# Dish/Google TV



## zeagus (Jun 13, 2007)

I don't have Dish, but I thought y'all might like to know Dish is a partner for GoogleTV according to El Goog themselves at the Google I/O keynote today.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/...-o-2010-day-2-keynote/?sort=newest&refresh=60

"As for partners, it's just as we heard: Sony will launch Sony Internet TVs and Blu-ray players with Google TV in the fall, and Logitech will introduce a set-top box with a Harmony remote and an HD camera for video chat at some point in the future. Dish Network will also launch a Google TV box at some point, while Best Buy will promote the platform as a whole in-store."

"Partnership with Dish Network. Subscribers will be able to "seamlessly integrate content" into Google TV."

"DISH Network and Google have admitted to their ongoing trials but there's no word on any release date."


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

They actually mentioned during the keynote that they would have "tight integration with Dish's receivers" which sounds like a sweet, sweet firmware update.


----------



## zeagus (Jun 13, 2007)

Yeah, just edited to add the "seamless integration" quote.


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Charlie just said basically he wants to own peoples' eyeballs and Google is the way to build a better product that people want.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

zeagus said:


> I don't have Dish, but I thought y'all might like to know Dish is a partner for GoogleTV according to El Goog themselves at the Google I/O keynote today.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/...-o-2010-day-2-keynote/?sort=newest&refresh=60
> 
> "As for partners, it's just as we heard: Sony will launch Sony Internet TVs and Blu-ray players with Google TV in the fall, and Logitech will introduce a set-top box with a Harmony remote and an HD camera for video chat at some point in the future. Dish Network will also launch a Google TV box at some point, while Best Buy will promote the platform as a whole in-store."


LG has a LED HDTV with W fi where you can surf the Web and Stream Netflix movies. It has a remote that you flip up and full keyboard appears. You can see it on QVC.com.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

RasputinAXP said:


> They actually mentioned during the keynote that they would have "tight integration with Dish's receivers" which sounds like a sweet, sweet firmware update.


That's even better!


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how we'd use it with a KB/M combo as yet, but that would be awesome.


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

http://dish.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=472015



> Google and DISH Network Collaborate to Develop Integrated Multichannel TV and Web Platform
> Enhanced Integration with Google TV Available to DISH Network Customers This Fall
> 
> MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. and ENGLEWOOD, Colo., May 20, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX News Network/ -- Google and DISH Network L.L.C., America's fastest-growing pay-TV provider, today unveiled the launch of Google TV, an open platform that seamlessly integrates multichannel television with rich web media content. This technology brings the full power of the Internet to the television viewing experience.
> ...


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

So in other words it sounds like it'll be a firmware update to allow for the integration, then plug in the Google box.


----------



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Just got an email from Dish stating the link in the posted press release is incorrect.

Here is the updated hyperlink.

www.dish.com/googleTV


----------



## jpeckinp (Nov 6, 2006)

From Engadget
"(Update: We didn't catch it onstage, but DISH just announced it will enable "advanced integration" via HDMI on all of its HD DVR receivers this fall,"

I hope it will work on Component also. My HDMI port went south a few years back.


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Jason Nipp said:


> Just got an email from Dish stating the link in the posted press release is incorrect.
> 
> Here is the updated hyperlink.
> 
> www.dish.com/googleTV


Thanks for the updated link. Filled out the info already.
Now lets see if this really does something in the Fall.


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2010)

I wonder if DirecTV will add Google TV? What if they did an HR-24 and Google TV?


----------



## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Now this is a damn good idea! This is a product worth getting. I wonder if you can get the Google Tv service alone as a service and not bother with any of the other carriers? If the Premier providers (HBO, Showtime, etc.) were smart they would partner with Google Tv and allow consumers to use this as a stand alone product. Google has a fan base that would probably but all other carriers to shame. Definitely something to keep an eye on.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Because other threads have been started on the specifics of this Google effort and because I'm interested in the big picture, for broader discussion I started a general thread Google announces television initiative.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Movieman said:


> Now this is a damn good idea! This is a product worth getting. I wonder if you can get the Google Tv service alone as a service and not bother with any of the other carriers? If the Premier providers (HBO, Showtime, etc.) were smart they would partner with Google Tv and allow consumers to use this as a stand alone product. Google has a fan base that would probably but all other carriers to shame. Definitely something to keep an eye on.


Except Google fan base are used to free stuff, so I don't think asking them to pay $15/mo. for the premium channels will have much attraction. But a DISH HDDVR integrated with Google TV is another story, when you have people who are already paying for the content, then Google TV is icing on the cake, a lot of icing BTW.


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Except Google fan base are used to free stuff, so I don't think asking them to pay $15/mo. for the premium channels will have much attraction. But a DISH HDDVR integrated with Google TV is another story, when you have people who are already paying for the content, then Google TV is icing on the cake, a lot of icing BTW.


Google TV will also be integrated with DISH Network.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20100520/tc_zd/251057


----------



## jocallag339 (May 21, 2010)

I spent over an hour on the phone with D* CSR's and got disconnected once before they finally realized that my H22 with HD enabled that I had been using for MRV beta is not compatible with Whole Home DVR now. What a bummer. They say my only options are to purchase the DECA kit plus install for $99 plus $50 or upgrade the H22 to a new HD DVR but they can not guarantee me that for the $199 I would get a HR24 receiver. I am not sure what to do I should have been able to get my Whole Home DVR activated for the $3 free without having to buy anything else. Any ideas???


