# Worthless Piece of *$^%



## steve0212 (Oct 23, 2006)

I have never in my life worked with a more buggy piece of electronics. I have had my HR20 for about 3 weeks now. When I first got it, I had the previous software version on it and I had most of the issues noted in this forum. However, it did at least do its most important task for me and that was record. Now, since the latest software update (E3 I believe), I am having all kinds of recording problems. First, I have the well documents Sunday Ticket issue which burns me to no end. Also, now, it is missing all kinds of programs. They show up in the history as Partial. What the hell does that mean?

Fortunately, I have an HR10 and it is reliable enough to record for me with the same season passes. Then (on my HR20), I have some recordings that it actually did record, so I just tried to watch them. I press play and get nothing but a black screen. If I press Pause, FF, RW, Skip Forward or back, nothing moves it. One interesting thing I see on the screen is the text under the bar says "0:-1" (zero - colon - negative one). I tried rebooting the box. Now the shows don't even show up in the list of recorded programs.

I understood that there may be issues, but considering this is a DVR as in digital video *RECORDER*), you would think it could record shows and let me watch them. No offense Earl, but I bought this receiver based, in large part, on your review, and I am greatly regretting that decision now. You need to update your review to reflect all the issues that we are currently using to alert any future buyers that they are really alpha testers (I would not even say this software warrants beta status).

If they do not get this working with the next release, I am calling them and telling them to ship me out an HR10 and I will ship the POS back to them.

They definitely should have ponied up the money to Tivo to continue to use their software.

Lastly, my 2 cents for anyone considering buying this receiver - DON'T DO IT!


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## Alvin Nuckleglazer (Oct 7, 2006)

mine works great. its unfortunate you are having problems with yours.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

steve0212 said:


> Earl, but I bought this receiver based, in large part, on your review, and I am greatly regretting that decision now. You need to update your review to reflect all the issues that we are currently using to alert any future buyers that they are really alpha testers (I would not even say this software warrants beta status).


I am having a hard time finding the right words to express my self.

I understand your frusturation... and I am sorry that the review it self (which I attempted to be as objective as possible about the unit back in August), caused you to purchase the system; and ultimately you are having issues with it...

But there was a link to a discussion thread... which in turn resides in this forum, where there hundreds of threads.

Mine is not the only review like that... CNet's, and the recent one in the Philadelphia paper... are all similar.

I don't know why you are having the issues to the magnitude you are... but there is another software release on the horizon... so all I can ask is wait and see if/how it improves your system.

The HR20 is a good unit... flawed.. but good.
It is not Great, It is not perfect.... In a significant amount of cases.. it does exactly what it is suppose to.
But when it goes bad... it goes bad to the extreme.

The issue with "partial" should be resolved in the next release.
So all we can do is wait and see.


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## soprano_777 (Sep 27, 2006)

It,s Not earls fault I read many reviews and the all seem to praise this box. I just think that it thakes some time for the box to act up. Erl has been the only reason(and afew other great people out there) that I have had a real hard time returning this box, even now after I posted my farwell I hope the governor comes though with a PARDON.


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## junebug (Jun 4, 2006)

It's experiences like steve0212's that's keeping me waiting... I'll continue to enjoy my H20 + Tivo2 setup until the HR20 "POS" (to use steve0212's words) gets its act together. Too bad for DirecTV. Maybe if they diverted a little bit of their marketing money to engineering they'd have a half-decent product.

P.S. As an automotive software engineer, I don't have the luxury of getting by with selling POS. Imagine driving down the road and having your car reboot on you. Doesn't happen.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I
> The HR20 is a good unit... flawed.. but good.
> It is not Great, It is not perfect.... In a significant amount of cases.. it does exactly what it is suppose to.
> But when it goes bad... it goes bad to the extreme.
> ...


Earl, I am with you 99% of the time but I think you are way off this time. If you cant trust the HR20 to record which is it's primary function how can the DVR be "good"? It might be good with some future version of software, but not with the current or past versions. Does the HR20 show potential of being good, yep, but right now it is only potential. There are so many problems:

Unwatchable/Unplayable recordings
-Cant play/ black screen/ trick plays don't work typically a negative time code
Partial History and missing recording bug
-missing recording history shows partial
Full and/or partial interface lockup
-remote stops working or the nav buttons stop working requiring a reboot
771 bug 
-771 message, tuner could be black or it may be working, only work around is to stop recording change channel and change back to the station you were trying to watch/record
- You have to turn Dolby off to turn on DD
Dolby on off reversed

There are probably a couple more I am forgetting

There are so many current problems there is no way this box is good at this point in time. Maybe later but not now.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

On our HR20, when you delete a recording, it still shows in the VOD list for a while. It's actually deleted like it's supposed to, but still shows up in the list for a while. FFW and pausing is still a bit flaky, but not as bad as the last software version. I hope to god that it doesn't start giving us the unwatchable recording problem i have been reading about lately!


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## St Louis Cardinals Fan (Oct 22, 2006)

All I can say it that the H20 that I have is working great. I have recorded HD, SD, and it never misses a beat.
I have only had the system for two weeks but it has worked flawlessly.

I just wish it had the OTA enabled


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I hope to god that it doesn't start giving us the unwatchable recording problem i have been reading about lately!


