# Voom... Why the stigma?



## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

OK.. So I've learned enough to know that E* absorbed the failure that was the Voom DBS service.

I'm new to Dish Network, so what I don't understand is the anti-Voom sentiment amongst the Dish veterans/purists.

I find the Voom channels exciting because of the incredible video quality and the content that's outside the norm of the US domestic market.... 

As a case-in-point: I've always heard people talk about the CFL, but have never understood how it varies from the NFL For the first time in my life, I can watch it for myself... in CRISP HD. 

FWIW I just think it's unfair to denegrade this HD content because it doesn't wear a 'cable network' moniker.......


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

Most of the people who say negative things about VOOM have never seen any of the channels and they mostly echo comments made by others. I don't understand their logic either. I watch several of the VOOM channels on a regular basis and find the programming to be good, if not better than what's shown on other channels. The difference is, VOOM is 24/7 HD programming with no commercial interruptions.


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## himini (Feb 13, 2007)

I love many of the Voom channels and have always been saddened by the attitude here. SO much better than watching commercial television. I hope it doesn't go away.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Most of the people who say negative things about VOOM have never seen any of the channels and they mostly echo comments made by others.


I think you hit the nail on the head. At least one here even claimed that Voom is mostly upconverted SD programming, which of course, if they had EVER seen the programming they would never claim.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

bartendress said:


> OK.. So I've learned enough to know that E* absorbed the failure that was the Voom DBS service.


Voom DBS didn't fail because of the then 21 Voom HD channels ... they failed because they overextended themselves financially and the board decided to cut the losses instead of toughing it out.

E* was more than willing to take over the satellite space, satellite and an uplink center ... which is all E* wanted from the DBS service. E* nearly doubled their available space at 61.5°.

The Voom channels were a separate deal ... E* made a large investment in the future of the Voom channels and began to offer a selection of them (10) to E* HD subscribers who wanted a few more channels. Then they rolled them in to the "regular" DishHD package last year and added a few more variations.

I consider the Voom channels to be similar to the Starz movie pack. Starz is by no means an HBO or Showtime equivalent but is a nice selection of "extra" movie channels to supplement the AMCs, TMCs and FXs of regular "cable" channels. Voom is about the same ... a nice collection of HD images to go along with regular "cable" HD.

A couple of years ago he battle cry was "I'll take anything in HD!" Voom fills the need with 24x7 guaranteed HD channels (and some decent programming).


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

A lot of people down Voom because they want more hd national channels and they know that Dish is limited in bandwith right now. SO if they would just consolidate the Voom channels into say 10 or less , you would have room for more national hd channels that people want like Sci-fi, Fx,Usa etc. Before these channels were added on Directv there were complaints about the redundant repeats on Voom and the fact that we are paying about $10.00 a month for them . Now that there are more national channels to watch on Directv , there are more people wanting that space that Voom uses for more hd. I would have to agree if they would consolidate the programming on some of the channels , there would be less repeats shown and more room for more hd channels. Just don't touch RAVE, or Monsters hd. These two channels should have there own channels.


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## Deke Rivers (Jan 8, 2007)

not sure why myself..
I love Kung Fu, Monster, World, and Film Fest..
only issue I see is that the programming gets redundant after awhile..although they do update somewhat regularly
the pic quality on those channels are excellent and its always HD..unlike the national channels


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

Voom gets stigmatized because of the rift between E* and D* these days with regards to HD. D* customers (and even D* itself, even if indirectly) constantly say that the Voom channels aren't "real" (even though they are ALL HD, no ifs ands or buts except for some upconverted movies) because the programming tends to be... esoteric. I consider much of it to be just like Discovery, TLC, etc., alot of educational stuff. Now I realize that many people don't watch stuff like that, but that's no excuse to write off all the Voom channels as garbage, any more than a non-sports fan could write the NHL channel and etc as garbage.


Do I watch voom all the time? no - hardly ever in fact, but that's just because I don't watch tons of TV to begin with, not because I don't like the channel. Although, my wife does watch it from time to time to record some educational stuff (she's a teacher).

But, others are correct in saying that Voom was a quick and easy way for E* to grab some true HD content at a time when HD wasn't even really mainstream yet.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I was one of the less than 50,000 original Voom subscribers. The shame is that in a
potential market of upwards of 25 million satellite subscribers, Voom could muster
only about .002 percent of that total.

At a time when HD channels weren't that easy to come by, Voom stepped up to the
plate and offered a bouquet of fresh, new HD channels, most of which I have greatly
enjoyed. The PQ was amazing and the variety quite interesting. I often watched some
Voom programming just because it was in HD.

Some have said that Voom was ahead of its time, but with today's available HD
channel counts approaching three figures, a Voom-type service today probably
wouldn't fare any better.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Voom DBS didn't fail because of the then 21 Voom HD channels ... they failed because they overextended themselves financially and the board decided to cut the losses instead of toughing it out.
> 
> E* was more than willing to take over the satellite space, satellite and an uplink center ... which is all E* wanted from the DBS service. E* nearly doubled their available space at 61.5°.
> 
> ...


VOOM failed because it couldn't attract enough subs. They only had 48,000 total when they shut down. Many reasons for this. They had very expensive equipment charges to get started. They were designed to be a "second" in-home service, to have in addition to cable. They didn't have much mainstream programming to be a primary provider. Also, they were just too far ahead of the market - there just were not enough HDTV owners for the massive investment. On top of that, there is also no question that in the beginning, the HD content was constantly re-looping the same programs over and over.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I think that a lot of the complaints about the VOOM channels from the customers that actually do have it. The complaints come from the fact that so many of their programs are repeated so many times. VOOM need a LOT of new material to really make it worthwhile. The service could stand some consolidation too. Currently, with all the other new HD channels becoming available, there are just too many VOOM channels with not enough programming to justify all of them. The bandwidth could be used for "more desired" programming.


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## pvcleave (Mar 20, 2007)

The problem with the Voom channels is I don't like many of the channels; the fashion channel, treasure, and others. I know some people do, but I don't. The channels that I would watch, such as Rave, Cartoon, and Game channels have very little new content. These channels are constantly repeating themselves or have lousy programs. I think the Voom channels should consolidate down to a couple good ones.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Since we're new to HD, we're looking at Voom to see what's there, particularly in the 5 pm to 8 pm time block since we're on the West Coast. But here's the problem....

We don't watch the SD Golf or Speed or Outdoor channels nor will we ever watch many of the Voom channels. But the presence of Golf or Speed or Outdoor on the guide did not mean that the rest of the subscribers we're not going to see USA, SciFi, Lifetime, BBC, etc. nor did it mean we would not get to see PBS and The CW.

The bandwidth used for the Voom channels does mean that at this time the bandwidth to show USA, SciFi, Lifetime, BBC, etc. channels in HD is not available. While at this time there isn't much HD programming on those channels, there will be.

Finally, we don't subscribe to Starz or Cinemax. We haven't seen the benefit potential compared to the cost. Being forced to pay for the Voom channels is a bit frustrating. But then so is paying for the Golf channel except that cable and D* subscribers also pay for it.


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## orenr (Jun 10, 2004)

The problem with Voom is that they don't have anything new. Each channel has about 30 movies and they keep repeating them. On the few channels I was interested in, they broadcast today the same movies they did over a year ago, when I switched to Dish. I saw all of them, so now I don't watch Voom anymore.

It's a waste of satellite bandwidth. I'm not saying they should kill the Voom channels, it's preferable to transmit some new movies, but if they're not going to do that, they might as well use the bandwidth for something else


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

Good feedback. Voom was just a bad business model.... though I'm curious to know what the content was like before E* acquired their system. Was it all 'loopy' as it is today?... or was that something E* instigated? 

If E* needed to consolidate some Voom channels to make room for some other significant HD content, I'd like to think they'd do so in short order.

The market is now in a phase where while, on side of the coin, the number of HD channels can be a tipping point while, at the same time, the more savvy HD customer is looking for more and better content, too.

It's a catch-22 to a degree... full-time HD content on a loop, or new HD channels with 50-75% (or more) upconverted SD content.

I'm kind of over the whole, "Oooh! New HD channel!... Oh, crap. It's almost all upconverted." rollercoaster ride.

Grrrrrr.......


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## He Save Dave (Jun 6, 2006)

Repetitive & boring IMO. Watching a show about a painting is about as fun as watching paint dry to me. I realize some people like that kind of thing and that's cool too. 

I was so excited when I got dish and saw GameplayHD. I'm a gamer. I loved that channel for a week or so until I saw everything it had to offer. Very little new content as with most of the Voom channels.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Part of the stigma came from a comment Charlie made when he said there was no compelling content. That was before E* started offering VOOM.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

bartendress said:


> OK.. So I've learned enough to know that E* absorbed the failure that was the Voom DBS service.
> 
> I'm new to Dish Network, so what I don't understand is the anti-Voom sentiment amongst the Dish veterans/purists.
> 
> ...


Voom is nice complement to E* HD, but if you sign up for E* just because of Voom, you will usually be disappointed. A sub has to have other viewing interests than Voom. I am generally watching HD sports or network (ABC, NBC, etc.) shows. But every time when I turn on the TV, not for a specific sporting event or network show recorded on the DVR, I go immediately to the Equator Channel. I know that it is going to repeat. I do not care that it repeats. But I always check if there is something I want to watch. I generally watch Equator three or four times a week.
(I also watch PBS shows in HD) But I would not sign up for E* just for Voom. There has to be other reasons and then Voom is a nice bonus.


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

orenr said:


> The problem with Voom is that they don't have anything new. Each channel has about 30 movies and they keep repeating them. On the few channels I was interested in, they broadcast today the same movies they did over a year ago, when I switched to Dish. I saw all of them, so now I don't watch Voom anymore.
> 
> It's a waste of satellite bandwidth. I'm not saying they should kill the Voom channels, it's preferable to transmit some new movies, but if they're not going to do that, they might as well use the bandwidth for something else


I concur. The fact that VOOM repeats ALL of their content every month is just a HUGE waist of bandwith. They're worse than the add on movie channel packages. Imagine having a network such as FX, spike, etc. showing the same shows for over a year. I'm sure you'd stop watching too.

