# HD Reciever Choices/ What's HOT!- What's NOT!



## parlyle (Dec 19, 2003)

I really am in a bit of a quandry as to what is the most reliable High Def reciever that E* has to offer. I was leaning towards the 921, but do to the posts that have preceded the coming of the holy reciever, I am somewhat dismayed by the whole unit. Is there someone out there that can give me the skinny as to what to expect with the other recievers that they have to offer? I really don't need to have the recording features, as I think I can use a dreaded VCR if I have to have something archived. I will have my trusty 510 to backup anything that I need fast. Please, Help, I am going to purchase a HDTV shortly and would like to be able to view something in the HighDef range. ( I can get Twin Cities HD from where I live, so thats a treat that I can probably look forward to.) My problem is "What to bring it in with" :new_popco 
Thanks for the response!!!!!


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

The 921 is a DVR/HD receiver. If you don't want DVR functions, certainly don't get this box. Dish still offers the 811 and 6000U (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/hd/index.shtml). I've looked on eBay and found lots of 6000u models out there...


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

From what I understand you can get the 811 for existing customers for $149 with a 1 year agreement to the HD package. yea the 811 has a few bugs as well but for $149....

I have a 6000 that works perfectly, has excellent aspect ratio controls but,its sloooow and has no PIG function. 6000's are still fetching a premium for some reason on eBay.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I would suggest you switch to Directv and get a HD directivo. It was just released and from what I've heard it works flawlessly. Meanwhile, the 921 just got discontinued because of how horrible it was.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

The 921 has not been discontinued. My 921 works great. Perhaps not "flawlessly" as HD-TIVO purportedly does but it still works great and I would buy it again in a heartbeat.



skaeight said:


> I would suggest you switch to Directv and get a HD directivo. It was just released and from what I've heard it works flawlessly. Meanwhile, the 921 just got discontinued because of how horrible it was.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

skaeight said:


> I would suggest you switch to Directv and get a HD directivo. It was just released and from what I've heard it works flawlessly. Meanwhile, the 921 just got discontinued because of how horrible it was.


Hey, a D* employee.....

How ARE things over there since Rupert took over? Has he decided when he is eliminating the commercial skip function and instituting expiration dates on recordings like he said he would earlier this year?

Jeez..... The 921 is NOT discontinued..... If you want to lob grenades at the bugs and crashes, feel free, but try to keep the false info to a minimum please. (BTW, Rupert DID say those things I referenced earlier in my post so I'm not stooping to responding to falsehoods with similar inaccuracies)


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## Bob Trapp (Feb 18, 2003)

Doesn't seem like a big difference between discontinued and unavailable for months.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Discontinued means NO new ones are to be manufactured. A hold for a few months to correct an unforeseen hardware problem is not the same thing. 

Granted, after 18 months of development SOMEONE should have found this bug sooner.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Funny how HD tivo just works...


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## Guest (May 6, 2004)

skaeight said:


> Funny how HD tivo just works...


man o man the pittsburgh pirates look just dandy on e*


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Un-man said:


> man o man the pittsburgh pirates look just dandy on e*


I don't think the pirates look dandy anywhere right now...


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

Bob Trapp said:


> Doesn't seem like a big difference between discontinued and unavailable for months.


Bob, Discontinued means just that you will NOT EVER be able to get that receiver, unavailable is a temporay condition the result of hardware shortages or other temporary conditions.

John


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## sleepy hollow (Aug 25, 2003)

ibglowin said:


> The 921 has not been discontinued. My 921 works great. Perhaps not "flawlessly" as HD-TIVO purportedly does but it still works great and I would buy it again in a heartbeat.


I would add that Dish has a better overall HD picture (more bandwidth with less compression as I understand it, but if I am mistaken, I have no doubt some kind soul will correct me) and more HD selections than DirecTV.

On the other hand, HD content is still behind where it should be. I am sort of curious as to why the networks have so few shows in HD. There are certainly more than a few, but sporting events are a big disappointment. Those should be pretty straightforward.

As for the 921, does what I expected it to, and I love the HD. Very few crashes, (<6 since Feb). No significant problems except that I really would like to be able to archive digitally from the hard drive. I hope Dish comes up with a solution. I'd have no problem buying a removable media accessory drive for the empty bay, but I suppose that's not even on the radar scope just yet.

