# Bad news if you want a Vip 622



## rollua1

They are going to be harder to find than an Xbox 360.


We currently ran into some technical problems with our 622's and will be very limited this month for our customers. That promotion may be pushed into next month.


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## tomcrown1

Is this the reason that Charlie broke his word. On the chat he seemed to state that one can call in and get the VIP622 for $299 lease as of the date of the chat. A call to dish and the CSR stating it will be 2/1/06; will this news mean that when we call on 2/1/06 we will be told that the actual date is 4/1/06???


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## Cokeswigga

I also wonder for how long will this promotion be available


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## Cokeswigga

rollua1 said:


> We currently ran into some technical problems with our 622's


What are technical problems..

Do you mean distribution problems or

problems with the receivers?


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## Ken Green

Cokeswigga said:


> I also wonder for how long will this promotion be available


until they get the receivers back in stock :lol: :lol:


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## James Long

Back?


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## Jeff McClellan

Well it looks to me like, Perfection before Mass Production. I think most cant argue with that. But as far as I have heard, February 1 is a go.


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## James Long

February 1st is "next month".


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## JerryLA

I just noticed a website that states they have the 622's in stock and available now. Have not spoken to anyone there but sent an email to them. As a 921 owner I want some assurance they will "not" be another 921. I'd rather wait and have it work than go through the 921 deal again!


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## harsh

James Long said:


> February 1st is "next month".


It also happens to be next week.


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## harsh

JerryLA said:


> I just noticed a website that states they have the 622's in stock and available now. Have not spoken to anyone there but sent an email to them. As a 921 owner I want some assurance they will "not" be another 921. I'd rather wait and have it work than go through the 921 deal again!


The information that has been assembled indicates that the VIP622 is substantially a 942 with an Ethernet port and an MPEG4 capable decoder. This is not a significant change in hardware nor software; especially if the Ethernet isn't yet enabled.


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## James Long

There is a reason why things are called bleeding edge technology. February 1st is real and real close and I wonder why so many are lining up to be first - gluttons for punishment? No ... someone has to be the Joneses that everyone else has to keep up with. 

I suppose that the best advice would be to wait to find out if there are horror stories or love stories from those who just can't wait to get a ViP-622 in their homes. That doesn't mean that next Tuesday I won't be calling E* to get one.


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## knealy

I called E* to see if I could get on a list for the 622 and they said they'd put me on an email list for notification. They also told me that the $200 rebate for 921 owners would only exist after April 1. If I got it in February then I would never get a rebate. As I understood the CharlieChat, we could get the 622 in February, but have to wait until April to receive the rebate. The guy at E* said, no I would only get the rebate if I got the 622 after April 1. Is this an April Fools joke, or did I get it wrong from the CharlieChat? Don't you get the rebate regardless, and it's just a question of when they're set up to send the the rebates out?


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## James Long

knealy said:


> I called E* to see if I could get on a list for the 622 and they said they'd put me on an email list for notification. They also told me that the $200 rebate for 921 owners would only exist after April 1. If I got it in February then I would never get a rebate. As I understood the CharlieChat, we could get the 622 in February, but have to wait until April to receive the rebate. The guy at E* said, no I would only get the rebate if I got the 622 after April 1. Is this an April Fools joke, or did I get it wrong from the CharlieChat? Don't you get the rebate regardless, and it's just a question of when they're set up to send the the rebates out?


Rewind the Charlie Chat or read the summary posted in the General E* forum and you will find out that Charlie CLEARLY told people to WAIT until April 1st if they wanted the rebate.

They even had a slide entitled "good things come to those who wait" that said WAIT!

DO NOT expect a rebate on deals after April 1st to apply to deals made before April 1st.


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## knealy

Well, I recall that Charlie's partner (can't recall his name at the moment) said something like "so they can save their paperwork and get it after April?" Unfortunately I deleted the CharlieChat so I can't rewind it. Perhaps it's still being broadcast and I can record it again.


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## James Long

After the slide was shown ...
Charlie: "If I'm going to call up in March, I'm going to pay $299. If I wait until April I get it for free and I pay $99 for the install."
Jim: "You save $200 - the total is $99."

WAIT UNTIL APRIL!


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## Jim5506

Email from Echostar HQ:

DishNetwork has discovered some Vip622's (several thousand of them) had a defective chip and had to be recalled.

Availability is expected around the end of February


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## James Long

Real emails from E* HQ of that nature would be confidential, Jim, and I hope that you would not use this forum to breach confidentiality. Thanks.


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## P Smith

Too late JL, the bird is out of a cage.


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## James Long

I wish I could tell you just how far out of tune it is singing. 
Me thinks that someone is ticked at Dish Network and is starting rumors (if you're hearing this from other sources).


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## boylehome

rollua1 said:


> They are going to be harder to find than an Xbox 360.


There is a ring of truth to this. If history proves true, like how things went with the advent of the 921's, there is going to be a waiting period.


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## Stewart Vernon

boylehome said:



> There is a ring of truth to this. If history proves true, like how things went with the advent of the 921's, there is going to be a waiting period.


I don't know that waiting is bad. People often complain about having to wait... but then if everything isn't absolutely perfect when they get it, they complain about that too.

I'd rather wait and have something work right than get it hot and new now while they are still working out the last-minute bugs in the software.


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## kmcnamara

HDMe said:


> I don't know that waiting is bad. People often complain about having to wait... but then if everything isn't absolutely perfect when they get it, they complain about that too.
> 
> I'd rather wait and have something work right than get it hot and new now while they are still working out the last-minute bugs in the software.


Amen. Everyone was griping about delays in the 921 but when it came out it became obvious that it will still several months away (at least) from being ready. I'm still mad about paying $1000 for the worst consumer electronics device I've ever purchased. However, at least with a lease, you wouldn't be out all that money while waiting for the bugs to be fixed.


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## Stewart Vernon

kmcnamara said:


> Amen. Everyone was griping about delays in the 921 but when it came out it became obvious that it will still several months away (at least) from being ready. I'm still mad about paying $1000 for the worst consumer electronics device I've ever purchased. However, at least with a lease, you wouldn't be out all that money while waiting for the bugs to be fixed.


