# SWM-16 Overheating



## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Installer mounted swm-16 to side of house that gets sun all morning. Wife keeps complaining about losing signal for about 2 hours a day. Today same thing happened, went outside swm-16 so hot from sun I could not hold my hand on it. Do these overheat?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

They do get warm/hot, even out of direct sunlight, so it does seem feasible that yours is getting too hot.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

installer told me to try to block sun and see if it stops. Says can't get new swm till next Thursday.


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

My SWM gets hit by the sun in the later morning for a few hours and I have yet to have a problem. That being said, it doesn't mean yours may not be having a problem. Did you check Sat Signals at that time? VOS would SWM signal be different at a time of over heating?


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## pstr8ahead (Mar 26, 2007)

With overheating you would probably notice sudden drop outs as opposed to lower signal strength. I've had to take a SWM16 out of an attic that did not have proper ventilation and so far has been fine. I would try to relocate or cover it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

webby_s said:


> VOS would SWM signal be different at a time of over heating?


One would think "something" would be different if it was in some type of failure mode, but I haven't had one to know what it would look like.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

I lose the deca when it happens also. Farthest receiver from switch is the one that loses signal. Then h23 starts to flash other dvr's being disconnected. Only happens just before noon when sun is directly on switch.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> I lose the deca when it happens also. Farthest receiver from switch is the one that loses signal. Then h23 starts to flash other dvr's being disconnected. Only happens just before noon when sun is directly on switch.


Can you try a simple test of moving something next to your house to block the sunlight? A patio umbrella, a potted plant, whatever . . . just to see if that peak sunlight heating is causing the problem for sure?


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Have it covered right now. Sun is just about to get to the right height to hit switch. Nice and sunny perfect day to test if it's overheating.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

@ room temperature, the SWiM-16 runs about 126 degrees


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

One would think they would have cooked these things in an oven during the test process.


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## Tech_1438 (Jun 1, 2008)

barryb said:


> One would think they would have cooked these things in an oven during the test process.


Yea, kind of like testing the original SWM LNBs in a freezer, or at least in a market that is subject to sub-freezing temps. :nono2:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> I lose the deca when it happens also. Farthest receiver from switch is the one that loses signal. Then h23 starts to flash other dvr's being disconnected. Only happens just before noon when sun is directly on switch.


If I had an outside electronic device that already ran hot, I would *never* permit it to be exposed to direct sunlight.

If there were no other option, I would install a dryer vent cap over the top of it (a slanting metal sheet that has flange edges that could be secured to the siding). this would shade it at all times, and is available at any hardware/home improvement store for a couple bucks, at most.

If you want to see what one looks like, just go outside where your dryer vents out....there will most likely be one staring right back at ya!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

barryb said:


> One would think they would have cooked these things in an oven during the test process.


This type of testing normally is done just to prove it won't fail/die, but doesn't normally test the performance at the elevated temps.
Chips operated at -x to +y [according to their makers], the unit gets powered up and runs to "z" temp for "u" time and then gets returned to normal temps and functionally tested.


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## br408408 (Jun 1, 2008)

I live in Florida where the sun is very intense. I am self installed, so before mounting my SWM-8, I noted where the shadow of the dish was cast on the side of the house in both the morning and evening, and then mounted the SWM so it would be in the shadow most of the time. I also gave it a light coat of white paint from a spray can, not thick latex house paint. Just enough to cover, but not build up a thick film of paint. Paint something white and something else a medium to darker gray (like the SWM is) and put them is the sun for a while and then check and see how hot each one is. I think white would have a better choice of color for the SWM.

Anyway, I have never had a problem with heat.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> Installer mounted swm-16 to side of house that gets sun all morning. Wife keeps complaining about losing signal for about 2 hours a day. Today same thing happened, went outside swm-16 so hot from sun I could not hold my hand on it. Do these overheat?


What kind of siding is it mounted on? Is it flat against the siding? A little air space between the SWM and the siding may solve the problem.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> What kind of siding is it mounted on? Is it flat against the siding? A little air space between the SWM and the siding may solve the problem.


I was thinking the same thing. Some homemade standoffs.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

barryb said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Some homemade standoffs.


