# How's My Grounding?



## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

Thank you to all for the excellent advice and help. With the arrival of summer lighting storms I am attempting to try to make sure my ground is OK. Based on the conversations here it seems disputed weather or not a ground is even necessary, but I might as well be cautious.

Attached you will see my white coax cable led off from the ground block to the green #10 copper wire that clamps to my ground at my electric box. This is done on the inside of my home, as that is where the main electric ground is located.

Please let me know if this looks OK, or any serious problems you see. Your comments would be appreciated.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Is the dish itself grounded?

And grounding is not for lightning strike protection.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Is the dish itself grounded?
> 
> And grounding is not for lightning strike protection.


I would agree, be sure there is a wire from the ground to the dish. Do not depend on the shielding to ground the dish


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Is the dish itself grounded?
> 
> And grounding is not for lightning strike protection.


Absolutely run a wire from the dish to the groundblock to do what you can for your dish. This is used to dissipate static that collects during normal operation of your dish, and provides marginal protection from nearby strikes that energize the air.

Also, as noted above, grounding is NOT for direct lightning strikes. If lightning actually strikes your dish directly, once the firemen put your house out, a couple popped tv's and receivers are going to be the least of your problem. Lightning just laughs at that tiny little wire that is used for grounding.

Unlike cable tv and telephone services where your house is connected to a wire that's connected to a wire that's on a pole that runs for tens of miles where a lightning strike 5 miles from you can send a tiny little surge down your particular piece of the line where a ground block with proper house bond can deal with that surge. the only way lightning get's into your satellite service is if your house is struck proper, something in the immediate proximity to your house is struck and the system absorbs a little jolt from the air, or it feeds back into your sat system through the house electrical or the phone lines.


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

netraa said:


> Absolutely run a wire from the dish to the groundblock to do what you can for your dish. This is used to dissipate static that collects during normal operation of your dish, and provides marginal protection from nearby strikes that energize the air.
> 
> Also, as noted above, grounding is NOT for direct lightning strikes. If lightning actually strikes your dish directly, once the firemen put your house out, a couple popped tv's and receivers are going to be the least of your problem. Lightning just laughs at that tiny little wire that is used for grounding.
> 
> Unlike cable tv and telephone services where your house is connected to a wire that's connected to a wire that's on a pole that runs for tens of miles where a lightning strike 5 miles from you can send a tiny little surge down your particular piece of the line where a ground block with proper house bond can deal with that surge. the only way lightning get's into your satellite service is if your house is struck proper, something in the immediate proximity to your house is struck and the system absorbs a little jolt from the air, or it feeds back into your sat system through the house electrical or the phone lines.


Interesting. So what is the point of grounding the dish directly? Does it just protect the satellite from damage?


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Rocko62580 said:


> Interesting. So what is the point of grounding the dish directly? Does it just protect the satellite from damage?


It protects from nearby strikes, where your dish might pick up a significant, but smaller surge. It also gives a common ground to all the components in your system, so that if there is a voltage difference or a fault somewhere, the electricity has somewhere safe (ground) to go instead of unsafe (your tv, your hand, your house, etc)


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

JosephB said:


> It protects from nearby strikes, where your dish might pick up a significant, but smaller surge. It also gives a common ground to all the components in your system, so that if there is a voltage difference or a fault somewhere, the electricity has somewhere safe (ground) to go instead of unsafe (your tv, your hand, your house, etc)


Thank you! Does the current installation picture look ok minus the lack of dish grounding?


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Rocko62580 said:


> Thank you! Does the current installation picture look ok minus the lack of dish grounding?


I'm not an electrician nor am I a certified satellite installer. However, at two different houses where I've lived and had DirecTV install my system, and everything I've read, says that your coax should be grounded at a ground block at the point of entry to the main ground for your house. The dish should be tied into that common ground as well. So, as an armchair electrician, I think you're in good shape as long as you get the dish itself grounded to that same ground block.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

This thread reminded me to call DIRECTV about my installation. I noticed recently that the installer that installed my AU-9 a while back didn't ground my dish properly. All he did was ground the SWM splitter. I have an appointment set up for them to *properly* gorund my dish.

EDIT: By the way, while the ground wire won't protect you from a direct lightning strike, it's still a good idea to ground it outside at the main house ground. You'd be surprised just how much current a 16 guage wire can carry for a really short period of time. I think Id rather not have that coming inside my house. Enough of the electricity will be as it is, no need for any more.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

Your ground is OK but could be better.



If possible running a ground wire from the dish to the main house ground outside your home may divert the main flash from coming inside your house. 

