# OTA for Hopper?



## dunkonu23

Has the OTA antenna upgrade been released? I've been laying low so I haven't heard.

Scott


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## RasputinAXP

Not yet. It's probably still in testing.


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## Grandude

I for one, and I suspect a lot of Dish users are patiently waiting for OTA to become a reality for the Hopper before upgrading their system to the Hopper/Joey system.

Summer is winding down now and our patience is being tried.......

Does anyone know if there really will be an OTA option for the Hopper?


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## djlong

Would be nice if I could get PBS in HD with one.


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## TheFoxMan

OTA is a must for me. After it's available for Hopper/Joey, I'll take a serious look to see if there are advantages to replacing my 722/622 setup.


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## RASCAL01

It should be in beta testing soon.


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## P Smith

dunkonu23 said:


> Has the OTA antenna upgrade been released? I've been laying low so I haven't heard.
> 
> Scott


It's not an antenna, but USB OTA tuner. Have you seen such Hauppauge WinNT-HVR 950 ?


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## sregener

"RASCAL01" said:


> It should be in beta testing soon.


Horrible for a product that was supposed to be released "this summer."


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## garys

It is still summer until Sept 21st.


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## P Smith

garys said:


> It is still summer until Sept 21st.


That's astronomical summer; for us it's June, July and August by a calendar.


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## TheFoxMan

P Smith said:


> That's astronomical summer; for us it's June, July and August by a calendar.


+1... try telling the kids who just returned to school that it's still summer. :nono:


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## garys

P Smith said:


> That's astronomical summer; for us it's June, July and August by a calendar.


Does anyone know which calendar is Dish using?


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## John W

garys said:


> Does anyone know which calendar is Dish using?


Mayan.


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## P Smith




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## dunkonu23

P Smith said:


> It's not an antenna, but USB OTA tuner. Have you seen such Hauppauge WinNT-HVR 950 ?


Okay... then yes, I've seen it. Just wondering when Dish is gonna release their version.

Scott


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## P Smith

Perhaps it's going long way as the tuner is third party supply and had own developers of HW and FW inside ... dish had enough workload to adapt Linux driver of the stick and incorporate its control into existing DVR environment including MRV support.


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## david_jr

P Smith said:


>


+1


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## 3HaloODST

Lucky for me I get the Big Four in HD plus PBS in HD via sat. Also get all my other OTA channels in SD that I need. It would be nice to get them in HD on H/J however the sat feed supplies some channels that i couldn't even pick up OTA. PTAT helps as far as the need for the extra tuners, but as everyone else said I'm starting to get impatient. Meanwhile PTAT and the 722k fulfill my needs. 

Then again it would be nice for Dish to fix all the bugs rather than rushing out the OTA tuner.


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## runner861

I agree with what is being said here. I like the idea of the Hopper, but it is a non-starter for me without OTA. I make do with two 622s. But OTA including some side channels are a big part of my viewing.


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## harsh

P Smith said:


> Perhaps it's going long way as the tuner is third party supply and had own developers of HW and FW inside ... dish had enough workload to adapt Linux driver of the stick and incorporate its control into existing DVR environment including MRV support.


This would be an Echostar project, wouldn't it?


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## P Smith

Not now when they did pass the product to dish. 
Perhaps it's another reason for delay (by internal source from other thread about reasons for leaving the company) - SW dev is small group what overloaded already...


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## dunkonu23

P Smith said:


> Not now when they did pass the product to dish.
> Perhaps it's another reason for delay (by internal source from other thread about reasons for leaving the company) - SW dev is small group what overloaded already...


Honestly, that doesn't really matter. It's an excuse whether it's true or not. Being overworked is the new norm. It sucks, but it's true. If Dish can't come up with OTA for the Hopper during the timeline they stated, it's up to them to say it.

Scott


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## P Smith

You know, they stop posting a table of FW versions and FW updates notes become so generic ...

I'm not surprised by that thread about frustrating ex-employees ... Did you read the thread ?


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## moman19

P Smith said:


> You know, they stop posting a table of FW versions and FW updates notes become so generic ...
> 
> I'm not surprised by that thread about frustrating ex-employees ... Did you read the thread ?


Please provide that link. It sounds like it might be interesting reading.


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## dunkonu23

Okay, I read the thread. It is not that much different from being in IT anywhere these days--if the company is growing. I am on call, once a week, every three weeks. If someone in the rotation does not respond, I will get called. We do not have enough folks to do the job we are tasked, but that's the norm. We make our deadlines. I have no sympathy for disgruntled employees these days; there are more than enough folks on the unemployment rolls to take their place. 

Scott


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## P Smith

Perhaps you missed somewhere - it's the same for its SW dept.


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## dunkonu23

P Smith said:


> Perhaps you missed somewhere - it's the same for its SW dept.


Nope. Sorry. As I wrote, I don't buy excuses of being overworked. I'm overworked, but I come in every day. I don't make excuses.

Scott


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## tommiet

Still waiting for that weather channel DISH promised 2 years ago....... Remember... coming soon!

Must be with the OTA tuner team...


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## harsh

tommiet said:


> Still waiting for that weather channel DISH promised 2 years ago....... Remember... coming soon!


Are you talking about the one that lasted for a few days and was taken down?


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## James Long

harsh said:


> Are you talking about the one that lasted for a few days and was taken down?


How about the regional versions they promised (in a PRESS RELEASE not a rumor or comment on a chat !!!)?


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## harsh

James Long said:


> How about the regional versions they promised (in a PRESS RELEASE not a rumor or comment on a chat !!!)?


We don't really know until the poster gives more specific information.


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## P Smith

Is there some news close to the topic ? Is someone seen the OTA USB stick in work?


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## Ray [email protected] Network

I have not received any information about an OTA module for the Hopper. We will let you know when new information is available. Thanks.



P Smith said:


> Is there some news close to the topic ? Is someone seen the OTA USB stick in work?


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## TNVOL1111

I think I remember seeing the Hopper reviewed in one of the A/V Mags and it didn't seem to have a RG6 Coax connection on the back for the OTA connection like my 622 DVR has. So if OTA antenna capability is added then how would it connect? And would the OTA connection take over one of the 3 internal tuners like it does on the 622 DVR?


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## P Smith

TNVOL1111 said:


> I think I remember seeing the Hopper reviewed in one of the A/V Mags and it didn't seem to have a RG6 Coax connection on the back for the OTA connection like my 622 DVR has. So if OTA antenna capability is added then how would it connect? And would the OTA connection take over one of the 3 internal tuners like it does on the 622 DVR?


see post#7, #32, #33


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## harsh

TNVOL1111 said:


> So if OTA antenna capability is added then how would it connect? And would the OTA connection take over one of the 3 internal tuners like it does on the 622 DVR?


If you read the thread a lot more carefully, you would understand that it is thought to be a USB connected device.

Details (integration, pricing, dimensions, availability) are not available at this time.


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## arvetus

I just was looking in my DISH account of what I could order from the DISH store and noticed that the USB OTA Tuner was listed for $30.

It's currently listed as "out of stock," so perhaps it will be coming very soon...


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## P Smith

arvetus said:


> I just was looking in my DISH account of what I could order from the DISH store and noticed that the USB OTA Tuner was listed for $30.
> 
> It's currently listed as "out of stock," so perhaps it will be coming very soon...


Is there any link to web site to read specs, view photos ?


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## arvetus

nothing on the dish site yet...it just says it's out of stock.

Keep checking!

**edit**
There is a manual on the website....

http://www.mydish.com/support/FileStream.ashx?ID=2731


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## bobukcat

arvetus said:


> nothing on the dish site yet...it just says it's out of stock.
> 
> Keep checking!
> 
> **edit**
> There is a manual on the website....
> 
> http://www.mydish.com/support/FileStream.ashx?ID=2731


Awesome, thanks for posting this. I've been waiting for OTA to make the "Hop" and would love to replace my 622s but cannot give up OTA (even with PTAT). Getting excited again!


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## bigdog9586

I had OTA with Directv And it took the OTA channels and put them into the guide and they were no different then the Directv channels. You could click on them and record them just as you would any channel that was on the Sat. Is this how Dish works?


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## P Smith

Yes. For many years *before *DTV, see when we start using 8VSB cartridge for model 5000 and 6000.

BTW, some ppl still using old model 811 (successor of 6000 ) for OTA regardless if it was deactivated and discontinued.


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## RasputinAXP

Interesting link. Guess it's closer than we think!


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## P Smith

arvetus said:


> nothing on the dish site yet...it just says it's out of stock.
> 
> Keep checking!
> 
> **edit**
> There is a manual on the website....
> 
> http://www.mydish.com/support/FileStream.ashx?ID=2731


Some ppl doesn't know how to rotate a page before making PDF


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## James Long

P Smith said:


> Some ppl doesn't know how to rotate a page before making PDF


The second page (which is more interesting) looks fine.
They could have rotated the first page and left the second page narrow but that would require special handling when printing.

But at the end of the day, complaining about the PDF is like complaining that one's bonus check is printed in an unpleasant font. Cash the check, be happy. We finally have public proof that OTA really is coming for the Hopper.


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## P Smith

You're always say something opposite when I'm criticize the company...

It's official document, not telling any printer have setting to rotate a page according it's orientation, you're always siding with them, I know.


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## James Long

"Always" is such a lovely word ... why don't we just stick with the topic and not get into attacks that have nothing to do with OTA on the Hopper?


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## arvetus

The PDF pages are oriented like that so there is no special formatting required when printing on your printer. You only need to rotate it to view it if you don't want to print it. Any PDF reader will do this...

Anywhoo... This is a good thing for me since DISH doesn't carry my locals in HD yet. I don't need PTA, so it's no big loss for me either way. I will be glad to get my locals to all TV's, not just to the main TV and have to switch inputs to get to them


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## sregener

I'm with the crowd that thinks this is good news.


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## dunkonu23

I think it's good news, too... problem is, we know it wasn't last summer... Dish never said which summer...

We do know that there is a manual, though...  

Scott


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## sregener

"dunkonu23" said:


> We do know that there is a manual, though...


We know more than that. We know there is a firmware version that supports the OTA adapter, because the manual has screen shots.


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## P Smith

sregener said:


> We know more than that. We know there is a firmware version that supports the OTA adapter, because the manual has screen shots.


And what exactly version number support OTA ?


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## bigdog9586

I'm asking again. 
I had OTA with Directv And it took the OTA channels and put them into the guide and they were no different then the Directv channels. You could click on them and record them just as you would any channel that was on the Sat. Is this how Dish works?


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## James Long

bigdog9586 said:


> I'm asking again.
> I had OTA with Directv And it took the OTA channels and put them into the guide and they were no different then the Directv channels. You could click on them and record them just as you would any channel that was on the Sat. Is this how Dish works?


Yes. That is how it works on DISH's other receivers and that is how it is expected to work on the Hopper.


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## sregener

P Smith said:


> And what exactly version number support OTA ?


Always the pessimist, are we? Concentrating on what we do not know rather than on what we do.

We simply do not know what firmware version was used to make the screenshots. It may be an internal test-only version of the software. I chose my words carefully. However, we can clearly see that someone has written the code to make the OTA Tuner work, which I believe to be a significant step towards getting the OTA Tuner released. It is evidence that the tuner is no longer vaporware, but in the actual product development pipeline (and probably quite far along it, since this manual was released publicly.)


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## dunkonu23

I think vaporware is something that is not in consumers hands.  

In the meantime... I'll just wait and smile.  

Scott


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## RASCAL01

P Smith said:


> And what exactly version number support OTA ?


I do know what version number supports OTA but it is not released to the public, it is still in beta testing.


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## bigdog9586

James Long said:


> Yes. That is how it works on DISH's other receivers and that is how it is expected to work on the Hopper.


Thanks


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## P Smith

sregener said:


> Always the pessimist, are we? Concentrating on what we do not know rather than on what we do.
> 
> We simply do not know what firmware version was used to make the screenshots. It may be an internal test-only version of the software. I chose my words carefully. However, we can clearly see that someone has written the code to make the OTA Tuner work, which I believe to be a significant step towards getting the OTA Tuner released. It is evidence that the tuner is no longer vaporware, but in the actual product development pipeline (and probably quite far along it, since this manual was released publicly.)


Ask me and I will make same presentation/PDF for any of your weird request: say - trim recordings and remove commercial breaks from any event.


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## RasputinAXP

As usual, when's it gonna be ready? Real Soon Now (tm/c Dish Network 2002)


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## sregener

"P Smith" said:


> Ask me and I will make same presentation/PDF for any of your weird request: say - trim recordings and remove commercial breaks from any event.


It strains credulity to believe they created a mockup for their documentation to be used by end customers, when it would be simpler to take screen shots of the actual menus so that users would not be confused, should design challenges change the interface. As a former developer, I can tell you that it is far harder to document something that has yet to be written. While it is by no means impossible in this day of Photoshop and sophisticated editing software to create nearly anything imaginable, the question that would have to be asked is why a corporation would do this for one of their own products? At a public media event to demonstrate some new software or feature, sure, but to quietly slip it into their support pages without fanfare?

Conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied, of course.


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## James Long

sregener said:


> We simply do not know what firmware version was used to make the screenshots.


The date on the screen shots? 2/29 on the settings menu, 3/11 on the OTA setup menu and 12/15 on the program guide. The same freeze frame is shown in December and February ... so I'd say these were mock-ups.

But that does not mean that DISH isn't working on OTA and having a manual isn't a bad sign.


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## Stewart Vernon

For what it's worth... I worked for a company as a technical writer and illustrator... and for one project I mocked up some screens in Photoshop. The screens I made were pretty good unless you knew where to look for the minor flaws... but the deal was this was an electronic device (not computer controlled) that they wanted to show several screens in the marketing materials that were not easy to duplicate on the test bed.

It was easier for me to mock up the screens than for them to tie up an engineer to create false failure scenarios to show the proper indicators on the device just for a photograph.

I do wish the mockup people would put a little more care into these things, though... so that it isn't as easy to look at as James just did and realize they were probably mockups. Probably a few more minutes of care and we still would be wondering if they were mockups or not.


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## P Smith

The sloppy work shoot in your eyes from the disorientation of fist page, duh ! 
And mockup's hiccups are just piling on top of this sh... umm base ...


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## Bobham

I want to use the OTA device as a hedge against Gannett loss. Hope Dish releases it soon enough to mitigate the loss of my local channels.


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## moman19

Bobham said:


> I want to use the OTA device as a hedge against Gannett loss. Hope Dish releases it soon enough to mitigate the loss of my local channels.


Hmmm. I wonder if Dish is allowed to provide programming info in the Guide for an OTA channel that is blocked for satellite re-transmission due to the dispute. My 722k has OTA. So when the Satellite channel is replaced with a slate, I must wonder how that will affect the OTA version of that channel in the guide. Not much of an inconvenience if it's still available.

(I hope this gets settled so I don't need to find the answer).


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## James Long

moman19 said:


> Hmmm. I wonder if Dish is allowed to provide programming info in the Guide for an OTA channel that is blocked for satellite re-transmission due to the dispute.


Allowed to? Perhaps ... but DISH doesn't do that. When they pull the channel they change the EPG to "important message" or something like that and there is no correct EPG until the channel returns.


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## moman19

James Long said:


> Allowed to? Perhaps ... but DISH doesn't do that. When they pull the channel they change the EPG to "important message" or something like that and there is no correct EPG until the channel returns.


Thanks James, but that isn't what I wanted to hear


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## jeffdb27

moman19 said:


> ... Not much of an inconvenience if it's still available.


