# Dish Drops Fisher Stations



## Renard (Jun 21, 2007)

I just saw it on Komo 4, it seems that Dish customers will lose Komo 4 in Seattle area and ABC broadcast on december 17 at 11pm. The VP mentioned that not agreement has been reached so far. It sucks for Dish customers 

http://www.komonews.com/about/36233819.html

Sorry if it has already been posted


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## skihoodoo (Oct 17, 2008)

looks like it is time for dish to be in a program despute with Fisher Communications.
KATU (2) (ABC) Portland, OR just announced that after today (DEC 17) that if a new agreement is not reached ch 2 will not be on dish

http://www.katu.com/about/36310734.html


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## DNSFSS (Apr 4, 2008)

skihoodoo said:


> looks like it is time for dish to be in a program despute with Fisher Communications.
> KATU (2) (ABC) Portland, OR just announced that after today (DEC 17) that if a new agreement is not reached ch 2 will not be on dish
> 
> http://www.katu.com/about/36310734.html


So I wonder how this negotiation is OUR (the consumer's) problem. It's not. But they make it our problem. The same with KCPQ HD...how long did it take to get that, because of "contract negotiations"? So basically because KOMO thinks that E* should pay some "portion", they're going to remove it from our systems? W.T.F.

This is completely ludicrous. E* will lose so many subs in the Seattle DMA because of this. (Many of us live too far away to receive the transmissions "free over the air") If I didn't work for 'em, I'd be gone and would not pay a disconnect fee...(E* would be offering me a service that they cannot provide...kind of like the 129 satellite, but that's a different thread )


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Uplink Activity shows several "LTD" (local take down?) channels added this evening.


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## garskiff (Dec 18, 2008)

DNSFSS said:


> So I wonder how this negotiation is OUR (the consumer's) problem. It's not. But they make it our problem. The same with KCPQ HD...how long did it take to get that, because of "contract negotiations"? So basically because KOMO thinks that E* should pay some "portion", they're going to remove it from our systems? W.T.F.
> 
> This is completely ludicrous. E* will lose so many subs in the Seattle DMA because of this. (Many of us live too far away to receive the transmissions "free over the air") If I didn't work for 'em, I'd be gone and would not pay a disconnect fee...(E* would be offering me a service that they cannot provide...kind of like the 129 satellite, but that's a different thread )


As much as I like the 722, they are taking away one of my favorite stations. I'm afraid I will have to find a way to cancel my contract with dish and find someone who can supply what I want.

Hope I can make a case of Dish not living up to their obligations


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## ElJefe (Jun 6, 2002)

KOMO is gone now, E* didn't wait until 11:01 PM.

KUNS was suddenly switched to Univision east.


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## Kevin1514 (Aug 24, 2008)

Yep, no more KOMO until a resolution is reached. KING is better anyways.


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## Rondo1 (Jan 4, 2003)

This had better get resolved FAST. I've put up with Dish and their BS disputes with other channels, but now they're just getting ridiculous. Sure its a local channel, but at this time of bad weather, I want access to my KOMO news. And do I get a discount on the LOCAL CHANNEL package that I currently pay for? So no ABC News (national) or Nightline. This sucks.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

ElJefe said:


> KOMO is gone now, E* didn't wait until 11:01 PM.
> 
> KUNS was suddenly switched to Univision east.


They did not have a contract to carry it at 11:01 PM


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## PokerJoker (Apr 12, 2008)

Yep, Dish is right now (11:30 PM PST) running a loop of Eric Sahl presenting E*'s point of view (basically, how Fisher is a bunch of unreasonable extortionists) on the KOMO satellite channels SD & HD (004-00, 6414, 8610). They're really laying it on thick, urging viewers to contact KOMO advertisers; the station manager; and urging people to watch "other alternative local programming".

Right now, I still have OTA reception on 004-01 (this is on a 622 box). However, my neighbor tells me that on his box, Dish has apparently caused his 622 to not be able to tune the OTA signal. 

I hope these idiots figure it out real soon. And I refer to both sides when I say that.

Keith
temporarily in Seattle


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## Joe Capitano (Aug 13, 2002)

JohnH said:


> They did not have a contract to carry it at 11:01 PM


You missed his point. KOMO was actually removed four minutes before the contract ran out. Saw it happen.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

garskiff said:


> As much as I like the 722, they are taking away one of my favorite stations. I'm afraid I will have to find a way to cancel my contract with dish and find someone who can supply what I want.
> 
> Hope I can make a case of Dish not living up to their obligations


Of course, you would be willing to pay whatever increase Fisher requested. That is times 2 in Seattle.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Joe Capitano said:


> You missed his point. KOMO was actually removed four minutes before the contract ran out. Saw it happen.


I did not miss anything. I know what time the activity occurred. His statement was they did not wait until after the contract ran out.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Looks like I have to go to my neighbors house to watch Lost? WTF? Morons on both sides.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

garskiff said:


> As much as I like the 722, they are taking away one of my favorite stations. I'm afraid I will have to find a way to cancel my contract with dish and find someone who can supply what I want.
> 
> Hope I can make a case of Dish not living up to their obligations


you can cancel your contract, but it will cost you. Dish is living up to everything stated in their contract with you.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

JohnH said:


> Of course, you would be willing to pay whatever increase Fisher requested. That is times 2 in Seattle.


It seems whenever local stations go to Dish looking for a bigger hand out and then don't get it and then refuse Dish the right to retransmit their signal (sorta seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but whatever) we get all sorts of (usually new) posters here showing up to say something along the lines of "dish better fix this....blah, blah, blah.....dish owes me a discount.....blah, blah, blah....this means I should be allowed a get out of my contract for free card.....blah, blah, blah....it's all Dish's fault that i'm missing my favorite shows....blah, blah, blah". Did I get it about right? Anyway here's an idea, Dish should set up two separate companies for it's customers. Company one (Dish 1) would be for people who are willing to pay whatever it takes to get their favorite stations on Dish, for these people whenever a station shows up wanting more money Dish just automatically pays the increase and passes the cost on to them, after all they don't care about the increased cost, what's important is that their favorite shows never get interrupted. For the second company (Dish2) the billing stays pretty much the way it is now and sometimes we have to put up with a channel going missing in exchange for just not automatically rolling over and paying more every time a channel owning company decides they think they deserve a raise. Which company would you want to subscribe to and which do you think would be out of business first?


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Dish Network said it removed TV stations owned by Fisher Communications Inc. from its satellite service after their retransmission consent agreement expired on Dec. 17. Fisher has stations in Bakersfield, Calif.; Boise, Idaho; Eugene, Ore.; Idaho Falls, Idaho; Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; and Yakima, Wash.

*Full Story*


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

The NFL playoffs are on what carrier this year?


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

calgary2800 said:


> The NFL playoffs are on what carrier this year?


Divided amongst NBC, FOX and CBS. ABC/ESPN doesn't have any of the games.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

Ya know, I'm with Dish on this one, as I have been in the past. Most of my viewing is on premium stations anyhow, but even without, you can catch a lot of the ABC programming on the web or via NetFlix.

Fisher (KOMO in Seattle) is angling to be paid as a premium network despite the advertisements and despite having benefitted from Must Carry for years (on cable.) If they lose viewers, it costs them their current carriage fee (which was already above Must Carry) plus advertising fees (which are based on rating), plus prestige (also based on ratings.)