In my book there are two kinds of lightning "finger and bolt" finger is easily diverted and and with a bolt all bets are off if it contacts your home.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Matt9876 said:


> Your ground is OK but could be better.
> 
> If possible running a ground wire from the dish to the main house ground outside your home may divert the main flash from coming inside your house.
> 
> In my book there are two kinds of lightning "finger and bolt" finger is easily diverted and and with a bolt all bets are off if it contacts your home.


is the Bolt type the one that brought Frankenstein's Monster to life??? :sure:


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Is the dish attached to the home or a pole mount?


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

Matt9876 said:


> Your ground is OK but could be better.
> 
> If possible running a ground wire from the dish to the main house ground outside your home may divert the main flash from coming inside your house.
> 
> In my book there are two kinds of lightning "finger and bolt" finger is easily diverted and and with a bolt all bets are off if it contacts your home.


Interesting. My only concern (or problem) is a live in a multi-unit condo, so I don't have a specific ground rod, just a seperate electrical box located on the inside of my house. I will definately ground the dish itself, but will it be a big problem if I keep the ground block on the inside of my house, near the electrical box?


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## johns70 (May 2, 2010)

Rocko62580 said:


> Interesting. So what is the point of grounding the dish directly? Does it just protect the satellite from damage?


The satellites are up in space. The grounding at your house won't protect them.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

johns70 said:


> The satellites are up in space. The grounding at your house won't protect them.


grounding is unneeded for the satellites, as there is no lighting in space????


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

johns70 said:


> The satellites are up in space. The grounding at your house won't protect them.





curt8403 said:


> grounding is unneeded for the satellites, as there is no lighting in space????


What would 22k miles of 16 guage copper wire run you? :lol:


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> What would 22k miles of 16 guage copper wire run you? :lol:


 because of the extremely long run, wouldn't you need 4 gauge?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

curt8403 said:


> because of the extremely long run, wouldn't you need 4 gauge?


Good point.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

You want to ground it to the main ground for your house anyway, not because of it coming inside or outside (some houses are ground inside on the water pipe anyway, which is not in code now, but was years ago), but because if you have two different grounds, you can get voltage differences between equipment which can cause shorts. If there's a different path to ground between your dish, receiver, and TV and there is a fault somewhere, then you could fry everything in the chain.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

have you ever seen the weird freaky copper plates that they nail to the bottom of a wooden power pole before they bury it?
those things are huge.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

The main reason for providing an equipment ground outside on an external appliance is because of the lightning strike possibility.

you do not want a wire from your dish that is used for ground inside your house, if it does get struck, your going to have small balls of molten copper falling down from what's left of the wire and that is a fire hazard on top of the usual fire hazard from all the other things that are melting under the onslaught.


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## johns70 (May 2, 2010)

netraa said:


> you do not want a wire from your dish that is used for ground inside your house, if it does get struck, your going to have small balls of molten copper falling down from what's left of the wire and that is a fire hazard on top of the usual fire hazard from all the other things that are melting under the onslaught.


Like someone else said, if your dish gets hit by lightning the house is probably gonna be on fire. The condition of your satellite dish and DIRECTV receiver(s) is probably gonna be the least of your worries.


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

armophob said:


> Is the dish attached to the home or a pole mount?


It's attached to the home.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> This thread reminded me to call DIRECTV about my installation. I noticed recently that the installer that installed my AU-9 a while back didn't ground my dish properly. All he did was ground the SWM splitter. I have an appointment set up for them to *properly* gorund my dish.


I just had my Whole Home upgrade and got a new antenna, etc. The installer made a comment that the previous installer had failed to ground the antenna or splitter properly. I saw him ground the dish and the new SWiM by taking the paint off a strip of my service line pipe, cleaning the metal and attaching a ground strap with a thick piece of wire making the connection. I was a bit surprised to find out that it had not been grounded.

(My antenna is attached to a wall that surrounds my yard, so it is both hidden from a view and has a great line-of-sight.)


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

What type of cable should be used to ground the dish?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Rocko62580 said:


> What type of cable should be used to ground the dish?


Either the messenger ground wire attached to the coax coming from the dish, or 16 guage ground wire.


