# 921 Discontinued?



## pistoff (Mar 7, 2006)

Im so mad! I called Dishnetwork to add more HD channels and they said I could not recieve the channels anymore with the 921 reciever. I cant believe it. I paid $999 less than two years ago and now it junk. Im even more suprised that they wont do anything for me. Like switch it out for a current model ($299). I have been a long time customer and I get no love. Any advice on what to do? Directv?


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Have you tried "CSR Roulette"?

What programming were you trying to add? If it was HD programming it's true you cannot add new programming because the new HD channels are in MPEG4. The 921 cannot handle MPEG4 encoded channels.

OTOH, if you were trying to add SD programming there is no reason for E* to deny your addition (why they would is beyond me). Again I believe you just got an ill-informed CSR. 

Bottom lilne - try again.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

pistoff said:


> Im so mad! I called Dishnetwork to add more HD channels and they said I could not recieve the channels anymore with the 921 reciever. I cant believe it. I paid $999 less than two years ago and now it junk. Im even more suprised that they wont do anything for me. Like switch it out for a current model ($299). I have been a long time customer and I get no love. Any advice on what to do? Directv?


April first you will be able to get a ViP622 in exchange for the 921 for $99. That will include the Dish1000 that you need to get the new HD channels.


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## pistoff (Mar 7, 2006)

Michael P said:


> Have you tried "CSR Roulette"?
> 
> What programming were you trying to add? If it was HD programming it's true you cannot add new programming because the new HD channels are in MPEG4. The 921 cannot handle MPEG4 encoded channels.
> 
> ...


I was trying to add HDTV programming. I guess I dont understand why the reciever cant be software upgraded. What a waste.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

pistoff said:


> I was trying to add HDTV programming. I guess I dont understand why the reciever cant be software upgraded. What a waste.


Can you software upgrade you Std-Def DVD player to play HD DVDs?
How about a Civic into a Corvette?

The hardware inside the 921 is simply incapable of doing what your asking.

We saw this coming for a long time. We knew the day the 942 (the 921 successor) was released (a year ago), that it too would be incapable of playing the new mpeg4 channels.

That's not to say you don't have the right to be pissed. We 921 owners were sold a bad bill-of-goods.


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## pistoff (Mar 7, 2006)

David_Levin said:


> Can you software upgrade you Std-Def DVD player to play HD DVDs?
> How about a Civic into a Corvette?
> 
> The hardware inside the 921 is simply incapable of doing what your asking.
> ...


I can download a MPEG 4 decoder for my computer. What gives?


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## pistoff (Mar 7, 2006)

David_Levin said:


> Can you software upgrade you Std-Def DVD player to play HD DVDs?
> How about a Civic into a Corvette?
> 
> The hardware inside the 921 is simply incapable of doing what your asking.
> ...


tomdownload.com has a mpeg2 to mpeg4 converter why cant E*


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

pistoff said:


> tomdownload.com has a mpeg2 to mpeg4 converter why cant E*


There is a big difference between a computer and a satellite receiver. The satellite receiver has only one function - display satellite programming on a TV, while a computer does multiple things and has to be more generic. The receiver uses dedicated chips for processing the signal. The computer CPU has a bigger "brain" and can be instructed to do more thru software. E* could have put a whole computer in the 921 to make it more flexible, but then it would have cost double what they sold it for.

If you have a little patience, in 3 weeks you can trade your 921 in for a 622 for $99 and get all of the HD programming that Dish is offering.


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## pistoff (Mar 7, 2006)

IowaStateFan said:


> There is a big difference between a computer and a satellite receiver. The satellite receiver has only one function - display satellite programming on a TV, while a computer does multiple things and has to be more generic. The receiver uses dedicated chips for processing the signal. The computer CPU has a bigger "brain" and can be instructed to do more thru software. E* could have put a whole computer in the 921 to make it more flexible, but then it would have cost double what they sold it for.
> 
> If you have a little patience, in 3 weeks you can trade your 921 in for a 622 for $99 and get all of the HD programming that Dish is offering.


I understand thanks Iowastatefan. I may look into a computer that has DVR instead of investing in another piece that may be replace again soon.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

pistoff said:


> I can download a MPEG 4 decoder for my computer. What gives?


Software mpeg4 decoder would require at least a 3Ghz CPU and 800Mhz RAM speed just to do 720p @ 30 fps in real time. These DVR's just have a 750Mhz processor inside. What's really needed is an mpeg4 decoder chip which is much faster than even the high end PC.

Don't feel too bad the 942 owners (the ones that bought not leased) are even madder because they theirs for less time before the replacement dilemma.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

pistoff said:


> I understand thanks Iowastatefan. I may look into a computer that has DVR instead of investing in another piece that may be replace again soon.


Move to Europe. They use the same DVB system, but unlike DISH they will authorize smart cards attached to computer DVB cards. Thus someone there has dozens of choices DVR software to use.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

David_Levin said:


> Can you software upgrade you Std-Def DVD player to play HD DVDs?
> How about a Civic into a Corvette?
> 
> The hardware inside the 921 is simply incapable of doing what your asking.
> ...


One of the big selling points for the 921 was that it had an expansion bus and a real operating system. It was supposed to be flexible and expandable, able to meet our needs for several years.

