# VIP 211 - Need to reset for DVR function



## mcarreiro

I have a Seagate Showcase 1TB external hard drive on my VIP211. It's been trouble-free for the three or four months I've had it. But lately I find the receiver regularly (almost daily) has lost the DVR function and needs to be reset.

Here's the routine.

Turn on the equipment.
Hit the guide to see what's available.
Notice that there's no "episode data" for a program, THE sign that the DVR function has gone south.
Reset the VIP211, "downloading..." and all is well

If the Seagate was not specific for this DVR application, I'd be looking for sleep mode issues with the drive. And, again, it had performed fine for months. I'd like to hear that someone else is seeing this behavior and that it may just be a temporary firmware issue.

Thoughts?


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## Stewart Vernon

Hi... and welcome!

Have you actually investigated the sleep-mode possibilities? I know you said it was meant for DVR so you don't suspect sleep-mode... but invariably this does sound like a drive going to sleep when it shouldn't.


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## mcarreiro

In fact, after I posted the message yesterday, I did confirm the disk was spinning before I turned on the recever for the first time of the day. The disk side of the equation is not seeing "sleep", but that doesn't mean the receiver isn't.

Again, it was necessary to reset the receiver to gain DVR functions. With a couple of months of solid performance under its belt, I sense the only variable to be firmware. A reset/download quickly(?) corrects it. 

As I write this I had the thought that I should at least reseat the usb connections, ...a long shot but why not?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## P Smith

First - test the disk, best way to do that, connect to PC and use MHDD. Post SMART values before any actions. You could use Victoria, that program could works under Windows.


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## mcarreiro

Thanks for the tips. I haven't looked at a low level disk diagnostic in a couple of decades. Victoria is quite impressive. 

Well, I'm in the third straight day of flawless operation without having taken any action on the issue since my original post. Sun spots? FM? Who knows? Hopefully we can just chalk it up as a passing incident. 

Now that I've said that...

-Mike in RI-


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## P Smith

Can you post SMART table of your disk ? I'm curious if there some hint for that behavior.


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## mcarreiro

Victoria is not happy with a non-ATA drive. I really don't want to destroy the data on the drive. I've got to hit the road for a few days, so don't think I'm ignoring your future posts.

-Mike-


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## P Smith

I'm using v446 with SATA disks without problem, plus reading SMART data will change no one bit on your disk .


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## Jim5506

If you set your 211 to never go into stand by, the Seagate will never go to sleep on you, because the receiver will be constantly buffering data to it.


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## mcarreiro

Preview 
I'm back from my road trip. Here's the update.

After my last post, I took the drive from my PC back to the receiver, plugged it in, reset the receiver, expecting a good download and DVR functionality. NG! I repeated the resets, unplugging AC, etc. with no luck at all. I called DISH and they more or less had me repeat all the steps I'd taken. Still NG. They set up an appointment for a tech to visit on my return from vacation (today). My actual return was yesterday afternoon. I turned on my equipment to find that the DVR functionality had magically returned. In fact it had successfully recorded two of my regular shows, one Sunday and one on Monday. I cancelled the Dish appointment.

This totally hands-off recovery again leads me to believe it's related to firmware downloading. The Seagate Showcase drive, by design, does not use sleep mode. Even if I had a drive that was asleep, I can't imagine it awakening by itself in this application (sleep mode would not be a problem if that was the case).

If anything else of value occurs, I'll certainly post it for the "think tank".

Again, folks, thank you for your input.

-Mike-


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## johnteeee

Hi
I had the exact problem and just like you I tried everything to no avail !
At the end a better quality USB CABLE did the trick.

Good Luck


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## Rduce

I have had this problem ongoing since the last software download and have contacted tech support about it. I was informed that it was a known problem and they are working on it.


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## pghag1693

JOHNTEEEE were you using a Seagate Showcase drive specified as compatible with a DishNetwork Vip211 the same as MCARREIO and are you on DishNetwork?
I can see a USB Cable perhaps being a problem with regular EHD, but not with the Seagate supplied USB cable, is the reason I ask. 
The Seagate Showcase drive different than Computer EHD in that is does not matter that you get occasional bad write which is usually only equal to a pixel or so, which you can't see on you TV, so the Seagate Showcase EHD is set standard to both ignore those error writes and never go to sleep. That is why it is the only EHD that DishNetwork states as being compatable. 
RDUCE can you supply the DishTech support contact IDentifier that you have been working with. As you know each time you call you get a different support person that can't understand the last support contacts notes and you have to start all over again and always seem to be given a new and different lame answer. So if you have someone in DishNetwork support that is stating that it is a problem known to Dish, it would be very helpful to others like me that could refer the support person we get to somebody at Dish that Knows It Is a Dish Issue.
Thanks for everybody's help.


