# Echo X Launch SUCCESS!!! - February 15 - 3:35pm PT (6:35pm ET)



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It's in the EPG for 6pm-9pm ET Wednesday on Channel 101.
(Actual launch window: 6:35pm-7:24pm ET.)

Launch Information: http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm

Favorite E-10 Thread:
E-10 Info - 49 Spotbeams Nov 2005









Other maps:
Closer look at spotbeam centers
Super Close Look (with spotbeam centers from 119°)
Spotbeam Contours (-6 dB) - Close Up (within ConUS)


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

btw, WTH does any of that crap on the map actually mean? sheesh, do I gotta be a rocket scientist to read a map now ?  haha


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The dots are the center of where the spotbeams are aimed. Numbers given are the spotbeam number and what transponders are possible on that transponder (as of the original filing).

The maps with circles (contours) show where each spotbeam would be useful.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

hmm, those "spots" are a lot larger than the "local" tv areas. must make it fun trying to fit all the locals in there


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Looking at the spotbeam map it looks like I will need only one dish to get all of my locals is the San Francisco area. i think that this bird is being used for areas were two dishes are needed to get all of the locals


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Exactly.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Is it too early to know if the Seattle HD locals will be off 129 or 110 or if they are tied in any way to this launch?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Too early.


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## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

Hi James 

In the Puerto Rico Spotbeam T49, How much channels can they put up.
I know that ECHOSTAR 8 has space for 12 channels. 

Thanks 
Nelson


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E10 has five transponders on the spotbeam pointed at Puerto Rico.
The "12 channels" you note would be one spotbeam.
Lots of space.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

A Cuba spotbeam??? Is E10 the new home of "TV Marti"?


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## TUCKER (Jan 4, 2006)

james do u think they wiil add more dma's with this new satellite . bangor maine needs them bad


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Personally, I believe EVERY DMA will have SD locals by this time NEXT year.
But that's just me.


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## lnyoung (Oct 4, 2005)

I sure hope you are right. Trying to be a loyal Dish customer, with a 942 and without locals, is very difficult.

Anything that can be done to hurry getting the Corpus Christi locals on the satellite would be greatly appreciated.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> Personally, I believe EVERY DMA will have SD locals by this time this year.
> But that's just me.


this year or next year?


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## LUNASDUDE (Feb 2, 2006)

Just curious, don't laugh but any chance of getting local Channels in HD in the Albuquerque area? Seriously stop laughing! We know were in the middle of no where but we have money and can watch HDTV with the best of them! So what's you opinion?


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

actually that market is already uplinked on 129


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## LUNASDUDE (Feb 2, 2006)

BFG said:


> actually that market is already uplinked on 129


 think you were talking to me? if thats true then why doesn't DN know anything about it? when you call them they say (in order) Where? Local HD? not available for that market?:nono2:


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Most CSRs don't know anything that's not available to be subscribed to in their system.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Not available YET but in test mode nonetheless.

(Prior post edited for Rogueone. )


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HALT

No launch today. Launch date to be determined.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Bummer!!! Anyone know how common this is for the Sea Launch deals? I know it's not terribly uncommon for NASA but this is a bit different.


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## LUNASDUDE (Feb 2, 2006)

James Long said:


> Not available YET but in test mode nonetheless.
> 
> (Prior post edited for Rogueone. )


TEST? So any guess when we get to join the rest of the United States is HD?
Seriously we are part of the GOOD old USA! Look between AZ & TX and BAM! :eek2: There we are!
No kidding! President [email protected]@@ has even been here a few times! (Reminds us that he loves us!)


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## alexdw (Jan 31, 2006)

James Long said:


> HALT
> 
> No launch today. Launch date to be determined.


The web feed from Sea-Launch is still showing the image/music they were before E* Ch 101 switched to the Mission Postponed slate, so don't bother with that. They seem to have had a few launch delays before this, so I guess we shouldn't be suprised. It still sucks, though... I was hoping to see a nice launch today. It's been quite a while for me. Ah well, maybe later this week.


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

BAH! Wonder why ?


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## alexdw (Jan 31, 2006)

SMosher said:


> BAH! Wonder why ?


No word yet on the Sea Launch web site.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

LUNASDUDE said:


> TEST? So any guess when we get to join the rest of the United States is HD?


They'll turn it up when a couple of important conditions are met:

o The spotbeam covers the desired area and the signal is acceptable
o The locals all have their uplink working.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

bobukcat said:



> Bummer!!! Anyone know how common this is for the Sea Launch deals? I know it's not terribly uncommon for NASA but this is a bit different.


I covered two launches, there are so many things that have to be just right, I mean HUNDREDS of things. First launch I covered was scrubbed four weeks in a row. But you simply have no idea.

