# Equipment replacement questions - what are they sending out?



## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

My H20 finally fried. I called in and got the standard 'pay us $20 for shipping and we'll send out another unit'. I asked about changing the type of receiver that is being sent out and the CSR was adamant about the fact that they will be sending out an H20 since that's what is being replaced. I highly doubt that didn't start the discussion. Anyone have an H20 replaced lately and know what they are sending out?

How about replacement for HR22s/23s, etc? Are they still sending out anything but HR24s? Man...I hope not.

Thanks.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Take HR24, it's your better chance !


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Take HR24, it's your better chance !


That's my question....they aren't letting me take anything. The CSR indicated that my H20 will be replaced by an H20 and that my HR22 will be replaced by an HR22. I know this COULD happen as the goal is to replace with the same class of unit. What I'm asking is about what people are receiving as of late. Has anyone recently replaced an H20 and got another H20 in return? What are they replacing H20s with? I know they aren't taking them back and haven't for years. Same question for HR22 and 23s. Are they still sending these back out (again, they aren't taking them back) or are they all 24s at this point?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> That's my question....they aren't letting me take anything. The CSR indicated that my H20 will be replaced by an H20 and that my HR22 will be replaced by an HR22. I know this COULD happen as the goal is to replace with the same class of unit. What I'm asking is about what people are receiving as of late. Has anyone recently replaced an H20 and got another H20 in return? What are they replacing H20s with? I know they aren't taking them back and haven't for years. Same question for HR22 and 23s. Are they still sending these back out (again, they aren't taking them back) or are they all 24s at this point?


Call Retention, tell them what you want, tell them you're gonna cancel service if you don't get a 24 (they're very good DVRs, don't let their age fool you). Be polite, these Retention folks can really help you.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Call Retention, tell them what you want, tell them you're gonna cancel service if you don't get a 24 (they're very good DVRs, don't let their age fool you). Be polite, these Retention folks can really help you.
> 
> Rich


Ya, I have 3 HR24s and a couple older 23 and 22s. There used to be a big difference in their speed but the 24s have slowed down, and oddly, the 23 and 22 are now speedier than they were before. Must be a software update because they are almost usable again where they absolutely weren't at one time.

...and I'm always polite to retention.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I highly doubt Directv has any H20s sitting in warehouses to hand out, they quit making them a decade ago. I'd say its probably an even money bet I have more H20s than Directv itself!


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I highly doubt Directv has any H20s sitting in warehouses to hand out, they quit making them a decade ago. I'd say its probably an even money bet I have more H20s than Directv itself!


Ha. Thankfully I have just one. I was more wondering if they would try to match it sizewise and send a 24 instead of a 25. Wouldn't want to bump me up TOOOO much ya know.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

J Blow said:


> Ha. Thankfully I have just one. I was more wondering if they would try to match it sizewise and send a 24 instead of a 25. Wouldn't want to bump me up TOOOO much ya know.


Do you have a swim system? If they don't show you having swim I'd expect a h24 myself.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Do you have a swim system? If they don't show you having swim I'd expect a h24 myself.


I'd have to think about that. They should have me down for swm. They haven't been out to my place often but they were there to install an HR44 last. In the meantime I switched to the 13 tuner unit.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

If you have a genie then they have you as swim...


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> If you have a genie then they have you as swim...


I could still see the ole H24 finding it's way to my doorstep.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

J Blow said:


> My H20 finally fried. I called in and got the standard 'pay us $20 for shipping and we'll send out another unit'. I asked about changing the type of receiver that is being sent out and the CSR was adamant about the fact that they will be sending out an H20 since that's what is being replaced. I highly doubt that didn't start the discussion. Anyone have an H20 replaced lately and know what they are sending out?
> 
> How about replacement for HR22s/23s, etc? Are they still sending out anything but HR24s? Man...I hope not.
> 
> Thanks.


Just had an HR21/100 die.
They sent out an HR24/200.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Michael H.. said:


> Just had an HR21/100 die.
> They sent out an HR24/200.


They are probably done with anything less than a 24 as they quit taking everything else a while back. Thanks!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> Ya, I have 3 HR24s and a couple older 23 and 22s. There used to be a big difference in their speed but the 24s have slowed down, and oddly, the 23 and 22 are now speedier than they were before. Must be a software update because they are almost usable again where they absolutely weren't at one time.
> 
> ...and I'm always polite to retention.


Yeah, I'm having problems with some of my 24s too, but I attribute that to the software.

Rich


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

J Blow said:


> My H20 finally fried. I called in and got the standard 'pay us $20 for shipping and we'll send out another unit'. I asked about changing the type of receiver that is being sent out and the CSR was adamant about the fact that they will be sending out an H20 since that's what is being replaced. I highly doubt that didn't start the discussion. Anyone have an H20 replaced lately and know what they are sending out?
> 
> How about replacement for HR22s/23s, etc? Are they still sending out anything but HR24s? Man...I hope not.
> 
> Thanks.


My HR20 crapped out. They sent me a HR24-500 for a replacement. This was about 4 or 5 months ago.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

B Newt said:


> My HR20 crapped out. They sent me a HR24-500 for a replacement. This was about 4 or 5 months ago.


Cool. This isn't a DVR unit but it's good to know they are done with everything but the 24 DVRs.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rich said:


> Yeah, I'm having problems with some of my 24s too, but I attribute that to the software.
> 
> Rich


Update the above post: My good old 24-200 has been having problems. Problems I can't seem to fix. I've done the CLEARMYBOX thing and that didn't help. I've reset it several times and nada. I tried putting another HDD on it last night and that didn't help. I don't think this is a software problem and I see nothing that makes me think it's the HDD (external 2TB WD EARX). Yeah, I've had it for quite awhile but I just can't see any symptoms that make me think it's bad. I've never had problems with this HR and I've had it a long time. Maybe it's just time for a replacement.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> Cool. This isn't a DVR unit but it's good to know they are done with everything but the 24 DVRs.


Haven't seen any posts about anyone getting anything but a 24 for quite some time.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Update the above post: My good old 24-200 has been having problems. Problems I can't seem to fix. I've done the CLEARMYBOX thing and that didn't help. I've reset it several times and nada. I tried putting another HDD on it last night and that didn't help. I don't think this is a software problem and I see nothing that makes me think it's the HDD (external 2TB WD EARX). Yeah, I've had it for quite awhile but I just can't see any symptoms that make me think it's bad. I've never had problems with this HR and I've had it a long time. Maybe it's just time for a replacement.
> 
> Rich


Replacing an HR24 seems like a funny proposition because that's what replaces everything else.

I had problems with my 22 and 23 and finally got 24s to replace them. It was great for a while but those 24s started exhibiting some of the same signs as the 22/23s - nothing near as bad, though. Recently, I added a couple boxes back to my system and reactivated those. Surprisingly, they were much better than they were at one time - makes no sense. Actually, there's little difference between those and the 24s.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Haven't seen any posts about anyone getting anything but a 24 for quite some time.
> 
> Rich


Awesome. I'm not sure why I feel happy about the idea that they aren't still recycling 10 year old electronics devices, but I do. Very, very low expectations is the real answer.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

When you think about it, it's funny and sad. 5 years is an eternity in the technology world. Can you imagine if one of the best available AT&T cell phone options was something introduced a decade ago and that's what they replaced your current model with? Comical.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> *Replacing an HR24 seems like a funny proposition because that's what replaces everything else. *
> 
> I had problems with my 22 and 23 and finally got 24s to replace them. It was great for a while but those 24s started exhibiting some of the same signs as the 22/23s - nothing near as bad, though. Recently, I added a couple boxes back to my system and reactivated those. Surprisingly, they were much better than they were at one time - makes no sense. Actually, there's little difference between those and the 24s.


Nothing lasts forever. I'm not sure how long I've had the 200 but it's been a long time. 2008-9 maybe? Same external HDD, that's why I tried swapping them. I do plan on selling all my owned HRs one of these days and I have to make sure they all run well before putting them on eBAY.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Well, got the ole H20 replaced with an H24. BOOOOM! Just like that I moved from 2006 to 2010!


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

J Blow said:


> Replacing an HR24 seems like a funny proposition because that's what replaces everything else.
> 
> I had problems with my 22 and 23 and finally got 24s to replace them. It was great for a while but those 24s started exhibiting some of the same signs as the 22/23s - nothing near as bad, though. Recently, I added a couple boxes back to my system and reactivated those. Surprisingly, they were much better than they were at one time - makes no sense. Actually, there's little difference between those and the 24s.


So, I've just recently reactivated the 22 and 23 - partly because I'm waiting on access cards - and as I mentioned above, they worked pretty well....for a few days. They are absolute dogs again after being operational for a bit. Pushing the guide button brings up the guide just fine, as long as you have all the time in the world to wait for it.

It's rather comical that this is the best they can do with equipment.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> So, I've just recently reactivated the 22 and 23 - partly because I'm waiting on access cards - and as I mentioned above, they worked pretty well....for a few days. They are absolute dogs again after being operational for a bit. Pushing the guide button brings up the guide just fine, as long as you have all the time in the world to wait for it.
> 
> It's rather comical that this is the best they can do with equipment.


The problems aren't just the equipment, mostly it's the software. The HRs are fast when they're new or refurbed, the software slows them down. The 22s and 23s are poor DVRs at best, they really shouldn't have been made.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> The problems aren't just the equipment, mostly it's the software. The HRs are fast when they're new or refurbed, the software slows them down. The 22s and 23s are poor DVRs at best, they really shouldn't have been made.
> 
> Rich


I'm on my last leg with these ass clowns. I called in originally to activate a couple receivers to replace these garbage 22/23s but didn't have a new access card...because that's absolutely necessary. At that point I call in to get 3 new access cards. They can't do that. Only one at a time. Ok, send me one card, I'll call back tomorrow for another. They are going to overnight it. I call back the next day, order another. They have no record of the first order. I talk a little longer and they tell me they can replace the H20 (with a 7 year old H24) and will send an access card, too. I get an email saying my receiver will be sent to an address I had 11 years and 3 addressed ago. I call in immediately and straighten that out. Still today, no cards, no receiver. I call back. I get a tracking number. It's sitting 200 miles away from, undeliverable, because it's an 11 year old address. The csr vows it will get straightened out and all 3 cards I need are in the box. Why would 2 cards that were to be overnighted be in a box that was sent 2 days later?