They either need new content or just have to be axed all together. Enough is enough and the bandwith is very valuable with D* getting all of these new national HD's up.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> They were designed to be a "second" in-home service, to have in addition to cable.


While VOOM didn't offer LIL, they offered almost everything else. With an antenna for locals, they were pretty much content competitive with other providers. They offered nine HBO channels and nine Cinemax channels!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I have never seen Voom as I am a DirecTV subscriber and it sounds like the PQ and the base set of shows would be interesting.

I would welcome a Voom subset (like a best of Voom) to DirecTV if they got it. Repetitive gets boring after a while (like MHD needs some new material soon). If they cannot add new material, then a handful of Voom channels (say 2 or 3) with shared content would spread things out a bit.

I would guess most of the bashing about Voom is because of the amount of bandwidth it takes up now that other channels are coming on line. Expect that bashing to increase when the new channels become more true HD.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> While VOOM didn't offer LIL, they offered almost everything else. With an antenna for locals, they were pretty much content competitive with other providers. They offered nine HBO channels and nine Cinemax channels!


Look - I'm not knocking VOOM now. As a matter of fact, Cablevision is a big customer of my company, I have spent many hours in their home facility in Bethpage, I have seen VOOM from within their offices. They actually had a big display area in the company waiting area - a virtual WALL OF TELEVISION.

I am saying that they did NOT provide the standard channel oferings, and things like locals are the MOST important channels people want. They were way ahead of their time, that was a deadly blow to them. At their peak they had ONLY 48,000 subs. BOTH DirecTV and DISH at that time were drawing hundreds of thousands of new subs a quarter - and VOOM was getting at best a trickle.

The overwhelming majority of people do NOT use OTA when they have a pay provider - enthusiasts do, but the general public does NOT. All the reasons that VOOM died.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

This really isn't about Voom the DBS service but the Voom channels now offered on E*.

Voom had more non-Voom HD than any other provider at the time ... including channels the other providers are just catching up with. The point being that they didn't fold because there was a problem with the Voom 21. We can agree that they folded for other reasons.


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> (We love it when some people want to eliminate channels that THEY don't watch, but that others might watch. Very valuable reasoning. THEIR opinions are more valuable, of course....because their opinion is better than ours. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol


Its the sacrifices of the few that benefit the many. Happens all the time in today's society.

I'm sure VOOM was great when it was released, but they really have to change with the times. The fact that they don't have commercials is probably why they are not motivated to do anything.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The thing most intriguing to me is that many of the things used to bash Voom can be applied to other existing channels as well.

HBO/SHO/Starz/MAX do play new movies in HD... but they also play a lot of old movies, and loop many repeats. Whenever there is a free preview of any of these premiums, I often see lots of movies that I remember watching when I used to subscribe years ago... or worse, 20 years ago. So some of the "they loop the same old movies" comments against Voom apply to the other premiums as well. The only substantial difference is Voom has not shown an ability to acquire recent movies... so that is a fair critique.

People tout having HBO East and West as an advantage over just having HBO East... and yet that is definately repetitive... so in my opinion wasting bandwidth for a channel just to be 3 hours different than another but have exactly the same content is worse of a bandwidth waster.

Then there are the "I don't like Treasure" or "I don't like Ultra"... well, truth to tell I don't like those channels either. But someone does... and I also know that channels I like aren't always liked by other people either. So the "I'd rather have channel X than channel Y" seems to apply to many channels whether they be Voom or not.

Now.. I have been critical of Voom in one way myself. I do not think they have enough content to fill 15 channels. I would rather see 8-10 consolidated with the same programming at about half the bandwidth. Sadly, this also applies to other channels non-Voom. Most of ESPNHD/ESPN2HD could really be covered by ESPNHD and sometimes an alternate for simultaneous events... I also see no point in TBSHD now that baseball is done.

All the new Discovery family of HD... could almost still have been covered by HD Theater. They definately do not fill their slate of 5 channels with enough HD to justify 5 channels, when they could show what they have for HD with probably 2 channels.

Even USA/SciFi/Bravo could be covered by UniversalHD. USAHD, by all reports has had a bunch of HD... so maybe it can stand alone.. but SciFi and Bravo could have been covered with the existing UniversalHD if they would show their current series in HD instead of waiting 1+ years.

Eventually we will have more HD channels... and more HD on those channels... but honestly, almost any critique of Voom can be extended and applied to most of the rest too. There are very few bullet-proof HD channels that exist right now. Even our major broadcast networks only do primetime in HD for the most part, so that's 3-4 hours per night of HD vs the rest of the day.


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> Unfortunately that is true.
> 
> I am happy that Dish has Big 10, but I will never watch it.
> 
> ...


I'm in no way saying OMFG GET RID OF VOOM BECAUSE IT SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS AND I DON'T WATCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm just trying to stress that VOOM does not deserve to to be on 15 channels and yet only offer a very limited amount of programming. Maybe 5-10 channels but 15 is way overkill. Why wouldn't you take the supplementary programming on 5 of those VOOMs, throw them on the others and then offer 5 new national HD channels such as SciFiHD, SPEED, FX, USA HD etc. etc? The addition of just those channels alone would give me (and probably others) a greater satisifaction and show customers that E* is trying to stay on top of the market rather than play number games with D*. The fact that there is a very limited amount of programming over so many channels just plain irks me when E* desperately needs the bandwith right now.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> I think this post shows how ignorant some people are about VOOM....and this is the reason for the stigma....ignorance.
> 
> Only a couple of VOOM channels even SHOW movies.....<sigh>......should we even be responding to this ridiculous post?
> 
> I remember that I called D* about their service and the CSR told me that Dish had VOOM channels that show the same handful of movies over and over. I guess that is where this comes from. Ignorance is ignorance whether it comes from CSRs or from people who post here.


they have a few good channels...i like game play...or the thought of it...problem is...they replay shows from 3 years ago a lot...so that kinda sucks...still cool though.

monster HD plays the living dead and evil dead movies over and over....and rightly they should be...gotta love the classics!! lol ....oh and anyone who doesn't enjoy Godzilla in HD......come on!

but yeah the ultra fashion in HD, and painting guy in HD, and the flea market in HD....eehhhhh...to each their own i guess...I happen to be a BIG 10 junkie...being from B10 country it's a big draw for me...just as I'm sure flea marketing in HD is for others! get more bandwith...get more channels...everyones happy.


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## tpag2000 (Oct 26, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> Why is it that some people want to eliminate the channels that others might watch just because THEY don't watch them.


What I don't understand about your comment is why you never seem to address the question/proposal/idea (whatever you call it) that many people have set out, consolidate some of the VOOM channels. I've seen this comment (I think from you) several times in many threads so maybe you have addressed this before and I just missed it.

Isn't your argument really the same as (or at least very similar to) "theirs" though?
THEY say, don't broadcast "that VOOM channel", instead give me "that National network".
But you say, give me "that VOOM channel" right now instead of "that National network".
Even if you want that National channel TOO, you still seem to be saying that you'd prioritize VOOM over any of the new channels, which is really what others are saying about the National networks.

I don't think many actually care too much what you or others watch. If there was plenty of bandwidth then even THEY would say, sure add "that VOOM channel", even if THEY don't want to watch it. That's how the SD market is in a lot of ways. There are ALOT of SD channels on the list that I never even look at, but you don't here people saying take off this SD channel or that very often.

Funny thing is that I don't actually care that much. I think Dish will catch up soon enough, so I'm happy to sit and wait until they do, not that I have a choice given my contract


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I have no bones to pick with VOOM - I couldn't care if they keep it or not personally - and I view it on occasion as posted earlier.

But to say that it is only people that don't have it are the ones that knock it goes against the facts. Read back thru this and other threads on VOOM - there is in fact a large number of DISH subs that would like to see VOOM reduced to maybe 5 or 8 channles and for DISH to utilize that bandwidth for some of the more mainstream channlels now launching.

The real problem is that it CAN'T happen - Charlie made the deal in order to get the satellite when VOOM folded - he is locked in to providing the programming for the foreseeable future.

That's just the way it is - there is no other way to spin it IMHO.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> The real problem is that it CAN'T happen - Charlie made the deal in order to get the satellite when VOOM folded - he is locked in to providing the programming for the foreseeable future.


NO

The deal to carry the Voom content came AFTER the deal to purchase the Voom satellite, uplink and licenses. E* made a later investment in Voom programming ... 20% IIRC ... but that is NOT connected to the satellite deal. Please don't rewrite the past.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> That would be fine to consolidate....and we will also expect to have Big Ten, NFL, NHL, ESPN, Altitude, and FSN consolidated as well?
> 
> I have never wanted to eliminate ANY channels. I'd rather have more....but others here want to choose to eliminate some channels in lieu of THEIR favorites.
> 
> ...


eeeehhh...ok...before speculating that any of those channels you mentioned are equal to compare with voom.....i would check out ratings first...I would have to guess that any one of those channels alone bring in a bigger draw than the VOOM repeats...like I said, I don't have a problem with VOOM....but you cannot compare major channels to any of those....two different levels television. Not to mention E*...correct me if I'm wrong ...is the only MAJOR sat/cable company broadcasting it? Not a lot of people out there screaming about missing it.

It's clear that since you bring up BTN and sports channels so much that your not a sports fan...thats fine...but think about this....how many sports channels keep coming out.....vs how many VOOM style channels.....compare TBS or USA...who air a lot of repeats sure......but sports channels? National Locals? nah....:nono2:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> 20% IIRC


You recall correctly.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> compare TBS or USA...who air a lot of repeats sure......but sports channels?


I watched the Minnesota Goofers football game a couple of days after it actually happened. This was either a repeat or somehow the laws of physics have been defeated and they can deliver live programming slower than the speed of light.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> Not true....but if that is what you want to believe....I can't stop you.


You just seem to mention them in most of your replys...thats why. Maybe if you stopped using the same channel in comparison EVERY time, others wouldn't think it, or miss the sarcasm? Not a big deal...just saying...



> I watched the Minnesota Goofers football game a couple of days after it actually happened. This was either a repeat or somehow the laws of physics have been defeated and they can deliver live programming slower than the speed of light.


