# Software Update HR20: 0x108



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

New Software 12/12/2006
Manufacture 700 - 0x108

Release Notes: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72913

*PLEASE DON"T POST... DIDN'T GET IT, or GOT IT tracking posts in this thread, they will be deleted*

*Extended Staggered Rollout:* Small subset of users first (mostly Pacific Timezone), then a gradual increaes of the user base. primarily by timezones. Being that this is such a large release, it make take several days for everyone to receive the update. Please don't ask why you don't have the update, unless you see an update that the release has gone national; and you don't have the release yet.

*Tracking Threads* We will continue with the tracking threads for problems with this release: See Post #2

*The more detail the better* Simply put... the more detail you can provide the better the feedback.

*Special Sub-Feature Discussion Threads*
The updated/new Record menu items - *Discussion*
The updated History feature - *Discussion*
The OTA/ATSC feature - *Discussion*
The ViiV feature - *Discussion*

*Revision History:*
Version 0x104 (12/06/2006): *Discussion Thread* _Note: Was not released nationally_ 
Version 0xFA (11/22/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xF6 (11/21/2006): *Discussion Thread* _Note: Was not released nationally_
Version 0xEF (11/15/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xEB (11/07/2006): *Discussion Thread* _Note: Was not released nationally_
Version 0xE3 (10/19/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xDC (10/11/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xD8 (10/04/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xD1 (09/26/2006): *Discussion Thread*
Version 0xCC (09/16/2006): *Discussion Thread Issue Thread*
Version 0xBE (09/01/2006): *Discussion Thread Issue Thread*

*The Original HR20 Review Thread*
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61862

*Tips and Tricks Threads*
Official Tips and Tricks
Unoffical Tips and Tricks v2.9

*Unoffical Feature Request Survey*
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=68183

*Unoffical eSATA Feature Discussion*
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66201


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Issue Holding Thread


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HDMI Issue: Please continue to report them, in this thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=70805


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PLEASE!!!!!

In this thread, do NOT discuss the OTA not going national, and this release comming out in it's place. If you want to discuss that, or vent, or what ever.... take it to another thread.... as this is not the place.


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## remlle (Aug 22, 2006)

how national was is this release? and is it staggered like the last one was? I know it is in San Antonio and LA, does anyone else seeing it other places? Im not home to check mine and see if I got it or not Im in da Lou. (st.louis mo) If I get it then wow today would be like xmas for me. my broken xbox 360 comes back and OTA what will I do first hmm what to do what to do.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

I'm glad to see the ethernet port is finally going to get a work out at least for some of us. I look forward to this and the continued expansion of LAN/Internet use.


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## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

Do they have anything like a schedule for this other than starting west and may move east? Like a zone map or planned dates?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

:eek2: Network with a Viiv computer huh? Hmmm, I may like this b/c I'd love to play mp3s through the stereo. Now, for me to figure out how to set this up is another story lol. My TW cable internet is nearby with my router like 4' away. Do I just plug into the router & go through a setup on the HR20?



P.s. I'm not as advanced as many of you, as I see many software developers and computer techs here. I'm not computer ignorant either. :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

remlle said:


> how national was is this release? and is it staggered like the last one was? I know it is in San Antonio and LA, does anyone else seeing it other places? Im not home to check mine and see if I got it or not Im in da Lou. (st.louis mo) If I get it then wow today would be like xmas for me. my broken xbox 360 comes back and OTA what will I do first hmm what to do what to do.


It is first going to those that had 0x104.
After it's initial period, it will be evaluated and then decided if it will go national or not.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The big question for me is going to be, when it says it will stream mp3s, does it specifically mean .mp3 files, or will there be support for other formats, specifically iTunes? I am not an iTunes user, I prefer Windows Media WMA for several reasons which are incredibly OT. The point is, though, without iTunes Fairplay/AAC support, I see only limited appeal. I cannot imagine someone so keyed up to stream audio from his computer that he would burn his entire iTunes collection onto CDs and re-rip them into .mp3 format just to do this.


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## remlle (Aug 22, 2006)

so with the VIIV computer addon do you have to have a VIIV or whats the deal with it? will there be some application to run on the computer with the music files?


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

yes you will need an Intel Viiv computer to use that feature of the HR20, should it ever be released nationally.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Strejcek said:


> Earl, where are we supposed to vent? Every other thread concerning this release has been redirected here. Guess you guys are tired of hearing about this  What I would like to know is, when are we going to get OTA? Sometime this month? Next year? Never? If you can let the rest of us less fortunate folk know what's going on. We're not lucky enough to live in CA or have your contacts at DTV, since you had OTA well before it was released the first time.


The "other" thread where redirected here, as they where talking about 0x108 as a release.

Please go ahead and start a new "venting" thread.

