# Getting HDTV for Christmas?



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Are you getting your first HDTV set for Christmas, or perhaps just in time for the bowl
games? Congratulations and welcome to America's fastest-growing 'club'.

You probably have already noticed that there is a confusing array of HDTV displays,
technologies and prices from which to choose. As you do your research on which
display technology to consider and what size screen to buy, try not to believe all the 
hype surrounding the buying process at the retail level. While the good news is that 
HDTV prices are dropping -- fast! The bad news is that many TV sales people, while 
they try to sound authoritative, are just as overwhelmed and confused as you are and 
can only parrot what they have been told in product familiarization sessions.

Here are a few general tips that may help you wade through the buzz, the hype and 
the unrelenting blizzard of unfamiliar technical terms.

First, decide three things ahead of time:

• the amount you want to spend, or can afford to spend - set limits
• the size screen you plan to get, and any space considerations
• which HD provider you will use, and whether you will buy or 'rent' your HD box

* "...the amount you spend on HDTV may be limited
by your budget...you should also consider that, in
most cases, your actual cost...will be higher..." *

While the amount you plan to spend on an HDTV may be limited by your budget, you
should also consider that, in most cases, your actual cost to join the 'HDTV club' will be
higher than you thought because it is not only a factor of your choice of display technology,
and screen size, but the initial and ongoing costs of your HD programming provider.

Screen size: "Bigger is better" Some folks who purchased their first hi-def television 
set say they wished they had bought a larger set, but for many of us, that advice has to 
be tempered by the amount we can realistically afford to spend. In some cases, space
and viewing distance will be limiting factors. While it's true you can sit closer to a hi-def
image, chances are, much of your viewing will still be in SD (Standard Definition) for the
foreseeable future. If possible, avoid buying an HD set with a reflective 'glare screen'
-- you'll thank me later. 

Display Technology: Basically, your choices today are LCD (Liquid Crystal Display), DLP
(Digital Light Processing) and Plasma. There may be a few analog RP (Rear Projection)
sets still around, but while these sets generate excellent HD pictures and may be offered
at close-out prices, they are bulkier than their flat-panel successors and are of an older,
obsolete technology. LCD will usually be cheaper than DLP or Plasma for a given screen
size, or conversely, you can typically get a larger LCD screen for the equivalent investment.

HD Programming: It has been estimated that about half of HDTV set buyers do not have 
a source of hi-def programming from cable, satellite or OTA (Over-The-Air). Whether by
choice or ignorance, these HD set owners are missing out on the real benefit of owning
an HDTV -- the pure enjoyment of watching an absolutely stunning, crystal-clear, almost
3-D like picture. Other than the cost of an antenna, OTA is free, but if you want more than 
just part-time local/network HD programming, be sure to consider the initial and monthly
cost of satellite or cable HD and include those costs in your budgetary considerations.

Finally, after taking delivery of your shiny new HDTV and having had a chance to enjoy 
the myriad of choices in HD programming, be sure to share your experience here, and
also drop by DBSTalk's "Best Network HD" Poll and give us your opinion as to which 
HD programmer or program that you think has the best HD PQ (Picture Quality) of all.


----------



## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Great post, Nick! I would really only add one thing -- I personally would not consider any HDTV that does not output 1080p. Yes, there is a cost difference and yes programming is not there yet, but if you settle for 720p now, you will miss the best available (even now), you will regret it every time you see a 1080p image, and within two years (before SD is even turned off) you will serriously regret it when you want to upgrade your 720p because you're missing the best. Spend a little more now, get something that will get you through 5 - 10 years. In two years (Feb 2007) you'll need another set anyway if you are a multiple tv family.

I bought my large-screen 1080p and can clearly tell 720p from 1080p programming. 480i or 480p almost looks bad (just not sharp enough!). For peace in the family, I will have to buy another (smaller) 1080p set, but at least I can (happily) wait for next year's price drops. Oh btw, I don't think we'll see a whole lot of price drop in 2008 -- the year just before that SD cutoff date.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I think that rather than using the term "DLP", a better choice would be "microdisplay". While LCD projection and LCoS are LCD based technologies, they are decidedly different from the backlit LCD thin panel.

While plasma and LCD direct view are fighting for flat panel supremacy, the war rages on between DLP and LCoS for the rear projection honors.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

richlife said:


> I personally would not consider any HDTV that does not output 1080p.


Note that the only situation where this might come into play is with a CRT based TV. For most, 1080i is going to be sufficient for quite a while.