What channel? I know BTN shows replayed games during the week, for fans who missed it...So does NFL network...shows the best games of the week for everyone who didn't get the local broadcast....I was referring to the syndicated television shows that TBS and USA...and TNT (?) show...which is fine by me...but are in closer comparison to VOOM programing than sports channels would be.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I probably watch as much VOOM (mostly Rave) as any other channel. I have a PVR event to record all new "Rave Shuffle" programs along with many of the concerts. I use the recorded Shuffle programs, which are about 34 minutes long, to watch while a normal network program is in record mode. By the time I have watched all the good parts of the Shuffle the network program is usually far enough along that I can switch over to it and don't have to contend with any advertising. After watching the Shuffle I will shuffle it off the the external hard drive for eventual archiving to DVD (down rez). By the way, I just caught a band called Grace Potter and the Nocturnals on the Shuffle... great stuff.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> What channel? I know BTN shows replayed games during the week, for fans who missed it


It was on BTN, but your reasoning could be used for any repeats. Rave must be repeating concerts and other programs for those who missed it the first time. Ditto for the syndicated programs on TBS, USA, etc.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

i enjoy Gameplay at times..also sunrise earth is pretty cool looking with HD


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Richard King said:


> It was on BTN, but your reasoning could be used for any repeats. Rave must be repeating concerts and other programs for those who missed it the first time. Ditto for the syndicated programs on TBS, USA, etc.


mmm...not really...games are replayed for the following week...not entire seasons...but i understand what your saying.


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

I like the VOOM channels. It's really great to be able to watch _Samurai 7_ on Animania or (from my childhood) _UFO_ and _Thunderbirds_ on Family Room in HD. Yes, the programming is sometimes limited but as my Mom said to me this past Sunday when I was watching _Back To The Future_ on Cinemax--"Ugh, that movie's on every other day!" Seems to me I heard a similar comment above.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Xandir said:


> I like the VOOM channels. It's really great to be able to watch _Samurai 7_ on Animania or (from my childhood) _UFO_ and _Thunderbirds_ on Family Room in HD. Yes, the programming is sometimes limited but as my Mom said to me this past Sunday when I was watching _Back To The Future_ on Cinemax--"Ugh, that movie's on every other day!" Seems to me I heard a similar comment above.


Cinemax also releases new in demand content each month, as does the other Premium movies channels...again, not a great comparison. Every channel will show repeats, but the ones like FX, SCI FI, Locals, HBO, SHOWTIME, ect. also have big time shows that are high in viewer demand....so i think *IF* they need to "make room" for new channels, i would think consolidating a couple of VOOMS would bring less fallout from viewers than some of the others mentioned. But like I said before...get more bandwith...for more channels...and nobody has to lose channels they like.


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## Schizm (Jul 31, 2007)

Xandir said:


> I like the VOOM channels. It's really great to be able to watch _Samurai 7_ on Animania...QUOTE]
> 
> I couldn't have been happier watching that series too on Voom. I love several of the Voom channels but I don't watch them all. The wife and I have about four or five timers setup for Voom programming.
> 
> I know several ppl wanted TBS badly the moment D* went live. But I could care less and haven't watched five minutes since it went HD. It's just about who shouts the loudest and what you happen to read. Hope you enjoy the channels and welcome to E*!


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> NO
> 
> The deal to carry the Voom content came AFTER the deal to purchase the Voom satellite, uplink and licenses. E* made a later investment in Voom programming ... 20% IIRC ... but that is NOT connected to the satellite deal. Please don't rewrite the past.


You again miss the point - doesn't matter what came first - they are locked into a programming agreement for VOOM now - and that won't be broken - and they won't consolidate the programming. b DISH is stuck with ALL of it - good and bad.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

People are saying to consolidate, but who's gonna pick the channels that need to be. Then when the bandwidth is available do we un-do it? This a baloney argument (I edited myself there) in a couple of months time there is going to be a large amount of bandwidth for all these channels as well as the other HD's. So I repeat myself baloney argument.  :lol:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

whatchel1 said:


> People are saying to consolidate, but who's gonna pick the channels that need to be. Then when the bandwidth is available do we un-do it? This a baloney argument (I edited myself there) in a couple of months time there is going to be a large amount of bandwidth for all these channels as well as the other HD's. So I repeat myself baloney argument.  :lol:


You have the launch date for E*'s new satellite? Until then they are in a bandwith crunch (hence the taking away of some PPV to make room for new channels). That why all the "baloney consolidate" arguments are coming from...hopefully the get the new sat up, and deals done and we will all be happy.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> You again miss the point - doesn't matter what came first - they are locked into a programming agreement for VOOM now - and that won't be broken - and they won't consolidate the programming. b DISH is stuck with ALL of it - good and bad.


It matters when someone posts false information in our forums. You falsely claimed that E* had to carry the programming to get the satellite.

E* chose to carry the Voom programming ... they chose to expand the lineup from 10 to 15 channels and the decision to continue carrying the Voom channels is more likely based on the number of hours of HD present on those E* carried channels compared to the channels D* fans are promoting. (Which reminds me, I thought you were done in the E* forums for a year?)

E* has used the line "more hours of HD programming" in their advertising in the past. Perhaps it is time to revive that slogan. Voom is 15 channels of content that no other national provider has in HD 24x7. The "other channels" are generally the same content that E* customers already get with a better picture during select hours.

Voom is the brother who went to college and became a doctor compared to the brother that plays football well and made it into the NFL. Guess who is going to get more press for simply doing their job? Guess who is more likely to get noticed when there is an outstanding save? The guy who saved a life or the guy who caught a funny shaped ball? Both perform "miracles" on different levels. But who gets the most credit?

Voom is simply misunderstood.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

ScoBuck said:


> You again miss the point - doesn't matter what came first - they are locked into a programming agreement for VOOM now - and that won't be broken - and they won't consolidate the programming. b DISH is stuck with ALL of it - good and bad.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1250773&postcount=142


> But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already. See you all in a year or so.


If it were only so.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> ...We can agree that they folded for other reasons.


...all of which have been repeated here _ad nauseum_. This dicussion has become circular


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already.


> See you all in a year or so.


Why...as long as someone brings something to the table within subject...thats fine.

Now if someone was making personal attacks on people, or just be plain rude to other members...then the mods would need to do something.

Since I haven't seen either of those....post over here all you want...believe it or not with you and james going back and forth...a lot of us learn some stuff.

If someone doesn't like people debating, they can simply choose to ignore you and go hang in the "Find a happy place with E*" thread.

But back to OT.... I would like to see some of the VOOM channels come up with "newer" shows.....i think with some of the "themes" they have, they could come up with some pretty cool things.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

I agee texas - my take on it is that moderators are supposed to encourage discussion, not curtail it or take it over.

The fact is there is more than one side to this issue - let it air in public.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Voom, doesn't have any more repeats than other networks, it's just that all the other networks have SD repeats and EVERYTHING on Voom is HD!! I watch 4 or 5 of the voom channels regularly. Treasure has some great stuff, have you seen the car auctions? Beautiful HD shots of some very beautiful cars. Equator HD is as good or getter than Discovery HD Theater. I even watch Flipper occasionally. If we didn't have the Voom channels we would get something that only broadcasts 4 or 5 hours of HD a day.

GET OVER IT ALREADY!!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

RealityCheck said:


> I agee texas - my take on it is that moderators are supposed to encourage discussion, not curtail it or take it over.
> 
> The fact is there is more than one side to this issue - let it air in public.


Right...now I can see when threads get way off the original topic...and just becomes a ***** fest...then it needs to be locked...but as long as it stays on the OT...have at it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

... Off Topic Warning .... 

And it is the moderators job to make the call when it does and to make the call of when someone is stepping over the line of being abusive etc. It is all subjective and what one may thinks is stepping over the line other may think it is well within the limits.. 

In anycase.. this is stepping off topic and wondering into the rules violation. If you have any issue or concerns about moderation. PM any moderator or Admin with your concerns and we will be happy to discuss them offline... 

Now... Back on Topic...


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Jim5506 said:


> Voom, doesn't have any more repeats than other networks, it's just that all the other networks have SD repeats and EVERYTHING on Voom is HD!! I watch 4 or 5 of the voom channels regularly. Treasure has some great stuff, have you seen the car auctions? Beautiful HD shots of some very beautiful cars. Equator HD is as good or getter than Discovery HD Theater. I even watch Flipper occasionally. If we didn't have the Voom channels we would get something that only broadcasts 4 or 5 hours of HD a day.
> 
> GET OVER IT ALREADY!!





> That would be fine to consolidate....and we will also expect to have Big Ten, NFL, NHL, ESPN, Altitude, and FSN consolidated as well?
> 
> I have never wanted to eliminate ANY channels. I'd rather have more....but others here want to choose to eliminate some channels in lieu of THEIR favorites.
> 
> ...


]
s
Difference is..all of these channels in addition to repeats...air new shows daily...whether they be talk shows, sitcoms or dramas. A quick scan through my guide shows no new dates of shows on gallery or treasure (didn't bother with the rest)...thats where people are getting the "repeat" issue


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

My experience with VOOM is that the PQ is generally great, but the content that I care to watch is sparse. I find myself watching programming that I wouldn't bother with simply because it is well rendered HD.

And some of the content is just plain lame, little better than someone filming a bug in their driveway with an HD camera, like the really early HD demos. HD for HD's sake.

Still, I find enough to call the service enjoyable from time to time.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

FogCutter said:


> My experience with VOOM is that the PQ is generally great, but the content that I care to watch is sparse. I find myself watching programming that I wouldn't bother with simply because it is well rendered HD.
> 
> And some of the content is just plain lame, little better than someone filming a bug in their driveway with an HD camera, like the really early HD demos. HD for HD's sake.
> 
> Still, I find enough to call the service enjoyable from time to time.


I agree...when i first got it i watched for the picture..and was like "wow"...but then got bored...but there are still good shows some of the channels...Monster has the complete Friday the 13th collection on now...kinda cool


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

What people here "deny, say, claim, want, demand, recommend" or any other action or suggestion really means nothing. E* will do whatever it takes to succeed in the DBS business, to improve their bottom line and make their stockholders happy. It's there decision.


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## Manke (Dec 27, 2005)

bartendress said:


> Good feedback. Voom was just a bad business model.... though I'm curious to know what the content was like before E* acquired their system. Was it all 'loopy' as it is today?... or was that something E* instigated?


