# Dish got Fox RSNs back.. Still not showing all HD games



## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

Hello Dish,

It's great to see that you worked things out with Fox and now can provide everyone their regional sports. That's great. Can you tell me why you don't think some of them deserve to be shown in HD? Tonight my Rockets are playing the New Orleans Hornets. It should be a great game! Comcast has it in HD. DirecTV has it in HD. AT&T Uverse has it in HD. Dish does not. Which one of these is not like the others? I'm not asking for out of market games. I'm not asking for EVERY NFL game. I don't want that. I just want my local games in HD. You can't seem to do this for me.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Do we really need to keep starting new threads on this particular topic?

Dish has part-time RSNs in HD... which means a limited number of HD games per night.. so on heavy nights, some are missed.

While certainly annoying if your game is not carried in HD, it isn't anything new with Dish. It has been this way since the beginning of Dish adding HD RSN feeds years ago.

It bites, but isn't anything new.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

I kind of planned to do it every new season of sports on the RSNs, hoping that perhaps someone in Dish network actually reads these forums. I'm probably just going to bite the bullet and have DirecTV installed, at least for now. I'm just tired of complaining at this point.

Actually I already have done it, and scheduled the installation. You can lock this topic if it's really that annoying to you. It's annoying to me that I don't get my games in HD until next week after the installation.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The FS RSN has returned to their pre-dispute carriage levels. Perhaps next year there will be more carriage. Updates as events warrant.


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## starshockey (Oct 5, 2010)

It's not FSN RN it is DISH. One of the reasons I left. Example, baseball game on FSSW on dish this season SD, same game on DTV HD. In fact all Texas Rangers games on DTV are HD, it is hit and miss on Dish. Dish advertises them as part time HD feeds and DTV advertises them as full time.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

CoolGui said:


> You can lock this topic if it's really that annoying to you. It's annoying to me that I don't get my games in HD until next week after the installation.


Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh... I actually would love to have full time RSNs in HD with Dish, and certainly the topic is valid to re-visit now and again.

I just don't know why we get 5 new topics every year, and especially now after just getting the part-time status back it seems like overkill.

For whatever reason, it clearly isn't a priority to Dish. I'm not going to switch to DirecTV over it... but I too wish we at least weren't missing games.

Even if Dish can't go to 100% full-time RSNs... they could at least add a few more part-time feeds to handle the times when there are more simultaneous games.

I'd be fine with that... getting all the games in HD... even if we didn't ever get the rest of the channel content.


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## Brent72 (Oct 21, 2010)

I finally caved and switched to DirecTV because of all this. I just couldn't deal with the watered down version of NBA League Pass this season.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Brent72 said:


> I finally caved and switched to DirecTV because of all this. I just couldn't deal with the watered down version of NBA League Pass this season.


IF I were paying for League Pass or Center Ice... I could see why anyone would be mad at not having all the HD games available.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

stewart vernon said:


> do we really need to keep starting new threads on this particular topic?
> 
> Dish has part-time rsns in hd... Which means a limited number of hd games per night.. So on heavy nights, some are missed.
> 
> ...


yes we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Deal with it!!!!!!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ehren said:


> yes we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Deal with it!!!!!!


DISH has had part time HD RSNs with a very limited number of HD games carried for years. Perhaps it is time for those who are really upset about the issue to "deal with it"?

We could start yet another complaint thread here but it should be noted that DISH (and DirecTV) seem to have their own agendas. Thousand post threads don't seem to change their agenda. If it eases one's tension to complain then so be it ... but please, complain nicely. Some of us are trying to enjoy the channels we have!


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

If you compare the channel lists between DirecTV and Dish, you'll notice that, overall, they have almost exactly the same number of HD channels.

You'll also notice that DirecTV has used many of those channels to provide full-time RSNs in HD, at the expense of NOT having many cable and premium movie channels in HD (AMC, BBCA, HBOs, etc.). Each company has allocated their limited resources in the way that they feel best meets the needs/desires of their customers. DirecTV, as always, is heavily focused on sports, while Dish is more focused on movies. Knowing that should be a big part of every subscriber's decision on which carrier to choose.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> ...I'd be fine with that... getting all the games in HD... even if we didn't ever get the rest of the channel content.