I can go for the idea of sticking to 1920x1080 (or DLP's 960x1080 wobbulated) displays versus something that must always be scaled. IIRC, there are very few TVs that have 1280x720 display matrix; Sony makes three or four such displays.


----------



## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

richlife said:


> Great post, Nick! I would really only add one thing -- I personally would not consider any HDTV that does not output 1080p. Yes, there is a cost difference and yes programming is not there yet, but if you settle for 720p now, you will miss the best available (even now), you will regret it every time you see a 1080p image, and within two years (before SD is even turned off) you will serriously regret it when you want to upgrade your 720p because you're missing the best. Spend a little more now, get something that will get you through 5 - 10 years. In two years (Feb 2007) you'll need another set anyway if you are a multiple tv family.
> 
> I bought my large-screen 1080p and can clearly tell 720p from 1080p programming. 480i or 480p almost looks bad (just not sharp enough!). For peace in the family, I will have to buy another (smaller) 1080p set, but at least I can (happily) wait for next year's price drops. Oh btw, I don't think we'll see a whole lot of price drop in 2008 -- the year just before that SD cutoff date.


Well, most people cannot afford a 1080p set at this time. I jumped in and bought a 37" LCD with 1080i capability for $999 and that was a stretch for my budget. I have not regretted a moment my decision. Saving up for the 1080p would have delayed my purchase for at least a year. I think the delay would not have been reasonable given the very small difference in quality between 1080i and 1080p. I watch most sports in 720p and am quite satisfied.


----------



## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

richlife said:


> Great post, Nick! I would really only add one thing -- I personally would not consider any HDTV that does not output 1080p. Yes, there is a cost difference and yes programming is not there yet, but if you settle for 720p now, you will miss the best available (even now), you will regret it every time you see a 1080p image, and within two years (before SD is even turned off) you will serriously regret it when you want to upgrade your 720p because you're missing the best. Spend a little more now, get something that will get you through 5 - 10 years. In two years (Feb 2007) you'll need another set anyway if you are a multiple tv family.
> 
> I bought my large-screen 1080p and can clearly tell 720p from 1080p programming. 480i or 480p almost looks bad (just not sharp enough!). For peace in the family, I will have to buy another (smaller) 1080p set, but at least I can (happily) wait for next year's price drops. Oh btw, I don't think we'll see a whole lot of price drop in 2008 -- the year just before that SD cutoff date.


Richlife,

Actually the standard is going to be SD not HD in 2009, I believe the new date is now 2009. They are going to do away with the Analog channels not SD channels. Also the Gov will probably provide SD boxes for the masses to watch SD on there current Analog TV's. They have never even discussed HD as a standard yet? TV stations are not required to provide any HD channels to anyone. Perhaps one day we will have a committee in DC to pass the new standard to be HD. But not yet. 
The TV stations are still having problems working out the problems with the SD channels. This is why they keep getting extensions in doing the change over.


----------



## Albie1200 (Dec 13, 2006)

I have been waiting to go HD for a couple of years now. I finally decided to pull the trigger after much research on here, AVS and Cnet. I have decided to get a Vizio VX37 for the picture, and changing from D* to E*(having to pay D* to get out of contract) for my provider. I have a Pioneer 816 A/V system, a sony DVD recorder GX330(non-HDMI, but progressive). and PS2(hopefully PS3 in the not to distant future). Now it's not a system that would impress many on here I am sure, but when you get lemons you make lemonade. 

I understand what Richlife is saying, unfortunately(in some ways, like less $$) my wife and I are about to start tring for our next child, and with the expenses of that if I don't move now it will be quite some time before I have the extra cash. So essentially it's now or never.

I am still tring to work out the OTA antenna. I would very much like to be able to record 3 shows at a time, but between the D* cancellation fee, E* set up(DVR box fee), wires and the rest, the budget is getting used up(not to mention I still have Xmas gifts to buy). Due to my neighboors large house and location of transmitter(Mt. Wilson in LA), I am limited to where I can effectively place the antenna. It is going to be on the same corner as the telephone and voltage lines in order to miss my neighboors house. I know of the dangers of the antenna contacting either of the wires, thats why I was thinking of the square shooter since it is pretty short so if it fell over it wouldn't hit the wires. Anybody in the Newport/Costa Mesa, CA area that has had success with that antenna? I don't want to drop the $70 and have it not work. According to antenna.org I am 45.2 miles from transmission.

