# How Do You Rate Your R-15 ?



## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

I am a Dish subscriber but have some limited (not recent) experience with the r15 and HR20. Directv currently has a great offer for new subs and my wife wants us to take the offer. No HD so I would need the R15. I have told my wife that based on my limited experience and what I read on these forums that the R-15 is just not reliable and we would wind up frustrated after our very good experience with the Dish 508. Could some of you folks who have the R15 give me your comments regarding your recent experiences with this DVR? I would certainly appreciate finding out what people currently think of it.

Thanks


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Was a Dish customer for over 8 years and endured problem after problem with new hardware platforms.

Lived with a couple Dish 721s and learned what the expression "paying beta tester" really meant. Up to the point I left the 721s never got close to the promise of what Dish said they would be and they cost me $500 each.

Been with DTV a little over a year and have two R15-300s. Initially the R15 was about as bad as my dish 721s and then things got rolling. Frequent SW revs that actually addressed specific problems and complaints.

As of now, I rate the DTV R15 far above the Dish 721 and the equal or better than a buddy's two 625s with better support and customer service from DTV than Dish.

Be aware, the R15 will not do two TVs as the Dish 625 can.

I'm happy I made the move to DTV and the R15s.

JMO YMMV


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## nhoJ (Jul 7, 2007)

I have an R15-100. Works great for me. I don't have anything else to compare to, but I don't have any of the problems that others have complained about on these boards. I think there were some recent posts in the DTV General Discussion. After the software improvements there are many happy R15 users.

EDIT: Found a couple of links for your reference

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94707

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=99868


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

I have 2 R15's. I have had them since they were new at the beginning of 2006 (they actually came out late 2005, but anyway.) They were rocky at first, and both of mine had to be replaced. However, it has now been over a year without any major problems, and I love my DVR's.


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## jfeco (Nov 7, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> I am a Dish subscriber but have some limited (not recent) experience with the r15 and HR20. Directv currently has a great offer for new subs and my wife wants us to take the offer. No HD so I would need the R15. I have told my wife that based on my limited experience and what I read on these forums that the R-15 is just not reliable and we would wind up frustrated after our very good experience with the Dish 625. Could some of you folks who have the R15 give me your comments regarding your recent experiences with this DVR? I would certainly appreciate finding out what people currently think of it.
> 
> Thanks


I was with Dish and had the 508 PVR and loved it. Dish would not give me an upgrade to new equipment like a new customer so we went with DirectV. I hate the R15!!!! The machine need alot of the features my VERY old 508 already had. No 30 sec skip, no button to go to view live TV and you cant watch two different programs at once even those you pay the extra 5 bucks. I am get uses to some of it but its hard. I would stay with Dish until DirectV decides to invest in the R15 and values its customers.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

I really appreciate the comments I am getting.

Jfeco: I also have a 508 as well as the 625. I love them both. The 508 is such a simple box that does the basic things that need doing while the 625 also does well with its added functionality.

Directv really is running a great, great special right now but every time I reach for the phone to switch, a little voice says I'm going to be sorry because the r15 will be so disappointing to me. Its a shame because everything else about Directv is so inviting.

Today is decision day and I'm about 50/50 on whether to switch. Can't wait to see what I decide (lol).


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

There's more to consider than the hardware...

When I signed on with Dish about 9 years ago there were limited choices. The local cable company was awful. You could get a better picture with rabbit ears and outages were common.

That left Dish and DirecTV. Now, remember, this was back in the days of $800 receivers that owned and paid a small ransom for DBS in a second room.

After speaking to both Dish and DirecTV it was apparent to me that each company had a different business model at that time. DirecTV was the big dog in DBS and their position was that the customer existed for its convenience and was very demanding and not at all accommodating in any aspect of pre-sale inquiries.

Dish, on the other hand, was a small and growing company that imparted a warm and cuddly feeling during our conversations and, at least, gave me the illusion that they wanted my business. I went with Dish paying for mid-level programming on time and in full every month.

After 8 years and becoming more and more underwhelmed with Dish I called up DirecTV and was surprised to find that their attitude had apparently changed 180 degrees. While Dish didn't care less that I was leaving after 8 years, DirecTV made the switch so simple and cost effective I couldn't resist.

In the year I've been with DirecTV I've rarely had to contact them. When I did, I waited mere minutes to get through to an English speaking CSR (in the US) who either answered my question or sent me to the correct person who did.

