# Will DirecTV sell me another ICK?



## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

Had new HD install with WHDVR and system connected to internet via ICK this past weekend. Works great.

I'd like to add an "unsupported" ethernet switch in the family room so I can plug in my Wii and Blu Ray player and piggyback DECA cloud. To do this I know I'll need a powered DECA (can't share with DVR as it is a HR24 and doesn't use a DECA) to connect to the switch.

Will DirecTV sell me + ship another ICK for $25? 

I saw a DECA w/PI on ebay for $39.99 (free shipping) ...

Just looking for least expensive way to get powered DECA...

thx for any suggestions...


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

grecorj said:


> Had new HD install with WHDVR and system connected to internet via ICK this past weekend. Works great.
> 
> I'd like to add an "unsupported" ethernet switch in the family room so I can plug in my Wii and Blu Ray player and piggyback DECA cloud. To do this I know I'll need a powered DECA (can't share with DVR as it is a HR24 and doesn't use a DECA) to connect to the switch.
> 
> ...


Well you shouldn't need the internet connection kit, you would just need a regular deca. (one IKC gives the entire cloud access to the network) I don't know if you could add a deca behind a HR24 You could picking up a regular deca, add it behind the HR24 and plug the little ethernet cord into your switch and make sure not to plug the ethernet into the HR24. (you would then have 2 decas enabled)

Like I said I'm not sure if you can add another DECA behind a deca since the HR24 has one built in. If it doesn't work, you could get a green 2 way splitter and plug the extra deca into the splitter assuming you don't have too many splitters already.

Also if adding another deca behind the HR24 did conflict with the internal deca of the HR24, you could also try just putting an external deca behind the hr24, then put the ethernet into a switch and then connect one of the ports of the switch to the HR24 and the other ports to your other stuff. Then your only using 1 deca which might actually work better.

Any of the above configurations won't be supported by DTV of course, but as long as you use a good switch I don't see why you would have any problems. If I were you, I would prob just go with the last option so your only using 1 deca and won't have to split anything. Make sure to reboot the HR24 once you get it hooked up so it switches the internal deca off. No need for another ICK though if you already have one.

Let us know how it works


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

grecorj said:


> I'd like to add an "unsupported" ethernet switch in the family room so I can plug in my Wii and Blu Ray player and piggyback DECA cloud. To do this I know I'll need a powered DECA (can't share with DVR as it is a HR24 and doesn't use a DECA) to connect to the switch.
> ...


If you introduce something else into the DECA cloud, you are riskng having very poor Whole Home DVR results. If your Blu Ray player is downloading BD Live content into the cloud while someone else is using the WHDVR feature, you run the risk of bandwidth limitations and having poor WHDVR playback.

I sugget keeping your Blue Ray and Wii out of the cloud and networking them back to the original router directly. If wired is not possible, try a LinkSys WGA600n to get your devices wireless back to the router, outside of the cloud.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

NR4P said:


> If you introduce something else into the DECA cloud, you are riskng having very poor Whole Home DVR results. If your Blu Ray player is downloading BD Live content into the cloud while someone else is using the WHDVR feature, you run the risk of bandwidth limitations and having poor WHDVR playback.
> 
> I sugget keeping your Blue Ray and Wii out of the cloud and networking them back to the original router directly. If wired is not possible, try a LinkSys WGA600n to get your devices wireless back to the router, outside of the cloud.


I agree if he can keep other items off the cloud it would be better but BD live and wii don't really use up that much bandwidth at least from what I know about them. I have only used BD live a few times but it's not even that great in my opinion.

Also his extra components will be limited by how fast his connection is which there should be plenty of bandwidth left over for MRV even if you have your BD Live downloading a hd movie trailer.

I think if he uses a good switch I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I think all wireless adapters blow personally, you can configure them to work ok but overall nothing beats a wired connection .


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

grecorj said:


> Had new HD install with WHDVR and system connected to internet via ICK this past weekend. Works great.
> 
> I'd like to add an "unsupported" ethernet switch in the family room so I can plug in my Wii and Blu Ray player and piggyback DECA cloud. To do this I know I'll need a powered DECA (can't share with DVR as it is a HR24 and doesn't use a DECA) to connect to the switch.
> 
> ...


Do you have another Coax cable or network cable in the Family room?

