# Who has actually switched from HR22 to HR23?



## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

Has anyone switched from an HR22 to an HR23 and hooked the HR23 up using the same TV, cables, and dish that the HR22 was hooked to? That would mean all things would be the same except the receiver?

After doing this, is their a noticeable difference in picture or sound quality with the HR23?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes I have HR21's (the same as an HR22 with the smaller disk) but I didn't notice any differences in picture or sound from my HR23.

Happy International Programmers Day!
Tom


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

Fact 1
DTV has this page on their site describing what they call the "DIRECTV Plus HD DVR".
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380062

Fact 2
They're currently giving new subs either an HR22 or an HR23 depending on availability.

This tells me that DTV feels they are equal in terms of recording capacity and features.

This link only compares the HR23 with the HR20 and HR21, but not the HR22.
http://hr20.dbstalk.com/HR23-700 First Look.pdf

What am I missing? I want the latest & greatest and need to decide if it's worth replacing my HR22 with an HR23.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

The only difference is the HR23 has wide band tuners and do not need the BBC's. The HR22 does not and it needs BBC's unless you are using an SWM.


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

Michael D'Angelo;1950618 said:


> The only difference is the HR23 has wide band tuners and do not need the BBC's. The HR22 does not and it needs BBC's unless you are using an SWM.


That makes me think there's more work(maybe extra decoding or conversion of some sort) being done by my HR22, possibly resulting in a slightly inferior picture and sound on my HR22.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

bighoopla said:


> That makes me think there's more work(maybe extra decoding or conversion of some sort) being done by my HR22, possibly resulting in a slightly inferior picture and sound on my HR22.


Well I can tell you I have an HR21 (same as an HR22 but smaller hard drive) and an HR23 connected to the same TV (both connected HDMI) and don't see or hear any difference.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Michael D'Angelo;1950629 said:


> Well I can tell you I have an HR21 (same as an HR22 but smaller hard drive) and an HR23 connected to the same TV (both connected HDMI) and don't see or hear any difference.


Same experience here.

I moved my receivers around when I got the HR23. Put an HR23 in place of an HR21 that replaced the HR20 in my bedroom and then connected that HR20 to the same TV as the HR23 (all via HDMI) without any noticeable differences in picture or sound.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

bighoopla said:


> That makes me think there's more work(maybe extra decoding or conversion of some sort) being done by my HR22, possibly resulting in a slightly inferior picture and sound on my HR22.


You'd be mistaken. The main advantage to the HR23 is from a manufacturing and support point of view: fewer components lowers manufacturing costs and fewer parts (no BBCs) means fewer components to fail, requiring replacement. Wideband tuners weren't economically available until recently, which is why they weren't put in the earlier receivers.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Threads merged.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I wonder what kind of Broadcom chipset is used in the HR22 and the HR23. 

Is it the BCM7335 or the BCM7401 in the HR22?

That could make a slight improvement in PQ & AQ and maybe a boost in speed performance.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Why would you want to switch from a HR22 to a HR23?

IMHO, there is no need to.

I guess I could understand switching from a HR20/HR21 because of the larger capacity.

I just don't see any reason to drop a HR22 for a HR23.

As for "perceived' increase in PQ, I did a blind test. My wife set it up and I came into the room. She swapped back and forth and I was able to pick the HR23 twelve out of thirteen times.

*Now here comes the rub.*


The differences were so small in some cases it took me several minutes and continuously swapping back and forth to make a choice.
My TV is has 768 lines (not 720 or 1080) so how it internally scales the picture may have something to do with it. 
Some would say that it is *absolutely impossible* for there to be any difference in picture quality from one DVR to the other and that I'm delusional if it believe I saw any increase in PQ .

IOW you are unlikely to notice any difference in PQ by merely installing a HR23.

As far as audio goes, I didn't really notice any difference in quality.

