# How much would pay for the DIRECTV with TiVo DVR?



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Given today's announcements by DIRECTV, as well as TiVo's SEC filing http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443, how much more are you willing to pay for TiVo based DVRs?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Note, the only concept I have is from the SEC filings that indicate TiVo will be getting more $$ for the full set of features. That sounds like higher charges to thems that wants the TiVos...

No formal pricing has been announced yet.

Cheers,
Tom


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## noursegod (Dec 19, 2006)

I am actually perfectly happy with the direction that the DirecTV+ line is heading. I might want to play around with a TiVo enabled firmware upgrade, but at no extra cost.


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## Sackett (May 21, 2007)

Well I was one of the ones that came over to D* after the HR2X just came out. So I have never seen a Tivo one before. I do like the HR2X series, I just hope that they do not give up on these now that Tivo is coming back. The only way would be if they did a swap out for the Tivo ones like they did for the HR2X ones for old Tivo users.


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## jfm (Nov 29, 2006)

I put $3/mo, but it could be higher or lower depending on the product. I will not be one of the first to buy; I don't want to be part of another 2 year firmware development. If it is reliable, has DLB and CIW, I'd pay more.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I see no reason to switch to Tivo if it costs more.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

2 years ago when I first got an HR20... maybe I would have paid a premium for a Tivo.

Now. Not a chance. I'm happy with the 3 HR2x's in my house. They've performed perfectly for me in the 2 years that I've had them.

Unless, of course, the TIVO box is released and it's the DVR to end all DVRs and it becomes must have technology because it's left the HR2x series in it's proverbial taillights.

BUT... as it stands today. I'm not willing to pay more just to have the Tivo name.


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## j2fast (Jul 15, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I see no reason to switch to Tivo if it costs more.


I'd have to agree BUT if I could get things like MRV I may be swayed for a minimal fee. That said, I really don't care about whether its Tivo or not; I would be just as happy with MRV on my existing HR's.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm curious about the Swivel Search, but not enough for a premium. Now--if it could reduce my charge...


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I see no reason to switch to Tivo if it costs more.


Feel exactly the same. Let's see how a HR2x stacks up against this new Tivo before making any calls.


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## jzoomer (Sep 22, 2006)

When I went from an HR10-250 to an HR20-700, my monthly did not go down or up. Why would it go up in the other direction? At the time HR20 was introduced, it was less of a product than the TIVO.

As with any cosumer product, they will have to offer more in the future to maintain the same price that they get today.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

I would not switch to Tivo if it cost more. I am very happy with the HRxx.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

I paid a "Lifetime" DVR Fee back when DirecTV used TiVo DVR's exclusively, and expect that to be honored. DirecTV has been good about that to this point - I don't expect that to change ...


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Ill pay to try out the box, but no way in hell am I paying more of a monthly fee. The HR20 does just fine at its price point


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

jzoomer said:


> When I went from an HR10-250 to an HR20-700, my monthly did not go down or up. Why would it go up in the other direction? At the time HR20 was introduced, it was less of a product than the TIVO.
> 
> As with any cosumer product, they will have to offer more in the future to maintain the same price that they get today.


In the SEC filing by TiVo, the fees to TiVo have increased for all new DIRECTV DVRs based upon the TiVo service. So my expectation is fees will have to increase.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> In the SEC filing by TiVo, the fees to TiVo have increased for all new DIRECTV DVRs based upon the TiVo service. So my expectation is fees will have to increase.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


My expectation is that I would continue to love my HR20 then.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Tom, those fees may be less to DirecTV than the cost of their own in-house development. Of course, saying fees won't go up is akin to predicting the sun won't rise.

However, I don't think the Tivo offering will be an add-on...I think it will be the only DVR offering from DirectV come 2010 (Maybe some grandfathering thrown in for what they can't update)


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

the HR's serve my home entertainment just fine...
so unless the TiVo has something that i must have,
all is fine here for now...


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

Comcast charges $2.95 per box for the tivo service vs their own. Seems plausible the cost would be around the same on directv.

Its also interesting to note that in the comcast world, I'm pretty sure the box still runs the comcast s/w with just a tivo 'layer' over the top. Quite possibly that'll be what happens in the directv world. Unfortunately that created two layers of problems for comcast early adopters...all the bugs that were in the comcast s/w and the bugs introduced by the 'melding'.

I'd pay an extra $5 a month just to get rid of the PIG, the one touch recording, the two touch series link, the two touch no-confirmation delete and to have my shows marked 'keep until I delete" actually get kept until I delete them...


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## mattpol (Aug 20, 2006)

I'd pay *any * price they charge.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

I voted $5, but that is only if it is a single charge. I would not pay $5 per box.


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## BlueSnake (Oct 6, 2006)

As a Premier subscriber my monthly bill is already high enough. I am not interested in paying any more for anything.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Feature set/ease of use/reliability are more important than price to me. If the new TiVo box is better in these areas, then I will pay for it, If it is not, then I won't.


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## turls (Jul 8, 2006)

dmurphy said:


> I paid a "Lifetime" DVR Fee back when DirecTV used TiVo DVR's exclusively, and expect that to be honored. DirecTV has been good about that to this point - I don't expect that to change ...


Yeah, any press release should have confirmed this. But I guess we wait.


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

mattpol said:


> I'd pay *any * price they charge.


My wife would too, but she doesn't pay the bill! :lol: :lol:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I see no reason to switch to Tivo if it costs more.


I'm well satisfied with the progress in the HR2* series, so I wouldn't be willing to trade the devil I know for the devil I don't, even if free. Does anyone think that D* can wave a magic wand at a TIVO hybrid and make it work correctly right out of the box, the first time? Right....

This new product, if and when it comes to market will suffer the same developmental issues that any new product experiences. There is no free lunch, even if it's free.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Said none. Wife even conceded she is happy with the HR20-100 in the bedroom and she fought me tooth and nail to keep her DirecTivo.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Intriguing ... very intriguing. 

Already pay $100+/month so another few dollars makes no difference (personal opinion of course).

DLB

MRV

TiVo Peanut Remote

TiVo Photo's application

Still love the HR2x but ... Intriguing. Very intriguing indeed.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Intriguing ... very intriguing.
> 
> Already pay $100+/month so another few dollars makes no difference (personal opinion of course).
> 
> ...


And would it have SWM?

hmmmmmm


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

rahlquist said:


> And would it have SWM?
> 
> hmmmmmm


Yes, that's mostly hardware.


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## grape (Jul 23, 2008)

I originally put down $0, but I think I would pay $3-$5 more if it was a significant improvement. Like sixto, I'm already paying close to $100 so what is a couple of $$ more if the experience is better.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, that's mostly hardware.


And how many tuners would the Box have then? 4 would be cool


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## cadet502 (Jun 17, 2005)

I'm on course to upgrade all my DVRs to HR2X series. Mostly to make the interface consistent for DW. There are features on the HR2X I don't want to give up, and probably would not opt to load Tivoware on only 1 or 2 of 4. So I gotta go with $0.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

I voted $5/month. Meaning my bill would go up a total of $5 given my current set up. 

The other option is to pay about $1 extra per TIVO DVR.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

I really couldn't even begin to say without seeing what both versions offered at the time both are available.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

i would not pay any extra. i am more than happy with the direction that we have been heading with the hr2x's.


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## EricRobins (Feb 9, 2005)

Would D* consider disabling certain features (e.g., MediaShare and DoD) in the standard HR2X series and only enabling them if you upgraded to the TiVo-enabled unit?

I guess I need to be careful about giving them ideas.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

It would be hard for me to justify spending additional $$$ for Tivo. Having never had Tivo, I don't know what I am missing but my family and I are content with the HR series DVR's.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Given today's announcements by DIRECTV, as well as TiVo's SEC filing http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443, how much more are you willing to pay for TiVo based DVRs?


Tom... I thought we were going to wait 6-9 months before we started these discussions... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Brian Hanasky (Feb 22, 2008)

I like my HR20's. I delayed my switch to HD because of the Tivo but once I switched I find the HR20's to be better. One feature I really like is the ability to futz around with lists while the sound and little picture remain. With the Tivo you had to completely leave a program to look at your lists. 

I voted $0.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

At this time I voted just looking. Before I say I'd go to a Tivo platform I'd want to see exactly what's on D*/Tivo boxes this time around. Will they be 'crippled' like the prior boxes where you don't have all the features that are on the non-DirecTV Tivo boxes or full featured. What features will D* have on their DVR's by then that might not be on the Tivo boxes. Too early to say what I'd pay, if anything.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Where is the option that I don't want to switch? Other than DLB, I really, truly prefer the current software to Tivo (and I am running the lastest HD Tivo in my house so I am *not* comparing it to the HR10 software).


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

I love the TiVo but one DVR fee is enough for me. $0.00


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

mattpol said:


> I'd pay *any * price they charge.


Quick! Everyone run! The tivo fanboy virus is out in the open! :lol:


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I vote 0 as well. I liked Tivo and I like the HR20. I also liked my 508 (aside from it lacking Name Based Recording) and my 721 back in my SD Dish days. I'd guess that for those of us who take DVR ownership to the next level, the name on the box is not nearly as important as the feature set and reliablity. The HR20/21 now comes with a pretty robust set of features and hasn't let me down on recording a show in ... forever.. 

While I welcome Tivo back to the DirecTV family, I don't welcome them to my wallet.


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> Note, the only concept I have is from the SEC filings that indicate TiVo will be getting more $$ for the full set of features. That sounds like higher charges to thems that wants the TiVos...
> 
> No formal pricing has been announced yet.
> 
> ...


More $$ compared to the now redundant in-house development team which will surely be dismantled in 3... 2.... ?


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

I voted $0, but not for the reason you might think.
I just don't want to tip them off as to how much I would really be willing to pay!


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

Zero for me. Even though I've had major problems with my HR20, it seems to be working OK now (after a torturous process and endless "updates" I don't like). My bill is plenty high enough and there is no way I'm going to be paying even more if I have a choice in the matter.


