# Is all RG6 the same?



## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

Is all RG6 about the same? The directions that came with my D1000 say:

"The cable must be rated for 950 to 2150 Mhz. If you are unsure check the container it came in, or talk to your retailer"

I headed out to Lows, and found "Satellite" RG6 that was not rated at all. I also found some Zenith brand cable that says "5Mhz to 2300 Mhz". Then I headed to Home Depot. My Home Depot had RG6 that was called "Satellite" RG6, but was not rated. So, what is the deal here? Quad shield or normal? Am I being to anal about all of this? Can I just buy any 'ol RG6? 

And my next question -

Compression connectors vs crimped? Am I going over the edge?? Any real world difference? My cable runs should be less than 100 ft. I am going for HD as well as SD if it makes any difference.

Advice appreciated.

mraroid


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

mraroid said:


> Is all RG6 about the same? The directions that came with my D1000 say:
> 
> "The cable must be rated for 950 to 2150 Mhz. If you are unsure check the container it came in, or talk to your retailer"
> 
> ...


I personally would not buy the cable if it didn't specify up to around 2300 on the cable. The others probably are ok but no way to tell until you install and have problems. I'd rather install the cable only once, even if it did cost a little more.

For the connectors, I prefer the compression ones as they are much more reliable in the long run. The crimp connectors in a non-stress situation will work just fine but may eventually cause problems that are hard to analyze.

These are just my opinions gained from a few annoying experiences.


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## jarvantgroup (Mar 24, 2006)

I've used the HD and Lowe's RG6 for several installs and have never had a problem with callbacks. Quad shield is overkill, especially considering the length of runs you have at your home. Definitely use compression fittings (you'll reduce your chances of having problems in the future with loose connections) :eek2:


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

Grandude said:


> I personally would not buy the cable if it didn't specify up to around 2300 on the cable. The others probably are ok but no way to tell until you install and have problems. I'd rather install the cable only once, even if it did cost a little more.
> 
> For the connectors, I prefer the compression ones as they are much more reliable in the long run. The crimp connectors in a non-stress situation will work just fine but may eventually cause problems that are hard to analyze.
> 
> These are just my opinions gained from a few annoying experiences.


Quad shield isnt a must (although I bought it) but I would make sure cable is seep tested to atleast 2300. Mine is tested to 3000 got it at lowes 250' for 44.99 no problems with HD PQ Also bought the compression conectors and a 50pk of connectors and rewired the whole house. noticiable improvement.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

> The cable must be rated for 950 to 2150 Mhz


From what I have learned from the Dish FSM that restrung my house with the correct coax you MUST have a high Mhz coax for HD.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Steve H said:


> From what I have learned from the Dish FSM that restrung my house with the correct coax you MUST have a high Mhz coax for HD.


As long as the RG-6 handles thru 2150 it will be fine. If it is swept tested and passes thru around 2200 mhz it will work fine. HD comes down on the same freq band as all DBS services. He was just thrown in the sales pitch.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Yup. 2 gigahertz is HIGH megahertz.


Bob


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

Just make sure it has a solid copper center conductor and 60% braid.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

or, if you want to spend some real money, go RG11...


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I use Belden 1694A and Snap-N-Seal connectors. Good quality stuff.


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## ratoren (Dec 28, 2005)

All RG-6 from the big-box hardware stores is the same. It's the same scenario as Monster Cable - you could pay $100 for specially rated Monster Cable, but the cheap generic stufff will work just as well, and will cost about 10% of the Monster "crap". Buy the cheapest RG-6 you can find.

I personally like the screw-on fittings - they are the easiest to use, don't require extra tools, stay very tight, and don't shake loose (like the crimp-on fittings can). Fyi, there are special screw-on fittings for RG-6. 

One thing I do recommend is a real coax cutter - it is worth the extra bucks, as its much easier and neater than using a regular blade for cutting the two insulation cores.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

alebowgm said:


> or, if you want to spend some real money, go RG11...


There is no reason to use RG-11. It is larger but doesn't carry the hi freq any better. In fact most RG-11 is not swept tested for the signal that is used for the sat systems. It also is harder to work and takes special connectors to work with the F- connectors used in sat installations.


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## dartonviper (Mar 10, 2004)

ratoren said:


> All RG-6 from the big-box hardware stores is the same. It's the same scenario as Monster Cable - you could pay $100 for specially rated Monster Cable, but the cheap generic stufff will work just as well, and will cost about 10% of the Monster "crap". Buy the cheapest RG-6 you can find.
> 
> I personally like the screw-on fittings - they are the easiest to use, don't require extra tools, stay very tight, and don't shake loose (like the crimp-on fittings can). Fyi, there are special screw-on fittings for RG-6.
> 
> One thing I do recommend is a real coax cutter - it is worth the extra bucks, as its much easier and neater than using a regular blade for cutting the two insulation cores.