Unwatchable recordings suck. I have had them on MPEG2, MEG4 HD and the SD programming. My last unwatchable one was the Wed South Park on Comedy Central. There is just no rhyme or reason to why they happen but it sucks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

btmoore said:


> Earl, I am with you 99% of the time but I think you are way off this time. If you cant trust the HR20 to record which is it's primary function how can the DVR be "good"? It might be good with some future version of software, but not with the current or past versions. Does the HR20 show potential of being good, yep, but right now it is only potential. There are so many problems:
> 
> Unwatchable/Unplayable recordings
> -Cant play/ black screen/ trick plays don't work typically a negative time code
> ...


Again... do users have issues? yes... 
All those things you listed are real...

But do they happen to everyone? No... Just like there are people that have issues with Computers, and other don't... That is probably the #1 most frustrating thing about this... not everyone has the issues.

Those 4 issues you have listed, have DRASTICALLY reduced in the volume that they have been reported... Sure people may have simply stopped reporting them, but then again... On my systems, which is the only two I can definitively verify against... I have seen those issues you listed in a long while... most certainly not in the current release.

Does that mean they are fixed? Once and for all? no... because someone else has had the issue...


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## ktabel01 (Aug 19, 2006)

The 771 error was nonexistent before the current software update. It is constantly present on my receiver. So I have an HD receiver that can't receive HD, good times. VERY eagerly awaiting an update, but for the meantime this thing is worthless.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Again... do users have issues? yes...
> All those things you listed are real...
> 
> But do they happen to everyone? No... Just like there are people that have issues with Computers, and other don't... That is probably the #1 most frustrating thing about this... not everyone has the issues.
> ...


I can confirm and I have posted pictures of some of them that they are in the current release of the software. In your own posts you have acknowledge that D* knows there are bugs, in particularly you have stated that the Partial bug should be addressed in the next release. That means everyone has the bug, they just may not have hit the condition that causes that bug to present. Some of us hit that bug all the time. For me it has been 5 days, but the unwatchable bug poped up 2 days ago.

The comparison to a general purpose computer is a red herring, this is not a general purpose computer, it is a closed system specific purpose machine with an embedded operating system. They control everything, in PCs you control most everything, and that is where most problems come from.

IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.


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## matto (Sep 1, 2006)

btmoore said:


> IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.


even cnet did that, and they're not so much journalists as press release reformatters


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## soprano_777 (Sep 27, 2006)

I Know that I have no right to speak because I haven't activatide my box but in fareness to Earl Down here in Fla. there are peoplewho have had all these problems, and people that I've talked to face to face that think the box is the best! Thats why when I see how fast it sells out that I hesitated in returnnging it. But to be fare to you also I can't live with abox that just don"t do what its supose to do. I just don<t know why one box has issues and the house right next door has NONE! Just don't know?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

btmoore said:


> IMO you should put a caveat in your review, that many people are having problems and that D* has informed you that they are actively working on fixing this thing, as you stated in one of your other posts. That way people are not making bad decision based on reading your review. It would be the fair thing to do.


So be it... I have added a note to the first post in the thread.
That the unit has recieved multiple software release, and that readers should spend the time looking in the forum for more current information..

And most specifically they should review the current release thread.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

soprano_777 said:


> I Know that I have no right to speak because I haven't activatide my box but in fareness to Earl Down here in Fla. there are peoplewho have had all these problems, and people that I've talked to face to face that think the box is the best! Thats why when I see how fast it sells out that I hesitated in returnnging it. But to be fare to you also I can't live with abox that just don"t do what its supose to do. I just don<t know why one box has issues and the house right next door has NONE! Just don't know?


Exactly.... and there in lies the problem...

All you can do is take the information you have... and use it to help you make a decision.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Exactly.... and there in lies the problem...
> All you can do is take the information you have... and use it to help you make a decision.


Earl, I hope everyone realizes that you can only review the box you have, not all of them.

In fact, back when people got their reviews from magazines, most of them would not review defective units at all, with the idea that if the customer got a bad one, he would exchange it. Therefore, no point in reviewing buggy units.

You're doing a great job of walking a fine line, Earl, and we appreciate it.


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## mjs31 (Sep 22, 2006)

I am always amazed that people who go and buy the first batch of a new electronic device get so angry when it has bugs. Come on folks. The first bunch to buy any of these devices tend to be beta testers of sorts. If you cannot take this then dont buy anything until you know the bugs are worked out.
Anyone that expects something new to work perfectly is naive.

Yes...I am frustrated as well with some bugs, but I am also one of the people that likes the newest gadgets out there and realize my lack of patience in purchasing it could cause me headaches until the bugs get worked out.


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## Rugged (Sep 16, 2006)

I'll be honest...I bought this box back in Sept when it first came out and I knew there were bugs but I wanted an HD DVR and D* wasn't giving out HR10s. I've had most of the same problems that everyone has reported here and I think each new release improves the functionality drastically so I can't really complain because I knew what I was getting into. 

Anyone who spends about 5 minutes scanning this message board will realize that this machine isn't a TIVO and isn't perfect but it has benefits/improvements too. The more time I spend using the machine-the better I like it. I'm not ready to recommend this box to my family because they don't have the patience that I have but eventually things will get straigtened out.

Overall, I'm happy and it certainly isn't anyone elses fault if you aren't happy.


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## Starrbuck (Jun 25, 2004)

Remember, too, people, it's only television. If you miss this week's _Survivor_, the world still spins around and the sun will still come up tomorrow. Chill out.