I'd really recommend against doing what you are saying. The results may not be good. Adding a switch off a DECA (which is really meant as a single client connection) may give some really bad results related to how the DECA cloud interfaces with that switch and the traffic associated with it (DHCP, broadcasts, traffic load, etc).

Whether they will sell you one or not, you'd have to call and ask. If I had another RG6 cable or Cat5 cable that was unused - I'd be looking at that versus trying to do what you say. The Wii has built in Wireless, and your blu-ray player may also... thats another option.

The $25 is the least expensive, but you may not like the results. But its up to you if you want to try... I don't think anyone here can say yes or no to the question - just make the call if that's what you want to do.


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

maybe i'm confusing things...

isn't an ICK just a DECA w/ a PI?

understood in terms of network performance ...

yes, my Wii has wireless, but signal in that part of house is just ok. blu ray player does not have wireless built it (would have to buy adapter).

my thought on the switch is that any internet device would be constrained by my DSL connection ... not planning on using it to stream content from my mac or anything like that...

if anyone else has experience adding a switch to a deca set-up, would love to hear it!


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

grecorj said:


> maybe i'm confusing things...
> 
> isn't an ICK just a DECA w/ a PI?
> 
> ...


It isn't that simple.

DECA is NOT Ethernet over Coax. Its a different physical network layer. So, when you add a switch/non-MRV device to the DECA cloud - you are interrupting/changing/constraining the MRV traffic.

Since the switch will have devices that need to get DHCP addresses, resolve DNS names, download content, play games, and get software updates from the Internet - and all those things are on the other side of the DECA cloud - there COULD be impact if someone is streaming MRV at that same time. Guaranteed to be a problem? No, absolutely not. But something to be aware of. Adding a blu-ray player and a Wii to the DECA cloud WILL impact traffic flow on your currently isolated DECA MRV.

Feel free to give it a try...  If you tend to be like my family - you'll be absolutely fine. But we also don't mix media - someone isn't streaming MRV while someone else is watching a Blu-Ray or playing the Wii. We tend to all be doing the same thing because my kids are too young.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

grecorj said:


> maybe i'm confusing things...
> 
> isn't an ICK just a DECA w/ a PI?
> 
> ...


I've got switches in the DECA system and have no problems. The tech that installed my DECA system argued with me about using a switch between the router and the bridge that he had to install and he finally did it and was amazed that it worked. Then I showed him the other one that was part of the system that he installed. Just used logic. I have no problems with the DECA system and I have twelve HRs on it plus a BD player and three Roku boxes. Everything works just as I thought it would.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

grecorj said:


> maybe i'm confusing things...
> 
> isn't an ICK just a DECA w/ a PI?
> 
> ...


If you belong to the Protection Plan, you can get any DECA equipment just by calling them and explaining what you are doing. They sent me a dongle just the other day at no cost. If you don't have the PP...well, this is just another reason to belong to it.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> I don't know if you could add a deca behind a HR24.


There are two problems with this idea:


Adding a DECA to the input of any 24 will block the DECA signal from the internal DECA.
The 24s don't power the DECA when one is attached.


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

rich584 said:


> If you belong to the Protection Plan, you can get any DECA equipment just by calling them and explaining what you are doing. They sent me a dongle just the other day at no cost. If you don't have the PP...well, this is just another reason to belong to it.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the tip, Rich...

Will I need a PI with the DECA for the switch? I'm still confused about that, sorry.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

grecorj said:


> Thanks for the tip, Rich...
> 
> Will I need a PI with the DECA for the switch? I'm still confused about that, sorry.


Any DECA that doesn't connect to a receiver [where it get its power] needs a PI.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

rich584 said:


> I've got switches in the DECA system and have no problems. The tech that installed my DECA system argued with me about using a switch between the router and the bridge that he had to install and he finally did it and was amazed that it worked. Then I showed him the other one that was part of the system that he installed. Just used logic. *I have no problems with the DECA system and I have twelve HRs on it plus a BD player and three Roku boxes. Everything works just as I thought it would.*
> 
> Rich


This is what intrigues me. I mean I know its the putative dogma to keep all other traffic out of the DECA cloud except MRV and DirecTV will not recommend or support it of course. But I really can't believe that DirecTV as member of the MoCA alliance did not design DECA to the same specifications as the 1 GHz range MoCA 1.1 standard with the exception of the non-standard (to MoCA 1.0 and 1.1 anyhow) operating frequency range of 475-625 MHz.