10 year old technology to 10 year old address is the only thing that really makes sense in all this.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> I'm on my last leg with these ass clowns. I called in originally to activate a couple receivers to replace these garbage 22/23s but didn't have a new access card...because that's absolutely necessary. At that point I call in to get 3 new access cards. They can't do that. Only one at a time. Ok, send me one card, I'll call back tomorrow for another. They are going to overnight it. I call back the next day, order another. They have no record of the first order. I talk a little longer and they tell me they can replace the H20 (with a 7 year old H24) and will send an access card, too. I get an email saying my receiver will be sent to an address I had 11 years and 3 addressed ago. I call in immediately and straighten that out. Still today, no cards, no receiver. I call back. I get a tracking number. It's sitting 200 miles away from, undeliverable, because it's an 11 year old address. *The csr vows* it will get straightened out and all 3 cards I need are in the box. Why would 2 cards that were to be overnighted be in a box that was sent 2 days later?
> 
> 10 year old technology to 10 year old address is the only thing that really makes sense in all this.


They will say anything to pacify you. If you're still having problems the best advice is to call Retention or whatever they call it now. Just call the D* number and tell the automated voice, "I want to cancel" and you'll be directed to...whatever has taken the place of the Retention Department. They should be able to get you straightened out.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

I didn't call retention but I did join online chat and explain my problem and ask that someone with some authority give me a call. They did.

So, they are actually sending me 3 'new' receivers. The thing is, I could have done this from the start but I wanted to replace these slow DVRs with a little bit faster H25s. I actually paid for the H25s instead of going this route of having them send me upgrades for $20 each. That would have been a lot cheaper and lot less time consuming. 

Again, just let us buy new f#$%!&@ equipment and not require it to trigger a commitment and much of this headache could be solved....and they'd save a lot of CSR time, too.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

J Blow said:


> I didn't call retention but I did join online chat and explain my problem and ask that someone with some authority give me a call. They did.
> 
> So, they are actually sending me 3 'new' receivers. The thing is, I could have done this from the start but I wanted to replace these slow DVRs with a little bit faster H25s. I actually paid for the H25s instead of going this route of having them send me upgrades for $20 each. That would have been a lot cheaper and lot less time consuming.
> 
> Again, just let us buy new f#$%!&@ equipment and not require it to trigger a commitment and much of this headache could be solved....and they'd save a lot of CSR time, too.


Problem is that they had a really successful business model, but had a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. I think their business model is beginning to get outdated and needs refurbishing.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

bjdotson said:


> Problem is that they had a really successful business model, but had a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. I think their business model is beginning to get outdated and needs refurbishing.


When you're business model includes refusing to replace HD DVRs with H25s, certainly makes me question it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> When you're business model includes refusing to replace HD DVRs with H25s, certainly makes me question it.


I've never seen anything to make me believe D* is a well run business. Yeah, it's the best provider out there but that's probably gonna change over the next few years.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

AT&T bought them for nearly $50 billion, so they were obviously well run in the most important way - profitability. A lot of the decisions we don't like, such as making equipment with the lowest specs possible and re-using them on new customers for years, were probably correct from a business sense as they would have spent a lot more on equipment over the years if they had built it to a higher spec and retired it more quickly.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> AT&T bought them for nearly $50 billion, so they were obviously well run in the most important way - profitability. A lot of the decisions we don't like, such as making equipment with the lowest specs possible and re-using them on new customers for years, were probably correct from a business sense as they would have spent a lot more on equipment over the years if they had built it to a higher spec and retired it more quickly.


They acquired the exclusive rights to the nfl programming. Nothing else can be accurately measured as a result.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rich said:


> I've never seen anything to make me believe D* is a well run business.


Billions in profit and a still increasing number of subscribers in a market where most companies are posting a decline. They seem to be doing something right.

It is easy to throw stones. But as much as I respect the posters on this forum they are not Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or any other successful businessmen who can judge DIRECTV or any other multi-billion dollar operation as a peer. I am not in Bill or Warren's place either. DIRECTV was successful ... AT&T|DIRECTV is continuing to be successful. Not recognizing their success is not logical.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

James Long said:


> Billions in profit and a still increasing number of subscribers in a market where most companies are posting a decline. They seem to be doing something right.
> 
> It is easy to throw stones. But as much as I respect the posters on this forum they are not Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or any other successful businessmen who can judge DIRECTV or any other multi-billion dollar operation as a peer. I am not in Bill or Warren's place either. DIRECTV was successful ... AT&T|DIRECTV is continuing to be successful. Not recognizing their success is not logical.


Nobody is not recognizing their success. Again, they have the market completely cornered with the football rights. I'm actually more intrigued by the idea that they deserve this blanket "great job" along with the consideration they've done the best possible job just because they haven't failed. They are in the position to offer whatever garbage and equipment they want to due to people like me that can't/don't dump them until the football is gone.

I don't think they've done a terrible job and I'm not even saying it hasn't been the most profitable way to do it but sometimes the outcomes are immeasurable. Other times you can clod along doing a subpar job and appear successful and it doesn't mean you couldn't have done much better it will continue to be successful forever.

Sure, many people are clueless to technology but I wouldn't bank on that trend for a century.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

James Long said:


> Billions in profit and a still increasing number of subscribers in a market where most companies are posting a decline. They seem to be doing something right.
> 
> It is easy to throw stones. But as much as I respect the posters on this forum they are not Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or any other successful businessmen who can judge DIRECTV or any other multi-billion dollar operation as a peer. I am not in Bill or Warren's place either. DIRECTV was successful ... AT&T|DIRECTV is continuing to be successful. Not recognizing their success is not logical.


The assumption that they couldn't be run better and the people in charge are the absolute best for the job is a ponderous take.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

J Blow said:


> The assumption that they couldn't be run better and the people in charge are the absolute best for the job is a ponderous take.


Well sure, but name one company that couldn't be run better. The most successful company of all right now is Apple, but there is certainly plenty of room for argument that had they done a few things differently in the last five years they'd be even MORE successful today.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

J Blow said:


> I'm actually more intrigued by the idea that they deserve this blanket "great job" ...


Why does the discussion need to go to the extremes? DIRECTV is "a well run business" despite annoying selected customers. Nobody said they do everything right, but that doesn't mean the business is not run well. (Certainly better than anyone complaining on the Internet could run it.)

The industry is changing ... I'm not sure AT&T|DIRECTV could be doing better than they are. I can't say that DIRECTV would be operating better or worse if they had not been bought by AT&T. But I can say that it is a lot easier to post "DIRECTV sucks" than to make it suck less. And I have never found insulting a multi-billion dollar successful company being useful.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> Nobody is not recognizing their success. Again, they have the market completely cornered with the football rights. I'm actually more intrigued by the idea that they deserve this blanket "great job" along with the consideration they've done the best possible job just because they haven't failed. They are in the position to offer whatever garbage and equipment they want to due to people like me that can't/don't dump them until the football is gone.
> 
> I don't think they've done a terrible job and I'm not even saying it hasn't been the most profitable way to do it but sometimes the outcomes are immeasurable. *Other times you can clod along doing a subpar job and appear successful and it doesn't mean you couldn't have done much better it will continue to be successful forever.*
> 
> Sure, many people are clueless to technology but I wouldn't bank on that trend for a century.


Which is why I wrote in my last post: _*Yeah, it's the best provider out there but that's probably gonna change over the next few years. *_

I truly believe we're gonna see a great paradigm shift in the future powered by Internet streaming. D* is the best provider NOW, but that's not saying much. Look at how bad cable companies are and Dish, I have yet to see an argument about Dish having better PQ than D*. I've seen many posts where folks that have had both say D*'s PQ is better and I've never seen anybody argue that point. ATT? They seem to have the same attitude about customers as they do about employees. We used to have a very large ATT presence here and there are lots of folks unhappy with the way they were treated by ATT.

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Which is why I wrote in my last post: _*Yeah, it's the best provider out there but that's probably gonna change over the next few years. *_
> 
> I truly believe we're gonna see a great paradigm shift in the future powered by Internet streaming. D* is the best provider NOW, but that's not saying much. Look at how bad cable companies are and Dish, I have yet to see an argument about Dish having better PQ than D*. I've seen many posts where folks that have had both say D*'s PQ is better and I've never seen anybody argue that point. ATT? They seem to have the same attitude about customers as they do about employees. We used to have a very large ATT presence here and there are lots of folks unhappy with the way they were treated by ATT.
> 
> Rich


That's the funny thing - it will change in time and then all the sudden maximizing short term profit won't seem nearly as important. There are still people that seemingly don't understand some of the reasons it's a successful company. They simply don't face some of the things many other companies do. First, they have one true competitor - that in itself is already a pretty substantial advantage. That competitor seems to have what's universally accepted as the cheaper product, the better customer service, the better equipment AND the better product quality. What's left? Yet, DirecTv still holds the advantage today. That makes the argument that it's a well run company? Why is it hard to accept that sometimes you just get yourself into a position where success is easy and it can be despite poor performance? I'm not saying Directv is a terrible company. I'm certainly not saying that it isn't profitable. I'm also not going to give them undue credit and ignore everything else because they are doing well. That was never the discussion.

By the way, AT&T was going to reject the Directv acquisition had they not again secured exclusive rights to the NFL package. I bet Ford could be crushing GM right now by offering subpar equipment, less quality, and a more expensive product if they were the only company allowed to offer 4 wheel drive vehicles.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> That's the funny thing - it will change in time and then all the sudden maximizing short term profit won't seem nearly as important. There are still people that seemingly don't understand some of the reasons it's a successful company. They simply don't face some of the things many other companies do. First, they have one true competitor - that in itself is already a pretty substantial advantage. That competitor seems to have what's universally accepted as the cheaper product, the better customer service, the better equipment *AND the better product quality*. What's left? Yet, DirecTv still holds the advantage today. That makes the argument that it's a well run company? Why is it hard to accept that sometimes you just get yourself into a position where success is easy and it can be despite poor performance? I'm not saying Directv is a terrible company. I'm certainly not saying that it isn't profitable. I'm also not going to give them undue credit and ignore everything else because they are doing well. That was never the discussion.
> 
> By the way, AT&T was going to reject the Directv acquisition had they not again secured exclusive rights to the NFL package. I bet Ford could be crushing GM right now by offering subpar equipment, less quality, and a more expensive product if they were the only company allowed to offer 4 wheel drive vehicles.