It is very much an inconvenience if the guide imformation isn't available for OTA channels. Timers won't work and can't even be set (except for manual timers). Some time ago one of my OTA channels I receive with my 722k stopped having guide information. It just says "Digital Service". Now the channel is almost useless. I've gone back and forth with DISH and the station but it seems nothing is going to be done about this for this station


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## James Long

jeffdb27 said:


> It is very much an inconvenience if the guide imformation isn't available for OTA channels. Timers won't work and can't even be set (except for manual timers). Some time ago one of my OTA channels I receive with my 722k stopped having guide information. It just says "Digital Service". Now the channel is almost useless. I've gone back and forth with DISH and the station but it seems nothing is going to be done about this for this station


I have fought the same issues with DISH ... I had one channel that didn't have the correct EPG - and after reporting it I was told (incorrectly) that it was a problem with the station (yet DISH receivers do not get their EPG OTA, they get it from DISH). After that first complaint they made a change that lost me another channel's EPG. So I complained again and got more incorrect information blaming it on my receivers (no, paying for a replacement receiver is not going to help fix the uplink tables). And soon afterwards they changed the EPG data and a third OTA EPG was lost. I decided to stop complaining before I lost EPG for all the channels in my market. 

I've had the Hopper since it came out and look forward to having the OTA option again. Hopefully the holes have been fixed in the guide data.

BTW: I keep a current list (updated daily) of all of DISH's local market channels and additional EPG channels. It is on my website at:
http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html

The channels may map to a different number than shown on my chart ... that is controlled by the local station. But if a channel isn't there DISH isn't sending EPG. (If you are receiving OTA from more than one market check the other markets on the list.)


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## jeffdb27

James Long said:


> BTW: I keep a current list (updated daily) of all of DISH's local market channels and additional EPG channels. It is on my website at:
> http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html
> 
> The channels may map to a different number than shown on my chart ... that is controlled by the local station. But if a channel isn't there DISH isn't sending EPG. (If you are receiving OTA from more than one market check the other markets on the list.)


I really don't understand how this works. I am in the Wichita, KS DMA. KSNW has translator stations around the state. The one where I live in Salina, KS is KSNL ch 6 (low power) and it has guide information. The one in Great Bend, KS ch 2 is KSNC (high power) and it has no guide information.

The station I mentioned that has the problem is KSAS ch 24 in Wichita. It is channel 17 here and is KAAS. For years it was fine. Even though it was broadcasting on ch 17 it showed in the EPG as 24-01 (not just on DISH recievers). Then they changed something and we had to rescan, then it showed up on 17-01 and the guide info was gone.

None of these translator stations are in your map list, yet some have guide information on DISH.


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## eddieopus

Dish called me last week to see if I got my Roku hooked up. While I had the guy on the phone I asked about the OTA module and he said he know nothing about it but will check the system. He came back and sid he found it in the system and when I asked him for a price he told me the status is out of stock so he had no price for me. Take it for what it's worth but to me is seems like it will be here soon.


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## James Long

jeffdb27 said:


> None of these translator stations are in your map list, yet some have guide information on DISH.


The key is the "TSID". Each station transmits this number (or should) to uniquely identify the signal. DISH uses the TSID transmitted by whatever channels are received and matches them to their EPG data. Some matches are done based on channels DISH carries, others match EPG data carried on channels in the 14000s and 15000s.

Translators can use the same TSID as the station they repeat or they can use a different TSID. If they use the same TSID then DISH cannot tell the difference between the original station and the translator. Usually that means the mapping works. But if the TSID is different and DISH does not add an "EPG only" channel to map to the translator's TSID then there is no match.


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## moman19

James Long said:


> The key is the "TSID". Each station transmits this number (or should) to uniquely identify the signal. DISH uses the TSID transmitted by whatever channels are received and matches them to their EPG data. Some matches are done based on channels DISH carries, others match EPG data carried on channels in the 14000s and 15000s.
> 
> Translators can use the same TSID as the station they repeat or they can use a different TSID. If they use the same TSID then DISH cannot tell the difference between the original station and the translator. Usually that means the mapping works. But if the TSID is different and DISH does not add an "EPG only" channel to map to the translator's TSID then there is no match.


James,
This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, all four channels have the same TSID. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.


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## P Smith

moman19 said:


> James,
> This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, *all four channels have the same TSID*. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.


Check station's TSID also at www.rabbitears.info, dish could have these wrong.


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## James Long

moman19 said:


> James,
> This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, all four channels have the same TSID. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.


Here is the EPG in question:
9-01 KETC1 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 14224)
9-02 KETC2 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14225)
9-03 KETC TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 6459/8596)
9-04 KETC4 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14895)

Having the same TSID is good ... the TSID refers to the channel, not the subchannels. Where DISH has failed (based on your observation) is matching the subchannel to the program data. It is possible that their source data is wrong (check Zap2IT to see if that matches reality). If the source is wrong then the problem lies between Tribune and the station.

Having -03 "no info" is odd since that is based on the channel DISH actually carries as 9-00. It should at least be the wrong info.



P Smith said:


> Check station's TSID also at www.rabbitear.info, dish could have these wrong.


DISH has the TSID right, per "rabbitears". (Fortunately Trip bought both domains to catch the misspellers. )


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## scottchez

Neighbor got the Hopper. Then he found out you CANT watch Star Trek on it as there is no over the air Tuner (OTA) for the hopper yet like on the other Dish DVRs.
He also cant watch PBS in HD and he cant get the local Weather Channel and cant get MyNetwork TV.


All of the above plus Star Trek is on here on sub channels not avl on the SAT

He called and said when he sign they said he got all local channels which it turns out he does not and listed them out.

The CSR said the USB Turner was coming out "Soon" they did not have a date, and then they gave him an other $10 off each month for 6 months for the miss understanding.


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## djlong

Don't need the Weather Channel. Heck, nowadays, when you tune to TWC, you might not get the weather. I configured the Weather Channel app on the Joey and now I really DO get the weather whenever I want it.


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## 722921

scottchez said:


> Neighbor got the Hopper. Then he found out you CANT watch Star Trek on it as there is no over the air Tuner (OTA) for the hopper yet like on the other Dish DVRs.
> He also cant watch PBS in HD and he cant get the local Weather Channel and cant get MyNetwork TV.
> 
> All of the above plus Star Trek is on here on sub channels not avl on the SAT
> 
> He called and said when he sign they said he got all local channels which it turns out he does not and listed them out.
> 
> The CSR said the USB Turner was coming out "Soon" they did not have a date, and then they gave him an other $10 off each month for 6 months for the miss understanding.


For these reasons, the hopper is not for me either.


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## BenJF3

Well, with the return of AMC, Dish is now almost a viable option once again. However, I've been looking at the Genie and it will stream OTA to it's clients. I'm waiting on Dish to give us a USB option for OTA.

Other issues are:

Would need two Hoppers because lack of tuners for Joeys (Genie has 5, Hopper has 3)

OTA must be able to stream to Joeys

Hoppers mush "see" each other and act as one which they currently don't do.

OTA's must appear in the Guide


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## RasputinAXP

BenJF3 said:


> Well, with the return of AMC, Dish is now almost a viable option once again. However, I've been looking at the Genie and it will stream OTA to it's clients. I'm waiting on Dish to give us a USB option for OTA.
> 
> Other issues are:
> 
> Would need two Hoppers because lack of tuners for Joeys (Genie has 5, Hopper has 3)
> 
> OTA must be able to stream to Joeys
> 
> Hoppers mush "see" each other and act as one which they currently don't do.
> 
> OTA's must appear in the Guide


1. OK. Doesn't sound like an issue.
2. OK. That won't be an issue either; Joeys will see it as another tuner.
3. The only thing they don't do is share timers or mung the entire set of recordings into one list.
4. That's how it works.


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## BenJF3

Thanks for the reply - My issue would be the two Hoppers not seeing each others scheduled recording. In other words, I want the system to behave as a one Hopper system, but with the added tuners the second Hopper brings.

OTA is the bigger issue though and why I posted here. I really like how the D* C31 is able to stream OTA from the Genie. Because E* doesn't provide all my locals, I'd need a good OTA solution. 

I'll continue to follow up and watch both. The down with D* is lack of HD networks. I really, REALLY want to dith my Time Warner DVR - It's horrible. The Time Warner service, price and channel selection here is great, but the DVR totally ruins the cable portion of the service.


----------



## P Smith

Seems to me the tune for OTA USB stick should be refined as "Summer *2013*".


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> Seems to me the tune for OTA USB stick should be refined as "Summer *2013*".


The Hopper will have a USB tuner in Summer 2013.

It will have a USB tuner in Spring 2013 and Winter 2012-2013. Chances are the Hopper will have the USB tuner in Fall 2012 as well but there is still a chance it won't.


----------



## BenJF3

That's what I'm afraid of. I wouldn't say it's vaporware because there is already a manual out for it. However, DirecTV has it now and it works with client boxes. I much prefer the Hopper software and Guide as well as the Dish HD line up. More of what I want in HD at a better price. I'll keep following the two and see.


----------



## scottchez

Some are thinking the OTA USB tuner is all ready to go. Even the User Guide is out there.
The rumors are the hold up is some kind of FCC approval or Patent approval or something like that.
Dish is very late on this one which could mean may be next year going by there past track record of release dates.

Funny thing is 
I was at an other house over the weekend asked them if they were missing the local over the air channels, they said what? I get all the locals.
I then started naming off METV (star trek), PBS in HD, MyNetwork TV, PBS from Iowa, CW in HD, PBS create, PBS Kids, Live Well and the local weather.

He said, "wow, I was tricked. They said I got all the locals when I signed up.
Oh well, with the over 250 channels I guess I never noticed till now, but I am still MAD about missing Star Trek and the local weather channel, you never know when you will want to watch those channels."


----------



## P Smith

From 90 local digital stations, dish provide less then 20.


----------



## harsh

BenJF3 said:


> I want the system to behave as a one Hopper system, but with the added tuners the second Hopper brings.


I'm not convinced that any DVR provider offers this kind of support at this point.

My question to you is do you really watch that much live TV?


----------



## BenJF3

"harsh" said:


> I'm not convinced that any DVR provider offers this kind of support at this point.
> 
> My question to you is do you really watch that much live TV?


The Genie supports 5 streams. Dish fudges the number by counting PTAT. I rarely watch live TV, but many others do. The issue with units not seeing each others scheduled recordings is one we face now with the crap Time Warner DVR. Always ending up with duplicates or a wasted tuner because some one thought their show wasn't going to record when it was set on another unit.

The locals issue is mainly because sat companies won't provide us with significantly viewed locals here. I've checked with providers. They'll only provide one set based on zip code.


----------



## harsh

BenJF3 said:


> The Genie supports 5 streams. Dish fudges the number by counting PTAT.


It isn't fudging if you can record everything you want to watch. Given the number of people that want multiple Genies, I'm not sure that there is any way to satisfy those who simply want more than there is.


> I rarely watch live TV, but many others do.


I just wanted to confirm that this was a red herring. You made it sound like it was a show stopper but if it doesn't impact you...


> The issue with units not seeing each others scheduled recordings is one we face now with the crap Time Warner DVR. Always ending up with duplicates or a wasted tuner because some one thought their show wasn't going to record when it was set on another unit.


As I said, you're asking for something that isn't yet supported by anyone. It has been suggested that the Hopper may include such a feature in the future but the Genie users won't know until they allow multiple Genies and at this point, the Genie doesn't appear to consider what other DVRs are recording.


> The locals issue is mainly because sat companies won't provide us with significantly viewed locals here. I've checked with providers. They'll only provide one set based on zip code.


I don't argue that it could be important to have OTA (IFF you have reasonable reception). It is one of the reasons that I haven't seriously considered going to a Hopper system.

OTOH, the deal with cable is that they're not always very good with subchannels and you _know_ that they're not going to provide OTA support.


----------



## BenJF3

No, the live TV isn't the main issue - the OTA is because of where I live and my locals. With others in the house that would tie up available tuners, the Hopper limit could be an issue. That said, I could probably check it out at a local sat dealer. The main thing right now (since AMC is back) is the OTA and how they will handle it. If they can deliver something like D* with OTA streaming to Joey's then it's viable. I'm not much for sports and E* has more channels in HD that I want than D* does.

I appreciate all the info.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

The other thing we don't know yet... Will a Hopper support more than one OTA adapter?

If you have two Hoppers... you should be able to use 2 OTA adapters (one on each Hopper) and while each Hopper can only see/use one... the Joeys could link to either Hopper and see either...

So with OTA, it looks like 3/1 tuners (SAT/OTA) per Hopper... and then 6/2 total if you have a 2-Hopper config.

That would seem pretty good to me... and when you add in the PTAT scenario where you can record ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC in primetime using just the single tuner... it seems like a lot to me.

It would be nice to have the Hoppers interact and share timer/tuner use info... I suspect they could do that in the future, though we've certainly seen nothing to indicate that they are trying... but even without that, can't people in the home talk to each other and say "I'll record that show, you record the other show"? Do families not talk anymore?

I know I tell my father if I record something he might want to watch... and I can put it on an EHD for him to watch later on his Dish receiver in the other room.


----------



## patmurphey

Am I not correct that DirecTV's OTA solution does not add a tuner, but would use one of the 5 Genie tuners? A 2 Hopper solution with an added OTA tuner on each and PTAT would be a far more capable system. The canard that a Joey wouldn't function with an OTA tuner as it does with an internal tuner is just that, a canard.


----------



## P Smith

Some bad news from other thread here:


chaney said:


> FYI to anyone out there with 2 722s and switching to 1H & 3J, you will be losing a tv to be only a mirror at all times or wathing dvr/on demand, many of my customers who i go to install this system as an upgrade have no idea and are pretty pissed when they find out, many cancel or fork out the extra cash for another hopper. *Also There will never be an OTA adapter for the Hopper/Joey because it will conflict with PTAT when enabled*.


----------



## jeffdb27

P Smith said:


> Some bad news from other thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> chaney said:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by chaney
> FYI to anyone out there with 2 722s and switching to 1H & 3J, you will be losing a tv to be only a mirror at all times or wathing dvr/on demand, many of my customers who i go to install this system as an upgrade have no idea and are pretty pissed when they find out, many cancel or fork out the extra cash for another hopper. Also There will never be an OTA adapter for the Hopper/Joey because it will conflict with PTAT when enabled.
Click to expand...

Why would it conflict with PTAT? This is rediculous. PTAT records satellite channels on one transponder using one tuner. Adding an OTA module effects this how? Troll much?


----------



## chaney

It will conflict with PTAT because PTAT will not support the ability to record OTA as part of its function, thus no OTA, also seeing as I do have inside knowledge and have already had a beta test sent out to my field office to test it and see if it was a viable possibillitiy for the H/J and found the said conflict. I'm sure if cust complain enough about the OTA the software engineers could work out the quirks to allow a OTA to be useful but in all honesty, They have been removing OTA from many of the Reman receivers for awhile now and made it a pay option instead of an included piece of equipment. Thus why you have to buy it for a 722 or 922 and not for SD equipment ie 311,322, etc. I'm not trolling im just offer info if you have a prob dont read it


----------



## James Long

Perhaps the firmware version you got was not ready for prime time ... or PTAT. It would explain the delay if DISH has such a bug to work out. I don't have a problem believing that you saw an issue on the one receiver you had with the firmware that was on that receiver. The issue is when one extends the observation to be "There will never be an OTA adapter for the Hopper/Joey because it will conflict with PTAT when enabled." Never is a long time.