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## Vinny (Sep 2, 2006)

Starrbuck said:


> Remember, too, people, it's only television. If you miss this week's _Survivor_, the world still spins around and the sun will still come up tomorrow. Chill out.


I firmly believe that not every problem that is blamed on the HR20 is in fact an HR20 issue. There are so many other variables between receving the signal from the satelite and seeing a picture on your TV. From connectors, cables, switches, filters, HDMI software in 100's of different brands of TV, etc, etc. Sometimes the least likely place to look is where the problem lies. But it's always easier to blame the newest piece of the puzzle.


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## KungFool (Sep 12, 2006)

I just have to say:

Had the unit for 2 months...works great. Had a few problems along the way...probably 3 or 4 bad recordings (out of hundreds), HD works great, MPEG4 or MPEG2, everything looks/plays good. No missed recordings.

There is room for improvement, but I really don't get these threads calling it a worthless POS....works great for me.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Vinny said:


> I firmly believe that not every problem that is blamed on the HR20 is in fact an HR20 issue. There are so many other variables between receving the signal from the satelite and seeing a picture on your TV. From connectors, cables, switches, filters, HDMI software in 100's of different brands of TV, etc, etc. Sometimes the least likely place to look is where the problem lies. But it's always easier to blame the newest piece of the puzzle.


and let's all be honest here. I have often times been guilty of causing the dreaded:

I D 10 T error.

My guess is that I am not alone.

(Like the time I was getting a blank screen while my unit's record light was on and I was about ready to throw a fit until I realized it was OFF.)


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## burnside (Oct 9, 2006)

I so far am happy with my HR20 (got it 2 weeks ago). I've had one black screened recording and sometimes the trick play isn't all there, but other than that it has been flawless. Compared to my Tivo, I like the HR20 better because the menus do not take you away from watching tv and there seems to be less "clicks" when executing a function (ex. recording a show takes one click). That being said, if my HR20 was consistently not recording or misbehaving in any other way, I'd be very upset.

Some posters have said, hey, it's just a show that didn't record, take it easy. I'm way on the side of those saying that it's a PVR, it's supposed to record! Exactly. You don't buy a car so that after driving it home, you can't drive back out of your garage. This is a recorder and should record every time, no questions asked. I feel for those having the consistent recording problems because they really should not be going through this. There are absolutely no excuses. Having to wait for the next software release is not an excuse. You are paying $50-$100 a month just for the tv programming alone. If you cannot watch a show you recorded because of the HR20, then D* needs to definitely compensate that customer or exchange their HR20.

Finally, this has nothing to do with Earl. He is helping everyone out and his review of the HR20 highlighted the great features of the product. The other threads in this forum have given us after thoughts on the product and what we should watch out for. In the end, I think it's obvious now - get the HR20, but you have been warned. Wait for the HR20 and you may have less frustration. As for me, I got the HR20 at a time when I thought the problems were getting ironed out for the most part. I expected a few things to go wrong, but I have a back up system. I knew what I was getting into, so I personally am not upset, but instead happy with my decision. I will reiterate though, D* should have never put out this product. If Tivo gave them a unit like this back in the day, they would be suing Tivo by now. The case that it is D* with their own unit, everything seems rushed and excused with a "don't worry, it will be fixed soon".


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Kind of reminds me of that Verizon commercial (though talking with a DVR crowd, maybe nobody will know what I'm talking about ) where all the cardboard people topple like dominoes and the guy says "yes, that is a problem and we are working on it".

I am sticking with my HR20 as I have not had as many problems as some of the posters, but how much longer will we be waiting until they get the basic functionality working properly?


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Vinny said:


> I firmly believe that not every problem that is blamed on the HR20 is in fact an HR20 issue. There are so many other variables between receving the signal from the satelite and seeing a picture on your TV. From connectors, cables, switches, filters, HDMI software in 100's of different brands of TV, etc, etc. Sometimes the least likely place to look is where the problem lies. But it's always easier to blame the newest piece of the puzzle.


I tend to agree with you that not ever problem is the fault of the HR20, sort of. It seems that the HR20 is overly sensitive to signal strength, and so using inferior cabling may cause your signal stregth to fluxuate and cause problems. The way your TV communicates with the HR20 via HDMI causes problems, etc, etc.

In the end though, it seems that the HR20 is hypersensitive to variables within a system. To that end, I think that the HR20 does deserve at least some of the blame for the problems being experienced. My Tivo box doesn't blow up if I disconnect the cable or lose signal in a storm.

So while I agree that there are variables within the users AV system that may lend to the instability of the HR20, in the end, D* needs to get the box to a point where it's stable enough to handle those variables without blowing it's own brains out.


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

Hmmm!! Sort of sounds like the R15 forum.:sure:


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## Vinny (Sep 2, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> .....So while I agree that there are variables within the users AV system that may lend to the instability of the HR20, in the end, D* needs to get the box to a point where it's stable enough to handle those variables without blowing it's own brains out.


I am in total agreement!


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## mcl (Aug 17, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> So while I agree that there are variables within the users AV system that may lend to the instability of the HR20, in the end, D* needs to get the box to a point where it's stable enough to handle those variables without blowing it's own brains out.