...and a cheap dryer vent cover...five minute job, costs a couple bucks. With this approach, you have both air circulation and shade. Cooler is always better, especially when the cost in time and money to get it is practically nothing.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

hasan said:


> ...and a cheap dryer vent cover...five minute job, costs a couple bucks. With this approach, you have both air circulation and shade. Cooler is always better, especially when the cost in time and money to get it is practically nothing.


I fully agree hasan.

Cooking a SWiM in the sun every day is not going to be any better than putting a DVR in an small enclosed area... for the long haul.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

br408408 said:


> Paint something white and something else a medium to darker gray (like the SWM is) and put them is the sun for a while and then check and see how hot each one is. I think white would have a better choice of color for the SWM.
> 
> Anyway, I have never had a problem with heat.


There is more to this.
Absorption verses radiation.
White is good for reducing absorption, while flat black is good for radiation.

Since these generate heat, a darker color is better.
Shading the unit from external heat [sunlight] is what should be done to reduce this component.
I'm not sure a dryer vent is large enough to cover the SWiM-16, but the idea is right.
Paint the sucker flat black, mount it on standoffs, if the mounting surface can't act as a heatsink too, and then find some way to shade it from direct sunlight while allowing good airflow.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Cooler temps are your friend (if your an electronic device).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Cooler temps are your friend


Unless it's a New England winter and you have to work outside. :eek2: :lol:


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## br408408 (Jun 1, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> There is more to this.
> Absorption verses radiation.
> White is good for reducing absorption, while flat black is good for radiation.


I am wondering if you could point me to some more reading on this. I build both computers and race cars and I would think all heat sinks and radiators would all be black.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

br408408 said:


> I am wondering if you could point me to some more reading on this. I build both computers and race cars and I would think all heat sinks and radiators would all be black.


I learned this, as you by working with race car/engines, but it was a long time ago [long before google :lol:].
You're right about radiating heat. Black is best.

For the SWiM-16, painting it black would maximize the radiation loss and shading it with a white shade would maximize the deduction of heat abortion from the sun.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Unless it's a New England winter and you have to work outside. :eek2: :lol:


Or midwest winter for the same thing....good point.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

br408408 said:


> I am wondering if you could point me to some more reading on this. I build both computers and race cars and I would think all heat sinks and radiators would all be black.


They are, but in direct sunlight, black gets a LOT hotter than white. VOS's solution is the correct one: shade the device and let it radiate heat (don't paint it white)


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I learned this, as you by working with race car/engines, but it was a long time ago [long before google :lol:].
> You're right about radiating heat. Black is best.
> 
> For the SWiM-16, painting it black would maximize the radiation loss and shading it with a white shade would maximize the deduction of heat abortion from the sun.


I must be missing something. I have never seen a black heat sink except when cast as part of the object.

I have never seen a black radiator in any car, unless you are talking about the sides, and if so, there is simply not enough surface area there to make any difference in the core temp of the radiator.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> I must be missing something. I have never seen a black heat sink except when cast as part of the object.
> 
> I have never seen a black radiator in any car, unless you are talking about the sides.


:lol: [damn kids]
"Back in the day", before these were aluminum, they were copper & brass and painted black. :lol:
I've seen black anodized aluminum heat sinks too.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> :lol: [damn kids]
> "Back in the day", before these were aluminum, they were copper & brass and painted black. :lol:
> I've seen black anodized aluminum heat sinks too.


haha...next thing you're going try to convince me of is that at one time TV's were black & white only!!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

-Draino- said:


> haha...next thing you're going try to convince me of is that at one time TV's were black & white only!!!!


You just haaaad to bring that up......:lol::lol::lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> haha...next thing you're going try to convince me of is that at one time TV's were black & white only!!!!





hdtvfan0001 said:


> You just haaaad to bring that up......:lol::lol::lol:


You both better NEVER get near my lawn. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> You both better NEVER get near my lawn. :lol:


!rolling

Not even after all the fertilzer I contributed? 

Rolling back to the topic at hand....I'm wondering out loud if there are any specs anywhere regarding "acceptable" operating temps...


