# 2 Wattage Ratings on One Pannny Plasma



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I called Panasonic today to find out what the difference is between _*"On Mode Average Power Consumption 318W"*_ and _*"Rated Power Consumption 675W"*_ and immediately was transferred to tech support. Nobody there could explain what was meant by the 318W rating. One "tech" actually told me that was the wattage with the screen-saver on. Told her that Panny plasmas don't have screen-savers, that befuddled her.

Anyhow, I got no help at all. Does anyone understand what that 318W rating is or means? Here's a *link* to the Panny tech specs page. Scroll down to the "General" heading and you'll see the two wattage ratings. I have no idea what the 318W rating means and I was on the phone for an hour, at least, and no one I talked to could tell me anything believable.

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I could be wrong, but I think that means the maximum voltage needed at power-up vs. what it consumes while you're watching. So 6-7 amps required for start-up only, and then it settles down to 3-4 amps.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

True or not, I dunno, but first reply makes sense. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090723211917AAIOOGk


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Steve said:


> I could be wrong, but I think that means the maximum voltage needed at power-up vs. what it consumes while you're watching. So 6-7 amps required for start-up only, and then it settles down to 3-4 amps.


I agree and would add that the average number they provide is what the device is likely to consume in most situations (brightness, audio level, etc.) but the higher number is what the device CAN consume if it's pushed to the limits of it's design (brightness cranked and very bright content, volume cranked, etc. cooling fans running on high, etc.).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bobukcat said:


> I agree and would add that the average number they provide is what the device is likely to consume in most situations (brightness, audio level, etc.) but the higher number is what the device CAN consume if it's pushed to the limits of it's design (brightness cranked and very bright content, volume cranked, etc. cooling fans running on high, etc.).


Ya. I have a 65S1 and I use Cinema (darkest) mode calibrated to 30 ftL's, so brightness and contrast are set somewhere in the 60's. If I used Vivid (brightest) mode, contrast 100, brightness 100 and the internal speakers at "theater" volume, I could see how it might consume 2x-3x normal.


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## koji68 (Jun 21, 2004)

Rated Power Consumption is the maximum power that an appliance will draw. Important to know so you provide the proper circuit.

The "On Average Power" seems to be marketing speak saying that most people will setup their TV in a way that will consume just that much.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> I could be wrong, but I think that means the maximum voltage needed at power-up vs. what it consumes while you're watching. So 6-7 amps required for start-up only, and then it settles down to 3-4 amps.


I thought of that. I know the what and why of the highest wattage rating. All electrical devices are required to put the highest possible wattage or amps on the device, preferably on the nameplate. What confuses me, and what Panasonic's tech center does NOT know, is anything about the smaller wattage rating. I asked the techs about that and told them that I don't use the audio system of the TVs as a rule and that I can't believe that the audio system could possibly use over 300W. So, I do realize that the 675W rating is the highest the TV would run at. Above that, I would expect the thermal protection to kick in and shut off the TV. Same with most electrical devices.

Then, I considered that Panasonic uses a 6 hour a day viewing period to get at their 42 year WAG that tells us that the TV should last 42 years.

So I multiplied 675Wx6 and got 4050W. Then I multiplied the standby wattage of .03W by 18 hours and got .54. Added that to 4050 and came up with 4050.54 and divided that by 24 and got 168W. So that's not how they are coming up with 318W.

I suppose I could get out my amp probe and see what the amperage draw on the TV is and multiply that by about 117 and get the actual wattage and see if that comes anywhere near 318W. I'd really be surprised if it did have that much variance.

Start up amperage, looking at an ammeter, comes and goes so quickly that I can't believe that the highest rating is startup amperage. I think that 675W is the highest constant draw that the circuitry will permit. So, while I wouldn't expect to see a constant, almost, 6 amps, I would think it would be pretty close.

What disturbs me is that Panasonic doesn't have techs that can explain what the 318W rating means and how they arrived at it. That's only 2.7 amps and most electrical devices are made to operate at or near the rated amperage. Motors are most economical when running at their rated amperage and the startup amperage isn't even required on the nameplate. That includes single and multi-phase motors.

What I'm trying to get is a plasma TV that isn't going to heat up a room so much that I have to employ two fans to keep the room cool enough to sit in it for three hours. It's not just the 50" Panny plasma (1080p) I have in the room now, the TV before it was also a 50" Panny plasma (720p) and the same thing happened.

