# FROM DISH: Jittery Video Data Collection Part 2 - Please Respond



## Mark Lamutt

I just received this call for information from Dish this morning. Please respond if you currently experiencing the jittery video bug, or have experienced it since L211 downloaded.

What is the hardware version of your 921? The hardware version is the 4 letter code immediately after the software version in your system info page. For example, mine reads L211HECD-N. The HECD is the hardware version.

We're working very hard trying to track the exact cause of this down, and all of your assistence with this is greatly appreciated and helpful.

*EDIT: One more thing here - please add when you purchased your 921.*


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## boylehome

Mark, I experience the jitters on both 921's. Info. you desire is below.
L211HECD-N - pruchased July 04
L211HEED-N - pruchased December 04


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## Rory

Hecd

Purchased early October 2004


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## clarkbri

L211heed-n


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## M492A

L211heed-n


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## Todd G.

HECD


Todd


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## GBrock

HECD
Jan 2004


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## FaxMan

Hardware info in signature.

Purchased in May 2004.

BTW, I haven't seen the jitter for a while now while viewing live, but I was able to re-create the pause step forward jitter discussed elsewhere.

I believe my jitter _may_ have been during the period I had output set to 720p. I'm going to go there again and see what happens.


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## Bogney

Hecd
1-23-04


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## pdlittle

Hardware Code: HECD-N
Purchase Date: January 11, 2004


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## MooseTyln

Mine was purchased in October, 2004.

SW: L211HECD-N


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## pweezil

HECD
Purchased 7/2004


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## scpanel

L211heed-n


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## guruka

Purchased January 12, 2004

Hardware info in sig below.

.....G


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## Mike D-CO5

Purchased in May of this year . Starting seeing the jittery video on sd and it is happening very sporadically. It comes and goes . Sometimes it is on live ota station and sometimes it is on recorded sd material from the satellite. I don't really know what is causing it , but it didn't exist till L211 software update. 

L211HECD-N
boot 120B
flash F051


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## cschlik

L211-heed-n


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## Oldcoot

HECD
Purchased 7 Dec 2004


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## Paradox-sj

L211HEED-N
December 08, 2004


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## wyseguy

L211HEED-N

It's a dammed annoying bug, which seems to only happen with SD material, and usually starts right after using the FF/REW functions. The only way to clear it appears to be to hard reset the 921.

Date purchased: (original unit) November 15, 2004. This also happens with the new replacement unit I got from Dish to resolve a different problem. I received the replacement unit December 16th.


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## motleyb1

L211HEED-N

October 2004


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## Big D

Hardware Code: HECD-N
Purchase Date: January 7, 2004 (one of the very first units shipped)


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## mdellis33

L211HEED-N
Nov 2004


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## MVL999

L211HECD-N
PURCHASED 12/04
resetting it by holding the power button stops it for awhile.


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## Onawa

L211HEED-N

Purchased 11/04


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## lenny

L211HECD-N - October 2004

I'd like to add that, it hasn't happened to us for approx 1.5 weeks. Before 1.5 weeks ago it used to happen alot. The only thing that *may* have changed is I power button reboot the machine much more often to get my caller id working.

Lenny


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## mgamber

L211HEED-N

Bought withing the last month.


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## bryan92

Mine just started. First time Ive noticed it. I was familiar with it happening by reading it here. 
Purchased last month
Happening on both SD and HD.


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## OldGuy

Just since L211. Purchased November 2004. HEED-N


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## NukeBug

mine was doing this too up until about 1.5 weeks ago until I did a power button reset.
Purchased 9/04

L211HEED-N


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## mwsmith2

Info in sig, purchased Nov, a few days after the price drop. Haven't seen the jitters in a while though.....

Michael


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## lujan

Hardware Code: HECD-N
Purchase Date: July 27, 2004 (2nd Unit, first purchased February 2004).
L211HECD-N
Output Mode: 720p
Aspect Ratio: 16X9
DVI to HDMI Cable
Monitor: Mitsubishi DLP 62525
Always use HD mode (blue light)

The show was a recorded satellite SD program. It happened to be one of the satellite local stations. I have not noticed this when recording satellite HD or OTA HD shows.


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## axel0720

I received my 921 12/21/04 and all went normal, it was a couple of days later when I got my first jitters but I had this same experience with my 811 and like the 811 all I did was power down and if I remember correctly I had to power down twice and it stopped . I have only had the jitter problem once and when the problem occurred changing settings, so I guess the mystery continues.


