# BIG Microsoft News from the Professional Developers Conference



## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

The PDC is abuzz with the news leaked to InternetNews.com that Microsoft's internal calendar calls for the release of Windows 7 on June 3 2009. 

In a topsy turvy testing environment, the first public beta could be out as early as Nov 1, 2008.

There has been a lot of specualtion that Microsoft was planning to have the software in the hands of the PC manufacturers in time to capture the college orders next summer and definitely on the shelves for the holiday buying season.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Great. Yet another Microsoft operating system filled with bugs, glitches, and screw-ups and released well before it ought to be.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

That depends on what Windows 7 really is. If it's a refinement, this could be A Good Thing. Of course, it could be a disaster as well.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I dont get why everyone thinks 7 is coming out so early. Before XP, the 2yr (or even less in cases) cycle was absolutely normal.

95, 98, 98se, 2k, XP

(I left out ME  )


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

When you think back, the Windows versions weren't so complex and so challenged by security as modern versions are. As more and more of Windows is committed to high level languages, there are many more unknowns.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

harsh said:


> When you think back, the Windows versions weren't so complex and so challenged by security as modern versions are. As more and more of Windows is committed to high level languages, there are many more unknowns.


Agreed.

I think many will agree with me when I say that Windows 98se was one of the best releases Microsoft came out with, but Windows 98se was NEVER designed with security in mind. Programmers had direct access to the kernel, which is NEVER good if you are thinking about security.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Draconis said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I think many will agree with me when I say that Windows 98se was one of the best releases Microsoft came out with, but Windows 98se was NEVER designed with security in mind. Programmers had direct access to the kernel, which is NEVER good if you are thinking about security.


Well, they still did have access to the Kernel with XP, ask Sony about it. Does this get fixed with VISTA? If not will it be fixed in future versions.

I do remember reading an article about Symantec demanding hooks into the VISTA kernel for their use.

Another nightmare .. Alternate data streams. If your interested, look it up.

--- CHAS


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Draconis said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I think many will agree with me when I say that Windows 98se was one of the best releases Microsoft came out with, but Windows 98se was NEVER designed with security in mind. Programmers had direct access to the kernel, which is NEVER good if you are thinking about security.


It was never designed with reliability in mind either. Windows 2000 IMO was the best release of Windows. WINNT Platform > WIN9X Platform


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> It was never designed with reliability in mind either. Windows 2000 IMO was the best release of Windows. WINNT Platform > WIN9X Platform


 Glad you think that. My Vista has been rock solid from day one. Maybe most people who think its not "stable" or doesn't work as good as Xp should get better hardware.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Agreed. Vista Ultimate has no problems running on my 5 year old Compaq. 2000, XP and Vista have been rock solid for me. I love Vista, most people who have problems with it are using underpowered hardware.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Draconis said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I think many will agree with me when I say that Windows 98se was one of the best releases Microsoft came out with, but Windows 98se was NEVER designed with security in mind. Programmers had direct access to the kernel, which is NEVER good if you are thinking about security.


I'm no programmer, but doesn't Linux give access to the kernel? And isn't Linux decidedly very secure? Again, I don't know for sure since I'm not a programmer.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> I'm no programmer, but doesn't Linux give access to the kernel? And isn't Linux decidedly very secure? Again, I don't know for sure since I'm not a programmer.


:lol::lol: Linux is no more secure than any other OS... a good catch phrase might be that in obscurity lies Security. All OS's have had security issues, the product is too complicated not to have issues. Hackers tend to go with whatever has the most impact. Apache is actually the most heavily targeted Server Operating System, with Windows a very close second. If you are going to write an attack vector for PC's are you going to write it for Windows, Linux or Mac?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> :lol::lol: Linux is no more secure than any other OS... a good catch phrase might be that in obscurity lies Security. All OS's have had security issues, the product is too complicated not to have issues. Hackers tend to go with whatever has the most impact. Apache is actually the most heavily targeted Server Operating System, with Windows a very close second. If you are going to write an attack vector for PC's are you going to write it for Windows, Linux or Mac?