I do feel bad for the 921 folks... based on all the things I've read.

Main thing that kept me from being a 921 customer was that my 6000u was still pretty new at that time, and I'd bought it... so I wasn't looking to spend another $900+ so soon... so I kind of lucked out by default.


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## Rogueone

you realize 622's are available for purshase already? dish has been turning some up already. 

and yeah, shilling out 1g for the 921 with all the problems and features that didn't develop does blow. But, regardless, I have gotten 2 years of HD DVR usage I could not have gotten another way, and I'll still be able to use it in a limited fashion after I get a 622, so when one considers the amount of use and being an early adopter etc., it's not really that bad. 

the question is, how badly did one want to watch HD programming? Did one consider $1000 a fair price at the time? I did, and while there were a couple problems with mine, the blue line issue showed up after 8 or 9 months, mine has rarely missed a show, though it did miss a couple, and I love having been able to watch HD sports for the past 2 years  So, unlike many, I don't feel 'jipped', I feel that while the produc could have been better, it was still the best option available to me and did the basics it needed to, it let me finally get HD all the time on my $3500 investment of a TV


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## tomcrown1

:eek2: Again where a folks getting the VIP622 my local dealer told me after 2/15/06


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## BobMurdoch

Rogueone said:


> you realize 622's are available for purshase already? dish has been turning some up already.
> 
> and yeah, shilling out 1g for the 921 with all the problems and features that didn't develop does blow. But, regardless, I have gotten 2 years of HD DVR usage I could not have gotten another way, and I'll still be able to use it in a limited fashion after I get a 622, so when one considers the amount of use and being an early adopter etc., it's not really that bad.
> 
> the question is, how badly did one want to watch HD programming? Did one consider $1000 a fair price at the time? I did, and while there were a couple problems with mine, the blue line issue showed up after 8 or 9 months, mine has rarely missed a show, though it did miss a couple, and I love having been able to watch HD sports for the past 2 years  So, unlike many, I don't feel 'jipped', I feel that while the produc could have been better, it was still the best option available to me and did the basics it needed to, it let me finally get HD all the time on my $3500 investment of a TV


Wow. You and I feel exactly the same way. I have had a 921 for 2 years (I got mine in January 2004 (Thanks again Richard King for helping me get one early), and although I wouldn't consider myself happy, it hasn't been a disaster either.

Warts and all, an HD PVR has become indispensable to me. I'll be trying to upgrade as soon as I can so I can see the New York LILs and the new HD channels...... (unless they come to their senses and realize that they aren't ready for prime time yet and release the new channels in MPeg2 until they ARE ready to ship new machines en masse)


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## James Long

Rogueone said:


> you realize 622's are available for purshase already? dish has been turning some up already.


The only people who have an active 622 are beta testers. Sorry, but you are misinformed.

One thing to note about the first 622s. There is a lot more to getting them to customers than just throwing them in UPS or FedEx. Since the deal involves the installation of dishes and switches there will be a built in delay as they schedule installs.

As far as yesterdays statement about 'defective chips' ... that isn't information that ANY company would give out days before a product release except in confidence. So it's either confidential (in violation of forum rules) or bad information.


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## rbyers

Rogueone said:


> you realize 622's are available for purshase already? dish has been turning some up already.
> 
> and yeah, shilling out 1g for the 921 with all the problems and features that didn't develop does blow. But, regardless, I have gotten 2 years of HD DVR usage I could not have gotten another way, and I'll still be able to use it in a limited fashion after I get a 622, so when one considers the amount of use and being an early adopter etc., it's not really that bad.
> 
> the question is, how badly did one want to watch HD programming? Did one consider $1000 a fair price at the time? I did, and while there were a couple problems with mine, the blue line issue showed up after 8 or 9 months, mine has rarely missed a show, though it did miss a couple, and I love having been able to watch HD sports for the past 2 years  So, unlike many, I don't feel 'jipped', I feel that while the produc could have been better, it was still the best option available to me and did the basics it needed to, it let me finally get HD all the time on my $3500 investment of a TV


I agree with you and with Bob Murdoch. I can't understand why folks complain about a few hundred bucks to support a $3K to lots more TV display. Doesn't make sense. I figure that I got my monies worth from the 921. I do wish that it had fewer problems, but like you guys, I got a couple of years worth of viewable HDTV out of it. And, for all of it's faults it wasn't dangerous - just annoying.


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## tech_head

They didn't recall defective 921's.
The RF receiver chip for the 921 has heat and solder problems.

hmmmmm.



Jim5506 said:


> Email from Echostar HQ:
> 
> DishNetwork has discovered some Vip622's (several thousand of them) had a defective chip and had to be recalled.
> 
> Availability is expected around the end of February


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## dpd146

So are the 622's going to be available or not?


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## Jeff McClellan

dpd146 said:


> So are the 622's going to be available or not?


 Simple yes, take it or leave it, but I will say yes.


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## acxpert

How much is it going to cost to upgrade to a 622 if I am already a customer and want to upgrade. I have a standard non-DVR/HD receiver.


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## Ron Barry

acxpert said:


> How much is it going to cost to upgrade to a 622 if I am already a customer and want to upgrade. I have a standard non-DVR/HD receiver.


I believe to upgrade to the Vip-622 it would cost 299. You would be leasing the 622 and this included installation.


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## acxpert

Ron Barry said:


> I believe to upgrade to the Vip-622 it would cost 299. You would be leasing the 622 and this included installation.


So would I pay the $299 plus a monthly lease for the unit plus HD channels plus a DVR fee?


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## Ron Barry

:welcome_s acxpert.. Let me point you to a thread that might be more appropriate.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=50885

Yes there would be a lease fee but if you have multiple receivers you would be paying a receiver fee. I believe there is a difference, but I always get lost in the details. Yes a DVR fee. as to the HD channels. I believe you would have to have some level of HD or there is a no HD fee associate.

Other people are better at this... I get way to confused. check the above thread and if that does not help, I suggest posting there.


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## James Long

Let's keep this thread clean of rants and such. The other posts have been moved to their own thread.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=51798

This forum is here to discuss Dish Network™'s High Definition products not to bash anyone. Thanks for your cooperation.