Sometime this month.... seriously.
The "purpose" of the staggered release, is to limit any introduced issues.
These are some pretty serious changes that went on underneath the GUI.

And yes, I know you all want OTA... and it is comming.
But the "threats" of dropping service, because they didn't get OTA yet (when it is just a week old)... You *WILL* get it...

And just a warning for the future....
This is how it has ALWAYS been... staggered rollouts. 
As the user base of the units grows, the rollouts are going to farther apart... and take longer to get there. Just the nature of the process.


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## HDtoshiba (Oct 19, 2006)

What are the Features of the New release??


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## Camaro305 (Sep 27, 2006)

HDtoshiba said:


> What are the Features of the New release??


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72913


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## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

Do we actually need a Viiv certified PC or just a Viiv certified device that is capable of serving music and photos in a Viiv'esque manner?

Intel is certifying all kinds of devices so perhaps we could see a Viiv Certified NAS in the future.


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## HDtoshiba (Oct 19, 2006)

So the only thing that they released is a worthless ViiV Networking feature. Why wouldn't they use a system that more people could actually use?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HDtoshiba said:


> So the only thing that they released is a worthless ViiV Networking feature. Why wouldn't they use a system that more people could actually use?


So it is worthless to you, because you can't use it.
Guess they shouldn't release OTA then... as it is worthless, because there is someone out there that can't use it.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

HDtoshiba said:


> So the only thing that they released is a worthless ViiV Networking feature. Why wouldn't they use a system that more people could actually use?


Probably because they have a deal with Intel, and as well it's easier to choose ONE STANDARD and work with it rather than every standard. Heck, even the HDMI standard is causing issues on so many TVs.

If you want the features, get a ViiV computer. If you don't (like me) don't worry about it. But if some do, why shouldn't D* do it?


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## SockMonkey (Aug 14, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> But if some do, why shouldn't D* do it?


I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, but for god's sake, fix some of the problems before releasing new features like this.  :nono2:

I just don't understand this decision. No wait, yeah I do... it's probably to please some upper management who needed to make a deadline to get his/her bonus.

Bob

P.S. My definition of "New feature" is something that is totally new. To me OTA is not totally new. It's just new to the HR20 and I agree with the decision to implement it while working on fixes to other items. Mainly because it is still the only option for some people to get HD locals.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sometime this month.... seriously.
> The "purpose" of the staggered release, is to limit any introduced issues.
> These are some pretty serious changes that went on underneath the GUI.


(See the support request in the final paragraph.)

It's unfortunate, given all the venting already done via these forums, that D*s release strategy seems calculated to give the maximum upset to those who are really providing a lot to help maximize the "testing" and "validating" of these releases. 104 comes out to a limited subset and holds (to the dismay of we many loyalists) and to top it off, without even a nod of thanks, 108 comes out to the same subset while we all do our thing in front of the wall (D* Wailing Wall, if you will).

Thanks for the "sometime this month" and thanks for your efforts, Earl. But I'm still wailing (that's one more step beyond whimpering and crying for those interested).

And finally, I'd like to repeat my request for D* to consider employing those who already use these forums to track, validate, test, and report (as well as to wail) and who VOLUNTEER to be first testers (most abused) as their first release pool rather than the poor unsuspecting of LA (or whatever remote corner that is) -- most of whom haven't reported (presumably not DBSTalk members) or perhaps haven't even noticed that they have the upgrade so many of us want. Could we perhaps have some support from the forums for this concept?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> Probably because they have a deal with Intel, and as well it's easier to choose ONE STANDARD and work with it rather than every standard.


There are standards for streaming media that are open, well-documented, stable and available cross-platform (Windows, OS X, Linux). Viiv was chosen for one real reason: DRM and content control.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

richlife said:


> And finally, I'd like to repeat my request for D* to consider employing those who already use these forums to track, validate, test, and report (as well as to wail) and who VOLUNTEER to be first testers (most abused) as their first release pool rather than the poor unsuspecting of LA (or whatever remote corner that is) -- most of whom haven't reported (presumably not DBSTalk members) or perhaps haven't even noticed that they have the upgrade so many of us want. Could we perhaps have some support from the forums for this concept?


We are working on that.... seriously.
It is not just something you do over night.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Viiv was chosen for one real reason: DRM and content control.


DRM and content control do not apply to sharing your pictures and music. The one real reason Viiv was chosen was money.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

qlanus said:


> Were there specific issues that 104 failed to fix (or were new ones introduced) that the 108 is attempting to resolve?


Yep, they were:

Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes
Additional stability fixes


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> DRM and content control do not apply to sharing your pictures and music. The one real reason Viiv was chosen was money.


