Here we go again... 

DO NOT ANSWER UNTIL L187 SPOOLS AND YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO TEST YOUR OTA FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS!

Under L187, are you experiencing OTA problems? That is, do you have any OTA stations that you were previously able to save and tune to that you no longer can lock onto, save or tune? Do you have to re-add OTA channels after the nightly reboot?

Once again, if particular stations are causing you problems, please report those stations in this thread, providing contact information for the stations if possible. At the very least, please provide the following information:

station call letters and city where station is located
the digital broadcast channel
the PSIP remapped channel
is the station broadcasting PSIP data
do your trick play (FF, REW, Slow motion, pause, etc) functions work with the channel
can you record successfully from the channel
do you get 0 second recordings from the channel
do timers set for the channel fire correctly

The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for the programmers to fix the bugs in L188 or L189.

Thanks once again for your participation in this data collection thread.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I had to leave a quick new thread because the Submit New Thread is not working so I couldn't post it as a Poll. I don't know if Mark has not turned it on yet. I don't think I need to wait a couple of days for this bug because it has been going on since April.

Severtiy:Minor

I received L187 this afternoon and immediately pulled the plug on the 921 for about five minutes to clear any OTA database issues. I had removed all the OTA stations prior to the power plug reboot. I then scanned for DTV stations and still there is no local NBC station. The problem seems to have begun with L180. I've had the installer here to adjust the antenna and nothing could be done. I've had Dish send another 921 and it made no difference. It's down to either the software or something the local station is doing or not doing.

I've tried calling technical support and they just refer you to your local installer/retailer so calling them does no good.

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F051

I always keep it on HD.
Output Mode: 1080i only
Aspect Ratio: 16X9

Here is the local station information:

NBC Local - KOB - www.kobtv.com - Sean R. Anker - (505) 243-4411
DT channel 26 mapped to 4.

I will move it to the "Post New Thread" section to add a Poll if Mark wants me to or if it gets moved to the "to be deleted" section.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

With L187:

KCET, Los Angeles's PBS station
Digital 59 remapped to 28-1 and 28-2 subchannels (28-1 broadcasts HD, 28-2 broadcasts an SD signal).

Trick play does not work for either channel

Cannot record. Timer can be set, starts at the correct time, ends at the correct time, but ends up with a 0 second recording.


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## conner65 (Jan 26, 2004)

WSB ABCDT channel 39DTV, analog is channel 2 in Atlanta, GA. *Still no PVR functions * whatsoever. Timers set but get 0 seconds.

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F051

Output Mode: 1080i only
Aspect Ratio: 16X9


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## Todd G. (Jan 21, 2003)

WTVR, Richmond Virginia. I get signal at 117 and lock but can't save channel. This started at version 186 and continues in 187. I get 7 other channels without problems.

Boot version: 120B
Flash version: F051
SW version: L187HECD-N

Station: WTVR
Location: Richmond Virginia
Digital Channel: 25-1
PSIP: I don't think so
Contact: Don Cox
Email him: [email protected]


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

lujan said:


> ....<snip> I then scanned for DTV stations and still there is no local NBC station. The problem seems to have begun with L180. I've had the installer here to adjust the antenna and nothing could be done. I've had Dish send another 921 and it made no difference. It's down to either the software or something the local station is doing or not doing. <snip>



This is NOT a 921 problem. KOB will be back at full power later today. Try testing it this evening. See message below from Sean.

.....G



Sean Anker said:


> The last pieces just showed up today from the manufacturer. They sent us
> back the amplifiers, but forgot to ship the power supply. Go figure.
> 
> The crew will be heading up the mountain first thing in the morning. You
> ...


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

OTA ch# 013-01 is still a no go for recording, no DVR functions either..

