# Local channels in HD - Washington, DC



## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

Keep in mind, I dont know much about this stuff, but I hate having to go to a friends house to watch the Redskins in HD.

I've searched and searched, and dont speak the language, so can someone tell me what I need to get the local channels in HD here in the DC suburbs... (VA side). 

Until Dish gets their act together, I assume I need some sort of antennea?

Any definitive word on when Dish will provide this service? 

Thanks!


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## dsanbo (Nov 25, 2005)

Cabby.....
You'll need an off-air antenna to get HD locals in D.C. IF you're with E*...
Now, if you had/have D* (DirecTV) they've just "lit up" the HD locals with MPEG-4 compression....and are available using the new H20 receiver and 5LNB (AT9) dish.
There's no definitive word on when E* is going to put HD-LILs on their system...My guess is, we'll hear soon after the CES in Las Vegas later this week....Kepp your fingers crossed...


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

Cabby said:


> I've searched and searched, and dont speak the language, so can someone tell me what I need to get the local channels in HD here in the DC suburbs... (VA side).
> 
> Thanks!


Go to www.antennaweb.org type in your address, it will tell you what general type of antenna that you will need to receive HD over the air.

Generally, indoor antennas are a poor choice, but depending on your location, an antenna in the attic is sometimes an option.

If you are willing to post your street address, someone may be willing to offer additional advice.


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

I went there, but have no idea what I'm looking at, tons of them come up. My zipcode is 20132.

I have Dish and a 921

Thanks for the help!


EDIT:
And what antenna do I need??? Model # that works. Radio Shack has about 300 antennas on the website to choose from


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The antenna depends on what you want to receive. On the chart for your zipcode there are two stations available on a blue antenna and the rest would require a purple antenna. (Not the actual color of the antenna, but a color code for the strength.) I don't see any digital stations on the list for 20132.

Click on the Antenna Info link on the top of the page at antennaweb to find out what the colors mean. Violet antennas are large directional antennas with amplifiers.

When you go to Radio Shack look for the largest antenna they have. IIRC they have the color code listed on their antennas. But before you pay a lot note again that there are no digital stations on your antennaweb listing. You may be too far away to get any digital channels even with the best antenna.

JL


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

Cabby said:


> I went there, but have no idea what I'm looking at, tons of them come up. My zipcode is 20132.
> 
> And what antenna do I need??? Model # that works. Radio Shack has about 300 antennas on the website to choose from


I'd try a Channel Master 4228 with a preamp.

Here's two commonly used suppliers;

www.starkelectronic.com www.warrenelectronics.com


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## mth (Dec 14, 2005)

There are a buttload of digital stations in DC, which I presume are broadcasting the skinnies in HD. 

I don't know why they don't come up with your zip code. If you put in a zip code from a surrounding area, like 20852 (Rockville), it lists a ton of digital stations from DC. 

Perhaps that web site know that there are obstructions between the towers, and where you live, but I can't imagine it would be so bad that you wouldn't get them at all.


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## Weezknight (Jan 3, 2006)

On that note. With the 811 do I need any special type of antenna. I've noticed for my area all the digital stations are in Yellow (a good sign I'm guessing?). I have an indoor antenna that I used to get all the regular stations in very well before I got the 811. Can I still use this, or do I need a specific HD antenna?


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## mth (Dec 14, 2005)

You don't need a HD antenna. I read somewhere that's just a marketing gimmick. It's still a UHF signal, just carries more information. I bet that same antenna will get you the stations in HD. 

I don't know the 811, but on the 411, there are 2 coax-inputs on the back. One is for the dish, one for an antenna. From the "info" menu on the dish, I go to "Local Set Up" and have it "Scan Locals". It should find them for you and enter them into your guide. They'll have names like 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 11-1, 11-2, etc. 

I created a "favorites" list that just lets me scan through the locals. 

Also, if you get 2 feeds from one station, they both broadcast digital, but only one will be broadcasting in HD. For example, when I get Monday Night Football, 2-1 is SD. And 2-2 is the same thing in HD. 

At TitanTV.com they list all the local broadcasts, and you can tell which "sub station" meaning which -X is the HD one.


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## Weezknight (Jan 3, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Yes the 811 has an input for an antenna. Wow, I'll have to try that when I get home. Unfortunately that's gonna make the workday go that much slower.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

20132 is Purcellville, VA.

