# L146 Spooling NOW!



## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I appear to be getting a software upgrade on my 921 right now.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Huh. Well, by all means tell us if you end up with L146 when it's done! (And I've had no word today that an update is coming today.)


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

Well, I am only basing this on the flashing power light which is what I saw during the last upgrade.


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

When I came back home from dropping my daughters off at Greek school I noticed my green power light flashing when I got back, does that mean anything?

My sys info still say L 145.
Thanks,
Alex


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

It is definitely the upgrade. Mine is on 11 of 30 now. It is about 15 minutes into the upgrade.


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

I am getting the update actually, has an elapsed time and says group 3 of 30, wow!
Cool, I am, excited!

Alex


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

When new software downloads from the satellite, the green power light flashes. You can go to the software update screen to see if anything's happening - Menu - 6 - 7 I believe.

I've got the call in to see if this is it or not.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

My power light is blinking too!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Wow, I'm actually shocked that this is coming today. 

If this is in fact L146, I'll try to get a list of official fixes to post.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

After it is finished, should we do a smart card reboot like after L145?


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

Please do Mark we are all excited to know what the fixes are, thanks buddy!
Alex


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I certainly plan to do a reset when it is finished.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Don't do a reset unless the software doesn't install on it's own. If when the software download is complete, it doesn't install, then do the reboot. We've done a lot of testing over the last 10 days to ensure that you shouldn't need to do the reboot.

I've got the request in for the official list of fixes from Eldon, but I won't have it until early tomorrow morning...unless they are still up at 1am there.

There are a couple of things that I can tell you though. I haven't had a random reboot since getting this version (or the previous one either). I haven't had an OTA recording fail when setting the timer pad options both to 0. And, discrete OFF is included now to go along with discrete ON.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

Finished. Just under 43 minutes. Got the message to power off to install. How long do I need to leave it off?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

It shouldn't take too long. 5 or 10 minutes. If at that point you turn it on, and are still on L145, do the smartcard reboot and that will force the installation.


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## TV Director (Feb 14, 2004)

What is the DISCRETE OFF and DISCRETE ON you're talking about? Thanks...


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks Mark. I hope I have to eat my words about the programmers.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

They are non-toggle power codes that can be used with a phillips pronto remote (or other ones possibly). Normally a single power button is a toggle, meaning you press it once and the device powers ON, press it again and the device powers OFF. With discrete codes, when you press ON, the device powers on if it's currently off, and does nothing if it's currently on. Same with OFF. They are very useful when programming macros to control your system with a programmable remote.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

BTW, if this is the same version that I'm currently running, your software version will be L146HECD-N.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

Download completed. The 921 asked for a power off to load the new software. I cold booted the unit. It came back up with a "Loading new software" banner followed by the X screen of death and then a soft boot giving the normal "Receiver is in stand-by. Booting..." banner.

I'm now on L146HECD-N

.....G


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Okay. If it is L1.46, the same version Mark has, can you tell us what the bug is that you were thinking would be a release stopper?? Seems we might have to deal with it now....

Hopefully I can change my stupid signature now too! :hurah:


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

grrr...read the directions! 

Ok, it's confirmed - L146 is here!


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

Ditto, except I did not get the X reboot. The blue light stayed on then I powered it up. Took a few seconds to come on. Version L1.46 as reported above.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The release stopper bug got fixed yesterday. The current bug to watch out for is with the Discrete HD/SD codes. They are exactly the same as was introduced with the 6000 last year.

Going to go search now for the description of them, and then I'll be back to tell you what to watch out for.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

OK, here's the description about how the discrete SD/HD codes work (from the original posted by Scott when version 777 was initially released for the 6000):

Detailed Operation:
The sequence should work as follows:

Sequence

Action

Response

1.Press and release the SD/HD toggle key.
The Receiver should immediately toggle its state (SD --> HD, or HD -->SD). This is normal operation.