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

No problems today. Blocking the sun seems to have worked. Like i said in original post swm was so hot yesterday I could only hold my hand on it for a few seconds. Today in the shade it feels warm to the touch.


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## br408408 (Jun 1, 2008)

I just want to find a scientific explanation as to why black conducts heat from a heatsink to the surrounding air better than white (or and any other color for that matter). I know black absorbes all light and thus get hot in the sun, but how can a color help or hinder a heatsink from conducting heat to air, other than any paint would act as some form of insulation and hinder the conduction of heat to some degree.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

br408408 said:


> I just want to find a scientific explanation as to why black conducts heat from a heatsink to the surrounding air better than white (or and any other color for that matter). I know black absorbes all light and thus get hot in the sun, but how can a color help or hinder a heatsink from conducting heat to air, other than any paint would act as some form of insulation and hinder the conduction of heat to some degree.


maybe this will help: http://education.jlab.org/jsat/powerpoint/0708_conduction_convection_radiation.ppt.


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## br408408 (Jun 1, 2008)

Don't have powerpoint on my little netbook, but I will check it out later. Thanks, VOS

Bill


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

br408408 said:


> Don't have powerpoint on my little netbook, but I will check it out later. Thanks, VOS
> 
> Bill


The fourth one down here can be viewed in HTML: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...1weTNHWMqX4Mdrq-ecKAAAAqgQFT9D9i10&fp=1&cad=b


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> haha...next thing you're going try to convince me of is that at one time TV's were black & white only!!!!


I have an extensive inventory of high power solid state equipment here and every single piece has black heat sink fins. I've only seen silver colored ones very rarely.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Update for everyone, after blocking sun no more problems.Maybe i have a bad switch. But after blocking sun for last three days no more problems.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dondude32 said:


> Update for everyone, after blocking sun no more problems.Maybe i have a bad switch. But after blocking sun for last three days no more problems.


Well that is indeed good news.

Perhaps the switch is OK....but all the sun added to the expected heat added up to too much high temps in total.

Enjoy!


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

br408408 said:


> I am wondering if you could point me to some more reading on this. I build both computers and race cars and I would think all heat sinks and radiators would all be black.


Check a physics textbook or google for "black body radiation."


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Alright alright I'll paint the thing black. Just kidding. Couldn't help myself after all the chatter on black heat sinks. Lol. Plus thanks to whomever corrected my spelling error in the post subject. Cringed every time I saw it.


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## br408408 (Jun 1, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> Check a physics textbook or google for "black body radiation."


Thanks, by googling "black body radiation" I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation

The following pertains to the Acrylic based white paint like I used.

"If objects appear white (reflective in the visual spectrum), they are not necessarily equally reflective (and thus non-emissive) in the thermal infrared; e. g. most household radiators are painted white despite the fact that they have to be good thermal radiators. Acrylic and urethane based white paints have 93% blackbody radiation efficiency at room temperature (meaning the term "black body" does not always correspond to the visually perceived color of an object). These materials that do not follow the "black color = high emissivity/absorptivity" caveat will most likely have functional spectral emissivity/absorptivity dependence."

Although I did not know this at the time that I painted it white (maybe I just blundered into something), I checked to see how hot it was running with my hand at the time I painted it, and it seemed only warm. I checked it's temperature today while it was in the shade.

Ambient air temp = 93.3

SWM-8 temp with an HVAC digital thermometer = 99.4,

SWM-8 tempwith an infrared thermometer = 99.6

Today, I mounted an unpainted (still gray), unpowered spare SWM-8 (I keep a spare SWM and a spare LNB on hand...GF can't live without TV  ) right next it the white paint one in use. Tomorrow, I will report of the temp of both when they are in the sun.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

-Draino- said:


> haha...next thing you're going try to convince me of is that at one time TV's were black & white only!!!!


And only THREE channels. . . you had to turn a dial on the front!!

That's why I sat close to the TV.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Just a possability.. but sometimes, rarely, you can have outdoor connectors that were prepped too shallow, making the center barely make contact with the barrel/ground block/switch. These connectors will fail during extreme heating and cooling because the dielectric of the coax grows and shrinks within the cable, pushing and pulling the center conductor in and out of contact.


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