# 722 Operating Temperature



## redelephants (Aug 10, 2009)

After experiencing some intermittent problems with PQ, I am starting to wonder if my problems might be from an overheating receiver. After looking at the counter page, my average temp is 122. Low is 118 and high is 138. My receiver is located in an open faced entertainment tower, I have read where some were placing cool pad's underneath, but didn't really see many people convincing enough to purchase one. Any suggestions?


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

My 722's temperature numbers are:
High Temp: 138 F
Low Temp: 116 F
Average Temp: 127 F

It sits in the open and I've had no issues.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I've posted this before, but:

From Seagate's site (covers Seagate and Maxtor):

Most high speed hard drives are designed for an operational temperature of between 5 and 55°C (131°F). Ambient case temperatures above 55°C (131°F) or below 5°C (41°F) can decrease drive reliability, performance, and product life. 

From Western Digital's site:

The normal operating range for WD SCSI drives is 41 to 131 degrees Fahrenheit (5 to 55 degrees Celsius). Ensure that your system has adequate cooling to maintain this range. This may require forced air-cooling to meet specified operating temperatures.

In other words 131 degrees is the manufacturers' recommended MAXIMUM operating temperature.

Almost every one of us 622/722 owners have max temps above that 131 degrees. The obvious objective is to try to keep averages under 120 degrees, but that's tough to accomplish.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

There are a number of threads here that discuss drive temperature. If you search Drive Temp you will see threads. 

Mine is around the same as you have reported. 

As for Hard Drive Temp relating to PQ issues. Would need to know more about what your are a experiencing. There is a lot of others things that can effect PQ and if you are talking pixel break up then the first place to look is Signal quality, obstructions etc.


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## redelephants (Aug 10, 2009)

What I mean about picture quality is seeing macroblocking during motion, this is especially noticeable on red backgrounds. I have signal readings in the high 50's to mid 60's. If I pause and rewind in slow-mo, I can definetly see the macroblocking very good and actually will see frame by frame the picture tiling out with grey background. What is strange is that the picture quality varies and have noticed that on weekends (friday, saturday) my picture quality is best. I am watching HD on 51" tv. It seems to me that what I am seeing is compression artifacts, but it doesn't seem that everyone sees them so I am not sure that is what it is or not. As stated on a different site, most people view HD on a set smaller than 42". Obvisously if you step up to a bigger set, you will notice things in the picture you wouldn't on a smaller set. Its not my tv display refresh rate either because I can see the macroblocking in slow mo. I am lost at what could be the issue, other than compression artifacts. I guess to most people that view HD content they don't notice it but when you have your TV calibrated to a T it drives my crazy to see these things.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

phrelin said:


> ...
> Almost every one of us 622/722 owners have max temps above that 131 degrees. The obvious objective is to try to keep averages under 120 degrees, but that's tough to accomplish.


The unknown is as you say "above *that* 131 degrees." It may well be that the spec you cite is describing the maximum general ambient temperature in which the case may be immersed. The temp that you get from your 722 receiver is presumably determined by a discrete sensor that indicates a temperature at that *discrete* location.

I may be naive, but the designers of the receiver had access to the manufacturer's temp specs for the hard drive.

I am not saying you are wrong, simply suggesting that it may well be a little apples and oranges.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"*a discrete sensor that indicates a temperature at that discrete location*" - perhaps you mean LM75 what is close to sat-tuners area. But it's different circuit - the sensor report a temp of board around it and SW control internal fan according hardcoded settings ( I did post details on other site ).
HDD temps what ppl reading under Counter chapter are not linked to that sensor.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

phrelin said:


> I've posted this before, but:
> 
> From Seagate's site (covers Seagate and Maxtor):
> 
> ...


They're not using SCSI drives in the 6/722s. WD's SATA specs indicate an operating ceiling of 140 degrees Fahrenheit.

Seagate lists a ceiling of 140 degrees for their SATA drives as well.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

redelephants said:


> What I mean about picture quality is seeing macroblocking during motion, this is especially noticeable on red backgrounds. I have signal readings in the high 50's to mid 60's. If I pause and rewind in slow-mo, I can definetly see the macroblocking very good and actually will see frame by frame the picture tiling out with grey background. What is strange is that the picture quality varies and have noticed that on weekends (friday, saturday) my picture quality is best. I am watching HD on 51" tv. It seems to me that what I am seeing is compression artifacts, but it doesn't seem that everyone sees them so I am not sure that is what it is or not. As stated on a different site, most people view HD on a set smaller than 42". Obvisously if you step up to a bigger set, you will notice things in the picture you wouldn't on a smaller set. Its not my tv display refresh rate either because I can see the macroblocking in slow mo. I am lost at what could be the issue, other than compression artifacts. I guess to most people that view HD content they don't notice it but when you have your TV calibrated to a T it drives my crazy to see these things.


