# First Look: DIRECTV C61K 4K Genie Mini Client



## Jacob Braun

http://iamanedgecutter.com/showthread.php/153-C61-Edgecutter-Review

It's here! DIRECTV 4K content on any TV that supports HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, and 60fps.

View attachment C61_Edgecutter_Review.pdf


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## P Smith

Should we expect new 4k genie HR64 with own 4k output?

As to the review, it's short of technical info (usual last years): CPU, RAM, flash sizes?


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## Crypter

So now how long is it before they at least go live with a 4K demo channel. Even if it's just running 4K demo material all day. I wonder if we'll get something like HDTV back when HD first became popular. 4KTV anyone?


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## tomspeer46

Thanks to the testers. I might need one someday, if they ever get 4K content, and my eyesight improves to UHD.


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## Jacob Braun

Crypter said:


> So now how long is it before they at least go live with a 4K demo channel. Even if it's just running 4K demo material all day. I wonder if we'll get something like HDTV back when HD first became popular. 4KTV anyone?


There is free 4K demo content but it's OnDemand. I suspect we won't see a live 4K channel (even a test channel) until D15 comes online.


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## dpeters11

I personally don't see actual networks providing 4K for quite some time. Maybe Mark Cuban will do one, or Discovery 4K Theater


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## Go Beavs

Looks like a much better solution to me than "DIRECTV Ready" TVs running RVU.

Nice writeup!


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## Groundhog45

Thanks for the review. Looks good.


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## P Smith

Jacob Braun said:


> There is free 4K demo content but it's OnDemand. I suspect we won't see a live 4K channel (even a test channel) until D15 comes online.


d15 will come soon, so what exactly 4k channel will be turned on this fall?! Do you know or just venting?


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## Jacob Braun

I didn't say fall. I didn't give any date. However given the emphasis on 4K with D15 it's an educated guess. And doubtful this year (also an educated guess) due to everything that would hVe to be in place for a linear 4K channel.


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## NR4P

Crypter said:


> So now how long is it before they at least go live with a 4K demo channel. Even if it's just running 4K demo material all day. I wonder if we'll get something like HDTV back when HD first became popular. 4KTV anyone?


Since this is a client, to decode such a channel will require a Genie to handle the channel.
With the HR54-500 now out, that review shows a possibility of 2 extra SWM channels needed.

I think we are all waiting for something to do the 4K live content.
But there isn't much out there that wouldn't be PPV.


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## KDelande

There's a typo in the doc:

"Slightly larger than a regular Mini Geine..."


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## sbelmont

My 4K TV is connected to my genie, so how would this do me any good? Wouldn't the genie need to be 4K capable in order to use a 4K client? What am I missing?


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## KyL416

The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite pushes, the 4K client is what will allow you to view the content. Right now only certain 4K Samsung TVs can receive it via RVU, the C61K will allow other 4K TVs to receive it as long as the TV has an input that supports both HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.

If your TV doesn't support HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 your 4K viewing will be limited to built in apps like Netflix, which requires a decent broadband connection that doesn't have a low bandwidth cap.


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## Crypter

KyL416 said:


> The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite pushes, the 4K client is what will allow you to view the content. Right now only certain 4K Samsung TVs can receive it via RVU, the C61K will allow other 4K TVs to receive it as long as the TV has an input that supports both HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.
> 
> If your TV doesn't support HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 your 4K viewing will be limited to built in apps like Netflix, which requires a decent broadband connection that doesn't have a low bandwidth cap.


What do you mean by "The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite" ?? I thought the only 4K content the Genie provides is via onDemand and comes down through your internet connection (Not Satellite). Is there any 4K coming down via Satellite right now?


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## KyL416

The 4K content is coming via satellite pushes on hidden channels in the 9000s:
*CINE 9930 PUSH - 4K 1 (D10 Txp 10)
*CINE 9931 PUSH - 4K 2 (D10 Txp 10)
*CINE 9932 PUSH - 4K 3 (D10 Txp 10)
*CINE 9933 PUSH - 4K 4 (D10 Txp 10)
*CINE 9934 PUSH - 4K 5 (D10 Txp 10)


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## peds48

Crypter said:


> What do you mean by "The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite" ?? I thought the only 4K content the Genie provides is via onDemand and comes down through your internet connection (Not Satellite). Is there any 4K coming down via Satellite right now?


You are confused, while 4K VOD is considered "On Demand" it does not come via your ISP, as Kyl416 noted, is pushed to your Genie via satellite. You can actually be proactive and tell the Genie which show you want pushed.


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## slice1900

Crypter said:


> What do you mean by "The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite" ?? I thought the only 4K content the Genie provides is via onDemand and comes down through your internet connection (Not Satellite). Is there any 4K coming down via Satellite right now?


At this time the C61 is more about enabling 4K access for customers who have one of the majority of 4K TVs that can't do RVU. Today all they offer is overpriced video on demand, but eventually that will change. Gotta have the solution in place for everyone before it is needed, otherwise they'll have unhappy customers if they want to get 4K and Directv tells them "sorry, you have the wrong brand of 4K TV" when Dish and the cable company will support their brand.


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## Crypter

peds48 said:


> You are confused, while 4K VOD is considered "On Demand" it does not come via your ISP, as Kyl416 noted, is pushed to your Genie via satellite. You can actually be proactive and tell the Genie which show you want pushed.


I am confused, how do I tell it to push instead of using my Internet Connection? I have seen it use my internet connection for onDemand content in the past so that is why I made this assumption.


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## slice1900

Crypter said:


> I am confused, how do I tell it to push instead of using my Internet Connection? I have seen it use my internet connection for onDemand content in the past so that is why I made this assumption.


Directv's 4K isn't on demand, you don't get to start watching until has been recorded to your DVR off the 'push' channels first. This method only works because Directv is offering a handful of 4K movies, once there is a lot of it they'll have to leave you with the choice between the PPV channels with limited choice versus on demand streamed via internet like they do for HD content.


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## Crypter

slice1900 said:


> Directv's 4K isn't on demand, you don't get to start watching until has been recorded to your DVR off the 'push' channels first. This method only works because Directv is offering a handful of 4K movies, once there is a lot of it they'll have to leave you with the choice between the PPV channels with limited choice versus on demand streamed via internet like they do for HD content.


So right now our local cable company is in the process of laying down new Fiber Optic cable to houses and setting up the infrastructure to provide high speed internet connectivity. It's a new sub-division and until that day I am stuck using Verizon Wirelss Home Fusion (LTE) but I am limited to 30GB a month so I have a strict no streaming ban in my house right now and ive cancelled all my streaming subscriptions until that is resolved. So I have been very weary of watching any of the DirecTV 4K content for fear of killing my data limit. Should I NOT worry about this?


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## peds48

Crypter said:


> So I have been very weary of watching any of the DirecTV 4K content for fear of killing my data limit. Should I NOT worry about this?


With 4K you shouldn't worry about your data caps, you should have to worry about your bottom line cap, however.....

In order to force a PUSH, you add a 4K PPV tittle to your queue, the next time that tittle is in the carousel it will get push to your DVR via satellite


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## btedford

I just ordered my c61 today from DirecTV. Installer is coming on Saturday.


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## Crypter

peds48 said:


> With 4K you shouldn't worry about your data caps, you should have to worry about your bottom line cap, however.....
> 
> In order to force a PUSH, you add a 4K PPV tittle to your queue, the next time that tittle is in the carousel it will get push to your DVR via satellite


I'm sorry. what do you mean by "bottom line cap"?


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## inkahauts

Crypter said:


> So right now our local cable company is in the process of laying down new Fiber Optic cable to houses and setting up the infrastructure to provide high speed internet connectivity. It's a new sub-division and until that day I am stuck using Verizon Wirelss Home Fusion (LTE) but I am limited to 30GB a month so I have a strict no streaming ban in my house right now and ive cancelled all my streaming subscriptions until that is resolved. So I have been very weary of watching any of the DirecTV 4K content for fear of killing my data limit. Should I NOT worry about this?


If I where you, Id probably just unplug your internet connection from your directv system for a while. You lose out on a few things, but not enough to worry about considering your limit... Especially since this is temporary.


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## inkahauts

Crypter said:


> I am confused, how do I tell it to push instead of using my Internet Connection? I have seen it use my internet connection for onDemand content in the past so that is why I made this assumption.


Here is how it works...

All the 4k programming is being broadcast on a channel you cant see, over and over again, in rotation. When you chose something to record its basically like choosing a show from the guide to record, and next time it is "on" which in this case, starts over playing on the hidden channels, it gets recorded to your hard drive.


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## peds48

Crypter said:


> I'm sorry. what do you mean by "bottom line cap"?


your wallet! 4K has two promos and the rest is overpriced PPVs. So if your wallet has a cap, be mindful of it


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## Crypter

peds48 said:


> your wallet! 4K has two promos and the rest is overpriced PPVs. So if your wallet has a cap, be mindful of it


LOL...well that one went over my head. Thanks for the "for Dummies" explanation.


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## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> If I where you, Id probably just unplug your internet connection from your directv system for a while. You lose out on a few things, but not enough to worry about considering your limit... Especially since this is temporary.


I agree with this. There's not much reason to have an internet connection to your Directv equipment if you aren't going to watch any VOD, and that way you don't have to worry about a software update that changes behavior or has a bug from costing you a bunch of money.


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## I WANT MORE

I ordered one today from solid signal. It should arrive tomorrow. I wonder if the scaler in this thing will be any better than the one in my Vizio P series 70 inch. On my 44 and 24s I always use native but will probably select 2160 for this one. We'll see.


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## I WANT MORE

Do you have to call DirecTV and have anything activated in order to receive the 4K video on-demand channels? Just got my 61 activated and running but get the channel does not exist message on those previously listed for 4K channels.


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## peds48

I WANT MORE said:


> Do you have to call DirecTV and have anything activated in order to receive the 4K video on-demand channels? Just got my 61 activated and running but get the channel does not exist message on those previously listed for 4K channels.


If DIRECTV activated the C61K properly, those channels should auto populate automatically


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## I WANT MORE

Still getting channel not available on those channels. I refreshed the service on both the genie and the 61 to no avail. 
Additionally the solid signal page says that the 61 Resamples all DirecTV content to 4K which is not happening either.


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## I WANT MORE

I called DirecTV and apparently they are having issues with their 4K channels. Everyone should be getting the same message.


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## peds48

I WANT MORE said:


> I called DirecTV and apparently they are having issues with their 4K channels. Everyone should be getting the same message.


Apparently they are playing games....


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## NR4P

If you have 4K activated on your account, you will see channel 1102 in the guide and even the Genie should connect to it.
I just checked and it's fine.


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## btedford

I had the same issue yesterday and when I called in to DTV, they said that 4K was not authorized on my account and that they couldn't do it and only the Technician could add it, (which I was told twice by two different CSRs). So the technician came back out today and got it all sorted out but had to speak with Advanced Tech Support to get it readded.


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## I WANT MORE

I'm having the exact same issues here with getting 4K authorized for my account. Does anyone here know anyway to get this done without a truck roll? I really don't want to have to go that route. Thanks in advance.


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## cal87

I had no problems getting mine activated. Purchased from Weaknees. Hooked it up and immediately detected my TV as 4K capable. Entered the PIN to pair with my Genie. Programming fine, but no 4K. Called up DirecTV, and said "activate". The rep asked for my serial #. The C61K then did a software download and flash update (not sure if it was something the rep pushed). Once it restarted, it was all good.

All that I have watched so far are the Preview / Introducing / Experience 4K clips. Funny thing though, once the clip finishes, I get a black screen with no input detected. I have to change channels or power off and on to get picture back.


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## I WANT MORE

Finally after a little persistence I got a competent CSR. Everything is up and running. Thanks for the help on here. Looking forward to some linear 4K in the not-too-distant future.


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## turls

Sorry, it has been a long time since I've considered an upgrade since I can't upgrade my Genie and the technology on the other receivers in my house hasn't changed in years. Why are you guys wanting to avoid a truck roll and buy from Solid Signal or Weakknees? You pay the same price or more (I was able to get my C61K at a discount from DirecTV), and you get the same lease agreement extension? And it sounds like the setup is a little tricky with getting everything enabled for 4K? Of course I have the same tech that setup my complex SWM setup a few years back so I trust he knows what he is doing, but still...


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## cal87

turls said:


> Sorry, it has been a long time since I've considered an upgrade since I can't upgrade my Genie and the technology on the other receivers in my house hasn't changed in years. Why are you guys wanting to avoid a truck roll and buy from Solid Signal or Weakknees? You pay the same price or more (I was able to get my C61K at a discount from DirecTV), and you get the same lease agreement extension? And it sounds like the setup is a little tricky with getting everything enabled for 4K? Of course I have the same tech that setup my complex SWM setup a few years back so I trust he knows what he is doing, but still...


Simple. I don't like having to have people come into my house. Also hate having to setup an appointment with a four hour window or whatever. Never know what my schedule is going to be. Was not worried too much about the price. Just got about $1000 on a Sunday Ticket deal anyways.


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## txfeinbergs

So let me get this right, if I have my main TV next to my HR44, I have to have this box also for a 4K TV? Does that mean I need to pay for two receivers for one TV? If so, that is a deal killer.

Which brings up another question, I would effectively have two receivers and remotes for that TV, the HR44 and the mini client, I guess I only change channels via the mini client?


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## peds48

txfeinbergs said:


> So let me get this right, if I have my main TV next to my HR44, I have to have this box also for a 4K TV? Does that mean I need to pay for two receivers for one TV? If so, that is a deal killer.
> 
> Which brings up another question, I would effectively have two receivers and remotes for that TV, the HR44 and the mini client, I guess I only change channels via the mini client?


Yes and yes and yes


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## inkahauts

txfeinbergs said:


> So let me get this right, if I have my main TV next to my HR44, I have to have this box also for a 4K TV? Does that mean I need to pay for two receivers for one TV? If so, that is a deal killer.
> 
> Which brings up another question, I would effectively have two receivers and remotes for that TV, the HR44 and the mini client, I guess I only change channels via the mini client?


Most people would put the genie on another tv and the client by itself on the tv that's 4K. If you have another tv.


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## turls

inkahauts said:


> Most people would put the genie on another tv and the client by itself on the tv that's 4K. If you have another tv.


If you have a TV or projector that has 4K it should be big enough to bother utilizing PiP or PoP. (I'm not talking the built in capability but external.) Problem solved, plenty of reason to dedicate two boxes to one TV then.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## txfeinbergs

peds48 said:


> Yes and yes and yes


That is a really crappy implementation. I was hoping for better from DirecTV honestly. Why would I put the genie DVR on one of my upstairs non MAIN TVs that is hardly ever used. The slower response time of the client isn't worth it since we use the main TV 90% of the time. I guess I will hold off on getting a 4K TV until they come out with a dedicated 4K Genie. I was actually excited when I saw the press release today since I have been waiting to pull the trigger on a 4K TV for awhile now.


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## peds48

txfeinbergs said:


> That is a really crappy implementation.


Why the rush?? There is ZERO linear content right now. Unless of course you feel like pay $15.00 bucks per PPV movie... Once there is dedicated content and 4K goes mainstream, ATT (DirecTV ) will def come with a more sustainable solution. But for the little use a C61K will do just fine.


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## inkahauts

txfeinbergs said:


> That is a really crappy implementation. I was hoping for better from DirecTV honestly. Why would I put the genie DVR on one of my upstairs non MAIN TVs that is hardly ever used. The slower response time of the client isn't worth it since we use the main TV 90% of the time. I guess I will hold off on getting a 4K TV until they come out with a dedicated 4K Genie. I was actually excited when I saw the press release today since I have been waiting to pull the trigger on a 4K TV for awhile now.


No one has a 4K DVR with HDMI output right now that I'm aware of. I think Comcast is claiming they will have something soon but I think that also uses a tvs internals. We are to early to be building that into the DVRs yet. Give it another year. Or two.

What you could do.... And while it's a pain of a work around it would work for now considering how little it'd be used for now... Get a genie for downstairs and a client for upstairs. Get a 4K tv that will do 4K via RVU with DIRECTV. Then have then activate one client on your account, and switch from the client on the upstairs tv to the 4K built in one when you want to watch 4K content. There would be a little trick to making that happen correctly but it can be done.


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## txfeinbergs

peds48 said:


> Why the rush?? There is ZERO linear content right now. Unless of course you feel like pay $15.00 bucks per PPV movie... Once there is dedicated content and 4K goes mainstream, ATT (DirecTV ) will def come with a more sustainable solution. But for the little use a C61K will do just fine.


Wow, is that what they are charging? I guess you are right, I will wait.


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## peds48

txfeinbergs said:


> Wow, is that what they are charging? I guess you are right, I will wait.


Waiting is the right thing to do. As there is no benefit of getting one right at this time


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## turls

cal87 said:


> Simple. I don't like having to have people come into my house. Also hate having to setup an appointment with a four hour window or whatever. Never know what my schedule is going to be. Was not worried too much about the price. Just got about $1000 on a Sunday Ticket deal anyways.


Well this is what happened when I had them come into my house. YMMV. This was the first 4K receiver my installer has put in, but he is pretty good and has been with DirecTV for 10 years and he has worked on my system before. We got an error and couldn't get the C61K to work. It was giving a MoCA network interference error working with my H34. The units are only a few feet apart, and both units are fed off the same DirecTV splitter. Long story short, he thought the H34 was the issue and after numerous reboot tries I got a new H44 out of the deal. Lost my recordings but got a faster smaller profile box (and my rack is tight in there). If I hadn't had a truck roll that would have been a very tricky troubleshoot.


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## peds48

turls said:


> Well this is what happened when I had them come into my house. YMMV. This was the first 4K receiver my installer has put in, but he is pretty good and has been with DirecTV for 10 years and he has worked on my system before. We got an error and couldn't get the C61K to work. It was giving a MoCA network interference error working with my H34. The units are only a few feet apart, and both units are fed off the same DirecTV splitter. Long story short, he thought the H34 was the issue and after numerous reboot tries I got a new H44 out of the deal. Lost my recordings but got a faster smaller profile box (and my rack is tight in there). If I hadn't had a truck roll that would have been a very tricky troubleshoot.


Run a system test, the error may still be there, replacing the Genie may have just masked the error.


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## HoTat2

peds48 said:


> Run a system test, the error may still be there, replacing the Genie may have just masked the error.


Or perhaps better a coax network test (Menu + > right arrow key) if its a MoCA interference problem?

Also to the poster, it's actually the "HR34" and "HR44." I say this mainly for the sake of the latter to avoid possible confusion with readers thinking you might have received an H44 Genie Lite.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## GregLee

Why tie 4k to the in-home client server architecture? I have no interest in that. If it weren't for that, and if there were a prospect of getting HDR-UHD movies, and if there were any interesting 4k content, and if it didn't cost an arm and a leg, and if I wouldn't lose 3 terabytes of dvr recordings when I changed out my non-Genie receivers, I'd order one of these.


