# DATA COLLECTION: L218 OTA Guide Data Problems



## Allen Noland

If you are still missing guide data for some/all of your OTA digital channels, please post where you are, and the channel (name and number) that you don't have correct or any data for.


Hopefully the list will be much smaller with L218!!


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## lapplegate

Louisville, KY missing guide data.


I subscribe to Dish Locals. The Dish channels are: 9095 to 9103.

I started missing guide data, for 3 of my OTA channels at around 212.
213 did not help. 215 did not help. 216 did not help. And now 218 did not help.

Is it possible the data will load later? Removed all OTA channels and rescanned. No help. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

the channels missing guide data are:
WAVE3 (NBC) 47 mapped to 03-01 (dish 9097)
WKPC15 (PBS) 17 mapped to 015-01 (dish (9101)
WKMJ68 (KET) 38 mapped to 068-01 (dish 9102)

HELLOOOOO, Dish. What do you need to get the data? Don't try saying "a subscription to locals", been doing that for months.
Larry


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## Cyclone

I still don't see Baltimore EPG data from the Washington DMA. Although I am in the Grade A contour of Baltimore.

Wash DC DMA:
WRC 4.1 NBC HD is ok
WRC 4.2 is a NBC Weather Plus station, but no EPG info
WTTG 5.1 FOX is ok
WJLA 7.1 ABC is ok
WJLA 7.2 is a Home Grown "Weather Now" sub-channel, but no EPG info
WUSA 9.1 is ok
WUSA 9.2 is a Doppler radar, but no EPG info
WETA 26.x is a PBS affiliate, no EPG info
WBDC 50.1 is ok

Baltimore DMA: No info at all for non 105 satellites subcribers. But it should be:

2.1 WMAR ABC HDTV programming
2.2 WMAR ABC SD 
2.3 WMAR Doppler
11.1 WBAL NBC HD
11.2 WBAL NBC SD
13.1 WJZ CBS HD
22.x WMPT PBS
45.1 WBFF FOX HD
45.2 WBFF FOX SD
54.1 WNUV WB HD
54.2 WNUV WB SD


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## langlin

I lost this channels guide data with L212 and it is still gone now with L218
I subscribe to Locals and get locals from Springfield, Mo.

I deleted all D and A channels, did a check switch ( don't know why), re-scanned and 
re-added analong and digital stations.

The channel missing guide data is:
KOZK(PBS) RF23 mapped to 21-01 (dish 7226)

My complete OTA picture is as follows:
(IN DMA)
*003-01 NBC I have guide for this channel (KYTV)*
003-02 UPN No guide (didn't expect guide) (KDL-17)
021-01 PBS No guide (expected guide, this guide lost w/L213)(KOZK)
021-02 PBS No guide (didn't expect guide)
021-03 PBS No guide (didn't expect guide)
021-04 PBS No guide

Out of DMA
006-01 PBS No guide (KEMV)
006-02 PBS No guide 
006-03 PBS No guide 
006-04 PBS No guide


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## FrankD1

In Fresno, CA

KGPE 047-01 (CBS)

OTA Guide info available until around L212-L213. None of the recent updates have made a diff. I always delete and rescan after each update. I do subscribe to locals.


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## tnsprin

Allen Noland said:


> If you are still missing guide data for some/all of your OTA digital channels, please post where you are, and the channel (name and number) that you don't have correct or any data for.
> 
> Hopefully the list will be much smaller with L218!!


Still missing WWOR (ch 9-1) Its was there but has been missing since they dropped showing all subchannels (l212 or so).
Other NY channels such as WNET and a bunch of minor channels (carried by DISH in the 8000's) are also missing.


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## keitheva

For me at least, L216 filled in the last of the missing OTA EPG data. It was too good to last.

There is now *no* EPG data whatsoever for all 5 KQED PBS subchannels (009-1 to -5). With L216 all this info was available. Even L215 at least had 009-1.

With L218 I have also lost 043-2 data (KCSM). 043-1 is ok.

And 047-1 and -2 (KTLN) are also gone.

This in the SFBay area. I subscribe to locals.

I'm a Brit, from Yorkshire, and my name is Keith. "Keighley", the town in Yorkshire where Eldon are located, is pronounced "Keithley". So I have felt an affinity and an inclination to be a little protective towards them in the past when criticisms have been made. But I'm afraid even my tolerance has run out at this point. What passes for QA at Eldon I can't imagine. I'm afraid you've rather let the side down chaps.

0 steps forward, 2 steps backward.


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## Grandude

I concur with keitheva, here in Santa Rosa I also lost all 5 KQED PBS subchannels. They were fine with 216.
I also do not have the 43-2 data but don't recall if I had it with 216.
My location in Santa Rosa makes it quite difficult to receive most OTA channels except lately they have been coming in quite strong but only in the evening.

Keitheve, have you been experiencing this too or do you have a better vantage point than I do. I am on the flats near the Luther Burbank center and using an outdoor antenna in the attic. (for esthetic reasons)


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## DonLandis

Got L218 this evening-

Without any action on my part, the previous list of scanned OTA channels populated my guide and were turned on with the install of L218. Back to normal as normal was with L213.

Also, no guide data for any OTA channel is present either. Like it was for L213

I did not have Dish activate the LIL for $5.98 for one month free just to have my free local channels. They asked me to call them, I did. Left them a message. They said they would call back at a specific time. I waited and they did not call back. I didn't bother to follow up since I really didn't want to play the candyman game with them.