I was a Voom or better yet a VaVoom subscriber and the original 21 channels had better content then today. True things did repeat but that is the same as the current premium HBO etc. The Four channels Guy TV, Majestic, Gunslingers and filmfest have all been condensed into Film Fest and so if you are a movie viewer much was lost. Still I watch better than 10 hours of Voom a week and would not give it up for most of the National Programs. I do not and would not watch Animania, Gameplay, Ultra or Family but I have seen these as others favorites! I like the diversity myself that you can not find elsewhere!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> Obviously, we don't want to go there....."the content that I care to watch"....is EXTREMELY subjective.
> 
> I don't want to deny the content YOU care to watch....why should YOU deny the content that someone ELSE cares to watch? (not saying that YOU are denying it...but some people seem to be ready to eliminate or consolidate the channels that *they *don't care to watch.)
> 
> ...


i think you need to lay off the caffeine...or at least the exclamation marks...geez


> Originally Posted by FogCutter View Post
> My experience with VOOM is that the PQ is generally great, but the content that I care to watch is sparse. I find myself watching programming that I wouldn't bother with simply because it is well rendered HD.
> 
> And some of the content is just plain lame, little better than someone filming a bug in their driveway with an HD camera, like the really early HD demos. HD for HD's sake.
> ...


Care to read the last comment he left? Still finds it enjoyable? At NO point did he say to get rid of it...just giving his thoughts of it, like the OP asked, and as you do many times on sports channels....relax:smoking:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

And Voom lovers should get their channels ... and they do!


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

James Long said:


> And Voom lovers should get their channels ... and they do!


And Sci-Fi lovers should get their channels... but they don't. Yet. Hopefully.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> I'm really sorry that I hurt your feelings with the "exclamation marks." It must have been *really hurtful *since it was the first thing you mentioned.
> 
> I'll try not to hurt you with my "exclaimation marks" in the future. I'm really sorry.
> 
> ...


hurt my feelings? again...at which point did i mention that? You seem to go to the extreme in your responses...usually when someone types in all caps, or adds 30 exclamation points, they are giving off the impression that they are yelling their statement...therefor my comment to relax...and see you did...it's just internet site dude....it's gonna be allllllll right:feelbette

and yes everyone should get the channels they want...but it's up to E* to decide which ones go, so new ones can be added.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I am the little kid as the DISH goes by saying

VOOM VOOM VOOM


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## Marriner (Jan 23, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> We're just a bunch of dopes... [/sarcasm]


Please speak for yourself. :hurah:


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## belunos (Oct 6, 2007)

Speaking only as an outsider looking in (D* subscriber), I mostly just read complaints about how everything is looped over and over.. as in, almost to no new programming on those channels. I don't know if that perception is correct, but it's the one I get when I read topics about it over here.

Oh yea, and I perceive people disliking the Voom channels taking up bandwidth that could be used for other broadcasts. Again, just the perspective that I arrive at.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> I agree...when i first got it i watched for the picture..and was like "wow"...but then got bored...but there are still good shows some of the channels...Monster has the complete Friday the 13th collection on now...kinda cool


Monster has some good ones, a few of the other channels come through once in a while. Until recently, D* wasn't offering much better, but the new entries look really good.

E* will come around and I guess fairly soon. The market is always changing. HD anything doesn't sell like it used to and never will again.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

Generally good discussion here... once you filter the D*/E* snarkieness, anyway.

I'm finding some good stuff on Film Fest and Monster that I'm packing away for a rainy day via my DVR... and I'm really learning a lot about CFL and hope to catch some of the Pan Am Games on World Sport.

I've been around the block enough to know that the haters will generally always be much more vocal (exponentially so) than the lovers. It's just the way that goes.

Case in point: All the folks lined up in the aisle within minutes of receiving L446 with their lead pipes, ropes, knives, crowbars, etc. ready to beat up Dish for the OTA audio debacle... yet we've gone over 24 hours and I've yet to see a "We love L447" thread.

You just know that E* is looking at every opportunity to utilize bandwidth, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that E* uses that little phone line/ethernet thingy to track what we're really watching. If they thought for a second that some of the Voom content was REALLY sucking out, they'd shut it down like that bird at 121 and exploit the opportunity.

It's not their first time at the rodeo.... They know what they are doing.


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## kinglerch (Aug 29, 2007)

belunos said:


> Speaking only as an outsider looking in (D* subscriber), I mostly just read complaints about how everything is looped over and over.. as in, almost to no new programming on those channels. I don't know if that perception is correct, but it's the one I get when I read topics about it over here.
> 
> Oh yea, and I perceive people disliking the Voom channels taking up bandwidth that could be used for other broadcasts. Again, just the perspective that I arrive at.


That is a valid concern. If you watch VOOM a lot like I do, you do see a lot of repeats. The question though is, are there more repeats than the alternatives? Are the alternatives broadcasting more HD? My guess is that you would find the same or less HD on these new "HD" channels compared to VOOM right now, even considering the repetition.

Now if you don't like the content, then that's another issue. I can only speak for my own experience. When I had no other HD to watch, several VOOM programs I'd never heard of were really great.


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## RichP (Sep 6, 2003)

I actually went from DirecTV to Dish Network primarily because of Monsters HD, and I haven't been disappointed.


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## dgeffs (Nov 20, 2006)

When you run out and spend $5000 on a nice plasma HDTV the normal expectation is you would like to see some nice HD programming. For the longest time Voom has provided this with superb quality, unique programming and with the added bonus of no commercials. This is a combination that is pretty hard to beat for new HDTV owners. Sure there is repetition and eventually you will see every program and perhaps get a bit bored. I don't watch it near as much as I did at first. 

Perhaps they should consolidate a few of the channels but Voom is hardly a huge waste of bandwidth. We all have different tastes and opinions and I suppose that's what keeps things interesting. While this won't be a popular comment I think the real waste of bandwidth is due entirely to the zillions of sports channels present. It's a sad commentary on our society when sports channels are the most important programming offered. The providers are driven by economics and sports is a huge draw so they give the people what they want even if some of us don't care for it. I'm sure the sports fans probably don't care for the programming on Voom or superbly produced television like Planet Earth either. Different strokes...

Most of us want new HD programming but the blame for this should not be placed on Voom for sucking bandwidth. It provides great programming especially for the new user and will actually cause more people to demand HD after seeing what is possible. I'd rather watch endless repeats on Voom than SD of any kind. The sooner the people producing the programming realize that many feel this way the sooner they will change. 

Just to give you an example of something fundamentally stupid that has nothing to do with Voom or Sports look at the Food Network. They continue to broadcast their most popular show in SD when it costs virtually nothing to move it to HD. Why do they do this? The networks need to be harassed until they produce everything in HD and obviously that will come some day. You want SciFi in HD - then ***** to the Sci-Fi channel, your dish provider and their advertisers. Tell them you are mad as hell and aren't going to watch SD anymore.


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## booger (Nov 1, 2005)

RichP said:


> I actually went from DirecTV to Dish Network primarily because of Monsters HD, and I haven't been disappointed.


Monsters HD is fantastic. I visit it and Rave quite a bit.


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## jgurley (Feb 1, 2005)

I like the uniqueness that Voom offers. When channel surfing I often find myself settling in on some Voom channel, stuff you won't find any where else.

Yesterday a lunch (I work out of the house) I came across a Phil Collins concert from 2004 on RAVE and it made my afternoon. I grew up with Buddy Holly and the Kingston Trio, but the see and hear "In the Air of Night" and "Take Me Home" was just great. I cranked the volume up, pulled out my guitar, strummed and sang along. My wife came down to see what all the ruckus was about and joined right in. The video and sound was so very good we felt like we was in the audience.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I came across a Phil Collins concert from 2004 on *RAVE *


Ah, yes, my favorite channel of them all.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

dgeffs said:


> When you run out and spend $5000 on a nice plasma HDTV the normal expectation is you would like to see some nice HD programming. For the longest time Voom has provided this with superb quality, unique programming and with the added bonus of no commercials. This is a combination that is pretty hard to beat for new HDTV owners. Sure there is repetition and eventually you will see every program and perhaps get a bit bored. I don't watch it near as much as I did at first.
> 
> Perhaps they should consolidate a few of the channels but Voom is hardly a huge waste of bandwidth. We all have different tastes and opinions and I suppose that's what keeps things interesting. While this won't be a popular comment I think the real waste of bandwidth is due entirely to the zillions of sports channels present. It's a sad commentary on our society when sports channels are the most important programming offered. The providers are driven by economics and sports is a huge draw so they give the people what they want even if some of us don't care for it. I'm sure the sports fans probably don't care for the programming on Voom or superbly produced television like Planet Earth either. Different strokes...
> 
> ...


I'm a major sports watcher...but I love the Planet Earth stuff too.....they should leave VOOM alone...there are plenty of movie PPV channels that can be used for wanted nationals, until they get the new satellite up.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

We've had Dish HD for about a year and a half and still find new stuff to watch on Voom channels. My husband loves the monster channel and we both like equator and rave and, sometimes, filmfest.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> This really isn't about Voom the DBS service but the Voom channels now offered on E*.
> 
> Voom had more non-Voom HD than any other provider at the time ... including channels the other providers are just catching up with. The point being that they didn't fold because there was a problem with the Voom 21. We can agree that they folded for other reasons.


Do the Dolans program VOOM? If not who?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Their staff? Voom isn't the only national programming Rainbow Media provides.


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## dgeffs (Nov 20, 2006)

jgurley said:


> I like the uniqueness that Voom offers. When channel surfing I often find myself settling in on some Voom channel, stuff you won't find any where else.
> 
> Yesterday a lunch (I work out of the house) I came across a Phil Collins concert from 2004 on RAVE and it made my afternoon. I grew up with Buddy Holly and the Kingston Trio, but the see and hear "In the Air of Night" and "Take Me Home" was just great. I cranked the volume up, pulled out my guitar, strummed and sang along. My wife came down to see what all the ruckus was about and joined right in. The video and sound was so very good we felt like we was in the audience.


