# BREAKING NEWS! Price increases coming for Dish Network!



## Chris Blount

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!

AT60 +$2
AT60 Plus +$2
AT120 +$3
AT180 +$3
Everything Package +$4
RAI International +$3

Letters will go out 1/1/05, and if you have an email address registered with Dish, you will not get a letter but email instead (hmmm, there was a big push to collect email addresses recently). All subscribers that are involved in the increase will be receiving a free PPV coupon. Note, no Dish Latino packages will be affected by this. 

This is a large increase compared to recent years, and explanation given is the increase in costs from the providers.


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## catnap1972

Could've smelled this coming a mile away.

Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.

(BTW, any increases on anything else...ie networks, supers, etc.?)


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## Spruceman

I wonder how much of the increase goes to ESPN, et. al., to pay for the rights of showing games between our teams of corporate gladiators?


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## wcswett

Chris Blount said:


> DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!
> 
> Everything Package +$4


Hmmm... well, now that aspect ratios are fixed on the 921, I guess I'll deactivate a receiver to offset the increase.

--- WCS


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## bavaria72

Well, who gets to update the price comparision list between E*, D*, and Voom? 3 bucks for AT120? That is about a 4 or 5% increase of my total bill. Be interesting to see what D* does in March.


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## mattb

Chris Blount said:


> This is a large increase compared to recent years, and explanation given is the increase in costs from the providers.


Man, E* is becoming to be as expensive as Digital Cable yet they give more channels! This is sad, since Charlie has said he will not add any new HD content (not compelling) and no more SD Content ( they want to charge us too much)


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## tnsprin

mattb said:


> Man, E* is becoming to be as expensive as Digital Cable yet they give more channels! This is sad, since Charlie has said he will not add any new HD content (not compelling) and no more SD Content ( they want to charge us too much)


They have been adding "some" SD content (not counting the LIL). Looks like they may add some more (at least test feeds of some new stations are being uploaded).

Of course its HD content I want to see added.


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## Darkman

Hmmm... from last Retailer Chat - http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36648

"Cable Rates are going up ( "they are raising rates - Surprise, surprise" )

They showed about 30 or 40 Cable local markets (...Comcast, Adelphia, Time Warner, Charter, etc) - and the rates of Increase.. ranging somewhere from 2 to 8 % ....

Jim suggested to Retailers: "It's a good time to "Cash in" on that" 
-----

Hehehe.... - Looks like Dishnet decided to "Cash in" (so to speak).. themselves also ..somewhat  

With all the above mentioned "Cable's statistics" - How many % will THEIR OWN increase make?  

.....
P.S. .... i guess "the Fat Lady sang then..." ((((


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## ClaudeR

wcswett said:


> Hmmm... well, now that aspect ratios are fixed on the 921, I guess I'll deactivate a receiver to offset the increase.
> 
> --- WCS


All I could do is eliminate the locals - BUT NO! On the 921, you have to sub the locals to get the OTA guide data. Hmmm, why did I dump Adelphia this month? ARGH.


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## Bill R

Chris Blount said:


> DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!
> 
> AT60 +$2
> AT60 Plus +$2
> AT120 +$3
> AT180 +$3


Comparing those price increases with "like" packages from my local cable company, percentage wise, DISH's increases are almost twice as much as the cable company's planned increase. Those increases make cable cheaper than DISH. Between the price increase and the fact that DISH *still* doesn't carry ALL the locals in my area will make cable look like the better choice for many people.


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## Scott Greczkowski

From what I know this information is incorrect.

I am being told that the increase will happen in March.

Guess we wait and see.


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## leegart

Chris Blount said:


> DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!
> 
> AT60 +$2
> AT60 Plus +$2
> AT120 +$3
> AT180 +$3
> Everything Package +$4
> RAI International +$3


Higher fees and we lost CNN-International!


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## catnap1972

Nick said:


> You have been wrong before. :thats: :lol:


If the only thing that's wrong is the date does it really make much difference?


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## Jason Nipp

I was at the In-Laws place yesterday. She told me her Comcast rates had recently increased and they were looking to go lifeline (basic) services since they hardly watch TV.

I think rate increases stink and I don't want to pay more either...but I also don't see this as an isolated occurrence. Seems to me all my utility company's are jacking rates lately...Nicor announced that they were going to triple the per therm rate for the month of February. Lets see...how much was my heating bill last month...now x3. Are these premiums really required or is it fleecing of America?

My 2 cents


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## BFG

The fee breakdown doesn't look that complete to me.

How will the locals and AT package bundling go. Will everything go up $3 or just the AT alone packages. Because that would be a nice incentive for those that bundle locals for their price to stay the same. Last year when they did the increase they added the local bundle so in effect the price only went up 1 penny.


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## Ray_Clum

Will be....

Package / Provider / With Locals / Without Locals
AT60 / E* / 26.99 / 31.99
AT60+ / E* / 31.99 / 36.99
TC / D* / 36.99 / 39.99
AT120 / E* / 36.99 / 42.99
TC+ / D* / 39.99 / 42.99
AT180 / E* / 47.99 / 52.99
AEP / E* / 81.99 / 86.99
TC Prem / D* / 87.99 / 90.99

Makes D* awfully price competitive pretty much across the board... Will be interesting to see what E*'s telco partners do with their pricing. This might drive some E* customers towards their telco partners if the partners don't raise pricing.


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## wkomorow

It may be a matter of semantics, but Scott and Chris may be saying the same thing. If the announcement goes out in January, the price increase will be in the February bill. However, the Feb bill is really for March programming.

I agree with Spruceman, it would be interesting to know how much is being spent to support the new regional sports networks and ESPN. All programming has gone up, but my guess is that the sports programming has gone up more that most.

<New England Mode On>
Besides, unless your a Pats (12 and 2 this season, and do I HAVE to remind you about last season) or Sox fan - why would you pay more money just to watch your favorite team lose, anyway? </New England Mode Off>


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## Chris Blount

Come on fellas. Let's settle down a bit here. Like Bill and Catnap said, it could be February or March. Doesn't matter. The fact is that price increases are coming. 

Dish is going to take a lot of heat for this so it should be interesting to see what happens.


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## Bill R

wkomorow said:


> All programming has gone up, but my guess is that the sports programming has gone up more that most.


That statement is true but I feel that ONE of the reasons for the big increase is the "receiver giveaway" program that the DBS vendors are currently engaged in. While some of the equipment is leased (DirecTV's isn't) it is costing a *LOT* more money up front to get new customer. SOMEONE has to pay for that and the way that is being done is in the form of a steep rate increase.

I also think that DirecTV will have a BIG increase in 2005. You can't _give away the farm_ (receivers) forever.


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## scottchez

I think Nick started it. A moderator should never start anything.

There fore I feel that Nick should be demoted and no longer be made a moderator.

As for Scott. He is a member just like everyone else. He is not a moderator. Members sometimes go out and say things. It is normal. It is not normal for moderators, they should be moderating and not starting things.

I expert more from a moderator on a board. Please remove Nick as a Mod.


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## Nick

OK, Scott, whatever you say...


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## Dsquared

Quite frankly I really enjoyed the "spat" between Nick and Scott. I was 'burned out' after all the Christmas cheer and needed a good laugh.

Thank you Scott & Nick. Have a happy New Year.

Dsquared :lol: :lol:


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## Mike Richardson

Getting back on topic...

Those price increases suck. I have AEP+Locals and may consider going to AT180 Value Pack+Locals. DISH's loss, ultimately.


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## kwajr

Jason Nipp said:


> I was at the In-Laws place yesterday. She told me her Comcast rates had recently increased and they were looking to go lifeline (basic) services since they hardly watch TV.
> 
> I think rate increases stink and I don't want to pay more either...but I also don't see this as an isolated occurrence. Seems to me all my utility company's are jacking rates lately...Nicor announced that they were going to triple the per therm rate for the month of February. Lets see...how much was my heating bill last month...now x3. Are these premiums really required or is it fleecing of America?
> 
> My 2 cents


well tw here charges about 50 a month for cable without dig access here is a link and the prices they have here dont show the increases that were announced for jan http://www.timewarnercable.com/piedmonttriad/products/packagesprices/davcoprices.html
or the boxes http://www.timewarnercable.com/piedmonttriad/products/packagesprices/equipinstall.html


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## kwajr

BobJ2004 said:


> I used to trust all the Mods in that they would take care of us and the threads and to calm things down if anything got out of hand.
> 
> I dont trust Nick anymore. He clearly started things. We need a new Moderator please.


i second that he is supposed to moderate


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## Darkman

do not want to get involved in this one, but just want to point out - kwajr - By the way - when you were having problems in the past over a "sold merchandise".. and tempers were flared somewhat... - Nick actually stuck up for you .. so he moderated then i would say (..and i should know.. - i got Private Message from him back then.. basically, politely speaking, giving me crap.. for getting involved into your situation, being extra hard on you, and for making remarks about your old avatar or something like that (even though i was only kidding)...

All i wanted to say.. from where i stand - this board was quite "nice" to you


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## Keys-Ez

Spruceman said:


> I wonder how much of the increase goes to ESPN, et. al., to pay for the rights of showing games between our teams of corporate gladiators?


 Well if its equal to the percentage it is of your bill, then about 50% of it.

I don't think pure a la carte would work but there really should be a "no Sports" option. Then the NFL et al, would wake up maybe when the actual sports have to pay 100% of the outragious fees charged that the rest of us are subsidizing.


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## pez2002

are they rasing rates too ?


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## Scott Greczkowski

I would love a no sports option.

The only sport I watch is Wrestling (which isn't a "sport") I don't see why I need to pay for ESPN when I don't watch it.

Of course you could say the same thing about the Womens Channels, other could say the same about the Cartoon Channels and so on.

The big question is how much is too much.


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## pez2002

do you get an rsn Scott


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## Scott Greczkowski

pez2002 said:


> do you get an rsn Scott


Yes Fox Sports New England and NESN.

Another two channels I don't watch.


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## Keys-Ez

catnap1972 said:


> Could've smelled this coming a mile away.
> 
> Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.


Why it will be virtually the same price... and DTV might have an increase soon themselves..

Though they might hold off on it for a while to be equal with DISH rather than the more expensive. But likely they are going to see the same increases from providers as their contracts come up for renewal.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Chad I just sent you a PM about this. You SHOULD be working.


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## Scott Greczkowski

chaddux said:


> Got it. Sent one back. I think we can stop posting in this thread now. It's been hijacked enough.


 Agreed, back to our regular programming folks...

(I wonder if Charlie will say the price incease is because of them adding Oxygen, Encore MopviePlex, and CSTV?)


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## Sparkman87

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Agreed, back to our regular programming folks...
> 
> (I wonder if Charlie will say the price incease is because of them adding Oxygen, Encore MopviePlex, and CSTV?)


1st lets see them add Oxygen, Encore Movieplex & CSTV, then they can blame the rates on them.

Since sports is 90 or so % of what I watch, I'd love a package with only a few of the most populars channels & all of the sports channels. However, the kids watch channels I'd never turn on & my wife watches other channels that no one else here watches. Thats why we have AEP.


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## ClaudeR

Can we get this thread locked, and start one devoted to the price increase?

How about new subs (December 2004), can we get out of our contract without fees? Probably not, I'm sure I signed a statement about "increase at any time" or something to that effect, but I wouldn't mind losing the contract.


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## Neil Derryberry

Thanks for stirring the pot, scott.. you show your true colors when you do that, and everyone needs a reminder now and again.


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## Paul Secic

catnap1972 said:


> Could've smelled this coming a mile away.
> 
> Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.
> 
> (BTW, any increases on anything else...ie networks, supers, etc.?)


Its just $3. I'm sure Directv will follow.


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## scooper

Rate increases are like death and taxes - inevitable. Programming costs keep going up, so the costs of doing business with the programmers goes up / ad nauseum. D* willl probably also have one, and we all know about cable and rate hikes...


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## SimpleSimon

chaddux said:


> I think the argument is not that they are happening - we know greedy programmers like ESPN want too much money. The issue is that DISH has just finished a big push to talk about evil cable raising prices when they are doing it themselves. That's hypocritical.


 EXACTLY!


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## Sparkman87

MSoper72 said:


> I have the Everything Package and I'm not worried about the price increase. I have all the channels, except for 2, that I want to watch. I still say, I'm not going to jump boat cause E* doesn't have HD yet and most people these days do not have the money to afford a HD tv set. So, calm down, take some deep breathes and stop whining all the time.
> 
> How would you guys feel, if it was YOU trying to run EchoStar? You have to deal with whiny people day after day. Would you want to just go home and take some asprin and to say to H*ll with it all?? Think about that for a bit before you all start your whining again, ok?? :nono2:


Huh? E* doesn't have HD? Don't understand what you mean with that.

I 'm not going to dump E* beacuse of any price increase, price is very low is my decsion process. In fact, I'm jumping to Comcast because E* isn't carrying 1 channel, CSN-C until 4/1/05 & I want to watch it now, & in HD. & because I took a 510 in 10/03, with a 2 yr commitment, I have to keep at least 1 receiver hooked up to AT60 until 10/05. I was going to keep my 811 & just the HD package, but now I need to keep an additional $30/ month package for 10 months or pay a $240 fee.

I may not be the norm, but I expect a price increase every year. Happens with most things. & I'll pay whatever it costs for me to get the programming I want. 
Price is secondary.


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## Scott Greczkowski

The problem with the everything pack is it is always the package that sees the highest increase each year.

Im starting to think that maybe AT180 is better and forget about the pay channels since they seem to be in free preview mode anyways, so your not going to miss anything. 

As I said earlier before Nick blew up the world, Dish is going to have a fun time at CES, and I know for a fact I will be there giving them an earfull. Maybe we should organize a protest at their booth or something for all the stupid moves they have made lately.... (Just kidding folks!)


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## shilton

I'd have to say in the grand scheme of things, a $3.00 increase seems a bit steep that's over a 6% increase in rates, well above the costs of inflation and it makes Dish seem more like the greedy pigs themselves that they accuse the cable companies of being. If indeed these rates are a direct result of increasing sports costs, then I must say I am more and more in favor of less and less sports for programming choice. I remember way back when ESPN was a channel you paid extra to add to your cable lineup. If its sports that is raising the costs so high then maybe that's the way it ought to be again. I watch little football, could care less about billiards championships, skiing, basketball and all the other million sports we are forced to pay for. Lets have a no sports option and let the sports nuts pay for the programming they want. I bet if we were all given the option, far more people would opt to drop the sports stuff than you realize.


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## Brian Rector

Even though Dish will raise their rates, I am sticking with them. After my wonderful experiences (sarcasm alert!!) with Pegasus and my local cable company, a subscription with Dish is just the right thing for me.


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## Adam Richey

I'm sorry, but if AT180 is getting that kind of increase, I want more than Oxygen, MoviePlex (which is just a condensed version of what I already subscribe to) and College Sports TV. If Dish were to add channels like GoodLife, Ovation, and a few staples of digital cable that have long been requested on both Dish and DirecTV, then I think this increase would at least catch LESS hell than would be expected.


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## Adam Richey

I've done some house cleaning on this thread. I am not trying to take sides, but the arguments brought forth were not only in the wrong place, but they involved some heated words that I don't think reflect highly on SatelliteGuys OR DBSTalk. Anybody's posts that I deleted, please don't be offended or upset by it. Just get back to the discussion of price increases and let's not have knock-down dragout wars.


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## mini1

Don't you all remeber? 
Dish advertised "No price increases until January 2005" for AT60 (was AT50) package. I remember how they advertised it everywhere, in every store, online, and any other place that sold Dish. I can't remeber if it applied to any other packages? (I think it may have). If they had to lock rates for that long, then it told us that rates would go up quite a bit after that date. Well we are almost there, and what is happening?


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## wkomorow

To be honest, I do not mind the $4 price increase. However, I agree with Ogre, that it will be much easier to take if we see a substational number of high-quality channels added. It is true that satellite is losing out to cable in the number of channels they offer. 

(Having said that I plan to stay with Dish regardless of the price increase and the number of channels they do or do not add. Their service is much more reliable than cable. In addition, Echostar has really treated me right whenever I have had a problem - I cannot say the same for Time Warner.)

Here is a hypothetical question. If ESPN, the regional sports networks, FoxWorld, etc were offered as a special add-on package (removed from ATXXX), would you be willing to pay $15-20 more for it, given a $4-5 dollar decrease for the corresponding AT package.?

I am guessing at $15-20 based on the following. When Comcast and ESPN had their very open dispute a while ago, it came out that ESPN was costing Comcast around $2.60 a month. Since it is at AT-60, that means there are about 8 million subscribers on Dish. If Dish is paying that amount, that means Dish is paying about $21 a month just for ESPN. For the sake of argument, lets say that 2 million subscribers are willing to pay for a sports add on package. That would be $10 a month just for ESPN, so $15 for ESPN, FoxWorld, etc. would not be unreasonable.


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## mini1

Only problem wkomorow, is that ESPN won't let Dish or any company (besides C-Band) remove their channels from a packaged line-up. It would be great if they could, but don't look for it to happen any time soon.


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## SimpleSimon

If E* had a fixed-revenue contract for ESPN, your logic holds. I doubt that's the case, however.

It's probably a per-subscriber rate, and IF it could be broken out from the base package, ESPN would have a much needed reality check.

Unfortunately, the contract probably does state that ESPN must be carried in the base package.

P.S. For CES, someone needs to make T-shirts with "I LOVE DISH" on the front, and "DISH SCREWS THEIR CUSTOMERS" on the BACK. Walk up to the booth and engage their people while wearing it. Then see how long it takes for them to catch on.


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## wkomorow

Simon and mini1 -

I agree with you both. Disney would never allow Dish to take ESPN out of the basic package. 

My question was hypothetical - how much are sports enthusiasts willing to pay for basic sports programming if it were not subsidized. BTW, right now ESPN is showing the Dale Earnhart story and ESPN2 is showing the world championship of poker.


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## Sparkman87

wkomorow said:


> Simon and mini1 -
> 
> I agree with you both. Disney would never allow Dish to take ESPN out of the basic package.
> 
> My question was hypothetical - how much are sports enthusiasts willing to pay for basic sports programming if it were not subsidized. BTW, right now ESPN is showing the Dale Earnhart story and ESPN2 is showing the world championship of poker.


I would say $15 - $20/month would be about right. Multisports package is $5.99/month and it has very little live sports programming. But you can can some things like coaches shows, etc from other parts of the country. And the reason for those 2 shows on the ESPN channels right now is that the NFL is on CBS & FOX. ESPN usually doesn't counter the NFL with strong programming. And ESPN (HD) has Sunday night football and the best highlights show on coming on in soon.


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## Mike123abc

Rates do not always go up... In fact my local cable company *LOWERED* the price of their top end package $18 last year.

/sigh

Looks like I will have to switch back to cable. With the proposed rate increase by Dish cable will now be an astonishing $44/month CHEAPER than what I pay with Dish...

When I originally went with Dish they were $20/month cheaper. This is a $64 price swing (well $49 because $15 is the cable internet bundle savings I would have).

AEP 82.99 + $4 = $86.99, local cable all movie packs: $83.99 (was $99.99 4 years ago).

HD Pack Dish $9.99, Local Cable $5/month
(note cable is free Discovery and Fox Sports SW in HD, HDTV pack is INHD1&2 + HDNet/Movies)

Cable modem with Dish $55, with local cable $40

With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...

All in all it comes out to $138.94/month with cable and $172.27/month with Dish after the price increase (cable modem in both prices).

I have Dish prepaid until March... Unless something spectacular happens I guess I will be back to cable... Pretty sad that Dish keeps going up and cable is going down (at least in my area).


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## lhess

Look for AT75 to be the basic package. Dish will probably ad FOX News and a few others to its lowest priced package. This would justify the rate increase would it not?

Dish will want to remain "The Lowest All Digital Price In America" so they will maintain their basic package. Remember that they are now competing with a new leaner, meaner Directv and some pretty agressive marketing from companies like Comcast.


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## TNGTony

Just a reminder...the EKB History of price increases on Dish can be found here. It's interesting to thing that when I first got Dish, I subscribed to everything I could in English and Spanish with a total bill of $60 a month.

See ya
Tony


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## FTA Michael

lhess said:


> Look for AT75 to be the basic package. Dish will probably ad FOX News and a few others to its lowest priced package.


Naaaah, Fox News is currently huge in getting some folks to choose AT120 instead of AT60.

Sounds like Charlie will throw us a bone this time (Oxygen, CSTV) while blaming content providers for the rate increase. The real reason for the increase is because they can -- look at cable rates and Dish is staying just under them.


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## kwajr

Darkman said:


> do not want to get involved in this one, but just want to point out - kwajr - By the way - when you were having problems in the past over a "sold merchandise".. and tempers were flared somewhat... - Nick actually stuck up for you .. so he moderated then i would say (..and i should know.. - i got Private Message from him back then.. basically, politely speaking, giving me crap.. for getting involved into your situation, being extra hard on you, and for making remarks about your old avatar or something like that (even though i was only kidding)...
> 
> All i wanted to say.. from where i stand - this board was quite "nice" to you


WELL SEE IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACTS which is what they did you would know that sometimes things happen i made the mistake of shipping a boxes by ups they did not survive and oh ups said the box was never returned for proof that it was broke but i managed to get them to pay the claim i do not think the box was even broke just that he was trying to rip us off but any way nick was wrong on this one and has been very arrogant before to most of us


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## kwajr

MSoper72 said:


> I have the Everything Package and I'm not worried about the price increase. I have all the channels, except for 2, that I want to watch. I still say, I'm not going to jump boat cause E* doesn't have HD yet and most people these days do not have the money to afford a HD tv set. So, calm down, take some deep breathes and stop whining all the time.
> 
> How would you guys feel, if it was YOU trying to run EchoStar? You have to deal with whiny people day after day. Would you want to just go home and take some asprin and to say to H*ll with it all?? Think about that for a bit before you all start your whining again, ok?? :nono2:
> 
> Plus, D* will sure to follow with 5 to 10 times more on a price increase. I've seen it happen before a few times. Plus, with D*, I've heard even on distance networks. You are only allowed to have 1, depending on your location. You are not able to receive both, East and West coast feeds.
> Were at E*, you have more of an option than you would at D*.


remeber they must get everyone on one dish that will not be cheap


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## kwajr

shilton said:


> I'd have to say in the grand scheme of things, a $3.00 increase seems a bit steep that's over a 6% increase in rates, well above the costs of inflation and it makes Dish seem more like the greedy pigs themselves that they accuse the cable companies of being. If indeed these rates are a direct result of increasing sports costs, then I must say I am more and more in favor of less and less sports for programming choice. I remember way back when ESPN was a channel you paid extra to add to your cable lineup. If its sports that is raising the costs so high then maybe that's the way it ought to be again. I watch little football, could care less about billiards championships, skiing, basketball and all the other million sports we are forced to pay for. Lets have a no sports option and let the sports nuts pay for the programming they want. I bet if we were all given the option, far more people would opt to drop the sports stuff than you realize.


 well tw went up 10 bucks to 50 that a steap increase i think almost 25% isnt it


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## SimpleSimon

kwajr said:


> remeber they must get everyone on one dish that will not be cheap


 Incorrect.

