# 510 hacked?



## jbozzo

just got a 510 dvr but was told it cannot be hacked at this point. if anyone has hacked it please let me know how you did it. i don't understand because it is the same as a 501 or 508 just a bigger harddrive. PLEEAASSEE HELP!!


----------



## Bob Haller

Ahh you dont understand were paying subs here not thiefs!!! didnt read the possting guidelines?


----------



## Chris Blount

I have re-opened this thread because I wanted to get clarification on what you are asking. 

Are you talking about upgrading the hard drive in the 510?


----------



## DotCrawler

Bob Haller said:


> Ahh you dont understand were paying subs here not thiefs!!! didnt read the possting guidelines?


Who says he doesn't just want to upgrade the HD capacity. Immediately assuming the wrong thing... tsk tsk tsk... :eek2:


----------



## Bob Haller

I am sorry, perhaps it was me who started it


----------



## Lee L

And if the question is, can you expand the hard drive, the answer is no. Several people have tried to add larger drives to the 501, I think Claude (Metro25) even got one to work once, using a brand new 501 and a brand new 80 gig drive identical to the one in the 508, installing it before the 501 was powered up. He tried again and it did not work so it is certainly not repeatable.


----------



## Bob Haller

Since the datastream now carries software to support the 510s larger drive it might be possible. But you never know E could find a way to disable your box altogether at a future date.


----------



## Slordak

The 501 / 508 / 510 firmware contains a list of supported drive models. When the receiver software asks the drive (via the ATAPI / IDE protocol) to report its model, the drive does so, and the receiver therefore knows what drive is attached. In order to use a replacement drive, one of the exact drive models from the firmware must be used in the receiver; just any old 80gb drive will not work.

Another problem is that, just as how a smart card marries a receiver, the hard drive essentially marries the receiver (not exactly in the same way, but there is key information written to the drive). In order to get around this, the receiver may need to have "virgin" firmware. Since virgin firmware for a 501 or 508 doesn't know about 120gb drives, this is a definite issue. Of course, it may be possible to mirror the contents of a virgin drive that comes with a receiver to a larger drive and then activate the receiver with that drive, but... Who knows.


----------



## DotCrawler

Slordak said:


> The 501 / 508 / 510 firmware contains a list of supported drive models. When the receiver software asks the drive (via the ATAPI / IDE protocol) to report its model, the drive does so, and the receiver therefore knows what drive is attached. In order to use a replacement drive, one of the exact drive models from the firmware must be used in the receiver; just any old 80gb drive will not work.
> 
> Another problem is that, just as how a smart card marries a receiver, the hard drive essentially marries the receiver (not exactly in the same way, but there is key information written to the drive). In order to get around this, the receiver may need to have "virgin" firmware. Since virgin firmware for a 501 or 508 doesn't know about 120gb drives, this is a definite issue. Of course, it may be possible to mirror the contents of a virgin drive that comes with a receiver to a larger drive and then activate the receiver with that drive, but... Who knows.


You might be right. 
I'm thinking, you might be able to upgrade the 510 let's say from its native 120 GB to 180GB **IF** Dishnetwork would have such a model in the future. The key then would be to check an out of the box 510 with this 180GB hard drive in it and check what brand of model it is. Then you buy exactly the same drive for the 510 you want to upgrade. Clone the contents with a PC, the 120GB cloned to the 180 for example. And then install the 180Gb into the 510.

This is all speculation of course, since no larger capacity than 120GB exists in any production 510s....

Now if Dishnetwork goes to Linux on all receivers, we'll have to worry about permissions etc.. Although it's rather simple to clone a linux HD.

Hope this helps.
DC


----------



## Bob Haller

Are the E exact drives available on the open market or are they dish branded specially to prevent this sort of thing. I read somewhere a fellow did this and his 501 then showed it was a 510. I wonder aboiut PVR fees? Will such a 510 get its PVR disabled somehow?

I am just curious about this I wouldnt mess around its really not worth the risk.


----------



## JohnMI

They are not Dish branded -- although some of them are "OEM only" drives that are difficult to get (but not all of them -- you can find compatible drives on EBay and other sources on a regular basis).