Oh. Well then I'll take obscure (and working) over well known and broken any day. :grin:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well glad to hear Vista has been solid for you guys, but obviously there is more than just a handful of people ("With Decent Hardware configurations from what I can tell") that have had their share of customer pain and in my opinion MS has not addressed this issue sufficiently and instead has decided to do things like the Mohave experiment which in my opinion from reading the site was by no means a reasonable representation that the issues are really not there though it kinda of tries to give that impression. 

Backward compatibility is always tough and from what I have seen MS with Vista did not do enough to address backwards compatibility. They are not the only ones that have had this pain. It was one of the biggest issues during the OS/2 days. It is a tough one to address but one that must be addressed well to avoid the backlash that has occurred and based on the backlash obviously MS did not address it a sufficient manner. 

Hopefully they learn there lesson and do a better job with Windows 7.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Oh. Well then I'll take obscure (and working) over well known and broken any day. :grin:


You have enough trouble with Windows, let alone Linux... :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Besides, I have never once had a security issue with Windows XP or Vista or 2003 and 2008 for that matter. I keep my antivirus up to date and I patch my systems. For me it's like changing the oil, routine maintenance.


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## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> Agreed. Vista Ultimate has no problems running on my 5 year old Compaq. 2000, XP and Vista have been rock solid for me. I love Vista, most people who have problems with it are using underpowered hardware.


Same here. Absolutely no problems with Vista Premium 64 bit on a dual core Intel, a Gateway, no less.

btw, I have NEVER had a problem with viruses since I used a little utility called DeCombobulator, which simply shuts down a rarely used port which hackers like to access. Google it.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Well glad to hear Vista has been solid for you guys, but obviously there is more than just a handful of people ("With Decent Hardware configurations from what I can tell") that have had their share of customer pain and in my opinion MS has not addressed this issue sufficiently and instead has decided to do things like the Mohave experiment which in my opinion from reading the site was by no means a reasonable representation that the issues are really not there though it kinda of tries to give that impression.
> 
> Backward compatibility is always tough and from what I have seen MS with Vista did not do enough to address backwards compatibility. They are not the only ones that have had this pain. It was one of the biggest issues during the OS/2 days. It is a tough one to address but one that must be addressed well to avoid the backlash that has occurred and based on the backlash obviously MS did not address it a sufficient manner.
> 
> Hopefully they learn there lesson and do a better job with Windows 7.


Backward comaptibility is a tough problem... how far back does an OS have to remain compatible? Is there a number? I have run programs in Vista that required XP compatibility mode and it worked fine for me, and then later the programs produced updates.

If you are expecting help from Windows 7 in this regard, forget it. Windows 7 should be referred to as Vista 6.x. It is being built on the same core as Vista and Server 2008. There will be features removed and features added. The driver library will be the same for Windows 7 as it is for Vista, so no repeat of the driver problems.

Most driver issues have been addressed and Vista has become a very stable OS. I keep waiting for someone to come tom me and tell me some specific problem that doesn't involve the lack of a driver for a 10 year old printer that hasn't had a driver update since XP came out or someone upset because they can't run their favorite <insert name here> software that runs in DOS.

I know there are custom applications out there that have issues, but that really isn't Vista's fault. I have a client who needs to have Internet Explorer 6 to run an online application supplied by the State of Georgia (who thinks an abacus is high tech). We resolved this problem by installing Virtual PC 2007 on the Vista machine and ran XP inside the Virtual PC. Works great no problems.

There are probably still some issues out there, and I would love to hear about them, but truth be told, the majority of users who have the hardware can run Vista satifactorly.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

mystic7 said:


> Same here. Absolutely no problems with Vista Premium 64 bit on a dual core Intel, a Gateway, no less.
> 
> btw, I have NEVER had a problem with viruses since I used a little utility called DeCombobulator, which simply shuts down a rarely used port which hackers like to access. Google it.