Excuse me? The only bidirectional communications channel in anyone's AV system that gets connected to the HR20 is HDMI (unless you count the phone line, but let's not go there, as it's REQUIRED by D*, and if the phone line is causing these problems, this box doesn't need to be recalled, it needs to be burned, crushed, ridiculed, painted ugly colors, and shot into the heart of the sun).

And there are plenty of people having problems with the HR20 who aren't using HDMI.

Unless connecting a component cable or audio cable can cause my DVR to decide to stop recording or refuse to record. Or not FF properly. Or screw up DST. Or freeze. Or have audio drop-outs. Or not RR predictably. Or not respond to remote commands. Or lose guide data. Or cancel recordings.

Sure, there could be a cold solder joint or short in those connectors. But on that many boxes? That's not a problem, that's a fire hazard and a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. It also wouldn't cause that many subtle bugs, unless this thing was designed by terminal-stage syphillitic yaks high on wombat excreta.


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## snewo (Sep 30, 2006)

junebug said:


> It's experiences like steve0212's that's keeping me waiting... I'll continue to enjoy my H20 + Tivo2 setup until the HR20 "POS" (to use steve0212's words) gets its act together. Too bad for DirecTV. Maybe if they diverted a little bit of their marketing money to engineering they'd have a half-decent product.
> 
> P.S. As an automotive software engineer, I don't have the luxury of getting by with selling POS. Imagine driving down the road and having your car reboot on you. Doesn't happen.


As someone who worked in an automotive electronics manufacturing facility that produced electronic engine controllers all I have to say to that last P.S. is that we've had our problems too. Whether it's a faulty component, poor engineering design of the circuit, or a software problem it's all happened to us. Car reboot? no.....car stall and won't start? Yup.

There's a reason all of our EECs can be reprogrammed through the use of an external connector. Because it's been needed in the past and will be needed again in the future.

Snewo


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## bcowan12 (Oct 4, 2006)

steve0212 said:


> If they do not get this working with the next release, I am calling them and telling them to ship me out an HR10 and I will ship the POS back to them.


I spent a fair bit of time to trade this turkey for a used HR10 the day after I got it almost 2 months ago. No luck. I don't know what they're doing with the exchanged HR10's, but they won't let the customers have them.

I came home from a week vacation last night to find it hadn't recorded about 30% of its ToDo list. Some shows don't matter. On others, like Lost, you lose the story line. For some things I don't mind being a beta tester -- for this I do.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

When the R15 came out, it came out with dozens more issues than the HR20 has ever had. But when the HR20 came out, I was very hesitant given the track record with the R15 (I know that the programming of each comes from different companies) to go for the HR20 and am I glad I waited. If I were so lucky to receive a POS unit, I could not stand it and the WAF (wife acceptance factor) would be less than zero. However, I am pleased with the progress that is being made with the HR20 and I fully expect to order one after the prime time season ends next year. I need a DVR that I don't have to babysit and that I can count on to record the shows that I want. 

Short story, I had a friend (now a D* TiVo customer) that was a Dish customer. His morning ritual included checking the Dish DVR to do list to see if the programs he wanted to record for the day were scheduled to record. If this wasn't frustrating enough, this would not guarantee that those shows would be recorded.


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## bcowan12 (Oct 4, 2006)

judson_west said:


> Short story, I had a friend (now a D* TiVo customer) that was a Dish customer. His morning ritual included checking the Dish DVR to do list to see if the programs he wanted to record for the day were scheduled to record. If this wasn't frustrating enough, this would not guarantee that those shows would be recorded.


That's my "ritual" for the HR20. It's a little better now with not scheduling things, but has recently got a LOT worse for failing to record programs that ARE scheduled. I long for the borderline stability of 2 weeks ago -- somebody should be fired for the state of the current software version.


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## chicagojim (Sep 13, 2006)

Having been on the short end of a deployment, I really looked at the alternatives out there to replace the HR20:

The new TiVo unit is UNGODLY expensive and not working much better.

Dish wanted an unreal fee for hookup of seven units and has their own problems too.

I had to make the decision to either stop punnishing myself and DirecTV for being an early adopter of this technology and walk away or stick with the unit,wait it out and see what DTV considers to be the "Done" product. Only then could I consider whether or not I got shafted by this product and DTV.

Yes, I have lost recordings. Yes I am tired of resetting the box occasionally. But this unit has gotten a ton better with the last two software updates.

Not just a little better, a lot better.

Anyway, I knew what I was getting myself into primarily because of the information in this forum. _And you all did too._ So, I took a breather for about a week before I posted again and tried to gain some objectivity about the situation. Since I got the box in September, I figured 90 days should be enough to allow for the major bugs to get fixed. So, we will see where we are at the end of the year. I am willing to bet that most of us will be whining about future features we want and not about bugs. 

This debugging cycle is not unique - ever checked to see how many Windows XP patches you have on your system? :lol:


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## dagztwo3 (Jun 8, 2006)

For the most part, this DVR works okay. It's just that it seems to malfunction at the most inpportune times. 

My wife's Greys Anatomy has been canceled twice as well as her Desperate Housewives once (which is her equivalent to my football).

During the Bears game yesterday, the screen went blank and the DVR wouldn't respond to any commands from the remote. I had to do the good ole unplug-replug reboot and it finally worked. At least the only thing I missed was another Grossman interception!


