# The "Missing HD" Discussion Thread (was "NO HD" Gripe)



## rey_1178

i woke up today hoping that maybe at least 1 channel was added to our hd lineup but nothing. it has been a disappointing year for e* hd.


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## razorbackfan

I too thought we would have presents from Charlie. Bah Humbug.


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## RTE

I been with them for about 8 years. I have had the "everything" package for about 4 years. It is begining to get to me - the lack of more HD and the "off shore" support. Things must change and change fast!


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## Mike D-CO5

Wait till after CES and I am sure we will see more hd. That is only two weeks or less.


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## texaswolf

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Wait till after CES and I am sure we will see more hd. That is only two weeks or less.


I agree with everyone else here....but i will be "hoping" for something out of CES...since it is the "big announcement" event. I just hope we are not disappointed like the last CC.

I'm curious to see what D* has to say also...will they boast another big play? It will be interesting to see what happens if they do, and we get the same old silent treatment from E*. I will raise my hopes yet again...since there wont be many more announcement events to look forward to after this.


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## jal

Switch to Directv! You will have all the HD channels tomorrow.


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## rey_1178

let me tell my fellow e customers a recent story. i decided to experiment with d* 2 months ago. got their latest hd dvr and all their new hd programing with the new 5 lnb dish etc,etc. just 1 hour of having this service i ran to cancel the whole thing. this experiment cost $400.00 but it answered many of my questions. when i saw how long it takes to switch from one channel to another it drove me crazy. the hd picture had lots of pixels compared to the smooth hd of e* plus the dvr was a pain to program and lacked alot of features compared to the vip622. so i stayed with e*. even though i'm very upset with e* for not being in tune more with their customers on HD i really don't see any place that is better to go to:nono2: 

But if they don't fix this soon and others continue to improve their hardware and programming well who knows. In the mean time i suggest we stay put and make it loud and clear to charlie what we want over and over again:eek2:


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## Stewart Vernon

How has it been a "disappointing year" for Dish?

Until a couple of months ago, Dish was by far the HD leader and had added a bunch of channels this year.

It was not until DirecTV launched their new satellite and added channels after September that this even became a discussion.

So I think it is a little melodramatic to say it has been a disappointing year for Dish. With that sentiment, it wouldn't matter what Dish does, if it wasn't just last week people would still be "disappointed".


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## HobbyTalk

I had done some consideration of switching the D*. Mainly because I could get some locals in HD that I can't OTA unless I spend a lot of bucks on a large antenna.

I went over to the D* forums to read up on what's happening over there. After a few days of reading I dropped that consideration. They have pretty much the same CR complaints and a LOT more complaints on the receivers (bugs and lack of features).

I would strongly suggest anyone thinking of changing that you spend a few days reading the D* forums.


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## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> How has it been a "disappointing year" for Dish?
> 
> Until a couple of months ago, Dish was by far the HD leader and had added a bunch of channels this year.
> 
> It was not until DirecTV launched their new satellite and added channels after September that this even became a discussion.
> 
> So I think it is a little melodramatic to say it has been a disappointing year for Dish. With that sentiment, it wouldn't matter what Dish does, if it wasn't just last week people would still be "disappointed".


agreed..... it has not been a "disappointing year" at all, considering what they have done all year....now to say that it has been a "disappointing answer to the D* roll out so far" could be said...but not the whole year.


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## James Long

It only seems disappointing to those who have appointed themselves with expectations greater that DISH has announced.

Some people have set themselves up for the fall. E* never said they would add every channel D* added (regardless of content or quality). Yet the most ticked seem to have somehow placed that expectation on E*.

We will have to wait until the 4Q/2007 SEC filings are in or (less likely) for CES to find out _if_ E* is disappointed. Every company wants to do better (even the most successful). But we don't speak for E* ... to say that E* had a disappointing year (or not) is speaking for a company that has not asked any of us to speak for them. I expect that such statements will not express disappointment but hope for the future.


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## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> agreed..... it has not been a "disappointing year" at all, considering what they have done all year....now to say that it has been a "disappointing answer to the D* roll out so far" could be said...but not the whole year.


That is a fair point. If someone is disappointed that DirecTV has added a channel and Dish has not... that is fair to be disappointed about. I'm not in that camp yet, but I can understand some folks who are as long as they don't get completely out of hand.

I still remember before DirecTV added anything new this year, and people were still asking why nothing new from Dish. I've also seen some DirecTV customers even with all their new channels asking why not more... and those are the folks that will probably never be happy no matter what happens.


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## Jerry 42

I have had E* since 1994. During that time I heard/bought "the 6000u will get all future Dish HD" and "no compelling HD channels", etc, etc, etc. I have stayed with E* when my DNS were lost - I was grandfathered but it did not matter. I really like the 622 which was a big improvement over the 942 and other E* equipment. 

That said, I feel Charlie, who at one time was a visionary in the satellite field, has fallen down in the HD area. Perhaps he was guarding his profits or looking for a buy-out or something else. Charlie IMHO has always been lacking in giving info to his customers. I consider C Chats a sales not info program. My annual renewal is in the spring and for the first time I will look at other options if we E* customers do not get some info on E* plans.


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## rey_1178

HDMe said:


> That is a fair point. If someone is disappointed that DirecTV has added a channel and Dish has not... that is fair to be disappointed about. I'm not in that camp yet, but I can understand some folks who are as long as they don't get completely out of hand.
> 
> I still remember before DirecTV added anything new this year, and people were still asking why nothing new from Dish. I've also seen some DirecTV customers even with all their new channels asking why not more... and those are the folks that will probably never be happy no matter what happens.


that is true. i meant that compared to what directv has done it's disappointing and it's true that before d's latest additions i was truly happy for ten years with E*. if they just put a few of these latest hd channels that would make me happy. truly for the first time in ten years i'm disappointed which i guess is not bad at all. for directv customers to want more when they just got a bunch tells me that these are people you can't satisfy.


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## rey_1178

James Long said:


> It only seems disappointing to those who have appointed themselves with expectations greater that DISH has announced.
> 
> Some people have set themselves up for the fall. E* never said they would add every channel D* added (regardless of content or quality). Yet the most ticked seem to have somehow placed that expectation on E*.
> 
> We will have to wait until the 4Q/2007 SEC filings are in or (less likely) for CES to find out _if_ E* is disappointed. Every company wants to do better (even the most successful). But we don't speak for E* ... to say that E* had a disappointing year (or not) is speaking for a company that has not asked any of us to speak for them. I expect that such statements will not express disappointment but hope for the future.


You make a great point James. Expecting something and following rumors just makes it more difficult when it doesn't happened.


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## texaswolf

> Some people have set themselves up for the fall. E* never said they would add every channel D* added (regardless of content or quality). Yet the most ticked seem to have somehow placed that expectation on E*.


Actually...to be honest...E* has stated and continues to state that they will add HD channels when they become available. Now if you ask them about that claim...they will tell you they mean when they become available to E* (no kidding). Thing is...those channels are available to E*...they just need to get the space and deal signed. So i do think it is fair to set some kind of expectations to your provider...when they tell their subs that.


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## crazypat

Whatever happened with the USA & SCI-FI uplinks? I was hoping to see them lit up for X-mas.


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## phrelin

Things aren't going to get much better until those additional satellites are up there. With that said, I've been with E* a long, long time. But Comcast is upgrading its system out here in the wilderness and _*telling us *_what they're doing, making them a possible option when I wouldn't have considered such a move ever. I want to know if USA and SciFi HD are coming up on Dish Network on New Year's day. If not, when? And if I don't pay E* for HD and don't tell them when, will they just sit in dismay like I am? They are just plain rude!


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## jmh139

I'll give my opinion as a long time Directv sub. I had Dish years ago, and have no experience with the new receivers at all. I have 2 HR20's, and one H20, as well as two Directv SD Tivo's (I SOOO Love my Tivo's).

My upgrade to HD was one of the worst experiences I have ever had. I ended up getting several hundred dollars in credits due to missed appointments, screwed up service, etc. Directv's Customer service is a nightmare, as far as I can tell, they cannot do anything right. The ONLY way to get service is to go to the upper tier by saying "cancel service" at the voice prompt. I hate to do this, but otherwise you get no help. I did not let anything go. I have always installed my own equipment, but there is no option to do this with the new 5LNB dish. 

As for the receiver, it is no Tivo, but it is OK. I had a Time Warner DVR (with the new Navigator software) before this, that basically did not do it's job, it would miss recordings. So the HR20 is a big improvement over that  There are some features that the HR20 has that the Tivos did not, and some the Tivo has that the HR20 does not. It is kinda a wash for me, it is fine and does it's job. I cannot compare it to the Dish DVR's. The New VOD features are good, I DL'ed a HD movie a few days ago, and it looks perfect. 

Now for the good news. The new MPEG4 channels are amazing. There is no pixelization that is not coming from the providers in my opinion. I have a 55" Sony rear projection LCD. I think the signal is as good as the OTA signal I get, and better than the Time Warner signal. The NFL network is amazing, the best I have ever seen on for Thursday night football. SciFi is great, Atlantis in HD. I am really enjoying the new channels. I can see a difference watching the MPEG2 channels that have not moved to MPEG4 yet, but they are OK. I am hoping they move them to the new Sats soon.

I hope this helps someone. I am not bashing Dish in any way, I just wanted to give my opinion...


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## Rebollos

Since the offer for existing customers for the 622 or 722 DD DVR will last now until January 31, I will wait until the CES and If I don't see any information from E*, I will switch to Comcast, D* etc, or whatever is available....

I understand E* needs more satellites in space etc, but I need to know, E* has to inform their customers about anything that is going on. I think is ridiculous that we have to find out about offers like Cinemax, the 622 being free now after rebates etc.... through chats and forums. I am only asking to be informed.....

[political comment]

Happy Holidays


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## pvcleave

I just canceled my Dish service, and not to go to Direct. I went to FIOS. They had the channels I wanted. While it mainly consisted of locals (can't get them with an antenna), it was what I wanted. I am sick of hearing how great dish's HD has been. If I do not want to watch them who cares how many there are. Also even if SciFi only has a little HD, I still want it. I love the picture on FIOS, the SD is much more watchable then Dish.

I expect Dish to get SciFi before FIOS, but I am just too pissed at Dish to care. I do not like the fact that I have to pay for a DVR and then be required to pay a lease fee on top of the DVR fee and HD content fee. Then they want to charge me $39 to enable the external HD. I do not see how dish can justify these fees. I will never be a customer of dish again.
on FIOS, the SD is much more watchable then Dish.


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## g182237

If you think it's bad for you guys who live on the CONUS, try living in Hawaii where E* gives us only 8 HD channels along with HDPPV and Premiums. They need to launch E11 soon.


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## texaswolf

jmh139 said:


> I'll give my opinion as a long time Directv sub. I had Dish years ago, and have no experience with the new receivers at all. I have 2 HR20's, and one H20, as well as two Directv SD Tivo's (I SOOO Love my Tivo's).
> 
> My upgrade to HD was one of the worst experiences I have ever had. I ended up getting several hundred dollars in credits due to missed appointments, screwed up service, etc. Directv's Customer service is a nightmare, as far as I can tell, they cannot do anything right. The ONLY way to get service is to go to the upper tier by saying "cancel service" at the voice prompt. I hate to do this, but otherwise you get no help. I did not let anything go. I have always installed my own equipment, but there is no option to do this with the new 5LNB dish.
> 
> As for the receiver, it is no Tivo, but it is OK. I had a Time Warner DVR (with the new Navigator software) before this, that basically did not do it's job, it would miss recordings. So the HR20 is a big improvement over that  There are some features that the HR20 has that the Tivos did not, and some the Tivo has that the HR20 does not. It is kinda a wash for me, it is fine and does it's job. I cannot compare it to the Dish DVR's. The New VOD features are good, I DL'ed a HD movie a few days ago, and it looks perfect.
> 
> Now for the good news. The new MPEG4 channels are amazing. There is no pixelization that is not coming from the providers in my opinion. I have a 55" Sony rear projection LCD. I think the signal is as good as the OTA signal I get, and better than the Time Warner signal. The NFL network is amazing, the best I have ever seen on for Thursday night football. SciFi is great, Atlantis in HD. I am really enjoying the new channels. I can see a difference watching the MPEG2 channels that have not moved to MPEG4 yet, but they are OK. I am hoping they move them to the new Sats soon.
> 
> I hope this helps someone. I am not bashing Dish in any way, I just wanted to give my opinion...


thanks for the info dude.

[quoted political]

crazeypat...I like your avatar


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## He Save Dave

Yeah, I've been trying to stay with Dish but its been a difficult decision for me. I've finally made up my mind and will be switching to DTV soon.


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## Jim5506

I have no trouble staying with Dish.

So what if they are not the first to jump on the SD upconvert to HD wagon.

I would enjoy having more HD channels, but realistically I don't have time to watch everything broadcast in HD now.

Especially now that I added Cinemax HD, I might have to give up and go for the external HD to save a collection of movies I have started to build (unless we figure out how to recode MPEG4).


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## texaswolf

Jim5506 said:


> I have no trouble staying with Dish.
> 
> So what if they are not the first to jump on the SD upconvert to HD wagon.
> 
> I would enjoy having more HD channels, but realistically I don't have time to watch everything broadcast in HD now.
> 
> Especially now that I added Cinemax HD, I might have to give up and go for the external HD to save a collection of movies I have started to build (unless we figure out how to recode MPEG4).


I think it's more of an issue of people wanting certain channels that are being shown in in HD on other providers....and not an issue of being first to launch new channels


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## James Long

It would be nice if those channels "being shown in HD" were not mostly upconverts.

People HERE have the benefit of reading reports from D* customers in the forums that focus on D* and understanding that a "HD" channel doesn't mean "HD" content. If people are upset about the "missing" channels they need to go check out what they are missing. If it is something they want to watch it could make a difference.


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## whatchel1

BTW CES is 1-7 thru 10.


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> It would be nice if those channels "being shown in HD" were not mostly upconverts.
> 
> People HERE have the benefit of reading reports from D* customers in the forums that focus on D* and understanding that a "HD" channel doesn't mean "HD" content. If people are upset about the "missing" channels they need to go check out what they are missing. If it is something they want to watch it could make a difference.


most of the questions on HD quality i have seen on the D* side here and other boards, is pretty much the same...certain prime time shows that bring in the most viewers for that channel are in HD....(i.e. Scifi HD...Atlantis and BSG are HD...as are some other shows) some of the other stuff on the channel may not be...but then again we get that on some of our channels here too. also a lot of people i have seen would rather have the "upconverted" (not stretched) signal, for now, instead of the crappy SD.

So i guess each person has to ask themselves...would you rather have some of your favorite shows on a channel in HD and the rest "upconverted" (for now), or would you rather have none of the shows on that channel in HD, and all of it in good ol' SD?

As i have said before.... FX has 3 shows i like to watch...2 are in HD, one is not shot in HD...and as far as i know the rest of the time the channel could be "upconverted", do i care...no...because the shows I (and according to ratings of the channel) most other people watch that channel for...are in HD


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## texaswolf

whatchel1 said:


> BTW CES is 1-7 thru 10.


anybody here going?


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## davethestalker

HDMe said:


> How has it been a "disappointing year" for Dish?
> 
> Until a couple of months ago, Dish was by far the HD leader and had added a bunch of channels this year.
> 
> It was not until DirecTV launched their new satellite and added channels after September that this even became a discussion.
> 
> So I think it is a little melodramatic to say it has been a disappointing year for Dish. With that sentiment, it wouldn't matter what Dish does, if it wasn't just last week people would still be "disappointed".


Well......how many new HD channels (not counting NBA, Center Ice, Big Ten, RSNs, nor HD PPV channels) did Dish add during 2007? How many for 2006? 2005? 2004? 2003? My point is _when_ did Dish become the HD "leader" (not counting Voom, because Dish punted Voom out of independent existence). When was the last time Dish really added "*new*" channels that were just launched in their HD form?

Has Charlie dimply reached a point where his hands are tied and he can't do anything to add the newly launched "national common" channels?

How frickin' hard would it be to man up and give us a "status report" when they send that bill every friggin' month. Does he not appreciate his subscribers?


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## msmith198025

HobbyTalk said:


> I had done some consideration of switching the D*. Mainly because I could get some locals in HD that I can't OTA unless I spend a lot of bucks on a large antenna.
> 
> I went over to the D* forums to read up on what's happening over there. After a few days of reading I dropped that consideration. They have pretty much the same CR complaints and a LOT more complaints on the receivers (bugs and lack of features).
> 
> I would strongly suggest anyone thinking of changing that you spend a few days reading the D* forums.


you realize that you will read the same things here right? There WERE some bugs in the early days of the HR-20 run, however nearly all of those have been worked out and are a non issue these days. The few that do post now are in the minority, as they are here


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## James Long

davethestalker said:


> When was the last time Dish really added "*new*" channels that were just launched in their HD form?


As answered 10 days ago (here) ...


Mike D-CO5 said:


> Well would the cost of $4.98 , if it is true, go to the hd channel additions this year, or to an increase in premium channel packs in AEP ? And can anyone remind us what hd channels that were added this year?


With the assistance of the ekb ...

9419 A&E HD 1/30/07
9458 Cinemax HD 5/4/07
9468 VS/Golf HD 8/15/07
9469 MHD 8/15/07
9487 Discovery HD 8/15/07
9488 TLC HD 8/15/07
9489 Animal Planet HD 8/15/07
9490 Science Channel HD 8/15/07
9491 History HD 9/4/07
9500+ Big Ten Network HD and alts 9/12/07
9499 TBS HD 10/5/07
403 NHL Network HD 10/17/07
9508/9509 NBA TV HD 10/24/07​When did Dish become the HD leader? That is a matter of opinion. Some will say that E* never led, even when they had more channels than anyone else (D* led from behind ). Voom had a decent lineup with 21 unique HD channels plus East and West HD movie channel feeds but could they really be considered leaders with the near negligible subscriber count?

Two years ago E* hit the pause button on HD until CES 2006. They _intentionally_ did not add new HD, holding the channels until the February 2006 release of the ViP-622 DVR and the new DishHD packages.

If you are going to willy-nilly toss out included channels you don't want let me willy-nilly toss out the 'missing' channels that you may want. Someone wants those existing channels. What is your favorite channel? Should I remove it to add something I want that you may not like?


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## rey_1178

as always james thanks


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## davethestalker

Jame, all I'm saying is, as the song goes, "What have you done for me lately?".

No, I don't want any channels taken away, that would be insane. But, it's stupid to wait, and delay, and wait some more, ignore your customer base and then a year or two later add the same 5 - 10 channels that your competitor(s) added the day they became available. Sure, it took D* a week shy of forever to add a good crop of current HD channels. But, frankly, I could give a rat's behind, I'm not a D* customer (I almost was).

I am honestly pretty surprised that it has taken this long for networks to add an HD version of their channels. It's been, what almost 10 years now? HD displays have been "affordable", in the eyes of some, for a while now.

I'm just REALLY REALLY MAD at Dish right now. The channels are there, and they have not added them yet? WTF is wrong with these people? Is he too frickin busy counting his money or something.

All we can do is wait, and wait.


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## James Long

davethestalker said:


> But, it's stupid to wait, and delay, and wait some more, ignore your customer base and then a year or two later add the same 5 - 10 channels that your competitor(s) added the day they became available.


That has not happened yet. At worst, we've been waiting three months (so far) ... not a year or two. And some of those 'HD channels' were added by D* _before_ they came available ... and still show very little if any HD.

Dave, I understand you are angry. But your claim is false. We have not waited a year or two to get the HD channels D* added or any other competitor. Do you expect that we will? Do you HONESTLY believe that those channels won't be up until late 2008 or late 2009? You are borrowing problems from a future that has not occurred and is unlikely.



> I am honestly pretty surprised that it has taken this long for networks to add an HD version of their channels. It's been, what almost 10 years now? HD displays have been "affordable", in the eyes of some, for a while now.


That is another issue ... most new networks can't seem to support the HD feeds they have. There have been some early adopters that have done well ... but we are only just getting to the point where providers can create a feed that (a) contains the content of the SD channel that makes them what they are as a network and (b) has content in HD.


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## texaswolf

l8er said:


> There's really no point in not telling the truth about DIRECTV. The HD versions of the channels they added were indeed "available" or they couldn't have been added. No "HD" versions of channels were created by DIRECTV. (I know - I switched from Dish Network (as a 7 year subscriber) to DIRECTV in October and have watched as many of these new HD channels have been added). "Very little if any HD" is also a false statement. They are all showing at least "some" HD content, particularly in prime time.
> 
> When Scifi HD was added I dropped Dish and did a self install on a DIRECTV system that week to get Stargate Atlantis in high definition - and it was amazing to see the current season in HD for the first time.


Agreed, I have seen these "very little" HD channels, and as I have stated before...the prime time...most watched shows on the network is in HD....this is just a pot shot some "super supporters" are using to justify Chucks lack of info lately.

What I don't understand...is how they are going to hold that claim to D* channels that we DONT have...but not our own.....what channels does E* have, besides VOOM (and then you get into the whole content argument) that shows HD 24/7? I don't think any of them do yet...so that is a dead argument to try and bring up.

So since your someone who switched l8er...let me ask you...Do you really care if ALL of Scifi's content is HD...or just your favorite shows that you have mentioned? My guess is, your happy as can be as long as your shows are..as i would be....some people would rather have an "all or nothing" with HD...forget that.


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## James Long

I'm just basing it on the reports of D* users ... the thin line between your "some" and my "very little" seem to be in agreement on the same amount of content. Just a matter of opinion. 

I've also seen the threads in the D* forums where customers seemed surprised that content was in actual HD and not just a upconvert. We've had a couple threads like that here too (although the channels in question had actual HD on the day they were added). But that's an old argument.

BTW: I'm happy with the HD I have ... I'll take more, of course, but I've got what I paid for.


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## texaswolf

> the thin line between your "some" and my "very little" seem to be in agreement on the same amount of content. Just a matter of opinion.


Sure thats understandable...but just like you are happy with the HD you have...many of us would take the channels they have even with "very little" HD...since that little bit is more than likely the shows we are seeking in HD....


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## harsh

James Long said:


> But we don't speak for E* ... to say that E* had a disappointing year (or not) is speaking for a company that has not asked any of us to speak for them. I expect that such statements will not express disappointment but hope for the future.


If they don't pull something out in Q4, Q3 was disappointing enough to sour the whole of 2007.

Such is not to say that financial performance is directly related to subscriber satisfaction.


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## davethestalker

I noticed Speed had the DTM race on today in widescreen. Yes, on a 4:3 TV there were the typical bars on the sides, but then on top also. I know it's not "HD", but at least when they broadcast like this, we can "Zoom" the picture to fill the screen quasi "properly". I'm curious if those that have SpeedHD were able to view these DTM races in HD.

Forgive me if I should have posted this in a brand new thread. but I saw it as somewhat relevant here (on this board).


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## Austin316

I think that the general idea around here is not the amount of HD content but if ther is some then they want it. It is like alot of locals when they first moved over to digital there was not alot in HD the studios where just starting to film in HD so there was very little hd conent on the major networks and now it changed I dont think there is a serious show (not counting dorky game shows like duel) that is not filmed and displayed in HD.

So we want the scifi and the usa and the other networks who may only showing 5% HD but we know that eventually the other 95% will eventually be replaced by HD content. But we all have hdtv s and 5% hd content say on USA HD is still better then 0%


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## richiephx

How long has TBSHD been active? I don't recall seeing anything in HD since the playoffs, one episode of FrankTV, one comedy show and one Ellen show. Talk about lack of content. Even if there was HD content, I still wouldn't watch TBS.


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## Stewart Vernon

richiephx said:


> How long has TBSHD been active? I don't recall seeing anything in HD since the playoffs, one episode of FrankTV, one comedy show and one Ellen show. Talk about lack of content. Even if there was HD content, I still wouldn't watch TBS.


And people's willingness to accept TBS as an HD channel and companies' willingness to carry such a channel, are just further "proof" to those channels that there is no need to rush to provide actual HD.

If TBSHD can get away with having a channel for several months and virtually no HD on it... why would any of the other HD channels feel pressured to up their HD content?

It's fine to say "well now that we have the channel we will have it when they do show HD"... but it also works in the reverse, from their perspective... once they have us willing to accept non-HD on an HD channel, their foot is in the door and they don't have to up the content to get their channel on the air.

Imagine going to the grocery store and buying a 20 oz Coke that only had 5 oz of soda in it. Coke says that they are "working on" providing a full bottle in the future, but for now just 25% of the bottle will actually be Coke. If you agree to keep buying the Coke with the hope/promise of full bottles in the future, do you really believe there will be any urgency on Coke's part to actually fill that bottle quickly?

That's my perspective... that DirecTV may have done some good in forcing HD channel launches, BUT they may also have let the genie out of the bottle as far as public acceptance of channels that say they are HD but really do not provide significant HD content.

When the Voom channels, HDNet, HDNet Movies, provide 24/7 HD and are considered as "equals" or in some case inferior to channels like SciFiHD that maybe only provide a few hours per night OR TBSHD that only had baseball playoffs in HD... then you can bet the proportion of actual HD on those channels will not increase.

Look no further than TNTHD as an example of a channel that has not substantially increased its amount of HD for a couple of years now.


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## texaswolf

richiephx said:


> How long has TBSHD been active? I don't recall seeing anything in HD since the playoffs, one episode of FrankTV, one comedy show and one Ellen show. Talk about lack of content. Even if there was HD content, I still wouldn't watch TBS.


Dude....nobody wants to watch the crappy stretch TBS....and what we are talking about does not look like that.

l8er, i also agree with you on the "upconverted" shows that arn't in HD during the rest of the day..they do look MUCH better than SD


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> And people's willingness to accept TBS as an HD channel and companies' willingness to carry such a channel, are just further "proof" to those channels that there is no need to rush to provide actual HD.
> 
> If TBSHD can get away with having a channel for several months and virtually no HD on it... why would any of the other HD channels feel pressured to up their HD content?
> 
> It's fine to say "well now that we have the channel we will have it when they do show HD"... but it also works in the reverse, from their perspective... once they have us willing to accept non-HD on an HD channel, their foot is in the door and they don't have to up the content to get their channel on the air.
> 
> Imagine going to the grocery store and buying a 20 oz Coke that only had 5 oz of soda in it. Coke says that they are "working on" providing a full bottle in the future, but for now just 25% of the bottle will actually be Coke. If you agree to keep buying the Coke with the hope/promise of full bottles in the future, do you really believe there will be any urgency on Coke's part to actually fill that bottle quickly?
> 
> That's my perspective... that DirecTV may have done some good in forcing HD channel launches, BUT they may also have let the genie out of the bottle as far as public acceptance of channels that say they are HD but really do not provide significant HD content.
> 
> When the Voom channels, HDNet, HDNet Movies, provide 24/7 HD and are considered as "equals" or in some case inferior to channels like SciFiHD that maybe only provide a few hours per night OR TBSHD that only had baseball playoffs in HD... then you can bet the proportion of actual HD on those channels will not increase.
> 
> Look no further than TNTHD as an example of a channel that has not substantially increased its amount of HD for a couple of years now.


again..i haven't seen anyone on either side happy with tnt or tbs....so that is a poor example....now if the channels we were talking about even looked like tbs or tnt....you would here about it..but you haven't...so it's a comparison that does not make sense.


----------



## James Long

So what channels are you talking about? Speed HD with an announced HD date of February and some really surprised viewers who claim to be seeing HD now? The MTV/VH1/CMT upconvert channels (HD available on MHD for E* subs)? It seems that your argument is based on ONE channel (Sci-Fi). How many unique hours a week of HD are E* subs missing, in your estimation?


----------



## phrelin

The problem with HD service is it's not a "premium service" like HBO - with HBO its clear what you are getting. E* HD is like what we used to talk about in the software business as "vaporware." One can be tolerant because of the satellite problem and a real report that they are having technical problems. What's intolerable is no info - zero customer relations - for $20 a month.


----------



## davethestalker

HDME, I like the picture you painted with the 5% bottle of pop. I won't mention it by name, I despise the stuff. If it were "free", I would really enjoy those rare moments of pure bliss with a small percentage of my favorite soft drink (PEPSI RULES). But, if I had to pay just for that channel (a la carte), they (TBS) can shove it!


----------



## richiephx

texaswolf said:


> Dude....nobody wants to watch the crappy stretch TBS....and what we are talking about does not look like that.
> 
> l8er, i also agree with you on the "upconverted" shows that arn't in HD during the rest of the day..they do look MUCH better than SD


The subject of this thread is "still no new HD" and TBS is a perfect example that fits into this discussion. HDME understood the TBS comment. Think outside the box....dude.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> again..i haven't seen anyone on either side happy with tnt or tbs....so that is a poor example....now if the channels we were talking about even looked like tbs or tnt....you would here about it..but you haven't...so it's a comparison that does not make sense.


From what I've heard SciFiHD has no more HD than TNTHD does. Only difference is that SciFi doesn't stretch and distort non-HD like TNTHD does... but I've never heard that SciFi has more HD than TNTHD.

TBSHD is a poor example of an HD channel... but a good example of a channel that was negotiated for carriage and takes up valuable bandwidth, but provides no actual HD. The mere fact that it is still there and still has no HD, coupled with those canned emails people who have written the channel have gotten about how they have "surveys that prove people want it that way" tells me that the minority of us who don't want stretched stuff and who want more HD on the channels, we don't count for much apparently.

I just don't see any real-world pressure on any of these new channels (and that includes many new channels Dish added this year) to improve their quantity of HD and stop stretching things... so the arguing of wanting a channel just to get it there and be "ready" for HD in the future seems empty to me.

If there's a good HD channel showing a lot of HD, then I'd be on the soapbox too... but as it is, even though I watch some SciFi and USA shows... I'm really only missing a few hours a week of HD if Dish added those two, and right now with hiatus + writers' strike going on, I'm literally missing nothing of consequence on those channels.

If we had unlimited bandwidth, then I'd sing a different tune... but with the need to be picky, I really don't want another TBSHD or frankly even HistoryHD with the way they show HD one time then not the next for the same show.


----------



## jgurley

My son will be at the CES representing his electronics company (big, I mean really big TV, DVD, etc. player). We've talked a great deal about HD content and he plans on spending some time with each major cable and satellite provider. If he turns up any solid news he's going to call and I'll post it here.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> So what channels are you talking about? Speed HD with an announced HD date of February and some really surprised viewers who claim to be seeing HD now? The MTV/VH1/CMT upconvert channels (HD available on MHD for E* subs)? It seems that your argument is based on ONE channel (Sci-Fi). How many unique hours a week of HD are E* subs missing, in your estimation?


well, like i stated....the channels i am interested in "right now" SciFi and FX...those two i have seen the most...and the HD is great on the prime time shows (the ones i watch) and the rest of the "upconverted" (as you call it) content, looks much better than our SD. Others I have seen are the Starz channels: Starz Comedy HD, Starz West HD, Starz Kids and Family, Starz Edge HD...they all look as good as our HD premiums...i havent seen the Cinemax West, Showtime west, sho too, or The Movie Channel HD's yet, but i have been told they look just like the Starz...i will check them out next time i'm at my friends house. Now talk about having all those movie channels in HD here....i'd be buying more externals...thats for sure!


----------



## GrumpyBear

Watching, the History Channel, TNT, and TBS, and posts by some here, I am not overly Thrilled with the RUSH to add more HD Channels until they start upping HD content. Yes, upconverted SD to HD, looks a little better, but to many people are believing Strech-o-Vision is REAL HD, its not, but the Lemming think its HD and there seems to be more and more, Lemmings all the time. The Lemmings out number us, don't care about being educated, and because of this, there is NO pressure for most of these stations to add HD content. Most of us posting here, WILL be in the minority, can complain all we want, but until there is a BIG effort to educate the Lemmings we are in trouble. 
I just won, (6 Mississippi Muds) a bet with a D* buddy of mine over the weekend. He was POSITIVE, that TNT, was showing HD Content. D* told him it was(hey E* CS would have said samething, not arguing that) used the PiP feature of my 622 so he could see he wasn't getting anything EXTRA, the content was just STRECHED. He even went home, and double checked with his D* system. TNT, TBS, Cartoon, A&E, USA, all just Strech-o-Vision. Granted I have a 34" HD Toshiba Tube TV, so my SD looks better than most, but the ARM's Race(HD Channel Race) is going to cheapen "REAL" HD TV. All this talk of Upconverted looks better, just adds to the Lemming's ignorance, and down rights help justify's the Channels doing this, because they get feedback, ah this looks great, more than they hear complaints about Strech-o-Vision, and all marketing cares about is the numbers. Lemmings will Praise, Strech-O-Vision, the do even here, and this will help keep the investment into REAL HD Content, to very LITTLE, as there wont be a real reason too, and we will have to wait even longer for REAL HD, and NO DIGITAL IS NOT HD.


----------



## texaswolf

> From what I've heard SciFiHD has no more HD than TNTHD does. Only difference is that SciFi doesn't stretch and distort non-HD like TNTHD does... but I've never heard that SciFi has more HD than TNTHD.


i watch two shows when im there on SCIfi...both are in HD...there are others also...and no they dont stretch it...those two hours alone are more HD than i have seen on TNT total...


> If there's a good HD channel showing a lot of HD, then I'd be on the soapbox too... but as it is, even though I watch some SciFi and USA shows... I'm really only missing a few hours a week of HD if Dish added those two, and right now with hiatus + writers' strike going on, I'm literally missing nothing of consequence on those channels.


understandable...but also keep in mind that the shows you watch are probably the ones in HD...and the rest of the content looks much better than our SD...which is a nice plus....also the 9 extra movie channels would be a great choice to browse through HD movies channels, instead of only 4


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> Watching, the History Channel, TNT, and TBS, and posts by some here, I am not overly Thrilled with the RUSH to add more HD Channels until they start upping HD content. Yes, upconverted SD to HD, looks a little better, but to many people are believing Strech-o-Vision is REAL HD, its not, but the Lemming think its HD and there seems to be more and more, Lemmings all the time. The Lemmings out number us, don't care about being educated, and because of this, there is NO pressure for most of these stations to add HD content. Most of us posting here, WILL be in the minority, can complain all we want, but until there is a BIG effort to educate the Lemmings we are in trouble.
> I just won, (6 Mississippi Muds) a bet with a D* buddy of mine over the weekend. He was POSITIVE, that TNT, was showing HD Content. D* told him it was(hey E* CS would have said samething, not arguing that) used the PiP feature of my 622 so he could see he wasn't getting anything EXTRA, the content was just STRECHED. He even went home, and double checked with his D* system. TNT, TBS, Cartoon, A&E, USA, all just Strech-o-Vision. Granted I have a 34" HD Toshiba Tube TV, so my SD looks better than most, but the ARM's Race(HD Channel Race) is going to cheapen "REAL" HD TV. All this talk of Upconverted looks better, just adds to the Lemming's ignorance, and down rights help justify's the Channels doing this, because they get feedback, ah this looks great, more than they hear complaints about Strech-o-Vision, and all marketing cares about is the numbers. Lemmings will Praise, Strech-O-Vision, the do even here, and this will help keep the investment into REAL HD Content, to very LITTLE, as there wont be a real reason too, and we will have to wait even longer for REAL HD, and NO DIGITAL IS NOT HD.


ok...one thing i keep seeing on here is people putting tnt stretchy in the same area as "upconverted"...maybe i see them different, but the "upconverted" i am talking about IS NOT STRETCHED....and yes on a 34" the sd looks good...on a 56" DLP...it looks like crap....my friend got the same tv on the same deal, so i got a good comparison of the channels...and trust me...it looks better...i don't waste my time on the stretchy channels anyway...channels that i have mentioned are ones we see a lot of people asking about (besides USA)...and they are not stretched..they look "cleaner" and the big shows are clean HD...

I understand what you are saying about "lemmings" wanting stretch-o-vision...i hate it too....but if they release a few of them (that i wont watch anyway) along with the 9 more true HD movies channels and a bunch more "clean" HD nationals...I'll take it over none of them now.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Others I have seen are the Starz channels: Starz Comedy HD, Starz West HD, Starz Kids and Family, Starz Edge HD...they all look as good as our HD premiums...i havent seen the Cinemax West, Showtime west, sho too, or The Movie Channel HD's yet, but i have been told they look just like the Starz...i will check them out next time i'm at my friends house. Now talk about having all those movie channels in HD here....i'd be buying more externals...thats for sure!


That's the odd part ... we hear so much about a couple of the dozen "upconvert" channels D* has that E* has passed on so far but we don't hear many complaints about the HD premiums. Four west feeds and five other feeds of commercial free and presumably decent quality HD --- yet we keep hearing about part time channels?

Confusing?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Oh I understand those with much bigger TV's having, Needing the UPconverted content. 
As for channels Sci-Fi is a Channel I want, its been hard waiting for and knowing that its uplinked and not active yet is making it worse. I even considered moving over to D*, but Family and myself trumped that after playing with the D* DVR.

What I am getting tired of hearing and reading, is we need this channel, i.e the cartoon network( and others), NO HD on that channel at all. Yes user with a 56" DLP will find the picture better with upconverted SD, but it isn't helping the REAL cause here, of getting more REAL HD CONTENT. In fact the more lemmings that buy that size TV, getting upconverted SD, jumping up and down for joy, will just delay the the investment, by the Networks, even longer. These companies have been putting this off for years now as it is.


----------



## grooves12

James Long said:


> That's the odd part ... we hear so much about a couple of the dozen "upconvert" channels D* has that E* has passed on so far but we don't hear many complaints about the HD premiums. Four west feeds and five other feeds of commercial free and presumably decent quality HD --- yet we keep hearing about part time channels?
> 
> Confusing?


Which is exactly the reason they have not been added. They are a premium that a small percentage of the subscriber-base is interested in, and then even fewer of those subscribers are also HD subscribers, THEN add in the fact that the majority of the content is just duplicated at different times throughout the day/month from the primary HD channels that D* already carries, and all those extra premiums don't mean much to the bottom line.

But, a popular cable network like SciFi/FX that is in a more popular base package that nearly all HD subscribers would be eligible to receive, for no added cost, should it be carried will garner more interest (even for many subscribers who probably will never watch it... they just want to check off that box.)


----------



## grooves12

GrumpyBear said:


> Oh I understand those with much bigger TV's having, Needing the UPconverted content.
> As for channels Sci-Fi is a Channel I want, its been hard waiting for and knowing that its uplinked and not active yet is making it worse. I even considered moving over to D*, but Family and myself trumped that after playing with the D* DVR.
> 
> What I am getting tired of hearing and reading, is we need this channel, i.e the cartoon network( and others), NO HD on that channel at all. Yes user with a 56" DLP will find the picture better with upconverted SD, but it isn't helping the REAL cause here, of getting more REAL HD CONTENT. In fact the more lemmings that buy that size TV, getting upconverted SD, jumping up and down for joy, will just delay the the investment, by the Networks, even longer. These companies have been putting this off for years now as it is.


This upconvert talk pisses me off... because the quality is not better because they are doing something magical to the signal that makes it look better than it started. What they are doing is not OVERcompressing it and DOWNconverting like they do for all the normal SD channels.

Anyone that has an OTA antenna will tell you... the SD channels look WORLDS better on SD programming, compared to the SD crap delivered down the pipe from either satellite provider. I would say roughly 50% less detail. Hell real SD looks nearly as good as the compressed HD does from the sat providers. I would be much happier if they didn't add another single HD channel, and instead upped all the SD to full resolution with less compression artifacts.


----------



## James Long

GrumpyBear said:


> As for channels Sci-Fi is a Channel I want, its been hard waiting for and knowing that its uplinked and not active yet is making it worse.


Just a quick note: Uplink reports (such as JohnH posts, with our appreciation) are based on an index table listing of channels. There is no guarantee that there is anything on that transponder resembling Sci-Fi or USA. With the PPV HD channel moves _off_ of that transponder there is apparently at least space available - but content? That's beyond the scope of the reports.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> That's the odd part ... we hear so much about a couple of the dozen "upconvert" channels D* has that E* has passed on so far but we don't hear many complaints about the HD premiums. Four west feeds and five other feeds of commercial free and presumably decent quality HD --- yet we keep hearing about part time channels?
> 
> Confusing?


yeah i know...for me it's pretty simple..the channels that look like tbs/tnt...i dont bother with...i just would enjoy all the others we mentioned.


----------



## texaswolf

grooves12 said:


> Which is exactly the reason they have not been added. They are a premium that a small percentage of the subscriber-base is interested in, and then even fewer of those subscribers are also HD subscribers, THEN add in the fact that the majority of the content is just duplicated at different times throughout the day/month from the primary HD channels that D* already carries, and all those extra premiums don't mean much to the bottom line.
> 
> But, a popular cable network like SciFi/FX that is in a more popular base package that nearly all HD subscribers would be eligible to receive, for no added cost, should it be carried will garner more interest (even for many subscribers who probably will never watch it... they just want to check off that box.)


true...but for those people who have the AEP + HD would get all of those xtra HD movie channels...not to mention the selling point for upgrades to it. They have become a lot better at not showing the same movies an hour apart....on separate channels...they actually show a decent variety now...and to have them in HD would be sweet. I think the premiums mean a pretty good amount...or they wouldn't bother carriying so many...if they had those in HD, they could probably sell a lot more.


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> Oh I understand those with much bigger TV's having, Needing the UPconverted content.
> As for channels Sci-Fi is a Channel I want, its been hard waiting for and knowing that its uplinked and not active yet is making it worse. I even considered moving over to D*, but Family and myself trumped that after playing with the D* DVR.
> 
> What I am getting tired of hearing and reading, is we need this channel, i.e the cartoon network( and others), NO HD on that channel at all. Yes user with a 56" DLP will find the picture better with upconverted SD, but it isn't helping the REAL cause here, of getting more REAL HD CONTENT. In fact the more lemmings that buy that size TV, getting upconverted SD, jumping up and down for joy, will just delay the the investment, by the Networks, even longer. These companies have been putting this off for years now as it is.


I don't know...i mean there are people out there who think tbs is good HD...but i have hard time believing that after they watch all of the other HD channels, especially the VOOM's...that they couldn't tell the difference. I don't see more and more channels going this way...the ones that do now don't really have any top rated programming, do they? Maybe A&E...but some of their "higher rated" shows are in regular HD, not stretched....but a lot of the other stuff is.

I personally can't watch them..it drives me nuts..i hate watching SD channels, but those are even worse.:nono2:


----------



## GrumpyBear

James Long said:


> Just a quick note: Uplink reports (such as JohnH posts, with our appreciation) are based on an index table listing of channels. There is no guarantee that there is anything on that transponder resembling Sci-Fi or USA. With the PPV HD channel moves _off_ of that transponder there is apparently at least space available - but content? That's beyond the scope of the reports.


Sci-Fi will have some shows in HD that I would like to see, without having to wait a yr for them to appear on UNIHD. 
I also know that a uplink, is NO Guarantee, JUST wishful thinking.:grin:


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> Sci-Fi will have some shows in HD that I would like to see, without having to wait a yr for them to appear on UNIHD.
> I also know that a uplink, is NO Guarantee, JUST wishful thinking.:grin:


if your talking about BSG and Atlantis, I can tell you they ARE in HD...well over there...but will be once we get it too.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

One thing about the Premiums... I find a lot of non-HD stuff on the premiums, and also a lot of things that are not OAR. Die Hard has been on a few times recently, not in OAR and not very HD looking on HBO. Starz sometimes shows 16x9 for movies that should be 2.35:1 as does HBO and MAX.

I watched Galaxy Quest one day on MAX in 4:3 with sidebars on the HD channel... then a few hours later on the same channel it was in 16x9.

So I'm not completely sold on the HD premiums either since they seem to be hit or miss in terms of OAR as well as HD themselves. At least no stretchy stuff on them though.

Funny thing about this topic "no new HD" is that it applies not just to the lack of channel additions BUT also to the lack of HD on the existing channels as well.


----------



## wmj5

how would I know if I am watching mpeg-2 or mpeg-4?


----------



## msmith198025

GrumpyBear said:


> TNT, TBS, Cartoon, A&E, *USA*, all just Strech-o-Vision. .


You did have some facts in the quote, but the part about USA is false. They dont stretch anything that I have seen. It is either HD or OAR.


----------



## rey_1178

l8er said:


> Most people probably realize the difference is in the degree of compression - or to be more precise - MPEG4 as opposed to MPEG2, as well as 1080i compared to 480i. So don't let it raise your blood pressure - even though the fact is that the HD "upconverts" look 100 times better than their SD counterparts even with the same 4:3 content on both.


+1


----------



## booger

Did D* even make it to 100 HD channels? He's got 5 days left.


----------



## msmith198025

booger said:


> Did D* even make it to 100 HD channels? He's got 5 days left.


They made it to where they said, which was "up to 100 channels"


----------



## James Long

booger said:


> Did D* even make it to 100 HD channels? He's got 5 days left.


The "alternate" HD RSNs make it difficult to count, but if all the padding is added (including locals and distant TV networks and PPV) they sort of made it past 100. Sort of.

If one follows the "up to" a one channel system offers "up to 100" channels. But they did OK.


----------



## msmith198025

James Long said:


> If one follows the "up to" a one channel system offers "up to 100" channels. But they did OK.


Not in this case, where a lower limit was pretty much set if i am not mistaken


----------



## texaswolf

booger said:


> Did D* even make it to 100 HD channels? He's got 5 days left.


wonder if E* will get some up "by years end"...5 days left


----------



## texaswolf

msmith198025 said:


> You did have some facts in the quote, but the part about USA is false. They dont stretch anything that I have seen. It is either HD or OAR.


+1


----------



## James Long

msmith198025 said:


> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> If one follows the "up to" a one channel system offers "up to 100" channels. But they did OK.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in this case, where a lower limit was pretty much set if i am not mistaken
Click to expand...

Don't be mistaken. D* did not give a range, they gave an "up to". The only set "lower limit" was the 10 channels (and spotbeamed RSNs) that they had when they started adding channels.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Every provider has "up to 100 channels" of HD now. Some are just more "up to" than others.


----------



## James Long

Let me pre-quote what texaswolf might say next:


> What is E* "up to"? Where's the HD?


----------



## msmith198025

James Long said:


> Don't be mistaken. D* did not give a range, they gave an "up to". The only set "lower limit" was the 10 channels (and spotbeamed RSNs) that they had when they started adding channels.


I am pretty sure they said "75 by (insert time here, fall?) with up to 100 by years end".

Off topic though


----------



## texaswolf

What is E* "up to"? Where's the HD?...j/k

i think that is your inner child trying to help you escape from Charlies grasp 


nah i really dont care about the count...just certain channels...and soon


----------



## Paul Secic

rey_1178 said:


> i woke up today hoping that maybe at least 1 channel was added to our hd lineup but nothing. it has been a disappointing year for e* hd.


I was watching CNBC this morning and a Dish ad came on saying a new channel is coming Jan 22, but I wasn't paying attention. I just heard coming Jan 22nd. Don't take it as gospel.


----------



## Paul Secic

jal said:


> Switch to Directv! You will have all the HD channels tomorrow.


& pay more. No thanks!


----------



## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> Things aren't going to get much better until those additional satellites are up there. With that said, I've been with E* a long, long time. But Comcast is upgrading its system out here in the wilderness and _*telling us *_what they're doing, making them a possible option when I wouldn't have considered such a move ever. I want to know if USA and SciFi HD are coming up on Dish Network on New Year's day. If not, when? And if I don't pay E* for HD and don't tell them when, will they just sit in dismay like I am? They are just plain rude!


Um Comcast raised rates twice in SF Bay Area. Never trust Comcast sir.


----------



## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> What is E* "up to"? Where's the HD?...j/k
> 
> i think that is your inner child trying to help you escape from Charlies grasp
> 
> nah i really dont care about the count...just certain channels...and soon


Thats pretty much me, i just enjoy discussing it with James from time to time


----------



## HDlover

Has Comcast made it to their 400 "Ondemand" HD channels/programs they promised?


----------



## Paul Secic

rey_1178 said:


> +1


+ 2


----------



## tomcrown1

I just hope that dish does not raise the Hd package, if they do Iam gone it is only worth $20.00 and not a dollar more.


----------



## rey_1178

has anyone noticed how charlie looks like the Enzyte guy in the commercial?


----------



## Hound

tomcrown1 said:


> I just hope that dish does not raise the Hd package, if they do Iam gone it is only worth $20.00 and not a dollar more.


My prediction is that the HD price is going down to 9.99 like rumored in another thread, with an additional HD tier for an additional price. According to the Cablevision financial statements (discloses the number of Voom Subs) E* apparently only has approximately 900,000 HD subs which would give E* an
HD penetration rate (HD subs to total subs) of about 6 percent. Which is the
lowest in the industry behind D*, Comcast, and Cablevision. E.g., Cablevision has disclosed that its HD penetration is about 28 percent. Is it surprising that the
two companies with the best HD DVR, E* and Tivo are lagging in HD penetration?
What does that tell you? 1) All HD subs are not videophiles? 2) Price counts?,
or 3) HD content counts? or all three. Sports has been an engine to get early
adaptors. Comcast and Cablevision have pushed HD RSNs in their footprints and
D* has proclaimed itself the HD sports leader. Upstart Verizon which is aggressively competing with Cablevision and Comcast has also pushed HD RSNs in each of its new footprints. In the Northeast, from Maine to Pennsylvania,
E* is missing NESN HD, CSNNE HD, MSG HD, FSNY HD, YES HD, CSN HD (which
it cannot get, but D* is providing MSG HD, SNY HD, YES HD and FSNY HD in CSN HD territory). And E* still has not turned on FSNBA HD.


----------



## James Long

Cable has the benefit of being able to put on a couple of channels and call themselves a HD system - and since all local stations on cable in HD are passed to all customers it's easy to run up the numbers to claim penetration.

Cable passes 123 million homes, carrying high speed internet past 117.1 million of them (with 34.6 million subscribing) and HDTV past 100 million. The penetration number you give is for one company that represents less than five percent of the cable industry. Do you have REAL numbers for Comcast and DirecTV? SEC filings or press releases preferred, please.


----------



## Hound

James Long said:


> Cable has the benefit of being able to put on a couple of channels and call themselves a HD system - and since all local stations on cable in HD are passed to all customers it's easy to run up the numbers to claim penetration.
> 
> Cable passes 123 million homes, carrying high speed internet past 117.1 million of them (with 34.6 million subscribing) and HDTV past 100 million. The penetration number you give is for one company that represents less than five percent of the cable industry. Do you have REAL numbers for Comcast and DirecTV? SEC filings or press releases preferred, please.


Yes, HDNET in the lawyers briefs claimed that D* had 2,000,000 HD subs. The briefs were all over the Internet and the links are on this web site in other threads. With the third quarter earnings release, the Comcast President publicly claimed that Comcast had more HD subs than E* and D* combined. In Comcast's last quarterly filing, Comcast made a claim that HD and DVR subs was something like 4.5 million. I think it is safe to assume Comcast has 3,000,000 HD subs. Its on
Comcast and Swanni's web site.


----------



## Hound

James Long said:


> Cable has the benefit of being able to put on a couple of channels and call themselves a HD system - and since all local stations on cable in HD are passed to all customers it's easy to run up the numbers to claim penetration.
> 
> The Cablevision number was supposed to be subs that actually had HD set top
> boxes or HD DVRs.


----------



## jrb531

tomcrown1 said:


> I just hope that dish does not raise the Hd package, if they do Iam gone it is only worth $20.00 and not a dollar more.


IMHO it's still not worth $20 and I too would leave or drop HD if they tried to raise HD.

The higher they raise our bills the more the call for ala cart will come back out.

Yes yes I know this is a sore spot and many people here still maintain that pay TV is so much cheaper because we are forced to pay for more channels than we want but as the average bill inches toward the $100 mark many people will have to evaluate it's worth.

To some, my wife included LOL, the TV set is the prime form of entertainment and $1200+ a year is a steal considering they sit in front of the darn thing * hours a day LOL.

To other, such as myself, who only want to watch a few hours a week... well that $100 is an utter rip off. It matters not how much we "can" watch but rather how much we do watch.

So give me the option to watch a show for $1 each via the net and "I" would save a ton of money because I only watch 1-2 shows a week!

This is what some people jsut do not get and when I bring this up I get flooded with "well then just cancel" but why can't both types of viewers co-exist?

Why? Well because pay TV does not give ANY options for lite viewing habits. They could come out with limited hours of viewing if they wanted.... $20 a month for 20 hours or something along those lines... or allow us to pay only for the channels we want but they know that right now, by forcing us to take them all, they can make more of us pay them for what we do not want over those willing to cancel over high costs.

As they raise the prices more people will swing toward the "cancel" column.

Sadly, due to my wife, I do not have that option but if not for her I would cancel in a heartbeat and just use Netflix to rent the shows I do like and get my news and other forms of entertainment from the net.

-JB


----------



## James Long

jrb531 said:


> ... but as the average bill inches toward the $100 mark many people will have to evaluate it's worth.


The average bill is $66.01 for E* and $78.79 for D* ... but it is inching toward $100.


----------



## davethestalker

BBC is now HD. So, there are people across the pond that are getting to see Top Gear in HD.


----------



## nataraj

davethestalker said:


> BBC is now HD. So, there are people across the pond that are getting to see Top Gear in HD.


I that BBC News ?


----------



## Moridin

nataraj said:


> I that BBC News ?


Nope. BBC Two, at least in reference to Top Gear.


----------



## davethestalker

nataraj said:


> I that BBC News ?


 Does BBC News show full episodes of Top Gear and then followed by Heroes?

I "found" the "Polar" episode of TG. At the end, as the credits start, it says that you are watching BBC HD, stay tuned for Heroes.


----------



## SWTESTER

texaswolf said:


> What is E* "up to"? Where's the HD?...j/k
> 
> i think that is your inner child trying to help you escape from Charlies grasp
> 
> nah i really dont care about the count...just certain channels...and soon


ya just some channels...

ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS MY NEW HD ...   :lol: :grin:

Hey Charlie! Sci-Fi HD, USA-HD, CNN-HD, TWC-HD ; maybe HBO, Starz and Showtime West HD feeds

AND a better bird at 129 and maybe more content on VOOM or is 129 going Kaboom???
...although DISH is Still better than Comcast's prices and DVR's and lack of HD channels


----------



## Paul Secic

James Long said:


> The average bill is $66.01 for E* and $78.79 for D* ... but it is inching toward $100.


In 6 months my Dish bill will be $108.99. When I had Comcast for 3 days my bill would have been $93, and that's without HD and a DVR. I think their DVRS come seperate. So to me Dish is cheaper.


----------



## tomcrown1

I do not think that at CES Charlie will talk about HD. I believe he will instead talk about the new slingbox HD Dish Receiver the S722. Charlie will more than likely talk about the hardware since that is were Dish is better than Direct or cable.

Hd leader in the number of channels belongs to Direct.


----------



## rey_1178

Paul Secic said:


> In 6 months my Dish bill will be $108.99. When I had Comcast for 3 days my bill would have been $93, and that's without HD and a DVR. I think their DVRS come seperate. So to me Dish is cheaper.


i agree. i pay the same and comcast is more expensive with hd and dvrs and it's nowhere close to E*


----------



## texaswolf

Paul Secic said:


> In 6 months my Dish bill will be $108.99. When I had Comcast for 3 days my bill would have been $93, and that's without HD and a DVR. I think their DVRS come seperate. So to me Dish is cheaper.


i pay the same i did at Charter...but i get much more content...which is why i switched.


----------



## nneptune

I'm over the $100 mark myself.
But, I love the 622.
I've been with E* for about 10 years.
For about a year I tried Directv, but their hardware was such crap that I dropped it.

So, now that Charlie has shown us that the 622 and 722 are superior to other hardware available, how about sending a few more HD channels our way???
PS My locals are so lame that they broadcast in HD to the local cable company, but not for DISH owners. Should i complain to the local stations about this? I need correct protocol! thanks...


----------



## texaswolf

Hey..Scifi HD and CNN HD have been added!!...................by Comcast


They also added 3 more we already have (Discovery, History, TLC)


----------



## whatchel1

nneptune said:


> I'm over the $100 mark myself.
> But, I love the 622.
> I've been with E* for about 10 years.
> For about a year I tried Directv, but their hardware was such crap that I dropped it.
> 
> So, now that Charlie has shown us that the 622 and 722 are superior to other hardware available, how about sending a few more HD channels our way???
> PS My locals are so lame that they broadcast in HD to the local cable company, but not for DISH owners. Should i complain to the local stations about this? I need correct protocol! thanks...


Most likely the cable co gets them one of two ways. They either have a fiber box at each of the stations going to their headend (that's how we supply the local cable co here) or they just pick the signal up off air and modulate it w/ QUAM encoder to their subs.


----------



## Hound

tomcrown1 said:


> I do not think that at CES Charlie will talk about HD. I believe he will instead talk about the new slingbox HD Dish Receiver the S722. Charlie will more than likely talk about the hardware since that is were Dish is better than Direct or cable.
> 
> Hd leader in the number of channels belongs to Direct.


At CES 2007, E* completely ignored HD. Charlie made a comment about HD
RSNs that the content was only relevant to a small number of subs. One year
later, E* has about 900,000 HD subs, the lowest HD penetration among major MVPS and D* has about 2,000,000 HD subs.


----------



## jrb531

Hound said:


> E* has about 900,000 HD subs, the lowest HD penetration among major MVPS and D* has about 2,000,000 HD subs.


Is this why the average bill for D* is higher?

I wonder how the two compare if you take out HD.

Is D* really more expensive (monthly and not inital cost) or is this at least partly because D* has more HD subscribers who pay an extra $10 a month (wish it was only $10 for us!)

-JB


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> (wish it was only $10 for us!)
> 
> -JB


+1


----------



## Hound

jrb531 said:


> Is this why the average bill for D* is higher?
> 
> I wonder how the two compare if you take out HD.
> 
> Is D* really more expensive (monthly and not inital cost) or is this at least partly because D* has more HD subscribers who pay an extra $10 a month (wish it was only $10 for us!)
> 
> -JB


Its part of the reason. E*'s marketing approach seems to be knocking off the
lower end of the market with its 29.99 package, 5.98 DVR fee and no HD. That is much cheaper than cable and will continue to attract subs from cable. D* with its more HD sports than anyone else marketing is signing up sports fans who want HD. My guess is the sports fans tend to spend a little more money than the
average sub. (HD DVRs, premium channels, Sunday Ticket, MLB EI, NHL CI, 
NBA LP). Last year when the MLB EI renewal issue came up, it was disclosed
that D* had more than five times as many MLB EI subs than E*. But that is
a direct result of Sunday Ticket and out of market football fans who want
to watch their out of market baseball team as well.


----------



## James Long

It may be chicken and egg, but if the 900k figure is true then over 95% of E* customers don't have HD and likely could care less about the HD channels that have been "demanded" on the Internet forums.

Both numbers are from second hand knowledge ... one assumes that E* has only 900k subscribers because Cablevision claimed 900k Voom subscribers in the last quarter before Cablevision added the channels to their own system (and they now claim 1.8 million Voom subscribers). That is dismissing the $9.99 HD subscribers still on the system from before February 2006 and AK/HI pack subscribers.

If D* could swing 2 million HD subs on their 10 channel system (the second hand knowledge for that figure coming from HDNet's complaint, not a sub count AFTER expansion) it is logical to expect that E* has a reasonable number of grandfathered $9.99 subs. Subs that would never show up in Cablevision's numbers.

The tea leaves are interesting, but I wish BOTH satellite providers would give a real breakdown of subscriptions by package level and HD/SD. Then we would not have to guess based on second hand figures.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> It may be chicken and egg, but if the 900k figure is true then over 95% of E* customers don't have HD and likely could care less about the HD channels that have been "demanded" on the Internet forums.


I don't think HD sub numbers really matter _yet_....unless you see a major shift in them...but like you said...who reports the real numbers anyway?


----------



## Hound

James Long said:


> It may be chicken and egg,
> 
> Both numbers are from second hand knowledge ... one assumes that E* has only 900k subscribers because Cablevision claimed 900k Voom subscribers in the last quarter before Cablevision added the channels to their own system (and they now claim 1.8 million Voom subscribers). That is dismissing the $9.99 HD subscribers still on the system from before February 2006 and AK/HI pack subscribers.
> 
> If D* could swing 2 million HD subs on their 10 channel system (the second hand knowledge for that figure coming from HDNet's complaint, not a sub count AFTER expansion) it is logical to expect that E* has a reasonable number of grandfathered $9.99 subs. Subs that would never show up in Cablevision's numbers.
> 
> The tea leaves are interesting, but I wish BOTH satellite providers would give a real breakdown of subscriptions by package level and HD/SD. Then we would not have to guess based on second hand figures.


The tea leaves are interesting. The bump in Voom subs in Cablevision's
financial statement coincides with Cablevision providing Voom to their HD
subs, so I have to believe that the 900,000 number is more or less correct for
E*. The additional Voom subs belong to Cablevision. The 2,000,000 subs claimed in the HDNET suit must be more or less correct because HDNET was paid on a per sub basis by D* and the HDNET lawyers are not going to put false information into a court filing.

I agree that most E* subs could care less about all the HD channels being
demanded. The issues in the tea leaves are corporate marketing strategies,
what type of subs are the two sat companies going after, churn (adding new and retaining old subs), spending on advertising and overall profitability. The Internet forums can comment and speculate all they want. So what sells HD subs or gets existing SD subs to upgrade? Content, price, sports, RSNs, quality of HD DVRs......?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I could see how DirecTV might have more HD subscribers, even when they had less channels in HD than Dish.

DirecTV is an older company, and should have more long-term "from the beginning" type of subscribers on their books. That plus however many folks sign up for those season-ticket type sports packages usually are bigger spenders, and those are more likely to have spent for HD as well.

So I wouldn't be surprised to find DirecTV had a higher HD subscriber count even with less channels than Dish... and presumably a higher count as they have added more channels.


----------



## James Long

Hound said:


> The tea leaves are interesting. The bump in Voom subs in Cablevision's financial statement coincides with Cablevision providing Voom to their HD subs, so I have to believe that the 900,000 number is more or less correct for E*. The additional Voom subs belong to Cablevision.


So E* (the only distributor for Voom) added 700k new Voom subscribers between the end of June 2006 and the end of June 2007 and then stopped?

Per Cablevisions reports, Voom had 25k subscribers Dec 31st, 2005 (the E* $5 add on subscribers) ... 36k March 31st, 2006 (which would include the first signups to new DishHD packages). From there the numbers go to 100k (June 30th), 200k (Sept 30th), 300k (Dec 31st), 600k (Mar 31st), 800k (June 30th).

In order to believe that 900k is correct, you have to believe that E* did not have non-Voom HD subs prior to February 2006, does not have AK/HI HD subs and added less than 100k HD subscribers in 3Q 2007. Sorry, but that is too much speculation for me to believe.



> The 2,000,000 subs claimed in the HDNET suit must be more or less correct because HDNET was paid on a per sub basis by D* and the HDNET lawyers are not going to put false information into a court filing.


More or less correct ... and that number was disputed in the thread where it was originally posted (as too low). But my point is that if 200k were willing to pay D* for 10 channel HD why wouldn't a similar number be willing to pay E* for 10 channel HD? These would be the non-Voom HD subs mentioned above.



> The issues in the tea leaves are corporate marketing strategies,
> what type of subs are the two sat companies going after, churn (adding new and retaining old subs), spending on advertising and overall profitability. The Internet forums can comment and speculate all they want. So what sells HD subs or gets existing SD subs to upgrade? Content, price, sports, RSNs, quality of HD DVRs......?


The first question should be how much HD subs play into the formula for success. D* apparently goes after the high ticket customer (with NFL and other expensive packages) but still only captures ~$79 per month per subscriber. Many have predicted the demise of E* for not having certain packages and channels yet they still capture ~$66 per month per subscriber. But (of course) these numbers are from LAST quarter when D* had 10 channels of HD.

Which is the stupidity of it all ... we all speculate based on CURRENT market conditions (E* and D* having the channels they have TODAY) when the only figures we have are from the PAST (and are incomplete). We have to wait until March to see what effect D*'s "up to 100" HD channels had to their average revenue and their bottom line ... perhaps even until May to see the full effect of the customer aquisition costs. D* could post a financially "losing" quarter if these costs are too high and still be doing OK as a company (thanks to two year commitments to recoup those costs).

Both companies seem to turn a profit now ... which is good. They just have different way of reaching that goal.



HDMe said:


> So I wouldn't be surprised to find DirecTV had a higher HD subscriber count even with less channels than Dish.


The number that is missing is E*'s pre-2006 HDPack subscriber count (and the current special AK/HI pack subscribers). By using a "Voom" number one dismisses an entire group of subscribers.


----------



## Paul Secic

James Long said:


> It may be chicken and egg, but if the 900k figure is true then over 95% of E* customers don't have HD and likely could care less about the HD channels that have been "demanded" on the Internet forums.
> 
> Both numbers are from second hand knowledge ... one assumes that E* has only 900k subscribers because Cablevision claimed 900k Voom subscribers in the last quarter before Cablevision added the channels to their own system (and they now claim 1.8 million Voom subscribers). That is dismissing the $9.99 HD subscribers still on the system from before February 2006 and AK/HI pack subscribers.
> 
> If D* could swing 2 million HD subs on their 10 channel system (the second hand knowledge for that figure coming from HDNet's complaint, not a sub count AFTER expansion) it is logical to expect that E* has a reasonable number of grandfathered $9.99 subs. Subs that would never show up in Cablevision's numbers.
> 
> The tea leaves are interesting, but I wish BOTH satellite providers would give a real breakdown of subscriptions by package level and HD/SD. Then we would not have to guess based on second hand figures.


Yesterday I read a poll on Multichannel News that 50% had digtal/HD 50% had analog. But it didn't give HD results.

BTW my caregiver Haydee notices the difference between analog & HD. Now that's something! We love RAVEHD.


----------



## HobbyTalk

The article stated that 50% of sets are digital.... digital and HDTV are two different things. Later in the article it states that 79% of digital TV set sales should be HDTVs in 2008.


----------



## Richard King

> We love RAVEHD.


You and Haydee have excellent taste.


----------



## trolane

i'm annoyed with the missing HD channels that we should be getting like the west versions of the payed movie channels and sci fi hd.
Only thing stopping from switching to direct tv is the huge investment cost to get up and going with HD and them compared to what Dish costed.


----------



## harsh

trolane said:


> i'm annoyed with the missing HD channels that we should be getting like the west versions of the payed movie channels and sci fi hd.


I'd like to see SciFi as soon as there's something worth watching. As for the West premiums, NO WAY. We don't need them gobbling up the bandwidth with a three hour delayed version of the East feeds.


----------



## MarkoC

harsh said:


> As for the West premiums, NO WAY. We don't need them gobbling up the bandwidth with a three hour delayed version of the East feeds.


I have to agree, back before I had a DVR I could see the advantage of the west coast feeds, but being able to record anything I want at many different times renders them unnecessary IMO.


----------



## James Long

Having west coast feeds could help satellite compete better against cable ... but both satellite systems seem to be doing fairly well without those feeds of most networks.

West coast HD of the movie channels could help avoid recording conflicts and give people more options.


----------



## texaswolf

harsh said:


> I'd like to see SciFi as soon as there's something worth watching.


Apparently there are things worth watching considering the amount of people who wanted added, and considering that the other providers have added, or are adding it quickly.



> As for the West premiums, NO WAY. We don't need them gobbling up the bandwidth with a three hour delayed version of the East feeds.


so then, we should get rid of Film fest, Monster, and Kung FU, since they show the same movies over again roughly every three hours? I think it would be good to have all those choices of HD movies, it gives more choices and chances to watch/record a movie you want, in case you were already recording something when it was on before. Different movies on at the same time....it's better than only 4 HD premium channels Once E* gets to the point that they do start adding more channels, then wasted bandwith wont be an issue


----------



## Hound

"More or less correct ... and that number was disputed in the thread where it was originally posted (as too low). But my point is that if 200k were willing to pay D* for 10 channel HD why wouldn't a similar number be willing to pay E* for 10 channel HD? These would be the non-Voom HD subs mentioned above."

Because D* had major HD RSNs with the 10 channel HD lineup and the benefit of
Sunday Ticket Subs (I agree with HDMe). YES HD and NESN HD has given D* a huge advantage in signing up HD subs. As I said earlier in the thread, E* is missing HD RSNs in about 10 key states in the Northeast. No HD RSN for DE, PA, NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI, NH, VT and ME except SNY HD which was added late in 2007. It is very plausible that D* was able to sign up more than twice as many HD subs as E* because sports has been an early engine for HD growth. 

The $20 HD fee was an obstacle in getting the lower end E* subs ( the ones
that sign up for the $29.99 package and one $5.98 DVR fee) to upgrade to
HD. That was why E* announced free HD for six months in August to new
HD subs. I believe the new three tier HD fee rumors for E* are true, because
the $20 fee precluded many subs from upgrading. 

E* seems to be taking steps to being a major player in signing HD subs. 
Turning on the four northeast HD RSNs, MSG HD, FSNY HD, CSNNE HD,
NESN HD and FSNBA HD will be another step in that direction. 

E* does have some other HD subs than the 900,000 that qualify for
Voom. How many? I will not speculate. But the 2,000,000/900,000 ratio is a good indicator of the success of the two satellite companies HD strategy in 2007.
The 900,000 figure is real, Cablevision's auditors would not allow it in the
financial statement otherwise.


----------



## trolane

MarkoC said:


> I have to agree, back before I had a DVR I could see the advantage of the west coast feeds, but being able to record anything I want at many different times renders them unnecessary IMO.


I want west channels. i depend on saturday night premiers on hbo, cinemax and starz for my new movies and since they overlap i either have to watch 1 or lose it until its back on the hd channel.

As for bandwith does anyone have numbers on that? . All channels should be HD and there should be a law pushing it.


----------



## jimborst

trolane said:


> All channels should be HD and there should be a law pushing it.


Wow, that's really what we need, politicians passing laws that they'll just screw up and make things worse. Please lets not get the government involved!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

trolane said:


> As for bandwith does anyone have numbers on that? . All channels should be HD and there should be a law pushing it.


If they do that... I want a law that requires a movie to actually be good!


----------



## trolane

HDMe said:


> If they do that... I want a law that requires a movie to actually be good!


why would anyone not want an HD law?


----------



## harsh

trolane said:


> I want west channels. i depend on saturday night premiers on hbo, cinemax and starz for my new movies and since they overlap i either have to watch 1 or lose it until its back on the hd channel.


I'm not sure what you mean by Saturday Night Premieres.

This coming Saturday on HBO consists of _We are Marshall_ (2006) and _Braveheart_ (1995).

Skinamax has _The Shawshank Redemption_ (1994) and _Reno 911: Miami_ (2/07)

Starz is actually playing some newer movies this coming Saturday in the form of POTC-DMC (2006) and _Bridge to Terabithia_ (2/07).

Obviously, having a second feed takes twice as much bandwidth to deliver exactly the same slate of programming. This brings with it the potential to shut out an HD channel that has exclusive HD content so that _you_ might have a whack of recording what I presume to be the first of many runs of a program.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

trolane said:


> why would anyone not want an HD law?


The better question is why would anyone want such a law?

Seriously... there are lots of things the government has no business mandating, and this would be one of them.

Maybe there should be a law that all food taste good and be healthy... or laws that require us to exercise... there is just no good reason at all why a law requiring HD makes any sense or would be beneficial in the long run.


----------



## conchshell

it's too bad the boxes and content are one decision. 622/722 + directv offerings would be perfect.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> harsh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to see SciFi as soon as there's something worth watching.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently there are things worth watching considering the amount of people who wanted added, and considering that the other providers have added, or are adding it quickly.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure that Tin Man looked better in HD, it still looks pretty good upconverted and proportionally zoomed by my 622 to my HD. Your opinion will vary.



> so then, we should get rid of Film fest, Monster, and Kung FU, since they show the same movies over again roughly every three hours?


Only if you have a network airing the first three hours in HD. The difference being that one HAS HBO-HD and the other east coast networks to get the HD version from. A second feed for a three hour delay is not needed for a west coast viewer to see the program in HD. If you were to kill off Monster you'd also be killing off the first airings of the programs in HD.

Voom has a 15 year contract with E* for carriage. Unless the Voom channels cease production they will be on E*'s service. All this "let's drop Voom" discussion is 100% useless. As long as Voom exists, it is going to be on E* until 2020.


----------



## James Long

Hound said:


> The $20 HD fee was an obstacle in getting the lower end E* subs ( the ones that sign up for the $29.99 package and one $5.98 DVR fee) to upgrade to HD.


You are still ignoring the CURRENT $9.99 HD subs.



> E* does have some other HD subs than the 900,000 that qualify for Voom. How many? I will not speculate. But the 2,000,000/900,000 ratio is a good indicator of the success of the two satellite companies HD strategy in 2007. The 900,000 figure is real, Cablevision's auditors would not allow it in the financial statement otherwise.


That number may be real for Voom subscribers, but is absolutely NOT real for E* HD subscribers. You say you won't speculate and then you continue to speculate that number to zero above Voom subscribers.

*Not every E* HD subscriber has Voom.*
Please re-read that line until understood. Thank you.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> You are still ignoring the CURRENT $9.99 HD subs.
> 
> *Not every E* HD subscriber has Voom.*
> Please re-read that line until understood. Thank you.


With so many posts in this thread, I can't find the right info. So how and when did one get $9.99 HD without Voom?


----------



## drmckenzie

James Long said:


> While I'm sure that Tin Man looked better in HD, it still looks pretty good upconverted and proportionally zoomed by my 622 to my HD. Your opinion will vary.
> 
> Only if you have a network airing the first three hours in HD. The difference being that one HAS HBO-HD and the other east coast networks to get the HD version from. A second feed for a three hour delay is not needed for a west coast viewer to see the program in HD. If you were to kill off Monster you'd also be killing off the first airings of the programs in HD.
> 
> Voom has a 15 year contract with E* for carriage. Unless the Voom channels cease production they will be on E*'s service. All this "let's drop Voom" discussion is 100% useless. As long as Voom exists, it is going to be on E* until 2020.


That's good, because I like the Voom channels. They are a great antidote to the "let's use up our bandwidth on every football/baseball/hockey game all the time in all areas" syndrome which seems prevalent....


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> With so many posts in this thread, I can't find the right info. So how and when did one get $9.99 HD without Voom?


Prior to February 2006, Voom was an optional $5 service and a small HDPack was available for $9.99. Customers with that HDPack have not (yet) been forced to upgrade to the $20 plan.

In addition, for residents of Alaska and Hawaii there is a $9.99 HD package currently available that includes more that the original $9.99 package but no Voom channels.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> Prior to February 2006, Voom was an optional $5 service and a small HDPack was available for $9.99. Customers with that HDPack have not (yet) been forced to upgrade to the $20 plan.
> 
> In addition, for residents of Alaska and Hawaii there is a $9.99 HD package currently available that includes more that the original $9.99 package but no Voom channels.


Thanks for the info. Puts that whole Voom controversy into perspective.


----------



## Hound

James Long said:


> You are still ignoring the CURRENT $9.99 HD subs.
> 
> That number may be real for Voom subscribers, but is absolutely NOT real for E* HD subscribers. You say you won't speculate and then you continue to speculate that number to zero above Voom subscribers.
> 
> *Not every E* HD subscriber has Voom.*
> Please re-read that line until understood. Thank you.


Is there a current option to upgrade to HD for $9.99? I was not aware of that.

Are the $9.99 HD subs the MPEG 2 HD subs that did not upgrade their hardware
or are there MPEG 4 $9.99 subs as well.


----------



## James Long

Hound said:


> Are the $9.99 HD subs the MPEG 2 HD subs that did not upgrade their hardware or are there MPEG 4 $9.99 subs as well.


Both are true.

What we do not have figures for (even third party) are these two categories of HD customers.


----------



## Richard King

drmckenzie said:


> That's good, because I like the Voom channels. They are a great antidote to the "let's use up our bandwidth on every football/baseball/hockey game all the time in all areas" syndrome which seems prevalent....


Agree 100%, BUT, you forgot "Let's use up our bandwidth on existing SD channels by retransmitting them in HD even if they have VERY little HD content and distort SD content".


----------



## drmckenzie

Richard King said:


> Agree 100%, BUT, you forgot "Let's use up our bandwidth on existing SD channels by retransmitting them in HD even if they have VERY little HD content and distort SD content".


True. What we have is an industry trying (not always very successfully) to pull itself up by its bootstraps into a new video age. It's important for people like you, who understand the issues, to speak out when the emperor has left his clothes at home.

There's also a natural desire of people to have leadership in times of change. You can see it in posts where Dish is lambasted for doing this or not doing that. Now maybe Dish is doing the right things behind the scenes, in not responding to every conflicting demand that comes their way. But I believe they are not offering the leadership that would win their customer's loyalty. Distrust is a more common reaction.


----------



## HobbyTalk

The last time E* responded to customer's "demands" it got us the worthless HD channel TBS that has had no HD programming other then for one week. Now they are getting blasted for giving customers what they wanted. Damned if you do and damned if you don't .


----------



## Richard King

> The last time E* responded to customer's "demands" it got us the worthless HD channel TBS


Bingo!! I tried watching TBS last night, some Ahnold movie, just to take a look and couldn't bear to watch the stretchovision. Try watching that crap on a 98" screen sometime. It will drive you crazy after a short time. I had to change channels.


----------



## trolane

harsh said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by Saturday Night Premieres.
> 
> This coming Saturday on HBO consists of _We are Marshall_ (2006) and _Braveheart_ (1995).
> 
> Skinamax has _The Shawshank Redemption_ (1994) and _Reno 911: Miami_ (2/07)
> 
> Starz is actually playing some newer movies this coming Saturday in the form of POTC-DMC (2006) and _Bridge to Terabithia_ (2/07).
> 
> Obviously, having a second feed takes twice as much bandwidth to deliver exactly the same slate of programming. This brings with it the potential to shut out an HD channel that has exclusive HD content so that _you_ might have a whack of recording what I presume to be the first of many runs of a program.


HBO 8pm every sat = new movie
MAX 10pm every sat = new movie
STARZ 9pm every sat = new movie


----------



## TBoneit

trolane said:


> why would anyone not want an HD law?


Since no provider satellite or cable has the capacity to carry every SD channel in HD most of the channels available would go away.

Is that your goal to get a few more HD channels and kill of channels that the majority of viewers are happy watching in SD on their SD sets?


----------



## cpucrash0

trolane said:


> why would anyone not want an HD law?


shopping channels in hd.lol


----------



## Miggity

HDMe said:


> The better question is why would anyone want such a law?


How about instead of a _law _there is an actual *standard*? Some kind of seal of approval a network can apply for? Then TBS and History Channel will get their stuff together when they get denied. ESPN and Discovery and everybody else gets shiny gold "WE ARE HD" stars to put next to their content ratings when a show starts. But the losers get denied. Not yours TBS. Not yours History Channel.

Like it has to be in OAR and actually HD. No stretching. No falsely labeling everything as HD in our guides.

I am looking at you Turner Networks and AE Networks.

No stretching History Channel and TBS.

Zoom and crop is chill though. Discovery knows whats up.

(Screw you History Channel for making me record the same episodes of your shows 3-4 times until I am lucky enough to catch one in OAR and not "retard-stretched" letterboxed 16:9)


----------



## BobaBird

Nice idea Miggity, though I would implement it a bit differently.

The HD stations (HDNet, Universal, VOOM, etc) will get to remain bug-free. They may show their seal of approval during promo inserts.

Those claiming but not delivering will be required to include an animated bug of a steaming pile of dung that remains on the screen during all offending programs _and commercials_.


----------



## motts

Yea I agree with Miggity. What is up with the History channel showing the same show sometimes in OAR and other times (most of the time) in that ridiculous streching of 16:9? I cross my fingers every time I want to watch the Universe and 9/10 times I am disappointed and change the channel.

Is there no one there with any sense? How can they allow this to go on?


----------



## booger

Clear and Present Danger on the HistoryHD channel yesterday looked like crap! God it was awful. I hope they do get their act together.


----------



## davethestalker

All of the carriers need to speak up and hold the Stretchers and Croppers to account. I fear _that_ is the only way to get through to the networks.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> While I'm sure that Tin Man looked better in HD, it still looks pretty good upconverted and proportionally zoomed by my 622 to my HD. Your opinion will vary.
> 
> Only if you have a network airing the first three hours in HD. The difference being that one HAS HBO-HD and the other east coast networks to get the HD version from. A second feed for a three hour delay is not needed for a west coast viewer to see the program in HD. If you were to kill off Monster you'd also be killing off the first airings of the programs in HD.
> 
> Voom has a 15 year contract with E* for carriage. Unless the Voom channels cease production they will be on E*'s service. All this "let's drop Voom" discussion is 100% useless. As long as Voom exists, it is going to be on E* until 2020.


I have tried the "zoom to proportion" and while it looks better than the stretchy choice on the 622, peoples heads are huge and cut off...so yes, i would rather have that in HD...if the channels wasn't offered in HD anywhere, i would be more "happy with what i have", but since it is...and now by cable companies too ...it gets rather annoying.

I dont think we should get rid of VOOM at all, i was simply stating that if he was holding certain standards to channels others are wanting, then he should also hold them to current channels, also.


----------



## texaswolf

> Originally Posted by trolane View Post
> why would anyone not want an HD law?


You don't want the government to be involved in business decisions...unless there is a health risk or danger to people...free enterprise would be thrown out the window.

But mostly....in order for *all* channels to be *all HD*...then *all shows* would have to be filmed in HD...it's not up to E* or D*. As much as i would like to have all HD...it's simply unrealistic right now...think about how many people don't even have HDTV's....let alone care if a show is in HD...i personally can't stand to watch SD...but my wife (and others wives from what I've read) could care less...same goes for my folks...they are just looking into a HDTV..maybe...

You would also have to have a law that only HDdvd/BRD players are allowed to be sold...while it would make us HD nuts happy in our HD world...it's highly unrealistic.

By the way Happy New Years to everyone here!


----------



## Artwood

It's 2008. Any chance of some more HD by the end of 2009?


----------



## davethestalker

Artwood said:


> It's 2008. Any chance of some more HD by the end of 2009?


If Charlie is even remotely considering delaying that long, he better expect to lose more than half of his customer base.


----------



## James Long

With all due respect, I find the question insulting.
If you really believe E* will not add ANY HD in 2008 you should leave now.

Go to D* or go to cable ... and if you're already gone please stop insulting E* customers with such comments.


----------



## BNUMM

Even if they don't, E* will not lose half of it's customer base.


----------



## jimmino

Your all CRAZY!
I use to live in Italy (82 thru 94), I had one of the first (Home) Sat Dishes in 1988. It was E*. Not only the first! It was the only service for years! Once back here in the states I started with cable, then in 2001 I found that Dish was available to me and jumped to get it. It's not the only service...BUT, It's still the best! Why? Because HDTV and HD PROGRAMING is still very young. Your all like a bunch of kids on Christmas morning...I want, I want! Grow up and wait!
Panasonic HD tube 1080i
622 and 722
in SOCAL (Southern California)


----------



## whatchel1

Guys lighten up. I think the guy was just joking. :lol:


----------



## msmith198025

whatchel1 said:


> Guys lighten up. I think the guy was just joking. :lol:


+1. People are being WAYYYY to serious about this


----------



## msmith198025

jimmino said:


> Your all CRAZY!
> It's not the only service...BUT, It's still the best! Why? Because HDTV and HD PROGRAMING is still very young.


Juat curious, how does HDTV and HD programming being very young make one of the companies better than the other?


----------



## phrelin

jimmino said:


> Your all CRAZY!
> I use to live in Italy (82 thru 94), I had one of the first (Home) Sat Dishes in 1988. It was E*. Not only the first! It was the only service for years! Once back here in the states I started with cable, then in 2001 I found that Dish was available to me and jumped to get it. It's not the only service...BUT, It's still the best! Why? Because HDTV and HD PROGRAMING is still very young. Your all like a bunch of kids on Christmas morning...I want, I want! Grow up and wait!
> Panasonic HD tube 1080i
> 622 and 722
> in SOCAL (Southern California)


Yeah, I was an Echostar big dish customer in 1988. But I once had a great 1954 Nash. E* could end up being another Nash.


----------



## Richard King

Let's just start a brand new "Stupid Analogy Thread" and see how crazy they can get. I also had a Echostar big dish, and infact installed several for customers. I installed many more Toshiba systems than Echostar systems though. I owned a Toshiba TRX-2200 with a 10' Unimesh perf dish. I wish that system was still practical, but time marches on. As it does Dish will not be left behind, nor will it be renamed Nash.


----------



## phrelin

Richard King said:


> Let's just start a brand new "Stupid Analogy Thread" and see how crazy they can get. I also had a Echostar big dish, and infact installed several for customers. I installed many more Toshiba systems than Echostar systems though. I owned a Toshiba TRX-2200 with a 10' Unimesh perf dish. I wish that system was still practical, but time marches on. As it does Dish will not be left behind, nor will it be renamed Nash.


Don't get me wrong, I bought an Ambassador Station Wagon when they became American Motors, and I'll stick with Echostar...or Dish Network...or AT&T... as long as the Echostar hardware remains generally the best available, as it is today. But sometimes I think my brand loyalty goes a bit too far.


----------



## Ressurrector

Sup all new to this forum and HD. Just did the receiver upgrade to the vip 722 DVR from E* the other day. Overall I am pretty impressed with "most" of the content for their HD. BUT then again I have no basis of comparison for HD do I? no digital cable where I am. No HDTV locals OTA you can get. Its this or nothing. E* DOES have billing down to a science it would seem...50 here 200 there 39 to enable blah blah blah..... What I find interesting is how many of the HD or should I say supposed HD channels just have a loop of like 2 shows or films everyday till the next day.. Besides the espn's and movie and news channels seems there is more than a few "loopers" on the menu. I REALLY would like USA and SCIFI but I am sure E* WILL get them when is the only question. I have noticed a few "parlor tricks" on certain channels I see yall mentioning like "stretching" "upconverting" and other BS here and there. I dunno but if they can get everybody's locals in HD in the bag for the first half of 08 I think many will be very happy. I mean if you can get all major networks..fox,abc,nbc,cbs,cw,etc..AND HBO in HD what more can you ask for from a TV right? Though the MPIAA and RIAA would have a heart attack E* COULD make the 622-722 DVR's able to send their content to the PC through ethernet for further data storage of recorded shows.............

wait............


WAIT FOR IT.....................


"DISH DVR ETHERNET TRANSFER TO PC FEE.........$5.99 (MONTHLY)


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> With all due respect, I find the question insulting.
> If you really believe E* will not add ANY HD in 2008 you should leave now.
> 
> Go to D* or go to cable ... and if you're already gone please stop insulting E* customers with such comments.


E* retention dept. could use a guy like you:lol:

While i think it is silly to think that E* wont add any this year...but like you so often ask...show us some proof otherwise...i.e....channel names promised, number of channels promised? We were told by years end...and nothing....so if they want to joke about E* not adding any for a year ...let them...then when they do..you can say "i told you so"...but until then...it's fair game.



> Because HDTV and HD PROGRAMING is still very young. Your all like a bunch of kids on Christmas morning...I want, I want! Grow up and wait!


Actually...kids at Christmas get presents...Charlie clause forgot to come this Christmas  Of course people want more..why cant they be upset that they went with the "HD leader", and are now not getting HD content that is out there at D*, and even now, cable companies?


----------



## phrelin

And I still believe I am paying that $20 per month for a bit of an open-ended promise of more and soon. I'm just not sure what the promise is.... That makes me feel a bit of a fool. Not exactly Charlie's fault, but its more than just irritating.


----------



## Richard King

phrelin said:


> Don't get me wrong, I bought an Ambassador Station Wagon when they became American Motors, and I'll stick with Echostar...or Dish Network...or AT&T... as long as the Echostar hardware remains generally the best available, as it is today. But sometimes I think my brand loyalty goes a bit too far.


I'd rather have had an AMX myself. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_AMX


----------



## Stewart Vernon

On a related note to the "no new HD"... if this week is any indication, we may have actually lost some HD...

See my thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1364698#post1364698

It would appear UniversalHD is now showing commercial breaks in their movies, which really cuts down on the value of this channel. Although I usually do not vote to take down one channel in favor of another... if UniversalHD is no longer going to show uncut movies, I would vote to swap it out for the tandem of USAHD and SciFiHD since UniversalHD will be an unnecessary channel to have now that it will be no different than those two.


----------



## texaswolf

great...i have some movies set to record too...looks like i will have to check that out


----------



## FogCutter

Looks like we'll have to wait for CES for the new HD channels. Guess it will give Charlie something to announce during the show. Oh well. His company, he can have some fun with it now and then if he wants to.

It would be OK with me if he turns on SciFi HD and doesn't mention it until CES. I won't say a word. Then we both win.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> great...i have some movies set to record too...looks like i will have to check that out


I had recorded Last Action Hero, which is where I noticed the commercial breaks. I'll have to check the rest of my timers as I know I had at least one more thing set to record later in the week.


----------



## texaswolf

DAMN....i just recorded it today...but haven't checked it yet


----------



## The Sandman

Thinking about the title to this discussion - still no new hd - it is getting pretty tough to read the almost weekly news about all of the new hd being added by directv - including all of the new local markets and things. we ain't getting nada!

Gonna take dish a real long time to make up all of this ground i fear. If i don't here anything good in the next week, it is time to move i think.

Yeah, i know its not their fault (at least not all of it), but that doesn't do me or you any good to know that, we aren't getting the new channels. and of course i can always change back next year of so - no real biggie. 

come on dish tell us something already.


----------



## jrb531

HDMe said:


> On a related note to the "no new HD"... if this week is any indication, we may have actually lost some HD...
> 
> See my thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1364698#post1364698
> 
> It would appear UniversalHD is now showing commercial breaks in their movies, which really cuts down on the value of this channel. Although I usually do not vote to take down one channel in favor of another... if UniversalHD is no longer going to show uncut movies, I would vote to swap it out for the tandem of USAHD and SciFiHD since UniversalHD will be an unnecessary channel to have now that it will be no different than those two.


Ack!

Commercials... I hate them.

-JB


----------



## LinkNuc

This is starting to stink, at parents (they have Comcast) and they havee ALL of teh above and MORE, now we still have a few more HD channels but with the price increase and the cable internet packages I may be gonzo in 08


----------



## The Sandman

They aren't making it easy to stay with them I might add.