That is actually the most I had hoped for at this point. Even though the DirecTV enthusiasts say their RSNs are full time, mine isn't, I've checked the schedule. But they do seem to have all the games in HD that dish isn't showing. Honestly I'm still having buyer's remorse as I really don't want to give up BBC America HD and Red Zone channel but I really can't deal with no HD games and still no HD on TV2. I guess you can say I ran out of patience. I will reevaluate after the 2 year commitment is over.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

James Long said:


> DISH has had part time HD RSNs with a very limited number of HD games carried for years. Perhaps it is time for those who are really upset about the issue to "deal with it"?
> 
> We could start yet another complaint thread here but it should be noted that DISH (and DirecTV) seem to have their own agendas. Thousand post threads don't seem to change their agenda. If it eases one's tension to complain then so be it ... but please, complain nicely. Some of us are trying to enjoy the channels we have!


I have always hated it when someone uses the "that's the way it's always been" scenario as an excuse to keep it that way. I find it insulting for someone to tell me to DEAL WITH IT. That's the attitude that almost killed General Motors before the buying public started buying Japanese vehicles and told General Motors, among others, to deal with this big boy. I, like you, am trying to enjoy the channels I have but that's no reason to be content with the channels I have. If "D" can provide the RSN's in HD I want to know why "E" chooses not to. Key word there is "Chooses". They charge an extra $5 per month for the 120+. If that's not enough then why did they decide on $5. If they need $10 just say so.
"


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

inazsully said:


> I have always hated it when someone uses the "that's the way it's always been" scenario as an excuse to keep it that way. I find it insulting for someone to tell me to DEAL WITH IT. That's the attitude that almost killed General Motors before the buying public started buying Japanese vehicles and told General Motors, among others, to deal with this big boy. I, like you, am trying to enjoy the channels I have but that's no reason to be content with the channels I have. If "D" can provide the RSN's in HD I want to know why "E" chooses not to. Key word there is "Chooses". They charge an extra $5 per month for the 120+. If that's not enough then why did they decide on $5. If they need $10 just say so.
> "


I think you missed the point... that this isn't anything new... so why complain as if it is something new that you just found out about Dish?

I choose to stay with Dish and be disappointed in the part-time RSNs because I'm happy with everything else.

IF the part-time RSNs are that big of a deal, and it is clear that Dish does not have this on the fast track, then why would anyone continue to gripe about something that they could fix themselves by going to a different provider?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is a trade off. There is a provider who has gone overboard to make sure every feed of every game is transmitted in HD and is available to everyone they can provide it to. A provider that thinks so much of RSN carriage that they include it in their top level package.

And then there is DISH ... Their 12 HD games a day plan worked great when there were only 12 HD games to carry. Now ... not so much. It is their weakest spot at the moment and it should probably be their next top priority (after whatever their current top priority is).

I appreciate the carriage of the additional national HD channels that everyone gets - no blackouts. But RSNs are in a way another major local network. Every customer expects to get ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in HD. Many want PBS, CW and every other local channel as well. But they also what THEIR local RSN. They could care less about the other 60 RSNs as long as THEIR game on THEIR RSN is carried.

And just like carrying locals in 212 markets, the only way everyone gets their local RSN is if all local RSNs are carried ... including the truly part time feeds of the RSNs that break away from a larger region (such as FS Indiana and FS Wisconsin). If DISH could convert the current 29 RSNs to 24/7 HD they would be half way there (on bandwidth) and more than halfway there on satisfying the desire for a local RSN. Unfortunately the FS Indiana and FS Wisconsin customers will still be out of luck unless DISH finds the temporary bandwidth for those games.

At the moment national HD and spotbeamed locals seem to be the priority ... and I can understand why. With national HD one can make millions happy with the addition of one channel - with RSNs DISH could add 29 channels and still not make as many people happy. With locals there is a required schedule that must be met for carrying every local channel available in HD (in markets where any channel is carried in HD) - no such federal requirement exists for RSNs.

DISH should do better ... but it won't be easy. I believe they are doing the best they can.

I appreciate looking at the bandwidth usage and realizing that western arc is practically full. Not enough room for 29 24/7 RSNs without losing valuable national HD channels. I'd rather see a satellite being fully used than one sitting with a lot of empty space with their customers waiting for who knows what to be added.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm just tired of people whining about HD all the time. It's a reeeeeeaaaaalllllyy boring one trick pony.

