# HDMI -> DVI cable



## wahoolions (Jul 26, 2006)

When the Dish network folks installed my 622, they gave me an HDMI -> DVI cable, but also an adapter that will take the other end from DVI -> HDMI. Is there any downside to doing this? I'd like to have HDMI straight through, so the question is should I get an HDMI -> HDMI cable, or is using the adapter accomplishing the same thing (from a signal quality perspective)?

Thanks,

-Gary


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

wahoolions said:


> When the Dish network folks installed my 622, they gave me an HDMI -> DVI cable, but also an adapter that will take the other end from DVI -> HDMI. Is there any downside to doing this? I'd like to have HDMI straight through, so the question is should I get an HDMI -> HDMI cable, or is using the adapter accomplishing the same thing (from a signal quality perspective)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Gary


You will lose 2 channel stereo. DVI caries no audio.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Since it is digitial you will not experience any PQ loss. However, HDMI does do audio and I am not sure if this adapter would not pass through the audio. Personally I would get a HDMI-HDMI cable. Do a search for HDMI cable here and you will get a number of online sources where you can get one at a decent price. Do not go to a B&M store and purchase one.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Thought so tnsprin, but since I never tried it and was not familar with the pins configuration I was not sure if that was the case. Thanks for clarifying that point.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

tnsprin said:


> You will lose 2 channel stereo. DVI caries no audio.


This is not correct. The audio is not demuxed somehow from the siganl... it's still present at the DVI connector. The issue is there is no DVI protocol to allow utilization of the audio. I have my wife's 622 connected to a Panasonic 37" Plasma using the Dish Provided (for 942) HDMI to DVI cable and the DVI to HDMI adapter and the 2 Ch sound is indeed heard thru the set's speakers.

Bottom line, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by repalcing the Dish supplied cables with a straight HDMI to HDMI cable.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if that is true salti, you do gain one less connection point that could be problematic, but that would be a minor consideration in my book. So if you go HDMI->DVI->HDMI you do not lose the 2 channel Audio?


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Well if that is true salti, you do gain one less connection point that could be problematic, but that would be a minor consideration in my book. So if you go HDMI->DVI->HDMI you do not lose the 2 channel Audio?


Correct - you do *not* lose the 2 Ch audio.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Cool... 

Oh.. and forgot to welcome wahoolions to the site. 

:welcome_s


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## wahoolions (Jul 26, 2006)

Thank you! Happy to be here, and hope I can begin contributing soon and not just asking all the questions  

Now, for the next point...I've been reading some of the other posts, and am confused about the ability of the 622 to output 5.1 channel audio. Is it true that the receiver cannot currently output DD / 5.1 from the HDMI port no matter what? It sounded like if you possess a receiver that can accommodate HDMI switching that it would work, but it's unclear to me. Any light you can shed on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-Gary


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Correct - you do *not* lose the 2 Ch audio.


I am surprised this would be the case. The DVI standard did not support Audio.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

wahoolions said:


> Thank you! Happy to be here, and hope I can begin contributing soon and not just asking all the questions
> 
> Now, for the next point...I've been reading some of the other posts, and am confused about the ability of the 622 to output 5.1 channel audio. Is it true that the receiver cannot currently output DD / 5.1 from the HDMI port no matter what? It sounded like if you possess a receiver that can accommodate HDMI switching that it would work, but it's unclear to me. Any light you can shed on this will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...


You need to use the optical output for 5.1


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## Jim Noyd (May 15, 2005)

wahoolions said:


> Thank you! Happy to be here, and hope I can begin contributing soon and not just asking all the questions
> 
> Now, for the next point...I've been reading some of the other posts, and am confused about the ability of the 622 to output 5.1 channel audio. Is it true that the receiver cannot currently output DD / 5.1 from the HDMI port no matter what? It sounded like if you possess a receiver that can accommodate HDMI switching that it would work, but it's unclear to me. Any light you can shed on this will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...


The current HDMI spec doesn't support multi-channel audio. v1.3 will and available end of this year or early next.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Jim Noyd said:


> The current HDMI spec doesn't support multi-channel audio. v1.3 will and available end of this year or early next.


Multichannel was supported before 1.3. However Dish does not even call there output HDMI to avoid complaints that they do not fully match the standard.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

tnsprin said:


> I am surprised this would be the case. The DVI standard did not support Audio.


DVI doesn't support audio, but there is nothing in the HDMI cable that is used for audio and video other than the same data bits that DVI uses for video alone. A HDMI-DVI-HDMI "cable" will perform the same as a HDMI-HDMI cable for basic A/V functions. There was a remote control connection (optional) added to a HDMI connector that didn't have a DVI equivalent, but an ohm meter would show you the same results w/ or w/o the DVI connection in the middle. The 942 shipped with the DVI connectors in the middle of its "HDMI cable".


