# Recordings always cut off early



## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Any time both tuners will be in use, the current recordings get cut off early.

During prime time and late night, we typically have both tuners recording. No matter how you set up the recording timers and priorities, each recording loses the last 30 seconds or so.

I've decided it is a flaw in the Dish programming becasue of the delay in receiving the signal. The time on the 722k DVR says it's 9:00pm, my computer says it's 9:00pm, but the shows do not end until quite a bit later. This also easily verified by looking at a news channel that displays the time. Compare their time to the time on the guide of the DVR.

This is nuts. I never had this problem with either DirecTV or cable. There is no "fix" I can see other than for Dish to either fudge the time sent to their DVRs, or build in a software fix to delay the change from one timer event to the next.

Dish will not admit to the problem. Tecnicians cannot find any problems, but admit and agree it is happening. How do the rest of you stand missing the finale of every show - or is it just me?


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

It's not you, it's not Dish, it's the networks adding 1-2 minutes to the end of the show and staggering the start/finish times to screw with DVR users.

Just go into the Timers and add 1-2 minutes to the end of the recording. Easy and simple.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

coldsteel said:


> It's not you, it's not Dish, it's the networks adding 1-2 minutes to the end of the show and staggering the start/finish times to screw with DVR users.
> 
> Just go into the Timers and add 1-2 minutes to the end of the recording. Easy and simple.


Thanks for the quick reply.
The problem is, adding time to the end of a recording doesn't fix it. When both tuners are in use, the following recordings takes precident no matter what priority you set or how much time-end extension you add. You can tell the recording to end 60 minutes late, but it still gets cut off early when the following programs begin.
It is a Dish problem because the exact same recordings are fine on DirecTV (we switched a few months ago and had no issue with shows being cut off).


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

As coldsteel says, the networks often do this on purpose, to try to keep you from changing away from their network. They're hoping you stay to see the end of one show, and then since you missed the beginning of another show on another network, you stay with them and watch their show instead.

It's stupid, but surprisingly, it does work somewhat. It also annoys everyone.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

What's weird then is, we switched to Dish on January 14th, 2010 after being with DirecTV for about three years. We never had the problem with DirecTV. It happens with every show on Dish. The same shows are being recorded.

An easy work-around would be if Dish allowed you to start a recording one minute late, but you can't. Or, if the Dish priority settings worked properly, that would take care of it. You would have to make sure each following show had lower priority, but then the previous show would record to it's full length with a one minute extension.

By the way, this is not random or worse on one channel than another. It is every channel, all the time. You can easliy see the problem of the signal delay be comparing the clock on a news show to the clock on your DVR. I don't believe the intentional extension of shows by a network is the issue. It is this universal signal delay that Dish doesn not compensate for, but DirecTV does.


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## Tom_P (May 8, 2002)

I feel your pain, I've been experiencing this with Flash Forward, Fringe, Rules of Engagement , House and Modern Family.. I'm very frustrated by this.....

I can extend the recording time because the will be another recording after.. I only watched DVR'd programs for my Sitcoms and my Series, I like to watch several episodes in a row with no commercials...


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

I was just about to post this myself.

And I can confirm that it is Dish specific and not the network practice of ending some shows a minute late. I have the unusual situation (and will have it until after this weekend) of having Cable, DirectTV, and a new Dish installation all running at the same time. So when I saw this happening with my Dish recordings (I HATE losing the last 30 seconds to a minute of Lost! LOL!) I tested by setting recordings of all my shows on my cable DVR, my DirectTV DRV, and my Dish DVR. This is *ONLY* happening on the DISH recordings.

And the trick of setting the recordings to go a minute late is not working, due to other recordings starting up on time (and cutting off the extra minute set) or conflicts it causes in some situations.

This is a REAL pain in the butt and very frustrating. This is the only thing that is really making me pause at switching to Dish.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Poco Askew said:


> Any time both tuners will be in use, the current recordings get cut off early.
> 
> How do the rest of you stand missing the finale of every show - or is it just me?


Depends on what you mean by cut off early. "both tuners will be in use" isn't exactly where I see early cutoff either, but if something is recording on TV1 and it is going to switch to a new recording, there is a gap between the end of one and the start of the next but nothing close to 30 seconds. My wife always reminds me of her recording of American Idol final where the last thing heard is "The winner is David ..." and both guys were named David.

