# FCC orders set makers to add DTV tuners by March 2006



## gbranch (Mar 7, 2003)

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/business/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164301808

Spencer Chin and George Leopold 
EE Times
(06/09/2005 12:50 PM EDT)

WASHINGTON - The Federal Communications Commission moved Thursday (June 9) to speed up the U.S. digital TV transition by refusing to delay the introduction of digital tuners in new TV receivers.

Consumer electronics manufacturers were seeking to delay the date by which set makers would be required to build digital TV tuners into half of all new mid-size TV receivers measuring 25 to 36 inches. Instead, the FCC said it has moved up by four months the date for full compliance with the rule to March 1, 2006.

FCC rules require that all large TV sets larger than 36 inches be equipped with digital tuners by July 1. Smaller sets and other receivers, including VCRs and DVD recorders, must have built-in tuners by July 1, 2007.

The FCC also proposed moving up the date by which all TV receivers 13 inches or larger and receiving devices must have built-in tuners by seven months to Dec. 31, 2006. That date corresponds with statutory target date for ending U.S. analog broadcasts.

"Today's order makes clear that [the FCC] is committed to moving the digital transition forward," Commissioner Michael Copps said in a statement. "Each time a consumer purchases a set with a digital tuner, we move one step closer towards accomplishing the transition."

The FCC's latest announcement brought mixed reactions from the Consumer Electronics Association (Arlington, Va.), an industry trade group.

While applauding the FCC's decision to expedite the tuner mandate, the CEA expressed concern over the FCC's refusal to delay the 50-percent deadline for mid-size TVs to have digital tuners. The CEA argued that the requirement would increase market uncertainty and slow the ramp-up of volume production needed to keep prices down.

In a similar vein, the CEA expressed concern that accelerating the timetable for smaller sets to be DTV-broadcast compliant was unrealistic for manufacturers and could raise prices for smaller sets to levels unaffordable for low-income consumers.

All material on this site Copyright © 2005 CMP Media LLC. All rights reserved.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm glad that they are being more steadfast. The digital shift is going to have it's problems but that will pass. Manufactures should have already been placing the digital tuners in all of the receivers. From what I understand there are problems regarding different standards of decoding formats.


----------



## deraz (Sep 25, 2004)

gbranch said:


> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/business/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164301808
> 
> FCC rules require that all large TV sets larger than 36 inches be equipped with digital tuners by July 1. Smaller sets and other receivers, including VCRs and DVD recorders, must have built-in tuners by July 1, 2007.
> 
> All material on this site Copyright © 2005 CMP Media LLC. All rights reserved.


I believe that this is not always what is best for consumers. When you buy a TV you are being forced to pay for an item that you may never use. Manufacturers should be allowed to offer TVs without tuners. I have D* and my HDTV has a bunch of tuners that will never be used.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I don't have a link anymore but I saw a story about some manufacturers are deciding to just not install any tuner in the set so it's a monitor only to keep the costs down. Kind of makes sense if you're getting your programming via DBS or cable you need an external STB anyway to receive the signals. My TV has a built in ATSC tuner and basically I only use it to verify if I'm having a problem with my STB or if it's the station.


----------



## gbranch (Mar 7, 2003)

deraz said:


> I believe that this is not always what is best for consumers. When you buy a TV you are being forced to pay for an item that you may never use. Manufacturers should be allowed to offer TVs without tuners. I have D* and my HDTV has a bunch of tuners that will never be used.


I agree that initially, this will cause an average price increase for digital tv's. But, hopefully this is the push that is needed to get high volume production of ATSC tuners going. It's obsene that ATSC STB's are still over $200. How much do NTSC tuners cost? Apparently, not much since VCR manufacturers can put an MTS stereo NTSC tuner in a $70 VCR.

Personally, I like the modular approach, where you purchase a tv, then have the option to purchase an ATSC tuner card that just plugs in. Tuner cards could also be offered for digital cable, Dish and Directv, and even a built-in DVR could be offered.


----------



## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I think it will help more people than just OTA viewers. Most of the new TVs I have seen with digital tuners also support digital cable. I think if its not encrypted you don't even need a cable card for it.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

A few thoughts: There are quite a few manufacturers offering tunerless digital monitors in all size ranges already. You need only look at your local Wal-Mart, Best Buy or Circuit City to find a few.
As to the cost of set top boxes. STB's with ATSC tuners are available for under $200.
VCR's with NTSC tuners can be had for under $40. If you want one with Stereo outputs, you can get a VCR/DVD player combo for under $80, or a DVD recorder for under $100. 
The important thing to remember is that the FCC is talking about DIGITAL TV's. In a few years, analog TV's will be a thing of the past. What will be needed for all the TV's, VCR's, TiVo's and DVD recorders now in people's homes will be ATSC to analog (NTSC) converter boxes. For a person who receives their TV OTA anid is in the market for a new TV, it makes good sense to buy a receiver that has an integrated ATSC tuner.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

One may be able to find the current type of analog televisions with the analog tuners on sale when this happens although most will want to be ready for the future and have the digital tuners. Will these televisions still have the analog tuners so that we can still hookup our current vcr's, dvd players, satellite receivers and cable boxes to them which have the analog output?


