# A crime not to offer PBS HD in every DMA in two weeks



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Beginning Sunday 9/27, PBS will air [strike]weekly[/strike] nightly for a week the new Ken Burn's series "The National Parks: America's Best Idea" which traces the evolution of national parks beginning in the mid-1800s and follows it over the next 150 years. It's narrated by actor Peter Coyote and features first-person historical accounts, read by actors including Tom Hanks, Andy Garcia, Eli Wallach, Sam Waterston, John Lithgow and Adam Arkin, of people who helped create the parks and save them from destruction.

Naturally, it will have some really great nature and landscape cinematography brought to me in SD by Dish Network. And as far as I'm concerned if I had any other choice but Dish I'd be gone.

Yeah, I know. I'm a Dish customer who'll have to buy the DVD set because I don't spend enough to be receiving more than the fishing and tennis channels in HD. Too bad Charlie ain't got no culture.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

PBS-HD is a waste of bandwidth.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Phrelin, I hate to tell you, but as a Comcast sub, I get three different PBS channels, including the national feed, all in HD!


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

PBSHD is great OTA. Thank you Dish, for the 722.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Beginning Sunday 9/27, PBS will air weekly the new Ken Burn's series "The National Parks: America's Best Idea" which traces the evolution of national parks beginning in the mid-1800s and follows it over the next 150 years. It's narrated by actor Peter Coyote and features first-person historical accounts, read by actors including Tom Hanks, Andy Garcia, Eli Wallach, Sam Waterston, John Lithgow and Adam Arkin, of people who helped create the parks and save them from destruction.
> 
> Naturally, it will have some really great nature and landscape cinematography brought to me in SD by Dish Network. And as far as I'm concerned if I had any other choice but Dish I'd be gone.
> 
> Yeah, I know. I'm a Dish customer who'll have to buy the DVD set because I don't spend enough to be receiving than the fishing and tennis channels in HD. Too bad Charlie ain't got no culture.


Thanks for the tip. You'd think Charlie would try to put one PBS HD channel up in big DMAS.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

phrelin said:


> Naturally, it will have some really great nature and landscape cinematography brought to me in SD by Dish Network. And as far as I'm concerned if I had any other choice but Dish I'd be gone.


You signatur says Willits CA, which according to the www.ups.gov site is zip 95490. The DirecTV web site for that zip says that it has KQED in HD via local into local service if that helps.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

It is bad enough that DISH has opted not to uplink PBS in most markets; though, they just uplinked Casper, Wyoming, and a couple small markets, a few weeks ago. But, since the DTV conversion what was a tolerable SD signal for KRMA and KBDI (Denver PBS channels), have been made much worse with DISH "center cutting" and stretching the picture. Not only is the picture distorted; it is hard to watch. Of course I can zoom the picture, but then I cut off the top and bottom of a picture which has already been butchered by DISH, and it would be like watching TV through a magnifying glass (lines and all). 

I contacted my PBS affiliates to complain and I got the "center cut" spiel and that it is DISH's responsibility. Even though, if I understand this correctly, each broadcaster tell dish to "center cut" or "pass through" a local station. 

So, I did send an e-mail to programming to complain that they are delivering an unacceptable solution. One would think that PBS, a public channel, would want to be carried with a good, proportion picture OTA, on cable and satellite. One would also think that DISH would at least uplink PBS in the larger markets; like Boston, New York, Washington, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Seattle , Philadelphia, and Denver. 

Well, until DISH decides to do the right thing, I pretty much have History, History International, National Geographic and the array of Discovery channels which are viable alternatives. Unfortunately, trying to watch Ken Burn's "National Parks" will literally give me a headache because of he picture distortion with KRMA. One would think they could at least uplink PBD-HD or WGBH (Boston) just for the showing of this special.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

inazsully said:


> PBSHD is great OTA. Thank you Dish, for the 722.


Same here, I get PBSHD via OTA, and the 2 PBS Sub Channels as well. Dish only gives me PBS SD.


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Beginning Sunday 9/27, PBS will air weekly the new Ken Burn's series "The National Parks: America's Best Idea" which traces the evolution of national parks beginning in the mid-1800s and follows it over the next 150 years. It's narrated by actor Peter Coyote and features first-person historical accounts, read by actors including Tom Hanks, Andy Garcia, Eli Wallach, Sam Waterston, John Lithgow and Adam Arkin, of people who helped create the parks and save them from destruction.
> 
> Naturally, it will have some really great nature and landscape cinematography brought to me in SD by Dish Network. And as far as I'm concerned if I had any other choice but Dish I'd be gone.
> 
> Yeah, I know. I'm a Dish customer who'll have to buy the DVD set because I don't spend enough to be receiving than the fishing and tennis channels in HD. Too bad Charlie ain't got no culture.


You say it's a crime. May we look forward to your bringing this before a grand jury?


