# Star Trek: Nemesis...



## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Well saw it. I'd say it is better than any of the Odd numbered movies, but still Wrath of Kahn, First Contact and Voyage Home are better, I'd put it between Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country. But Kahn, Contact and Home are all significantly better than Nemesis but had to put is somewhere in the lineup.


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## jrjcd (Apr 23, 2002)

i tend not to catagorized each of the treks mainly because there's a lot i enjoy in each of them(even trek five!!!!).... 

saw nem this afternoon and enjoyed it a lot more than i thought i would, tho jonathan frakes is beginning to look rather seedy and spiner's looks have gone all to heck for the character(and why they felt they had to intro B-4-ugh....better data's neuro pathways had been put into a reconstituted Lal-THAT would have made for a more interesting story)-didn't like the waste of worf(btw-in the trek mythology, shouldn't he be handling klingon diplomatic problems instead of helming the weapons consul???), but the change in director and script writer helped-would like to see at least two more generation films before troi's breasts are dragging the poopdeck-overall had a fine time-very good villian and always good to see ron perlman, even if he is under about twenty pounds of makeup... 

also would have liked to at least met the new crew of the enterprise AND the crew of the titan, even if just for a second....(wouldn't it had been great if at the end, picard strolls onto the bridge and commands "number one" to take the ship out of spacedock...and it was geordi giving that order, then a full shot of the bridge with nana visitror at the weapons station, nicole deboer at the counselor's chair, hallie todd at the helm, and alexander siddig hanging nearby-ALL without any explanation!!!!now, THAT would have been too cool...lol)


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

It's not getting good reviews, is it?


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

I think the reviews are a little harsh, but it is still better than any of the Odd #ered movies, so that says alot to me. Much of the criticism is valid, but like a James Bond or Jackie Chan movie, as long as it fits into a certain mold most people will be happy with it even if not ground breaking or spectacular. I was more pleased with it than Star Wars Ep 1 & 2, so it is all relative.


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## RandomBites (Jul 1, 2002)

This was the worse STNG movie I have ever seen. I would rather watch any NG episode after season 1. There was absolutely no plot, No character development and just a bunch of shooting and blowing things up in the middle. I definitely will not be buying the DVD when it comes out in a week or so.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

RandomBites, It was better than "Insurrection" for sure. 

Why say no to TiVO when your Sister and your Father have it?


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## RandomBites (Jul 1, 2002)

I have to say I liked Insurrection better. I do have that DVD. This movie just had too much useless crap in it. The Romulans were boring, the scene with Troy and Riker being violated had no purpose other than Riker enjoying killing the Viceroy guy more. I liked the beginning and the end, the rest was just like any other Sci-Fi movie. I expect more from ST.

I say No cause every time I use their TiVo it screws up for me. TiVo must be too user friendly for me.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Finally saw it today. I enjoyed it but I must say that it was no more than a 2 hour episode of the series. Nothing really groundbreaking. 

The real treat for me are the bumper scenes of the Enterprise flying through space with Jerry Goldsmith's music. Priceless!

Also liked seeing the cameo from Janeway. A nice surprise.

I will be getting this DVD. Not the best Trek movie but still a nice addition to the collection.

P.S. Did anyone catch the reference Riker made to the "Kirk-Epsilon" maneuver? Right out of Star Trek II. Very cool!


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Nemesis, according to this weeks preliminary box office, dropped to making only $4.4 million this weekend. Even with the release of The Two Towers, that's a steep drop.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Well, I saw Nemesis Sunday evening with a friend. It seemed more like a "extra special episode of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_" instead of a movie, and was more of a actioner rather than character/dialogue driven story. The villian was supposed to be a mirror image of Picard, however, he seemed hollow to me. Khan was still more menancing.

Wait for the video... it should be out by Spring. The way it flatlined, this is the last Trek movie adventure.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I saw this a couple of weeks ago. There were a few things that I really liked about it, and some things that I really didn't like with the rest of it being pretty ho-hum.

What I really liked: 

The space battle scene. I thought it was brilliant and definitely the best battle scene that has been created in the Star Trek Universe. Loved watching the Romulan ship pull away and seeing the front end of Enterprise smashed to hell. Also wondering when they're going to install seatbelts for the bridge crew... 

The dune buggy. Thought it was a really nice addition to the mythos.

That Troi and Riker finally got hitched and Riker got the hell off the Enterprise to his own ship. Should have happened 10 years ago. Also along with this, Picard's toast to them was great.