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## bgartz (Jun 24, 2006)

I really am surprised by how many people have had problems with the unit. I have had mine since late September, and only had to initiate a hard reset twice. I only ever lost 1 recording, and that was the first day I had it.

Is the unit perfect? No. But I do enjoy it, and I find its User Interface better than my HR10.


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## gymj22 (Aug 20, 2006)

Starrbuck said:


> Remember, too, people, it's only television. If you miss this week's _Survivor_, the world still spins around and the sun will still come up tomorrow. Chill out.


Oh boy . . . you don't want to start making comments like that. If the wrong people get wind of this, you'll disappear! :bonk1: Really, from reading pages and pages of this stuff, what most irritates people (boils their blood) is that the box should be counted on to do its basic function; not that they lost LOST.


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## tjbtexas (Nov 3, 2006)

Just wanted to add my two cents.

I have always been after the latest in what is out there to be tried. Had a HDTV prior to HD Signals out there. Had to have the HR10 the minute that you could buy one online $1000. hell, I paid 900 dollars for my first 1 lnb/1 reciever DirecTV setup. earlier adopters accept "with notice" that things are going to be rocky at first. We dive into these things knowing issues will be there. We just hope that they won't be the big bad ones that tend to ruin your day.

Most people that have jumped on the HR20 wagon are not new to the DVR space. Most have been early adopters of TIVO as well. How many issues have there been as those platforms matured. Same stuff HDMI, Audio Drops, Scheduling, tuners not working. As mature as they are the 6.3a release is creating all kinds of problems.

Are there issues, of course. Do we believe that they will be fixed through software updates yes ( And I have to say that DTV is getting them out at lightening speed compared to DirecTIVO updates).

In some cases the problems are known and can be related to particular configurations or usage patterns. Earlier Adopters need to be willing to adjust their configurations when posible that produce better results, while waiting on updates that address particular issues.

DTV needs to continue to release improvements with an eye to testing. faster delivery means less regression testing. As we get closer to stability, the release cycles need to lengthen a bit to allow for much more testing.

Remember, DTV puts these out there because we want them (look at the backorders). Constructive and Detailed comments of our experiences will make the product better for all.

If it is all too much and you don't have an absolute need of the HR20(e.g. HD lil), use the the Mpeg2 solutions.

If our biggest problems in life are getting our Sat DVR's to record High Def so we can watch it on our BIG Screen TVs, how bad have we got it?

I have come to rely on forums such as this one to obtain the valuable information in using many of Todays electronics, sifting though the POS and DAMN DTV...comments and threads is not all that helpful.

its all good


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

I really object to the tone of your post....it is entirely too reasonable and doesn't really fit the milieu of these forums.  Clean up your act, will ya?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> If our biggest problems in life are getting our Sat DVR's to record High Def so we can watch it on our BIG Screen TVs, how bad have we got it?


I posted comments to that effect last week and got flamed so badly by a crowd of the usual suspects that the Mods had to lock it. Good luck; I hope you have your fire-proof suit on. :lol:


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## islesfan44 (Oct 18, 2006)

steve0212 said:


> I have never in my life worked with a more buggy piece of electronics. I have had my HR20 for about 3 weeks now. When I first got it, I had the previous software version on it and I had most of the issues noted in this forum. However, it did at least do its most important task for me and that was record. Now, since the latest software update (E3 I believe), I am having all kinds of recording problems. First, I have the well documents Sunday Ticket issue which burns me to no end. Also, now, it is missing all kinds of programs. They show up in the history as Partial. What the hell does that mean?
> 
> Fortunately, I have an HR10 and it is reliable enough to record for me with the same season passes. Then (on my HR20), I have some recordings that it actually did record, so I just tried to watch them. I press play and get nothing but a black screen. If I press Pause, FF, RW, Skip Forward or back, nothing moves it. One interesting thing I see on the screen is the text under the bar says "0:-1" (zero - colon - negative one). I tried rebooting the box. Now the shows don't even show up in the list of recorded programs.
> 
> ...


Just the point I tried to make, but I just got nasty replies. Better luck to you my friend...

The unit is getting much better, but it still has fatal flaws. Hopefully, with regular patches, it will be as reliable as my old TiVo by 2012.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> I posted comments to that effect last week and got flamed so badly by a crowd of the usual suspects that the Mods had to lock it. Good luck; I hope you have your fire-proof suit on. :lol:


Sometimes.....it's not _what_ one says, but_ how_ one says it.

Simply having a minimal understanding of the english language and being aware of how it can affect those around us, can easily diffuse a potential negative experience before it even begins.

*Example A:*
Sorry to hear you're having problems...thus far,_ I've _not experienced any at all and I'd give the unit a top grade!

*Example B:*:nono2: 
Well, _I've _never had a problem, if you're unhappy maybe you should switch to cable, bedwetter.

*Example C:* :nono2: 
Well, _I've _never had a problem, but what's the big deal...it's _only_ TV. _I_ have planter's warts.

*Example D:* :nono2: 
Do you have the unit plugged in Poindexter?

_Miss Manners_ chooses example A....the way that you choose to respond is entirely up to you, but it can make all the difference if you choose wisely.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

I tried not to post in this kind of thread but I thought I would share my experience.