----------



## phrelin

HDMe said:


> On a related note to the "no new HD"... if this week is any indication, we may have actually lost some HD...
> 
> See my thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1364698#post1364698
> 
> It would appear UniversalHD is now showing commercial breaks in their movies, which really cuts down on the value of this channel. Although I usually do not vote to take down one channel in favor of another... if UniversalHD is no longer going to show uncut movies, I would vote to swap it out for the tandem of USAHD and SciFiHD since UniversalHD will be an unnecessary channel to have now that it will be no different than those two.


Well, now. I haven't seen any commercials on it yet. But if there is nothing else that can be said for NBC-Universal, they are a GE company - no double digit revenue growth in the last quarter could mean unemployment for top executives. Or they might sell it to a food conglomerate.

Makes sense though. Like a local, unaffiliated tv station except in HD. Old movies, syndicated shows. Soon there'll be paid programming.

But I'm still going to record Touching Evil, Kidnapped, Jericho (season 1) and Saturday Night Lights (season 1) all premiering this coming week.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

phrelin said:


> Well, now. I haven't seen any commercials on it yet.


I've seen a thread on AVS Forums about this too... someone else was watching the Robocop movies and saw commercials, so at least I know it wasn't just me 



phrelin said:


> But I'm still going to record Touching Evil, Kidnapped, Jericho (season 1) and Saturday Night Lights (season 1) all premiering this coming week.


You should be fine with TV shows, since those already had commercials anyway. If I was going to record some HD made-for-TV stuff then that wouldn't be a problem to me.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I checked it several times today, every movie and tv show now has commercials.
YOU knew it was going to happen, one day.


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> I've seen a thread on AVS Forums about this too... someone else was watching the Robocop movies and saw commercials, so at least I know it wasn't just me
> 
> You should be fine with TV shows, since those already had commercials anyway. If I was going to record some HD made-for-TV stuff then that wouldn't be a problem to me.


I was watching Last Action Hero, and was hoping not to see any commercials, but then it happened...at least it wasn't every 1o min...i think it was at least 25 min into it before i seen the first one...not that it makes it a recording option anymore...


----------



## Vidfreek

Yep saw the commercials the other day during Robocop, Robocop WAS the unrated version though it just had that crap in between, so the movies havent changed but I'm probably wont record anything from there now

I'm stuck with Dish for another year or so, so I dont have much of a choice with staying or leaving, hell even my local cable provider (Armstrong Cable) added Scifi and USA in HD and they have ALWAYS been behind everyone else, such a shame, get on the STICK DISH!


----------



## TBoneit

Well you can change back to dish next year but you'd have to pay the penalty to DirecTV for breaking a two (2) year commitment and then you'd be returning as a returning customer with different options and costs than a new customer has.


----------



## pgski

rey_1178 said:


> let me tell my fellow e customers a recent story. i decided to experiment with d* 2 months ago. got their latest hd dvr and all their new hd programing with the new 5 lnb dish etc,etc. just 1 hour of having this service i ran to cancel the whole thing. this experiment cost $400.00 but it answered many of my questions. when i saw how long it takes to switch from one channel to another it drove me crazy. the hd picture had lots of pixels compared to the smooth hd of e* plus the dvr was a pain to program and lacked alot of features compared to the vip622. so i stayed with e*. even though i'm very upset with e* for not being in tune more with their customers on HD i really don't see any place that is better to go to:nono2:
> 
> But if they don't fix this soon and others continue to improve their hardware and programming well who knows. In the mean time i suggest we stay put and make it loud and clear to charlie what we want over and over again:eek2:


I completely agree with how crappy the Direct HD picture is. I am a firefighter and my station has Direct HD service. I have Dish HD at my house. The Dish HD PQ is 10X better than Direct. So if everyone want to watch crappy HD go ahead and go to Direct. Sorry but more doesn't mean better. I would rather see a quality picture.


----------



## The Sandman

TBoneit said:


> Well you can change back to dish next year but you'd have to pay the penalty to DirecTV for breaking a two (2) year commitment and then you'd be returning as a returning customer with different options and costs than a new customer has.


If I switch I would wait until my term is up and re-evaluate again. I don't see what DISH could do that would be so compelling during the next two years that I would feel I had to switch back - and in the slight chance I did, I would. For sure, I would leave my 2 DN dishes on the roof, and wiring down the side of my house, so moving back would be easy.

I mean I guess I don't have the same degree of 'blind loyalty' to any one of these companies - they are what they are and no more than that. When I read the comments by the ultimate loyalists on both sides, I can't help but feel sorry for those folks to tell you the truth. Changing services is no real big deal really.


----------



## texaswolf

pgski said:


> I completely agree with how crappy the Direct HD picture is. I am a firefighter and my station has Direct HD service. I have Dish HD at my house. The Dish HD PQ is 10X better than Direct. So if everyone want to watch crappy HD go ahead and go to Direct. Sorry but more doesn't mean better. I would rather see a quality picture.


yeah my work has D* also and it looks like crap for some reason, however at my friends house and parents house, it looks tons better, he does have a big dlp,and they have regular SD..vs works crappy tv's...does the firehouse have an HDTV set up? maybe the signal isn't good? or the TV?


----------



## msmith198025

pgski said:


> I completely agree with how crappy the Direct HD picture is. I am a firefighter and my station has Direct HD service. I have Dish HD at my house. The Dish HD PQ is 10X better than Direct. So if everyone want to watch crappy HD go ahead and go to Direct. Sorry but more doesn't mean better. I would rather see a quality picture.


I can see someone having a preference of one over the other. There are many factors that can effect PQ in any given situation, and heck some people just perceive PQ differently. However the fact that you stated that the PQ is TEN times better leads me to believe that you are either exagerrating quite a bit or that something is seriously wrong with how it is set up. Can you give us a little more info?


----------



## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> yeah my work has D* also and it looks like crap for some reason, however at my friends house and parents house, it looks tons better, he does have a big dlp,and they have regular SD..vs works crappy tv's...does the firehouse have an HDTV set up? maybe the signal isn't good? or the TV?


Its probably hooked up through composite! lol


----------



## texaswolf

msmith198025 said:


> Its probably hooked up through composite! lol


thats what i'm thinking, or the setup is messed up, or the tv is very old...my brother is a firefighter, and they get kinda screwed when it comes to tv's and kitchen stuff...which to me is stupid...those guys should get top stuff considering what they do and the 24 hour shifts they have to spend up there away form the fam....but thats another subject...i know

could also be location?


----------



## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> thats what i'm thinking, or the setup is messed up, or the tv is very old...my brother is a firefighter, and they get kinda screwed when it comes to tv's and kitchen stuff...which to me is stupid...those guys should get top stuff considering what they do and the 24 hour shifts they have to spend up there away form the fam....but thats another subject...i know
> 
> could also be location?


I would doubt it is actual location. Sat signal is pretty much a sat signal. If it were weak it might drop out a bit, but as far as what i consider actual picture quality, I cant see that having much effect.

My guess is somewhere in the first part of your post. Wrong/bad connection, or old(maybe even SD) tv. Something is fishy for sure.


----------



## texaswolf

is CES aired on TV at all, or is the info from there come out after it's announced.


----------



## tnsprin

texaswolf said:


> is CES aired on TV at all, or is the info from there come out after it's announced.


Most years some of it is shown on various networks, but certainly not all of it. To many different things going on.


----------



## jsray2

He will be on the CNBC show Closing Bell Monday around 3:00pm EST.
Maybe he will talk about upcoming plans.


----------



## Jim5506

texaswolf said:


> is CES aired on TV at all, or is the info from there come out after it's announced.


CES will be on G4. Check your local listings.


----------



## whatchel1

jsray2 said:


> He will be on the CNBC show Closing Bell Monday around 3:00pm EST.
> Maybe he will talk about upcoming plans.


There are 2 closing bells on Mon. 3 & 4 EST. Do you know if it's the 1st or 2nd.? I've set event for both.


----------



## whatchel1

[Satellite Today - 1-3-08] Sea Launch will make its next attempt to launch the Thuraya-3 satellite Jan. 15, Sea Launch announced.
Sea Launch attempted to conduct the mission, the first since the launch operator suffered a failure in January 2007, in November, but the effort was unsuccessful due to unusually strong currents at the launch site. Sea Launch has increased power and fuel capabilities on its launch platform and evaluated the use of existing margins on identified launch parameters in order to enhance its potential to perform the mission.
Thuraya-3, designed by the Boeing Co., will provide a range of mobile voice and data services over large geographic regions. Thuraya Satellite Communications Co. will expand commercially into the Asia-Pacific market when Turaya-3 becomes operational.


----------



## davethestalker

Jim5506 said:


> CES will be on G4. Check your local listings.


This "coverage" is going to be a train wreck. I so miss TechTV.


----------



## texaswolf

whatchel1 said:


> [Satellite Today - 1-3-08] Sea Launch will make its next attempt to launch the Thuraya-3 satellite Jan. 15, Sea Launch announced.
> Sea Launch attempted to conduct the mission, the first since the launch operator suffered a failure in January 2007, in November, but the effort was unsuccessful due to unusually strong currents at the launch site. Sea Launch has increased power and fuel capabilities on its launch platform and evaluated the use of existing margins on identified launch parameters in order to enhance its potential to perform the mission.
> Thuraya-3, designed by the Boeing Co., will provide a range of mobile voice and data services over large geographic regions. Thuraya Satellite Communications Co. will expand commercially into the Asia-Pacific market when Turaya-3 becomes operational.


how far down the list is the E* sat?



> This "coverage" is going to be a train wreck. I so miss TechTV.


me too


----------



## jrb531

The Sandman said:


> They aren't making it easy to stay with them I might add.


Well they are not raising the current $20 HD Package that we now pay more than D* for less channels.

I guess Dish thinks we should be happy about that 

-JB


----------



## whatchel1

texaswolf said:


> how far down the list is the E* sat?


Lyngsat is now showing that there is an Estimated launch date of March now (AMC 14). It was just giving a ? for the launch date.


----------



## jrb531

pgski said:


> I completely agree with how crappy the Direct HD picture is. I am a firefighter and my station has Direct HD service. I have Dish HD at my house. The Dish HD PQ is 10X better than Direct. So if everyone want to watch crappy HD go ahead and go to Direct. Sorry but more doesn't mean better. I would rather see a quality picture.


Dish HD is "ten times" better? 

I know we all like to stretch things some when we are trying to make a point but 10x???

This does not say much for Dish then because I feel that most of the HD is pretty crappy. Many of my upconverted DVD's look better!

Dish has everything compressed to all hell because of their lack of room on the sats. While I'll not pretend to have seen D*'s HD I question how it can be any worse than Dish's considering that have so much more room for HD now.

Can anyone do an "objective" comparision because 10 times just is not objective in my book 

-JB


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> Dish HD is "ten times" better?
> 
> I know we all like to stretch things some when we are trying to make a point but 10x???
> 
> This does not say much for Dish then because I feel that most of the HD is pretty crappy. Many of my upconverted DVD's look better!
> 
> Dish has everything compressed to all hell because of their lack of room on the sats. While I'll not pretend to have seen D*'s HD I question how it can be any worse than Dish's considering that have so much more room for HD now.
> 
> Can anyone do an "objective" comparision because 10 times just is not objective in my book
> 
> -JB


yeah, your right, my upconverted DVD's look just as good if not better than a lot of the movie channels....and when i put in an HDDVD....forget about it.


----------



## James Long

whatchel1 said:


> texaswolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> how far down the list is the E* sat?
> 
> 
> 
> Lyngsat is now showing that there is an Estimated launch date of March now (AMC 14). It was just giving a ? for the launch date.
Click to expand...

AMC-14 is a second satellite recently announced for 61.5° that should be online by May 15th to replace E3. (IIRC, it's launch has been delayed for at least a year for other reasons, but no target location or task was given until recently.)

The Sea Launch delayed satellite is E-11, which is going to 110° to replace E8 and was supposed to be online December 15th.


----------



## TBoneit

The Sandman said:


> If I switch I would wait until my term is up and re-evaluate again. I don't see what DISH could do that would be so compelling during the next two years that I would feel I had to switch back - and in the slight chance I did, I would. For sure, I would leave my 2 DN dishes on the roof, and wiring down the side of my house, so moving back would be easy.
> 
> I mean I guess I don't have the same degree of 'blind loyalty' to any one of these companies - they are what they are and no more than that. When I read the comments by the ultimate loyalists on both sides, I can't help but feel sorry for those folks to tell you the truth. Changing services is no real big deal really.


Well I guess you've been lucky as I have been lucky with service calls.

However reading all the different threads about botched installs for both services makes me think.


----------



## Ressurrector

texaswolf said:


> yeah, your right, my upconverted DVD's look just as good if not better than a lot of the movie channels....and when i put in an HDDVD....forget about it.


lol upconversion........what a joke I just grabbed a philips DVD that could do it and I saw NO improvements at all....not at 720p...1080i nothing... the only thing I could tell was scan lines where some what less apparent but like if you turned your head away from the set then back again fast you could see them for just a sec. I REALLY disagree with this statement cause the real hd movie channels like hbo and max own the snot out of upconverted dvd's...... Sorry I just don't see the "depth" on upconvert dvd's

p.s. hd-dvd just died yesterday when warner signed to blu-ray LOL BUT I will give you 20 bucks for that player if you wanna upgrade to blu-ray


----------



## Henry

Ressurrector said:


> p.s. hd-dvd just died yesterday when warner signed to blu-ray LOL BUT I will give you 20 bucks for that player if you wanna upgrade to blu-ray


Play nice, Res. :nono:


----------



## The Sandman

TBoneit said:


> Well I guess you've been lucky as I have been lucky with service calls.
> 
> However reading all the different threads about botched installs for both services makes me think.


When I read the posts by customers that are so blindly loyal that they defend the mistakes the company has made (true for all the companies) I only laugh.

Like switching from one to another is a crime. How dramatic some make it.


----------



## The Sandman

Can someone kindly post or PM me the list of 76 NATIONAL HD channels that E* is now claiming?

Doesn't add up I don't think.


----------



## klegg

The Sandman said:


> Can someone kindly post or PM me the list of 76 NATIONAL HD channels that E* is now claiming?
> 
> Doesn't add up I don't think.


Does it really bother you THAT much??? Sheesh...


----------



## The Sandman

Since I get only about 40, yes it does.


----------



## bbexperience

Ressurrector said:


> lol upconversion........what a joke I just grabbed a philips DVD that could do it and I saw NO improvements at all....not at 720p...1080i nothing... the only thing I could tell was scan lines where some what less apparent but like if you turned your head away from the set then back again fast you could see them for just a sec. I REALLY disagree with this statement cause the real hd movie channels like hbo and max own the snot out of upconverted dvd's...... Sorry I just don't see the "depth" on upconvert dvd's


I think it may be your player. I have a Sony 5-disc upconverting player that makes standard DVDs look great.


----------



## texaswolf

Ressurrector said:


> lol upconversion........what a joke I just grabbed a philips DVD that could do it and I saw NO improvements at all....not at 720p...1080i nothing... the only thing I could tell was scan lines where some what less apparent but like if you turned your head away from the set then back again fast you could see them for just a sec. I REALLY disagree with this statement cause the real hd movie channels like hbo and max own the snot out of upconverted dvd's...... Sorry I just don't see the "depth" on upconvert dvd's
> 
> p.s. hd-dvd just died yesterday when warner signed to blu-ray LOL BUT I will give you 20 bucks for that player if you wanna upgrade to blu-ray


I'm talking about putting a regular DVD into an HD or BR player...and yes...it does looks better most of the time, Star Wars episode II for example...playing on a premium, i recorded it, popped in my disc, and went back and forth. Friends and I were testing the "upconversion" the HD/BR players claimed....and it looked much better...So if you have a BR player...which i assume you do, with all your yacking about HDdvd....i would suggest you take a regular dvd of a movie you see on HBO, and try it out...some regular movies arn't that different, but on ones with special effects...any fool can see the difference, it was clear as day....now why you bought an upconversion, i have no idea...my brother in law did that too, and it isn't even close...of course he may have a cheaper one, who knows.

The funny thing is, you think all HD disc are going to stop working if the HDdvd goes under....Why you are so happy that people would have no other choice than to spend $300+ just for a player baffles me...those of us who grabbed an HD player cheap and have been enjoying HD movies for a while, will still enjoy those disc...we dont have to buy them on BR...what most of us payed for an HD player was pretty close to what you payed for an upconversion...i hope the war continues...having both players, im good to go...i just want better price knock offs for all of us. but this is all in the HD/br thread not here...but like i said...try a dvd on an *HD player*...then come back with some facts.

maybe start a poll for people to vote on it...you may surprised


----------



## trolane

payed for upconvert?
last i bought an upconvert hdmi output dvd player it only costed $50.
hell of alot less than some $300 hd-dvd player.

HD usually looks damn good for me on Dish. I run it 1080i on a 19" lcd.


----------



## texaswolf

trolane said:


> payed for upconvert?
> last i bought an upconvert hdmi output dvd player it only costed $50.
> hell of alot less than some $300 hd-dvd player.
> 
> HD usually looks damn good for me on Dish. I run it 1080i on a 19" lcd.


your confused...BR players run $300....you can get an HD for $100+, depending on deals.

Yes it does look good on premiums, but the discussion was how much better it looked upconverted from a player. Trust me I have a ton of movies recored to my external from all 4 premiums, but ones that are "major special effects" movies...Matrix, Transformers, ect...i get on HD


----------



## jrb531

Upconverting players are good enough for most recordings but I will agree that the biggies need full HD treatment.

I'm just not buying any HD-DVD player either HD-DVD or Sonys Blu-Scam until both the movies drop to the same range as present DVD's and the players drop under $100. If HD-DVD fails we'll be stuck with $300 Blu-Scams for a long time.

Until then my library of DVD's look fantastic upconverted to my 50" screen and many times much better than "some" of the overcompressed Dish HD channels.

-JB

P.S. It says alot that both sides are willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to bribe studios instead of just dropping the prices of the players.


----------



## Nick Graham

I just put in the order to switch to DirecTV today. I was holding out until CES to see if Dish put any new channels up (even just USA and Sci-Fi would have sufficed). I liked getting my locals over satellite, but the signal was pretty crappy anyway, and all my locals are black for about 60 seconds before they actually come on, so that was always a nuisance.


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> Upconverting players are good enough for most recordings but I will agree that the biggies need full HD treatment.
> 
> I'm just not buying any HD-DVD player either HD-DVD or Sonys Blu-Scam until both the movies drop to the same range as present DVD's and the players drop under $100. If HD-DVD fails we'll be stuck with $300 Blu-Scams for a long time.
> 
> Until then my library of DVD's look fantastic upconverted to my 50" screen and many times much better than "some" of the overcompressed Dish HD channels.
> 
> -JB
> 
> P.S. It says alot that both sides are willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to bribe studios instead of just dropping the prices of the players.


if you watch deals you can find the HD-a2 for $99...and Amazon always has $19.99 HD/BR movies, with buy on get one free deal on some of them...we just picked up all the Harry Potters, Serenity, and Backdraft HD's for $40...even if HD goes under, you'll get a player cheap and a lot of your fav's on HD until then, wont have to buy them when they come out on BR...and get a great upconverter.

just a thought


----------



## GrumpyBear

I am looking at a HD-A2 just for that reason, its afforable, I don't have an upscaler yet, an Blu-Ray will be over 300 for some time to come. I was going to go A3, if the price was right, but they bowed down and now support no upscaling on standard Sony DVD's, other Movie company's may follow suit, and allow no upscaling on a version of a movie they have on HighDef. Would hate to buy a New DvD and then find out I can't upscale it. There are some HD movies I do want, and I can always order from England, the HD-DVD movies, that I can't get here in the US, as the Movie Studio is Blu-Ray exclusive. I still win


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> I am looking at a HD-A2 just for that reason, its afforable, I don't have an upscaler yet, an Blu-Ray will be over 300 for some time to come. I was going to go A3, if the price was right, but they bowed down and now support no upscaling on standard Sony DVD's, other Movie company's may follow suit, and allow no upscaling on a version of a movie they have on HighDef. Would hate to buy a New DvD and then find out I can't upscale it. There are some HD movies I do want, and I can always order from England, the HD-DVD movies, that I can't get here in the US, as the Movie Studio is Blu-Ray exclusive. I still win


exactly...like i said...if it ends...HD movies wont melt and never be able to be viewed again...I'll continue to watch all of mine well after then.


----------



## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> exactly...like i said...if it ends...HD movies wont melt and never be able to be viewed again...I'll continue to watch all of mine well after then.


No they WILL melt! Didnt you read the fine print????


----------



## texaswolf

msmith198025 said:


> No they WILL melt! Didnt you read the fine print????


Was that the part under "Your mission should you choose to accept it"?:lol:


----------



## whatchel1

James Long said:


> AMC-14 is a second satellite recently announced for 61.5° that should be online by May 15th to replace E3. (IIRC, it's launch has been delayed for at least a year for other reasons, but no target location or task was given until recently.)
> 
> The Sea Launch delayed satellite is E-11, which is going to 110° to replace E8 and was supposed to be online December 15th.


According to Gunter's Space Page AMC-14 isn't set to occupy that slot. It is true that Lyngsat shows that it is to go there. So there is conflicting info between the 2 sources.


----------



## James Long

whatchel1 said:


> According to Gunter's Space Page AMC-14 isn't set to occupy that slot. It is true that Lyngsat shows that it is to go there. So there is conflicting info between the 2 sources.


Gunter is wrong ...
Dish Files to Launch AMC-14 to 61.5 W


----------



## jrb531

texaswolf said:


> if you watch deals you can find the HD-a2 for $99...and Amazon always has $19.99 HD/BR movies, with buy on get one free deal on some of them...we just picked up all the Harry Potters, Serenity, and Backdraft HD's for $40...even if HD goes under, you'll get a player cheap and a lot of your fav's on HD until then, wont have to buy them when they come out on BR...and get a great upconverter.
> 
> just a thought


I have been looking and I missed out on the great clearance sale. It sure looks like Blu-scam is going to win. Now will Sony do the right thing and lower prices to allow mass penetration? I say they will milk us for all it's worth as they try and force PS3's.

Ask yourself this question. If Sony was unwilling to lower Blu-Scam prices when they had "heavy" competition from HD-DVD then what makes you think they will lower prices once that competition is gone?

All those 2 for 1 deals are due to the competition between Blu-Scam and HD-DVD and once that is over so do the deals.

I guess, to me, the question is this:

If I can buy a DVD for $10 and the HD version is $20 is it worth twice the price?

To me the answer is no for most movies. Maybe a LOTR or other "epic" type movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... NOPE!

-JB


----------



## jrb531

texaswolf said:


> exactly...like i said...if it ends...HD movies wont melt and never be able to be viewed again...I'll continue to watch all of mine well after then.


Yeah but if your player melts then how to buy another?

For most people the library is worth more than the player.

-JB


----------



## Aliens

trolane said:


> HD usually looks damn good for me on Dish. I run it 1080i on a 19" lcd.


Even Joan Rivers would look good on a 19" screen.


----------



## jrb531

Aliens said:


> Even Joan Rivers would look good on a 19" screen.


Now lets not get crazy here LOL!

-JB

P.S. Maybe a 5"?


----------



## TBoneit

texaswolf said:


> exactly...like i said...if it ends...HD movies wont melt and never be able to be viewed again...I'll continue to watch all of mine well after then.


How many are still able to watch their old RCA videodiscs? The ones that used a needle to track the groove on the discs.

How much support nowdays for Laserdisc?

What happens to the HD movies when the player dies and can not be replaced?

The smaller form factor won. Sooner or later any computer storage media will be unusable. I include DVDs and CDs. Permanent as far a viewability would be things like Books and stone tablets as far as still being viewable with no viewing special hardware or software needed. Not that they can't be destroyed. Even then without the Rosetta stone some would still be gibberish.


----------



## TBoneit

jrb531 said:


> Snipped
> 
> If I can buy a DVD for $10 and the HD version is $20 is it worth twice the price?
> 
> To me the answer is no for most movies. Maybe a LOTR or other "epic" type movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... NOPE!
> 
> -JB


Why would you even buy "movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... " when Video rental stores or Netflix is around?


----------



## texaswolf

I use my External drive for HD movies i watch every once in awhile...but the "epic" ones i buy...you can't beat the quality difference....once we got the 4 premium HD's and the external, we canceled our Netflix...was just much easier to do the record option.


----------



## jrb531

TBoneit said:


> Why would you even buy "movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... " when Video rental stores or Netflix is around?


Well I try not to but it's kind of funny how even the movies you do think you'll watch over and over end up collecting dust. Netflix has saved me a ton of money but I think we all still impulse buy from time to time and it's easier to swallow a $10 DVD than it is a $20 HD-DVD.

-JB


----------



## jrb531

texaswolf said:


> I use my External drive for HD movies i watch every once in awhile...but the "epic" ones i buy...you can't beat the quality difference....once we got the 4 premium HD's and the external, we canceled our Netflix...was just much easier to do the record option.


I'd love this as an option but until I can pick from thousands of movies to record I have to keep netflix. The instant view is great also. I hooked up my compter to my TV and when I have nothing to watch I just pop onto Netflix and pick an instant movie. Sure the quality's not the same as a DVD but for tv shows and old movies who cares 

-JB


----------



## James Long

Just a reminder ... this isn't a Blu-Ray forum.
Stay on topic!


----------



## TBoneit

Yup, I've got movies on the shelf I bought based on the jacket blurbs. They looked promising, good story idea, actors etc. The actuality was at best pitiful.

I've been meaning to try the Netflix instant view. It wouldn't be hard. My TV is my computer monitor. The only drawback would be they would be using the TV sound system instead of the surround sound system.


----------



## TechnoCat

TBoneit said:


> How many are still able to watch their old RCA videodiscs? The ones that used a needle to track the groove on the discs.
> 
> How much support nowdays for Laserdisc?


I still use my laserdisc player. It predated DVDs by several years, and I have quite a few really cool discs that never came out for DVD.

Unfortunately, it looks crappy on a large HD TV.


----------



## Paul Secic

jrb531 said:


> I have been looking and I missed out on the great clearance sale. It sure looks like Blu-scam is going to win. Now will Sony do the right thing and lower prices to allow mass penetration? I say they will milk us for all it's worth as they try and force PS3's.
> 
> Ask yourself this question. If Sony was unwilling to lower Blu-Scam prices when they had "heavy" competition from HD-DVD then what makes you think they will lower prices once that competition is gone?
> 
> All those 2 for 1 deals are due to the competition between Blu-Scam and HD-DVD and once that is over so do the deals.
> 
> I guess, to me, the question is this:
> 
> If I can buy a DVD for $10 and the HD version is $20 is it worth twice the price?
> 
> To me the answer is no for most movies. Maybe a LOTR or other "epic" type movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... NOPE!
> 
> -JB


A friend of mine bought a HD set & got Dish in 2005 & didn't subscribe to any HD package at all, and still doesn't. He subs to AT 100. He's a high school principle. I don't understand why he bought an HD set & watching STRETCH O RAMA. Now he's ready to buy another HD set.

GEEZ!


----------



## jrb531

Paul Secic said:


> A friend of mine bought a HD set & got Dish in 2005 & didn't subscribe to any HD package at all, and still doesn't. He subs to AT 100. He's a high school principle. I don't understand why he bought an HD set & watching STRETCH O RAMA. Now he's ready to buy another HD set.
> 
> GEEZ!


I had an HD set for years without HD. I bought it because I wanted to watch my DVD's in widescreen. It's looks great with DVD's!

I then got a 811 to try out HD and ended up never watching HD because I was so addicted to DVR's. I tried just channel hopping but the stuff I wanted to watch was seldom on when I wanted to watch TV so I ended up watching my 508 as the HD sat unused.

Now there is much more content in HD and the 622/722 allows me to record in HD. I now have 4 HD sets in the house and I want to add more 622/722's but that DVR fee keeps me from doing so. I keep asking myself why Dish would want to lock people like myself out of further HD sets. They must think that they are forcing more people to pay the rip off fees than people like myself that just take a pass.

I would get another 622/722 tommorow if I did not have to pay another $6 DVR fee on top of the $6 rental. While $12 may not seem like alot for many of you. I do not watch much TV and adding another HD DVR would only be for convienence. I simple cannot justify another $144 a year just to be able to watch HD in another room. $72 I could swallow (rental fee) but not $144.

So for now I stay with my 622 and 501. Very soon I will have to make a choice I am putting off. I'm keeping my options open but FIOS is coming to Chicago soon and with D* I have some decisions to make.

I'd like to stay with Dish but I will not be cheated even if it's only $6 a month.

-JB


----------



## wmj5

directv since 1995: I bought a sony dvd player DVP-NS77H, it is a upscale 1080P hdmi output, componet hookup and coaxal digital cord, the hole 9 yrds. I couldn't ask for a better picture, I got at cc for $89.95.


----------



## jimb

jrb531 said:


> I'd like to stay with Dish but I will not be cheated even if it's only $6 a month.
> 
> -JB


You're not being cheated, based on the rumors, E* lost the lawsuit to TIVO causing them to collect $6 a month from us and they might be turning some or all that money over directly to TIVO. Nobody from E* will confirm this because they can't (I think). It would make sense since we get so little feedback from E* when people ask about why that charge is there. I pay it even on my purchased 722 which makes no sense, unless the above is true.


----------



## James Long

E* has not paid Tivo (yet). They have set aside the money to pay based on the ast court loss (which is being appealed). Putting the $6 toward that potential expense would be one plae that money is going.

But bills don't work that way anyways. E* pays people, E* collects from people. They set their rates and fees in a way that they can collect enough to pay the people they need to pay AND invest in their future. It isn't a specific "DVR TAX" on your bill going to a separate account.


----------



## Paul Secic

jrb531 said:


> I have been looking and I missed out on the great clearance sale. It sure looks like Blu-scam is going to win. Now will Sony do the right thing and lower prices to allow mass penetration? I say they will milk us for all it's worth as they try and force PS3's.
> 
> Ask yourself this question. If Sony was unwilling to lower Blu-Scam prices when they had "heavy" competition from HD-DVD then what makes you think they will lower prices once that competition is gone?
> 
> All those 2 for 1 deals are due to the competition between Blu-Scam and HD-DVD and once that is over so do the deals.
> 
> I guess, to me, the question is this:
> 
> If I can buy a DVD for $10 and the HD version is $20 is it worth twice the price?
> 
> To me the answer is no for most movies. Maybe a LOTR or other "epic" type movies then maybe but to things you watch once and seldom if ever again.... NOPE!
> 
> -JB


I'm waiting for a format to die, AKA Betamax. However I would love to see CARS in HD. CARS is on ENCORE now, but no HD on ENCORE. I cancelled STARZ to get HD.


----------



## TBoneit

TechnoCat said:


> I still use my laserdisc player. It predated DVDs by several years, and I have quite a few really cool discs that never came out for DVD.
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks crappy on a large HD TV.


Well if the Laserdiscs are things wou never expect to see on DVD or in a HD format then I'd capture them and make your own DVD. They can often be filtered to look better than the source. I don't know what player you use. From my research in the past some Laserdisc players output a better image than others.

Make a DVD and play them on a upscaling DVD player. They could end up looking better than playing direct.

Slight sharpen, Noise reduction, color correction etc. If needed of course.

You can find messages helpful forum member and tutorials for that over on www.videohelp.com along with a tools database that can help find free to shareware to high powered commercial payware. Not to mention user reviews on different video related hardware

Some of the free software is pretty good. Capturing, filtering, encoders, DVD authoring, Disc burning software and more.

Some of what I use I bought such as TMPGEnc software, Some such as the DVD burning software is a freebie (imgburn)

Cheers


----------



## Ressurrector

TechnoCat said:


> I still use my laserdisc player. It predated DVDs by several years, and I have quite a few really cool discs that never came out for DVD.
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks crappy on a large HD TV.


I had one as well and ya know people didn't appreciate them really......... The biggest pain IMHO was "flipping the disc" Other then that I don't see alotta difference in them and dvd's Both digital sound and picture ALL DVD was is a smaller more refined laserdisc thats it

now minidisc?? there is something the industry REALLY slept on


----------



## jrb531

Ressurrector said:


> I had one as well and ya know people didn't appreciate them really......... The biggest pain IMHO was "flipping the disc" Other then that I don't see alotta difference in them and dvd's Both digital sound and picture ALL DVD was is a smaller more refined laserdisc thats it
> 
> now minidisc?? there is something the industry REALLY slept on


Laserdisc is to DVD as Audio CD's are to MP3's (simplified but basically correct)

Laserdisc are basically uncompressed just as CD's are

The technology to compress the data allowed the DVD and Mp3's

Both DVD's and MP3's lose "some" data in the compression but if done correctly it's hard to tell the difference.

In theory a Laserdisc and CD "could" have the better recording but most people feel the slight tradeoff (99% of us cannot tell) is well worth being able to fit more data into smaller spaces.

Yes there are other technical changes so I'm sure some of you will correct this post 

-JB


----------



## razorbackfan

How did this get to be a blu-ray, laserdisk discussion? Can we stay on topic?


----------



## Artwood

People talk about alot of things when they're doing hard time waiting on new HD!


----------



## Hound

Just ordered two D* HR21s today. Price went down to $99. Will run
E*, D*, Fios and Comcast simultaneously, compare and see who adds HD. Got tired of waiting for new HD. Not going to finish out hockey season without FSNY HD and and MSG HD. MLB EI in HD is very appealing.


----------



## msmith198025

Hound said:


> Just ordered two D* HR21s today. Price went down to $99. Will run
> E*, D*, Fios and Comcast simultaneously, compare and see who adds HD. Got tired of waiting for new HD. Not going to finish out hockey season without FSNY HD and and MSG HD. MLB EI in HD is very appealing.


Congrats. Only reason I responded to this is I just ordered another HR series myself. They offered $199 first, then $99. I stalled and then they offered it for shipping only, so I got it for $19.95. Deals are still there to be had(if D* is of interest to you)


----------



## whatchel1

Hound said:


> Just ordered two D* HR21s today. Price went down to $99. Will run
> E*, D*, Fios and Comcast simultaneously, compare and see who adds HD. Got tired of waiting for new HD. Not going to finish out hockey season without FSNY HD and and MSG HD. MLB EI in HD is very appealing.


I just checked into this to see what it would cost for me to replace my 622. Weell since it takes 2 of the D* HD DVR'S to do the same as what I have (I admit that I would have 1 more tuner this way). It would still cost me $298 start up fee. So to me it just doesn't make sense to sign my life away for 2 yrs w/ D*. So thanx D* lurkers but no thanx.


----------



## msmith198025

whatchel1 said:


> So thanx D* lurkers but no thanx.


I cant speak for hound, but it appears he has E* also. 
I do have E* and D*. No one is lurking, I was simply giving out info that some might want. You dont, thats fine, but dont just assume that people are lurking.


----------



## Hound

msmith198025 said:


> I cant speak for hound, but it appears he has E* also.
> I do have E* and D*. No one is lurking, I was simply giving out info that some might want. You dont, thats fine, but dont just assume that people are lurking.


I have E* as well and will stick with E* through the end of NBA LP and NHL CI.
Will probably continue E* after April, if there is this HD only pack for $29.99, and
E* makes some improvements to the HD lineup. I actually like Voom and I go to it when not watching sports. Also, because of where I live (Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Flyers, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Sixers, Nets, Knicks, Eagles, Giants, Jets) I generally always have two games on two different TVs, (whether its hockey, basketball, baseball or football and one other sport or a golf tournament and another sport) and need at least two TV providers.


----------



## whatchel1

Hound said:


> I have E* as well and will stick with E* through the end of NBA LP and NHL CI.
> Will probably continue E* after April, if there is this HD only pack for $29.99, and
> E* makes some improvements to the HD lineup. I actually like Voom and I go to it when not watching sports. Also, because of where I live (Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Flyers, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Sixers, Nets, Knicks, Eagles, Giants, Jets) I generally always have two games on two different TVs, (whether its hockey, basketball, baseball or football and one other sport or a golf tournament and another sport) and need at least two TV providers.


The way you stated it it sounded like I've just gone over to D*. It didn't sound like I've just added D*. I'm just getting real tired of the lurkers coming in and acting like 5 yr old kids going "na na na na" we are so much better than you.


----------



## msmith198025

whatchel1 said:


> The way you stated it it sounded like I've just gone over to D*. It didn't sound like I've just added D*. I'm just getting real tired of the lurkers coming in and acting like 5 yr old kids going "na na na na" we are so much better than you.


Well that was not my intention at all, if it was taken that way by anyone else I apologize. I have had E* since they started up. I got D* last year, the last post was simply information that D* is still giving deals on upgrades for the HR series DVR. Since Hound had already taken the thread into that general direction with his statement, I saw no harm in putting that out there.


----------



## James Long

So if Billy jumps off of the roof you will too?


If this thread turns too far into D* vs E* it will be closed.


----------



## msmith198025

James Long said:


> So if Billy jumps off of the roof you will too?
> 
> If this thread turns too far into D* vs E* it will be closed.


James, I guess I should have PMd hound. In the future I will do so, I simply did not see the harm or expect the E* people to get upset about it.

That aside, NOTHING in my (or hounds) posts had anything to do with D* vs E*.


----------



## whatchel1

James Long said:


> So if Billy jumps off of the roof you will too?
> 
> If this thread turns too far into D* vs E* it will be closed.


I believe that we've taken care of it. The misunderstanding is stated. We now understand what was meant to be said. BTW my brother's name is Billy and he is looking at jumping off the D* roof so I guess I musta done it first, since I have been w/E* for longer than my contracts have been in force. 1st was for the 942, 2nd is 622.


----------



## Hound

whatchel1 said:


> I believe that we've taken care of it. The misunderstanding is stated. We now understand what was meant to be said. BTW my brother's name is Billy and he is looking at jumping off the D* roof so I guess I musta done it first, since I have been w/E* for longer than my contracts have been in force. 1st was for the 942, 2nd is 622.


I had the 811 then 921 and currently have the 622 and 722.


----------



## lamp525

Hound said:


> I had the 811 then 921 and currently have the 622 and 722.


Is there any where that states which hd channels that dish now provides???


----------



## whatchel1

lamp525 said:


> Is there any where that states which hd channels that dish now provides???


Link to EKB.
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/index.htm


----------



## rey_1178

waiting till next month


----------



## tomcrown1

rey_1178 said:


> waiting till next month


I am waiting untill 12/31/08 to get extra HD programs by then AT&T will tell us how great the new Dish er AT&T is.


----------



## rey_1178

11 days till Feb. we'll see


----------



## Paul Secic

rey_1178 said:


> 11 days till Feb. we'll see


Wednesday we might see things light up.


----------



## rey_1178

why Wednesday?


----------



## whatchel1

rey_1178 said:


> why Wednesday?


Wed is the day they usually turn on new things.


----------



## rey_1178

whatchel1 said:


> Wed is the day they usually turn on new things.


ooohhhhh  thanks chief


----------



## Henry

... and someone else said Monday. Aaarrggg!


----------



## TBoneit

And a watched pot never seems to boil. 

For me the channels everybody seems to be waiting for are things I'd never watch anyway. When new channels appear I won't even notice unless I see something here.


----------



## roachxp

At lest E* has a deal in place to carry NESNHD 24/7 now they only have to light up the spotbeams on 61.5 after the SkyAngel is over


----------



## James Long

DISH does not have to wait THAT long.


----------



## rey_1178

again today i woke up expecting something at least scifi&usa but surprise, nothing. i give up :nono: :nono2:


----------



## Jim5506

Give it a rest!


----------



## Mike D-CO5

I see Mavhd on channel 9465 but it has nothing on it. I wonder what this channel is?


----------



## James Long

Dallas Mavericks HD (it was the HD Events Channel).


----------



## Gremraf

It is a Dallas Mavericks Basketball channel, or so it seems


----------



## phrelin

Ok, the Super Moderators are telling us not to use the thread for the great new History Channel in Spanish (and other threads) to complain about no new HD.

It's February 1, and I don't have SciFi or USA in HD. We've been told by those who know about this stuff that they've been uplinked for awhile now. Whether or not you care about Scifi and USA, you have to wonder - why is it taking so long? Is this an indicator of how long its going to take to give us more HD after a new satellite is up? Because if it is, you have to wonder about the 2008 promise. And certainly there are more troubling clouds over our E* customer horizon:

We have the new Echostar and the new Dish Network, with the latter still discussed in the business press as a potential AT&T takeover target.
We have confusing discussions about mpeg2 being replace by mpeg4 which has somewhat undefined, but potentially serious, implications about old receivers.
We have the TiVo lawsuit which has also has serious long-term implications for older DVRs and creates a fuzziness about the newer DVRs.
And we have a real shadow hanging over the promised 2008 HD - potentially failed rocket launches and defective satellites - a technology that is not anywhere nearly as reliable as the apparent 1-in-200 "long" odds of getting a defective new 722.
Instead of shoring up the long-term customer base with honest complete facts, what we are getting from Dish Network is news releases about the Spanish History Channel and DISH Decision 2008, along with "don't worry" spin news releases about the TiVo dispute. The best honest thing to come from Dish Network in recent months is the _Frank Caliendo Out-takes on YouTube_, but the E* designed-and-manufactured 622/722 units can't be used to get you to that web site even though they are Linux computers connected to the internet. Does the new E* have any long-term plan and does anyone here know what it is?

I admit it, I am irked that I'm going into another Friday night (the previously rumored "magic" February 1) having to watch Flash Gordon, Stargate Atlantis, Monk and Psych in SD.

But I'm getting alot more concerned about the future when I don't see an authoritative voice here or on the Dish web site with any information. What this is doing is making me seriously consider Comcast - shudder - as an option, instead of a second 722. And I've been with Echostar since 1988!


----------



## space86

I think they will add New HD on Feb. 15th if not sooner.


----------



## lparsons21

space86 said:


> I think they will add New HD on Feb. 15th if not sooner.


And I believe the tooth fairy will come tonight... :lol:

I've been watching and (im)patiently waiting for Charlie and Dish to get off the dime and do something besides talk about new HD. As far as I'm concerned, I'll believe new HD when it shows up and not one moment before.

That is unless I finally get ticked enough to tell Charlie where he can stick it and move to another service.


----------



## rey_1178

Jim5506 said:


> Give it a rest!


NO ONE IS MAKING YOU READ THIS POST BUDDY.


----------



## HobbyTalk

You will get new HD in 2008. How's that? I'll take any bets to the contrary


----------



## tomcrown1

I was told that their will be 7 new HD channels in the Month of Feburary. If this is not true then Direct TV here I come.


----------



## LinkNuc

I feel your pain E* has dropped to last in available National HD Channels D and Comcast got us now. I personally think I am gong back to cable the PQ is better the package w/interet is good I haven't had a land line in 7 years so DSL is out of the question, Comcast came out huge at CES...Plus No equipment, I still thin kDishes are eyesores, but at the time it was the best thing going, and I'll admit I like the 622 DVr the best, its not that great, not enough for me to go back to Cable DVR that's for sure.


----------



## texaswolf

I had heard in February...not Feb. 1st...the only thing i have heard about the 1st was the new package lineups taking effect...to which there were no new channels on...now had there been a Feb. 1st promise...i would also like to know where they are, but like i said, i thought it was *IN *February.

which gives them the whole month to make us wait


----------



## lparsons21

Gremraf said:


> It is a Dallas Mavericks Basketball channel, or so it seems


IOW, another channel to add to the count without doing much to improve the HD viewing pleasure, huh?


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> IOW, another channel to add to the count without doing much to improve the HD viewing pleasure, huh?


Not sure, but I think we have Mark Cuban to thank for it


----------



## Stewart Vernon

rey_1178 said:


> NO ONE IS MAKING YOU READ THIS POST BUDDY.


To be fair, using that logic, you didn't have to read his reply either 

None of us has to read anything, but the same old same old does get old after a while.

That said... new HD today would be nice, but I can't find anywhere that Dish promised such a thing, so any expectations are clearly our own and no one to blame but ourselves if we got worked up.


----------



## aloishus27

I wouldn't expect much until the next Charlie Chat. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that but, it would make a lot of sense that the reason for the longer than normal lapse between the last one and the next is that they will be making some sort of announcement then. Just my 2¢


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> To be fair, using that logic, you didn't have to read his reply either
> 
> None of us has to read anything, but the same old same old does get old after a while.
> 
> That said... new HD today would be nice, but I can't find anywhere that Dish promised such a thing, so any expectations are clearly our own and no one to blame but ourselves if we got worked up.


yeah i didn't hear a "day", just a month..so if not today then they have 27 more i guess...lol.

I guess the same old same old is becoming the "norm" lately...kind of throws that "nobody but us on the forums complain about new HD", since it seems a lot of new or newer folks are bringing it up. Seems like more and more are seeking out sites like this to find out some kind of news.....:shrug:


----------



## rey_1178

HDMe said:


> To be fair, using that logic, you didn't have to read his reply either
> 
> None of us has to read anything, but the same old same old does get old after a while.
> 
> That said... new HD today would be nice, but I can't find anywhere that Dish promised such a thing, so any expectations are clearly our own and no one to blame but ourselves if we got worked up.


true


----------



## tomcrown1

Tech chat is just around the corner(in two weeks if I'am right) and their suppose to make some great big announcement about HD.


----------



## phrelin

JohnnyHighGround said:


> Also, some dude on Satteliteguys seems pretty confident SciFi and USA are launching by Feb.
> 
> Take that for what it's worth, a'course...


I guess "by Feb" could mean by the end of February, but I took it to mean on or before January 31. Since I don't who the "dude" was....

Which is, of course, my gripe. CSR's don't know anything and on another thread someone is saying that the rumor is there will be an announcement on the upcoming Tech Chat, which means the Techs don't know. In other words, Dish Network hasn't really told anyone if there is going to be any new HD until December 31, 2008. Then, of course, they could give their 2 remaining HD customers 1000 new channels. Who cares?

What I want to know from a Dish Network executive quoted in one of their grand news releases (or posted on this or some other obvious web site) is that their technical staff is trying to get to the point they can turn on SciFi and USA but they are having unexpected problems aligning the dufligy which likely won't occur with the newer more powerful satellites they _*hope*_ to have launched later this year.

And every time they announce something like adding a History Channel in Spanish I get madder about no information. I think about irrelevant things like doesn't adding even an SD channel use some available bandwidth and wouldn't SAP on the regular History Channel be enough until the new satellites are up and do they really have enough staff focusing on HD?


----------



## tomcrown1

I believe that by the end of this Month their will be several new HD channels. When I posted that Tech Talk would bring up HD it does not mean they will talk about HD channels I believe they will introduce the new HD receiver.


----------



## texaswolf

tomcrown1 said:


> I believe that by the end of this Month their will be several new HD channels. When I posted that Tech Talk would bring up HD it does not mean they will talk about HD channels I believe they will introduce the new HD receiver.


i agree...they are doing to much "moving around" to not add any new channels


----------



## James Long

tomcrown1 said:


> Tech chat is just around the corner(in two weeks if I'am right) and their suppose to make some great big announcement about HD.


Really? Did you read that at some rumor site? Perhaps some place that said Sci-Fi and USA would be up in early December?

Tech chats are for tech ... don't expect major programming announcements.


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> Ok, the Super Moderators are telling us not to use the thread for the great new History Channel in Spanish (and other threads) to complain about no new HD.


Yes ... we would like DBSTalk to be about more than just ONE topic. This is a topical forum ... not every thread is about when DISH will add new HD and griping about them not adding it yet.


----------



## mikep554

Moto GP and F1 both start in March, and D* already has Speed in HD. If E* does not have Speed in HD on Feb 29th, I will be contacting the nearest D* retailer before the end of the day.

Not a gripe, simply what I will be doing.


----------



## texaswolf

Not to mention the number of people complaining is growing and growing...but remember that doesn't reflect the base of the dish customers....just on dbs sites

I do however think/hope by the end of feb. we will not be seeing many of these types of post...since we will be happy with the new channels....hopefully


----------



## rey_1178

why is there a set of hd channels being repeated in the hd guide and why are they in red?


----------



## texaswolf

rey_1178 said:


> why is there a set of hd channels being repeated in the hd guide and why are they in red?


They are shuffling channels around for the new HD packages, and also making room for some new channels.


----------



## rey_1178

thanks texaswolf.


----------



## texaswolf

rey_1178 said:


> thanks texaswolf.


Welcome


----------



## HobbyTalk

texaswolf said:


> we will be happy with the new channels....


Thank you for the best laugh I've had all day :lol:


----------



## F1Fan

I want Speed HD


----------



## razorbackfan

I want:

ABC Family HD
Bravo HD
Cartoon Network HD
CNBC HD
CNN HD
Disney Channel HD
FX HD
Nickelodeon HD
Playboy HD
SciFi Channel HD
Speed Channel HD
The Movie Channel HD
Weather Channel HD
USA Network HD

And all my locals in HD too.

And I want them with DISH, not Direct TV not cable, but DISH. I would like them all turned on by 8pm central today, thank you.


----------



## TiVoPrince

*Harder*
every day not to listen to the Comcast propoganda about the tastier HD KoolAid...


----------



## JohnL

razorbackfan said:


> I want:
> 
> ABC Family HD
> Bravo HD
> Cartoon Network HD
> CNBC HD
> CNN HD
> Disney Channel HD
> FX HD
> Nickelodeon HD
> Playboy HD
> SciFi Channel HD
> Speed Channel HD
> The Movie Channel HD
> Weather Channel HD
> USA Network HD
> 
> And all my locals in HD too.
> 
> And I want them with DISH, not Direct TV not cable, but DISH. I would like them all turned on by 8pm central today, thank you.


Razorback,

CNBC HD is not HD at all, they are using the additional Screen Space in the 16x9 space to run more Graphics, Nick HD has NO HD at all, Weather Channel HD has about 2-3 hours per day in HD, Disney has NO HD at all, Bravo HD has little to NO HD, Cartoon HD has no HD at all, ABC Family has NO HD, CNN is 1-2 HD hours per day.

Of all the channels you list most have little or NO HD at all. Sure, I want more HD, but of all the channels you list the only Channels That have more than a little HD are USA, FX, and SciFi (which you do not list), these three have the most HD content that I would like to see in HD.

John


----------



## texaswolf

JohnL said:


> Razorback,
> 
> CNBC HD is not HD at all, they are using the additional Screen Space in the 16x9 space to run more Graphics, Nick HD has NO HD at all, Weather Channel HD has about 2-3 hours per day in HD, Disney has NO HD at all, Bravo HD has little to NO HD, Cartoon HD has no HD at all, ABC Family has NO HD, CNN is 1-2 HD hours per day.
> 
> Of all the channels you list most have little or NO HD at all. Sure, I want more HD, but of all the channels you list the only Channels That have more than a little HD are USA, FX, and SciFi (which you do not list), these three have the most HD content that I would like to see in HD.
> 
> John


true, but as they add more HD content on those channels, we will be able to watch it immediately, instead of waiting for the feed to be added.


----------



## texaswolf

HobbyTalk said:


> Thank you for the best laugh I've had all day :lol:


lol...no prob


----------



## James Long

Besides, Smithsonian HD and MGM HD are not on that list.


----------



## razorbackfan

And Smithsonian HD
MGM HD

By 8pm central tonight.


----------



## jimborst

Travel Channel in HD would be good, Anthony Bourdain:No Reservations has been in HD at least since the season started.

For me, if the following were added in HD I could probably go without the SD:
Travel Channel
USA
Sci-Fi
Cnn


----------



## space86

What is the Deal with SD Vs HD

Won't Every Channel there is, be in HD Five Years from Now ?


----------



## jclewter79

hopefully


----------



## razorbackfan

5 years? I can't wait 5 years! I have things to do.


----------



## jclewter79

lol


----------



## texaswolf

razorbackfan said:


> 5 years? I can't wait 5 years! I have things to do.


+1

by the way...congrats on Ryan Mallett


----------



## texaswolf

now we will have a comedian telling us all about our "HD leader" and HD only package.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/0...p-frank-caliendo-to-push-standalone-hd-packa/


----------



## rey_1178

razorbackfan said:


> 5 years? I can't wait 5 years! I have things to do.


+2


----------



## dbconsultant

The way I look at it is that last year all the D* folks were complaining because they didn't have the HD channels that E* had. Now D* has some that E* doesn't so the E* people are complaining. I'm sure E* is going to get the same ones even it's not tomorrow or the next day. But when they do and if they get one that D* doesn't have, then the D* people will be complaining again.

It goes back and forth but in the end it's pretty much like all of the movie multiplexes they keep building. Our town has two of them but they both show all the same movies. The only difference is that the satellite services may not both get the new channels on the same day. I figure they'll eventually both have them anyway.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Eventually they will have the same. But till then I will have both services so I won't miss any hd on Sci fi and Usa hd etc.


----------



## texaswolf

dbconsultant said:


> The way I look at it is that last year all the D* folks were complaining because they didn't have the HD channels that E* had. Now D* has some that E* doesn't so the E* people are complaining. I'm sure E* is going to get the same ones even it's not tomorrow or the next day. But when they do and if they get one that D* doesn't have, then the D* people will be complaining again.
> 
> It goes back and forth but in the end it's pretty much like all of the movie multiplexes they keep building. Our town has two of them but they both show all the same movies. The only difference is that the satellite services may not both get the new channels on the same day. I figure they'll eventually both have them anyway.


but the difference now, is that the cable companies have jumped into the game big time and offer channels that E* doesn't have. E* was quick out of the gate, early in the game, but the game is in full swing and they are being left behind...now it's a matter of keeping up. With D* sitting on 18 or so (I don't want to get a channel count going) more HD channels, not counting the "voompetes", E* will need serious work to make up the channels, and thats not counting any more channels that D* could add on this year. Cable companies keep adding channels left and right also. I think E* will catch up this year as far as being back in the game...but not enough to have an HD leader claim again


----------



## harsh

texaswolf said:


> but the difference now, is that the cable companies have jumped into the game big time and offer channels that E* doesn't have.


My local Comcast offers PBS, CW, and MNT as well as their house brand Mojo that DISH Network doesn't carry.


----------



## texaswolf

harsh said:


> My local Comcast offers PBS, CW, and MNT as well as their house brand Mojo that DISH Network doesn't carry.


they should have TWC HD also i thought. Also starting to add usa, sci fi ect. in certain areas:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/2...eight-new-hd-options-in-central-pennsylvania/


----------



## lparsons21

texaswolf said:


> but the difference now, is that the cable companies have jumped into the game big time and offer channels that E* doesn't have. E* was quick out of the gate, early in the game, but the game is in full swing and they are being left behind...now it's a matter of keeping up. With D* sitting on 18 or so (I don't want to get a channel count going) more HD channels, not counting the "voompetes", E* will need serious work to make up the channels, and thats not counting any more channels that D* could add on this year. Cable companies keep adding channels left and right also. I think E* will catch up this year as far as being back in the game...but not enough to have an HD leader claim again


Come to Mediacom country and say that! :lol:


----------



## Hound

harsh said:


> My local Comcast offers PBS, CW, and MNT as well as their house brand Mojo that DISH Network doesn't carry.


With my local Comcast, I am getting USA HD, CNN HD, MOJO HD, CSN Phila HD,
YES HD, MY HD, CW HD, NY PBS HD, NJ PBS HD, and Wealth HD. That is 10 channels
that E* does not offer. Plus I get SNY HD in expanded basic as a full time RSN which E* only offers in sports pack to me as a part time game only HD channel. These 10 channels are very significant depending on your viewing habits.

Comcast does not charge for HD or locals. Also, Comcast did not raise it rates in
2008 for my subscription presumably because of competition from Verizon Fios.


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> Come to Mediacom country and say that! :lol:


Even they have MOJO!:lol: .....j/k


----------



## lparsons21

texaswolf said:


> Even they have MOJO!:lol: .....j/k


Not in my market. I think they are now up to a total of 5 channels, not counting any premiums, in HD. The good is they now aren't going to charge for those 5 and they say, and have been saying for quite awhile, that they will add more.

In the meantime, they seem more interested in pushing their phone service.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Hound said:


> With my local Comcast, I am getting USA HD, CNN HD, MOJO HD, CSN Phila HD,
> YES HD, MY HD, CW HD, NY PBS HD, NJ PBS HD, and Wealth HD. That is 10 channels
> that E* does not offer. Plus I get SNY HD in expanded basic as a full time RSN which E* only offers in sports pack to me as a part time game only HD channel. These 10 channels are very significant depending on your viewing habits.
> 
> Comcast does not charge for HD or locals. Also, Comcast did not raise it rates in
> 2008 for my subscription presumably because of competition from Verizon Fios.


You're lucky, then. Here in Gloucester County we're too far south to get YES, MSG or SNY at all, and Comcast is still charging for HD boxes as well as for the "expanded HD" tier that includes anything not a local HD channel. My cable/internet/phone bill with no premiums and 1 HD box with "expanded HD" ran me $140 a month at an "introductory" rate.

I'm still going to dump Comcast internet and phone and swap to FiOS as soon as I see those happy white trucks roll through my neighborhood. They're not offering TV around here anyway, so I'm plenty happy with the $60 a month I'm paying Dish with the Sports Pack.


----------



## Hound

RasputinAXP said:


> You're lucky, then. Here in Gloucester County we're too far south to get YES, MSG or SNY at all, and Comcast is still charging for HD boxes as well as for the "expanded HD" tier that includes anything not a local HD channel. My cable/internet/phone bill with no premiums and 1 HD box with "expanded HD" ran me $140 a month at an "introductory" rate.
> 
> I'm still going to dump Comcast internet and phone and swap to FiOS as soon as I see those happy white trucks roll through my neighborhood. They're not offering TV around here anyway, so I'm plenty happy with the $60 a month I'm paying Dish with the Sports Pack.


I have Fios triple play as well including TV and I recommend it over Comcast. Fios gives me CSN HD, YES HD and SNY HD and NY and Phila locals (14 local HD channels). The Fios 20/5 Internet blows away the 7/1 Comcast Internet, and I would never get VOIP phone. You are too far south for MSG, FSNY, SNY and YES, but I understand that D* is providing MSG, FSNY, SNY and YES all over south
jersey because Comcast will not allow CSN on satellite. My hat is off to D* for
doing that. E* should do the same, but E* does not want to pay the per sub
fee for MSG, FSNY and SNY in south jersey. That is why I do not get SNY with my
E* subscription in central NJ. With E* sports pack you should be able to get the Devils on FSNY without blackout.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Hound said:


> I have Fios triple play as well including TV and I recommend it over Comcast. Fios gives me CSN HD, YES HD and SNY HD and NY and Phila locals (14 local HD channels). The Fios 20/5 Internet blows away the 7/1 Comcast Internet, and I would never get VOIP phone. You are too far south for MSG, FSNY, SNY and YES, but I understand that D* is providing MSG, FSNY, SNY and YES all over south
> jersey because Comcast will not allow CSN on satellite. My hat is off to D* for
> doing that. E* should do the same, but E* does not want to pay the per sub
> fee for MSG, FSNY and SNY in south jersey. That is why I do not get SNY with my
> E* subscription in central NJ. With E* sports pack you should be able to get the Devils on FSNY without blackout.


VoIP phone isn't bad. It's actually very, very good, and Comcast's implementation is a lot better than Vonage or other piggyback-style VoIP folks.

The whole loophole with CSN Philly is that it's a microwave station and as such exempt from being required for carriage agreements. At least that's what I've heard.

I just rechecked and FiOS still isn't available in my area yet. I'll live with it 'til then.


----------



## TBoneit

Hound said:


> With my local Comcast, I am getting USA HD, CNN HD, MOJO HD, CSN Phila HD,
> YES HD, MY HD, CW HD, NY PBS HD, NJ PBS HD, and Wealth HD. That is 10 channels
> that E* does not offer. Plus I get SNY HD in expanded basic as a full time RSN which E* only offers in sports pack to me as a part time game only HD channel. These 10 channels are very significant depending on your viewing habits.
> 
> Comcast does not charge for HD or locals. Also, Comcast did not raise it rates in
> 2008 for my subscription presumably because of competition from Verizon Fios.


So if you get rid of everything except locals and HD there will no charge from Comcast? Believe me if that was all you had you'd still be paying. If you meant Comcast does not charge extra for HD Locals or for HD channels I Pay for then I suspect you'd be accurate.

The last time I called my cable company and asked for the no charge locals and HD and nothing else all I heard was laughter.

The local cable company, Cablevision, that serves where I work for example shows.

Family Cable & Broadcast Basic
Family Cable (Price includes subscription to Broadcast Basic)$49.95 
Broadcast Basic$10.20

Then they claim that
"HD Is Free With iO
HD programming includes the most local channels, hi-def NY sports channels, and hi-def movies."

HD is not free if you don't subscribe.


----------



## phrelin

The Comcast comparisons I see here are always interesting. Comcast allows you to build a package on its web site just like Dish does. According to the web site, Comcast high-def (including alot of channels) in San Francisco is priced as follows:

Without dvr $ 7.00 per month
OR
HDdvr $13.95 per month

Plus you must have a _digital_ package:

Cheapest is Digital Starter $56.99 per month
TO
Most Expensive is Digital Premier 119.94 per month

Yes, they do have promotional signup offers.

The pricing structure in, say Trenton, NJ, is similar but different. The cheapest HD offered online now is $6.00 with the appropriate package and not counting a dvr.


----------



## texaswolf

TBoneit said:


> So if you get rid of everything except locals and HD there will no charge from Comcast? Believe me if that was all you had you'd still be paying. If you meant Comcast does not charge extra for HD Locals or for HD channels I Pay for then I suspect you'd be accurate.
> 
> The last time I called my cable company and asked for the no charge locals and HD and nothing else all I heard was laughter.
> 
> The local cable company, Cablevision, that serves where I work for example shows.
> 
> Family Cable & Broadcast Basic
> Family Cable (Price includes subscription to Broadcast Basic)$49.95
> Broadcast Basic$10.20
> 
> Then they claim that
> "HD Is Free With iO
> HD programming includes the most local channels, hi-def NY sports channels, and hi-def movies."
> 
> HD is not free if you don't subscribe.


Charter didn't charge for locals either, they used that as an ad weapon against sat companies. But your right HD only was a no go...as far as i know E* is the only ones doing it.


----------



## lparsons21

Did you know you already have it on Dish? Neither did I!

But according to the call Dish retention just made to me, you do. Strangely, when I looked at the Dish site today, and watched on my Vip622 last week, you didn't.

How in the heck can Dish retention experts just so outright lie?

When I left Dish, I wasn't mad. Now I am.


----------



## tomcrown1

I got no stinking SCIFIHD on my Dish!!


----------



## phrelin

Yeah, well me neither. Can't get no info from Charlie Chats, Tech Forum, etc. But apparently a number other Dish employees and contractors are just full of it.


----------



## garys

lparsons21 said:


> Did you know you already have it on Dish? Neither did I!
> 
> But according to the call Dish retention just made to me, you do. Strangely, when I looked at the Dish site today, and watched on my Vip622 last week, you didn't.
> 
> How in the heck can Dish retention experts just so outright lie?
> 
> When I left Dish, I wasn't mad. Now I am.


Can you get someone to tell my receivers, neither of them are tell me I got it.


----------



## SMosher

whats the channel number?


----------



## lparsons21

The point of my post was the lies coming out of retention. 

When I called last Friday (or Saturday) and cancelled, the CSR gave me a pitch that didn't work, then transferred me to retention then. i had a pleasant conversation with them, gave them the reason I was switching (more HD + locals in HD) and I hung up at the finish of the call feeling like they made their best offer, I declined and we parted as friends.

But today's call was different. They asked why I was leaving, I gave the same answer. Then she asked which channels I was most concerned about. I told her SciFi and USA in HD. She then proceeded to lie and tell me that SciFi was in HD on Dish. I then went to the website with her on the phone and told her that unless they had just added it in the last 5 minutes, they didn't. Then she got huffy. That's when I terminated the call.

Originally I had told retention that in 2 years I would revisit the issue because I did like the service and equipment from Dish better than Direct's. But if they are going to lie, and this isn't the first report on this forum about it, I may not.


----------



## jpeckinp

lparsons21 said:


> But today's call was different. They asked why I was leaving, I gave the same answer. Then *she* asked which channels I was most concerned about. I told *her* SciFi and USA in HD. *She* then proceeded to lie and tell me that SciFi was in HD on Dish. I then went to the website with *her* on the phone and told *her* that unless they had just added it in the last 5 minutes, they didn't. Then *she* got huffy. That's when I terminated the call.


I think I probably just highlighted your problem.
She probably has SciFi HD confused with Science Channel HD. How many women care about either of these channels to know the difference.


----------



## phrelin

Boy, are we sexist. I know of more than a few women who love science fiction! But you are probably right.:lol:


----------



## tomcrown1

phrelin said:


> Boy, are we sexist. I know of more than a few women who love science fiction! But you are probably right.:lol:


Hey wasn't Jane Fonda in that SCIFI flick Barbados??


----------



## lparsons21

jpeckinp said:


> I think I probably just highlighted your problem.
> She probably has SciFi HD confused with Science Channel HD. How many women care about either of these channels to know the difference.


Possibly, but I don't really think so in this case. After she told me they had it, I said 'you have Science Fiction channel in HD?', and she reiterated that yes they did. It was all downhill from there.

BTW, there was another thread around here somewhere that talks about the uh, um... 'stretching' of the truth by the callback retention folks.


----------



## lparsons21

tomcrown1 said:


> Hey wasn't Jane Fonda in that SCIFI flick Barbados??


That wasn't the name, and the name escapes me at the moment, but you bet she was!!! It was one of a very few movies I liked her in. JF out of clothes in those days was a sight...
:lol:


----------



## lparsons21

The name of the movie was Barbarella!!

My early senility just got out of the way


----------



## phrelin

Feelings from prevous posts _*about being a loyal Echostar customer *_reflected on the morning of Valentine's Day 2008, halfway through the month of February, waiting for more HD:


phrelin said:


> "...You'll regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life."


Plus this exchange:


DirecTV-Sub said:


> Why should this _loyalty_ be expected to be so one-sided?





phrelin said:


> It's like alot of marriages, and I'm the suffering spouse.


It does seem like they could have had something ready to light up for their current HD customers.


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> It does seem like they could have had something ready to light up for their current HD customers.


They do.

The issue isn't what is ready, but what is lit.


----------



## rey_1178

:beatdeadhorse: :bang


----------



## phrelin

rey_1178 said:


> :beatdeadhorse: :bang


----------



## rey_1178

light these channels up! !pusht!


----------



## Amon37

razorbackfan said:


> I want:
> Playboy HD


I just caught this. :lol:

I'll take CW/USA/SCI-FI/FX


----------



## FogCutter

So is there any news about when we get new channels? February 1 came and went, and I saw some mention of March 1.

Thanks.


----------



## rey_1178

:new_cussi NO. everything is just speculation at this point. it's just a wait and see situation. sorry :nono:


----------



## FogCutter

Thanks. Hope they don't drag it out for a year like they did the external HD support.


----------



## HobbyTalk

FogCutter said:


> So is there any news about when we get new channels? February 1 came and went, and I saw some mention of March 1.
> 
> Thanks.


By the end of 2008.


----------



## Dicx

HobbyTalk said:


> By the end of 2008.


How about by the end of February? What are the Vegas odds on that one?

I say 10:1


----------



## projectorguru

Dicx said:


> How about by the end of February? What are the Vegas odds on that one?
> 
> I say 10:1


Just got 8 more on Comcast, February is possible, cuz it already happened


----------



## booger

I don't know what's taking them so long!! This is getting old. Not to mention Direct adding local HD weekly now.

This die-hard Dish customer is loosing hope.


----------



## phrelin

Dicx said:


> How about by the end of February? What are the Vegas odds on that one?
> 
> I say 10:1


If you mean 10:1 against, yeah.


----------



## tomcrown1

phrelin said:


> If you mean 10:1 against, yeah.


How about the odds at 100:1


----------



## rey_1178

how is it that there has been no leaks at all of some info on this? :hair:


----------



## Paul Secic

HobbyTalk said:


> The last time E* responded to customer's "demands" it got us the worthless HD channel TBS that has had no HD programming other then for one week. Now they are getting blasted for giving customers what they wanted. Damned if you do and damned if you don't .


It's too bad the WTBS of late 70's, 80's, 90's isn't on now. That was a heck of a television station!!!!!!


----------



## tomcrown1

Is HD dead at Dish???


----------



## lamp525

rey_1178 said:


> how is it that there has been no leaks at all of some info on this? :hair:


I can not believe no leaks either..hd feb 29th


----------



## James Long

New HD released on February 30th?


----------



## jclewter79

no leaks cuz nothing to leak yet?


----------



## rey_1178

James Long said:


> New HD released on February 30th?


:icon_stup :bang


----------



## James Long

I just heard that the HD release scheduled for February 30th has been pushed back until April 1st.


----------



## whatchel1

James Long said:


> I just heard that the HD release scheduled for February 30th has been pushed back until April 1st.


Your so funny I forgot to laugh.


----------



## msmith198025

James Long said:


> I just heard that the HD release scheduled for February 30th has been pushed back until April 1st.


lol


----------



## rey_1178

James Long said:


> I just heard that the HD release scheduled for February 30th has been pushed back until April 1st.


:beatdeadhorse:


----------



## jpeckinp

James Long said:


> I just heard that the HD release scheduled for February 30th has been pushed back until April 1st.


Damn thats funny I heard it was the second Tuesday of next week. We need get better sources. 
Feb. 30th/April 1st/2nd Tuesday well which is it Charlie?

One thing is for sure they need to throw us a bone, we're getting hungry.:new_popco


----------



## rey_1178

wasn't there some one here that wrote about a cus. serv. rep. said 7 new hd channels this month? am i dreaming these forums? :smoking: :ramblinon


----------



## tomcrown1

Dish network response We are the leader in dream HD no one comes close to dish


----------



## Jim5506

Morgens sint Mittwoch.


----------



## rey_1178

*nothing new in the uplink reports today for hd!:nono:*


----------



## booger

I heard that World Fishing Network HD, Smithsonian HD and MGM HD were a done deal. I don't know what the hell is going on. I'm not so pissed about that though. What gets me is all the local HD Direct is adding when my city has been listed to get local HD since 06 on Dish!!!!!


----------



## tomcrown1

Dish can not add any new HD for 6 months because of the contract that Direct TV signed. Dish is trying not to lose customers because of the delay on HD. I believe that is why I was lied to by the rentation center.


----------



## booger

Charlie states that a new sat is going up next month with 10 additional local HD makets to be added once operational. Am I reading this correctly?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dish022708.htm


----------



## lionsrule

yes


----------



## BNUMM

booger said:


> Charlie states that a new sat is going up next month with 10 additional local HD makets to be added once operational. Am I reading this correctly?
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dish022708.htm


No! It says will be able to add 10 local HD markets.


----------



## James Long

tomcrown1 said:


> Dish can not add any new HD for 6 months because of the contract that Direct TV signed. Dish is trying not to lose customers because of the delay on HD. I believe that is why I was lied to by the rentation center.


Huh? Individual networks _MAY_ have signed an exclusivity contract with DirecTV ... but to say a blanket "no HD for DISH" is irresponsible.


----------



## rey_1178

feb 29th. nothing. lies all lies. get out of my head! :bang :bonk1:


----------



## OinkinOregon

Watching Stargate Atlantis last night and being taunted that it was available in HD, Just pissed me off!!


----------



## jclewter79

3-1-08 no 7 new channels in Feb. As expected


----------



## whatchel1

So did E* send out the $10 gift certificates to help w/ the retention?


----------



## phrelin

whatchel1 said:


> So did E* send out the $10 gift certificates to help w/ the retention?


What gift certficate?


----------



## EXTACAMO

whatchel1 said:


> So did E* send out the $10 gift certificates to help w/ the retention?


Yea, I got mine. It would have been better just to give me 10 bucks off my bill for a month since I don't do the PPV stuff. :nono2:


----------



## jclewter79

When did you get this? Was it for price increases?


----------



## phrelin

EXTACAMO said:


> Yea, I got mine. It would have been better just to give me 10 bucks off my bill for a month since I don't do the PPV stuff. :nono2:


Oh. They occasionally send those out to customers, probably to get you to use PPV. I always forget to use it before it expires and since I'm now a paperless autopay, I'm not even sure how I'd use one.


----------



## whatchel1

EXTACAMO said:


> Yea, I got mine. It would have been better just to give me 10 bucks off my bill for a month since I don't do the PPV stuff. :nono2:


It states on back $10 from total amount due. 
I got it last week. 
I'm paperless billing too. So I emailed [email protected] and they are giving me the credit off amount owed.


----------



## phrelin

whatchel1 said:


> It states on back $10 from total amount due.
> I got it last week.
> I'm paperless billing too. So I emailed [email protected] and they are giving me the credit off amount owed.


Well, hurrumph. I didn't get one yet!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jclewter79 said:


> 2-1-08 no 7 new channels in Feb. As expected


Did you go back in time this morning?

It is 3-1-08 where I live


----------



## jclewter79

you got me HDMe, but channels look the same a month later.


----------



## jclewter79

whatchel1 said:


> It states on back $10 from total amount due.
> I got it last week.
> I'm paperless billing too. So I emailed [email protected] and they are giving me the credit off amount owed.


Does it state why these are being sent out? I remember in the past they have been sent out to smooth over the price increases. I wonder if these are being sent to customers with DVR Advantage since we will not be seeing a price increase this year? Or, if these are only being sent HD customers to keep people from jumping ship?


----------



## chips4s

Has anyone heard about this? What's the best way to get a real answer from Dish? This was brought up during Sept 10th Charlie Chat questions and the answer was by the end of the year - the year was 2007 by the way...


----------



## peak_reception

I think we'll get all those new HD channels once Winter finally ends here in the upper Midwest. In other words, seemingly never. :nono2:


----------



## Presence

rey_1178 said:


> feb 29th. nothing. lies all lies. get out of my head! :bang :bonk1:


I am confused. Were there promises of something in February?


----------



## rey_1178

Presence said:


> I am confused. Were there promises of something in February?


YES a member posted that a dish rep online informed him of 7 new channels in feb. he pasted the online chat session but i guess it was bs.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Presence said:


> I am confused. Were there promises of something in February?


I'm not aware of any official Dish promises of anything except for the promise of more HD in 2008... which could happen anytime between now and December 31st. I'm sure, however, we'll see something earlier than the last day of the year.


----------



## jclewter79

Someone in here had posted that a CSR had told them 7 new channels by the end of Feb. No official announcment though.


----------



## James Long

Probably a good reason not to repeat promises (or at least not to trust them) that are not announcements from DISH of some kind (press releases, CES statements, investor releases, televised comments). Normally I'd put advertising in that list but even that can be suspect.


----------



## peak_reception

Being a CSR for DISH wouldn't be an easy job there days with everything changing all the time. Can't really blame them for getting some stuff mixed up.


----------



## whatchel1

The only clue I have as to why I received the $10 gift cert is the following lines: As our programmers continue to enhance and add new channels, including a growing selection of HD entertainment, their cost of doing business goes up: in turn so does ours. So while we work hard to keep our costs low through innovative business improvements, we simply cannot offset the unavoidable expense of the television programming fees.


----------



## jclewter79

Huh, that is interesting, did it come with your bill?


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Probably a good reason not to repeat promises (or at least not to trust them) that are not announcements from DISH of some kind (press releases, CES statements, investor releases, televised comments). Normally I'd put advertising in that list but even that can be suspect.


So basically we should expect...1 announcement a year (maybe) at CES?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> Probably a good reason not to repeat promises (or at least not to trust them) that are not announcements from DISH of some kind (press releases, CES statements, investor releases, televised comments). Normally I'd put advertising in that list but even that can be suspect.


Agreed... Not to bash CSRs, but anything a CSR says with regards to future content should be taken with the same level of "guarantee" as you would accept the word of a Best Buy cashier making statements about Best Buy Corporation.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> So basically we should expect...1 announcement a year (maybe) at CES?


I'm of the mind that we should not expect anything but what we have. I'm in the camp that doesn't feel I am owed anything but what was offered when I signed up. As long as they give me what I'm paying for, then they are fulfilling their obligation to me.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> So basically we should expect...1 announcement a year (maybe) at CES?


'Expect' anything you want ... just don't make it sound like DISH 'broke a promise' for not meeting an expectation _they_ have not claimed ownership of. I expect regular updates, but DISH has not promised to meet that expectation.

CES isn't the only place where the CEO speaks or announcements are made ... so we shouldn't have to wait that long.


----------



## TBoneit

jclewter79 said:


> Does it state why these are being sent out? I remember in the past they have been sent out to smooth over the price increases. I wonder if these are being sent to customers with DVR Advantage since we will not be seeing a price increase this year? Or, if these are only being sent HD customers to keep people from jumping ship?


Can't be DVR advantage. I'm AEP & HD and got the $10 off coupon. On the back of mine it says "If you do not receive a monthly billing statement, follow instruction #2 above and mail this coupon to Dish network etc."

It just says 
Dish Network Gift Certificate
Ten Dollars
to Our Valued Customer
from Dish Network

As I read it I can send it back and get $10 off of my bill.


----------



## jclewter79

TBoneit said:


> Can't be DVR advantage. I'm AEP & HD and got the $10 off coupon. On the back of mine it says "If you do not receive a monthly billing statement, follow instruction #2 above and mail this coupon to Dish network etc."
> 
> It just says
> Dish Network Gift Certificate
> Ten Dollars
> to Our Valued Customer
> from Dish Network
> 
> As I read it I can send it back and get $10 off of my bill.


That makes sense, being that AEP saw the largest price hike. I am interested to see if I get one. I have not received my paper bill but, online in the important news section it does mention that I will not see a price increase this year due to DVR Advantage. I hope I get one but will understand if I don't.


----------



## whatchel1

It couldn't come with a bill since I'm a paperless customer. I emailed [email protected] and I won't have to send in anything. I'm also not on DVR advantage but on the AEP & HD as well.


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> I'm of the mind that we should not expect anything but what we have. I'm in the camp that doesn't feel I am owed anything but what was offered when I signed up. As long as they give me what I'm paying for, then they are fulfilling their obligation to me.


I am of the mind that as a customer paying them for monthly service, that they should keep us up to date with things, not one announcement of something that may show up in the next year.

I subscribe to Sirius and pay them monthly, and they always send me updates on what they are doing or plans.


----------



## jclewter79

Well, it is possible that you received it in a separate mailing since you do not get a bill. Seems like last time they sent me one of these it came in a bill. Guess I will see.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> 'Expect' anything you want ... just don't make it sound like DISH 'broke a promise' for not meeting an expectation _they_ have not claimed ownership of. I expect regular updates, but DISH has not promised to meet that expectation.
> 
> CES isn't the only place where the CEO speaks or announcements are made ... so we shouldn't have to wait that long.


Very good...and i know you can't believe CSR's..but they DO represent the company. So false info being out by them STILL represents the company. Chuck used to have a filter on their mouths, and they would say nothing, now it seems that they are getting so overran with complaints that they are doing they're own thing...and that DOES come down to his responsibility as as the CEO of the company.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> I am of the mind that as a customer paying them for monthly service, that they should keep us up to date with things, not one announcement of something that may show up in the next year.


A reminder, that is your expectation, not DISH's promise.

DISH will make announcements as events warrant. Apparently they have nothing to announce at this time.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> A reminder, that is your expectation, not DISH's promise.
> 
> DISH will make announcements as events warrant. Apparently they have nothing to announce at this time.


And they wonder why they had such a crappy 4th quarter

You always say that people are free to leave E*...they wont be missed. Well according to those 4th quarter reports...it seems like, they are missed, and what did E* say they thought the reason was? Lack....of.....new....HD:grin:

If I were them, i would be doing something to keep my subs, or expect a bad 1st quarter too.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> If I were them, i would be doing something to keep my subs, or expect a bad 1st quarter too.


They are reportedly doing both. 

Announced: Three satellite launches this year which will help improve HD offerings.
Announced: 100 channels by the end of the year - 100 local markets as well.

Unannounced: HD being tested now (proving capacity exists today) including channels D* doesn't have.

Comments to Shareholders: They expect 1Q to be weak.


----------



## lparsons21

I wouldn't count any of those as doing much to keep subscribers. The two announcements have about the same effect that Dish's announcements that everyone pooh poohed. I don't know anyone who shifted until the channels were actually there.

And unannounced means even less than that.

Considering that both are offering TV programming services for nearly the same cost, it takes a bit of doing to pay Dish the same money for less service. But I was willing to wait a reasonable amount of time for someone to say something official beyond those two very weak announcements. Charlie decided to disappear instead.

So I moved. At the day of cancellation, I had a pleasant conversation with retention and felt then that when my 2 years were up with Direct I would most likely move back to Dish as I like the equipment much more.

A bit later I get a call from someone else in retention. This was much less pleasant. Not only did they just out and out lie about which channels they had in HD, they wanted to argue with me. Then after I didn't pay the final bill that was marked to be paid by the credit card on file, they called me and while polite, they acted like their screwup was my fault.

This is not the way to retain customers, and it sure as heck isn't the way to get them to consider coming back.

So couple less service for literally the same money, at least some in retention not having a clue of about customer contacts and the lack of any official announcement to give any hope to more HD before the end of the year and you've got a formula for more cancellations and less new subscribers.

You cannot excuse business that is Dish for keeping their collective mouths shut. Bad business imo.


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> I wouldn't count any of those as doing much to keep subscribers. The two announcements have about the same effect that Dish's announcements that everyone pooh poohed. I don't know anyone who shifted until the channels were actually there.
> 
> And unannounced means even less than that.
> 
> Considering that both are offering TV programming services for nearly the same cost, it takes a bit of doing to pay Dish the same money for less service. But I was willing to wait a reasonable amount of time for someone to say something official beyond those two very weak announcements. Charlie decided to disappear instead.
> 
> So I moved. At the day of cancellation, I had a pleasant conversation with retention and felt then that when my 2 years were up with Direct I would most likely move back to Dish as I like the equipment much more.
> 
> A bit later I get a call from someone else in retention. This was much less pleasant. Not only did they just out and out lie about which channels they had in HD, they wanted to argue with me. Then after I didn't pay the final bill that was marked to be paid by the credit card on file, they called me and while polite, they acted like their screwup was my fault.
> 
> This is not the way to retain customers, and it sure as heck isn't the way to get them to consider coming back.
> 
> So couple less service for literally the same money, at least some in retention not having a clue of about customer contacts and the lack of any official announcement to give any hope to more HD before the end of the year and you've got a formula for more cancellations and less new subscribers.
> 
> You cannot excuse business that is Dish for keeping their collective mouths shut. Bad business imo.


Not to mention allowing CSR's to all of a sudden say when (supposedly) HD channels are coming, in order to try and keep subs. Also, have your sales people tell interested customers that once a channel is available in HD E* will have it, thats why they are the leader in HD....only to be told later (when noticing that D* and cable companies have those channels and you dont) by the retention dept., that when a channel becomes available TO DISH that it will be added.....lol....sales guy forgot to mention that


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> I am of the mind that as a customer paying them for monthly service, that they should keep us up to date with things, not one announcement of something that may show up in the next year.
> 
> I subscribe to Sirius and pay them monthly, and they always send me updates on what they are doing or plans.


Well, if you were paying to receive monthly updates then I'd agree with you... but we aren't. We are paying for monthly service... and that is what we are owed. Anything else is nice, but not required or to be expected. Plus, once your commitment is up, you aren't obligated to stay and you can go to the competitor if you think they are doing a better job.

Would you rather companies spend time announcing things or actually doing them? I would prefer they actually do things than to make plans and send out pretty notes that say what they are doing. I get a lot of junk mail and junk email so I have a habit of throwing out things that aren't bills or something immediately useful to me... so it's not like I'd really even notice if Dish sent me regular updates on things they may do in the future.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> Not to mention allowing CSR's to all of a sudden say when (supposedly) HD channels are coming, in order to try and keep subs. Also, have your sales people tell interested customers that once a channel is available in HD E* will have it, thats why they are the leader in HD....only to be told later (when noticing that D* and cable companies have those channels and you dont) by the retention dept., that when a channel becomes available TO DISH that it will be added.....lol....sales guy forgot to mention that


How do you know Dish is "allowing" this? Have you seen an internal memo that says for CSRs to intentionally mislead customers? It is more likely that CSRs get tired of answering the same questions over and over and start trying to say what the customer wants to hear to get them off the phone. I'm not saying it is right, but you're making a leap to saying it is supported company policy, and I'm not sure I'd go there at this point.

I agree management is responsible for employees and what employees do reflects upon the company... but neither you nor I know what CSRs are being encouraged or discouraged from doing... and we don't know if CSRs are caught doing what you say and are disciplined for misleading customers.


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> Well, if you were paying to receive monthly updates then I'd agree with you... but we aren't. We are paying for monthly service... and that is what we are owed. Anything else is nice, but not required or to be expected. Plus, once your commitment is up, you aren't obligated to stay and you can go to the competitor if you think they are doing a better job.
> 
> Would you rather companies spend time announcing things or actually doing them? I would prefer they actually do things than to make plans and send out pretty notes that say what they are doing. I get a lot of junk mail and junk email so I have a habit of throwing out things that aren't bills or something immediately useful to me... so it's not like I'd really even notice if Dish sent me regular updates on things they may do in the future.


Ahhh exactly, the other companies are telling they're customers what they are trying to do, and are doing it, cable companies and D* told their subs they were working on Sci fi, TWC, ect. and they did it....so i would rather have a company who spends time telling me what they are doing, and do it...instead of, saying nothing, doing nothing...it really is lack of consumer info, and it seems like E* is the only provider not talking....i guess if you dont have the chips, dont sit at the table?


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> How do you know Dish is "allowing" this? Have you seen an internal memo that says for CSRs to intentionally mislead customers? It is more likely that CSRs get tired of answering the same questions over and over and start trying to say what the customer wants to hear to get them off the phone. I'm not saying it is right, but you're making a leap to saying it is supported company policy, and I'm not sure I'd go there at this point.
> 
> I agree management is responsible for employees and what employees do reflects upon the company... but neither you nor I know what CSRs are being encouraged or discouraged from doing... and we don't know if CSRs are caught doing what you say and are disciplined for misleading customers.


my point being, they used to have the "say nothing" response, all of a sudden, they are popping off with channel numbers and round about dates...so i guess if E* isn't able to control the front lines of the company anymore, things are worse than I thought.

Like i said before, i was sitting back and being patient...but as i mentioned back in December....another month or two...ok...but if it ends up being March and we still haven't seen any additions, i'll be ticked....well here is march, 4 months later...and not 1 channel. It's just annoying to be paying the same amount D* people are, and not even getting the HD they are....and I hate it, because i like the equipment with E*...but come......on:nono:


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Ahhh exactly, the other companies are telling they're customers what they are trying to do, and are doing it, cable companies and D* told their subs they were working on Sci fi, TWC, ect. and they did it....


If everybody jumped off of the roof would you expect DISH to follow?

DISH is a leader - not a follower. :lol:



> so i would rather have a company who spends time telling me what they are doing, and do it...instead of, saying nothing, doing nothing...


Then (as we have been saying to you since October and to others before and after that) why don't you go sign up with a company that suits your needs?

Obviously there is something holding you back. Perhaps you're afraid that the day after you cancel (and pay any penalty) DISH will surprise us all?


----------



## HobbyTalk

I just don't really understand. The "official" information is that there will be new HD and 100 HD LiLs before the end of 2008. It would seem that is pretty clear. If that information doesn't satisfy then go to a provider that will give the information that is wanted.


----------



## rey_1178

James Long said:


> If everybody jumped off of the roof would you expect DISH to follow?
> 
> DISH is a leader - not a follower. :lol:
> 
> Then (as we have been saying to you since October and to others before and after that) why don't you go sign up with a company that suits your needs?
> 
> Obviously there is something holding you back. Perhaps you're afraid that the day after you cancel (and pay any penalty) DISH will surprise us all?


I think the point is that no one leaves because dish has always been superior to every one else. I've been with dish for 10 years now and I can tell you i'm not happy with the lack of info to the customers lately. It's important not to forget that without us dish wouldn't be here. That's all people are trying to say and for those of us who have been with dish for many years and have given them alot of our money in exchange for their services should be treated a little better than this. Info, not lack of HD content is what has people upset. The channels will come eventually but in the mean time share your future plans with those that have been loyal to you. :kisscheek


----------



## msmith198025

James Long said:


> DISH is a leader - not a follower. :lol:


Ive got a bunch of HD channels that say otherwise 
Right now anyway.


----------



## mtbarr64

Sorry I only have three days to decide and just found this forum. I will try to read through it all, but I need some feedback asap.

I am a long time Dishnetwork customer at 15 years.

I am tired of waiting for DN to get more HD channels.

I need honest feedback about when DN will really be adding a more extensive line up of HD and if they really have the Satellite capacity and channels for it.

With DirectTv's recent addition of 50 more HD channels and my annual renewal coming up, I am ready to jump ship since SCIFIHD is now on DirectTv.

For those in the know, please explain why I should not leave.

For the first time in 15 years, I am frustrated that DN has not been the leader in the products to the customer. I don't see any real investment being made. DirectTv has been launching new satellites and is providing the service now.

It is like a grocery store that does not carry what I want any more.

Please give me your honest and sincere feedback on this.

Yes, I am cross posting in both DN and DirectTV forums because I want to hear both sides.

Thanks!


----------



## TBoneit

HobbyTalk said:


> I just don't really understand. The "official" information is that there will be new HD and 100 HD LiLs before the end of 2008. It would seem that is pretty clear. If that information doesn't satisfy then go to a provider that will give the information that is wanted.


Nobody will say flat out we will have a channel until the deal is signed. To do otherwise is to give the other side a big advantage



mtbarr64 said:


> Snipped:
> 
> For the first time in 15 years, I am frustrated that DN has not been the leader in the products to the customer. I don't see any real investment being made. DirectTv has been launching new satellites and is providing the service now.
> 
> It is like a grocery store that does not carry what I want any more.
> 
> Please give me your honest and sincere feedback on this.
> 
> Yes, I am cross posting in both DN and DirectTV forums because I want to hear both sides.
> 
> Thanks!


Dishnetwork is launching three new satellites this year. That isn't a real investment? At least one of them was originally scheduled for last year and was one of many satellites that had their launch delayed due to the Sea launch explosion.


----------



## mtbarr64

Dang,

Wish I had found this forum before now...

Glad to see I am not the only one seeing this lack of infrastructure investment. I think they were so focused on the merger happening that they never planned for anything else.

Hopefully they will make up for it. Guess HD is off for now.