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## wuertele

L211-HECD-N
Purchased used in March
Jitters occasionally, power cycle fixes it


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## Jason Kragt

SW Version: L211HECD-N

I purchased last month (November 2004).

I think that the folks suggesting that rebooting might be on to something. I had a recording of "Frasier" that was extremely jittery last night. A technician from Dish was out to take a look at my "0 second" recording problem today. I thought that I would spring this issue on him too. As luck would have it, that same recording of "Frasier" played much smoother today. The only significant thing I can think of that happened since then was a nightly reboot.

If my 921 were a PC (which in a way it is), I would suspect that there are some unterminated processes stealing CPU cycles and making the system sluggish when it goes a long time without rebooting.


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## klaatu

921 is L211HECD-N 9/04

I have notice that it only occurs when I am recording on both tuners with a HD channel (Sat or OTA) and watching a previously recorded show or watching HD with HD recording.


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## keitheva

L211HECD-N
Purchased 1/04
720P output


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## boatdrink

HECD-N
Sept, 2004


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## DLBTiger

Have sporatically gotten jittery crawlers at the bottom of the screen. Every time I was able to remedy the problem by cycling through aspect ratios. 

HECD


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## gboot

L211HEED-N
Nov 2004


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## Jeffrey

L211HEED-N
TV is a 65" Toshiba Cinema Series

I got my 1st 921 early Dec. It was replaced 10 days ago with a new 921 due to the jitters. Both 921's jitter frequently and reboots do not work or work for only a few minutes. The jitters exist equally on HD, SD and on S-Video and Component. The various techs that have come to my house to see for themselves, or whom I talk to on the phone, knew nothing about the jitters and claim their is nothing in their support database.

By jitters, I mean that a car that should move smoothly across the screen, instead stutters in fits and spurts across the screen. Football is completely unwachable, as ghosts trail all movement and everything that moves is blurry. It does this most, but not all of the time.

On occasions when jitters are absent and when the picture is completely still, there is shimmer here and there throughout the screen and pixelation that never existed in the 2-3 years I had the 501. Also, edges are blurry to the point of causing headaches. Both units locked up every other day.

All in all, the 921 "upgrade" has been a disaster and I recommend avoid at all cost until D* can figure it out and their tech support can pick up in less than 30 minutes average hold time.


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## tbeuthin

L211HEED-N

Purchased/Ordered 12/10/04
1st Activated 12/20/04

Happened today on SD 
News channels like 205 and 209 have shakey crawlers
OK after pulling smartcard and reboot (till next time).


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## Jeffrey

I spent 3.75 hours on the phone with D* yesterday about the jitter problem, finally ending up with Maurice & his supervisor Mark in the Advanced Tech Support Group. They claim they know nothing about and have no reports of the jitter problem. I gave up and got RAs for my two 921's.


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## jadebox

HEED
Purchased Dec. 2004.


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## MCAT

Happening numerous time throughout the day.
Purchased 1 week ago - 12/27/04
SW Version: L211HEED-N
Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F053


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## krt

L211HEED-N
Flash: F053
Boot: 150B

Originally, purchased Nov 04. However, receiver was replaced by Dish last week due to a faulty tuner.


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## dishguy

Hardware Code: HECD-N
Purchase Date: Feb 2004


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## Erik6765

Purchased 11-30-04


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## devough

hecd

I found a quick fix if I push the format button it stops jerking for awhile.


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## oljim

Heed-n
11/04


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## DonLandis

I have HECD

Since I only have this jitter bug with recordings made after 12/7 the date of the L211 download, I have stopped recording, ie using the 921 altogether as a DVR. So far this is the only work around that consistently works for me, use the HDTIVO for all DVR functions. None of the power cord reboots and other hocus pocus remedies posted by others help. 

Echostar, is giving me great incentive to move my $$$ each month to DirecTV for 2005. Their performance with each software upgrade is great incentive to just drop them and move to a proven PVR and HDTV service. February is the deadline for them to get their act together. I'll be telling them this when I see them at CES. What a shame they have been so incompetant when just a few years ago they were the leader in HDTV when they showed up D* with being first with DD5.1 and ShowtimeHD and then DiscoverHDTheater. Those were the grand old days when Charlie cared.
And BTW- Thanks for pulling the value plug on the 921 making it a worthless stock. Even at the $475 price it is a worthless investment today.