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

Will this work? I dont think its aluminum or copper, just regular wire.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Rocko62580 said:


> Will this work? I dont think its aluminum or copper, just regular wire.


 those are usually copper blend, and it should work


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## mobouser (May 23, 2007)

I installed a ground rod 10ft copper into ground by my pole/deck mounted satellite with #8AWG Green color wire. Home depot has the ground rod for about 20 or less. The NEC code requires you to run the grounding to the interior of the house. I personally don't want a lightning strike going through my home and so I put in a separate exterior ground. On the interior you should ground to your water pipe coming into your house I would use at least #12AWG.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

mobouser said:


> I installed a ground rod 10ft copper into ground by my pole/deck mounted satellite with #8AWG Green color wire. Home depot has the ground rod for about 20 or less. The NEC code requires you to run the grounding to the interior of the house. I personally don't want a lightning strike going through my home and so I put in a separate exterior ground. On the interior you should ground to your water pipe coming into your house I would use at least #12AWG.


Very, very bad advice. You have created two different grounds which will result in massive voltage differentials across them, should a nearby strike happen.

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!, thinking you are improving your protection against near stroke events or worse yet, direct hits.

Grounding needs to follow the *Single Point Grounding* protocols, if there is to be any lightning mitigation. Doing this improperly may increase the the likelihood of damage or injury. More grounds are NOT better.

To learn about proper grounding technique, consult this reference:

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-lightning-protection.htm

Grounding for human safety (ground fault issues) is easy. Grounding for lightning mitigation is much, much more involved, and the risks of employing half baked techniques is quite high.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

The subject of grounding is very popular in the tech forums, you will normally end up with 5 or 6 full pages of information on the subject anytime someone starts talking about it.

The NEC has rules about grounding that seem to vary a bit across the country,Local codes override national codes.


I have spent more than 10 years in southern Florida "The lightning capitol of the world" ,I've seen what works and what fails.

A ground block will 9 times out of 10 times save the indoor equipment,I personally like to see the ground block outside the home and bonded to the main house ground,nothing will normally save the LNB on the dish.

Surge suppression power strips will literally explode and leave stuff all over the floor that looks like tissue paper,using a whole house surge suppressor mounted in the electrical box ($200-$500) provides the best protection but also using surge power strips with phone surge protection will add an extra level of protection to your valuable electronics.

Keeping the lightning on the outside of your home is a good thing,Lightning rods and extra ground wires help if bonded back to the main house ground.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Matt9876 said:


> Keeping the lightning on the outside of your home is a good thing,Lightning rods and extra ground wires help if bonded back to the main house ground.


That is the classic description of a Single Point Ground. It's not lightning per se, that is the problem. What is critical is that the ground reference point float up and down with the massive surges *together*. If "banded back to the main house ground" properly, one has a single point ground and that is as good as protection as one can get. The issue then becomes how does one "properly" bond the grounding system together. This must be done with low impedance to *RF* wires. The surge/pulse is RF not DC (direct current), so impedance paths along ground must be kept as low as possible (read as large wires or flat copper straps, and properly joined wires).

Most people think of lightning damage as a DC (direct current) problem. It is not. It is an RF (radio frequency) problem, and AC impedance is king.

One last point: NEC grounding is only looking at a safety ground, to prevent *personal* electrocution. It is not aware of, nor does it attempt to address the larger secondary issues caused by the RF currents contained in both a lightning strike, and induced surges that accompany them.

As an example:

I was standing next to our air conditioning unit (central) when a nice strong lightning stroke happened about 1/4 mile away. A wire was hanging from a copper pipe over head (it was about 10" long). At the strike a spark jumped over a foot of horizontal distance from the end of the wire to the air conditioning vent. This was not a direct hit. It was a surge caused by the strong RF field cutting across a wire (or pipe for that matter), that represented a high impedance compared to the AC vent. It jumped from the high impedance wire to the low impedance massive vent structure, seeking the lowest impedance path to ground.

If the copper pipe/wire/vent had been bonded together in a low impedance single point ground, there would have been no flash-over/spark. Hence the point of emphasis on a single point ground.

Always remember to differentiate between a National Electric Code *safety* ground, and the much more dangerous to our equipment *low impedance RF* ground. Doing the former protects little, if it all when it comes to equipment, but could save your life. Doing the latter, *automatically takes care of the former, saving both your life and your equipment*.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I would recommend at least an 8 AWG copper or aluminum between the dish, ground block, and the home's main electrical service ground rod. The National Electrical Code (NEC) is very specific on how satellite and cable TV systems are to be grounded. See NEC parts 810 and 820. From my experiences, D*, E*, and the cable companies do not follow the NEC properly and leave many customer's installations exposed to failure and/or damage.