Putting it all in perspective, apparently only 2% of all TV viewers have HD - that is, actually see HD. In addition, of those who have HD-ready sets, a very small portion actually see HD, not sure what the number was, but well under half. So, for all of the naysayers out there, they are squeaking/whining/pouting with the best effeminate effect to a very select group of rather independent-minded folks who pretty much understand that they are well ahead of the pack, in largely uncharted waters. Dish's problems with the 921 are relatively small. The real mistake Dish made was to build anticipation too soon. That's pretty much it. The rest is merely engineering. Emotions will have very little effect on the engineering task ahead. They'll gut it out and get it done.

I know many are rooting for the engineers to accidently download an update that causes the satellites to explode and our 921's to suddenly confess that this was all part of a conspiracy that has something to do with blood for oil and Area 51, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Dish is a viable and well managed business for the most part, certainly better than MCI, say. If you are interested in getting HD, then you should simply shop around and get educated. Very important when taking the plunge to join the 2% of us pioneers that you get some command of the info, since you are about to become an expert in a domain you probably never thought you would (or even wanted to).

Good luck. I for one am still of the opinion that the 921 is well worth the price.

In 1900, the price of a long distance call cross country was about $12. The average income was about $400 per year. that made the call 12/400 or 3% of income. So, that ONE call cost thousands of dollars in todays terms. I wonder how good the quality was? Yet there were people who paid the $12. And if they had not, we would not now have 5 cent per minute calls (in today's terms, or a fraction of a fraction of a cent in 1900 dollars) and expect nothing but perfection in the sound quality.

That's just how it works folks, reality that is. The glass is more than half full when considering the 921.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

sleepy hollow said:


> I would add that Dish has a better overall HD picture (more bandwidth with less compression as I understand it, but if I am mistaken, I have no doubt some kind soul will correct me) and more HD selections than DirecTV.
> 
> On the other hand, HD content is still behind where it should be. I am sort of curious as to why the networks have so few shows in HD. There are certainly more than a few, but sporting events are a big disappointment. Those should be pretty straightforward.


You are right about the PQ. Echostar's 8PSK modulation for HDTV channels is more efficient than the QPSK used by DirecTV, allowing them to get a full 19.8Mbit with two HD channels/transponder rather than needing to compress down to 15.9Mbit as DirecTV does. You are wrong about selection though. Since DirecTV added CBS-HD to their lineup, both providers offer essentially the same HD channels. The only difference is Dish's HD demo channel, but unless you are a retailer, that gets old real fast.

As for the speed at which network sports broadcasts are being upgraded to high definition - remember that HDTV cameras are expensive. And most sporting events require lots of cameras. Which is why they tend to use them on the blockbuster events like the Superbowl, Final four, Masters, Kentucky Derby, etc, but not for regular games. Dramas like CSI are much easier to do in HD, since they are shot on film. Switching those show to HD is just a matter of using a high def telecine machine (instead of a standard def one) when converting the film to video prior to broadcast.


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## parlyle (Dec 19, 2003)

sleepy hollow said:


> I would add that Dish has a better overall HD picture (more bandwidth with less compression as I understand it, but if I am mistaken, I have no doubt some kind soul will correct me) and more HD selections than DirecTV.
> 
> On the other hand, HD content is still behind where it should be. I am sort of curious as to why the networks have so few shows in HD. There are certainly more than a few, but sporting events are a big disappointment. Those should be pretty straightforward.
> 
> ...


When I finished reading this post, I took a deep breath. And then I really felt that I had read the most positive missive I had read on any of these forums in a long time. Thank you for the information. This is what I wanted to hear. Good report! I was leaning toward the 921, and from this message, I still am going that direction, but I really don't need the recording of High Def, I have a 510 that may come into use for that,even tho its SD. I still have an incling to go for an 811. I have not heard as much rangling about that reciever as I have about the 921. I realize that all of the HD recievers are going thru growing pains, and it's just a matter of time when they will all come of age, but the question is, What do I want (need) to put up with at this moment? I have been with E* since it started, (was leaning to Primestar before) and am willing to tough it out with them. It's just a matter of how long can we be patient with them to make the right decisions? As for now, I can say that when I choose the reciever that will be the backbone of my system, it will be from E* and not D*. :icon_band


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Don't forget that the 921 is a dual tuner. Once you use one, you'll never go back.


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## sleepy hollow (Aug 25, 2003)

Bichon said:


> You are wrong about selection though. Since DirecTV added CBS-HD to their lineup, both providers offer essentially the same HD channels. The only difference is Dish's HD demo channel, but unless you are a retailer, that gets old real fast.