2. a. Within two seconds of the above key press (the timer starts after the initial code is sent out) press the PAGE_UP key.

If the receiver is in the HD state then it should stay there. Otherwise, the receiver should transition to the HD state (HD --> HD, or SD --> HD).

2. b. (alternative to 2. a.) Within two seconds of the above key press (the timer starts after the initial code is sent out) press the PAGE_DOWN key.

If the receiver is in the SD state then it should stay there. Otherwise, the receiver should transition to the SD state (SD --> SD, or HD --> SD).

Note that the receiver may transition from SD --> HD --> SD if it starts out in SD and the customer gives it a discrete SD (SD/HD toggle, PAGE_DOWN) key sequence. This is because the normal toggle operation has not been inhibited.

Now, what to watch out for:

When you use the macro sequence for discrete HD, it appears that it forces the 921 into 480p, no matter what your setting was before using the sequence. So, be aware...


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

"Stretch Mode" is still nasty for 4x3 material on HD output. Overstretches badly and linear stretch is ugly. Vertical overscan on HD material is definitely better now as I can see from recorded HD-NET test pattern. Horizontal overscan is the same as v.1.45

.....G


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Now at 146. The overstretch with SD channels unfortunately has NOT been fixed.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

guruka said:


> "Stretch Mode" is still nasty for 4x3 material on HD output. Overstretches badly and linear stretch is ugly. Vertical overscan on HD material is definitely better now as I can see from recorded HD-NET test pattern. Horizontal overscan is the same as v.1.45
> 
> .....G


From what you are saying, it got worse!!?? If vertical is better, and horizontal is the same, things should look stretched even more then..


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

*If you run into any bugs (whether they are new ones or old ones) with L146, please post them in their own thread, titled

BUG REPORT L146: Bug Description

Thanks!*


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

jsanders said:


> From what you are saying, it got worse!!?? If vertical is better, and horizontal is the same, things should look stretched even more then..


The circle in the middle of the test pattern looks round. The vertical hatch mark was on 10 before and now is on 8. Still overscanning. It's all relative since the TV is set to about 3% overscan.

.....G


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

and the new fix list is?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Waiting for it - probably won't have the fix list until tomorrow.


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Waiting for it - probably won't have the fix list until tomorrow.


It still can't see the 105 with Superdish--so no locals for me


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

srrobinson2 said:


> It still can't see the 105 with Superdish--so no locals for me


 Wait a minute!! The check switch details still indicate a problem, but channel 7000 and my locals are here!!! Whoopee!  :hurah:


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

I think my download is having a problem. It shows an elapsed time of over 2 hours. I noticed that it got up to about 10 of 30 and then started over with 1 of 30. I think this thing has been trying to get it for awhile now (hence the 2 hour time). I wonder what I should do.

Edit: Well, I did a smartcard reboot and it seems to be taking the complete update now. We'll see.


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## Frank Z (Nov 15, 2002)

I have my 921 set up to automatically accept downloads, so I don't get to watch the process. It's not a big deal, though I would like to see what happens during the process.

After seeing the banner about the new software I checked my unit and did see version 146 listed. Then I tried to tune a local channel and there was a tremendous amount of pixelation. Next I tried to re-add the station and the 921 locked up hard. Had to force a reboot, we'll see what happens.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Some say must turn unit off to recieve 146, however, tech's say no? with unit on unit has not received 146. Have turned off for night to see if will be there in am. excited!


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Got home, and 1.46 was downloaded and installed! The big one I was hoping for didn't materialize though.  I tried to do an add DTV for KBHK, digital 45, it shows a signal strength of over 100, and it wouldn't add it to the channel list. I tried doing a "Scan DTV", and it wasn't added then either, although it added 18 channels, I usually get 17. No UPN this time......


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

My download got interrupted as well, I got off the phone with tech support and they told me to leave it off and after five minutes the flashing green light would come back on.
So in forty-five minutes to turn it back on and it would unpack all the packs of new data, well see if the download works this time.