Now, everything said here will set you up for a service call within the next couple of years. I can almost guarantee that. 
Solid copper and compression fittings are the only way to go.


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## markyd21 (Mar 28, 2006)

mraroid said:


> Is all RG6 about the same? The directions that came with my D1000 say:
> 
> "The cable must be rated for 950 to 2150 Mhz. If you are unsure check the container it came in, or talk to your retailer"
> 
> ...


Dont worry about Quad cable, then you have to have quad fittings....pain.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

Make sure it is SOLID copper core and yes Quad Sheild w/Compression fittings.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Steve H said:


> From what I have learned from the Dish FSM that restrung my house with the correct coax you MUST have a high Mhz coax for HD.


Replace "HD" with "DishPro" and he may be on to something.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

A simple question, with no simple accurate answer.

Simple answer, buy cable you know has been tested as suitable for your use.

The issue is how much loss, rated in dbs, in the cable. Simply, the higher in frequency, on a fixed length of cable, the greater the loss.

When a cable is "swept", the loss is measured (per some unit of length, like 100 feet).

Relevant accurate info:

http://www.timesmicrowave.com/wireless/index.shtml

http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl


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## Rop (May 29, 2005)

Not sure why so many here keep insisting on solid copper core coax, but there is no electrical difference between copper plated steel core vs. solid copper core at satellite frequencies. They behave exactly the same, and if all the other factors are the same they'd have exactly the same loss.

For frequencies over a MHz or so the signal tends to only use a very thin layer at the outside of the conductor. This is called skin effect, and for 1500 MHz that 'skin' is only a few micro-meters thick! That means the signal doesn't care or even see what's underneath that few micrometers, and steel, wood, brick or even a hollow core would work just the same. All that counts is the surface area of the outside of the core (OK, you also need those few micrometers underneath).

Solid copper core coax makes a difference for base-band signals, those that start at 0 MHz. Because DC and low frequencies do use all of the core. So, for composite or component video, digital audio and such it does make a difference and one should use solid copper core coax.

Now, satellite systems use the coax core to feed the switch and LNBs, so you need a reasonable conductor for this. Steel core coax will do this just fine for the lengths involved here.

The other fallacy that's often repeated is that quad-shield is better than regular (dual shield) coax. This is not at all the case. There's good quad-shield that's better than certain regular coax, there's bad quad-shield, and there's regular coax that's better (sometimes much better) than just about any quad-shield coax. For example, Belden's 1694A would beat most quad-shield, and it's a dual-shield coax... 

-Rob-


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Ditto what Rob said. As for twist on connectors, you won't find any professional installations done with those so stay away from them, they don't last.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

Rop said:


> Not sure why so many here keep insisting on solid copper core coax, but there is no electrical difference between copper plated steel core vs. solid copper core at satellite frequencies. They behave exactly the same, and if all the other factors are the same they'd have exactly the same loss.
> 
> For frequencies over a MHz or so the signal tends to only use a very thin layer at the outside of the conductor. This is called skin effect, and for 1500 MHz that 'skin' is only a few micro-meters thick! That means the signal doesn't care or even see what's underneath that few micrometers, and steel, wood, brick or even a hollow core would work just the same. All that counts is the surface area of the outside of the core (OK, you also need those few micrometers underneath).
> 
> ...


Solid copper core only makes a difference, when it comes to long cable runs. This, ONLY, because it is less likely to affect a voltage drop that thwarts lnb switching.

Solid copper core is seldom, if ever used by cable companies, since it kinks easy and is more ductile. Being more ductile, it is more likely to stretch and even break internally when pulled or used in aerial drops.

78% tri-shield has the same nearly identical parameters as quad shield, and is the NOW standard for cable companies. All connectror that work for standard shield will work with tri-shield. Tri-shield is basically the same as quad shielded, but the extra shield wires have been moved inside the outer shield. The outer diameter has been reduces to the same diameter as standard shielded rg6.

Quad shielded will only be used for those who require to meet specification to comply with a legal regulation.