Details fully covered in many threads here and elsewhere.


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## TNGTony

chaddux said:


> What would it be now if you got _everything_? $500/month?


Everything English & Spanish as of 2/1/2005 not including PPV:

AEP + Locals $86.99
Superstations $5.99
Distant Networks East $5.99
Distant Networks West $5.99
(I still get a package price of $11.99, but that is gone for new subs)
Multi-Sport Package $5.99
Dish Latino $24.99
-----------------------

$135.94

_EDIT---forgot to add this:

HD TV Package $9.99

Prices adjusted_

$145.93

Plus monthly adult channels
Playboy (Spanish) Included in Dish Latino
Playboy (English) $14.99
TEN Clips $22.99
TEN $22.99
---------------------------
$206.90

Asia World $4.99 (CNBC South Asia)
---------------------------
$211.89

Add to that all other programming available:

Arabic $39.99
Armenian $9.99
French
---TV 5 $9.99
---RFI $1.00
Japanese $25.00
Russian 
----RTVi / RTVi+ $24.99
----Channel 1 $14.99
----HTB(NTV America) $14.99
Chinese
----Great Wall Package $29.99
----Chinese Variety Pack $27.99
----Chinese Superpack $ 21.99
German $9.99
Greek $36.99
Korean $36.99
South Asian
----Hindi $49.99
----Bangla $34.99
----Tamil $24.99
----Malayalam $24.99
----Telugu $24.99
----Kannada $14.99
Dutch (Rumored going away at the beginning of the year) $9.99
Italian (now $9.99 - Going to...) $12.99
Polish $29.99
Urdu 
---Superpack $34.99
---Prime TV $14.99
Farsi $ 32.99
Israeli $ 19.99
Portuguese
---Globo (Brasil) $19.99
---Record (Brasil) $10.00 with Globo
---SPT (Portugal) $19.99
Tagalog ($14.99) $9.99 with any other package

--------------------------------------

The "real" Everything package is only $904.61 a month. If you buy the package annually the price is only $10,855,00 a year. You get a 32¢ savings!

Of course you can always add the Major League and NCAA packages!

See ya
Tony


----------



## Hoobastank

They can stick their "free PPV coupon" up their ass. We ordered a PPV movie last March because we got a free one back then, funny enough, we have not been charged for the movie yet, and the damn coupon expired. That scenario has actually happened twice with us. Way to go Dish!

They can stick ESPN up their asses too. Seriously. Any time I give up an extra $3/mo for nothing (I'm not watching the new channels, IF they are added) makes me consider going down to AT60. I recently dropped HBO. Don't you just love their money-making $5 downgrade fees? Corporate greed at it's best kids.


----------



## Chris Freeland

I do think E* is being a bit hypocritical again this year after making such a big deal over cable rate increases, however in my area they will still be cheaper then Comcast, who I am sure will also have a price incease, which they have already announced for other areas.


----------



## Sparkman87

Tony,

You left out the $9.99/mo HD Package. Plus, the is an NBA Package as well if you wantede to add that. & that rate only gets you all your stuff on 1 TV. But, since you'd have AEP, the DVR fee is waived!


----------



## Mike Richardson

Mike123abc said:


> Cable modem with Dish $55, with local cable $40


Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.

https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable

THis goes to anyone, if you are paying the inflated rate for Roadrunner, switch to Earthlink today. Your email address will change, but you will have the same modem, the charges come on the same Time Warner bill, you do not need to reconfigure your computer other than email. And you can save up to $13/mo, or $35/mo during the first 3 months.

I dont own stock in earthlink or anything just a satisfied customer.

[/QUOTE]With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...[/QUOTE]

That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.

If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.

Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.

It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN!


----------



## pjmrt

Well disappointing to be sure, but the increases don't seem that outrageous to me (I've seen far worse by cable in the past). But Dish has serious competition from cable - its a pity they don't recognize that. Come early next year, I will comparison shop cable and Dish again. I bet local cable comes up with a sweet "get off satellite" promo about the time the new bills hit. I'll probably stick with Dish, primarily for the DVR capability, but may end up putting my equipment up for bid on ebay and switch to cable.


----------



## kwajr

SimpleSimon said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Details fully covered in many threads here and elsewhere.


EVERY ONES LOCALS MUST BE ON ONE DISH STILL NOT CHEAP


----------



## kwajr

chaddux said:


> It's normally not proper etiquette to shout at people. It also helps to use some punctuation once in a while.


----------



## TNGTony

kwajr said:


> EVERY ONES LOCALS MUST BE ON ONE DISH STILL NOT CHEAP


Again, each DMA's local channels have to be receivable using one dish. This does not mean that the locals have to go to the same satellite location or dish as other programming. IOW if all the locals are on a side slot like Chyenne, that is perfectly okay.

See ya
Tony


----------



## kwajr

TNGTony said:


> Again, each DMA's local channels have to be receivable using one dish. This does not mean that the locals have to go to the same satellite location or dish as other programming. IOW if all the locals are on a side slot like Chyenne, that is perfectly okay.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


 well dont you think it will be costly


----------



## pastorgadget

I posted a while ago that our local Time Warner increased rates a couple of months ago and apples to apples with the increase Dish will still be cheaper, granted I get a few bucks off with my SBC discount. I will wait and see if the Telco's will follow with the increase. 

I am not quick to dump Dish now since my wife is addicted to our DVR. Which we could get with Time Warner but for a more than what we are paying now. 

So my assumption is that Dish is just keeping up with everyone else but still cheaper. The only problem in my area is that Dish still does not have locals and no plan to add it soon.


----------



## SimpleSimon

kwajr said:


> well dont you think it will be costly


Well, more than nothing of course, but I don't think it's going to b the big deal that some make it out to be.

There's not that many markets affected (TNGTony - can you expound, please?), and as long as the new 110 bird makes it OK, I think that's how it'll be solved - no customer changes required.


----------



## BFG

36 Markets, half in the top 20.


----------



## TNGTony

Markets affected by the single dish rule (Number of stations on a "side" slot):

Atlanta, GA (3) 
Boston, MA (5) 
Buffalo, NY (2) 
Chicago, IL (5) 
Cleveland, OH (2) 
Dallas, TX (1)
Denver, CO (6)
Detroit, MI (1)
Fresno, CA (3)
Greenville, SC (2)
Houston, TX (5) 
Indianapolis, IN (1) 
Las Vegas, NV (1)
Little Rock, AR (2) 
Los Angeles, CA (3) 
Louisville, KY (2) 
Memphis, TN (1) 
Minneapolis, MN (1) 
Nashville, TN (2) 
New York, NY (8) 
Omaha, NE (1) 
Orlando, FL (6) 
Paducah, KY (1)
Philadelphia, PA (5) 
Sacramento, CA (1)
Salt Lake City, UT (2)
Pittsburgh, PA (1) 
San Francisco, CA (8) 
Roanike, VA (2) 
Santa Barbara, CA (1) 
St. Louis, MO (2) 
Seattle, WA (2) 
Tampa, FL (5) 
Sioux Falls, SD (2) 
Spokane, WA (2)
Washington, D.C. (5) 
Tulsa, OK (2) 
Waco, TX (1) 

As long as E*10 doesn't explode on the launch pad, there will be no real problems. There will be some moving around, but generally no problem. Expect Sioux Falls to lose the NE PBS since the only reason they get it is because the Omaha repeater is uplinked to the side slot and not the spot beam! NEPTV is not providing a singal to the Sioux falls POP at this time.

See ya
Tony


----------



## Mike123abc

Mike Richardson said:


> Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.
> 
> With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...
> 
> That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.
> 
> If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.
> 
> Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.
> 
> It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN!


Unfortunately earth link does not service Wichita Falls via TWC, I looked into that several times over the last year, it is probably because we are too small a market. I do not use the TWC email anyways, so it would be no hassle to change.

As far as comparing analog to dish, I have rewired my house with RG-6 and high quality amplifiers (for local stations, but I have tested the cable fed in since with RR you get all the cable anyways), TWC delivers a better picture on the analogs than Dish SD. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that TWC has upgraded to fiber, and I happen to be the first drop off the fiber (the box is in the easement behind my house). Of course this does have the disadvantage of making everyone on TV look older since their wrinkles have not been compressed away.

Dish does not service our area with the local UPN. Cable has the national TW feed of WB. Yes I could save $2.99 by dropping 3 of the supers.

Digital cable ready TVs only cost me $1.50 to hook up, the rest of the TVs in the house get serviced by a closed loop system I have in place (I have 8 TVs right now and only 4 Dish boxes). I feed my 921 to every TV, I plan on substituting the cable DVR. The guest rooms, kids rooms, etc do not need all the digital channels, they get freebie analog. I realize there is a trade off of guide data, but kids could care less to look at a guide. I do *ALL* my TV watching via DVR and it will have full guide data, and I can watch it on any TV in the house (HD fed via a component video amp). In my particular situation this works, your milage may vary.

I lose ESPN-HD/TNT-HD (although TWC seems to be adding them to their systems nationwide pretty fast), but gain Fox Sports SW in HD, and INHD1&2. My TV watching habits are better served with INHD1&2. Odd that TWC manages to charge $5 for their HD pack to Dish's $10 and has 2 more commercial free channels. TWC seems to give away Discovery HDT and Fox Sports SW with digital cable. I have watched maybe 10 hours of ESPN-HD in the last year, and about 60 minutes of TNT-HD (the stretch distortion drives my crazy on that channel, thank goodness ESPN finally fixed itself).

So, essentially you cannot add $15 to TWC and take off $13 from Dish. I will give you the $3 supers cost.

Note that I will also be able to see my 4 Dish boxes on Ebay and not have to purchase a $550 HDTV DVR from TWC. At $10/month it will take many years to make up the difference. Plus my 4 Dish boxes will be useless soon since they are HD and HD is going MPEG-4, I will be selling them soon before they are obsolete.

I am not anti Dish or DBS, it is just that in my particular case cable is now ahead of Dish by quite a margin. I have invested/spent a ton of money on Dish that I will *NEVER* be able to recoup. In fact I probably have come out way behind now in the 3+ years that I have had Dish. I bought 2 6000s with 8VSB/8PSK about $650 each in the end (new sub discount) a $99 811, a $989 921, $150 DPP44, 2 superdishes (both 105 and 121) not to mention 3 dedicated dishes for 61.5, 110, 119. Not to mention the SW21s, separator, tons of extra remotes, etc. If I had stayed with cable I probably would have more money, but I do not regret it, I have had fun with Dish as a hobby and enjoyed HDTV for quite a while before TWC finally rolled it out.

I agree there will be some downgrades, but $40/month is worth a few downgrades: some channels I have never even tuned to will be gone, a smaller HD in the DVR, fewer TVs will have EPG, etc. I will gain some like INHD1&2 and ALL the HBO/MAX/STARZ/SHO channels that Dish does not carry (since I mainly watch movies I feel that I will come out ahead). Plus I get the free on demand of all the movie packages (which will save DVR usage).

I could go on and on, as you can see I have been researching and debating this for a very long time. Perhaps Dish could pull it out in the end with some big announcement. It is Dish that I have to thank anyways for causing TWC to drop their rates. They dropped the rates as soon as Dish started offering local channels via satellite. I am sad in a way to give up the DBS hobby, it is a lot of fun in many ways. I have had a lot of fun putting up more dishes, switches and rewiring the house... Getting OTA digital as soon as it turned on in the area was great...


----------



## Jacob S

Most everyone knew that these price increases were coming. I bet I know why the AEP has been going up more than the other packages the last few years, its because they do not want to have to increase that package twice for the basic and movie package price increases when they come about. Instead they are just raising it a little more each year to compensate for that plus they figure if someone is going to order that many channels they can afford to pay a little extra. Its not good to have an increase of $3+$3 or $4 to make up for the premium movie package price increases. Its been a while since the premium movie packages have went up and they do not go up as often. They probably will go up a buck next year.


----------



## Link

No way will I pay 52.99 for AT 180 w/locals. $49.99 is too much now already. The comparable Directv package is $42.99 now (and I don't care if they give us the Encore theme channels or 2 TMC channels, they belong in the Starz and Showtime packages). Their locals are only $3 more vs. Dish's $5.00.

I hope a lot of people downgrade their services due or cancel to send a message to Dish. $1 increase would be ok, but not $3.

Mediacom cable is offering high speed internet, 70 channel expanded basic plus 2 digital receivers with Starz/Encore for $69.99--price good for 24 months. Right now I am already paying $50 for high speed internet alone so this would be $20 more--so worth considering althought I think DVR service would add another $10.


----------



## SAEMike

It's $3. Get over it.


----------



## floridaguy

I agree! I have D* and I'm positive it will go up a similar amount soon. Also positive my cable tv alternatives are higher now than when I left them earlier this year. Did everyone stop driving when the price of gas went up? I think that was more than 6%


----------



## boylehome

The CEO's and upper management must have got one heck of a pay increase and/or bonus.  The increases should offset the cost of the new birds they are putting up there. hopefully there will be some benefits for the extra bucks evaporating from our wallets.


----------



## wcswett

ClaudeR said:


> All I could do is eliminate the locals - BUT NO! On the 921, you have to sub the locals to get the OTA guide data. Hmmm, why did I dump Adelphia this month? ARGH.


My local cable company just went digital last year but still hasn't added any HD content or DVRs, so I'm stuck with satellite. I put up a D* dish last month, just in case I have reason to go that route.

--- WCS


----------



## wcswett

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Dish is going to have a fun time at CES, and I know for a fact I will be there giving them an earfull. Maybe we should organize a protest at their booth or something for all the stupid moves they have made lately.... (Just kidding folks!)


Maybe when you get your next sit-down with Charlie you could mention that timing his price increases to coincide with his anti-cable promotions makes him look like a complete idiot. Also you should ask him if Sales gives him any figures on how many subscribers reduce their subscriptions following the announcement of a rate increase.

--- WCS


----------



## DonLandis

I have the AEP, America Everything Pack. But in order to get everything I needed I had to add some other packages to "everything" to get everything I needed. This seems to be fuzzy math to me.

"Everything" + a few things extra = everything I need

Why is is that the Everything Pack doesn't include everything I need?

Can I have Andy Rooney's job?


----------



## James Long

DonLandis said:


> I have the AEP, America Everything Pack. But in order to get everything I needed I had to add some other packages to "everything" to get everything I needed.


What else do you "need" and why should everyone else with the "Almost Everything Pack (AEP)" pay for that content?

As noted by TNGTony, the "Absolutely Everything Pack" would be $904.61 a month or $10,855,00 a year.

JL


----------



## Mike123abc

There are some changes Dish could make with the everything pack that could convince me to stay with them longer:

1. Roll in the HD pack to the everything pack. That could justify the $4/month increase they are planning. In fact they could move HD down into other packages... The whole concept that you pay for ESPN 2x just because they have an HD feed is silly (yes I know ESPN probably charges extra for the HD feed). Having to pay to have a channel delivered in HD in addition to SD is a concept that is going to have to fall by the wayside sooner or later, all channels should be delivered in HD and SD should fade away (look at DIRECTV saying in 3 years they can have 150 channels in HD).

2. Roll the superstations into AEP. After all they just got renewed by congress, and the Dish packages used to have the superstations in them a long time ago...

3. Add a lot more HD channels, or even enhanced definition channels with real DVD quality picture until the HD version comes out (yeah I know there is the no bandwidth argument that they keep making even though they just launched 2 new satellites and have not said a peep about what they are going to be using them for). If the AEP included lets say the top 20 cable channels at an HD bit rate, the PQ would blow away cable.


----------



## ds650

_Their locals are only $3 more vs. Dish's $5.00._

For whatever reason I also get another local channel with D* than I would have with E*.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

> 1. Roll in the HD pack to the everything pack. That could justify the $4/month increase they are planning. In fact they could move HD down into other packages... The whole concept that you pay for ESPN 2x just because they have an HD feed is silly (yes I know ESPN probably charges extra for the HD feed). Having to pay to have a channel delivered in HD in addition to SD is a concept that is going to have to fall by the wayside sooner or later, all channels should be delivered in HD and SD should fade away (look at DIRECTV saying in 3 years they can have 150 channels in HD).


And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Mike123abc said:


> Unfortunately earth link does not service Wichita Falls via TWC, I looked into that several times over the last year, it is probably because we are too small a market. I do not use the TWC email anyways, so it would be no hassle to change.


That really sucks. I think Time Warner is starting to get smart and maybe is not letting Earthlink roll out everywhere. I guess there is no DSL available either?



Mike123abc said:


> As far as comparing analog to dish, I have rewired my house with RG-6 and high quality amplifiers (for local stations, but I have tested the cable fed in since with RR you get all the cable anyways), TWC delivers a better picture on the analogs than Dish SD. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that TWC has upgraded to fiber, and I happen to be the first drop off the fiber (the box is in the easement behind my house). Of course this does have the disadvantage of making everyone on TV look older since their wrinkles have not been compressed away.


I was at a buddy's house the other day and I still say the analog "quality" is worse than compression. On their HDTV with cable the analog channels look downright awful and they are in Houston which has the full fiber upgrade, HDTV, DVR, Cable Phone, you name it.


----------



## James Long

ds650 said:


> For whatever reason I also get another local channel with D* than I would have with E*.


Amazingly enough, I get one more local on E* than D* subscribers in my area get. My local UPN. Plus I could get superstations if I wanted more WB/UPN options. What market are you in?

JL


----------



## Rodney

This increase will probably allow Charlie to maintain his profit margin and provide additional funds to purchase VOOM.


----------



## ocnier

Scott Greczkowski said:


> And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.


I agree Scott, but Dish is too used to the cash flow inside and the industry standard is also that way. I think in about 4 more years that might come about, but not right now with bandwidth at a premium.


----------



## ds650

justalurker said:


> Amazingly enough, I get one more local on E* than D* subscribers in my area get. My local UPN. Plus I could get superstations if I wanted more WB/UPN options. What market are you in?
> 
> JL


My locals would be Ft Wayne, IN. My extra channel is a WB. I'm not sure I'll watch it much. I was kinda surprised locals weren't the exact same across the board.


----------



## JBKing

Just for giggles, I called Adelphia to see what their latest rates were. For approximately 70 channels of basic services - 41.01, add the digital basic channels that are similar to AT180 or Total Choice+ for an additional 12.50 + 3.50 rental, so that is 57.01 total. Compare to AT180 soon to be 52.99 with locals or TC+ for 42.99 (or 45.99 assuming a $3 increase).

Even if D* announces a price increase soon, which I expect, the grass is looking more and more green. I've been waiting for my SuperDish commitment to expire this week. Now, I want to see what D*'s non TiVO DVR will be before jumping ship.

Don't get me wrong, IMO, $3 (7.5% increase on AT120) is not really anything to complain about, but after Charlie's increase last year to pay for his Cable Pig ad campaign  it seems D* is clearly a better value for me.


----------



## invaliduser88

And aren't we also loosing the Superstation package as of the first of the year?


----------



## JBKing

Heck, I didn't think we were even LOSING them!


----------



## Bobby94928

invaliduser88 said:


> And aren't we also loosing the Superstation package as of the first of the year?


No, the Superstations were extended with the new Satellite Bill.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Scott Greczkowski said:


> And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.


That's not true anymore in Denver. If you want ESPN-HD, DiscHD and the InHD channels from Comcast, you have to subscribe to their top tier digital package. It would be like being forced to sub to Dish's AEP just to get ESPN-HD or DiscHD. So, while it's not a separate package, if you want it, you have to sub to the highest tier of programming offered.

But, you can get their HD box by subscribing to the lowest, most basic locals only package.


----------



## James Long

Mike123abc said:


> There are some changes Dish could make with the everything pack that could convince me to stay with them longer:


They are trying to INCREASE revenue. Rolling in things that normally cost much more without additional cost doesn't approach that goal.

I believe raising the w/o locals cost while keeping the w/locals cost the same might work. It would pull an extra dollar out of the non-locals subscribers while making the jump to w/locals less of a sticker shock.

Giving away the HD pack to AEP subscribers only helps AEP subscribers and not the goal of increasing revenue. In fact, it decreases revenue. As long as HD receivers are subsidized don't expect the HD pack to be rolled in.

The +$2/+$3/+$3/+$4 increase is higher than this year's +$0/+$1/+$2/+$3 and 2003's $2 across the board. And there is a fair amount of sticker shock there for people who have not seen the channel additions they wanted. But increases are not channel related they are revenue related and many channels (including the Viacom's negotiated this year) have clauses raising their rates annually. A COGS adjustment was due.

Channel List -
Added to AT50/AT60 since 2003 Rate Guarantee
Health TV (PI) later removed
Stuff TV, TV Outlet, Catalog TV, Auction TV - all home slocking that pay
ARTS TV (PI) - on wing bird
BingoTV - selected states
CCTV9 and CCFEC propaganda channels
TVGC and HRTV - valid channels?
Removed from AT50/60:
CCN TV, SafetyNet, StarNet, Health TV - all PI - couldn't pay
EE, FN, Daystar - all PI - SkyAngel complained

Added to AT120 since 2004 $1 Rate Change
SiTV and Sirius Music (plus AT60's TVGC, BingoTV, HRTV, CCTV9, CCFEC)
Lost: CNNfn (ceased) and four PIs noted above

Added to AT180 since 2004 $2 Rate Change
NickToons and AT120 channels noted
Lost: Same as AT120

Added to AEP since 2004 $3 Rate Change
Same as AT180 including lost

Did I miss anything? (GOL TV and RealityTV were added to AT150, and Univision West and Telefutura were added to AT100 in 2003 before the last rate change.)

Rate changes ARE NOT about the channels added or lost - but I hope that E* throws us a bone and adds several new channels to balance the perception.

JL


----------



## BFG

justalurker said:


> I believe raising the w/o locals cost while keeping the w/locals cost the same might work. It would pull an extra dollar out of the non-locals subscribers while making the jump to w/locals less of a sticker shock.


This is exactly the same thing I wish they would do.


----------



## Jacob S

I can imagine the increased cost in providing services due to locals, SuperDishes, and the upcoming HD channels doesn't help. Eventually everything will probably be HD if not digital out to the television (with new receivers of course). I wonder how much it will be then? It probably stands to be a bit more than it is right now.


----------



## Paul Secic

Adam Richey said:


> I'm sorry, but if AT180 is getting that kind of increase, I want more than Oxygen, MoviePlex (which is just a condensed version of what I already subscribe to) and College Sports TV. If Dish were to add channels like GoodLife, Ovation, and a few staples of digital cable that have long been requested on both Dish and DirecTV, then I think this increase would at least catch LESS hell than would be expected.


