# Direct TV pulled a fast one!



## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

I am new here - but have used DTV for 12 years, and Primestar 5 years prior to that.

We have been chugging away with an HR-20 and LNB-5 dish when the hard drive went on the HR20. I called CS and was told that they could send me any model receiver for replacement. I wanted an HR24. They told me that if I upgraded, I would get an HR24.

Boy was I wrong! I got an HR22 today - called up DTV and gave them a piece of my mind. They had no problem putting in a complaint about the rep who "sold" me the upgrade - but wouldn't do anything about it. I didn't even need the upgrade as my HR20 was dead. I am not sure if they replaced the HR20 for free whether they would stick me with another 24 months contract - they lie so much.

So I am out close to $200 and all I got was a replacement HR22, which I would have gotten as a replacement for free. They told me today there was no way I could be sure (for any price) of getting an HR 24. What is wrong with these people?

I have been with them for about 12 years. They get my money via autopay every month - about $1000 a year all these years. Then they pull this stunt. I am tempted to return the HR22 and go to Amazon and buy an HR24! I don't like contracts, however, and it makes me cringe at the thought of being indebted to these people for 24 months longer (not like I want to change) just to keep their HR22 I haven't activated it and really can't bring myself to it. I guess buying an HR24 at Amazon still gets me on their 24 month hook. Gee, it's not like this is an iPhone!

I just don't understand why they expect people to pay good money, get stuck with a contract and still *not* get the latest equipment? I offered to pay full price without a contract and they still (for $500) will not assure me of an HR24!

Any suggestions? I am so mad I cannot think straight about them. It's not the money - it's about being lied to and being treated like trash. Thanks.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Email [email protected] and politely explain your problem and they will help you.

They have helped me several times and they have the Authority to do things that other CSRs do not or can not do because they lack the Authority to do so.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Nobody "pulled" anything :nono2:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

jonquiljo1, thanks for coming here and blowing off steam. It is a perfect place to do it.

I can't say I've ever had a CSR lie to me because that was the policy. I've had many misinformed CSRs who didn't know the rules very well, and some of them lie because they didn't know the answer and didn't want to admit they didn't know the answer, but that is basic human nature and is really hard to train against.

I wish that wasn't the case. I wish the CSR job was a really high paying job that retained people well. I wish it wasn't an entry level job. But it is, and as customers of DirecTV, we have to deal with the fallout, as does DirecTV's management.

What they did was within the rules of DirecTV. It sucks, but that's the rules.

One of the rules is you can return a piece within 72 hours. If it is still within 72 hours, I would do that. 

You say you don't want to be indebted to these folks for another two years. That I don't get. You've been with them 12 years. You have no desire to switch. You play by all the other rules that DirecTV has for their customers. Why is this one so huge? It's a rule that if you add a receiver to your account, which would be the case if you returned your HR20 replacement and got a HR24 from Amazon or elsewhere, that you have a new commitment. If your wife asked you for a new 2 year commitment, would you object to that, too? I'm being facetious here but I simply don't get this objection. You want a HR24. These are the steps you have to go through to get a HR24. It won't change your plans for TV watching over the next 2 years. What's the problem?

If it is later than 72 hours, then you need someone who can break the rules.

Retention might be able to help. You have to keep asking for Retention in the voice prompts, but that will get you there. Retention has DirecTV's most experienced CSRs. Someone might be able to help you there although I don't know. If I was you, I'd go for greatness. Tell them that not only do you want them to take back the HR22, you want them to give you a $200 credit so you can buy a HR24. I bet as a long term, no hassle customer, they'll do that. As you said, if you had better known the rules, you could have gotten your HR20 replaced for just the cost of shipping and no commitment. Making the HR22 go away just gets you back to ground zero. You do have to be careful when you call Retention. You have to bluff that you are willing to leave over this but you don't want them to call your bluff.

If they can't help, the email addy mentioned above is the biggest rule breaker. Go to Ellen.

Good luck. Rant here anytime. Some people do it all the time.


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## ssandhoops (Dec 2, 2007)

So other than replacing your failing HR20, what exactly did they upgrade?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I suspect there was some miscommunication going on here. You need to contact Ellen as richierich noted .. While you should generally receive "whatever you get," you should not have had to pay $199 to get a replacement for your broken unit. Someone should be able to clear this up for you and there may be a shipping charge involved (around $20), but the $199 would get you an additional unit on your account, not a replacement unit.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

They charged you $200 for a replacement is what it sounds like. That's not right. Call back and talk to a supervisor.. Explain what happened. At the very least, you should have the 200 refunded and send you a return box for the defective hr20, and you can always go buy a hr24 from solid signal for the 200 if you are willing to pay that price. 

One thing it could have been is if they where trying to sell you WHDVR service, and the $200 is for the installation of that, and they where replacing the HR that was defective with it... and the rep was new and just plain screwed it up. 

Either way, I know you can get this one fixed, and maybe with a supervisor csr or even a good CSR. But If you can't get that done by the end of the weekend, email ellen's office Sunday night..


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Nobody "pulled" anything :nono2:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


What does that thread have to do with a CSR telling him he will get a HR24?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raott said:


> What does that thread have to do with a CSR telling him he will get a HR24?


The part that says:


> - Because DirecTV needs to be able to recycle all of the returned leased receivers they get back, DirecTV does NOT promise, advertise, or guarantee that you will receive any particular model or submodel of receiver. You are only guaranteed to receive a model from a specific class of receiver. As of this writing,


Unfortunately, many customers don't know this and some dumb CSRs either outright lie or don't know.

The question still remains why the OP was charged for a replacement of a defective receiver.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Carl Spock said:


> What they did was within the rules of DirecTV. It sucks, but that's the rules.
> 
> .......
> 
> You say you don't want to be indebted to these folks for another two years. That I don't get. You've been with them 12 years. You have no desire to switch. You play by all the other rules that DirecTV has for their customers. Why is this one so huge? It's a rule that if you add a receiver to your account, which would be the case if you returned your HR20 replacement and got a HR24 from Amazon or elsewhere, that you have a new commitment. If your wife asked you for a new 2 year commitment, would you object to that, too? I'm being facetious here but I simply don't get this objection. You want a HR24. These are the steps you have to go through to get a HR24. It won't change your plans for TV watching over the next 2 years. What's the problem?


No real rant - just wanted feedback as to it was better to have an HR24 vs. an HR22. I called DTV to rant and they told me that there was no difference. There is always a difference!

"Commitments" of contracts bother me simply in principle. I hate contracts! I don't feel that after a point someone who has been with any company for a very long time should be constantly "renewing their vows" *with money* each time technology progresses. It really is *not* like an iPhone. IPhones cost a lot to make and you are paying for the costs of subsidizing your purchase. I doubt that an HR24 costs nearly as much as an iPhone to make - likely abound $100 to DTV. Bulk produced electronics are cheap - and a HD DVR is certainly no exception. If they want to subsidize the costs, then they need to add it into their rates.

I've had cell phones for about 20 years now - since 1990. It cost more back then, but actually there was better service when you had it and you were treated like a customer. Now, I am constantly bombarded by AT&T because I have 3 phone off contract and they will pull any trick in the world to take more of my money. That does the opposite of make me like them. DTV is no different - and in fact, worse. And all they offer is TV service that is offered by lots of other companies.

I guess I find it "offensive" that DirectTV does not just keep me updated from time to time with new equipment and not use that as financial leverage to keep me on board with them. Good service and programming keeps customers - not costs - at least not in the long run. They can incorporate their subsidies into the fees if they'd like. I'd even pay for a contract free HR24 - but they tell me that even the $500 for a contract-free receiver does not guarantee you an HR24. That is bad business!

You see, I don't care how much they charge every month as long as they treat me as a customer who is not scum. I am lucky and have a fairly good income, so the money is pretty much insignificant. Perhaps too it's because I am older and am tired of seeing companies treat customers like garbage - and certainly will not tolerate myself.

I guess we are in a changing age where people tolerate this treatment as it become more of the norm. We get onto airplanes and are treated like cattle (yes, in First Class all you get is a marginally better seat, but you are still treated like a cow). This happens all in the name of what? Better technology? They couldn't care less about that beyond a point. We are all getting used to declining treatment by all those we pay our hard-earned money to. We treat this behavior as normal - when it is really kind of obscene.

You gave me the metaphor of a commitment to my wife. Well, if she wanted me to financially commit $500K to her clothes shopping every two years as a condition of being married - then we shouldn't be married. We stay together because it works for us. It really needs to be that simple. After a while you have respect from your business relationships (or marriages - they are similar) or you don't. If Comcast is knocking at everyone's door, then the *last* thing DTV wants to do is alienate your regular customers. DTV knows I am going to stick around and not run off and steal their receiver.

Quite simply - my old one broke and it was in need of replacement. I pay a lot of money each year for service. Why try and rip me off - then censure the person who did it but tell me that there is no amount of money in the world that will ensure I can get what is current technology in 2011. Sorry, but 2008 (HR22) is not acceptable - not after all these years. It would possibly be acceptable if it did not come with strings attached (i.e. - a contract), but DTV cannot have their cake and eat it too. They are just lucky with me in that I am too busy and not interested enough to change providers and sign up with Comcast. Basically their rules treat people like trash, and that is a terrible way to do business in these times.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

sigma1914 said:


> The question still remains why the OP was charged for a replacement of a defective receiver.


I was ripped off - they admit it. They do not apologize at all!
I still have the HR22 in a box in a hall and every time I walk by it I think I should install it - but I also get sick as it represents how poorly I have been treated.

I am not the victim type - please understand, I do not feel sorry about what they have done here to me. But I do have pride.

*Now is an HR24 significantly better than an HR22*? I am going to get a receiver from someone - but I don't want to keep replacing it.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> *Now is an HR24 significantly better than an HR22*? I am going to get a receiver from someone - but I don't want to keep replacing it.


They both have the same size hard drive. The HR24 is faster and has a newer processor. It that is worth your money to get a faster unit with a newer processor, there are people on this forum that sell OWNED HR24's (one just recently sold) for reasonable prices. Just post a WantToBuy ad in the buy/sell forum. Verify the RID on the unit you want to buy with the DirecTv access card dept to make sure it is clear of any outstanding charges, and buy it. No commitment extension.