Don't forget that DirecTV will only charge you ONE DVR fee for the entire household regardless of the number of DVRs you have activated. Dish will extort a separate DVR fee for EACH DVR in your home. I really hated that.

If you decide to go to DirecTV the R15 will be competent but it will be different than your 625. You'll get used to it.

If you stay with Dish then you know what you've got until Charlie, well Dish customers know Charlie. 

As far as your 508, it was the high point of Dish's hardware platforms. The 508 was simple, reliable, cheap, BUT had only one tuner.

Let us know what you decide.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

I hope someone will answer this specific question about the R15. If I am watching a recorded show and have to stop for some reason, what are my options when I return to finish watching it? I have read posts on here that make me think there is no "Resume" feature and I would have to fast forward through the show to find where I had left off. Surely I have misunderstood. Would someone be so kind as to explain what the options are in that situation?

Still trying to decide whether or not to switch and this could be a deal breaker because we use that feature quite a bit.

Subeluvr: Thanks for a very thoughtful response. I know you've hit the situation on the head but I still am not sure I could live with the R15. I'm trying to convince myself that I can because with the current Directv offer and the AAA discount, I can save over $500 vs. Dish over the next 2 years.

Thanks


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

While watching a recorded show hit "stop". Any time later, find the show in the list, hit "play" and you're right where you left off and can view the remainder of the program.

While watching a live show on the R15 you can "pause", grab a (insert beverage of choice here), return and hit "pause to resume watching right where you left off.

You will be watching in "delayed" or "shifted" time (behind real time) but can make that up easily by skipping through the commercials as you encounter them and recover the lost time.

In that respect, the R15 works exactly like a Dish PVR/DVR.

If you are watching a live show and then have to leave you can hit record and the balance of the show will be recorded for viewing at a later time/date.

I do it all the time... works great. In fact, the best result of moving to DirecTV is that my wife has become a power user of her bedroom R15. She would never touch the Dish 508 or 721.

When Mama is happy everyone is happy!


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Sat4me said:


> I hope someone will answer this specific question about the R15. If I am watching a recorded show and have to stop for some reason, what are my options when I return to finish watching it? I have read posts on here that make me think there is no "Resume" feature and I would have to fast forward through the show to find where I had left off. Surely I have misunderstood. Would someone be so kind as to explain what the options are in that situation?


No. Once you go back to it and select play, it will start where you left off. I think a common complaint is that there's no start over option like Dish has. To start from the beginning, resume watching it, then hold the repeat button for ~3 seconds.

I believe the R15 has come a long way, but still has many bugs. Some say they have never had serious problems, but others are still experiencing lock-ups and recordings that freeze on them among other things. As they say, your mileage may very.

EDIT: The above results may not be the same if you were watching the recording while it's still in the buffer. The buffer has been flakey lately.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

qwerty said:


> Once you go back to it and select play, it will start where you left off.


That is the answer to the question Sat4me was asking.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> That is the answer to the question Sat4me was asking.


Yes. I think it is.


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## GP245 (Aug 17, 2006)

Beside being a piece of junk...

Direct's software downloads have caused nothing but new problems.

When and if it works, the picture quality is fine.

Typical of Direct - distributing products that have not been thoroughly
tested and perfected.

The search function is a joke!


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Both my R15-500’s are close to 2 years old and are still running fine. They have never been replaced and both myself and the wife are using them with no problems.


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## jfeco (Nov 7, 2007)

qwerty said:


> I think a common complaint is that there's no start over option like Dish has.


Exactly, That is a real problem that also needs to be addressed. Some people on this board will tell you it's not a problem to be fixed but a feature directV as not added. I disagree!!!!


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## tonyc (Jun 12, 2006)

jfeco said:


> Exactly, That is a real problem that also needs to be addressed. Some people on this board will tell you it's not a problem to be fixed but a feature directV as not added. I disagree!!!!


there is going to be a option to *start over *or *resume* very, soon, it was in the last CE download so that means it well been in national release soon.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

tonyc said:


> there is going to be a option to *start over *or *resume* very, soon, it was in the last CE download so that means it well been in national release soon.


Sure enough! It's in 117B and I never noticed.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't see why it is such a pain to hold one button for a couple of seconds to start a program over. I don't know how dish does it, but I can't see it being much easier than two button pushes (play, then hold skip back).