God, I had Ovation in 1998 with AT&T Cable when I paid $9.99 extra for Digital cable. Wasn't worth it!


----------



## Paul Secic

Mike Richardson said:


> Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.
> 
> https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable
> 
> THis goes to anyone, if you are paying the inflated rate for Roadrunner, switch to Earthlink today. Your email address will change, but you will have the same modem, the charges come on the same Time Warner bill, you do not need to reconfigure your computer other than email. And you can save up to $13/mo, or $35/mo during the first 3 months.
> 
> I dont own stock in earthlink or anything just a satisfied customer.


With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...[/QUOTE]

That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.

If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.

Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.

It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN![/QUOTE]

My roommate and share Comcast through wireless hub. Each of us pay $30 a month for Internet.


----------



## Hoobastank

Mike Richardson said:


> Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.
> 
> https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable


I agree completely. I have Earthlink cable internet, and Dish for tv. I have absolutely no use for TW, the king of corporate *******s. Why people sign up for Roadrunner is a mystery. Earthlink is $41.95/mo in most divisions, which is always cheaper than Roadrunner, no matter what tv package you have with TW.

However, I am switching back to RR this month because they offered me 12 months @ $29.95. Can't beat that where I'm at. I'll switch back to Earthlink after the year to take advantage of their current special.


----------



## gottahavit

this is very funny considering I just saw a Dish Commercial slamming Cable, add went something like this... "The cost of digital technology is dropping, why do cable rates keep going up?" :lol: 

Sounds like their own marketing statement implies they are being greedy and should be eliminated as a choice when considering programming changes. 

:eek2:


----------



## Nick

Changing providers because of a $3 rate increase is the little man's revenge. 

I have a neighbor who had her cable disconnected for non-payment, being some $270 in arrears. She blamed the cable company for the disconnect. In an act of revenge, she refused to pay the cable bill and called D*, which rejected her due to bad credit. For even more revenge, she then signed up for E* which took her and now cuts her off when she goes past due. If/when E* cancels her altogether, I don't where she will go. She still owes Adelphia $270.

Always interesting how the little man (or woman) exacts his (or her) revenge.


----------



## gottahavit

I think you missed the point. Their own commerical claims digital prices should be going down and slamming cable for raising rates. I'm not talking about dropping anyone for 3 dollars a month, I'm talking about IF someone is considering progamming changes, maybe they should take Dish's commercial to heart.


----------



## Nick

My post was not in response to your comments.


----------



## MrPete

If you think that is bad, in my area (Chicago) Comcast is also raising rates in January.

Expanded Basic $32.00 --> $39.00 21.9% increase :nono: 
Standard Cable $39.99 --> $46.99 17.5% increase :nono2:

Standard (Analog) Cable consists of 73 channels:
2	WBBM-TV (2) CBS 
3	Comcast Network 
4	WGBO-TV (66) UNI 
5	WMAQ-TV (5) NBC 
6	Government Access 
7	WLS-TV (7) ABC 
8	WPWR-TV (50) UPN 
9	WGN-TV (9) WB 
10	WCIU-TV (26) 
11	WTTW-TV (11) PBS 
12	WFLD-TV (32) FOX 
13	WCPX-TV (38) PAX 
14	WSNS-TV (44) TEL 
16	Educational Access 
17	WJYS-TV (62) 
18	TV Guide Channel 
19	Public Access 
20	WYCC-TV (20) 
21	WYIN-TV (56) PBS 
22	WXFT-TV (60) 
24	Animal Planet 
26	Fox News Channel 
28	Spike TV 
29	MTV 
30	VH1 
31	USA Network 
32	Fox Sports Net 
33	ESPN 
34	ESPN2 
35	Headline News 
36	CNN 
37	Comcast SportsNet Chicago 
38	CLTV 
39	CNBC 
40	The Weather Channel 
41	AMC 
42	Comedy Central 
43	E! 
44	Sci-Fi Channel 
45	Lifetime 
46	Nickelodeon 
47	Cartoon Network 
48	Discovery Channel 
49	TNT 
50	TBS 
51	ABC Family 
52	The Learning Channel 
53	Home & Garden 
54	Disney Channel 
55	ESPN Classic Sports 
58	FX 
59	MSNBC 
60	Food Network 
61	CSPAN 2 
62	EWTN 
64	Travel Channel 
65	Court TV 
66	BET 
67	TLN 
68	The Golf Channel 
69	Hallmark Channel 
70	CMT 
71	Oxygen 
72	Speed Channel 
73	TV Land 
75	Outdoor Life 
76	The History Channel 
78	A&E 
95	CSPAN 
96	HSN 
97	QVC 
99	Celebrity Shopping Network 
217	ABC News Now

DISH AT120 w/locals is currently $39.99.
If it goes up +3, it is still cheaper and quality much better than Comcast here.
If you want Digital Cable, it is even MORE expensive


----------



## Mike123abc

Dish is becoming like the Federal government... They are raising the rate of top in subs far faster than inflation.. AEP up $7 in 2 years. They are not raising the bottom end very much. They are "taxing" the larger subs to support the low end AT60 people.

Long term this will be very destructive. Unlike the Federal Government Dish cannot force subs to the upper end packages, and if they price themselves out of the market they end up with a large problem.

The first year (start of 2001) I had AEP it was $70, then the next year $73, then this year $78 now next year it will go to $82. Essentially in 4 years it has gone from $70-$82, another way to look at it is a 17.14% increase. In contrast the CPI index has only gone up 9.08% in the same time (well short 4 months since we do not have the CPI in Feb 2005, just comparing Jan 2001 - Nov 2004).  CPI statistics

What makes this even worse is that you also need to sub to the HDTV pack at another $10/month to get new programming. If you consider the AEP to really need the HD pack you are looking at a $22 raise in rates in 4 years or a 31.4% increase in rates.


----------



## FTA Michael

Mike123abc said:


> Dish is becoming like the Federal government... They are raising the rate of top in subs far faster than inflation.. AEP up $7 in 2 years. They are not raising the bottom end very much. They are "taxing" the larger subs to support the low end AT60 people.
> 
> Long term this will be very destructive. Unlike the Federal Government Dish cannot force subs to the upper end packages, and if they price themselves out of the market they end up with a large problem.


Leaving the government metaphor (huh?) out of it...

First, remember that Dish sets each and every price to maximize profits. It doesn't come up with a particular profit figure then shifts the package prices to fit. It sets each package at the price it believes will create the most profits.

Second, note that the AT60 subscriber market is much different than the AEP subscriber market. AT60 subs have just enough in their budget to get this "lifeline" service, or they were attracted by the lowball advertised price. In either case, Dish hopes that once the equipment's installed, a lot of AT60 subs will upgrade or order some PPVs. At the other end, AEP subs are so committed to getting every channel that they're willing to pay top dollar for the privilege, as long as it's less than competitors' similar plans.

When Dish raises the rates on AEP, some folks will complain but (IMHO) few will use this as an excuse to downgrade; they'll grudgingly pay the new rate. (Even the downgraders can be lured back up; the important factor is to keep the rate better than the competitors'.) When Dish raises the rates on AT60, they change the lowball number they can plaster on billboards and newspaper ads and they'll see a fair number of financially strapped viewers pull the plug altogether.

Seeing the rates go up at Dish is like watching them go up at McDonald's. You can complain about raw beef prices or increased energy costs or health insurance, but you can save yourself the grief. Decide whether you want to continue your routine, cut back, or switch to Burger King.


----------



## Link

MrPete said:


> If you think that is bad, in my area (Chicago) Comcast is also raising rates in January.
> 
> Expanded Basic $32.00 --> $39.00 21.9% increase :nono:
> Standard Cable $39.99 --> $46.99 17.5% increase :nono2:


I remember hearing on ABC 7 News that Comcast was raising their rates but that is ridiculous. Are they even adding any channels to those packages?
I remember they said with cable services and internet, bills could exceed $150 a month.


----------



## MrPete

They are not adding any new channels AFAIK.
I have their broadband access and that is 45.95/mo + tax/fees or about $48/mo
plus about another $8+2 for lifeline cable.

Internet w/o lifeline cable actually costs more... :hurah:


----------



## SimpleSimon

BFG said:


> 36 Markets, half in the top 20.


Looks like 5 transponders (61 channels) on 61.5 and and 4 (42 channels) on 148.

That's enough for 8 well-supplied HD channels - *IN MPEG-2*

E/W feeds of ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, UPN (CBS is already there) would be a real good start.

*HONOR YOUR PROMISES DISH!*


----------



## Mike Richardson

Hoobastank said:


> However, I am switching back to RR this month because they offered me 12 months @ $29.95. Can't beat that where I'm at. I'll switch back to Earthlink after the year to take advantage of their current special.


Hah, really? And you're not even a Cable TV sub? That's cool.


----------



## tech_head

Hi,

It looks like I'll be sending a receiver back. -$5.00 a month.
Looks like I'll dump Showtime and StarZ - $20.00 a month.
Add in their price increase and I still save about $20.00 per month.

Way to go dish for lowering my rates!!!!


----------



## garypen

Ah. Price Increases. Just one more reason, besides suckass equipment and missing channels, to consider DirecTV and Comcast at the end of my Dish commit. (It's just around the bend too!)


----------



## Mike Richardson

garypen said:


> Ah. Price Increases. Just one more reason, besides suckass equipment and missing channels, to consider DirecTV and Comcast at the end of my Dish commit. (It's just around the bend too!)


Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?

You will NEVER escape price increases.


----------



## hambone

Mike Richardson said:


> Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?
> 
> You will NEVER escape price increases.


For grins I went and priced my plans against DirecTV and Comcast and Dish is still by far the best deal in town. Comcast wasn't even close and D* was almost $20 more/month. Add to that my investment in two PVRs, it doesn't make any sense for me to switch, price increases or not.

The only thing at this point or the near future that will make me change is the direction of HD programming. All providers are pretty pathetic in this arena right now.


----------



## Tyralak

Chris Blount said:


> DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!
> 
> AT60 +$2
> AT60 Plus +$2
> AT120 +$3
> AT180 +$3
> Everything Package +$4
> RAI International +$3
> 
> Letters will go out 1/1/05, and if you have an email address registered with Dish, you will not get a letter but email instead (hmmm, there was a big push to collect email addresses recently). All subscribers that are involved in the increase will be receiving a free PPV coupon. Note, no Dish Latino packages will be affected by this.
> 
> This is a large increase compared to recent years, and explanation given is the increase in costs from the providers.


didn't they just have a price increase at the first of this year? hhhmmmmm I think I smell a new pig, and it ain't the cable pig. 
:nono2:


----------



## Tyralak

Darkman said:


> Jim suggested to Retailers: "It's a good time to "Cash in" on that"
> -----
> 
> Hehehe.... - Looks like Dishnet decided to "Cash in" (so to speak).. themselves also ..somewhat
> 
> With all the above mentioned "Cable's statistics" - How many % will THEIR OWN increase make?
> 
> .....
> P.S. .... i guess "the Fat Lady sang then..." ((((


Looks like Charlie has decided to start "dishin' it up" right up the customer's rectal cavity.


----------



## Tyralak

Jason Nipp said:


> I was at the In-Laws place yesterday. She told me her Comcast rates had recently increased and they were looking to go lifeline (basic) services since they hardly watch TV.
> 
> I think rate increases stink and I don't want to pay more either...but I also don't see this as an isolated occurrence. Seems to me all my utility company's are jacking rates lately...Nicor announced that they were going to triple the per therm rate for the month of February. Lets see...how much was my heating bill last month...now x3. Are these premiums really required or is it fleecing of America?
> 
> My 2 cents


I agree, Nipper. McCain was threatening the pay tv industry with more regulation if they didn't stop the gouging. I guess it's time to see if he makes good on his word.


----------



## TonyB

I think I remember sombody saying that when they called E* to drop some channels or package that they were charged $5 for the change. Does anyone know whether you can drop service without the fee, IF its at the time of a rate increase? Is so, seems like a good time to re-evaluate what package you really need - make changes for free. I am thinking of backing down to the 60 pacakge AND dropping the Locals. Since you can add channels without the fee (I assume), its worth doing once the notice of increase comes along.


----------



## BFG

No, why would they do that. The $5 downgrade fee will still be there


----------



## garypen

Mike Richardson said:


> Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?
> 
> You will NEVER escape price increases.


Of course they do. However, this will make AT120 w/locals more expensive than TC w/locals, and puts it at the same price point as TC+ w/locals. Both TC packages are a better value than AT120, but TC+ basically blows it away.

That's just the basic programming. Let's not forget Dish's bug box HW, $5 downgrade fees, DVR fees per receiver vs. household, inability to make online programming changes (up AND down), CSR roulette, lack of many sports, less HD, etc.

For those who need or want Superstations, Sirius, certain Internationals, or BingoTV, Dish will still offer the most value. But, for anybody else who wants to receive their TV via satellite, and isn't emotionally attached to Dish for some bizarre reason known only to them, DirecTV is now the better value.

This price increase tips the scales.


----------



## James Long

garypen said:


> This price increase tips the scales.


For a day. Then D* WILL raise their rates. And they won't "Price Guarantee" anything. 

JL


----------



## hongcho

> Then D* WILL raise their rates. 

True. However, the last DirecTV price hike was about a year ago. How often do they update prices?

Hong.


----------



## Adam Richey

It comes once a year towards the beginning. Usually only once every couple years, but it's been an annual thing the past couple years.


----------



## bavaria72

garypen said:


> ...and isn't emotionally attached to Dish for some bizarre reason known only to them, DirecTV is now the better value. This price increase tips the scales.


You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - Art


----------



## shilton

I have to tell you, I have been a Dish sub for like 6 years and have always been pretty pleased but I am really getting disgusted. I know most here on this board are saying hey its only $3.00 here or $5.00 there, get over it...but one must look at the bigger picture here.

We are talking something in the neighborhood of a 6% increase (more if you have Supers or Premium Channels). When is the last time your boss gave you a 6% raise? Anytime prices rise above inflation, we all ought to take notice. Besides, what new channels has Dish added lately (or for the last 12-18 months for that matter) Charlie talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one side, he threatens to drop this and that because channels are getting too expensive and we can't add this channel because of cost, etc...but yet we eat increase after increase much due to all the sporting channels Dish has to offer. If the channel is getting that expensive to maintain, its time to evaluate how badly it is really needed or wanted (or re-package it so those who WANT it can pay for it).

Walmart makes its fortunes with quantity not price and Charlie and some of the others could learn a lot from their business model. I bet there would be a lot more happy customers giving them a lot more money if the cost were kept low and increases were kept to a minimum. Also for those of us on the higher end packs, I grow tired of my increases subsidizing the cheaper packages so that someone can get in on the entry level package for $30.00 or less! I think we ought to spread these increases more evenly across the board. If its fair for me on the high end, its fair for the little guy on the low end too.


----------



## Hoobastank

Mike Richardson said:


> Hah, really? And you're not even a Cable TV sub? That's cool.


Correct. We haven't been a cable sub for 6 years now. The $29.95/mo for 12 mo is cool, but I've since heard of some people being offered that price @ 18 months! That's pretty unbelievable. Guess my division didn't miss me _that_ much.


----------



## Hoobastank

I don't understand why some people on here can say that people with AEP are subsidizing people with lower packs. EVERYONE's rates are going up. People with AT60 are going up $2 versus $4 for the cream of the crop. You're actually getting a better value out of this rate increase dollar for dollar for the number of channels your getting. 

If I heard some valid points coming from the AEP people concerning this issue, I'm sure we're all listening........


----------



## James Long

shilton said:


> We are talking something in the neighborhood of a 6% increase (more if you have Supers or Premium Channels).


Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.
EG:
AEP w/locals & 1 Reciever - $82.99 raises to $86.99 (4.8% increase)
AEP w/locals & HD & 2nd Reciever - $97.97 raises to $101.97 (4.1%)

AT180 w/o locals - $44.99 raises to $47.99 (6.6%)
AT180 w/locals - $49.99 raises to $52.99 (6%)
AT180 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $66.99 raises to $69.99 (4.5%)

AT120 w/o locals - $34.99 raises to $37.99 (8.6%)
AT120 w/locals - $39.99 raises to $42.99 (7.5%)
AT120 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $56.99 raises to $59.99 (5.2%)
AT120 w/locals & 3 Receivers - $49.97 raises to $52.97 (6%)

AT60 w/o locals - $24.99 raises to $26.99 (8%)
AT60 w/locals - $29.99 raises to $31.99 (6.7%)
AT60 PLUS w/locals - $34.99 raises to $36.99 (5.7%)

It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)


shilton said:


> Also for those of us on the higher end packs, I grow tired of my increases subsidizing the cheaper packages so that someone can get in on the entry level package for $30.00 or less! I think we ought to spread these increases more evenly across the board. If its fair for me on the high end, its fair for the little guy on the low end too.


Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%. 

JL


----------



## Mike123abc

justalurker said:


> Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.
> EG:
> AEP w/locals & 1 Reciever - $82.99 raises to $86.99 (4.8% increase)
> AEP w/locals & HD & 2nd Reciever - $97.97 raises to $101.97 (4.1%)
> 
> AT180 w/o locals - $44.99 raises to $47.99 (6.6%)
> AT180 w/locals - $49.99 raises to $52.99 (6%)
> AT180 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $66.99 raises to $69.99 (4.5%)
> 
> AT120 w/o locals - $34.99 raises to $37.99 (8.6%)
> AT120 w/locals - $39.99 raises to $42.99 (7.5%)
> AT120 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $56.99 raises to $59.99 (5.2%)
> AT120 w/locals & 3 Receivers - $49.97 raises to $52.97 (6%)
> 
> AT60 w/o locals - $24.99 raises to $26.99 (8%)
> AT60 w/locals - $29.99 raises to $31.99 (6.7%)
> AT60 PLUS w/locals - $34.99 raises to $36.99 (5.7%)
> 
> It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)
> Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%.
> 
> JL


You are forgetting that last year AT60 did not have a price increase and AEP had a $3 price increase. This year AT60 got a rate increase, but AEP also got a rate increase. AEP is really getting hit since the movie packages did not change price. AEP just has the honor of paying $4 more for AT180 while AT180 only folks only had a $3 price increase.

As noted above Dish has shot past my local cable company. I know a million will want to chime in that their cable company has a lousy picture and is more expensive, but I bet if you look at the top packages for cable vs AEP you will find Dish has moved ABOVE the average price of the top packages nationwide. This is especially true when you consider the bundling of internet and HDTV packages.

How Dish stacks up in top markets AEP vs cable top tier:

NY (CVC) Dish 4 cents higher

LA (TWC) Dish $7 more expensive

Houston (TWC) Dish $12 more expensive

Chicago (comcast) one area Dish $3 more expensive, one area Dish $7 more expensive

Cincinatti (TWC) Dish $3 more expensive

Throw in internet bundling and cable beats the pants off Dish in these large markets. With these price increases Dish is giving the top end customer to cable (and yes cable with their high priced analog packages are giving the low end of the market to Dish).


----------



## rocatman

justalurker said:


> Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.
> 
> It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)
> Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%.
> 
> JL


It would be interesting to calculate the percentage increases for the last two or three years. I believe with AT60 not having a price increase for the prior year or two would make the results quite different in terms of percentage increases.


----------



## kwajr

i think this might explain why they need to increase revenue http://modulusvideo.com/main.php?action=item&Page=22&id=6


----------



## James Long

rocatman said:


> It would be interesting to calculate the percentage increases for the last two or three years. I believe with AT60 not having a price increase for the prior year or two would make the results quite different in terms of percentage increases.


Got a calculator? 

AT50 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $21.99
AT50 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $22.99 (4.5% up over '01)
AT50 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $24.99 (8.7% up over '02, 13.6% over '01)
AT60 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $24.99 (no change)
AT60 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $26.99 (8% up over '03, 17.4% over '02, 22.7% over '01)

AT100 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $30.99
AT100 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $31.99 (3.2% up over '01)
AT100 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $33.99 (6.3% up over '02, 9.6% over '01)
AT120 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $34.99 (2.9% up over '03, 9.4% over '02, 12.9% over '01)
AT120 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $37.99 (8.6% up over '04, 11.8% over '03, 18.8% over '02, 22.6% over '01)

AT150 May 2000 w/o locals - $39.99
AT150 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $39.99 (no change)
AT150 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $40.99 (2.5% up over '01)
AT150 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $42.99 (4.9% up over '02, 7.5% over '01)
AT180 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $44.99 (4.7% up over '03, 9.8% over '02, 12.5% over '01)
AT180 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $47.99 (6.7% up over '04, 11.6% over '03, 17.1% over '02, 20% over '01)

AEP Creation 2001 - $69.99
AEP Feb 2002 w/o locals - $72.99 (4.3% up over '01)
AEP Feb 2003 w/o locals - $74.99 (2.7% up over '02, 7.1% over '01)
AEP Feb 2004 w/o locals - $77.99 (4% up over '03, 6.9% over '02, 11.4% over '01)
AEP Feb 2005 w/o locals - $81.99 (5.1% up over '04, 9.3% over '03, 12.3% over '02, 17.1% over '01)

Rates from http://ekb.dbstalk.com/17

Over the last four years: AEP up 17.1%, AT180 up 20%, AT120 up 22.6%, AT60 up 22.7%
Over the last three: AEP 12.3%, AT180 17.1%, AT120 18.8%, AT60 17.4%
Over the last two: AEP 9.3%, AT180 11.6%, AT120 11.8%, AT60 8% (frozen)
2005 increase: AEP 5.1%, AT180 6.7%, AT120 8.6%, AT60 8%
It's payback time for the freeze, but the low end packages are still increasing at a faster percent rate over time.

All based on base packages w/o locals. Having locals or any other add-on generally LOWERS the percentage increase (as shown in previous post).

JL


----------



## bavaria72

justalurker said:


> Got a calculator? ...


JL you are the bomb (and sick by the way!). Can you do the same thing for D*?


----------



## Geeke19

:lol: I don't even remeber my email address I signed up with on Dish Networks website its been like 6 years I can remeber the password but not the email address :lol: I still like Dish Network Better than Direct tv!


----------



## Tyralak

chaddux said:


> It's normally not proper etiquette to shout at people. It also helps to use some punctuation once in a while.


Kwajr has no use for punctuation! I don't think I've ever seen him use it.


----------



## Tyralak

SAEMike said:


> It's $3. Get over it.


$3 here, $3 there, it starts to add up.


----------



## Tyralak

bavaria72 said:


> You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - Art


Untill E* changes over to MPEG4 for new HD, then your 921 becomes a $900 doorstop.


