# I cheated... Locals in HD - sorta...



## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

Ok - I am tired of not getting stuff in High Definition. I am tired of not having my locals in High Def (especially during football season with DISH). I am tired of my step father who has Comcast rubbing it in on me coz he gets some Philly Locals in HD and W/B Scranton and I get none. So what did I do?

I called up dish told them I moved and gave them an address of a friend's house in Philadelphia and told them I live there (my friend ok'd it - he has comcast obviously).

Now I get all my "locals" in HD from Philly, which is good because I never watched locals in my own market anyways. 

Is this illegal?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If you can survive the flaming you're likely to get here for bragging about it. 

E* cannot legally sell you those locals in your true location and you have lied to E* in order to get that service. It is certainly not a laudable thing.


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

E* cannot legally sell you those locals in your true location and you have lied to E* in order to get that service. It is certainly not a laudable thing.[/QUOTE]


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

I say...Bravo! Everyone should do this. One is under no obligation to obey an unjust law or rule... as long as one is prepared to accept the posible consequences.

mike/


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

mikeyoung said:


> I say...Bravo! Everyone should do this. One is under no obligation to obey an unjust law or rule... as long as one is prepared to accept the posible consequences.
> 
> mike/


It would be sweet, every single subscriber doing it, I mean what could Dish do, they couldn't possibly stop it and the customer will have spoken. All those laws are SO outdated as to be ridiculous.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

spykedvodka said:


> Ok - I am tired of not getting stuff in High Definition. I am tired of not having my locals in High Def (especially during football season with DISH). I am tired of my step father who has Comcast rubbing it in on me coz he gets some Philly Locals in HD and W/B Scranton and I get none. So what did I do?
> 
> I called up dish told them I moved and gave them an address of a friend's house in Philadelphia and told them I live there (my friend ok'd it - he has comcast obviously).
> 
> ...


It's not illegal, there'll be no police cars coming to take you away, not for this anyway.:lol: However it does go against the agreement you have with Dish. So it is possible they could disconnect your service if they find out what you're doing. Keep paying your bill, keep your receiver(s) attached to the phone line in your house, basically give them no excuses to take a closer look at your account and both you and Dish will probably remain happy with the arrangement.


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

Basically, I wasn't posting this to gloat. I am very happy about though honestly. I am posting this to find out if I was breaking any laws.

I do believe that the FCC laws are unfair and that people that live in more rural areas like where I do, do not get equal treatment and have to wait years to get the same service other people do.

You know what I mean? I believe that these rules the FCC have are unjust and are unfair and give companies like Comcast (whom like I said does give people in my city Philadelphia Locals as well as the Scranton/W-B locals in HD to make up for the lack of local HD channels in this market) the edge. It is unfair and unjust. This to me is a case of "civil disobedience". I am not giving Dish any reason to look at my account, as I have paid in full and all 3 receivers are hooked up to a phone line.


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## AcuraCL (Dec 12, 2005)

As long as its civil disobedience, I'm all for it


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

AcuraCL said:


> As long as its civil disobedience, I'm all for it


Yeah, cause we wouldn't want any uncivil disobedience! :lol:


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

Broadcast networks should just go out of business and everyone should receive networks from a National distributor. People can get local news from the newspaper. Who needs local broadcasters. They are out of date with the times.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Maybe your's are, but MY local stations are cutting edge. WRAL was the first station in the nation to do HDTV broadcasting - including their local news - and you can see it even in their NTSC broadcasts.


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

That's a good point with the local stations being obselete. I mean really - I don't watch local news. I don't even read the newspaper. I get all that info off of the net. 

National broadcasts wouldn't truley work unless they were able to be broken up in areas. For instance, a national feed of FOX would only carry two NFL games on a Sunday and wouldn't be the Eagles. Where as the Philly Fox Station carries the Eagles games.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

jerryez said:


> Broadcast networks should just go out of business and everyone should receive networks from a National distributor. People can get local news from the newspaper. Who needs local broadcasters. They are out of date with the times.