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jocallag339 said:


> I spent over an hour on the phone with D* CSR's and got disconnected once before they finally realized that my H22 with HD enabled that I had been using for MRV beta is not compatible with Whole Home DVR now. What a bummer. They say my only options are to purchase the DECA kit plus install for $99 plus $50 or upgrade the H22 to a new HD DVR but they can not guarantee me that for the $199 I would get a HR24 receiver. I am not sure what to do I should have been able to get my Whole Home DVR activated for the $3 free without having to buy anything else. Any ideas???


Don't take this offensive, but to get help you may want to post in the correct thread. This is the Dish Network Google TV thread. 
Hopefully a mod will move this for you, or if you can repost this in the Direct TV MRV thread.


----------



## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

jacmyoung said:


> Except Google fan base are used to free stuff, so I don't think asking them to pay $15/mo. for the premium channels will have much attraction. But a DISH HDDVR integrated with Google TV is another story, when you have people who are already paying for the content, then Google TV is icing on the cake, a lot of icing BTW.


Although it makes sense. There are people that purchase a product for a brand name. I think its a great addition to already existing service but I will guess that if Google Tv were its own stand alone service and offered their service plus tv content it would probably be less expensive and have a lot of the services, interface, and features that the paytv community is asking for. I have always like how Google adjusts their products based on customers needs. They are pretty good about keeping up with what their customers want. But not a bad start for them. Especially as a firmware update that is not going to cost Dish customers extra.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> Google TV will also be integrated with DISH Network.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20100520/tc_zd/251057


I would say the DISH HDDVR will have GoogleTV included, but not the other way around. Having GoogleTV will not get you the DISH service included.

Sounded to me GoogleTV itself will be a free service, or with a nominal fee.


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> I would say the DISH HDDVR will have GoogleTV included, but not the other way around. Having GoogleTV will not get you the DISH service included.
> 
> Sounded to me GoogleTV itself will be a free service, or with a nominal fee.



What else would it mean?
Why after reading that article or any article would you think? Or Think anybody would think, that having GoogleTV would get you Dish Service?

Of Course it means that Dish VIP DVR's will have a GoogleTV integrated with them. Lets hope its all of the ViP's and not just the Internet Tuner capable 922. Granted that would be a GREAT reason to upgrade, and get more 922's to the market.


----------



## DustoMan (Jul 16, 2005)

GrumpyBear said:


> What else would it mean?
> Why after reading that article or any article would you think? Or Think anybody would think, that having GoogleTV would get you Dish Service?
> 
> Of Course it means that Dish VIP DVR's will have a GoogleTV integrated with them. Lets hope its all of the ViP's and not just the Internet Tuner capable 922. Granted that would be a GREAT reason to upgrade, and get more 922's to the market.


There's a quote in one of those articles (I think Engadget) that says that ALL HD DVRs will be supported. Really all that needs to be done is additional support for more HDMI commands that the GoogleTV will send it. We know that receivers can be sent commands over Ethernet so it could be pretty trivial to add those same commands to be accepted over HDMI.

Maybe because of the one poster speculating about HBO that gave some other people here the impression that Google was going to become a service provider. That's not at all what it is.

GoogleTV is a way to search your existing services (cable, fios, dish, OTA) for programming and also integrating that with web search results using a web browser overlay. Anything that can be shown in the Chome browser can be accessed by the TV (Google probably also needs the permission to show it too).

GoogleTV will be integrated into future TVs and settop boxes. They mention blu-ray players, but future satellite receivers have not been ruled out.

For existing systems, there's the GoogleTV add-on box from Logitech. It will sit between your TV and your AV receiver (or other devices if you don't have one). It will control the devices connected behind it via HDMI or IR blasters. It will have a control UI similar to a Harmony Remote. Engadget has a video of iphone and Android phone apps controlling a Logitech box with that UI over Wifi. There will also be remotes with integrated keyboards of various sizes to make typing easier.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

RasputinAXP said:


> So in other words it sounds like it'll be a firmware update to allow for the integration, then plug in the Google box.


Will it work on VIP 722?


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DustoMan said:


> There's a quote in one of those articles (I think Engadget) that says that ALL HD DVRs will be supported. Really all that needs to be done is additional support for more HDMI commands that the GoogleTV will send it. We know that receivers can be sent commands over Ethernet so it could be pretty trivial to add those same commands to be accepted over HDMI.
> 
> Maybe because of the one poster speculating about HBO that gave some other people here the impression that Google was going to become a service provider. That's not at all what it is.
> 
> ...


Dustoman
My response was to Jacmyoung, for even thinking that with GoogleTV you could/would be able to get Dish Network.

The other part was will all ViP DVR's beable to integrate with Google TV without the box, or will just the 922 and its internet tuner, be able to integrate with GoogleTV without the box.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> Thanks for the updated link. Filled out the info already.
> Now lets see if this really does something in the Fall.


What Form??


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> Will it work on VIP 722?


Yes, we'll just need to get the Google TV box that sits in between the 722 and the tv.


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> What Form??


Go to the website, 1st name, lastname, email address, and yes or no to being a dish user. I think there was one or 2 other things, but its easy to to do.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> What else would it mean?
> Why after reading that article or any article would you think? Or Think anybody would think, that having GoogleTV would get you Dish Service?
> 
> Of Course it means that Dish VIP DVR's will have a GoogleTV integrated with them. Lets hope its all of the ViP's and not just the Internet Tuner capable 922. Granted that would be a GREAT reason to upgrade, and get more 922's to the market.


I don't know, I initially said DISH HDDVRs would have GoogleTV integrated in them, you responded as if I was wrong, by saying "GoogleTV *will also be integrated* with DISH...," which let me to clarify if there was any impression that having GoogleTV would get you DISH was not the case, it was a one way street, not a two way street.