Good post! I have no idea what Dish is like, just know what I've read. And what I've read is the PQ on D* content is better than the same content on Dish. I've never heard or read anyone saying Dish has a better picture. That's what has stopped me from considering Dish. Isn't the picture the point? Isn't that the "product"?

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Good post! I have no idea what Dish is like, just know what I've read. And what I've read is the PQ on D* content is better than the same content on Dish. I've never heard or read anyone saying Dish has a better picture. That's what has stopped me from considering Dish. Isn't the picture the point? Isn't that the "product"?
> 
> Rich


I have a couple friends that do swear Dish has a better picture but there are many factors here. Honestly, I don't care because I'm happy with the DTV quality and I literally have no other choices since I need the NFL package. THAT's the point to me, at least until DTV doesn't have an acceptable picture.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Good post! I have no idea what Dish is like, just know what I've read. And what I've read is the PQ on D* content is better than the same content on Dish. I've never heard or read anyone saying Dish has a better picture. That's what has stopped me from considering Dish. Isn't the picture the point? Isn't that the "product"?
> 
> Rich


I've had both at differing times, even a short period of having both. The HD PQ on D* is marginally better compared to E*'s except for the Hopper 3 on which it really is nearly the same IMO.

Comparison's made on a 70" Sharp 4K TV from about 9'. Up close to count pixels, D*'s is a little better.

Currently I have both a Hopper 3 and local cable with a Tivo Bolt. Great picture on both. To me, the HD PQ for all 3 is close enough that it isn't a consideration.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> I've had both at differing times, even a short period of having both. The HD PQ on D* is marginally better compared to E*'s except for the Hopper 3 on which it really is nearly the same IMO.
> 
> Comparison's made on a 70" Sharp 4K TV from about 9'. Up close to count pixels, D*'s is a little better.
> 
> ...


As usual, I'll take your post as Gospel. Thanx.

Rich


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I haven't had Dish but I've had a bunch of cable stuff over the last 8 years and DirecTV has better quality, better DVR, better service etc than all of them combined. Do I like the price - no but that is probably the only thing I don't like. Sure there are all things that we'd love to change to match our exact needs but that isn't going to happen for everyone. I don't understand why people think it is so bad.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

IMO, comparing DVRs, I would rank the ones I've used in the following order:
Best overall - Hopper 3, actually all the Hoppers
2nd = Tivo
3rd - HR anything.

The sole thing that gives Tivo a slight nod over D's stuff is the integration of some streaming services. Otherwise their guide width and other interactions are not any better than D*'s.

The Hopper 3 and all Hoppers are hands down just so much better than anything else.

As to service, well I've never had issues that weren't promptly solved with any of them, so I'd give them all an equal score on that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I think which equipment is better just comes down to personal preference. I rank the Tivo way way above both the Hopper and Genie. On specs obviously the Hopper 3 easily beats the HS17, but software wise I think they both stink. YMMV.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I think which equipment is better just comes down to personal preference. I rank the Tivo way way above both the Hopper and Genie. On specs obviously the Hopper 3 easily beats the HS17, but software wise I think they both stink. YMMV.


There's some truth to preference but there's just no claiming that DirecTv is where they should be for equipment if you're being honest with yourself. I was lucky enough to get my H20 replaced this week. Although I can't blame DTV entirely for keeping my 2006 H20 in rotation, I can blame them for replacing it with a 'new' model from 2010. Just say that out loud. A technology company sent me out a replacement from 2010. We could talk about a lot of things that wouldn't make much difference over 7 years. Any electronics devices couldn't possibly be one of them. Could you imagine if your cell phone company sent you out a phone to replace your 2006 Blackberry with a bright, shiny, new 7 years ago Galaxy S1?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

it's unfair comparison STB to phones!

technology of sat signal doesn't changed as cell phones !


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

J Blow said:


> First, they have one true competitor - that in itself is already a pretty substantial advantage. .


I would argue that it competes against any company that brings video entertainment to consumers. That's Dish, all the cable companies, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and even companies like Crackle.
How did DTV did during 2Q17?

_In Q2, historically a seasonally weak period for the pay-TV business, DirecTV's U.S. satellite division lost 156,000 customers sequentially, dropping to 20.86 million, compared with a gain of 342,000 in the year-earlier quarter_


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> it's unfair comparison STB to phones!
> 
> technology of sat signal doesn't changed as cell phones !


Yea, that's the point. You can bet if they didn't have consumers in a box they'd be making greater strides.

Sure it's not a direct comparison but technology is technology. Find any electronics sector where their best in a class is 7 years old.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> I would argue that it competes against any company that brings video entertainment to consumers. That's Dish, all the cable companies, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and even companies like Crackle.
> How did DTV did during 2Q17?
> 
> _In Q2, historically a seasonally weak period for the pay-TV business, DirecTV's U.S. satellite division lost 156,000 customers sequentially, dropping to 20.86 million, compared with a gain of 342,000 in the year-earlier quarter_


None of those services are available at my location except dtv and dish. One true competitor.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

J Blow said:


> Sure it's not a direct comparison but technology is technology. Find any electronics sector where their best in a class is 7 years old.


nope, THAT'S DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES !!!
you mixing apples and flowers 
look, your stove/freezer/etc are many years old and still doing its job pretty well
and I'm still writing program using C/C++ and C#


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

J Blow said:


> There's some truth to preference but there's just no claiming that DirecTv is where they should be for equipment if you're being honest with yourself. I was lucky enough to get my H20 replaced this week. Although I can't blame DTV entirely for keeping my 2006 H20 in rotation, I can blame them for replacing it with a 'new' model from 2010. Just say that out loud. A technology company sent me out a replacement from 2010. We could talk about a lot of things that wouldn't make much difference over 7 years. Any electronics devices couldn't possibly be one of them. Could you imagine if your cell phone company sent you out a phone to replace your 2006 Blackberry with a bright, shiny, new 7 years ago Galaxy S1?


If you replace a standalone receiver with another standalone receiver you have to get something old. The latest standalone receiver is the H25, which was introduced almost seven years ago. They haven't made any newer standalone receivers because they decided years ago their future direction would be client/server, and it is unlikely we'll ever see a newer standalone receiver than the H25.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> If you replace a standalone receiver with another standalone receiver you have to get something old. The latest standalone receiver is the H25, which was introduced almost seven years ago. They haven't made any newer standalone receivers because they decided years ago their future direction would be client/server, and it is unlikely we'll ever see a newer standalone receiver than the H25.


I understand. It's a h24, but I get the point. I also get that they could think outside the box a little and trade it for a h25 or even a client, but they won't. They're cool with handing out 7 year old used equipment.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> nope, THAT'S DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES !!!
> you mixing apples and flowers
> look, your stove/freezer/etc are many years old and still doing its job pretty well
> and I'm still writing program using C/C++ and C#


Now you're starting to get it. Many competitors have refrigerators that are networked and/or Bluetoothed to your phone for cool features like monitoring your temps and inventories and other new forward thinking things like an lcd screen, very functional compartments, etc. Pretty awesome. Directv....well, they have the refrigerator my grandpa has in his garage. It cools products, at a slow rate and with terrible efficiency but does nothing else...and there's people that somehow believe it's every bit as good as a new one because it still works.

If GE had territorial rights and was the only one allowed to cool milk, many would argue they have a well run business because they are profitable today and people are buying GE.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

we can circling around forever, but as I told you, technology what DTV is using in their STB: MPEG-2/MPEG-4/APG/etc doesn't changed last 5-7 years for 99.9% of channels

if you aiming for latest 4k/UHD picture now, take HS17 or HR54 and enjoy it  with controlling it by your latest iphone


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> we can circling around forever, but as I told you, technology what DTV is using in their STB: MPEG-2/MPEG-4/APG/etc doesn't changed last 5-7 years for 99.9% of channels
> 
> if you aiming for latest 4k/UHD picture now, take HS17 or HR54 and enjoy it  with controlling it by your latest iphone


Bottom line remains the same. They aren't the leader in technology (and other things) and it's readily apparent...buy many of you are ok with that and even chalk it up to being more profitable, which is absolutely true. My point is that they have the market cornered for various reasons and don't feel compelled to provide their best but rather maximize profit. So, while some will twist that into then being a well-run company as a result, I'm saying they are doing well now despite not possibly being well run but don't be surprised if the wheels fall off with this model where many are so sure is the brain child of this genius crew.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> we can circling around forever, but as I told you, technology what DTV is using in their STB: MPEG-2/MPEG-4/APG/etc doesn't changed last 5-7 years for 99.9% of channels
> 
> if you aiming for latest 4k/UHD picture now, take HS17 or HR54 and enjoy it  with controlling it by your latest iphone


Just out of curiosity, what equipment are you using? It's mind blowing to me that they even let someone use an h20 or hr22/23, etc....except they have most people by the nut satchel. If they were so well run and insightful, they'd be much more concerned about consumer experience and usability and require at least an hr24 or h24/25. Too many people with choices don't realize what's out there and eventually just dump their subscription thinking their equipment is probably what's available. At the very least, once they cancel, directv then has to give them reduced pricing and then probably upgrade equipment any way just to get them back - if they do...instead of just not letting them get away from the start.

What I really don't understand is letting manufacturers do the technology work for them. They could have a hybrid approach of owned and leased and please both the technology junkies and the oblivious. Cell phone companies finally figured out how to move to owned models where consumers finance their own level of technology lead where others with less concern can get the same level of service but reduced expense/technology on the other side.

But, as has been pointed out, it's all about profits in the short run while counting on the current limiting factors remaining persistent. Time may change things.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

J Blow said:


> Bottom line remains the same. They aren't the leader in technology (and other things) and it's readily apparent...buy many of you are ok with that and even chalk it up to being more profitable, which is absolutely true. My point is that they have the market cornered for various reasons and don't feel compelled to provide their best but rather maximize profit. So, while some will twist that into then being a well-run company as a result, I'm saying they are doing well now despite not possibly being well run but don't be surprised if the wheels fall off with this model where many are so sure is the brain child of this genius crew.