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## ckendall

L211HEED-N - Purchased 12/13/04


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## phonebill

First noticed the problem this morning while watching last night's Leno show. Rebooted, and it went away.




L211HECD-N
150B 
F053
Purchased 7/04
1080i output


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## bbomar

I only saw the problem the day L211 downloaded. Right after
rebooting with L211, and after scanning OTA digitals, setting
preferences, etc., I had the jitter problem appear on satellite
channel TVLand. I changed channels and still had the problem.
The picture was so jittery that to me it was not watchable.
I remember thinking that if everyone had this problem Dish would
be going back to the previous software very quickly. Fortunately
for me, a power cord reboot solved the problem and, knock on wood,
it has not returned. I can imagine that for those with the problem
consistently, the 921 would be useless.

Receiver purchased and picked up from Dish warehouse in Atlanta in
early October.

Boot: 140B
Flash: F052
L211HECD-N


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## tnsprin

I only see it briefly (about 2 seconds) when switching to a new station via dvi-d on my second 921 (heed) and then the picture stabilizes. See it only with non 1080i (480i or 720p) broadcast. The TV is a TOSHIBA 42hdx82. Installed this 921 in November.


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## Cyclone

I saw this today for the first time. I bought my 921 on Dec 7th 2004.

It has:

Boot : 150B, Flash: F053, SW: L211HEED-N

I was watching a previously recorded HD Movie when I noticed the stutter. I then switched to live SD and HD channels and the stutter persisted. I the performed a Hard Reboot. Its been ok since, and I'm watching that orig movie now without stutters.


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## oxy8384

HECD-N purchased Jan '04
F051
120B

The one I really noticed recently: Rose Parade on Discovery HD (satellite). I was watching it live AND recording it at the same time. Had jittery video when doing trick play on the live broadcast. So hit STOP to go 'catch up' to live view and all was OK. Went back later to check problem periods on recording and it was all there, jitter-free.

output set to 1080i
component video
Mitsu 55" projection


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## aginzu

I purchased a 921 in early December. I now have the 211 software and get the jittery video occasionally. Sometimes I can reset the receiver and it goes away. Other times it doesn't. My sw/hw version number is L211HEED-N.

Allen


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## TVBob

Purchased January, 2004. Had not seen the problem at all except once right after L211 was installed. Then suddenly it came on big time last night and I couldn't get rid of it.

A couple of power plug reboots (waited about 60 seconds) did _not_ cure it for me.

Finally (thanks to this thread), I pressed the Format button a few times, slowly cycling through all the formats (waited until gray bars appeared). That fixed it. Every "jittery recording" now plays fine, so the problem is definitely on the playback side, that is, everything seems to be recorded to disk just fine. I still see some jitter when stepping frame by frame (unrelated problem?), but not during normal playback of SD or HD material.

I tried to reproduce the jitter problem by switching back to 480p mode and zooming, which seemed to cause the problem. But I just couldn't make it jitter again.

If any of you come up with a step-by-step foolproof method of causing the jittery playback to _START_, I think that would really help the engineers reproduce this problem, and then they'll be able to fix it.


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## completelymobile

Had the jitters last night (Thurs. 1-6-2005). Had to pull smart card and reboot to get rid of it. First time it has happened since the install 3 weeks ago. My SW version is:

L211HEED-N - purchased December 04

Other than that I have experienced various minor problems but none that have caused me to question my purchase ... I love the 921 HD performance. I had a 721 for the past 2 years and the transition to the 921 was excellent and very easy. The 921 seems to have roughly the same amount of bugs that my 721 had when I first activated it and as time went on the 721 seemed to become very stable. I think the same will be true of the 921.


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## tbeuthin

L211HEED-N - purchased December 2004
Can be seen at times on both SD and HD channels in motion areas
very noticable in news crawlers when it occurs
Sometimes it goes away by itself
Reboot usually cures it for awhile


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## DonLandis

Had quite a chat with an E* engineer today about the jitter bug. We talked about the current theories that created this bug in L211. 

There is one curiosity that came up where I pointed out that I seemed to have this with half the drive full of "archived" content. The engineerring teem noticed the same thing.

If you all could post this please note your hard drive content on the program that you observed jitters such as:

Jitters observed on a program that was recorded where the drive had 10 hours remaining

or on program where the drive had 22 hours remaining.