I had two HR20 since September, one of the earlier adopters. I have had some common problems like many others, such as missing recording, failure to playback, pixelation, unplayable partial recording, and insufficient padding. Among all the problems, I am most annoyed by the clicking noises from both machines. But by and large, I am happy with my HR20s, and have gradually relied on them as my main units. Through all this time, I never deactivated my HR10. My HR10 in October and can't no longer receive new programming.

In my personal experience, the HR10 only lasted 10 months for me. I don't know if my HR20 is going to last longer than that, but so far, my HR20 hasn't committed worse fault than my HR10.

I can't claim my machines work falwlessly like some users, here. I have experienced many problems like many. Somehow, I haven't got mad at HR-20. I don't think it is a POS. By and large, I actually like it. No buyer remorse here.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> Simply having a minimal understanding of the english language


Minimal understanding typically includes knowledge of capitalization; e.g., "English" versus "english." 

P.S. I make my living smithing words these days, but thanks for the advice. :lol:


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Hoooooooo golly:lol: :lol: .....you _are_ a hoot.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Marcia_Brady said:


> Hoooooooo golly:lol: :lol: .....you _are_ a hoot.


Hey, come on. It's a cardinal rule of internet grammar or spelling flames that they have to include a typo or grammatical error. I HAD to call you on it.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Minimal understanding typically includes knowledge of capitalization; e.g., "English" versus "english."
> 
> P.S. I make my living smithing words these days, but thanks for the advice. :lol:


Really, smithing words? Very interesting. Technical writer?

Either way, not a very nice way to treat a lady. But my expectations are low, I suppose.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> I posted comments to that effect last week and got flamed so badly by a crowd of the usual suspects that the Mods had to lock it. Good luck; I hope you have your fire-proof suit on. :lol:


So Lefty, you think that thread lock-down was because of the so-called usual suspects' treatment of your innocent post? Is that right? You never say anything hostile or insulting to people who complain not about you, but the HR20, right? Just state the facts in your own inimitable way, and all the usual suspects come down on you? It was all those nasty usual suspects who were to blame. Is fiction your forte? If not, you might want to give it a try.:lol:

I had to add the smiley face, because that's what all the personal attack specialists do, to indicate they are just joshing around. Excluding Marcia, of course, because she wrote an instructive, good-humored email about how to be nice to others, and you ripped her for it. So she used a couple of smiley faces in her own defense.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

tstarn said:


> So Lefty, you think that thread lock-down was because of the so-called usual suspects' treatment of your innocent post? Is that right? You never say anything hostile or insulting to people who complain not about you, but the HR20, right? Just state the facts in your own inimitable way, and all the usual suspects come down on you? It was all those nasty usual suspects who were to blame. Is fiction your forte? If not, you might want to give it a try.:lol:
> 
> I had to add the smiley face, because that's what all the personal attack specialists do, to indicate they are just joshing around. Excluding Marcia, of course, because she wrote an instructive, good-humored email about how to be nice to others, and you ripped her for it. So she used a couple of smiley faces in her own defense.


If that's what you want to believe, by all means. Go right ahead. Whatever gets you through, buddy.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> If that's what you want to believe, by all means. Go right ahead. Whatever gets you through, buddy.


There's that buddy word again. Wordsmithed it right into the thread, huh? All anyone has to do is read your comments. You like to jab and run. Drop pithy personal attacks on people who complain about the HR20. It's your m.o. Own up to it. Enough said.


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## TomF (Sep 20, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> It's a cardinal rule of internet grammar or spelling flames that they have to include a typo or grammatical error.


For what it's worth, I always thought that Internet is a proper noun and should be capitalized!


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Back on topic guys & gals.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Donnie Byrd said:


> Back on topic guys & gals.


The HR20 is a disgusting, broken, ineffective, crappy, horrible, scuzzy, worthless, annoying, laughable, cruddy, creepy, lame, disappointing, buggy, silver, blue-lighted and hilarious POS. Is joke. That is the thread topic, sort of.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

TomF said:


> For what it's worth, I always through that Internet is a proper noun and should be capitalized!


The HR20 is a (cough, nice catch, cough) POS. Notice the subliminal message slyly embedded in the thread topic.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

tstarn said:


> The HR20 is a disgusting, broken, ineffective, crappy, horrible, scuzzy, worthless, annoying, laughable, cruddy, creepy, lame, disappointing, buggy, silver, blue-lighted and hilarious POS. Is joke. That is the thread topic, sort of.


Correct, but not grammar lessons.


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## cpcygan (Oct 22, 2006)

I've tried for 4 weeks to live with the shortcomings. There are to many problems, reboots, missed recordings, dropped audio, poor FF, less than intuitive GUI. I'm going back to the HR10. I got the HR20 for the SAT HD of my local stations but now would rather put up an antena for my HR10. Direct TV has a long way to go. Just got a Tivo Series 2 for cable - man how nice, networkable, downloadable programs to IPod, media server, no more phone lines. I'm so frustrated at the HR20!!!


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## jarrodo769 (Nov 21, 2006)

I registered on this forum just so I could bash the HR20. I don't understand how this box could get even a neutral review from anybody that's owned an HR10 or similar TiVO unit. Even if the HR20 was flawless, which it clearly isn't, the loss of association with TiVO is unacceptable. TiVO is a great company that thought of everything when designing their software, it's user friendly and functions flawlessly. 

The HR20? What a piece of garbage. What's wrong with DirecTV? This would be like Intel deciding they didn't want to deal with software companies anymore and releasing their latest and greatest processor without Windows and some hastily thrown together inhouse designed buggy operating system. Intel would never be that stupid but apparently DirecTV is.