OK what technology do you want that they are missing? Once you have the list of features you want, explain for each why you think it would be a feature that would matter to a lot of people, rather than only 1% of their customer base.

Pretty much everything people list as something that's missing (whether hardware capabilities, software features, channels, etc.) the vast majority don't care about. The people who read and post in forums like dbstalk are the 1%, and there aren't enough of us for a company the size of Directv to change directions and decide to become "the technology leader" just because we see ways they could improve things.

You know what the vast majority do care about? Price. They see their bill go up every year, and are starting to push back by going to a smaller package or dumping cable/satellite altogether. Adding new features is not going to get those people to stay. It will make them leave in greater numbers as the cost of developing those new features is reflected in their bill.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

So, if the primary driver is price, DTV loses again...and proves that they are succeeding despite their business model.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

After thinking a little more about the current DirecTV technologies, I decided to look into the latest and greatest DTV offering - the HS17. I didn't look long at all before literally laughing out loud at a max of 7 tuners and no ability to add any sort of additional tuners if this is your equipment. Can anyone seriously say they are doing ok with keeping up with technology? 

Just for fun, I spent 2 minutes looking at the closest competitor - the Hopper 3. Again...LOL.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> After thinking a little more about the current DirecTV technologies, I decided to look into the latest and greatest DTV offering - the HS17. I didn't look long at all before literally laughing out loud at a max of 7 tuners and no ability to add any sort of additional tuners if this is your equipment. Can anyone seriously say they are doing ok with keeping up with technology?
> 
> Just for fun, I spent 2 minutes looking at the closest competitor - the Hopper 3. Again...LOL.


I think what we're seeing and what you're talking about (I do agree with what you've written) is similar to what the Mets went thru a few years ago. Their management folks were content to put a shabby team on the field as long as the seats in the stadium were filled, then the fans kinda gave up and stopped going to games. That woke up the owners and they had no choice but to spend money for new players. Sound familiar?

D* seems to be bleeding subs, will they wake up and give us a chance to use some new, spiffy equipment? I don't really see the HS17 as "spiffy", it's not that much different from the HR44 I use as a server. Is it worth a 2 year commitment? I kinda doubt it.

Rich


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

J Blow said:


> After thinking a little more about the current DirecTV technologies, I decided to look into the latest and greatest DTV offering - the HS17. I didn't look long at all before literally laughing out loud at a max of 7 tuners and no ability to add any sort of additional tuners if this is your equipment. Can anyone seriously say they are doing ok with keeping up with technology?
> 
> Just for fun, I spent 2 minutes looking at the closest competitor - the Hopper 3. Again...LOL.


I would agree if all anyone cared about was the number of tuners?....Now I am a sports fan, and I only have one real option....If someone only watches recorded programming I guess the hopper is the only answer?.....I cant watch an out-of-state NFL game with any hopper!
So its narrow minded, but id it works great!....Its still just an opinion.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

AZ. said:


> I would agree if all anyone cared about was the number of tuners?....Now I am a sports fan, and I only have one real option....If someone only watches recorded programming I guess the hopper is the only answer?.....I cant watch an out-of-state NFL game with any hopper!
> So its narrow minded, but id it works great!....Its still just an opinion.


As I've been saying...They have us sports guys, especially nfl fans, by the nut satchel. It's exactly why they can offer subpar equipment and remain 'successful'.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> I think what we're seeing and what you're talking about (I do agree with what you've written) is similar to what the Mets went thru a few years ago. Their management folks were content to put a shabby team on the field as long as the seats in the stadium were filled, then the fans kinda gave up and stopped going to games. That woke up the owners and they had no choice but to spend money for new players. Sound familiar?
> 
> D* seems to be bleeding subs, will they wake up and give us a chance to use some new, spiffy equipment? I don't really see the HS17 as "spiffy", it's not that much different from the HR44 I use as a server. Is it worth a 2 year commitment? I kinda doubt it.
> 
> Rich


I find it hard to believe I'm that unusual. I wouldn't even want the hs17....for half price of my billing. I absolutely need more than 7 tuners for my setup and I absolutely need more than a single server in addition. When your latest and greatest unit is unwanted due to very simple limitations, you shouldn't garner support for adequate equipment.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> I think what we're seeing and what you're talking about (I do agree with what you've written) is similar to what the Mets went thru a few years ago. Their management folks were content to put a shabby team on the field as long as the seats in the stadium were filled, then the fans kinda gave up and stopped going to games. That woke up the owners and they had no choice but to spend money for new players. Sound familiar?
> 
> D* seems to be bleeding subs, will they wake up and give us a chance to use some new, spiffy equipment? I don't really see the HS17 as "spiffy", it's not that much different from the HR44 I use as a server. Is it worth a 2 year commitment? I kinda doubt it.
> 
> Rich


Very similar. They are assuming the gravy train will continue to roll. It might...As long as they have football. It might not either.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If you need more than 7 tuners, the HS17 is not for you. Probably 1-2% of Directv's subscriber base needs/wants more than 7 tuners. For now they would get a Genie and as many HR2x/H2x as necessary to cover their needs. Yeah it sucks that you need to get older equipment to fill a huge house but if you're unhappy with Directv's offerings there is always Dish and your local cable company to consider.

I expect they will eventually allow more than one HS17 per account, because I don't see Directv abandoning that segment of customers completely as even though it is a small percentage of customers they are probably the most profitable and least likely to cut the cord. Right now they aren't even allowing new customers to get the HS17, it is for upgrades only. There are probably production constraints on it for now, and it will take time to loosen restrictions to allow new customers to add it and then hopefully customers to add more than one.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

I have 14 tuners now. I do realize I'm not the norm but it's hard to believe that I'm the 1%. I know plenty of people beyond 7 tuners and it's more than 1 other guy in 200 people. I do get your point and ya, it really sucks, which has been my point from the start. I'm frustrated with the approach that they've taken with equipment (because they should be a leader in technology, not sucking hind tit) among other things. What are they the leader in? Maybe picture quality? Maybe. If success is synonymous with great or well-run company, then I'll argue that until the end of time. Unfortunately, I have no other real options. 

The thing with someday offering more than one HS-17, even that won't solve my problem. What's so difficult about adding standalone boxes on these systems? What's so hard about adding a second genie to an account? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for the limitations at this point as I've read and understand. The point is that it isn't an unsolvable problem for someone that should have great technology. Dish is coming out with 16 tuner hoppers that can be PART of a system. Directv jumps in the ring, years later, with their 7 tuner marvel with other limitations. Ya, it's good enough for most but what are they trying to build here? If so, is Dish doing it wrong? So, while I still really like a lot of things about DirecTv, I'm stuck with them. Let's separate well-run from profitable.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

J Blow said:


> After thinking a little more about the current DirecTV technologies, I decided to look into the latest and greatest DTV offering - the HS17. I didn't look long at all before literally laughing out loud at a max of 7 tuners and no ability to add any sort of additional tuners if this is your equipment. Can anyone seriously say they are doing ok with keeping up with technology?
> 
> Just for fun, I spent 2 minutes looking at the closest competitor - the Hopper 3. Again...LOL.


Honestly there are a lot of things I find fault in for your arguments about DIRECTV falling way behind and not swapping two tuners for genies...

But... in my area which is Los Angeles dish is NOT even an option. No lakers. And if you had ever checked out charters cable boxes you'd understand why DIRECTV is about a century ahead till maybe charter launches their new who Home DVR this year.

I am not saying DIRECTV should be better. Replay tv was better than any DVR from anyone today in a lot of ways and they haven't been around for a decade!!! They should be better but they aren't as bad as you think.

And there is no way DIRECTV should just be automatically upgrading anyone with a non genie. That's not logical in any way. When was the last time car companies did that because new cars have better breaks and more safety features? It just doesn't make sense.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Honestly there are a lot of things I find fault in for your arguments about DIRECTV falling way behind and not swapping two tuners for genies...
> 
> But... in my area which is Los Angeles dish is NOT even an option. No lakers. And if you had ever checked out charters cable boxes you'd understand why DIRECTV is about a century ahead till maybe charter launches their new who Home DVR this year.
> 
> ...


Ya, you're clearly missing what I'm saying about something or I'm very unclear...maybe both. I don't recall anything about two tuners, genie, etc. but they absolutely not have people out there using h20s or non 24 dvrs. Many people won't deal with 20 second channel changes for long when you combine it with bad customer service and the most expensive gig in town. Why offer such a terrible product and then have to work to regain a customer? The discounts they end up giving could be offset in a couple months with some sensible equipment upgrades.

By the way, just remembered what you may be thinking I said. I'm not suggesting trading in anything for a genie...or even a single tuner for a dvr. What I said was to make some sensible exceptions. They wouldn't even let me trade an old H23 for a client or H25...nope...only option was another dvr.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

J Blow said:


> The thing with someday offering more than one HS-17, even that won't solve my problem. What's so difficult about adding standalone boxes on these systems? What's so hard about adding a second genie to an account?


I think Directv has made the decision that client/server is their future, and with the HS17 they apparently decided to cut ties with the past and not allow any older equipment on the same account. It isn't a technical limitation, it is a business decision to reduce support costs. Obviously there are some big issues with that unless they relax the one Genie per account policy - what about people who need more than 7 tuners, or people who want to bring a receiver to tailgate?

Curious what problem you have that multiple HS17s wouldn't solve? If you want more recording tuners, that solves it. If you want more TVs, that solves it. If you want more recording timers, that solves it. If you want to be able to bring a box tailgating or to a second home that solves it - though clearly it would be more of a pain since you'd have to bring an HS17 plus a client. Of course technically this sort of thing has always been against Directv's TOS even though they never enforced it, so they may not care about making this a bit more of a pain...


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I remembered reading that AT&T want's to move from a hardware based solution to a software based solution. I found that article.

AT&T To Offer Cloud-Based DVR To Streaming Services

"Also, like its rivals in cable, AT&T wants to move as many services as possible away from set top boxes and other hardware and into software housed on internet servers. That makes it much easier to change features and interfaces for all users."