Good luck. I expect sometime this year E* will offer DC DMA LiL and you may well fall into the eligible area.


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## Weezknight (Jan 3, 2006)

Well, following the advice on here I was able to hook up the good ole' cheapy antenna and, sure enough I've got all of the local DTV channels through my 811. 

I'm about 20 miles outside of Philadelphia and sit up on a hill. With the little indoor antenna I average between 81% up to 92% depending on the channel. Thanks for the help everyone! The little things you told me that the installer never did, allowed for me to watch PSU-FSU in HD last night!


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## mth (Dec 14, 2005)

Weezknight said:


> Well, following the advice on here I was able to hook up the good ole' cheapy antenna and, sure enough I've got all of the local DTV channels through my 811.
> 
> I'm about 20 miles outside of Philadelphia and sit up on a hill. With the little indoor antenna I average between 81% up to 92% depending on the channel. Thanks for the help everyone! The little things you told me that the installer never did, allowed for me to watch PSU-FSU in HD last night!


Way to go. I was hoping that worked for you. It doesn't seem to be common knowledge out there that a regular old TV antenna is the way to get local HDs.

81-92 is great. I never have problems until it dips below 70-75 or so.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Cabby - think BIG OUTSIDE on the roof antenna for your location. You might also need a preamp. If you can get the regular NTSC stations from DC, then I think your chances are pretty good.

You may also consider putting your OTA antenna system on a rotator - this will allow you to easily change direction of your antenna .


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## belcherwm (Dec 18, 2005)

Cabby,

Jump over AVSForum and check out the Washington DC/Baltimore Local HD thread at this link:

http : // w w w.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=517400 (take the spaces out, I don't have enough posts)

You may need some height for good, reliable reception, but a medium size antenna without a preamp works great for me in Haymarket. I get all the DC/Balt channels except WDCA20 which is very low power.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Caddy, it's really easy in the DC area. Call Fairfax Antenna. When I had them do my antenna over the summer, they had started doing HD antenna installs for a set price of like $298 with antenna, which is a nice channel master UHF unit. 

You likely will want a booster, and Radio Shack has a nice 15db booster which is what I'm using and that makes all the difference for reception (I'm in Dale City, so 33 miles or so South of DC, and figure another 10 miles from the actual antennas which are mostly in MD)

Another thing with Fairfax Antenna, their techs come with a signal meter, and are able to go around your roof to find the spot which has the most signal strength for the most stations. This is important, as some spots might get one station real well while not getting others. There was only 1 good spot on my roof, and I sure as heck wouldn't have found it thru trial and error had I tried to do it myself. 

I'm pretty sure you will find those guys professional and good. oh, and to get the signal to your tv, they can even piggyback it on one of the dish cables and pull it back off inside  I doubt you'll find an easier way of getting the antenna and installation, but expect them to have a week backlog. and call them as early as you can, say 8-815 am, as I recall the techs head out to their jobs around 830 and you'll probably have to talk to one to get things scheduled.


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> Caddy, it's really easy in the DC area. Call Fairfax Antenna. When I had them do my antenna over the summer, they had started doing HD antenna installs for a set price of like $298 with antenna, which is a nice channel master UHF unit.
> 
> You likely will want a booster, and Radio Shack has a nice 15db booster which is what I'm using and that makes all the difference for reception (I'm in Dale City, so 33 miles or so South of DC, and figure another 10 miles from the actual antennas which are mostly in MD)
> 
> ...


That's great information, I've heard mixed reviews from that company though. From reading a billion posts here and that other forum satguys, I think I need a CM 4228 and pre-amp. Even if I could get the wife to agree, I would have no clue how to mount and/or wire it. I guess that's what I'm paying $300 bucks for?


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## dvwannab (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm in Springfield and have the CM 4228 on my deck (no roof activity for this puppy) and I get great reception except when it rains. Here is my average signal strenth from my deck:

ABC: 85%
CBS: 100%
Fox: 100%
NBC: flaky channel pickup. When I get it its great ~ 90%
PBS 26 (WETA): 95%

The general location for me to access the HD channels is clustered in 40-degree bearing.


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## AcuraCL (Dec 12, 2005)

Cabby said:


> That's great information, I've heard mixed reviews from that company though. From reading a billion posts here and that other forum satguys, I think I need a CM 4228 and pre-amp. Even if I could get the wife to agree, I would have no clue how to mount and/or wire it. I guess that's what I'm paying $300 bucks for?