I really should post a poll on this so please look for it in the other forum where pools appear for bugs.


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## pdlittle

DonLandis said:


> Had quite a chat with an E* engineer today about the jitter bug. We talked about the current theories that created this bug in L211.
> 
> There is one curiosity that came up where I pointed out that I seemed to have this with half the drive full of "archived" content. The engineerring teem noticed the same thing.


I have seen the jitter on live SD and HD broadcasts (swapping between the stations) with the HDNet test patterns being the only recorded information on the drive. If I remember correctly that test is about 10 minutes long.


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## TowJumper

Hardware version: HECD-N

Purchased October 2004.


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## JM Anthony

HEDC Purchased May 04

This is the first time I've seen this. Hard drive capacity (in HD) is about 6 hrs. I experienced the distortion while watching a SD program while I was recording another in OTA HD.


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## oljim

Don only have about 10% of drive used, have seen this 4 or 5 times. Format button has fixed every time. 
HEED-N
11/04


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## Mark Lamutt

I have a question for you all, based on what I saw yesterday.

I spent most of the day yesterday testing this. When I was watching a SD satellite recording, I was able to make my picture jittery for a second or two whenever I used the skip forward or skip back functions. After that second or two, the picture stabilized and returned to normal. This was only with 1080i output - 480i, 480p and 720p output were all smooth. And, the video jitter was in the vertical direction.

I then watched a recording I made from HDNet Movies last week, and immediately noticed a jitter in the horizontal direction with this recording, all the way though the recording. 

Are you guys seeing jitter in both directions, or primarily in one direction or the other?


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## guruka

Primarily horizontal jitter and so far only on SD material here. Easy to see on camera pans or where the camera is following a moving character and the background literally jumps instead of scrolling smoothly. This is fairly pervasive on recorded SD material. Cycling through the formats or a reboot makes it go away. . . for a while, and then it returns. It's always on recorded material for me, but I see from other posts that some folks see it on "live" material too. I put live in quotes because it's all coming off the hard disc anyway, que no?

.....G


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## DonLandis

Mark- Yes on H and V jitter. 

MOre importantly, the jitter is an intermittant thing, not always present. Certain conditions exacerbate the jitter such as the camera pans. 

G-
Live/ recorded, you are basically right, I think but to be sure, just pause for a second and then you know your "live" is really the hard drive buffer. Based on what I learned Friday, the issue is considered a bug in the hard drive recording portion of the software. 
I put the poll up because I observed that the drive, when having more than 15 hours available records and plays back programs without jitter. As the drive gets filled the jitter shows more frequently. E* rep claims the jitter is more severe in vertical credits roll but I don't necessarily agree with that. "Serious" or "severe" is a relative term because to my way of thinking, "severe" is an annoyance factor and jitter in the middle of the program annoys me more and is therefore more severe. I'm sure if they find the fix, it won't matter if it's vertical or horizontal, one fix will probably do it all. After all, it worked fine before they monkeyed around with it.


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## TVBob

Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you guys seeing jitter in both directions, or primarily in one direction or the other?


 Both directions.

There's a different kind of jitter (more like a shake) only observable at 1080i on my direct view. It happens whenever I press Skip Back on recorded material.

The video freezes momentarily while synching with the audio. Shake is visible during this brief freeze time. When I use 720p or 480p, I don't see it at all. And I don't see it in any mode when I press Pause, just Skip Back.

It's much less noticeable than the jitter problem, which someone accurately described as "20 frame-per-second mode" instead of 30 fps. Scrolling vertical credits or quick horizontal movement make the problem quite apparent.


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## TVBob

DonLandis said:


> Based on what I learned Friday, the issue is considered a bug in the hard drive recording portion of the software.


I'm not sure what you learned Friday, but I don't see how this can be the case. The MPEG files recorded to disk seem to be just fine.

Sometimes when you play back a recording, it starts to jitter. Cycle through all the zoom modes with the FORMAT key while it's playing, and it doesn't jitter any more, proving that the original recording to disk is clean.

There could be performance problems _reading_ files from one part of the hard disk while simultaneously writing a file to another part of the disk, but wouldn't that manifest itself as other, more obvious problems like pixelization or audio skips? We're only seeing jitter (or more accurately, frame synchronization issues).