Also, while it's true that the R15 doesn't have a 30 sec skip at this time, it does have a 30 slip that fast fowards through the commercial in about 2-3 seconds.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Also, while it's true that the R15 doesn't have a 30 sec skip at this time, it does have a 30 slip that fast fowards through the commercial in about 2-3 seconds.


Keep in mind that the latest "beta" software for the HR20 (high-def DVR) has an option to switch to a 30-sec-skip instead of a 30-sec-slip. Very nice.

Now, as for the general question - I've had DirecTV service for 8 years now, and it's really been great. I love DirecTV. They're always willing to work with me, and I've been very, very satisfied with the service.

Another DirecTV advantage over Dish is the "Cutting Edge" program hosted here at the DBSTalk forums. The "Cutting Edge" allows all of us an opportunity to participate in testing pre-release receiver software from DirecTV. Typically the HR20/HR21 receivers (HD DVR's) are the 'flagship' of the CE program; you'll see new features hit those receivers first. The R15 usually gets them after the HR20 works out the bugs.

It's a great program, and offers you the chance to really make a difference. Your feedback in the CE program really, truly does get noticed (trust me on that) and the software is designed with us in mind. A very unique program, a great opportunity for you, and as far as I'm concerned, a huge advantage for DirecTV!

To join the Cutting Edge team, just go to the Cutting Edge forum here at DBSTalk and read [thread=90847]this thread[/thread]. Also, please read this one as well ...

Thanks!

--Dennis

p.s. If you do join DirecTV, after getting to know the R15, please visit the link in my signature and fill out the R15 Wish List! It helps us shape the future of the DirecTV+ DVR platform!


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## sdicomp (Sep 12, 2006)

Although my R15 was very unreliable when I first got it around a year and a half ago, it has evolved into a pretty solid performer now. The CEs have improved it, and I have ALMOST no complaints with it anymore!


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

Thanks for your responses. I do have 2 final questions. First, I see reference to models of the R-15 such as R15-100, R15-300, R15-500. What is the difference in the models (100vs300vs500)? If I sign up for Directv can I request a specific model and if so, which one would I request. 

Last question --- Do new subscribers get new equipment or remanufactured junk?

Thank all of you for your help.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> I see reference to models of the R-15 such as R15-100, R15-300, R15-500. What is the difference in the models (100vs300vs500)?


Feature wise they are identical. The different models are manufactured by different suppliers.

IIRC...
R15-100 = RCA (Thomson) made in Mexico
R15-300 = Phillips made in Mexico
R15-500 = Humax (corrected, thanks TigersFanJJ) made in China



Sat4me said:


> If I sign up for Directv can I request a specific model and if so, which one would I request.


The model you receive will depend on what the tech has on the truck. In my case, the tech had all three versions and he allowed me to choose so I chose to get two of whatever he had two of so they'd be the same.



Sat4me said:


> Do new subscribers get new equipment or remanufactured junk?


I got new receivers.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Sat4me said:


> Thanks for your responses. I do have 2 final questions. First, I see reference to models of the R-15 such as R15-100, R15-300, R15-500. What is the difference in the models (100vs300vs500)? If I sign up for Directv can I request a specific model and if so, which one would I request.
> 
> Last question --- Do new subscribers get new equipment or remanufactured junk?
> 
> Thank all of you for your help.


Most of the time it is new receivers. Although, occasionally all the techs have are refurbs.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

R15-500 is made by Humax.

Hunan makes my food sometimes. :lol:


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> Thanks for your responses. I do have 2 final questions. First, I see reference to models of the R-15 such as R15-100, R15-300, R15-500. What is the difference in the models (100vs300vs500)? If I sign up for Directv can I request a specific model and if so, which one would I request.
> 
> Last question --- Do new subscribers get new equipment or remanufactured junk?
> 
> Thank all of you for your help.


Just my personal opinion culled from reading messages from users with the 100, 300, and 500 versions of the R15, but if the installer gives you the option, I'd take the 300. I have two of them and they seem to be built very well. They run cool and quiet. And best of all, they aren't made in China like all the other electronic junk is nowadays!!

Now, as for your last question, one of my R15-300's was brand new being manufactured only a few months before I got it. The second one I got a few months later was a recon-that's all the guy had in the truck. It was one of the first ones made...in 2005.