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## primetime (Mar 23, 2007)

I voted $0 but in all reality I probably wouldn't switch unless the Tivo box has some serious upgrades to the HR10 which I can't stand using anymore. 

First requirement would be an easy plug and play upgradable hard drive. Both of my HR20s are hooked to external drives via eSATA. 30 HRs or even 50 HRs of HD recording space just isn't enough with season passes, movies, and sporting events for my wife and I. I am not willing to hack a machine or open the chasis to try an accomplish a bigger hard drive.

The Tivo menus need to be improved so I can actually search for a show or pull up the list of recorded shows while still watching TV. I just can't stand the loss of the picture when trying to search for shows to record, reorder, or look through the playlist while using the HR10. 

I am so used to the work around for DLB it just doesn't rank that high for me anymore as a need or want.

MRV would be a huge improvement, my wife would love it, but again a bigger hard drive (or easy plug n play option) would be a requirement and a higher priority for me.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

dmurphy said:


> I paid a "Lifetime" DVR Fee back when DirecTV used TiVo DVR's exclusively, and expect that to be honored. DirecTV has been good about that to this point - I don't expect that to change ...


That's my situation and I'd expect the same. When I upgraded to the 80 hour S2 Hughes D-TiVo, then to HR10-250, I paid no extra cost other than for the cost of the units themselves. But, if DIREC*TV* allows TiVo to control it, that could go out the window. Since I was told I have to keep a DIREC*TV* with TiVo unit active on my account to keep my Lifetime DVR status, I would be interested in upgrading to a MPEG 4-capable unit, but if I'm charged $200 to transfer Lifetime like TiVo likes to do with their standalone DVRs, I think I'll just go to the programming package where HD and DVR are included in the charge, drop TiVo and switch to a second DIREC*TV* HD DVR.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

In order to switch I'd some really good reasons to.

I love my HR2x's and I'd hate to say it but DLB might not be enough. Lets just say DLB isn't the only consideration anymore.

How much I'm willing to pay...depends.

Mike


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

We had a Series 2 with a lifetime subscription before the move to D*. From day one my wife has preferred the GUI on our HR21's (go figure). Lucky me!!

D* would have to reduce my bill for us to go back to a TIVO GUI, or add a feature we just could not live without............

:biggthump


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## mattpol (Aug 20, 2006)

elwaylite said:


> Quick! Everyone run! The tivo fanboy virus is out in the open! :lol:


Guilty as charged: I am a total fanboy of reliability, stability, and usability.

I get that the the mystery of wondering whether your DVR is going to record a scheduled program keeps a lot of people here busy and entertained, but I tend to view my DVR as more of a TV-viewing device and less of a science project. I think the entertainment should come from DirecTV's wonderful variety of programming, not trying to see how i can fix IKD recordings. I am also a fanboy of having a device that respond to remote commands within 30-seconds of pressing the button. That's just me, of course.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Not a bit. I'm already paying a "DVR fee." Seems to me that should cover it. If Directv wants to give some of that money to Tivo, so be it.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

This is something I can't wait to look at, but at this time I just don't know how to answer. Depends on what this actually is. Is it the current boxes with some extra TiVo-centric features added (like TiVo wishlists and Suggestions), is it a completely different OS? A completly different box? Would I LOSE any features of the current design (like the PIG)? Chances are that I'll jump at the opportunity to pay a little extra for TiVo, but how much really depends on the implementation. Assuming it does EVERYTHING I would LIKE it to do (provide the TiVo features I like, with some of the extras of the HR2x like PIG and interactive channels, while going back to the stability and smoother operation of my old TiVos), I'd pay in excess of $5/month, but probably not $10. But if it was just some of those things, just a few bucks.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

jzoomer said:


> When I went from an HR10-250 to an HR20-700, my monthly did not go down or up. Why would it go up in the other direction? At the time HR20 was introduced, it was less of a product than the TIVO.


My thoughts too. I voted 0.00


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Now we know what that $7.99 enhanced fee that's listed under the DVR fee is for.


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## cdavis0720 (Jun 25, 2006)

I voted $0.00 BUT that is subject to change depending on a couple of things. 

Will it be the only way to get MRV?
Will it still have the Media Share or will that be only on the HR series?
Will it be the only way to ever get DLB? (that is moving down on my list as time goes by)

Basically today I can't honestly answer the question and state without a doubt that I'll stick to it!

Carl


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

I wouldn't use a Tivo ever again. I would just do with out a dvr.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I was a huge TiVo fan until getting my first two HR20's. I personally like the HR2x's so much more that I will be more than happy to stay with what I have now. So my answer is $0.00.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

After all we've been thru with the HRxxs, please don't tell me that TiVo is trying to get back in the picture again. My system is finally stable, all my TiVos are going on eBay shortly and I wouldn't pay a cent for a TiVo again. 

Rich


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Tom, those fees may be less to DirecTV than the cost of their own in-house development. Of course, saying fees won't go up is akin to predicting the sun won't rise.
> 
> However, I don't think the Tivo offering will be an add-on...I think it will be the only DVR offering from DirectV come 2010 (Maybe some grandfathering thrown in for what they can't update)


You have made this statement or similar several times now, Ken. Do you care to elaborate on why you feel this way?


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

justlgi said:


> More $$ compared to the now redundant in-house development team which will surely be dismantled in 3... 2.... ?


Keep in mind that the long-term plan was to consolidate the hardware platforms. That in-house team could very well be responsible for all of the receivers in the not-so-distant future. Consolidating the software to one build with features enabled or disabled makes a great deal of sense. One development tree internally and one externally is much less expensive than the numerous setups in the wild now.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Here's what Swanni has to say:



> News
> DIRECTV & TiVo Team For New HD DVR
> The deal reunites the two companies.
> By Swanni
> ...


[Edit: (Tom Robertson) Redacted copyrighted material to protect the owner.]

Rich


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Here's what Swanni has to say:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am glad we covered it in enough detail that he was able to put together an article.


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## mpar1 (Mar 20, 2008)

For DLB, my wife would make sure I pay the extra money, whatever the case.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I am glad we covered it in enough detail that he was able to put together an article.


:lol:


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## johnck78 (Feb 19, 2007)

DLB, MRV and Tivo2Go are Priceless!!!!!

Give me DLB and MRV in my HR20 and I prolly wouldn't switch til it was dead!!


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

MIAMI1683 said:


> I wouldn't use a Tivo ever again. *I would just do with out a dvr.*


NEVER!


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I am glad we covered it in enough detail that he was able to put together an article.


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## garbec (Aug 23, 2007)

My most missed feature from TIVO was Suggestions. I would pay to get Suggestions back.

But the features that would really open my wallet are:
* media sharing (between tivos)
* TIVO to go (transfer programs onto my PC)

AND I want dual buffers!


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Without reading the rest of the posts here, I'm maxed out at work, I voted $0.00 because it is a DVR and should not cost more but be the very same...IMHO!


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

$0... I like the HR20 now. No point in rocking the boat. Although I want changes to the interface, the truth is that it works well now. It's easy to use. Just no point to pay for something I already have.


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

$0.00 
My HR20 does everything I need it to do.
Not to say I would not be interested in looking at the new TIVO in the future I just figure the $5.99 DVR fee should cover any DVR.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

$0
I don't need the little Tivo guy waving at me while I'm in the menu's. The HR2x platform gives me everything I need and I wouldn't pay anything for a Tivo upgrade unless is was a *significant* upgrade in features. Even then I probably wouldn't do it if I'm still satisfied with what I have.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Maybe $2? Possibly a bit more. $5 is a bit much IMO as I am already paying $5.99 for the DVR fee and $5 for an extra receiver. That would be getting up there with cable pricing 

Honestly I have been really happy with the HR2x series and so it will depend on what the Tivo based units are like. Frankly my HR2x can do MORE than the Tivos I have had ever could, so at this point they have some work to do if they want me to pay more for it. 

I am actually kinda sad they are going the Tivo route as it will take attention away from the HR2x series a bit which I think has a ton of potential. People who complain about it must not have seen the other DVRs out there and just how amazing what Directv has come up with really is. Simple to use, powerful, and in the future stable as well hopefully.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

I voted zero, because no-one knows what features I would be getting and what I would be giving up. And for those people who keep saying they want TiVo because of reliability issues, what makes you believe the software would be more reliable? It would actually be a new set of software, running (it appears) on the same hardware platform as the existing HR2x DVRS. If you want to see what sort of problems this can cause, go look at the Comcast TiVo posts. The product has been much longer in development than was forecast, is only in limited availablity, and has many problems. 
So ask me again in 2010


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gregjones said:


> I am glad we covered it in enough detail that he was able to put together an article.


That's some racket he's got there. Say what you will about him, he's making a living out of gathering info and writing articles about that info. I used to converse with him and he is pleasant as long as you agree with him. Gets kinda snappy if you don't. As far as being an entrepreneur, he's nailed it. As far as being knowledgeable about the many subjects he writes about, well...

Rich


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

I was a long time Tivo user and loved them. Having said that, I'm now very happy with my two HR's. I see no reason to pay *any* premium to get a Tivo.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Maybe $2? Possibly a bit more. $5 is a bit much IMO as I am already paying $5.99 for the DVR fee and $5 for an extra receiver. That would be getting up there with cable pricing
> 
> Honestly I have been really happy with the HR2x series and so it will depend on what the Tivo based units are like. Frankly my HR2x can do MORE than the Tivos I have had ever could, so at this point they have some work to do if they want me to pay more for it.
> 
> I am actually kinda sad they are going the Tivo route as it will take attention away from the HR2x series a bit which I think has a ton of potential. People who complain about it must not have seen the other DVRs out there and just how amazing what Directv has come up with really is. Simple to use, powerful, and in the future stable as well hopefully.


That was a great post! My thoughts exactly. We've been thru an almost two year nightmare and the 20/21s are finally stable and now this. Will this ever end? And I agree with you. I had Ultimate DVRs first and many TiVos and none of them could be called the equal of the 20/21s.