You're not seeing the big picture. 0x108 adds pictures and music to the HR20 from the PC. Future releases will almost certainly allow data-sharing the other way.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Future releases will almost certainly allow data-sharing the other way.


I'll bet you this bold word > *NO* < that they will not.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> I'll bet you this bold word > NO < that they will not.


Yeah, and 0x104 was going to be the next national release.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Yeah, and 0x104 was going to be the next national release.


Nice way to try and divert the discussion.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

SockMonkey said:


> I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, but for god's sake, fix some of the problems before releasing new features like this.  :nono2:
> 
> I just don't understand this decision. No wait, yeah I do... it's probably to please some upper management who needed to make a deadline to get his/her bonus.
> 
> ...


Different teams work on different aspects of the box. I REALLY REALLY need Closed Captioning to be perfect. It should have been MONTHS ago. But just because they fix another bug first doesn't piss me off because I know there's a person or group of people working on the CC issue, and there's another team working on OTA and know that code but not really the CC code per se.

This is a group effort. Viiv was ready before something else people the people working on it got it done while other teams are working on other things and making different progress based on the issues that arise.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Nice way to try and divert the discussion.


It's not a diversion - it was a subtle reminder that your guarantees aren't worth as much as you seem to think. Content-protection is what it's all about for providers these days. Without appeasing the providers, D* is out of business. Enabling Viiv (and by definition disabling every other readily-available streaming-media devices and protocols) is just another step in the same direction. Sure money is involved - but it's money for content protection and DRM controls.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh Boy. 

Has anyone besides the venerable Mr. Bonovich actually received this update and tested it? I probably have, but I generally don't check for updates in the morning. 

While I completely sympathize with the folks who are angry as heck, I think we're all better off moving that sort of discussion to the "rant" thread and keeping this one for genuine issues found by those who have the release.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lamontcranston said:


> Oh Boy.
> 
> Has anyone besides the venerable Mr. Bonovich actually received this update and tested it? I probably have, but I generally don't check for updates in the morning.
> 
> While I completely sympathize with the folks who are angry as heck, I think we're all better off moving that sort of discussion to the "rant" thread and keeping this one for genuine issues found by those who have the release.


There have been a few, a few people started threads early this morning.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Sure money is involved - but it's money for content protection and DRM controls.


Which, again, doesn't explain why Viiv is being required for music and photos. Displaying your music and photos on the HR20 isn't even in the same league as transferring shows off of it, so even saying "The future capability will require Viiv, so they might as well just require it now." doesn't make sense. There's nothing to stop them from using UPnP for music and photos, and using Viiv-specific technology for show sharing. They are two completely separate functions.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> so even saying "The future capability will require Viiv, so they might as well just require it now." doesn't make sense.


It makes perfect MARKETING sense to equate media-sharing of ANY kind on the HR20 with Intel Viiv-based PCs from the get-go.


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## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

if they keep doing this, release to the west coast only, at one point those HR20s in other timezones will not be compatible with the current release and need to be re-fornmated the hard drives :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## iacas (Nov 18, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> There are standards for streaming media that are open, well-documented, stable and available cross-platform (Windows, OS X, Linux). Viiv was chosen for one real reason: DRM and content control.


I have hope that, as an owner of a dual 3 GHz (well, quad-core) Intel-based Mac Pro that, like we saw recently with TiVoDecode, I'll be able to use these features some day, because this hardware beats the snot out of some of the "ViiV-certified" rubbish that you can find at Best Buy.

Until then, eh, I haven't lost anything I had previously, so...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> It makes perfect MARKETING sense to equate media-sharing of ANY kind on the HR20 with Intel Viiv-based PCs from the get-go.


Exactly my point. That's why I'm saying the deal is all about money for DirecTV, not DRM.


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## Tom Strade (Jul 4, 2002)

I just bought an HR20 and will be hooking it up this weekend. I have no HD locals in my market yet so are hopeful that the OTA update is downloaded onto my HR20soon. That said, if I don't need MPEG4 locals, do I need the 5-LNB dish?

Thx


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## dconfer (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl,
I was just in D* forum and they took down the req for the Viiv system. Viiv 1.5 do you know if this still stands. My system only has 1.04 on it. I have been trying to download version 1.5 from Intel site but it keeps losing the connection. Any info you have on this would be greatly appreciated.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dconfer said:


> Earl,
> I was just in D* forum and they took down the req for the Viiv system. Viiv 1.5 do you know if this still stands. My system only has 1.04 on it. I have been trying to download version 1.5 from Intel site but it keeps losing the connection. Any info you have on this would be greatly appreciated.


DirecTV and Intel are working out the details on who is going to host what file where, and how to appropriate download the files.

It should return soon.... and yes, you will need 1.5 or higher.


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## dconfer (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl,
Just one more ? So if I get the update for my HR20 and get the Viiv 1.5 will this work or do I have to wait for D* to allow me to download something and put it on my pc.