As for your defective HR20, I suggest if it does not work, you get the retention department to #1, send you a recovery kit for your HR20, and #2, authorize the HR22 as a swap for the defective HR20, which will not extend your commitment. If they have already billed you $199 for it, then retention can credit that $199 back (minus the standard defective recevier swap postage). Then, if you do not like the HR22, you are free to buy an HR24 and return the HR22, all without extending your contract.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jonquiljo1 said:


> I was ripped off - they admit it. They do not apologize at all!
> I still have the HR22 in a box in a hall and every time I walk by it I think I should install it - but I also get sick as it represents how poorly I have been treated.
> 
> I am not the victim type - please understand, I do not feel sorry about what they have done here to me. But I do have pride.
> ...


If you activate that HR 22 there will be an agreement. I would call and cancel that order to ship that receiver back. If you need a replacement get one through the technical department like you should have so there's not an agreement.

The 24 is faster than the 22. They have the same storage space and a different look to the box. Significantly is subjective so who you'll get some who will say the 24 is slightly faster and those that make it sound like it's in a new world.

However if you get a 24 from someone later on if you need to get it replaced you may not get a 24 again.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> I was ripped off - they admit it. They do not apologize at all!
> I still have the HR22 in a box in a hall and every time I walk by it I think I should install it - but I also get sick as it represents how poorly I have been treated.
> 
> I am not the victim type - please understand, I do not feel sorry about what they have done here to me. But I do have pride.
> ...


Did you do this:


richierich said:


> Email [email protected] and politely explain your problem and they will help you.
> 
> They have helped me several times and they have the Authority to do things that other CSRs do not or can not do because they lack the Authority to do so.


They will/should fix it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> "Commitments" of contracts bother me simply in principle. I hate contracts! I don't feel that after a point someone who has been with any company for a very long time should be constantly "renewing their vows" *with money* each time technology progresses. It really is *not* like an iPhone. IPhones cost a lot to make and you are paying for the costs of subsidizing your purchase. I doubt that an HR24 costs nearly as much as an iPhone to make - likely abound $100 to DTV. Bulk produced electronics are cheap - and a HD DVR is certainly no exception. If they want to subsidize the costs, then they need to add it into their rates.


It's been a while, but the last number we heard was around $400/unit .. Not sure why you're pulling the $100 out of thin air, the HDD alone is $50(ish) and there are licensing fees associated with other portions in addition to manufacturing, shipping and component costs. Heck, I believe the shipping costs to get it to your home (the final destination) could be as high as $25-30 and this doesn't even account for getting it shipped from the manufacturer to DIRECTV. The iPhone and the DVR costs are probably not that far apart in real manufacturing/delivery dollars.


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

jonquiljo1 said:


> No real rant - just wanted feedback as to it was better to have an HR24 vs. an HR22. I called DTV to rant and they told me that there was no difference. There is always a difference!
> 
> "Commitments" of contracts bother me simply in principle. I hate contracts! I don't feel that after a point someone who has been with any company for a very long time should be constantly "renewing their vows" *with money* each time technology progresses. It really is *not* like an iPhone. IPhones cost a lot to make and you are paying for the costs of subsidizing your purchase. I doubt that an HR24 costs nearly as much as an iPhone to make - likely abound $100 to DTV. Bulk produced electronics are cheap - and a HD DVR is certainly no exception. If they want to subsidize the costs, then they need to add it into their rates.
> 
> ...


Let me address this as a "CSR". Please understand that my view points and comments are not that of DirecTV. I just want to put things into perspective a bit. I am a dedicated D** employee. I love my job and I am thrilled each time I make someone happy as a customer. Almost everyone I work with is the same way and we are all ON SHORE for technical support.

I'm not sure what was discussed during your call but if you mentioned an upgrade over replacing the HR20 I can promise you the CSR would much rather do that then send you a replacement unit since it won't count against his / her stats on replacement units / service calls. However they should have never guaranteed you a specific model. I can promise you your complaint about the CSR will be taken seriously and the agent will feel it.

As far as the cost of receivers you have to consider that D** added over 650,000 customers in the 4th quarter of 2010 alone. Not to mention the number of receivers that are sent back due to technical issues. It's not possible to throw HR24s out there brand new. D** pays RCA, Samsung, SONY, etc to manufacturer them and I can promise those companies charge D** more than the $100 you mentioned.

I'm sure in whatever job you do there are also a few people that don't do what they are supposed to do and it causes you grief as well or gives your profession / company a bad name in the eyes of a few customers. I'm positive that over 90% of D**s 19 + million subscribers are perfectly happy and would love to have your HR22.

As far as the equipment, the HR22 is a bit slower than the HR24 but has the same size drive. You will need an external DECA to make it work with MRV but that's it. Speed can be remedied with future software / UI later on.

In my opinion you should send back the HR22, get refunded the money, and if you want a HR24 go to some place like Solid Signal. Either that or have them replace the HR20 for 19.95 shipping or Protection Plan and get the luck of the drawl.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Nobody "pulled" anything :nono2:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


not so, He was mislead
intentionally or unintentionally, it doesn't matter, he was still misinformed
The customer is not wrong here or ever from a professional Customer Service [point of view


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Nobody "pulled" anything :nono2:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


When the op had to pay $200 for a dvr that should have been sent for no more than shipping, he certainly wasn't treated correctly. Call it what you will, he had $200 taken from him for no reason. OP, make sure to follow the advice of those saying to send an email to [email protected]


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> When the op had to pay $200 for a dvr that should have been sent for no more than shipping, he certainly wasn't treated correctly. Call it what you will, he had $200 taken from him for no reason. OP, make sure to follow the advice of those saying to send an email to [email protected]


I will say that it's hard to judge any treatment from afar. It's clear that there was a misunderstanding between the CSR and the customer. It is reasonable for DIRECTV to correct the problem and doubtful that it will be a problem to get it corrected.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Looks to me like an "upgrade" was ordered for drop shipment, where the OP gets charged $199 instead of a ERP (equipment replacement) being ordered for $19.95/$0. It all depends on how the conversation went down.

The key here is upgrade vs replacement. In post 1, upgrade was brought up.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

rrdirectsr said:


> As far as the cost of receivers you have to consider that D** added over 650,000 customers in the 4th quarter of 2010 alone. Not to mention the number of receivers that are sent back due to technical issues. It's not possible to throw HR24s out there brand new. D** pays RCA, Samsung, SONY, etc to manufacturer them and I can promise those companies charge D** more than the $100 you mentioned.


Well, you can defend DTV as much as you want, but their attitude is clear. Yes, for now they have added perhaps 650,000 customers in Q4 2010. That is partly the problem. Dish network sales are likely taking, and Fios (Verizon) is proving to be way to expensive for Verizon to implement. So you have 650,000 new customers in last quarter alone that need boxes and DTV takes the "old" customers for granted.

And I totally disagree, it is totally possible to throw HR24's out there brand new - for $199 or 499 (if they must). Apple does it, all the phone companies do it. Subsidies buy you contracts but you own the phone, not rent it. What has Apple produced - how many million iPhones? And they would produce more if people could afford them.

I have worked for years in IT management positions in Silicon Valley companies - and we got to buy computers "en masse" for pennies on the dollar. When Macs listed for $4000, we got them for $1000. I once worked for a hard drive manufacturing company (since swallowed up) again as IT manager. We had an internal price of our own drives as about $50, which in the early 90's was about 1/6 of the retail price. If DTV is buying these by the millions, then they are likely getting them dirt cheap.

It's even more likely that they go to new subscribers - ones that more often than not default on their contracts and walk away with the unit. Again, every smartphone company out there is selling their phones by the millions discounting them to 1/3rd their price and recouping that loss by their rates and contracts. Why is DirectTv any different? This is pretty ancient technology!

DTV may have 19 million subscribers now, but if you stick around long enough - you will see them bite the dust just as easily as they grew. History has shown that in many arenas. IBM was the king for a while with PC's - until the generics took over. Now they are gone. Bell Telephone was also king, until the government broke them up and competition ate the remainder to bits. It takes one competitive innovation and they are history. Netflix and now Amazon are killing all the subscription TV and movie companies. And yes, DTV is about to get into that business too - but they have a lot of good competition. I'd put my money on Amazon - as they rarely fail. I certainly would not bet on DTV streaming. No one has done it better than Netflix, and no one with better quality than Amazon. I bet Comcast is next, not DTV - as Comcast has the infrastructure to do it and keep it there.

My point is that DTV obviously doesn't care much about existing customers. It seems to be full of managers that want to increase the sales numbers - and are totally clueless as to where this might lead them. If you lose your loyal customers, you are soon to be history. Over the years this has proven true over and over again.

Now I am returning the HR22 and asked for a "replacement". I will keep on sending back the "replacement" until I get an HR22 or better. This way I am not stuck (even after 11 years) with a DTV contract. If Comcast comes along with something easy - you can be sure I will likely change if it is better than this. *This is why loyalty is important*. A week ago, I turned these offers away. I won't be so fast to do so anymore. And millions of new customers are not anywhere near the value to DTV than a million "old" customers. Too bad they miss that point. We are so used to being treated badly that we get used to it. Well, that can't go on forever.


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

We are Americans. Were use to being treated badly.


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## jsquash (Apr 10, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> They both have the same size hard drive. The HR24 is faster and has a newer processor. It that is worth your money to get a faster unit with a newer processor, there are people on this forum that sell OWNED HR24's (one just recently sold) for reasonable prices. Just post a WantToBuy ad in the buy/sell forum. Verify the RID on the unit you want to buy with the DirecTv access card dept to make sure it is clear of any outstanding charges, and buy it. No commitment extension.
> 
> As for your defective HR20, I suggest if it does not work, you get the retention department to #1, send you a recovery kit for your HR20, and #2, authorize the HR22 as a swap for the defective HR20, which will not extend your commitment. If they have already billed you $199 for it, then retention can credit that $199 back (minus the standard defective recevier swap postage). Then, if you do not like the HR22, you are free to buy an HR24 and return the HR22, all without extending your contract.