Well, at least everyone that missed their DLBs will finally be appeased. Good for them. And the MRV advocates too.

Rich


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

I loved my 2 Philips Tivos.
I love my HR20s, but would still like a Tivo if;
1.) I get media share and all of the other wonderful things my HR20 does/will do,
and
2.) I didn't have to pay any more, or at least only had a modest one time lease upgrade.


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

I'm already paying for DVR service, the same I paid for Tivo DVR service before. There is no reason I should pay more just because directv is going back to the same DVR service I originally signed up for.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Grentz said:


> I am actually kinda sad they are going the Tivo route as it will take attention away from the HR2x series a bit which I think has a ton of potential.


I agree. I see this new relationship with Tivo doing one of two things......

Lighting a fire under the HR20 developers to add features and improvements that make the HR20 better than the what the Tivo option offers

or....

give the HR20 developers an excuse for not producing great new things for the DirecTV DVR "because they can get a Tivo if they don't like the DirecTV DVR"

I sure hope it's the former instead of the latter, but the lack of incentive for that worries me. What does DirecTV care if a subscriber chooses Tivo over their DVR? They still get the programming subscription fees either way, which is where the bulk of the money is at, so where is their incentive to keep an ongoing agressive development effort going for their version of the DVR software?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Not a bit. I'm already paying a "DVR fee." Seems to me that should cover it. If Directv wants to give some of that money to Tivo, so be it.


Ditto (or +1).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I can't decide this until I actually see the unit and its features.. but unless it did something that I can't even think of yet, I they'd have to pay me to switch... I still think their gui is insulting to my intelligence... I'm not a kid, don't make me look at a screen that is geared towards the intelligence of a 5 year old...


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I wouldn’t pay anything. I’ve never owned a TiVo, but have used them at friend’s houses. I prefer the HR2x’s interface as it was much like that of the UTV that I had originally. I understand TiVo’s have features like MRV and DLB that are lacking in the HR2x, but that’s something I expect we’ll see added before we see another D* TiVo.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

A lot. To get an actual SLO-MO BUTTON which for a sports fan is critical. To get instant button-push response. To get bug-free operation. To get OTA recordings which actually work with trick play. To get instant hash mark advance. Etc etc. All of which I had for 10 years with Tivo.

D* makes garbage. It belongs in a landfill. Tivo makes stuff that works, the first time, every time. And their interface gives you what you need, not what some psycho anti-sports housewife thinks you need.

If D* customers were given choice, how long do you think D* hardware would last? About as long as reboot takes. That's when my units started failing.

I have no idea why Tivo was so good. It just was. 

I have no idea why D* hardware and software/firmware sucks. It just does.


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## MichaelP (Dec 5, 2006)

I would not pay anything extra. I took the HR-20 because that was my only choice to get Hi Def programming from DirecTV, so I see no reason why I should have to pay extra to get what I wanted in the first place. 

Regards,
Michael


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> In the SEC filing by TiVo, the fees to TiVo have increased for all new DIRECTV DVRs based upon the TiVo service. So my expectation is fees will have to increase.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


According to that article, not only will they *increase immediately upon release of the HD-TIVO*, but they will then *ESCALATE starting in 2010* (and I'll bet every year after that).

All you TIVO-HUGGERS should be very leary of that new agreement.
Be prepared to be sucked into annual increases for that service.


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## mattpol (Aug 20, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> A lot. To get an actual SLO-MO BUTTON which for a sports fan is critical. To get instant button-push response. To get bug-free operation. To get OTA recordings which actually work with trick play. To get instant hash mark advance. Etc etc. All of which I had for 10 years with Tivo.
> 
> D* makes garbage. It belongs in a landfill. Tivo makes stuff that works, the first time, every time. And their interface gives you what you need, not what some psycho anti-sports housewife thinks you need.
> 
> ...


Stop this praise, you must be a fanboy


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## bsnelson (Jul 6, 2007)

I said $5, but there's a catch: I want to be able to have more than two units in the same room. That's a big problem with the HR2x for me, only two remote command sets. If this new TiVo box was similarly restricted, it'd lose a lot of luster for me. 

Now, on the other hand, to have a box with none of that HORRIBLE NASTY TERRIBLE HATED HATED HATED PIG/PIL... shoot, maybe I'd pay more than $5 for that. 

Brad


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Voted 0. I'm already paying a DVR fee. If D* wants me to sign up for another 2 year hitch by getting a HD DVR, they can make one with features I want (read DLB for one) and that is rock solid reliable. (I have 4 friends with HR2xes. Three have no problems and one HR21 is a disaster. 3 of the 4 complained about the quality of the installers, and the HR2x appears to be pretty sensitive to the install quality, from what I've observed here. FWIW)

Don't care particularly about TIVO one way or the other as an interface, but any DVR has to be reliable and DLB, while not an absolute, is pretty important. So if the HR2x team can accomplish that, I'd get an HR2x for no added fee vs. a TIVO with an added fee.


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## coacho (Aug 21, 2007)

Gladly pay to get TIVO back and dump the HR2X and I probably will.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I have a feeling that Tivo will cost at least an extra $10 per month, and that more than one box will cost as well, but on a diminishing scale... Kind of like their standalone units now...


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

I voted zero... I loved my TiVo (and still love it, as I still own it...just for my SD content)... But my HR20/21 are both hummin' along just fine thank you...

I guess the bigger question is if it was a 0.00 additional cost, how much effort would I take to swap them for TiVos... Not sure I would put a lot of energy in it...


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

BlueSnake said:


> As a Premier subscriber my monthly bill is already high enough. I am not interested in paying any more for anything.


tell me about it, my Directv bill is huge each month. so.... i'd rather not have to pay more. Directv ought to be happy we use their service when Dish costs alot less! and Dish now has tons of HD content.


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## hyde76 (Nov 26, 2007)

voted 0. I didn't pay anything to switch the HR20-700 and I don't expect to pay anything to have to switch back. i'd drop the HR20 like a hot potato. It's cool and all but I miss the clock in the lower right hand corner of the screen and I'll be thrilled to get it back.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

$0

Unless it brings some very fancy features that do something I want, they can keep the Tivo software.


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

hyde76 said:


> It's cool and all but I miss the clock in the lower right hand corner of the screen and I'll be thrilled to get it back.


Huh?
What clock in the bottom right corner?
   
You sure that your not referring to a function of your old television?

Only clock that tivo's have is in the guide/info banners, just like the divo's have.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Supervolcano said:


> Huh?
> What clock in the bottom right corner?
> 
> You sure that your not referring to a function of your old television?
> ...


Are you forgetting the backdoor code to enable the clock in the lower right? Was a nice feature--especially on DLP TVs 

Cheers,
Tom


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I agree with Stuart 100%. 
For me Tivo may have been a prefered option 4 months ago but the playing field has now leveled and the HR20 firmware is pretty solid.



Stuart Sweet said:


> I see no reason to switch to Tivo if it costs more.


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Are you forgetting the backdoor code to enable the clock in the lower right? Was a nice feature--especially on DLP TVs
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Ooops, I stand corrected.


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## hyde76 (Nov 26, 2007)

anytime it reset itself the clock was missing and I knew it had rebooted. not that it happened very often. SPS9S is all it takes. I don't even think you needed the backdoor codes. My three codes were:
SPS9S Clock
SPS30S 30 second skip
SPS<pause>S quick disappear of the play bar
and I was a very happy camper.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Are you forgetting the backdoor code to enable the clock in the lower right? Was a nice feature--especially on DLP TVs
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I'm betting it has a lot less "backdoors" with the new regulations from providers..


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> I'm betting it has a lot less "backdoors" with the new regulations from providers..


I'll bet that it not only has no back doors, it will have no side doors either. As paranoid as the content providers are, does anyone really thing they will allow a HD DVR, that, in theory should do 1080p to be hackable? File copying, program extraction, etc? Think not.


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## gquiring (Jan 8, 2006)

I am actually disappointed D* is going back to Tivo's. I prefer the HR2x interface. It is much easier and faster to use. I love the double record feature to setup a series recording. The Tivo is a PITA in that department. And not loosing the audio and video when doing various functions is also a nice touch for the HR2x. I hope D* continues the HR2x series and only adds Tivo for the few that must have it.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

We have no idea what this means, will they adopt a true lease plan like cable where you pay zero upfront? Or keep this insane buy it but don't own it scam?

Tivo developed their product carefully and thoughtfully. The only reason we ended up with the junk we have now is that it was financially efficient and convenient for Murdoch to use his existing UK companies' leftover hardware. This was not designed or planned out, juts a shotgun marriage for Murdoch's convenience.

The Tivo box will be superb. Done right. And it will make the D* look like the half-a**ed toy it is.


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## mpar1 (Mar 20, 2008)

I shouldn't have to pay anything. My Tivo Lifetime service is grandfathered so long as I keep my account with DirecTV. Even though my HR10-250 has been deactivated my Lifetime service should remain.

Wish me luck, huh?


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

I would pay a buck or two only because it makes the wife happy, if it where my choice only if it were the same.


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## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

I have (still) an HR10-250. It is currently not in use. I liked the TiVo interface, but I like the HRxx's too. DLB is the only thing I (occasionally-mostly during football season) miss from the TiVo. I see it as a viable alternative to the HR's, for those that prefer the interface; but I also see even more expansion of the HR's capabilities due to this alliance.
I just can't see one as being more 'valuable' than another. Just my .02.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

I voted $0. I'll only switch if the new DVR ends up being more stable than the HR-2x. I don't expect that to happen within the next 18 months.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

dmurphy said:


> I paid a "Lifetime" DVR Fee back when DirecTV used TiVo DVR's exclusively, and expect that to be honored. DirecTV has been good about that to this point - I don't expect that to change ...


I'm in the same boat. If my lifetime coverd me, I might get a tivo box to check it out. If it cost me any extra, I wouldn't bother.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't need the little Tivo guy waving at me while I'm in the menu's.