Any help or things to look out for would be appreciated.

Jason


----------



## loves2watch (Mar 27, 2006)

RPTV that is rear projection TV's were noted as being obsolete technology. Nothing could be further from the truth. New units have composite, component and HDMI/DVI inputs and the only limitation is the device you attach. Their resolution is at least 720p and 1080i.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

loves2watch said:


> RPTV that is rear projection TV's were noted as being obsolete technology. Nothing could be further from the truth. New units have composite, component and HDMI/DVI inputs and the only limitation is the device you attach. Their resolution is at least 720p and 1080i.


You are right, of course. I have had the same Panasonic 53" CRT Projection HDTV as you
(w/o HDMI) for about three years now and it still produces an amazingly life-like HD picture.
I would be the last one to belittle the venerable CRT-based rear-projection technology, but
in the digital age, and with flat-panel sets ranging in size to over 70", the market is moving
away from analog CRT-based television sets, a 60-year old technology which has served
us well.

My mint 1992 Chrysler Fifth Avenue still gets me from point 'A' to point 'B' (and sometimes
'C') in the same luxuriously comfortable style it offered when it was brand new 15 years ago,
but, alas, automotive technology has passed it by. Every new gadget I want on my car, be it
XM Satellite radidio, dual-screen DVD or GPS, has to be a clunky aftermarket add-on.

I try to never say 'never', but it is highly unlikely that I will ever get another CRT-based tv set.
I now have three flat-panel LCD tv sets, one of which is HD, and I'm on track to replace the
two remaining tube-type sets, a 13' bedroom tv and a 5" kitchen set within the year.


----------



## ahrjmr (Nov 17, 2004)

Dave said:


> Richlife,
> 
> Actually the standard is going to be SD not HD in 2009, I believe the new date is now 2009. They are going to do away with the Analog channels not SD channels. Also the Gov will probably provide SD boxes for the masses to watch SD on there current Analog TV's. They have never even discussed HD as a standard yet? TV stations are not required to provide any HD channels to anyone. Perhaps one day we will have a committee in DC to pass the new standard to be HD. But not yet.
> The TV stations are still having problems working out the problems with the SD channels. This is why they keep getting extensions in doing the change over.


Standard Definition, or SDTV is an analog signal converted to digital, resulting in a much better looking picture than what you currently watch at home.

So in 2009 when they turn off the analog signal SD will be gone too.


----------



## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

I found this article and thought it may be some help on your choice for a HDTV set.

www.projectorcentral.com/hdtv_edtv.htm

Hope it helps in your selection. It does explain some of the differences in HD and Analog.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

ahrjmr said:


> Standard Definition, or SDTV is an analog signal converted to digital, resulting in a much better looking picture than what you currently watch at home.
> 
> So in 2009 when they turn off the analog signal SD will be gone too.


Sorry, but you are misinformed! Here is a quote from http://dtv.gov -

Digital Television (DTV) is the latest way of broadcasting that is transforming our television viewing experience. Images and sound are captured using digital technology, delivering a movie-quality experience, multicasting and interactive capabilities. That means better quality, more choices, and more control over your television. There are many quality levels of digital television programming. The most common are:

*

Standard Definition TV (SDTV) - SDTV is the basic level of quality display and resolution for both analog and digital. Transmission of SDTV may be in either the traditional (4:3) or widescreen (16:9) format.

*

Enhanced Definition TV (EDTV) - EDTV is a step up from Analog Television. EDTV comes in 480p widescreen (16:9) or traditional (4:3) format and provides better picture quality than SDTV, but not as high as HDTV.

*

High Definition TV (HDTV) - HDTV in widescreen format (16:9) provides the highest resolution and picture quality of all digital broadcast formats. Combined with digitally enhanced sound technology, HDTV sets new standards for sound and picture quality in television. (Note: HDTV and digital TV are not the same thing -- HDTV is one format of digital TV.)

----
Also, here is a link to a Wikipedia article that explains pretty thoroughly just what SDTV, EDTV and HDTV are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDTV

It should be noted that there are 20 different digital TV formats defined for the world as a whole (the number of combinations of resolutions, frame rates and progressive/interlaced). Of these, only 8 or 10 are currently used by broadcasters in the United States. 1080p is available ONLY via Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and is unlikely to be used by broadcasters due to bandwidth requirements.