Is it true that buying a used HR2* will not extend your contract? I had looked at buying a couple off of ebay and called to check if they were "clean" and able to put them on my account. The CSR told me it would extend my contract if I activated a reciever that I bought from someone else, even if it was previously owned and not leased.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

jsquash said:


> Is it true that buying a used HR2* will not extend your contract? I had looked at buying a couple off of ebay and called to check if they were "clean" and able to put them on my account. The CSR told me it would extend my contract if I activated a reciever that I bought from someone else, even if it was previously owned and not leased.


Another lie from a clueless CSR. When dealing with owned units, NEVER deal with a CSR. Demand to speak to the Access Card department, and hang up/call back if the CSR refuses to transfer you there.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Now I am returning the HR22 and asked for a "replacement". I will keep on sending back the "replacement" until I get an HR22 or better. This way I am not stuck (even after 11 years) with a DTV contract. If Comcast comes along with something easy - you can be sure I will likely change if it is better than this. *This is why loyalty is important*. A week ago, I turned these offers away. I won't be so fast to do so anymore. And millions of new customers are not anywhere near the value to DTV than a million "old" customers. Too bad they miss that point. We are so used to being treated badly that we get used to it. Well, that can't go on forever.


Do what you want .. but to claim "loyal" when you're more than happy to (attempt to) stick DIRECTV with multiple delivery charges so that you can leave whenever you feel like it .. just doesn't seem to equate to "loyal." Sure, you've been a customer for a long time (so have I), but it sounds like you'd have had no problem leaving today if something better was out there. Just sayin ...


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Stupid question...you already have an HR22 you claim is the only target box, or better. Why send it back and have them send you another? Will they not authorize you to use that HR22 in your possession as "the replacement"? If so, it is DirecTv wasting money. You seriously need to talk to retention and explain what happened, and get them to let you use the box you have as the replacement.


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

jsquash said:


> Is it true that buying a used HR2* will not extend your contract? I had looked at buying a couple off of ebay and called to check if they were "clean" and able to put them on my account. The CSR told me it would extend my contract if I activated a reciever that I bought from someone else, even if it was previously owned and not leased.


This is not true. If it is "OWNED" then no contract. If you pay an upgrade fee for "LEASED" than yes it will give you an extension of 1 or 2 years depending on advanced vs standard.

Key note: When you activate your "owned" receiver. Make sure you ask them if it is labeled as "leased" or "owned" if they say "leased" ask for the access card team.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

gomezma1 said:


> We are Americans. Were use to being treated badly.


Yup, ain't that the truth!


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> Do what you want .. but to claim "loyal" when you're more than happy to (attempt to) stick DIRECTV with multiple delivery charges so that you can leave whenever you feel like it .. just doesn't seem to equate to "loyal." Sure, you've been a customer for a long time (so have I), but it sounds like you'd have had no problem leaving today if something better was out there. Just sayin ...


No, I'm annoyed and fed up. I didn't think a minute about alternatives to DTV until a few days ago. I didn't even think about DTV! I am stuck with a fee to send the HR22 to me, and the cost of sending it back to them. They will not fix this. And they certainly could not just switch the HR22 they sent me to a replacement box - I had to send it back and get a new one - all at my expense.

But again, it's not about the money - it's about being treated like trash. Why is their attitude so bad as to want to get every single dime out of you regardless of whether you are properly informed or not?

It also seems really odd to me that a company of the size of DTV can't sell their latest DVR for any price. It has got to be this game of used (refurbished) Russian-roulette. You can buy and keep a new (and latest) iPhone, Droid, Blackberry, etc. - all with likely a higher cost than a new HR-24. Why do we tolerate all of this and contracts as excessive as $480 per unit for used, old equipment?

Frankly what we are doing is subsidizing all the costs of their bringing new customers into the fold - and we eat the costs of the ones that dump things back onto the company. Why do the established customers get the full price/overprice treatment and the new customers get all the deals? We then get their returns when we want to upgrade.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

You still haven't said if you emailed Ellen or not. I highly doubt they'd refuse to help.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

jonquiljo1 said:


> No, I'm annoyed and fed up.


Obviously.

Forget about me. I'm a nobody. But so far you've ignored the advice of a DirecTV CSR and easily the most knowledgeable moderator on this board. If all else fails, email Ellen. Are you planning to do that?

Or do you just want to remain annoyed and fed up?

EDIT: My mistake. It wasn't rrdirectsr but richierich who was the other one who recommended emailing Ellen. And sigma 1914, of course.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Carl Spock said:


> Or do you just want to remain annoyed and fed up?


Actually, I've pretty much followed your advice. I have set up to return the HR22. Frankly, I don't want to go with Amazon or anyone and get into a contract again. I want to leave my options open.

Comcast will be putting a business HSI line in here - hopefully soon - totally unrelated to any of this. If I so desire, I will have them add TV service. I'll already have a contract with them for HSI, so adding TV is not a major issue. I'm just not feeling great about DTV right now. With a 22/5 HSI line I can stream anything I want and Business service does not have a cap.

We only watch an average of 1 hr a day - sometimes not at all. So there is no reason to jump into all this with DTV. Sorry, I feel burned and am going to just make it work again. If my wife would let me, I would just add an eSATA external drive to the HD20 and be done with it. But she doesn't want any more electronics in the bedroom, so I'll just get a replacement. I guess you know who is in charge around here.

But I'm not activating the HR22 that they sent. I'm sending it back via FedEx (on my account) on Monday. They wouldn't pay to return it. So I paid to ship it to me and now to return it. Nice people considering they admitted it was their mess-up. I'm tired of talking on the phone to them. Thanks everyone!


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Actually, I've pretty much followed your advice. I have set up to return the HR22. Frankly, I don't want to go with Amazon or anyone and get into a contract again. I want to leave my options open.
> 
> Comcast will be putting a business HSI line in here - hopefully soon - totally unrelated to any of this. If I so desire, I will have them add TV service. I'll already have a contract with them for HSI, so adding TV is not a major issue. I'm just not feeling great about DTV right now. With a 22/5 HSI line I can stream anything I want and Business service does not have a cap.
> 
> ...


If you go through the email provided, you would likely not have to pay return shipping, if that matters to you.


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## bixler (Oct 14, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> You still haven't said if you emailed Ellen or not. I highly doubt they'd refuse to help.


Really seems like the OP is ignoring this and would rather moan and groan and put himself through even more by avoiding the easy fix. Seems like he came here looking for help and then ignored said help that was provided.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

bixler said:


> Really seems like the OP is ignoring this and would rather moan and groan and put himself through even more by avoiding the easy fix. Seems like he came here looking for help and then ignored said help that was provided.


I seem to agree. DIRECTV does fudge up & Ellen's office gets stuff done.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Take your pick. A: The OP doesn't like the recommendations from respondents. B: The OP has yet to contact Ellen. C: The OP prefers moaning and groaning and all the grief. D: All of the above.


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## drguava (Mar 28, 2003)

I have been a Directv customer since 1996, I've three receivers HR24 and two HR20's with MRV. One HR 20 died I called DTV asked for replacement requested HR24 I was told they could not guaranteed, I told them if not HR24 would be returning to DTV and cancelling that receiver. I received HR22 called DTV ask for customer retention told them I was cancelling this receiver connection plus my sports package and explained why. Customer Retention gave me an instant $200 credit to my account so I can purchase HR24 myself. I purchased HR24 for $197 including shipping. In my experience the HR24 is faster than HR20 especially when changing channels.

Be persistent with Customer Retention and good luck!!


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

gomezma1 said:


> We are Americans. Were use to being treated badly.





jonquiljo1 said:


> Yup, ain't that the truth!


This is so far from the truth, it's mind boggling. But that is the "woe is me attitude" coming from people who have never lived outside this country. I am sure that are a few billion people that would change places with you just to able to have the discussion about HR22 vs. HR24 be a top priority in their lives.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

drguava said:


> I have been a Directv customer since 1996, I've three receivers HR24 and two HR20's with MRV. One HR 20 died I called DTV asked for replacement requested HR24 I was told they could not guaranteed, I told them if not HR24 would be returning to DTV and cancelling that receiver. I received HR22 called DTV ask for customer retention told them I was cancelling this receiver connection plus my sports package and explained why. Customer Retention gave me an instant $200 credit to my account so I can purchase HR24 myself. I purchased HR24 for $197 including shipping. In my experience the HR24 is faster than HR20 especially when changing channels.
> 
> Be persistent with Customer Retention and good luck!!


Thanks for all the good comment - you all have actually *helped *me with my decision. I'm going to send back the HR22 (already re-packed) and send it back and take a replacement for free. I don't want to spend hours on the phone with them to retrieve $40. My weeks are long and talking to CSR's on the phone is really not worth it. Call me spoiled!

If it were just me living in this house - I would have no problem bluffing retention into getting them to make it right. My wife has a say, and she says that it's a waste of time to pursue it further.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

cariera said:


> This is so far from the truth, it's mind boggling. But that is the "woe is me attitude" coming from people who have never lived outside this country. I am sure that are a few billion people that would change places with you just to able to have the discussion about HR22 vs. HR24 be a top priority in their lives.


Now that's a bit out of line here. I am not feeling sorry for myself at all. As I said, I am extremely fortunate in that any financial transactions like this have no real effect on my wallet.

What I have been trying to express - and obviously failing to do so - is the fact (and it is a fact) that customer service in this country has degenerated in many areas to the point where you are "done a favor" to hand over hard-earned money for many services. As far as I've seen, DTV is about the worst one on the block.

I may be getting old and a bit jaded, but I am keenly aware that there are many people in this world who get treated a whole lot worse for their basic subsistence. But that is not the issue here - and I am not into talking politics (certainly right now). Boy, I remember when cable started to come out - you were treated like a valued customer when you signed up! When satellite came out, customer service was even better. Only around the end of the 90's did it become such big business that these companies started treating everyone like refuse in a compost heap.