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## peds48

GregLee said:


> Why tie 4k to the in-home client server architecture?


as I said numerous times, this is just the beginning. If 4K becomes main stream, expect to have a dedicated 4K Genie.


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## dpeters11

Exactly. This is a niche market, or maybe a niche inside of a niche (those that not only do PPV but would have the TV to do 4K PPV.)


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## P Smith

dpeters11 said:


> Exactly. This is a niche market, or maybe a niche inside of a niche (those that not only do PPV but would have the TV to do 4K PPV.)


that would tell us: the 4k programming will not become main stream for sat providers


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## Crypter

dpeters11 said:


> Exactly. This is a niche market, or maybe a niche inside of a niche (those that not only do PPV but would have the TV to do 4K PPV.)


It's not niche when you walk into a Best Buy and pretty much every mid-to-high end TV is 4K. 4K is here whether you like it or not, all the panel manufacturing plants around the world are making 4K panels now and they have become as cheap to make as 1080p panels now. We are already seeing prices drop in the mid range category of 4K and more and more lower end lines are also becoming exclusively 4K. I estimate that in a couple of years you will have a hard time finding a decent big screen 1080p set.


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## dpeters11

Crypter said:


> It's not niche when you walk into a Best Buy and pretty much every mid-to-high end TV is 4K. 4K is here whether you like it or not, all the panel manufacturing plants around the world are making 4K panels now and they have become as cheap to make as 1080p panels now. We are already seeing prices drop in the mid range category of 4K and more and more lower end lines are also becoming exclusively 4K. I estimate that in a couple of years you will have a hard time finding a decent big screen 1080p set.


4K TV's aren't a niche market. 4K programming is, other than sources like Netflix. No channel is sending a 4K version. Whether you have cable, satellite, whatever, to watch something in 4K will have to be PPV of some sort.

Until channels actually have 4K versions, and it's more than the old days of HDNet and Discovery HD Theater, it's niche. Very few subscribers will have a need for the c61k, currently you only need it for watching 4K PPV, it doesn't do anything for an other 4K sources outside of DirecTV.


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## Crypter

dpeters11 said:


> 4K TV's aren't a niche market. 4K programming is, other than sources like Netflix. No channel is sending a 4K version. Whether you have cable, satellite, whatever, to watch something in 4K will have to be PPV of some sort.
> 
> Until channels actually have 4K versions, and it's more than the old days of HDNet and Discovery HD Theater, it's niche. Very few subscribers will have a need for the c61k, currently you only need it for watching 4K PPV, it doesn't do anything for an other 4K sources outside of DirecTV.


Of course, it is going to take some time and $$$ for networks to catch up to the display technology this time around. Movies will come first since many of today's movies are filmed and mastered in 4K already. There are also a lot of catalog titles that have been remastered in 4K for blu-ray so hopefully when UHD Blu-Ray comes out later this year we will be able to get some high quality movies for our 4K TV's. I expect we will see at least a handful of linear 4K programming from some networks start next year and increase from there. Personally I hope we get to see some Live Sports in 4K in the not too distant future.


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## GregLee

Crypter said:


> It's not niche when you walk into a Best Buy and pretty much every mid-to-high end TV is 4K. 4K is here whether you like it or not, all the panel manufacturing plants around the world are making 4K panels now and they have become as cheap to make as 1080p panels now.


You're right, and you're wrong. 4k displays are here to stay. 4k sources are not here at all, and may never get here. In part, this is because 4k displays are a good value even when showing 2k sources only. In part, it's because 4k sources are so costly.


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## WestDC

Crypter said:


> It's not niche when you walk into a Best Buy and pretty much every mid-to-high end TV is 4K. 4K is here whether you like it or not, all the panel manufacturing plants around the world are making 4K panels now and they have become as cheap to make as 1080p panels now. We are already seeing prices drop in the mid range category of 4K and more and more lower end lines are also becoming exclusively 4K. I estimate that in a couple of years you will have a hard time finding a decent big screen 1080p set.


Yeah-It reminds me when everythig was 3D ready -LOL!!


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## Crypter

WestDC said:


> Yeah-It reminds me when everythig was 3D ready -LOL!!


There is a BIG difference between a feature you turn on and off and need additional accessories to use versus a native specification on a TV that is a permanent feature.


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## peds48

Crypter said:


> There is a BIG difference between a feature you turn on and off and need additional accessories to use versus a native specification on a TV that is a permanent feature.


But....but...but... 3D was supposed to be a permanent feature, what happened was the gimmick wore off pretty quickly. If 3D were to take off at the time, all channels were supposed to be 3D. That was something that you could not turn on or off.


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## P Smith

He forgot what thread he is posting! DTV, btw.


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## Crypter

I wasn't really around this forum when the whole 3D craze was in full swing. Either way, anyone with common sense could tell you that 3D was a far more gimmicky feature since even movie theaters offer both 2D and 3D versions of most movies that come out. Also some people flat out cant handle the 3D effect without getting sick not to mention the fact that everyone needs to wear an accessory to enjoy said 3D content. I'm sorry, if you can't clearly see the difference between these technologies than there is nothing else I can say. Bottom line is, if you buy a big screen TV today it will more than likely be 4K. If you don't already own a 4K TV then I can see how easy it is for you to dismiss it as niche. Content will eventually catch up as prices decrease to produce in 4K, the necessary infrastructure changes for 4K are already underway for many networks. Movie studios have been producing and mastering in 4K for a while now. I was sort of a skeptic myself a year ago, thinking this would only ever be a niche market. But I recently had to buy a new TV and now that I own a 4K TV I can honestly say the difference in PQ is a very noticeable upgrade over 1080p (assuming you get a big enough screen for your viewing distance). Truth is I think anything less than 65" is probably a waste for 4K, unless its in a dorm room/gaming or PC environment.


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## inkahauts

WestDC said:


> Yeah-It reminds me when everythig was 3D ready -LOL!!


3D was a parallel capability to Hi Definition. It didn't take off.

4K is the next generation of Hi Definition. It will exists long term because that's how movies will be made in general more and more as time passes. It'll take its time because no one is in a rush but it will happen. It's nothing like 3D was. That was a cluster. And it was not evolutionary at all.

That's also why unlike 3D you see an entirely new product just because it's 4K capable. .

There was never a new device just because it was 3D from DIRECTV. But there is from 4K.


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## peds48

Crypter said:


> If you don't already own a 4K TV then I can see how easy it is for you to dismiss it as niche.


But you keep missing the point. The "niche" here are not the TVs, but rather the "experience" right now due to the fact that there are ZERO linear channels, and just a few PPV movies. The fact that you understand that there is not much benefit for 4K for smaller sets, discredits your point!.


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> There was never a new device just because it was 3D from DIRECTV. But there is from 4K.


The C61K is more of a "I did it first" kind of thing or bragging rights. DIRECTV is throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. If DIRECTV was serious and committed about 4K, there would be a 4K Genie just about now. But the lesson was learned form the 3D fiasco. One step at a time.


----------



## inkahauts

peds48 said:


> The C61K is more of a "I did it first" kind of thing or bragging rights. DIRECTV is throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. If DIRECTV was serious and committed about 4K, there would be a 4K Genie just about now. But the lesson was learned form the 3D fiasco. One step at a time.


I disagree with the idea they are throwing this against the wall to stick. It's coming and it's not going away. The particular device is the right strategy till the hardware matures some, as it's a far smaller investment by comparison of trying to build a 4K genie right now.


----------



## Crypter

peds48 said:


> But you keep missing the point. The "niche" here are not the TVs, but rather the "experience" right now due to the fact that there are ZERO linear channels, and just a few PPV movies. The fact that you understand that there is not much benefit for 4K for smaller sets, discredits your point!.


Yes, you are right, it is currently niche, but only because the technology is still in it's infancy (at least for the home consumer). 4K is still new and efforts are well underway to eventually deliver more content in 4K (UHD Blu-Ray will be out this year). The simple fact that almost all NEW TV's being sold today are 4K means it will not remain "niche" for long. So once linear 4K programming is available there will already be a decent size base of customers ready to consume. To my point about screen size, my opinion aside, you can find 4K tv's as small as 48" I believe that is the cutoff point (aside from some PC Monitors). However, much like 1080p, eventually it will just be cheaper and easier to make all screens 4K, even smaller ones, and all computer monitors will also be 4K. Even if I think it does not make sense to have a 32" 4K TV unless its being used as a PC monitor.


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> I disagree with the idea they are throwing this against the wall to stick. It's coming and it's not going away. The particular device is the right strategy till the hardware matures some, as* it's a far smaller investment* by comparison of trying to build a 4K genie right now.


And that is the point. They are not sure about the whole thing. Now the have have bragging rights, if the feature becomes main stream, a 4K Genie would have to be released. If 4K dies, then they can just make the C61K disappear to oblivion...


----------



## peds48

Crypter said:


> Yes, you are right, it is currently niche, but only because the technology is still in it's infancy (at least for the home consumer).


And that is all we are trying to say.


----------



## David Ortiz

> The C61K is more of a "I did it first" kind of thing or bragging rights. DIRECTV is throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. If DIRECTV was serious and committed about 4K, there would be a 4K Genie just about now. But the lesson was learned form the 3D fiasco. One step at a time.


The C61K may be a whole lot more than that. It could allow AT&T to focus solely on the combined U-verse TV/DIRECTV hardware rather than design a DIRECTV only 4K Genie.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Semantics are an interesting thing...

Is UHD niche? Are we talking today or as a future?

Is HD a niche? Absolutely not. Was it ever? No, not really. It was the plan. But there was a time when one could only purchase a TV and get very little content. In fact, probably less content than one can get in UHD today.

Was color TV a niche? There was a time the only content might be a color test pattern broadcast by a local electronics store until the local stations actually switched. (Worked great--just a test pattern sold TVs in the 50s...)

But, UHD isn't a broadcast plan at this point. Yet there is real content thru non-broadcast means. So the newest video technology is available via the newest delivery medium. And I'm pretty certain there will be linear channels. (And particularly the NFL Sunday Ticket will eventually be UHD.) 

So I don't consider UHD a niche. The TVs are here, the content is here. The linear isn't here yet--Mark Cuban is too busy with other things to create UHDnet. 

Peace,
Tom


----------



## P Smith

Tom Robertson said:


> Semantics are an interesting thing...
> 
> Is UHD niche? Are we talking today or as a future?
> 
> Is HD a niche? Absolutely not. Was it ever? No, not really. It was the plan. But there was a time when one could only purchase a TV and * get very little content.* In fact, probably less content than one can get in UHD today.
> ...
> 
> Peace,
> Tom


 not true!


----------



## inkahauts

Totally true! I sold tvs when Hi Definition first came out. There was nothing to watch.


----------



## Gary16

That's why when I went to buy my first HD set wa back when I made the dealer let me watch in the store first to see which HD set had the best SD picture.


----------



## Laxguy

Relying on a store demo of anything electronic can be a crap shoot. Caution is advised.


----------



## GregLee

Tom Robertson said:


> Semantics are an interesting thing...
> 
> Is UHD niche? ...
> 
> Is HD a niche? Absolutely not. Was it ever? No, not really. It was the plan.
> 
> But, UHD isn't a broadcast plan at this point. ...
> 
> So I don't consider UHD a niche.


This makes no sense. You say HD was never a niche because it was the plan. Then you say UHD is not the plan, so it is not a niche.


----------



## inkahauts

I think he means it's not simply because of how many tvs are out there and being sold that are 4K. Vs Hi Definition not having nearly as many before anything showed up to watch it.


----------



## slice1900

4K TVs are selling faster than HDTVs did early in their life since HDTVs were really pricey at first, but once HDTVs started coming down in price there were several factors that helped drive the adoption of HD that are not present for 4K. One, the switch from analog to digital; two, the switch from 4:3 to 16:9; three, government mandates for digital ATSC broadcasts (didn't mandate HD, but certainly helped encourage it)

Getting 4K content will require 4K TV owners to demand it. To choose to spend more time watching 4K channels in preference to other channels that don't have a 4K feed, and to "vote with their feet" and change providers to those who offer more 4K channels. Those are required in order to motivate "lesser" channels (i.e. aside from the heavily watched big players like ESPN, HBO, etc. that we can be certain will go 4K) like Discovery, Fox News, WGN America, Comedy Central, MTV, all those RSNs, and of course local stations...


----------



## Tom Robertson

GregLee said:


> This makes no sense. You say HD was never a niche because it was the plan. Then you say UHD is not the plan, so it is not a niche.


Doesn't help that you trim out some of my words to get confused...

Those intervening words were kinda important. Like the part about there being CONTENT--which is king. 

Peace,
Tom


----------



## Tom Robertson

P Smith said:


> not true!


At some point you could buy an HD TV and get very, very little content. So True. 

Peace,
Tom


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> 4K TVs are selling faster than HDTVs did early in their life since HDTVs were really pricey at first, but once HDTVs started coming down in price there were several factors that helped drive the adoption of HD that are not present for 4K. One, the switch from analog to digital; two, the switch from 4:3 to 16:9; three, government mandates for digital ATSC broadcasts (didn't mandate HD, but certainly helped encourage it)
> 
> Getting 4K content will require 4K TV owners to demand it. To choose to spend more time watching 4K channels in preference to other channels that don't have a 4K feed, and to "vote with their feet" and change providers to those who offer more 4K channels. Those are required in order to motivate "lesser" channels (i.e. aside from the heavily watched big players like ESPN, HBO, etc. that we can be certain will go 4K) like Discovery, Fox News, WGN America, Comedy Central, MTV, all those RSNs, and of course local stations...


You seem to be forgetting something. Hollywood will go 4K and 8k as time passes to have better archival footage and they can do more with it especially as HDR advances. In time as things need to be upgraded studios and broadcasters will upgrade and they will simply go towards 4K as well. At some point in 10 years or so I bet they won't even be able to get equipment that doesn't do 4K. This will be more natural progression of technology IMHO and not pushed by a mandate.

Same way so many people now have smart phones instead of flip phones.


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> Same way so many people now have smart phones instead of flip phones.


Not quite. Smartphones bloomed when carriers started to give them away for "free"(Hello Samsung!). If DIRECTV starts giving away 4K TVs, in order to get 4K content, that will certainly help 4K assuming 4K is already here.


----------



## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> You seem to be forgetting something. Hollywood will go 4K and 8k as time passes to have better archival footage and they can do more with it especially as HDR advances. In time as things need to be upgraded studios and broadcasters will upgrade and they will simply go towards 4K as well. At some point in 10 years or so I bet they won't even be able to get equipment that doesn't do 4K. This will be more natural progression of technology IMHO and not pushed by a mandate.


So why are there still channels and programming that is SD only, since if your theory is correct all non-HD capable gear should have disappeared years ago given how long it has been since HD broadcasts started.


----------



## inkahauts

peds48 said:


> Not quite. Smartphones bloomed when carriers started to give them away for "free"(Hello Samsung!). If DIRECTV starts giving away 4K TVs, in order to get 4K content, that will certainly help 4K assuming 4K is already here.


Smart phones took off when iphone hit... They where out for years before that, but the iphone transformed the industry completely. And they where anything but free.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> So why are there still channels and programming that is SD only, since if your theory is correct all non-HD capable gear should have disappeared years ago given how long it has been since HD broadcasts started.


No, my theory doesn't mean that at all. It means that the vast majority will move to it, there will always be outliers in both directions. Always. When 4k is doing well 8k will be the top end outlier... Plus sd today is far more about people who don't have HD tvs, not about content. And the content that is only in sd is generally that way because its on a OTA sub channel or is very old material that has never had a hd transfer (lots of those sub channels lately) Most content is short in hd, Very little is actually shot in a ntsc format of video anymore. Even low rez stuff is done digitally, generally most is downconverted from hd quality... But then there are still black and white programs too... You will always have channels showing the way stuff used to be made, but the vast majority, not so much.. They will be only a couple generations behind what is the latest out there really...


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> Smart phones took off when iphone hit... They where out for years before that, but the iphone transformed the industry completely. And they where anything but free.












You may want to get your facts straight. I would call 5% penetration a niche market.


----------



## NR4P

Also contributing to the smartphone success was a strong push by the carriers
-they started eliminating basic phones
-they made them free or only $99 after the iphone first wave $499 per phone enthusiasm started to tail off
-unlimited data for th first years for $30/month to wet our appetite
-free apps

Compare it to 4K
-almost all content is SD/HD
-4K TV prices dropping like a rock this year but still more per TV vs. HD 1080p
-content ridiculously high charges. $12.99 for a PPV?
-Nothing is free. Amazonprovides some 4K for free but is limited and thee is a yearly membership to get the 4K and other movies have charges with membership
Netflix is now $12/month for 4K and 4 devices but compared to a $12.99 for one PPV, not bad.


In summary the wireless carriers wanted everyone to move to smartphones and helped drive the value but the cable and SAT providers are providing the headwinds. Granted content is flowing too much either.


----------



## slice1900

peds48 said:


> You may want to get your facts straight. I would call 5% penetration a niche market.


The point isn't the amount of market penetration at the time, but the fact Apple showed everyone how to make a smartphone that ordinary people would want. Until the Android team saw the iPhone intro in early 2007, the software they were designing assumed phones all had keyboards like a Blackberry. There would have never been a big smartphone adoption by ordinary people if that remained the form factor.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/the-day-google-had-to-start-over-on-android/282479/


----------



## Tom Robertson

To me niche is something that is likely to stay small. Something that starts small yet likely to grow is early adopter. (And some things that could be early adopter yet don't grow then become niche.)

Seems like with the cost differential between HD and 4k being so low, and with so much content already available, 4k is not niche. 3D was too expensive and too little content so early adopter turned back to niche status. 

Time will tell. Or economics and content will. 

Peace,
Tom


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> The point isn't the amount of market penetration at the time, but the fact Apple showed everyone how to make a smartphone that ordinary people would want. Until the Android team saw the iPhone intro in early 2007, the software they were designing assumed phones all had keyboards like a Blackberry. There would have never been a big smartphone adoption by ordinary people if that remained the form factor.
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/the-day-google-had-to-start-over-on-android/282479/


Exactly. iPhone paved the way. Once everyone saw how huge an iPhone was becoming (and market penetration is meaningless in measuring how big it was) everyone else followed suit. Why do you think palm phones and the like where really only for business people? iPhone made them realize that kind of thing was for everyone.

And that's why I believe we have so many 4K tvs on the market already. No one wants to be left behind like palm was when the iPhone came out. They seem an emerging market and they all jumped in way early this time instead of waiting till it had content like Hi Definition sets. And because of the technology its vastly easier for them to do that this time than it was for Hi Definition too. And since so many will have 4K it'll be easier for content providers to justify a 4K offering.

