# HD RSN blackouts



## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

what's the point of HD RSN's if I get blacked out of games. I'm in Omaha and both FSN rocky mountain and midwest had games in HD saturday night, but I couldn't watch either. so what's the deal? am I just hosed?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

The point is that IF your RSN is showing something in HD, then you get to see it in HD. And I suppose that if you're a Sports Pack subscriber and one of those out-of-market RSNs happen to show something that isn't blacked out but is in HD, then you'd be able to see that too. But I haven't seen that second case yet.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

The HD RSN's are just for subscribers in those markets. If you're not, you will never see anything on those channels.


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## slowmo (Sep 22, 2006)

I haven't bothered to learn the rules but I have noticed, since I started getting HD RSN's (the 2 SEastern channels), two instances where I was blocked from receiving ESPN because the same game was on one of my HD RSN's.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

slowmo said:


> I haven't bothered to learn the rules but I have noticed, since I started getting HD RSN's (the 2 SEastern channels), two instances where I was blocked from receiving ESPN because the same game was on one of my HD RSN's.


This is really the one basic rule, if you are supposed to get game from your local rsn, ESPN will be blacked out whether you get the rsn or not.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

garys said:


> This is really the one basic rule, if you are supposed to get game from your local rsn, ESPN will be blacked out whether you get the rsn or not.


That does not happen on cable. When the Mets, Yankees or Phillies are on ESPN,
I still get the game on my Verizon RSNs, which are SNY, YES and CSN. I get
both the HD and SD version.


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

bruin95 said:


> The HD RSN's are just for subscribers in those markets. If you're not, you will never see anything on those channels.


that makes more sense. If I understand correctly, if Fox broadcasts the Huskers in HD, I'll get that since I'm "in market".


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Hound said:


> That does not happen on cable. When the Mets, Yankees or Phillies are on ESPN,
> I still get the game on my Verizon RSNs, which are SNY, YES and CSN. I get
> both the HD and SD version.


And you still get the game on ESPN too? Your RSNs should be hollering.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Mikey said:


> And you still get the game on ESPN too? Your RSNs should be hollering.


Yes, we do get the game on ESPN. The agreements must allow this to happen.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

Hound said:


> Yes, we do get the game on ESPN. The agreements must allow this to happen.


Consider yourself lucky, because that is not what's supposed to be happening. ESPN should be blacked out when your local team is playing on there, with the exception of the Sunday Night game. My local teams are always blacked out on ESPN via my cable co. and via E*.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

huskerpat said:


> that makes more sense. If I understand correctly, if Fox broadcasts the Huskers in HD, I'll get that since I'm "in market".


Yes.


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

If you have the sports pack, are you still blacked out if you aren't in market?


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

For 99.9% of pro sports, yes. Same rules apply as the SD RSN's.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

huskerpat said:


> If you have the sports pack, are you still blacked out if you aren't in market?


FSN has a national agreement with the Big-12 and the Pac-10 to show games nationwide. If it's not on ABC or ESPN, it'll probably be on the FSN channels. How that's going to work will all the HD FSNs on the same Dish transponder, I don't know.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

huskerpat said:


> If you have the sports pack, are you still blacked out if you aren't in market?


The SD answer to that question is here: http://www.carload.com/dishsports.htm

One of these days, when HD becomes as expected as color in movies, you might be able to watch a minor-league game or something in HD. For now, those RSN HDs are only used when necessary, and that has always(?) meant a major-league game subject to blackout out of market.


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## anthonyi (Feb 4, 2006)

So, if I purchase the RSN package. I figure I won't be able to see the Phillies. But would I be able to watch teams like the Reds, Chicago, etc.... that are outside the Philadelphia market?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

anthonyi said:


> So, if I purchase the RSN package. I figure I won't be able to see the Phillies. But would I be able to watch teams like the Reds, Chicago, etc.... that are outside the Philadelphia market?


No, you would need to go to Direct or cable and get the MLB Extra Innings package to do that. RSNs only give you pro baseball games for the teams in your market.


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## anthonyi (Feb 4, 2006)

But the teams in my market would be blacked out.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

anthonyi said:


> But the teams in my market would be blacked out.


No, they would be blacked out on national providers like ESPN, if the RSN was carrying the game. You always have rights to view the teams inside your market.


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## anthonyi (Feb 4, 2006)

E* doesn't offer me any teams that are in or near my Market area. No Phillies, Met, Yankees, Baltimore, nothing at all. So I thought if I purchased the Sport Package from E* I would be able to watch some Baseball?


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

anthonyi said:


> E* doesn't offer me any teams that are in or near my Market area. No Phillies, Met, Yankees, Baltimore, nothing at all. So I thought if I purchased the Sport Package from E* I would be able to watch some Baseball?