*How many people here are "under contract" to possibly 2, 3, 4, 5 or more companies for "services" - just because the device they use (a phone, Satellite box, cable box, DSL modem) is given as a freebie? * All these services are now a game to get new customers and take the old ones for granted - so people switch back and forth and find better deals all the time - some stop paying and walk. The result is that we all get soaked paying contract fees and subsidizing all the cheap "starter deals". We have 3 cell phones in my house - and when they went off contract, AT&T started writing letters every week to give me a new "free phone" trying to get me to unknowingly extend a new contract. I have gotten these letters multiple times a week for years now. You'd think they'd know when to stop. I pity the poor souls who don't read the fine print and get their "free phone" and end up with hundreds of dollars in commitments they do not want. DTV keeps calling me with telemarketing calls. I assume they are to offer the latest deal - but not tell me I will be stuck with all these contracts if I take them up on it. I *never* answer the calls.

DTV takes all this to a new low. Not only do most people never own what they pay so much for (and trust me, you pay for it!), but they are not even guaranteed to get a new piece of equipment for any price. DTV even wants my 5 year old HR20 back - it's no good to anyone and I paid over $200 to "lease" it originally. Now they won't reissue it as they told me they no longer issue HR20's. Yes, they pay the freight, but it's wasteful. What do they want it for? It's an intricate way of telling the customer that we are about as disposable to them as that receiver box. And no, they don't send them to unfortunate people all over the world! If they reformat and reuse the hard drives, then that is a waste too given that they are generations outdated.

So I am not whining. I am trying to ask why we put up with this nonsense? I put up with it because I just don't care enough to fight them. But if there were two parallel options and it was day 1, I would go for the least of the game-players. Yes, there are lots of people in the world so unfortunate that they would trade places with us in a minute. This is all the more reason not to let these companies treat us as if we were cattle. We're not. You can easily go to Wikipedia and see how *they have a BBB "F" rating, class action suits and court injunctions in California, action and complaints by the Washington (state) attorney general's office*. It goes on and on - and this is likely just the short of it.

Even with all this, their customer base grows. That says something about all of us, myself included. All these new "toys" in life come with a price, and that price is not monetary.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jonquiljo1" said:


> Thanks for all the good comment - you all have actually helped me with my decision. I'm going to send back the HR22 (already re-packed) and send it back and take a replacement for free. I don't want to spend hours on the phone with them to retrieve $40. My weeks are long and talking to CSR's on the phone is really not worth it. Call me spoiled!
> 
> If it were just me living in this house - I would have no problem bluffing retention into getting them to make it right. My wife has a say, and she says that it's a waste of time to pursue it further.


Sending an email to Ellen is not bluffing anyone. It's doing something easy to het things done right, after all the mes that was created by them in the first place. You should email her.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Okay. First the 200 bucks you paid is the lease for the duration. If you bought that dvr it would have cost a helluva lot more than 200 bucks. 

Second. New customers get better deals everywhere but most contract models do have a cheaper re-up for existing customers. Directv does as well. 

Third. Your supposedly old hr20 is still useable so they want it back. 

Fourth. Have you actually looked at WHY the joke taht is the BBB gave them an F? It is because they won't pay the BBB. The same company gets the best grades in its business area from rating services. 

Fifth. It takes very little to get a class action suit. They are meaningless when judging a company and its services. One of them a few years ago was because they didn't sell Sunday ticket by the week!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> What I have been trying to express - and obviously failing to do so - is the fact (and it is a fact) that customer service in this country has degenerated in many areas to the point where you are "done a favor" to hand over hard-earned money for many services. As far as I've seen, DTV is about the worst one on the block.


Ah, so your real reason for posting is that you want to say that DIRECTV's customer service sucks .. Seems to me that you did experience a problem that shouldn't of happened. That being said, us DBSTalk'rs have been trying our best to point you in the right direction to getting the problem corrected (as it should be). Have you sent a note to Ellen? That's probably the best course of action at this point .. Takes a few minutes writing up an E-mail and waiting for them to call you (usually within 24 hours, but sometimes up to 72 hours). Heck, they'd probably even let you keep the box you have as a replacement for the failed box (that they will want back). We're just trying to help you get through the problem .. Not suggest that there wasn't a problem.



> DTV takes all this to a new low. Not only do most people never own what they pay so much for (and trust me, you pay for it!), but they are not even guaranteed to get a new piece of equipment for any price. DTV even wants my 5 year old HR20 back - it's no good to anyone and I paid over $200 to "lease" it originally. Now they won't reissue it as they told me they no longer issue HR20's. Yes, they pay the freight, but it's wasteful. What do they want it for? It's an intricate way of telling the customer that we are about as disposable to them as that receiver box. And no, they don't send them to unfortunate people all over the world! If they reformat and reuse the hard drives, then that is a waste too given that they are generations outdated.


What would owning it do for you? The original HR10-250s were $999 to buy .. Maybe it would be @ $700(?) now .. vs. the $199 that you pay. Some people get that $199 reduced to zero if there are other deals available. If you "own" the receiver, do you sell it when you're done or simply send it off to the recycle pile? HR20s have the built in OTA tuner and many folks who have HR20s want this built in. DIRECTV makes an effort to replace HR20s with HR20s for this reason (not guaranteed .. but there is an effort there than generally works). So you sending your HR20 back (which belongs to DIRECTV) will make it possible for anyone else with a broken HR20 to get an HR20 as a replacement. So .. Yes .. They very well may reissue the HR20 despite what they told you.



> So I am not whining. I am trying to ask why we put up with this nonsense? I put up with it because I just don't care enough to fight them. But if there were two parallel options and it was day 1, I would go for the least of the game-players. Yes, there are lots of people in the world so unfortunate that they would trade places with us in a minute. This is all the more reason not to let these companies treat us as if we were cattle. We're not. You can easily go to Wikipedia and see how *they have a BBB "F" rating, class action suits and court injunctions in California, action and complaints by the Washington (state) attorney general's office*. It goes on and on - and this is likely just the short of it.


We've gone over the the Better Business Bureau "F" rating many many times here. While DIRECTV may not deserve an "A" the general consensus is that the "F" is 100% the result of the BBB's policy of requiring companies to pay to be members of the BBB in order to receive a favorable rating. The BBB is a sham and regardless of what they rate, it cannot be considered trustworthy .. Those that pay get good ratings .. Those that don't get bad ratings. So, the short of that is that DIRECTV's BBB "F" rating gives zero information about the company DIRECTV is.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> What would owning it do for you? The original HR10-250s were $999 to buy .. Maybe it would be @ $700(?) now .. vs. the $199 that you pay. Some people get that $199 reduced to zero if there are other deals available. If you "own" the receiver, do you sell it when you're done or simply send it off to the recycle pile?


The price is set by those who "sell" it. An HR-anything is not cutting edge electronics. All I'm saying is that all electronics are cheap and last years version of anything isn't worth very much. Apple can barely give away the 3GS iPhones since the iPhone 4 came out. Generally when you have an old piece of electronics you donate to a recycling center - and let them give it to whoever needs it.

Cutting these "deals" is exactly what everyone subsidizes. My point for all of this is why do we put up with all of this? I don't care anymore - whatever I can get to work is fine. No more contracts. When did life get so complex that we had to sign a contract to get service to record a football game? Defending companies like DTV is not the way to make them behave in a more civil fashion. I think when we let them take advantage of us with all these "rules", etc. is when they realize they can get away with anything.

But I give up - it seems as if you just want to make me into a whiner because I don't care enough to e-mail this person. The last time I watched anything on TV was about a week ago - and it was downloaded (purchased), though Netflix is getting really good.


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## mtyler18 (May 1, 2011)

Just to clarify a few things...I had this happen in my home a few months back. DTV _does_ offer replacement receivers for just the shipping and handling of about $20. With a replacement there is a high chance you will get the same receiver. You state here that you wanted an HR24. With a replacement, there isn't that high of a chance of getting a new receiver but with an upgrade you would be getting the newer model. Most of the HR21 models and above have the same recording capacity. The only difference is the processor. So, YES one option could have been to replace the existing and PROBABLY get an HR-20, OR you could UPGRADE and get a NEWER model receiver. This all depends on the agent. There is no way that a DTV agent can guarantee any certain MODEL but, if you are looking for a certain model Best Buy's may have a few in stock as well as solidsignal.com and Ebay. If return the HR-22 and call to cancel the order you would receive a full refund.

Hope this helps!



jonquiljo1 said:


> I am new here - but have used DTV for 12 years, and Primestar 5 years prior to that.
> 
> We have been chugging away with an HR-20 and LNB-5 dish when the hard drive went on the HR20. I called CS and was told that they could send me any model receiver for replacement. I wanted an HR24. They told me that if I upgraded, I would get an HR24.
> 
> ...


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

mtyler18 said:


> So, YES one option could have been to replace the existing and PROBABLY get an HR-20, OR you could UPGRADE and get a NEWER model receiver.


Thanks for the info! If they send another HR20, which the CSR's I spoke to even made jokes about and told me repeatedly that they do not even stock them anymore - then they are lying yet again. In that case, I will install the HR-20 for now, because Comcast is installing high speed Internet service here in the next week and I can have them activate TV and DVR capability too. When I ordered Comcast HSI, I was looking for a high speed business Internet line and was perfectly happy with DTV.

But if they repetitively lie to me, I will have to replace them as soon as is possible. I will not allow them to treat me like scum. But thanks for the info, and I appreciate the help.

Now everyone who has made fun of my comments - do you really think I have so little self-respect as to allow myself to be treated that way? Call me spoiled because I usually have gotten what I want - but certainly not for free or out of entitlement, but because I fairly paid my way. Now Comcast is likely no better, but it would perhaps be time to pay another company $1000 a year to be treat me poorly.

