# Anyone unplug dvr during thunderstorm?



## rjl (Jun 2, 2002)

My dish 500 is mounted on my 10 foot dishes pole. I have those 6 plug surge protectors but I unplug to be safe. Do you think that's overkill? What surge units do people here use? Thanks


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

You may want to get a UPS. These tend to provide A LOT more protection for power spikes than the cheap 6 plug surge protectors.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

What finnigan said - and I then plug the UPS into the old surge suppressor - just to help protect the UPS itself.

The BIG BIG thing is to make sure the dish itself and the feed cables are properly grounded - there's WAY too many lousy installers out there that either do it wrong or not at all.

Next is to use the cable ports on your surge protector (or get one that has them).


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Not usually. I just leave mine all plugged in - if the satellite goes out, I changes over to my OTA antenna (shameless plug - a good OTA picture will totally blow away your LIL DBS locals. I have mine mostly to be able to record them on my DVR and to get the schedule, also the seamless aspect).


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Since a DVR is basically a computer and I have all my computers on UPS's I've also got all my DVR's on UPS.


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## rjl (Jun 2, 2002)

Does having my dish 500 mounted on the big dish pole mean it's grounded enough?


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

No. Even if the pole is grounded, it won't comply with code. NEC code states that ANY outside wiring MUST be grounded withing 2 feet of the ENTRY point of the structure, preferably on the outside. The BEST place to ground is the main house ground where the Elctrical box is located. Then, a 2500+ joule surge protector with a coax pass thru should be at each receiver. Since the outside ground doesn't take all the juice out of a strike, you can still get a 100+ volt surge down the line and blow out the boxes. The problem with most CBands is that they were grounded at the dish, and not when they went into the house. Even though the wire is buried, it can still get hit.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> What finnigan said - and I then plug the UPS into the old surge suppressor - just to help protect the UPS itself.


Most companies that sell quality UPS units SPECIFICALLY state NOT to plug a UPS into a surge-spike protector. UPSs are very sensitive to proper grounding and offer surge and spike protection themselves. By plugging a UPS into a surge-spike protector you are changing the ground potential and other electrical values that the surge-spike protectors introduce. Many UPS companies void their equipment warranty if the UPS is plugged into anything other than directly into a primary wall outlet that is wired and grounded correctly. Some even mention NOT to use an extension cord unless it is of sufficent gauge and a short length. *READ the included docs with your UPS to be sure.*


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## rjl (Jun 2, 2002)

Everything on my c-band is unhooked and unplugged. Am I totally safe by unplugging my dvr and the lnb coax during storms? I've been doing that since I got satellite, years ago. Thanks


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I've thought twice, three times, and read the stuff - which is not as wide-spread as you seem to think. Surge protectors all have pass-through grounds - there is no potential difference. If you understand how the typical modern surge protector works, you realize it's NOT an issue.

I live in the #2 highest lightning strike county in the USA and take hits all the time. On occassion I'll lose a surge protector, but I've never lost a UPS or anything attached to it.

BTW, I have SEVEN UPS's here running my Home theatre gear, 4 computers, and an assortment of other equipment.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Phone lines are more suspeptible to surges. I would get a surge protector with the phone line protection built in. I had one protect my stuff earlier this year.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Good point - thanks for bringing that one up!


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

rjl said:


> Everything on my c-band is unhooked and unplugged. Am I totally safe by unplugging my dvr and the lnb coax during storms? I've been doing that since I got satellite, years ago. Thanks


Lightning strikes can happen pretty much anytime, a storm is not really needed. If it is not already done, have your system properly grounded and add in a surge with a coax and phone pass thru. While you are safe having it unplugged during a storm to an extent, it's best to make sure it is grounded properly. It still has wires that go outside, and those wires can still pick up voltage from a nearby strike and hurt stuff.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> I've thought twice, three times, and read the stuff - which is not as wide-spread as you seem to think. Surge protectors all have pass-through grounds - there is no potential difference. If you understand how the typical modern surge protector works, you realize it's NOT an issue.
> 
> I live in the #2 highest lightning strike county in the USA and take hits all the time. On occassion I'll lose a surge protector, but I've never lost a UPS or anything attached to it.
> 
> BTW, I have SEVEN UPS's here running my Home theatre gear, 4 computers, and an assortment of other equipment.


In New Mexico at 7000ft above sea level and I disagree.

