# Can someone please explain the fox hd issue to me?



## e-man (May 13, 2008)

I'm a newbie here, obviously. I was wondering if someone could please explain the reasons why the channels owned by Fox aren't in HD through E*. I've been reading the posts, and I've seen mentions of lawsuits and things like that. I just think that it's ridiculous that no Fox Programming at all is in HD on dish, at least in my area. I don't even get the local fox affiliate feed in HD here, which I think is absolutely ridiculous. My affiliate said it's E* fault. E* sends the same stupid emails every week (I email every week complaining about no Fox local HD feed and no SpeedHD feed) saying thanks for being a customer, don't know if/when this will happen etc. etc. I've heard the company lines from both sides, so I was hoping that if I asked on here I could get some real answers and not the company statement. thanks.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Two primary reasons:

1. Until recently, DirecTV was majority owned by News Corp (it has since been sold to Liberty Media). Thus, Fox had many exclusives with DirecTV.

2. Fox's networks deliberately delayed their conversions to HD, deciding to wait for 2nd/3rd generation hardware and lower prices. This was justified at the time because there was very little HD transmission capacity on cable or satellite systems. Most Fox-owned networks have only recently or are just now starting to go HD. So, in many cases, NO ONE has the network in HD, because the network itself is still on SD. That is, of course, changing as time goes on.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

but the local fox affiliate has been bragging about hd for at least 3 years that i can remember. that's my biggest problem with this whole thing, because the super bowl and the daytona 500 are able to be viewed in hd, but not if you have dish.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

You can't get it OTA? If Marysville is in the Sacramento DMA, then Fox40 is in HD, but OTA only.

This particular affiliate is owned by Tribune, and they've been notoriously stingy.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

KTXL is uplinked but not available. This suggest that for some reason, the station or Tribune hasn't been able to reach agreement with DISH Network.

DIRECTV offers much better Sacramento local coverage with ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC, CW and MNT. Maybe you should look in that direction (assuming that the spotbeams favor you).

In future, you should reference the stations by callsign. Saying that you're speaking of the Fox station that can be received in Marysville is decidedly evasive.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

I'm not sure what OTA is, but I tried hooking up an antenna, but I think I'm just stupid when it comes to the rabbit ears. I've never been able to get a signal with those things. 

I will identify the stations by call signs from now on. I'm still learning all of this stuff, so I just figured local fox affiliate would suffice. 

My wife works for the local CW affiliate. CBS13 is delivered in HD on Dish, but CW31 isn't. They're owned by the same company. That's kind of weird.

I would switch to Directv, but I have a contract through dish, and don't want to pay to get out of it. I do like dish, I just don't like that infighting between companies seems to be the reason that I don't get a certain station.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

e-man said:


> I'm not sure what OTA is, but I tried hooking up an antenna, but I think I'm just stupid when it comes to the rabbit ears. I've never been able to get a signal with those things.
> 
> I will identify the stations by call signs from now on. I'm still learning all of this stuff, so I just figured local fox affiliate would suffice.
> 
> ...


OTA=Over-The-Air... basically using an antenna to pick up the free TV signals transmitted from the stations. At your distance to the antenna farm in Walnut Grove, you'd most likely need an outdoor antenna pointed down south-rabbit ears won't be good enough. You should be able to pick up all local affiliates and their signals, and using a Dish receiver with an antenna input, you'll be able to get CW and FOX in HD.

Check out threads at www.avsforum.com or www.tvfool.com for more info. Good luck.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Dish is not currently carrying CW stations in HD. The issue is simple enough. If you carry 4 networks in 100 markets, you chew up 400 HD channels worth of bandwidth. Add CW stations, another 100. To add cable channels like Speed and Fx which are Fox owned would be 2 channels nationwide. (The networks get alot of bandwidth and many of us are beginning to wonder why as programming deteriorates into cheap reality tv but that's another issue.) TheTribune Company owned stations are another issue as the Tribune Company determines whether Dish can carry the Fox HD local channel in some market areas.

Tribune owns Fox locals and CW locals plus independent locals in some market areas. Tribune has been trying to use the Fox station as leverage to force Dish (and others, even cable companies) to carry the other stations in HD. Hence the ongoing battle. For more discussion in some market areas on this issue see this thread and this thread. These issues are why some feel that permitting ownership of multiple stations in the same market area is a bad idea. But the FCC and Congress have loosened up the rules.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

So maybe I should harass Tribune as well as Dish and KXTL. Not that it will work. I know that the CW (KMAX) affiliate in Sacramento is owned by CBS Corp. It was owned by them when it was UPN-31, and they combined operations when CBS Corp. bought KOVR from Sinclair a few years ago. Maybe I should just ask Bruno (Station President) why CW isn't carried by Dish in our market at the next company picnic or wtvr.