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## keitheva

Grandude said:


> I concur with keitheva, here in Santa Rosa I also lost all 5 KQED PBS subchannels. They were fine with 216.
> I also do not have the 43-2 data but don't recall if I had it with 216.
> My location in Santa Rosa makes it quite difficult to receive most OTA channels except lately they have been coming in quite strong but only in the evening.
> 
> Keitheve, have you been experiencing this too or do you have a better vantage point than I do. I am on the flats near the Luther Burbank center and using an outdoor antenna in the attic. (for esthetic reasons)


Hi Grandude,

I am in the hills SE of Santa Rosa, and have a CM4228 8-bay UHF antenna on the roof. I have always had pretty good reception here. As well as the Sutro Tower stations, I can also get KNTV (11) fairly consistently, which is from Loma Prieta, about 100 miles away.

Here's hoping that L219 or whatever it is at least gets us to back to where L216 was. Seems like L218 has not improved things for anybody, and has regressed functionality for many of us.

Cheers,
-Keith


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## Leroy

With the 215 update I was getting all the OTA guide correctly. Now KCET channel 28 in the Los Angeles Area is Local info again. Will wait for the list to populate a few days reboot and rescan and try again  

Leroy


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## kzosat

I sub to dish locals and now with 218 I get no OTA Guide data for:

GrandRapids, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek DMA Michigan

WXMI Fox channel 17 analog channel 19 digital
WOTV ABC Channel 41 analog channel 20 digital
WOOD NBC channel 8 analog channel 7 Digital
WGVK PBS never got guide data channel 5 digital


I can't pickup CBS OTA.


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## bnam

I've lost the guide data for KQED (all sub channels). I live in the Sacramento area and KQED may not be considered my home market station, but due to propagation I've been recieving it better than my local PBS (KVIE). With 215 I got guide info (since I don't sub to locals), then lost and got back on 216 with free local subs. Now I still get the other channel guides but not KQED. I thought it was perhaps because I was out of the area, but looksl like some in Bay area have lost it too.
B


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## Bradtothebone

Kansas City, MO DMA:

I'm subscribing temporarily to Dish LIL's (one month free).
Under L218, I got one more channel added to the OTA guide, WDAF (FOX) 034-1 (analog channel 4).

Still missing:
KCPT 019-1 (This is the PBS national HD feed, was not expecting guide data)
KCPT 019-2 (This is the local PBS feed, should have data)
KCWE 029-1 (UPN)
KPXE 050-1 (PAX East, and the local PAX feed - should have data)
KPXE 050-2
KPXE 050-3
KPXE 050-4

Ironically, now that I have guide data for FOX, I can no longer RECEIVE it. I think I was getting some tropo skip, coincidentally, during the time L216 was installed. WDAF broadcasts at 1.1 kW.

(Update: I know it is really not germain to this discussion, but as of August 1, WDAF is receivable again. I understand they raised their temporary antenna somewhat, and that seems to have made all the difference.)

Brad


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## paulrus

Fort Wayne, IN

I've got 218 and still have no OTA guide data - I do not subscribe to locals.
I've deleted and rescanned with no luck.

Also, since 216 2 of my locals have changed names. Now instead of something like WXYZ they say R19.

Haven't had time to check signal strength. So far the 921 has performed terribly compared to my parents Samsung TV with built-in HDTV tuner (and they live in the middle of a 13 acre woods, 3 miles further away from the TV towers than me).

Paul


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## pwherr

I sub to locals.I have been missing KXRM 21(FOX) Colorado Springs,Colorado for a long time and now with new software am still missing info for this channel but it is the only one.


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## Mark Lamutt

Just to be absolutely clear about this, if you do not subscribe to your Dish locals package, you will not see any guide data for your OTA channels.

Also, a lot of PBS stations are still spotty at best, and especially the ones that have multiple subchannels.


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## jergenf

paulrus said:


> Fort Wayne, IN
> 
> I've got 218 and still have no OTA guide data - I do not subscribe to locals.
> I've deleted and rescanned with no luck.
> 
> Also, since 216 2 of my locals have changed names. Now instead of something like WXYZ they say R19.
> 
> Haven't had time to check signal strength. So far the 921 has performed terribly compared to my parents Samsung TV with built-in HDTV tuner (and they live in the middle of a 13 acre woods, 3 miles further away from the TV towers than me).
> 
> Paul


You do not subscribe therefore not permitted to have guide info that's not a mistake but dish's intention.

But most important are you receiving all your OTA channels in the guide area? If the channels are not mapped into your guide you can't acces them even though they appear in menu 6 - 8 listing.

Is Rf19 also appearing in the guide? That is a PSIP problem from your station so you may need to retry tuning it in.

Also are you able to see your LIL in the 7000-9000 area of the guide as red perhaps? Were you able to see them before with L216 or L215?

Note: If you are temporarly subscribed then we will have to wait a see after you cancel them.


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## keitheva

Mark Lamutt said:


> Also, a lot of PBS stations are still spotty at best, and especially the ones that have multiple subchannels.


The point is Mark, we had all 5 KQED-DT and both KCSM-DT subchannels with L216, and now with L218 they are gone. This is a regression.


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## dturturro

Mark Lamutt said:


> Also, a lot of PBS stations are still spotty at best, and especially the ones that have multiple subchannels.


Just out of curiosity, does ANYONE receive guide data for their subchannels? Here in NY I'm not getting any subchannel guide data. Not a big deal for the major networks but the PBS stations are loaded with original content.


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## kzosat

Mark Lamutt said:


> Just to be absolutely clear about this, if you do not subscribe to your Dish locals package, you will not see any guide data for your OTA channels.
> 
> Also, a lot of PBS stations are still spotty at best, and especially the ones that have multiple subchannels.


This update is fked. per my previous post, I have had the dish locals package since I got dish and now my 921 has NO EPG DATA of OTA channels. This is just absolutely amazing (in a bad way)


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## bpauld

Prior to 218 update I had OTA sub channel guide information. Now I don't have any info. where sub channels are broadcasting different programming than the main channel. The SF PBS channels 9-2, 9-3, 9-4, 9-5 now list no information. Prior to 218 I had complete guide data. I subscribe to locals.