Other than that :welcome_s to the forum.


----------



## 3HaloODST

That's like saying you can't view other sat channels because PTAT doesn't support non-local channels. Sorry, I think you are mistaken based on pure uneducated assumptions. It would be nice if you didn't try to report it as if this were an official confirmation. They don't call it BETA software for nothing.

Everyone already knows that PTAT will not support OTA, seeing as OTA doesn't have shared transponders.

By the way you are wrong about the SD receivers having OTA. They do not have OTA. you are also wrong about the 722 needing an add-on tuner. It has a built-in OTA tuner. It is the 722k which requires the module. Just because they moved from built-in OTA to modules doesn't mean that they won't have a USB tuner for Hopper (which by the way, already exists.)


----------



## jeffdb27

What James said. Welcome. Sorry for the troll comment, but when you say stuff like "will never be..." it draws a reaction. I still don't see any possible way this could (or at least should) cause a conflict. But I'm no hardware engineer!!


----------



## scottchez

I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.

Thus, once release and the bug fixed PTAT will work as it knows that transponder to record and it knows what channels in that transponder map to the network for the menu of PTAT.

Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.
I am ready to switch to dish now that AMC is back up. But I want to watch Star Trek on METV (a sub channel) and my local weather (a sub channel) and PBS and the CW in HD, DIsh only has SD


----------



## 3HaloODST

"scottchez" said:


> I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.
> 
> Thus, once release and the bug fixed PTAT will work as it knows that transponder to record and it knows what channels in that transponder map to the network for the menu of PTAT.
> 
> Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.
> I am ready to switch to dish now that AMC is back up. But I want to watch Star Trek on METV (a sub channel) and my local weather (a sub channel) and PBS and the CW in HD, DIsh only has SD


I have heard that Dish is waiting for FCC approval.


----------



## James Long

scottchez said:


> I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.


If I recall correctly, that has been clarified. The four feeds of interest are recorded from that one transponder (per market) not the whole transponder. PTAT has changed from the initial release ... so some things may have been different in the original.



> Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.


A good question ... hopefully the answer will be another question: Why _*WAS*_ the OTA Tuner sooooo late. Although if it is buggy at release the answer to the new question may be self evident.

The OTA and satellite tuners are not the same device. PTAT will not use the OTA tuner ... that is part of the documentation and has been explained. But I see no technical reason why PTAT for satellite feeds cannot co-exist with a separate OTA tuner. It co-exists with two separate satellite tuners.

I have also noticed that a lot of SD markets are set up with the channel flags used for PTAT and AutoHop. Perhaps AutoHop will be available for OTA? One can dream.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I don't even know why anyone would try to connect PTAT in any way with an OTA option. I've never seen or read anything to indicate that you should assume any connection between them.

Given what Dish has said about OTA thus far... I am assuming support for some kind of USB thumb tuner like what you can get for your PC... and if it works like that, I would assume it is like adding an extra tuner... so instead of 3 SAT... you'd have 3 SAT + 1 OTA.

I would also assume that during PTAT you would have 2 SAT, 1 OTA, and then that 3rd SAT tuner continues to record the "big four" LiLs.

A lot of assumptions on my part... but frankly, it seems like assuming anything else doesn't make much sense based on the way Dish has implemented things thus far.


----------



## P Smith

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...


----------



## 3HaloODST

"P Smith" said:


> How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
> Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...


The same way the ViPs do it...?


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
> Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...


Ever notice how via satellite locals are listed in the EPG GUI as -00? For example 16-00?
Ever notice how OTA channels use -01, -02, etc and not -00 for ATSC broadcasts?

Every DISH ViP receiver with an OTA tuner (built in or add in module) manages to display the satellite -00 channels and the OTA -01, -02, etc channels. I'm pretty sure that DISH has it figured out for the Hopper.


----------



## P Smith

XiP is other beast, not old ViP ...


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> XiP is other beast, not old ViP ...


XiP is not all that different ... especially compared to ViP 922. 

DISH has been doing integrated OTA ATSC and satellite channels for many years. Why do you think it is impossible on their latest technology?


----------



## P Smith

Because of all changes since 922 came, plus a lot of things changed during transition to XiP models [813 and 913].


----------



## 3HaloODST

I say we make a bet (no, not actual money.) I say OTA will come out, you say it won't  .


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...

and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?

Really?

Are we actually having that conversation?

Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?


----------



## sregener

"chaney" said:


> It will conflict with PTAT because PTAT will not support the ability to record OTA as part of its function, thus no OTA, also seeing as I do have inside knowledge and have already had a beta test sent out to my field office to test it and see if it was a viable possibillitiy for the H/J and found the said conflict. I'm sure if cust complain enough about the OTA the software engineers could work out the quirks to allow a OTA to be useful but in all honesty,


This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? We all know PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.


----------



## patmurphey

The 23 year old "expert" is a DirecTV customer and says he is a Dish installer. We have all experienced some of that knowledge base. I think I'll pass on chaney's assertions.


----------



## P Smith

Stewart Vernon said:


> Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...
> 
> and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Are we actually having that conversation?
> 
> Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?


Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.


----------



## P Smith

sregener said:


> This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? *We all know* PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.


Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
"We all know" is not right aggregation.


----------



## P Smith

patmurphey said:


> The 23 year old "expert" is a DirecTV customer and says he is a Dish installer. We have all experienced some of that knowledge base. I think I'll pass on chaney's assertions.


I would side with a knowledge from 23 years old customer, than from some old poster here who is know how to switch channel and record some events.


----------



## sregener

P Smith said:


> Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
> "We all know" is not right aggregation.


No. PTAT is picking _programs_ from the the transponder that provides the big four LiL, and copying those programs to the PTAT folder. It is not able to record 4 different transponders, because the Hopper only has three tuners, which can only select programming from 3 transponders. Dish is working some magic to make the Hopper record 4 programs from the same transponder at the same time. The only way Dish could provide PTAT with OTA is for the OTA tuner module to have 4 tuners, not the one they've decided the Hopper will get. Thus, it stands to reason that "we all know" PTAT will not work with the OTA module, because the "magic" that permits PTAT to work on satellite will not also work on broadcast systems, vis a vis recording 4 streams with a single tuner.

If Dish does not carry a local big 4 network affiliate, they typically do not provide EPG data for it, so how could PTAT choose a channel from the EPG that is not in the EPG to begin with? What you propose is additional functionality that would be possible to code, but is not a conflict if it is not written.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

P Smith said:


> Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.


That's a dangerous and libelous statement. Even if you have inside knowledge that you aren't sharing with the rest of us... I wouldn't say something like that as a blanket statement about current employees of any company.



P Smith said:


> Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
> "We all know" is not right aggregation.


Says who? How do you know what PTAT is doing? Putting aside for the moment that I do not believe you are in any way correct with your assertion... on what are you basing this?

Do you have a link or proof to this assertion?


----------



## Reaper

Stewart Vernon said:


> That's a dangerous and libelous statement.


Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.


----------



## P Smith

Reaper said:


> Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.


It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.
I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe


----------



## Reaper

P Smith said:


> It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.
> I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe


It's definitely best not to feed the trolls.


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.


Is that not what YOU are doing with your consistent insults of DISH engineers?
Just dirty statements insulting people you don't know about work you don't know much about?

From your hacking (not signal theft, just old school hacking) you told us months ago which tuner the Hopper would support. Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner? Or can I add that to the list of things you don't know?


----------



## P Smith

James Long said:


> Is that not what YOU are doing with your consistent insults of DISH engineers?
> Just dirty statements insulting people you don't know about work you don't know much about?
> 
> From your hacking (not signal theft, just old school hacking) you told us months ago which tuner the Hopper would support. Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner? Or can I add that to the list of things you don't know?


See, Reaper, here another [now more subtle] PR trick: skew from technical standpoint of discussion ["Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner?"] to create negative perception of the opponent - add some negativity to the person: "From your hacking".

Anyway, my personal definition of these SW coder who still making same buggy product for a few generation of devices is supporting by a literal myriad of posts here and there...


----------



## James Long

So you cannot tell us the software version?

Hacking isn't a bad thing ... theft is, which is why I specifically excluded theft when I complimented you on your work. But the ability to peek under the hood and inside the firmware that is freely available via satellite isn't a crime. Don't take a compliment as an insult. I wish the term hacker was not used for thieves. It can be a noble pursuit.

That being said, I look forward to DISH releasing their product.


----------



## P Smith

Yes. When the OTA USB tuner will be in my hands, I'll answer to other questions.


For now I'll not get deeper then to say: these SW ppl has no honor nor integrity as engineers when they're making not just SW coding, but when they're fabricating evaluations by VP requests. Follow to totally disgusting corporate 'ethics'.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Reaper said:


> Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.


P Smith is saying maybe all the smart people left... and the only ones left are stupid.

I'm betting that doesn't win him any friends with any current Dish/Echostar employees. It may be his opinion, but it doesn't seem to have any basis in reality.



P Smith said:


> It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.
> I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe


I'm sorry, but what?

You're actually saying that I and others aren't providing facts and you are?

Please... I ask you for your proof of the things you have said.

Where is the proof that the smart engineers left?
Where is the proof that OTA on the Hopper causes problems with PTAT?

You said I and others are arguing without providing facts... so, where are your facts?

I would love to see them... because I know they don't exist, otherwise you would have posted them.


----------



## P Smith

I could post names of these good SW developers who left the company, but I'm have no permission from then to do that here.

As to facts, see how many bugs posting here ...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

P Smith said:


> I could post names of these good SW developers who left the company, but I'm have no permission from then to do that here.
> 
> As to facts, see how many bugs posting here ...


If you can't post names, why even bring it up?

I could start lots of threads with "I know a secret but I can't tell you" and nobody would ever know if I actually have a secret or proof or not... what would be the point in that?

I haven't seen anyone posting bugs about the OTA adapter and PTAT since it hasn't been released yet.

There's also nothing in any bugs I have seen posted that lead me to believe any of the things said about OTA and PTAT having "conflicts" is even remotely true.

And since you said you don't have one... and it isn't released yet... on what grounds are you going to assert you know it isn't coming out and conflicts with PTAT because the programmers don't know how to do it?

I never declared anything as fact... I've expressed doubt at the absolute fact some seem to be saying about things that haven't come out yet.


----------



## P Smith

I'm not siding with fan-boys, just connecting dots and bringing my own opinion(s) ... 
BTW, if you would be a participant of Linux development forums, you would find some names from estar and other side company who has been there but not anymore.
Some of them well known guys and some of them has a word about that time. I wouldn't say it was a pleasant word ...
Also, to clarify some other inquisitions - in professional circle some process has a name: reverse engineering; I don't need someone's guess to say many companies doing such work very intensively.


----------



## some guy

There are not conflict issues


----------



## P Smith

some guy said:


> There are not conflict issues


Well, said A, say B: what's the problem if promised 'summer' passed away, but we can see only a manual on dish site but the device ?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

P Smith said:


> Well, said A, say B: what's the problem if promised 'summer' passed away, but we can see only a manual on dish site but the device ?


I think that means it hasn't been released yet... so people shouldn't go around asserting what it can and cannot do when you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## moman19

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think that means it hasn't been released yet... so people shouldn't go around asserting what it can and cannot do when you don't know what you are talking about.


Hey, Mod. Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.


----------



## scottchez

Star Trek is on Tonight on METV. DIsh does not carry it on the Sat so we must have the OTA USB over the air tuner to get the local channels.
Also there is My Network TV, local Weather channels, PBS Create, PBS Kids, PBS in HD, CW in HD ect.

I wonder how many hopper customers dont know they are missing a lot of local channels. I mention this so when they come to this site they can be educated and can make an informed choice on if they care about OTA. Also in case Dish reads these posts they will know some people still want the OTA tuner and they should put more man hours on it and get it done.

My new hope is they release the USB tuner by Thanks Giving.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

_Friendly moderator direction... Please watch the name-calling. Regardless of your opinion or position in any discussion, name-calling is not allowed. Please discuss the topic without attacking each other.

Thanks!_


----------



## BenJF3

I too am waiting for info, but I hope they take something away from how DirecTV implemented OTA on the HR-34. If Dish doesn't stream OTA to the Joey's then it's worthless to me. I don't really care about PTAT as much as I do about available tuners and ability to record multiple locations. I wish Dish would hurry with this because I do prefer their line up to DirecTV now that AMC is back. I'm basically waiting out the Dish OTA solution.


----------



## RasputinAXP

...of course it streams OTA to the Joeys, THE OTA IS ANOTHER TUNER. Just like the other 3 tuners the Joey can already access.


----------



## 3HaloODST

"RasputinAXP" said:


> ...of course it streams OTA to the Joeys, THE OTA IS ANOTHER TUNER. Just like the other 3 tuners the Joey can already access.


Never really gave it much thought but I hope you are right!


----------



## scottchez

I hope we are simply waiting on something simple like FCC approval or some kind of cert like that. You know those funny cert numbers we see on electronics that they don't interfer with othe radio devices. This is a new device and in some cases the main box is connected to the phone line or Internet.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> I'm not siding with fan-boys, just connecting dots and bringing my own opinion(s) ...


Regrettably, your opinions seem to look a lot like statements of fact.

I understand that you have trouble putting words together in coherent English sentences, but you need to read what you write and make sure it represents what you intended to express and with the appropriate level of authority.


----------



## clotter

All I can say is that the USB tuner can't come soon enough. Watching the Packer game through the Dish CBS local this afternoon was painful. My wife even said, "I thought the games are supposed to be in HD..." 

A wife mentioning ANYTHING audio or video related is all the proof I need to support my opinion of how poor the quality was.


----------



## sregener

clotter said:


> All I can say is that the USB tuner can't come soon enough. Watching the Packer game through the Dish CBS local this afternoon was painful. My wife even said, "I thought the games are supposed to be in HD..."


It may not have been Dish's fault. I've seen some pretty bad quality from CBS this season on some NFL games. I knew it wasn't Dish's compression the moment they showed a highlight from a previous game (footage from a Fox-covered game) which looked fantastic. Then back to live, which looked horrible.

Still, I agree that the OTA tuner is a long-awaited accessory. It sure doesn't feel like "summer 2012" out there!


----------



## moman19

clotter said:


> ....A wife mentioning ANYTHING audio or video related is all the proof I need to support my opinion of how poor the quality was.


So true, so true! 

Sometimes I think we ARE from different planets. Mine is still trying to grasp the 16 x 9 concept :nono2:


----------



## BenJF3

"moman19" said:


> So true, so true!
> 
> Sometimes I think we ARE from different planets. Mine is still trying to grasp the 16 x 9 concept :nono2:


Yes. I'm sick of finding my TV set to "stretch" then finding my family watching an HD show with the sides cut off. ** sigh **


----------



## 3HaloODST

"BenJF3" said:


> Yes. I'm sick of finding my TV set to "stretch" then finding my family watching an HD show with the sides cut off. ** sigh **


Agreed! So irritating!


----------



## RasputinAXP

Oh, wow. Hello, mydish support page. http://www.mydish.com/support/usb-digital-ota-tuner


----------



## P Smith

OK.

The plan * is seems to show the contrapt.. umm.. as an invention at CES 2013 [and get 1st prize for it], then start a deployment in Summer [2013].*


----------



## harsh

It isn't likely to curry much favor if it is limited to "*an* additional local channel".


----------



## P Smith

harsh said:


> It isn't likely to curry much favor if it is limited to "*an* additional local channel".