----------



## fredp

mtbarr64 said:


> For the first time in 15 years, I am frustrated that DN has not been the leader in the products to the customer. I don't see any real investment being made. DirectTv has been launching new satellites and is providing the service now.
> 
> It is like a grocery store that does not carry what I want any more.
> 
> Please give me your honest and sincere feedback on this.
> 
> Yes, I am cross posting in both DN and DirectTV forums because I want to hear both sides.
> 
> Thanks!


Well E* will launch a bird hopefully March 15.  A lot of us are anxious as you are. You say your annual membership is coming up. Can't you do a month by month with no commit (although I suspect a few $$ more). Give it til the beginning of summer to see what Charlie gives us. Plenty of us are looking for SCI-FI, Speed, FX and of course locals in HD if you are in a targeted market.


----------



## mtbarr64

TBoneit said:


> Dishnetwork is launching three new satellites this year. That isn't a real investment? At least one of them was originally scheduled for last year and was one of many satellites that had their launch delayed due to the Sea launch explosion.


I have not heard this. Why are they not advertising this to us the customers that more is coming?

Now I know this, but I had search the web to find this forum.


----------



## mtbarr64

fredp said:


> Well E* will launch a bird hopefully March 15.  A lot of us are anxious as you are. You say your annual membership is coming up. Can't you do a month by month with no commit (although I suspect a few $$ more). Give it til the beginning of summer to see what Charlie gives us. Plenty of us are looking for SCI-FI, Speed, FX and of course locals in HD if you are in a targeted market.


I have always just done the annual. Yeah, I can switch to M2M and see what happens.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> If everybody jumped off of the roof would you expect DISH to follow?
> 
> DISH is a leader - not a follower. :lol:
> 
> Then (as we have been saying to you since October and to others before and after that) why don't you go sign up with a company that suits your needs?
> 
> Obviously there is something holding you back. Perhaps you're afraid that the day after you cancel (and pay any penalty) DISH will surprise us all?


As any D* sub will tell you E* is NO LONGER the Leader in HD..sorry Charlie. The leader in DVR...yes...but as the subscriber numbers have shown...and E* has even admitted...lack of new HD is costing them...yes they will get more..i know that...

As i have told you before, i love the DVR and external option with E*, so i'm not leaving, but i hate the customer support and lack of info. I can be a E* sub and still complain about lack of wanted HD channels all i want.

perhaps all of us complainers should listen to your advice and go elsewhere? That way every quarter will look like the last one, or worse...I don't think your beloved Mr. Ergan would appreciate your advice towards his customers:lol:


----------



## Ron Barry

mtbarr64 said:


> Dang,
> 
> Wish I had found this forum before now...
> 
> Glad to see I am not the only one seeing this lack of infrastructure investment. I think they were so focused on the merger happening that they never planned for anything else.
> 
> Hopefully they will make up for it. Guess HD is off for now.


Actually mtbarr I think Tbonet was being sarcastic. Sometimes sarcism does not come through a post, but I could also be wrong.

Sending up 3 Sats this year is a large investment as was the transition to MPEG4 that both Dish and DirecTV are doing.

As to when Dish will be rolling out additional HD. Well that is question I don't think anyone has a real answer to. The only statement Dish has made has been this year. Based on the uplink Reports and rumors, there are channels being worked on. If you wonder around here you will see what those channels are. However, nothing is real to me until they roll out to the subs and no one knows when they will do this.

Basically it all comes down to how patient your are is in terms of the HD available from other sources and are you willing to go through pain of a provider switch. Given the commitment Dish has made in launching new Sats and reports posted in the forums more HD is coming.... So as others have indicated.. All comes down to personal choice... How much importance you place on getting the content. To some it is huge and very frustrating.. To others would love to see it but are not checking the guide daily. To the rest.. Well their is also ta group that does not care if it ever comes.. Just depends where you fall and if you like what you have today in terms of functionality and features. For me.. I like the features and functionality Dish provides for my use case and since most of my viewing is local HD content I am very happy. Others use different criteria so it really is a personal choice.

Bottom line.. To steal a line form my favorite movie "Field of Dreams"... If you build it, it will come.. Well Dish is building it and eventually more HD content will come. I know it is "He" instead of it.. But close enough.


----------



## rey_1178

I believe that dish was once the leader in HD and will be again.The launch of these new sats might take them there again. I truly believe that if dish launches there sats last year instead of the way things went down, these topics would not exist at this forum. They will lead again!:soapbox:


----------



## G Schmaltz

In my business, we've had 20 year customers. We are not, under any circumstances, going to tell them, or anyone else, specific details of our business plans. 

Sorry guys, we are not entitled to this information. This is war. E* is not gonna give anything up and you shouldn't expect it. On top of that, they can't possibly know if timelines will be met. They know you want to know what's going on. The best they can offer us are the press releases. 

You guys who have been loyal to E* for all these years...I'm betting it's greatly appreciated, but it won't buy you any more information.


----------



## lparsons21

G Schmaltz said:


> In my business, we've had 20 year customers. We are not under any circumstances going to tell them or anyone else specific details of our business plans.


Unless you think you need to in order to keep or gain customers. Then you'll talk about it a lot if you want to keep them and grow.

You are right though, we are/were not entitled to any information they don't want to give. But without information to make an informed decision to stay or go, going becomes a perceived better value.

It is just a business decision, loyalty to or from a business is a particular kind of BS!


----------



## tomcrown1

Charlie believes that dish future is with local HD offering. I expect that next month their will be 20 Locals added. As far a new national HD is concerned it may not happen untill the end of the year.


----------



## lparsons21

I think Charlie is wrong in that if it is true. I suspect there are far more people interested in SciFi, FX and USA than are in any local.


----------



## James Long

rey_1178 said:


> Info, not lack of HD content is what has people upset.


I disagree. We've been told that DISH is launching three satellites by the end of the year, will have 100 local HD markets by the end of the year and a 100 channel HD package by the end of the year. Yet there are a lot of informed people who remain apparently unhappy.



texaswolf said:


> As any D* sub will tell you E* is NO LONGER the Leader in HD..


So E* customers mean nothing to you?



tomcrown1 said:


> Charlie believes that dish future is with local HD offering. I expect that next month their will be 20 Locals added.


I like that expectation.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

My expectation is that people will complain no matter what Dish does... I am sure I will not be disappointed in that expectation


----------



## Ron Barry

lparsons21 said:


> I think Charlie is wrong in that if it is true. I suspect there are far more people interested in SciFi, FX and USA than are in any local.


Except if you are in the local area where the HD is being lit up.. Since you can't compare numbers... hard to say what statment is true but sure depends a lot on the areas that get the HD channels vs. number of subs that really want these channels in HD now...

My gut tells me.. HD locals would be #1 for a large percentage of subs. And overall if given a choice that number would far exceed the number of subs wanting SciFi, FX, USA over HD locals for their area.

Personally I don't know what the plan is.. but HD locals my guess is high on the priority list because.


----------



## donjoy44

It agravates me so much that I living in Ct pay the same amount of money for HD as a person living elsewhere when the other person gets their local in HD plus their RSN in HD I have no locals in Hd or my RSN in HD but pay the same for over 2 years now with no end in sight> How can this be fair and equal to all

Please give us our HD locals and are NESN RSN


----------



## texaswolf

> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> So E* customers mean nothing to you?
> 
> 
> 
> No, E* subs are aware of it i'm sure...i was using the D* subs, because they are the ones sitting at home enjoying all the HD that we (the leader) are wanting.
> 
> Question...you had mentioned that they have room on the current sat. for a few channels......how much of a pain is it to add channels on to that sat, and then once the new sat goes up, put the channels on the new one? Is this even a possibility, or something that would take to much time and money?
Click to expand...


----------



## nlk10010

lparsons21 said:


> I think Charlie is wrong in that if it is true. I suspect there are far more people interested in SciFi, FX and USA than are in any local.


There are people interested more in HD locals than national HD (especially of course if E* doesn't have yours) and there are people who are interested more in national HD.

It's not clear whether E* feels it can serve both types of people or only one. D* has apparently been able to do both but E* is not D*.

Short, don't expect anything from Dish since whatever announcements they have made have been so imprecise as to be meaningless. They'll do something, of course, but who knows what? If you want national HD and can switch, then do so. Yes it can be a pain and the equipment is probably not as good but you can't have everything: make a choice.


----------



## texaswolf

nlk10010 said:


> There are people interested more in HD locals than national HD (especially of course if E* doesn't have yours) and there are people who are interested more in national HD.
> 
> It's not clear whether E* feels it can serve both types of people or only one. D* has apparently been able to do both but E* is not D*.
> 
> Short, don't expect anything from Dish since whatever announcements they have made have been so imprecise as to be meaningless. They'll do something, of course, but who knows what? If you want national HD and can switch, then do so. Yes it can be a pain and the equipment is probably not as good but you can't have everything: make a choice.


The "switch if you don't like it" attitude is what cost them a MUCH lower number of subs at the end of last year, and more than likely the beginning of this year. If in fact E* knows they aren't getting new channels out until the second half of 2008, they should have came up with a plan to help keep subs...deals for new subs, they offered, but deals for existing subs might have helped also. When you admit the projection loss is due to lack of new HD, then you need to offer something instead of more coming sometime in the next year. Since HD was the issue, offer lower rates until the new sats are up, or at least half the year...some kind of incentive for people looking around.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Question...you had mentioned that they have room on the current sat. for a few channels......how much of a pain is it to add channels on to that sat, and then once the new sat goes up, put the channels on the new one? Is this even a possibility, or something that would take to much time and money?


Have you not been paying attention at all or are you just playing dumb to keep the argument going? There are seven known channels (although at last report the two on 110° were slate sized). Obviously it is no trouble at all to have unavailable HD feeds up on the satellites. Whatever is holding back these channels isn't a matter of bandwidth. (How many months have I been saying that?)



texaswolf said:


> The "switch if you don't like it" attitude is what cost them a MUCH lower number of subs at the end of last year, and more than likely the beginning of this year.


I'm looking forward to when you own a satellite carrier. You seem to know more about DISH network than the CEO. According to him there were many factors, including the economy, that slowed DISH's _growth_ in the last quarter. They still pulled in a decent profit and ended up _increasing_ the number of subscribers ... even in a 'bad quarter'.

The same economic effects hurt DirecTV, except DirecTV had an 'economic stimulus package' in place. Discounted subscriptions and equipment (tied to commitments that last longer than the discounts). Apparently DirecTV wants people to spend their way through a possible recession ... and in 4Q 2007 people were still in the mood to spend more money (with the illusion of saving money). And somehow even DirecTV _lost_ 711k subscribers in 4Q 2007 (fortunately, just like DISH, DirecTV was able to replace every lost customer).

DISH would have done better if they had more to tempt their customers to overspend on - perhaps even sharing DirecTV's net additions. But they have not failed as a company.


----------



## tomcrown1

One theory is that Dish have to keep space open incease the FCC makes Dish carry all of the local HD feed---could this be why we will not see new national HD channels untill Dish gets more bandwidth??


----------



## texaswolf

> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you not been paying attention at all or are you just playing dumb to keep the argument going? There are seven known channels (although at last report the two on 110° were slate sized). Obviously it is no trouble at all to have unavailable HD feeds up on the satellites. Whatever is holding back these channels isn't a matter of bandwidth. (How many months have I been saying that?)
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was a serious question...so i guess i'm just dumb :bang . No need for you to get all huffy puffy...it's just a conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to when you own a satellite carrier. You seem to know more about DISH network than the CEO. According to him there were many factors, including the economy, that slowed DISH's _growth_ in the last quarter. They still pulled in a decent profit and ended up _increasing_ the number of subscribers ... even in a 'bad quarter'.
> 
> The same economic effects hurt DirecTV, except DirecTV had an 'economic stimulus package' in place. Discounted subscriptions and equipment (tied to commitments that last longer than the discounts). Apparently DirecTV wants people to spend their way through a possible recession ... and in 4Q 2007 people were still in the mood to spend more money (with the illusion of saving money). And somehow even DirecTV _lost_ 711k subscribers in 4Q 2007 (fortunately, just like DISH, DirecTV was able to replace every lost customer).
> 
> DISH would have done better if they had more to tempt their customers to overspend on - perhaps even sharing DirecTV's net additions. But they have not failed as a company.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want you to read back through my post and point out where i said they have failed as a company...that thought popped up in your own head, im strictly speaking about the HD part of it, you feel the need to take a personal hit for E* and think i'm talking about everything they do....pay attention here a minute.
> 
> I was simply saying they could have done more to bring in or keep subs since they knew they weren't adding anything anytime soon.. yes they did say housing slowdown was ONE reason but.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dish officials said the housing slowdown was one reason for the sub decrease, but added that the expansion of high-def services from DIRECTV and other TV providers has made it more difficult to attract new customers. http://www.tvpredictions.com/dishhd022608.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Knowing that way before the end of 2007, they could have had a better strategy...it doesn't take me owning the company dude...there are millions of people out there that can tell you companies could have made better decisions...it's all based on opinions...don't take it so personal
Click to expand...


----------



## rey_1178

Originally Posted by James Long View Post
Have you not been paying attention at all or are you just playing dumb to keep the argument going? There are seven known channels (although at last report the two on 110° were slate sized). Obviously it is no trouble at all to have unavailable HD feeds up on the satellites. Whatever is holding back these channels isn't a matter of bandwidth. (How many months have I been saying that?)


I would expect out of a leader at this website better words than those Mr. James Long. I've always found your posts to be intelligent but that was a little rough :bonk1:


----------



## James Long

rey_1178 said:


> I would expect out of a leader at this website better words than those Mr. James Long. I've always found your posts to be intelligent but that was a little rough :bonk1:


Sorry. I also consider texaswolf's posts to be generally intelligent ... but we have been discussing the seven "in hiding" HD channels enough that it appears he was just _playing_ dumb. I don't believe he is dumb.



texaswolf said:


> I was simply saying they could have done more to bring in or keep subs since they knew they weren't adding anything anytime soon..


And I cannot disagree in any stronger terms. What could they have said back in September 2007 that would have helped. "The couple of HD channels we're adding this month is the last that you will see until March of next year (or later)?" If they would have said that there would have been even more of a negative impact.

Instead they did what they did. They made no promises that they had to keep (they still have broken promises from 2006 if anyone cares). In 4Q 2008 they advertised _what they had_ in the best possible light, put their best foot forward and hoped that the customers who care about HD would continue to trust them. And they managed to end the quarter without a net loss of customers and with a profit for the shareholders.

I mention you owning the company, texaswolf, because it is an interesting question. What would you have done different? Would you have given monthly statements about the channels coming "soon" that would still not be on the service today? Please don't tell me that you would have those channels active --- you can't tell me why those channels are not active so you certainly cannot tell me how you would do anything different to get them online.

The only thing we have eliminated as a reason is capacity.


----------



## HobbyTalk

texaswolf said:


> The "switch if you don't like it" attitude is what cost them a MUCH lower number of subs at the end of last year,


You might want to qualify that better. E* did not have much lower subs, what they had was a smaller increase in subs over previous quarters. Considering that every major cable system except one had lower TOTAL subs at the end of 2007 compared to end of 2006, any increase could be considered good.


----------



## texaswolf

> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. I also consider texaswolf's posts to be generally intelligent ... but we have been discussing the seven "in hiding" HD channels enough that it appears he was just _playing_ dumb. I don't believe he is dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly didn't notice the hiding channel stuff, i jumped in on another subject, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I cannot disagree in any stronger terms. What could they have said back in September 2007 that would have helped. "The couple of HD channels we're adding this month is the last that you will see until March of next year (or later)?" If they would have said that there would have been even more of a negative impact.
> 
> Instead they did what they did. They made no promises that they had to keep (they still have broken promises from 2006 if anyone cares). In 4Q 2008 they advertised _what they had_ in the best possible light, put their best foot forward and hoped that the customers who care about HD would continue to trust them. And they managed to end the quarter without a net loss of customers and with a profit for the shareholders.
> 
> I mention you owning the company, texaswolf, because it is an interesting question. What would you have done different? Would you have given monthly statements about the channels coming "soon" that would still not be on the service today? Please don't tell me that you would have those channels active --- you can't tell me why those channels are not active so you certainly cannot tell me how you would do anything different to get them online.
> 
> The only thing we have eliminated as a reason is capacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If In November I knew we had no shot of adding anymore for close to a year, and my subs were already mad at not having the most requested channels, I would have advertised something like:
> 
> We here at Dish hold our customers in very high regard, but unfortunately accidents happen, and our new satellite which was to be carrying our new HD channels, will be delayed for an unknow time. However we are committed to our customers, and would like to offer you some special deals while we work to once again be your leader in HD.
> 
> and then go into the package deals, where for 6 months to a year people can upgrade to the next tier to enjoy more HD channels at a nothing to low cost....then once the new sats are up, revamp the packages...basically offer the HD folks a deal to keep them, and sweeten up the new sub deal, until my birds were in the air and ready to light.
> 
> Sometimes a little humble pie as a company will earn you more respect and commitment from more people.
> 
> ***and yes i know it's not that simple, but it's a start.
Click to expand...


----------



## texaswolf

HobbyTalk said:


> You might want to qualify that better. E* did not have much lower subs, what they had was a smaller increase in subs over previous quarters. Considering that every major cable system except one had lower TOTAL subs at the end of 2007 compared to end of 2006, any increase could be considered good.


qualify or clarify?

Sorry thats what I meant. I should have said potential subs...they fell way short of the projections

***on a quick side note, and because i'm to lazy to look around...does anyone know if the 722 handles more than one external at a time, or is that a later model plan?***


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> And I cannot disagree in any stronger terms. What could they have said back in September 2007 that would have helped. "The couple of HD channels we're adding this month is the last that you will see until March of next year (or later)?" If they would have said that there would have been even more of a negative impact.


IMHO, they in fact should have told it like it is. That is precisely what their sat competitor did, and that strategy of letting people know their plans has paid off. they certainly wouln't have this much angst among its tribe if they did.

You have your opinion, others have their own.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> and then go into the package deals, where for 6 months to a year people can upgrade to the next tier to enjoy more HD channels at a nothing to low cost....then once the new sats are up, revamp the packages...basically offer the HD folks a deal to keep them, and sweeten up the new sub deal, until my birds were in the air and ready to light.


Good! You have a plan. Often people who complain about how a company is operating have no plan of their own.

As for your plan ... note that every time there is a free preview of a few channels there are complaints from those already paying for the channels. Giving free previews of "the next tier" would not help those at the highest tier and would likely just tick them off. It also reduces revenue. DISH only had an average revenue per subscriber of $65.83 last year (compare to DirecTV's $79.05). While members of this forum are focused on "keeping the customer happy" the CEO's job is to keep the shareholders happy.

You are correct that the market does tend to use giveaways and temporary rewards to woo customers. I think of those like a balloon mortgage ... for the customers it is nice to have the reduced payments for a while but then the full price hits and after the 2009 price increase there will be a lot of annoyed people paying a lot more for their DirecTV service than they are under the special deals signed before February 27th still locked in until 2010 on their contracts. Meanwhile everyone expects DISH's lineup to be comparable by 2009. The one constant is that customers who were "bribed" to sign up will want more gimmies when they are unhappy later. In a way, that is DirecTV's balloon problem ...



texaswolf said:


> ***on a quick side note, and because i'm to lazy to look around...does anyone know if the 722 handles more than one external at a time, or is that a later model plan?***


Sorry ... only one USB item can be active at one time. You can have as many external drives as you like on the 622 and 722 ... but only one can be connected at a time.



DirecTV-Sub said:


> IMHO, they in fact should have told it like it is. That is precisely what their sat competitor did, and that strategy of letting people know their plans has paid off. they certainly wouln't have this much angst among its tribe if they did.


Not really. DirecTV lost roughly (within 20k) the same number of subscribers in 2007 as they did in 2006. The promise of new HD didn't stop people from leaving DirecTV. Why would promises help DISH?


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Good! You have a plan. Often people who complain about how a company is operating have no plan of their own.
> 
> As for your plan ... note that every time there is a free preview of a few channels there are complaints from those already paying for the channels. Giving free previews of "the next tier" would not help those at the highest tier and would likely just tick them off. It also reduces revenue. DISH only had an average revenue per subscriber of $65.83 last year (compare to DirecTV's $79.05). While members of this forum are focused on "keeping the customer happy" the CEO's job is to keep the shareholders happy.
> 
> You are correct that the market does tend to use giveaways and temporary rewards to woo customers. I think of those like a balloon mortgage ... for the customers it is nice to have the reduced payments for a while but then the full price hits and after the 2009 price increase there will be a lot of annoyed people paying a lot more for their DirecTV service than they are under the special deals signed before February 27th still locked in until 2010 on their contracts. Meanwhile everyone expects DISH's lineup to be comparable by 2009. The one constant is that customers who were "bribed" to sign up will want more gimmies when they are unhappy later. In a way, that is DirecTV's balloon problem ...


I figured for the top tier i would knock off some on the monthly price, the bonus of this would be once people jumped a tier or two, then when the new sats went up, they may be reluctant to drop back down...but either way it would just be a good faith gesture towards the customer...who knows:shrug:



> Sorry ... only one USB item can be active at one time. You can have as many external drives as you like on the 622 and 722 ... but only one can be connected at a time.


ahhh ok thanks, I figured but thought i'd ask....hopefully they will have it as an option soon.


----------



## HobbyTalk

texaswolf said:


> Sorry thats what I meant. I should have said potential subs...they fell way short of the projections


I think the economy is having a far bigger effect then the lack of HD. D* has already downgraded their projected 2008 subscriber numbers from 18M to middle 17M to 18M. They currently had 16,8M 2007 year end so that would mean only about 700K extra subs... even with the HD advantage. That is below previous years. E* gained 680K subscribers in 2007.


----------



## texaswolf

HobbyTalk said:


> I think the economy is having a far bigger effect then the lack of HD. D* has already downgraded their projected 2008 subscriber numbers from 18M to middle 17M to 18M. They currently had 16,8M 2007 year end so that would mean only about 700K extra subs... even with the HD advantage. That is below previous years. E* gained 680K subscribers in 2007.


I see what your saying...I just have a hard time buying into the whole economy is bad thing...people are still buying things like crazy...everyone complains about gas prices, and still go out and buy SUV's and muscle cars. I think the numbers this year will be more telling of the trend last quarter started...if they indeed do wait until the second half of the year.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Economy isn't bad? On average... Housing prices have dropped 20%. Home loan defaults have risen 150% over last year. Car sales from all manufacturers except Honda is down. Fuel prices up 80% over last year. Average household income has dropped 10%. Of course some locals are doing OK but the majority aren't.


----------



## texaswolf

HobbyTalk said:


> Economy isn't bad? On average... Housing prices have dropped 20%. Home loan defaults have risen 150% over last year. Car sales from all manufacturers except Honda is down. Fuel prices up 80% over last year. Average household income has dropped 10%. Of course some locals are doing OK but the majority aren't.


I guess it depends on where your at. I'm from Michigan and the economy sucks there...that is primarily the fault of the way the state is ran....but here in TX (DFW) everyone is driving SUV's...the home loans defaults are due to people getting themselves into too big of loans, and bad rates, houses don't last long on the market (and the estimates keep rising)....gas has just topped $3 a gallon (but i keep seeing new muscle cars and SUV's)...of course this whole area is growing...so yeah, it depends on the area. On the flip side, you would thing people wouldn't go out and spend lots of money and say home to enjoy HDTV....lol


----------



## James Long

As noted earlier, the signups between 2006 and 2007 for DirecTV were virtually the same ... even with the "HD surge" at the end of the year. DirecTV added 820k net in 2006 and 878k net in 2007 (ending 2007 at 16.831 million). It would be quite an increase to break 18 million.

If there isn't a problem with the economy why is the government sending me a check as part of a stimulus package?


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> As noted earlier, the signups between 2006 and 2007 for DirecTV were virtually the same ... even with the "HD surge" at the end of the year. DirecTV added 820k net in 2006 and 878k net in 2007 (ending 2007 at 16.831 million). It would be quite an increase to break 18 million.
> 
> If there isn't a problem with the economy why is the government sending me a check as part of a stimulus package?


No i know that, i'm just saying i don't see it as big of a deal as some make it out to be(not on here, just in general)....but as stated above, when not having to face a lot of those issues on a daily basis, it's easy to overlook. I do here the horror stories from Michigan, but as i said, the state government is horrid.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> If there isn't a problem with the economy why is the government sending me a check as part of a stimulus package?


Even if there is a problem, why are they sending _me_ a check? I guess so I can buy a 722?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> I see what your saying...I just have a hard time buying into the whole economy is bad thing...people are still buying things like crazy...everyone complains about gas prices, and still go out and buy SUV's and muscle cars. I think the numbers this year will be more telling of the trend last quarter started...if they indeed do wait until the second half of the year.


People don't always react to a crisis the way you think they will... Where I am there is a real reason to believe we could run out of palatable drinking water. We are on severe water restrictions, and yet new home construction is still happening... which will bring in more people to consume water we already don't have.

Meanwhile, people are concerned because they can't water their lawns... not because they might not have shower or drinking water in a few months, but because their grass might turn brown...

So when gas prices go up, it doesn't surprise me to see SUVs on the road, because people would have already been conserving and driving wisely if that was their nature.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> Not really. DirecTV lost roughly (within 20k) the same number of subscribers in 2007 as they did in 2006. The promise of new HD didn't stop people from leaving DirecTV. Why would promises help DISH?


It's my opinion, OK?

You NEVER saw the uneasiness pervading the threads as you see now by DN customers. NEVER!


----------



## James Long

DirecTV-Sub said:


> It's my opinion, OK?
> 
> You NEVER saw the uneasiness pervading the threads as you see now by DN customers. NEVER!


For a new member you claim to know about the past? Have you been lurking for two/three years and finally join in order to make posts? You apparently missed the angry WHEN posts over in the DirecTV forums. "NEVER" would be hard to prove. 

Of course it's your opinion if the "anger level" of those posts is as high as the ones currently being made in the DISH forums. A few months removed hindsight softens things. DirecTV's current HD lineup goes a long way toward earning forgiveness for the years it took for them to get it launched.


----------



## Ron Barry

DirecTV-Sub said:


> It's my opinion, OK?
> 
> You NEVER saw the uneasiness pervading the threads as you see now by DN customers. NEVER!


Hmmm... What is the saying.. Never say Never... Definitley an opinion and one I disagree with but my opinion is also subjective based on being here for a number of years and reading a heck of a lot of threads....

I personally have seen more uneasiness and frustration with a number of other issues over the years. Some that come to mind is when they announced firewire will not be supported on the 921, Dish lowering their transmissions resolution (commenly referred to HD-LITE), uneasyiness with each release of the 921 to name a few. Lets not go down those roads again but in my opinon these all were higher in the uneasiness scale than adding some HD channels. Also higher on the frustration scale.. Ofcourse this is my opinion based on my recall of those events.

Yes you have a right to your opinion...But I find it odd that a self proclaimed D* sub would make such a statement. I have spent a lot of time here over the last couple of years moderating and watching both sides of the fence and I can't make any statement like that about D* or would I .......


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

What I said is I believe that DN could have handled this MUCH BETTER. It's my opinion, I'll stick with it. Perhaps the biggest complaint I read is NOT that they aren't putting new channels up, it's that they SUCK at communicating what is going on.

And, I was referred to this place at another forum where I have been a member for 2 years. Being new here, doesn't mean someone is not up on things. Is that ok with you?


----------



## TulsaOK

James Long said:


> As noted earlier, the signups between 2006 and 2007 for DirecTV were virtually the same ... even with the "HD surge" at the end of the year. DirecTV added 820k net in 2006 and 878k net in 2007 (ending 2007 at 16.831 million). It would be quite an increase to break 18 million.
> 
> If there isn't a problem with the economy why is the government sending me a check as part of a stimulus package?


Some people think that if they're not having a problem or feeling the effects of a bad economy, then no one should be having a problem. My next door neighbor just bought a new Jaguar convertible so the economy must be pretty good (sarcasm). It's a forest - trees thing. Your tree looks good, but the forest sucks.


----------



## phrelin

It's interesting - *the* check arrives just as the great government forced digital changeover causes many to think about a HDTV.... Maybe they will spend it!


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> Sorry. I also consider texaswolf's posts to be generally intelligent ... but we have been discussing the seven "in hiding" HD channels enough that it appears he was just _playing_ dumb. I don't believe he is dumb.
> 
> And I cannot disagree in any stronger terms. What could they have said back in September 2007 that would have helped. "The couple of HD channels we're adding this month is the last that you will see until March of next year (or later)?" If they would have said that there would have been even more of a negative impact.
> 
> Instead they did what they did. They made no promises that they had to keep (they still have broken promises from 2006 if anyone cares). In 4Q 2008 they advertised _what they had_ in the best possible light, put their best foot forward and hoped that the customers who care about HD would continue to trust them. And they managed to end the quarter without a net loss of customers and with a profit for the shareholders.
> 
> I mention you owning the company, texaswolf, because it is an interesting question. What would you have done different? Would you have given monthly statements about the channels coming "soon" that would still not be on the service today? Please don't tell me that you would have those channels active --- you can't tell me why those channels are not active so you certainly cannot tell me how you would do anything different to get them online.
> 
> The only thing we have eliminated as a reason is capacity.


Don't mean to butt in here (but I will LOL) but I would have been open and honest.

Why not give us a "best guess" schedule for more HD?

Most of us are reasonable people and understand that Sat launches are out of their control. Yes it could be said (and I have LOL) that if Dish would have not sat on their butts as the "leader in HD" while D* had new HD sat on the launch schedule then they would not be in this mess but that's water under the bridge.

I've never been an advocate for keeping people in the dark. Yes Charlie took a serious hit on the old 501/508/510 NBR issue but a delay in new HD due to lauch problems is a far different beast as compared to the technical issues in trying to make the old 501 tech work with something it was not designed.

So a simple public statement such as....

"We are awaiting launch of our new HD Sat which is scheduled to launch in a few months. This schedule has been delayed due to lauch failures that are not under out control and their can be future delays. Our current plan is to offer up to 10 new HD channels once that launch is complete. Until that time, and as a token of our appreciation to our loyal customers, we are going to offer you a free PPV movie each month"

or some other "cheap freebie" - the point is that they "could" be more open and honest without appearing weak on HD. With at least some "official" hope for more and better HD they would keep many customers who would see an oficial light at the end of the tunnel and the free PPV (would cost them very little as many people would still not use it and those that do would cost them maybe a buck or two each month)

This path to more open communication would go a long way to keeping that "little guy company that cares about their customers" that Dish used to cherrish. Yes it's a little naive but there are other ways to do it.

So while some may claim that admitting that new HD is 6 months away will upset people, I maintain that keeping people in the dark for so long only encourages them to switch to D* because they know what is available from them right now and there is nothing except 3rd hand information as to when Dish will get back into the HD game.

My two or three cents 

-JB


----------



## lparsons21

jrb531 said:


> So while some may claim that admitting that new HD is 6 months away will upset people, I maintain that keeping people in the dark for so long only encourages them to switch to D* because they know what is available from them right now and there is nothing except 3rd hand information as to when Dish will get back into the HD game.
> 
> My two or three cents
> 
> -JB


That lack of communication is exactly the reason me and my checkbook walked over the Direct. I waited to see what E* would do, saw the announcements at CES, noticed some channels were being uplinked but not available, and kept waiting.

Until the 1st of February. Then I figured if it wasn't important enough to E* to talk to me about something a heck of a lot less vague than 'in 2008', It wasn't important enough to stay.

So I miss my Vip622, but I enjoy all the new HD on a worse receiver. :hurah:


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> People don't always react to a crisis the way you think they will... Where I am there is a real reason to believe we could run out of palatable drinking water. We are on severe water restrictions, and yet new home construction is still happening... which will bring in more people to consume water we already don't have.
> 
> Meanwhile, people are concerned because they can't water their lawns... not because they might not have shower or drinking water in a few months, but because their grass might turn brown...
> 
> So when gas prices go up, it doesn't surprise me to see SUVs on the road, because people would have already been conserving and driving wisely if that was their nature.


right...and that was pretty much my point...according to stats the Economy is screwed up, but what are people actually doing? Auto sales may be down, yet the top two selling vehicles are still pick up trucks, despite reported wage drops and gas prices...people will still buy and spend...thats what i meaning when i said i don't think economy took an effect on HD additions. HDTV sales climbed 60% in the 4th qtr. of 2007...those people will want HD programming...thats what i was talking about...but you are very correct in your post.



> Some people think that if they're not having a problem or feeling the effects of a bad economy, then no one should be having a problem. My next door neighbor just bought a new Jaguar convertible so the economy must be pretty good (sarcasm). It's a forest - trees thing. Your tree looks good, but the forest sucks.


Also depends on how you look at the forest. Sometimes it's dark and gloomy, then the sun comes back out...and so forth.


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> That lack of communication is exactly the reason me and my checkbook walked over the Direct. I waited to see what E* would do, saw the announcements at CES, noticed some channels were being uplinked but not available, and kept waiting.
> 
> Until the 1st of February. Then I figured if it wasn't important enough to E* to talk to me about something a heck of a lot less vague than 'in 2008', It wasn't important enough to stay.
> 
> So I miss my Vip622, but I enjoy all the new HD on a worse receiver. :hurah:


lack of communication and new HD is enough for me to leave also, however the receiver and external option is enough for me to stay....i like to record too many movies for convenient viewing.

When i switched over to satellite I did my homework and asked E* about channels I was looking forward to being in HD, and being told they would be added as soon as they go HD "thats why we are the leader"...i went with E*...he also used it against D* "they have been saying they are going to add all those HD channels, and they haven't...when those channels are actually available in HD, Dish will have them, THATS why we are the leader".

I would think that claiming that to potential subs, and then not following through, they would offer something to help keep people, as we have suggested above. Other options are for people to buy out the rest of their contract...but why in the hell would anyone want to pay more money to a company already not giving them what they want, just to get away?


----------



## lparsons21

texaswolf said:


> lack of communication and new HD is enough for me to leave also, however the receiver and external option is enough for me to stay....i like to record too many movies for convenient viewing.


External HD is also on Direct's HDDVRs, although they use eSata instead of USB. Good side is that it doesn't cost anything to use it, even the first time.

I like the Vip series of HDDVRs much more than Direct's, but not enough more to miss SciFi in HD, among others...

Still has the same issues that E's do. If the receiver dies, the stuff on the external drive is not available anymore.


----------



## lionsrule

rey_1178 said:


> i woke up today hoping that maybe at least 1 channel was added to our hd lineup but nothing. it has been a disappointing year for e* hd.


How have your hopes been going for the last two and 1/2 months?


----------



## Jim5506

James Long said:


> If there isn't a problem with the economy why is the government sending me a check as part of a stimulus package?


Because all politicians know how to do is throw good money after bad.

That's their answer to all our problems, tax the "RICH" give to the "POOR" and when were all the "POOR" they'll just print more money.

There has never been a solution that a politician could not come up with a problem for it to solve.


----------



## lamp525

lionsrule said:


> How have your hopes been going for the last two and 1/2 months?


sad so sad


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> External HD is also on Direct's HDDVRs, although they use eSata instead of USB. Good side is that it doesn't cost anything to use it, even the first time.
> 
> I like the Vip series of HDDVRs much more than Direct's, but not enough more to miss SciFi in HD, among others...
> 
> Still has the same issues that E's do. If the receiver dies, the stuff on the external drive is not available anymore.


when did they ad that option?


----------



## Ron Barry

Actually as far as the receiver dying and the data not being available. That is not true with 622/722. Dish does allow up to 3 swaps right now and people have been able to swap out a receiver and still retain access to drives data from the previous receiver. 

But we are wondering off topic here guys.. so lets wonder back on


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

Ron Barry said:


> Hmmm... What is the saying.. Never say Never... Definitley an opinion and one I disagree with but my opinion is also subjective based on being here for a number of years and reading a heck of a lot of threads....
> 
> I personally have seen more uneasiness and frustration with a number of other issues over the years. Some that come to mind is when they announced firewire will not be supported on the 921, Dish lowering their transmissions resolution (commenly referred to HD-LITE), uneasyiness with each release of the 921 to name a few. Lets not go down those roads again but in my opinon these all were higher in the uneasiness scale than adding some HD channels. Also higher on the frustration scale.. Ofcourse this is my opinion based on my recall of those events.
> 
> Yes you have a right to your opinion...But I find it odd that a self proclaimed D* sub would make such a statement. I have spent a lot of time here over the last couple of years moderating and watching both sides of the fence and I can't make any statement like that about D* or would I .......


First - I am a former (until 2 months ago) 7 year DN customer, I know of what I speak. I speak of the total frustration I had by not getting any info, or any new channels.

I can make more true statements about DN than DIRECTV - believe me.

Don't find it so odd - I didn't like the direction the company is going, and the false hopes they are giving out. Heck their website STILL SAYS they have TWICE as many HD channels as anyone else. Can you believe that?
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/learn_about/index.shtml

Just click tab #2. If that false stuff doesn't bother you, what does?


----------



## jrb531

Jim5506 said:


> Because all politicians know how to do is throw good money after bad.
> 
> That's their answer to all our problems, tax the "RICH" give to the "POOR" and when were all the "POOR" they'll just print more money.
> 
> There has never been a solution that a politician could not come up with a problem for it to solve.


Well at the risk of getting political (which is not allowed here or so I'm told LOL) I could balance that Rich Vs Poor by asking all those who have lost their jobs in the past few years due to the "Rich" companies moving overseas and other "get out of paying taxes" schemes that some comapnies do how they feel about this.

Could mix it with some of the companies that fiegn bankruptcy to get out of paying retirements benefits.

Shall I go on?

For sure the governement likes to take money from people and distribute it to whatever they want be it smart or dumb but I think there is enough injustice in the world to go around without trying to pin it on evil poor people taking the hard working rich persons money.

Someone works in a factory their entire life and then the company either files for bankruptcy or moves overseas leaving them in ruin. I seldom see the very rich losing their jobs... seems they are always taken care of when factories close, businesses merge, downsizing, relocation.... you name it. Those at the top have their golden parachutes. Those at the bottom lose everything. Not everyone who is living on limited means is a lazy do-nothing looking for handouts.

-JB


----------



## HobbyTalk

lparsons21 said:


> External HD is also on Direct's HDDVRs, although they use eSata instead of USB. Good side is that it doesn't cost anything to use it, even the first time.


Bad side is that you can only use one EHD. If you swap to another EHD you lose all of your saved programs.


----------



## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> when did they ad that option?


They have had it for a while, however it replaces the drive in the box, not add to it, so it is a little different


----------



## Ron Barry

DirecTV-Sub said:


> First - I am a former (until 2 months ago) 7 year DN customer, I know of what I speak. I speak of the total frustration I had by not getting any info, or any new channels.
> 
> I can make more true statements about DN than DIRECTV - believe me.
> 
> Don't find it so odd - I didn't like the direction the company is going, and the false hopes they are giving out. Heck their website STILL SAYS they have TWICE as many HD channels as anyone else. Can you believe that?
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/learn_about/index.shtml
> 
> Just click tab #2. If that false stuff doesn't bother you, what does?


This is starting to rathole... so I will keep it as short as possible.

Does it bothering me.. I have stated this before.. It is called "Marketing" they all do it.. Is it right nope... But does it bother me.. No... Because I deal with it on a daily basis in my job and I understand it for what it is.

Also.. like you said. We all have opinions... And I personally don't discount the frustrations some people have echoed on this board. I understand why and this is part of what this board is about. But just because you feel frustration and uneasiness like never before does not equate to NEVER has there been such uneasiness of frustration as a whole. That is where my previous comment was directed.


----------



## Ron Barry

_*Moderator warning: Ok guys... lets stay off the political stuff.. *_


----------



## russ9

Ok, just checking here - this is the no "HD Gripe thread", so I'll add my no new HD griping to this mega-paged thread (hint, hint, Charles). As a approach my 11th anniversary with Dish Network, I wish for the Sci-Fi channel in HD, and peace on earth, and something else I


----------



## robertoh

Before I got HD,we watched about 12 channels.Today we mostly watch the same 12 channels and all but a few are HD and the only one I'd like to see HD is USA Network,and on our Hi-Def set it looks almost like a Hi-Def picture. I'm thinking if there were 200 HD channels most people would only watch the same ones every day.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

You know... it just occurred to me that this is the "no HD" gripe thread... so posting anything other than a gripe about HD is technically off-topic... so I guess I have to start complaining more


----------



## rey_1178

HDMe said:


> You know... it just occurred to me that this is the "no HD" gripe thread... so posting anything other than a gripe about HD is technically off-topic... so I guess I have to start complaining more


:soapbox: right on!


----------



## James Long

HDMe said:


> You know... it just occurred to me that this is the "no HD" gripe thread... so posting anything other than a gripe about HD is technically off-topic... so I guess I have to start complaining more


I keep misreading it as the "HD no gripe" thread. 
And I'm the one that gave it the title. :lol:

Gripe like mature adults ... not like a 12 or 70 year olds. Please!


----------



## texaswolf

Ron Barry said:


> _*Moderator warning: Ok guys... lets stay off the political stuff.. *_


That was my fault...sorry


----------



## phrelin

HDMe said:


> You know... it just occurred to me that this is the "no HD" gripe thread... so posting anything other than a gripe about HD is technically off-topic... so I guess I have to start complaining more


It says *The "No HD" Gripe Thread*, which means we have nothing to write about on this thread as we have HD.:lol:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

phrelin said:


> It says *The "No HD" Gripe Thread*, which means we have nothing to write about on this thread as we have HD.:lol:


Ah, but "no HD" is in quotes... which is why we can gripe... because although we have HD, we also have "no HD" simultaneously


----------



## TulsaOK

James Long said:


> I keep misreading it as the "HD no gripe" thread.
> And I'm the one that gave it the title. :lol:
> 
> Gripe like mature adults ... not like a 12 or 70 year olds. Please!


Maybe it should be renamed the "Not Enough HD" thread. Of course, there's never going to be "enough".


----------



## James Long

Why don't we get back to griping about the lack of HD instead of the thread title before I slap you all silly and send you to your rooms crying for your mothers? 

:backtotop


----------



## mtbarr64

donjoy44 said:


> It agravates me so much that I living in Ct pay the same amount of money for HD as a person living elsewhere when the other person gets their local in HD plus their RSN in HD I have no locals in Hd or my RSN in HD but pay the same for over 2 years now with no end in sight> How can this be fair and equal to all
> 
> Please give us our HD locals and are NESN RSN


I have been paying $5.00 extra for locals. Albeit on the non HD version. Don't know for sure, but believe I have to pay it for the HD version too when I upgrade.


----------



## mtbarr64

DirecTV-Sub said:


> First - I am a former (until 2 months ago) 7 year DN customer, I know of what I speak. I speak of the total frustration I had by not getting any info, or any new channels.
> 
> I can make more true statements about DN than DIRECTV - believe me.
> 
> Don't find it so odd - I didn't like the direction the company is going, and the false hopes they are giving out. Heck their website STILL SAYS they have TWICE as many HD channels as anyone else. Can you believe that?
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/learn_about/index.shtml
> 
> Just click tab #2. If that false stuff doesn't bother you, what does?


This was almost me as well, until I actually had the install done and checked out the actual service. I cancelled within 24 hours and decided to wait for E* to do it.

Major issues:

The D* DVR/Receiver was pathetic. I know it is the first generation on their own, but I wasn't going to wait. Granted it had the eSATA connection and runs LINUX allowing for moving of the recordings off the DVR, but that did not sell me.

As well most of the HD channel programming is in Standard Definition. For example, SCIFIHD has their new shows in HD, but the rest are pillared or letterboxed and not high res.

E* does owe their customers feedback. No one is asking for business plans, DUH! We are though asking for reassurances and candid discussions on what is happening. They can keep us appraised, informed and loyal by sharing something with us.

I had to come here to find this out. Why did I not get a "dear long term subscriber" letter explaining some of this? This is just good customer relations, not about giving away the corporate secrets by any means. They need better customer notification.


----------



## James Long

mtbarr64 said:


> I have been paying $5.00 extra for locals. Albeit on the non HD version. Don't know for sure, but believe I have to pay it for the HD version too when I upgrade.


The $5 will deliver SD locals, HD locals and EPG for OTA locals. (All three "where available".)


----------



## James Long

mtbarr64 said:


> I had to come here to find this out. Why did I not get a "dear long term subscriber" letter explaining some of this? This is just good customer relations, not about giving away the corporate secrets by any means. They need better customer notification.


Do you realize that we who care are in the minority? Especially we who care about HD?

DISH could have sent some letter to their HD subscribers ... some "stick with us, trust us, be patient" message. But when they did that before did it really help?

We are seeing a repeat of two years ago when the DISH HDPack retired and DishHD and the ViP series receivers were released. We went for months in 2005 (perhaps even a year) running on promises that were eventually met. But during the 'promise' period people (at least the loud ones on internet forums) were no more happy than the people (the loud ones again) who have been screaming for the past six to nine months.

DISH is trying to get an outcome. If _they_ tell their customers in reassuring terms that best in HD is already on DISH they hope that their customers will be reassured and happy (even the ones that are concerned with new HD). If _they_ tell their customers that better stuff will eventually be on DISH without a firm schedule that they meet they are no better off than they were two years ago. And they reinforce the feeling (even in customers who are perfectly satisfied) that people should not be satisfied.

It is like having the checkout person at the store tell you that you're getting ripped off by high prices. You have made the reasonable decision and eliminated all the arguments against making the purchase (including "feeding the pig" - saving money for the future) and you're ready to spend convinced in your own mind that you're getting a good deal (or at least, an acceptable one). Should the person at the register be supportive? Should they say "wow, that's nicer than mine - you're getting a good deal" or "I'm going to have to get myself one of those one day" or "I have one of those and it works great"? Or should they say "wow, that price is too high" or "I wouldn't buy that brand" or "keep the receipt for _when_ you return this"?

There is a balance ... the store cannot be positive beyond the facts that support the outlook. But I can almost guarantee that the negative store will be firing that checkout person or going out of business. "Soon."

Like it or not (likely not), DISH is remaining positive for the vast majority of their customers. They know they are taking a hit ... but there are factors out of their control. What they can control is staying positive ... selling what they consider to be the best _choice_ of HD that they can sell and being happy that they have SD customers that will pay keep the lights on regardless of their success with HD.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> Do you realize that we who care are in the minority? Especially we who care about HD?
> 
> DISH could have sent some letter to their HD subscribers ... some "stick with us, trust us, be patient" message. But when they did that before did it really help?
> 
> We are seeing a repeat of two years ago when the DISH HDPack retired and DishHD and the ViP series receivers were released. We went for months in 2005 (perhaps even a year) running on promises that were eventually met. But during the 'promise' period people (at least the loud ones on internet forums) were no more happy than the people (the loud ones again) who have been screaming for the past six to nine months.
> 
> DISH is trying to get an outcome. If _they_ tell their customers in reassuring terms that best in HD is already on DISH they hope that their customers will be reassured and happy (even the ones that are concerned with new HD). If _they_ tell their customers that better stuff will eventually be on DISH without a firm schedule that they meet they are no better off than they were two years ago. And they reinforce the feeling (even in customers who are perfectly satisfied) that people should not be satisfied.
> 
> It is like having the checkout person at the store tell you that you're getting ripped off by high prices. You have made the reasonable decision and eliminated all the arguments against making the purchase (including "feeding the pig" - saving money for the future) and you're ready to spend convinced in your own mind that you're getting a good deal (or at least, an acceptable one). Should the person at the register be supportive? Should they say "wow, that's nicer than mine - you're getting a good deal" or "I'm going to have to get myself one of those one day" or "I have one of those and it works great"? Or should they say "wow, that price is too high" or "I wouldn't buy that brand" or "keep the receipt for _when_ you return this"?
> 
> There is a balance ... the store cannot be positive beyond the facts that support the outlook. But I can almost guarantee that the negative store will be firing that checkout person or going out of business. "Soon."
> 
> Like it or not (likely not), DISH is remaining positive for the vast majority of their customers. They know they are taking a hit ... but there are factors out of their control. What they can control is staying positive ... selling what they consider to be the best _choice_ of HD that they can sell and being happy that they have SD customers that will pay keep the lights on regardless of their success with HD.


What harm would it do them to release an "official" statement about future plans? Like you said... most Dish subscribers do not care about this but those that do (who also gain Dish alot of business through word of mouth) would see it here or elsewhere and feel that they are not being left totally in the dark.

So don't do a 10+ million mailing but what harm would it do them to be a little more forthcoming in a statement that would be spread via the net to those who do care?

Having a plan is far better in my eyes than leaving people hanging on a future promise of "we'll have more HD someday" and while some people will always b-tch *smiles* at least those teetering on the edge of "stay with Dish" or "move to D*" will have something to counter the D*'s claim (fact really LOL) of "we have more HD now!"

When I read recently that most of Premium Channels are now in HD but we only get one because of space issues.... well that really upset me. Here I am paying for the HD but I cannot get it because Dish does not have the room.

So telling me that once a new Sat is up in April or May or July or whatever and they will have all those HD channels that we have been missing sure does alot to help me stay with Dish.

Dish.... Help me Help You! 

-JB


----------



## James Long

They did release an official statement ... at CES ... satellite launches and new HD in 2008.


----------



## texaswolf

> Do you realize that we who care are in the minority? Especially we who care about HD?


Very True, but, it is the future, and lack of it is what cost them the amount of subs projected. I would have to think that a majority of new subs coming to either company are looking into HD, it's not something that can be tossed in the minority category anymore. HDTV sales were big towards the end of the year last year...and it is the direction both companies are focusing most of their attention.


----------



## BNUMM

Dish knows that if you already have Dish that you are not likely to leave because they haven't told you exactly when they are going to add new HD channels. As long as the churn remains constant why should they waste their time.


----------



## jrb531

BNUMM said:


> Dish knows that if you already have Dish that you are not likely to leave because they haven't told you exactly when they are going to add new HD channels. As long as the churn remains constant why should they waste their time.


How do they know this? A ton of people who got 622's with an 18 month commit have just ended their commit period or soon will. This is the time people are looking to stay or go.

I myself am waiting for the new D*'s DVR's to get the bugs worked out. I'm leaning toward leaving Dish due to the per-DVR fee as I want multiple DVR's without paying silly BS made up fees.

Drop that fee and I stay. Keep the fee and I remain only as long at the D*'s DVR's are crap. How long will that last? 

-JB


----------



## HobbyTalk

See, even you have admitted that the lack of info on future HD is not the reason you would leave. No matter if you had the info or not, that is not the reason you are thinking of D*.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

My griping about lack of HD is a cyclic thing... While I would certainly like USAHD and SciFiHD... right now I'm not exactly missing anything. The shows I watch on those channels are all on hiatus, so the next time I'll be watching is whenever BSG and Dr Who startup again... and Dr Who isn't HD anyway, though maybe they will air it in 16x9 instead of letterbox on the HD channel.

But I can't really gripe today because other than seeing the channel light up in the guide, it would have no effect on my TV watching at the present time.

I had hoped for USAHD back when Monk/Psych came back from hiatus but those finished now... so less urgency for me on those channels.

The next big push for SciFi will probably be when BSG comes back. The writers' strike has "helped" in some ways to negate the immediate need for more HD channels since a lot of shows were postponed until that was over.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jrb531 said:


> How do they know this? A ton of people who got 622's with an 18 month commit have just ended their commit period or soon will. This is the time people are looking to stay or go.


How do you know that? I haven't heard of a flood of customers cancelling their commitments with Dish because of lack of HD. Seen a handful of people threaten to do it, but most of them haven't followed through... and certainly not "tons". Also, speculating on "soon will" seems as spurious as the comment you were questioning.


----------



## jrb531

HDMe said:


> How do you know that? I haven't heard of a flood of customers cancelling their commitments with Dish because of lack of HD. Seen a handful of people threaten to do it, but most of them haven't followed through... and certainly not "tons". Also, speculating on "soon will" seems as spurious as the comment you were questioning.


The only thing I claimed as fact was that a ton of people were either out or soon to be out of their 18 month commit. The 622's came out about 24 months ago. So those who got a 622 within the first 6 months of release are now out of their contract. Those who got it soon after that will be out of their contract in the next few months.

Now you are correct that I am speculating that those out of their contract are thinking about what they should do now. I'll retract that and change my statement to "some" "may" be thinking about it  and the others are jusr watching reality shows or watching the HD fashion channel 

Now those out of contract can either stay or go.... seems like a good guess as to what people are thinking 

-JB


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> My griping about lack of HD is a cyclic thing... While I would certainly like USAHD and SciFiHD... right now I'm not exactly missing anything. The shows I watch on those channels are all on hiatus, so the next time I'll be watching is whenever BSG and Dr Who startup again... and Dr Who isn't HD anyway, though maybe they will air it in 16x9 instead of letterbox on the HD channel.
> 
> But I can't really gripe today because other than seeing the channel light up in the guide, it would have no effect on my TV watching at the present time.
> 
> I had hoped for USAHD back when Monk/Psych came back from hiatus but those finished now... so less urgency for me on those channels.
> 
> The next big push for SciFi will probably be when BSG comes back. The writers' strike has "helped" in some ways to negate the immediate need for more HD channels since a lot of shows were postponed until that was over.


BSG starts April 4th....I don't have a good feeling about us having scifi HD by then


----------



## phrelin

BNUMM said:


> Dish knows that if you already have Dish that you are not likely to leave because they haven't told you exactly when they are going to add new HD channels. As long as the churn remains constant why should they waste their time.


Warning: :soapbox: :beatdeadhorse:
I believe the core of Echostar's business can be found in rural areas without OTA or cable and in the technology community. Customers in other areas and those who have different interests will change providers - churn - based on perceptions of price and service.

I'm a person who has been with Echostar for 20 years initially because I was in a rural area. Admittedly I became infatuated with the technology. Even today I love my ViP722. With that said, in terms of HD nationals Dish has stranded me in an island of HD sports (but apparently not enough for the real sports fan) and HD movies (but Voom channels instead of Showtimes, HBO's and Starz's).

I've discovered that HD is more addictive than I thought it would be, only because the picture and sound can be so much better than SD or even "upverted" SD. The ultimate realization for me was when I compared a "Torchwood" episode recorded from BBCA to one recorded from HDNet. It was then I realized that while I really don't care if I watch "Law & Order" or sitcoms in HD so long as it's widescreen, for me science fiction programming as well as sports, movies, shows with alot of scenic exteriors, and music shows have to be HD/5.1.

DirectTV has them all. Dish doesn't, but they are "testing" seven nationals one of which is SciFi which has programming in that category that benefits so well from HD - new science fiction. So every week beginning in December, I've checked to see if the "ghostly seven" nationals are turned on, and every week they aren't. I'd like to know why - no contract, tech problems, too busy with other stuff, why?

My angst is in the context of Echostar splitting off its Dish service from the technology oriented part of the company. I'm now getting my service from a "Comcast", while the fun stuff starts to be "somewhere else."

So, if I start going through the final season of "Battlestar Galactica" in SD with no idea why, I will start swimming the churn because Echostar, a fun "state-of-the-art" technology company that at least "seemed to share" with us techies, has been replaced completely by Dish, a mediocre version of a money-grubbing retailer like DirectTV and Comcast. You might as well get your service from a company that has a successful history of being totally a shareholder-driven, profit-focused retailer.


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## rickfromthesticks

I have a lot in common with phrelin, being rural and coming to Dish over 10 years ago. The main reason I upgraded to HD was because Dish had CBS available for nothing since I was "gray". Now I cannot get ANY channels OTA, my national CBS has been pulled and the locals are absolutely terrible quality on sat. Even the precious CSI reruns are SD on Dish's Spike channel.

I have no idea what the other networks (NBC, FOX, ABC, ETC.) HD looks like, but I'd like to see them. I love SCI-FI and USA, but they are not enough for me to run. My 622 time will be up this summer and if the other guys get my locals in HD, then I'll be gone. Right now they don't so I'll just putter along with what I have and realize that HD would just make Marg Helgenberg look that much older!


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## lionsrule

Friday, March 7th...........NO NEW HD.


----------



## Hunter Green

Also, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

(Showing my age, eh?)


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## BNUMM

Dish knows that not that many people will leave because they do marketing surveys.


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## jrb531

Hunter Green said:


> Also, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
> 
> (Showing my age, eh?)


LOL I got it.... showing my age also 

-JB


----------



## fredp

Well The Charlie Chat is Monday at 9PM EST on 101. I caught the commercial while cooking so I'm not sure if I heard this right but the program was to feature... movie stars? Oh god please, lets not let this be another stalling infomercial. Again not sure what I heard exactly in its context. What I did hear was here is your time to ask questions of the CEO. Hahahaha, if the same retention challenged guy from the tech session calls in again and forgets who he's talking to I'm gonna bust a gut! The bird goes up Friday so I doubt this will me a memeorable chat... Guess I'll go to Bingo instead.


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## Stewart Vernon

BNUMM said:


> Dish knows that not that many people will leave because they do marketing surveys.


Yep... for all the supposed threats of mass exodus, I've never been witness to such an exodus... and this even includes the predictors of the exodus, as they don't seem to leave either.


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## booger

Sprint had a mass exodus of 700,000 lost customers. Dish is not immune.

I think the big difference this time around with HD is that there are other providers out there who have the HD we want. Direct is throwing up local HD like it's nothing and look what happened. They are almost at capacity. Oh well, they had the foresight to put up another bird this month so that by summer, they'll be able to add even more HD. 50 + channels. Who would have thunk it? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Direct have a bird that did not go up as scheduled as well as Echo? Direct obviously took all of this into consideration.

I will be asking (or trying to ask) Charlie come Monday when those new HD channels are coming and not by the end of 08. Which quarter would be nice. I'm not asking too much am I?

I wish I could give that answer to my customers who rely on me for service. When will you have that widget ready? By the end of 08. What about those new services? By the end of 08.


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## phrelin

There isn't a question that can be asked that hasn't been asked and answered somewhere on one of the threads here, except: Why haven't the "ghostly seven" been turned on for subscribers?


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## lionsrule

Oh, and just so I don't have to follow this forum this weekend...........


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## tomcrown1

Well Dish retention center lied to me and told me that the by the end of February we will have 7 new national HD channels(If by next week the seven are lite up I will not consider it a lie)

The point here is that dish is not gaining any new subscribers in the numbers that are warranted. Hd TVs are selling along with cable and Direct Tv. 

I believe that Charlie will put more time into adding local Hd since he feels that is what will increase the new customer base to the level needed for wall street.


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## Jerry 42

The 1st new sat is on schedule to go up March 15. You can check various other threads for details.


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## Stewart Vernon

So has the mass exodus begun yet?


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## tomcrown1

HDMe said:


> So has the mass exodus begun yet?


Yep!!!


----------



## James Long

Fortunately the mass introdus continues ...


----------



## phrelin

tomcrown1 said:


> I believe that Charlie will put more time into adding local Hd since he feels that is what will increase the new customer base to the level needed for wall street.


The problem with that theory is that DirectTV has satellite plans to augment its locals this year. And they've already got the nationals in place. Of course we've still got our 622/722s, but according to some, ad skipping dvrs are going to be less popular than VOD with fewer ads.


----------



## James Long

Anyone here have an ad skipping DVR (other than the manual type ... skip 30 until you're back in program, skip back 10 because you missed the mark)?

If the DVR automatically skipped ads that would be a great feature.


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> Anyone here have an ad skipping DVR (other than the manual type ... skip 30 until you're back in program, skip back 10 because you missed the mark)?
> 
> If the DVR automatically skipped ads that would be a great feature.


I've got a JVC S-VHS deck that skips ads automatically (blue screen while it slips forward). On the DVR front, I'm pretty sure that was a Replay 4000 series exclusive.


----------



## harsh

phrelin said:


> ad skipping dvrs are going to be less popular than VOD with fewer ads.


You're assuming that VOD is ad-free. I don't think that's the case with most of the current offerings.


----------



## phrelin

The article didn't say "ad skipping dvr." My poor wording. What it says is that we are so lazy that the process of scheduling recordings and then pushing the "skip" or "ff" buttons is just too much. What the networks are doing is reducing the number of ads in VOD just below the average person's irritation level.

The old ad skipping VCR's did work, though not perfectly.


----------



## ssmith10pn

I didn't drop dish so I have both.
I am enjoying Speed HD and Hotpass in HD. The SD version is really cool because you can toggle through three different audio sources.

But on the downside The HR21 is beyond sucking and you wait forever for a channel to change.
The DVR portion SUCKS!


----------



## rey_1178

ssmith10pn said:


> I didn't drop dish so I have both.
> I am enjoying Speed HD and Hotpass in HD. The SD version is really cool because you can toggle through three different audio sources.
> 
> But on the downside The HR21 is beyond sucking and you wait forever for a channel to change.
> The DVR portion SUCKS!


that is why i canceled the same day of installation and stayed with E* :stickman:


----------



## lukin4u

just one time i would like to have some cake



and eat it 2


----------



## Littledude

ssmith10pn said:


> I didn't drop dish so I have both.
> I am enjoying Speed HD and Hotpass in HD. The SD version is really cool because you can toggle through three different audio sources.
> 
> But on the downside The HR21 is beyond sucking and you wait forever for a channel to change.
> The DVR portion SUCKS!


I admit to watching this thread because I am one of those people who has no problem jumping to the best provider. I think that it is beneficial for everyone that E* levels that playing field again.

I am curious about your statements on the HR21. I have 3 HR20s and 2 tivos and have found myself almost looking at the HR20s exclusively, even with the locals. I see the 622 at my brother-in-law's place maybe once or twice a month. It is probably my lack of familiarity with the 622 that has left me a little underwelmed. I know the channel changing time is frusterating on the HR20/21 (about 2 to 3 seconds on the last CE with native off), but with 5 dvrs, I am not much of a channel surfer.

I wonder if I could coax you into a thread about the 2 dvrs since you have them both up and running and could give a more accurate comparison than someone who gave up on the HR21 after the first day. I know it took me a couple months to get used to the HR20 after using Tivo for so long. It just surprises me how much the dvr being "that much more superior" comes up in the programming threads. Anyway, my contract is up in about 6 months, and I think that the HD programming will be more equal then, so I will look out for your opinion.


----------



## smackman

My 622 18 month contract expires in April. I do not want to go to *D* because in my area *D* does not even have locals BUT I am now able to pickup 3 of the 4 major networks in HD with a OTA. ABC is still broadcasting analog. CW is digital but not HD.
Does the HR20s accept OTA signals like the 622 does? What makes the 622 or 722 superior to the HR20s? 

I am a ole faithful *E* customer of 8 years. *D* lost many customers in my area when *E* started transmitting the locals. They are still in SD but customers love it and most have smaller Televisions which does not show the crappy SD side of *E*. 
Why if any reason should I not consider swapping to *D*? Are the DVRs the same quality? Which company if any has the better SD picture or even HD picture? 
I believe *E* is playing with fire because of the lack of HD channels.


----------



## Ron Barry

Guys.. this is an "No HD" Gripe thread... Lets keep on topic here and avoid rat holing into DVR comparisons or company comparisons. If it is in context of HD Channels Dish does not have.. Thats cool but we need to keep this thread along its primary focus and that is "Gripe about the HD channels E* is missing".


----------



## smackman

Ron Barry said:


> Guys.. this is an "No HD" Gripe thread... Lets keep on topic here and avoid rat holing into DVR comparisons or company comparisons. If it is in context of HD Channels Dish does not have.. Thats cool but we need to keep this thread along its primary focus and that is "Gripe about the HD channels E* is missing".


Okay; I will find somewhere else to ask this question. In all fairness, I would not be asking this question if *E* would anti up on there HD content. Maybe I "spun" it wrong but I was not trying to rat hole anyone.


----------



## booger

James Long said:


> Anyone here have an ad skipping DVR (other than the manual type ... skip 30 until you're back in program, skip back 10 because you missed the mark)?
> 
> If the DVR automatically skipped ads that would be a great feature.


Myth TV skips commercials automatically! The downside is the time and pain that is needed to set one up.


----------



## rey_1178

no surprises today either. C has some brass! :grrr:


----------



## tomcrown1

On topic Dish WAKE UP we need more HD 

no new HD maybe no new DISH???


----------



## lionsrule

ok....here goes my NO HD GRIPE.....

Many points have been made here, and many points have been quickly counterpointed by everyone's favorite mod who seemingly has his sat signal take a hit anytime he senses someone is bemoaning dish for any reason.

Well come and get me 811 guy, cause I'm a getting to the moaning....

First, it's been pointed out that it would go along ways to simply have a date to look forward to when we will get new HD turned on. I COMPLETELY agree. This move has precedence.......remember the PR that dish put out last summer announcing the coming of MHD and other channels? Why not do it again? We all know the capacity exists (drop a few HDPPV's). Any I'm sure mr 811 mod will swoop in and say something like....."they can't announce something is they don't have an agreement"....which leads me to my next GRIPE...

Second, WHY aren't there any new agreements? The channels DO exist. Take usa and scifi in HD. Those two channels are arguably the most in demand to be added. Why don't you have an agreement. Your financials show that the biggest reason you are losing business it because dish is losing to the perception that direct is where it is at for HD. PROVE CUSTOMERS WRONG!! Drop the dozen or so VOOM channels that the MAJORITY of customers would be happy to give up to get "regular" channels in HD. To this, 811 mod would say, but lionsrule, what about the people who like voom.......

Third, just shut up about voom. The channels SUCK admit it. Ok, maybe one or two of you like them but seriously.....I leave you with this trade (someone feel free to start a poll). I'll trade you your LOVELY VOOM channels for: ScifiHD,USAHD,CNNHD,WeatherHD,NICKHD,DISNEYHD,ABCFAMILYHD,ESPNNewHD,FXHD and SPIKEHD.............what would you chose?

I've got more gripes, but I've got to go set my 622 to record tonights insightful charlie chat.........toodles.


----------



## Richard King

lionsrule said:


> /Snip tirade/
> I'll trade you your LOVELY VOOM channels for: ScifiHD,USAHD,CNNHD,WeatherHD,NICKHD,DISNEYHD,ABCFAMILYHD,ESPNNewHD,FXHD and SPIKEHD.............what would you chose?


I would "chose" Voom. If I want to watch any of the channels you list (which I don't) I can watch them in SD. If I swap Voom for those channels in HD there is no way left to watch Voom.


----------



## James Long

lionsrule said:


> I've got more gripes, but I've got to go set my 622 to record tonights insightful charlie chat.........toodles.


You were right about one thing ... the chat was insightful. The rest of what you said is more questionable.

One thing for sure ... I noted earlier in the thread that even if DISH gave more information people would be angry. You have demonstrated that already in the Charlie Chat thread by demanding an exact timeline. I'll reply here ...

If you want a precise timeline for more HD in your home subscribe to another provider that already has the channels you want. Your install date becomes the magic date you are demanding.

Simple, eh?

As for me and my house ... we will wait.

_"Nobody is going to have more HD channels than we are."_
CEO Charles Ergen​


----------



## lionsrule

James Long said:


> One thing for sure ... I noted earlier in the thread that even if DISH gave more information people would be angry. You have demonstrated that already in the Charlie Chat thread by demanding an exact timeline. I'll reply here ...
> 
> If you want a precise timeline for more HD in your home subscribe to another provider that already has the channels you want. Your install date becomes the magic date you are demanding.
> 
> _"Nobody is going to have more HD channels than we are."_
> CEO Charles Ergen​


I was ............JOKING...........google sarcasm and see what I mean....


----------



## lionsrule

...and just so I know whether or not you are a complete homer....is there ANYTHING about dishnetwork that you do not agree with? 

I don't mean just slightly disagree with, but to the point where you go on a rant, or maybe call or email dishnetwork to complain?

I ask only because I have seen SO many examples of you counterpointing with people who have very valid points to make. Over the years I've seen you defend 1)multiple DVR fee's per household 2)activation fee for EHD's 3)dropping 921 support (legacy support in general),etc....

There is a saying that parents are hard on their children because they love them and expect/want better from/of them. Perhaps in some of the negative comments that are posted from time to time about dishnetwork can be found a love of the product........we just want/expect more.

Chillax.....


----------



## James Long

lionsrule said:


> I was ............JOKING...........google sarcasm and see what I mean....


You're never wrong, are you?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

lionsrule said:


> Third, just shut up about voom. The channels SUCK admit it. Ok, maybe one or two of you like them but seriously.....I leave you with this trade (someone feel free to start a poll). I'll trade you your LOVELY VOOM channels for: ScifiHD,USAHD,CNNHD,WeatherHD,NICKHD,DISNEYHD,ABCFAMILYHD,ESPNNewHD,FXHD and SPIKEHD.............what would you chose?


Just for the sake of argument 

I don't watch CNN, Nick, ESPNews, FX, or Spike. I rarely watch Disney, ABC Family, and Weather.

So... the only channels that even get a frequent watch by me are SciFi and USA... So, IF Voom was swapped out for the channels you suggest... I for one would actually find myself not watching them any more and probably less than I do Voom, even if the channels were in HD all the time.

This is why it is bad to say you want to swap channel A for channel B. Everyone doesn't like the same channels... maybe a small handful could be agreed upon by a majority but probably not a large list.

Meanwhile, back at the gripe... It would be nice if Dish could/would turn on those handful that have been rumored to perhaps be uplinked from the Uplink reports... rather than having to wait until perhaps June.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> You're never wrong, are you?


I think I might have been wrong once... oh wait, that wasn't me. Nevermind. I was wrong about possibly being wrong once


----------



## jpeckinp

Well some space is being made for more HD at the end of the month with HGTV and Food Network going to simulcast HD instead of two different schedules.
By eliminating those two channels that should free up enough space for 1 HD channel. What shopping channel do we all want?:lol:


----------



## James Long

jpeckinp said:


> Well some space is being made for more HD at the end of the month with HGTV and Food Network going to simulcast HD instead of two different schedules.
> By eliminating those two channels that should free up enough space for 1 HD channel. What shopping channel do we all want?:lol:


No space saved ... by simulcasting all they are doing is matching the SD schedule with the HD schedule. There will still be two HD channels.


----------



## peak_reception

I actually thought the Charlie Chat was encouraging. Oops, off topic. 

grumble, grumble, grumble.... 

Earlier tonight I was weeding out (locking out) channels I don't watch. What is MAV-HD anyway? I wish the on-screen menu gave some channel info. And is the HD Test channel worth keeping in the line-up? 

If AMC-14 blows up on the launch pad then this thread will really blow up!


----------



## peak_reception

I for one think we need more PPV and Home Shopping channels in HD! :barf: 
And more satellite radio channels. man oh man i hate those. if i want to listen to music i turn on the radio or play my stereo.


----------



## tnsprin

peak_reception said:


> I actually thought the Charlie Chat was encouraging. Oops, off topic.
> 
> grumble, grumble, grumble....
> 
> Earlier tonight I was weeding out (locking out) channels I don't watch. What is MAV-HD anyway? ...


Maverick NBA games.


----------



## tsmacro

Well at the very least it seems from the Charlie Chat that we learned that what is holding up adding the new HD channels at this point is "getting a contract that's fair to everyone". So I guess that at least means we can narrow our griping, no more need to complain about lack of bandwith and having to take rash actions like replacing VOOM or PPV or shopping channels so they can add more HD. After all Charlie says that the necessary bandwith is already there. So I guess now we can just rant about Dish's inability to negotiate "contracts that are fair to everyone" in a timely manner and get us more HD!


----------



## msmith198025

tsmacro said:


> Well at the very least it seems from the Charlie Chat that we learned that what is holding up adding the new HD channels at this point is "getting a contract that's fair to everyone". So I guess that at least means we can narrow our griping, no more need to complain about lack of bandwith and having to take rash actions like replacing VOOM or PPV or shopping channels so they can add more HD. After all Charlie says that the necessary bandwith is already there. So I guess now we can just rant about Dish's inability to negotiate "contracts that are fair to everyone" in a timely manner and get us more HD!


This is where Charlies "gunslinger" approach hurts the customer


----------



## Mikey

msmith198025 said:


> This is where Charlies "gunslinger" approach hurts the customer


Wrong analogy. Charlie is a world class poker player. He's been known to bluff, but sometimes he's got an ace up his sleeve.


----------



## lukin4u

Mikey said:


> Wrong analogy. Charlie is a world class poker player. He's been known to bluff, but sometimes he's got an ace up his sleeve.


usually people will catch on and wonder were all the aces are in the deck

cause dish aint using them


----------



## msmith198025

Mikey said:


> Wrong analogy. Charlie is a world class poker player. He's been known to bluff, but sometimes he's got an ace up his sleeve.


Haha, correct. I thought that didnt look just right


----------



## peak_reception

MAV-TV = Mavericks BB. ok, thanks tnsprin. 


> Wrong analogy. Charlie is a world class poker player. He's been known to bluff, but sometimes he's got an ace up his sleeve. --Mikey


Colorado Hold 'Em.

We'll know by the next Charlie Chat whether he's bluffing (or BS-ing) about the amount of new local and national HD to expect.


----------



## jrb531

jpeckinp said:


> Well some space is being made for more HD at the end of the month with HGTV and Food Network going to simulcast HD instead of two different schedules.
> By eliminating those two channels that should free up enough space for 1 HD channel. What shopping channel do we all want?:lol:


I vote for another HD PPV that I'll never use.



-JB


----------



## rey_1178

jrb531 said:


> I vote for another HD PPV that I'll never use.
> 
> 
> 
> -JB


:bonk1: :box: :down: :icon_lame :rant:


----------



## nsps

lionsrule said:


> Third, just shut up about voom. The channels SUCK admit it. Ok, maybe one or two of you like them but seriously.....I leave you with this trade (someone feel free to start a poll). I'll trade you your LOVELY VOOM channels for: ScifiHD,USAHD,CNNHD,WeatherHD,NICKHD,DISNEYHD,ABCFAMILYHD,ESPNNewHD,FXHD and SPIKEHD.............what would you chose?


I wouldn't mind compressing Voom's programming into fewer channels, but I definitely wouldn't trade it for the channels you listed.

Of those stations, I only ever watch CNN, and I'd certainly rather watch CNN in SD than movies. Now, if you wanted to merge Voom's movie channels into one (I record all the ones I want to watch anyway, so it wouldn't bother me that some only show at 3am), that'd be find. I might check out the HD TV shows on SciFi or FX. If you don't believe (all day long, it's Voom!), or Wilder's "Witness for the Prosecution" on FilmFest next Wednesday. They just need to get rid of that obnoxious animated ID that pops up every hour or so.

The rest of Voom's programing could probably be condensed into a few channels and I wouldn't miss anything. Besides the movies, I'd want the weekly La Liga game, lots of the Rave stuff and the occasional show from Gallery. But different people like different channels, so it might not work out. It'd be more of a variety channel in the style of HDNet. There would be less repeats, anyway.


----------



## Ron Barry

condensing the VOOM channels is in interesting idea but I don't think Dish has control over that though I am sure they could request it but less channels could mean less viewers per hour and that of course can effect revenue. Don't think VOOM would go that route... but it is one way to free up some space.. I just don't think it is feasible from a business point of view. But ofcourse I can be wrong on that, but that is what popped into my mind.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Putting VOOM into Ultimate could make VOOM rethink their programming layout. Would they trade condensing them into 1/2 the channels to be put in HD Essentials?


----------



## nsps

Ron Barry said:


> condensing the VOOM channels is in interesting idea but I don't think Dish has control over that though I am sure they could request it but less channels could mean less viewers per hour and that of course can effect revenue. Don't think VOOM would go that route... but it is one way to free up some space.. I just don't think it is feasible from a business point of view. But ofcourse I can be wrong on that, but that is what popped into my mind.


Yeah, Dish wouldn't have a say in it, other than maybe making strong suggestions. I was more describing the terms under which I'd rather have Voom than the channels listed. If Voom condensed its programming, it'd probably get higher ratings on individual channels, but loose some of their niche appeal (i.e. an extreme sports fan who always pops the channel on when there's nothing else to watch wouldn't be keen on the Equator documentary that's on the merged channel.) To judge the business aspect, you'd have to study programming costs versus costs for individual channels and take into account profits and losses. If they're making money on each channel, there's probably little motivation to condense.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Not expecting it to happen... but I've gone on record many times before in favor of condensing. The 15 Voom channels right now do have a lot of room for improvement in terms of new content... but it would be much less noticable if there were only 10 channels, for example, showing exactly the same rotation.

To me, this would be the best of both worlds... keep all the Voom HD content, but with less frequent repeats, and Dish could add a handful of other channels to boot.


----------



## Ron Barry

HobbyTalk said:


> Putting VOOM into Ultimate could make VOOM rethink their programming layout. Would they trade condensing them into 1/2 the channels to be put in HD Essentials?


As I was typing my response... That thought did occur to me....


----------



## aloishus27

> Third, just shut up about voom. The channels SUCK admit it. Ok, maybe one or two of you like them but seriously.....I leave you with this trade (someone feel free to start a poll). I'll trade you your LOVELY VOOM channels for: ScifiHD,USAHD,CNNHD,WeatherHD,NICKHD,DISNEYHD,ABCF AMILYHD,ESPNNewHD,FXHD and SPIKEHD.............what would you chose?


I would take Voom. No need to watch CNN in HD, or the weather radar, I don't need zoey101 or hannah montana in HD so there goes Nick and Disney out the window, abcfamily eh I dont really watch in in SD, ESPN News are we serious, and I don't watch fx or Spike... or scifi or USA which everyone one seems to be getting their panties all in ruffle over.

I do however watch alot of Equator, Rave, Worldsport, Animania, gallery, kungfu and my wife occasionally watches Ultra.

So yes I would rather have VOOM over those other channels.

Which is why both channels exist, and which is why there are a multitude of programming options and providers out there. If you are in such a hurry for those channels there is always cable or D*.


----------



## nlk10010

HDMe said:


> -snip-
> To me, this would be the best of both worlds... keep all the Voom HD content, but with less frequent repeats, and Dish could add a handful of other channels to boot.


I think each of us may like a different part of VOOM; e.g. I have no use for RAVE, or GAMEP, etc., but like LA LIGA on WSPORT, some programs on ULTRAHD and once-in-a-while FILMF and GALLERY.

The problem here is that Charlie's said he _already has_ the bandwidth to add channels.

Now if condensing VOOM would make him reach carriage agreements quicker (or help rectify whatever problem there is), *then* I would agree with you.


----------



## HobbyTalk

There never is enough bandwidth. We already know that both E* & D* are against the must carry rules as they could quickly run out of bandwidth. Also, trying up transponders and uplinks with programming that could be combined into fewer channels means a cost savings to E*.


----------



## jrb531

HDMe said:


> Not expecting it to happen... but I've gone on record many times before in favor of condensing. The 15 Voom channels right now do have a lot of room for improvement in terms of new content... but it would be much less noticable if there were only 10 channels, for example, showing exactly the same rotation.
> 
> To me, this would be the best of both worlds... keep all the Voom HD content, but with less frequent repeats, and Dish could add a handful of other channels to boot.


QFT!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

nlk10010 said:


> I think each of us may like a different part of VOOM; e.g. I have no use for RAVE, or GAMEP, etc., but like LA LIGA on WSPORT, some programs on ULTRAHD and once-in-a-while FILMF and GALLERY.
> 
> The problem here is that Charlie's said he _already has_ the bandwidth to add channels.
> 
> Now if condensing VOOM would make him reach carriage agreements quicker (or help rectify whatever problem there is), *then* I would agree with you.


Agreed. Voom is not why we don't have some of the other channels today. Apparently there are other reasons.

At the same time... for as much as I do like Voom and wouldn't want to lose them... I could be just as happy with some combining of channels. Rave is good, but there are a lot of repeats... Rave and Equator (for example) could be combined... show the same content they do now, with less repeats and take up half the bandwidth. No loss of shows for any of us, but potential gain in variety if another channel was launched in place.

A reshuffling/classification of movies could work too... We have Monsters, FamilyRoom, FilmFest, KungFu, and World. We could just as well have FamilyRoom and FilmFest combined, with the family-oriented content airing during the day and more adult movies at nighttime. World is kind of a niche, but could technically show many of the KungFu movies since many (most?) of them are foreign films too...

Rush and WorldSport could also be combined much of the time since they air repeats. Gallery could also be combined with Equator instead of Rave if you wanted to have a Smithsonian type of channel... and leave Rave as a standalone.. or you could argue Rave and Gallery could be combined since they both deal with the arts.

There's just a lot of potential to combine and not lose anything. Consider too that Rainbow may be launching AMC and IFC in HD... the the content of those channels could arguably be similar to FilmFest and World from their Voom lineup... so we could get even more repetition. I would argue that maybe Rainbow should just drop FilmFest and World when they launch AMC and IFC in HD.. and roll the HD movies over to those channel rotations. Again, no loss of content.


----------



## texaswolf

aloishus27 said:


> I would take Voom. No need to watch CNN in HD, or the weather radar, I don't need zoey101 or hannah montana in HD so there goes Nick and Disney out the window, abcfamily eh I dont really watch in in SD, ESPN News are we serious, and I don't watch fx or Spike... or scifi or USA which everyone one seems to be getting their panties all in ruffle over.
> 
> I do however watch alot of Equator, Rave, Worldsport, Animania, gallery, kungfu and my wife occasionally watches Ultra.
> 
> So yes I would rather have VOOM over those other channels.
> 
> Which is why both channels exist, and which is why there are a multitude of programming options and providers out there. If you are in such a hurry for those channels there is always cable or D*.


However if you were to look up the ratings of all those channels you consider useless vs VOOM....you would find yourself in the minority, which is why you see so much negative talk on the channels. If it comes down to having to pull a trigger vs losing subs...those would be toast. That being said...i don't think we are going to worry about it at all....once the sats are up. I personally don't think we should axe any channels to make room for others, however the VOOM programming is a joke...they can do so much better.


----------



## peak_reception

> That being said...i don't think we are going to worry about it at all....once the sats are up. --texaswolf


IF the new sats are up. Is AMC-14 in trouble? Seems to be the case. If the "anomaly" is terminal then DISH is in a heap of trouble, and we are too.

Ugh!


----------



## peak_reception

HDMe, I think your idea of VOOM channel consolidation is an excellent one. I wouldn't combine Equator with RAVE though. Very different audience and possibly their two most successful channels. You're right though that they could both use more programming and fewer repeats. WorldSport and Rush, absolutely! Gallery could be merged with Ultra for the artsy crowd. Other combos of Monsters, Filmfest, KungFu, World etc are also feasible. I like your idea of having one type of programming during the day and another at night. 

There is just not enough new programming to justify keeping all those channels separate, squandering valuable bandwidth.


----------



## jrb531

peak_reception said:


> HDMe, I think your idea of VOOM channel consolidation is an excellent one. I wouldn't combine Equator with RAVE though. Very different audience and possibly their two most successful channels. You're right though that they could both use more programming and fewer repeats. WorldSport and Rush, absolutely! Gallery could be merged with Ultra for the artsy crowd. Other combos of Monsters, Filmfest, KungFu, World etc are also feasible. I like your idea of having one type of programming during the day and another at night.
> 
> There is just not enough new programming to justify keeping all those channels separate, squandering valuable bandwidth.


I would combine everything on Voom I do not like onto one channel and leave what I do like separate 

I suspect others feel the same as I do LOL!

-JB


----------



## James Long

I would remove every channel jrb531 likes in favor of the ones I want.


----------



## lionsrule

we are DOOMED.....


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> I would remove every channel jrb531 likes in favor of the ones I want.


Hey, that was exactly my proposal! 

But seriously... this is why the "I'll trade your favorite channel for mine" is a slippery slope... because most of us would end up with none of our favorites.

But I absolutely support compromise in the form of condensing content onto a smaller number of channels. Incidentally, I don't limit this thought to just Voom.. but at the moment they would result in the most immediate benefit.

In the early days of ESPN2HD, there was almost 0 reason for it to exist when it was rare to have an HD game on both ESPN and ESPN2 at the same time... but Disney wanted to push the channel. I also see no real reason to have ESPNews in HD, but that's just me... and I am a fan of several sports!

I've said before that with UniversalHD having commercials, and with BravoHD coming back soon + SciFi and USA in HD... UniversalHD is quickly going to become a redundant channel.

HD Theater is somewhat redundant now that we have most of the Discovery family of channels in HD...

I don't really think we need 12 HBOs...

and I could keep going.


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> I would combine everything on Voom I do not like onto one channel and leave what I do like separate
> 
> I suspect others feel the same as I do LOL!
> 
> -JB





> I would remove every channel jrb531 likes in favor of the ones I want.


I would make the Playboy Channel in HD and free....oh wait.......wrong topic....sorry!Devil_lol


----------



## Paul Secic

jrb531 said:


> I would combine everything on Voom I do not like onto one channel and leave what I do like separate
> 
> I suspect others feel the same as I do LOL!
> 
> -JB


I agree VOOM needs to go. Last night I saw a show that was on in December.


----------



## nlk10010

Yea, the problem with VOOM is not necessarily the repeats (I mean, how many times do I need to see "Trading Spaces"?) but the lack of new content. Certainly consolidation could be achieved with no loss of variety.

The issue, I'm sure (but that's just me), is contractual. Dish CAN'T repackage VOOM without approval from VOOM, and I would guess they are not going to give it. As well, there is marginal value to Charlie as this packaging gives him the ability to advertise that he has more HD channels. As long as the space the VOOM channels is occupying doesn't prevent him from adding new HD why should he give up a "marketing advantage"?

In fact, isn't this precisely what D* did when they forced/bribed/cajoled originators to create phantom HD channels? I mean, is the marginal value of CartoonHD greater than that of RAVE, or GALLERY?


----------



## russ9

I pretty much track with peak_reception on voom, obviously what should happen never will. repeating the same set of 3 movies 4 times over 24 hours is just a waste. (Actually on World there are a three days next week that only have 2 movies repeating over a 24 hour period!)
So you could combine Filmfest and World (my favorites)and still have repeats of the same movies in 1 day.
The two sport channels could combine, and Monster with Kung Fu, Ultra with Gallery; and does anybody actually watch the Gameplay or the news channel? That's a real question, I'd really like to know.

Maybe we should just hope that Voom goes out of business altogether.


----------



## SWTESTER

HDMe said:


> Hey, that was exactly my proposal!
> 
> But seriously... this is why the "I'll trade your favorite channel for mine" is a slippery slope... because most of us would end up with none of our favorites.
> 
> But I absolutely support compromise in the form of condensing content onto a smaller number of channels. Incidentally, I don't limit this thought to just Voom.. but at the moment they would result in the most immediate benefit.
> 
> In the early days of ESPN2HD, there was almost 0 reason for it to exist when it was rare to have an HD game on both ESPN and ESPN2 at the same time... but Disney wanted to push the channel. I also see no real reason to have ESPNews in HD, but that's just me... and I am a fan of several sports!
> 
> I've said before that with UniversalHD having commercials, and with BravoHD coming back soon + SciFi and USA in HD... UniversalHD is quickly going to become a redundant channel.
> 
> HD Theater is somewhat redundant now that we have most of the Discovery family of channels in HD...
> 
> I don't really think we need 12 HBOs...
> 
> and I could keep going.


Well maybe 8 HBO's and Equator and Monster and HDnews and Voom everything channel. I thought I'd be a big supporter of Voom but I am close to canceling it for a channel with more programming ....perhaps Starz or Playboy hhmmm... You know too that 129 is on it's last legs, I'm now having dropouts on the Chicago locals every once in awhile. And Direc has more local channels in HD as it has WGN-CW in HD.


----------



## peak_reception

> we are DOOMED..... --lionsrule


I share your frustration but that's a little melodramatic.



> I would combine everything on Voom I do not like onto one channel and leave what I do like separate --jrb531


Yes, exactlly! 



> and does anybody actually watch the Gameplay or the news channel? That's a real question, I'd really like to know. --Russ9


I've only been with DISH since last July (former D* customer incidently). I got around to checking out the VOOM channels last Fall. Whenever I tuned into Gameplay it was the same tireless Hit Man stalking the halls of some cyber-hotel liquidating his marks. Man did that get old fast! As for HDNews... it brings to mind the old Wendy's commercial, "Where's the Beef??" The news coverage is so shallow it makes CNN Headline News seem like the New York Times by comparison.

I actually saw a show on RUSH which i enjoyed today (ok, we'll keep RUSH separate from the others  ). It was about kayaking the Zambezi River at Victoria Falls. It dovetailed nicely with another show I saw about Victoria Falls on -- i think -- Equator (or was it World Heritage; It is a UNESCO site). Either way, both on VOOM and both enjoyable. But now, whenever I watch a show on VOOM which I find worthwhile, I click on the info button and usually it comes up as having first-aired years ago. Such as the concert I recorded last week with Peter Cetera and Amy Grant. Great Stuff! First aired in 2004. It was new to me but old to VOOM.


----------



## texaswolf

> and does anybody actually watch the Gameplay or the news channel? That's a real question, I'd really like to know. --Russ9


i watch Gameplay for about 15 min...say...every other month, if i catch something cool when browsing by.....i watch HDnews for about 10 min (until it repeats itself)...and thats once every....3 months if i browse by it. If Gameplay had reviews on new games and tourneys it could be an awesome station (for that crowd) but even as a gamer, i'm tired of seeing reviews on games from 2004.


----------



## dbconsultant

HDMe said:


> Hey, that was exactly my proposal!
> 
> But seriously... this is why the "I'll trade your favorite channel for mine" is a slippery slope... because most of us would end up with none of our favorites.
> 
> But I absolutely support compromise in the form of condensing content onto a smaller number of channels. Incidentally, I don't limit this thought to just Voom.. but at the moment they would result in the most immediate benefit.
> 
> In the early days of ESPN2HD, there was almost 0 reason for it to exist when it was rare to have an HD game on both ESPN and ESPN2 at the same time... but Disney wanted to push the channel. I also see no real reason to have ESPNews in HD, but that's just me... and I am a fan of several sports!
> 
> I've said before that with UniversalHD having commercials, and with BravoHD coming back soon + SciFi and USA in HD... UniversalHD is quickly going to become a redundant channel.
> 
> HD Theater is somewhat redundant now that we have most of the Discovery family of channels in HD...
> 
> I don't really think we need 12 HBOs...
> 
> and I could keep going.


And I'll keep agreeing with you!


----------



## dbconsultant

Paul Secic said:


> I agree VOOM needs to go. Last night I saw a show that was on in December.


We watch quite a few of the shows that are not new - if we haven't seen them, they are new to us!


----------



## TBoneit

dbconsultant said:


> We watch quite a few of the shows that are not new - if we haven't seen them, they are new to us!