Alex


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

Well my 921 took the download, but I didn't get a message to power off the unit until I went into the software menu where it said download was successful and to power off. I've tried powering off and nothing happened. Tried it twice and waited 15 to 20 minutes each time. Did a smartcard reboot and a message now says that it's "Installing new software. Please wait..." Then, the dreaded "X" came up and now it's rebooting again. Stay tuned...


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## Jim Kosinsky (Jul 20, 2003)

My experience: Just noticed this thread about 20min ago..went to check and the download was complete with a notice on the software menu to reboot to install. I shut off the 921, powered up again but no install--same notice, same revision 1.45...so I pulled the smartcard. It rebooted, showed 'installing new software' for a few minutes, then rebooted again. This time the 921 said it was in standby, rebooting...then nothing but the HD light. I waited a minute, hit the power button and the 921 was back to life with the new software  So far so good. Total process took about 15 minutes.


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## Ronald K (Jan 11, 2004)

Powering off did not install the new software. Unplugging it for a few seconds did.


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## MattG (Dec 31, 2003)

Looks like the green 'R' button turns off the 921 now so it seems that is acting as a discrete power off button. Previously it didn't do anything.


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

guruka said:


> and the new fix list is?


My OTA channels will now record in weekly mode with the 1 min before and 3 min after flag checked! They are getting better!!

Now about the OTA guide...


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

My new version did NOT auto-install on power-down. Pulled the smartcard while it was powered off, and the process began. 15 minutes later, I'm on L146. Already found a not-fixed bug. Will post as per Mark's request.


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> OK, here's the description about how the discrete SD/HD codes work (from the original posted by Scott when version 777 was initially released for the 6000):
> 
> Detailed Operation:
> The sequence should work as follows:
> ...


What is the use of this function?Still have no seperate aspect ratio settings for HD or SD?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I've been watching DVR recordings all evening since 8:20PM and just decided to check my sysinf and saw that the 146 had already upgraded on it's own. Must have happened while I was out to dinner. I missed all the excitement of watching the grass grow, er watching the download.


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

Stretch Mode In High Def Is Still Bad!


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

markcollins said:


> Stretch Mode In High Def Is Still Bad!


I must be missing something fundamental about the modes. I have a 16x9 (1080i) television, and I keep the aspect ratio in Normal and the tuner in HD mode all the time for all broadcasts. For HD content, it fills the screen, and for SD content, I have black bars on the sides, but it still looks great. This is normal, and I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

When I play DVDs in 4x3 ratio, they look just like the SD broadcasts, and the widescreen DVDs look like HD content. Seems okay to me.


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## rrg (Dec 19, 2003)

No sign of the update here as of 0740 ET on Friday; I'm still at L145.

Is it possible my unit has been overlooked? How long should I wait before calling Echostar?


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Mine was there when I woke up this morning. (I also had the blue light special.)

-Chris


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Try putting the 921 into standby mode for awhile. Turn it off tonight, and if you don't have it in the morning, make the call.


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

Got up this morning and noticed "blue" light only- ON. Turned on unit and checked to see if timers fired over night. The shows are listed in DVR. Turned unit back off and blue light came back on after about 5-10 seconds and stayed on. Had to go to work so that's the way I left it. Called wife at 10 a.m. to have her check to make sure her timer for soap fired (trust me, there would be major problems if it didn't) and she said the "red" light was on but the blue light is still on? Anybody else seeing the blue light on? Wondering if I should do a smartcard reboot when I get home. Any advice on this? Thanks, Gerry


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

PS: I thought the S/W udate was going to be tonight so I never gave any thought to that at all!!!!!


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

The Large red button on the 921 remote is a power toggle for the receiver. The small red button is still an IR code power toggle for my Hitachi TV. But now, with L1.46 the small red button also issues a UHF power off code to the receiver as well. So when I shut off the TV with the small red button, the 921 powers off too.