Guess which one works better, locks up less often, and has come to be my favorite? YUP, the old reconditioned unit!! And they both have the exact same software, too.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

Happy New Year to all of you who responded and I do appreciate you taking the time to get me educated. This morning I had pretty much decided to switch to Directv but first I called Dish just to find out what they would offer. Based on all information I could find, I was convinced that Dish would not do much for me (an existing sub) and that would clear the way for taking the great Directv offer. Well, to my total shock and surprise, Dish gave me everything I asked for with only a charge of $1. Even though the Dish offer did not totally match the Directv offer I took the Dish offer because of my reservations about the R-15.

As stated above the main reason I took the Dish offer was because I am convinced their receivers are better at this point in time, both functionally and from a reliability standpoint and I don't like things that don't work. 

The good thing is that I decided that by sticking with Dish for another year, that it would give Directv a chance to really improve their equipment and I suspect that by next Christmas I will be ready for HDTV and if Directv continues their strong thrust into that market and if they improve their receivers, I can then come to them as a new customer (get good discounts) at that time. Seems the best of both worlds. 

I must add that other than the receivers, right now Directv seems like a better service in most respects and I actually am a little disappointed that I didn't feel comfortable switching right now.

Best of luck to all of you and I will be keeping up on developments by being active on these Boards.

Thanks again.


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

jfeco said:


> I was with Dish and had the 508 PVR and loved it. Dish would not give me an upgrade to new equipment like a new customer so we went with DirectV. I hate the R15!!!! The machine need alot of the features my VERY old 508 already had. No 30 sec skip, no button to go to view live TV and you cant watch two different programs at once even those you pay the extra 5 bucks. I am get uses to some of it but its hard. I would stay with Dish until DirectV decides to invest in the R15 and values its customers.


I also was with Dish for 8 years and liked the 508 PVR and left dish because they would not give me any kind of upgrad deal. I agree with your statements up to the point of dislikeing the R15.

Since the last couple software upgrades, I've had no complaints at all with it. I left Dish and haven't looked back.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I was with Dish until two years ago. I also called to see what they would do to keep my business. The best they would do was some lame offer. Like Starz for three months free. A month later, after I switched to D*, they called back and wanted to offer a deal. The SOB actually got angry when I said it was to late and they should have talked to me when I called them!
On the plus side, I had the 510. Granted, it was less sophisticated with one tuner and no season pass equivalent. But, it was solid as a rock. I don't think it even had a reset button or reset menu option.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Sat4me,

It's hard to beat first hand experience in any arena. Since you're happy with Dish, Dish programming, and Dish hardware there is little reason to move elsewhere.

That said, remember... only the small percentage of users (of any product) are vocal and voice their unhappiness. The large majority of DirecTV and Dish users are happy and busy watching TV.

I have my own opinions of Dish, the Dish hardware, and most specifically the current Dish corporate mentality. I chose to leave Dish and you chose to stay. We're both happy.

Keep posting and let us know how things go... especially after the next Dish software downgrade :lol:


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## nhoJ (Jul 7, 2007)

Sat4me...I'm just a little curious. Would you mind sharing what Dish retention offered you in order to stay. It seemed from the scope of your earlier post that you were interested in saving some money. That doesn't seem to be what you received in the end. Maybe you were looking more for greater value for your cost rather than the bottom line of price? 

As I'm sure you are aware of, there are other variables involved in the switch of providers and they can be more significiant than the just the quality of the equipment. These would include line of sight on the new satellites, having to stare at another dish on the roof (or wherever), and the general unpredictability to the quality to the new install. It is this last one that I would guess is the most likely cause for unhappy customers, rather than the R15 not having a skip ahead button or a start over option or whatever your current favorite feature is.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I have a r15-100 for about 1 year no problems.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

SAT4ME:

Glad you are satisfied with the latest offer from DISH. I personally have never had any contact with them. And until the last 6 months, my service during the past 7 years from DirecTV has been commitment-free, so I was free to switch or even go back to cable (ugh!). Every time I got irked about something and considered switching to DISH to take them up on their new customer offer(s), DirecTV's customer service people always came through correcting the problem and "throwing the dog a bone". They really have earned their J.D. Power customer satisfaction rating.