As for upgrading to a 120GB drive in a 501 and having it be a 510 -- and wondering about fees -- it appears that the fees are based on the RID. Therefore, it should not affect anything. Then again, Dish could possibly do something in the future to report back (via the phone line, of course) which type of unit it is. If one that they thought was a 501 is suddenly a 510 -- they may do several things -- including voiding your warranty, charging you the DVR fee, and so on.

Upgrading something like a 501 to a 508 seems to be a fairly safe bet. Although, it still isn't a trivial process by any means.

- John...


----------



## P Smith

It was many times pointed here to dishmod/dishrip Yahoo groups, so I took my time for reading there; and found they are really know theyr procedures. At least, install 80 GB drive seems to me no big deal, if you have all the supplies .


----------



## David_Levin

yes, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dishmod/
and read... read... read...

The box must be loaded with virgin firmware so it can marry a new hard drive (virgin firmware for a 510 is available).

You have to get or build a jtag interface and reporgram the box via the pc (there a bit more to it then that - the downloaded image must be customized & checksummed before loading).

It's a scary procedure.

Thank you E* for makeing this proceedure so difficult. The 7200 (and TiVos), seem to do fine without forcing these types of locks. I don't even have my 921 yet, and am all ready drooling for a hard drive upgrade.


----------



## mugentuner

David_Levin said:


> yes, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dishmod/
> and read... read... read...
> 
> The box must be loaded with virgin firmware so it can marry a new hard drive (virgin firmware for a 510 is available).
> 
> You have to get or build a jtag interface and reporgram the box via the pc (there a bit more to it then that - the downloaded image must be customized & checksummed before loading).
> 
> It's a scary procedure.
> 
> Thank you E* for makeing this proceedure so difficult. The 7200 (and TiVos), seem to do fine without forcing these types of locks. I don't even have my 921 yet, and am all ready drooling for a hard drive upgrade.


Can the marrying of a new drive be done with a PvR 508 as well? My HD decided to go AWOL on me.


----------



## JohnMI

mugentuner said:


> Can the marrying of a new drive be done with a PvR 508 as well? My HD decided to go AWOL on me.


Yes. 501s and 508s can be married to replacement drives. It isn't trivial, but it can be done.

- John...


----------



## David_Levin

mugentuner said:


> Can the marrying of a new drive be done with a PvR 508 as well? My HD decided to go AWOL on me.


And, only specific hard drive models will work. These tend to be hard-to-find OEM drives. (try www.pricewatch.com) Problem is some vendors end up substituting "better" drives (like 7200 rpm).

Is your drive completely dead or just need a reformat (there are simpler recovery procedures)?

You can still plug the drive into a PC and run vendor diagnostics without reformatting.

(obviously, if your 508 is under warranty you should just call E*).

(funny how the original poster never returned - we can guess at his defintion for "hacked")


----------



## P Smith

Lee L said:


> And if the question is, can you expand the hard drive, the answer is no. Several people have tried to add larger drives to the 501, I think Claude (Metro25) even got one to work once, using a brand new 501 and a brand new 80 gig drive identical to the one in the 508, installing it before the 501 was powered up. He tried again and it did not work so it is certainly not repeatable.


It is short time window of opportunity - only factory status of PVR allowed to do this trick. After connecting to sat feed and downloading current software, the hole will closed  .


----------



## MikeW

Isn't it only $49.00 plus shipping to have a reciever repaired? Why buy a hard drive for around $80.00 and go through this hassle?


----------



## David_Levin

MikeW said:


> Isn't it only $49.00 plus shipping to have a reciever repaired? Why buy a hard drive for around $80.00 and go through this hassle?


Well, a 501 user might be looking to put in a bigger hard drive....


----------



## JohnMI

David_Levin said:


> And, only specific hard drive models will work. These tend to be hard-to-find OEM drives. (try www.pricewatch.com) Problem is some vendors end up substituting "better" drives (like 7200 rpm).


