# 721 WOULD YOU BUY IT AGAIN.



## treader19 (Apr 7, 2003)

For all the 721 owners, if you had to do it again, would you? With the problems that i am seeing, i don't know if i should put down 350+ for this unit, or if i should just go with a 508. I love the idea of dual tuners, but just am unsure with the problems people are having (at least that i am seeing from the forum).


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

As of this moment I would in a heartbeat.

However when the 522 comes out I would have to really think about it. BTW there is no official release date for the 522.


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## nuts4scuba (Jan 11, 2003)

I would have to agree with Scott. If the 522 was out I would have to look at it. I have liked my 721 alot and have not had the problems that other people have. I know of only a couple of missed timers that I have had and that happened the first week I got it back in early Sept. Even with alot of shows I liked being canceled I still record 20 - 30 shows a week.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Yes. The primary reason I got it was for the dual tuners.

Dennis


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

I love mine, I wouldn't think twice about buying another one.


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

If I was thinking about buying one today, I might be tempted to wait for networking (i.e. program sharing), but besides that I love it.


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

No. I'd probably have just gone with a DirecTV Tivo unit since I was on DirecTV originally, and the problems I've gone through with the 721 aren't worth it.

Granted, I'm probably not one who would ever go back to a standard unit since I and my wife enjoy being able to pause and/or record without using a VCR. Yet the reliability and functionality isn't worth it. The dual tuners is nice. But I could have gotten something similar through DirecTV.

There's always the chance that I may change my mind in the future. But that all depends on Dish fixing the problems that are already out there (first, BEFORE any enhancements come out), and then making the PVR unit an even more viable option over something similar with Tivo (regardless of patent issues). The whole thing about name based recording is becoming a joke if it's about patents. Like all software, there is always more then one way to get the same result for a problem. Been there, done that. It can be done, end of story...


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## treiher (Oct 24, 2002)

Yep, I would. I have had a few problems with mine, but not nearly as many as others here have. Once I got over the surprise and disappointment that it does not have all the features that my 501 had, I've been pretty happy. The dual tuners allowing you to record and watch another program is the big reason. I hesitated to post my positive response to this, because I don't want Echo* to think they're doing o.k. with it. I would do it again, but they need to fix the bugs and add the features their other units have, and they need to do it sooner rather than later!


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## W1CPO (Aug 17, 2002)

Absolutely! Couldn't live without the dual tuners.


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

Without hesitation.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Nope, probably not, but may have to think about it. If I could find a way to have just as large of a hard drive in another PVR unit and it would not have to be a dual tuner because most of my timers do not fire 2 at the same time.

Perhaps a 522, yes, or if the 721 had two outputs to two tv's.


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## hojni (Feb 6, 2003)

I would buy the 721 again in a heartbeat. I use both tuners concurrently all the time and have never had any problems with it. We never watch live TV. I just wish the harddrive was even bigger.

Because I have it paired with a 501 and both units distributed throughout the house, I have no interest in the 522. I can record three shows and watch two seperate PVR recordings on any TV at the same time. If anything, I might replace the 501 with a 721 or something with an even larger harddrive.


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## hojni (Feb 6, 2003)

One other thing. I have noticed that many 721 problems seem to occur in legacy installations; not those using the newer DishPro setup. I upgraded from a legacy LNBF and switch to a DishPro Twin LNBF and DP34 switch when I installed the 721.


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## rickwyo (Jul 12, 2002)

Yes, I would buy the 721 again.

I think it has too many bugs, but given the overall choices available to me it is the best option for my situation.


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

---the biggest plus about the 721 is the
dual tuner capability---i watch live
tv and record another program all the
time...PIP is great, too!

---the biggest minus has been the hard 
drive crashes with my first two units---
(however, after having my system 
grounded i have had noooo problems 
with my third 721)...

---one little nagging concern i have is 
the possibility that dish is going to be
gobbled up and my 721 will become
defunct and unsupported--- before it 
is technologically obsolete...