My business means nothing to DTV - I know that. My self respect as a consumer means everything to me. I know that too.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

I like my 3 HR20s.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

jonquiljo1 said:


> The price is set by those who "sell" it. An HR-anything is not cutting edge electronics. All I'm saying is that all electronics are cheap and last years version of anything isn't worth very much. Apple can barely give away the 3GS iPhones since the iPhone 4 came out. Generally when you have an old piece of electronics you donate to a recycling center - and let them give it to whoever needs it.
> 
> Cutting these "deals" is exactly what everyone subsidizes. My point for all of this is why do we put up with all of this? I don't care anymore - whatever I can get to work is fine. No more contracts. When did life get so complex that we had to sign a contract to get service to record a football game? Defending companies like DTV is not the way to make them behave in a more civil fashion. I think when we let them take advantage of us with all these "rules", etc. is when they realize they can get away with anything.
> 
> But I give up - it seems as if you just want to make me into a whiner because I don't care enough to e-mail this person. The last time I watched anything on TV was about a week ago - and it was downloaded (purchased), though Netflix is getting really good.


If you read my post #36 I think even you will pick D: All of the above.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Keep in mind there is a difference between lying and being misinformed. The former requires intent, the latter does not. I believe we are seeing the latter taking place here.


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## MKAM (May 15, 2007)

I have to say emailing Ellen is a great idea for you. I emailed last Friday and I have to say the service I got from the customer advocacy group was outstanding. I emailed Friday morning and they called me at about 11 am on Friday and left a message for me. When I called back, I was able to speak to the person who left the message for me and they went above and beyond to take care of my concerns. Even had another call from Directv yesterday going even further to take care of my situation.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Nobody "pulled" anything :nono2:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=192112


Because customers shouldn't believe what they are told by companies but instead should do Internet searches in order to disprove the promises they were given by employees? It isn't the employee's fault for telling customers the info? It is the customer's for not being smarter/more knowledgeable about the corporation's business practices than the company's employees? At least that seems to be the general consensous here.

In my case, I recently needed an HD DVR replacement and wanted to assure it was the latest model, so I purchased one directly from Solid Signal, having read here about broken promises/receiving old units. But, BEFORE I DID, I was assured by two different DirecTV reps that if I, "requested" a specific unit AND let DirecTV install it, it would be a brand new, current model unit. They all tried to dissuade me from my Solid Signal purchase. Even when I pointed out, specifically, how many times I had heard it is simply luck of the draw I was told/reassured the same thing. If I hadn't known better from reading here, I too likely would have been very upset with the outcome and felt deceived.

As it is, even though I have it in writing (via DirecTV email) that my contract would not be extended due to purchasing my own unit, it was. Which people here now say was once again "bad information" from DirecTV, so they can't be expected to abide by what they put in writing, because, apparently, what that rep told me, without my knowledge, was wrong.

Obviously, as a company, DirecTV is not unique in that their employees sometimes give bad info, but it certainly seems to happen A LOT, and the way they handle it is less than customer-friendly. It should NOT be such a huge hassle FOR THE CUSTOMER to simply get what they were promised BY THE COMPANY. This isn't about a customer making demands ... It's a customer wanting simply what they were told they would receive. And I shouldn't have to fight--going through ever escalating calls and emails--to get what I can prove I was told I would receive. No customer, of any business, should. And having to do so can make a formerly happy and loyal customer into a ticked off, ready to bolt one pretty darn quickly.

Frankly, whether it's "official policy" or not, if you are assured, repeatedly, by a company employee that scenario A is what will occur, the company, to my mind, is obligated to make sure it does. If they then need to "reeducate" or reprimand the employee who made the "bad deal" for DirecTV, they can do so. That is an internal company problem, and shouldn't be the customer's concern. And that's not a sense of "entitlement," just plain ole' fairness. EDITED TO ADD: And if scenario A is completely unfeasible due to expense or whatever, AT THE VERY LEAST a company should allow the customer, who was misinformed by THEIR error, to return to the status quo, by allowing them to leave without penalty, voiding the transaction, returning equipment at no cost, or whatever it takes to undo the botched transaction.

By the way, the end result of my current problem, after an email to the much vaunted Ellen, and another 40 min. on the phone, is that I will get (so they say; haven't seen it yet, but just happened about 10 days ago) a $120 credit over 6 months ($20/month), but I am STILL under a new two-year contract, even though they acknowledge I was told differently via email and that I paid $199 for my added HR24 and am a 12-year-customer that pays them $150/month. I argued my case very politely, and was treated very politely in return, but they would not budge on any matter ... Including waiving my ETF and letting me cancel right then and return all equipment.

Oh and, by the way, there is no way in [email protected]!! that DirecTV's costs on even brand new HD DVR units are greater than $199. No. Freaking. Way. Feel free to argue all you want, but just as the original poster in this thread said: It's about DirecTV's overall profit, not the actual equipment cost. They charge the fee because people pay it, not because they "have" to. (Clearly, since they give so many away to those that complain, or sign up new.)


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## Serra (Jan 8, 2011)

Wow, I asked for a specific model and got it, I must have been lucky!


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

RobertE said:


> Keep in mind there is a difference between lying and being misinformed. The former requires intent, the latter does not. I believe we are seeing the latter taking place here.


Right! The CSR's are told lies by DTV (their employer), but the CSR's don't know the truth - so they are not lying, they are misinforming people.

I can buy that. Most CSR's mean well and try to help. Corporate policies and procedures are not always so benevolent.

Frankly, though, whether I am lied to or "misinformed" by someone who doesn't know the truth - the result is the same.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

susanandmark said:


> Feel free to argue all you want, but just as the original poster in this thread said: It's about DirecTV's overall profit, not the actual equipment cost. They charge the fee because people pay it, not because they "have" to. (Clearly, since they give so many away to those that complain, or sign up new.)


Far more eloquent than I could have said!! I am surprised that we don't have more people chime in on the side of the "lied to". Perhaps it is because most people here are OK with the deceptions (more politically correct than "lie"), and have the knowledge and experience to get around them.

Most of us mortals don't have that knowledge and are simply trying to watch TV and are not interested in trying to understand the unique inner workings of DTV and why they do what they do to people and how to avoid it. We simply got taken advantage of and "misled". It seems that every DTV CSR I have ever spoken to lately has told me "misleading" comments. That's not cool in any book.

It's not any different than the banks and their deceptive credit practices - it's just on a smaller scale. That doesn't make it right.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

The way the DirecTV business model works, all of their receivers and DVRs are leased, no matter where you get them from. 

I recently wanted to add another HR24 DVR to my Whole Home DVR Network. DirecTV couldn't guarantee me an HR24, nor could they guarantee me a DECA adapter with an older model DVR, so I went to Solid Signal and purchased an HR24-500 DVR for $199. It was delivered two days later, and fully activated within ten minutes of it being delivered.

There's much to like about DirecTV, but their equipment replacement/upgrade model feels like it was designed by a Kindergarten student using an abacus.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

susanandmark said:


> Because customers shouldn't believe what they are told by companies but instead should do Internet searches in order to disprove the promises they were given by employees? It isn't the employee's fault for telling customers the info? It is the customer's for not being smarter/more knowledgeable about the corporation's business practices than the company's employees? At least that seems to be the general consensous here.
> 
> In my case, I recently needed an HD DVR replacement and wanted to assure it was the latest model, so I purchased one directly from Solid Signal, having read here about broken promises/receiving old units. But, BEFORE I DID, I was assured by two different DirecTV reps that if I, "requested" a specific unit AND let DirecTV install it, it would be a brand new, current model unit. They all tried to dissuade me from my Solid Signal purchase. Even when I pointed out, specifically, how many times I had heard it is simply luck of the draw I was told/reassured the same thing. If I hadn't known better from reading here, I too likely would have been very upset with the outcome and felt deceived.
> 
> ...


So now we have the latest spin on your phantom commitment extension. You leased a receiver...you did not purchase one. Your commitment extension is valid. You remain the most loyal unhappy customer.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Hoosier205 said:


> So now we have the latest spin on your phantom commitment extension. You leased a receiver...you did not purchase one. Your commitment extension is valid. You remain the most loyal unhappy customer.


:lol:


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## Richard (Apr 24, 2002)

Why do you people always expect DirecTV to owe you something? If you want an HR24, then go buy one from Solid Signal or Amazon.

I have purchased all my receivers from stores (except for 1 $99 offer DirecTV had for an HD-DVR). I had 1 DVR that was disabled via a bad software update, but i just went to a store and bought a replacement and DirecTV credited my account for the purchase price. That is the only time I have ever had to call DirecTV for a hardware or service related problem.

All of my dishes over the years were purchased at retail and installed by myself.

I have had DirecTV since 1995 and only had to call in 1 time for the failed DVR that was disabled by a software update.

If any of my receivers fail on their own, I just replace them on my own (just like I would with any other electronic device in my home). I don't call DirecTV and try to get them to replace it, and I don't threaten to cancel if they don't give me free stuff.

People like jonquiljo1 are never going to be happy, no matter what.


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## Richard (Apr 24, 2002)

susanandmark said:


> As it is, even though I have it in writing (via DirecTV email) that my contract would not be extended due to purchasing my own unit, it was. Which people here now say was once again "bad information" from DirecTV, so they can't be expected to abide by what they put in writing, because, apparently, what that rep told me, without my knowledge, was wrong.
> 
> By the way, the end result of my current problem, after an email to the much vaunted Ellen, and another 40 min. on the phone, is that I will get (so they say; haven't seen it yet, but just happened about 10 days ago) a $120 credit over 6 months ($20/month), but I am STILL under a new two-year contract, even though they acknowledge I was told differently via email and that I paid $199 for my added HR24 and am a 12-year-customer that pays them $150/month. I argued my case very politely, and was treated very politely in return, but they would not budge on any matter ... Including waiving my ETF and letting me cancel right then and return all equipment.
> 
> Oh and, by the way, there is no way in [email protected]!! that DirecTV's costs on even brand new HD DVR units are greater than $199. No. Freaking. Way. Feel free to argue all you want, but just as the original poster in this thread said: It's about DirecTV's overall profit, not the actual equipment cost. They charge the fee because people pay it, not because they "have" to. (Clearly, since they give so many away to those that complain, or sign up new.)


Unless you pay full price for a DVR, then you are still leasing it. $199 is not full price.