Although I am sure if one does not have DISH, but uses GoogleTV, he would have many opportunities to be reminded how great it is to get DISH so he would have the "complete entertainment pacakge."


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> I don't know, I initially said DISH HDDVRs would have GoogleTV integrated in them, you responded as if I was wrong, by saying "GoogleTV *will also be integrated* with DISH...," which let me to clarify if there was any impression that having GoogleTV would get you DISH was not the case, it was a one way street, not a two way street.
> 
> Although I am sure if one does not have DISH, but uses GoogleTV, he would have many opportunities to be reminded how great it is to get DISH so he would have the "complete entertainment pacakge."


I just posted the quote from the Article.
As you were saying a Dish HDDVR with integrated GoogleTV would be a different story. Making sure you read the Article that explained that Dish would be integrated.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

On second thought, this GoogleTV might end up like AppleTV. Will have to wait and see. Giving that Google is clearly good at what they do with the web content, and with DISH in the picture the cable TV content issue (unlike AppleTV) can be resolved too, they stand a much better chance, but I think the jury is still out on this one.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Integrated or not, another old technology wonk John Dvorak says about this Google TV initiative:


> I was entertained myself by the fact that Google, like every other successful Silicon Valley firm, has decided to veer off the tracks and plow into a tree.


See the thread Google announces television initiative.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Integrated or not, another old technology wonk John Dvorak says about this Google TV initiative: See the thread Google announces television initiative.


Yup, chances are most of them will fail, but the one that succeeds will change the game.


----------



## DustoMan (Jul 16, 2005)

jacmyoung said:


> On second thought, this GoogleTV might end up like AppleTV. Will have to wait and see. Giving that Google is clearly good at what they do with the web content, and with DISH in the picture the cable TV content issue (unlike AppleTV) can be resolved too, they stand a much better chance, but I think the jury is still out on this one.


I think it will depend on how much that "companion box" is and how much of a premium GoogleTV will add to new TVs and set top boxes. This needs to be in hardware targeted at the mass market. Not high-end huge HDTVs and $500 Blu-Ray players.



phrelin said:


> Integrated or not, another old technology wonk John Dvorak says about this Google TV initiative: I was entertained myself by the fact that Google, like every other successful Silicon Valley firm, has decided to veer off the tracks and plow into a tree.


Sounds like the "Tech Grouch" that we all know and love. I expect nothing less from him.


----------



## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

Doesn't anyone understand that Google sells ads, not services? All this will get you is more targeted ads in addition to whatever services they offer. You also give up more of your privacy. 

Some people think Google is going too far. So think carefully before you invest in this stuff.

Peace,
Gene


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Gene Steinberg said:


> Doesn't anyone understand that Google sells ads, not services? All this will get you is more targeted ads in addition to whatever services they offer. You also give up more of your privacy.
> 
> Some people think Google is going too far. So think carefully before you invest in this stuff.
> 
> ...


That is, of course, the ultimate goal, a tie in to advertising along with subscription revenue. I really don't think people believe someone is expending the resources involved here so that those who professionally produce content can starve. The idea is to pay for the content and the cost of delivery and make money for Google, Dish, Logitech, Sony, and whatever other corporation gets involved.

Remember, Google and Sony are your friends....


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> That is, of course, the ultimate goal, a tie in to advertising along with subscription revenue. I really don't think people believe someone is expending the resources involved here so that those who professionally produce content can starve. The idea is to pay for the content and the cost of delivery and make money for Google, Dish, Logitech, Sony, and whatever other corporation gets involved.
> 
> Remember, Google and Sony are your friends....


Of course they are in this to make money, but in a new way.

I know personally many people who are not into watching conventional TV, some don't even watch much TV at all, but are big on the Internet thing. This is the next technology many of us conventional TV viewers still cannot see as reality.

Google is at the front center of this new movement, yes AppleTV tried but it did not have serious cable content to bridge the gap between the old and the new. Google likely had learned a few things from AppleTV, which is why DISH is in the picture to ensure the traditional content is in the mix as an important component, not just an after thought. Goolge is clearly also the most successful in developing/acquiring new apps (I don't mean "TiVo app") for the new web generation.

I think this thing has a much better chance than AppleTV, but nothing is guaranteed. One thing I continue to believe is, having closure on the TiVo v. E* case, and hopefully on the TiVo v. Verizon and Uverse cases, will encourage all the guys to finally throw their own weight behind this next effort in linking the traditional cable subs with the new web generations, as Forbes and some other outlets had alluded to, part of the hesitation to get into the new TV game has to do with the continued litigation threats.

We don't know who will come out on top, but there should be no more delay, part of doing so is for the court to clear the path, the first step is taken but it is hard to tell what will they do next, the court is always slow as snail. On the other hand if the parties in those lawsuits are smart, they will not wait for the court to determine their own fate, and I am not suggesting that TiVo should get a windfall as a result either.


----------



## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

From the engadget article, emphasis mine:


> Google's laid out a series of baseline hardware specifications for the Google TV platform, which every piece of gear will share. The heart of the system is the Intel Atom CE4100, which launched at IDF last year. It's *an Atom-based SoC with some additional silicon for decoding dual 1080p video stream, MPEG-4 support, and 3D graphics capabilities. That's joined by some custom DSPs, and things like WiFi, HDMI, and Bluetooth are all required.*


From the Dish Google Tv page:


> Google and DISH Network plan to make the optimized Google TV experience available to customers later this fall. DISH Network will integrate the software to enable this advanced integration on all HD DVR receivers. *Users can then simply connect their Google TV devices to their DISH Network receivers via HDMI.* For more information, visit www.dish.com/googleTV.