As an example, in November I decided to order an RF remote, since the R15 now supports it. I placed my order on the web and even charged it to my new DirecTV Rewards VISA card. After a couple weeks, nothing came so I called in. For some reason, the remote didn't get shipped! I was told an expedited order would be placed and all would be OK. It wasn't. A week later, still no remote. So I called in AGAIN. Somehow, the order got screwed up AGAIN. This time, the CSR said the original order would be cancelled, the charge reversed on my credit card, and a NEW order placed. They even asked if I wanted it billed to my DirecTV account instead. I said yes and the order was placed. And for my inconvenience, I ended up with Showtime Unlimited free for 3 months!! Several days later, the remote arrived and just as promised, the charge WAS removed from the credit card.

Yes, DirecTV did goof up. But not only did they FIX it, once again they "tossed the old dog a bone"!!


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

nhoJ: They gave me the new subscriber deal. No more, no less and that is what I asked for to remain with them. The Directv deal was of much higher value but I just decided I trust the Dish DVR more than the Directv DVR right now and also I avoid the pitfalls of switching and the hassles that can go with a new installation. What pleased me is that I have this deal and in a year I can still switch to Directv and get their then current new subscriber offer and in that year I suspect the reliability of the Directv DVR will improve greatly.

One more thing that affected my decision. Directv does not provide HD locals in my area and I'm not sure they ever will because HD locals are provided in my DMA but the spotbeam is not large enough to take in my area. That is another reason for delaying Directv because within the next year I think I will be going to HD and my delay will give time for Directv to either expand the spotbeam, provide a solution for the OTA locals through the H21 or forcing me to stay with Dish to get HD locals.

I never dreamed that deciding on a tv provider could be so complicated with so many things to consider. My wife still thinks we should have changed to save the extra money but that can wait a few months, I think.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> Sat4me,
> 
> Keep posting and let us know how things go... especially after the next Dish software downgrade :lol:


Yeah, I know what you mean about the software downgrade. Seems both services manage to do that to us and thats one of the reasons I am delaying switching to Directv. The R15 seems to have suffered their share of those also.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean about the software downgrade. *Seems both services manage to do that to us* and thats one of the reasons I am delaying switching to Directv. The R15 seems to have suffered their share of those also.


I beg to differ sir... after 8 years of Dish, spending considerable amounts of money for their boxes, I rarely received a software spool that fixed anything without adding many more new problems. DirecTV is FAR ahead of Dish in that area.

In the year I've been with DirecTV they have spooled more software downloads for my R15 then Dish ever had for my 5000s, 508,s and 721s in 8 years combined and the DirecTV software upgrades were upgrades.

Every DirecTV download I received fixed problems or added features to the R15 and only the last spool has caused a new problem (the R)) problem).

Dish was glacier slow in releasing software spools and even slower at recognizing and correcting the problems their SW spools introduced. Dish may not have coined the "paying beta tester" phrase but they perfected the philosophy.

Ask any Dish old timer about the "black screen of death". We lived with that for over a year before Dish even acknowledged that the problem existed.

Right now, my two R15s are more stable and reliable than my Dish 721s ever were. They are as reliable as my buddy's two 625s and I am among the pickiest users and will scream loudly when it isn't, but DirecTV seems to listen to it's customers where Dish believes that the customer exists for their convenience and treats them exactly that way.

It is your choice go or stay with Dish, and I hope your choice proves best for you, but let's get the facts straight.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

I also beg to differ with you sir. I have been with Dish for approximately 10 years and I've never had a software update give me any significant trouble. Sure, maybe a couple of small glitches in 10 years but nothing of significance. I will take your word for your successes but read the respective threads on these Boards and see who is complaining the loudest about messed up software fixes and about DVRs that are garbage. It sure isn't the Dish folks. I can point to many posts on here where Directv users refer to the R15 as garbage. I have also seen it referred to as being good for nothing other than a boat anchor. I am very glad that yours works well for you and that my past experiences with Dish have also been positive. I hope we both have the coninued good luck. I do believe that Directv is making significant progress in getting their DVRs to work as they should but they have a long way to go to get them as reliable as the Dish DVRs and don't even get started on which DVRs have the best features. That one is a slam dunk for Dish.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> Read the respective threads on these Boards and see who is complaining the loudest about messed up software fixes and about DVRs that are garbage. It sure isn't the Dish folks.


