# Best 50 Mile OTA Antenna for Attic



## bocoogto (Feb 25, 2008)

I now have an OLD large multi-gang antenna in my attic for OTA with my AM21 and HR23. I get some of the 9 OTA locals that Direct TV does not broadcast via satellite from Green Bay, Wisconsin at my location 50 miles southwest in Winneconne, Wisconsin. There is, however pixelating on Channel 11.1 Fox and the PBS channels 38.1, 2, & 3. Channel 52.1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 are received through my analog TV's with coverter boxes, but not with the AM21. 

I've heard the Radio Shack HD antenna works well. Anyone have suggestions?


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

I bought and installed the RS (so-called) 90 mile version years ago and its worked well for me, but then I am not at the distances you are. Its not the cheapest, but has served me well.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

I have a Clearstream 4 in the attic. I was able to assemble it downstairs and still get it through a small opening into the attic. Compact, but works well. Avsforum.com has an area where they discuss OTA reception. Probably some folks there would have suggestions as well.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

Most of my channels are only 15 miles away, but I am getting an 80% signal on one UHF station that is 80 miles away with the following attic equipment:

AntennaCraft HBU22

Channel Master VHF/UHF Antenna Preamplifier with Power Supply


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Definitely check the AVS forum. Great source of OTA info.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Nicholsen said:


> Definitely check the AVS forum. Great source of OTA info.


+1

Find the thread specifically for your city/area and ask it there and you'll most likely get specific advice from people that live close by. Can't get any better then that! See the links in my signature over to AVS locals forum.

antennaweb.org will also give you a decent idea of what kinda of antenna you'll need for your area.


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## dtomlinson (Aug 7, 2007)

If you check antennaweb.org, you can find exact information for type of antenna, pointing directions, etc. for your location. It's a really good starting point. It will also tell you if the channels are broadcast on UHF, VHF, or both. This will also help in knowing what type of antenna to buy. Hope this helps,

Dan


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## Wisegoat (Aug 17, 2006)

Winegard HD-8200.

Deep fringe UHF/VHF elements. I get all of the Los Angeles locals without issue and I am about 60 miles from Mt. Wilson. I also was getting an analog version of channel 6 out of San Diego until the analog cut-off.

Well built antenna. I have had it for 6 years now with 0 issues.

Should be around $160.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

bocoogto said:


> I now have an OLD large multi-gang antenna in my attic for OTA with my AM21 and HR23. I get some of the 9 OTA locals that Direct TV does not broadcast via satellite from Green Bay, Wisconsin at my location 50 miles southwest in Winneconne, Wisconsin. There is, however pixelating on Channel 11.1 Fox and the PBS channels 38.1, 2, & 3. Channel 52.1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 are received through my analog TV's with coverter boxes, but not with the AM21.
> 
> I've heard the Radio Shack HD antenna works well. Anyone have suggestions?


You may have two problems:

1. Weak signal, which an antenna can address, but be sure to go to avsforum and find your local users, as they will save you a lot of time. If you're technically inclined you can go to tvfool.com and see what stations you should be receiving, based on distance and terrain, as well as transmit power. Go to the avsforum user group first.

2. The guide info for your D* receiver may be incorrect, and in that case, no amount of antenna fiddling will pick up the stations. Your digital boxes are getting their info off the air from a scan, while the D* sets are getting it from an all too frequently erroneous database supplied by Tribune to D*.

(If the inability to receive channels is recent (used to work on D*) boxes, redo the antenna setup completely (reset it and start over) and see if some, if not all the channels reappear.)

For problem #2, you need to contact Tribune Media at Zap2it.com, and perhaps call your local station TV engineer and enlist his help. D* is unlikely to solve the problem.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Compare for yourself at:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

If you are also interested in VHF 8-13 as well as UHF, I recommend the CM 4228, which is probably the best all-around UHF antenna out there (solid performance for us in a highly-reflective urban environment aiming between two skyscrapers). Listed as a UHF-only, it is so strong it also outperforms most UHF/VHF combos for channels 8-13. The price is right ($60) and it is compact enough to use in an attic, compared to yagis.