OMG !

It will be limited to use just ONE channel ?!


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> OMG !
> 
> It will be limited to use just ONE channel ?!


That's how I parsed it.


----------



## scottchez

Hopefully you can buy TWO of them for $30 each and record Two channels at once instead of "an additional channel"


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> OMG !
> 
> It will be limited to use just ONE channel ?!


So, when I order the dongle, do I specify which one local channel I want to receive?
Do I specify the RF channel or the virtual channel number?


----------



## P Smith

OMG ! You must contact dish.


----------



## 3HaloODST

I'm going to place my bet that it's here by the end of the month.

Can't believe that anyone is surprised that it's only 1 tuner. I thought that was pretty apparent for a while now.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I thought that was pretty much what everyone was expecting too... The only question (to my mind) was would the Hopper support more than one OTA adapter? I'm guessing that if you have two Hoppers you could probably put one on each one... but it would be cool if you could put multiple ones on the same Hopper.

That said...

With PTAT, if you are in a market that gives you ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC HD LiL via satellite... do you really often need more than one OTA tuner after that?

I know I wouldn't.


----------



## BenJF3

Well, if its a single tuner, then I'll go with the Genie. I get local per DMA, but not local to me. I need OTA for my two local news outlets. I absolutely love the Hopper and its GUI, plus Auto Hop. Then even have more HD channels I want. I was hoping to see an OTA module with dual tuners and streaming to Joeys.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Is there even a dual-tuner USB OTA tuner available for use with computers?

Admittedly I haven't tried really hard, but all I keep finding are single tuner USB OTA adapters.


----------



## James Long

Stewart Vernon said:


> Is there even a dual-tuner USB OTA tuner available for use with computers?
> 
> Admittedly I haven't tried really hard, but all I keep finding are single tuner USB OTA adapters.


Here, let me Google that for you ...

"Sabrent TV-USBHD Dual ATSC & Digital HDTV and Analog TV Tuner / Video Capture USB 2.0 Pendrive with Remote Control and Antenna Vista Ready"
http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-TV-USBHD-Digital-Capture-Pendrive/dp/B000VKU33S/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

Personally I would prefer a solution like the HD Homerun tuners ... two tuners in one box located somewhere on the home network. Then the tuner could be attached to an OTA antenna feed on one coax and the MoCA network on another coax (or Ethernet, as a secondary connection for Ethernet Joeys). It would save running OTA coax all the way to a Hopper. HD Homeruns are more expensive than a single tuner, but in the right price range for two single tuners.

(I have an older single tuner HD Homerun that is connected to the antenna without the antenna feed going to any other devices. If I get a Hopper dongle I'll have to split that feed and run a cable to my Hopper.)


----------



## moman19

BenJF3 said:


> Well, if its a single tuner, then I'll go with the Genie. I get local per DMA, but not local to me. I need OTA for my two local news outlets. I absolutely love the Hopper and its GUI, plus Auto Hop. Then even have more HD channels I want. I was hoping to see an OTA module with dual tuners and streaming to Joeys.


I don't get it. With the OTA adapter, you will have FOUR tuners available before and after Prime Time, which is when most local news shows usually run. You say you want to record two news outlets. Isn't one OTA and one SAT tuner sufficient to meet that requirement? How many other events do you need to record simultaneously at those particular half-hour time slots? You'll still have two SAT tuners available.


----------



## BenJF3

moman19 said:


> I don't get it. With the OTA adapter, you will have FOUR tuners available before and after Prime Time, which is when most local news shows usually run. You say you want to record two news outlets. Isn't one OTA and one SAT tuner sufficient to meet that requirement? How many other events do you need to record simultaneously at those particular half-hour time slots? You'll still have two SAT tuners available.


Neither sat provides my actual locals. I get address based locals for my DMA out of Syracuse (50 miles away). Utica (about 15 miles away) actually covers my area. I record alot off both ABC & NBC affiliates there because they do a lot of locally produced programming, some of which I've worked on. So, I easily can tie up two OTA tuners at any given time.

If satcos were allowed to carry both, like Time Warner currently does then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd only use OTA for those stations that neither satco carry.

I'll admit my circumstances are out of the norm.


----------



## moman19

BenJF3 said:


> Neither sat provides my actual locals. I get address based locals for my DMA out of Syracuse (50 miles away). Utica (about 15 miles away) actually covers my area. I record alot off both ABC & NBC affiliates there because they do a lot of locally produced programming, some of which I've worked on. So, I easily can tie up two OTA tuners at any given time.
> 
> If satcos were allowed to carry both, like Time Warner currently does then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd only use OTA for those stations that neither satco carry.
> 
> I'll admit my circumstances are out of the norm.


I now see your dilemma. But this begs the question as to why you don't simply receive the Utica Locals via SAT if that's the actual DMA where you reside. Is the Utica market not provided by Dish? Or, is this simply a database error? If you're 15 miles away from the local Utica network affiliates, I don't see how stations 50 miles away should even be made available to you. I thought the FCC created (dumb) rules to prevent such egregious behavior.

Frankly, I like the idea of having the choice of network affiliates.


----------



## renpar61

2 (or more) silly questions... I apologize in advance :grin:

1) these USB OTA modules are quite easily found on the market. I assume they wouldn't work now on the Hopper because not (yet) supported by Dish software. Correct?

2) are these modules coupled with a particular type of antenna? Once the module is available, for people without an OTA antenna, would Dish provide/install one? Better off going to a specialist?


----------



## P Smith

1 - as we see, dish choose to ditch any other manufacturer of USB OTA tuner; I'm pretty sure a few of these lined up for authorization their USB sticks; it should be matter of certification of HW and fulfill SW Linux API;
2 - should not; don't expect antenna setup from dish tech - do it yourself.


----------



## BenJF3

"moman19" said:


> I now see your dilemma. But this begs the question as to why you don't simply receive the Utica Locals via SAT if that's the actual DMA where you reside. Is the Utica market not provided by Dish? Or, is this simply a database error? If you're 15 miles away from the local Utica network affiliates, I don't see how stations 50 miles away should even be made available to you. I thought the FCC created (dumb) rules to prevent such egregious behavior.
> 
> Frankly, I like the idea of having the choice of network affiliates.


Nope, as I stated it is by address. I fall under the Syracuse DMA. I want the Syracuse DMA as all affiliates are HD. However, they don't cover our local news unless its a major event. So, if I switch to a sat provider then a solid OTA solution is a must. PTAT would cover the big four out of Syr, but I'd need a dual OTA for the other off schedule stuff I want from Utica.


----------



## sregener

BenJF3 said:


> If satcos were allowed to carry both, like Time Warner currently does then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd only use OTA for those stations that neither satco carry.


According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)

Note that providing distant signals would require Dish to insert those black messages about programming rights when a distant station airs something that a local one has exclusive rights to, just like cable does, and the difficulty in coordinating those on a nationwide basis is probably the reason Dish doesn't bother.


----------



## BenJF3

"sregener" said:


> According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)
> 
> Note that providing distant signals would require Dish to insert those black messages about programming rights when a distant station airs something that a local one has exclusive rights to, just like cable does, and the difficulty in coordinating those on a nationwide basis is probably the reason Dish doesn't bother.


I called both providers out on this and was told that locals are only provided based on address. Now, I could "move" and provide a billing address, but I'd much rather use an antenna ang get everything.

Time Warner never blacks anything out or runs crawls. In fact, they had a carriage dispute with the Utica NBC affiliate where the station was removed from the Utica line up and we never lost it.


----------



## James Long

sregener said:


> According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)


Don't confuse Significantly Viewed with Distants. Significantly Viewed channels are defined by people receiving them over the air ... not the ability to receive the channels but actual statistical viewership over the air in a defined community. Distants do not need to be received over the air by anyone in the market that receives a distant signal.

Distants can be blocked from carriage easily ... as long as there is a major network station in the DMA satellite cannot import a distant of the same network. And Distants from an earlier time zone are no longer allowed.

The biggest difference between cable and satellite on Significantly Viewed channels is the requirement to carry. If a station obtains Significantly Viewed status for a community the cable system MUST offer carriage. Perhaps the cable system would want to offer carriage anyways, but SV was created to allow stations to force their way onto cable systems where the station was viewed over the air (a level of actual recorded viewership). There is no must carry SV for satellite.

I wish the laws were better in this area ... to allow carriage of any signal that can be received over the air regardless of the DMA or actual viewership. But the laws we have are the ones that need to be followed. Even if they are unfair.


----------



## scottchez

When I called to upgrade to the Genie they said the OTA tuner was not supported only on the older HR2x models.
There is also a long thread on this site with several also saying it is not supported.
Then there was one guy saying it is supported on the Genie HR34, so I am not sure what to think. 
One thing is for sure the new OTA USB will be supported by Dish, you will just need to put up your own rabbit ears or ant. The online docs say it is supported.

I gave up on waiting on OTA and got the Hopper anyway, my DirecTV Hard Drives keep going out (there very old HR20s and HR21s). So old they do not even want the HR20s back that are on lease.

I can wait a few weeks missing my local channels like:
METV and Star Trek
CW in HD
PBS in HD
MY Network TV
LiveWell
PBS Kids
PBS Create
and the Local Weather sub channel (just hope no blizzards come soon might need extra weather news). .



BenJF3 said:


> Well, if its a single tuner, then I'll go with the Genie. I get local per DMA, but not local to me. I need OTA for my two local news outlets. I absolutely love the Hopper and its GUI, plus Auto Hop. Then even have more HD channels I want. I was hoping to see an OTA module with dual tuners and streaming to Joeys.


----------



## P Smith

we don't know how long we should wait for the OTA USB now

it was a "Summer" ...
perhaps today it would be "Summer" again


----------



## harsh

3HaloODST said:


> Can't believe that anyone is surprised that it's only 1 tuner. I thought that was pretty apparent for a while now.


I'm unfamiliar with why this is apparent. Enlighten me.

The MT2 provides two streams to a Duo DVR so it doesn't seem unreasonable that the Hopper would get a similar or better setup; especially given the recent upswing in the number of local channels that DISH doesn't carry.


----------



## P Smith

3HaloODST said:


> *I'm going to place my bet that it's here by the end of the month.*
> 
> Can't believe that anyone is surprised that it's only 1 tuner. I thought that was pretty apparent for a while now.


Really wanna bet ? I'm staking on CES 2013.

One tuner, well I see only one reason - make more buzz with minimum cost. 
You should knew the company's motto.


----------



## sregener

James Long said:


> I wish the laws were better in this area ... to allow carriage of any signal that can be received over the air regardless of the DMA or actual viewership. But the laws we have are the ones that need to be followed. Even if they are unfair.


Copyright law sucks. It just does. Only not having it would be worse.

The "any signal that can be received over the air" issue would be very, very difficult to enact. I had a 70' tower on my previous property, with a 18dBi gain antenna and 28dB preamplifier on it. I was able to receive stations from a neighboring state that the engineers there said were impossible to receive - they did terrain analysis and said I had no chance. Yet there they were. But other channels on the same broadcasting tower didn't come in, or very rarely came in. And some days, the good signals wouldn't come in at all, even though they were there 80% of the time. Now, I knew people who lived further down the street (and down in topography) that would have required a 100'+ tower to get the same results. Should they get the same channels as I did? There was one day when I received an analog station from 1000 miles away (lo-VHF) clear as a bell. I've received digital stations from over 250 miles away under the right conditions. My results are not exceptional. Search on "Dxing" for some truly amazing results.

So in short, I don't think we could come up with a workable standard (FCC coverage contours are not accurate enough, in my book) for what stations they should be able to deliver vs. not based on reception OTA.

What I think would be a much more workable standard would be to allow customers to select a DMA from their general area. Since I was 12 miles away from my desired DMA (75 miles away from the actual transmitters) it could have been made a choice. We could say, "Choose 1 DMA from either your address-based DMA or a neighboring one." Then, if you're on the edge of one, there isn't this virtual cliff to fall off of.


----------



## James Long

sregener said:


> The "any signal that can be received over the air" issue would be very, very difficult to enact.


I was thinking of the standards set by the FCC, which are based on the receiving antenna being at 30ft. Modern computers and terrain databases allow for a lot more detail in estimating reception. Some smoothing of the contours should be expected.

Remember, these are permissive contours. Being in would allow one to receive the signal (beyond any DMA line). And while a line will always have an in side and an out side I would probably be generous enough that people would more likely be on the in side and not want the station (and hopefully have another option from a different direction) before they would be on the out side of the contour and miss a station they wanted.

Then again, I live in an area with decent real coverage as well as predicted coverage. I think it is silly that people who live closer to the next market's towers and can even get indoor coverage can't get their station via satellite because of some arbitrary market line. Especially in situations where a cable system must offer carriage to a station that satellite is forbidden to carry. Unequal laws.


----------



## scottchez

I agree.
I live in the Omaha DMA area and get those stations via the Dish Sat. I am 20 miles away form the Lincoln DMA Boarder and I get ABC, PBS, CBS, and soon Fox from that DMA via OTA.
I am also 20 miles from Iowa and I get there PBS station based in Des monies.

I cant wait to get the OTA USB tuner for the Hopper so I can get all TV Markets.


----------



## Calvin386

I am set to have the Hopper/Joey installed tomorrow(11/7). I was able to order the OTA module. It is supposed to be on the truck.  We'll see....


----------



## bobukcat

Calvin386 said:


> I am set to have the Hopper/Joey installed tomorrow(11/7). I was able to order the OTA module. It is supposed to be on the truck. We'll see....


My fellow Kentuckian, please report back tomorrow with your experience. If you do indeed get the OTA module I'm going to have to see if I have RG6 to the locations I need it (I've looked numerous times and still can't tell which if it's RG6 or RG59 guess I'll need to cut the end off one and strip it down to see) and if I do I'll be ordering us an early Christmas present of two Hoppers w/ OTA modules!


----------



## dunkonu23

Clearly, I'm interested in hearing the experiences with the OTA module.

Scott


----------



## Grandude

bobukcat said:


> My fellow Kentuckian, please report back tomorrow with your experience. If you do indeed get the OTA module I'm going to have to see if I have RG6 to the locations I need it (I've looked numerous times and still can't tell which if it's RG6 or RG59 guess I'll need to cut the end off one and strip it down to see) and if I do I'll be ordering us an early Christmas present of two Hoppers w/ OTA modules!


You shouldn't have to go that far. Just look at the size of the wire coming out of the connecter. RG59 is quite thin and RG6 is much thicker. That has been my experience anyway. Go to hardware store that sells both and compare so that you know what you are looking for.

It will be a bit harder to know if what you have will actually handle the necessary bandwidth. Tool to do this is cost prohibitive.


----------



## scottchez

This happened to an other guy in an other post on the other site.
What happens is the CSR does not know that the OTA module (key word module) does not work on the Hopper. So you get a cartridge to plug into the 722. The Hopper does not have a slot.
What you need is the OTA USB tuner, not the module. The USB is small square and black. The module is silver and looks like a cartridge you plug into something.
Just be on the look out so you dont get charged for something you cant use.



Calvin386 said:


> I am set to have the Hopper/Joey installed tomorrow(11/7). I was able to order the OTA module. It is supposed to be on the truck. We'll see....


----------



## jtp1947

I am also scheduled for a Hopper installation tomorrow, 11/7 and just called Dish to order the USB tuner. First I was told it would automatically come with the Hopper. I knew this was incorrect. I tried to explain to the CSR what it was and what it did. He said can't you just plug your antennae into your TV? He finally located the OTA tuner and said they have not shipped yet and didn't know when they would. He put notes in my file so wouldn't have to explain the entire story again. He had no ETA.


