# SWM Troubleshooting Tips and guidelines



## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

*SWM Troubleshooting guidelines:*

*Current SWM compatible receivers:*

HR23-700
HR20-700 
HR20-100
HR21-700
HR21-200
HR21-100
H20-100
H20-600
H21-100 
H21-200
H23-600
R22-100
R22-200
D12's

*Troubleshooting Guidelines:*

*---- Log satellite transponders/strength signal readings
*---- Log SWM signal strength
*---- Check & verify that "all BBC's" are removed from all SWM receivers
*---- Check & Verify on the power inserter (PI) that the green LED is on through vent slot.
*---- Check & Verify SWM signal strength.
*---- Check & verify that all connections are tight
*---- Check & verify on the PI that red FTM output goes to the SWM
*---- Check & verify that coax distance don't exceed 60' from the dish to the SWM
*---- Check & verify that the min distance for the coax for the pi is no shorter than 15'
*---- Check & verify that the splitters pass power on only one leg, If using splitters and more than one SWM
*---- Check & verify if only SWM port is used, the 2nd SWM port has a terminator cap installed

*Tips*

*---- "Warning" The _"Red FTM output"_ must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!
*---- "Warning" the PI (power supply) must be inside for it is NOT weather resistant. 
*---- The SWM can be place inside or outside
*---- The maximum coax length coming off the SWM to each receiver is a max of 100"
*---- When only (1) SWM port. There must have the terminator cap installed or a 15' piece of coax
*---- Use good quality compression connectors

*Advance Troubleshooting Methods*

**NOTE** we will add more symptoms, and match tips worked to the problems later on

*Is the Receiver or the SWM at Fault?*

_Symptoms_

When boots it went to searching for signal on step 2 of 2 and just stayed there until it timed out. (All other SWM receivers are working.)
Advance trouble shooting Tips:
1.	Enter the setup menu and check all signal strengths for each Sat tuner and SWM tuner. If this shows random transponders scattered around Sats 101, 110 and 119 with signal on tuner 1, but doesn't show any SWM tuners, the SWM should be considered as working at this point.
2.	Perform a menu reset or RBR (red button reset), to verify if any of the same results reoccurs.
3.	If (2) doesn't resolve the problem, perform a hard power-off. Turn off the unit and pull the power cord for a minimum of 10 minutes. (No results? Proceed to step 4)
4.	Make sure all receivers are unplugged including the SWM. Switch the HR20 line to the SWM-2 port on the SWM. Re-plug the pi for the SWM and wait a few minutes. Then one-by-one power up each receiver allowing boot-up time. (No results? Proceed to step 5)
5.	Perform a "reset everything". (no results? Proceed to step 6)
If 1-5 has not provided any favorable results. Time for more drastic measures to be taken in the next following Tips:
6.	Grounding is very touchy issue to find and fix. This is sometimes just easier to re-install a new ground wire to the SWM (Must meet your local electrical code enforcements). Then perform another RBR. (no results? Proceed to step 6)
7.	Existing RG-6 coax (or RG59) could be pinched somewhere between the SWM module and receivers'. If using any splitters, remove all and run all new coax with new quality compression fittings to rule out that possibility of bad cables, compression connectors, and splitters. Then follow the proper procedure in step (4) to fire everything back up. (No results? Proceed to step 8)
8.	Perform another reset everything to redo satellite setup. Now if there is still no favorable results with it being connected on SWM-1 & SWM -2 ports. Switch to the Legacy ports, to see if it works. Leave the H21 or H20-100 on the SWM-1 port. If the HR20 now works on the Legacy port as well as the H21 or H20-100 still works on the SWM. (Please follow the conclusion)

From all the troubleshooting steps listed above, the HR-20 is more than likely at fault and will need to be replaced. Out of these steps (1-8) the H21 is working on the SWM-1 (2); therefore, the SWM should be considered ok.

*Is the SWM or the Receiver at Fault*

coming next


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

For some time the SWM-5 & the SWM-8 have been out for field trials and now are showing up in normal installs. We all saw and admired the installation photo's that many great CE'ers produced, taking large amounts of time so we all can learn.

I would like to take this one step further, providing trouble shooting tips for the SWM's. In the post above, I will continue to list the awesome tips that we come up with. I've started with just a few basic ones that i can think of. What kind of more advance trouble shooting can we put together?


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## RLytle424 (Jul 28, 2007)

When will the SWM be available to the regular customers of Directv?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

RLytle424 said:


> When will the SWM be available to the regular customers of Directv?


Later this year. Some are reporting that SWM5's were included in install this month! But no further word on sales to existing customers.


gulfwarvet said:


> SWM Troubleshooting Tips and guidelines


I would say to add that they do not want their BBC's connected to a receiver using SWM1 or SWM2 ports.

I have forgotten that before.

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

*OVERVIEW:*
Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM) technology allows you to distribute satellite and Over The Air (OTA) antenna signals on a single cable. Currently the only SWM Receivers are:

D12 Standard Definition Receiver - Single Tuner
H20 / H21 HD Receivers - Single Tuner
HR20 DIRECTV PLUS HD DVR - Dual Tuner

+ Older "Legacy" Receiver Tuners must be connected individually to the Legacy ports. 
+ The SWM5 can serve up to 5 SWM _tuners_ plus 2 Legacy _tuners_. For example, it might serve (2) HR20's, (1) H20's, and (1) TiVo.
+ The SWM8 can serve up to 8 SWM _tuners _plus 3 Legacy _tuners_. For example, it might serve (3) HR20's, (2) H20's, (1) TiVo, and 1 older receiver. 
+ "SWM" is now used instead of "FTM". Older units may have a label of FTM instead of SWM but they mean the same thing.