50 miles could be pushing it (although 90 miles is possible), but the CM4228 has the best directionality and gain, which is what you need. You may also want a CM preamp, as their preamps have the lowest noise figures.


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## taz291819 (Oct 19, 2006)

Agree with TomCat, the CM4228 is one of if not the best UHF antenna. It picked up stations at 62 miles, though I did have it outdoors. Another great UHF antenna is the Antennas Direct 91-XG. Performed just as well as the CM4228, but is a little more directional. It's more expensive than the CM4228, but it is a lot lighter.


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## gcd0865 (Jul 23, 2008)

My antennas are currently in my attic, and in my area (fairly flat terrain, with no multipath problems), good quality antenna(s) will receive up to about 50-55 miles from the attic and 65-75 miles outside. This assumes standard plywood and shingle roofing materials. I prefer separate VHF and UHF antennas, joined by a UVSJ, because you can get good gain figures with not-too-huge size that way.

For VHF-high, I have a Winegard YA-1713, which has a 9-10 dB gain rating, and it's quite good, at a reasonable cost, and fits in an attic. My receiver requires a signal strength of over about 37-ish to lock a signal, and my YA-1713 will not lock digital channels 11 and 13 at 65 miles distance from my attic, except sometimes late at night. My recent outside test with this antenna at chimney height locked both channels at 64 on the meter. So I'd have to move the YA-1713 outside to make those channels reliable in digital. That having been said, the YA-1713 would perhaps work at 50 miles for you from your attic, and it's one of the better VHF-highs out there.

For UHF, I have both a pseudo-CM4228 (actually two original version 4221s joined together) and a 91XG. They are very close to each other in reception capability, as they will both lock a 52-mile station from the attic. 55-65-mile stations only come in from the attic at night, but again would be reliable outside. I also hear that the DB8 is very similar. An advantage of using the more compact 4228 or DB8 in an attic is that they might be able to rotate on a rotor inside an attic at a fairly high central location, which is best for reception, whereas a 91XG might not be able to rotate, or must be mounted a few feet lower to do so. I found that every foot of height in my attic was very important, so go to the highest point possible. The YA-1713, due to also not being too long, can be mounted fairly high in an attic as well (in a fixed position).

Also, back in analog, my 4228 provided about 60-70% of the signal strength on VHF 11 and 13, compared to the YA-1713, which isn't bad. The new 4228HD is supposed to be better on VHF-high, but supposedly at the expense of some UHF gain, and I doubt that either a 4228 or 4228HD would receive VHF-high in digital from an attic at 50 miles distance.

Hope this is helpful...


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

taz291819 said:


> Agree with TomCat, the CM4228 is one of if not the best UHF antenna. It picked up stations at 62 miles, though I did have it outdoors. Another great UHF antenna is the Antennas Direct 91-XG. Performed just as well as the CM4228, but is a little more directional. It's more expensive than the CM4228, but it is a lot lighter.


I would go so far as to say the 91XG is probably superior to the CM4228 in an attic mount situation because of its superior rejection of multipath, and there's often a lot of multipath going on inside an attic.


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## JimAtTheRez (May 9, 2008)

In this vein, I have an old analog TV at work with whatever a Best Buy's brand converter box attached to it. I am using an antennae that I was using at home, and my 2 local stations that I can't receive with any certainty are both within 17 miles. However, one is on RF 7 and the other is RF 12. When I had this antennae at home (actually 10 miles farther from the towers), 12 came in great, but 7 was iffy. My question(s): Is this an antennae problem, or is this a converter box problem (at home this antennae was hooked to my HR 20-100)? I have seriously considered trying a newer TV without the converter box. Thanks in advance for your advice.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I have a converter from Best Buy which is the Apex brand. It picks up a few stations which my HR20-700 does not, for whatever that is worth.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

JimAtTheRez said:


> In this vein, I have an old analog TV at work with whatever a Best Buy's brand converter box attached to it. I am using an antennae that I was using at home, and my 2 local stations that I can't receive with any certainty are both within 17 miles. However, one is on RF 7 and the other is RF 12. When I had this antennae at home (actually 10 miles farther from the towers), 12 came in great, but 7 was iffy. My question(s): Is this an antennae problem, or is this a converter box problem (at home this antennae was hooked to my HR 20-100)? I have seriously considered trying a newer TV without the converter box. Thanks in advance for your advice.


