# Too old to understand the HD hype!



## nospmahm (Nov 18, 2006)

I am getting ready to purchase a HD wide screen TV. I currently have the Top 120 and local channels. I don't see any HD programming on the local Savannah channels nor do I see any HD programming on the "metal" channels that I would be willing to spend extra money for.
Is there any reason I should subscribe to any HD package? 
Will the picture I get on my new HDTV be any better with the ViP 622 DVR than with my current DVR 500?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

No improvement in picture from an SD Dish receiver to an HD Dish receiver unless you subscribe to the HD channels.

I just bought my first HD set ONLY because one of my TVs broke. I got a little set of rabbit ears to get the digital locals....

I have watched more local TV in the last week than I have in the last decade! I am now considering getting a 211 receiver and upping to the HD pack (Platinum from AEP) Once you see the difference in your own home, you may see what the hype is all about. Look at my previous posts about HD and then compare it to this one. 

See ya
Tony


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

My mom and dad were ready for a new TV and don't THINK they cared about HD either. I got them a JVC 56" 1080p DLA set and E* HD. They are totally blown away by the "looking out of a window" effect of HD. When friends or family come over they turn it to Discovery and ogle over how life like the picture is. If I remember correctly there are only 2 satiation in Savannah (they live near Savannah) that are HD (digital), CBS and NBC.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm and old geezer and did not enjoy my HDTV set very much with just an HD package, plus Voom (young folks seems to find many things on Voom interesting - but I only watch Equator), plus HBO HD. 

When we got the Dallas HD locals, and with all the other HD I had, plus putting up an OTA antenna for some digital stations here in the sticks, I have more HD programming than I can watch. Most primetime network programs are in HD. ESPN is terrific and is 95% HD. Even Wheel of Fortune and JEOPARDY! are now in HD! Leno, Letterman, and Conan O'Brien are in HD. Currently recording two HD football games while I surf the Web. 

I have a DVR 510. The difference between the SD picture on a 510 and the HD picture on a 622, 211, etc. is almost like the difference when we went from B&W to color. 

Having made this disclaimer about not having "real" HD fun until I got network locals , I will say that I was about the first person in this area to get an HDTV (Samsung DLP). I am still in awe of the picture quality, even with some picture breakup from time to time. 

You can get a different story from most everybody, but after a year of studying the subject, I bought a Samsung DLP. DLP is still the most inches and quality for the money, but some plasmas are dropping down close to first-line DLP prices. Sit in a showroom and watch the various model types, LCD, Plasma, DLP and take along your favorite Movie CD and ask them to play it. CRT (glass picture tube) HDs are on the way out. Big ones are monstrously heavy and take two people to get out of the carton. Boatanchors. 

I have had as many as 15 people come over to watch a football game, and I don't even know 15 people (they bring friends). They cannot believe the quality of HD and a couple are biting the bullet and going for Vip622 and HDTV set. Don't get carried away with getting a really big screen unless you have a big room. I sit 9 feet from a 46 inch DLP set and it seems perfect to me. 

With the HD pack(s), ESPN etc., and with possibly the two HD OTA stations you could pick up in Savannah (per William), you will never regret making the investment in HD. Also check some of the threads about when Dish may have HD LIL for Savannah stations. It is not hype. It is truly a revolution and I watched the first B&W TV in storefront the first month they were on the market, and that makes me a long-time TV viewer. 

The only hype that gets to me is how neat it will be to mount an LCD or Plasma set on the wall. Don't ever move your furniture. Not a huge percentage of people mount sets on the wall, for a variety of good reasons. It looks sexy on TV shows to see a family watching a set on the wall.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> Once you see the difference in your own home, you may see what the hype is all about. Look at my previous posts about HD and then compare it to this one.


Some of it comes from cognitive dissonance. 

One of my favorite phrases from college "cognitive dissonance".The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions.​In this case, the "I just spent a bunch of money on a new TV ... it must look better". 

Perhaps I didn't spend enough for cognitive dissonance to fully set in ... either that or E* receivers do an excellent job of upconverting SD. I can tell the difference between the HD promo played in SD on 101 and the HD version on 61.5° - but I found that my HD set makes SD look a lot better than it did on my old set.