Hi Definition really required content to get mass adoption on the consumer end. This time it's going to work a bit in reverse. We will have much more consumer adoption due to technology and by natural upgrades at studios we will see them see a low hurdle to going with 4K offer endings at providers. Things that just didn't exist for Hi Definition movement


----------



## slice1900

The reason there are many 4K TVs out has nothing to do with no one wanting to be left behind. It is actually fairly difficult (i.e. expensive) to make the crystals in a LCD as large as they need to be once you exceed 60" or so screen size. The LCD matrix is cheaper in a 4K TV beyond that point. The electronics are more expensive of course, as is the licensing (i.e. HDMI 2.x, HEVC) but the electronics gets driven down by volume and the licensing is often capped at a certain amount. Since the electronics required have become mass market in the past 6-9 months I suspect we're already at the point where it is cheaper to make a 65" LCD TV 4K rather than HD.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> The reason there are many 4K TVs out has nothing to do with no one wanting to be left behind. It is actually fairly difficult (i.e. expensive) to make the crystals in a LCD as large as they need to be once you exceed 60" or so screen size. The LCD matrix is cheaper in a 4K TV beyond that point. The electronics are more expensive of course, as is the licensing (i.e. HDMI 2.x, HEVC) but the electronics gets driven down by volume and the licensing is often capped at a certain amount. Since the electronics required have become mass market in the past 6-9 months I suspect we're already at the point where it is cheaper to make a 65" LCD TV 4K rather than HD.


While what you say is one cause, don't think for a moment vizio hasn't put pressure on these other manufacturers to get 4k sets out and lower their costs... Competition is absolutely driving some of this, because not all 4k sets are very large.... Just look at what Sharp just did....


----------



## I WANT MORE

Anyone want to discuss the 

DIRECTV C61K 4K Genie Mini Client

There is probably a dedicated cell phone forum somewhere.


----------



## Crypter

This is a discussion on 4K technology which is directly aimed at the sole purpose that the C61K Mini Client exists. So I think the 4K discussion is perfectly valid and the cell phone talk was merely a comparison point in the debate of niche vs. early adoption of 4K. Valid or invalid these discussions, while not directly about the client, are still very much "On Topic" . IMO of course.


----------



## Laxguy

Agree.

The best way to get to the topic you want, Mr. More, is to *post something on topic*. Way better than complaining!


----------



## HDJulie

So, my husband & I bought a 4K TV this past weekend. We started out trying to get YouTube in the spare room where we have a treadmill. He loves YouTube. We started with a new AppleTV with the existing 42" TV in the room. Due to problems with that TV, this did not work & we ended up with a 65" 4K TV in the living room & through the TV swap out dance, a 47" smart TV in the spare room. Anyway, now we have this nice TV & we have the HR44 connected to it. We also have the old 55" TV connected to the same HR44 through component (we have a shared wall between the dining room & living room). We want to get a wireless genie mini to connect to one of these TVs so that we can also use it (the wireless genie mini) with the old 42" to watch TV on the deck if we like. I saw this first look & read that the C61 can output 4K content if it ever exists & thought that might be the thing to get. However, I've seen comments in some of the threads that imply the clients are slower than the actual Genie to what seems to be a significant degree. I was also thinking that between the C61 mini & the TV itself that I would get "upscaled" content that was not 4K but was at least noticeably better than just 1080. Am I wrong in that assumption? Is it also not a good idea to use a client on the main TV because it can be noticeably slower than the server?


----------



## inkahauts

Id get a client. The 61k is not wireless. They aren't quite as fast as the main unit but they aren't snails either. I'm fine with them myself. I don't know if the 61k is slower than the wireless one.


----------



## HDJulie

Well, damn, I didn't realize that (not wireless). Thanks for pointing it out. Do you have the 61k? If so, is it on a 4K TV? If so, does it make the picture better .


----------



## peds48

The C61K does not make the picture better as it only up-scales 1080p to 4K, and guess what, there is not much on 1080p. Now, your TV does up-scale anything to 4K


----------



## HDJulie

Ah, ok, that I also did not realize. Thanks for the info!


----------



## I WANT MORE

I concur. 
There is NO difference in PQ with the C61k.
My experience has been that the C61k is every bit as responsive as the HR44.


----------



## NR4P

Your C61K experience is better than mine.
Agree on the PQ but the HR44 is a tad faster than the C61K. Every now and then I do see a Menu or Guide lag on the C61K. But I wrote "tad". The C61K is pretty good.


----------



## Reggie3

I have been reading that the real improvement with picture will come from HDR and not necessarily from 4K. I wonder if D* will be able to stream this?

http://www.electronichouse.com/daily/smart-tv/hdr-important-4k-tvs/


----------



## slice1900

I'm sure they plan to do HDR, but it depends on the broadcasters. NASA will have the first real 4K channel in North America (starting up November 1st, no idea if/when Directv plans to carry it) and they will experiment with various HDR delivery methods. The problem with HDR is that there is no settled standard, so buying a TV that advertises "HDR" is risky - don't spend too much extra to get it because if the standard everyone settles on isn't what your TV supports, its HDR will be unused.


----------



## bealby

I just had the Directv people out to replace my existing mini genie with a 4k mini genie. It did not work.
I have a Pioneer Elite sc-85 and a Samsung UN65JS8500F 4k TV, all new and all 4k ready.

The Directv installer was told by his technical support people that Directv does not support 4k on ANY av receivers.
you have to go directly to the TV. 

This seems nuts,
Does anyone have Directv running 4k through a receiver?

Thanks


----------



## btedford

I do, I have a DENON AVR-X3100 and it works perfectly fine but it also has HDCP 2.2 which is a requirement for the 4k Mini to work. Both the TV and the A/V receiver need to support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. The SC-85 has HDCP 1.4 and HDMI 2.0, so it will not show 4k content while plugged into the A/V receiver (or the TV if it doesn't have HDCP 2.2 support.)


----------



## marcusadolfsson

You could use a device like this http://www.hdfury.com/shop/splitters/integral-4k60-444-600mhz/to down covert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4. I just got two last week and they work perfectly - one with a C61K and one with a Roku 4.


----------



## slice1900

I don't believe a device able to convert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4 is permitted under the very strict HDCP 2.2 licensing regulations. Given that HDCP 1.x has been broken so those who wanted to pirate 4K content need only use this device to do so! So HDfury is selling it, but the licensing org may not be aware exactly what they are selling. Yet.

I recently read about some speculation that HDCP 2.2 had been broken because pirated copies of Breaking Bad in 4K had appeared on torrent sites. I figured it was more likely someone had managed to snag it via hacking the Netflix app on some platform, but a device capable of converting HDCP 2.2 to 1.4 also allow it.

With such a device out there, it seems pointless to even bother to create 2.2, if anyone can trivially downconvert it HDCP 1.4. Thus I am really skeptical this HDfury product will be sold for long.

http://www.myce.com/news/is-the-hdcp-2-2-copy-protection-broken-by-movie-pirates-77142/


----------



## peds48

slice1900 said:


> I don't believe a device able to convert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4 is permitted under the very strict HDCP 2.2 licensing regulations. Given that HDCP 1.x has been broken so those who wanted to pirate 4K content need only use this device to do so! So HDfury is selling it, but the licensing org may not be aware exactly what they are selling. Yet.
> 
> I recently read about some speculation that HDCP 2.2 had been broken because pirated copies of Breaking Bad in 4K had appeared on torrent sites. I figured it was more likely someone had managed to snag it via hacking the Netflix app on some platform, but a device capable of converting HDCP 2.2 to 1.4 also allow it.
> 
> With such a device out there, it seems pointless to even bother to create 2.2, if anyone can trivially downconvert it HDCP 1.4. Thus I am really skeptical this HDfury product will be sold for long.
> 
> http://www.myce.com/news/is-the-hdcp-2-2-copy-protection-broken-by-movie-pirates-77142/


Wow, this just got more interesting.....


----------



## peds48

bealby said:


> I just had the Directv people out to replace my existing mini genie with a 4k mini genie. It did not work.
> I have a Pioneer Elite sc-85 and a Samsung UN65JS8500F 4k TV, all new and all 4k ready.
> 
> The Directv installer was told by his technical support people that Directv does not support 4k on ANY av receivers.
> you have to go directly to the TV.
> 
> This seems nuts,
> Does anyone have Directv running 4k through a receiver?
> 
> Thanks


They just sold you a lemon. Hopefully you still have tine to bring it back!.....


----------



## I WANT MORE

bealby said:


> I just had the Directv people out to replace my existing mini genie with a 4k mini genie. It did not work.
> I have a Pioneer Elite sc-85 and a Samsung UN65JS8500F 4k TV, all new and all 4k ready.
> 
> The Directv installer was told by his technical support people that Directv does not support 4k on ANY av receivers.
> you have to go directly to the TV.
> 
> This seems nuts,
> Does anyone have Directv running 4k through a receiver?
> 
> Thanks


I am using a C61K and routing it through a Pioneer vsx1130k and it works perfectly. 
The previous poster is correct about HDCP 2.2 being the issue. 
I had to upgrade from my Pioneer vsx 1023k because it was not HDCP 2.2 compliant and would not work with the D* C61k or the new Amazon 4k FireTv.


----------



## kpkingdon

btedford said:


> I do, I have a DENON AVR-X3100 and it works perfectly fine but it also has HDCP 2.2 which is a requirement for the 4k Mini to work. Both the TV and the A/V receiver need to support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. The SC-85 has HDCP 1.4 and HDMI 2.0, so it will not show 4k content while plugged into the A/V receiver (or the TV if it doesn't have HDCP 2.2 support.)


Interesting as the AVRX3100W uses a chipset that is not supposed to do HDCP2.2, only HDCP2.0. The AVRX3200W has a newer chipset that supports HDCP2.2. The AVRX3200W works with C61K/HR44 combination and passes 4k content through the AVRX3200W to a 4k/60fps HDMI2.0/HDCP2.2 enabled TV without any problem as I have that combination (TV is a Vizio P602 using HDMI input 5). Maybe late production AVRX3100Ws got an updated chipset which would be a bonus to some lucky individuals although I have not seen anything other than this post which would indicate it happened that way.


----------



## compnurd

Quick question for those with a 4K and a c61. I am well aware the c61 does not upscale. But. Is anyone noticing better PQ with there new tv? On the fence about a 4K this year but if only streaming content is going to look better I am going to hold. I have seen some comments out there the 4K tv s do a crappy job of up scaling 720p


----------



## AngryManMLS

I am having an issue with C61k here. I am having intermittent video/audio freezing/pausing happening especially at night. I've had several techs out who have replaced wires, run signal tests, etc - in other words everything but swap out the C61k for a different unit. Is it possible I have a bad unit? Or is there something else that is being overlooked?


----------



## HoTat2

AngryManMLS said:


> I am having an issue with C61k here. I am having intermittent video/audio freezing/pausing happening especially at night. I've had several techs out who have replaced wires, run signal tests, etc - in other words everything but swap out the C61k for a different unit. Is it possible I have a bad unit? Or is there something else that is being overlooked?


What model of Genie is feeding the C61K?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## I WANT MORE

AngryManMLS said:


> I am having an issue with C61k here. I am having intermittent video/audio freezing/pausing happening especially at night. I've had several techs out who have replaced wires, run signal tests, etc - in other words everything but swap out the C61k for a different unit. Is it possible I have a bad unit? Or is there something else that is being overlooked?


I have also experienced these issues.


----------



## I WANT MORE

compnurd said:


> Quick question for those with a 4K and a c61. I am well aware the c61 does not upscale. But. Is anyone noticing better PQ with there new tv? On the fence about a 4K this year but if only streaming content is going to look better I am going to hold. I have seen some comments out there the 4K tv s do a crappy job of up scaling 720p


4k upscaling depends on the display. Some are better than others.
In general I find no difference in PQ from the HR24 that I had to the C61k that I am now using.


----------



## AngryManMLS

HoTat2 said:


> What model of Genie is feeding the C61K?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Genie HR44-700


----------



## P Smith

AngryManMLS said:


> Genie HR44-700


Time to exchange to HR54 ...


----------



## AngryManMLS

P Smith said:


> Time to exchange to HR54 ...


From what the techs have told me the HR44 is the latest model so..... I have no idea.


----------



## inkahauts

When DIRECTV begins offering a linear 4K channel you'll need the hr54. But Im sure they will have a process for that swap.


----------



## AngryManMLS

inkahauts said:


> When DIRECTV begins offering a linear 4K channel you'll need the hr54. But Im sure they will have a process for that swap.


Awesome. Now only if I can get DirecTV to let me swap now so I can have this all set to go.

Has anyone done a comparison of the HR44 vs HR55 in terms of how well the C61 works with those two? Maybe I won't have the pausing/freezing issues on the HR55?


----------



## P Smith

AngryManMLS said:


> From what the techs have told me the HR44 is the latest model so..... I have no idea.


nope, the HR54 is the latest and it's support new function - 4k streaming linear channels


----------



## inkahauts

AngryManMLS said:


> Awesome. Now only if I can get DirecTV to let me swap now so I can have this all set to go.
> 
> Has anyone done a comparison of the HR44 vs HR55 in terms of how well the C61 works with those two? Maybe I won't have the pausing/freezing issues on the HR55?


They won't be able to do a swap for those now because at the moment they are the same. Until the 4K linear channels exsist nothing will be in place to make that change for 4K customers.


----------



## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> They won't be able to do a swap for those now because at the moment they are the same. Until the 4K linear channels exsist nothing will be in place to make that change for 4K customers.


By the time they start proper 4K broadcasting they might have something new that replaces it. Maybe a newer Genie that outputs 4K, maybe a new AT&T branded box that works for both Directv and Uverse which might not have any video output capability at all.


----------



## inkahauts

I don't see that happening in the next couple months. And I doubt we see anything but clients for 4K for a very long time, a few years at least.


----------



## slice1900

We may never seen anything but clients for 4K, if they adopt that 'gateway' model AT&T has been talking about.


----------



## lgroveman

bealby said:


> I just had the Directv people out to replace my existing mini genie with a 4k mini genie. It did not work.
> I have a Pioneer Elite sc-85 and a Samsung UN65JS8500F 4k TV, all new and all 4k ready.
> 
> The Directv installer was told by his technical support people that Directv does not support 4k on ANY av receivers.
> you have to go directly to the TV.
> 
> This seems nuts,
> Does anyone have Directv running 4k through a receiver?
> 
> Thanks


The other posters are correct. The SC-85 doesn't support HDCP 2.2. You are better off running the video direct to the TV and the audio through the SC-85. Not as clean a solution but the receiver rarely can add processing better then the TV's internal processors and many people complain about the receiver adding noise or other artifacts to the video signal. I have the VSX-90 which was upgraded has HDCP 2.2 and still don't run the video through it.


----------



## AngryManMLS

Good news is I just had a swap out a few days ago done on the C61. The new C61 is working perfect so far no pausing/freezing at all going on. Going to see how things go for another week but so far very happy. Also I've been told the HR-44 supports 4K from the "Office Of The President" but honestly I don't think sometimes even folks on that end fully understand things as well. We'll see.


----------



## peds48

AngryManMLS said:


> Good news is I just had a swap out a few days ago done on the C61. The new C61 is working perfect so far no pausing/freezing at all going on. Going to see how things go for another week but so far very happy. Also I've been told the HR-44 supports 4K from the "Office Of The President" but honestly I don't think sometimes even folks on that end fully understand things as well. We'll see.


and it does, in way. The HR44 supports 4K either via internet or satellite push, but it wont support linear (live) 4K

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## P Smith

Push method suggest using any media for download before start watching. Sometimes in full length of the event.


----------



## AngryManMLS

peds48 said:


> and it does, in way. The HR44 supports 4K either via internet or satellite push, but it wont support linear (live) 4K


So pretty much I'll have to wait until linear live 4K channels are up and running before DirecTV's own reps finally realize they are wrong, clueless, and inept to knowing their own product. In other words par for course and pretty expected and I'm not shocked in the least at all on this.


----------



## inkahauts

AngryManMLS said:


> So pretty much I'll have to wait until linear live 4K channels are up and running before DirecTV's own reps finally realize they are wrong, clueless, and inept to knowing their own product. In other words par for course and pretty expected and I'm not shocked in the least at all on this.


I wouldn't say that since you are assuming they should know about something that is not even out yet. They are 100% correct for what is available today. And things change in time.


----------



## AngryManMLS

inkahauts said:


> I wouldn't say that since you are assuming they should know about something that is not even out yet. They are 100% correct for what is available today. And things change in time.


You would think however given that we are not that far off from 4K linear channels being added that by now a better knowledge of what equipment one must have to view said content would be known. And especially with many people now buying 4K sets shouldn't it be to their advantage when people call in to make sure everyone is set to go when it comes time when those channels are live instead of being "ooops well we mislead you here you need this new Genie unit now too" later on.

No excuse DirecTV on this at all. None.


----------



## KyL416

The LNB required to get the RDBS channels isn't out yet, so they couldn't even set it up for you now. The HR54 only recently cameout and not every installer has them yet and many that do usually only have a limited supply.

When they're ready to release the RDBS LNB, more installers will have the HR54 available and they'll do the swaps for the people who actually need it when they do the LNB swap as part of an upgrade to linear 4K.


----------



## AngryManMLS

Yeah if I was told "we are still waiting for the LNB" or something to that effect I would be totally fine with that. But to tell me (and from the "Office Of The President" no less) that I'm set to go for 4K linear channels is very misleading. Just frustrating none the less but at the same time perhaps the folks at DTV themselves are confused on how to sell/explain their current 4K technology as well to people.

In regards to the LNB will this forthcoming one have capability to get the sat with the international channels (ie: CCTV News, Unimas)?


----------



## KyL416

The satellite setup screen does show both a Slimline-3DR and a Slimline-5DR model


----------



## slice1900

AngryManMLS said:


> Yeah if I was told "we are still waiting for the LNB" or something to that effect I would be totally fine with that. But to tell me (and from the "Office Of The President" no less) that I'm set to go for 4K linear channels is very misleading. Just frustrating none the less but at the same time perhaps the folks at DTV themselves are confused on how to sell/explain their current 4K technology as well to people.
> 
> In regards to the LNB will this forthcoming one have capability to get the sat with the international channels (ie: CCTV News, Unimas)?


Well you are ready to go for the first few 4K channels, which will not use reverse band so you won't need a new LNB. Similar to like they did with HD, they are starting out using the old dish, and will migrate to a new one (well just new LNB in this case) when they have everything ready and there are enough 4K channels coming that it will matter.

For all we know the HR34 & HR44 will work fine for these early 4K broadcasts. The info from the other site says the first 4K channels will be one channel per transponder, so there are no technical limitations that would prevent an HR34 from receiving those 4K channels when connected to a C61K or 4K RVU TV. Whether they allow or not I can't say for sure, but if HR54s are not available as widely as they need, it would make sense to allow it on the older Genies for a while. When they are ready to change things they'll give people plenty of warning, just like they did when they got rid of the MPEG2 HD channels.