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

Probably not just because Dish still doesn't have YES. I would go to DirecTv, I itching to go any time now. I still hate the fact that the tivo has no UHF remote capabilties, right now my 721 is behind a cabinet door.
If Dish had YES network, then yes I would buy the 721 again, large HD and dual tuners are great, could never go back to 'regular' TV


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## rcwilcox (Jan 20, 2003)

Yes I would. Having said that I am not sure I would if I couldn't get the kind of deal I got ($399) shipped. Had a bad tuner but the replacement has been fine and really fits my circumstances well. One TV no PIP on the TV so PIP is nice. Used to have two receivers so the saving of the extra receiver charge is nice. I love to watch live while I record and very seldom do I have the frustration of timer conflicts that I used to have thanks to the dual tuners.


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## l.i.t.e. (Mar 18, 2003)

NEVER !!!

My old DP was soooo much better than this hunk of junk, i will never by another dish product again. If Direct TV had the one channel i actually watch available i would switch today


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well I have had all sorts of troubles. I would buy a 522 for this reason. The 721 has the dual tuner which I wanted. But it has lots of fluff, like planned internet access. I think fluff increases the chances of bugs and troubles.

Just give me a rock solid PVR without the unnecessary bells and whistles and I will be a very happy camper. I asked my wife this question she still prefers the 721 even with her complaining.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I would. It has been a very good machine for me, especially compared to the DP.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Yes, although I am getting cranky about the slow software updates (weather, internet access... assuming they allow BYOInternet Access).

I have a legacy setup and it has worked well with only about a half dozen reboots over the last six months and only one blown timer (and I have 40 timers a week).

Dual Tuners are a must. That being said, as soon as the 921 comes in ... I'm dumping it so I can view and record HD programming on my HD programming starved HD monitor. I've had the thing 5 months and still have not watched an HD program on it (excluding my Dragons Lair 3D game on the XBox)


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Without hesitation, yes. We have had no problems at all. Getting some added features will make it even better.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

Yes ... and no. If I were going to stick w/ Dish, yes, I would, definitely. The two tuners is a must and I personally have not had issues w/ missing timers. But at this point I would probably rethink my decision to go w/ Dish and go w/ Direct TV (and Tivo).


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## MAllen (Dec 3, 2002)

Definitely, Thinking about 2nd one for BR. I keep hoping for the 522, BUT..............


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## thomasmaly (Jul 7, 2002)

Yes I love my 721, I have been very fortunate as far as not having major
problems. Which brings me to the question of buying the extended warranty, I will have had the 721 since July of 2002. Is it a wise investment?


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## rcwilcox (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by thomasmaly _
> *Yes I love my 721, I have been very fortunate as far as not having major
> problems. Which brings me to the question of buying the extended warranty, I will have had the 721 since July of 2002. Is it a wise investment? *


Yup for $2 a month it is a good idea. I got my 721 in March so next year I am signing up. Remember the computer axiom there are two kinds of harddrives.....those that have failed and those that are going to fail. Can't just swap a HD here like we used to do with the DP's.


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## mjschuyler (Nov 2, 2002)

Yes, I have had almost everyone of the E* receivers, 2000, 3000, JVC DVHS/5000, Dishplayers,501,508 and 721. The 721 is the best. 

Loved my Dishplayers but the IF remote was a pain. I have a second TV in my office and I had to use if remote extenders that are so so.

I now have the 721 with two UHF remotes that work great and I still record DVHS tapes in the JVC DVJS/5000 that are perfect copies. I use the PIP on the TV and PIP in the 721 and I can watch three hockey games at a time!

I also think that E* will update the 721 over time to better and better functions especially if they liston to this board.

Murray


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

No question about it.


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## Hopper27 (Feb 28, 2003)

Totaly, it is a very nice box...

It has two main flaws...