Compared to DirecTV, DISH does a terrible job with shows that don't end exactly "on the hour". For whatever reason, DISH decided long ago to round off the published start and end times of shows to the nearest multiple of a 5 minute boundary. Networks publish that a show will end at 9:01 or 9:02 and DirecTV or TiVo will use that ending time for the show. DISH just discards the extra minute or two and treats the show as ending at 9:00 and the next show to start then (add a few seconds to switch satellites / transponders). When the published start/end time of a show is 3 or 4 minutes after the hour, DISH treats it as 5 minutes after the hour and starts the recording a few minutes late.

You can use the early - late padding to try to compensate, but the default of 1 - 3 will be ignored if you have back to back shows on the same channel. That is useful if you WANT that to happen so the other tuner / output will be available for something else. If you WANT back to back shows to use separate tuners and get the start and end padding, you need to increase it from 1-3 default.

This only covers "some" shows on DISH. I don't encounter it on "every" show - many of them actually have a commercial in the last minute of the show that I'd never miss anyhow. By "finale", do you mean the short preview of the next episode? Of if you watch the Daily Show, the "moment of Zen"? That last one is usually missing for me, and the Colbert Report immediately following (I use 0-0 for padding) does NOT pickup right where the 1st recording stopped - but maybe 5 seconds missing???


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

I understand you problem, have had the same issue. You may want to look at the Direct TV side as you will find out this isn't just a Dish issue at all. Networks and there are several articals about this have been working hard to stagger the start of shows, to interfer with each other, its all about ratings, marketing and adds. 

I record all of my Locals via OTA, so no Dish Network interference at all, and still have the issue as the networks play way to many games. Last night(None of these are my shows) Glee was 64 minutes long, thats a 4 minute over run. Lost was 62 min's long. Thats just one nights example and even with a 3-5 seconds delay for Sat tranmissions, you can't compensate for shows that run minutes over. Two and Half Men, one of my shows, has been starting 1 minute early and ending 2 minutes late, and these shows are all recorded OTA, so Dish isn't even involved. I have never seen more than a 3-5 second delay between my OTA and Dish Sat signal on the same channel.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Just goes to show that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence....switching from D* to E* or vice versa both have their share of pros and cons....and it seems like 90% of the time people switch because they want an upgrade or something and arent willing to pay for it but the "other" provider is willing to give them what they want to steal them away....


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## janeslogin (Dec 13, 2006)

Poco Askew said:


> ...
> An easy work-around would be if Dish allowed you to start a recording one minute late ...


Somewhere there is a "manual timer" setup which should allow you to start one minute late, I think.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, perhaps it is because I've only had Dish for about a month now - but I do see a difference when I record the same program on DirectTV and Dish (I have both at the moment, long story) - the Dish one seems to be cut off most of the time, while the DirectTV one is not. I can't explain why, just what.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

I switched only because Dish finally offered my locals in HD. Direct still does not. I prefer the package and DVR over what I had with Direct, but not the loss of the end of shows.

When I say "finale", I mean whatever happens at the end of a show. Yes - the "Moment of Zen" at the end of the Daily Show is a good example. We lose the setup for the next episode of Lost. We lose part of the song a band plays at the end of David Letterman. We lose the "big" closing joke at the end of stand up comedy shows, etc. Sometimes it is just annoying. Other times it really ruins things.

I too had cable and DirecTV at the same time with no problems like this on either service. But with Dish, if both tuners are in use, it happens 100% of the time. Manual timers would work, but since shows come and go, have repeats, switch days, or have special 2 hour episodes, keeping on top of all of them would be nearly impossible (and should be unnecessary).

Again, if you look at the clock on any show that has one (usually news channels), you can see the real problem is the delay in the signal Dish provides. When 9:00pm rolls around, the clock from signal I receive shows it is still 8:59pm. The show doesn't end late. It ends exactly at 9:00pm. But by the time I receive the signal my DVR clock now says it is 9:01pm and the DVR has gone on to record the following shows.

My hope is someone from Dish monitors these forums, will see discussions like this and make a very simple fix for all of us. DirecTV figured out how to do it. I can think of at least three fixes or simple work-arounds that would end the grief.

BTW, I appreciate all the ideas and feedback. You are all great to listen to me whine. I only hope it does some good, but I'm not holding my breath...


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

janeslogin said:


> Somewhere there is a "manual timer" setup which should allow you to start one minute late, I think.


Press DVR button 3 times, select "Timers", select "Manual Timer". Set your manual timer. A bit of a pain but it works. Don't know why D*'s dvr's don't have this problem. I've always thought it was 100% a network game being played that caused the problem. By the way, looking at our local cable signal and the E* signal right now, 5 second delay on the E* signal.


