# Message from DirecTV about HD MPEG 2 to MPEG 4 transition



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Got this from DirecTV:

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Customers with HD DNS channels will start to see crawls on their HD DNS channels starting Wednesday. These are intended to communicate to MPEG2 customers the urgency of them needing to switch out their MPEG2 hardware to MPEG4 hardware.

The crawls will appear at the top of each hour initially and may be throttled up depending on how many customers react and how quickly.

The crawl will have a message something like this "THIS CHANNEL WILL BE MOVING. PLEASE TUNE TO CHANNEL 85 FOR MORE INFORMATION."

It will direct customers to channel 85 which will explain the need for a 5 LNB dish, and a MPEG4 HD receiver.

The slide will ask customers to view:
New Lineup:
CBSWHD - Channel 391
NBCWHD - Channel 393
ABCWHD - Channel 397
FOXWHD - Channel 399

If the customer receives an error message or searching for satellite, they will need to call for the upgrade.

*The message is directed for customers in the Western Half of the United States right now in order to migrate these folks to MPEG4 and reclaim that MPEG2 bandwidth.*


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Kudos DirecTV, you have to start somewhere.

Thanks for the information Chris.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Since those receiving the HD DNS feeds are a small subset of those with legacy HD equipment, it makes sense to start the push there.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

say-what said:


> Since those receiving the HD DNS feeds are a small subset of those with legacy HD equipment, it makes sense to start the push there.


Agree.

Any word on when they plan to notify the Sunday Ticket subs as I expect they're next? After the Eastern DNS region of course.


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## meller (Oct 4, 2007)

does this mean that these channels well be moving to the 390's for everyone?

Thanks


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

meller said:


> does this mean that these channels well be moving to the 390's for everyone?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, all DNS channels will be moving to a conus MPEG4 transponder on 103b(103c on some receivers).


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## meller (Oct 4, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Yes, all DNS channels will be moving to a conus MPEG4 transponder on 103b(103c on some receivers).


Thanks........................


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

meller said:


> does this mean that these channels well be moving to the 390's for everyone?
> 
> Thanks


This only applies to people that live in areas NOT covered by locals in HD and that currently get ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in HD on the channels located in the 80's. Not a dumb question at all.

You're SF locals are on 2, 4, 5, 7, 11, etc... Those do not change.


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## bigmouthindc (Jul 15, 2005)

Urgency? what ever they did last week has rendered my box useless NOW. 

I wish I could see a crawl. I was getting the mpeg2 -HD channels just fine. When the guide data disappeared on my LG LSS-3200A I hit the reset button and now I can't even get the box to set the channels. 

What ever you do, don't disconnect the power or hit the reset button on any of the older HD boxes.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bigmouthindc said:


> Urgency? what ever they did last week has rendered my box useless NOW.
> 
> I wish I could see a crawl. I was getting the mpeg2 -HD channels just fine. When the guide data disappeared on my LG LSS-3200A I hit the reset button and now I can't even get the box to set the channels.
> 
> What ever you do, don't disconnect the power or hit the reset button on any of the older HD boxes.


That is different, and unrelated to this.... It is a guide data issue... that DirecTV is working on.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm glad DIRECTV is being proactive on this ... Good move.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Should this be a sticky for now?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tfederov said:


> Should this be a sticky for now?


Good idea


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## bigmouthindc (Jul 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> That is different, and unrelated to this.... It is a guide data issue... that DirecTV is working on.


OK, I can appreciate that, but any of us still holding on to our mpeg2 HD equipment need to get with the program. Suppose I'm going to have to get rid of my bell bottom jeans too.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Nice!


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Any word on when they plan to notify the Sunday Ticket subs as I expect they're next? After the Eastern DNS region of course.


Would expect that D11 needs to be in orbit before 100% confirmation of NFL ST in MPEG4 ...


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Would expect that D11 needs to be in orbit before 100% confirmation of NFL ST in MPEG4 ...


Ah yes, D11 is still on the ground?

Forgot about it. It's like the "red headed step child" of the DirecTV fleet.


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## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

So when does the channels in the 390's start? I assume they are the MPEG4 versions of the channels in the 80's.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

bigmouthindc said:


> Supposed I'm going to have to get rid of my bell bottom jeans too.


Can I have your Wishbone Ash 8-tracks?


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## GP_23 (Sep 13, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> Got this from DirecTV:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. Chris! I have had all the new equipment since the launch and I have just got the phone call stating that I needed to upgrade my equipment to see the new HD!


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Ah yes, D11 is still on the ground?
> 
> Forgot about it. It's like the "red headed step child" of the DirecTV fleet.


Yep, D11 sittin in California awaiting Sea Launch to launch Thuraya 3 satellite tomorrow ... then ~60 days to D11 launch ... then about 30-60 days until D11 "live" ...


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I'm on the east coast, so any idea when they will start this for us?

And, I assume that the 39x channels will go live before the 8xs go dark. 

I have the HR20 so I'm set, but I like having the HR10 for recording conflicted HD. Guess I may have to work a deal with my HR10 for an HR2x when that time comes.


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## ktabel01 (Aug 19, 2006)

Fine, now get your MDU customers their hardware, yesterday.


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## doctrsnoop (Nov 20, 2007)

Glad I sold my HR10 a few weeks ago


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## Pinion413 (Oct 21, 2007)

Cool. Let the transition begin.

Any idea if they are going to mirror the MPEG2 feeds to the 390's for the time being, like they did with HD Theater, TNT, ESPN, etc?


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

jdspencer said:


> I'm on the east coast, so any idea when they will start this for us?
> 
> And, I assume that the 39x channels will go live before the 8xs go dark.
> 
> I have the HR20 so I'm set, but I like having the HR10 for recording conflicted HD. Guess I may have to work a deal with my HR10 for an HR2x when that time comes.


_Will i still be able to use my HR 10 for the SD East coast locals on 380,382 ,384, 386 ?_


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

ub1934 said:


> _Will i still be able to use my HR 10 for the SD East coast locals on 380,382 ,384, 386 ?_


Good question. I'd say yes, since it's the HD bandwidth that DirecTV wants to recover.


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## mightythor88 (Sep 22, 2007)

since I get 386 (NYSD)and 387(LASD) along w. 87(LAHD) currently does that mean I will get the NY feed in HD once those migrate also since there should only be 1 channel offered?


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Hopefully they wont try to showcase some shows that comes on next or later in the week during this crawl.


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## mightythor88 (Sep 22, 2007)

I do have 1 HR10-250 though still along with 1 HR20, I wish they would hold off on this migration until the AM-21 is available as I keep reskedding the upgrade of my last tivo with the hope of waiting until the end of February so when I get an HR21 I can immed. get the AM21 for OTA HD locals in Bakersfield.


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## GeorgeLV (Jan 1, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Would expect that D11 needs to be in orbit before 100% confirmation of NFL ST in MPEG4 ...


That doesn't make very much sense. If for some reason there is a delay in launching D11, it would be even more vital to convert it to mpeg4.

FYI (since this is a common point of confusion), there is no such thing as an mpeg4 satellite. DirecTV can provide mpeg4 service from any satellite in their fleet.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

bigmouthindc said:


> OK, I can appreciate that, but any of us still holding on to our mpeg2 HD equipment need to get with the program. Supposed I'm going to have to get rid of my bell bottom jeans too.


And the corduroy pants.

bob


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## DBSNewbie (Nov 3, 2007)

Once the 80's (HD DNS MPEG2), 70's (Original MPEG2 HD Channels), and 90's (PPV and RSN MPEG2 Channels) are transitioned over to MPEG4, any idea on what those vacated channel slots 70-99, will be replaced with, if at all?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

GeorgeLV said:


> That doesn't make very much sense. If for some reason there is a delay in launching D11, it would be even more vital to convert it to mpeg4.
> 
> FYI (since this is a common point of confusion), there is no such thing as an mpeg4 satellite. DirecTV can provide mpeg4 service from any satellite in their fleet.


The only satellites transmitting in MPEG4 format today are Spaceway 1, Spaceway 2, and DirecTV-10. All are being used for HD. MPEG4 HD.

DirecTV-11 will hopefully launch in the next 60 days or so, depending on the launch of Thuraya 3 by Sea Launch tomorrow.

When we talk about NFL Sunday Ticket going "MPEG4", we are referring to the transmitting of the NFL ST games from the Conus transponders on D10 or D11, most likely D11.

Transmitting from D10 or D11 would provide significant bandwidth and much better clarity.

I've not seen any plans announced or hinted at to convert any other satellite to MPEG4.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Pinion413 said:


> Cool. Let the transition begin.
> 
> Any idea if they are going to mirror the MPEG2 feeds to the 390's for the time being, like they did with HD Theater, TNT, ESPN, etc?


TNTHD(245), ESPNHD(206), and HD Theater are not mirrored feeds. They are virtual channels, not using additional bandwidth. They are there to start to get everyone used to where they will be when they put an HD mpeg4 version of the channel up there.

I think they already announced that you have to have a mpeg4 HD reciever and 5LNB dish to get HD Sunday Ticket for next year. All 2008 season HD sports packages require it.

Hopefully they will do the east coast next.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

DBSNewbie said:


> Once the 80's (HD DNS MPEG2), 70's (Original MPEG2 HD Channels), and 90's (PPV and RSN MPEG2 Channels) are transitioned over to MPEG4, any idea on what those vacated channel slots 70-99, will be replaced with, if at all?


You're really just freeing up bandwidth, not necessarily channel slots, even though you could use those channel numbers if you wanted.

Hopefully, the bandwidth will be used to up the SD picture quality a teeny bit. The MPEG2 satellites have been tight for a very long time.

And maybe they'll add some cool new features as well, with the freed up bandwidth.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

I say good job, let's get the MPEG4 move started. I want to see HBO East, SHO East and all the old MPEG2 chs in the 70s start transmitting in MPEG4 as soon as possible. Last night I was comparing "We are Marshall" recordings from HBO East MPEG2 and HBO West MPEG4 and the pic quality was night and day.

:biggthump


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> I say good job, let's get the MPEG4 move started. I want to see HBO East, SHO East and all the old MPEG2 chs in the 70s start transmitting in MPEG4 as soon as possible. Last night I was comparing "We are Marshall" recordings from HBO East MPEG2 and HBO West MPEG4 and the pic quality was night and day.
> :biggthump


Looks like we have 94 HD channels on D10. 71 regular HD and 23 Game-Only. Can't imagine they can do much more until D11.


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## BGreen965 (Aug 12, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Looks like we have 94 HD channels on D10. 71 regular HD and 23 Game-Only. Can't imagine they can do much more until D11.


Well with the current amount of HD on most of the new channels and statistical multiplexing Directv uses, the capacity is higher in theory AT THE MOMENT than it would be if all the channels broadcast even 10 hours of HD a day. Don't take this as an anti-directv post, just pointing out that their capacity is actually higher due to the fact that SD mpeg4 doesn't require 10-12mbps for a good picture. (I know the feeds are HD all the time, but with the lack of detail and black areas the required bandwidth for a good picture is much less.) I by NO MEANS want Directv to lower the bit rate and I hope/assume they will spread the channels out more once D11 launches.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

glad to see the process is starting!


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## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

I still have an HR10-250 (hooked up to an SD TV though). Hacked, twiced the storage space, networked, etc. I did get calls and an email about needing an upgrade. While I can't watch HD on that TV I am almost compelled to upgrade (I believe they said it would be free / swap).

Anyone else get these calls, offers and is it a free upgrade/swap?


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## lairdo (Nov 25, 2007)

farjo08 said:


> Anyone else get these calls, offers and is it a free upgrade/swap?


I didn't get a call, but I happened to call in November as I heard they would give you as many HR20/21s as you have HR10-250s. In my case, that was 2 HR21s for free. They don't take away the old HR10-250s either as long as you keep them active (which I did). However, now it looks like I will have to upgrade those too (probably for $99 each given the recent price drop) if I want HD on the TVs those are hooked up to.

This also included a free upgrade and installation of the 5 LNB dish, but as I already had that in place, I didn't take them up on that part of the offer.

They based my free replacements on the information in my profile. So, I don't think I could get another free one or two. (Not that I won't try!)


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

farjo08 said:


> I still have an HR10-250 (hooked up to an SD TV though). Hacked, twiced the storage space, networked, etc. I did get calls and an email about needing an upgrade. While I can't watch HD on that TV I am almost compelled to upgrade (I believe they said it would be free / swap).
> 
> Anyone else get these calls, offers and is it a free upgrade/swap?


I got the same calls and got a free HR20 to replace my HR10. This was about a month or so ago. They didn't even charge me for shipping. Well, they did but then credited it back on the same bill.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Sixto said:


> The only satellites transmitting in MPEG4 format today are Spaceway 1, Spaceway 2, and DirecTV-10. All are being used for HD. MPEG4 HD.
> 
> DirecTV-11 will hopefully launch in the next 60 days or so, depending on the launch of Thuraya 3 by Sea Launch tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Don't forget D12.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Would expect that D11 needs to be in orbit before 100% confirmation of NFL ST in MPEG4 ...


Nope - NFLST is MPEG4 next year


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Thuraya 3 was launched this morning and is no longer on the Sea Launch platform.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

One thing is not clear. Do they still plan to cancel the distant HDs if you convert to MPEG4 and your local HDs then show up?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

JohnH said:


> One thing is not clear. Do they still plan to cancel the distant HDs if you convert to MPEG4 and your local HDs then show up?


Yes, they will be auditing them much closer then they have been.

As your HD Locals become available the DNS feeds will be disabled.
Might not be day-to-day, but once you have MPEG-4 HD Locals, I would HIGHLY recommend not counting on your DNS feeds


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, they will be auditing them much closer then they have been.
> 
> As your HD Locals become available the DNS feeds will be disabled.
> Might not be day-to-day, but once you have MPEG-4 HD Locals, I would HIGHLY recommend not counting on your DNS feeds


Well, that is one of the reasons I have delayed the conversion to MPEG4. I get the 4 HD distants from New York and the Philadelphia Local HDs have been available for quite some time. I get them via OTA most of the time. I purchased an AT9 last week from a local dealer. Looks like I will need to get the WB616 switch to future proof my installation. I love installing in the Winter, NOT.


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

Dang, I guess the writings on the wall for me then soon, guess i better start looking to replace my old Hughes Tivo ( even though i am okay with my locals for now) i have gotten calls from DirecTV and wondered why, ( i was never home ) and only got the message to call them...
I think i'll shoot them an e-mail to see what's up....
I should be okay with my R-15 for the forseeable future though right??


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, nothing is changing with your R-15s


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## MarkN (Jul 13, 2007)

nice move.........