I would strongly suggest it would be the antenna or the coax. At 17 miles, you should be able to get a signal with a single wire plugged into your converter box. I am 25 miles from our stations at work, we also have a RF 7 PBS, and RF 12 CBS. I am using an OLD BENT UP Radio Shack, with like 3 VHF V shaped elements, and 5 or 6 UHF elements, with the coax center conductor screwed to one 300 ohm terminal, and the sheild to another (no balun here), and get 90+ signals from stations not only in the direction the antenna is pointed, but from two that are almost 90 degrees off. There is something wrong here. Is it possibly you have a UHF only antenna? If thats the case, at 17 miles, get the cheapest Radio Shack antenna they have (Think its a VU45) and try it. If it doesnt work, take it back.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

ziggy29 said:


> I would go so far as to say the 91XG is probably superior to the CM4228 in an attic mount situation because of its superior rejection of multipath, and there's often a lot of multipath going on inside an attic.


Does this one pick up high VHF? I'm in the market for an antenna and I need to pick up 7 and 9 along with the UHF frequencies.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> Does this one pick up high VHF? I'm in the market for an antenna and I need to pick up 7 and 9 along with the UHF frequencies.


Where are you located? Please be as specific as possible. I also had to do an antenna switch since ABC7 & CH.9 in the NY metro area went from UHF to VHF.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

ziggy29 said:


> I would go so far as to say the 91XG is probably superior to the CM4228 in an attic mount situation because of its superior rejection of multipath, and there's often a lot of multipath going on inside an attic.


 The difference in net gain is 1 to 2 dB, which is not really significant. And the raw gain, which is the determining factor in multipath rejection and directivity, may be closer than that.

Multipath can be divided into two separate issues, early reflections and late reflections. Early reflections, such as those created by close objects such as the walls of an attic, can be all but completely disregarded, as modern ATSC tuners are very sophisticated in the area of active equalization for cancelling out early reflections. The multipath that is problematic for ATSC is that from late reflections, such as from a nearby building or watertower, and directionality is the key for combating that, which both antennae are fairly equal at.

IOW, while the attic walls may increase multipath for early reflections, this does not significantly affect reception or the level of multipath rejection by the entire (antenna/amp/downlead/tuner) reception/distribution system. What is more of a problem is attenuation of the signal, especially if the attic is lined with foil insulation or the structure is screened for stucco exterior, which is especially bad for VHF signals.

So for the above issues (disregarding VHF for the moment), both antennae are about equal, except for the fact that the 4228 is both cheaper and easier to hang in an attic.

The deciding factor for the OP, which is why I suggested the 4228, is the 4228's ability to receive high VHF very well, an attribute not shared by the "91XG" [sic]. The OP is concerned about VHF 11. From the sheets and from my personal experience with the 4228 in a hostile (highly-reflective) environment, I can all but guarantee terrific performance on 8, 10, and 12, which implies great performance on 11 (the jury is still out on 7), as well as nearly-unmatched performance on UHF. While my situation is at under 10 miles, the addition of an attic preamp (hopefully one from Channel Master) should make the CM 4228 the antenna of choice for the OP.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

JimAtTheRez said:


> ...my 2 local stations that I can't receive with any certainty are both within 17 miles. However, one is on RF 7 and the other is RF 12. When I had this antennae at home (actually 10 miles farther from the towers), 12 came in great, but 7 was iffy. My question(s): Is this an antennae problem, or is this a converter box problem (at home this antennae was hooked to my HR 20-100)? I have seriously considered trying a newer TV without the converter box. Thanks in advance for your advice.