Weather at sea level, weather at transonic transition, weather downrange, perhaps a similar satellite in production that had a "glitch".... simply amazing how careful they have to be.

You only get one shot once the booster lights off.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> They'll turn it up when a couple of important conditions are met:
> 
> o The spotbeam covers the desired area and the signal is acceptable
> o The locals all have their uplink working.


Not so: Albuquerque will get HD locals before March 13th. It's testing on 129° and has nothing to do with spotbeams.


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## devough (Jan 3, 2005)

The rocket and satellite are ok. The launch platform has and issue. The launch will likely be delayed for several days.


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## alexdw (Jan 31, 2006)

*The E* Ch101 slate says...*


devough said:


> The rocket and satellite are ok. The launch platform has and issue. The launch will likely be delayed for several days.


OK, so the rocket didn't blow up ;-) The official "live feed" from Sea Launch has a new slate up: "We have halted the EchoStar X launch. Rescheduling information will be posted on the Sea Launch Website."

I like E*'s info better.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* is talking to E* as well as us!


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## CoreyH (Jul 4, 2005)

James Long said:


> Personally, I believe EVERY DMA will have SD locals by this time NEXT year.
> But that's just me.


I very much doubt that. If E* were going to actually do the 210 by next year they would say so. By saying nothing, E* is effectively saying they are in fact not doing it. E* is nothing if not a smart company - if they could stop people from switching to D* by promising a date certain for LIL SD - they would.

E* has clearly changed their mind about where they want to spend their bandwidth - and it's on HD LIL. Today marks the umpteenth Retailer Chat with no new locals.

I'll eat my words at Team Summit in Denver this summer if E* tells me otherwise.

I am beginning to think E* is math-challenged though.

There are three E8 spotbeam transponders pointing at Minnesota now and E* has fixed the split local issue in Mpls and surrounding markets in the spotbeam footprint. E* is sending 12, 13 and 12 channels on transponders 2, 8, and 10 respectively on spotbeam 7.

E* could add a channel to either 2s7 or 10s7 and light up Mankato, MN. They could have done this 6 months ago when they figured out they could reliably do 13 channels per TP without terrible PQ. They could still beat D* to the punch by launching Mankato if they cared to - but they clearly don't.

E* will have transponders 4 and 12 on spotbeam 28 on E10 when it launches. E* is launching Minneapolis HD LIL before March 13 - so that means they are not planning on using E10.

What the heck is E* going to do with two empty E10 spotbeam TP's in Minnesota?


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

So will Madison, WI be moved from 121 to 110?


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## UHF (Jan 11, 2005)

CoreyH said:


> E* could add a channel to either 2s7 or 10s7 and light up Mankato, MN.


But why bother? Is there a crappier station than KEYC? I don't recall ever really watching it, but then we were in a location that also had Sioux Falls and Sioux City on cable. KEYC was the only thing I could get OTA.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

CoreyH said:


> What the heck is E* going to do with two empty E10 spotbeam TP's in Minnesota?


Mankato?

E* is under certain pressures at the moment.
1) Bandwith is at a premium until E-10 is successfully launched and placed AT 110°.
2) Congress has ordered 'one dish' for locals effective in late May/early June.

Adding a small market (or even a medium market) costs money. Money that is not easily recouped. Right now I believe E* is concentrating on the big picture ... not losing any markets in May ... rather than spending time looking for creative ways to jam more in.

The markets will come. E* sees locals as the last barrier keeping people from switching from cable.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

James Long said:


> Mankato?
> 
> E* is under certain pressures at the moment.
> 1) Bandwith is at a premium until E-10 is successfully launched and placed AT 110°.
> ...


And watches Minneapolis stations.


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## geno58 (Jan 14, 2006)

James Long said:


> Not so: Albuquerque will get HD locals before March 13th. It's testing on 129° and has nothing to do with spotbeams.


James, do you happen to know when the Indianapolis HD locals are scheduled to be up??


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Nope. The first five were announced on the Charlie Chat so they are easy to speak clearly about ... the rest are all "expected" not "promised".


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## aussiejohn (Jan 3, 2006)

LUNASDUDE said:


> TEST? So any guess when we get to join the rest of the United States is HD?
> Seriously we are part of the GOOD old USA! Look between AZ & TX and BAM! :eek2: There we are!
> No kidding! President [email protected]@@ has even been here a few times! (Reminds us that he loves us!)


Perhaps if Gov. Richardson does his usual "I want Dish" we can get it.

I'd heard that Dish hoped to get 50 DMAs up by end of 2006, we'd be 46th, it could work.

Now if only I could get a 622 into the area so I could start watching sat tv I'd be happy.