So if FiOS and others nowadays can put practically everything on their MoCA clouds without issues, then I don't see why DirecTV's DECA cloud should not have the same capabilities.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> This is what intrigues me. I mean I know its the putative dogma to keep all other traffic out of the DECA cloud except MRV and DirecTV will not recommend or support it of course. But I really can't believe that DirecTV as member of the MoCA alliance did not design DECA to the same specifications as the 1 GHz range MoCA 1.1 standard with the exception of the non-standard (to MoCA 1.0 and 1.1 anyhow) operating frequency range of 475-625 MHz.
> 
> So if FiOS and others nowadays can put practically everything on their MoCA clouds without issues, then I don't see why DirecTV's DECA cloud should not have the same capabilities.


Its not that it can't. It is MOCA in a different frequency. But remember that MOCA is not as good of a general networking platform as Ethernet. Its really optimized and designed for video.

In general (and I'm stating in general, so no one get all uptight about your specific use  )
General Network, Data Flow: Ethernet > MOCA/DECA
Video Streaming: MOCA/DECA > Ethernet
Mix of both: Ethernet > MOCA/DECA


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

BudShark said:


> Its not that it can't. It is MOCA in a different frequency. But remember that MOCA is not as good of a general networking platform as Ethernet. Its really optimized and designed for video.
> 
> In general (and I'm stating in general, so no one get all uptight about your specific use  )
> General Network, Data Flow: Ethernet > MOCA/DECA
> ...


Oh yes I know thats the way it should be in theory at least, MoCA being optimized for video/audio streaming that is. But to take FiOS for instance where all their newer installs place almost everything (with the possible exception of maybe a separate cat 3 run to the ONT for POTS or something) from video/audio to computer data on the coax MoCA cloud. They should be experiencing networking problems because of this approach, but they are not to my knowledge.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Oh yes I know thats the way it should be in theory at least, MoCA being optimized for video/audio streaming that is. But to take FiOS for instance where all their newer installs place almost everything (with the possible exception of maybe a separate cat 3 run to the ONT for POTS or something) from video/audio to computer data on the coax MoCA cloud. They should be experiencing networking problems because of this approach, but they are not to my knowledge.



Are you suggesting their installers are any better trained? :lol:
Let FiOS do the debugging of this and then DirecTV may come on board.


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

Just called DirecTV...they are sending me another ICK for no charge. Told them I wanted to hook up another computer in another room so needed a powered DECA unit to conect it. Normally $25, but came up as $0, free 3 day shipping. Can't beat that.

Thanks all.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Are you suggesting their installers are any better trained? :lol:


Well I actually think most of the installers of both services blindly carry out the installation policies of their departments, and don't give much to any thought about the real necessity or wisdom of them either way. 

But the higher-ups who actually make these policies have different philosophies. The question is does DirecTV's policy of keeping the DECA and ethernet home network clouds strictly separate really necessary?



> [*]Let FiOS do the debugging of this and then DirecTV may come on board.
> [/LIST]


No I really think DirecTV will stick to it's policy of separating the clouds regardless of what FiOS or any others do or how successful they are at using it, but that still does not make their policy the correct or not overly cautious one.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> This is what intrigues me. I mean I know its the putative dogma to keep all other traffic out of the DECA cloud except MRV and DirecTV will not recommend or support it of course. But I really can't believe that DirecTV as member of the MoCA alliance did not design DECA to the same specifications as the 1 GHz range MoCA 1.1 standard with the exception of the non-standard (to MoCA 1.0 and 1.1 anyhow) operating frequency range of 475-625 MHz.
> 
> So if FiOS and others nowadays can put practically everything on their MoCA clouds without issues, then I don't see why DirecTV's DECA cloud should not have the same capabilities.


The tech that installed the DECA system in my house was taught to keep everything off the DECA system, but he changed his mind about that after we were done. What they teach and what's real world are two different things. Apparently.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> What they teach and what's real world are two different things. Apparently.
> 
> Rich


!rolling
Like this is some new concept for you. :lol:


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

Can't wait to get the DECA + PI now.