----------



## P Smith

There was official word: "Summer", so just wait a few months for the "Summer".


----------



## James Long

Soon. Very soon.


----------



## BenJF3

I hope so. I'm also hoping the tweak the software for a seamless 2 Hopper set up. If like to have a 2 Hopper 3/4 Joey set up with OTA for all, but have the 2 Hopper appear as one Host unit.


----------



## James Long

BenJF3 said:


> I hope so. I'm also hoping the tweak the software for a seamless 2 Hopper set up. If like to have a 2 Hopper 3/4 Joey set up with OTA for all, but have the 2 Hopper appear as one Host unit.


I would not hold my breath for that one. At best I could see a Joey jumping from one Hopper to another if there were no tuners available ... but I would not expect a complete six tuner integration (eight with an OTA tuner on each Hopper). If they do that it will be a pleasant surprise, but I don't expect that level of integration.


----------



## BenJF3

Just want the ability to have everything see all scheduled recordings so people are not scheduling duplicates. I'm liking how the Genie does it with its 5 tuners, but prefer the HD channels I'd get from Dish. I'm watching them both. Unless, Time Warner delivers a good DVR solution I'm going to be leaving them.


----------



## dunkonu23

P Smith said:


> There was official word: "Summer", so just wait a few months for the "Summer".


That's true. They never said which summer. 

Scott


----------



## rjruby

dunkonu23 said:


> That's true. They never said which summer.
> 
> Scott


Nor which hemisphere!


----------



## Calvin386

The installer arrived today without an OTA module.


----------



## BenJF3

"Calvin386" said:


> The installer arrived today without an OTA module.


No surprise here


----------



## bobukcat

Waiting for OTA for the hopper and some other comments about the Genie (HR34) made me go look at DirectTV, something I've never really done seriously before (Dish customer for almost 14 years). After seeing their setup with the HR34 and the MRV boxes and the fact that I could get a dual OTA tuner today, can anyone tell me why it's worth waiting for E* to release OTA for the Hopper? I've done some research but haven't really seen a direct comparison between the two systems. Thoughts?


----------



## jeffdb27

bobukcat said:


> Waiting for OTA for the hopper and some other comments about the Genie (HR34) made me go look at DirectTV, something I've never really done seriously before (Dish customer for almost 14 years). After seeing their setup with the HR34 and the MRV boxes and the fact that I could get a dual OTA tuner today, can anyone tell me why it's worth waiting for E* to release OTA for the Hopper? I've done some research but haven't really seen a direct comparison between the two systems. Thoughts?


DISH has more HD channels
DirecTV has more sports channels (NFL/MLB)


----------



## scottchez

Sometimes it comes down to personal preference.
My self I could not stand the DirecTV Guide.
I would suggest going to a DireCTV retailer and to try the Genie out before getting into a 2 year contract.
For the Hopper go to a Blockbuster or DIsh Retailer and try it out.
Other than one has more Movies and one has more Sports, I have had both. They are real similar, think about it, they are competitors, they have to be close.


----------



## harsh

bobukcat said:


> After seeing their setup with the HR34 and the MRV boxes and the fact that I could get a dual OTA tuner today, can anyone tell me why it's worth waiting for E* to release OTA for the Hopper? I've done some research but haven't really seen a direct comparison between the two systems. Thoughts?


You need to do a detailed comparison every two years at a minimum. Using someone else's results is folly as their needs are doubtless different than yours.

If you truly don't like upsetting the apple cart (and it seems obvious that you don't), you need to make sure you look at the long-term pricing as the introductory stuff from both companies is hard to dismiss.


----------



## [email protected] Network

I just wanted to let everyone know the Hopper OTA module was released earlier today. The module connects via USB and has one built in tuner. The Hopper OTA module is available at www.mydish.com for $30.


----------



## jeffdb27

[email protected] Network said:


> I just wanted to let everyone know the Hopper OTA module was released earlier today. The module connects via USB and has one built in tuner. The Hopper OTA module is available at www.mydish.com for $30.


Shows out of stock!:eek2:


----------



## P Smith

Oh ! Summer came early this year!  Perhaps ancient Mayas screwed one more time ?

Give me two, please.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Nah, Indian Summer.

crap, wait, am I allowed to say that anymore?


----------



## P Smith

I thought you got snow and heavy rain already ... Here is almost the time, just little cold midnight.


----------



## BenJF3

"[email protected] Network" said:


> I just wanted to let everyone know the Hopper OTA module was released earlier today. The module connects via USB and has one built in tuner. The Hopper OTA module is available at www.mydish.com for $30.


One tuner fail.

Can more than one be used?

Does it stream content to the Joeys?

Can one be used at each Hopper in a two hopper install?

Local install claims that the Hopper software is updated to accommodate a two Hopper setup where the Hoppers act as one cohesive unit. IE: a 4TB DVR. If this is so, I can overlook the one tuner for OTA and will order a two Hopper, three Joey setup. I would like to be able to record both my local news feeds on occasion, but could live without.


----------



## scottchez

Still says not avl on the store , when do they update it? At night?
Do you have to call to order it?


----------



## RasputinAXP

BenJF3 said:


> One tuner fail.
> 
> Can more than one be used?
> 
> Does it stream content to the Joeys?
> 
> Can one be used at each Hopper in a two hopper install?
> 
> Local install claims that the Hopper software is updated to accommodate a two Hopper setup where the Hoppers act as one cohesive unit. IE: a 4TB DVR. If this is so, I can overlook the one tuner for OTA and will order a two Hopper, three Joey setup. I would like to be able to record both my local news feeds on occasion, but could live without.


Local installer's fibbing. One could be used at each Hopper, though; I don't know about two on one.


----------



## 3HaloODST

P Smith said:


> Oh ! Summer came early this year!  Perhaps ancient Mayas screwed one more time ?
> 
> Give me two, please.


I win  !


----------



## James Long

All we need now is firmware to make it work.


----------



## 3HaloODST

Hope there will be manual timers and the recycle bin with the upcoming firmware. Perhaps I am a little too wishful?


----------



## BenJF3

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Local installer's fibbing. One could be used at each Hopper, though; I don't know about two on one.


My sticking point is integration because one Hopper just doesn't have enough tuners to support the number of outlets in my home. If they made another model of Hopper that had 6 available tuners plus two OTAs then I'd go for that.

If they get two Hopper integration where they behave as one unit and share recorded lists, scheduled recordings and ORA tuners then I'm there. I'll cancel Time Warner that day.

If DirecTV adds the HD they are missing before Dish delivers, then I'll go with them since they have an integrated 5 tuner (plus 2 OTA) already out. I'd prefer Dish because the GUI is superior.

I wish we could get some idea of what is coming. I fail to understand why Dish release a unit dependent on client boxes with so few tuners for the clients to stream from.


----------



## 3HaloODST

Looks like the software will be rolling out tonight  .


----------



## P Smith

Will see ... if it's true.


----------



## RasputinAXP

BenJF3 said:


> I wish we could get some idea of what is coming. I fail to understand why Dish release a unit dependent on client boxes with so few tuners for the clients to stream from.


Because the number of installs demanding such a thing is very small.


----------



## jdskycaster

BenJF3 said:


> My sticking point is integration because one Hopper just doesn't have enough tuners to support the number of outlets in my home. If they made another model of Hopper that had 6 available tuners plus two OTAs then I'd go for that.
> 
> If they get two Hopper integration where they behave as one unit and share recorded lists, scheduled recordings and ORA tuners then I'm there. I'll cancel Time Warner that day.
> 
> If DirecTV adds the HD they are missing before Dish delivers, then I'll go with them since they have an integrated 5 tuner (plus 2 OTA) already out. I'd prefer Dish because the GUI is superior.
> 
> I wish we could get some idea of what is coming. I fail to understand why Dish release a unit dependent on client boxes with so few tuners for the clients to stream from.


While it would be a nice feature to manage all the timers on a pair of Hoppers as one list is it really that hard to just set them up independently? Somehow I manage to do just that on the pair I have and it works fine. I can access any of the content from anywhere in my house regardless of where it was recorded. I can also manage the Hoppers from any remote Joey unit including the timers. They can also be managed via the internet from a browser anytime and anywhere.

My sister has a Time Warner DVR and it is just plain crap so I fail to see what hardware solution they have provided you that trumps the current Dish setup. It would also be nice to have two dozen tuners available but there is a limit to how many simultaneous streams any given hardware can handle reliably. I really do not need the OTA tuners but will most likely add one just to streamline my setup a bit. I currently have a dual tuner OTA setup on my Media Center PC and just stream it to XBOX 360's. Having OTA local to the Hopper/Joey setup would be a bit more convenient.


----------



## jeffdb27

jdskycaster said:


> I can also manage the Hoppers from any remote Joey unit including the timers. They can also be managed via the internet from a browser anytime and anywhere.


Can you manage one Hopper's timers from the other Hopper? Can you watch one Hoppers tuners from the other Hopper? A completely integrated solution would be nice, but failing that, at least the two functions could be somewhat useful.


----------



## sregener

$30 is pretty reasonable. I was expecting $50 or more. I guess I'll be working on putting up an antenna system sooner than I planned...


----------



## dunkonu23

Still shows out of stock... what's the point in releasing something that nobody can buy? 

It's close to being summer in the Southern Hemisphere...  

Scott


----------



## 3HaloODST

3HaloODST said:


> Looks like the software will be rolling out tonight  .





P Smith said:


> Will see ... if it's true.


S229 on all H's, S278 on all J's now  . OTA software is here   . Now for the hardware...


----------



## BenJF3

RasputinAXP said:


> Because the number of installs demanding such a thing is very small.


It's still a reasonable expectation if you have 4 outlets to have a system that can support at minimum 2 recordings and 4 live streams. There is certainly a demand for it.



jdskycaster said:


> While it would be a nice feature to manage all the timers on a pair of Hoppers as one list is it really that hard to just set them up independently? Somehow I manage to do just that on the pair I have and it works fine. I can access any of the content from anywhere in my house regardless of where it was recorded. I can also manage the Hoppers from any remote Joey unit including the timers. They can also be managed via the internet from a browser anytime and anywhere.
> 
> My sister has a Time Warner DVR and it is just plain crap so I fail to see what hardware solution they have provided you that trumps the current Dish setup. It would also be nice to have two dozen tuners available but there is a limit to how many simultaneous streams any given hardware can handle reliably. I really do not need the OTA tuners but will most likely add one just to streamline my setup a bit. I currently have a dual tuner OTA setup on my Media Center PC and just stream it to XBOX 360's. Having OTA local to the Hopper/Joey setup would be a bit more convenient.


It's an ease of use issue among multiple users. Integration is key. It's one of the main reasons I want to ditch these terrible Time Warner pieces of crap. Right now, I have 4 avaible tuners, but the DVR's can only see each other's recorded lists. They CAN'T see the scheduled recordings which results in duplicates and wasted tuners. When there are 4-5 people using the system it's imperitive to have integration. My wife may schedule something and then be looking for it on another unit, she doesn't see it scheduled and sets up a series recording for it. Now, both units are wasting space and tuners recording the same show twice. My point of leaving Time Warner is for a better solution.


----------



## James Long

3HaloODST said:


> S229 on all H's, S278 on all J's now  . OTA software is here   . Now for the hardware...


My H/J is still at S222/S271 ... so not "all" yet.


----------



## 3HaloODST

James Long said:


> My H/J is still at S222/S271 ... so not "all" yet.


Meant all of my receivers  .


----------



## James Long

BenJF3 said:


> It's still a reasonable expectation if you have 4 outlets to have a system that can support at minimum 2 recordings and 4 live streams. There is certainly a demand for it.


DISH probably should have limited their system so only one Joey could be used per Hopper. Would that make you happy?

The ability to add additional Joeys to a Hopper helps with lesser used sets and with sharing a tuner between locations that are not used at the same time. If all of your TVs are on at the same time and everyone wants to watch something live on different channels then I'd recommend a second or third Hopper.

Crippling the system so outputs do not exceed inputs is not the answer - and each Hopper is physically limited to three satellite tuners. Perhaps DISH should have designed it differently to add more tuners ... but it is what it is.



> My wife may schedule something and then be looking for it on another unit, she doesn't see it scheduled and sets up a series recording for it. Now, both units are wasting space and tuners recording the same show twice. My point of leaving Time Warner is for a better solution.


My better solution is training ... my wife and I both have a Hopper. We set our own recordings on each unit. If there is overlap big deal ... the hard drives are big enough to handle the overlap. The biggest conflict we had was deleting programs ... she would delete something I had not watched. Now with dedicated Hoppers, she only deletes stuff on her Hopper and life is happier.


----------



## BenJF3

James Long said:


> DISH probably should have limited their system so only one Joey could be used per Hopper. Would that make you happy?
> 
> The ability to add additional Joeys to a Hopper helps with lesser used sets and with sharing a tuner between locations that are not used at the same time. If all of your TVs are on at the same time and everyone wants to watch something live on different channels then I'd recommend a second or third Hopper.
> 
> Crippling the system so outputs do not exceed inputs is not the answer - and each Hopper is physically limited to three satellite tuners. Perhaps DISH should have designed it differently to add more tuners ... but it is what it is.
> 
> My better solution is training ... my wife and I both have a Hopper. We set our own recordings on each unit. If there is overlap big deal ... the hard drives are big enough to handle the overlap. The biggest conflict we had was deleting programs ... she would delete something I had not watched. Now with dedicated Hoppers, she only deletes stuff on her Hopper and life is happier.


Yea, training. So, you still have people running around to the Hoppers to verify whats set to record. It's not a matter of crippling anything. It's a completely reasonable request for anyone with a large home/multiple rooms. Some people just fail to see that. They don't need to redesign it if the software can be made to support the integration for those who need it. It wouldn't really even be an issue if the Hopper had six available tuners instead of three, but it doesn't so I'm looking at options to put together a system that can accomodate my needs. DirecTV had the wherewithal to at least do a 5 tuner host where three clients can stream with 2 tuners left or 4 clients with 1 tuner left. It's an issue of who has what you want. It seems no provider has a complete solution. I like DirecTV's setup/install better, but I've had a chance to use the Hopper at a demo and the GUI and HD channel selection is better with Dish.

Can anyone confirm exactly how a two Hopper setup works in this application? What are the limitations in respect to what I'm looking for?


----------



## MCHuf

RasputinAXP said:


> Because the number of installs demanding such a thing is very small.


Well, Tivo, D*, Ceton, Arris/Moxie, etc. say otherwise.


----------



## BenJF3

MCHuf said:


> Well, Tivo, D*, Ceton, Arris/Moxie, etc. say otherwise.


If Time Warner would give me the option to get an Arris Whole Home Gateway running the Moxi Software, I'd take that with a few Clients. They are hell bent on making subs suffer Navigator. I'm otherwise ok with Time Warner. Their HD line up crushes both satcos for what I want. (E* comes closest, hence why I'm here), but the DVR is just terrible. Without a solid DVR solution, I may as well cancel TV services. This is why I'm particular about getting a solid solution for my household needs.


----------



## mdavej

3HaloODST said:


> S229 on all H's, S278 on all J's now  . OTA software is here   . Now for the hardware...


Hardware is finally here too as of this morning. Plus a ton of new features in 229 like SD PTAT, SiriusXM album art, recordings recycle bin and bluetooth audio. Almost makes me wish I didn't have cable... almost


----------



## RasputinAXP

BenJF3 said:


> If they made another model of Hopper that had 6 available tuners plus two OTAs then I'd go for that.