My point this is: IMHO if you want the extra capacity, then by all means trade your HR20/HR21 for a HR22/HR23. However, there is no need to dump a perfectly good HR22 for a HR23. :grin:

Mike


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Why would you want to switch from a HR22 to a HR23?
> 
> IMHO, there is no need to.
> 
> ...


That's the only reason I swapped the HR21 in my living room for the new HR22 I got a month ago. I wanted an HDTV for the bedroom and ordered a new receiver from Directv. When the HR22 arrived I decided to take advantage of the HR22's larger drive in the location that got the most usage. Simple as that. PQ is the same on both units, cosmetics are the same, etc. Unless someone offered me a free HR23, I wouldn't bother changing a thing.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

When, if ever, is the HR23 going to be available at retail? I would like this box but the HD DVRs offered at D*tvs website are non-specific. What's up with that? Order from their website and with blind luck get a HR23? You get what we've got, you don't have a choice? Also, I see no reason why I should have to explain why I want a HR23.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Directv is allowing me to swap out my HR10-250 for the HR23-700. 

However, since they can't guarantee that I will get an HR23 they have allowed me $99 credit towards the purchase of an HR23 and I just bought one yesterday.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

richierich said:


> Directv is allowing me to swap out my HR10-250 for the HR23-700.
> 
> However, since they can't guarantee that I will get an HR23 they have allowed me $99 credit towards the purchase of an HR23 and I just bought one yesterday.


Where, may I ask, did you buy it? I can't find it at retail anywhere.


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## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

johnp37 said:


> Where, may I ask, did you buy it? I can't find it at retail anywhere.


Same here - I'd be interested in seeing where it's available.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bighoopla said:


> Fact 1
> DTV has this page on their site describing what they call the "DIRECTV Plus HD DVR".
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380062
> 
> ...


I always go with the 700s and wouldn't have 100 if I could get one free. And I've been offered a free HR, but with no guarantee as to the model and have refused because I'm afraid a 22-100 would show up.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

say-what said:


> Same experience here.
> 
> I moved my receivers around when I got the HR23. Put an HR23 in place of an HR21 that replaced the HR20 in my bedroom and then connected that HR20 to the same TV as the HR23 (all via HDMI) without any noticeable differences in picture or sound.


That's discouraging, the "First Look" said improved PQ and sound If I remember correctly.

Rich


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> That's discouraging, the "First Look" said improved PQ and sound If I remember correctly.
> 
> Rich


I think it is _encouraging_, not _discouraging_, that the units we already have may provide the same quality as the new one.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

rich584 said:


> That's discouraging, the "First Look" said improved PQ and sound If I remember correctly.
> 
> Rich


It does, and it's been noted in the 1st look thread that it is a subjective comment as there was no way to quantify those observations. But it's not discouraging, the HR23 delivers outstanding AV signals.

As an example of how subjective this sort of thing can be, my parents originally had an HR21-200 that flaked out 4 months after being installed. They got an HR21-700 as a replacement and they swear the PQ is better on the replacement, although I don't really notice it.


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## rdw6 (Mar 28, 2007)

How does one go about upgrading? I have the original HR20-700 and another HR20-100.

I also have the monthly 5.99 DIRECTV Protection Plan Monthly 

Can I call them up and have both of my DVR's upgraded for free to something with larger Drives.

Thanks.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

bighoopla said:


> Fact 1
> DTV has this page on their site describing what they call the "DIRECTV Plus HD DVR".
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380062
> 
> ...


The HR22 is the exact same as the HR21 except the hard drive size. At the time the first look was written, the HR22 was not publicly available. Any visual comparison of the HR22 would also apply to the same manufacturer's HR21.



richierich said:


> I wonder what kind of Broadcom chipset is used in the HR22 and the HR23.


If anyone wants to pay cash to own both receivers, then remove the heatsinks from the chips which are glued on, therefore destroying both receivers, I'd be interested in finding out. Personally, I like my DVRs and don't want to destroy them.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

rdw6 said:


> How does one go about upgrading? I have the original HR20-700 and another HR20-100.
> 
> I also have the monthly 5.99 DIRECTV Protection Plan Monthly
> 
> ...


