# ASK DBSTalk: How to set up the 921?



## abdulaldu (Jan 27, 2004)

I got my dvr 921 yesterday it is not working good . The Tec at dishnetwork said it needs to be connected to the two tuners . is that true . I got it running for a while on one tuner but the signal kept cutting off . Anyway I called some one to come and draw another line from the dish . But the problem is that I tried to run an Rf output to the TV next room ,, almost 13 Ft , it did not work . Same with the composite Video output I did not get a signal to the other room . Is the unit damage or is it the nature of the dvr 921 ..!!


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

First, you need to read your User's Manual.

For one thing, the 921 will output SD or HD, but NOT both at the same time.

To get it to boot up and run, it MUST repeat MUST have feeds to both tuners, and those feeds must be absolutely identical configurations.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

What Simon said is correct. You must have both tuners connected and seeing exactly the same satellites. And, to see a signal through the composite or RF video out, you must have your 921 in SD (480i) mode. There is no signal sent over the SD connections if the 921 is in HD mode.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Mark ,does 921 have the same issue with a dishpro quad as the 721? Will it take the initial software update with a quad or does it need a twin ?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I don't know of any issues with the 921 not taking the initial software download from a DP quad.


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## dishguy (Feb 7, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> First, you need to read your User's Manual.
> 
> For one thing, the 921 will output SD or HD, but NOT both at the same time.
> 
> To get it to boot up and run, it MUST repeat MUST have feeds to both tuners, and those feeds must be absolutely identical configurations.


OK, so I'm a little confused on the "it MUST have both feeds". I have another thread open, where my 921 now is only seeing 1 feed via a DP-34 switch, and boots up fine and shows programming. I performed a power off reset in this configuration. The check dish only indicates that the Sat 1 input is connected, I just for now ignore the various messages. Is my 921 really seeing the second input, despite what check switch is saying?
Thanks,


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

If you don't have a cable run going into Sat2 from your Dish 500 (and it appears you don't) your not going to get your 921 to function properly at all.


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## dishguy (Feb 7, 2004)

ibglowin said:


> If you don't have a cable run going into Sat2 from your Dish 500 (and it appears you don't) your not going to get your 921 to function properly at all.


There is a cable running into the 2nd input from a DP-34 switch, though the 921 receiver is not seeing it and reporting only 1 connection. The 921 has been working OK for the past 3 days in this configuration, but haven't had any situations requiring the two tuners simultaneously in these 3 days. It seems the 921 can in a limited way operate on a single input, at least that's what mine appears to be doing


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Trust us when we tell you you will have problems if your check switch indicates only one tuner is working.

Make sure each of your feeds from the dish switch is working. Swap them if necessary for test purposes to see if each cable is delivering a signal on channel 101. Once you verify each has some signal, connect both up.

Now, power button off the 921. Then unplug the 921 for 3 minutes or more. Plug it back in and allow the 921 to boot. May take 5 minutes on a fully installed 921 and much much longer if you need to download your first software release (L184).

You may need to hit the power button to turn it on after the boot cycle ends. 

Now do another check switch and see if both inputs have the same symetry. 

Note- anytime you swap the cables or make some antenna change you must redo a check switch, preferably after you first reboot with the long power plug time.


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## fisherman (Feb 21, 2004)

The "two feeds" advice passed around here is incorrect for day to day operation. I've been running off a single feed for a few days as roofers have done something evil to my cabling on the roof (and I am not touching it until they are done). My 921 is operating normally with a few oddities (takes longer to get guide data).

For new software loads, perhaps this is true (but I am betting this is speculation) but I wish people here did not speak so authoritatively without really knowing the facts. I've seen this both on this issue and the myriad of superstition around proper ways to reboot the device and it only muddies up the issues.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

fisherman said:


> The "two feeds" advice passed around here is incorrect for day to day operation. I've been running off a single feed for a few days as roofers have done something evil to my cabling on the roof (and I am not touching it until they are done). My 921 is operating normally with a few oddities (takes longer to get guide data).


You are running off of one feed, I'm guessing you verified this with the check switch menu.

I'm curious about the sequence of events. Have you done a reboot since loosing one of your antenna feeds? Was the 921 on or off when you lost your feed?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

fisherman - if you end up having to do a reboot, you will lose operation with your 921. That was my experience when I tested it. And you cannot get past the check switch procedure with only one feed connected. To get past that, you must have both feeds connected.


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## dishguy (Feb 7, 2004)

OK. I solved my problem with my 921. When I connected my DP34 switch in the sytem, one of the cables had too short a center conductor. Worked fine with the straight through grounding block, but with the weatherproof insulation on the DP34, didn't make contact on one of the cables. I put a new connector with a longer center conductor, and everything is now showing OK with check switch and both receiver inputs. This is why mine always failed checkswitch on the second sat input. I can say without any doubt that my 921 was operating on 1 satellite input for 3 days, with my having done numerous power off reboots, etc. Was able to get guide data and watch shows, record, etc. Again, this is actual operation off 1 input cable, not guesses. Now what would happen long term with only 1 input I don't know, but for the past 3 days, no issues. Perhaps one of the software revisions changed this behavior from the original case.