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## tnsprin

tech_head said:


> They didn't recall defective 921's.
> The RF receiver chip for the 921 has heat and solder problems.
> 
> hmmmmm.


famous hardware bug, that many had to return there 921's to get fixed.


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## invaliduser88

Jeff McClellan said:


> Well it looks to me like, Perfection before Mass Production. I think most cant argue with that. But as far as I have heard, February 1 is a go.


:thats: Are we talking about the same company??? I remember when the 921 was hard to get and still today it's as buggy as hell.

Believe me bugs are not going to stop Dish from getting the 622 out the door.


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## Stewart Vernon

Not being "in the know" I tend to think that IF there were a major problem, they would not be sending out emails like that at this point... OR if they did, it would be to a handful of important retailers who have big accounts with large orders in place making the message a very much confidential you-could-lose-your-retailer-status-if-leaked kind of thing.

I'm still waiting to hear something official from Dish and/or my local retailer.


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## Rogueone

James Long said:


> The only people who have an active 622 are beta testers. Sorry, but you are misinformed.
> 
> One thing to note about the first 622s. There is a lot more to getting them to customers than just throwing them in UPS or FedEx. Since the deal involves the installation of dishes and switches there will be a built in delay as they schedule installs.
> 
> As far as yesterdays statement about 'defective chips' ... that isn't information that ANY company would give out days before a product release except in confidence. So it's either confidential (in violation of forum rules) or bad information.


JL, you very well may be correct, but the person I was speaking with, whom I know from outside activities, not from having called Dish, mentioned some retailers seem to have already started handing out 622's to sell as this week they got some activation requests. That seems reasonable especially since there are some ebay sales as well. If these were beta boxes, what's the point in giving someone a beta box 7 days before it goes live? It's not like in MMORPG's where you want to stress test your login servers and get 5000 player loads on your gear before opening day to find stress points. You aren't gonna get much useful feedback in 7 days that will help your initial releases be good. Again, they could have been beta installs I guess, but just doesn't seem logical to give out a beta box last week, shouldn't those have been given out last month?


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## James Long

At the moment the only software being sent to receivers is beta software - and it's only being sent to specific receivers - so even IF a retailer happened to have one and happened to sell one and happened to get it installed in a customer's home it would not be very functional. (More on this in a minute.)

The eBay sales are most likely frauds. The listings I've seen state shipping in 7 to 10 days ... just long enough to gamble that he'll have them in stock or that software will be released so non-beta units can be functional.

_This is my opinion:_ Early beta testers have had beta software 'for a while'. As issues were identified they were given new downloads and the glitches were ironed out. (Normal beta process.) But the one thing that early beta testers cannot do is a fresh install. Unless E* reverts the boxes to 'factory' software then has the tester reinstall their box that "first plug in" experience cannot be duplicated. The final betas would be useful to give a report, good or bad, about what a fresh install experience would be. It would also increase the number of eyes and ears on any final issues being polished out of the software.

"Not very functional" - When I got my ViP-211 it came (as most E* receivers do) with factory software. The factory software is very simple - it's design is to allow the installer to connect the receiver to a dish or switch and do minimal setup then IMMEDIATELY download whatever software is current from the satellites.

Under factory software the 211 powers on to the point dish screen with options to do a check switch and an option to adjust the modulator. When you try to power down or exit that screen the ONLY task the receiver wants to do is download new software. You might be able to trick the receiver and get to a menu before taking that download ... but you will find a lot of menu items grayed out.

It would be fair to say the 211 receiver is useless until it takes the first software download - and the 622 should follow the same design. Enough software to point a dish and check switch then download something better. But right now there is no 'general release' software - so the receiver would be stuck in 'stupid mode' until something better comes along.

'Something better' for the ViP-211 is currently L261. When we see a report of a software version for the ViP-622 (other than beta software) get excited ... because then any boxes sold or leased will work.


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## Rogueone

ok, that makes sense, if they haven't considered the current code to be release quality as yet. I hadn't even thought about if the code was considered beta and such yet  I would have to agree with others who wonder why not take orders now and start the installs on the first, but probably doesn't matter since I'm likely to be an April 1 upgrader myself unless the rebate is offered after the fact  

and I didn't realize the units had no real OS on them. I had always figured they came with the most recent code the way a PC has the most recent windows as of some point when the manufacturer made a master install, then you update what you need from that point. Like new PC's have SP2 already installed, where I had to download it. But if Dish starts with a Cisco-like rommon type of base code to get the box sync'd and then downloads whatever is the current code in full at that point, yeah, I can see that being an issue for now  

sa dang it, how do we all become beta testers? haha I've had HD for 2 yrs and put up with a 921 all this time, and I record 10 to 15 shows a week, wouldn't that make me a good tester? hehe I really do like playing with gadgets before they come out


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## Ron Barry

Rogueone said:


> ok, that makes sense, if they haven't considered the current code to be release quality as yet. I hadn't even thought about if the code was considered beta and such yet  I would have to agree with others who wonder why not take orders now and start the installs on the first, but probably doesn't matter since I'm likely to be an April 1 upgrader myself unless the rebate is offered after the fact
> 
> and I didn't realize the units had no real OS on them. I had always figured they came with the most recent code the way a PC has the most recent windows as of some point when the manufacturer made a master install, then you update what you need from that point. Like new PC's have SP2 already installed, where I had to download it. But if Dish starts with a Cisco-like rommon type of base code to get the box sync'd and then downloads whatever is the current code in full at that point, yeah, I can see that being an issue for now
> 
> sa dang it, how do we all become beta testers? haha I've had HD for 2 yrs and put up with a 921 all this time, and I record 10 to 15 shows a week, wouldn't that make me a good tester? hehe I really do like playing with gadgets before they come out


It is a little more than rommon (former Cisco employee) and after it goes live and they work through the receivers in stock they will start to load the receivers with whatever current released version is available (Been my experience in the past).


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm surprised that companies sometimes do smart things 

But the forced-download of code on initial installation is a smart move. I've bought lots of technology products, computers especially, that don't always play nice right out of the box... or worse don't play well with other technology products at first! Sometimes you go through the chicken or the egg routine to get all parts updated to the latest firmware before all is well.