Cabby, a 4228 is for deep-fringe reception. If you're IN D.C., that's like swatting a gnat with a Howitzer. You might overpower the receiver. Try something small and returnable, like a Silver Sensor from a local electronics store.


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## dvwannab (Dec 16, 2005)

Acura that might be true, but it depends on where you live. There is a lot in the DC metro area to cause interference. I started out with a DB4 antenna (mid range), which antennaweb recommended based on my location to the broadcast towers. Well the performace was spotty and inconsistent at best. I tried a Silver Sensor which only picked up NBC and it was marginal. I then tried the CM 4228 and the difference is remarkable and keep in mind I am only about 10-12 miles away. If you live on hill with a clear as day path is one thing, but the the DC metro area has its peaks, valleys, tall buildings, trees, the airport, electronic forces, etc., to keep reception very interesting. To combat all that, you have to go strong.

PS. I dont use a separate pre-amp.

PPS. 20132 (Purcelville) I believe is even further away than I am. I would say 4228 or even something stronger.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

His zip code, 20132, is Purcellville, VA. He needs the 4228 or a similar distants antenna.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Cabby said:


> That's great information, I've heard mixed reviews from that company though. From reading a billion posts here and that other forum satguys, I think I need a CM 4228 and pre-amp. Even if I could get the wife to agree, I would have no clue how to mount and/or wire it. I guess that's what I'm paying $300 bucks for?


yeah, keep in mind, they are providing a proper antenna for where you are, a long distance UHF model, wiring, installation, mounting, as well as using that meter device to find a spot where you'll actually get reception  From my experience, I never would have found the spot on my roof. My Antenna is almost in the middle of my roof, and I'd have been mounting it with a pole bolted to the side of the roof. When the tech checked those areas, my reception would have been poor at best overall.

And being in Purceville, you're probably like me, gonna need all the help you can get pulling in signals, unless Winchester has stations doing HD, which would surprise me. it took me almost a year to break down and call FA. I'd bought an indoor UHF antenna from Radio Shack, and dealt with constantly moving the antenna, drop outs, etc. This summer I figured was the right time, and all I can say is, I was a fool to have waited to long 

Oh, and the first time your wife watches her favorite show in HD, she won't care you spent $300


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> Oh, and the first time your wife watches her favorite show in HD, she won't care you spent $300


I showed her a pic of the antenna, and she was like "Hell No"

The $$ doesnt matter at all. She doesn't want something that looks like "football stadium lighting" on our roof. And honestly, I agree, its hideous.


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## C*Tedesco (Jan 31, 2004)

I would have hoped Dish would have responded to Direct TV's adding of local HD, but as of now nothing. I am most likely going to be switching to Direct if I don't hear anything by next week. Just makes sense.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Do you think the announcement of 48 potential markets covering 50% of the population with locals in HD isn't a response?

JL


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

They cant give a solid timeframe and it will be HD Lite anyway. OTA is the way to go. I am calling Fairfax Antenna.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes, OTA is (usually) best. But don't assume that HD locals will be HD-lite, or that even if they are, that will still be the situation a year from now. Congress is considering legislation requiring satcos & cablecos to pass on broadcast signals at the same quality level that is delivered to them.


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

navychop said:


> Yes, OTA is (usually) best. But don't assume that HD locals will be HD-lite, or that even if they are, that will still be the situation a year from now. Congress is considering legislation requiring satcos & cablecos to pass on broadcast signals at the same quality level that is delivered to them.


They've already announced that when they deliver the locals it will be HD-lite. In fact, all MPEG-4 will be in HD-lite format.

So, in a year from now? I mean come on... I rather spend $300 for someone to put an antenna on my roof and have true HD locals for free, then sped $699 on a new receiver, $99 to put another useless Dish on my roof, just to get 4 local HD channels, MAYBE, in a couple of months.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

I would say that while that big square UHF antenna looks bad just sitting there, as long as the spot is on the back side of your roof, it's almost inpossible to see. My home is a split foyer, so 2 stories with ground floor half buried. Antenna is on the roof, near middle, maybe 5' from the peak. But the mount has it maybe 1 foot off the roof, so from the road, less than half of it is viewable, and it's like chicken wire, very hard to see at 100' since it's so thin. 

it'd only be fugly if it were on the front of the roof in my best estimation. if it can be put on the back half, it won't affect astectics 

oh and GO SKINS!!!!!!!! need some O next week, but keep on rollin'!!