And next month they'll they will still be new to a new subscriber that never saw them.

Is it all that much different to the HBO, Cinemax,Showtime, Encore and such that show older movies? I've seen dates from the 40's & 50's on some of the movies on those services.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

TBoneit said:


> And next month they'll they will still be new to a new subscriber that never saw them.
> 
> Is it all that much different to the HBO, Cinemax,Showtime, Encore and such that show older movies? I've seen dates from the 40's & 50's on some of the movies on those services.


That's exactly been my position... I agree the Voom "suite" has some faults and could stand from some tightening-of-the-ship... but at the same time, many of the grenades lobbed at Voom should be lobbed at many other channels as well.

I routinely notice in the EPG stuff on HBO, SHO, etc. that I remember being on regularly from the 1980s... It does seem like the "big" channels have a bigger pool to pick from so they are not quite as repetitive, but honestly beyond the handful of new premieres each month on any given premium channel, I find myself wholly disinterested in them the rest of the time.

So if the criteria is "showing stuff we've already seen before" is applied equally, many channels fall horribly short of meeting that goal.


----------



## davethestalker

No Speed HD. 

New locals coming to markets smaller than the one I live in. New locals coming to markets in which I "should" have the option to receive (Grand Rapids). Only 100 national HD channels? Hmm, the other sat provider is already boasting about over 90 right now.

Dump more than half of the HD PPV channels and get some of these up now please.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Paul Secic said:


> I agree VOOM needs to go. Last night I saw a show that was on in December.


Wow, I saw a show on Discovery that was on over a year ago


----------



## HDlover

No FX HD on that list.


----------



## lionsrule

For those having read the "hd gripe" thread, you have certainly read many, MANY complaints calling for dish to simply outline their plans for hd similar to what they did last spring when they put out a press release about a month ahead of MHD,and others being launched. NOW, we have a press release that is designed to purely put out the fire of speculation due to their sat failure. 

THIS press release has two parts: LOCAL and NATIONAL.


LOCAL: States a specific month for markets to launch. While we all know dates are subject to change, at least we have a close ballpark to go by.


NATIONALS: Complete and utter LACK OF INFORMATION. Why say anything at all if you are going to put the word "may" in the statement. They might as well state that all HD channels MAY start broadcasting in 1080p.


----------



## lionsrule

Suggestion for future PR:

April:

ScifiHD
USAHD
CNNHD


May: 

WeatherchannelHD
VH1HD

ETC.....


----------



## rey_1178

texaswolf said:


> i watch Gameplay for about 15 min...say...every other month, if i catch something cool when browsing by.....i watch HDnews for about 10 min (until it repeats itself)...and thats once every....3 months if i browse by it. If Gameplay had reviews on new games and tourneys it could be an awesome station (for that crowd) but even as a gamer, i'm tired of seeing reviews on games from 2004.


+1


----------



## nsps

I never got the point of HDNews. Sure, with movies I want dedicated HD programming, but with news I'd rather watch a station with more resources and a bigger budget like CNN or MSNBC (not that any of them are particularly great), even if ithey're in SD.


----------



## plarmigan

HDlover said:


> No FX HD on that list.


That's the only one that I really want. :down:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

nsps said:


> I never got the point of HDNews. Sure, with movies I want dedicated HD programming, but with news I'd rather watch a station with more resources and a bigger budget like CNN or MSNBC (not that any of them are particularly great), even if ithey're in SD.


This is one I have to grant you... HDNews really could have been a pioneer for HD newscasts IF Rainbow had invested into it from the beginning. They do have some nice stuff, but they are not where you would tune to for breaking news.


----------



## nsps

HDMe said:


> This is one I have to grant you... HDNews really could have been a pioneer for HD newscasts IF Rainbow had invested into it from the beginning. They do have some nice stuff, but they are not where you would tune to for breaking news.


It's the only one you have to grant me.  I'm pretty positive on Voom's programming.


----------



## WebTraveler

davethestalker said:


> No Speed HD.
> 
> New locals coming to markets smaller than the one I live in. New locals coming to markets in which I "should" have the option to receive (Grand Rapids). Only 100 national HD channels? Hmm, the other sat provider is already boasting about over 90 right now.
> 
> Dump more than half of the HD PPV channels and get some of these up now please.


I am sure that is high on Dish's priority list - a channel a very small percentage even bothers to watch. One episode of SpongeBob on Nick reaches 5 million viewers. Speed had one event that was viewed by 1 million (out of a potential 72 million customers with access to it) What kind of businessman would have Speed HD over the long list of mainstream channels? No way is Dish going to make that a priority.....


----------



## davethestalker

WebTraveler said:


> I am sure that is high on Dish's priority list - a channel a very small percentage even bothers to watch. One episode of SpongeBob on Nick reaches 5 million viewers. Speed had one event that was viewed by 1 million (out of a potential 72 million customers with access to it) What kind of businessman would have Speed HD over the long list of mainstream channels? No way is Dish going to make that a priority.....


Too bad there hasn't been a new episode of Spobgebob on since 2005.

So, why should Fox even bother putting Speed in HD at all, since nobody is watching? Why should anyone bother putting anything in HD? There must be something to this whole goin' 'round in circles thing. Charlie dumps a whole bunch of cash to sponsor a few cars, dudn't he?

Apparently NONE of these channels are high on Charlie's list. Otherwise they would have been added months ago.

With the modern ability to "track" what is actually being watched via DVR and other digital boxes, it's time to revamp the estimated viewer calculation. How about dealing with real numbers for a change. Not made up numbers based on a handful of Nielsen viewers X whatever number they need to make themselves feel better about their programming.

Any channels being broadcast in HD that we don't have and our competition does, needs to be high on the list.

Maybe we should just watch TV and not wonder or be conserned if there are other channels in existence. They (Dish) don't want us knowing what the competition is doing and Dish isn't.


----------



## TulsaOK

davethestalker said:


> Maybe we should just watch TV and not wonder or be conserned if there are other channels in existence. They (Dish) don't want us knowing what the competition is doing and Dish isn't.


I certainly see a lot of DirecTV ads while I'm watching Dish. Since "They (Dish) don't want us knowing what the competition is doing and Dish isn't.", why don't they block those ads? Anyone who cares what the competition is doing, and has half a brain, shouldn't have a problem finding out.


----------



## diospyros

Is there any channel doing HD right? Not that I can see. For instance, I haven't watched HD Theater in months. I think I would cry if I was paying a la carte eight bucks a month for it. Most of the "original air dates" are circa 2004. 

Even if I had HD locals (which hopefully we will get in Cincinnati by the end of 2006 as promised :sure: ), or even if I could reliably get them OTA, the writers' strike pretty much eliminated a years worth of new network shows. I wouldn't actually watch that "reality" crap, though I guess it's OK for those who follow that stuff.

Been watching STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE on HDNet, but that show was canceled 
years ago and I never saw it then. History and TBS are all bent and stretched. Everybody repeats their program cycle every few months (It's about time again for TNT's GLADIATOR marathon).

Personally, I don't mind that a program is repeated over a period of a day or week. Since I watch mostly DVR'd stuff, I don't really care when it's on. By repeating the shows they give me a chance to see things that otherwise wouldn't get recorded due to conflicts with other shows. Actually, an HD version of TCM as it is currently programmed would be a nightmare since they only show a movie once a month and I pretty much would like to see them all. If it were HD it would fill up the 622 within a day or two and the whole shebang would come crashing down. 

HDTV is mostly promise right now and I don't think anyone is delivering, or at best, only in spits and spurts. It's actually a pretty exciting time in television with the whole industry in flux. Hopefully within another year or so there will be plenty of HD content broadcast in a watchable format. I'm just trying to be patient: it's only TV after all.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

I was thinking that the press statement DISH put out yesterday really added nothing new.

First of all, they said the beginning of last week that they were going to be adding those HD locals starting in April and adding 5-6,7 a month the rest of the year, so it is obvious that the April and May ones had nothing at all to do with the launch of AMC-14 in the first place - so why should its failure to reach its orbit affect those launches anyway? Let's see if they can continue to light them in June and July and so on.

The statement also just repeated the same things about national channels they MAY launch and still gave NO timeframe execpet later this year. So, that is still saying that it is waiting for a new satellite as I see it - maybe E11 instead of AMC-14, and maybe only an additional 3 month delay, but a delay regardless.

That being said, with the re-acquisition of some transponders from SkyAngel at the end of the month, I do believe they will launch a small portion of those named nationals, but the current situation of AMC-14 definitely will have an impact on the roll-out.


----------



## DStroyer

When people see a Dish Network dish (or 3) on your roof, they now automatically know you are "less affluent"!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-03-19-ergen-dish-network-echostar_N.htm


----------



## WebTraveler

davethestalker said:


> Too bad there hasn't been a new episode of Spobgebob on since 2005.
> 
> So, why should Fox even bother putting Speed in HD at all, since nobody is watching? Why should anyone bother putting anything in HD? There must be something to this whole goin' 'round in circles thing. Charlie dumps a whole bunch of cash to sponsor a few cars, dudn't he?


ok, so a 3-year old Spongebob easily creams a live Speed HD event. That SHOWS no one wants to watch that stuff and where priorities lie.


----------



## phrelin

DStroyer said:


> When people see a Dish Network dish (or 3) on your roof, they now automatically know you are "less affluent"!
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-03-19-ergen-dish-network-echostar_N.htm


Wondered why my home theater system seemed so impoverished not to mention the beggarly quality of available programming.


----------



## Richard King

From the USA TOday story:


> "You'd expect it to last 15 years," says Stifel Nicolaus' Kit Spring. "Maybe that will bring it down to 10 years."


Everything that I have seen is that the life would be shortened to 2-3 years, not 10. If it were 10 it would be an EASY decision to place it in its proper location. I don't think the person who stated 10 has any idea of what he is talking about and, if that it typical of the article, which I suspect it is, it should be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## killa milla

I was recently told by my well established SAT guy.. That they got a letter from dish stating, we would have our new HD channels by Christmas.. But there is a good chance they will have to change out our dish. Christmas can you believe that CRAP! Talk about waiting till the last minute. I have no reason not to believe these guys they have never lied to me.. They have always been right on when it come to dish news..


----------



## James Long

"Christmas" was, in essence, the promise given in January ... no date was given - just "by the end of 2008". Christmas is one week before the end of the year (close enough).

Over the past two weeks we have heard more information about who Christmas will come early for ... at least for local channels. No precise word on national HD.


----------



## TBoneit

DStroyer said:


> When people see a Dish Network dish (or 3) on your roof, they now automatically know you are "less affluent"!
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-03-19-ergen-dish-network-echostar_N.htm


Or they know that you are a thrifty type that doesn't buy a Rolls Royce when a Chevy will do.


----------



## klegg

WebTraveler said:


> ok, so a 3-year old Spongebob easily creams a live Speed HD event. That SHOWS no one wants to watch that stuff and where priorities lie.


...and I bet 4.8 million of those viewers spend A LOT of money on the products they are advertising too, huh...


----------



## Richard King

killa milla said:


> I was recently told by my well established SAT guy.. That they got a letter from dish stating, we would have our new HD channels by Christmas.. But there is a good chance they will have to change out our dish. Christmas can you believe that CRAP! Talk about waiting till the last minute. I have no reason not to believe these guys they have never lied to me.. They have always been right on when it come to dish news..


If they beat the "end of the year" they are ahead of schedule. There is nothing that he told you that is new.


----------



## lionsrule

Richard King said:


> If they beat the "end of the year" they are ahead of schedule. There is nothing that he told you that is new.


That is only true for additions of NATIONAL HD.

Each local DMA has it's own window that they have been informed as to an ETA.
Here in west michigan, the local engineer at woodtv8 is obviously geeked about the april/may time frame as he/she keeps posting updates on the avsforum.


----------



## rey_1178

diospyros said:


> Is there any channel doing HD right? Not that I can see. For instance, I haven't watched HD Theater in months. I think I would cry if I was paying a la carte eight bucks a month for it. Most of the "original air dates" are circa 2004.
> 
> Even if I had HD locals (which hopefully we will get in Cincinnati by the end of 2006 as promised :sure: ), or even if I could reliably get them OTA, the writers' strike pretty much eliminated a years worth of new network shows. I wouldn't actually watch that "reality" crap, though I guess it's OK for those who follow that stuff.
> 
> .


it's still more than what voom does :heybaby:


----------



## lionsrule

Hi everybody...

I sure don't want to sound like an unhappy guy, but boy do I sure have a suggestion for dish network. I sure do like the HD. And, I sure do like the science fiction. It would be really nice if dish network would do us all a big favor and start showing the scifi channel in HD. It sure was nice to see the pretty lady who plays six on the charlie chat last week. Do you think she would look even prettier in HD? I DO. 

I am sure dish will do what's best for us. They always do. I'm sure they know that the last season of BSG is starting soon.....

I know this post may have sounded a bit meanspirited, so I hope I didn't offend any of you.

All the best......


----------



## russ9

diospyros said:


> Is there any channel doing HD right? Not that I can see. For instance, I haven't watched HD Theater in months. I think I would cry if I was paying a la carte eight bucks a month for it. Most of the "original air dates" are circa 2004.


I understand we are suppose to be griping, but I think HDNet is "doing it right." They have quite a bit of new content, including Torchwood, which is as close to 'first run' as you can get. In addition, they are showing them without commercial interruption, saving me valuable seconds forwarding through commercials.


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## dreadlk

Its funny listening to how everybody can justify there situation with a different twist! The truth of course lies in the middle, with all the HD that Directv has they really only have about 10 good channels that are worth the HD logo and yet the E guys will never be happy unless they have all the same half assed HD channels as direct.


----------



## WebTraveler

klegg said:


> ...and I bet 4.8 million of those viewers spend A LOT of money on the products they are advertising too, huh...


 Perhaps....but all that marketing done to kids must work. I know my kids seem to talk me into buying these I swore I never would buy....!


----------



## rey_1178

dreadlk said:


> Its funny listening to how everybody can justify there situation with a different twist! The truth of course lies in the middle, with all the HD that Directv has they really only have about 10 good channels that are worth the HD logo and yet the E guys will never be happy unless they have all the same half assed HD channels as direct.


yeah baby! :alterhase


----------



## Cappyxavs

dreadlk said:


> Its funny listening to how everybody can justify there situation with a different twist! The truth of course lies in the middle, with all the HD that Directv has they really only have about 10 good channels that are worth the HD logo and yet the E guys will never be happy unless they have all the same half assed HD channels as direct.


it's all in what you feel are good channels. there are several i'd like to have from D such as sci-fi-hd and smithsonian. however if i switch to D then i will loose monster hd which we watch a lot. i have heard that D plans to release a new channel called chiller but nothing official i know about.

i will agree that quality outweighs quantity however with the 18off per month for 12 months and offering the tier equivelent to the E250 tier with hd channels however D is better because at this tier the dvr fees are dropped where E this won't happen until you get to the everything tier.


----------



## lukin4u

dreadlk said:


> Its funny listening to how everybody can justify there situation with a different twist! The truth of course lies in the middle, with all the HD that Directv has they really only have about 10 good channels that are worth the HD logo and yet the E guys will never be happy unless they have all the same half assed HD channels as direct.


its all about the hardware baby...


----------



## Cappyxavs

lukin4u said:


> its all about the hardware baby...


could you please elaberate on the hardware thing?
i'm thinking of switching from E to D in late may depending on who has what at that point and was wondering if possibly you have tried both and what hardware you prefer?

currently i have the 722 and if i stay with E i will acquire two 612 units.. if i switch to D i will acquire three HD DVR units.


----------



## WebTraveler

I think if Dish simply announced a few HD channels and definite dates people would stop whining.....but Dish doesn't. Instead it issues a press release that says it "may add" certain channels.....if they simply added USA HD, SCI-FI HD, and maybe a few others, it would calm the marketplace down.....but Dish doesn't. So you wonder what is up behind the scenes. But instead, those of us that are ready to sign up for HD are sitting here looking at the two providers and wondering what to do - after all its a 24 month committment....choose wrong and you are screwed.....


----------



## paulman182

Cappyxavs said:


> it's all in what you feel are good channels. there are several i'd like to have from D such as sci-fi-hd and smithsonian. however if i switch to D then i will loose monster hd which we watch a lot. i have heard that D plans to release a new channel called chiller but nothing official i know about.


DirecTV has Chiller in SD but it is mostly old TV series. Movies are edited and contain commercials.

It is still a good channel for the old TV episodes, however.


----------



## TulsaOK

WebTraveler said:


> - after all its a 24 month committment....choose wrong and you are screwed.....


You can terminate early by paying $10 for each month left on your commitment. I wouldn't exactly say that was being "screwed".


----------



## TulsaOK

Cappyxavs said:


> however if i switch to D then i will loose monster hd which we watch a lot.


In reading your post, maybe you should change your sig line to read "*Loost* In CyberSpace"


----------



## Kman68

Cappyxavs said:


> could you please elaberate on the hardware thing?
> i'm thinking of switching from E to D in late may depending on who has what at that point and was wondering if possibly you have tried both and what hardware you prefer?
> 
> currently i have the 722 and if i stay with E i will acquire two 612 units.. if i switch to D i will acquire three HD DVR units.


I have had both, plus TiVo for 8 years. If hardware, that is DVR, is important to you - do not switch to D*. I payed $200 to be a brief BETA tester for D*. Their DVR has a serious software flaw. It comes preloaded with a "Channels I get" list. Sounds pretty good, right? The E*list equivalent grows and shrinks with Free Previews and you would think that D* finally caught up with the technology. Wrong! "Channels I get" contains every channel in the D* line up including International, Sports, and Movie packages along with ABC-E, ABC-W, CBS-E, CBS-W...all the K*** and W***. "Channels I get" is the default Search and Auto Record list. This list can not be defeated with Parental Controls. If you block channels, programs that meet Search or Auto Record parameters show up as "title unavailable." If you set Auto Record for your favorite sports team, the DVR will record hours of black screen from channels you do not receive. Wow, you should see the deep blacks of an HD black screen. I thought this was user error, so I called D* tech support. After an hour on the telephone and consultation with a supervisor I was told "Since this is your first DVR, you will just have to learn to deal with it." Get that? D* tech support knows the software is defective and it is the customers' problem, now buzz off.

The 722 and TiVo both have great features the other lacks. I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite if TiVo series 3 worked with an HD satellite receiver. By law it does not, so I would have to say of the three DVRs, ViP 722 is the best.

Conversely, the HR20/21 should be avoided if you currently have DVR. If this really is your first DVR, you might learn to deal with it.

Oh yeah, the HR20 lights up like Christmas tree on the forth of July. Even after figuring out how to turn off the giant blue night light in the middle of the unit, I had to resort to duct tape to turn off all the other lights.

Do not just take my word, read what 300+ other users had to say at Cnet. Pay special attention to users (as above) who have experience with other DVRs. I dismissed their advice at my own peril.

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...ctv-plus/4852-6474_7-32065196.html?tag=uoavrg

PS. Even though D* advertises that the current receiver is the HR21, the only difference between the HR20 and the HR 21 is the color and the number of outputs. The HR20 has many more outlets than the HR21 - a cost cutting move.


----------



## rey_1178

good info kman68. i found this out the hard way by paying for D and disconnecting it the same day after i saw everything you stated in your post. i lost $348 but i wasn't going to pay a penny more for that. :uglyhamme


----------



## Ron Barry

Ok. guys.. wondering off topic here. Remember this is an E* "No HD" Gripe thread.. So lets try and stay away from hardware comparisons.... That of course could be another thread and I do believe we have had a few of those in the past..


----------



## FogCutter

Kman68,

I nearly took the plunge -- thankfully posts like yours straightened me out in time. Eventually E* will catch up in programming. No way to know if D* DVRs will ever be worthy.

Plus, I use the two independent TV feature of the 621 a lot, switching would mean another box and another fee.

I've been meaning to visit a friend of mine who has the HR21 so I can experience how bad it really is. It is his first DVR so he has nothing to compare it to. I'll take some duct tape.


----------



## GregLee

Kman68 said:


> It comes preloaded with a "Channels I get" list. Sounds pretty good, right? The E*list equivalent grows and shrinks with Free Previews and you would think that D* finally caught up with the technology. Wrong!


I have D* and the HR20. Last weekend there was a free preview of Cinemax, and in my IPG, before the weekend Cinemax was shown greyed out, meaning I don't get it, over the weekend during the free preview it was shown not greyed out, and now on Monday it's greyed out again. So what you say here about the HR20 is no longer completely true.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Kman68 said:


> I have had both, plus TiVo for 8 years. If hardware, that is DVR, is important to you - do not switch to D.


Thank's soo much for the most valuable input. after hearing that chiller is loaded with commercials and only sd i'm thinking to stay with E. I do enjoy monster hd very much and it is commercial free. the 722 is a really nice unit and i guess i thought a dvr is a dvr but after reading your statement it would appear that the D dvr is closer to an abortion. one last thing mentioned above i too use that backfeed feature of the 722 for multiple rooms which i would loose with D.


----------



## Ron Barry

*Moderator Note!!!*

Did you guys miss my Off Topic warning.. Lets get back on topic.. All new posts relating to DVR comparisons will be deleted in this thread. This is the HD Gripe thread.... Feel free to create a 722 Rocks thread.. I will be happy to participate...


----------



## texaswolf

Ron Barry said:


> *Moderator Note!!!*
> 
> Did you guys miss my Off Topic warning.. Lets get back on topic.. All new posts relating to DVR comparisons will be deleted in this thread. This is the HD Gripe thread.... Feel free to create a 722 Rocks thread.. I will be happy to participate...


Let me see if i can help get back on track:

Can't seem to negotiate new HD channels....

Can't seem to get a Sat in orbit.....

and to top it off...common sense says move an HD channel (BTN) from the already sparse AT100, to a more expensive tier.....:nono2:

there...hows that for starters?


----------



## phrelin

And Thursday, April 3, I'm going to be watching USA and SciFi in HD!


----------



## texaswolf

you make the jump?


----------



## jclewter79

phrelin said:


> And Thursday, April 3, I'm going to be watching USA and SciFi in HD!


Tell me you did not make the jump to the D*ark side?


----------



## rey_1178

FLIP THE SWITCH ON SOME OF THESE CHANNELS ALREADY! GEES!!!!:bonk1: :bang


----------



## TBoneit

Stray thought.
Thread title is "The "No HD" Gripe Thread"

Should be "The "No New HD" Gripe Thread"

A watched pot never boils.

I already have more HD than I can watch. I've been cherry picking from the selection as is. Despite that I managed to fill up two 500Gig EHDs and two 320 Gig EHDs.

I've been toying with the idea of dropping down one package from the Everything package and at the same time saving some money and freeing up space on the EHDs. And since the networks have started up some new shows again I'll have even more to watch in the same time frame.

For those that want the commercial laden Sci-Fi channel and USA I feel for you. Myself I can't recall the last thing I watched on them or FX or many of the other requested channels. It isn't because they aren't in HD as a good portion of my watching is in SD.

And don't get me started with those censored animated logos and coming attraction plugs or squeezing the credits to plug something.


----------



## James Long

TBoneit said:


> Stray thought.
> Thread title is "The "No HD" Gripe Thread"
> 
> Should be "The "No New HD" Gripe Thread"


The title was based on the gripe at the time of creation ... while theoretically incorrect the gripe was focused on "where's the HD" ... not "where's the new HD". Trying to get the complainers to see the forest of available channels around the one or two "missing" channels each complainer cares about is one of the defenses against their rants.


----------



## texaswolf

jclewter79 said:


> Tell me you did not make the jump to the D*ark side?


If we don't get Sci FI HD by Apr. 4th, i will be making the jump to D*.........over at my friends house to watch BSG in HD...then come back home.....:lol:


----------



## James Long

I thought DISH was the dark side ... since the channels are dark ...


----------



## James Long

A reminder:


Ron Barry said:


> All new posts relating to DVR comparisons will be deleted in this thread.


Please don't waste your time posting and our time deleting off-topic messages.
Thanks!

:backtotop


----------



## Cappyxavs

I have a great idea,

Why doesn't E just trade some of those ppv hd slots for something we all like? the ppv and premium sports pack tier is the only darn thing rapidly expanding any more and honestly i have the answer to ppvhd already called Blu-ray


----------



## texaswolf

Cappyxavs said:


> I have a great idea,
> 
> Why doesn't E just trade some of those ppv hd slots for something we all like? the ppv and premium sports pack tier is the only darn thing rapidly expanding any more and honestly i have the answer to ppvhd already called Blu-ray


Because *eventually* they will get a bird in the sky correctly, and it wont be an issue.


----------



## Cappyxavs

texaswolf said:


> Because *eventually* they will get a bird in the sky correctly, and it wont be an issue.


Failure to launch or failure to orbit:lol: 
maybe next time they should use a giant sling shot....


----------



## texaswolf

Cappyxavs said:


> Failure to launch or failure to orbit:lol:
> maybe next time they should use a giant sling shot....


lol..i did say *eventually!*

Watch now Direct will put back on that commercial with their sat knocking out D*s, and this time saying "a much bigger choice on HD, and we have no problem getting it up ":lol:


----------



## WebTraveler

TulsaOK said:


> You can terminate early by paying $10 for each month left on your commitment. I wouldn't exactly say that was being "screwed".


So that's a potential $240 (24 * $10) plus the up front costs of Directv plus some re-wiring charges to hide the wires, etc. Most Directv installs around here are pretty sloppy wiring jobs on the outside of the home. Makes the home look pretty bad.

So it is a chunk of change. You may not think so, but that's good for you. If I unloaded $240 plus cost of receivers and related installation charges I am looking at an extra $500 or so, not exactly pocket change to me....


----------



## harsh

TulsaOK said:


> You can terminate early by paying $10 for each month left on your commitment. I wouldn't exactly say that was being "screwed".


If $10/month doesn't grab you, perhaps the actual fee(s) will. You need to _carefully_ read the DIRECTV Equipment Lease Addendum.

The key part of the addendum is:



Addendum said:


> If you fail to maintain your minimum programming commitment, you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a prorated fee of up to $360 for standard receivers and up to $480 for advanced products/receivers (e.g., DVR, HD, HD DVR, etc.).


It would appear that if you had DIRECTV with HD Access installed today and decided to cancel next month (or next week), it would cost you at least $460 on top of any lease entry fees that you had paid. There would likely be some additional penalties and/or forfeiture of credits on any promotional deals.


----------



## Mr.72

harsh, that's right and let me tell you, even if you return the receiver and you are well within your termination rights, dealing with DirecTV on a termination with equipment return is a disaster waiting to happen. I went through this and it took them about three months to stop sending me bills and collection agents trying to get me to pay $700 or so for this mysteriously lost receiver, even though clearly someone signed for it and they received it according to the FedEx record. 

I actually had a pretty good 12+ year long customer relationship with DirecTV before this complete customer service disaster called "HD upgrade" and then they erased over a decade of good will in just two short weeks. If any part of their business plan worked as efficiently as their anti-marketing of the customer service dept works, they would rival Microsoft for market penetration. They made instilling hatred from their customers look like some kind of perverse art. Maybe dish is just as bad, I don't know. If I ever find out, I may just set my tv on fire.


----------



## James Long

:backtotop


----------



## TulsaOK

WebTraveler said:


> So that's a potential $240 (24 * $10) plus the up front costs of Directv plus some re-wiring charges to hide the wires, etc. Most Directv installs around here are pretty sloppy wiring jobs on the outside of the home. Makes the home look pretty bad.
> 
> So it is a chunk of change. You may not think so, but that's good for you. If I unloaded $240 plus cost of receivers and related installation charges I am looking at an extra $500 or so, not exactly pocket change to me....


I was assuming that you wouldn't be bailing in the first month. If that's the case, if I were you, I would avoid commitments altogether.


----------



## lionsrule

I thought I'd stir the pot a little and remind everyone that the last NATIONAL HD channel to be added was: FOODHD on August 16th 2007.

Talk about something to gripe about.........going on a 9 months folks...


----------



## James Long

lionsrule said:


> I thought I'd stir the pot a little and remind everyone that the last NATIONAL HD channel to be added was: FOODHD on August 16th 2007.
> 
> Talk about something to gripe about.........going on a 9 months folks...


NHL Network was added 10/17/07
TBS HD was added 10/5/07
BTN HD was added 9/13/07
HISTORY HD became available 9/4/07
The other DISCOVERY channels became available in August ...

Food HD has been available since 8/16/2006 ....

Stir using the right fork.


----------



## lionsrule

James Long said:


> NHL Network was added 10/17/07
> TBS HD was added 10/5/07
> BTN HD was added 9/13/07
> HISTORY HD became available 9/4/07
> The other DISCOVERY channels became available in August ...
> 
> Food HD has been available since 8/16/2006 ....
> 
> Stir using the right fork.


Ok, you got me....kind of....

BTN HD is NOT a national channel (as debated to DEATH in another thread).
TBS HD seems to have not had OAR HD since the MLB playoffs last fall.

I'll give ya NHL and HISTORYHD (9/4/07)...in any regard...the time has come!

Sorry for the bad info, BUT.....Some of have jobs ya know....


----------



## Stewart Vernon

lionsrule said:


> TBS HD seems to have not had OAR HD since the MLB playoffs last fall.


I agree with you here... BUT TBS"HD" was one of those channels where people were screaming "give me TBSHD or I will leave tomorrow" deals... and Dish, unfortunately, listened and caved and brought the channel live... and we see what a mistake that was caving to the pressure of the MLB playoff demand at the time.

This is why I am on the fence in terms of complaining. I'd like more HD... but I don't want more "HD" like TBS... so I'm hesitant to jump on the bandwagon of the week for channel X or channel Y... only to find out that maybe it wasn't as good as advertised.

UniversalHD is another example of a channel that DirecTV had before Dish did... and everyone wanted it... but frankly it doesn't get a lot of play these days either, and most folks could do without it... especially if we eventually get USA and SciFi in HD.

So as always, be careful what you wish for (TBSHD) you might get it!


----------



## phrelin

From Mediaweek:


> While USA Network has yet to cede any ground in the prime-time ratings race since the year began, winning its twelfth consecutive week among total viewers....
> 
> Last week, USA averaged 2.81 million total viewers, while claiming three of ad-supported cable's top-rated individual programs. According to Nielsen Media Research for the week ended March 23, hour two of the NBC Universal net's WWE Raw package delivered 5.36 million viewers Monday night at 10 p.m., while the lead-in served up 4.64 million.
> 
> USA also held its stranglehold on the adults 25-54 set, averaging 1.25 million viewers in that demo.


Why is it, again, that Dish hasn't "turned on" USAHD? USA is the 5th most watched national network, well ahead of the CW and surprisingly close to NBC; and, of course, far ahead of any other non-broadcast channel including all of those non-broadcast HD channels offered by Dish.


----------



## lionsrule

phrelin said:


> From Mediaweek:
> Why is it, again, that Dish hasn't "turned on" USAHD? USA is the 5th most watched national network, well ahead of the CW and surprisingly close to NBC; and, of course, far ahead of any other non-broadcast channel including all of those non-broadcast HD channels offered by Dish.


I don't want usahd if it means giving up my stretch office reruns on tbs "HD".....


----------



## BNUMM

While it may be popular with cable customers it may not be as popular with Dish customers.


----------



## James Long

lionsrule said:


> Ok, you got me....kind of....


Kind of? You claim started out entirely false by stating that Food HD was added in August 2007. It was added in August 2006 ... every channel added over the past 20 months was added after Food HD. 

Sorry about BTN ... while it is an RSN it was made available on a national basis as part of the preview. But there were national channels added after that.


----------



## phrelin

BNUMM said:


> While it may be popular with cable customers it may not be as popular with Dish customers.


Personally, if it had to be a choice, I'd want SciFi. That happens to be my "niche" just as cooking or history buffs have their favorites - fortunately for them in HD. But I doubt that the silent majority of Dish customers are all that different from other "cable channel" customers when it comes to the general programming broadcast and cable channels.



lionsrule said:


> I don't want usahd if it means giving up my stretch office reruns on tbs "HD".....


Yeah, and I just can't wait for those daytime stretch-o-vision reruns of King of Queens. But in all fairness, when that's on TBSHD, USAHD is running a rerun of its original programming Monk which would be in wide screen, I think...well I'm a Dish Network customer, so I don't know.


----------



## zer0cool

I've kept quiet recently, hoping and praying that we could just get SCI-FI HD in time for the season premiere of Battlestar Galactica on April 4th.
Last night I opened up my BSG season 3 DVD's and watched the first disk, marveling at that free-falling Battlestar ablaze in the 4th episode!
I've got plans for next Friday to have some friends over and watch the Season 3 finale on DVD and then the season 4 premiere on Sci-Fi. What a disappointment it's going to be, going from DVD quality to standard Tv quality. (At least , there's no Season 3 HD-DVD to make matters worse.:hurah: )


----------



## Cappyxavs

They are finaly in!

After thinking about it for some time and reading the great posts on the issues concerning D's hd-dvr units i went ahead and ordered two new 612 units from E and extended my agreement 24mo's. i have always been satisfied with E's service and this is where the monster channel in hd lives so here is where i stay. 

the only real reason i thought of changing in the past was to acquire ST from D however at 269 plus the superfan price i would have no reason to even bother switching.


----------



## phrelin

Cappyxavs said:


> They are finaly in!
> 
> After thinking about it for some time and reading the great posts on the issues concerning D's hd-dvr units i went ahead and ordered two new 612 units from E and extended my agreement 24mo's. i have always been satisfied with E's service and this is where the monster channel in hd lives so here is where i stay.
> 
> the only real reason i thought of changing in the past was to acquire ST from D however at 269 plus the superfan price i would have no reason to even bother switching.


Let us know how those 612s work out for you. I've been wanting to replace my two 508s but the 612 thread has scared me off so far.


----------



## texaswolf

zer0cool said:


> I've kept quiet recently, hoping and praying that we could just get SCI-FI HD in time for the season premiere of Battlestar Galactica on April 4th.
> Last night I opened up my BSG season 3 DVD's and watched the first disk, marveling at that free-falling Battlestar ablaze in the 4th episode!
> I've got plans for next Friday to have some friends over and watch the Season 3 finale on DVD and then the season 4 premiere on Sci-Fi. What a disappointment it's going to be, going from DVD quality to standard Tv quality. (At least , there's no Season 3 HD-DVD to make matters worse.:hurah: )


Just do like me and and other Dish customers that want BSG in HD by the premier...find a friend that has Direct, and watch it over there:lol:

My brother in law just jumped to Direct from cable...since he wasn't getting a DVR...i really had nothing i could talk him out of...he's getting great promos, and all the channels he wants to see in HD...he'll have :shrug:


----------



## Cappyxavs

phrelin said:


> Let us know how those 612s work out for you. I've been wanting to replace my two 508s but the 612 thread has scared me off so far.


ooops now that i see that thread i am starting to second guess if this was a good move. if the 612 is just going to be problems i can still cancel tommorow and switch to D in june.


----------



## phrelin

Cappyxavs said:


> ooops now that i see that thread i am starting to second guess if this was a good move. if the 612 is just going to be problems i can still cancel tommorow and switch to D in june.


Why two 612s rather than two 722s?


----------



## russ9

zer0cool said:


> *Frak!*
> I've kept quiet recently, hoping and praying that we could just get SCI-FI HD in time for the season premiere of Battlestar Galactica on April 4th.
> Last night I opened up my BSG season 3 DVD's and watched the first disk, marveling at that free-falling Battlestar ablaze in the 4th episode!
> I've got plans for next Friday to have some friends over and watch the Season 3 finale on DVD and then the season 4 premiere on Sci-Fi. What a disappointment it's going to be, going from DVD quality to standard Tv quality. (At least , there's no Season 3 HD-DVD to make matters worse.:hurah: )


*So say we all!*

(Where are the gods when you need them?)


----------



## Gilitar

I am getting increasingly impatient with Dish. I really want USA, SciFi, and more Cinemax and HBO in HD. I have a great OTA setup so I'm good with locals.

Get those nationals up Dish! Time is ticking and my termination fee will be a non issue come years end.

*They have the bandwidth! It's called Voom.* What a waste of space!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Gilitar said:


> I am getting increasingly impatient with Dish. I really want USA, SciFi, and more Cinemax and HBO in HD. I have a great OTA setup so I'm good with locals.
> 
> Get those nationals up Dish! Time is ticking and my termination fee will be a non issue come years end.
> 
> *They have the bandwidth! It's called Voom.* What a waste of space!


I would actually consider more HBO and Cinemax a waste of space. Consider that when HBO/MAX goes all HD it will have several direct duplicates (east and west feeds) and then other channels carry similar movies but on a different schedule... I'll consider those a waste of space myself.

To each his/her own... which is why it's not good to play the "I'll trade this channel for that one" game because one person's trash is another one's treasure. Voom isn't without its faults and could stand some improvement, but I keep saying over and over how this criticism can be applied to most channels if you are really willing to be honest.


----------



## whatchel1

Gilitar said:


> I am getting increasingly impatient with Dish. I really want USA, SciFi, and more Cinemax and HBO in HD. I have a great OTA setup so I'm good with locals.
> 
> Get those nationals up Dish! Time is ticking and my termination fee will be a non issue come years end.
> 
> *They have the bandwidth! It's called Voom.* What a waste of space!


Just another case of I don't like Voom so why should it be on satellite. I don't care for the sports so why should it be carried? It's each to his own.


----------



## FogCutter

russ9 said:


> *So say we all!*
> 
> (Where are the gods when you need them?)


Cree Jaffa! Cree!


----------



## lionsrule

Regarding the likelihood of DISH adding ScifiHD before next weeks premier.....

The last time (I felt) there was a looming television event vs the upcoming addition of a channel being turned "ON" by dish was back when dish and the NFL Network were haggling over carriage. Back then, the only live games carried by NFL network were the pre-season games (now they have some regular season). I remember heading into the middle of summer HOPING that dish would begin carrying the channel so I could see some games (I'm a BIG NFL fan). What happened? Sure enough, AFTER the preseason was over, dish starting carrying the nfl network.........

The point being.........dish network does NOT give a YOU KNOW WHAT, whether they get something on the air in time for their customers. And in this case, it's not even a matter of getting it up, it's getting it up in HD.....even less important.

The only time I can remember dish being "pressured" into something, was the infamous TBSHD addition for MLB playoffs.....

So, which way is it going to go?

I don't think they will add it before the premier next week.........


----------



## Jerryinva

Can anyone remember what it was like when all you had to look at was OTA or crummy cable? Satellite tv reached a point in the early '80's where the cost to buy the hardware and get the channels available opened a new and exciting time. We are looking at a similiar experience today. HD is the future of a home entertainment option that will grow in popularity as the cost of hardware continues to drop and programming availability increases. I enjoyed being a part of the first exciting era and am looking forward to the second. Be thankful that we have as much to view as we have. Can you imagine what the next generation will enjoy? Thanks E*and D*. Keep up the good work........


----------



## lionsrule

Jerryinva said:


> Can anyone remember what it was like when all you had to look at was OTA or crummy cable? Satellite tv reached a point in the early '80's where the cost to buy the hardware and get the channels available opened a new and exciting time. We are looking at a similiar experience today. HD is the future of a home entertainment option that will grow in popularity as the cost of hardware continues to drop and programming availability increases. I enjoyed being a part of the first exciting era and am looking forward to the second. Be thankful that we have as much to view as we have. Can you imagine what the next generation will enjoy? Thanks E*and D*. Keep up the good work........


How much did you pay during the first era? FREE, right?

Well, I've paid well over $4,000 for my home theatre and sat equipment. I pay over $100/mo to dish network. Please forgive me if I am NOT grateful to dish or any other company. I PAY them for a service. I OWE them nothing.


----------



## Jerryinva

Thinking back, you're correct. The programming was free till Jan. '86. The average cost of a color tv was, in '81 dollars, about the same as today. The dish hardware, then, was $5,000 +. The hardware today is A LOT LESS costly. Free to the new customer. We need to understand that both satellite providers are in business to sell programming, not hardware. You better believe that the availability of programming is of great importance. Tonight when I look at the service of my choice, the entertainment value will be almost as good as it was back in '81.


----------



## TvilleBee

and if you look in the right place, you may even see a show from '81


----------



## Jerryinva

True....and it might be up-converted on TBS............


----------



## bdcottle

Well I have jumped to the d* side as of March 19th . on march 27th I got a call from e* that went like this.

Me: hello
Them: hello, this is E*, we understand that you do not have e*, is this right.
Me: that is correct.
Them: well we have a package with up to 4 receivers …
Me: sorry I canceled a few days ago.
Them: sorry to hear that, can I ask why.
Me: yes, two reasons really. For one, for the channels I want e* was charging me 86.39. For the same channels thru d* it will cost me half as much.
Them: I just checked their web site and it is 56.00 and that is just for a year so it’s not half as much.
Me: yes, but I get a 10.00 off sign up bonus. Plus 8.00 because I was a previous customer plus 5.00 off if I bundle with my quest bill. All said and done my bill will be 42.99. Anyway the second reason is the lack of HD.
Them: what channels?
Me: scifi usa speed fx.
Them: we have those channels.
Me: not in HD.
Them: yes we do.
Me: no you don’t. not in HD.
Them: yes we do.
Me: no you claim you will have them by the end of 2008 but you don’t have them now.
Them: it is before the end of 2008, I’m on the web site, we have them now.
Me: if someone told you that you have scifi and usa in HD than they lied to you.
Them: why would they lie to me. I’m telling you we have these channels in HD now.
Me: I had e* just a few days ago. You don’t have these channels in HD.
Them: do you have e* now?
Me: no, I canceled a few days ago because you don’t have these channels in HD.
Them: then how do you know we don’t have them?
Me: I check the forums every morning.
Them: well the forums are wrong, we have them now.
Me: they wanted to have them by now, but due to contract problems and the loss of two sat’s they don’t have them. Well one blew up and one is in a low useless orbit.
Them: yea well there going to take the shuttle up and refuel it and put it back up there.
Ok at this point I’m starting to think this is some sort of joke call and I’m starting to laugh at the guy.
Me: in the first place NASA doesn’t use the shuttle for commercial use and in the second place it would cost 30 times as much money to get the shuttle into orbit than the sat is worth. 
Them: yea they do, the space station is a commercial project.
At this point I’m laughing so hard that he gets pissed off, mumbles something and hangs up on me.
I hope they fire this guy quick or he’s going to get e* in a whole lot of trouble. And I hope this isn’t policy, to lie to get people into a contract then just keep saying we are working on it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm going to go off-topic and not rant about no HD but rather about people who are ranting 

I find it highly ironic (as if you could be any more ironic than by being ironic) that a regular theme in the forums is "why is Charlie/Dish cheap" or "why doesn't he care about the customer" or "why doesn't he pay up and get channel YYYY"...

BUT

I also see, sometimes even the same people, say things like "why does Dish charge" or "I'm not paying $XX" and "I'm emailing the CEO about paying too much" or "I'm going to switch to DirecTV/cable/FIOS if Charlie doesn't quit raising prices".

SO... Charlie is being "cheap" when he negotiates for channels and tries to get the lowest price for himself... but subscribers are not being "cheap" when they do the same thing?

Rant off, and back to topic...

I want more HD


----------



## Stewart Vernon

bdcottle said:


> I hope they fire this guy quick or he's going to get e* in a whole lot of trouble. And I hope this isn't policy, to lie to get people into a contract then just keep saying we are working on it.


Chances are this was not actually a Dish employee, but rather a reseller or perhaps even a scammer. I get calls all the time saying that I have been "randomly selected to receive a free satellite system"... which might be believable if the same guy didn't call me every month, and then some months instead of satellite he is selling a completely different product!

Meanwhile... I was getting messages from a financial company about every day for a couple of weeks. They would leave a "Hi, this is Bob calling for xxxx please call me back" and they addressed me by name. I knew I didn't have any dealings with them, so I ignored but finally called after a couple of weeks. The guy wanted to sign me up for a home equity loan, and I said no thanks. He kept asking why didn't I want money, and I kept saying I didn't need it right now.. and ultimately he got mad and hung up on me. On the plus side, I knew that IF he was legit that I would never sign up with that loan bank!


----------



## Cappyxavs

Jerryinva said:


> Can anyone remember what it was like when all you had to look at was OTA or crummy cable? Satellite tv reached a point in the early '80's where the cost to buy the hardware and get the channels available opened a new and exciting time. We are looking at a similiar experience today. HD is the future of a home entertainment option that will grow in popularity as the cost of hardware continues to drop and programming availability increases. I enjoyed being a part of the first exciting era and am looking forward to the second. Be thankful that we have as much to view as we have. Can you imagine what the next generation will enjoy? Thanks E*and D*. Keep up the good work........


i remember having this big antenna on the roof that needed to be rotated and the round channel selectors on our tv's. i also remember ghosts, snow and fine tuning.

i am very happy today with what i have it just beats several snowy channels.

any one remember people putting antennas on about 100' masts trying to beat the curvature of the earth and get some other states programming?


----------



## Jerryinva

I realize that there may not be a Dish retailer nearby. Or that retailer may not be a service friendly dealer. There are many sources to obtain Dish products and programming. If you are fortunate to have the option of contacting a local retailer, there will be times when solving a problem or asking questions could best be handled by that dealer. This is especially true when SS# is requested by "somebody" that claims they represents Dish. Look up the local guy and if nothing else, scope out his dealership. Beats the hassel of trying to relate to a telemarketer or for that matter, the CSR's in TIM BUCK TOO at Dish......


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> I'm going to go off-topic and not rant about no HD but rather about people who are ranting
> 
> I find it highly ironic (as if you could be any more ironic than by being ironic) that a regular theme in the forums is "why is Charlie/Dish cheap" or "why doesn't he care about the customer" or "why doesn't he pay up and get channel YYYY"...
> 
> BUT
> 
> I also see, sometimes even the same people, say things like "why does Dish charge" or "I'm not paying $XX" and "I'm emailing the CEO about paying too much" or "I'm going to switch to DirecTV/cable/FIOS if Charlie doesn't quit raising prices".
> 
> SO... Charlie is being "cheap" when he negotiates for channels and tries to get the lowest price for himself... but subscribers are not being "cheap" when they do the same thing?
> 
> Rant off, and back to topic...
> 
> I want more HD


one way to solve a majority of it...ala carte programming....of course then there will be some that comlain about how much certain channels cost, but most of the "why do i have to pay for this crummy channel to get the one i want" complaints will be gone :shrug:


----------



## Jerryinva

Cappyxavs said:


> i remember having this big antenna on the roof that needed to be rotated and the round channel selectors on our tv's. i also remember ghosts, snow and fine tuning.
> 
> i am very happy today with what i have it just beats several snowy channels.
> 
> any one remember people putting antennas on about 100' masts trying to beat the curvature of the earth and get some other states programming?


I do remember that our first tv, PHILCO, was only capable of receiving CH 2 from Greensboro, NC about 100miles south. It was like that for 18months while we waited, patiently, for the first local station to go on line. Fortunatly, we lived on a hill that was 1400' above sea level. The picture was snowy but fantastic.....Even the dealer that we purchased the tv from couldn't show a better picture.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Jerryinva said:


> I do remember that our first tv, PHILCO, was only capable of receiving CH 2 from Greensboro, NC about 100miles south. It was like that for 18months while we waited, patiently, for the first local station to go on line. Fortunatly, we lived on a hill that was 1400' above sea level. The picture was snowy but fantastic.....Even the dealer that we purchased the tv from couldn't show a better picture.


Good old Philco Ford
ours was the 25" cabinet hutch with stereophonic system which featured the new and state of the art 8 track player and ceramic tt


----------



## Cappyxavs

texaswolf said:


> one way to solve a majority of it...ala carte programming....of course then there will be some that comlain about how much certain channels cost, but most of the "why do i have to pay for this crummy channel to get the one i want" complaints will be gone :shrug:


i like the sound of the ala-cart thing. i also like the fact that if i have the 100 teir i can purchase all of the hd channels for the extra 10 bucks withyout getting the 250 pack.


----------



## normang

While Ala-Carte sounds really enticing, because of the way these contracts are negotiated, it will probably never happen, and even if it did, you would on average, pay more for what you get, even though potentially, because you reduce your channel count, you may be paying less, BUT, your cost per channel will be higher. While you may not care if your actually paying less, somehow its going to come back and bite someone else's cost. There is no free lunch.. Can be rather convoluted....

The industry as a whole needs to get a grip on costs.. otherwise eventually, its going to cost to much for whole tiers of people that will wind up scaling back to save money..


----------



## James Long

As long as the ratios stay the same (percentage of customers at each level) the providers will stick with what is tried and true.


----------



## WebTraveler

normang said:


> While Ala-Carte sounds really enticing, because of the way these contracts are negotiated, it will probably never happen, and even if it did, you would on average, pay more for what you get, even though potentially, because you reduce your channel count, you may be paying less, BUT, your cost per channel will be higher. While you may not care if your actually paying less, somehow its going to come back and bite someone else's cost. There is no free lunch.. Can be rather convoluted....
> 
> The industry as a whole needs to get a grip on costs.. otherwise eventually, its going to cost to much for whole tiers of people that will wind up scaling back to save money..


You really have no idea on this, since its never really been tried. While cost per channel may increase, it may not. It also forces channels to compete for a decreasing pool of viewers, so perhaps some consumers will actually get a better deal.

To get a "grip on costs" there needs to be rules on ownership. The channels owning the studios, and the cable systems owning the channels is what is driving up costs. Take Versus for example, it's owned by Comcast, shown on all Comcast systems, but yet outside of Comcast it is largely on other system's higher tiers. That tells you something about the real viewership and redeeming value of the channel.


----------



## Jim5506

It only tells me that they charge too much for the channel and it is put in higher tiers to pay for it.


----------



## harsh

WebTraveler said:


> You really have no idea on this, since its never really been tried.


A la carte was the model that C-band started with. As time went on, packaging became the order of the day.


----------



## phrelin

WebTraveler said:


> You really have no idea on this, since its never really been tried. While cost per channel may increase, it may not. It also forces channels to compete for a decreasing pool of viewers, so perhaps some consumers will actually get a better deal.





harsh said:


> A la carte was the model that C-band started with. As time went on, packaging became the order of the day.


With C-band there was a time we had access to a la carte but there wasn't nearly as many choices as offered in today's packages. I don't know if the current situation is inherently good or bad, but I tend to think having all those channels is good.

IMHO you really can't have all the various niche channels without some guarenteed basic revenue stream. Profitability isn't determined by what the channels get out of the package revenues - it probably isn't even enough revenue to keep them all beaming.

Compare the "packages" with the premiums which cost $10+ a month and fundamentally offer one channel with new content plus many that repeat old programming and old movies. The thing is, we regularly record only new programming (including the weekly movie premiers when the movie appeals) from the one channel in the package for $10 a month. All without advertising other than self-promotion, which means that this price is enough when there are enough subscribers.

Contrast the top "200" for $45.

It includes the following channels that we record regularly some new programming on: USA, Comedy Central, Lifetime, A&E, Sci-Fi, Bravo, AMC, IFC, TNT, TBS, BBCA, FX, CMT, ABCFamily, Hallmark. I think that price is ok even if we do have to put up with ad skipping. We're paying about $3 a month for each those channels. Plus for no additional cost we can occasionally watch the Food Network, WE, The Weather Channel, CNN, ESPN etc.

Here's my mindset: In our household, we pay $30 a month to record stuff off 3 channels without ads and $45 a month to record stuff off 15 channels with ads. I recognize that some of our $45 is distributed to channels I don't watch while some of your $45 is distributed to channels you don't watch. But for us the price is not too high for a discretionary spending choice.

Probably the best choice would be to read books instead of watching television. But that's not our choice. Probably the best deal for most folks would be off-the-air combined with dvd rental. As a practical matter most of what we watch one could get that way, if only OTA were available to us. But we can't get OTA where we choose to live and we are willing to pay for the relative conveniece of having a variety of series episodes and timely specials delivered to our home nightly.

With that all said, I think I'm still getting a raw deal on HD, even though I choose to pay the $20 a month. But when by April 3 Dish turns on USA HD now uplinked on 9431 and SCIFI HD now uplinked on 9432, I will view that $20 as a pricey deal but worth it for the extra technology.

(Yeah, yeah, James I know no one promised April 3. )


----------



## rey_1178

espn news hd debuted today and again something else we don't have. i know some of you might think this would be a waste of bandwidth but i would really like this channel.


----------



## TulsaOK

rey_1178 said:


> espn news hd debuted today and again something else we don't have. i know some of you might think this would be a waste of bandwidth but i would really like this channel.


Who is carrying this channel?


----------



## rey_1178

ESPNews, Disney, and Toon Disney will go live (with Directv) April 2nd. that's on a wed. maybe dish will do the same? don't want to get my hopes up. just wishing:sure:

still don't plan to move. just really want it here for all of us

The new channel has carriage deals with DirecTV, Comcast and Time Warner Cable.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

rey_1178 said:


> espn news hd debuted today and again something else we don't have. i know some of you might think this would be a waste of bandwidth but i would really like this channel.


Meh, this honestly is one of my least anticipated HD channels. No games, just people talking about games... and I can watch Sportscenter for that. I rarely watch ESPNews anyway, and I suspect in HD it will not offer much above what it does now.


----------



## Friendswood

HDMe....why does it seem that if it is not on Dish, you feel it's really not worth having?
When you compared HBO or Starz repeat broadcasting to that of Voom...you lost some credibility.


----------



## braven

HDMe said:


> Meh, this honestly is one of my least anticipated HD channels. No games, just people talking about games... and I can watch Sportscenter for that. I rarely watch ESPNews anyway, and I suspect in HD it will not offer much above what it does now.


Well I for one can't wait until April 2nd! I don't watch ESPNews either, but that's because it's in SD. When we get it in HD, that will change.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Yeah, cant wait. Talking heads in HD!!!!!


----------



## TBoneit

braven said:


> Well I for one can't wait until April 2nd! I don't watch ESPNews either, but that's because it's in SD. When we get it in HD, that will change.


Not to step on anybody's toes, however........

I'm sorry but I just don't get it. Either the content is worth watching or it isn't worth watching.

If it is worth watching I'd watch it 1/4 of a SD screen if nothing better was available. If it isn't worth watching that way then I wouldn't be watching it if it was 1080P full uncompressed on a 10 foot screen.

If I want to watch it I don't care if it is 16:9 or 4:3 with 5.1 Surround sound, stereo or monaural sound. And yes I have 16:9 HDTV and Surround sound system for when the content I want to spend time watching is available that way.

As I say I just don't get the whole I won't watch it if it isn't in HD thing. As I see it that means only the visual effect matters not the content. Does it also mean you won't listen to a radio broadcast as it is only audio and no video?

BTW you do know that HD is not the ultimate in visual. No 3D, No full resolution...

BTW talking heads = low bandwidth requirements.


----------



## texaswolf

braven said:


> Well I for one can't wait until April 2nd! I don't watch ESPNews either, but that's because it's in SD. When we get it in HD, that will change.


+1



> Yeah, cant wait. Talking heads in HD!!!!!


As long as they are good looking talking heads....Larry King is another story.

Imagine the subs Playboy could get if it was all HD....wait....is it? lol


----------



## HobbyTalk

texaswolf said:


> Imagine the subs Playboy could get if it was all HD....wait....is it? lol


I could comment but this might not be the place to do so :eek2:


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> Meh, this honestly is one of my least anticipated HD channels. No games, just people talking about games... and I can watch Sportscenter for that. I rarely watch ESPNews anyway, and I suspect in HD it will not offer much above what it does now.


I've never watched ESPNews. Having said that I never watched HGTV & Food Network & FLN before HD.

I know FLN isn't in HD, but they have travel shows, which I like. I don't go out, except to doctors appnts. HD has allowed me to see the world clearly! 44mm doesn't cut it for me anymore.


----------



## James Long

rey_1178 said:


> ESPNews, Disney, and Toon Disney will go live (with Directv) April 2nd. that's on a wed. maybe dish will do the same? don't want to get my hopes up. just wishing:sure:


Trial is May 14th in DISH suing ESPN. I would not expect ESPNews HD before then.


----------



## rey_1178

James Long said:


> Trial is May 14th in DISH suing ESPN. I would not expect ESPNews HD before then.


:bang


----------



## phrelin

TBoneit said:


> Not to step on anybody's toes, however........
> 
> I'm sorry but I just don't get it. Either the content is worth watching or it isn't worth watching.
> 
> If it is worth watching I'd watch it 1/4 of a SD screen if nothing better was available. If it isn't worth watching that way then I wouldn't be watching it if it was 1080P full uncompressed on a 10 foot screen.


I don't get it either, but apparently there are those who would watch a video of an inert stone on the ground if its in 1080p.

Still, there are some programs that are significantly more effective in HD. Of course, tv directors are going to have to figure out what shows to film in a softer focus now that HD is upon us. Some warts detract from the acting in sharp focus.:sure:


----------



## Cappyxavs

Paul Secic said:


> I've never watched ESPNews. Having said that I never watched HGTV & Food Network & FLN before HD.
> 
> I know FLN isn't in HD, but they have travel shows, which I like. I don't go out, except to doctors appnts. HD has allowed me to see the world clearly! 44mm doesn't cut it for me anymore.


rarely any more do i watch programming off the hd teir.

if it were alacart i would just get the hd channels and that's it.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Cappyxavs said:


> rarely any more do i watch programming off the hd teir.
> 
> if it were alacart i would just get the hd channels and that's it.


You can subscribe to just the HD channels.


----------



## richiephx

That's what we need, another ESPN channel with pillar bars and little HD content to recap the sports we just watched, listened to on the radio and can read about in tomorrow's newspaper. 24 hours of sports news? Just more repeats of the same information. Simple, make it ala carte for those who want it.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HobbyTalk said:


> You can subscribe to just the HD channels.


you still have to support at least the 100 tier. it's in the fine print at the mid or bottom of the site


----------



## HobbyTalk

Cappyxavs said:


> you still have to support at least the 100 tier. it's in the fine print at the mid or bottom of the site


Dish HD only programming is $29.99. No requirement to have AT100. Many already have it.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116716
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=120493


----------



## Cappyxavs

HobbyTalk said:


> Dish HD only programming is $29.99. No requirement to have AT100. Many already have it.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116716
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=120493


this is paragraph 2 from the site however i will check on this, thanks:

"DishHD programming is available only in conjunction with the following packages: America's Top 100, America's Top 200, America's Top 250, America's "Everything" Pak".

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


----------



## RasputinAXP

Cappyxavs said:


> this is paragraph 2 from the site however i will check on this, thanks:
> 
> "DishHD programming is available only in conjunction with the following packages: America's Top 100, America's Top 200, America's Top 250, America's "Everything" Pak".
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


Yeah. That's incorrect with respect to DishHD-only service.


----------



## harsh

Don't confuse DishHD with dishHD (the HD only package). DishHD is no longer available since it was split into dishHD Essential and dishHD Ultimate.

dishHD page: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


----------



## Cappyxavs

RasputinAXP said:


> Yeah. That's incorrect with respect to DishHD-only service.


hmmmmm this is going to require some thought. thing is i do need twc and sci fi which are not hd right now... see ala cart i could do the 29.95 add locals and buy maybe 5 sd channels and be happy.

i have the 100 and the ultimate and was thinking of going to the hd plan and keeping the 100 for 10 a month i'll get all the hd channels and get back disc sci and natl geo as well as nfl in hd. i wish they had like a at25 tier for 5.99


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Friendswood said:


> HDMe....why does it seem that if it is not on Dish, you feel it's really not worth having?
> When you compared HBO or Starz repeat broadcasting to that of Voom...you lost some credibility.


My determination of the value of a channel has nothing to do with whether or not Dish has it. Dish has TBSHD and that is a 100% waste of HD bandwidth since it never has any HD. I'm not a fan of the VS/Golf channel either in HD, though it at least sometimes does have HD and I know some folks watch it.

I also rarely watch UltraHD or RushHD from the Voom Suite. They are at least 24/7 HD channels, but the content isn't my cup of tea.

So where is it that you got the idea that I only dislike non-Dish HD channels?

As for HBO/Starz repeating... Are you telling me that you don't see them repeating movies? I see stuff on HBO that I remember watching on HBO back in 1985... so aside from new-premiere-Saturday night, I see a LOT of repeats and oldies. Also, Why are there 26 HBO/MAX channels? Are you saying you don't see a lot of repeating of programming across those 26 HBO/MAX channels? Whenever HBO/MAX goes full HD on their entire suite, there will be every bit as much, if not more, repeating across those 26 as there is on the Voom channels.

As for my credibility... I only offer my opinion on these matters. When stating facts I note them as such, everything else is my opinion and yours is just as valid as mine.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Cappyxavs said:


> hmmmmm this is going to require some thought.


Wait, wasn't you that just posted



> if it were alacart i would just get the hd channels and that's it.


Funny how when something become available for someone that they asked for, they then find something else to whine about


----------



## James Long

This thread has that purpose.


----------



## peak_reception

> I don't get it either, but apparently there are those who would watch a video of an inert stone on the ground if its in 1080p.


If the NASA channel was in HD we could see Martian rocks and landscapes in breathtaking detail 

I wonder how high the resolution of those cameras on the two rovers is?


----------



## Hunter Green

According to the Rover site's Instruments page,



> The Pancam cameras are small enough to fit in the palm of your hand (270 grams or about 9 ounces), but can generate panoramic image mosaics as large as 4,000 pixels high and 24,000 pixels around. Pancam detectors are CCDs (charge coupled devices). These devices form the image, just as film does in a film camera.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HobbyTalk said:


> Wait, wasn't you that just posted
> 
> Funny how when something become available for someone that they asked for, they then find something else to whine about


yeah you actualy start thinking about the hannels you watch

i would need locals and about five to ten select sd channels.


----------



## lionsrule

Does anyone think dish will turn on any national hd channels this week?


----------



## James Long

A lot of people think a lot of things. Some people are right, some are wrong.

Plenty of channels that may or may not be made available "soon".


----------



## HobbyTalk

Hummmmm..... let me think about that for a couple of days then I'll let you know


----------



## lionsrule

This week:

ESPNEWSHD

SCIFIHD

USAHD


----------



## phrelin

I believe this week is when the pigs fly.


----------



## texaswolf

lionsrule said:


> Does anyone think dish will turn on any national hd channels this week?


I'm hoping for Sci Fi for the BSG premier......but I'm honestly not expecting anything yet.


----------



## lionsrule

here's a rant about HD, and the work involved in even getting it.........

Remember when tv shows used to display a banner at the beginning of the show informing you "this show's in stereo". How long did the need to "brag" or advertise the fact that the broadcast sounded as good as current technology allowed? It seems like it's been much longer.....at least 5 years by my count, that the networks have made a point of displaying a special notice about the program being in HD. Why can't that simply be the standard? All this drama over, let's say, espn news being in HD. Get over yourself already, start showing us the damn picture in the best possible resolution. Isn't that what we pay you for? The real problem here is whenever a type of programming doesn't have any competition. Take espn, if foxsports had as powerful of a national sportscenter type broadcast and didn't hold out providing the best possible sights and sounds of the network.....guess what? ESPN would be throwing HD at every provider...no questions or haggling involved. 

Point being........"color tv" simply became TV, "stereo/surround sound" simply became sound, I want scifiHD to simply be know as scifi........


----------



## booger

Smithsonian HD
MGM HD
ESPN New HD
Sci-Fi HD
USA-HD

Plus more local HD markets.

My predictions.

I remember watching Sci-Fi coming on for the first time on my parents BUD.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Basket Weaving HD


----------



## texaswolf

Cappyxavs said:


> Basket Weaving HD


Thats already on the VOOM channels...comes on right after Flea Market shopping in HD:lol:


----------



## russ9

lionsrule said:


> here's a rant about HD, and the work involved in even getting it.........
> 
> Remember when tv shows used to display a banner at the beginning of the show informing you "this show's in stereo"....
> 
> Point being........"color tv" simply became TV, "stereo/surround sound" simply became sound, I want scifiHD to simply be know as scifi........


I remember when NBC was "brought to you in LIVING color"

Does Dish still advertise "100% digital quality"?

I agree with you, hopefully it will happen while my eyes can still see the difference..


----------



## lukin4u

hopefully when i wake tomorrow and see this thread 

there will be less gripes


what are the odds


----------



## Cappyxavs

russ9 said:


> I remember when NBC was "brought to you in LIVING color"
> 
> Does Dish still advertise "100% digital quality"?
> 
> I agree with you, hopefully it will happen while my eyes can still see the difference..


Anyone remember the NBC peacock? the color tail would spread and the 3 note tune would sound N-B-C


----------



## lionsrule

I can't wait to post in this thread tomorrow...


----------



## James Long

You must ... if you don't wait it won't be tomorrow.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> You must ... if you don't wait it won't be tomorrow.


Chuck Norris CAN post in this thread tomorrow without waiting!


----------



## HobbyTalk

It is tomorrow someplace.


----------



## whatchel1

booger said:


> Smithsonian HD
> MGM HD
> ESPN New HD
> Sci-Fi HD
> USA-HD
> 
> Plus more local HD markets.
> 
> My predictions.
> 
> I remember watching Sci-Fi coming on for the first time on my parents BUD.


How many remember the graphics that ran for the month before SciFi on the BUD?


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> Chuck Norris CAN post in this thread tomorrow without waiting!


yes...yes he can..


----------



## phrelin

HobbyTalk said:


> It is tomorrow someplace.


It's already tomorrow, 2:36 AM EDT. Guess its time to get some shuteye.


----------



## lionsrule

So, I see dish is chasing the leader again....

You should front page the 3 great new national hd's that direct got today to really p'off us dish customers. I'm jumping this sinking ship if we don't get any new nationals this week........


----------



## booger

I didn't have time to check this morning before leaving for work. So now new HD today??


----------



## rey_1178

d* got espnews ,toon disney, disney in hd this morning. we're still in the dark!


----------



## russ9

It's not looking good for BSG in HD. Does BS count as two out of three.


----------



## booger

So I guess no new HD.

This thread will explode in a few hours from now. Once it starts to sink in.

It's all over now....:nono2:


----------



## lionsrule

kaBOOM


----------



## rey_1178

:hair: :soapbox: :ramblinon :beatdeadhorse: :box: :bang :bang :bang :bang :bang


----------



## Suriel

So, I see dish is chasing the leader again....

You should front page the 3 great new national hd's that direct got today to really p'off us dish customers. I'm jumping this sinking ship if we don't get any new nationals this week........

I'm outta here too!


----------



## OinkinOregon

!Devil_lol SUCKA'S

I am so sick of this! What is Charlie waiting on, a MOB on his doorstep!!:icon_lame !pusht! reach: :soapbox: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair:


----------



## russ9

Can we start a "no smiley's in HD" thread?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Well its nice to know I can go to Japan for a month and a half and NOTHING changed while I was gone. I was worried/hoping I would miss something, guess not.


----------



## lionsrule

hey now....at least we can watch the office in TBS"HD"...


----------



## phrelin

The pigs didn't fly, they died.

So, unless something unusual happens after 20 years with Echostar equipment and services tomorrow morning I go visit the local DirecTV dealer. :icon_cry:

It's sad, because no SciFiHD this week cannot be a tech issue, just a contract issue. And because they had Number 6 on the Charlie Chat I now think Charlie and company have somehow become dumber than rocks. It was like screaming out: "We know this show has a significant audience, but we really don't care about _our_ HD customers.":nono:


----------



## booger

The SG's are reporting that ESPN News HD and more local HD channels will fire up this afternoon on Dish. Abilene, Beaumont, Grand Rapids, Richmond, and Green Bay


----------



## nsps

ESPN News HD is all? I was hoping for MGM HD. (Unless it doesn't run movies commercial free, in which case I don't really care about it.)


----------



## rey_1178

russ9 said:


> Can we start a "no smiley's in HD" thread?


nnooooo:nono2:


----------



## elbodude

4 Major sports teams: Sharks, Giants, A's, Warriors. No HD! Come on E*!!! CSNBA HD!!! What is the holdup?


----------



## rey_1178

according to SG no new national HD guys. :nono:


----------



## booger

Game Over.


----------



## 0pusX

what are "SG" 's?


----------



## russ9

phrelin said:


> It's sad, because no SciFiHD this week cannot be a tech issue, just a contract issue. And because they had Number 6 on the Charlie Chat I now think Charlie and company have somehow become dumber than rocks. It was like screaming out: "We know this show has a significant audience, but we really don't care about _our_ HD customers.":nono:


Phrelin, don't leave us, it's not the end of the world.

Or is it?

For 40 years we sat alone and waited for SciFiHD, then she walked in.....


----------



## GrayCalx

Suriel said:


> So, I see dish is chasing the leader again....
> 
> You should front page the 3 great new national hd's that direct got today to really p'off us dish customers. I'm jumping this sinking ship if we don't get any new nationals this week........
> 
> I'm outta here too!


Can you post this same line in a few more threads? I just can't get enough of it. I want to read it in every thread!!! In fact i hope they delete all the posts and just keep repeating this one.


----------



## braven

nsps said:


> ESPN News HD is all? I was hoping for MGM HD. (Unless it doesn't run movies commercial free, in which case I don't really care about it.)


FYI

MGMHD is commercial free and uncut.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I have been thinking that since it appears that our HD LiLs will be on 61.5 requiring a 2nd dish and they want to charge to install it (plus the extra holes in the roof, the iffy LOS and no chance of getting the "eastern arc" in the future), I may as well look into investing that $$$$ into switching the D*

The bad is that D* doesn't have the local LIN station in HD and the appearance that the D* recevier is not as user friendly. I figure at some point they'll get the LIN stations and I figure I'll get used to the receiver. Yeah, I'll have to eat about $150.00 to buy out the contract but that's not a big deal to me... the D* discounts will about cover that.


----------



## 0pusX

I agree Hobby, I love my Dish DVR, but if I am missing a bunch of channels, what good is a better receiver??

I just called and to cancel early it will cost me $147, then $99 startup cost for Direct TV.


----------



## dreadlk

Friend of mine tried to buy an HR21/20 in Miami area. He went to 8 stores ranging from Brandsmart, Costco, Circuit city and Best Buy, he had absolutely no luck finding a receiver, they are sold out everywhere! I suspect that this lack of HD problem is hitting Echo a lot worst than most of us suspected.


----------



## HobbyTalk

My contract buyout is $120. If I offset that with the D* $18 mo. discount for 12 mo. and free movie channles for 3 months, that more then offsets that cost. Plus I could get a 2nd receiver for the bedroom at no extra cost.


----------



## phrelin

russ9 said:


> Phrelin, don't leave us, it's not the end of the world.
> 
> Or is it?
> 
> For 40 years we sat alone and waited for SciFiHD, then she walked in.....


All I said was "tomorrow morning I go visit the local DirecTV dealer."

What I was looking at is to drop down to HD-only. I'm currently paying $49.98 Dish DVR Advantage with the top 200 and $20.00 for HD Ultimate totalling $69.98. I'm probably confused about this, but I think I'd be paying $29.98 with the HD only, saving $40. Then I'd drop my two 508s saving $10. So saving $50.

As I calculate it on the DirecTV web site, I can get the following package for a year:
CHOICE $52.99
DIRECTV DVR Service $5.99
HD Access $9.99
Lease Fee $4.99
Total Monthly Bill: $73.96
Online Redemption -$18.00
Final Monthly Total: $55.96

That would be a net increase $5.96 a month. Plus I'd be paying a setup fee to DirecTV and a downgrade fee to Dish.

But I'd be getting all the HD nationals I want. And I'd still be able to record movies and put them on the 722's EHD I've designated "Movies."

And I'd avoid a contract buyout cost.

I can't figure out any other way of getting what I want. So if SciFi HD doesn't come on by tomorrow morning I go visit the local DirecTV dealer.


----------



## russ9

I may just drive around looking for DirecTV dishes and ask if I can watch.....


----------



## razorbackfan

What I don't understand, and this is a serious question, is it seems every time a national channel is in HD, Directv adds it, almost immediately. Dish...nothing. 

The Dish executives have to be aware of what their competition is doing, and has to be aware of all the new HD channels Directv and cable are adding. I wonder how many customers Dish is really loosing, and I wonder how many emails and phone calls they are receiving about their lack of HD programming. New HD channels "soon" is becoming a tired cliché. I am honestly hoping for new HD channels April 4th (of this year), but honestly, I am very disappointed in Dish. Yes, I am getting the HD channels I am paying for, but would love to be on par with the Directv offerings (I have an 18 month commitment with Dish, so I won't change to Directv). 

I don't understand this business practice Dish has of leaving everyone in the dark, leaving everyone guessing, and leaving most of us disappointed.


----------



## crookedcarrot

Man I just read about Direct getting the Disney channels and what not and remember a lot of people saying that those were the only thing holding them back from switching over. Was that the final nail in the coffin for anyone?


----------



## Cappyxavs

i am due to recieve two 612 units this saturday however with tis news i am starting to wonder why i am staying. for less money i can get the top national tier. it seems like E is rushing to add local hd channels and since i live in a third rate market i know where i stand in that line so they have lost me with that. i'm about ready to call and find out how long i have to cancel the instal and what my buyout would be since my contract ends june 2nd it may not be that much. i'll miss monster but i'll get over it.


----------



## lionsrule

And the fact of the matter is that people are WATCHING FOR additions like disney,espn,scifi,fx,comedy.....NOT kungfuHD or Equator or some other canadian network 99 percent of the country has never heard of. All of you VOOM defenders can come rushing in if you want, but you are in DENIAL. Executives at direct must LAUGH AT LOUD whenever charlie talks up the voom channels and tries to compare them or include then when comparing to directs line up. GO, read the thread in the direct section talking about todays programming on disneyHD or TOONDisneyHD....ever heard of those shows? I HAVE and so HAVE YOU. Now, go try to FIND a thread talking about the programming on animaniaHD....ever heard of those shows.....no you HAVEN'T and neither has anyone else (I actually sat through a frickin cartoon I never heard of on there that started talking in FRENCH, WTF). 

Let the DEFECTIONS begin, DISH IS A SINKING SHIP, and I'm PISSED.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I'm not sure why people would be pissed. It's TV. You either stay and make your life miserable or you switch to something else that you think will make you happier. Life is too short to have TV ruin my day, their are far more important things in life.

I went and spent 3 months in Yellowstone and didn't watch TV once (there is no TV in Yellowstone) and you know what? I lived through it and seen things that most of you will never see.


----------



## lionsrule

HobbyTalk said:


> I'm not sure why people would be pissed. It's TV. You either stay and make your life miserable or you switch to something else that you think will make you happier. Life is too short to have TV ruin my day, their are far more important things in life.
> 
> I went and spent 3 months in Yellowstone and didn't watch TV once (there is no TV in Yellowstone) and you know what? I lived through it and seen things that most of you will never see.


RIIIIIIIIGHT, it's only tv. Feeling like a hypocrit tonight? You are reading and responding to people talking about TV.....if tv isn't important to you GET OUT. Go read comments about something you DO think is important, unless you like spending time reading and formulating opinions about unimportant things.


----------



## braven

HobbyTalk said:


> I'm not sure why people would be pissed. It's TV. You either stay and make your life miserable or you switch to something else that you think will make you happier. Life is too short to have TV ruin my day, their are far more important things in life.
> 
> *I went and spent 3 months in Yellowstone and didn't watch TV once* *(there is no TV in Yellowstone) and you know what*? I lived through it and seen things that most of you will never see.


Want a cookie? :lol:


----------



## lionsrule

How about a P I C K A N I C BASKET......


----------



## neowaxworks

Long time lurker.. 
As best as I can see... appareantly Dish had Tricia Helfler on the Charley Chat, so people would think Sci-fiHD would be lit up in time, and they get the money form the sub for that one more month....
There is simply no other reason to not have it lit up.. the space is there, the stream is there and being used for place holder video..
THey know people want it for BSG... and ther eis no way a contract would take THIS long (Channels been there since last year)


Heck maybe it is their strategy.. take care of their piracy problem.. after all who is going to hack Dish when they don't have the channels people want ..lol

I will be switching to Dtv... bad recievers or no, they would still be less aggrivation and frustration of waiting for nothing...


----------



## HobbyTalk

It is only TV. It is not something that is going to spoil my day and kick my dog about. If someone is THAT upset because they are missing a few HD channels, do something about instead of raising your blood pressure, stomping your feet and ruining your day.

Do I wish E* had more HD? Sure, I don't like it. But I have investigated my options and will be visiting the D* dealer tomorrow to investigate further. The E* commitment doesn't matter, I'll lose $120 to cancel. From what I have seen the D* discounts and freebies will MORE then make up for that $120 loss.... I'll come out ahead $$$$ wise if I switch and I suspect most others would too.

Yea for Neo.... one of the smart ones!


----------



## lionsrule

BTW, if you are as wise as you claim.......

Don't buy from a "dealer". You go DIRECTLY to the source....DIRECTV.com or their 800 number. Start stacking discounts.......AAA, 18 bucks off/mo,$20 green discount, (2) HR21's for $99,$50 referal,etc.....


----------



## Ron Barry

*Ok guys.. lets keep away from the personal attacks. Everyone has a right to their opinion here so lets try to stay way from the personal digs.*


----------



## booger

0pusX said:


> what are "SG" 's?


The Sat Guys.


----------



## rey_1178

has there ever been a channel lit up on a thursday or any other day that is not a wednesday?


----------



## Cappyxavs

just talked to dish cust rep. i was informed that the hd channel teir will be increasing in the next 2 months. don't know if she was bs'n me but at least there is hope. really can't imagine it not happening as it would be like E signing it's death cert.


----------



## James Long

rey_1178 said:


> has there ever been a channel lit up on a thursday or any other day that is not a wednesday?


Yes ... Thursday is as common as Wednesday ... and other days have seen additions.

Guys and Gals: Let's try something that has been lacking ... try griping like mature adults disappointed by what they observe and less like a two year old who can't have a toy. I've seen a lot of mature comments on our site ... let's see more mature comments!

Please note that although this thread has been set up to collect your "gripes" that forum rules still apply. Repeated posts can be considered spam and deleted ... out of control rants will be (as they have already) dealt with accordingly. If you have any questions about this, PM a moderator - any moderator.

Thanks!

:backtotop


----------



## Cappyxavs

good news... 20 bucks to exit my contract


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> good news... 20 bucks to exit my contract


THere will be lots of that happening if Sci-fiHD isn't on for BSG Friday...everyone I know for sure....and from the various threads across all the forums, I would say it will be pretty large nationally...


----------



## HobbyTalk

lionsrule said:


> BTW, if you are as wise as you claim.......
> 
> Don't buy from a "dealer". You go DIRECTLY to the source....DIRECTV.com or their 800 number. Start stacking discounts.......AAA, 18 bucks off/mo,$20 green discount, (2) HR21's for $99,$50 referal,etc.....


We'll see what the local dealer says. The only way to make a knowledgeable decision is to get all of the info and go from there. With some of the problems people have had with "national" contractors, the lowest cost may not be the best deal


----------



## HIPAR

Cappyxavs said:


> good news... 20 bucks to exit my contract


Heck, that's not even a half of tank of gas. Stop agonizing and go over to where you will be happy. DirecTV has lots of really satisfied customers and is way ahead in satellites.

--- CHAS


----------



## Jestr40

HobbyTalk said:


> We'll see what the local dealer says. The only way to make a knowledgeable decision is to get all of the info and go from there. With some of the problems people have had with "national" contractors, the lowest cost may not be the best deal


This may be true but FYI, I have two friends that have "defected" from dish and D* was very generous to them with equiptment and install (length of contract,not so much, 2 yr.). BUT, as I have said before, to each there own, I am happy with D*, but DISH WILL have every channel in HD that D* does with time.


----------



## crookedcarrot

Cappyxavs said:


> just talked to dish cust rep. i was informed that the hd channel teir will be increasing in the next 2 months. don't know if she was bs'n me but at least there is hope. really can't imagine it not happening as it would be like E signing it's death cert.


I would take that with a grain of salt- they'll say "soon" and all the other catchphrases to string us along. And "increasing their HD channel tier" could mean one QVC HD channel. I've been patient for almost a year now and I'm running out of it.

I just checked out the two websites- when you compare the two HD channels on the Dish and Direct websites, Dish looks pretty pathetic. New customers to satellite are going to look at the two, and especially compare the price, and go with Direct. This isn't looking good for Dish.


----------



## BNUMM

Dish will definitely be increasing their Local HD Channels in the next 2 months. As for the National Channels I am not so sure.


----------



## treiher

crookedcarrot said:


> I just checked out the two websites- when you compare the two HD channels on the Dish and Direct websites, Dish looks pretty pathetic. New customers to satellite are going to look at the two, and especially compare the price, and go with Direct. This isn't looking good for Dish.


You seem to forget one key detail . . . the Dish site also says they are the "Industry Leader in HD". So all those new subscribers will read that comment and choose Dish, right?

As for me, nothing new by May 1, and I am joining the masses who are leaving.


----------



## crookedcarrot

Ok here's another thing: I was being patient with Dish because Charlie said they're negotiating with these channels so they don't have to increase the price on us, and at first I thought that was reasonable. But minus the discount that will end for me next month, and after the 12 month special price Direct TV is offering, I'll only be paying $4 less on Dish!! I'll gladly pay $4 a month more for twice the HD channels that I watch. Dish has one more month to get their act together- after that my HD credit discount expires and I'm out!


----------



## Cappyxavs

the dish rep also said after 3 months D will want 15 per dvr access fees. and D will up the price dramaticaly after the initial few months. 

any one have any input?


----------



## crookedcarrot

treiher said:


> You seem to forget one key detail . . . the Dish site also says they are the "Industry Leader in HD". So all those new subscribers will read that comment and choose Dish, right?
> 
> As for me, nothing new by May 1, and I am joining the masses who are leaving.


I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm... Direct says "The best in HD programming" then below that it says "... bringing our total to 95". Dish's site says "But we have the Gallery Channel!"


----------



## crookedcarrot

Cappyxavs said:


> the dish rep also said after 3 months D will want 15 per dvr access fees. and D will up the price dramaticaly after the initial few months.
> 
> any one have any input?


I was on the phone with a D rep 10 minutes ago, and specifically asked about a DVR fee- first receiver was free, after that I think he said $7 or so... I only have one TV so I didn't listen past the "first receiver is free" part.


----------



## FriscoJohnny

D* DVR fee is $5.99 per month if it is not already included in the base package. The fee is one per account regardless of the number of DVRs activated.

The mirroring fee is $4.99 for each receiver on the account in excess of one (the first receiver does not have this charge).


----------



## HobbyTalk

Jestr40 said:


> This may be true but FYI, I have two friends that have "defected" from dish and D* was very generous to them with equiptment and install (length of contract,not so much, 2 yr.). BUT, as I have said before, to each there own, I am happy with D*, but DISH WILL have every channel in HD that D* does with time.


I agree that at some point they will all be the same. I was happy to wait. For me the point of changing is the need for a 2nd dish for local HD channels and they want to charge me to install that 2nd dish. I know some will say to wait to make sure that locals will be on 61.5 but indications are 99% that they will be. I also have LOS issues in that direction. I would be able to get 61.5 just fine but if the talked about "eastern arc" plans start happening in the next year or so, I'd have to drop E* anyways as I wouldn't be able to see the other sats.

To cancel my contract will cost $120 but they want to charge $60 to install the 2nd dish. So I'm really only losing $60 by changing now. Just figure if I'm gonna change, why wait, seems the deals are prety good right now. Should be able to find out more within a week for final numbers.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I know this is the no-hd-gripe thread, but I thought I'd post something positive...

I started a thread in another part of the forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1532829#post1532829

Signs of actual HD programming on TBSHD earlier tonight. Could be the silver lining in the cloud if TBS is actually going to start giving us some actual non-stretched HD content.

You've seen the "but I thought it was HD" cries before from folks who didn't know for sure, but I can say for sure... actual HD on TBS"HD"!

Now back to your regularly scheduled gripe...

More HD please!


----------



## rbonzer

I usually don't like to gripe, but like many others, its getting very disapointing. Watching all these new HD channels that I watch go live on other providers is starting to get to me.

The other thing that gets to me is the HD quality on some channels. I'd hate to see them add channels and reduce quality, but this isn't my problem! Add HD channels AND give them enough bandwidth! Heck, I'd almost be satisfied if they'd just add bandwidth to the SD channels. Maybe we could just get the these new HD channels downconverted to widescreen SD with enough bandwidth so there won't be mosquitoes or blocking.


----------



## phrelin

Two comments, then a rant.

1. I'm going to have to use our local DirecTV dealer for the install. Depending on what he says about the discounts, etc., I may order from DirecTV online. But it's going to take at least two dish placements because of redwood trees and I really don't want to go through the hassle I did with Dish contract installers. So I'll pay the local guy to handle the install.

2. If SciFi HD is not on tomorrow morning, Dish is going to get two carefully worded emails from me, one to investor relations and one to ceo.xxxx.

My emails will not be like the following rant:
:soapbox:

Yes, the new locals are significant to snagging new customers in competition with cable. But turning on the HD nationals as fast as technologically possible is the only strategy left in the satellite competition with DirecTV. The best hardware in the world is worthless if it doesn't bring in what customers want to watch.

It is a very bad strategy for Dish to screw with its loyal base, because that base is all you have but churn. I firmly believe that a significant percentage of Dish Network's loyal customers are tech geeks. (I happen to fall into that category along with falling into the other significant percentage of loyal customers - rural customers,)

A significant percentage of us geels are avid SciFi fans. Almost all avid SciFi fans will watch the final season of Battlestar Galactica.

Featuring Tricia Helfer on the last Charlie Chat when there is no known technological reason for not providing SciFiHD in my mind constituted an implied promise. The promise was that customers who have paid for HD would be viewing all of the last season of BSG on SciFi in HD. In my opinion, if I must watch _any_ of this last season in SD, I will be totally alienated from Dish because there is no reasonable excuse for Dish not making it available.

Of course this rant may be a waste as I may get up tomorrow morning to find SciFiHD on my guide. It could happen.....


----------



## James Long

Nicely put ... although what happens if you wake up in the morning, find the channels are not there, send off the emails and then see the channels added in the afternoon?

Will you take credit? 


I'm hoping that something will get turned on this Thursday ... even if it is only the new 6799 "HIDEF" channel ... if it is more than a fish tank. Hoping but not hopeful.


----------



## neowaxworks

another thing that gets me.. Dish is acting like locals are more important that the national HD channels...IMHO thats a HUGE mistake.. most people can get their locals via OTA, and in a Heck of lot better resolution/bandwidth..Noone, unless they have cable too, can get ANY national channel in HD OTA. Granted there are a few in fringe areas that can't get locals BUT, the locals they are adding are major cities where ANY one can...makes no sense to me...


----------



## Zinger

i read yesterday on dishnetwork.com that they will have game only content in HD for RSN's including 431HD. I am particularly interested in FOXOH HD and STOHD which according to dishnetwork.com are 425HD and 431HD respectively. I turned on the tv lastnight to watch the Indians play and there was no HD on 431. On sportstimeohio.com it claims that STOHD is channel 381 which isn't even in my guide. Am I wrong to assume that I will be seeing any Indians game in HD in the near future? If so, what is the "game only" content that dishnetwork claims to have on RSN's?


----------



## bobkeenan

A work buddy of mine who subscribes to Comcast came up to me, grinning, and told me that they just had Scifi added to their HD list.... AAAGGGGHH!

I am now researching if it makes sense to go back to Comcast, my internet provider and previous (2 yrs ago) cable provider. 

I don't know how long I will be able to take of my friend saying things like... " Oh Wow, did you see Battlestar Galactica HD last night...... oh sorry... you don't have that do you"


----------



## zer0cool

And I can get their "Premium", 265 channel service with all their HD programming for $94.94 a month. This will increase after the Starz/Showtime 3-month promotion to $117.94, and after the first year, the price will increase to $135.94.
This includes 2 HD-DVR's and one standard receiver.

I'm currently paying Dish $139.47 monthly for the "Dish Hd Ultimate" package with One HD-DVR (operating 2 TV's) and one standard receiver.

As much as I love being able to record to my 622 and watch in either the den or bedroom, I could get used to having two seperate DVR's. I need to look a little more closer at DirecTV's DVR functionality.

I feel like I've been patient and a loyal Dish customer, mainly due to the 622's greatness (though my 921 was never as buggy as most people's), but Dish's continued lack of SciFi-HD, combined with "Friday Night Lights" going to DirecTV, may just be enough to make me switch.


----------



## GrayCalx

phrelin said:


> Two comments, then a rant.
> 
> Featuring Tricia Helfer on the last Charlie Chat when there is no known technological reason for not providing SciFiHD in my mind constituted an implied promise. The promise was that customers who have paid for HD would be viewing all of the last season of BSG on SciFi in HD. In my opinion, if I must watch _any_ of this last season in SD, I will be totally alienated from Dish because there is no reasonable excuse for Dish not making it available.


Again I get to read your post twice. Fantastic.

Quick note on your comment here though. And before I start I must say I'm frustrated as well. I've been sending emails. I've been making calls... I'm upset as well. This is the last battlestar season, we know the channel is available in HD, so they should be making it work... BUT

You said "there is no known technical reason." Okay, but what about contractual? Its very possible DirecTV paid SciFi for exclusivity past the season premier. Or maybe they're asking an outrageous fee from Dish. We have no idea of the actual details like that.

And back to the technical reasons, does anyone on this board work for Dish in a technical capacity? We have no idea whats going on back there... maybe there is a reason they can't get SciFi to work right now. A satellite issue, a bandwidth issues a mapping issue I have no idea... but I'm just saying its possible. Although I have to admit even I don't believe this, it must be contractual in my mind.

Finally, there was no "implied promise" by having her on the last Charlie Chat. Look I agree that when i saw her there I got excited, thinking why would they have her on if they weren't going to give us Battlestar in HD, but there was no implied promise whatsoever, and to try to take some kind of moral high road by saying that that promise they never made was broken is just childish.

Finally to a lot of the other upset subscribers here; I don't think Dish is sitting there oblivious to our complaints or willfully neglecting them. I'm sure they realize they'll lose customers by not getting us more channels. Why wouldn't they want to keep us happy and give us the channels... obviously there is some other reason thats holding them back.

If you want to jump ship for more channels (which Dish will eventually have, but who knows in how long) I can't blame you whatsoever. I just can't give up the 622 and 722. I've tried every other receiver out there from cox to comcast to fios to directv and I just can't give up dish's.


----------



## zer0cool

i just hope this doesn't turn into a "Betamax / VHS" type of thing, where the technologically superior Dish-DVR becomes obsolete because the masses flock to the content of DirecTV and their inferior DVR.