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I think Directv has made the decision that client/server is their future, and with the HS17 they apparently decided to cut ties with the past and not allow any older equipment on the same account. It isn't a technical limitation, it is a business decision to reduce support costs. Obviously there are some big issues with that unless they relax the one Genie per account policy - what about people who need more than 7 tuners, or people who want to bring a receiver to tailgate?
> 
> Curious what problem you have that multiple HS17s wouldn't solve? If you want more recording tuners, that solves it. If you want more TVs, that solves it. If you want more recording timers, that solves it. If you want to be able to bring a box tailgating or to a second home that solves it - though clearly it would be more of a pain since you'd have to bring an HS17 plus a client. Of course technically this sort of thing has always been against Directv's TOS even though they never enforced it, so they may not care about making this a bit more of a pain...


The number of tuners problem does seem relatively easy to solve with a single solution, but they haven't done it yet. The bigger problem I have is my current install requires two dishes due to distance between buildings. It's much easier to do that than a long cable run - for numerous reasons. You hit on the other reasons, too...RV, vacation home, camping, etc. I understand perfectly well why they don't have a desire to find a solution there, though.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> I remembered reading that AT&T want's to move from a hardware based solution to a software based solution. I found that article.
> 
> AT&T To Offer Cloud-Based DVR To Streaming Services
> 
> "Also, like its rivals in cable, AT&T wants to move as many services as possible away from set top boxes and other hardware and into software housed on internet servers. That makes it much easier to change features and interfaces for all users."


While I understand the idea, surely they have the sense to realize that some of their customers don't have access to internet speeds that would allow a cloud based system...or internet at all, like a house we have. I guess we do have the option for satellite internet but there are data limits there. Overall I see the benefit but we just aren't there, yet.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

J Blow said:


> The number of tuners problem does seem relatively easy to solve with a single solution, but they haven't done it yet. The bigger problem I have is my current install requires two dishes due to distance between buildings. It's much easier to do that than a long cable run - for numerous reasons. You hit on the other reasons, too...RV, vacation home, camping, etc. I understand perfectly well why they don't have a desire to find a solution there, though.


Well theoretically if they had a single box that could do as many tuners as you need, or seven tuners was enough for you, this wouldn't be an issue. The 'server' is the only box that needs the dish, the clients don't. You'd locate the HS17 in whichever building you decided you wanted the dish, and the clients would be wherever you wanted. You'd just need some sort of network connection between the buildings - which could be via cat5, fiber, coax, or wireless.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> *I find it hard to believe I'm that unusual.* I wouldn't even want the hs17....for half price of my billing. I absolutely need more than 7 tuners for my setup and I absolutely need more than a single server in addition. When your latest and greatest unit is unwanted due to very simple limitations, you shouldn't garner support for adequate equipment.


Here, you're not unusual. But compared to the general public your demands (and mine) are certainly unusual.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> Very similar. They are assuming the gravy train will continue to roll. It might...As long as they have football. It might not either.


They're losing subs, they've introduced a streaming service...think they introduced D* Now because their subs needed a streaming service? I don't, I think they've seen the future and the future is streaming. I have no doubt the NFL and MLB will see the same future and...do something streaming-wise. Companies that are successful just keep on rolling...then reality sets in and they end up disappearing. Do folks remember Union Carbide, one of the largest conglomerates in the world at one time (might have been the largest) and now gone? I do, I watched it expire. Tremendously successful, we thought it would never end...then one dumb decision after another and just gone...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> I have 14 tuners now. I do realize I'm not the norm but it's hard to believe that I'm the 1%. I know plenty of people beyond 7 tuners and it's more than 1 other guy in 200 people. I do get your point and ya, it really sucks, which has been my point from the start. I'm frustrated with the approach that they've taken with equipment (because they should be a leader in technology, not sucking hind tit) among other things. What are they the leader in? Maybe picture quality? Maybe. If success is synonymous with great or well-run company, then I'll argue that until the end of time. Unfortunately, I have no other real options.
> 
> The thing with someday offering more than one HS-17, even that won't solve my problem. What's so difficult about adding standalone boxes on these systems? What's so hard about adding a second genie to an account? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for the limitations at this point as I've read and understand. The point is that it isn't an unsolvable problem for someone that should have great technology. Dish is coming out with 16 tuner hoppers that can be PART of a system. Directv jumps in the ring, years later, with their 7 tuner marvel with other limitations. Ya, it's good enough for most but what are they trying to build here? If so, is Dish doing it wrong? So, while I still really like a lot of things about DirecTv, I'm stuck with them. *Let's separate well-run from profitable.*


In my previous analogy I used the Mets as an example of that. It stands as a good example of your statement and it seems obvious that's what we are seeing now from D*.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> I remembered reading that AT&T want's to move from a hardware based solution to a software based solution. I found that article.
> 
> AT&T To Offer Cloud-Based DVR To Streaming Services
> 
> "Also, like its rivals in cable, AT&T wants to move as many services as possible away from set top boxes and other hardware and into software housed on internet servers. That makes it much easier to change features and interfaces for all users."


They've seen the future and are scrambling to find a way to deal with it.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I would think that for most, the HS17 with 3 minis would be the biggest practical installation with client server. More than that could make managing recordings a bit more of a chore. The use of multiple HRs gives you more tuners but also makes managing recordings a bit of a PITA depending on how much you change your recordings around.

That is what makes the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners such a joy to use, you literally never have to think about recordings vs live watching. I had thought that D* would have made more tuners available with their new HS17 than just bumping it up by 2. But looking at the history of D* I shouldn't have been surprised at all. From the start with the HR20 with 2 sat and 2 OTA tuners but only allowing for 2 to be used at once and following the progression it seems to me that D* has always taken a somewhat minimalist approach to their gear and software. i.e.: bring out something that fits for a current need but lacking in much for future proofing.

Going forward with dwindling cable/sat subscribers I suspect some things will have to change, hopefully for the better.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

J Blow said:


> I have 14 tuners now. I do realize I'm not the norm but it's hard to believe that I'm the 1%. I know plenty of people beyond 7 tuners and it's more than 1 other guy in 200 people. I do get your point and ya, it really sucks, which has been my point from the start. I'm frustrated with the approach that they've taken with equipment (because they should be a leader in technology, not sucking hind tit) among other things. What are they the leader in? Maybe picture quality? Maybe. If success is synonymous with great or well-run company, then I'll argue that until the end of time. Unfortunately, I have no other real options.


IMO, D*'s two 'features' that set them apart are:
1. NFL Sunday package (and overall better sports coverage)
2. Slightly better HDPQ than E* and at least some cable providers.

It certainly isn't the hardware or the software on them IMO. Virtually all other boxes and software are at minimum equal to them and in many cases, better in both. Of those 2, the sports coverage is the biggie IMO.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Sports coverage has always been DIRECTV's ace in the hole.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Sports coverage has always been DIRECTV's ace in the hole.


What do you think will happen when a streaming sports service (with a 30 day cloud DVR function) finally comes out?

Rich


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Rich said:


> What do you think will happen when a streaming sports service (with a 30 day cloud DVR function) finally comes out?
> 
> Rich


Not much because there's still a sizeable part of the population that doesn't have access to high speed internet.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> What do you think will happen when a streaming sports service (with a 30 day cloud DVR function) finally comes out?
> 
> Rich


Not just sports, but all streaming is undergoing changes that are going to impact cable/sat and people's wallets. Disney will have a couple services it appears, CBS has set the bar for a single channel service and so forth.

Bottom line seems to be that for those that though ala carte was the panacea are in for a shock.

When that all goes into place then we will have a better idea of just how cable/sat will fit in the grand scheme. Personally I think cable/sat will do OK going forward because they all do things so much better than any of the streaming services do, and if channel costs for the streamers go where I think they will, cable/sat will be competitive.

Time will tell of course.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I guess we are the exception on the other side - Rarely have more than 1 tv on at a time and that is probably in the morning when we aren't recording anything. We watch something and delete the recording - usually have > 80% free space on hard drive on HR44. Have we run into a case where trying to record too many - sure maybe but very occasionally. I like having the simplicity of 1 "server" and not having to figure out where to record which - like back in the old days before whole home. 
I do think at some point DirecTV will have to provide more "tuners" whether real tuners or if you press record it is just marking it on their cloud somewhere and it shows up on you recorded list.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I would think that for most, the HS17 with 3 minis would be the biggest practical installation with client server. More than that could make managing recordings a bit more of a chore. The use of multiple HRs gives you more tuners but also makes managing recordings a bit of a PITA depending on how much you change your recordings around.
> 
> That is what makes the Hopper 3 with 16 tuners such a joy to use, you literally never have to think about recordings vs live watching. I had thought that D* would have made more tuners available with their new HS17 than just bumping it up by 2. But looking at the history of D* I shouldn't have been surprised at all. From the start with the HR20 with 2 sat and 2 OTA tuners but only allowing for 2 to be used at once and following the progression it seems to me that D* has always taken a somewhat minimalist approach to their gear and software. i.e.: bring out something that fits for a current need but lacking in much for future proofing.
> 
> Going forward with dwindling cable/sat subscribers I suspect some things will have to change, hopefully for the better.


I can't see why you think having more than 3 minis is an issue.. have all 7 it's the same thing. The issue will always be simple, how many things are on at one time that the household will want to see. If it's seven or less no issues. If it's more and some are things on cable channels that repeats, which almost all cable channels do, then still no problem.

With that said I am very jealous of the 16 tuners at dish. It's ridiculous that DIRECTV didn't have at least 10 on the hs17 to me.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rich said:


> What do you think will happen when a streaming sports service (with a 30 day cloud DVR function) finally comes out?


Sports programmers would go bankrupt selling their content to only those who wanted their content. Specialty packages (Extra Innings, Sunday Ticket, etc) work within the limits the leagues have set. But the core programming needs to be paid for by as many people as possible to keep the price manageable for the people who want the content.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Not much because there's still a sizeable part of the population that doesn't have access to high speed internet.


I think that's gonna change soon too.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Not just sports, but all streaming is undergoing changes that are going to impact cable/sat and people's wallets. Disney will have a couple services it appears, CBS has set the bar for a single channel service and so forth.
> 
> Bottom line seems to be that for those that though ala carte was the panacea are in for a shock.
> 
> ...