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Don't get me wrong- I have an antenna on my roof. I'm a BIG believer in OTA, and had a minor little fight with my HOA over it. For those that can get a signal, it's the best way to go, IMHO.

I can't get too upset over HD-lite. Most HDTVs in homes today cannot display the full 1920x1080. If it's a trade off to have more channels today, at somewhat lower PQ, when most of us cannot take advantage of full PQ, then fine. So long as the future brings full PQ as more HDTVs can display full PQ.

People will complain either way- they had to make a choice. And for the great unwashed, more channels means more. Later, hopefully higher PQ will mean more. All business decisions can be and will be revisited. At least E* seems interested in full resolution. I get the feeling that D* views HD-Lite as permanent. But even they may come around. But probably no time soon.


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## Virus (Sep 22, 2005)

Cabby, OTA isn't all roses. I live just down the road from you and when the weather is slightly bad, I have problems with reception of 4 and 9. Fairfax Antenna came out to check for the best location of the antenna, but told me that I already had it set as good as it gets. Luckily I mentioned to him that I was an AVSforum member and found their listing from the forum. He said, "since your an avsforum member, I won't charge you anything for todays service" Normally they charge a service fee just to come out.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

yeah, purcelville worries me, that is a long way out. I'd get two or three signal boosters out there haha


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

Had the OTA put on the house today..... glorious news! Works like a champ, I get at least 100 on every channel, some are 125. Washington, Baltimore, Annapolis, I get them all, I wish I did this sooner!!!


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

You must worship the right gods.

What model antenna did they put up, if you don't mind my asking. And did you get a rotor/which one? Because if you can get Baltimore and Annapolis from Purcellville, if I upgraded from my current antenna, I should get them and more in Burke.

Are you getting both analog and digital stations; both VHF & UHF?

Thank you for reporting back. I'm glad this has worked out so well for you.


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

navychop said:


> You must worship the right gods.
> 
> What model antenna did they put up, if you don't mind my asking. And did you get a rotor/which one? Because if you can get Baltimore and Annapolis from Purcellville, if I upgraded from my current antenna, I should get them and more in Burke.
> 
> ...


Channel Master 4221 I think? No rotation, I have clear line of sight, no trees, nothing, works like a champ.

Call Fairfax Antennea, they read avsforum and are into the scene. They know what they're doing. Tell them you saw them on avsforum.com and they will give you 5% discount.

I only scanned for digital, I believe it found about 35 of them or so. All I really care about is my locals in HD, but I'll take some bonus channels too


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## belcherwm (Dec 18, 2005)

Congrats! Fairfax Antenna did my installation a little over four years ago.

Navychop,

I get similar reception out in Haymarket with a roof mount Uhf/Vhf antenna. I have a rotator, but once I found the sweet spot I haven't had to adjust it in months.


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## mth (Dec 14, 2005)

I have two questions for you guys. 

How long are your cable runs? 

Do you combine the ANT/SAT and then split them again or just run two separate RG-6 lines to the receiver? 

I get anywhere from 75-85 on most of the networks, and can't get PBS out of Annapolis (runs a lot of nice HD stuff). 

The thing is, I live about 1 mile from TV Hill. I can see the antennas from my rooftop. Turns out I get better reception from rabbit ears on top of the TV, and the rabbit ears get PBS. 

So, it might be my cable runs. It might be an old antenna. It might be combining/splitting. The rooftop is a spindly UHF multi-directional, but it doesn't get anything except TV Hill. My installer said he thought that it might be that TV hill is overpowering the PBS signal. 

He also said that if I rotated the UHF antenna, I might get ghosting, but I didn't think that happened with digital.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

mth, call fairfax antenna, it may be that where the antenna is currently is getting some interference from the house itself ot such. 

my set up is using the combiner to drop the OTA onto one of the sat cables into my house. 