1. It is still a tad buggy
2. It doesn't have as much processing power or memory as it should have

Neither detracts from the overall desirabilty of the unit.

The $520 was a lot to spend, but oh well, it is a nice box!!!

Jason


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I don't regreat buying the 721. But to be honest, if it wasn't for me having the Dish 5000 to timeshift HD, I might be a D* customer. The latest series of Tivo's are very compelling.


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## rickz (Mar 18, 2003)

I have been very pleased with the PVR 721, and have no reservations about my decision. It's fast, flexible, and mostly trouble-free. Compared to our previous PVR, a DishPlayer 7200, the 721 is a far superior unit.

Notes:


Hookup to my legacy Dish 500 and SW44 was straightforward. I ran 100' of new coax through the attic and down the corner of the living room walls within some conduit, and inserted surge protection. Activation and download proceeded without any trouble.

The 721 has been fast and user friendly. My family enjoys the flexibility of the two tuners for simultaneous recording and viewing. My wife and older kids (11 and 10) can navigate all of the PVR features and functions with ease.

The 90-hour capacity allows us to keep a library of shows on call at any time for my younger children (4, 3, and 2).

Bugs have been minor and infrequent. Notably, the unit has spontaneously rebooted twice in the three weeks since activation, and twice has spontaneously changed to TBS with no timer programmed for it - weird.

The 721 was expensive at $520, but the $300 I got on eBay for my old DishPlayer offset the cost nicely.  

Those who carp incessantly about bugs need to remember the nature of PVR's. They are simply purpose-built computers with operating systems and the same potential for human error in their implementation. They are far more complex than VCR's and other similar fixed-configuration home theater devices. We're somewhat avant-garde in our adoption of this relatively new technology, and should expect some annoyances while the systems are refined.

My family endured the DishPlayer debacle, and still enjoyed the new dimension it provided to our TV viewing. My family's experience with the 721 has been excellent. Seven thumbs up!

Rick -Z-


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## johnsbin (Nov 14, 2002)

Yes - absolutely. For me, it's a must have. My wife nearly had my head for spending $525.00 but after she used it for one day she wouldn't give me back the remote. The remote works great from upstairs where I beam the signal to another tv. I had some reception problems at first but I swapped the legacy lnbf with a dishpro unit from ebay and life is good.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rickz _
> * Those who carp incessantly about bugs need to remember the nature of PVR's. They are simply purpose-built computers with operating systems and the same potential for human error in their implementation. They are far more complex than VCR's and other similar fixed-configuration home theater devices. We're somewhat avant-garde in our adoption of this relatively new technology, and should expect some annoyances while the systems are refined. *


So then why is it Tivo or Replay or UTV users DON'T go through all these bugs then??? :lol: :lol:


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dishrich _
> *
> 
> So then why is it us Tivo users DON'T go through all these bugs then??? :lol: :lol:   *


Some people need to take off their rose colored glasses.

Head on over to AVSforums TivoCommunitty and you will see probably just as many problems with the Tivos as Dish has with their PVR's.

Overall it's not a question of is Tivo better then Dish, the question if you had to do it all over again would you buy another 721. 

Back on topic please.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Maybe there are more complaints on the Dish PVR's because there are more people that have the Dish PVR's. 

Also I think that was a goal for Dish to make the PVR's user friendly.


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## platinum (Oct 28, 2002)

E*s software is full of bugs


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I had the Tivo when if first came out. I won it even. I can assure you Tivo Year 1 was a lot worse than the 721 has been.
Still, name based timers....


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by platinum _
> *E*s software is full of bugs *


Been using my 721 for 9 months now. Had just a couple of problems when it first came out. Rock solid since the last upgrade in December.

My experience does not agree that "E*s software is full of bugs ". Sorry.

And remember, dishplayers were mainly Microsoft software (actually webTV, that Microsoft foolishly bought), not Echostar.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Well at least its better than the dishplayer, lol.


