# Adjusting Sub settings on Klipsch System



## Rikinky

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a question. I have the Klipsch Quintet 3 system with a Klipsch 10" sub and a Yamaha HTR5850 reciever. I was wondering how I should be setting my Sub crossover and how can I get deeper LFE but keep the bass from music at a lower level?


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## Carl Spock

You asked two questions. Let me do the second one first.

(1) You get more low bass at lower volume levels by turning it up. The problem is the human ear. We can't hear bass as well at lower levels. That's why older stereos had a Loudness button. These were designed to boost the bass for low level listening. Loudness compensation has gone away but the problem remains. Use your receiver's bass control to turn up the bottom end for low level listening. You also might want to tweak up the treble as we are also less sensitive to highs at lower volume levels but the bigger problem is in the bass. That you would have to turn up more.

Older Yamaha stereo receivers had a Variable Loudness Control for exactly this problem. When multi-channel home theater receivers came out, this knob went away. It was too expensive to adjust all the channels equally, or at least that is what I was told by Yamaha's management. It's too bad. Their Variable Loudness Control worked perfectly.

(2) There are three major controls on your subwoofer: volume, crossover and phase. You should get the first two close before you try to adjust the third. But even before that, we have to adjust your receiver. Go into its Sound Menu. Find its crossover settings and turn it up to 200 Hz. We don't want double crossover action. That will kill your phase response, slurring the bass. While you are in your receiver's menu, make sure the speaker sizes are all set to small and that the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) are only going to your subwoofer. You'll find this last adjustment in your menu under Bass Out.

Now you can start adjusting the subwoofer. With the sub's own crossover knob turned to 100 Hz, turn up the volume on the back of woofer until you can hear the bass well. Watch a movie or listen to music. Adjust the sub's volume until the bass seems about right. In other words, enough. To fine tune the volume and crossover levels, turn the two knobs on the back of your woofer opposite of each other. If you turn up the subwoofer level, turn down the crossover point. If you reduce the sub's volume, turn up the crossover. These adjustments will be small but it will allow you to get the bass just right.

Now set the phase control. You want to switch it so that you get the most bass. In some setups, you might not hear a lot of difference. That's OK. The difference can be subtle, too. I like switching it in the middle of a movie or a musical piece. That way I can hear the difference the best.

After getting the phase switch set correctly, you might have to go back and tweak the volume/crossover settings on the sub.

Lastly, you have a LFE control in the Sound Menu on your sub. If it seems like you get differing levels of bass on movies versus music or regular TV, you can use this control to compensate. The LFE control in the menu only affects the bass output on Dolby Digital sources like movies. Personally, I like setting up the subwoofer controls using music and with the receiver in stereo. I then use the LFE control to get the right amount of bass for movies.


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## lugnutathome

The Klipsch subs typically top out at at around 120 (at least my 4 Reference series subs do) and setting the crossover in the Yamaha at 200 would be diverting all material under 200 from the satellite speakers and fronts (unless he chooses "Both" on the fronts) to the sub which won't be capable of the extended range.

Again I'm not familiar with the unit the OP has so it could fall within 200 and I just don't know. Checked since. It crosses over low at 125 hz and the KSW=10 sub also at 125.

I look at the freq response ratings for the speakers and the sub (typically measured +- 3DB) and set my sub to come into the rated range of the other speakers at a 5 to 10 value "overlap".

For example my RS-35s rate in at a low of 81 db +-3DB and on systems I have that use these for their surrounds I set the crossover at 90 on the Yamaha, 100 on the sub and then dial in sound as you describe...

Not sure if the OP's HTR series receiver has YPAQ but if it does it should set this pretty well for him. I tend to set the volume on the sub then by the YPAQ's setting not changing its volume level. With 4 Yamaha systems in the home I'm pretty good at dialing it to that point after the first YPAQ session gives it's readings so the second YPAQ session yields a zero manipulation on bass volume. Checked this as well and that model does not have the YPAQ auto calibration feature.

I also set the LFE out to "Both" but I have front speakers that support frequencies down into the 20s so it's transparent and not "boomy".

Again his model may go up to 200 but all the Klipsch subs I've worked with top out at 120 or less. Which is why I bought a Polk sub for my YSP-1000 up in the master bedroom. It did go absurdly high for a sub like up to 200 as I recall.

Main thing is to have a bit of frequency overlap so you aren't diverting material away from a capable source to an incapable one. And that +- rating usually is a steep drop off within a several hz range at the low end. An exact crossover match may have up to a 6DB (3 at the top of the range on the sub and 3 at the bottom of the other speaker) "hole" right at the crossover point which probably isn't noticeable to most people. However if you use the system for music as well as home theater having a small overlap is the way to go.

The speaker package the OP has is rated at a 125hz crossover on the bottom of the speakers and the top of the sub. He's pretty much stuck at that point as there is no overlap.

