# 942 OTA reception



## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi. I set up an antenna and first connected it right to my TV. I scanned for channels and received a few HD channels.
Then I connected it to the 942 and scanned and received nothing! Not even SD channels. I double checked my set up....
Whats up with that?
Thanks


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

You should be able to get the 4 main networks. What type of set do you currently have, what type of antenna. Make sure your connection is correct on the back of the 942. Your stations appear to be fairly close, could be wrong on that. Are you using a preamp. Also manually add CBS at channel 41 and see if the bar turns green and locks. I think the rest are:
NBC-54
ABC-16
Fox-42


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

I have the Zenith Silver Sensor and a Samsung plasma. All they stations are in the same general distance, just slightly different directions. I am using a preamp, but haven't tried turning up the gain. 
I will try manually adding the stations tonight.
Thanks


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

Jeff McClellan said:


> You should be able to get the 4 main networks. What type of set do you currently have, what type of antenna. Make sure your connection is correct on the back of the 942. Your stations appear to be fairly close, could be wrong on that. Are you using a preamp. Also manually add CBS at channel 41 and see if the bar turns green and locks. I think the rest are:
> NBC-54
> ABC-16
> Fox-42


NBC 8.1 is broadcast 7
CBS 3.1 is broadcast 2
PBS 35.1 is broadcast 11
I don't know the others from memory, but they do not match Jeff's post. The others are all UHF. They can be found at antennaweb.org.
8.1 should be very strong. Aim the antenna just east of south. 3.1 will be a problem potentially.

p.s. I am in Grand Rapids using a 942.


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

I expected CBS to be a problem. But I am really wondering why the 942's auto scan did not pick up anything.
So you have to enter the channels by the frequency assignment number listed oin antennaweb?


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Antknee said:


> Hi. I set up an antenna and first connected it right to my TV. I scanned for channels and received a few HD channels.
> Then I connected it to the 942 and scanned and received nothing! Not even SD channels. I double checked my set up....
> Whats up with that?
> Thanks


I think almost any STB or TV's internal digital receiver will pick up more signals than the 942. Even the 811 was better at showing distant signal activity than the 942 and it was pretty bad.

Although marketed as having OTA digital (and now analog) capability, it's not in Dish's best business interest to help you get a lot of OTA reception. If it wasn't for competition, they wouldn't provide any OTA capability.

Why would they want to help you get free something that will directly compete with what they want to sell you?


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Had a feeling mine might be wrong. Turn up the gain and see what happens. You may need to get your antenna higher. But the first thing is to get a lock so you know everything else is fine.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

waltinvt said:


> Although marketed as having OTA digital (and now analog) capability, it's not in Dish's best business interest to help you get a lot of OTA reception. If it wasn't for competition, they wouldn't provide any OTA capability.


I disagree. Features which help Dish to compete in the marketplace are very much in their business interest. People want their local channels in high def, and if Dish can't provide them, cable can. The notion that Dish would intentionally provide a poor user experience with OTA reception since they can't charge for it is preposterous.


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## datwell (Jan 26, 2005)

Yup - us too. The ATSC tuner in our Sony is more sensitive than that of our 942. Our OTA reception is problematic at best however and we will be very happy when E* offers our HD locals (Washington, DC).

--Doug


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

Antknee said:


> I expected CBS to be a problem. But I am really wondering why the 942's auto scan did not pick up anything.
> So you have to enter the channels by the frequency assignment number listed oin antennaweb?


I agree with others that the 942 tuner is not as sensitive as some others. However, I did automatic scan and pick up about 16 digital stations from SE Grand Rapids.

One key is whether the antenna is directional. Mine is omni-directional. With a directional antenna and rotor, you would have to re-aim in about four directions and add chnnels manually or do a number of auto-scans.

I have inadvertently become way more knowledgeable about antennas in our area than I ever intended to be. PM if there's anything I can do to help.

Brian


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

Zephyr,
The ant is directional. I was considering getting the omni-directional disc type of antenna, but people have told me to stay away form omni's. 
How is yours working?


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

Antknee said:


> Zephyr,
> The ant is directional. I was considering getting the omni-directional disc type of antenna, but people have told me to stay away form omni's.
> How is yours working?


Mine is an "area special." It consists of three booms with a number of elements on each. The booms are pointed at the major transmitter tower clusters. It is very large, basically looking like 3 antennas on one pole. Purchased at Stadium Electronics on Plainfied NE, N of 4 mile.

You need a large antenna to receive the three digital channels that broadcast in VHF (3.1, 8.1 and 35.1), so a small indoor antenna or disc will not work.

The alternative is to use a large directional antenna with a rotor. A preamp may or may not be needed, depending on your exact location and the length of the cable feed. A preamp definitely will not be needed for 8.1.


