# Serena Williams disgrace



## Chandu

I'm sure most of you have either watched LIVE or highlight video of the disgraceful ending of Serena Williams - Kim Clijsters semifinal last night. Utterly shameful behavior on part of Serena, which has left a blemish and brought disrepute to sport for all the wrong reasons. As far as everything I've checked in the news, she still hasn't had dignity to come out and apologize to fans, Kim Clijsters, tournament officials, the whole world for her behavior. If it was some other sport, it could've resulted in very heavy fines, maybe lengthy bans. They've fined her a measly $10,500. On top of that, they're going to let her take part in the doubles final with her sister instead. :nono2:

I wonder what the sponsors, advertisers have got to say about this disgrace. As it is, it has been a nightmare of US Open with the hurricane/tropical storm/rain deluge of 2-2.5 days. Last thing this tournament needed was something like this. :nono:


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## sigma1914

She seemed a lot tamer than Patrick McEnroe's tirades.


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## moghedien

sigma1914 said:


> She seemed a lot tamer than Patrick McEnroe's tirades.


You cannot be serious...


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## Chandu

moghedien said:


> You cannot be serious...


 

Yeah, considering I think he meant to say John McEnroe and not his tamer and less "accomplished" brother Patrick.

But a very clever and witty reply from you anyway. Well played!!! :biggthump


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## bidger

In the mid 70s I remember Jimmy Connors shouting a certain 10 letter expletive, starts with "c" and ends with"r" for the more curious among you, clear as bell over the TV broadcast of a major tennis event. My parents and I just looked at each other stunned. It ain't always the classy game they'd lead you to believe.


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## Chandu

bidger said:


> It ain't always the classy game they'd lead you to believe.


I know, but among all of Pete Sampras, Borg, Andre Agassi, Federer, even Nadal these have been very classy players from recent memory. Of course there have been many spoilt brats like Marat Safin around, but those are exceptions. Among the women, well .... I honestly don't follow women's tennis much personally, so don't know all happenings in it. (Except when some controversy like this springs up.) But I felt it was a bit classless for women's tennis in general.


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## Stewart Vernon

While not condoning her behavior, I'm actually kind of surprised at the reaction from Tennis fans and officials.

I agree she snapped in an over-the-top manner... and it doesn't make her look too good... but I've actually seen/heard worse.

I guess the major surprise-factor is that this is typically something we expect on the men's side... I can't recall a woman with the John McEnroe/Jimmy Connors kind of on-court behavior issues.


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## sigma1914

Chandu said:


> Yeah, considering I think he meant to say John McEnroe and not his tamer and less "accomplished" brother Patrick.
> 
> But a very clever and witty reply from you anyway. Well played!!! :biggthump


:lol: My bad...John McEnroe.


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## paja

Chandu said:


> I'm sure most of you have either watched LIVE or highlight video of the disgraceful ending of Serena Williams - Kim Clijsters semifinal last night. Utterly shameful behavior on part of Serena, which has left a blemish and brought disrepute to sport for all the wrong reasons. As far as everything I've checked in the news, she still hasn't had dignity to come out and apologize to fans, Kim Clijsters, tournament officials, the whole world for her behavior. If it was some other sport, it could've resulted in very heavy fines, maybe lengthy bans. They've fined her a measly $10,500. On top of that, they're going to let her take part in the doubles final with her sister instead. :nono2:
> 
> I wonder what the sponsors, advertisers have got to say about this disgrace. As it is, it has been a nightmare of US Open with the hurricane/tropical storm/rain deluge of 2-2.5 days. Last thing this tournament needed was something like this. :nono:


I would guess that sponsors/advertisers are more concerned that one or both of the Williams sisters ARE NOT in the finals seeing that the ratings seem to suck when they are not playing. No Williams sisters NO WATCH :eek2:


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## Chandu

paja said:


> I would guess that sponsors/advertisers are more concerned that one or both of the Williams sisters ARE NOT in the finals seeing that the ratings seem to suck when they are not playing. No Williams sisters NO WATCH :eek2:


Hmm, not too sure about that one. I think they've been hurt a lot more by the weather mess than presence of the 2 sisters. A dream Federer - Nadal final would've also pulled in good ratings, but now that too is out of question. Now, they're left with a weekday afternoon start for men's final (potentially 1 PM start on US West Coast on a Monday afternoon!!! :new_Eyecr) - the worst possible time for TV ratings.