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

Sea Launch halted the countdown for the launch of the EchoStar X satellite on February 8, due to an off-nominal indication from the mechanical ground support equipment. We will post additional information about our next launch opportunity as details become available. Both the satellite and the rocket are in excellent condition.

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## diospyros (Nov 14, 2005)

Just looked at Sea Launch webcam and noticed that rocket has been taken off the launch platform. It was there 24 hours ago, don't know when they removed it. Don't know how difficult it is to put it back in place.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Probably lowered it to protect it from the weather.
It's easy to put back.


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## JmC (Jun 10, 2005)

Sea Launch is now preparing for the launch of the EchoStar X satellite on Sunday, February 12, at the opening of a 49-minute launch window, at 3:35pm PST (23:35 GMT).


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## hankmack (Feb 8, 2006)

After halting the countdown for launch on February 8, Sea Launch is now preparing for the launch of the EchoStar X satellite on Sunday, February 12, at the opening of a 49-minute launch window, at 3:35pm PST (23:35 GMT). On this mission, Sea Launch will insert the 4333 kg (9,553 lb) communications satellite into a high perigee geosynchronous transfer orbit.

EchoStar X will join EchoStar's current fleet of nine satellites that provide DISH Network customers with hundreds of all-digital television channels, including interactive TV services, sports programming, high definition television and international programming.

Pasted from Sea Launch site.


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## kq6ea (Jan 13, 2006)

Sorry, guys. Doesn't look like it will be Sunday, either.
Sure is a beautiful day out here!
Jim


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Was there another delay announced?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


> Launch plans for Sunday have been scrubbed. The Sea Launch team is currently working an issue at the launch site. We will post updated information on launch preparations, as available.


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## StarTech (Oct 2, 2004)

SMosher said:


> BAH! Wonder why ?


Dive bomber pelicans wearing DTV installer hats......poop on the guidance system


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## I'm Kurt (Feb 12, 2006)

This satellite Echostar X will work in conus channels......


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Some ConUS channels will no longer be ConUS but will be used for spotbeams by E10. As far as we can tell, there are no ConUS transponders on the new satellite (another satellite will have to remain at 110° to serve the ConUS transponders to customers).


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## I'm Kurt (Feb 12, 2006)

James Long said:


> Some ConUS channels will no longer be ConUS but will be used for spotbeams by E10. As far as we can tell, there are no ConUS transponders on the new satellite (another satellite will have to remain at 110° to serve the ConUS transponders to customers).


thanks you...

other sat?....when launch this sat for conus channel....this sat will replace Echo 6 ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are already two other satellites at 110° (where E10 is going). Most likely E8 will stay and do the ConUS duties and E6 will either move elsewhere (perhaps to help or replace E5 at 129°) or be "turned off" to serve as an in-orbit spare.

At this point E* does not have permission to put E10 at 110° ... but they are working on it and do have permission to launch E10 and test it at 138.5°. (This isn't a customer test - so you don't need a 138.5° dish unless you're really curious.)


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

LUNASDUDE said:


> So any guess when (New Mexico) gets to join the rest of the United States...?


Prior to the 1996 Olympics in ATL, according to a news report at the time, the U.S. Olympic Committee declined a phone order for event tickets from a caller from NM because, the order-taker said, it was against USOC rules to sell tickets to callers from a foreign country. 

My eldest son and family now live east of ABQ in that "foreign" country. I've even traveled there without the necessity of a passport. Lovely place, IMO, but it needs a few more trees. :lol:

:backtotop


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

Nick said:


> Prior to the 1996 Olympics in ATL, according to a news report at the time, the U.S. Olympic Committee declined a phone order for event tickets from a caller from NM because, the order-taker said, it was against USOC rules to sell tickets to callers from a foreign country.
> 
> My eldest son and family now live east of ABQ in that "foreign" country. I've even traveled there without the necessity of a passport. Lovely place, IMO, but it needs a few more trees. :lol:
> 
> :backtotop


The Actual quote from the phone operator, when the person ordering the tickets pleaded that she lived in NEW MEXICO, was "Old Mexico, New Mexico same thing, we can't mail tickets out of the country".

John


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## I'm Kurt (Feb 12, 2006)

James Long said:


> There are already two other satellites at 110° (where E10 is going). Most likely E8 will stay and do the ConUS duties and E6 will either move elsewhere (perhaps to help or replace E5 at 129°) or be "turned off" to serve as an in-orbit spare.
> 
> At this point E* does not have permission to put E10 at 110° ... but they are working on it and do have permission to launch E10 and test it at 138.5°. (This isn't a customer test - so you don't need a 138.5° dish unless you're really curious.)


Thanks you very much.....