:lol: That's actually the only thing I really miss.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

mpar1 said:


> I shouldn't have to pay anything. My Tivo Lifetime service is grandfathered so long as I keep my account with DirecTV. Even though my HR10-250 has been deactivated my Lifetime service should remain.
> 
> Wish me luck, huh?


We'll have to wait and see. You don't have a Tivo Lifetime anymore, you have a DVR lifetime. They might allow that to continue on their DVR's, but the tivo features would be extra. Who knows.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> bonscott87 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't need the little Tivo guy waving at me while I'm in the menu's.
> ...


Guess you'll have to get a video of the TiVo guy and put it in the PIG when you play with the menus...


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Coming in a bit late to the poll - already 5 pages of comments.

I would not pay more myself, and it appears that better than 60% of the responses feel the same.

But a 40% minority has strong market potential, very much enough to justify developing and marketing the product.

Carl


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Coming in a bit late to the poll - already 5 pages of comments.
> 
> I would not pay more myself, and it appears that better than 60% of the responses feel the same.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that that minority includes the bottom two responses (10% which were "just looking" and "wouldn't switch if my bill was reduced"). Also 27% would only pay $5 or less.

If tivo is thinking of charging more than $5 per month, there's currently only 8% that would pay that.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Right now I use an HR10. It's an HD Tivo w/D*.. I don't pay anything more for it, so why should I with another HD Tivo??


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Que said:


> Right now I use an HR10. It's an HD Tivo w/D*.. I don't pay anything more for it, so why should I with another HD Tivo??


Because the higher fees to TiVo might mean higher fees from TiVo users. But only on the new boxes. HR10-250s "should" remain the same.

Cheers,
Tom


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Voted $0. Happy with what I have.


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## DanER40 (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't miss Tivo one bit.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

There would have to be value added with the Tivo as compared to the Directv DVR (and DLB isn't enough). The only positive I saw with the HDVR2 I have (deactivated) is stability (and my HR20 has been pretty stable recently).


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Guess you'll have to get a video of the TiVo guy and put it in the PIG when you play with the menus...


Tivo now has PIG? The lack of PIG was one of my biggest peeves with my HDVR2.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Was a joking response to thems who missed the TiVo guy on their HR2x. So I suggested they put the TiVo guy in their HR2x PIG. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

I would hope that the DVR fee covered all DVRs, not the per-TiVo fee that TiVO charges on the outside. THis is the way it is now, and I would expect it to stay that way.

So $0.00

Unasked is the far more relevant question: How much of a one-time fee would you pay to upgrade an HR2x to a HD TiVo? 

OTOH, if you mean that I trade straight across, or put TiVo software on the HR20, at no one-time fee, well then I'll pay $10/month. Is that the plan?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I would hope that the DVR fee covered all DVRs, not the per-TiVo fee that TiVO charges on the outside. THis is the way it is now, and I would expect it to stay that way.
> 
> So $0.00
> 
> ...


No announced plan at this time. We'll likely wait for another 10-12 months before we see those details.

Cheers,
Tom


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Alright Tom! Time for BED! Over 60 posts since 4:00 this morning. If this were an Olympic event, you get the Gold! 

Looks like it's $5.00 (read $4.99) to add the Tivo service. I voted 0, but I know there are those who see the value in Tivo vs. any other DVR platform. Truth be told, they are getting a fortune from the standalone boxes and 5 bucks is really nothing in the Tivo scheme of things.

Another big question is...will DirecTV go 5 bucks per account, or will they hire Charlie's accountants and go 5 bucks per box?

For me...I'm just rooting for the guys on the HR staff. I personally think they've done a helluva job over the last 20+ months and look forward to more of their creations. The open CE program must be a first in the DVR business and, for the DVR fanatic, is one of the most exciting DVR events since 1999.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I voted 0.00 and don't plan to switch, but let's look at this realistically. Surely the TiVo slowness that many people complain about will not be an issue with the new software. I can't see DirecTV paying more for a platform that does not perform at least as well as what they already have in the HR series.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

While I really like the HR series, I still like my TiVo. I'd pay more for:

DLB
Working PC interface (just like my TIVo does now).
Ability to transfer programs to my notebook to watch while traveling (TiVo does that now)
MRV
The TiVo guide vs. the grid guide
Better playlist sorting

First and foremost, though is DLB... with football season upon us, I really miss that feature.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Tom, those fees may be less to DirecTV than the cost of their own in-house development. Of course, saying fees won't go up is akin to predicting the sun won't rise.
> 
> However, I don't think the Tivo offering will be an add-on...I think it will be the only DVR offering from DirectV come 2010 (Maybe some grandfathering thrown in for what they can't update)


Interesting theory - the press release tends to point in a different direction from what you are speculating. At this time and until the actual release of the units sometime late in 2009 (speculated R&D time overrun) this is the only validated, published information that is available.

Sure the fees will go up, this is normal and can be bet on, but some of the verbage in the press release seems to indicate that there will be a surcharge for using the new equipment over the inhouse equipment. as it stands now - they have way to much invested in the HR2X series and the press release states it will continue to be the primary shipment choice.



> DIRECTV will continue to develop and offer its own portfolio of industry leading set top boxes as *primary offerings* to both new and existing customers. This new TiVo box will be offered as an alternative choice to those DIRECTV customers who would like to add TiVo to a full line up of DIRECTV services.





> "As the industry's content and technology leader, DIRECTV has a long-standing reputation for developing innovative, advanced products and services, including our highly successful series of DVRs and HD DVRs," said Chase Carey, president and CEO, DIRECTV, Inc. "We will continue to work with TiVo and make this new product available to all new and existing DIRECTV customers who may want to add TiVo on top of our industry leading experience."


Theses tend to indicate that they are not planning to replace their line of units



> Like prior products developed by TiVo and DIRECTV, the new HD offering will be marketed and sold by DIRECTV nationally to its entire customer base as part of its growing portfolio of brand name video offerings. Specific consumer pricing and packaging will be announced in conjunction with DIRECTV's launch of the product.


This tends to indicate that there will be a different pricing structure for the new units


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

noursegod said:


> I am actually perfectly happy with the direction that the DirecTV+ line is heading. I might want to play around with a TiVo enabled firmware upgrade, but at no extra cost.


Ditto.


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## mpar1 (Mar 20, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> We'll have to wait and see. You don't have a Tivo Lifetime anymore, you have a DVR lifetime. They might allow that to continue on their DVR's, but the tivo features would be extra. Who knows.


Actually, I am now paying a DVR fee on my HR21s. But, if I were to acquire another Tivo for DirecTV, I would fight to the hilt for no fee on my account.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

I will pay what ever it takes, to have one, when thay first come out. After that , we will have to see.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

mpar1 said:


> Actually, I am now paying a DVR fee on my HR21s. But, if I were to acquire another Tivo for DirecTV, I would fight to the hilt for no fee on my account.


Gotcha, you paid the tivo lifetime directly to tivo and not to directv (which is the way it was at first), it didn't carry over when you removed your directivos.

That's another interesting scenario. I don't believe D* would grant you back that lifetime, because IIRC, they never received the money from your lifetime purchase. That money went to tivo. In the new development, DVR fees will go to D*, so there's no benefit to them to revert you back to lifetime.

Might not play out that way, and it'll be interesting to see how it does, but there's certainly some complications with various scenarios.


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## turls (Jul 8, 2006)

RobertE said:


> I'll bet that it not only has no back doors, it will have no side doors either. As paranoid as the content providers are, does anyone really thing they will allow a HD DVR, that, in theory should do 1080p to be hackable? File copying, program extraction, etc? Think not.


Paranoid much? I kid. But if it was as bad as you say, they would have taken it away from current models by now. It wouldn't be that difficult.

Also, if current Tivos have backdoors DirecTV ones likely will too.

EDIT: I wasn't clear, I'm only talking about the simple stuff Tivo built in like 30 sec skip codes.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

turls said:


> Paranoid much? I kid. But if it was as bad as you say, they would have taken it away from current models by now. It wouldn't be that difficult.
> 
> Also, if current Tivos have backdoors DirecTV ones likely will too.


Thats a broad presumption. Keep in mind, if indeed they use the HRx series for their hardware it has not to the best of my knowledge been cracked ever. Also keep in mind that the firmware in the HRx I believe its been stated is stored encrypted so the DMCA comes to bear. I dont think the delivery or storage method of firmware will be changing.

That said its not impossible there will be a hack done on it but at this point its all conjecture. Besides hacking talk of this nature is generally discouraged here.


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## JohnSorTivo (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm am completely unhappy with my HR2x. It would take a pretty high premium for me NOT to switch to the Tivo based DVR.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

$0. I like the current state of my HR20's over the HR10 I owned and see no reason to switch. The only thing the HR20's are missing that I want is DLB. And I much prefer the current backlit remote over the TiVo remotes.


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## turls (Jul 8, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> Thats a broad presumption. Keep in mind, if indeed they use the HRx series for their hardware it has not to the best of my knowledge been cracked ever. Also keep in mind that the firmware in the HRx I believe its been stated is stored encrypted so the DMCA comes to bear. I dont think the delivery or storage method of firmware will be changing.
> 
> That said its not impossible there will be a hack done on it but at this point its all conjecture. Besides hacking talk of this nature is generally discouraged here.


I'm not talking about hacking, I'm talking about 30 sec skip codes and the like.


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## JerseyBoy (Sep 1, 2006)

I would pay NOT to have to use TiVo. The hr10-250 was the worst product (of any type) that I have ever owned.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

turls said:


> Paranoid much? I kid. But if it was as bad as you say, they would have taken it away from current models by now. It wouldn't be that difficult.
> 
> Also, if current Tivos have backdoors DirecTV ones likely will too.
> 
> EDIT: I wasn't clear, I'm only talking about the simple stuff Tivo built in like 30 sec skip codes.


Not sure if the current HR2X's are hackable, have not seen anything about it. Believe the code is in flash. Then again this is all supposition. 30 sec skip is native on the HR2X's series


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## lucky13 (Nov 27, 2006)

I voted $1, but that's a number without context.