Slightly off topic, but I'll just use this thread anyway:

It says it would cost $100 million to install a retractable roof over Arthur Ashe stadium. If considered, it would be kind of like what Centre Court in Wimbledon, London and Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne, Australia already got. Work is authorized to start construction for similar work at Roland Garros in Paris, and expected to finish around 2013. It will cost €120 million there. USTA say they don't have the kind of money like $100 million to burn on a roof in this economy. I wonder how much money has been lost by sponsors, advertisers, TV channels and of course in gate receipts due to lack of a roof. If one time capital cost could be amortized over number of years, maybe they could save more money by building a roof than without. Yes, I know it doesn't rain every year over US Open; but its schedule falls every year square in the middle of Carribean/Atlantic hurricane season. It's not my money burn, but somehow I feel they would be better served with a roof.


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## Lee L

Stewart Vernon said:


> While not condoning her behavior, I'm actually kind of surprised at the reaction from Tennis fans and officials.
> 
> I agree she snapped in an over-the-top manner... and it doesn't make her look too good... but I've actually seen/heard worse.
> 
> *I guess the major surprise-factor is that this is typically something we expect on the men's side... I can't recall a woman with the John McEnroe/Jimmy Connors kind of on-court behavior issues.*


Well, she can serve as fast as most men, I guess it is fair that she can argue calls like them too. 

I agree with your sentiment overall. I did not watch the match live but I have seen the clips and yes she was out of control, but it seems like a little over reaction on the officials part also. Though it is not like they took her out of a match that she was in control of. Sure she has faced down match point against her before, but it just did not seem like she was going to be able to do it this time.


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## durl

I've seen plenty of tennis players lose their temper over the years, but I can't recall a single instance of a player threaten physical violence to a judge. I've heard them question their sanity and their eyesight, but never threaten to do anything "to" them.


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## hdtvfan0001

I see a suspension (deserved) in her future.

Jimmy Conner used to be insultive to line judges, but this kind of behavior is just totally out of whack.


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## sigma1914

durl said:


> I've seen plenty of tennis players lose their temper over the years, but I can't recall a single instance of a player threaten physical violence to a judge. I've heard them question their sanity and their eyesight, but never threaten to do anything "to" them.


It's not like she was going to actually _force the ball down her throat_ in a literal sense. 
Serena went nuts, yes, and the line judge overreacted a tad. The line judge said Serena threatened her life.  I guess if Serena were to force the ball down her throat, she may die.

Here's some classic highlights of John McEnroe going nuts for everyone's viewing pleasure.


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## Stewart Vernon

As for the "threat" factor... I think there's some over-thinking going on there.

Routinely athletes say things like "I'm going to kill..." or "I got killed"... or whatever. Hyperbole overflows sometimes, and when someone is in an angry moment like that, I'm not sure you take the words said literally.


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## Fontano

If I recall the video footage correctly:

The line judge allowed Serena her tirade at first. 
Then it was over. It is when Serena went back a second time, that is when it crossed the line with the line judge.

And per the rules of tennis, you simply can't do that.
She allowed the initial emotional explosion, but when she when back again, that simply was too much. The line judge reported the confrontation to the head judge, and then they made the rulling.

And based on video and audio footage, she clearly threatened to stuff the ball down her throat, which would threaten her life. I have a big mouth, but if a tennis ball was stuffed down my troat, my life probably would be over.

Comparing it to what John did in his day, doesn't completely apply. As I am sure the rules have evolved a bit in the last what 20 years?

What makes the matter worse, is that she misrepresented the account when asked about later during the press conference, when at that point everyone (at least those watching on sportscenter) had seen the live audio/video of the interaction.

That is what compounds the issue. Anyone who has ever played sports, understands the emotions of the moment. They got the better of her, not once, but twice.

