# Bug Report L188: Conglomeration of all OTA bugs.......



## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

According to the polls for L187/L188, around 2/3rds of "respondents" are still having OTA problems. Unfortunately, we don't know how big a demographic the "respondents" are with regards to all shipped 921 boxes.

OTA problems are a different beast than other problems. The user can usually define a reproduceable scenario that can be tested and repeated at Eldon when timers don't fire, etc.. With the OTA stuff, this isn't the case. We can tell them we get the "Channel x.x not found" message. We can tell them we get a black screen. We can tell them that no PSIP stream is being transmitted. Other than that, we can't tell them "why" we can't receive the station. So, we send them info on how to contact the station which may or may not lead to information depending on who Eldon contacts.

According to users in the Denver area, Eldon has done a good job at working through the OTA problems. That is because they have some engineers looking at the signals in that market. It was hoped that fixing problems in Denver would help to fix problems in other markets. No doubt they have, but a number of problems still exist in other markets.

We end users do our best, but it doesn't seem that helpful to say we see a black screen. It would be effective if Dish sent engineers to other problematic markets. Plane tickets aren't that expensive, but one would wonder how many places would have to be visited before all of the scenarios have been looked at.

It seems like a good idea to let the 921s call Eldon and send in bug reports for OTA issues. Data from all of the markets would come in without traveling anywhere. It might be enough feedback to help speed up the maturation cycle.

I'm thinking the 921 could either send reports automatically, or have the user press an unused button on the remote (such as the red "Dish" button), or have preferences setup in a menu to enable/disable the bug reporting feature. The paranoid user can always unplug the phone line, right?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Given how obviously difficult it is for the engineers to get the 921 OTA problems solved as it is, I think asking the engineers to add additional complicated code to the 921 to perform this self reporting is well, frankly crazy. The last thing I want them to do is to spend time adding and then debugging this code instead of working on the real problems.

I'm going to guess that if there are 100 OTA problems reported, they are caused by only a handful of individual problems. I'd bet that if the engineers would set up shop in about 5 large cities with reported problems and could isolate and fix those problems, it would solve the vast majority of reported problems. Then they could clean up the few remaining problems. To me that makes so much more sense and be a much more productive use of their time then crapping around adding code to the 921 that will take forever to debug and probably produce more problems than it solves.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I like this concept. Kind of like windows XP with software issues. If isolated codes that cause the problem are identified, I think that the software engineers may be better equipped in trouble shooting and solving problems. I wish I could get the engineers to come to my home so I could show them my 921 problems, first hand. We could even watch a ball game in HD and drink a brew or two.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

The code has already been written. The 921 can already dial out and order a movie or something like that. It can also dial out once a month to say "I'm here, the customer isn't giving his neighbor a $5/mo subscription". There is no problem with having it dial out and sending part of a PSIP data stream or an MPEG data stream or both, along with the boot , flash, and software versions along with display preferences, etc.. It just uses existing routines to dial out and send the message.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

boylehome said:


> I like this concept. Kind of like windows XP with software issues. If isolated codes that cause the problem are identified, I think that the software engineers may be better equipped in trouble shooting and solving problems. I wish I could get the engineers to come to my home so I could show them my 921 problems, first hand. We could even watch a ball game in HD and drink a brew or two.


Good idea! Just make sure you bring out the beers *after* they look at the problem! :goodjob:


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Good idea! Just make sure you bring out the beers *after* they look at the problem! :goodjob:


OK, but they may be more willing to take a few risks when intoxicated. :grin:


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

The phone home to report a bug idea is nice, but can be complicated to implement (I wrote some stuff like that back i the '80s). If it doesn't already exist in the 921 - AND at the other end, in other words, if it's anything more than just allowing us to use something that is in the box now, I say don't waste any time on it.

That being said, the function SHOULD already be in there.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

I'm going to agree with Jerry G, so I think you need another option in your poll: "No. Eldon has more important things to spend their time on." 

I have never had any problems with the OTA stations I want to watch (Washington, DC market) and would rather they work on getting OTA guide data enabled.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Amen 4HIMARKS, get us the guide data and locals on our favorite list(which we had once). I'll bet a lot of local problem is due to bad set up of, antenna, receiver, cabling etc. I have no problems in Tampa. I can get and record at least twenty ota hd stations. Please get us guide data.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

deweybrunner said:


> Amen 4HIMARKS, get us the guide data and locals on our favorite list(which we had once). I'll bet a lot of local problem is due to bad set up of, antenna, receiver, cabling etc. I have no problems in Tampa. I can get and record at least twenty ota hd stations. Please get us guide data.


that may be the issue for some as you say. I know of a couple of us, that were very happy back about L182. Then L184 came along and we could not longer record our favorite channel. Nothing at the station changed so it had to be something in the upgrade. They will get it fixed sooner or later, I dont mind having the option to send bug rpt long as addition of code doesnt affect something else.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

4HiMarks said:


> I'm going to agree with Jerry G, so I think you need another option in your poll: "No. Eldon has more important things to spend their time on."


Whoops! My Error! I wasn't thinking along those lines when I made the poll, unfortunately, it doesn't appear you can add an option after it starts. Sorry.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Option added.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Option added.


That's great! Thanks!


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## djdj (Jul 27, 2004)

boylehome said:


> I like this concept. Kind of like windows XP with software issues. If isolated codes that cause the problem are identified, I think that the software engineers may be better equipped in trouble shooting and solving problems. I wish I could get the engineers to come to my home so I could show them my 921 problems, first hand. We could even watch a ball game in HD and drink a brew or two.


I heard from a very reliable source that Microsoft was able to eliminate 80% of the errors that generated crash reports in WinXP with just a couple of small bug fixes as a direct result of the error reporting mechanism. As a software developer, I implemented a similar feature into my own software, and was finally able to get my hands on enough information to track down and fix the problems. Again, more than 80% of the errors were eliminated.

If E* has the same type of reporting mechanism, I would expect we could see the same kind of results with our 921s.


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