# Discussion of Bug: 49% Issue?



## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

I finally had an OTA installed today (Winegard GS-2200) for my 811. When the installer was here, he managed to lock in my (3) local digital signals fine. Just a little earlier when I tried to go to my local ABC affiliate, I got the 49% signal reading. I've seen this posted many times before, but never really paid any attention to it as at that time, I didn't have an OTA for my locals. Would someone mind telling me what this is and why it's occuring?

Ken


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Is your ABC affiliate broadcasting in UHF or VHF for OTA HD? In Dallas the ABC station broadcasts in VHF where as everybody else uses UHF. ABC is a pain in the butt to get it, especially if there is any distance between you and the tower. You might want to very slightly move your antenna to see if you can raise the signal strength without impacting the other station too much. Also, what software level are you on with your 811? I ended up putting a 10 db booster on the antenna but then slightly attenuated the signal using a 3' length of cable and a standard splitter to balance the increase boost for the ABC station but minimized the "over" boost for rest of the channels (very technical talk here!) But first check to see what your ABC affiliate is either UHF or VHF.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

bavaria72 said:


> Is your ABC affiliate broadcasting in UHF or VHF for OTA HD? In Dallas the ABC station broadcasts in VHF where as everybody else uses UHF. ABC is a pain in the butt to get it, especially if there is any distance between you and the tower. You might want to very slightly move your antenna to see if you can raise the signal strength without impacting the other station too much. Also, what software level are you on with your 811? I ended up putting a 10 db booster on the antenna but then slightly attenuated the signal using a 3' length of cable and a standard splitter to balance the increase boost for the ABC station but minimized the "over" boost for rest of the channels (very technical talk here!) But first check to see what your ABC affiliate is either UHF or VHF.


Hmmmm...I guess I always thought that HD/Digital was broadcast via UHF only. Anyway, they are broadcasting in UHF per their Engineer. Also they are, according to antenna.web, 11.6 miles from me which is the same distance as my local CBS and I get that in beautifully. Now the compass direction is different at 303 deg. vs. 356 deg. for CBS. Having said that, according to the installer, the ABC affiliate is broadcasting at only approx. 1/2 the power of CBS. But again when he left here yesterday, I was picking up all (3) locals fairly good. It was only about a couple of hours after he left that I couldn't get ABC and was showing that 49% signal strength that I've heard so much about on this forum.
As to your other question, I'm still on 2.84 as I still haven't gotten anything beyond that and Dish supposedly can't tell me if I will get 2.85, 2.87 or 2.88.
One last thing; I did ask the installer if raising the antenna height would help get my other locals better (NBC & ABC), and he said that antenna height would only improve the analog stations and that as to HD/Digital, you either get it or not and that heighth doesn't matter. I will say I was surprised about this & just doesn't make since to me.

Ken


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

49 just means an unknown signal to noise ratio. It might be tough to find an antenna that has just the right amount of directionality for your situation. Raising the antenna will only get you a slightly better signal.


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## N0JS (Feb 21, 2005)

Is there any chance at all in the future that a software upgrade may somehow improve the 49% issue? I have two 811s and I have als0o used two other digital set top boxes and they both did a better job of handling digital over the air broadcast. Also, are any of the other DISH receivers that have digital integrated OTA tuners having this much trouble with digital OTA signals or is this unique to the 811 or worse with the 811?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

NOJS: The 811 team did a lot of adjustments on the 811 to minimize what is terms the 49% issue. My gut is that the OTA locking is about as good as it will get. You might get a slight improvement, but I would not expect to much better performance. Having said that, my 811 and my 921 lock on the same channels and I get similar performance from the two. 

Most people believe that the 49% issue is a result of one or three things. Multi-pathing, weak signal, or possible data stream problems in the OTA signal. 

Well two out of the three you may be able to improve. My opinion is that OTA reception is a bit of an art and very dependent on location and your surroundings. I have always given the following advice to help improve OTA reception.

1) Look around what neighbors are using. Mimic what works in you neighborhood if possible. 
2) get a Pre-amp and attuentor and see if this improves the situation.
3) Surf the web for people in you area and see how they are handeling their OTA installs in your area. avsforum.com is a good place to start. also atennaweb.org.

It is my opinion the 811 is more picky about multi-pathing so it might be a bit more tricky to get it working where another STB did not have an issue. For me it did take some work to get a reliable signal. 

That is my 2 cents.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> NOJS: The 811 team did a lot of adjustments on the 811 to minimize what is terms the 49% issue. My gut is that the OTA locking is about as good as it will get. You might get a slight improvement, but I would not expect to much better performance. Having said that, my 811 and my 921 lock on the same channels and I get similar performance from the two.
> 
> Most people believe that the 49% issue is a result of one or three things. Multi-pathing, weak signal, or possible data stream problems in the OTA signal.
> 
> ...