Add in the earlier violation in the first set, what else were the judges supposed to do?
Other sports, like baseball eject and fine players if they make any contact with an umpire. Even if it is the umpire that initiates it, (take the case of a player turning around after an argument and the umpire turns into him as well, they connect and the player is tossed).

The rules are the rules, she had her warning in the first set. No doubt, that this would have received a warning as well. But her warning was used up.


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## Fontano

Stewart Vernon said:


> As for the "threat" factor... I think there's some over-thinking going on there.
> 
> Routinely athletes say things like "I'm going to kill..." or "I got killed"... or whatever. Hyperbole overflows sometimes, and when someone is in an angry moment like that, I'm not sure you take the words said literally.


This wasn't in the context of pre-match hype, or anything like that were "I'm going to kill..." plays in the typical banter back and forth.

This was an emotional outburst by a person that by all apperances was bigger, stronger, and well capable of completing the pointed statement.

"I got killed" is typically usually a calm comment made by someone that just got their rears handed to them, rarely done with hatefull emotions and intent.

In this case, this isn't a written word or hearsay. 
In the video it is all there. The body language, the intensity in the tones, the look in the eyes, and so on.

I have no beef against Serena, her sister, or their accomplishments. But she blew a circuit on this one, and that of course comes with ramfications.


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## Gloria_Chavez

Classy players don't draw TV viewers. 70s and early 80s was the highwater mark for tennis on TV, thanks to Connors, McEnroe and other ad boys. This decade, thanks to the Williams sisters, CBS decided to broadcast the Women's Final Saturday night, primetime. Yesterday, two classy female player played the Women's final before a few thousand spectators, and cable TV. Had a Williams sister been in the final, I'd be willing to bet that CBS would have preempted programming to ensure it air on its broadcast network.


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## Fontano

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Had a Williams sister been in the final, I'd be willing to bet that CBS would have preempted programming to ensure it air on its broadcast network.


What time was the match?

If it would even remotely have clipped NFL programming in any part of the country, there would have been no preempting.


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## Gloria_Chavez

Match began at 9:15, Eastern Time. Was on ESPN2 and USOPEN.org.


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## Chandu

Gloria_Chavez said:


> This decade, thanks to the Williams sisters, CBS decided to broadcast the Women's Final Saturday night, primetime. Yesterday, two classy female player played the Women's final before a few thousand spectators, and cable TV. Had a Williams sister been in the final, I'd be willing to bet that CBS would have preempted programming to ensure it air on its broadcast network.


Women's final went to Sunday night due to weather delays. It wouldn't have mattered who was in the final. Based on how TV rights were bid and shared between ESPN/Disney family and CBS, there was no way a Sunday night final would've been shown on CBS. Legal agreements in the contract stipulated that the match be shown on ESPN family channel then.

Unless of course you're saying CBS would then step in (just based on Williams sister presence) and pay extra money to cover ESPN's contract fees; which I highly doubt. CBS already lost so much money due to rain downtime waste on Friday and Saturday. Their execs would be out of mind to shell out extra money at the last minute. Also the time for the match would be so difficult to advertise, given that the remaining time window was very narrow. It's plausible, but highly unlikely IMHO.


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## Stewart Vernon

Don't get me wrong... I'm with all the people today on the sports shows who agree that Serena was way out of line. She deserved the fine (probably deserved more of a fine than she got) and probably has earned a suspension as well.

I'm just not believing her "threat" should in any way be taken literally. When I hear the "but she threatened the life of the official" camp, I hope they are not being serious... because you just can't believe there was any serious threat there.

So, in summation... Serena=out of line; deserving punishment... but she didn't suddenly become a criminal who actually seriously was about to kill someone.


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## bigshew

Serena misheard the report of "threaten to kill". She admitted that in the press conferencee right after the match.


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## dpeters11

A $10,000 fine means nothing, she earned $300,000 for getting as far as she did in the tournament and for her career is I believe ranked #1 in prize money, over $25 million. If anyone seriously thought she was threatening the officials life, she'd have gotten a much worse penalty.


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## Fontano

Isn't that just the USOPEN fine? 
Not the fine from the governing body of tennis?