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## PhilipDC (Aug 16, 2006)

I've gotten a couple automated call in the last few days about switching out equipment for free to be able to see EI games in HD. I have one HR20-700 and one HR10-250, so I have the correct dish. When I clicked "1" and talked to a CSR, she said I could SWAP out my HR10-250 for free. She was very adamant about the swap part of it, so I turned it down for now. I don't understand why they would need to take my HR10-250 receiver. Now, it very could be that when the guy came out to install it, he wouldn't take it away, but I'm not willing to risk that. I really wouldn't even need some one to come out--just need to plug in the new HD DVR where the HR10 was.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PhilipDC said:


> I've gotten a couple automated call in the last few days about switching out equipment for free to be able to see EI games in HD. I have one HR20-700 and one HR10-250, so I have the correct dish. When I clicked "1" and talked to a CSR, she said I could SWAP out my HR10-250 for free. She was very adamant about the swap part of it, so I turned it down for now. I don't understand why they would need to take my HR10-250 receiver. Now, it very could be that when the guy came out to install it, he wouldn't take it away, but I'm not willing to risk that. I really wouldn't even need some one to come out--just need to plug in the new HD DVR where the HR10 was.


Because they are running into issues where they upgrade someone for free...
They then sell that HR10-250 (if it was owned), and then they have to deal with a new customer on an upgrade... even though that unit was already given an upgrade deal.

So they are swapping more often now (especially if the HR10-250 is under a lease), then just leaving them be.


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## PhilipDC (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because they are running into issues where they upgrade someone for free...
> They then sell that HR10-250 (if it was owned), and then they have to deal with a new customer on an upgrade... even though that unit was already given an upgrade deal.
> 
> So they are swapping more often now (especially if the HR10-250 is under a lease), then just leaving them be.


My HR10-250 is owned. I paid $1000 for it soon after they came out. Do you think that will make a differnce?


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, nothing is changing with your R-15s


COOL! thanks Earl!


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

I think it cool. Mpeg 4 is sooooo much better the hold outs will apprecite the difference. I cancelled ST though this year. I for one am glad to see it moving along. Come on D11


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## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, they will be auditing them much closer then they have been.
> 
> As your HD Locals become available the DNS feeds will be disabled.
> Might not be day-to-day, but once you have MPEG-4 HD Locals, I would HIGHLY recommend not counting on your DNS feeds


Not sure if the suscriber fits this situation, but here is what the statute states for continuing to receive HD DNS after local HD is offerred:

47 U.S.C. § 339(a)(2)(D)(v)
After December 8, 2004, if the satellite carrier does not make available the digital signal of a local network station in a local market, the satellite carrier may offer a new subscriber after such date who is eligible under this subparagraph a distant ditital signal from a station affiliated with the same network and, in the case of any local market in the 48 contiguous States of the United States, whose prime time network programming is generally broadcast simultaneously with, or later than, the prime time network in the local market, except that--
(I) such carrier *may continue to provide such distant signal *to such a subscriber after the date on which the carrier makes available the digital signal of a local network only if such subscriber subscribes to the digital signal from such local network station . . . .

Also, the FCC has stated in an order dated July 13, 2007, in paragraph 6 of that order that "subscribers receiving a distant digital signal of a network station can *continue to receive *that signal after a satellite carrier begins offering local-into-local digital signals in the market *only if *the subscriber also subscribes to the digital signal of the local station affilated with the same network."

Some HD DNS subscribers may not have obtained their HD DNS prior to HD locals being available.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

PhilipDC said:


> My HR10-250 is owned. I paid $1000 for it soon after they came out. Do you think that will make a differnce?


Yes it will, I just did the swap out last week ,2 HR10s for 2 Hr21s. One of my 10s is owned and the CSR noted that on the work order so I could keep it. Tried to keep the other one but they said that if I kept it active I could keep it but if I ever deactivated it they want it back for the reasons stated above. The owned HR10 I kept active because I wanted to.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

blc said:


> Not sure if the suscriber fits this situation, but here is what the statute states for continuing to receive HD DNS after local HD is offerred:
> 
> 47 U.S.C. § 339(a)(2)(D)(v)
> After December 8, 2004, if the satellite carrier does not make available the digital signal of a local network station in a local market, the satellite carrier may offer a new subscriber after such date who is eligible under this subparagraph a distant ditital signal from a station affiliated with the same network and, in the case of any local market in the 48 contiguous States of the United States, whose prime time network programming is generally broadcast simultaneously with, or later than, the prime time network in the local market, except that--
> ...


That explains my situation, I thought I was just lucky and being overlooked. I have had Fox and CBS on O&O waivers since '04 and they stayed once Denver was activated. I admit I dont use it much and it wont be a big deal if I lose them, but just last Sunday it came in handy - I forgot to set up a recording of the new Terminator series but realized it before it aired in LA.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

blc said:


> Not sure if the suscriber fits this situation, but here is what the statute states for continuing to receive HD DNS after local HD is offerred:
> 
> 47 U.S.C. § 339(a)(2)(D)(v)
> After December 8, 2004, if the satellite carrier does not make available the digital signal of a local network station in a local market, the satellite carrier may offer a new subscriber after such date who is eligible under this subparagraph a distant ditital signal from a station affiliated with the same network and, in the case of any local market in the 48 contiguous States of the United States, whose prime time network programming is generally broadcast simultaneously with, or later than, the prime time network in the local market, except that--
> ...


That's good news. The common belief is that DirecTV will have to turn HD DNS off once locals are available in HD, and evidently they can continue to offer the HD DNS, if they choose to do so, to those who subscribe to HD Locals.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

It is nice to be technically a subscriber to local HDs whether one can actually receive them by satellite or not.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

paulman182 said:


> That's good news. The common belief is that DirecTV will have to turn HD DNS off once locals are available in HD, and evidently they can continue to offer the HD DNS, if they choose to do so, to those who subscribe to HD Locals.


The only problem is...

The signal that you "were" receiving... will no longer be available.
The MPEG-2 version... will cease to exist.

It will then be the MPEG-4 version, on a new channel number.

So the chances of those keeping DNS in areas that already have LiL... is going to be very low.

Given that those affiliates are parting a lot of pressure on DirecTV, to ensure that THEIR customers only have access to THEIR channel.

O&O areas are obviously different then those with privately owned affiliates.


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## d max82 (May 23, 2007)

Sixto said:


> The only satellites transmitting in MPEG4 format today are Spaceway 1, Spaceway 2, and DirecTV-10. All are being used for HD. MPEG4 HD.


Not exactly true. I remeber back awhile ago when one of the birds (D10 I believe) started broadcasting SD locals in MPEG4. It was either Alaska or Hawaii IIRC.

I agree to what you said later on about hopefully the freedup bandwidth being used to up the PQ on SD channels. Hopefully the sd locals I mentioned in MPEG4 are just the start on Directv trying to improve the SD PQ.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

d max82 said:


> Hopefully the sd locals I mentioned in MPEG4 are just the start on Directv trying to improve the SD PQ.


Not really.

It has to do with MPEG-4 simply being a more efficient coding method.

And since those locals were going to be installed on the Ka SATs... ment that the receivers would be MPEG-4 compatibile... so no reason NOT to use the more efficient encoding method, for those locals.


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## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only problem is...
> 
> The signal that you "were" receiving... will no longer be available.
> The MPEG-2 version... will cease to exist.
> ...


I do not think the term "signal" as it is used in the statute is referring to the type of encrypted signal Dtv is sending or the channel Dtv is rebroadcasting it on. Rather, I think it is referring to the distant NY and LA signal that Dtv is picking up and rebroadcasting in whatever encryption Dtv chooses. Thus, the distant signal from NY and LA has not changed, only Dtv's method of encrypting and transporting it to the subscriber.

I can easily be mistaken, but to confine the term "signal" to the channel and/or transponder and encryption method Dtv was or is using at the time would be too restrictive an interpretation. Although I am sure the NAB would like that to be the case and may indeed argue as much.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only problem is...
> 
> The signal that you "were" receiving... will no longer be available.
> The MPEG-2 version... will cease to exist.
> ...


MPEG2/MPEG4 has nothing to do with the program content. Channel numbers can change without affecting authority to receive them.

The pressure is somewhat true and DIRECTV may cave-in, but they do not have to. DIRECTV did sort of cave-in when they removed the Western HD DNSs from us in the EAST. They did not have to do that.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

blc said:


> I do not think the term "signal" as it is used in the statute is referring to the type of encrypted signal Dtv is sending or the channel Dtv is rebroadcasting it on. Rather, I think it is referring to the distant NY and LA signal that Dtv is picking up and rebroadcasting in whatever encryption Dtv chooses. Thus, the distant signal from NY and LA has not changed, only Dtv's method of encrypting and transporting it to the subscriber.
> 
> I can easily be mistaken, but to confine the term "signal" to the channel and/or transponder and encryption method Dtv was or is using at the time would be too restrictive an interpretation. Although I am sure the NAB would like that to be the case and may indeed argue as much.





JohnH said:


> MPEG2/MPEG4 has nothing to do with the program content. Channel numbers can change without affecting authority to receive them.
> 
> The pressure is somewhat true and DIRECTV may cave-in, but they do not have to. DIRECTV did sort of cave-in when they removed the Western HD DNSs from us in the EAST. They did not have to do that.


As we all know... it is in the details.....

If I was a betting man.... I would not count on HD-DNS to be available post converstion, if you have HD LiLs available to you.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Don't forget, there are other considerations than just the statutory ones. Contractually, DIRECTV might be required to run the audit and limit DNS as well.

I say might, as I do not have any particular information at all.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## tbranan (Sep 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only problem is...
> 
> The signal that you "were" receiving... will no longer be available.
> The MPEG-2 version... will cease to exist.
> ...


Earl,
Does that mean those of us in NYC that have (by habit) been using the 80's HD channels will have to look to the single digits or the 390's for our HD now or will we NOT GET the 390's because of the single digit spot beams? I think that is what you are saying in the above post, I am just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

Either way, its gonna be a pain in the haha to reprogram all my dvr stuff. The only reason I used the 80's was because my Dad has the same channels at his house and it was easier to tell him, "60 Minutes is on channel 80, Dad."

Oh, no....I just realized he(read "I") will have to go to his house and reprogram all his recordings too!! :shrug:


----------



## BK EH (Oct 3, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As we all know... it is in the details.....
> 
> If I was a betting man.... I would not count on HD-DNS to be available post converstion, if you have HD LiLs available to you.


You mean the same kind of "details" that D* tried to use to push HDNet to an upper-tier? :lol:

I'd say that the devil is in that detail.


----------



## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

JohnH said:


> MPEG2/MPEG4 has nothing to do with the program content. Channel numbers can change without affecting authority to receive them.
> 
> The pressure is somewhat true and DIRECTV may cave-in, but they do not have to. DIRECTV did sort of cave-in when they removed the Western HD DNSs from us in the EAST. They did not have to do that.


You are absolutely correct, anyone in the central or east time zones should be able to elect to receive the west or east HD DNS (but not both)--as that is what the statute clearly states.


----------



## BK EH (Oct 3, 2005)

blc said:


> You are absolutely correct, anyone in the central or east time zones should be able to elect to receive the west or east HD DNS (but not both)--as that is what the statute clearly states.


Here in Dallas (O&O for CBS, NBC, Fox) we had no choice -- east only. The way it was explained to me, way back when DNS started, was so the prime shows that broadcast at 7/8/9/10 in NYC came on same time as local Dallas here (and supposedly wouldn't poach viewers).


----------



## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

BK EH said:


> Here in Dallas (O&O for CBS, NBC, Fox) we had no choice -- east only. The way it was explained to me, way back when DNS started, was so the prime shows that broadcast at 7/8/9/10 in NYC came on same time as local Dallas here (and supposedly wouldn't poach viewers).


You, I, and everyone else in the cental and east time zones had no choice because of the way Directv implements their DNS feeds (something that is clearly within their prerogative as it still complies with the statute). Congress allowed for a subscriber to receive a HD DNS that is "broadcast simultaneously with, *or* later than, the prime time network programming of the affiliate of the same network in the local market." Direct simply split the country in half. As such, east and central time zones are receiving east HD DNS that is broadcast simultaneoulsy with their local markets. Mountain and pacific time zones cannot, however, under the statute, receive east HD DNS.

It may be that Directv chose this method to make it easier for them to instruct their CSRs--a bright line rule so to speak.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ...
> If I was a betting man.... I would not count on HD-DNS to be available post converstion, *if you have HD LiLs available to you*.


That last phrase is the key.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

say-what said:


> Since those receiving the HD DNS feeds are a small subset of those with legacy HD equipment, it makes sense to start the push there.


What does DNS mean?

Thanx,
Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> What does DNS mean?
> 
> Thanx,
> Rich


Distant Network Service


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Distant Network Service


Will this affect SD TiVos?

Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> Will this affect SD TiVos?
> 
> Rich


Nope


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nope


Thanx,
Rich


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

tbranan said:


> Earl,
> Does that mean those of us in NYC that have (by habit) been using the 80's HD channels will have to look to the single digits or the 390's for our HD now or will we NOT GET the 390's because of the single digit spot beams? I think that is what you are saying in the above post, I am just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
> 
> Either way, its gonna be a pain in the haha to reprogram all my dvr stuff. The only reason I used the 80's was because my Dad has the same channels at his house and it was easier to tell him, "60 Minutes is on channel 80, Dad."
> ...


Why are you using the 80s? Aren't the local numbers (2, 4, etc) in MPEG4 and probably higher quality?


----------



## FYRPLG (Nov 11, 2006)

Mpeg2- Mpeg4 ?????

With the hr10-250 when the change all No HD channels will work?

Local ch's on d* are mpeg4 ?

The 390's will all become mpeg 4 ?

sorry this is all confusing !!!!!!

So the hr10-250 will only be for SD ?


----------



## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

FYRPLG said:


> So the hr10-250 will only be for SD ?


Well, you'll still have HD-OTA. I feel your pain, I have one sitting in the corner collecting dust as I type - it was barely over 18 months old when I decommissioned it.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FYRPLG said:


> Mpeg2- Mpeg4 ?????
> 
> With the hr10-250 when the change all No HD channels will work?
> 
> ...


I do believe you will end up trading that in for an HR21 or using it as an SD DVR. Do the swap. You'll like it. After a steep learning curve that requires much patience.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

say-what said:


> Well, you'll still have HD-OTA. I feel your pain, I have one sitting in the corner collecting dust as I type - it was barely over 18 months old when I decommissioned it.


Can't you get an HR2x from D* for little or no cost? Can't have too many. Understand D* is taking the HR10 TiVos back now and swapping them for HR2xs.

Rich


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

tbranan said:


> Earl,
> Does that mean those of us in NYC that have (by habit) been using the 80's HD channels will have to look to the single digits or the 390's for our HD now or will we NOT GET the 390's because of the single digit spot beams? I think that is what you are saying in the above post, I am just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
> 
> Either way, its gonna be a pain in the haha to reprogram all my dvr stuff. The only reason I used the 80's was because my Dad has the same channels at his house and it was easier to tell him, "60 Minutes is on channel 80, Dad."
> ...


I suspect that once the LA and NYC DNS channels are moved to MPEG4, Directv will cease carrying them on spotbeams. It would only waste bandwidth. They may choose to virtually mirror those channels to the single digits (or even the 80s), however.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

bigmouthindc said:


> OK, I can appreciate that, but any of us still holding on to our mpeg2 HD equipment need to get with the program. Suppose I'm going to have to get rid of my bell bottom jeans too.


Yeah. Accept the fact that your HD TiVo is increasingly an HD OTA & SD sat device and you'll be happier.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

hiker said:


> So when does the channels in the 390's start? I assume they are the MPEG4 versions of the channels in the 80's.