No, baseball is blacked out on the sports package unless the games go over
three hours. After three hours the blackout is lifted. You need Major League
Baseball Extra Innings to get baseball.

I am in the same position as you with Dish. No baseball at all in NJ. So I am leaving
Dish next month when my 18 month commitment expires. I originally signed up with Dish because my cable company did not offer Comcast Sportsnet or MLB EI.
Dish did offer MLB EI, but no longer does.

I now get Yankees, Phillies, Mets in HD on Verizon, YES, CSN, and SNY and MLB EI
on cable.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

anthonyi said:


> E* doesn't offer me any teams that are in or near my Market area. No Phillies, Met, Yankees, Baltimore, nothing at all. So I thought if I purchased the Sport Package from E* I would be able to watch some Baseball?


A long time ago, I made my list of what isn't blacked out on the Sports Pack. I used to copy and paste the whole danged thing every time somebody asked about it, but I figured it would be nicer to just provide the link (http://www.carload.com/dishsports.htm) for folks who really want to see the whole thing. (Darts? Beach volleyball?) Please, anthonyi, don't make me copy and paste it here again.

About baseball, as Hound indicated, you get the lower-case extra innings, which is those parts of games that extend past their scheduled time. We love rain delays. You also get some minor-league baseball games and a small percentage of major-league baseball replays (MASN). There have even been a couple of Sundays this year when the FS North Twins game has been in the clear for no apparent reason. During college baseball season, you get most of those games. And for all seasons, you get all the pregame and postgame shows.

And from a moderator perspective, since this is the HD Dish forum, I'll remind you that you'll get better answers about the Sports Pack (which effectively SD-only for almost all viewers) in the regular Dish discussion forum.


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

FTA Michael said:


> The SD answer to that question is here: http://www.carload.com/dishsports.htm
> 
> One of these days, when HD becomes as expected as color in movies, you might be able to watch a minor-league game or something in HD. For now, those RSN HDs are only used when necessary, and that has always(?) meant a major-league game subject to blackout out of market.


There was the Minor League All-Star game on ESPN2-HD last night I think. Does that count?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Nope. We're talking about the HD events on the RSNs. ESPN is not an RSN.

Maybe if Altitude HD ever gets turned on and if Altitude happens to show a SkySox game in HD, that would be an example of an HD event you might be able to get out of market with the Sports Pack.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

anthonyi said:


> E* doesn't offer me any teams that are in or near my Market area. No Phillies, Met, Yankees, Baltimore, nothing at all. So I thought if I purchased the Sport Package from E* I would be able to watch some Baseball?


That doesn't make any sense. You should be able to see whatever would be considered your local teams via their RSN if you sub to the sports pack. I live in Vegas and get Dodger games on Prime Ticket, Angels games on Fox Sports West, and Diamondbacks games on Fox Arizona. I also receive the HD feeds. If I were you, I'd call E* and complain. You should be receiving your local teams, no ifs, ands, or buts.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

His RSN may be one of the few not carried on E*.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

IIRC, there are some areas which are claimed by multiple teams, but for some of those teams, Dish doesn't have the contract to deliver the RSN as an in-market channel all the way out to those fringes.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

FTA Michael said:


> IIRC, there are some areas which are claimed by multiple teams, but for some of those teams, Dish doesn't have the contract to deliver the RSN as an in-market channel all the way out to those fringes.


Well that poster is located in NJ. Not exactly a "fringe" area. He should have access to either Mets/Yankees or the Phillies or all three. Like I stated in an earlier post, I get the Dodgers, Angels, and Diamondbacks and I'm 300 miles away from the nearest team. He shouldn't be having any problems with this living in NJ. Can't hurt to call and complain.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

FTA Michael said:


> IIRC, there are some areas which are claimed by multiple teams, but for some of those teams, Dish doesn't have the contract to deliver the RSN as an in-market channel all the way out to those fringes.


That is not the way the contracts work. The contract is for the entire territory of the team. The fringe areas are not excluded. It is up to the Multi video provider to give the programming to its subs.

This is only speculation on my part, but Dish must haircut the territory to save money. The majority of subs anywhere probably do not want baseball. Baseball
ratings are at best 1-2% for a baseball RSN. So if Dish does not provide baseball
in the "fringe" areas, say in the case of Sportsnet NY, Dish saves $1.75 per sub.