I'd almost prefer they turn off all HD completely.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> I'm just tired of people whining about HD all the time. It's a reeeeeeaaaaalllllyy boring one trick pony.
> 
> I'd almost prefer they turn off all HD completely.


Last I looked, this thread was called "high definition discussion". I have a HD TV (last I looked, HD TV's are about the only TV's available). I pay for HD service. I paid for a HD DVR. The vast majority of channels available are broadcast in HD. So yes, if it's broadcast in HD I want it in HD. It is a better picture, right?


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think you missed the point... that this isn't anything new... so why complain as if it is something new that you just found out about Dish?
> 
> I choose to stay with Dish and be disappointed in the part-time RSNs because I'm happy with everything else.
> 
> IF the part-time RSNs are that big of a deal, and it is clear that Dish does not have this on the fast track, then why would anyone continue to gripe about something that they could fix themselves by going to a different provider?


Nope, I got the point. I, like you, also choose to stay with Dish because I'm happy with everything else. I've been with Dish and have promoted Dish to friends for many years so I know this problem is far from new. But I'm greedy and I want it all. Sorry, but that's the simple truth of the matter. As the consumer all I see is that "D" offers something that I want from Dish. I don't care that Dish offers several HD channels that "D" does not. Screw "D". Dish is my company.
I don't want to fix the situation myself by going to another provider and Dish certainly should not want any sub to go to another provider to fix something that they can fix. You state that it's clear Dish does not have this RSN problem on it's fast track. Well then it's up to us to let them know that it should be on their fast track. If you can think of a better way to make them aware besides complaining then I'm all ears. The squeaky wheel gets fixed first so I choose to squeak. If the numbers are correct that 4+ million households pay extra for the RSN's then we need 4+ million squeakers.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> It is a trade off. There is a provider who has gone overboard to make sure every feed of every game is transmitted in HD and is available to everyone they can provide it to....


I wouldn't go so far as to say it's overboard, honestly... Overboard to me is negative, and this just sounds like good service. 



James Long said:


> ....Not enough room for 29 24/7 RSNs...


Well as was mentioned further up in the thread, I would be content for now with just the games in HD. Maybe they would need 29 channels to accomplish that, I don't know, but they don't have to be full time. You also have east/west coast games, unfortunately most of the games would have to be broadcast twice for each team to have their own broadcast. When I look at the pay per view channels though, I know they have some bandwidth available. I'd be interested to know how much dish really makes off of those. Basically one HD movie is about the cost of a month of netflix, it's hard to imagine that many people buy them. But who knows... I guess people throw away their money on all sorts of things.



inazsully said:


> .... If the numbers are correct that 4+ million households pay extra for the RSN's then we need 4+ million squeakers.


Probably half of those 4 million would be squeaking that they don't want to pay extra for the RSN but have to because it's attached onto every plan over the AT120.  I do get your point though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inazsully said:


> I don't want to fix the situation myself by going to another provider and Dish certainly should not want any sub to go to another provider to fix something that they can fix.


And that is where I cut DISH the most slack. At this point I don't see a good way of DISH fixing it.

If DISH were sitting on 30 vacant slots I'd feel differently about it. But there are only 10 vacant slots on Western Arc transponders. Using all of those and the 12 current RSN feed channels gives DISH 22 channels ... and they carry 29 named RSNs. So they come up short even before considering alternate channels.

If they freed up a SD transponder that would give DISH room for eight more HD channels. The AAD leased transponders come to mind but that means no more 'national' distants via DISH equipment ... even for RV users. And only 8-16 more HD channels. And whatever is used for 24/7 HD RSNs will not be available for national HD channels (so take a look at the list and eliminate the chance of any other new HD).

There are three options I see:
1) Put 9 HDs on every transponder. There is a transponder on 72.7 that has 9 HDs on it so it is "possible". 9 per transponder gives DISH room for 29 more HD channels (41 with the current RSN feeds).
2) Put 24/7 RSNs on spotbeams. The chosen spots would have to cover the entire RSN's market (which could be difficult for a large RSN like FS Midwest). Some RSNs might have to go ConUS to cover their home markets. This option would take up space that is required for HD locals.
3) Put 24/7 RSNs on Eastern Arc. There is plenty of space available there ... more so with DirecTV vacating 72.7. It would mean a two dish solution for many customers. Not a good answer.

