# UPS Questions



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I bought a new printer today from Office Depot and received a $20 coupon on my next purchase of over $100. I think the next purchase will be some UPS. I'm currently running on a Radio Shack surge protector, but always wanted UPS for when the power goes out. I'm looking at the APC BX1200. Provided they'll price match Best Buys price of $135 and still accept the coupon.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7424717&type=product&id=1122655502341

Question is do I have to install the included software and what do I lose if I don't? I hate using products that require extra software (other then drivers of course) which is why I kept away from the iPod for so long.

Also does the number of minutes have any relation on number of things plugged in to the Back UPS outlets. This unit has 8 outlets, 6 of then are UPS. I'll have the tower, monitor (LCD), cable modem and router for sure. My other components are a cordless phone, iPaq Cradle and soon an iPod Cradle. Due to lengths of cords and how my desk is set up, the printer, sound system and desk lamp will not be on the UPS. Would it matter if I utilize the UPS outlets for devices that I don't care about or would it be better to plug them into the surge only outlets or doesn't it matter?

I also assume that I can just plug the thing into the wall and plug everything else into it, I don't have to wait or anything for the battery to charge up?

Thanks, I'm hoping to purchase this later on in the day.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Steve- don't plan on running too long after the power goes out. These UPS systems are designed to run you long enough to be able to shut you down properly. If your sustem is small, then you may even get up to an hour on them. I have several in the edit suite that are capable of running the entire room for long enough to give me time to get the generator running, about 10 minutes. These are about 2000VA systems with dual battery backs. 
I have never connected the USB triggered software but I thought that was mainly for monitoring of power drains, plus auto shut down and other stuff. Otherwise, yes, you plug them into the wall outlet and plug everything else into the outlets that are active on battery backup. There usually are other outlets that are for filters only. Since I am often away, it would probably be a wise idea to install it for the auto shutdown and restart feature when the power came back on but I just never took the time to do it. 

I have 2 of the systems you referenced and their associalted second batteries which plugs into the main tower. You can add more batteries as you wish depending on your load.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

I have an older UPS and its 12 VDC battery finally died. The cost of replacing this proprietary item (battery and shipping) was way too high, so I plan to wire a car-type deep-cycle battery in its place.

The deep-cycle battery will be less expensive and allow the UPS to function far longer than the original.

About the software... My understanding is that it is a safety net during power outages. It causes the computer to shut itself down when the remaining capacity of the UPS reaches a certain level and loss of power to the computer is imminent.

Those of us with notebook computers essentially have a built-in UPS.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Just be careful with that deep cycle "car type" battery. Keep it away from electronics and in a well ventilated area. People who fail to do that will have a disaster waiting to happen during their next deep ccyle discharge. The gas given off during charge recovery and discharge is explosive so spark free zone is important and some car type batteries also will spew corrosive Sulfuric acid vapor in that gas, that will damage electronics as well over time.

If you live in any major city, you should have some business there that deals with gel packs that are direct replacements for the UPS batteries. These gel packs are used in all sorts of emergency lighting, motorcycles and battery operated consumer and industrial devices. Look in your yellow pages under batteries. We have a couple dozen outlets here in Jacksonville to deal with that carry these gel battery packs. Prices usually range from 30-50 bucks.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

As has already been mentioned, the software will shut things down automatically if the power stays off more than momentarily. It will also periodically run a check on the UPS to make sure it is operating correctly. It will also keep track for you how often your power supply is disrupted and for how long. So if you experience a brownout, putting your system on partial battery backup, it will let you know.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

I have an APC brand backup UPS in use here. It works fine as a basic UPS without the USB connection to the computer or any support software running.

I don't trust any software these days! It's either Spyware or it's buggy.

--- CHAS


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

I have three APC UPS units here in my office at home. They replaced 2 in which the batteries wore out. I did not use the software with the earlier units, but have with the current ones. They worked fine without, and they work fine with. I have never had any problem with the software.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

AllieVi said:


> I have an older UPS and its 12 VDC battery finally died. The cost of replacing this proprietary item (battery and shipping) was way too high, so I plan to wire a car-type deep-cycle battery in its place.


You really don't want to have an automotive battery inside your home or office. They also require a much higher charge rate than a UPS can deliver to break up the crystals that may form. Deep cycle batteries typically don't live as long as a conventional battery.

Deep cycle isn't really what you would want unless you are frequently operating off of the battery for long periods of time (solar or wind primary power). Generally speaking, if you're experiencing an unplanned power outage, you should shut everything down; that's where the software comes in.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Don and Harsh,

Thanks for the advice. I thought sealed versions of the batteries were available and that's what I intended to use. I really haven't looked into what's on the market, though.

I wasn't aware that the deep cycle batteries need a higher charge rate. My experience with them is from an RV which, of course, provides lots of charging current.