----------



## schley (Nov 30, 2006)

richlife said:


> Great post, Nick! I would really only add one thing -- I personally would not consider any HDTV that does not output 1080p. Yes, there is a cost difference and yes programming is not there yet, but if you settle for 720p now, you will miss the best available (even now), you will regret it every time you see a 1080p image, and within two years (before SD is even turned off) you will serriously regret it when you want to upgrade your 720p because you're missing the best. Spend a little more now, get something that will get you through 5 - 10 years. In two years (Feb 2007) you'll need another set anyway if you are a multiple tv family.
> 
> I bought my large-screen 1080p and can clearly tell 720p from 1080p programming. 480i or 480p almost looks bad (just not sharp enough!). For peace in the family, I will have to buy another (smaller) 1080p set, but at least I can (happily) wait for next year's price drops. Oh btw, I don't think we'll see a whole lot of price drop in 2008 -- the year just before that SD cutoff date.


Why pay up front for technology that won't be readily utilized for a couple years meaning 1080p? THere will be some more programming in that resolution but I think paying 1-2k more now for that is not smart for you could take that money and put it into an interest bearing account and in 2 years you could have bought your last hdtv which has 720p and another new 1080p. We all would love to get it, but you could have 2 hdtv sets in 2 years as opposed to one that you will might have to live with as you say above 5-10 years.

I always usually advocate for buying just under the technology ceiling for the savings and then buy what was the ceiling today in a year or two for half the price. That way you get 2 for 1 in essence and all you did was do without the ceiling technology for 2 years, BTW I don't think the difference between 1080p and 720p is with the premium considering you have to get blue ray and hd dvd to even utilize it now.


----------



## schley (Nov 30, 2006)

Cholly said:


> Sorry, but you arre misinformed! Here is a quote from http://dt.gov -
> 
> Digital Television (DTV) is the latest way of broadcasting that is transforming our television viewing experience. Images and sound are captured using digital technology, delivering a movie-quality experience, multicasting and interactive capabilities. That means better quality, more choices, and more control over your television. There are many quality levels of digital television programming. The most common are:
> 
> ...


good breakdown and people take note of the last line in regards to 1080p don't be in a rush to get that set now! Not worth it IMO at this time.


----------



## TreeFarm (Dec 4, 2006)

We just unpacked and set up a 32" Sony Bravia (KDL-32S2400). No HD source yet, but we are pleased with the SD picture quality. I had a little bit of concern about that after reading some of the posts on the AVS forum. Wide screen DVDs played on our Panny DMR-EH50 through the component video output look really good compared to our old set.

Next step, see if a high gain OTA antenna will pick up the HD locals from our rather tough location.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

And, I am probably the only person who is subscribing to the "wait and see" when it comes to HDTV, including the prices coming down on some of the less than bargain HDTVs. One of the reasons include DirecTV's HD Lineup.


----------



## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Mark Holtz said:


> And, I am probably the only person who is subscribing to the "wait and see" when it comes to HDTV, including the prices coming down on some of the less than bargain HDTVs.


There are a number of people on the fence probably for any number of reasons, the biggest is of course cost, which is dropping quite a bit. There are a number of HDTV sets that have recently been under a $1000 from 32-40", which depending on your own situation is either cheap or expensive.. Second reason for sitting on the fence for some I think is the confusion with all the different display technologies and some of their short-comings..

If you can afford a set and an are in an area where you can receive OTA HD TV without problems, most all networks provide most all primetime programming in HD. Many if not all NFL Games are in HD. As are quite a bit of other sports programming that appears on local channels. NBA, NHL, some college games, etc....

The visual quality of some programs is stunning, some programs because of how they are produced have a softer look, Live sports look extremely sharp and clear.

If you stay on the fence, prices will continue to drop perhaps, but I think that they will stabilize about where they are for a while, it all depends on who can afford to discount and who cannot as to whether it will take any more precipitous drops.


----------



## ultranet (Oct 27, 2006)

I m thinking of geting a diablo bike for this christmas...
700 cc, a black one.....vroommmm.....


----------



## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

For some reason, this thread didn't show back up in my "New Posts" until today -- I really haven't been hiding. 

I did have a typo in my original post about digital broadcasts starting in Feb 2007 -- it should have been Feb 2009 and I actually do know that. 

I also should not have said HD is required at the time, it's digital that's required (forgive my HD enthusiasm).