This jitter problem seems like it has more to do with the DVR-921's video synch outputs or de-interlacer, since cycling through video modes affects these components, but doesn't affect much at the hard disk. Finally, we know that frame-by-frame stepping causes occasional single-frame unsteadiness, another problem that "feels" more like a frame synch issue. I think they're all related, and I don't see how the hard disk could be the cause of either issue.


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## Jeffrey

Also looks to me like the horizontal jitter problem has to do with a video sych timing issue or maybe related to the de-interlacer. Hard drive space doesn't seem to matter. Dish has already swapped out the DP44, splitter, Dual LNB and even the 921, to no avail. 

Also, it seems stressing the system causes the horizontal jitters to appear more quickly after a reboot, as if unterminated processes are tying up too many CPU cycles or memory. I got it every day on both 921s, and it seems to happen most quickly after a reboot if I viewed HD and used the DVR buttons or if both tuners were engaged or recording two programs at once. 

L211HEED-N
Boot 120B; Flash F051; DP44 switch
Two DVR921s


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## SteveRS

TVBob said:


> Purchased January, 2004. Had not seen the problem at all except once right after L211 was installed. Then suddenly it came on big time last night and I couldn't get rid of it.
> 
> A couple of power plug reboots (waited about 60 seconds) did _not_ cure it for me.
> 
> Finally (thanks to this thread), I pressed the Format button a few times, slowly cycling through all the formats (waited until gray bars appeared). That fixed it. Every "jittery recording" now plays fine, so the problem is definitely on the playback side, that is, everything seems to be recorded to disk just fine.[/QUOTE=TVBob]
> 
> Very interesting. I just had the horizontal jerky/jittery motion video for the third time this week!
> I tried the format button on four different Dish remotes with no response.
> The sd/hd button also failed to operate.
> However guide,channel,menus etc. buttons all worked.
> 
> Once I completed the reboot to remove the jerky motion, the format and sd/hd buttons were operable again.
> 
> The 921 is one freaky machine.
> L211HECD-N
> Exchanged by Echostar for a defective 921 with the component input vertical bar issue on 4-1-04


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## DonLandis

TVBob- One of the tests I ran was as follows-

Watch a program live as well as record the same program. 

The live program was fine and jitter free.
Play back recording and intermittantly the video began to jitter on pans in the scene. Consistently the live viewed programs seemed to be fine. Recordings of the same were jittery.
I repeated the test using a trick play, ie, pause a live program and then watch the program about 30 seconds delayed. Same result, jittery on the pans. Switched back to live play and the video was once again fine.

I'm not sure what the rebooting and switching modes has to do with it but what I tested, results, coincides with what the E* engineering team have also observed and apparently know what is causing it. They consider this a bad bug that was generated in the L211 code change on the way their signal was recorded to the hard drive and are making an emergency beta release for testers to work on. It was supposed to be loaded to the beta team last Wednesday but I understand it was delayed. Mark, of course is under NDA but by the fact he is asking some questions about it here and is trying to reproduce it tells me he now has the newest beta for testing. What I was told was they are doing an emergency fix to this bug as they understand it has essentially rendered their 921 a non working PVR. I told the E* rep I met with that due to this bug, I have now stopped using the 921 entirely since the jitter is too annoying. And, TV Bob, He did go into details as to what was changed that caused this jitter bug but I really am not knowledgeable enough to try to repeat it with any degree of accuracy. I should have had a hard drive engineer sitting with me for that part of the discussion. Anyway, I was happy to know that they know of the issue have identified it, and, are in the process of testing so it won't be long before I can use the 921 for time shifting once again.


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## TVBob

DonLandis said:


> I'm not sure what the rebooting and switching modes has to do with it but what I tested, results, coincides with what the E* engineering team have also observed and apparently know what is causing it.


The scenarios you describe (watching delayed video and recording at the same time) could force a lot of arm movement in the disk. It should work fine, but if disk I/O has slowed down because of an L211 software change (change in cache size, or I/O block size perhaps, or setting both tuners to the same channel when only one is needed), that could mess up video timings and cause the jitter to start when the disk gets too busy. There could be multiple failure modes at work here that cause the jitter to start.

Once jitter starts, it's not intermittent; it's there for good until you do something. But it _is_ intermittently _noticeable_ since you only see it when fast motion is present.

Don, if you press the Format button as described above whenever you notice the jitter, doesn't the jitter immediately go away?