----------



## Jacob S

It looks like Dish Network is raising twice as much as inflation. Remember when they did a comparason of their rate increases to other things like the rise in milk, cable competition, etc? It looks like an average of 5-7% a year. I cannot even get that kind of interest for having money in the bank let alone make up for the inflation if people got a raise in pay to make up for the rate of inflation. It IS starting to add up.


----------



## garypen

bavaria72 said:


> You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - Art


Or, you could get an HD DVR from Comcast for $10/month which includes the HD Pack (including HD locals and regional sports nets.)


----------



## kwajr

They are also having trouble with there hd dvr. and i hey there is period


----------



## ds650

Tyralak said:


> Untill E* changes over to MPEG4 for new HD, then your 921 becomes a $900 doorstop.


Not true, some I hear are using them as boat anchors also.


----------



## Chris Blount

Here is an update:

The increase *WILL* take effect Feb 1. Not March. 

Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Mike123abc said:


> How Dish stacks up in top markets AEP vs cable top tier:
> 
> Houston (TWC) Dish $12 more expensive
> 
> Throw in internet bundling and cable beats the pants off Dish in these large markets. With these price increases Dish is giving the top end customer to cable (and yes cable with their high priced analog packages are giving the low end of the market to Dish).


Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:

Let's see, Digipic 4000 is $75. Add $10 for the DVR (regular rcv'r is $7). Add $3 for movies plus and $3 for sports plus, to make the packages equivalent. $40 for cable internet (RR with digipic discount). $131 for cable.

For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total.



Code:


TVs    Cable    DISH
1      $131     $129
2      $138     $134
3      $145     $139
4      $152     $144

With 4 TVs I think I'll stick with DISH in the Houston market. Hell I could even take one of the TV and put it on analog cable and DISH would still be less. (but that would be unfair comparison)


----------



## cboylan3

Chris Blount said:


> Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.


Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing

thx


----------



## Chris Blount

cboylan3 said:


> Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing
> 
> thx


Don't know for sure. On the other hand though, getting around the $5 fee has always been possible if you yell at them enough.


----------



## Bahnzo

cboylan3 said:


> Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing
> 
> thx


I would guess this is for people who want to downgrade specifically due to the price increase.


----------



## Mikey

Mike Richardson said:


> ... For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total...


$42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).


----------



## speedy882001

Mikey said:


> $42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).


Yeh...I am in one of those dead areas that SBC does not service.


----------



## Mike123abc

Mike Richardson said:


> Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:
> 
> Let's see, Digipic 4000 is $75. Add $10 for the DVR (regular rcv'r is $7). Add $3 for movies plus and $3 for sports plus, to make the packages equivalent. $40 for cable internet (RR with digipic discount). $131 for cable.
> 
> For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> TVs    Cable    DISH
> 1      $131     $129
> 2      $138     $134
> 3      $145     $139
> 4      $152     $144
> 
> With 4 TVs I think I'll stick with DISH in the Houston market. Hell I could even take one of the TV and put it on analog cable and DISH would still be less. (but that would be unfair comparison)


Well you get an HD DVR from the cable company, this costs you $550 from Dish... With 4 TVs in your chart showing Dish saving you $8/month it would take $550/8 or 68 months to break even... You are also adding $7 HD boxes which you cannot get from dish without paying $$. You also need to add $10/month for dish HDTV and $3/month to TWC which essentially erases any advantage Dish had since the digital packages from TWC included 16 base HD channels of which of course Dish has 0 HD programs in AEP.

Even in your case if you look at total money outlay it would take many years for you to come out ahead with Dish... But, wait your 921 will become a doorstop by that time... ouch... And if you add in HD pack you lose even more... Plus of course you do get a bunch of free TVs with analog cable channels thrown in by TWC, and if you pay the $$ for a cable card ready TV it only costs $1.50/month, dish still charges you $5/month and a DVR fee if you do not get AEP...

Where is the value from Dish?


----------



## garypen

Mike Richardson said:


> Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:
> <snipped numbers and stuff>


Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
*Comcast* Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
*Total $83*
_Hardware is free_, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.

*Dish* AT180/locals $53
HD Pack $10
HBO $14
DVR Fee $ 5
Warranty $6
*Total $90*
_Hardware is currently $600! _(Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)

Plus, with cable, one can always connect the cable directly to add'l TV's in the house for FREE analog channels. Also, no dishes and OTA antenna.

I'm not saying that cable is always the better value for everyone, everywhere. But, the difference is no longer quite so clear cut.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Comcast also offers $25 off for the first 16 months (a total of $400) to switch from Dish. So, for the first 16 months, my area Comcast is $58 vs. Dish's $90. Some people _may_ find that a better value.


----------



## garypen

kwajr said:


> They are also having trouble with there hd dvr. and i hey there is period


Once again, in English please.


----------



## Darkman

"They are also having troubles with their HD DVRs, and I hear there is a period....." 

or: "They are also having troubles with their HD DVRs, and...Hey! ...there is a period....."


----------



## Darkman

Unless some are having troubles with their monthly.. cycle  

Who knows....


----------



## Mike Richardson

Mikey said:


> $42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).


Can't get DSL in this part. SBC was too damned cheap to put in the lines correctly (and they only put them in November 2002, new development). If I could I would have switched the instant it became available.

Anyway the $27 price is for their 1.5/128 service while Earthlink is 3.0/384. SBC's 3.0/384 service is $37 (still cheaper).


----------



## Mike Richardson

garypen said:


> Plus, with cable, one can always connect the cable directly to add'l TV's in the house for FREE analog channels. Also, no dishes and OTA antenna.


A TV with plain crappy analog channels is not a fair comparison to a TV with a DBS or Digital Cable receiver.

Eventually cable companies are going to discontinue the extended analog channels - the space they use up is valuable. One analog channel equals about one satellite transponder, so in one analog channel space they can fit 10 - 12 digital channels, 2 - 3 high def channels, and many other data services. Therefore to get anything worthwhile you will need one of the currently rare digital cable-ready TVs (and cable companies usually still charge you a fee to connect those), or a digital cable box.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Mike123abc said:


> Well you get an HD DVR from the cable company, this costs you $550 from Dish... With 4 TVs in your chart showing Dish saving you $8/month it would take $550/8 or 68 months to break even... You are also adding $7 HD boxes which you cannot get from dish without paying $$. You also need to add $10/month for dish HDTV and $3/month to TWC which essentially erases any advantage Dish had since the digital packages from TWC included 16 base HD channels of which of course Dish has 0 HD programs in AEP.
> 
> Even in your case if you look at total money outlay it would take many years for you to come out ahead with Dish... But, wait your 921 will become a doorstop by that time... ouch... And if you add in HD pack you lose even more... Plus of course you do get a bunch of free TVs with analog cable channels thrown in by TWC, and if you pay the $$ for a cable card ready TV it only costs $1.50/month, dish still charges you $5/month and a DVR fee if you do not get AEP...
> 
> Where is the value from Dish?


What the hell? I wasn't talking about HDTVs or 921... just SDTV. All the TVs in my house are new, I am not gonna buy new TVs just to get crappy cable card.

In my situation DISH is cheaper, that's all there is to it. Hell I didn't even factor in DHA, you could save another $5 off of DISH with that plan.


----------



## shilton

Chris Blount said:


> Here is an update:
> 
> The increase *WILL* take effect Feb 1. Not March.
> 
> Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.


Ok, assuming that is true and correct, that tells me that Dish is anticipating people downgrading or in other words realizes there may be fallout from the seemingly high percentage of increase...so why not take steps to minimize it? If they know people will downgrade then they know the increase is too high. Am I looking at this the wrong way???


----------



## STL FAN

Is it possible this increase is preemptive so they can take a swing and buy VOOM? Just thinking out loud, but it would be a great way to justify the increase.


----------



## garypen

Mike Richardson said:


> A TV with plain crappy analog channels is not a fair comparison to a TV with a DBS or Digital Cable receiver..


Of course not. Never said it was. I was comparing apples to apples, one receiver only. I was only pointing out the _added value_ that one can still get the analog channels for free on _add'l _TV's. For many, that would be good enough. For instance, when I had digital cable, I had 2 digital receivers for the BR and LR, and the office and loft had analog directly into the TV's.

Since I now have my 721's RF output wired to the whole house (the Svid to the HT, and an 811 also wired to the HT), I will probably only get one dual-tuner HD DVR, if I switch to Comcast, as I am used to being setup that way with the 721.



Mike Richardson said:


> Eventually cable companies are going to discontinue the extended analog channels - the space they use up is valuable. One analog channel equals about one satellite transponder, so in one analog channel space they can fit 10 - 12 digital channels, 2 - 3 high def channels, and many other data services. Therefore to get anything worthwhile you will need one of the currently rare digital cable-ready TVs (and cable companies usually still charge you a fee to connect those), or a digital cable box.


That's a long way off. But, when it comes, I'll simply use one or two boxes for the whole house, as I do now with Dish.

OTOH, Comcast is adding digital simulcasts of the analog channels _right now_, so that digital subs don't suffer from the grainy PQ of analog. It's gonna look way better than Dish locals, I'll tell you that. Comcast already has all the local network affiliates DTV broadcasts in HD and SD. It'll be nice when they add the rest of my locals' DTV broadcasts via digital signal.


----------



## wkomorow

I appreciate the fact that there are people on fixed income for which any increase is an issue. For them, I am sorry about this increase. However, for the majority of people currently getting AEP isn't the real issue that they feel they are not getting anything more for their 4 extra dollars than the $4 itself. Isn't this more a public relations issue that can be off-set by adding some good channels, than a truly economic issue. 

Given the hassle of getting a new provider (staying home for an installer, for example) and given the fact that $4 a month really is not that much money for most people with AEP, I really do not see massive defection or downgrading.


----------



## musicmaker2020

Well I just downgraded from AEP to AT180. I just cant see paying those rates.

One thing I would like to point out is if you are willing to pay in advance you can avoid the increase for a year by paying annually before the increase. Not to mention its cheaper going annually over current rates to begin with.


----------



## finniganps

garypen said:


> Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
> *Comcast* Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
> HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
> *Total $83*
> _Hardware is free_, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.
> 
> *Dish* AT180/locals $53
> HD Pack $10
> HBO $14
> DVR Fee $ 5
> Warranty $6
> *Total $90*
> _Hardware is currently $600! _(Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)


Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR. If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison. First of all the warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's?


----------



## finniganps

garypen said:


> Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
> *Comcast* Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
> HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
> *Total $83*
> _Hardware is free_, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.
> 
> *Dish* AT180/locals $53
> HD Pack $10
> HBO $14
> DVR Fee $ 5
> Warranty $6
> *Total $90*
> _Hardware is currently $600! _(Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)


Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR. If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison. First of all the Dish warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1. In my area, Comcast was charging $1-$2/mo. for EACH remote as of June 2004...no charge for Dish on this. As you said, people might want to look at it, but I don't think it's compelling right now. The other thing to consider is that CABLE raises their rates EVERY year, Dish doesn't.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's?


----------



## BobMurdoch

Okayyyyy, so D* adds NBC HD, FOX HD and will be adding ABC HD soon.

E* loses CNN International and doesn't replace it, AND will be increasing prices.

So basically they have ceded the more reliable equipment award to D*, have ceded the HD programming award to D* (yeah, right.... YOU are the HD leader, E*, eh Chuckie?), and NOW they are whittling away at whatever price advantage they had. (I KNEW those Viacom and TNT renegotiations were gonna bite us in the tuckus eventually)

My two year commitment is up in November 2005 after being with E* (and defending them a lot) since May 2000. I'm losing faith fast. I like the Sirius channels but it ain't enough anymore.


----------



## Rick_R

DirecTV will have an increase too. Thge only question is when and how much. Dish has had an increase every Feb 1st for the last 3 or 4 years. Last year it was only $.01 for my AT120 package and $0 for the AT60 package.

By the way, when I left the local Comcast cable (now sold to Adelphia) in July of 2000 I paid $48 for 40 channels plus locals.

Rick R


----------



## garypen

finniganps said:


> Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR.


 I certainly will. 


finniganps said:


> If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison.


 Ummm. Why not? That makes no sense. Haven't you heard of research? Are you so happy with Dish that you do not look into alternatives?



finniganps said:


> First of all the Dish warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1.


 You're right. $1 per month and $600 for the Dish HD DVR.


finniganps said:


> In my area, Comcast was charging $1-$2/mo. for EACH remote as of June 2004...no charge for Dish on this.


 In my area, it's $10/month for HD programming, DVR fee, HD DVR receiver, and, believe it or not, the remote. (I use a universal, so the last point is moot.)


finniganps said:


> As you said, people might want to look at it, but I don't think it's compelling right now. The other thing to consider is that CABLE raises their rates EVERY year, Dish doesn't.


It's certainly compelling in my area. Plus, hasn't Dish raised their rates pretty regularly these last few years? My local Comcast digital package rates appear to be the same for a few years now. Perhaps they finally get the whole competition thing. The $25 discount for former DBS customers is a nice perk too.


finniganps said:


> I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's?


I am also interested to hear from them. I did read 74 pages of the Comcast 6412 w/iGuide thread over in AVS Forums. The 6412 certainly isn't perfect. But, it's by no means the debacle that the 921 was upon release. (The major issue is some units have bad power supplies causing random and frequent reboots. Luckily, they just swap 'em out. No special warranty or shipping charges needed.) It appears that it is currently about as reliable, if not moreso, than the 921 which has been out now for what? 2 years? (BTW, the 6412 has active firewire outputs.) The two things that seem lacking in the current software are full program search functions, which can also be done with a USB keyboard on my 721. (I'd miss that.) And, no PIP. (You can swap between tuners with a single click, though. Plus, both tuners are always buffering. No need for a special combination of keystrokes, like with the 721.)

BTW, how's the 522 doing nowadays? They ever get that one to work right?


----------



## James Long

bavaria72 said:


> JL you are the bomb (and sick by the way!). Can you do the same thing for D*?


Got a source for historical DirecTV pricing?

JL


----------



## bavaria72

Nah, never kept track (with D* from 97 until 03).


----------



## Tyralak

garypen said:


> BTW, how's the 522 doing nowadays? They ever get that one to work right?


Great. I install at least one a day, and they're consistantly the best performing unit. The customers love them.


----------



## chaddux

Tyralak said:


> Great. I install at least one a day, and they're consistantly the best performing unit. The customers love them.


I *heart* mine.


----------



## garypen

Excellent. I understand they were frought with many problems not too long ago. Which SW update did the trick?

Did they ever officially start selling/leasing them to existing customers?


----------



## Guest

garypen said:


> I am also interested to hear from them. I did read 74 pages of the Comcast 6412 w/iGuide thread over in AVS Forums. The 6412 certainly isn't perfect. But, it's by no means the debacle that the 921 was upon release. (The major issue is some units have bad power supplies causing random and frequent reboots. Luckily, they just swap 'em out. No special warranty or shipping charges needed.) It appears that it is currently about as reliable, if not moreso, than the 921 which has been out now for what? 2 years? (BTW, the 6412 has active firewire outputs.) The two things that seem lacking in the current software are full program search functions, which can also be done with a USB keyboard on my 721. (I'd miss that.) And, no PIP. (You can swap between tuners with a single click, though. Plus, both tuners are always buffering. No need for a special combination of keystrokes, like with the 721.)


I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues. I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412. Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it. I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO. I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote


----------



## Tyralak

garypen said:


> Excellent. I understand they were frought with many problems not too long ago. Which SW update did the trick?
> 
> Did they ever officially start selling/leasing them to existing customers?


It must have. The NBR also works wonderfully. They will lease them to existing customers, but only if you've been a customer for at least year, and commit to another year.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Tyralak said:


> It must have. The NBR also works wonderfully. They will lease them to existing customers, but only if you've been a customer for at least year, and commit to another year.


Where did you hear this? I am a DHP (old lease) customer with AEP and I'd love to save $5 per month and get rid of two 301s.


----------



## garypen

dont24 said:


> I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues. I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412. Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it. I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO. I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote


Thanks man. That sort of stuff really helps people make a decision. In my area, the 6412 is only $10/mo. But, even at $15, it's probably better than paying $550 for a 921, plus the $5/mo DVR fee.

BTW, the so-called mute _bug_ is probably a design _feature_. It prevents damage to your sound system, or waking people up at night, when it turns on for unattended recording. The workaround is to leave the power on, or program a receiver mute toggle command into your remote.


----------



## Chris Walker

Wow, they are jacking the prices up $3 on a package that they have added NOTHING to and even lost a channel(CNNFN)? I am gone from E* when my billing cycle is up if this happens and new legitimate channels (Bingo or MallTV don't cut it Chuck) aren't added.


----------



## Paul Secic

kwajr said:


> i think this might explain why they need to increase revenue http://modulusvideo.com/main.php?action=item&Page=22&id=6


My guess: blame it on the NFL & NBA!


----------



## Tyralak

Mike Richardson said:


> Where did you hear this? I am a DHP (old lease) customer with AEP and I'd love to save $5 per month and get rid of two 301s.


They talk about it constantly on channel 101. They call it the "Dish'n it up" plan.


----------



## Bobby94928

Chris Walker said:


> Wow, they are jacking the prices up $3 on a package that they have added NOTHING to and even lost a channel(CNNFN)? I am gone from E* when my billing cycle is up if this happens and new legitimate channels (Bingo or MallTV don't cut it Chuck) aren't added.


I say this every year at this time, the time of the year that rates go up. You have a job, and put out the same productivity year in and year out. Do you expect a raise? Someone has to pay for that raise, it's the consumer!!!


----------



## shilton

Paul Secic said:


> My guess: blame it on the NFL & NBA!


 All I ask is why are those of us who could care less about the NBA or the NFL having to pay for it year after year. These channels really are beginning to price themselves into the realm of being considered premium channels. Sooner or later they are going to have to be treated as such and the people who want them can pay for them and those who don't won't have to. I can tell you if ESPN and the Fox Sports channels were dropped today I'd never even notice. I know not everyone feels this way, but these channels are just not the same as Lifetime or any of the others people gripe about. I don't watch them either but they are not driving up my rates that high. The whole sports world is out of line with these neverending players salaries and we the customers who may or may not watch should not have to foot the bill. Time to put them into a tier of their own or make them PPV's


----------



## Paul Secic

wkomorow said:


> I appreciate the fact that there are people on fixed income for which any increase is an issue. For them, I am sorry about this increase. However, for the majority of people currently getting AEP isn't the real issue that they feel they are not getting anything more for their 4 extra dollars than the $4 itself. Isn't this more a public relations issue that can be off-set by adding some good channels, than a truly economic issue.
> 
> Given the hassle of getting a new provider (staying home for an installer, for example) and given the fact that $4 a month really is not that much money for most people with AEP, I really do not see massive defection or downgrading.


I'm on a fixed income and I'm not downgrading, or saying I'm going back to cable. Everythings going up. I enjoy History Intl Hallmark . I think people here like to grip My PG&E bill is going up? Should I cancel it? Heck no!


----------



## Chris Freeland

Here in Chattanooga Comcast just today, just announced a price increase of $2.50/mo for Preferred Basic, which is now $43.75/mo and will soon be $46.25/mo for 65 analog Chanel's, 8 of which are locals. Compare E* AT60w/locals for $29.99/mo, soon to be $31.99/mo, C* Preferred Basic has a slightly better line up but not $14/mo extra and AT120w/locals for $39.99/mo soon to be $42.99/mo has not only more channels then Preferred Basic but has the quality too. If you add Digital Plus, it is an additional $14.95/mo or a total of $78.70/mo soon to be $61.20/mo, E* AT180w/locals at $49.99/mo soon to be $52.99/mo is still a much better value here then Comcast.


----------



## Nick Graham

They get The Horror Channel, I'll gladly pay the increase. They definitely seem to be losing momentum to D*, even without factoring in the increase. Now that I have finally acquired an HDTV, I plan on getting some HD programming once my current committment is over. Whether I stick with Dish or move to DirecTV is squarely in Dish's hands. Is the current quality of Dish HD broadcasts as shoddy as I've read it is?


----------



## Jacob S

Unfortunately not everyone gets a pay increase to make up for the inflation so when prices goes up and everything adds up, it means having to cut something out for those that go from check to check not saving anything back having all of their money spent every payday.


----------



## garypen

Paul Secic said:


> I'm on a fixed income and I'm not downgrading, or saying I'm going back to cable. Everythings going up. I enjoy History Intl Hallmark . I think people here like to grip My PG&E bill is going up? Should I cancel it? Heck no!


You left out the part where you call the complainers "young whippersnappers".


----------



## Moorebid

dont24 said:


> I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues.


Except for the 508 and 510, I'm in exactly the same boat. (I've also had a 6000 and a 4000, as well as a 921 for 2 weeks back in May, and my Grandma just got a 522, but otherwise, same boat. ) I also have no power supply issues, and I have two 6412's, one with a Seagate drive, the other a Maxtor QuickView. The Seagate has a more audible whine when the drive spins, but otherwise no difference between the two boxes&#8230; they both operate precisely the same (both positively and negatively).



> I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412.


Not a bug, but it's already been covered here. Just need to have both mute functions programmed into the remote (or else leave the receiver on at all times, which also circumvents the auto-power-down-after-timer-has-ended-even-if you've-already-stopped-recording-and-changed-channels bug).



> Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it.


Unfortunately, I've not been so lucky. Fortunately, nothing _extremely_ major, but irritating nonetheless. First off, guide data regarding new/repeat episodes is woefully inadequate. The OTA's - for the most part - are accurate, but NONE of the cable channels - basic or premium - seem to use the "repeat flag" (or whatever equivalent) whatsoever. This makes "First-Run" NBR recording impossible. Instead, I'm forced to go into "Scheduled Recordings" and manually deselect all the undesirable timers, with which I guess I could live, if it didn't seem to forget every manual deselection I make with seeming regularity every night or so (which may have been temporarily fixed with a reboot, time will tell). I'm basically forced into babysitting all my season passes every day. *shrug* The extent to which we go to ensure we don't miss a thing (and/or waste space).

But that's not the end of it&#8230; lets say my season pass records the first showing of a program which airs multiple times during the week (any HBO or Showtime original series fits the bill). It's at least smart enough to know when it's recorded a specific program and not to duplicate what it already has, but if you delete that recording, it'll pick up the same episode again the next time it's on. *shrug* As I understand, this is similar to the way the Dish 522's EBR recording functions.

Also, after a certain amount of time (around two weeks, I estimate), if the box hasn't been rebooted, one of the tuners will cease to be able to display what program is on the channel to which it is tuned, instead displaying "To Be Announced." This makes it impossible to record what is already existing in the buffer; instead, it tunes the other tuner to the same channel and starts recording from live. In order to get around it, one simply needs to pull the plug to reboot the box&#8230; simple&#8230; right, 'cept then it has to fully redownload the guide data, which takes several hours. *shrug*

Aside from that, nothing major&#8230; I've only had one scheduled recording (to my knowledge) that didn't record, and I've no idea why&#8230; even after the timer had already completed, it was still listed, although with the name, "To Be Announced." Another timer was scheduled to fire right afterward on the same channel, which went without incident. Bizarre&#8230;



> I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO.