That really was a tremendous concert. I've recorded it and find myself watching it over and over. There was also a Genesis concert aired on Rave that was pretty good too. Where else are you going to find stuff like this with no commercials?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Now that we've had a little time to get used to the Voom schedules, we are finding some great entertainment. And with the writers strike, these channels could get far more interesting....


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

You'll find some good stuff on Voom. The other day I enjoyed 12 Angry Men on FilmFest. :up:


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## RobbieB (Jun 21, 2006)

I 'll just echo what's been said by a lot of people. Voom has good PQ but many of the programs aired are dated and replayed too much. Not that I didnt like some of the programming it's just that some of the shows are so old and they only have a few episodes, you quickly run out of new stuff to watch (the original air dates on many of the shows is 2004!).

I think it's a little funny that we still can't get our local channels in HD yet these local channels are available FREE OTA in HD, they look great and the programming is awesome.

24, house, heros, prison break, conan obrien 

I can't wait for comedy central and FX... maybe cartoon network and disney/nickelodeon for the kids.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

I've been busy lately and not on the board. I can't believe this thread is still going strong!

I can relate to the comments on the Phil Collins concert. I stumbled across, and recorded, a Depeche Mode concert on RAVE. When I sat down to watch it I very-nearly peed. It was THAT good.

Unfortunately, the Madison Avenue guys need to focus on the stuff that Joe Average is going to recognize and find interesting in seven mentions. Voom could be such a 'hook' if they could find a way to promo it.


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## zeekle (Jun 18, 2005)

its been said already but I will say it again. 

I really like the variety of channels on voom. On paper a gaming channel, a horror channel, and a kung fu/action channel is a great idea but they seem to be so few updates to these channels. 

Most of the stuff on the gaming channel is 2-3 years old. They were replaying E3 from 2005 a week or so after the 2007 E3 event. 

I have scanned the kung fu channel weekly to see if there is any new movies that I haven't watched on that channel and its been a couple of months since I have seen a "new" movie (one that has not played on the channel before) never mind than they have no movies on that channel post 2000.

The Monster channel seems to be similar although not as bad. I am unsure if it is that I don't follow the channel as much as the others or if they have a "pool" of movies they rotate so I don't notice the repeats. 

I would expect they could get the quality of kung fu/asian/action movies they have now enmasse for the cheap. I just wish they would.


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## razorbackfan (Aug 18, 2002)

I like the Voom channels. The HD picture quality is stunning. And where else can you watch Fizz and Gary hunt for bars and drink beer in high def?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Their staff? Voom isn't the only national programming Rainbow Media provides.


Depends on what you consider a national channel.

Personally, I didn't pay the money I did for an HDTV to watch people shop at flea markets or auctions in HD...and I love the concept of Gameplay HD..but they are a couple of years behind on shows...however....monsterHD has shows on it that are great to see in HD...and some of the concerts are ok...sunrise earth is a great showcase of HD....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Depends on what you consider a national channel.


How about "available in nearly every state"? (AK and HI would be the places where it is harder/impossible to get Voom - but that stigma also applies to most other channels. E* has a special package for AK and HI.)


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> How about "available in nearly every state"? (AK and HI would be the places where it is harder/impossible to get Voom - but that stigma also applies to most other channels. E* has a special package for AK and HI.)


or...how about available on a majority of providers line ups .....i can walk into a place with E*, D* Comcast, Charter, Cablevision, Time Warner...how many of those will I see it on...thats what i consider a "national channel"

USA,TBS,FX,Sci FI, CNN, TWC,...ect....those I will find on some package in most if not all cable/sat providers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> USA,TBS,FX,Sci FI, CNN, TWC,...ect....those I will find on some package in most if not all cable/sat providers.


Not in HD. And unless you like countless hours of stretchovision/upconvert it's hard to find those channels in HD anywhere.

But we've had this argument. Time to enjoy what HD you have (and let people enjoy the HD they have) instead of giving yourself and readers an ulcer over the issue.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Not in HD. And unless you like countless hours of stretchovision/upconvert it's hard to find those channels in HD anywhere.
> 
> But we've had this argument. Time to enjoy what HD you have (and let people enjoy the HD they have) instead of giving yourself and readers an ulcer over the issue.


yeah yeah...the old stretch o vision claim gets old when your watching worse content in SD...again it's becoming a pitiful claim to justify not having those channels

and a channel has to be considered National before its considered "national HD" no? I haven't seen any major complaints from other provider customers on why they are not getting VOOM...most people probably don't have a clue it exist...but i bet a majority would reconize those channels i mentioned.

Last time i check we were still on the VOOM thread topic...you had mentioned it was National...i was simply correcting you.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> or...how about available on a majority of providers line ups .....i can walk into a place with E*, D* Comcast, Charter, Cablevision, Time Warner...how many of those will I see it on...thats what i consider a "national channel"
> 
> USA,TBS,FX,Sci FI, CNN, TWC,...ect....those I will find on some package in most if not all cable/sat providers.


Hmmm....

Well by this definition KABC would be a national channel wouldn't it? It is on D*, E* etc. It is on TWC and Comcast that i know of. I think your definition is streaching the definition of a National channel to fit your argument and personally I think classifying a National channel has no relationship to the number of service providers that has it.

To me, a channel that anyone within the network that has service can view it then I would classify it as a national channel if we are looking for a broad definition. National Channel equals the ability for anyone in the nation to view it. In my eyes it has nothing to do with channel popularity etc.. It is a national channel.

On the same note, An HD channel is one that is providing an HD level output signal and and at least a minimum amount of HD level content. By minimum I mean greater than 0. The discussions then becomes not "Is it an HD channel or not", but "Is it a quality HD channel"

Well I am sure people will continue to spin around this topic. To me Voom channels are National HD channels with unique content. Do I watch them? Very seldom because of my personal viewing habits, however just because I don't watch them does not make them not National channels and does not mean they dont' have value.

Well perhaps my definitions are too open... but then again maybe not.


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## kinglerch (Aug 29, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> To me, a channel that anyone within the network that has service can view it then I would classify it as a national channel if we are looking for a broad definition. National Channel equals the ability for anyone in the nation to view it. In my eyes it has nothing to do with channel popularity etc.. It is a national channel.


We're pretty technical people here, why not be more exact? A VOOM channel is HD 24 hours a day, so each channel counts as "1". If History HD is broadcasting HD an average of 2 hours a day, that counts as 2/24 or .08

Then, just add up the numbers and you get the average daily HD content. :grin:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Or we can just forget it, avoid yet another counting thread, and ENJOY THE HD WE HAVE!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Or we can just forget it, avoid yet another counting thread, and ENJOY THE HD WE HAVE!


or don't have..Charter just added TWC HD and Cablevision added CNN, amongst other cable companies...it'd be nice to see those in HD...since I went with th "HD Leader"....and I'm not into channel counts...just into channel demand



> Well by this definition KABC would be a national channel wouldn't it? It is on D*, E* etc. It is on TWC and Comcast that i know of. I think your definition is streaching the definition of a National channel to fit your argument and personally I think classifying a National channel has no relationship to the number of service providers that has it.


Like I said, what "I" consider a national channel is one that you and I would see no matter what provider we were watching....most if not all providers carry most if not all of those channels i mentioned...some in HD some not....the same cannot be same for the VOOM network...E* is the one counting VOOM in it's"national" count to try and pad the "HD Leader" ad....i'm not trying to "stretch" anything...I'm not using hours of HD formulas to justify channels....just looking at it from a common person perspective...before I had E*...I never heard of VOOM...nor has many of the people who don't have E* or D*...I don't mind Voom at all...I just wouldn't consider it a "national"... IMO.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

James Long said:


> Or we can just forget it, avoid yet another counting thread, and ENJOY THE HD WE HAVE!


Amen. Since there's really nothing we can do that matters we might as well. And there is some good content here and there.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

There are a few on this site (and I'm not naming names) that, no matter the E* topic, will put a negative spin on it...

Sheesh, what a disappointment life must be.

BTW, I watch VOOM about as much as I watch a lot of channels. There is VERY GOOD content on these channels. If you've watched all the content on these channels then you need to see a therapist or find a hobby...


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> There are a few on this site (and I'm not naming names) that, no matter the E* topic, will put a negative spin on it...
> 
> Sheesh, what a disappointment life must be.
> 
> BTW, I watch VOOM about as much as I watch a lot of channels. There is VERY GOOD content on these channels. If you've watched all the content on these channels then you need to see a therapist or find a hobby...


Yeah no kidding..I mean who cares if channels aren't in HD...me personally..i bought my dlp so that i could watch channels in SD. I have no clue why anyone would want to be able to turn to a channel and have it in HD...I mean it's not like people signed contracts with the "HD leader" because they were looking for the most channels in HD.



> There are a few on this site (and I'm not naming names) that, no matter the E* topic, will put a negative spin on it...


Don't forget the ones (not naming names) who will defend E* no matter what the screw up.

I like some VOOM also, like i said before...leave it alone, and sandbag some PPV, if thats whats needed.


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## kinglerch (Aug 29, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> Like I said, what "I" consider a national channel is one that you and I would see no matter what provider we were watching....most if not all providers carry most if not all of those channels i mentioned...some in HD some not....the same cannot be same for the VOOM network...E* is the one counting VOOM in it's"national" count to try and pad the "HD Leader" ad....i'm not trying to "stretch" anything...I'm not using hours of HD formulas to justify channels....just looking at it from a common person perspective...before I had E*...I never heard of VOOM...nor has many of the people who don't have E* or D*...I don't mind Voom at all...I just wouldn't consider it a "national"... IMO.


But that's why I think the channel "counting" is invalid. Hypothetically, let's say everyone's heard of TBS-HD. It's got great shows that everyone watches. It's fully "national". But it doesn't broadcast a single second of HD throughout the day. This is better than one of the VOOM channels? TBS-HD counts more?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

kinglerch said:


> But that's why I think the channel "counting" is invalid. Hypothetically, let's say everyone's heard of TBS-HD. It's got great shows that everyone watches. It's fully "national". But it doesn't broadcast a single second of HD throughout the day. This is better than one of the VOOM channels? TBS-HD counts more?


I agree counting is stupid...and I agree that VOOM looks fantastic...and TBS blows..thing is...how many people actually see VOOM, vs TBS, ect...thats the only reason "I" think channels are "national"...thats what i was trying to say...channels you'll find on most basic cable channels.... and again...that is only my thought...there really isn't a definition on what a national channel is...therefor companies will count whatever they will to a national count ad.


