# TCMHD or is it?



## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

Is it just me or are others disappointed with the PQ of "2001" on TCMHD? The Encore version shown last month looked sharper even though not in correct AR. Still happy to have TCMHD and I'm sure they'll improve. " Anne Frank" looked very good Monday night.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

The info that I've seen says that at this time TCM HD is 100% upconverts.


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## Don M (Jul 1, 2006)

Dish97 said:


> Is it just me or are others disappointed with the PQ of "2001" on TCMHD? The Encore version shown last month looked sharper even though not in correct AR. Still happy to have TCMHD and I'm sure they'll improve. " Anne Frank" looked very good Monday night.


When I toggle back and forth between the SD and HD signals for TCM I see no difference. The picture is very fuzzy on both. When I go to other HD movie channels on DISH the picture is sharp and clear. The picture on Close Encounters was hardly worth watching. I hope this is just a temporary technical glitch, because I have been looking forward to TCM in HD.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

At first I thought it was bogus. I thought the picture was better on SD than on HD, after looking back and forth.

But then I just watched Farenheit 451. In SD, it was shown letterbox which I had to zoom to have it fill the screen. Although the picture was good in zoomed SD, it couldn't hold a candle to the excellent widescreen picture in HD.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

This is the story with many new "HD" Channels.

Give them 3-6 months and they'll start getting HD material up.

This is why I do not get excited about new HD channels, I already have more than I can watch.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

I will say the sound is better on TCM HD, than TCM SD. By the way, "The Adventures of Robin Hood" looked much better on the HD feed late yesterday. Pretty good for a movie made in 1938. 

As for "2001" the other night, I think TCM is still getting their HD feet wet. Also, there is no mention on TCM that they even have an HD feed. At least TCM, is showing wide screen movies that are filling teh screen, instead of some channels like SyFy who do not even bother and place a large black box an obvious 16x9 format show or movie. Or, what happened a few weeks ago in RetroPlax when they showed "The Greatest Story Every Told" (filmed in Panavision or similar formats) which took up a small part of the screen surrounded in black. Efforts to make the picture bigger had it taking up 1/3 of the screen. 

Finally, many of the movies on TCM have been restored and digitized. But, many more have not. And a fuzzy movie will still look fuzzy if it is in HD, SD or projected on a screen. "The Adventures of Robin Hood" is one of those movies which was restored and digitized and if was very apparent yesterday what can be accomplished. TCM is HD is a plus especially for wide screen movies. I would like to see how "Ben Hur" looks whn they choose to show it in HD.


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## RLMesq (Mar 9, 2003)

nmetro said:


> Finally, many of the movies on TCM have been restored and digitized. But, many more have not. And a fuzzy movie will still look fuzzy if it is in HD, SD or projected on a screen.


In addition, keep in mind that TCM has been around for more than 15 years and most of its extensive library was transferred to an SD format long before there was an HD standard.

You won't get an HD picture from programming recorded in SD format, period. That would be like burning a VHS tape to a DVD and expecting a better picture than the native VHS. Ain't gonna happen.

In order to get true HD programming, all of the old films will have to be transferred again, this time to a native HD format. Sounds like quite an undertaking to me.


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

n0qcu said:


> The info that I've seen says that at this time TCM HD is 100% upconverts.


The only thing I've seen so far in "HD" on TCM was _Fahrenheit 451_ this past weekend. On the HD feed it was 16:9 and it was letterboxed on the SD feed. Usually both feeds look the same.


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## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

Wish I had caught "Fahrenheit 451". Most seemed to be pleased with the presentation. Agree that the audio quality much improved. Yes, the Retroplex showing of "The Greatest Story..." was awful. As was "Exodus". "Greatest Story" did appear on MGMHD last month early one morning. Was an excellent widescreen HD print. Someone must have fallen asleep in the control room because the film was not interrupted for a commercial. They do a great job with the transfers but the commercials and running banners make that channel unwatchable. And one of the few recordings I have left from the Voom days is a beautiful widescreen copy of "Exodus". Anxious to see what TCMHD does with the very wide "Oklahoma" next week.


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## nicedeboy26 (Jul 27, 2007)

Its like the channel, Logo HD. The channel has NO HD programming but for some reason... Dish, itself, upconverts it in HD. Which sucks on my TV screen!


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

nicedeboy26 said:


> Its like the channel, Logo HD. The channel has NO HD programming but for some reason... Dish, itself, upconverts it in HD. Which sucks on my TV screen!


I'd have to agree with the Logo assessment. Why they waste the bandwith instead of having it SD on a lower channel doesn't make sense.


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

Dish97 said:


> Anxious to see what TCMHD does with the very wide "Oklahoma" next week.


It'll be a Todd-AO 2.20:1 letterbox transfer presented in the middle of the screen on the HD feed.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Dish97 said:


> Is it just me or are others disappointed with the PQ of "2001" on TCMHD? The Encore version shown last month looked sharper even though not in correct AR. Still happy to have TCMHD and I'm sure they'll improve. " Anne Frank" looked very good Monday night.


I watched a Fred Astaire movie last night on TCMHD and it wasn't HD. Black side bars also. They need to upgrade their films.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Dish97 said:


> Wish I had caught "Fahrenheit 451". Most seemed to be pleased with the presentation. Agree that the audio quality much improved. Yes, the Retroplex showing of "The Greatest Story..." was awful. As was "Exodus". "Greatest Story" did appear on MGMHD last month early one morning. Was an excellent widescreen HD print. Someone must have fallen asleep in the control room because the film was not interrupted for a commercial. They do a great job with the transfers but the commercials and running banners make that channel unwatchable. And one of the few recordings I have left from the Voom days is a beautiful widescreen copy of "Exodus". Anxious to see what TCMHD does with the very wide "Oklahoma" next week.