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## Rduce

pghag1693 said:


> RDUCE can you supply the DishTech support contact IDentifier that you have been working with. As you know each time you call you get a different support person that can't understand the last support contacts notes and you have to start all over again and always seem to be given a new and different lame answer. So if you have someone in DishNetwork support that is stating that it is a problem known to Dish, it would be very helpful to others like me that could refer the support person we get to somebody at Dish that Knows It Is a Dish Issue.
> Thanks for everybody's help.


I do not have any name or ID, I did it over CHAT Tech Support well over 2 weeks ago. I know it was a level 2 and I went into great detail with them as I had done a great deal of study on the problem before I contacted them. I was told the information I gave was going to HELP. My problem seems to only occur if I have a timer event scheduled within 3 or 4 hours after the nightly update. I was told they have had reports of it and are working on it, apparently it is not a wide spread problem.


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## mcarreiro

Since my last report,


I once again lost the DVR fuction.
No combination of resets would restore it. (even swapped usb cables)
It reappeared magically yesterday.
After watching real-time for a couple of hours, I suddenly had a message box appear saying the usb drive had been disconnected and the receiver was restarting.
I was again without DVR function and unable to restore it.

It's refreshing to hear that Dish may be aware of the problem. The random reappearance of the function does seem to indicate something is being done in the background. It's too bad they can't get the word out to the techs. The last one I talked to sounded like he was the "real thing" and yet had no idea on a possible history to the problem.

"Reduce", is what I'm seeing exactly what you're reporting? How far back was the last software download?

-Mike-


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## P Smith

I would make a few tests on PC first before blame the DVR. Possible point of failures: connectors, cables, power supply, infernal guts of the enclosure (SATA/USB controller), the disk itself.


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## Rduce

mcarreiro said:


> Since my last report,
> 
> 
> I once again lost the DVR fuction.
> No combination of resets would restore it. (even swapped usb cables)
> It reappeared magically yesterday.
> After watching real-time for a couple of hours, I suddenly had a message box appear saying the usb drive had been disconnected and the receiver was restarting.
> I was again without DVR function and unable to restore it.
> 
> It's refreshing to hear that Dish may be aware of the problem. The random reappearance of the function does seem to indicate something is being done in the background. It's too bad they can't get the word out to the techs. The last one I talked to sounded like he was the "real thing" and yet had no idea on a possible history to the problem.
> 
> "Reduce", is what I'm seeing exactly what you're reporting? How far back was the last software download?
> 
> -Mike-


Your problem does not sound like the one I am having. Mine seems to be that if I schedule a timer event after to the nightly update, then after the update the 211 does not see the EHD or sees it as an unsupported size. A soft reboot will return the DVR function. If I don't set a timer event it is a happy camper and will see the EHD after the nightly update.


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## pghag1693

P Smith said:


> I would make a few tests on PC first before blame the DVR. Possible point of failures: connectors, cables, power supply, infernal guts of the enclosure (SATA/USB controller), the disk itself.


Format of the EHD/DVR for Vip211 is different than a PC formated EHD. 
Format for Vip211 destroys PC ability to see or read EHD and vice versa. 
Also, have two Vip211 receivers each with dedicated EHD that act the same. Issue is with Vip211 receivers and DVR function being lost by the receiver during nightly updates, power loss, etc. Vip211 eventually sees the EHD and works as DVR, but only after numerous front panel button resets.


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## P Smith

pghag1693 said:


> Format of the EHD/DVR for Vip211 is different than a PC formated EHD.
> Format for Vip211 destroys PC ability to see or read EHD and vice versa.
> ...


Where you did read the word "format" ? 
As to what format 211 EHD and how to read it on PC (!) using Linux without "destroys" - search for my old posts.


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## mcarreiro

I had a chat session yesterday on the Dish support site. The tech was very cordial, listened to the details of the problem. He said he had not heard of it before. He submitted a report to engineering and hopefully we'll have a response in a day or two. He did say that the latest software was downloaded "at the end of July", about the time my problem cropped up.