Actually, there are usually a half dozen or so of various models on EBay all the time now. They aren't really too difficult to locate these days.



> (obviously, if your 508 is under warranty you should just call E*).


Agreed -- and even if it isn't. Out-of-warranty repair is likely cheaper and certainly easier than replacing the HD. Since it is already an 80GB drive, it is probably better to go the repair/replacement route with Dish.

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

P Smith said:


> It is short time window of opportunity - only factory status of PVR allowed to do this trick. After connecting to sat feed and downloading current software, the hole will closed  .


That's not completely accurate. Lots of people that had 501s running for a long time have upgraded them to 80GB HDs (and, therefore, they pretty much become 508s). They certainly had all been already connected to the sat feed and were running current software.

Again, it isn't easy -- and requires some hardware even -- but it isn't impossible by any means.

- John...


----------



## AppliedAggression

I believe i read on the dishmod boards that if you upgrade the drive in a 501/508 to 120gb, it will then be recognized as a 510.

This brings me to, if you would get the $5 fee now? Well, how about picking up a 510 for $99, and downgrading it to a 508. Does that mean no VOD fee?


----------



## Mike123abc

AppliedAggression said:


> I believe i read on the dishmod boards that if you upgrade the drive in a 501/508 to 120gb, it will then be recognized as a 510.
> 
> This brings me to, if you would get the $5 fee now? Well, how about picking up a 510 for $99, and downgrading it to a 508. Does that mean no VOD fee?


The DVR fee is not a fee based on the the hard drive, it is based on the serial number of the reciever. If you have a 510 you have a 510 serial number, so Dish's billing computer automatically charges the fabulous VOD fee. Changing the harddrive will not change the serial number.


----------



## JohnMI

That is correct. Although, there has been some discussion that, technically, Dish should be able to send information identifying the unit as a 120GB/510 unit if connected to a phone line. We don't believe that they do -- but, it should be possible if they wanted to. So, no guarantees on what happens if you have it connected to a phone line in the future. Personally, I'm doubtful that they would ever check that.

On a side note, not all units can be upgraded to the 120GB drive -- even if you have the proper drive model. It does not work with all SmartCards. So, you might want to stick with 80GB for that reason also.

See the group for more details. I don't want this discussion to get into things that aren't allowed here.

- John...


----------



## Jacob S

If Dish says that they have to subsidize each satellite receiver then why would they go to this much trouble to prevent you from upgrading your own hard drive to make you purchase another subsidized DVR that would just end up costing them more money? Perhaps they are not subsidized after all, or they want to try to get the DVR fee on the new receivers that has the bigger hard drive.


----------



## David_Levin

Dish doesn't need to have a phone line to disable a 501/508 upgraded to 120 gig.

With new software on the box they could add code to the regular authorization stream that a 510 stops working if the PVR fee is not paid (a native 501 would never get the enable PVR stream, since the box now thinks it's a 510 it would stop working).

I certainly hope they don't do this. Echostar's policy on Hard Drive upgrades is VERY short sited. This is even more annoying for the $1000 921 with 23 hours of record time.


----------



## Bob Haller

They blamed people upgrading the hard drives for the dippy dishplayer troubles And as such decided to lock out that reason in the future Note it didnt cure the troubles with the later boxes

Just a note my 508s hard drive died last month./ We had services for it and boxed it up for its return pilgrnage to RMA land. The rep agreed to waive the $14.99 fee since I have had so many boxes die. All went well till today when the bill arrived. They charged me anyway. I called and disputed the charge. The first rep said no note on the account to waive fees sorry cant do a thing. I said I am going and buy direct today. Is there anything more I can do for you??? Give me a supervisor NOW. The super waived the fee after looking at how many boxes have churned thru here.

E reps who caeres attitude about stuff like this will come back to bite their churn numbers sooner or later.

I went on to tell the super E has become what I hated and left cable over.

Fees, Bugs and lack of core channel additions like goodlife TV.

I kinda wish charlie would sell out, any change today might be a improvement.