I don't expect to see a rapid change but I do expect to see both sat providers and cable providers lose subs each quarter. I don't see how anyone could put up with cable TV service, the only choice we have is Cablevision (Optimum) and that's terrible.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> I don't expect to see a rapid change but I do expect to see both sat providers and cable providers lose subs each quarter. I don't see how anyone could put up with cable TV service, the only choice we have is Cablevision (Optimum) and that's terrible.
> 
> Rich


I think what we'll see going forward, is only one sat provider as subs dwindle. I don't expect that to happen soon, but happen eventually when the total subscriber base is too small to allow for both to be profitable.

Those that watch at home will probably be more likely to keep cable/sat if the total cost for streaming or cable/sat get closer together. I fully expect that for the majority that go streaming, the costs will rise to the point cable/sat is.

I'm currently subbed to Mediacom using my Tivo equipment, and Dish with a Hopper 3. I'm keeping Dish as I have a ton of movies recorded that I don't want to lose. It is actually cheaper with both subs with the bundling my cable provider did. Not by a whole lot, but some anyway.

I like the Tivo stuff because of the integrated streamers and the unified search, but overall the Hopper 3 is hands down better.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Rich said:


> I think that's gonna change soon too.
> 
> Rich


I live in Maine and I don't think that is going to change for many areas soon. There are large sections of Maine that don't have cell service. By law the old time phone companies are required to keep service for these people. I think there are large geographical areas of the country that are the same. Want internet = you can get slow sat service for that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> *I think what we'll see going forward, is only one sat provider as subs dwindle.* I don't expect that to happen soon, but happen eventually when the total subscriber base is too small to allow for both to be profitable.
> 
> Those that watch at home will probably be more likely to keep cable/sat if the total cost for streaming or cable/sat get closer together. I fully expect that for the majority that go streaming, the costs will rise to the point cable/sat is.
> 
> ...


That would be a monopoly, would the feds allow that? I don't care how much the streaming providers charge, their product is better, I think, and there are no equipment charges. Right now, I'm paying $200 a month for CNN, The Weather Channel (only for hurricane coverage) and the sports, which I have to have. Been a long time since I watched a series or movie on D*...I'm pretty much done.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CTJon said:


> I live in Maine and I don't think that is going to change for many areas soon. There are large sections of Maine that don't have cell service. By law the old time phone companies are required to keep service for these people. I think there are large geographical areas of the country that are the same. Want internet = you can get slow sat service for that.


I like Maine, been considering a place there. No cable companies that provide TV, phone and Internet? Must have it in Bangor, no?

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> That would be a monopoly, would the feds allow that? I don't care how much the streaming providers charge, their product is better, I think, and there are no equipment charges. Right now, I'm paying $200 a month for CNN, The Weather Channel (only for hurricane coverage) and the sports, which I have to have. Been a long time since I watched a series or movie on D*...I'm pretty much done.
> 
> Rich


Hard to say what the Feds would say if the two companies decided to merge or ATT bought Dish. Right now they probably would block it, but if it could be shown that only one can survive profitably in the future, then at that future time they might. Or, one of them bellies up leaving only one which wouldn't require any fed involvement.

I'm not enamored of any of the streaming services yet. With what I want to watch, they don't save me much money and none of them work as well as any cable/sat service I've seen.

With my cable/Dish combo I'm paying about $200 total including 100/10 internet, that includes nearly every channel cable has, including all the premiums. Were I to cut the cord I'd need the 200/20 internet because of bandwidth caps to use them the way I use cable/sat. That would cost $100/month just for the internet.

Streaming would cost about $65 for the package that would fit me with PSVue, plus premiums cost. IOW, net zero change in cost or thereabouts for service that doesn't work as well as my cable/sat setup does.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Guys, the whole run to streaming because it’s cheaper thing is going to die in four years or so. Netflix will truly be no more than another HBO. Same with amazon. Everyone will head towards the coming Disney format, and people are going to have a choice, spend 150 a month getting just want you want from 15 different sources and subscriptions, and with only one streaming only device that will likely well integrate it all (Apple TV right now is the only one I have seen and it’s ok) vs paying 125 and getting way more content from everyone. Streaming is only great right now because it’s perceived to be cheaper and a one or two item add on to your current subscriptions. That will change.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Guys ? 
Do you forgot what the topic is about ?
*Equipment replacement questions - what are they sending out?*


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> That would be a monopoly, would the feds allow that? I don't care how much the streaming providers charge, their product is better, I think, and there are no equipment charges. Right now, I'm paying $200 a month for CNN, The Weather Channel (only for hurricane coverage) and the sports, which I have to have. Been a long time since I watched a series or movie on D*...I'm pretty much done.
> 
> Rich


When the FTC is ruling on whether mergers/acquisitions are allowed from a competitive standpoint, they base it on whether it would impair competition in a market in a way that hurts consumers. Until recently most people had a choice of a local cable company and the two satellite providers - but those would depend on potential LOS issues which can be a particular problem in apartments. Going from two satellite providers to one would drop the number of competitors from 3 to 2, and in rural areas from 2 to 1. That would reduce choice and likely lead to increased prices for consumers, so they wouldn't allow it.

The last few years more options have been coming available, at least for those in urban/suburban areas where high speed internet is available so they can take advantage of the various streaming options. Some areas also have fiber run where they can get TV delivered like traditional cable. The problem is that the situation in rural areas hasn't changed, they still have just the two satellite providers and can't get cable and can't stream.

That will change in the next few years as fixed wireless broadband becomes more prevalent, so anywhere you can get cell service you'll be able to stream. Once that's the case, the FTC would probably have little objection to Dish and Directv merging (the satellite TV entities merging even if one/both are owned by larger companies at the same like Directv already is) I think they'd have to show some signs of hurting first to justify it - i.e. losing a few million customers between them - to make the argument that they have to join forces to survive. Sure, there will still very rural areas that will still be limited to satellite, but the FTC doesn't require zero people be affected or they'd never allow anything.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Guys ?
> Do you forgot what the topic is about ?
> *Equipment replacement questions - what are they sending out?*


This is probably my favorite recurring post on any message board / forum. Just once, though, I'd like to meet the guy that uses this in face to face discussions, too. "Well, that's not really the topic here, James. You do realize we started out talking about the weather, right?"


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

In meetings at work I attend someone usually says "squirrel" and we get back to topic.
Internet threads are not work meetings ... some drift should be expected.
On topic comments and questions are welcome. Complaining is off topic.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> This is probably my favorite recurring post on any message board / forum. Just once, though, I'd like to meet the guy that uses this in face to face discussions, too. "Well, that's not really the topic here, James. You do realize we started out talking about the weather, right?"


Just Pete being Pete, you get used to it.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

FWIW according to Stuart at Solid Signal the only equipment you have a chance of getting NEW rather than refurbished from Directv is HS17, HR54, C61 and C61K. Nothing else is still being manufactured - which means apparently they've quit making H25s.


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Rich said:


> I like Maine, been considering a place there. No cable companies that provide TV, phone and Internet? Must have it in Bangor, no?
> 
> Rich


In many of the areas of Maine there is plenty of communications coverage - but there are also areas without - Bangor is fine, Portland fine, etc. There are areas around the mid-coast on the shoreline that have no A&T cell but others are available. It is just there are plenty of very rural areas that today don't have the coverage most of us expect.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> FWIW according to Stuart at Solid Signal the only equipment you have a chance of getting NEW rather than refurbished from Directv is HS17, HR54, C61 and C61K. Nothing else is still being manufactured - which means apparently they've quit making H25s.


Okay this explains why I got a refurbed HR44 as a replacment. My prior HR44 died and I called. The CS person said they had no HR54 he could provide without a upgrade and extended commitment (even though I have the protection plan). After 40 minutes of discussing and arguing, I finally gave into a direct replacement (HR44) which the CS agent assured me would be a brand new HR44. Well it had a nice "Refurbished" sticker plastered right on the unit when I received it. This is the 3rd time I've been "misled" since AT&T took over. I can't understand if the CS reps just lie and just tell you anything to get rid of you or they are clueless. I honestly don't know what is going on with this company anymore.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

James Long said:


> In meetings at work I attend someone usually says "squirrel" and we get back to topic.
> Internet threads are not work meetings ... some drift should be expected.
> On topic comments and questions are welcome. Complaining is off topic.


It's just not that unusual for conversations to progress to something other than the first time it was deemed a conversation. I just don't see the problem with conversations evolving and I've always gotten a kick out of 'topic' guy. No big deal. I'm fine with it...just have always found it funny that message board rules should have a set of instructions that don't mirror conversations anywhere else in the real world.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

wrj said:


> Okay this explains why I got a refurbed HR44 as a replacment. My prior HR44 died and I called. The CS person said they had no HR54 he could provide without a upgrade and extended commitment (even though I have the protection plan). After 40 minutes of discussing and arguing, I finally gave into a direct replacement (HR44) which the CS agent assured me would be a brand new HR44. Well it had a nice "Refurbished" sticker plastered right on the unit when I received it. This is the 3rd time I've been "misled" since AT&T took over. I can't understand if the CS reps just lie and just tell you anything to get rid of you or they are clueless. I honestly don't know what is going on with this company anymore.


Repeatedly it's been said on here that there are classes of receivers (like HR20, 21, 22, 23, 24, etc) that are all looked at as DTV as the same unit - at least for purposes of providing equipment to the end user. The same thinking goes for calling everything a 'Genie' - doesn't matter if it's HR34, HR44, HR54. Recently I've gotten the idea that this isn't true with the HR54 as it relates to being a genie now. They won't just give you a 54 to replace a 34 or 44 even though I can't see anymore of a leap from a 44 to a 54 than there is from a HR23 to a HR24. In fact, there's probably a smaller jump.

Also, I've noticed that DTV calls the HR44 a 'Generation 2' genie when they address them in written materials. That also somewhat goes against their idea of having classes and all equipment of a class is equal. It's just another way to hand out more old junk while changing the rules for getting upgrades to trigger a commitment. It's a lot like how actually buying your own unit triggers a commitment, too.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

J Blow said:


> Repeatedly it's been said on here that there are classes of receivers (like HR20, 21, 22, 23, 24, etc) that are all looked at as DTV as the same unit - at least for purposes of providing equipment to the end user. The same thinking goes for calling everything a 'Genie' - doesn't matter if it's HR34, HR44, HR54. Recently I've gotten the idea that this isn't true with the HR54 as it relates to being a genie now. They won't just give you a 54 to replace a 34 or 44 even though I can't see anymore of a leap from a 44 to a 54 than there is from a HR23 to a HR24. In fact, there's probably a smaller jump.
> 
> Also, I've noticed that DTV calls the HR44 a 'Generation 2' genie when they address them in written materials. That also somewhat goes against their idea of having classes and all equipment of a class is equal. It's just another way to hand out more old junk while changing the rules for getting upgrades to trigger a commitment. It's a lot like how actually buying your own unit triggers a commitment, too.