Wouldn't a sealed standard car battery do the trick?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

standard car batteries are not designed to run for long periods to deep discharge like a UPS would do. They are designed to deliver cranking amps for short bursts and then be maintained at immediate full charge. All batteries will vent some gas and you need to be careful with sparking but the ones you were wanting to use vent larger quantities of gas and are more dangerous in closed environments. MY advice- get the right battery for the job. There really isn't that much difference in the cost, BTW. Unless you desire to just tinker around with what most know is a bad idea, I don't see the point in using car batteries, RV or otherwise. Now if you really want to tinker- design a UPS using Lithium Ion batteries! But then that is what the laptops use!


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I purchased the APC UPS I linked above, I was up until 5 this morning reorganizing wires and cables and cords  I didn't install the software but I hooked up the network/USB cable for monitoring. Tested everything out and it works great, should have bought one of these a long time ago.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> standard car batteries are not designed to run for long periods to deep discharge like a UPS would do. They are designed to deliver cranking amps for short bursts and then be maintained at immediate full charge. All batteries will vent some gas and you need to be careful with sparking but the ones you were wanting to use vent larger quantities of gas and are more dangerous in closed environments. MY advice- get the right battery for the job. There really isn't that much difference in the cost, BTW. Unless you desire to just tinker around with what most know is a bad idea, I don't see the point in using car batteries, RV or otherwise. Now if you really want to tinker- design a UPS using Lithium Ion batteries! But then that is what the laptops use!


I'm abandoning the idea based on your guidance. I don't really have much need for UPS, anyway, since the computer is a notebook and it simply switches to its internal battery if the power fails. A separate, small UPS powers the router, so Internet access still exists during power failures. Nothing I do is so important that it can't wait for the power to return


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> I purchased the APC UPS I linked above, I was up until 5 this morning reorganizing wires and cables and cords  I didn't install the software but I hooked up the network/USB cable for monitoring. Tested everything out and it works great, should have bought one of these a long time ago.


I'm surprised that one of the major companies (Dell, Compaq, etc.) hasn't engineered a computer with a built-in UPS. It wouldn't cost them much and would be a good selling point. They would even have follow-on business selling replacement batteries. Automatic shutdown could be engineered into the system, preventing power failure induced customer service calls. It would seem to be a win-win situation for the computer companies.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

AllieVi said:


> I'm surprised that one of the major companies (Dell, Compaq, etc.) hasn't engineered a computer with a built-in UPS. It wouldn't cost them much and would be a good selling point. They would even have follow-on business selling replacement batteries. Automatic shutdown could be engineered into the system, preventing power failure induced customer service calls. It would seem to be a win-win situation for the computer companies.


Probably because of size and weight considerations, but cost certainly is a factor. When you look at entry level computers from Dell and Compaq, they aren't very impressive. The processors aren't too bad, but you typically get only 256 MB of RAM, CDROM drive, onboard graphics sharing 64 MB of that RAM, etc. Joe sixpack isn't likely to spend 50 bucks or so for a UPS he doesn't understand, particularly if it means extra weight and size. He'd be more likely to invest in a $50 - $75 upgrade that promises "better performance", e.g. more RAM, CD/RW or DVD/RW drive and larger hard drive.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

AllieVi said:


> I'm surprised that one of the major companies (Dell, Compaq, etc.) hasn't engineered a computer with a built-in UPS. It wouldn't cost them much and would be a good selling point. They would even have follow-on business selling replacement batteries. Automatic shutdown could be engineered into the system, preventing power failure induced customer service calls. It would seem to be a win-win situation for the computer companies.


They do -- it's called a laptop. I've had four - my latest will run for up to 3 hours after a power interruption.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Cholly said:


> Probably because of size and weight considerations, but cost certainly is a factor. When you look at entry level computers from Dell and Compaq, they aren't very impressive. The processors aren't too bad, but you typically get only 256 MB of RAM, CDROM drive, onboard graphics sharing 64 MB of that RAM, etc. Joe sixpack isn't likely to spend 50 bucks or so for a UPS he doesn't understand, particularly if it means extra weight and size. He'd be more likely to invest in a $50 - $75 upgrade that promises "better performance", e.g. more RAM, CD/RW or DVD/RW drive and larger hard drive.


Joe Sixpack thinks if he upgrades from the $1.95 powerstrip to the $6.95 "surge protector" he has gone all out.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Nick said:


> They do -- it's called a laptop - my latest will run for up to 3 hours after a power interruption.


I'm desktop-free, too. I've had five laptops...

1 - Radio Shack Model 100 - about $150 in the late 1980's
2 - Texas Instruments 3000 - about $3,000 sometime in early '90's
3 - Compaq Presario 120 - about $3,000 in mid-90's
4 - Dell Inspiron 7500 - about $3,000 in 1999
5 - Dell Inspiron 8600 - about $2,000 in 2004

They're all around here somplace...


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm using one of these connected to 2 deep cycle marine batteries that are in the garage. http://www.tripplite.com/products/inverters/aps.cfm#12 Works great.


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