Don "Yamaha and Klipsch is a GREAT set up!" Bolton



Carl Spock said:


> You asked two questions. Let me do the second one first.
> 
> (1) You get more low bass at lower volume levels by turning it up. The problem is the human ear. We can't hear bass as well at lower levels. That's why older stereos had a Loudness button. These were designed to boost the bass for low level listening. Loudness compensation has gone away but the problem remains. Use your receiver's bass control to turn up the bottom end for low level listening. You also might want to tweak up the treble as we are also less sensitive to highs at lower volume levels but the bigger problem is in the bass. That you would have to turn up more.
> 
> Older Yamaha stereo receivers had a Variable Loudness Control for exactly this problem. When multi-channel home theater receivers came out, this knob went away. It was too expensive to adjust all the channels equally, or at least that is what I was told by Yamaha's management. It's too bad. Their Variable Loudness Control worked perfectly.
> 
> (2) There are three major controls on your subwoofer: volume, crossover and phase. You should get the first two close before you try to adjust the third. But even before that, we have to adjust your receiver. Go into its Sound Menu. Find its crossover settings and turn it up to 200 Hz. We don't want double crossover action. That will kill your phase response, slurring the bass. While you are in your receiver's menu, make sure the speaker sizes are all set to small and that the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) are only going to your subwoofer. You'll find this last adjustment in your menu under Bass Out.
> 
> Now you can start adjusting the subwoofer. With the sub's own crossover knob turned to 100 Hz, turn up the volume on the back of woofer until you can hear the bass well. Watch a movie or listen to music. Adjust the sub's volume until the bass seems about right. In other words, enough. To fine tune the volume and crossover levels, turn the two knobs on the back of your woofer opposite of each other. If you turn up the subwoofer level, turn down the crossover point. If you reduce the sub's volume, turn up the crossover. These adjustments will be small but it will allow you to get the bass just right.
> 
> Now set the phase control. You want to switch it so that you get the most bass. In some setups, you might not hear a lot of difference. That's OK. The difference can be subtle, too. I like switching it in the middle of a movie or a musical piece. That way I can hear the difference the best.
> 
> After getting the phase switch set correctly, you might have to go back and tweak the volume/crossover settings on the sub.
> 
> Lastly, you have a LFE control in the Sound Menu on your sub. If it seems like you get differing levels of bass on movies versus music or regular TV, you can use this control to compensate. The LFE control in the menu only affects the bass output on Dolby Digital sources like movies. Personally, I like setting up the subwoofer controls using music and with the receiver in stereo. I then use the LFE control to get the right amount of bass for movies.


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## Carl Spock

lugnutathome said:


> The Klipsch subs typically top out at at around 120 (at least my 4 Reference series subs do) and setting the crossover in the Yamaha at 200 would be diverting all material under 200 from the satellite speakers and fronts (unless he chooses "Both" on the fronts) to the sub which won't be capable of the extended range.


The 200 Hz crossover in the Yamaha is a low pass only. It only affects the sub output. I'll stand by my advice to set the receiver's crossover to that frequency. It will effectively eliminate it from the system.

The high pass crossover is accomplished by setting the speaker size to Small.

This receiver doesn't have YPAO.

And one point I thought of, rereading my post: In fine tuning your subwoofer's response, when you turn the crossover and volume controls opposite from each other, you may not turn them an equal amount. You may be listening to some music and say, this needs a lot more deep bass. Then turn the sub's volume control up as much as you think it needs. But remember, and this is the key, turn down the crossover point, too, not as much, but at least some. I don't know why nobody teaches this technique; maybe I discovered it myself. But it works very well, at least for me.


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## lugnutathome

In the case of the OPs speakers all would be defined as "Small" in my parlance requiring the sub for all material below the set crossover point.

From the RX-V3800 manual... This text is also a copy of the RX-V2500, -V1600, -V2600, and -Z11 systems I've had or still use. Yamaha's HTR series is the same component sets with a different control panel look and the specs are rated on a different scale. Fundamentally they are the same given comparable final power outputs and featuresets. They have differing distribution channels.

The crossover sets BOTH LFE channel and low frequency destination for speakers defined as small

Low-frequency signals output
*1 Output(s) the low-frequency signals of the front channels and
other speakers set to "Small" or "None".
*2 Always output the low-frequency signals of the front
channels.
*3 Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to
"Large".
*4 Outputs the low-frequency signals of the speakers set to
"Small" or "None".

Bass Cross Over (Bass cross over)
Use this feature to select the crossover frequency of all the
speakers set to "Small" or to "None" in "Speaker Set" (see
pages 91 and 92). All frequencies below the selected
frequency will be sent to the subwoofer or to the speakers
set to "Large" in "Speaker Set" (see pages 91 and 92).
Choices: 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 90Hz, 100Hz, 110Hz,
120Hz, 160Hz, 200Hz

Don "Sad that I have the manuals in pdf on my work desktop isn't it?:grin:" Bolton



Carl Spock said:


> The 200 Hz crossover in the Yamaha is a low pass only. It only affects the sub output. I'll stand by my advice to set the receiver's crossover to that frequency. It will effectively eliminate it from the system.
> 
> The high pass crossover is accomplished by setting the speaker size to Small.
> 
> This receiver doesn't have YPAO.
> 
> And one point I thought of, rereading my post: In fine tuning your subwoofer's response, when you turn the crossover and volume controls opposite from each other, you may not turn them an equal amount. You may be listening to some music and say, this needs a lot more deep bass. Then turn the sub's volume control up as much as you think it needs. But remember, and this is the key, turn down the crossover point, too, not as much, but at least some. I don't know why nobody teaches this technique; maybe I discovered it myself. But it works very well, at least for me.


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## Carl Spock

I have no problem sending the LFE to the mains, too. The OP should certainly listen to it both ways and keep it the way he likes. I personally try not to put deep bass into small woofers but that's a bias, not reality. Reality is whatever the guy likes.

It's a frickin' toy. A big black one with a confusing remote, but still a toy. Play with it.


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## lugnutathome

Now that's the best advice yet

Don "if it smokes, flames, or explodes, back it down a click and try again" Bolton


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## Rikinky

Thanks guys for the advice. Klipsh website suggests setting my reciever to 120 on crossover and the knob on my sub all the way to the left at 120 which cancels out the crossover on the sub and only uses the reciever and all speakers set to small and bass out sub.


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