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## Stewart Vernon

Yeah, fines in general when athletes "go after" officials tend to be on the low side. Again, it's not a federal case...

... BUT, you do have to take a stand, and make sure the officials don't feel like they have to 2nd guess just to avoid being yelled at.

Officials should be scrutinized and graded to make sure they do their job their best... but the players also have to stay within their boundaries.


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## Gloria_Chavez

She lost her cool. So what. Tennis, both via TV ratings and participation, has been on the upswing since 2000, coincident with the Williams Sisters. While not near the level it enjoyed in the 70s and early 80s, I bet that any smart agent could argue that Serena and Venus have meant hundreds of millions of dollars to US Tennis, via TV ad revenue and equipment sales. The only time I won't watch the Williams sisters is when they play each other. Can't believe that they don't hold something back when they face each other.


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## Nick

Williams' "amended" press statement:


> Monday, September 14, 2009
> Press Statement Amendment
> 
> Hey guys!!!
> 
> I want to amend my press statement of yesterday, and want to make it clear as possible - I want to sincerely apologize FIRST to the lines woman, Kim Clijsters, the USTA, and tennis fans everywhere for my inappropriate outburst. I'm a woman of great pride, faith and integrity, and I admit when I'm wrong.
> 
> I need to make it clear to all young people that I handled myself inappropriately and it's not the way to act -- win or lose, good call or bad call in any sport, in any manner.
> 
> I like to lead by example. We all learn from experiences both good and bad. I will learn and grow from this, and be a better person as a result.
> 
> Xxxx,
> 
> S


http://www.serenawilliams.com/blog_message_detail.php?msg=125


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## phrelin

Hmmm. Well, I had to see exactly what people in the know had to say. From the Chicago Tribune:


> With Williams serving at 5-6, 15-30 in the second set, she faulted on her first serve. On the second serve, a line judge called a foot fault, making it a double-fault - a call rarely, if ever, seen at that stage of any match, let alone the semifinals of a Grand Slam tournament.


Gee I had to recheck her Wikipedia page:


> Serena Jameka Williams (born September 26, 1981) is an American professional tennis player. She has been ranked World No. 1 by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) on four separate occasions; as of July 27, 2009, she is ranked World No. 2. She is the reigning Australian Open and Wimbledon singles champion and has won 23 Grand Slam titles: 11 in singles, ten in women's doubles and two in mixed doubles. In addition, she has won two Olympic gold medals in women's doubles. She also has won more Grand Slam titles than any other active female player and has won more career prize money than any other female athlete in history. In 2005, Tennis Magazine ranked her as the 17th-best player in 40 years.


I see some financial numbers on the page. Forbes has her annual earning at $17 million among the top 100 World's Most Powerful Celebrities.

A tennis match is a hot and heavy encounter where we see benefits from weight training, etc. And in golf, some official isn't sitting there saying your ball isn't good because your foot was in the wrong place, meaning you just lost several million in potential endorsements. So it looks to me like the athlete/official relationship in this sport falls into the same category as pro basketball, football, and baseball more than pro golf.

In other words, how frequently does just in-your-face yelling at a ref for a bad call deserve more than a 15 yard penalty in football? I guess in baseball it does get managers thrown out. But she didn't hit a fan like in basketball. Oh, I get it, she's different. So she's a disgrace.

Or was it "a call rarely, if ever, seen at that stage of any match, let alone the semifinals of a Grand Slam tournament." And nobody raises an eyebrow why it would happen to Serena Williams.


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## Stewart Vernon

Phrelin makes a good point... I think the punishment should fit the "crime"... but I'd also be in favor of a little more leeway.

Sometimes in Tennis there are calls made by an official in no position to make the call. There have been technical improvements in recent years to help... and while I think Serena was on her way to losing anyway, being outplayed to that point, I'm not 100% sure she foot-faulted on that serve nor do I think it appropriate to lose a point on the argument with the official.

I agree with the fine and other potential punishments to go with her outburst... but I hate to see games turned on penalties like that... and even though it looked like she was going to lose anyway, the definitive win was taken away from the winner in this scenario, so the winner (although she did go on to win the whole thing) is also punished by not being allowed to earn the win proper.