It is going to get done. How ... well I shudder to think. But I'll keep watching the skies.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

CoolGui said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say it's overboard, honestly... Overboard to me is negative, and this just sounds like good service.


One must go overboard to see the best sites at a coral reef. Overboard isn't always bad. Being able to show 60+ games at a time is a good thing.



> When I look at the pay per view channels though, I know they have some bandwidth available. I'd be interested to know how much dish really makes off of those. Basically one HD movie is about the cost of a month of netflix, it's hard to imagine that many people buy them. But who knows... I guess people throw away their money on all sorts of things.


DISH is the company with only 21 PPV movie channels, not 41. They wouldn't be there if there was not enough financial return. I can see using a few for sports but there needs to be a few left for those who do buy PPVs.



> Probably half of those 4 million would be squeaking that they don't want to pay extra for the RSN but have to because it's attached onto every plan over the AT120.  I do get your point though.


The question would be how many have HD. 14 million customers with roughly 4 million at AT120 (possibly without AT120+) is the estimate of all subscribers ... not HD subscribers. DISH doesn't release workable numbers for the levels or HD penetration so it is hard to guess.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The other downside to using spotbeams for the RSNs is that it would kill the multi-sport package.

IF all the RSNs were on spotbeams, then you would only be able to get your market's RSN... and you couldn't subscribe to a multi-sport to get out-of-market games.

It also wouldn't fix the problem with Center Ice or League Pass, since they would still have to have those feeds on CONUS in order to deliver those to everyone.

The short term solution would be to see just how many more feeds they would need to set aside to offer all the simultaneous games in HD but still not go 24/7 for each RSN.

Could they use 5 more feeds and do that? I don't know. What's the worst case scenario of most-possible HD games for all sports at the same time that they'd need to carry?

IF they could do that, it would be a good compromise until they can get to 24/7 RSNs in the future... IF they ever get there.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If 24/7 RSNs went to spots the existing 12 could be used for League Pass and Center Ice ... 12 would be an improvement over what they are doing on most days. Customers getting their own RSNs in HD is more important than the special packages.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

Are any of the HD RSNs full time? And should they be if others have to miss their game in HD in order for them to air underwater basket-weaving in HD on a non-game day? I know there are quite a few with dedicated channels, but they only seem to air the games as well.


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## SDWC (Dec 14, 2005)

Ours here in Pittsburgh is not a full time HD RSN, but being an avid hockey fan I don't miss Penguins games if at all possible. 

FS Pittsburgh advertises that all 71 of the Penguins games they broadcast will be in HD, and I honestly can't recall one instance in the last two years where Dish has failed to carry the HD feed for one of the games.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

inazsully said:


> But I'm greedy and I want it all. Sorry, but that's the simple truth of the matter.


Don't you think Dish would like to be able to PROVIDE you with "it all"? The simple truth of the matter is that satellite space is limited by several factors, and so both of the satellite providers have to provide less options than they'd like. You know this, and know the pluses and minuses of your provider in this area. Dish can't give you everything, and neither can DirecTV or cable. That isn't likely to change in the foreseeable future either.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> Don't you think Dish would like to be able to PROVIDE you with "it all"? The simple truth of the matter is that satellite space is limited by several factors, and so both of the satellite providers have to provide less options than they'd like. You know this, and know the pluses and minuses of your provider in this area. Dish can't give you everything, and neither can DirecTV or cable. That isn't likely to change in the foreseeable future either.


Of course Dish can improve this situation. Perhaps not giving me/us everything, but close enough. You know this, and know that with spot beams customers can get their own RSN's which as was previously mentioned, is more important then the special packages. The foreseeable future could be right around the corner. So, to answer your first question. NO, I do not think Dish would like PROVIDE me/us with it all.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Again, it comes down to a business decision on how to allocate limited resources, with complications such as contracts and channel packaging that all need to be considered. Dish has made their position on this abundantly clear: they have chosen not to use their bandwidth for RSNs. And while you are, of course, free to share your opinions on this and other matters with whomever you like, the only thing a large company is going to pay any real attention to is their customers voting "with their feet", meaning, leaving for a competitor. As long as you don't, Dish is going to consider you a relatively satisfied customer. It would be no different with any other large company.