Thanks for the reply. My issues are them telling me I would get a new (not refurbished) HR44 replacement and having the HR54 considered an "upgrade" when I have their protection plan and supposedly entitled to an upgrade periodically (every 2 years???). I thought the upgrade was without additional commitment. I guess I was wrong.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> Okay this explains why I got a refurbed HR44 as a replacment. My prior HR44 died and I called. The CS person said they had no HR54 he could provide without a upgrade and extended commitment (even though I have the protection plan). After 40 minutes of discussing and arguing, I finally gave into a direct replacement (HR44) which the CS agent assured me would be a brand new HR44. Well it had a nice "Refurbished" sticker plastered right on the unit when I received it. *This is the 3rd time I've been "misled" since AT&T took over.* I can't understand if the CS reps just lie and just tell you anything to get rid of you or they are clueless. I honestly don't know what is going on with this company anymore.


They were just as misleading before the merger. Anything to pacify the customer.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> Repeatedly it's been said on here that there are classes of receivers (like HR20, 21, 22, 23, 24, etc) that are all looked at as DTV as the same unit - at least for purposes of providing equipment to the end user. The same thinking goes for calling everything a 'Genie' - doesn't matter if it's HR34, HR44, HR54. Recently I've gotten the idea that this isn't true with the HR54 as it relates to being a genie now. They won't just give you a 54 to replace a 34 or 44 even though I can't see anymore of a leap from a 44 to a 54 than there is from a HR23 to a HR24. In fact, there's probably a smaller jump.
> 
> Also, I've noticed that DTV calls the *HR44 a 'Generation 2'* genie when they address them in written materials. That also somewhat goes against their idea of having classes and all equipment of a class is equal. It's just another way to hand out more old junk while changing the rules for getting upgrades to trigger a commitment. It's a lot like how actually buying your own unit triggers a commitment, too.


Might that be the H44-700? Note the lack of the R in HR. Yet another device I don't see any reason to possess.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> Thanks for the reply. My issues are them telling me I would get a new (not refurbished) HR44 replacement and having the HR54 considered an "upgrade" when I have their protection plan and supposedly entitled to an upgrade periodically (every 2 years???). I thought the upgrade was without additional commitment. I guess I was wrong.


Yup, you're wrong. They'll take every penny they can. I don't see the Genies as an "upgrade".

Rich


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> Might that be the H44-700? Note the lack of the R in HR. Yet another device I don't see any reason to possess.
> 
> Rich


It's an HR44-700 - says "Genie Gen 2" on the equipment listing on the Dave page.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> They were just as misleading before the merger. Anything to pacify the customer.
> 
> Rich


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- Hanlon's Razor.

I don't think the CSRs lie, I think they are poorly trained and probably aren't paid all that well either so the smart ones eventually find better jobs.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

J Blow said:


> It's an HR44-700 - says "Genie Gen 2" on the equipment listing on the Dave page.


Don't understand that. Why a Genie 2? The H44-700 doesn't have an HDD and I thought that might be reason enough to call it a "2".

Rich


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

The H44 was originally called the Genie Lite. I could see the HR54 being called a Genie Gen 2 as it has additional capabilities (4K, Reverse band) but the 44 doesn't do anything the 34 can.


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## J Blow (Nov 2, 2008)

longrider said:


> The H44 was originally called the Genie Lite. I could see the HR54 being called a Genie Gen 2 as it has additional capabilities (4K, Reverse band) but the 44 doesn't do anything the 34 can.


I think I figured this out. It's the generation 2 and a step up if you have an HR34 and would like to replace it. It's a same class (generation free) genie if you have a newer genie and it needs to be replaced.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> Don't understand that. Why a Genie 2? The H44-700 doesn't have an HDD and I thought that might be reason enough to call it a "2".
> 
> Rich


Genie was the first server system. Genie lite was the same without the hard drive built in. A genie 2 is an entirely new platform, even physically designed totally different without video out and more tuners... it's significantly different, so it gets the 2. The difference of the other genies isn't that great in terms of capabilities. They used the terms gen 1 and gen2 and gen3 for the first genies. Think Of it almost like 1.1 and 1.2 and 1.3. Now we have 2.0


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have to think the difference between Genie Gen 2 and Genie 2 will be lost on most people. Most especially Directv's easily-confused CSRs. They would have been better off calling them Gen A, Gen B, Gen C, or 1.1, 1.2, 1.3.


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## JimAtTheRez (May 9, 2008)

carl6 said:


> It is easy to set up an antenna to get off-air stations on your TV. What I miss is the convenience of having them integrated into the guide, and more important, ability to record them (on the same DVR as everything else). Switching inputs to the TV tuner, and having to watch live, makes OTA "inconvenient" at best. Certainly available if sat goes out for any length of time (days as opposed to minutes).





slice1900 said:


> I have to think the difference between Genie Gen 2 and Genie 2 will be lost on most people. Most especially Directv's easily-confused CSRs. They would have been better off calling them Gen A, Gen B, Gen C, or 1.1, 1.2, 1.3.


Yes, the Genie 2 nomenclature was lost on me and my CSR. He told me he was upgrading me to a Genie 2 with 7 tuners. What's not to like? So when installation happened I rec'd my Genie 2....the HS17 server. I lost my Genie and my other 5 HD DVR's. Many problems but no AM-21 capability, all of my recording space, up to 600 series links, and the reduction of available tuners from 15 down to 7. I am very unhappy, and unfortunately for this 14+ yr DTV person, DTV says I am stuck. You can not downgrade. Very frustrating. Wish we could still contact Ellen Filinpiak or whatever her name was. For those with a Dish setup, can you give me some comparisons. Either Comcast or Dish for me. Searching the options now.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

When the installer showed up and said he was going to have to take all your DVRs you could have refused the HS17 and sent him packing. Once you do it it sounds like it is irreversible - Directv seems to want to make a clean break with the past.

We can only hope they allow more than one HS17 on an account eventually when there is sufficient production volume. Currently they aren't even allowing it for new installs, it is upgrade only because of limited supply.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

we should wait for HS27, HS37 to see what the models will bring to a table of variety of options ...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The only improvements I'd see a newer version of the HS17 likely to have are more simultaneous 4K streams and a bigger hard drive. If they really are planning to bond three transponders together for 4K channels instead of two as claimed, there will never be one that supports more than seven tuners.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Three transponder bonding is ridiculous. I am not saying it will never be done, but it is not needed for 4K. It would only be needed if the amount of data dedicated to a single channel was greater than the capacity of two transponders. Encoding is getting better ... allowing more detail in less bandwidth. Bonded transponders allowing three feeds to span two transponders allows DIRECTV to fill their transponders without packing HD feeds around 4K feeds. That is a good thing. But three transponder bonding? I do not see where that would be needed for consumer TV. Perhaps 8K or better feeds to movie theaters but not for home or routine business use.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would say it would be more practical use wide-band tpns (125, 250 or 500 MHz) and new tuners what already exist in professional/communication equipment for 4k/8k or any other video channels


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> Three transponder bonding is ridiculous. I am not saying it will never be done, but it is not needed for 4K. It would only be needed if the amount of data dedicated to a single channel was greater than the capacity of two transponders. Encoding is getting better ... allowing more detail in less bandwidth. Bonded transponders allowing three feeds to span two transponders allows DIRECTV to fill their transponders without packing HD feeds around 4K feeds. That is a good thing. But three transponder bonding? I do not see where that would be needed for consumer TV. Perhaps 8K or better feeds to movie theaters but not for home or routine business use.


I agree three transponder bonding is ridiculous, and Directv had said it would be using two transponders a few years ago. However, several people who claim to know say they were told Directv's solution for 4K on reverse band will use three. Until they start lighting it up in a year we know for certain.

I guess another clue that the HS17's follow-ons will support only 7 tuners is the '7' in their names - assuming that's what the '7' in the HS17's name refers to. If you believe the '4' in the HR34/HR44/HR54 refers to its support of 4 TVs (the server and three clients) I guess you could argue the HS27/HS37 could still support only 7 clients while supporting more tuners - but that will only be possible if they bond two transponders for 4K rather than three.

Or make a new LNB that supports more SWM channels by reducing the guard band further and/or using frequencies below 950 MHz that don't conflict with DECA. I figure with a 4 MHz guard band and using frequencies from 40 MHz - 2120 MHz they could manage 45 SWM channels which would get you to 15 tuners. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that though


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

P Smith said:


> I would say it would be more practical use wide-band tpns (125, 250 or 500 MHz) and new tuners what already exist in professional/communication equipment for 4k/8k or any other video channels


They can't use wider transponders for three reasons. One, if you look at the tuners companies are using in their STBs, they are all maxed out at about 45 Ms/s, i.e. 45 MHz exclusive of roll off. Sure professional equipment supports higher, but also costs WAY more since they are not made for the CE market. Two, Directv is using 51.03 MHz channel width for SWM, so they can't go wider unless the firmware in the 3DR/5DR LNB and DSWM30 can be updated to support variable width SWM channels. The Maxlinear chips those use are apparently capable of it, so it is theoretically possible but I doubt they could deliver firmware updates to change such basic behavior. Third, they'd need to have satellites with wide band CONUS transponders in orbit, which they don't. That's not a quick fix!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Three transponder bonding is ridiculous. I am not saying it will never be done, but it is not needed for 4K. It would only be needed if the amount of data dedicated to a single channel was greater than the capacity of two transponders. Encoding is getting better ... allowing more detail in less bandwidth. Bonded transponders allowing three feeds to span two transponders allows DIRECTV to fill their transponders without packing HD feeds around 4K feeds. That is a good thing. But three transponder bonding? I do not see where that would be needed for consumer TV. Perhaps 8K or better feeds to movie theaters but not for home or routine business use.