From Solid Signal's Website:

DIRECTV NEW HR24 High Definition DIRECTV PLUS MPEG-4 DVR (HR24) HD DVR

*This is a LEASED Receiver, Please read below under Specifications to find out more*

*DIRECTV Receiver Lease 
All DIRECTV equipment offers are for leased equipment only. Equipment costs, particularly for advanced products such as HD and/or DVR receivers, can be sizable and provides customers with a more affordable alternative.

As of 3/1/06 DIRECTV® now requires a 24 month commitment and all equipment must be returned to DIRECTV® if customer cancels service with DIRECTV®*


----------



## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Richard said:


> Unless you pay full price for a DVR, then you are still leasing it. $199 is not full price.
> 
> From Solid Signal's Website:
> 
> ...


I *MEANT*I paid the $199 fee instead of taking DirecTV's free replacement. Oh, and, I know it's DirecTV's stance that "$199 is not full price," but, again, at $199 they ain't losing money on the build/development cost of these units, that I guarantee. (I think pretty easily provable based on the fact that, in the 12 months prior to the "lease" model, you owned the same units FOR THE EXACT SAME PRICE.) They just figured out a clever way to snooker folks into paying, again and again, for hardware they long ago profited on. Genius, really.

Anyone else remember when the lease and return model went into effect how people on this forum were concerned about getting old, out-of-date or badly used equipment and the fanboys insisted that DirecTV would never, ever do that and the "lease" model was solely to prevent piracy (by better inventory controlling their units) and allow for providing free replacement receivers when one went bad? Hmmm, whatever happened to that philosophy?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> I *MEANT*I paid the $199 fee instead of taking DirecTV's free replacement. Oh, and, I know it's DirecTV's stance that "$199 is not full price," but, again, at $199 they ain't losing money on the build/development cost of these units, that I guarantee. (I think pretty easily provable based on the fact that, in the 12 months prior to the "lease" model, you owned the same units FOR THE EXACT SAME PRICE.) They just figured out a clever way to snooker folks into paying, again and again, for hardware they long ago profited on. Genius, really.


Were the HR2x units ever owned? I thought they have always been leased.

The HR10 started at $1000 to own just two years earlier.

What does that do to your example?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

When the HR20-700 first came out, it was $299 and leased. I know. I received one at that price.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I believe the HR2x units were always supposed to be leased, but at they beginning they were poorly marked and marketed so many people did not realize they were leased when they "bought" them. DirecTV converted some of the early ones to owned status at a loss in order to avoid a bunch of lawsuits for bait and switch, false advertising, etc.

Even after they added a note on the box of the receiver, made you sign paperwork stating they were leased, etc. Best Buy and Costco salespeople were really bad about informing the customers that the boxes were leased, and people still got upset. I believe this is one of the reasons that they are no longer available in those stores.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

The HR20 never have been anything but leased for the normal customer. There was a few months when the H20-600 was actually for sale to own, I bought one in Feb of 06, and the lease model went into effect in Mar. HR10's were selling for $1000 as someone else pointed out...


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

The bottom line here is if you replace a failed reciever through D*, you get what you get for $20 and *no committment!*

If you have to have a HR24, purchase from a retailer, *it is leased,* and comes with a new 2 year committment.

What is so hard to understand?


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

mluntz said:


> The bottom line here is if you replace a failed reciever through D*, you get what you get for $20 and *no committment!*
> 
> If you have to have a HR24, purchase from a retailer, *it is leased,* and comes with a new 2 year committment.
> 
> What is so hard to understand?


So endeth the lesson. If only this had been post 2. :lol:


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Richard said:


> Why do you people always expect DirecTV to owe you something? If you want an HR24, then go buy one from Solid Signal or Amazon.


I really am not trying to be judgmental or anything - but do you see the lack of logic there?

DTV is the one promoting the "upgrades" and coming out with new models etc. They *are* DTV "branded", though DTV does not likely make them.

Finally, I have been told by the 4 or 5 CSR's I have talked to with this latest debacle (unless they are lying about this too) that DTV is limiting most dealers to stock on hand and that when that runs out they will only have a few DTV authorized "resellers".

So no one feels they owe us anything but not to "misinform" us. They (DTV) is choosing how they want these things sold/leased/marketed. Again, however, what happened to the old days where you could just buy a unit, install it, and pay for service?

The price for these things is set by DTV. What they really cost is a mystery - though likely is not over $300 and likely a lot less. But we have the same scenario over and over again:

1.) You can never be sure what you are buying or (getting to lease) - it's "spin the bottle" each time unless you go outside the company - and that is being slowly curtailed.

2.) You have to buy equipment to lease. Now that is odd in itself. You usually lease it or buy it. There is no one who does anything like this in business that I can think of.

3.) If you change anything, you are forced into a 24 month additional contract with stiff penalty fees. The initial $480 contract value is a lot of money to most people! All that to lease a receiver you will never own and had to pay $200 just to start?


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Richard said:


> *DIRECTV Receiver Lease
> All DIRECTV equipment offers are for leased equipment only. Equipment costs, particularly for advanced products such as HD and/or DVR receivers, can be sizable and provides customers with a more affordable alternative.
> 
> As of 3/1/06 DIRECTV® now requires a 24 month commitment and all equipment must be returned to DIRECTV® if customer cancels service with DIRECTV®*


Now this sounds like the old "Bell Telephone" aka "The Phone Company". Anyone around here over 50 should remember the days of leasing these old crappy phones each month until eternity. Bell replaced them when they broke, but you had no choice. Then companies started making phones to buy. It was the beginning of the revolution. Bell customers realized that they didn't need to own phones, nor did they have to use Bell long distance. Sentiment got so bad the Fed's finally broke up Bell and basically destroyed them.

The main differences ware that technology changes a lot faster now - so what you lease is outdated in a couple or few years. No one ever had a "service commitment" or "contract" back then either. It was unheard of. But look what happened. If DTV buys Dish, they are fair game for anti-trust legislation. Given that, whey do they push it so hard to look like they are totally running the show?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Email Ellen to fix your problem ...oh wait... you refuse to. Keep on ranting...nothing will change.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

sigma1914 said:


> Email Ellen to fix your problem ...oh wait... you refuse to. Keep on ranting...nothing will change.


There is nothing to fix. I FedEx'd the receiver (HR22) back to them and will eventually get a credit for it. I have a replacement coming and I will install it even if it is an HR10, though I am just tempted to put an eSATA drive on the bad HR20.

Basically the "experience" is over. I don't care about the lost $50 in shipping fees (both ways). I could buy a new HR24 if I wanted to (even for $2000 - and I'm sure someone would sell one for that). I just don't want to anymore. Calling a special "fix-it" person (Ellen) does not remove the bad experience or make DTV a better place to do business.

Out of their 19 Million customers - how many people even have heard of "Ellen"?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> ...
> Out of their 19 Million customers - how many people even have heard of "Ellen"?


However many use their website plus others on forums.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Out of their 19 Million customers - how many people even have heard of "Ellen"?


Out of the 19 million customers, 18.9 million couldn't tell you what model of DVR they have. They decide on Directv as a provider. They get a dish and as many DVRs and receivers as they ordered. This Forum, and others like it, represent a tiny percentage of customers, and a very narrow and skewed demographic.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

jonquiljo1 said:


> I really am not trying to be judgmental or anything - but do you see the lack of logic there?
> 
> DTV is the one promoting the "upgrades" and coming out with new models etc. They *are* DTV "branded", though DTV does not likely make them.
> 
> ...


...oh where to begin. I won't even bother since you appear to be concerned with complaining than you are with rectifying it or understanding what happened.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jonquiljo1;2772225DTV is the one promoting the "upgrades" and coming out with new models etc. They [B said:


> are[/B] DTV "branded", though DTV does not likely make them.


The "upgrade" is from no HD to having HD .. or from no DVR to having a DVR.



> The price for these things is set by DTV. What they really cost is a mystery - though likely is not over $300 and likely a lot less.


It's hard to say for exact sure what the STB costs are ... There are simply too many factors involved. Here's a chart from the investor day presentation in 2008: link

Slide 21 shows an HD-DVR OEM cost of $260 .. If we assume a general normalization at that point across STBs (standards, etc.) then perhaps the OEM cost is $250 right now (give or take). There is still delivery charges, access card charge (Licensing fees, etc.) and a percentage to the middleware team for software development. I'd argue that the fully loaded cost of each unit is north of $400. DIRECTV chose the lease model to smooth out the costs for everyone. The HR10-250 was $1000/unit to buy and maybe the HR2x would be $500/unit to buy in a similar model. Would the higher price attract more customers or less? Sure it would be owned, but when a customer leaves, they have a brick which could be sold or recycled, but very often would simply get tossed into landfills. By taking an active stand in re-use, DIRECTV mitigates a lot of problems .. Additionally, they can amortize the equipment over multiple years for tax reasons.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

MSRP for the Owned HR21Pro was $599. I think DirecTV charges their techs something like $450 for a lost/damaged HD-DVR. I'm thinking that would probably be pretty close to what retail would be if they were sold.

A Tivo Premier costs $499 and still requires a 1 year commitment to their $13/month service.

A Moxi 1 tuner DVR is $299, and a 3 tuner DVR is $599.

I don't think you can buy anything near the HD-DVRs DirecTV has for $200.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Beerstalker said:


> A Tivo Premier costs $499 and still requires a 1 year commitment to their $13/month service.


The trick is - do you own it? If you do, then it's more like a smartphone.

Either way, MSRP is usually a large multiple of the internal cost to a company like DTV. If they are charging their tech's $450 for them its to discourage them from selling them on the side and calling them lost.

Either way - I'm sure everyone will be glad to know that an HR20 arrived - though 2 techs swore to me that they don't send those out anymore - ever. I didn't believe them, so I was not surprised by the HR20.

I will install it - and if it's too noisy (like the last one), I will buy a used one off eBay that can be "activated", cut the power to the HD and put a 2.5 laptop eSATA on it. Still no contracts.

Needless to say, when Comcast installs the line here I am going to think seriously about jumping ship. A little change is not bad here and there.