Along with my old Compaq, also no problem with Vista Ultimate 64-bit on my Intel Quad Core 2.83 Ghz HP with 8GB of DD2 RAM


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

LarryFlowers said:


> ...... <Content Removed>
> I know there are custom applications out there that have issues, but that really isn't Vista's fault. I have a client who needs to have Internet Explorer 6 to run an online application supplied by the State of Georgia (who thinks an abacus is high tech). We resolved this problem by installing Virtual PC 2007 on the Vista machine and ran XP inside the Virtual PC. Works great no problems.
> 
> There are probably still some issues out there, and I would love to hear about them, but truth be told, the majority of users who have the hardware can run Vista satifactorly.


Larry in my opinion this is reality not ancient abacus stuff. As much as we don't like it as software people there is always going to be legacy applications and it is in these applications that define how well a software company provides innovation while at the same time providing backwards compatibility. It is where companies define if they are truly and Enterprise level company. As a data point, my company still does not roll out Vista with new machines and we are a large company with huge IT infrastructure. Not sure the reason, but my guess is either additional hardware cost, incompatibilities with existing applications, or possible deployment concerns.

Actually it is in my opinion that MS is at fault if it cannot run certain IE6 based web apps on Vista unless the company did something very proprietary. I would use the same argument with the use of ActiveX controls that stopped working after an upgrade. If I was the developer that developed that app and now I am faced with major changes because my web app that worked under XP can't work under Vista I would be a bit annoyed. Ofcourse details would have to be known, but in general I would not be too happy... However I would also never write an web app that only ran on IE in the first place . I take it that the app did not work with FF or some other browser?

To me.. The solution you just provided above might serve as a work around but if it was offered to me as a recommended solution I would laugh. No offense to you and I am sure it works great, but it is a hack to solve a problem that MS created by allowing something like IE6 out into the marketplace. It is a heavyweight solution and though I understand it gets the job down I personally would not consider that working great and you just showed a potential Vista upgrade issue that is not even hardware specific. Use case.. IE6 web application that does not run in IE7. The bottom line (in my opinion) is if you can't run both IE6 and IE7 side by side then when you rolled out IE7 it should have run all IE6 sites period. MS made the bed called IE6 that all us web developers have been made to lie in it uncomfortablly for years and it must now sleep in it. It looks like with IE8 their is promise of IE6, IE7, and IE8 rendering engines and time will tell if that actually help the mess they created.

I feel my self wondering off topic here but given the example was an IE6 example hopefully it was not too far off topic.

By the way.. When was PDC? I heard this news a few weeks back on Buzz out Loud (I believe) and their take was usually they run a Beta for 1 1/2 years before release and given that Windows 7's public Beta was going out in December they people talking about it felt that it seems it is being rushed out and their take was that what appears to be a stepped up schedule is a result of the negative view of Vista in the Marketplace.

Accuracy alert >>> Might have gotten some of the timeframe wrong in the above paragraph but that is the general opinion I believe I heard. <<<


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> Along with my old Compaq, also no problem with Vista Ultimate 64-bit on my Intel Quad Core 2.83 Ghz HP with 8GB of DD2 RAM


 8GB of RAM?? Ouch.. Man I guess my duel core 3GHZ computers at 4GB at home and 3GB at work would be considered underpowered.

You do know Steve that at 8GB you are most likely in the .5% of home computers installed catagory.  How much does your Old Compaq have?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

The minimum amount of RAM you can get from HP with a higher end config is 3GB, to upgrade to 8GB it was only a $200 upgrade so I opted for that. The 5 year old CPQ has a Pentium 4HT Processor at 3.20GHz. I ordered it with 1GB of RAM, upgraded to 1.5GB when I got Vista, bought another 512MB stick to max it out at 2GB, but let a buddy of mine borrow that stick a few months ago and never got it back yet, which reminds me...