Hmmm. . . feature or bug? :scratchin

.....G


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

ggw2000 said:


> Got up this morning and noticed "blue" light only- ON. Turned on unit and checked to see if timers fired over night. The shows are listed in DVR. Turned unit back off and blue light came back on after about 5-10 seconds and stayed on. Had to go to work so that's the way I left it. Called wife at 10 a.m. to have her check to make sure her timer for soap fired (trust me, there would be major problems if it didn't) and she said the "red" light was on but the blue light is still on? Anybody else seeing the blue light on? Wondering if I should do a smartcard reboot when I get home. Any advice on this? Thanks, Gerry


Isn't the blue light always supposed to be on when the receiver has the HD outputs (DVI or component) selected? That is to say that if one doesn't use the SD/HD button, and keeps the receiver always in "HD" mode, isn't the blue light always on (and this is the correct functionality)?

Or is this specifically one of the items which was supposely addressed (i.e. a change to turn the blue light off when the receiver is in standby/off) in the latest software build?


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

Slordak said:


> Isn't the blue light always supposed to be on when the receiver has the HD outputs (DVI or component) selected? That is to say that if one doesn't use the SD/HD button, and keeps the receiver always in "HD" mode, isn't the blue light always on (and this is the correct functionality)?
> 
> Or is this specifically one of the items which was supposely addressed (i.e. a change to turn the blue light off when the receiver is in standby/off) in the latest software build?


Prior to this morning, when I powered off the reciever, the green and blue light always went off  . NO lights were on after power off.. Gerry


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

ggw2000 said:


> Prior to this morning, when I powered off the reciever, the green and blue light always went off  . NO lights were on after power off.. Gerry


Mine does just that (all lights are off when powered off) with L 1.46

.....G


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

srrobinson2 said:


> I must be missing something fundamental about the modes. I have a 16x9 (1080i) television, and I keep the aspect ratio in Normal and the tuner in HD mode all the time for all broadcasts. For HD content, it fills the screen, and for SD content, I have black bars on the sides, but it still looks great. This is normal, and I'm not sure what the fuss is about.


I do the same thing and have also been wondering what all the fuss is about.

I think some folks want to stretch SD to 16x9, and that's where the problems are.

-Keith


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

keitheva said:


> I do the same thing and have also been wondering what all the fuss is about.
> 
> I think some folks want to stretch SD to 16x9, and that's where the problems are.
> 
> -Keith


You got it. The nice non-linear 'expand' mode on my HDTV doesn't work with 1080i or 720p HD input. It does work with 480p input, hence the switching back and forth between 1080i and 480p HD output from the 921. All this is because the 921's 'stretch' mode is way too ugly to watch. For those of us for whom burn-in is an issue (plamas, RPTV's and CRT's) it's nice to have the choice to watch 4x3 content on a 16x9 screen in either normal aspect ratio (with bars) or expanded to full screen. I watch both ways.

.....G


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

On The Money! Burn In Is An Issue!


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

guruka said:


> "Stretch Mode" is still nasty for 4x3 material on HD output. Overstretches badly and linear stretch is ugly. Vertical overscan on HD material is definitely better now as I can see from recorded HD-NET test pattern. Horizontal overscan is the same as v.1.45
> 
> .....G


What T.V are you testing this on?

Thanks


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

markcollins said:


> What is the use of this function?Still have no seperate aspect ratio settings for HD or SD?


I agree. SD should remain 480i on this box, but I look forward to discrete HD mode codes...At least one for 720p since that is all I use!


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

markcollins said:


> Stretch Mode In High Def Is Still Bad!


Stretch mode is always ugly; I would advise purchasing something that doesn't "burn in" so you do not have to worry about this. I myself waited for larger LCD/DLP's b/c I wanted 720p/DVI w/HDCP and I knew Plasma screens burn in. It was well worth the wait! I do not have to worry about warping an image to prevent burn in and can even play video games in HD and not worry about ruining my screen.