----------



## AZDAD

Zinger said:


> i read yesterday on dishnetwork.com that they will have game only content in HD for RSN's including 431HD. I am particularly interested in FOXOH HD and STOHD which according to dishnetwork.com are 425HD and 431HD respectively. I turned on the tv lastnight to watch the Indians play and there was no HD on 431. On sportstimeohio.com it claims that STOHD is channel 381 which isn't even in my guide. Am I wrong to assume that I will be seeing any Indians game in HD in the near future? If so, what is the "game only" content that dishnetwork claims to have on RSN's?


I did the same thing yesterday. I visited the dish website and clicked on hdsports and saw that FSNAZ was showing channel 415HD. I was really excited but when I checked my guide all I'm getting is FSNAZ on channel 415 standard (no HD channel).  If your web site is saying one thing, yet it is not delivering on the goods.................:nono:


----------



## phrelin

GrayCalx said:


> Again I get to read your post twice. Fantastic.
> 
> Quick note on your comment here though. And before I start I must say I'm frustrated as well. I've been sending emails. I've been making calls... I'm upset as well. This is the last battlestar season, we know the channel is available in HD, so they should be making it work... BUT
> 
> You said "there is no known technical reason." Okay, but what about contractual? Its very possible DirecTV paid SciFi for exclusivity past the season premier. Or maybe they're asking an outrageous fee from Dish. We have no idea of the actual details like that.
> 
> And back to the technical reasons, does anyone on this board work for Dish in a technical capacity? We have no idea whats going on back there... maybe there is a reason they can't get SciFi to work right now. A satellite issue, a bandwidth issues a mapping issue I have no idea... but I'm just saying its possible. Although I have to admit even I don't believe this, it must be contractual in my mind.
> 
> Finally, there was no "implied promise" by having her on the last Charlie Chat. Look I agree that when i saw her there I got excited, thinking why would they have her on if they weren't going to give us Battlestar in HD, but there was no implied promise whatsoever, and to try to take some kind of moral high road by saying that that promise they never made was broken is just childish.
> 
> Finally to a lot of the other upset subscribers here; I don't think Dish is sitting there oblivious to our complaints or willfully neglecting them. I'm sure they realize they'll lose customers by not getting us more channels. Why wouldn't they want to keep us happy and give us the channels... obviously there is some other reason thats holding them back.
> 
> If you want to jump ship for more channels (which Dish will eventually have, but who knows in how long) I can't blame you whatsoever. I just can't give up the 622 and 722. I've tried every other receiver out there from cox to comcast to fios to directv and I just can't give up dish's.


Keep in mind that I was careful to write "in my mind" and "in my opinion." I may be deluded, but it doesn't mean having Helfer on was anything but dumb, dumb, dumb, customer relations (and what else is a Charlie Chat for) OR carefully thought out to mislead subscribers.

And I believe what I said in an earlier post:


phrelin said:


> It's sad, because no SciFiHD this week cannot be a tech issue, just a contract issue.


And as I said, I'm not intending to give up my 722, just reducing Charlie's total revenue a bit:


phrelin said:


> All I said was "tomorrow morning I go visit the local DirecTV dealer."
> 
> What I was looking at is to drop down to HD-only. I'm currently paying $49.98 Dish DVR Advantage with the top 200 and $20.00 for HD Ultimate totalling $69.98. I'm probably confused about this, but I think I'd be paying $29.98 with the HD only, saving $40. Then I'd drop my two 508s saving $10. So saving $50.
> 
> As I calculate it on the DirecTV web site, I can get the following package for a year:
> CHOICE $52.99
> DIRECTV DVR Service $5.99
> HD Access $9.99
> Lease Fee $4.99
> Total Monthly Bill: $73.96
> Online Redemption -$18.00
> Final Monthly Total: $55.96
> 
> That would be a net increase $5.96 a month. Plus I'd be paying a setup fee to DirecTV and a downgrade fee to Dish.
> 
> But I'd be getting all the HD nationals I want. And I'd still be able to record movies and put them on the 722's EHD I've designated "Movies."
> 
> And I'd avoid a contract buyout cost.
> 
> I can't figure out any other way of getting what I want. So if SciFi HD doesn't come on by tomorrow morning I go visit the local DirecTV dealer.


----------



## Ron Barry

zer0cool said:


> i just hope this doesn't turn into a "Betamax / VHS" type of thing, where the technologically superior Dish-DVR becomes obsolete because the masses flock to the content of DirecTV and their inferior DVR.


Ok.. I am going to try and put this in perspective as I see it. First off, we are but a small percentage of any customer base. And of that percentage, an even smaller percentage that watch daily JohnH's info, scanning website looking for HD channel news, and basing our DBS selections on who has what when.

Yes we are a vocal bunch and yes we do have a sphere of influence that can result in getting people to change providers. However, the majority of subs will not do the channel comparision thing when moving to HD. They will just order HD from their current provider and go from there. When my Brother-in-law decided to get HD, he did not go out and compare providers... He just ordered if from his Cable company. This is obviously the easiest way to entry and it is the way the majority of subs will go.

Sure... Some subs will see things in HD and wonder why they can't get it. Perhaps they will find out why and it might make them switch. Some will switch and I am sure you will get a percentage of big SciFi fans that can't wait any longer and jump. Also, people looking for a content provider and what HD will see the difference and will make a decision to go with D* based on that and seeing D* ADs. That is what advertising is about and D* is doing an excellent job in that respect.

Bottom line is ... the masses don't do the level of comparison we do... switching providers is inconvient and for most T.V. is T.V. and expanded HD coverage is usually not enough to get someone to go through the pain.

I am sure some of you are saying.. It is not painful. Well for us perhaps not, but definitely easier to call your current provider and have a box swapped vs. having to swap out both the box, switches, and the Dish stuff and learn a new EPG etc. Yes it is done all the time, but my guess is when people make this switch there are other factors in play.

Don't get me wrong... I welcome more "HD" and understand the need for more to the point of making a switch... but I definitely would not go as far as declaring that the masses are flocking or will soon be flocking to D* because I don't think this is the case. Yes Dish will take a hit because they are behind in HD choices, but I am just don't see this becoming the end of Dish world.

Well that is my 2cents on More HD Gripe...


----------



## phrelin

Ron, I agree with everything you are saying except that I believe we geeks (a group not limited to active members here) are a meaningful percentage of Dish's stable customer base, that we are an even larger percentage of Dish's HD customer base, and that a sizeable percentage of we Dish customer geeks are going to watch BSG in SD and be alienated when we talk to other geeks who see it in HD. I hope that last company Charlie bought for a bundle will offset the 5-year drift of his stable customer base. Because keeping your profit margin on declining revenue is stupid business policy.


----------



## booger

There is no doubt that HD is the buzz word these days and HD TV plus content go hand in hand. When one purchases an HD TV or decides it's time to finally get HD programming for the HD set they've had for a while several things happen and they happen more often now than ever IMO.

1. They go to BB or a some retail store and ask which provider has the most HD or best HD selection.

2. Ask the family/friend geek that is possibly 'in the know' who to switch to.

3. Research HD content, pricing, etc themselves.

4. Word of mouth.

Going on experience, I feel the provider with the most HD programming will ultimately win. They can choose any of the 4 ways above and more times than not, more HD wins. This will continue to worsen has HD TV prices fall. 

The race is on, there will be two winners at the end when both have about the same amount of HD content (Dish and Direct). The problem is the race itself is going to hurt most providers who have less HD programming than a provider that has more.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## TBoneit

BSG? I watched the first couple of episodes of the original and stopped watching. I didn't even botehr with the new one. First reason was the old one. Second reason is that it is on the Sci-Fi channel.

Nothing to do with HD or SD. I watch more SD than HD many days.


----------



## fredp

TBoneit said:


> BSG? I watched the first couple of episodes of the original and stopped watching. I didn't even botehr with the new one. First reason was the old one.


:lol:  I only tuned in just the other day just to see what all the hoopla was about needing this in HD. When I saw Stands with a Fist as the pres I said zzzzzzzzz


----------



## jackienopay

fredp said:


> :lol: I only tuned in just the other day just to see what all the hoopla was about needing this in HD. When I saw Stands with a Fist as the pres I said zzzzzzzzz


Wait until you see Lt. Martin Castillo, Miami Vice, as the commander.


----------



## James Long

Hey, this isn't the BSG Sucks gripe thread!

:backtotop


----------



## GrayCalx

phrelin said:


> I may be deluded, but it doesn't mean having Helfer on was anything but dumb, dumb, dumb, customer relations (and what else is a Charlie Chat for)


I agree with you there. If he wasn't planning on putting it HD-sci-fi live why have her on the chat. I totally agree. I just don't think it was malicious... like you say just stupid.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Well after some extensive research into the world of D i came up with the following:
>HR20/21: the thread here as well as others is riddled with current complaints which still match the original cnet review. 

>Input from friends who have or had D state that D would go out when it started drizzling and durring a steady rain they could count on a day with no tv. the ones who switched to E have experienced 99% up time and love the service and customer relationship when compared to D. most of the time when i asked for input about D because i was thinking of switching i was met with comments like "you want to think really hard before doing this because"....
i had also read postings of weather related complaints on threads here and elsewhere while not a huge complaint there is still concern as tight now E works for me 99.5% of the time. 
>last my 622 backfeed accounts for several potential rooms that would eliminate several potential boxes. sometimes i will take my 19" LCD out on the Deck and the backfeed option makes this easy! i simply backfeed it to the main distributor and all lines that do not have sat are active for use. 

so saturday i will have two new 612 units and all my hd tvs will have source hd access and all the rest of my sd tvs will have access to the hd tier at sd.


----------



## nsps

I never got into BSG, but it quite clearly has a huge cult following and is a main reason for the Sci-Fi Channel's success. Dish must be aware of this. Me, I just want commercial-free, unedited movies, and want MGM HD!


----------



## Cappyxavs

i'm not really concerned. i am a bSG fan however later the seasons episodes will more than likely appear on hd-net any way and if they do not sd is fine. 

did they finish the series? i had heard the writers strike was tossing a wrench into the number of ending episodes they would actually have.


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> i'm not really concerned. i am a bSG fan however later the seasons episodes will more than likely appear on hd-net any way and if they do not sd is fine.
> 
> did they finish the series? i had heard the writers strike was tossing a wrench into the number of ending episodes they would actually have.


Most fans would say, why should they be forced, because of dish, to watch it in SD or wait and get spoiled because spoilers will be posted everywhere...
There is no reason Dish can't have the channel up...


----------



## James Long

neowaxworks said:


> There is no reason Dish can't have the channel up...


None that WE know of ...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

neowaxworks said:


> Most fans would say, why should they be forced, because of dish, to watch it in SD or wait and get spoiled because spoilers will be posted everywhere...
> There is no reason Dish can't have the channel up...


By the same token... there's no reason for people to keep complaining about Dish not having it. Also no reason for you not to switch to DirecTV.



Meanwhile, there could be any number of reasons that we are not privvy to, including contract issues, DirecTV exclusivity agreements, bandwidth, etc. etc. Just because we don't know the reason, doesn't mean there isn't one.

Also, as the negative folks like to post... maybe Charlie doesn't care, in which case IF he doesn't then those folk who are already convinced that Charlie is the Anti-Christ should go ahead over to DirecTV.

Me, however, I'll be staying and watching lots of other stuff until SciFiHD comes on board.


----------



## neowaxworks

James Long said:


> None that WE know of ...


no , no reason... If my local Miniscule cable company can supply it, Dish should not have any issue...they've had the slots since last year, it's not a bandwidth issue since the uplinked 5 HD channels since and have test channels of Nick(SD upconvert) and HBO(SD upconvert) as well as the test grid slate... thats a total of 10 possible HD channel slots that COULD be active...
Dish carries the SD sci-fi and USA channels, so contractually, there should be no issues... if NBC was doing all or none, you wouldn't have the SD versions...
so No there is no reasonable reason...
I don't buy the Dtv exclusive rights argument either..if that were the case Dtv would be all over it advertising that Dtv was the ONLY Sat company that has them...


----------



## klegg

neowaxworks said:


> no , no reason... If my local Miniscule cable company can supply it, Dish should not have any issue...they've had the slots since last year, it's not a bandwidth issue since the uplinked 5 HD channels since and have test channels of Nick(SD upconvert) and HBO(SD upconvert) as well as the test grid slate... thats a total of 10 possible HD channel slots that COULD be active...
> Dish carries the SD sci-fi and USA channels, so contractually, there should be no issues... if NBC was doing all or none, you wouldn't have the SD versions...
> so No there is no reasonable reason...
> I don't buy the Dtv exclusive rights argument either..if that were the case Dtv would be all over it advertising that Dtv was the ONLY Sat company that has them...


Maybe it's not that big of a deal. Maybe the viewership is relatively small...


----------



## BNUMM

Cappyxavs said:


> Well after some extensive research into the world of D i came up with the following:
> >HR20/21: the thread here as well as others is riddled with current complaints which still match the original cnet review.
> 
> >Input from friends who have or had D state that D would go out when it started drizzling and durring a steady rain they could count on a day with no tv. the ones who switched to E have experienced 99% up time and love the service and customer relationship when compared to D. most of the time when i asked for input about D because i was thinking of switching i was met with comments like "you want to think really hard before doing this because"....
> i had also read postings of weather related complaints on threads here and elsewhere while not a huge complaint there is still concern as tight now E works for me 99.5% of the time.
> >last my 622 backfeed accounts for several potential rooms that would eliminate several potential boxes. sometimes i will take my 19" LCD out on the Deck and the backfeed option makes this easy! i simply backfeed it to the main distributor and all lines that do not have sat are active for use.
> 
> so saturday i will have two new 612 units and all my hd tvs will have source hd access and all the rest of my sd tvs will have access to the hd tier at sd.


I work on both DirecTv and DishNetwork ( mostly DishNetwork ). The frequent loss of signal on either provider is due to a poor installation. I have had both and neither is better than the other.


----------



## braven

BNUMM said:


> I work on both DirecTv and DishNetwork ( mostly DishNetwork ). The frequent loss of signal on either provider is due to a poor installation. I have had both and neither is better than the other.


For the record.

I have had both as well and I concur. My current Directv setup is no worse or no better than the E* setup I had. I guess they were both installed correctly. It takes an act of God type storm to affect my Directv signal. Fact.


----------



## Tom Robertson

neowaxworks said:


> no , no reason... If my local Miniscule cable company can supply it, Dish should not have any issue...they've had the slots since last year, it's not a bandwidth issue since the uplinked 5 HD channels since and have test channels of Nick(SD upconvert) and HBO(SD upconvert) as well as the test grid slate... thats a total of 10 possible HD channel slots that COULD be active...
> Dish carries the SD sci-fi and USA channels, so contractually, there should be no issues... if NBC was doing all or none, you wouldn't have the SD versions...
> so No there is no reasonable reason...
> I don't buy the Dtv exclusive rights argument either..if that were the case Dtv would be all over it advertising that Dtv was the ONLY Sat company that has them...


I do not know much about the Dish network capacity, so I believe James and his posts that more capacity is still available for HD. As well as Dish's own statements. So won't even address that aspect.

There are many other reasons why Dish might not have Channel Three Letter Acronym (of your choice) operational:
1) Contract. Who knows if Sci-fi and USA's current contracts permit, require, or otherwise is enabled for Dish to carry? I don't. 
2) Other contracts. What if Dish is contractually obligated to carry other HD content that would fill up their slots? (Perhaps unlikely in this case, but can happen.)
3) Quality. If the providers aren't providing a channel to Dish meeting either party's quality requirements, things will be delayed.
4) Data feed. A close cousin to quality, but if the provider can't send the feed in a suitable format for Dish that can be a problem. Or if the data path isn't hooked up yet (sometimes getting fibre takes a lot longer than we'd like.)
5) Equipment issues on either side. The interoperability of HD equipment is very much not there yet. Lots of equipment doesn't place nice with other equipment yet.

And there are some lesser likely ones that I hope should never occur. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## neowaxworks

Tom Robertson said:


> I do not know much about the Dish network capacity, so I believe James and his posts that more capacity is still available for HD. As well as Dish's own statements. So won't even address that aspect.
> 
> There are many other reasons why Dish might not have Channel Three Letter Acronym (of your choice) operational:
> 1) Contract. Who knows if Sci-fi and USA's current contracts permit, require, or otherwise is enabled for Dish to carry? I don't.
> 2) Other contracts. What if Dish is contractually obligated to carry other HD content that would fill up their slots? (Perhaps unlikely in this case, but can happen.)
> 3) Quality. If the providers aren't providing a channel to Dish meeting either party's quality requirements, things will be delayed.
> 4) Data feed. A close cousin to quality, but if the provider can't send the feed in a suitable format for Dish that can be a problem. Or if the data path isn't hooked up yet (sometimes getting fibre takes a lot longer than we'd like.)
> 5) Equipment issues on either side. The interoperability of HD equipment is very much not there yet. Lots of equipment doesn't place nice with other equipment yet.
> 
> And there are some lesser likely ones that I hope should never occur.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


 I would thinkthat ANY of those would make Dish VERY Unprofessional...just MO


----------



## Tom Robertson

neowaxworks said:


> I would thinkthat ANY of those would make Dish VERY Unprofessional...just MO


Why? What if they are not the fault but rather the provider is? Or the fibre provider? The equipment manufacturer? Why are you singling Dish Network out? That doesn't seem quite right, in my opinion. Unless there is some documentation eliminating all the other possible parties that I'm unaware of...

There are often many sides to a high level story such as "why isn't there a particular channel".

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## neowaxworks

Tom Robertson said:


> Why? What if they are not the fault but rather the provider is? Or the fibre provider? The equipment manufacturer? Why are you singling Dish Network out? That doesn't seem quite right, in my opinion. Unless there is some documentation eliminating all the other possible parties that I'm unaware of...
> 
> There are often many sides to a high level story such as "why isn't there a particular channel".
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


 Oh?? no contractually issue with Dtv or cable companies
.. no Fiber issue with Dtv or cable companies...
Your agurment would hold water if it were not for the fact that no one else is having issues providing...
Dish is SUPPOSE to be a majopr content provider...it's there business to provide. Would be TERRIBLY unprofessional to not be competent at your profession


----------



## booger

neowaxworks said:


> Oh?? no contractually issue with Dtv or cable companies
> .. no Fiber issue with Dtv or cable companies...
> Your agurment would hold water if it were not for the fact that no one else is having issues providing...
> Dish is SUPPOSE to be a majopr content provider...it's there business to provide. Would be TERRIBLY unprofessional to not be competent at your profession


Especially when Dish claims to be the 'Industry Leader in HD' when clearly they are not.


----------



## Tom Robertson

neowaxworks said:


> Oh?? no contractually issue with Dtv or cable companies
> .. no Fiber issue with Dtv or cable companies...
> Your agurment would hold water if it were not for the fact that no one else is having issues providing...
> Dish is SUPPOSE to be a majopr content provider...it's there business to provide. Would be TERRIBLY unprofessional to not be competent at your profession


Um... All I can say is how do you think I know these are all possible problems...

And lastly DIRECTV does somethings differently than cable companies and Dish. They are attracting a different market segment.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## neowaxworks

Tom Robertson said:


> Um... All I can say is how do you think I know these are all possible problems...
> 
> And lastly DIRECTV does somethings differently than cable companies and Dish. They are attracting a different market segment.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


 I didn't say they weren't possible.. but IMHO.. It is unprofessional to ALLOW any of them to happen...
Take Fiber for instance... Thats Dish's livelyhood... If they do not even have enough clout to get it down, whats that say about them as a company?
Same thing for equipment.. Have an Issue, have the correct item overnighted and corrected the NEXT day...
Dtv lock you out, tell people that.. don't leave people sitting thinking you are going to turn X channel on, even goign so far as to lead them on by including a cast member from said X channels most popular show talk about said show in HD...
In my and most reasonable peoples opinion, it is Dish dropping the ball...


----------



## nsps

neowaxworks said:


> Dish carries the SD sci-fi and USA channels, so contractually, there should be no issues... if NBC was doing all or none, you wouldn't have the SD versions...
> so No there is no reasonable reason...


Dish gets ABC's affiliate in SD, but not HD here in SLC due to contractual issues. Having the right to broadcast Sci-Fi doesn't automatically mean you have the right to Sci-Fi HD. I think it's considered a different channel.

I don't know if this is the case or not. Even if it is, it reflects poorly on Dish's planning that they allowed D* Satellite exclusivity.


----------



## James Long

Some things are beyond one's control. They are doing what they can. If you believe that DISH is just sitting there with HD that can be added and are simply refusing to add it for "no reason" I, in my opinion, believe you are crazy.

"No HD" is the "No DLB" of DISH. DirecTV somehow released their new DVR+ HR20 without what some subscribers would consider a key feature (dual live buffers). Why? After thousands of votes and posts the conclusion is the same. DirecTV is not releasing the why on their "No DLB". DISH is not releasing the why on their "No HD" issue.

That's the way it is ... unfortunately the answers are not always forthcoming. Sometimes companies simply don't want to tell us the answer.

Our choice? Live with it ... find another company that doesn't give us all the answers ... cancel all TV service and read a book ... Plenty of options. None that force any company to give an answer.

DLB will come when it comes ... so will new HD. Patience is a virtue ... possess it!!!


----------



## neowaxworks

James Long said:


> Some things are beyond one's control. They are doing what they can. If you believe that DISH is just sitting there with HD that can be added and are simply refusing to add it for "no reason" I, in my opinion, believe you are crazy.
> 
> "No HD" is the "No DLB" of DISH. DirecTV somehow released their new DVR+ HR20 without what some subscribers would consider a key feature (dual live buffers). Why? After thousands of votes and posts the conclusion is the same. DirecTV is not releasing the why on their "No DLB". DISH is not releasing the why on their "No HD" issue.
> 
> That's the way it is ... unfortunately the answers are not always forthcoming. Sometimes companies simply don't want to tell us the answer.
> 
> Our choice? Live with it ... find another company that doesn't give us all the answers ... cancel all TV service and read a book ... Plenty of options. None that force any company to give an answer.
> 
> DLB will come when it comes ... so will new HD. Patience is a virtue ... possess it!!!


Patience??

Patience is waitng a month... it's now been what 5-6 months.....with the same "soon" be patient answer...
Telling people to be patient after thay have waited, waited and waited some more is getting to be a little on the ludicrous side.....Dish locks you into a contract that keeps a lot of people stuck, then fails to deliver on the channels they want to watch, instead choosing to focus onlil markets that affect a very small percentage of subs, that most likely already get locals via OTA.. ...when you repeatedly see the company that has you stuck in a contract, make bad decision after bad decision..then fail to deliver channels that you want to see... why should you remain patient? and since they have you stuck in a contract, why sho0uld you not be vocal about being disatisfied with the path they are taking, since that is the only value you are getting from the money you are paying....


----------



## jandar

I have priced out a new package with DirecTV since I have lost patience with Dish.

I have been teased about new HD since last fall and yet see none.

I was teased about have my local channels in HD 2 years ago, still nothing for this 49th ranked DMA.

Patience is something that I can show for a while, not forever.

DirecTV is offering 18$ off each package for a year, thats 216$. If you have less than 16 months on your contract, it will balance out in your favor.


Dish has until 10PM tonight to get SciFI HD up or I am gone. Thats how far my patience has been stretched.


----------



## lukin4u

neowaxworks said:


> Patience??
> 
> Patience is waitng a month... it's now been what 5-6 months.....with the same "soon" be patient answer...
> Telling people to be patient after thay have waited, waited and waited some more is getting to be a little on the ludicrous side.....Dish locks you into a contract that keeps a lot of people stuck, then fails to deliver on the channels they want to watch, instead choosing to focus onlil markets that affect a very small percentage of subs, that most likely already get locals via OTA.. ...when you repeatedly see the company that has you stuck in a contract, make bad decision after bad decision..then fail to deliver channels that you want to see... why should you remain patient? and since they have you stuck in a contract, why sho0uld you not be vocal about being disatisfied with the path they are taking, since that is the only value you are getting from the money you are paying....


wow this thread has been busy

and YOU go NEO

i could not have said it better myself
ive been staying as calm as i can be through this dry spell
but it is really pissing me off internaly
my friends think im nuts 
but for the price we are paying compared to D, i expect more
and it aint happenin
but i got 6 months left soo.....


----------



## James Long

Call 888-777-2454 or visit http://www.directv.com/ to subscribe.

Enjoy the two year contract especially the second year ... after the price expires and the 2009 rate increase.

Personally ... I'm getting what I paid for. I've had DISH HD since February of 2006 ... plenty of channels have been added since then and now they are testing MY market's locals. Life is reasonably good.

I believe most people with complaints can look to themselves for someone to blame. The ONLY mention of Sci-Fi HD was a logo flash on the last Charlie Chat and the comment: "Between now and the summer we hope to have most of these channels up there." All promises of any particular channel being up by any particular date is the speculation of the reader - not a promise made by DISH.

Despite all the warnings not to get their hopes up they did ... and they set themselves up for the fall. A shame really.


----------



## lukin4u

edit


----------



## neowaxworks

I'll just say, Dish LEAD people to that speculation...that , IMHO, was the intent..they wanted people to think it so they wouldnt' jump ship...Locals?? Blah I get that via rabit ears..., OTher than a SMALL handfull of channels, what value is Dish HD??? they certainly do not carry the top cable channels...Voom is a very small Niche market of people that pay for it cause it is 24/7... Which is irrelevent.. The upconverted SD on hd channels is still better picture quality than Dish SD channels. And I won't even get into the false advertising they do to get you to sign up on the phone...

I see a huge difference.. you are satisfied with mediocrity in the channel line up, most others are not...As for switching to Dtv... again you don't acknowledge that fact that Dish has you STUCK in a contract that costs you a boat load to get out of...a contract that they lie to you to get you in...... Dtv may cost a little more, but guess what, they actually HAVE national HD channels that people actually WANT...and they get them in a timely mannor...


I don't mean this disrespectfully... but you are spewing the typical corprate line... turn it around and blame the customer...defend the company...thats what big corps do when they crap on customers but dont' want the blame...


----------



## phrelin

One final passing thought about the failure to turn on SciFi. There was some speculation here, which I cannot locate, that perhaps DirecTV may have negotiated some special exclusive. From the Friday, March 28, Sacramento Bee:


> Comcast announced Thursday the addition of nine high-definition channels to its cable lineup....
> 
> For Sacramento cable customers, the additions to the HD lineup are Discovery Channel, HGTV, USA, Food Network, Sci-Fi, TLC, ABC Family, Disney Channel and Discovery Science.
> 
> Comcast customers in Davis, Roseville and Placerville are adding a slightly different line- up....
> 
> ...The new HD channels will begin Monday, with the exception of ABC Family, Disney and Discovery Science, which will launch on April 8.


 So basically my ISP cable company and DirecTV could arrange to provide their customers with Sci-Fi in time for BSG. And obviously, there were no exclusives on SciFiHD for DirecTV.

Of course, you noted that in addition to SciFiHD both Dish competitors are now offering HD feeds for Disney, USA, and ABC Family - other cable channels that have general audience new programming that gets high Nielsens. So now, in terms of appealing to the typical family, DishHD starts falling behind not only DirecTV but cable.

Since I know SciFiHD (and USAHD) has been uplinked for months, I am really angry because I can't think of one believable excuse that could be offered. Not one! And as I'm watching the BSG season premier in SD tomorrow, I will be contemplating some kind of shareholders uproar about the direction management is going.


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## nsps

Comcast is a cable provider. D* and E* are satellite providers. If DirecTV has a time frame with satellite exclusivity, then it doesn't affect Comcast. A station would be much more likely to sign one of these contracts than one that gives D* complete exclusivity.

Like I said, I don't know if there is a contract or not, and I don't think it lets Dish off the hook. But we simply don't know what kind of contractual agreements are in place.


----------



## neowaxworks

nsps said:


> Comcast is a cable provider. D* and E* are satellite providers. If DirecTV has a time frame with satellite exclusivity, then it doesn't affect Comcast. A station would be much more likely to sign one of these contracts than one that gives D* complete exclusivity.
> 
> Like I said, I don't know if there is a contract or not, and I don't think it lets Dish off the hook. But we simply don't know what kind of contractual agreements are in place.


If it was contractual.. Dish would know.. so how hard is it to say that very thing?? They know WHEN they will be allowed to carry it, so why not make that announcment that Sci-fi/USA will begin on X date??

THAT people can understand.. but if it is contractual in that sense, saying nothign is only goign to alienate more people...The fact that they dont' say that tells me that is is NOT a contractual issue...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

neowaxworks said:


> Oh?? no contractually issue with Dtv or cable companies
> .. no Fiber issue with Dtv or cable companies...
> Your agurment would hold water if it were not for the fact that no one else is having issues providing...
> Dish is SUPPOSE to be a majopr content provider...it's there business to provide. Would be TERRIBLY unprofessional to not be competent at your profession


Jumping in here...

Last year one of our local stations (WRAL and WRAZ) had a fiber line cut (dug up by some construction worker who probably had his head handed to him later). This meant people who watched OTA were fine, but Time Warner cable customers didn't get the channel. Dish didn't lose the channel, nor presumably did DirecTV.

So... above is a prime example of how a technical problem could effect one provider and not all. IF SciFiHD/USAHD are provided via fiber then there could be a problem on Universal/NBC end that we don't know about.

I'm NOT saying there is, because I have no knowledge of such... but to dismiss the possibility unless you have proof that there absolutely isn't doesn't make sense.

Again, there are lots of reasons why Dish may or may not have a particular channel... and it's fine to gripe to some extent (especially in the gripe thread) but the way some folks get carried away, as if their life depended upon it... well, I can't for the life of me figure out why those folks haven't switched already. I mean, if it were life or death to get BSG in HD by tomorrow then switch already and be done with it.


----------



## James Long

neowaxworks said:


> ... you don't acknowledge that fact that Dish has you STUCK in a contract that costs you a boat load to get out of ...


They don't. Read what you are replying to ... I got DishHD in February of 2006. No commitment remains. There is no such "fact" that I'm stuck in a contract. Just your overactive imagination.



neowaxworks said:


> If it was contractual.. Dish would know.. so how hard is it to say that very thing?? They know WHEN they will be allowed to carry it, so why not make that announcment that Sci-fi/USA will begin on X date??


Perhaps it's contractual that they can't announce the when. 

The point is that _there is a reason_ that the channels have not been activated ... something beyond a desire to tick you off. If DISH doesn't want to share that secret there is nothing much WE can do about it.


----------



## jimborst

HDMe said:


> but the way some folks get carried away, as if their life depended upon it... well, I can't for the life of me figure out why those folks haven't switched already.


+1


----------



## zer0cool

James Long said:


> Call 888-777-2454 or visit http://www.directv.com/ to subscribe.
> 
> Enjoy the two year contract especially the second year ... after the price expires and the 2009 rate increase.
> 
> Personally ... I'm getting what I paid for. I've had DISH HD since February of 2006 ... plenty of channels have been added since then and now they are testing MY market's locals. Life is reasonably good.
> 
> I believe most people with complaints can look to themselves for someone to blame. The ONLY mention of Sci-Fi HD was a logo flash on the last Charlie Chat and the comment: "Between now and the summer we hope to have most of these channels up there." All promises of any particular channel being up by any particular date is the speculation of the reader - not a promise made by DISH.
> 
> Despite all the warnings not to get their hopes up they did ... and they set themselves up for the fall. A shame really.


James, I'm not blaming Dish for breaking any promise they made to me or anyone else. I'm also not blaming myself for my dissatisfaction. I am not responsible for Dish's continued failure to add any new signifigant HD programming. 
Again, it doesn't come down to any feeling of being "lied to" by Dish. It comes down to would I rather watch my favorite dramatic series in HD, or watch runway models walk the catwalk in HD? Would I rather watch new series, or repeats of two horror movies?
Just as Dish promised me nothing, I promised them nothing beyond my 2-year agreement.
do i blame dish for letting me down? NO. Am I disappointed with the current lack of new HD, and no timeline for adding any? Yes. I suppose I can blame myself for not making the switch to direcTV earlier.


----------



## projectorguru

zer0cool said:


> James, I'm not blaming Dish for breaking any promise they made to me or anyone else. I'm also not blaming myself for my dissatisfaction. I am not responsible for Dish's continued failure to add any new signifigant HD programming.
> Again, it doesn't come down to any feeling of being "lied to" by Dish. It comes down to would I rather watch my favorite dramatic series in HD, or watch runway models walk the catwalk in HD? Would I rather watch new series, or repeats of two horror movies?
> Just as Dish promised me nothing, I promised them nothing beyond my 2-year agreement.
> do i blame dish for letting me down? NO. Am I disappointed with the current lack of new HD, and no timeline for adding any? Yes. I suppose I can blame myself for not making the switch to direcTV earlier.


Were you this upset 3 years ago with the lack of HD too? At what point does the whining stop, when all channels are HD, then it will be, why isn't Speed in 1080P and CNN is? If ya don't like it, go elesewhere, i did, and came back, so now instead of griping, I'll keep hopin, and will mostly spend time with my kids playin in the yard, and before I know it, they will be old enough that they won't want to do that anymore, and then I'll sit down and relax and enjoy some 200 channels in full HD


----------



## TulsaOK

neowaxworks said:


> ... again you don't acknowledge that fact that Dish has you STUCK in a contract that costs you a boat load to get out of...


Do you understand how the commitment works? It doesn't require you to pay your entire monthly bill multiplied by the number of months left on your commitment. $13 times the number of months left. That's usually not more than a couple of months of a regular bill, unless you're bailing after a handful of months in which case you shouldn't have agreed to the commitment in the first place. 
You must have a small boat; a kayak perhaps?


----------



## Jersey Girl

projectorguru said:


> Were you this upset 3 years ago with the lack of HD too? At what point does the whining stop, when all channels are HD, then it will be, why isn't Speed in 1080P and CNN is? If ya don't like it, go elesewhere, i did, and came back, so now instead of griping, I'll keep hopin, and will mostly spend time with my kids playin in the yard, and before I know it, they will be old enough that they won't want to do that anymore, and then I'll sit down and relax and enjoy some 200 channels in full HD


Perhaps he doesn't have kids, or his kids are grown, and he's just sitting down now and relaxing. I have no idea why you would throw that into this discussion, projecting your situation onto him is totally irrelevant.

I thought zer0cool laid out a very rational, cogent summary of his feelings, and he didn't blame anyone but himself.

They should call this the 'Attack those who don't speak the company line' thread.


----------



## booger

Has anyone thought that those who are complaining about HD do like Dish and their services quite a bit? If there was absolutely no loyalty then they would just leave. Maybe a goodbye but that would be it.

If Dish was not offering the channels I wanted right now or if my local HD was not even a blip on the radar I would be screaming for them. Why? Because I would rather stay with Dish, the company I've come to like rather than leave for what I feel is a downgrade in hardware/software with Direct. I would rather have my channels with the provider I like rather than switch.

Everyone has a right to gripe and I don't see how it can hurt at all.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jandar

I am one of those who was lead by the carrot over 2 years ago to switch to Dish. (HD Locals for Jacksonville anyone?) I did not want to install an OTA antenna.

Of the 60 markets planed for 2006, only 28 turned on. Mine was not in those. Nor was it in any of the rollouts since.

I decided to stick with Dish as it offered the most HD channels since then. Now that they have lost the lead to DirecTV and still losing ground, why should I not be pissed at Dish?

I was teased by marketing that I was getting my locals in HD without the need for an OTA antenna. That failed..... Now that same marketing department is saying that they are bringing more HD "soon". Why should I believe them at this point.

As it stands right now, Dish has 12 hours to get SciFi in HD or I am gone. I might be only a single sub, but my ~115$ a month will go to another provider. Who is hurt more? Not me.....


----------



## zer0cool

Jersey Girl said:


> Perhaps he doesn't have kids, or his kids are grown, and he's just sitting down now and relaxing. I have no idea why you would throw that into this discussion, projecting your situation onto him is totally irrelevant.
> 
> I thought zer0cool laid out a very rational, cogent summary of his feelings, and he didn't blame anyone but himself.
> 
> They should call this the 'Attack those who don't speak the company line' thread.


Jersey, thanks for the defense.:sure: 
I'm not sure why Projectorguru was attacking me for "whining". I guess the time to question things in order to bring about change for the good was over 40 years ago. I guess we should all just pay our bills, say "thank you", and let Dish executives decide for us what we can and can't watch.

Sure, I'll admit my biggest issue right now is the ONE channel, I myself want so I can watch MY favorite show in HD. I don't give a Frak about SPEED in HD, but I defend the right of those who do, to voice their opinion.

Booger makes some excellent points. I like dish Network. I've been with them for about 10 years. I like the equipment, even defending my reliable 921 when most people were carrying torches mob-style to dish Network's offices. but does that mean I should keep shelling out my hard-earned dollars to them if i don't get what I want in return?

When you're in an abusive or merely neglectful relationship, and your partner says they are going to change, but they never do, how long before you seek what you want elsewhere?


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## GrayCalx

Jersey Girl said:


> Perhaps he doesn't have kids, or his kids are grown, and he's just sitting down now and relaxing. I have no idea why you would throw that into this discussion, projecting your situation onto him is totally irrelevant.
> 
> I thought zer0cool laid out a very rational, cogent summary of his feelings, and he didn't blame anyone but himself.
> 
> They should call this the 'Attack those who don't speak the company line' thread.


Project made the same points that zero did. And he didn't attack him. I think that both of them laid out their points well.

Zero admits he should've left earlier and that its really on him since dish doesn't "owe" him anything. Project maybe jumped on the pile after the play was over but i don't think he attacked anyone.

Someone above made a great point; if this is so important to some people why are they even wasting time posting, I'd immediately be canceling and switching. I also don't see the use complaining over a early termination fee... if you're switching providers every year or two, you're doing it wrong. This industry is always going to leapfrog. Dish has less HD right now. In a year, they'll have more than Direct and then in another year Direct will have more again. If you're going to keep switching every time these flops occur you're going to have to pay those fees.

(really quick that above paragraph wasn't focused on zero, i just went off on a different topic)


----------



## davcole

I've only been a member since the first week in February. I chose the Top 100 which at the time allowed I believe 21 HD Channels? Now 2 of those channels are gone to another tier. There has been no HD to replace it?

I have no remorse for signing with DISH, however I admit a slight disappointment that here in April there's been no additional HD national channels. At the very least it would be nice to see USA and SCI-FI. The most frustrating part is that you hear nothing but speculation and no concrete plans for the expansion of national HD while DirectTV keeps adding additionals.


----------



## projectorguru

zer0cool said:


> Jersey, thanks for the defense.:sure:
> I'm not sure why Projectorguru was attacking me for "whining". I guess the time to question things in order to bring about change for the good was over 40 years ago. I guess we should all just pay our bills, say "thank you", and let Dish executives decide for us what we can and can't watch.
> 
> Sure, I'll admit my biggest issue right now is the ONE channel, I myself want so I can watch MY favorite show in HD. I don't give a Frak about SPEED in HD, but I defend the right of those who do, to voice their opinion.
> 
> Booger makes some excellent points. I like dish Network. I've been with them for about 10 years. I like the equipment, even defending my reliable 921 when most people were carrying torches mob-style to dish Network's offices. but does that mean I should keep shelling out my hard-earned dollars to them if i don't get what I want in return?
> 
> When you're in an abusive or merely neglectful relationship, and your partner says they are going to change, but they never do, how long before you seek what you want elsewhere?


I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


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## zer0cool

projectorguru said:


> I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


Got ya' PG. No harm, no foul...

I was attempting to make my point without being one of the masses of "Grass is always greener...." types that are everywhere in life, not just on these boards, while still venting a little bit about not being able to watch BSG in Hd tonight. Fortunately, one of our friends, who I've been unsuccessfully trying to sway over to Dish Network for the past couple of years, is still on Time Warner, and now has SciFi-HD. Her TV is a little smaller than ours, but i'll live.


----------



## fredp

projectorguru said:


> I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


+1


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## Jersey Girl

projectorguru said:


> I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


Ummmm...but that's specifically what this thread is for.

Maybe everyone should get up and enjoy the outside more, but that's a different thread on a different forum on a different website. This thread on this website is definitively labeled as a gripe thread. Yet people come in and complain about the griping.

And everyone has the right to use their power of choice and not post in, or even look at, this thread if they don't want to.


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## lukin4u

projectorguru said:


> I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


and our advice to you would be to stay out of a gripe thread if you dont want to hear us gripe

outside is for people that dont have a sat. provider


----------



## klegg

Again I say, maybe Sci-Fi is not that BIG of a deal to E*. Just because 10-20 people on this message board (and possibly a few more) think so, doesn't make it reality.

This all gets back to the argument about personal preference.

FYI, I've NEVER watched ANYTHING on Sci-Fi and rarely watch USA. I don't personally know anyone outside of this board that has.


----------



## clapple

This thread goes on and on and on and on. To what point? Not satisfied? Switch! Willing to wait till Dish catches up? Stay. That should be the end of the discussion, but I expect it will go on and on and on!


----------



## projectorguru

lukin4u said:


> and our advice to you would be to stay out of a gripe thread if you dont want to hear us gripe
> 
> outside is for people that dont have a sat. provider


No, I figured I'd gripe about people like you who gripe:lol:

Jersey girl, this thread that thread, it don't matter its all relevent, i could start a thread about how I like my roof on my house, and 7 pages later it would about why thers no more HD yesterday when some other thread said there would be, it just gets funny, I watch blue ray religiously on my projector, so I can't complain about no HD in my house:lol:


----------



## Jersey Girl

projectorguru said:


> No, I figured I'd gripe about people like you who gripe:lol:
> 
> Jersey girl, this thread that thread, it don't matter its all relevent, i could start a thread about how I like my roof on my house, and 7 pages later it would about why thers no more HD yesterday when some other thread said there would be, it just gets funny, I watch blue ray religiously on my projector, so I can't complain about no HD in my house:lol:


Ok, so how about we insert one of these.... :backtotop

And please feel free to start your own thread about how you don't like this thread, but please keep this to the gripe thread that it was intended to be.

Thank you.


----------



## projectorguru

Jersey Girl said:


> Ok, so how about we insert one of these.... :backtotop
> 
> And please feel free to start your own thread about how you don't like this thread, but please keep this to the gripe thread that it was intended to be.
> 
> Thank you.


theres no hd, oh no, the end is near, what will we do, oh my, this can't be happening, wheres charlie?

Gripe on, but you should stay on topic as well JG


----------



## Ron Barry

*Moderator Note: *
Yes this is a the "No HD" gripe thread so lets let people gripe about it. This thread was created for that purpose and to keep it from spilling over into other threads and I want to thank the people that have kept to the spirit of why this thread was created and kept their gripes here.

If people want to start griping about people griping, I suggest moving on because griping about people griping in a thread created for the purpose of griping about a certain topic is Off-Topic. Just ignore the thread... If you want to participated in the discussion and focus on why "No HD" that is fair game here but as soon as posts start to focus on the people griping, the thread is wondering off course.

So as Jersey Girl say... Lets get back on topic.

If you don't understand what I am saying or want toss a huge ROCK in my direction, please drop me a PM and I will be happy to discuss or further clarify my note.


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## neowaxworks

projectorguru said:


> I wasn't attacking YOU per say, its just everyday on this and all the other sites all there is is complaining, and it gets old, my advice is get off yer(not you per say) lazy arse and enjoy the outside


If all the sites have people complaining, doesn't that tell you there IS an issue???
People don't complain JUST to complain... they do it when they feel like they are geting shafted, or when their patience has worn thin...
Going "outside" has NOTHING to do with it... Youi can be active, work and even have an workout plan and STILL be vocal and upset that Dish has dropped the ball and leaves you watching a crappy SD picture ....


----------



## tsmacro

klegg said:


> Again I say, maybe Sci-Fi is not that BIG of a deal to E*. Just because 10-20 people on this message board (and possibly a few more) think so, doesn't make it reality.
> 
> This all gets back to the argument about personal preference.
> 
> FYI, I've NEVER watched ANYTHING on Sci-Fi and rarely watch USA. I don't personally know anyone outside of this board that has.


Actually USA is the top rated cable network and I believe Sci-Fi is also somewhere in the top ten so it probably is a big deal to E* I would imagine. Just because you don't watch those channels doesn't mean they're not popular. However Charlie is a stickler for getting deals that "are fair to everyone" (I believe those were the words he used during the last Chat) and obviously they must not believe they've reached that point yet.


----------



## neowaxworks

klegg said:


> Again I say, maybe Sci-Fi is not that BIG of a deal to E*. Just because 10-20 people on this message board (and possibly a few more) think so, doesn't make it reality.
> 
> This all gets back to the argument about personal preference.
> 
> FYI, I've NEVER watched ANYTHING on Sci-Fi and rarely watch USA. I don't personally know anyone outside of this board that has.


 I watrch Sci-fi almost exclusively... I do not wathc Food, HGTV, Or even thinfgs like Hdnet...only so many times you can see someone cook the same dish..or remodel a house...

I also do not know anyone that does NOT watch sci-fi... I belong to a lot of entertainment boards and the overall consensus is sci-fi is one of the top channels on EVERYONES watching list...
Also to say it is 10-20 people on here is a bit of an understatement... look at sci-fi's message boards alone, and you will see there are hundreds of thousands of viewers that go there.. and since msg board visitors are only a fraction of the overall viewership... I think you will soon figure out WHY it is 15th on the list.. and USA is the #1 cable channel


----------



## projectorguru

neowaxworks said:


> I watrch Sci-fi almost exclusively... I do not wathc Food, HGTV, Or even thinfgs like Hdnet...only so many times you can see someone cook the same dish..or remodel a house...
> 
> I also do not know anyone that does NOT watch sci-fi... I belong to a lot of entertainment boards and the overall consensus is sci-fi is one of the top channels on EVERYONES watching list...
> Also to say it is 10-20 people on here is a bit of an understatement... look at sci-fi's message boards alone, and you will see there are hundreds of thousands of viewers that go there.. and since msg board visitors are only a fraction of the overall viewership... I think you will soon figure out WHY it is 15th on the list.. and USA is the #1 cable channel


Actually Sci-fi, is not a big deal to me, its ok, the onlything i really watch on there is ghost Hunters, most of their movies that are original are so cheesey, I turn it off after 25 minutes, or the first commercial, I really would like USAHD, and my Locals in HD, which the locals seem to be never comming. I had added another HD receiver 2 weeks ago, and the guy from Dish told me I'll have my locals by the end of August in HD, he was told that at a meeting, but I tend not to believe them, cuz when installed my other HD reciver(211) he for got to check the switch he installed, and my other receivers didn't work,:nono:


----------



## russ9

So, back to the No-HD gripe fest. I'll probably make this my last gripe on the subject, because I as really looking forward to Sci-Fi HD tonight, and well although not promised, it sure was teased. And I will point out this is certainly one of the largest threads I have seen in the Dish forums.

Today marks my 11th year as a Dish Network customer, and I have weathered a lot in those years. too many issue to recount (plus that's off topic.) Probably the saving grace was the alt.dbs.echostar newsgroup, which was a better place to find out if problems were on my end or Echostars'. In the short run (which gets longer by the day) Dish is falling so far behind on HD that I am truly annoyed that the self claimed "The Leader in HD" is anything but that. It is simply false advertising.

Of course by being a long time Dish customer, I become part of the problem. To them, I am, for lack of a better term, a sheep. They know I am less likely to bail then others, so they can afford to ignore my concerns. At best, I'm thinking about dropping HD to the essentials package and telling them exactly why.

And although I will gripe, I can live without seeing BSG in HD tonight - last season I held off watching it on Sci-Fi because I knew it was scheduled on Universal HD. I can't assume that this time. So, I'll grumble, enjoy the show -because that's what really counts - have a couple glasses of zinfandel, and tomorrow life will go on.

So, that's my two cents. Which, compounded by inflation, additional thoughts I never wanted to have, lease fees, dvr fees, and optional warranty fees on a leased product, is now my twenty cents.

But the avatar and sig line stays until I get my HD!


----------



## OinkinOregon

For me the only reason I have not left DISH is the superior DVR's that DISH has. Charlie knows that us geeks will not give up the recording power just to get a few more HD channels. And for me... He is right!:nono: As long as D* has inferior equipment I will continue to be a DISH subscriber.


----------



## zer0cool

So, since Sci-Fi isn't that highly rated, it shouldn't be a big concern to dish?
That's what some of you are saying, right?
I know Battlestar Galactica, and Scifi programming in general aren't in the top ten, but let's compare their number of viewers to the viewership for the fine quality programming dish Network blesses us with.

tonight at 9 PM (Central):
SciFi (SD): Battlestar Galactica
Equator (HD): Eye over Italy
Gallery (HD): Experiments from the Voom HD lab
Treasure (HD): Russo & Steel Auction
Animania (HD): Lola & Virginia
Ultra (HD): Behind the Label
Kung FU (HD): Graveyard of Honor

I get it now, they're just like the major networks! They forego critically acclaimed, Peabody award winning, but low-rated cult fare like "Battlestar Galactica" in order to program sure-fire ratings winners like "Behind the Label".
It all makes sense now. Charlie, please forgive me, I had no idea...

I also found it amusing, that the "What's on Dish" link on their site takes you to a Zap2it page, covered in ads for the BSG premiere!


----------



## jacmyoung

OinkinOregon said:


> For me the only reason I have not left DISH is the superior DVR's that DISH has. Charlie knows that us geeks will not give up the recording power just to get a few more HD channels. And for me... He is right!:nono: As long as D* has inferior equipment I will continue to be a DISH subscriber.


I have not heard anyone (there are a lot of them) who recently switched from E* to D* complained about their inferior D* HDDVR's yet.


----------



## neowaxworks

jacmyoung said:


> I have not heard anyone (there are a lot of them) who recently switched from E* to D* complained about their inferior D* HDDVR's yet.


thats cause it is all in what you get used too...they are not inferior, just some people don't want to have to relearn a new setup, so they spew the inferior line


----------



## ziltomil

On the note of Sci-Fi's importance. 

I remember a few years back when comcast moved sci-fi from analog to digital in chicago there was a huge uproar


----------



## neowaxworks

ziltomil said:


> On the note of Sci-Fi's importance.
> 
> I remember a few years back when comcast moved sci-fi from analog to digital in chicago there was a huge uproar


exactly.. the ones that post here saying "it's only tv", "Dish didn't promise anything" "Switch" don't watch Sci-fi so they could care less.. they do not realize the high demand for it....


----------



## klegg

zer0cool said:


> So, since Sci-Fi isn't that highly rated, it shouldn't be a big concern to dish?
> That's what some of you are saying, right?
> I know Battlestar Galactica, and Scifi programming in general aren't in the top ten, but let's compare their number of viewers to the viewership for the fine quality programming dish Network blesses us with.
> 
> tonight at 9 PM (Central):
> SciFi (SD): Battlestar Galactica
> Equator (HD): Eye over Italy
> Gallery (HD): Experiments from the Voom HD lab
> Treasure (HD): Russo & Steel Auction
> Animania (HD): Lola & Virginia
> Ultra (HD): Behind the Label
> Kung FU (HD): Graveyard of Honor
> 
> I get it now, they're just like the major networks! They forego critically acclaimed, Peabody award winning, but low-rated cult fare like "Battlestar Galactica" in order to program sure-fire ratings winners like "Behind the Label".
> It all makes sense now. Charlie, please forgive me, I had no idea...
> 
> I also found it amusing, that the "What's on Dish" link on their site takes you to a Zap2it page, covered in ads for the BSG premiere!


Nice work! Compare a bunch of long-time HD channels to one that JUST became available in HD a couple of months ago.

You guys are hysterical!!!!


----------



## neowaxworks

klegg said:


> Nice work! Compare a bunch of long-time HD channels to one that JUST became available in HD a couple of months ago.
> 
> You guys are hysterical!!!!


Whats worng with the comparison?? Are not people here saying Voom is worth the dollars and more sought after than Sci-fi??
I mean I know I have read several posts saying as much And what else on DishHD is he going to compare it with???


----------



## klegg

neowaxworks said:


> Whats worng with the comparison?? Are not people here saying Voom is worth the dollars and more sought after than Sci-fi??
> I mean I know I have read several posts saying as much And what else on DishHD is he going to compare it with???


Reading is fundamental. The gist of that post was to say..."wow, we can have these meaningless (to that poster anyway) channels, but we can't have Sci-Fi".

My point is, they don't just throw a new channel up every week (I realize that's part of the gripe, but they've even been that way with SD) because some "group" desires it. And to further that, I'm not sure (because I don't watch it), but I think most of those channels have been around longer than BSG has been on air. No?


----------



## Cappyxavs

OinkinOregon said:


> For me the only reason I have not left DISH is the superior DVR's that DISH has. Charlie knows that us geeks will not give up the recording power just to get a few more HD channels. And for me... He is right!:nono: As long as D* has inferior equipment I will continue to be a DISH subscriber.


i agree and they have great customer service. i get 2 more dvrs tommorow can't wait. to switch to D would have cost me 500 for start up and then i may have gotten a abomination for my dvrs.

now where the heck is my sci-fi hd


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## Stewart Vernon

It's perfectly fine to gripe about some things, and we have different things that push our buttons. I've put my own HD (and no HD) gripes in this thread too.

I do think it is valid, however, to also point out in a "no HD" gripe thread when something isn't a reasonable gripe.

If someone says "Charlie promised SciFiHD" and we all know he did no such thing... then any gripe that starts with "Charlie broke his promise" is kind of asking to be commented upon, isn't it?

Meanwhile, back to topic.

I am confused, as some folks are, as to why we don't have SciFiHD or USAHD yet. Since they cleared space (per the uplink reports) on 110 and have basically put nothing up there in close to 6 months now I believe... I do think there is more that we don't know, so I can't go so far as to say "there is no reason"... but I am bewildered.

I too thought having Tricia Helfer on the last Chat was a positive sign... as why else would they have her on at that time?

I am in a different camp than many of the gripers I think. I am disappointed, and I do want more HD.. and I especially want a channel or two (like SciFi and USA). I just don't want to take down an existing channel to do it.. and I don't feel like Charlie or Dish has broken any promises to me. They have more HD than they did when I signed up and agreed to a particular price.. and no channels are ever guaranteed... so I don't feel like I'm owed anything in particular.

I guess I'm a couple of rungs down on the gripe-meter than some folks.


----------



## klegg

HDMe said:


> It's perfectly fine to gripe about some things, and we have different things that push our buttons. I've put my own HD (and no HD) gripes in this thread too.
> 
> I do think it is valid, however, to also point out in a "no HD" gripe thread when something isn't a reasonable gripe.
> 
> If someone says "Charlie promised SciFiHD" and we all know he did no such thing... then any gripe that starts with "Charlie broke his promise" is kind of asking to be commented upon, isn't it?
> 
> Meanwhile, back to topic.
> 
> I am confused, as some folks are, as to why we don't have SciFiHD or USAHD yet. Since they cleared space (per the uplink reports) on 110 and have basically put nothing up there in close to 6 months now I believe... I do think there is more that we don't know, so I can't go so far as to say "there is no reason"... but I am bewildered.
> 
> I too thought having Tricia Helfer on the last Chat was a positive sign... as why else would they have her on at that time?
> 
> I am in a different camp than many of the gripers I think. I am disappointed, and I do want more HD.. and I especially want a channel or two (like SciFi and USA). I just don't want to take down an existing channel to do it.. and I don't feel like Charlie or Dish has broken any promises to me. They have more HD than they did when I signed up and agreed to a particular price.. and no channels are ever guaranteed... so I don't feel like I'm owed anything in particular.
> 
> I guess I'm a couple of rungs down on the gripe-meter than some folks.


The only thing I might gripe about with regards to HD is when they add more and the price DOESN'T go up. I mean, think about it, how could they afford to just "give" us more HD w/o raising the price unless they are sticking it to us now...


----------



## zer0cool

klegg said:


> Reading is fundamental. The gist of that post was to say..."wow, we can have these meaningless (to that poster anyway) channels, but we can't have Sci-Fi".
> 
> My point is, they don't just throw a new channel up every week (I realize that's part of the gripe, but they've even been that way with SD) because some "group" desires it. And to further that, I'm not sure (because I don't watch it), but I think most of those channels have been around longer than BSG has been on air. No?


Actually, the "gist" was to counter the argument that only a few people cared about SciFi HD. By comparison, how many people care about Ultra, Equator, etc.
I certainly don't see throngs of people on DirecTv forums clamoring for the ability to watch "Behind the Label" in HD. If any of these channels went away to be replaced by USA, SciFi, or Speed in HD, I doubt the complaints would be one tenth of what they've been for no BSG in HD. And it's not just here. Other Satellite Tv forums are filled with complaints on the same subject.
I don't care that those channels have been around for years, I care about the lack of ANy new national HD.


----------



## klegg

zer0cool said:


> Actually, the "gist" was to counter the argument that only a few people cared about SciFi HD. By comparison, how many people care about Ultra, Equator, etc.
> I certainly don't see throngs of people on DirecTv forums clamoring for the ability to watch "Behind the Label" in HD. If any of these channels went away to be replaced by USA, SciFi, or Speed in HD, I doubt the complaints would be one tenth of what they've been for no BSG in HD. And it's not just here. Other Satellite Tv forums are filled with complaints on the same subject.
> I don't care that those channels have been around for years, I care about the lack of ANy new national HD.


I'm sure we'd find out how many people watch those channels if they take one or more of them down. I'm not psychic, so I don't know just how many people watch them...I don't.

Screw D*...I thought this was an E* board...

But the logic makes no sense. The point is, they HAVE been around for years. They are more than likely contractually bound to show those channels, so taking a channel down is probably not an option, therefore, the comparison is not really a good one...IMO...


----------



## neowaxworks

klegg said:


> I'm sure we'd find out how many people watch those channels if they take one or more of them down. I'm not psychic, so I don't know just how many people watch them...I don't.
> 
> Screw D*...I thought this was an E* board...
> 
> But the logic makes no sense. The point is, they HAVE been around for years. They are more than likely contractually bound to show those channels, so taking a channel down is probably not an option, therefore, the comparison is not really a good one...IMO...


Ok substitute those for the TennisHD,MojoHD, WFN test channels they have active...why put those out, when people are wanting something else?


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## klegg

neowaxworks said:


> Ok substitute those for the TennisHD,MojoHD, WFN test channels they have active...why put those out, when people are wanting something else?


I would assume they are putting those up in addition to Sci-Fi and USA, but it'd just be a guess. I guess that's why I think this is comical. I want you guys to have YOUR channels too, but there are probably just as many that want more premiums in HD (me being one). I just can't believe "Charlie" is sitting around saying "screw them...I'm gonna add MojoHD and not add Sci-Fi" and risk losing customers if the station is as popular as I'm led to believe. I believe there are other issues that we don't know about and he's not ready to say just what that is. No doubt, E* doesn't WANT to lose subs...


----------



## rey_1178

OinkinOregon said:


> For me the only reason I have not left DISH is the superior DVR's that DISH has. Charlie knows that us geeks will not give up the recording power just to get a few more HD channels. And for me... He is right!:nono: As long as D* has inferior equipment I will continue to be a DISH subscriber.


+1

i recently tried dtv out and i canceled the service within the hour of installation. i couldn't see myself getting used to this inferior hd dvr compared to my vip 622. so i stayed with dish. that's my opinion on the hardware of course. but if this continues with E well i might have to think about just getting used to their hd dvr. we'll see i guess.


----------



## neowaxworks

klegg said:


> I would assume they are putting those up in addition to Sci-Fi and USA, but it'd just be a guess. I guess that's why I think this is comical. I want you guys to have YOUR channels too, but there are probably just as many that want more premiums in HD (me being one). I just can't believe "Charlie" is sitting around saying "screw them...I'm gonna add MojoHD and not add Sci-Fi" and risk losing customers if the station is as popular as I'm led to believe. I believe there are other issues that we don't know about and he's not ready to say just what that is. No doubt, E* doesn't WANT to lose subs...


I wouldn't mind the encore channels.. but other than that, with Sho and Hbo.. all the premium stuff is pretty well covered....I used to sub to all of them but eventually dropped then cause I never watched them


----------



## rey_1178

zer0cool said:


> Actually, the "gist" was to counter the argument that only a few people cared about SciFi HD. By comparison, how many people care about Ultra, Equator, etc.
> I certainly don't see throngs of people on DirecTv forums clamoring for the ability to watch "Behind the Label" in HD. If any of these channels went away to be replaced by USA, SciFi, or Speed in HD, I doubt the complaints would be one tenth of what they've been for no BSG in HD. And it's not just here. Other Satellite Tv forums are filled with complaints on the same subject.
> I don't care that those channels have been around for years, I care about the lack of ANy new national HD.


i agree. even though i really don't watch scifi i would still be happy to get it! all i want are more options of hd channels to choose from.


----------



## phrelin

You can't imagine how stunned I was today when I went to Dish ONDEMAND - TV Entertainment, and discovered the to BSG half-hour extras (or promos) that ran last week (along with four March Madness games). Maybe Charlie could also figure out how to send salt via satellite for me to rub in my wounds.:nono2:


----------



## James Long

neowaxworks said:


> If all the sites have people complaining, doesn't that tell you there IS an issue???


Perhaps they are just bored? Turn on a couple of new HD channels and they will have something to do (until they are bored again). 



> People don't complain JUST to complain...


Actually, some do. You're new here (other than lurking) and seem to be only interested in this thread ... but there is a LONG history of complaining about HD going back to at least 2003. There have been some times when the complaints get louder and some quiet periods ... but people have been complaining for a long time. Generally when the channel they are complaining about is added they complain about the resolution or lack of HD content - or they just move on to the next channel to complain about. The one constant is complaints.



neowaxworks said:


> Whats worng with the comparison?? Are not people here saying Voom is worth the dollars and more sought after than Sci-fi??


Voom is a premium level (DishHD Ultimate) group of channels. Comparing it to a standard broadcast channel is a bad comparison. No one is forced to buy Voom (unless desiring one of the other four channels in Utimate "forces" them).



phrelin said:


> You can't imagine how stunned I was today when I went to Dish ONDEMAND - TV Entertainment, and discovered the to BSG half-hour extras (or promos) that ran last week (along with four March Madness games). Maybe Charlie could also figure out how to send salt via satellite for me to rub in my wounds.:nono2:


DISH needs to find a better way of advertising these as well. Who thinks to check "TV Entertainment" on a regular basis?


----------



## lparsons21

neowaxworks said:


> thats cause it is all in what you get used too...they are not inferior, just some people don't want to have to relearn a new setup, so they spew the inferior line


Well, I don't know if I'd go that far. I've had 4 HR20-100's and one HR21-700 in the 2 months I've been with Direct and all 5 have been dog slow in comparison to Dish's HDDVRs. Other than the speed of operation it really is just a difference in how they each do their thing.

That said, I do find myself watching the shows in HD on the TV much more than I watch the satellite equipment, who'd a thunk that? :lol:


----------



## jandar

Well, much as I love BSG on SciFi, I am holding off watching it.

My wife and I are watching John Adams in HD off of the DVR.

Thanks Dish, I had a little faith in you, not any more.....

Calling dish now to complain and cancel service.

* called dish to get my price for cancellation, Right now it balances out even (in cost for the next year) if I transferred to DirecTV for the same packages (and all the extra HD). Time to see what the wife thinks.


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## Cappyxavs

it's 10 o'clock and no hd-sci fi.... so who's leaving?

not even basket weaving HD:hurah:

when BSG ends what would any one watch on sci-fi hd? really there are only two decent shows... BSG and DR WHO.


----------



## puckwithahalo

I'm sure its been said here before but E* was the leader in HD for literally years....D* has been ahead for what? 9 months? I think some of you are overreacting a bit....just my two cents though. to each his own....


----------



## jandar

Like I have stated before, I was lead to dish by the carrot of the Jacksonville DMA being in HD in 2006. That never happened.

2 years of empty promises by Dish. How can I not be pissed?


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## puckwithahalo

> Like I have stated before, I was lead to dish by the carrot of the Jacksonville DMA being in HD in 2006. That never happened.
> 
> 2 years of empty promises by Dish. How can I not be pissed?


you sir have a valid complaint. that's why i qualified it with "some of you". then again, there's a reason i never promise any channel until it has an official release date. (i'm a TSRIII at E*, and yes, i might be a bit biased, though i do try to be objective about things).


----------



## razorbackfan

I do however, appreciate the irony in the Directv HD commercials while watching BSG in SD on Dish.


----------



## texaswolf

> Actually, some do. You're new here (other than lurking) and seem to be only interested in this thread ... but there is a LONG history of complaining about HD going back to at least 2003. There have been some times when the complaints get louder and some quiet periods ... but people have been complaining for a long time. Generally when the channel they are complaining about is added they complain about the resolution or lack of HD content - or they just move on to the next channel to complain about. The one constant is complaints.


Regardless if he is new or not, he is one more person joining the ever growing issue of new HD channels on here and every other DBS site....the claim that some are taking on this site about the "same old complaints" is running out.

That being said, I wasn't surprised Sci FI wasn't lit up by today...i had hope, but not a lot...Charlie never promised us a date, just that it was coming for sure (although the trish helfer thing was a bit misleading...but hey). They are in a rough spot with the sat situation, so I'm not gonna bash it right now...at least they were trying to do something, and finally communicated with us (which is what we wanted). Now as far as sci fi and USA not being added on the current sat...that im curious about...but i'm sure there is reasoning. I'm just gonna keep watching BSG at my friends with D*...and hope we get it soon.



> Voom is a premium level (DishHD Ultimate) group of channels. Comparing it to a standard broadcast channel is a bad comparison. No one is forced to buy Voom (unless desiring one of the other four channels in Utimate "forces" them).


I agree and disagree here...Your also comparing a national channel with a non national group of channels...so your right, there really isn't a comparison. I don't have the numbers in front of me,but i would be willing to bet that one night of BSG's and Stargate numbers could probably beat the entire VOOM network, prime time slot on the same night...(Rave may put up some numbers). Now I'm against taking away any channels to add others, and will probably never happen...so the whole argument is probably useless anyway.

Just have to hope they are able to get things going right with the sats, so they can start adding the channels, and we can all be happy.......for 5 min.


----------



## texaswolf

puckwithahalo said:


> I'm sure its been said here before but E* was the leader in HD for literally years....D* has been ahead for what? 9 months? I think some of you are overreacting a bit....just my two cents though. to each his own....


fast out of the gate with HD was good...however down the backstretch D* and Cable keep adding and adding...i think thats where that argument gets question...well have to see what Charlie horse can do around the next turn.


----------



## killzone

It's pathetic that Sci fi isn't in up in HD yet. They could have at least put it up for the hour that BSG was on.


----------



## neowaxworks

puckwithahalo said:


> I'm sure its been said here before but E* was the leader in HD for literally years....D* has been ahead for what? 9 months? I think some of you are overreacting a bit....just my two cents though. to each his own....


over reacting??? this thread is 99% about 2 channels that dish put into the stream 6 months ago but can't seem to turn them on.. Heck I was promised Sci-fi was coming to dish within a month when I subd(over 5 months ago).. thats WHY I chose dish over Dtv
Dish is spewing lil's...people want nationals...I can get OTA via rabit ears, or heck I could sub to basic cable (13 CHANNELS) for $13/mnth and get all the locals in hd FREE....

and even this miniscule Cable company has Sci-fi HD while dish yet again dropped the ball...
I really have no faith that they will EVER be a leader in anythign, they have dug to deep a hole and Dtv has too much a substantial lead on them for them to ever surpass them now...

Heck they didn't even do the next logical thing to at least appease the masses and up the bandwidth/resolution for the BCG in SD showing...it still had the crappy artifacts and over compressed look....on an HDTV it is almost unwatchable


----------



## texaswolf

heres a thought for BSG fans...i had thought of doing it...but decided to goto my buddies instead. Record each week (just don't watch them yet) when we do get it in HD...watch for the catch up marathon (they always have them)...then record them in HD and erase the SD...now if it comes to half the season and still no HD in site...watch the recorded SD.....just a thought if your patient enough to do it...i'm not hence relocating to watch it....just a thought. :shrug:


----------



## lparsons21

Cappyxavs said:


> it's 10 o'clock and no hd-sci fi.... so who's leaving?
> 
> not even basket weaving HD:hurah:
> 
> when BSG ends what would any one watch on sci-fi hd? really there are only two decent shows... BSG and DR WHO.


I don't even like BSG...

But there's Stargate Atlantis & SG1, not to mention Eureka! All on hiatus or repeats right now, but soon back on. But even the SD programming on the HD channels is better than the SD channel itself, especially with SciFi.


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> it's 10 o'clock and no hd-sci fi.... so who's leaving?
> 
> not even basket weaving HD:hurah:
> 
> when BSG ends what would any one watch on sci-fi hd? really there are only two decent shows... BSG and DR WHO.


missed this post ealier..
BSG
Dr Who
SG:Atlantis
Enterprise
Eureka
Flash Gorden

not to mention the better PQ of the added bandwidth for Ghosthunters, Destinateion truth
Plus excelent Sci-fi films like Tin man...
old reruns of quantum leap, x-files..
I literally, unless I am watching a collage Basketball game, have it on sci-fi or history and thats it....


----------



## texaswolf

neowaxworks said:


> missed this post ealier..
> BSG
> Dr Who
> SG:Atlantis
> Enterprise
> Eureka
> Flash Gorden
> 
> not to mention the better PQ of the added bandwidth for Ghosthunters, Destinateion truth
> Plus excelent Sci-fi films like Tin man...
> old reruns of quantum leap, x-files..
> I literally, unless I am watching a collage Basketball game, have it on sci-fi or history and thats it....


wow...as did I...or i would have chimed in on it....did they renew Flash?


----------



## lparsons21

texaswolf said:


> wow...as did I...or i would have chimed in on it....did they renew Flash?


I think I read somewhere that they did. I know Eureka will be back.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Your also comparing a national channel with a non national group of channels...


You're tossing out a group of channels just because they are exclusive to one carrier? They are all nationally available channels.


----------



## texaswolf

lparsons21 said:


> I think I read somewhere that they did. I know Eureka will be back.


sweet...the shows are cheeeeeeezy....and we know this...but we still like them:lol:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Worth a reminder... to point to a forum like this and say a lot of people are complaining so it must mean most people also are unhappy is not necessarily a valid assumption. You should really think of this forum as a Doctor's office, or sometimes an Emergency Room.

Go to your Doctor's waiting room, or the Emergency room... and I'll bet a lot of people there are sick! But that doesn't mean most people in the world are sick. We tend to only be in the hospital or at the Dr when we are sick, so the sampling of people at those places does not extrapolate to the rest of the population.

Same for here... even if every single one of us agreed on the same complaint (sometimes we actually almost do), it may not be representative of anyone else... because most folks tend to find these forums because they have a question OR a problem that needs a solution OR lastly just to chat... but questions and problems are what drove most of us to find this forum in the first place... 

Think of a picket line. Everyone on the picket line is protesting something BUT they do not necessarily reflect the rest of the world. Just a small sampling who by the nature of society gather together to discuss their common gripe.

So in a gripe thread most of us should be griping! But we might be the only subscribers who actually have a gripe.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Something else worth considering. Universal/NBC likely has been using the BSG carrot to say "you gotta have this in HD" and ask for more money... but then Dish gets locked into a higher rate and BSG is gone after this season.

Think TBS"HD"... Lots of subscribers pressured Dish to add it for MLB playoffs last season... then baseball was done and basically until this week virtually no HD on the channel... and so Dish has seen lots of complaints of "why did you add this channel".

So... Imagine now Dish hearing all the "we want SciFiHD for BSG's final season"... and then imagine Dish thinking why should they pay a premium to add it now and then risk people saying "why are we stuck with this crap channel" after BSG's season ends.


----------



## neowaxworks

HDMe said:


> Worth a reminder... to point to a forum like this and say a lot of people are complaining so it must mean most people also are unhappy is not necessarily a valid assumption. You should really think of this forum as a Doctor's office, or sometimes an Emergency Room.
> 
> Go to your Doctor's waiting room, or the Emergency room... and I'll bet a lot of people there are sick! But that doesn't mean most people in the world are sick. We tend to only be in the hospital or at the Dr when we are sick, so the sampling of people at those places does not extrapolate to the rest of the population.
> 
> Same for here... even if every single one of us agreed on the same complaint (sometimes we actually almost do), it may not be representative of anyone else... because most folks tend to find these forums because they have a question OR a problem that needs a solution OR lastly just to chat... but questions and problems are what drove most of us to find this forum in the first place...
> 
> Think of a picket line. Everyone on the picket line is protesting something BUT they do not necessarily reflect the rest of the world. Just a small sampling who by the nature of society gather together to discuss their common gripe.
> 
> So in a gripe thread most of us should be griping! But we might be the only subscribers who actually have a gripe.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Something else worth considering. Universal/NBC likely has been using the BSG carrot to say "you gotta have this in HD" and ask for more money... but then Dish gets locked into a higher rate and BSG is gone after this season.
> 
> Think TBS"HD"... Lots of subscribers pressured Dish to add it for MLB playoffs last season... then baseball was done and basically until this week virtually no HD on the channel... and so Dish has seen lots of complaints of "why did you add this channel".
> 
> So... Imagine now Dish hearing all the "we want SciFiHD for BSG's final season"... and then imagine Dish thinking why should they pay a premium to add it now and then risk people saying "why are we stuck with this crap channel" after BSG's season ends.


If it was just this forum, you'd have a valid point.. but it isn't... do a search for dish and sci-fi HD for example...
Also if sci-fi didn't have a bunch of shows and movies in hd, your point about tbs would be valid, since it DOES have as much HD as Disc or history..I think it makes it pretty moot...
besides... as stated previously.. the PQ even in Upcoverted SD is 1000 times better than SCi-fi's SD feed, so that alone makes the channel worth having


----------



## James Long

All the forums in the world discussing this topic reflect just a fraction of the subscribers ... and no, you are not their elected representative.

HDMe has it right ... the complaints you see online are from a small non-representative minority of customers - and non-customers.


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> Worth a reminder... to point to a forum like this and say a lot of people are complaining so it must mean most people also are unhappy is not necessarily a valid assumption. You should really think of this forum as a Doctor's office, or sometimes an Emergency Room.
> 
> Go to your Doctor's waiting room, or the Emergency room... and I'll bet a lot of people there are sick! But that doesn't mean most people in the world are sick. We tend to only be in the hospital or at the Dr when we are sick, so the sampling of people at those places does not extrapolate to the rest of the population.
> 
> Same for here... even if every single one of us agreed on the same complaint (sometimes we actually almost do), it may not be representative of anyone else... because most folks tend to find these forums because they have a question OR a problem that needs a solution OR lastly just to chat... but questions and problems are what drove most of us to find this forum in the first place...
> 
> Think of a picket line. Everyone on the picket line is protesting something BUT they do not necessarily reflect the rest of the world. Just a small sampling who by the nature of society gather together to discuss their common gripe.
> 
> So in a gripe thread most of us should be griping! But we might be the only subscribers who actually have a gripe.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Something else worth considering. Universal/NBC likely has been using the BSG carrot to say "you gotta have this in HD" and ask for more money... but then Dish gets locked into a higher rate and BSG is gone after this season.
> 
> Think TBS"HD"... Lots of subscribers pressured Dish to add it for MLB playoffs last season... then baseball was done and basically until this week virtually no HD on the channel... and so Dish has seen lots of complaints of "why did you add this channel".
> 
> So... Imagine now Dish hearing all the "we want SciFiHD for BSG's final season"... and then imagine Dish thinking why should they pay a premium to add it now and then risk people saying "why are we stuck with this crap channel" after BSG's season ends.


ANALOGY MAN IS BACK!! LOL 3 of them this time...thats why i love ya man...

this is all NBC/Universals fault!!! HAd they left it on NBC we would be having this issue right now!!!


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> All the forums in the world discussing this topic reflect just a fraction of the subscribers ... and no, you are not their elected representative.
> 
> HDMe has it right ... the complaints you see online are from a small non-representative minority of customers - and non-customers.


this is really a circle argument...as I and several others have pointed out...each of know at least 3 others who are saying the same thing, that aren't DBS subs.....if it was just us on the sites, Charlie wouldn't have mentioned the high demand for the channel in HD.


----------



## neowaxworks

James Long said:


> All the forums in the world discussing this topic reflect just a fraction of the subscribers ... and no, you are not their elected representative.
> 
> HDMe has it right ... the complaints you see online are from a small non-representative minority of customers - and non-customers.


 I 100% disagree...I dont' know ANYONE in person thats not complaining about the sci-fi issue... it is a MUCH larger issue than you guys want to represent...
Yes the forums are a small representation, but just like polling in elections.. you can see the larger picture from a small sampling....

Here is an even better picture... look at the sheer numbers of people on forums complaining..
Then figure that dish doesn't have that many HD subs as compared to non hd subs...that makes the number complaing even larger in the bigger picture


----------



## James Long

Guys, I'm not saying there is zero "real world" problems ... just that the actual issue is extremely amplified online - especially in threads and forums where people are encouraged to complain.

Read through this thread (and others) and you will see a representative sample of POSITIVE posts as well - accepting the current situation, like it or not. If we were to eliminate the most verbose people on "both sides" of the argument there would hardly be an argument. It practically comes down to the same dozen people with the same never changing position on the same people.

Neowaxworks, you want to look at the sheer number of people? Look at the sheer number of people. You count as one person - even if you've made 38+ posts mostly on this subject in the past 52 hours.


----------



## Ron Barry

> I 100% disagree...I dont' know ANYONE in person thats not complaining about the sci-fi issue... it is a MUCH larger issue than you guys want to represent...
> Yes the forums are a small representation, but just like polling in elections.. you can see the larger picture from a small sampling....
> 
> Here is an even better picture... look at the sheer numbers of people on forums complaining..
> Then figure that dish doesn't have that many HD subs as compared to non hd subs...that makes the number complaing even larger in the bigger picture


Guess what.. I don't know of anyone in person that is.... Does that mean anything in relation to this issue?? Well about as much as you not knowing anyone that is not complaining..

It has been said here over and over again on this site and it has been a general agreement by most people over the last five years I have been here, this is one data point and to take this an extrapolate it into any generalization most likely would not reflect reality. Even if you take all the sites discussing this issue... It Just is not scientific. Yes it provides a view of the issue.. but to go any further than that would not be accurate in my opinion.

As for election poll comparision.. This is not anywhere near the quality of a election poll for one following reason.

'The poll or opinions here are not taken in a Random fashion. People are coming here offering there opinion and that is a far cry from polling in elections so I don't think you can with any level of confidence paint a large accurate picture from this sampling. Yes you can paint a picture... but each one of us would paint a picture and as I see it.. the pictures would differ greatly based on how each one of us perceives the posts... Perception is just perceived reality and there is no way you can extrapolate something close to reality from a bunch of internet posts.

I am not discounting that people would like to see SciFi in HD on Dish... I think that goes without question. Lots of people would love to see it in HD. Smaller percentage is it is a Must have in HD now... What those numbers are... Where they fit into the picture.. Well that is a very hard question to answer. I know we have some vocal BSG guys here and they are upset because BSG final season and right now no HD on Dish for SciFi..

As for why Dish has not flipped the switch is the 64K question.... One that I don't think anyone here can answer... I do agree with James in that something must be a miss because I am sure if Dish could flip the switch they would.. Why would they not so something must be preventing this from happening and I think Tom listed some of the possible reasons and I also agreed with him on those. It would be nice if Dish would let us know, but bottom line is nothing has been said and it appears that it is coming... Question is when and I hope for the BSG guys it comes soon.


----------



## aloishus27

neowaxworks said:


> I 100% disagree...I dont' know ANYONE in person thats not complaining about the sci-fi issue... it is a MUCH larger issue than you guys want to represent...
> Yes the forums are a small representation, but just like polling in elections.. you can see the larger picture from a small sampling....
> 
> Here is an even better picture... look at the sheer numbers of people on forums complaining..
> Then figure that dish doesn't have that many HD subs as compared to non hd subs...that makes the number complaing even larger in the bigger picture


I don't watch Sci-fi, my parents dont, my cousins dont and my friends dont. so right there is around 100 people. Approx. half are Dish subs. so 50 of us don't give 2 craps about Sci-Fi in HD.

With that said, I would like to have seen BSG in HD just to see what all the fuss is about. Then I would like to see all of my Star Trek movies in HD. However if i really want to see them in the best PQ possible I'll get all the movies on Blu-Ray and have them whenever I want to watch them. Thus nullifying my need for Sc-Fi HD.


----------



## Cappyxavs

aloishus27 said:


> I don't watch Sci-fi, my parents dont, my cousins dont and my friends dont. so right there is around 100 people. Approx. half are Dish subs. so 50 of us don't give 2 craps about Sci-Fi in HD.
> 
> With that said, I would like to have seen BSG in HD just to see what all the fuss is about. Then I would like to see all of my Star Trek movies in HD. However if i really want to see them in the best PQ possible I'll get all the movies on Blu-Ray and have them whenever I want to watch them. Thus nullifying my need for Sc-Fi HD.


outside of this forum i know of no one who cares about sci-fi in hd. when i brought up the fact of sci-fi in hd to my wife as one reason to consider D she didn't think it was worth it. 
I was way more upset with the movement of NFL to a higher tier. 
if you would like to see what bsg looks like in HD just watch for it to come back on hd-net and tune in. also you can see torchwood and enterprise there as well.

one of my main reasons for considering D was the tier had the discovery network channels, BBC, NFL, disc times, and such i wanted in a well packaged tier. some things that kept me here with E was the equipment functionality, cust service (i hear D is bad), consistent weather signal, 350 dollars less to aqcuire my new HD-DVRs and actualy monsters hd.

one thing i can tell you is i for one would like to have my locals in HD and if D had this it would have been a deal maker. my wife watches the locals more than anything else and it would have been a deal maker for her as well. the argument of rabbit ears and cable is not valid as one requires a digital antenna, wiring and available signal the cable would involve a digital hd tier subscription not the analog tier to get the hd and i for one have cable for my internet and know what that analog tier looks like you don't want it can you say snowy and ghosting?

unfortunatly the local hope for me is bleak as i believe i am in a 3rd market so i'll get it when fly over country gets it.

closing note as far as promises go my friend has been with D for years and has stated they have been promising him hd locals for over two years. i guess promises are made to be broken don't get wraped up in them.


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> outside of this forum i know of no one who cares about sci-fi in hd. when i brought up the fact of sci-fi in hd to my wife as one reason to consider D she didn't think it was worth it.
> I was way more upset with the movement of NFL to a higher tier.
> if you would like to see what bsg looks like in HD just watch for it to come back on hd-net and tune in. also you can see torchwood and enterprise there as well.
> 
> one of my main reasons for considering D was the tier had the discovery network channels, BBC, NFL, disc times, and such i wanted in a well packaged tier. some things that kept me here with E was the equipment functionality, cust service (i hear D is bad), consistent weather signal, 350 dollars less to aqcuire my new HD-DVRs and actualy monsters hd.
> 
> one thing i can tell you is i for one would like to have my locals in HD and if D had this it would have been a deal maker. my wife watches the locals more than anything else and it would have been a deal maker for her as well. the argument of rabbit ears and cable is not valid as one requires a digital antenna, wiring and available signal the cable would involve a digital hd tier subscription not the analog tier to get the hd and i for one have cable for my internet and know what that analog tier looks like you don't want it can you say snowy and ghosting?
> 
> unfortunatly the local hope for me is bleak as i believe i am in a 3rd market so i'll get it when fly over country gets it.
> 
> closing note as far as promises go my friend has been with D for years and has stated they have been promising him hd locals for over two years. i guess promises are made to be broken don't get wraped up in them.


 FCC rule they HAVE to include your locals in HD in CLEAR qam...my dad has no digital cable -package but still gets the locals in HD....so no, you don't need anythign extra with cable..
Also the snowy and ghosting... Could be degraded...alot of cable companies block the all the signals except the black that carries the digital cable freqencies, so what you are seeing may or may not be a true representation.. My dads was quite impressive I thought... Very good PQ even on a HDTV.. good enough that I could tell which channels they get digitally at Dishnet bitrates...(Could see some artifacting that the ch modulation couldn't hide)
As for OTA... Who told you you need a digital antenna?? I use a plain ole 30 mile rooftop antenna(it's a rural area with no line of site)...Just cause the signal is digital, it is STILL just a signal.. heck if you are in a good line of site a car antenna will work....
I have also used rabit ears (Powered set top set) with success on the other side of the house (Again no line of site and stil got a 80% quality with the rabit ears)

Anyway LOTS of myths about all that, that are simply not true


----------



## TulsaOK

HDMe said:


> So... Imagine now Dish hearing all the "we want SciFiHD for BSG's final season"... and then imagine Dish thinking why should they pay a premium to add it now and then risk people saying "why are we stuck with this crap channel" after BSG's season ends.


Good point.
Isn't that what happened last fall during the MLB playoffs when TBS went HD under quite a bit of pressure? Now, I read a lot of posts complaining that TBS, and their stretch-o-vision, really sucks.


----------



## killzone

James Long said:


> All the forums in the world discussing this topic reflect just a fraction of the subscribers ... and no, you are not their elected representative.
> 
> HDMe has it right ... the complaints you see online are from a small non-representative minority of customers - and non-customers.


The other way of looking at this is that for each person here being vocal in their complaint, there are 1000 others who feel the same way but haven't bothered to complain.


----------



## neowaxworks

killzone said:


> The other way of looking at this is that for each person here being vocal in their complaint, there are 1000 others who feel the same way but haven't bothered to complain.


or don't get on message boards...
Thats why I say it can't be trivialized... the other side of the debate can't say the above statemnt is NOT true....


----------



## TulsaOK

killzone said:


> The other way of looking at this is that for each person here being vocal in their complaint, there are 1000 others who feel the same way but haven't bothered to complain.


And, probably 1,000 others who *don't* feel the same way and feel they don't really have anything about which to complain.
I would like to see Sci-Fi in HD and a few others as well. But, I'm not sitting wringing my hands and threatening to leave because of it. If this is one of the biggest things in some folks lives, well it just sucks to be them.


----------



## neowaxworks

TulsaOK said:


> And, probably 1,000 others who *don't* feel the same way and feel they don't really have anything about which to complain.
> I would like to see Sci-Fi in HD and a few others as well. But, I'm not sitting wringing my hands and threatening to leave because of it. If this is one of the biggest things in some folks lives, well it just sucks to be them.


 People are talking about switching and are getting upset because of the delay... had they not removed 2 HDppv and uplinked USA-SCi-fi slates 6 months ago (and yes, you do not need to be a message board member to hear about it), people might not be as impatient..., but since Dtv has had Sci-fi HD for that long, while Dish STILL hasn't turned them on... peopel get frustrated.. makes you question the competency of the company as a whole..

And I am sure there is also a large % that doesn't care one way or the other.. thats why I say you can't trivialize it... it COULD be split 50/50..


----------



## crookedcarrot

For me this isn't JUST about Sci-fi and USA.

Its about Cartoon Network, Disney, FX, Spike TV, MGM, MTV, Nick, three Showtime channels, FIVE Starz channels, two HBO channels, Toon Disney, VH1.

I'm talking about selection. Would I watch half of these channels? Maybe not. But I joined Dish because they were the leader in HD. I like Dish as a company and I like their hardware. But they are slipping now, and as far as I or anyone else can tell, they're not going to be able to catch up very soon, especially if they can't get TWO channels going. Meanwhile DirectTV seems to be able to start them with ease.

I've been very patient with Dish and will continue to do so but they need to do something fast.


----------



## crookedcarrot

TulsaOK said:


> And, probably 1,000 others who *don't* feel the same way and feel they don't really have anything about which to complain.
> I would like to see Sci-Fi in HD and a few others as well. But, I'm not sitting wringing my hands and threatening to leave because of it. If this is one of the biggest things in some folks lives, well it just sucks to be them.


I've got plenty of things to do with my life besides watch TV and wait for HD, but why should I pay the same amount of money for less channels?

If you like to play baseball for recreation, would you be fine with paying $50 for a ball and glove from Company A when you could pay Company B $50 for a ball, glove and a bat? If you were loyal to Company A you might wait for them to come out with a bat. Now Company A starts promising you a bat but they won't give it to you. Meanwhile Company B is offering a ball, glove, bat and now bases for $50, but Company A still hasn't given you that bat. You get frustrated. You could do other things besides play baseball, does that mean you should just keep paying Company A for less? Well then maybe its time to switch to Company B.

I can use analagies too!


----------



## Cappyxavs

neowaxworks said:


> FCC rule they HAVE to include your locals in HD in CLEAR qam...my dad has no digital cable -package but still gets the locals in HD....so no, you don't need anythign extra with cable..
> Also the snowy and ghosting... Could be degraded...alot of cable companies block the all the signals except the black that carries the digital cable freqencies, so what you are seeing may or may not be a true representation.. My dads was quite impressive I thought... Very good PQ even on a HDTV.. good enough that I could tell which channels they get digitally at Dishnet bitrates...(Could see some artifacting that the ch modulation couldn't hide)
> As for OTA... Who told you you need a digital antenna?? I use a plain ole 30 mile rooftop antenna(it's a rural area with no line of site)...Just cause the signal is digital, it is STILL just a signal.. heck if you are in a good line of site a car antenna will work....
> I have also used rabit ears (Powered set top set) with success on the other side of the house (Again no line of site and stil got a 80% quality with the rabit ears)
> 
> Anyway LOTS of myths about all that, that are simply not true


Really.... so what are you telling me? if i hook my cable into the antenna port of my 622 i will get the HD locals?? or if i plug it into the back of my hd tvs i will get them without a box?

you see i was under the assumption that hd-tv is digital thus an analog antenna would be useless.

so tell me exactly what your father does to get these hd channels from his 9.95 analog only tier from cable and i will try it.


----------



## Cappyxavs

crookedcarrot said:


> For me this isn't JUST about Sci-fi and USA.
> 
> Its about Cartoon Network, Disney, FX, Spike TV, MGM, MTV, Nick, three Showtime channels, FIVE Starz channels, two HBO channels, Toon Disney, VH1.
> 
> I'm talking about selection. Would I watch half of these channels? Maybe not. But I joined Dish because they were the leader in HD. I like Dish as a company and I like their hardware. But they are slipping now, and as far as I or anyone else can tell, they're not going to be able to catch up very soon, especially if they can't get TWO channels going. Meanwhile DirectTV seems to be able to start them with ease.
> 
> I've been very patient with Dish and will continue to do so but they need to do something fast.


yes this is where i am having an issue as well. there are a lot of great channels that D does have. right now it is 1131 and my 612's were suppose to be here between 8-12 so if they don't show at 12 i have the D site up and my order ready for submission. maybe this is an omen however this would be the second opointment E has missed and there will not be a third.

thinking about it some i love sunny in philadelphia and it would be great to have it in hd also multi sho time channels and cinnemax.

i'm starting to hope E don't show up.....