I'm pretty sure they are already up and running as the Mpeg4 locals for Los Angeles. Just a matter of mirroring the channel numbers.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

mightythor88 said:


> I do have 1 HR10-250 though still along with 1 HR20, I wish they would hold off on this migration until the AM-21 is available as I keep reskedding the upgrade of my last tivo with the hope of waiting until the end of February so when I get an HR21 I can immed. get the AM21 for OTA HD locals in Bakersfield.


Ummm ... if you have OTA your HR10 will still get OTA. I'm pretty sure they'll let you keep it after the upgrade.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

PhilipDC said:


> My HR10-250 is owned. I paid $1000 for it soon after they came out. Do you think that will make a differnce?


I did the free "swap" last weekend (1/12/08) and they left me the HR10. Since I already had the 5LNB and, well, everything, all he had to do was unhook the old SD TiVo and replace it with a (*sigh*) HR21.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As we all know... it is in the details.....
> 
> If I was a betting man.... I would not count on HD-DNS to be available post converstion, if you have HD LiLs available to you.


I think what is happening is that the carriage agreements between local stations and DirecTV may include clauses that prohibit continued DNS availability. So while it would be legal for DirecTV to continue to provide them, the local station forces DirecTV to agree to stop sending them to local subscribers as a condition of getting the local.

This is just a guess, but I'd be shocked if the station lawyers missed this point.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I think what is happening is that the carriage agreements between local stations and DirecTV may include clauses that prohibit continued DNS availability. So why it would be legal for DirecTV to continue to provide them, the local station forces DirecTV to agree to stop sending them to local subscribers as a condition of getting the local.
> 
> This is just a guess, but I'd be shocked if the station lawyers missed this point.


There is a huge word in the FCC regulation as shown above, it is MAY. I would think that Directv would opt to discontinue the DNS if there are any contractual problems with the local station. I still get my FOX East coast feed because the local FOX is an O&O. How long this lasts is any ones guess.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, they will be auditing them much closer then they have been.
> 
> As your HD Locals become available the DNS feeds will be disabled.
> Might not be day-to-day, but once you have MPEG-4 HD Locals, I would HIGHLY recommend not counting on your DNS feeds


Except for those grandfathered from long ago. I know of a few folks who got waivers back in 1999 and 2000 who have SD and HD DNS and their own SD _and_ HD locals.


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## tbranan (Sep 3, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> I suspect that once the LA and NYC DNS channels are moved to MPEG4, Directv will cease carrying them on spotbeams. It would only waste bandwidth. They may choose to virtually mirror those channels to the single digits (or even the 80s), however.


Good point, Bob. Thanks for the insight.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

I realize my situation is not typical but please bear with me. I live in western Alaska, can't get locals so I went to Direct a couple of years ago. Because I am so far north and west, I had to install 3 dishes: I have a 6-footer aimed at 101 and 4-footer each at 110 and 119. Signal strength is solid although I do lose reception during rain. Anyway.........my understanding is that to pick up the new MPEG4 transmissions, I'll need a new receiver, which is fine, and "a 5 LNB dish" which is not fine. I am quite sure I can't get both 99 and 103 on one dish, especially a dish that is smaller than what I am using now. I called an installer and he told me he couldn't see how to mount the new LNBs on my old dishes and his understanding is that if I just re-aim my existing dishes and LNBs and feed new MPEG4 receiver , that won't work, either. 

My major concern is picking up the 4 networks as well as HBO and Showtime - all the rest is gravy. What can I do?


----------



## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

FarNorth said:


> I realize my situation is not typical but please bear with me. I live in western Alaska, can't get locals so I went to Direct a couple of years ago. Because I am so far north and west, I had to install 3 dishes: I have a 6-footer aimed at 101 and 4-footer each at 110 and 119. Signal strength is solid although I do lose reception during rain. Anyway.........my understanding is that to pick up the new MPEG4 transmissions, I'll need a new receiver, which is fine, and "a 5 LNB dish" which is not fine. I am quite sure I can't get both 99 and 103 on one dish, especially a dish that is smaller than what I am using now. I called an installer and he told me he couldn't see how to mount the new LNBs on my old dishes and his understanding is that if I just re-aim my existing dishes and LNBs and feed new MPEG4 receiver , that won't work, either.
> 
> My major concern is picking up the 4 networks as well as HBO and Showtime - all the rest is gravy. What can I do?


You'd have to get the Alaska dish (which is a 3LNB dish that picks up the 99, 101, and 103, instead of the 101, 110, and 119), and then play with it from there...
I dont know much about Dishs, but I would suspect that the reason you cant put the LNB from the Alaska dish on your big dish is because it would be out of focus. (Imagine what the curve of the dish does. It "collects" the signal, and focuses it onto the LNB). There may be a way to put the LNB further aware from the dish, and someone here might even know how to do the calculation...

FYI, the 5LNB dish only has 3 visible LNB's. The 2 add'l LNBs (for the 99 & 103) are inside the casing of the 101 degree LNB, I think.
An add'l note. You dont need to worry about the 99. The 103 (b) is where the National channels come from, which would include the DNS locals.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Check toward the end of this thread. There are several posts identifying both the Alaska KaKu dish, as well as how to combine that with your existing dishes for 110 and 119.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62223

Carl


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> I suspect that once the LA and NYC DNS channels are moved to MPEG4, Directv will cease carrying them on spotbeams. It would only waste bandwidth. They may choose to virtually mirror those channels to the single digits (or even the 80s), however.


Interesting theory but can that work? Do they have the ability to restrict channels from CONUS to a specific market (that is, removing them from the guide)? They have to make sure that the channels do not interfere with local channels (like NYC 2 conflicting with Baltimore 2).


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## tuff bob (Mar 5, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Do they have the ability to restrict channels from CONUS to a specific market (that is, removing them from the guide)?


of course they do. when SD LiL first started, all markets were beamed from CONUS satellites.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

carl6 said:


> Check toward the end of this thread. There are several posts identifying both the Alaska KaKu dish, as well as how to combine that with your existing dishes for 110 and 119.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62223
> 
> Carl


I don't see how that will work. When I first started with Direct, I had a 30-inch on 119, a 4-footer on 110 and a 4-footer on 101. I'd lose 101 in any kind of wind or weather so I switched that out to a 6-footer and moved the 4 footer over to 119. It is hard for me to believe that I can get 99/101/103 on one smallish oval dish when I could not reliably get 101 with a 4-foot round dish and a single LNB.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

FarNorth said:


> I don't see how that will work. When I first started with Direct, I had a 30-inch on 119, a 4-footer on 110 and a 4-footer on 101. I'd lose 101 in any kind of wind or weather so I switched that out to a 6-footer and moved the 4 footer over to 119. It is hard for me to believe that I can get 99/101/103 on one smallish oval dish when I could not reliably get 101 with a 4-foot round dish and a single LNB.


The Alaska/Hawaii dishes are larger than the typical SlimLine 5-LNB dish. The last page or so of that thread describes using that dish and gives model numbers. Have you called DirecTV about your situation?


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## bigbw (Jun 25, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Except for those grandfathered from long ago. I know of a few folks who got waivers back in 1999 and 2000 who have SD and HD DNS and their own SD _and_ HD locals.


I don't recall when I got my waivers, but it was after 2001.. I get SD and HD DNS and have SD and HD locals (HD locals for about a month).. If they go away, I save enough money to offset the upcoming price increase.. Not a big deal to me.. 
I never expected to get the waivers anyway..


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

Looks like it has begun. I am now getting CBS West HD (the only channel for which I have a waiver) on channel 391.


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## HaRrrgh20! (Jan 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Except for those grandfathered from long ago. I know of a few folks who got waivers back in 1999 and 2000 who have SD and HD DNS and their own SD _and_ HD locals.


That's what I have: LA HD DNS, NY SD DNS and SF LIL. I have recently "swapped" (added) another HR20 (yes, they sent an HR20) and they made sure that all of the services were re-enabled correctly.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> The Alaska/Hawaii dishes are larger than the typical SlimLine 5-LNB dish. The last page or so of that thread describes using that dish and gives model numbers. Have you called DirecTV about your situation?


Yes, by golly and after moving up to a supervisor, I got some answers which make sense.

She agreed that the current Alaska/Hawaii dishes with multiple LNBs won't work for me. However......

1. She says Direct is working on single LNBs that are MPEG 4 compatible. There is no time frame on availability but -

2. The situation will, no doubt, get addressed long before the start of the next NFL season and Sunday Ticket '08.

3. She agreed that their major focus right now is to switch over as many customers as they can easily. Those are the majority of you folks who only have a single dish and can swap out to one of their new dishes, swap to a new rcvr and go.

4. Direct is not just concerned about folks in marginal locations like Alaska and Hawaii - there are hundreds, maybe thousands of bars and restaurants with 10 foot dishes on the roof that will need single LNBs to get Sunday Ticket. Those customers - and me - will get their needs addressed.

5. Perhaps most important, she told me that the HD DNS channels in the '80s will stay live until February '09.

The end of the story is that I will stick with my MPEG2 stuff until the new single LNBs are rolled out sometime this summer and then transition over. I feel a lot better at this point.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

FarNorth said:


> 1. She says Direct is working on single LNBs that are MPEG 4 compatible. There is no time frame on availability but -


Not possible.... It may "look" like a single LNB but internally it will be multiple ones...



FarNorth said:


> The end of the story is that I will stick with my MPEG2 stuff until the new single LNBs are rolled out sometime this summer and then transition over. I feel a lot better at this point.


Are you thinking of SINGLE DISH solution.....

Single LNBs are not on the horizon... the closest you are going to get is the Slimline which is a single housing, but with multiple LNBs.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

I have 3 dishes now and the only solution I am looking for is one that will work. If I can use my existing dishes and swap out LNBs and/or switches, fine - but I am very concerned that using a Slimline dish with a multiple LNB won't work. 

1. I had a 4-footer with a single LNB aimed at 101 and it was marginal.
2. I replaced that with a 6-footer and a single LNB that works fine.

Is it realistic to think a Slimline aimed at 103 will work - when a 48" dish was marginal on 101? Or are you saying I need to use a Slimline LNB on a different dish? And, if so, how easy is that going to be to adapt and to tune?

There are bars all over Anchorage and Soldotna with huge dishes aimed at 101 for the NFL. If they go to Slimline dishes and they don't work, these folks will not be happy.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

IIRC, the FCC documents for the new satellites seemed to indicate larger dishes would be used for Alaska and Hawaii. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

I _think_ the new AK/HI dish is oval, 42" wide and maybe 30" high which is why I am concerned. I had poor reception on 101 with a 48" round dish so I have a hard time believing I'll get good reception on 103 with a Slimline dish that is, effectively, smaller.


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## hdthebest (Sep 10, 2007)

I live in Los Angeles will the pq improve on my locals as well since the move to 103b or is it going to stay the same?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

FarNorth said:


> I _think_ the new AK/HI dish is oval, 42" wide and maybe 30" high which is why I am concerned. I had poor reception on 101 with a 48" round dish so I have a hard time believing I'll get good reception on 103 with a Slimline dish that is, effectively, smaller.


The newer LNBs probably have better signal-to-noise performance, so your reception might actually be better, even with a slightly smaller dish. Hard to say, of course.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

hdthebest said:


> I live in Los Angeles will the pq improve on my locals as well since the move to 103b or is it going to stay the same?


I doubt you will see any difference.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> The newer LNBs probably have better signal-to-noise performance, so your reception might actually be better, even with a slightly smaller dish. Hard to say, of course.


Do you ever get random reboots on your R10?

Rich


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Do you ever get random reboots on your R10?
> 
> Rich


Nope. It's powered with a UPS and has been very reliable.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

So has anyone in the LA area (or has access to these channels)

Been able to screen capture the crawl and the information channel?


----------



## griz (Mar 9, 2007)

I have waivers for NBC, ABC, and FOX. Are the new HD channels in the 390s just re-maps of the 80s, or are they MPEG4 (re-map of LA locals)?

I guess I could try recording the same show on both channels and seeing how much room they take up, but I would have to record to couple hours to figure it out (and I'm about out of room on the HD--I really need to hook up my eSATA). 

If they are MPEG4, I could change my season passes to the less space hoggish (and better quality) MPEG4 channels instead of the MPEG2 channels.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I can report that I am receiving 391 and 399, so at least O&O waivers will continue to be good. I will watch 81 at the top of the hour and report if I see anything.


----------



## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So has anyone in the LA area (or has access to these channels)
> 
> Been able to screen capture the crawl and the information channel?


I haven't captured the crawl, but it says something like "Important information about this channel -- tune to Channel 85 for details." When you go to Channel 85, you see this:


----------



## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

griz said:


> Are the new HD channels in the 390s just re-maps of the 80s, or are they MPEG4 (re-map of LA locals)?


They're not re-maps -- I can see a difference in quality between the two. 391 looks better in some ways (less mosquito noise), but worse in others (lots of "stepping" in gradients).


----------



## rotomike (Feb 24, 2007)

Earl, When the D11 gets fired up do you think the LIL will be all in hi-def or do you think they will send some SD locals as well to save bandwidth? WE are suppose to be getting our locals from the D11 and everyone around here is going nuts trying to figure if they need an antenna or what they will need. Doesnt it seem that DTV would just put any new locals on HD? We are like 150 on the market and they may not have room for 150 markets all in hi-def so they may make some of the standard def? Your take on it?

mike


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Most SD LiL will remain exactly the same as they are now. Those moving off of 72.5 will either move to 119, 99 or 103. If your SD locals move to 119 then you will need either a 3-LNB or 5-LNB dish. If your SD locals are among the very few that move to 99 or 103, then you will need a 5-LNB dish and new mpeg4 capable receivers.

Carl


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## rotomike (Feb 24, 2007)

carl6 said:


> Most SD LiL will remain exactly the same as they are now. Those moving off of 72.5 will either move to 119, 99 or 103. If your SD locals move to 119 then you will need either a 3-LNB or 5-LNB dish. If your SD locals are among the very few that move to 99 or 103, then you will need a 5-LNB dish and new mpeg4 capable receivers.
> 
> Carl


I cant tell if your replying to me or not but in My case we have NO locals at all right now. DTV installed the equipment already at our local stations because we were suppose to come off from the D10 until they had spot beam problems but anyway-----we have no DTV locals at all right now and will be getting them 100% from D10 or D11 because we have to install mpeg 4 receivers and install slimlines in our area is mandatory so i know they will be coming from D10 or D11 and you would think since they are new locals they would go HD but maybe not? Any more thoughts anyone?

mike


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

rotomike said:


> I and you would think since they are new locals they would go HD but maybe not? Any more thoughts anyone?
> 
> mike


They would do both, SD and HD.

Carl


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

videojanitor said:


> Looks like it has begun. I am now getting CBS West HD (the only channel for which I have a waiver) on channel 391.


Yup, here in the north SF bay area(Santa Rosa) they've already been turned on, all 4 LA nets in HD. Haven't really made any PQ comparisons or seen the scrawls as I rarely watch these channels anymore.