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## kinglerch (Aug 29, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> how many people actually see VOOM, vs TBS, ect


Let's just say, infinitely more people see VOOM in HD than see TBS in HD...since the latter is zero.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

kinglerch said:


> Let's just say, infinitely more people see VOOM in HD than see TBS in HD...since the latter is zero.


Very true...I would just think a channel that is "national"...would be "national" in SD first


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

I bought my DLP 5 years ago when there was hardly ANY HD, so it's not a big deal to me. It still looks good in SD...better than any new technology (ie. LCD, Plasma, etc...).

BTW, I *NEVER* watch TWC or CNN. I'm sure there are just as many viewers (on average) that watch a Voom channel. I'm not even sure why watching those channels in HD would be good.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> I bought my DLP 5 years ago when there was hardly ANY HD, so it's not a big deal to me. It still looks good in SD...better than any new technology (ie. LCD, Plasma, etc...).
> 
> BTW, I *NEVER* watch TWC or CNN. I'm sure there are just as many viewers (on average) that watch a Voom channel. I'm not even sure why watching those channels in HD would be good.


Obviously a lot of people do watch them...along with FX, Sci Fi and USA...thats why people are asking for them....you would also have to limit your VOOM viewer (on average) number expectations to mostly E* customers....HD customers that is.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> Obviously a lot of people do watch them...along with FX, Sci Fi and USA...thats why people are asking for them....you would also have to limit your VOOM viewer (on average) number expectations to mostly E* customers....HD customers that is.


You are speculating without much to back it up, just as I am. That's my point. WOW, we don't have three (legitimate; it's hard to really count TWC and CNN, w/o also count the shopping channels as well) channels you want...OOOOOOHHHHH, NOOOOOOOO...:hurah:


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> BTW, I *NEVER* watch TWC or CNN. I'm sure there are just as many viewers (on average) that watch a Voom channel.


It's a pretty safe bet that CNN AND TWC have more viewers than any VOOM channel.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> It's a pretty safe bet that CNN AND TWC have more viewers than any VOOM channel.


AND 5% HD content versus 100%.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> You are speculating without much to back it up, just as I am. That's my point. WOW, we don't have three (legitimate; it's hard to really count TWC and CNN, w/o also count the shopping channels as well) channels you want...OOOOOOHHHHH, NOOOOOOOO...:hurah:


mmm... might want check again...there are more than 3 that E* customers keep asking for. and if you think I am the only one that wants those channels..you are seriously mistaken. and we do count the shopping channels..treasure HD is the one where they have auctions and flea market shopping in HD...right?:lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Very true...I would just think a channel that is "national"...would be "national" in SD first


Your opinion counts, but is not an end all decision.

What is an end all decision is looking at posters who are one one track crusades polluting threads with basically the same rants. We know your opinion ... there is no need to spam.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> AND 5% HD content versus 100%.


CNN has way more than 5% HD - the NY studios (American Morning, AC 360 and others coming from NY) and the new Speical Investigation programming is ALL being shot in HD. I would say that CNN is 25% plus or minus right now in HD.

But if you take the time to read the post that I replied to, it had nothing to do with content of the channels AND ALL TO DO with VIEWERSHIP. BOTH CNN and TWC in fact have higher viewership than any VOOM channel. More people watch it EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT FULLY HD.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

James Long said:


> Your opinion counts, but is not an end all decision.
> 
> What is an end all decision is looking at posters who are one one track crusades polluting threads with basically the same rants. We know your opinion ... there is no need to spam.


*AMEN, BROTHA!!!!!!!*


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> CNN has way more than 5% HD - the NY studios (American Morning, AC 360 and others coming from NY) and the new Speical Investigation programming is ALL being shot in HD. I would say that CNN is 25% plus or minus right now in HD.
> 
> But if you take the time to read the post that I replied to, it had nothing to do with content of the channels AND ALL TO DO with VIEWERSHIP. BOTH CNN and TWC in fact have higher viewership than any VOOM channel. More people watch it EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT FULLY HD.


And, again, you are speculating...


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> And, again, you are speculating...


Ok - I am not here to argue the MERITS of VOOM or CNN.

But what am I speculating on? The ratings of CNN vs. VOOM?


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Ok - I am not here to argue the MERITS of VOOM or CNN.
> 
> But what am I speculating on? The ratings of CNN vs. VOOM?


YES.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> BTW, I *NEVER* watch TWC or CNN. *I'm sure there **are just as many viewers *(on average) that watch a Voom channel. I'm not even sure why watching those channels in HD would be good.


Ok - so I guess you are also. And even *started this speculation *I might add.

:nono2: :nono2:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Your opinion counts, but is not an end all decision.
> 
> What is an end all decision is looking at posters who are one one track crusades polluting threads with basically the same rants. We know your opinion ... there is no need to spam.


spamming would mean i was posting the same words over and over in every thread, that had nothing to do with the thread topic or a response to a reply...since things i have repeated go along with the conversation...I will add my input...when it doesn't...I don't.

Kinda of like whenever someone is upset with E*...you rush to it's defense. No matter what fact or proof or experience they have had...E* is not at fault and we are lucky to have them...opinions are just that opinions.

:backtotop

I'm hoping one day Gameplay will start putting new shows on..there are some good games coming out that they could do shows on.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Ok - so I guess you are also. And even *started this speculation *I might add.
> 
> :nono2: :nono2:


The whole point of this thread was to debate the "stigma" of Voom. Everyone on this thread that says, "Voom is not national", "Voom isn't watched very much" is speculating. Just because they never said, "let me speculate here" or "IMO" doesn't mean that they're not speculating. No?

For me, I haven't watched TWC or CNN probably 30 minutes total in about 3 years AND I, personally, don't the see the usefulness of "news" in HD. That was the whole point of this "Voom stinks", "USAHD, SciFiHD..." argument.

Like someone, more eloquent than I, said on another post. The usefulness of said channel is all relevant to the person watching it.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I think I'm stuck in a revolving door with no escape.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> The whole point of this thread was to debate the "stigma" of Voom. Everyone on this thread that says, "Voom is not national", "Voom isn't watched very much" is speculating. Just because they never said, "let me speculate here" or "IMO" doesn't mean that they're not speculating. No?


Some of what you say is true - the subjective stuff for sure. If you like it, go for it.

The part about VOOM having low ratings is FACT - and here is why. It is only available in this country on DISH (to about 2 milliion HD subs) and on CABLEVISION (I don't have a clue as to their HD dub count).

If every single person that could, watched the SAME VOOM channel at the same time, it would have lower ratings than ESPN. Simply because it is NOT AVAILABLE to that many people overall.

That being said, if it is programming right for you, I think that is wonderful, and enjoy it.


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## BurgEnder (Aug 15, 2003)

I apologize ahead of time if I'm repeating this question as I don't have time to read through this whole thread, but, is it _seriously_ being insinuated that more people watch The Weather Channel more than V*!? This reminds me of the old days during the standard def "space race" when D* fanboys claimed channel lineup superiority because they had Oxygen and Ovation when E didn't. I can probably count the number of minutes I've watched TWC over the past year on one hand. It being in HD doesn't really make it that much more compelling to me. As for V*, Kung Fu & Rave alone get at least 5 hours view time per week in my household.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Some of what you say is true - the subjective stuff for sure. If you like it, go for it.
> 
> The part about VOOM having low ratings is FACT - and here is why. It is only available in this country on DISH (to about 2 milliion HD subs) and on CABLEVISION (I don't have a clue as to their HD dub count).
> 
> ...


Where did ESPN come from????


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> Everyone on this thread that says, "Voom is not national", "Voom isn't watched very much" is speculating.


So you are the only correct person because YOU don't watch those channels? And i think scobuck has a point that a lot...yes...a lot of people watch CNN and TWC more than a VOOM channel...because YOU dont...doesn't mean the rest of the nation don't...all the same, just because someone doesn't watch a lot of VOOM doesn't mean someone else don't...so I would think a lot of "news and weather watchers" would love those channels in HD....


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

texaswolf said:


> Very true...I would just think a channel that is "national"...would be "national" in SD first


There are quite a few HD channels that do not have SD counterparts.

HDNet, HDNet Movies, UniversalHD, HD Theater, Mojo (only on cable)

There are also some channels that are HD channels related to existing channels, but not direct simulcasts...

MHD, VS/Golf HD, FoodHD, HGHD

By virtue of the "requirement" to have an SD channel first... that means there are a whole bunch of HD channels on both Dish and DirecTV that should not count as "nationals" if we aren't counting channels that do not have an SD version as well.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> Where did ESPN come from????


Its just an example. Just like an example if EVERY sub watched the SAME VOOM channel. First off, there are 15 of them - it NEVER happens that everyone watches the same channel, etc.

Point is, the VOOM channels are just not widely available, thus they would have lower ratings. That doesn't speak for its value to you (and others) or its content. Don't mix up the two of them.

And frankly I don't view this as a DISH pro or con discussion either, it really belongs in the TV Show Talk forum - the place to discuss Standard and Hi Definition Programming from ANY DBS provider.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Richard King said:


> I think I'm stuck in a revolving door with no escape.


Yeah...E* contract will do that to ya!:contract:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> There are quite a few HD channels that do not have SD counterparts.
> 
> HDNet, HDNet Movies, UniversalHD, HD Theater, Mojo (only on cable)
> 
> ...


exactly...thats why i said i consider "nationals" to be basic cable channels that have gone HD...like the ones i mentioned...but that is just my thought on it...like i said there is no "set" definition on "national"


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

BurgEnder said:


> I apologize ahead of time if I'm repeating this question as I don't have time to read through this whole thread, but, is it _seriously_ being insinuated that more people watch The Weather Channel more than V*!? This reminds me of the old days during the standard def "space race" when D* fanboys claimed channel lineup superiority because they had Oxygen and Ovation when E didn't. I can probably count the number of minutes I've watched TWC over the past year on one hand. It being in HD doesn't really make it that much more compelling to me. As for V*, Kung Fu & Rave alone get at least 5 hours view time per week in my household.