I don't mind the menus so much, but the 6412/iGuide barely has any search function at all. It's restricted to titles only, it is not keyword based, and it only allows you to punch in the first four letters via scroll-cubes (for wont of a better term; you select a cube, press up and down to scroll to the desired letter/number, then press right to move on to the next cube)&#8230; it's a real PITA, but it's at least as responsive while inputting the title as a TiVo, which is more than I can say for Dish's boxes. At least the 5xx series doesn't take too _terribly_ long, maybe 15-20 seconds to fully search the 9 days it has, longer if there's a lot of hits. The 921, OTOH, takes 1-2 *minutes*, and doesn't display anything until it's completely finished (whereas the 5xx displays as it goes)! But the 522 is *FAST*, few seconds at most (and it too displays as it goes). How's that for a comparison? 



> I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote


And that's something that gets glazed over a bit, or misreported, or maybe it's just wildly different among regions, but hardware cost is of concern.

If I may get slightly off tangent here from the PVR's and just delve into costs in general, I think we can all agree that for basic, no frills, television service, E*/D* beats Comcast/Time Warner/et. al. hands down&#8230; especially when you get into cable's digital service packages, they just don't compete. When you start adding premium packages, however, things start to level out&#8230; especially when HDTV comes into the mix, then things are virtually even.

However, hardware costs aren't even close to fair with cable, *unless* you want an HD-PVR. See, they may give you a standard definition digital cable box (and remote) with your digital cable subscription, but each additional box is $10/mo. That's just ridiculous&#8230; when DBS receivers are basically free, and access fees are $5/mo, the least they should be able to do is match that. My grandmother was recently paying $75 for digital standard cable ($59) with two receivers ($10 additional, plus $6 in taxes and other various sundries, another thing about which most people with satellite don't currently have to worry). *$75!* That same package with Dish would [currently] cost $55 (AT180 + extra receiver). Even better, if you get the 522, it's the same $5 for two TV's, plus VOD service. So that's the route she went, she took the 522, dropped down to AT120 and picked up HBO instead, and after both rate hikes, she'll still be saving ~$20 a month. Even if she'd just rid herself of one of her cable boxes, she'd still be paying $10/mo more with no HBO (though more Encore channels), digital on only one television, and no PVR. Cable just cannot compete with standard digital packages, especially when multiple televisions are involved.

Then there's the HD boxes&#8230; an HD receiver (non-PVR) costs an additional $5/mo, that's *on top* of the $10/mo for a standard receiver. So $5 for the first receiver, $15 for each additional receiver. Compared to the $5/mo lease of an 811, that's still no comparison (ignoring all other factors, like functionality (or lack thereof) of the boxes, picture quality, etc.).

But the HD PVR's&#8230; that's where the tables are turned. $10/mo additional for the 6412 ($10 for the first, $20 for each additional) may seem like quite a bit, but as long as the competition keeps selling theirs for $550/$1000, and still keeps charging VOD/TiVo fees on top of their access fees, cable beats 'em hard&#8230; especially with price parity on HD programming. That's the only case I can make for cable, the only case where it makes sense&#8230; the rest of the time, D*/E* wins the cost war, even with their respective price hikes. But of course, this is entirely variable depending upon your local cable company. And we still have yet to see what the Moxi's are going to cost&#8230;


----------



## James Long

I can't find a site for D* prices as concise as TNGTony's E* price change page, so these figures are taken from old DBSTalk forum posts. If anyone has a better source, please provide!

*March 2004 Increase*
TC w/o locals - $33.99 to $36.99 (+$3 8.8% up)
TC w/ locals - $38.99 to $39.99 (+$1 2.6% up)

TC+ w/o locals - $37.99 to $39.99 (+$2 5.3% up)
TC+ w/ locals - $39.99 to $42.99 (+$3 7.5% up)

TCP w/o locals - $85.99 to $87.99 (+$2 2.3% up)
TCP w/ locals - $87.99 to $90.99 (+$3 3.4% up)

*March 2003 Increase*
TC w/o locals - $31.99 to $33.99 (+$2 6.3% up - now 15.6% over pre '03)
TC w/ locals - $37.99 to $38.99 (+$1 2.6% up - now 5.3% over pre '03)

The trick with D* increases is that they have been sliding the cost of locals around - a $6 difference for TC subscribers pre Mar '03 (and $2 for TC+ and TCP) is now $3 across the board.

*January 2003 to present*
A TC w/o locals subscriber has now seen a 15.6% increase (from $31.99 to $36.99) while an AT120 w/o locals subscriber over the same period has seen 9.4% ($31.99 to $34.99). Due to the locals adjustments, a TC w/locals subscriber in Jan 2003 has now seen only a 5.3% increase (from $37.99 to $39.99 - sock it to those without locals!) while an AT120 w/locals subscriber over the same period saw the same change ($37.98 to $39.99 - E* did their own locals adjustment). D*'s last increase was 2.3%-8.8%, E*'s a month earlier no worse than 4.7%.

When D* announces their next price increase I suspect it will be in line with E*'s increase.

JL


----------



## Link

A $3 package increase is too much unless they add something to the packages like give AT60 a few extra (worthwhile) channels as well at AT120 and AT180.

Channels like Hallmark and GAC should be in the AT120 now. Additional channels like Fit TV, Ovation, Oxygen, VH1 Country should be in the AT180 if they'll ever add them.


----------



## hambone

One of the best threads ever. Keep it going.


----------



## Jaspear

Link said:


> Channels like Hallmark and GAC should be in the AT120 now. Additional channels like Fit TV, Ovation, Oxygen, VH1 Country should be in the AT180 if they'll ever add them.


CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!


----------



## James Long

Jaspear said:


> CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!


CNN fn was in AT120, so if CNNI goes on let's put it at AT120 or AT60?  thankyouverymuch

I suspect we will see several new channels and AT120 subscribers will get a couple of them as well. AT120 subscribers are getting the largest increase in February: 8.6%, with bumped AT180 6.7% and AEP 5.1% If any group needs to be thrown a bone it is AT120's!

Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.

JL


----------



## Cholly

garypen said:


> You left out the part where you call the complainers "young whippersnappers".


I don't have to agree with Gary :lol: 
I'm older than dirt, so I'll call the complainers that.
Hell, 3 bucks a month is sooo much less than the increase you've had to pay for gas for your car in the past year. It's less than the price of a couple latte's at Starbux.
We all need to look at things in perspective. The infrastructure cost per viewer to the dbs companies is far higher than that for the cable companies. Bandwidth costs are far higher.
Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.

TANSTAAFL
:grin:


----------



## hambone

Cholly said:


> Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.
> 
> TANSTAAFL
> :grin:


How can that be the case? The ISP has no way of knowing if you are using a router or not. I suppose it might be technically possible, but a router uses one external IP and routes the traffic through multiple internal IPs. Worse case scenario, you could use internet sharing on your main computer and connect the other PCs that way, assuming you're using Windows.


----------



## Link

I wouldn't complain on a $3 increase for AT180 if I thought it was worth it. I think $49.99 now is too much for the package now--compared with Directv's equilvalent Total Choice Plus for $42.99. (I don't care if E* gives TMC and Encore channels in this--not worth $7).

I think I'll switch to Top 60 for $31.99. Its not worth $21 more a month to get GAC, Hallmark, and VH1 Classic. Now if they were to add some things like VH1 Country, MTV Hits, etc. it might be worth keeping.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Cholly said:


> Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.


That's total bull! I have 4 computers connected to my Linksys router connected to Earthlink Cable modem with absolutely NO problems. Earthlink works perfectly fine with routers - who told you it didn't? If Time Warner said it didn't, then they're damn liars - they're telling you crap to get you to buy RoadRunner, so they can get more money.


----------



## scooper

Even at that - most of the SOHO NAT routers have a feature that will "clone" the MAC Address of a PC.


----------



## ClaudeR

TonyB said:


> Does anyone know whether you can drop service without the fee, IF its at the time of a rate increase?


I agree that they SHOULD waive the fee with the increase, it's only fair. D* NEVER charges for package changes. Either that, or we get to make a big stink of it.


----------



## Chris Blount

I posted this a couple of day ago but I guess it's worth repeating:



> Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.


----------



## BFG

They should just pull the charge period, but of course that's asking to much...


----------



## garypen

justalurker said:


> Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.
> 
> JL


Oh yeah? What kind of bones? You can tell me. It'll be our secret. New channels, or channels trickling down from AT180?

Personally, I think they should make Sundance a part of the base package, instead of the Showtime pack (at least AT180). I believe Comcast does it that way in my area, IIRC.

I'd like to see Hallmark, Nat'l Geo, and Fox Movies, and a few of the other channels found on D's TC pack, move down to AT120, as well.


----------



## BFG

CSTV, Oxygen, and The starz sampler channel.


----------



## Ray_Clum

I'm still interested in finding out what Dish's Telco partners (primarily SBC as I am in their area) will do after Dish increases prices.


----------



## James Long

Ray_Clum said:


> I'm still interested in finding out what Dish's Telco partners (primarily SBC as I am in their area) will do after Dish increases prices.


Probably collect a bigger cut when they pass it on to their subscribers. Tis life.

JL


----------



## James Long

garypen said:


> Oh yeah? What kind of bones? You can tell me. It'll be our secret. New channels, or channels trickling down from AT180?
> 
> Personally, I think they should make Sundance a part of the base package, instead of the Showtime pack (at least AT180). I believe Comcast does it that way in my area, IIRC.
> 
> I'd like to see Hallmark, Nat'l Geo, and Fox Movies, and a few of the other channels found on D's TC pack, move down to AT120, as well.


As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.

Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120.

PIs "The Pentagon Channel" and "New Abilities TV" are warming up on 61.5/148 - but I wouldn't consider them bone channels.

And there is a clamor for CNNI, but that has not yet been uplinked as its own channel and the former CNNfn feed that went to black has now been pulled off of the satellite. That would be a VERY worthwhile bone to some viewers.

The three channels you list would be nice for AT120s as well, but I wonder if good channels are dropped out of AT180 without new channels if it will encourage people to drop down their subscription level and negate the value to E* of the price increase. They need to keep people at their current levels somehow.

As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120. If we got those six having Sundance move to AT180 wouldn't be bad.

CNNI and/or Sundance at AT120 would be icing on the cake.

If it were up to me, I'd raise the "with locals" packages $1 less than the "w/o locals" to narrow the price gap and encourage more people to voluntarily fork over more money by upgrading. D*'s price gap of $3 is a good goal, and when we get to the 2006 increase E* could adjust the w/o locals packs again to reach it.

JL


----------



## Bahnzo

BFG said:


> They should just pull the charge period, but of course that's asking to much...


Here's a valid reason for the downgrade fee: People ordering say HBO just for a night to watch a fight, or upgrading to a package just to watch a channel for a night. The downgrade fee is precisley for these reasons. When the fee didn't exist, people would do this all the time.

Also, not to be nitpicky, but some programming was added this year....Sirius music channels. Sure not exactly what people were asking for, but 60+ channels of music in all styles nothing to sneeze at.


----------



## James Long

Bahnzo said:


> Here's a valid reason for the downgrade fee: People ordering say HBO just for a night to watch a fight, or upgrading to a package just to watch a channel for a night. The downgrade fee is precisley for these reasons. When the fee didn't exist, people would do this all the time.


Add line to contract: "Minimum subscription period of 30 days applies to all premium packages." That would be worse than the $5 charge for the people you refer to.


Bahnzo said:


> Also, not to be nitpicky, but some programming was added this year....Sirius music channels. Sure not exactly what people were asking for, but 60+ channels of music in all styles nothing to sneeze at.


Sirius is basically paid programming. E* is using the 61 channels to advertise the sale of Sirius tuners for cars and homes. Just another "Shopping Channel" - but at least the content is better.

JL


----------



## Link

Isn't a $3 price increase the largest one E* has done at one time? If I recall, I used to have Top 150 for $39.99, locals/superstations for 7.99 and $4.99 for the other box so $52.97 a month.

Now the same thing 3 years later is going to be $52.99-Top 180/locals, Superstations 5.99, and 4.99 extra box so $63.97.--over $10 more? It just does not seem worth it. Are the two TMC channels plus Encore themes worth $7? Directv's Total Choice Plus w/locals is $42.99 which seems like a better value.

I think with these price increases and customers getting distants cut off, that they will be losing customers to cable and Directv. I know a lot of people keep E* because they get distants unavailable on Directv and if their gone, then the customers probably will be too. Plus Directv is accomodating markets missing WB while E* is charging them the extra $1.50.

I have always liked E* over Directv, but after the recent Viacom dispute and their upcoming price increases, I'm losing confidence in them. 

E* puts out receivers with all sorts of bugs and has done poor planning putting locals on second dishes. Now the FCC is forcing them to stop the 2 dish requirement for locals and all customers are having to pay for it.
They won't even put CBS-HD on the main satellites while Directv has added NBC and Fox HD this year and is adding ABC possibly in January. It looks like cable and Directv are getting better while E* is getting worse.


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## lee120

abc-hd is now live on directv!!!


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## Cholly

Mike Richardson said:


> That's total bull! I have 4 computers connected to my Linksys router connected to Earthlink Cable modem with absolutely NO problems. Earthlink works perfectly fine with routers - who told you it didn't? If Time Warner said it didn't, then they're damn liars - they're telling you crap to get you to buy RoadRunner, so they can get more money.


My experience wasn't that good. What happened with me -- At the time I signed up with Earthlink, I had two computers and my standalone TiVo connected to a D-Link 704P wired router. When connected to the router, I could not configure the system, period. I couldn't access help or any of the radio buttons on the welcome screen. Tried to contact customer support thru the help function but the help function would not work. I couldn't even e-mail tech support Tried calling Earthlink directly and got a message to use online help. There was NO way to talk to a live person to get advice on setting up my system. It was unfortunate, because I really liked the features Earthlink offered. After a week of trying, I gave up and went back to Road Runner. The only bright side was that TWC gave me a $10 discount for a year for going back to RR. :lol:


----------



## James Long

Link said:


> Isn't a $3 price increase the largest one E* has done at one time?


The low end package (currently AT60) has never seen more than a $2 price increase - and it is only going up $2 after the two year price freeze ends.
The 2nd level package (currently AT120) jumped $3.99 in April 1998 when it changed from the name AT50 to AT60 and soon after AT100CD. It has not seen greater than $2 since.
The 3rd level package (currently AT180) has only seen $2 at a time since it was created in 2000. That started at the price you recall ($39.99) and it lasted until Feb 2002 when in was raised to $40.99.
AEP saw a $3 jump in February 2002 and February 2004.

$3 jumps are rare (thankfully) but not unheard of. Note the D* price changes last year as well!

JL


----------



## Mike Richardson

lee120 said:


> abc-hd is now live on directv!!!


Where the hell are they getting the bandwidth to put up all of these new HD channels.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Cholly said:


> My experience wasn't that good. What happened with me -- At the time I signed up with Earthlink, I had two computers and my standalone TiVo connected to a D-Link 704P wired router. When connected to the router, I could not configure the system, period. I couldn't access help or any of the radio buttons on the welcome screen. Tried to contact customer support thru the help function but the help function would not work. I couldn't even e-mail tech support Tried calling Earthlink directly and got a message to use online help. There was NO way to talk to a live person to get advice on setting up my system. It was unfortunate, because I really liked the features Earthlink offered. After a week of trying, I gave up and went back to Road Runner. The only bright side was that TWC gave me a $10 discount for a year for going back to RR. :lol:


Earthlink and RoadRunner use the exact same modems, and go through the exact same network. The exact same technician installs it, and you pay the exact same place (Time Warner). The only difference is the Earthlink name, your IP resolves to Mindspring (earthlink), and Earthlink e-mail.

There is no earthly reason why Earthlink would not work.


----------



## kwajr

Mike Richardson said:


> Earthlink and RoadRunner use the exact same modems, and go through the exact same network. The exact same technician installs it, and you pay the exact same place (Time Warner). The only difference is the Earthlink name, your IP resolves to Mindspring (earthlink), and Earthlink e-mail.
> 
> There is no earthly reason why Earthlink would not work.


if you listened to the meassge when you called earthlink you can talk to a person but i find it quicker to call the tw office and follow those prompts to earthlink it gets you through quick


----------



## leegart

Jaspear said:


> CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!


We need to keep telling E* that we feel that way!!! What's the point of all these channels if it's just a greater number of the same thing (Home Shopping, Sports, PPV, Discovery Ying Yang, The History Duplication Channel,) without international news stations?! This is where satellite TV can distinguish itself from Cable! Where are CNNi, INN, DW, BBC World, CBC??? CCTV was a good start but ONLY a start.


----------



## hongcho

> Where the hell are they getting the bandwidth to put up all of these new HD channels.

From the other channels, of course. 

But then, their NFL ST HD channels will go away in a day...

Hong.


----------



## Jaspear

chaddux said:


> AT150?


AT180 minus all the compelling shopping channels 

Anyway, regardless of my ability to keep up with Charlie's marketing department, CNNI needs to be back _where it used to be_. With CNNI available on weekends and overnight during the week, CNNfn was clearly miss named. CNN corrected that problem by dropping CNNfn. All Dish needed to do was continue with CNNI, which ironically, probably had more viewers than CNNfn.


----------



## Moorebid

justalurker said:


> As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120.


I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."

Well, that and TiVo&#8230;


----------



## James Long

Moorebid said:


> I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."[/size]


If you will pay anything for one channel it makes sense to find the best deal on that one channel.

I looked at the local cable prices last night, or tried to since their analog cable rates are no longer posted. The packages have changed in the past year and Basic Cable (lifeline) is 19 channels: mostly locals, shopping and local origination. Standard Cable (analog) is 59 channels and the last I saw it was the same price as AT120 - about $40. The cable analog channels missing from AT120 are Telemundo, Hallmark, Oxygen, The Golf Channel and Outdoor Life (not to be confused with The Outdoor Channel).

AT120 also includes 22 channels available only on cable's digital tier ($54.99 and up!) and 40 channels not available on my town's cable system at any price (some are shopping and PIs, but that still leaves about 20 valuable channels I get in AT120 that cable doesn't carry AT ALL). Bringing in the five "analog channels" would make this market more competitive, but E* is competing against all cable not individual markets.

Putting Hallmark in AT120 (or AT60) would be a good idea to get the basics back in the simple package and to undercut D* on a really good channel.

JL


----------



## garypen

justalurker said:


> As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.
> 
> Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120.


 What do you mean by "warming up"? Dish already has the EncorePlex and Sundance channels. Isn't it just a matter of re-assigning them to AT120, which would open them up the receivers of AT120 subs? I'm not complaining. Just curious. I like the sound of these channels coming down.



justalurker said:


> And there is a clamor for CNNI, but that has not yet been uplinked as its own channel and the former CNNfn feed that went to black has now been pulled off of the satellite. That would be a VERY worthwhile bone to some viewers.


 Agreed.



justalurker said:


> As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120. If we got those six having Sundance move to AT180 wouldn't be bad.
> 
> CNNI and/or Sundance at AT120 would be icing on the cake.


Oh yeah! Personally, I'd rather have Sundance than the EncorePlex, anyday. They should leave EncorePlex, and some of the other stuff like Discovery "Plex", as the AT180 carrots.

But, Hallmark, FMC, Sundance, and Oxygen would go a long way to placating many a grumpy sub, myself included. Now, all they'd have to do is stop compressing the crap out of the Locals, and offer a _working_ HD DVR for lease. (What's the current "dish" on the 942, anyway?)


----------



## leegart

Jaspear said:


> Anyway, regardless of my ability to keep up with Charlie's marketing department, CNNI needs to be back _where it used to be_. With CNNI available on weekends and overnight during the week, CNNfn was clearly miss named. CNN corrected that problem by dropping CNNfn. All Dish needed to do was continue with CNNI, which ironically, probably had more viewers than CNNfn.


Amen.


----------



## James Long

garypen said:


> justalurker said:
> 
> 
> 
> As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.
> 
> Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "warming up"? Dish already has the EncorePlex and Sundance channels. Isn't it just a matter of re-assigning them to AT120, which would open them up the receivers of AT120 subs?
Click to expand...

Encore MoviePlex is not available to any E* customer at this time (except the usual non-mere-mortals). The individual channels of Encore are in AT180, but MoviePlex is a distinct channel that rotates through the genres - pointless if you have the multi-channel Encore and a perfect fit for AT120.

Sundance is there in the 300's, but it is also on 136 (for non-mere-mortals) which is a good sign that it may be moving down. It should be a mirror using the same bandwidth for both Sundance channels - I have not looked that closely. But the channel number is warming up, and it would be good at AT120.


garypen said:


> Hallmark, FMC, Sundance, and Oxygen would go a long way to placating many a grumpy sub, myself included.


Agreed - and there are enough signs (as noted earlier in this thread) that there are bones coming.

JL


----------



## shilton

Well, if Dish would just move Boomerang down into AT120, I'd drop my AT180 and the kids would still be happy. Kinda sad, but Boomerang is the only reason I got AT180 in the first place since Cartoon Network has gone to the dogs so badly! I watch all the Discovery stuff, etc but I could live without it. Boomerang even I would miss


----------



## ehren

Hell I could get my Granny Dish if Hallmark wasn't in the freakin AT180 package! But you know how old people are, any channel above 36 is hard to remember.


----------



## Mike Richardson

ehren said:


> Hell I could get my Granny Dish if Hallmark wasn't in the freakin AT180 package! But you know how old people are, any channel above 36 is hard to remember.


My grandma can barely turn on the damn 301. Just about every day I have to go to her room because the actual TV is on channel 59 (which is not even a valid channel) spewing static instead of being on INPUT. Or she got the 301 on but not the TV or vice versa.


----------



## red hazard

justalurker said:


> CNN fn was in AT120, so if CNNI goes on let's put it at AT120 or AT60?  thankyouverymuch
> 
> I suspect we will see several new channels and AT120 subscribers will get a couple of them as well. AT120 subscribers are getting the largest increase in February: 8.6%, with bumped AT180 6.7% and AEP 5.1% If any group needs to be thrown a bone it is AT120's!
> 
> Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.
> 
> JL


Last year on the AEP Errguns exceed the cost of inflation on the AEP with a 4% increase and this year it's 5.1%, also exceeding the yearly inflation rate. I'm down grading and if they charge that $5 nuisance fee for down grading, then I'll see what D* has to offer. This is the last straw!