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

Oh, I talked to them, but they wanted $350 for the ant and install..... Plus it looks nasty... according to my wife!


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

Antknee said:


> Oh, I talked to them, but they wanted $350 for the ant and install..... Plus it looks nasty... according to my wife!


It does indeed look ugly. But it works. Installed mine myself in the attic. Having done that, I'm thinking the $350 wasn't so bad after all. Then they are accountable for the reception working.


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

Right, that what I was thinking the value of them installing would be. I am thinking it would work in the attic also. If that little indoor antenna pulled in a few HD channels from the basement I dpon't see why not.


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Bichon said:


> I disagree. Features which help Dish to compete in the marketplace are very much in their business interest. People want their local channels in high def, and if Dish can't provide them, cable can. The notion that Dish would intentionally provide a poor user experience with OTA reception since they can't charge for it is preposterous.


It's a two edged sword. They provide the OTA capability because the competition does but then they're also competing with themselves when they try to market LiLs (Only SD now, maybe HD down the road).

I suppose another angle might be: If they design their OTA tuners to only register the stronger signals, it's more likely what signals it does bring in will lock and be less problematic - the theory being they'll have fewer customer service tech calls.

In any event, it's just my own personal theory which I've based on my own experience with the 811 & 942 plus the amount of "signal problem" posts. That and the fact that Dish won't pass on embeded PSIP epg data.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

waltinvt said:


> It's a two edged sword. They provide the OTA capability because the competition does but then they're also competing with themselves when they try to market LiLs (Only SD now, maybe HD down the road).


My guess is that if they are ever able to carry HD locals nationally, they'll drop OTA support on their receivers. Right now, they need that OTA high def capability to compete with cable.



> I suppose another angle might be: If they design their OTA tuners to only register the stronger signals, it's more likely what signals it does bring in will lock and be less problematic - the theory being they'll have fewer customer service tech calls.


I guess I'm not big on conspiracy theories. I choose to believe that the OTA tuner on the Broadcom chip in the 942 simply isn't as good as the one in the 811 and in many TVs, and that the Dish engineers are doing their best to tweak every bit of performance out of it.



> In any event, it's just my own personal theory which I've based on my own experience with the 811 & 942 plus the amount of "signal problem" posts. That and the fact that Dish won't pass on embeded PSIP epg data.


As for PSIP, I believe there are some serious design and technical challenges into integrating two different guide sources into the same product.


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

Whatever the reason, it is a very poor implementation. I'm sure it doesn't cost that much more to simply include a chip that does a decent job. 
It definitely is the 942 and not my antenna that is making the reception of OTA signals poor. When I connect the antenna directly to the TV, it works fine. But then I can't record those channels, so I am not a happy customer, simple as that.


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Bichon said:


> <snip....> I choose to believe that the OTA tuner on the Broadcom chip in the 942 simply isn't as good as the one in the 811 and in many TVs


Isn't that about what I said?



Bichon said:


> , and that the Dish engineers are doing their best to tweak every bit of performance out of it.


I still don't believe that's very high on Dish's priority list but I may be wrong.



Bichon said:


> As for PSIP, I believe there are some serious design and technical challenges into integrating two different guide sources into the same product.


That may be the case but why not start with what the FCC is mandating minumim standards for first, (so everyone gets at least some epg info) then work on intergrating whatever else they need. I'm sorry but I still think this really boils down to $$$.

Think about it. Dish markets the 942 as OTA capable but when you get your OTA HD networks, Dish then tells you :
"Sorry but we're going to restrict your access to the PSIP stream, so if you want an epg, you'll have to buy our locals package even though we realize that since you receive them OTA, you probably have no desire for our analog locals but we want you to pay for them anyway because we believe we can get away with taking away something the FCC mandates every station supply and then charge you to replace it with our own."


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## Mike Johnson (Jan 16, 2005)

waltinvt said:


> IThat may be the case but why not start with what the FCC is mandating minumim standards for first, (so everyone gets at least some epg info) then work on intergrating whatever else they need. I'm sorry but I still think this really boils down to $$$.


The FCC does mandate that broadcasters transmit PSIP, but there is no requirement that receiver manufacturers make use of the data (which I think is wrong.) My Sony HDTV only displays program info for the current program. It makes no use of the 9 days of program guide info that my station transmits.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

waltinvt said:


> Think about it. Dish markets the 942 as OTA capable but when you get your OTA HD networks, Dish then tells you :
> "Sorry but we're going to restrict your access to the PSIP stream, so if you want an epg, you'll have to buy our locals package even though we realize that since you receive them OTA, you probably have no desire for our analog locals but we want you to pay for them anyway because we believe we can get away with taking away something the FCC mandates every station supply and then charge you to replace it with our own."


"... and even though we already extract a DVR fee from you which we say includes NBR."
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/dvr/index.shtml


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