Give it two weeks and I'd bet Fisher backs down. They can't afford to lose advertising revenue. See their financial post here; they've already been losing ad revenue despite being proud of increasing ratings... which they're putting at risk. Same-station revenue was *down* despite benefitting from a $4M Q3 increase in political revenue compared to the previous year.

Some posters here do echo the regular refrain that "Dish better bring this back or I'm leaving this loser network". Before you say that again, please include the following answer in your post:

For what? Comcast? Less user-friendly, poorer service? Not available everywhere and pretty pricey? (My recent GF had comcast HD. Uggah!)
When? Do you solemnly promise that, if in three days (example), this dispute is on-going, you will switch and we will never hear from you again? Or are you just a blowhard?

Just adding some facts and perspective, something the more emotional posters here tend to forget to factor in.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tsmacro said:


> Anyway here's an idea, Dish should set up two separate companies for it's customers. Company one (Dish 1) would be for people who are willing to pay whatever it takes to get their favorite stations on Dish, for these people whenever a station shows up wanting more money Dish just automatically pays the increase and passes the cost on to them, after all they don't care about the increased cost, what's important is that their favorite shows never get interrupted.


Can we call that company DirecTV? 


> Which company would you want to subscribe to and which do you think would be out of business first?


I don't believe either company (or style of operation) is going out of business.

The first style has to figure out how to pass the costs along without appearing to be the high cost company. One way of doing that is to charge all of your customers more money, either by not offering low price packages or by selling more high margin content to make up the difference.

The second style company has to combat the PR issues (especially when there is a first style competitor that isn't hypothetical). But they are making money ... which means even if their customers are ticked they are not going out of business.

Remember - your question wasn't customer satisfaction, it was survival. Who was going out of business first. If it was just a popularity contest both company styles would lose.

In the grand scheme of things locals are important but the other locals in the affected markets are still on the air and the 97% or 98% of DISH customers who have locals available can still get their channels. Chicken little can say that the next market dispute could be in your market, but the loss of a local broadcaster really isn't the end of the world for a company with millions of other satisfied customers.

Back to the issue at hand ... Fisher wants an 80%+ increase for several of those stations. That is a lot of cash. DISH has offered the highest rate they are paying anyone in the nation (risky as others being paid less will likely want more money when their contracts expire). I don't expect Fisher to get an 80%+ increase.

I expect that in a couple of days Eric's video will no longer be seen and the stations will return. There have been few long term disputes. Most of the time a deal can be struck soon after expiration. Why not the day before is a good question. With this shutdown we're not seeing the "we offered DISH an extension" language that we saw with Young and other broadcasters. With the 80%+ requested increase it appears Fisher is the one playing hardball.


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## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

Dish Network in yet another programming dispute....go figure


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

We are going to see a lot of this since ad revenue is falling. It seems that their only way to get additional revenue is to hold Dish (and Directv, because the same thing will happen when those contracts expire) hostage to their demands. This is just the tip of a very big iceberg.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

PokerJoker said:


> Yep, Dish is right now (11:30 PM PST) running a loop of Eric Sahl presenting E*'s point of view (basically, how Fisher is a bunch of unreasonable extortionists) on the KOMO satellite channels SD & HD (004-00, 6414, 8610). They're really laying it on thick, urging viewers to contact KOMO advertisers; the station manager; and urging people to watch "other alternative local programming".
> 
> Right now, I still have OTA reception on 004-01 (this is on a 622 box). However, my neighbor tells me that on his box, Dish has apparently caused his 622 to not be able to tune the OTA signal.
> 
> ...


He might have to rescan his locals ota. The channel being off of dish doesnt affect the ota. Here in Baton rouge our abc affililate has been off dish since march, but it comes in ota thru dish no problem. Also here in Baton rouge, fox, nbc, and cw are saying they will be off of dish 1-1-09 if dish doesnt pay their "extortion fee". If that is the case, dish would only have cbs (in sd only ) and people in baton rouge would cancel in droves, especially with Directv and cox now offering HD locals


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## judilynn (Dec 18, 2008)

Rondo1 said:


> This had better get resolved FAST. I've put up with Dish and their BS disputes with other channels, but now they're just getting ridiculous. Sure its a local channel, but at this time of bad weather, I want access to my KOMO news. And do I get a discount on the LOCAL CHANNEL package that I currently pay for? So no ABC News (national) or Nightline. This sucks.


I called this morning to complain and although I'm still without ABC I managed to get a $5 discount for three months. If enough of us call perhaps they will find a way to settle with Fisher. Otherwise they have lost me as a long time customer!


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Local packages will automatically be prorated for any channels lost. Now, you might be able to call and gripe and get more, but E* is not going to charge you for what you are not getting. These local deputes usually clear up in a matter of days. Be patient, I promise you that our monthly rates are cheaper than the other guys because of these disputes.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

judilynn said:


> If enough of us call perhaps they will find a way to settle with Fisher. Otherwise they have lost me as a long time customer!


:welcome_s another new poster!

DISH will work it out with Fisher but based on the numbers it appears Fisher needs to settle. Asking for an 80% increase (or more) isn't cool.


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## djpadz (Aug 4, 2004)

judilynn said:


> I called this morning to complain and although I'm still without ABC I managed to get a $5 discount for three months. If enough of us call perhaps they will find a way to settle with Fisher. Otherwise they have lost me as a long time customer!


Yet another reason I'm glad I dumped E* this past summer. Frankly, I don't care what it costs; I view television in much the same way I view electricity, water, or Internet. Charge me what's appropriate, and I'll pay it, until the value proposition diminishes, at which point I won't. It seems like E* is trying to decide for its customers where that point exists.

Having said that, I've gotta say that my experiences with D* have been a hundred times better than with E*. I think D* realized that the way to make money is to build loyalty among your customer base through excellent customer service, rather than trying to keep costs low by dumping blocks of channels every December.

I'm not looking to start a E* vs. D* flame war; I'm sure that people have had good and bad experiences with both; I'm just saying, as someone who's had both, I'm sorry I didn't switch to D* sooner.

btw- In Seattle, we saw a couple of freezes during Pushing Daisies while they switched to the SD feed (even though they upconverted it to 1080i) to do the "bye bye Dish customers" crawl. Anybody else get that in other markets?


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## wsuladesigner (Jun 10, 2008)

As much as I want to point the finger at both parties, I want to side with DISH on this one as well. I think I was one show on KOMO, which I easily watch online. Just this week I have switched to KING for news. For years I was a loyal KOMO watcher.

I hope its resolved soon. I live about 40 miles south of Seattle, and I can only get Q13 via OTA on a good day. 

All I know is that I won't hold my breathe.


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## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

Just in case anyone wonders...yes KIMA in Yakima went off at about midnight.