----------



## AngryManMLS

And if that's the case with one per transponder right now and eventually reverse band down the road that might be a good thing as newer/better hardware will be available down the road for 4K. Also my replacement C61 that I've had for a few days now is pausing/freezing a few times during Chelsea vs some team in white jerseys on USA Network.


----------



## slice1900

Yes, first generation hardware is always more expensive, runs hotter, and so forth. If the rumors from the other site are true that the HR54 is the last Genie and new hardware designed to support both Directv and Uverse will arrive next year, even the HR54 is a stopgap solution to this - perhaps intended mainly to allow for early testing and initial deployment of 4K using bonded transponders but not the long term 4K solution.


----------



## HoTat2

KyL416 said:


> The 4K content is coming via satellite pushes on hidden channels in the 9000s:
> *CINE 9930 PUSH - 4K 1 (D10 Txp 10)
> *CINE 9931 PUSH - 4K 2 (D10 Txp 10)
> *CINE 9932 PUSH - 4K 3 (D10 Txp 10)
> *CINE 9933 PUSH - 4K 4 (D10 Txp 10)
> *CINE 9934 PUSH - 4K 5 (D10 Txp 10)


Pardon me if I missed this, but just to quickly clarify. Are the files for this DIRECTV 4K pushed content done using the new HEVC compression or H.265? Or the same MPEG-4 or H.264 compression used for HD and some SD?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## P Smith

It could be getting from C61K if it has diag for that, SI [APG] tables does not carry such info.


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## leww37334

so does this c61 have a hard drive? Or can you connect an esata drive?


----------



## NR4P

leww37334 said:


> so does this c61 have a hard drive? Or can you connect an esata drive?


C61K is a client, no HDD support


----------



## leww37334

ok thks, I currently am at 17% free on my hr44, looks like I add a 2 tb drive to it.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

inkahauts said:


> I don't see that happening in the next couple months. And I doubt we see anything but clients for 4K for a very long time, a few years at least.





slice1900 said:


> We may never seen anything but clients for 4K, if they adopt that 'gateway' model AT&T has been talking about.


I don't mean to sound rude, as I highly respect your knowledge on here, but I hope you're both wrong about this. I hope D* is smart enough to come out with an all one 4K DVR that can receive, record and output 4K. Having to have 2 receivers to view 4K channels seems like a step backwards to me, in addition to having to pay more set top box fees.

I guess time will tell.


----------



## NR4P

I suspect they know how many homes are 1 receiver only. And the 2 receiver issue affects only that group.


----------



## peds48

TheRatPatrol said:


> I don't mean to sound rude, as I highly respect your knowledge on here, but I hope you're both wrong about this. I hope D* is smart enough to come out with an all one 4K DVR that can receive, record and output 4K. Having to have 2 receivers to view 4K channels seems like a step backwards to me, in addition to having to pay more set top box fees.
> 
> I guess time will tell.


I remember about 10 years ago that I had and MP3 player for my music and a flip phone to make phone calls. Now I have one device that does both. Point is if the market demands such device it will come in due time.


----------



## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> It could be getting from C61K if it has diag for that, SI [APG] tables does not carry such info.


Ok thanks, didn't think that info. would be in the system tables, but was hoping someone happened to know by some other means.

Is it that the Genie can't decode HEVC, or that it can't generate a 4K signal in compliance with ITU Rec. 2020, or both I wonder? ....

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts

HoTat2 said:


> Ok thanks, didn't think that info. would be in the system tables, but was hoping someone happened to know by some other means.
> 
> Is it that the Genie can't decode HEVC, or that it can't generate a 4K signal in compliance with ITU Rec. 2020, or both I wonder? ....
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Genies don't have hevc decodes. The c61k does,and is likely part of if not the only reason it's so huge by comparison to other clients.


----------



## inkahauts

TheRatPatrol said:


> I don't mean to sound rude, as I highly respect your knowledge on here, but I hope you're both wrong about this. I hope D* is smart enough to come out with an all one 4K DVR that can receive, record and output 4K. Having to have 2 receivers to view 4K channels seems like a step backwards to me, in addition to having to pay more set top box fees.
> 
> I guess time will tell.


While I agree I'd like to see it, I think slice is closer to right on this. Part of the reason I think that,have you seen a c61k. It's huge! And hevc decodes are still new, so why shove one into an expensive box that very few will use right now, and have it bog down the unit in the long run....

I also have a feeling we will see a DVR based server as slice suggests that has no video outputs... I think that would be covered by the advanced receiver fee,and then all other boxes would be clients... So that would eliminate the double charge for one 4K tv households.

But who knows... No matter what I think it'll be more than a year before we see some sort of real solution for this.


----------



## slice1900

TheRatPatrol said:


> I don't mean to sound rude, as I highly respect your knowledge on here, but I hope you're both wrong about this. I hope D* is smart enough to come out with an all one 4K DVR that can receive, record and output 4K. Having to have 2 receivers to view 4K channels seems like a step backwards to me, in addition to having to pay more set top box fees.
> 
> I guess time will tell.


The monthly fee Directv charges is a "mirroring fee", for showing content on the TV. They won't charge that fee for a box that can't display anything, anymore than they charge a monthly fee for your dish or your CCK.

While it is kind of crappy that today those who have only one TV or all 4K TVs have to pay the extra fee, I think Directv just doesn't care about that right now. 4K is targeting early adopters, and early adopters aren't price sensitive. When they get a proper solution ready those customers won't pay a fee for a receiver that isn't connected, so it will be corrected by the time 4K leaves the early adopter phase. At some point Directv will add a 4K Fee like the old HD fee, so you might wish for the day you only paid $6.50/month extra to get 4K 

Given that Directv is ending the Genie line and there will be a new line of AT&T branded equipment designed for both Directv and Uverse products, it makes sense to minimize investment in the line.


----------



## leww37334

Ok managed to get my Samsung 6950 set up as an RVU, no c61 necessary, now I need a multifunction remote to control it. My Harmony doesn't do it, and the rc72 does not have a way to switch inputs.


----------



## peds48

leww37334 said:


> Ok managed to get my Samsung 6950 set up as an RVU, no c61 necessary, now I need a multifunction remote to control it. My Harmony doesn't do it, * and the rc72 does not have a way to switch inputs.*


it does, press and hold ENTER, keep pressing to toggle.

to program the RC72 to the Samsung as an RVU remote, press and hold MUTE and SELECT, LED flashes twice. enter 5, LED flashes, then enter 4000

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## leww37334

tried it, all I get is the equivalent of the old blue button mini guide at the bottom of the screen. What I am looking for is the switch to tv, bluray player, etc

already got the 54000 entered and working


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## Laxguy

Press and hold a bit longer....


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## leww37334

tried for 30 seconds, still didn't work, 

also pressing menu, HDTV brings up TV picture menu, not the traditional tv resolutions selection, maybe that is a feature?


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## Laxguy

No, it's a one or two second push. 

Check out Info. Some things have changed.


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## slice1900

slice1900 said:


> I don't believe a device able to convert HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4 is permitted under the very strict HDCP 2.2 licensing regulations. Given that HDCP 1.x has been broken so those who wanted to pirate 4K content need only use this device to do so! So HDfury is selling it, but the licensing org may not be aware exactly what they are selling. Yet.
> 
> I recently read about some speculation that HDCP 2.2 had been broken because pirated copies of Breaking Bad in 4K had appeared on torrent sites. I figured it was more likely someone had managed to snag it via hacking the Netflix app on some platform, but a device capable of converting HDCP 2.2 to 1.4 also allow it.
> 
> With such a device out there, it seems pointless to even bother to create 2.2, if anyone can trivially downconvert it HDCP 1.4. Thus I am really skeptical this HDfury product will be sold for long.
> 
> http://www.myce.com/news/is-the-hdcp-2-2-copy-protection-broken-by-movie-pirates-77142/


As I thought, this device isn't long for the market. If you need/want you, better buy now:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/05/chipzilla_warner_launch_lawsuit_over_hdcp_cryptobusting_boxen/


----------



## Stevies3

Laxguy said:


> No, it's a one or two second push.
> 
> Check out Info. Some things have changed.


From what I remember, You can't switch inputs with a RC71,72 or 73 remote when programed via the 54000 code for Samsung. its a known bug I have RVU myself...


----------



## inkahauts

Correct. You can't change inputs on a tv that's working as a RVU that's a Samsung. No idea if it works on other RVU tvs.


----------



## marcusadolfsson

slice1900 said:


> As I thought, this device isn't long for the market. If you need/want you, better buy now:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/05/chipzilla_warner_launch_lawsuit_over_hdcp_cryptobusting_boxen/


Thank for that. Ironically reading the "defense" post on HDFury's website, they linked to this HDCP2.2 stripper that Amazon sells.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016O5NMMC

I ordered one and tested it with C61K, works great for $39!


----------



## slice1900

marcusadolfsson said:


> Thank for that. Ironically reading the "defense" post on HDFury's website, they linked to this HDCP2.2 stripper that Amazon sells.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016O5NMMC
> 
> I ordered one and tested it with C61K, works great for $39!


Just be aware that unlicensed splitters, especially ones that also function as a HDCP stripper, have a limited lifespan. HDCP has provision for keys to be revoked, so all it will take is a firmware update the device that connects to it (i.e. C61K, 4K Blu Ray player, etc.) that revokes the forged key it uses and it will no longer work. Since HDCP 1.x was cracked they don't worry as much about this as they used to, but I expect they will be more aggressive about quickly revoking forged HDCP 2.x keys so the lifespan of this device may be as short as a few months.


----------



## alnielsen

slice1900 said:


> Just be aware that unlicensed splitters, especially ones that also function as a HDCP stripper, have a limited lifespan. HDCP has provision for keys to be revoked, so all it will take is a firmware update the device that connects to it (i.e. C61K, 4K Blu Ray player, etc.) that revokes the forged key it uses and it will no longer work. Since HDCP 1.x was cracked they don't worry as much about this as they used to, but I expect they will be more aggressive about quickly revoking forged HDCP 2.x keys so the lifespan of this device may be as short as a few months.


While changing encryption keys is possible. I would think that the existing community would howl if they had to reflash all their devices firmware each time a limited popularity device such as this stripper came out.
As the UHD community grows, it's going to be even less likely there will be a change.


----------



## slice1900

alnielsen said:


> While changing encryption keys is possible. I would think that the existing community would howl if they had to reflash all their devices firmware each time a limited popularity device such as this stripper came out.
> As the UHD community grows, it's going to be even less likely there will be a change.


The cheap splitters don't support a firmware flash - you'd need a USB port on it.


----------



## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> The cheap splitters don't support a firmware flash - you'd need a USB port on it.


No worry, HDMI specs have a provision to send/receive data (old style DDC support).


----------



## slice1900

P Smith said:


> No worry, HDMI specs have a provision to send/receive data (old style DDC support).


Yes, the HDMI specs have that ability but just because the capability exists doesn't mean anyone is using it. You'd need an HDMI source that is able to download and send that firmware. A Directv receiver sure won't. In theory a PC graphics card could with the right driver - though since I've never seen that capability mentioned the 'right driver' probably only exists in theory.

Suffice to say that a HDMI splitter sold by a fly by night Chinese company out to make a quick buck is not going to spend a single penny more than they have to on a feature that would be nearly impossible to support even if they offered it.


----------



## P Smith

theory ?

have you heard about EDID ? do you know it could be reprogrammed in a field ? what part of HDMI is support the feature ? - DDC

BTW, some chineese gadgets carry FW/SW written by people on other side of a big pond


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## slice1900

The argument is pointless, unless you can prove to me that model of splitter supports a firmware update (perhaps by finding a website for it with a firmware download, and instructions for how it is delivered)


----------



## Tom Robertson

Isn't the whole splitter sidebar about the connected devices more than the splitter. At least based on this post, which reads the devices will need firmware upgrades, not the splitter.

If the splitter is using one of the keys from the one of the end devices, does the splitter need the upgrade? (Or am I missing a key point?) 

Peace,
Tom



slice1900 said:


> Just be aware that unlicensed splitters, especially ones that also function as a HDCP stripper, have a limited lifespan. HDCP has provision for keys to be revoked, so all it will take is a firmware update the device that connects to it (i.e. C61K, 4K Blu Ray player, etc.) that revokes the forged key it uses and it will no longer work. Since HDCP 1.x was cracked they don't worry as much about this as they used to, but I expect they will be more aggressive about quickly revoking forged HDCP 2.x keys so the lifespan of this device may be as short as a few months.


----------



## slice1900

Tom Robertson said:


> Isn't the whole splitter sidebar about the connected devices more than the splitter. At least based on this post, which reads the devices will need firmware upgrades, not the splitter.
> 
> If the splitter is using one of the keys from the one of the end devices, does the splitter need the upgrade? (Or am I missing a key point?)


There are three types of HDMI devices, sources (like a Directv receiver) sinks (like a TV) and I can't remember what they call the third type but it is basically both a source and a sink. A sink uses HDCP keys to authenticate to the source that it is allowed to receive HDCP protected content. A source is required to keep a list of HDCP keys that have been revoked and are not allowed to be authorized (for keys in sink devices that are stolen or forged)

A powered splitter is the third type, both a source and a sink. If it follows the rules, it will authenticate with the source on its input, and also allow the sink(s) connected to its outputs to authenticate with it - and pass that information on to its source since HDCP supports trees seven (yes SEVEN) layers deep, with up to 127 connected devices in the tree (but your Directv receiver won't support nearly that many, so you wouldn't be able to use multiple splitters to connect one Directv receiver to more than probably 16 TVs)

A powered splitter that functions as an "HDCP stripper" operates as a sink only. It appears like a sink (TV) to the source device (Directv receiver) and flouts the rules by distributing unencrypted video to attached sinks. So if its key appears on the revoked key list, which Directv and all other HDCP licensed companies making source devices are required to regularly update, it will refuse to output its video to the splitter. So today it works, tomorrow it doesn't when a firmware update to the C61K adds its key to the revoked list.


----------



## peds48

The third type is a repeater, or something to that effect, Like the ones found on AVRs


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## I WANT MORE

For anyone interested there are several new FREE 4K UHD nature programs. 
They look spectacular.


----------



## leww37334

client = no hard drive 4k = more record space needed

went the client route already, won't do it again


----------



## P Smith

leww37334 said:


> client = no hard drive 4k = more record space needed
> 
> went the client route already, *won't do it again*


what is your alternative ?


----------



## CraigerM

Would DTV ever do a wireless Genie Mini that doesn't need the wireless video bridge? That it would just connect to the HR-44 and 54 using their built in WIFI? If so how good would the WIFI video signal be? Would their be occasional pixilation and have the same video quality as the HR-44/54?


----------



## leww37334

P Smith said:


> what is your alternative ?


create a real dvr with a real had drive that will output 4k. My roku 4 has no problem outputing 4K , my tv shows amazon 4k with no need for an intervening device.


----------



## inkahauts

leww37334 said:


> create a real dvr with a real had drive that will output 4k. My roku 4 has no problem outputing 4K , my tv shows amazon 4k with no need for an intervening device.


There's a bunch of reasons they didn't go this route and I don't blame them for the short term on doing it this way. But a year from now with the hopper 3 now out they need to have something a heck of a lot more impressive.


----------



## inkahauts

CraigerM said:


> Would DTV ever do a wireless Genie Mini that doesn't need the wireless video bridge? That it would just connect to the HR-44 and 54 using their built in WIFI? If so how good would the WIFI video signal be? Would their be occasional pixilation and have the same video quality as the HR-44/54?


I doubt it and I wouldn't want them to. Much more flexible with the separate wvb.


----------



## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> There's a bunch of reasons they didn't go this route and I don't blame them for the short term on doing it this way. But a year from now with the hopper 3 now out they need to have something a heck of a lot more impressive.


I don't get why people are hung up on having a DVR that outputs 4K. So what if they never make one? Let's say a year from now they offer a 7 tuner box that has no video output, but let you have more than one and they work together seamlessly so two act like a 14 tuner box, or three like a 21 tuner box. Exactly what's the gain in having a Hopper 3 over that?


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> I don't get why people are hung up on having a DVR that outputs 4K. So what if they never make one? Let's say a year from now they offer a 7 tuner box that has no video output, but let you have more than one and they work together seamlessly so two act like a 14 tuner box, or three like a 21 tuner box. Exactly what's the gain in having a Hopper 3 over that?


If they went the server only and client only that'd be fine. But right now it's basically requiring two receivers for even people with one tv and frankly the argument of that's not a big deal is false since most people want their main receiver on their main tv which is also likely where their 4K tv is. Plus there will be plenty of people with only one tv. Sadly That's just getting screwed right now


----------



## bobnielsen

inkahauts said:


> If they went the server only and client only that'd be fine. But right now it's basically requiring two receivers for even people with one tv and frankly the argument of that's not a big deal is false since most people want their main receiver on their main tv which is also likely where their 4K tv is. Plus there will be plenty of people with only one tv. Sadly That's just getting screwed right now


Having just two TVs I had the same concern but find that using the C61K mini for my main viewing isn't a drawback. Although there are plenty of Directv customers with only one tv, I suspect that the percentage of them with 4K sets is quite small. I can't watch more than one tv at a time so I guess I am also getting screwed, but I never looked at it that way.


----------



## sddenon2113ci

Is anyone having problems with their Denon AVR-2113CI and the 4k mini? For some reason when I route the signal through my 4K ready receiver to my 4K sony tv, the genie messages that the TV is not 4K compatible. When I connect the TV directly to the genie there are no issues and streams in 4k. I've tried to change the settings to my receiver video output to no help. I am wondering if it's in issue with not updating the firmware? I am lost for solutions. I've tried looking up the issue on the internet and can not find anyone having similar issues.


----------



## peds48

sddenon2113ci said:


> Is anyone having problems with their Denon AVR-2113CI and the 4k mini? For some reason when I route the signal through my 4K ready receiver to my 4K sony tv, the genie messages that the TV is not 4K compatible. When I connect the TV directly to the genie there are no issues and streams in 4k. I've tried to change the settings to my receiver video output to no help. I am wondering if it's in issue with not updating the firmware? I am lost for solutions. I've tried looking up the issue on the internet and can not find anyone having similar issues.


I can't seem to find the specs, but in order for it t work with the C61K, it needs to support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 also it needs to support 4K resolution at 60 frames,


----------



## P Smith

sddenon2113ci said:


> Is anyone having problems with their Denon AVR-2113CI and the 4k mini? For some reason when I route the signal through my 4K ready receiver to my 4K sony tv, the genie messages that the TV is not 4K compatible. When I connect the TV directly to the genie there are no issues and streams in 4k. I've tried to change the settings to my receiver video output to no help. I am wondering if it's in issue with not updating the firmware? I am lost for solutions. I've tried looking up the issue on the internet and can not find anyone having similar issues.


call Denon for upgrade its FW


----------



## I WANT MORE

sddenon2113ci said:


> Is anyone having problems with their Denon AVR-2113CI and the 4k mini? For some reason when I route the signal through my 4K ready receiver to my 4K sony tv, the genie messages that the TV is not 4K compatible. When I connect the TV directly to the genie there are no issues and streams in 4k. I've tried to change the settings to my receiver video output to no help. I am wondering if it's in issue with not updating the firmware? I am lost for solutions. I've tried looking up the issue on the internet and can not find anyone having similar issues.