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## Renob2317 (May 14, 2008)

I had the same problem with all the NBC shows on Thursday night. When I first set them up, each recorded on Tuner 2 and did cut off the last few seconds each time. If you tried to watch the end of the this on the show recording just after, there was a gap and part of what was cut off was missed on the next recording. I fixed this by setting each show to extend 5 minutes. Now the shows alternate recordings between Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 in sequence and I no longer have this problem. Now if you have two shows at 8:00 and then just one at 8:30 this will not work.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

VDP07 said:


> Press DVR button 3 times, select "Timers", select "Manual Timer". Set your manual timer. A bit of a pain but it works. Don't know why D*'s dvr's don't have this problem. I've always thought it was 100% a network game being played that caused the problem. By the way, looking at our local cable signal and the E* signal right now, 5 second delay on the E* signal.


Yeah but it doesn't work well for the reasons posted above. A manual timer cannot be associated with a particular show so the constant upkeep is all but impossible.



Renob2317 said:


> I had the same problem with all the NBC shows on Thursday night. When I first set them up, each recorded on Tuner 2 and did cut off the last few seconds each time. If you tried to watch the end of the this on the show recording just after, there was a gap and part of what was cut off was missed on the next recording. I fixed this by setting each show to extend 5 minutes. Now the shows alternate recordings between Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 in sequence and I no longer have this problem. Now if you have two shows at 8:00 and then just one at 8:30 this will not work.


Yes, with one show at a time, it's easy to fix.
That's what Dish really offers; the ability to completely record one show at a time.
If you want two shows to record, you are going to lose the end of the previous recording(s).


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Are the back to back shows on the same tuner? Can you get OTA reception?


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Kent Taylor said:


> Are the back to back shows on the same tuner? Can you get OTA reception?


Sometimes they are on the same tuner, sometimes not. It makes no difference in the outcome. If I want to see the end of a show, I have to find which show was on after it. That's a pain. Sometimes I've already deleted the following show, so the ending I want to view, is gone.
No OTA available here. If there was, I'd still be on the DTV forum. 
Seriously, I like a lot of the Dish package I have. I know this is a simple fix to correct the majority of the problem, but Dish refuses to even acknowledge that it's a problem.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ultimately the real problem is the networks. Even if Dish recognized the program ending at 9:01 or 9:02pm you'd still have a problem if the next show you wanted to record comes on at 9pm on a different channel... and the networks would just change and go another minute long anyway.

I changed my default to always start 2 min early and end 3 min late. I've had no problems with this config.

Of course it means more timer conflicts because if I try to start a timer at 9pm and I already have an 8pm timer that is still running until 9:03pm... then that's a conflict.

But that would be true even if Dish recognized the 9:01pm ending time of the event in the first place.

That's the whole reason networks do this with some shows... To mess with people who DVR their programs AND to keep you from switching to another network immediately after their show ends.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Ultimately the real problem is the networks. Even if Dish recognized the program ending at 9:01 or 9:02pm you'd still have a problem if the next show you wanted to record comes on at 9pm on a different channel... and the networks would just change and go another minute long anyway.
> 
> I changed my default to always start 2 min early and end 3 min late. I've had no problems with this config.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying.
Fact: This is NOT a problem on DirecTV. I just came from their service.
Fact: Even if the show ends EXACTLY at 9:00pm (or even a few seconds early), Dish cuts off the end.
Fact: As long as both tuners are in use, adding extra time to the end of a recording does not help.

It is true some shows run long. I'm aware of that situation. This is a concern but a separate issue. I'm not trying to solve it here. Dish aggravates the problem and makes it 100% universal because you lose the end of of EVERY show, ALWAYS, when both tuners are in use. If the show runs long, you just lose that much more.

IMO (actually I've measured it), the problem is likely in the delay of the Dish signal. I don't know this, but I believe DirecTV must compensate for this delay by either sending a slightly bogus clock time to their boxes, or through software that tells the timers to delay their action by some small amount of time.

If you watch a news broadcast with an on-screen clock, the show will end on time (let's say the show ends at 6:00pm within one or two seconds). By the time I am viewing the end of the news program, my DVR says it is 6:01pm and the DVR has been on 6:01 for quite a while. As a result, the DVR has gone on to record the next show. The end of the news program is chopped off 100% of the time, any time, any channel.