Not a big deal to me though, as soon as the Fox station starts broadcasting digital into the Kittitas valley I'm cancelling locals anyhow


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## daveflave (Oct 9, 2007)

djpadz said:


> Yet another reason I'm glad I dumped E* this past summer. Frankly, I don't care what it costs; I view television in much the same way I view electricity, water, or Internet. Charge me what's appropriate, and I'll pay it, until the value proposition diminishes, at which point I won't. It seems like E* is trying to decide for its customers where that point exists.
> 
> Having said that, I've gotta say that my experiences with D* have been a hundred times better than with E*. I think D* realized that the way to make money is to build loyalty among your customer base through excellent customer service, rather than trying to keep costs low by dumping blocks of channels every December.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with you djpadz. I find it odd that you view television the same way as electricity, water or Internet. Two of your examples are monopolies which I bet if they were to be raised 80% you would throw a fit. Internet is not a monopoly and one can see many different options available with many different rates and discounts being offered. I'm glad to have E* negotiating on behalf of their customers for reasonable increases instead of automatically passing that onto the customer. I know of no business in this economy raising rate by 80% year over year. I believe that if D*, E* or Cable raised its rates at this level everyone would be looking at alternatives. I only wish I had a company or representative negotiating on my behalf for my electric or water prices instead of a public commission that automaticly approve all increases.

P.S. PSE announced yesterday that it has broken its 10 year records for power and natural gas on Monday due to the record low temperatures. Good for them/Bad for us.


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## djpadz (Aug 4, 2004)

daveflave said:


> I have to disagree with you djpadz. I find it odd that you view television the same way as electricity, water or Internet. Two of your examples are monopolies which I bet if they were to be raised 80% you would throw a fit. Internet is not a monopoly and one can see many different options available with many different rates and discounts being offered.


Point well taken, but I think you missed my meaning... I realize that I don't have a choice of carriers when it comes to electricity or water; however, what I meant was that I'll pay whatever I have to pay, in order to be guaranteed a certain level of service. If water or power went up 80% suddenly, I'd want to know why, but I'd pay it, because there's no alternative. As pertains to non-monopolistic utilities, like TV and Internet, I'd rather pay more, and not have to wonder which stations are going to go away this December (I was with E* for seven years, and went through a number of December dropouts), than have the carrier sacrifice service, in order to curtail a $3/month rate hike.



daveflave said:


> I'm glad to have E* negotiating on behalf of their customers for reasonable increases instead of automatically passing that onto the customer. I know of no business in this economy raising rate by 80% year over year.


I agree, but, somehow D* manages to renegotiate these carriage contracts well in advance, so that we don't have channel blocks disappear every year. It just seems to me that these contract renegotiations catch E* by surprise every year. I understand what you're saying about having E* negotiate for reasonable increases, but it seems like those negotiations should start a lot sooner, so the customers aren't penalized.



daveflave said:


> I believe that if D*, E* or Cable raised its rates at this level everyone would be looking at alternatives. I only wish I had a company or representative negotiating on my behalf for my electric or water prices instead of a public commission that automaticly approve all increases.


All I can say to that is, elect a governor who will appoint the right people to the PUC. The WUTC commissioners are appointed by the governor for six-year terms.



daveflave said:


> P.S. PSE announced yesterday that it has broken its 10 year records for power and natural gas on Monday due to the record low temperatures. Good for them/Bad for us.


Wow. Gonna be a pricey winter!


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

ElJefe said:


> KOMO is gone now, E* didn't wait until 11:01 PM.
> 
> KUNS was suddenly switched to Univision east.


Well they may have actually run past 11:01pm. Dish is based in Denver 1hr ahead.  
2yrs ago,over in Spokane, the local Cable companies fought with Fox, and dropped Fox during the football season. Talk about some pissed off people. Took over 8months for Fox to be carried again on the Cable companies. I sure hope for your sake it doesn't take that long.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

djpadz said:


> I agree, but, somehow D* manages to renegotiate these carriage contracts well in advance, so that we don't have channel blocks disappear every year.


I'm not sure that we know what DirecTV does. Sure, there aren't as many publicised "spats", but that could mean they keep them quieter OR perhaps DirecTV doesn't negotiate at all, but just agrees to regular increases. After all, look at what they pay to keep NFL Sunday Ticket as an exclusive!

For that matter, DirecTV was operating for a while with deep-pockets being owned by FOX... we'll have to see what new ownership changes in the future. There have already been whispers (in the DirecTV forums) of cost-cutting/freezing mechanisms happening at DirecTV.


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## djpadz (Aug 4, 2004)

HDMe said:


> I'm not sure that we know what DirecTV does. Sure, there aren't as many publicised "spats", but that could mean they keep them quieter OR perhaps DirecTV doesn't negotiate at all, but just agrees to regular increases. After all, look at what they pay to keep NFL Sunday Ticket as an exclusive!


True, but frankly, even if they are having difficulties with the carriers, I really don't want to know about it, unless/until it affects my programming. Seems like E* puts on a display every year to try to embarrass the carriers into dropping their prices. It's just bad PR. I mean, each time they do this, some of their customers are going to cheer because E* is negotiating on their behalf, but a lot of them are going to look over the fence to D* and say, "you know, they have all of their locals/Turner stations/etc."

At best, it's a risky strategy.


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## chewey (Jul 28, 2004)

When is Dish going to get the Salt Lake City ABC station in HD?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

djpadz said:


> True, but frankly, even if they are having difficulties with the carriers, I really don't want to know about it, unless/until it affects my programming. Seems like E* puts on a display every year to try to embarrass the carriers into dropping their prices. It's just bad PR. I mean, each time they do this, some of their customers are going to cheer because E* is negotiating on their behalf, but a lot of them are going to look over the fence to D* and say, "you know, they have all of their locals/Turner stations/etc."
> 
> At best, it's a risky strategy.


Most of the negotiations ARE done "out of sight" from the usual subscriber. It's when the contract has expired and a new agreement hasn't been reached (with an extension on the old) that we see these takedowns.

Dish is NOT afraid to go "toe-to-toe" with content providers to get a deal they think is fair. If that means temporary takedowns - so be it . If you don't like their way of doing business like this - feel free to take your business to another provider.


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## skihoodoo (Oct 17, 2008)

looks like fisher is now suing dish 
Fisher Communications*Sues Dish For Breach-of-Contract After Station Drops* - 12/18/2008 2:33:00 PM - Multichannel News


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

garn9173 said:
 

> Dish Network in yet another programming dispute....go figure


Another greedy tv station....go figure


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

skihoodoo said:


> looks like fisher is now suing dish
> Fisher Communications*Sues Dish For Breach-of-Contract After Station Drops* - 12/18/2008 2:33:00 PM - Multichannel News


Looks like Fisher is stretching a bit.

As National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) President Kyle McSlarrow (quoted on this thread) warned Congress and the public last September when asking for a moratorium on some 5000 retransmission contract expirations:


> "...Broadcasters increasingly want more money for "retrans," making the negotiations more difficult.
> 
> "With the...broadcasting side...looking for a quick buck as opposed to the long-term view,...there's going to be more tension."


Welcome to "tension."


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Asking for an 80% increase (or more) isn't cool.


I guess to make a difference to the end user, we would have to ask 80% of what.

If it is an 80% increase over 50 cents/per sub, or 80% over $2/sub - it might make a difference.

Stating an 80% increase sure sounds like a lot, but I would like to know the actual cost per sub.

Anyway, figures lie and liars figure.