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

We are the Grand Jury. Now let's vote. Oops, I forgot. Our vote, like our voice, falls on deaf ears.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

PBS HD is available with a HD FTA receiver. But I subscribed to the national PBS feed when it was available on Dish, and I'd be happy to subscribe to a HD feed. Too bad the local stations would never let that happen.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Nothing more than a minor annoyance at the most.


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

Luckily I can get my local PBS station WNET OTA post transition fine because Dish feed is horrible. It is a center cut downcoverted station which looks terrible. Most of the time the text and even logo is cut off on the sides.

I can also get NJN OTA out of NJ but it is not as strong or reliable.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

Yep, I enjoy my local PBS HD station over OTA as well. I guess it would be nice if Dish beamed a national PBS in HD as well, but I'm not sure of the logistics of that. I feel like it's a waste of spectrum to have the 1000s of local markets all beamed, but that's just me


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

I would like to see PBS HD feeds added. I cannot believe how much I am paying for satellite TV, then to get PBS in a low res, chopped picture...

There are many shows on PBS that would look great in HD. It really is a shame.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

lee635 said:


> I would like to see PBS HD feeds added. I cannot believe how much I am paying for satellite TV, then to get PBS in a low res, chopped picture...
> 
> There are many shows on PBS that would look great in HD. It really is a shame.


Change providers like I did. At least I've one in HD.


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

Denver's a horrible market for PBS.

We've two PBS stations, KRMA and KBDI, and at present *neither* shows any HD programming, preferring to send multiple SD subchannels instead.

KRMA *claims* they will start sending HD, but with two SD subchannels it's going to look pretty nasty anyway.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I'll trade the PBS HD that I got yesterday for TCM HD...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

RAD said:


> You signatur says Willits CA, which according to the www.ups.gov site is zip 95490. The DirecTV web site for that zip says that it has KQED in HD via local into local service if that helps.


 Unfortunately, I'd have to cut down some redwood trees to use DirecTV. I'm sure the series will look super in HD, but not as super as live redwood trees. So I'm limited to Dish.


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## RollTide1017 (Oct 12, 2008)

phrelin said:


> Yeah, I know. I'm a Dish customer who'll have to buy the DVD set because I don't spend enough to be receiving more than the fishing and tennis channels in HD. Too bad Charlie ain't got no culture.


Buying the DVD set still will not help you see it in HD.


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## HarveyLA (Jun 8, 2006)

Below, from my earlier post in June- for those who didn't see it. SOME PBS HD is coming, somewhere (but not in two weeks). Dish is probably the only major satellite or cable provider not carrying PBS locals in HD, at least in top markets.

Originally Posted by HarveyLA

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/113031-FCC_Allows_Satellite_TV_Providers_to_Phase_In_HD.php

"satellite broadcasters must carry TV stations' HD signals in 15% of the markets in which they carry any HD signals by Feb. 17, 2010; 30% of those by Feb. 17, 2011; 60% by Feb. 17, 2012; and 100% by Feb. 17, 2013."

__________________________________________________ __________

So, by the current estimate, 15% of 144= 21.6= 22 must carry HD markets by February 17, 2010. But which markets? Does that include Hawaii and Alaska where Dish is already carrying noncommercial stations in HD as mandated by law? And is Alaska one market or three? There are three PBS stations, in Anchorage, Fairbanks and Juneau. Will Dish go with the top markets at first? The larger markets have more of the small independent stations but most of those don't carry any HD. In Los Angeles, for example, Dish would have to add commercial station KCOP, and PBS stations KCET and KOCE. Not sure if there are any other HD locals in L.A. There might be some very small markets where Dish could get away with adding just one HD local. But it would seem to make sense from the business standpoint to hit the top markets first.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

:rant:

I think the major markets are a problem because of the corrupt orientation of the FCC and our Congress favoring station owners over viewers. As near as I can determine the only national English language channels offering HD in the San Francisco Bay Area not offered in HD by Dish are KBCW The CW and KQED PBS. In theory adding two stations would sound fine in terms of bandwidth economics but that would not go anywhere towards meeting the FCC phase in rules.

For example, KICU Ind offers its one hour newscast in HD. As far as I know, that's what they offer in HD, but they're an HD signal. My guess is that there are others in our DMA that offer at least one 30+ second HD screen a day. (The morons at the FCC set no standard for what is an HD channel for this purpose as far as I know, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

The FCC rule requires the satellite carriers to carry all channels offering HD signals in 15% of the _*markets*_ in which they carry any HD signals by Feb. 17, 2010. For people who can't think, apparently like the FCC staff and members, that seems a reasonable approach. For people who can think, the rule would have required DMA's that cover 50% of the television households and then only for stations affiliated to national networks.

But hey, their lofty objective I'm sure is to develop markets for HD so that owners of meaningless locals can shift to HD and still make money. That the local broadcaster might only offer reruns of "Friends" and "Seinfeld" along with old movies and infomercials doesn't mean I'm not going to have to subsidize them.