I am not familiar with you AVR either. If it states 4K passthrough forget it. Any manufacturer that claims that is lying!
If the AVR is not HDCP 2.2 it WILL NOT pass the 4K UHD signal.


----------



## peds48

I WANT MORE said:


> I am not familiar with you AVR either. If it states 4K passthrough forget it. Any manufacturer that claims that is lying!
> If the AVR is not HDCP 2.2 it WILL NOT pass the 4K UHD signal.


yeap, that is as much as I could find. The docs states 4K up scaling and 4K pass-through. I figured this AVR is not 4K compatible with the C61K

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## bobnielsen

I WANT MORE said:


> I am not familiar with you AVR either. If it states 4K passthrough forget it. Any manufacturer that claims that is lying!
> If the AVR is not HDCP 2.2 it WILL NOT pass the 4K UHD signal.


In addition, you need HDMI 2.0, which specifies 60 frames per second. Some devices only are HDMI 1.4 (24 fps) which is adequate for movies, however it is incompatible with the C61K (I don't know how this impacts passthrough).


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## WestDC

While searching this model for spec's on amazon - The Site says their is a newer model of this unit and it list 4k Specks as well as HDMI Specks.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-2113CI-Networking-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00829USIU?SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00829USIU&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=56afd6e048308f0e9842bf9a

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X2200W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B00ZPTBNXY/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

You may be looking at a upgrade


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## HoTat2

Hey, for those with HR54s and C61Ks or 4K RVU TVs ...

According to Scott over at Satelliteguys.us, via the iamanedgecutter group. The first live 4K broadcast will be of the Northern Trust PGA Golf event on February 17-21, on ch. 9801...









No indication this event will be on the Reverse Band.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## carl6

HoTat2 said:


> Hey, for those with HR54s and C61Ks or 4K RVU TVs ...
> 
> According to Scott over at Satelliteguys.us, via the iamanedgecutter group. The first live 4K broadcast will be of the Northern Trust PGA Golf event on February 17-21, on ch. 9801...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tapatalk_1454371555810.png
> 
> No indication this event will be on the Reverse Band.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


I think we can safely say it will NOT be on the Reverse Band.


----------



## samrs

carl6 said:


> I think we can safely say it will NOT be on the Reverse Band.


Yeah, most likely the 119. After all, that's where it started.


----------



## P Smith

carl6 said:


> I think we can safely say it will NOT be on the Reverse Band.


It would be a shock for slice !


----------



## uscpsycho

Jacob Braun said:


> http://iamanedgecutter.com/showthread.php/153-C61-Edgecutter-Review
> 
> It's here! DIRECTV 4K content on any TV that supports HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, and 60fps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C61_Edgecutter_Review.pdf


Stupid question warning...

What happens if you connect to a 2.0/2.2/30fps device? I get why HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are requirements but no so much 30hz.

I ask because I want to use an HDMI matrix switch that can only do 4k at 30hz but meets the other requirements. Attached TV's are 60hz but they are downstream from the matrix. Any chance that will work?


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## P Smith

it's pretty easy to get the point - C61K _require_ HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 and 4K60 FPS from a source


----------



## HoTat2

uscpsycho said:


> Stupid question warning...
> 
> What happens if you connect to a 2.0/2.2/30fps device? I get why HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are requirements but no so much 30hz.
> 
> I ask because I want to use an HDMI matrix switch that can only do 4k at 30hz but meets the other requirements. Attached TV's are 60hz but they are downstream from the matrix. Any chance that will work?


No good, sorry,... C61K requires all intervening equipment between itself and the TV to meet all three criteria as well.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## uscpsycho

HoTat2 said:


> No good, sorry,... C61K requires all intervening equipment between itself and the TV to meet all three criteria as well.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


That's what I assumed. I get why DirecTV demands hdmi 2.0/hdcp 2.2 but why do they care if people watch at 30hz or 60hz. They're needlessly making a lot of 4K equipment incompatible.

In a pinch, any reason why one of these converters wouldn't work in between?
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdcp-2-2-to-hdcp-1-4-converter.html


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## slice1900

uscpsycho said:


> That's what I assumed. I get why DirecTV demands hdmi 2.0/hdcp 2.2 but why do they care if people watch at 30hz or 60hz. They're needlessly making a lot of 4K equipment incompatible.
> 
> In a pinch, any reason why one of these converters wouldn't work in between?
> http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdcp-2-2-to-hdcp-1-4-converter.html


They require 60 Hz because they will be broadcasting some 4K content at 60 Hz. Otherwise people lacking 60 Hz capability would be asking why 60 Hz channels look jittery when every other frame is dropped.

That device you show may be against their HDCP license, which may not allow a device to convert a higher level of HDCP protection to a lower one. I don't know for sure but since HDCP 1.4 has been cracked a device like this effectively allows removing HDCP protection entirely.

They've already acted to bust another box that completely strips HDCP 2.2 protection (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/05/chipzilla_warner_launch_lawsuit_over_hdcp_cryptobusting_boxen/)so they may have this taken off the market as well. You might say "who cares if they pull it from the market once I've already bought mine" but they can revoke the HDCP keys the device uses _after_ you buy it which would make it stop working. So buy one at your own risk.


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## uscpsycho

slice1900 said:


> They require 60 Hz because they will be broadcasting some 4K content at 60 Hz. Otherwise people lacking 60 Hz capability would be asking why 60 Hz channels look jittery when every other frame is dropped.
> 
> That device you show may be against their HDCP license, which may not allow a device to convert a higher level of HDCP protection to a lower one. I don't know for sure but since HDCP 1.4 has been cracked a device like this effectively allows removing HDCP protection entirely.
> 
> They've already acted to bust another box that completely strips HDCP 2.2 protection (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/05/chipzilla_warner_launch_lawsuit_over_hdcp_cryptobusting_boxen/)so they may have this taken off the market as well. You might say "who cares if they pull it from the market once I've already bought mine" but they can revoke the HDCP keys the device uses _after_ you buy it which would make it stop working. So buy one at your own risk.


Is the same true for devices the mirror an HDMI signal to two devices? Is that also a violation of HDCP which could result in a device being bricked? For instance something like this: http://www.hdtvsupply.com/1x2-hdmi-splitter-hdmi-2-0.html


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## P Smith

your question is behind a scoop of the thread - there are many specialized forums/threads dedicated to the devices


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## slice1900

uscpsycho said:


> Is the same true for devices the mirror an HDMI signal to two devices? Is that also a violation of HDCP which could result in a device being bricked? For instance something like this: http://www.hdtvsupply.com/1x2-hdmi-splitter-hdmi-2-0.html


Splitters are not a violation they are supported by HDCP licensing, but the cheaper non-brand-name splitters often use forged keys that are eventually revoked meaning it stops working. You can tell that's happened to yours if your HDMI splitter stops working when an HDCP input is used but works fine with a non HDCP input (like say your computer)

Since the master key for HDCP 2.2 hasn't been cracked like the 1.4 master key was, HDCP 2.2 compliant splitters are likely to be safe (and more expensive)


----------



## P Smith

back to the topic:

- the time is almost there - 4k Linear channels will come soon:
+4KTest 9800 40966 13 136 1010 1012 15 4K Linear Test Channel 4K Linear Test Channel. 
+4KTest 9801 40966 13 12 1010 1012 10 4K Linear Test Ch #2 4K Linear Test Channel #2.

to conclude recent speculation: no DVB-S2X, no transponder's bonding, no reverse band, no new LNB will require for that, *only HR54 and C61K client*


----------



## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> back to the topic:
> 
> - the time is almost there - 4k Linear channels will come soon:
> +4KTest 9800 40966 13 136 1010 1012 15 4K Linear Test Channel 4K Linear Test Channel.
> +4KTest 9801 40966 13 12 1010 1012 10 4K Linear Test Ch #2 4K Linear Test Channel #2.
> 
> to conclude recent speculation: no DVB-S2X, no transponder's bonding, no reverse band, no new LNB will require for that, *only HR54 and C61K client*


Thanks, good catch ...

Two test channels ....

D10 xpndr 13 and D14 xpndr 13.

So looks like nothing special about the transmission methodology for the upcomming intial 4K broadcasts at least. Just Ka band/MPEG-4 like virtually all HD (and some SD).

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900

If it isn't using transponder bonding (which I didn't expect at this point) why the requirement for the HR54? I guess Directv is requiring it "just because"? Are these channels something anyone with a HR54/C61K can view, or only those in the CE program?

Do we even know how a channel on a bonded transponder will show up in that table? They must have some way to indicate that two transponders are required for the channel, but there is only room to list one. If the second transponder was always N+1 they could use a different number - so transponders 12 & 13 might be referred to as transponder 36. Alternatively, the listed transponder could contain information in its data stream to tell the receiver what the second transponder in the pair is. That would make changing to a 4K channel on a bonded transponder take longer, though depending on the HR54 tuner's acquisition time such extra delay may not be noticeable (waiting for a GOP in the video stream is the main source of channel changing delays)


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## leww37334

I wish directv a lot of luck, 4 different directv installers have tried to make 4k work for me, all failed


----------



## slice1900

leww37334 said:


> I wish directv a lot of luck, 4 different directv installers have tried to make 4k work for me, all failed


Just curious, what problems did they run into? Did the C61K not pass the 4K tests with your TV? If that's the case, there's no point in trying again, replacing your 4K TV would be your only option.


----------



## leww37334

slice1900 said:


> Just curious, what problems did they run into? Did the C61K not pass the 4K tests with your TV? If that's the case, there's no point in trying again, replacing your 4K TV would be your only option.


except that my TV is one of the samsungs recommended by directv, bTW amazon 4k and roku 4k work great

problems ranged from no picture passed to ff and rewind having 1-3 sec lag


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## inkahauts

The lag could have been as simple as old software on the c61 that needs to be updated. I wouldn't have passed on the install for that myself. No picture sounds like an issue but who knows why. 

Was it one of the samsungs that has a built in RVU client as well?


----------



## leww37334

inkahauts said:


> The lag could have been as simple as old software on the c61 that needs to be updated. I wouldn't have passed on the install for that myself. No picture sounds like an issue but who knows why.
> 
> Was it one of the samsungs that has a built in RVU client as well?


apologize for not enough information, the RVU client was the approach was the one that yielded extreme lag, the c61 yielded no picture, no one mentioned a c61 firmware upgrade


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## inkahauts

leww37334 said:


> apologize for not enough information, the RVU client was the approach was the one that yielded extreme lag, the c61 yielded no picture, no one mentioned a c61 firmware upgrade


What do you have running that tv now?


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## leww37334

inkahauts said:


> What do you have running that tv now?


HR44, which is working fine


----------



## inkahauts

leww37334 said:


> HR44, which is working fine


Awh ok. Do you have any genie mini clients elsewhere in the house?


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## leww37334

no, just one genie and one hr44.


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## HoTat2

Say, can anyone with an HR54 and C61K actually see UHD channels 9800 or 9801 in the guide?

Just curious as Gary's latest TPN map summary has the channels now listed as "active from test."

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## CraigerM

Do we know if 4k is only going to be for the Genie Mini's?


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## Go Beavs

CraigerM said:


> Do we know if 4k is only going to be for the Genie Mini's?


 Any RVU capable 4k TV should work as well.


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## P Smith

the question of appearance the bonding tpns been answered not that long time ago, when such pseudo-bonding records displayed into SI tables; it was, technically speaking, different kind of records


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## patmurphey

leww37334 said:


> except that my TV is one of the samsungs recommended by directv, bTW amazon 4k and roku 4k work great
> 
> problems ranged from no picture passed to ff and rewind having 1-3 sec lag


What year Samsung? It may need an update with an Evolution box, latest is SEK-*3500U*/ZA. Some less expensive models don't support that upgrade.


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## leww37334

1 y



patmurphey said:


> What year Samsung? It may need an update with an Evolution box, latest is SEK-*3500U*/ZA. Some less expensive models don't support that upgrade.


bought 1 year ago, probably 2014 model 50uhd6950, will accept an evolution kit looks like they are $400, new tv is $800


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## Ken776

A few minutes ago I just tried tuning into Channels 9800 & 9801 and all I get is 'channel unavailble'.

I've got an HR54 & C61 and have been able to download quite a bit of 4K material from Directv thus far.

I'm hoping there simply is no testing going on right now or, if it is, something is wrong with my setup. Can anyone confirm?


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## slice1900

It is supposed to be for the Northern Trust golf tournament in a couple weeks. There isn't anything broadcasting on them right now.


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## Ken776

Thanks. The only reason I tuned was to see if I was receiving the test signals on those channels that was discussed yesterday. Apparently there's no testing going on today...hopefully.


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## Smuuth

Ken776 said:


> A few minutes ago I just tried tuning into Channels 9800 & 9801 and all I get is 'channel unavailble'.
> 
> I've got an HR54 & C61 and have been able to download quite a bit of 4K material from Directv thus far.
> 
> I'm hoping there simply is no testing going on right now or, if it is, something is wrong with my setup. Can anyone confirm?





slice1900 said:


> It is supposed to be for the Northern Trust golf tournament in a couple weeks. There isn't anything broadcasting on them right now.


Yes there is. Linear 4K content is on both channels as I type this.


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## HoTat2

Smuuth said:


> Yes there is. Linear 4K content is on both channels as I type this.


There is?

What's showing specifically as testing?

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## Rockaway1836

HoTat2 said:


> There is?
> 
> What's showing specifically as testing?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Big Knockout Boxing.


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## Smuuth

HoTat2 said:


> There is?
> 
> What's showing specifically as testing?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


At the moment, there is BKB boxing occasionally alternating with a DIRECTV logo.


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## HoTat2

Rockaway1836 said:


> Big Knockout Boxing.





Smuuth said:


> At the moment, there is BKB boxing occasionally alternating with a DIRECTV logo.


Thanks. ..

Any info. button or some other on the TV set to tell the frame rate you're receiving when the boxing is on?

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## Smuuth

HoTat2 said:


> Thanks. ..
> 
> Any info. button or some other on the TV set to tell the frame rate you're receiving when the boxing is on?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Resolution: 3840x2160
Vertical Frequency: 24


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## bill buckner

Ken776 said:


> A few minutes ago I just tried tuning into Channels 9800 & 9801 and all I get is 'channel unavailble'.
> 
> I've got an HR54 & C61 and have been able to download quite a bit of 4K material from Directv thus far.
> 
> I'm hoping there simply is no testing going on right now or, if it is, something is wrong with my setup. Can anyone confirm?


I have the same problem, tried resetting my recievers and still nothing.


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## slice1900

I wonder if you need the CE firmware to be able to view those channels?


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## P Smith

Smuuth said:


> Resolution: 3840x2160
> Vertical Frequency: *24*


Duh, are we expected 60 FPS on linear 4k channels? Seems to me 3840x2160 24 FPS would be the gold standard of DTV's 4K distribution.
Would be interesting to measure bitrate of the video PID ...


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## slice1900

P Smith said:


> Duh, are we expected 60 FPS on linear 4k channels? Seems to me 3840x2160 24 FPS would be the gold standard of DTV's 4K distribution.
> Would be interesting to measure bitrate of the video PID ...


The C61K wouldn't be testing for 60 fps if they didn't intend to broadcast at 60 fps. That doesn't mean they were broadcasting today at 60 fps.

I suppose golf would be OK at 24 fps, but a sport like football or basketball is going to suffer - I'd personally rather watch those at 720p60 than 4Kp24.


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## P Smith

counting how fast swinging a club, how fast is moving golf ball for reach first 17 holes ... nay, the 24 FPS wouldn't satisfy watchers


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## HoTat2

P Smith said:



> counting how fast swinging a club, how fast is moving golf ball for reach first 17 holes ... nay, the 24 FPS wouldn't satisfy watchers


But that's why I was curious as to the frame rate, since golf is still a field sport with some (though not many granted) fast moving scenes like that. So thought they might be testing at 60 fps. Particularly in light of the boxing match content they are using to test with.

Certainly have the bandwidth as I notice in Gary's most recent TPN maps, CONUS xpndr 13 on both D10 and D14 have no other programming assigned outside the single UHD channels.

Wow, these are really digital SCPC transmissions. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## Ken776

Smuuth said:


> Yes there is. Linear 4K content is on both channels as I type this.


So any ideas why I showed 'channel unavailable' with a HR54 & C61?

I've seen reference to the 'CE Firmware update' that might be necessary. What exactly is that and can you force that update? If so, how?

Is that the difference between those getting these channels and those that aren't (assuming all have the HR54 & C61)?


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## Go Beavs

Ken776 said:


> So any ideas why I showed 'channel unavailable' with a HR54 & C61?
> 
> I've seen reference to the 'CE Firmware update' that might be necessary. What exactly is that and can you force that update? If so, how?
> 
> Is that the difference between those getting these channels and those that aren't (assuming all have the HR54 & C61)?


I don't know if your problem is a firmware issue or not. However, if you're interested in testing beta firmware for your DIRECTV receivers, check out iamanedgecutter.com


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## Ken776

^ That was the issue. I put in 'IAMANEDGECUTTER' in 'smart search' and bam, I began receiving Channels 900 & 901 with the 4K boxing content.

Now with that said, I can only assume that once the actual 4K golf broadcasting begins, it will move to a channel that anyone with the proper equipment can receive. After all, who would know to do this nutty workaround to receive their streaming 4K?


----------



## HoTat2

Ken776 said:


> ^ That was the issue. I put in 'IAMANEDGECUTTER' in 'smart search' and bam, I began receiving Channels 900 & 901 with the 4K boxing content.
> 
> Now with that said, I can only assume that once the actual 4K golf broadcasting begins, it will move to a channel that anyone with the proper equipment can receive. After all, who would know to do this nutty workaround to receive their streaming 4K?


Chs. 900 and 901?

Not 9800 and 9801?

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## TheRatPatrol

I wonder if they'll have this in demonstration mode at Costco?


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## Ken776

HoTat2 said:


> Chs. 900 and 901?
> 
> Not 9800 and 9801?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N
> 
> Sorry, I meant 9800 & 9801.


----------



## Ken776

TheRatPatrol said:


> I wonder if they'll have this in demonstration mode at Costco?


Unlikely


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## HoTat2

Since I don't see any advertising for this event at all yet by DIRECTV in the media, their Facebook, Twitter, etc., I wonder if this is to be primarily for testing by edgecutter viewers?