----------



## datwell (Jan 26, 2005)

Jacob S said:


> One may be able to find the current type of analog televisions with the analog tuners on sale when this happens although most will want to be ready for the future and have the digital tuners. Will these televisions still have the analog tuners so that we can still hookup our current vcr's, dvd players, satellite receivers and cable boxes to them which have the analog output?


Yep. ATSC tuners are backwards compatable.

--Doug


----------



## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Didn't they just push the "everyone to digital" date back like 5 years anyway?


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

boylehome said:


> I'm glad that they are being more steadfast. The digital shift is going to have it's problems but that will pass. Manufactures should have already been placing the digital tuners in all of the receivers. From what I understand there are problems regarding different standards of decoding formats.


They should have orderd this on December 31st 2003!


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

n8dagr8 said:


> Didn't they just push the "everyone to digital" date back like 5 years anyway?


The bill is still in Congress. I read somewhere it will be ready for Bush to sign in late October.


----------



## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Thats not true, the box needs an NTSC tuner to tune analog RF, I have an ATSC only tuner and it will not display analog channels. I know one of the LG tuners has both.

You won't need an NTSC tuner for your analog devices you just need plain A/V inputs.



datwell said:


> Yep. ATSC tuners are backwards compatable.
> 
> --Doug


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Jacob S said:


> One may be able to find the current type of analog televisions with the analog tuners on sale when this happens although most will want to be ready for the future and have the digital tuners. Will these televisions still have the analog tuners so that we can still hookup our current vcr's, dvd players, satellite receivers and cable boxes to them which have the analog output?


I would expect that when the changeover from analog to digital occurs, set manufacturers will stop including analog tuners in their receivers. This could actually occur sooner than the changeover deadline if market surveys show that an overwhelming majority of TV homes are capable of digital reception.


----------



## gbranch (Mar 7, 2003)

Cholly said:


> As to the cost of set top boxes. STB's with ATSC tuners are available for under $200.


I agree that ATSC STB's CAN be found for under $200, if one is willing to shop around on the internet, however, I contend that the average price is still above that. The average Joe that buys a HDTV monitor at Circuit City is going to buy a STB from Circuit City, not go home and shop on ebay or amazon. CC's lowest price boxes are as follows:

Pro Brand HD Receiver (HD3150) $229.99

Samsung HD Terrestrial Tuner w/DVI Output $249.99

Motorola HD Receiver (HDT101) $249.99

My point still is that ATSC STB's are overpriced. They need to come down to the range of a cable-ready NTSC STB, which is $50-$100.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

gbranch said:


> I agree that ATSC STB's CAN be found for under $200, if one is willing to shop around on the internet, however, I contend that the average price is still above that.
> 
> My point still is that ATSC STB's are overpriced. They need to come down to the range of a cable-ready NTSC STB, which is $50-$100.


One need only go to Wal-Mart to find an OTA ATSC STB for under $200 -- US Digital STB is $199.96, as I recall.
I think it unlikely that we'll see the prices of OTA ATSC boxes as low as those for NTSC boxes (actually, you can get VCR's with stereo NTSC tuners for around $50). Consider the fact that they must include downconversion of HD, ED and SD to 480i and probably component video and S-Video outputs as well. That's what you see in present day ATSC STB's and a big reason they're as expensive as they are. Add to that the need for the capability to handle stations that are multicasting several programs vs. HDTV. 
No doubt in my mind that prices will drop as production ramps up, however I don't anticipate seeing adapters in the $40-$50 price range.


----------



## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Analog tuners will still be needed for such things as games, security cameras, CCTV, etc. To buy a set with no tuners at all (a "monitor") is a bit foolish....maybe the CEA expects you to buy another, analog, tuner later on, as an extra-cost add-on.

They should require an NTSC+ATSC+QAM tuner in every set....then, there would be no hidden problem, and the costs would be negligible. 