Yes , macroblocking is due to digital compression artifacts, which have nothing to do with temperature. I hate to tell you this, but Dish (or Comcast, or DirecTV) "HD" typically is nowhere near the quality of either OTA HD or from a BD. Sometimes an upconverted DVD on my system is better than the "HD" I get from Dish.

I think the reason why no one mentions it, is that there's not much we can do about it, so why complain? It is what it is.

Btw, I have an ISF'ed 50" Panasonic plasma.

I don't know why you'd see a difference between during the week and the weekend, but channels are different in the quality of the HD they offer us, and the program source obviously plays a role too.

And if you're familiar with the discussion of "macroblocking" on AVS with Denon DVD players a while back, the display plays a role too.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Kevin Brown said:


> ... I hate to tell you this, but Dish (or Comcast, or DirecTV) "HD" typically is nowhere near the quality of either OTA HD or from a BD. Sometimes an upconverted DVD on my system is better than the "HD" I get from Dish.
> ...
> 
> Btw, I have an ISF'ed 50" Panasonic plasma.
> ...


I suspect you've got some problem with your A/V setup problem if your Sat HD is "nowhere near the quality of ... OTA."

I am hard pressed to see the difference and Btw, I have an ISF'ed 60" Kuro 1080p Pioneer Elite plasma.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

SaltiDawg said:


> I suspect you've got some problem with your A/V setup problem if your Sat HD is "nowhere near the quality of ... OTA."
> 
> I am hard pressed to see the difference and Btw, I have an ISF'ed 60" Kuro 1080p Pioneer Elite plasma.


Our OTA much better then your [miserable ] OTA. That's why we can see big difference in PQ here .


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

SaltiDawg said:


> I suspect you've got some problem with your A/V setup problem if your Sat HD is "nowhere near the quality of ... OTA."
> 
> I am hard pressed to see the difference and Btw, I have an ISF'ed 60" Kuro 1080p Pioneer Elite plasma.


HD bandwidth over digital channels from any of Comcast, Dish, or DTV, is reduced from the OTA feed. This is fact, and there have been rumblings of lawsuits about it. I'm glad you can't see a difference, but it's there, and I can certainly see it. :roundandr


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

Go and buy a small cooling fan and place it on the left side of your 722, with the air direction out of the case. It really makes a difference.

My 722k, which used to be really warm to the touch and had an average temp higher than yours, is now barely warm at all.

The temps are now: High - 123 Low - 104 Average - 113

Do a google for Home Theater Cooling. You will find several companies that sell nearly silent fans that will work quite well. I think it was worth the money.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> They're not using SCSI drives in the 6/722s. WD's SATA specs indicate an operating ceiling of 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
> Seagate lists a ceiling of 140 degrees for their SATA drives as well.


Well, I learn something new every day. SATA drives. So when a 722 unit is recording three audio/video data streams, two from the satellite and one from OTA, while someone is skipping commercials watching a recorded program, that's being done on a SATA drive. How much cache is built into these systems?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

8 MB


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Kevin Brown said:


> HD bandwidth over digital channels from any of Comcast, Dish, or DTV, is reduced from the OTA feed. ...


If by "reduced" you mean the signal may be *compressed*, that is correct. However, with a quality TV and proper calibration the difference in PQ should not generally be noticeable. If you are seeing a significant degradation in PQ when compared to OTA then you should revisit your setup.



> I'm glad you can't see a difference, but it's there, and I can certainly see it.


Ah, the illusive "can't see a difference, but it's there" phenomenon. See the paragraph above. lol


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Could we stay on topic, please ?


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Excellent idea.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

The topic is that the OP is seeing compression artifacts. That, AFAIK, is not a temperature issue.

SaltiDawg- The issue is that they are using _lossy_ compression that does degrade the signal quality. This was in the newspaper here over the summer ! They had talked to a few people who were measuring the data rates, and they were far reduced from what they should have been. Even accounting for lossless compression.

Easy to Google "dish network satellite compression reduced bandwidth degrades the picture video quality" and you get stuff like this:

"Compression artifacts abound with both DTV and Dishnetwork because of overcompression of the signal on some channels, as well, many transponders may be weak depending on the age of the satellite. We get more channels but the picture has degraded over the years because they keep squashing more data into the same bandwidth. Some channels are pretty good though, mostly premium and pay movie channels and the live events channels. But the regular network channels, local channels, sports channels, etc. are compressed to the max. It's going to get worse when they switch to Mpeg4 compression in the next year or two. Still, for all it's flaws, it's a sight better than my cable channels with their bad video and audio on most channels that do not require a digital cable box (an added expense I can do without)."

And that was posted 4 years ago. We have even more channels now.

I thought everyone knew this? The only way for Dish (or DTV or Comcast) to offer us the large number of channels they do, is that they sacrifice video quality.