Ideally, the dish and ground block should be within 10' (3m) of the ground block. DO NOT put two wires under the same ground clamp on the ground rod. Each grounding wire requires a separate ground clamp. Should the dish and/or ground block be over 10' (3m) from the home's main grounding system (rod), you should drive another 8' ground rod adjacent to the dish and ground block and then you must bond the new ground rod to the home's main electrical service grounding system with, IIRC, at least 8 AWG or larger. Bonding the individual ground rods ensures that there is no difference in potential between the two. When you have two parts of a circuit under different potentials, charge can flow (aka current).

As others have stated, grounding the system isn't to protect the dish and IRDs from a direct lightning strike (as nothing will), but will help do a few things:

1. Discharge energy from the system in case of a nearby strike or other malfunction, and,
2. Discharge built-up charge from the system from simple wind movement around the dish. Wind simply blowing across the satellite dish can allow a charge to accumulate on the dish. A proper grounding system will dissipate this charge.

If in doubt, I would recommend consulting a qualified and licensed electrician who is fluent in NEC parts 810 and 820. Not being familiar with the NEC and doing it yourself can have bad consequences.

(I am an electrical engineer and an electrical inspector).


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

Thanks all the great info! It sounds like grounding the dish is only to protect the dish itself. Is it, or is it not done for ANY safety purposes? Do most people ground their dish, or just their cable?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Rocko62580 said:


> Thanks all the great info! It sounds like grounding the dish is only to protect the dish itself. Is it, or is it not done for ANY safety purposes? Do most people ground their dish, or just their cable?


The grounding required by the NEC is for personal safety, i.e., the prevention of electrocution. It has nothing to do with RF grounding (the lack of which is what kills most electronic equipment). An NEC ground is required to meet code in most jurisdictions. An RF ground is required to protect your equipment. As it turns out, a properly configured RF ground (read as Single Point Grounding System) exceeds the NEC requirement.

The problem is that a properly configured RF ground is not easy. So most people follow the NEC guidelines and take their chances. Grounding a dish does not protect against lightning or lightning induced damage. It does, however prevent you from getting killed due to an electrical fault in your system. A single wire ground on your dish, floating all by itself provides no lightning mitigation whatsoever (for itself, or the rest of your equipment).

That dish ground needs to be interconnected with all the other grounds in a specific way (called a Single Point Grounding System) in order to protect electronic equipment. It's that simple.

Ground your equipment according to the NEC, it will protect lives. A reasonable sized wire from the dish directly to a ground rod will suffice. (There are specs for both wire size and rod length/diamater as well as clamping methods in the NEC, as I recall).

SUMMARY:

Ground it according to the Single Point Ground protocols and it will not only protect lives, but have the best chance of protecting your equipment as well. Doing a safety ground is mandatory (NEC) in most locations.


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## Rocko62580 (Sep 3, 2006)

hasan said:


> The grounding required by the NEC is for personal safety, i.e., the prevention of electrocution. It has nothing to do with RF grounding (the lack of which is what kills most electronic equipment). An NEC ground is required to meet code in most jurisdictions. An RF ground is required to protect your equipment. As it turns out, a properly configured RF ground (read as Single Point Grounding System) exceeds the NEC requirement.
> 
> The problem is that a properly configured RF ground is not easy. So most people follow the NEC guidelines and take their chances. Grounding a dish does not protect against lightning or lightning induced damage. It does, however prevent you from getting killed due to an electrical fault in your system. A single wire ground on your dish, floating all by itself provides no lightning mitigation whatsoever (for itself, or the rest of your equipment).
> 
> ...


Ok. I am getting it. Again, what is the difference between NEC, and RF ground?


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Rocko62580 said:


> Ok. I am getting it. Again, what is the difference between NEC, and RF ground?


NEC is National Electrical Code and refers to Power grounding

RF is Radio Frequency Grounding and is a different code because of the high frequencies involved


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Rocko62580 said:


> Ok. I am getting it. Again, what is the difference between NEC, and RF ground?


NEC is personal safety ground. It is a wire from the device to "ground" (but not a very good ground, just good enough to prevent you from electrocuting yourself if there is a fault in your electrical system)

RF ground mitigates lightning induced damage as well as meeting NEC requirements, but is more demanding to install. I provided a link in an earlier post that discusses RF grounding (Single Point Grounding).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rocko62580 said:


> Thanks all the great info! It sounds like grounding the dish is only to protect the dish itself. Is it, or is it not done for ANY safety purposes? Do most people ground their dish, or just their cable?


Probably just their cables. And using the D* ground block connected to a cold water copper pipe is acceptable if your whole house uses copper wire. Newer houses may contain plastic water piping and that cannot conduct electricity.