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## pbrown (May 23, 2002)

Correct. This discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with the FOX television network. The issue is Tribune broadcasting, which is witholding its HD signal from E* in an effort to get them to carry a secondary channel as well. The same thing is happening here in Seattle. I'm fortunate enough to recieve the channel over the air using an antenna in my attic, but it's not as convenient as having it on the sat.


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## webdog (May 24, 2008)

Another option may be to _move_ to San Francisco. You should fall into their HD spot beam. However you would lose some NFL games on Sunday during football season. If Reno had their HD market up on Dish, that would be another place to _move_ to. But so far I think Reno is still not uplinked.

If you have sat 129 hooked up, you could also _move_ to several different cities.


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## webdog (May 24, 2008)

Also C & P from another thread as to why Sacramento Dish users aren't getting Fox in HD.



Sphagnum said:


> As stated above, Fox40 in Sacramento has the same issue. Tribune wants all of their 4 Fox stations and something like 12 MyTV stations broadcast in HD on Dish. They are holding out for all or nothing and so Dish chooses nothing. Seattle, Sacramento, and a couple other major markets are not receiving Fox HD from Dish because of this issue. If it's not fixed coming up on next year's NFL season, no question that I am switching. Fox is my most watched local channel!
> 
> --dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=112120&highlight=Sacramento+Fox


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

e-man said:


> I'm still learning all of this stuff, so I just figured local fox affiliate would suffice.


My local Fox affiliate, KPTV, is available on DISH, so you need to be specific.

I live closer to you than much of the population of this forum, but I'm a little over 500 miles away. You're on a site that is visited by people from Puerto Rico to Juneau to Hawaii, so local to you isn't much help. Asking for help then leaving out the known details isn't really fair.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

This is an unfortunate situation. But if he were a couple of counties north he'd be in the Chico/Redding DMA and get no HD. Right now everything is weirdly inconsistent. I guess we need a Dish/Direct locals chart with all the DMA's and channels listed.

I'm in the San Francisco DMA and consider myself lucky. I had work related ties to Sacramento for years so before the "Distants" lawsuit I used to get both Sacramento and SFO stations (SD of course).

Congress and the FCC shouldn't allow this to happen. But as we all know we don't pay enough into the reelect your Congress member funds.


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## Kman68 (Jan 24, 2008)

Back to the original question.

Fox News is not in the AT100 package. You have to subscribe to AT200 or better in order to get Fox News. News Corp wants Fox News in all Dish Network packages. News Corp is currently suing Echostar to increase the availability of Fox News to all Dish subscribers. That is, Fox is suing Dish to include Fox News in the AT100 (base) Dish Package.

To add insult to injury, NDS, a News Corp subsidiary, had in its employ a hacker who was giving away code to get Dish's signal for free. NDS knew this, but did not fire the employee. Dish took NDS to court in hopes of delivering a serious financial penalty on News Corp. Dish lost the suit. 

In the end, if you want SPEED HD, FX HD, Fox Business HD, subscribe to DirecTV. Without VOOM, what is holding you back? Sure, the Direc DVR sucks, but if you do not have anything to record what is the difference?


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Kman68 said:


> Back to the original question.
> 
> Fox News is not in the AT100 package. You have to subscribe to AT200 or better in order to get Fox News. News Corp wants Fox News in all Dish Network packages. News Corp is currently suing Echostar to increase the availability of Fox News to all Dish subscribers. That is, Fox is suing Dish to include Fox News in the AT100 (base) Dish Package.
> 
> ...




The original question was about a Fox local affiliate, not Fox News.


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## Sphagnum (Oct 20, 2007)

Wow, I got quoted in a thread I wasn't even involved in 

Anyway, I have since that comment hooked up a simple OTA antenna and am receiving WONDERFUL HD channels from all local affiliates, including FOX, but I am considerably closer to the signals than Marysville I believe. Not sure exactly where they originate from, but I pointed my antenna toward downtown and I got something like 15 channels!

I have given up on my local Tribune-owned Fox affiliate being carried in HD by E*.


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## Kman68 (Jan 24, 2008)

Taco Lover said:


> The original question was about a Fox local affiliate, not Fox News.