I guess I'm just amazed and confused by the lack of simple electrical knowledge on the part of the folk at the Panny website. I called them with the expectation of getting a clear answer to this and got zip.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> True or not, I dunno, but first reply makes sense. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090723211917AAIOOGk


Read the link and the pertinent info and don't know whether to agree with the "best answer" or not. Over 300W less than the rated max is awfully low. But that's a guess on my part.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobukcat said:


> I agree and would add that the average number they provide is what the device is likely to consume in most situations (brightness, audio level, etc.) but the higher number is what the device CAN consume if it's pushed to the limits of it's design (brightness cranked and very bright content, volume cranked, etc. cooling fans running on high, etc.).


If I was certain that your answer is correct (and it's what I thought at first, before I called Panasonic) I'd go buy that TV today.

I just checked the manual for the 720p 50" Panny that used to be in that room and it is only 497W compared to 690W for the 1080p that is in the room now. But we still had/have the same heat problem with both. Probably wasn't as extreme as it is now with the 1080p set, but it seemed as if it was. This manual does NOT show an "On Mode Average Power Consumption" rating at all.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

koji68 said:


> Rated Power Consumption is the maximum power that an appliance will draw. Important to know so you provide the proper circuit.


Absolutely correct.



> The "On Average Power" seems to be marketing speak saying that most people will setup their TV in a way that will consume just that much.


But there are so many variables that you'd think they would detail how they reached that 318W rating.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Ya. I have a 65S1 and I use Cinema (darkest) mode calibrated to 30 ftL's, so brightness and contrast are set somewhere in the 60's. If I used Vivid (brightest) mode, contrast 100, brightness 100 and the internal speakers at "theater" volume, I could see how it might consume 2x-3x normal.


If you ran the TV at full blast it could not exceed the 675W for very long. If 318W were the rating of your TV at the settings that you use, the most you'd be able to do is just a little over double the 318W before you blew the power fuse in the TV or if they use a thermal device rather than a fuse or a CB, that thermal device would shut down the TV when it exceeded the rated high wattage for a period of time, and that period of time would be really short.

Rich


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## EUGENE BAXTER (Sep 9, 2008)

The 675 watts is the max watt requirements. Plasma HDTV vary the watts drawn depending the amount of bright material in the source. A completely white picture draws the max amount and completely black the least amount. Since most video material has varied amount of light and dark objects, the 318 watts is to give the owner a idea of the amount drawn under a typical set up and video sent.

ELB


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EUGENE BAXTER said:


> The 675 watts is the max watt requirements. Plasma HDTV vary the watts drawn depending the amount of bright material in the source. A completely white picture draws the max amount and completely black the least amount. Since most video material has varied amount of light and dark objects, the 318 watts is to give the owner a idea of the amount drawn under a typical set up and video sent.
> 
> ELB


That makes sense, but how do they determine that exact figure of 318W? That's what I need to know.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Awww, I just looked at the tech specs for the 2010 Panny plasmas and they don't even list the wattages of the TVs. They are mostly 3D. I would imagine that 3D would jack up the wattage rather than being in the 2D mode (which is outrageously gorgeous, by the way, wasn't too impressed by the 3D mode, you lose close to half the brightness of the 2D mode as soon as you put on the glasses).

Rich


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Awww, I just looked at the tech specs for the 2010 Panny plasmas and they don't even list the wattages of the TVs. They are mostly 3D. I would imagine that 3D would jack up the wattage rather than being in the 2D mode (which is outrageously gorgeous, by the way, wasn't too impressed by the 3D mode, you lose close to half the brightness of the 2D mode as soon as you put on the glasses).
> 
> Rich


Rated, Normal Operating for:
58" 599W 179W
65" 644W 214W

I've been drooling over a 65VT25, ever since I saw the 50VT25 over Memorial Day weekend.
[edit] I got those figures from the user manual which I d/l'd from Panasonic.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FHSPSU67 said:


> Rated, Normal Operating for:
> 58" 599W 179W
> 65" 644W 214W
> 
> ...


Ah, thanks. I'm also looking at the 65" model. Not gonna go for $4200, so I'll wait a while till the price drops to about half.