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## jmpfaff (Dec 13, 2004)

cariera said:


> I guess to make a difference to the end user, we would have to ask 80% of what.
> 
> If it is an 80% increase over 50 cents/per sub, or 80% over $2/sub - it might make a difference.
> 
> ...


The price per each specific Fisher channel doesn't matter. If every local in the country demanded an 80% increase...the $5 we pay for locals would increase by 80% to $9 per month.

And if the national cable/satellite channels all demanded an 80% increase......I wouldn't have Satellite any more :nono2:


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## TP715 (Jan 15, 2007)

I got a dumb question: why should locals get any money at all for retrans? Don't they want to increase their viewership so they can charge more for advertising? Don't they send out the signal over the air for free?

But then I'm kinda simple minded. I remember when cable (and by reference, satellite) didn't have advertising. That's why you paid. Now I pay a *lot*, and every single channel is approximately 1/3 advertising.


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## treesyjo (Aug 5, 2008)

There is a very interesting story posted on the KVAL (CBS for Eugene, OR) website that shows correspondence between Charlie Ergen and Colleen Brown (CEO Fisher Comm).

http://www.kval.com/about/36312604.html


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm with dish on this one. Those stations are free OTA stations. Why are they asking for any money at all? You'd think they'd want dish and everyone else broadcasting their signal.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Congress let the camel's nose under the tent, now broadcasters are squeezing everyone for all the cash they can get.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

daveflave said:


> ... I only wish I had a company or representative negotiating on my behalf for my electric or water prices instead of a public commission that automaticly approve all increases. ...


If you live in the City of Seattle, utility rates are proposed by the Mayor and adopted by the City Council, but not until the proposed rates are independently reviewed. No elected official likes to raise rates. Both the Mayor and Council do what they can to keep rates as low as prudently possible. Been that was in Seattle since I can remember.

John


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

judilynn said:


> I called this morning to complain and although I'm still without ABC I managed to get a $5 discount for three months. If enough of us call perhaps they will find a way to settle with Fisher. Otherwise they have lost me as a long time customer!


You sound like Dish is the sole bad guy here. Usually in these cases it's a local station owner who thinks the carriage agreement is a way to line his pockets. Expect to see many more such disputes in the next year. With the economy on the skids the locals stations are taking a big hit in their advertising revenue. They'll try to get some of it back by gouging on carriage agreements.

Here's an alternatiive idea: If you don't want Dish to be a hard negotiator, let's have them just pay whatever the locals request. Then they can bill customers in those DMAs for the actual cost of their local service. Do you really want that?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

jmpfaff said:


> If every local in the country demanded an 80% increase...the $5 we pay for locals would increase by 80% to $9 per month.


That assumes that the price that Dish charges for locals is determined solely by the programming fees that it pays. That assumption is very unlikely to be valid.

What _is_ 100% certain is that programming fee increases hurt Dish's bottom line. And Dish hates it when that happens.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

FTA Michael said:


> What _is_ 100% certain is that programming fee increases hurt Dish's bottom line. And Dish hates it when that happens.


Of course. Any business does. They are, after all, in the business of making money.


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

I know here in the Topeka market the Gray Television Station was in a contract dispute with COX Cable in Topeka, and that was pretty nasty. They would scroll advertisements for Dish Network and DirecTV on a crawl on the screen telling all the Cox Cable subscribers to call and switch providers. It was finally settled at the last minute.

Now Gray Television is in a dispute with almost EVERY other cable company in the DMA, and they're using the same tactic.

http://www.wibw.com/faircommunication


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## jbrooks987 (Jun 5, 2004)

Saw the same thing from their Wichita station the other day, showing contract disputes with 3 or 4 cable systems in my area. I suspect that Dish will have the same problem when its contract is up for renewal. Checked the Gray Television web site, and it's stock price is in the tank (but about 50 percent up since they bought back half of their shares....)


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

Dish and Grey just signed a new contract, and that is why WIBW-HD and WOWT-HD, and KOLN-HD were uplinked last week.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

As well as WNDU-HD ... the only available HD in the South Bend market. Another Gray station.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I'll throw in my 2 cents as well. I, like a lot of others, am with Dish, and I have personally contacted my local Fisher channel, KOMO to let them know. I don't watch a ton of local news, but when I do in the past it's been KOMO, going forward, unless Dish and Fisher can resolve this, that won't be the case, even though I can pick it up OTA.

This issue sucks almost as much for any of us with OTA because we've lost guide info as well and can't use our Name Based Timers.

KOMO has the same correspondence posted on their website as well, based on this and the other post about a lawsuit I think we're in for an ugly drawn out battle. I'm just glad the network programming sucks on ABC, I think the only show I watch on there with any regularity is Lost.

KOMO link to e-mails between Dish and Fisher: http://www.komonews.com/about/36233819.html


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## Calvin Jones (Aug 1, 2008)

So few people watch the Fisher owned CBS affiliates in Boise they should be paying Dish to carry their crappy channel.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

The hell with it all, only show on ABC I ever watch is Lost. I'd be better off just watching the Blu Ray version all at once when the new season is over.


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## rbonzer (May 13, 2002)

Rob Glasser said:


> This issue sucks almost as much for any of us with OTA because we've lost guide info as well and can't use our *Name Based Timers*.


I thought this was true, but somehow it seems to be working. I replaced my wife's timer for General Hospital to the OTA channel, and even though the guide shows the dispute message, it still is recording at the correct times. It must be doing something tricky.


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## rbonzer (May 13, 2002)

treesyjo said:


> There is a very interesting story posted on the KVAL (CBS for Eugene, OR) website that shows correspondence between Charlie Ergen and Colleen Brown (CEO Fisher Comm).
> 
> http://www.kval.com/about/36312604.html


What I like is at the bottom of the article, they show channel prices for 2006, as if to show that their request is reasonable, but fail to tell us what price they are asking for. Are they asking for ESPN type money? MSNBC money? Who knows.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

rbonzer said:


> I thought this was true, but somehow it seems to be working. I replaced my wife's timer for General Hospital to the OTA channel, and even though the guide shows the dispute message, it still is recording at the correct times. It must be doing something tricky.


Interesting, I'll have to check that out.


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## rickz (Mar 18, 2003)

> I'm just glad the network programming sucks on ABC, I think the only show I watch on there with any regularity is Lost.


I find comments like this quite humorous. If any women were on this forum, they might disagree with you.

As with you, _Lost_ is one of the few big-three network shows I watch with obession... err... regularity (_The Office_ on NBC is one other). I avoid the soapy and quirky ABC dramas like _DH_, _B&S_, _GA_, _PP_, _PD_, _DSM,_ and others, but my wife and four daughters, and son to a lesser extent, enjoy these shows.

Until KATU returns to the dish - and _it will_ - the girls in my home will be watching it OTA and looking up the listings the old-fashioned way - in the TV guide or on Yahoo.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

LOL, good point. There are a number of night time soap type shows that my wife watches. I'll have to work on setting them up to record.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Well, I tried calling KOMO today, encountered a message telling me to punch 1 for information about the Dish dispute and got dumped out of their system right after that! Nice touch. 

Send e-mails to both E* and KOMO yesterday, but no response. I've got some shopping to do in the downtown area on Monday (assuming the snow isn't too bad) and may just drop by and pay them a visit.

At least I've got OTA reception.