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

alexdw said:


> The web feed from Sea-Launch is still showing the image/music they were before E* Ch 101 switched to the Mission Postponed slate, so don't bother with that. They seem to have had a few launch delays before this, so I guess we shouldn't be suprised. It still sucks, though... I was hoping to see a nice launch today. It's been quite a while for me. Ah well, maybe later this week.


you won't die without HD!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

See post 48 above. It got scrubbed yesterday.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

From the recent (Sunday evening or early Monday morning GMT) webcam pictures from the Sea Launch website, the launch vehicle is back out on deck of the ship in a horizontal position. This was not the case this morning so perhaps they will try to launch either Monday the 13th or Tuesday the 14th.

By the way in some of the recent postings by Dish in the FCC applications related to their E-10 interference battle with DirecTV, there is mention of E-10 interference with E-8 CONUS beams but no mention of interference with E-6 CONUS beams. This certainly hints at E-6 being moved to another of Dish's DBS slots.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I don't believe E-6 will work at 110° with E-10 there. IIRC it's receive dish is ConUS so it would severely limit the number of uplinks available to E-10. E-8 has the two receive links (Colorado and Arizona) and could more easily reject the signals from the new uplink centers.

I'm expecting Tuesday at the earliest.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

James Long said:


> I don't believe E-6 will work at 110° with E-10 there. IIRC it's receive dish is ConUS so it would severely limit the number of uplinks available to E-10. E-8 has the two receive links (Colorado and Arizona) and could more easily reject the signals from the new uplink centers.
> 
> I'm expecting Tuesday at the earliest.


E-6 certainly could be used to help E-7 at 119 W especially if most if not all of the E-7 spotbeams are shutdown. (I know we disagree with this possibility) E-5 appears to need some help at 129 W especially with its apparent problems with doing 8PSK but the Canadian licensing at 129 W maybe a problem. Dish could also move E-6 to 148 W and then move at least E-2 to 61.5 W to help E-3 with the even TPs there.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Plenty of options. First step: get E10 up there and in place!


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Couldn't they get E5 and E6 working together at 129 providing spotbeam HD-Locals instead of Conus on E5. Sure some beams wont align but they will be able to figure out what does and doesn't work and plan around that...


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

alebowgm said:


> Couldn't they get E5 and E6 working together at 129 providing spotbeam HD-Locals instead of Conus on E5. Sure some beams wont align but they will be able to figure out what does and doesn't work and plan around that...


If memory serves, neither E5 or E6 carry any spotbeams.


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## JmC (Jun 10, 2005)

I just noticed that the Zenit-3SL rocket is back in the upright position. Maybe the launch time is a near.


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

Sea Launch is counting down to the launch of the EchoStar X broadcast satellite, February 15, at 3:35 pm PST (23:35 GMT). All systems are nominal at this time and ready for liftoff.

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## Sherlock (Mar 24, 2002)

Anybody making odds for Wednesday being a go?:scratchin


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

3rd times a charm


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

AMC 1 - Ku 18 upper DVB
12069 V
SR 13235


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

On the air now on CH101 ... hopefully this one will go.


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## MrAkai (Aug 10, 2002)

James Long said:


> On the air now on CH101 ... hopefully this one will go.


L+10:00 and all's well.

Would it kill them for some aspect radio consistancy on the webcast? the cameras on the platform are 16:9 and the host in the broadcast center is 4:3. ;/


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It's possible that the site cameras are PAL/SECAM instead of NTSC. There are portions that look like it was streamed video instead of a full video feed. The interview segment looks clean.

E10 provides "local TV for all" ... interesting comment from the E* guy.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Yep we watched it go up here at work. Looks like so far so good!:hurah:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

1h03m - Spacecraft Seperation - Nominal and on time
Next step: Acqisition of a signal from the satellite in about 35minutes.


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

Right on!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

101 is showing some cool videos between the yacking.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*T + 1h47m - Spacecraft Acquisition !!!! 8:22pm ET*


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## kq6ea (Jan 13, 2006)

Good launch, and good acquisition by the first ground station.


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

Now where are my HD locals ? :grin:


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

Sorry if that has already been answered. 

What type of programing is Echo X going to be used for?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnGfun said:


> Sorry if that has already been answered.
> 
> What type of programing is Echo X going to be used for?


It is a massive spot beam satellite. Check the first post in this thread and the thread linked from it for details.


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## GeorgeLV (Jan 1, 2006)

JohnGfun said:


> Sorry if that has already been answered.
> 
> What type of programing is Echo X going to be used for?


I'll take single-dish must carry and hd locals for $100, Alex. It's a spot-beam only bird. No national programming.