Looks to me like we won't wake up one morning and have Google TV. Looks like we'll wake up one morning and have to make a mad dash to Best Buy or somewhere and buy a Google TV device to plug in to our Dish Network receivers. If I'm reading that correctly. If not someone explain to me. I don't think any of the Dish boxes meet the hardware requirements. Maybe wrong and I hope so.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

olguy said:


> From the engadget article, emphasis mine:From the Dish Google Tv page:
> Looks to me like we won't wake up one morning and have Google TV. Looks like we'll wake up one morning and have to make a mad dash to Best Buy or somewhere and buy a Google TV device to plug in to our Dish Network receivers. If I'm reading that correctly. If not someone explain to me. I don't think any of the Dish boxes meet the hardware requirements. Maybe wrong and I hope so.


I second that. The difference is today if you want to do the usual PC stuff on your large screen HDTV, you must accept the generally low resolutions. This thing will clearly change that. If Google keeps its tradition the cost of such a box should be minimal. This reminds me of the fight between Windows and Macs back then.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Ironically, the DVR used for commercial-skipping could become the primary victim of this effort. Internet streaming video offers a real opportunity to prevent commercial-skipping. (I'm ignoring the 2% who will "beat the system" at a great expense of either time and/or hardware.)

I could see the day when a viewer will be able to pay the cable/satellite company subscription fees on the order of premium channel fees ($10-$15 a month) for bundles of channels - NBCU/Comcast, Viacom, News Corp., etc. - offering "first run" commercial-free TV shows that you can record, but which will also be available on line with commercials next week only.

IMHO we are also within the decade that broadcast signals, starting with subchannels, will be encrypted to be received through a subscription-based box such as a TiVo with a card, but offerings will have short commercials.

The quick and easy free lunch that arose in the '90's and bloomed in the '00's will be over by the '20's for most viewers.

Remember, Google and Sony are your friends....


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Technically, you should connect Google TV platform [GTVP] to your HDTV and your network - use it as a core of your home theater (HTPC like) and the platform will provide additional *input * [HDMI+HDCP] for third party devices like dish ViP devices. 
Not sure about 'integration' - how the GTVP will control dish device ? Use own IR blaster, like Sling ?


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Technically, you should connect Google TV platform [GTVP] to your HDTV and your network - use it as a core of your home theater (HTPC like) and the platform will provide additional *input * [HDMI+HDCP] for third party devices like dish ViP devices.
> Not sure about 'integration' - how the GTVP will control dish device ? Use own IR blaster, like Sling ?


It's very unclear how the Dish Network relationship is to be implemented. The article I linked in the first post in the thread Google announces television initiative offers this paragraph:


> The system will be sold through consumer electronics retailer Best Buy, while Logitech will produce a component box and keyboard system that will enable Google TV to connect with existing pay-cable services. No pricing for those devices was announced Thursday. An enhanced version of Google TV will also be available through Dish TV, the satellite TV provider.


My first reaction was that Charlie is integrating the system into Echostar and/or Sling boxes, but which ones we don't know. Then I thought, well maybe it will be just a USB plugin box. And then I thought, no, at heart Charlie is a hardware wonk and won't want to buy hardware from someone else if the software system can be integrated into Echostar Holdings hardware with or without a firmware tweak.

_Good Morning Silicon Valley_ describes it as follows:


> So is it a gadget or a service or what? It's a platform, software that can run in various boxes to incorporate the full Internet with TV programming. For the one-minute rundown, here's a good overview from Gizmodo, and a FAQ from Search Engine Land. Business Insider has pictures from the I/O presentation that show what the user interface looks like.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

In a followup to the advertising discussion, consider this Advertising Age article via Business Insider which states (_*emphasis*_ added):


> While Google TV will only support in-browser online advertising at launch -- meaning Google won't sell TV-specific ads at the start -- the company already supports a TV sales tool. Right now, Google sells video ads through Google TV Ads, an online marketplace for national cable inventory. _*The largest provider of inventory is Dish Network, which is also a Google TV launch partner.*_ TV Ads has delivered 100 billion impressions since it launched in 2007, and Google is currently hiring for the unit. The network has brought a new set of smaller advertisers to the medium -- 30% of TV Ads advertisers are new to TV.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> Go to the website, 1st name, lastname, email address, and yes or no to being a dish user. I think there was one or 2 other things, but its easy to to do.


There was only field for name. And no submit button.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

And another tidbit this time from the Dow Jones Newswire via the WSJ:


> Google Inc. (GOOG) and Dish Network Corp. (DISH) unveiled plans to introduce their television-programming-search service, dubbed Google TV, this fall.
> 
> The service, which runs on TV set-top boxes containing Google software, allows users to find shows on the satellite-TV service as well as video from Web sites like Google's YouTube and consumers' DVRs.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

And finally to really confuse me from Techrockies a "clearer" picture:


> Englewood, Colorado-based satellite TV provider DISH Network said last Thursday with Google that it is tying into Google's new Google TV platform. Google announced the television search and display software yesterday at Google I/O, saying that the software will allow users to simultaneously search both television content and the web and display it on their television screens. Google and DISH said that DISH Network subscribers will make a version of Google TV available to its subscribers in the fall. The two said they began working over a year ago on a joint development process, which implemented Google TV on more than 400 DISH Network and Google users. The two said that the software integration will allow all of DISH Network's HD DVR receivers to connect their Google TV devices via an HDMI connection. Google TV is based on Android and the Google Chrome browser.