I guess my point is if there is room for improvement, I am all for it - but I would like to see other things fixed before they start manipulating video b/c of a problem with mainly first generation HD technology.. I hope more people purchase newer technology as I am sure the providers will start requiring HDCP soon anyway's making most of the T.V's w/o HDMI/DVI-HDCP useless and imagine the complaints you will hear when this starts.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

thevoice said:


> Stretch mode is always ugly; I would advise purchasing something that doesn't "burn in" so you do not have to worry about this. .... I would like to see other things fixed before they start manipulating video b/c of a problem with mainly first generation HD technology


Great. You are telling everyone *else* to buy better equipment so that the programmers can work on your bugs first! hmmmm.

I can't tune KBHK (UPN) in my area, even though it works on the 6000, and has a signal srength of over 100 on the 921. It won't add it to the channel list. Maybe it does work in your area, so does that mean that the developers shouldn't consider this a priority either??

Maybe we don't have the money to buy better stuff.

As far as the stretch problem goes, it is bad, and it is a priority to fix for the *rest* of us. It isn't an issue of just looking bad, it isn't scaled properly. If you look at the edge of the picture in 4x3 mode, then stretch it for 16x9 mode, you will notice that that portion of the 4x3 picture is actually gone! It stretches it past the 16x9 screen edges! That is why it looks so bad.


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

jsanders said:


> Great. You are telling everyone *else* to buy better equipment so that the programmers can work on your bugs first! hmmmm.


I am just trying to open others eyes to what "Priorities" maybe. Never asked for these guys to work on any bugs that I maybe having but from looking at the ones that seem to exist , I wouldn't count this as being a "showstopper". 
This is why I mentioned when they have the time, yes get to fixing stretch modes but I would like to see the time used more wisely and problems such as random rebooting and OTA should be addressed first in my book.

As you may/may not be, I am an old school ASM coder(65816/Z80/8086/68k) and have debugged many things in my life. I (and as many others in #ASM) like to talk about debugging and despite what others may think - we like to work from the core (CPU/BLITTER/BOOTSTRAP etc.) up to the GUI/etc... Not the other way around and mysteriously many of the other bugs work themselves out! This is done by setting something similar to a "Priority" level and the same goes over @ sourceforge - from being an Admin/overseer in so many groups there and setting priority levels, I wouldn't rate this one as being as high as you seem to think it is, my opinion though.

Sorry you took the other message so personal, I was merely trying to give another perspective in what priorities maybe to Dish over our own. I have no doubt Echo will address these minor issues that so many of us complain about - I just hope it is sooner than later.

I still will not get away from buying a DLP or LCD - best investment I ever made. If you have a 921 and HD already, you should have the money anyway (well this maybe another priority issue, never-mind)..


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

thevoice said:


> Stretch mode is always ugly; I would advise purchasing something that doesn't "burn in" so you do not have to worry about this. I myself waited for larger LCD/DLP's b/c I wanted 720p/DVI w/HDCP and I knew Plasma screens burn in. It was well worth the wait! I do not have to worry about warping an image to prevent burn in and can even play video games in HD and not worry about ruining my screen.
> 
> I guess my point is if there is room for improvement, I am all for it - but I would like to see other things fixed before they start manipulating video b/c of a problem with mainly first generation HD technology.. I hope more people purchase newer technology as I am sure the providers will start requiring HDCP soon anyway's making most of the T.V's w/o HDMI/DVI-HDCP useless and imagine the complaints you will hear when this starts.


I'm glad you found happiness in a DLP. I found the DLPs I looked at to be lacking in many areas. The plasma is what made me happy. And yes, I'm aware of it's burn it and I deal with it. One way I deal with it is to stretch less critical 4:3 viewing content. Dish equipment provides a stretch with a 1080 and 720 signal. That's an important feature for me and many others. It's a feature that is advertised as being part of Dish's HD equipment and therefore it should work correctly and it should be a high priority item to get fixed. The fact that it doesn't interest you isn't a reason to slam everyone who does have a need for this. Time for you to get off your arrogant high horse and stop criticizing others as if you made the only possible choice in which kind of display one should buy. Sheesh, will some people never learn? I guess so.