I can't watch two live TV tuners!!?!?!??!!!! :nono2: 

Random deletions of programs I recorded including the Seahawks vs. Rams last week!!!??!?!??!!!! :eek2: 

No smart FF/RW or skip forward/backward feature?  

Loss of signal, picture, sound, complete lock ups, several reboots a week to keep it functioning!!!?!??!??!!!!?!?!  

I'm just damn glad I held onto my HR10 and am going to put it back in. Getting local channels in HD is so not worth switching to this box.


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## joejhawk (Oct 3, 2006)

jarrodo769 said:


> I registered on this forum just so I could bash the HR20. I don't understand how this box could get even a neutral review from anybody that's owned an HR10 or similar TiVO unit. Even if the HR20 was flawless, which it clearly isn't, the loss of association with TiVO is unacceptable. TiVO is a great company that thought of everything when designing their software, it's user friendly and functions flawlessly.
> 
> The HR20? What a piece of garbage. What's wrong with DirecTV? This would be like Intel deciding they didn't want to deal with software companies anymore and releasing their latest and greatest processor without Windows and some hastily thrown together inhouse designed buggy operating system. Intel would never be that stupid but apparently DirecTV is.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum. Great use of icons for your first post.


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## opelap (Nov 4, 2006)

jarrodo769 said:


> I registered on this forum just so I could bash the HR20. I don't understand how this box could get even a neutral review from anybody that's owned an HR10 or similar TiVO unit. Even if the HR20 was flawless, which it clearly isn't, the loss of association with TiVO is unacceptable. TiVO is a great company that thought of everything when designing their software, it's user friendly and functions flawlessly.
> 
> The HR20? What a piece of garbage. What's wrong with DirecTV? This would be like Intel deciding they didn't want to deal with software companies anymore and releasing their latest and greatest processor without Windows and some hastily thrown together inhouse designed buggy operating system. Intel would never be that stupid but apparently DirecTV is.
> 
> ...


To Each their own. I personally hate the TIVO interface after using an Ultimate TV for 6 years. In my (and my wife's) opinion, they got everything right with the UTV. I don't need my DVR to tell me what I should be watching.

The only reason there is an HR20 in my house is because it was closer to the UTV GUI.

But if TIVO is what you first used and are happy with it, more power to you. Switch to cable and get a TIVO series 3.


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## jrembree (Nov 17, 2006)

steve0212 said:


> I have never in my life worked with a more buggy piece of electronics. I have had my HR20 for about 3 weeks now. When I first got it, I had the previous software version on it and I had most of the issues noted in this forum. However, it did at least do its most important task for me and that was record. Now, since the latest software update (E3 I believe), I am having all kinds of recording problems. First, I have the well documents Sunday Ticket issue which burns me to no end. Also, now, it is missing all kinds of programs. They show up in the history as Partial. What the hell does that mean?
> 
> Fortunately, I have an HR10 and it is reliable enough to record for me with the same season passes. Then (on my HR20), I have some recordings that it actually did record, so I just tried to watch them. I press play and get nothing but a black screen. If I press Pause, FF, RW, Skip Forward or back, nothing moves it. One interesting thing I see on the screen is the text under the bar says "0:-1" (zero - colon - negative one). I tried rebooting the box. Now the shows don't even show up in the list of recorded programs.
> 
> ...


Agree entirely. I almost bought a TIVO box from Weakness with the large disk, but I thought I should get the "latest and greatest" from Direct TV. Big mistake. I also want a box that records and let me watch them, so pray that it will. A new box is supposed to be delivered today but I am not at all confident it will help.


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## jgrade (Oct 1, 2006)

jarrodo769 said:


> I registered on this forum just so I could bash the HR20. I don't understand how this box could get even a neutral review from anybody that's owned an HR10 or similar TiVO unit. Even if the HR20 was flawless, which it clearly isn't, the loss of association with TiVO is unacceptable. TiVO is a great company that thought of everything when designing their software, it's user friendly and functions flawlessly.
> 
> The HR20? What a piece of garbage. What's wrong with DirecTV? This would be like Intel deciding they didn't want to deal with software companies anymore and releasing their latest and greatest processor without Windows and some hastily thrown together inhouse designed buggy operating system. Intel would never be that stupid but apparently DirecTV is.
> 
> ...


Great post. Nice to see someone reviving a thread that died peacfully for no reason but to rant! :nono2: Seeing that it is your first post, I hope you at least took the time to search the forum for possible fixes to your issues; but judging from your post you did not. Everything you rant about has been discussed in so much detail, it's hard to believe anyone would continue to post.

Quick answers to your questions

1.	I think you meant no dual live buffers. Been discussed over and over and over. D choose 1 large buffer, BUT may be able to change that in the future. Don't compare this to a TiVo it is not.
2.	Random deletions have been reported over and over, wait until you have the newest firmware and post again.
3.	"Smart FF/RW" is a TiVo patent. Don't expect to see it ever. Try reading the tips and tricks on how to duplicate the feature.
4.	Again read the forum for others with the same problems. Have you tired a complete format? Is it a HDMI issue, what version are you working on? Please use the search.