HD is better ... it really shows up in detailed graphics.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James,

I do have to say that my new HD set makes the 501 receiver look MUCH better. But at the same time, it shows DN's bandwidth limitations much more clearly as well. The color banding and some other artifacts are much more evident. But the colors are much brighter and the image is as sharp as can be.

BTW, watching the OSU Michigan game today it was in HD. About half way into the seocnd quarter somethinghappened to the HD feed and ABC quickly switched to the SD feed. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Same TV, same channel. Went from a fabulous picture to an okay pix in the blink of an eye. I need to get an HD set for my living room very soon. 

See ya
Tony


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## rickaren (Jan 22, 2003)

*I get my first SS Check in January and have been retired for five years now. Don't understand how anyone at any age would not want a Home Theater and HD. In fact looking to upgrade again with a new SED next year, I hope. Even have D* and E* HD and three DVRs. Wife loves it too. Always something interesting to learn about the World in HD or just view Local OTA HD. We even have Local News now in HD from Indianapolis. Retirement is everything I wanted thanks to HD! Enjoy life, it may be shorter than you think.*


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

We've had a 61" HDTV in the family room for a couple of years and just added a 50" plasma in our bedroom. OTA HD plus E*'s package works very well for us. I'm turning 60 this year and having a ball. Good quality home theater is just part of the package.

John


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I think most people are interested in getting the local networks in HD. I don't watch many of the channels in SD that are in Dish's HD package so I really am not interested in it especially for $20 more.


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## dartonviper (Mar 10, 2004)

As an installer I always tell people that they will find themselves watching programs that they never thought they would watch. The picture quality speaks for itself!


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## nospmahm (Nov 18, 2006)

As usual I did not express myself clearly. What I don't understand is having to pay more for what I think I would less. For instance, the only sports I watch is NASCAR, the only HD channels listed for viewing NASCAR are TNT HD and ESPN HD, only 13 of the 38 races are on those channels. Other than those 13 races the rest are on the local FOX and ABC channels which may be broadcast in HD locally but not available from Dish in HD yet and I cannot get decent reception on either of those channels on an OTA antenna. To make matters worse, SPEED channel, which broadcasts a lot of NASCAR information, is not available in BRONZE so I would have to spend even more money for SILVER. The only other channels we watch are CNN, CNN HEADLING, FOX news, DISCOVERY, HISTORY, CMT (wife) and the locals channels available from DISH, I agree we have very narrow viewing requirements but there is more to life than TV!

There could possibly be some of the HD channels that I would find interesting, but, I can’t afford to spend another $20.00 a month to take that chance. It would be nice if Dish would let a customer try HD for a month for a trial run but we know that won’t happen.

So, unless someone can show me my above statements are incorrect I will buy the HGTV and plug along with my trusty DVR 522 and wait for HD to be more readily available.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Given your viewing habits, you are correct that Dish HD might not make sence. At least plug in the Dish receiver to the new TV through the S-Video jack and spend the $30-$40 on a good quality amplified rabbit ear antenna for OTA reception. I have great reception for digital (ATSC) OTA channels that only provide a marginal regular (NTSC) signal. The result is that channels I consider "unwatchable" before (NTSC) are now coming in perfectly with perfect pictures (ATSC)! Better than anything Dish could ever provide

See ya
Tony


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Perhaps I didn't spend enough for cognitive dissonance to fully set in ... either that or E* receivers do an excellent job of upconverting SD. I can tell the difference between the HD promo played in SD on 101 and the HD version on 61.5° - but I found that my HD set makes SD look a lot better than it did on my old set.
> 
> HD is better ... it really shows up in detailed graphics.


James: A lot of folks on forums say that SD viewed on a 622 sucks. I am with you. Sometimes, my Dallas SD LIL stations are so crisp on my DLP set that I have to check that I am really watching a SD feed.

My son had an old analog 60 incher. We would watch the same NFL game and talk on cell. I could see at least 20 more yards of the field with HD than he could with Dallas LIL SD. I asked him to read me the words on a patch on a uniform, and he could not make it out. I read it to him. He bought the same DLP set as mine and upgraded to 622 and has thanked me a 100 times for prodding him.