BTW, as far as your comments about people with 921s being able to afford better equipment, my plasma is a Pioneer Elite 1000. You know how much it costs, don't you. I could have gone the cheaper DLP route as you did, but I could afford the better technology and that's what I did.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

thevoice said:


> I am just trying to open others eyes to what "Priorities" maybe. Never asked for these guys to work on any bugs that I maybe having but from looking at the ones that seem to exist , I wouldn't count this as being a "showstopper".
> This is why I mentioned when they have the time, yes get to fixing stretch modes but I would like to see the time used more wisely and problems such as random rebooting and OTA should be addressed first in my book.
> ....
> I wouldn't rate this one as being as high as you seem to think it is, my opinion though


Have you had any random reboots, or OTA issues since 1.46 was released? It is supposed to be a stability release. I agree, these things are important, the highest priority. For the most part, it should be a whole lot more stable now. I still have the OTA issue of not being able to recognize UPN, but hopefully that is it. Time to work on some more things now.

People are clamoring for the aspect ratios to be fixed, and guide data to be added!

As far as programming goes, lots of us are programmers on this board. It doesn't mean too much if we aren't doing the source code for the 921, although we can do our best at trying to describe how to reproduce certain bugs, to make the debugger's job easier!

It does sound like you are an old school programmer. It is nice to work from the core (up to the GUI), but i am weary of bugs just magically working themselves out. The 921 isn't a simple embedded controller either. I prefer to start looking through the code where I think the problem is, which may or may not be in the core. You can do a great job and make a stable kernel, but if the GUi person has a run away pointer and writes over your core data structures, you're hosed! It is interesting to note that in this case, the lock up issue was fixed by changing the chip. It wasn't the software, it was verilog or VHDL that made the image to change the chip. Going through assembly code, C code, or class libraries wouldn't have fixed it.

As far as priority levels go, it is a must. Fortunately, we aren't the ones that set them. I would love to know what their bug priority list is though....

From 1.46, with stability issues and most of the OTA bugs fixed, what do you think the priority is now?? I do think the stretch issue is a priority (with a lot of others), but not as big as stability either (hopefully you noticed my signature about rebooting the 921).


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

thevoice said:


> What T.V are you testing this on?


It's a Hitachi 51SWX20B using the DVI (digital) input.

.....G


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

keitheva said:


> I do the same thing and have also been wondering what all the fuss is about.
> 
> I think some folks want to stretch SD to 16x9, and that's where the problems are.
> 
> -Keith


The few of us who have 4:3 HDTVs that accept 720p and 1080i have a problem in that the modes do not display 4:3 material correctly on a 4:3 HDTV when the 921 is set to 720p or 1080i. The picture is either distorted or has a picture frame of black bars around the image. Since the display options menu allows selection of resolution as well as screen types, it should display both 16:9 and 4:3 material correctly for the screen type selected.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Have you had any random reboots, or OTA issues since 1.46 was released?
> <snip>
> As far as priority levels go, it is a must. Fortunately, we aren't the ones that set them. I would love to know what their bug priority list is though....
> 
> From 1.46, with stability issues and most of the OTA bugs fixed, what do you think the priority is now?? I do think the stretch issue is a priority (with a lot of others), but not as big as stability either (hopefully you noticed my signature about rebooting the 921).


I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with thevoice on this one. L146 hasn't been out long enough to determine stability, and I haven't noticed any improvement in the OTA issues that concerned me, but it's still too early to really tell on that either. These are things that affect *all* of us.