John


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Instead of writing the station and Dish Network, how about writing your grievance to your congresscritter and Senator? As far as I can see, the local station have demanded - and received - a monopoly on local station carriage.

By law, the DBS providers cannot provide you with either DNS alternative or even stations that are available in neighboring markets. Yet, some stations even play games with the schedule by substituting their own programming instead of the network programming. And, a majority of programming isn't locally-produced content, but rather network and syndicated programming.

Do you know who your representatives are? No? Then see Project Vote Smart and enter in your zip code.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Got to love E*'s negotiating tactics... or lack there of.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Calvin Jones said:


> So few people watch the Fisher owned CBS affiliates in Boise they should be paying Dish to carry their crappy channel.


Not hard to get the locals in most areas in Boise with an antenna. I hooked one up when I moved in 2 years ago, used it for 2 weeks before the Dish was installed. Got most channels on digital except channel 2 (CBS).


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

braven said:


> Got to love E*'s negotiating tactics... or lack there of.


That sounded pointless and naive. How little do you understand about Dish's business plan and Fisher's? In the Puget Sound area, KOMO has probably lost a (low) double-digit percentage of their viewership, which is a huge amount in terms of competitive ratings and corresponding ad revenue. Some of that viewership they'll never get back, because let's face it, T.V. news is essentially a commodity.

Meanwhile the vast majority of Dish subscribers in the area probably didn't even notice. They have other news options and may have Dish specifically to AVOID KOMO news... i.e. to get Fox or CNN. There may even be a subscriber who wanted MS-NBC, but that's probably stretching it. Dish users have many other channels, and unless they're addicted to an ABC program that is still in first runs over the holiday period (most shows are on hiatus), they won't care. But guess what... ABC doesn't even appear in the top ten in ANY category! FOX did better than ABC last week, and the only reason ABC made the top 20 was a Charlie Brown Christmas!

Fisher (KOMO) needs Dish a lot more than Dish needs Fisher.

Maybe you should do a bit of research before you vent uneducated pseudo-sarcasm, huh?


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

This whole event is a crock. I've contacted KATU and they would have you believe that they are being treated so unfairly by Dish.  They strongly feel that their demands of an 82% increase is reasonable. 

There is also a claim apparently of Dish owing Fisher for some sister stations and refusing to pay. What is this all about? I get the feeling there is truth to this, so why doesn't Dish simply pay this and remove this from the discussion. It's hard for me to bash Fisher Communications for this.

Then we can concentrate on the 82% argument. But be aware if Dish settles for more then our rates will go up!!!

Here in Portland does anyone know of any good installers of a good HDTV antenna? I can't seem to find anyone. I say to heck with all of them, I will just get locals over the air with an antenna and save the $5 a month or whatever it is. Then KATU will get zip. Those greedy *******s will seal their own fate if they continue the greed.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

For those of you who live in the affected by this and want to do something about it. Contact the companies and businesses that spend money on these channels. They are the ones that can put the pressure on Fisher or whichever channels are holding these channels off Dish.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

JM Anthony said:


> Well, I tried calling KOMO today, encountered a message telling me to punch 1 for information about the Dish dispute and got dumped out of their system right after that! Nice touch.
> 
> Send e-mails to both E* and KOMO yesterday, but no response. ...


Ditto here as well.


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

Between this and some of the shenanigans LIN is pulling, I wonder if we're seeing the beginning of the end of "free" advertiser-supported TV. I wonder how long it will be until they start trying to turn off their OTA signals so the "freeloaders" can't watch without paying, and force everyone to use cable or satellite where they can charge for the use of their signal.


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## rgrgrg (Nov 9, 2008)

i hope fisher and dish can get this resolved!


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

rgrgrg said:


> i hope fisher and dish can get this resolved!


http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/schedule

Only 2 Bowl games will be on ABC they are the Rose Bowl, and Capital One Bowl.
All others are on Fox or ESPN. Nice to know that ESPN will be doing this starting next yr. Rosebowl is Tradition no matter what, and could careless about the Capital One Bowl.
http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/schedule


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## vampirefish (Oct 19, 2004)

I tuned in my OTA and now am receiving KOMO that way. Only thing sucks is that the guide displays the same thing that Dish is showing (the message). Oh well.. like others we'll only really miss Lost. Hopefully by then it will be resolved.. or I'll just watch it this way.


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## harmil2 (Nov 22, 2003)

I am using the above abc sight until this issue is resolved between Fischer and Dish. Just click on episodes, download their abc movie player (first time only), chose streaming HD or SD (best? probably depends on your internet speed, graphics card, and whether you have a wide screen monitor), and at least you can keep up with your favorite shows.

If you have dvi or hdmi output on your graphics card you should be able to hook it up to your hdtv with correct video and audio cable. I have cable ordered from www.monoprice.com. Otherwise the family can huddle around the pc monitor and enjoy the shows. Kind of like the 50's, but much better picture. Fox also has an excellent similar site but CBS and NBC aren't as good. I watch on a 22" widescreen from an nvidia 9800gt video card and the hdtv quality is great. Just sit close and a hi rez pc monitor doesn't seem all that small. This is a work around, and I would much prefer Dish and Fischer get this settled.

Wish I lived where ota signal is available then I would just drop all my locals from Dish.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Per the Seattle times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008528477_webfisherco16.html

Brown earned $519K in regular salary plus $609K in other incentives.

She has volunteered to take a 10% pay cut this year from her regular salary. It's gamesmanship.

She is one greedy and integrity challenged person. Reminds you of Scrooge counting his cash at Christmas.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

It seems that I have found the email addresses for the top three execs at Fisher Communications with very little effort here on the internet. I won't post them here because I have believe that violates this board's policy.

But you too can use Google and do a simple search with their name and Fisher Communications and email and find it yourself. You can find out the execs names at Fisher's corporate website: www.fsci.com

We need to turn the heat up on this greed.

Fisher is attempting to permanently change the pricing model. Fisher wants to be compensated in the same manner as a CABLE CHANNEL rather than as a broadcast channel. We are pawns in that game.

I do expect our Congressional delegations in Oregon, Washington, California to act as well. If Congress can hold hearings regarding the NFL Network and access to the Giants - Patriots game, surely they can act on this.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

I still say put the heat on the sponsors and advertisers of Fisher's channels


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## TP715 (Jan 15, 2007)

Slamminc11 said:


> I still say put the heat on the sponsors and advertisers of Fisher's channels


I'm curious. When a satellite or cable company drops a channel in these kinds of disputes, how fast does that channels official viewership numbers drop? In other words, how fast does it affect their advertising rates? Do they just keep charging advertisers like they still had all those viewers eyeballs? I know if I were an advertiser I would ask for a prorated rebate for prepaid ads.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

TP715 said:


> I'm curious. When a satellite or cable company drops a channel in these kinds of disputes, how fast does that channels official viewership numbers drop? In other words, how fast does it affect their advertising rates? Do they just keep charging advertisers like they still had all those viewers eyeballs? I know if I were an advertiser I would ask for a prorated rebate for prepaid ads.


It depends on the contract but it's often worse than that for the station if the ratings drop is significant; there's often a minimum rating clause. If that isn't met, the station may have to pony up additional ad space. That's not quite the same as a rebate - it's space the station can't sell to someone else rather than money they must give back - but the long-term impact is the same: lower revenues.