They have never said anything about 3 transponders being bonded together.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> I agree three transponder bonding is ridiculous, and Directv had said it would be using two transponders a few years ago. However, several people who claim to know say they were told Directv's solution for 4K on reverse band will use three. Until they start lighting it up in a year we know for certain.
> 
> I guess another clue that the HS17's follow-ons will support only 7 tuners is the '7' in their names - assuming that's what the '7' in the HS17's name refers to. If you believe the '4' in the HR34/HR44/HR54 refers to its support of 4 TVs (the server and three clients) I guess you could argue the HS27/HS37 could still support only 7 clients while supporting more tuners - but that will only be possible if they bond two transponders for 4K rather than three.
> 
> Or make a new LNB that supports more SWM channels by reducing the guard band further and/or using frequencies below 950 MHz that don't conflict with DECA. I figure with a 4 MHz guard band and using frequencies from 40 MHz - 2120 MHz they could manage 45 SWM channels which would get you to 15 tuners. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that though


Your math is off since they have 4 unused tuners in the hs17 today.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> They have never said anything about 3 transponders being bonded together.


Yes they have, at least they have on the other site. Someone (I think it might have been HoTat2 but I'm not positive) even pointed out that three 40 Mbps transponders equals 120 Mbps, which comes out to the four 30 Mbps 4K channels people were claiming those three transponders support.


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## Mickstix (Feb 13, 2008)

So, I have an HR22-100 that sometimes freezes when I FFW a recorded program and the guide/remote has gotten pretty slow over the years.. If I call in to get a replacement, will they give me something worth replacing or will I basically be stuck with the same thing (ie: slow/software glitches) I have now? I don't have single wire, just the old 2 wires to the 2 tuner DVR. 

Also, are there any tips to achieving a replacement DVR? Do I have to tell them mine is "broke" or can I just say I want something new(er)?? Do fee's differ depending on the case? (I also don't have any protection plans) 

Thanks for the help!


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

Rich said:


> I have no doubt the NFL and MLB will see the same future and...do something streaming-wise. Companies that are successful just keep on rolling...then reality sets in and they end up disappearing. Do folks remember Union Carbide, one of the largest conglomerates in the world at one time (might have been the largest) and now gone? I do, I watched it expire. Tremendously successful, we thought it would never end...then one dumb decision after another and just gone...
> Rich


MLB knows the future. Just as Kodak did in the 80s when it had its R&D set up the first digital camera. But Kodak knew that digital would never be as profitable as selling film. So Kodak put off the "future" as long as possible.

Same for MLB. MLB knows that, in any given city, 20% of the PayTv baseball fans receive a huge subsidy from the 80% of PayTv non-baseball fans. Those fans paying as much as 5 dollars a month for RSNs they never watch.

So MLB puts off the "future" as long as possible. Because it knows that streaming revenue will not approach the gravy train that RSNs have become


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

What is the current best Genie to get? We just have one DVR an HR20-700! 

thx

bob


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

steelgtr said:


> What is the current best Genie to get? We just have one DVR an HR20-700!
> 
> thx
> 
> bob


If you have a 4K Ultra HDTV or are planning on getting one you'll need either a HR54 Genie or a HS17 Genie 2. If you don't have a 4K Ultra HDTV and don't plan on getting one the HR44 Genie will suffice.


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> If you have a 4K Ultra HDTV or are planning on getting one you'll need either a HR54 Genie or a HS17 Genie 2. If you don't have a 4K Ultra HDTV and don't plan on getting one the HR44 Genie will suffice.


Plan on getting 4K OLED soon  Diff between the Genie 2 and the 54?

thx

bob


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

steelgtr said:


> Plan on getting 4K OLED soon  Diff between the Genie 2 and the 54?
> 
> thx
> 
> bob


HR54 is a DVR as you are familiar with, it has 5 tuners and can feed a (non 4K) TV directly. The 4K TV will require a C61K client. Any other non 4K TVs can use either a Genie client or another receiver/DVR. Using clients the HR54 can feed 3 streams at a time (1 4K) You can have multiple 4K clients but only one can watch a 4K program at a time. The HS17 (genie2) is a server only and can not feed a TV directly. It has 7 tuners and can support up to 7 clients at a time, 2 of which can be 4K. The HS17 can not have any other DVRs/receivers on the same account so clients are the only option.

Before anybody corrects me, I know the HR54 has 7 tuners and the HS17 has 11 functional/15 total tuners but the additional tuners are for transponder bonding when 4K goes to reverse band and the last 4 on the HS17 have an unknown purpose at this time.


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

longrider said:


> HR54 is a DVR as you are familiar with, it has 5 tuners and can feed a (non 4K) TV directly. The 4K TV will require a C61K client. Any other non 4K TVs can use either a Genie client or another receiver/DVR. Using clients the HR54 can feed 3 streams at a time (1 4K) You can have multiple 4K clients but only one can watch a 4K program at a time. The HS17 (genie2) is a server only and can not feed a TV directly. It has 7 tuners and can support up to 7 clients at a time, 2 of which can be 4K. The HS17 can not have any other DVRs/receivers on the same account so clients are the only option.
> 
> Before anybody corrects me, I know the HR54 has 7 tuners and the HS17 has 11 functional/15 total tuners but the additional tuners are for transponder bonding when 4K goes to reverse band and the last 4 on the HS17 have an unknown purpose at this time.


Since we only have 1 TV, what do you suggest? Any difference in PQ?

thx

bob


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I’d get they hs17. Why get an older generation when there is no need to. You gained double the r cording space, and more hard drives, and newer generation of equipment. It’s not like you upgrade often either it seems.. so get the newest now.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

There is no difference in picture quality. Since you only have 1 TV and are planning on 4K that definitely makes the HS17 the better deal. The HR54 would require a client for 4K so you would end up paying 2 $7 location fees and as the HS17 is only a server there is no location fee for it.


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

I'm kind a old school and like hard wire connections. With the hs 17, you are at the mercy of wireless only getting to the tv? No bandwith issues for 4K?

thx

bob


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

steelgtr said:


> I'm kind a old school and like hard wire connections. With the hs 17, you are at the mercy of wireless only getting to the tv? No bandwith issues for 4K?
> 
> thx
> 
> bob


The HS17 Genie 2 supports wired, wireless, 4K and RVU clients.


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> The HS17 Genie 2 supports wired, wireless, 4K and RVU clients.


Thanks, How does the HS17 connect to the C61 wired?

bob


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Over the RG6 -Data network The c61K connects to the TV with a HDMI Connection - the HS-17 has none


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I will just add the hs17 actually has a giga Ethernet port, even though it’s doubtful it’ll ever need anything over 100... but all 4K comes via satellite, so there is never any bandwidth crunch for 4K.


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## steelgtr (Feb 4, 2007)

P Smith said:


> see "HS17-100 thread", read its manual URL is there


I'd like to see the manual but was hoping it would be a sticky on page 1 but nope.

bob


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

steelgtr said:


> I'd like to see the manual but was hoping it would be a sticky on page 1 but nope.
> 
> bob


You can download the HS17 Genie 2 Product Manual on the DIRECTV website.


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## gphvid (Jun 19, 2007)

An equipment upgrade question.

When I talked to some one in retention yesterday, the CSR did say that I was eligible for an upgrade free (I have the protection plan). Currently, my system has a Genie 2 (HR44-200), a HR21-100 refurbished and a HR21-700 refurbished. I do run a wireless whole home setup and have SWM wired. I would like to simply replace one of the older HR21's for the upgrade receiver, or rather, DVR. Both the HR21's work but are slow. Can I swap both or just one of them? And in doing so, do I need a technician to come out to do it? I told the rep that I would get back to them once I reassess the system. I do have a TCL 4K Roku TV I bought last year around this time.

Thoughts?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

gphvid said:


> An equipment upgrade question.
> 
> When I talked to some one in retention yesterday, the CSR did say that I was eligible for an upgrade free (I have the protection plan). Currently, my system has a Genie 2 (HR44-200), a HR21-100 refurbished and a HR21-700 refurbished. I do run a wireless whole home setup and have SWM wired. I would like to simply replace one of the older HR21's for the upgrade receiver, or rather, DVR. Both the HR21's work but are slow. Can I swap both or just one of them? And in doing so, do I need a technician to come out to do it? I told the rep that I would get back to them once I reassess the system. I do have a TCL 4K Roku TV I bought last year around this time.
> 
> Thoughts?


Futureproof your system and upgrade your HR44-200 with either a HR54 Genie or a HS17 Genie 2. Both will give you access to 4K service. If you go with the HR54 Genie you can continue using DVRs with your setup. If you go with a HS17 Genie 2 you'll only be able to use clients with your setup. When you're ready to upgrade to 4K service you'll need either a C61K-700 client or a 4K Ultra HDTV that is RVU for viewing 4K channels and your LNB will need to be upgraded to a Reverse Band LNB.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

If you deactivated a THR-22 and mailed in the card, will they reactivate and mail a new card?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

GordonGekko said:


> If you deactivated a THR-22 and mailed in the card, will they reactivate and mail a new card?


I'm surprised - someone really want to use the old slow DVR today? Only because it's running tivo FW ?


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

P Smith said:


> I'm surprised - someone really want to use the old slow DVR today? Only because it's running tivo FW ?


Someone just wants to use 2 tuner dvr and I don't feel like paying $199 or trying to wrangle one for free and I have this sitting in a box, never used. It actually is a worse TIVO like experience than the R10 otherwise I would be using it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

GordonGekko said:


> If you deactivated a THR-22 and mailed in the card, will they reactivate and mail a new card?


Was it on your account before? I imagine they would, only way to know for sure is call in. If you can get to someone in retention I'd do that, they know more about this stuff usually


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

inkahauts said:


> Was it on your account before? I imagine they would, only way to know for sure is call in. If you can get to someone in retention I'd do that, they know more about this stuff usually


Yeah, not sure the person wants to bother with this inferior version of Tivo, going to try for a free one.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> If you deactivated a THR-22 and mailed in the card, will they reactivate and mail a new card?


Yes as long as your account has NOT been upgraded to a HS-17 -You will have to pay $20 for a NEW card or if you whine enough they may wave it or discount something else - Happy Thanksgiving


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