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## PhantomOG (Feb 7, 2007)

i'm not totally sure if this is relevant to the thread, but last week when I turned on the tv to see the Texas/Baylor game on FoxSportSW (416), I was sorely disappointed when I saw the the HD channel 416 was off. However, scrolling through the guide a couple pages down I saw Texas/Baylor on one of the HDALT channels. I was surprised to see it was being shown in HD. Very odd that it wasn't on the HD 416 channel like in previous years.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> Again, it comes down to a business decision on how to allocate limited resources, with complications such as contracts and channel packaging that all need to be considered. Dish has made their position on this abundantly clear: they have chosen not to use their bandwidth for RSNs. And while you are, of course, free to share your opinions on this and other matters with whomever you like, the only thing a large company is going to pay any real attention to is their customers voting "with their feet", meaning, leaving for a competitor. As long as you don't, Dish is going to consider you a relatively satisfied customer. It would be no different with any other large company.


You are correct sir. I guess for me "E" is the winning vote but I do hope they hear things other than retreating feet. It's sort of like wanting a big old V8 but also wanting 30mpg city.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

SDWC said:


> Ours here in Pittsburgh is not a full time HD RSN, but being an avid hockey fan I don't miss Penguins games if at all possible.
> 
> FS Pittsburgh advertises that all 71 of the Penguins games they broadcast will be in HD, and I honestly can't recall one instance in the last two years where Dish has failed to carry the HD feed for one of the games.


It must be nice but they have yet to carry a Rockets FSHouston game in HD, and looking ahead I don't see any in the 10 day guide. Maybe they like Pittsburgh more, but I'm pretty sure the market is considerably smaller. I am not sure what factors they use to decide which ones they are going to air.



inazsully said:


> You are correct sir. I guess for me "E" is the winning vote but I do hope they hear things other than retreating feet. It's sort of like wanting a big old V8 but also wanting 30mpg city.


This is kind of my problem. If I thought dish had concern about this and was at least working toward getting them covered, I would probably stick with Dish and wait it out. But honestly it has gotten worse. Since 2008 the HD games carried has actually decreased. The only thing I can reason is that more RSNs have come online in HD since.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

I almost feel bad now, Dish has given me a gift and looks like they are showing not just tonights but also Wed's Rockets game in HD. I'm almost tempted to cancel the install for DirecTV, but I already got a new HD set for back bedroom in anticipation. :eek2:


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

Last year, during college football season, it was a non-issue to me that we only had "part time" RSN's, because every single college game they showed was in HD. Yes, the talking heads between games were only in SD, but every time a game came on, they'd show it in HD.

This year so far? NONE of my conference games, not a single one. I know they are transmitting the games in HD because the highlights later on ESPN are HD, and the announcer always says "Welcome to FSN in stunning HD!" or something, but we get only SD now.

So at least for what I watch, we've gone from part-time HD RSN's, to SD-only RSN's. All we get now on the HD channel is "Check back for when your local team is playing in HD!" Guess what Charlie, THEY ARE.

I admit, this really is the first thing with Dish I've been extremely disappointed with since I got the service years ago.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Welcome to "part time" RSN's.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I am curious just how many more feeds they would need to use to be able to carry all of the games only. I know some others have said the same thing I have... that part-time only RSNs in HD would be mostly fine IF we had all the concurrent live HD games.

For the worst-case scenario of simultaneous games... I wonder how may more channels they would need to add.

That, to me, would be the first leap I'd like to see Dish make in that arena. 24/7 RSNs is something I can wait for IF they could at least get to the point where they are showing all the available games.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I am curious just how many more feeds they would need to use to be able to carry all of the games only. I know some others have said the same thing I have... that part-time only RSNs in HD would be mostly fine IF we had all the concurrent live HD games.


I believe the peak during the overlap of Sunday football and basketball was 60 last year. That would be for DirecTV's 24/7 channels plus alternates pressed into use. There is a very slim chance that one or more of the 24/7 feeds was not playing a game at the peak moment.



> For the worst-case scenario of simultaneous games... I wonder how may more channels they would need to add.