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## Mark Lamutt

kzosat said:


> This update is fked. per my previous post, I have had the dish locals package since I got dish and now my 921 has NO EPG DATA of OTA channels. This is just absolutely amazing (in a bad way)


And how does this post help? You don't give any indication where you are, or what channels you're having problems with.


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## Ron Barry

dturturro said:


> Just out of curiosity, does ANYONE receive guide data for their subchannels? Here in NY I'm not getting any subchannel guide data. Not a big deal for the major networks but the PBS stations are loaded with original content.


I get guide information for SubChannels. I am in the LA DMA. From what I can tell, it looks like it depends a lot of what is placed the streams.


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## Curmudgeon

Mark Lamutt said:


> Just to be absolutely clear about this, if you do not subscribe to your Dish locals package, you will not see any guide data for your OTA channels.
> 
> Also, a lot of PBS stations are still spotty at best, and especially the ones that have multiple subchannels.


Just to confirm your post, I subscribe to Dish locals and I have guide data for all analog and ALL digital channels with the exception of a single local PBS digital channel. Charlotte NC dma


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## Grandude

Mark,
Along with losing the San Francisco PBS subchannels which we were getting, and quite nicely I might add, I now have a new and different problem with all the subscribed local channels which are remapped to their local number. ie, 8221, KPIX is mapped as channel 5 which is correct, BUT, when I select this or any other remapped channel, my 921 now switches to the unmapped channel 8221 or the other corresponding 8000 channel. This makes it difficult to switch back and forth between an OTA channel and its corresponding remapped channel. Once this happens I now have to manually enter the OTA channel again rather than just scrolling down to the remapped channel. I hope I am being clear about this. If you don't get what I am trying to say, I will try to expand on it.

(EDIT)It is now one day later and the guide is now back to normal. Sure don't understand why it wasn't working properly yesterday.


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## onethree

L218 did not help my situation. I still have no guide information for the following stations. These are the same stations that I lost with L213 and the same stations that were the last to get DVR function.

DTV 27 KFOR-NBC Remap 4.1, 4.2
DTV 39 KWTV-CBS Remap 9.1
DTV 32 KETA-PBS Remap 13.1,13.2,13.3,13.4

I subscribe to the OKC Locals with Dish.


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## kzosat

Mark Lamutt said:


> And how does this post help? You don't give any indication where you are, or what channels you're having problems with.


Umm, if you notice, I posted earlier in the thread.... I even referred to my previous post in the second post. And if you look again, this will be my third reference to my original post in this thread.... But, since you are not reading the whole thread here is a copy and paste of my original post



ME said:


> I sub to dish locals and now with 218 I get no OTA Guide data for:
> 
> GrandRapids, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek DMA Michigan
> 
> WXMI Fox channel 17 analog channel 19 digital
> WOTV ABC Channel 41 analog channel 20 digital
> WOOD NBC channel 8 analog channel 7 Digital
> WGVK PBS never got guide data channel 5 digital
> 
> I can't pickup CBS OTA.


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## Skates

I subscribe to locals in Los Angeles and under L218 I have lost all subchannel info on all of my OTA stations except the primary channel. Everything else is back to saying "local programming"

I was getting info for all subchannels previously and this is a real step backwards...


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## bdeblis

Same thing goes for me in OKC. The same problem as onethree


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## pdlittle

With L215 I had the wrong guide data for one station (KGAN out of Cedar Rapids, IA) and one PBS Station (KRIN out of Waterloo, IA) with no guide data. No change occured with L216. With L218 I now have no guide data for KGAN or KRIN. I understand the issue with KRIN and I have provided the standard contact information for KGAN. I hope this helps.

This is an update on my KGAN guide data. When they went to the prime time network feed, the PSIP data for KGAN changed and I am now recieving the wrong guide data again. The data I get is for KGO which is apparently an ABC affiliated station somewhere in the Pacific time zone. (KGAN is a CBS affiliate in the central time zone.) So there is no change with regard to corrected guide data information with L218 in my case.

Paul

KGAN STATION INFO

UHF 51.1 and 51.2

Channels Remapped to 2-1 and 2-2 respectively.

Street Address
KGAN-TV
600 Old Marion Rd. NE
Cedar Rapids, IA 52402

Mailing Address
KGAN-TV
PO Box 3131
Cedar Rapids, IA 52406

Business Hours
8:00 am - 5:00 pm (Monday - Friday)

Email-
[email protected]

Phone Numbers 
319-395-9060 or 800-642-6140


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## Rory

New Orleans DMA 

No change since L216

Missing OTA channel info - channel present but (LOCAL PROGRAMMING) listed...

WPXL-DT channel 50 remapped to channel 49.x:
WPXL 49-1
PAXW 49-2
WORSHIP 49-3
FAITH 49-4

WYES-DT channel 11 remapped to channel 12.x
WYES 12.1 PBS-HD

WDSU-DT channel 43 remapped to channel 6.x
WDSU-DT 6.1 channel guide okay
6.2 shows in channel guide (Local Programming)

The channels with no guide data are not LIL. 

Rory
Lacombe, LA


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## lujan

I am posting the same information that I posted under L216. I didn't even bother removing all of the locals, rebooting and then re-adding because I don't think it would do a bit of good. This is so frustrating because it was working prior to L213 and they can't seem to get it to work again. Once the D* MPeg 4 receivers are out, I will be seriously looking into switching over.  Here is my previous post:

I am in Albuquerque and L216 does not seem to have made a bit of difference. I have not had guide data for these two stations since before L213 where I lost all of them. I now have most of them back but the following two:

35-1 remapped to 005-01 - KNME (PBS)
21-1 remapped to 007-01 - KOAT (ABC)

I have completely lost 26-1 remapped to 004-01 (KOB - NBC) but I'm not sure if it's because of some local problems or because of L216. It is very frustrating to go through all of the steps 1)remove all of the local stations, 2)unplug the 921, 3)plug back in after about 5 minutes and reboot, 4)re-add all of the local stations and find out that nothings changed. Yes, I am a subscriber of the local stations from E*. Will E* ever get this right? It was all fine before a software upgrade so I don't see why it is so difficult to get it right again.