MGMHD has promos of upcoming films in the movies. I stopped watching it months ago.


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## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

Paul Secic said:


> I watched a Fred Astaire movie last night on TCMHD and it wasn't HD. Black side bars also. They need to upgrade their films.


Actually any film pre 1953 will have the side bars. No widescreen format so 4X3 is the correct way to display. Checkout blue-ray version of GWTW. What I can't stand are the channels that will not broadcast OAR. And don't get me started on "center-cut".:grrr:


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

I was watching "Meet John Doe" (the 1941 version with Gary Cooper) this morning (5/7/2010 9:00 AM MDT) and TCM HD decided to fill the entire screen and cut off the top and bottom of the picture in order to fill the screen (as opposed to doing stretch-o-vision). Up to now, for non-wide screen movies (movies made before 1953), the TCM practice has been to show black bars right and left of the picture. Hopefully, this was an oversight, because TCM has been very good about providing movies uncut and in their original format presented in theatres.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

I wish everyone would use OAR, BUT as long as the uneducated masses very vocally scream about the picture not filling up their sparkly new 70" behemoth, we film geeks are out of luck.

TBS surveys this from time to time and it always comes back to filling the screen, people do not understand.

Some may remember that TBS created a half hour long special years ago to explain OAR and letterboxing (and they were the only network to do so) using as an example "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" & I believe the other movie was 2001. 

They showed how destructive "pan & scan" was to many movies and why there had to be black bars to preserve the films integrity.

It was very well done but it failed to get people to understand. I am afraid that true OAR will continue to be rare.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Dish97 said:


> Actually any film pre 1953 will have the side bars. No widescreen format so 4X3 is the correct way to display. Checkout blue-ray version of GWTW. What I can't stand are the channels that will not broadcast OAR. And don't get me started on "center-cut".:grrr:


When VOOM was operating I saw "Sarhara" 1943 on Film Fest and it was full screen. I guess it was an oddity.


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## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

nmetro said:


> I was watching "Meet John Doe" (the 1941 version with Gary Cooper) this morning (5/7/2010 9:00 AM MDT) and TCM HD decided to fill the entire screen and cut off the top and bottom of the picture in order to fill the screen (as opposed to doing stretch-o-vision). Up to now, for non-wide screen movies (movies made before 1953), the TCM practice has been to show black bars right and left of the picture. Hopefully, this was an oversight, because TCM has been very good about providing movies uncut and in their original format presented in theatres.


Didn't see it. Sure not the setting on your tv? DVRd "Mr. Deeds.." and currently 
"The Fountainhead". Both 4X3 with black bars.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Mr. Deeds was just in 4x3 with bars on TCM-HD


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## Steve33 (Oct 21, 2009)

I realize they are not pushing HD content yet, But I've been pleased with comparing vs SD channel. The one I thing I noticed right away was the sound level. Fahrenheit 451 looked decent to me, hadn't watched this for years .

Steve


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

When's AMC going to go HD? Mad Men is do to start soon.......


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Dish97 said:


> Didn't see it. Sure not the setting on your tv? DVRd "Mr. Deeds.." and currently
> "The Fountainhead". Both 4X3 with black bars.


Double checked, before I posted. Also, I was going back and forth between the SD and HD variant to notice the picture being cut off. After I posted, the followoing movies were shown with black bars on 4x3 formatted movies.

This could have been an error on TCM or DISH's part; or a test because of complaints about black bars and DISH doing "center cut" to eliminate them. Let's hope it was a mistake, as it will ruin what TCM stands for; uncut movies shown in their original format in order to appease a few people who are too lazy to use their HD DVR screen format button.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

356B said:


> When's AMC going to go HD? Mad Men is do to start soon.......


Not for a very long time due to the VOOM lawsuit.


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## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

nmetro said:


> Let's hope it was a mistake, as it will ruin what TCM stands for; uncut movies shown in their original format


And they seem to be using the OAR. The black bars on "The Lion in Winter" are larger than the black bars on the HDNet Movies broadcast of the same title more than a year ago. Anyway, wether true HD or just "up conversion", a definite improvement over TCMSD. Now if we can only get MGMHD to stop running commercials


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

Watching _Dances With Wolves_ right now. It "appears to be" 2.35:1 on the HD feed but when the Pawnee or Sioux speak the subtitles are below the scan area of the screen and aren't fully visible. Everything looks "normal" (letterboxed) with the subtitles fully visible on the SD feed. My conclusion is that TCM's HD feed attempts to show proper aspect ratio but TCM's telecines are not truly HD.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

DwW looks great; too bad line two of the subtitles can't be read!


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Looks like TMC-HD was fixed in time for the Memorial Day weekend. Movies this weekend so far have been pretty good.


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## Dish97 (Dec 19, 2009)

GrumpyBear said:


> Looks like TMC-HD was fixed in time for the Memorial Day weekend. Movies this weekend so far have been pretty good.


Both "Battleground" & "In Harms Way" looked sharp. Both in B&W. The latter shown 2 years ago on HDNet Movies still better quality. Upconversion v HD.


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

356B said:


> When's AMC going to go HD? Mad Men is do to start soon.......


Just to clarify&#8230;

Note that if you're a Mad Men fan, you know AMC has been sending out an HD channel for years now.

The problem is AMC (and IFC, Sundance and We) are owned by Rainbow Media, who used to own VOOM.

Since DISH and Rainbow are still embroiled in their VOOM lawsuit, the odds of seeing AMC in HD on DISH anytime soon is zero.

I know it doesn't help, but DirecTV doesn't offer AMC HD, either; at present it's cable-only.


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