Thanks for the correction. I was not counting the demo channel of course.

Though how about NBATV? It's supposed to be HD, though I cannot say I have ever seen any HD there. Not that that would make any difference either.

Your analysis of the sports problem is great and leads me to believe that the nets are simply slow rolling HD. Ironic that a key attraction that propelled TV over theater in the 50s and 60s was it's "live" content among other things (remember "Live! Via satellite!"). Yet, now when a new form of TV is available, one that really shines with live content, they take the cheap route.

My editorial comment/conclusion:

Remember, all of you good folks out there, that the media, especially TV, is just a business like WalMart or IBM. The ONLY reason for TV content is to get you to watch the commercials. That includes all of the high-priest news broadcast personalities. They can fancy themselves any way they like, but they are simply being used to get us to watch the commercials.

As soon as these businesses realize people will actually watch HD commercials over SD ones, the sooner they will get going and make the investment in the HD live content. The advantage will be relatively short-lived, as people will eventually get used to HD, but there WILL be a preference long enough for it to count in the bottom line. That's all it took for color TV to take hold and for NBC to skyrocket in ratings in the 60s. Question is when will the light go off? When will the epiphany occur?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

parlyle said:


> I still have an incling to go for an 811. I have not heard as much rangling about that reciever as I have about the 921.


To help you research the 811 you might want to check out this forum on the other guys site which is dedicated to 811 questions/issues/problems: http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=46


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## shred (Apr 30, 2003)

"Question is when will the light go off? When will the epiphany occur?"

Hopefully soon because I have fallen for this tv: http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1317,00.html


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## krazy k (Apr 27, 2003)

shred said:


> "Question is when will the light go off? When will the epiphany occur?"
> 
> Hopefully soon because I have fallen for this tv: http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1317,00.html


all i want is a hd dvr with Firewire That,s All
Firewire Firewire FIrewire 
Can somebody Anybody Somewhere
Make a hd Dvr with Firewire :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: 
Clark


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## Guest (May 20, 2004)

krazy k said:


> all i want is a hd dvr with Firewire That,s All
> Firewire Firewire FIrewire
> Can somebody Anybody Somewhere
> Make a hd Dvr with Firewire :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:
> Clark


Here you go:
http://www.169time.com


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## krazy k (Apr 27, 2003)

satpilot said:


> Here you go:
> http://www.169time.com


For 2000.00 i think there is a better option,
way to expensive.
I will spend 1000.00 on a 922 if it had firewire.....


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## Guest (May 23, 2004)

FarNorth said:


> Don't forget that the 921 is a dual tuner. Once you use one, you'll never go back.


I'm not a registered user or regular of this board, however, as a guest, I have a quick question: If I purchase a 921 when they become available, what does the "dual tuner" provide? Can I record two programs at the same time? Or can I watch "live" TV while a program is being recorded? Do I need to run another cable from my Dish to the receiver? Or can I use one cable? Can you use a splitter? Also, I read somewhere (and I could be wrong) that the TiVo HD receiver has four tuners. Why would one need four tuners? Anyway, thanks in advance.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Dual Tuner provides two tuners to record two separate feeds. This can be a combination of SD, HD, or OTA HD. Yes you can watch a live show while another is recording. You can even watch a recorded show while TWO other shows are recording (ie. you recorded a movie last night off of HBO...... You watch the movie while you have a show recording on NBC and ANOTHER show recording on CBS). YES, you need to run another cable (the second tuner needs a separate feed... think of it like plumbing in a bar..... only one line will carry soda and the other will carry beer (mmmm, beer) .... You can't split one feed and expect two different programs (that only works with analog cable TV) so NO a splitter won't work. Haven't heard about a quad tuner.... but maybe that is two HD tuners and two SD tuners... I'm not sure but it may have two of the four active (I'm guessing on this point)....


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

technically you can not use the word FIREWIRE.... Firewire is a copyrighted word by Apple Computer Inc. Any use of the word Firewire, on a commerical product with otu the express premission of Apple Computer would a copy right infringement....


The biggest problem is that any extrenal Firewire HD would end up having to be made by dish as there is no possible way to support the 50 + firewire enclousers and Hard drives. It just be too demanding on any satellite or cable company. And I just dont see Dish Opening up there code up to allow open source improvement as it would give a chance for hackers to look at teh code.


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