013-01
013-02
WTHR, channel 13 Indianapolis
Contact person:
Al Grossniklaus
Director of Engineering and Operations
WTHR NBC 13/WTHR-DT 13.1/13.2 Indianapolis
[email protected]


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## lynnie (Jul 31, 2004)

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052

CBS - KEYE - Austin Texas
DT Channel 43 mapped to 42-1

I can't pause, play, ff, rew, etc
Get 0 second recordings


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I've had to manually re-add NBC every morning with L186 (or else suffer from the "Channel 5-1 Not Found" error when I try to tune it). I decided to try this again with L187, for the same channel (channel WMAQ-DT here in Chicago). However, in a bizarre twist, this wound up adding the analog version of the channel, so that when I later punched "005" into the remote, I was watching the analog station (which previously wasn't on my list of scanned channels at all, since I don't like to have the analog channels in the list).

Steps to repeat:
1) Go into the "Local Channels" menu and pick "Add DTV".
2) Enter channel "29" and observe solid green lock with signal strength 110+.
3) Pick "Save" to save the channel.
4) On the channel screen, observe that the channel which now appears to have been added at the list is the analog one (i.e. analog 5), not the digital one (i.e. digital 29 mapped to 5.1)!

Channel Information:
WMAQ (Chicago) - NBC Channel 5.
Analog: 5. Digital: Broadcast on 29, maps to 5-1.
Previously was being lost every night on L186.

Receiver Information:
Boot: 120B
Flash: F051
Software: L187HECD-N


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## magyar (Aug 13, 2004)

My L187 problems:

Still having issues with the local PBS station, KTCA in St. Paul, MN.
Its signal on channel 34 is mapped down to 2-1. No subchannels that I can see.

If I do a manual digital-channel add, is shows up in the channel list as an ANALOG channel (??), and I indeed get the analog channel 2 (regular VHF) if I tune to it from the program guide. So I can't even watch 2-1 anymore at all.

In the L186, I could tune this channel in, watch it, and record it. The only problem was that the channel would vanish every night and I'd get the "can't find channel, go up or down" (or something like that) message. I'd manually add it and it would work fine for another 24 hours.

In the one before L186, I could tune the channel, I could watch it, the channel didn't disappear, but always got zero-second recordings.

Definitely a step backwards.....


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## jmillecpa (Jul 17, 2003)

The CBS affiliate in Tulsa, KOTV, digtial channel 55 (6.1) still cannot use any DVR functionality to record, pause, skip back. Can only watch live.

This is after 187 installed and power cord reboot.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

L187

KCOP Los Angeles.
Analog 13, Digital 66, maps to 66.1

Scan locks the channel now (was not working previously), however, when I tune to it, all I get is a black screen. Have confirmed channel is up and I'm receiving very strong signal.


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## robhendricks (Aug 10, 2004)

Slordak said:


> I've had to manually re-add NBC every morning with L186 (or else suffer from the "Channel 5-1 Not Found" error when I try to tune it). I decided to try this again with L187, for the same channel (channel WMAQ-DT here in Chicago).





Slordak said:


> I have the same problem - In Chicago, added DTV 29 - ended up with both analog channel 5, but also digital channel 5.1. I'll check tomorrow to see if 5.1 unlocks.


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## korek (Aug 12, 2004)

KBHK (UPN, Digital 45, Analog 44, no PSIP) in San Francisco still goes black. No problems with KPIX (CBS, Digital 29, Analog 5, PSIP) which is owned by the same company and broadcast from same tower. After the nightly reboot I can select 45 from the guide and watch it, but if I change channels and go back to 45 then it is totally black until next reboot. There is no message that the signal can't be acquired. Signal strength 116 to 125 and says "acquired and locked". I can record manually after reboot, but still haven't been able to get a timer to record Enterprise in HD any Friday night yet.







No 0 second recording and nothing new appears in DVR list. Trick play is fine. Nothing lost on reboot. I had previously phoned in this bug on L186.