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> Really.... so what are you telling me? if i hook my cable into the antenna port of my 622 i will get the HD locals?? or if i plug it into the back of my hd tvs i will get them without a box?
> 
> you see i was under the assumption that hd-tv is digital thus an analog antenna would be useless.
> 
> so tell me exactly what your father does to get these hd channels from his 9.95 analog only tier from cable and i will try it.


Cable directly into the cable in on the TV....gets all the locals in HD.. (Thisa is assuming the cable company has it setup already.. they have till Feb 2009)

there is no such thing as a digital or analog antenna, they are just 
antenna's...they pick up a wavelength travling through the air and don't care WHAT is modulated on that wavelength

Some makers ADVERTISE a digital antenna, but thats just BS marketing...the object of an antenna is to collect as much signal as possible. And since ATSC signals are still modulated on a VHF/UHF carrier you are still getting the SAME signal...

I always hated antenna theory in my electronics classes..lol


----------



## crookedcarrot

Plus the new Star Wars TV show is on Spike TV from what I've heard (I could be wrong) and I'd like to see that on HD.


----------



## Cappyxavs

neowaxworks said:


> Cable directly into the cable in on the TV....gets all the locals in HD.. (Thisa is assuming the cable company has it setup already.. they have till Feb 2009)
> 
> there is no such thing as a digital or analog antenna, they are just
> antenna's...they pick up a wavelength travling through the air and don't care WHAT is modulated on that wavelength
> 
> Some makers ADVERTISE a digital antenna, but thats just BS marketing...the object of an antenna is to collect as much signal as possible. And since ATSC signals are still modulated on a VHF/UHF carrier you are still getting the SAME signal...
> 
> I always hated antenna theory in my electronics classes..lol


thanks!! i learned something new today and i will have to try this out!!!


----------



## Cappyxavs

well 12 noon came and went, i called E to find out what happened and apparently the tech just never showed today but no one ever called me. i cancelled the 612 install called direct tv ordered 3 hr21 units and a sd reciever and will be a new member of D as of Thursday and actually i feel satisfied that i have switched. this friday i will see bsg in HD and hopefully dd5.1 audio 

if all goes well thursday afternoon i will give charlie his walking papers!

wow for 12 months i have more channels at less money than charlie charged! after the 12months i'm still better off cost wise with D.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

killzone said:


> The other way of looking at this is that for each person here being vocal in their complaint, there are 1000 others who feel the same way but haven't bothered to complain.


That may be also possible as well... the main point here is that we really have no way of extrapolating the larger reality from these forums. Anyone who wants to call all the Dish subscribers and take a formal poll, feel free to post the full results 

It would be like if I went down to the mall and saw 5 kids hanging out making noise at one entrance. Then a little later I saw 5 other kids at another entrance. And then I saw another 5 inside hanging out, but maybe a couple of them were from one of the other groups but I can't tell for sure... So then I make a generalized assumption that the only people in or at the mall are kids. It is just as likely, without actually looking around, that there are no more kids as it is that there are more.

Also worth pointing out that many of us frequent other forums. I don't post on Satellite Guys or High Def Forums... but I do post on AVS Forums... and sometimes I'm involved in the same conversation there as I am here. So even if you bring all the online forums into play you have to take into account that many of us are the same folks having the same gripe there too... in which case, be careful not to count us more than once when tallying the griping.

I'm not saying we aren't important or that we don't have a gripe... but sometimes things just aren't as bad as we make them to be. Thus far I have not died or felt pain or lost any money for lack of a specific HD channel.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> ANALOGY MAN IS BACK!! LOL 3 of them this time...thats why i love ya man...
> 
> this is all NBC/Universals fault!!! HAd they left it on NBC we would be having this issue right now!!!


Actually, this is a valid argument/position to take even if you meant it in jest!

Networks that operate multiple channels tend to spread their content out to force cable/satellite to carry them AND to entice subscribers to want them. NBC moved one of their Law & Order shows this season to USA... but then during the writers' strike they aired them again as "new" on NBC to fill time.

NBC has shown episodes of BSG, Psych, and Monk from time to time (or maybe ABC picked up Monk, I can't remember)... but by and large they create shows for their other owned networks to force things.

UniversalHD is another example. Why is it showing BSG from last season instead of running the current one? Instead of showing old Monk, BSG, etc... UniversalHD could air these shows in HD a couple of days after the SciFi premier... but instead the bandwidth is used to show older reruns and force customers to demand USAHD and SciFiHD for the new airings.

ESPN similarly forced ESPN2HD on us a while back. There were many nights when an HD game was on ESPN2HD while SD poker was on ESPNHD! They could have aired all the HD content at that time on ESPNHD so we weren't forced to ask for ESPN2HD when it wasn't necessary... but they wanted to force the channel out before it was ready (and by ready I mean before it had enough HD to warrant its own channel).

So... when people are quick to blame Charlie for all the world's troubles... I wonder why people aren't equally willing to consider all the other factors. Now, if someone came in here and had proof that Charlie had said something definitive, then we can gripe about that... but "griping at straws" isn't productive griping


----------



## James Long

killzone said:


> The other way of looking at this is that for each person here being vocal in their complaint, there are 1000 others who feel the same way but haven't bothered to complain.


Think of this thread as a checkbox on a form ... "I have a complaint about the lack of new HD" ... with a headline that attracts people who most likely have that complaint. A thread like this practically _encourages_ people to check off that checkbox while they are looking around the forums. There is no checkbox for "I'm OK with the situation" ... but there have been a lot of write in votes for accepting what DISH is doing.

After reading forums for a while an observant reader will notice that there are more complaints about anything than praise. People generally don't make posts and start threads when everything is going fine ... they speak up when they see a problem or in response to a problem another has seen.

Pick your favorite HD channel ... one that you have on your system that has really satisfied you and you have truly enjoyed having available. Do you see threads praising that channel? Regardless of how good that channel is you're not likely to see praise threads unless something really spectacular happens ... such as a shuttle launch on HDNet or a special program on one of the Discovery channels. And when those threads do start they generally have a couple of meto posts ("yeah, that was a great show and that is a great channel") and the thread dies. No conflict, no interest.

I believe that it would be fair to say that _if_ you're guessing that every one complaining person (not complaining post, but complaining person) there are 1,000 more that feel the same way that you need to multiply every "defending" person by 10,000 or 100,000. Just on the basis of the above observation that people are more likely to complain than complement - especially in a thread _designed_ to attract complaints.

As HDMe noted ... arguments across the forums are often the same people posting the same words in multiple places. Unhappy people trying (in vain?) to make their voice heard. We even have people creating multiple accounts to complain in multiple "voices" (the mods to our best to kill off the duplicates).

There is no science to translating noise on forums into real accurate statistics - even a poll would be extremely biased because we're not getting a representative sample of ALL DISH Network users - we're only getting people interested enough in the issues to come find a satellite site to read who have had some reason to create an account. Perhaps a receiver or service question that they needed answered at some point in the past or something else on their mind that led them to register. Or perhaps they were bored, like satellite and decided to start talking about it. Perhaps they are not DISH Network subscribers at all.

Certainly NOT a description of all 13 million DISH Network customers. Just one narrow subset. It would be like taking a political poll between the two leading Democrat candidates, secretly limiting responses to children under 18, allowing Republican children to vote and calling it a definitive answer on who would be the best candidate for the fall. The subset is not representative.


----------



## Ressurrector

The "No HD" Gripe rant 04-05-08 


The thread isn't big enough so lets add it a entry today because we all love echostar so much. 


Goodness where do we start? The No Scifi or UsaHD thing has been done till we are all SICK. The fact there been no new national HD channels in forever has YET again been done till were sick. We could talk about how there satelite didn't make it to orbit and now we DEFINATELY will not have new HD till christmas 2008........BUT the satelite thing is an act of god people. No more so then the people of New Orleans were responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Actually when Dish said they were the "HD leader" they in fact were for awhile I am told. It just seems if your getting in the game NOW that Direct tv is holding all the cards cause there ahead now. And people PLEASE stop refering to Direct tv as D*. Who the hell came up with that **** here anyways? E*= Echostar I can see..... but D* "Direct star"????? lmfao....... call it "Dave" people Charlie is Dish and Dave is Direct.....(it's a CEO thing)...anyways........................ I wonder what if any valid reasons there are now for not giving us new HD channels. Ok so your satelite failed and crashed and burned or whatever. Tide over your base by giving them a FEW new channels by MAKING ROOM. Killing PPV channels , whatever...... since the base is gonna have to obviously wait a really long time now then why not give them a small bite to temporarily stop their hunger till supper time? IS IT THAT HARD?????????? come on now...................... I personally don't care anymore........I am like a caged lion at the zoo whose lifeless apathetic eyes watch as the keepers bring their daily regimen of sinthetic VOOM channels for me to feed on that day. As I feed people on the "otherside" of the fence point and laugh and whisper things SUCH AS usa HD scifi HD cnn HD mtv HD.............Sometimes I wanna leap this fence and and travel to the "otherside" But what if I tried and I failed trying to jump the fence????? what would the repercuscions be????? If I made it to the otherside would I REALLY enjoy it more then where I am now? ah screw the poetic analogy BUT you people know wtf I meant. Okay I am done. Cause as I say the lion is losing his fight over this and VOOM is strangely starting to look tasty.........................


----------



## The Sandman

Just don't forget that this 'noise' exists on both sides. The chronic complainers and the zealous fanboys.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I love this thread. I check here to see if/when a New HD channel will be coming online. Catching up on things as I have been gone for a while, but its funny to read the posts that people are coming with, same old rehash just different people. 
I know how easy it is to get caught up in the HD Channel #'s, I was all caught up in it as well, listing what channels I wanted/Demanding, I started to notice my list of current channels and channels that aren't HD yet, was different than many others, and the reason I wanted certain Channels was usually narrowly focused on just a show or two if I was lucky.

I would LOVE to have Sci-Fi, but once BSG is over this year, I don't watch the Channel that much anymore, and after this season of BSG would I really care about Sci-Fi channel anymore? I haven't been overly impressed with the HD content with BSG on Universal HD as it is, but maybe this season being the final one, they will do more the show.
I play a PBEM game on a Sci-Fi site, and with over 1000 players on the site, all sci-fi people, and out of 980 votes, only 15 were interested in the Sci-Fi Channel in HD.
I think the main issue should be, Channels that are offering HD CONTENT that we are missing vs upscaled stretch-o-vision channels.


----------



## TBoneit

jacmyoung said:


> I have not heard anyone (there are a lot of them) who recently switched from E* to D* complained about their inferior D* HDDVR's yet.


From This set of messages about 'Both HR20s just went to 'No DVR service' : http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1537156#post1537156

"both of mine went down. Lost criminal mines and csi-ny. Finally got everything working. Both programs showed recorded, but when I went to watch, cm froze at 29 minutes and I had to re-boot. Tried it again and same thing happened. Deleted on third try. Csi-ny would start and go to gray screen. Deleted it as it had worst programs. Now I missed both programs which are two of my favorites. DTV should plan better than starting an upgrade in the evening."

And so many others. It seems like everybody needs something to complain about.



neowaxworks said:


> I 100% disagree...I dont' know ANYONE in person thats not complaining about the sci-fi issue... it is a MUCH larger issue than you guys want to represent...
> Yes the forums are a small representation, but just like polling in elections.. you can see the larger picture from a small sampling....
> 
> Here is an even better picture... look at the sheer numbers of people on forums complaining..
> Then figure that dish doesn't have that many HD subs as compared to non hd subs...that makes the number complaing even larger in the bigger picture


True you don't know me. However I and others like myself haven't tuned into Sci-Fi or USA or many of he other requested channels in years and not because of lack of HD, lack of interesting content is more like it.


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## GrumpyBear

It doesn't take to much searching to find, E* people that have moved over to D* that aren't happy with thier DVR features. Most of the D* wishlist for their DVR's are already included on E* DVR's.

I wonder if anybody has any insight on the ATT and E* talks. I wonder if that has anything to do with slow movement of things?


----------



## Cappyxavs

GrumpyBear said:


> I would LOVE to have Sci-Fi, but once BSG is over this year, I don't watch the Channel that much anymore, and after this season of BSG would I really care about Sci-Fi channel anymore?


I thought the same thing however some one posted a comment listing other shows like flash, sga, eureka and my most favorite show will be returning 4/18 Doctor who. while the HD thing is not enough to wooo me if the channel features the DD5.1 audio to go with that HD then i'm sold.

any way i am making the switch this week to D just thought about it and not only is D ahead they just have every thing and st-sfn if i want it. the premies got me as well. my wife loves sho-time and D has multi channels in HD. when the free 3 month trial ends we will keep at least sho and max.

DR who was a major selling point for me and unlike BSG it's not over this season.

actualy i'm hoping for BBC-HD


----------



## GrumpyBear

Cappyxavs said:


> I thought the same thing however some one posted a comment listing other shows like flash, sga, eureka and my most favorite show will be returning 4/18 Doctor who. while the HD thing is not enough to wooo me if the channel features the DD5.1 audio to go with that HD then i'm sold.
> 
> any way i am making the switch this week to D just thought about it and not only is D ahead they just have every thing and st-sfn if i want it. the premies got me as well. my wife loves sho-time and D has multi channels in HD. when the free 3 month trial ends we will keep at least sho and max.
> 
> DR who was a major selling point for me and unlike BSG it's not over this season.
> 
> actualy i'm hoping for BBC-HD


I watch Dr Who on BBC and would LOVE BBC-HD and SKY-HD for sports, but I don't see anybody talking about bringing those on. 
Enjoy all your HD, and if I can figure out away to get D* to do swap, I may join you in August when Football Season Starts. Right now that is my biggest issue. I don't have loyalty to either of them, its features, and I channel surf and like to jump between football games and the idea of losing one channel while jumping to another to check scores isn't what I want. So I will live with a less HD, so I can have my 2 dual tuners with 1hr buffers. Maybe as more channels have more HD content, features may become less important, but still not enough HD content for me to worry about. 
Love the grips, but I think we should focus more on getting the Show makers to produce MORE HD content, before we worry that much about SD upconverted Stretch-o-Vision #'s


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## HobbyTalk

neowaxworks said:


> And I am sure there is also a large % that doesn't care one way or the other.. thats why I say you can't trivialize it... it COULD be split 50/50..


Or it could be 99% don't care and 1% does. Fact is, you nor anyone else knows the numbers.


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## phrelin

This is The "No HD" Gripe Thread.

From Dictionary.com: 
Gripe - to complain naggingly or constantly; grumble.
Compain - to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault.

I believe this thread was created because someone knew that the lack of HD from Dish would overwhelm the whole Board if there wasn't a place to direct the "gripes." That's because there are few, if any, Dish customers who would be upset with Dish over this issue.

That last comment is sarcasm.


----------



## neowaxworks

phrelin said:
 

> This is The "No HD" Gripe Thread.
> 
> From Dictionary.com:
> Gripe - to complain naggingly or constantly; grumble.
> Compain - to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault.
> 
> I believe this thread was created because someone knew that the lack of HD from Dish would overwhelm the whole Board if there wasn't a place to direct the "gripes." That's because there are few, if any, Dish customers who would be upset with Dish over this issue.
> 
> That last comment is sarcasm.


lol.. and dang funny too!!!
I've seen like 3 posters Happy("people complaining are the minority" and "don't blame dish")...about 3 upset but don't mind waiting and the rest seem to be using the thread for what it was intended....


----------



## Richard King

Personally, I couldn't care less if they add SciFi and/or USA in HD. But then, I guess that's off topic since it's not a gripe. I've stated it before that if a service is available in SD I would rather have it remain in SD if it would mean deleting an HD only service or not being able to add an HD only service to add an HD feed of an existing SD service. No gripes here at all.

Edit.... now that HGTV and Food HD have gone stretch o vision, they can feel free to drop those HD channels and just keep the SD feeds.


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## GrumpyBear

This thread is VERY useful. If nothing else it lets people vent. I think its funny watching new people complain about the same ol stuff like its brand new. December time Frame, we had to many threads going on to deal with this. Lots of us posted to VENT and GRIP on way to many threads.


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## FogCutter

GrumpyBear said:


> It doesn't take to much searching to find, E* people that have moved over to D* that aren't happy with thier DVR features. Most of the D* wishlist for their DVR's are already included on E* DVR's.
> 
> I wonder if anybody has any insight on the ATT and E* talks. I wonder if that has anything to do with slow movement of things?


That's exactly why I'm staying put. I rely on that functionality and I can amuse myself with BluRay while they work the programming out. Had the quote all ready to go to switch, but so many complaints about the hardware stopped the show.

Why can't this be a perfect world?


----------



## phrelin

Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world. I was all set to consider adding DirecTV to my system - then I started browsing the D* threads. I'm too old to have to deal with two sets of regular software updates. As it is, I had to replace my wife's computer requiring me to start learning Vista. Yep, too old.:eek2:


----------



## GrumpyBear

Granted in a Perfect world, people would still grip, about everything being perfect. :lol:


----------



## lparsons21

GrumpyBear said:


> It doesn't take to much searching to find, E* people that have moved over to D* that aren't happy with thier DVR features. Most of the D* wishlist for their DVR's are already included on E* DVR's.
> 
> I wonder if anybody has any insight on the ATT and E* talks. I wonder if that has anything to do with slow movement of things?


That is true, I'm one of them. I don't use PIP or have a 2nd TV so those things missing are not a big deal to me. Most of the rest is just different ways of doing the same thing.

My biggest gripe is that they are very slow to respond to remote changes. Irritating as hell.

But I knew all of that before I made the move, well not the dog slow part, and wanted the additional HD programming now. I haven't been disappointed.

Until I start watching the DVR more than the TV programs, it won't be an issue except to grumble now and then.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Cappyxavs said:


> fw updtaes are a good things it allows for an eventual fix to a device that in the past would just have the next revision released and you would have to buy it all over again.
> 
> Of course you are still paying for it, just in smaller bits that is hidden in the monthly fee. Since that fee is hidden, as far as we know, we might come out ahead if it was optional just purchase new versions of the software every couple of years.
> 
> I've had E* for 9 months or so and have been through maybe 6 software upgrades. I can tell little to no improvement in the performance of my 622. Now if I could save $10 a month to stop getting updates and just purchase the latest software version every 2 years, I very well may come out ahead.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HobbyTalk said:


> Cappyxavs said:
> 
> 
> 
> fw updtaes are a good things it allows for an eventual fix to a device that in the past would just have the next revision released and you would have to buy it all over again.
> 
> Of course you are still paying for it, just in smaller bits that is hidden in the monthly fee. Since that fee is hidden, as far as we know, we might come out ahead if it was optional just purchase new versions of the software every couple of years.
> 
> I've had E* for 9 months or so and have been through maybe 6 software upgrades. I can tell little to no improvement in the performance of my 622. Now if I could save $10 a month to stop getting updates and just purchase the latest software version every 2 years, I very well may come out ahead.
> 
> 
> 
> actualy i never pay attention to the updates i just notice when things have significantly changed. here is what has been a positive change per 622:
> >improved menu system
> >improved menu access selection. if you did not notice you can go into options now and set your menu so if you push the guide button twice you get to select which menu you want rather than that annoying auto switch feature.
Click to expand...


----------



## HobbyTalk

Cappyxavs said:


> actualy i never pay attention to the updates i just notice when things have significantly changed. here is what has been a positive change per 622:
> >improved menu system
> >improved menu access selection. if you did not notice you can go into options now and set your menu so if you push the guide button twice you get to select which menu you want rather than that annoying auto switch feature.


So, you are saying that if the built in costs of the updates is $10.00 per month that it is worth the few extra "features" that you just happen to notice? Why shouldn't we have the option to not pay that monthly fee and only buy updates when we want them? If you've had E* for 12 months, those few featurs that you've noticed have cost you $120.

If the latest versions of E* software does indeed get around TiVo patent, then it easily could be worth that $10 per month that Tivo may have asked each and everyone one of us to pay to use that patent. Or how many peope would gladly pay $10 per month if their 622/722 worked exactly like a TiVo?

Let's compare it to software. MS could charge $10 per month to use Office and updates are automatically pushed out to you. They infact proposed to do that but people rebelled against the idea. You would never have to buy a new version of office again. I still Office '95 which is now 12 years old. If the monthly cost was $10/month, it would have cost me $1440.00 over those 12 years for updates that I don't care about.

BTW, I dont use a favorites menu so that "feature" is pretty much useless to me.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HobbyTalk said:


> So, you are saying that if the built in costs of the updates is $10.00 per month that it is worth the few extra "features"


that would be assuming there was a set price on fw updates. my ps3 and pc have been paid for and they still get fw updates at no extra cost.

whos to say that E wouldn't just quit the fw updates but keep your cost the same and blame it on the cost needed for new hd upgrades. don't forget E has a dead bird in the sky and someone is going to have to pay for it and it certainly won't be them alone. that bird was suppose to deliver a expanded HD tier now all it does is decay and burn up but still the money was spent and it will have to be made up by the subscribers. this was another factor in my decision to finally leave charlie they are simply not going in a desirable direction.

bottom line for me i want the fw upgrades as soon as they are ready to upload.


----------



## James Long

neowaxworks said:


> lol.. and dang funny too!!!
> I've seen like 3 posters Happy("people complaining are the minority" and "don't blame dish")...about 3 upset but don't mind waiting and the rest seem to be using the thread for what it was intended....


I see that some need glasses.  But the thread is long enough that I can understand where one can see what they want.



phrelin said:


> From Dictionary.com:
> Gripe - to complain naggingly or constantly; grumble.
> Compain - to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault.


I was wondering who would and how long it would take for a dictionary post to hit the thread ... I got the who wrong and was only off by a couple days (late, BTW). :lol:



> I believe this thread was created because someone knew that the lack of HD from Dish would overwhelm the whole Board if there wasn't a place to direct the "gripes." That's because there are few, if any, Dish customers who would be upset with Dish over this issue.


I could have used the word "complaint" instead of "gripe" when I created the thread ... but the level of "complaint" had reached the "gripe" stage. The correct word was chosen.

This thread was created for all complaints and gripes related to the "No HD" issue. As noted previously, all posts must still be within the rules of the forum - but we'd like to keep the forum clear of every thread becoming a gripe (or complaint) thread. There is too much other information to share via DBSTalk than the one issue of "No HD". We've instituted this limit on other topics as well (on the D* side all "DLB" discussion is relegated to one open thread and in the OT "global warming" discussion has been given a complete rest).

DBSTalk is about so much more than gripes and complaints about this one issue. We'd like to encourage you to express your gripes and complaints in a professional manner. The alternative to this thread is simply fully enforcing our forum rules about repeated rants and ending the discussion. Consider this thread a gift --- but try not to break it!

Thanks ... now :backtotop ...


----------



## 30middle

While i could rant about the lack of HD, the lack of communication of new HD, my lack of Local HD's, and many other HD related issues i however have and non-HD related rant which is why in the world does everyone think its cool to list every piece of electronic equipment in their house including memory, software revision and hdmi settings?


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## Cappyxavs

cool i 'll start...

why don't charlie trade one or two of those ppv hd channels up for sci-fi or bbc hd?

i always got a laugh out of charlie including the five hd-ppv channels as counting towards any hd tier:hurah: . And the E rep stated to me that D exagerates about thier HD content????


----------



## neowaxworks

Cappyxavs said:


> cool i 'll start...
> 
> why don't charlie trade one or two of those ppv hd channels up for sci-fi or bbc hd?
> 
> i always got a laugh out of charlie including the five hd-ppv channels as counting towards any hd tier:hurah: . And the E rep stated to me that D exagerates about thier HD content????


they already did, they just never turned on sci-fi or usa


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## James Long

30middle said:


> ... why in the world does everyone think its cool to list every piece of electronic equipment in their house including memory, software revision and hdmi settings?


In some forums, we ask them to. It is easier to help people with their systems if you know what their system is.

Not to say that the messages should not be done with a small font (size=1 is nice) or have the signature OFF on posts where the details are not needed. Perhaps it is time for a moderator crack down on large signatures?



neowaxworks said:


> they already did, they just never turned on sci-fi or usa


DISH moved the two HD PPVs to 129° where people without a 129° dish cannot see them. They still have 5 PPVs on 110° and seven overall (although there were nine total before DISH killed off a couple last year).


----------



## Cappyxavs

30middle said:


> why in the world does everyone think its cool to list every piece of electronic equipment in their house including memory, software revision and hdmi settings?


in the memeber user section *the option should be added to shut off the ability to see signatures.* this would be a great help for those not interested in a quick reference for users equipment to provide help.

also the ability to not see member avitars should be added as they are personal pictures and may be offensive or irratating to some.

last the ability to not see graphics and smilies and harmfull word editing options.

so i guess my gripe is there is not enough user options in the user cp.


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## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> DISH moved the two HD PPVs to 129° where people without a 129° dish cannot see them. They still have 5 PPVs on 110° and seven overall (although there were nine total before DISH killed off a couple last year).


am i correct in assuming that for D only one dish is ever needed and for E hd may require up to three dishes in some cases?

right now i'm still with e when i added HD and the 622 it required a second dish. if this trend continues you may end up with several dish each with a letter on them that would spell out "charlie"


----------



## James Long

Cappyxavs said:


> in the memeber user section *the option should be added to shut off the ability to see signatures.* this would be a great help for those not interested in a quick reference for users equipment to provide help.
> 
> also the ability to not see member avitars should be added as well as they are personal pictures and may be offensive or irratating to some.
> 
> last the ability to not see graphics and smilies and harmfull word editing options.
> 
> so i guess my gripe is there is not enough user options in the user cp.


Click http://www.dbstalk.com/profile.php?do=editoptions

Go down to "Thread Display Options" ...


> Visible Post Elements
> You have the option to show or hide various elements of messages, which may be of use to users on slow internet connections, or who want to remove extraneous clutter from posts.
> []Show Signatures
> []Show Avatars
> []Show Images (including attached images and images in


----------



## James Long

Cappyxavs said:


> am i correct in assuming that for D only one dish is ever needed and for E hd may require up to three dishes in some cases?


One large dish requiring professional installation (or a ton of patience) is required if you want DirecTV HD ... for SD only you can get by with a Dish1000.2 sized "Phase III" dish.

DISH made that mistake with the SuperDish and is now getting away from that size of dish setup. A normal customer should be able to get by on one dish (one of the Dish 1000 variety) unless they need 61.5° for locals in the Eastern US. If you want something special (like international channels) that one dish gets a little bigger (the Plus dishes). Some have installed second dishes for 129° because of signal problems.



> right now i'm still with e when i added HD and the 622 it required a second dish. if this trend continues you may end up with several dish each with a letter on them that would spell out "charlie"


The trend will reverse itself ... and already is to a certain extent. Two dishes should be enough for anyone at the moment - and once DISH is able to finish getting 61.5° and 77° set up (apparently later this year) a one dish solution may return.

Most customers already only need one dish.


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> Click http://www.dbstalk.com/profile.php?do=editoptions
> 
> Go down to "Thread Display Options" ...


Great!! would you please pass that info to 30middle as he may not understand those settings and would be of great use to him.

and thanks for your post i did not realize i had the font size so much i reduced it and it looks far more professional.

on that hd dish from D how big?
i just placed an order with D and they are going to be instaling a 5LNB dish.


----------



## lparsons21

Cappyxavs said:


> on that hd dish from D how big?
> i just placed an order with D and they are going to be instaling a 5LNB dish.


It is a tad bigger, not huge as implied. And the 5 LNBs look like 3 LNBs. One advantage is slightly less rain fade. I used to have problems with 129 with any kind of rain as the signal was very weak compared to the rest of the birds.


----------



## calgary2800

I live in seattle and dish had to put in 2 dishes for me to have HD service. Looks very ugly.


----------



## texaswolf

> We could talk about how there satelite didn't make it to orbit and now we DEFINATELY will not have new HD till christmas 2008........BUT the satelite thing is an act of god people. No more so then the people of New Orleans were responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Actually when Dish said they were the "HD leader" they in fact were for awhile I am told. It just seems if your getting in the game NOW that Direct tv is holding all the cards cause there ahead now.


Huh?

Man made the satellite, and launched it, if there was an error...more than likely it was a human error. Hurricanes are a God/nature thing...not man made...not sure of what you are trying to compare here. Also....Dish is still calling themselves the HD leader as of today...not "last years HD leader"...


----------



## texaswolf

30middle said:


> While i could rant about the lack of HD, the lack of communication of new HD, my lack of Local HD's, and many other HD related issues i however have and non-HD related rant which is why in the world does everyone think its cool to list every piece of electronic equipment in their house including memory, software revision and hdmi settings?


cause we are all tech geeks...probably...same reason guys in the gym compare muscles, or motorheads put every part manufacturer sticker on their car...i guess


----------



## texaswolf

crookedcarrot said:


> For me this isn't JUST about Sci-fi and USA.
> 
> Its about Cartoon Network, Disney, FX, Spike TV, MGM, MTV, Nick, three Showtime channels, FIVE Starz channels, two HBO channels, Toon Disney, VH1.
> 
> I'm talking about selection. Would I watch half of these channels? Maybe not. But I joined Dish because they were the leader in HD. I like Dish as a company and I like their hardware. But they are slipping now, and as far as I or anyone else can tell, they're not going to be able to catch up very soon, especially if they can't get TWO channels going. Meanwhile DirectTV seems to be able to start them with ease.
> 
> I've been very patient with Dish and will continue to do so but they need to do something fast.


They just launched a sat. and are having some problems with it...i understand your frustration, i am too, but they are trying to get things rolling...just a matter of if you feel you want to hold out long enough or not.


----------



## Cappyxavs

texaswolf said:


> They just launched a sat. and are having some problems with it...i understand your frustration, i am too, but they are trying to get things rolling...just a matter of if you feel you want to hold out long enough or not.


it wasn't this for me it was their lack of service to get my dvrs here with two missed appointments and lately they just seem to have that old macintosh were so great attitude. that coupled with the fact that D is actually less money for more product even after the 12 month thing is what finaly did it for me. If charlie made his appointment on sat i would be staying for another 24 months. but charlie just picked the wrong time to slack off and the channel i always defend was boaring me to tears that dayt with planet of the ape crap all darn day along with the dumbest movies you ever did see.


----------



## phrelin

texaswolf said:


> They just launched a sat. and are having some problems with it...i understand your frustration, i am too, but they are trying to get things rolling...just a matter of if you feel you want to hold out long enough or not.


Let's don't get confused here. The satellite launch problem appears to have no bearing on the lack of "launching" national HD's in the period since December.

The two channels, SciFiHD and USAHD, supposedly have been uplinked since December 5, 2007, to E8 at 110° on the same transponders as some HDPPV channels.

That's why I don't give credibility to any "technical problem" excuse unless they've been totally ignoring the uplink which would only be true if they have no intention of turning it on any time soon. If they have no intention of turning it on any time soon, the issue is a "where to put the money" choice by Charlie.

And to further prevent confusion, I for one am no longer frustrated, I'm angry. The issue for me is the the last Charlie Chat announcing new HD soon and featuring a star of SciFi's Battlestar Galactica (the new season of which premiered Friday night in SD on Dish and HD on DirecTV and Comcast).

People may be "frustrated" about the lack of SpeedHD, a channel which was not on the list shown on the Charlie Chat nor had a show nearing a new season premier featured. I'm angry.

Some may think my anger is irrational, but I find that whole scenario weird and completely misleading. _It appears to me_ to have been an attempt to confuse the few subscribers who are even aware of Charlie Chats. Sorry Charlie, but Dish Network doesn't fit into my tuna can of corporations treating its customers with honesty.


----------



## texaswolf

phrelin said:


> Let's don't get confused here. The satellite launch problem appears to have no bearing on the lack of "launching" national HD's in the period since December.
> 
> The two channels, SciFiHD and USAHD, supposedly have been uplinked since December 5, 2007, to E8 at 110° on the same transponders as some HDPPV channels.
> 
> That's why I don't give credibility to any "technical problem" excuse unless they've been totally ignoring the uplink which would only be true if they have no intention of turning it on any time soon. If they have no intention of turning it on any time soon, the issue is a "where to put the money" choice by Charlie.
> 
> And to further prevent confusion, I for one am no longer frustrated, I'm angry. The issue for me is the the last Charlie Chat announcing new HD soon and featuring a star of SciFi's Battlestar Galactica (the new season of which premiered Friday night in SD on Dish and HD on DirecTV and Comcast).
> 
> People may be "frustrated" about the lack of SpeedHD, a channel which was not on the list shown on the Charlie Chat nor had a show nearing a new season premier featured. I'm angry.
> 
> Some may think my anger is irrational, but I find that whole scenario weird and completely misleading. _It appears to me_ to have been an attempt to confuse the few subscribers who are even aware of Charlie Chats. Sorry Charlie, but Dish Network doesn't fit into my tuna can of corporations treating its customers with honesty.


Oh i know man, i'm right there with you and the SciFI and USA issue, i was referring to crooked mentioning the other channels:



> Originally Posted by crookedcarrot View Post
> For me this isn't JUST about Sci-fi and USA.
> 
> Its about Cartoon Network, Disney, FX, Spike TV, MGM, MTV, Nick, three Showtime channels, FIVE Starz channels, two HBO channels, Toon Disney, VH1.
> 
> I'm talking about selection. Would I watch half of these channels? Maybe not. But I joined Dish because they were the leader in HD. I like Dish as a company and I like their hardware. But they are slipping now, and as far as I or anyone else can tell, they're not going to be able to catch up very soon, especially if they can't get TWO channels going. Meanwhile DirectTV seems to be able to start them with ease.
> 
> I've been very patient with Dish and will continue to do so but they need to do something fast.


Scifi and USA should have been lit up by now, but the rest of those he mentioned aren't going anywhere until theres a new sat.


----------



## neowaxworks

texaswolf said:


> Oh i know man, i'm right there with you and the SciFI and USA issue, i was referring to crooked mentioning the other channels:
> 
> Scifi and USA should have been lit up by now, but the rest of those he mentioned aren't going anywhere until theres a new sat.


MGM is uplinked....it's one of the "5" newer ones uplinked that Dish will try to pass off as nationals...


----------



## phrelin

neowaxworks said:


> MGM is uplinked....it's one of the "5" newer ones uplinked that Dish will try to pass off as nationals...


Yeah, MGMHD is now considered a "national."

But the MGMHD schedule doesn't add much to the Dish offering since through Dish we can get 10 HD channels that schedule alot of movies including Showtime, Starz, Cinemax, HBO, HDNetMovies, Universal HD, VOOM World Cinema, VOOM Filmfest, VOOM Monster, and VOOM Kungfu.

MGMHD wouldn't be bad if they showed MGM TV programming as well as movies, like Universal HD does. Their catalog of tv shows appearing since 1986 contains Fame (1982-1987, 2003), Kids Incorporated (1984-1993), The Twilight Zone (1985-1989), Sea Hunt (1987-1988), thirtysomething (1987-1991), In the Heat of the Night (1988-1994), Knightwatch (1988-1989), The Young Riders (1989-1992), Dark Shadows (1991), James Bond Jr. (1991-1992), Mother Goose & Grimm (1992), Nightmare Café (1992), The Pink Panther (1993), Thunder in Paradise (1994), The Outer Limits (1995-2002), All Dogs Go to Heaven: The Series (1996-1999), Poltergeist: The Legacy (1996-1999), Dead Man's Gun (1997-1999), Fame L.A. (1997-1998), Stargate SG-1 (1997-2007), The Lionhearts (1998), The Magnificent Seven (1998-2000), RoboCop: Alpha Commando (1998), Sex Wars (2000), Jeremiah (2002-2004), She Spies (2002-2004), Chappelle's Show (2003-Present), Dead Like Me (2003-2005), Animal Atlas (2004-2006), Stargate: Atlantis (2004-Present), Barbershop: The Series (2005), Safari Tracks (2005-2006), and American Gladiators (2008-present). The "before 1986" list can be found here.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Speaking of LACK of HD, what about Lack of sports packages? Why wont Dish allow you get multiple RSN's? I mean that is HD content DISH has now, and I am willing to pay for, but they wont let me have it! Why is this? It can't be illegal as Direct allows you to do this?


----------



## Cappyxavs

GrumpyBear said:


> Speaking of LACK of HD, what about Lack of sports packages? Why wont Dish allow you get multiple RSN's? I mean that is HD content DISH has now, and I am willing to pay for, but they wont let me have it! Why is this? It can't be illegal as Direct allows you to do this?


i inquired about this about a year ago or so. E said that the NFL and MLB wanted to be proprietary on D. thus E was going to launch a massive HD attack and i guess that has fizzled out as well. Now D has the RSP's and more HD go figure????
Charlie the Tuna is really floundering on this


----------



## James Long

GrumpyBear said:


> Speaking of LACK of HD, what about Lack of sports packages? Why wont Dish allow you get multiple RSN's?


You can ...

Simply get AT100 Plus or higher, HD Essentials and add the Multi-Sports Package for $5.99.

Now if you're complaining about DISH's decision not to offer MultiSports with AT100 or the standalone HD package that is another issue.


----------



## GrumpyBear

James Long said:


> You can ...
> 
> Simply get AT100 Plus or higher, HD Essentials and add the Multi-Sports Package for $5.99.
> 
> Now if you're complaining about DISH's decision not to offer MultiSports with AT100 or the standalone HD package that is another issue.


I am not sure we are talking about the samething. I live in San Diego and can only get FoxW, I can't get FoxNW or anyother RSN, other than FoxW. These are all in HD, and I am very willing to pay for multiple RSN's, not just the one, in my local region. Some of Grew up in one area, live in another area, but far more Loyal to were we grew up.


----------



## James Long

There are blackout restrictions on _ALL_ RSNs ... blame the professional sports involved for that. If the RSN only holds the rights to broadcast a specific event to a specific area they cannot broadcast outside that area. Even via DirecTV.

The Multi-Sport package allows you to get every RSN in the country (with only a couple of exceptions). But it is subject to blackouts. The local RSN only has rights to professional sports within their home area. If you don't live there, you don't get the games.

What DirecTV has for football and baseball is a package of channels offered by the leagues themselves. The NFL and MLB have decided to exclude DISH from being able to offer those special packages. There was a chance for DISH getting the packages, but the prices were just too high.

Bottom Line: You CAN get FoxNW ... for only $5.99 with Multi-Sport (assuming you have AT100+ or above). But I would not expect to see any professional sports on FoxNW if you live outside the respective territories.


----------



## 0pusX

James Long said:


> You can ...
> 
> Simply get AT100 Plus or higher, HD Essentials and add the Multi-Sports Package for $5.99.
> 
> Now if you're complaining about DISH's decision not to offer MultiSports with AT100 or the standalone HD package that is another issue.


So since I live in Michigan, I could order the multi sport package and then I should be able to watch Atlanta Braves games on Fox Sports South????


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> What DirecTV has for football and baseball is a package of channels offered by the leagues themselves. The NFL and MLB have decided to exclude DISH from being able to offer those special packages. There was a chance for DISH getting the packages, but the prices were just too high.


I'm not sure I understand this logic. In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't.

"The NFL and MLB have decided to exclude DISH from getting their sports packages"? Huh?

MLB negotiated with DISH, and DISH passed because they thought the prices were too high (which is their right to do), just like you said. Apparently DirecTV and In Demand did not think the prices were too high.

But how does this allow you to make a statement that MLB decided to exclude DISH???


----------



## jackienopay

I guess I don't understand this process. I remember reading that December post about SciFi "uplinked" and I told my wife and we both were very happy. It is now April and still no SciFi. So waht exactly does uplinked mean and how do I watch an uplinked channel?


----------



## Ray_Clum

0pusX said:


> So since I live in Michigan, I could order the multi sport package and then I should be able to watch Atlanta Braves games on Fox Sports South????


Opus, fully read James's statement. Black out rules do apply.


----------



## GrumpyBear

James Long said:


> There are blackout restrictions on _ALL_ RSNs ... blame the professional sports involved for that. If the RSN only holds the rights to broadcast a specific event to a specific area they cannot broadcast outside that area. Even via DirecTV.
> 
> The Multi-Sport package allows you to get every RSN in the country (with only a couple of exceptions). But it is subject to blackouts. The local RSN only has rights to professional sports within their home area. If you don't live there, you don't get the games.
> 
> What DirecTV has for football and baseball is a package of channels offered by the leagues themselves. The NFL and MLB have decided to exclude DISH from being able to offer those special packages. There was a chance for DISH getting the packages, but the prices were just too high.
> 
> Bottom Line: You CAN get FoxNW ... for only $5.99 with Multi-Sport (assuming you have AT100+ or above). But I would not expect to see any professional sports on FoxNW if you live outside the respective territories.


I am not looking for Pro Sports, more interested in College, thats the main reason for wanting multiple RSN's, I have called on tihs several times, and will try again. But in the past I have been told that I live in San Diego and with Dish Americas Everything Package with Locals, Superstations and Setanta, the ONLY RSN's I can get are FoxW and FoxW2. Double checked online and will call shortly. I have called in the past, and have been told NO, but maybe things have changed.
This is what the dish site says I can get.
Regional Sports Network with America's Top 100 Plus and higher. 
Station 
Fox Sports West 2 
Fox Sports West


----------



## neowaxworks

Ray_Clum said:


> Opus, fully read James's statement. Black out rules do apply.


hmmm... my understanding of Blackout rules is that the channel will be blacked out IN your region if it is Available on a local market.
The whole purpose of the RSN's is to watch OUT of market games, stuff you can't get locally....thats how it was always advertised....


----------



## booger

Jersey Girl said:


> I'm not sure I understand this logic. In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't.
> 
> "The NFL and MLB have decided to exclude DISH from getting their sports packages"? Huh?


It was my understanding that Charlie didn't like the price/cost or just didn't think it was a good deal. Not only does Direct offer the NFL Sunday Ticket but Bell ExpressVu in Canada also offers it.

I do remember reading somewhere that Direct has yet to make a profit on Sunday Ticket. Don't hold me to this though.


----------



## aloishus27

neowaxworks said:


> hmmm... my understanding of Blackout rules is that the channel will be blacked out IN your region if it is Available on a local market.
> The whole purpose of the RSN's is to watch OUT of market games, stuff you can't get locally....thats how it was always advertised....


That is not true at all. If that were the case then the MLB, NHL, NBA and other sports packages would not exist. The blackout rules make it so that only those in the region that the RSN covers get the games they are to watch. Sunshine covers all of Florida however the Panthers are the team in my area but Sunshine covers both the Panthers and the Lightning. In my area the Lightning games are blacked out.


----------



## Jersey Girl

Ray_Clum said:


> Opus, fully read James's statement. Black out rules do apply.


A person in Michigan would not be able to watch Atlanta Braves games out of market, or any games out of market for that matter, unless they buy the MLB Extra Innings baseball package.

DISH chose not to offer MLB Extra Innings because they thought the price was too high, so you can only receive MLBEI through DirecTV or a cable provider that offers In Demand.


----------



## rey_1178

so then it makes no sense to have the multisports package if those games will always be blacked out. that is why i removed this from my programming years ago. and as far as the prices on these other sports packages like sunday nfl ticket or mlbei, we should be the ones deciding if the prices are too high or if we want to pay those prices. not charlie forcing everyone to accept what he decides we should or shouldn't have because at the end the price differences between E and D are not drastically different! But hey that's my opinion. :icon_hug:


----------



## neowaxworks

aloishus27 said:


> That is not true at all. If that were the case then the MLB, NHL, NBA and other sports packages would not exist. The blackout rules make it so that only those in the region that the RSN covers get the games they are to watch. Sunshine covers all of Florida however the Panthers are the team in my area but Sunshine covers both the Panthers and the Lightning. In my area the Lightning games are blacked out.


Ahhh gotcha..I don't sub to them cause I get what I want locally...so wasn't sure on it.....


----------



## puckwithahalo

> I really have no faith that they will EVER be a leader in anything


um...E* was the leader in HD for YEARS....and still is the leader in DVR services (there's a reason E*'s DVR's win awards year after year)


----------



## aloishus27

rey_1178 said:


> so then it makes no sense to have the multisports package if those games will always be blacked out. that is why i removed this from my programming years ago. and as far as the prices on these other sports packages like sunday nfl ticket or mlbei, we should be the ones deciding if the prices are too high or if we want to pay those prices. not charlie forcing everyone to accept what he decides we should or shouldn't have because at the end the price differences between E and D are not drastically different! But hey that's my opinion. :icon_hug:


Not that I have my head up Charlie's butt or anything but I have to side with him on this one. DirecTV subsidizes the cost of the packages by adding to the bill of all subscribers. Thats how they got the exclusive on NFL. Charlie didnt want to do that. If you want that package DirecTV is the way to go.


----------



## aloishus27

puckwithahalo said:


> um...E* was the leader in HD for YEARS....and still is the leader in DVR services (there's a reason E*'s DVR's win awards year after year)


Yeah and I guess the D* folks are really getting pissed over the fact that now D*'s guide is getting littered with banner ads.

What will they think of next. Sure am glad to be an E* customer.


----------



## 0pusX

Jersey Girl said:


> A person in Michigan would not be able to watch Atlanta Braves games out of market, or any games out of market for that matter, unless they buy the MLB Extra Innings baseball package.
> 
> DISH chose not to offer MLB Extra Innings because they thought the price was too high, so you can only receive MLBEI through DirecTV or a cable provider that offers In Demand.


i guess i just need to make the switch then.


----------



## GrumpyBear

If paying 5.99 gets me the extra RSN's, in time for College Football season, I will be REALLY happy with new HD services. I have noticed that Big10HD has disappeared off my system recently, not sure whats up with that, but no much on it in HD I am interested right now, but August/Sept will be here SOON


----------



## neowaxworks

Sci-Fi HD is active!..just got word..it has signal....


----------



## GrumpyBear

neowaxworks said:


> Sci-Fi HD is active!..just got word..it has signal....


When will we get it? Still shows SD for me.


----------



## neowaxworks

GrumpyBear said:


> When will we get it? Still shows SD for me.


IF the rumor is true..MAYBE wed/thur.... supposedly they are suppose to tunr some Nationals on that day... so here is hoping!!! 
at least, unlike before, the channel is actually running something... who knows maybe it isn't even scifi..but it is on that channel....


----------



## aloishus27

GrumpyBear said:


> If paying 5.99 gets me the extra RSN's, in time for College Football season, I will be REALLY happy with new HD services. I have noticed that Big10HD has disappeared off my system recently, not sure whats up with that, but no much on it in HD I am interested right now, but August/Sept will be here SOON


Big Ten was free until last month, now it is a subscription channel. This is BigTen's doing not Dish. Dish said this from the very beginning and is in a thread somewhere on this site. They gave it free to get you hooked, now its extra.
Sorry.


----------



## booger

neowaxworks said:


> Sci-Fi HD is active!..just got word..it has signal....


Don't get your hopes up. MGM HD and Smithsonian HD have been active but not available to subs for over a month.


----------



## neowaxworks

booger said:


> Don't get your hopes up. MGM HD and Smithsonian HD have been active but not available to subs for over a month.


I know BUT at least it is progress....rules out the technical issue argument...


----------



## GrumpyBear

aloishus27 said:


> Big Ten was free until last month, now it is a subscription channel. This is BigTen's doing not Dish. Dish said this from the very beginning and is in a thread somewhere on this site. They gave it free to get you hooked, now its extra.
> Sorry.


Thanks for the update, I just noticed it, and hadn't given much thought to find out why. I know from the get go, it was subject to change, and not part of any service level.


----------



## jackienopay

neowaxworks said:


> Sci-Fi HD is active!..just got word..it has signal....


If this is true, why not start a new thread in the DISH HD?


----------



## neowaxworks

jackienopay said:


> If this is true, why not start a new thread in the DISH HD?


Done!


----------



## Ron Barry

neowaxworks said:


> Sci-Fi HD is active!..just got word..it has signal....


What do you mean is active and how do you know this?


----------



## Richard King

Someone may have stepped outside of their NDA.


----------



## neowaxworks

Ron Barry said:


> What do you mean is active and how do you know this?


Channle showing bandwidth usage...confirmed by Scott at satguys via tsreader

and no was not anyone connected with dsih that told me...just an online bud that prolly has connections to stuff I don't ask about....he knew I was *****in cause BSG and I got a msg a little while ago... thats all to it....


----------



## Ron Barry

Possible.. but good news if there is confirmation that the actually SciFi HD content is being sent and not some dummy for test content. Means one step closer for sure.


----------



## Ron Barry

neowaxworks said:


> Channle showing bandwidth usage...confirmed by Scott at satguys via tsreader


Ok... so we know more data is being sent but not what is in the data... Well hopefully it is what we hope it is.


----------



## neowaxworks

Ron Barry said:


> Ok... so we know more data is being sent but not what is in the data... Well hopefully it is what we hope it is.


Yea..I can message my bud..but don't wanna get into all that...I honestly don't know HOW he knows, but I 've a good guess ..not something I want to get involved with...


----------



## Jersey Girl

aloishus27 said:


> Not that I have my head up Charlie's butt or anything but I have to side with him on this one. DirecTV subsidizes the cost of the packages by adding to the bill of all subscribers. Thats how they got the exclusive on NFL. Charlie didnt want to do that. If you want that package DirecTV is the way to go.


Sounds like this is your opinion regarding the NFL, are there any facts to back this up?

What about MLB, did Charlie subsidize the cost when DISH carried it?


----------



## neowaxworks

Jersey Girl said:


> Sounds like this is your opinion regarding the NFL, are there any facts to back this up?
> 
> What about MLB, did Charlie subsidize the cost when DISH carried it?


 Ihonestly think I read at the time that the NFL turned down Dishnet to carry NFLST because they had not, at the time, secured their system...
I dunno I was a Direct sub at that time...I do know we had just gone throughj a card swap but dunno if that had any baring


----------



## Richard King

Jersey Girl said:


> Sounds like this is your opinion regarding the NFL, are there any facts to back this up?
> 
> What about MLB, did Charlie subsidize the cost when DISH carried it?


I would assume that this is the case since if he were making a profit, any profit, on it there would have been no reason for him not to reup the package.


----------



## Jersey Girl

Richard King said:


> I would assume that this is the case since if he were making a profit, any profit, on it there would have been no reason for him not to reup the package.


Well that's an assumption, not a fact.

And my original point was that MLB did not choose to exclude DISH from the Extra Innings package, as James Long stated, DISH chose not to carry it. You can assume any reason you like.


----------



## klegg

Jersey Girl said:


> Well that's an assumption, not a fact.
> 
> And my original point was that MLB did not choose to exclude DISH from the Extra Innings package, as James Long stated, DISH chose not to carry it. You can assume any reason you like.


Are all "Jersey Girls" as touchy as you??? :eek2:


----------



## Jersey Girl

klegg said:


> Are all "Jersey Girls" as touchy as you??? :eek2:


I'm not sure why you would want to make a personal comment like that. I'm discussing the subject at hand.


----------



## klegg

Jersey Girl said:


> I'm not sure why you would want to make a personal comment like that. I'm discussing the subject at hand.


I meant it in good fun. It just seems you always take posts a little "serious"...

Sorry if you were offended...


----------



## Jersey Girl

klegg said:


> I meant it in good fun. It just seems you always take posts a little "serious"...
> 
> Sorry if you were offended...


It's Ok. I was looking for the smiley in your fun post but I couldn't find it....


----------



## klegg

Jersey Girl said:


> It's Ok. I was looking for the smiley in your fun post but I couldn't find it....


For future reference, I am RARELY serious about a topic...just my nature. I'm an Okie for Pete's sake...


----------



## techieguy23

Ron Barry said:


> Possible.. but good news if there is confirmation that the actually SciFi HD content is being sent and not some dummy for test content. Means one step closer for sure.


Its been confirmed by people on the "dark side" that the channels are showing the proper content now. Hopefully they'll turn the channels on soon so not just the hackers can watch.


----------



## neowaxworks

techieguy23 said:


> Its been confirmed by people on the "dark side" that the channels are showing the proper content now. Hopefully they'll turn the channels on soon so not just the hackers can watch.


yea..thats the info I got as well... surprised they didn't flip the switch today fro subs since USA has WWE Raw in hd tonight


----------



## GrumpyBear

Jersey Girl said:


> Sounds like this is your opinion regarding the NFL, are there any facts to back this up?
> 
> What about MLB, did Charlie subsidize the cost when DISH carried it?


It doesn't matter if there is a subsidy or not. Both packages were open to all, and Dish didn't want to pay the amount, or work out a way to make it happen. NFL nor MLB, locked Dish out, Dish didn't step up for a sports package, what a surprise there , only after Dish didn't setup, were Dish users locked out. Don't be blaming anybody else, this is all on Charlie and Co. Blaming the NFL or MLB, is like all the cable companies last year crying about the NFL channel, they didn't get it early, and didn't like what it was going to cost for not sharing the load early, only person's fault was the Cable Co, nobody else's.


----------



## paja

I'm sure if Charlie thought he could make a good profit on either package, he would have picked them up. I would like to konw if D makes alot of money on either NFLST of MLBEI. I'm a HUGE baseball fan but don't feel the need to get EI. So I didn't switch when E didn't bite on EI. I'm in Chicago and get all the Cub/White Sox games, Fox,ESPN, TBS and some games from the Superstation package. More than I can watch.


----------



## harsh

Jersey Girl said:


> MLB negotiated with DISH, and DISH passed because they thought the prices were too high (which is their right to do), just like you said.


This isn't the whole story. MLB negotiated and did a deal with DIRECTV. Under threat of congressional inquiry, MLB decided to open up part of the deal to the other distributors.


----------



## James Long

MLB was looking for guaranteed income ... IIRC they wanted to charge the carriers the same regardless of the number of subscribers that actually wanted to pay the carriers for viewing the channels. It works great if the carrier gets high penetration ... lots of people voluntarily donating $199 to offset the total cost ... but doesn't work so well if people don't subscribe. MLB's bill had to be paid, subscribers or not. Without enough subscribers guess who gets to pay? Everyone ... including the "budget" subscribers paying $19.99 per month.

There is a reason why DirecTV's Family Package is $5 more than DISH w/locals, why DirecTV doesn't have an AT100 level package (their minimum package is AT200 priced) and why DirecTV doesn't have a HD only level. I blame the sports packages.


----------



## aloishus27

James Long said:


> MLB was looking for guaranteed income ... IIRC they wanted to charge the carriers the same regardless of the number of subscribers that actually wanted to pay the carriers for viewing the channels. It works great if the carrier gets high penetration ... lots of people voluntarily donating $199 to offset the total cost ... but doesn't work so well if people don't subscribe. MLB's bill had to be paid, subscribers or not. Without enough subscribers guess who gets to pay? Everyone ... including the "budget" subscribers paying $19.99 per month.
> 
> There is a reason why DirecTV's Family Package is $5 more than DISH w/locals, why DirecTV doesn't have an AT100 level package (their minimum package is AT200 priced) and why DirecTV doesn't have a HD only level. I blame the sports packages.


As do I. James I looked all over for the info you just gave. I thought it was common knowledge. Jersey Girl caught me off guard with her most valid question of how do I know this and can I back it up. I thank you for your response.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> MLB was looking for guaranteed income ... IIRC they wanted to charge the carriers the same regardless of the number of subscribers that actually wanted to pay the carriers for viewing the channels. It works great if the carrier gets high penetration ... lots of people voluntarily donating $199 to offset the total cost ... but doesn't work so well if people don't subscribe. MLB's bill had to be paid, subscribers or not. Without enough subscribers guess who gets to pay? Everyone ... including the "budget" subscribers paying $19.99 per month.
> 
> There is a reason why DirecTV's Family Package is $5 more than DISH w/locals, why DirecTV doesn't have an AT100 level package (their minimum package is AT200 priced) and why DirecTV doesn't have a HD only level. I blame the sports packages.


Well this is a lot different from your earlier post that "the NFL and MLB decided to exclude DISH from their sports packages". That was the comment that didn't seem right to me.

Still, this post is filled with a lot of conjecture, you trusting your power of recall, and supposition.

Your working knowledge of how DirecTV decides what to charge for each package and why may not be 100% accurate, unless you were sitting in on the meetings...which judging by your posts I strongly doubt.

Stating why certain packages are $5 more than other packages, why DirecTV does or doesn't have certain tiers, and throwing out blame for pricing structures is not fact, it's your opinion...which you are more than entitled to. But it's just that, an opinion.

My opinion is that coming up with one lone reason for a $5 price difference could be a bit too simplistic. There is also the adage of supply and demand that should be considered, amongst most likely a host of other things we may or may not be privy to.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Well this is a lot different from your earlier post that "the NFL and MLB decided to exclude DISH from their sports packages". That was the comment that didn't seem right to me.
> 
> Still, this post is filled with a lot of conjecture, you trusting your power of recall, and supposition.
> 
> Your working knowledge of how DirecTV decides what to charge for each package and why may not be 100% accurate, unless you were sitting in on the meetings...which judging by your posts I strongly doubt.
> 
> Stating why certain packages are $5 more than other packages, why DirecTV does or doesn't have certain tiers, and throwing out blame for pricing structures is not fact, it's your opinion...which you are more than entitled to. But it's just that, an opinion.
> 
> My opinion is that coming up with one lone reason for a $5 price difference could be a bit too simplistic. There is also the adage of supply and demand that should be considered, amongst most likely a host of other things we may or may not be privy to.


He pretty much hit it right on the head. now its not just the MLB stuff that is the reason for all those things he mentioned, but rather a concerted effort by E*'s execs to keep prices low. Ocassionally that means losing a channel or sports package. The basic principal is that they refuse to do anything that will increase the cost to all customers when it would only benefit a small portion of of them. re-signing for the MLB package would have cost ALL customers more because of the guaranteed money that MLB would get for it. The number of subscribers to the EI package would not have been enough to cover it.

To illustrate :

MLB wants to charge E* $100,000 for the EI package rather than x amount per sub

E* currently has 500 customers that pay $169.00 for a total revenue of $84,500

If dish re-signs with MLB for that they either have to get 92 more people to sign up for EI to cover the cost difference or they would have to raise the price to $200.00 per person and still maintain the 500 subs (raise the price and likely to lose quite a few). E* more or less ends up with a max revenue from the EI package of around that $84,500. so they would have to raise the cost for all subs by an amount to cover the difference between that and the $100,000 that MLB would be charging them for the package.

Yes, its a way simplified model, but I think it illustrates the principles of the reasoning behind them not re-signing with MLB.

As for the NFL, I think they may have a deal with D* that is actually an exclusive deal, not sure if the cost played into that or not, or if their contract is explicitly for D* to have exclusive rights to that package. If anyone knows for sure about that, some help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jersey Girl

puckwithahalo said:


> He pretty much hit it right on the head. now its not just the MLB stuff that is the reason for all those things he mentioned, but rather a concerted effort by E*'s execs to keep prices low. Ocassionally that means losing a channel or sports package. The basic principal is that they refuse to do anything that will increase the cost to all customers when it would only benefit a small portion of of them. re-signing for the MLB package would have cost ALL customers more because of the guaranteed money that MLB would get for it. The number of subscribers to the EI package would not have been enough to cover it.
> 
> To illustrate :
> 
> MLB wants to charge E* $100,000 for the EI package rather than x amount per sub
> 
> E* currently has 500 customers that pay $169.00 for a total revenue of $84,500
> 
> If dish re-signs with MLB for that they either have to get 92 more people to sign up for EI to cover the cost difference or they would have to raise the price to $200.00 per person and still maintain the 500 subs (raise the price and likely to lose quite a few). E* more or less ends up with a max revenue from the EI package of around that $84,500. so they would have to raise the cost for all subs by an amount to cover the difference between that and the $100,000 that MLB would be charging them for the package.
> 
> Yes, its a way simplified model, but I think it illustrates the principles of the reasoning behind them not re-signing with MLB.
> 
> As for the NFL, I think they may have a deal with D* that is actually an exclusive deal, not sure if the cost played into that or not, or if their contract is explicitly for D* to have exclusive rights to that package. If anyone knows for sure about that, some help would be greatly appreciated.


Ok so according to your model, if Dish offered the MLB package they would have a $15,500 shortfall in their cost/revenue structure they would have to make up. If they did what you said, raised the price for all subs to make up for it, with 14,000,000 subs that would come to 1/10th of one penny per sub per year. In ten years it would cost you one penny total.

Even if I was not a sports fan that would not send me running to another provider.


----------



## James Long

The trouble is, the MLB isn't looking for $100k ... they are looking for MILLIONS. That changes the fractions. Those fractions add up. It's obvious from a price list that DirecTV isn't afraid of charging their customers more.

But this was all argued months ago when the decision not to carry MLB EI was made. It has been a nice diversion from the purpose of this thread (look ... no griping about HD) but we can't spend a week re explaining it to someone who is sure they are right while offering no proof.

You don't believe the consensus opinion of the others in this forum ... prove us wrong. 
And if you have no proof to offer, let's get back to the real topic of this thread.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> The trouble is, the MLB isn't looking for $100k ... they are looking for MILLIONS. That changes the fractions. Those fractions add up. It's obvious from a price list that DirecTV isn't afraid of charging their customers more.
> 
> But this was all argued months ago when the decision not to carry MLB EI was made. It has been a nice diversion from the purpose of this thread (look ... no griping about HD) but we can't spend a week re explaining it to someone who is sure they are right while offering no proof.
> 
> You don't believe the consensus opinion of the others in this forum ... prove us wrong.
> And if you have no proof to offer, let's get back to the real topic of this thread.


Well I never said I was sure I was right, I was questioning others who were sure they were right. And my first question was your statement that "the NFL and MLB decided to exclude DISH" didn't seem right.

For a provider to charge an additional $5 per month per subscriber because of a sports package, that's $60 per year per subscriber, for a total SHORTFALL of $840,000,000. No, that doesn't seem right, sports packages are not that expensive.

I'm thinking perhaps it's not as simple as charging $5 per month per subscriber as you stated but have no proof for. If you like I'll start another thread about this, perhaps there is someone who really does have accurate numbers and answers.


----------



## klegg

Jersey Girl said:


> Well I never said I was sure I was right, I was questioning others who were sure they were right. And my first question was your statement that "the NFL and MLB decided to exclude DISH" didn't seem right.
> 
> For a provider to charge an additional $5 per month per subscriber because of a sports package, that's $60 per year per subscriber, for a total SHORTFALL of $840,000,000. No, that doesn't seem right, sports packages are not that expensive.
> 
> I'm thinking perhaps it's not as simple as charging $5 per month per subscriber as you stated but have no proof for. If you like I'll start another thread about this, perhaps there is someone who really does have accurate numbers and answers.


I guess that's my problem with how you are addressing this...it's a message board FULL of opinions (including your own). Unless Charlie himself gets on here, NO ONE is going to post "accurate numbers and answers".

Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I read ANY post on a message board that does not quote a reliable source, I ALWAYS assume it's someone's opinion and I'm OK with that. This board and many of its posters have proven to be reliable in the past and usually don't spread alot of rumors, so I'm not sure why we'd need to put them through a question and answer every time they post an "opinion"...


----------



## James Long

Jersey Girl said:


> For a provider to charge an additional $5 per month per subscriber because of a sports package, that's $60 per year per subscriber, for a total SHORTFALL of $840,000,000. No, that doesn't seem right, sports packages are not that expensive.


You are taking it too literally ... I noted THREE areas where DirecTV is charging more for their services ... one was the $5 extra charge on their family pack. I didn't say that DirecTV was $5 higher across the board.

There are a lot of other influences ... DISH is well known for tough bargaining ... even being wiling to allow a contract to expire and a channel to go off the air or not be added than agree to a programmer's demands. DirecTV seems to be more willing to pay the price and just get the content. All of that becomes part of the bottom line that the provider needs to cover.

As far as being locked out ... it was reported at the time that MLB wanted a commitment by a date and once that date passed there would be no going back. That date has passed. The NFL has signed a multiyear exclusive contract that locks out DISH.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Ok so according to your model, if Dish offered the MLB package they would have a $15,500 shortfall in their cost/revenue structure they would have to make up. If they did what you said, raised the price for all subs to make up for it, with 14,000,000 subs that would come to 1/10th of one penny per sub per year. In ten years it would cost you one penny total.


I said it was a way simplified model. The thing is, E* is like that with all contracts, as James said. Yes, the MLB thing might only add a little bit to everyone's monthly bill, but following the practice of not doing that across all dealings is one reason that E* is on average $10.00 less per month than D* (I read that number somewhere could be wrong, but regardless, E* is typically cheaper by a fair amount).

To get back to the topic at hand, this very well may be a reason for the delay on HD additions. Yes, we have to wait, but in the long run, its better for the customer that E* bargains so hard. (not stating that as THE reason that the HD channels aren't up when they are already uplinked, just speculating).


----------



## booger

neowaxworks said:


> Ihonestly think I read at the time that the NFL turned down Dishnet to carry NFLST because they had not, at the time, secured their system...
> I dunno I was a Direct sub at that time...I do know we had just gone throughj a card swap but dunno if that had any baring


If this were the case, Dish would have been out of business years ago.

You bring up an interesting point though. What if more content owners took this approach. Yikes.

The last press release on Direct and their _continued_ offering of the NFL ST tells me that the cost of it must be substantial.


----------



## Richard King

At one point in time Directv was the most hacked system and Dish was very secure. NFL was still on Directv on an exclusive basis. The NFL contract comes up every few years and Directv has always paid the bucks to keep it exclusive to them. I suspect that Dish could get into a bidding war with them, but, since Directv is the entrenched carrier, they would have to bid a BUNCH more than it would be worth to them. I'm glad they don't go for all the expensive flat fee sports packages, especially if the packages don't support themselves.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> You are taking it too literally ... I noted THREE areas where DirecTV is charging more for their services ... one was the $5 extra charge on their family pack. I didn't say that DirecTV was $5 higher across the board.
> 
> There are a lot of other influences ... DISH is well known for tough bargaining ... even being wiling to allow a contract to expire and a channel to go off the air or not be added than agree to a programmer's demands. DirecTV seems to be more willing to pay the price and just get the content. All of that becomes part of the bottom line that the provider needs to cover.
> 
> As far as being locked out ... it was reported at the time that MLB wanted a commitment by a date and once that date passed there would be no going back. That date has passed. The NFL has signed a multiyear exclusive contract that locks out DISH.


My opinion is that DISH has basically ceded sports subscribers to DirecTV. Oh they offer things for the peripheral sports fan, the kind that didn't watch any college basketball until this past weekend. The basic sports networks, the NFL and NHL networks, etc. are available and there may be more to come.

But I think Charlie may believe a good portion of the sports fans are already at Direct anyway, so if he does splurge for the MLBEI package he may not get the kind of subscriber penetration that would make it profitable, where it is profitable at Direct. Charlie has decided to focus on a different niche.

This does mean that your theory about Direct charging for other things to subsidize sports may not be correct. They already receive ancillary income from the sports subscribers (additional DVR charges, PPV and much more), so while DISH may have had to subsidize for low numbers, perhaps Direct does not.

Does DISH carry NBA League Pass? I know they have NHL Center Ice, but is it a watered down version compared to Direct? What sports packages does DISH carry?

If Charlie's strategy was to get away from the sports fans, I'm not sure if this was a good decision. Sports fans are known for getting charged more and more every year, and continuing to pay it. For every person on here who seems to disect every little charge from either Dish or Direct to make sure they're not being overcharged by a few pennies, there is a sports fan who simply asks "How much is Extra Innings this year?" And when told how much it went up, simply says "OK". Or perhaps grumbles a little and mentions how ridiculously cheap it was five years ago...but still pays for it this year. That's the nasty old 'supply and demand' theory that posters keep ignoring here while coming up with all kind of other theories.

DISH will survive without the main sports fan, and probably thrive. But it will continue to mean a lot of channels not coming on, or coming on very late, as Charlie bickers over prices with the carrier.

That could be what's going on here with this lack of additional HD programming.


----------



## aloishus27

I'm not sure why you say Dish subs dont watch college basketball until this past week when Dish has the College basketball package ESPN Full court.

Also as far as the Packages Dish carries... here they are:
NHL Center Ice
NBA League Pass
ESPN Full Court
ESPN Game Plan - College Football
MLS Dierct Kick - Major League Soccer

So I think Dish is ok with sports packages so long as they can be offered at a descent price.


----------



## James Long

Jersey Girl said:


> Charlie has decided to focus on a different niche.


Charlie has decided not to focus on _that_ niche ... he's focusing on the majority of viewers ... not just the high ticket or any one niche.

Neither DISH nor DirecTV focus on one niche ... DBS companies that tried that in the past don't exist - only one niche provider remains ... NPS provides up to eight channels of "distant" TV stations on a leased transponder ... the other niche providers have died (most recently, SkyAngel with their religious niche and Voom with their HD niche). Niche providers are hard to keep running.



> This does mean that your theory about Direct charging for other things to subsidize sports may not be correct. They already receive ancillary income from the sports subscribers (additional DVR charges, PPV and much more), so while DISH may have had to subsidize for low numbers, perhaps Direct does not.


Reread what I wrote ... paying a flat fee and trying to gather enough subscribers to cover it was the challenge that DISH faced ... they thought the ticket price was too high, so they passed. Now it is DirecTV's responsibility. Perhaps $199 times the number of subscribers they have is enough ... perhaps not. If it isn't then someone has to eat that cost ... namely DirecTV subscribers who don't get the content.



> Does DISH carry NBA League Pass? I know they have NHL Center Ice, but is it a watered down version compared to Direct? What sports packages does DISH carry?


NBA, NHL and the RSN Multi-Sport are the big ones on DISH. See aloishus27's post for a better list.



> If Charlie's strategy was to get away from the sports fans, I'm not sure if this was a good decision.


I do not believe that is his intent. Mr Ergen likes sports and offers as much sports as he can - keeping the prices affordable. He's not trying to "get away" from any market.


----------



## booger

Richard King said:


> At one point in time Directv was the most hacked system and Dish was very secure. NFL was still on Directv on an exclusive basis. The NFL contract comes up every few years and Directv has always paid the bucks to keep it exclusive to them. I suspect that Dish could get into a bidding war with them, but, since Directv is the entrenched carrier, they would have to bid a BUNCH more than it would be worth to them. I'm glad they don't go for all the expensive flat fee sports packages, especially if the packages don't support themselves.


Unless I seriously underestimated the size of Bell ExpressVue, I would think Dish could afford and compete with Direct on obtaining the NFL ST if they chose to.

Bell sued to have it from what I heard and continue to offer it today.

Maybe since Bell is in a different country?


----------



## James Long

Since DirecTV cannot legally sell in Canada and BEV cannot legally sell in the US it is a good pairing.


----------



## Jersey Girl

aloishus27 said:


> I'm not sure why you say Dish subs dont watch college basketball until this past week when Dish has the College basketball package ESPN Full court.
> 
> Also as far as the Packages Dish carries... here they are:
> NHL Center Ice
> NBA League Pass
> ESPN Full Court
> ESPN Game Plan - College Football
> MLS Dierct Kick - Major League Soccer
> 
> So I think Dish is ok with sports packages so long as they can be offered at a descent price.


Perhaps college basketball was a bad analogy, perhaps not. I don't know how many subscribers DISH has with ESPN Full Court, but I was thinking about the MEGA March Madness package.

But my point still stands...the hard core sports fans tend to be with Direct.


----------



## James Long

Jersey Girl said:


> But my point still stands...the hard core sports fans tend to be with Direct.


An opinion shared by many ...
I wouldn't count on it being accurate.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> Charlie has decided not to focus on _that_ niche ... he's focusing on the majority of viewers ... not just the high ticket or any one niche.
> 
> Neither DISH nor DirecTV focus on one niche ... DBS companies that tried that in the past don't exist - only one niche provider remains ... NPS provides up to eight channels of "distant" TV stations on a leased transponder ... the other niche providers have died (most recently, SkyAngel with their religious niche and Voom with their HD niche). Niche providers are hard to keep running.
> 
> Reread what I wrote ... paying a flat fee and trying to gather enough subscribers to cover it was the challenge that DISH faced ... they thought the ticket price was too high, so they passed. Now it is DirecTV's responsibility. Perhaps $199 times the number of subscribers they have is enough ... perhaps not. If it isn't then someone has to eat that cost ... namely DirecTV subscribers who don't get the content.
> 
> NBA, NHL and the RSN Multi-Sport are the big ones on DISH. See aloishus27's post for a better list.
> 
> I do not believe that is his intent. Mr Ergen likes sports and offers as much sports as he can - keeping the prices affordable. He's not trying to "get away" from any market.


I don't know how to do that cool thing you did separating my post so...

I think Charlie's niche is everything but the most avid sports fan...the kind who pay virtually anything for what they want.

You made the same point I did about Direct getting enough subscribers so that the rest of the subscribers don't have to subsidize MLBEI. That's better than saying so-and-so package is $5 more because they have to subsidize sports.

RSN multi-sport doesn't give you a heck of a lot of additional sports on either provider. Some Fox Sports net college games, not a lot more.

I'm saying ceding so many sports fans to Direct with the NFL and MLB packages limits how much he can offer to pay for other sports packages, since his subscriber base is not as sports-oriented. That may lead to other packages leaving DISH because of price, just like MLBEI, when they make economic sense for Direct.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> An opinion shared by many ...
> I wouldn't count on it being accurate.


So you think the most hard-core baseball and football fans, the ones who must see every possible game, are with DISH?


----------



## James Long

Jersey Girl said:


> I don't know how to do that cool thing you did separating my post so...


Just paste in extra [/QUOTE]


> marks putting what you want to say between the marks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Charlie's niche is everything but the most avid sports fan...the kind who pay virtually anything for what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> You must be a sports fan. It is easy to see yourself shut out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's better than saying so-and-so package is $5 more because they have to subsidize sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what I said.
> 
> 
> 
> Jersey Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think the most hard-core baseball and football fans, the ones who must see every possible game, are with DISH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what you said. Defining "the most hard core" is an interesting target ... but I don't think that "hard core" fans have given up on DISH. There is a lot available without the season tickets for "hard core" fans ... the "most hard core" fans that have to see every game of a sport is the target of the season ticket packages.
> 
> I've read posts from DirecTV subs that would qualify as "hard core" that do not subscribe to the NFL ST/MLB EI packages because they get enough (on channels that DISH also offers). I assume that you don't consider such a person a "sports fan" ... and such a comment is blasphemy? :lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## booger

James Long said:


> Since DirecTV cannot legally sell in Canada and BEV cannot legally sell in the US it is a good pairing.


That makes sense from a legal standpoint.

The two can't legally compete so to speak.


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> Just paste in extra





> marks putting what you want to say between the marks.
> 
> You must be a sports fan. It is easy to see yourself shut out.
> 
> That is not what I said.
> 
> That is not what you said. Defining "the most hard core" is an interesting target ... but I don't think that "hard core" fans have given up on DISH. There is a lot available without the season tickets for "hard core" fans ... the "most hard core" fans that have to see every game of a sport is the target of the season ticket packages.
> 
> I've read posts from DirecTV subs that would qualify as "hard core" that do not subscribe to the NFL ST/MLB EI packages because they get enough (on channels that DISH also offers). I assume that you don't consider such a person a "sports fan" ... and such a comment is blasphemy? :lol:


That is what you said.

Forget Direct, for the most part there is more available to sports fans on cable than there is on Dish. On dish you get your home team, national networks everyone gets (when Charlie isn't arguing with them) and that's it.

Cable has more.


----------



## James Long

Jersey Girl said:


> That is what you said.


No, it is not --- you can read what I replied when you misinterpreted it before again if needed.



> Cable has more.


So this is just general "DISH is bad"? Time to move on.

Let's get back to HD.


----------



## phrelin

I found this post on another thread which seems to indicate that we may be looking at a restoration of meaningful future competition:



syphix said:


> The *bolded* channels in the list below are those that are currently NOT on DirecTV (i.e., E* would be the first sat provider to carry them):
> 
> ABC Family Channel HD
> *AMC (American Movie Classics) HD*
> *BET HD*
> The Biography Channel HD
> Cartoon Network HD
> CMT (Country Music Channel) HD
> CNN HD
> Disney Channel HD
> ESPN News HD
> *HBO2 HD*
> *IFC (Independent Film Channel) HD*
> MGM HD
> *MoreMAX HD*
> MTV HD
> Nickelodeon HD
> Sci Fi Channel HD
> Smithsonian HD
> The Tennis Channel HD
> The Weather Channel HD
> Toon Disney HD
> USA Network HD
> VH-1 HD
> *WGN HD*


----------



## Jersey Girl

James Long said:


> No, it is not --- you can read what I replied when you misinterpreted it before again if needed.
> 
> So this is just general "DISH is bad"? Time to move on.
> 
> Let's get back to HD.


Lack of HD could possibly be because Charlie won't pay for it.


----------



## projectorguru

Jersey Girl said:


> So you think the most hard-core baseball and football fans, the ones who must see every possible game, are with DISH?


JG, I am a big Hockey, Nascar, Football and Baseball fan, been with Dish for 9 years, switched to Direct for a short time, sports were nice over there, but too many issuses I won't get into, so I came right back, yeah it sucks not havin the ticket, but I don't need to watch all games, I get enough from the locals, espn ect, I want more but not enough to leave just for Sports, people complain about Voom, but my Direct tv friends come over and want to watch Rave and Rush HD all the time, cuz they don't have it, so yeah some of us BIG SPorts fans are here with Dish


----------



## HobbyTalk

You're not a BIG sports fan, just a BIG sports fan wannabe.... Jersey Girl said so


----------



## phrelin

Looks to me like someone should come up with a package that covers all events of professional and college men's and womens' Hockey, Nascar, Football, Soccer, Baseball and whatever. Probably would cost the price of a corporate box at an NFL stadium, but for the BIG sportsfan....


----------



## Richard King

Jersey Girl said:


> Lack of HD could possibly be because Charlie won't pay for it.


That sounds like speculation to me. Until you get a notice with Charlie's notarized signature on it that this is fact the statement has no weight in reality.


----------



## phrelin

Jersey Girl said:


> Lack of HD could possibly be because Charlie won't pay for it.


Well, factually he won't be paying for it because we don't have it. So it's not unreasonable to speculate that we don't have it because....:grin:


----------



## The Sandman

James Long said:


> Reread what I wrote ... paying a flat fee and trying to gather enough subscribers to cover it was the challenge that DISH faced ... they thought the ticket price was too high, so they passed.


Richard, isn't this just rumor and speculation as well? I didn't hear Charlie say it himself. Does it have weight and reality?


----------



## texaswolf

Richard King said:


> That sounds like speculation to me. Until you get a notice with Charlie's notarized signature on it that this is fact the statement has no weight in reality.


Actually he did say in the last CC that they are in negotiations to get the best possible price for "us". SO to say that Charlies negotiations are a hold up wouldn't be too far off the mark...just depends on how you look at them....either wait and pay less, or have them now and possibly pay more.


----------



## Jersey Girl

Richard King said:


> That sounds like speculation to me. Until you get a notice with Charlie's notarized signature on it that this is fact the statement has no weight in reality.


Not speculation, an opinion. No more or less valid than yours. I gave a possible reason, not a fact.


----------



## Richard King

> Not speculation, an opinion.


As are most of the comments here that you are so vigorously attacking.


----------



## CoolGui

I'm not going to be able to watch the Rockets and Sonic's game in HD tonight. And I'm upset about it. I sent this to eCare:



> Hi,
> 
> I'm really disappointed with the Dish Network HD channel offering. Both my local cable AND DirecTV are offering more HD channels. I'm very close to switching to DirecTV. Today I saw that I would NOT be able to see the Rockets vs Sonics game in HD tonight on Dish Network because you don't carry the dedicated FSN Houston channel, and it's not on one of the HD Alt channels like it often is. The only reason I've made it as long as I have is the multiroom DVR viewing feature of my ViP622, but that won't last very long... This is just a warning that I (and probably MANY MANY others) won't be with you long unless you resolve these issues ASAP.


And their response was:



> Thank you for your e-mail. We do apologize for the inconvenience, at the moment we are not currently offering these channels in the specified format. We would like to add this to make viewers like you happy, but we do not know if or when this will happen.
> 
> We are always working to acquire more programming to provide services to our valued customers.
> 
> We thank you for your input as we continually review our options in order to provide a compelling lineup for our viewers. Please stay tuned for consumer Charlie Chats that are broadcast monthly on Channel 101 or logon to our website for future programming announcements.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> DISH Network E-Care
> Pinebrook


I don't want to give up my TV2 receiver, but I swear if I don't see some new HD channel in my lineup in about a week, I'm giving up on Dish Network. So I'll have to get a second box, so be it.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> I don't want to give up my TV2 receiver, but I swear if I don't see some new HD channel in my lineup in about a week, I'm giving up on Dish Network. So I'll have to get a second box, so be it.


As I've said before its only been something like 9 months that anyone has had more HD than E*. As oppossed to the literally years that E* had the lead. By all means, do what's right for you, but just trying to put a little perspective on it.


----------



## megawayne

Please wait while we find a representative to assist you... 
You have been connected to (03) Rex H. 
Wayne Johnson: Hello 
(03) Rex H: Thank you for choosing Dish Network the leader in DVR and HD. How may I assist you? 
Wayne Johnson: My contract is up recently and I am comparing my options 
Wayne Johnson: I am looking for HD channels 
(03) Rex H: Okay. 
Wayne Johnson: Is Dish adding any more soon? 
(03) Rex H: Yes. 
Wayne Johnson: I currenty am with Dish and am not happy with the HD selection 
Wayne Johnson: Are there a timeline and a list of channels? 
(03) Rex H: I am really sorry to near that. 
(03) Rex H: Yes. 
(03) Rex H: DISH Network also announced plans to launch a number of national HD channels over the next few months. 
Wayne Johnson: Where can I find the list and details? 
(03) Rex H: ABC Family Channel HD 
AMC (American Movie Classics) HD 
BET HD 
The Biography Channel HD 
Cartoon Network HD 
CMT (Country Music Channel) HD 
CNN HD 
Disney Channel HD 
ESPN News HD 
HBO2 HD 
IFC (Independent Film Channel) HD 
MGM HD 
MoreMAX HD 
MTV HD 
Nickelodeon HD 
Sci Fi Channel HD 
Smithsonian HD 
The Tennis Channel HD 
The Weather Channel HD 
Toon Disney HD 
USA Network HD 
VH-1 HD 
WGN HD 
Wayne Johnson: What is the timeline? 
Wayne Johnson: Days, months, years, etc? 
(03) Rex H: We don't have a specific timeline however as soon as possible. Please give us some time for this. 
Wayne Johnson: I have been waiting since November when Directv added around 70 channels 
(03) Rex H: We are working on this. 
Wayne Johnson: What kind of timeline? 
Wayne Johnson: at the earliest? 
(03) Rex H: Yes at the earliest. 
Wayne Johnson: No, what is the earliest that channels will be added? 
(03) Rex H: Our web site will be updated as and when this channel is added. 
Wayne Johnson: Also what about FX HD 
(03) Rex H: No updates on FX HD as yet. 
Wayne Johnson: Will any channels be added in the next month? Directv has a free installation for the next month on HD DVR receivers 
(03) Rex H: We are constantly adding channels on a regular basis to our line up and continue to provide the widest variety of HD programming options available anywhere. 
Wayne Johnson: Are there a timeline though? 
Wayne Johnson: Is there? 
(03) Rex H: We will try and launch them soon one by one. 
(03) Rex H: I apologize for any inconvenience. 
Wayne Johnson: What exactly is soon? 
Wayne Johnson: How can I interpret soon? Days, Weeks? 
(03) Rex H: I see that you have been a wonderful customer with us. Let me see what I can do for you. 
Wayne Johnson: Okay. 
((03) Rex H: We will keep you updated on HD channel launch every week. 
Wayne Johnson: How soon will I get any info. 
(03) Rex H: Every week. 
Wayne Johnson: Which channels will launch first 
(03) Rex H: I apologize. We are waiting for a reply from the HD launching department for complete details on this. 
(03) Rex H: Please give us more time and we will send an email to you regarding this.


----------



## DustoMan

You're just wasting your time. Dish will tell us when exactly we will get new HD when they are ready. Many years ago they tried to tell us dates in advanced, and do you know what happened when they missed them for one reason or another? People were pissed. I'd rather come home and be surprised by a new HD channel, then be disappointed when they can't meet a date they committed to.


----------



## CoolGui

puckwithahalo said:


> As I've said before its only been something like 9 months that anyone has had more HD than E*. As oppossed to the literally years that E* had the lead. By all means, do what's right for you, but just trying to put a little perspective on it.


I hear 'ya, and that is why I've stuck around this long. I guess they "deserved" my patience. But since I'm watching the crappy SD version of the game right now (and boy is it bad), my patience is wearing thin.


----------



## russ9

megawayne said:


> (03) Rex H: Please give us more time and we will send an email to you regarding this.


Did you ask for a timeline in regards to when they will email you back?

There are AI programs (although not on Dish in HD  )that could give the same answers.


----------



## neomaine

OK, I'm done...

First, my locals were listed in the original press release as being some of the first few to make it to HD. After reading a couple more posts they're not listed in either the April or May releases...

Already missed the initial episode of BSG last Friday on SciFi HD...

NOW THEY'RE NOT EVEN SHOWING THE FLIPPING RED SOX GAMES ON A CHANNEL THEY'RE SUPPOSED BE BROADCASTING...

Dish. Three strikes...YOU'RE OUT!!


----------



## dennispap

CoolGui said:


> I'm not going to be able to watch the Rockets and Sonic's game in HD tonight. And I'm upset about it. I sent this to eCare:
> 
> And their response was:
> Quote:
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail. We do apologize for the inconvenience, at the moment we are not currently offering these channels in the specified format. We would like to add this to make viewers like you happy, but we do not know if or when this will happen.
> 
> We are always working to acquire more programming to provide services to our valued customers.
> 
> We thank you for your input as we continually review our options in order to provide a compelling lineup for our viewers. *Please stay tuned for consumer Charlie Chats that are broadcast monthly on Channel 101 *or logon to our website for future programming announcements.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> DISH Network E-Care
> Pinebrook
> 
> I don't want to give up my TV2 receiver, but I swear if I don't see some new HD channel in my lineup in about a week, I'm giving up on Dish Network. So I'll have to get a second box, so be it.


I dont know why they keep telling customers that bs! The Charlie chats are not monthly! The last one was in feb or march and the next one is June, that is hardly monthly. It makes you wonder if a company cant even get the smallest of facts/info straight, how can you take anything they say seriously?.


----------



## joemama41

dennispap said:


> I dont know why they keep telling customers that bs! The Charlie chats are not monthly! The last one was in feb or march and the next one is June, that is hardly monthly. It makes you wonder if a company cant even get the smallest of facts/info straight, how can you take anything they say seriously?.


And you expect Dish to take their customers seriously when they are nitpicking details like when Charlie Chats air.


----------



## CoolGui

joemama41 said:


> And you expect Dish to take their customers seriously when they are nitpicking details like when Charlie Chats air.


Not so much when they air, just the fact that the CSRs are not informed enough to know themselves. Of course I wasn't the one griping, just that I can see where he's coming from.

I get information here directly from or before the Charlie Chat, so I don't really watch them. I saw one, but it was pretty dull and a lot of hype.


----------



## Cappyxavs

I have been a E defector since monday. on the short term i can relay the following:

> i thought i'd miss my 622 i do not. 

> even if dish adds channels in hd a number of them will be on the upper tiers where they seem to have a lot of channels i like. with D i am getting all of those channels on the "E" 250 tier at less money even without the 18/mo for a year. 

> i am so tempted to order ST so i can see my teams on my terms in HD. at least now i have that option. 

>sci fi HD is really nice and yes if available the shows are in DD5.1 can't wait to watch BSG this week!

>the dvr can track a show for the entire season even if it's time changes. 

>the hr20/21 units i have are just as reponsive as the 622 and channels change just as fast. the program guide is actualy a bit more professional and they have options for either IR or RF control. 

i'll post more as i become better familiar with the unit.


----------



## James Long

Cappyxavs said:


> > even if dish adds channels in hd a number of them will be on the upper tiers where they seem to have a lot of channels i like. with D i am getting all of those channels on the "E" 250 tier at less money even without the 18/mo for a year.


AT250 $59.99, Choice Xtra $57.99 ... 
Did you get D*'s HD Extra Pack? That would be a savings ('cause you don't have to/can't buy Voom).



> >sci fi HD is really nice and yes if available the shows are in DD5.1 can't wait to watch BSG this week!


Tune in early for last week's episode. 



> >the dvr can track a show for the entire season even if it's time changes.


So can the 622 ... even with different day of week changes. Did someone tell you the HR-20 couldn't do that?



> i'll post more as i become better familiar with the unit.


We do have other forums for that.


----------



## bobkeenan

I just switched to Directv last night because of the HD issues. Specifically SciFi and yes I am a BG fan who missed the opener in HD. But NO MORE!!

I called Dish this morning to cancel. We transfered from a "english is my second language" woman to a real english speaking person. He wanted to know why. I told him it was lack of added HD and the stupid no telephone line $5/month deal. But it was the SciFi that pushed me over the edge. He said that they were going to be DOUBLING the number of HD channels in the next couple of Months and that SciFi would be HD by the end of May. Note he also said that they offered a deal last Feb where I did not have to pay the $5 no telephone fee..... so why didn't they just take that off in Feb???

Anyhow I started playing with the Directv system last night. At first I was irritated because it was different than what I had gotten used to for the last 5 years. BUT after a couple hours I had the hang of it. It is basically the same but now I have a lot more HD and the PQ is nice.


----------



## The Sandman

bobkeenan said:


> I just switched to Directv last night because of the HD issues. Specifically SciFi and yes I am a BG fan who missed the opener in HD. But NO MORE!!
> 
> I called Dish this morning to cancel. We transfered from a "english is my second language" woman to a real english speaking person. He wanted to know why. I told him it was lack of added HD and the stupid no telephone line $5/month deal. But it was the SciFi that pushed me over the edge. He said that they were going to be DOUBLING the number of HD channels in the next couple of Months and that SciFi would be HD by the end of May. Note he also said that they offered a deal last Feb where I did not have to pay the $5 no telephone fee..... so why didn't they just take that off in Feb???
> 
> Anyhow I started playing with the Directv system last night. At first I was irritated because it was different than what I had gotten used to for the last 5 years. BUT after a couple hours I had the hang of it. It is basically the same but now I have a lot more HD and the PQ is nice.