*Warning 1: The minimum 15' cable length from Power Supply to SWM.*
*Warning 2: The Power Suppliy's Red SWM (FTM) output must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*
*Warning 3: Only an experienced installer should install a SWM. DIRECTV may install at no cost.*

*STEPS:*
1. Log satellite transponder and OTA signal strength.
2. Power down and unplug all Satellite Receivers.
3. Connect (4) Dish AT-9 (or AU-9) RG6 to SWM satellite inputs (max 40'). Flex 1 & 2 are for other satellite dishes.
4. SWM8 Optional: connect Antenna to SWM8 OTA input.
. . SWM5 Optional: connect Antenna to the Combiner Diplexer Ant input.
5. Connect SWM receiver SWM input to the power inserter white IRD connector, or to line from splitter. (Optional: Connect SWM Receiver's SWM Input to Diplexer Sat Out.)
6. Optional: Connect Diplexer Ant to the receiver's OTA.
7. Optional: Connect Diplexer Sat to the receiver's SWM/FTM input.
8. Optional: Connect Diplexer Combined Input to Power Supply White IRD connector.
9. Optional: Connect SWM Legacy outputs to up to (3) legacy tuners, 2 for SWM5.
10. Remove previously used BBC's from receivers and put back in box. DO NOT USE BBC's.
11. Connect Power Supply white IRD to SWM Receiver SWM1 input (or optionals splitter or diplexer). 
12. Plug in SWM8 Power Supply (optional: into same UPS/surge for HR20.)
13. Verify green LED through vent slot. Wait 5 minute.
14. Power up legacy receivers one at a time allowing full boot and verify transponder signal strengths.
15. Plug in receivers. They should begin rebooting automatically.
16. Check the satellite signal strengths on each satellite receiver. Check FTM signal strength on SWM receivers.
17. Check signal strengths on OTA channels (if you are using Over The Air inputs).
18. As always, make sure all connections are tight, avoid splitters and diplexers if possible, and always follow grounding instructions.

*SWM5 Sample Wiring Diagram*









*SWM8 Sample Wiring Diagram*









If you want to design your own, the excel files used to make these diagram are here:
SWM5 Wiring Diagram.xls 
SWM8 Wiring Diagram.xls

- Craig

_Thank you to Carl6, Coffey77, Earl, Doug, Houskamp, Tom, & SV for your suggestions & proofreading._


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

SWM to dish will work with slightly longer coax, if it's good coax. I'm having to run just over 60' of cable between my SWM and dish. D* has give their "OK" for this and it is working well.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Change "pi must be put in correctly or it will damage HR-20" to "pi must be wired correctly or it will damage ALL FTM recievers" or something like that...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The voice of experience talking. :lol:


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> SWM to dish will work with slightly longer coax, if it's good coax. I'm having to run just over 60' of cable between my SWM and dish. D* has give their "OK" for this and it is working well.


Mine are also about 55 to 60 from dish to SWM and I have not had a problem at all.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Change "pi must be put in correctly or it will damage HR-20" to "pi must be wired correctly or it will damage ALL FTM recievers" or something like that...


I changed the text to read:

*Warning 2: The Red FTM output must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*

How's that?

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> SWM to dish will work with slightly longer coax, if it's good coax. I'm having to run just over 60' of cable between my SWM and dish. D* has give their "OK" for this and it is working well.


I am at 60' as well without problems. But like you that is very good, new cable with new connectors.

The SWM materials state Maximum of 40' so I wrote it that way.

- Craig


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> I am at 60' as well without problems. But like you that is very good, new cable with new connectors.
> 
> The SWM materials state Maximum of 40' so I wrote it that way.
> 
> - Craig


I'm not sure how/where to post that it will work outside of the recommended lengths.
The 15' minimum for the PI to SWM has worked with only 6'.
The 40' maximum to the dish works at 60'.
I know why D* posts it and that "we" should follow it, but shouldn't we also post the variations that have worked also?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> I changed the text to read:
> 
> *Warning 2: The Red FTM output must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*
> 
> ...


perfect...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> I changed the text to read:
> 
> *Warning 2: The Red FTM output must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*
> 
> ...


Shouldn't it be?:

*Warning 2: The Red SWM output on the power inserter (PI) must go to the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Shouldn't it be?:
> 
> *Warning 2: The Red SWM output on the power inserter (PI) must go to the Red FTM 1  on the SWM or it can destroy all receivers!*


Since what they are trying to do is have the red to red be connected.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hmm...maybe red isn't a good color. Especially if you get a color blind installer.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

ok guys i believe were off to a good start. i updated post #1 with the tips. keep them coming.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

My number 1 tip - Quality Compression Coax Connectors.

It seems like only yesterday....


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## daniellee (Jun 15, 2006)

I would add...