I think it's fair to say that most of the people who are early adopters of this technology do so because they want to see the pure unadulterated picture as close to the way the director intended it to be seen as possible, and that does *not* include stretching it out of proportion, no matter how well the stretching is done. I have no problem with black bars on 4x3 content, and I think the gray bars mode is an excellent option for people worried about burn-in. I'll bet you'd find that most people who own plasmas (not on this forum, of course) aren't even aware it's an issue. They're more concerned about the WAF.

I just want to see my 921 perform as well as my 501, except with the capability of displaying and recording HD content.

(In the spirit of full disclosure, I admit I also own a DLP, but I waited to purchase anything until the 921 was announced.)

-Chris


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

4HiMarks said:


> I think it's fair to say that most of the people who are early adopters of this technology do so because they want to see the pure unadulterated picture as close to the way the director intended it to be seen as possible, and that does *not* include stretching it out of proportion, no matter how well the stretching is done. I have no problem with black bars on 4x3 content, and I think the gray bars mode is an excellent option for people worried about burn-in. ........
> 
> (In the spirit of full disclosure, I admit I also own a DLP, but I waited to purchase anything until the 921 was announced.)
> 
> -Chris


Hi Chris,

I think we are on the same page about stability issues, I think I've mentioned that to be a priority a few times. So far, 1.46 looks a lot better to me, except for not being able to tune KBHK (UPN).

I bought my direct view TV to watch HDTV with its brillient clarity! Watching 4x3 SD content is not the resaon why I bought the TV. From that point, there will be a whole variety of opinions on what people will do and why. It is very presumptuous to say that most people will decide to watch SD unstretched.

As far as the argument goes, the ONLY problem I had with previous statements was telling people they should buy an expensive projector to solve the problem. I spent $1000 on the 921, and it should do a better job with stretching.

The stability issues affect all of us, and I think that the stretching issues affect most of us. They are both important issues!


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

jsanders said:


> Have you had any random reboots, or OTA issues since 1.46 was released? It is supposed to be a stability release. I agree, these things are important, the highest priority.


I was over at a friends and his 921 just random rebooted tonight (L146). Right in the middle of watching a PVR event - I would consider this priority!


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

thevoice said:


> I was over at a friends and his 921 just random rebooted tonight (L146). Right in the middle of watching a PVR event - I would consider this priority!


Me too!


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## thevoice (Sep 24, 2002)

Jerry G said:


> I'm glad you found happiness in a DLP. I found the DLPs I looked at to be lacking in many areas.
> I could have gone the cheaper DLP route as you did, but I could afford the better technology and that's what I did.


I actually have a 910 in my living room and have some issues @ the higher altitude, not to forget a slight blue burn in (not very noticeable though) I made the decision though and can live with it and don't regret it. As for DLP, I do not have one of these - I actually own a xbr900 LCD (for mainly video game's so no burn in) but think DLP is great technology and still give a thumbs up though to those whom are considering purchasing DLP, mainly for the price.

Yes and the 1000 is a great set and I have no doubt in your happiness w/ it.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

4HiMarks said:


> I think it's fair to say that most of the people who are early adopters of this technology do so because they want to see the pure unadulterated picture as close to the way the director intended it to be seen as possible, and that does *not* include stretching it out of proportion, no matter how well the stretching is done. I have no problem with black bars on 4x3 content, and I think the gray bars mode is an excellent option for people worried about burn-in. I'll bet you'd find that most people who own plasmas (not on this forum, of course) aren't even aware it's an issue. They're more concerned about the WAF.
> 
> (In the spirit of full disclosure, I admit I also own a DLP, but I waited to purchase anything until the 921 was announced.)
> 
> -Chris


Oh no, not another person trying to assume that he can read my mind and know my desires. I'm the earliest of the early adopters, and NO one that buys an HD set today can be considered an early adopter. My first HD set was purchased in Aug. 1998 before there even were any HD broadcasts. There weren't any progressive DVD players at that time. I now have a plasma. Regarding OAR, yes I'm a purist in that I want to watch movies in their original aspect ratio. But when I put on CNN, I really don't care if it's distorted when I stretch it. And if you really understood burn in, you'd know that gray bars instead of black make a very small difference in burn in.