System will be as follows once I get it:

SWM dish ---> 1x8 Zimwell splitter in basement w/SWM PI
...Coax 1 --> Bedroom (HR24)
...Coax 2 --> Office --> 1x2 splitter (H24 + Broadband DECA connected to DSL router)
...Coax 3 --> Family room (HR24)
...Coax 4 --> Family room (DECA w/PI --> 5 port Netgear switch; Port 1-->Wii; Port 2-->Sony Blu-Ray player
...Coax 5 --> SWM PI
...Coax 6-8 ... terminated at splitter

May also add Apple Airport Express to the switch in the family room to extend the wireless network in the house.

I'm only using 5 of 8 tuners right now, so later I can run lines to two rooms for 1 DVR + 1 non-dvr in the future. That's the plan once the new HD DTiVo is available (*fingers crossed*).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

grecorj said:


> That's the plan once the new HD DTiVo is available (*fingers crossed*).


Gotta figure that *Stuart Sweet* is getting his fourth quarter TiVo thread ready about now. 

Beginning to wonder if we'll ever see the thing.

Rich


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Oh yes I know thats the way it should be in theory at least, MoCA being optimized for video/audio streaming that is. But to take FiOS for instance where all their newer installs place almost everything (with the possible exception of maybe a separate cat 3 run to the ONT for POTS or something) from video/audio to computer data on the coax MoCA cloud. They should be experiencing networking problems because of this approach, but they are not to my knowledge.


Yeah... well... :sure:

I wouldn't do it... I'd venture a guess one day someone is going to not be too happy with a general purpose MOCA network and HD content bouncing around it while someone is trying to download a movie while the kid is playing Xbox... 

It sounds like a good proposition for the OP though. It sounds like he knows what he's getting into and isn't really building a network on DECA - just providing access for his blu-ray and Wii that won't generally be used at the same time as MRV... he'll be fine.


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## Yog-Sothoth (Apr 8, 2006)

To the OP, I have a DECA connected directly to a Slingbox, and the Slingbox is connected to an H24-700 receiver. I often stream _recorded_ shows, meaning they obviously reside on my DVRs and not the H24, with the Slingbox. In effect, I have simultaneous MRV and Slingbox traffic passing through DECA at the same time, with no performance hit. Also, as I compose this post, my laptop is connected to a wireless access point that is connected to my network using... wait for it... DECA.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The DECA cloud [on the coax] has a bit-rate of 200-250 Mb/s normally.
The DECA ethernet input is 100 Mb/s.
MRV streaming without trickplay can be around 14 Mb/s or less.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

grecorj said:


> Can't wait to get the DECA + PI now.
> 
> System will be as follows once I get it:
> 
> ...


I don't see why it wouldn't work - not to mention worse case if you do have any issues you can just remove the switch. It's not gonna hurt to try, there should be plenty of bandwidth to go around.


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> To the OP, I have a DECA connected directly to a Slingbox, and the Slingbox is connected to an H24-700 receiver. I often stream _recorded_ shows, meaning they obviously reside on my DVRs and not the H24, with the Slingbox. In effect, I have simultaneous MRV and Slingbox traffic passing through DECA at the same time, with no performance hit. Also, as I compose this post, my laptop is connected to a wireless access point that is connected to my network using... wait for it... DECA.


Good to hear, thanks!



Sim-X said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't work - not to mention worse case if you do have any issues you can just remove the switch. It's not gonna hurt to try, there should be plenty of bandwidth to go around.


Agreed...easy enough to remove it. And isn't going to cost me any $, which is nice.

Of course, I just noticed on my DTV email order confirm it just says "1 receiver DECA". The CSR assured me he included a PI (he understood I was hooking up another PC to the DECA and needed a powered DECA), but who knows. Worst case I call them up again and get the PI shipped separately.


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

DECA & PI installed, connected to 5 port network switch; Blu Ray player plugged in and connecting to internet just great -- watched a bunch of HD trailers via Flixster last night!

Will have to test streaming something like Netflix via the Blu Ray player while streaming a show from HR-24 to H-24.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

grecorj said:


> Will have to test streaming something like Netflix via the Blu Ray player while streaming a show from HR-24 to H-24.


That's going to be your big test to see how the DECA cloud holds up.

- Merg


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## grecorj (Jan 20, 2008)

Last night I tested my setup a little (see previous posts for details of what I did).

I was using my Sony Blu Ray player to stream Netflix while at the same time watching an HD show that was streaming from our bedroom (remote) HR24 to the family rooom HR24 (where the Blu Ray is).