As for the #16 AWG copper wire, forget that. Use at least #10 AWG wire. For grounding rods, you can use five foot, three quarter inch solid copper stakes. These can be driven in vertically or buried horizontally (I don't remember the depth, but it's nowhere near five feet). You can buy them at several web sites. I've lived in my home for 25 years and I still can't find the original ground post. The solid copper stake is a good way to go. If it works in a chemical plant, it's fine in a domestic setting. All you have to do is bond it to the house ground which can be done at several points.

As a previous poster or two has noted, if lightning decides to strike your home, you're screwed and that piddly little ground wire is not gonna help you. Nothing stops that amount of juice from doing what it feels like doing.

Rich


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

8' ground rods should be used and have 8' of continuous ground contact, not 5'. Read the code. A copper pipe sticking out of the yard is also acceptable for grounding purposes only if there is 8' or more of contact of the pipe with the earth.

Also, for a proper electrical ground, if you are going to be using the home's plumbing, ensure:
1. The entire home is copper pipe, no galvanized steel, and
2. A proper bonding jumper exists across the water meter.

If you have CPVC, Polybutylene (PB), PEX, etc. pipe, do not use this type of system. Ground the system only to the home's main electrical grounding system (normally located directly below the electrical meter) or a 2ndary ground rod bonded to the main electrical system grounding system.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

n3ntj said:


> 8' ground rods should be used and have 8' of continuous ground contact, not 5'. Read the code.


You read the code, I've been an electrician too long to have someone tell me that. You're reading the part about the service ground rod that is initially put in when the house is built. You can also read the many books that explain the NEC and perhaps that will help you with your confusion. I stuck too many five foot pure copper three quarter inch stakes into the ground in a chemical plant under the direction of electrical engineers who had to follow the code to listen to someone who doesn't understand the code.



> Also, for a proper electrical ground, if you are going to be using the home's plumbing, ensure:
> 1. The entire home is copper pipe, no galvanized steel, and
> 2. A proper bonding jumper exists across the water meter.
> 
> If you have CPVC, Polybutylene (PB), PEX, etc. pipe, do not use this type of system. Ground the system only to the home's main electrical grounding system (normally located directly below the electrical meter) or a 2ndary ground rod bonded to the main electrical system grounding system.


That's what I said in a previous post.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Rocko, you seem to be a well grounded person


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

A properly grounded satellite dish. In this case, dual cable with attached 17ga ground wire* was used from the dish to the ground block. It's hard to see in the picture, but the ground wire was pulled off of the coax at the service loop so that the ground wire is running straight to the ground block, while the coax forms a loop. This does several things, but one is that the ground wire is the shortest path to ground.

Note that all (2) cables from the dish pass through the ground block before entering any other devices. This grounds the shield braids on the cable.

And from the ground block to the ground source, a 10 gauge solid copper wire, with green insulation, is used. The ground wire is run as short as possible, but without sharp bends.

Each ground wire has its own ground screw, as it is not permitted to "share" attachment points for grounds.

Here are a couple more:




























* Per NEC code, 17ga ground wire can ONLY be used between the dish and the ground block, and ONLY if the ground wire is bonded to the coax. Otherwise, you are required to use 10ga solid copper from the dish to the ground block as well as from the ground block to ground source. 10ga solid copper is always required from ground block to ground source.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

hasan said:


> ...
> Grounding needs to follow the *Single Point Grounding* protocols, if there is to be any lightning mitigation. Doing this improperly may increase the the likelihood of damage or injury. More grounds are NOT better.
> ...


I'd like to clarify and ask if there are any exceptions to this: my sat dish is pole mounted in the backyard, with ~100 ft cable runs (4 x RG6) to where they connect with the house, and are grounded at that point. Is the dish sufficiently grounded via those 4 RG6 cables for at least the purpose of dissipating any static?
I had actually bought a copper grounding rod I was going to put in next to the dish, but haven't yet installed it - you're really saying not to do so. I would imagine those 100 ft runs would act as a pretty good antenna for pickup of a lightning 'pulse' from a nearby strike?


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## Blaze (Jun 9, 2010)

netraa said:


> Absolutely run a wire from the dish to the groundblock to do what you can for your dish.


That's exactly what i have Ground-wire coming off dish to Grounding block to 3/4x8 ground rod.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

jazzyjez said:


> I'd like to clarify and ask if there are any exceptions to this: my sat dish is pole mounted in the backyard, with ~100 ft cable runs (4 x RG6) to where they connect with the house, and are grounded at that point. Is the dish sufficiently grounded via those 4 RG6 cables for at least the purpose of dissipating any static?
> I had actually bought a copper grounding rod I was going to put in next to the dish, but haven't yet installed it - you're really saying not to do so. I would imagine those 100 ft runs would act as a pretty good antenna for pickup of a lightning 'pulse' from a nearby strike?