What I really didn't like:

First and foremost, why the bloody hell did Shinzon have such a hatred towards Earth? That made absolutely no sense at all because there was no explanation for it. I can absolutely see why he would despise Picard, and why he would despise Romulus, but I couldn't come up with a reason he would also feel that way about earth. He had the potential to be the best "bad guy" since Kahn if the writers had actually written Shinzon well. A real shame...

Secondly, because there was no reasoning behind Shinzon's actions that made what happened to Data meaningless. What should have been a very emotional touching moment was turned into a "WTF" type moment for me. No sense and no meaning.

Third, I'm actually pretty pissed that they cut Wesley Crusher out completely except for a cameo appearance at the wedding. 

Fourth, all of the locating B-4 nonsense. They good and well knew that there were prototypes to Data out there somewhere. That was well established in the series. Why were they so surprised to find one?

How the hell did the Romulans get ahold of B-4 to spread him out on that planet? Not to mention, how the hell did the Romulans get ahold of Picard's DNA in the first place 20 years ago? That would put them getting his DNA around the beginning of the series, and the Romulans hadn't had any contact with the Federation for a long time at that point. Remember in Season 3 when they made their first appearance in a long time with the classic line "We've been gone for awhile, but now we're back!"

Which leads into all of the other inconsistencies with the series. It can be a good thing to bring in fresh writers and a director that knows nothing about Star Trek, but damnit, you have to remain consistent to what has already been established!

All in all, I think I enjoyed it, but I left feeling disappointed. It could and should have been the best Trek since Kahn, but it wasn't. And that's a shame.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Mark...a couple of things:

The Romulans were introduced to the TNG time-line in "The Neutral Zone" which was the last episode of the first season. There were several episodes that dealt with the romulans beyond that point. Picard was actually ON Romulus in "Unification" (5th season). This was also the episode where Spock made an appearance on the TNG time line.

The B-4 thing was nonsense from the get-go. Revisionist "history: once again ignoring what has been said as fact in previous episodes. In the second season episode "Brothers", Dr. Noonian Soong himself said that Lor and Data were the ONLY two androids of that type he made. LOR was the first. Data the second. And later on it was revealed that there was a third but it was a woman companion to Soong who did not realize she was an android.

I agree with you 100% about consistancy though. This is something that has been sticking in my craw since Voyager!

See ya
Tony


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chris Blount _
> *Finally saw it today. I enjoyed it but I must say that it was no more than a 2 hour episode of the series. Nothing really groundbreaking.
> 
> The real treat for me are the bumper scenes of the Enterprise flying through space with Jerry Goldsmith's music. Priceless!
> ...


Finally saw it. Your review is spot on. Enjoyable, but not a top film. Better than the odd films (close to III). I got the impression the cast did this film for money, not love.

Got the Kirk ref. Good stuff! The other android could have been a reprogrammed Lor. If I remember right, he was dismantled, not destroyed.

I also liked the "Data running into space" scene." Clever.

The Romulan history discrepancies were horrible. In TOS, no one had ever seen a Romulan (I remember Spock's initial reaction). Doesn't seem like Berman and Lauritson did their homework....AGAIN!


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It was my impression that the B4 was not a Soong creation but a Romulan built prototype. It was like the plot to replace Picard, replace Data, but was abandoned like the Picard plot. So, the timeline could still be ok with only Data and Lor by Soong and B4 by the Romulans.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

good point. The question is whether the writing team intended for that to be the story or whether we just reasoned it out for them


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Thought I would bump this thread since it was released to DVD this week.

I watched it again last night I and must agree with previous posts that the battle scenes are definitely first rate. When I first saw STN in theaters, the sound system wasn't all that great. After finally seeing this movie on my home theater, I must say that it was a great experience. For a few minutes it reminded me of Wrath Of Khan. Pretty good action with a few suspensful moments and some great sound effects that shook the foundations of my house.

I must say that STN works much better on DVD with a good Dolby Digital surround system. My only real complaint is that the first half of the movie is downright boring. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

I think the boring part is due to the need to wrap up some of the ongoing stories.....Riker/Troi, Data........