The only TiVo I had before the HR20 was a standalone SD. I had it hooked up to my Sammy DirecTV MPEG 2 receiver. I rarely watched 2 live events this way (DirecTV and OTA input), and I don't think I even knew about DLB before reading about it here.

The ONLY feature I miss from my TiVo (aside from the too-cute but endearing graphics) is the TiVo Guide, which is far superior to any cable or DirecTV guide I used before (I never had Ultimate or Replay), and much better than the DirecTV workaround (press INFO on the channel in the guide). 

What would I pay extra to get a TiVo? Depends on what features it has, and what TiVo features might still migrate to the HR2x series.

How much more would I pay just for the guide? A buck a month sounds right.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

If it had the feature set this one has;
http://gizmodo.com/5045376/niveus-media-dvrs-will-tease-your-tivo-take-his-lunch-money

I'd pay, especially if it could do 8 tuners for D*!


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## NoOTA (Apr 7, 2008)

After 4 months, STILL not liking the HR21 experience compared to DTivo. The HR STILL hase random audio lip sync issues and audio skipping (started Mythbusters and audio skipping ever 1 second. pause, backup and it went away. WHY am I paying more for this when my DTivo NEVER did that?)

HATE the DLB work around. Haven't used it since got the unit and forgot how to do it. Lets see, went down to DTivo on "basement TV" and just pressed LiveTV to switch to other tuner.

Tivo CHANGED the way we watched TV (no longer watching comercials. HR21 is a glorified VCR and has changed us back to watching more live TV again because of no DLB I guess. (DTV is it THAT hard to add real DLB to the HR21 units????)

Bottom line:
I always stayed with DTV because of the DTivo, even though D* was more $$$/month than E* for the programming we needed, but E*s DRV is just not Tivo either. Now with the HR, in 20 months when my 2 year contract was up, I was going to SERIOUSLY look at E*. If I can have DTivoHD, I will stay with Direct.

Good move on keeping this customer happy in the long run, even though the HR21 adds stress to my life right now and I really do NOT like the HR21 experience.

No OTA


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow! What happened to all the posts that said"I want Tivo back at any costs"!. :lol: 

I guess that wanting is not the same as having.Still DirecTV deserves kudos for giving their subscribers an option and for maintaining the DirecTV DVR+ line which should help limit Tivo's increases and gives DirecTV another option agalnst unreasonable agreements.:sure:


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

While I'm happy to see the announcement, primarily so that the TiVO whiners can finally be happy.

I love my HR20 and have no desire to have a TiVO-based DVR. If the HR2x series can pick up a couple of features that would be okay.
DirecTV has done a terrific job of innovating with the HR2x series. As long as they continue that, I am happy.


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## wesmills (Apr 7, 2003)

Given how much my family loves the TiVo platform, DirecTV and TiVo just need to pick a number that's less than a car payment (Cobalt, not Corvette). The wife and kid have said we'd be dropping premiums (bye, bye HBO!) to make up the cost, if necessary. A "per account" charge of $15 or so might be my limit, but if the box is truly awesome, I'm willing to pay to play.

Voted "price is not an issue," obviously.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Isn't it silly to ask how much more we'd pay without knowing what features we will get for the $$$?

I would potentially come back to DTV when my FIOS committment ends, based on this....but not necessarily. It'll depend on price/features at that point.

Premium pricing for Tivo would be a concession that the product is superior.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Jhon69 said:


> Wow! What happened to all the posts that said"I want Tivo back at any costs"!. :lol:
> 
> I guess that wanting is not the same as having.Still DirecTV deserves kudos for giving their subscribers an option and for maintaining the DirecTV DVR+ line which should help limit Tivo's increases and gives DirecTV another option agalnst unreasonable agreements.:sure:


Yea I find it funny that people are falling all over themselves in the main thread about this but most wouldn't pay for it. If that actually holds true once released DirecTV will have to wonder if they made the right choice to bring Tivo back. Either that or they don't care and will consider it a niche item that not all that many people will actually pay for. But if they got the terms they want (which I'm sure they did since Tivo needed this BAD but DirecTV didn't need it at all) then they probably don't care. If it's a "failure" in terms of gaining a lot of subs they can always drop it later on.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

9/4/08 - 12:37 PM:

Would take TiVo if it were free or reduced the bill: 266/443 (60%)
Would pay a reasonable fee: 133/443 (30%)
Price not an issue: 33/443 (7%)

All I can say is that presents a less-than-conclusive profit picture. This forum is full of just the sort of people who would be prime candidates for a new TiVo product. Assuming that inertia, future apathy and improvements in the HR2x would end up lowering those numbers, it's possible that this could be quite the boutique product.


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## OneOfOne (Sep 19, 2006)

the main and as far as I can see only benefit of tivos is the hackability as in the previous gen [especially 2nd gen] dvrs with networking and the ability to take recordings off and watch on your computer or burn to dvd.


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## feschiver (Dec 19, 2006)

you can record off the HR2X'S now and direct to pc is in beta test now
get a Harmony 550 remote works great


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

I agree with this post with the caveat that the DLB feature be added...in other words, apples to apples, the hr2x is superior for many reasons we all have rehashed...but for the sports packages, for me , DLB is a must feature. So i cross my fingers that this sing feature be added to our wonnderful hr2x platform, and would not pay for TIVO.



MikeW said:


> Alright Tom! Time for BED! Over 60 posts since 4:00 this morning. If this were an Olympic event, you get the Gold!
> 
> Looks like it's $5.00 (read $4.99) to add the Tivo service. I voted 0, but I know there are those who see the value in Tivo vs. any other DVR platform. Truth be told, they are getting a fortune from the standalone boxes and 5 bucks is really nothing in the Tivo scheme of things.
> 
> ...


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Premium pricing for Tivo would be a concession that the product is superior.


No, premium pricing would be a concession that the product is not the mainstream option.

Restaurants charge for substitutions of food regardless of quality. You have to pay for a different color for your car even if the paint is of lesser quality than what is on the lot. Stainless clad appliances are more expensive even though they are not superior. There are many examples of special or custom or different items being of a different price.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> 9/4/08 - 12:37 PM:


Psst., the date and time are automatically logged above your picture (and you forgot PST)


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> 9/4/08 - 12:37 PM:
> 
> Would take TiVo if it were free or reduced the bill: 266/443 (60%)
> Would pay a reasonable fee: 133/443 (30%)
> ...


I'll ask the same question I asked in the other thread: isn't over 1/3 (38%, if you subtract out the people who voted as "just looking") willing to pay a premium a pretty decent number? What percentage of people take other premium services from DirecTV (like Sunday Ticket, MLB, etc.)?


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## jdmac29 (Jan 6, 2006)

I voted for a dollar. That is about it. Had a Tivo sd directv dvr after I got my hr20-700. The dual live buffers was the only thing I really liked about it more. It was slow compared to my hr20-700. I did like the 30 second skip but the hr20 got that a few months later.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Psst., the date and time are automatically logged above your picture (and you forgot PST)


Completely true, my spartan friend, but not germane to the point of the post


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

jdmac29 said:


> Had a Tivo sd directv dvr after I got my hr20-700. The dual live buffers was the only thing I really liked about it more. It was slow compared to my hr20-700.


From a performance perspective, I'm not sure that comparing the old DirecTiVo to the HR2x is going to represent what what the new product offers. The original DirecTiVo came out around 2002, with the series 2 (which wasn't really much faster, but added some features) around 2005? I believe the HD version was considered by many a series 1.5, as it had _some_ series 2 aspects, but not all. I would like to think that a 2009 product might be a little faster. Of course, I'm still not clear as to whether or not this is going to be the same hardware as the HR2x.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Completely true, my spartan friend, but not germane to the point of the post


 Then, obviously the point eluded me.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I would expect any extra fee to be no less than 5$..
that would put it at 16%..


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

houskamp said:


> I would expect any extra fee to be no less than 5$..
> that would put it at 16%..


Where do you get that figure?

$5/month 18.52%
$8/month 0.87%
Price is not an issue 7.41%

If you're including $5, then the total percentage would be 27%, right?

If you're not including $5, then it would be 8%, right?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Where do you get that figure?
> 
> $5/month 18.52%
> $8/month 0.87%
> ...


forgot to carry the 1.. 26.79%... Of course we also know how accurate polls here are to the general public...


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## Castlebill (Jul 25, 2006)

Thanks to all the Einsteins voting that they would pay a premium for TIVO - thanks for encouraging Directv to charge more - brilliant.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

This poll is a highly accurate and sensitive scientific instrument of the highest caliber. (For that matter most of the voters are of the highest caliber too.)

It's the results and analysis that are completely bogus... 

Cheers,
Tom


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> This poll is a highly accurate and sensitive scientific instrument of the highest caliber. (For that matter most of the voters are of the highest caliber too.)
> 
> It's the results and analysis that are completely bogus...
> 
> ...


       

Yeah because in a survey of all D* customers 465 votes sure must be enough to be a scientific sample and not just small enough to be the statistical margin of error..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

anyone remember the "todo list" poll?


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

OneOfOne said:


> the main and as far as I can see only benefit of tivos is the hackability as in the previous gen [especially 2nd gen] dvrs with networking and the ability to take recordings off and watch on your computer or burn to dvd.


Suspect that hackability will be the first thing to go on the new box given the current trend to copyright protection.

Been able to do the copy to DVD for as long as I have been running my HR2X's so that is nothing spectacular. Same with networking on the HR2X, been there for awhile


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> No, premium pricing would be a concession that the product is not the mainstream option.
> 
> Restaurants charge for substitutions of food regardless of quality. You have to pay for a different color for your car even if the paint is of lesser quality than what is on the lot. Stainless clad appliances are more expensive even though they are not superior. There are many examples of special or custom or different items being of a different price.


nice spin....but completely non persuasive.

If Tivo were to charge a subscription fee outside of DTV, one oculd argue it's not a premium service..but if DTV says..you can get DVR A for $5/month or DVR B $10/Month...how can they possibly argue DVR A is their better product?