Having a receiver come with "nothing" and downloading code as step #1 is a great way to make sure an installed receiver always gets the latest (presumably proven) level of code before it starts doing anything else.

I like it.


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## hdaddikt

James Long said:


> As far as yesterdays statement about 'defective chips' ... that isn't information that ANY company would give out days before a product release except in confidence. So it's either confidential (in violation of forum rules) or bad information.


That might be 'more' true for a company putting out a competitive product. But when you don't sell receivers at Best Buy next to Pioneers, Sonys, etc. etc. it does not really make that much difference. You have no one else to turn to for your receiver.


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## James Long

It's a publicly traded company. There are stockholders to protect - including the #1 stockholder.

In any case, by the end of the week we'll see if the Feb 1st goal is met or if there will be a delay. Have patience.


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## rollua1

my source is still telling me that they had to replace 1000's of chips in the 622 and that I may not get one untill the end of Feb


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## tomcrown1

Actually the box does come with the software, but it needs to be activated by Dish for the box to work.. All new boxes are program to look for the latest software before it ask you to call in to activate the box. The boxes are useless if Dish does not actviate them, even if you download the latest software.


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## BobMurdoch

We're all forgetting that "Version 1.0" of any new receiver generation has been notoriously flaky (especially the PVRs).

The first E* PVR = Dishplayer...... (Shudder)

The first E* HD PVR = 921 (double shudder)

The first E* Mpeg4 HD PVR = 622 (Who knows? But I'm guessing these forums will be flooded with glitches in record time if history repeats itself again)


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## James Long

tomcrown1 said:


> Actually the box does come with the software, but it needs to be activated by Dish for the box to work.. All new boxes are program to look for the latest software before it ask you to call in to activate the box. The boxes are useless if Dish does not actviate them, even if you download the latest software.


It is a combination. Without the current software (left on factory software) even a fully activated box is useless. A receiver with the proper software but unsubscribed just doesn't have programming.

One note - E* has recently been locking down the 'FTA programming' so unsubed boxes see a lot less than they once did. A lot of stuff isn't available until one gets to the AT level.

In any case, it's hand in hand - one needs released software and authorization. Neither comes with the receiver when shipped. (Released software may be added later.)


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## Rogueone

BobMurdoch said:


> We're all forgetting that "Version 1.0" of any new receiver generation has been notoriously flaky (especially the PVRs).
> 
> The first E* PVR = Dishplayer...... (Shudder)
> 
> The first E* HD PVR = 921 (double shudder)
> 
> The first E* Mpeg4 HD PVR = 622 (Who knows? But I'm guessing these forums will be flooded with glitches in record time if history repeats itself again)


I will personally be surprised if this one is a disaster since they are basically upgrading a working box that most seem to like a lot if I've read the 942 comments correctly.


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## rollua1

Is anybody hearing anything about a shortage of receivers for tomorrow ?


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## James Long

Only rumors.


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## rollua1

James Long said:


> Only rumors.


Came out of Charlie's office so I don't think that its just a rumor


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## thecodeman

rollua1 said:


> Came out of Charlie's office so I don't think that its just a rumor


So, you report that a friend of yours tells you there is a shortage, then you ask if anyone has heard about a shortage, but then you say that it came from Charlies office. Why would you be concerned about asking anyone else if they have heard otherwise if you heard it "straight from the horse's mouth" ?


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## James Long

rollua1 said:


> Came out of Charlie's office so I don't think that its just a rumor


So you ask a question and then answer it yourself? Are you trolling?


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## BobMurdoch

Rogueone said:


> I will personally be surprised if this one is a disaster since they are basically upgrading a working box that most seem to like a lot if I've read the 942 comments correctly.


If that is the case I will be happily surprised. If it is just a 942 with a different chip, then we may have a smoother launch than I expect.

Given the HDMI output problems though on the 211, I'm still wary......


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## Stewart Vernon

BobMurdoch said:


> If that is the case I will be happily surprised. If it is just a 942 with a different chip, then we may have a smoother launch than I expect.
> 
> Given the HDMI output problems though on the 211, I'm still wary......


Its conceivable that the 622 is not that different from a 942... but a 211 is a lot different from an 811... hence a possibility for more initial bugs.

No insider information, just a guess on my part there based on the posts I've been reading.


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## rollua1

James Long said:


> So you ask a question and then answer it yourself? Are you trolling?


No why do you want to ban me ?

Just trying to find out if the info that I am getting is correct


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## James Long

The information I am giving is correct. It's only a rumor that it came out of "Charlie's office", isn't it?


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## dave1234

BobMurdoch said:


> If that is the case I will be happily surprised. If it is just a 942 with a different chip, then we may have a smoother launch than I expect.
> 
> Given the HDMI output problems though on the 211, I'm still wary......


It's likely not a different chip. The main processor/deocder is identical, a supplemental IC was added for MPEG4 decoding. That's assuming they are using the same Broadcom chip which had a MPEG subprocessor available in the fall.


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## Ron Barry

I don't see anyone wanting to ban anyone. I suggest going back and re-read the thread. Your reply to James saying he hears it as a rumor does look like you asked the question just to answer it yourself.


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## rollua1

James Long said:


> The information I am giving is correct. It's only a rumor that it came out of "Charlie's office", isn't it?


No the info I am giving did come of Charlie's office and you can take that to the bank. If you want to discuss it with me feel free to send me a PM Thanks


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## Jim5506

My information also came from Charlie's office, but I do not interpret it as saying there will be a shortage, just that they had to call back several thousand receivers from distributors for the aforesaid reason. Perhaps this is a good thing that they found it and fixed it, why all the grousing.

So they had 12k and now they have 10k units ready for dispersal tomorrow (actual mileage may vary).


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## James Long

Perhaps Charlie needs a plumber.


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## Jim5506

Perhaps people need to learn no to blow simple statements out of proportion, inferring what is not implied.