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## bobojay (Jan 26, 2004)

Tom Strade said:


> I just bought an HR20 and will be hooking it up this weekend. I have no HD locals in my market yet so are hopeful that the OTA update is downloaded onto my HR20soon. That said, if I don't need MPEG4 locals, do I need the 5-LNB dish?
> 
> Thx


In one word, NO. But, you need to arrange with D* to get it installed for free now if you can just for the 2007 year new sats. that are going up. (hopefully!) More national HD content etc.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dconfer said:


> Earl,
> Just one more ? So if I get the update for my HR20 and get the Viiv 1.5 will this work or do I have to wait for D* to allow me to download something and put it on my pc.


If you have 0x108... that is all you will need from DirecTV.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> We are working on that.... seriously.
> It is not just something you do over night.


Well count me in as a volunteer! We are beta testing anyway...many of us would enjoy it Earl, thanks for bringing it to D*s attention.....


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> It makes perfect MARKETING sense to equate media-sharing of ANY kind on the HR20 with Intel Viiv-based PCs from the get-go.


I am siding with Lefty on this for the most part, however, Money is part of the whole equation. I think you two should see, that you are both correct. DRM is the driving force behind the decision to go with ViiV, however, that doesn't negate the "marketing value" for Intel and what are likely hords of cash exchanging hands in going exclusively with this technology.

Personally I think its a bad decision. I am not going to run out and buy a ViiV PC for this feature. In fact I will put off owning a ViiV PC as long as I possible can.

So D* is giving me another feature I can't (okay- won't) use.

DLB DLB DLB DLB


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, if nothing else, anything that turns on the ethernet port is a plus. Better than anything D* ever did with the DirecTivo's USB port, right?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> Well, if nothing else, anything that turns on the ethernet port is a plus. Better than anything D* ever did with the DirecTivo's USB port, right?


Agreed- Good Point.

(Though I am pretty sure that if you connected a USB Ethernet adapter to a DirecTivo, you could at least get an IP over DHCP, and I believe there are hacks out there to enable it, though I never got that ambitious.)


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> We are working on that.... seriously.
> It is not just something you do over night.


Not having been around that long, I don't know if an attempt to get these "serious" (maybe too "Serious") folks in a test list may have been started. I can offer another refinement also (this would help me get in near the top :lol: ) -- not only would these testers/validators be DBSTalk HR20 contributors who volunteer, but if there are too many volunteers to start with then prioritize with those most longtime committed to DirecTV (note my "from inception -- when was that, '92, '93?) and then most committed to HR20.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> The big question for me is going to be, when it says it will stream mp3s, does it specifically mean .mp3 files, or will there be support for other formats, specifically iTunes? I am not an iTunes user, I prefer Windows Media WMA for several reasons which are incredibly OT. The point is, though, without iTunes Fairplay/AAC support, I see only limited appeal. I cannot imagine someone so keyed up to stream audio from his computer that he would burn his entire iTunes collection onto CDs and re-rip them into .mp3 format just to do this.


I would imagine it will NOT support iTunes. UNLESS DTV strikes up some kind of agreement with Apple (not likely) I think we're out of luck.

Since the port is enabled for use with ViiV technology, I think that pretty much answers the above question. You'll probably need to run some kind of application on your ViiV PC in order to access the data from your PC.


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

Apple's using Intel processors, which I assume have viiv support. So if Intel wrote viiv software for the Mac it should work.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

bagleyb said:


> Apple's using Intel processors, which I assume have viiv support. So if Intel wrote viiv software for the Mac it should work.


Which post are you responding to?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

problably will require 1.6 then 1. 7, 1.8 by the time they are done... Thats a lot of new PCs :lol:


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

Yours. I don't think they need an agreement with Apple. They have the aggrement with Intel, who supplies Apple with chips. If the technology is in the chips, then why couldn't it be enabled on a Mac?


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## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

bagleyb said:


> Yours. I don't think they need an agreement with Apple. They have the aggrement with Intel, who supplies Apple with chips. If the technology is in the chips, then why couldn't it be enabled on a Mac?


Windows Media Center Edition is a requirement as of now.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

bagleyb said:


> Yours. I don't think they need an agreement with Apple. They have the aggrement with Intel, who supplies Apple with chips. If the technology is in the chips, then why couldn't it be enabled on a Mac?


Yes, if Macs are using Intel ViiV certified hardware and Intel writes ViiV software to run on OSX than you're correct. There's no reason why your Mac and HR-20 couldn't interface in harmony.

But the original question was whether or not you could stream iTunes content (which I assumed was .m4p files) to your HR-20. The HR-20 (at least in the near future) will not be able to decode the proprietary DRM Apple uses for content from the iTunes Music Store without some kind of a partnership with Apple.