DISH currently has 12 RSN feeds on WA, 11 on EA. They would need ~50 more feeds. They currently have space available for 10 channels on WA, and could use the 21 PPV channels (giving up that revenue). That still leaves DISH ~20 channels short. _*IF*_ DISH were to pack 9 HD channels per transponder instead of the current 8 or less they could increase capacity by 19 channels.

So further compress the channels and throw every ounce of capacity the can get out of the satellites and _maybe_ they could carry every game.

Or put 24/7 HD sports on 61.5 and sell WA people a second DISH to get the extra feeds. DISH needs to get 148 back in to service to protect the license there ... so perhaps we'll get a WA+148 or WA+61.5 service for those not on EA.



> That, to me, would be the first leap I'd like to see Dish make in that arena. 24/7 RSNs is something I can wait for IF they could at least get to the point where they are showing all the available games.


If DISH were to carry the current RSNs full time instead of part time it would be a step. Use the 12 channel capacity for twelve of them and find capacity for 14 more feeds. That would reduce the complaints from those missing the games on the primary RSNs. But they would still come up short in much of the country where the game is always on an ALT.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

I'm pretty sure that every Pacers game other than one has been available to us in HD so far this year and I know last year only a small handful were. It's hard to believe the Pacers get any kind of priority for one of those limited HD feeds since it's hard to imagine they are that big of draw audience-wise since they are in a smaller market and haven't been a very good team the past few years. Maybe we've just been lucky so far and they haven't been playing at the same time as there's been a bunch of other games.


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

James Long said:


> I believe the peak during the overlap of Sunday football and basketball was 60 last year. That would be for DirecTV's 24/7 channels plus alternates pressed into use. There is a very slim chance that one or more of the 24/7 feeds was not playing a game at the peak moment.
> 
> DISH currently has 12 RSN feeds on WA, 11 on EA. They would need ~50 more feeds. They currently have space available for 10 channels on WA, and could use the 21 PPV channels (giving up that revenue). That still leaves DISH ~20 channels short. _*IF*_ DISH were to pack 9 HD channels per transponder instead of the current 8 or less they could increase capacity by 19 channels.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that interesting information. I have wondered that myself. Maybe you can answer a question - would it be possible for Dish to put HD RSN's on Spotbeams? I know it doesn't answer the national HD question for NBA League Pass and NHL Center Ice. But in terms of people who want their RSN 24/7, wouldn't most be satisfied with their specific RSN's in HD Full time (thus ensuring all the games on their RSN's in HD)?


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

If they didn't have so many stupid PPV HD channels!


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

zippyfrog said:


> Thanks for that interesting information. I have wondered that myself. Maybe you can answer a question - would it be possible for Dish to put HD RSN's on Spotbeams? I know it doesn't answer the national HD question for NBA League Pass and NHL Center Ice. But in terms of people who want their RSN 24/7, wouldn't most be satisfied with their specific RSN's in HD Full time (thus ensuring all the games on their RSN's in HD)?


No because the MLB territories are too huge.


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## butters (Sep 25, 2007)

I believe the issue with putting RSNs on spotbeams would be for those that subscribed to the sports package. You would need them to be on a conus feed if someone not in the spotbeam subscribed to the sports pack. And possibly MLB, NBA and NHL depending on what channels they were broadcast on. Either that or they would have to broadcast them on both spotbeams and a conus feed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

zippyfrog said:


> Maybe you can answer a question - would it be possible for Dish to put HD RSN's on Spotbeams?


Possible, but the beams would have to cover entire RSN markets AND not be needed for local channels. At the moment DISH needs the spotbeam capacity for local market carriage (including channels not broadcast in HD but required to have space set aside to be carried in HD if they ever decide to do so).

There might be an appropriate mix of ConUS and spotbeam possible, especially when it comes to the offshoot RSNs like FS Indiana and FS Wisconsin which are normally carried by DISH on alternate channels but could be put on a local channel spotbeam and reach their entire market.



ehren said:


> If they didn't have so many stupid PPV HD channels!


41 PPV channels _HELP_ DirecTV carry all the games in HD. On those peak days they use most of their PPV capacity to fill in the gap between the 27 full time RSNs and the ~60 needed feeds. Having 41 channels gives them the ability to continue offering HD PPVs on a few channels even when maxed out on sports.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> I believe the peak during the overlap of Sunday football and basketball was 60 last year.