Per the first post, hadn't expected it to happen that fast, but for the time being I now have 12 different HD channels for the 4 main nets.


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## rotomike (Feb 24, 2007)

carl6 said:


> They would do both, SD and HD.
> 
> Carl


Well that clears some things up. Some people think that everything is going to be HD with these new birds but they will still send out SD signals as well for some cities that are not very far up on the list. Im guessing that we will get SD locals here since thats what Dish did.

Mike


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## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

So I think I am going to call DTV to get my free upgrade but had a few questions if anyone could answer.

I have an HR10-250 that is hacked (added a second 250GB drive, enabled networking, tivoweb, endpad+ and a few other hacks). I also modified the kernel so it would not take updates (got tired of having to resinstall everything after an update came down, swtiched partitions, etc. I also bought this myself, so it's owned, no incentivies, etc. from DTV when I purchased it.

First, are they going to want to reclaim the HR10-250 or since I owned it will they let me keep it (I assume if they do let me keep it I need to keep it activated)?

Second, regardless of the first answer, I assume either way whatever I get HR20 or HR21 it will be leased?

Last, if they do reclaim the HR10-250, I will take out the 250GB drive, but should I really worry or need to remove the hacks? I believe I have an image of the original HD SW (before it was even booted) - so I could revert back to that, just a bit of a hassle at this point.

One other thing, since they would just be doing a received swap or just a hookup (if i keep the old one) - would you tip the installer? I believe they still won't ship the receiver and I would need to have someone come out (which to me is pointless) to "install" it. Since there really is no work, would a tip be expected (I know it would be appreciated)? And if anyone tipped for just a receiver swap, how much did you give the guy?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Most poeple on this forum report that DirecTV does not take HR10s back anymore.

Unless you have a 5LNB dish (AT-9 or Slimline,) a new dish and possibly a multiswitch will need to be installed.

If you already have the dish, there is now an option on the website to have the receiver shipped to you. At least, it shows up when I check on buying another one.


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## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> Most poeple on this forum report that DirecTV does not take HR10s back anymore.
> 
> Unless you have a 5LNB dish (AT-9 or Slimline,) a new dish and possibly a multiswitch will need to be installed.
> 
> If you already have the dish, there is now an option on the website to have the receiver shipped to you. At least, it shows up when I check on buying another one.


I do have the dish and multiswitch as they installed both of those when I got my first HR20.

It looks like you have to call them, as opposed to schedule it through the website so I guess I can just give them a call and see that they have to say.

The HR10 is currently hooked up to an SD TV, so I don't need the MPEG4 compatability, but since they are offering it for a free, a bit hard to pass up.


----------



## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

Well just called them. They said I could keep the HR10 but would require someone to come out and install the HR20/21 (didn't know what I would get).

I decided to go ahead and order it and should be installed Saturday.

So any advice on tipping the guy?


----------



## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So has anyone in the LA area (or has access to these channels) been able to screen capture the crawl and the information channel?


Earl, here's the crawl (had to take two screen shots to get the whole thing):


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> Nope. It's powered with a UPS and has been very reliable.


Just went thru a large thread yesterday on another forum about rebooting randomly and saw a couple from Washington state. Lot of people think it is a geographical thing and your experience argues against that point. I don't think any body's location has anything to do with it and your experience strengthens my opinion, which I admit is sort of an informed WAG.

I've tried the UPS thing and taken it a step farther with a "constant voltage transformer" which should work better than a UPS (except in a power failure, of course). Made no difference. Reboot occurred an hour after hooking up the transformer and I put a meter on the transformer and read 118 VAC.

You're just one of the lucky ones. Go buy a lottery ticket!

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

farjo08 said:


> Well just called them. They said I could keep the HR10 but would require someone to come out and install the HR20/21 (didn't know what I would get).
> 
> I decided to go ahead and order it and should be installed Saturday.
> 
> So any advice on tipping the guy?


If the guy is friendly and does everything I ask him to do and sticks around to make sure everything is OK, I throw him a $50. Otherwise, zip.

Rich


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## bertman64 (Aug 25, 2007)

Is everyone still getting HD Net and will we get if free on MPEG 4 or is it up in the air with Mark Cuban's lawsuit? All other HD only channels are gone so guess I should order the 5.00 package!


----------



## bobinyuma (Aug 29, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> They're not re-maps -- I can see a difference in quality between the two. 391 looks better in some ways (less mosquito noise), but worse in others (lots of "stepping" in gradients).


Is there any confirmation on this yet.........I couldnt tell the difference, then again, I wasnt looking for one last night. I have all four LA HD DNS channels


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

bertman64 said:


> Is everyone still getting HD Net and will we get if free on MPEG 4 or is it up in the air with Mark Cuban's lawsuit? All other HD only channels are gone so guess I should order the 5.00 package!


HD Net has been removed from the Extra Pack. The Directv website has been updated to show this.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bertman64 said:


> Is everyone still getting HD Net and will we get if free on MPEG 4 or is it up in the air with Mark Cuban's lawsuit? All other HD only channels are gone so guess I should order the 5.00 package!


And it will eventually be converted to MPEG-4.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

farjo08 said:


> So any advice on tipping the guy?


There was an entire thread just on this topic a short while back (really).

Depends on how he does. If he's good, does a good job and cleans up after himself, I would tip $20. If he does some extra stuff that would normally not be included (a wall fish for example, or an extra run for future use), I'd probably go $40 or $50.

Carl


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## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

carl6 said:


> There was an entire thread just on this topic a short while back (really).
> 
> Depends on how he does. If he's good, does a good job and cleans up after himself, I would tip $20. If he does some extra stuff that would normally not be included (a wall fish for example, or an extra run for future use), I'd probably go $40 or $50.
> 
> Carl


Thanks. I'm thinking $20 at the moment but all he will be doing is taking it out of the box, connecting the existing coax cables, connecting the A/V cables and plugging it in. Not much of a job at all. But if he does the work, sticks around to make sure it activates, works, etc. I will throw him a tip.


----------



## Riot Nrrrd™ (Mar 29, 2006)

Channel 85 says:

"The Los Angeles HD Signals of ABC, CBS, NBC
and Fox are Moving to a New Satellite Soon"

How soon is "Soon"?

I am scheduled for my HR20/HR21 upgrade, but it's not until Feb. 1st - will the present MPEG-2 81/83/87/89 LA channels stay on until then?

(Also, what about 70-79, same schedule for them to move?)


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Riot Nrrrd™ said:


> Channel 85 says:
> 
> "The Los Angeles HD Signals of ABC, CBS, NBC
> and Fox are Moving to a New Satellite Soon"
> ...


I think they're already there. Not sure what the exact "turn-off" date for the current MPEG2 channels is.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

A week from next Tuesday.


----------



## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

bobinyuma said:


> Is there any confirmation on this yet.........I couldnt tell the difference, then again, I wasnt looking for one last night.


The only confirmation I have is my eyeballs. Plus, 391 is running a couple of seconds behind 81. If it was just re-mapped, they'd be in sync.


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## cbearnm (Sep 6, 2006)

I just love the consistency of D* CSRs.

I have been reluctant to u/g my HR10-250 due to:
TiVo interface
dual live buffers
50+ hours of recordings to watch

I currently have an HR20-700 as well. I really like the remote booking, now that it is activated. The interface is getting better, but I am still so used to TiVo.

I just got off the phone after telling her that I saw that I need to u/g the HR10 to get the MPEG4 (which they have been harassing me to do).

The CSR got the information and said they had to schedule an install. I tried unsuccessfully to convince her that I can swap out a receiver, since the HR20 is already fully functional.

OK, so I have to have wait for a 4 hour window for the installer to come in and mess up my wiring for me. I have had D* for 10 years and the 5 LNB dish install was the first time I have ever had an installer come out. This is through 6 different receivers and 3 different dishes.

Then, she said that they would also have to take away the HR10. If I want to keep it, to watch the shows that are on it, I would have to PURCHASE the HR20. I could just feel my blood pressure rising up. She was very polite and one of the more informed CSRs that I have talked to, but I had to get off the phone as quick as I could.

I am willing to pay the mirroring fee for a month or so, to get caught up on the HR10 recordings, but ... wow.


----------



## JerryShain (Sep 5, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> This only applies to people that live in areas NOT covered by locals in HD and that currently get ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in HD on the channels located in the 80's. Not a dumb question at all.
> 
> You're SF locals are on 2, 4, 5, 7, 11, etc... Those do not change.


What doe SF mean?


----------



## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

farjo08 said:


> Thanks. I'm thinking $20 at the moment but all he will be doing is taking it out of the box, connecting the existing coax cables, connecting the A/V cables and plugging it in. Not much of a job at all. But if he does the work, sticks around to make sure it activates, works, etc. I will throw him a tip.


I would not tip for that, only for something "extra" that they do. If he's a good guy then if it makes you feel better give him something. I gave my last one an old SD DVR and he was happy with that so he gave me an extra remote.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JerryShain said:


> What doe SF mean?


San Francisco.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cbearnm said:


> Then, she said that they would also have to take away the HR10. If I want to keep it, to watch the shows that are on it, I would have to PURCHASE the HR20. I could just feel my blood pressure rising up. She was very polite and one of the more informed CSRs that I have talked to, but I had to get off the phone as quick as I could.
> 
> I am willing to pay the mirroring fee for a month or so, to get caught up on the HR10 recordings, but ... wow.


When I run into problems with the CSRs, I ask for a "resolution specialist" or "retention". They can both clear up your problem.

Rich


----------



## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Any more word when the '80s channels will get turned off? If/when I switch to MPEG 4 it is going to take some work and it would be much easier in the spring/summer than in the dead of winter.


----------



## Riot Nrrrd™ (Mar 29, 2006)

FarNorth said:


> Any more word when the '80s channels will get turned off? If/when I switch to MPEG 4 it is going to take some work and it would be much easier in the spring/summer than in the dead of winter.





Lord Vader said:


> A week from next Tuesday.


(Not sure if that's relevant to Alaska, FarNorth.)


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

So here is a question. The new DNS HD channels from LA are coming in on a conus sat, correct? LA has had local MPeg-4 HD channels on spotbeam from 99 or 103 for over a year now. Anyone know if they are planning on using the conus channels to map for locals here in LA so they can free up the bandwidth that they are using for the Spot beamed channels for other channels, possibly in different markets? Or is the answer yes and they are already doing that?


----------



## JJEZ96 (Apr 21, 2007)

carl6 said:


> They would do both, SD and HD.
> 
> Carl


I don't understand why they would do both SD and HD if a mpeg4 receiver is required. Why not just send everything HD and let the receiver downconvert it if you don't have a HDTV. Why waste bandwidth on duplicate channels.

JJ


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JJEZ96 said:


> Why waste bandwidth on duplicate channels.


Because technically they're not duplicate channels. And I'm sure the local stations require DirecTV to carry both versions.


----------



## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> I think they're already there. Not sure what the exact "turn-off" date for the current MPEG2 channels is.


Direct CSR told me this morning no date is set yet but they do have a bunch more HD channels set to roll out late Feb/early March so maybe that's the "turn off" time.


----------



## JJEZ96 (Apr 21, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Because technically they're not duplicate channels. And I'm sure the local stations require DirecTV to carry both versions.


In Houston all HD channels ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox are the exact same as the SD version. So please tell me how they are not duplicate? The only difference would be the screen formatting. When Feb 2009 rolls around, they will be the same in all other areas, including screen formatting.

JJ


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## BGreen965 (Aug 12, 2007)

A MPEG4 SD channel doesn't use enough bandwidth to cause any great concern. SD locals are not going away for a long time as, my guess is, most local TV stations will offer an SD "center cut" feed via digital sub channel or direct fiber link.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JJEZ96 said:


> So please tell me how they are not duplicate?





JJEZ96 said:


> The only difference would be the screen formatting.


You answered your own question. Pay close attention to the text on HD commercials, and HD network bugs. If DirecTV were to just take the HD feed and chop off the sides for the SD viewers, the text would be cut off and so would the network bugs. The networks and their advertisers would not be happy with this at all.


----------



## alv (Aug 13, 2002)

when do East coast feeds go MPEG-4


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

alv said:


> when do East coast feeds go MPEG-4


That information has not been made public.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

June 31st from what I've heard.


----------



## likegadgets (Dec 29, 2005)

I have several series set to record that use the 80's channels rather than the single digits (I am in LA) or the 390's.

Some shows I recorded this week show the banner.

I suppose I need to redo all of these. Any simple way of changing the channel for a series orther than delete and redo? Some series do not currently have future shows and I may not be able to "redo" them just yet.

Thanks


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

likegadgets said:


> I have several series set to record that use the 80's channels rather than the single digits (I am in LA) or the 390's.
> 
> Some shows I recorded this week show the banner.
> 
> ...


No easier way.. but you will gain more recording time and better picture quality...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

likegadgets said:


> I suppose I need to redo all of these.


You really should have been using the lower channel numbers all along.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Lord Vader said:


> June 31st from what I've heard.


Too funny! :lol:


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## gimp (Jul 29, 2006)

I am able to directly tune:
CBSWHD – Channel 391
NBCWHD – Channel 393
ABCWHD – Channel 397

However, there is no guide data (when on one of these channels and pressing guide, it shows guide info for HBOH), and therefore I cannot move my recordings on 80's channels. Should the guide be there for these channels now?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

gimp said:


> Should the guide be there for these channels now?


Yes, and it is there on my receiver. Try rebooting.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

gimp said:


> I am able to directly tune:
> CBSWHD - Channel 391
> NBCWHD - Channel 393
> ABCWHD - Channel 397
> ...


I'm going to guess you are using a custom list? You need to add the channels to that list. I'm getting all 4 with guide info here in the SF bay area.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

keenan said:


> I'm going to guess you are using a custom list? You need to add the channels to that list.


Oh man, you're right. I misread his post, and I was thinking that his guide showed the channels, but they had the guide info from HBO.


----------



## gimp (Jul 29, 2006)

keenan said:


> I'm going to guess you are using a custom list? You need to add the channels to that list. I'm getting all 4 with guide info here in the SF bay area.


I've got an HR20. What do you mean by custom list?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

gimp said:


> I've got an HR20. What do you mean by custom list?


Favorites list.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

BGreen965 said:


> A MPEG4 SD channel doesn't use enough bandwidth to cause any great concern. SD locals are not going away for a long time as, my guess is, most local TV stations will offer an SD "center cut" feed via digital sub channel or direct fiber link.


Do you really think that will happen? That would be a huge waste of bandwidth. I assume that the SD digital receiver/downconverters will just offer a crop option for the masses of SD viewers who will not want to watch leterboxed 16:9 programs and especially for what will then be windoboxed 4:3 programs on any station that is broadcasting 4:3 programs in a pillar-bared 16:9 frame.


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Oh man, you're right. I misread his post, and I was thinking that his guide showed the channels, but they had the guide info from HBO.


LOL...I just happen to notice it because after reading his post I went to check by punching in 391 directly and then pulled up the guide and sure enough, HBO 501 was showing. I hadn't added the channels my self to my Custom 1 list.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

> Originally Posted by BGreen965
> A MPEG4 SD channel doesn't use enough bandwidth to cause any great concern. SD locals are not going away for a long time as, my guess is, most local TV stations will offer an SD "center cut" feed via digital sub channel or direct fiber link.