But it all honesty, for day to day operations I notice no difference with 1.5GB or 2.0GB. XP Professional SP3 also runs like a champ on my 10 year old Compaq, that machine is a 700 MHz P3 maxed out at 384MB of RAM. Windows 2000 runs a little smoother on that machine, but it doesn't play nice with my Linksys Wireless N router so I have XP.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Here's a little gem from the article on internetnews.com:

'Windows 7 also introduces a new networking API with support for building SOAP-based Web services in native code'. 

Who else here is waiting with 'bated breath' for that. I'll be waiting in the rain to be the first Windows 7 kid on the block just to have that.

:soapbox: :soapbox: 

--- CHAS


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Here it is, the "necessary logo" for Windows 7..









The stated requirements so far:
The policies which the application should adhere to includes,

1. Comply with Anti-spyware Coalition Guidelines
2. Do not modify Windows Resource Protection (WRP) protected resources
3. Ensure ongoing quality - in short, fix crash reports over time

Finally the application must,

1. Install and uninstall cleanly
2. Install to the correct folders by default
3. Support x64 versions of Windows
4. Follow User Account Control (UAC) Guidelines
5. Do not load Services and Drivers in Safe Mode
6. Digitally Sign Files
7. Do not prevent an installation or application from launching because of OS version checking
8. Prevent unnecessary reboots
9. Support multiuser sessions
10. Minimize application failures


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> Here it is, the "necessary logo" for Windows 7..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Very nice logo. Looks kinda like Vista :lol: . I may go get a new laptop for this beta. a 64bit system and just keep the drivers off to one side. Then load this and the Vista drvivers.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

An interesting bit from the PDC...

These were the designated goals of the Windows 7 Development Team....

 Key Goals:

 Under-promise and over deliver 
 Reduce Compatibility problems and bring investments in Vista forward 
 Reduce disk foot print and memory foot print 
 Improve performance 
 Secure, predictable 
 Make the Windows and PC Experience easier 
 Exceptional hardware and software support 
 Bring future releases to market faster 
 Personalized experience that defines you 
 Superior mobility through reliable performance, power management


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

I really enjoy Vista and given Windows 7 if building upon Vista, I'm looking forward to Windows 7. 

Larry - Will the beta testing be open to all or by invitation only?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Well glad to hear Vista has been solid for you guys, but obviously there is more than just a handful of people ("With Decent Hardware configurations from what I can tell") that have had their share of customer pain and in my opinion MS has not addressed this issue sufficiently and instead has decided to do things like the Mohave experiment which in my opinion from reading the site was by no means a reasonable representation that the issues are really not there though it kinda of tries to give that impression.
> 
> Backward compatibility is always tough and from what I have seen MS with Vista did not do enough to address backwards compatibility. They are not the only ones that have had this pain. It was one of the biggest issues during the OS/2 days. It is a tough one to address but one that must be addressed well to avoid the backlash that has occurred and based on the backlash obviously MS did not address it a sufficient manner.
> 
> Hopefully they learn there lesson and do a better job with Windows 7.


For me, Vista has been fine once I figured out how to wade through the layered menus to what I jokingly call "level 6" (to borrow a gamers term). But I do have the hardware needed for it to work effectively.

Also backwards compatibility, when I made the switch, seemed to be hit and miss just like XP. I was still using two programs designed for Win98. On XP one worked significantly better than the other, but both had problems. On Vista, the one that worked better actually works without problems in Vista while the other just wouldn't run no matter what I tried. I really didn't expect that anything that hadn't been updated since Win98 would be allowed to run.

Yes, third party user software did have to be updated to run well and stuff from Intuit and others that seem to be always on line tend to suffer freezes just when its most inconvenient. On the other hand, the multimedia experience is cleaner as we move into the online streaming TV show era.

I'm looking forward to upgrading.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

LarryFlowers said:


> An interesting bit from the PDC...
> 
> These were the designated goals of the Windows 7 Development Team....
> 
> ...


