# Duo Receiver Question



## shane333 (Jan 8, 2010)

I know the ideal setup is 2 coax cables to a DUO tuner. If 1 coax is run to a DUO tuner, using a diplexer to allow the use of tv2, will there be a noticeable signal loss?


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

I don't get any. With digital, it's all or nothing anyway.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

shane333 said:


> I know the ideal setup is 2 coax cables to a DUO tuner. If 1 coax is run to a DUO tuner, using a diplexer to allow the use of tv2, will there be a noticeable signal loss?


If you are using a quality diplexers and your cable is less than 150 ft you should be alright. Yes, at every connection and device introduced into the signal path you will have some loss. As long as you are within the threshold you will do just fine. It is very important that quality products and installation techniques are used to insure signal integrity. A bad or poorly installed fitting will have much more signal loss and interference than a good quality diplexer.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Just to make sure no one is confused...

You can't just use diplexers to "split" the signal for a duo receiver.

You need to use the Dish Pro Plus Separator. Technically it is not exactly a splitter or a diplexer, as it does some other things to allow a single feed to run both SAT tuners.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Just to make sure no one is confused...
> 
> You can't just use diplexers to "split" the signal for a duo receiver.
> 
> You need to use the Dish Pro Plus Separator. Technically it is not exactly a splitter or a diplexer, as it does some other things to allow a single feed to run both SAT tuners.


Technically, a diplexor is EXACTLY what the Separator is. Early separators actually had diplexor printed on them. A diplexor simply separates / combines two different frequency ranges. The separator for a duo happens to split into < 1550 MHz (1) and > 1550 MHz (2). The most common usage of "diplexer" with regard to DBS is to separate < 950 MHz and > 950 MHz.

The seperator I took out of a 722 box was in fact a triplexor with < 950 MHz and the two tuner 1/2 frequencies on the other two legs. The coax connection of the three combined frequencies went out to the dish.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

I was just trying to give a simple answer. I was assuming the separator was in place to begin with. You are correct about the DP separator it is a very specialized diplexer and it must be present. The LNB sends two distinct signals, one at 950-1450Mhz and one for the second tuner 1650-2150Mhz. These signals need to be separated with a DPP Separator before they are brought in to the dual tuner receiver. So at this point we have 2 signals traveling down the same line. Now to send the TV2 signal back through the same line we need to introduce the diplexer. (if you have the new "triplexer" things will be a lot easier. I love those things) The lower frequency signal coming from the TV2 signal is roughly somewhere between 500Mhz and 850Mhz (I am giving an educated guess on the frequency.) depending on what channel you are using. Since this frequency range does not overlap with the signals already in the line there should be no interference. In the room where the Duo receiver is the diplexer will be the first device connected to the cable from the LNB. The RF or Air side of the diplexer needs to be connected to the TV2 output on the receiver with a short cable jumper. The power passing/ satellite side will be connected to the DP separator. The DP separator will be connected to the two satellite inputs with the included RG6 jumpers.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

So what is the benefit of the Triplexer?Please Forgive my tech ignorance.


Guess I would need a drawing because I cannot see if you hookup the satellite's single coax where it says Sat-1 and Sat-2,then you would connect the third hookup to the Home Distribution F connector,how would the signal get to the second TV?.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think the OP needs to clarify his question.

He sounds like he is asking about using a dual-tuner receiver with just 1 feed... and then a diplexer to feed TV2.

But what is he really asking?

Is he asking if he can use a dual-tuner receiver with just 1 feed?
Is he asking if he can use a diplexer to split that feed to connect to both tuners?
Is he asking about a back-feed of the modulated output?


Some have had mixed results with only connecting 1 tuner feed to a dual-tuner receiver. It really is not meant to be ran that way... but in some cases apparently you can get away with it depending on how you use your receiver.

You can't use a standard diplexer to split the SAT feed to both SAT tuners. For that you need the DPP separator.

Independent of the SAT connection discussion... he can use diplexers to backfeed the TV2 modulated output to another TV in his house.

But I'm not sure what his real question was at this point.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

Jhon69 said:


> So what is the benefit of the Triplexer?Please Forgive my tech ignorance.
> 
> Guess I would need a drawing because I cannot see if you hookup the satellite's single coax where it says Sat-1 and Sat-2,then you would connect the third hookup to the Home Distribution F connector,how would the signal get to the second TV?.


I will be coming up with a drawing shortly but here are pics of the devices I am talking about.

[Images Below - left to right]

Diplexer

Using a Diplexer and Separator VS using a triplexer

Separator

Triplexer

[Mod Edit: Huge image removed ... see attached photos]


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

Holy cow! I didn't mean to make those images so HUGE!