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## JohnGfun (Jan 16, 2004)

Thanks


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

Forgive me if this was asked, but what is Echo X? I know it's a satellite, but what is it used for??? I seen the spotbeam stuff but what does this all mean?


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Basically, Dish goes and instead of providing a beam to all of the CONUS (Continenal United States), provides a lot of smaller 'spot' beams to more localized areas. The reason they do this is because they can therefore reuse the same transponders (think of them reusing the same signal) over and over again and therefore save bandwith. Think of a flashlight. You can have one large flashlight that has a large beam on the wall, but you are now constrained to one signal for everyone. By using multiple, smaller flashlights, you can now reuse frequencies.

That is also why Spotbeam transponders have higher signals, because they are more focused on one area. 

Orignally, (like 6 or 7 years ago), Dish and DirecTV never used spotbeams, but now that they are racing to see who will hit 100% coverage of DMAs in the USA, not to mention way more stations than there were years ago, spotbeams are the most efficent thing for Dish to use.

So why Echo X. Well, Echo 8 is in orbit and provides spotbeams on the 110 orbital location. It has pretty much been the primary Spotbeam satellite for Echostar (aside from E7 which also has Spots at 119). By replacing E6 with E10, they now have more efficent, and smaller spotbeams, as E8 will become CONUS, which will allow more locals to be broadcasted from the primary 110/119 orbital slot as opposed to having locals spread about among 61/105/110/119/121/129/148 (with potential for 77 in the South CONUS and 157 for the Pacific CONUS/Alaska/Hawaii). Additionally, new laws mandate that locals can not be split across satellites, so they cant have one NYC local on 61 and another on 110. 

The end result, more locals will now be on 110 and shifted from 105 and/or 121. Some reshuffling will occur, with a possibility for smaller DMAs in the North east to be added to 61, and those who are in larger markets that have locals on 105/121 to now be on the smaller. That isn't to say 105/121 are useless, as not all locals will be shifted (at least I wouldnt think so). I could see 121 being totally cleared off and only international stations. 

We won't know the full impact of E10 for probably another year (although E10 will be in use very soon), until Echostar gets all of the reshuffling and new channel launches done, although come late spring/early summer (6-8 weeks from now), E10 is expcted to be in use and we will see the first major change in Echostar programming in a while...

Also, E6's future is heavily speculated to go pretty much everywhere in the spectrum. Personally, I hope it winds up at 129 and offers spotbeam coverage along side with E5, which could potentially put 80 or 90% of DMAs on the Dish1000, with only a few select markets needing wings or Superdish's... it is also possible E6 could be sold to Nimiq or to Sky, or just kept as a spare, perhaps it shifting to 157 if Echo attempts to get its transponders back on that orbital location. 

Not to hijack or anything, but would like to mention that Rainbow 1, which works with E3 over at 61, also has Spotbeams which are not being used and could also be potentially in the future...


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Yes, there is a lot of rambling in that thread, just getting everything I could think of out there in response to the previous question...


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

> I'll take single-dish must carry and hd locals for $100, Alex. It's a spot-beam only bird. No national programming.


hence why E8 will be tag teamed with E10...

I think E8 got sick of E6 as his partner and decided to go with the younger girl (or guy, whatever floats your boat  )... now E6 knows how E5 feels... hehe


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Just some links for Spotbeams, since we are on the topic

61.5 Rainbow 1 - http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/rldbs1.gif
110 Echostar 8 - http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/echo8.gif
110 Echostar 10 - http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/echo10.gif <- This is just a guess
119 Echostar 7 - 
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/echo7itu.gif

Take a look at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/297


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

From Sea Launch: The Zenit-3SL vehicle lifts off at 3:35pm PT (23:35 GMT), from the Odyssey Launch Platform, positioned in the Pacific at 154 degrees West Longitude. All systems performed nominally throughout the flight. The Block DM-SL upper stage inserted the 4,333 kg (9,553 lb.) EchoStar X satellite to GTO, on its way to a final orbital position of 110 degrees West Longitude. A ground station in Uralla, Australia, acquired the first signal from the satellite, as planned.

From Boeing: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q1/060215c_nr.html


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Minor correction alebowgm -
E6 does not have spotbeams, E8 is the current spotbeam bird at 110°.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

so what's this echox spotbeam stuff all about again?  j/k


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

alebowgm said:


> Yes, there is a lot of rambling in that thread, just getting everything I could think of out there in response to the previous question...


That's okay. Thanks for explaining it in plain english. I kinda new the gist, but you provided some good insight for us newbies.


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## LUNASDUDE (Feb 2, 2006)

Sorry for not responding back sooner!
and sorry for the ramble!