This easy workaround fixes it for me every time, making this bug much easier to live with.

I do hope they fix the jitter problem ASAP, but I think the Zero Second Recordings (ZSR) problem, which has no easy workaround, is the real show-stopper (forgive me), and it should be fixed first, given a choice.

Too bad none of us (except maybe Mark), have figured out how to consistently replicate the ZSR problem. That would help Eldon more than anything right now, right?


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## DonLandis

Bob-
_"Don, if you press the Format button as described above whenever you notice the jitter, doesn't the jitter immediately go away?"_

My format button is failed permanently, even after a power cord reboot. After L211 loaded, I was stuck in permanent stretch mode but the display said normal. I pulled the plug for 5 minutes, no change. I pulled the plug for 5 hours and the mode was back to "Normal" but I couldn't change it with the format button. The 921 was rebooted several times again to no avail to temporary fix the format button. I didn't discuss the 0 second recordings with dish engineer rep. 
Considering the jitter quality, I don't waste my time using the 921 anymore for actual entertainment use. Since L211 hit, I have only used the 921 for testing 921 bugs and I really don't want to spend time testing when the little time I have had due to job work load I want to spend watching a service that works. VOOM and DirecTV have become my main sources of programming and this jitter bug, as well as their increasing prices is doing a great job of getting me used to not having DishNetwork in my programming sources. Should make my shut down of AEP next month an easy transition.

I agree with your assessment of hard drive arm swings. Their explanation had something to do with how they changed the mapping of the hard drive in L211. But, it may result in the end effect you describbed. The zero second recordings always seemed to be a function of the PSIP table conflict from PSIP PID errors from a TV station. Since all my stations have now corrected their PSIP table entries, I stopped getting zero sec record errors. Recordings are done right, except for the jitter issues. I never got zero second recordings on any of the sat channels. The 921 issues with OTA locals are numerous due to the convoluted way Eldon did the software, especially since L186 changes. Even Dish people admit, now, that the way it was done was a mistake. I know some more about this but can't discuss here in the open forum. Basically, until they change the way they are implementing their local channels OTA the 921 will continue to have tremendous problems.

Anyway, while I was away for CES, the 921 recorded 6 hours of timer weekly event programming. The recordings are fine except for the jitters. AS I stated above, no zero second recordings since our stations got their PSIP entries corrected. WE had 3 of our 7 channels with PSIP errors. 2 were corrected last August and 1, just this January right after Newyears weekend. I worked closely with the CE's of those stations to get the table entries corrected. You should know that having PSIP errors is the rule rather than the exception. It is not easy to set up properly. Table conflicts that cause some receivers, like the 921, to do screwey things are quite common. WE even had one station with errors that caused the audio to remap to a different channel than than the video for awhile.


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## echo*wb*tho

hey i work for dish network in atr if keeps doing after front panel reset just unplug the rcvr for about 15 min after that if still keeps happing just wait we are going to release the new software for it and more features in the as well spice it up a little bit



MVL999 said:


> L211HECD-N
> PURCHASED 12/04
> resetting it by holding the power button stops it for awhile.


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## TVBob

DonLandis said:


> My format button is failed permanently, even after a power cord reboot. After L211 loaded, I was stuck in permanent stretch mode but the display said normal.


That happened to me for the _first_ time last night, shortly after I hit the timer popup bug I just wrote up here. Almost everything else worked, but not the Zoom button. I finally cured it with a front panel power button reboot (for new members, that means you hold down the power button for about 15 seconds and the DVR-921 will reboot). Everything was normal after that.



> The zero second recordings always seemed to be a function of the PSIP table conflict from PSIP PID errors from a TV station.
> ...
> I never got zero second recordings on any of the sat channels.


My last ZSR was on sat. Ch. 9584, KCBS-HD. I think I have also seen ZSRs on other, non-HD sat. channels, but I can't remember for sure.

But you've provided an important clue. I'm still wondering if the OTA tuner isn't being quiesced properly, so even when it has nothing to do, PSIP events on the OTA tuner (based on last-tuned channel) can still cause interrupts that affect the work of the satellite tuners.

In my case, the last ZSR (on a sat. channel) occurred precisely at 8 p.m. PT, which is _exactly_ the same time that Bay Area PBS station KQED-DT Digital Channel 30 switches from five SD subchannels (PSIP 9.1-9.5), down to two (9.1 HD and 9.2 SD), which they do every night.