*pghag1693*, it's refreshing to hear that you're seeing similar behavior on your ViP211s. Are you using Seagate Showcase drives, as well? Lately I've been giving up after about three front panel resets. Should I just keep resetting until the thing listens to me?

-Mike-


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## mcarreiro

P Smith said:


> I would make a few tests on PC first before blame the DVR. Possible point of failures: connectors, cables, power supply, infernal guts of the enclosure (SATA/USB controller), the disk itself.


I did try a couple of usb external drives I use on my PCs and the receiver still doesn't recognize them. The receiver acts as numbly as it would if it had not had the feature activated by Dish. Initially (months ago) I had it activated, plugged in the dvr, received format request, etc., and things were fine until a month or so back when this problem begain. While anything is possible, I went with the Showcase drive specifically to avoid the issues you mention.

-Mike-


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## P Smith

Would you try different enclosure, like Antec MX-1 with same disk ? That would point to SATA/USB controller issue.


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## mcarreiro

P Smith said:


> Would you try different enclosure, like Antec MX-1 with same disk? That would point to SATA/USB controller issue.


I'd really hate to pull the Showcase drive apart at this point. With at least one other person on the forum seeing the same behavior on two of his ViP211s, I think I'll hang in for a while to see what Dish has to say.

Really though, wouldn't you think that my trying two other complete external USB drives with neither even being recognized by the receiver would pretty much point to a receiver issue? One of the drives I put together is an IDE/USB configuration. The other is an Iomega "packaged" USB external (don't know the controller/drive combo). Between all three drives you would think one of them would at least tickle the receiver. Your thoughts are much appreciated and I may very well get down and dirty if this issue drags on.

-Mike-


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## P Smith

That would be pretty easy/valuable test for me. 
Add to that using BlacX device for many different model/sizes disks with 211 with all versions without a problem tell me why I want to see results of such tests on your DVR.


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## mcarreiro

Breakthrough???

The Showcase drive is well within warrantee, so I was hesitant to go pulling it apart. I figured there's nothing to lose getting Seagate involved. I went to their online chat page and presented the problem. The tech simply shot back that I should run their diags on the drive and get back to them (*P Smith *smiling at this point). I downloaded their "Seatools" to my primary PC. I plugged the drive into the PC and received the message that I'd get better performance from the device if I used a 2.0 port&#8230;"click here to see the available ports". Well the PC has only USB 2.0 with 8 ports. I clicked the balloon and it showed the 8 ports unused. The drive passed basic diags but I could not access S.M.A.R.T. data.

I logged back on to Seagate and presented what I found, asking if the strange 2.0 vs. 1.1 USB recognition may be significant. The tech responded immediately, "At this point I would suggest replacing the Showcase." (Big smile on *P Smith's *face at this point)

I'm taking advantage of their Advanced Replacement option @ $19.99. They send the replacement 2-day air, along with prepaid return packaging and label. Unfortunately I'll be on the road until next week so we'll have to wait a bit for the outcome.

Very strange how a drive could present itself in such a way as to have the PC inaccurately sense its own USB configuration. Who knows what the ViP211 could be thinking?

-Mike-


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## P Smith

Glad you found my 'push' was helpful. It's just a lot of my own (first hand) experience in the area (IT and engineering) what kick me for doing that.


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## pghag1693

In Reply to your post [post=2191346]2191346[/post]


mcarreiro said:


> *pghag1693*, it's refreshing to hear that you're seeing similar behavior on your ViP211s. Are you using Seagate Showcase drives, as well? Lately I've been giving up after about three front panel resets. Should I just keep resetting until the thing listens to me?
> -Mike-