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

tnsprin said:


> Multichannel was supported before 1.3. However Dish does not even call there output HDMI to avoid complaints that they do not fully match the standard.


Can you name a single A/V receiver that will decode multicahhel x.1 sound via HDMI?

Dish does not demux the data stream to remove the multichannel and leave the 2 Channel. Why would they?  They, like everyone else, simply pass that data along. Don't blame Dish for this one.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Can you name a single A/V receiver that will decode multicahhel x.1 sound via HDMI? Don't blame Dish for this one.


Some of the Denon models decode it.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

SaltiDawg said:


> Can you name a single A/V receiver that will decode multicahhel x.1 sound via HDMI?
> 
> Dish does not demux the data stream to remove the multichannel and leave the 2 Channel. Why would they?  They, like everyone else, simply pass that data along. Don't blame Dish for this one.


True we shouldn't blame Dish. However they do extract the 2 channel stereo, so I see how they could route that to the HDMI port. Note the stereo analog outputs on the back panel...

To make HDMI audio work properly Dish needs to query the receiving device to determine if it's capable of accepting 5.1, if not it then sends stereo. I don't believe Dish has implemented this query function yet.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

dave1234 said:


> True we shouldn't blame Dish. However they do extract the 2 channel stereo, so I see how they could route that to the HDMI port. Note the stereo analog outputs on the back panel...


They do *not* "extract" the 2 Ch stereo. To do that they would have to demux that data stream and then remux the other components. Dish (and all other manufactures of HDMI devices) simply passes that data (content). In order to be *usable* there must be in-place protocols that provide for the capable to use the data. Until Vers 1.3 (IIRC) of the HDMI Spec there was no protocol in place to allow *using* the X.1 stereo. Again, nobody has replied with the name of *any* A/V receiver that can use the X.1 input from HDMI.

The notion that because the set has stereo analog audio outputs on the back somehow supports the notion that somehow Dish is failing to provide X.1 stero by HDMI would be mistaken.

My 20 year old Sony DXR will *only* accept these RCA Jack Stereo Inputs. My five year old receiver does not accept HDMI and thus I find use for the 622's Optical Output for Dolby Digital.

When Vers 1.3 of the HDMI Spec becomes widely found, I'll look to replacing my Yamaha A/V receiver with one that is HDMI capable (and compliant) and at that time will eliminate the optical cables from my DVD player and from the 622.:grin:


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

tnsprin said:


> Some of the Denon models decode it.


Please name one Model and also what source do you think it receives?


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Please name one Model and also what source do you think it receives?


Denon 2807.
Multichannel input is claimed as well as 1080P support.
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3038.asp


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## wahoolions (Jul 26, 2006)

Actually the 2807 is the model I'm looking to purchase. Does it sound like that receiver might actually be able to decode the 5.1 from the HDMI on the 622, or are we saying for sure that there's only 2-channel stereo being pumped out of that port and we HAVE to use optical (or component) to get DD?


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## Jim Noyd (May 15, 2005)

tnsprin said:


> Denon 2807.
> Multichannel input is claimed as well as 1080P support.
> http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3038.asp


1080p digital RGB switching and pass through is believable. I just don't know how they can do multi-channel audio with currently available HDMI chipsets or if the receiver's processor would know how to handle multi-channel audio from an HDMI input.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Jim Noyd said:


> 1080p digital RGB switching and pass through is believable. I just don't know how they can do multi-channel audio with currently available HDMI chipsets or if the receivers processor would know how to handle multi-channel audio from an HDMI input.


Jim,

One has only to go to the AVS Forums in the Audio/Reveivers thread and search on Denon 2807 HDMI or simila... the 2807 apparently is not decoding Multi -Channel (>2) audio from HDMI.

The 2807 has Vers 1.1 for it's HDMI.

The gentleman that volunteered presumably does not own one and to make it even more unlikely, one would need the *source* have the Version required for the handshake and protocols.

Again, it would be great if *anyone* would post *first hand* knowledge of a source and receiver passing X.1 audio by HDMI. Frequently these threads keep coming back to folks , meaning well, saying that ther is no audio present at a DVI cable or saying that there is no DD available from this product or not via HDMI. No matter the intentions, this is mistaken.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

tnsprin said:


> I am surprised this would be the case. The DVI standard did not support Audio.


