# Is Your Dish Grounded?



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I have overseen 6 dish installations over the years (four of my own), by 6 different installers. In *none *of them did the installer actually run a ground wire from the dish to either an earth or a house ground. I'm curious what % of installations are actually grounded. If you know whether or not yours is, please take the poll and let us know. TIA. /s


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

4' grounding rod driven into the earth at the base of my 6' "dish tree".


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Well, the installer did not ground the dish.

I grounded it. I tied it into the grounding rod.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I ground the cables inside to bleed off noise and static, but I do not ground the dish.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Nick said:


> 4' grounding rod driven into the earth at the base of my 6' "dish tree".


That would be a no.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

All coax lines and dish grounded to the same point, where the electrical box on the side of my house is grounded to.


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> All coax lines and dish grounded to the same point, where the electrical box on the side of my house is grounded to.


that would be yes!!


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

585960 said:


> that would be yes!!


But is that considered a house ground or earth ground? It's grounded with all the other utilities at the side of my house, but all of those run into the ground. I voted Earth Ground.


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## Tom M (Jan 4, 2007)

When I built a house and installed my own system 9 years ago I grounded the system. When I did a Movers Connection a bit over 2 years ago the installer grounded the system by connecting it to the existing ground. When I did a MC and later an HD upgrade a few months ago the installers never installed any grounds nor did they tie anything to any existing grounds.


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> But is that considered a house ground or earth ground? It's grounded with all the other utilities at the side of my house, but all of those run into the ground. I voted Earth Ground.


I would think earth ground too. My reason for thinking (excuuuuse me for thinking) is the electrical box, goes to earth ground. If you ground to say a cold water pipe, etc. thats a house ground, right?


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## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

House electrical ground, telephone NID ground, and Dish/Coax ground are all clamped to the same physical ground rod (driven, I assume, by the electrician who wired the house).


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

In my present house, all electrical services (electricity, phone, cable, dish, multiswitches, and coax) are grounded at the same point to the same ground rod. 

Likely has not been true of all my houses.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> All electrical services (electricity, phone, cable, dish, multiswitches, and coax) are grounded at the same point to the same ground rod.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


That's not always true, Tom .. But yes, it should be.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Sorry, was describing my situation in my current house. I realize that many houses are not as well laid out as mine with all the services entering within a very short distance of each other. I didn't check on all my other houses, but I'm highly suspicious they were not very kosher.

Cheers,
Tom


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Nevada County is quite "unique". 
I have a pole mount dish that goes about four feet into the ground. I have underground service with no visible signs of a ground [though the power box has seals on it limiting my inspection], and the phone line is grounded to a water pipe [which turns to PVC for the underground feed].
Anybody want to take bets? :lol:


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## alexcohen (Sep 27, 2006)

My Installer(s) wouldn't even know how to pronounce the word.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Steve said:


> I have overseen 6 dish installations over the years (four of my own), by 6 different installers. In *none *of them did the installer actually run a ground wire from the dish to either an earth or a house ground. I'm curious what % of installations are actually grounded. If you know whether or not yours is, please take the poll and let us know. TIA. /s


I am an electrical engineer and inspector and routinely see dish installs done improperly. The local install company (Ironwood) that subcontracts for D* has no clue what "NEC" means let alone any of the NEC requirements. I had to get them here 5 times to properly ground my dish.. I explained to each installer what the NEC required and even printed out the pertinent pages from the code book, but it was greek to them. They do not train their employees what NEC requires. I think they get most of these guys off the street.

I ended up contacting the state atty generals office. Who knows how many other installs aren't done properly and the avg. person would have no idea. Is Ironwood liable if a home catches fire or occupant is injured because of an ungrounded satellite install?

I knew what the code required and could have done it myself, but it was Ironwood's job to do it right, not the customers.


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## Car1181 (Mar 30, 2006)

When I installed my own dish on my summer cabin I followed the directions and grounded the dish. No installer has ever grounded my dishes (Standard, 3lnb,5lnb) at my home.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Nevada County is quite "unique".
> I have a pole mount dish that goes about four feet into the ground. I have underground service with no visible signs of a ground [though the power box has seals on it limiting my inspection], and the phone line is grounded to a water pipe [which turns to PVC for the underground feed].
> Anybody want to take bets? :lol:


Bet? Noper, no way. But best guess...not very likely.