Why provide MPEG4 SD channels? Only the HR20/21 and H20/21 are MPEG4 capable and they are HD receivers.

Directv may already be down converting the LIL HD digital feeds and use them for the SD channels. Saves on transmission cost from the source city and they do not have to convert the analogue feed to digital.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> Why provide MPEG4 SD channels? Only the HR20/21 and H20/21 are MPEG4 capable and they are HD receivers.
> 
> Directv may already be down converting the LIL HD digital feeds and use them for the SD channels. Saves on transmission cost from the source city and they do not have to convert the analogue feed to digital.


Mpeg-4, because its better compression (by a little on sd channels) and is coming from 99 or 103. Thats where they have the room. And technically, right now, the HD and SD feeds from networks are different feeds, so they must have 2 different pipelines. In the long run this may change, but it is what it is for now.... I agree though, its stupid to put up any SD feeds now. HD only is the way I wish it would go...

Also, in the really long run, I expect that you will see the SD locals go away and be replaced by the sub channels, but that is 5 years or more away, and would take a long time to happen...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> Directv may already be down converting the LIL HD digital feeds and use them for the SD channels.


They are not doing this, and they can't do this.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Mpeg-4, because its better compression (by a little on sd channels) and is coming from 99 or 103. Thats where they have the room. And technically, right now, the HD and SD feeds from networks are different feeds, so they must have 2 different pipelines. In the long run this may change, but it is what it is for now.... I agree though, its stupid to put up any SD feeds now. HD only is the way I wish it would go...
> 
> Also, in the really long run, I expect that you will see the SD locals go away and be replaced by the sub channels, but that is 5 years or more away, and would take a long time to happen...


I was not talking about the network feeds. I know they have to have two because some stations do not have HD capability yet. I was talking about Directv feed from the locals to the broadcast centers. No reason to have two feeds if an HD feed is available. It would be cheaper to down convert a feed at the broadcast center for the SD feed, than the cost of fiber bandwidth to carry both.

Five years sounds about right for the SD feeds to do away. When the sats at 101 reach their end of life you can bet the SD from that position will be gone for good.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> No reason to have two feeds if an HD feed is available.


Like I said in my previous post, DirecTV cannot create the SD feed from the HD feed. The HD and SD feeds are different. Even the affiliates themselves receive separate HD and SD feeds. If they could simply create the SD feed from the HD feed, do you think the networks would waste the time and money to send out two feeds?


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Like I said in my previous post, DirecTV cannot create the SD feed from the HD feed. The HD and SD feeds are different. Even the affiliates themselves receive separate HD and SD feeds. If they could simply create the SD feed from the HD feed, do you think the networks would waste the time and money to send out two feeds?


The nets have to because some affiliates do not have HD capability so they have to send an SD feed to the slowpokes. Those net SD feeds will go away next year. Not sure what you mean different. I sure it is not a major thing to down convert an HD feed to a 4:3 SD digital feed. The digital SDTV's at Walmart can do it. They give you the choice of letter box or center cut display from the OTA HD signal.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

lwilli201 said:


> Those net SD feeds will go away next year.


Huh? They're not going anywhere.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Huh? They're not going anywhere.


What are the local stations going to do with a network analogue SD feed after the digital change over.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> What are the local stations going to do with a network analogue SD feed after the digital change over.


I don't believe the networks will offer an SD feed after the analog cutoff date. If they do, affiliates could choose to put it on a digital subchannel.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

lwilli201 said:


> What are the local stations going to do with a network analogue SD feed after the digital change over.


Now your differentiating analog from digital. SD can still be digital. Look at WGN Chicago local right now on 9.1. It's an SD but digital transmission.

I believe you're confusing HD/SD/digital, which is very common. All HD=digital, but digital is not necessarily HD.


----------



## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Now your differentiating analog from digital. SD can still be digital. Look at WGN Chicago local right now on 9.1. It's an SD but digital transmission.
> 
> I believe you're confusing HD/SD/digital, which is very common. All HD=digital, but digital is not necessarily HD.


I think that you are confusing the fact that HD isn't mandated for the switch over to digital with the reality that after the mandated digital switch over, almost every major network O&O and affiliate, and almost every major independent TV station will be broadcasting their signal in some HD format, regardless of the fact that they are not required to, and regardless of the fact that the vast majority of their programming may still only be upconverted SD.

Make no mistake, many of the current SD broadcasts are going away in 2009, and the cable and satellite operators that will continue to provide the SD versions of those TV stations to their customers will be transmitting cropped or letterboxed versions of the HD feeds that the TV stations are broadcasting.


----------



## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Like I said in my previous post, DirecTV cannot create the SD feed from the HD feed. The HD and SD feeds are different. Even the affiliates themselves receive separate HD and SD feeds. If they could simply create the SD feed from the HD feed, do you think the networks would waste the time and money to send out two feeds?


DirecTV will have no choice but to create SD feeds from HD broadcasts because after Feb 2009, many of the locals that they carry will have only an HD broadcast available, and DirecTV isn't going to stop providing an SD version of that local just because only an HD OTA broadcast exists. Even the FCC has stated that they want cable and satellite operators to provide downconverted versions of all the HD only OTA broadcasts, and recently some of the regulators at the FCC were making some noise about possibly mandating cable and satellite operators to provide SD downconverts of the local OTA HD broadcast channels for some period of time so that millions of analog TV owners don't lose the ability to watch their locals when the analog OTA broadcasts are turned off in 2009.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> DirecTV will have no choice but to create SD feeds from HD broadcasts because after Feb 2009


Obviously. But I was talking about *today*, and *today* they can't do it. And when they do, they'll probably letterbox the feed.


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

We have a SD tv here at work with a built in digital tuner.. works fine recieving the HD digital signals from local OTA stations.. It's a cheap tv so it can't be hard to downrez the HD signal to SD.. By the way it allows you to veiw either a letterboxed or a zoomed (sides cut off) image..


----------



## gimp (Jul 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Favorites list.


That fixed it. Thanks!


----------



## dthreet (Jun 6, 2006)

I figured this would happen sooner or later. I guess I will be loosing my ABC HD NY soon that I have only watched twice in the last two years. I am going to be crushed. I won't be able to watch the ball drop on a ABC NY.  oh well


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dthreet said:


> I won't be able to watch the ball drop on a ABC NY.  oh well


Don't they just show it delayed by an hour in your timezone?


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> DirecTV will have no choice but to create SD feeds from HD broadcasts because after Feb 2009, many of the locals that they carry will have only an HD broadcast available, and DirecTV isn't going to stop providing an SD version of that local just because only an HD OTA broadcast exists. Even the FCC has stated that they want cable and satellite operators to provide downconverted versions of all the HD only OTA broadcasts, and recently some of the regulators at the FCC were making some noise about possibly mandating cable and satellite operators to provide SD downconverts of the local OTA HD broadcast channels for some period of time so that millions of analog TV owners don't lose the ability to watch their locals when the analog OTA broadcasts are turned off in 2009.


If the FCC comes up with any rule like that, I hope its worded more like, "must continue to offer a sd resolution picture out of standard NTSC outputs, or upgrade all customers to equipment that can receive all Digital formats and out put the signal via a standard NTSC resolution output." I do not want to see congress mandate that all cable and satellite companies must continue to use some of their spectrum for sd when it is not at all technically necessary. Right now it is financially necessary for the providers, but it won't be for too much longer, and I have a feeling that that point in time will come before the last analogue tv set has been recycled...


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The cable industry has been forced to carry analogue outputs of key channels until 2012. I believe it can be via set top boxes or via analogue feeds.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Key word there being analogue outputs... no control on what the signal is from the provider until it leaves their receiver that is inside your home and going to your tv... I have no issues with that, and frankly it makes good business sense... I hate cable, but if they get to far behind Directv and Dish and IPTV, then competition would go way down, and that would bring up our rates faster than they are increasing now.....


----------



## Jotas (Jan 5, 2006)

I've been reading this thready carefully and there have been some very good points brought up about swapping out. One question I have not seen asked is if you do swap out the HR10 for the the HR20, do you have to commit to a new year or two year agreement?

I was thinking of upgrading my HR10 earlier this week when I briefly saw a promo ad on D*'s site about upgrading for only $99 for an HR20. I forwarded the message about this to a co-worker who wanted one and when I attempted to find the ad again, no luck.

Now that I'm reading they'll swap out for free I'll just wait until they begin pushing the East coast off, but I'd be willing to trade in now if I know that I won't have to pay a dime and I won't be required to commit to another year or two of service.


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Activating any advanced receiver (HD and/or DVR) results in a new 2 year committment.

Activating a basic receiver (SD) results in a new 1 year committment.

Carl


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jotas said:


> I've been reading this thready carefully and there have been some very good points brought up about swapping out. One question I have not seen asked is if you do swap out the HR10 for the the HR20, do you have to commit to a new year or two year agreement?
> 
> I was thinking of upgrading my HR10 earlier this week when I briefly saw a promo ad on D*'s site about upgrading for only $99 for an HR20. I forwarded the message about this to a co-worker who wanted one and when I attempted to find the ad again, no luck.
> 
> Now that I'm reading they'll swap out for free I'll just wait until they begin pushing the East coast off, but I'd be willing to trade in now if I know that I won't have to pay a dime and I won't be required to commit to another year or two of service.


How many times in the last 5 years have you changed service, and do you expect there to be a compelling reason to switch services in the next 3 years? I'm just curious as to why the commitment concerns you, unless you are planning on moving soon and are not sure you'll be able to receive service at your next home...


----------



## Jotas (Jan 5, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> How many times in the last 5 years have you changed service, and do you expect there to be a compelling reason to switch services in the next 3 years? I'm just curious as to why the commitment concerns you, unless you are planning on moving soon and are not sure you'll be able to receive service at your next home...


I like to keep my options open and in my area there is finally competition that didn't exist before. I now have the option of going with cable or FiOS for service. A few years back it was smart to stay with D* and save money, but with competition in my area now, there are better deals out there. I'm in year two of my current agreement so I wanted to find out if I'd be starting another two year agreement with the swap.


----------



## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

Jotas said:


> I like to keep my options open and in my area there is finally competition that didn't exist before. I now have the option of going with cable or FiOS for service. A few years back it was smart to stay with D* and save money, but with competition in my area now, there are better deals out there. I'm in year two of my current agreement so I wanted to find out if I'd be starting another two year agreement with the swap.


If you are going to switch, you better not upgrade then. :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jotas said:


> I now have the option of going with cable or FiOS for service. A few years back it was smart to stay with D* and save money, but with competition in my area now, there are better deals out there.


I just looked into FIOS and Cablevision. No comparison. FIOS is having a lot of problems with their DVRs and won't give me as many as I need. Cablevision fees would be almost double my D* fee. If you just have one or two DVRs perhaps you might be able to get a better deal. I have twelve DVRs activated today.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I personally wouldn't really consider Fios for another 3 years. They are in their infancy and have way to many things to get fixed, and channels added. Then we'll see where they are at when they have truly comparable features in terms of pricing....


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## Jotas (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I just looked into FIOS and Cablevision. No comparison. FIOS is having a lot of problems with their DVRs and won't give me as many as I need. Cablevision fees would be almost double my D* fee. If you just have one or two DVRs perhaps you might be able to get a better deal. I have twelve DVRs activated today.
> 
> Rich


A friend of mine is switching from D* to FiOS and told me about the pricing yesterday. He doesn't have HD so he's saving money but he told me about the pricing on the standard receiver and a DVR version. Wow, too pricey but it all balances out since he only has two receivers and both are standard def. He's getting the triple package which drops his price down overall. Still doesn't seem appealing. I only have two HD DVRs so that's about $30 out the window a month just on the receivers alone!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jotas said:


> A friend of mine is switching from D* to FiOS and told me about the pricing yesterday. He doesn't have HD so he's saving money but he told me about the pricing on the standard receiver and a DVR version. Wow, too pricey but it all balances out since he only has two receivers and both are standard def. He's getting the triple package which drops his price down overall. Still doesn't seem appealing. I only have two HD DVRs so that's about $30 out the window a month just on the receivers alone!


I just got a visit from the friendly folks at Cablevision yesterday. They came armed with FIOS pricing and after about an hour, finally admitted that Cablevision could not come close to D*'s price. Naturally, they had nothing good to say about FIOS.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I personally wouldn't really consider Fios for another 3 years. They are in their infancy and have way to many things to get fixed, and channels added. Then we'll see where they are at when they have truly comparable features in terms of pricing....


Agreed. It's like buying the first model of a car. Better to wait a couple two three years to let them get the bugs out. And where will D* be in 3 years. Better and better, I hope.

Rich


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Agreed. It's like buying the first model of a car. Better to wait a couple two three years to let them get the bugs out. And where will D* be in 3 years. Better and better, I hope.
> 
> Rich


LA HD DNS channels have now finished the migration from MPEG 2 to MPEG 4 and are available in the range of channel 390.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Are you actually seeing them right now in your guide or on your TV? 

My MPEG2 LA HD are indeed gone but I still see no channels in the 390's and my 2,4,7,11 channels are still SD. I restarted receiver in case that mattered but still nothing.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Are you actually seeing them right now in your guide or on your TV?
> 
> My MPEG2 LA HD are indeed gone but I still see no channels in the 390's and my 2,4,7,11 channels are still SD. I restarted receiver in case that mattered but still nothing.


are you getting 480 and 481 (the MPEG 4 test channels)


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Nope, I don't see any 480 or 481 in guide either.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Nope, I don't see any 480 or 481 in guide either.


what receiver do you have and what dish do you have. I have been getting the HD MPEG-4 LA DNS feeds since Janurary ion the 390's, and the 2,4, etc channels in HD MPEG-4 for over a year and 1/2....

Do you use Favorites channel lists? If so you must add the channels... I would just add all the small numbers... 2,4,5,7,9,11,13.... no need to add the channels in the 390's as well....


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

I'm in an MDU, btw. We are still MFH1 and we do *not* have a Ka/Ku dish on the roof as channel 85 now says is required. 

Called Sysop today and they reiterated that MDU's do not require Ka/Ku dish and/or b-convertors and we should ignore that message. My understanding is that these LA HD DNS are up on one of the MPEG2 sats we're already pointing at so only thing required to get them is a MPEG4 receiver. Is that correct?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Nope, I don't see any 480 or 481 in guide either.


You're probably on a "Custom" list. Change to "All Channels" and you should see them.... or you can just edit your "Custom" list.

~Alan


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> what receiver do you have and what dish do you have. I have been getting the HD MPEG-4 LA DNS feeds since Janurary ion the 390's, and the 2,4, etc channels in HD MPEG-4 for over a year and 1/2....
> 
> Do you use Favorites channel lists? If so you must add the channels... I would just add all the small numbers... 2,4,5,7,9,11,13.... no need to add the channels in the 390's as well....