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## Cowchip

So if I subscribe (new sub) tomorrow and ask for the HD pack with DVR, what will I get since there are supposedly only 240 vip622's available nationwide? Will they provide just a HD receiver until they finally become available? I would like the system installed ASAP to get ESPN2 and others. I suppose I can wait a little for DVR as I've never had one before. Don't know what I'm missing I suppose so what's a little longer!


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## liferules

Who said there's only 240 units nationwide? I would be very suspicious of any company going live with a product and having less than 5 units per state...


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## Ron Barry

:welcome_s cowchip. I doubt that there is only 240 units available. Lots of rumors with numbers being floated around. Lets wait and see how this pans out. I would be willing to bet anyone there is more than 240 units available. Anyone want to take me up on the bet?


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## Stewart Vernon

rollua1 said:


> No why do you want to ban me ?
> 
> Just trying to find out if the info that I am getting is correct


If you got your information "straight from Charlie's office"... then why would you wonder if the information you are getting is correct?

I know if *I* thought I had a reliable contact at Dish and I believed that my info came straight from Charlie himself... then I wouldn't be asking other people what they were hearing, because I would already know.

Asking the question makes people suspicious of your motivations.


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## rollua1

HDMe said:


> If you got your information "straight from Charlie's office"... then why would you wonder if the information you are getting is correct?
> 
> I know if *I* thought I had a reliable contact at Dish and I believed that my info came straight from Charlie himself... then I wouldn't be asking other people what they were hearing, because I would already know.
> 
> Asking the question makes people suspicious of your motivations.


Well with Dish I have found that different reps will say different things. I was trying to take all the info that others have heard and get the right answer. Sorry if I haven't posted on this site in a long time . That's what upset Mod James as he said that it looked weird and thought that I was troll . Good luck tomorrow cause you will need it .


----------



## Cowchip

Ron Barry said:


> :welcome_s cowchip. I doubt that there is only 240 units available. Lots of rumors with numbers being floated around. Lets wait and see how this pans out. I would be willing to bet anyone there is more than 240 units available. Anyone want to take me up on the bet?


Thanks for the welcome. I hope you're right because when it comes to this stuff I'm typically not very patient! I have to leave town tomorrow but I'm going to call and place my order in hopes they can have someone out to install soon or shortly after I get back. I saw that 240 figure on "another site" and it was linked to the bad chip theory. We'll find out in about 12 hours!


----------



## Mikey

James Long said:


> ...'Something better' for the ViP-211 is currently L261. When we see a report of a software version for the ViP-622 (other than beta software) get excited ... because then any boxes sold or leased will work.


Okay, can we get excited now:

01/31/2006: 1101 Software Version L3.50 for ViP622 
Effective Wednesday, February 1st , Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L3.50 for the ViP622 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.

At this time L3.50 will be the valid software version for the ViP622.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01/31/2006: 1101 Software Version L2.62 for ViP211/DP411 
Effective Wednesday, February 1st , Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L2.62 for the ViP211/DP411 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.

At this time L2.62 will be the valid software version for the ViP211/DP411.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## rollua1

I am not sure if we can get excited when my local retailer told me that if I am not on a list already then it will probley be March or April before I see one . Good news is that they did get a bunch of 211's in and will be here Friday to install one.

There are going to be many upset tomorrow when they find out that there are only a couple of hundred 622's out there and most of those will go to the testers .


----------



## saweetnesstrev

Mikey you rock,, There will be more 211's then 622's yah?  Cause im getting a 211  49 bucks great deal


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## James Long

rollua1 said:


> There are going to be many upset tomorrow when they find out that there are only a couple of hundred 622's out there and most of those will go to the testers .


The testers already have theirs. The next 10,000 this month are for customers (although retailers may want to put one on display in their showroom before commiting to installs).


----------



## rollua1

James are you saying that 10K of them will be out this month ? I find that hard to believe with the faulty chip recall.


----------



## James Long

rollua1 said:


> James are you saying that 10K of them will be out this month ? I find that hard to believe with the faulty chip recall.


Posted 01-30-06 at 07:33 PM ET:
Important Announcement from Dish. (622 Availability)


----------



## P Smith

Mikey said:


> Okay, can we get excited now:
> 
> 01/31/2006: 1101 Software Version L3.50 for ViP622
> Effective Wednesday, February 1st , Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L3.50 for the ViP622 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.
> 
> At this time L3.50 will be the valid software version for the ViP622.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 01/31/2006: 1101 Software Version L2.62 for ViP211/DP411
> Effective Wednesday, February 1st , Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L2.62 for the ViP211/DP411 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.
> 
> At this time L2.62 will be the valid software version for the ViP211/DP411.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It was reported today 622 got new beta ACS1 after ACR1 and increased number of the receivers from 313 to 328. Nice prelude for tomorrow.
Sametime L2.62 for 411 really start spooling today.


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## James Long

I suspect you will see L350 by the end of the day - but then that is what "Engineering plans" isn't it.


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## P Smith

Ok, I'll ask to check it in one hour, mean 12am EDT.


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## P Smith

We have new software !  Beta again  ACP1 and for 159 receivers only.

I'm really doubt if someone getting the 622 today with scheduled installation tomorrow will able to use it.


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## Ron Barry

Remember P Smith.. the Beta could be for future rleased software and does not necessarly mean anything in regards to a Golden release.


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## Mikey

P Smith said:


> We have new software !  Beta again  ACP1 and for 159 receivers only.
> 
> I'm really doubt if someone getting the 622 today with scheduled installation tomorrow will able to use it.


Looks like Dish pushed 622 firmware downloads back to Thursday:

02/01/2006: 1110 Software Version L3.50 for ViP622

Effective Thursday, February 2nd , Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L3.50 for the ViP622 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.

At this time L3.50 will be the valid software version for the ViP622.


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## rollua1

if you have an install date in the next 2 weeks it will more than likely change to to the end of the month.


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## P Smith

I'm agree with you, judging by those threads with scheduled dates for install 622s and this stream information.


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## P Smith

Ron Barry said:


> Remember P Smith.. the Beta could be for future rleased software and does not necessarly mean anything in regards to a Golden release.


Well, then you should remember how Dish streaming software :sure: .
Your scenario have nothing to Dish rules.


