# GPS to fail?



## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Fox news has reported your car navigators will stop working next year when many GPS satellites are due to fail.

I'm very sure that's all nonsense. Does anyone have any insight into this matter?

--- CHAS


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Largely this is nonsense...

The GAO has reported that their is potential for the GPS system to experience outages or failures due to the age of the GPS satellite fleet.

A new generation of GPS satellites is ready to begin replacing existing satellites but there are issues of launch vehicle availability and funding.

The GPS fleet is controlled by the U.S. Air Force and currently consists of 30 satellites, that cover the entire globe. there are a number of older satelites still in orbit that are "asleep". The AirForce could activate any of these older satellites if necessary.

Also, conservation of existing satellites could be enacted if necessary... GPS Satellites have "other functions" mostly secret although one known "secret" function is that they detect instantaneously any nuclear event regardless of how small. The Air Force says that some "other functions" could be shut down to help conserve if necessary.

All of this is mute unless there is a truly lengthy delay in sending up new satellites. Entirely too much is dependent upon the GPS for there to be any real crisis allowed to develop, especially considering the commercial and military uses.



HIPAR said:


> Fox news has reported your car navigators will stop working next year when many GPS satellites are due to fail.
> 
> I'm very sure that's all nonsense. Does anyone have any insight into this matter?
> 
> --- CHAS


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## mikep554 (Feb 14, 2007)

Basically, a government review of the Air Force's management of the GPS program has found that they are not on-track for replacing the older satellites on-time and on-budget. So as time goes by, the older sats have an increased chance of failure if they aren't replaced when they were scheduled. But then the Mars rovers are at about 1000% of orginal expected lifespan, so who really knows?

But it's not like the GPS birds are suddenly going to power down due to some 2010-related bug. And since it seems that most of the world, including our own armed forces, use GPS for practically every navigational system, I don't think the government will let this one get too out of control.


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## mikep554 (Feb 14, 2007)

Bummer. Larry both beat me and had a much more detailed explanation.


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## gilviv (Sep 18, 2007)

I agree with your quote "Largely this is nonsense...:

Sounds like the usual MEDIA response "ALARM & SCARE" and destort the facts!
A few GPS sats are getting near the end of their theoretical "end" and all will fail! Don't think so!!!:nono2:

Did they mention that as they fall to Earth the old sats will knock out ALL of D*'s and E*'s geostationaries and we'll loose our signals going into an endless loop of 771 on our screens and then NASA will ready their fleet of Shuttles and be forced to...........was I just doing the same thing the media does?:eek2: SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sideswipe (Dec 4, 2008)

Doom & gloom all the way!!!


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

It's already happening. My Garmin nuvi wouldn't take me to my ex's address. 

Thanks, l'il buddy!:lol:


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Kiss your Garmin and thank it!



Nick said:


> It's already happening. My Garmin nuvi wouldn't take me to my ex's address.
> 
> Thanks, l'il buddy!:lol:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

gilviv said:


> I agree with your quote "Largely this is nonsense...:
> 
> Sounds like the usual MEDIA response "ALARM & SCARE" and destort the facts!
> A few GPS sats are getting near the end of their theoretical "end" and all will fail! Don't think so!!!:nono2:
> ...


 ther're too low for that.. they'll hit new york city instead :lol:
on second thought, if they hit wall street they may do us a favor :lol:


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

I know that a typical receiver can look at a slew of satellites simultaneously, but how many does it take to get a GPS lock?


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

4 satellites for lock. It takes 24 satellites to completely cover the globe.



HDG said:


> I know that a typical receiver can look at a slew of satellites simultaneously, but how many does it take to get a GPS lock?


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

gilviv said:


> I agree with your quote "Largely this is nonsense...:
> 
> Sounds like the usual MEDIA response "ALARM & SCARE" and destort the facts!
> A few GPS sats are getting near the end of their theoretical "end" and all will fail! Don't think so!!!:nono2:
> ...


Saw the same type of story on NBC but they pretty much said don't worry it will never happen.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

What do you guys expect? It's getting close to 2012!


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## txtommy (Dec 30, 2006)

HIPAR said:


> Fox news has reported your car navigators will stop working next year when many GPS satellites are due to fail.
> 
> I'm very sure that's all nonsense. Does anyone have any insight into this matter?
> --- CHAS


Consider the source. It is nonsense.


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## gilviv (Sep 18, 2007)

The MEDIA goes crazy with this kind of "The Sky is Falling" stuff!
One of you guys said it right..... "DOOM & GLOOM" 
Anyone remember SKYLAB?
Just recently the media storm over SWINE FLU......."DOOM & GLOOM" man...."DOOM & GLOOM" :grin:


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> 4 satellites for lock. It takes 24 satellites to completely cover the globe.