Sorry - I don't mean to beat the dead horse. Any Dish engineers on this board?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Poco Askew said:


> I understand what you are saying.
> Fact: This is NOT a problem on DirecTV. I just came from their service.
> Fact: Even if the show ends EXACTLY at 9:00pm (or even a few seconds early), Dish cuts off the end.
> Fact: As long as both tuners are in use, adding extra time to the end of a recording does not help.
> ...


If you are correct about the signal delay. I do a lot of OTA to SAT tuner comparisons, and I have nevers seen a delay of more than 5 sec's. Normally its about 3 sec's.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Ultimately the real problem is the networks. Even if Dish recognized the program ending at 9:01 or 9:02pm you'd still have a problem if the next show you wanted to record comes on at 9pm on a different channel... and the networks would just change and go another minute long anyway.


The problem you would have would be identified as a conflict where to get the actual end of the show on the recording with the rest of the show, you either have to not record the initial minute or two of the 9PM show on another channel or do what some non-DISH systems do and offer the option to still record the rest of the 9PM show instead of skipping it as a conflict. But you'd know it was going to fail. You can go to Zap2It.com and see where the DISH "solution" is going to cause grief. 
26-Apr CBS
Two and a Half Men 9:00 - 9:31 PM followed by
The Big Bang Theory 9:31 - 10:01 PM
CSI Miami 10:01 - 11:00 PM

27-Apr ABC
Lost 9:00 - 10:02 PM
V 10:02 - 11:00 PM

28-Apr ABC
Cougar Town 9:30 - 10:01 PM
Happy Town 10:01 - 11:00 PM

29-Apr ABC
Grey's Anatomy 9:00 - 10:01 PM
Private Practice 10:01 - 11:00 PM 
Interestingly, 22-Apr:
Private Practice 9:00 - 10:00 PM
Grey's Anatomy 10:00 - 11:00 PM
So this week the start and end time displayed by DISH for the show is actually correct after rounding off to 5 minutes. Next week when it is known well in advance that the show will run one minute over, the trailing minute is discarded from the displayed start-end times and you NEED end padding to really catch the end of the show in the recording.

DISH is provided the actual times and has chosen to round times to multiples of 5 minutes. There would be other issues it it didn't round them off, but you'd at least have the opportunity to see that there was an issue and could do something about it. Displaying a known incorrect 9PM end time and stopping a recording then (even if OTA) causes a chunk of the problems mentioned in the thread. Some locals make it worse by running way past published end times. My local channel differs from this generic Zap2It 
Late Show With David Letterman
11:35 - 12:37 AM 
My EPG shows it at 11-12, like it isn't two minutes longer every night. It is often even longer than Zap2It would indicate.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

One way to work around this is to add 60 (or 30) minutes to the first program when the next program is to recorded as well. I have to admit, I'm not having the kinds of problems you are reporting. You keep referring to "when both tuners are being used" as being the issue. I'm not sure why you say that.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> If you are correct about the signal delay. I do a lot of OTA to SAT tuner comparisons, and I have nevers seen a delay of more than 5 sec's. Normally its about 3 sec's.


I timed 15 seconds + CNN news this morning while trying to figure out what is going on.



Kent Taylor said:


> One way to work around this is to add 60 (or 30) minutes to the first program when the next program is to recorded as well. I have to admit, I'm not having the kinds of problems you are reporting. You keep referring to "when both tuners are being used" as being the issue. I'm not sure why you say that.


Because if only one tuner is in use, the extra 2-3 minute padding of the recording timer takes care of the problem. When both tuners are going to record, their is no opportunity for the padding to work.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Poco Askew said:


> Because if only one tuner is in use, the extra 2-3 minute padding of the recording timer takes care of the problem.


It would seem to me that's when the problem *would *happen.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Dish dual tuner DVRs don't normally jump from tuner to tuner unless you are using it in single user mode (don't have much experiance with this mode myself).


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Poco Askew said:


> Because if only one tuner is in use, the extra 2-3 minute padding of the recording timer takes care of the problem. When both tuners are going to record, their is no opportunity for the padding to work.


You need to change your padding to 2 minutes early and 4 minutes late and do a few forced tests that exercise 1-1:30 channel A, 1:30-2:00 channel B, ...
"when two tuners are in use" would cover one tuner recording 8PM-11PM as a single show and any other recording for the 2nd tuner during that time period would not do end padding as you've described it. It is likely choice of words, but I'm with Kent that padding different from the default 1-3 should be enough to force separate tuners to be used and both recordings to get early AND late padding when the end of one hits the start of the other. I'm thinking your "two in use" means that one tuner is busy and you want to record two things with the available tuner.