If Metro doesnt get ghis D dealership soon I am off to circuit city for D Tivos


----------



## HighPost

I got a question. What if you pulled the old hard drive out and then made a Nortons Ghost image of the drive and saved that image to a hard drive. Then went out and bought a 250 meg drive, put that Ghost image on the new 250 meg drive and put it in the reciever, would that not work?

I would, I mean if the drive is already set up and formatted the way dish wants it, it should just boot and run as normal. Does anyone see any flaw in my logic?


----------



## scooper

Yes - the BIOS on the 5xx will query the harddrive for what model it is. When it doesn't find one of the types that Dish has blessed, it's going to terminate the bootup. 

Feel free to try it for yourself and prove my theory wrong.


----------



## JohnMI

Actually, you can't even Ghost it. Ghost doesn't do a sector-by-sector copy -- it has to recognize the file system -- and it won't recognize the file system from those units. Therefore, using Ghost is out of the question.

That being said, even if you were able to do a sector-by-sector copy and put the same data on a new drive -- it wouldn't work for the reason that scooper said: it would be the wrong model ID and the firmware would see that.

- John...


----------



## Roger Tee

I think it's lower down than that. I believe that the drive is married to the receiver same as the smart card is. I'd bet that they marry the drive to the receiver via the drives model and serial number. They no match, receiver no work.

That would explain why to change a used receiver to a larger drive, IE 501 to 80Gb drive, the firmware has to be returned to as new, so it can marry to the drive before it downloads the new firmware, Which would also explain why Claude G. was able to do it with a new receiver the one time.

Cheers


----------



## P Smith

That's ridiculous, using Ghost and be lazy for check it's parameters ! Ghost DOES sector-by-sector copy. Period.


----------



## JohnMI

Roger Tee said:


> I think it's lower down than that. I believe that the drive is married to the receiver same as the smart card is.


Yes, it certainly is.



> I'd bet that they marry the drive to the receiver via the drives model and serial number. They no match, receiver no work.


It doesn't appear that the drive model is actually involved in the "marrying" ID, but we're not sure on that yet. It does involve the parameters of the drive. So, it MAY be possible to take a drive with similar parameters and have it's "married" stuff be identical. However, if it isn't a LISTED drive in the firmware, then it still would not work.



> That would explain why to change a used receiver to a larger drive, IE 501 to 80Gb drive, the firmware has to be returned to as new, so it can marry to the drive before it downloads the new firmware, Which would also explain why Claude G. was able to do it with a new receiver the one time.


Basically, to get the receiver to "marry" the drive in it -- you must start with the early firmware.

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

P Smith said:


> That's ridiculous, using Ghost and be lazy for check it's parameters ! Ghost DOES sector-by-sector copy. Period.


Ghost's default is certainly NOT a sector-by-sector copy. It does a FILE by FILE copy. This is why it must understand the filesystem.

According to what I have found, Ghost does NOT support a sector-by-sector file copy of an UNKNOWN or PROPRIETARY file system. This is why Ghost's requirements say that it MUST be one of these filesystems:

- All FAT 
- All NTFS 
- Linux EXT2/3

If it offered a blind sector-by-sector mode, then the filesystem would not be an issue.

I assure you that some extensive testing with Ghost and these drives has been done -- with no successful results so far.

If you want to direct me to the Ghost options that say they support a sector-by-sector mode, please do and I will give it a try. But just calling me LAZY, but not giving any more details than telling me that I'm wrong isn't helping any...

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

Note that, to be fair, Norton does support a "sector-by-sector" mode, but it is not what you think. It is NOT for doing ANY drive. In fact, you have to specific which TYPE of drive it is and then do the sector-by-sector copy! For example, the "Windows 2000 Dynamic partition" sector-by-sector copy is completely different than a "Windows NT NTFS" sector-by-sector copy -- which is completely different than a "Linux EXT" sector-by-sector copy. Norton also states that, if you use the sector-by-sector mode, then the source and destinations drives MUST be absolutely identical! They have to be the same drive parameters!