Dish has advertised and promoted their aspect modes on their HD equipment. We've reasonably come to expect them. And they should work correctly. The stretch in the 921 should look just like the stretch in the 6000 and 811. It doesn't. It needs to be fixed, and it should be a high priority item. Unlike others, I don't buy a display to avoid burn in. I won't accept a lesser quality DLP display to avoid burn in. I buy what gives the best picture, and that's a plasma. I have no problem dealing with the burn in issues. And one way I do that is to use the stretch for certain programming. Please don't tell me how to watch programming and what display to purchase. I've had a lot more experience watching programming on a widescreen set than most.


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

I have had no problems so far with L 146, I am hoping we can get away from the once a day reboot rule.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

I don't understand all of the hoopla over stretching.

If you just use zoom mode to watch 4:3 on a 16:9 display then there won't be any burn in, period, or any black bars for that matter. Problems solved. The only issue I've encountered is with some subtitles that get partially obscured at the bottom.

Please don't bother me with OAR and watching what the director intended, either. There is very little 4:3 material that merits watching in OAR.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

tm22721 said:


> I don't understand all of the hoopla over stretching.
> 
> If you just use zoom mode to watch 4:3 on a 16:9 display then there won't be any burn in, period, or any black bars for that matter. Problems solved. The only issue I've encountered is with some subtitles that get partially obscured at the bottom.
> 
> Please don't bother me with OAR and watching what the director intended, either. There is very little 4:3 material that merits watching in OAR.


Sure, but 'Zoom" mode should be named 'Zooooooooooooooom' mode. It overzooms. I guess what we're looking for is a zoom mode that is a bit more conservative and a stretch mode that either does a nonlinear expand (stretching the sides of the picture more than the middle) or does the absolute minimum stretch necessary to make 4x3 material reach the left and right sides of a 16x9 display.

.....G


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

tm22721 said:


> I don't understand all of the hoopla over stretching.
> 
> If you just use zoom mode to watch 4:3 on a 16:9 display then there won't be any burn in, period, or any black bars for that matter. Problems solved. The only issue I've encountered is with some subtitles that get partially obscured at the bottom.
> 
> Please don't bother me with OAR and watching what the director intended, either. There is very little 4:3 material that merits watching in OAR.


If you use the zoom on 4:3 material, you lose top and bottom content. The stretch fills the side while preserving the top and bottom, that is if the stretch worked correctly with SD channels on the 921. Now it vastly overstretches, losing side content.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Have you ever seen the non-linear stretch on a 100" screen with a slow horizantal camera pan. Objects change size as they move between the sides and center of the screen. Kinda makes me sea-sick.


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## beemer58 (Feb 3, 2004)

As an amateur, (have my HDTV two weeks) with the 921 I agree the stretch mode is lousy. Haven't had any gray x screen crashes since the 146, but have had other "freeze ups" usually with ota channels. After experimenting I found that SD looks best connected via SVID on a non HD input set in 480i and viewed in letterbox format. I view HD on DVI, and DVD over component. Both HD and DVD are amazing. SD is much better in the above settings.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

David_Levin said:


> Have you ever seen the non-linear stretch on a 100" screen with a slow horizantal camera pan. Objects change size as they move between the sides and center of the screen. Kinda makes me sea-sick.


Hehe, true. Kind of like a fisheye lens. But I've gotten used to it now and no longer need the barf bag by my chair :lol:

I just use that mode for non-critical 4:3 content, which is most 4:3 TV.

DVD's with 4:3 content like classic movies I like to watch in OAR. But if it's a DVD of a TV show, I often zoom in and move the image down vertically 4 'clicks' and watch a fullscreen image.

.....G


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