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## Ron Barry

Dish rules? I am not sure what you are referring to.. The point I was making is that the new beta you mentioned might be for a future released software and not for L3.50. Then again it might not be. 

If you are pointing to the fact that L3.50 is not out it.. You are correct that if you had a 622 today there is yet to be software in the stream for it. 

Based on another post, looks like thursday is the day.


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## P Smith

I mean, so far Dish spooled future versions as beta ( can we say 'gamma' ? ) to different scoop of 'gamma' ( pilot ?) receivers before release production variant. 
For this case with 622 there wasn't any production software spooled. That why I'm sceptical to treat the ACR1, ACP1, ACQ1 as future releases.


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> I mean, so far Dish spooled future versions as beta ( can we say 'gamma' ? ) to different scoop of 'gamma' ( pilot ?) receivers before release production variant.
> For this case with 622 there wasn't any production software spooled. That why I'm sceptical to treat the ACR1, ACP1, ACQ1 as future releases.


Very few people usually find out what beta became a production release. As long as the 622 is on trucks on the way to customers E* can continue to do last minute tweaks. Why waste the number "L350" until they have to?


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## P Smith

hehe - those engineers likes round numbers


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## P Smith

Good news. Big changes ! Beta software ACP1 spooling for all receivers 1-4000000000.  Will wait if production L3.50 will come tomorrow.


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## James Long

Looks like "ACQ1" and/or "ACR1" from your list _could_ be future releases.


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## rollua1

Anyones apointment times change ?


A person that I work with had an install setup for Saturday and it got pushed back to the 25th


----------



## thecodeman

Nope...still 2/21...


----------



## churoval

rollua1 said:


> Anyones apointment times change ?
> 
> A person that I work with had an install setup for Saturday and it got pushed back to the 25th


Mine got pushed back from 2/11 to 2/24.


----------



## DoyleS

Mine has been 2/28 from the start. I guess I'll just hang out near this thread for the next month. Looks like I won't be able to sell my 6000 until March. 

..Doyle


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## mscroggi

harsh said:


> The information that has been assembled indicates that the VIP622 is substantially a 942 with an Ethernet port and an MPEG4 capable decoder. This is not a significant change in hardware nor software; especially if the Ethernet isn't yet enabled.


There are some enhancements to the vip622 versus the 942. For example, it uses the 6.3 UHF remote with an extended range over what the 942 can offer. Also the output from the RF modulator can select tv1 or tv2 as a source.


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## cshaff34

Yep...pushed back from the 10th to the 28th....bye bye Olympics!


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## craig8868

yup, Dish called my wife this afternoon and mine got pushed back as well from 2/11 to 3/4. The first available was 2/28 but the wife wants me home to supervise.  

oh well.....


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## P Smith

James Long said:


> Looks like "ACQ1" and/or "ACR1" from your list _could_ be future releases.


Next round - not your,  spooling new ACU1 beta now. Dish have plenty time before first 622 will shine at someone home before April, 1st. :grin:


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## James Long

Is ACP1 still for 1 to 4million (except targeted betas) as you reported yesterday?

I wonder if this is Charlie's living room:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/programming/proghdtv.shtml


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## P Smith

That's something stupid - if you'll relax on the sofa you'll look in window, not to the four TVs; what about DD5.1 from all of them ? No sub, no rear speakers.


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## P Smith

James Long said:


> Is ACP1 still for 1 to 4million (except targeted betas) as you reported yesterday?
> 
> I wonder if this is Charlie's living room:
> http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/programming/proghdtv.shtml


Yeah, ACU1 spooling for all 4 billions receivers around of the World. 
But ACP1 - for 159 only.


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## Card46

If the TV2 has only one output (RCA) how will i be able to feed my TV 2


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## tomcrown1

James long that looks like the living room that is on my DVD that I use to set up my tv or is it my living romm?? hmm hmm


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## James Long

Olympic Channel Discussion moved here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=52335


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## rollua1

they are still spooling beta software . This doesn't look good!


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## P Smith

not just BETA, but three beta versions ACP1, ACQ1, ACV1 simutaniously


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## James Long

Then I'd say it _*is*_ looking good. Still trying to get it right and not giving up.


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## invaliduser88

James Long said:


> Then I'd say it _*is*_ looking good. Still trying to get it right and not giving up.


Using customers as beta testers...nothing new here.


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## James Long

invaliduser88 said:


> Using customers as beta testers...nothing new here.


No. That would be the case if E* would have released the software and allowed the first wave of installs to be unsuspecting testers. That has not happened.


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## kmcnamara

James Long said:


> No. That would be the case if E* would have released the software and allowed the first wave of installs to be unsuspecting testers. That has not happened.


You mean like what happened with the 921.


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## Ron Barry

Well I was not an early 921 user, but my 921 box has never received a beta version of software. By Beta I mean a release that was tagged as a Beta release. Big difference between what a person feels the level of code is what a company tags it as. 

Did the 921 get a code dropped that was tagged as Beta?


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## BobMurdoch

When I first received it had a release number like L.054 or something like that. It forced you to download an update after you set up the box, and then it had a L.1xx number...... So it shipped with a beta release, but updated itself before you watched your first few minutes of programming....


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## Mikey

I think ALL the 811 code was Beta, tagged or not.


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## Ron Barry

Liked I said. There is a difference between what is classified as Beta code and when an end user feels the code on his receiver is Beta code. Difference is... One is that Dish has tagged a release as Beta and distributed the code to only Beta users. The other is an opinion of the level of code from the end user. 

Simpler terms....
One is an official Beta code release.. Other is release coded that feels like Beta code to the end user. The latter is opinion based on each specific user as Mikey and Kelly just demonstrated. I definitely do not agree with Mikey's 811 statement. 

The offical Beta code release is fact based and is not based on opinion. 

Thanks Bob for verifying that it was only the initial 921 boxes that had Beta on them for the sole purpose of updating to the latest released code.


----------



## terraform

Add me to the list!

VIP 622 installation date: 2/27


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## Ron Barry

:welcome_s terraform


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## BobMurdoch

Hopefully I'll beat you there. My date is 2/22.....