That, we've been able to do forever -- it is possible to replace a drive with the exact same drive without going to an early firmware. We've said that repeatedly. But, you can certainly do that without Ghost (and whether or not you could do it with Ghost is still doubtful). You basically only need to copy 3 sectors and you are done.

My point being, of course, that Ghost still does you no good here. My original statement is still correct: Ghost needs to understand the filesystem to copy it. Because it doesn't have a real, blind sector-by-sector mode. Period. It can do some sector-by-sector stuff, but only of known filesystem types and only to an identical drive.

- John...


----------



## P Smith

You are totally wrong, but defenitly not lazy ( sorry if offeneded ). Ghost is versatile program and have much more features what you mention. Keep digging and you'll find the parameter, what allowed to make sector-by-sector copy ANY disk regardless of organization data on it. Actually, the parameter was posted here or at Yahoo group.


----------



## JohnMI

P Smith said:


> You are totally wrong,


Well, I'm just going by repeated actual testing plus searching through the manual repeatedly after you mentioned it...



> Ghost is versatile program and have much more features what you mention. Keep digging and you'll find the parameter,


Um, I've dug. Repeatedly. How about you direct me to the parameter that allows a blind sector-by-sector copy of an unknown filesystem?

Of course, please don't say any of these, since, according to Norton/Symantec, they are filesystem specific and intended for indentical drives only:

-ia (for Windows 2000 dynamic disks only)
-ial (for Linux EXT2/3 disks only)



> what allowed to make sector-by-sector copy ANY disk regardless of organization data on it. Actually, the parameter was posted here or at Yahoo group.


Now, again, it WILL do a sector-by-sector copy if going to a drive of the same exact parameters -- but that really does no good related to this discussion! But, yes, technically, Ghost can do an exact clone of pretty much any filesystem provided that you are going to the exact model of drive. It will NOT do a sector-by-sector copy to a drive with different parameters nor can it resize a drive during cloning if doing a sector-by-sector copy.

Therefore, it is fairly useless as far as this discussion goes! The only use it would have would be making an exact duplicate of an existing disk to the exact same model number drive. In which case, there are certainly easier ways to do that instead of using Ghost!

- John...


----------



## P Smith

Well, after rereading the whole thread I'm confess: using Ghost program will not help HighPost make upgrade his PVR's HDD to 250 GB, as we all know PVR501,508 and DVR510 accept only 40,80 or 120 GB certain models.

Just in case - the parameter is '-ir'.


----------



## JohnMI

P Smith said:


> Well, after rereading the whole thread I'm confess: using Ghost program will not help HighPost make upgrade his PVR's HDD to 250 GB, as we all know PVR501,508 and DVR510 accept only 40,80 or 120 GB certain models.


No, there is more to it than that. Ghost will also not help anyone upgrade from a smaller drive to a larger drive either! So, if it has a 501 now, it will NOT help him upgrade to an 80GB or 120GB drive -- even if it is one of the ones on the accepted list! Ghost simply won't help here!



> Just in case - the parameter is '-ir'.


As I said above, "-ir" is clearly documented as being for Windows 2000 Dynamic disks only. The instructions are very explicit in stating that the "-ir" switch can only be used for cloning identical disks. Do you understand that?

- John...


----------



## P Smith

I had to use Ghost (before W2K) with the parameter, that was v6 or v7; works fine (if know what you want). Sure, that was not PVR but IS&T job.


----------



## JohnMI

Yes, as I've said way too many times now: Ghost does have a sector-by-sector mode for known partition types. It does not have a blind sector-by-sector mode that would work for trying to change to a different hard drive in one of these Dish DVR units.

Are we clear on that now? That Ghost won't help with anything related to this at all unless the person wanted to replace a drive with an identical duplicate for some reason? It won't help upgrade to anything larger/different.

- John...


----------



## P Smith

Yes, we're clear now  - but I'm not agree with the sentence "Ghost does have a sector-by-sector mode for known partition types" - the feature works REGARDLESS partition types ! 
So, I'm stay firm with "Ghost does have a sector-by-sector mode for ANY partition types".