The irritating thing is that it probably could be upgraded to MPEG-4. For some reason, Dish is not willing to do it, probably because they don't want to deal with the hardware defects that cause the stuck aspect ratio.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

jergenf said:


> Software mpeg4 decoder would require at least a 3Ghz CPU and 800Mhz RAM speed just to do 720p @ 30 fps in real time. These DVR's just have a 750Mhz processor inside. What's really needed is an mpeg4 decoder chip which is much faster than even the high end PC.
> 
> Don't feel too bad the 942 owners (the ones that bought not leased) are even madder because they theirs for less time before the replacement dilemma.


You are thinking real-time encoding, which requires quite a bit of computing power. Decoding MPEG-4 requires very little cpu time, particularly if you offload some of the work to a graphics chip.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

At the time the 921 first came out there were discussions on the various DBS boards regarding MPEG4. At that time the concept of real-time decoding of MPEG4 was not yet a reality. MPEG4 took a long time to decode under the current processors of the day. You would literally have to download a program and wait for the processor to decode the program. Speculation put the decoding time at 10 minutes.

None of us thought MPEG4 would have become a viable DBS standard anytime soon.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Larry Caldwell said:


> You are thinking real-time encoding, which requires quite a bit of computing power. Decoding MPEG-4 requires very little cpu time, particularly if you offload some of the work to a graphics chip.


I was referring to decoding but encoding is much more labor intensive. As you mentioned the latest graphics boards are being used to decode mpeg4 much faster than the CPU could do alone But there may be a problem with all new generation graphics boards concerning HDCP which HD-DVD and Bluray will use. Not sure if copy protect issue will throw a monkey wrench into the works.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

I can record tv on my pc in MPEG2 and it is horrible PQ. It's a fun toy but not something to watch.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

langlin said:


> I can record tv on my pc in MPEG2 and it is horrible PQ. It's a fun toy but not something to watch.


That's just your setup. I can do video capture from the 921 to PC and maintain good S-Video resolution. When I capture 16:9, the capture card automatically does anamorphic format, and I can stretch it back out to 16:9 on playback. On my 8' screen, switching back and forth between the 921 DVR and my DVD player, the difference is just barely perceptible.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Larry- you're right about the 921's bus could support an mpeg4 decoder card if they decided to develop one. I spoke to Dan at E* about this over a year ago when we first got the news that they were planning to go MP4. He said it is quite possible but for business reasons they felt it would be better to make the next generation of receiver a bottom up rebuild. Their were just not enough 921's in use to justify the dev cost of a card for the 921, especially considering this was only a part of the plans for new features that the 622 has. Essentially, the 622 has more than just an mp4 decoder. There philosophy was that if they offered a reasonable upgrade path such as the $99 deal now being proposed after 4-1 that this would be a lesser cost than to sell you a single hardware card for the 921, another card? for the 942 etc. I think it would be a different argument if Dish said we had to pay another $999 for the 622, but they aren't. They are offering it for $99. I paid about that for the upgrade on my 6000 awhile back and that only got me one new HD channel. All in all, their April offer isn't a bad deal for the added HD and the added featuires of the 622 that you will also be getting. There is a bunch more than just the MP4 with the 622, such as outboard harddrives promised. But then we were promised Dishwire and look where that ended up. So, let's just say some of the 622 enhancements are like the 1394 Dishwire at this point in time, possible but wait and see if this is yet another lie.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

There is very little competition within the TV industry therefore little incentive to offer open hardware platforms that will survive for a number of years.

That is why the software is so unstable - it must be re-developed every two years for the latest hardware platform.

If this approach had been taken in the PC industry, there would be no PC industry. We would still be running 20 different operating systems on proprietary $10K minicomputers of the 70s.

This is all the fault of Hollywood studios panicked by the proliferation of PC open standards and 'piracy'.

The result is a trend of new shows piloted through net-only venues. I see that trend becoming an avalanche especially with the younger generation that the advertisers target so heavily.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

tm22721- It's what people call progress. As a matter of fact, the VIP622 just happens to have proported IPTV capability. No wonder the initials "V IP" Hint??

I recall it was Charlie Ergan who told Scott G that he sees the future of the business being SD TV expanding into IP TV and sees a future growth in this area. Just a few years ago, many felt that HDTV was going to obsolete SDTV. Today, we have a whole new venue for SDTV in the latest TV on the go for IP casting to cell phones and PDA's using the internet. This format is actually lower quality TV than current day SDTV. IT was not Hollywood that forced this through their arcain ways but the fact that the public asked for more information quicker while they were on the go and HDTV just did not fit this model. Not even SDTV. What did was IPTV. The only thing Hollywood is failing at (along with local Broadcast stations) is their failure to embrace this public demand and ride the road of profits by giving the people what they want. While I do believe that the TV stations will continue to base their business model on the 30 second spot, Hollywood will by its very nature, be dragged kicking and screaming all the way to the bank as the public will pay for movies on as many formats as it wants. 
There is no such thing as a high tech device that lasts 20 years. You may be able to use it for 20 years but it will not grow with the technology.

Note- I still use a windows 95 computer to do basic analog video machine control here for editing. It works! but it doesn't do 1394, surf the web, or do WM9 video. It just controls 4 betacam decks for analog video editing. Fact is, that system would not run on a windows XP due to software design. This is a perfect example of how old technology may be left behind but does not necessarily become useless. However, as the cable TV headends all become switched over to digital video I will eventually find there is no longer a need for doing things on analog tape and then I can retire that system. The same goes with our Sat receivers. We just can't grow with them but we still can use them. Even my old Dish 5000 will receive some channels if I hooked it up.


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