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## Chandu

Some things never change! 

[YOUTUBEHD]D60oGon8q-0[/YOUTUBEHD]

How this woman proven a disgrace in the past hadn't been banned from the sport already, I'll never know.


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## Stewart Vernon

I don't see how this compares to the topic of this thread from 2 years ago.

First... lots of players argue calls. This isn't even in the league with what she did a couple of years ago.

Second... the fact that it has been 2 years kind of says that she hasn't been a repeat offender.


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## iceturkee

Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't see how this compares to the topic of this thread from 2 years ago.
> 
> First... lots of players argue calls. This isn't even in the league with what she did a couple of years ago.
> 
> Second... the fact that it has been 2 years kind of says that she hasn't been a repeat offender.


she also didn't play tennis for a year because of 2 foot surgeries and blood clots in her lungs.


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## djlong

Chandu: Go to an encyclopedia and look up Jimmy Connors and especially John MacEnroe. If they weren't banned....


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## la24philly

Serena did nothing wrong, she shouted as she hit the ball back to her oppenent. it was a bit louder but, everytime someone serves or hits the ball back you can here some noise from a player as they hit the ball, sometimes just as loud.

the only reason serena went off was because the umpire took her point away and gave it to the other person.

To say serena will be ban, tennis would be doing themselves more harm then good, if they want ratings and more revenue. 

A majority of US audience would not be watching Tennis yesterday if serena wasn't involved. Especially with it being the NFL opening week and 9/11


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## Nick

> ...10 letter expletive, starts with "c" and ends with"r"


:scratch:


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## texasmoose

Chandu said:


> I know, but among all of Pete Sampras, Borg, Andre Agassi, Federer, even *Nadal* these have been very classy players from recent memory.


Someone should tell Nadal to quick picking his ass during his matches. He would be a lot classier.


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## fluffybear

la24philly said:


> Serena did nothing wrong, she shouted as she hit the ball back to her oppenent. it was a bit louder but, everytime someone serves or hits the ball back you can here some noise from a player as they hit the ball, sometimes just as loud.


From the video I saw, it appears her yell came clearly after she hit the ball and not while hitting. Plus I do see a difference between a grunt and something verbal.


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## Earl Bonovich

fluffybear said:


> From the video I saw, it appears her yell came clearly after she hit the ball and not while hitting. Plus I do see a difference between a grunt and something verbal.


That is what I heard/saw as well... 
And that would be the issue with the topic... she yelled AFTER the hit already was complete, and the other player was about to strike.


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## DJ Rob

I haven't heard/seen what she did/said, but for me as a non-tennis watcher, I'd check it out now


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## Laxguy

la24philly said:


> Serena did nothing wrong, she shouted as she hit the ball back to her oppenent. it was a bit louder but, everytime someone serves or hits the ball back you can here some noise from a player as they hit the ball, sometimes just as loud.
> << Snipped bits out >>
> A majority of US audience would not be watching Tennis yesterday if serena wasn't involved. Especially with it being the NFL opening week and 9/11


Serena was wrong. Very wrong. She's had the estrogen to admit same: Good for her on that.

Some excellent players do not grunt, snort or shout when they pound the crap out of the ball, both men and women. I blame Bolitieri (sp) on general grounds.

I tend to avoid watching matches with either of the Williams women in them.


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## txtommy

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: My bad...John McEnroe.


And he just happened to be one of the commentators on the broadcast. Since he has done far worse ranting in his career there was little that he could say against Serena's actions. I may be wrong but, I don't recall him ever being put on probation or suspension for any of his much worse behavior. The entire episode is being blown way out of proportion.


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## Stewart Vernon

txtommy said:


> And he just happened to be one of the commentators on the broadcast. Since he has done far worse ranting in his career there was little that he could say against Serena's actions. I may be wrong but, I don't recall him ever being put on probation or suspension for any of his much worse behavior. The entire episode is being blown way out of proportion.


The original incident that prompted this thread 2 years ago... I thought she was over the top. It's like when someone cuts you off in traffic and you curse... but you don't chase down the guy, cut him off and get out of your car and go to his window and threaten to kill him. That's how Serena kind of snapped a little.