SPEED HD is a local channel?


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## Sphagnum (Oct 20, 2007)

Kman68 said:


> SPEED HD is a local channel?


 no....


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Kman68 said:


> SPEED HD is a local channel?


WTF?


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## Sphagnum (Oct 20, 2007)

I think Kman is a bit confused, which has left all of us confused... 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Kman68 said:


> Back to the original question.
> 
> ...
> To add insult to injury, NDS, a News Corp subsidiary, had in its employ a hacker who was giving away code to get Dish's signal for free. NDS knew this, but did not fire the employee. Dish took NDS to court in hopes of delivering a serious financial penalty on News Corp. Dish lost the suit.
> ...


The case actually can be argued as won. But not broadly.

Lots of Fox HD channels are up, both LIL and RSN. But they are apparently trying to force dish to make changes before allowing some of the other nationals to go up. Some reports even say that some additional Fox HD channels are only pending Dish getting then uplinked and available.


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## Bob Hess (Jan 2, 2007)

e-man said:


> So maybe I should harass Tribune as well as Dish and KXTL. Not that it will work. I know that the CW (KMAX) affiliate in Sacramento is owned by CBS Corp. It was owned by them when it was UPN-31, and they combined operations when CBS Corp. bought KOVR from Sinclair a few years ago. Maybe I should just ask Bruno (Station President) why CW isn't carried by Dish in our market at the next company picnic or wtvr.


This has long been a sore spot with us. Like one of the others said, Dish is carrying few, if any, of the CW affiliates. This will change...eventually. CBS Corporate is well aware of this.

If you live in Marysville, you should be able to get CW31 just fine over the air with a simple outside antenna. Tell your wife to see me for details.

Bob


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Keep in mind that in 100 markets adding The CW affiliates means 100 separate channels worth of bandwidth. Assuming an East Coast satellite and a West Coast satellite, we're talking about the same bandwidth as 50 national cable channels. Although we watch a couple of shows on The CW, in our house it's not even in the consideration compared to 50 more nationals.


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## cyberczar (Aug 13, 2007)

phrelin said:


> Keep in mind that in 100 markets adding The CW affiliates means 100 separate channels worth of bandwidth. Assuming an East Coast satellite and a West Coast satellite, we're talking about the same bandwidth as 50 national cable channels. Although we watch a couple of shows on The CW, in our house it's not even in the consideration compared to 50 more nationals.


Yes, but if that is true, then why on earth do we get KQCA 58, which is the local MyTV affiliate, in HD? Does anybody even watch this "network"?! Why are they wasting bandwidth on this and not giving us the CW?


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## cyberczar (Aug 13, 2007)

pbrown said:


> Correct. This discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with the FOX television network. The issue is Tribune broadcasting, which is witholding its HD signal from E* in an effort to get them to carry a secondary channel as well. The same thing is happening here in Seattle. I'm fortunate enough to recieve the channel over the air using an antenna in my attic, but it's not as convenient as having it on the sat.


It may not be as convenient as having it on the sat, but even if I had all my locals in HD via Dish, I'd still connect an OTA signal, as it allows use of the 3rd, OTA Tuner, which gives me the ability to record 3 shows at once, in stead of 2, which comes in extremely handy (although, until they get Fox or CW up on Dish, it sucks if something is on both of those channels at the same time, but one is better than getting neither)


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

I don't really watch CW either, except Good Day Sac, just cause my wife works on that show (not on air), to support her. I was in Dixon on Sunday at my parents house and it was SOOO nice to be able to watch KXTL in HD. It's the only cup race I've been able to watch live in HD this year. I can't believe that one company holding out is making it bad for everyone in this market.

Like I said when I started this thread, I'm new to all of this. When the switch to all digital happens at the beginning of next year, does that mean that Tribune will have to let E* broadcast their stations in HD, or does it have no effect unless a deal is made between these two companies?

Someone told me earlier to just switch to Directv. I would if I wasn't only 3 months into a 2 year contract with E*, but from all of the reading I've been doing on this forum, it sounds like E* has a better menu and DVR.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

_Another option may be to move to San Francisco. You should fall into their HD spot beam. However you would lose some NFL games on Sunday during football season. If Reno had their HD market up on Dish, that would be another place to move to. But so far I think Reno is still not uplinked._

I assume you mean not making a literal move, since your post had "move" in italics. How do I _move_ from one area to another?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

cyberczar said:


> Yes, but if that is true, then why on earth do we get KQCA 58, which is the local MyTV affiliate, in HD? Does anybody even watch this "network"?! Why are they wasting bandwidth on this and not giving us the CW?