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## Tweeterhead

I've been through 3 updates now and don't have all of my OTA guide data. WGN 9 (19)Chicago and PBS WTTW Channel 11(47) say Local Programming while CBS, ABC , NBC and Fox all of the right info. I've done the whole deleting and rescanning thing, including hard resets and reseting the whole unit to defaults. I just want all my channels to have info for easy recording. Is it that hard?

Intermittant problems with weak OTA since 215. 30-70 signal strength when I used to have in the 90's. I've replaced cables and added an amplifier with no luck.218 didn't help in fact I get nothing tonight after clearing and rescanning.

Crystal Lake, IL. 30 miles NW of Chicago

Model ID: DishDVR 921
Card Revision: DNASP103 Rev302
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052
SW Version: L218HECD-N


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## Gut

No guide data for Memphis, Tn. Lost all my guide data except for WMC 5.1 NBC around L213 I believe, lost NBC with L215.

WREG-DT 3.1 CBS 
WMC-DT 5.1 NBC 
WKNO-DT 10.1 PBS 
WPTY-DT 24.1 ABC 
WLMT-DT 30.1 UPN 

I have been subscribing to the Dish local channels ever since they have been available. I deleted all the channels and rescanned but it didnt help. All my guide displays is LOCAL PROGRAMMING!


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## bhawley

Raleigh/Durham NC

05-01 WRAL5 no guide data
50-01 FOX50 no guide data

I sub to locals.


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## ebaltz

With 215 and 216 I had guide data for the PBS HD channel in Phoenix (8.1) It isn't showing up now with 218.


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## KKlare

lujan said:


> I am posting the same information that I posted under L216. ...
> I am in Albuquerque and L216 does not seem to have made a bit of difference. I have not had guide data for these two stations since before L213 where I lost all of them. I now have most of them back but the following two:
> 
> 35-1 remapped to 005-01 - KNME (PBS)
> 21-1 remapped to 007-01 - KOAT (ABC)
> 
> I have completely lost 26-1 remapped to 004-01 (KOB - NBC) but I'm not sure if it's because of some local problems or because of L216. It is very frustrating to go through all of the steps 1)remove all of the local stations, 2)unplug the 921, 3)plug back in after about 5 minutes and reboot, 4)re-add all of the local stations and find out that nothings changed. Yes, I am a subscriber of the local stations from E*. Will E* ever get this right? It was all fine before a software upgrade so I don't see why it is so difficult to get it right again.


KNME 35-1 =>005-1 is the PBSHD channel, which I believe is not mapped for any DMA but all they need is one national list to be mapped to all.

There are no listings for the 4 KNMD subchannels (PBS-U, PBS-Kids-E, Kids-W, another) but no need to remap for 009 with analog analogue. Again that could be national.

KOAT 21-1 => 007-1 is the current ABC-HD synchronized to Mountain Time and otherwise the same content as ABC-SD analog. The content was the Eastern Time HD feed many months ago, well before most updates. The SD-DT content was correctly mapped from 8810 to 007-2 at that time. It still is but that is now a USD channel and there is no SD-DT channel. All they have to do it reroute the 8810=>7-2 to 8810=>7-1 and that will be fixed.

I could use 8810 analog listings mixed with digital and get most the benefit but I kind of like to jump the whole blue listing of 7 subchannels (Fox 2, NBC 4, PBS 5-1 5-2, ABC 7, CBS 13, WB 19, UPN 50) with one press into VOOM and another past HBO-HD to Dsc-HD.

I hope Fox (now with 2-2) and NBC (now with 4-2?) get their transmitters stablized.
-Ken


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## lujan

KKlare said:


> KNME 35-1 =>005-1 is the PBSHD channel, which I believe is not mapped for any DMA but all they need is one national list to be mapped to all.
> 
> There are no listings for the 4 KNMD subchannels (PBS-U, PBS-Kids-E, Kids-W, another) but no need to remap for 009 with analog analogue. Again that could be national.
> 
> KOAT 21-1 => 007-1 is the current ABC-HD synchronized to Mountain Time and otherwise the same content as ABC-SD analog. The content was the Eastern Time HD feed many months ago, well before most updates. The SD-DT content was correctly mapped from 8810 to 007-2 at that time. It still is but that is now a USD channel and there is no SD-DT channel. All they have to do it reroute the 8810=>7-2 to 8810=>7-1 and that will be fixed.
> 
> I could use 8810 analog listings mixed with digital and get most the benefit but I kind of like to jump the whole blue listing of 7 subchannels (Fox 2, NBC 4, PBS 5-1 5-2, ABC 7, CBS 13, WB 19, UPN 50) with one press into VOOM and another past HBO-HD to Dsc-HD.
> 
> I hope Fox (now with 2-2) and NBC (now with 4-2?) get their transmitters stablized.
> -Ken


I appreciate the information KKlare, so they just need to show the same guide information that they show for 8810 for 07-1 and show the same guide information for the national PBS for 05-1 to get it right?


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## mwgiii

Birmingham, AL
10-1 WBIQ PBS HD 53 (PBS National HD Feed)
10-2 WBIQ PBS SD 53 (Alabama Public Television)

Since I have had my 921 I have never had any guide info for PBS.