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## Mikey

Ron Barry said:


> ...
> Simpler terms....
> One is an official Beta code release.. Other is release coded that feels like Beta code to the end user. The latter is opinion based on each specific user as Mikey and Kelly just demonstrated. I definitely do not agree with Mikey's 811 statement.
> 
> The offical Beta code release is fact based and is not based on opinion.
> ...


Yeah, you're right Ron. Some of that code that was production released for 811s never would have gone out if they had beta tested it.


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## terraform

Will I need an HDMI cable prior to my very exciting VIP 622 installation?

< Quick Observation/Complaint >

I initially received the VIP 211, which I returned to wait for the VIP 622. But, I was very dissappointed to see the VIP 211 did not include the required Component or HDMI cable needed for HD. Instead they include standard composite, which will only do SD. Sure, cables _can_ be expensive, but you know what, they aren't. It just seems really low class to pump up your HD offerings, only to provide a product that will not perform out of the box.


----------



## IowaStateFan

terraform said:


> Will I need an HDMI cable prior to my very exciting VIP 622 installation?
> 
> < Quick Observation/Complaint >
> 
> I initially received the VIP 211, which I returned to wait for the VIP 622. But, I was very dissappointed to see the VIP 211 did not include the required Component or HDMI cable needed for HD. Instead they include standard composite, which will only do SD. Sure, cables _can_ be expensive, but you know what, they aren't. It just seems really low class to pump up your HD offerings, only to provide a product that will not perform out of the box.


That's standard practice in the high tech business. Have you purchased a printer lately? They don't come with cables. I guess it's more important to make some price break point than to provide a functional product.


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## James Long

kmcnamara said:


> James Long said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. That would be the case if E* would have released the software and allowed the first wave of installs to be unsuspecting testers. That has not happened.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like what happened with the 921.
Click to expand...

I know some early 921 users feel like they were beta testing (even though by definition they were not). Note that has not happened with the 622 (the topic of this support forum).


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## Ron Barry

Mikey said:


> Yeah, you're right Ron. Some of that code that was production released for 811s never would have gone out if they had beta tested it.


Well you could read it that way.. But that was not my point. My point is that the quality of code once released is the perception of each user. You feel that it is Beta quality code based on your user experience. Mine is the totally opposite and I feel that the level of code I have received on my 811 is not Beta level code at all.

Same goes with 921 users. Percentage of them feel the code is up to snuff while others feel it is Beta. Guess my point is, fact that someone feels that the level of code is Beta level code does not make it Beta code. Beta code in my book as a very particular meaning as I stated previously.

Guess our opinions differ as to what "Beta" code means.


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## James Long

Next: We'll define the word "IS" - in the Potporri forum.


----------



## knealy

The "fact" is beta is whatever the company says it is regardless of its readiness for release. Years ago it had meaning. Now it doesn't.


----------



## Rogueone

terraform said:


> Will I need an HDMI cable prior to my very exciting VIP 622 installation?
> 
> < Quick Observation/Complaint >
> 
> I initially received the VIP 211, which I returned to wait for the VIP 622. But, I was very dissappointed to see the VIP 211 did not include the required Component or HDMI cable needed for HD. Instead they include standard composite, which will only do SD. Sure, cables _can_ be expensive, but you know what, they aren't. It just seems really low class to pump up your HD offerings, only to provide a product that will not perform out of the box.


cables aren't provided because it isn't cost effective. Say I package a 3ft RGB cable, how many can use that? What if I make it 6', or 10', or 20'. The cost to me keeps going up and I still don't know if it works for the person buying. Ok, so I provide an HDMI cable. Oops, user has a 2001 HD unit that only takes RGB. It's simply not cost effective, and the cables they would give you are also lower quality than you will likely buy when you got out to get some, plus you will buy the correct size, so no wasted $$ on a part in the box many wouldn't have used anyway


----------



## harsh

Rogueone said:


> cables aren't provided because it isn't cost effective. Say I package a 3ft RGB cable, how many can use that? What if I make it 6', or 10', or 20'. The cost to me keeps going up and I still don't know if it works for the person buying.


The bulk of the cable cost is in the ends. Making it three feet longer adds at most $1 to the cost. As I recall, a 6' DVI cable came with the Dish branded televisions.


----------



## James Long

The bulk of the cable cost is in the markups. At least for the consumer.


----------



## Mikey

terraform said:


> ...
> I initially received the VIP 211, which I returned to wait for the VIP 622. But, I was very dissappointed to see the VIP 211 did not include the required Component or HDMI cable needed for HD. Instead they include standard composite, which will only do SD. Sure, cables _can_ be expensive, but you know what, they aren't. It just seems really low class to pump up your HD offerings, only to provide a product that will not perform out of the box.


I guess they got the message. My 211 arrived yesterday, and the component cables were included in the box.


----------



## terraform

Mikey said:


> I guess they got the message. My 211 arrived yesterday, and the component cables were included in the box.


Glad to hear it!


----------



## Rogueone

hmm, just saw that a UPS cargo plane burned overnight. Does Dish ship 622's via UPS? I hope not or some might have an extra crispy version on the way  hahaha


----------



## BobMurdoch

Rogueone said:


> hmm, just saw that a UPS cargo plane burned overnight. Does Dish ship 622's via UPS? I hope not or some might have an extra crispy version on the way  hahaha


Must have been the HDMI ports that started the fire.......


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## tomcrown1

hmm, just saw that a UPS cargo plane burned overnight. Does Dish ship 622's via UPS? I hope not or some might have an extra crispy version on the way hahaha


I want the orginal no extra crispy for me. Taste like fish I guess


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## DrJHilty

I talked to my local sattellite retailer today and she said the software bug has been fixed in the vip622. The boxes will be shipped out to them on Friday (2/10) and they will receive them on monday (2/13). They will start installing systems on tuesday. She is going to call be back to schedule an install, but I am optimistic it will be early next week. I can't wait to check this new receiver out.