Thanks, Larry ... so in essense it would take multiple satellite failures before my GPS would fail?

I had a GPS failure in my SUV some three or four months ago. It cleared up by the next day, but my GPS was one confused puppy while it was happening. I also noticed that it didn't give me any warning that the data it was displaying was bogus.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

With how important GPS is to the military/government alone they are not going to let it just die and fail. Then add on all the consumer uses and it is a technology that should be a priority for many groups 

The media is just using scare tactics IMO.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

HDG said:


> Thanks, Larry ... so in essense it would take multiple satellite failures before my GPS would fail?
> 
> I had a GPS failure in my SUV some three or four months ago. It cleared up by the next day, but my GPS was one confused puppy while it was happening. I also noticed that it didn't give me any warning that the data it was displaying was bogus.


It was most likely something on your end or blocked signals by your surroundings. Usually 4 minimum are required for a lock but around 6-10 are visible at one time most of the time and your GPS receiver will pick up on multiple ones to achieve a better lock.

Your GPS chipset can also determine the speed/accuracy of lock and how well it performs in weak signal areas.

I used to review a lot of GPS devices and the performance difference can be quite amazing. All work well for your normal on road travel, but some are quite a bit faster at initial lock and others are much better at getting signal in very weak areas. They also tend to differ in pinpoint accuracy a bit.

I have my favorite, a little Bluetooth GPS, that is insanely quick at first lock and can get a lock even inside my house. Sadly I do not use many of my GPS gadgets anymore and just dont find the need for nav that much. I do have one built into my car, but even that one does not get a ton of use.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I saw this on NBC Nightly News ... the headline was about GPS being overloaded. My first thought was about there being too many users pulling the signals from the satellite. (It doesn't matter how many people are listening ... it takes no more power to serve a million than it does one.) Fortunately their story was accurate (including a mention my the Air Force that they WOULD be able to continue service at it's current levels to all users).

New satellites are good and are needed, but the sky is not falling.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> I saw this on NBC Nightly News ... the headline was about GPS being overloaded. My first thought was about there being too many users pulling the signals from the satellite. (It doesn't matter how many people are listening ... it takes no more power to serve a million than it does one.)...


Slightly OT, but several years ago I was telling a friend about the X-10 wireless a/v sender-receiver system, explaining in simple terms how the sender wirelessly transmits a/v signals from an stb or DVD player to one or more a/v receivers connected to remote TVs. He asked how many a/v receivers could be used. I said 'No limit -- it's like a radio station -- as many radios (receivers) as you have room for in your home.'


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Look, the media always puts a Chicken Little scare on things - anything to sensationalize things. Look at the recent press release from Pfizer. They announce that they will supply prescription drugs to people who become unemployed for up to a year. 70 drugs were covered under the program. The headline on 3 different websites that I saw? "Pfizer to give free Viagra to unemployed". Viagra was one of the 70 listed in the press release, but the only one mentioned by name by the media.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Free Viagra for the unemployed?!?! :welcome:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Who cares about GPS, according to the media we should all be dead by now. I mean between the small pox (remember the vaccine shortage from a while back), the bird flu (remember that farce) and the swine flu (boy the media buzz about that dropped in a hurry) we should all be dead by now thus not needing GPS.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

Don't GPS satellites contribute to global warming???


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Steve: It's worse than that. I remember the 1976 swine flu scare. The reason I remember it so well is that the vaccine they gave out killed my grandfather. He wasn't supposed to take it (because of certain medical conditions that would interact with it - but he was as strong as a bull and still working as a longshoreman in his *70s*!) but his 'buddies' on the docks basically said he was a wimp for not taking it. The reaction put him in a coma for weeks before he woke up with the mind of a 3-year-old and lingered for 2 years before dying.

They predicted AIDS would wipe us all out before the 1980s were done.

We were seconds away from a nuclear winter.

Pollution was so bad we wouldn't be able to have enough arable land for enoug famrs to make food to eat or any water to drink because all the fresh water would be contaminated..

We were headed for a new ice age.

This is why I don't get alarmed at alarmism. Sure, if we did nothing, many of these disasters might well come to pass. But we DIDN'T do nothing. In most cases, technology saved us. 

Pollution? Who had ever heard of a "catalytic convertor" before 1973?

Gosh golly, them newfangled "water treatment plants" sure cleaned up a lot of rivers!

AIDS turned out to be more difficult to catch - as in more than just shaking hands.

The sky has yet to fall.


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