Are you in an MFH1 MDU? I have an HR21. Not sure what dish(es) are on our roof by Sysop says no change required up there for these new LA HD DNS. Our MFH2 upgrade will be sometime this summer and then we'll get all those MPEG4 HD channels.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Alan Gordon said:


> You're probably on a "Custom" list. Change to "All Channels" and you should see them.... or you can just edit your "Custom" list.
> 
> ~Alan


Nope, I changed from Channels I Get to All Channels just to be safe.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

BTW, does anyone know when DirecTV intends to offer the East Coast HD-DNS feeds in MPEG4 and start that transition?

~Alan


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> I'm in an MDU, btw. We are still MFH1 and we do *not* have a Ka/Ku dish on the roof as channel 85 now says is required.
> 
> Called Sysop today and they reiterated that MDU's do not require Ka/Ku dish and/or b-convertors and we should ignore that message. My understanding is that these LA HD DNS are up on one of the MPEG2 sats we're already pointing at so only thing required to get them is a MPEG4 receiver. Is that correct?


I'm not familiar enough with MDU's, but I believe your right for the DNS feeds... You should jump on your building about upgrading... your missing a lot of HD.... From what has been said around here, even those feeds will be turned off in August, and you will have to have the 5-lnb and Ka/Ku dishes....


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Are you in an MFH1 MDU? I have an HR21. Not sure what dish(es) are on our roof by Sysop says no change required up there for these new LA HD DNS. Our MFH2 upgrade will be sometime this summer and then we'll get all those MPEG4 HD channels.


These are MPEG4 HD and require BBCs, you won't see them until you go MFH2


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Yup, getting all 4 in the 390's up here in Santa Rosa.

How long has 384/385 been labeled CW and PBS? Just noticed that...


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## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Nope, I changed from Channels I Get to All Channels just to be safe.


Might not happen until tomorrow unless it's an April fool prank.  See the post here.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I'm not familiar enough with MDU's, but I believe your right for the DNS feeds... You should jump on your building about upgrading... your missing a lot of HD.... From what has been said around here, even those feeds will be turned off in August, and you will have to have the 5-lnb and Ka/Ku dishes....


Trust me, I've been on their case about MPEG4 upgrade... so much so that the HOA created a technology subcommittee and appointed me as the only member. lol.

So now I bug our MDU provider directly about this and the best they will say is sometime this summer. MFH1 (old MPEG2) to MFH2 (new MPEG4) is substantial equipment upgrade for them, especially for MDU's like mine w/451 units and they have a lot of MDU's to upgrade.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Trust me, I've been on their case about MPEG4 upgrade... so much so that the HOA created a technology subcommittee and appointed me as the only member. lol.
> 
> So now I bug our MDU provider directly about this and the best they will say is sometime this summer. MFH1 (old MPEG2) to MFH2 (new MPEG4) is substantial equipment upgrade for them, especially for MDU's like mine w/451 units and they have a lot of MDU's to upgrade.


Are you the same Stephen M. Smith from the UI-View list? Not that the name is that uncommon, but seeing it signed the same way has me wondering.

(Stephen is an acquaintance from ham radio stuff, so please forgive the OT question)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> I'm not familiar enough with MDU's, but I believe your right for the DNS feeds... You should jump on your building about upgrading... your missing a lot of HD.... From what has been said around here, even those feeds will be turned off in August, and you will have to have the 5-lnb and Ka/Ku dishes....





Stephen M. Smith said:


> Trust me, I've been on their case about MPEG4 upgrade... so much so that the HOA created a technology subcommittee and appointed me as the only member. lol.
> 
> So now I bug our MDU provider directly about this and the best they will say is sometime this summer. MFH1 (old MPEG2) to MFH2 (new MPEG4) is substantial equipment upgrade for them, especially for MDU's like mine w/451 units and they have a lot of MDU's to upgrade.


I thought DirecTV was supposed to begin temporarily transmitting the HD west DNS feeds in MPEG-4 on the Ku band 101 and 119 satellites for this very reason Stephen is experiencing. Mainly for the benefit of MDU providers who have not yet upgraded all their units to MFH2, but who's tenants have H/HR/20/21 MPEG-4 capable receivers?


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> I thought DirecTV was supposed to begin temporarily transmitting the HD west DNS feeds in MPEG-4 on the Ku band 101 and 119 satellites for this very reason Stephen is experiencing. Mainly for the benefit of MDU providers who have not yet upgraded all their units to MFH2, but who's tenants have H/HR/20/21s receivers.


it was my understanding that the 110 and 119 had no Mpeg 4 capability


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

hasan said:


> Are you the same Stephen M. Smith from the UI-View list? Not that the name is that uncommon, but seeing it signed the same way has me wondering.
> 
> (Stephen is an acquaintance from ham radio stuff, so please forgive the OT question)


Nope, that is not me. However, I am the official Stephen M. Smith! Please have your friend change his name asap to avoid potential confusion and law suits.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

HoTat2 said:


> I thought DirecTV was supposed to begin temporarily transmitting the HD west DNS feeds in MPEG-4 on the Ku band 101 and 119 satellites for this very reason Stephen is experiencing. Mainly for the benefit of MDU providers who have not yet upgraded all their units to MFH2, but who's tenants have H/HR/20/21 MPEG-4 capable receivers?


Yeah, that's what is blowing my mind as well. The whole purpose of these particular LA HD DNS channels is so they sysops can get a little more time to upgrade their MDU's to Ka/Ku and MFH2. Putting them on one of the MPEG2 sats was the original plan according to Earle. Not sure why this would change. Now they need to visit every one of their properties and upgrade the dishes?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> it was my understanding that the 110 and 119 had no Mpeg 4 capability


There is really no such of a thing as an MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 satellite. As it is basically just a spaceborne radio repeater, that is transparent to the nature of the signal's compression format it relays.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> There is really no such of a thing as an MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 satellite. As it is basically just a spaceborne radio repeater, that is transparent to the nature of the signal's compression format it relays.


if that is the case, why did Directv rent the spaceways satellites. they should have been able to convert the transponders that the HD locals and the other Mpeg 2 HD were on to MPEG 4 which would double the bandwidth. once a satellite is spacebourne, there is no way to change the type of transponders that are on it. evidence the spaceways conus which turned out to be useless


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

curt8403 said:


> if that is the case, why did Directv rent the spaceways satellites. they should have been able to convert the transponders that the HD locals and the other Mpeg 2 HD were on to MPEG 4 which would double the bandwidth. once a satellite is spacebourne, there is no way to change the type of transponders that are on it. evidence the spaceways conus which turned out to be useless


can you clarify this statement i dont get what you are saying.

The spaceways arent rented they were acquired.... and to my understanding is that they can generate spot beams in varying sizes....


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

drx792 said:


> can you clarify this statement i dont get what you are saying.
> 
> The spaceways arent rented they were acquired.... and to my understanding is that they can generate spot beams in varying sizes....


Conus, not spotbeam.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I thought DirecTV was supposed to begin temporarily transmitting the HD west DNS feeds in MPEG-4 on the Ku band 101 and 119 satellites for this very reason Stephen is experiencing. Mainly for the benefit of MDU providers who have not yet upgraded all their units to MFH2, but who's tenants have H/HR/20/21 MPEG-4 capable receivers?


I was under that impression too, but I know the channels in the 390's have been coming from D10... I figured they were going to keep the stations in the 80's and use MPEG-4 feeds from 110 or 119 for them.... Maybe all the HD they have on today for baseball and other things has all their attention and they forgot to flip a switch?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

curt8403 said:


> if that is the case, why did Directv rent the spaceways satellites. they should have been able to convert the transponders that the HD locals and the other Mpeg 2 HD were on to MPEG 4 which would double the bandwidth. once a satellite is spacebourne, there is no way to change the type of transponders that are on it. evidence the spaceways conus which turned out to be useless


As someone else said, they basically acquired the spaceways, and have determined that they are best used as spot beam satellites. I have still seen no proof that they were useless for conus. Their spotbeams are more advanced than D10's and they add bandwidth to Directv that they would not have if they weren't up there. They are broadcasting many LIL's right now from the spaceways... And the spaceways have never broadcast anything not in MPEG-4 format.

And Directv isn't ready to switch out everyones receivers to MPEG-4 receivers. That is happening slowly now though.... Also, if they clear out the HD completely from 101, 110, and 119, it will allow them to use less compression for the sd channels, and hopefully give us better pic quality on those channels....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

curt8403 said:


> Conus, not spotbeam.


All beams can be of varying sizes.... and pointed pretty much anywhere they want.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> All beams can be of varying sizes.... and pointed pretty much anywhere they want.


except for the 1500 element phased array, 2m diameter, forming multiple hopping spot beams which were supposed to act like Conus, and did not.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> Conus, not spotbeam.


No, while it is theoretically possible for the Spaceway 1 and 2 birds to generate maybe a single CONUS beam they are solely spot beam satellites. However their newer partners D10 and soon D11 have both CONUS and spot beam capabilities.

As for why DirecTV is now (starting with the HD DNS west channels) beginning to transfer their legacy HD MPEG-2 channels from 101/110/ and 119 to the Ka band at 99 and 103, instead of transmitting them in MPEG-4 on the same Ku band transponders, which is what I think your question was referring to. The answer is they could, but for whatever reason DirecTV is clearing space primarily on the 110 and 119 satellites' CONUS beams.

For what in the future exactly? I'm not really sure.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> No, while it is theoretically possible for the Spaceway 1 and 2 birds to generate maybe a single CONUS beam they are solely spot beam satellites. However their newer partners D10 and soon D11 have both CONUS and spot beam capabilities.
> 
> As for why DirecTV is now (starting with the HD DNS west channels) beginning to transfer their legacy HD MPEG-2 channels from 101/110/ and 119 to the Ka band at 99 and 103, instead of transmitting them in MPEG-4 on the same Ku band transponders, which is what I think your question was referring to. The answer is they could, but for whatever reason DirecTV is clearing space primarily on the 110 and 119 satellites' CONUS beams.
> 
> For what in the future exactly? I'm not really sure.


I think we will all be shocked and amazed soon


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

curt8403 said:


> I think we will all be shocked and amazed soon


:dance01:

I am guessing part of the reason is so they can move all the 72.5 programing to other sats, and that some of that will be going to 110 and 119, as well as maybe some international programing...


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> :dance01:
> 
> I am guessing part of the reason is so they can move all the 72.5 programing to other sats, and that some of that will be going to 110 and 119, as well as maybe some international programing...


And possibly the International Channels from 95-deg W.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

You are correct .... however it isn't "tomorrow" yet when this is supposed to be completed.

If DirecTV changed their mind there will be alot of very unhappy mdu system operators (and customers, of course). Sysops were informed by DirecTV numerous times over the last 3 months that the LA HD channels will remain on the Ku sats in MPEG4 format until 8/31/08. They were also informed that the existing few MPEG2HD channels will remain "until AT LEAST the end of 2008."

This info came directly from DirecTV's mdu division.



HoTat2 said:


> I thought DirecTV was supposed to begin temporarily transmitting the HD west DNS feeds in MPEG-4 on the Ku band 101 and 119 satellites for this very reason Stephen is experiencing. Mainly for the benefit of MDU providers who have not yet upgraded all their units to MFH2, but who's tenants have H/HR/20/21 MPEG-4 capable receivers?


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> You are correct .... however it isn't "tomorrow" yet when this is supposed to be completed.
> 
> If DirecTV changed their mind there will be alot of very unhappy mdu system operators (and customers, of course). Sysops were informed by DirecTV numerous times over the last 3 months that the LA HD channels will remain on the Ku sats in MPEG4 format until 8/31/08. They were also informed that the existing few MPEG2HD channels will remain "until AT LEAST the end of 2008."
> 
> This info came directly from DirecTV's mdu division.


That is exactly what our sysop still insists -- no Ka/Ku dish required. They're still quoting the switchover as occurring at 3am tonight so we'll see. Unfortunately, several others here have confirmed that the "switchover" already occurred. Our MPEG2 LA HD DNS are gone, but we ain't got nothing in the 390's via th 3-lnb dish that's still on the roof.

I'm a little confused about this -- can an MFH1 MDU get the MPEG4 LA HD DNS with *just *a Ka/Ku dish swapout on the roof and the existing MFH1 equipment?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> I'm a little confused about this -- can an MFH1 MDU get the MPEG4 LA HD DNS with *just *a Ka/Ku dish swapout on the roof and the existing MFH1 equipment?


Not only can you get it with existing MFH1 equipment, but you don't even need a KaKu dish for now.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> That is exactly what our sysop still insists -- no Ka/Ku dish required. They're still quoting the switchover as occurring at 3am tonight so we'll see. Unfortunately, several others here have confirmed that the "switchover" already occurred. Our MPEG2 LA HD DNS are gone, but we ain't got nothing in the 390's via th 3-lnb dish that's still on the roof.
> 
> I'm a little confused about this -- can an MFH1 MDU get the MPEG4 LA HD DNS with *just *a Ka/Ku dish swapout on the roof and the existing MFH1 equipment?


You know, I have to wonder if maybe those channels aren't up today because of how much work it is to tell a transponder to pass an MPEG-4 stream instead of the old MPEG-2 stream, and maybe thats why you can't see the channels, that they needed a day with the transponder free to change it over. I can't really see a true reason there, but there must be something we are missing.

The 390's have been coming to us from D10. I know this for a fact. However, I wonder if they are going to be moved at 3 am to 101? or will they leave them there and add back channels in the 80's that are mpeg-4 from the 110 and 119 slots. Of course that would mean that Directv was broadcasting 3 feeds of LA big 4 networks to the LA market, all in MPEG-4, so I think that would be a bit ridiculous....


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> You know, I have to wonder if maybe those channels aren't up today because of how much work it is to tell a transponder to pass an MPEG-4 stream instead of the old MPEG-2 stream, and maybe thats why you can't see the channels, that they needed a day with the transponder free to change it over. I can't really see a true reason there, but there must be something we are missing.


DirecTV tested out MPEG4 on the KU satellites before. It doesn't matter when the stream is encoded in...

[/QUOTE]The 390's have been coming to us from D10. I know this for a fact. However, I wonder if they are going to be moved at 3 am to 101? or will they leave them there and add back channels in the 80's that are mpeg-4 from the 110 and 119 slots. Of course that would mean that Directv was broadcasting 3 feeds of LA big 4 networks to the LA market, all in MPEG-4, so I think that would be a bit ridiculous.... [/QUOTE]

The 390's have indeed been broadcasting from D10 as DirecTV did not have room for them on the KU satellites. Odds are good that DirecTV has not turned the MPEG4 feeds from the KU satellites on yet to make sure everything is uplinked properly since they couldn't uplink them to the KU satellites until the MPEG2 HD-DNS was turned off. That shouldn't be an issue when they get around to turning off the MPEG2 East Coast HD-DNS due to additional space created from swapping to MPEG4 for the West Coast HD-DNS unless they choose to go ahead and fill that capacity. In fact, they could simply start offering the East Coast HD-DNS on the KU satellites now thanks to the MPEG4 conversion... and save the space on the KA satellite for additional HD nationals or (depending on the Spot-Beam situation, more HD-LIL).

Also, there doesn't appear to be much of a reason for DirecTV to put the HD DNS back in the 80s as they can simply leave them there in the 390 range.

