# dropped OTA signals



## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

Before I take the HD plunge, I spoke to a friend about his experience. HD signals provided by DISH are great, but the local network signals he gets over the add-on antenna (it is simply a wire that goes around the top of the dish) are usually a hit or miss thing. The signal varies from above 90% up down to 0% and back, usually fairly rapidly. He has called the local installer and also DISH tech support, but no one knows or is willing to help. Is the OTA antenna (which was initially provided by a local installer from DISH) bad or of poor quality or is there another problem? My friend worked for a local television network for years and is a real stickler for this type of thing. He figures his only recourse is to install a better and separate OTA antenna but that would mean a separate switch, and he does not want to fool around with a separate switch every time he wants to watch OTA television.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

It really all depends on where your local station towers are compared to where you live. Those antennas on the dish may not be pointed in the right direction, and they must point wherever the dish is supposed to point (at the sats). Your best option is to get a separate OTA antenna for your needs. Check out www.antennaweb.org or www.tvfool.com for more information.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

His problem is his "antenna". He DOES need something better than what he has.

Why do you (or him) think that he needs a separate switch? He can installed a better antenna and connect it in place of where the antenna now is connected. The installer likely used a diplexer (to feed the satellite and antenna signal on one wire) and there is one at satellite receiver too that splits the signal back out and feeds it to the ATSC tuner on the HD satellite receiver.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

Taco Lover said:


> It really all depends on where your local station towers are compared to where you live. Those antennas on the dish may not be pointed in the right direction, and they must point wherever the dish is supposed to point (at the sats). Your best option is to get a separate OTA antenna for your needs. Check out www.antennaweb.org or www.tvfool.com for more information.


If he gets a separate OTA antenna, wil he also have to get a switch to go between the antenna and the dish? As I said, he likes the convenience the way things are not and doesn't want to have a separate manual switch every time he wants to go between channels.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

hounddog said:


> If he gets a separate OTA antenna, wil he also have to get a switch to go between the antenna and the dish? As I said, he likes the convenience the way things are not and doesn't want to have a separate manual switch every time he wants to go between channels.


The diplexor is already there as Bill R stated. The antennas that clip on the back of an antenna are P.O.S. You will need to look at antenna web to find out what is needed to replace it. It is evident that the installer threw the stuff up got the signal and likes those ant cause are fast and cheap install. They work fair for analog where the multi-path signals didn't kill the channel just caused ghosting. Ghosting is multi-path and will kill most digital tuners.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> The diplexor is already there as Bill R stated. The antennas that clip on the back of an antenna are P.O.S. You will need to look at antenna web to find out what is needed to replace it. It is evident that the installer threw the stuff up got the signal and likes those ant cause are fast and cheap install. They work fair for analog where the multi-path signals didn't kill the channel just caused ghosting. Ghosting is multi-path and will kill most digital tuners.


Maybe his problem is ghosting, although no one at DISH or the local installer could figure out the problem. I went to antennaweb.com and it looks like he will need either a Large Multi-directional antenna or a Medium Directional Antenna with pre-amp (I assume the larger the better). Should he use a pre-amp no matter what size antenna he gets and could recommend a model number? Also, can it hook it up to the current hardware (the diplexor)? Thank you.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

He will not need another switch. He will need a diplexer. The antenna you describe already has a diplexer built into it and then a diplexer at the receiver to separate the signals. The antenna he is using is not designed for channels 3 - 13 and very rarely works well on those channels. The UHF channels depend on the distance and direction of the signal.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

BNUMM said:


> He will not need another switch. He will need a diplexer. The antenna you describe already has a diplexer built into it and then a diplexer at the receiver to separate the signals. The antenna he is using is not designed for channels 3 - 13 and very rarely works well on those channels. The UHF channels depend on the distance and direction of the signal.


Would the Winegard GS2200 Sensar III Amplified VHF/UHF Antenna System (GS-2200) be a good choice?


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## Ressurrector (Jan 1, 2008)

man I seen this tonight 

I plugged in some rabbit ears to my 722 and got one local DTV channel

it goes from a 75 percent signal to zero like every dozen seconds like clockwork


its like being on a rockin boat LOL its totally not watchable if it dies every few seconds (predictably) Why so rythmic in dropouts I wonder?? They got a rotating rader dish transmitting the signal? I am like really WTF!!! lol

thank god its not HD just SDTV crap LOL 

you must have to have a heck of a signal for OTA to work good


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

hounddog said:


> Would the Winegard GS2200 Sensar III Amplified VHF/UHF Antenna System (GS-2200) be a good choice?


We really couldn't say since you live in a pretty large state. Have no idea where you are other than LA.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Ressurrector said:


> man I seen this tonight
> 
> I plugged in some rabbit ears to my 722 and got one local DTV channel
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a very consistent multi-path bounce. Rabbit ears only work well where there is no obstructions to the tower.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

hounddog said:


> Would the Winegard GS2200 Sensar III Amplified VHF/UHF Antenna System (GS-2200) be a good choice?