With respect, in my experience, there is equal complaining about the hardware of both Dish and DirecTV on the forums. Could be that some of the Dish complainers have moved to DirecTV and are watching TV. Could be that some Dish complainers have given up complaining. Could be a number of other reasons.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying that DirecTV is perfect but scoring customer satisfaction of hardware by asking which company's DVR is better on a forum populated mainly by power users who do notice each and every shortcoming is hardly representative of the broad view. If the R15 was the garbage some say then I would suspect that there'd be more coverage about that in mainstream channels and their customer count would drop like a stone.

Many people on this forum, in the DirecTV sub forums, are very vocal about the hardware. Guess why? It's because DirecTV listens to them and makes a timely effort to resolve the problems. We're not just part of the problem. We're part of the solution.

The "CE" program here has proved very valuable for both DirecTV and it's users.



Sat4me said:


> I have been with Dish for approximately 10 years and I've never had a software update give me any significant trouble. Sure, maybe a couple of small glitches in 10 years but nothing of significance.


In 10 years you would have experienced the "black screen of death" if you had a 4000/5000 and a protracted period of spontaneous reboots among other "small glitches" like lockups, noisy fans, and hard drive crashes.

I'll ask you to to me a favor... tune your 625 to an evening network show on CBS any evening and watch the screen carefully. Does the screen seem to get dimmer and then brighter again when you watch carefully? Doesn't change quickly but if you watch carefully you may see it. Sorta like a quick volume dropout on an audio recording.

It's particularly easy to see, if it does, when watching Letterman.

Since you are a discriminating user I'd appreciate knowing what you see.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> They really have earned their J.D. Power customer satisfaction rating.


OK.

DirecTV has the highest rating among Cable/Sat companies (with a national average score of 677), but that doesn't mean they provide good customer service, in only means they aren't as bad as the other companies in the survey.

JD Power's methodology does not allow comparison of ratings from one industry to another. But the American Customer Satisfaction Index conducted by the University of Michigan does allow comparison across industries.

In the ACSI ratings, DirecTV again ranks highest among cable/sat companies. But even with it's highest rating, with a score of 67. This is pretty low compared to other service providers such as the IRS (65), Ramada (69), Kmart (70), Verizon Wireless (71), US Post Office (73), Marriott (79), Duke Energy (79), or Kohls (80).

Not sucking as much as other cable companies is hardly something to brag about.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Not sucking as much as other cable companies is hardly something to brag about.


A profound statement and true.

Sometimes, in today's marketplace, it seems that it's a matter of... _are we that good or are the others so bad_?

It's a sad state in a society when to excel is to be merely competent.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Not sucking as much as other cable companies is hardly something to brag about.


:lol: :lol: :lol: 
I love that!

Anyone know how to submit a quote to Bartlett's?


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## nhoJ (Jul 7, 2007)

DirecTV Customer Service ... We Suck the Least !

Actually I've never had a problem with CS. Just making fun.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> I also beg to differ with you sir. I have been with Dish for approximately 10 years and I've never had a software update give me any significant trouble. Sure, maybe a couple of small glitches in 10 years but nothing of significance. I will take your word for your successes but read the respective threads on these Boards and see who is complaining the loudest about messed up software fixes and about DVRs that are garbage. It sure isn't the Dish folks. I can point to many posts on here where Directv users refer to the R15 as garbage. I have also seen it referred to as being good for nothing other than a boat anchor. I am very glad that yours works well for you and that my past experiences with Dish have also been positive. I hope we both have the coninued good luck. I do believe that Directv is making significant progress in getting their DVRs to work as they should but they have a long way to go to get them as reliable as the Dish DVRs and don't even get started on which DVRs have the best features. That one is a slam dunk for Dish.


I also have to agree with you. Although I left Dish for DTV because of HORRIBLE customer service from non-native speakers, I loved my DVRs. I never had the black screen of death (don't even know what that is a reference to). The DVR features were so much more intuitive and user friendly. They made sense and there was no feature lacking that I wanted.

My R15's also have had no problems, but the box reacts so slowly to commands, the features are not intuitive and many of my favorite features from the Dish DVR do not even exist. The auto correct on FF and REW is one example. It has just come to the R15 - while I always had it on my Dish DVR. And my REW auto correct does not work.