But the latest "incident"? I wouldn't even call an incident. Roddick was actually going off more at US Open officials about how stupid they were for playing games on wet surfaces...


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## Chandu

djlong said:


> Chandu: Go to an encyclopedia and look up Jimmy Connors and especially John MacEnroe. If they weren't banned....


Haha, no....don't need any encyclopedia to look up those 2 jerks. I used to watch most of their big matches live back during their prime. So I'm all familiar with those brats. And I completely agree with motivation behind your post. These Serena rantings are tempest in a teapot compared to those guys' behavior. But I don't completely agree with your conclusion. That was a bygone era, and it seemed the sport had cleaned itself up of such self-indulgent narcissists. By today's standards, Serena is resurrecting classlessness. Past wrongs don't necessarily right today's wrongs.


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## Chandu

Stewart Vernon said:


> But the latest "incident"? I wouldn't even call an incident.


Apparently there was a lot more to it in latest "incident" than the little youtube clip I posted. From what I read, she continued to berate the judge (calling her by "b****" word) throughout 2nd set. I didn't watch it live, nor am I going to waste time looking up video clips of all little nastiness - but something I read said she was classless to the ref after end of match during trophy presentation as well as press conference.


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## sigma1914

Should everyone kiss the butts of judges?  This arrogance in tennis that it's all prim and proper is why no one cares about it. Tennis needs some spice and edge like McEnroe, Agassi, Connors, Safin, Roddick & the Williams sister. Athletes yell at refs in every sport...big deal...high level competition is emotionally strenuous.


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## Chandu

sigma1914 said:


> Tennis needs some spice and edge like...Agassi...Roddick...




Agassi?!?!? The guy has been a perfect gentleman, an absolute role model for the sport. Can't think of a nicer guy, if I were to meet him in person. Are you referring to all his hairy persona during younger days? That was nothing. There hardly were any discipline issues even during his "rebel" years.

Also, Roddick?? What about him, when has he been a big narcissist jerk? I mean, he goes off on little incidents every now and then. But that's nothing. It's extremely mild.

BTW, I looked up more on end of match controversy and it wasn't during trophy presentation. At the end of the match, apparently Serena Williams only shook hands with the winner (Australian Stosur). She walked past umpire ignoring her and not shaking her hand.


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## sigma1914

Chandu said:


> Agassi?!?!? The guy has been a perfect gentleman, an absolute role model for the sport. Can't think of a nicer guy, if I were to meet him in person. Are you referring to all his hairy persona during younger days? That was nothing. There hardly were any discipline issues even during his "rebel" years.
> 
> Also, Roddick?? What about him, when has he been a big narcissist jerk? I mean, he goes off on little incidents every now and then. But that's nothing. It's extremely mild.
> 
> BTW, I looked up more on end of match controversy and it wasn't during trophy presentation. At the end of the match, apparently Serena Williams only shook hands with the winner (Australian Stosur). She walked past umpire ignoring her and not shaking her hand.


Agassi wasn't a verbally edgy guy, but at least he was something different from the Pete Sampras' of tennis. He was also was a meth user and blood doper.

Tennis purists can't stand to see a non submissive woman succeed on the court. Who cares if you shake hands with a judge? Watch any other sport and you'll see most officials dart off at the end.


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## Stewart Vernon

Chandu said:


> Apparently there was a lot more to it in latest "incident" than the little youtube clip I posted. From what I read, she continued to berate the judge (calling her by "b****" word) throughout 2nd set. I didn't watch it live, nor am I going to waste time looking up video clips of all little nastiness - but something I read said she was classless to the ref after end of match during trophy presentation as well as press conference.


While still maintaining this isn't the same as her tirade a couple of years ago...

I have to backpedal a bit... because this evening I saw an extended version of what happened on SportsCenter... and yeah, it wasn't as bad as 2 years ago... but it went on a lot longer than the clip you found and posted earlier... so I agree she overreacted more than I initially thought.

I also think (especially what she did a couple of years back) that the refs do need a little protection/insulation because any time you make a call one side likes it and the other side doesn't.