So the plan is to use "all of DISH Network's HD DVR receivers via an HDMI connection." Huh?

So I went to the Denver Business Journal which has an article that says:


> The service, called Google TV, debuts in the fall. The Google TV device connects to a Dish Network set-top box through an HDMI connection.


Now I know I don't understand this technology. Is it a pass through with some kind of overlay, HDMI from Dish ViP DVR to Google box to TV?


----------



## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

phrelin. Stop it. You're confusing this old man :lol:


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

It's likely a passthrough box with HDMI in and HDMI out ports; the HDMI 1.4 spec allows for an Ethernet data channel over HDMI, so it can communicate back to the DVR (with the firmware update).


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The thing that gets me is this: "The companies tested the device with 400 Dish Network and Google employees over the past year."

Not one leak on this Forum or over at that other one. And no real details other than I guess the HDMI thing is for real. Damned! Am I going to have to replace my 7-year-old-Pany-plasma-with-no-HDMI earlier than I expected????


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Ironically, the DVR used for commercial-skipping could become the primary victim of this effort.


Those folks I mentioned who do not have conventional cable/sat, but use web for their TV shows, are forced to watch the commercials, part of keeping the cost low. They also suffer from generally one day delay and low resolutions.

I agree the "cannot skip commercial" will remain true, but the PQ quality will improve with GoogleTV, then add the DISH alike in the mix, you can retain the DVR functions for your cable programming.

As far as what kind of hardware arrangement, I am not too worried, I think they know to make it as plug and play as possible if they want to get a good head start. Our ten-year-old component HDTVs in wood crates, that I have no confidence with You can always break it down for firewood.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

RasputinAXP said:


> It's likely a passthrough box with HDMI in and HDMI out ports; the HDMI 1.4 spec allows for an Ethernet data channel over HDMI, so it can communicate back to the DVR (with the firmware update).


But dish is nowhere close to support HDMI 1.2 in their ViPs not telling about 1.4 spec. I'm doubt if existing HW of ViPs allow to use Ethernet over ViP's HDMI.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A USB connection is available on all ViP boxes ... although they would have to work around customers using their USBs for external drives.


----------



## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Ironically, the DVR used for commercial-skipping could become the primary victim of this effort. Internet streaming video offers a real opportunity to prevent commercial-skipping. (I'm ignoring the 2% who will "beat the system" at a great expense of either time and/or hardware.)
> 
> I could see the day when a viewer will be able to pay the cable/satellite company subscription fees on the order of premium channel fees ($10-$15 a month) for bundles of channels - NBCU/Comcast, Viacom, News Corp., etc. - offering "first run" commercial-free TV shows that you can record, but which will also be available on line with commercials next week only.
> 
> ...


Over the air subscription was already tried; it failed when cable and satellite delivered much more content. Some of the over the air stations that became Home Shopping Network in the 1980s, were once over the air subscription TV. WSNL channel 67 on Long Island (Central Islip) was one of those stations (Wometco Home Theatre or something like that); they also had a satellite station in New Jersey on Channel 68. I think LA has something similar in Channel 22 in the mid to late 1970s.

I really doubt broadcast TV would return to this model of "selling", primary or sub channels, by subscription. Also, putting up an antenna is not an option for some people; they are too far from the transmission tower to get an over their air signal or their HOA forbids antennas. So, they end up subscribing to cable or satellite.

As for Google TV; well, the idea of being bombarded with commercials certainly would not have me running to their service. I expect it to look like Hulu, which has shows and movies, plus being forced to watch commercials. Googles content may be newer, but it will follow a similar model. I get bombarded already with the content now on satellite and broadcast TV as it is. Google's model depends on people who want to surf the internet from their TVs. While that may be good for some people; not everyone wants this kind of integration (and the pop up ads that go with it). If I want internet through my TV, I can hook up a PC to my TV and the internet; and do so without having to pay Google or anyone else for that matter.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> A USB connection is available on all ViP boxes ... although they would have to work around customers using their USBs for external drives.


What is amused me, starting from days of DVR921, how dish did try to avoid to pay certification/royalty for an interface and used DishWire instead of FireWire, eventually it come to fiasco before end-life of the DVR.

Now, at least, USB ports carries a logo as certified port, while dish HDMI implementation is still flacky


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

All I know is Echostar/Dish has a 722k DVR working pretty well and Echostar/Sling has a Slingbox PRO HD that works very well. But from the outside it seemed to be very difficult to marry them into a single box, the 922.

Supposedly Charlie & Co. have been working with Google for a year and will be able to do this thing in the fall. Through an HDMI connection....:whatdidid


----------



## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Now, at least, USB ports carries a logo as certified port, while dish HDMI implementation is still flacky


I don't have proof of anything but a 211k the only connected HDMI device seems to have killed my new Panasonic Plasmas HDMI input,component inputs are all that remain working for HD input.

All 3 HDMI TV inputs appear to be non functional at this point.at first it was an intermittent problem that fixed itself after the 211k was reset,all was OK for three to five minutes then a black screen and no audio,after about 10 resets the picture fritzed and went black permanently.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

You raised an interesting point about how "top secret" this DISH/Google beta test was. My wild speculation is, as far fetched as one may think, Google did not want it to be known without knowing the outcome of this TiVo v. E* case, giving that E* had lost its fights all along, until the recent en banc order. Had the en banc order NOT being in E*'s favor this "top secret" mission would likely have never been known.