----------



## Chris Freeland

shilton said:


> Well, if Dish would just move Boomerang down into AT120, I'd drop my AT180 and the kids would still be happy. Kinda sad, but Boomerang is the only reason I got AT180 in the first place since Cartoon Network has gone to the dogs so badly! I watch all the Discovery stuff, etc but I could live without it. Boomerang even I would miss


That is one reason E* is reluctant to move channels down to a lower tear. E* has done this in the past , Speed for example used to be a AT180 channel and they moved it down to AT120, but this is extremely rare and E* usually does not do this. However since a $3 increase for AT120 and 180 is larger then usual, maybe they will drop a few channels down to AT120, but if they do this some new channels will need to be added to AT180 to keep from too many people from dropping from 180 to 120 and E* will continue to need to make 180 worth the extra $10 over the price of 120.

In my humble opinion E* should reduce the price of locals when bundled with a basic package to match D* at $3, which would mean a $0 increase for AT60/AT60+w/locals, a $1 increase for AT120/180 w/locals and only a $2 increase for AEP w/locals, this might incourage more people to take the locals.


----------



## Link

Moorebid said:


> I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."
> 
> Well, that and TiVo&#8230;


I don't understand how Hallmark ever ended up in the Top 180 anyway.

But you're right especially if E* price increase makes the AT180 52.99 that is $10 more than Directv's equivalent Total Choice Plus for $42.99. However, Directv will probabably raise its price a $1 or so, but still $43.99 for all the channels plus locals that Directv gives is a real value over Dish's expensive Top 180.


----------



## Paul Secic

garypen said:


> Oh yeah? What kind of bones? You can tell me. It'll be our secret. New channels, or channels trickling down from AT180?
> 
> Personally, I think they should make Sundance a part of the base package, instead of the Showtime pack (at least AT180). I believe Comcast does it that way in my area, IIRC.
> 
> I'd like to see Hallmark, Nat'l Geo, and Fox Movies, and a few of the other channels found on D's TC pack, move down to AT120, as well.


When I had AT&T Cable back in 1999 they had Sundance, Ovation on the digital tier, which I paid $10 extra.

Sidebar: Comcast in the SF Bay Area is putting WGN on analog CH 33.


----------



## Mike Richardson

I'd like to see Hallmark in AT120 and then add Oxygen to AT180.


----------



## James Long

red hazard said:


> I'll see what D* has to offer.


D* offered a hefty increase last March. They will likely offer another this coming march. Your choice.

JL


----------



## JohnH

Noticed there is a click to see info about the new prices on my online account. Also a feedback option.


----------



## jeffwtux

Tyralak said:


> I agree, Nipper. McCain was threatening the pay tv industry with more regulation if they didn't stop the gouging. I guess it's time to see if he makes good on his word.


If any congressional committee wants to go after the source of the problem, they must start with the sports broadcasters like ESPN, and the RSNs. They are OUT OF REALITY AND OUT OF CONTROL!!! There are simply no market forces that are having any ability to force them to deal with the laws of of supply and demand. Then go after the conglomerates that are forcing excessive bundling.


----------



## Link

JohnH said:


> Noticed there is a click to see info about the new prices on my online account. Also a feedback option.


Yes I see that too now. I never received any e-mail or letter from them on the price increases.

Does anyone know what Directv's increase will be. Right now Top 120/locals is $42.99 the same price was Directv's Total Choice Plus/locals--what a joke. Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package.

I'll be going back to 120 or even 60 now.


----------



## jeffwtux

leegart said:


> We need to keep telling E* that we feel that way!!! What's the point of all these channels if it's just a greater number of the same thing (Home Shopping, Sports, PPV, Discovery Ying Yang, The History Duplication Channel,) without international news stations?! This is where satellite TV can distinguish itself from Cable! Where are CNNi, INN, DW, BBC World, CBC??? CCTV was a good start but ONLY a start.


BBCWorld and CBC?

I'm not sure they have the rights to broadcast those, except for maybe the local Windsor CBC 9 here in the Metro Detroit area and maybe in Buffalo too.(who cares with the NHL hockey strike/lockout eliminating CBC Hockey Night in Canada)


----------



## jeffwtux

Moorebid said:


> I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."
> 
> Well, that and TiVo&#8230;


I have a VERY DOMB question:

What exactly is on the Hallmark Channel?
Lassie, Little House? What?


----------



## BFG

I sure hope D* does increase their prices because OMG this is friggin ridiculus!! What an outrageous price increase!! 42.99 for AT120?!? Like link saied D* TC+ is the same price and TC alone still has more channels than AT120


----------



## BFG

> DISH Network has been a leader in product innovations with HDTV (High Definition Television), DVR (Digital Video Recorder) and ITV (Interactive Television).


LMAO!!!


----------



## BFG




----------



## BFG




----------



## ds650

_I sure hope D* does increase their prices because OMG this is friggin ridiculus!! What an outrageous price increase!!_

What???!!! Not me, I'm with D*. Just jump ship & join D*.


----------



## Bobby94928

jeffwtux said:


> I have a VERY DOMB question:
> 
> What exactly is on the Hallmark Channel?
> Lassie, Little House? What?


Try here: http://hallmarkchannel.com/us_framework.jsp?CNTRY=US


----------



## BobMurdoch

OK, dumb question.....

I'm on Credit Card AutoPay and I get electronic statements instead of a paper bill....

How am I supposed to use this coupon? Do they list an address to use?


----------



## rcwilcox

Mike Richardson said:


> My grandma can barely turn on the damn 301. Just about every day I have to go to her room because the actual TV is on channel 59 (which is not even a valid channel) spewing static instead of being on INPUT. Or she got the 301 on but not the TV or vice versa.


mike get an EZ remote that fixes this have same problem with MIL


----------



## SAEMike

BobMurdoch said:


> OK, dumb question.....
> 
> I'm on Credit Card AutoPay and I get electronic statements instead of a paper bill....
> 
> How am I supposed to use this coupon? Do they list an address to use?


You will recieve a letter in the mail announcing the price increase. With this letter will be your ppv coupon and they will attach an envelope to return it in.

To use it, order your ppv movie, and when it appears on your statement (you can check online pretty easily) then fill out the coupon and mail it in, it will show up on your bill like a $3.99 payment.


----------



## bavaria72

Chris Blount said:


> DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!...


Dang (it!) Chris, you were right on the money! Good call!!!


----------



## catnap1972

Link said:


> Yes I see that too now. I never received any e-mail or letter from them on the price increases.
> 
> Does anyone know what Directv's increase will be. Right now Top 120/locals is $42.99 the same price was Directv's Total Choice Plus/locals--what a joke. Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package.
> 
> I'll be going back to 120 or even 60 now.


I think the safe assumption would be to add a similar increase over there as well ($1 for the lowball package up to $4 for the top end package). I tend to agree with the one or two other posters who said that the 3xx movie channels that Dish throws in with AT180 aren't worth the extra $$. If it weren't for the supers (or if D* added WWOR and WPIX), I'd definitely jump ship.


----------



## garypen

justalurker said:


> Encore MoviePlex is not available to any E* customer at this time (except the usual non-mere-mortals). The individual channels of Encore are in AT180, but MoviePlex is a distinct channel that rotates through the genres - pointless if you have the multi-channel Encore and a perfect fit for AT120.JL


Sorry. My mistake. I thought the term "plex" was referring to the multi Encore channels. I thought I've heard the package termed that way before.

I could do without any of the Encores, including this new "Plex" channel, if I were to get Sundance and FMC. (Although, I currently get Sundance as part of the Sho Pack, I expect I'll be dropping Sho in favor of HBO, once Curb Your Enthusiasm, Six Feet, and/or Sopranos returns. OTOH, I'd miss Huff and Chris Isaak. Can't have both of them AND the HD pack, which will probably be required if they ever come out with a leased HD PVR.)


----------



## garypen

Paul Secic said:


> When I had AT&T Cable back in 1999 they had Sundance, Ovation on the digital tier, which I paid $10 extra.
> 
> Sidebar: Comcast in the SF Bay Area is putting WGN on analog CH 33.


All of the AT180 channels are on Comcast's Digital Plus in the South Bay. Also, Sundance, and a few others not available on Dish at any price.

But, if Dish does add these "bones" to AT120, then it's one down and two to go. (The 3 being: lack of programming; poor local PQ; and no fully functional and affordable/leasable HD DVR.)

Maybe I'll hold out a wee bit longer.


----------



## Mike123abc

You can log in to your dish account, read about the price increase and write a letter to Dish telling them how you feel about the price increase. I do not know how they will respond to the letters (I just did mine a few hours ago). Go to www.dishnetwork.com then log into your account and there is a box to click on about price increases and they have the letter form there.


----------



## Paul Secic

garypen said:


> All of the AT180 channels are on Comcast's Digital Plus in the South Bay. Also, Sundance, and a few others not available on Dish at any price.
> 
> But, if Dish does add these "bones" to AT120, then it's one down and two to go. (The 3 being: lack of programming; poor local PQ; and no fully functional and affordable/leasable HD DVR.)
> 
> Maybe I'll hold out a wee bit longer.


Yea but how much does Comcast charge for Digital Plus whatever that is? Do you pay extra for Plus? I bet they do! You can keep Comcast! They ripped me off, I'll never go back to those low lives!


----------



## lee120

just to let people here know i have talk to a level 1 and 2 and just now a super at directv and as far as they know there is no price increase anytime soon at directv.


----------



## ehren

Yout forgot "duper" at Directv.


----------



## James Long

Paul Secic said:


> Yea but how much does Comcast charge for Digital Plus whatever that is?


The cheapest Comcast Digital package in my town is $54.99, or $59.99 with the audio channels. That is for all digital channels except premiums. That package with ONE movie package is $71.99. And (another inconsistancy with cable) - Comcrap subscribers in my town do *not* get all the channels of AT180.

JL


----------



## James Long

lee120 said:


> just to let people here know i have talk to a level 1 and 2 and just now a super at directv and as far as they know there is no price increase anytime soon at directv.


OK. When the increase comes in March we'll let the supervisors know. :lol:

JL


----------



## Link

justalurker said:


> OK. When the increase comes in March we'll let the supervisors know. :lol:
> 
> JL


If that's the case, that will hurt Dish even more. I don't think however, that Directv has spent as much money as Dish has to need such an increase.

Dish nickels and dimes customers with transaction fees and DVR fees on each 100 hour receiver not per account. It is ridiculous. Now they are going to raise prices on customers because they have made such a mess with the 2 dish local thing.


----------



## Chris Walker

There's NO reason for an increase without new channel additions.. They raised prices $1 last year and didn't add anything, that's acceptable but a $3 increase calls for something new.


----------



## James Long

Link said:


> If that's the case, that will hurt Dish even more. I don't think however, that Directv has spent as much money as Dish has to need such an increase.


That doesn't make sense. If what you claim is such a well managed company as D* raises rates how does it hurt E*? Shouldn't D* keep their prices down? Wouldn't raising their prices just be gouging? 

JL


----------



## pjmrt

justalurker said:



> The cheapest Comcast Digital package in my town is $54.99, or $59.99 with the audio channels. That is for all digital channels except premiums. That package with ONE movie package is $71.99. And (another inconsistancy with cable) - Comcrap subscribers in my town do *not* get all the channels of AT180.
> 
> JL


And it costs extra to get it with a DVR (just now available in my area) ~ $10/mo more and I suspect that is per receiver. Of course, I would also save about $10/mo since I use their high-speed internet. But still priced a little more than Dish. Of course, they may come out with a special offer when the new Dish bills hit the mail next month, who knows.

Still, for $3/mo more - they should throw in something, an extra channel ... something. Maybe this is the fee for the "free" Sirius radio channels we got.


----------



## Link

justalurker said:


> That doesn't make sense. If what you claim is such a well managed company as D* raises rates how does it hurt E*? Shouldn't D* keep their prices down? Wouldn't raising their prices just be gouging?
> 
> JL


I meant it to mean if D* doesn't raise rates at all this season, it will hurt E* even more with a $10 price difference with Top 180 and Total Choice Plus.

I think E* has a lot of nerve raising the packages by $3 and adding nothing new or redoing the packages, and then condemns the cable companies for doing the same thing.

D* has News Corporation and Rupert Murdoch behind them now so they probably aren't in the financial debt that E* is and don't have a need for such ridiculous increases.


----------



## Chris Walker

Link said:


> I meant it to mean if D* doesn't raise rates at all this season, it will hurt E* even more with a $10 price difference with Top 180 and Total Choice Plus.
> 
> I think E* has a lot of nerve raising the packages by $3 and adding nothing new or redoing the packages, and then condemns the cable companies for doing the same thing.
> 
> D* has News Corporation and Rupert Murdoch behind them now so they probably aren't in the financial debt that E* is and don't have a need for such ridiculous increases.


E* isn't in "financial debt", they are just being greedy. There had better be new channel additions is all I am saying. The channel additions are needed for them to compete with digital cable's lineup, and if it takes $3 a month more to get their lineup equal, then that's life.


----------



## Link

Chris Walker said:


> E* isn't in "financial debt", they are just being greedy. There had better be new channel additions is all I am saying. The channel additions are needed for them to compete with digital cable's lineup, and if it takes $3 a month more to get their lineup equal, then that's life.


Well if they would add channels I expect to see like VH1 Country, Soul, and MTV Mega Hits. Digital cable has had these channels for a few years now and it is ridiculous that E* can't negociate with Viacom to carry them. I also expect to get other channels like Oxygen, Ovation, and Fit TV.

The so-called Everything Pack says its the Biggest Value in Entertianment for $77.99. Only a few years ago it was $69.99. Now with a $4 increase its up to $81.99. Its no longer the "Biggest Value" its the biggest waste of money in entertainment.


----------



## Chris Walker

Link said:


> Well if they would add channels I expect to see like VH1 Country, Soul, and MTV Mega Hits. Digital cable has had these channels for a few years now and it is ridiculous that E* can't negociate with Viacom to carry them. I also expect to get other channels like Oxygen, Ovation, and Fit TV.
> 
> The so-called Everything Pack says its the Biggest Value in Entertianment for $77.99. Only a few years ago it was $69.99. Now with a $4 increase its up to $81.99. Its no longer the "Biggest Value" its the biggest waste of money in entertainment.


I agree with you, that's why I think prices are being raised to accomodate the channel additions such as the MTV suite, Ovation, and others so they can be more in line with what digital cable offers. Let's give them a chance to announce the new stuff before we jump down their throats.


----------



## James Long

Chris Walker said:


> There's NO reason for an increase without new channel additions.. They raised prices $1 last year and didn't add anything, that's acceptable but a $3 increase calls for something new.


Every couple of hundred posts these threads tend to repeat themselves ...

In 2003 all E* packages went up $2
In 2004: AT120 w/o locals went up $1 (w/locals 1c), AT180 w/o locals went up $2 (w/locals $1.01), AEP up $3. More than a dollar.

Between the 2003 and 2004 increases:
AT60 added 2 PIs and 4 Shopping Channels, and lost 2 PIs.
AT120 added the same plus two spanish channels.
AT180 added the above plus 3 real channels.

Since the 2004 adjustments:
AT60 added 3 bad channels (HRTV, TVG, Bingo) and 2 PIs, and lost 4 PIs
AT120 added the same plus SiTV and Sirius Music, and lost CNNfn.
AT180 added the above plus NickToons.
(Chicago AT60+ and above subscribers lost FSN Chicago.)
You could say that the 2004 additions were for the 2004 rate increase.
If not, you'll have to credit them to 2005.

Uplinked but not yet added:
Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex, CSTV, CSN Chicago (replaces FSN), and two PIs.
What level each of these will end at is up is a good question, but THESE could be the channel added for the 2005 increase. (If one MUST have channels to justify increases.)

JL


----------



## James Long

Link said:


> I meant it to mean if D* doesn't raise rates at all this season, it will hurt E* even more with a $10 price difference with Top 180 and Total Choice Plus.


I don't believe that D* will hold the line on their rates. It is too tempting to raise them and in a major corporation each division competes with the others with NO division wanting to be dead last in profitability nor a "burden" on the rest of the corporation. Burdens often end up cut off of the corporation.



Chris Walker said:


> I agree with you, that's why I think prices are being raised to accomodate the channel additions such as the MTV suite, Ovation, and others so they can be more in line with what digital cable offers. Let's give them a chance to announce the new stuff before we jump down their throats.


Thanks. And thanks to JohnH and TNGTony's other sources we KNOW something is up on the channel addition side of the equation.

E* isn't just raising rates and doing nothing else. Patience.

JL


----------



## Link

For those E* on a one year contract, do they lock their rate for that year like Directv does when a price increase happens?

A friend of mine got Directv last March and he has continued to get Total Choice Plus/locals for $39.99 all year. The price protection ends in March. He knows it will go to 42.99 but if D* raises prices then it will go up even more.


----------



## BFG

Nope the rate is only locked for annual subscriptions


----------



## Link

BFG said:


> Nope the rate is only locked for annual subscriptions


I should have known E* wouldn't do that for its customers.


----------



## James Long

Link said:


> I should have known E* wouldn't do that for its customers.


Tea are oh double el?

Commit to an annual subscription and you'll get a price lock. Deal?
Besides, there is enough else going on with this adjustment to compensate.

JL


----------



## BFG

did you get hired by dish lurk, pretty defensive are you today


----------



## Mike123abc

If you decide AEP is for you, you can rate lock for a year with annual sub to AT180 and mega movie pack ($407 for the movie pack). This will also cause your DVR fees to be 0 just like with AEP. I did this last year, AT180 and Mega Movie Pack yeilded 0 DVR fee for my 921. The only odd thing is that you do not get NBA TV...


----------



## Tyralak

jeffwtux said:


> I have a VERY DOMB question:
> 
> What exactly is on the Hallmark Channel?
> Lassie, Little House? What?


Greeting cards. LOTS of greeting cards. And figurines.


----------



## Link

Tyralak said:


> Greeting cards. LOTS of greeting cards. And figurines.


LOL Its the channel you watch because they care enough to send you the very best.


----------



## juan ellitinez

justalurker said:


> Every couple of hundred posts these threads tend to repeat themselves ...
> 
> In 2003 all E* packages went up $2
> In 2004: AT120 w/o locals went up $1 (w/locals 1c), AT180 w/o locals went up $2 (w/locals $1.01), AEP up $3. More than a dollar.
> 
> Between the 2003 and 2004 increases:
> AT60 added 2 PIs and 4 Shopping Channels, and lost 2 PIs.
> AT120 added the same plus two spanish channels.
> AT180 added the above plus 3 real channels.
> 
> Since the 2004 adjustments:
> AT60 added 3 bad channels (HRTV, TVG, Bingo) and 2 PIs, and lost 4 PIs
> AT120 added the same plus SiTV and Sirius Music, and lost CNNfn.
> AT180 added the above plus NickToons.
> (Chicago AT60+ and above subscribers lost FSN Chicago.)
> You could say that the 2004 additions were for the 2004 rate increase.
> If not, you'll have to credit them to 2005.
> 
> Uplinked but not yet added:
> Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex, CSTV, CSN Chicago (replaces FSN), and two PIs.
> What level each of these will end at is up is a good question, but THESE could be the channel added for the 2005 increase. (If one MUST have channels to justify increases.)
> 
> JL


You forgot about mun 2 being added to at180(not that anyone cares or even noticed)


----------



## James Long

juan ellitinez said:


> You forgot about mun 2 being added to at180(not that anyone cares or even noticed)


I figure I missed something ... but not much. I probably missed it because it wasn't an uplink addition.

Thanks for point it out. TWO real channels added exclusively to AT180. Woo Hoo! :lol:

JL


----------



## tampa8

Link said:


> Yes I see that too now. I never received any e-mail or letter from them on the price increases.
> 
> Does anyone know what Directv's increase will be. Right now Top 120/locals is $42.99 the same price was Directv's Total Choice Plus/locals--what a joke. Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package.
> 
> I'll be going back to 120 or even 60 now.


I am amazed that I keep seeing this posted over time. How do you come with
"Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package." They are NOT the same.


----------



## ds650

They were the same to me when I thought of jumping to Dish. The only way I could get the Discovery channels that TC+ carries was to get AT180. The thing with that is most of those extras are junk channels. Two horse racing channels??? Come on. More shopping channels? 
They did offer outdoor channel in it though. Now that I've got Tivo I purchase the outdoor channel ala carte to record ATV Sport TV & the such. Dish needs a AT150 with just the good channels of D* TC+ & not the junk of AT180. Sure AT180 has Encore, but who wants to watch love stories & 1950's westerns? Except for not including the Outdoor channel, TC+ IMO is the best package in the industry. Too each their own though.


----------



## hambone

I just called to change my package. I added HD and an 811 lease and dropped Cinemax. She tried to charge me the $5 downgrade fee, and I told her I was dropping Cinemax due to the price increase, which I was, and she said, "oh yeah, you're right, I read that," and she waived the fee. So, be aware that this waiver of the fee is not ingrained in their heads yet, if you downgrade.


----------



## Link

tampa8 said:


> I am amazed that I keep seeing this posted over time. How do you come with
> "Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package." They are NOT the same.


With E* raising the price of Top 180 to $52.99 and D* Total Choice Plus at $42.99 (at least for the time being), then to get equivalent stations on Dish (Hallmark, VH1 Classic, Nick Toons, Boomerang, Biography, SoapNet, GAC, Discovery suite, History International, etc), then yes there is a $10 price difference between the two.

I know E* has the Encore theme crap and a couple TMC channels (not worth $7 more and not $10), but in order to get the same basic channels with E* it is $10 a month higher than Directv.


----------



## jeffwtux

Link said:


> With E* raising the price of Top 180 to $52.99 and D* Total Choice Plus at $42.99 (at least for the time being), then to get equivalent stations on Dish (Hallmark, VH1 Classic, Nick Toons, Boomerang, Biography, SoapNet, GAC, Discovery suite, History International, etc), then yes there is a $10 price difference between the two.
> 
> I know E* has the Encore theme crap and a couple TMC channels (not worth $7 more and not $10), but in order to get the same basic channels with E* it is $10 a month higher than Directv.


The fact is that for $2 more than AT180, you can get TC+ and HBO


----------



## ds650

jeffwtux said:


> The fact is that for $2 more than AT180, you can get TC+ and HBO


wow, never thought of that... good point.


----------



## catnap1972

hambone said:


> I just called to change my package. I added HD and an 811 lease and dropped Cinemax. She tried to charge me the $5 downgrade fee, and I told her I was dropping Cinemax due to the price increase, which I was, and she said, "oh yeah, you're right, I read that," and she waived the fee. So, be aware that this waiver of the fee is not ingrained in their heads yet, if you downgrade.


It wouldn't surprise me if you'll have to ask that the fee be waived...what better way to get some more easy fee income than not offering it automatically.


----------



## garypen

Plus, it only seems to be valid if you're lowering service due to the increase. You apparently must mention that.


----------



## hambone

garypen said:


> Plus, it only seems to be valid if you're lowering service due to the increase. You apparently must mention that.