*---- If using splitters and more than one SWM, Check & verify that the splitters pass power on only one leg


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

ok, could we also include symptoms that might best match with the "check and verify list"..

so i'll go first.
every other transponder is working, and the HR20 was doing a searching for signal.

from my own experience, i had this happen when the ground wire wasn't connected.

what else could we match it up on the check & verify list, with different symptoms? i will continue to add these as we progress.

thanks
James


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

bump


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

gulfwarvet said:


> bump


Since mine is works without any problems, it's hard to come up with troubleshooting steps.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Since mine is works without any problems, it's hard to come up with troubleshooting steps.


thats fine and understandable. but if you can think of in any in "theory" that would help as well.

Thanks
James


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Since mine is works without any problems, it's hard to come up with troubleshooting steps.


Since VOS couldn't come up with anything I guess I can cover for him...I have enough steps for the two of us.

First of all the problem. My Hr-20 won't recognize the SWM5. I connected it all up per the directions and when I booted the HR-20 it went to searching for signal on step 2 of 2 and just stayed there until it timed out. Now for the steps I took to troubleshoot.

1) I went into the setup menu and checked signal strength. This showed 10 random transponders scattered around sats 101, 110 and 119 with signal on tuner 1. It did not show FTM tuners. This told me that the SWM was working because it was sending several transponders down the line but the HR-20 just didn't know what to do with it.

2) I did a menu reset and when it got to step 2 of 2 I got the same indication as before.

3) I did a RBR to the same result.

4) I did a menu reset and pulled the plug for 10 minutes with the same result.

5) I ran a completely new set of cables from the SWM to the PI to the HR-20 and got the same result.

6) I connected the HR-20 to FTM2 on the SWM leaving the PI on FTM1 as required and got the same result.

7) I received an H-21 so I connected it to the SWM and connected the HR-20 to the legacy ports. The HR-20 worked fine on the legacy ports. The H-21 worked as expected on FTM1. Thereby proving that the SWM was functioning.

8) I connected the HR-20 back onto FTM1 using a splitter to support the H-21 at the same time. The H-21 still worked as expected and the HR-20 still gave the same result.

9) I ran a ground wire to the SWM and did another menu reset on the HR-20 to the same result.

10) I did a menu reset and pulled the plug for 10 minutes to the same result. This included pulling the plug on the PI. The PI was repowered first then the HR-20.

11) I unplugged my eSATA drive and did a menu reset to the same result.

12) I did a reset all while running on the internal drive and got the same result.

13) I reconnected the eSATA and did a menu reset to the same result.

In the end I reconnected the HR-20 to the legacy ports and left the H-21 on FTM1. The H-21 worked flawlessly throughout steps 7-13 above which included the loss of power to the PI. The H-21 never needed to be rebooted even with the splitter being added and the PI being unplugged and plugged back in.

From all this troubleshooting I came to the conclusion that the HR-20 is at fault and will need to be replaced. Of course the only evidence that the SWM is ok is the H-21 working. There may still be an issue with the SWM not recognizing the dual tuner DVR. So basically there are two options left to test. Replace the SWM then HR-20 if a new SWM doesn't work.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Now that the SWM has started to be available, I feel a Tips and guidelines thread should be where it can be most beneficial to the general user.

Good job everyone,
Tom


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## John4924 (Mar 19, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> *Sample 8 Channel Single Wire Multiswitch Installation*
> 
> 1. Log satellite transponder and OTA signal strength.
> 2. Power down and unplug all Satellite Receivers.
> ...


Thanks to all of you guys for this info. I am a customer that will buy an SWM when they are available to the general public. I have a few comments/questions:

1. In your diagram, the label is "F*M*T1" & "F*M*T2" ?? Is it FTM or FMT??  
2. What are the conditions where I would need a power inserter (PI)?
3. Am I reading this correctly in that the SWM8 has only 2 FTM outputs? I have 3 HR20s so I would not have enough outputs for these 3?? If this is the case, then I may as well run the extra cable that I have been putting off running, and nix purchasing the SWM!

Again, thanks to you all for putting this together. 

Cheers,
John


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

John4924 said:


> Thanks to all of you guys for this info. I am a customer that will buy an SWM when they are available to the general public. I have a few comments/questions:
> 
> 1. In your diagram, the label is "F*M*T1" & "F*M*T2" ?? Is it FTM or FMT??
> 2. What are the conditions where I would need a power inserter (PI)?
> ...


1) It is suppose to be FTM1 and FTM2.

2) You always have to run a 15+ feet piece of cable from FTM1 and then a line to a receiver.

3) On the SWM5 you have 5 channels (5 tuners) and the SWM8 you have 8 channels (8 tuners). What you do is use splitters. Either after the PI which needs to be dual power passing or from the FTM2 output.

So you could get a SWM8 and run FTM1 to the PI and then from the PI to HR20 #1.
Then run a piece of cable out of FTM2 (does not matter how long) to a splitter and then from one side of the splitter to HR20 #2 and the other side to HR20 #3.

At that point you will be using 6 channels and have 2 left to add.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

To clarify a bit more on the power inserter - you must always use the pi, it is not optional.

The "typical" installation that is envisioned is the SWM itself outside near the dish. Four coax from dish to SWM. Then one cable from SWM into garage where the PI is installed. Then one cable from PI that is split as needed to feed receivers and dvr's.

The second FTM port is basically there so you can run a second line in a different direction if the situation calls for that.