As far as portability of the DISH HDMI or USB, this is the least of the concerns, I doubt either DISH or Google would have brought the DISH/GoogleTV deal into the open if they could not work in the most efficient way using HDMI.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> As far as portability of the DISH HDMI or USB, this is the least of the concerns, I doubt either DISH or Google would have brought the DISH/GoogleTV deal into the open if they could not work in the most efficient way using HDMI.


Given the fact that if you do a thread title search using HDMI in the ViP612/622/722/722K DVR Support Forum you get 226 threads with many, many focused on problems, I don't share your optimism.

Google and Echostar appear to be birds of a feather when it comes to tech nerds who can make things work. That's fine, but maybe Google CEO Eric Schmidt ought to have his wife Wendy restrict her television viewing to what she can record on a 922 managed by the Sling feature to see how long it is before his choice will be her or Charlie.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Google and Echostar appear to be birds of a feather when it comes to tech nerds who can make things work.


I think those 400 beta testers were beyond just being birds of a feather But you may be right, it could be that the Google/DISH alliance is a mere signal to get TiVo to get on the bandwagon, rather stay in that TX courtroom. Although when it comes to being tech nerds in the marketplace, TiVo has not been so fit for this term either after having moved in and stayed in the courtroom for so long.

How is Sling these days? It was built by some tech nerds, bought out by Charlie, now the tech nerds have been gone for awhile, is it still working out for you guys?


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> How is Sling these days? It was built by some tech nerds, bought out by Charlie, now the tech nerds have been gone for awhile, is it still working out for you guys?


I have no problems with my Slingbox PRO HD. And the Sling website has given me no problems from setup on but for some reason the 922 uses a different Dish web site.

And of course my Slingbox could be hooked up to a Comcast DVR just as easily as my 722.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jacmyoung said:


> I think those 400 beta testers were beyond just being birds of a feather But you may be right, it could be that the Google/DISH alliance is a mere signal to get TiVo to get on the bandwagon, rather stay in that TX courtroom. Although when it comes to being tech nerds in the marketplace, TiVo has not been so fit for this term either after having moved in and stayed in the courtroom for so long.
> 
> How is Sling these days? It was built by some tech nerds, bought out by Charlie, now the tech nerds have been gone for awhile, is it still working out for you guys?


Just come to mine mind - isn't that mystique FD01/FD02 models what recently got own unique FW was the beta devices ?


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

phrelin said:


> I have no problems with my Slingbox PRO HD. And the Sling website has given me no problems from setup on but for some reason the 922 uses a different Dish web site.
> 
> And of course my Slingbox could be hooked up to a Comcast DVR just as easily as my 722.


Now come to think of it, how much credit should we give to a tech nerd anyway? Bill Gates is a nerd, but I would not call him a tech nerd, he is just a nerd, he did fine. Steve Jobs is definitely not a tech nerd. What we need is a vision, with a lot of luck, and hopefully some nerds here and there when needed.

At this point and time, having a lot of tech nerds is not so important, some kind of vision and a lot of luck are what I think is needed. When Charlie and his buddy suddenly decided to sell BUD, that was not a vision, probably due to drunkenness. But what happened after that required vision, and a lot of luck. When he decided to fight TiVo years ago, he probably had a vision, but was met with a lot of bad luck. But if the vision is brilliant, it only needs some good luck to work, it is only a matter of time a luck will come to you, the only question is then, how much time do you have.


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

P Smith said:


> But dish is nowhere close to support HDMI 1.2 in their ViPs not telling about 1.4 spec. I'm doubt if existing HW of ViPs allow to use Ethernet over ViP's HDMI.


It only has to be capable of sending commands through the HDMI port. It's specifically for interdevice communications. We'll see.


----------



## DustoMan (Jul 16, 2005)

phrelin said:


> Now I know I don't understand this technology. Is it a pass through with some kind of overlay, HDMI from Dish ViP DVR to Google box to TV?


For sure that's how the Logitech Companion Box works. It overlays the GoogleTV UI on top of whatever video is getting pumped into the HDMI input. Devices that have the GoogleTV built-in will have it incorporated into the devices existing UI.



P Smith said:


> But dish is nowhere close to support HDMI 1.2 in their ViPs not telling about 1.4 spec. I'm doubt if existing HW of ViPs allow to use Ethernet over ViP's HDMI.


The ability to send commands over HDMI has been there since ver. 1.0 of the spec with additional standard commands added to ver. 1.3a/b/c. There's no reason why custom commands can't be sent over the wire- manufacturers do it all the time. Though it occurred to me that really the GoogleTV doesn't have to send commands over HDMI at all. They could just use the existing IP commands, and just require that the DVR be connected to the same network as the GoogleTV box. HDMI would still be a requirement since 1. the Companion Box has no other video inputs and 2. the HDCP required for HD digital video would remain intact.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

DustoMan said:


> For sure that's how the Logitech Companion Box works. It overlays the GoogleTV UI on top of whatever video is getting pumped into the HDMI input. Devices that have the GoogleTV built-in will have it incorporated into the devices existing UI.
> 
> The ability to send commands over HDMI has been there since ver. 1.0 of the spec with additional standard commands added to ver. 1.3a/b/c. There's no reason why custom commands can't be sent over the wire- manufacturers do it all the time. Though it occurred to me that really the GoogleTV doesn't have to send commands over HDMI at all. They could just use the existing IP commands, and just require that the DVR be connected to the same network as the GoogleTV box. HDMI would still be a requirement since 1. the Companion Box has no other video inputs and 2. the HDCP required for HD digital video would remain intact.