No, I'm not saying you shouldn't ground your dish, but your ground for the dish should go the shortest unbent route (dish to ground), beneath it, to an 8' copper rod, using copper wire and appropriate clamps/screws.

What I am saying is that this is NOT an adequate RF ground, but it is a perfectly acceptable safety ground, which is mandatory in most states.

Yes, the 100' runs of cable are quite capable of picking up a pulse, which you can only "prevent" by having a common ground with low impedance connections all tied together. Coax cable is not a ground...for lightning purposes, as you have suggested, it's more like an antenna or transmission line.

Most people ground at the dish and at the ingress to the house (grounding block with another rod.), but they don't tie those two earth grounds together...and they must be for lightning mitigation. There needs to be a heavy wire or wide strap connecting those two distant points (dish and house entrance), as well as a common low impedance ground to the house and telco grounds. Again...this is for lightning induced issues, not to prevent electrocution. A simple safety ground prevents electrocution.

Most people, if they ground at all, leave off the connecting wires over those long distances, and live with the potential hazard to their equipment. I was only highlighting the different requirements for an RF vs Safety ground. I would never advise someone to ignore safety grounds because they fear other problems caused by not incorporating this into a good RF ground.

Safety comes first, equipment protection second (and is much more work and expense)....and yes a solid wire (short) from the dish to earth (ground rod) will help dissipate static, but you won't see much static build up on a dish in the first place unless it is quite high.

Do the safety ground, then contemplate the investment in time, work and money in an RF ground. If you elect not to do the RF ground (a.k.a. single point), you will be in good company, and will have at least ensured that no one is going to fry from faults in your electrical system.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> A properly grounded satellite dish. In this case, dual cable with attached 17ga ground wire* was used from the dish to the ground block. It's hard to see in the picture, but the ground wire was pulled off of the coax at the service loop so that the ground wire is running straight to the ground block, while the coax forms a loop. This does several things, but one is that the ground wire is the shortest path to ground.
> 
> Note that all (2) cables from the dish pass through the ground block before entering any other devices. This grounds the shield braids on the cable.
> 
> ...


The ground in that last picture has some issues. I wouldn't connect the grounding wires to the meter base using those clamps (they normally don't provide an adequate connection), but rather directly to the driven ground rod for the electrical service (normally located directly below the meter). And use a separate ground clamp at the ground rod, do not put 2 wires under the same clamp. You want the grounding wire(s) to be as short and direct (no bends) as possible to the ground rod.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> No, I'm not saying you shouldn't ground your dish, but your ground for the dish should go the shortest unbent route (dish to ground), beneath it, to an 8' copper rod, using copper wire and appropriate clamps/screws.


That's the "standard" here too - agree.

Since I originally had a 12' post buried into the ground (set with 150 lbs of concrete)...the ground wire (2 ft. heavy gauge copper.) is firmly connected to the post itself via a ground clamp. About 7' of the post is totally underground.

My ground block connection is also well grounded to an underground water pipe with the same (about 3 ft.) heavy gauge copper wire and clamp.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

n3ntj said:


> The ground in that last picture has some issues. I wouldn't connect the grounding wires to the meter base using those clamps (they normally don't provide an adequate connection), but rather directly to the driven ground rod for the electrical service (normally located directly below the meter). And use a separate ground clamp at the ground rod, do not put 2 wires under the same clamp. You want the grounding wire(s) to be as short and direct (no bends) as possible to the ground rod.


Most houses in California don't have an accessable ground rod. The ground rod is a piece of rebar set into the concrete foundation, and enclosed in the wall at the service entrance (usually the side of the garage). And while there is supposed to be an *accessable* 6ga wire coming from the ground rod up to the meter that you can bond to, builders often install the "TV" service box in such a way that you can't get to that wire. So, meter clamps are very common here, and *are* up to code, per several local electricians, as well as per both DirecTV and Dish Network specs.

When it is practical, we will run the ground wire into the box and use a split-bolt to bond to the 6-gauge wire. That's how it was done in the 2nd pic, for example.


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## mobouser (May 23, 2007)

hasan said:


> Very, very bad advice. You have created two different grounds which will result in massive voltage differentials across them, should a nearby strike happen.
> 
> DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!, thinking you are improving your protection against near stroke events or worse yet, direct hits.
> 
> ...