It would be better than what he has.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Cute antennas like the the Winegard Sensor work at close range if you are lucky.

Traditional antennas are proven technology that nearly always outperform "cute" and are nearly always cheaper.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> Cute antennas like the the Winegard Sensor work at close range if you are lucky.
> 
> Traditional antennas are proven technology that nearly always outperform "cute" and are nearly always cheaper.


I am so new to this that I didn't realize the Winegard Sensor was not the optimum one. Could you please suggest one that would work and also suggest a good online source? Thank you.


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## Schizm (Jul 31, 2007)

I've had good luck with the Channel Master 4228 and a Channel Master 7778 preamp. The Fox affiliate I wanted to pickup is about 23 miles away and I get it at 100% in the evenings and ~88-90 during the days.

Both the antenna and preamp I bought from Summit Source (not sure if that was the best site though).


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The 4228 is one of the best UHF antennas and it has acceptable reception abilities for VHF high (channels 7-13).

In order to give you a more informed opinion we need your zip code which we will plug into www.antennaweb.org and www.tvfool.com to see which channels you need to receive.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> The 4228 is one of the best UHF antennas and it has acceptable reception abilities for VHF high (channels 7-13).
> 
> In order to give you a more informed opinion we need your zip code which we will plug into www.antennaweb.org and www.tvfool.com to see which channels you need to receive.


Zipcode is 71201 which, according to antennaweb.org gives me 6 channels in the Monroe area and 15 more distant ones. In order to get all of them, I would need a large directional antenna with a preamp.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

Ressurrector said:


> man I seen this tonight
> 
> I plugged in some rabbit ears to my 722 and got one local DTV channel
> 
> ...


antennaweb.org is a great resource.

All of our broadcast antennas/antennae  in Austin are located on an 'antenna farm' just west of downtown, high atop a hill.... so they're all the same distance and direction from my antenna. The signal variation is amazing. In some cases, if I block the antenna, the signal strength goes UP. Increase the gain on the pre-amp... signal drops. LOL

It took a while to tweak my antenna. Once I did, though... no problems.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

A hill in Austin???
Didn't know Austin had any hill higher than a 5story building.


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

Any antenna will work for HD. As long as it picks up UHF/VHF (most are UHF) you should be ok.



I have a pretty good sized antenna for my OTA's, and they usually run around 100for signal strength. But NBC always hovers in the low 70's and ALWAYS drops out of nowhere every 2 or 3 seconds. It's very frustrating and is unwatchable. I have the antenna pointed in the right direction and am only 13 miles away. So I share the thread starter's frustration with dropped signals.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> A hill in Austin???
> Didn't know Austin had any hill higher than a 5story building.


You'd be amazed.

Austin is located along a pre-historic fault line. To the east of lies coastal plain/savannah... to the west, beautiful, rolling hills... the Texas Hill Country. The first time I came here I expected flat, dry, brush-land ala Dallas... it's actually an oasis.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Ressurrector said:


> man I seen this tonight
> 
> I plugged in some rabbit ears to my 722 and got one local DTV channel
> 
> ...


Try the UHF loop instead, the ears are for VHF. I can get most of my locals using the RF remote antenna.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

motts said:


> Any antenna will work for HD. As long as it picks up UHF/VHF (most are UHF) you should be ok.
> 
> I have a pretty good sized antenna for my OTA's, and they usually run around 100for signal strength. But NBC always hovers in the low 70's and ALWAYS drops out of nowhere every 2 or 3 seconds. It's very frustrating and is unwatchable. I have the antenna pointed in the right direction and am only 13 miles away. So I share the thread starter's frustration with dropped signals.


Have you figured out why you have the dropped signals? Would larger antenna help? Thirteen miles is not that far away.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

hounddog said:


> Have you figured out why you have the dropped signals? Would larger antenna help? Thirteen miles is not that far away.


It's case by case. No one solution works for everyone. Bigger is not always better. Pre-amp is not always better. It's all about YOUR use-case....

Answer me these... :

**How far are you from your primary (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS) transmitters?

**Do you want an indoor or outdoor antenna?

**Are the transmitters for all stations all in one general direction, or are they spread about around your location?

**Are you in a subdivision with single story homes?... or an apartment building?... and, if so, what floor?

**And are there taller structures between you and the transmitters?


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

I spoke to a very friendly and knowlegeable man at solidsignal.com and have determined, with his help, that I will not only need a very large antenna but also a rotator, as the CBS, ABC, and FOX stations are directly south of me and the NBC station is directly north of me. He also told me that the little wire antenna presently attached to the satellite dish is about $200 and worthless. He also told me that I should not place the OTA antenna anywhere close to the dish. I don't know if my father-in-law will want to rotate the antenna from south to north everytime he wants to watch NBC, but from what solidsignal.com tells me, if he wants a good signal that is the only way to go. And thanks again for all of the great advice.