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## monetnj (Sep 28, 2004)

From what I understand, the new intel chips Apple is using for their machines do in fact support ViiV. Apple is also working on an STB they are currently dubbing iTV, set to be announced in a few weeks at Macworld San Francisco. How this will integrate with current satellite STBs and other devices remains to be seen.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

lamontcranston said:


> The big question for me is going to be, when it says it will stream mp3s, does it specifically mean .mp3 files, or will there be support for other formats, specifically iTunes? I am not an iTunes user, I prefer Windows Media WMA for several reasons which are incredibly OT. The point is, though, without iTunes Fairplay/AAC support, I see only limited appeal. I cannot imagine someone so keyed up to stream audio from his computer that he would burn his entire iTunes collection onto CDs and re-rip them into .mp3 format just to do this.


VIIV PC machines should be able to convert most audio formats as long as the content is not protected including MP3, Wav, AAC,WMA


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

dvrblogger said:


> VIIV PC machines should be able to convert most audio formats as long as the content is not protected including MP3, Wav, AAC,WMA


Apple uses an AAC proprietary protected encoding codec. How's that for a mouth full?

Bummer!


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## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

All this Viiv stuff is fascinating - but the most important issue is:

Is "Pinky" still around?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

all I want to do is play my 30 gig of unprotected (taken from my cd colection) mp3s on my audio system... It should be able to browse and play unprotected content from ANY server.. I understand the need for video FROM the hr20 but ...
All I want to do is get rid of my huge 200 disk player...


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> I would imagine it will NOT support iTunes. UNLESS DTV strikes up some kind of agreement with Apple (not likely) I think we're out of luck.
> 
> Since the port is enabled for use with ViiV technology, I think that pretty much answers the above question. You'll probably need to run some kind of application on your ViiV PC in order to access the data from your PC.


It's going to be a gray area. MS worked around Apple to get iPod support into XBox360, but it does have the caveat that you can not play DRM protected content purchased from iTunes because in MS's words Apple would not share the information necessary to fully integrate the iPod and their DRM into the unit. It's really up to D* to get the info from Apple to make this fully work, and the only plus on their side is that D* isn't MS. Maybe Apple will play nicely


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## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

houskamp said:


> all I want to do is play my 30 gig of unprotected (taken from my cd colection) mp3s on my audio system... It should be able to browse and play unprotected content from ANY server.. I understand the need for video FROM the hr20 but ...


That would be nice - to just provide a nice interface to browse and play your own music collection. But maybe there's the need (future) to protect HD video going to the HR20 from a PC with HDDVD or BluRay.


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## Lfix2 (Dec 13, 2006)

What would be the problem with transfering hd content to the HR20?


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Lfix2 said:


> What would be the problem with transfering hd content to the HR20?


It's not an HR20 issue. The content providers want the communications channels for streaming of full HD content to be "secure". This is not so much secure as in providing encryption, but as in establishing secure trusted connections between very specific devices.

I can't remember the exact acronym for the protocol Intel is endorsing with ViiV, but it runs over standard IP networks and establishes an over-the-wire trusted connection between the content source and consumer. Both devices have to support the protocol, and both devices have to be used (normally) to establish the trust. In the ViiV case they even have logic that explicity excludes the ability to establish connections over anything other than your in-home network to further restrict the possibilities.

The most common thing done is for each device to generate a "key" that is used on the other device to establish the trust. Without this capability you could simply broadcast your HD content to any unknown device potentially over an unsecured network like the Internet.


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## Lfix2 (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks for the info Lewis


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Lfix2 said:


> Thanks for the info Lewis


No problem. The network protocol is DTCP-IP... Take a look here for more details on it: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/DTCP_IP.html

Theoretically anyone should be able to emulate the ViiV platform over the wire, but I don't believe anyone has yet.

The more interesting thing will be whether or not TPM (Trusted Platform Module) starts to come into play as D* looks at their tuner card. This is a key component of Vista for supporting their drive encryption with BitLocker, and I would not be surprised to see it come into play more as more and more PCs have support built in for it.


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## deuce01 (Oct 11, 2006)

Hey Earl,
Do you or anyone else know if the HR20 will remain ViiV compliant only or if they will ever allow just Windows Media Center for connectivity?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

deuce01 said:


> Hey Earl,
> Do you or anyone else know if the HR20 will remain ViiV compliant only or if they will ever allow just Windows Media Center for connectivity?


There is always a chance... but for now... ViiV only.