As much as I dislike the cable companies, they install GOOD cable, since they have to and are responsible for maintaining it. The quality of the cable sold to and used by satellite installers, is designed to meet minimal requirements, since it needs only to perform for just a few years or just beyond the usual warranty period.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Ditto for the statement on copper core cable. The main reason that is used is the fact that salesmen push it as better. It is like the line given for monster cable being better. I used to work for a company that always pushed sale of such cable. When we would go out to do the installs we would really laugh at how much of the stuff was sold. There is very little advantage to expensive cable. We knew it was profit that the salesman was going for. There is a very high mark up on the expensive cable. In the 950 to 2150 mhz range copper will not help at all nothing above about 500 mhz travels on the inner layer of a cable. Steel coated with copper will be better as long as it isn't nicked when installing the connector. If it is nicked then it will rust.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The electrical current carried by a wire is on the surface, so electrically the steel coated copper is the same as solid copper.


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## ratoren (Dec 28, 2005)

Its interesting to see the answers from the folks that know real high school/college electronics (all RG-6 cable will work for the use and run lengths needed) vs. the people that think the more you pay the better (installers & retailers).

By the way, the reason that screw-on fittings are not used by installers is that they cost about 10x as much as crimped fittings. However, without the proper tools (i.e., high quality coax plyers costing upwards of $75), crimped fittings will not stay. Screw-on fittings are the way to go, and are more secure than compression fittings (try-em and you'll see).

Remember, it is the job of installers/retailers/contractors to make you believe that you are reliant upon their "specialized" services, and they'll tell you almost anything to spend your money...


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

<--- Former installer/retailer here who has moved on to other things with a degree in electronics technology. While I have never been an advocate of QS in DBS installs, there is no way that I would use twist on connectors.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

I have a degree in broadcast technology. Not sure I would use twist on's either. They tended to cut up the outside conductor so it is barely making contact. It also nicks the outside of the wire that it is contacting so if there is any moisture getting into it they will either rust or corrode. The only time that I have used them is indoors.


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## dartonviper (Mar 10, 2004)

if there is any chance of fittings being outside or in a damp area copper clad will rust out faster. Many of my service calls are from homeowners putting fittings outside and they rust out.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

> As long as the RG-6 handles thru 2150 it will be fine. If it is swept tested and passes thru around 2200 mhz it will work fine. HD comes down on the same freq band as all DBS services. He was just thrown in the sales pitch


My replacement was a no charge deal so I don't think it was a sales pitch.


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## ctriopelle (Apr 10, 2006)

Wow, you guys are WAAAAAY into overkill. For all the gloom and doom talked about here, I wired my whole house with Home Depot RG6 with twist on connectors about 5 years ago and have yet to have one bit of trouble with anything. While doing 50 or so twist connections chewed up my fingers temporarily, I didnt need to invest big $$ in special tools leaving more when it was all said and done for the toys! As for PQ goes, I find it hard to believe this really has any effect, as the wire only sends the sat/antenna signal, as long as it's good enough for the box to decode, the box does all the work.

While I'm sure the perfectionists can argue my setup isn't "optimal", it definitely gets the job done as its supposed to, and I'm confident that it will for years to come...


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## jarvantgroup (Mar 24, 2006)

ratoren said:


> Its interesting to see the answers from the folks that know real high school/college electronics (all RG-6 cable will work for the use and run lengths needed) vs. the people that think the more you pay the better (installers & retailers).
> 
> By the way, the reason that screw-on fittings are not used by installers is that they cost about 10x as much as crimped fittings. However, without the proper tools (i.e., high quality coax plyers costing upwards of $75), crimped fittings will not stay. Screw-on fittings are the way to go, and are more secure than compression fittings (try-em and you'll see).
> 
> Remember, it is the job of installers/retailers/contractors to make you believe that you are reliant upon their "specialized" services, and they'll tell you almost anything to spend your money...


Old Chinese philosopher says many twist-on fittings make for raw thumbs!!!


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

Wow! I did not want to start a RG6 war with my question. From all the posts here, I suspect that if I buy RG6 rated at or above DN's requirement, I will be OK. The worst thing I can do, is over pay, but I probably won't degrade my install. 

Thanks all. I have learned more than I ever thought I would with this question of mine.

mraroid


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> The electrical current carried by a wire is on the surface, so electrically the steel coated copper is the same as solid copper.


Sorry, but this is not quite true. As frequency increases, the skin effect also increases so for everything in the megahertz range you are dead on. But, notice every house is wired with solid copper conductors (aside from a bit of aluminum in the 60s and 70s) because at 100hz. down to DC conduction is very important and skin effect is non-existent. If all you need to carry is the block down converted satellite signals, then yeah, all you need is copper coated steel.

But as LNBs need more power to switch and amplify KU and now KA, the current carrying capacity of true copper is needed for longer runs--above 75' or so I'm guessing.

Cheers,
Tom


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