This demonstrates that they clearly understand where Vista failed.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Windows 7 will natively support BluRay read/write.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

This is what I have been able to find out so far about the new Windows 7 Windows Media Center.. this is pretty much word for word what they are publishing at the PDC. I am still trying to get more information..

Media Center in 7 supports browsing broadcast or broadband TV schedules to find show you to watch and record, watch recoded TV shows on your PC or a big-screen TV, and synchronize them to a laptop or portable device to enjoy on the go. With a streamlined user interface and support for new content types and digital TV. Some of the key improvements include:

Internet TV: You can choose from a variety of online TV shows and movies, all organized into a TV guide view. Search for shows across multiple networks and providers, and instantly watch them on your PC or save them for later. Windows 7 Media Center also makes it easy to discover and watch shows related to what you're currently watching. When you watch a TV show you've recorded, you will see that program information includes thumbnails for other online episodes and links to related information, such as Internet movie trailers and related shows.

Broader Support for Global TV Standards: There is support for a wider range of TV standards to meet the needs of television viewers around the world. Digital TV in Windows 7 works in more than 20 global markets, with certified support for the United States ATSC and QAM cable standard, Japan's ISDB standards (ISDB-T and ISDB-S) European DVB TV standards (DVB-T, DVB-S) and Pay TV standards.

Sharing TV Around the Home: If you have multiple PCs running Media Center in your HomeGroup, you can access TV libraries (in addition to your music, photos, and videos) on those different PCs. You can easily copy a TV show to your portable PC to enjoy on the go. Windows 7 Media Center ensures that all unprotected Windows TV (WTV) recordings can be discovered, played, and copied by any PC running Windows 7 in the HomeGroup; and that all "Copy Freely" and "Copy Once" protected WTV recordings can be discovered, played and copied using Media Center.

Enhanced UI: New features such as turbo scroll make finding the media you want faster, enabling you t quickly move through a large library or TV guide by pressing and holding the right cursor. You can quickly jump to what you want by clicking the seek bar when viewing a show.

Direct3D 11 extends the functionality of the Direct3D 10 pipeline and provides Windows 7 games and high-end 3D applications with efficient, robust, scalable access to the upcoming generation of GPUs and multi-core CPUs. In addition the functionality found in Direct3D 10, Direct3D 11 introduces several new features. Geometry and high-order surfaces can now be tessellated to support scalable, dynamic content in patch and subdivision surface representations.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

PC Magazine has a few articles about Win 7:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2333407,00.asp

Apparently, there will be actual innovative and useful features; I'll try to stop being cynical until I can evaluate it.

--- CHAS


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

More news for the PDC...

1. Clean Installs of Windows 7 are being reported from all over the conference as taking a remarkable 10-15 minutes...
2. The UAC, an area of contention among users, has become highly customizable, with 4 separate levels and the screen blanking when UAC activates is gone.
3. A lot of talk about the new Clear Type Text Tuner, allowing a highly customizable appearance of the Text on your screen. A built in tool that insures that your screen is operating at the best possible resolution.
4. Display settings have been moved to their own separate explorer style window and their is a new Calibration Wizard for improving the color control of your screen
5. The Vista Sidebar will be gone, replaced by the ability to place gadgets wherever they are most useful to the user.
6. The Windows 7 desktop is going to make heavy use of a feature called "Accelerators", introduced in Internet Explorer 8 Beta. This is a little hard to describe without showing you but I have found this to be an incredibly useful feature. In Internet Explorer it provides instant access to all kinds of tools you might need while surfing.
7. A Windows 7 installation takes about 8 GB of disc space as opposed to Vista's 11GB.
8. The new Calculator is the old calculator on Steroids... scientific, mortgage, conversion, lease calculator, etc.
9. Internet Explorer 8 will have a new feature on Windows 7 called InPrivate... one click removal of all history, cookies etc...