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## slice1900

That's kind of what I was thinking. If this was something everyone with 4K was supposed to be able to receive, there would have been some sort of announcement from Directv in the press.


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## slice1900

BTW people are reporting this works with a HR44 as well. That's kinda what I expected - there's nothing special about the HR54 aside from its ability to handle bonded transponders, so since these are one channel per one transponder broadcasts they don't require the HR54. If they plan to use bonded transponders for the 'official' rollout I would expect they'll test that at a later date, but as I've been saying for a while it is better to limit your testing to one thing at a time.


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## James Long

slice1900 said:


> That's kind of what I was thinking. If this was something everyone with 4K was supposed to be able to receive, there would have been some sort of announcement from Directv in the press.


... and one would not need a special code to activate the channels.


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## HoTat2

But if this is indeed to be a test, and it's taking place on the Ka band. Does it indicate that DIRECTV is planning to go the route of rolling out 4K broadcasting initially on the Ka band and later migrate over to the Reverse Band once the equipment for it is widely distributed nationally?

I know this is what some here have dreaded considering what a mess this approach caused when DIRECTV did this with HD programming from MPEG-2/Ku to MPEG-4/Ka.

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## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> BTW *people are reporting this works with a HR44 as well*. That's kinda what I expected - there's nothing special about the HR54 aside from its ability to handle bonded transponders, so since these are one channel per one transponder broadcasts they don't require the HR54. If they plan to use bonded transponders for the 'official' rollout I would expect they'll test that at a later date, but as I've been saying for a while it is better to limit your testing to one thing at a time.


here ? link ?


----------



## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> But if this is indeed to be a test, and it's taking place on the Ka band. Does it indicate that DIRECTV is planning to go the route of rolling out 4K broadcasting initially on the Ka band and later migrate over to the Reverse Band once the equipment for it is widely distributed nationally?
> 
> I know this is what some here have dreaded considering what a mess this approach caused when DIRECTV did this with HD programming from MPEG-2/Ku to MPEG-4/Ka.


Ultimately they have to get everyone on 4K using HR54 and reverse band LNB. But what does it matter if they do that from day one or day 365? There are already customers with 4K enabled on their account who lack either the HR54 or LNB or both. They could probably swap out the Genies without too much trouble, but swapping out the LNB is a problem even after the 3DR is rumored to hit wide release in mid April - what about people who need the 5DR? What about people who would require a legacy LNB due to number of tuners or because they are in a MDU?

Seems like a no brainer to wait until you have the _ability_ to upgrade customers before forcing them to upgrade. Otherwise you will have customers currently enabled for 4K who had everything Directv told them was required at the time and who had already successfully watch 4K demos, VOD etc. wanting to watch (for example) the Masters in 4K, but when they try to watch it it doesn't work. They call Directv and get told they need an upgrade they can't have, so they're SOL. Not exactly good for customer relations.

So I don't see them using reverse band for 4K channels until a few months after the legacy reverse band LNB is widely available. They could use bonded transponders at any time since the HR54 is widely available now, but there's no real savings until you reach a half dozen 4K channels. I'm skeptical we see that many this year. But like I said it makes sense to test 4K without bonding first, then try bonding later. So they might require bonding once 'official' 4K broadcasts occur, but if so I would expect them to contact all the customers with 4K service who don't have a HR54 and tell them their Genie needs to be upgraded (and they will lose all their recordings) It would be stupid of them to require the HR54 without giving 4K customers that advance notice.

I'm assuming the reverse band LNB quickly becomes the standard for all new installs - once it has sufficient availability and they've burned through all their inventory of older LNBs. Certainly it should be the default for new 4K installs as soon as it is widely available, as would an HR54 (the HR54 probably already is the default for 4K installs, maybe peds48 can confirm?) So once the LNB is widely available they wouldn't be adding much to the total number of people they will have to upgrade later.


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## Ken776

slice1900 said:


> BTW people are reporting this works with a HR44 as well. That's kinda what I expected - there's nothing special about the HR54 aside from its ability to handle bonded transponders, so since these are one channel per one transponder broadcasts they don't require the HR54. If they plan to use bonded transponders for the 'official' rollout I would expect they'll test that at a later date, but as I've been saying for a while it is better to limit your testing to one thing at a time.


What is the benefit of using bonded transponders? Higher frame rates?


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## HoTat2

Ken776 said:


> What is the benefit of using bonded transponders? Higher frame rates?


From what's been revealed DIRECTV engineers feel they can multiplex three UHD program streams, each at an avg. rate of 15 mb/s over two combined (or "bonded") 36 MHz wide xpndrs.

That is to say, a ratio of 1.5:1 programs/xpndr, or a 50% increase in spectral efficiency over using single (or "unbonded") xpndrs.

So for instance if DIRECTV can only fit 1 UHD program on a single xpndr for a total of 36 using all Reverse Band xpndrs on 99(cr) and 103(cr). By combining xpndrs they could fit 36 x 1.5 or 54 UHD programs over 18 bonded xpndrs.

Or if they could manage to multipex 2 UHD programs on a single xpndr for a total of up to 72. Bonding would allow for up to 72 x 1.5 or 108 etc.

Not that any of these max. numbers will ever be reached of course, but the concept still holds. Using xpndr bonding is a more spectrallly efficient transmission method though more complex.

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## leww37334

I have a directv rvu icon already on my Samsung 4k directv ready tv, 1. Will directv simply reactivate the icon if I call them? and 2 will that give me 4k from directv?


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## Kiwi474

I got a mailing from Directv about going out to channel 1102 for everything 4K. I have a hr34(it's slow) hooked to a regular 1080p tv and in the other room I got a RVU Ethernet hooked up to a Samsung 7000's series 4K tv. I was able to get the 4K on the 4K tv. It would not come on for my other Tv's. Those Tv's are not 4K. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## peds48

leww37334 said:


> I have a directv rvu icon already on my Samsung 4k directv ready tv, 1. Will directv simply reactivate the icon if I call them? and 2 will that give me 4k from directv?


DirecTV will probably want to send a tech to install a broadband DECA. As long as the TV is 4K, you should have access to channel 1102 where all the 4K content is located. Don't forget there is a monthly fee of $6.50 (soon to be $7) for each RVU TV

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## peds48

Kiwi474 said:


> I got a mailing from Directv about going out to channel 1102 for everything 4K. I have a hr34(it's slow) hooked to a regular 1080p tv and in the other room I got a RVU Ethernet hooked up to a Samsung 7000's series 4K tv. I was able to get the 4K on the 4K tv. It would not come on for my other Tv's. Those Tv's are not 4K.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Right, that channel will only show on 4K TVs

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## P Smith

Kiwi474 said:


> I got a mailing from Directv about *going out to channel 1102 for everything 4K*. I have a hr34(it's slow) hooked to a regular 1080p tv and in the other room I got a RVU Ethernet hooked up to a Samsung 7000's series 4K tv. I was able to get the 4K on the 4K tv. It would not come on for my other Tv's. Those Tv's are not 4K.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


4K VOD, not linear 4K channels

try 9800 and 9801 and you will be unhappy


----------



## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> Ultimately they have to get everyone on 4K using HR54 *and reverse band LNB*. ...


I'm not sure if DTV bosses have same goal


----------



## slice1900

P Smith said:


> I'm not sure if DTV bosses have same goal


Not sure why you think that, because everyone knows that 4K will eventually be using reverse band. Directv doesn't tell people much about their future technology directions, but that is one thing they have stated on several occasions so you can be assured it is true.


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## P Smith

I'm hesitating because of very low number of RB DLNBs deployed and the 4K linear channels are here;
DTV did say many thing before, and many of them did not materialized


----------



## leww37334

peds48 said:


> DirecTV will probably want to send a tech to install a broadband DECA. As long as the TV is 4K, you should have access to channel 1102 where all the 4K content is located. Don't forget there is a monthly fee of $6.50 (soon to be $7) for each RVU TV
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


diretv will be charging $7 a month in order to use your own tv as a secondary receiver, that should make a great Dish commercial, LOL

seriously I know about mirroring costs and all that, but it still seems wrong, especially when I am already paying a charge for the receiver already hooked to the tv and the RVU is added simply for 4k content which I will also have to pay for. Amazon 4k and roku 4k is so much simpler, No added equipment at all just select and go.

also I already have a MODEL # DCA2SRO-18 , due to last unsuccessful 4k install attempt


----------



## NR4P

P Smith said:


> 4K VOD, not linear 4K channels
> 
> try 9800 and 9801 and you will be unhappy


I wouldn't judge 9800 and 9801 at this time. I suspect they are test channels and more work will be done.


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## P Smith

NR4P said:


> I wouldn't judge 0800 and 9801 at this time. I suspect they are test channels and more work will be done.


as we aware the range does belong test channels area, exactly


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## studechip

TheRatPatrol said:


> I wonder if they'll have this in demonstration mode at Costco?


My Costco doesn't even have a dish installed.


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> I'm hesitating because of very low number of RB DLNBs deployed and the 4K linear channels are here;
> DTV did say many thing before, and many of them did not materialized


Test channels are here ... nothing real except VOD.

From a marketing standpoint I can see DIRECTV having a couple of 4K channels on ka and more channels on the reverse band. Put a 4K PPV, a permanent 4K Demo channel and possibly ESPN 4K on ka and once other channels are available put them on RB. Introduce the service in a way that doesn't require an instant change to all the LNBs at 4K customer's homes.

Once the RB LNB leaves the final testing phase install it along with the service visit to install the C61 and HR54. 4K channels are coming too slowly to rush the technology into place. If there were to be ten 4K channels by summer I could see DIRECTV making the effort to swap the technology. I expect there will only be three or four linear channels this year ... certainly not a flood.

Slow and steady should work for deployment. The speed of the tech deployment doesn't need to be faster than channel availability. (And by availability, I mean available to DIRECTV for carrage.)


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## inkahauts

leww37334 said:


> diretv will be charging $7 a month in order to use your own tv as a secondary receiver, that should make a great Dish commercial, LOL
> 
> seriously I know about mirroring costs and all that, but it still seems wrong, especially when I am already paying a charge for the receiver already hooked to the tv and the RVU is added simply for 4k content which I will also have to pay for. Amazon 4k and roku 4k is so much simpler, No added equipment at all just select and go.
> 
> also I already have a *MODEL # DCA2SRO-18 , due to last unsuccessful 4k install attempt*


Does dish not charge for the PlayStation as a Joey connection?


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## inkahauts

I suspect we may see 10 4K channels by years end.


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## James Long

inkahauts said:


> Does dish not charge for the PlayStation as a Joey connection?


They did. They also charge for TVs connected via an app although they only allowed one TV per home to be connected in that way and are getting away from the app based distribution and sticking with proprietary Joey clients.



inkahauts said:


> I suspect we may see 10 4K channels by years end.


I expected one "real" channel by the end of 2015. The market created a couple of channels most can't name without looking up. (Plus NASA UHD. NASA is a public interest channel on satellite.) I do not see ten real channels in the pipeline.


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## slice1900

P Smith said:


> I'm hesitating because of very low number of RB DLNBs deployed and the 4K linear channels are here;
> DTV did say many thing before, and many of them did not materialized


What else could they use reverse band for? Just as with using Ka for HD, they have no choice but to use new bands that current equipment can't receive for new types of content rather than more of the existing types of content.

They have enough free Ka transponders (with another 8 likely once they clear out SW1) they can delay either reverse band or bonded transponders or both to fit whatever schedule they have in mind. There's no particular reason they should want to use reverse band for 4K at launch, when they already have the ability to deliver it to every customer able to watch 4K VOD today. When they have the ability to upgrade every customer signed up for 4K to receive reverse band, they make it happen pretty quickly since there aren't all that many 4K customers.


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## P Smith

> When they have the ability to upgrade every customer signed up for 4K to receive reverse band, they make it happen pretty quickly since there aren't all that many 4K customers.


There is whole D15 idling; telling you - no needs for the RB ... they will slow try it, not for mainstream packages;
you shouldn't tell us how fast DTV could switch configs to RB DLNB, you don't know the financial, logistic hurdles...


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## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> There is whole D15 idling; telling you - no needs for the RB ... they will slow try it, not for mainstream packages;
> you shouldn't tell us how fast DTV could switch configs to RB DLNB, you don't know the financial, logistic hurdles...


Well P. Smith, I have to interject here that at least until SW1 is shut down, D15 can't really offer anything more that's not already being provided by D10, and 12 except to mirror programming from 103ca and cb to Puerto Rico subs.

In fact even future use of it's RB payload 103(cr) is in question with the spectrum rights tied up in legal limbo. Likely why no xpndrs have lit up on it yet ...

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## James Long

P Smith said:


> you don't know the financial, logistic hurdles...


And you do, specifically for DIRECTV or a DBS operation?

This is a friendly conversation where people say (without following the script) "I believe based on my knowledge and experience that DIRECTV will ...". As a friendly conversation the final answer is "your guess is as good as mine". Guesses from people with different knowledge bases and experience are certainly welcome ... but as long as the "guess" is plausible polite disagreement should be the limit.

I consider the concept plausible that some channels will be on ka (very few, leaving plenty of room for everything in HD that DIRECTV doesn't carry) but the bulk of the 4K channels will be on RB. Once the RB LNB is fully approved I expect it to be installed along with HR54s - even if nothing is on RB until late this year or next year. That is my guess. And I consider your guess is as good as mine.


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## slice1900

Personally I think we might see the channels on 95* mirrored on reverse band in MPEG4 before we see 4K channels that aren't test and aren't also carried in Ka on reverse band. The benefit of doing that would be quite tangible - no more installing the second dish for customers signing up for international package, they'd just give them a reverse band LNB instead.

That's why the H2x/HR2x are able to see reverse band transponders, something they never did for the SD receivers and Ka.


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## P Smith

No one in their mind qualified posts here as official, semiofficial, based in closed internal info ... so, when I'm reading too much arguments I've got a feeling someone pushing the envelope too far - long posts tends to be posed as true.


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## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> Personally I think we might see the channels on 95* mirrored on reverse band in MPEG4 before we see 4K channels that aren't test and aren't also carried in Ka on reverse band. The benefit of doing that would be quite tangible - no more installing the second dish for customers signing up for international package, they'd just give them a reverse band LNB instead.
> 
> That's why the H2x/HR2x are able to see reverse band transponders, something they never did for the SD receivers and Ka.


It's more realistic expectation IMO, not the 4K distribution.


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## slice1900

P Smith said:


> It's more realistic expectation IMO, not the 4K distribution.


The mirroring requires only 2 1/2 transponders at most. I don't know why you are fighting against the idea of 4K channels on reverse band. What is the point of putting those on Ka once the reverse band LNB is widely available? I've always said I thought 4K would initially be carried on Ka but would later move to reverse band - the only argument I ever heard against that was people who thought they'd be on reverse band from day one.

Leaving them on Ka for the long term use up Ka transponders they could be using for new HD channels - or holding in reserve with more PPV channels in the event one of the HD satellites quits working like happened to D10 a year ago. It would also leave them with a ton of reverse band transponders which they couldn't use - it would sure be backasswards to use Ka for 4K and reverse band for HD unless they want to upgrade 15+ million LNBs for all their HD customers!


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## P Smith

that RB DLNB upgrade is itching me ... I don't see bold statements or brave moves into RB, something holding them, also it's very small pilot area of deployment, like they reserved such for easy reverse back


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## slice1900

P Smith said:


> that RB DLNB upgrade is itching me ... I don't see bold statements or brave moves into RB, something holding them, also it's very small pilot area of deployment, like they reserved such for easy reverse back


If you do a beta test or pilot deployment you want to do it small scale precisely because it allows for "easy reverse back" in case problems are found. That doesn't indicate any lack of commitment for reverse band down the road, just that Directv has no reason to rush headlong into reverse band and can take their time to fully test. After they do a wide deployment and are installing thousands per day all over the country it would cost them a fortune to replace them all if they find a problem then.


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## leww37334

slice1900 said:


> If you do a beta test or pilot deployment you want to do it small scale precisely because it allows for "easy reverse back" in case problems are found. That doesn't indicate any lack of commitment for reverse band down the road, just that Directv has no reason to rush headlong into reverse band and can take their time to fully test. After they do a wide deployment and are installing thousands per day all over the country it would cost them a fortune to replace them all if they find a problem then.


sign me up for the beta


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## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> If you do a beta test or pilot deployment you want to do it small scale precisely because it allows for "easy reverse back" in case problems are found. That doesn't indicate any lack of commitment for reverse band down the road, just that Directv has no reason to rush headlong into reverse band and can take their time to fully test. After they do a wide deployment and are installing thousands per day all over the country it would cost them a fortune to replace them all if they find a problem then.


and it's only one side of my dubts... why so low number of active RB tpns ? - are they all fully functional ? where at least ONE test channel on active RB tpnd, say HD mirror for christsake ?


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## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> and it's only one side of my dubts... why so low number of active RB tpns ? - are they all fully functional ? where at least ONE test channel on active RB tpnd, say HD mirror for christsake ?


Well 103(cr) silence is probably due to international legal issues.

But while I agree with your complaint P Smith about why only 4 active xpndrs on 99(cr) with no test channels on them. The unexplained slowdown to a virtual standstill with the satellite fleet as a whole appear to be all over the place.

Why are D14's Ka CONUS xpndrs still only at 11 active with 9 having levels?

Why is D15 still asleep?

Why is SW1 still active, or at least emptied of all the remaining PR channels to D14 and/or D15's CONUS xpndrs?

Why haven't DIRECTV begun mirrors for 95W programming to the 99-103W group yet?

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## compnurd

More of an FYI. Just hooked up my C61. It is connected to my Vizio M60 Port 2. Which is supposed to be HDMI 1.4 but supporting HDCP 2.2 (so 4K up to 30FPS) and everything is working great with it. Test channels work and so does content.... I know i saw people tossing around the port needed to support 60FPS for the device to recognize it but that doesnt seem the case


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## slice1900

I agree with HoTat2. Lots of mysteries for the slow rollout for everything connected with D14 and D15. I think the question of why haven't all the transponders on 99(ca) been lit up is far bigger than anything connected with reverse band. If D14 is faulty in some way that's a big deal, and the longer it continues to operate like this the more likely that appears.

I am not surprised in the least there are no channels on reverse band. Why should there be, with at most a few thousand reverse band LNBs out there today? The four tpns they have lit up provide good test coverage that includes both odd and even transponders and the highest and lowest frequencies available in the band. Seeing non-zero numbers in the signal screen provides all the information you need to know because it proves those tpns are being successfully demodulated. We already know receivers are able to display video from a demodulated signal, so carrying channels on reverse band would offer no additional information.