Carl


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## John4924 (Mar 19, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> 1) It is suppose to be FTM1 and FTM2.
> 
> 2) You always have to run a 15+ feet piece of cable from FTM1 and then a line to a receiver.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the answers, Mike, but I am still not clear on a couple of things:

Do I NEED a PI for any installation? Or is this something that is required based on various installation configurations?

Also, if a PI is needed, can you guys recommend WHAT to buy and WHERE to buy it from? This also goes for the splitters/diplexers that you show. I know this will save me much time and frustration knowing exactly what to purchase.

Thanks again for the help!

Cheers,
John


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The power inserter (PI) is included with the SWM.

Any high frequency (2100 or 2500 or higher) splitter will work. TV only splitters (950 MHz) won't work.

Carl


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

To add: you can only use three splitters on a port. If you need more, you'll need to use the other port.
Splitters on the outputs may only need to work up to 1450 MHz. I'm using a splitter rated over 1 GHz, [but not sure how much more] from CATV, that works fine.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> To add: you can only use three splitters on a port. If you need more, you'll need to use the other port.
> Splitters on the outputs may only need to work up to 1450 MHz. I'm using a splitter rated over 1 GHz, [but not sure how much more] from CATV, that works fine.


got mine split 8 ways.. 1x2 into two 1x4 working fine


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

John4924 said:


> Thanks for the answers, Mike, but I am still not clear on a couple of things:
> 
> Do I NEED a PI for any installation? Or is this something that is required based on various installation configurations?
> 
> ...


The SWM is a two piece item, and the PI is somewhat like a power cord with a wall transformer, but different, and they come together in the same box.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> got mine split 8 ways.. 1x2 into two 1x4 working fine


Like many of things, D* recommends only three, but as you seem to prove, can be done more times.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Like many of things, D* recommends only three, but as you seem to prove, can be done more times.


VOS if you only used 3 way splitters then how would you hook up 8 H20/1's or D12's. You would need either a 8 way or two 4 ways.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> VOS if you only used 3 way splitters then how would you hook up 8 H20/1's or D12's. You would need either a 8 way or two 4 ways.


A four-way on each output should have better power on each leg than two-ways cascaded.
I think it's the old: 
power =100% so /2 = 50% /2 = 25% /2 = 12.5% 
Now how many times farther do you want to go?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> A four-way on each output should have better power on each leg than two-ways cascaded.
> I think it's the old:
> power =100% so /2 = 50% /2 = 25% /2 = 12.5%
> Now how many times farther do you want to go?


Sorry I misread it. I thought they were talking about a 3 way splitter. I did not see the using one side of a 2 way to run to another 2 way.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Most users wouldn't understand how to balance the output, which may be why D* "limits" to three splitters so everything will work.
As I'm sure you know, if not balanced, one receiver could get 50% and another might get less than 12.5% if not connected correctly.


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## EricRobins (Feb 9, 2005)

Forgive me if this has already been covered......

My current system: 

Slimline, w/ all 4 lines running into basement into 6x8 MS. Four of the lines run upstairs to 2 HR20s (in the same cabinet), a fifth line runs to the bedroom (2nd floor) feeding an HR10 (I dont want to have to run a new line, so I am just using the one tuner).

I would like to replace the HR10 w/ a third HR20, but am unsure how to go about it. 

If, because of the Protection Plan, D* elects to replace the HR10, will they give me an HR20? If so, how do I make sure that I get the SWM so that I dont have to run a new line? Isnt it true that the HR20 will NOT work w/ just one line?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

EricRobins said:


> Forgive me if this has already been covered......
> 
> My current system:
> 
> ...


If you have the Protection Plan and if you have a problem with your HR10-250 DIRECTV will replace it with a refurbished HR20.

The HR20 will work with only one SAT line just like your HR10-250 is now. As far as the SWM goes all I have heard is the SWM5 is starting to roll out in a few area's. I am not sure if it is true or not. You would have to talk to DIRECTV to see when you are able to get one. Also you would need the SWM8 since you will have 3 HR20's unless you want to use a SWM5 and your WB68 in a parallel setup.


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## VegasDen (Jul 12, 2007)

I just contacted D*. After having to explain what the SWM was, I got a CSR that "researched" and eventually told me that he sees there is "some" availability "in the East". He wouldn't get specific as to where exactly. He found no information regarding an National roll-out and recommended "I call back later."


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I spoke with two Mastec installers at my house today, and only one of them knew what an SWM was, and he said they are not expecting it before the end of the year.



VegasDen said:


> I just contacted D*. After having to explain what the SWM was, I got a CSR that "researched" and eventually told me that he sees there is "some" availability "in the East". He wouldn't get specific as to where exactly. He found no information regarding an National roll-out and recommended "I call back later."


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

gulfwarvet said:


> ok, could we also include symptoms that might best match with the "check and verify list"..


Condense this as you wish.
This is detailed for educational purposes.

I got the SWM-8 a few months ago and have been using it with:
1 hr20-700 receiver on SWM port #1.
1 old tivo receiver on two legacy ports.
1 old sony receiver on one legacy port.

I received a HR20-100 a couple weeks ago to replace the old sony.