Makes sense to me now. Good explanation.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

From Sky Report today we have SkyBOX: Will Google Gobble You (Not If You're Charlie) which in part notes:


> Which brings me back to my original question: Are we all toast? Will Google's Smart TV gobble up video like it's already gobbled print and much of the internet?
> 
> Well, Charlie Ergen (who no one has ever called dumb) is making a big bet in that direction. His DISH service will reportedly offer the best content management experience for Google TV with some features (most notably a unified TV, DVR, and web search function) available only through DISH.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> It's very unclear how the Dish Network relationship is to be implemented. The article I linked in the first post in the thread Google announces television initiative offers this paragraph: My first reaction was that Charlie is integrating the system into Echostar and/or Sling boxes, but which ones we don't know. Then I thought, well maybe it will be just a USB plugin box. And then I thought, no, at heart Charlie is a hardware wonk and won't want to buy hardware from someone else if the software system can be integrated into Echostar Holdings hardware with or without a firmware tweak.
> 
> _Good Morning Silicon Valley_ describes it as follows:


Heck I could do the same thing with a LG WI FI HDTV they have on QVC.COM. Who needs Google?


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> The thing that gets me is this: "The companies tested the device with 400 Dish Network and Google employees over the past year."
> 
> Not one leak on this Forum or over at that other one. And no real details other than I guess the HDMI thing is for real. Damned! Am I going to have to replace my 7-year-old-Pany-plasma-with-no-HDMI earlier than I expected????


I've had lots of problems with HDMI devices. I guess Google TV is a non starter for me.


----------



## MCSuckaDJ (May 25, 2005)

phrelin said:


> The thing that gets me is this: "The companies tested the device with 400 Dish Network and Google employees over the past year."
> 
> Not one leak on this Forum or over at that other one. And no real details other than I guess the HDMI thing is for real. Damned! Am I going to have to replace my 7-year-old-Pany-plasma-with-no-HDMI earlier than I expected????


That's because they didn't give them to call center employees, and everyone who got one had to sign a very serious non-disclosure.

The original Wall Street Journal article in March was an unintentional leak, though; that one ruffled some feathers.


----------



## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

:welcome_s MCSuckaDJ.
Interesting handle.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

nmetro said:


> Over the air subscription was already tried; it failed when cable and satellite delivered much more content. Some of the over the air stations that became Home Shopping Network in the 1980s, were once over the air subscription TV. WSNL channel 67 on Long Island (Central Islip) was one of those stations (Wometco Home Theatre or something like that); they also had a satellite station in New Jersey on Channel 68. I think LA has something similar in Channel 22 in the mid to late 1970s.
> 
> I really doubt broadcast TV would return to this model of "selling", primary or sub channels, by subscription. Also, putting up an antenna is not an option for some people; they are too far from the transmission tower to get an over their air signal or their HOA forbids antennas. So, they end up subscribing to cable or satellite.
> 
> As for Google TV; well, the idea of being bombarded with commercials certainly would not have me running to their service. I expect it to look like Hulu, which has shows and movies, plus being forced to watch commercials. Googles content may be newer, but it will follow a similar model. I get bombarded already with the content now on satellite and broadcast TV as it is. Google's model depends on people who want to surf the internet from their TVs. While that may be good for some people; not everyone wants this kind of integration (and the pop up ads that go with it). If I want internet through my TV, I can hook up a PC to my TV and the internet; and do so without having to pay Google or anyone else for that matter.


In the 80's there was a service called Star TV which you put a dish up, (microwave) and you tuned to KTSF channel 26 OTA to get two movies a night. It just lasted two years. I had TCI cable then.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

nmetro said:


> Over the air subscription was already tried; it failed when cable and satellite delivered much more content. Some of the over the air stations that became Home Shopping Network in the 1980s, were once over the air subscription TV. WSNL channel 67 on Long Island (Central Islip) was one of those stations (Wometco Home Theatre or something like that); they also had a satellite station in New Jersey on Channel 68. I think LA has something similar in Channel 22 in the mid to late 1970s.
> 
> I really doubt broadcast TV would return to this model of "selling", primary or sub channels, by subscription. Also, putting up an antenna is not an option for some people; they are too far from the transmission tower to get an over their air signal or their HOA forbids antennas. So, they end up subscribing to cable or satellite.
> 
> As for Google TV; well, the idea of being bombarded with commercials certainly would not have me running to their service. I expect it to look like Hulu, which has shows and movies, plus being forced to watch commercials. Googles content may be newer, but it will follow a similar model. I get bombarded already with the content now on satellite and broadcast TV as it is. Google's model depends on people who want to surf the internet from their TVs. While that may be good for some people; not everyone wants this kind of integration (and the pop up ads that go with it). If I want internet through my TV, I can hook up a PC to my TV and the internet; and do so without having to pay Google or anyone else for that matter.


I still have the WWHT antenna mounted on the chimney. Fortunately I managed to read the handwriting on the wall and return the BOX and get my deposit back before they went bust.

It was OK, I still have some Beta & VHS with their content on them.

Google TV is something I might look into if it is reasonable priced for hardware and content. OTOH if it is the same content that Netflix streams then they may have a problem.

I used to enjoy the Burlesque shows on HBO way back when. Offbeat content like that might make me look into it. If however it is the Same ole, same ole. Then who needs it.

Cheers


----------



## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

While I have no knowledge of pricing I would guess the service will be free with the box at a very low price (less then $100). In the vast majority of services that G has offered, it has been free. They want the masses to use it so they can push ads and gather data. I wouldn't doubt that they have an ad revenue sharing plan in place with D* that would allow them to offer the feature at no cost.... though you might have to be subscribed to something like the T250 tier to get it.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/the-next-apple-tv-revealed-cloud-storage-and-iphone-os-on-tap/

Not surpisingly, but I still see one big piece of the puzzle missing from this future AppleTV, that is a full service cable provider (such as DISH, but not Netflix) as an anchor. Maybe they will enlist DirecTV? I would not be surprised to see a similar rumor about Microsoft, they already have ATT/Uverse in their fold.