That is probably true. Thanks to this forum, I specifically told her that.


----------



## Link

jeffwtux said:


> The fact is that for $2 more than AT180, you can get TC+ and HBO


That's a good point. Top 180/locals/HBO on Dish would be $66.98 (52.99 + 13.99). On Directv, Total Choice Plus/locals/HBO would cost $54.99 (42.99 + 12)--a savings of about $12.

It is going to be a joke for the Top 120/locals to cost $42.99 the same price as Total Choice Plus when they don't give you near the channels that TC Plus does.

One of the only good deals, E* has is HBO/Cinemax for $17 while on Directv it'd cost $23 and only give you 3 lousy Cinemax channels. However, neither satellite provider carries the complete Cinemax Suite of channels.


----------



## jrbdmb

Link said:


> One of the only good deals, E* has is HBO/Cinemax for $17 while on Directv it'd cost $23 and only give you 3 lousy Cinemax channels. However, neither satellite provider carries the complete Cinemax Suite of channels.


One thing I just found out yesterday (that you may already know) is that you get HBO/Max for $17 only as part of the Value Pak with AT60/AT120/A180. If you prepay for a year of ATxxx then the HBO/Max combo price is $21.99.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Those price comparisons aren't really fair. AT180 has Encore theme channels and The Movie Channel. To really compare fairly you would need to somehow add these channels to the TC+ package.

It's sort of unfortunate that it is bundled this way. I'd like to see it be restructured somehow so the Encore/TMC can be excluded.


----------



## ds650

Mike Richardson said:


> Those price comparisons aren't really fair. AT180 has Encore theme channels and The Movie Channel. To really compare fairly you would need to somehow add these channels to the TC+ package.
> 
> It's sort of unfortunate that it is bundled this way. I'd like to see it be restructured somehow so the Encore/TMC can be excluded.


That's why I think Dish needs to make available a AT150/160 pkg. Then have a AT150/160 + that would include the encores. Forgot the shopping & horse racing & bingo junk.

I don't care about the encores but I felt like I needed the History Int, & Discoveries I get on TC+ with D*. The AT120 is a far cry from TC+.


----------



## garypen

Mike Richardson said:


> Those price comparisons aren't really fair. AT180 has Encore theme channels and The Movie Channel. To really compare fairly you would need to somehow add these channels to the TC+ package.
> 
> It's sort of unfortunate that it is bundled this way. I'd like to see it be restructured somehow so the Encore/TMC can be excluded.


They're actually pretty fair comparisons. D's TC+/locals/HBO is $54.99. E's AT180/locals will be $52.99. Most of the base channels are the same. (E has less.) The big diff is HBO Pack instead of Encore Theme and two TMC channels. Personally, I prefer HBO.

Let's not forget that TC+ also gives you channels not available from Dish, like _NFL Network, FitTV, Fine Living, Oxygen, Fuel, NBA TV, NewsWorld Int'l, PBS Kids, TV One, and YES_.

In Dish's defense, AT180 does give you extra shopping, horse racing, and Spanish language channels not available on TC+. Not being a Hispanic compulsive gambler into cubic zirconia, it seems to me that TC+ is the better value. But that's me.

Of course, the comparison between TC+/locals w/o HBO to AT120/locals is as fair as one can be as they are both $42.99. In this case, TC+ wins hands down, without a doubt, no argument. Besides the above mentioned channels not available at all on Dish, TC+ gives you a bunch more than AT120, such as _Biography, Bloomberg, Boomerang, CNBC World, Discovery Themes, DIY, Fox Movies, Golf Channel, GAC, Hallmark, History Int'l, Nat'l Geo, Nicktoons, Outdoor Life, Science Channel, and Soapnet. _

If you can find a way to make AT120 seem like a better value than TC+, you go right ahead.


----------



## JBKing

To me, the AT180 / TC+ is a very fair comparison. The TMC and Encore channels are garbage in my opinion. When I had AT180 for a year or more, I bet I watched 3 movies on TMC and 1 on the Encores. Those channels are a waste of bandwith, YMMV of course.

Just think, you can save $10 by going with TC+, or you can pay $2 more and get HBO. E* definitely has to redesign their basic packages. AT180 is a ripoff, IMO. I think an AT170 without TMC and the Encores for around $45.99 would be a much better offering. But then, E* subs can very easily compare AT170 to TC+, and see that for $3 more, they are getting considerably less than with D*.

All assuming no D* increase of course. I wouldn't be surprised to see a $2 hike before long.


----------



## ds650

_Not being a Hispanic compulsive gambler into cubic zirconia _

We all have our weakness's


----------



## Link

Mike Richardson said:


> Those price comparisons aren't really fair. AT180 has Encore theme channels and The Movie Channel. To really compare fairly you would need to somehow add these channels to the TC+ package.
> 
> It's sort of unfortunate that it is bundled this way. I'd like to see it be restructured somehow so the Encore/TMC can be excluded.


They are fair in the fact if you want certain channels with E* like Hallmark, GAC, or Biography, then you have to get AT180 for 52.99. $7 more than TC+ on D* was already quite an increase.

Directv at one time had a package called Total Choice/Encore which gave you those theme channels for about $3 a month--They aren't worth $10 for sure.

How about this--add Starz/Encore to Total Choice Plus for $12 more bringing the price to 54.99 and that is ALL the Starz and ALL Encore for that price or you could choose HBO instead of Starz or even Showtime/TMC and the price would still be $54.99.


----------



## Chris Freeland

These comparesons are not really fair, you guys are comparing E* prices that don't take effect until February 1, the D* price and channel line up are the current prices, who know what price D* will charge in March when they too are likely to have an increase in price too. In addition we do not know if E* is planning on any channel additions or reshuffling in time for the increase or not, their are rumors that some channel additions may be coming which would effect the comparison. We can not make a fair comparison until all the dust settles.


----------



## Jacob S

Dish Network's package does include the Encore Thematic channels which has Westerns, one of the most requested channels in my area. Is that not included in DirecTv's Total Choice Plus Package? If not then you would have to purchase the Starz package to get it.


----------



## DCSholtis

Jacob S said:


> Dish Network's package does include the Encore Thematic channels which has Westerns, one of the most requested channels in my area. Is that not included in DirecTv's Total Choice Plus Package? If not then you would have to purchase the Starz package to get it.


You have to purchase the Starz package to get the Encore theme channels they aren't separated out.


----------



## ross123

catnap1972 said:


> Could've smelled this coming a mile away.
> 
> Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.
> 
> (BTW, any increases on anything else...ie networks, supers, etc.?)


well by now dishnetworks customer getting the letter of price increas....befor they go direct they should wait since dish price went so will direct tv....


----------



## Anonymous

juan ellitinez said:


> You forgot about mun 2 being added to at180(not that anyone cares or even noticed)


Hey, I noticed, they have Futurama in primetime, in Spanish.


----------



## Link

Chris Freeland said:


> These comparesons are not really fair, you guys are comparing E* prices that don't take effect until February 1, the D* price and channel line up are the current prices, who know what price D* will charge in March when they too are likely to have an increase in price too. In addition we do not know if E* is planning on any channel additions or reshuffling in time for the increase or not, their are rumors that some channel additions may be coming which would effect the comparison. We can not make a fair comparison until all the dust settles.


Well $7 more for Top 180 now at 49.99 vs. 42.99 Total Choice Plus is already a big difference. I don't think the subscribers with Top 180 are choosing that package for the Encore theme channels. I never watch a thing on those channels.

The bottomline is to get channels in D* Total Choice Plus then you have to get E* Top 180 and will cost you $7 more, and depending on D* prices, $10 more after February.

If E* is going to reshuffle the packages or add channels, then they should announce it before people start downgrading their packages or switch to Directv or cable.


----------



## hambone

I had some interest in switching to D* because of their HD offering now and in the near future, but there are some WAF problems. Two off the top of my head are no superstations or Style on D*. I have to keep the wife happy, so I'm just hoping E* decides to increase HD support in the next few months. I don't have much faith, however.


----------



## Mike123abc

garypen said:


> In Dish's defense, AT180 does give you extra shopping, horse racing, and Spanish language channels not available on TC+. Not being a Hispanic compulsive gambler into cubic zirconia, it seems to me that TC+ is the better value. But that's me.


I think this should win the best line of the price increase thread...

On another note people keep talking about a possible rate increase from DIRECTV... Do people really expect DIRECTV to raise TC+ by $10? I expect that DIRECTV will still stay lower priced.


----------



## Link

Mike123abc said:


> I think this should win the best line of the price increase thread...
> 
> On another note people keep talking about a possible rate increase from DIRECTV... Do people really expect DIRECTV to raise TC+ by $10? I expect that DIRECTV will still stay lower priced.


I wonder if Directv will even raise price this season? A few of my relatives have been paying $39.99 for TC plus on promotion and their bills will be going up to $42.99 in February anyway.


----------



## jeffwtux

I predict TC+ /locals to go to a neat $44.99. That would still be a far better value than AT120 or AT180. If I had to make a strategic suggestion for DISH(which I'm sure they will never follow) it would be to go down again. Add some channels to the AT60+ package like maybe MSNBC, BET, or TCM.


----------



## hambone

jeffwtux said:


> I predict TC+ /locals to go to a neat $44.99. That would still be a far better value than AT120 or AT180. If I had to make a strategic suggestion for DISH(which I'm sure they will never follow) it would be to go down again. Add some channels to the AT60+ package like maybe MSNBC, BET, or TCM.


TC+locals doesn't include any sports, right? So, if I want my regional fox sports channel, I have to add the Sports Pack for around $10. Isn't that correct? There are other channels D* doesn't carry (at all) that E* does like superstations and Style TV (doesn't matter to me, but it's a deal breaker for my wife). Nobody can say one is a better deal than another. The fact is people have certain tastes and TV viewing needs, so a blanket statement doesn't work.


----------



## JohnH

hambone said:


> TC+locals doesn't include any sports, right? So, if I want my regional fox sports channel, I have to add the Sports Pack for around $10. Isn't that correct? There are other channels D* doesn't carry (at all) that E* does like superstations and Style TV (doesn't matter to me, but it's a deal breaker for my wife). Nobody can say one is a better deal than another. The fact is people have certain tastes and TV viewing needs, so a blanket statement doesn't work.


Oh, but it does include your Regional Sports Network. That would be FSN Southwest and the Alternate.


----------



## hambone

JohnH said:


> Oh, but it does include your Regional Sports Network. That would be FSN Southwest and the Alternate.


Ah, okay. I didn't see that listed anywhere when I was comparing packages. I am ready to jump ship purely because of dedication to HD that D* seems to have and E* does not, but I'll be damned if superstations and Style TV aren't going to keep me from it. WAF has to be kept in check, so no switching for me.


----------



## garypen

I never realized that D didn't have Style. I personally wouldn't watch it even with someone else's eyes. But, it is such a basic and common channel, it didn't occur to me that they wouldn't have it.

For me, it's the Superstations and TVJapan that are the important omissions on D. But, my local Comcast has TVJapan, in addition to an nice little 2-tuner HD DVR, HD Locals, and HD sports.


----------



## Link

garypen said:


> I never realized that D didn't have Style. I personally wouldn't watch it even with someone else's eyes. But, it is such a basic and common channel, it didn't occur to me that they wouldn't have it.
> 
> For me, it's the Superstations and TVJapan that are the important omissions on D. But, my local Comcast has TVJapan, in addition to an nice little 2-tuner HD DVR, HD Locals, and HD sports.


Yes, one of the few advantages of Dish is the Superstation package (WPIX, KTLA, KWGN, WWOR, WSBK), SITV, and the Style Network from E!. I'm not sure why Directv has never added that one. Dish used to have a big advantage in GAC-Great American Country, but FINALLY last fall D* added it.

Channels D* has over E* - Oxygen, TV One, PBS Kids, Daystar, ABC-HD, NBC-HD, Fox HD, Regional WB (in markets without one), more locals per DMA

Channels E* over D* - Superstations, Nick GAS, Style, SITV, Style, Showtime Beyond, TMC Xtra, HBO Comedy, ActionMax, 5StarMax, TNT HD


----------



## Chris Freeland

Link said:


> Well $7 more for Top 180 now at 49.99 vs. 42.99 Total Choice Plus is already a big difference. I don't think the subscribers with Top 180 are choosing that package for the Encore theme channels. I never watch a thing on those channels.
> 
> The bottomline is to get channels in D* Total Choice Plus then you have to get E* Top 180 and will cost you $7 more, and depending on D* prices, $10 more after February.
> 
> If E* is going to reshuffle the packages or add channels, then they should announce it before people start downgrading their packages or switch to Directv or cable.


I have picked AT180 over AT120 for the Encore, TMC and the extra Discovery channels, I choose E* over D* because of the availability of the Supers. I enjoy an occasional western on the Western's channel and I have watched a lot of movies on the True Stories channel, Encore, TMC and TMC extra. Just because you see no value in the Encore and TMC channels does not mean the whole world agrees, I know many who love the Western's channel or would love to get it. Also AT180 has the Outdoor channel and Fox Sports World which at D* you have to get the $12/mo sports package to get, these two channels I do not care about but many do, which makes this package worth a $7/mo premium over TC+ to many.


----------



## hambone

Link said:


> Yes, one of the few advantages of Dish is the Superstation package (WPIX, KTLA, KWGN, WWOR, WSBK), SITV, and the Style Network from E!. I'm not sure why Directv has never added that one. Dish used to have a big advantage in GAC-Great American Country, but FINALLY last fall D* added it.
> 
> Channels D* has over E* - Oxygen, TV One, PBS Kids, Daystar, ABC-HD, NBC-HD, Fox HD, Regional WB (in markets without one), more locals per DMA
> 
> Channels E* over D* - Superstations, Nick GAS, Style, SITV, Style, Showtime Beyond, TMC Xtra, HBO Comedy, ActionMax, 5StarMax, TNT HD


The D* advantage is less to many because you have to either qualify or live in an O&O market to get those network HD stations.

Thanks for this list, BTW.


----------



## tampa8

I'm glad to see some people do see the difference between Top180 and TC+. Much of this is the same old argument that has been hashed over and over again. Don't get me wrong - it is valid to compare packages. But my main gripe is when I start seeing, as I often do, the argument turn to " well yes they have the encore movies, but no one wants that or I never would watch that channel anyway" Maybe YOU don't, but many of us get alot of use watching some of those movie channels. Many of the guys where I work I know watch the Western channel and Mystery channel alot. I know they watch the Outdoor channel (I don't happen to) 

The true bottom line - your likes or dislikes aside - Top180 does give you more/and somewhat different choices than TC+. Only you can decide if the price difference is worth it. But as in this argument two years ago, a year ago, and today, Top180 and TC+ are not the same and to say they equally compare to each other is just plain wrong.

As an aside - I don't know if either horse racing channel is on Direct, but believe it or not that is watched alot by people I know. I have no real interest, but I'm amazed that many people watch it.


----------



## DCSholtis

D* only has TVG thats the only Horse Racing channel they have. BTW it was annouced that they have signed a carriage deal with ESPN2-HD starting tomorrow them and Adelphia cable.


----------



## Jacob S

Some like to get a package with the Westerns plus some other movie channels in addition to the extra extended basic channels such as the Discoveries. Some may choose this package instead of a premium movie package for varietty. You can get the Encore Thematics for $4.99 and you used to be able to get the Discovery Thematics for $4.99 as well.


----------



## Link

Jacob S said:


> Some like to get a package with the Westerns plus some other movie channels in addition to the extra extended basic channels such as the Discoveries. Some may choose this package instead of a premium movie package for varietty. You can get the Encore Thematics for $4.99 and you used to be able to get the Discovery Thematics for $4.99 as well.


For $4.99 on E*? I have never heard of that. This is why they need to do some a la carte for certain channels, and then lower the price of the overall package. Lowering Top 180's price, then making Encore Themes available for $4.99 would be nice compromise and then those who want to watch it can get it.

Top 180 is like if the cell phone service raised my package cost but offered me so many free text messages or calling features I didn't need. Since I don't care about text messages I wouldn't want it or the price hike. 
In some cases, subs don't care about the Encore Themes or extra movie channels but yet are forced to pay for the Top 180 price just to get basic channels that Directv offers in Total Choice Plus.

Yes, Top 180 has some additional things that TC+ does not, but it should for $7-$10 more. But from a marketing standpoint looking at basic channels, Directv is a better value being $42.99 vs. the new $52.99 AT180 price. After all on Directv for $54.99, you can get those Encore theme channels plus all the Starz! channels as well.


----------



## Link

lee120 said:


> espn2-hd to go live on d* 12/6


Do you mean 2/6 or does this mean its already on now?


----------



## lee120

espn2-hd to live on d* 1/6


----------



## Ray_Clum

Knowing that DTV will probably follow E*'s lead on the price increase, I decided to price out Comcast here in Indianapolis.

Currently I've got TC+ with locals, a DTiVo and a 2nd receiver. My base cost, before taxes is $53, here's the comparison.

Company / Base / 1 Prem / 2 Prem / 3 Prem / 4 Prem / 5 Prem (DTV only)
(Prices include a DVR and 2nd digital receiver)

DirecTV / 53 / 65 / 76 / 86 / 94 / 101
Comcast / 81 / 97 / 108 / 113 / 120 

Comcast's pricing does not include a $25 sat buyback offer (for 16 months). I have no idea why everyone in Indy doesn't switch to sat (other than maybe HD locals and they are too lazy to put up an antenna or can't get a good signal)


----------



## Chris Freeland

Link said:


> For $4.99 on E*? I have never heard of that. This is why they need to do some a la carte for certain channels, and then lower the price of the overall package. Lowering Top 180's price, then making Encore Themes available for $4.99 would be nice compromise and then those who want to watch it can get it.
> 
> Top 180 is like if the cell phone service raised my package cost but offered me so many free text messages or calling features I didn't need. Since I don't care about text messages I wouldn't want it or the price hike.
> In some cases, subs don't care about the Encore Themes or extra movie channels but yet are forced to pay for the Top 180 price just to get basic channels that Directv offers in Total Choice Plus.
> 
> Yes, Top 180 has some additional things that TC+ does not, but it should for $7-$10 more. But from a marketing standpoint looking at basic channels, Directv is a better value being $42.99 vs. the new $52.99 AT180 price. After all on Directv for $54.99, you can get those Encore theme channels plus all the Starz! channels as well.


The reason you have never heard of E* offering the Encore Movie Pack as it is called for $4.99/mo is because E* has never advertised it, you have to call and ask for it, it is probably E* best kept secret.

I agree that possibly E* should offer an AT120 Plus or AT150 pack that would be priced between AT120 and AT180 to include AT180 channels mines the Encore's, TMC's and some of the extra sports channels. E* should keep the current AT180 however for those of us that like the TMC and Encore channels and for those who want the extra sports channels. This would give E* 5 basic tiers only $4 - $6 appart to allow for more customer choices without going completely to 'a la carte'.


----------



## Richard King

This morning on CNBC they were laughing at Charlie about the price increase, saying something about "Isn't this the guy who had a Cable Pig program a while back and the same guy who picketed cable companies when they increased their rates? :lol:


----------



## hambone

I have a question about the music channels. I assume these don't take near the bandwidth that a video channel would. Is that correct? I would like to see the music channels cut down a bit to allow for more HD, but without knowing for sure, I would assume it really wouldn't help much because of bandwidth differences.


----------



## JohnH

The music channels are on 119w. If they made enough room there for an HD channel, they would put more SD channels there.


----------



## Tyralak

Richard King said:


> This morning on CNBC they were laughing at Charlie about the price increase, saying something about "Isn't this the guy who had a Cable Pig program a while back and the same guy who picketed cable companies when they increased their rates? :lol:


Oh man, I wish someone would have recorded that. I would have loved to have seen it. :hurah:


----------



## Tyralak

hambone said:


> I have a question about the music channels. I assume these don't take near the bandwidth that a video channel would. Is that correct? I would like to see the music channels cut down a bit to allow for more HD, but without knowing for sure, I would assume it really wouldn't help much because of bandwidth differences.


They don't take anywhere close to the bandwith of even one SD channel. I don't remember how mny music channels equal one SD channel, but it's quite a few. This is probably why there are so many of the damn things on Dish.


----------



## Richard King

> Oh man, I wish someone would have recorded that. I would have loved to have seen it.


I bet if I had recorded it I could have sold tickets here and made my personal fortune. :lol:


----------



## Tyralak

Richard King said:


> I bet if I had recorded it I could have sold tickets here and made my personal fortune. :lol:


I'd pay. :lol:


----------



## James Long

hambone said:


> I have a question about the music channels. I assume these don't take near the bandwidth that a video channel would. Is that correct?


About 1/8th of the space of a normal video channel. HD takes the space of four to six SD channels (depending on how compressed it is).

1 HD = 4-6 Video = 32-48 Audio

As John noted, the audio channels are on 119 and HD on 110 at present, so any space freed by deleting audio would go to standard video channels - not HD. In addition, the way that E* does HD now requires dedicated "HD only" transponders. So a full transponder, 12 Video channels or 96 Audio channels, would have to be deleted.

E* is under contract to have the "Muzak" channels there (in the 900 series). So those are not going away. Sirius is another contract obligation of E*. They would sooner drop shopping channels than drop audio channels.

Most shopping channels are on 110 (where the HD is). But the income from those channels seems to be enough to keep them on the service. It is NICE when people pay E* for carriage instead of E* paying for rights.

JL


----------



## Link

Richard King said:


> This morning on CNBC they were laughing at Charlie about the price increase, saying something about "Isn't this the guy who had a Cable Pig program a while back and the same guy who picketed cable companies when they increased their rates? :lol:


Good. I hope they get a lot of criticism on this price increase. A $1 wouldn't have been so bad, but $3 is ridiculous especially when they have added nothing of VALUE or request to the packages. That is when I switched to Dish when our cable company went up $3 a few years ago. Now I guess I should change to Directv.


----------



## Paul Secic

Link said:


> Yes, one of the few advantages of Dish is the Superstation package (WPIX, KTLA, KWGN, WWOR, WSBK), SITV, and the Style Network from E!. I'm not sure why Directv has never added that one. Dish used to have a big advantage in GAC-Great American Country, but FINALLY last fall D* added it.
> 
> Channels D* has over E* - Oxygen, TV One, PBS Kids, Daystar, ABC-HD, NBC-HD, Fox HD, Regional WB (in markets without one), more locals per DMA
> 
> Channels E* over D* - Superstations, Nick GAS, Style, SITV, Style, Showtime Beyond, TMC Xtra, HBO Comedy, ActionMax, 5StarMax, TNT HD


The Yankees have signed a deal with WWOR to broadcast some games.