Receiver Info:
Boot: 140B
Flash: F052
Software: L187HECD-N
KBHK TV 44
855 Battery Street
San Francisco, CA 94111
415-249-4444


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

korek said:


> KBHK (UPN, Digital 45, Analog 44, no PSIP) in San Francisco still goes black. No problems with KPIX (CBS, Digital 29, Analog 5, PSIP) which is owned by the same company and broadcast from same tower. After the nightly reboot I can select 45 from the guide and watch it, but if I change channels and go back to 45 then it is totally black until next reboot. There is no message that the signal can't be acquired. Signal strength 116 to 125 and says "acquired and locked". I can record manually after reboot, but still haven't been able to get a timer to record Enterprise in HD any Friday night yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have basically the same problem with this station. However, it DOES transmit PSIP, at least in some form. DonLandis was insightful enought to point out how to find out. Turn on closed captioning. KBHK has it, therefore, they are transmitting some PSIP info.

For me, I can watch it once after a nightly reboot. I have been very happy though, because my weekly timer has been recording "Enterprise" regardless of the troubles I have had with that channel. This black screen problem was introduced in L186.

The odd thing is that I haven't yet been able to figure out why the nightly reboot helps. I have found that a soft reboot doesn't help me get the channel back. I will try a power plug reboot soon. I suspect that there is some sort of a PSIP decode state machine, or an MPEG decode state machine that is not re-initializing itself. Very bizarre that we can watch the channel one time per day.....


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## indyras (Jan 20, 2004)

I am having the same problems as Redster with the NBC affiliate in Indianapolis (WTHR 13.1).

All attempted recodings end up as 0 seconds. None of the DVR trick play functions work either.

At some time in the past, all of the trick play functions and recordings worked fine on WTHR. I am not 100% sure, but I believe that the DVR problems with WTHR began when L184 was downloaded.

The contact information for WTHR is supplied in Redster's post.



Redster said:


> OTA ch# 013-01 is still a no go for recording, no DVR functions either..
> 
> 013-01
> 013-02
> ...


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## rixhd (Jul 14, 2004)

KTWB Seattle, WA Channel 22-01, RF channel 25, WB local
No trick Play
Cannot record.
Get 0 second recording.
Do not have this problem with 9 other OTA DT local channels
After receiving L187 I rebooted with the button, card and power cord.
Reset to factory defaults.
Rescanned digital channels.


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## mraub (Mar 5, 2004)

Can the sensitivity of the 921 OTA receiver be adjusted from software? I have one channel that my 811 locks solidly on, but which the 921's lock is intermitent. There's an addtional 30 feet or so of coax to the 811, so it's probably getting a bit less signal to work with as well.

MIKE


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

mraub said:


> Can the sensitivity of the 921 OTA receiver be adjusted from software? I have one channel that my 811 locks solidly on, but which the 921's lock is intermitent. There's an addtional 30 feet or so of coax to the 811, so it's probably getting a bit less signal to work with as well.


Try disconnecting the 811 and the additional 30 feet or so of coax. That will give you around 4dB depending on the quality of the splitter. If it improves, then you get an idea of how much boost you need. What kind of signal strength does that channel show on the 921 when you manually add that channel?


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

OK, here's my current summary of KNOWN problems with my 921 in Los Angeles. Please note that I have a strong signal for all LA channels, with a short, clear shot to Mt Wilson.

One note from 186, I had reported that Ch 48 (KOCE 50-1,2,&3) would apparently add, but all I got was a black screen and no audio. Something apparently changed with the signal, because I started getting it perfectly before 187 downloaded.

Problems remaining (and new) with L187.

1. PBS (ch 59 remapped to 28-1 (HD), 28-2 (SD). Cannot record, pause, backup, or use any othe DVR functions on 28-1, the HD channel. This hasn't changed during the time I've had my 921.

2. KCOP (the local UPN station). Can now lock and acquire a strong signal, and the station is added to the list as 66-1, and 66-2. This is an improvement. However, I'm not sure that there is a 66-2. In any event, there is no audio or video on either 66-1 or 66-2. And, I get the message "could not find 66-1 .... etc, and so on". 

3. KCAL (Channel 43, remaps as 9-1). This is a Viacom owned channel. I can add this channel and view it. However, the system forgets about it overnight, so I have to add it each day that I want to view it. Also, (and this is new with L187) when I add the DTV channel, it also adds the analog channel 9. 