Anyway - everyone's experience is different and everyone chooses their provider for different reasons.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

Subeluvr: First, I want to assure you that I am not one of the people who try to bad mouth Directv because I have Dish. I have a very high regard for Directv and I went into this research of whether I should switch with the attitude to be open minded but I really wanted to switch because it meant saving over $500 during the next 2 years and it offered the opportunity for new hardware from top to bottom. However, everywhere I looked, there was a high percentage of DIRECTV folks who really have no use for the R15. I'm estimating that at least 1/3 of the people think it is a poor product at best. This seemed worse than what I saw from the Dish folks (just my impression). I am talking about people on these Boards as well as people I know who have the R15. In fact, I could not find anyone locally who said anything nice about the R15. Thats only about 5 people but none of them would recommend it. My next door neighbor was considering switching to Dish because of the R15 and he instead went to HD and got the HR20. He loves that and says it is a way better product than the R15. If I had been ready to move to HD, I would have made the switch to Directv in a second (if they provided locals in my area) but alas they choose to not expand the spotbeam to include all of my DMA and that in and of itself will keep me from ever switching unless they change before I am ready for HD (probably next Christmas).

Continuing with my research story, after evaluating what I found out about the reputation of the R15, I had to look at my own experience with Dish and in 10 years I have ABSOLUTELY NOT experienced the things you put in your post. I have NOT had lockups, noisy fans, black death screens (whatever that is) or continued reboots, etc. In 10 years, I have had to unplug a receiver to solve a problem maybe 2 times per year on average and doing that always solved my problems. I consider that to be a great record for the DISH equipment.

I do not have a 625. I have a 508 and I absolutely love it. Couldn't ask for a better piece of equipment. I am keeping it and replacing an old 3900 with the 625. That is the upgrade I am getting for free from Dish. When I get it installed next Monday, I will do the test you suggested and let you know what I see.

Regarding Customer Service, I couldn't be happier with the reps I talked to at Directv while trying to make this decision. They were great and very responsive to my questions. Unfortunately, they could not answer the question about whether I would ever get HD locals and that had a small bearing on my decision to stay with Dish because they do provide my HD locals.

I do appreciate the information you and others provided to me and I look forward to interacting with you in the future. I will remain active on the Directv threads because I will face this decision again when I make the switch to HD providing Directv offers my HD locals.



subeluvr said:


> With respect, in my experience, there is equal complaining about the hardware of both Dish and DirecTV on the forums. Could be that some of the Dish complainers have moved to DirecTV and are watching TV. Could be that some Dish complainers have given up complaining. Could be a number of other reasons.
> 
> Make no mistake, I'm not saying that DirecTV is perfect but scoring customer satisfaction of hardware by asking which company's DVR is better on a forum populated mainly by power users who do notice each and every shortcoming is hardly representative of the broad view. If the R15 was the garbage some say then I would suspect that there'd be more coverage about that in mainstream channels and their customer count would drop like a stone.
> 
> ...


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Sat4me said:


> I do not have a 625.


You stated in your original post "_after our very good experience with the Dish 625_" and that was what I based my comments on.

I attributed your satisfaction with your 625 to your actual use and experience over some period of time with that Dish receiver and that you anticipated disappointment with the R15 based on anecdotal information.

The 508 is an apple in a comparison of oranges and is widely recognized as a solid one tuner platform.

Now, based on your last post, it appears that I was in error and you were comparing two receivers that you never actually used in your home over any length of time... am I correct?

As I said before, if you have a satisfactory experience with one company then there's no good reason to switch.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Sat4me said:


> Subeluvr: First, I want to assure you that I am not one of the people who try to bad mouth Directv because I have Dish. I have a very high regard for Directv and I went into this research of whether I should switch with the attitude to be open minded but I really wanted to switch because it meant saving over $500 during the next 2 years and it offered the opportunity for new hardware from top to bottom. However, everywhere I looked, there was a high percentage of DIRECTV folks who really have no use for the R15. I'm estimating that at least 1/3 of the people think it is a poor product at best. This seemed worse than what I saw from the Dish folks (just my impression). I am talking about people on these Boards as well as people I know who have the R15. In fact, I could not find anyone locally who said anything nice about the R15. Thats only about 5 people but none of them would recommend it. My next door neighbor was considering switching to Dish because of the R15 and he instead went to HD and got the HR20. He loves that and says it is a way better product than the R15. If I had been ready to move to HD, I would have made the switch to Directv in a second (if they provided locals in my area) but alas they choose to not expand the spotbeam to include all of my DMA and that in and of itself will keep me from ever switching unless they change before I am ready for HD (probably next Christmas).
> 
> Continuing with my research story, after evaluating what I found out about the reputation of the R15, I had to look at my own experience with Dish and in 10 years I have ABSOLUTELY NOT experienced the things you put in your post. I have NOT had lockups, noisy fans, black death screens (whatever that is) or continued reboots, etc. In 10 years, I have had to unplug a receiver to solve a problem maybe 2 times per year on average and doing that always solved my problems. I consider that to be a great record for the DISH equipment.
> 
> ...