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

Jhon69 said:


> So what is the benefit of the Triplexer?Please Forgive my tech ignorance.
> 
> Guess I would need a drawing because I cannot see if you hookup the satellite's single coax where it says Sat-1 and Sat-2,then you would connect the third hookup to the Home Distribution F connector,how would the signal get to the second TV?.


Here is the back of a "Duo" receiver. This is a Dish 322. On the far left are the two satellite inputs. The two leads from the DP Separator will connect to these ports. The yellow connection that reads "CH 21-69 Out" is the TV2 coax output. This will connect to the VHF/UHF or TV side of the Diplexer or Triplexer.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

Here is a diagram of how it all comes together. Keep in mind you can use the triplexer instead of combining the diplexer and the separator behind the receiver.


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## shane333 (Jan 8, 2010)

My question was can I feed a duo tuner with only 1 coax. I see that it is possible. 

Another question. If I feed a duo tuner with 2 coax cables, will that eliminate all the splitters?

Thanks for all the help!


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Thank you wallfisher for your patience and the pictures.


See I thought all those connections were supposed be done without a separator or diplexer?

When the installer installed my 722k/w MT2 there is just the Triplexer there behind the DVR,but I do have a separate coax coming in for my outdoor antenna.

So I just could not visualize the result of connecting just the Triplexer to the Home Distribution output and the signal making it's way to TV2,because like it is it looks like the signal from the Home Distribution output would go back to the satellite dish.I also have a separate coax coming out of the Home Distribution output to TV2.

So wallfisher again Thanks for your patience and the pictures and diagrams.
It makes sense to me now.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

shane333 said:


> My question was can I feed a duo tuner with only 1 coax. I see that it is possible.
> 
> Another question. If I feed a duo tuner with 2 coax cables, will that eliminate all the splitters?
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


By what I understand you would need the correct LNB for that so you need to double check and make sure the LNB you have will do what you want it to.If you have the owner's manual for your receiver there is a section in it concerning connections for your receiver,or you can also download it from the Dish Network website.


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## shane333 (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't have any dish setup as of yet. I do have the ability at this time to add a second coax from where the dish will be installed. Was just wondering if the 1 coax would work. I think I will add the second coax.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

An extra coax is never a bad thing! A standard dish 1000.x has 3 outputs that can feed up to 3 receivers. It is OK to just use two of those outputs to feed each tuner with a direct line - you can only feed 1 other receiver with the remaining output though.

I'd never seen the triplexer before Monday, but we wanted to use it for a different purpose than thewallfisher's diagram. Instead of connecting a backfeed to another room, the OTA antenna comes IN with the sat signals and the connection at the receiver goes to the Antenna In instead of Home Dist. The Home Dist output can be combined with the Antenna (precautions needed to not send it TO the antenna) and the combined signal sent on the RG59 the guy already had wired for cable going to the other rooms. That saved the DNS guys (by the way, they were very impressive) having to backfeed two duos.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

thewallfisher said:


> I was just trying to give a simple answer. I was assuming the separator was in place to begin with. You are correct about the DP separator it is a very specialized diplexer and it must be present. *The LNB sends two distinct signals, one at 950-1450Mhz and one for the second tuner 1650-2150Mhz. * These signals need to be separated with a DPP Separator before they are brought in to the dual tuner receiver. So at this point we have 2 signals traveling down the same line. Now to send the TV2 signal back through the same line we need to introduce the diplexer. (if you have the new "triplexer" things will be a lot easier. I love those things) The lower frequency signal coming from the TV2 signal is roughly somewhere between 500Mhz and 850Mhz (I am giving an educated guess on the frequency.) depending on what channel you are using. Since this frequency range does not overlap with the signals already in the line there should be no interference. In the room where the Duo receiver is the diplexer will be the first device connected to the cable from the LNB. The RF or Air side of the diplexer needs to be connected to the TV2 output on the receiver with a short cable jumper. The power passing/ satellite side will be connected to the DP separator. The DP separator will be connected to the two satellite inputs with the included RG6 jumpers.


Should be:
"The *DP *LNB sends two distinct signals, one at 950-1450Mhz and one for the second tuner 1650-2150Mhz. "


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

P Smith said:


> Should be:
> "The *DP *LNB sends two distinct signals, one at 950-1450Mhz and one for the second tuner 1650-2150Mhz. "


It's actually a *DPP* (Dish Pro Plus) not a *DP* (Dish Pro). The Dish Pro Does not have the stacked signal.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

Jhon69 said:


> Thank you wallfisher for your patience and the pictures.
> 
> See I thought all those connections were supposed be done without a separator or diplexer?
> 
> ...


That is the best way to do it. When you are dealing with the UHF/VHF signals associated with your home distribution and your off air antenna you will have less problems with signal loss if you use dedicated cables for each one. Diplexers and splitters are great for reducing installation cost and time by allowing the installer to use the existing single coax that is already in the residence. In most cases it is adequate.