MCHuf said:


> Well, Tivo, D*, Ceton, Arris/Moxie, etc. say otherwise.


Link, please.


----------



## lparsons21

mdavej said:


> Hardware is finally here too as of this morning. Plus a ton of new features in 229 like SD PTAT, SiriusXM album art, recordings recycle bin and bluetooth audio. Almost makes me wish I didn't have cable... almost


So far the reports are that you can't get the OTA module yet but is expected within a few days.

This upgrade looks to be a killer upgrade, bringing lots of new functionality to the Hopper/Joey scenario.

Only thing lacking is unified management imo.


----------



## patmurphey

BenJF3 said:


> ...If DirecTV adds the HD they are missing before Dish delivers, then I'll go with them since they have an integrated 5 tuner (*plus* 2 OTA) already out...


Sure about that? Doesn't DirecTV's OTA use the HR34/Genie's tuner count?


----------



## scottchez

It is now for sure avl in the dish store. I just ordered Two.
Others on other sites also confirmed they can order.

Now we just need the Guide Data for all the Sub channels. I just looked at the chart and my DMA is missing some guide data. I hope dish takes requests to add guide data.

Will DIRT Members be able to submit requests to add Guide Data?
What was the procedure for the 722 OTA?


----------



## jeffdb27

scottchez said:


> Will DIRT Members be able to submit requests to add Guide Data?
> What was the procedure for the 722 OTA?


The procedure for the 722 OTA was that if your guide data wasn't there for whatever reason, you were pretty much screwed. I've posted a few times the experience I had with one station. DISH said it was the stations fault and the station said it was DISH's fault. It had been fine for years, then it wasn't there. If it's the same for the Hopper, then we will be really screwed since there are no manual timers.

I just ordered an OTA tuner for my Hopper as well. I wonder how long it will take to get here!


----------



## BenJF3

"patmurphey" said:


> Sure about that? Doesn't DirecTV's OTA use the HR34/Genie's tuner count?


When I was researching Genie users claimed that adding an AM-21N allowed for OTA streaming to all clients. I don't see why a separate active tuner would not be included, but it's possible that no one clarified it adding to the overall tuner count. Still, the Genie has 5 active tuners out of the box plus OTA integration. The OTA should at least allow for live viewing if the other 5 are busy. I'll pose that question in the Genie topic unless some here can confirm.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Hopper here. I'm trying to properly vet it so I make sure I know what I'm going to get into for a two year commitment. I really like the unit and can accept having two, IF its going to do what I need it to do in order to work for me.


----------



## jeffdb27

So, I already have two EHDs and Sling Adpater. That's it for USB ports. I have tried using a USB hub with mixed results. Where will i plug in the OTA adapter? 

Does anyone know if the latest software updates have enabled the eSata port?


----------



## scottchez

Was your USB hub owered? I have read others reported it had to be powered.


----------



## PhantomOG

just ordered.

Is this a single or dual tuner? From the description, it sounds like a single tuner.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

So... just checkmarking here...

1. OTA will never come out? Nope... it apparently just came out.
2. Will conflict with PTAT? Will have to wait for people to get theirs, but no indication this was true either.

From where I sit... it looks like the only thing "wrong" is that Dish missed their desired "this summer" release date... but that the other speculation and unfounded rumors about lack of functionality were incorrect.

Interesting.


----------



## bobukcat

I just went through an on-line chat to check on pricing for an upgrade but they said the OTA Module is "Unavailable" so I told them nevermind. I was surprised to be told that an upgrade to the Hopper would come with a $95 installation charge - I thought they were doing free installs for upgrades with a new 2 year commitment but I was either wrong or that offer has expired. Anxious to hear about other's experiences with the OTA module.


----------



## thomasjk

The OTA module is available for Hopper. I ordered one today. The upgrade charge depends on your account status and whether or not you have the protection plan. Contact one of the DIRT members like Ray C http://www.dbstalk.com/member.php?u=95802 or RaymondG http://www.dbstalk.com/member.php?u=98831 for help.


----------



## 3HaloODST

Just ordered my OTA tuner!


----------



## billcg

I just successfully ordered one!!! I'll post when (if) it arrives...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I can't think of any logical reason why a 2-Hopper system couldn't each have an OTA adapter and each one be used to watch/record OTA.

The question I'm REALLY interested in is... if a Hopper can support more than one OTA adapter on the same Hopper.

I haven't heard anything about that. For those who want more tuners, it would be a nice option to have and they could sell you more adapters.


----------



## 3HaloODST

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> I can't think of any logical reason why a 2-Hopper system couldn't each have an OTA adapter and each one be used to watch/record OTA.
> 
> The question I'm REALLY interested in is... if a Hopper can support more than one OTA adapter on the same Hopper.
> 
> I haven't heard anything about that. For those who want more tuners, it would be a nice option to have and they could sell you more adapters.


Only one OTA adapter per Hopper, it looks like.


----------



## bobukcat

For those that ordered the OTA Module, did you receive any kind of shipment notice or tracking number, etc.?


----------



## jeffdb27

I just received a tracking information yesterday evening. It says scheduled delivery is by end of day Thursday. I'm in Kansas and it is shipping from Colorado.


----------



## Jhon69

PhantomOG said:


> just ordered.
> 
> Is this a single or dual tuner? From the description, it sounds like a single tuner.


Single tuner.


----------



## EdBott

Hello folks!

There is a nice write-up on this device at Engadget. (Sorry I can't post the link)

I currently have directv but am looking at maybe switching to dish network because I am out of contract with directv. Does anyone know how many of these usb tuners you can hook up?


----------



## bobukcat

EdBott said:


> Hello folks!
> 
> There is a nice write-up on this device at Engadget. (Sorry I can't post the link)
> 
> I currently have directv but am looking at maybe switching to dish network because I am out of contract with directv. Does anyone know how many of these usb tuners you can hook up?


Here is the referenced link but it doesn't really cover much detail on the USB OTA Module: http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/14/dish-network-hopper-ota-module-software-update/

I would send it to the Dish CSRs who continue to tell me that it's not available but I know that its beyond their control and not their fault their systems don't give them more information.


----------



## tomtb

jeffdb27 said:


> I just received a tracking information yesterday evening. It says scheduled delivery is by end of day Thursday. I'm in Kansas and it is shipping from Colorado.


Me too! I am in Alabama and it supposed to be delivered Thursday.


----------



## P Smith

If someone ordered two for one H ?


----------



## allenwoodruff

I have been holding out on upgrading to the hopper until the OTA adapter came out. I ordered 2 yesterday and they are scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Really looking forward to the hopper system. I have installation of 2 hoppers and 3 joeys scheduled for Sunday.


----------



## mdavej

I heard the s/w to support OTA is still rolling out, so you may not have it by Sunday. Just FYI.


----------



## 3HaloODST

Got my adapter today! I don't know if it's just me, but the dongle seems to be more powerful than the MT2 module. Perhaps it's because it's one tuner vs two?

Btw, for those that are wondering, any standard A-B USB cable appears to work with the dongle. I'm using an old printer cable on my dongle and it works great! No short cable here!


----------



## P Smith

> to be more powerful


How is that ?
Are you transmitting OTA signal to your winter cabin ?


----------



## Joe Spears

bobukcat said:


> Here is the referenced link but it doesn't really cover much detail on the USB OTA Module: http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/14/dish-network-hopper-ota-module-software-update/


Scott at SatGuys did a nice 'First Look' of the OTA module here.


----------



## jeffdb27

3HaloODST said:


> Got my adapter today! I don't know if it's just me, but the dongle seems to be more powerful than the MT2 module. Perhaps it's because it's one tuner vs two?
> 
> Btw, for those that are wondering, any standard A-B USB cable appears to work with the dongle. I'm using an old printer cable on my dongle and it works great! No short cable here!


I got my adapter today, too. Plugged it in and nothing happened. How long did you have to wait before it was detected? What version of software does your Hopper have? I'm at "S222 NACB 10/10/2012, 4:30AM"

Thanks


----------



## 3HaloODST

"jeffdb27" said:


> I got my adapter today, too. Plugged it in and nothing happened. How long did you have to wait before it was detected? What version of software does your Hopper have? I'm at "S222 NACB 10/10/2012, 4:30AM"
> 
> Thanks


You'll need S229. My receivers have S229. It detected the adapter immediately. You'll hopefully be getting the new software anywhere between tonight and 2 weeks from now.


----------



## BenJF3

Can anyone confirm if the Joeys can simultaneously stream OTA from the Hopper?


----------



## bobukcat

BenJF3 said:


> Can anyone confirm if the Joeys can simultaneously stream OTA from the Hopper?


Not sure what you mean by simultaneously but the "First Look" on the other site showed a Joey using the OTA channels.


----------



## BenJF3

I mean if a Joey is using the OTA does it become unavailable to another Hopper or Joey that wants it? One would think so, but I could be wrong.


----------



## tommiet

*OK... I give. How do I order one? Could not find anything on DISH's website.*


----------



## n0qcu

Yes you can join the OTA channel being watched but you cannot watch a different OTA channel.


----------



## BenJF3

n0qcu said:


> Yes you can join the OTA channel being watched but you cannot watch a different OTA channel.


What if you have multiple Hoppers, each with their own OTA tuner? That should allow for streaming off any available tuner, right? My situation would call for 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys.


----------



## P Smith

You'll need switch J between Hs: unlink and pair it again.


----------



## BenJF3

P Smith said:


> You'll need switch J between Hs: unlink and pair it again.


I see. This is the reason I'm hoping for better integration. While I could likely easily manage this, most in the family will find it an annoyance. Thanks to all for the info.


----------



## jeffdb27

BenJF3 said:


> What if you have multiple Hoppers, each with their own OTA tuner? That should allow for streaming off any available tuner, right? My situation would call for 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys.


I am curious about this too. If you have two hoppers (no Joeys), is one hopper able to watch the tuners (OTA or SAT) of the other hopper? In essence, can one hopper be a client of another one? I know it can watch recorded shows of the other hopper, but what about live tuners?

I was considering getting a second Hopper instead of a Joey since I understand the montly fee of $7 is the same either way. Maybe all three tuners are busy on the Hopper I am using and I want to watch something else. Can I access the free tuners on the other Hopper?


----------



## BenJF3

jeffdb27 said:


> I am curious about this too. If you have two hoppers (no Joeys), is one hopper able to watch the tuners (OTA or SAT) of the other hopper? In essence, can one hopper be a client of another one? I know it can watch recorded shows of the other hopper, but what about live tuners?
> 
> I was considering getting a second Hopper instead of a Joey since I understand the montly fee of $7 is the same either way. Maybe all three tuners are busy on the Hopper I am using and I want to watch something else. Can I access the free tuners on the other Hopper?


Not sure about that as a basic function. My understanding from my questioning here is that you can't at this time. That's the integration I speak of. Where a two Hopper install basically networks them into one DVR to the end user in which any connect Joey would take any available tuner as needed. The operation becomes "seamless" with no switching and re-linking. If they did that, I'd already be signed up! It's the one thing I'm debating over deciding between DirecTV or Dish. DirecTV has this functionality, but I lose other things I want (HD Channels, a superior UI, Auto Hop). I have to consider the household and not myself only, so I want something everyone can be happy with.


----------



## bobukcat

jeffdb27 said:


> I am curious about this too. If you have two hoppers (no Joeys), is one hopper able to watch the tuners (OTA or SAT) of the other hopper? In essence, can one hopper be a client of another one? I know it can watch recorded shows of the other hopper, but what about live tuners?
> 
> I was considering getting a second Hopper instead of a Joey since I understand the montly fee of $7 is the same either way. Maybe all three tuners are busy on the Hopper I am using and I want to watch something else. Can I access the free tuners on the other Hopper?


I don't have mine yet (Install scheduled for Sunday :joy: )but from what I have read I believe that the Hoppers can only view what is recorded on the other Hopper, they can't use or join a tuner on the other Hopper. If I'm wrong about this I'm sure someone here will correct me. 

If your client is a Joey you can unpair from the busy Hopper, pair it to the other Hopper and watch any of the tuners on that Hopper.


----------



## BenJF3

bobukcat said:


> I don't have mine yet (Install scheduled for Sunday :joy: )but from what I have read I believe that the Hoppers can only view what is recorded on the other Hopper, they can't use or join a tuner on the other Hopper. If I'm wrong about this I'm sure someone here will correct me.


No, I believe you are right. That was the consenus I gathered. Rumors of that functionality float around as "coming down the road". Right now, that one of the biggest gripes I have with Time Warner Whole Home setup. I can only see what's recording or recorded from clients or multiple DVR's. To me, it's worthless unless I can see schedules as one. I could live without tuner sharing, but it sure would be great. I just don't want all the duplicate recordings (that is when the Time Warner DVR actually records and doesn't glitch out). My other concern is VOD and what Dish offers for that. Their website isn't very informative. It's more ad hype than info.


----------



## chriscpmtmp

My module showed up today. That was pretty quick since I ordered it Wednesday. The install was easy. It seems to work pretty good.

The only weird thing is when changing channels on the Joey to the OTA, it brings up the tuner conflict screen every time. I can see the need to take over the tuner the first time, but after that is weird. What I mean is to change between ABC OTA and ABC from Dish, just up/down, it keeps bringing up the conflict screen. hmmm.


----------



## BenJF3

I can see the lack of a dual tuner on a single Hopper being an issue. This is one reason I prefer the Genie/HR-34 install and setup which allows for a dual tuner OTA add on. Problem is I prefer the Dish GUI, HD lineup, and Hopper features. Did you verify your software version is up to date? Keep us posted on any issues or if you resolve it.


----------



## jeffdb27

3HaloODST said:


> You'll need S229. My receivers have S229. It detected the adapter immediately. You'll hopefully be getting the new software anywhere between tonight and 2 weeks from now.





chriscpmtmp said:


> My module showed up today. That was pretty quick since I ordered it Wednesday. The install was easy. It seems to work pretty good.


Why is everyone's OTA Adapter working but mine? I called tech support and she says I have the current version of software (S222). This is BS. She said I'll get an update that will enbale the adapter when it is ready. She had no timeframe to give me.


----------



## thomasjk

jeffdb27 said:


> Why is everyone's OTA Adapter working but mine? I called tech support and she says I have the current version of software (S222). This is BS. She said I'll get an update that will enbale the adapter when it is ready. She had no timeframe to give me.


The software to enable the OTA module is rolling out and will be S230 for the Hopper and S278 for Joey. No one can tell you exactly when you will get the update. I've had my module for 2 days and am still waiting. Patience grasshopper


----------



## jeffdb27

thomasjk said:


> The software to enable the OTA module is rolling out and will be S230 for the Hopper and S278 for Joey. No one can tell you exactly when you will get the update. I've had my module for 2 days and am still waiting. Patience grasshopper


I don't mind waiting, but there are plenty of people on here who seem to have working adapters. You shouldn't be able to order this item online and then get it and be told you can't use it and we don't know when you will be able to. Put some kind of notice on the order page, at least!


----------



## 3HaloODST

"jeffdb27" said:


> I don't mind waiting, but there are plenty of people on here who seem to have working adapters. You shouldn't be able to order this item online and then get it and be told you can't use it and we don't know when you will be able to. Put some kind of notice on the order page, at least!


To be fair, most people aren't even aware that the adapter exists at the moment.