As far as suggesting 1080p capable tv now -- I stand on the recommendation. You may be able to save a few hundred dollars, but you will have a limitation that is noticeable today. I don't have Blu-ray (but I want it -- someday I can afford it when the price comes down). Will all digital or HD station broadcast in 1080p -- no, but there will be some. Will it be noticeable? Yes. Do I think 720p is great viewing? Yes. Can I tell the difference between 720p and 1080i? You better believe it!! I think that the difference will be more noticeable the larger the screen you purchase.

So, I (with my fixed income retirement budget) chose to get the best I can manage now and be best prepared for the near future and my continuing desire to the best I can afford (which certainly doesn't extend to anywhere near the more expensive availalbe). As you make your Christmas and after HD purchases, pay real attention to the resolution and notice how little more the price is to "future size" your purchase. 

And finally, it your choice is the one of having a child versus a more expensive tv, I don't think it's a choice any more than it was when I was having my child. Good luck and Merry Christmas!


----------



## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I've had a Samsung DLP for 3 years now. As a pre-Christmas, pre-retirement present to myself, I bought one of their current generation units (another 61" gem). I got it delivered for $2250 plus tax, but you can shave more from the price by going with outpost.com. Beautiful looking set with terrific PQ and lots of connection options.

I used to be a fence sitting on price/features but convinced myself that you can get stuck in that rut ad nauseum. I now purchase new technology when the cost/benefit is in the right quadrant.

John


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Dammit, John, you've got my HD juices flowing again!

Suddenly my 53" Panny RP is beginning to shrink -- what model Sammy did you get?


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

I'm a little surprised at those who claim they can tell the difference between 1080i and 720p. You need to qualify your statements. Since you have to deal with different sources (most of the broadcast content is 1080i, except for Fox (and if I recall, ABC/ESPN). Since there is no simulcasting in both formats, it becomes nearly impossible to make a judgement between the two formats. In addition, you have to consider the native resolution of the receiver. Many receivers only have 1280X720 resolution, and resort to scaling when they display 1080i programming. High end plasma and direct view CRT receivers don't have this problem, AFAIK. Granted, 720p is better for sporting events, where there is rapid motion in the scene. And 1080i is better for static display and where rapid motion isn't a factor.
1080p broadcasting will require a either a change in channel bandwidth or some form of compression. Since cable and dbs already compress current HDTV signals, I don't hold out too much hope.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Cholly said:


> Many receivers only have 1280X720 resolution, and resort to scaling when they display 1080i programming.


Actually, only a half dozen or less televisions have a true 1280x720 display. The rest (other than projectors) use a somewhat larger matrix.


> High end plasma and direct view CRT receivers don't have this problem, AFAIK.


High end plasma is 1080p, and all plasma are matrixed which gives it its LCD like screen door effect.


> Granted, 720p is better for sporting events, where there is rapid motion in the scene. And 1080i is better for static display and where rapid motion isn't a factor.


Here, it is you that is making assumptions. For televisions that don't convert to 540p, 1080i can be almost indistinguishable and given the higher detail, possibly even preferred.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

My new Philips 23" (720p ) HDTV monitor sitting on the corner of my desk displays an
incredibly sharp 1366 x 768 image, even at a very close viewing distance of 3-4 ft. It 
has the same resolution as the Sony 23" BRAVIA S-Series LCD, but at half the price.


----------



## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Nick said:


> Dammit, John, you've got my HD juices flowing again!
> 
> Suddenly my 53" Panny RP is beginning to shrink -- what model Sammy did you get?


HLS6188. The 87 is the same box (I think) just priced lower for different markets. We've been watching the Discover HD channel and some of the programming is truly jaw dropping. Maggie usually gives me a hard time on my technology purchases, but this time even she admits it was well worth it.

John


----------



## inflamable2006 (Dec 21, 2006)

I am planning to buy a HDTV..
Can u suggest me which one is better

HD61LPW175 61" RCA DLP HDTV WITH INTEGRATED ATSC TUNER AND DRC

OR

RCA 50" SCENIUM DLP HDTV


----------



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Television as it should be viewed. Just get that guy out of the way. Hey, you!!! Down in front!!!


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inflamable2006 said:


> I am planning to buy a HDTV..
> Can u suggest me which one is better


Do you want a 61" TV or do you want a 50" TV?

Both TVs are using older generation (lower resolution) DLP technology. Unless you are looking at paying a lot less than the MSRP on those models, you can do a lot better with a different brand.

Unless you want the cablecard capability for other reasons, you're paying for something that you can't use with satellite.


----------