----------



## NightRyder

Link said:


> Good. I hope they get a lot of criticism on this price increase. A $1 wouldn't have been so bad, but $3 is ridiculous especially when they have added nothing of VALUE or request to the packages. That is when I switched to Dish when our cable company went up $3 a few years ago. Now I guess I should change to Directv.


Where ya gonna go in March when D* raises their rates? 

NightRyder


----------



## jeffwtux

Paul Secic said:


> The Yankees have signed a deal with WWOR to broadcast some games.


Wow! what is that? Charity? They must have been inpired to do a good deed afer all the giving to the Tsunami relief.


----------



## drjlo

ClaudeR said:


> All I could do is eliminate the locals - BUT NO!  On the 921, you have to sub the locals to get the OTA guide data. Hmmm, why did I dump Adelphia this month? ARGH.


Is this really true about 921? My 811 does not need DISH "locals" sub to receive OTA guide data.


----------



## garypen

Link said:


> Yes, one of the few advantages of Dish is the Superstation package (WPIX, KTLA, KWGN, WWOR, WSBK), SITV, and the Style Network from E!. I'm not sure why Directv has never added that one. Dish used to have a big advantage in GAC-Great American Country, but FINALLY last fall D* added it.
> 
> Channels D* has over E* - Oxygen, TV One, PBS Kids, Daystar, ABC-HD, NBC-HD, Fox HD, Regional WB (in markets without one), more locals per DMA
> 
> Channels E* over D* - Superstations, Nick GAS, Style, SITV, Style, Showtime Beyond, TMC Xtra, HBO Comedy, ActionMax, 5StarMax, TNT HD


D has far more channels over E than those you've mentioned. I've listed them previously in this thread.


----------



## garypen

justalurker said:


> It is NICE when people pay E* for carriage instead of E* paying for rights.
> 
> JL


Nice for Dish.


----------



## Link

NightRyder said:


> Where ya gonna go in March when D* raises their rates?
> 
> NightRyder


I was wondering the same thing. I'll stay with E* just no longer subscribe to the Top 180. I'll learn to live without GAC and Hallmark. I watch mainly the local stations anyway.

Our local news today reported on Dish's $2-$4 price increase on packages but while they were reporting it, they showed video of Directv's equipment and their on screen program guide that was the style on the first receivers that came out in the early 90s! They must have used an old video file for that one not to mention the wrong provider.


----------



## James Long

garypen said:


> justalurker said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is NICE when people pay E* for carriage instead of E* paying for rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice for Dish.
Click to expand...

And they pass the saving on to you! The income exceedes the cost of handling the feeds and contributes to the bottom line. Probably saved us a dollar or two per month having those feeds there - and we can even lock them out and refuse to watch! 

JL


----------



## garypen

justalurker said:


> And they pass the saving on to you!


...in the form of a price increase.


justalurker said:


> The income exceedes the cost of handling the feeds and contributes to the bottom line.


...as does the price increase.


justalurker said:


> Probably saved us a dollar or two per month having those feeds there - and we can even lock them out and refuse to watch!


Maybe they can apply it to the price increase. And...those channels rob bandwidth.


----------



## Jacob S

Looks like Dish Network is finally getting some bad publicity for the price increases. If they were to have these type of price increses two or three straight years it would REALLY add up. Could you see yourself paying $5 more on top of the price increases we are going to get for these packages two years from now? That would be $7 or $8 higher than what they are now. Something has got to give. This is a bit higher than the rate of inflation in which Charlie said that it was not rising that much just a few years back.


----------



## Link

Jacob S said:


> Looks like Dish Network is finally getting some bad publicity for the price increases. If they were to have these type of price increses two or three straight years it would REALLY add up. Could you see yourself paying $5 more on top of the price increases we are going to get for these packages two years from now? That would be $7 or $8 higher than what they are now. Something has got to give. This is a bit higher than the rate of inflation in which Charlie said that it was not rising that much just a few years back.


I know I have sounded like a big tight a** on this board, but I think a $3 increase is just too much even if they were to add a couple of new channels that is still a lot. The one thing E* has going for it is the the Top 60 package which gives most of the good basic channels with locals for approx. $30 a month something you can't get on Directv or cable anymore.

I thought the $49.99 Top 180 wasn't bad but still a little high compared with D* TC+ package. But now its just way overpriced. I'm glad to see the public is not holding back their complaints and criticisms of these increases.


----------



## Jacob S

I bet half to two-thirds of this price increase is pure profit for Dish Network. They did say that the new legislation dealing with the one-dish rule caused this increase as well so everyone has to pay to get those customers from two dishes (61.5) to the SuperDish or Dish500.


----------



## chaddux

Now, all of those people who went to DirecTV because they were mad about the price increase will get a nice little surprise, as DirecTV has confirmed its own impending rate increases.


----------



## Link

chaddux said:


> Now, all of those people who went to DirecTV because they were mad about the price increase will get a nice little surprise, as DirecTV has confirmed its own impending rate increases.


I figured they would increase the price especially with their new expansion plans for HD locals. However, they'll still cost less than Dish.

It's going to be a big increase for some customers who were on a price protection one year deal at $39.99. Instead of raising to $42.99 it will go up even more.


----------



## chaddux

Link said:


> I figured they would increase the price especially with their new expansion plans for HD locals. However, they'll still cost less than Dish.
> 
> It's going to be a big increase for some customers who were on a price protection one year deal at $39.99. Instead of raising to $42.99 it will go up even more.


If you factor in ClubDISH which, if a subscriber is able to take advantage of, greatly skews the price comparison. I acquired my seventh referral this evening, reducing my bill to a pathetic $21/month. Obviously, most probably don't refer anyone but DISH can be an incredible value if you jump all over ClubDISH.


----------



## James Long

garypen said:


> justalurker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably saved us a dollar or two per month having those feeds there - and we can even lock them out and refuse to watch!
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they can apply it to the price increase.
Click to expand...

Maybe they already did. The last shopping channels were added right before the 2004 price adjustments where AT60 was frozen and AT120 w/locals only raised a penny.



San Fransisco Chronicle said:


> DirecTV spokesman Robert Mercer would not say how much rates would rise, but said the company would make an announcement sometime in the next three months. "Counting a rate hike that we put in place in March, we've had only four price increases in the 10 years that we've been in business," Mercer said.


Two of those increases have been in the past two years. D* subscribers are paying 15.6% more this month for TC w/o locals than they did in January 2003.

E* customers w/o locals are paying 8.7% more for AT60, 9.4% more for AT120, 9.8% more for AT180, or 6.9% more for AEP than they did in January 2003.

JL


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## Mike D-CO5

Jacob S said:


> I bet half to two-thirds of this price increase is pure profit for Dish Network. They did say that the new legislation dealing with the one-dish rule caused this increase as well so everyone has to pay to get those customers from two dishes (61.5) to the SuperDish or Dish500.


 Exactly, and to pay for the transition to mpeg4 and the swap out of all hd receivers. Notice no mention of a provider forcing Dish to pass on these price increases. Last year Charlie mentioned Viacom and Disney as the reason . Now it is operating cost to keep up with the FCC mandates and the new mpeg4 conversion.:eek2:


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## Jacob S

Also the AT180 having the Outdoor Channel and Outdoor Life Network is another reason why some take this package although one of them is available for $2.00 a month.


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## garypen

justalurker said:


> Two of those increases have been in the past two years. D* subscribers are paying 15.6% more this month for TC w/o locals than they did in January 2003.
> 
> E* customers w/o locals are paying 8.7% more for AT60, 9.4% more for AT120, 9.8% more for AT180, or 6.9% more for AEP than they did in January 2003.
> 
> JL


Comparing the actual prices for the actual products is a far more accurate comparison than the monetary percentage of their price increases.

While D may have raised their prices at a higher percentage over the past two years than E, the bottom line is that D's TC+ offers far more than E's AT120 at the same $42.99/month. Quite frankly, there's no comparison between the two packages.

The advantage E has is with some of the extra cost channels like Superstations and various Internationals, plus the availibility of a cheaper basic package. Otherwise, almost every advantage goes to D.

The denial is getting a little thick around here ever since E announced the rate increases.


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## jeffwtux

garypen said:


> Comparing the actual prices for the actual products is a far more accurate comparison than the monetary percentage of their price increases.
> 
> While D may have raised their prices at a higher percentage over the past two years than E, the bottom line is that D's TC+ offers far more than E's AT120 at the same $42.99/month. Quite frankly, there's no comparison between the two packages.
> 
> The advantage E has is with some of the extra cost channels like Superstations and various Internationals, plus the availibility of a cheaper basic package. Otherwise, almost every advantage goes to D.
> 
> The denial is getting a little thick around here ever since E announced the rate increases.


No denial from this 5 year Dish subscriber. I'm the one who brought up that comparison. Will DirecTV raise TC+? Yes, but probably only by $2 not $3. That will mean for $2 more than AT120 you will get like 25 more stations with TC+, no contest. Dish has to add station to AT120 to justify a $3 increase.


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## James Long

garypen said:


> Comparing the actual prices for the actual products is a far more accurate comparison than the monetary percentage of their price increases.


Any comparison that makes your side win is the most accurate. Welcome to politics! 

E* people have accepted the content difference between D* and E*.
D* people need to accept the price increases at D*, past and future.
Those trying to decide need to see less emotion and more thought.

JL


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## Paul Secic

jeffwtux said:


> No denial from this 5 year Dish subscriber. I'm the one who brought up that comparison. Will DirecTV raise TC+? Yes, but probably only by $2 not $3. That will mean for $2 more than AT120 you will get like 25 more stations with TC+, no contest. Dish has to add station to AT120 to justify a $3 increase.


I just looked at Comcast's lineup and they just air Spike TV from 9AM to 3PM. Strange being most men arn't home. I didn't see Nick Toons either.


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## NewsJunkie2005

Do you mean 9 a.m. to 3 a.m.?


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## Stewart Vernon

I haven't done a direct apples to apples comparison of Dish vs Cable vs DirectTV in a while. Last time I did, DirectTV and Dish were about the same, and both were cheaper than Cable for comparative stuff I was getting.

Rates go up all the time. Since having Dish for a few years now I think my rates have gone up twice and gone down once (because of a package deal I had at the time that they gave a discount for). My cable bill never went down, that I know for sure.

I'd love to get new channels with every price increase... but prices on almost everything else go up eventually, so I've come to expect it. I'd love to never pay more for Dish, but to be completely fair... the company is a company that needs to make money or they'd go under and then we'd all be looking for a new provider... so if I can afford it and I feel it is still worth the money, then I don't complain too much.


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## Paul Secic

NewsJunkie2005 said:


> Do you mean 9 a.m. to 3 a.m.?


No,


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## Link

I really don't get it. If Directv had a good marketing research team, they'd know adding superstations would get them a huge number of subscribers away from Dish.

I think one plus is that Directv is getting their own DVR unit. If they get away from Tivo, they might gain more customers that way too.


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## fiasco

Link said:


> I really don't get it. If Directv had a good marketing research team, they'd know adding superstations would get them a huge number of subscribers away from Dish.
> 
> I think one plus is that Directv is getting their own DVR unit. If they get away from Tivo, they might gain more customers that way too.


Why would DirecTV using their own DVR unit be an improvement over using Tivo?

All the dish network DVR's suck. I have a 522 and it's awfull compared to a Tivo. It's to bad DTV is so unscrupulous or I'd switch.


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## Link

fiasco said:


> Why would DirecTV using their own DVR unit be an improvement over using Tivo?
> 
> All the dish network DVR's suck. I have a 522 and it's awfull compared to a Tivo. It's to bad DTV is so unscrupulous or I'd switch.


Some don't like the Tivo so that's why they don't switch to Directv. By Directv having two different DVR options it might help them gain subscribers.

Even tough Tivo has name based recording, I like my 721 receiver just as well. The guide and menus are a lot faster on the 721 than on the Tivo. Plus my dad hates having to connect the Tivo to a phone line a few times a year, that call reminder is so annoying.


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## Jacob S

I also love how quick the 721 is and I dont have the reboot issues I had with it when that receiver first came out. Its one of the best units Dish Network has ever come out with. i also really like the user interface.


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## shilton

Richard King said:


> This morning on CNBC they were laughing at Charlie about the price increase, saying something about "Isn't this the guy who had a Cable Pig program a while back and the same guy who picketed cable companies when they increased their rates? :lol:


My thoughts exactly! How in the world can you come off of a huge campaign slamming your competitors for rising rates and then announce rate hikes yourself?

I'd like to see the cable companies (or Rupert) strike back with some sort of retaliatory ads. Sure Rupert is raising rates too, but his paks are still cheaper. 
Dish used to be the price leader, but Charlie is losing credability on his "we watch the bottom line" speeches with hike after hike!


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## Link

shilton said:


> My thoughts exactly! How in the world can you come off of a huge campaign slamming your competitors for rising rates and then announce rate hikes yourself?
> 
> I'd like to see the cable companies (or Rupert) strike back with some sort of retaliatory ads. Sure Rupert is raising rates too, but his paks are still cheaper.
> Dish used to be the price leader, but Charlie is losing credability on his "we watch the bottom line" speeches with hike after hike!


Dish is only a price leader on two things. The Top 60 package for $31.99 with locals is still not a bad value with all the good basics like Nick, Disney, Sci-Fi, TV Land, USA, TBS, TNT, CMT, VH1, MTV, ESPN, ESPN 2, etc. They should add a few extras though like Fox News. You can't normally get a cable package for that price with those channels plus local stations.
The other thing Dish has that is not bad is the HBO/Cinemax combo pack for $17. Directv's cost for both services is $23 and only includes 3 lousy Cinemax channels.

But the Top 120, Top 180, and So-Called Everything Pack are all overpriced now with nothing new to any of the packages.


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## DoyleS

I just had one of those "I can't believe I am talking to a human" calls with Mary Operator 1TM at Dish. I pay annually for my Dish 180 package ($495/yr which works out to $41.25/mo) No complaints there. And I pay 109.89/yr for Annual HD which is $9.15/mo. Both of these I am happy about and since it renews in January I always get in before the next price increase. However, Dish offers locals on there main page for $5 over any of the package costs but that is only available if you pay monthly, if you pay your package bill annually you pay $5.99/mo for locals and they have no way to give you the $5/mo price that those that pay monthly get. Some sort of mumbo jumbo about it is built into the package plan. It is still better than Comcast rates although Comcast really has improved their HD offerings and has a $10/mo HD recorder that is definitely going to slow the movement to Satellite for a lot of people. 

..Doyle


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## ClaudeR

Link said:


> Dish is only a price leader on two things. The Top 60 package for $31.99 with locals is still not a bad value with all the good basics like Nick, Disney, Sci-Fi, TV Land, USA, TBS, TNT, CMT, VH1, MTV, ESPN, ESPN 2, etc. They should add a few extras though like Fox News. You can't normally get a cable package for that price with those channels plus local stations.
> The other thing Dish has that is not bad is the HBO/Cinemax combo pack for $17. Directv's cost for both services is $23 and only includes 3 lousy Cinemax channels.
> 
> But the Top 120, Top 180, and So-Called Everything Pack are all overpriced now with nothing new to any of the packages.


Agreed! I joined DirecTV in 98 when they still had a Select Choice for $19.99. When they dropped SCI FI and a couple others from my grandfathered package - I left them. Now have Dish for the same reason. I don't need much TV, just the basics. Wish they could come out with a "non-sports" package to keep it cheap.


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## red hazard

With the AEP going up another $4.00 MRC, I intend to downgrade to the Top 120 plus 2 or 3 premiums. HBO/ST add-ons are currently is $22.99 and HBO/Strz/ST is $29.99. Are these prices increasing too in addition to the TOP-*** increases. If so, how much??


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## BobMurdoch

No the movie packages as well as any latino packages are unaffected. Just be aware that if you have a PVR and downgrade from AEP, you will begin being charged $5 per PVR. Also, if you are planning on getting 3 movie packages, you are back up to AEP numbers (or within $1-2 a month). It is only the AT/AEP packages and RAI (the Italian Channel) for some reason.


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## Jacob S

The premiums are not going up just the AT packages (AT60=$2, AT120=$3, AT180=$3, AEP=$4). Those packages with the premiums tied together to those packages are going up by that dollar amount.


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## Link

I think Dish is going to see a lot of downgrades over this price increase and will find they were better off before they raised it. At least then they had more money coming in with more people subscribing to higher packages.


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## Jacob S

I think that the increase costs for programming were half to a third of that extra $2-4 that they are trying to impose figuring in a raised profit. If they would have only raised it the amount that they were getting charged extra then it probably would have been around $1. Some of the increase is probably going to be reserved for these dish and hardware upgrades. They can make up for some of that by getting extra for the HD packages but many will just drop another package to get those HD packages. I can see programming prices increases with the rollout of HD as they can see getting a premium for the HD services especially if nobody else is offering it.


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## ClaudeR

Link said:


> I think Dish is going to see a lot of downgrades over this price increase and will find they were better off before they raised it. At least then they had more money coming in with more people subscribing to higher packages.


I agree, and I will fight the $5 fee for downgrade. THAT would be more useful than a PPV coupon. Fargin bastages.


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## James Long

Link said:


> I think Dish is going to see a lot of downgrades over this price increase and will find they were better off before they raised it. At least then they had more money coming in with more people subscribing to higher packages.


And more money going out. Those movie channels and AT180 channels get paid per subscriber. Everyone who downgrades saves E* some money (although not 100% of what they are losing in rates).

JL


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## Jacob S

It may save E* some money for every subscriber that drops the package but it costs them more than it saves them since they are not able to make a profit on that cost.


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## bavaria72

ClaudeR said:


> I agree, and I will fight the $5 fee for downgrade. THAT would be more useful than a PPV coupon. Fargin bastages.


It will be interesting to see how E* handles the downgrades. I wonder if you can get them to waive the fee if you are downgrading due to the price increase? Legal, of course, they don't have to. They have made it very clear that anything you downgrade - $5 please.


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## Link

bavaria72 said:


> It will be interesting to see how E* handles the downgrades. I wonder if you can get them to waive the fee if you are downgrading due to the price increase? Legal, of course, they don't have to. They have made it very clear that anything you downgrade - $5 please.


Due to the price increases, they are not supposed to charge you the $5 downgrade fee. If they do, tell them you are downgrading due to the price increase.


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## catnap1972

Link said:


> Due to the price increases, they are not supposed to charge you the $5 downgrade fee. If they do, tell them you are downgrading due to the price increase.


Make sure you stipulate UP FRONT that you're downgrading because of the increase (and tell the CSR to ask a supervisor if necessary). In my experience, they're probably not going to offer it unless you ask for it.


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## Cholly

Well, the cat's out of the bag. On the Directv forum, Chris Blount has posted news of the D* price increase. Average of 4%, based on and average subscription rate of $63. Total Choice goes from $39.99 to $41.99, Total Choice Plus from $42.99 to $45.99 and Total Choice Premier from $90.99 to $93.99. No increase for premium packages, as with E*. See Chris' post for further details.


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## jeffwtux

Cholly said:


> Well, the cat's out of the bag. On the Directv forum, Chris Blount has posted news of the D* price increase. Average of 4%, based on and average subscription rate of $63. Total Choice goes from $39.99 to $41.99, Total Choice Plus from $42.99 to $45.99 and Total Choice Premier from $90.99 to $93.99. No increase for premium packages, as with E*. See Chris' post for further details.


So, TC will be $1 less than AT120 but have more channels. E* will definitely hear about this.


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## jrbdmb

I wish Dish would make the Encore / TMC channels optional in AT180; there are multiple channels in AT180 I like, but would just as soon take a $5/mo. cut and skip these low rent movie channels.


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## olgeezer

That's why many people keep AT180, and is a major reson not to switch services


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## boylehome

Our local news paper is reporting that Charter cable is increasing thier fees.


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## jrbdmb

I guess I'm a bit late to the party on this, but I just dropped HBO and dropped from AT180 to AT120 as a (mild) protest against the rate hike. 

I'd been thinking about dropping AT180 for a while, the few channels my family likes (Fox Sports World, National Geographic, SoapNet for the wife, Boomerang for the kids) really isn't worth $10/mo extra.


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## cdoyle

Hi,
I don't have dish yet, about to signup for the AT180 pkg. Then I saw this thread saying they are raising the prices as of yesterday.

But I just went to Dish's website, and now the AT180 pkg is listed as $47.99?
that's $2 less then it was a couple days ago? Am I missing something?


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## Jacob S

It is not $2 less. You are looking at the new price of AT180 without locals compared to the old price of AT180 without locals. 

AT180 without locals old price $44.99 (A) ---> $47.99 (B) new price (+$3.00)
AT180 with locals old price $49.99 (C) ---> $52.99 (D) new price (+$3.00)

Your comparing C (current price) with B (old price).


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## ehren

boylehome said:


> Our local news paper is reporting that Charter cable is increasing thier fees.


I have been checking newspapers and I have found nothing yet. Would you be able to post the info? Thanks


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## Jarrett76

jrbdmb said:


> I guess I'm a bit late to the party on this, but I just dropped HBO and dropped from AT180 to AT120 as a (mild) protest against the rate hike.
> 
> I'd been thinking about dropping AT180 for a while, the few channels my family likes (Fox Sports World, National Geographic, SoapNet for the wife, Boomerang for the kids) really isn't worth $10/mo extra.


I dropped the locals and put up the old antenna....heck the picture is better. I also dropped the $5.99 sports pack, and dropped down to 120 from 180. So I will be saving about $21.00 monthly. The only shows on 180 I watch is dallas and MASH.....both are available on dvd anyway.


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## garypen

It seems like the price hike has the old one step forward, two steps back affect on Dish's revenue from a number of customers. 
$3 forward... $5, $10, $20 back.


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## Lyle_JP

I used to have AT120+Locals and HBO+Starz, but dropped Starz and added Cinemax for the 120+HBO+Cinemax+Locals discount bundle. I've saved a few bucks and now have more softcore porn than I know what to do with. :eek2:


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## Jacob S

I dropped my programming back about $15-25 this past year.


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## cdoyle

Jacob S said:


> It is not $2 less. You are looking at the new price of AT180 without locals compared to the old price of AT180 without locals.
> 
> AT180 without locals old price $44.99 (A) ---> $47.99 (B) new price (+$3.00)
> AT180 with locals old price $49.99 (C) ---> $52.99 (D) new price (+$3.00)
> 
> Your comparing C (current price) with B (old price).


ah I see, I didn't realize they were now showing it without locals.

it used to say on the main AT180 page 49.99 and that included the locals. Now the price listing doesn't include the locals. Pretty sneaky

That stinks...

maybe I'll just get the AT120 then.


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## scottchez

I just got my big Direct TV Price increase today. A Double increase as when I signed up a year ago I was grandfathered for last years price increase. Please my Free HDTV package ended and my free Showtime also ended, 

Im talking a $25 increase at Direct TV. Dish is not that bad after all.


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