This was a surprise to me since I haven't lived in the Sacramento area for five years. Must be a deal with Hearst-Argyle Television to get KCRA, the NBC affiliate, since they own the both.

This is the kind of stuff that is confusing to everyone. A Dish customer at this time could draw a 100 mile circle centered on Davis, CA and find a house in the Redding, Reno, Sacramento, or Sacramento DMA and have service ranging from no HD to whatever. Hopefully this will change in a few years.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

> This is the kind of stuff that is confusing to everyone. A Dish customer at this time could draw a 100 mile circle centered on Davis, CA and find a house in the Redding, Reno, Sacramento, or Sacramento DMA and have service ranging from no HD to whatever. Hopefully this will change in a few years.


I totally agree. Dish has certain channels in HD in some markets, but not others. D* has the same thing, I would guess. My local cable company is Comcast, but in the Marysville area they don't have all the channels available that are available in the Sacramento area. I've thought about getting Comcast basic just for the HD, but spending about 50 bucks more a month for one or 2 more HD channels doesn't make sense either.


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

Speed HD and Fox News HD this month there are 20 HD Channels Uplinked.


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## BWELL316 (Jun 2, 2007)

This goes back to when the Portland,ME were added. Is Fox-23 still uplinked (and no before you say OTA, Fox-23 out of Maine will not have OTA capabilities until 2009). Any hope this will be on before football season?


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Charlie Chat from tonight mentioned KXTL in HD will be lit, but no date given.


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## Sphagnum (Oct 20, 2007)

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

Yeah!!! I recorded the Charlie Chat, they said it's going to launch "this week." Too bad NASCAR isn't going to be on KXTL/ Fox for the rest of this season, which is what I really wanted to watch in HD, but Bones and House should look good!


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

e-man said:


> Yeah!!! I recorded the Charlie Chat, they said it's going to launch "this week." Too bad NASCAR isn't going to be on KXTL/ Fox for the rest of this season, which is what I really wanted to watch in HD, but Bones and House should look good!


Be happy when it's actually launched.  "This week" could really mean next year. 

Charlie mentioned in a Chat last year that'd we'd have FSNBA (CSNBA) in HD "by the end of the year", and we didn't get it until last month.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

> "This week" could really mean next year.


No no no. I want it this week. If we don't get it this week, do you know where Charlie lives? You and I can go picket his house.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

e-man said:


> No no no. I want it this week. If we don't get it this week, do you know where Charlie lives? You and I can go picket his house.


By "picket his house" you mean "hang him upside down by his toes"? 

I already get it OTA, so no biggie when it is lit. It would be nice to use the sat tuner to record as well.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

Taco Lover said:


> By "picket his house" you mean "hang him upside down by his toes"?
> 
> I already get it OTA, so no biggie when it is lit. It would be nice to use the sat tuner to record as well.


If hanging him upside down by his toes will get that HD feed turned on quicker, sure. Maybe while we have him up there, we can convince him to get SPEED up in HD too. 

I live too far to get it OTA without a roof antenna, and I have neither the time or the skill to mess with that. But now that Dish is getting at least the KXTL feed, I won't have to deal with switching to D*, which I was considering doing. Speed in HD would be nice, but I'm not switching just for that one station. I could care less about Fox News in HD.

I have a question though. Charlie was talking about all the Olympics coverage that's going to be in HD, so should we expect to get MSNBC in HD before the Olympics?


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

e-man said:


> I have a question though. Charlie was talking about all the Olympics coverage that's going to be in HD, so should we expect to get MSNBC in HD before the Olympics?


That's the rumor. Coverage should be on all NBC/Universal channels.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

SO we got KXTL, we "might" get MSNBC before the Olympics. We got WGN activated according to some of the other threads I've read. Any new national channels in hd with this latest update?


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

e-man said:


> SO we got KXTL, we "might" get MSNBC before the Olympics. We got WGN activated according to some of the other threads I've read. Any new national channels in hd with this latest update?


Nope.


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## e-man (May 13, 2008)

damn taco, i was hoping you would respond back with better news than that. oh well, at least i now won't get my hopes up in this last hour i'm chained to the desk.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Week ain't over yet.


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## kal915 (May 7, 2008)

> Speed HD and Fox News HD this month there are 20 HD Channels Uplinked.


Is this guessing or have you seen this somewhere else?


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