James, thanks for answer on the local HD channels! of course now that i have my OTA working well they will bring them in!:grin:

and


JohnL said:


> The Actual quote from the phone operator, when the person ordering the tickets pleaded that she lived in NEW MEXICO, was "Old Mexico, New Mexico same thing, we can't mail tickets out of the country".
> John


Yeah and were one of the only states the US that has "USA" on our license plates! "New Mexico USA"
If memory serves me right, a School teacher moved to NY about 15yrs ago and went to enroll her kids in the NY school system and they told her she had to have the kids immigration cards and International shot records!:lol:

The Satellite is up! WOOHOO:hurah: 
I'm so glad to see E* launching new Satts!
That tells me the $$$$$$$ I have invested in new equipment over the years is not going to go to waste!


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## Doggfather (Apr 19, 2004)

man its amazing how far off some facts can go on the internet via speculation... hah ;0 As James said, Echo 6 is NOT a spot beam. Echo 7 was the first Dish spot beam bird. What will happen which I know 100% (you can all argue on how ;0 ) Is that echo 6 is moving elsewhere (dont know where), and Echo 8 which did have spots is having all spots tuned off and going full conus only @ 110 with Echo 10 offering up *ALL* the 110 spots. Expect to see this change within 6 weeks of Echo X launch approx.. ;0

before I'm asked, no my crystal ball knows no more and i dont know where elvis is either... ;0

-Doggfather


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

> [Minor correction alebowgm -
> E6 does not have spotbeams, E8 is the current spotbeam bird at 110°.


I was bound to make a mistake, just based on the time I was trying to get that all out of my head...

my bad, hehe, James is correct, as always...


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Doggfather said:


> man its amazing how far off some facts can go on the internet via speculation... hah ;0 As James said, Echo 6 is NOT a spot beam. Echo 7 was the first Dish spot beam bird. What will happen which I know 100% (you can all argue on how ;0 ) Is that echo 6 is moving elsewhere (dont know where), and Echo 8 which did have spots is having all spots tuned off and going full conus only @ 110 with Echo 10 offering up *ALL* the 110 spots. Expect to see this change within 6 weeks of Echo X launch approx.. ;0
> 
> before I'm asked, no my crystal ball knows no more and i dont know where elvis is either... ;0
> 
> -Doggfather


cool, so Mr. Brainiac-type-person, what will E8 be transmitting? will it offer more HD national stuff or strictly SD? any clues on how many spots on 10 will be for HD locals versus regular locals etc? this is cool stuff, give us MORE!! hahaha


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## Doggfather (Apr 19, 2004)

hah ! ;0 Like i said i dont know any more than that... your guess is as good as mine on that... 

-Doggfather


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

It looks like the performance of the Zenit-3SL was almost right on target. This should minimize the time it takes to circularize the orbit of the E-10 satellite. Here is the performance data from the Sea Launch website:

http://sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

11km off - not bad! (6 miles)


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

James Long said:


> 11km off - not bad! (6 miles)


Hitting the inclination exactly (0.0) really simplifies the circularization process.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Very true. Unfortunately Sea-Launch's job is over so we'll have to watch other sources to see E10 arrive geostationary for testing. I look forward to when you notice the FCC giving permission to put it at 110° - thanks for keeping up on such details.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I wasn't home.. But - Cool! .. They launched it looks like


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## paychekkk (Jan 15, 2006)

James Long said:


> Not so: Albuquerque will get HD locals before March 13th. It's testing on 129° and has nothing to do with spotbeams.


James
If I understand you right, the Albuquerque locals are on test on 129. If so, I will have to aim my extra dish that way. Can I find them in test mode.
Thanx
Mikey


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You won't be able to see them on an E* receiver until they are activated. We know they are there primarily through looking at an index table that is not encrypted that says they are there.


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## paychekkk (Jan 15, 2006)

James Long said:


> You won't be able to see them on an E* receiver until they are activated. We know they are there primarily through looking at an index table that is not encrypted that says they are there.


Thanx James, I was just hoping it was not going to be many many months away. Thanx for helping keep this great forum alive!
:righton:


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Well, just because they are uplinked there, doesn't mean they may not be monthes away. OLN has been uplinked for the majority of its dispute since September with Dish (I think it was off for like 3 or 4 weeks), but that doesn't mean there is any future in store for them. The same goes with some locals, they will keep them in test mode for a long time...

Although, with the way Echostar is pumping out the HD Locals lately, they probably wont be a long time away...


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Dish will probably end up keeping all three satellites at 110. They pretty much need to do this so that they can broadcast on all the TPs at double power. E8 and E6 can do double power on 16 TPs, but Dish has 29 TPs, 10 to E10 leaves 19 that need to be covered. They could run some TPs at lower power to free up a satellite.