They will gladly ship you one if you pay the required upfront fees ($99 - $199) and take an HR20 back if you deactivate it. They won't swap a functioning HR20 for an HR23.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> That's discouraging, the "First Look" said improved PQ and sound If I remember correctly.
> 
> Rich


Why is it discouraging?

Is there something wrong with the picture you have now?

Mike


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## gmidkiff (May 8, 2007)

After dealing with the 771 errors and low tuner 2 signals on my HR20-100, I called Directv last month and they scheduled a service call. The tech changed the BBC's and told me to try that for awhile. Things went from bad to worse and I called the tech back and he said he would replace the receiver next. I told him to wait until he got the HR23-700.

He called yesterday to say he had one and came today and swapped out the receiver. So far the the 771 errors are gone.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

gmidkiff said:


> After dealing with the 771 errors and low tuner 2 signals on my HR20-100, I called Directv last month and they scheduled a service call. The tech changed the BBC's and told me to try that for awhile. Things went from bad to worse and I called the tech back and he said he would replace the receiver next. I told him to wait until he got the HR23-700.
> 
> He called yesterday to say he had one and came today and swapped out the receiver. So far the the 771 errors are gone.


Kinda makes me wonder how many problems can be traced to BBCs.


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## wideglide36 (Jan 14, 2004)

I previously had an HR21-100 and it was replaced (constantly resetting) with an HR23-700.
It may just be me, but I immediately thought the picture was better.
Don't get me wrong, I thought the picture was great on the HR21-100, but it actually looks a little better on the HR23-700.
Probably just me.........


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

rich584 said:


> I always go with the 700s and wouldn't have 100 if I could get one free. And I've been offered a free HR, but with no guarantee as to the model and have refused because I'm afraid a 22-100 would show up.
> 
> Rich


What does the 100, 200, or 700 mean at the end of these unit model numbers? Version numbers would make sense, but there's never been an HR23-100 or 200. They jumped out the gate with 700.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

bighoopla said:


> What does the 100, 200, or 700 mean at the end of these unit model numbers? Version numbers would make sense, but there's never been an HR23-100 or 200. They jumped out the gate with 700.


It stands for the different manufactures of the units.


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

wideglide36 said:


> I previously had an HR21-100 and it was replaced (constantly resetting) with an HR23-700.


I'm the original posted for this thread, and this is one of the reasons I'm considering switching from an HR22-100 to the HR23-700.

I just upgraded to HDTV 4 days ago. They brought me a brand new HR22-100 and it has reset itself twice while I'm watching programs. It causes the TV to turn off and back on simultaneously with it. Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the receiver to reboot; hence causing me to miss 5 minutes of the program I was watching. Plus, I don't like the idea of my brand new TV being subjected to a sudden power surge like that.

Did your TV reset along with the receiver?

Disclaimer: My issue could be a power source issue(but maybe not), which I haven't troubleshot yet. This has been pointed out to me in a previous post here on DBSTALK.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I had some very brief power glitches a few days ago during a storm. One of them was so short that my digital clocks didn't even reset, but my HR21 did. My HR20 is on a UPS so it didn't have any problems. I have now added a UPS to my HR21 as well.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

bobnielsen said:


> I had some very brief power glitches a few days ago during a storm. One of them was so short that my digital clocks didn't even reset, but my HR21 did. My HR20 is on a UPS so it didn't have any problems. I have now added a UPS to my HR21 as well.


You're a smart man. Once I put my on the Battery Backup I had no more reboots and I am more comfortable with some degree of surge protection and line conditioning.


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

bighoopla said:


> Did your TV reset along with the receiver?


This is a big pointer towards a power issue. How many devices do you have hooked up to that outlet ?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

bighoopla said:


> What does the 100, 200, or 700 mean at the end of these unit model numbers? Version numbers would make sense, but there's never been an HR23-100 or 200. They jumped out the gate with 700.