Cheers,
Tom


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> House electrical ground, telephone NID ground, and Dish/Coax ground are all clamped to the same physical ground rod (driven, I assume, by the electrician who wired the house).


These can be on the same ground rod, but each is required to have separate ground clamps on the rod. If on separate ground rods, each needs to be bonded to the electrical service ground rod.

Water lines are ok if:
1. The home has metal plumbing. A lot of newer homes don't and the installer doesn't check or ask.
2. If an above ground water spigot (not coming out of the home), the waterline is in contact with 10' of continuous earth.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

n3ntj said:


> ...
> Water lines are ok if:
> 1. The home has metal plumbing. A lot of newer homes don't and the installer doesn't check or ask.
> 2. If an above ground water spigot (not coming out of the home), the waterline is in contact with 10' of continuous earth.


Do you mean OK if AND or OR on items 1 & 2?

And thanks for the detailed info.
Tom


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Bet? Noper, no way. But best guess...not very likely.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


This is the same "code" that allows a white wire to carry 110 volts [along with the black wire on 220 circuits]. Ya got to love these "out in the country" county codes. :lol:


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Steve said:


> I have overseen 6 dish installations over the years (four of my own), by 6 different installers. In *none *of them did the installer actually run a ground wire from the dish to either an earth or a house ground. I'm curious what % of installations are actually grounded. If you know whether or not yours is, please take the poll and let us know. TIA. /s


I live in Northern CA, I don't ground anything.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Nope. I have 3 satellite dishes on the roof, none of them were ever grounded by the installers, nor did I bother to make an attempt to do it. The cable guy did ground the splitter to a thick twisted wire coming out of the fuse box, whatever that is. When we had cable before the splitter was never grounded. This isn't exactly the lightning capitol of the world, so I never really cared to look into grounding.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

This is the lightning capitol of the world, and I grounded my dishes to the house grounding rod when I installed them. But, due to location of the dishes it was fairly easy.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Well duh... grounding your dishes at my house would be pretty hard and foolish 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Cheers,
Tom


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## brYdn (May 16, 2007)

free NEC code electrical ground work, call DishNet and DirecTV, today!!! for free... bond them ground rods every 20' to the house gound


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Truly, a work of art, fer shur :lol:


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

I've had four installs since 1996, and not a one of them were grounded. I have removed a few dishes from houses in this area for parts, and only ONE of them was grounded, and I think that was only because it was on the same pole that the electrical service came in on, and the installer just ran it to the ground rod at the bottom of the pole. Its just not done down here, for whatever reason, codes be damned...:lol: 

It would take me 50-75 feet of copper wire to get to my house ground rod, and I'd have to dig a trench to get it there.


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## DaveTheWave (Mar 27, 2007)

brYdn said:


> free NEC code electrical ground work, call DishNet and DirecTV, today!!! for free... bond them ground rods every 20' to the house gound


That guy went loopy :lol:


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## DaveTheWave (Mar 27, 2007)

stogie5150 said:


> I've had four installs since 1996, and not a one of them were grounded. I have removed a few dishes from houses in this area for parts, and only ONE of them was grounded, and I think that was only because it was on the same pole that the electrical service came in on, and the installer just ran it to the ground rod at the bottom of the pole. Its just not done down here, for whatever reason, codes be damned...:lol:
> 
> It would take me 50-75 feet of copper wire to get to my house ground rod, and I'd have to dig a trench to get it there.


I'm in the same boat. The dish is on the opposite side of the house from the electrical service.


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## TheDurk (Mar 8, 2007)

My Dish300 that I put up in 1996 was grounded as was my D* 101 Dish from 2002. Ground wire AL#6 was run from dish to grounding block for cables at entry point and on to house electric service earth rod--which I assumed is what was meant by 'house ground' as opposed to a special purpose 'earth ground'. This is so because I did them myself. My new AU-9 still has the cables from the pole-mount dish on top of the lawn, but it WILL be grounded in the same manner if the installer wants to leave in one piece, assuming he ever comes back like he promised.....