And I did not know that college graduates were allowed on forums. Cognitive dissonance, indeed. Res ipsa loquitur to you, Sir James.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It does make a difference what kind of monitor one has. I have a tube HDTV ... they tend to "smooth over" artifacts better than other types of HDTV sets. The other types seem to bring out the imperfections in the feeds along with the quality.

In essence, it is as it always will be: perception is up to the perceiver.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

TNGTony,
Just a follow up on that debate about me not knowing anybody who owns an
HDTV set that is not hooked up to HDTV. First I am glad that you finally got an
HD set and now see for yourself why HD viewers get hooked, and stop watching
SD programs for good. I was talking to a young fellow with a young family
who asked me for advice about buying an HDTV. He currently had Comcast
basic analog cable, paying about $13 per month. They wanted a new TV to hang on the wall in the living room. Were on the fence about getting a 42 inch or 50 inch plasma. To them money was a big consideration. However prices are dropping fast. I recommended 50 inch because of 1365 X 768 resolution versus 1024 x 768 and the HD experience is more enhanced with at least a 50 inch. They said that they did not really want to spend the extra money and get expanded basic digital cable, so I told them about OTA. They were flabbergasted, but very excited that it was free. They generally watch FOX, ABC, etc. Well they got the TV and an OTA antenna and they are hooked on HD. Not viewing SD anymore. Luckily
my area is a very rich OTA area (can get Phila and NY). Not all of the US is.
In 2009, when the OTA digital signal goes VHF (big boost in signal strength),
many many more people will realize that HD is available for free and they
will all stop watching SD.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

The whole thing I hate about the Dish hd metallic packs is that they force you to spend more for hd then you would want to. About $20.00 more. THen there is the hd enabeling fees if you want to just get you own FREE ota hd stations and no metallic stations. THey got you coming and going. I tried to consider just AEP where I would get my premium stations like Hbo /Showtime/STarz in HD , but I would have to pay $6.00 more to get my locals ota plus my locals in hd from Dish too. This would come to 95.99 a month vs paying 104.99 a month for all the rest of the hd stations like Voom Universal etc . So for $9.00 more you get the other 27 stations. Not bad for 72 hd stations and it makes you want to sub to it for the value alone. 

If you want hd ota and say americas top 120 - you end up paying for the hd enabeling fee for ota locals and your dish hd locals and then you get hit with the dvr fees at 5.98 a receiver. I have two of the 622s so it would get quite expensive in fees to "save" myself money by not subbing to the metallic packs. So you either pay the fees or take the programming . Dish pushes you to sub to the Platinum to escape the fees and get the most for your money. YOu do get the hd stations for 15.00 more with the Platinum pack vs the others where you pay $20.00. 

I can't see my parents ever wanting to go to the metallic packs and the 622 receiver because of the extra money for hd stations and for the hd enabeling fee etc. It would cost them $20.00 more than what they pay now and my dad thinks he pays to much now for the top 180 with locals -no hd.


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## norton54 (Feb 2, 2006)

dartonviper said:


> As an installer I always tell people that they will find themselves watching programs that they never thought they would watch. The picture quality speaks for itself!


This may be true....at first.... but after the intial wow factor wears off it's a different story. Now the only thing I watch in HD is sporting events and the occasional discoveryHD program that I haven't already seen. Voom channels suck as does TNT, UNI,HBO. Switch back and forth between National Geo. HD and standard and there is NO difference except for one is widescreen. All in all I think HD is a bunch of overrated hype and DISH network is way overpriced. JMO.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I agree with Norton54, after the WOW factor wears off, you only watch the
HD shows that you want to watch. You do not surf HD or SD (at all).