I live in Central NJ. About 50 miles from the Phillies, Yankees and Mets stadiums. My zip code falls within the blackout zip codes claimed by the Phillies, Yankees and Mets. My zip code is located within parts of three counties and both the New York and Philadelphia DMA. My county is allocated to the Phillies under the
MLB television agreement. However, the MLB television contract has a contiguous
county clause that allows cable companies to show the games of all teams
in contiguous counties if the cable company has a certain percentage of subs
in both counties. So Comcast, Cablevision and Patriot Media provide the
Phillies, Mets and Yankees RSNs to all subs in my county. Comcast also does
this in two other another NJ counties that I am aware of. Directv also provides the RSN of the Yankees and Mets in my county. Neither Directv or Dish has a carriage agreement for the Phillies RSN, because Comcast will not allow it on satellite and is protected by the so called "terrestrial exception". Dish does not have a carriage agreement for the Yankees. Dish does have a carriage agreement for the Mets, but does not provide the Mets in my county. I used to get the Mets with Dish when the Mets were on MSG and FSNY. Dish does provide me with MSG and FSNY because I live in the Devils ice hockey territory. With regard to MLB EI, I am blacked out for the Yankees and Mets but not the Phillies.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hound said:


> That is not the way the contracts work. The contract is for the entire territory of the team.


Can you explain why I don't get FSN Detroit as part of my normal subscription. Why do I need the RSN Sports Pack to watch this channel when I live in the home territory for the Tigers?

The answer to my question is that you are wrong on how contracts work. The contract for delivery of the RSN _does not_ relate to the territory of the team(s) it covers. RSNs have their own separate home territories. On a good day the RSN territory covers the same or more territory than the teams on the RSN (with blackouts for areas outside the team's territory as needed). But it should NOT be assumed that a team's RSN covers their entire territory.

If you're going to say it is because E* is cheap then explain why D* doesn't provide FSN Detroit to my house either. D* would not even provide FSN MW to my home without extra charge.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Hound said:


> That is not the way the contracts work. The contract is for the entire territory of the team. The fringe areas are not excluded. It is up to the Multi video provider to give the programming to its subs.
> 
> This is only speculation on my part, but Dish must haircut the territory to save money. The majority of subs anywhere probably do not want baseball. Baseball
> ratings are at best 1-2% for a baseball RSN. So if Dish does not provide baseball
> ...


You are right about E* and D* not permitted to carry CSN Philly however, CSN Philly games are in D*s version of MLB EI (Of course those games would even be blacked out for you being that your in Philly territory but they are there this year.)


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## Mojito05 (Dec 8, 2006)

I've read this entire thread and also did some searches, but didn't find what I was looking for. So if I've missed something obvious, please smack me on the head.

I've been a Dish customer since 12/06 and have always wondered why I get the Twins, and other Minnesota programming, on FOXN (436) when I live in the capital of Wisconsin - 250+ miles from the Metrodome. But since I can usually watch the Brewers on one of the ALT stations, I never really pursued it. But now that Dish is offering FOXN in HD (386), I felt more compelled to find the answer.

So tonight I called Dish and was told by a CSR that it's setup that way because of the zip code I'm in. That's it and there's no way it can be changed. Is that correct? It just seems crazy to me that my zip code would be lumped into FSN - Minnesota and not FSN - Wisconsin. Could someone fill me in please??


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Mojito05 said:


> ...
> So tonight I called Dish and was told by a CSR that it's setup that way because of the zip code I'm in. That's it and there's no way it can be changed. Is that correct? It just seems crazy to me that my zip code would be lumped into FSN - Minnesota and not FSN - Wisconsin. Could someone fill me in please??


Check your zipcode here http://dish.fxep.com
It'll tell you what teams claim your zipcode.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

James Long said:


> Can you explain why I don't get FSN Detroit as part of my normal subscription. Why do I need the RSN Sports Pack to watch this channel when I live in the home territory for the Tigers?
> 
> The answer to my question is that you are wrong on how contracts work. The contract for delivery of the RSN _does not_ relate to the territory of the team(s) it covers. RSNs have their own separate home territories. On a good day the RSN territory covers the same or more territory than the teams on the RSN (with blackouts for areas outside the team's territory as needed). But it should NOT be assumed that a team's RSN covers their entire territory.
> 
> If you're going to say it is because E* is cheap then explain why D* doesn't provide FSN Detroit to my house either. D* would not even provide FSN MW to my home without extra charge.


If you live in the Tiger's television territory and your multi video provider has
a carriage agreement with the Tiger's RSN, then it is your multi video
provider's decision to include or not include the RSN in your subscription.
If you live in a county allocated to a specific team the multi video provder must
provide the RSN to you.
So, you have to ask E* or D* why you are not getting FSN Detroit.
The MLB television agreement among the owners allocates counties to various
teams. You may or may not live in a county allocated to the Tigers. There is
also a contiguous county rule that allows subs in a contiguous county to the Tigers
allocated counties to receive the Tigers programming,
if the multi video provider has a specified percentage of subs in the contiguous
county and the Tigers allocated counties. If you do not live in a Tigers allocated
county, your multi video provider may exclude your subscription from receiving
the RSN. Baseball blackouts go by zip code. The zip code areas in many cases
exceed the territory of the counties allocated to many teams. Like in my case,
my zip code is allocated to the Phillies, Yankees and Mets. There are a number
of zip codes in NJ that are allocated to all three teams.