Maybe I can do some experiments to try to force ZSRs to occur at 8 p.m. every night. I should really copy this info. to the ZSR discussion. 


> I know some more about this but can't discuss here in the open forum. Basically, until they change the way they are implementing their local channels OTA the 921 will continue to have tremendous problems.


Well, based on what you know, but can't tell us, can you or Dish provide a workaround that will help us avoid problems in the mean time?

"An ounce of workaround is worth a pound of code." 

Maybe if we all set up auto-tune events to switch the OTA tuner to the most "stable" OTA channel five minutes before any important recordings, that will help us avoid ZSRs.


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## DonLandis

_"Well, based on what you know, but can't tell us, can you or Dish provide a workaround that will help us avoid problems in the mean time?"_

No, unfortunately. Here's a hint why-
Other receivers that have no problems with OTA station's PSIP data errors simply ignore the data altogether and rely on a service, via zip code to determine all local info coordination. There may be inaccuracies but never a case that causes the audio to disappear or the remap channel to disappear etc. The problem is that the stations are in a steep learning curve and there are errors throughout the industry. When they all get their act together, 921's all over will work better. As for the guide data, that will continue to be an issue with DVR's that will rely on PSIP due to the way the FCC structured the regulation. For DVR's the best way, unfortunately, will be that of the service, like all, including E*/921 is currently using. IMO, the only answer is allow the stations to go through the learning curve and then go with the current plan. in other words, time will fix this aspect of our complaint. With E*, the problem is very complicated as was explained to me at CES. Too complicated to get into in this thread and it doesn't matter because no discussion will improve the current situation with the 921 code and the OTA guide implementation. It is a real quagmire of policy, marketing, and technology screwups, IMO.


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## Mark Lamutt

To see a little insight into the quagmire of an explanation that Don got at CES, take a look at the P284 technical discussion thread that's stickied at the top of the 811 support forum. There's a lot of information in that post that Dish sent us that applies to the 921 as well, and goes into great detail about why the OTA issues are plaguing the 811 and 921 the way that they are.


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## Cyclone

My Jitters returned today. Funny thing was that if I switched to a 720p channel it didn't jitter. But if I tuned to a 1080i or 480i channel the jitter was present. Reboot fixed it.


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## BlueVideo

L211HECD-N

Bought my 921 last week, received it Wednesday, hooked it up this morning. Got the jitters quite bad watching my first recording with it, of the night's new Simpsons episode. It looked to me like a field rendering problem -- identical to what happens when I import Upper-Field-First rendered footage into a Lower-Field-First project in Final Cut Pro.

That recording is the only place I've noticed it thus far, but I'm glad to see it isn't just a problem with my particular box. Using composite output since my Dish HDTV set isn't arriving till next week.


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## boylehome

After observing the jitter problem for some time now, I have noticed that the jitters usually are worst after the 921 has completed the auto reboot. Format cycling always removes the jitters. Doing a hard reboot doesn't seem to have any affect on jitters. Rarely my 921's get severe jitters. This is a sign that the 921 is going to crash because shortly thereafter, remote control functions cease working, such as the format button the channel changing slows until nothing functions until a hard reboot. Just another observation, but since L2.11, my DVI quality is not as good as my Component.


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## lujan

Last night, I paused "Listen UP" on the CBS DT local OTA station for about 10-12 minutes. When I came back and hit play, the Jittery problem was back pretty bad. I continued to watch this CBS DT OTA station being broadcast in HD for the next 1 1/2 hours through "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "Two and a Half Men" and the jittery problem continued through all three programs. The only trick play I did during the programs was the "Pause" button on the remote. There was no recordings being made and only one timer recording set for Wednesday (two days later). I use the HD (blue light) only, 720p, 16x9 aspect ratio with a DVI connection to a WD62525 Mitsubishi DLP TV. I also tried to change the Format of the picture using the "Format" button on the remote, but nothing would change after several attempts to change the format. Maybe if the show is being broadcast in HD, you can't change the format?


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## coop1

So far I can always eliminate the "jitters" by simply switching the output from 720P to 1080I or vice-versa.

However if I hit the power button while the jitters are occuring it usually crashes my 921.