I would agree with you. Over the last, say 10 years, I don't think I watched TWC once, and CNN maybe less than 5 times. I don't think that the fact they are in HD will make me watch them now either. I too watch VOOM at least 5 hours a week. The argument that more people watch one channel over another is irrelevant to me. If all the whiners and complainers want a channel that E* doesn't have, then they are free to switch to the provider who has what the channel(s) they want; it's just that simple.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok guys... We have wondered off topic here and things are getting personal. Lets get back on topic of Voom Stigma and lets keep away from getting personal.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> Yeah...E* contract will do that to ya!:contract:


Actually, a contract has nothing to do with it. It's the stupidity of this on going debate. No one is going to change anyones mind here. The bashing/defending is a useless debate. If your service doesn't have what you want the answer is very simple. CHANGE to one that does have what you want. If you ARE under a contract either buy it out or wait it out, your choice. If you don't want to BUY it out then, obviously, this "problem" isn't that much of a problem to you. I never watch CNN, I never watch TWC, I never watch SciFi, I never watch USA, I constantly watch Rave and feel that it is the best channel on in HD at the moment, even with repeats. This should matter to NO one since it is my PERSONAL viewing habits only. If you feel different switch to what ever service carries what you want.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> I never watch CNN, I never watch TWC, I never watch SciFi, I never watch USA, I constantly watch Rave and feel that it is the best channel on in HD at the moment, even with repeats. This should matter to NO one since it is my PERSONAL viewing habits only.


exactly...hopefully we will get those choices soon...then we wont have to worry about it.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

And I, personally, couldn't care less if we NEVER get those "choices".


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Richard King said:


> And I, personally, couldn't care less if we NEVER get those "choices".


be an interesting number to see if they put a poll out there on just how many customers do.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

A more interesting poll would be to ask *DISH CUSTOMERS ONLY *if they would give up the Voom channels if they were to add in the HD the channels that Directv added that are already available in SD (which would make Dish on a par with D*). I wouldn't give up Voom for those channels, especially since they ARE available in SD. Some might, it's just a personal choice.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

Richard, I agree with you 100%. The people who are unhappy with E* should switch to another provider and stop complaining about how unhappy they are. But, I would bet dollars to donuts that, if they switched to D* they would find something else to complain about. Better yet, maybe they would be so happy that we won't have to hear from them again


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> spamming would mean i was posting the same words over and over in every thread,.


(q) The posting of duplicate messages in the same forum or in multiple forums is not allowed, and the duplicates are subject to deletion. This not only includes posts that are identical to other posts from the same user or from different users, but also includes posts that are similar in message to other posts left by the same user. Repeated rants against anyone or anything will be considered spam and subject to removal.
source​Have we reached the level of "repeated rant" with certain members? I believe so. (And no, this opinion is not a topic open for public discussion. PM me if you disagree.)

Rather than continuously closing poisoned threads, I'm ready to start closing accounts of those who are stuck in "repeated rant" mode. Please ... be kind to the forum.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Richard King said:


> A more interesting poll would be to ask *DISH CUSTOMERS ONLY *if they would give up the Voom channels if they were to add in the HD the channels that Directv added that are already available in SD (which would make Dish on a par with D*). I wouldn't give up Voom for those channels, especially since they ARE available in SD. Some might, it's just a personal choice.


i agree...i have said it a few times....leave VOOM alone...there are plenty of PPV they could take from if need be. However many channels they are able to add...go from the poll of most wanted...if they are able to come to an agreement...but taking away from VOOM would be foolish.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

richiephx said:


> Richard, I agree with you 100%. The people who are unhappy with E* should switch to another provider and stop complaining about how unhappy they are. But, I would bet dollars to donuts that, if they switched to D* they would find something else to complain about. Better yet, maybe they would be so happy that we won't have to hear from them again


Well - customers have just as much right to 'complain' as they do to 'sing the praises'. Just read through this (and all the others) thread - Just about everyone states their own opinion, and those opinions vary greatly.

If we followed Charlie like sheeps and just accepted every move without question do you honestly think any of us would be better off? I don't.

What you all have to do is stop being so protective, for gosh sakes this place is DESIGNED to let people encourage discussion. Discussion by its nature has to allow for free and open thought, no matter whether you agree with a person or not. It is just not right for you to suggest that people that don't agree with you should just switch companies - not in the slightest bit!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

RealityCheck said:


> Well - customers have just as much right to 'complain' as they do to 'sing the praises'. Just read through this (and all the others) thread - Just about everyone states their own opinion, and those opinions vary greatly.
> 
> If we followed Charlie like sheeps and just accepted every move without question do you honestly think any of us would be better off? I don't.
> 
> What you all have to do is stop being so protective, for gosh sakes this place is DESIGNED to let people encourage discussion. Discussion by its nature has to allow for free and open thought, no matter whether you agree with a person or not. It is just not right for you to suggest that people that don't agree with you should just switch companies - not in the slightest bit!


agreed..nothing wrong with debates...as long as they don't get personal or off topic.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> agreed..nothing wrong with debates...as long as they don't get personal or off topic.


It helps when the debaters are truthful too.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> It helps when the debaters are truthful too.


yes, and have the ability to see the other sides point sometimes...that way both sides learn a little from it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes it does... but in a lot of cases in comes down to interpretation and sometimes there are multiple ways to see something and this is what this board is about.... 

Ok.. So back on to the Voom Stigma.. I think in general a lot of people want to be wowed by HD. They pay a lot of money for it and they want what they watch today to be in HD. VOOM offers some nice content to watch but it definitely would not be what I would consider as what average Joe watches on a average day. 

I do find the Thunderbirds in HD to be very cool and the quality is exceptional given the age of the show. There is also a lot of other unique content but it definitely is not what joe average would watch daily, but then again there is a a bunch of other SD channels that fit that description. So when the person buys his set and then sees VOOM the first impression is .. Huh.. 5K for a TV so I can the ability to watch Thunderbirds in HD. 

I am seeing similar things happening with HD channels offering SD only content or stretching the SD content hoping people will not notice. I think a lot of people buy an HD channel witch expectations all will be HD and when they don't get it and they see VOOM all HD but older content that adds salt to the wounds. 

Funny thing.. 90% of my content watching is on a hand full of channels.. You would think that the stigma would be against all those other channels I don't watch also... Hmm perhaps it is and perhaps that is why people like the idea of ala cart programming.


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## wreck (Oct 27, 2007)

Are there any realistic estimates of the revenue actually generated by all the PPV's? I guess they must generate enough to warrant them to E* -- but I just don't quite believe it. Oh well!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> I think in general a lot of people want to be wowed by HD


yeah I'll admit, after getting HD, I can't stand to watch SD...but when I try to watch "TBS HD"...it drives me crazy. So i guess I would rather have a cha"TBS" style...although it would be sweet if they all could have the quality of the VOOM channels...I just wish VOOM would put on more updated stuff...I'd watch a lot more of it.


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## hipcheck (Feb 13, 2007)

I wish I could have my cake and eat it to. I initially liked Voom but have become bored with it due to constant repeats. Rave is very slow to mix in new concerts and the sports channel shows too many repeats for my taste.

I'd rather see fewer Voom channels with fresh programming. I'm sure the point will be moot in time, the D* marketing machine will force E* to add more national HD content.

HD-Net satisfies my need for stuff that looks cool in HD. Voom no longer interests me as much. But -- with all those channels, nothing wrong with variety.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Something interesting I have noticed more than once, but since it is happening again this month I thought I'd bring it up...

HDNet started showing a bunch of old Hitchcock movies... and people seem to be excited about that.

But... MonstersHD showed several of these movies last month.

I've seen it with some other movies too... like Seventh Sign and Rosemary's Baby come to mind... where MonstersHD has them for a month or so, then HDNet picks them up.

Couple that with EquatorHD selling some of its HD content to other channels (I forget if it was Discover or National Geographic that bought)... and I find it interesting that some of the same folks who bash Voom content seem to be happy when the stuff that has been on Voom for a while comes on a different channel.

Seems odd to me is all.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Something interesting I have noticed more than once, but since it is happening again this month I thought I'd bring it up...
> 
> HDNet started showing a bunch of old Hitchcock movies... and people seem to be excited about that.
> 
> ...


Can you please link to the posts of people that said they were happy when that stuff came on that said any negatives about VOOM - thanks.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> Can you please link to the posts of people that said they were happy when that stuff came on that said any negatives about VOOM - thanks.


I'm not going to play that game. Feel free to troll the forum and post links if you want.

The simple truth is that a lot of people bash Voom and then praise other channels, HDNet as an example, as being much better and less repeats... even when those channels are repeating stuff that Voom just showed in a previous month.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

I've seen a lot of people trashing HDNet as well in the past month or so - ever since they filed suit against DIRECTV.


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## hohlraum (Mar 8, 2007)

voom rocks if you don't mind that many of the movie based stations show the same movies over.. and over.. and over.. and over again. i'm not kidding when i say that if you are a horror fan that after about 2 months of watching Monsters HD you will spend little or no time watching it again.

another huge issue is more than once now in the last several months the program guide is completely out of sync or completely wrong with what is being shown. the hardest part for me is that Voom was the reason I chose Dish.

When my contract is up i don't really see much reason to stay with Dish. I'll probably go back to Charter. Their HD channels are way better quality anyway (assuming your service even works )


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Good OUT!

:lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps you have the wrong forum? This is not an E* vs D* battleground. This is an E* discussion forum. It isn't about winning and cheering for your side, it's about commenting on topic.

And some people wonder why these threads close ... stay on topic, please!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

ScoBuck said:


> Good OUT!
> 
> :lol:


Does that mean you aren't going to post in the Dish area...... again? I'd rather not have to dig up the old post where you said you were done posting in the dish area and wouldn't do it again.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hmm ... I thought he was complimenting hohlraum on outing something?

Anyways, :backtotop (that would be Voom)


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Richard King said:


> Does that mean you aren't going to post in the Dish area...... again? I'd rather not have to dig up the old post where you said you were done posting in the dish area and wouldn't do it again.


Post what you may - as long as I am not breaking forum rules (I try NOT to do that), I will post in any public forum I choose.

Back to topic. Thanks.


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## jimborst (Jun 13, 2006)

I just don't understand why anyone wants to post in a thread where they have no idea what is going on.