Even if there's no clause, the ad sales team will probably wind up cutting a sweeter deal to make it up to the repeat (which is most of them) customers.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

which is why pressure from the advertisers and sponsors and making them aware is important!


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

James Long said:


> As well as WNDU-HD ... the only available HD in the South Bend market. Another Gray station.


KXII is a Gray Station too, I wish they would get off the pot and light that sucker up.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

OK so why is Belo Communications the nice guy(owner of KGW). When their CEO's total compensation is $2,000,000. Looks like Fischer's CEO is a whole lot less. So why is she greedy and Belo not? I don't see how this relates to Fischers dispute with Dish?

I think both CEO's are grossly overcompensated myself, but believe that's beside the point.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

dave1234 said:


> OK so why is Belo Communications the nice guy(owner of KGW). When their CEO's total compensation is $2,000,000. Looks like Fischer's CEO is a whole lot less. So why is she greedy and Belo not? I don't see how this relates to Fischers dispute with Dish?
> 
> I think both CEO's are grossly overcompensated myself, but believe that's beside the point.


I didn't post the original comment about CEO comp., but BELO is enormously larger than Fischer and is better run. So same reason why you would consider Vespa "greedy" if they tried to charge $18K for a motor-scooter, but so many people happily pay that much for a Harley Fat Boy.

Actually I consider it as off-topic as you do, but there is a difference in scale and apparently in competency.


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

KIDK is a our local CBS affiliate in Idaho Falls. I'm a fence sitter, waiting to join one of the sat services this spring. Dish has an advantage since they carry our locals but quickly loss it when they drop CBS (wife's favorite station). Cable looks alot better, never lost a channel.... Not liking what I'm seeing here from Dish.


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## loves2watch (Mar 27, 2006)

PokerJoker said:


> Yep, Dish is right now (11:30 PM PST) running a loop of Eric Sahl presenting E*'s point of view (basically, how Fisher is a bunch of unreasonable extortionists) on the KOMO satellite channels SD & HD (004-00, 6414, 8610). They're really laying it on thick, urging viewers to contact KOMO advertisers; the station manager; and urging people to watch "other alternative local programming".
> 
> Right now, I still have OTA reception on 004-01 (this is on a 622 box). However, my neighbor tells me that on his box, Dish has apparently caused his 622 to not be able to tune the OTA signal.
> 
> ...


Not possible nor legal.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

dave1234 said:


> OK so why is Belo Communications the nice guy(owner of KGW). When their CEO's total compensation is $2,000,000. Looks like Fischer's CEO is a whole lot less. So why is she greedy and Belo not? I don't see how this relates to Fischers dispute with Dish?
> 
> I think both CEO's are grossly overcompensated myself, but believe that's beside the point.


I don't know anything about Belo and they are not trying to screw the viewers. Perhaps they too will get some scrutiny if they try to take the channel off the air.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

IDRick said:


> Cable looks alot better, never lost a channel....


...yet. However, there have been issues where the cable companies have dropped the local channel because of a issue with channel carriage.


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## PokerJoker (Apr 12, 2008)

loves2watch said:


> Not possible nor legal.


Yeah, I knew that. Turns out a simple rescan was all he had to do.

Now he just needs a better antenna . . .

Keith


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Multichannel News reports today that there are a lot of retransmission agreements that expire on Dec. 31, and while not singling out Dish, suggests there might be more retrans disputes in the near future.

Full story: http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6624376.html?nid=2226&rid=reg_visitor_id&source=link

One nugget I hadn't seen here: Fisher's lawsuit "wasn't directly related to last week's drops, but alleged prior violations of its carriage deal by the satellite provider."


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

FTA Michael said:


> Multichannel News reports today that there are a lot of retransmission agreements that expire on Dec. 31, and while not singling out Dish, suggests there might be more retrans disputes in the near future.
> 
> Full story: http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6624376.html?nid=2226&rid=reg_visitor_id&source=link
> 
> One nugget I hadn't seen here: Fisher's lawsuit "wasn't directly related to last week's drops, but alleged prior violations of its carriage deal by the satellite provider."


This is questionable. Dish says they don't know where Fisher is coming from. Dish says these channels elected "must carry" which entitles them to zero compensation. Apparently if a channel falls under that criteria, nada is due. In the PR department it probably is Fisher trying to make Dish look bad to customers.

But the reality is this - Fisher is attempting to change the cost model and take a broadcast station and get cable rates. That's the main issue. I am telling you all that Colleen Brown is the Grinch here - she is overcompensated and really needs to be put in her place. She is arrogant and just simply out of touch. KATU's general manager John Tamarano or however you spell it is just a pawn in her game and is powerless really.


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## TomH (Jun 11, 2005)

Calvin Jones said:


> So few people watch the Fisher owned CBS affiliates in Boise they should be paying Dish to carry their crappy channel.


Do you have any references to back up this wild claim? Exactly how many CBS affiliates does Fisher own in Boise? You seem to imply there's more than one.

A lot of the highest rated shows are on CBS. Are the ratings different in Boise? I know most of the shows I watch are on that crappy channel. And unlike other local stations you don't have to hear every five minutes how great the local football team is.

Fortunately, most of the shows are in rerun for the next couple of weeks and the others I can record over the air.

I do agree however that the stations should be paying to have the satellite company's carry their station. Isn't it in their own best interest to make sure as many people see it as possible? When they install a translator station in a remote rural area they have to pay for their own equipment to get it there. Aren't they the ones who benefit from having it carried?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

WebTraveler said:


> This is questionable. Dish says they don't know where Fisher is coming from. Dish says these channels elected "must carry" which entitles them to zero compensation. Apparently if a channel falls under that criteria, nada is due. In the PR department it probably is Fisher trying to make Dish look bad to customers.


A quick read notes that the stations with issues are stations Fisher purchased ...

These stations likely HAD carriage contracts, perhaps even must carry status, prior to their purchase by Fisher. Then Fisher stepped in and apparently thought their "master contract" covering all of their stations also applied to these new stations.

I don't know if the election ends when a station is sold but if I had to guess I'd say that it doesn't. One of those things to check the FCC rules for. Can a new owner change from "consent to carry" to "must carry" or vice versa at a non election time just because they bought the station? I know there is a provision for new stations ... but is there one that allows changes at time of sale?

That may be the issue.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't believe so, but I could be wrong.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> A quick read notes that the stations with issues are stations Fisher purchased ...
> 
> These stations likely HAD carriage contracts, perhaps even must carry status, prior to their purchase by Fisher. Then Fisher stepped in and apparently thought their "master contract" covering all of their stations also applied to these new stations.
> 
> ...


There are generally two ways to buy things: (1) a stock sale or (2) purchase of the assets. In this case it is likely a stock sale. If it was simply a purchase of assets Fisher would probably have to re-apply for license certification from the FCC or whomever regulates these things, and that process would open up for someone else to apply. It's safe to assume that Fisher bought the stock of these stations.

When that happens the company simply continues to operate and existing contracts stay in place until the contract ends. Some contracts have certain clauses that could void them if certain events happen.

But in this case if the station was a "must carry" status station it likely stays that way until the end of that contract unless there is some over-riding provision.