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## rgc1042 (Dec 13, 2006)

I got the release of 0x108 but my question is, will it fix the problems with play back? Four times since the release of 0x104 I have set a program to record only to have it freeze up when I tried to play it back. After trying every button combination I could find, I end up at the screen ' Delete Yes or No '. Pressing No does not do any good. If I try to play it back it goes straight to the Delete Yes or No screen. It happened with CSI last Thur. and NCIS and the Unit last night. This was happening before 0x104 but I had some success with skipping to the first tic mark and then back spacing to the beginning.

By the way: for those of you waiting for OTA

You may be disapointed. There are still only 2 tuners and STILL only 1 buffer.
At least when I had the OTA plugged directly into the TV I could record 2 programs and watch live progmming OTA for a total of 3 simultaneous channels.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

rgc1042 said:


> You may be disapointed. There are still only 2 tuners and STILL only 1 buffer.
> At least when I had the OTA plugged directly into the TV I could record 2 programs and watch live progmming OTA for a total of 3 simultaneous channels.


Just split out the antenna line and run it to the TV and also to the HR20. Bingo, 3 simultaneous channels.


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

rgc1042 said:


> By the way: for those of you waiting for OTA
> 
> You may be disapointed. There are still only 2 tuners and STILL only 1 buffer.
> At least when I had the OTA plugged directly into the TV I could record 2 programs and watch live progmming OTA for a total of 3 simultaneous channels.


Of course there are only 2 tuners. There are only 2 buffers. If you need to record 2 and watch a 3rd live, you should be splitting the OTA feed into the TV as well...

[edit]lamont is just... too... fast


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## thread (Nov 26, 2006)

I just hope there are bug fixes in this release as well. Like say for the aforementioned immediate delete prompt or for the more annoying the it's recording a program I want to watch from the beginning but won't let me it just stays at 0:00 no matter what I do and SOMETIMES after it's done recording I can reset it and watch the program but more often than not it does not work.

I can live with this a bit but the thing crossed a line with my wife when she missed 1/2 of the amazing race finale because of this. She's ready to throw it out. I'm seeing progress made but, my wifes happiness comes first.

Hopefully this release addresses that.


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## rgc1042 (Dec 13, 2006)

Meklos said:


> Of course there are only 2 tuners. There are only 2 buffers. If you need to record 2 and watch a 3rd live, you should be splitting the OTA feed into the TV as well...
> 
> [edit]lamont is just... too... fast


I don't know about your DVR but my HR20 has 2 tuners but only I buffer.


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

rgc1042 said:


> I don't know about your DVR but my HR20 has 2 tuners but only I buffer.


I guess I meant 'best case'...

But that brings up an interesting point... at any one moment in time, the two tuners could / probably are viewing different streams of data. If I happened to know which two channels were being viewed at 10:00, could I then wait til 10:30 and hit (R) on those two channels? If so, would one or both of them have pre-10:30 data?


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## ebisads (Dec 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you have 0x108... that is all you will need from DirecTV.


not to slam you earl, but the time is "that is all we need" we always get hit with and this... and this ...... from all electronic makers


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> Well, if nothing else, anything that turns on the ethernet port is a plus. Better than anything D* ever did with the DirecTivo's USB port, right?


I still have one as my backup for my HR20, and I don't remember them ever activating the USB ports for anything. Actually, my old RCS D* receiver had dummy USB ports as well. Will they ever use these?


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## ebisads (Dec 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> We are working on that.... seriously.
> It is not just something you do over night.


it could be done faster, directv just does not priortize things correctly


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## ebisads (Dec 8, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> There are standards for streaming media that are open, well-documented, stable and available cross-platform (Windows, OS X, Linux). Viiv was chosen for one real reason: DRM and content control.


partially, the main reason is

"BIG BROTHER" now before I am listed as slamming on GR20 and not TIVO.. TIVO does have "BIG BROTHER" FEATURES built in to it, BUT not as far reaching as hr20's will be....


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## mrshermanoaks (Aug 27, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> Oh Boy.
> 
> Has anyone besides the venerable Mr. Bonovich actually received this update and tested it? I probably have, but I generally don't check for updates in the morning.


Yes, I've got it. I went to the Setup menu, and there was an item on there for Network. When I selected it, there was an option to "Connect Now". I selected it and it failed - ooops, forgot I had borrowed back that ethernet cable. Plugged the cable in, and selected the "Get connected". There was a nice little tutorial as to what the wiring should look like, with the router and everything. There was an option regarding a "Wireless", but I didn't select it and can't get back to it right now. This time, with the cord connected, it got a DHCP address from my router and told me my connection was good.

Once it was setup, the Network setup panel allows me to test my connection, repeat the setup process, or go to Advanced Setup, which lets me set manual network settings.

Now that it's setup, I have no idea how to actually share music and photos from my PC. Don't know if my computer is Viiv - maybe if it was I'd see some other option. But at the moment I don't see anything else that's different.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mrshermanoaks said:


> There was a nice little tutorial as to what the wiring should look like, with the router and everything. There was an option regarding a "Wireless", but I didn't select it and can't get back to it right now.