AMEN! I have been saying this for years. Local networks offer nothing that can't be had elsewhere, they just muddy the waters and make everything more difficult and waste bandwidth. Just have national feeds like all other "cable" networks. With internet streaming stuff it will be that anyway in the very near future and the local yokals will be out of business anyway. Stupid of the FCC to try to do anything about it.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

jerryez said:


> Broadcast networks should just go out of business and everyone should receive networks from a National distributor. People can get local news from the newspaper. Who needs local broadcasters. They are out of date with the times.


Think about what U have just said. Broadcast networks are by definition NATIONAL. Local Broadcasters are not. In the PBS location that I work at one of my fellow engs has said similar things. And with the way things are going unless a local station learns to adapt it will go belly up B4 to many years go by. Anyway why do you want to read about the news a day late? Newspapers are good for in depth info. No longer are they good for "breaking" news. Like O less see: A bomb threat , gas line explosions, water lines shut down and other small things like a freeway being closed due to a 25 car pile up.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

jerryez said:


> Broadcast networks should just go out of business and everyone should receive networks from a National distributor. People can get local news from the newspaper. Who needs local broadcasters. They are out of date with the times.


Then things are really upside down, because newspapers are the ones going out of business, not TV stations. The internet is killing newspapers and may obsolete them, as it may eventually do to broadcast TV.


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## GeorgeLV (Jan 1, 2006)

Um, you know Echostar is going to be permanently banned from providing DNS because they didn't do enough to verify subscriber eligibility.

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200313671.pdf

I wouldn't be the least be suprised if the networks now press satellite providers to crackdown on "movers".


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long,

I know its off topic... but this was the first thread I saw your new avatar... and it struck me as funny that your reply in this thread also had you pictured hiding behind your receiver


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm not hiding ... my recievers are right where E* thinks they are (and are all connected to the same telephone line). But I did add my 622 to the Avatar and having both receivers there takes up more space.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> I'm not hiding ... my recievers are right where E* thinks they are (and are all connected to the same telephone line). But I did add my 622 to the Avatar and having both receivers there takes up more space.


Reminds me of that old Kilroy was Here doodle that pops up every now and then... with the guy peering over the top of a wall or something!


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

Yeah, I just noticed James Avatar as well. That's cool. Made me laugh when I first saw it. LOL


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

spykedvodka said:


> I do believe that the FCC laws are unfair and that people that live in more rural areas like where I do, do not get equal treatment and have to wait years to get the same service other people do.


Which is why the "locals" package is a greater value to people in the Los Angeles DMA, since they get 24 local channels for the same $5 a month that Wilkes-Barre/Scranton subscribes pay for their 6 channels. Which customer is getting the better deal?


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

ebaltz said:


> It would be sweet, every single subscriber doing it, I mean what could Dish do, they couldn't possibly stop it and the customer will have spoken. All those laws are SO outdated as to be ridiculous.


I don't know if the situation was that widespread I suspect that the NAB would go to court. That could have an adverse impact on E*'s ability to carry locals at all.

Then again maybe the case would be thrown out.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Fifty Caliber said:


> Which is why the "locals" package is a greater value to people in the Los Angeles DMA, since they get 24 local channels for the same $5 a month that Wilkes-Barre/Scranton subscribes pay for their 6 channels. Which customer is getting the better deal?


Each provider offers all locals ina market at a set rate. The value to each sub varies in part on the number of channels in each market It varies too based on how they feel about their locals. But we are all free to pay the $5 or not. There is no guarantee of equal access to OTA TV.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

GeorgeLV said:


> Um, you know Echostar is going to be permanently banned from providing DNS because they didn't do enough to verify subscriber eligibility.
> 
> http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200313671.pdf
> 
> I wouldn't be the least be suprised if the networks now press satellite providers to crackdown on "movers".