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## steve053 (May 11, 2007)

My 1st install in '01 was grounded to the aluminum gutters. Every time we had a little rain the dish would go down. Finally figured it out and ran a ground wire directly to the electrical ground stake where all my electrical is grounded.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

I've never seen a professional *residential* install that was grounded. When I get mine in two weeks I expect I'll have to ground it myself after the guys leave.

The 90cm dish we have at church for CCN on Galaxy 25 *is* grounded. To something... I'm not sure exactly what LOL. (I haven't bothered tracking the ground wire).

P.S. my own 75cm dish for FTA on Galaxy 25 is grounded to the house ground.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

MarkA said:


> I've never seen a professional *residential* install that was grounded. When I get mine in two weeks I expect I'll have to ground it myself after the guys leave...


Not if you instruct them to ground your system. It's part of the deal.

On my first install, I noticed the next day that it wasn't grounded. I called
the owner of the company and he came out and did the ground himself.

It's your install - take charge!


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Ours is grounded. My installer didn't recommend it though.


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

there are two schools of thought about grounding dishes (roof mounts)

1) NEC code does ask for it

2) grounding it makes it into a lightning rod


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## Larry G (Apr 13, 2006)

Neither of my dishes were grounded by the installer (original in 2000 and AT9 last year). When I replaced the coax to the AT9 and wired an additional feed to each receiver location for DVR I grounded the dish myself to a 6' ground rod. I would prefer it grounded to the house ground but that is so far away from the dish location I'd need to finance the copper required to reach it.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

DaveTheWave said:


> I'm in the same boat. The dish is on the opposite side of the house from the electrical service.


Mine too, so my installer used wireless grounding. He said it's his favorite way to install.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

aim2pls said:


> there are two schools of thought about grounding dishes (roof mounts)
> 
> 1) NEC code does ask for it
> 
> 2) grounding it makes it into a lightning rod


That is sort of the point of grounding it. If you don't ground it, and it gets hit by a lightning strike... then all sorts of nastiness can ensue... but grounding it makes it more attractive to the lightning and safer at the same time.

Lightning (like all electricity) wants the path of least resistance, but will take what it can get... so the point of any lightning rod is to make an attractive point for the lightning and route it away from all your stuff.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

joed32 said:


> Mine too, so my installer used wireless grounding. He said it's his favorite way to install.


:lol:

But seriously, on what frequency does your wireless ground transmit?

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Not sure but I think it's O2


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"Lightning (like all electricity) wants the path of least resistance, but will take what it can get... so the point of any lightning rod is to make an attractive point for the lightning and route it away from all your stuff."

WRONG, it's this fundamental misunderstanding that results in so many ungrounded dishes. The point of a lightning rod is to *repel* lightning by draining the static discharge.

The secondary function of the ground is to help safely drain away static energy - not a direct lightning strike however - you'd be done for if that happened.

A grounded dish is less likely to get struck by lightning, and provides safety against secondary static energy charges.


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## prospect60 (Aug 26, 2006)

Thank you Mark. 


Yes or No vote on mine.

1) Roof mounted AU9 dish with 4 Coax and an 8AWG (it may even be a 6) solid copper wire with the green insulation stripped at the end.

2) 8AWG solid copper wire attached at the ground hole of dish runs 6-8 feet to Port 1 of dual port dual coax ground block1.

3) A separate 8AWG copper then attaches to port 2 of block1 and runs through ground port of Dual Coax Ground Block 2. It was once a single continuous run of copper wire from the Dish to both Ground Blocks and then down to the ground, but when I moved the dish the old wire had to be extended. 

4) The second run of copper wire continues from the 2nd Ground block and runs 30-40 feet along the roof gutter and down the outside of the downspout. It is attached to what I assume is a thick copper wire that runs down from the Electric Power Meter and is attached to a Rod buried in the ground -- looks like the shape of the copper ground rods that I've seen at Lowes. It looks like the ground from the cable box and telephone is attached at this same wire from the Electric Meter. 

5) The 4 coax cables from the LNBs run to the pair of Ground Blocks and then 4 additional coax from the Ground Blocks enter the house about 2-3 feet away through the attic. Eventually I suspect those 4 incoming wires will attach to a Zinwell Multiswitch inside the attic, but right now I only need 4 outputs

6) CM4228 currently is in the attic.