There will always be individuals who prefer A to B..there are individuals who like Nissan sentras more than maximas..but Nissan won't tell you the Sentra model is an upgrade to a Maxima.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

think it's more of an even thing.. maxima to accord..


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

It is reported on USA Today that DirecTV will pay $1.50 per customer, up from $1 they used to pay. If D$ charge us $4.99 for $1 they paid Tivo. I suppose they will want to charge $2.49 this time, eh?

I voted $0.


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## mnbulldog (Aug 25, 2006)

The only thing it might offer is DLB. Beyond that I could care less. Nothing against Tivo - I like mine but it is no where near the GOD that Tivoaddicts make it out to be. Many, numerous flaws.

Now UTV - MS bring that back and I would be in heaven. Best DVR EVER!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> nice spin....but completely non persuasive.
> 
> If Tivo were to charge a subscription fee outside of DTV, one oculd argue it's not a premium service..but if DTV says..you can get DVR A for $5/month or DVR B $10/Month...how can they possibly argue DVR A is their better product?
> 
> There will always be individuals who prefer A to B..there are individuals who like Nissan sentras more than maximas..but Nissan won't tell you the Sentra model is an upgrade to a Maxima.


The difference is that tivo is a brand name. Many people will pay extra for a brand name, whether it's actually better or not. There's many generic items in the grocery store that are just as good as the brand names, but they cost less (heck, some of them are the exact same and made my the same company) because they're not a brand name. It has nothing to do with one being better than the other. It's about one being a brand name with a cult following and the other not.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> In the SEC filing by TiVo, the fees to TiVo have increased for all new DIRECTV DVRs based upon the TiVo service. So my expectation is fees will have to increase.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


There are only 6 pages after this post, so maybe it's been discussed already, but will that news from the SEC filing translate into a DVR Service Fee at different tiers based on the hardware the customer has (TiVo vs DVR+)? Or maybe even charges assessed per individual DVR instead of per account?

I know I'm very happy with the DVR+, I'm happy with where they are going, and it's not worth it for me to pay more to get a smaller buffer even if there are two of them...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The most recent news came from a USA Today article: http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2008-09-03-tivo-directv_N.htm where DIRECTV mentioned that the extra costs for support would likely be passed onto TiVo customers.

Cheers,
Tom


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> There are only 6 pages after this post, so maybe it's been discussed already,


Only one way to find out.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Tivo offers an actual dedicated SLO-MO button (just like every VCR ever made) and a dedicated hash mark advance button. You don't have to hold anything down and wonder if it's ever going to do anything. If you watch sports, that's worth A LOT. And their :30 advance works cleanly and immediately. No hesitations and glitching. The way it SHOULD be.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> 9/4/08 - 12:37 PM:
> 
> Would take TiVo if it were free or reduced the bill: 266/443 (60%)
> Would pay a reasonable fee: 133/443 (30%)
> ...


I see your point, but this survey is in a forum of DVR+ users, where many of the voters never had a TiVo or had it and don't miss it. My guess is a similar poll at TiVo Community Forum would skew the othe direction, with a majority of those voters willing to pay an extra "reasonable" fee simply to have the MPEG4 HD channels.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

What is it about TiVo that’s so great? If it’s DLB and MRV, then those are features we expect to be available on the HR2x, and probably before the 2nd half of 2009 which probably means early 2010. If it’s stability, then I am not sure that the TiVo software will be the end-all to that problem. If they are going to use the HR2x hardware, they could possibly have many of the same problems as it does with D*’s software. The reason I say that is because I believe many of these problems are due to the HR2x tuners being *very* sensitive to signal issues. An intermittent signal failure can cause a tuner to shut down or even freeze the entire unit. I guess this could be in the software, but it may also be hardware related.

As for the interface itself, I actually like the D* version. I understand there were some guide display differences with the TiVo, but I can’t really think of anything missing from the D* interface. I will say that I am not very fond of the “cutesy” interface of TiVo. It seems very dumbed-down to me. I am guessing this whole argument is along the lines of PC vs. Mac, and likely just as pointless. Basically, if I have a choice, I’ll stick with the D* interface unless there is a compelling reason to switch to TiVo. For me, that compelling reason would be some whiz-bang feature (i.e. MRV) only available on TiVo, or, simply that D* retires its own software and forces me to go to TiVo.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

I still have an SD Tivo, I wonder if D* will charge extra for the SD versions also?


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

rudeney said:


> What is it about TiVo that's so great? ... If it's stability, then I am not sure that the TiVo software will be the end-all to that problem. If they are going to use the HR2x hardware, they could possibly have many of the same problems as it does with D*'s software. The reason I say that is because I believe many of these problems are due to the HR2x tuners being *very* sensitive to signal issues. An intermittent signal failure can cause a tuner to shut down or even freeze the entire unit. I guess this could be in the software, but it may also be hardware related.


I think you've already answered your own question. I've had intermittent lock-up and rebooting issues, and when I posted asking about it, one of the first questions I was asked was to post my signal strengths. If the software is properly written, the OS should not lock up or spontaneously reboot just because the signal is weak. Does this mean that people in areas where rain fade is an issue should expect to have their boxes freeze or reboot? I've never had this problem with my TiVos.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> The difference is that tivo is a brand name. Many people will pay extra for a brand name, whether it's actually better or not. There's many generic items in the grocery store that are just as good as the brand names, but they cost less (heck, some of them are the exact same and made my the same company) because they're not a brand name. It has nothing to do with one being better than the other. It's about one being a brand name with a cult following and the other not.


Well, the problem is that Tivo isn't a brand name anymore, it's a noun. Just about *everyone* with a DVR says and thinks they already have a Tivo. Every single one of my friends with their cable DVR thinks it's a Tivo. Both people I know with Dish think their ViP is a Tivo and I quit arguing with the one because he would get so upset that I told him it's not a Tivo and it is so a Tivo according to him. :eek2: And most of my friends with DirecTV think their HR20/21 is a Tivo. And most of those that finally acknowledge that it's not a Tivo just say "well it's the same thing".

So the Tivo "brand name" to me is rather meaningless when people already think they have Tivo. Thus when DirecTV advertises that you can get Tivo for extra, most people will think "oh, I already have Tivo" or "I thought I had Tivo already". Only the Tivo fanatics or the few that come to these forums will really know the difference.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, the problem is that Tivo isn't a brand name anymore, it's a noun. Just about *everyone* with a DVR says and thinks they already have a Tivo. Every single one of my friends with their cable DVR thinks it's a Tivo. Both people I know with Dish think their ViP is a Tivo and I quit arguing with the one because he would get so upset that I told him it's not a Tivo and it is so a Tivo according to him. :eek2: And most of my friends with DirecTV think their HR20/21 is a Tivo. And most of those that finally acknowledge that it's not a Tivo just say "well it's the same thing".
> 
> So the Tivo "brand name" to me is rather meaningless when people already think they have Tivo. Thus when DirecTV advertises that you can get Tivo for extra, most people will think "oh, I already have Tivo" or "I thought I had Tivo already". Only the Tivo fanatics or the few that come to these forums will really know the difference.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, everyone calls it "tivo" (even us), but the majority of people know that they're not actually using a tivo. It's no different than the fact that everyone calls tissues "kleenex". Even if it's not a kleenex, they still call it a Kleenex. They know it's not a Kleenex (in most cases), but they still call it that. And guess what? If you go to the store, Kleenex usually costs a bit more than the other tissue brands. Why? Because it's a brand name. And not just that, it's actually a brand name that has worked it's way into the American vocabulary (just like tivo), which means it's probably worth even more than other brand names.


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## wesmills (Apr 7, 2003)

rudeney said:


> As for the interface itself, I actually like the D* version. I understand there were some guide display differences with the TiVo, but I can't really think of anything missing from the D* interface. I will say that I am not very fond of the "cutesy" interface of TiVo. It seems very dumbed-down to me. I am guessing this whole argument is along the lines of PC vs. Mac, and likely just as pointless. Basically, if I have a choice, I'll stick with the D* interface unless there is a compelling reason to switch to TiVo. For me, that compelling reason would be some whiz-bang feature (i.e. MRV) only available on TiVo, or, simply that D* retires its own software and forces me to go to TiVo.


Honestly, you're right. It is PC vs. Mac, Windows vs. Linux, vi vs. emacs and so on. For my family, we HATE the HR2x interface. It's too slow, the menus too unfamiliar, and things that we want to do (yes, DLB is important to us, but so are WISHLISTS and suggestions) are either missing or take too many button pushes to activate compared to our DirecTiVos. Given a choice between HD or a TiVo, all three of us have taken the TiVo route. It's personal preference, just like how some people are gaga over HD and others can't see the benefits.

For my geekiness, I have stuck with the TiVo platform because of the Other Things(tm) (that shall not be discussed here) I can do on the platform. To me, it's a toy that also happens to record, pause and play back television. I LIKE toys, and the more I can tinker with them, the better. Can I do this with the new platform? Maybe not. Heck, probably not. Do I stand a better chance than with the DirecTV-made boxes? Oh yeah.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

wesmills said:


> Honestly, you're right. It is PC vs. Mac, Windows vs. Linux, vi vs. emacs and so on. For my family, we HATE the HR2x interface. It's too slow, the menus too unfamiliar, and things that we want to do (yes, DLB is important to us, but so are WISHLISTS and suggestions) are either missing or take too many button pushes to activate compared to our DirecTiVos. Given a choice between HD or a TiVo, all three of us have taken the TiVo route. It's personal preference, just like how some people are gaga over HD and others can't see the benefits.
> 
> For my geekiness, I have stuck with the TiVo platform because of the Other Things(tm) (that shall not be discussed here) I can do on the platform. To me, it's a toy that also happens to record, pause and play back television. I LIKE toys, and the more I can tinker with them, the better. Can I do this with the new platform? Maybe not. Heck, probably not. Do I stand a better chance than with the DirecTV-made boxes? Oh yeah.


Or, like a Lexus as compared to a Toyota.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

No one I know who uses a DirecTV DVR calls it a TiVo.