Another problem that comes up here, though, is... the call itself isn't one I think should be made. I'm not going to defend Serena, beyond saying I've seen much worse and much worse from her even... but I don't think it was a proper call that went against her... though, in the end it didn't affect the match as she was getting outplayed by her opponent and was fairly losing anyway.


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## Tom Robertson

Stewart Vernon said:


> While still maintaining this isn't the same as her tirade a couple of years ago...
> 
> I have to backpedal a bit... because this evening I saw an extended version of what happened on SportsCenter... and yeah, it wasn't as bad as 2 years ago... but it went on a lot longer than the clip you found and posted earlier... so I agree she overreacted more than I initially thought.
> 
> I also think (especially what she did a couple of years back) that the refs do need a little protection/insulation because any time you make a call one side likes it and the other side doesn't.
> 
> Another problem that comes up here, though, is... the call itself isn't one I think should be made. I'm not going to defend Serena, beyond saying I've seen much worse and much worse from her even... but I don't think it was a proper call that went against her... though, in the end it didn't affect the match as she was getting outplayed by her opponent and was fairly losing anyway.


Tennis has always (nearly always?) been a genteel sport. So the penalty is probably correct within the rules of the game; rules that Serena very well knows.

I can see where yelling just as your opponent is about to return is distracting. And changing that rule would definitely change the game. I suspect it would change the game in a way that the organizers would not want overall, so it probably is better the way it is.

Now if Serena had yelled more as she hit the ball, that should be less of a problem in my opinion.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stewart Vernon

Tom Robertson said:


> I can see where yelling just as your opponent is about to return is distracting. And changing that rule would definitely change the game. I suspect it would change the game in a way that the organizers would not want overall, so it probably is better the way it is.
> 
> Now if Serena had yelled more as she hit the ball, that should be less of a problem in my opinion.


I get the sentiment... I think, though, that it is proving harder to enforce unilaterally in Tennis. I heard several people speaking today that sometimes they call penalties and sometimes they don't... and then there's the idea of judging how much noise level is too much.

There are a lot of subjective (as opposed to objective) judgments here, and not all the officials are calling the rule the same way. I think that poses as much of a problem as the distractions of the noises themselves.


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## Laxguy

Stewart Vernon said:


> I get the sentiment... I think, though, that it is proving harder to enforce unilaterally in Tennis. I heard several people speaking today that sometimes they call penalties and sometimes they don't... and then there's the idea of judging how much noise level is too much.
> 
> There are a lot of subjective (as opposed to objective) judgments here, and not all the officials are calling the rule the same way. I think that poses as much of a problem as the distractions of the noises themselves.


If this trend keeps up, pretty soon we'll see pro golfers shouting on the backstroke of their opponents key putts...:nono2:


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## Stewart Vernon

Laxguy said:


> If this trend keeps up, pretty soon we'll see pro golfers shouting on the backstroke of their opponents key putts...:nono2:


While I quite like the idea of golf and tennis being quieter... and I don't like all the noise in other sports...

Baseball hitters have to ignore chatter all the time... people behind them yelling "SWING" and other things... Free throw shooters in basketball have to look at signs and all sorts of visual distractions as well as noises... and football players often can't hear the plays called on the field due to crowd noise.

In virtually all sports athletes are expected to focus and ignore the noise... but golf and tennis are not... so while I like the quiet, I find it difficult to say that they couldn't adapt to playing in more noise.


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## Nick

Why is it then, that a golfer requires complete silence to hit a golf ball that is lying completely still, while a baseball player can hit a 96 mile an hour fastball with 50,000 fans screaming in his ears? :scratch:
__________________

This just in: Medical science has determined that, in sports, intelligence is inversely proportional to the size of a man's balls.


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## Laxguy

Nick said:


> Why is it then, that a golfer requires complete silence to hit a golf ball that is lying completely still, while a baseball player can hit a 96 mile an hour fastball with 50,000 fans screaming in his ears? :scratch:


History.

Golf started as a game played by gentlemen, and with some notable exceptions, remains that, at least in the professional ranks.

And BB fans, even screaming ones, are just b/g noise to the players. The only "in the ear" screaming would come from the catcher during an at-bat.