I really don't why there are so many people here defending them - it's pretty obvious where they come from.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

jonquiljo1 said:


> The trick is - do you own it? If you do, then it's more like a smartphone.
> 
> Either way, MSRP is usually a large multiple of the internal cost to a company like DTV. If they are charging their tech's $450 for them its to discourage them from selling them on the side and calling them lost.
> 
> ...


I'd think again. They don't call it "Comcrap" for nothing.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> A Tivo Premier costs $499 and still requires a 1 year commitment to their $13/month service.


Tivo Premier, full retail, is $299 + 13/mo. Its available much cheaper from various sources, and I got mine with lifetime and no commitment for $499. I added a 2TB internal drive for an additional $69.



MysteryMan said:


> I'd think again. They don't call it "Comcrap" for nothing.


They dont call it "Comcrap" at all, actually. The upgraded systems are called Xfinity. I am quite happy with mine. Picture quality is outstanding, HD basic channel lineups are much more robust than DirecTvs, SD channels have much more resolution and are watchable, On Demand is fast, and doesnt require a "Whole home upgrade" to be installed to use it. You can use different manufacturers boxes as you wish. You can copy recorded programs to your computer for storage/viewing later. Ceton even has a 4 tuner box out that with the addition of ONE cablecard from Xfinity, allows you to record 4 HD channels at once, and view them anywhere on your network via Windows Media Center, a stand-alone media extender, or a network connected computer. No they do not have "Sunday Ticket", and their sports channels are limited. They DO, however, carry all the local subchannels. Tit/Tat. But no reason to dis them. I am quite happy with my service.

I was very happy with DirecTv as well, until they used their promised D12 space to add channels I do not watch, raised the price of their sports packages out of my budget, and refuse to add even the most common HD basic channels. If things change, I still have my dish installed, and the receivers and DVRs packed in boxes in the closet. Right now tho, only a major price increase from Xfinity would push me back...and even then, I can promise you, I will recoop the cost of the two Tivo's with no problem. I wont have to send them back to Tivo.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Davenlr said:


> They dont call it "Comcrap" at all, actually.


No, it's called competition. Thats what our economic system is based on. Competition is good. DTV needs to learn about competition - as eventually everyone goes somewhere else over time. It may take many years - but people do.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

These 'my dad's better than your dad' arguments are so futile. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If someone is unhappy with a provider, then vote with your wallet and leave and go to another one.

If I had been genuinely 'wronged' by a satellite/cable provider, I would leave. The early termination cost would not be an issue, and I certainly wouldn't waste my time coming to a Forum of the relevant provider.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Were the HR2x units ever owned? I thought they have always been leased.
> 
> The HR10 started at $1000 to own just two years earlier.
> 
> What does that do to your example?


In way yes - have multiple owned Hr2X units, they replaced owned Hr10's under the protection plan, so they are flagged owned also.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> In way yes - have multiple owned Hr2X units, they replaced owned Hr10's under the protection plan, so they are flagged owned also.


I meant to buy. I was talking about the price point that was used erroneously.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> No, it's called competition. Thats what our economic system is based on. Competition is good. DTV needs to learn about competition - as eventually everyone goes somewhere else over time. It may take many years - but people do.


Everyone? I love generalizations.

BTW, I call it Comcrap because where I am that is exactly what it is.

Comcrap changed the name to Xfinity because they knew people called it Comcrap. Company name is still Comcrap.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm from the SF Bay Area as well .. I am not impressed with Comcast/Xfinity .. Although I have to admit I do like their new jingle.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm from the SF Bay Area as well .. I am not impressed with Comcast/Xfinity .. Although I have to admit I do like their new jingle.


Total agreement. Their marketing has improved greatly. Of course, the name change to Xfinity was a marketing ploy and nothing else.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Yep. Just a rebrand of their triple play offering.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Yep. Just a rebrand of their triple play offering.


Actually rebrand of everything. They call it Xfinity even if you only get one thing.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well, I will eventually change to Comcrap. For now, the HD20 is working fine and is noisy as ever. You see, if I owned it after all these years, I could go in, cut the power to the old internal HD and attach an external 2.5" eSata HD that would be quiet as a mouse. But I can't do that as when I return it I will be changed a lot of money for removing the tape seal.

I think all of these companies are pathetic. As technology keeps getting more complex and there are more people who can afford these things - we tend to get decreasing levels of service. Thirty or forty years ago many people could simply not afford premium TV, etc. So these companies fought hard to get and keep your business. Now lots more people can, and it shows.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Well, I will eventually change to Comcrap. For now, the HD20 is working fine and is noisy as ever. You see, if I owned it after all these years, I could go in, cut the power to the old internal HD and attach an external 2.5" eSata HD that would be quiet as a mouse. But I can't do that as when I return it I will be changed a lot of money for removing the tape seal.
> 
> ...


You can easily add an external eSATA drive to a leased unit without opening it. Why do you think there's an eSATA port on the back?


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> You can easily add an external eSATA drive to a leased unit without opening it. Why do you think there's an eSATA port on the back?


I think the internal hd will still make noise.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> I think the internal hd will still make noise.


I can't speak from experience, but I found this:


BattleZone said:


> Yes, the internal drive spins up, but it does not seek, so it makes very little (if any) noise.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

I may try that as I have the drive and cables. I assume the USB is hot, though likely not functional - so I can run the drive from the 5v of the USB?
eSATA drives need power - and a 2.5 will barely make a squeak rather than a 3.5" in a cooling enclosure.

The internal SATA makes a whole lot of racket. If they refurbished these things with a newer WD SATA they would be a whole lot quieter. The heads on new drives are very quiet.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jonquiljo1 said:


> I may try that as I have the drive and cables. I assume the USB is hot, though likely not functional - so I can run the drive from the 5v of the USB?
> eSATA drives need power - and a 2.5 will barely make a squeak rather than a 3.5" in a cooling enclosure.
> 
> The internal SATA makes a whole lot of racket. If they refurbished these things with a newer WD SATA they would be a whole lot quieter. The heads on new drives are very quiet.


I know that you can charge off the USB but I would be skepticle about using a device like a HD where a power flux can have a negative impact on it. I'd just go with an enclosure rather than deal with any problems that could come up. As I've never tested it I won't say that it wouldn't work but it's not something I would want to gamble on.

They will always use the same model HD in a line to keep the firmware optimizations the same.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

I run a eSATA/USB (powered) 2.5" drive to laptops all the time. It will provide about 2.5Gb/s throughput. I will try, and it fit doesn't work, try the enclosure.

But enclosure make a lot of noise for the cooling. That's what's so great about the 2.5" drives. They are now very fast but don't need to be fan cooled. I have 2 i5 laptops that put desktops to shame even with 2.5" drives.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they still put 3.5" drives in these boxes nowadays - not with current generation (up to 6.0 Gb/S throughputs. 2.5" drives are just slightly more expensive and very fast and need little cooling. And they are almost impossible to hear unless you put your ear to them.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I wouldn't stake stability on that 2.5" drive Sure, it might work, but if it's not designed for DVRs, it may perform badly.


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## mtyler18 (May 1, 2011)

Each account is different so what may be available for you isn't for him. True, an agent _could_ just issue a credit to the account and he could go buy it but it sounds like DTV got the problem fixed. There had to be a break down in communication somewhere or he would have received a replacement and not an upgrade the first time. 


drguava said:


> I have been a Directv customer since 1996, I've three receivers HR24 and two HR20's with MRV. One HR 20 died I called DTV asked for replacement requested HR24 I was told they could not guaranteed, I told them if not HR24 would be returning to DTV and cancelling that receiver. I received HR22 called DTV ask for customer retention told them I was cancelling this receiver connection plus my sports package and explained why. Customer Retention gave me an instant $200 credit to my account so I can purchase HR24 myself. I purchased HR24 for $197 including shipping. In my experience the HR24 is faster than HR20 especially when changing channels.
> 
> Be persistent with Customer Retention and good luck!!


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## mtyler18 (May 1, 2011)

I had a technician come out about two weeks ago and install a new HR24. That takes me up to 8 now. I have never purchased one online, I have gone through DTV _each_ time. If you have a tech install it, you usually do get a newer model. Simply thinking about how many of the new receivers are just sitting in a warehouse makes it make sense. Any replacement receiver would be the same type. Thus, when one of my HR24s when out, I had it sent to me and got the same kind! The cost of a receiver is WELL over $199. That's like saying an Ipad costs $50 to make. Doesn't make ANY sense. Sure, we see technology and think-that must be cheap. I am a consumer for a company and they try to CHARGE me when I want to upgrade MY system. Pretty sure when I call my phone company to get the newest phone I have to pay for it. IF I happen to have a discounted phone for resigning for two years I take it because it will save me money upfront. Did you ever even ask an agent about that? DTV usually is able to assist with the fees if you keep your account in good standing, just like a phone company....or any company for that matter...HMMM think I can call my cell phone provider and say that my phone broke and TELL THEM I want the newest 4G phone on the market WITHOUT paying anything? LOL. Yeah, pretty sure they would laugh at me. They ended up giving you the receiver for $79. Did you read the agreement that comes from solidsignal or your customer agreement? Because I am pretty sure one, if not both of those, say any leased receiver (and if you paid $199 you paid for a leased box, not an owned one, that would have cost $499) does instate a 24 mo agreement. Hopefully this helped clarify a few things that I have experienced with DTV.


susanandmark said:


> Because customers shouldn't believe what they are told by companies but instead should do Internet searches in order to disprove the promises they were given by employees? It isn't the employee's fault for telling customers the info? It is the customer's for not being smarter/more knowledgeable about the corporation's business practices than the company's employees? At least that seems to be the general consensous here.
> 
> In my case, I recently needed an HD DVR replacement and wanted to assure it was the latest model, so I purchased one directly from Solid Signal, having read here about broken promises/receiving old units. But, BEFORE I DID, I was assured by two different DirecTV reps that if I, "requested" a specific unit AND let DirecTV install it, it would be a brand new, current model unit. They all tried to dissuade me from my Solid Signal purchase. Even when I pointed out, specifically, how many times I had heard it is simply luck of the draw I was told/reassured the same thing. If I hadn't known better from reading here, I too likely would have been very upset with the outcome and felt deceived.
> 
> ...