----------



## P Smith

I count only three posters with S2.29/S2.30 !

See sticky thread about the version's experience. There you'll find when and what particular boxes upgrading.


----------



## tomtb

P Smith said:


> I count only three posters with S2.29/S2.30 !
> 
> See sticky thread about the version's experience. There you'll find when and what particular boxes upgrading.


I got the OTA adapter and the update Thursday. The adapter works fine.


----------



## scottchez

They are doing a phased roll out by Recevier ID and should be done by Dec 1st according to one CSR (not a reliable source).

Just wondering what the latest update range is. Can some of you out there that got it post the frist FIVE numbers after your R number.
Just push Setup Twice to see it. It is the second line under Receiver CD ID num
Do not post the whole number as that is like a serial number which links back to your account.
No need to post if you did not get the update.
Mine is way up there at R18841 so I may be last. (just got it a couple of weeks ago)

Example I got it, my number is R18811 or R18812

I think Fridays range was:
Receiver Card Numbers R1881149252-R1881288030


----------



## James Long

P Smith has the numbers range in the S230 thread ... it is fairly expansive.


----------



## patmurphey

BenJF3 said:


> I can see the lack of a dual tuner on a single Hopper being an issue. This is one reason I prefer the Genie/HR-34 install and setup which allows for a dual tuner OTA add on. Problem is I prefer the Dish GUI, HD lineup, and Hopper features. Did you verify your software version is up to date? Keep us posted on any issues or if you resolve it.


The Genie can't begin to compare with 2 Hopper system. 6 tuners (plus PTAT) plus 2 OTA Additional tuners. For the difference in overall service cost you can add a Joey ($7mo) next to a Hopper and with a simple HDMI input change, have access to all tuners, timer setting, and all recordings from that location. Far more storage space, more timers and events, a truly versatile EHD arrangement and a far better interface. To me, the only reason to even consider the Genie and suffer through its problems and limitations would be the sports packages. Fortunately for Genie users DirecTV allows you to keep other HD DVR/receivers in addition to clients to ease some of the limitations.

Now back to OTA for the Hopper...


----------



## allenwoodruff

I had a 2 hopper, 4 joey install yesterday anlong with 2 OTA adapters and everything is working fine. When I plugged in the OTA adapter, it recognized it immediately and prompted me to reboot the receiver. After the reboot, I scanned for local channels and added the channels. The joeys can see the OTA channels. 

Initally I didn't have guide data for the OTA channels, but after a few hours, the guide data appeared. 

Overall, I am very pleased with the hopper and the OTA module.


----------



## jeffdb27

:flaimingStill pissed....:flaiming


----------



## RasputinAXP

??? about what?


----------



## thomasjk

About no software update.


----------



## scottchez

==DISH SUGGESTION BOX==

OPTION ONE:
I would think the DIRT members or the Dish Firmware deployment team could run a report of every customer that purchased it in the last week and then add them to tonights update list or at least tell us what the top secret force an update now key code is. 
For DirecTV to force an update you rebooting then pushed 0 2 4 6 8 at the first screen. I would think dish would have some kind of emergency code like this in case the firmware software got corrupted. Other wise we could be looking at Dec 1st to get it with maybe even more delays from the holiday weekend.

OPTION TWO: for the firmware update code add the PID string for IF USB OTA Hardware installed and then in tonights 1am upgrade everyone with it plugged in gets the update. We could all then help test it.

Example (add something in here):
PID=08E0h 11/12/12 23:02:44
DownloadID:40NA
Upgrading parts of new FW with filters:
S229:'S040'-'S0ZZ','S223'-'S228','AYA7'-'AYA7'
S229:'1[A-D0-2]1[A-B0-1]'&'S040'-'S0ZZ','S223'-'S229','AYA7'-'AYA7'
New FW:'S229'&'S229'
List of BootStraps and BuildConfigs and SN:
'1...'&'NA[CFJ].': {XiP813} R0000000001-R4000000000


----------



## renpar61

Got OTA module, installed it, works like a charm with a $20 indoor antenna!

Question: there is a group of channels, including GolTV (I never knew it was broadcasted over the air), that show on the guide but have a dark scrren if you select them. They have maximum (100) strength signal, so I know it's not a signal issue.
What are those?


----------



## P Smith

Call GM of the station and tell him/her - we can't help you.


----------



## scottchez

Those are often ION TV Station sub channels. $10 a month and you need a special box. Is it on the same sub channel as ION?



renpar61 said:


> Got OTA module, installed it, works like a charm with a $20 indoor antenna!
> 
> Question: there is a group of channels, including GolTV (I never knew it was broadcasted over the air), that show on the guide but have a dark scrren if you select them. They have maximum (100) strength signal, so I know it's not a signal issue.
> What are those?


----------



## jpeckinp

Has anybody addressed the issue of having an RG59/6 cable connected to an adapter in a USB port? What kind of stress does this put on the board connection? Will we start seeing a bunch on Hopper MOBO's not working on the USB ports because of broken ports or solder joints.


----------



## jeffdb27

jpeckinp said:


> Has anybody addressed the issue of having an RG59/6 cable connected to an adapter in a USB port? What kind of stress does this put on the board connection? Will we start seeing a bunch on Hopper MOBO's not working on the USB ports because of broken ports or solder joints.


The adapter connects by USB cable to the HOPPER. The RG6/59 cable causes no stress on the MOBO/USB port of the HOPPER.


----------



## Michael P

renpar61 said:


> Got OTA module, installed it, works like a charm with a $20 indoor antenna!
> 
> Question: there is a group of channels, including GolTV (I never knew it was broadcasted over the air), that show on the guide but have a dark scrren if you select them. They have maximum (100) strength signal, so I know it's not a signal issue.
> What are those?


Probably a subscription channel transmitted by one of your local OTA stations. What is it's channel number? Are there other channels/subchannels from the same station?


----------



## P Smith

Some technical info about the USB tuner [dongle]:

Designed in USA 2012
Model: BTC-2038

VID_215A PID_C001
Manufacturer: "Echostar "
MaxPower: 500 mA
SerialNumber: 0x0A <same for all !>

U4 2153 40 - [SI2153-A40-GM] WORLDWIDE HYBRID ATV/DTV TUNER Silicon Laboratories
U8 MT8534F - Demod
U7 AU0828AB - USB bridge by Auvitek International


----------



## charlesrshell

P Smith said:


> Some technical info about the USB tuner [dongle]:
> 
> Designed in USA 2012
> Model: BTC-2038
> 
> VID_215A PID_C001
> Manufacturer: "Echostar "
> MaxPower: 500 mA
> SerialNumber: 0x0A <same for all !>
> 
> U4 2153 40 - [SI2153-A40-GM] WORLDWIDE HYBRID ATV/DTV TUNER Silicon Laboratories
> U8 MT8534F - Demod
> U7 AU0828AB - USB bridge by Auvitek International


Where is it made?


----------



## jtp1947

Designed in the United States, manufactured in India. Received mine 11/21 but still on S222/271 installed 11-7-2012 R1884.
Still on 2.22/271 which was installed 11/7. I called Dish on 11/21 and was on the phone for 2 hours. The advanced tech told me 2.22 should work for the OTA module and I possibly had a dead module. I told him I needed a software update, he put me on hold, came back and told me I was correct. He then tried to force a download to 2.29 but was unsuccessful. He did a work ticket for the engineers and guaranteed 2.29 would show up in 24-48 hours. It has not happened, very frustrating.


----------



## scottchez

I wish Dish could send it to those that ordered it now, or tells us the top secrete buttons to push on the DVR to force an update (DirecTV you just pushed 0 2 4 6 8 at startup).



jtp1947 said:


> Designed in the United States, manufactured in India. Received mine 11/21 but still on S222/271 installed 11-7-2012 R1884.
> Still on 2.22/271 which was installed 11/7. I called Dish on 11/21 and was on the phone for 2 hours. The advanced tech told me 2.22 should work for the OTA module and I possibly had a dead module. I told him I needed a software update, he put me on hold, came back and told me I was correct. He then tried to force a download to 2.29 but was unsuccessful. He did a work ticket for the engineers and guaranteed 2.29 would show up in 24-48 hours. It has not happened, very frustrating.


----------



## Ray [email protected] Network

The updates are released in batches to receivers. The receivers must be powered off for the update to occur if the receiver is part of the batch file. The receivers must be idle. I have S2.30 on my receiver so you should get the update soon. Thanks.



scottchez said:


> I wish Dish could send it to those that ordered it now, or tells us the top secrete buttons to push on the DVR to force an update (DirecTV you just pushed 0 2 4 6 8 at startup).


----------



## crabtrp

I installed mine on Friday. Worked great, got the guide data quickly. On Saturday the ota channels went black, still showing great reception. I did a red button reset, they came back, annoying.

Today they went black again. I unplugged the Hopper unit and plugged it back in, the channels are back. Hopefully this will not be a continuing issue. Am I the only one who has seen this?

When this thing works I get a fantastic picture quality.


----------



## 3HaloODST

"crabtrp" said:


> I installed mine on Friday. Worked great, got the guide data quickly. On Saturday the ota channels went black, still showing great reception. I did a red button reset, they came back, annoying.
> 
> Today they went black again. I unplugged the Hopper unit and plugged it back in, the channels are back. Hopefully this will not be a continuing issue. Am I the only one who has seen this?
> 
> When this thing works I get a fantastic picture quality.


I had that happen only once in the past couple of weeks. I could be wrong but it seems to happen more often the more you scan for OTA channels. Are you by any chance frequently scanning for OTA channels?


----------



## crabtrp

3HaloODST said:


> I had that happen only once in the past couple of weeks. I could be wrong but it seems to happen more often the more you scan for OTA channels. Are you by any chance frequently scanning for OTA channels?


No - I scanned when I got it, not since then.


----------



## bobukcat

crabtrp said:


> I installed mine on Friday. Worked great, got the guide data quickly. On Saturday the ota channels went black, still showing great reception. I did a red button reset, they came back, annoying.
> 
> Today they went black again. I unplugged the Hopper unit and plugged it back in, the channels are back. Hopefully this will not be a continuing issue. Am I the only one who has seen this?
> 
> When this thing works I get a fantastic picture quality.


I've not seen the guide problem. Both OTA modules seem to work very well and the reception seems to be better than it was with the OTA tuner in my 622s. I've experienced one "glitch" where the OTA channel was pixelating terribly and dropping out. Rebooting the Hopper fixed it and I've not seen it again. There is no doubt that have OTA reveals the flaws in the same channel received via satellite.


----------



## crabtrp

My channels were lost again last night. At this point my OTA module is unusable.


----------



## 3HaloODST

"crabtrp" said:


> My channels were lost again last night. At this point my OTA module is unusable.


Just be glad that you've even got the new OTA software. I'm pretty sure that those still on S222 would have a better definition of "unusable."

At this point just reboot and move on. I'm sure that future updates will fix these issues.


----------



## thomasjk

Got the latest software S230 last night and now have my OTA tuner working.


----------



## jtp1947

Got the 2.30/2.78 update last night. Unable to get ABC, channel 7 now but could with my 722. Anyone else in So Cal, Orange County have the same problem?


----------



## Reaper

thomasjk said:


> Got the latest software S230 last night and now have my OTA tuner working.


+1


----------



## scottchez

Wow this tuner is so much better that the Directv AM21 , the HR20 and the old Dish 722 OTA tuner. I have tried them all. With multi pathing its the best. I am pulling stations from 60 miles in the nearby DMA


----------



## Reaper

crabtrp said:


> My channels were lost again last night. At this point my OTA module is unusable.


My OTA channels are going black nightly too. A reset fixes it (temporarily) but that's not so easy to do in the evening when shows are recording.


----------



## DishTim

Reaper said:


> My OTA channels are going black nightly too. A reset fixes it (temporarily) but that's not so easy to do in the evening when shows are recording.


Same thing here.....all locals are gone!


----------



## thomasjk

DishTim said:


> Same thing here.....all locals are gone!


As are mine.


----------



## 3HaloODST

I guess I'm lucky. I only had the black screen issue once.


----------



## bobukcat

3HaloODST said:


> I guess I'm lucky. I only had the black screen issue once.


Same here except the only problem I've had was one night when they were all pixalating real bad, other than that no problems.


----------



## thomasjk

My OTA channels were fine during the day yesterday and last evening as I posted above they all went to black screen. They are all OK today after the nightly reboot. I haven't tried "pull the plug" hard reboot but I will.


----------



## scottchez

Today I went to an OTA channel it said could not get signal or signal lost. 
All OTA were then all black
I went to setup and it said the normal 90% signal 
I rebooted and it fixed.
2nd hopper had no issues. It has no Joeys
Bad hopper has one Joey and a sling adapter.
We need DIRT to open or update the ticket on this issue as it seems to be spreading.


----------



## thomasjk

thomasjk said:


> My OTA channels were fine during the day yesterday and last evening as I posted above they all went to black screen. They are all OK today after the nightly reboot. I haven't tried "pull the plug" hard reboot but I will.


I pulled the plug and of course they came back only to go back to the black screen issue later in the day. The hard reset also brought back by EHD. We'll see if its still there in the morning.


----------



## jerry downing

My EHD had not given me any trouble until I added OTA. Now I get the same problem. Dropped EHD and black OTA consistently. Do I blame S230 or The addition of OTA which occurred at the same time? I have noticed that people who are complaining about one problem also have the other.
The hopper manual states only one USB device can be used at a time so why three USB ports? Perhaps a later software revision allows more than one USB device and the manual was not revised accordingly.
I will not record from OTA because I do not want to record black.


----------



## 722921

Sounds like a big fly in the soup...


----------



## thomasjk

thomasjk said:


> I pulled the plug and of course they came back only to go back to the black screen issue later in the day. The hard reset also brought back by EHD. We'll see if its still there in the morning.


The EHD is missing in action again and OTA is working correctly for now.


----------



## Grandude

jerry downing said:


> I have noticed that people who are complaining about one problem also have the other.
> The hopper manual states only one USB device can be used at a time so why three USB ports? Perhaps a later software revision allows more than one USB device and the manual was not revised accordingly.
> I will not record from OTA because I do not want to record black.


I'm starting to wonder if there might be something in common like the brand of EHD. Perhaps those with the problem could mention the HD brand and size.

Also, if it were me, I would try powering off the EHD when not actually using it to see if, even tho the USB cable to the drive is connected, it might not affect the OTA reception.


----------



## scottchez

I figured out how to reproduce on demand.
The issue is if the signal drops to zero due to multi pathing too many times the software for OTA driver crashes requiring a reboot. It has to drop about 5 times. To reproduce unplug the ant cable for just 2 seconds then plug it back in ,repeat until crash. Reboot fixes every time. My strong signal stations do not cause this as there is no multi path issue.


----------



## jack byron

My EHD had not given me any trouble until I added OTA. Now I get the same problem. Dropped EHD and black OTA consistently. Do I blame S230 or The addition of OTA which occurred at the same time? I have noticed that people who are complaining about one problem also have the other.
The hopper manual states only one USB device can be used at a time so why three USB ports? Perhaps a later software revision allows more than one USB device and the manual was not revised accordingly.
I will not record from OTA because I do not want to record black.


----------



## jeffdb27

jeffdb27 said:


> :flaimingStill pissed....:flaiming


Well, I went on vacation for a week, and was happy to come home and find that I finally got the software update to enable the OTA tuner.

I was not happy, but also not surprised, to find that the guide info for my local FOX is still missing. KAAS Salina, KS mirrors KSAS, Wichita. Worked for years then stopped.