With the professional installer here:
We deactived the sony receiver (downstairs) and removed it.
Then swapped the sony's coax from legacy port to swm port #2.
Then connected the new hr20-100 to that existing RG59 coax.
Then activated the hr20-100 and downloaded new software.
Everything was working properly.

After the professional installer left:
Moved tivo downstairs.
Moved hr20-100 upstairs.
Swapped coax connectors on the SWM appropriately.

Everything worked good for an hour, so i went to bed while parents continued to watch tv upstairs with the hr20-100.

*BUT THEN* the hr20-100 began going through an endless series of short quick bursts of "searching for sat signal" message on tv (even though channel's picture was still coming in fine) *AND ALSO* the picture/sound began randomly changing to channel 100 (even though the "info" was still displaying the proper info for channel 276 that they were previously watching). Pressing "channel up" button would take me to channel 277 (not channel 101) to prove receiver really thought it was still tuned to 276.

After a couple hours of these 2 different issues, parents woke me up to complain.

I inspected the coax lines to discover the cable I connected to the hr20-100 was actually about 200 feet long reeled up under the couch!!

Fortunately the other coax that used to be running the old tivo in that location was only 100 feet, so I switched to that other coax and both problems disappeared.

I left it hooked up that way for 2 days to MAKE SURE it was the 200 foot cable length which caused the problems ... and sure enough ... that was infact the case as the 100 foot cable solved both problems.

Quick Summary:
2 signs that you might be using too long a coax are as follows...

Quick 5 to 10 second bursts of "searching for sat signal" message maybe twice a minute.
Picture and sound suddenly changing to a different channel even though channel info still believes it's tuned to original channel.


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## Bofurley (Oct 11, 2006)

I am scheduled for the install of HR20, what are my chances of receiving a SWM Receiver?
I was actually scheduled for a 17th install, but at the last minute was notified they were out of stock!
Thanks,
bofurley


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The HR20 actually is an an "SWM receiver" - however I don't think that is what you meant. What are your chances of getting an SWM? Probably nill. There have supposedly been a very few that have gone to regular installs someplace, but we have seen no evidence of them being generally available yet.

Carl


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## phlevin (Apr 3, 2007)

Great thread, but one question(s). Can the SWM's be outside near the dish? Did any of the testers have the units outside through extremes of weather? Problems? Trying to plan out my layout and outside gives the most reasonable cable runs. Thanks


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

phlevin said:


> Great thread, but one question(s). Can the SWM's be outside near the dish? Did any of the testers have the units outside through extremes of weather? Problems? Trying to plan out my layout and outside gives the most reasonable cable runs. Thanks


The SWM can be outside but the PI (power supply) needs to be inside. It can be right by one of the receiver's.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> but the PI (power supply) needs to be inside.


BMore, i added this as a warning in the tips section.

Thanks
James


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

Bump (reason just updated more information)


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## TAnsley (Sep 21, 2006)

So, would the attached configuration be accurate? Could I put all 5 tuners off of a single port.

(Note...PI removed for clarity)

Thanks


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

AustinA6 said:


> So, would the attached configuration be accurate? Could I put all 5 tuners off of a single port.
> 
> (Note...PI removed for clarity)
> 
> Thanks


It looks to me like it "should work".


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Having just upgraded with an ebay'd SWM5 and having a congenital problem reading directions from start to finish beforehand (I'm not alone in that), a couple of suggestions:

A. If you get almost no sat signal after an upgrade install, it is almost certainly because you didn't unplug the receiver first. Do that now.

B. The power thing above is confusing as written, probably because the term "SWM" is used as an adjective where it can be confused with a noun in sentences like 


> 5. Connect SWM receiver SWM input to the power inserter white IRD connector, or to line from splitter.


To me, absent having read the WARNING, this sounds a LOT like "hook the *********** output to the SWM", which is exactly wrong.

Somewhere early the directions should say: 2 1/2. Connect the power inserter's RED connector (marked SWM) to the SWM's RED connector (marked SWM 1/POWER). The *********** inserter connecter goes to your SWM-capable receiver(s).


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## Flandon (Nov 13, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> *OVERVIEW:*
> 
> SWM8 diagram Here


In this diagram you have a OTA antena. Will that work with full digital cable?

thanks,
Flandon


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Flandon said:


> In this diagram you have a OTA antena. Will that work with full digital cable?
> 
> thanks,
> Flandon


I guess the first question would be what do you mean by "full digital"?
RF is "RF" whether analog or digital modulation.
In the 54-860 MHz band currently we have both.
If you mean outside of this band [where they may be some other signals from your cable company], then you would need to "try it" and see.
The DirecTV receivers don't have any "cable" tuners, so don't count on them to receive anything.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

Current SWM compatible receivers Updated in post #1


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## Flandon (Nov 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I guess the first question would be what do you mean by "full digital"?
> RF is "RF" whether analog or digital modulation.
> In the 54-860 MHz band currently we have both.
> If you mean outside of this band [where they may be some other signals from your cable company], then you would need to "try it" and see.
> The DirecTV receivers don't have any "cable" tuners, so don't count on them to receive anything.