Hmmm... I am going to have to try that tonight (force fail the connection), and see what that Wireless option is all about..


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

lguvenoz said:


> It's not an HR20 issue. The content providers want the communications channels for streaming of full HD content to be "secure". This is not so much secure as in providing encryption, but as in establishing secure trusted connections between very specific devices.
> 
> I can't remember the exact acronym for the protocol Intel is endorsing with ViiV, but it runs over standard IP networks and establishes an over-the-wire trusted connection between the content source and consumer. Both devices have to support the protocol, and both devices have to be used (normally) to establish the trust. In the ViiV case they even have logic that explicity excludes the ability to establish connections over anything other than your in-home network to further restrict the possibilities.
> 
> The most common thing done is for each device to generate a "key" that is used on the other device to establish the trust. Without this capability you could simply broadcast your HD content to any unknown device potentially over an unsecured network like the Internet.


I understand the need to protect copyrights, but the media owners have been taking all these incremental steps. If they really want to stop piracy, just don't release any movies or music. If we don't hear it or see it, it won't get pirated. The copyrights will be completely secure, and we won't have any music or movies. The consumer gets sc%#@ed as usual, and the media owners will face no risk at all.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

This thread from Earl should help:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72947



mrshermanoaks said:


> Yes, I've got it. I went to the Setup menu, and there was an item on there for Network. When I selected it, there was an option to "Connect Now". I selected it and it failed - ooops, forgot I had borrowed back that ethernet cable. Plugged the cable in, and selected the "Get connected". There was a nice little tutorial as to what the wiring should look like, with the router and everything. There was an option regarding a "Wireless", but I didn't select it and can't get back to it right now. This time, with the cord connected, it got a DHCP address from my router and told me my connection was good.
> 
> Once it was setup, the Network setup panel allows me to test my connection, repeat the setup process, or go to Advanced Setup, which lets me set manual network settings.
> 
> Now that it's setup, I have no idea how to actually share music and photos from my PC. Don't know if my computer is Viiv - maybe if it was I'd see some other option. But at the moment I don't see anything else that's different.


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## mrshermanoaks (Aug 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmmm... I am going to have to try that tonight (force fail the connection), and see what that Wireless option is all about..


I got back there by unplugging my ethernet, doing a "Restore Defaults", and trying to set it up again. Basically it just changes the picture to show your ethernet cable plugged into a wireless network adapter. Same with the "Powerline" button, shows your ethernet cable plugged into a powerline adapter.

Well, not only are none of my computers Viiv-compatible, but I can't really find any computers for sale that are... Got to say this seems a little strange to release this feature that virtually no one can access. Oh well.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mrshermanoaks said:


> I got back there by unplugging my ethernet, doing a "Restore Defaults", and trying to set it up again. Basically it just changes the picture to show your ethernet cable plugged into a wireless network adapter. Same with the "Powerline" button, shows your ethernet cable plugged into a powerline adapter.
> 
> Well, not only are none of my computers Viiv-compatible, but I can't really find any computers for sale that are... Got to say this seems a little strange to release this feature that virtually no one can access. Oh well.


Thanks for the update, I do recall the "help" pages.

As for ViiV for sale, I know Gateway sells them (one as low as $599).
HP had them for a while, Dell has some (XPS series I think)... And almost positive Sony Laptops for a while.. (have checked recently)

From some "feedback" in another thread.. try installing Media Player v11
Might work.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for ViiV for sale, I know Gateway sells them (one as low as $599).
> HP had them for a while, Dell has some (XPS series I think)... And almost positive Sony Laptops for a while.. (have checked recently)
> From some "feedback" in another thread.. try installing Media Player v11
> Might work.


Had to look too. I got a Pentium D last fall. I went to Intel & the "dual core" or "core duo" are the ViiV processors, but not all. If you know what processor you have & do a google, you can find if yours is or isn't. I think I "got lucky" not knowing what ViiV was then.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

EARL,
Any chance the new update will be released to us tonight, or will it be another week before we get another crack at it???


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jamielee said:


> EARL,
> Any chance the new update will be released to us tonight, or will it be another week before we get another crack at it???


Head on down to the mall and ask Santa..
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72983


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## krkeeton (Oct 25, 2006)

That sounds good to me. I will take the risk. Santa has never let me down before


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## bgullicksen (Oct 1, 2006)

If you go to the Intel VIIV site, there is a software tool you can download to see if your PC is VIIV compatible. You have to have the correct processor, motherboard chipset, Intel Audio, Intel NIC and a host of other compatible options. Gateway, Dell, HP, etc. offer systems that are compatible, but not all of their offerings are. You have to be very specific if you buy one.



veryoldschool said:


> Had to look too. I got a Pentium D last fall. I went to Intel & the "dual core" or "core duo" are the ViiV processors, but not all. If you know what processor you have & do a google, you can find if yours is or isn't. I think I "got lucky" not knowing what ViiV was then.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

Earl, could you review or direct us to the thread reviewing how to force a download? 