Bob, you are so right. I have had cable, both dish companies and all it takes is getting used to the channel numbers and the remote. Not much different then getting a new sound system or TV with new features. Heck my mother in law (82) when she moved in took a couple of months to get used to DISH after cable for 20 years, but now she knows where her channels are and she is fine. Some folks make way too big a deal out of this.


----------



## normang

Wonder how much extra "savings" were spent to switch?


----------



## texaswolf

normang said:


> Wonder how much extra "savings" were spent to switch?


I bet 1 month...nah 2 weeks, with the new HD channels and it was worth it for him.


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> AT250 $59.99, Choice Xtra $57.99 ...
> Did you get D*'s HD Extra Pack? That would be a savings ('cause you don't have to/can't buy Voom).
> 
> Tune in early for last week's episode.
> 
> So can the 622 ... even with different day of week changes. Did someone tell you the HR-20 couldn't do that?
> 
> We do have other forums for that.


>The choice extra tier is 54.99 at least that's what mine is. 
>the dvr fees are waived unlike dish who makes you buy the everything tier for this. 
>the 622 was so-so at tracking season eps
>the only voom channel i cared about was monsters i do not miss it as it's 2 or 3 movies played over and over and over and over...... now i have 168 more channels and tons of hd content... go figure
...

as far as my situation goes i am happy enough with what i have that i can call E and tell charlie that our relationship over the last several years has come to an end.

>**james do me a favor and point me to a link to a D site where i can converse with other folks who share my configuation and thanks.... i'd rather be happy with what i have compared to *****ing about what charlie lacks


----------



## Cappyxavs

bobkeenan said:


> I just switched to Directv last night because of the HD issues. Specifically SciFi and yes I am a BG fan who missed the opener in HD. But NO MORE!!
> 
> I called Dish this morning to cancel. We transfered from a "english is my second language" woman to a real english speaking person. He wanted to know why. I told him it was lack of added HD and the stupid no telephone line $5/month deal. But it was the SciFi that pushed me over the edge. He said that they were going to be DOUBLING the number of HD channels in the next couple of Months and that SciFi would be HD by the end of May. Note he also said that they offered a deal last Feb where I did not have to pay the $5 no telephone fee..... so why didn't they just take that off in Feb???
> 
> Anyhow I started playing with the Directv system last night. At first I was irritated because it was different than what I had gotten used to for the last 5 years. BUT after a couple hours I had the hang of it. It is basically the same but now I have a lot more HD and the PQ is nice.


yes my wife commented today that the sd pq is better and she is very happy with the switch.


----------



## James Long

Cappyxavs said:


> >**james do me a favor and point me to a link to a D site where i can converse with other folks who share my configuation and thanks.... i'd rather be happy with what i have compared to *****ing about what charlie lacks


There are plenty of forums right here at DBSTalk where you can start reading (always a preferred first step) and contributing.

Start here.

DBSTalk is a forum divided by topics ... the topic of this forum is DISH Network and, in particular, their HD offerings.


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> There are plenty of forums right here at DBSTalk where you can start reading (always a preferred first step) and contributing.
> 
> Start here.
> 
> DBSTalk is a forum divided by topics ... the topic of this forum is DISH Network and, in particular, their HD offerings.


thank you.. i do appologize for the remark however i did try to withdraw it as quikly as i could. in any event i will have to end posting on this thread farewell. i'll monitor it and give help as needed and if needed. just cancelled dish and now i start a new venture with no looking back.


----------



## normang

texaswolf said:


> I bet 1 month...nah 2 weeks, with the new HD channels and it was worth it for him.


Perhaps if he were patient, he would have had the same channels without having to switch.... It must be so much fun waiting for installers, swapping everything but the cables.. just for a few channels that I think we all know will show up on Dish eventually.. I know someone will not agree, however IMHO it was waste of time and money if there were any costs incurred to switch... Its only TV, and if that's all there is in life is the next HD channel, thats pretty sad...


----------



## Bobby H

I agree that TV isn't the most important thing in life, or even very important at all. Likewise, why should it matter if someone chooses to switch satellite carriers if they're not happy with the service? If it isn't important then brand loyalty shouldn't be important at all either.

If the _other satellite company_ had local channels for my market I probably would have switched months ago. Given all the extra $6 and $7 fees Dish throws in to inflate a bill, I'm still very tempted to switch. I'm not under contract and can do so any time.


----------



## lparsons21

normang said:


> Perhaps if he were patient, he would have had the same channels without having to switch.... It must be so much fun waiting for installers, swapping everything but the cables.. just for a few channels that I think we all know will show up on Dish eventually.. I know someone will not agree, however IMHO it was waste of time and money if there were any costs incurred to switch... Its only TV, and if that's all there is in life is the next HD channel, thats pretty sad...


I'm one of those who switched so I could get the HD now and not some unstated time in the future. In my case, the final bill was $23 and change. More than made up for with the 1st year credits and such that I'm getting with Direct. I'm also getting my locals in HD now, they are not even on any announced radar with Dish.

Unlike Cappy, I miss my 622, but not enough to use it to have less of the channels I want in HD.


----------



## normang

Lloyd, if Direct has your locals and Dish does not, that makes sense to me... However, just switching for the sake of a couple HD channels, that will eventually be airing on Dish makes no sense to me...

Bobby, one can make all sorts of excuses to justify most any action. If some HD channel were so important that one could not wait for it to appear on Dish, I don't think that's a justification to switch. 

If a single channel that I think I'll like is not on Dish, if I've never seen it, how would I know I'll even like it or care that its there.

Based on all the rumors, many of the HD channels that Direct now has will eventually appear on Dish, it may take them a while for various reasons.. perhaps related to cost or related to bandwidth.. Perhaps if any of the rumors being discussed are accurate, a few will show up in the next few weeks.

If you are so concerned about cost, and based on my reading to get same for same content, you are not going to save anything by switching near as I can tell. If the only thing holding you back is locals, and OTA does not work for you, your stuck I guess. And perhaps by the time Direct has your locals, all the HD you think your missing will be on Dish and it will all be a moot point.


----------



## TulsaOK

normang said:


> Perhaps if he were patient, he would have had the same channels without having to switch.... It must be so much fun waiting for installers, swapping everything but the cables.. just for a few channels that I think we all know will show up on Dish eventually.. I know someone will not agree, however IMHO it was waste of time and money if there were any costs incurred to switch... Its only TV, and if that's all there is in life is the next HD channel, thats pretty sad...


Every day I drive into downtown Atlanta. I-75 is pretty congested. I notice the cars that change lanes every time there is a slow down. They pass me. Then I, staying in my original lane, pass them. Then they change lanes again. So it goes as we progress into Atlanta. We generally get there around the same time as I exit at North Avenue. I think it's going to be this way between E* and D*. Just wait a bit and things will change; be patient.


----------



## Hound

Nine months ago E* was not the HD leader which is very evident with E's current MPEG 4 HD penetration of about 7 percent or slightly over 1 million HD subs. E* had a HD strategy that backfired badly. Buy some esoteric non mainstream HD programmong and charge more ($20) than any other HD provider and charge an additional $5 for HD locals. Sure Voom is very good but it does not appeal to the new mainstream HD subs as much as HD locals and HD RSNs. D*, cable and Verizon focused on HD locals and HD RSNs.
When E* was the so called
HD leader it did not have HD RSNs (D* had HD RSNs in major markets) and was way behind in local HD. The folly of that decision is now 
played out in HD penetration rates. Cablevision has an announced HD penetration of 33 percent. Evidence indicates Comcast, D*, Verizon and 
other big cable are over 20 percent. The US TV market is about 110 million 
households. It is estimated 
that 29 million will have a blu ray player this year. That alone is penetration of over 20 percent.


----------



## normang

Hound, where are you getting these figures from anyway?


----------



## Cappyxavs

from my understanding of locals, the sats are available for them to be sent in HD but it's all up to the cost negotiation of the local broadcasters. if this is the case when they tell you to write your local provider we should simply send those petitions to the local networks


----------



## puckwithahalo

> and charge an additional $5 for HD locals.


um....E* has never charged extra for HD locals....


----------



## lparsons21

normang said:


> Lloyd, if Direct has your locals and Dish does not, that makes sense to me... However, just switching for the sake of a couple HD channels, that will eventually be airing on Dish makes no sense to me...


You know it doesn't have to make sense to you, only to me. 

A few years ago, when I bought my first HDTV, I had been on cable many years. So naturally I called them, for $10 they would give me 5 channels of HD and more 'soon', plus a bit more a month for the HDDVR. So I looked around and switched to Dish because they had more HD and the cost was around the same. Maybe a bit less.

This February my obligation to Dish was nearly up and I wanted more HD. Charley was being vague (still is, IMO). So I switched to Direct and got it.

It is strictly a business relationship, neither I nor Dish (or any other company for that matter) have 'loyalty' to each other. In 21 more months, when my obligation to Direct is up, I'll look again. If it makes more sense to switch than stay, I'll switch again. No big deal, just business as usual.

As for the cable company, well I think they are up to 9 channels for the same price. So 'soon' means different things for different folks I suppose.

I'm enjoying all the HD channels right now, I seldom watch anything else. That wasn't so true with Dish. The channels I liked the most were not in HD yet, and are not today either, even though two of them have been uplinked for months. Eventually both services will have nearly the same HD and it won't matter, I just wasn't willing to wait for 'eventually'.


----------



## TBoneit

TulsaOK said:


> Every day I drive into downtown Atlanta. I-75 is pretty congested. I notice the cars that change lanes every time there is a slow down. They pass me. Then I, staying in my original lane, pass them. Then they change lanes again. So it goes as we progress into Atlanta. We generally get there around the same time as I exit at North Avenue. I think it's going to be this way between E* and D*. Just wait a bit and things will change; be patient.


I've seen that same thing here in NJ. I stayed in the right hand lane and I could see the cars that kept switching lanes falling farther and farther behind. 
As I get older I think that if it makes them happy to think they're doing something, Oh well.

Last night was a typical evening for me I watched a 1 hour show in SD and two 2 hour shows in HD. Since these shows run around 45 minutes of show per hour that was 2 1/4 hours of watching the actual show. I spent 5 hours watching those shows inbetween doing other things. A lot of shows that looked good in the guide I end up skipping through in a few minutes as they didn't hook me in the first few minutes. I guess TV isn't the most important thing in my life. From the wealth of things available all I can find is a hour or three a day where I watch the whole thing. Even then it is just as likely to be something I've seen before such as Ghostbusters HD.

Network TV, I didn't miss it during the strike. Right Now I'm watching Best friends, New Tricks, 'Allo 'Allo & Mulberry on WLIW & NJN on a regular basis.


----------



## TBoneit

Cappyxavs said:


> from my understanding of locals, the sats are available for them to be sent in HD but it's all up to the cost negotiation of the local broadcasters. if this is the case when they tell you to write your local provider we should simply send those petitions to the local networks


It isn't just Dishnetwork. DirecTV has these problems too. Evidently E* has KOIN HD and D* doesn't. There is a fairly long thread over in one of the D* forums about it. Same thing happened with LIN stations from what I remember reading here.


----------



## klegg

lparsons21 said:


> You know it doesn't have to make sense to you, only to me.
> 
> A few years ago, when I bought my first HDTV, I had been on cable many years. So naturally I called them, for $10 they would give me 5 channels of HD and more 'soon', plus a bit more a month for the HDDVR. So I looked around and switched to Dish because they had more HD and the cost was around the same. Maybe a bit less.
> 
> This February my obligation to Dish was nearly up and I wanted more HD. Charley was being vague (still is, IMO). So I switched to Direct and got it.
> 
> It is strictly a business relationship, neither I nor Dish (or any other company for that matter) have 'loyalty' to each other. In 21 more months, when my obligation to Direct is up, I'll look again. If it makes more sense to switch than stay, I'll switch again. No big deal, just business as usual.
> 
> As for the cable company, well I think they are up to 9 channels for the same price. So 'soon' means different things for different folks I suppose.
> 
> I'm enjoying all the HD channels right now, I seldom watch anything else. That wasn't so true with Dish. The channels I liked the most were not in HD yet, and are not today either, even though two of them have been uplinked for months. Eventually both services will have nearly the same HD and it won't matter, I just wasn't willing to wait for 'eventually'.


I agree with your logic completely. It's up to each customer to decide what is best for THEM.

With that said, I actually encourage people to switch that the lack of HD bothers, because then, I usually don't have to read NEAR as much complaining about it...:hurah:


----------



## Cappyxavs

TBoneit said:


> It isn't just Dishnetwork. DirecTV has these problems too. Evidently E* has KOIN HD and D* doesn't. There is a fairly long thread over in one of the D* forums about it. Same thing happened with LIN stations from what I remember reading here.


yeah this is what i meant it is the same for both companies. both D and E would love to switch on your local hds but the local networks have to come to a reasonable term.


----------



## Cappyxavs

lparsons21 said:


> You know it doesn't have to make sense to you, only to me.
> 
> A few years ago, when I bought my first HDTV, I had been on cable many years. So naturally I called them, for $10 they would give me 5 channels of HD and more 'soon', plus a bit more a month for the HDDVR. So I looked around and switched to Dish because they had more HD and the cost was around the same. Maybe a bit less.
> 
> This February my obligation to Dish was nearly up and I wanted more HD. Charley was being vague (still is, IMO). So I switched to Direct and got it.
> 
> It is strictly a business relationship, neither I nor Dish (or any other company for that matter) have 'loyalty' to each other. In 21 more months, when my obligation to Direct is up, I'll look again. If it makes more sense to switch than stay, I'll switch again. No big deal, just business as usual.
> 
> As for the cable company, well I think they are up to 9 channels for the same price. So 'soon' means different things for different folks I suppose.
> 
> I'm enjoying all the HD channels right now, I seldom watch anything else. That wasn't so true with Dish. The channels I liked the most were not in HD yet, and are not today either, even though two of them have been uplinked for months. Eventually both services will have nearly the same HD and it won't matter, I just wasn't willing to wait for 'eventually'.


absolutly agree it's totaly the end users need or want. my decision was based on two no shows for 612's from E and it was only 26 dollars to leave.

side note... when i finalized my charlie defection E offered me 2 months free and my 612 units asap... why did they wait until i left to offer this? if they offered a comp package when they missed the 2nd appointment i would have most likely held out.


----------



## lparsons21

Cappyxavs said:


> absolutly agree it's totaly the end users need or want. my decision was based on two no shows for 612's from E and it was only 26 dollars to leave.
> 
> side note... when i finalized my charlie defection E offered me 2 months free and my 612 units asap... why did they wait until i left to offer this? if they offered a comp package when they missed the 2nd appointment i would have most likely held out.


Just wait, you'll get at least 2 more calls with even better offers. 

I got one about a month after I switched that offered basically what I had been paying about $100/month for $20/month for 6 months. Of course, it was too late and I didn't switch because of the money, I switched because of the HD shows I wanted to watch.

But both companies are guilty of 'too little, too late' in these offers and I don't see a way for that not to continue. If they gave a really good deal every time someone says they will cancel, they would be swamped with calls from people that actually aren't wanting to quit, just get a better deal. Not good business.

I like both companies for different reasons. I love the Dish Vip series, just more mature and literally trouble-free after the first few months of their release. I liked Voom a lot early on, but as time went on, and the repeats got worse, Voom became not so good, imo. I like Direct's HD lineup, but not their receiver. But I watch the shows, not the receiver...


----------



## dclaryjr

lparsons21 said:


> I'm enjoying all the HD channels right now, I seldom watch anything else. .


Ditto here. The only thing I watch with any consistency that isn't HD is the Travel Channel. And that getting harder since they constantly have the "now available in HD" logo on there quite often. If E* would just get that in HD, and move my RSN to 61.5, then I would be a totally satisfied sub. The former may happen--don't know about the latter.


----------



## Cappyxavs

lparsons21 said:


> Just wait, you'll get at least 2 more calls with even better offers.
> 
> I got one about a month after I switched that offered basically what I had been paying about $100/month for $20/month for 6 months. Of course, it was too late and I didn't switch because of the money, I switched because of the HD shows I wanted to watch.
> 
> But both companies are guilty of 'too little, too late' in these offers and I don't see a way for that not to continue. If they gave a really good deal every time someone says they will cancel, they would be swamped with calls from people that actually aren't wanting to quit, just get a better deal. Not good business.
> 
> I like both companies for different reasons. I love the Dish Vip series, just more mature and literally trouble-free after the first few months of their release. I liked Voom a lot early on, but as time went on, and the repeats got worse, Voom became not so good, imo. I like Direct's HD lineup, but not their receiver. But I watch the shows, not the receiver...


there is a very small 7 day trial window that you can still back out of D after that you are under contract. thus nullifying any offer E could possibly give you.

i agree about voom in the begining i loved it UFO, the horror shows on monsters and the concerts on rave etc however after time it just kept repeating the same old shows and most days monsters was showing the same 2 movies all darn day.

family had only two shows i liked and i had seen them over and over

and rave ran out of new concert material.


----------



## Hound

normang said:


> Hound, where are you getting these figures from anyway?


Cablevision press releases,
Cablevision quarterly financial statements have the number of Voom subs. Easy to figure out E* subs if you subtract cablevision subs. TV predictions has a lot of the 
info and the nielsen reports also have some.
D* had to disclose its HD subs in the HDNET lawsuit. Comcast has announced HD subs.


----------



## phrelin

Hound said:


> Nine months ago E* was not the HD leader which is very evident with E's current MPEG 4 HD penetration of about 7 percent or slightly over 1 million HD subs. E* had a HD strategy that backfired badly. Buy some esoteric non mainstream HD programmong and charge more ($20) than any other HD provider and charge an additional $5 for HD locals. Sure Voom is very good but it does not appeal to the new mainstream HD subs as much as HD locals and HD RSNs. D*, cable and Verizon focused on HD locals and HD RSNs.
> When E* was the so called HD leader it did not have HD RSNs (D* had HD RSNs in major markets) and was way behind in local HD. The folly of that decision is now
> played out in HD penetration rates. Cablevision has an announced HD penetration of 33 percent. Evidence indicates Comcast, D*, Verizon and
> other big cable are over 20 percent. The US TV market is about 110 million
> households. It is estimated that 29 million will have a blu ray player this year. That alone is penetration of over 20 percent.


Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say all over these threads. Competitively, satellite has problems because local cable companies don't have to stretch their "national" bandwidth to provide locals. DirecTV figured out what advantage satellite had - cable nationals, put it in the center of an HD business plan and spent the money necessary to create a "buzz" which has placed it in the center of the HD battle - the target to beat. Dish made itself appear irrelevant in the HD market which is the only TV market for the next five years. It could reverse that - not with HD locals which cable already has - but apparently the corporation is micromanaged by a rich guy who apparently likes tennis and TBS.

Here's my unsolicited not so humble opinion on how Dish in the next two months could tackle the HD market with a few added national cable channels HD based mostly on new programming prime-time ratings and the $30 HD-only package.

For primetime families, _Disney Channel_ and Disney-owned _ABCFamily_ along with it. For primetime adults, _USA_, _SciFi_, and _FX_. Along with _TNT_ which we already have, that five HD channels would give us a whole six (6) cable nationals with some new popular general audience programming in HD that the Nielsens and advertisers (as opposed to Dish, me and you) say many folks watch.

Finally, _Nickelodeon_'s Spongebob every day gets higher ratings than many primetime network shows. I'm not sure what one gains in having it in HD, but if Dish had it and _MTV_ along with the five new ones suggested above, IMO Dish's HD-only package would have broad marketing appeal.

Think about it. Dish could accomplish this just by adding seven channels on bandwidth currently available. The package already has 6 "basically-movie" channels and a bunch of HD specialty channels.

Oh yeah, Dish will also have to spend big bucks on clever marketing decisions focused on how you can get HD within a tight family budget. After all, Dish is the value oriented cable alternative.

This is not based on my personal viewing habits. I don't watch Disney and do watch regularly three other channels with critically acclaimed new scripted programming. I just want Dish to succeed. And I don't think the latest email I got telling me "Play your favorite games!" is going to do it. With the infrastructure investment involved, its worthless to pick off the fringes of the market until you are sure you can keep a significant piece of the majority of the the households.

That's my valuable opinion which, like Hounds' opinion, with a dollar will buy a cup of coffee at MacDonalds.


----------



## kblee

Hound said:


> It is estimated that 29 million will have a blu ray player this year. That alone is penetration of over 20 percent.


Did you just make this up? There won't even be 1/4 of that number. :nono2:


----------



## lionsrule

Don't FORGET that every PS3 has a bluray drive in it. How many of those are in households ALREADY in the U.S.? Google it.......over 9 MILLION right now.

Most estimates are that sony will hit close to 20 million in ps3s by end of 2008.

How many stand alone blurays are there? I have no idea.

http://nexgenwars.com/

Gotta get the education before you let the bs fall outta yur mouths.....


----------



## kblee

lionsrule said:


> Don't FORGET that every PS3 has a bluray drive in it. How many of those are in households ALREADY in the U.S.? Google it.......over 9 MILLION right now.
> 
> Most estimates are that sony will hit close to 20 million in ps3s by end of 2008.
> 
> How many stand alone blurays are there? I have no idea.
> 
> http://nexgenwars.com/
> 
> Gotta get the education before you let the bs fall outta yur mouths.....


Wrong - that is a worldwide number. It's only 3.25 million PS3 consoles sold in the US as of 1/1/08. That would mean they'd have to sell 4 million more this year (less the paltry stand alone player numbers) to hit the 1/4 that I mentioned. Not gonna happen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3

Looks like you're the one needing the education.


----------



## Cappyxavs

lionsrule said:


> Don't FORGET that every PS3 has a bluray drive in it. How many of those are in households ALREADY in the U.S.? Google it.......over 9 MILLION right now.
> 
> Most estimates are that sony will hit close to 20 million in ps3s by end of 2008.
> 
> How many stand alone blurays are there? I have no idea.
> 
> http://nexgenwars.com/
> 
> Gotta get the education before you let the bs fall outta yur mouths.....


you may be correct in assuming this now that the format war is over. ps3 numbers were never even counted when polling b) vs hd-dvd players in any givin home.


----------



## James Long

:backtotop


----------



## FogCutter

James Long said:


> :backtotop


What were we talking about?


----------



## The Sandman

If dish doesn't start adding HD next week, I have to go back to Direct. Chalk it up to bad luck or bad karma, I want those new HD channels!


----------



## SDizzle

The Sandman said:


> If dish doesn't start adding HD next week, I have to go back to Direct. Chalk it up to bad luck or bad karma, I want those new HD channels!


Why wait until next week? Come on over now:lol:


----------



## The Sandman

SDizzle said:


> Why wait until next week? Come on over now:lol:


I will wait until Wednesday. Let's see what happens.


----------



## HDRoberts

Just to respond to a point in the now closed Sci-fi/USA HD Bandwidth thread:

Someone mentioned that maybe Sci-Fi HD isn't that important because Hannah Montana/Spongebob/The Hills had higher ratings that the BSG premiere. Have you considered demographics? 18-49 (or even narrower 18-25) year old men are the top catch for advertising. What do you suppose had more 18-49 year old men watching: Hannah Montana, a "tween girl" show, kids show Spongebob, "The Hills" reality show about some spoiled girl from Orange County, or BSG? I bet BSG had more of the target demographic that at least the first 2 combined, maybe even all three. Plus, I don't think to may kids or tweens are going to talk mom and dad into switching providers over not getting their shows in HD, whereas plenty of BSG viewers seem willing to move to Direct over it.


----------



## texaswolf

HDRoberts said:


> Just to respond to a point in the now closed Sci-fi/USA HD Bandwidth thread:
> 
> Someone mentioned that maybe Sci-Fi HD isn't that important because Hannah Montana/Spongebob/The Hills had higher ratings that the BSG premiere. Have you considered demographics? 18-49 (or even narrower 18-25) year old men are the top catch for advertising. What do you suppose had more 18-49 year old men watching: Hannah Montana, a "tween girl" show, kids show Spongebob, "The Hills" reality show about some spoiled girl from Orange County, or BSG? I bet BSG had more of the target demographic that at least the first 2 combined, maybe even all three. Plus, I don't think to may kids or tweens are going to talk mom and dad into switching providers over not getting their shows in HD, whereas plenty of BSG viewers seem willing to move to Direct over it.


Agreed...seems TV guide thinks it was a good premier:

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-e...ys-News/Battlestar-Galatica-Returns/800036979

Battlestar Galactica Returns to Stellar Ratings

080407battlestar.jpg
Battlestar Galactica by Carole Segal/Sci Fi Channel
Battlestar Galactica roared back into action Friday night, as the Season 4 premiere delivered more than 2.1 million total viewers - a 19 percent increase over the January 2007 bow of Season 3.5. BSG also emerged as *cable's No. 1 prime-time program in Sci Fi Channel's key 25-54 demo.*

Numbers-wise, Battlestar also proved once and for all its appeal to womenfolk, scoring its best-ever female audience when 606,000 women 18-49 tuned in.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HDRoberts said:


> Just to respond to a point in the now closed Sci-fi/USA HD Bandwidth thread:
> 
> Someone mentioned that maybe Sci-Fi HD isn't that important because Hannah Montana/Spongebob/The Hills had higher ratings that the BSG premiere. Have you considered demographics? 18-49 (or even narrower 18-25) year old men are the top catch for advertising. What do you suppose had more 18-49 year old men watching: Hannah Montana, a "tween girl" show, kids show Spongebob, "The Hills" reality show about some spoiled girl from Orange County, or BSG? I bet BSG had more of the target demographic that at least the first 2 combined, maybe even all three. Plus, I don't think to may kids or tweens are going to talk mom and dad into switching providers over not getting their shows in HD, whereas plenty of BSG viewers seem willing to move to Direct over it.


i have atarted watching a lot of sci-fi since i went D. even the non HD stuff looks tons cleaner on the HD channel.

if sci-fi is available to E then it should be turned on to ease some tension.


----------



## normang

The Sandman said:


> If dish doesn't start adding HD next week, I have to go back to Direct. Chalk it up to bad luck or bad karma, I want those new HD channels!


Hurry up and go, can't wait to stop hearing you whine... What a life, I am missing a few HD channels, I can't wait a little while, I'm going to switch... (then next week after you switch they all appear on Dish and more, that would be poetic)


----------



## texaswolf

normang said:


> Hurry up and go, can't wait to stop hearing you whine... What a life, I am missing a few HD channels, I can't wait a little while, I'm going to switch... (then next week after you switch they all appear on Dish and more, that would be poetic)


1. If it ended up on Dish next week it would be due, not poetic.

2. easy on the personal attacks, no need for it.


----------



## tsmacro

texaswolf said:


> Agreed...seems TV guide thinks it was a good premier:
> 
> http://community.tvguide.com/blog-e...ys-News/Battlestar-Galatica-Returns/800036979
> 
> Battlestar Galactica Returns to Stellar Ratings
> 
> 080407battlestar.jpg
> Battlestar Galactica by Carole Segal/Sci Fi Channel
> Battlestar Galactica roared back into action Friday night, as the Season 4 premiere delivered more than 2.1 million total viewers - a 19 percent increase over the January 2007 bow of Season 3.5. BSG also emerged as *cable's No. 1 prime-time program in Sci Fi Channel's key 25-54 demo.*
> 
> Numbers-wise, Battlestar also proved once and for all its appeal to womenfolk, scoring its best-ever female audience when 606,000 women 18-49 tuned in.


Careful the next thing you'll get told is that it's not worth adding Sci-Fi for "just one show". Of course Sci-Fi manages to rate consistantly among the top 20 cable /satellite channels whether they're showing new eps of BSG or not. But I guess because there's a few higher rated shows on some other channels there's those who think that Sci-Fi isn't worthy for some reason. Personally I don't get it anyway, i'm all for adding as much HD as possible ASAP. Why some people feel the need to say "you're favorite channel doesn't deserve it, add the Hannah Montana channel instead" I have no clue.


----------



## Cappyxavs

normang said:


> Hurry up and go, can't wait to stop hearing you whine... What a life, I am missing a few HD channels, I can't wait a little while, I'm going to switch... (then next week after you switch they all appear on Dish and more, that would be poetic)


that's the whole point of this thread "to whine"

how about a new dire straits song for this decade.... I want my E-HD:lol:


----------



## James Long

When will MTV actually be in HD? Not MHD, but MTV, VH1, CMT. Have they started showing regular HD yet?


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> When will MTV actually be in HD? Not MHD, but MTV, VH1, CMT. Have they started showing regular HD yet?


That's too funny i don't watch them very much if any but i just did a channel scan and... what's the point of having them as a HD channel when they have no HD content


----------



## texaswolf

Cappyxavs said:


> That's too funny i don't watch them very much if any but i just did a channel scan and... what's the point of having them as a HD channel when they have no HD content


yeah, i would rather have them other MTV stations (hits, jams, ect.) that actually show videos in HD...CMT doesen't show videos anymore either does it? Just shows?


----------



## braven

James Long said:


> When will MTV actually be in HD? Not MHD, but MTV, VH1, CMT. Have they started showing regular HD yet?


That's a good question. You would think that since MHD is fed by the three networks, getting some HD content on wouldn't be that difficult.


----------



## normang

texaswolf said:


> 1. If it ended up on Dish next week it would be due, not poetic.
> 2. easy on the personal attacks, no need for it.


Due perhaps, but if someone spends time and money to switch from A to B, and then A gets everything that B has, and perhaps more, then to complete the phrase, poetic justice, means that the whole process accomplished nothing, because of a lack of patience. While perhaps the switcher won't care, those that keep posting they are going to switch, should just do it.. then they would have nothing to whine about.

As I've said a couple times in various threads, its only a matter of time, with just a few exceptions, both services are going to have the same channels. If they get enough capacity in orbit, they may even cover all the same DMA's with some exceptions, so your choice becomes perhaps one of locals, and whether some sports package or some other channel that A does not have that B does makes your choice.

And when did encouraging someone to move on and just switch become a personal attack, my definition of a personal attack must be different.. However, I'll see what I can do to stop whining about the whiners...


----------



## normang

Hound said:


> Cablevision press releases, Cablevision quarterly financial statements have the number of Voom subs. Easy to figure out E* subs if you subtract cablevision subs. TV predictions has a lot of the info and the nielsen reports also have some. D* had to disclose its HD subs in the HDNET lawsuit. Comcast has announced HD subs.


Sorry if I find a Cable companies press release data somewhat speculative. I would not consider Cablevision or Comcast, or any other cable companies info as authortative on anything relevant to Dish or the dicussion...


----------



## killzone

normang said:


> Due perhaps, but if someone spends time and money to switch from A to B, and then A gets everything that B has, and perhaps more, then to complete the phrase, poetic justice, means that the whole process accomplished nothing, because of a lack of patience. While perhaps the switcher won't care, those that keep posting they are going to switch, should just do it.. then they would have nothing to whine about.
> 
> As I've said a couple times in various threads, its only a matter of time, with just a few exceptions, both services are going to have the same channels. If they get enough capacity in orbit, they may even cover all the same DMA's with some exceptions, so your choice becomes perhaps one of locals, and whether some sports package or some other channel that A does not have that B does makes your choice.
> 
> And when did encouraging someone to move on and just switch become a personal attack, my definition of a personal attack must be different.. However, I'll see what I can do to stop whining about the whiners...


Actually it does accomplish something. It's called voting with your wallet. If Echostar can get away with not putting up channels that are readilly available on other services and no one leaves, then why bother putting them up.

I wouldn't agree that it's comming soon. It's been comming soon for over 4 months now. They can make excuses all day long, but the bottom line is the competition has it and they don't. If you feel like bending over and taking it feel free.


----------



## normang

killzone said:


> Actually it does accomplish something. It's called voting with your wallet. If Echostar can get away with not putting up channels that are readilly available on other services and no one leaves, then why bother putting them up.
> 
> I wouldn't agree that it's coming soon. It's been coming soon for over 4 months now. They can make excuses all day long, but the bottom line is the competition has it and they don't. If you feel like bending over and taking it feel free.


Your assuming that somehow Dish doesn't really want to deliver these channels. Your premise of "get away with" implies they are doing this just to spite us all, seems pretty arrogant to me.

I suspect if Dish could have, these channels would already be up. It would be nice to actually be able to know all the specific reasons why these channels are not up, I believe its bandwidth related, and they would prefer to roll out local DMA's then a few HD Channels to a niche market. Because they can find more subscribers with locals than a few HD channels.

And yes, I said niche market.. While I don't have stats, I think its safe to say that out of the 13 million or so Dish subs, I'd bet that 10 million or more do NOT have HD, nor will they anytime soon. Your also assuming that 4 months is somehow a unrealistically long time... its not.

Sure people can always vote with their wallet, however it has to make some sense in the first place to do it. And somehow, being overly impatient over a handful of HD Channels, doesn't make sense... its only TV.....


----------



## allargon

normang said:
 

> Lloyd, if Direct has your locals and Dish does not, that makes sense to me... However, just switching for the sake of a couple HD channels, that will eventually be airing on Dish makes no sense to me...
> 
> Bobby, one can make all sorts of excuses to justify most any action. If some HD channel were so important that one could not wait for it to appear on Dish, I don't think that's a justification to switch.
> 
> If a single channel that I think I'll like is not on Dish, if I've never seen it, how would I know I'll even like it or care that its there.
> 
> Based on all the rumors, many of the HD channels that Direct now has will eventually appear on Dish, it may take them a while for various reasons.. perhaps related to cost or related to bandwidth.. Perhaps if any of the rumors being discussed are accurate, a few will show up in the next few weeks.
> 
> If you are so concerned about cost, and based on my reading to get same for same content, you are not going to save anything by switching near as I can tell. If the only thing holding you back is locals, and OTA does not work for you, your stuck I guess. And perhaps by the time Direct has your locals, all the HD you think your missing will be on Dish and it will all be a moot point.


A while may be as much a 3 years from now. Life is too short for that. I get HD locals via OTA (rabbit ears). None of the providers in my area (except maybe U-verse) offer all the HD locals (like the CW affiliate which actually has the best PQ due to no subchannels). I'm under contract until this fall. Afterwards, I will consider switching. That would be a full year w/o any new national HD.

I'm a suburban satellite customer that has a choice between cable (Time Warner), IPTV (U-verse) plus the two national satellite providers. I switched to Dish because I was irritated by how TWC treated me as a customer. I will dump Dish if need be as well. Paying ($120/mo in my case) money to a company that gives less than stellar service when there are alternatives makes no sense to me.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Why wait. If you only have 6 months left on the contract, it'll cost you about $75.00 to cancel. You can save much more then that with the new customer offers that D* currently has. IMHO, having a short time left on a contract is a poor excuse for not changing providers.


----------



## Cappyxavs

personally i switched, it would take more than hd channels to get me back, now that i'm here with d i do not anticipate leaving and i really don't care what my local channels do as i plan to purchase sunday ticket. it worked for me but it does not mean it would work for everyone. i'm thinking most have the same hesitations that no one really wants to have to go through the chance and agrevation of switching providers. my particular cercumstance is i have three HD TVs in the house so HD is a main priority for me. 

I think if E just threw everyone a bone like Sci-fi HD it would appease the masses for a while but they at least have to do something they have been doing nothing!


----------



## The Sandman

normang said:


> Hurry up and go, can't wait to stop hearing you whine... What a life, I am missing a few HD channels, I can't wait a little while, I'm going to switch... (then next week after you switch they all appear on Dish and more, that would be poetic)


Do you feel better now? Why are you reading and posting in this thead in the first place? At least I am making my feelings known in the correct place.


----------



## James Long

To put it rudely --- who cares about your feelings?

The topic is (roughly) the lack of new HD on DISH network, not any member's emotional status. This thread was created because there is more to talk about than the lack of HD on DISH. This thread allows people to express their opinion on THE ISSUE while allowing other threads to discuss other topics uninterrupted.

Perhaps feelings are better shared with a priest or minister, psychiatrist or spouse. Someone who can help. Let's talk about DBS.

And, as requested, leave the insults out of the thread and off the forum completely.


----------



## Cappyxavs

""I Want My E-HD"" 
Sung to the tune of "i want my m-tv" but not really because Mtv hd has no hd even though they have a hd channel


----------



## daleles

Is it possible the bandwidth for the 110 and 129 satellites are full and Dish cannot add any new HD channels because the new satellite, E11 hasn't been launched yet? From what I've read, the new E11 (once operational) would have more TP's/bandwidth and if it was supposed to be turned on back in December, we would have gotten more new HD channels by now. Since no new satellite has been successfully launched yet, we are stuck with nothing new. What do you guys think?


----------



## bruin95

daleles said:


> Is it possible the bandwidth for the 110 and 129 satellites are full and Dish cannot add any new HD channels because the new satellite, E11 hasn't been launched yet? From what I've read, the new E11 (once operational) would have more TP's/bandwidth and if it was supposed to be turned on back in December, we would have gotten more new HD channels by now. Since no new satellite has been successfully launched yet, we are stuck with nothing new. What do you guys think?


Nope. Contract negotiations and nothing more.


----------



## James Long

Cappyxavs said:


> ""I Want My E-HD""
> Sung to the tune of "i want my m-tv" but not really because Mtv hd has no hd even though they have a hd channel


Sung to the tune of the last video aired on MTV?

(Probably not true ... just the common impression of MTV and their lack of actual music videos.
They are TV about music now - and other programs.)


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> Sung to the tune of the last video aired on MTV?
> 
> (Probably not true ... just the common impression of MTV and their lack of actual music videos.
> They are TV about music now - and other programs.)


oh yeah that's right they use to play Music videos on mtv at one time didn't they:lol:


----------



## jmsteffen

Let's just all sign the following petition and send it to E*:

*WE WANT IT ALL!*

... kind of says it all.


----------



## Hound

normang said:


> Sorry if I find a Cable companies press release data somewhat speculative. I would not consider Cablevision or Comcast, or any other cable companies info as authortative on anything relevant to Dish or the dicussion...


The press releases are about information released in quarterly earnings reports.
HD penetration and where E* stands is very relevant to this discussion. My point is E* is in last place in HD penetration because of decisions made at the top about
HD programming. The general public (e.g. the first time HD buyer at Walmart) has
not bought into E* as a HD provider. Hence E*'s low HD penetration. Yes, E* has a good HD DVR and Voom has some very good material. But E* ignored the basics of HD locals and HD RSNs while cable, D* and Verizon did not. A first time HD buyer
is not going to pay $25 a month extra for a suite of HD channels they never heard
of, SD locals and no HD RSN when the competition has HD locals, HD RSNs
and the basic ESPN HD, TNT HD, HDnet, Discovery HD, etc. for either $9.99 or free.


----------



## James Long

Hound said:


> A first time HD buyer is not going to pay $25 a month extra for a suite of HD channels they never heard of, SD locals and no HD RSN when the competition has HD locals, HD RSNs and the basic ESPN HD, TNT HD, HDnet, Discovery HD, etc. for either $9.99 or free.


Who is charging $25 a month extra? Not DISH.

Take a regular package with locals and add $10 DishHD Essentials and you'll have the basic "upconvert" channels ... plus any HD locals that are available via satellite or OTA and HD RSNs (if you subscribe to AT100 Plus or higher).

Giving people the OPTION of not buying locals shouldn't be counted against DISH, nor should you be using the $20 DishHD Ultimate price for the comparison. (HD Net is in Essentials, BTW.) $25? Not DISH.


----------



## Hound

James Long said:


> Who is charging $25 a month extra? Not DISH.
> 
> Take a regular package with locals and add $10 DishHD Essentials and you'll have the basic "upconvert" channels ... plus any HD locals that are available via satellite or OTA and HD RSNs (if you subscribe to AT100 Plus or higher).
> 
> Giving people the OPTION of not buying locals shouldn't be counted against DISH, nor should you be using the $20 DishHD Ultimate price for the comparison. (HD Net is in Essentials, BTW.) $25? Not DISH.


I am not talking about the current pricing. I am talking about last year's pricing
and why E* is where it is today with HD subs. I am suggesting that E* needs to make better decisions about the direction of its HD programming. We all hope that E* adds new HD, and E* will eventually have the HD that was announced.
But just having USA HD, SciFi HD, etc. is not going to win over new subs from
cable, D* and Verizon.
E* needs to get back on track with a HD programming package that is priced competitively and has the HD channels that will attract the 30 or 40 million new HD subs that purchase HD sets over the next five years.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Hound said:


> A first time HD buyer
> is not going to pay $25 a month extra for a suite of HD channels they never heard
> of, SD locals and no HD RSN when the competition has HD locals, HD RSNs
> and the basic ESPN HD, TNT HD, HDnet, Discovery HD, etc. for either $9.99 or free.


typicaly here's how it works...

those with cable most of the time just upgrade to the HD tier as they either don't want to be bothered with a dish, can't place a dish or believe the "kick the dish in the rain commercials.

those who do change are usually the ones who researched thier options, are not affraid of change, want more for the same money as cable, want better sports packs etc.

in other words folks like my dad will have a basic analog tier for as long as it is avaiable after that they will be forced to conform to digital.


----------



## Hound

Cappyxavs said:


> typicaly here's how it works...
> 
> those with cable most of the time just upgrade to the HD tier as they either don't want to be bothered with a dish, can't place a dish or believe the "kick the dish in the rain commercials.
> 
> those who do change are usually the ones who researched thier options, are not affraid of change, want more for the same money as cable, want better sports packs etc.
> 
> in other words folks like my dad will have a basic analog tier for as long as it is avaiable after that they will be forced to conform to digital.


To some extent you are correct. However, both E* and D* began their growth from nothing ten years ago to the 2nd and 3rd largest multivideo providers by
taking subs from cable. E* and D* had packages that were cheaper than cable and had better programming. To continue to grow with HD sets and blue ray players priced at what I call everyman's price, both E* and D* must be HD competitively priced and provide comprable or better HD programming than cable.
Last year E* was not there. Adding NESN HD was a very good move by E*. It
was absolutely necessary to be competitive for signing up new HD subs in a six state market, and to hold on to some existing HD subs. But even in those six states with only four HD locals in some markets and none in others and the absence of the other HD RSN (CSNNE HD), whose team has the best record in the NBA, E* is fighting an uphill battle in 2008. Sci Fi HD and USA HD is not going to
help E* without getting the basics done first (seven local HD channels and HD
RSNs in all of its markets).

My father is 85 and will never get HD. There are a lot of people like that. But over the next ten years there will be fewer and fewer.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Hound said:


> My father is 85 and will never get HD. There are a lot of people like that. But over the next ten years there will be fewer and fewer.


absolutly correct... where once the older gen wanted no more than simplicity the new gen will accept the one box per tv method (unless you have the 622/722 which can backfeed). in short a whole new change is comming to the tv market and in my opinion cable is going to find thier once high and mighty kingdom up for grabs.

i have had sat tv since 2003 and the only thing i regret is not getting it sooner. i could never go back to cable again for tv viewing.

actualy what kept me from sat was the rain commercials 
what led me to sat was my local cable company in 2003 did not have sci-fi and didn't seem to care about getting it so i went to E to try it out. i've never thought of going back.


----------



## klegg

Hound said:


> I am not talking about the current pricing. I am talking about last year's pricing
> and why E* is where it is today with HD subs. I am suggesting that E* needs to make better decisions about the direction of its HD programming. We all hope that E* adds new HD, and E* will eventually have the HD that was announced.
> But just having USA HD, SciFi HD, etc. is not going to win over new subs from
> cable, D* and Verizon.
> E* needs to get back on track with a HD programming package that is priced competitively and has the HD channels that will attract the 30 or 40 million new HD subs that purchase HD sets over the next five years.


The problem with your logic, while I understand what you're trying to say, is flawed in that E* was the CLEAR leader in ALL of these categories until October of last year. So, if by "last year's pricing", you're trying to compare D*/cable with E*, it's apples and oranges.

That is what mystifies me most about everyone in an uproar. E* provided you with almost twice as much HD viewing for several years and now they have issues with two satellite launches and everyone says they're the devil.

I DON'T take issue with people who simply want to switch to another provider to get more HD, but the problem is they get on here and act like E* is purposely sticking it to them.


----------



## paja

Cappyxavs said:


> absolutly correct... where once the older gen wanted no more than simplicity the new gen will accept the one box per tv method (unless you have the 622/722 which can backfeed). in short a whole new change is comming to the tv market and in my opinion cable is going to find thier once high and mighty kingdom up for grabs.
> 
> i have had sat tv since 2003 and the only thing i regret is not getting it sooner. i could never go back to cable again for tv viewing.
> 
> actualy what kept me from sat was the rain commercials
> what led me to sat was my local cable company in 2003 did not have sci-fi and didn't seem to care about getting it so i went to E to try it out. i've never thought of going back.


I find it amazing that after dumping cable back in the early 90's, I find myself possibly going back. I dumped cable for limited choice and lousy service. Went to Primestar which then morphed into D. I had D for many years(happily) until they botched my upgrade to hd and an hd dvr. Got E and have been very happy with them until recently. This situation with the additional hd stations is not only becoming tiresome because we can't get stations we want, but the utter lack of info from the company is troubling.

I have considered going back to D( have 4 months left on my E commitment) but recently have begun to check out Comcast which is the cable company in Orland Park. They are more expensive but cost is not the major consideration for me. Getting the stations I want is. They now have more hd than E including Sci and USA. On my most recent internet bill it stated that were adding Disney HD and ABC Family HD to the hd cable lineup. To complicate things further, last week I got a mailer from AT&T indicating that AT&T U-verse is being made available and has a special offer of 3 HD receivers with one being a dvr for $0. I'm going to have to check them out as I haven't had the chance to view their lineup as to stations and hd stations. If I find that the dvr from either Comcast or AT&T are decent I may be switching soon. It will only cost me 50 for the early drop fee and if E doesn't have either some new hd by the end of April or the very least some hard and firm dates for expansion, I'm gone. And being a sub that has the "everything I can get" package, I don't think I'm the type of sub they want to lose.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Comcast has said it can pack three high-definition signals into space typically used for two-without viewers noticing a drop in quality.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6545648.html


----------



## James Long

Hound said:


> I am not talking about the current pricing. I am talking about last year's pricing


Why? You're living in the past if you use "last year's pricing" ... and it is a false past if you stick with that $25 figure.

You might as well say that DISH charges $9.99 for five HD channels (ESPN, HDNet, HDNet Movies, HD Theater and TNT) and complain about the lack of HD in a package that DISH stopped marketing in 2006.



> E* needs to get back on track with a HD programming package that is priced competitively and has the HD channels that will attract the 30 or 40 million new HD subs that purchase HD sets over the next five years.


If you pull yourself out of the past, drop the bogus $25 figure and look at the $10 Essentials package you will see they _are_ on track. Adding new HD locals markets and doubling the number of channels in Essentials (by the end of the year) are more steps on that "track".


----------



## Cappyxavs

paja said:


> I find it amazing that after dumping cable back in the early 90's, I find myself possibly going back. I dumped cable for limited choice and lousy service. Went to Primestar which then morphed into D. I had D for many years(happily) until they botched my upgrade to hd and an hd dvr. Got E and have been very happy with them until recently. This situation with the additional hd stations is not only becoming tiresome because we can't get stations we want, but the utter lack of info from the company is troubling.
> 
> I have considered going back to D( have 4 months left on my E commitment) but recently have begun to check out Comcast which is the cable company in Orland Park. They are more expensive but cost is not the major consideration for me. Getting the stations I want is. They now have more hd than E including Sci and USA. On my most recent internet bill it stated that were adding Disney HD and ABC Family HD to the hd cable lineup. To complicate things further, last week I got a mailer from AT&T indicating that AT&T U-verse is being made available and has a special offer of 3 HD receivers with one being a dvr for $0. I'm going to have to check them out as I haven't had the chance to view their lineup as to stations and hd stations. If I find that the dvr from either Comcast or AT&T are decent I may be switching soon. It will only cost me 50 for the early drop fee and if E doesn't have either some new hd by the end of April or the very least some hard and firm dates for expansion, I'm gone. And being a sub that has the "everything I can get" package, I don't think I'm the type of sub they want to lose.


compare D to comcast. i did my local comcast has maybe 17 hd chammels while d has many more. if you include prems and locals comcast has 23-30 while d has about 63 if d had locals then it would be 23-30 compared to d having 70. this is a comparison in my local market only and may not reflect cable in your market. but you can see in my market D makes more sense.


----------



## texaswolf

klegg said:


> That is what mystifies me most about everyone in an uproar. E* provided you with almost twice as much HD viewing for several years and now they have issues with two satellite launches and everyone says they're the devil.


I think because your starting to see more and more "nationals" going HD....and other providers are lighting them up, is what the difference is now. What people are not taking into consideration is that now 2 sats have have had issues, not the subs fault, no....but subs also have to take in that they are trying to do something...of course the "room right now for some channels" debate is valid...but it's just going to have to come down to personal patience. If people want to leave because they want channels now, i don't blame them....if they want to stay because of the dvr and other things and wait, I don't blame them either...


----------



## fredp

Its all a soap opera. When will the HD channels light up! Tune in next time to "As the Satellite Turns". :lol:


----------



## texaswolf

fredp said:


> Its all a soap opera. When will the HD channels light up! Tune in next time to "As the Satellite Turns". :lol:


lol....It's not really Charlie running things...it's his evil twin Mortimer, who wants to ruin Charlie by destroying his company, all the while Charlie is tied up in a secret cabin somewhere.:lol:


----------



## klegg

texaswolf said:


> lol....It's not really Charlie running things...it's his evil twin Mortimer, who wants to ruin Charlie by destroying his company, all the while Charlie is tied up in a secret cabin somewhere.:lol:


...and Mortimer is sleeping with Charlie's wife...


----------



## joemama41

I've been lurking in the shadows of this thread and other similar ones and I have a few things I'd like to voice my opinion on.

1) Addition of HD Locals on 61.5: If you are in a local market that has just been added, and you're not being required to pay anything for the dish install (a commitment does not count as payment) or additional channels, you are in no way being victimized. It's not as if the dish antenna, LNBF, cabling and so on are free for Dish to provide, so it's not unreasonable for you to agree to remain a customer.

2) Commitments in general: You are not locked into a commitment. We live in a wonderful capitalist society in which we have a variety of choices as to who provides services to us. When you are electing (read: choosing) to sign up for a commitment, you are getting a discount or promotional deal that has direct financial benefits to you. As a result, you are expected to give back. At the time you sign up for a commitment of any sort, you should be thinking about what sort of service you expect (i.e. specific national HD channels) over the duration of the commitment, and evaluate whether that is a realistic expectation. I realize that some of you think that you have been signed up on false premises, etc. and I am not speaking to you because your concerns are valid.

3) "Promised" HD: There has been much said about how Dish never communicates what channels are coming or that when things are communicated that they are not specific in time frame. Dish has publicly stated 100 channels of national HD by year's end and 100 local markets by year's end. That seems clear that at the very latest, you can expect those channels by 12/31/2008. Specific date. They also laid out in a press release what markets are being added over the course of April and May. Finally, and this has been addressed by others, featuring an actress from BSG on Charlie Chat is a way for SciFi to promote their show to Dish customers. If SciFi HD was going to be added, you would've heard something along the lines of, "Just in time for the premiere of the final season of Battlestar Galactica, we're giving you the SciFi Channel in HD. Celebrate accordingly."

I'll finish with what I tell my two-year-old 20-30 times a day.

Have patience.


----------



## aloishus27

joemama41 said:


> I've been lurking in the shadows of this thread and other similar ones and I have a few things I'd like to voice my opinion on.
> 
> 1) Addition of HD Locals on 61.5: If you are in a local market that has just been added, and you're not being required to pay anything for the dish install (a commitment does not count as payment) or additional channels, you are in no way being victimized. It's not as if the dish antenna, LNBF, cabling and so on are free for Dish to provide, so it's not unreasonable for you to agree to remain a customer.
> 
> 2) Commitments in general: You are not locked into a commitment. We live in a wonderful capitalist society in which we have a variety of choices as to who provides services to us. When you are electing (read: choosing) to sign up for a commitment, you are getting a discount or promotional deal that has direct financial benefits to you. As a result, you are expected to give back. At the time you sign up for a commitment of any sort, you should be thinking about what sort of service you expect (i.e. specific national HD channels) over the duration of the commitment, and evaluate whether that is a realistic expectation. I realize that some of you think that you have been signed up on false premises, etc. and I am not speaking to you because your concerns are valid.
> 
> 3) "Promised" HD: There has been much said about how Dish never communicates what channels are coming or that when things are communicated that they are not specific in time frame. Dish has publicly stated 100 channels of national HD by year's end and 100 local markets by year's end. That seems clear that at the very latest, you can expect those channels by 12/31/2008. Specific date. They also laid out in a press release what markets are being added over the course of April and May. Finally, and this has been addressed by others, featuring an actress from BSG on Charlie Chat is a way for SciFi to promote their show to Dish customers. If SciFi HD was going to be added, you would've heard something along the lines of, "Just in time for the premiere of the final season of Battlestar Galactica, we're giving you the SciFi Channel in HD. Celebrate accordingly."
> 
> I'll finish with what I tell my two-year-old 20-30 times a day.
> 
> Have patience.


I could not have said this better myself. It's like a Hallmark card. Bravo sir. Bravo!


----------



## joemama41

Thank you. *Takes bow.*

Now for the backlash...


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Now for the backlash...


*posts some backlash*

not really, very valid points...


----------



## Cappyxavs

my opinion has always been to order everything you want at sign up. i am very happy to sign a commitment when i am happy that i have what i need for that term. it's much better than skimping and wishing that i had gone the extra step. i also look forward to the end of my contract as new goodies can be had with another commitment. 

with the profesional instal and the nice discounts on the units as well as the savings per month for a year i was more than happy to sign a commit. 

i have to say i am very pleased i am watching Star wars VI on spike HD and it is incredible!! 

for those who are staying with E and have commitments just hold on they have had a run of bad luck with thier birds but at least they did try to do something for you. you gotta give charlie some credit.


----------



## lionsrule

joemama41 said:


> I've been lurking in the shadows of this thread and other similar ones and I have a few things I'd like to voice my opinion on.
> 
> 1) Addition of HD Locals on 61.5: If you are in a local market that has just been added, and you're not being required to pay anything for the dish install (a commitment does not count as payment) or additional channels, you are in no way being victimized. It's not as if the dish antenna, LNBF, cabling and so on are free for Dish to provide, so it's not unreasonable for you to agree to remain a customer.
> 
> 2) Commitments in general: You are not locked into a commitment. We live in a wonderful capitalist society in which we have a variety of choices as to who provides services to us. When you are electing (read: choosing) to sign up for a commitment, you are getting a discount or promotional deal that has direct financial benefits to you. As a result, you are expected to give back. At the time you sign up for a commitment of any sort, you should be thinking about what sort of service you expect (i.e. specific national HD channels) over the duration of the commitment, and evaluate whether that is a realistic expectation. I realize that some of you think that you have been signed up on false premises, etc. and I am not speaking to you because your concerns are valid.
> 
> 3) "Promised" HD: There has been much said about how Dish never communicates what channels are coming or that when things are communicated that they are not specific in time frame. Dish has publicly stated 100 channels of national HD by year's end and 100 local markets by year's end. That seems clear that at the very latest, you can expect those channels by 12/31/2008. Specific date. They also laid out in a press release what markets are being added over the course of April and May. Finally, and this has been addressed by others, featuring an actress from BSG on Charlie Chat is a way for SciFi to promote their show to Dish customers. If SciFi HD was going to be added, you would've heard something along the lines of, "Just in time for the premiere of the final season of Battlestar Galactica, we're giving you the SciFi Channel in HD. Celebrate accordingly."
> 
> I'll finish with what I tell my two-year-old 20-30 times a day.
> 
> Have patience.


Considering that this is a no HD GRIPE thread, this is NOT really an appropriate place to use the phrase have patience.

If you want to start a "I don't mind waiting for months or whole seasons for new HD".....go right ahead. I PROMISE I won't threadcrap on you.


----------



## paja

lionsrule said:


> Considering that this is a no HD GRIPE thread, this is NOT really an appropriate place to use the phrase have patience.
> 
> If you want to start a "I don't mind waiting for months or whole seasons for new HD".....go right ahead. I PROMISE I won't threadcrap on you.


:righton: I don't know of any two-year olds that are paying $110 a month for sat. I want more HD NOW!!


----------



## James Long

lionsrule said:


> Considering that this is a no HD GRIPE thread, this is NOT really an appropriate place to use the phrase have patience.
> 
> If you want to start a "I don't mind waiting for months or whole seasons for new HD".....go right ahead. I PROMISE I won't threadcrap on you.


Perhaps it is time to change the name of the thread to better fit it's character.


----------



## Cappyxavs

ok since it's a gripe thread charlie needs to rent a shuttle and get his arse out there and push that darn sat into orbit!! no more excuses GIT ER DUN:hurah: the darn sat probrably flew coach


----------



## James Long

It isn't his satellite to control.


----------



## joemama41

lionsrule said:


> Considering that this is a no HD GRIPE thread, this is NOT really an appropriate place to use the phrase have patience.
> 
> If you want to start a "I don't mind waiting for months or whole seasons for new HD".....go right ahead. I PROMISE I won't threadcrap on you.


And I'm sorry for using an eloquent, thought-out response (aka "threadcrap") to address this thread. I suppose the connotation of "gripe" is a collection of people all saying the same thing, rephrasing it to one another and hoping that someone will press the Easy button from the Staples commercial. I just wanted to address the concerns of many of the people in this thread with my personal opinion, which is theoretically the goal of a messageboard.

If my two-year-old knew about this forum and was Internet-savvy, she'd be on here complaining that Baby First TV and PBS aren't in HD through E*.

With the same level of tact, and patience.


----------



## texaswolf

joemama41 said:


> I've been lurking in the shadows of this thread and other similar ones and I have a few things I'd like to voice my opinion on.
> 
> 1) Addition of HD Locals on 61.5: If you are in a local market that has just been added, and you're not being required to pay anything for the dish install (a commitment does not count as payment) or additional channels, you are in no way being victimized. It's not as if the dish antenna, LNBF, cabling and so on are free for Dish to provide, so it's not unreasonable for you to agree to remain a customer.
> 
> 2) Commitments in general: You are not locked into a commitment. We live in a wonderful capitalist society in which we have a variety of choices as to who provides services to us. When you are electing (read: choosing) to sign up for a commitment, you are getting a discount or promotional deal that has direct financial benefits to you. As a result, you are expected to give back. At the time you sign up for a commitment of any sort, you should be thinking about what sort of service you expect (i.e. specific national HD channels) over the duration of the commitment, and evaluate whether that is a realistic expectation. I realize that some of you think that you have been signed up on false premises, etc. and I am not speaking to you because your concerns are valid.
> 
> 3) "Promised" HD: There has been much said about how Dish never communicates what channels are coming or that when things are communicated that they are not specific in time frame. Dish has publicly stated 100 channels of national HD by year's end and 100 local markets by year's end. That seems clear that at the very latest, you can expect those channels by 12/31/2008. Specific date. They also laid out in a press release what markets are being added over the course of April and May. Finally, and this has been addressed by others, featuring an actress from BSG on Charlie Chat is a way for SciFi to promote their show to Dish customers. If SciFi HD was going to be added, you would've heard something along the lines of, "Just in time for the premiere of the final season of Battlestar Galactica, we're giving you the SciFi Channel in HD. Celebrate accordingly."
> 
> I'll finish with what I tell my two-year-old 20-30 times a day.
> 
> Have patience.


Some good points....however with Dish still claiming "HD Leader" status, that could be considered false premises...in which most if not all complainers here fall under, according to your post...which would mean your not speaking to any of them?


> I realize that some of you think that you have been signed up on false premises, etc. and I am not speaking to you because your concerns are valid.


I have seen quite a few on here that at one time would say "have patience" or "I can wait"....now saying the opposite....all a matter of individual patience and experiences.


----------



## joemama41

texaswolf said:


> Some good points....however with Dish still claiming "HD Leader" status, that could be considered false premises...in which most if not all complainers here fall under, according to your post...which would mean your not speaking to any of them?
> 
> I have seen quite a few on here that at one time would say "have patience" or "I can wait"....now saying the opposite....all a matter of individual patience and experiences.


I'm not certain that "HD Leader" is more misleading than "We will have 100 channels by the end of the year" and not meeting that goal (D*) or "Ditch the dish" because you'll lose signal during bad weather (one of the cable companies). Sounds like par for the course in the TV industry so far as trying to attract new customers.

HD Leader is all about implied meaning, rather than being a direct statement. If you take that to mean that E* has more HD channels than another provider, then I see your point. If it's referring to quality of picture/content or quality of hardware, then there's no implied promise of quantity of channel. In contrast, the other advertisers are pretty clear (and inaccurate) in their implied messages.

I agree in terms of patience. I just feel it's important to note that there are other options available aside from waiting, if patience isn't your thing.


----------



## tsmacro

joemama41 said:


> I'm not certain that "HD Leader" is more misleading than "We will have 100 channels by the end of the year" and not meeting that goal (D*) or "Ditch the dish" because you'll lose signal during bad weather (one of the cable companies). Sounds like par for the course in the TV industry so far as trying to attract new customers.
> 
> HD Leader is all about implied meaning, rather than being a direct statement. If you take that to mean that E* has more HD channels than another provider, then I see your point.


It's all how you "spin" or "frame" it . Directv can claim to be a leader in HD due to channel count, but of course on a lot of those channels the actual amount of HD programming is limited. Dish can claim to be a leader in HD because they have more channels that actually show HD almost all the time and probably therefore have more actual hours of HD programming. And then there's cable who can claim to be a leader in HD because they have more HD "on demand" than either of the satellite companies even if they aren't keeping up in the HD "channel count" in most areas compared to satellite. So yeah pretty much any of the players in the pay tv arena can claim to be a leader in HD and any of them could be considered misleading one way or the other as well. It's called advertising, where you're always going to exagerate your positive attributes to the fullest extent possible. Heck no one is going to put out an ad that says "We used to be the leader..." And anyone who sees an ad and feels it's a personal affront to them somehow because somehow they feel it actually doesn't tell the whole truth  or something needs to get a grip and let it go already.

I know it won't be soon enough but i'm sure Dish will get more HD as soon as they are able. One thing i'm sure of is that they're not adding more HD channels because they don't want to or that they're trying to "stick it" to their customers somehow, there's no conspiracy here. The HD will come, people can either wait or go somewhere else, but one thing that won't make it happen any faster is whining, crying and b!tching about it on a message board. But hey if it makes you feel better by getting it off your chest by all means go for it, just so long as no one is actually deluded enough to think that if they post over and over again about how "Dish needs to add their favorite HD channel or else" it'll actually change anything in any way.


----------



## Jersey Girl

Great points all by joemama (who thought I would ever type THAT sentence in my lifetime!).

I agree with everything he (she?) said. Dish promised 100 HD channels by the end of the year, no sooner. December 31, 2008. December 30, 2008 would be a bonus.

And remember, Dish did not say which channels. We can say what channels are uplinked or talk about Charlie using Tricia Helfer as bait all we want, but the bottom line is there in no commitment to carry ANY specific channel. 

100 channels can mean adding channels DirecTV has now, or adding more Voom channels should they become available, or adding more channels that could be available in December that we don't even know about now, etc.

Since Dish has commited to nothing specific, there is a very real possibility that when 100 HD channels are reached in December, they may not include every channel people want. SciFi, Speed, USA, MSG, and all of the other channels that have been asked for are NOT guaranteed to be part of the 12/31 100. 

We should be clear on that. Maybe the price won't be right, maybe the timing won't be right, and maybe some channels everyone assumes are coming in fact are not.

I understand the point of this thread is to whine, but the only way to make your vote count is with your pocketbook. Charlie has proven time and time again that's what matters, and we can all learn something from him. 

If you like what DirecTV has to offer, go there. If you like Dish better, stay there. It's pretty simple, actually.


----------



## texaswolf

tsmacro said:


> It's all how you "spin" or "frame" it . Directv can claim to be a leader in HD due to channel count, but of course on a lot of those channels the actual amount of HD programming is limited. Dish can claim to be a leader in HD because they have more channels that actually show HD almost all the time and probably therefore have more actual hours of HD programming. And then there's cable who can claim to be a leader in HD because they have more HD "on demand" than either of the satellite companies even if they aren't keeping up in the HD "channel count" in most areas compared to satellite. So yeah pretty much any of the players in the pay tv arena can claim to be a leader in HD and any of them could be considered misleading one way or the other as well. It's called advertising, where you're always going to exagerate your positive attributes to the fullest extent possible. Heck no one is going to put out an ad that says "We used to be the leader..." And anyone who sees an ad and feels it's a personal affront to them somehow because somehow they feel it actually doesn't tell the whole truth  or something needs to get a grip and let it go already.
> 
> I know it won't be soon enough but i'm sure Dish will get more HD as soon as they are able. One thing i'm sure of is that they're not adding more HD channels because they don't want to or that they're trying to "stick it" to their customers somehow, there's no conspiracy here. The HD will come, people can either wait or go somewhere else, but one thing that won't make it happen any faster is whining, crying and b!tching about it on a message board. But hey if it makes you feel better by getting it off your chest by all means go for it, just so long as no one is actually deluded enough to think that if they post over and over again about how "Dish needs to add their favorite HD channel or else" it'll actually change anything in any way.


I can speak from my experiance with the "HD leader" claim....i signed up after asking if they would be carrying certain channels in HD, since Direct was claiming they would be carrying them soon also. I was told that as soon as those channels are available in HD, Dish will carry them, "thats why we are the HD leader". Direct has had those channels now for 6-8 months, and Dish still doesn't. So that is how it was implied to me, and i don't know how many others, but there is no spinning that what so ever. Now I know the new channels are coming, and they are doing they're best on the sats...and I'm fine with it right now...i'm just trying to clarify what a lot of others on here are griping about.

Keep in mind that it may be fine for you to sit and wait, but there are many others who signed up with DIsh for the HD, and promise of new channels....so if they want to rant...let them. As far as pay the cancellation fee and leave....think about it...would you want to pay extra for a service that you are not getting/happy with....just to get rid of it? I don't think so. For people that are not in contract...sure....switch up.

This thread is set up for all those "whiners and complainers", so that it won't pollute the rest of the board...so if you are annoyed by them posting over and over....i would suggest not coming in here, plain and simple....stay with the other threads. People were complaining in other threads about the "whiners"....now that they are in their own area...don't follow them in and complain about complaining....on a complaint board you know what the thread is, what the mood is, and what the complaints are.


----------



## joemama41

Jersey Girl said:


> Great points all by joemama (who thought I would ever type THAT sentence in my lifetime!).
> 
> I agree with everything he (she?) said. Dish promised 100 HD channels by the end of the year, no sooner. December 31, 2008. December 30, 2008 would be a bonus.
> 
> And remember, Dish did not say which channels. We can say what channels are uplinked or talk about Charlie using Tricia Helfer as bait all we want, but the bottom line is there in no commitment to carry ANY specific channel.
> 
> 100 channels can mean adding channels DirecTV has now, or adding more Voom channels should they become available, or adding more channels that could be available in December that we don't even know about now, etc.
> 
> Since Dish has commited to nothing specific, there is a very real possibility that when 100 HD channels are reached in December, they may not include every channel people want. SciFi, Speed, USA, MSG, and all of the other channels that have been asked for are NOT guaranteed to be part of the 12/31 100.
> 
> We should be clear on that. Maybe the price won't be right, maybe the timing won't be right, and maybe some channels everyone assumes are coming in fact are not.
> 
> I understand the point of this thread is to whine, but the only way to make your vote count is with your pocketbook. Charlie has proven time and time again that's what matters, and we can all learn something from him.
> 
> If you like what DirecTV has to offer, go there. If you like Dish better, stay there. It's pretty simple, actually.


And to think I was afraid of Jersey Girl taking me to task (based on previous posts). I grew up in Eastern Pennsylvania, what can I say?


----------



## Jersey Girl

joemama41 said:


> And to think I was afraid of Jersey Girl taking me to task (based on previous posts). I grew up in Eastern Pennsylvania, what can I say?


Awww. Have the mean old Jersey Shore girls been tough on joemama and his Bucks county buddies? :sunsmile:


----------



## FogCutter

Maybe we need a more open definition of "Leader". Does being the HD Leader mean having the most channels, or the best picture quality, or the nicest brochure? Maybe having had more channels sooner a year ago makes them the leader now, and everyone else will be non-leaders no matter how many channels they pick up. Could be a matter of "just keep saying it" and people will believe. 

Oh well. Probably have to wait to get the 4th season of BSG on BluRay to see it in HD.


----------



## Jersey Girl

FogCutter said:


> Maybe we need a more open definition of "Leader". Does being the HD Leader mean having the most channels, or the best picture quality, or the nicest brochure? Maybe having had more channels sooner a year ago makes them the leader now, and everyone else will be non-leaders no matter how many channels they pick up. Could be a matter of "just keep saying it" and people will believe.
> 
> Oh well. Probably have to wait to get the 4th season of BSG on BluRay to see it in HD.


When it comes to advertising 'Leader' means anything you want it to mean. You don't even have to say what you're the leader at, just say you're the leader and it's impossible to refute.

You can be the leader at the most channels, the most channels people want, the most sports, the most non-sports, the loudest machine, the quickest rain fade, the best remote, the worst remote, the longest complaint thread, etc., etc.


----------



## Paul Secic

klegg said:


> The problem with your logic, while I understand what you're trying to say, is flawed in that E* was the CLEAR leader in ALL of these categories until October of last year. So, if by "last year's pricing", you're trying to compare D*/cable with E*, it's apples and oranges.
> 
> That is what mystifies me most about everyone in an uproar. E* provided you with almost twice as much HD viewing for several years and now they have issues with two satellite launches and everyone says they're the devil.
> 
> I DON'T take issue with people who simply want to switch to another provider to get more HD, but the problem is they get on here and act like E* is purposely sticking it to them.


I am not switching to Directv because they charge too much. I am not switching to Comcast because their equipment is JUNK and they charge an arm and a leg. AT&T U-Srve isn't here yet, but their boxes are Motorola like Comcast, so that's out! Three year's from now E & D will have virtually the same amount of HD. So just enjoy what you have.


----------



## TBoneit

I have it on good authority that tommorow moring two new National HD channels will be available to all. 1st one is the paint Drying channel. And just in time for spring the Second channel will be the grass growing channel.  

Sorry i couldn't resist. It's one of those days here at work.


----------



## phrelin

TBoneit said:


> I have it on good authority that tommorow moring two new National HD channels will be available to all. 1st one is the paint Drying channel. And just in time for spring the Second channel will be the grass growing channel.


Wow, finally some more national HD! I'm holding my breath!:sure:


----------



## James Long

TBoneit said:


> I have it on good authority that tommorow moring two new National HD channels will be available to all. 1st one is the paint Drying channel. And just in time for spring the Second channel will be the grass growing channel.


Unfortunately both channels will be in SD stretch-o-vision until HD content is available in early 2009.

The techs should rename a couple of the "test" channels "PAINT" and "GRASS" just to mess with us.


----------



## Cappyxavs

RIPPED OFF AGAIN

I WANTED BASKET WEAVING HD 

darn grass growing channel wins out again... arrrrrgggg!


----------



## tsmacro

texaswolf said:


> Keep in mind that it may be fine for you to sit and wait, but there are many others who signed up with DIsh for the HD, and promise of new channels....so if they want to rant...let them. As far as pay the cancellation fee and leave....think about it...would you want to pay extra for a service that you are not getting/happy with....just to get rid of it? I don't think so. For people that are not in contract...sure....switch up.
> 
> This thread is set up for all those "whiners and complainers", so that it won't pollute the rest of the board...so if you are annoyed by them posting over and over....i would suggest not coming in here, plain and simple....stay with the other threads. People were complaining in other threads about the "whiners"....now that they are in their own area...don't follow them in and complain about complaining....on a complaint board you know what the thread is, what the mood is, and what the complaints are.


Actually I didn't mention whether i'd be waiting or switching. And I didn't tell anyone not to rant, in fact I said if it made them feel better go right ahead, I just pointed out not to actually expect it to amount to anything productive. I also didn't encourage anyone to pay a cancellation fee I merely mentioned that your two choices were wait or switch.

And yeah this thread is for whiners and complainers, so did you really just say I shouldn't come here and complain? :lol: Hey I want more HD too!


----------



## stick30

96% Of The Country Doesn"t Care About Local Hd Channels. Get An Antenna People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where Are These National Channels They So Desperately Needed To Send Out A Press Release On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here Is A Thought.................................................

Don"t Issue A Press Release Telling People You Are Going To ADD HD Channels When You Have No Plan To add some Any Time Soon.

It"s Like A Company Say We Will Have Double Digit Growth.................... But Never Say If It Will Be Next Quarter Or 2019.

Give Me A Break Dish Network..... Keep Your Press Releases Until You Actually Provide Something.

In The Mean Time You Just Lost Another Customer.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I guess you didn't read the press release then? If so, what did it say?


----------



## paja

Jersey Girl said:


> Great points all by joemama (who thought I would ever type THAT sentence in my lifetime!).
> 
> I agree with everything he (she?) said. Dish promised 100 HD channels by the end of the year, no sooner. December 31, 2008. December 30, 2008 would be a bonus.
> 
> And remember, Dish did not say which channels. We can say what channels are uplinked or talk about Charlie using Tricia Helfer as bait all we want, but the bottom line is there in no commitment to carry ANY specific channel.
> 
> 100 channels can mean adding channels DirecTV has now, or adding more Voom channels should they become available, or adding more channels that could be available in December that we don't even know about now, etc.
> 
> Since Dish has commited to nothing specific, there is a very real possibility that when 100 HD channels are reached in December, they may not include every channel people want. SciFi, Speed, USA, MSG, and all of the other channels that have been asked for are NOT guaranteed to be part of the 12/31 100.
> 
> We should be clear on that. Maybe the price won't be right, maybe the timing won't be right, and maybe some channels everyone assumes are coming in fact are not.
> 
> I understand the point of this thread is to whine, but the only way to make your vote count is with your pocketbook. Charlie has proven time and time again that's what matters, and we can all learn something from him.
> 
> If you like what DirecTV has to offer, go there. If you like Dish better, stay there. It's pretty simple, actually.


I know several friends who were told when they signed up( one just cancelled last Friday) by the csr that any DISH channels on their roster would be broadcast in hd when it was available in hd. Sci-Fi and USA are being broadcast in hd, why then are we not getting them. Comcast just lit up Disney hd and ABC Family hd. Where are they are DISH??:nono2:


----------



## TulsaOK

stick30 said:


> 96% Of The Country Doesn"t Care About Local Hd Channels. Get An Antenna People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Where Are These National Channels They So Desperately Needed To Send Out A Press Release On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Here Is A Thought.................................................
> 
> Don"t Issue A Press Release Telling People You Are Going To ADD HD Channels When You Have No Plan To add some Any Time Soon.
> 
> It"s Like A Company Say We Will Have Double Digit Growth.................... But Never Say If It Will Be Next Quarter Or 2019.
> 
> Give Me A Break Dish Network..... Keep Your Press Releases Until You Actually Provide Something.
> 
> In The Mean Time You Just Lost Another Customer.


I think you have some sticky keys. Spill a Coke on the old keyboard?


----------



## Cappyxavs

before i finaly switched i did ask if new hd channels were comming. the csr put me on hold came back and said many channels will be added over the next two months. when i asked about nationals she said "oh yes lots". i think it may have went something like this... put cutomer on hold... BS with Friend.... Tell them what they want to hear:lol:


----------



## Deke Rivers

stick30 said:


> 96% Of The Country Doesn"t Care About Local Hd Channels. Get An Antenna People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> .


where did you get this stunning fact?


----------



## skyviewmark1

stick30 said:


> 96% Of The Country Doesn"t Care About Local Hd Channels. Get An Antenna People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unfortunately that is a very wrong statement. Those that don't have HD LiL's care very much about them. And I can say with reasonable certainty that your 96% number is probably closer to the percent that *DO* care about HD LiL's


----------



## projectorguru

skyviewmark1 said:


> Unfortunately that is a very wrong statement. Those that don't have HD LiL's care very much about them. And I can say with reasonable certainty that your 96% number is probably closer to the percent that *DO* care about HD LiL's


Thank You, really thats the main thing I'm missing, I can't get anything but CW on an antenna, bein an avid sports fan, my locals in HD would be like striking gold for me, heck with SCI-FI, give me Harrisburg, PA locals. when I added another VIP211 last month, the installer told me that he was in a meeting and Harrisburg locals were slated for August 08, I laughed, he asked why I thought that was funny, I told him to come on here, and see what people say about CSR's and installers tellin people about new HD comming, he said, no I'm serious they will be here


----------



## russ9

Well, we are now past 1,200 gripes.

Saw the Headline this morning, almost got excited. Hopes dashed again.
The Charlie strategy seems clear (100% digitally clear), locals first, nationals sometime this century.

As for my local HD's, the Medford MSA is way down on the list. Dish wasn't even "the leader" in bringing the SD locals to Medford, that other sat. company beat them. Fortunately my roof antenna (which was there when I bought my house 20 years ago, picks up OTA, I get them nicely on my 622 (have to give Dish some credit)

DISH NETWORK - THE LEADER IN PRESS RELEASES


----------



## James Long

russ9 said:


> Well, we are now past 1,200 gripes.


They are not ALL gripes ... and even if they were, there is a lot of repetition. There is only one (valid) gripe in this thread ... not enough HD / new HD.


----------



## phrelin

It's an interesting strategy, announcing in multiple press releases new HD locals without adding the more popular (among adults based on prime time Nielsens) cable nationals. I don't see that adding the HD locals and HD nationals are mutually exclusive. Why not add a national or two with each of these news releases?

Can anyone explain this as a marketing strategy in the context of "knowingly annoying current HD customers?"


----------



## klegg

phrelin said:


> It's an interesting strategy, announcing in multiple press releases new HD locals without adding the more popular (among adults based on prime time Nielsens) cable nationals. I don't see that adding the HD locals and HD nationals are mutually exclusive. Why not add a national or two with each of these news releases?
> 
> Can anyone explain this as a marketing strategy in the context of "knowingly annoying current HD customers?"


All I can figure is they are TRYING to reel in the current NON-HD customers to upgrade their equipment. You know, "We have your locals in HD...all you need is new equipment". This will help with getting everything converted to MPEG4 right?


----------



## CoolGui

phrelin said:


> It's an interesting strategy, announcing in multiple press releases new HD locals without adding the more popular (among adults based on prime time Nielsens) cable nationals. I don't see that adding the HD locals and HD nationals are mutually exclusive. Why not add a national or two with each of these news releases?
> 
> Can anyone explain this as a marketing strategy in the context of "knowingly annoying current HD customers?"


I agree with this completely. Throw us a frickin bone!

Do you think they can add as many locals as they want without incurring a licensing fee that they would have to pay with a national HD channel? And are they really so cheap they want to boost their HD cred by adding locals and ignoring the more costly national HD channels? That's what I'm starting to think. Everyday I keep trying to figure out how I can switch to DirecTV without incurring the wrath of my wife.


----------



## klegg

CoolGui said:


> I agree with this completely. Throw us a frickin bone!
> 
> Do you think they can add as many locals as they want without incurring a licensing fee that they would have to pay with a national HD channel? And are they really so cheap they want to boost their HD cred by adding locals and ignoring the more costly national HD channels? That's what I'm starting to think. Everyday I keep trying to figure out how I can switch to DirecTV without incurring the wrath of my wife.


Like has been stated before, unless you are at the very beginning of your commitment, it's EASY to switch w/o much cost AT ALL. You will pay 13 bucks per mo to get out. Let's say you have 10 months left. That's $130. You're monthly package prolly costs around $90. With the free programming D* will give you, you will make that 130 up in no time... JUST SWITCH!!!!


----------



## puckwithahalo

> It's an interesting strategy, announcing in multiple press releases new HD locals without adding the more popular (among adults based on prime time Nielsens) cable nationals. I don't see that adding the HD locals and HD nationals are mutually exclusive. Why not add a national or two with each of these news releases?
> 
> Can anyone explain this as a marketing strategy in the context of "knowingly annoying current HD customers?"


my guess is that its contract issues more than space issues. that and the locals use spot beams, where the nationals use conus...not sure if that's the issue or not, but is possible...


----------



## phrelin

klegg said:


> Like has been stated before, unless you are at the very beginning of your commitment, it's EASY to switch w/o much cost AT ALL. You will pay 13 bucks per mo to get out. Let's say you have 10 months left. That's $130. You're monthly package prolly costs around $90. With the free programming D* will give you, you will make that 130 up in no time... JUST SWITCH!!!!


Actually, I figured out I could(a) turn off my two 508's, (b) drop down to the HD Only package with locals and the 4 (HBO, Showtime, Starz, 1 cent Cinemax) premiums, and (c) get a DirecTV HD DVR with the Choice package (with locals), resulting in a $5 a month total increase without any buyout. I'd have all the HD I want. But...


CoolGui said:


> Everyday I keep trying to figure out how I can switch to DirecTV without incurring the wrath of my wife.


It would mean more dishes and two menu/guide/channel #/remote control systems. My wife would not be a happy camper, but I might end up a camper. Plus, I would dread getting up every morning wondering if one or both of two providers decided to change the firmware/software causing one or both boxes to fail.

These are complex decisions for an old guy.


----------



## phrelin

puckwithahalo said:


> my guess is that its contract issues more than space issues. that and the locals use spot beams, where the nationals use conus...not sure if that's the issue or not, but is possible...


Since there have been certain national HD channels uplinked to 110° for _*months*_, your contract issue guess is likely correct.


----------



## CoolGui

klegg said:


> Like has been stated before, unless you are at the very beginning of your commitment, it's EASY to switch w/o much cost AT ALL. You will pay 13 bucks per mo to get out. Let's say you have 10 months left. That's $130. You're monthly package prolly costs around $90. With the free programming D* will give you, you will make that 130 up in no time... JUST SWITCH!!!!


It's not a commitment issue, I'm free and clear of that. It's the MRV issue. My wife wants to watch her shows no matter what room she is in. Right now I'm really just thinking about getting a second DVR and telling her to record what she thinks she'll watch on either/both.


----------



## CoolGui

Well it seems CNN HD is online now. That's nice. How about something I would watch a little more?  Oh well, I guess I got my bone. Now I wait 6 months for new channels.


----------



## phrelin

On a more optimistic note for this thread, we now have an HD CNN feed. Whoppee, Larry King, Lou Dobbs and Wolf Blitzer in HD!:eek2:


----------



## russ9

CoolGui said:


> I agree with this completely. Throw us a frickin bone!


Well, we got a bone. Next time ask for some meat!


----------



## BobaBird

You're OK phrelin, I think that still qualifies as a gripe.


----------



## projectorguru

Does this mean we can close this thread now? or should we move on to the NO(insert channel name)in HD thread?


----------



## James Long

CoolGui said:


> I agree with this completely. Throw us a frickin bone!


You should have posted that earlier ... DISH has been holding out waiting for _YOU_ to ask! 

Note to thread: Will everyone please reset their "DISH HAS NOT ADDED ANY NATIONAL HD SINCE" clocks to today? Thanks.


----------



## phrelin

russ9 said:


> Well, we got a bone. Next time ask for some meat!


I'm choking on _that_ bone.... Larry King in HD instead of Trisha Helfer.


----------



## space86

CoolGui said:


> Well it seems CNN HD is online now. That's nice. How about something I would watch a little more?  Oh well, I guess I got my bone. Now I wait 6 months for new channels.


Where are you getting no new HD for 6 Months?


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> Note to thread: Will everyone please reset their "DISH HAS NOT ADDED ANY NATIONAL HD SINCE" clocks to today? Thanks.


How about a new thread: NO NEW NATIONAL HD SINCE LARRY KING


----------



## CoolGui

space86 said:


> Where are you getting no new HD for 6 Months?


Oh, nothing... Hopefully we'll see more TODAY or THIS WEEK, but I'm just sayin... how things have been going lately... 6 months would not surprise me. I would be content for 6 mos if we got SciFi and USA.


----------



## emathis

The only channel that would be more useless in HD would QVC. Actually it might be more useful.


----------



## razorbackfan

CNN-HD? yawn


----------



## Presence

All those who have been *****, moaning and groaning about getting CNN-HD should now have to subsidize my bill. I just had a look at the channel -- sure enough, a couple of buffer bars on the sides and standard 4:3 programming. Nice one.


----------



## Marriner

razorbackfan said:


> CNN-HD? yawn


+1


----------



## GrumpyBear

I finally figured out why we don't have Sci-Fi in HD yet this month.
Charlie and Co, have decided to wait until Apr 30th, as thats my B-day, and what to give me a Surprise present.
 :lol:


----------



## puckwithahalo

> I finally figured out why we don't have Sci-Fi in HD yet this month.
> Charlie and Co, have decided to wait until Apr 30th, as thats my B-day, and what to give me a Surprise present.


aw....i thought they were waiting for mine on May 28. that's even a wednsday too...

Maybe we'll both get presents *crosses fingers*


----------



## jandar

Well mine is today and no new HD that I care about.


----------



## Cappyxavs

CNN-HD Glad I LEFT! Another bonehead decision......


----------



## emathis

puckwithahalo said:


> aw....i thought they were waiting for mine on May 28. that's even a wednsday too...
> 
> Maybe we'll both get presents *crosses fingers*


My birthday is July 28, and I don't have my hopes up.


----------



## Henry

"No HD" seems a moot title right about now ... how's about "_Some_ HD"?


----------



## lionsrule

shouldn't this thread be closed now that we have new "hd"?


----------



## James Long

Is everyone finished complaining? I think not (on both questions).


----------



## puckwithahalo

> My birthday is July 28, and I don't have my hopes up.


that's not a wednsday, which is when most releases seem to come out.


----------



## Cappyxavs

This thread can't close till we have Basket Weaving HD 

Larry Kings big fat head doesn't count


----------



## John W

Cappyxavs said:


> CNN-HD Glad I LEFT! Another bonehead decision......


I don't know that these are "decisions" per se. Probably deals they are able to make.


----------



## CoolGui

I think it should be changed to the "Lack of HD" discussion thread. At least someone changed it from "Gripe" to "Discussion", I don't feel nearly as whiny now.


----------



## Cappyxavs

John W said:


> I don't know that these are "decisions" per se. Probably deals they are able to make.


you may have a very valid point here...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> Is everyone finished complaining? I think not (on both questions).


Sadly, it didn't even take an hour after CNNHD lit up this afternoon for people to complain about it. Also sadly, I think these kind of reactions work against us in terms of getting more HD sooner... since Dish can clearly see that no matter what they do people will complain.

CNNHD wasn't on my list of must-haves, but I suspect it is on some people's... which makes it as valid an addition as any other single-channel. I'm disappointed we just got one new channel today, but it is one more than we have gotten in recent months... so maybe the faucet is beginning to drip a little and things will start flowing soon.

I'm 99.9% certain that if SciFi and USAHD had also lit up today we'd still have a dozen "why does DirecTV have something we don't" complaints anyway... so I think all of this has just become background noise to Dish as they go about their business of moving forward and not trying to process every little nit that they come across.


----------



## lionsrule

ANY new hd is GREAT news....especially if you have the HDonly package like we do now. Slowly, but surely, we are getting back the channels that everyone else is paying $20+/mo for. I love having a news channel in HD. Thanks dish!!

Just don't raise the price for a year or so....

And, add about 1 (or more) new national HD's per week....and I'll love you long time.......


----------



## CoolGui

lionsrule said:


> Just don't raise the price for a year or so....


This has become a new saying for me... The only things in life that are certain is death, taxes and a Dish Network rate increase early next year. But it probably could be <insert cable/sat provider here> really.


----------



## crookedcarrot

HDMe said:


> Sadly, it didn't even take an hour after CNNHD lit up this afternoon for people to complain about it. Also sadly, I think these kind of reactions work against us in terms of getting more HD sooner... since Dish can clearly see that no matter what they do people will complain.
> 
> CNNHD wasn't on my list of must-haves, but I suspect it is on some people's... which makes it as valid an addition as any other single-channel. I'm disappointed we just got one new channel today, but it is one more than we have gotten in recent months... so maybe the faucet is beginning to drip a little and things will start flowing soon.
> 
> I'm 99.9% certain that if SciFi and USAHD had also lit up today we'd still have a dozen "why does DirecTV have something we don't" complaints anyway... so I think all of this has just become background noise to Dish as they go about their business of moving forward and not trying to process every little nit that they come across.


CNN does NOT need to be in HD... who sits there and stares at CNN? Its for background noise and maybe the occasional surf-by.

You're a glass-half-full guy, but this is a glass-half-full of B.S.


----------



## CoolGui

crookedcarrot said:


> CNN does NOT need to be in HD... who sits there and stares at CNN? Its for background noise and maybe the occasional surf-by.
> 
> You're a glass-half-full guy, but this is a glass-half-full of B.S.


You are assuming everybody else's viewing habits are similar to yours. This is wrong. I for one am happy to have CNN HD, however it wasn't very high on my list. Higher than TBS HD (do they even play anything in HD?) and higher than all the voom crap. The fact is I may watch CNN for 10-15 minutes a day but if you add all that up it's a lot more than I watch almost any of the other available HD channels.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Something is better than nothing. Granted no channels will make everybody happy. I know there is lots of talk about USA Channel. Last show I watched on USA was the Westminster Dog show, and before that, it was the year before for the same show. There was lots of Talk about Fox News in HD, CNN, MSNBC, and other new stations all being important, back in Dec/Jan. Where I will also gripe about certain stations, I have gotten off of my high horse, since most stations still are showing Stretch-o-Vision, and NOT HD shows. When there are more Channels with REAL HD CONTENT, I will be more worried about it. Right now its fun, a series here or there I want, so of course I want the channel, but overall, its really a moot point in the big scheme of things.


----------



## Henry

James Long said:


> Is everyone finished complaining? I think not (on both questions).


Get a sense of humor, James. Good news has a tendency to bring out some light levity.


----------



## jack95

I guess progress is progress, but for the record, I am not excited to see the first national HD channel in months to be CNNHD. No meat on that bone for me. 

Since CNNHD was an unanticipated surprise, anyone care to speculate what might be next??


----------



## jimborst

There were three that I have wanted and one was CNN HD (the other two USA and Sci-Fi but since nothing new on USA currently, it can wait). But so far, I am far more impressed with CNN than many of the others we have (especially TBS), AC360 looks good in HD.