The reality is that Dish can select the DMA's that only have two to five HD channels to list for the FCC and keep the bandwidth demand low. It appears that they already carry 22 HD markets in a manner that complies, but again correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't blame Dish. If by the 2013 deadline half the broadcast stations in the top 20 DMA's went HD, Dish will need satellites just for them so that the 800 people watching some of them could receive them from Dish while millions nationwide subsidize this worthless (in every sense of the word) effort.

:rant:


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

To me, it does not matter if the Denver PBS stations are no carried for a while. What irks me is that they are center cutting the picture making the channels difficult to watch. Before the DTV conversion, the picture was not center cut and all I had to do was resize the picture to eliminate black bars. This can be done wither with an HDTV set or VIP series DISH receivers.

But, because the FCC gives broadcasters a choice to center cut or not; the carrier must follow along with the broadcaster's picture delivery requirements. So, the PBS stations in at least New York, Denver, San Francisco and Denver are being delivered center cut.

So, in a way, this is not DISH's problem; it is with the PBS stations themselves. I wish DISH would just go ahead and eliminate center cut programming on broadcast stations, then the problem of distorted pictures would go away. DTV was suppose to make pictures better, not worse. 

By the way, I live too far to receive Denver channels over the air. I cannot add a roof antenna, because of teh HOA and it may not work anyway (mountains and mesas in the way) And I certainly not going to add cable just to get two channels for $20/month.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

nmetro said:


> I cannot add a roof antenna, because of teh HOA ...


HOAs are not allowed to prohibit the use of an OTA antenna.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


FTA Michael said:


> But I subscribed to the national PBS feed when it was available on Dish, and I'd be happy to subscribe to a HD feed. Too bad the local stations would never let that happen.


If national a la carte subscribers were contributing more directly to the HD feed's production costs, wouldn't that lessen what the locals would have to pay, and be a more reliable source of funding than occasional pledge drives that could then have lower goals?


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

I get PBS in HD both from dish and OTA. Always have.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

nmetro said:


> But, because the FCC gives broadcasters a choice to center cut or not; the carrier must follow along with the broadcaster's picture delivery requirements. So, the PBS stations in at least New York, Denver, San Francisco and Denver are being delivered center cut.


Philadelphia too. It's irritating.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

kucharsk said:


> Denver's a horrible market for PBS.
> 
> We've two PBS stations, KRMA and KBDI, and at present *neither* shows any HD programming, preferring to send multiple SD subchannels instead.
> 
> KRMA *claims* they will start sending HD, *but with two SD subchannels it's going to look pretty nasty anyway*.


Not really. I get 2 PBS feeds here in the Cleveland DMA. One has 3 video + 1 audio only subchannels in addition to the main HD feed, the other has 2 video and no audio only subchannels in addition to the HD feed. Both look fine (but I don't have a true HD set yet. But I get the best possible picture on HD pictures, unlike the blurry SD feeds.


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## Donp (May 2, 2006)

In the Louisville area we have as of October 1 all KET1 all HD, KET2 SD, KETKY (KET3) SD and KET4 SD On E* I recieve KET1 SD. Thankfully I was able 
to watch Ken Burns's"National Parks" in HD OTA and that's how it will be for some time to come I guess.


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

I watched Ken Burn's National Parks in HD OTA on WNET channel 13. It looked great in 1080i.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

From http://www.multichannel.com/article/358271-Dish_We_Can_t_Deliver_Noncom_HD_s_By_2011.php?rssid=20059

_"In a letter to the House Energy & Commerce Committee Wednesday, Dish Network EVP and general counsel R. Stanton Dodge said the company would not be able to comply with a proposal that it deliver all noncommercial stations' HD signals by 2011 in markets where it delivers any local station HD signals.

Dodge said that not only did that raise First Amendment concerns, but that it could not comply with the rollout schedule --50% by 2010, the rest by 2011-- without the additional capacity, which it won't have until it launches a new satellite in the fourth quarter of 2012."_


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

RAD said:


> From http://www.multichannel.com/article/358271-Dish_We_Can_t_Deliver_Noncom_HD_s_By_2011.php?rssid=20059
> 
> _"In a letter to the House Energy & Commerce Committee Wednesday, Dish Network EVP and general counsel R. Stanton Dodge said the company would not be able to comply with a proposal that it deliver all noncommercial stations' HD signals by 2011 in markets where it delivers any local station HD signals.
> 
> Dodge said that not only did that raise First Amendment concerns, but that it could not comply with the rollout schedule --50% by 2010, the rest by 2011-- without the additional capacity, which it won't have until it launches a new satellite in the fourth quarter of 2012."_


So, based upon this comment, DISH is going to make people wait to 2013 to get their PBS stations in HD. In the meantime, we have to put up with "center cut" for the next four years. What is wrong with this picture? (No pun intended)

If this is the case, then they should giver everyone with an HD package PBS-HD. In my case, I live too far to receive either Denver PBS station over the air, and I am not going to pay a local cable provider (Comcast) when I have DISH Network.


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