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## jmeetze (Oct 8, 2007)

You could try an omnidirectional antenna. I don't know why everyone else is having issues with OTA. I have an indoor OTA antenna that isn't amplified and I can pick up sations 20-40 miles away with a 70 - 85% signal. The only time my signal drops off is when the signal strength drops below 65 percent.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hounddog said:


> I spoke to a very friendly and knowlegeable man at solidsignal.com and have determined, with his help, that I will not only need a very large antenna but also a rotator, as the CBS, ABC, and FOX stations are directly south of me and the NBC station is directly north of me. He also told me that the little wire antenna presently attached to the satellite dish is about $200 and worthless. He also told me that I should not place the OTA antenna anywhere close to the dish. I don't know if my father-in-law will want to rotate the antenna from south to north everytime he wants to watch NBC, but from what solidsignal.com tells me, if he wants a good signal that is the only way to go. And thanks again for all of the great advice.


A nice Bowtie Omni-directional style Antenna will work.
I am in the same boat, kind of, as I have San Diego channels SE, and SSE and LA channels to the NW and NNW. Only Station I have any problems with is the Fox channel that is over the border in Mexico. How far away does antennaweb.org say you are away from the 2 different antenna hills? Not discounting the info from soldidsignal, he is correct about the wire on the dish, but as for the 2 styles of antenna's UHF(rececption) and the Sat dish, the only thing you need to make sure of is that the HD Antenna is not, right in the line of site Sat Dish, no matter who you go with.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

GrumpyBear said:


> A nice Bowtie Omni-directional style Antenna will work.
> I am in the same boat, kind of, as I have San Diego channels SE, and SSE and LA channels to the NW and NNW. Only Station I have any problems with is the Fox channel that is over the border in Mexico. How far away does antennaweb.org say you are away from the 2 different antenna hills? Not discounting the info from soldidsignal, he is correct about the wire on the dish, but as for the 2 styles of antenna's UHF(rececption) and the Sat dish, the only thing you need to make sure of is that the HD Antenna is not, right in the line of site Sat Dish, no matter who you go with.


Maybe that is one of the problems--the OTA antenna is attached to the dish. I will suggest an omnidirectional bowtie antenna. None of the towers is more than 40 miles away, so maybe this will work. Should I use the diplexer that he currently has or should I run a new cable? The man at solidsignal.com told me that with a diplexer one loses about half of the signal compared to running a separate wire. If the smaller bowtie antenna doesn't work, looks like I will be looking into the new Winegard 7600 series antennas, which at 6 feet long for one of the models isn't exactly small.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

hounddog said:


> Maybe that is one of the problems--the OTA antenna is attached to the dish. I will suggest an omnidirectional bowtie antenna. None of the towers is more than 40 miles away, so maybe this will work. Should I use the diplexer that he currently has or should I run a new cable? The man at solidsignal.com told me that with a diplexer one loses about half of the signal compared to running a separate wire. If the smaller bowtie antenna doesn't work, looks like I will be looking into the new Winegard 7600 series antennas, which at 6 feet long for one of the models isn't exactly small.


I looked on Winegard site & I couldn't find a 7600 series antenna. Where did you get the info I would like to see what you are talking about. BTW diplexors don't really reduce signal anywhere near as much as rhe SS guy said. It has to do with the fact that it is combining to different frequency signals then splitting them back out. I even looked on SS site and all I could find w/ designation of 7600 was an FM trap from Winegard.


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## hounddog (Sep 3, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> I looked on Winegard site & I couldn't find a 7600 series antenna. Where did you get the info I would like to see what you are talking about. BTW diplexors don't really reduce signal anywhere near as much as rhe SS guy said. It has to do with the fact that it is combining to different frequency signals then splitting them back out. I even looked on SS site and all I could find w/ designation of 7600 was an FM trap from Winegard.


He said that they had actually gotten in some of the 7600 series models and that it would only be a matter of a few days until they would be able to sell them. I couldn't find them on Winegard's site either, but the man at solidsignal.com assured me that they were very good and would make good OTA antennas. Before I get one, however, that requires a rotator, I will try an omnidirectional antenna first.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

hounddog said:


> He said that they had actually gotten in some of the 7600 series models and that it would only be a matter of a few days until they would be able to sell them. I couldn't find them on Winegard's site either, but the man at solidsignal.com assured me that they were very good and would make good OTA antennas. Before I get one, however, that requires a rotator, I will try an omnidirectional antenna first.


It seems to me your fella at SS may be trying to use your wallet to line his.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Distance wise, you are about the same, less than 55 miles.
I use the DB4 from Antennas Direct, here are the Dimensions 29" H x 19" W x 4" Deep. Works great, for some of the LA channels I should have upgraded to a DB8, but live and learn. http://www.antennasdirect.com/MR_tv_antennas.html
Use the Diplexor so you can bring in one cable into the room its nice.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

The DB8 might just do the trick. It seems to be by looking at it an Array that will pickup signals in both directions.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> The DB8 might just do the trick. It seems to be by looking at it an Array that will pickup signals in both directions.


If I was to do it over I would have bought the DB8, the DB4 works, but having just that much more array, wouldn't hurt. Its not that much bigger, I went with the DB4 for size, more than price, and after getting it and setting it up, its smaller than I thought.


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