I doubt they make another pure TNG film. They may use DS9 and pollenate with the TNG cast.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I would much rather see the voyager cast in a movie than the DS9 cast. Capt Sisko drove me crazy, the rest of the cast was ok. But, since Sisko is down with with prophets I guess he may not be in it, and the orginal Dax was killed off.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Unless "Enterprise" becomes a viable franchise, I think we have seen the end of the Star Trek movies? I guess they could have general Star Trek Universe movies (using one or two of the known characters) But how much draw would any of the DS9 or Voyager characters have. I doubt that all the Trekkies would see it, let alone the passing fan.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

How about the Generations film that should have been made. .....Star Trek: Prime Directive

Due to the ever convenient Time Rift, Picard and the Enterprise-E get thrown back in time to Earth into Jeffrey Archer's Enterprise Timeline. Although a lot like First Contact, they could assist Archer and the original Enterprise in defeating some Earth threatening race. Just imagine how much Stewart could chew up the scenery when he sees the first Enterprise on approach. The entire NX-01 crew could be sworn to secrecy to prevent damage to the timeline which would explain the lack of info in the history books. Picard could have a scene where he discusses the concept of the Prime Directive (surprisingly absent so far), and the end of the movie could be Archer in front of a Starfleet Assembly discussing the concept with the Vulcans raising eyebrows at the "logic" of the concept.....

For the action junkies you could have one of the alien races getting ready for an ambush on Earth's lone "starship" capable of repelling an invader. As Enterprise is getting the bejesus kicked out of them the Enterprise from the future comes screaming out of warp at Warp 9 (remember, none of the space faring races have anywhere near that speed in Archer's timeline) and comes in TriLithium torpedoes blazing (Think Commander Cain and the Pegasus in the original Battlestar Galactica series). After numerous hostile forces are destroyed, several turn tail to run to get reinforcements. Picard could then bluff that Earth has dozens of similar ships ready to destroy any hostile threat. A visibly angry and frustrated alien fleet commander would then spit at the threat and come after them with some appropriately sinister doomsday weapon. Cue the Emmerich/Devlin countdown timer as Archer and Picard save Earth together by rigging charges to blow the alien ship before detonation. They are transported in using Picard's transporter. Archer complains about hating to be transported. Picard throws off a smirk and states that he once knew an old retired Enterprise Chief Medical Officer that felt the same way, (Nod to McCoy from the original series) but that you get used to it after a while. They set the timers concurrent timers are overlapped (the countdown to the Doomsday weapon (DW) with the countdown for the bomb Picard/Archer has placed) The bomb unfortunately is soon realized to be a couple of seconds slower than the DW so they have to storm the bridge phasers blasting. They take out the guy manning the weapons console, and call out to their own ship to be transported. As soon as their bodies shimmer into the transporter beam, the alien captain goes to hit the activation button to detonate the device, but as soon as he hits the button and the front of the ship glows to show the weapon about to discharge we zoom into the federation bomb which then clicks to zero and BABOOM. Happy popcorn munchers everywhere in movieland.

OK< not the deepest plot, but the movies are more popcorn munchers than cerebral exercises (witness the general bored response to Insurrection).


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Star Trek: Nemesis was the worst performing film, with Patrick Stewart saying in no uncertain terms that this was the final film for him.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

"Final" doesn't mean "final" if enough money is offered. The problem is this was a real Box Office disappointment.

There will be more movies, but something has to be done to bring in the crowds (like get rid of Berman).


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

The novel Vendetta would have made the truly ulimate NG movie. Consider the resurrection of that flying stalactite from TOS going around eating whole planets, laying waste to everything with a pure antiproton beam, and on a one-track mission of revenge against the Borg.

And please please please don't mention "a very special" as a phrase anywhere near anything you don't want to make sound like it was neutered, like making Schwarzenegger dress like Stuart Smalley. A very special Trek ep sounds like Picard investigates his sexuality, Troi considers changing tracks in life to do feminist deconstruction, Data yearns for deeper meaning in his ancestry by studying Univac, and so on.

There's a zillion present day namby pamby new wave nonsense things that should not be allowed near Trek with a ten foot osmiridium bar. Unfortunately, many of the hardcore Trekkies are the credulous sort of idiots to adopt those things. I don't even want to think of one specific convention I went to in 89 in NYC and all the horrendous things people conversed on. Now that was some bad dialogue.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Go rent _Galaxy Quest_ sometime. You would believe how close it resembled _Star Trek_, and there was a standing order that those two words were not to be uttered.

And, yes, it's a favorite of Trekkers.


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## jrjcd (Apr 23, 2002)

there's a reason galaxy quest resembles star trek....lol


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## marko (Jan 9, 2003)

Man, I went to buy nemesis at best buy/walmart, and both were sold out. I was surprised at that.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Galaxy Quest was one of the funniest movies ever made! They hit on just about every Trek cliche. They made a joke out of all of Trekdom from the actors to the situations in the show. Anyone who is a Trek fan (especially TOS) will love this movie!

See ya
Tony


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## jrjcd (Apr 23, 2002)

red shirts for sale!red shirts for sale!


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