4. NEW PROBLEM. (this could have happened before, but I never paid any attention to it, since I don't watch the channel). If I try to manually add (KDOC Ch 32 .. 32-1), the system says that it has a strong signal .. ~120 .. and it locks and acquires. But, after saving, it does not show up in the list of channels.

My opinion is that L187 didn't do anything useful for me. KCOP appears to be "better", but I still cannot view it.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I went into menu 6 - 8. I went to Add DTV and entered channel 34 (our local digital ABC affiliate KRCR) The signal locked in at green at signal strength 115. The signal showed, signal strength of 120 with a green bar(Locked: Channel 34). The Channel is listed but it is only a black screen. Scan DTV also recovers the channel and it can be saved. This stations does not broadcast PSIP. All other digital channels, KIXE 18-0-1, KCVU 20 locked just fine. We also have distant KNVN 36 and KHSL 43 but they are too far away and are broadcasting in low power. This had been a problem with L185 and L186. It has never worked on my 921. Digital channel 34 does function well and properly on my model 6000. When I try again to do an ADD DTV. It slows the system down to the point it no longer respons to any commands and I must reboot to get functionality of the 921


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## conner65 (Jan 26, 2004)

*I can't believe it!* I tried using the PVR functions again and *they worked* on WSB channel 39ABCDTV mapped to 2-1 from analog channel 2 Atlanta Ga. I don't what changed between now and this past Friday. I haven't tried recording yet but I will report back after I set a timer. I still cannot not add my locals to my favorites. I haven't rebooted after adding them if that is something I supposed to do.

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F051

Output Mode: 1080i only
Aspect Ratio: 16X9


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## jgerow (Apr 12, 2004)

Boston: w/L187:
WHDH channel 7-1 (physical channel 42): no PVR 

WCVB channel 5-2 (physical channel 20); have to re- "Add-DTV" to get this secondary (ABC 24 hr news) subchannel; primary 5-1 is fine; PVR & timers ok.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Just as a side note Mark. After the rescan of my local OTA's under L187. I see all my available channels listed in the scan list. Under the guide though,, I am only showing 5 locals (L186 showed all of them). There are 2 channels not listed in guide that I rarely was able to watch with L186, their transmitters are not located in same path/direction. It could be a little confusing for others though to see all of their locals after a scan and then find only a couple actually viewable.


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## Martyf (Apr 8, 2004)

With L187 I have noticed a different behavior with the Guide and OTA channels. Previously selecting an OTA digital channel with multiple subchannels from the Guide brought up another menu that allowed me to select the subchannel I wanted to select. Now selecting a DT OTA channel through the guide selects the number 1 subchannel and no secondary Guide menu appears.

L187 did fix allow my FOX and WB DT channels to properly be displayed as 49-1 and 49-2. Before I only saw one subchannel and it varied between Fox and WB. These channels are not using PSIP. The DVR recording works with both of them now. However, if I select 49 from the Guide, I can get 49-1, and once I change from this channel I can not get audio or video from 49-1 and 49-2 until I do a card or power reboot of the 921. If I only select 49-1 or 49-2 by the up and down keys or by directly entering the station number, they continue to work.

I still get no audio or video from KWQC TV (www.kwqc.com) DT 56 (6-1 and 6-2). I have a very strong signal and they can be added manually or through the scan, but they do not work. This is very disappointing to me, because this is my NBC affiliate and I am not in an area that is allowed to get the Olympic HD signal from Dish.

Marty

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052


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## alipka (Dec 11, 2003)

WPSG-DT (57-1) Philadelphia:
Does receive
NO PVR functions whatsoever on this station. Other stations do have PVR functions.
Timers set but record at 0 seconds.

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F051


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Have had no problems with receiving ota stations til187. Even though i have a strong signal (80) the picture will break up for a while, then eventually lock. If I key in the channel no. most of the time it will lock, however, if I scroll up or down to this station(cbs) I just get a jumbled picture. If I recall to this station it will usually come in. 
I called tech(after two days trying to get the station to come in) however tech could not help.