Regardless Colleen Brown at Fisher Communications needs to re-evaluate her Scroogehood; this is all a crock and I am sick of it. Right now we're in the middle of a snowstorm and I am quietely emailing some of their advertisers and asking them never to do business again with KATU or if they do, I will not patronize them. We all make choices. Colleen Brown chose hers.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I am going to say Fisher will win on this one and dish will cave in to higher fees. Passing the buck is engrained in business now and like the federal bailouts we have no say.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Fisher will not get all 80% of that price increase. Some increase, maybe. But not all that 80% that Dish says.


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## biz (Jul 30, 2004)

In my area, CBS is Fisher, BUT, DIsh carries Fisher CBS out of Yakima another area. I'm getting my CBS via OTA no problem as it has been with all my locals.

No guide data sucks. Luckily its a quiet time for programming. Since my local station, however owned by Fisher isn't in the game here, not sure, but I think getting some newspaper coverage should highlight the issue.

Sometimes I really hate these companies (not sure who to blame the most) for these issues.


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## Rick_R (Sep 1, 2004)

I know one thing that will not happen under any circumstances. Dish will not pay any small station owners any more than what they consider normal. Charlie has stated in his chats when these disputes occur that they know what is reasonable and they simply will not raise the reasonableness barrier. They will take the hit and permanently lose customers rather than increase the standard compensation rate.

Rick R


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## bradpr (Sep 8, 2007)

Anyone remember when Viacom pulled all of their programming from Dish?
Why does Dish allow this to happen??? They need to get better lawyers or contract administrators.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

bradpr said:


> Anyone remember when Viacom pulled all of their programming from Dish?
> Why does Dish allow this to happen??? They need to get better lawyers or contract administrators.


They allow it because it results in far lower rates for them and us. These are the better negotiators. The networks/stations aren't accustommed to having anyone call their bluff.

If that's hard to understand and appreciate, Dish isn't the carrier for you, and capitalism isn't the system for you. Try France.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Granted, we could aways help help subsidize, the prices, by being forced to always bring up the full guide and being bombarded with Banner advertisements in the guide, and a guide that moves SO SLOW, it will drive you crazy. Sometimes Dish plays hardball, and its frustrating, but also amazing that it always seems to work its way out.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

TechnoCat said:


> They allow it because it results in far lower rates for them and us. These are the better negotiators. The networks/stations aren't accustommed to having anyone call their bluff.


DishNet says that they are fighting to keep prices low. If that really _was_ true, then DishNet wouldn't have to raise their prices by roughly the same amount as DirecTV every year.

It may be the conspiracy theorist in me, but I think DishNet purposely stages these public spats just so they can pretend to be fighting for the little guy. If they were truly successful in their fight, then they wouldn't be raising their prices by the same amount as DirecTV each year.

Their price increases for the last several years have mirrored DirecTV's almost exactly. And occur 1-2 months earlier than DirecTV's. Sounds to me like they aren't winning the fight.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Well they have to be doing something, as were Dish does raise the prices, they don't bombard us with endless marketing and advertisments in the guide, to offset the costs of things.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> DishNet says that they are fighting to keep prices low. If that really _was_ true, then DishNet wouldn't have to raise their prices by roughly the same amount as DirecTV every year.
> 
> It may be the conspiracy theorist in me, but I think DishNet purposely stages these public spats just so they can pretend to be fighting for the little guy. If they were truly successful in their fight, then they wouldn't be raising their prices by the same amount as DirecTV each year.
> 
> Their price increases for the last several years have mirrored DirecTV's almost exactly. And occur 1-2 months earlier than DirecTV's. Sounds to me like they aren't winning the fight.


The amount may be about the same, but the overall level of pricing is still typically lower.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

And the cost of the mainstream channels is likely the same for both providers. The cost of those does go up each year. It's built-in.


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## Richl (May 6, 2006)

I am affected by the dispute between Fisher and Dish. My biggest concern is that if Dish yields to Fishers demands for the 82% rate increase, then that will open the door for all of the other stations to start demanding the same type rate increase when their retransmission agreements come due. What will that ultimately do to our rates? 

Richl

I am watching Komo TV via an antenna right now, I get a 70 signal strength during the day and 0 at night, hmmmmm (attic antenna).


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi Folks.....

I fired off an email to Fisher and got this reply back.......

************************************************

from:CEO Colleen Brown [[email protected]]

Thank you for your email.

We want to thank you for caring enough about our programming to take the time to write. Please know that we attempted to extend the expiration of our current contract with DISH to work out the terms of a new agreement, but they rejected our proposal. We're obviously disappointed by their decision as it is you who is hurt the most.

We know that you don't really care whose fault this is, you just want to be able to watch your favorite programs and local news. But we thought you might like to know how this works. DISH pays a small amount of your monthly fee to every network or local station they carry. Please know that despite DISH's claim, our request is for a modest increase and is still considerably less than the amount they pay for less popular program networks. In fact, we have preliminarily agreed on the rate, but other issues are preventing a deal from being finalized.

While I can't go into greater detail, you should know that we believe DISH Network has violated the terms of our existing agreement. They have failed to pay us for one of our stations for the past two years! I would expect that if I were a DISH subscriber and I didn't pay my bill for two years, they would shut off my service and seek my back pay.

Please know that we are continuing our negotiations with DISH Network and doing all we can to reach a settlement. Thank you again for your email and we regret this has caused you any inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Colleen Brown
President and Chief Executive Officer
Fisher Communications, Inc.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Colleen Brown said:


> Please know that we attempted to extend the expiration of our current contract with DISH to work out the terms of a new agreement, but they rejected our proposal.


Per Charlie Ergen: Fisher's proposal to extend the contract was ONLY until Monday (Dec 22) and at their demanded new rate ... not an extension at the prior contract rates. DISH offered a longer extension (to get past the holidays and bad weather) but Fisher refused.



Colleen Brown said:


> They have failed to pay us for one of our stations for the past two years!


This is the subject of a lawsuit apparently filed in Oregon state court (I cannot find a case in the federal court system) ... access to the Oregon courts online is prohibitively expensive (a $275 set up fee before any information is retrieved at additional cost). But based on media reports, the lawsuit has to do with stations Fisher *PURCHASED*. DISH had agreements with the prior station owners that should have carried over.

As long as there is a lawsuit hanging over this I would not expect Fisher stations to return. They just seem too far apart.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

So, basically fisher wants backpay on must carry channels that had agreement and must carry status before fisher purchased them? This is laughble, fisher will get nowhere with this as the contract E* had carries over to new owners.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

How can this be? Everything is in black and white over what is owed in the past. I think Dish should reveal what is owed for the past and let us all decide who is right or wrong. A 3rd party arbitration should get involved.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Let's make this real clear - 

Fisher purchased some number of stations a couple years ago that had their own carriage arraingements with Dish. (Apparently Must Carry - for which NO compensation is given to the station. In fact, under Must Carry - the station assumes all costs of getting their signal to the carriers POP).

Dish continued carrying these stations under their previous carriage agreement.

Now Fisher is saying that the carriage agreements for ALL other Fisher stations should be retroactively applied to the new acquisitions.

Fisher should be "laughed out of court" for making such an assumption.