More later


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Hansen said:


> I really enjoy Vista and given Windows 7 if building upon Vista, I'm looking forward to Windows 7.
> 
> Larry - Will the beta testing be open to all or by invitation only?


I can't confirm this yet.. but here is the latest scuttlebutt...
If in fact Microsoft has decided to release Windows 7 in time for the College sales season... roughly June, July.. then they are in fact going to accelerate the process. There is evidence to support this, reports from the Professional Developers Conference are reporting that they have never seen an M3 (Microsoft internal designation) release that is virtually completely stable before.

All of this points to skipping the "by invitation only" and going straight to Public Beta.

This makes sense if they have already acheived this level of stability. Get it into as many hands as possible as quickly as possible to find out what problems could remain.

Ok... all that being said, the most current rumor is a late December Public Beta and a release date in June of 2009.

You have to remember though, that Microsoft is not about to let this cat out of the bag until it is completely baked, they really can't afford to, and as Mr. Ballmer states... "it'll be done when it is done".


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Hansen said:


> I really enjoy Vista and given Windows 7 if building upon Vista, I'm looking forward to Windows 7.


Windows 7 has some of the same features that vista has, but Windows 7 is not based on Vista. Windows 7 is based on Power Shell (Partially like Windows 2003 Server). Windows 7 is the OS that Vista *shouldve* been.

Vista will go down in history like ME, a piece of slop that was thrown together for sales while the good OS was being devved.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Windows 7 has some of the same features that vista has, but Windows 7 is not based on Vista. Windows 7 is based on Power Shell (Partially like Windows 2003 Server). Windows 7 is the OS that Vista *shouldve* been.
> 
> Vista will go down in history like ME, a piece of slop that was thrown together for sales while the good OS was being devved.


I am goling to disagree and everythiong written so far does as well... Windows 7 the underlying core of the OS (the kernel plus support code) is largely unchanged from that of Vista and from a technical standpoint, Windows 7 is a minor upgrade. From a usability standpoint, however, Windows 7 is a major upgrade, the Windows Power Shell Integrated Scripting environment is included.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

By the way.. When was PDC? I heard this news a few weeks back on Buzz out Loud (I believe) and their take was usually they run a Beta for 1 1/2 years before release and given that Windows 7's public Beta was going out in December they people talking about it felt that it seems it is being rushed out and their take was that what appears to be a stepped up schedule is a result of the negative view of Vista in the Marketplace.

Accuracy alert >>> Might have gotten some of the timeframe wrong in the above paragraph but that is the general opinion I believe I heard. <<<[/quote]

PDC is under way right now and apparently, the development cycle is going to be thrown out the door with Windows 7. The release being placed inthe hands of people at the PDC is referred to as M3. Normally this would be followed by an "invitation only" beta, followed by the public beta.

What has happened apparently, the M3 release is already the most stable release anyone has seen from Microsoft in years, probably because the basic core is unchanged. The rumor running rampant, with no one going on record from Microsoft, is that Microsoft's internal release date is now June 2009 with the Public Beta beginning in December 2008. This would of course get Windows 7 into the PC makers hands in time for the Back to School and Holiday seasons next year, something Vista largely missed.

We should know shortly if this new schedule is for real or not. Frankly, I suspect it is.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm really looking forward to putting Windows 7 with Home Media Center on my HTPC (currently running 32-bit Vista Home Premium) and on my laptop (currently running 64-bit Vista Home Premium). It'll be nice to have an OS with a smaller footprint, basically giving me more of my resources back!


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## Flyboy917 (Oct 25, 2003)

Don't any of you tech geeks run any version of Linux? Talk about happy with an OS. I've been playing for 3 or 4 years now and it just keeps getting better....and I never worry about malware, viruses, trojans.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I found a blog with a lot of pictures of Windows 7 Media Center, and all I can say is ... wow! That's one busy interface!

http://blog.retrosight.com/WindowsMediaCenterInThePDCBuildOfWindows7.aspx

I do like the progress bar now being clickable - nice touch there.