As for the three feeds, DirecTV could have removed the "Big Four" LA HD-LIL from the spot-beam and simply used the CONUS feeds used for HD-DNS to provide LA HD-LIL allowing them to offer additional LA HD-LIL channels. If they hadn't, I see no reason for them not to do that now.

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I have to wonder if maybe those channels aren't up today because of how much work it is to tell a transponder to pass an MPEG-4 stream instead of the old MPEG-2 stream


Transponders have absolutely no knowledge of MPEG2 or MPEG4. They simply do not care. All of the encoding takes place on Earth, the transponders just beam down what is sent up. MPEG2, MPEG4, MP3, WMV, doesn't matter. DirecTV can send up any codec they want, and the transponder will faithfully send it right back down.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Transponders have absolutely no knowledge of MPEG2 or MPEG4. They simply do not care. All of the encoding takes place on Earth, the transponders just beam down what is sent up. MPEG2, MPEG4, MP3, WMV, doesn't matter. DirecTV can send up any codec they want, and the transponder will faithfully send it right back down.


That I know and understand, I was more thinking about how they might have to re task the equipment at the broadcast facility in El Segundo to send the MPEG-4 stream instead of the MPEG-2 stream to a transponder that they have never done that with before. Like I said, I still can''t see this is a plausible reason...


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Well guess what? The new LA HD channels did indeed show up for us at 3am PST. Now they're in my guide and I watching them now, even though we still have just the same 3 old lnb's on our roof. So they're up somewhere on 101, 110 and/or 119 now.

I guess I should be excited but it also means now our MDU sysop can take even longer to get around to the MFH2 upgrade we need to get all the other 100+ MPEG4 HD channels that everyone else already has.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

You sure about that? DirecTV informed us MPEG4 equipment would be required. (ie: it would be MPEG4 signal off of Ku sats).



Jeremy W said:


> Not only can you get it with existing MFH1 equipment, but you don't even need a KaKu dish for now.


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## Plumsicle (Apr 1, 2008)

Hey guys, I'm new to DBSTalk. I came here as I was searching for information on AVSForum.

We had our 5 LNB dish installed a few months ago here in NY but we did not receive a HD receiver upgrade. I currently have the H10 receiver. On my DirecTV account it says that I have an H20 now though, which is a lie. Was my receiver supposed to get upgraded along with the satellite? If so, do you think I can use this as leverage to upgrade 2 D11's to 2 HD receivers out of them as I just upgraded two of my TV's?

Thanks,
-Plums


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> You sure about that? DirecTV informed us MPEG4 equipment would be required. (ie: it would be MPEG4 signal off of Ku sats).


Yes, MPEG4 equipment is necessary, but the MFH1 distribution equipment can handle it.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks .... I beleive that's what I said. 

Your original message confused me when it said "Not only can you get it with existing MFH1 equipment" .... I thought you meant the MPEG2 receivers which we call MFH1 compatible equipment. At MFH2 converted properties MPEG2 equipment will no longer function since the legacy ports aren't brought into the units from the swm's due to the number of homeruns required.



Jeremy W said:


> Yes, MPEG4 equipment is necessary, but the MFH1 distribution equipment can handle it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> I thought you meant the MPEG2 receivers which we call MFH1 compatible equipment.


Different backgrounds, different terminology, talking about the same thing.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> Thanks .... I beleive that's what I said.
> 
> Your original message confused me when it said "Not only can you get it with existing MFH1 equipment" .... I thought you meant the MPEG2 receivers which we call MFH1 compatible equipment. At MFH2 converted properties MPEG2 equipment will no longer function since the legacy ports aren't brought into the units from the swm's due to the number of homeruns required.


Is there absolutely postively no way it would be possible to stack MFH1 and MFH2 on same coax? My Sysop told me my HDVR2 would continue to function just fine alongside HR21 getting all the MPEG4 programming via SWM after MFH2 upgrade, so no need to replace it. But I'm not sure if he was forgetting that there is only a single coax line entering each unit.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Is there absolutely postively no way it would be possible to stack MFH1 and MFH2 on same coax?


There is no way to do it. If it could be done, there would be no need for the legacy ports on the SWM.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

That's what I thought . It's an either/or situation. I can either get MFH2 MPEG4 via SWM or MFH1 MPEG2 via my existing mess of splitters and destackers, both not both at same time w/just one coax.


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## vonzoog (Jul 23, 2005)

Plumsicle said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to DBSTalk. I came here as I was searching for information on AVSForum.
> 
> We had our 5 LNB dish installed a few months ago here in NY but we did not receive a HD receiver upgrade. I currently have the H10 receiver. On my DirecTV account it says that I have an H20 now though, which is a lie. Was my receiver supposed to get upgraded along with the satellite? If so, do you think I can use this as leverage to upgrade 2 D11's to 2 HD receivers out of them as I just upgraded two of my TV's?
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard.

Yes I believe you have an honest shot at it. Stay cool and polite and keep trying. It's sounds as if it was their mistake in the first place.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Some properties have dual home-runs and are capable of both services but that depends on how the building was originally contructed. Also it depends on how many units are on a floor or in a building and WHERE the SWM is located. If it is located in a hallway outside the unit for example only one wire would be needed to be run to a unit and could be split to 8 tuners but that would not be the legacy run. The legacy DVR requires two wires from the SWM. In hi-rises with 500 units running legacy equipment isn't practical unless every unit has a swm inside (which they won't).


Stephen M. Smith said:


> Is there absolutely postively no way it would be possible to stack MFH1 and MFH2 on same coax? My Sysop told me my HDVR2 would continue to function just fine alongside HR21 getting all the MPEG4 programming via SWM after MFH2 upgrade, so no need to replace it. But I'm not sure if he was forgetting that there is only a single coax line entering each unit.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Well, that is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. Here is my plan: 

Assuming my SWM module is put in the communication closet right outside my door instead of in the master room on the 9th floor, then it would be easy to pull another coax into unit in addition to my current one. My existing coax currently feeds 4-6 tuners via mess of splitters/destackers/etc. I would keep part of that mess for 2 MFH1/MPEG2 tuners (HDVR2), but and use newly pulled coax to feed MFH2/MPEG4 directly to HR21 via SWM. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Well, that is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. Here is my plan:
> 
> Assuming my SWM module is put in the communication closet right outside my door instead of in the master room on the 9th floor, then it would be easy to pull another coax into unit in addition to my current one. My existing coax currently feeds 4-6 tuners via mess of splitters/destackers/etc. I would keep part of that mess for 2 MFH1/MPEG2 tuners (HDVR2), but and use newly pulled coax to feed MFH2/MPEG4 directly to HR21 via SWM. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?


Curious, are there hardwired network connections at all the locations you have a Directv box, and how many actual boxes do you have?


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Yep, I have a pair of phone, cat5, and coax outlets (on opposite walls) in every room along w/a distribution box in my closet. I reversed one of them so I have a pair of each of these connections on one wall, which is where all my stuff is. Currently, one of those 2 coax outlets feeds my destacking mess of crap required to extract the 4-6 tuners. I say 4-6 b/c my MFH1 setup is a HDVR2 for SD and a HR10-250 for HD. I'm replacing the HR10-250 w/my new HR21, but demanded some overlap time from sysop, which they were kind enough to give me. All 3 DVR's are stacked on top of each other in this location.

I do have an internal wiring issue to resolve for this to work-- I currently use the other coax outlet in this setup to distribute the output of my HDVR2 to a bedroom tv. MFH1/MFH2 config will require me to dedicate this coax to SWM input for HR21, so will have to create different path to bedroom tv.

Why do you ask about cat5 connections? There are 2 at this location and I do use 1 for HR21 just to see the DOD stuff but I don't care about DOD or media sharing. Sure would love to use cat5 to get SWM to this outlet though!! That would solve my bedroom tv prob.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Why do you ask about cat5 connections? There are 2 at this location and I do use 1 for HR21 just to see the DOD stuff but I don't care about DOD or media sharing. Sure would love to use cat5 to get SWM to this outlet though!! That would solve my bedroom tv prob.


There has been speculation that when Multi Room Viewing (MRV) is enabled, an HR2x DVR will be able to serve HD video to an HD DirecTV receiver that is not connected to any satellite coax feeds and is only connected to the server DVR by a CAT5 cable.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Yep, I have a pair of phone, cat5, and coax outlets (on opposite walls) in every room along w/a distribution box in my closet. I reversed one of them so I have a pair of each of these connections on one wall, which is where all my stuff is. Currently, one of those 2 coax outlets feeds my destacking mess of crap required to extract the 4-6 tuners. I say 4-6 b/c my MFH1 setup is a HDVR2 for SD and a HR10-250 for HD. I'm replacing the HR10-250 w/my new HR21, but demanded some overlap time from sysop, which they were kind enough to give me. All 3 DVR's are stacked on top of each other in this location.
> 
> I do have an internal wiring issue to resolve for this to work-- I currently use the other coax outlet in this setup to distribute the output of my HDVR2 to a bedroom tv. MFH1/MFH2 config will require me to dedicate this coax to SWM input for HR21, so will have to create different path to bedroom tv.
> 
> Why do you ask about cat5 connections? There are 2 at this location and I do use 1 for HR21 just to see the DOD stuff but I don't care about DOD or media sharing. Sure would love to use cat5 to get SWM to this outlet though!! That would solve my bedroom tv prob.


I ask, because if your at all interested in MRV, and based off of what you just told me, I would want 2 HR2 boxes, one in the bedroom, one in the main room, and have them networked. All your problems are solved, because you can watch anything from either unit on either tv, you will only need the one cable to each room since its going to all be SWM. However, When MRV is released will have an affect on whether or not this is a viable option immediately, or sometime down the road...

Also... if you aren't using your network jack next to the bedroom tv and your not going to use DOD, you could use something like this to get your signals from your main tv to your bedroom tv...

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=5301

Actually, you could put everything in your closet and run all your signals to both rooms using some of the stuff they sell. It is a bit expensive, although I believe others offer similar products for less.... This could solve your issue before MRV is out.

Anyway.. I was just thinking you have time before your building upgrades, so if MRV come out before that happens, you may want to be aware of other possibilities, and just keep an open mind about it all...

Frankly, there are quite a few options you have, and some of them simply depend on timing... MRV if out in time, is the best way to go, in my opinion...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> There has been speculation that when Multi Room Viewing (MRV) is enabled, an HR2x DVR will be able to serve HD video to an HD DirecTV receiver that is not connected to any satellite coax feeds and is only connected to the server DVR by a CAT5 cable.


Actuarially, that would be more like a video client box, rather than an actual sat box... they'd save by not having to build them with tuners, yet I am sure they would still have to be rented

However, there is also speculation that you will be able to access recorded content from an HR2 on an H21... that would also be interesting.... and remove his need for 2 DVR's if he doesn't record much programing, but if your like me, even if you only watch 4 shows a week, they are always on different channels at the exact same time, so I'd always want at least 4 tuners...


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I ask, because if your at all interested in MRV, and based off of what you just told me, I would want 2 HR2 boxes, one in the bedroom, one in the main room, and have them networked. All your problems are solved, because you can watch anything from either unit on either tv, you will only need the one cable to each room since its going to all be SWM. However, When MRV is released will have an affect on whether or not this is a viable option immediately, or sometime down the road...
> 
> Also... if you aren't using your network jack next to the bedroom tv and your not going to use DOD, you could use something like this to get your signals from your main tv to your bedroom tv...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've been many, many options that almost, but not quite, work due to my specific equipment (TV's, receiver, etc). I want to keep all the DVR's and other equipment in same spot and then distribute SD and HD to 2 TV's. I ran a HDMI line from the spot to bedroom TV but didn't realize some limitations once I had all my equipment up, namely, having both DVR's viewable independently from 2 locations using 2 different HD resolutions and one w/hdmi audio, the other without. Easier said than done! Especially b/c I'd like to avoid dropping $500 on something like that Geffen product when I know

HR21 makes this a lot easier due to all outputs active, and I would love to consolidate both HR10-250 and HDVR2 into my one new HR21 but can't do to the 50 SP limit and some functionality that I depend on in my TiVo-based unit that doesn't exist in HR series yet. So I just want hang on my HDVR2 a little while longer to give HR software time to catch up, while at same time getting all those MPEG4 HD channels on my HR21.

Can you guestimate timeframe for MRV? Our MFH2 ain't coming for a while. I've been bugging HOA about for a while, enough that they created a special tech committee of one (ie. me) and now I'm in charge of it. First thing I learn -- they got not idea what the h*ll I've been talking about all this time!! So I have a lot of work to get it accepted and approved by HOA before we can even schedule MFH2 upgrade w/our sysop.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Actuarially, that would be more like a video client box, rather than an actual sat box... they'd save by not having to build them with tuners, yet I am sure they would still have to be rented
> 
> However, there is also speculation that you will be able to access recorded content from an HR2 on an H21... that would also be interesting.... and remove his need for 2 DVR's if he doesn't record much programing, but if your like me, even if you only watch 4 shows a week, they are always on different channels at the exact same time, so I'd always want at least 4 tuners...


That's why I need to keep my HDVR2 around for a while -- I don't watch TV more than a couple hours a day, but I consume like 10 hours of recordings in that time by skipping over crap I don't care about. I don't watch LiveTV hardly ever, only recordings, so I have 80+ active season passes on HDVR2. I depend on periodically checking the WishList report for all my pre-defined searches on TiVo to see if there's anything upcoming that might interest me. HR21 just doesn't work this way (yet, I hope).

I have grown accustomed to never worrying about scheduling conflicts due to 4 tuners, so I'd want 2 DVR's regardless. MRV will let get HD to my bedroom TV via coax cable, then distribution problem resolved, leaving only the "replace HDVR2 w/another HR21" problem above.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Yeah, I've been many, many options that almost, but not quite, work due to my specific equipment (TV's, receiver, etc). I want to keep all the DVR's and other equipment in same spot and then distribute SD and HD to 2 TV's. I ran a HDMI line from the spot to bedroom TV but didn't realize some limitations once I had all my equipment up, namely, having both DVR's viewable independently from 2 locations using 2 different HD resolutions and one w/hdmi audio, the other without. Easier said than done! Especially b/c I'd like to avoid dropping $500 on something like that Geffen product when I know
> 
> HR21 makes this a lot easier due to all outputs active, and I would love to consolidate both HR10-250 and HDVR2 into my one new HR21 but can't do to the 50 SP limit and some functionality that I depend on in my TiVo-based unit that doesn't exist in HR series yet. So I just want hang on my HDVR2 a little while longer to give HR software time to catch up, while at same time getting all those MPEG4 HD channels on my HR21.
> 
> Can you guestimate timeframe for MRV? Our MFH2 ain't coming for a while. I've been bugging HOA about for a while, enough that they created a special tech committee of one (ie. me) and now I'm in charge of it. First thing I learn -- they got not idea what the h*ll I've been talking about all this time!! So I have a lot of work to get it accepted and approved by HOA before we can even schedule MFH2 upgrade w/our sysop.


No one has been given a clue as to when we will see MRV, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see it in the next 3 or 4 months, if not sooner, but you never know for sure. A lot of people have speculated that Media sharing is the groundwork for it....