Manufacturers 
-100 is made by RCA/Thompson
-200 is made by Samsung
-300 is made by Philips
-600 is made by LG
-700 is made by PACE Electronics


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## wideglide36 (Jan 14, 2004)

bighoopla said:


> I'm the original posted for this thread, and this is one of the reasons I'm considering switching from an HR22-100 to the HR23-700.
> 
> I just upgraded to HDTV 4 days ago. They brought me a brand new HR22-100 and it has reset itself twice while I'm watching programs. It causes the TV to turn off and back on simultaneously with it. Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the receiver to reboot; hence causing me to miss 5 minutes of the program I was watching. Plus, I don't like the idea of my brand new TV being subjected to a sudden power surge like that.
> 
> ...


bighoopla,
No, the tv did not reset or anything else. It was strictly the HR21-100 resetting out of the blue. It took almost 15minutes each time it reset so you were lucky it only took 5 minutes.
So far so good with the HR23-700. Keeping my fingers crossed......


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

wideglide36 said:


> bighoopla,
> No, the tv did not reset or anything else. It was strictly the HR21-100 resetting out of the blue. It took almost 15minutes each time it reset so you were lucky it only took 5 minutes.
> So far so good with the HR23-700. Keeping my fingers crossed......


Thanks....maybe mine is a power issue.


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## bighoopla (Jan 4, 2009)

Mertzen said:


> This is a big pointer towards a power issue. How many devices do you have hooked up to that outlet ?


I have an extremely simple bare bones set-up right now...HR22 plugged directly in a wall outlet...TV plugged into a surge protector powerstrip which is plugged into a different wall outlet than the receiver. The two outlets do share the same electrical circuit though. One lamp is in the room too. It's plugged into a 3rd outlet which is on a different electrical circuit than the TV & receiver. I'm remodeling, so the set-up is temporary.


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## PatrickGSR94 (Nov 12, 2008)

So I don't suppose there's any chance of the HR23 being faster than the HR22? Mine is soooo freaking slow! Compared to my H23 anyway.

But no external BBC's would be nice. I hate those things sticking out the back of the HR22. They're so stiff and they just stick right off the back of the shelf under the TV, hanging right out in mid-air.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

PatrickGSR94 said:


> So I don't suppose there's any chance of the HR23 being faster than the HR22? Mine is soooo freaking slow! Compared to my H23 anyway.
> 
> But no external BBC's would be nice. I hate those things sticking out the back of the HR22. They're so stiff and they just stick right off the back of the shelf under the TV, hanging right out in mid-air.


Mine responds on par with my HR20 and HR21 - I haven't had any complaints regarding GUI/remote speed. No idea about the HR22, don't have one.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Hmm... I may be wrong, but unless you're having problems with a unit, or running out of disk capacity for recording on a regular basis, why would you want to "upgrade" a DVR?

I have an HR20-700 (original), HR21-100 and HR21-700 and all three of them have the same features and quality.

If I were to upgrade one of those, not only would I have to pay for the lease charge on the new receiver (unless of course it was replacing a bad one under my Protection Plan) and extend my contract another 2 years.

Just doesn't make sense to me unless there's a problem that I'm running into.


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## mgtr (Apr 11, 2008)

Just for info, D* offered a free HD DVR for being a 10 year customer. I obviously took it. The technician is here now, and is installing an HR23-700, which, from what I read here is OK. I guess what you get is just the luck of the draw.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bighoopla said:


> What does the 100, 200, or 700 mean at the end of these unit model numbers? Version numbers would make sense, but there's never been an HR23-100 or 200. They jumped out the gate with 700.


And they jumped out with the best of the HR manufacturers. Smart business move.

Rich


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And they jumped out with the best of the HR manufacturers. Smart business move.
> 
> Rich


FWIW, YMMV!

My -100s seem just as good as my -700.


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

If you had an HR21 and had slow responses from the unit and upgraded to an HR22/HR23 did you notice any differences?