Sorry about the Vague "full digital" I guess what my questions were. what band width, (which you answered) and does it allow for two way communications that would be necessary for a HD-DVR Cable box?

thanks again
Flandon


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Flandon said:


> Sorry about the Vague "full digital" I guess what my questions were. what band width, (which you answered) and* does it allow for two way communications that would be necessary for a HD-DVR Cable box*?
> 
> thanks again
> Flandon


Now this would depend on what frequencies your cable company is using for the "return". "I would guess" that they could be using 20 MHz as one of my cable systems used, but there is no way to know for sure without "trying it". The SWM return is down at 2.3 MHz which should be well below your cable.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

Note:

The *SWM 5 has been discontinued* and now there is only 2 models in production.

*The SWMline:----* (has the SWM-8 built into the LNB assembly)
*The SWM-8:-----* ( has 8 tuners and 1 OTA input and is used in combination with the Slimline 5LNB & the Slimline 3LNB)



gulfwarvet said:


> For some time the SWM-5 & the SWM-8 have been out for field trials and now are showing up in normal installs. We all saw and admired the installation photo's that many great CE'ers produced, taking large amounts of time so we all can learn.
> 
> I would like to take this one step further, providing trouble shooting tips for the SWM's. In the post above, I will continue to list the awesome tips that we come up with. I've started with just a few basic ones that i can think of. What kind of more advance trouble shooting can we put together?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

gulfwarvet said:


> Note:
> 
> The *SWM 5 has been discontinued* and now there is only 2 models in production.
> 
> ...


Just to add to the confusion, the SWMline will show up on the techs workorders as a SWM5. Presuming that supposed to be for Slimline SWM 5 LNB. I expect to see SWM3 show up for the SL3 LNB with built in SWM.

Everyone thoroughly confused yet? :lol:


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Just to add to the confusion, the SWMline will show up on the techs workorders as a SWM5. Presuming that supposed to be for Slimline SWM 5 LNB. I expect to see SWM3 show up for the SL3 LNB with built in SWM.
> 
> Everyone thoroughly confused yet? :lol:


Yeah that is a bit confusing for sure.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> I currently have only 2 cables coming from my 5LNB to my HR20. I eventually want to add another HR unit sometime in the future.
> 
> What would be better?
> 
> ...


1) i think that if you run it that way, on your splitter would need to only have 1 power passing leg. that would be the one you would connect the PI to.

2) if you get the SWM switch you would need to run all 4 coax'es from the Slimeline 5lnb to the 4 input ports on the switch. if not, your recievers won't see all the sat's.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

gulfwarvet said:


> 1) i think that if you run it that way, on your splitter would need to only have 1 power passing leg. that would be the one you would connect the PI to.
> 
> 2) if you get the SWM switch you would need to run all 4 coax'es from the Slimeline 5lnb to the 4 input ports on the switch. if not, your recievers won't see all the sat's.


Whats the best kind of splitters to use, any particular brand?

Thanks for the info.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> Whats the best kind of splitters to use, any particular brand?
> 
> Thanks for the info.


here's a link to smiddy's first look on the swm odu. it has a list of approved slpitters that can be used

http://hr20.dbstalk.com/Slimline SWM ODU LNB First Look.pdf


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## Wotan (May 20, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My number 1 tip - Quality Compression Coax Connectors.


Yesterday I had a tech re-align my dish since I had lost the 103 satellite and my HD locals completely. He got my signal levels up higher than I've ever seen, but now the 101 satellite has mostly zero transponders (but some as 95!). 101 is so bad that setup can't even download the program guide.

The ONLY thing he did was align the dish and replace some of my lousy (he said) white-centered barrel connectors with his slick-looking blue-centered ones. However, he SNIPPED the 4 cables coming from the dish while the SWM-8 and all DVR's were live and online. He said I didn't need to power anything down.

Could this have fried the SWM? Or are his fancy hi-test HD-qual barrel connectors at fault?

When you say "Compression Connectors" do you simply mean THREADED ones?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Wotan said:


> Yesterday I had a tech re-align my dish since I had lost the 103 satellite and my HD locals completely. He got my signal levels up higher than I've ever seen, but now the 101 satellite has mostly zero transponders (but some as 95!). 101 is so bad that setup can't even download the program guide.
> 
> The ONLY thing he did was align the dish and replace some of my lousy (he said) white-centered barrel connectors with his slick-looking blue-centered ones. However, he SNIPPED the 4 cables coming from the dish while the SWM-8 and all DVR's were live and online. He said I didn't need to power anything down.
> 
> ...


Cutting the cable while they had voltage, was a big no no. :eek2:

Thread on connectors are garbage.
"Blue centered" barrels are fine, but any barrel can be a source of problems. Try to keep all connectors to a minimum.

With probelms on 101, what do your 99 levels look like? they use the same cable from the SWM.


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## Wotan (May 20, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Cutting the cable while they had voltage, was a big no no. :eek2:
> 
> Thread on connectors are garbage.
> "Blue centered" barrels are fine, but any barrel can be a source of problems. Try to keep all connectors to a minimum.


Wow, I found the problem. You're right, VOS, it WAS the connectors. All I did was to disconnect and reconnect all 4 threaded blue-centered barrel connectors. Bingo.

But I'm curious. I've never seen anything but threaded barrel connectors. The cable terminators themselves aren't twist-on, they're good quality, like factory cables come. But they ARE threaded around the center wire, as usual.

Are you saying there are barrel connectors that push together, rather than being double-sided male threads?