I'm not a lawyer but I am a broadcast engineer. I read through this ruling and it seems to me that it is related to "grade B contour transmission". This is strictly an analog transmission standard. The SHIVA act has to do with if one can receive local networks over the air using an outdoor TV antenna. So that is a different story also than receiving an HD digital TV signal. 1 last thing 2 of the 4 networks withdrew from the law suit. This left only CBS and FOX in the suit. And as it is noted on the Dish website CBS HD is available for sale through them. So please fell free to explain to me how this ruling will still be usable without another case being filed in court to prove that Echo is not working correctly in the new world of digital transmission of broadcast stations.


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## conner65 (Jan 26, 2004)

We live in the USA not China. If we are willing to pay for it then we ought to able to see it if a provider can provide it. I am sick and tired of lobbyist and politicians infringing on the rights of Americans.


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## auburn2 (Sep 8, 2005)

jerryez said:


> Who needs local broadcasters.


Anyone who wants real HD programming (and not compressed "HD Light").


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## AdamGott (Nov 30, 2005)

auburn2 said:


> Anyone who wants real HD programming (and not compressed "HD Light").


Many things are not as they seem when it comes to the digital world. Lots of us have PBS-HD with 4 or 5 subchannels. Is that really REAL HD programming?

And my local ABC has a subchannel for weather...


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## stackthepads30 (Feb 10, 2006)

spykedvodka said:


> Ok - I am tired of not getting stuff in High Definition. I am tired of not having my locals in High Def (especially during football season with DISH). I am tired of my step father who has Comcast rubbing it in on me coz he gets some Philly Locals in HD and W/B Scranton and I get none. So what did I do?
> 
> I called up dish told them I moved and gave them an address of a friend's house in Philadelphia and told them I live there (my friend ok'd it - he has comcast obviously).
> 
> ...


Ok, my question would be then if you have your receivers hooked up to the phone line, wouldn't they recognize that your phone number is not registered to the address that you gave? The only bad thing about having philly's locals is that all the comcast sportsnet broadcasts are blacked out, not being able to see any flyers games except those on upn57.....And I'm a season ticket holder for the flyers. I wish that comcast wouldn't be so darn greedy around here and give satellite permission to broadcast, just like every other market in the country does.


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## junebughunter (May 22, 2006)

I am curious about trying this with DirecTV even though they are supposed to roll out locals soon. I don't really enjoy the local news and if there was something on it I wanted to watch I could just go OTA.

My Dad lives in the LA area so I have a valid address I could use.

What do I tell them? I temporarily moved to his address, he already had the dish and everything setup...but send the bills to my old address?

Would this work if I just changed my home address on the DirecTV website to his?


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

stackthepads30 said:


> Ok, my question would be then if you have your receivers hooked up to the phone line, wouldn't they recognize that your phone number is not registered to the address that you gave? The only bad thing about having philly's locals is that all the comcast sportsnet broadcasts are blacked out, not being able to see any flyers games except those on upn57.....And I'm a season ticket holder for the flyers. I wish that comcast wouldn't be so darn greedy around here and give satellite permission to broadcast, just like every other market in the country does.


You see, there is another EVIL and that's verizon. They actually have a "lock" on the phone numbers here in my city so that I cannot get a VOIP number in my area. Therefore my VOIP (broadband internet phone - does not use conventional telephone lines, but instead runs over the internet) number is from Philadelphia. So as far as they are concerned, the number I'm using is from Philadelphia as well.


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

You know I have tried everything before I went to this extreme. Even with a decently priced antenna on my roof, I was only able to receive 2 of my local channels, none of which are in HD or Digital.

See the weird part is, I even applied for waivers. I have applied for waivers every month for the past 9 months and they got denied every time for every network (except CBS National HD).