BTW, maybe a small OTA antenna should be included, too. All that money spent on EAS is a waste if the Cable is down, or the sat dish is clobbered by a falling tree or building.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

kenglish said:


> Analog tuners will still be needed for such things as games, security cameras, CCTV, etc. To buy a set with no tuners at all (a "monitor") is a bit foolish....maybe the CEA expects you to buy another, analog, tuner later on, as an extra-cost add-on.
> 
> They should require an NTSC+ATSC+QAM tuner in every set....then, there would be no hidden problem, and the costs would be negligible.
> 
> BTW, maybe a small OTA antenna should be included, too. All that money spent on EAS is a waste if the Cable is down, or the sat dish is clobbered by a falling tree or building.


Why would anyone who already owns a VCR need to buy an analog tuner? As to games, security cameras, CCTV,etc -- all will work fine with a monitor that has composite video inputs, or in the case of an analog TV with no composite video inputs, an RF mdulator can be had for under $20 (or use the VCR). Why burden people who have NO need for an analog tuner with excess baggage?


----------



## Markxxx (Sep 19, 2005)

You could also ask, why should I have to pay for a heater in my car when I live in Miami. Sure it gets down to like 40 but I won't freeze. 

You could say that about everything. Why should I pay for a UHF reciever if I only watch VHF? Why should I pay for basic cable when I only watch CNN?

There are minimum levels, the current crisis in New Orleans should serve to illistrate for a couple of bucks more, better to have it than not.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Cholly said:


> Why would anyone who already owns a VCR need to buy an analog tuner? As to games, security cameras, CCTV,etc -- all will work fine with a monitor that has composite video inputs, or in the case of an analog TV with no composite video inputs, an RF mdulator can be had for under $20 (or use the VCR). Why burden people who have NO need for an analog tuner with excess baggage?


Along the lines of another poster who replied...

Why would anyone who owns a DVD player want a VCR? Why would someone who owns a DVR digital recorder want a VCR?

I haven't used my VCR in so many years that I can't even remember if I hooked it up when I moved into the house.

Analog tuners are so dirt-cheap that it only makes sense for any TV to come with one. I second the motion that all TVs including all current over-the-air tuners both digital and analog is the way to go. You may find that it costs more to not get the analog tuner in the short term anyway, since I doubt you'd get a discount for asking them to take it out.

Think cars, and how it doesn't always save you money to eliminate the "extras"...


----------



## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I think analog tuners will be around for a while for basic cable


----------



## ChrisPC (Jun 17, 2003)

I went to Wal-Mart the other day and saw some CRT TVs with ATSC tuners built in, some for just $300. Of course, they were just the cheap 30" Sanyo 4:3 TVs, but they had digital tuners.


----------



## Ken Howe (Aug 9, 2005)

deraz said:


> I believe that this is not always what is best for consumers. When you buy a TV you are being forced to pay for an item that you may never use. Manufacturers should be allowed to offer TVs without tuners. I have D* and my HDTV has a bunch of tuners that will never be used.


I would rather have something and not need it, than to need it and not have it... right?


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ken Howe said:


> I would rather have something and not need it, than to need it and not have it... right?


Along those same lines too... my TV has built-in speakers, but I'm using a surround sound receiver and speakers instead of the TV's speakers... so why did I have to buy speakers?

I agree, that unless the price is outrageously different I would rather have the speakers and the tuners just in case.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Just a note regarding analog tuners: since the analog spectrum will be going bye-bye with the switch to digital TV, there won't be any need for analog tuners, period -- whether it be on TV's or VCR's.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

datwell said:


> Yep. ATSC tuners are backwards compatable.
> 
> --Doug


Some are and some are not. Mine is not.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Cholly said:


> Just a note regarding analog tuners: since the analog spectrum will be going bye-bye with the switch to digital TV, there won't be any need for analog tuners, period -- whether it be on TV's or VCR's.


It is the same spectrum. Digital TV is broadcast over the same spectrum that analog has all this time. Right now the station owners have two frequencies and will give one back eventually.


----------



## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

There will be a need for analog tuners as long as there are any analog sources, unless you want to put $10K worth of encoders and modulators on a security camera in your driveway.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

kenglish said:


> There will be a need for analog tuners as long as there are any analog sources, unless you want to put $10K worth of encoders and modulators on a security camera in your driveway.


You beat me to it... I was going to mention home security cameras.

There are probably a couple of other scenarios if my brain was working.


----------



## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

kenglish said:


> There will be a need for analog tuners as long as there are any analog sources, unless you want to put $10K worth of encoders and modulators on a security camera in your driveway.


My video distribution system includes ten modulators (security cameras, DVD, VHS and receiver outputs) serving all my NTSC-capable TV's. I want NTSC tuning capability built into the sets.


----------