That's because in my middle-class (and lower) circle, few of us had anything to record with other than VCRs and DVD recorders, until DirecTV began making such great deals on the R-15. That really caused a DVR explosion in my area, at least among people I know. There's no OTA here--TV comes from small cable systems or satellite. I don't think the cable system that serves my neighborhood offers any kind of DVR.

I'm sure most of my friends have heard of TiVo. They probably think of it as the company that made DVRs before DirecTV took over the market.

Just an example of how different people have different perceptions of things.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, everyone calls it "tivo" (even us), but the majority of people know that they're not actually using a tivo. It's no different than the fact that everyone calls tissues "kleenex". Even if it's not a kleenex, they still call it a Kleenex. They know it's not a Kleenex (in most cases), but they still call it that. And guess what? If you go to the store, Kleenex usually costs a bit more than the other tissue brands. Why? Because it's a brand name. And not just that, it's actually a brand name that has worked it's way into the American vocabulary (just like tivo), which means it's probably worth even more than other brand names.


Guess we just know different people. Other then a couple people I know everyone I've met that uses a DVR thinks they have a Tivo. Only a couple actually did.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

I also voted zero I had TIVO and I prefer my HR20-700 and HR21-100 the only feature I truly miss is DLB but I would only take DLB if they were 90 minute buffers. 30 minute buffer just doesen't cut it.


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## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

I have never had a Tivo but if it has DLB, PIP, true slow motion, a better guide and faster response then count me in!


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

techrep said:


> Or, like a Lexus as compared to a Toyota.


That's a great analogy! HR2x = Toyota and TiVo = Lexus. They are moslty the same thing, but they charge more to have that big "L" on the grill! By the way, the most disappointing vehicle we've owned in the last 20 years: Lexus.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rudeney said:


> That's a great analogy! HR2x = Toyota and TiVo = Lexus. They are moslty the same thing, but they charge more to have that big "L" on the grill! By the way, the most disappointing vehicle we've owned in the last 20 years: Lexus.


Having had both...I respectfully disagree.

In Europe, Lexus isn't even considered a luxury car....so its all in the eyes of the beholder.

The are both different but similar.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Guess we just know different people. Other then a couple people I know everyone I've met that uses a DVR thinks they have a Tivo. Only a couple actually did.


No offense, but I have to ask: People you know actually don't know they don't have a Tivo? Do they think their Toshiba TV is a Sony? Do they think their Croft and Barrow Khakis are Dockers? That just amazes me. I can't imagine knowing someone that wouldn't have knowledge of something they bought or know what brand it is. Especially after you told them. And then they get mad at you?

bonscott: "Hey, that gelatin is not Jello"
cletus: "I reckon it is"
bonscott: "No, see, right on the box it says Kroger gelatin dessert. Jello is a brand name"
cletus: "F-you, don't you be tellin' me my Jello ain't no Jello"
bonscott: "OK, Ok, relax, my apologies"

Seriously?


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

I am a happy camper with the current HR2X format. Other than the double buffer of my previous TIVO HR20-250, I don't see anything that was better with the TIVO system. The current guide format is a lot better than the one we had on the HR10-250. 

But, I am open to any new technology and maybe TIVO has improved their technology and guide display since the HR10-250.

I still would like to see OTA tuners back into the DirecTV units. They give us 4 HD/Digital channels, via satellite, and there are over 30 in my area that I have to buy an external unit to view. When space is a issue, I wouldn't mind paying more for the unit to have the OTA tuner built into the receiver.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

It seems to me that the real issue us that TiVo's had DLB and the HR2x's don't. For those who don’t care that the HR3x lacks DLB, is there anything else about TiVo that would make you actually pay more for it over the HR2x?


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

The Tivo Series3 and the Tivo HD receivers are quite a bit better than the HR10-250 and, the GUI has been "dolled up" a bit.

A fully functional (or nearly so) MPEG4 HD DirecTV Tivo with OTA and 3 or 4 tuner capability would be awesome.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

rudeney said:


> It seems to me that the real issue us that TiVo's had DLB and the HR2x's don't. For those who don't care that the HR3x lacks DLB, is there anything else about TiVo that would make you actually pay more for it over the HR2x?


Yes. For ME, so far, there has been a big difference in reliability and stability between the two. Obviously, some have had a much better experience with the HR2x, so beyond that, I preferred the feel of the transport functions much more (FF, etc., seemed more responsive), TiVo never seemed to record things I've already seen like the HR2x (probably due to the 28 day rule), I miss suggestions (not everyone liked that, I did), I miss wishlists, I could view more channels at a time in the guide, I never had the problem where something didn't record as expected, and I couldn't find a logical reason why in the history, and probably some other things I can't think of right now. I also hope that some TiVo features that I never got to enjoy on my DirecTV TiVos make it to the new version, like MRV, programming from a PC, and probably more, don't remember what all they had.

In short, I just worked the way I would expect it to, without many problems. It just worked, and provided relevant features.


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## alexjb12 (Nov 28, 2007)

I do like tivo, but I think i like the HR2X a little more =)


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

I had DirecTivo as my primary viewing solution, I've switched to HR2X DVRs and don't pay any more or less than I did with Tivo. I don't expect that I would have to pay any more or less with a future Tivo solution.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> No offense, but I have to ask: People you know actually don't know they don't have a Tivo? Do they think their Toshiba TV is a Sony? Do they think their Croft and Barrow Khakis are Dockers? That just amazes me. I can't imagine knowing someone that wouldn't have knowledge of something they bought or know what brand it is. Especially after you told them. And then they get mad at you?
> 
> bonscott: "Hey, that gelatin is not Jello"
> cletus: "I reckon it is"
> ...


There are a lot of people that have a very uninformed understanding of the features and/or products they actually have, especially when it comes to electronics / computers or most anything digital. This even can include college educated people with highly technical degrees like Electrical Engineering (I have a sister-in-law to prove it). Not to say that is the norm, but certainly part of the general population.

I recall a lot of discussion about how many people bought HD sets that thought they had HD when they had no HD content or equipment capable of displaying HD.

Tivo has become somewhat a generic term for DVR. I'm not surprised at all that someone might think they have a Tivo when in fact that have a DVR.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Thaedron said:


> There are a lot of people that have a very uninformed understanding of the features and/or products they actually have, especially when it comes to electronics / computers or most anything digital. This even can include college educated people with highly technical degrees like Electrical Engineering (I have a sister-in-law to prove it). Not to say that is the norm, but certainly part of the general population.


Agreed, that has nothing to do with it.



Thaedron said:


> I recall a lot of discussion about how many people bought HD sets that thought they had HD when they had no HD content or equipment capable of displaying HD.


Agreed, again that has nothing to do with it.



Thaedron said:


> Tivo has become somewhat a generic term for DVR. I'm not surprised at all that someone might think they have a Tivo when in fact that have a DVR.


I'm not surprised either, but again that's not the point. Are you actually telling me that these college educated people would continue to think they had a tivo even after you explained to them that it was a brand name for a DVR? I don't think so. That they wouldn't understand the difference between a tivo and a DVR even after you explained it to them? Again, I don't think so. That they'd actually get mad at the discussion? Again, I don't think so. Unless they were retarded, they'd know the difference between a brand name and it's function after it was pointed out to them.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Are you actually telling me that these college educated people would continue to think they had a tivo even after you explained to them that it was a brand name for a DVR? I don't think so.


LOL Try to get people to stop using household names generically is nearly impossible.

Look at 
Velcro vs hook and loop
Ziplock vs zipper seal baggies
Freon vs (insert proper refrigerant name here)
Duraflame Log vs (whatever)

Folks just use the most common term because they dont want to explain to aunt Betty what a HR20 or DVR is, but more folks know what a Tivo does.

So look at it this way, they are capitalizing (perhaps improperly) on the name brand recognition.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I'm not surprised either, but again that's not the point. Are you actually telling me that these college educated people would continue to think they had a tivo even after you explained to them that it was a brand name for a DVR? I don't think so. That they wouldn't understand the difference between a tivo and a DVR even after you explained it to them? Again, I don't think so. That they'd actually get mad at the discussion? Again, I don't think so. Unless they were retarded, they'd know the difference between a brand name and it's function after it was pointed out to them.


If that's not the case then, we must all be geniuses. :lol:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> I'm not surprised either, but again that's not the point. Are you actually telling me that these college educated people would continue to think they had a tivo even after you explained to them that it was a brand name for a DVR? I don't think so. That they wouldn't understand the difference between a tivo and a DVR even after you explained it to them? Again, I don't think so. That they'd actually get mad at the discussion? Again, I don't think so. Unless they were retarded, they'd know the difference between a brand name and it's function after it was pointed out to them.


Ummm, college educated means *nothing* in terms of knowledge of electronics and computers. I do computer/software support for a living. I work for a Pharmaceutical company and thus most people I deal with are scientists with Doctoral degrees. A whole lot more education then just "college". Most of them are totally clueless when it comes to technology. Good lord just getting them to use a keyboard and mouse to type an email is hours of training. I used to find it hard to believe someone could go to college for 8+ years and still not know how to use a computer or know anything about HD and consumer electronics. But I live that world every day. And believe me, the 80-90% of the general population is no different, college degree or not.

People believe they have Tivo because that's what their cable told them they have. "Oh yea we have Tivo, here ya go!" Sure not in their "official" literature but virtually every person working at the local cable office calls their DVR a Tivo because guess what, everyone knows what a Tivo is but they don't know what they heck a DVR is. So when they ask about it they are just told it's a Tivo and people will immediately know what that is. Thus the extension of that, people then think they have Tivo. Most people I talk to have no idea there is actually a Tivo company and a Tivo product. Tivo "is a DVR" to them. They've never seen an ad for Tivo. Tivo has an extreme branding problem because people just don't realize that there is such a thing. And on top of that they don't want anything to do with actually having to buy said Tivo box and pay extra monthly. Why do that when what I get from cable is free? This is the general public folks. And explains why Tivo's market share and subs continue to drop including their stand alone subs. They used to have 90% of the market. Now they barely have 10%, if that. So what DVR's are used by the other 35+ million? Oh yea, whatever the cable company gives them. 