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## treader19 (Apr 7, 2003)

To Everyone:
Thanks for the big response to the thread. I learned a lot. I still am unsure of where to go, but i think i am leaning more towards the 721 now. i mean everyone has some problems, but with the upcoming firmware now L10, and L11 which i can see they are working on. Thanks.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Some people need to take off their rose colored glasses.*


I agree, so when are you taking YOURS off?  

I just think it is SO comical that you E* pom-pom waivers just keep making excuse after excuse after excuse, etc. for E* NEVER having their products finished BEFORE they release them to the public, & find it completely acceptable to wait through update after update after update, 'til E* maybe gets it right - but if that's what blows your skirt up, whatever...   



> *Head on over to AVSforums TivoCommunitty and you will see probably just as many problems with the Tivos as Dish has with their PVR's.*


I have, & they, in fact do NOT seem to have all these software bugs anywhere NEAR E*'s. 
BUT, on the other hand, since YOU are over at Claude's dealer board, you KNOW all the talk we discuss regarding E*'s (lousy) quality of their software AND hardware that we endure as dealers on a daily basis, so DON'T even go there!!!



> *Overall it's not a question of is Tivo better then Dish, *


Well, I didn't mean necessarily that Tivo was better than Dish. I only raised the question because of rickz's post about people complaining about all of E*'s PVR bugs & that we should accept this as the norm. Sorry, but that is pure BS, end of story, which is why I brought up the point of Tivo owners NOT having to go through all these girations like you E* owners. If it'll make you feel better, then I'll just replace Tivo in my original post with Replay, since they DON'T seem to have all the bugs of E*, EITHER.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Big Bob _
> *My experience does not agree that "E*s software is full of bugs ". Sorry. *


And how many E* receivers HAVE you dealt with on a daily basis - like you said, it is only YOUR experience...  

*



And remember, dishplayers were mainly Microsoft software (actually webTV, that Microsoft foolishly bought), not Echostar.

Click to expand...

*And YOU remember, the D* Ultimate TV PVR's were mainly MS software too & do/did NOT have anywhere NEAR the same problems as the dishplayers... :hi: :hi: :hi:

OK, everyone can put their rose colored glasses back on now... :lol: :lol:


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## rickz (Mar 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dishrich _
> *
> I only raised the question because of rickz's post about people complaining about all of E*'s PVR bugs & that we should accept this as the norm. Sorry, but that is pure BS, end of story, which is why I brought the point of Tivo owners NOT having to go through all these girations like you E* owners.*




End of story? Not hardly.

Evangelical antagonists like you roam the boards everywhere. You praise your own chosen hardware/software with a blind eye toward its faults until they become too noticable or embarrassing to ignore. Remember: you own **** doesn't stink until you unclog your nose. Saeed al-Sahaf learned this lesson the hard way.

I have friends with TiVo, and we don't spend valuble time verbally bashing each other. Shut up and go enjoy your TV.

Rick -Z-


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

Whoa! I think some of this has definitely gone to the other side of the tracks.

I posted my comments about most likely not buying the 721 again had I had the chance. I started with a big dish, then migrated over to DirecTV when an offer came for free equipment for big dish owners. It was a good deal, and I did it because of how long it would take my dish to position to a different satellite based on what I wanted to watch.

It was only last year that, after seeing my neighbor with his DirecTV Tivo unit that I looked into some sort of PVR equipment or service (like Tivo). When comparing both DirecTV and DishNetwork, it seemed Dish had a better upgrade path for current subscribers. DirecTV pretty much had the idea of "you're a current customer, so deal with the huge expense of getting new equipment and installation". That turned me off. Actually, it was probably one of the big factors in my decision.