CBS Station channel 10-1 or 24 hd Tampa, Fl. WTSP CBS
F051 120B
L187HECD-N
Not sure if has PSIP or (really know what it is)
no problem recording station
www.wtsp.com. Tele. 1-727-577-1010


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## chuckbernard (Aug 3, 2004)

KRNV NBC in Reno Nevada is only a black screen on 7-1. The second channel 7-2 works fine.

Broadcast on frequency 7 (7-1 & 7-2)
Does NOT transmit PSIP information. I called the station and they do NOT even have PSIP equipment yet. 
It locks with a signal strength of 125.
All other OTA stations in my area are working fine. However, the other stations do send PSIP information.

L187 is slightly improved over L186 in that doing a scan now locks both 7-1 and 7-2 OTA channels (L186 only found 7-1). However only the 7-2 station is viewable. 7-1 is just a black screen no matter how long it is left (20 minutes). The 7-1 channel behaves the same as in L186 did. I get the same results if I choose "Add DTV" to add the channel.

The person in the station's engineering department is Steve Galvin (775) 322-4444.

In addition:

If I press the "Record" button on the remote it begins recording after choosing manual user stop from the options. Nothing gets recorded and eventually the 921 slows down to the point that it takes 1 minute to bring up the guide, change channels, etc. A power button reboot is necessary since it is NOT possible to cancel the recording. (Note that with L186 it was not possible to get the record button to even respond.)


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## nextime (Jan 28, 2004)

I live in Chicago also. How did you know that NBC Digital is channel 29? Do you know what the other equivilents are? Also, I was recording a satellite channel and a OTA channel at the same time during which time I tried to watch a recorded program. I got the stop program choice menu and had to select one before I could watch the recorded program. The Olympics made me do it. Otherwise, I have given up on watching OTA because of the wierd problems. Thanks in advance for the info.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

KFDX-DT channel 28 Wichita Falls (maps to 3.1) broadcasting simple 480i digital (no HD feed, just converting analog to digital).

Locks up 921 doing tricks like rewind. 921 becomes extreamly slow and unresponsive. Cannot change channels, etc. Have to reboot to fix.

DNASP103 Rev300
140B
F052
L187HECD-N


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## conner65 (Jan 26, 2004)

conner65 said:


> *I can't believe it!* I tried using the PVR functions again and *they worked* on WSB channel 39 ABCDTV mapped to 2-1 from analog channel 2 Atlanta Ga. I don't what changed between now and this past Friday. I haven't tried recording yet but I will report back after I set a timer. I still cannot not add my locals to my favorites. I haven't rebooted after adding them if that is something I supposed to do.
> 
> SW Version: L187HECD-N
> Boot Version: 120B
> ...


I said I would report back. My timers fires fired for the most part on WSB channel 39 ABCDTV unless they was bumped up to a recording that was getting ready to end. Then they just didn't fire. When I went in to cancel the timer it said that It I needed to stop the recording first, which was impossible b/c there was no recording in progress.


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## Martyf (Apr 8, 2004)

I just talked to Doug Bierman at KWQC (56 DT mapped to 6-1, 6-2) in Davenport, Iowa. He is the chief engineer there. Although I have been able to lock in their signal at 100+, and it maps correctly on the 921 to 6-1 and 6-2, I get a black screen and no audio on both the subchannels.

Doug indicated that they are using static PSIP and have to reintroduce the subchannel breakdown after the signals are combined. 

KWQC (563-383-7000) is an NBC affiliate own by Young Broadcasting.

Doug said that most of the stations owned by Young Broadcasing are using the same digital equipment (from the same manufacturer). Two of their other stations are: 

WKRN - ABC in Nashville, TN and WTEN - ABC in Albany, NY.

Is anyone in those markets having similar black screen problems with these stations?

Marty

SW Version: L187HECD-N
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052


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## Mike Russell (Feb 6, 2003)

KY3-DT 44 NBC Springfield MO.,No DVR functions or will not record.They also own UPN 15 which comes from same antenna, but is just digital and DVR and record works with it. 
003-01 ky3, (don't work)
003-02 upn1 (does work)

Tom McKleroy (chief engineer at KY3) didn't know this, but would like info on this if anyone can help.He is also a dish network subscriber.