The key with check switch is to ignore the messages and just cancel out, which I did when I was on a single input after a power off reboot.


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## abdulaldu (Jan 27, 2004)

Thanks Mark 
I pushed the SD button and I got Tv on the composite , but it turn BLANK in the living room ...!! Is there is a way to get enjoy both output ..??


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

abdulaldu said:


> Thanks Mark
> I pushed the SD button and I got Tv on the composite , but it turn BLANK in the living room ...!! Is there is a way to get enjoy both output ..??


Sorry, no. You get EITHER SD or HD at one time - not both.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

abdulaldu said:


> Thanks Mark
> I pushed the SD button and I got Tv on the composite , but it turn BLANK in the living room ...!! Is there is a way to get enjoy both output ..??


What Simon said. The hardware in the 921 does not support outputting both HD and SD at the same time. It's one or the other only.


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## roblewis (Jun 22, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> fisherman - if you end up having to do a reboot, you will lose operation with your 921. That was my experience when I tested it. And you cannot get past the check switch procedure with only one feed connected. To get past that, you must have both feeds connected.


Mark,

dishguy is right.

I recently received my 921, set it up, downloaded the latest software, and have been using it all on one feed. I can view all channels, and record in SD and HD, as well as play back recorded events. However, I am aware that I open myself to all kinds of problems with hangs / reboots, etc (maybe even more so than normal). Secondly, any functions requiring both tuners will fail, requiring another "check switch" at best, and reboot at worst.

Despite what others have said, here and elsewhere, the 921 can be run using one feed. Clearly, the product was not designed to operate that way, but it does work (in a limited sort of way). If another user has a 921 and is, like me, waiting for the second feed to be installed, I would advise that user to go for it. That is the information that I have based on my experience.

- Rob


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

You know guys, you can get a car to run still if you pull a spark plug wire off. It just runs like a POS.

The 921 is no different.


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## roblewis (Jun 22, 2004)

ibglowin said:


> you can get a car to run still if you pull a spark plug wire off. It just runs like a POS.


Exactly! Which is why it irritates me when people say it CAN'T be used on one feed and it MUST have two feeds. That's not true. Of course I'm going to install a second feed, but I don't want to wait. I prefer to have the POS in HD than no POS at all. I am an impatient gadget freak. Is that so hard to understand?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, technically the 921 will offer a picture and even do recording with one sat feed connected. This is essentially a true statement. But, over time you will begin to lose channels, first they will go red in the guide and then begin to drop off altogether. In April, I was doing some "experimenting" with trying to figure out the best way for me to share my 61.5 Dish with a VOOM receiver and Dish systems (921 and 6000) In the process I tested the single 921 feed and at first there seemed to be no problem, a few days later some of my channels were lost in the red. Later they were gone altogether. A week of this was enough so I had to put both feeds back, reboot and check switch to develop symetrical tuner feeds. The result was all channels and proper operation returned.

The way it was explained to me was that the two tuners must be free to switch back and forth on their own for you to change channels during a recording. No single channel has a monopoly on the tuner. If you try to move the 921 during a record session it may cause the 921 to lock up. Remember there are a possible 3 recordings taking place, two scheduled and one buffer always on. In any event, at minimum one recording is happening at all times. 

Bottom line is you CAN get picture and sound and record what's there for awhile. But, you need to understand that the 921 was not designed to work with one sat connection and is not a supported method. Therefore until you at least use the 921 in a way that it was designed to be used, reporting any issues and problems can summarily be ignored. It must be assumed that problems you may have with 921 operation are generated by not connecting your 921 to a proper dish - switch circuit as specified. In otherwords- your on your own (YOYO) as the first advice with any issue would be to Connect your 921 in accordance with its design.


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## roblewis (Jun 22, 2004)

Don,

I agree with everything you said. And it is materially different than what Mark said. I'm just trying to put out the correct information for others who may wish to know it. Thank you for clarifying your experience; it was helpful.

- Rob



DonLandis said:


> OK, technically the 921 will offer a picture and even do recording with one sat feed connected. This is essentially a true statement. But, over time you will begin to lose channels, first they will go red in the guide and then begin to drop off altogether. In April, I was doing some "experimenting" with trying to figure out the best way for me to share my 61.5 Dish with a VOOM receiver and Dish systems (921 and 6000) In the process I tested the single 921 feed and at first there seemed to be no problem, a few days later some of my channels were lost in the red. Later they were gone altogether. A week of this was enough so I had to put both feeds back, reboot and check switch to develop symetrical tuner feeds. The result was all channels and proper operation returned.
> 
> The way it was explained to me was that the two tuners must be free to switch back and forth on their own for you to change channels during a recording. No single channel has a monopoly on the tuner. If you try to move the 921 during a record session it may cause the 921 to lock up. Remember there are a possible 3 recordings taking place, two scheduled and one buffer always on. In any event, at minimum one recording is happening at all times.
> 
> Bottom line is you CAN get picture and sound and record what's there for awhile. But, you need to understand that the 921 was not designed to work with one sat connection and is not a supported method. Therefore until you at least use the 921 in a way that it was designed to be used, reporting any issues and problems can summarily be ignored. It must be assumed that problems you may have with 921 operation are generated by not connecting your 921 to a proper dish - switch circuit as specified. In otherwords- your on your own (YOYO) as the first advice with any issue would be to Connect your 921 in accordance with its design.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Yes, Rob. But you have to understand that Mark and I as well as most on this forum are interested in what works for operation by people who want to enjoy the 921, not for "impatient gadget freaks" that have a goal to just see if something reacts to their impatients. In my "experimenting" I was looking for ways to get the dual feeds functional while extracting a single 61.5 _switchable_ feed for VOOM. Consequently, my goal was not to prove the 921 was functional with one feed. I knew it would not be. That was just a result of one experiment that did not work!