Did the manual explain how they determined the lower wattage rating?

Rich


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Ah, thanks. I'm also looking at the 65" model. Not gonna go for $4200, so I'll wait a while till the price drops to about half.
> 
> Did the manual explain how they determined the lower wattage rating?
> 
> Rich


Manual provides no info, but I seem to remember someone saying that their actual operating measurements (made with a "Kill-A-Watt") were approx 330 Watts for 2D, and 330 for 3D). I'll try and find it and edit this post, if different than this.

[edit] Alas, I cannot find my source so it's probably best to ignore my 230 and 330 numbers. I know Panasonic achieved their EnergyStar rating via a dim STANDARD mode setting, which no one in their right mind would use. When first turned on, it's in this STANDARD mode, which I'm sure has caused customer complaints (easy to fix) for CSR's to handle.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FHSPSU67 said:


> Manual provides no info, but I seem to remember someone saying that their actual operating measurements (made with a "Kill-A-Watt") were approx 330 Watts for 2D, and 330 for 3D). I'll try and find it and edit this post, if different than this.
> 
> [edit] Alas, I cannot find my source so it's probably best to ignore my 230 and 330 numbers. I know Panasonic achieved their EnergyStar rating via a dim STANDARD mode setting, which no one in their right mind would use. When first turned on, it's in this STANDARD mode, which I'm sure has caused customer complaints (easy to fix) for CSR's to handle.


Well, thanx for trying. That does clarify my question. I guess if I had a Panny plasma that had those ratings, I have six that don't, I could take my ammeter and put it on the power cord (I know how to do it, I know I can't just put it on the power cord) I could figure out what they are talking about.

Makes me reconsider the 65" new one. My 50" 1080p is rated at 690W on the nameplate and it heats the room up, so I can only speculate that the 65" at 644W would be about the same. I've been playing with my 1080p set and the settings that I have been running it at since I got it aren't over 50% of max, so I gotta figure that the settings aren't really at fault.

I did some research and set it at the "easy calibration" settings that I found and got a really crappy picture.

Makes me think that I've gotta do some more looking at LCD sets.

Rich


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

I bought one of these - easier than messing with an Amprobe.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internatio...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1281883931&sr=8-1]


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FHSPSU67 said:


> I bought one of these - easier that messing with an Amprobe.
> http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internatio...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1281883931&sr=8-1]


OK, I bought it. I do have a setup for an amp-probe that I made years ago, but I can't pass up gadgets like that. Thanx for the link.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FHSPSU67 said:


> I bought one of these - easier than messing with an Amprobe.
> http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internatio...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1281883931&sr=8-1]


Got the Kill-A-Watt yesterday and hooked it right up to the TV. Playing a BluRay disk, the TV ran at about 450-520W. So I have to assume that the second lower wattage rating is the actual running wattage.

Pretty neat gizmo. Didn't realize it had all those settings. Thanx again for the tip. The only thing they could have done better was put a back-light on the display, but that's just a minor annoyance.

I suppose I could get the wattage of my 50" Panny plasma down quite a bit if I played with the settings, but I like the TV the way it is. I did try a couple recommended settings for Panny plasmas that I found on the Internet and my wife came home from work and we sat down to watch TV and a few minutes later she asked me what was wrong with the TV. Put the old settings back in place and she told me to leave it alone. Used stronger language than that, but she got the message across.

Panasonic came out with a notice that a new line of Viera TVs will be coming out in September and the prices on the present TVs should drop then. I'd still like to get that 65" set. I'd happily pay around $2000 for it, but $4200 is pretty steep for a set that you know will quickly drop in price.

Thanx again,

Rich


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Got the Kill-A-Watt yesterday and hooked it right up to the TV. Playing a BluRay disk, the TV ran at about 450-520W. So I have to assume that the second lower wattage rating is the actual running wattage.
> 
> Pretty neat gizmo. Didn't realize it had all those settings. Thanx again for the tip. The only thing they could have done better was put a back-light on the display, but that's just a minor annoyance.
> 
> ...


You could make a sales guy life hell by asking them to plug in a floor model to the kill-a-watt meter before you buy.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> You could make a sales guy life hell by asking them to plug in a floor model to the kill-a-watt meter before you buy.


I have every intention of doing just that.

Rich


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