I think this is bull **** because every comcast subscriber in my area that has HD gets the (well most of) the locals from Philadelphia in HD (due to the lack of HD being in my area's locals). How can Comcast get a blanket waiver for all their subscribers to have the locals out of Philly in HD, but I can't get them from anywhere and stuck with sub-par quality channels. This is a crock of b.s. in my opinion. I feel like my rights and freedoms have been utterly violated and this is just one example.


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## junebughunter (May 22, 2006)

I am enjoying my HD locals from the Los Angeles area as we speak.

I was a little nervous thinking that the rep would call me on my bull **** but nope, they are like robots they just asked for my different address. I was able to keep my old phone number and billing address no prob...


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Think about what U have just said. Broadcast networks are by definition NATIONAL. Local Broadcasters are not. In the PBS location that I work at one of my fellow engs has said similar things. And with the way things are going unless a local station learns to adapt it will go belly up B4 to many years go by. Anyway why do you want to read about the news a day late? Newspapers are good for in depth info. No longer are they good for "breaking" news. Like O less see: A bomb threat , gas line explosions, water lines shut down and other small things like a freeway being closed due to a 25 car pile up.


I'm replying to my on reply due to the most recent court ruling. Notice in it the last hold out to the Distant Networks availibility is the FOX net. It is owned by the same company that owns D*.

http://www.dishchannelchart.com/
Dish Network Channel Chart (Unofficial)


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## auburn2 (Sep 8, 2005)

AdamGott said:


> Many things are not as they seem when it comes to the digital world. Lots of us have PBS-HD with 4 or 5 subchannels. Is that really REAL HD programming?
> 
> And my local ABC has a subchannel for weather...


Yeah and when Dish rebroadcasts that same ABC local they compress it further. It is not like Dish is getting a national feed for their HD locals. The dish HD rebroadcast of your locals will never be better than picking them up OTA (assuming you can get them OTA).


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## junebughunter (May 22, 2006)

Man I just realized I get about 10 more local channels in addition to the local HD's...

Also the local HD appear to be higher quality than the other HD channels that are between 70-79 for me.

This is wonderful


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

Broadcast stations are only in business because they lobby(pay money) to politicians who pass bills to protect them from extinction.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jerryez said:


> Broadcast stations are only in business because they lobby(pay money) to politicians who pass bills to protect them from extinction.


Broadcast TV is virtually the only free TV available to the general public. If you can get good reception, there is a lot of quality programming free to all via OTA broadcasts.

It is a crazy world when people complain and want to put the free TV stations out of business.


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## junebughunter (May 22, 2006)

I find it funny, most people will pay $50-$200 a month to supply their homes with a couple hundred television stations. Yet not a single one of those pay stations have ever had a show that competes with the popularity of a series on a free station.

The best programming in the world is free and people complain.

If it wasn't for the Science channel, Discovery HD and a few other shows I watch sparingly I wouldn't have Satellite or Cable.


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

We don't want to put them out of business, we just want the right to be able to pay for an extra service and get it. Make me get the Burlington stations, that's fine, but if I have the $$ to pay for an HD broadcast of NBC out of New York, and someone's willing to provide me that for the $$, I have a hard time seeing why Burlington's NBC station should be able to prevent that.

(That's even assuming that, as the FCC seems to insist, I was able to get those Burlington stations OTA. No one around here can, but we're still denied waivers. Vermont is so rumply that reception is entirely different a mile down the road, but you can never prove it to their satisfaction.)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jerryez said:


> Broadcast stations are only in business because they lobby(pay money) to politicians who pass bills to protect them from extinction.


Most stations are only in business to make money. Some have owner ego and other factors driving their existence. Stations generally don't have the money to buy politicians. The larger corporate ownership groups do, but they already exist in many communities across the country - in a way 'localism' rules hurt them as much as they protect those stations.

Take a look at the laws and you will see a lot more laws giving permission to retransmit than laws prohibiting secondary transmissions.