Other digital channels missing guide info:
44-1 WPXH PAX SD 45
44-2 WPXH PaxWest SD 45
44-3 WPXH Worship SD 45
44-4 WPXH Faith SD 45

60-1 WTJP TBN SD 26


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## langlin

Mark or Allen, as I read though these postings, it seems there are a disproportionate number of PBS stations missing OTA guide data, is this a clue or a coincidence?


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## Michael P

langlin said:


> Mark or Allen, as I read though these postings, it seems there are a disproportionate number of PBS stations missing OTA guide data, is this a clue or a coincidence?


It's probably because most PBS stations carry a different program schedule on their DT channels than they curently carry on their analog channel.

For example, in my DMA (Cleveland) we have 2 PBS channels WVIZ and WEAO.
WVIZ does not carry a digital version of their analog chanel. 25-1 is PBS-HD, 25-2 is The Ohio Channel, 25-9 is "CRRS" which is an audio only channel (also availabe on the SAP channel of the analog channel) for the blind.

WEAO does carry a digital version of their analog channel, but it's on 50-2, 50-1 is PBS-HD - just like WVIZ. Additionally WEAO does not map their analog channel number on their DT feed. This channel is carried in 2 different DMA's Cleveland & Youngstown. The Youngstown "feed", WNEO, is analog 45 digital 46. That channel DOES map to 45-1 & 45-2, while the Akron/Cleveland feed keeps their digital RF channel 50-1, 50-2 insted of 49 (the analog channel).

Such inconsistencies is probably the reason most PBS stations are not included in the 921's guide data. There are exceptions, it's reported that at least one California PBS affilliate's guide data is correct for both main and subchannels! How that can be since the subchannels are not carried in the LIL's is beyond me (unless one of the subchannels is PBS-YOU in which case they could map from the "PI" channels). But that is just one possible channel out of 4 subchannels.


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## langlin

Actually, while what you say is true I'm sure in your area and could cause problems in some areas, my PBS does carry the same programming schedule on 23-1 as their Analog and the Guide is correct in the Dish LIL, it just doesn't remap. Also prior to L212, it did remap and was correct.


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## Grandude

Michael P said:


> It's probably because most PBS stations carry a different program schedule on their DT channels than they curently carry on their analog channel.
> 
> Such inconsistencies is probably the reason most PBS stations are not included in the 921's guide data.


BUT, when we had L216 which was giving free guides to all, our local PBS had all the subchannels listed correctly. Prior to 216 the guide did not.

It looks like they can do it but just don't know how or what they are doing at times.


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## DanB33

I get OTA Guide data for all Stations in Grand Rapids, MI except WZZM-DT, channel 39 mapped 013-01 and WZPX-DT channel 44 mapped 043-01. I do not get Guide info for any Sub Channels. I do Subscribe to the GR Locals on DISH.
WZPX is the PAX Station and not in the GR Locals Package.
WZZM is one of two ABC Affiliates in Grand Rapids and the POP for DISH in GR. I get Local for the current show and No Information for others.
Contact Info for WZZM:
Chuck Mikowski
WZZM13
PO Box Z
Grand Rapids, MI 49501

I hope this helps.


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## Michael P

Grandude said:


> BUT, when we had L216 which was giving free guides to all, our local PBS had all the subchannels listed correctly. Prior to 216 the guide did not.
> 
> It looks like they can do it but just don't know how or what they are doing at times.


215 was the s/w version that gave some "free" guides, 216 took away the guides and the ability to view the -01 channels for the stations that had guide data in 215.

As for why the SFO PBS has subchannel guide data, it's a mystery. An educated guess is that the station is doing something in their PSIP data stream that otheres are not doing, since the subchannels are not carried on E* LIL's (or at least not carried as an LIL, some may be "PI" channels).

For those who get guide data on the SFO PBS: are you subscribing to E* LIL's in order to get the guide data?


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## Ron Barry

I did a quick check with my PBS stations in Los Angeles. On my 921, I get guide info for channel 28-2 and not on 28-1. As a comparision, my 811 shows guide info for both sub-channels. 

If I recall the 811 and the 921 uses different EPG guide streams but I am not 100% certain.


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## keitheva

Michael P said:


> As for why the SFO PBS has subchannel guide data, it's a mystery. An educated guess is that the station is doing something in their PSIP data stream that otheres are not doing, since the subchannels are not carried on E* LIL's (or at least not carried as an LIL, some may be "PI" channels).
> 
> For those who get guide data on the SFO PBS: are you subscribing to E* LIL's in order to get the guide data?


We had a long discussion about this at the time SFO PBS KQED-DT and KCSM-DT first showed up with all 5 and 2 subchannels correctly described in the EPG with the L216 release. Since the EPG data went out the full 8 days, but PSIP was never more than about 12 hours (verified by using other OTA receivers which display PSIP guide data), the conclusion was that Dish gets the guide data from some other source and plugs it into their datastream, where it is read by the receiver.

This is of course all moot, since with L218 we now get no guide data whatsoever for KQED-DT, and only the -01 subchannel for KCSM.

I subscribe to locals.

So much for progress.


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## ebaltz

Yeah it is a big step backwards.


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## motrac

Ron Barry said:


> I
> 
> If I recall the 811 and the 921 uses different EPG guide streams but I am not 100% certain.


You are correct. Dish doesn't care if you get complete guide info for all channels with an 811, you can get that same info from your local paper's t.v. guide but with the 921 they are deliberately playing games with the guides so you don't have the ability to just click on a shows title and create a timer. Yes you can enter the timer manually but they know we soon will want the
easy way of clicking the guide and because the only way we'll get that ability is to pay them more money for our local package
From their point of view it's a good business move, get every dime you can out of the paying public which stinks for us.