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## mtyler18 (May 1, 2011)

You can purchase an external hard drive from companies like Best Buy where you also have a larger capacity. You simply unplug your box, plug the external into the eSATA and then reset the box. Your hard drive will now the the external one and if you ever need to jump back and forth you just unplug from wall and repeat =)


jonquiljo1 said:


> Well, I will eventually change to Comcrap. For now, the HD20 is working fine and is noisy as ever. You see, if I owned it after all these years, I could go in, cut the power to the old internal HD and attach an external 2.5" eSata HD that would be quiet as a mouse. But I can't do that as when I return it I will be changed a lot of money for removing the tape seal.
> 
> I think all of these companies are pathetic. As technology keeps getting more complex and there are more people who can afford these things - we tend to get decreasing levels of service. Thirty or forty years ago many people could simply not afford premium TV, etc. So these companies fought hard to get and keep your business. Now lots more people can, and it shows.


----------



## mtyler18 (May 1, 2011)

DTV's doesn't either. I love how when discussing a company, it isn't ever about "this is a unique feature that I like" instead it is false information and a mudslinging war. For the record, any HD-DVR is compatible with D**


Davenlr said:


> TOn Demand is fast, and doesnt require a "Whole home upgrade" to be installed to use it.


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Time Magazine had a short article this past issue about the cost of an iPhone. It came to (parts and labor) $179 for Apple to make. The rest is profit to them. I think "list price" they charge around $700 (no contract).

Or you can pay $199 with contract. But the phone is yours. DTV's HR24 can't be much different than that. Except you never own it. They get them all back and recycle them so that in 5 or 6 years they are still sending out HR20's made in 2006. I suspect they are making a bundle off all of us. Then again, all of these companies are profiting immensely at our expense.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

2.5" drives still run plenty hot, they are no quieter than 3.5" drives, and I just checked newegg, they have literally 2 models that are 1TB, and nothing larger than that...2TB 3.5" drives go for around $100, 1TB 2.5" drives are $100...By my count there is nothing compelling about using a 2.5" drive on my DVR yet...I also don't think one of them is rated for AV use like the models most of us specifically buy today in the 3.5" size...


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Time Magazine had a short article this past issue about the cost of an iPhone. It came to (parts and labor) $179 for Apple to make. The rest is profit to them. I think "list price" they charge around $700 (no contract).
> 
> Or you can pay $199 with contract. But the phone is yours. DTV's HR24 can't be much different than that. Except you never own it. They get them all back and recycle them so that in 5 or 6 years they are still sending out HR20's made in 2006. I suspect they are making a bundle off all of us. Then again, all of these companies are profiting immensely at our expense.


that order of pasta you pay 14.99 for costs the resturaunt about 75 cents - and it gets recycled also. I suspect that the resturaunt is makmng a bundle off us.


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Time Magazine had a short article this past issue about the cost of an iPhone. It came to (parts and labor) $179 for Apple to make. The rest is profit to them. I think "list price" they charge around $700 (no contract).
> 
> Or you can pay $199 with contract. But the phone is yours. DTV's HR24 can't be much different than that. Except you never own it. They get them all back and recycle them so that in 5 or 6 years they are still sending out HR20's made in 2006. I suspect they are making a bundle off all of us. Then again, all of these companies are profiting immensely at our expense.


Parts and labor do not account for the entire cost of any product.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jonquiljo1 said:


> Time Magazine had a short article this past issue about the cost of an iPhone. It came to (parts and labor) $179 for Apple to make. The rest is profit to them. I think "list price" they charge around $700 (no contract).
> 
> Or you can pay $199 with contract. But the phone is yours. DTV's HR24 can't be much different than that. Except you never own it. They get them all back and recycle them so that in 5 or 6 years they are still sending out HR20's made in 2006. I suspect they are making a bundle off all of us. Then again, all of these companies are profiting immensely at our expense.


There is 1 thing an HR20 can't do that an HR24 can. How many things can an iphone 4 do that an original iphone can't? Comparing mobile technology to a television providers equipment isn't even in the same ballpark. Carriers and manufacturers know that their cell phones are garbage after a couple of years compared to current models. They could easily go to a lease model as well but the abuse and changing of technology would make it a loss catagory not a profit catagory.


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

Shades228 said:


> There is 1 thing an HR20 can't do that an HR24 can. How many things can an iphone 4 do that an original iphone can't? Comparing mobile technology to a television providers equipment isn't even in the same ballpark. Carriers and manufacturers know that their cell phones are garbage after a couple of years compared to current models. They could easily go to a lease model as well but the abuse and changing of technology would make it a loss catagory not a profit catagory.


I'm so grateful you posted that. I've been thinking the same thing this whole time. He loves his phones. Must work for the phone company. :hurah:


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## aintry (Sep 22, 2007)

Same thing just happened to me. I called DTV last week asking for an upgrade because all 3 of my DVRs are excruciatingly slow or non-responsive to remote control. Trying to surf the guide is worse than pulling teeth with no anesthesia, and don't even try to call up a recorded program from the list. DTV said that I could at least upgrade one of my DVRs and was told I would be getting an HR24. I just opened the box and out popped a steaming pile of HR22 which is what we use in the living room for primary viewing. Not only was it an HR22, but a "reconditioned" one at that. I haven't hooked it up yet and am still too furious to call DTV but am about to dial the number and explode.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

aintry said:


> Same thing just happened to me. I called DTV last week asking for an upgrade because all 3 of my DVRs are excruciatingly slow or non-responsive to remote control. Trying to surf the guide is worse than pulling teeth with no anesthesia, and don't even try to call up a recorded program from the list. DTV said that I could at least upgrade one of my DVRs and was told I would be getting an HR24. I just opened the box and out popped a steaming pile of HR22 which is what we use in the living room for primary viewing. Not only was it an HR22, but a "reconditioned" one at that. I haven't hooked it up yet and am still too furious to call DTV but am about to dial the number and explode.


Can't help you with what they sent, but there are some standard things to try in terms of speeding up a box.

Tune to channel 1 and when it's fully loaded, use the sequence red red blue blue yellow green to clear NVRAM.

If using the standard DirecTV remote:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=184693

For guide speed, turn off scrolling effects.

Also, while this doesn't help now, and may sound counterintuitive, a new HD GUI is scheduled for rollout in October. The CEO has specifically said that there are major speed increases with it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

aintry said:


> Same thing just happened to me. I called DTV last week asking for an upgrade because all 3 of my DVRs are excruciatingly slow or non-responsive to remote control. Trying to surf the guide is worse than pulling teeth with no anesthesia, and don't even try to call up a recorded program from the list. DTV said that I could at least upgrade one of my DVRs and was told I would be getting an HR24. I just opened the box and out popped a steaming pile of HR22 which is what we use in the living room for primary viewing. Not only was it an HR22, but a "reconditioned" one at that. I haven't hooked it up yet and am still too furious to call DTV but am about to dial the number and explode.


Sorry for your trouble .. I'm surprised the CSR told you you would be getting an HR24. They should know it's not really possible in their system to do that. Virtually all replacements like the one you are talking about are refurbs. So the result of this change is not surprising. The way in which it was communicated should have been done better.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Doug - why are you surprised, given so many stories here over the years of people apparantly being told otherwise by the salesperson/CSR? I'm not excusing people being ignorant of DirecTV's written terms and other small print, but neither am I excusing CSRs for verbally misleading people, if that is what has been happening. 

Maybe informed people like us need to start calling and recording to see what kind of BS is possibly being put out.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OK .. that should read: moderately surprised. It certainly doesn't come as a shock.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

What's more surprising to me is all the people that read and post on these forums know you really dont get to pick and choose the boxes D* sends out, but are still "shocked" when they dont get an HR24 like they requested...


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

That poster only had 2 posts, he probably did not know. If I was promised something by a company, regardless of whether the online community said it was not possible, I would tend to believe the company I was dealing with.


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## bixler (Oct 14, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> That poster only had 2 posts, he probably did not know. If I was promised something by a company, regardless of whether the online community said it was not possible, I would tend to believe the company I was dealing with.


But he's been reading since at least 2007 when he joined.......


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Bottom line is if the D* CSR tells you something (and the business claims to have integrity) as a customer you should be able to trust that information. The CSRs are clearly representing D* and as such seem to LIE on regular occasions. 

For people mentioning CSR roulette.... It is ludicrous to believe that these CSRs are giving out potentially dozens of different responses to the same basic questions. Honestly I believe it is fraud. I have never believed the "forum line" claiming that these people are so incredibly poorly trained and it isn't deliberate on the part of D*. I figure it IS deliberate and a design of their business practices. 

D* has been called on the mat by various consumer protection agencies and courts for questionable practices we all know this .


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I've been told so many incorrect things by CSRs in so many companies that it's either an overall lack of training, or a conspiracy.

I'm thinking a good CSR doesn't last long on first level (I'm hoping they move up, not they get frustrated and leave), and there is so much turnover it's hard to keep all the reps to a good knowledge level.

I'm sure there are also some that will just tell the customer what they want to hear to get rid of the call, either because they don't want to deal with the customer anymore, or they'll get penalized for taking too long for one call.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

You'd think by now DirecTV would have sticky notes glued to the top of CSR's monitors emphasizing the response "Your replacement receiver is just that, not necessarily a new one."

I got a second DVR, which turned out to be an HR21. It was free and offered by the CSR without my even asking. It's working just fine.


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## jjmck172 (Jun 13, 2011)

After getting sent a lovely refurbished HR20 HD DVR in 2008, I learned that the only way to get a newer model receiver is to go out and get it yourself from someone other than DIRECTV.

I have a nice R-16 DVR and an HR24 HD DVR that I got online.

I also have the dinosaur HR 20 that I got from DIRECTV.

'Nuff said! 

Save yourself the hassle and get a receiver online.
I have been with DIRECTV since 1997, but I won't get another receiver from them!


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