I had looked at some sort of HDTV receiver, but with recording shows here and there when away from home I needed something more along the lines of a PVR. When I researched Tivo and PVR units (with Tivo still having a fee for service at the time), I came upon the 721 unit. When I checked the DishNetwork site, they were NOT advertising the unit there. Yet it was being sold by other retailers. I came this/close to buying a Hughes HDTV receiver instead. But I kept coming back to PVR, or wanting that more then seeing my HDTV be used for things other then DVD movies.

I ultimately set myself on the 721, signed up, got the equipment, got the installation, and the rest is history.

Don't get me wrong though. I may have gripes about the 721 and the bugs I've gone through (and still go through). I'm a believer that when a product comes to market that bugs should be a minimum. That, and the russian roulette you get when trying to talk to advanced tech support. Service has been other then quality. In all honesty, if tech support were open about the problems, not condescending to their customers and the like, I might actually forgive the quirks. Sorry, unlike some, I don't believe in the "this is new technology". It's obviously not new to Dish or Tivo. They each have had their technology in use for a few years now. My neighbor has had no problems with his Tivo except for the long boot time after power goes out.

There are a lot of nice things, via the post on the L1.10 software, coming out to enhance and resolve problems. Given their track record of fixing things in previous releases, I'm not very optimistic that this "coming" release will do the same. That and having to call advanced tech support more then once for the same problem because one or more of them "swear" there is no problem, and that no one has "ever" reported such a problem.

That's my reason for being hesitant in saying I'd purchase a 721 again. I might have instead bit the budget and gotten a Tivo unit instead. I feel I've made a substantial investment in the 721 as it is. I'm a one unit household. I have one TV, one receiver, etc. I'm a casual user, recording a variety of standard shows throughout the week because my wife and I prefer to, most of the time, watch the shows after they've aired (even the same day) to eliminate the commercials.

Beyond that, I don't believe we need to go calling people "Evangelical antagonists" or "pom-pom waivers". Whether I'm negative about the 721 or otherwise, at least I concentrate that where it's deserved, not against others that post here. I'm hoping we can all remember that. I come here for information, to vent, to see what's new, to see what others may be having for success or failures. But I come here with respect for people too.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2003)

I would have to say "YES". This was a purchase I thought about for a long time. I was very scared. I also wondered if it was worth the extra money over the 508. 

Well I do have the Dish Pro system installed and I have had very little problems. I had the first week stuff but after the first week I have only had one other problem (Think it is a bug) Where do you send bugs? I like to watch PPV movies and when I watch just the first 5 minutes of the PPV and decide not to buy it, it will reboot the machine! Sucks. Takes 5 minutes to be able to start watching TV again.

But I have had this thing and feel I am getting my money out of it. I use the two tunners maybe 4-6 hours a day. I will watch PVR and record two shows more than I ever dreamed I would. Then it is a life saver with the family. I can record my shows and let the kids watch what ever then want. When the kids go to bed I can watch what I want. I could not live with out it.

The price was not too bad either. I got the 721, a 508 (for the live in mother in law), a DP34 switch and installation for $580 total, that included shipping also. thesatelliteguy.com really hooked me up.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You may want to wait until the 522 comes out, it may be cheaper and have two tv outs and maybe even some improvements which is unknown yet.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I wonder if this 522 model will have more than rf out to the two tvs? It would be nice to have 2 s-video outs to the two different tvs as well as rca jacks, and do I dare say 2 Component outs?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Even if it did i would be harder to run those S-Video wires wouldnt it or could you just get those wires to run to the other rooms? That would be a bit pricey wouldnt it or be harder to find? One could use other type of wire for that I would imagine.


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## shadowman11 (Apr 11, 2003)

I've been with dish for about 3yrs now, and the 721 is my 3rd reciever. I started with a 4900, then a 501. I really wanted the dual tuners with the extra storage space, what I got was a faster, cleaner looking screens, and yes, a few bugs that are being worked on. I suffered through many more with the 501.

I look at it this way. It's much easier, and cheaper to wait on a software fix versus a hardware fix and I believe the hardware is solid.


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