Most inexpensive surge-spike protectors use $1.50 MOVS to protect hot and neutral and if you ever put a really good DVM on a cheap protector you'll be surprised at how much resistance can be added to the "pass-through" ground by the Chinese surge-spike protector company. Any increase in resistance from 0 ohms is an increase in ground potential.. Better protectors like Panamax add caps and coils to hot and neutral but a true on-line UPS is best as the equipment is isolated by running off a battery and invertor and not line supplied AC. Stand-by UPS are different.

WOW 7 UPSes! Sorry, I've just got 4 really big on-line ones.

Bottom line is any of the Dish PVRs really seem to like even the most fundamental UPS units.

Now, come to think of how many Dish installations I've seen where the dish isn't properly grounded this conversation may be a waste of time for all of us.

Ever notice that on a Dish 500 that the actual metal dish is not grounded to the coax shield as the LNBs are? The plastic LNB mount isolates the dish from the coax shield ground. If you live somewhere that is dry and breezy you can lose an LNB real easy from a static electricity buildup on the dish that discharges to the LNB (which is grounded through the coax shield) if the installer properly did the grounding. I lost a couple LNBs before I figured it out and simply ran a ground wire to one of the dish mounting bolts and properly grounded it. Haven't had many of the wierd problems I was experiencing since I made that mod over 2 years ago.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

SteveS said:


> In New Mexico at 7000ft above sea level and I disagree.
> 
> Most inexpensive surge-spike protectors use $1.50 MOVS to protect hot and neutral and if you ever put a really good DVM on a cheap protector you'll be surprised at how much resistance can be added to the "pass-through" ground by the Chinese surge-spike protector company. Any increase in resistance from 0 ohms is an increase in ground potential.. Better protectors like Panamax add caps and coils to hot and neutral but a true on-line UPS is best as the equipment is isolated by running off a battery and invertor and not line supplied AC. Stand-by UPS are different.


Sorry - as I suspected, the part of your post quoted above is wrong. Not about your altitude - although I'm sorry you're so close to sea level. I'm more than a 1/4 mile higher. 

I fully agree with the parts of your post I did NOT quote.

Anyway, I just tested 3 surge protectors (2 cheap-os, one IBM) and one Tripp-Lite UPS. All the surge protectors have ZERO resistance on all 3 power poles from line cord to plug. The UPS has ZERO on the neutral and ground sides, but some resistance on the hot side - as expected.

Now there MIGHT be some VERY small resistance added on the hot and neutral poles, but it has to be small to allow the 10-15 amps they are rated for to pass through. In any event, that part doesn't matter - because the discussion is about the downstream UPS having a good ground for IT'S surge protection to work with. There is absolutely NO reason to not have a solid buss for the ground side - the surge devices are NOT in series with said buss, and it may even be "illegal" (by UL) to not do that.

As for the warranty - yes, the upstream protector's warranty would not apply because the target device is not plugged directly into it - but the UPS's protection warranty still applies. The ones I just read do NOT say they have to be plugged directly into a wall outlet - just that they have to be properly grounded, and that it only applies to devices plugged directly into it.


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## toomuchtv (May 17, 2002)

rjl said:


> My dish 500 is mounted on my 10 foot dishes pole. I have those 6 plug surge protectors but I unplug to be safe. Do you think that's overkill? What surge units do people here use? Thanks


I unplug every tv, computer& receiver, as well as disconnecting coax & phone lines. Overkill is the name of the game. So far, it has served me well while my neighbors keep replacing units.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Unplugging everything is definitely the way to go. However, I stopped doing that a few years ago. Most of my equipment is covered by extended warranties and I hated getting up in the middle of the night to unplug everything when a storm starts rolling through.

Everything of importance is on an UPS including my home theater system and HDTV. So far, I haven't lost anything (knock on wood).


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## redfishhunter (Aug 5, 2004)

You are right TOOMUCHTV the best is to pull the plug on the cable and the phone line.
A direct hit will surge the best equipment money can buy. While in Florida a few weeks ago I noticed that most install were looped at the dish and before entering the house, curious about it I asked a tech about it and he told me it was the best way to avoid damage to the equipment since lightning travels vertically or horizontally and can't get threw a loop. Not a bad idea...


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## 34Ford (Jul 3, 2004)

Okay, Ill buy a UPS. So what is enough, wattage that is?

I have one here at work thats running this machine and its rated at 325 watts. 17-24 mins. of power. and thats with this big ole monitor pulling on it.