My receiver will drop the end padding of the 1st show and the early padding of the 2nd show when the padding is set to 1 early and 3 late but if that is changed, it will choose to record the shows separately and do the padding for both (assumes it can). Now, "both are in use" during the overlap, but record properly. If you have two recordings going on that will end at 9, you can't get Early padding, for something that will start at 9.

The ending being lost due to sat delay is something I've never investigated - just trying to understand the "both in use" part.

This is on a 612 (that only operates in Single) - right? I've never had access to a 612.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

CABill said:


> ...just trying to understand the "both in use" part.


I'm confused by that as well. I wonder if there's confusion between tuners and timers.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Maybe my use of the term "padding" is confusing things. I use a 722k DVR.
Let me give you a typical example. In this case all timers are set to start on time and record two minutes extra (end two minutes late).
Tuner #1 is set to record: Community (8:00 - 8:32) then 30 Rock (8:30 - 9:02), then The Office (9:00 - 9:32) followed by another 30 Rock (9:30 - 10:02).
Tuner #2 is set to record: Flash Forward (8:00 - 9:02), then Private Practice (9:00 - 10:02).
Of these recordings: Community, the first 30 Rock, The Office, and Flash Forward, will all have the end missing (about a minute). None will record the extra 2 minutes. Record lengths will be 30 minutes for the comedies and 60 minutes for Flash Forward.

It was not a problem with DirecTV so I never paid much attention to it. I had my DirecTV box set up with the recording defaults: start one minute early and finish two minutes late. I think (almost positive) on DirecTV, when two shows follow each other on the same channel, the DVR is able to record the overlap for the two events, even though the other tuner is in use recording something else. Maybe using a single tuner, it can apply the signal to two separate recording events (?). It is actually able to do four recordings during the early/late record overlaps, as long as it only needs two tuners in the process(?). With the 722 there is never an overlap when one show is set to record late and the next show begins when the other tuner is in use for another recording.

Sorry - I hope that makes sense...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

With a 722 and a 612, I can usually schedule around the problems but not always. Many times I can schedule a program to run an hour long because I want to watch the next program and hate losing a few seconds of dialog at the end of the first program.

Apparently those coveted live viewers don't plan when they watch their live TV anymore. If I watched live and wanted to watch something on network A that should be stopping a 9:00 pm but ran 3 minutes over screwing up what I wanted to watch next on Network B, I'd stop watching network A period. But that isn't what's happened since ABC started scheduling the odd times - couch potatoes apparently keep watching things they didn't plan to watch without picking up the remote.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Kent Taylor said:


> I'm confused by that as well. I wonder if there's confusion between tuners and timers.


I hope/think I have the terms correct.
A DVR has two tuners. That's why you can record two shows at the same time.

A timer establishes the recording events by telling the tuners what channel to record, when to start recording and when to end (along with priority, etc.) I have about 75 timers set up.

I say both tuners are in use because I am recording two shows at the same time (like Modern Family and The Daily Show = two tuners to record).


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Poco Askew said:


> Maybe my use of the term "padding" is confusing things. I use a 722k DVR.
> Let me give you a typical example. In this case all timers are set to start on time and record two minutes extra (end two minutes late).
> Tuner #1 is set to record: Community (8:00 - 8:32) then 30 Rock (8:30 - 9:02), then The Office (9:00 - 9:32) followed by another 30 Rock (9:30 - 10:02).
> Tuner #2 is set to record: Flash Forward (8:00 - 9:02), then Private Practice (9:00 - 10:02).
> Of these recordings: Community, the first 30 Rock, The Office, and Flash Forward, will all have the end missing (about a minute). None will record the extra 2 minutes. Record lengths will be 30 minutes for the comedies and 60 minutes for Flash Forward.


This info helped immensely, so I can tell you exactly why you are seeing what you are seeing.

The DVR only has 2 SAT (and 2 OTA if you have the 722K OTA module) in it.

So... if one timer is going from 8-9:02, and another is going from 8-8:32, there are only 2 possible ways to start a 3rd recording at 8:30:

1. The 8-8:32 timer has to stop at 8:30 so the other 8:30 timer can start

OR

2. the 8:30 timer gets skipped due to conflict.

IF you have the default padding of 1 min early + 2 min late (or 0 min early + 2 min late) then instead of giving you timer conflicts the receiver will stop/combine the tuner usage such that your 8-8:32 timer will end early and then the 8:30 timer will start.

This should be exactly what is happening to you. There really is no other way around it. Think of it like this:

You have 2 hands... Pick up a bat in your left hand, then a shovel in your right hand. How are you going to pick up the rake without dropping either the bat or the shovel?