If something doesn't sound right I do have access to the installer and will beat some retribution out of the schmuck since I (ugh that should be he) swore it was down correctly.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

While often practiced, daisy chained grounds aren't code. The ground screw on each device (dish, ground block) are to be home run all the way to a bonding point. Bonding points don't happen between the ends of another wire.

Will poorly done grounds still bleed off the static? Certainly better than no ground.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> While often practiced, daisy chained grounds aren't code.


I always find this interesting. If the installer had used a four position grounding block in place of two two (no, I don't do ballet) position grounding blocks there would be no question. Once wire from the dish to the four position GB and then on to the grounding post and all is fine. The same grounding wire going through one block then the other block, probably side by side, then to the grounding post is a problem. :shrug: While I am sure the code frowns on this, I can't see the logic. But then, I'm in the process of trying to get a building permit at the moment and logic seems to have nothing to do with that either.


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## prospect60 (Aug 26, 2006)

Wow, that's not what the DirecTV installation brochure shows.

So it should have 3 separate runs of Copper wire back to the grounding point (one from the dish and one from each grounding block)?

Is the Bonding Point the actual ground rod or does that go the wire (?4AWG) that runs from the Electric meter to the Ground Rod. That's the wire where the Telephone and CATV boxes appear to be 'attached' to the House Ground. I assumed that wire was the proper place since the House Inspector signed off and the Telephone installer, Electrician, etc who built the house all did the same.

If not it looks like I have to get more green wire and get back to work.



> If the installer had used a four position grounding block in place of two two (no, I don't do ballet) position grounding blocks there would be no question. Once wire from the dish to the four position GB and then on to the grounding post and all is fine.


Is that correct or would you then run 2 separate lines, one from the dish and then one from the Ground Block. I just a lot more confused though that would certainly simplify the fix as I could just replace the 2 dual blocks with a quad.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

No. They put it on my roof


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

The problem that I have with an independent ground to the dish is that the LNB is part of the dish electrically and it is grounded through the coax. If you add a ground wire at the dish (or the base of the dish) you are, in theory, creating a ground loop. Many ages ago, when I was doing recording studio work, ground loops were a real problem that a person could spend many hours chasing down to create a clean audio flow. Having two routes to ground from one piece of equipment was always found to be the problem. Which piece of equipment and how to resolve was what required the detective work. This type of thing was always to be avoided yet, it appears to me, that it is encouraged by the installations mentioned above. My theory on grounding is that the coax goes to the ground block and the ground block grounding wire goes to the house ground, end of story. No potential ground loop is created.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

After a bit of rethinking, actually, the LNB's are not part of the dish since they are not electrically connected to the dish, but are connected to the dish with a plastic collar. So, I guess to do it "correctly" they are actually two pieces of equipment and so would require independent runs back to the house ground. I would still go LNB to Ground block and Dish to Ground Block then Ground block to house ground (ground pole). Another theoretical question is "Why ground the dish at all?" The dish is just a piece of metal attached to the house but not to any electrical equipment of the house. It has no electrical connection to the house at all. Why ground it?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Wind blowing across the surface of the dish can build up a fair amount of potential (depending on the actual surface material of course). 

And the operation of the LNBs is based on a common ground plane between the LNB and the IRD and the optional switch. Mess with the ground, and things go bad.

You are absolutely correct, all the ground points must be tied together to the same ground via very low resistance connection or loops will occur. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Wind blowing across the surface of the dish can build up a fair amount of potential (depending on the actual surface material of course).


Yep. Agree. But, where would that charge dishcharge, er, discharge to? With no direct path to ground the nearest place to discharge to would be the shield of the RG-6 cable (through a spark jump if enough charge should build up) and then to the ground block and to ground through the block. Then again, the theory of grounding the dish is to avoid the buildup of a charge in the first place and, because of the charge, the possibility of attracting a lightning strike. If you think too much about this kind of thing it can drive you crazy. :lol:


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## CableSux (Oct 7, 2005)

Grounding has always been a contentious issue. Anyone that has read the NEC and spent any time trying to decipher it realizes there are 2 sections, one was written for TV antennas (especially towers the stick 30-40-50 feet into the sky) and the other is CATV (cable) where cable wires cross power lines. 