And I gave up correcting my mother that she doesn't have a Tivo but has Dish DVR. It's just not worth the pain of explaining once again it's not a Tivo. 

Seriously, people on this forum need to get more connected with "Joe Sixpack" in terms of technology, college degree or not. I deal with them every day all day. :eek2:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, college educated means *nothing* in terms of knowledge of electronics and computers. I do computer/software support for a living. I work for a Pharmaceutical company and thus most people I deal with are scientists with Doctoral degrees. A whole lot more education then just "college". Most of them are totally clueless when it comes to technology. Good lord just getting them to use a keyboard and mouse to type an email is hours of training. I used to find it hard to believe someone could go to college for 8+ years and still not know how to use a computer or know anything about HD and consumer electronics. But I live that world every day. And believe me, the 80-90% of the general population is no different, college degree or not.
> 
> People believe they have Tivo because that's what their cable told them they have. "Oh yea we have Tivo, here ya go!" Sure not in their "official" literature but virtually every person working at the local cable office calls their DVR a Tivo because guess what, everyone knows what a Tivo is but they don't know what they heck a DVR is. So when they ask about it they are just told it's a Tivo and people will immediately know what that is.
> 
> ...


Preaching to the choir brother, preaching to the choir. reach:


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, college educated means *nothing* in terms of knowledge of electronics and computers. I do computer/software support for a living. I work for a Pharmaceutical company and thus most people I deal with are scientists with Doctoral degrees. A whole lot more education then just "college". Most of them are totally clueless when it comes to technology.
> 
> Seriously, people on this forum need to get more connected with "Joe Sixpack" in terms of technology, college degree or not. I deal with them every day all day. :eek2:


+1

College education doesn't come with wisdom, so they can err as much as us unwashed masses. I cant tell you how many people I have worked with in IT with what amounts to alphabet soup after their name on business cards who couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a simple error message without 10,000 references.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> I do computer/software support for a living. I work for a Pharmaceutical company and thus most people I deal with are scientists with Doctoral degrees. :eek2:


Now I understand why you shuddered when I mentioned 21 CFR part 11 and Praxis Validation Center

Interesting world to work in isn't it


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

rahlquist said:


> +1
> 
> College education doesn't come with wisdom, so they can err as much as us unwashed masses. I cant tell you how many people I have worked with in IT with what amounts to alphabet soup after their name on business cards who couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a simple error message without 10,000 references.


which is why when I hire I put real life practical experience about book learning all the time


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, college educated means *nothing* in terms of knowledge of electronics and computers.


Either does my point. Most college educated people (heck, even most high school dropouts) know what a Brand name is. That's the point. Sure, some people might think their Dish DVR is a tivo, just like some people might think their adhesive bandage is a Band-Aid. Because they don't know the difference. I've yet to meet someone, however, that after a brief explanation that tivo is actually a brand name, didn't immediately understand (even if they'd never seen a commercial). It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. Does your mother not understand that her tissue isn't a Kleenex either? Even after you explain it to her? You actually know someone that would get upset (from your previous post) if you told them their gelatin wasn't actually Jello? Again, absurd.

Of course, maybe those things are all true. Based on how difficult my point is for you to understand, I can see how everyone else you know might have a hard time understanding what a Brand name is.

And as for your last point, I'm probably more connected with JSP then anyone else on this board. Heck, not only do I not hang out with dorks/geeks, I purposely avoid them. 99.9% of my friends would be considered JSP (and they all know what a brand is), but that has nothing to do with the point either.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I'm not surprised either, but again that's not the point. Are you actually telling me that these college educated people would continue to think they had a tivo even after you explained to them that it was a brand name for a DVR? I don't think so. That they wouldn't understand the difference between a tivo and a DVR even after you explained it to them? Again, I don't think so. That they'd actually get mad at the discussion? Again, I don't think so. Unless they were retarded, they'd know the difference between a brand name and it's function after it was pointed out to them.





> No offense, but I have to ask: People you know actually don't know they don't have a Tivo? Do they think their Toshiba TV is a Sony? Do they think their Croft and Barrow Khakis are Dockers? That just amazes me. *I can't imagine knowing someone that wouldn't have knowledge of something they bought or know what brand it is.* Especially after you told them. And then they get mad at you?


I didn't say they wouldn't understand if explained to.
I didn't say they would get mad if you tried explaining that their DVR wasn't a Tivo.

I was primarily replying to your *statement* above relating to someone not having knowledge about a product that they owned.


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## gdn (Aug 5, 2007)

Was very glad to hear this news this week. I don't know the exact amount I'd pay, I hope it is only a small incremental amount, but if you put the current HR20 software against the Tivo software on the Tivo HR10-250 - I'd probably pay upwards of $7 to $10 a month to get back to the Tivo. 

I'd pay that amount just to have the peanut remote and DLB's back. Anything else is gravy. I figure by the time the new machine hits the road Tivo will have added other things to the last incarnation of the software as I knew it. Everything will be Internet based vs phone line, hopefully have PIG and a few other features, but even if it didn't - I'd still go back. I've got a Harmony remote - but it still isn't as touch friendly as the peanut. And I hate nothing more than to get to the end of a recording where the program runs over - and nothing left in the buffer to finish watching because the tuner with the buffer is on another channel from a previous recording.

One last big item, Directv's inability to troubleshoot and get problems fixed in a timely manner (Tivo actually had some of this same issue), but Directv is more recently in my memory. I still read many new posts every day about the searching for signal and 771 problem. Everyone still points to software. Interestingly enough mine problem went away when D* finally replaced my HR20 - and this box runs the same version of the software that the last one did.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> Either does my point. Most college educated people (heck, even most high school dropouts) know what a Brand name is. That's the point. Sure, some people might think their Dish DVR is a tivo, just like some people might think their adhesive bandage is a Band-Aid. Because they don't know the difference. I've yet to meet someone, however, that after a brief explanation that tivo is actually a brand name, didn't immediately understand (even if they'd never seen a commercial). It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. Does your mother not understand that her tissue isn't a Kleenex either? Even after you explain it to her? You actually know someone that would get upset (from your previous post) if you told them their gelatin wasn't actually Jello? Again, absurd.


Look, I agree with you. Most people, including those I've talked to, "understand" when you point out it's not actually a Tivo. But a week later they are back to calling it a Tivo and thus over time it ingrains back in their mind that Tivo=DVR. *That* is the point I'm making. It doesn't matter one bit if they might actually realize in the back of their mind that it's not a "real" Tivo. It's still a Tivo to them because it's a DVR. And that's why Tivo struggles in the marketplace to sell their products, people don't see the advantage of having the brand name Tivo, just as they don't see the advantage of having the brand name "band aid" or "Jello". It's all the same to them.

Anyway....I've got 13 hours of football ahead of me. You all enjoy.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

wingrider01 said:


> Now I understand why you shuddered when I mentioned 21 CFR part 11 and Praxis Validation Center
> 
> Interesting world to work in isn't it


And the word nobody wants to hear.....AUDIT. :eek2: :nono:


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

I wouldn't pay anything extra per month to get a TiVo above and beyond the existing DVR fee; but I would expect to pay something for the unit.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> And the word nobody wants to hear.....AUDIT. :eek2: :nono:


Got one starting sometime next week


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## bertman64 (Aug 25, 2007)

How many paid over 1,000.00 with tax to own a now obsolete hr10-250? This new one will be leased no doubt and much cheaper. Switching out any HD dvr you already paid for would not be a very good deal but maybe if you could add it cheaply and just pay the 5.99 per month it would be fun to have!


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

At this point, 40% polled would pay a premium to have TiVo. That seems significant to me.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

I wouldn't pay anything more than I do for an HR2x for a DirecTV TIVO. As long as the cost is the same or less, I'd consider the new TIVO, but I really have no need to switch from the HR2x series - I'm quite happy with the 4 HR2x's I have.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

DarinC said:


> At this point, 40% polled would pay a premium to have TiVo. That seems significant to me.


Would be if it was a true commitment, but at this point it is just a group of people saying they would without actually having to spend the monthly reoccurring and the cost for the unit and not knowing what it will be. There is no validation in the poll for a commitment.

How much of the 40 percent would do that is the unit was a purchase only at the going price of the HR21-Pro, no hack ability and a monthly reoccuring surcharge of 3.00? Or if lease only 7.99 for the lease and a monthly reoccurring surcharge of 3.00?

Add to the speculation - 50% said they would switch only if there was no additional charges


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

My 2 HR 20 tivos, WAIT, I mean my HR 20's HD DVR's work great. Why would I pay more for a TIVO?


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

wingrider01 said:


> Would be if it was a true commitment...


No, it still seems significant to me. 40% polled indicate they are willing to pay money for something they perceive to be better than the HR2x. Committment or no, that still says _something_.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Would I pay more for Tivo? Can it first be explained what exactly are the benefits of Tivo over what we are currently using? Does it do MRV? Have duel live buffers and ability to watch third program (as originally stated/planned with 20xxxDVR)? Can it do 1080P? Can you record what you DVR'ed off box in HD format? Will the box still push all the signals out of all of the A/V jacks at the same time? etc....

First I would have to know what I gain by switching and of course what Iwould be losing but at the previous pricing margin of $999.00-$1250.00 for the last box with tivo I would say he!! no.......not even a moments thought! Plus a higher monthy fee, no were already paying too much for TV veiwing. The change to TIVO would have to be a stellar advancement in DVR technology and first of it's kind change to make it a consideration. What puzzles me more is why D* would want to go back to tivo after breaking away to develope their own DVR systems.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Mrmiami said:


> What puzzles me more is why D* would want to go back to tivo after breaking away to develope their own DVR systems.


If it has the potential to draw/retain customers, why would they NOT want to offer it?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

With 638 data points, I think the numbers are stable enough to say that we know where they are going. I appreciate the participation of everyone who posted, and encourage you to continue all TiVo-related discussion in the other TiVo thread which will remain open for the foreseeable future.


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