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Remember there are a possible 3 recordings taking place, two scheduled and one buffer always on.


I believe this is incorrect. You can have two recordings and one playback at a time.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Obviously something in the check switch procedure changed since the beginning. Back in December and early January, if you connected only one feed to the 921 and tried to run a check switch, it would fail and you had no opportunity to cancel out of it. Your only recourse was to reboot the 921 and try again. I haven't tested it again since then, but obviously (now) they cleaned it up somewhat.

So, I'll rephrase my statements on this: I would highly recommend that you not attempt to run your 921 with only one feed connected because you will (whether it be in 1 day or several days) run into problems. The 921 cannot function normally with only one satellite feed connected. Apparantly it can be done in a limited fashion on a very temporary basis, but anyone thinking that they'll be able to do it on a permanent basis better have their head examined.


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## fisherman (Feb 21, 2004)

What is this "limited fashion" everyone keeps referring to? Aside from slowness on retrieval of guide data (seems to happen when I look at the guide rather than offline) and inability to, say, use two tuners at once, the unit operates normally. I confirmed this via check switch.

Reading Don's, Mark's, or ibglowin's comments across this or other threads one might expect the box to catch fire if a feed is unplugged. Not to mention the perils mentioned here of using the power button as a reboot mechanism. This box is a PC, though a crappy one. Don't shed logic and reason just because a manual or an uneducated (on these topics) technical support representative tries to do the same.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No logic being shed here. You obviously ignored the word "normally" that I used. The 921 will not work normally unless both tuners are connected. Of the almost 3000 "states" the 921 can be in, more than 1000 of them require both tuners to be connected and available for normal operation. Will all of them fail of both tuners aren't available? No, but some of them absolutely will. And unless you are either very careful what you do, or are very lucky, you will do something that will crash the 921 if you've only got one tuner connected. It certainly isn't going to catch fire, or something else equally as rediculous as that. But it's not going to work normally or properly either all of the time.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Bogney-

My error, 2 recordings is correct. Can't watch OTA while 2 sats are recording. Only watch a prerecorded channel.


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## roblewis (Jun 22, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Apparantly it can be done in a limited fashion on a very temporary basis, but anyone thinking that they'll be able to do it on a permanent basis better have their head examined.


I completely agree!


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## DishBoy (Oct 22, 2003)

OK guys, Some say it must have both antenna inputs connected, other say it can work with only one antenna connected. Now I have a good one for all of you.

Can it works without any antenna input connected? Hey, hey, woo, woo,... Calm down, this is not a joke! and I am not a moron, believe me. I know why I asked this question and it have a very interesting purpose.

I have a HDTV presentation conference. It is not practical to install a Dish antenna on the building for a 30 minutes presentation. So I recorded some good HD programs on the hard drive so I can play them on the presentation. But as all of you know, I can't get any picture out of the 921. I manage to get the small picture on the menu screen but not a full HD screen. Just a black screen with sound is all I get.

Unlike the good old 501 and 508 who can play hard drive recorded programs without a single glitch all day long without the need for an antenna input, this 921 is as stubborn as a mule and refuses to play anything without the antenna inputs.

Could there is a way or procedure to fool it and get it playing the DVR programs?

Any help will greatly apreciated.

Thanks
DishBoy


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

I imagine it is POSSIBLE, as the folks at Eldon don't have access to our satellites, so they must simulate the sat signals somehow. Getting them to reveal how would be an entirely different story, however. With the sky full of satellites, and getting fuller by the day, there is undobtedly some sort of ID string transmitted with the signal for the receiver to lock onto. The nature of that string is probably a closely guarded secret to prevent signal piracy.

-Chris


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## DishBoy (Oct 22, 2003)

This is good!

I asked a question... now I answer it.

After getting tired of booting and re-booting with the 2 1/2 minutes power unplug procedure, I found the way.

After the 2 1/2 minutes, plug it back. Leave it unattended for about 15 minutes more. Then power it on. Leave it unattended for 5 minutes then select the HD output. Now it should show some channel info. Then press the DVR buttom and select the recorded program. PRESTO, it worked after almost half an hour of plugging it on. 

WELCOME TO THE VACUUM TUBE ERA AGAIN!!!!


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