[email protected]

My only other dt channel that I get which is PBS KOZK 21, (DT 23), all DVR functions work.

My dvr functions didn't work on KY3 before SW 187 either.


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## daveray (Feb 12, 2004)

KOTV ch6 digital 56 Tulsa OK
KJRH ch2 digital 55 Tulsa OK
Remaped to 002-01 002-02 006-01
Do not know if they are broadcasting PSIP
No trick play
No recording shows 0 seconds
http://www.teamtulsa.com/
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/main.asp


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## rjbu (Aug 12, 2003)

station call letters and city: WPSG, Philadelphia, PA 
the digital broadcast channel: 32
the PSIP remapped channel: 057
is the station broadcasting PSIP data: don't know
do your trick play functions work with the channel: no
can you record successfully from the channel: no
do timers set for the channel fire correctly: yes, but 
do you get 0 second recordings from the channel: yes

station contact information: 
UPN 57, WPSG-TV
101 S. Independence Mall East
Philadelphia, PA 19106
(215) 574-5757
[email protected]


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

mraub said:


> Can the sensitivity of the 921 OTA receiver be adjusted from software? I have one channel that my 811 locks solidly on, but which the 921's lock is intermitent.


Keep in mind the 811 has a better ATSC receiver.

The 921 uses the same receiver as the 6000, an older design. At least that's what was in my first 921 (the one that died) when I peaked inside. I was surprised, since I thought the chip was no longger in production.


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## oxy8384 (Jun 9, 2004)

Same problem now that appeared with L186 (I assume)

Can't save KFMB channel 8 (CBS) OTA (dig channel 55). Signal is consistently over 100, so I have no problem adding it.

I do not know their PSIP status.

What other information do you need? You can e-mail me to minimize clutter, here.


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## BobinStLouis (Sep 7, 2004)

I have a new Dish 921 and trying to scan for local signals. If I directly tune it to the HD channel in my area (st. louis), it can get a lock on several of the channels (utilizing the Add DTV) I try to save it from here since the signal is showing 112-115 steady, but nothing happens. Also if I scan ATV or DTV, no channels are ever found. I am just running a cheap indoor antenna currently, but don't know what else to try?

I am such a newbie though, I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or is something reallly broke? I question that it is me since none of my locals are being detected. 

Thanks.

Bob


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Bob, what are the stations that show signal but can't be saved from the Add DTV screen? Does the bar turn green or does it stay red? Please provide station call letters, broadcast channel, PSIP remapped channel (if appropriate) and contact information for the stations if possible.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

BobinStLouis said:


> I have a new Dish 921 and trying to scan for local signals. If I directly tune it to the HD channel in my area (st. louis), it can get a lock on several of the channels (utilizing the Add DTV) I try to save it from here since the signal is showing 112-115 steady, but nothing happens. Also if I scan ATV or DTV, no channels are ever found. I am just running a cheap indoor antenna currently, but don't know what else to try?
> 
> I am such a newbie though, I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or is something reallly broke? I question that it is me since none of my locals are being detected.
> 
> ...


Any indoor antenna has,"bad odds" problems. There are many factors associated to frequency interference that will affect the quality of the actual signal. If it doesn't lock on the scan dtv then it is doubtful that it is going to lock on the add dtv. The signal strength that you report is pretty good, but there are other things that may very well negate the actual quality of the, "DIGITAL" signal. The digital signal is very different than an average analog signal. Try an outdoor antenna and see if there are improvements. Just moving your body in the area of the indoor antenna can change everything, for the worse. Also, some of the broadcasters have PSIP streaming problems or there is a lack of PSIP. For some reason, it is required by the 921 to have a properly working PSIP stream. My favorite broadcaster in my local area doesn't have PSIP yet and they are in no hurry. Therefore I just get a strong signal with a lock, but the actual picture is black and no audio.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

boylehome said:


> The signal strength that you report is pretty good, but there are other things that may very well negate the actual quality of the, "DIGITAL" signal.