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## Ron Barry

motrac said:


> You are correct. Dish doesn't care if you get complete guide info for all channels with an 811, you can get that same info from your local paper's t.v. guide but with the 921 they are deliberately playing games with the guides so you don't have the ability to just click on a shows title and create a timer. Yes you can enter the timer manually but they know we soon will want the
> easy way of clicking the guide and because the only way we'll get that ability is to pay them more money for our local package
> From their point of view it's a good business move, get every dime you can out of the paying public which stinks for us.


I was referring to EPG streams not their business practices. I believe the 811 does not use the 9 day guide stream. THe 921 does. This could account for differences in what id displayed when you have subbed for locals.


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## Grandude

Michael P said:


> 215 was the s/w version that gave some "free" guides, 216 took away the guides and the ability to view the -01 channels for the stations that had guide data in 215.
> 
> For those who get guide data on the SFO PBS: are you subscribing to E* LIL's in order to get the guide data?


I stand corrected on the version number. They came through so fast that I forgot what number was what.

With 215, we in the SF Bay area got a wonderful listing in the guide for all the KQED (PBS) subchannels out to two weeks. My point is that Dish does have the information to do this and apparently doesn't have the ability to do it without giving it to all who don't subscribe to the locals. 

I subscribe to local since I have more than one TV and Dish receiver besides my 921 and 811.


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## Johndris

KQED is my strongest signal, with direct line of sight to the antennae on Twin Peaks. 

However, like several on this thread, I have lost the information for the excellent off-air digital KQED channels out of San Francisco. I had them in the last software upgrade but now they are gone with whatever number we are currently on. I get all the other local channel information since I subscribe to them on Dish (but never watch them on Dish now since the Dish quality is way below off-air for my locals). 

John Driscoll
San Francisco


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## fkasten

I live in Louisville, KY and my situation is exactly the same as lapplegate's quoted below.

Frank Kasten



lapplegate said:


> Louisville, KY missing guide data.
> 
> I subscribe to Dish Locals. The Dish channels are: 9095 to 9103.
> 
> I started missing guide data, for 3 of my OTA channels at around 212.
> 213 did not help. 215 did not help. 216 did not help. And now 218 did not help.
> 
> Is it possible the data will load later? Removed all OTA channels and rescanned. No help. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> the channels missing guide data are:
> WAVE3 (NBC) 47 mapped to 03-01 (dish 9097)
> WKPC15 (PBS) 17 mapped to 015-01 (dish (9101)
> WKMJ68 (KET) 38 mapped to 068-01 (dish 9102)
> 
> HELLOOOOO, Dish. What do you need to get the data? Don't try saying "a subscription to locals", been doing that for months.
> Larry


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## harsh

I'm on the "temporary" subscription to the Portland Oregon locals and with the Dish HD-34 being less than stellar with SD, the Dish locals aren't going to be in my future. I get signals between 95 and 125 on all of the OTA channels.

I see guide data for the analog and first digital (it appears to be the same information) for all of the Dish carried stations except the PBS station. KATU (ABC), KPTV (Fox) and KPDX (UPN) have only a single digital channel.

What is missing:

KOIN-DT2 (CBS, usually SD digital version of analog)
KGW-WX (NBC, localized version of the NBC weather channel)
KOPB-DT1 (PBS, usually different content from analog)
KPXG-DT1,2,3,4 (PAX, locals generally not carried by Dish)

This has been consistent throughout the various software reversions that I've been subjected to.

TitanTV says that I should be seeing a KOIN-DT3 and an KOPB-DT2, but I don't think that they are actually broadcast. They also say that KPXG isn't digital yet, but they offer four channels so go figure.


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## WhatMud

I subscribe to Dish Locals in Knoxville, TN. 

Every few days I loose the signal for WBIR (NBC) 10 mapped to 10-01 (Dish 9312). Only a power cord reboot fixes it. I have tried, deleting, rescanning, and front panel power-off to no avail. This is the channel I watch the news on each evening, it is very annoying to come home to find out I have to reboot the system to watch. It is working fine when I leave for work, so just turning off the TV and DVR seem to make it happen. 

I can scan and pickup about 15 analog channels, but they don’t show in the guide at all. If I try to change to one of them manually, DVR tunes to Dish 101. There are other local channels available on local cable that aren’t in the Dish package. Seems we should be able to get them for the price we are paying.

No guide data for the following:
WATE (ABC) 6 mapped to 06-01 (Dish 9310)
WKOP (PBS HD) 15 mapped to 015-01 (No Dish equivalent, but since I subscribe to the HD package shouldn’t it be available?)
WTNZ (FOX) 43 mapped to 043-01 (Dish 9313)

WKOP (PBS) 15 mapped to 015-02 (Dish 9316) seems to lose signal quite often, pretty much makes it impossible to watch. 

Like johndris I never watch locals on Dish, since the quality is way below off-air quality for locals we are paying so much for.


TV: Sony KDF-55WF655 connected component
Model ID: DishDVR 921
Card Revision: DNASP103 Rev302
Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F054
SW Version: L218HEED-N


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## lenny

This is basically a cut/paste from my post to the L216 OTA guide issue. I just changed my receiver software to L218. I'm having the exact same problem ever since L212.....Lenny

I'm in the Buffalo, New York market and I subscribe to the dish locals. Here's my situation which has been the same since I think L212. At L212 I received all OTA guide data for all stations. I think L213 took away the OTA guide data for the stations listed below and I haven't received them since. So the below info applies since L213.

Also, which may be pertinent my local stations are located between 9125-9132.

Station - Call Letters - Do I get guide data
-------- ------------ ---------------------
002-01 wgrz No
004-01 wivb No
007-01 wkbw Yes
023-01 wnlo Yes
029-01 wutv Yes
049-01 wnyo No

Don't know if this matters but locals that are on the same satellite and spotbeam doesn't matter to OTA guide data. That is, wivb and wkbw are on 110 and spotbeam 8 and per the above one gets the OTA guide data and one does not.