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## olgeezer

622s are in JVCs midwest warehouse. Dish and the distributers should be in a ship mode TODAY


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## dssturbo1

rollua1 said:


> They are going to be harder to find than an Xbox 360.
> 
> We currently ran into some technical problems with our 622's and will be very limited this month for our customers. That promotion may be pushed into next month.


no comparison to xbox 360 supply and demand. MS intial Nov 22nd launch was for 300,000 xbox 360 and basically sold out in one day nationwide. there were well over 10,000 auctions for xbox 360 on ebay at one time with prices easily going for $200-400 over retail. You will not see dish customers camped out and lined up like people wanting xbox 360 did at best buy, circuit city, gamestop, target, walmart etc... around the country.


----------



## tomcrown1

I must be a Dish nut I lined up in front of my phone and at 3:01 MST called dished then 4:01 and 5:01 and 5:30 and got to order the VIP622(yeah that is me the nut in line for the VIP622)


----------



## Ron Barry

dssturbo1 said:


> no comparison to xbox 360 supply and demand. MS intial Nov 22nd launch was for 300,000 xbox 360 and basically sold out in one day nationwide. there were well over 10,000 auctions for xbox 360 on ebay at one time with prices easily going for $200-400 over retail. You will not see dish customers camped out and lined up like people wanting xbox 360 did at best buy, circuit city, gamestop, target, walmart etc... around the country.


Well that is good news. There are some people nuttier than Dish Nerds!


----------



## Kendick

rollua1 said:



> They are going to be harder to find than an Xbox 360.
> 
> We currently ran into some technical problems with our 622's and will be very limited this month for our customers. That promotion may be pushed into next month.


I ordered the VIP 622 on Feb 2 and was given an install date of Feb 11. I received a call yesterday changing the date to March 11. Today I was informed that since I was to get a 1000 dish free, the date is now March 18.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring. I did not understand the reason for the problem because of some dialect problem. I assume that the receivers/dish is not available in the Phoenix area at this time.

Patience is a virtue for the virtuous.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Dish announced an availability date to order of 2/1... not a ship date. As far as I can tell, and even though a lot of us are either disappointed or waiting, there was no announced "street" date.

XBox had an announced street date... where units were promised to be in store locations for customers to pick up with purchase. Actual orders for said units were taken months prior to that, and many customers who pre-ordered paid months before that date... which is more analogous to people ordering on 2/1 a Dish receiver and not getting it until March.

Also... Microsoft either underestimated initial demand and underproduced OR produced as many as they could at that time for financial reasons OR wanted to limit initial supply to raise awareness and demand for it as it appeared to be "rare" for a period of time.

Dish, on the other hand, appears to not really have guaged demand at all... and just announced a date when they thought they would be ready and drew the line in the sand to go from there.

OK, that was more than one difference


----------



## bdmd

I just called and spoke to DISH "customer service" to see about upgrading to the 622, and was told "I recommend you wait until april, those receivers are not available yet." my reply--what about the web site that says they are the the dbs forum that says they are? "they are not". whats up? I have a 942 that I purchased myself, so I probably will wait until april anyway to get the "rebate." I just wanted to get some info, but it seems like thay don't know what is going on.


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## James Long

The rebate is the primary reason to wait. At this point I think we've burned out the CSRs.


----------



## BobaBird

Ron Barry said:


> Did the 921 get a code dropped that was tagged as Beta?


The first public release L142 was supposed to be the last Beta. L054 is the factory software that gets the receiver through initial setup and its first download. http://ekb.dbstalk.com/310

I return the thread to discussion of cables and XBox as I move into my 2nd 1000. IOW, this is my 1000th post!


----------



## Stewart Vernon

BobaBird said:


> I return the thread to discussion of cables and XBox as I move into my 2nd 1000. IOW, this is my 1000th post!


And you noticed too... I didn't know my 1000th post until someone pointed it out to me, and now I'm creeping up on 1500. The time flies by!


----------



## Rogueone

Kendick said:


> I ordered the VIP 622 on Feb 2 and was given an install date of Feb 11. I received a call yesterday changing the date to March 11. Today I was informed that since I was to get a 1000 dish free, the date is now March 18.
> I wonder what tomorrow will bring. I did not understand the reason for the problem because of some dialect problem. I assume that the receivers/dish is not available in the Phoenix area at this time.
> 
> Patience is a virtue for the virtuous.


sounds like a doulbe whammy, as there probably aren't any D1000's left at your local installer


----------



## James Long

BobaBird said:


> this is my 1000th post!





HDMe said:


> and now I'm creeping up on 1500. The time flies by!


Ah, I remember passing 3.5k 
Congrats Boba ...

I consider the code it comes with to be 'Factory Code'. My ViP-211 came with just enough brains to download a real version. I would not consider that code as beta nor the reciever as 'released with beta code' since the first thing the reciever did (after I verified connection to the satellites) was grab the real software (L261 at the time). In fact, it is a challenge NOT to download that code.

I suppose all working versions come out of beta work, but once released the code is no longer beta.


----------



## P Smith

If someone got the 622, then it's time to connect - L3.50 in stream !


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> If someone got the 622, then it's time to connect - L3.50 in stream !


Cool. 
:balloons: 
:goodjob: 
:icon_band


----------



## Ron Barry

Cool!!!! Glad to hear it... User's should start to see their 622s then.


----------



## scooby2

Woohoo!!!!


----------



## tomcrown1

Anyone being installed this weekend monday tuesday?? me 2/25/06


----------



## MSG

Me 3/07/06 :hurah:


----------



## DVDDAD

tomcrown1 said:


> Anyone being installed this weekend monday tuesday?? me 2/25/06


My dealer called me this a.m. He said his distributer called and got some in today. He should have one in my hands on Monday or Tuesday (2/13 or 2/14). Only time will tell!


----------



## shamus46

DVDDAD said:


> My dealer called me this a.m. He said his distributer called and got some in today. He should have one in my hands on Monday or Tuesday (2/13 or 2/14). Only time will tell!


I just got a call from my dealer and he'll be here next Wednesday to instal my 622.


----------



## Cardini

shamus46 said:


> I just got a call from my dealer and he'll be here next Wednesday to instal my 622.


My dealer just confirmed via e-mail that units are shipping and he expects mine to be in his shop early next week. He'll schedule the install once he has it.


----------