How do you think it can differentiate that it has a good signal without other things that degrade that good signal? For instance, Let's you have a line of sight, no reflection signal strength of "90" according to the 921's meter. Now add multipath. Do you think the signal strength will still be "90", or do you think the multipath will degrade that signal strength? If you can differentiate that the strength "should" be "90" but it is less because you have multipath, then you are well ahead of the game. In other words, if someone is getting a "pretty good" signal strength, that most likely is the summation of everything else, RFI, multipath, etc..

There is no reason to suggest that they calculate the real signal strength with all of the problems this signal has, and then add x dB because they want to show you what the signal "should" be if the multipath wasn't present.

When the signal bounces, the signal inverts. Summing the direct signal and the reflection usually attenuates, or in some rare cases can cause a slight gain.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

BarryO said:


> Keep in mind the 811 has a better ATSC receiver.
> 
> The 921 uses the same receiver as the 6000, an older design. At least that's what was in my first 921 (the one that died) when I peaked inside. I was surprised, since I thought the chip was no longger in production.


Are you really sure that the 921 has the same ATSC card as the 6000? I have a 6000 which works really well with my locals, but the 921 sucks. Perhaps a software issue, but I'm beginning to wonder. I think that the 921 has an inferior ATSC card.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jsanders said:


> How do you think it can differentiate that it has a good signal without other things that degrade that good signal? For instance, Let's you have a line of sight, no reflection signal strength of "90" according to the 921's meter. Now add multipath. Do you think the signal strength will still be "90", or do you think the multipath will degrade that signal strength? If you can differentiate that the strength "should" be "90" but it is less because you have multipath, then you are well ahead of the game. In other words, if someone is getting a "pretty good" signal strength, that most likely is the summation of everything else, RFI, multipath, etc..
> 
> There is no reason to suggest that they calculate the real signal strength with all of the problems this signal has, and then add x dB because they want to show you what the signal "should" be if the multipath wasn't present.
> 
> When the signal bounces, the signal inverts. Summing the direct signal and the reflection usually attenuates, or in some rare cases can cause a slight gain.


I'm glad that you agree.


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## BobinStLouis (Sep 7, 2004)

Thanks for the help. Here are my Locals

KDNL-DT ( ABC )
DTV Ch(s): 31

KETC-DT ( PBS )
DTV Ch(s): 9.1 9.2 9.3

KMOV-DT ( CBS )
DTV Ch(s): 56

KPLR-DT ( WB )
DTV Ch(s): 11-1(26)

KSDK-DT ( NBC )
DTV Ch(s): 35

KTVI-DT ( FOX )
DTV Ch(s): 43

But again - I don't know if this is my problem or the 921. 

Also my 921 gets very slow and almost locks up sometime? Anyone else have this problem before?

Thanks again for everyones help.

Bob


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Mark,

I e-mailed you about my local Fox station having problems causing the 921 to not be able to record the feed several months ago. I believe you passed the information on and the problem was resolved shortly thereafter. Well the problem has come back again as of yesterday. This time I do not have any DVR capabilities at all on my Local Fox station. I cannot even pause the station. All attempts to record the station via timer events or manual recordings result in 0 second recordings. Could you please pass this info onto the correct person to get this problem fixed? Would it do me any good to call my Local Fox station about this...I don't think they would even know what a 921 is let alone how to go about fixing it?

My local Fox affiliate is WJBK, Channel 2 in Detroit, MI. Their Main Switchboard number is (248) 557-2000. Their website address is http://www.foxdetroit.com/.

Let me know if you need any additional info.

Thanks,
Jason

Model ID: DishDVR 921
Boot Version:120B
Flash Version: F051
Software Version: L187HECD-N


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

BobinStLouis said:


> Also my 921 gets very slow and almost locks up sometime? Anyone else have this problem before?
> 
> Bob


Know issue with the ADD DTV. It is bothersome to say the least.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

boylehome said:


> I'm glad that you agree.


No offense, but I wasn't agreeing with you.


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