Salti-Dawg? You have Blu-ray? No way I can believe that you think a movie on Dish is anywhere close to BD. Macroblocking, shifted colors, incorrect overscan, etc. And correct me if I'm wrong, but we do not get the lossless Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-HD MA from Dish either, right? That should tell you right there that the signal has been compressed to such an extent that the video quality has to suffer. These are not reception issues I see. They are from Dish's lossy compression of all the HD signals.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Kevin Brown said:


> ...
> SaltiDawg- The issue is that they are using _lossy_ compression that does degrade the signal quality. ....


Kevin,

I understand and agree with your poist. However....

The fact that *some* video information is lost due to compression by the service provider does not necessarily translate to seeing a significant degradation in PQ when compared to OTA. If the person with the ISF 50" Panny Plasma is seeing significant degradation, he needs to revisit his equipment setup.

I am generally hard pressed to see any difference in PQ between my local OTAs and the E* provided Sat HD locals. (My 60" plasma has also been ISFd and the 50" set should have an easier time of it. lol )


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Kevin Brown said:


> ....
> Salti-Dawg? You have Blu-ray? No way I can believe that you think a movie on Dish is anywhere close to BD. ....


I do in fact have an excellent BD player (A PS3) and do enjoy the occasional 1080p 24 fps movie on my 60" Kuro 1080p 72 fps Pioneer Elite plasma.

*I don't think I mentioned BD at all. Did I?*

If so, I hope I did not say that a compressed 720p/1080i sat signal compared to a 1080p BD video.

I did state the *fact* that I (and numerous visitors to my home) am generally hard pressed to see any difference between OTA and Sat provided local HD channel image quality.


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## redelephants (Aug 10, 2009)

SaltiDawg said:


> I do in fact have an excellent BD player (A PS3) and do enjoy the occasional 1080p 24 fps movie on my 60" Kuro 1080p 72 fps Pioneer Elite plasma.
> 
> *I don't think I mentioned BD at all. Did I?*
> 
> ...


This might be true to your location, however just because your Dish LiL's are equal compared to OTA doesn't mean other LiL's are going to be the same.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

redelephants said:


> This might be true to your location, however just because your Dish LiL's are equal compared to OTA doesn't mean other LiL's are going to be the same.


Doh. I never said so.

That said, if you are seeing a *significant* degradation, you should check your in-house setup.

I simply stated a fact re my viewing experience and get told I said something about Blu-ray (I didn't) and I get told that I said something about "other LiL's" being "the same." lol


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## redelephants (Aug 10, 2009)

SaltiDawg said:


> I suspect you've got some problem with your A/V setup problem if your Sat HD is "nowhere near the quality of ... OTA."
> 
> I am hard pressed to see the difference and Btw, I have an ISF'ed 60" Kuro 1080p Pioneer Elite plasma.


Here it is


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

redelephants said:


> Here it is


Nonsense. 

Bye.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

phrelin said:


> Well, I learn something new every day. SATA drives. So when a 722 unit is recording three audio/video data streams, two from the satellite and one from OTA, while someone is skipping commercials watching a recorded program, that's being done on a SATA drive. How much cache is built into these systems?


P Smith is right, usually they have 8MB cache, some have 16MB. The biggest benefit is the total throughput of SATA drives is 150MB/sec at the low end, 1.5GB/sec at the high end, and their spindle speeds tend to be 5400 or 7200RPM. I understand that DVRs usually use 5400RPM because the rotational speed can have an effect on heat.

For comparison, SCSI drives have widely varying throughput but usually hit 40MB/sec on your average consumer drive (disregarding the types of SCSI drives used in professional/server applications that can be Fiberchannel/15000 RPM).

My last homebuilt DVR/HTPC had an 80GB 5400RPM SATA boot drive and a 500GB 7200RPM SATA storage drive.


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

just found this thread - my 722 locked up last nite - message 533 too hot. was 145 degrees! it sits in a cabinet on a shelf, which is above a receiver- back of cabinet is open but front is glass door. i ended up unplugging it for the night. just booted back up and checked info (thanks to this thread). 
high 145
low 86 
avg 129

from what i'm reading that avg is too high. i'll take the glass door off and perhaps look into moving it and or getting a fan. one thing is my cabinet does not have much space on the sides - about 1 1/4 on each side. 
any advice - is the minimal clearance on the sides a real problem too??
thanks


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Clearance should be OK, but airflow/heat building ... Try spacers for the one or two inch tall - raise the DVR, if you could.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Clearance should be OK, but airflow/heat building ... Try spacers for the one or two inch tall - raise the DVR, if you could.


Only adding 1" spacers below mine dropped the average by 5 to 10 deg right there. :righton:


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

thanks guys - i'll give that a shot- i was worried about the barely over an inch clearance on each side but that won't be an issue if i raise it?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Try and tell us. Read those new temp values in a week or two.


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## Keybounce (Jun 19, 2009)

Wow. My system reports HDD temps of 138 / 132 / 116. I'm glad the ceiling is 140, and not 131.

Incidentally, I can't find any temperatures other than the drive temp; no CPU or other temp.


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Try and tell us. Read those new temp values in a week or two.


just got back from traveling and my bro in law moved it out of the cabinet -


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Oops.


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