To answer your question, you must not live in a county allocated to the Tigers,
but your zip code may be within the Tigers blackout area, so you can watch
the Tigers games on Sportpak without blackout.

To DC Sholtis, I am blacked out for Yankees and Mets on MLB EI, so I could
watch CSN on D*. Friends of mine in town have D* with MLB EI with the same
result. D* provides them with YES and SNY.


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## Mojito05 (Dec 8, 2006)

Mikey said:


> Check your zipcode here http://dish.fxep.com
> It'll tell you what teams claim your zipcode.


According to the site, I should be getting the Brewers instead of the Twins:

http://dish.fxep.com/ASP/default.asp?DestPage=RegionTeams.asp?ZipCode=53719&ZipCode=53719

Although, I noticed that the schedules for my available teams haven't been updated since 2005, so I'm wondering if the information on the site is still valid?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Mojito05 said:


> According to the site, I should be getting the Brewers instead of the Twins:
> 
> http://dish.fxep.com/ASP/default.asp?DestPage=RegionTeams.asp?ZipCode=53719&ZipCode=53719
> 
> Although, I noticed that the schedules for my available teams haven't been updated since 2005, so I'm wondering if the information on the site is still valid?


It should be valid for the teams that claim your zipcode. I suspect that Dish made an error when they entered your zipcode somewhere.


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

Mojito05 said:


> I've read this entire thread and also did some searches, but didn't find what I was looking for. So if I've missed something obvious, please smack me on the head.
> 
> I've been a Dish customer since 12/06 and have always wondered why I get the Twins, and other Minnesota programming, on FOXN (436) when I live in the capital of Wisconsin - 250+ miles from the Metrodome. But since I can usually watch the Brewers on one of the ALT stations, I never really pursued it. But now that Dish is offering FOXN in HD (386), I felt more compelled to find the answer.
> 
> So tonight I called Dish and was told by a CSR that it's setup that way because of the zip code I'm in. That's it and there's no way it can be changed. Is that correct? It just seems crazy to me that my zip code would be lumped into FSN - Minnesota and not FSN - Wisconsin. Could someone fill me in please??


FOXN used to be one channel that covered the Twins & Brewers. Recently, they've split the channels to FOXN & FOX Wisconsin, but E* is not providing the Wisconsin feed as a full time channel. They are only providing live game content on an ALT channel. So, no matter where you live, you cannot get FOX Wisconsin on E* on a full time basis, because they don't carry it.

This could become an issue the next time their contract is up for renewal, if FOX Wisconsin demands full carriage. That is what happened with FOX Ohio/Cincnnati a few years ago.


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

Mikey said:


> Check your zipcode here http://dish.fxep.com
> It'll tell you what teams claim your zipcode.


Ok, I checked my zipcode on this site. It says I should be getting royals games. does this mean I should be getting Royals games in hd, or does it mean that I'll just be getting them on the alt channel? right now, Cardinals games show on the EPG for the HD RSN, but they are blacked out. Would a call to Dish straighten this out and let me get Royals in HD?


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## JoeShmo24 (Jul 17, 2007)

huskerpat said:


> Ok, I checked my zipcode on this site. It says I should be getting royals games. does this mean I should be getting Royals games in hd, or does it mean that I'll just be getting them on the alt channel? right now, Cardinals games show on the EPG for the HD RSN, but they are blacked out. Would a call to Dish straighten this out and let me get Royals in HD?


The Royals do not have any games in HD...They have their own network (RSTN) that is shown on one Fox Sports MW ALT channels when the Cardinals are on. The Royals spend a proportional amount on their TV network as they do on their team's payroll =) Next year though, the games will be carried by Fox Sports, and hopefully we'll get HD games then.

GO ROYALS!


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

huskerpat said:


> Ok, I checked my zipcode on this site. It says I should be getting royals games. does this mean I should be getting Royals games in hd, or does it mean that I'll just be getting them on the alt channel? right now, Cardinals games show on the EPG for the HD RSN, but they are blacked out. Would a call to Dish straighten this out and let me get Royals in HD?


I should get the Royals games too, but I don't. The Royals are carried by some 3rd World RSN that Dish doesn't have, and they don't do HD anyway.

Next year FSN will have them again, probably on FSNMW, like the Cardinals. Hopefully, there will be a lot of HD games for the Royals next year.



Wikipedia said:


> * Royals Sports Television Network (Kansas City, western Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Iowa), owned by the Kansas City Royals. After the 2007 MLB season, RSTN will cease operations and all Kansas City Royals games will be broadcast on FSN Midwest.


Edit: Joe, you beat me to it. :welcome_s


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