The NEC came up with a single source ground as a cure all for problems due to in ground pools. Its a general rule which in most cases could become a problem if you were to ground near a pool and it was occupied during a lighting storm and the charge traveled between rods and pool. I don't have a pool and I don't want the full charge traveling through my house hence 2 ground rods.


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## 2dogz (Jun 14, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's the "standard" here too - agree.
> 
> Since I originally had a 12' post buried into the ground (set with 150 lbs of concrete)...the ground wire (2 ft. heavy gauge copper.) is firmly connected to the post itself via a ground clamp. About 7' of the post is totally underground.
> 
> My ground block connection is also well grounded to an underground water pipe with the same (about 3 ft.) heavy gauge copper wire and clamp.


Ahhhh... This sounds like you have two different points of ground, the ground rod and the water pipe. Not good. Having two different paths to ground is called a ground loop. It can drive electronic equipment crazy.

The D* ground block should be tied back to the buildings electrical ground point. i.e. a single point of ground.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

hasan said:


> No, I'm not saying you shouldn't ground your dish, but your ground for the dish should go the shortest unbent route (dish to ground), beneath it, to an 8' copper rod, using copper wire and appropriate clamps/screws.
> 
> What I am saying is that this is NOT an adequate RF ground, but it is a perfectly acceptable safety ground, which is mandatory in most states.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply - J.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

2dogz said:


> Ahhhh... This sounds like you have two different points of ground, the ground rod and the water pipe. Not good. Having two different paths to ground is called a ground loop. It can drive electronic equipment crazy.
> 
> The D* ground block should be tied back to the buildings electrical ground point. i.e. a single point of ground.


Not exactly.

One is not considered a true ground (the post...althought it sure is well in the ground)...and with the location distances being 30'+ apart...the inspectors here actually encourage the practice. Of added note - the ground block is in all practically, hardly exposed to the outdoors...whereas the Dish obviously is.

If lightening is anywhere in the air or physically in that area at all...it's coming down the Dish and post.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

So this thread reminded me to call DIRECTV and have them come out and properly ground my dish. The tech showed up way early, so only my wife was home. I spoke with him on the phone and described how I thought it should be grounded. Anyway, I am not 100% thrilled with how he did it, so I need to fix it (no big deal). Just looking for a couple of opinions on which route I should go.

Take a look at the pic below. He added the ground block in the upper left. The ground wire runs begind the telephone box and down to the house ground in the bottom right (hidden). The issue I have is that he reused an existing clamp on the ground wire, and the wire actually pulls right out of it. So I need to fix that. Am I okay running that ground wire to the 4-way splitter which is already properly grounded (by me previously)? Or do I need to attach it driectly to the ground wire with its own clamp? Thoughts?


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

Ok, I'll be first........ They never grounded mine.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Take a look at the pic below. He added the ground block in the upper left. The ground wire runs begind the telephone box and down to the house ground in the bottom right (hidden). The issue I have is that he reused an existing clamp on the ground wire, and the wire actually pulls right out of it. So I need to fix that. Am I okay running that ground wire to the 4-way splitter which is already properly grounded (by me previously)? Or do I need to attach it driectly to the ground wire with its own clamp? Thoughts?


If it were my house I would use a single solid #12 copper conductor from the grounding block through the splitter(uncut) over to and through what appears to be a single wire grounding block?(orange wire) Again uncut and then to a single clamp attached to the existing ground point you are already using. Neat, clean and will safely ground or bleed off any stray junk you might encounter.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Take a look at the pic below. He added the ground block in the upper left. The ground wire runs begind the telephone box and down to the house ground in the bottom right (hidden). The issue I have is that he reused an existing clamp on the ground wire, and the wire actually pulls right out of it. So I need to fix that. Am I okay running that ground wire to the 4-way splitter which is already properly grounded (by me previously)? Or do I need to attach it driectly to the ground wire with its own clamp? Thoughts?


NEC code requires each ground to have its own, dedicated bonding clamp. No "sharing" allowed.

And the cable ground block should NOT be shared with the DirecTV ground block, nor connected together anywhere but at the ground source itself.

The cable company mounted their ground block and splitter incorrectly - you want the connectors to be horizontal, like the DirecTV ground block.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

BattleZone said:


> NEC code requires each ground to have its own, dedicated bonding clamp. No "sharing" allowed.
> 
> And the cable ground block should NOT be shared with the DirecTV ground block, nor connected together anywhere but at the ground source itself.
> 
> The cable company mounted their ground block and splitter incorrectly - you want the connectors to be horizontal, like the DirecTV ground block.


The question is, can I run the ground from the ground block to the other ground screw on the splitter, which is already properly grounded.