I streamed the beginning of Notting Hill (HD) on Netflix first while streaming a Food Network show (in HD) from the remote HR24. Both played flawlessly. Then I switched Netflix titles to a SD movie (Lonesome Dove, Episode 1). Watched about 15 minutes of the Netflix title, all the while swithing back to the DVR streaming the Food Network show and using Trick Play. Perfect.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> The DECA cloud [on the coax] has a bit-rate of 200-250 Mb/s normally.
> The DECA ethernet input is 100 Mb/s.
> *MRV streaming without trickplay can be around 14 Mb/s or less.*


May we gather from your numbers here VOS which I boldfaced that this nominal 14 Mb/s is for streaming MPEG-4 HD programs and may thereby extrapolate that MPEG-2 OTA HD recordings are roughly 28-30 Mb/s? 

And what might be your view be of MPEG-2 SD rates?

I also wonder, just for the record anyhow, what might be typical for the rare cases of streaming MPEG-4 SD recordings?

Boy ... I know what a PITA I can be with some of these technical inquiries


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> May we gather from your numbers here VOS which I boldfaced that this nominal 14 Mb/s is for streaming MPEG-4 HD programs and may thereby extrapolate that MPEG-2 OTA HD recordings are roughly 28-30 Mb/s?
> 
> And what might be your view be of MPEG-2 SD rates?
> 
> ...


It's been a while, but SD was closer to 3 Mb/s, HD MPEG-2 depended somewhat on the channels [as some were more compressed] and OTA will never be over 19.2 Mb/s. [without trickplay]
There is no SD MPEG-4 yet.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> ... OTA will never be over 19.2 Mb/s. [without trickplay] ...


Ahhh ... got brain lock I guess and should have realized OTA recordings obviously can't be over 19.39 Mb/s :sure:



> ... There is no SD MPEG-4 yet.


Do you mean you are not aware of the data rates available on streaming SD MPEG-4 programs? As there are certainly a few SD MPEG-4 (Ka-Band) channels, National and LiL, from DirecTV.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Do you mean you are not aware of the data rates available on streaming SD MPEG-4 programs? *As there are certainly a few SD MPEG-4 (Ka-Band) channels, National and LiL, from DirecTV.*


 Aren't these merely the HD locals "clipped" to SD output?
Since DirecTV simply reads the file on the drive, these would be HD MPEG-4.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Aren't these merely the HD locals "clipped" to SD output?
> Since DirecTV simply reads the file on the drive, these would be HD MPEG-4.


No, for example there are actually Ka-Band MPEG-4 SD National channels like "Free Speech TV" (FSTV) ch. 348, and "Golden Eagle Broadcasting" (GEB) ch. 363. And I have a local DTV sub-channel here in L.A. KLCS 58-2 that is also an SD MPEG-4 channel on Ka-band.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> No, for example there are actually Ka-Band MPEG-4 SD National channels like "Free Speech TV" (FSTV) ch. 348, and "Golden Eagle Broadcasting" (GEB) ch. 363. And I have a local DTV sub-channel here in L.A. KLCS 58-2 that is also an SD MPEG-4 channel on Ka-band.


Well I'll have to leave those channels to you to figure out their bit-rates then. None of my local subs are over the SAT and the two you listed aren't anything I'd record or watch.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Well I'll have to leave those channels to you to figure out their bit-rates then. None of my local subs are over the SAT and the two you listed aren't anything I'd record or watch.


OK;

Just thought it might be interesting to know considering that it is not the popularity of the two channels GEB and FSTV that are so much significant as it is they are the newest SD channel additions and may mark a new direction DirecTV is going now for any new SD channels since SD 101 is full (except for add/drops).

Therefore any further SD channels to the lineup must go MPEG-4 on Ka-band as well.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> OK;
> 
> Just thought it might be interesting to know considering that it is not the popularity of the two channels GEB and FSTV that are so much significant as it is they are the newest SD channel additions and may mark a new direction DirecTV is going now for any new SD channels since SD 101 is full (except for add/drops).
> 
> Therefore any further SD channels to the lineup must go MPEG-4 on Ka-band as well.


You can monitor your network connection while using DirecTV2PC to playback a recording from one of those channels and get an idea, but clearly it should be less than 3 Mb/s.


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