Now... I changed my default padding to 2 min early + 3 min late. This accomplishes a couple of things. It catches shows that sometimes start early or end late AND it prevents the receiver from trying to combine and stop early as you are experiencing.

The tradeoff, though... is you can't have a 7:58-8:33, 7:58-9:03, and a 8:28-9:03 timer at the same time. That shows as a timer conflict and forces you to make choices.

IF you also have OTA, then you can set some for OTA and others for SAT... but every once in a while I have a night where I need more tuners than I have... in which case I have to set some new timers that night that have 30, 60, or 90 minute extended end times to catch all the shows I want with the limited number of tuners available.

Hope this info helps you understand what is happening better.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

I appreciate the info.
I think do understand what is happening, and why. I realize there are only two tuners.
I now believe it is not the signal delay because the delay measures only 12 to 16 seconds and this cut off problem usually is longer.
The fact remains, this is not an issue with DirecTV. I'm posting the question over on that forum to verify my recollection of how it works with their DVR.
I believe with the DirecTV DVR it can record back-to-back shows, including the padding overlaps, all on a single tuner as long as they are on the same channel.
I used to record "The Daily Show" followed by "The Colbert Report" with each recording starting one minute early and ending two minutes late. At the same time, I could record "The Middle" and "Modern Family" with the same amount of recording overlap, using the other tuner. When everything was done, Each recording was 33 minutes long. I could watch the very end of The Daily Show prior to the begining of Colbert recording, and I could watch the first minute, or so, of Colbert at the tail end of the Daily Show. That single tuner was used for both recording events, leaving the other tuner available for another recording. This meant it didn't matter if a show ended on time, since the added record padding was captured. The Dish box doesn't do that.

I've asked a friend who still uses DirecTV to verify, and will see what that forum says. If I am correct in how their DVR works, it is pretty much a deal-breaker for me with Dish. The ability to record two channels at once w/o worrying about exactly when the shows end is HUGE. I'll post back once I know if I have the answer.

Thanks all.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

if you want to record 2 shows back to back on the same channel(and same tuner) without losing some content,
you "can" set the first show to record and extend the time to cover the second show as well.

ie: show A starts at 7pm on channel 2 and show B starts at 7:30pm on channel 2 
select show A from guide and add 30 min to it's time.
this will record both shows (however under one "label")


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

retiredTech said:


> if you want to record 2 shows back to back on the same channel(and same tuner) without losing some content,
> you "can" set the first show to record and extend the time to cover the second show as well.
> 
> ie: show A starts at 7pm on channel 2 and show B starts at 7:30pm on channel 2
> ...


Yeah - that is the only work-around. It works pretty well sometimes, but since there are so many repeats mid-season and shows jump around, it still becomes a maintenance nightmare.

BTW, I was able to verify why this is not an issue with D* boxes.
I had a friend record shows like in my example above. I also got replies from several members on the D* forum.
With their software, one tuner will record both the "end late padding" and the "record early padding" from back-to-back shows. Each recording will have both recording extensions even if the other tuner is in use recording other things. The D* box will not record late when both tuners are in use.

At least I now know why this was never an issue with DirecTV and it is with Dish. Unfortunately there is no good/east fix for E* boxes. The way I record this is a huge advantage for D*. You really almost never have to worry if shows end on time with their service. Live and learn...


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Poco Askew said:


> With their software, one tuner will record both the "end late padding" and the "record early padding" from back-to-back shows.


Really.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Kent Taylor said:


> Really.


Yep. That's why it never bothered me wth their service. I had a friend try it and it works. He got four shows, each one with 33 minutes of recording. Two shows were back-to back one one channel, while the other two shows recorded back-to-back on another channel. The key is the back-to-back recordings must be on the same channel. In my use, that's almost always the case. I will record Mercy followed by L&O SVU on one channel tonight while on another I'll record The Middle, Modern Family and Cougar Town. With a D* box each and every recording will start 1 minute early and finish through the 2 or 3 minute extension. No early cut-offs. If only the 722 would do that.


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> You have 2 hands... Pick up a bat in your left hand, then a shovel in your right hand. How are you going to pick up the rake without dropping either the bat or the shovel?


The real question here is, are you gonna play some ball or do some gardening?


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

VDP07 said:


> The real question here is, are you gonna play some ball or do some gardening?