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

VOS is always right


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

Wotan said:


> Wow, I found the problem. You're right, VOS, it WAS the connectors. All I did was to disconnect and reconnect all 4 threaded blue-centered barrel connectors. Bingo.
> 
> But I'm curious. I've never seen anything but threaded barrel connectors. The cable terminators themselves aren't twist-on, they're good quality, like factory cables come. But they ARE threaded around the center wire, as usual.
> 
> Are you saying there are barrel connectors that push together, rather than being double-sided male threads?


i believe he is speaking of the twist on(threaded) f connectors, not the barrel connectors


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Wotan said:


> Wow, I found the problem. You're right, VOS, it WAS the connectors. All I did was to disconnect and reconnect all 4 threaded blue-centered barrel connectors. Bingo.
> 
> But I'm curious. I've never seen anything but threaded barrel connectors. The cable terminators themselves aren't twist-on, they're good quality, like factory cables come. But they ARE threaded around the center wire, as usual.
> 
> Are you saying there are barrel connectors that push together, rather than being double-sided male threads?


To be clear: all good F-type connectors will "thread on" to the mating connector.
Now there are some "twist on" connectors that "thread on" to THE CABLE :nono: :nono2:


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## Wotan (May 20, 2007)

OK, so when I DO have to use connectors (which I do keep to an absolute minimum), these are the ones to use:










He also used some cool rubber booties on both ends that he said kept water out better than electrical tape. He poo-pooed my electrical tape wrappings saying they tended to hold water and corrode the fittings.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Wotan said:


> He also used some cool rubber booties on both ends that he said kept water out better than electrical tape. He poo-pooed my electrical tape wrappings saying they tended to hold water and corrode the fittings.


Water "proofing" is tough.
A boot is good, but not "proof".
I've "taped" connectors that have been "proof". 
It may come to technique & tape used, and my days in the Air Force.


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## Flandon (Nov 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Now this would depend on what frequencies your cable company is using for the "return". "I would guess" that they could be using 20 MHz as one of my cable systems used, but there is no way to know for sure without "trying it". The SWM return is down at 2.3 MHz which should be well below your cable.


Results-
Got it working with HDDVR SA8300hd.
Sorry for the delay.


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## markheus (May 27, 2007)

Hey 

Quicki question. I did an install this afternoon for an HR21 and 3 D12's. I used the single line LNB.

Installed system and put PI behind HD-DVR. Works fine. 
Go to next room. Single levels are fine but D12 hangs at acquiring guide info. Replace splitter (had a bad one ther other day) Unplug receivers and no change. Hr21 still working but no others.

Move PI to BR - BR begins to work but others do not. After futzing around for about 30 minutes all receivers begin to work. Activated system and let my phone number.

The customer called me about 30 minutes ago saying the HR 21 was working but none of the others were. THe PI is behind the BR which is not working.

Some details about the installation.

BR - Home run to splitter
HR21 - Home runt to splitter.
Other 2 D12's One line to power pass - then home runs to each other TV.

all connectors have been replaced in the system.

I'm going by there tomorrow with another LNB but I'd like a heads up. I've done about 20 of these with minimal problems.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

markheus said:


> Hey
> 
> Quicki question. I did an install this afternoon for an HR21 and 3 D12's. I used the single line LNB.
> 
> ...


The PI must go to the power pass port on the splitter. Any other port and craziness insues.

As for the D12s, I've found that fresh out of the box, sometimes they need a reboot or two for them to kick into swm mode.

Before you hooked up receivers, did all your lines pass with the SWM meter?


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## markheus (May 27, 2007)

The PI is hooked up to the power pass port. They D12's have been rebooted multiple times and fresh software downloaded. 

SWM Meter's are in short supply at my office. I will grab one tomorrow and take it with me. 

What seemed odd was at the beginning of the issues it seemed as though only the receiver would with thej PI would work. But that's not the case now.


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## neur (Oct 29, 2008)

Please guys could you please diagram for me a the slimline 5 with 1 cable wire, I have 3 receivers and the new PI 21 inserter. Whole system went down today and cant get it back up. The installer put the PI on the leg with the HD ird, the other two are HD DVR's. Right now the system is connected as such
SAT dish>splitter>PI on one ird leg and 2 irds on the other two ports of the splitter
thanks Neur


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

neur said:


> Please guys could you please diagram for me a the slimline 5 with 1 cable wire, I have 3 receivers and the new PI 21 inserter. Whole system went down today and cant get it back up. The installer put the PI on the leg with the HD ird, the other two are HD DVR's. Right now the system is connected as such
> SAT dish>splitter>PI on one ird leg and 2 irds on the other two ports of the splitter
> thanks Neur


whole bunch here http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1419520&postcount=4


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> *STEPS:*
> 
> 3. Connect (4) Dish AT-9 (or AU-9) RG6 to SWM satellite inputs (max 40'). Flex 1 & 2 are for other satellite dishes.
> 
> - Craig


Forgive me if this question has already been answered elsewhere. I have been reading posts for hours and just can't seem to find this information.

Does it matter which one of the 4 cables from the dish get's hooked up to the satellite input ports on the SWM-8 or can they be connected in any order?

Thanks,
Erik


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

edenkers said:


> Forgive me if this question has already been answered elsewhere. I have been reading posts for hours and just can't seem to find this information.
> 
> Does it matter which cable get's hooked up to the incoming ports on the SWM-8?
> 
> ...