The cable splitter isn't being used. It's just a place for me to attach the unused cable runs. The cable goes through the ground block and straight to the modem. I'll flip that ground block around so it is horizontal.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> The question is, can I run the ground from the ground block to the other ground screw on the splitter, which is already properly grounded.
> 
> The cable splitter isn't being used. It's just a place for me to attach the unused cable runs. The cable goes through the ground block and straight to the modem. I'll flip that ground block around so it is horizontal.


Yes, But as BattleZone says it won't be code legal. It would be just as safe as having two separate wires to the main ground. The ground block and splitter are already "electrically" connected by the braid in the coax between them anyway. If you choose to connect the two I would again recommend using a single wire 'through" one screw of the splitter rather than "breaking" the ground wire and using both screws on the splitter. If I was being paid and/or inspected separate grounds are the only way to go. But if it were my house I'd use a single wire. It's just as safe, neater and only requires one clamp at the main ground. It really depends on your comfort level. YMMV


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

drpjr said:


> Yes, But as BattleZone says it won't be code legal. It would be just as safe as having two separate wires to the main ground. The ground block and splitter are already "electrically" connected by the braid in the coax between them anyway. If you choose to connect the two I would again recommend using a single wire 'through" one screw of the splitter rather than "breaking" the ground wire and using both screws on the splitter. If I was being paid and/or inspected separate grounds are the only way to go. But if it were my house I'd use a single wire. It's just as safe, neater and only requires one clamp at the main ground. It really depends on your comfort level. YMMV


The braid of a coaxial cable can *never* be considered a part of any ground, whether safety or RF. Removal of the the coax from the connection presents a potentially life threatening hazard, and sooner or later, a cable is going to be unplugged. Never depend on the braid of a coaxial cable as a ground. Direct grounds where possible, grounding blocks where they are not is the proper way to go. Anything else is dangerous.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

hasan said:


> The braid of a coaxial cable can *never* be considered a part of any ground, whether safety or RF. Removal of the the coax from the connection presents a potentially life threatening hazard, and sooner or later, a cable is going to be unplugged. Never depend on the braid of a coaxial cable as a ground. Direct grounds where possible, grounding blocks where they are not is the proper way to go. Anything else is dangerous.


Ditto.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

hasan said:


> The braid of a coaxial cable can *never* be considered a part of any ground, whether safety or RF. Removal of the the coax from the connection presents a potentially life threatening hazard, and sooner or later, a cable is going to be unplugged. Never depend on the braid of a coaxial cable as a ground. Direct grounds where possible, grounding blocks where they are not is the proper way to go. Anything else is dangerous.


You missed my poorly stated point. I would never consider the braid to be a proper grounding conductor even though it is part of the grounding path. The point I was trying to make is that having a ground/bond between the ground block and splitter would not create any issues or be less safe. Bonding the two together would not create a safety issue for either as the two are already "technically electricaly connected" to each other as well as to the rest of the system.(with or without a ground wire attached) IOW they are a path from the dish to the receiver weather they are bonded together and grounded or grounded separatly. The issue is how to complete that path from them to the main ground rod/buss. Code calls for separate wires to ground for each. The reason being if one ground is breached there is still a good ground on the other(s). This is especially important when the components are far apart and have long ground wires with a much higher chance of damage. Even if one of the grounds is breached the others are redundant and still complete the ground. In this case given the proximity of all the blocks and splitters to the main ground with little chance of damage a single ground wire would be cleaner, neater, just as safe and have less clamps to worry about. THAT DOES NOT MEET CODE but is still safe. They also would all have the same potential to ground possibly eliminating a ground loop issue. If for some reason that single wire was breached the dish ground would be redundant and still protect the system. Also if you have current going to ground anywhere on the wiring system or components no matter how well it is grounded there is still great danger when energized cables are disconnected, given the right circumstances.:eek2: You need to stop the source of the current first then you can think about disconnecting cables. Boy this was sure wordy, I wish I knew how to do paragraphs.:lol:


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## HiDefGator (Nov 20, 2005)

BKC said:


> Ok, I'll be first........ They never grounded mine.


I was going to say that as well. I've had Directv in Florida since mid 90's in more than one house and several dishes. None of my dishes or cabling has ever been grounded. I've never had a problem with it. Not saying it isn't needed or a good idea. But it seems like it might not be as critical as some think.


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## Bigg (Feb 27, 2010)

If the dish is a long way away from the utility entry point, and cable has to run into the house, would it be best to have a grounding rod for the dish with the wire outside, and then bond that to the main service ground through the house? Or just go through the house?


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