----------



## JohnMI

P Smith said:


> Yes, we're clear now  - but I'm not agree with the sentence "Ghost does have a sector-by-sector mode for known partition types" - the feature works REGARDLESS partition types !
> So, I'm stay firm with "Ghost does have a sector-by-sector mode for ANY partition types".


No -- it doesn't -- at least, not one that will copy to a different disk! Clearly documented by Norton, the "-ir" switch is intended for known partition types -- but will WORK for any partition AS LONG AS THE SOURCE AND DESTINATION DISKS ARE THE SAME! Therefore, it has no real purpose as far as this thread is concerned!

It does have a sector-by-sector mode -- but it is VERY limited. It won't do a blind sector-by-sector copy from one disk to anything except an identical disk.

- John...


----------



## P Smith

Well, for final point in the off-topic discussion I would quote original manual for you:
" *-ir*
Image row.Copies the entire disk, ignoring the partition table. This is useful when a disk does not contain a partition table in the standard PC format, or you do not want partitions to be realigned to track boundaries on the destination disk. Some operation systems may not be able to access unaligned partitions. Partitions cannot be resized on restore and you need an identical or larger disk".

I think we will stop at this point.

Note: underlined by myself for clearing the dispute.


----------



## JohnMI

Um -- exactly! "Partitions CANNOT BE RESIZED ON RESTORE." You need an identical or larger disk so that it fits because it cannot adjust anything! It dumps it IDENTICALLY -- meaning that even if you used a LARGER DISK, you would not SEE any of the larger portion!

So, if you read a 40GB disk and wrote it to an 80GB disk, it would still only be a 40GB partition/space on the 80GB drive!

Note that this is just slightly changed wording from the manual that I was reading -- I assume yours is from 2003 -- mine was from Ghost 2002.

They've basically changed the wording a bit -- realizing that, technically, you could put a larger drive in there -- but it isn't USING it as a larger drive! It is just dumping it back out as a 40GB drive.

Therefore, as I said, Ghost is still fairly useless when related to this! It will NOT do what would be needed (even if there were no "marriage" issues to also deal with): which is do a blind read of a smaller drive and write it to a larger one (and then have that extra space be available, of course). You'd still just have the same 40GB of space!

Plus, again, to be clear: it wouldn't work even if Ghost COULD do it -- since the drive is "married" to the receiver along with the partitioning information.

- John...


----------



## P Smith

You draw so many fine requirements for future PVR Disk Doctor  - now we need to find other 'Peter Norton' for write it  . 

Since you know too much about internal features of the PVR disks, may be it will be you ?!


----------



## JohnMI

heh. To be honest, I'd love to be able to write to the replacement disk. Unfortunately, at this point, we don't know enough about it. It'd be great to be able to upgrade to a larger disk AND be able to put your existing programs back onto that new disk. It just isn't feasible at this point -- and isn't a big enough deal to put a lot of work into. That is why pretty much "the" way to do it is to put in the empty disk and let the DVR set it up properly itself...

- John...


----------



## ClaudeR

Excellent thread, thanks. I use ghost a lot, and wondered about this.


----------



## JohnMI

Indeed -- I also use Ghost a great deal -- it is some excellent software. It just isn't any good for doing anything with the DVR disks really...

- John...


----------



## stonecold

You are all mixed up all of you here are the facts on the 510

A. The HD is married to the reciver in two ways. 
1. Ther IRD Serial number and Boxkeys ( a hidden serial like number hidden in the recivers firmware and is unquie to each reciver is written on the first sectors of the drive)
2. Dish Network has put on a locking method that is part of the IDE protocol. While you will never probably ever see this option in workstation grade computer higher end server usually have this option. you set a key and the key on the hd and the key you set on the bios have to be the same or the drive will not allow read/write acces to the drive. Microsoft Xbox Video game console does the same thing to there drives. That is also why you need to modchip an xbox to install a larger drive as it by passes the ide lock software in the ms bios. 

So even if the drive was on one of Dishnetworks bless list as being a drive used it still would not matter. 