I have never been to the Direct TV side and have no intention to go there (I did go there once by mistake when a thread was moved) but I don't have Direct Tv so why would I care what they say, I only care what is on the Dish side!


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Let me help you understand. I am only a customer of DirecTV, not the owner. I am a moderator at another similar site, and I have an overall interest in what BOTH satellite companies are doing, as well as the other providers. 


People should be more than willing to listen to multiple points of view in these discussions. BTW, rest assured that many DISH subs DO visit AND post in the other forums also. 

Pretty common actually.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm with Jim as far as visiting the D* forums ... threads I was in before a move and reported posts come to my attention but I don't go looking for threads there. I care about D* ... it isn't the system that I have spent the most time following or investing in with equipment purchases but I'd like to see them do well. I'd like to see them do BETTER ... but there are enough D* subs with a vested interest in that system giving that point of view - people who have a real reason to complain. I don't need to spend my time in the D* areas - so generally, I don't. I have over 17k posts on DBSTalk ... only 286 have ended up in a "D*" forum. Not bad.

There are people who seem to spend a lot of their time in the forum for the company they did not choose. A bit confusing ... I assume some just want a fight. (No, I'm not going to list names.) But just as I note that there are plenty of D* customers unhappy with D* there are plenty of E* customers unhappy with E*. Having E* customers vent about their service is just part of the forum (within the forum rules). Having D* customers vent about E*'s service? that is just odd (in my humble opinion).

So back to topic ... *Why is there a stigma on Voom?* A question for E* customers, no doubt - unless former Voom customers want to vent (within reason) about the old days.

My first question is "IS THERE A STIGMA?" E* has 189 SD video channels (plus RSNs/etc) ... I don't care about most of them ... but I would not say there was a "stigma" attached. Some people seem to be dead against shopping and religious channels (that they don't pay for) - but that's the closest I can come to a "stigma".

But accepting for the sake of continuing that there is a stigma the best answer I can give is that the channels are misunderstood. Especially by those who have never had them.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> So back to topic ... Why is there a stigma on Voom? A question for E* customers, no doubt - unless former Voom customers want to vent (within reason) about the old days.


Since we don't know what D* or cable customers are former E* or VOOM customers...that pretty much leaves it open to everybody.



> When my contract is up i don't really see much reason to stay with Dish. I'll probably go back to Charter. Their HD channels are way better quality anyway
> (assuming your service even works )


the quality of their HD didn't seem any different than E* to me when i was with them..and the SD was pure garbage.



> voom rocks if you don't mind that many of the movie based stations show the same movies over.. and over.. and over.. and over again. i'm not kidding when i say that if you are a horror fan that after about 2 months of watching Monsters HD you will spend little or no time watching it again.


This seems to be the biggest or most common complaint i've seen as far as a "VOOM stigma"....repeats on a lot of the Voom channels...or hardly any "current content".


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I think their are two reasons for the stigma. 

1) Some feel not enough fresh content. Too many repeats. Also the content it too old. To still the a phrase... "Not compelling enough"
2) The feeling perhaps that the only roadblock standing between a persons personal sub's HD desires is bandwidth. VOOM is any easy target given its unique nature. 

Combine the two and you are ripe for a Stigma.. I don't necessarily agree with #1 or #2 but i can see where one might.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

richiephx said:


> Richard, I agree with you 100%. The people who are unhappy with E* should switch to another provider and stop complaining about how unhappy they are. But, I would bet dollars to donuts that, if they switched to D* they would find something else to complain about. Better yet, maybe they would be so happy that we won't have to hear from them again


Well if they switched then they'd probably be unhappy that the D* HD DVR only can record two things at a time instead of 2 sat channels plus a OTA.

If they got HR-21 DVR then they could complain about no OTA tuner.

IF neither of those then they could complain about the lack of polish in the HD DVRs interface. Anecdotal evidence from those that switched says the D* DVRs aren't a nice.

Some will never be happy.

Cheers


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> Well if they switched then they'd probably be unhappy that the D* HD DVR only can record two things at a time instead of 2 sat channels plus a OTA.
> 
> If they got HR-21 DVR then they could complain about no OTA tuner.
> 
> ...


once (if) E* adds the channels that D* has, and adds newer programing to *Voom *channels....then we can complain about people complaining about their provider....but until then, i think a lot of people have a legitimate gripe....some...don't....but once they catch up and add the most seeked channels in HD....then there will be little for them to complain about...but until then...we will have to get used to it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The most sought channels are only sought until one has them, then one seeks something else. (For D* subs, that could be more HD on their HD channels especially the "few channels that are not broadcasting any HD".)


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The most sought channels are only sought until one has them, then one seeks something else. (For D* subs, that could be more HD on their HD channels especially the "few channels that are not broadcasting any HD".)


I'd have to think the most sought channels were ones that a person has favorite shows on, that are broadcasted in HD...that they don't get now. SciFi and FX are two of mine, and i only have 2-3 shows on each that are in HD...as long as those are...i could really careless if the rest are of the content is.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

So - registered Republicans shouldn't be interested in the Democratic candidates views - or watch their debates?

How narrow a view that would be.

To have interest in what others are doing is in fact of interest to many - and yes I am included in that group.

Besides, this is a discussion about PROGRAMMING, not a pay provider. This thread is *not* about Dish Network - it IS about VOOM Networks. That being said, I live in CABLEVISIONS home town, the MAJORITY of people where I live have CABLEVISION - I have surfed thru those VOOM channels often.

I say to put the discussion in the proper forum -


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> The most sought channels are only sought until one has them, then one seeks something else. (For D* subs, that could be more HD on their HD channels especially the "few channels that are not broadcasting any HD".)


Funny - I read hundreds MORE threads by DISH subs wanting the DIRECTV HD channels, than I ever read of DIRECTV subs wanting any VOOM programming.

There are 7 threads in THIS forum from just the first 4 pages of it.

You can't dispute THAT fact. And THUS the stigma.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> So - registered Republicans shouldn't be interested in the Democratic candidates views - or watch their debates?


I try not to:lol:

j/k...i know what your saying and your right.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Since I am an installer I visit both E* and D* sides to see if I can answer questions. As for the stigma against VOOM channels I believe it was started by Charlie in a Charlie Chat before they got VOOM channels. He said there was no compelling content. I have had both D* and E* and for me they aren't worth the price. Now for people who watch more TV than me the price of Satellite TV may be worth it. I have seen the VOOM channels and they are OK but I prefer OTA quality and I can get 70 digital channels so I am happy. After Sky Angel is off satellite I may go to FTA because I cannot get a fast enough connection to get their IPTV.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

I can't believe this thread is still going. LOL

I'm still not tired of the Voom channels. My friends have been coming by these past few weeks as it seems I'm the first person they've met who switched away from Time Horror to DBS.

The Voom channels get the most 'oooh's and 'aaaah's regarding the PQ. Personally, I've not yet thought about being tired of them. Monsters, in particular, will likely be my impetus for getting an external HDD... and I no longer think about CNN Headline News when I need a quick fix... it's HDNews all the way.

The E*/D* pi$$ing contest over who has more channels than the other will be something for us to all laugh about a few months from now anyway...

"Hey. Do you remember when the boards were filled with all those threads keeping track of the # of channels?...... " I guess it's something to do, right?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> So - registered Republicans shouldn't be interested in the Democratic candidates views - or watch their debates?


This isn't about politics ... but a registered Republican shouldn't caucus or vote in a Democrat primary nor a registered Democrat caucus or vote in a Republican primary. It is a problem that both political parties face (especially in states where the primaries are open and people are free to cross over in years where one party doesn't need a primary). Some people live to be the spoiler.



> Besides, this is a discussion about PROGRAMMING, not a pay provider. This thread is *not* about Dish Network - it IS about VOOM Networks. That being said, I live in CABLEVISIONS home town, the MAJORITY of people where I live have CABLEVISION - I have surfed thru those VOOM channels often.


This is a DBS discussion site (hence the accuracy of the name, DBSTalk). A thread was started in the E* section of that forum.



> I say to put the discussion in the proper forum -


If you have any problem with the moderation of our forum please PM a moderator. It is a moderation decision to leave this thread here and a moderation decision to leave it open. Please don't press the moderation into any other action that you would not agree with with public complaints.



ScoBuck said:


> Funny - I read hundreds MORE threads by DISH subs wanting the DIRECTV HD channels, than I ever read of DIRECTV subs wanting any VOOM programming.


I believe your count is incorrect. There are not hundreds of threads by E* subs requesting D*'s "HD" channels. It actually seems that the number one supporters of adding D*'s HD to E* (by volume and loudness) are apparent D* subs. Thanks for the support.



> You can't dispute THAT fact. And THUS the stigma.


Customers wanting more HD doesn't add to or create a stigma on the HD they have. Would you say that there was a stigma on the 10 HD channels D* had in September because of the desire of D* customers to have the channels now added? Would you say that there is a stigma on D* HD channels now because of the desire of D* customers to have even more channels added? That's the argument you make when you bring in irrelevant comments about the desire for other channels.

Let's talk about Voom HD on E* ... :backtotop


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

bartendress said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going. LOL


Me neither ... and I apologize for allowing it to live.



> I no longer think about CNN Headline News when I need a quick fix... it's HDNews all the way.


A good idea. CNN seems to have gone themed on us anyways ... and even when they have different anchors each hour they seem to be doing an hour on the same story. HDNews is a good alternative.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> It actually seems that the number one supporters of adding D*'s HD to E* (by volume and loudness) are apparent D* subs. Thanks for the support.


ehhh...i think your seriously reaching on that one...all though i don't know the numbers, it's easy to see that a lot E* subs on here want those channels.


> A good idea. CNN seems to have gone themed on us anyways ... and even when they have different anchors each hour they seem to be doing an hour on the same story. HDNews is a good alternative.


I agree on how they stay on one subject and wear it out...Fox does the same thing, but i got tired of HDNews really quick....it's like "headline news"....just in HD...i usually bounce between cnn, fox, and cnn...those 3 in HD would be nice...lol


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Actually, the best way to close a thread, if desired, is for the original poster to request that it be closed. That will, typically, result in the thread being closed.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Thread closed


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