When I am doing a custom install where I am able to freely run wire (and the customer is willing to pay the extra cost) I will run a dedicated line to TV2 or the home distribution with Solid Copper Quad Shield RG6. (Solid Copper isn't necessarily needed here but it is what I use.) The signal coming from the TV2 connection is analog and any interference or signal loss will be seen on the TV. The same goes for Off Air Antennas. You want to protect that signal with everything you can especially if you are trying to get channels from far away or if there is a lot of interference in the area.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

thewallfisher said:


> It's actually a *DPP* (Dish Pro Plus) not a *DP* (Dish Pro). The Dish Pro Does not have the stacked signal.


Actually the DP has a stacked signal but the second signal is the opposite polarity from the same satellite and it is intended for the same tuner. DPP can stack either polarity from any LNB input, allowing two tuners on one receiver to share the same coax.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

thewallfisher said:


> It's actually a *DPP* (Dish Pro Plus) not a *DP* (Dish Pro). The Dish Pro Does not have the stacked signal.


Again wrong (DOUBLE) - DPP is switching technology, not related to LNBF (some dishes has internal DPP switch inside), and DP LNBF doing exactly STACKING.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

James Long said:


> Actually the DP has a stacked signal but the second signal is the opposite polarity from the same satellite and it is intended for the same tuner. DPP can stack either polarity from any LNB input, allowing two tuners on one receiver to share the same coax.


I stand corrected.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

shane333 said:


> I don't have any dish setup as of yet. I do have the ability at this time to add a second coax from where the dish will be installed. Was just wondering if the 1 coax would work. I think I will add the second coax.


A second coax will not be used in the installation. In the grand scheme, if you're going to run extra cable, run extra Ethernet cabling.

Understand that any limitations on cable length come from the cable's ability to carry the current necessary to power the LNB assembly. The RF signal should have no problem going significantly greater distances than are normally supported.


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## shane333 (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm confused now. Let me start over. If I have a DuoDVR ViP 722k receiver and want to operate tv1 and tv2 from it. How many coax cables will I need from the dish to the receiver? The dish will be whatever they install to go along with the receiver. Thanks!


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

One.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

1 cable from Dish/LNB to the 722 / 722K / 622 / 222 / 222K. Put a DishProPlus seperator (basically a higher frequency diplexer) and you can drive both satellite tuners.

If you want to watch TV2 at another location - this is where it gets interesting - 

A- run a dedicated coax from the RF distribution port to whatever TVs
B- use the triplexer (or the Dish separator / standard diplexer) along with another standard diplexer . At the OTA port of the diplexer - do just like A.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

On a related note, I am getting FiOS TV installed later this month. I do not plan to give up my Dish at this time, but since I am already paying for FiOS phone and Internet it only adds about $20 to my bill, so I figured why not. 

So my question is, can I diplex, or otherwise combine, the FiOS signal(s) on any coax with either a Dish feed from the LNB, TV2 distribution, or OTA antenna signal? 

I currently have an Eastern Arc setup with a 1000.4 (?) dish feeding a switch (not sure of the model, but I think it has 3 in/4 out) with 2 outputs going to a 622. One of them is diplexed with the OTA antenna and the other is diplexed with the TV2 signal which I then feed into a home distro amp. I have additional RG6 runs already in place if needed. 

I am getting a Multi-room DVR free for a year from FiOS, but I am not paying for any additional STBs. There is supposedly an RF out (on channel 3/4) I hope to combine with my Dish TV2 signal though. The local channels are supposed to be clear QAM.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

4HiMarks said:


> So my question is, can I diplex, or otherwise combine, the FiOS signal(s) on any coax with either a Dish feed from the LNB, TV2 distribution, or OTA antenna signal?


NO!


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

If you can run more cables to the dish and to the TV2 location from your receiver location than do it. Its always better to use a cable for every feed than to worry about diplexers and triplexers. Xtra cable can never hurt you, especially if down the road you want to add more receivers. Can it be done/work with 1 cable, yes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

shadough said:


> Its always better to use a cable for every feed than to worry about diplexers and triplexers.


Yet, the overwhelming evidence is that even if you have an abundance of cables, an installer will only use one. I'm guessing that this because switches have a higher failure rate than separators.

Most new dishes are DPP so defeating that so that you can use more cables seems pointless.


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## thewallfisher (Feb 1, 2011)

"harsh" said:


> Yet, the overwhelming evidence is that even if you have an abundance of cables, an installer will only use one. I'm guessing that this because switches have a higher failure rate than separators.
> 
> Most new dishes are DPP so defeating that so that you can use more cables seems pointless.


I completely agree. The only time I use separate cables is when when signal quality to TV2 or from off air is a factor.


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