Sunday (NFL) football is never on RSNs, it's all locked up between CBS and Fox, then the night game on NBC. They do play college football on the RSNs though, and the times when I was missing most of the games in HD were when NHL, NBA and MLB overlapped, at both ends of seasons. I've been switched less than two weeks, but I have already seen 3 HD games I wouldn't have if I was still with dish.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Directv uses its PPV channels for NFL sunday ticket.. Does Dish ever use their PPV temporary like DIrectv for sports HD Games?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Directv uses its PPV channels for NFL sunday ticket.. Does Dish ever use their PPV temporary like DIrectv for sports HD Games?


No. They do schedule PPV movies on their PPV sports channel (454) when it is not needed for sports or specials on channel 101. But the 21 HD PPV channels are HD PPV channels full time.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

James Long said:


> No. They do schedule PPV movies on their PPV sports channel (454) when it is not needed for sports or specials on channel 101. But the 21 HD PPV channels are HD PPV channels full time.


I know one thing. Last Saturday FSN Arizona showed exactly zero games in HD. My thoughts? We are 10 years into the 21st century. Anybody can connect to the internet from a stinkin cell phone. You can watch all your favorite TV shows online. I see today a 32" HD TV for $249.99. I see a major brand blu-ray player for $60. Why in the world are we subjected to ANY SD broadcasts?


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## PhantomOG (Feb 7, 2007)

ZBoomer said:


> This year so far? NONE of my conference games, not a single one. I know they are transmitting the games in HD because the highlights later on ESPN are HD, and the announcer always says "Welcome to FSN in stunning HD!" or something, but we get only SD now.


Z, are you talking about Big 12 Football games? Did you see my post above? It seems like no one did....

For some reason, this year, it seems like the HD version of Fox SW channel 416 does not show ANY HD at all. However, if you page down (up in numbers) from 416, there are channels labeled HDALT. Every single Big 12 game I've watched this year has been in HD on the HDALT channels. I have no idea why FOXSW is not showing HD on its channel, but instead on some HDALT channel, but I think most people don't know about this.

Did anyone find any of their games in the HDALT section? It seems to me there is lots of stuff there that maybe no one knows about???


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

I have been VERY, disappointed in the HD content this year of the Multisports package.
This year seems like there is hardly any HD content.


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

PhantomOG said:


> Z, are you talking about Big 12 Football games? Did you see my post above? It seems like no one did....
> 
> For some reason, this year, it seems like the HD version of Fox SW channel 416 does not show ANY HD at all. However, if you page down (up in numbers) from 416, there are channels labeled HDALT. Every single Big 12 game I've watched this year has been in HD on the HDALT channels. I have no idea why FOXSW is not showing HD on its channel, but instead on some HDALT channel, but I think most people don't know about this.
> 
> Did anyone find any of their games in the HDALT section? It seems to me there is lots of stuff there that maybe no one knows about???


Yeah, the season is essentially over, and FSSW (416) didn't show a SINGLE college game this year in HD that I noticed; compared to last year, when I think every game was in HD.

I even have the sports package where I get every RSN and sports channel, and I haven't seen anything on these ALT feeds you mention, and believe me, I look every time. I haven't seen ANY RSN's show any HD college games, just the stupid "Check back if your favorite team is playing in HD!" placard.

What arc are you, west or east? Wonder if that matters? I'm currently viewing 110, 119, and 129.

I basically have SD RSN's now, WTF? Football is the one thing that benefits most from HD, but instead we're giving HD bandwidth to stupid talking head channels like MSNBC, CNN, etc., as well as channels with almost zero HD content, ala MTV HD, VH1 HD, CMT HD, etc. These jokers can't even figure out how to show a video in HD, and they are supposed to be "HD" channels. If you want to see an HD video you have to watch Paladia aftere 2am.

Like I mentioned above, I was OK with part-time RSN's when they showed the games in HD, but they no longer do.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

It's hard to comprehend how "E", from a marketing standpoint, can be so brilliantly forward thinking to champion "Free HD for Life" and yet continue to bumble along offering no RSN HD 24/7. I understand their challenges in doing this but brilliant is as brilliant does. Ya just gotta find a way. Several suggestions have been mentioned but fall on deaf ears.