This was a point of confusion, much discussed in another thread, maybe more. I was one who misunderstood as well and thought some were saying they could pass audio through DVI connection but what they were trying to say was they had success using the DVI cables with HDMI source AND termination points via adapters and this should work since they were technically never using DVI, only as a cable to interconnect HDMI at both ends. The DVI "does not support audio" is true, BUT that assumes you are using a DVI connection at one end or the other. The cables are just wire and with any HDMI to DVIconnection you'd lose the audio (all of it) from HDMI if you plugged into a DVI termination point (equipment, not cables or adapters). However, if you took that HDMI to DVI adapter cable and then converted back to HDMI and connected it to an HDMI termination point, the wire connections in all of this carries the digital audio straignt through on the data wires as it does the video data. Again, the DVI does not support audio has to do with the source or the termination point, not the wires/cables. The output from the 622 does not support DD5.1, only DD2.0 on it's HDMI. This appears to be a DishNetwork special equipment issue. Dolby specs for digital audio is that any DD5.1 also has DD2.0 but DD2.0 does not also carry DD5.1 In other words Dolby Digital AC-3(5.1) is 8 audio channels(5.1 +2.0) while DD2.0 is only two data channels. The wires to carry these signals can vary depending on the method used from 2 as in coax, to fiber optic plastic and light, to a multiple of twisted pairs as in cat, HDMI and even in DVI cable.

What seems to be the real question , remaining is a confirmation that given a proper HDMI DD5.1 termination point such as the Denon receivers with this feature, will the 622 send DD5.1 data. Regardless of the wire adapters used, my information says no, only DD2.0 and will require a modification for this to work. I don't know if this is a chip limitation meaning hardware upgrade or if software upgrade. One thing is certain, the HDMI receivers capable of doing DD5.1 HDMI all also have fiber inputs that will work, so it is not an issue as I see it unless you are one of those people who insist on the "flavor" of your wires as more important than the result of what those wires carry.  For any who have very long runs between the 622 and the HDMI termination point this could be a cause for concern due to the limits on FO cable lengths.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Jim,
> 
> One has only to go to the AVS Forums in the Audio/Reveivers thread and search on Denon 2807 HDMI or simila... the 2807 apparently is not decoding Multi -Channel (>2) audio from HDMI.
> 
> ...


I checked on the AVS forum and see noone complaining that it doesn't do dolby 5.1 through the hdmi. I don't have one (waiting to see if they will release one supporting hdmi 1.3 for a hd-dvd or blu-ray player).

Hdmi 1.0 is all that is needed for dolby 5.1(this is contrary to at least one of my own posts). A recent good article on HDMI is at
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/07/hdmi_part_1_-_a.php


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## orenr (Jun 10, 2004)

wahoolions said:


> When the Dish network folks installed my 622, they gave me an HDMI -> DVI cable, but also an adapter that will take the other end from DVI -> HDMI. Is there any downside to doing this? I'd like to have HDMI straight through, so the question is should I get an HDMI -> HDMI cable, or is using the adapter accomplishing the same thing (from a signal quality perspective)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Gary


I'm getting ready to switch from D* to E* and this post seems relevant to my situation, although I'm not sure I fully understand it. Is that adapter for extracting the sound from the HDMI and connecting it to the TV, or does it serve a different purpose?

I have a TV with a DVI/HDCP input. I intend to connect the 622 to the TV, through an HDMI->DVI cable, and the sound through an optical cable to my receiver (I don't care much about the sound going to the TV). Do I need anything else?


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## hokie-dk (Feb 4, 2006)

orenr said:


> I have a TV with a DVI/HDCP input. I intend to connect the 622 to the TV, through an HDMI->DVI cable, and the sound through an optical cable to my receiver (I don't care much about the sound going to the TV). Do I need anything else?


You shouldn't need anything else.


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

There is one more thing you will need. The 622's hdmi port to continue working!
I gave up on it and went to component.


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## Jim Noyd (May 15, 2005)

steelhorse said:


> There is one more thing you will need. The 622's hdmi port to continue working!
> I gave up on it and went to component.


I have the 622's HDMI signal going through a Gefen 2x1 HDMI switch and then to a BenQ 8700 with a 12 meter Ultralink HDMI Pro cable and a HDMI to DVI Adapter with no issues.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

SaltiDawg said:


> They do *not* "extract" the 2 Ch stereo. To do that they would have to demux that data stream and then remux the other components. Dish (and all other manufactures of HDMI devices) simply passes that data (content). In order to be *usable* there must be in-place protocols that provide for the capable to use the data. Until Vers 1.3 (IIRC) of the HDMI Spec there was no protocol in place to allow *using* the X.1 stereo. Again, nobody has replied with the name of *any* A/V receiver that can use the X.1 input from HDMI.
> 
> The notion that because the set has stereo analog audio outputs on the back somehow supports the notion that somehow Dish is failing to provide X.1 stero by HDMI would be mistaken.
> 
> ...


OK so where does the stereo signal come from that feeds the RCA jacks and the HDMI 2.0 audio? If the 5.1 audio was "just passed through" you'd have no voice on the stereo outputs out the back or the HDMI output since the 5.1 center channel typically carries the voice(or more accurately signals that are of equal strength and in phase on the left and right channels). 
You're likely correct they don't demux 5.1 to 2.0, there is likely a separate 2.0 audio feed from the satellite that's passed through to the stereo RCA jacks in the back and HDMI audio port.

My point was the 2.0 stereo has to come from somewhere...


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