I didn't know this adapter would tune analog stations but it is. We have a weak (LP) ABC translator here that it is receiving. The guide info is there even for that station!


----------



## 3HaloODST

scottchez said:


> I figured out how to reproduce on demand.
> The issue is if the signal drops to zero due to multi pathing too many times the software for OTA driver crashes requiring a reboot. It has to drop about 5 times. To reproduce unplug the ant cable for just 2 seconds then plug it back in ,repeat until crash. Reboot fixes every time. My strong signal stations do not cause this as there is no multi path issue.


I guess that explains why some people experience the black screen more than others. I only had it once, personally.


----------



## Reaper

There's a thread about the OTA black screen issue over on Sat Guys. The advice seems to be to make sure your OTA tuner is flat. Then delete all OTA channels and save, then rescan the OTA channels and save again. Any OTA timers will have to be recreated.

I too had my EHD drop off a couple times since I added the OTA module. I only followed the above instructions yesterday but am hopeful that it will help.


----------



## sregener

I debated starting a new thread on this, but I wonder if I'm the only one seeing this behavior:

I have a Dish Slingbox Adapter and an OTA module. I see three issues so far with this setup.

1) I cannot set up recordings remotely for OTA channels - they do not show up in the guide - using dishonline or the Android app.

2) I cannot playback an OTA recording using the Sling adapter, either while they are recording or after playback is complete.

3) You cannot manually add channels if a scan does not see them (feature unavailable) and you cannot keep channels that the most recent scan did not see, even if you've had them in the past (such as with a rotor-mounted antenna.)

Other than that, I'm loving the OTA adapter. Even with a temporary antenna mount which is in a horrible position, I'm getting all but one of my local channels reliably. When the weather warms up, I'll be moving it to a better location and adding a rotor, which will give me a serious boost.

I have not seen the black channel problem except for channels that a current scan does not receive. Tuning to another OTA channel works fine. I've done at least 10 channel scans so far.


----------



## jeffdb27

With the vip722k and Sling Adapter, you could see the contents of a connected external hard drive. That ability has disappeared with the Hopper.


----------



## byli5

Just got DISH Hopper + Joey and just got OTA module. Getting local channels but no guide info. Can you tell me what the next step is?


----------



## 3HaloODST

"byli5" said:


> Just got DISH Hopper + Joey and just got OTA module. Getting local channels but no guide info. Can you tell me what the next step is?


Wait. It'll have the data that's available within 15 minutes to 24 hours.


----------



## byli5

3HaloODST said:


> Wait. It'll have the data that's available within 15 minutes to 24 hours.


Actually it has been about 26 hours. I can be patient if that's what's required. Thanks


----------



## 3HaloODST

"byli5" said:


> Actually it has been about 26 hours. I can be patient if that's what's required. Thanks


If it's just showing the call signs for the channels then chances are the guide data isn't available.


----------



## James Long

If none of the local channels are giving EPG waiting the day (or two) for the receiver to get it's brains together (as most of us have had to do when getting a Hopper - even before OTA) is not a bad idea. If some of the locals have EPG and others do not (other than channels added in a just completed scan) you may want to check to see what EPG DISH carries for locals.

I have a list of all the local channel EPGs on my website:
http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html

Look for your market and any channels you may receive from an adjacent market. If the channel/subchannel is not listed on that page, DISH does not provide EPG for that channel/subchannel.

DISH uses a hidden indicator "TSID" that is transmitted on local stations to match an over the air received feed with the EPG data transmitted via DISH. The call letters are irrelevant for the match. If the station is transmitting a different TSID or is not transmitting a valid TSID there will be no match and EPG will not show for that OTA channel. The TSIDs as DISH knows them are shown on my page.

DISH does not use the EPG that is transmitted over the air by the station. They get their guide data from Tribune Media and match it to the channels. Sometimes DISH sends the wrong EPG data for an OTA channel. Getting them to admit that and fix it is non-trivial.


----------



## 3HaloODST

Good information. Judging by your post, chances are Dish will never have the guide data for my local ABC. The ABC which is pushed down the satellite feed is one that is about 65 miles away. ABC mirrors that station on a different channel here and the mirror is only about 6 miles away. It really sucks. Especially with this initial software version that doesn't even allow you to record stations without guide data. Not to mention the lack of manual timers.



On the older receivers, channels without guide data would just show up as "Digital Service." On Hopper, channels without guide data show up with just their call signs. Just to clarify on my previous post.


----------



## byli5

I'm amzed that you were able to aggregate all the signal data. I see why you are a super moderator. I checked and my channels for Roanoke, VA do have TSID data and so I am hopeful that I can eventually get it right but I am not sure what to do next. The satellite installer left me his cell #. Do you think he could fix it? What about the DIRT folks I see referenced here and there?


----------



## James Long

The DISH Executive Office folks were unable to fix the EPG in my market. I doubt that DIRT or a local installer would have any more ability. The executive office people refused to acknowledge that the data was transmitted via satellite and that DISH satellite receivers matched satellite transmitted data to channels. And (at least at that time) their ability to send things on to a tech for repair was one way. They claimed that they would not get notified by the tech on progress of the repair and could not follow up on previous requests. (At least that is what I was told.) The executive office wanted to blame my receivers ... so I suppose replacing every OTA enabled receiver in my market would have fixed their broken data feed.


----------



## viperentrap

Hi all,
Despite seeing the black out issues here, I decided to order the OTA along with the Hopper (finally joining the HD world - just recently donated the CRTs - they just would not die). Not too clear what Scott meant about "multi pathing too many times" causing the driver to crash - if that is true then I guess it means s/w update. 

I noticed some messages about only 1 USB device can be used. I wonder if its because the hopper cant power too many devices. Anyone using a EHD with its own power supply? If so do you experience blackouts?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

viperentrap said:


> I noticed some messages about only 1 USB device can be used. I wonder if its because the hopper cant power too many devices. Anyone using a EHD with its own power supply? If so do you experience blackouts?


Dish only supports self-powered EHDs... so if anyone tries a USB-powered EHD it is a use-at-your-own-risk situation.

There are multiple ports... I have to think one could use the Sling Adapter and the OTA adapter at the same time, otherwise that would be a problem. I would also think you are meant to be able to use EHDs at the same time as well... though at some point you'll probably need a USB-hub to connect everything at the same time, especially if you go for the multiple USB drives that can be seen at the same time.


----------



## Cardini

I am using an OTA, EHD and Sling adapter all at the same time through the available USB ports on the Hopper without issues.


----------



## Reaper

Cardini said:


> I am using an OTA, EHD and Sling adapter all at the same time through the available USB ports on the Hopper without issues.


+1

My issues settled down after I stopped trying to tune in weak OTA channels.


----------



## william Bray

I have reviewed this thread since the OTA was released and haven't seen this discussed by anyone with the OTA enabled (except for speculation before the OTA was released0. If I only receive local channels OTA will I be able to record all the network programming for the week as advertized for the Hopper? Thanks.


----------



## James Long

william Bray said:


> I have reviewed this thread since the OTA was released and haven't seen this discussed by anyone with the OTA enabled (except for speculation before the OTA was released0. If I only receive local channels OTA will I be able to record all the network programming for the week as advertized for the Hopper? Thanks.


PTAT only uses the satellite fed channels. You can set normal timers for the OTA channel content, but PTAT will only record from the satellite versions.


----------



## william Bray

Thanks. That's what I figured.


----------



## sregener

william Bray said:


> I have reviewed this thread since the OTA was released and haven't seen this discussed by anyone with the OTA enabled (except for speculation before the OTA was released0. If I only receive local channels OTA will I be able to record all the network programming for the week as advertized for the Hopper? Thanks.


The OTA adapter has a single tuner in it. Each Hopper can support only one OTA adapter. If you had 2 Hoppers, each with an OTA adapter, you'd be able to record half the network programming for the week. That is all.


----------



## 722921

Is there still a shortage of the tuners?


----------



## Cardini

If you're asking if there's an adequate # to meets ones recording needs then:
Only if you think 3 sat tuners and one OTA tuner per hopper is not enough.
Everyone's needs are different.

If you're asking about the availability of the OTA tuners from Dish, then why not give them a quick call.


----------



## GB1

As of yesterday the Ota Tuners were backordered.


----------



## 722921

GB1 said:


> As of yesterday the Ota Tuners were backordered.


Thanks. Any ideas when they will be available again?
No point in switching from my current setup until then...


----------



## GB1

I didnt ask when they would be available. Im going from a 722 with 1 OTA tuner to a Hopper/Joey tomorrow. I thought I would see if the 3 tuners worked with my family before I added the OTA.


----------



## some guy

They are back in stock as of a few days ago.


----------



## 722921

Where do you see them available?
They don't show up at all for under mydish/myaccount/orderfromstore


----------



## P Smith

he is special - he has mighty account


----------



## some guy

I just checked again and I see it there as an option to order, but it looks like the Add To Cart button isn't working. It looks like it is there and other reported it being there as well a few days ago. Maybe try chatting in and asking a rep if they can manually order one for you.


----------



## thomasjk

some guy said:


> I just checked again and I see it there as an option to order, but it looks like the Add To Cart button isn't working. It looks like it is there and other reported it being there as well a few days ago. Maybe try chatting in and asking a rep if they can manually order one for you.


The Add to Cart button does work. You have to scroll back up the page to see your cart.


----------



## some guy

I guess its been a long day and my eyes don't work. You are right, so they are in stock and the button is working to add them to the cart.


----------



## 722921

Do you have to have a hopper on your profile to see it, because I still cannot...


----------



## thomasjk

722921 said:


> Do you have to have a hopper on your profile to see it, because I still cannot...


Yes


----------



## 722921

Kind of a chicken or egg thing...why order a hopper w/o ota ready to hook up for the install?
Do the installers deliver the ota dongle along with the hopper/joeys?
Any DIRTs out there? I'm ready to upgrade...almost.


----------



## P Smith

so far only online order could give you the dongle


----------



## 722921

Well I'm upgrading soon, order is in. Got the dongle at the same time, which will be shipped in time to have the installer plug and play it while he is at it. I had to keep reminding the chat lady about it throughout the order process...


----------



## 722921

H/2J install today took 3 hours, replaced my 722/622.
I have 100% signal on my favorite ota channels but shortly after viewing all of them, they all now show a blank screen. So I double checked...100%.
My antenna has a clear shot to the mountain top transmitters and there is no cause for multipath. The 722 rarely had an interuption.
So what gives and how is this fixed?
DIRT???


----------



## some guy

Rescan the locals and it should fix the problem.


----------



## 722921

Did that yesterday. Oddly enough, they are back this morning...?


----------



## thomasjk

722921 said:


> Did that yesterday. Oddly enough, they are back this morning...?


The nightly reboot also fixes the problem.


----------



## crabtrp

I never depend on making a recording on the OTA since I never know if it is working.


----------



## 722921

thomasjk said:


> The nightly reboot also fixes the problem.


This is a hopper feature?
As long as it works...
Good advice on depending on recordings from ota.


----------



## jeffdb27

722921 said:


> This is a hopper feature?
> As long as it works...


Yes, and it is on the 722 as well. But on the 722 you could tell it what time you would like it to perform the updates. With the Hopper, it starts asking at about 1am (for me) and if I decline it asks again a bit later. This repeats, presumably until it gets the reboot it wants.

I was trying to archive a long program off to the DVD recorder late one night after going to bed, but (even after declining the first system maintenance prompt) it rebooted right during the middle of the recording.

This needs to be addressed. Once you say not to reboot, that should be it for that night. And bring back the option to tell it when to do the "updates". Not everyone has the same schedule!


----------



## fmcomputer

Having problem with Hopper USB OTA - Have to rescan at least twice a week .


----------



## P Smith

fmcomputer said:


> Having problem with Hopper USB OTA - Have to rescan at least twice a week .


perhaps better OTA antenna will cure the issue ? or signal booster ?


----------



## fmcomputer

P Smith said:


> perhaps better OTA antenna will cure the issue ? or signal booster ?


On my 722 I had the OTA would give an error signal lost. I guess the H does not give an error it just wipes out all OTA channels.


----------



## thomasjk

fmcomputer said:


> On my 722 I had the OTA would give an error signal lost. I guess the H does not give an error it just wipes out all OTA channels.


Not necessarily. I have gotten the signal lost message without losing all the OTA channels. Weak channels play a part in this issue.


----------



## LtMunst

Just ordered my OTA adapter. Couple of questions about points brought up earlier.

#1..Is it still true that you cannot manually enter a new OTA channel? If so, how do you scan channels if they are in multiple antenna directions?

#2..Do the OTA channels work at all with Sling?


----------



## jeffdb27

LtMunst said:


> Just ordered my OTA adapter. Couple of questions about points brought up earlier.
> 
> #1..Is it still true that you cannot manually enter a new OTA channel? If so, how do you scan channels if they are in multiple antenna directions?
> 
> #2..Do the OTA channels work at all with Sling?


#1. This is a problem if you have a rotor and need to scan different directions. When you rescan currently, it wipes out all the stored channels. They do have a button to add a station, but it says something like feature coming soon.

#2. I think so. I have my sling adapter unplugged currently, but I can check later if noone beats me to it.


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## koralis

jeffdb27 said:


> Yes, and it is on the 722 as well. But on the 722 you could tell it what time you would like it to perform the updates. With the Hopper, it starts asking at about 1am (for me) and if I decline it asks again a bit later. This repeats, presumably until it gets the reboot it wants.
> 
> I was trying to archive a long program off to the DVD recorder late one night after going to bed, but (even after declining the first system maintenance prompt) it rebooted right during the middle of the recording.
> 
> This needs to be addressed. Once you say not to reboot, that should be it for that night. And bring back the option to tell it when to do the "updates". Not everyone has the same schedule!


It's even easier than that. The machine knows when recordings are scheduled. It can pick any time it likes that has a 1 hr free window (probably really only need the half hour, but why take chances?)

It should also not being trying to reboot while tv output is on.

It has all the info it needs to stay out of your way... that it doesn't use it is a sign of lazy programmers.


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## jeffdb27

jeffdb27 said:


> #1. This is a problem if you have a rotor and need to scan different directions. When you rescan currently, it wipes out all the stored channels. They do have a button to add a station, but it says something like feature coming soon.
> 
> #2. I think so. I have my sling adapter unplugged currently, but I can check later if noone beats me to it.


Well, I was wrong. I could not see my OTA channels through the Sling adapter. One can also not see programs transferred to EHDs - which was possible on the vip722.

Of course, if you record something from an OTA channel, that recording is available on the Sling (unless you move it to an EHD). It is probably even available while it is still recording.


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## jeffdb27

koralis said:


> It's even easier than that. The machine knows when recordings are scheduled. It can pick any time it likes that has a 1 hr free window (probably really only need the half hour, but why take chances?)
> 
> It should also not being trying to reboot while tv output is on.
> 
> It has all the info it needs to stay out of your way... that it doesn't use it is a sign of lazy programmers.


All good points.

It still makes no sense why they took the perfectly good option of letting the user decide what time of the day to perform these updates.


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## sregener

I don't recall seeing this before, but last night I watched Thursday's American Idol recorded OTA and it had AutoHop available. Still on S234.


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## LtMunst

I can now happily confirm that on a Hopper w/sling (S303), the OTA adapter does in fact work with sling.  I can watch OTA channels on my Iphone client. The only glitch is that OTA channels without guide information do not show up at all in the sling guide. They can be tuned to manually, however.


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