Also, check out this product...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=3728&seq=1&format=2

It might help you in your distribution of signals in the digital world, and I can tell you monoprice probably has the same thing for SD as well... and its not expensive!!!!  Unfortunately out of stock at the moment, but I'm ordering one as soon as they get them...

Other than sports, I probably haven't watched any tv live in several years...

By the way, there are some ways to create wish list type searches, not exactly the same as tivo, but if you know a few specifics, there are ways.. PM me if you want to know more on that, I don't want to get to far off topic....


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

lol, yeah I got Monoprice's 1x2 splitter last week but discovered that my receiver will not recogonize hdmi signal if split through it. I believe the splitters, including the 4x2, require an active display w/edid on the other end to work. I need both of my DVR's simultaneously connected to both my receiver and the bedroom TV. Receiver upconverts everything to 1080p using superior Reon processing to feed plasma in living room. 

No probs splitting the output of the receiver to both TV's w/monoprice splitter but the best result I can get from that configuration is having to spend 5 minutes reconfiguring receiver every time I want to watch a different set, and then seeing the word "muting" on bedroom tv b/c I have to enable hdmi audio passthrough and then mute the receiver for bedroom tv. Hdmi splitting was only required for HR10-250, which I'll be retiring from service in a few days. I have no probs at all right now w/current setup: HR21 to receiver via component+coax digital, HR21 to bedroom TV via hdmi. HDVR2 to receiver via s-video+optical, HDVR2 to bedroom via in-wall coax. Thank you D* for making all outputs active on HR series!

It's not until our MFH2 upgrade when I'll have distribution issues to resolve: 1) pulling another coax into unit for SWM + MFH1 at same time (not even sure they'll let me do this), and then 2) get HDVR2 output to bedroom some other way than in-wall coax, which will have to be used for SWM input to HR21 instead HDVR2 rf video output as used today. I don't want get too off-topic either, but this has been very useful info for me. I'll bring it back on topic w/this question though: 

Are these temporary LA HD DNS channels in the 390's going to disappear on HR21 after it's MFH2/SWM? I notice that the 390's channels are *not* mirrored to my local channel numbers (2,4,7,11). Those are still SD for my HR21 getting MPEG4 LA HD off the old MFH1 sats. After MFH2, I will have to recreate all my season passes to these channels, right?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> lol, yeah I got Monoprice's 1x2 splitter last week but discovered that my receiver will not recogonize hdmi signal if split through it. I believe the splitters, including the 4x2, require an active display w/edid on the other end to work. I need both of my DVR's simultaneously connected to both my receiver and the bedroom TV. Receiver upconverts everything to 1080p using superior Reon processing to feed plasma in living room.
> 
> No probs splitting the output of the receiver to both TV's w/monoprice splitter but the best result I can get from that configuration is having to spend 5 minutes reconfiguring receiver every time I want to watch a different set, and then seeing the word "muting" on bedroom tv b/c I have to enable hdmi audio passthrough and then mute the receiver for bedroom tv. Hdmi splitting was only required for HR10-250, which I'll be retiring from service in a few days. I have no probs at all right now w/current setup: HR21 to receiver via component+coax digital, HR21 to bedroom TV via hdmi. HDVR2 to receiver via s-video+optical, HDVR2 to bedroom via in-wall coax. Thank you D* for making all outputs active on HR series!
> 
> ...


If the splitter wasn't powered, I can see you having all kinds of problems... If its powered I would haver thought it would work, and obviously splitting before your reciever is need to avoid the needing of reconfigureing your reciver all the time.. I feel for you. We all need a DO what I want box!!!!!

Directv has been broadcasting LA Locals in HD mapped to 2,4,5,7 and 11, for well over a year, but they have been off of a spotbeam on Spaceway 1 and moved in November to D10. by the way, they have 9 and 13 up now too... But until they upgrade your system, your stuck with DNS feeds.... They have never actually remapped the channels in the lower area from the conus beams off the dns feeds for some reason, and no one has been able to really explain why, although I have my thoughts.... I believe the DNS feeds you see today will move to D10 or D11 at some point, but that won't really matter to you once you can pick up D10 and D11 because then you'll have all the LILs at their regular station numbers


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Which means... come MFH2, all the season passes I have currently created for LD HD DNS in 390's channels will die and have to be recreated using the spot beam LA locals in the 2-11 channels, true?

I am confused why this channel move affects MDU's differently than everyone else in same situation. The DirecTv message on channel 85 was clearly addressed to someone *other *than peeps like me in MDU's b/c those peeps needed Ka/Ku dish to get the new 390's HD, and then for them (but not me in MDU), their local channels at top of guide are HD (so says Channel 85) So who are they talking to exactly in this message??? Single-families around here that hadn't yet bothered to change their dish to get all the great MPEG4 HD?

My Monoprice 1x2 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10113&cs_id=1011302&p_id=4072&seq=1&format=2) is powered, but it (and I think any powered HDMI splitter) will only work if outputs are connected to display devices that return EDID data, which is what they copy in order to split the signal and fool the source device. I got their $15 passive hdmi splitter too and will try it right now to see what it does....................... and it almost works! receiver accepts the hdmi and I get simultaneous video on both plasma from receiver and on bedroom lcd, but no audio (DD or PCM) at all for either.

Audio is another gotcha w/trying to use hdmi for everything -- I need 5.1 audio from HR21 to receiver but I need PCM to bedroom TV. This was a showstopper for HR10-250 but to my astonishment, HR21 does this! I have DD enabled and it sends DD out coax digital to receiver, but sends PCM out HDMI to bedroom TV. Another pleasant HR surprise that is making my TiVo transition a little easier.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> I am confused why this channel move affects MDU's differently than everyone else in same situation.


It doesn't. DirecTV just wants to give residential customers a swifter kick to the behind than they're giving MDUs. They'll still get the channels via Ku just like MDUs will.


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> It doesn't. DirecTV just wants to give residential customers a swifter kick to the behind than they're giving MDUs. They'll still get the channels via Ku just like MDUs will.


Ah, ok. I think I get it now. So that Channel 85 message is not a completely true statement for anyone out there still on MPEG2 and affected by this channel change. It states:

1) You need a new receiver

-- true for everyone affected by channel change​
2) You need a KaKu dish

-- not true for anyone!!!​
3) Your HD networks will now be in the 390's

-- only true for those in MFH1 MDU's​
4) Your HD networks will also be on the local channels numbers

-- not true for those in MFH1 MDU's​-- true for everyone else, but only b/c D* has just tricked them into upgrading their dish to Ka/Ku in addition to receiver, so now they're completely MPEG4 and just don't know it​


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Ah, ok. I think I get it now. So that Channel 85 message is not a completely true statement for anyone out there still on MPEG2 and affected by this channel change. It states:
> 
> 1) You need a new receiver
> 
> -- true for everyone affected by channel change​


Yes


Stephen M. Smith said:


> 2) You need a KaKu dish
> 
> -- not true for anyone!!!​


Yes, to an extent...to get everything they state you do need to upgrade the dish.


Stephen M. Smith said:


> 3) Your HD networks will now be in the 390's
> 
> -- only true for those in MFH1 MDU's​


No, this is true for everyone.


Stephen M. Smith said:


> 4) Your HD networks will also be on the local channels numbers
> 
> -- not true for those in MFH1 MDU's​


Yes, but if the MDU upgraded as stated, to a Ka capable system it would apply to them as well.


Stephen M. Smith said:


> -- true for everyone else, but only b/c D* has just tricked them into upgrading their dish to Ka/Ku in addition to receiver, so now they're completely MPEG4 and just don't know it​


I am sure there will be tons of subscribers totally upset that DIRECTV "tricked" them into upgrading to a system that get dozens of national HD channels...and no such thing as completely MPEG4 either.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Ah, ok. I think I get it now. So that Channel 85 message is not a completely true statement for anyone out there still on MPEG2 and affected by this channel change. It states:
> 
> 1) You need a new receiver
> 
> -- true for everyone affected by channel change​


Yep.. If you don't have MPEG-4 Equipment, then you won't get any HD LIL channels, or LA DNS HD feeds. Its a true statement, just slightly off on the time frames on 1/2 of the equipment that must be upgraded before September.



Stephen M. Smith said:


> 2) You need a KaKu dish
> 
> -- not true for anyone!!!​


Well, sort of.. This is not true today, but will be on September 1st when they move these stations to D10 or D11... And if Directv is going to send out a truck to that many peoples homes to swap receivers, they might as well swap the dishes as well and save time, and money, for customers and themselves. And frankly, anyone that is going MPEG-4 need the 5 lnb dish anyway to get all the other stuff, so.....



Stephen M. Smith said:


> 3) Your HD networks will now be in the 390's
> 
> -- only true for those in MFH1 MDU's​


Actually, that is true for anyone receiving LA HD DNS feeds, and will probably be true for as long as they offer LA DNS HD feeds. Those feeds are not at all geared toward anyone that lives in the LA DMA. Anyone living in LA with MPEG-4 should already be using the locally remapped stations because they are all there, and frankly, MDU's are the exception to the rule on this because of the hardware upgrades needed in your situations...



Stephen M. Smith said:


> 4) Your HD networks will also be on the local channels numbers
> 
> -- not true for those in MFH1 MDU's​-- true for everyone else, but only b/c D* has just tricked them into upgrading their dish to Ka/Ku in addition to receiver, so now they're completely MPEG4 and just don't know it​


Yeah, but thats because you haven't done the full equipment upgrade yet. Again, not all your locals are actually in the 390's. You are missing 5, 9, 13, and soon PBS... I look at it more like you are lucky that Directv supplies HD DNS feeds from LA, otherwise you wouldn't get any locals in HD until your hardware was upgraded. The 390's are the also channels, not the locally remapped channels...

I wouldn't say Directv is trying to trick anyone.. They just are trying to get things done at the customers homes 5 months early and all at once rather than making it a 2 step process. If your hardware is not upgraded by September, you will loose your HD DNS feeds from LA.... They just decided to give MDU's a little more time for the hardware upgrades. That decision could easily have been decided on after they originally announced the March 31st cut off date too....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Stephen M. Smith said:


> Which means... come MFH2, all the season passes I have currently created for LD HD DNS in 390's channels will die and have to be recreated using the spot beam LA locals in the 2-11 channels, true?


Your season passes won't die, but you might want to redo them. Since they will both be MPEG-4 feeds, it really won't matter. What will be nice, is that you can add season passes for HD recordings for anything you watch on 5, 9, and 13. (ok so I haven't seen HD on 13 in over a year, and the only thing I find it good for is Angels games...)



Stephen M. Smith said:


> I am confused why this channel move affects MDU's differently than everyone else in same situation. The DirecTv message on channel 85 was clearly addressed to someone *other *than peeps like me in MDU's b/c those peeps needed Ka/Ku dish to get the new 390's HD, and then for them (but not me in MDU), their local channels at top of guide are HD (so says Channel 85) So who are they talking to exactly in this message??? Single-families around here that hadn't yet bothered to change their dish to get all the great MPEG4 HD?


I would imagine that over half of the people that have been using the HD DNS LA feeds in MPEG-2 are people in LA that don't have MPEG-4 equipment, so they figured they may as well mention that the channels are remapped to the local numbers as well. Anyone outside of the LA DMA recieveing the channels in the 390's won't have these feeds in the lower channels of their guides, ever. And this channel change affects everyone the same, and you will see the full effect of that come September if your buildings hardware doesn't get upgraded by then.



Stephen M. Smith said:


> My Monoprice 1x2 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10113&cs_id=1011302&p_id=4072&seq=1&format=2) is powered, but it (and I think any powered HDMI splitter) will only work if outputs are connected to display devices that return EDID data, which is what they copy in order to split the signal and fool the source device. I got their $15 passive hdmi splitter too and will try it right now to see what it does....................... and it almost works! receiver accepts the hdmi and I get simultaneous video on both plasma from receiver and on bedroom lcd, but no audio (DD or PCM) at all for either.


Curious, did you ever try reversing the splitters outputs for the receiver and the tv?

Weird you get no audio... I'll ponder that...



Stephen M. Smith said:


> Audio is another gotcha w/trying to use hdmi for everything -- I need 5.1 audio from HR21 to receiver but I need PCM to bedroom TV. This was a showstopper for HR10-250 but to my astonishment, HR21 does this! I have DD enabled and it sends DD out coax digital to receiver, but sends PCM out HDMI to bedroom TV. Another pleasant HR surprise that is making my TiVo transition a little easier.


Thats weird... If you have DD activated, it should be going out your HDMI as well as your coax... Are you sure you have to have PCM to your other tv? I have no way to test my hdmi connection for DD pass through at this time. (although it is giving sound to my tv's via HDMI input, and I am getting DD via optical and coax from my boxes to my Denon receiver.)You are using your receivers hdmi switching yes? Can it pull DD off of the HDMI imput?


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I wouldn't say Directv is trying to trick anyone.. They just are trying to get things done at the customers homes 5 months early and all at once rather than making it a 2 step process. If your hardware is not upgraded by September, you will loose your HD DNS feeds from LA.... They just decided to give MDU's a little more time for the hardware upgrades. That decision could easily have been decided on after they originally announced the March 31st cut off date too....


I should've added from <g>'s and lol's when I said "D* tricked them" into fully upgrading for MPEG4. That's the best april fool's joke I've ever seen -- the only thing that irritates me is that they let my MDU sysop in on the secret so I'm still stuck w/MPEG2 via MFH1!

That's obviously a joke too, b/c sysop can't even do anything here until I get MFH2 approved by HOA board, but I am really surprised that sysop has not already brought this topic up w/HOA or property manager b/c didn't D* tell every MDU provider out there to get their properties upgraded to MFH2 ASAP??


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## Stephen M. Smith (Feb 25, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Curious, did you ever try reversing the splitters outputs for the receiver and the tv?
> 
> Weird you get no audio... I'll ponder that...


The audio only disappears when both outputs of the "hdmi y cable" are connected. If I disconnect one output so it's basically just an extension calbe, audio returns. A few others posted same issue in Monoprice's feedback tab for this item.



inkahauts said:


> Thats weird... If you have DD activated, it should be going out your HDMI as well as your coax... Are you sure you have to have PCM to your other tv? I have no way to test my hdmi connection for DD pass through at this time. (although it is giving sound to my tv's via HDMI input, and I am getting DD via optical and coax from my boxes to my Denon receiver.)You are using your receivers hdmi switching yes? Can it pull DD off of the HDMI imput?


I don't know if it's a bug or not, but I need to work this way! It appears there's some sort of hdmi "audio edid" data that it telling the HR21 if DD is supported? It's definitely PCM b/c the TV tells me so when switching to the input. Meanwhile, it's definitely simultaneous DD 5.1 via coax digital b/c my receiver (and ears) tells me so.

HR21 HDMI audio will remain PCM if I leave it's HDMI connection untouched and just hotplug the other end into TV or receiver. As soon as I hotplug HR21's HDMI connection then it resets and will send 5.1 if connected to receiver or PCM again if connected to TV. I'll ask in hdmi forum over at avsforum if this is part of the HDMI spec or something that just hasn't been implemented in many devices.


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