The other issue is that Dish is stretching their backup very thin. Right now if E7 had a problem they would lose 119 since they moved E5 away.

I do not really see them moving E8 or E6 away from 110. Keeping both there could help in an emergency, until they get E11 up next year to help.

Right now Echostar has 4 satellites in the pipe. E11 for next year, a Ku-AUX, and 2 Ka band ones (2008).

They have 2 Ka-AUX slots that they need to get a satellite built for and then they really need to build some satellites to start replacing the wing ones. E3 is slowly dying.


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## springdale_sam (Jan 14, 2006)

I was wondering does this mean that I will get all my locals. I live in North West Arkansas and I don't get my local UPN or WB.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yes ... when E10 is in place the 'extra locals' that one needs a second dish for will all be on 110°.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

> Yes ... when E10 is in place the 'extra locals' that one needs a second dish for will all be on 110°.


Probably!!! They could, in theory, put all the locals on one of the wings instead and be within their legal rights in doing so...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

VERY unlikely.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Agreed... although I still see some locals being on wings, such as what is happening over on 148... Again, it goes back to the markets that only have 1 or 2 stations in the DMA, there are so few customers to be had at that point they can get away with it...

Then again, having lots of bandwith to play with, or at least many options to play with, is a nice thing to have...


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Mike123abc said:


> Dish will probably end up keeping all three satellites at 110. They pretty much need to do this so that they can broadcast on all the TPs at double power. E8 and E6 can do double power on 16 TPs, but Dish has 29 TPs, 10 to E10 leaves 19 that need to be covered. They could run some TPs at lower power to free up a satellite.
> 
> The other issue is that Dish is stretching their backup very thin. Right now if E7 had a problem they would lose 119 since they moved E5 away.
> 
> I do not really see them moving E8 or E6 away from 110. Keeping both there could help in an emergency, until they get E11 up next year to help.


First, I believe the double power requirement for CONUS Tps at 110 W and at 119 W for that matter is primarily for subscribers in Alaska and Hawaii. I believe Dish will move E-6 after E-10 is operational at 110 W and some of the FCC filings related to the E-10 interference dispute with DirecTV appear to hint that E-6 will be moved from 110 W. My guess would be E-6 will be moved to 119 W to help out E-7 and this is what I think Dish will do. After E-10 is operational at 110 W, all the E-7 spotbeams will be shutdown and the 119 W slot will be used entirely for CONUS programming provided at double power by both E-6 and E-7. Doing this frees up 3 Tps for CONUS programming at 110/119.

It is known that E-6, E-7 and E-8 can provide 16 CONUS TPs at double power mode and E-7 is doing that right now as well as providing 25 spotbeam Tps. I believe E-8 could do 16 Tps at double power and providing the 3 remaining CONUS Tps at 110 W at single power because it will no longer be providing 25 spotbeams. The 3 single powered Tps at 110 W will be mirrored on the extra spotbeam Tps that are provided for Alaska and Hawaii by E-10. Note that E-10 provides both Alaska and Hawaii with 7 spotbeam Tps, more than enough to do both SD and HD locals and still use 3 Tps for these mirrored channels.

In regards to E-11, it is definitely a DBS satellite based on FCC filings expected to be launched in early 2007. Others have posted on this or other forums that it will have steerable spotbeams, 112 IIRC. What this means is that Dish can locate the satellite at multiple slots and still use all the spotbeams. My best guess is that E-11 will be designed for both 129 W and 110 W. Dish will ask the FCC and Canadian government to allow E-11 to be used at 129 W until Ciel's massive spotbeam satellite is launched to 129 W in mid to late 2008. The fact that E-11 has steerable spotbeams allows Dish to sell this to the FCC. After the Ciel satellite is launched, E-11 will be moved to 110 W and serve as a backup for the E-10 spotbeams and provide the CONUS Tps as well. It also maybe able to augment some of the E-10 spotbeams. With E-11 at 129 W along with E-10 at 110 W, Dish will be able to provide a large number of HD locals using either a D500 or D1000 dish by mid 2007. Dish will be able to move all national HD programming to 110/119 in early 2007 by transitioning some of the SD programming to 8PSK as well as moving all HD programming to MPEG-4.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

man this is all so interesting, too bad I don't understand it all  coming into the discussion too late I guess (meaning in the sense I don't understand some of the technical issues with spots and power and these old stas versus new, other than one is old and one is new haha)


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

A couple of other tidbits of information from the SpaceFlight Now website. E-10 should get to 138.5 W in seven to 10 days. i.e., about February 25th. Dish is expecting to have E-10 operational at 110 W by the end of April. Here's the SpaceFlight Now website address:

http://spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/echostar10/


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

> A couple of other tidbits of information from the SpaceFlight Now website. E-10 should get to 138.5 W in seven to 10 days. i.e., about February 25th. Dish is expecting to have E-10 operational at 110 W by the end of April. Here's the SpaceFlight Now website address:


So basically, JohnH is going to have to setup a satellite pointed at 138.5 on the 25th of this month and do a scan to see what is going on there 

Have fun!!!