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## P Smith

> We already know receivers are able to display video from a demodulated signal, so carrying channels on reverse band would offer no additional information.


oversimplified statement - at least to 50% level

demods would bring good TS to FW if signals had acceptable number of TS errors , etc

anyway, without real high density stream the current assessment of a condition RB tpns is not correct


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## bobnielsen

slice1900 said:


> I agree with HoTat2. Lots of mysteries for the slow rollout for everything connected with D14 and D15. I think the question of why haven't all the transponders on 99(ca) been lit up is far bigger than anything connected with reverse band. If D14 is faulty in some way that's a big deal, and the longer it continues to operate like this the more likely that appears.
> 
> I am not surprised in the least there are no channels on reverse band. Why should there be, with at most a few thousand reverse band LNBs out there today? The four tpns they have lit up provide good test coverage that includes both odd and even transponders and the highest and lowest frequencies available in the band. Seeing non-zero numbers in the signal screen provides all the information you need to know because it proves those tpns are being successfully demodulated. We already know receivers are able to display video from a demodulated signal, so carrying channels on reverse band would offer no additional information.


There has been a lot of speculation that they may start a few channels of linear 4K from 99 or 103 because there aren't enough RB LNBs in circulation yet. This may be why there are a couple of unused Ka transponders on D14.

Information was often slow coming from Directv. With ATT in charge it seems to have slowed down even more. Hopefully that will change eventually but we will have to wait (and wait) to see.


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## slice1900

I've been saying they would start 4K with Ka broadcasts for ages, but I don't think that has anything to do with the unused transponders on D14. There's no reason they should have some marked N/A and some showing 0s just because they were intending to use them for 4K. Anyway, they aren't using those, they're using one of the active ones on D14 and another on D10 (I think it is) for these two channels at the moment...


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## rjhseven

slice1900 said:


> I agree with this. There's not much reason to have an internet connection to your Directv equipment if you aren't going to watch any VOD, and that way you don't have to worry about a software update that changes behavior or has a bug from costing you a bunch of money.


It is very handy for finding good movies that are just VOD and free and also if you go to guide you might see a program or movie you want to watch but it is in the middle of the movie; having an internet connection will allow you to hit rewind and watch the movie or program from the start. Not all channels support this but many do.


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## HoTat2

So how is the 4K broadcast of the PGA event going so far?

2/17 was the scheduled start date for the telecast was it not?

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## rjhseven

I have the new 61 mini client going through ARC to Pioneer VSX 530k receiver and the main server is HR44-200. Just recently I've noticed it is taking 5-6 seconds to change stations and I get a bright gray blank screen in that time. I do have it set to native but have always had that setting and it took 1-2 seconds. 

Have done non factory reset on 44 and mini with no improvement. Any ideas?


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## NR4P

I suggest you don't have the C61K go through the Pioneer and see if that speeds things up.
If it does, then it is the 4K test/handshaking that is slowing it down.


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## rjhseven

NR4P said:


> I suggest you don't have the C61K go through the Pioneer and see if that speeds things up.
> If it does, then it is the 4K test/handshaking that is slowing it down.


Suspected that but I'm a receiver guy so it is immaterial. Was hoping for a different answer. Perhaps a software update for 61 could correct this along with several other flaws.


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## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> So how is the 4K broadcast of the PGA event going so far?
> 
> 2/17 was the scheduled start date for the telecast was it not?


Tournament starts tomorrow, so probably didn't have a broadcast today.


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## HoTat2

slice1900 said:


> Tournament starts tomorrow, so probably didn't have a broadcast today.


Oh ... ok, the dates I thought reported were 2/17 - 2/21 ...

But then again, I've never been interested in or liked golf, so don't keep up with their programming ... 

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## inkahauts

rjhseven said:


> Suspected that but I'm a receiver guy so it is immaterial. Was hoping for a different answer. Perhaps a software update for 61 could correct this along with several other flaws.


Why do you say you are a receiver guy? For audio? Doesn't mean you have to run the c61 video through it. Grab a powered splitter and send one leg to the tv direct and one to the receiver for the audio. . I wish they simply had a second audio only HDMI out myself.

Just a thought anyway if it gets to be to big an issue.


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## HoTat2

inkahauts said:


> Why do you say you are a receiver guy? For audio? Doesn't mean you have to run the c61 video through it. Grab a powered splitter and send one leg to the tv direct and one to the receiver for the audio. . I wish they simply had a second audio only HDMI out myself.
> 
> Just a thought anyway if it gets to be to big an issue.


Can A/V receivers extract the digital audio stream from their HDMI video inputs?

I thought A/V receivers just switch HDMI inputs to certain outputs (mainly to the TV of course) and get digital audio streams such as AC3 for decoding only from ARC returns or SPDIF inputs?

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## b52pooh

Any chance there is a firmware update for the Pioneer A/V receiver?


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## Hideftv

I have a C61K-700. It has been defaulting to 720p. I have unchecked 720p, but every time you power it off and back on it resets the display resolutions. Anyone else having this happen?


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## NR4P

Hideftv said:


> I have a C61K-700. It has been defaulting to 720p. I have unchecked 720p, but every time you power it off and back on it resets the display resolutions. Anyone else having this happen?


Are you connecting through an AVR or direct to TV?


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## Hideftv

NR4P said:


> Are you connecting through an AVR or direct to TV?


Directly to TV with Optical to AVR.


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## NR4P

What 4K TV? And can verify the input is HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2?


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## Hideftv

Yes 4K works fine VOD and test channels. Sony XBR65X900B. It just will not keep the 720p unchecked after a power off. As soon as I unselect it the resolution changes to 1080i if tuned to a HD channel. The TV OSD shows 3840x2160p when watching 4K.


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## NR4P

I see what you mean. Tried it on my C61K and it does not stay off.

Never noticed it because it leave Native off so I get either 1080i or 4K depending on channel/source.


Maybe a bug in code or a reason for that, don't know.


----------



## Hideftv

NR4P said:


> I see what you mean. Tried it on my C61K and it does not stay off.
> 
> Never noticed it because it leave Native off so I get either 1080i or 4K depending on channel/source.
> 
> Maybe a bug in code or a reason for that, don't know.


Thanks! I have Native Off also, but every now and then it actually displays 720p until I uncheck it or watch 4K. They will probably get it fixed in a software update sometime.


----------



## Rockaway1836

Hideftv said:


> I have a C61K-700. It has been defaulting to 720p. I have unchecked 720p, but every time you power it off and back on it resets the display resolutions. Anyone else having this happen?


Normally I have my receivers set to 1080i and native off. With the C61 I found out sometime ago that doing this has the unit defaulting to 720p. So I keep native on to get around it.


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## Hideftv

I changed mine to Native On to try it for a while. I am not sure I liked the picture when the C61K was up scaling HD to 4K. Movement seemed a little jerky at times no matter what motion flow setting I tried.


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## P Smith

Hideftv said:


> I changed mine to Native On to try it for a while. I am not sure I liked the picture when the C61K was up scaling HD to 4K. Movement seemed a little jerky at times no matter what motion flow setting I tried.


 You should pay attention to a source signal's parameters - if it's 4K 24P, you can't make it smooth


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## Hideftv

P Smith said:


> You should pay attention to a source signal's parameters - if it's 4K 24P, you can't make it smooth


Not sure display does not show the source's rate, although motion is not bad on a 4K source.


----------



## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> You should pay attention to a source signal's parameters - if it's 4K 24P, you can't make it smooth


Not really sure what this means ...

Can you elaborate?

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## Hideftv

I think he is saying that with a 24 frame rate per second motion is not going to be smooth. While I do get some minor judder on a 3840x2160p source, a 1080i source upscaled is more of a jerky motion in a lot of scenes. Not sure what the C61K is doing with the frame rate when upscaling. If I watch a 4K source and then switch to a 1080i source with Native Off my display still indicates a 3840x2160p source and motion is jerky. If I go to settings and turn Native On the display switches back to 1080i and motion is smooth. 1080p24 motion is also not jerky on the display. I hope this makes sense.


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## slice1900

Why can't 24 fps be smooth? It depends on the original content as much as the source signal. Almost every movie is filmed at 24 fps, and no one complains they aren't smooth. If it is content filmed at 30 fps with frames dropped to make it 24 fps then it would be jerky because of the skipped frames.

We're in the early days of 4K, I'm sure there will be a lot of problems to clean up along the way, just like there were growing pains in the early days of HD.


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## Hideftv

I agree. Like I said 1080p24 is smooth on my display. I have not noticed any jerkiness.


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## HoTat2

slice1900 said:


> Why can't 24 fps be smooth? It depends on the original content as much as the source signal. Almost every movie is filmed at 24 fps, and no one complains they aren't smooth. If it is content filmed at 30 fps with frames dropped to make it 24 fps then it would be jerky because of the skipped frames.
> 
> We're in the early days of 4K, I'm sure there will be a lot of problems to clean up along the way, just like there were growing pains in the early days of HD.


But why convert native 30 fps film based material to 24 when producing a 4K version of it?

Since most (higher quality anyhow http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-tv-refresh-rates/) 4K sets use 120 Hz refresh rates, they can display 24 or 30 fps film programs judder free.

In fact converting 30 fps film material to 24 makes it slightly worse for those with 60 Hz 4K sets as they now have to deal with judder along with all the native 24 fps programs.

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## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> But why convert native 30 fps film based material to 24 when producing a 4K version of it?
> 
> Since most (higher quality anyhow http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-tv-refresh-rates/) 4K sets use 120 Hz refresh rates, they can display 24 or 30 fps film programs judder free.
> 
> In fact converting 30 fps film material to 24 makes it slightly worse for those with 60 Hz 4K sets as they now have to deal with judder along with all the native 24 fps programs.


Movies are NEVER filmed at 30 fps, only TV shows are, but since TVs all natively support 30 fps I'm not sure why they would ever be converted to 24 fps...not sure what you're talking about here.

As far as '120 Hz' 4K TVs - this is a marketing number. TVs that claim '120 Hz' only display 60 frames in a second - the other 60 are blank frames which minimizes the visibility of motion blur. Since they are really only displaying 60 unique frames per second, you still need 3:2 pulldown. AFAIK there are no 4K TVs that claim 240 Hz, only HDTVs, so none have a high enough frame rate to avoid the need for 3:2 pulldown.

However, many recent TVs can display at 24 Hz (or some multiple thereof) when presented with 24 Hz input, and a few can even recognize when 24 Hz material has been converted to 30i/60p and are smart enough to convert it back to 24 fps and use their ability to display 24 Hz material to handle it.


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## inkahauts

There are several actual true 120 refresh rate 4K tvs. They are the higher end ones that usually claim 240. Most the Samsung SUHD ones for example.


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## NR4P

inkahauts said:


> There are several actual true 120 refresh rate 4K tvs. They are the higher end ones that usually claim 240. Most the Samsung SUHD ones for example.


Actually it's marketing BS. 
Great article here

http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-tv-refresh-rates/

120 hz. is the highest native refresh rate that exists according to cnet.

Samsung's 240 is not confined to SUHD only but it's still 120 hz native.
Note Samsung doesn't add "hz" after the 240.


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## HoTat2

Somewhat confused though ...

Is "backlight scanning" a modification of "black frame insertion?" Or are these two separate processes that either or both may to used in a TV to "effectively" increase frame refresh rate?

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## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> Somewhat confused though ...
> 
> Is "backlight scanning" a modification of "black frame insertion?" Or are these two separate processes that either or both may to used in a TV to "effectively" increase frame refresh rate?


Same thing, different term.


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## I WANT MORE

Yet another thread bastardized to Hell. 
Incredible.


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## HoTat2

I WANT MORE said:


> Yet another thread bastardized to Hell.
> Incredible.


Not really. ..

The latest series of posts for instance are related to why 1080i feeds upscaled to 4K on the C61K have more noticeable judder on them.

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## P Smith

HoTat2 said:


> Not really. ..
> 
> The latest series of posts for instance are related to why 1080i feeds upscaled to 4K on the C61K have more noticeable judder on them.


Posted on AVSforum, RVU have no judder on same golf video.


----------



## HoTat2

P Smith said:


> Posted on AVSforum, RVU have no judder on same golf video.


For 1080i feeds upconverted to 4K by the C61K?

As there is no judder problem reported for native 4K, 1080i, and I assume 720p when the C61K is set to native to apply no upconversion for the later two.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## compnurd

Really confused. My C61 is not upconverting any 1080I to 4K. How are people doing this?


----------



## HoTat2

compnurd said:


> Really confused. My C61 is not upconverting any 1080I to 4K. How are people doing this?


Don't have a C61K or a 4K TV myself, but was going by the issue Hideftv posted earlier ...

http://dbstalk.com/index.php?/topic/218833-First-Look:-DIRECTV-C61K-4K-Genie-Mini-Client#entry3411565

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----------



## compnurd

Ah ok that was not along the lines i was thinking


----------



## Hideftv

compnurd said:


> Really confused. My C61 is not upconverting any 1080I to 4K. How are people doing this?


I did not think it would upscale either, but if I watch a 4K feed on channel 9800 and then switch to a HD channel or recording, my TV is still showing that it is recieving a 3840x2160p signal, if Native is turned off and 720p is unselected. If I then go in and turn Native On I see the TV change resolution and it shows it is recieving a 1080i signal. Not sure if this is a fluke, but it does seem that the C61K is upscaling or somehow the TV still thinks it is recieving a 4K signal although I am not sure that is possible. I have checked this several times to verify it, but in each case Native has to be Off, 720p has to be unselected, and I have to watch a 4K signal on 9800 or 9801 or 4K VOD first (edited to add or 4K VOD).


----------



## slice1900

Interesting what you say about 720p. I wonder if that turns on when you reboot the C61K because the GUI is 720p. So maybe if you turn to a 4K channel it uses pixel tripling (i.e. one 720p pixel replaced with 3x3 identical pixels) for the GUI. It might leave it in that mode once you leave the 4K channel so the C61K is still outputting 3840x2160 but it might not be upscaling the picture.

I imagine if you looked carefully you could compare with watching an HD recording where your C61K reports 720p or whatever, and then watching the same one after you've watched a 4K channel and unselected 720p, and see if there is any difference. If my hunch is right you'd see higher apparent resolution in the first test, where your TV is upscaling, than you might in the second test, where it could be pixel tripling 720p content and pixel doubling 1080i content.

Just a guess...I have no way to test myself...


----------



## Hideftv

slice1900 said:


> Interesting what you say about 720p. I wonder if that turns on when you reboot the C61K because the GUI is 720p. So maybe if you turn to a 4K channel it uses pixel tripling (i.e. one 720p pixel replaced with 3x3 identical pixels) for the GUI. It might leave it in that mode once you leave the 4K channel so the C61K is still outputting 3840x2160 but it might not be upscaling the picture.
> 
> I imagine if you looked carefully you could compare with watching an HD recording where your C61K reports 720p or whatever, and then watching the same one after you've watched a 4K channel and unselected 720p, and see if there is any difference. If my hunch is right you'd see higher apparent resolution in the first test, where your TV is upscaling, than you might in the second test, where it could be pixel tripling 720p content and pixel doubling 1080i content.
> 
> Just a guess...I have no way to test myself...


I tried watching the same content when the TV was reporting 3840x2160p and 1080i. I am not sure I can tell if it is what you are suggesting, but both my wife and I think the picture looks somewhat better when it is reporting 3840x2160p. So what you are suggesting may be what's going I am not sure. Motion in some scenes is what I would describe as jerky when it is showing 3840x2160p and the source material is 1080i, very much more so than when the source material is 4K.

Maybe someone else with a C61K could see if they are getting the same results or if something strange is going on with my C61K / TV combination.


----------



## P Smith

Hideftv said:


> ...
> Maybe someone else with a C61K could see if they are getting the same results or if something strange is going on with my C61K / TV combination.


What is you FW versions of DVR and C61 ?


----------



## Hideftv

P Smith said:


> What is you FW versions of DVR and C61 ?


HR54-200 - 0B23

C61k-700 - 07DE


----------



## bobnielsen

Interesting. When I switch from a 2160P program to one that is 1080i (native off), the screen blanks for a second and then comes back as 1080i.


----------



## Hideftv

bobnielsen said:


> Interesting. When I switch from a 2160P program to one that is 1080i (native off), the screen blanks for a second and then comes back as 1080i.


Not sure why mine is doing this. Did you uncheck 720p in the resolution settings?


----------



## Hideftv

bobnielsen said:


> Interesting. When I switch from a 2160P program to one that is 1080i (native off), the screen blanks for a second and then comes back as 1080i.


Thanks for trying this! Maybe my TV just isn't changing the resolution back to 1080i in this case for some strange reason. I have been leaving Native turned on now so that changes the resolution.


----------



## Schmidthappens1993

Hey I just got my C61K-700 and I'm having the same problem. The receiver often defaults to 720p. Have you found a solution to this yet?


----------



## Hideftv

Schmidthappens1993 said:


> Hey I just got my C61K-700 and I'm having the same problem. The receiver often defaults to 720p. Have you found a solution to this yet?


I started leaving Native turned On.


----------



## Hideftv

Mine did get a software update yesterday 07E6, but I have not had time to see if it changed anything.


----------



## kram

Hello,

I have a Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA 4K TV, and want to add a C61K to the mix. Does anyone know if this TV has an HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant connection? I just chatted with a Samsung rep, and this is what he said:

*Avinash P: yes, this TV comes with HDMI 2.0 ports and HDCP 2.2 complaints.*

Since you can't always trust what these folks say, just wondering if anyone knows for sure.

Thanks


----------



## slice1900

If Directv is making you pay for the upgrade to the C61K, ask them if they will refund you if it turns out it won't work with your 4K TV. Trying it is the easiest way to find out.


----------



## Christopher Gould

kram said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA 4K TV, and want to add a C61K to the mix. Does anyone know if this TV has an HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant connection? I just chatted with a Samsung rep, and this is what he said:
> 
> *Avinash P: yes, this TV comes with HDMI 2.0 ports and HDCP 2.2 complaints.*
> 
> Since you can't always trust what these folks say, just wondering if anyone knows for sure.
> 
> Thanks


If my memory serves me correctly the hu8550 isn't hdmi2.0/hdcp 2.2. You have to get the one connect box upgrade to have compliant ports


----------



## Schmidthappens1993

Yes leaving native on may be the best option. It's just frustrating when my old box always displayed 1080i even if the channel (like ESPN) displays in 720p


----------



## NR4P

kram said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA 4K TV, and want to add a C61K to the mix. Does anyone know if this TV has an HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant connection? I just chatted with a Samsung rep, and this is what he said:
> 
> *Avinash P: yes, this TV comes with HDMI 2.0 ports and HDCP 2.2 complaints.*
> 
> Since you can't always trust what these folks say, just wondering if anyone knows for sure.
> 
> Thanks


One input on the 2014 H series is HDCP compliant according to cnet.


----------



## kram

Looks like HDMI 3 (MHL) is 2.2 compliant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## camo

KyL416 said:


> The Genie already receives 4K content via satellite pushes, the 4K client is what will allow you to view the content. Right now only certain 4K Samsung TVs can receive it via RVU, the C61K will allow other 4K TVs to receive it as long as the TV has an input that supports both HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.
> 
> If your TV doesn't support HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 your 4K viewing will be limited to built in apps like Netflix, which requires a decent broadband connection that doesn't have a low bandwidth cap.