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## markcollins

mark-IS IT JUST ME OR IS THIS FORUM GETTING AWAY FROM WHAT IT WAS A YEAR AGO.Where are your posts about software bugs and potential fixes and future releases.It does seem the 921 is dead.I am afraid what we got is going to be it.There are alot of problems just to mention the aspect ratio,still to be fixed?????Stretch is still over done.How 'bout it are the eng. still working on these things?


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## DVDDAD

I have noticed it since L211, mainly on recorded SD programs. Audio dropouts & Freezes present on HD recorded programs. I don't watch much live TV, so I couldn't tell you if it's present there too.


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## SteveB

I have had the jitter problem about 4 times. When I first downloaded L211 and every other week. On both SD and HD including OTA. Fixed by a hard reboot. 

My stats:
Purchase: 8/10/2004
Card Version: DNASP103 Rev 300
Boot Version: 120B
Flash Version: F052
SW Version: L211HECD-N
Location ID: E1E67C36

Display: DVI 720P to a wonderful Samsung HLP5663W 56" DLP Rear Projection TV


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## Tomos

I'm unsure if what I see is "jittery video" but I know what it looks like. Seems when I am watching SD channels many times it will get real pixelated if thats a word. Fire seems to really be hard on it and also sports fast action makes it look bad for a moment as well.


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## UT_Texan

Just had my first occurrence of the jitter issue. Was watching recorded 24 episode last night. Although it wasn't that severe it was like the camera was shaking during the shooting. It wasn't for the entire show but would start and stop for a few seconds off and on.
Got mine Dec 21st 2004


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## SteveRS

markcollins said:


> mark-IS IT JUST ME OR IS THIS FORUM GETTING AWAY FROM WHAT IT WAS A YEAR AGO.Where are your posts about software bugs and potential fixes and future releases.It does seem the 921 is dead.I am afraid what we got is going to be it.There are alot of problems just to mention the aspect ratio,still to be fixed?????Stretch is still over done.How 'bout it are the eng. still working on these things?


I no longer see any use in posting about the endless ongoing problems of the 921.
Eldon and Echostar deserve each other with their incompetence in the electronic field.
I will no longer buy any product with the Dish or Echostar label. Junk, pure trash


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## Mike D-CO5

Charlie should buy Tivo and use their software. If he did this he would have rock solid software that works properly. But he would have to pay their software engineers their due and he is not going to do this . He would rather use the subscribers as beta testers/ guinnea pigs. He gets all his feed back from us on these and other web boards for free. In fact he would most likely turn Tivo software into some hybrid with dish's , making it useless. 

If he would do the right thing and Pay for the software he could actually surpase Directv in dvrs. There are a lot of people who are loyal to TIVO who would flock to Dish to get tivo dvrs. The upside we would get a hd dvr that works.


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## KKlare

Ha, I was going to suggest this name but I see DonLandis has been using it.

I do get rid of it with the format key. When that fails to function, I have to wait for my recording to end and reboot.

Yes TVBob, I agree, the ZSRs are a much bigger problem. But again, I lost recordings without even a ZSR when they were simultaneous starts, by accident.


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## Bone74

hecd 


purchased in dec


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## Rodsman

Well,

I took the 921 plunge this week, and it was delivered and set up yesterday. Upon recording an SD show I immediately noticed this jitter problem. I don't see it with anything live, SD or HD, and do not see it with HD recorded meaterial.

My info. is *L211HEED-N*.

When I called Dish I was told there was no record of such a problem and was told to power down, uplug unit for 15' and then power back up. I recorded something new, SD, and still saw the jitter. $549 for this? My 508 never had this issue.

Would getting a new unit fix this or is this just a software issue related to the upgrade I've been reading about?

Thanks


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## slimoli

Jitters almost every day. With or without recording something. It goes away when I press the format key.

BOOT 150B
FLASH F054
SW L211 HEED


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## pdbuzz

L211HEED-N

Purchased direct from Dish Network, Jan 2005

Jittery on all HD channels, but it didn't happen on the Dish HD channels until AFTER I hooked up my OTA antenna.


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## fjerina

L211HECD-N

Purchased December 2003.


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## madbrain

Receiver info is in signature .
I purchased it december 2004. Didn't get around to setting it up until jan 2005 due to a vacation.

When my 921 got the jitters, it was on everything - SD, HD, SAT, OTA, live, or pre-recorded programs .

The format key was inneffective - due to the other bug where all SD is stretched and the format key no longer works - which happened at the same time as the jitters.

Reboot was the only fix .


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