To respond to nospmahm do not subscribe to an HD package unless there are
channels that you are going to watch. There is a lot of HD content and many people like myself who have had HD for at least 18 months, watch only HD programming. But you have to ask yourself what do I watch now? Do I just watch network stuff, ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, etc. Do I watch sports that are not on the
networks? For me the primary reason for getting HD was to watch sports. However, I am also a fan of about 12 network shows (ABC, FOX, CBS and NBC)
that are in HD. With regard to the 12 network shows, I record them OTA onto
a Sony HDD 500 and watch them when I have time. I have a DISH 622 but I
really do not need it to watch the networks in HD. Luckily I live in a rich OTA area.
I watch HBO on sunday nights and a lot of times I record the show because I am
not home or I am watching sports. So I need a 622 for that. Since sports is
my number one viewing, I watch ESPNHD and ESPN2HD when there is a game on that I want to see. If I only watch five games a year on ESPN2HD, it is still worthwhile for me to have it and I would subscribe to an HD pack just to get
ESPN2HD. I watch TNT HD when there is an NBA game on that I want to see.
And again, if I only watch 5 NBA games a year on TNTHD, it is still worth it for me
to subscribe to an HD pack. If you are an NFL fan which I am, now that
Monday night football is on ESPN and there will be about 8 games on the
NFL HD network, an HD pack is worth it to me. 

Unfortunately, Dish does not have Regional Sports Networks in HD. In fact 
Dish is the only multi video provider in my area that does not provice RSNs in HD.
So I have not been able to cancel my cable TV HD subscription. Cable gives me
YES HD (Yankees and New Jersey Nets), SNY HD(New York Mets), and INHD which
has three major league baseball games a week in HD, HD Versus ice hockey and
HD NBATV. These three channels are more important to me than any channel
in the Dish HD packages. 

So if you do not watch sports on TV or HBO and are not interested in the other Dish HD channels, I would not subscribe to a Dish HD package. It sounds to me
that you are interested in only the networks in HD. It is well worth getting the networks in HD and after 18 months, you will only be watching HD content. I would try to figure out the cheapest way to get the networks in HD. Is OTA
available in your area? OTA is free. Does your basic digital cable service give you
the networks in HD? Does Dish have HD locals in your area? Do you have to
get a Dish HD pack to get HD locals?

In my case, I am paying for two sources of HD (Dish and cable) and am getting
one source free (OTA). I have had HD for 33 months. Verizon is going to begin providing service in the next couple of months in my town. So I will have a choice
of four providers for HD (Dish, Directv, Verizon and cable). My county in NJ, qualifies
for five RSNs, CSN-Phila, YES, SNY, MSG and FSNY. Comcast and Cablevision are
providing all five RSNs. Verizon will probably provide all five RSNs. Dish and Directv
are blocked form providing CSN-Phila. In early 2007, I will most likely cancel either
Dish or cable and sign up with just one multi video provider that provides the HD RSNs that I want to watch. Other than the HD RSNs, there is not that much diffference in the HD channel lineups between all four multivideo providers (Dish, Directv, Cable and Verizon) when I consider what HD channels I actually watch. Another influencing factor for me will be "triple play". Right now I have Verizon for phone, cable for high speed internet and Dish and cable for HDTV. I will most likely go to one provider for telephone, high speed internet and HDTV. The only way I would have more than one provider in the future would be if another HDTV provider offered an HD sports channel that I could not get.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Nospmahm,
According to antennaweb.org, Savannah has six digital stations within about
14 miles of zip code 31401. You should be able to pick up HD feeds of ABC, NBC,
CBS, FOX, CW and PBS probably with an indoor amplified antenna. No reason to
sign up for a Dish HD pack unless you really want an HD channel that is only
available on cable or satellite (not OTA). Make sure your new HDTV has a built in digital tuner (ATSC). Starting in 2007, all TV's over 27 inches or more are required to have
a digital tuner.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Hound said:


> Starting in 2007, all TV's over 27 inches or more are required to have a digital tuner.


That kicked in to 100% this year for 25 and up, the next date is March 2007 for all tvs. It explains all the 24 inch tvs they have now.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks for the info kb7oeb


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## wendell (Dec 20, 2006)

Hound said:


> Nospmahm,
> According to antennaweb.org, Savannah has six digital stations within about
> 14 miles of zip code 31401. You should be able to pick up HD feeds of ABC, NBC,
> CBS, FOX, CW and PBS probably with an indoor amplified antenna. No reason to
> ...


Just because they are digital does not mean they broadcast in HD. There is conflicting information about HD in Savannah. I have recently read that none of the stations broadcast in HD and also that only NBC and CBS do.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Additionally, not all TV's are TV's - If that thing with a 61 inch picture on it has no tuner in it at all, it is a monitor, not a TV, and I don't think monitors are requited to have any type of tuner - BE CAREFUL!


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