CAbby, you BASTARD!! you are getting Baltimore and Annapolis as well!!!????????? I HATE YOU!! hahahaha I have trouble just getting WB 50 haha. Though maybe that will be fixed by years end after the CW network starts up, I would think CW would upgrade the signal since they won't be paying for 2 signals as they do now


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## Cabby (Jan 2, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> mth, call fairfax antenna, it may be that where the antenna is currently is getting some interference from the house itself ot such.
> 
> my set up is using the combiner to drop the OTA onto one of the sat cables into my house.
> 
> CAbby, you BASTARD!! you are getting Baltimore and Annapolis as well!!!????????? I HATE YOU!! hahahaha I have trouble just getting WB 50 haha. Though maybe that will be fixed by years end after the CW network starts up, I would think CW would upgrade the signal since they won't be paying for 2 signals as they do now


Clean line of sight and a big ugly antennea on the peak of my roof, and voila! :hurah:


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

The 4221 is a UHF antenna. I'd need a VHF/UHF/FM antenna. Some of the larger Channel Master antennas spec out well- but the best one is 15 feet long! She Who Must Be Obeyed will not like that.

I guess I'll stick with my StealthTenna and do without MPT.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

navy, why would you need a VHF? it's not like you "have" to receive VHF stations since Dish carries them all. And FM shouldn't be had to get as some type of add-on should it? Even it you just have an FM antenna put up there and have it's signal added to the OTA cable's signal. 

And besides 4,5,7,9, what else is there in VHF range? Everything else is UHF. And you don't need to get 4,5,7, and 9 if you have HD since those come in on their UHF channels


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## belcherwm (Dec 18, 2005)

I have a RS VU-210XR still in the box in my attic. I bought it when RS was clearing them out for less than $5.00. Never put it up becase the RS 120 always got me what I needed.

By the way the, 210 is 17.5 feet long. Hee, hee.


The reason for an antenna that gets VHF is that some of the current digital broadcasts will be reassigned to VHF in the not to distant future. I'll find the specifics and post them.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

HD will not always be on UHF. I believe 1 or 2 DTV stations in this area have announced a return to the VHF band after the transition.

The FM band falls between TV channels 6 & 7. Yes, a separate FM antenna would work.

"Dish carries all of them"- Err, not applicable. I use OTA for max quality. I don't subscribe to Dish locals.

Sometimes I can pick up channels 2, 11 & 13 out of Baltimore, but this isn't real important to me.

- - - - - -

The sound you hear is me, tap dancing. :stickman:

OK, time to 'fess up. Although the first sentence above is valid, there is another main reason to keep local VHF reception:

_*My in-laws.*_ They visit from out of town and immediately turn on the TV to watch the local stations. Out of town, but they want the local news. They absolutely refuse to learn to operate my home theater system. :bang

That means no DISH unless I set it up for them. And no Dolby from local DTV stations, or even DVD or videotape viewing, unless I set it up for them. And yes, my HDTV can work with both digital and analog OTA with the home theater stuff all turned off. "But the analog stations change channels so much quicker." :bang

So, maybe you're right, and it's time to Be A Man and just cut them off. I wonder if I can set up my HDTV to not receive any analog stations...

17.5 feet long? Are you married? 

I wonder if anyone has any luck using a rotor with the Channel Master 4228?


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

i thought the FCC was selling off the VHF bad for police use and such?


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Rogueone said:


> i thought the FCC was selling off the VHF bad for police use and such?


Nope, they are selling off UHF (53-69).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

52+ actually.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

well that blows, I only put up a UHF antenna! DOH


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## belcherwm (Dec 18, 2005)

From the FCC:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-2649A2.pdf

WJLA - 7
WUSA - 9
WBAL - 11
WJZ - 13


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## frederickrabbit (Jan 30, 2006)

Ok. I have installed an antennae in the attic it works great but now I need to integrate into my previous satellite setup. I have tried several configurations and have failed. My setup is as follows. I have a dish dvr with 2-tuner capabilities. Tv2 is in the living room via existing cable network and received on channel 60. I only have one cable installed here. I ran a cable from the ant to the cable junction box. Now how do I connect it? There is a diplexer installed where tv1 passes on the sat to the bedroom (in/out). And tv2 is connected to the rf side. Is there a setup that I can do at the jbox that will allow me to send both signals to tv2 through one cable. Or if I have to I can move the dvr into the living room, but same question applies. How do I send the signal without running another cable into the house. The guys at radio shack have not been very helpful in supplying a solution. And I would hate to have to pay the $99.00 service fee to have a guy come out again!! I hope someone can help me and thanks for your time.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

When I installed my antenna, I went with a dual VHF/UHF antenna since a couple of the Harrisburg stations were on VHF.
Turns out a good thing, as WJLA & WUSA in Washington and WJZ & WBAL in Baltimore are going back to their VHF channel after the transistion.


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