----------



## kbuente

E* should be the first to carry WGN in HD, right? Or it done by D* already?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jimborst said:


> There were three that I have wanted and one was CNN HD (the other two USA and Sci-Fi but since nothing new on USA currently, it can wait). But so far, I am far more impressed with CNN than many of the others we have (especially TBS), AC360 looks good in HD.


Absolutely, and I've noted in a couple of threads how I found myself watching more news today than I have in quite a while. AC360 was one that really "popped" tonight, so I agree with you there.

If we had gotten CNNHD about 3 weeks ago, it would have had more HD in one night than TBSHD had since launch! But TBSHD has gotten on board in the last couple of weeks and had quite a bit of actual HD with syndicated and original shows + some movies... but I was fairly impressed once CNNHD hit primetime and actual HD was going.

Also worth noting that even during the day with the sidebars on all the time, they had their ticker running widescreen (not stretched) to maximize its presence and I found that particularly cool as other channels were not as good about that in the early days, and even my local affiliates have to drop to SD in order to put a crawl, so mixing an HD crawl with their upconverted content was nice to see.


----------



## James Long

HDG said:


> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is everyone finished complaining? I think not (on both questions).
> 
> 
> 
> Get a sense of humor, James. Good news has a tendency to bring out some light levity.
Click to expand...

That's what that was ... my wry sense of humor.


----------



## phrelin

Didn't notice the pattern, did you?

Golly, gee whiz, why CNN? Golly gee whiz, the last two were TBS and TNT. Golly gee whiz, they are all _TimeWarner_ channels. I figured I'd have to be the one to point out this minor business detail. In terms of contracts for channels, its likely we HD customers got nothing important out of Dish Network.

Yeah, more HD seems fine. But next up the Cartoon Network? Its the only _TimeWarner_ non-premium left on the list. Other non-premiums from the list:

SciFi, USA and Bravo are _NBCUniversal_.
ABC Family, Disney, Toon Disney, and ESPN News are _Disney_.
AMC and IFC are _Rainbow Group_. (Aren't we in a lawsuit with them?)
BET, CMT, MTV, Nickelodeon, and VH1 are _Viacom_.
Biography is _A&E Group_.
MGMHD, Smithsonian, The Tennis Channel, The Weather Channel, and WGN are owned by others.

Of course, Premiums are possible as Ti_meWarner _owns HBO2 and MoreMAX which were on the list. And Starz Edge was on the list. Gee, repeats of stuff shown on the premiums we already get. Yeah, that could be next.

Oh. A reminder to anyone wanting a News Corp. channel like SPEED or FX. Not on the list. The list can be viewed here.

And, I took a look at Larry King in HD. I still don't get it. Why?

Yeah, I'm getting more and more annoyed.

In case you who say we complain no matter what we get didn't notice, I'm not impressed at all, a little bit, that we got a _TimeWarner_ news channel. And if we indeed get _TimeWarner's_ Cartoon Network next, don't even say it - it'll be for families. Couldn't be that T_imeWarner_ costs Charlie the least to add on. Naw.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> This has become a new saying for me... The only things in life that are certain is death, taxes and a Dish Network rate increase early next year. But it probably could be <insert cable/sat provider here> really.


with some cable companies, you can get price increases as often as quarterly, and on average E*'s price increases are several percentage points lower than every competitor. Charlie's hard bargaining is responsible for that...then again, its also responsible for things taking longer sometimes...take the good with the bad...


----------



## Henry

James Long said:


> That's what that was ... my wry sense of humor.


_Touche._


----------



## skippytym99

RTE said:


> I been with them for about 8 years. I have had the "everything" package for about 4 years. It is begining to get to me - the lack of more HD and the "off shore" support. Things must change and change fast!


What receiver do you have? IF you dont have a vip 211/222/612/622or 722 you can only get 5 hd chan and that is not Dishs fault the providers only transmit in mpeg 4 exept for a few that are in only in mpeg 2. It may not be that they dont have the channels rather that you just cannot see them. Dish has more hd channels than you make it sound like. There is about 40 maybe 50 it you count preimium chan.


----------



## CoolGui

puckwithahalo said:


> with some cable companies, you can get price increases as often as quarterly, and on average E*'s price increases are several percentage points lower than every competitor. Charlie's hard bargaining is responsible for that...then again, its also responsible for things taking longer sometimes...take the good with the bad...


Unless you are the people with the "Everything Pack" like myself. I pay $140 a month.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Unless you are the people with the "Everything Pack" like myself. I pay $140 a month.


the price increase on the everything pack was about 6% this last time. average increase in cost for dish was 7% and i think industry average was around 10% (i'd have to look up the exact numbers)


----------



## Cappyxavs

kbuente said:


> E* should be the first to carry WGN in HD, right? Or it done by D* already?


If E hurries they would be first. if we stay the course by the time E gets it WGN HD will have already been old news on D.

Charlie called today again. wanted to know why we left. too bad that charlie could not take care of me this good when i really needed them to............ i was very happy to stay but now i would not switch back. I will miss that darn monsters HD but getting sci-fi HD was a great trade up.


----------



## FogCutter

jmsteffen said:


> Let's just all sign the following petition and send it to E*:
> 
> *WE WANT IT ALL!*
> 
> ... kind of says it all.


You left out AND WE WANT IT NOW!

Well, we do. All and Now. Easy to remember.


----------



## space86

I can remember back to August of 2003 and I Had like three HD Channels
Discovery HD Theater, HDnet and HDnet Movies


----------



## puckwithahalo

[rant]ok, i'm putting my gripe in....I WANT BBC America in HD!!!!

I just would really love to see Top Gear in HD [/rant]

not really upset about it, but was just thinking that would be a great show to watch in HD


----------



## James Long

After watching CNN HD for the past couple of days ...
I want to watch Glen Beck in HD. Bring on Headline News HD.


----------



## texaswolf

Well CNN must have just been an easier negotiation, and thats why we see it before scifi/usa....regardless, we knew it was coming anyway...works for me (rather have Fox, but hey) hopefully we will see some more rolling out soon. I would think CNBC is right behind it (i hope). Noticed an ENgadget article yesterday that about sums up this thread, and many others, on many other sites.



> DISH Network reaffirms that HD plans are still "on track"
> 
> by Darren Murph, posted Apr 17th 2008 at 7:29PM
> 
> If it sounds like you've heard this same 'ole song and dance before, it's because you have. Just days after the AMC-14 was officially dubbed "a total loss," and merely hours since the satcaster underwhelmed subscribers everywhere by adding CNN HD to its national HD lineup (instead of, say, SciFi HD / USA HD), the company is trying to keep spirits high. According to a regulatory filing, DISH Network reaffirmed that it would not "incur any financial liability from [the] failed satellite launch, and its plans to offer more high-definition video programs were on track." Moreover, it stated that its intentions to boost its HD lineup this spring were a go, but no further details beyond that were given. Eh, a little less conversation and a little more action would be ideal.


http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/17/dish-network-reaffirms-that-hd-plans-are-still-on-track/

First time I have heard "spring" mentioned....but you have to consider Engadget as the source too.....


----------



## JoeKacz

texaswolf said:


> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/17/dish-network-reaffirms-that-hd-plans-are-still-on-track/
> 
> First time I have heard "spring" mentioned....but you have to consider Engadget as the source too.....


Acutally, Engadget's source was Reuters, who's source was a regulatory filing by Dish.


----------



## mattfast1

"Spring" would be a relative term - Dish's corporate headquarters got about 2-3" of snow yesterday.

Which promptly melted when it warmed up to 55 later in the day.

I love Colorado weather...


----------



## phrelin

phrelin said:


> In terms of contracts for channels, its likely we HD customers got nothing important out of Dish Network.
> 
> Yeah, more HD seems fine. But next up the Cartoon Network? Its the only _TimeWarner_ non-premium left on the list.Yeah, I'm getting more and more annoyed.
> 
> In case you who say we complain no matter what we get didn't notice, I'm not impressed at all, a little bit, that we got a _TimeWarner_ news channel. And if we indeed get _TimeWarner's_ Cartoon Network next, don't even say it - it'll be for families. Couldn't be that T_imeWarner_ costs Charlie the least to add on. Naw.


Yep, we are HD-TV on the cheap. See this new thread: CartoonNetworkHD listed on dishwebsite!! And thanks to Presence for noticing.


----------



## phrelin

Just opened my April Dish Newsletter which reads as follows:


> DISH Network is, hands down, the leader in HD! Only DISH Network has the HD DVR that earned the CNet Editors Choice. When you add the most popular HD channels, no other HD experience comes close to dishHD!
> 
> This year DISH Network will have up to 100 HD Channels! Watch for announcements all year long that may include these great channels:
> 
> The Biography Channel HD
> Cartoon Network HD
> CNN HD
> Disney Channel HD
> MTV HD
> Nickelodeon HD
> SCI-FI
> Tennis Channel HD
> The Weather Channel HD
> USA Network HD and VH-1 HD


Unless I missed something, THE LIST no longer includes the following that were indicated in the Charlie Chat:

Viacom: BET, CMT
Disney Group: ABC Family, Toon Disney, ESPN News
NBCU Group: Bravo
Rainbow Group: AMC, IFC
Time Warner: HBO2, MoreMAX
Other: MGMHD, Smithsonian, Starz Edge, WGN

Now I know that Dish Network has idiots in the marketing/pr department, but the April 16 eNewsletter dropping 14 HD channels to "watch for" that were indicated in the March 10 Charlie Chat constitutes the latest announcement on HD nationals in my book, at least until I'm told otherwise.


----------



## space86

AMC 14 Failed Fewer Channels Now


----------



## RAD

space86 said:


> AMC 14 Failed Fewer Channels Now


But Dish has said that the loss of AMC-14 will not impact their plans HD expansion plans.

http://dish.client.shareholder.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1415404-08-11

_On April 11, 2008, SES Americom announced that it has declared to insurers that the AMC-14 satellite is now considered a total loss, due to a lack of viable options to reposition the satellite to its proper geostationary orbit. DISH Network had intended to lease the entire capacity of the satellite from EchoStar Corporation in order to, among other things, increase the number of high definition channels that DISH Network offers. *As previously announced, our plans to enhance our HD programming line-up this spring remain on track *and we have two more satellites scheduled for launch later this year to continue our HD rollout and reach our year-end goal of 100 local HD markets and 100 national HD channels. We are continuing to assess alternative sources of satellite capacity that will mitigate any affect that this development may have on our longer term plans to roll out additional local HD markets and national HD channels. DISH Network will not incur any financial liability as a result of the AMC-14 satellite being declared a total loss. _


----------



## texaswolf

phrelin said:


> Yep, we are HD-TV on the cheap. See this new thread: CartoonNetworkHD listed on dishwebsite!! And thanks to Presence for noticing.


Oh thats a given that they are costing the least.....i would expect the least expensive to be the first added.....i'm just wondering what kind of a fight that either Charlie or Scifi or USA are putting up for this long of a delay...granted there was no date given for these channels...just talking about the original uplink testing dates. However i will welcome Toon HD...and any other they add...and just hope they keep rolling out..preferably my favorites first...lol


----------



## ZBoomer

Now that Sci-Fi HD is on, can all you guys crying for it stop whining?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Sci-Fi and USA are up and running in HD. They will find more channels to whine about. EVEN I will find channels to whine about.


----------



## phrelin

No whining for me for at least a week. Had to throw away a rant I was preparing.:lol:


----------



## GrumpyBear

I had to catch myself from complaining for at least a day as well. CNN, Sci-Fi, USA in HD, and my 1st thought were is the Cartoon and the others. I will be happy with 3 in one week. Well at least of a day or 2:lol:


----------



## rey_1178

" NO HD " i am your father! James, time to destroy this thread! :beatdeadhorse:


----------



## GrumpyBear

We Will have to change it to NO NEW HD Gripe, next week.


----------



## mattfast1

It won't - I'm sure Marketing is just full of idiots.

AMC-14 didn't fail out those channels, according to info I have available the others are still on schedule. Just waiting on contracts.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

GrumpyBear said:


> We Will have to change it to NO NEW HD Gripe, next week.


Naah... just wait for folks to begin complaining about the lack of HD content on the new channels. I'm sure it will begin soon.


----------



## Taco Lover

Lets all complain that we don't have MGMHD now. 

I will continue, however, to complain about CSNBAHD not being available.


----------



## James Long

Yep ... this thread remains a great place to discuss any (and preferably ALL) of the missing HD.


----------



## texaswolf

rey_1178 said:


> " NO HD " i am your father! James, time to destroy this thread! :beatdeadhorse:


agreed...with the roll out of these channels the rest are going to follow soon (hopefully), but at least the "big ones" are up....except for the speed folks....

i have never enjoed switching my timers to another channel so much...lol


----------



## Glenn

...and Giants/A's/Sharks fans...


----------



## GrumpyBear

Nice renaming of the Thread James.


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> Nice renaming of the Thread James.


yes it was....

an OT question...do we need to wait for them to update the guide on the new channels or is it a reboot deal?


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> an OT question...do we need to wait for them to update the guide on the new channels or is it a reboot deal?


Your choice. If you wait it will likely happen when your receiver reboots at about 3am local time.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Right now it looks like you have to force a dowload of the Guide. As it only shows current and Next, right now. Subject to change without any notice.


----------



## jimborst

Just one more channel and I won't need any SD channels (Travel Channel).


----------



## phrelin

GrumpyBear said:


> Right now it looks like you have to force a dowload of the Guide. As it only shows current and Next, right now. Subject to change without any notice.


Yes, I did that so I could schedule BSG tonight along with Dr. Who.


----------



## texaswolf

ok...thanks guys..



> Just one more channel and I won't need any SD channels (Travel Channel).


I have been spoiled with Rick Steves on HDNET and KERA HD...so i haven't missed travel _too_ much.

I can't wait for MGM and CNBC....i'm not complaining...just looking forward to seeing them when they eventually come

FX is my biggie...but that hasn't even been mentioned yet


----------



## 0pusX

ESPN News HD?????? ready, set.....go


----------



## phrelin

0pusX said:


> ESPN News HD?????? ready, set.....go


Sorry, but that's one dropped from the list, see my earlier post about the 14 channels dropped from the list.


----------



## texaswolf

phrelin said:


> Sorry, but that's one dropped from the list, see my earlier post about the 14 channels dropped from the list.


ahhhhhhhhhhhh crap....i hope not....well, gotta keep in mind the sat issue had no nix a lot of channels too


----------



## jpeckinp

Ok so Dish advertises 79 HD "National" channels now. What are they? All I can find on the Dish site is 45.

And when I mean National I mean something that if I am in Boston or LA I can get the channel. I know there isn't 79 true National channels and it's all marketing BS but really why do they fudge numbers like this? I would consider this as misleading.

Yes I know all of them do it. But does that make it right? Not in my book.


----------



## crookedcarrot

Are those with the HD only pack getting USA and Sci-fi HD?


----------



## James Long

jpeckinp said:


> Ok so Dish advertises 79 HD "National" channels now. What are they? All I can find on the Dish site is 45.


DISH has the same accounting practices as DirecTV when it comes to channel counts. 

40 "national" in Essentials/Ultimate + 4 Premiums is the 44 I count.
(Don't count VS and Golf as two channels.)



phrelin said:


> Sorry, but that's one dropped from the list, see my earlier post about the 14 channels dropped from the list.


And yet the press release today restated the 100 national channels and 100 HD local markets by the end of the year.


----------



## jpeckinp

James Long said:


> DISH has the same accounting practices as DirecTV when it comes to channel counts.
> 
> 40 "national" in Essentials/Ultimate + 4 Premiums is the 44 I count.
> (Don't count VS and Golf as two channels.)
> 
> And yet the press release today restated the 100 national channels and 100 HD local markets by the end of the year.


So basically if they have it on CONUS they are counting it as National.


----------



## texaswolf

jpeckinp said:


> Ok so Dish advertises 79 HD "National" channels now. What are they? All I can find on the Dish site is 45.
> 
> And when I mean National I mean something that if I am in Boston or LA I can get the channel. I know there isn't 79 true National channels and it's all marketing BS but really why do they fudge numbers like this? I would consider this as misleading.
> 
> Yes I know all of them do it. But does that make it right? Not in my book.


Some are sports tier, some are ppv....none the less they are HD channels...it's an advertising lure that all the companies do...just a matter of being a smart consumer and try to filter through the ad's best you can.


----------



## texaswolf

crookedcarrot said:


> Are those with the HD only pack getting USA and Sci-fi HD?


Nope, they are in the AT100 on up

122 HD and 9432 are Scifi HD

105 HD and 9431 are USA HD


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> crookedcarrot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are those with the HD only pack getting USA and Sci-fi HD?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, they are in the AT100 on up
> 
> 122 HD and 9432 are Scifi HD
> 
> 105 HD and 9431 are USA HD
Click to expand...

Are you sure? They should have been added to the $29.99 DishHD standalone just like CNN HD.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:



> Are you sure? They should have been added to the $29.99 DishHD standalone just like CNN HD.


OH CRAP.....sorry guys i read that wrong....I thought he was asking if ONLY the HD only pack was getting them (as in he wasn't seeing them on his tv)

Sorry about that:blush:


----------



## Hound

CSNBA should be next. Then more locals.


----------



## CoolGui

HDMe said:


> Naah... just wait for folks to begin complaining about the lack of HD content on the new channels. I'm sure it will begin soon.


You know I see *you * complaining more than anyone about people complaining....

Personally I'm good for a while, at least there is movement... 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1555698&postcount=1238

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1558178&postcount=27

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1557980&postcount=40


----------



## Stewart Vernon

CoolGui said:


> You know I see *you * complaining more than anyone about people complaining....


I'm not sure what your point here is?

People complain... sometimes I agree with them, sometimes I don't. You can't possibly see me complaining about other people more than their complaints since my posts would be in response to others... so I feel like I'm missing a point here somewhere.

In the links you posted, I was merely pointing out an interesting thing that seems to happen perpetually. People complain about wanting channel A, people get channel A, people complain channel A wasn't as good as they thought, people complain about wanting channel B... and so forth. Seems to be a neverending cycle.


----------



## HDRoberts

Travel HD
Spike HD
Comedy Central HD

Add those and I can go HD only. Unfortunately, given that the last one doesn't exist, I may be waiting a while. 

If only they could come out with some kind of all HD plus, say, 5 a la carté SDs, I suspect many of us would be very happy. But alas, a la carté will never happen.

But it's already been a good couple weeks. Got my Local HDs two weeks ago, CNN HD, USA HD, and Sci-fi HD this week, so no reason to complain ... much.

I suspect now that they have these 2 to keep current subs off their back, the impetus will go back to local HDs. Remember, E* is after cable converts, not so much DTV converts. I don't know about your local cable companies, but our local TWC and WOW providers have been making much ado about E* not having local HDs.


----------



## texaswolf

im happy with scifi finally being added, i was seriously thinking of going to Direct, if it wasn't added by the time my contract was up....I don't think Comedy Central is in HD yet is it? Is there another provider carrying it? if FX was mentioned i would still be chomping at the bit, but i have not been led to any false promises there...well since i signed up


----------



## HDRoberts

Comedy Central HD isn't available any any provider yet. But I can't live without my Stewart/Colbert, so for me, it's a must have before going HD only. (And no, I'm not going to be content using bittorrent for it)


----------



## Hound

USA and Sci Fi are both available in the HD only package.


----------



## jack95

I'm encouraged with addition of today's national HD channels...but SPEEDHD is tops on my wish list. Still it's encouraging.


----------



## phrelin

Let me summarize our new HD status:

A. The following three HD channels are in the Charlie Chat list and April eNewsletter and now available to us: 


> NBCU Group: USA Network, SciFi
> Time Warner: CNN


B. The following seven HD channels are in the Charlie Chat list and April eNewsletter but aren't available to us yet: 


> Viacom: MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1
> Disney Group: Disney
> Time Warner: Cartoon Network
> A&E Group: Biography Channel
> Other: Tennis Channel HD, The Weather Channel HD


Relevant question: Is it a possibility that the 7 that were on both lists can be "fitted" onto 110° so that issues around 61.5° and 129° might not affect those nationals? Anyone who knows about these things have any thoughts?

C. The following 14 channels were in the Charlie Chat list but not the April eNewsletter: 


> Viacom: BET, CMT,
> Disney Group: ABC Family, Toon Disney, ESPN News
> NBCU Group: Bravo
> Rainbow Group: AMC, IFC
> Time Warner: HBO2, MoreMAX
> Other: MGMHD, Smithsonian, Starz Edge, WGN


D. Anything not listed here is in a _"Who knows if and maybe next year status"_?


----------



## 0pusX

man with no espn news I think I am going to have to make the switch. Im a hige sports fan namely football NASCAR and baseball so the more HD in those the better.


----------



## phrelin

Unfortunately for many of us who have wish lists that fall in some other category, the "eNewsletter Seven" is heavily skewed to households with viewers 25 and under. But from a business standpoint, it probably makes sense to get those up soon. These are:


> Viacom: MTV, Nickelodeon
> Disney Group: Disney
> Time Warner: Cartoon Network


Not my cup of tea, but....


----------



## GrumpyBear

0pusX said:


> man with no espn news I think I am going to have to make the switch. Im a hige sports fan namely football NASCAR and baseball so the more HD in those the better.


Everybody has there priorties, but ESPN News has such little sports, it is way down on the list of things.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Can a DIRECTV customer respectfully complain that Comedy Central isn't available in HD anywhere? 

Hopefully coming soon(?) to both companies,
Tom


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> Everybody has there priorties, but ESPN News has such little sports, it is way down on the list of things.


yeah beside us sports junkies and fantasy sports junkies....there probably isn't a huge call for it....however i still would love it...lol


----------



## 0pusX

i never thought much about it until they did the ESPN News HD preview on ESPN a couple weeks ago..... now I cant watch SD ESPN News


----------



## James Long

The trial is next month ... DISH did win a temporary restraining order in their lawsuit against ESPN. Without court documents it's anyone's guess, but mine is that the TRO allows DISH to continue to carry ESPN and ESPN2 without carrying ESPNews while their case is being worked out.


----------



## puckwithahalo

phrelin said:


> Just opened my April Dish Newsletter which reads as follows:Unless I missed something, THE LIST no longer includes the following that were indicated in the Charlie Chat:
> 
> Viacom: BET, CMT
> Disney Group: ABC Family, Toon Disney, ESPN News
> NBCU Group: Bravo
> Rainbow Group: AMC, IFC
> Time Warner: HBO2, MoreMAX
> Other: MGMHD, Smithsonian, Starz Edge, WGN
> 
> Now I know that Dish Network has idiots in the marketing/pr department, but the April 16 eNewsletter dropping 14 HD channels to "watch for" that were indicated in the March 10 Charlie Chat constitutes the latest announcement on HD nationals in my book, at least until I'm told otherwise.


And why would it constitute the latest announcement? I think you're reading way to much into it. I mean it even says that the channels listed *MAY* be included in the goal of up to 100....

just because its a shorter list than before does not exclude the channels that were in the previous list....


----------



## DStroyer

ZBoomer said:


> Now that Sci-Fi HD is on, can all you guys crying for it stop whining?


My "Ignore" list has 78 "BSG! BSG! BSG!" people on it. I was having fun adding approx. 5 new people to it every day. Now that SciFiHD is on, what am I supposed to do for fun?! :grin:


----------



## James Long

Clear the list?


----------



## phrelin

puckwithahalo said:


> And why would it constitute the latest announcement? I think you're reading way to much into it. I mean it even says that the channels listed *MAY* be included in the goal of up to 100....
> 
> just because its a shorter list than before does not exclude the channels that were in the previous list....


Technically, it is the "latest" I've seen. And I consider the "may" as an out - that is, they may _not_ be included in the "goal" which they may not meet.

But you could be right that the shorter list was created solely to confuse someone like me.

On the other hand, they may have trimmed the list to trim our expectations as Dish loads what post-AMC-14-launch-failure available transponders they have on 61.5° and 129° with local HD. Maybe they can get more than 7 new HD channels on 110°. Or maybe we're going to have to wait for a new satellite. Anyone know or care to guess?:grin:


----------



## phrelin

DStroyer said:


> My "Ignore" list has 78 "BSG! BSG! BSG!" people on it. I was having fun adding approx. 5 new people to it every day. Now that SciFiHD is on, what am I supposed to do for fun?! :grin:


Join us in enjoying BSG in HD! The entire show is one of the finest pieces of allegory to ever appears on TV, using "allegory" in a literary sense, meaning "a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another." (Dictionary.com)


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> Technically, it is the "latest" I've seen.


This came out today (Friday):
"As previously announced, our plans to enhance our HD programming line-up this spring remain on track," said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for DISH Network®. "We continue our HD rollout to reach our year-end goal of 100 local HD markets and 100 national HD channels."​http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126376

ON TRACK ... not delayed, pushed back, on hold ... ON TRACK.

Perhaps the channels in that newsletter will be next - perhaps not. Don't read too much into the "list" being smaller. If this was a print newsletter it may have been the channels they decided to mention at the time they went to press (which is usually well in advance of mailing).

BTW: CC list less the list you gave less the three channels added this week leaves the following channels - Biography ... Cartoon Network ... Disney ... MTV ... Nickelodeon ... Tennis ... VH1 ... The Weather Channel. I believe only two of them have been "reported" uplinked as tests at some point in time. It is possible one or more may be added before one of the remaining "test" channels, but most of that list hasn't seen DISH's satellite.


----------



## Cappyxavs

0pusX said:


> man with no espn news I think I am going to have to make the switch. Im a hige sports fan namely football NASCAR and baseball so the more HD in those the better.


if you are a huge sports fan you may actualy be with the wrong provider. D has always been all about sports and this year i will probrably add sunday ticket. do note that ST is not cheap though.... however with D there is also MLB.


----------



## Cappyxavs

i am glad to see E has finaly got SCI FI in HD

not only will you enjoy the new pq you will also get the aq as well. i watch the hd channel version whether the content is sd or hd the pq is just better for both. 

don't worry too much about mtvhd or vh1hd as there is no hd to be found on the darn channels


----------



## puckwithahalo

> don't worry too much about mtvhd or vh1hd as there is no hd to be found on the darn channels


there is also previous little programming worth watching on those channels, hd or sd be damned...at least, IMHO....not that my opinion counts for much


----------



## Cappyxavs

puckwithahalo said:


> there is also previous little programming worth watching on those channels, hd or sd be damned...at least, IMHO....not that my opinion counts for much


You got that Right


----------



## space86

Time Warner Cable is Adding Fox News HD on May 1st.


----------



## Cappyxavs

space86 said:


> Time Warner Cable is Adding Fox News HD on May 1st.


wow how many national HDs would twc have at that point:lol:


----------



## texaswolf

space86 said:


> Time Warner Cable is Adding Fox News HD on May 1st.


sweet...bout time they went HD...hope we are treated to it soon also


----------



## phrelin

Well, I was hoping for a content filled MGMHD someday soon (per CC and testing) when I ran into this today:


> The premium TV channel landscape and Sumner Redstone's media empire were hit by an earthquake midday Sunday.
> 
> Viacom Inc. and its Paramount Pictures unit, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, and Lionsgate have formed a joint venture that will launch a premium TV channel and VOD service in the fall of 2009.
> 
> The news could be a sign of internal strife at Redstone's empire, as it will have a major effect on CBS Corp.'s premium channel arm Showtime. It has output deals with Lionsgate, MGM and Paramount that are set to expire and won't be renewed given that the venture will have exclusive pay TV access to its partners' content.
> 
> ...The studio venture combines new and classic feature film output and original TV series, giving it exclusive access during the pay TV window to such recent and upcoming films as "Iron Man," "Star Trek," "Pink Panther 2," "Cloverfield," "Robocop." The joint venture also covers library hits such as "Dirty Dancing," "Reservoir Dogs," "Crash," "Braveheart," "Forrest Gump," the "Godfather" series and the Rocky and James Bond franchises.


So I guess MGMHD will become a bandwidth placeholder for a $10 premium channel and Showtime will struggle for content?:eek2:


----------



## space86

I thought MGM HD was just going to be old movies in HD?


----------



## space86

TCM HD will have all the old MGM Golden Age Movies in HD.


----------



## phrelin

space86 said:


> TCM HD will have all the old MGM Golden Age Movies in HD.


Yeah, when we get it. But I was dreaming about access to some of the MGM TV shows of "yesteryear" without paying a premium. It's a huge list.


----------



## Cappyxavs

space86 said:


> I thought MGM HD was just going to be old movies in HD?


MGM HD is up and running fine on D. it is all the older MGM movies in HD. Sho-time E,W,2 and TMC HD are running fine as well???


----------



## texaswolf

Awww man....i was hoping Walker, Texas Ranger would be in HD on USA...lol. Sometimes Monk is in SD, sometimes HD....anyone know why?


----------



## projectorguru

texaswolf said:


> Awww man....i was hoping Walker, Texas Ranger would be in HD on USA...lol. Sometimes Monk is in SD, sometimes HD....anyone know why?


Simple, they want to see how many complaints they get on the gripe thread:lol:


----------



## russ9

texaswolf said:


> Awww man....i was hoping Walker, Texas Ranger would be in HD on USA...lol.


Sorry, you know the saying, "one ranger, one pixel."


----------



## Dicx

Just hoping we get FX HD before Rescue Me comes on in June.


----------



## texaswolf

Dicx said:


> Just hoping we get FX HD before Rescue Me comes on in June.


me too


> Simple, they want to see how many complaints they get on the gripe thread


or how many complaints about complainers...on a complaint thread


----------



## Cappyxavs

Dicx said:


> Just hoping we get FX HD before Rescue Me comes on in June.


do you happen to know when "It's always sunny in philadelphia" comes back on?


----------



## GrumpyBear

While we are making out wish lists and and complaining, how about more HD content, on some of these so called HD channels!


----------



## ibooksrule

I am looking for travel channel in HD. That is my next one im really hoping for. It is available so its time for Dish to carry it. I mean to see all the places they go in HD.

I notice more and more shows letterboxed lately so i am hoping that means its in HD.

I think my next channel after that is ABC family in HD and then MGM HD would be good as well.


----------



## CoolGui

I switched to the HD only package. The only thing I'm really missing is my RSN and Comedy Central. I'll watch Daily Show and Colbert online until they get it in HD or I switch packages/providers.


----------



## puckwithahalo

as soon as we get cartoon network and BBC America (yeah I know that could be a while), i'm going HD only


----------



## calgary2800

Am I the only one that enjoys the VOOM channels? Some of content in Gallery HD, Equator HD, Treasure HD is excellent if you dont have ADD and can take it easy and slow and just kick back. And in the last few weeks the PQ of the HD channels have been excellent. I'm quite happy with the recent addition of USA/CNN/SC-FI too. 

Dish is costing me something like 15 dollars more a month on a apple to apple comparsion to E for content and its ok with me right now. I've grow to be very fond of some of the shows on VOOM and outside of price I'm a happy customer. How about you?

I forgot one last thing, the Kung Fu HD should change to Asia HD and just show Asian movies all genre. Way too many repeats.


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> While we are making out wish lists and and complaining, how about more HD content, on some of these so called HD channels!


that all boils down to each shows producers and directors, and then the channel...NBC for example on Thursdays...The Office, Earl, and ER are all HD, but Scrubs isn't...i guess it would come down to writing the shows creators about going HD...people have been screaming for Survivor and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition to go HD for a while now...still no dice...i wish always sunny in Philly would be...if and when we get FX HD


----------



## jimborst

texaswolf said:


> that all boils down to each shows producers and directors, and then the channel...NBC for example on Thursdays...The Office, Earl, and ER are all HD, but Scrubs isn't...i guess it would come down to writing the shows creators about going HD...people have been screaming for Survivor and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition to go HD for a while now...still no dice...i wish always sunny in Philly would be...if and when we get FX HD


I know I read somewhere that Survivor was going HD next year. Since this is Scrubs last season*, I don't think they'll change now.

*There was a rumor that a cable channel was dealing on Scrubs.


----------



## texaswolf

jimborst said:


> I know I read somewhere that Survivor was going HD next year. Since this is Scrubs last season*, I don't think they'll change now.
> 
> *There was a rumor that a cable channel was dealing on Scrubs.


I hope Survivor does...although i think they only have 2 more years in the contract...although it still brings in good numbers, and may be extended...i ope another channels picks up scrubs too...great show.


----------



## robertoh

They just added USA,that with Discovery,History,A&E,NFL, HGTV, Food, and a few others that We watch pretty well covers what we like in HD. Travel Channel would be nice.


----------



## Teagore

robertoh said:


> They just added USA,that with Discovery,History,A&E,NFL, HGTV, Food, and a few others that We watch pretty well covers what we like in HD. Travel Channel would be nice.


So would fx,mgm,spike,espnews and wgn.

Lets bottom line this..Why does D* have so much more hd programming then E*? Is Charlie just that cheap? Has he pissed some networks off? Does D* have some kind of exclusive deals that they get the channel for a certain amount of time before E* does? Whats up doc?


----------



## zamtex

I just ordered the 612 receiver and asked the CSR about more HD programming. she said that around 20 new HD channels will be added in the next month, including espnnews, wgn, nick, tennis?, and others. 

she was not the normal indian CSR, who have no clue, but an american CSR. at first I thought I had the wrong number!


----------



## rey_1178

yes they are.


----------



## Hound

It depends on what you are looking for. The three new HD additions has made surfing on E* much more appealing. I only surf from 9419 and up.

I have had D* since January and I only use D* for MSG, MSG+, MLB EI or recording some network shows in HD. I do not have E* locals since they cost extra.

I never surf on D*. Channel lineup is too cumbersome. E* HD with new additions much better for surfing.


----------



## mattfast1

zamtex said:


> I just ordered the 612 receiver and asked the CSR about more HD programming. she said that around 20 new HD channels will be added in the next month, including espnnews, wgn, nick, tennis?, and others.
> 
> she was not the normal indian CSR, who have no clue, but an american CSR. at first I thought I had the wrong number!


Yes, there are several new national HD channels slated for release. See my post here.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

zamtex said:


> she was not the normal indian CSR, who have no clue, but an american CSR. at first I thought I had the wrong number!


I know everyone gets all freaky whenever someone corrects spelling or grammar, but can we at least have a rule that says people who take the time to insult other nationalities must at a minimum be correct in that post?

Of all my pet peeves, I really hate seeing the nationality bashing, and even moreso when it is considered so taboo to correct spelling/grammar... it should be even more taboo to randomly attack nationalities.

Or maybe I'm being overly sensitive in this area?


----------



## GB1

No, you are not being too sensitive. Lets not bash anyone, thing, culture, nation, etc. 

Griping about missing channels, etc can be done in a healthy way or not!


----------



## MarkoC

HDMe said:


> I know everyone gets all freaky whenever someone corrects spelling or grammar, but can we at least have a rule that says people who take the time to insult other nationalities must at a minimum be correct in that post?
> 
> Of all my pet peeves, I really hate seeing the nationality bashing, and even moreso when it is considered so taboo to correct spelling/grammar... it should be even more taboo to randomly attack nationalities.
> 
> Or maybe I'm being overly sensitive in this area?


I agree completely.


----------



## Cappyxavs

Hound said:


> It depends on what you are looking for. The three new HD additions has made surfing on E* much more appealing. I only surf from 9419 and up.
> 
> I have had D* since January and I only use D* for MSG, MSG+, MLB EI or recording some network shows in HD. I do not have E* locals since they cost extra.
> 
> I never surf on D*. Channel lineup is too cumbersome. E* HD with new additions much better for surfing.


it helps with D if you make a "must have" custom list and eliminate all the BS channels and makes it a lot less chaotic.


----------



## jclewter79

Hound said:


> It depends on what you are looking for. The three new HD additions has made surfing on E* much more appealing. I only surf from 9419 and up.
> 
> I have had D* since January and I only use D* for MSG, MSG+, MLB EI or recording some network shows in HD. I do not have E* locals since they cost extra.
> 
> I never surf on D*. Channel lineup is too cumbersome. E* HD with new additions much better for surfing.


Just wondering which packages you have with both services and how much it cost to keep both services per month?


----------



## Geronimo

If you buy the sports pack you will get the rest of the RSNs but pro sports will be blacked out---or at least major pro sports. there will still be quite a bit of college sports available to you.


----------



## mattfast1

Hound said:


> I do not have E* locals since they cost extra.


D* costs extra. I know it looks appealing, but once you're done with the promotion ($18/mo off for the first year), the prices are MUCH higher than E*. I say that as a consumer comparing prices for installation (without taking employee pricing into account, as the particular installs I'm looking at would not qualify), NOT as an E* employee.


HDMe said:


> can we at least have a rule that says people who take the time to insult other nationalities must at a minimum be correct in that post?
> 
> Of all my pet peeves, I really hate seeing the nationality bashing, and even moreso when it is considered so taboo to correct spelling/grammar... it should be even more taboo to randomly attack nationalities.


I agree. It may not have been an Indian CSR that posts refers to - there are other nationalities employed by E*, and it really depends on the particular CSR you get, not their nationality.


----------



## Cappyxavs

mattfast1 said:


> D* costs extra. I know it looks appealing, but once you're done with the promotion ($18/mo off for the first year), the prices are MUCH higher than E*. I say that as a consumer comparing prices for installation (without taking employee pricing into account, as the particular installs I'm looking at would not qualify), NOT as an E* employee.
> 
> I had E up to a month ago. I beg to differ... after the 18/mo credit D is cheaper for the top choice hd-dvr package as i have 3 hd dvrs and one std reciever.
> 
> It's nice that E has chosen to add new HD channels but honestly in the future i would not get them all unless i forked over extra cash to E for a better tier.
> 
> also E charges 6-7/mo for dvr fees unless you buy the evreything pack. all i wanted was the top 250. D waives the dvr fees at my pack which is similar to the E 250 tier. so end result i save 18-21/mo off dvr fees and can add whatever prems i want at any tiome or take away.
> 
> E nor cable will never have sunday ticket. my teams are not local so this is a really nice plus for me..


----------



## Cappyxavs

HDMe said:


> I know everyone gets all freaky whenever someone corrects spelling or grammar, but can we at least have a rule that says people who take the time to insult other nationalities must at a minimum be correct in that post?
> 
> Of all my pet peeves, I really hate seeing the nationality bashing, and even moreso when it is considered so taboo to correct spelling/grammar... it should be even more taboo to randomly attack nationalities.
> 
> Or maybe I'm being overly sensitive in this area?


people should not be labeling nationalities. if they are un happy when they call csr simply cancel thier service or deal with it. csr is outsourced because subscribers have demanded the lowest price;... and well you got it so why complaign about it?.


----------



## James Long

It is a shame when someone of Indian descent can't get a job in a call center because no one will believe they REALLY ARE in the US. :nono:

But that's another topic ... must not be enough HD missing to discuss any more ...


----------



## Cappyxavs

Where's that darn tennis channel in HD? D got it


----------



## James Long

Channel 9463 last we heard ... but, alas, not available.


----------



## peak_reception

James Long said:


> It is a shame when someone of Indian descent can't get a job in a call center because no one will believe they REALLY ARE in the US. :nono:


 No one of Indian descent born in the U.S. would have that problem though b/c in all likelihood their English would be as good and unaccented as anyone else born in America.


----------



## peak_reception

We get two RSNs (wtih AT200) in SW Michigan: Comcast Chicago and Fox Detroit. It seems like everything on the Chicago RSN is blacked out, at least everything I have any interest in, like the Cubs. Whereas Fox Detroit seems hardly ever to black out what I'd watch, like Tigers, Red Wings, etc. 
That surprises me. I'd think there are many more Detroit sports fans even this far west in Michigan, than Chicago sports fans.

*Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh No! *


----------



## rey_1178

:backtotop


----------



## peak_reception

Ok, back to topic: Dang it all I wish DISH had as much HD as DirecTV! (but the addition of CNN was a nice surprise, at least to me)


----------



## Cappyxavs

If E would get The basket weaving HD channel I'd come back


----------



## Cappyxavs

Quick question:

Does Universal HD have commercials on E?

i just got a flyer from comcast cable and was amazed to say the least. if i calculate correctly for what i pay 127/mo for now (price reflective as if there were zero insentives) i calculated a whopping 200 bucks with comcast!! this would be giving cable a advantage at tier levels and including 3 hd/dvrs. from what i see they are charging 13.95 per dvr and also an access fee on top of that!!! also cable seems to hide thier hd access fee with thier penalty fees section... go figure???


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Cappyxavs said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Does Universal HD have commercials on E?


Yes. Some months back UniversalHD started interrupting their movies with commercials. They always had commercials in the non-movie programming and in between movies... but even though they still seem to be showing movies uncensored, they are no longer uninterrupted.

Not a good move, and most have panned the decision to do this. It has no longer been a must-watch channel for me.


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> Yes. Some months back UniversalHD started interrupting their movies with commercials. They always had commercials in the non-movie programming and in between movies... but even though they still seem to be showing movies uncensored, they are no longer uninterrupted.
> 
> Not a good move, and most have panned the decision to do this. It has no longer been a must-watch channel for me.


I won't watch UniversalHD for movies or anything else. Don't forget the new VOOM Movie channel coming May 1st. I assume we'll get it.


----------



## Cappyxavs

HDMe said:


> Yes. Some months back UniversalHD started interrupting their movies with commercials. They always had commercials in the non-movie programming and in between movies... but even though they still seem to be showing movies uncensored, they are no longer uninterrupted.
> 
> Not a good move, and most have panned the decision to do this. It has no longer been a must-watch channel for me.


yeah i thought i had watched it at one time or another and there were no commercials. 
It doesn't bother me too much right now but i know (like stern on sirius) eventualy the commercials will become unbareable and i will tune out.


----------



## space86

Will E* Carry Fox News HD on May 1st this Thursday?


----------



## jclewter79

I doubt it.


----------



## tito79

What happened to the ny local channels where they did go?


----------



## James Long

If you're in NYC they should still be there. All NYC locals (HD and SD) are now on spotbeams. If the HD ones are showing up in your guide and giving errors when trying to view then you have a reception problem.

If it is a case of the locals being missing from the guide and you have the 61.5° satellite on your system then it looks like you have somehow lost authorization for the channels. Reboot the receiver and see if they come back, and if they don't - call DISH.


----------



## tito79

Thanks for help and enjoy reading here.


----------



## space86

It looks like even Directv did not get Fox News HD Today?


----------



## phrelin

Keep in mind that there were _*no*_ News Corp. channels in the Charlie Chat list.


----------



## GrumpyBear

phrelin said:


> Keep in mind that there were _*no*_ News Corp. channels in the Charlie Chat list.


It shouldn't surprise many that Dish, would be last on the list or it wouldn't be easy for them to get a News Corp channel.


----------



## Cappyxavs

space86 said:


> It looks like even Directv did not get Fox News HD Today?


No Fox news for D but it was never in our upcomming lists or did i miss it. D does have Fox buisness news HD though but had it for a while. If there is something i would like to see quickly in HD that would be BBC-HD


----------



## Cappyxavs

Wow! 
Sci-Fi HD gets added to dish's line up and no one has any more complaints... :lol:


----------



## TulsaOK

Cappyxavs said:


> Wow!
> Sci-Fi HD gets added to dish's line up and no one has any more complaints... :lol:


Finally, everyone is happy. 

Wait for it .......


----------



## RasputinAXP

TulsaOK said:


> Finally, everyone is happy.
> 
> Wait for it .......


Hey, I know I am...I can wait for Nick HD and Disney HD so my son can be happy.

That said, if they had Game Show network HD I could drop the SD package entirely, since the wife watches that the most. Except I'd be missing my RSNs...


----------



## dclaryjr

TulsaOK said:


> Finally, everyone is happy.
> 
> Wait for it .......


Not me! I want The Travel Channel in HD. If I don't get it by next week, I'm going to pepper my Dish 500 with buckshot, write my congressman, kick the dog, and say nasty things about Charlie!


----------



## space86

May 14th they might light up some more HD


----------



## Henry

space86 said:


> May 14th they might light up some more HD


Source?


----------



## James Long

The usual rumor and speculation mill.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Since we have rumor mills... should we also have rumor grinders? Or would a rumor grinder be the same as a rumor mill?


----------



## James Long

Rumor grinder makes me think of an organ grinder, playing a tune while the monkey dances and collects money. I guess that fits. :lol:


----------



## Cappyxavs

It has to be a rumor as several months ago a tabloid stated that according to nostradamus the world is due to end this sunday:lol:


----------



## davisdog

Either the world will end or Dish will add a whole bunch of National HD channels by 5/14...

I guarantee one or the other will happen


----------



## James Long

The signs are certainly pointing that way ... 16 new TMP channels in the tables on both 61.5° and 129° (plus the six named channels renamed on Wednesday).

But, alas, uplinked does NOT mean available. If it did Sci-Fi and USA would have been available back in December. 

There is a good chance that they will be made available ... especially with copies on two locations ... but they could be there just to show off to their retailers. There is NO guarantee that contracts are in place and all the t's are crossed and i's dotted.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> Rumor grinder makes me think of an organ grinder, playing a tune while the monkey dances and collects money. I guess that fits. :lol:


I didn't think of that... When I was typing, I was thinking of a pepper grinder.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

davisdog said:


> Either the world will end or Dish will add a whole bunch of National HD channels by 5/14...
> 
> I guarantee one or the other will happen


That's a strong guarantee. I really hope we see new HD then... although on the flip side, I have some bills due on the 15th, so if the world ends on 5/14 I'll save the money!


----------



## phrelin

The world ends 5/14. Never fails. That's always the way it is. After Mother's Day, but no Father's Day....


----------



## phrelin

OK, so what I'm reading on the latest uplink activity is the following HD nationals from the Charlie Chat were shown uplinked (or re-uplinked):

From NBC Universal Group: _Bravo_. If they were to turn it on, the NBCU group in the Charlie Chat that included SciFi and USA would be done.

From Disney Group: _Disney, Toon Disney, ABCFamily, ESPN News_. This is the complete Disney Group included in the Charlie Chat.

From TimeWarner Group: _Cartoon Network_. We have CNN, but not the two premiums HBO2 and MoreMAX mentioned in the Charlie Chat from this group.

We have been tentalized by some others being tested. But for logical marketing reasons I could see them turnng on this group soon.


----------



## Cappyxavs

phrelin said:


> The world ends 5/14. Never fails. That's always the way it is. After Mother's Day, but no Father's Day....


nope actualy the tabloid stated 5/11 not 5/14 for doomesday:lol:

so if the charlie channels go on line but there's no one here to watch them does it still count


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> From NBC Universal Group: _Bravo_. If they were to turn it on, the NBCU group in the Charlie Chat that included SciFi and USA would be done.


Also CNBC is 'reported' content on one of the TMP channels.

At the moment there are six named channels from the Wednesday Uplink Report and sixteen channels marked TMP from Friday. (I'm assuming that TMP1 is the same TMP1 regardless of transponder it is on and that the 5300 range will be for DISH Latino and the 3xx and 94xx numbered channels will be for the AT and standalone HD packages. TMP1 - TMP16.)

Ten of the 16 have been mysteriously named ... "Travel Channel, TWC, CNBC, MGM, Mojo, Smithsonian, WFN (gotta have the fish), Bio, HMC and Showtime2." I'm happy to see Smithsonian, MGM and Mojo back on the list. That leaves six "mystery channels" ... add a recent report of MAX-W and 5-MAX, four left to identify (likely the other two HBOs in that?).

But of course, all being TMP channels they could all go away next weekend just as easily as they came this weekend. The channels will be released when they are released.

But 22 uplinks ready to turn on? The stuff for sweet dreams of HD!


----------



## aloishus27

I'll bet those who couldn't wait to jump ship are really stating to think if that was such a good idea.

Like the catsup commercial says, "Best things come to those who wait."


----------



## GB1

Imagine the smiles on the faces of us who jumped FROM cable (comcast) to Dish. I have had more HD channels added in one week here than I did in two years with cable. ...and dont get me started on the 722 vs the motorola boxes!


----------



## Cappyxavs

aloishus27 said:


> I'll bet those who couldn't wait to jump ship are really stating to think if that was such a good idea.
> 
> Like the catsup commercial says, "Best things come to those who wait."


no not at all. it was the end of my contract and dish was really stroking me with getting my 612 units installed. 
it was not so much a matter of hd content as it was customer service.

with my current hardware configuration and no discounts taken into consideration i am getting a far better price when compared to dish. i had the 100 package with dish and i have the hd-dvr choice extra pack with D which is the equivelant of the dish 250 tier. one huge price cruncher here is the dvr fees are waived at this level and not what is considered an everything pack. since i have 3 hd-dvrs this saves 21 dollars right off the top and this level also includes hd-access in the package price.


----------



## rey_1178

Cappyxavs said:


> no not at all. it was the end of my contract and dish was really stroking me with getting my 612 units installed.
> it was not so much a matter of hd content as it was customer service.
> 
> with my current hardware configuration and no discounts taken into consideration i am getting a far better price when compared to dish. i had the 100 package with dish and i have the hd-dvr choice extra pack with D which is the equivelant of the dish 250 tier. one huge price cruncher here is the dvr fees are waived at this level and not what is considered an everything pack. since i have 3 hd-dvrs this saves 21 dollars right off the top and this level also includes hd-access in the package price.


besides the fact that E* is always late for everything it would be nice for once to be the 1st ones to have what becomes available and have no worries if negotiations are going to get done or if suddenly we'll wake up one day to find one of our favorite channels gone because of a dispute. maybe others go for the sports packages that D* has. for whatever reason someone goes it must be for something they're not getting from E*.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> Also CNBC is 'reported' content on one of the TMP channels.
> 
> At the moment there are six named channels from the Wednesday Uplink Report and sixteen channels marked TMP from Friday. (I'm assuming that TMP1 is the same TMP1 regardless of transponder it is on and that the 5300 range will be for DISH Latino and the 3xx and 94xx numbered channels will be for the AT and standalone HD packages. TMP1 - TMP16.)
> 
> Ten of the 16 have been mysteriously named ... "Travel Channel, TWC, CNBC, MGM, Mojo, Smithsonian, WFN (gotta have the fish), Bio, HMC and Showtime2." I'm happy to see Smithsonian, MGM and Mojo back on the list. That leaves six "mystery channels" ... add a recent report of MAX-W and 5-MAX, four left to identify (likely the other two HBOs in that?).
> 
> But of course, all being TMP channels they could all go away next weekend just as easily as they came this weekend. The channels will be released when they are released.
> 
> But 22 uplinks ready to turn on? The stuff for sweet dreams of HD!


That's a very promising list.

The puzzling thing right now is the missing Charlie Chat Viacom group: BET, CMT, MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1.

Not puzzling is the missing Rainbow Media Group: AMC, IFC. Maybe Charlie could get them to trade dropping four VOOM channels for AMC, WE, IFC, and the recently purchased Sundance Channel.:roundandr


----------



## James Long

CMT, MTV and VH1 are not HD ... just upconvert. I can see Viacom wanting all five and DISH saying "no" to the low/no HD channels. I believe people will be more happy with the ones that are "pending" than Viacom's group. Channels _with_ HD ... a few with a lot of HD.


----------



## jimborst

rey_1178 said:


> besides the fact that E* is always late for everything it would be nice for once to be the 1st ones to have what becomes available


If the Travel Channel is one of the channels, and if it is turned on soon it will be before Direct Tv (at least from the Travel Channel's website it says not available on Direct TV). If this does come on this week I can go all HD .


----------



## Cappyxavs

rey_1178 said:


> besides the fact that E* is always late for everything it would be nice for once to be the 1st ones to have what becomes available and have no worries if negotiations are going to get done or if suddenly we'll wake up one day to find one of our favorite channels gone because of a dispute. maybe others go for the sports packages that D* has. for whatever reason someone goes it must be for something they're not getting from E*.


besides since i had the 100 tier with E most of these new channels i may have never seen unless i give some extra cash for a better tier or the whole hd tier. as it was i was paying 21/month for dvr fees now i actualy pay less and get more programming. anything that comes to D in HD i will get at my current cost. outside of specialty sports packs like ST.

what really got me was i settled on being happy to get thursday night FB from NFL-HD in HD and then charlie took that away from me so i guess in response to that and losey CS all i did was take my funding away from charlie so we are even.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> CMT, MTV and VH1 are not HD ... just upconvert. I can see Viacom wanting all five and DISH saying "no" to the low/no HD channels. I believe people will be more happy with the ones that are "pending" than Viacom's group. Channels _with_ HD ... a few with a lot of HD.


Makes sense to me.

Now on to these:


TNGTony said:


> All present and accounted for:
> 
> TMP1 (Reported as The Travel Channel HD)
> TMP2 (Reported as The Weather Channel HD)
> TMP3 (Reported as CNBC HD)
> TMP4 (Reported as MGM HD)
> TMP5 (Reported as Mojo HD)
> TMP6 (Reported as Smithsonian HD)
> TMP7 (Reported as World Fishing Network HD)
> TMP8 (Reported as Cinemax West HD)
> TMP9 (Reported as 5-Star Max HD)
> TMP10 (Reported as The Tennis Channel HD)
> TMP11 (Reported as Biography Channel HD)
> TMP12 (Reported as Hallmark Movie Channel HD)
> TMP13 (Reported as Showtime 2 HD)
> TMP14 (Reported as Showtime West)
> TMP15 (Reported as WGN Superstation HD -- Not WGN 9 Chicago)
> TMP16 (Reported as TMC East)
> 
> *REMEMBER THAT CONTENT MAY CHANGE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON. THESE ARE TEMPORARY TEST CHANNELS AND MAY NEVER BE AVAILABLE TO SUBSCRIBERS.*
> Information about these channels came from nearly a dozen individual e-mails and info from the other site each filling in a little piece of the puzzle.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Most everything in the Charlie Chat list but Viacom and Rainbow Group channels are uplinked now. I know they won't all be turned on. Overall it seems like a good mix, though admittedly I'm not going to spend alot of time watching fishing or tennis.

Regardless, the Charlie Chat list included no News Corp. channels and it appears we aren't going to see any. (That's everything that begins with "Fox" plus channels like Fx and SPEED, ignoring regional sports and locals.)

Since Lifetime will soon be in HD, that might be a good audience focus to add. I don't know of any issues like lawsuits that would stand in the way. Figuring out what Dish might actually do is always so complicated, what with the lawsuits and all.


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> CMT, MTV and VH1 are not HD ... just upconvert. I can see Viacom wanting all five and DISH saying "no" to the low/no HD channels. I believe people will be more happy with the ones that are "pending" than Viacom's group. Channels _with_ HD ... a few with a lot of HD.


your'e not missing anything not having these three. there are a lot better "quality" HD channels out there that i wish D would shut these off and get something in true HD that's useful.


----------



## Oblong Desoto

MHD has a nice mix of content from MTV, VH1, and CMT, so I am in no hurry to get those. Does Nickelodeon actually have any HD shows?.


----------



## James Long

Speed HD is the most missing HD channel, in my opinion, and (of course) not on the lists. 

Perhaps that's just because next week's races are exclusive to Speed? :lol:


----------



## rey_1178

close this thread! :sure:


----------



## UKWildcatFan

James Long said:


> Speed HD is the most missing HD channel, in my opinion, and (of course) not on the lists.


Thats the 1 channel that I want. Then its gonna be only HD package for me.


----------



## ShawnL25

Oblong Desoto said:


> MHD has a nice mix of content from MTV, VH1, and CMT, so I am in no hurry to get those. Does Nickelodeon actually have any HD shows?.


yes


----------



## phrelin

Just a reminder, none of the following News Corp. owned cable channels have been listed among the various HD "soon" lists:

Fox Business Network
Fox Classics 
Fox Movie Channel
Fox News Channel
Fox Reality 
FX Networks 
SPEED Channel 
FUEL TV

No information about this is available, but the lawsuit which most assuredly displeases Rupert Murdoch probably doesn't help.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

The graphics were updated again sometime today on the Dish Web page. I believe all the new additions are there, and the SciFi and USA logos are now on the HD-only pack page.

More telling, perhaps are what icons are now missing!

Ultimate only has 5 of the Voom channel icons: Monsters, Kung-Fu, Rave, Rush, Equator

HD-only has 6 Voom icons: Monsters, Rave, Rush, Equator, Gameplay, Family Room

Not sure if this is a freudian slip or what since Kung-Fu is in one place and not the other... while Gameplay and Family Room are on the opposite place but not the other. I still have all of the Voom channels on my receiver... but it makes you wonder. It is one thing to forget to add an icon but to take half or more of them off?


----------



## lionsrule

So.......

Dish set TWO records today: Added the most HD channels in one day and DROPPED the most HD channels in one day.

You'll also notice that www.dishnetwork.com no longer lists a "stand alone" hd package as an option.


----------



## HobbyTalk

lionsrule said:


> You'll also notice that www.dishnetwork.com no longer lists a "stand alone" hd package as an option.


Sure they do
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


----------



## calgary2800

Than explains this

*DishHD programming is available only in conjunction with the following packages: America's Top 100, America's Top 200, America's Top 250, America's "Everything" Pak.
*
You still have to get at least AT 100 correct?


----------



## davisdog

calgary2800 said:


> Than explains this
> 
> *DishHD programming is available only in conjunction with the following packages: America's Top 100, America's Top 200, America's Top 250, America's "Everything" Pak.
> *
> You still have to get at least AT 100 correct?


Nope, you can get the HD only package by itself (without any SD).


----------



## CoolGui

calgary2800 said:


> Than explains this...


It's just an old area that didn't get found in the QC.  DishHD Only pack is certainly still available for now.


----------



## GrumpyBear

davisdog said:


> Nope, you can get the HD only package by itself (without any SD).


Looks like the HD Ultimate Package with the AT100 is only for new customers. Expires on 7/31/08 and for new Residental customers at that Low price.


----------



## davisdog

GrumpyBear said:


> Looks like the HD Ultimate Package with the AT100 is only for new customers. Expires on 7/31/08 and for new Residental customers at that Low price.


Any existing AT100 (or higher) customer can add HD Ultimate on top of their ATXXX package for an additional $20 (or HD Essential for $10)

What we are talking about is different...They have a "DISHHD" package for $30 which is an HD-Only package that you can get by itself.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


----------



## Jim5506

Switched from DVRAdvantage AT100 to DishHD Only pack this evening. All the HD channels are there, but some of the SD counterparts have not been set up yet.

No sd ver of ABC FAmily, Biography, Cartoon Net, CNBC, Toon Disney, Disney E, Travel Channel and Weather channel.

Hope they fix it soon, I still have 2 SD receivers in the house.


----------



## GrumpyBear

davisdog said:


> Any existing AT100 (or higher) customer can add HD Ultimate on top of their ATXXX package for an additional $20 (or HD Essential for $10)
> 
> What we are talking about is different...They have a "DISHHD" package for $30 which is an HD-Only package that you can get by itself.
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index3.shtml


I was replying back to Calgary2800. I understand about the HD only for 29.99, some go to the website or even in today's email, if you click on dishnetwork HDupdate, it shows you the HD Ultimate with AT100, for 49.99 a month.


----------



## grog

Here are some missing HD channels we need!

VOOM channels
--------------------
Film Fest-HD
Gallery-HD 
Treasure-HD 
Voom Movies-HD
World Sport-HD 
ULTRA-HD 
HD News Channel
Family Room-HD


----------



## peak_reception

grog said:


> Here are some missing HD channels we need!
> 
> VOOM channels
> --------------------
> Film Fest-HD
> Gallery-HD
> Treasure-HD
> Voom Movies-HD
> World Sport-HD
> ULTRA-HD
> HD News Channel
> Family Room-HD


 Plus Animania and Game Play. A total of 10 VOOM channels axed in the midnight massacre.


----------



## peak_reception

There certainly won't be any one response to all of this channel adding and subtracting. A lot will depend on what tier people are on (and of course what their personal preferences are).

Basically 17 new national HD channels were added yesterday [minus the three added earlier and the two RSNs]. 15 if you don't use premium movie channels like Cinemax [2 added].

10 VOOM channels were taken away.

So if you're in the AT-100 tier without HD ultimate, you gained 7 new national channels and lost 10 (voom). If you have Ultimate you gained 10 and lost 10.

If you're in AT-200 w/out Ultimate, you gained 9 and lost 10. Net gain of 2 if you have Ultimate.

If you're in AT-250 w/out Ultimate, you gained 12 and lost 10. Net gain of 5 if you have Ultimate.

Some people will say "good riddance" to VOOM and continue celebrating. Others enjoyed VOOM and will miss at least some of those channels while not being entirely happy with new channels like the World Fishing Network, premium channels, whatnot.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what else will be added before coming to conclusions.... Lots of changes, that's for sure.


----------



## neomaine

In the spirit of fairness, I have to give Dish credit here. About a month ago I was looking into alternatives to E* that I've been enjoying for 6+ years.

Cable (TW) was quickly thrown out. It had the channels I was missing (at the time, locals and rsn's in HD) but had a higher cost to similar programing, plus the receivers were more per month and the DVR only about 20 hrs. (Side note: I asked how much it could hold of SD and HD programing and the answer was still, 20 hrs. Makes me wonder what they did to the HD recordings....)

D* was next. It had all the basics I was looking for. All the locals, RSN in HD plus any of the regular watched channels in HD that we enjoyed.

Well, life got busy and I just didn't get around to it. Then I get an email saying that my locals were now available. NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX. Ok, FOX isn't in HD yet and I don't expect from what I've read here due the stations owenership but I don't care if American Idol and Dancing with the Stars is in HD. House would be nice but necessary. Anyway, I've got my locals.

Now I've got a bunch of other channels that are really nice to have. Probably not going to spend any major portion of our viewing time on them but it'll be nice to have them around.

So all in all, just wanted to play fair and say thanks for everything the last couple of weeks. Sure, it would have been nice a few months ago when D* got them, but hey, I'm glad I took my time to research a potential switch of providers.

Probably should keep this a gripe to stay on topic  :

My only major gripe on the lost Voom channels would be GamePlay. The kids and I would enjoy this every once in a while as a good 'surfing' channel.


----------



## dbconsultant

grog said:


> Here are some missing HD channels we need!
> 
> VOOM channels
> --------------------
> Film Fest-HD
> Gallery-HD
> Treasure-HD
> Voom Movies-HD
> World Sport-HD
> ULTRA-HD
> HD News Channel
> Family Room-HD


Ditto! Voom is what made Dish different from Direct. Direct and Dish will always eventually have the same national channels as each other (even though one may get them first, the other will catch up) but Voom made Dish unique.


----------



## GrumpyBear

So besides, the News Corp/Direct TV owned channels, what missing besides SpikeTV?


----------



## IDRick

FX in HD would be nice!  I would love to jump in to the HD-only package but I really want RSN's as well (especially FSN-North and BTN). For me it would be ideal if I could get *all* the HD nationals, RSN's, locals and a package like top 100.


----------



## eudoxia

IDRick said:


> FX in HD would be nice!  I would love to jump in to the HD-only package but I really want RSN's as well (especially FSN-North and BTN). For me it would be ideal if I could get *all* the HD nationals, RSN's, locals and a package like top 100.


Yes FXHD is a must when the final season of The Shield aires later this year.


----------



## GrumpyBear

eudoxia said:


> Yes FXHD is a must when the final season of The Shield aires later this year.


FX is a NewsCorp channel isn't it? I wouldn't count on it until after the hacker lawsuit is over.


----------



## cyberczar

peak_reception said:


> There certainly won't be any one response to all of this channel adding and subtracting. A lot will depend on what tier people are on (and of course what their personal preferences are).
> 
> Basically 17 new national HD channels were added yesterday [minus the three added earlier and the two RSNs]. 15 if you don't use premium movie channels like Cinemax [2 added].
> 
> 10 VOOM channels were taken away.
> 
> So if you're in the AT-100 tier without HD ultimate, you gained 7 new national channels and lost 10 (voom). If you have Ultimate you gained 10 and lost 10.
> 
> If you're in AT-200 w/out Ultimate, you gained 9 and lost 10. Net gain of 2 if you have Ultimate.
> 
> If you're in AT-250 w/out Ultimate, you gained 12 and lost 10. Net gain of 5 if you have Ultimate.
> 
> Some people will say "good riddance" to VOOM and continue celebrating. Others enjoyed VOOM and will miss at least some of those channels while not being entirely happy with new channels like the World Fishing Network, premium channels, whatnot.
> 
> I guess we'll have to wait and see what else will be added before coming to conclusions.... Lots of changes, that's for sure.


I think your math is a little fuzzy. The Essential customers didn't lose any Voom Channels, as they weren't included in those packages. So they actually saw more of a benefit numbers-wise. That still doesn't excuse them for shutting down the channels like that, however... So, not counting Cinemax or RSNs:

AT100 & HD Essentials - Gained 7 = Net Gain of 7
AT100 & HD Ultimate - Gained 10, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 0
AT200 & HD Essentials - Gained 9 = Net Gain of 9
AT200 & HD Ultimate - Gained 12, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 2
AT250 & HD Essentials - Gained 12 = Net Gain of 12
AT250 & HD Ultimate - Gained 15, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 5
HD Standalone - Gained 15, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 5

AT100 & Essentials:
• ABC Family HD (DISH Network Ch. 180)
• Cartoon HD (Ch. 176)
• CNBC HD (Ch. 208)
• Disney HD East (Ch. 172)
• ESPNews HD (Ch. 142)
• Travel Channel HD (Ch. 215)
• Weather Channel HD (Ch. 214)

AT200 & Essentials, Add:
• Bravo HD (Ch. 129)
• Toon Disney HD (Ch. 174)

AT250 & Essentials, Add:
• Biography HD (Ch. 119)
• Hallmark Movie Channel HD (Ch. 187)
• Tennis Channel HD (Ch. 400)

HD Ultimate, Add to above:
• MGM HD (Ch. 385)
• Smithsonian HD (Ch. 374)
• World Fishing Network HD (Ch. 396)


----------



## Cappyxavs

Did The voom channel Monster-HD survive?


----------



## dclaryjr

Cappyxavs said:


> Did The voom channel Monster-HD survive?


For now, yes, but it appears the entire Voom line-up will be gone soon.


----------



## HDRoberts

GrumpyBear said:


> So besides, the News Corp/Direct TV owned channels, what missing besides SpikeTV?


According to a list at Wikipedia (perhaps a suspect source, but better than nothing), here's what we are missing, with who owns them. Correct me if I'm wrong or missing anything.

Chiller HD (NBCU)
FX HD (Fox)
Mojo HD (Comcast, Cox, TWC)
Nick HD (Viacom)
Spike HD (Viacom)
Lifetime Movie Network (Lifetime)
WE HD (Rainbow)
Wealth HD (Herring Broadcasting)
AMC HD (Rainbow)
IFC HD (Rainbow)
CMT HD (Viacom)
Fuse HD (Rainbow)
MTV HD (Viacom)
VH1 HD (Viacom)
Fox News HD (Fox)
Fox Business Net HD (Fox)
CBS College Sports (CBS)
Fuel HD (Fox)
Outdoor Channel 2 (Outdoor Channel Holdings)
Speed HD (Fox)
Golf/Versus as separate channels

A few Premiums
Maybe a few RSNs

Coming Soon nets (According to Wiki)
MSNBC HD (NBCU)
MavTV HD
Hallmark HD (Crown Media)
Sleuth HD (NBCU)
Comedy Central (Viacom)
BBC America (Discovery Communications)

21 basic netwoks, plus 6 more before long, not counting premiums/RSNs/Penthouse. Dish still has more work to do. As you can see, a good chunk comes from 4 providers: Viacom, Fox/News Corp, Rainbow Media, and NBC Universal.


----------



## Cappyxavs

dclaryjr said:


> For now, yes, but it appears the entire Voom line-up will be gone soon.


Too bad... Monster-HD was the only regret i had leaving Dish. if it goes there is nothing that would bring me back as D has plenty of nationals.

i thought that dish purchased the voom network? are they using the voom sat to componsate for the loss of the one that did not make orbit?


----------



## jpeckinp

So by adding the channels yesterday Dish said they had 95 HD channels now they eliminate 10 to go back to 85 so do we want to guess at the 15 that get added by the end of the year to make that 100 claim?

From the list above here is 9 I'll take:
Chiller
FX
MOJO
AMC
IFC
Speed
Sleuth
Comedy
BBC

Now anything in HD is always good but those are just my list of what I would like to see. Now if they added all of them it would be great.

MavHD has been around all of the NBA season hasn't it?


----------



## kal915

FX HD would be awesome, since they how a lot of movies i like


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Miscellaneous replies...

ChillerHD does not exist. Rumor mill even suggests it may not exist due to lack of success thus far for the SD channel.

Dish has been using the "Voom satellite" ever since they bought it. I don't know where the confusion keeps coming from on Dish and Voom. Dish bought the old Voom/Rainbow satellite and has been using it for a while now. Dish also invested in Voom/Rainbow to the tune of around 20% I think so they have some stake in the Voom channels, but are very much a minority interest there.


----------



## cyberczar

cyberczar said:


> I think your math is a little fuzzy. The Essential customers didn't lose any Voom Channels, as they weren't included in those packages. So they actually saw more of a benefit numbers-wise. That still doesn't excuse them for shutting down the channels like that, however... So, not counting Cinemax or RSNs:
> 
> AT100 & HD Essentials - Gained 7 = Net Gain of 7
> AT100 & HD Ultimate - Gained 10, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 0
> AT200 & HD Essentials - Gained 9 = Net Gain of 9
> AT200 & HD Ultimate - Gained 12, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 2
> AT250 & HD Essentials - Gained 12 = Net Gain of 12
> AT250 & HD Ultimate - Gained 15, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 5
> HD Standalone - Gained 15, Lost 10 = Net Gain of 5
> 
> AT100 & Essentials:
> • ABC Family HD (DISH Network Ch. 180)
> • Cartoon HD (Ch. 176)
> • CNBC HD (Ch. 208)
> • Disney HD East (Ch. 172)
> • ESPNews HD (Ch. 142)
> • Travel Channel HD (Ch. 215)
> • Weather Channel HD (Ch. 214)
> 
> AT200 & Essentials, Add:
> • Bravo HD (Ch. 129)
> • Toon Disney HD (Ch. 174)
> 
> AT250 & Essentials, Add:
> • Biography HD (Ch. 119)
> • Hallmark Movie Channel HD (Ch. 187)
> • Tennis Channel HD (Ch. 400)
> 
> HD Ultimate, Add to above:
> • MGM HD (Ch. 385)
> • Smithsonian HD (Ch. 374)
> • World Fishing Network HD (Ch. 396)


Okay, so looks like I spoke too soon
**** you, Dish
No amount of creative math can excuse this one.


----------



## peak_reception

cyberczar, you're right, my math *was* fuzzy! For some reason (I'll blame a long day and the shock of seeing 10 Voom channels go Poof in the night) I was thinking that VOOM channels were included with the Essentials package. Of course that was wrong. And now no VOOM channels are included in any package, so the math gets a lot easier. 

Seismic Upheaval from DISH this week, that's for sure. How it will play out, nobody knows. I guess we'll need to speculate


----------



## Paul Secic

cyberczar said:


> Okay, so looks like I spoke too soon
> **** you, Dish
> No amount of creative math can excuse this one.


So there's about 4 channels in Ultimate. Its not worth $10. I'm back with HBO. I'm upset they put MGMHD in Ultimate.


----------



## Hamp89

Paul Secic said:


> So there's about 4 channels in Ultimate. Its not worth $10. I'm back with HBO. I'm upset they put MGMHD in Ultimate.


Same here, I'd rather add another premium like HBO, then pay the same $10 for the few channels in Ultimate.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Paul Secic said:


> So there's about 4 channels in Ultimate. Its not worth $10. I'm back with HBO. I'm upset they put MGMHD in Ultimate.


Technically speaking there are 7 channels in the Ultimate package:

UniversalHD, NBAHD, NHLHD, WFNHD, MGMHD, SmithsonianHD, and HDNet Movies

That said, I do agree the package is not as valuable as it was when there were 22 in it, before the 15 Vooms were dropped.


----------



## dclaryjr

HDMe said:


> Technically speaking there are 7 channels in the Ultimate package:
> 
> UniversalHD, NBAHD, NHLHD, WFNHD, MGMHS, SmithsonianHD, and HDNet Movies
> 
> .


Yep, and there's no way I'm dropping Universal with the Olympics just around the corner!!


----------



## Cappyxavs

Looks like Monster HD is gone..... 

now i am glad i opted to change to D.


----------



## GrumpyBear

dclaryjr said:


> Yep, and there's no way I'm dropping Universal with the Olympics just around the corner!!


Granted its a news channel, but don't forget CNBC, they will be showing lots of the Olympics as well. CNBC carries lots of good sports during both Summer and the last Winter Olympics.


----------



## Paul Secic

HDMe said:


> Technically speaking there are 7 channels in the Ultimate package:
> 
> UniversalHD, NBAHD, NHLHD, WFNHD, MGMHD, SmithsonianHD, and HDNet Movies
> 
> That said, I do agree the package is not as valuable as it was when there were 22 in it, before the 15 Vooms were dropped.


I'm still getting HDNet, HDMovies and MHD in the lower tier.


----------



## harsh

Paul Secic said:


> I'm still getting HDNet, HDMovies and MHD in the lower tier.


HDNet and MHD are in the lower tier, so you shouldn't be confused about them.

I'll bet you're not getting HDNet Movies with dishHD Essential.


----------



## Paul Secic

harsh said:


> HDNet and MHD are in the lower tier, so you shouldn't be confused about them.
> 
> I'll bet you're not getting HDNet Movies with dishHD Essential.


You're right I'm not HDNet Movies. Sorry my bad.


----------



## Cappyxavs

aloishus27 said:


> I'll bet those who couldn't wait to jump ship are really stating to think if that was such a good idea.
> 
> Like the catsup commercial says, "Best things come to those who wait."


after seeing the changes and cuts E made to get those new channels and the loss of Monsters HD i can tell you now how very happy i am that i went to D! 
now i'm kinda hoping there is a way D can pick up Monsters hd it would complement Chiller.


----------



## James Long

If Voom doesn't get it's act together and work out a deal with DISH I expect that it will be out of business (again) by the end of the year. Voom could try a deal with DirecTV to save their bacon but they are going to have to improve their program offerings first.


----------



## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> If Voom doesn't get it's act together and work out a deal with DISH I expect that it will be out of business (again) by the end of the year. Voom could try a deal with DirecTV to save their bacon but they are going to have to improve their program offerings first.


Agreed, Voom did not have a whole lot to offer. For me they had three channels:
Monsters, Family and Rave. I am kind of hoping that Voom can cut some kind of deal with D as i believe that D has plenty of ability, sat wise, to carry the Voom networks.


----------



## James Long

Along with the channels DISH just added that DirecTV has not added yet?


----------



## grog

Like WFN-HD? :lol: 


James Long said:


> Along with the channels DISH just added that DirecTV has not added yet?


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## Cappyxavs

grog said:


> Like WFN-HD? :lol:


darn and Basket Weaving HD (BWHD) lost out again:lol:


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## James Long

DirecTV has it's fair share of "non-HD" channels as well. Be nice!


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## Cappyxavs

James Long said:


> DirecTV has it's fair share of "non-HD" channels as well. Be nice!


Oh yes you're not kidding and D has no excuse as they have plenty of sat resources to light up some more hd. maybe we need a no HD gripe thread for D:lol:

One channel i would like to see is BBC-HD which i believe neither service is carrying.


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## grog

I would love to see a full BBC feed. BBC1, BBC2, BBC3 and BBC4 in HD would be great.

Look what plays on BBC-2. Note the 11:40 PM timeslot!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/index.shtml?service_id=4224&day=friday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/later/



Cappyxavs said:


> Oh yes you're not kidding and D has no excuse as they have plenty of sat resources to light up some more hd. maybe we need a no HD gripe thread for D:lol:
> 
> One channel i would like to see is BBC-HD which i believe neither service is carrying.


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## CoolGui

Well I've never seen the actual BBC channels on cable or dish. Maybe directv has it, I have never used them. But, BBC America has announced plans to start in HD this year. Not sure if anyone is carrying it, but there you go.

According to the wikipedia page, it's been known to air on Fuse, Ovation and BBC America. So maybe BBC America HD is exactly what we need?


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## nmetro

Channels like BBC, ITV, SKY, CBC, Global, CTV, etc., will never make it to satellite or cable. Mainly because of the Satellite Home Viewer Act (NAB protection act actually) and broadcast exclusives for programming on the Canadian and British channels when broadcast in the US. think "Dr Who" for example. SciFi has an exclusive to show the program in the US.

Now of course, if you happen in live in Canada, you can get any Canadian TV station you choose. Also, you can get ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX from either Seattle or Detroit. You can can get much on ESPN via the various sports networks offered up there. Finally, they offer BBC Canada and BBC World.

It would be nice if these were available for a fee, but NAB, Congress and the copyright people would have a field day.


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## CoolGui

nmetro said:


> ...think "Dr Who" for example. SciFi has an exclusive to show the program in the US...


Well, Sci-Fi doesn't have an exclusive though, as BBC America does show Dr. Who episodes, sometimes NEW ones before they air on Sci-Fi.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/content/123/index.jsp


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## kal915

Cappyxavs said:


> ...I am kind of hoping that Voom can cut some kind of deal with D as i believe that D has plenty of ability, sat wise, to carry the Voom networks.


Keep hoping, D* will probably never add them beacause they're "the channels nobody has heard of"


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## Stewart Vernon

CoolGui said:


> Well, Sci-Fi doesn't have an exclusive though, as BBC America does show Dr. Who episodes, sometimes NEW ones before they air on Sci-Fi.http://www.bbcamerica.com/content/123/index.jsp


Last I looked, BBC America was showing Season 3 while SciFi is currently showing Season 4. I have not seen an episode on BBC America before it was first shown on SciFi.

Torchwood, on the other hand, is different... BBC America has been premiering those, then HDNet shows them 1-2 weeks later in HD.


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## CoolGui

HDMe said:


> Last I looked, BBC America was showing Season 3 while SciFi is currently showing Season 4. I have not seen an episode on BBC America before it was first shown on SciFi.
> 
> Torchwood, on the other hand, is different... BBC America has been premiering those, then HDNet shows them 1-2 weeks later in HD.


Could be I was thinking of Torchwood, however I have seen newer episodes on BBC America than they are showing now (in comparison to Sci-Fi). I won't go as far to say I'm certain they have aired them before Sci-Fi but either way, it's still not exclusive.


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## Stewart Vernon

CoolGui said:


> Could be I was thinking of Torchwood, however I have seen newer episodes on BBC America than they are showing now (in comparison to Sci-Fi). I won't go as far to say I'm certain they have aired them before Sci-Fi but either way, it's still not exclusive.


You're absolutely 100% correct about it not being exclusive. I wouldn't even be surprised if BBC America showed Dr Who first... but I haven't seen any indicators of that. If I had, I'd be watching BBC America instead of SciFi since I'm not watching in anything but letterbox mode anyway... I'd prefer watching them earlier on BBC America instead of waiting.

In the case of Torchwood, besides not being HD on BBC America, supposedly they are semi-censored as well (though I've not watched to prove it) and of course HDNet airs them without commercial interruption. For Dr Who, it would be no difference in the way of airing, so I'd watch on BBC America if it offered them up earlier.

I'll also be paying attention when BBC America HD launches for shows like Dr Who to see if they air them full widescreen instead of letterbox like SciFiHD has been doing.


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## ziltomil

HDMe said:


> Last I looked, BBC America was showing Season 3 while SciFi is currently showing Season 4. I have not seen an episode on BBC America before it was first shown on SciFi.
> 
> Torchwood, on the other hand, is different... BBC America has been premiering those, then HDNet shows them 1-2 weeks later in HD.


I thought doctor who was on season 30...?


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## Stewart Vernon

ziltomil said:


> I thought doctor who was on season 30...?


Only if you go back and add them all together. From the BBC perspective they "started over" and have been referring to the most recent episodes as Series 1, Series 2, and so on to current Series 4.

For new folks it is less daunting than being on season 30! For old folks we have to just remember.


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## RasputinAXP

HDMe said:


> I'll also be paying attention when BBC America HD launches for shows like Dr Who to see if they air them full widescreen instead of letterbox like SciFiHD has been doing.


Well, I don't know if they will...Doctor Who isn't HD, it's just standard def PAL format instead of NTSC.

Torchwood, however, is filmed in HD and Russell T. Davies has already said that as long as he's in charge Doctor Who will never go HD because they'll have to redesign the sets. He said something like "otherwise you'd see all the duct tape and things that aren't quite right."

I am loving HDNet's reruns of Torchwood, though.


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## James Long

HDMe said:


> For new folks it is less daunting than being on season 30! For old folks we have to just remember.


What season is Law & Order on? 

I remember the old Dr Who from the 70's ... which makes any modern version as unrelated to the Who I know as much as TNG, DS9 and Enterprise are "Star Trek". Yeah, it is _a_ Dr Who ... but it isn't _the_ Dr Who.


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## Cappyxavs

kal915 said:


> Keep hoping, D* will probably never add them beacause they're "the channels nobody has heard of"


Never say never... the new slogan may be "The most HD On TV even HD you've never heard of"
i can only hope even if it is a bleak hope


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## rey_1178

Cappyxavs said:


> Never say never... the new slogan may be "The most HD On TV even HD you've never heard of"


LOL! :uglyhamme


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## Stewart Vernon

RasputinAXP said:


> Well, I don't know if they will...Doctor Who isn't HD, it's just standard def PAL format instead of NTSC.


That's not really the problem though. It is shot in widescreen, and should be shown in proper aspect on the HD channel even though not in HD. When the BBC releases DVDs here in the US (through Warner Brothers) those are widescreen 16x9 releases and not letterbox. There is no reason SciFiHD cannot upconvert the 576i of the BBC to something closer to full widescreen rather than just going on the cheap and putting it in a letterbox.

Sad fact is that SciFiHD is even doing this "on the cheap" with many of their own shows... Something Universal/NBC owns and has shown on UniversalHD is repeated on SciFiHD in letterbox... and their own made-for-SciFi programs are shown in letterbox instead of HD.

So it really isn't about an inability to show Dr Who in widescreen... but rather a laziness and lack of incentive on the part of SciFiHD to do so.


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## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> What season is Law & Order on?
> 
> I remember the old Dr Who from the 70's ... which makes any modern version as unrelated to the Who I know as much as TNG, DS9 and Enterprise are "Star Trek". Yeah, it is _a_ Dr Who ... but it isn't _the_ Dr Who.


Yeah, I lost track of the Law & Order season #s quite a while ago... To some extent I also agree on Dr Who. I'm an old fan so my favorite Doctor is still one of the old-series guys... but the new shows are surprisingly good sometimes. A lot of the old feel is still there but with better budgets this time around!


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## TBoneit

HDMe said:


> That's not really the problem though. It is shot in widescreen, and should be shown in proper aspect on the HD channel even though not in HD. When the BBC releases DVDs here in the US (through Warner Brothers) those are widescreen 16x9 releases and not letterbox. There is no reason SciFiHD cannot upconvert the 576i of the BBC to something closer to full widescreen rather than just going on the cheap and putting it in a letterbox.
> 
> Sad fact is that SciFiHD is even doing this "on the cheap" with many of their own shows... Something Universal/NBC owns and has shown on UniversalHD is repeated on SciFiHD in letterbox... and their own made-for-SciFi programs are shown in letterbox instead of HD.
> 
> So it really isn't about an inability to show Dr Who in widescreen... but rather a laziness and lack of incentive on the part of SciFiHD to do so.


Or maybe not Laziness but a desire to diferentiate the two channels. Or it could be that each has to do things within a certain budget and the Sci-Fi channels pay less for the SD LB versions. I have no knowledge of how shows are distributed but I suspect that distributing a SDshow to a network is cjheaper than doing it in HD?


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## Stewart Vernon

TBoneit said:


> I have no knowledge of how shows are distributed but I suspect that distributing a SDshow to a network is cjheaper than doing it in HD?


I suspect this as well... but that said, it isn't an excuse. No point in launching an HD channel if they aren't going to air HD content on it, right? Why would I buy a Porsche if I was going to drive it off-road in the mud?

I was firmly in the "what's the hurry" camp over some of these new "HD" channels, especially after hearing from DirecTV customers who already were stating not much HD on many of the new channels... but enough folks were in the "If Dish doesn't get it I'll quit" camp that I guess ultimately forced Dish to sign up some more of the new HD channels.... and now everyone is seeing what they should have known from when DirecTV added the channels... that some channels aren't airing much HD at all.

I want more HD... but adding a channel that shows maybe an hour or two a day of HD doesn't give me much really... In fact for me, the only thing I get to watch on SciFi right now actually in HD is Battlestar Galactica. When Eureka comes back I'll have that... but nothing else is in HD on SciFi that I watch... even though they have lots of stuff they could be showing in HD if they even shared their NBC/Universal content across their suite of channels.


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## CoolGui

HDMe said:


> ... When Eureka comes back I'll have that...


Is it confirmed that they will be broadcasting that in HD? There are only a handful of shows I watch on Sci-Fi, I wish they were all HD, but I can't blame them for Dr. Who (however I can blame them for at least not upsizing it to fit the screen, no stretch needed). I also watch Atlantis and Eureka, I think that's about all I watch on that channel. If those are in HD, I'll be happy. Not sure why they aren't airing the newer SG1 reruns in HD, but I'm guessing they just don't have the rights or media.


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## RAD

Eureka reruns shown a couple weeks ago were in HD so I'd have to guess the new season would also be in HD.


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## CoolGui

RAD said:


> Eureka reruns shown a couple weeks ago were in HD so I'd have to guess the new season would also be in HD.


That's good news, thanks for the info.


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## Stewart Vernon

CoolGui said:


> Is it confirmed that they will be broadcasting that in HD? There are only a handful of shows I watch on Sci-Fi, I wish they were all HD, but I can't blame them for Dr. Who (however I can blame them for at least not upsizing it to fit the screen, no stretch needed). I also watch Atlantis and Eureka, I think that's about all I watch on that channel. If those are in HD, I'll be happy. Not sure why they aren't airing the newer SG1 reruns in HD, but I'm guessing they just don't have the rights or media.


RAD beat me to answering about Eureka... I agree with you on Dr Who, I don't blame them for not having it in HD since it isn't shot in HD... but I do blame them for not showing in its proper aspect ratio larger than letterbox. Fact is, I can zoom it (I do) to fill the screen and it looks nice... but that means I'm cutting off other things, like their commercials... and advertisers probably wouldn't like knowing that! 

My gripe with many of these channels (particularly the Universal/NBC family) is that even when you know they have it in HD, they still aren't showing it. They'll run something in HD on UniversalHD but not on SciFi or USA HD... which makes no sense given that they are all the same company! They also will show something in HD one day, but in letterbox a week later. They don't even show things on SciFiHD that were made for SciFi so you know they have the rights, and you know they have it in HD because it was shot that way.


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## fredp

Well I'm one of those looking forward to the new season of Eureka. I got hooked on it last year and enjoyed it. Other then BSG which I got into this year grudgedly there isn't much else. This Holy Grail HD channel for so many is a bust in my mind but hopefully will get better. Time will tell.


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## phrelin

Well, Holy Grail is hardly what I'd call it. But I wanted BSG, SGA, and Eureka. Others will come.

It's frustrating to know that all that bandwidth is wasted on 4 networks showing hours of cheap reality tv in HD. Whatever happened to creativity - writing, acting, directing? Oh, that's right...labor disputes and all.... Money is the root of all reality tv.


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## clapple

phrelin said:


> Well, Holy Grail is hardly what I'd call it. But I wanted BSG, SGA, and Eureka. Others will come.
> 
> It's frustrating to know that all that bandwidth is wasted on 4 networks showing hours of cheap reality tv in HD. Whatever happened to creativity - writing, acting, directing? Oh, that's right...labor disputes and all.... Money is the root of all reality tv.


Hell, for the people that invented 'reality tv", should be to sit and watch it for eternity!


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## kal915

phrelin said:


> Well, Holy Grail is hardly what I'd call it. But I wanted BSG, SGA, and Eureka. Others will come.
> 
> It's frustrating to know that all that bandwidth is wasted on 4 networks showing hours of cheap reality tv in HD. Whatever happened to creativity - writing, acting, directing? Oh, that's right...labor disputes and all.... Money is the root of all reality tv.


What would those channels be?


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## Cappyxavs

HDMe said:


> My gripe with many of these channels (particularly the Universal/NBC family) is that even when you know they have it in HD, they still aren't showing it.


I agree this is annoying. when i first got SCFI HD i was all excited and then the let downs; Dr who in pillar box, where is all the HD? most of the evening is filled with SD programing.

when i look through my HD programming i see this repeated a number of channels however their are exceptions like HIstory, Disc, Disc sci,TLC, MGMHD, UHD, Smithsonian etc and fortunately these are the channels i really enjoy.

almost 99.9% of the time i will choose a show in hd over any sd show and as i set up my DVR and surf my guide this is my priority. it would be a wise choice for SCIFI to get with the program. this panns out to my locals as they are not in HD i have almost discontinued watching them with the exception of three shows.. House, Ghost Whisperer and are you smarter than a 5th grader.


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## RasputinAXP

HDMe said:


> That's not really the problem though. It is shot in widescreen, and should be shown in proper aspect on the HD channel even though not in HD. When the BBC releases DVDs here in the US (through Warner Brothers) those are widescreen 16x9 releases and not letterbox. There is no reason SciFiHD cannot upconvert the 576i of the BBC to something closer to full widescreen rather than just going on the cheap and putting it in a letterbox.
> 
> Sad fact is that SciFiHD is even doing this "on the cheap" with many of their own shows... Something Universal/NBC owns and has shown on UniversalHD is repeated on SciFiHD in letterbox... and their own made-for-SciFi programs are shown in letterbox instead of HD.
> 
> So it really isn't about an inability to show Dr Who in widescreen... but rather a laziness and lack of incentive on the part of SciFiHD to do so.


OK, that I understand. When I was downloading the previous season from a couple of torrent sites (can't be BEHIND my friends in the UK more than a few hours, darnit!) I filled the screen using my HTPC and it was gloriously great.

That said, yeah they should be at least broadcasting it in 'full 16x9' instead of giving us double-letterboxed.


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## rey_1178

damn nothing today!


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## space86

SOON


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## Paul Secic

clapple said:


> Hell, for the people that invented 'reality tv", should be to sit and watch it for eternity!


That's exactly what you will from Viacom/MTV lots of stupid reality shows. I read about it on Multichannel.com last month. So don't expect much.


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