If the SWM is the only switch, no. Any cable into any input. The switch inside the dish itself is controlled by the SWM.

Now if you need more than 8 tuners, you'll need more switches, typically run in parallel. Then you have to be sure that the 4 lines from the dish are split and the split signals go to the same ports on the switches/SWMs. Doesn't matter which goes to which, just that they are wired the same. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

Thanks for the quick reply Tom. I have one more question for you folks out there. In addition to the SWM-8 with PI, I ordered an NAS 1x8 SWM Splitter (DirecTV approved) from weaknees.com. 

From what I have been reading tonight, should I have ordered two (2) 1x4 Splitters instead or am I okay using the 1x8 splitter?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

edenkers said:


> Thanks for the quick reply Tom. I have one more question for you folks out there. In addition to the SWM-8 with PI, I ordered an NAS 1x8 SWM Splitter (DirecTV approved) from weaknees.com.
> 
> From what I have been reading tonight, should I have ordered two (2) 1x4 Splitters instead or am I okay using the 1x8 splitter?


 The SWM8 has two outputs. How many receivers are you planning to connect?
You really don't want to have more outputs than you are going to use, since you need to use terminations on all unused ports.
I've got 3 DVRs & 1 other receiver all fed off 1 4-way splitter [and I'm not using the second SWM output either]


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

I have 5 receivers with a total of 8 tuners. 3 DVRs and 2 HD Receivers.

HR20-100
HR20-700
HR32-700

H23-600
H23-600

So, should I change my order for two (2) 1x4 splitters or go with the one (1) 1x8 splitter?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

edenkers said:


> I have 5 receivers with a total of 8 tuners. 3 DVRs and 2 HD Receivers.
> 
> HR20-100
> HR20-700
> ...


Either way will work...although I'd go with 2 1X4's just to have a way to isolate issues if and when they might even arise.

That said...running 2 SWM's here for a long time, with no problems whatsoever.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

edenkers said:


> I have 5 receivers with a total of 8 tuners. 3 DVRs and 2 HD Receivers.
> 
> HR20-100
> HR20-700
> ...


 I see the need for only one 4-way splitter. The HRs need only one cable, so you're "looking for" five outputs. The SWM8 has two, so splitting one of them 4-ways [says SWM #2] means you can connect the PI to SWM #1 and then to "a receiver".


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

having a second splitter on hand for a spare is good idea too, from what I read VOS suggestion above makes most sense to me.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

I think VOS is right, too. With 8 tuners, you're maxed out on SWM so more ability to split signals won't get you anything. You could add receivers later using the legacy ports, but you can't split those.


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

bakers12 said:


> I think VOS is right, too. With 8 tuners, you're maxed out on SWM so more ability to split signals won't get you anything. You could add receivers later using the legacy ports, but you can't split those.


I know that you can get a maximum of 8 tuners on the SWM-8. However, if you max them out, can you really still add additional tuners using the legacy ports?


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

edenkers said:


> I know that you can get a maximum of 8 tuners on the SWM-8. However, if you max them out, can you really still add additional tuners using the legacy ports?


IIRC, there are 3 legacy ports on a SWM-8, so you can have 11 tuners total, but only 8 of them can use SWM. So keep DVRs off the legacy ports.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bakers12 said:


> IIRC, there are 3 legacy ports on a SWM-8, so you can have 11 tuners total, but only 8 of them can use SWM. So keep DVRs off the legacy ports.


 The legacy ports pass Ka Hi, but not Ka Lo.


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## miketorse (Jul 30, 2008)

edenkers said:


> I know that you can get a maximum of 8 tuners on the SWM-8. However, if you max them out, can you really still add additional tuners using the legacy ports?


Yes, BUT those legacy ports only pass the 101, 110 and 119 satellites. Basically no HD (99 and 103 satellites), only SD programing.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

miketorse said:


> Yes, BUT those legacy ports only pass the 101, 110 and 119 satellites. Basically no HD (99 and 103 satellites), only SD programing.


 As you might see ^, this isn't quite true. If your local HD are from the Ka-Hi birds, then you can get them through the legacy posts [along with the "few" Ku HD channels still left].


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## miketorse (Jul 30, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> As you might see ^, this isn't quite true. If your local HD are from the Ka-Hi birds, then you can get them through the legacy posts [along with the "few" Ku HD channels still left].


Touche...


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The legacy ports pass Ka Hi, but not Ka Lo.


I'll keep that in mind. That's quite a limitation.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bakers12 said:


> I'll keep that in mind. That's quite a limitation.


 Yes it's not ideal for the new receivers, but if your locals come off the Spaceway birds, then there might be "some use" out of them, just none of the new national HD. [aka if you don't need BBCs to receive a channel, you're good]


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## Volunteer (Oct 14, 2006)

Just a quick note that might help somebody ....

I finally got my SWM-8 working after finding out that it's important that the SWM ground is connected to the same ground coming from the Slimline 5LNB.

Prior to this none of my HR20's would detect the SWM nor any satellite signal either automatically or manually (via satellite setup). If you find this problem make sure you've got all the grounds connected together.

I was ready to decide the SWM itself was defective until I discovered that just connecting the SWM to the HR20 w/o any for the four LNB connections, that the HR20 would detect the SWM present, but of course no satellite behind it.


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