A newer TV does not really imply that it will have a better tuner than the one in your converter (also new). Tuner technology, as far as its ability to receive difficult signals, always improves with time, but has leveled off dramatically so that modern tuners are all about the same. In contrast, 3-10 years ago, improvement was rapid and dramatic in ATSC tuners. It is very doubtful that the converter is to blame.

IOW, you will probably be happier with a new (HD) TV, but it will very likely not guarantee better reception of 7 and 12.

The first question to be answered is whether you are using a UHF-only antenna, which your complaint is a classic indicator of. Many "HD" antennae are UHF-only, as that was how the HD world worked until June 12th. Also, is this a set-top antenna?


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

johnp37 said:


> Where are you located? Please be as specific as possible. I also had to do an antenna switch since ABC7 & CH.9 in the NY metro area went from UHF to VHF.


I'm in Denver. If you really want specifics, I'm near the tech center, about 19 miles from the transmitters on Lookout Mountain.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Go to www.solidsignal.com and check out the Winegard GS2200 along with it's Wingman attachment for additional UHF gain. Attic installation gets me 95% to 100% signal strength 26 miles from the NYC transmitters. Under $40 without the optional Wingman.


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## Jlg (Sep 11, 2006)

It I might ask a question of the experts, I have two groups of stations, one at 49 degrees true north, and one at 132 degrees, so they are 83 degrees apart. The antenna has to be in the attic and the stations are within 10 miles and I get some signal no matter what direction I point the antenna. Group one is rf 9 and 17, group two is 13,29,and 31
Even this close, I have pixelation problems with only one antenna pointed in between. Should I try combining two antennas, and if so, what antennas, and what do I use to combine them so they don't interfere with each other?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Jlg said:


> It I might ask a question of the experts, I have two groups of stations, one at 49 degrees true north, and one at 132 degrees, so they are 83 degrees apart. The antenna has to be in the attic and the stations are within 10 miles and I get some signal no matter what direction I point the antenna. Group one is rf 9 and 17, group two is 13,29,and 31
> Even this close, I have pixelation problems with only one antenna pointed in between. Should I try combining two antennas, and if so, what antennas, and what do I use to combine them so they don't interfere with each other?


Is the terrain to both stations open? At 10 miles, an omnidirectional antenna with preamp (at the antenna) would work just fine, assuming normal power from the transmitters. This won't be true if any of the transmitters are very low power. I think you would have better luck with an omni antenna with preamp than trying to combine, because the two locations overlap in frequency, and this is just asking for problems.

If I were in your situation, I would look for a small omnidirectional antenna that covered hi-band vhf up to uhf, and put a channel master CM-7777 antenna mounted preamp up in the attic with it. The smallness of the antenna, keeps its gain down, but preserves the omnidirectional pattern, and the required sensitivity is made up (along with potential splitter losses) by the preamp. The key here is to keep the omni pattern "clean", and not be concerned about gain. You want the pattern to remain "clean" from Ch 9 through Ch 31 (which is easier done with one antenna than with two), not caring about gain.

Call and chat with the guys at solidsignal.com about your situation:

Two transmitter complexes 80+ degrees apart, but only 10 miles away, and your antenna in an attic. See what they recommend.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

mcbeevee said:


> Most of my channels are only 15 miles away, but I am getting an 80% signal on one UHF station that is 80 miles away with the following attic equipment:
> 
> AntennaCraft HBU22
> 
> Channel Master VHF/UHF Antenna Preamplifier with Power Supply


 How high is your antenna?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I have an older tandy vhf/uhf approx 20+ feet up on rotator with a dist amp and I get channel a little over 100 miles away at about 80%.
ota is used often here during snow conditions.
my opinion is install the best one you can afford even if it seems overkill for what you want.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> I have an older tandy vhf/uhf approx 20+ feet up on rotator with a dist amp and I get channel a little over 100 miles away at about 80%.
> ota is used often here during snow conditions.
> my opinion is install the best one you can afford even if it seems overkill for what you want.


Agreed.


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