And is my understanding correct that forcing it again brings you back to oxfa?

IF OTA is not a priority for me would you still reccomend forcing a download


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jheda said:


> Earl, could you review or direct us to the thread reviewing how to force a download?
> 
> And is my understanding correct that forcing it again brings you back to oxfa?
> 
> IF OTA is not a priority for me would you still reccomend forcing a download


Reboot your system.... On the first screen, enter 0 2 4 6 8 on your remote.

From my understanding as well, you can go back to 0xFA if you force it again.

If OTA is not important to you, and if you don't have a ViiV computer (or don't want the sharing features)... then i wouldn't force it.


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## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

:sunsmile:



Earl Bonovich said:


> We are working on that.... seriously.
> It is not just something you do over night.


I appreciate that, that would allow some of us who would love to test/document process and drive a beta unit to go from being innocent bystanders to contributing members of the "team".

We really are stuck feeling like somthing is being done to us, not with us. Of course this could have been limited by not releasing a product in development but we are over that bridge now. Your posts help keep us out of the dark and with out this forum I was more and more excited about this issue. Now I feel that by posting I am at least letting D know what I am hoping to have happen. It is a nice change of pace for me to be on this side of the IT world at least part of the day.

D*TV Let us help.

Ok, now we sit in a circle round a fire and sing Kum Ba Yah!

But seriously folks, who do you have to cuddle to get an early upgrade to 0 x108


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Reboot your system.... On the first screen, enter 0 2 4 6 8 on your remote.
> 
> From my understanding as well, you can go back to 0xFA if you force it again.
> 
> If OTA is not important to you, and if you don't have a ViiV computer (or don't want the sharing features)... then i wouldn't force it.


udaman.........da bears, da earl!


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## hsreed4 (Oct 31, 2006)

Slip Jigs said:


> All this Viiv stuff is fascinating - but the most important issue is:
> 
> Is "Pinky" still around?


I can't seem to find pinky. The banner looks a little more opaque now.


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## S. DiThomas (Oct 8, 2006)

Ok. Saw it this AM 2:45 as always. 

I am in the lucky "tester" time zone I guess here in So. Cal. I was excited to see the networking (not connected symbol) but after realizing that it only is useful for VIIV PC's my bubble burst.

Any ideas if the network connection has any other present uses?

The one sat connection box is working on manual record ok now - quick 15 minutes of news this AM. No really big changes at first glance. Pauses and restarts of live TV are a bit slow but they work reliably now.

More to report this evening. 

Hope Santa is good to y'all. :feelbette 

Rember 02468 before you nog.
I am curious to see how the rest of the country does with OTA.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmmm... I am going to have to try that tonight (force fail the connection), and see what that Wireless option is all about..


If you setup a wireless access point with ethernet you should be able to use HR20. They key is to plug it into a laptop or other device , configure it and then use hr20 just to get the IP address.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

S. DiThomas said:


> Ok. Saw it this AM 2:45 as always.
> 
> I am in the lucky "tester" time zone I guess here in So. Cal. I was excited to see the networking (not connected symbol) but after realizing that it only is useful for VIIV PC's my bubble burst.
> 
> ...


on the other thread there are links to VIIV hacks and reports of success with Windows Media 11 on XP and Vista under VIIV networking main thread.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Earl, on one of your pictures it says "your receiver is now connected to DirecTV." With this new connection eliminate the need for a phone line?

Thanks.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Earl, on one of your pictures it says "your receiver is now connected to DirecTV." With this new connection eliminate the need for a phone line?


From what Earl has said, so far no. All it does at the moment is ping directv.com when you initiate a connection test.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

theratpatrol said:


> Earl, on one of your pictures it says "your receiver is now connected to DirecTV." With this new connection eliminate the need for a phone line?
> 
> Thanks.


Not at this time...
Plus how else would yet get CallerID on the screen?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Nothing else to report. 0x108 downloaded this morning and apparently my wife has been using it without incident all day. I don't have a Viiv-enabled computer or a wireless access point yet, so I can't say if that stuff works, but apparently everything else is hunky dory. 

Haven't seen ol' Pinky yet, but I'll let ya know.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not at this time...
> Plus how else would yet get CallerID on the screen?


Well they should fix it so it does, for PPV, etc. And I don't need caller ID since I don't have a home phone line.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Please continue 0x108 discussion in the restart thread.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72999


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