Dish will probably not settle on Fisher's terms, and consequently - Fisher stations will not be carried by Dish, until they come to more reasonable terms.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Without having the actual lawsuit in front of us we have to rely on the statements of those involved either directly or via the media. The statements I have seen reflect the idea that Fisher bought stations that were already on DISH and (my opinion) may be confused as to whether their "Fisher" contract for all "Fisher" stations on DISH covered carriage of those stations or the preexisting agreements applied. I remember one article where DISH acknowledged some underpayment but the rest seems to be more of a misunderstanding.

Renewal time is a critical point where misunderstandings turn into off air incidents. Lawsuits NEVER help. By the time a lawsuit is worked out nobody will be happy.


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## carl.066 (Jul 24, 2008)

According to my friends in Eugene, OR., Dish carriage of KVAL-TV (owned by Fisher) resumed this morning.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Still no channel 2 CBS the Fisher channel here.

Did an experiment and made this: How to build a UHF HDTV Antenna....CHEAP!

Put the antenna outside in a large pot in the backyard.

Now I'm picking up all the locals in HD, thinking of dropping the Dish locals to save $5 a month. If not for losing the DVR function for the locals it would be an easy decision.


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## TechnoCat (Sep 4, 2005)

calgary2800 said:


> How can this be? Everything is in black and white over what is owed in the past. I think Dish should reveal what is owed for the past and let us all decide who is right or wrong. A 3rd party arbitration should get involved.


Why would you think any of that? Or are you just pretending to think?

Black-and-White doesn't make it clear. If it did, there would be no need for courts and certainly no need for appeals.
Dish hasn't hidden the details, but why on Earth should Dish or Fischer care about YOUR opinion as to whether more money is owed?
And while we're at it, what expertise do you have that makes you capable of reading through years of multi-party contracts and sorting it all out anyhow? If experts can't agree, you must be very proud of yourself for apparently being the one elected human capable of discerning the true meaning and intent of every contractual dispute.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

carl.066 said:


> According to my friends in Eugene, OR., Dish carriage of KVAL-TV (owned by Fisher) resumed this morning.


Just checked KOMO here in Seattle and it's definitely NOT back. They are running the special Charlie Chat loop at the moment.


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## Benhath (Sep 9, 2006)

carl.066 said:


> According to my friends in Eugene, OR., Dish carriage of KVAL-TV (owned by Fisher) resumed this morning.


Nope, still the Charlie Chat and associated announcements are being played on KVAL as of 19:30 Pacific Time.

Ben


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## wsuladesigner (Jun 10, 2008)

I just checked my guide, and at noon on Tuesday, it looks as if the station is going to be turned back on (KOMO). It doesn't show the "Important News" anymore, but actual programming. Does anyone else see this?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

wsuladesigner said:


> I just checked my guide, and at noon on Tuesday, it looks as if the station is going to be turned back on (KOMO). It doesn't show the "Important News" anymore, but actual programming. Does anyone else see this?


I see the same thing. It might be that they just haven't updated the guide with their important news banner that far out yet. Guess we'll see what happens. KOMO still has the alert message on their website about it being gone, FWIW.


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## biz (Jul 30, 2004)

two full page ads in my local paper today, one from a local satellite setup company, said both directv and dish with 130 hd channels.

the other from directv, about the fact that we don't get cbs from dish right now (Fisher station).


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## Todd Nicholson (Jan 7, 2007)

wsuladesigner said:


> I just checked my guide, and at noon on Tuesday, it looks as if the station is going to be turned back on (KOMO). It doesn't show the "Important News" anymore, but actual programming. Does anyone else see this?


I noticed this last week when checking on some programming on King5 about a week out (which would have been around today). More than likely it's just that they haven't updated the guide with the Important Information loop they're that far out yet.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

The guide shows programming about 3-4 days out but its a rolling 3-4 days. After the nightly update the "Important News" blurb replaces programming at the 3-4 day mark.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Caught a brief notice on KING yesterday that Belo stations may disappear from Charter Cable services because of expiration of current contracts and lack of new ones.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

levibluewa said:


> Caught a brief notice on KING yesterday that Belo stations may disappear from Charter Cable services because of expiration of current contracts and lack of new ones.


Belo and Charter settled their thingy.
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6625207.html?industryid=47199


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## carl.066 (Jul 24, 2008)

Benhath said:


> Nope, still the Charlie Chat and associated announcements are being played on KVAL as of 19:30 Pacific Time.
> 
> Ben


You're right. I checked again, and KVAL was up only for a short time. They mapped the KVAL channel (7181) over to a different transponder, which carries the Charlie Chat video loop full-time.


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## tmo1138 (Jan 1, 2009)

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

This forum is always a wealth of information.. google hits have given me answers so often that until now I've never even registered.

But this nonsense with DISH and KOMO/Fisher really cheeses me off. I decided to try to get my waivers with mydistantnetworks.com done and see if I can get my national feeds back. I had them before I got the local Networks.. perhaps it's time to put them back. I wouldn't mind if KOMO had a tacoma-area UHF repeater I could tune into off the air but I can't get their signal off the air at all (I'm 20 miles east of Tacoma).

I blame Fisher for this completely. Dish is doing their job. I'm sure Fisher will pull the same thing with DTV and anyone/everyone else when contracts are up with them also.

Obviously Fisher management is delusional.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

The VP of Fisher told me that they have made a counter offer to Dish, but Dish has not responded for over 2 weeks now. My only guess is that the counter offer is so unreasonable that it is not worthy of a response. Or is Charlie Ergen is not being forthcoming with us at his silly www.fairsatellite.com website? The fact remains that both are not talking to each other and this issue does not appear to be going away anytime soon. Frankly, it sounds like both sides are being ridiculous.

I don't think Fisher is being reasonable and I don't think Charlie Ergen is being forthcoming.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

With that lawsuit out there, I doubt there would be much point in responding.


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## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

One thing to bear in mind if it's important to you, the distant networks (I get them for my RV) are not in HD. I recently talked to mydistantnetworks about that, while activating them on my new 612, and they said that until 'some day' when dish moves them to a different sat that won't change



tmo1138 said:


> Longtime lurker, first time poster.
> 
> This forum is always a wealth of information.. google hits have given me answers so often that until now I've never even registered.
> 
> But this nonsense with DISH and KOMO/Fisher really cheeses me off. I decided to try to get my waivers with mydistantnetworks.com done and see if I can get my national feeds back. .


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

That's in line with the rumor that AAD HD hinges on the new 129 sat AND I assume how much more Charlie is going to charge them for the additional transponder space. I've noticed posts about getting 8 HD channels on a transponder...hopefully that wouldn't make the pictures look worse than analog!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

levibluewa said:


> That's in line with the rumor that AAD HD hinges on the new 129 sat AND I assume how much more Charlie is going to charge them for the additional transponder space. I've noticed posts about getting 8 HD channels on a transponder...hopefully that wouldn't make the pictures look worse than analog!


8 per transponder would not be too bad ... especially since four of them would be 720p stations. Although AAD isn't known for their PQ on SD where they only have to put 8 _*SD*_ on a transponder. 

I wonder if they are getting enough business to pay for the transponder they are leasing now? Leasing a second transponder would have to be cost effective. NPS cannot rely on non-distant subscribers to subsidize their costs.


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