If a 4K tv says it supports HDCP 2.2 does that mean it supports 2.0 also? I see many saying 2.2 now but they don't mention 2.0.


----------



## inkahauts

camo said:


> If a 4K tv says it supports HDCP 2.2 does that mean it supports 2.0 also? I see many saying 2.2 now but they don't mention 2.0.


If it's a new model this year then most likely yes. Mainly because last year they finally agreed on all the dang standards, so they should be the norm now. I think there where some a year or two ago that didn't believe it or not...


----------



## I WANT MORE

camo said:


> If a 4K tv says it supports HDCP 2.2 does that mean it supports 2.0 also? I see many saying 2.2 now but they don't mention 2.0.


NO. HDCP 2.2 relates to a new version of copy protection. HDMI 2.0 is in reference to the version of the HDMI connection.


----------



## camo

I WANT MORE said:


> NO. HDCP 2.2 relates to a new version of copy protection. HDMI 2.0 is in reference to the version of the HDMI connection.


So are you saying HDMI 2.2 input won't support HDMI 2.0 unless it specifically says.


----------



## P Smith

camo said:


> So are you saying HDMI *HDCP* 2.2 input won't support HDMI 2.0 unless it specifically says.


you are don't get it right - HDCP and HDMI are different things; check Wiki articles


----------



## Shockee

I think the road that ATT/DirecTV is headed down to provide 4K content to their current subscribers is abysmal. I have subscribed to DTV for well over 10 years and have a protection plan that will allow me to upgrade my Genie to the new HR 54 model. Great. But let's not forget that ATT/DTV will require that you be subscribed to their Ultimate or Premier packages before they will even turn 4K on. I am already paying over $150/month for service and now they want more money and want me to subscribe to 100 more channels I will never watch just so I can retrieve and watch 4K content from their new satellite. I have to believe that ATT has had a hand in this decision and that their concern and care for DTV customers is not a priority. Do any of you remember that DTV was the first service to offer HD broadcasts (initially free) to their current subscribers when it was available many years ago? I specifically subscribed to DTV for those limited HD channels (HBO, a HD test channel, and Mark Cuban's HD Net). Now, to usher in the 4K era, ATT/DTV has erected a "pay wall" for us early adopters. This just stinks. DISH is not a viable alternative as the 4K Hopper is just a streaming box. I am very disappointed in how DTV is implementing 4K through their satellite network. Even though I have an RVU enabled Samsung 4K display, I was waiting for a 4K satellite feed, but won't go for it at this price (not to mention that they will probably add a 4K fee in addition to the mandatory Ultimate or Premier package subscription costs). Am I understanding this correctly?


----------



## leww37334

Shockee said:


> I think the road that ATT/DirecTV is headed down to provide 4K content to their current subscribers is abysmal. I have subscribed to DTV for well over 10 years and have a protection plan that will allow me to upgrade my Genie to the new HR 54 model. Great. But let's not forget that ATT/DTV will require that you be subscribed to their Ultimate or Premier packages before they will even turn 4K on. I am already paying over $150/month for service and now they want more money and want me to subscribe to 100 more channels I will never watch just so I can retrieve and watch 4K content from their new satellite. I have to believe that ATT has had a hand in this decision and that their concern and care for DTV customers is not a priority. Do any of you remember that DTV was the first service to offer HD broadcasts (initially free) to their current subscribers when it was available many years ago? I specifically subscribed to DTV for those limited HD channels (HBO, a HD test channel, and Mark Cuban's HD Net). Now, to usher in the 4K era, ATT/DTV has erected a "pay wall" for us early adopters. This just stinks. DISH is not a viable alternative as the 4K Hopper is just a streaming box. I am very disappointed in how DTV is implementing 4K through their satellite network. Even though I have an RVU enabled Samsung 4K display, I was waiting for a 4K satellite feed, but won't go for it at this price (not to mention that they will probably add a 4K fee in addition to the mandatory Ultimate or Premier package subscription costs). Is there a way we can change this?
> 
> I have given up on Directv for 4k I now use a roku 4 and stream amazon 4k directly to my Samsung, the last straw was having 3 different technicians try to make it work and all failing PS don't get me started on DTV wanting to make me pay for using my own set as an RVU.


----------



## leww37334

I was not aware you needed Ultimate or Premier package, no one mentioned that in the three unsuccessful 4k install attempts. I finally gave up and now I get 4k directly on the samsung from amazon or on my Roku 4.

Trying to do this with directv was like beating my head against a wall PS i have been with directv for over ten years, but they have failed miserably in the 4k area.


----------



## HoTat2

Shockee said:


> ... Even though I have an RVU enabled Samsung 4K display, I was waiting for a 4K satellite feed, but won't go for it at this price (not to mention that they will probably add a 4K fee in addition to the mandatory Ultimate or Premier package subscription costs). Am I understanding this correctly?


Not much subscribers can really do outside of simply refusing 4K service and hope DIRECTV will change their policy.

It's a strategic marketing decision to try and entice more customers up to the higher packages which numbers may have stagnanted especially after the latest yearly price increases.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900

Directv won't always require Premiere/Ultimate packages for 4K, just because you need it for this one time special event doesn't mean you always will. They probably don't have enough HR54s for customers of all package levels to request them and this will keep the demand manageable and prioritize the customers who spend the most money with them.

Down the road when they have more than a few channels I'm sure there will be a 4K fee, just like there was an HD fee, and I'll bet a lot people will be whining about it.


----------



## gator1234

I have been a Directv subscriber since the beginning of the service and I agee with Shockee that it is very unfair to expect up to upgrade to a much more expensive service just to receive 4K. Now if it were just for the Masters, I could understand but it looks like this is going to be a requirement to receive any 4K programs. I did just recently get upgraded to the new Genie model 54 and I do have a Samsung 4K HDTV but I did not sign up for any 4K service as they had very little to offer at the time. 

Does anyone know it you also have to have a 4K Genie Client as well to receive 4K or the Genie 54 is sufficient.


----------



## HoTat2

gator1234 said:


> I have been a Directv subscriber since the beginning of the service and I agee with Shockee that it is very unfair to expect up to upgrade to a much more expensive service just to receive 4K. Now if it were just for the Masters, I could understand but it looks like this is going to be a requirement to receive any 4K programs. I did just recently get upgraded to the new Genie model 54 and I do have a Samsung 4K HDTV but I did not sign up for any 4K service as they had very little to offer at the time.
> 
> Does anyone know it you also have to have a 4K Genie Client as well to receive 4K or the Genie 54 is sufficient.


Unless your TV is a "DIRECTV 4K Ready" type, you will need a C61K Ultra HD Mini Client along with the HR54 Genie.

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## nhcookyjar

Ok, so I don't need a 4k mini if I have a 4k tv that is a DIRECTV READY TV and a Genie HR54-500?


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## P Smith

nhcookyjar said:


> Ok, so I don't need a 4k mini if I have a 4k tv that is a DIRECTV READY TV and a Genie HR54-500?


only if you found your tv model at dtv site's page of supporting models


----------



## HoTat2

nhcookyjar said:


> Ok, so I don't need a 4k mini if I have a 4k tv that is a DIRECTV READY TV and a Genie HR54-500?


Yes,

However, many still prefer to use the C61K client even if their TVs are DIRECTV 4K RVU compliant.

As for instance. ..

1) RVU TVs hookup have no RF remote control options.
2) Tend to respond slower to remote control commands then the C61K.
3) Must rely on the TV mfr. for firmware updates and bug fixes to it's built in RVU client. Which usually lags well behind those from DIRECTV for the C61K.

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## P Smith

@AVSforum people reporting faster response if TV (RVU controlled) connected to wired Ethernet local network as the Genie


----------



## NR4P

P Smith said:


> @AVSforum people reporting faster response if TV (RVU controlled) connected to wired Ethernet local network as the Genie


That will depend on what TV it's connected too.

Samsung is slower than others.


----------



## Jammasterd

I have a 4K Genie and mini being installed tomorrow.
I have a Samsung UN65JU7500 with RVU and I'm not interested in using that from what I've read here.

I'll give more details tomorrow.

I would really like to keep my current Genie HR44-500, but I think they're gonna swap that with the new 4K Genie.
I currently have a HR24-200, HR24-500, and the Genie HR44-500.
I don't have the correct SWM setup so I only have 8 tuners working.

This upgrade tomorrow will bring me down to 7 tuners.


----------



## slice1900

The HR54 has 5 tuners like the HR44 but requires 7 SWM channels allocated to it (two are reserved for bonded 4K channels)

Unless you are planning to replace both HR24s with clients, you will have more than 7 tuners.


----------



## NR4P

Jammasterd said:


> I have a 4K Genie and mini being installed tomorrow.
> I have a Samsung UN65JU7500 with RVU and I'm not interested in using that from what I've read here.
> 
> I'll give more details tomorrow.
> 
> I would really like to keep my current Genie HR44-500, but I think they're gonna swap that with the new 4K Genie.
> I currently have a HR24-200, HR24-500, and the Genie HR44-500.
> I don't have the correct SWM setup so I only have 8 tuners working.
> 
> This upgrade tomorrow will bring me down to 7 tuners.


Installers will upgrade your SWM system as needed.

But careful, they may pull the HR24's and give you clients. Don't let them do that! HR's are better than clients, in my opinion.
Be sure they give you a SWM 16 or one of the newer SWM LNB's for more than 8 tuners.


----------



## Jammasterd

Instal done?
Got the new SWM LNB to upgrade my tuner issue, good there.

Got a new HR54-700 Genie connected to my Samsung UN65JU7500.
That's it he said, and after a phone call to his Supervisor, that no client is needed.

We don't see 4K channels. 
I asked a few times about needing the client.


----------



## WestDC

HR54 does output 4k you will need to add a Mini C61K to your 4k tv inorder to View any 4K recorded content on the HR54 When that starts - You will be able to View downloaded 4K content using the mini--CAll BAck Now


----------



## Jammasterd

WestDC said:


> HR54 does output 4k you will need to add a Mini C61K to your 4k tv inorder to View any 4K recorded content on the HR54 When that starts - You will be able to View downloaded 4K content using the mini--CAll BAck Now


Where does the HR54 get connected?
Mini C61K to the Samsung?


----------



## P Smith

Jammasterd said:


> Where does the HR54 get connected?
> Mini C61K to the Samsung?


I would just activate RVU client for your TV and connect both to 1Gb switch by Ethernet cables
check ch#1102 for 4K and 9800


----------



## Jammasterd

A few phone calls, a couple transfers....no one knows how to fix the issue. Even thought I just asked to have a Mini C61K dropped off if installer is still in area.

My tv is no where near an Ethernet connection to use RVU,


----------



## leww37334

Jammasterd said:


> A few phone calls, a couple transfers....no one knows how to fix the issue. Even thought I just asked to have a Mini C61K dropped off if installer is still in area.
> 
> My tv is no where near an Ethernet connection to use RVU,


I got a 4k wireless roku, seems to work fine for 4k Directv 4k is simply not ready for prime time.


----------



## NR4P

Jammasterd said:


> A few phone calls, a couple transfers....no one knows how to fix the issue. Even thought I just asked to have a Mini C61K dropped off if installer is still in area.
> 
> My tv is no where near an Ethernet connection to use RVU,


You can get a C61K and connect to the TV via HDMI
OR
To get ethernet to your TV, you get a DECA adaptor.
You then put it in the satellite coax line that is near your TV somewhere.
It could be right at your HR54
Then from the DECA box you run a short piece of ethernet cable and now you have it connected to your TV.
(If wireless was enabled on the TV, you turn that off and connect to the internet with this cable)

Now you can use the RVU feature.

Whether its RVU or C61K you pay another monthly fee. Its the same either way.
But you save the cost of a C61K with RVU.


----------



## Jammasterd

Ok they're gonna get back to me, haha.
DirecTV admitted that this 4K is so new, they're still learning about it!

The SWM power inserter that had been connected for years was disconnected, was this due to the new SWM LNB installed?


----------



## NR4P

The HR54 can power the LNB directly. But it must be hooked up via power passing ports on the splitters.


----------



## Parsonsbri

So I am torn between waiting and the desire to watch (some) of the Masters in 4k, so I gave DTV a call. Compski upgrade scheduled for tomorrow afternoon includes a Genie HR54 and (up to) three 4k mini's. Hopefully this will go well, but I am skeptical after reading some of the posts here.

All three 4k TV's are Samsung and DirecTv 4k compatible. A 78", 65", and 40".

Any advice? I want to make sure I get the best install possible.

thanks,

BP


----------



## Jammasterd

Parsonsbri said:


> So I am torn between waiting and the desire to watch (some) of the Masters in 4k, so I gave DTV a call. Compski upgrade scheduled for tomorrow afternoon includes a Genie HR54 and (up to) three 4k mini's. Hopefully this will go well, but I am skeptical after reading some of the posts here.
> 
> All three 4k TV's are Samsung and DirecTv 4k compatible. A 78", 65", and 40".
> 
> Any advice? I want to make sure I get the best install possible.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> BP


http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/popup/iframe/pop_troubleshooting_fr.jsp?modelname=UN46D6400UF&from_osc=&idx=394899&
Good read from Samsung. Wish I saw it earlier today.


----------



## P Smith

Parsonsbri said:


> So I am torn between waiting and the desire to watch (some) of the Masters in 4k, so I gave DTV a call. Compski upgrade scheduled for tomorrow afternoon includes a Genie HR54 and (up to) three 4k mini's. Hopefully this will go well, but I am skeptical after reading some of the posts here.
> 
> All three 4k TV's are Samsung and DirecTv 4k compatible. A 78", 65", and 40".
> 
> Any advice? I want to make sure I get the best install possible.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> BP


connect all devices to 1 Gb switch by Ethernet cable and use RVU clients on your 4k TVs

check the thread also http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/220039-directv-4k-launch-%E2%80%9Cearly-2016%E2%80%9D/page-6#entry3415305


----------



## Jammasterd

So day 3 of no call back from installer or his supervisor. 

To make things go a little easier for when the installer returns, I got busy. 

I moved the HR54 away from the Back Room 4K TV to the Front Room HD TV. 
I also had to switch the cable positions of these two rooms on the outside splitter to allow the HR54 to power the LNB. 
The most left position, also marked red, is the through power for the HR54 to LNB. 

The Front Room is also where my router is connected to the Directv Broadband Deca, which is not needed now because Ethernet cable from router goes directly into HR54. 
The HR54 provides Internet to the rest of the boxes. 

I took the Broadband Deca to the Back Room, hooked it to the Directv coax incoming line, Ethernet from Deca to TV, and Bam!
RVU was asking for pin code from HR54!
I didn't finish the process of marrying the 4K TV RVU to the HR 54 Genie as I had to get to work!

Best of all my TV is no longer using Wifi, it's using the wired connection.

Thank you for the suggestions, help to get me going!


----------



## P Smith

be ready to pay $7/m for activated RVU client !


----------



## Jammasterd

All set up! I got Directv 4K!
Even though when I called today to add the Samsung RVU location to my account, I was told the installer still had to come out to activate the 4K on my account with a phone call. I said that seems odd.
So when I gave her the MAC address of my TV RVU, the account automatically updated the 4K status, she was pleasantly surprised.

Now I'm working on the remote problem.
Samsung remote doesn't have all the buttons to control the Directv RVU software. So a lot of the DVR functionality is lost. The Samsung Smart remote is worthless in this case.
I'm using an old Samsung remote to teach the Logitech Harmony remote I use.


----------



## inkahauts

You need a rc7x remote. It has a special code to set it to for controlling DIRECTV RVU built in tvs. The instructions are on solid signals website if you can't find them elsewhere. 

It will allow you to have the same controller as if you had a genie or client there. . Enjoy!


----------



## Jammasterd

inkahauts said:


> You need a rc7x remote. It has a special code to set it to for controlling DIRECTV RVU built in tvs. The instructions are on solid signals website if you can't find them elsewhere.
> It will allow you to have the same controller as if you had a genie or client there. . Enjoy!


Thank you! Found the instructions and a nice backlit one!


----------



## P Smith

Jammasterd said:


> Thank you! Found the instructions and a nice backlit one!


That's why you'll need a tech visit - to give you the RVU remote !


----------



## Jammasterd

Removed the RVU client and got the Mini Genie 4K connected!
Now about the Display resolution choices. (which are not accessible while using RVU)
If I left 720p unchecked, yesterdays basketball games were unwatchable due to the ridiculous video stuttering while displaying at 3840x2160 /24p. Actually all motion is jerky.
My TV motionflow settings had no affect on the motion.

Checking 720p, the game was displayed as 1920x1080 /60i, perfect for motion.
Checking/un-checking 'Native' had no difference.

Was this already discussed? I can't find the posts.
thanks.


----------



## Hideftv

Jammasterd said:


> Removed the RVU client and got the Mini Genie 4K connected!
> Now about the Display resolution choices. (which are not accessible while using RVU)
> If I left 720p unchecked, yesterdays basketball games were unwatchable due to the ridiculous video stuttering while displaying at 3840x2160 /24p. Actually all motion is jerky.
> My TV motionflow settings had no affect on the motion.
> 
> Checking 720p, the game was displayed as 1920x1080 /60i, perfect for motion.
> Checking/un-checking 'Native' had no difference.
> 
> Was this already discussed? I can't find the posts.
> thanks.


Start at post #300 page 12 of this thread.

Glad someone else has experienced this issue. I ended up leaving Native turned on.


----------



## compnurd

There was just a software update the the c61 to fix the displaying 24p when the content was not Version 859


----------



## war59312

Hey,

Sadly this keeps acting up on me. Picture not coming in a lot of times.

Seems to be a classic HDMI Handshake issue, as I normally can get the picture back if I play around a bit. Unplug cables, switch inputs, etc. Sound always plays.

Just happening with 4k channels, as in channel 104.

Tried different HDMI cables and different box.

Running latest firmware on all devices.

DirecTV Gear:

Genie Gen 3: Model: HR54-700

Two 4K Genie Mini: Model: C61K-700

VSX-830-K Firmware:

Ver 1-282-009-008-203 (Updated from: Ver 1-282-009-008-193)

TV: SAMSUNG UN50HU8550 with Software Version: T-GFP8AKUC-2340.3

First off, I was unable to update to Ver 1-282-009-008-203 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-830-K).

I kept getting "Update Error 7" after it first sits on "Updating... 0%" for a good 5 minutes.

So then I tried to update via USB @ http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/AVR/VSX-830_VSX-45/Update%20Instructions_830-45.txt, but I kept getting "The file may be damaged....".

Tried 3 drives. Then I realized it may be a format issue. So I tried formatting a drive as FAT32.

Success!









Now running latest firmware on VSX-830-K too.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Will


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