:lol:


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Poco Askew said:


> Yep. That's why it never bothered me wth their service. I had a friend try it and it works. He got four shows, each one with 33 minutes of recording. Two shows were back-to back one one channel, while the other two shows recorded back-to-back on another channel. The key is the back-to-back recordings must be on the same channel. In my use, that's almost always the case. I will record Mercy followed by L&O SVU on one channel tonight while on another I'll record The Middle, Modern Family and Cougar Town. With a D* box each and every recording will start 1 minute early and finish through the 2 or 3 minute extension. No early cut-offs. If only the 722 would do that.


Ok, fine. 
BTW, your avatar is scary.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

VDP07 said:


> The real question here is, are you gonna play some ball or do some gardening?


Hey... you do have to tend the grounds/field before you can play 

And on topic...

I can theorize exactly how a receiver could do what Poco is saying DirecTV does. I don't know if DirecTV truly does, so I'll have to take his word for it... but I can envision exactly how it can be done on a single tuner.

For the example scenario assume only one available tuner for recording, and the following timers:

Timer 1 set for 8:00pm-8:33pm
Timer 2 set for 8:30pm-9:03pm

Now for how the receiver could be programmed to handle this:

1. Timer 1 fires at 8pm and goes happily along.
2. Just prior to 8:30 receiver realizes it has another timer to fire at 8:30 on the same channel that will overlap for 3 minutes of recording time and marks the 8:30 portion of the file.
3. Just prior to 8:33pm receiver again recognizes that the second timer needs to continue until 9:03pm so it again marks the 8:33pm portion.
4. While still recording, the receiver makes a temporary copy of the recording so far from beginning to that 8:33pm mark and closes that file as the completed first timer.
5. Receiver can then "throw away" everything prior to that 8:30pm marker so that the recording now in progress just contains that data.

No fuss, no muss. I may be overestimating the simplicity of the coding involved, but I'm sure the Dish engineer working on that area of code could accomplish this.

FYI... Just for fun, I sent this in as a suggestion to Dish to see what they think.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Couldn't the DVR software just make three recordings when there is back-to-back overlap: 1st recording = 1st show, 2nd recording = overlap, 3rd recording = 2nd show.
When playback is requested, the 2nd recording would be appended to the end of the 1st recording and to beginning of the 3rd recording? No matter what you pick to watch, the full record pads would be included.
[edit]
I hope E* takes your suggestion. It's enough of an advantage for me to jump ship. If/when D* gets my locals in HD, there is no question who I'll go with, even though there are things I prefer about my current package. Not dealing with all the early cut-offs when programs run over is a huge deal to everyone that does much recording, I would think.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Poco Askew said:


> Not dealing with all the early cut-offs when programs run over is a huge deal to everyone that does much recording, I would think.


I typically record three to five programs nightly. I currently have 92 active timers. I just don't have the kinds of problems you describe. I'm not doubting you, it's just odd that your DVR exhibits this behavior.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Kent Taylor said:


> I typically record three to five programs nightly. I currently have 92 active timers. I just don't have the kinds of problems you describe. I'm not doubting you, it's just odd that your DVR exhibits this behavior.


I watch too much TV. We record 3-5 shows on one channel alone and probably an average of about 10 - 12 total per night. If you can typically record with only one tuner in use, then you won't have the problems we see.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

On the back to back programs that are on the same channel all you have to do is start the playback of the next show to see the end of the show that gets cutoff. So where is the real problem because you don't really miss anything.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Kent Taylor said:


> I typically record three to five programs nightly. I currently have 92 active timers. I just don't have the kinds of problems you describe. I'm not doubting you, it's just odd that your DVR exhibits this behavior.


Thursday is my busy night, have 6 recordings tonite and they are all basicly back to back. Fox 8pm Bones and 9pm Fringe, CW 8pm Vampire Diaries and 9pm Supernatural, and CBS 8pm Survivor Heros/Villian and 9pm CSI are all back to back. Wife hasn't complained about this kind of issue and with Bones she would if it was cutting off any of the show she would. As would the kids, if Vampire and Supernatural were having problems. They would be yelling at me for Sabotaging thier shows.

Power of the 722, is I still get one Sat tuner, so I can surf, and keep an eye on the NFL Draft highlights and talk, and watching Galapagos, or something else.


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## russ9 (Jan 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Thursday is my busy night, have 6 recordings tonite and they are all basicly back to back. Fox 8pm Bones and 9pm Fringe, CW 8pm Vampire Diaries and 9pm Supernatural, and CBS 8pm Survivor Heros/Villian and 9pm CSI are all back to back. Wife hasn't complained about this kind of issue and with Bones she would if it was cutting off any of the show she would. As would the kids, if Vampire and Supernatural were having problems. They would be yelling at me for Sabotaging thier shows.
> 
> Power of the 722, is I still get one Sat tuner, so I can surf, and keep an eye on the NFL Draft highlights and talk, and watching Galapagos, or something else.