Yes, went the safe route and used the 500GB Seagate Showcase EHDrives to avoid the "well we haven't tested with xxx drives and don't know whether they are compatabile or not. You'll need to call xxx drive manufacturer for support." issue I would expect from flow chart tech support and get caught in the middle of a 3 way finger pointing contest. As it turns out Vip211 tech support doesn't even have the only Dish recommended Showcase drives on hand to test with, they are using another brand standard PC EHD and are trying to obtain the Dish Compatable Showcase drive in to test with. I upgraded to the Vip211s in early May and had no problem whatsoever until mid-late July just like you. Initially, I lost the EHD/DVR funtion during the nightly update, but was able to recover each day with one power button front panel reset and it was good until the next nightly update, then repeat next day. Approx in last 10-14 days it has gotten to where I can't get a recovery no matter how many times in the AM, but can get a recovery between about noon and 6PM with 2-6 resets. I have two Vip211s purchased same time each with same 500GB Showcase drive purchased same time, that worked fine for same amount of time and started loosing EHD/DVR function same time and reset difficulty progressing in same matter. A dish technician came out and could find nothing wrong and found conditions exactly as I stated and so wrote up on the wasted Dish tech call sheet. Dish had me upload my Vip211 receiver logs via the receivers built in ethernet connection. They only wanted the logs uploaded after the receiver was in a working with the Showcase EHD as a DVR state. To me I would want to see the receiver logs when they are in a not functioning state to determine if the receiver thinks it is supposed to be seeing the EHD or thinks it is not authorized since the loss occurs with the nightly update but the Dish Software engineering did not think that was logical. Too simple? Who knew?


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## pghag1693

P Smith said:


> Where you did read the word "format" ?
> As to what format 211 EHD and how to read it on PC (!) using Linux without "destroys" - search for my old posts.


I did not read the word format in your post. I do read it in my post and I will tell you and that you may read it in the Dish literature for the Vip211 that if you connect a PC formatted EHD to the Vip211 it will be re-FORMAT-ed into the read/write to EHD hard drive that is proprietary to Dish and vice versa if you connect your Dish receiver FORMAT-ed drive to a PC, the PC will not be able to read it until you re-FORMAT the EHD to PC format. 
Search my old post and search the old Dish literature specifications.


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## P Smith

Ah, that's Dish propaganda ... I do control all my computers, not the dish.


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## mcarreiro

The new Showcase drive will be here tomorrow. I'll be on the road 'till Monday, so it will have to wait.

But,
I had DVR function last night when I turned the receiver on. This morning it's gone again. I also notice the receiver is tuned to the Dish info channel when powered up today. Yesterday (had DVR) it powered up to the previously tuned channel. I'm starting to fear that this daily dowload/reset/authorization thing has some merit in the argument. The new drive may not help. Paranoid....

-Mike-


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## mcarreiro

I’m back home and found the replacement Seagate Showcase drive waiting for me. Yesterday, I plugged it in to my receiver, which at the time was not recognizing the old drive. The new drive was immediately recognized. I cancelled the format operation and tried the old drive one last time. It was not recognized. I went back to the new drive and it was “format time”. Everything is fine up to this moment. We’ll see…

Whatever the outcome, I must give Seagate Customer Service a gold star for their handling of this issue (to this point).


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## P Smith

The site is full of information about EHD format [EXT3] and access to its content from Windows [UFS Explorer, etc], perhaps you just start posting here without searching and reading. Sad things happening.


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## mcarreiro

Mr. Smith,

I'm guessing that you're scolding me for initiating this thread without doing my homework beforehand. If you are not, I apologize.

I indeed did my searching and reading beforehand. I think a search on keywords, Seagate, Showcase, Vip211, DVR, etc. that came up negative is appropriate enough to allow me to initiate a thread on the issue. Besides prompting your valuable input, we found another who had precisely the same issues as I had. Most users are not as intimate as you with the innards of the hardware involved, and must deal on the assembly level. We had two vendors and two pieces of equipment. One piece was at fault and the vendor remedied the problem immediately. All good news&#8230;

Bottom line, if someone now does their "searching and reading" on this specific issue they will find some direction in this thread.

Again, if I misread your intention in the last post, I apologize.

Mike
*
P.S. Everything has been running flawlessly since the Showcase drive was replaced.*


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## P Smith

Glad to hear about the happy end.


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## InTheAir

Is the Showcase replacement is still working properly after several months of use? I am currently having the exact same problems you described in the being of this thread, and have performed the same diagnostics you did, and am currently weighing my options for replacement of the Showcase drive.


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## mcarreiro

InTheAir said:


> Is the Showcase replacement is still working properly after several months of use? I am currently having the exact same problems you described in the being of this thread, and have performed the same diagnostics you did, and am currently weighing my options for replacement of the Showcase drive.


The replacement is running fine after a couple of months. *But please review the thread on Seagate pulling the Showcase and replacing it with a couple of standard external drives.*

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168516

I went through two Showcase drives, both failing in the same manner.
Their replacement has been fine, and I now have a spare on the shelf.


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