My 921 info is:
Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052
SW Version: L218HECD-N

Hitachi Ultravision 61" 61swx01w

Lenny


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## KKlare

motrac said:


> You are correct. Dish doesn't care if you get complete guide info for all channels with an 811, you can get that same info from your local paper's t.v. guide but with the 921 they... Yes you can enter the timer manually but they know we soon will want the easy way of clicking the guide and because the only way we'll get that ability is to pay them ... .


TV sections do not cover subchannels, especially PBS. They are not searchable. They are a lot less usable and may match cable instead.

I clicked record on a primetime movie and because the underlying guide is just blocks it cut off well short of the 3 hours. Yes I should have not just clicked OK but chosen the select end time option. Next time.
-Ken


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## seadoo

Tri Cities Tn/va

Wkpt - Abc 19-1 Fr 27


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## Slordak

As Tweeterhead mentioned in the other forum, the Chicago local programming guide has been missing several channels for a number of releases now; this is not new to L218 or L215. Channels such as ABC, NBC, and CBS are fine, but some of the "more minor" channels have issues.

Missing guide data:
WGN-DT, channel 9.1 (Freq. 19), which is the WB affiliate in Chicago.
- This channel should be mapped to the guide data for channel 8494.
WTTW-DT, channel 11.1 (Freq. 47), which is a Chicago PBS station.
- This channel should be mapped to the guide data for channel 8496.

Notes:
A) I do subscribe to Chicago locals and I do physically live in this DMA.
B) I do have a 61.5 Dish 300 in addition to my 110/119 Dish 500.


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## madbrain

Like many others, I have a problem in the SF bay area about not getting the guide for any of the PBS subchannels anymore - 9.1 through 9.5 .

Pre-L215 I had OTA with no guide (I was not an LIL subscriber)
L215 added a free guide for all 5 KQED subchannels
L216 broke all OTA for me, not just the guide
L216 got me a free LIL subscription, which restored the KQED guide
L218 broke the guide for KQED

Now I feel like I'm not getting the guide I'm supposed to get for free .

I can't imagine the confusion of people who don't read this forum (ie. regular Dish customers who own a 921 !).


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## Grandude

madbrain said:


> Now I feel like I'm not getting the guide I'm supposed to get for free .
> 
> I can't imagine the confusion of people who don't read this forum (ie. regular Dish customers who own a 921 !).


Hopefully they are all calling Dish and complaining. :nono2:


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## Damiang

Regrettably, I am disappointed to report that 218 did nothing to resolve the OTA missing guide data as below. Still not working for all the NO channels since 212, which was fully populated except for the local PBS-HD (WNED. :nono2: 

Market: Buffalo, New York market with a subscription to the dish locals.

With L212 I had ALL OTA data for all the below locals except WNED for which I never had any data. Strangely, I am receiving guide data in the sub channel for WNED 43-1.

Station - Call Letters - Guide Data received...

002-01 wgrz No
004-01 wivb No
007-01 wkbw Yes
023-01 wnlo Yes
029-01 wutv Yes
049-01 wnyo No 
043-1 wned No
043-2 wned Yes! 

Canadian (not subscribed to) but received OTA
005-1 CKX1 No
015-1 CKXT-No

Thanks!

Regards,
Damian


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## gboot

No change with 218, I recieve guide data for most digital OTA channels except PBS, which is 12-1 and 12-2 (National feed) and some local Philly/ South Jersey stations. I hoped that I would see the National PBS guide data with 218.


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## Jason Kragt

WZZM-DT 13-1 from Grand Rapids, MI is still missing guide data.


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## madbrain

Has anybody unsubscribed from the free locals yet to find out what kind of behavior L218 has when you don't subscribe to LIL ?
Is OTA reception still completely broken like in L216 ? Or do you just get no guide, as in the L213 and earlier days ?


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## angiodan

Had guide data for Fort Myers locals except PBS with L215. (do not subscribe to locals, just distants)
Lost the channels with 216.
Channels back with 218, but no more guide data. It was nice while it lasted!


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## pwherr

No guide info FOX 21 KXRM Colorado Springs,CO OTA with local sub.Comes up on dish channel but not on OTA.


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## langlin

With L219 my guide is unchanged from L218 so *if * L219 was to fix the OTA guide, it did *NOT* fix mine.

My complete OTA picture is as follows:
(IN DMA)
*RF 44 - 003-01 NBC I have guide for this channel (KYTV)*
RF 44 - 003-02 UPN No guide (didn't expect guide) (KDL-17)
RF23 - 021-01 PBS No guide (expected guide, this guide lost w/L213)(KOZK)
RF23 - 021-02 PBS No guide (didn't expect guide)
RF23 - 021-03 PBS No guide (didn't expect guide)
RF23 - 021-04 PBS No guide

Out of DMA
RF13 - 006-01 PBS No guide (KEMV)
RF13 - 006-02 PBS No guide 
RF13 - 006-03 PBS No guide 
RF13 - 006-04 PBS No guide


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## keitheva

-Keith


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## lapplegate

lapplegate said:


> Louisville, KY missing guide data.
> 
> I subscribe to Dish Locals. The Dish channels are: 9095 to 9103.
> 
> I started missing guide data, for 3 of my OTA channels at around 212.
> 213 did not help. 215 did not help. 216 did not help. And now 218 did not help.
> 
> Is it possible the data will load later? Removed all OTA channels and rescanned. No help. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> the channels missing guide data are:
> WAVE3 (NBC) 47 mapped to 03-01 (dish 9097)
> WKPC15 (PBS) 17 mapped to 015-01 (dish (9101)
> WKMJ68 (KET) 38 mapped to 068-01 (dish 9102)
> 
> HELLOOOOO, Dish. What do you need to get the data? Don't try saying "a subscription to locals", been doing that for months.
> Larry


Same for 219. 
At least the reporting is easier, just have to use one of the reports from 213, 215, 216 or 218.