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## Nick

Laxguy said:


> History.
> 
> Golf started as a game played by gentlemen, and with some notable exceptions, remains that, at least in the professional ranks.
> 
> And BB fans, even screaming ones, are just b/g noise to the players. The only "in the ear" screaming would come from the catcher during an at-bat.


Thanks for the explanation, Lax, but the question was more or less _rhetorical_.


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## Laxguy

Nick said:


> Thanks for the explanation, Lax, but the question was more or less _rhetorical_.


Ah, I see said the blind carpenter as he picked up his hammer and saw....

I simply did not know that.

And, I prefer, "Guy" or "Mr. Guy" to "Lax", which stands for lacrosse, rather than my attitude....


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## Gloria_Chavez

I enjoy watching Serena play and I admire her life story. From the courts of Compton to the lawn of Wimbledon. Amazing.

As she a "bad girl"? Yes, but so is John McEnroe, and he's well regarded.

Few Americans have done as much for American tennis as have McEnroe and the Williams Sisters.


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## Nick

Laxguy said:


> ...And, I prefer, "Guy" or "Mr. Guy" to "Lax", which stands for lacrosse, rather than my attitude....


Yes Sir, Mr. Guy. Thanks for the correction, although I could have assumed that "Lax" stood for "L-A-X" or, even worse, "Laxative". 



Gloria_Chavez said:


> I enjoy watching Serena play and I admire her life story. From the courts of Compton to the lawn of Wimbledon. Amazing.
> 
> As she a "bad girl"? Yes, but so is John McEnroe, and he's well regarded...


McEnroe is a "GIRL" ??? Who knew???


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## Stewart Vernon

Gloria_Chavez said:


> I enjoy watching Serena play and I admire her life story. From the courts of Compton to the lawn of Wimbledon. Amazing.
> 
> As she a "bad girl"? Yes, but so is John McEnroe, and he's well regarded.
> 
> Few Americans have done as much for American tennis as have McEnroe and the Williams Sisters.


That mostly sums up my feelings... though I will add that personally I've always liked her older sister Venus more, though Serena arguably became the better tennis player.

I only chastise her for the over-the-top stuff from 2 years ago that got borderline violent... that was inexcusable.

Her latest outburst, though, falls into the "I wish she wouldn't" category that most of McEnroe, Connors, and others falls into. I know McEnroe himself has said that he regrets some of his tirades during his time as a player.


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## Chandu

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Few Americans have done as much for American tennis as have McEnroe and the Williams Sisters.




Mr. Sampras, Mr. Agassi.....Please pick up the white courtesy telephones....


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## Stewart Vernon

Chandu said:


> Mr. Sampras, Mr. Agassi.....Please pick up the white courtesy telephones....


She did say "few others"...

If we're building a list... you would need to add Billy Jean King and Arthur Ashe as well. I'm sure there are others that I can't think of...

Also, a distinction... there are great athletes and there are athletes that did things that transcend the game. I would think the list of transcendent American tennis players would be short... somewhere in the 5-10 range tops.


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## Chandu

Stewart Vernon said:


> If we're building a list... you would need to add Billy Jean King and Arthur Ashe as well.


Agreed. Although, I would be hard pressed to mention names of John McEnroe/Williams sisters ahead of the 2 guys in my post when making a statement like that.

Sampras holds record of most number of consecutive weeks at world No. 1 ranking. Not even Federer could achieve that feat. (285 weeks for Federer vs. 286 for Sampras.) Agassi was the first ever pro (not just American) to win Grand Slams on all 3 surfaces - clay, grass, hardcourt. Federer and Nadal now have that feat, but no other American.

Other than that, after retirement what McEnroe has done giving back to sport pales in comparison to Agassi. (Working with underprevileged kids etc.) Sampras hasn't been as visible and involved giving back to community/sport as I would've liked. But there is still time. After his hibernation and desire to stay out of limelight is over, I hold hope that he'll get bored and come back in full force. Jury is still out on what contributions Williams sisters make in this regard, since technically they haven't retired yet. Somehow, I don't feel very optimistic.


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