Please be constructive in your posts and explain the issues so the tech people can try to figure out the answers. A complete rant may make you feel better, but is not constructive. This is a HR-20 Q&A forum not this thing sucks forum.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jgrade said:


> Great post. Nice to see someone reviving a thread that died peacfully for no reason but to rant! .... This is a HR-20 Q&A forum not this thing sucks forum.


Amen.

First post with all that content....its surely a naysayer troll in disguise....


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## jayvista (Oct 19, 2006)

I encourage all of you who have suffered with the buggy HR20 to call DirecTV retention and demand some form of compensation. I emailed first, then called to complain about all of the issues that I have had with the unit.

They are crediting me $10 / month for a year for my "issues" (plus other stuff like free HD programming and free ShowTime for a year).

I think we have to let DirecTV that we will not tolerate being beta testers for a buggy unit. This unit should NOT have been released as a production unit. The only way DirecTV will learn from this mistake is to give them pain for what they have delivered to us.

In another month, if this unit has not gotten significantly better, I will call again and demand more compensation.


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## Stevesdigi (Sep 19, 2006)

jayvista said:


> I encourage all of you who have suffered with the buggy HR20 to call DirecTV retention and demand some form of compensation. I emailed first, then called to complain about all of the issues that I have had with the unit.
> 
> They are crediting me $10 / month for a year for my "issues" (plus other stuff like free HD programming and free ShowTime for a year).
> 
> ...


I'm just telling D* that I quit - terminate my account...


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## earthymoon (Nov 21, 2006)

mjs31 said:


> I am always amazed that people who go and buy the first batch of a new electronic device get so angry when it has bugs. Come on folks. The first bunch to buy any of these devices tend to be beta testers of sorts. If you cannot take this then dont buy anything until you know the bugs are worked out.
> Anyone that expects something new to work perfectly is naive.
> 
> Yes...I am frustrated as well with some bugs, but I am also one of the people that likes the newest gadgets out there and realize my lack of patience in purchasing it could cause me headaches until the bugs get worked out.


AMEN. A lot of folks swear up and down about how great their Tivos are but I seem to remember how much of a POS it was when it first came out (stand alone). Once they perfected the software it was great. There's only so much a test group can telll you. Mass market is the only way to find all the "bugs".

With that said and done, I haven't had to many problems with my HR20. Granted, I'm patient with it. When it gets locked up I just hit exit and select on the remote and it usually takes a few seconds before it "unlocks." My mother has one and she'll just keep pressing buttons on the remote over and over and over. Geuss what, this IS a computer. Remember what happens when your computer locks up and you keep clicking your mouse or putting key commands in. Your computer is trying to "fix" itself AND follow your commands. I've never had to reset my HR20. Well I take that back. The only time I did have to reset is when my TV needed a reset. I have a DLP projection and I was having some picture issues. Anywho, it was the tv not the box. I think people are quick to blame the box. I also think that folks forget that there is a hard drive in the unit and you can't toss it and move it around like an old Hughes receiver....LOL. Would you toss your computer around?


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

All I can again say is I love the HR20. Never any major issues... just some annoyances... IE.. still wondering about the disk space and have the HD audio dropouts.. but those are annoyances and I think the disk space issue is just the fact that this 200 hour unit only can hold 30 hours of MP2. 

Overall I rate the unit an A- 

That's a few steps above the grade *$^%.

And I'm a science teacher, so I should know!


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## jarrodo769 (Nov 21, 2006)

jarrodo769 said:


> I can't watch two live TV tuners!!?!?!??!!!! :nono2:
> 
> Random deletions of programs I recorded including the Seahawks vs. Rams last week!!!??!?!??!!!! :eek2:
> 
> ...


Quoting myself, that's a new one...

I've had the box for a couple weeks now and in response to the gentleman who requested I be more constructive in my comments here's an update:

1) Dual live buffers - there's a work around for this that I found on this site, it's not as easy as the TIVO as it actually requires recording both shows but I'm getting used to it. My days of flipping between sports center and the news in the morning are over, don't really want to mess with all that in the AM, but it is doable.

2) Random deletions have stopped after a downloaded upgrade. My stuff is all there. I still get 10 seconds of missing sound on just about every thing I record. I don't know if this is a signal issue or a receiver issue.

3) Nothing new here... Still miss smart ff/rw

4) Receiver resets have been reduced since the firmware upgrade. I've still had to do it a couple of times, hoping they fix it soon.

My bottom line: If you have a series 2 tivo, keep it. HD locals isn't worth switching, get an antennae. TIVO was a well thought out and well tested piece of equipment, they thought of everything. This box is unfortunately not. If not for my sports addiction I'd go back to cable w/TIVO series 3.


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## jarrodo769 (Nov 21, 2006)

Does anyone else think it's funny that someone asked me to be more constructive on a thread titled "Worthless Piece of *$^%"?

:lol:


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

Slyster said:


> All I can again say is I love the HR20. Never any major issues... just some annoyances... IE.. still wondering about the disk space and have the HD audio dropouts.. but those are annoyances and I think the disk space issue is just the fact that this 200 hour unit only can hold 30 hours of MP2.
> 
> Overall I rate the unit an A-
> 
> ...


I started a new thread for that!! YAY!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jarrodo769 said:


> Does anyone else think it's funny that someone asked me to be more constructive on a thread titled "Worthless Piece of *$^%"?
> 
> :lol:


:hurah: :lol: :hurah: :lol:


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