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## DanB33

With L219, still no Guide data for WZZM-DT 013-01 ATSC Channel 39 in Grand Rapids, MI.
I do subscribe to GR Locals. WZZM is 8710 on Dish.
There are 2 ABC Station in GR, WZZM and WOTV.
WZZM is the only VHF Station (13) with a UHF Digital Station (39).
Also, no Guide for WZPX, PAX. But WZPX is not in the GR Locals Package.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Even with 219 update, I still have the following issues.

It seems as though my off-air local stations that are also on E*'s wing satellite (61.5) are not getting local guide info. It might be because the 921 can't read the guide info since they're on the wing satellite, the stations are not broadcasting the PSIP info correctly, or that this is a bug with the 921.

I have a bug report thread here that describes this in better detail:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=434802


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## Damiang

2.19- Still Missing Guide Data
Well, no change with the missing guide data from 2.13. This is getting real frustrating as I am ready to chuck this POS out the window. Also I have noticed since 2.18 that 4:3 material and commercials during HD broadcasts in 1080i mode are not centered to the screen anymore. Everything seems shifted almost 1.5 inches to the right Regarding the channel guide, I am getting alot of cut and paste practice with this. As such...

Regrettably, I am disappointed to report again that 219 did nothing to resolve the OTA missing guide data as below. Still not working for all the NO channels since 212, which was fully populated except for the local PBS-HD (WNED. 

Market: Buffalo, New York market with a subscription to the dish locals.

With L212 I had ALL OTA data for all the below locals except WNED for which I never had any data. Strangely, I am receiving guide data in the sub channel for WNED 43-1.

Station - Call Letters - Guide Data received...

002-01 wgrz No
004-01 wivb No
007-01 wkbw Yes
023-01 wnlo Yes
029-01 wutv Yes
049-01 wnyo No 
043-1 wned No
043-2 wned Yes! 

Canadian (not subscribed to) but received OTA
005-1 CKX1 No
015-1 CKXT-No

Thanks!

Regards,
Damian


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## onethree

Once again the latest software update did not improve the Guide situation in Oklahoma City. I still do not have Guide information for KFOR-NBC (27,remap 4.1,4.2), KWTV-CBS (39,remap 9.1) and KETA-PBS (32,remap 13.1,13.2,13.3,13.4).


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## revenson

I sub to locals...no guide for nbc-hd 005-02..had at 211...no data for fox-hd 013-02 had at 211...live in Salt Lake City!


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## Leroy

219 did fix my PBS guide data, for Los Angeles. Looks the same as 215 at this point  Thanks folks


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## bhawley

Raleigh/Durham NC

05-01 WRAL5 no guide data
50-01 FOX50 no guide data

I sub to locals.

Needle stuck


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## Hubbs

Chicago 009-01 WGN "No information available"

Should have same guide info as channel 8494.

I subscribe to locals, have 219.


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## logray

Here in Sacramento I have the same problem with my 811 receiver. I do not have a 921. So this problem is not receiver specific.

1.) Electronic guide data for KVIE PBS channel 6 and subchannels is incorrect and/or missing.

2.) Electronic guide data for KOVR CBS channel 13 is listed only for the subchannel.

-------------------------------

*denotes guide data missing from EPG. guide displays "Local Digital" for all timeslots for this channel.

#denotes guide data listed on wrong channel.

6am to 6pm
*06-01: KVIE Channel 6 (same as dish channel 8636)
#06-02: KVIE Cable Channel 7 (EPG displays guide data for KVIE Channel 6)
*06-03: PBS Kids
*06-04: PBS You (same as dish channel 9402)

6pm to 6am
*06-01: PBS National High Def
#06-02: KVIE Cable Channel 7 (EPG displays guide data for KVIE Channel 6 which doesn't exist from 6pm to 6am)
06-03: Off Air (channel removed)
06-04: Off Air (channel removed)

*13-01: CBS KOVR Channel 13 (High Def) [same as dish channel 8631]
13-02: CBS KOVR Channel 13 (Standard Def mirror of 13-01) [same as dish channel 8631]

Note that on the 811, 6.1 and 6.2 get mapped to 53.1 (UHF) and 53.2 when watching them from 6pm to 6am. This problem exists with Sony, Echostar, and some other receivers.

Also note that I subscribe to all Sacramento LiL channels from Dish. All of these channels are carried by Dish, except for PBS Kids and PBS HD (national feed).


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## Gut

2.19 did nothing to fix my guide data either!


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## William_K_F

2.19 I do not subscribe to locals. I had AT180, distant networks, and distant superstations. I dropped these, and surprise, my OTA guide data went away. Adding dish locals, brings back the OTA guide data, even though I didn't need that before.


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## Colorado

I sub to locals

No guide data for 006-01 WATE (had it with 211)
No guide data for 007-01 WMAK (Had it with 211)
No guide date for 043-01 WTNZ (Had it with 211)

I live in Knoxville, TN!


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## Allen Noland

Update. As of Wednesday August 7, 2005. Guide data has returned to KOTV DT 006-01 in Tulsa, Oklahoma.


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## zqwjohn

I am in San Diego. I dont have OTA guide data on 921, but they are in my 810.


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## jeffg369

Just subscibed to locals. I am in the Lafayette IN DMA the following OTA guide data is not available on my 921
CBS Lafayette IN 18.1 WLFI
PBS Indianapolis IN 20.1 WFYI 

PBS 20.2 is available and so is NBC 13.1 and ABC 6.1


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