Let the game begin.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

The word is out, Jobs called his AppleTV a “hobby”. Reading between the lines, I could be right that he might enlist DirecTV just to see if he can turn his hobby into a business. He seemed to say Google/Dish are "smarter people", and of course he is always the smartest

Pure speculation without any knowledge of the business insights, just reading his words and let the imagination go wild.


----------



## JTBenson (Jan 4, 2005)

It has been described to some as "an iPhone without a screen."

Count me out. The big reason I want an internet device for the TV is to watch TV shows and videos off of the internet. Other than You Tube which is HTML5, almost everything else is Flash. The biggest thing I would want is ESPN3 which is Flash.


----------



## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

JTBenson said:


> It has been described to some as "an iPhone without a screen."
> 
> Count me out. The big reason I want an internet device for the TV is to watch TV shows and videos off of the internet. Other than You Tube which is HTML5, almost everything else is Flash. The biggest thing I would want is ESPN3 which is Flash.


Flash is a bug-ridden, resource hungry, malware-prone piece of crap. Thank heavens Steve Jobs has come to realize it's time for Flash to go.

Peace,
Gene


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Gene Steinberg said:


> Flash is a bug-ridden, resource hungry, malware-prone piece of crap. Thank heavens Steve Jobs has come to realize it's time for Flash to go.
> 
> Peace,
> Gene


A HUGE +1 and 
a AMEN


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Gene Steinberg said:


> Thank heavens Steve Jobs has come to realize it's time for Flash to go.
> 
> Peace,
> Gene


Did he say that?


----------



## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

jacmyoung said:


> Did he say that?


Tell me you're not that out of touch.

Peace,
Gene


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Gene Steinberg said:


> Tell me you're not that out of touch.
> 
> Peace,
> Gene


Yes I am, I did not even know what a Flash was, and still do not know for sure Did he say he is dropping Flash?


----------



## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

Flash is a technology from Adobe used to create and play multimedia content on a Web site. 

Peace,
Gene


----------



## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Flash still has its uses, and the 10.1 mobile version is rock solid. I'm looking forward to installing it on my Droid.


----------



## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

RasputinAXP said:


> Flash still has its uses, and the 10.1 mobile version is rock solid. I'm looking forward to installing it on my Droid.


Rock solid? You're living in an alternate universe. The version of Flash displayed at that recent Google conference was slow and horrendously buggy. And you can't use it unless your Droid is capable of being upgraded to Android 2.2. Not all are. Be careful what you wish for. 

Peace,
Gene


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Gene Steinberg said:


> Flash is a technology from Adobe used to create and play multimedia content on a Web site.
> 
> Peace,
> Gene


I take that as a no, Jobs did not say he is going to ditch Flash? Just because Flash did poorly on Google's gears, did not mean Apple would ditch Flash. Did Flash work on AppleTV?


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> I take that as a no, Jobs did not say he is going to ditch Flash? Just because Flash did poorly on Google's gears, did not mean Apple would ditch Flash. Did Flash work on AppleTV?


Steve Jobs made big headlines in April when he dissed Adobe's Flash video player which is not supported on the iPhone or iPad. Here's a good summary article on the issue from NPR What's Behind Apple's Clash With Flash?. It's a big deal because many web sites have become dependent on Flash to generate content. It is proprietary and there have always been alternatives. Adobe just cornered the market. And yes, there are problems with Flash, though it's mostly moron programmer related.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Still no mention of AppleTV. Though I agree whether it is GoogleTV, AppleTV or "WebTV", mobile apps are the key component, but if the BW is the issue with Flash, it at least should not be such an issue in home use.

Regardless, even for home use, BW is the problem. To attract HDTV viewers at home, GoogleTV needs to deliver 1080p web content to 1080p large HD sets. Most of the US does not have the infrastructure for that. It is especially pathetic even in today's new housing development, builders rarely make them fiber ready.

BTW, the Comcast CEO is saying they are not competing with GoogleTV. The reaction from all the major players seems to be, they want to dismiss GoogleTV, yet they know Google cannot be ignored. They can only hope GoogleTV fail.


----------



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's an article about comments by Comcast's COO Steve Burke in response to the Google TV initiative:


> After Comcast merges its cable networks with NBC Universal, Burke will be the guy running the combined entity. So his view of the competitive marketplace - particularly around the cable company's competition with online video services - is important, especially in light of NBC's stake in online video site Hulu. Hulu could launch its own subscription services soon, so some could see its on-demand programming as competitive with Comcast's pay TV services. But Burke dismissed that notion.
> 
> "Our real competitors are the satellite companies and the telephone companies at this moment," Burke said. "To really deliver right now the massive quantity of video - most of our customers have 200 channels, and each one of those channels, 24 hours a day we are delivering video. You really need the infrastructure."
> 
> While Burke acknowledged that the Internet could be used for video delivery, it wasn't ready for the pure tonnage of video content that facilities-based providers could provide. Perhaps more importantly, it's the content that will drive user adoption, he implied. Right now, most folks can get full-length TV shows from Hulu or CBS' TV.com. But if someone wants access to a premium cable channel like an ESPN or USA, they're going to need to sign up for cable - something that's not likely to change anytime soon.


He does say a bit more, so the article is both timely and worth reading.


----------