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

alebowgm said:


> So basically, JohnH is going to have to setup a satellite pointed at 138.5 on the 25th of this month and do a scan to see what is going on there
> 
> Have fun!!!


I don't think JohnH is going to have much luck finding anything at 138.5. There may be info in the tables found at other locations, but the chances of him actually receiving anything from E10 are slim. Remember that it carrys no ConUS transponders (all spotbeams) and was built for 110. With that in mind and the bird being 28.5 degrees west of where it's supposed to be, how many of those spots are likely to hit southeastern PA? My guess: zero.


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## albert71292 (Aug 19, 2005)

If they could manage to put all my major locals here in the Eldorado,Ark/Monroe,LA area on 110 so I could get them without having to upgrade to a Superdish, I would probably subscribe to them. *KTVE-10 (NBC) comes in rather fuzzy even on my tall roof antenna, while the rest of the stations are clear as a bell. When I called to ask about a Superdish upgrade up from my 500, they said it would be $50, and asked for a credit card number (which I don't have).

*=Referring to analog OTA signals, not buying a digital television till my old Sony Trinitron "dies".


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

Will this accelerate their local hd deployment schedule. I live in dallas (T21 spotbeam), so I was trying to figure this out? Also will it be MPEG 4 dependent?


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## Doggfather (Apr 19, 2004)

Mike123abc,
Echo 6 will not be needed in an augment scenario... with spots off of Echo 8, it has plenty of power to do all of the conus feeds... Either way, I am 100% confident (something i dont say easily or lightly just for sh!ts and Giggles) that Echo 6 is not staying at 110 (i don't know where it is going yet). It will be Echo 8 and Echo 10 at 110 for now. No clue at all though of where echo 11 will go next year... I am also told that there will be no major changes to 119 in 2006... again, that isnt speculation.. ;0 Hope that helps!

-Doggfather


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

> Will this accelerate their local hd deployment schedule. I live in dallas (T21 spotbeam), so I was trying to figure this out? Also will it be MPEG 4 dependent?


When you get your HD Locals, they will be in MPEG4


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## digiblur (Jun 11, 2005)

alebowgm said:


> So basically, JohnH is going to have to setup a satellite pointed at 138.5 on the 25th of this month and do a scan to see what is going on there
> 
> Have fun!!!


No need to setup a dish to 138. Pick up the remote to the FTA box, add e10 at 138, and hit scan. You won't even have to get off the couch


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

i called Dish HD tech support about an issue with my 921 tonight. asked about hd locals at the end, still nothing to them from dish hq. mentioned E10, the tech hadn't a CLUE there was a new sat going up, let alone to 110  doh!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

digiblur said:


> No need to setup a dish to 138. Pick up the remote to the FTA box, add e10 at 138, and hit scan. You won't even have to get off the couch


It's NOT what he ment....

If a person has a movable DISH .. that can go by itself to 138 - then Ya.. - what you said would be "the case"..

However if the person doesn't have a dish at 138.. He would have to set one up .. install one, etc.. at 138 first .. before being able to do what you said


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

alebowgm said:


> So basically, JohnH is going to have to setup a satellite pointed at 138.5 on the 25th of this month and do a scan to see what is going on there
> 
> Have fun!!!


Well, it is time to stick the DBS LNBF on the side of the BUD feedhorn again. 

Latest TLEs(yes there are TLEs for EchoStar 10 now) indicate it is very close to where it is going for the time being.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

TLEs?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Lost acronymn ... but basically tracking/position information.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Two Line Elements

Look like this:

ECHOSTAR 10
1 28935U 06003A 06055.53270256 .00000085 00000-0 00000+0 0 164
2 28935 000.0354 005.1315 0009539 324.0037 237.3935 01.00485277 131

Software decoding yields this prediction of the location of the satellite based on the location and movement at the time the TLEs were taken:

Date/Time inclination azimuth elevation in kilometers
2006 Feb 26 06:28:36 0.0138 N 138.0460 W 35756.541 
2006 Feb 27 06:28:36 0.0123 N 137.2748 W 35755.628 
2006 Feb 28 06:28:36 0.0107 N 136.5031 W 35754.684 

The satellite most likely changed its direction of movement shortly after these TLEs were taken and it may actually be at 138.5 West now.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Reminds me of curling. Toss the stone and then make a few adjustments to get it to stop at the right place. 

Thanks John.


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