I suppose the DVR would last longer.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Any UPS would be better than none. Don't forget that they also condition the line voltage and output a nice continuous range. That's the main benefit of a UPS. Having a power spike go down the line can do more harm than a strike that will get stopped by a grounded surge protector. Also, the SBCA recommends that the DISH itself be grounded to a trailer wire that is attached to the coax lines. While grounding the dish is not as neccessary as grounding the coax, it does allow a negative charge to build up around the dish to try to "push" away any near charge. That's how a lightning rod works. Try to keep lightning away, but ground it if it gets hit.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

redfishhunter said:


> ...A direct hit will surge the best equipment money can buy. While in Florida a few weeks ago I noticed that most install were looped at the dish and before entering the house, curious about it I asked a tech about it and he told me it was the best way to avoid damage to the equipment since lightning travels vertically or horizontally and can't get threw a loop. Not a bad idea...


I've seen lightning do things that wold curl (and burn) your hair. A loop in a piece of RG-6 means NOTHING to a lightning strike that might be measured in MegaVolts and MegaAmps (or at least within a order of magnitude thereof).

And lightning travels in any direction it wants - just watch a storm sometime - that vertical/horizontal "only" is total manure.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I must agree with you. The SBCA trainer pointed out that your ground wire shouldn't have any 90 degree bends in it since the lightning could arc of and hit something else, but you will still get a charge down the line. No way around it whether you have a bend or not. You might loose some of it, but no way you will loose all of it. If you want to be safe, then ground it, AND put in on a good quality surge. Anything else is like playing russian roulette.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

In late April we had a thunderstorm here and the power blinked off for a second, I was on the computer all night, and didn't watch TV until the following day. My DirecTiVo didn't get fried, but it would skip constantly on both prerecorded shows and on live TV, and you could even see the animations in the menus pause for a brief second about once every 30 seconds. Called up my retailer and they were out here with a new box. Must have been a small joint, just powerful enough to effect the hard drive. Eventually I’m going to get UPS but for now when it’s really bad out I just unplug the power strip.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

I have a whole house surge protector at the service panel and also use use one that uses no MOV's where all my receivers and other equipment are located ( Simon you may find this interesting):

http://www.brickwall.com/

Here's another type, though expensive, it uses an interesting concept that offers surge protection but also improves the audio and video performance of your gear. It's benefits are best suited for use in a home theater.:

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

rjl said:


> ...but I unplug to be safe. Do you think that's overkill?


 I see that the answers went from "use a UPS" to "no, it's not overkill" and that's what I was going to say also. A surge protector is *NOT* a lightening protector by any means. I'm not too sure that a UPS will protect against a lightening strike either. That's not what they're designed to do, as I understand.

With that, I don't run around my house unplugging expensive AV equipment, or just plain, old TVs, from the wall outlets. Same with my computers. I'll say right now it's too much of a hassle but I imagine it will be a bigger hassle if I lose some of this stuff to a lightening hit. My insurance will _reimburse_ me, but I have to buy the items first. Frankly, we can't afford to replace our TVs, stereo equipment, Dish receiver, computers and so on ALL AT ONCE.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

rjl said:


> My dish 500 is mounted on my 10 foot dishes pole. I have those 6 plug surge protectors but I unplug to be safe. Do you think that's overkill? What surge units do people here use? Thanks


I use an APC surge protector ($40) with $100,000 warranty covering anything attached to it that gets zapped. If I'm home, I'll still unplug all my expensive toys from the wall, but if I'm gone I don't panic over it.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> I have a whole house surge protector at the service panel and also use use one that uses no MOV's where all my receivers and other equipment are located ( Simon you may find this interesting):
> 
> http://www.brickwall.com/
> 
> ...


I like the BrickWall concept - sure sounds good anyway. 



Hall said:


> I see that the answers went from "use a UPS" to "no, it's not overkill" and that's what I was going to say also. A surge protector is *NOT* a lightening protector by any means. I'm not too sure that a UPS will protect against a lightening strike either. That's not what they're designed to do, as I understand.


You're right, surge protectors will NOT dissipate an entire direct lightning strike. Lightning is measured in hundreds of kilovolts. Surge protectors are rated up to 6KV. :eek2: :nono:

However, that's NOT how it usually works. 

Near-misses are much more common - for example, a strike on a nearby power pole. In this case, most of the energy immediately goes to ground, but some travels down the wires to your house - that's a surge/spike. If it's "small" a single protector has you covered. If it's the pole outside your house, maybe the first protector gets fried and some gets by it to (in my case) the protection in the UPS. Hopefully, that takes care of the rest of it.

Scenario #2. Direct strike onto a tree next to your dish. Again, most of the energy goes direct to ground through the tree, but you can get bleed-over onto the coax. So, the coax is grounded, taking most of the remaining energy - but you can still get some coming inside. That's what the cable protector that's part of your power strip is for. 
If the strike was directly on the house, I doubt anything would help.


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