I am just fed up with the slowness of the HR21. I have 3 HR20s with the hard drives being at or near 85% filled and have no slowness issues. Yet my HR21 has 5% filled (95% free) and it takes WAY too long. I have rebooted, swapped hard drives, etc but its just slow.


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## PatrickGSR94 (Nov 12, 2008)

When I say my HR22 is slow, I'm comparing to my H23 standalone (not DVR). Someone over on AVSforum said that's "just the way it is" because there's "more going on" inside the DVR box than just a regular HD box. Not really the answer I wanted to hear but oh well.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

PatrickGSR94 said:


> When I say my HR22 is slow, I'm comparing to my H23 standalone (not DVR). Someone over on AVSforum said that's "just the way it is" because there's "more going on" inside the DVR box than just a regular HD box. Not really the answer I wanted to hear but oh well.


THat's true... I do believe that there is a lot more processing going on in the DVR than in a standalone receiver. I just don't have a high def standalone to compare against.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The HR23-700 uses the Broadcam BCM5325 chipset. I would never have guessed that.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

richierich said:


> The HR23-700 uses the Broadcam BCM5325 chipset. I would never have guessed that.


that's just the ethernet switch.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes I just found out that. Does it use the BCM7401?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

richierich said:


> Yes I just found out that. Does it use the BCM7401?


think so. same as the hr21/hr22. we think. no one has noticed a speed improvement so that's the guess but no one has actually looked under the head sink


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## Coumyl (Sep 10, 2007)

I Just replaced my HR20-100 for a HR23 today and i didn't notice any big difference in picture quality or sound. The only thing I did notice was that it runs very quiet compaired to my old HR20 and the hard drive was larger of course.


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

why does swm not need bbc's


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

richierich said:


> Yes I just found out that. Does it use the BCM7401?


Nobody has opened their HR23 as yet and DirecTV hasn't said what the chipset is.

Anything at this point is speculation. :grin:

Mike


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## Tybee Bill (Oct 21, 2008)

richierich said:


> Directv is allowing me to swap out my HR10-250 for the HR23-700.
> 
> However, since they can't guarantee that I will get an HR23 they have allowed me $99 credit towards the purchase of an HR23 and I just bought one yesterday.


Most of the posting I have seen has been that they replaced a HR10-250 with a HR2X for free because HR10 were not leased, many paid a lot of money for them (as high as $999) and the now longer function as HD DVRs.

I got mine for free.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I could have received an HR2X for FREE but I wanted an HR23-700 and they couldn't guarantee that and my local installer here didn't have that DVR yet so I found one and bought it and they gave me $99 credit towards that purchase which was $160 so I paid $61 out of pocket to get the specific unit I wanted, the HR23-700.

I also got Upgraded for FREE to a 16 Port 6 X 16 Zinwell Multiswitch to replace my 6 X 8 Port Multiswitch. Not bad DIRECTV, way to go!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> why does swm not need bbc's


BBCs are needed only to make the B-Band (from the Ka Satellites) visible to the receiver. The HR23-700 uses a wideband tuner so it can see the signals without relocating the B-Band. SWM is a different technology altogether and as a result BBCs don't play a part.

The bottom line is that the tuners that come in the older receivers (HR20, HR21 & HR22 - plus some others) are not capable of seeing the B-Band. DIRECTV devices a "trick" that made it possible for these receivers to see those signals. This "trick" is what is inside the BBCs.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The new SATELLITES, 99c & 103c, are Ka-Lo which come from the Dish in the 250-750 MHz band. These need to be upconverted to 1650-2150 MHz for the receiver. 

SWM doesn’t require this upconversion. 

Also, the HR23 doesn't require this upconversion because it is done by the Internal Wideband Tuner which upconverts the 250-750 MHz frequency range to the 1650-2150 frequency range which is why the other HR2X DVRs need BBCs to provide the same upconversion.

That is why OTA channels can't be diplexed into the stream unless they are taken out before the BBCs do their upconverison or they will not be recognized as OTA because they will not exist in their normal frequency range.


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