The problem with satellite is, since it doesn't seem to really fall under either, they force installers to use BOTH! They use the TV antenna code for grounding the dish (mast) and the CATV code for grounding the cable. 

The reason to ground CATV is 2-fold, 1 to protect against shorts with power lines and 2 to re-reference ground before the cable gets to your equipment. Satellite doesn't need to do either unless you're running cables over/under power lines.

The reason for grounding TV antennas and towers is pretty obvious. If a tower falls over and hits power lines or many times lights are installed on TV towers... they have AC power going to them.. protect against shorts. Anyone that's read the NEC knows they are only worried about grounding the "mast". They aren't worried about the cable, probably because until a few years ago, they only used 300 ohm cable, the flat stuff with no shield. You can't ground that! So... the NEC wants the satellite dish "mast" grounded. Not the dish, the mast. 

Ground mast (from one code) + ground coax (from another code) = 2 grounds.

In reality... most satellite dishes are all metal. That means the coax shield (which one code wants grounded) is electrically attached to the rest of the metal dish, to include the "mast". use an ohm meter to verify. So technically, the mast and coax shield are the same point. Logic says ground the coax and you've grounded the "mast". The exception would be those dishes that have a plastic yoke, like the Dish 500. But here's where logic really upsets code-lovers... if the dish, I.E. mast is separated from the LNB, then it's just a piece of metal on the roof... why does it need to be grounded? It's no longer electrically connected to the house. It's not going to fall over onto power lines. It's not going to have yard lights mounted to it. 

Now the real question is... has anyone, anywhere, ever heard of lightening hitting a satellite dish (grounded or not) or electrocuting anyone because it wasn't grounded? I have seen grounding cause more problems because of improper wiring in houses. But that's for another day.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Well stated Mr. Sux. I have seen a BUD or two get hit by lightning (and does that ever make a mess), but can't say that I have ever seen a pizza dish ever get hit, grounded or not.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CableSux said:


> Now the real question is... has anyone, anywhere, ever heard of lightening hitting a satellite dish (grounded or not) or electrocuting anyone because it wasn't grounded? I have seen grounding cause more problems because of improper wiring in houses. But that's for another day.


Not the dish, but I have had lightning hit the LNB, or at least close enough to the LNB to fry it and leave scorch marks. (In fact in created a large enough charge in the air to turn on my electric toothbrush. Half asleep on a rainy Saturday morning, that produced a very twilight zone moment as my brain tried to process what happened.) This was probably 10+ years ago when first with D*.

Luckily, I was within whatever warranty period they were offering. They send a replacement LNB right away. Said they would charge me if the returned LNB showed lightning damage rather than just a manufacturers defect. They obviously never looked at the bad LNB, because damage was obvious. They never charged me for replacement.


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## CableSux (Oct 7, 2005)

I agree that grounding a dish provides for reducing the potential of attracting lightening. By the same token, it can't guarantee it won't be hit. Just like the tree in your yard can be hit, and you can bet it's well grounded  Grounded or not, nothing will protect against a direct hit or a "feeler" from a nearby strike. 

The question comes down to, if the purpose of the ground is to reference the dish (mast) to the house/earth ground, then isn't the shielding in the coax, being grounded through your AC outlet sufficient? Technically, yes. BUT... there's always a "but" isn't there? lol BUT, what if the customer only has a two-prong plug (although technically, the return side of the outlet is connected to ground).. or the plug isn't wired correctly. By having the installer install a ground block and ground it to the house/earth ground, we avoid that risk.

Soooo, when you say your LNB was hit, it probably didn't make any difference if it was grounded or not. The metal casing on the LNB is electrically connected to the coax shield, which is electrically connected to the receivers chassis and ground and return side of the AC power cord, which is electrically connected to the house ground, which is connected to the earth ground... 
.


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## CableSux (Oct 7, 2005)

What really bugs me is how strict everyone is about grounding satellite dishes (and their cables) but yet TV antennas and towers (for which NEC 210 was specifically written) are almost never grounded.... and we never hear a peep about it. Someone should start a poll asking everyone if their TV antenna tower is grounded.


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