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks Larry for sharing all the great, insightful info on Windows 7. Much appreciated.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I know I'm really going to like the new Windows 7 taskbar ... no more quick launch, the taskbar IS quicklaunch! Nice!

http://www.betanews.com/article/More_details_on_the_new_Windows_7_Taskbar/1225240803


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

LarryFlowers said:


> I can't confirm this yet.. but here is the latest scuttlebutt...
> If in fact Microsoft has decided to release Windows 7 in time for the College sales season... roughly June, July.. then they are in fact going to accelerate the process. There is evidence to support this, reports from the Professional Developers Conference are reporting that they have never seen an M3 (Microsoft internal designation) release that is virtually completely stable before.
> 
> All of this points to skipping the "by invitation only" and going straight to Public Beta.
> ...


Thanks. How does the public beta work? In other words, I would presume the beta version of Windows (Windows 7 in this case) would be available for free to the general public to try and in return, provide feedback to MS to help improve the final version. But, once it becomes a final version...do the beta users get a copy of the final version or do they have to buy it or do they get to keep the beta version they were using if they chose not to buy the final version?


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Hansen said:


> Thanks. How does the public beta work? In other words, I would presume the beta version of Windows (Windows 7 in this case) would be available for free to the general public to try and in return, provide feedback to MS to help improve the final version. But, once it becomes a final version...do the beta users get a copy of the final version or do they have to buy it or do they get to keep the beta version they were using if they chose not to buy the final version?


Past Public Beta's were made available thru various sources, Microsoft TechNet and Partner web sites, CNET usually had a link to where you could download it... It comes with a reporting tool that you use to report issues back to Microsoft. There is usually a specific number of downloads allowed before it cuts off.

Vista's beta was somewaht different than betas prior to that. There was actual feedback from Microsoft re specific issues, sometimes even a request for more information.

At the completion of the Vista Beta, anyone who had filed reports during the beta received a license. This was unprecedented as Microsoft has never provided any compensation for beta testing.. there are way too many volunteers, but they did do this for the Vista group. I wouldn't count on it again, if it happens just count it as a plus.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Flyboy917 said:


> Don't any of you tech geeks run any version of Linux? Talk about happy with an OS. I've been playing for 3 or 4 years now and it just keeps getting better....and I never worry about malware, viruses, trojans.


I brought that up earlier and pappa Larry slapped me. :lol:


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Flyboy917 said:


> Don't any of you tech geeks run any version of Linux? Talk about happy with an OS. I've been playing for 3 or 4 years now and it just keeps getting better....and I never worry about malware, viruses, trojans.


I ran it for a while on a test bed PC. Interesting OS and it has it's points...

That being said, I saw no further point in using it. No one else is using it "in the real worls" i.e., I don't know any customers who are using Linux PC's.. I am sure there probably are some, somewhere. There are some Linux Servers out there, but if I were going to run a non Windows Server it would be Apache, not Linux. Is Linux relatively immune to threats that Windows faces.. very true... but why would any hacker bother, for the same effort he can get a much bigger return elsewhere. Linux is open source, if it ever became really common, the hackers would have a field day.

There was a major effort to market PC's with Linux thru several big box retailers.. turned out to be a revolving door sale... most were returned.

I wish there was room in this world for all kinds of OS, but in fact there isn't. There are over a billion PC's in the world legitimately running Windows, who knows how many pirate versions. Then there is the MAC presence in the market, not to be sneezed at and enjoying a current wave of popularity. Desktop wise that's really it. There might be a lot of very good reasons to use Linux, unfortunately well never really know. Until there are thousands of companies writing applications, games etc., it isn't really an option.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

Confucius says, "Security of Network in Mind, Not Hardware"


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> Agreed. Vista Ultimate has no problems running on my 5 year old Compaq. 2000, XP and Vista have been rock solid for me. I love Vista, most people who have problems with it are using underpowered hardware.


What does Vista do for the user over and above XP that requires so much more hardware?


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