Since they are back to back on the same channel it is much less likely you would notice it (or care.) The problem is the tuner has to switch to another channel, the new one will start about 15 seconds early (I just checked the time bar on 6 recordings to verify that.) For me any recording that ends at the hour and there is a program to be recorded on that tuner immediately afterwords will get cut off.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

russ9 said:


> Since they are back to back on the same channel it is much less likely you would notice it (or care.) The problem is the tuner has to switch to another channel, the new one will start about 15 seconds early (I just checked the time bar on 6 recordings to verify that.) For me any recording that ends at the hour and there is a program to be recorded on that tuner immediately afterwords will get cut off.


No I think I understand the part of jumping from one channel to another channel. Part of the idea here was to create a back to back to back. When recording back to back on the same channel I just can't see an issue.
I have played with it, and can see what the OP is talking about, when it jumps from 1 channel to another channel. I have played with it and most of my times are more like 8-10 sec's, but I will take your word for it, in on your system. I have to say I have noticed this problem in the past, but normally only with my Autotunes, not so much with the recordings. Since I am in front during a Autotunes, I just pause, for just a couple of seconds. Granted most shows have ended and its just the last part of a commercial, and not really missing a part of the show.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

n0qcu said:


> On the back to back programs that are on the same channel all you have to do is start the playback of the next show to see the end of the show that gets cutoff. So where is the real problem because you don't really miss anything.


Now that I understand his problem... I see why it is a problem.

Sure he has the ends of those events at the beginning of the next event... but that means he has to know where all those events are. If he waits a day or two to watch... he has to remember all of that AND remember not to delete that recording that contains part of another show before he has watched that other show.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Poco Askew said:


> Couldn't the DVR software just make three recordings when there is back-to-back overlap: 1st recording = 1st show, 2nd recording = overlap, 3rd recording = 2nd show.
> When playback is requested, the 2nd recording would be appended to the end of the 1st recording and to beginning of the 3rd recording? No matter what you pick to watch, the full record pads would be included.
> [edit]
> I hope E* takes your suggestion. It's enough of an advantage for me to jump ship. If/when D* gets my locals in HD, there is no question who I'll go with, even though there are things I prefer about my current package. Not dealing with all the early cut-offs when programs run over is a huge deal to everyone that does much recording, I would think.


Now that I understand.. I completely understand your frustration, especially if this is something DirecTV can do.

I'm more in the camp with Kent, that I don't have this come up very often and I work around it when I do by making special one-time recordings that are 60-90 minutes long... but I absolutely see where you're coming from now.

FYI, I do think Dish liked the suggestion I sent... but it could be more difficult to code than I imagine in my mind. Still, I too hope they implement such a thing because it really increases the flexibility of their available tuners when you are making a lot of back-to-back timers on the same channel.


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

n0qcu said:


> On the back to back programs that are on the same channel all you have to do is start the playback of the next show to see the end of the show that gets cutoff. So where is the real problem because you don't really miss anything.


As was posted above, we sometimes watch things out of order (we have our favorites). I do keep track of it (now) to minimize the loss of show endings, but it is a bit of a pain to go and search for the correct show with the ending. There still does seem to be a small amount missing, when you find the next show, but not much.

I really appreciate everyone's ideas and suggestions. At least I understand what is going on now and how to minimize the problem. We've decided to stick with E* until our locals are available in HD from the other guys. In a perfect world I'd take the best of both services and really have a great DVR experience.

Now, as to the never-ending pixilation and audio sync' problems... 
(I'll start a new topic if/when I can't stand them any longer)


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Anyone, other than me, think this thread has run it's course?


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## Poco Askew (Sep 25, 2007)

Kent Taylor said:


> Anyone, other than me, think this thread has run it's course?


I agree.
Feel free to close it.
Thanks again.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

I'll just add that I'm a former DirectTV subscriber and I am frustrated by the exact same problem, and also never had it with D*.

We watched Lost and the show cut off right as Jun and Kim hugged - never saw the critical scene that ended the show. We're getting frustrated having to watch Hulu to see the end of our shows.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Since we've addressed (but not fixed) the OP's original issue, I'll close the thread as "asked & answered"...

But if I hear anything from Dish about any potential feature changes, I'll update the thread at that time.


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