There is a way of upgrading the drive in 510 But it invloves using tools of the hacking trade. Baiscly put the ide lock keys are hidden in the recivers firmware so is the special dn hdlist model numbers if you were able to get the firmware on your computer and edit it you can pull the ide lock keys plus actually editthe list of blessed dn drives to include what ever model number of hd you had bought. Only one problem . while the ide lock key is not in area of the firmware that gets rewritten during software upgrades the hdlist is... so everytime dish spools a new software upgrade you would have to disect it and put your model of hd back in the list and write it back to the reciver. 

I will not tell anyone what is needed or what to do .... But just know it has been done and it is possible.


----------



## JohnMI

stonecold said:


> You are all mixed up all of you here are the facts on the 510


Um, I'm not convinced it is us... 



> 2. Dish Network has put on a locking method that is part of the IDE protocol. While you will never probably ever see this option in workstation grade computer higher end server usually have this option. you set a key and the key on the hd and the key you set on the bios have to be the same or the drive will not allow read/write acces to the drive.


Um, this simply isn't the case. Either that, or the early firmware actually puts this "key" on the hard drive -- which I don't think is taking place.



> So even if the drive was on one of Dishnetworks bless list as being a drive used it still would not matter.


If it is on the list, then you can make it work. The drive needs to be empty when you start -- you don't put any "key" in it. 



> There is a way of upgrading the drive in 510 But it invloves using tools of the hacking trade. Baiscly put the ide lock keys are hidden in the recivers firmware so is the special dn hdlist model numbers if you were able to get the firmware on your computer and edit it you can pull the ide lock keys plus actually editthe list of blessed dn drives to include what ever model number of hd you had bought.


Um, no. That isn't how it works. To put in a different drive you DOWNGRADE the IRD to an earlier firmware that will format empty/new drives. You put an empty drive in there -- which has no "special keys" on it -- and the IRD prepares it for usage.

There is no pulling any data from the firmware of the IRD and putting said data into the drive before installation, sorry.



> Only one problem . while the ide lock key is not in area of the firmware that gets rewritten during software upgrades the hdlist is... so everytime dish spools a new software upgrade you would have to disect it and put your model of hd back in the list and write it back to the reciver.


Um -- nope. That simply isn't the case. My 501 upgraded to an 80GB/508 takes new software upgrades just fine, thanks.

Now, if you use a drive that is NOT in the list, then you used to be able to "fake it" and would have to "fake it again" which each new firmware upgrade. However, Dish put a stop to that with a new checksum within the firmware -- preventing the faking. So, now, you either MUST use a drive from the approved list -- or you can only run an older firmware.



> I will not tell anyone what is needed or what to do .... But just know it has been done and it is possible.


Yes, it has been done and is possible -- it just isn't done as you suggest. 

- John...


----------



## stonecold

I was talking about a 510 which is different. 

I have a 501 and have done the same as you. I have the software for the 510 that you put in your boxkeys your ird number and the ide lock key and it prepares the boot sector. 510 just because it says 510 does not mean it like the 501 or the 508. Since I got introuble last time with posting what some might call pirating information I but if you dump your firmware with jkeys and then dump it in a hex editor like winhex on a 510 i can tell you what memory segments to look for. This was all well documented at the once great innermatrix before dishnetwork took them down. The 510 was the first to use the IDE lock protocol. It also seems that my 721 uses it too.... Unlike you I actually have a 510 actually I have 4 510s now 1 only works but that is because the other 3 were gennapigs for 3rd party after market modifications and tracing of leads to the find the DQ1 DQ4 lines


----------



## JohnMI

So then -- is all of this 510 stuff being done simply due to drive failures? I mean, you currently can't go to a LARGER drive in the 510 -- with any method -- so I don't see the significant point of doing such things with a 510.

If the drive died, it would be cheaper to have Dish fix it in most cases than to buy a replacement 120GB drive and do any "hacking" to it, correct?

- John...


----------



## P Smith

stonecold,

according other group to what was pointed many time here, you need spend some time reading there. Your theoretical 'exercise' above look overhelmed by your own thoughts and don't reflect real world of PVR/DVR.  Nice try.


----------