Chances are your HD locals will be added with the launch of D11(2008).The R15(DirecTV's first in house DVR has come a long way thanks to the CE program and will continue to do so).Actually the R15 is an NDS product.

Tivo thinks Dish DVRs work good too,unfortunately one reason why is Dish has been found that their DVRs operation infringes on Tivo's patents.Will this change the way Dish's DVRs operate?,you would think so.While DirecTV still has an agreement with Tivo plus they just bought Replay.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

Subeluvr: My error and my apology. I must have been drinking when I wrote the original post. I've been noted to do that before sitting down at this PC (lol). We do have some limited experience with the 625 because we have used one at my brother-in-law's house at the beach. We've used that box on several different occasions and I should have explained that. However, in my original post, I meant to point out the excellent luck we've had with the 508 and I misstated by writing 625. Didn't mean to mislead anyone, I'm just getting old and demented. I have now at least edited the original post to say 508. Thanks for pointing that out. I have not used the 625 long enough to be sure it is a reliable receiver but we didn't have any problems with our limited use.


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## nhoJ (Jul 7, 2007)

If you all think the R15 is bad...I just spent some time at friends houses who have cable (friends don't let friends have cable) DVR. One was a Motorola and the other a Scientific Atlanta. They were TERRIBLE !!!! Hit pause and wait 3 seconds before the TV would pause. Only 1 week of Guide. No organization of recorded shows...no folders, just a long list of everything that was recorded. Terrible delay in every other button pushed. Complicated interface. Only 40 hours of SD recording space. There was more that I can't remember and I'm sure if I started to dig deeper I would find even more things wrong. I just got so annoyed that couldn't stand it. And to think they pay more for the service and equipment than I do.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> A profound statement and true.
> 
> Sometimes, in today's marketplace, it seems that it's a matter of... _are we that good or are the others so bad_?
> 
> It's a sad state in a society when to excel is to be merely competent.


Well, if that is all true about J.D. Powers and their ratings, I'm glad I'm with DirecTV even if it's high rating really means it "doesn't suck as much as the other DBS/cable folks"!!!


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Thomas -- unless you have WOW! available, which was the highest of regional companies and 12% higher than DirecTV in the North Central (IL, IN, OH, MI, WI)


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Thomas -- unless you have WOW! available, which was the highest of regional companies and 12% higher than DirecTV in the North Central (IL, IN, OH, MI, WI)


What the heck is "WOW!"?? I've never heard about it. 

All I have around here is DISH Network, DirecTV, and BOW-WOW (Time-Warner Cable).


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

nhoJ said:


> If you all think the R15 is bad...I just spent some time at friends houses who have cable (friends don't let friends have cable) DVR. One was a Motorola and the other a Scientific Atlanta. They were TERRIBLE !!!! Hit pause and wait 3 seconds before the TV would pause. Only 1 week of Guide. No organization of recorded shows...no folders, just a long list of everything that was recorded. Terrible delay in every other button pushed. Complicated interface. Only 40 hours of SD recording space. There was more that I can't remember and I'm sure if I started to dig deeper I would find even more things wrong. I just got so annoyed that couldn't stand it. And to think they pay more for the service and equipment than I do.


Gee, that description sounds just like my DirecTiVo's, which seem to be the High Exalted DVR around here.

No folders, delays, 40 hours of SD space... yep, defines my DTiVo's to a tea. Of course, folders were added later on in the Series2 receivers, but I have a GXCEBOT that lives on, and it does not (nor will it ever) have folders. And before you say "what delays?" - just go ahead and rearrange the season pass priorities!


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Just received the latest Consumer Reports, which rates television providers (as part of their ratings of Internet, TV, Phone providers).

Their ratings seem to be consistent with JD Powers and ACSI:

Verizon Fios (not rated by JD Powers or ACSI): 84
WOW: 76
DirecTV: 74
Dish: 70
A whole bunch of cable companies: 69-58

Score differences of 4 points or less are not statistically meaningful.


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