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## jc17981 (Jun 27, 2002)

I totally agree with you junebughunter. It does not bother me in the least to watch my local stations (though most of the Greenville stations do a very good job). I do think local broadcasters serve a purpose. I am in favor of supporting my local tv stations and their advertisers in order to keep them in business. However, IMHO, we are already seeing the next step of evolution shaping up in the broadcast industry, which will ultimately lead to the national feeds a lot of you speculate about. 

Think about what has happened in the radio industry. Do you remember - say 20 years ago, when you could turn on to a local radio station in a small town and find out about the snow outside, the wreck down the road, or the election results? Well, with voice tracking, many "local" radio stations are programmed in another city with a minimal local presence aside from the sales team. Those that are able to support a strong local presence still have it, however other stations are literally "satellite" stations.

In the TV broadcasting industry, we see this happening also. Roberts Broadcasting uses SES AMERICOM's SignalSAT to disseminate programming from WRBU in St. Louis to WZRB in Columbia. A lot of stations are pulling their local newscasts off the air in exchange for syndicated programming of some sort, which would allow them to set up remote operations as well.


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## wwfmike (Jul 17, 2006)

What local package is the best HD provider?

I have the Albuquerque HD locals but they wouldn't know HD from their elbow. I Have seen 1 episode each of Leno, Cops, and dancing with the stars in HD and nothing else. I wouldn't mind supporting my local channels if they supported me by giving me HD content. They didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my emails. The only reply I got was from KRQE CBS saying that they are in negotiations to get CBS-HD on Dish.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

wwfmike said:


> What local package is the best HD provider?
> 
> I have the Albuquerque HD locals but they wouldn't know HD from their elbow. I Have seen 1 episode each of Leno, Cops, and dancing with the stars in HD and nothing else. I wouldn't mind supporting my local channels if they supported me by giving me HD content. They didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my emails. The only reply I got was from KRQE CBS saying that they are in negotiations to get CBS-HD on Dish.


When I did a search on antennaweb.org it did not show that you have any HD locals. It shows only translators for the analog stations. It looks like you might be too far away from the transmitters to receive the HD OTA's. You may be able to get the HD locals from Alb. off E* sat. Is this problem or something else?


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## wwfmike (Jul 17, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> When I did a search on antennaweb.org it did not show that you have any HD locals. It shows only translators for the analog stations. It looks like you might be too far away from the transmitters to receive the HD OTA's. You may be able to get the HD locals from Alb. off E* sat. Is this problem or something else?


I can't even receive a decent analog OTA let alone HD ota in my area. But that wasn't what I was reffering to. I have the Alb HD Locals on Dish but they hardly broadcast any shows in HD. I was just wondering what areas have the best HD locals if I were to "move".


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Isn't it possible for DISH to trace your location via your phone number / the phone line hooked into your receiver?? I mean realistically I can't tell DISH I live in LA then have a phone number with a Detroit area code . . . right?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

As long as the number matches the one on your account they don't seem to be checking to make sure the number is valid for the service address. At the moment they seem to be more concerned with making sure that all the receivers on an account are in one location more than exactly where that location is. That doesn't mean that they won't, at some future time, add that test to the list of "problems" to look for with an account.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

James Long said:


> As long as the number matches the one on your account they don't seem to be checking to make sure the number is valid for the service address. At the moment they seem to be more concerned with making sure that all the receivers on an account are in one location more than exactly where that location is. That doesn't mean that they won't, at some future time, add that test to the list of "problems" to look for with an account.


If it was my business . . . I would be matching caller IDs and the DVR ID against the billing address during the nightly call-ins the machine does. Of course if you opt for the $6/month no phone line connected option there's no way to match anything.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

ebaltz said:


> It would be sweet, every single subscriber doing it, I mean what could Dish do, they couldn't possibly stop it and the customer will have spoken. All those laws are SO outdated as to be ridiculous.


They're still laws. Bad laws, yes. But still LAWS.


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