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

PhantomOG said:


> Z, are you talking about Big 12 Football games? Did you see my post above? It seems like no one did....
> 
> For some reason, this year, it seems like the HD version of Fox SW channel 416 does not show ANY HD at all. However, if you page down (up in numbers) from 416, there are channels labeled HDALT. Every single Big 12 game I've watched this year has been in HD on the HDALT channels. I have no idea why FOXSW is not showing HD on its channel, but instead on some HDALT channel, but I think most people don't know about this.
> 
> Did anyone find any of their games in the HDALT section? It seems to me there is lots of stuff there that maybe no one knows about???


You HAVE to check the ALT channels. CH 444 (plus or minus a channel or two in either direction) would always seem to have the HD feed for the FOX game that would be the "same" on numerous RSNs. E* is not going to waste bandwidth providing each region with it's own unique HD feed when one feed (open to all) is all that's needed.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

epokopac said:


> You HAVE to check the ALT channels. CH 444 (plus or minus a channel or two in either direction) would always seem to have the HD feed for the FOX game that would be the "same" on numerous RSNs. E* is not going to waste bandwidth providing each region with it's own unique HD feed when one feed (open to all) is all that's needed.


All that's needed for what? RSN's in HD?


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

inazsully said:


> All that's needed for what? RSN's in HD?


Example:

While scrolling thru the RSNs on a Saturday during the college football season you may see something like a Kansas vs. Colorado game available on just about every Fox RSN. The SD feed is available on each RSN (doesn't take lots of bandwith), but providing the corresponding HD feed on each RSN would eat up bandwith in a hurry. The game usually IS available in HD, it's just that you have to scroll to the ALT channels and look for the one channel it's being shown on in HD. Most of the times that I've tuned in the ALT HD feed it's the FS HOUSTON feed. Can't say that I've ever encountered any blackout issues either. Not sure if having or not having the Multi Sports Pack factors into the equation or not. Hope this makes things a bit clearer.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Since the part-time RSNs are simply remaps of 12 HD channels that may carry games it would not be hard for DISH to map all the RSNs to a single channel. Perhaps FS would rather have their feeds on an alt instead of showing up on multiple in market feeds with the wrong logo in the corner.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Adding useless channels like Sony Movie HD and this Plex HD doesn't help getting more HD for local sports. With sports atleast the scores are never the same, unlike these movie channels that repeat movies 20 times a week


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## PhantomOG (Feb 7, 2007)

ZBoomer said:


> Yeah, the season is essentially over, and FSSW (416) didn't show a SINGLE college game this year in HD that I noticed; compared to last year, when I think every game was in HD.
> 
> What arc are you, west or east? Wonder if that matters? I'm currently viewing 110, 119, and 129.


Z, I'm in Austin too. EVERY single NCAA football game I caught on FSSW this year was in HD (not just Big 12), just NOT on the FSSW HD channel. I had to page down several times from the FSSW channel and found them somewhere else.

I have all those sat + 61.5 or whatever the other one is. When the HD local's in Austin first went on they required a second dish which I have. Don't know if I need it any more, but if that's the reason I'm getting HD FSSW I'm definitely keeping it!!!

Also, I don't have the sports package. I only get FSSW.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

ehren said:


> Adding useless channels like Sony Movie HD and this Plex HD doesn't help getting more HD for local sports. With sports atleast the scores are never the same, unlike these movie channels that repeat movies 20 times a week


You hit the nail dead on. Of course who cares about common sense?


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Baylor/Minnesota Women's basketball promo on FSN South tonight says game Sunday at 1pm is in HD, is it on Dish? HELL NO!!!!!!!


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

Well hell; it would have been NICE for them to put a banner, logo, SOME KIND OF NOTICE on the regular HD channel (FSSW HD for example) to look for the game on an ALT channel. I guess we have to pick up this info by osmosis or telepathy.

I agree, if they are playing the same game across multiple RSN's, it makes sense to only show it once on a single channel, but how about changing that "Check back to see if your favorite team is playing in HD!" banner to "This game is being show in HD on ALT channel xxx."

How freaking difficult would that be?


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

That is an excellent observation. It would certainly be much appreciated as would some kind of heads up when they are having a free preview weekend. I mean an obvious heads up that jumps out and says "hey hey guess what we have for you".


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