This brings up some questions I've had and maybe can get answered here;
First of all..multipathing: I assume this is referring to the connection of more than (1) TV off the same antenna?
Second; as to pre-amps and attenuators: In my case this new Winegard GS-2200 that was just installed is amplified (supposedly uses the 811 for the amplification). One of the problems I'm having is that when I change channels (OTA), it may take 5-10 seconds to lock on a (Digital/UHF) signal. Is this normal? Would a pre-amp or attenuator possibly help in this case? FYI: The installer came back out yesterday, raised the heighth of the antenna another 15'. My signal strenth improved on (2) of my locals, but the other (NBC affiliate) will not come in at all. It seems though that raising the antenna did seem to eliminate the freezing up issues I was getting on the other (2) digital channels. The only reason I'm not complaing about not getting my local NBC is that I do get it and Fox via a waiver out of Chicago, although it's SD of course.
Lastly; noone in my neighborhood has an OTA that I've seen...most all out here seem to be using cable and are not into the HD stuff, so I can't really mimic anything neighbors are doing..

Ken


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

I assume the installer tried some other antennas as well, such as a bow-tie style?

Multi-path problems mean the signal reaches your antenna by taking multiple pathways. Since each path is a different length, the original signal reaches your house at different times. This problem will show up if there is an object between your antenna and the station’s antenna. If you can see the transmitting antenna from your roof, the direct signal will be so much stronger than any of the other paths, you will likely not have a multi-path problem. There are new technologies coming out soon designed to handle these multi-paths. I have been considering returning my 811 and getting something else when a STB based on the LG DT3303 chip when it comes out. Dish is probably years away from using these new technologies.

An amplifier at the antenna is used to overcome the signal degradation in the line between the antenna and 811. In another words, if the 811 was on your roof right next to the antenna there would be no need for an amplifier.

I think a different style antenna would help your situation more than amplifier or attenuater. Your problem is likely a lack of antenna gain. Typically, the strongest station exhibits the most multi-path problems. The opposite from your case.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

khearrean said:


> This brings up some questions I've had and maybe can get answered here;
> First of all..multipathing: I assume this is referring to the connection of more than (1) TV off the same antenna?
> Second; as to pre-amps and attenuators: In my case this new Winegard GS-2200 that was just installed is amplified (supposedly uses the 811 for the amplification). One of the problems I'm having is that when I change channels (OTA), it may take 5-10 seconds to lock on a (Digital/UHF) signal. Is this normal? Would a pre-amp or attenuator possibly help in this case? FYI: The installer came back out yesterday, raised the heighth of the antenna another 15'. My signal strenth improved on (2) of my locals, but the other (NBC affiliate) will not come in at all. It seems though that raising the antenna did seem to eliminate the freezing up issues I was getting on the other (2) digital channels. The only reason I'm not complaing about not getting my local NBC is that I do get it and Fox via a waiver out of Chicago, although it's SD of course.
> Lastly; noone in my neighborhood has an OTA that I've seen...most all out here seem to be using cable and are not into the HD stuff, so I can't really mimic anything neighbors are doing..
> ...


 Say Ken, I just plugged in a cheap inline attenuator from Radio Shack onto the back of my 942 attenna coax. I now get all three of my tv stations with a good signal. I was getting break ups before on Channel 6 and now I am getting : 
Channel 6 is coming in with a 83-89 signal. 
Channel 12 is coming in with a 76 - 80 signal . 
Channel 4 is coming in with 74 - 76 strength.

I am still using my terk 44 clip on ota atenna and it is multi directional . I only had to adjust it a little to lock in all three digital stations when I switched from a 921 to the new 942. I am also getting all the analog stations and a not so great picture on Fox 64 a low powered station.

When I had the 811 last year for a month , I couldn't get it to work all the time. I got the 49% problem all the time. I love the 942. If you can afford it you really ought to get one of these new 942s.

I got my 942 from www.dishdepot.com and he let me trade in my 811. Look on the website and it lists the trade in value for the 811. YOu then would get a great receiver that records and had a ota digital tuner you can record on and 2 satellite tuners that you can record on.

By the way did you get a side satellite dish for 61.5 and the Voom channels yet? You need to if not. You will love Voom !


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Say Ken, I just plugged in a cheap inline attenuator from Radio Shack onto the back of my 942 attenna coax. I now get all three of my tv stations with a good signal. I was getting break ups before on Channel 6 and now I am getting :
> Channel 6 is coming in with a 83-89 signal.
> Channel 12 is coming in with a 76 - 80 signal .
> Channel 4 is coming in with 74 - 76 strength.
> ...


Hi Mike:
I can try the attenuator, but I guess I was under the impression that would be needed if I was getting too much signal; guess I was wrong. If it helped you, I may get it tomorrow & try it.
After the OTA install yesterday, I can get 6 & 12 digital, but not 4 at all. Shawn didn't really know why I can't get 4 as he said he's never had any problem before. BTW, 6 is a great picture, if I could just quit getting audio freezes, etc.
I'd love a 942, but the 'WAF' on that right now would be next to nill..
As to Voom, yes...I talked to the right person at Dish and they're installing a Dish @ 61.5 and adding the Voom channels this coming Tuesday.

Ken


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

khearrean said:


> Hi Mike:
> I can try the attenuator, but I guess I was under the impression that would be needed if I was getting too much signal; guess I was wrong. If it helped you, I may get it tomorrow & try it.
> After the OTA install yesterday, I can get 6 & 12 digital, but not 4 at all. Shawn didn't really know why I can't get 4 as he said he's never had any problem before. BTW, 6 is a great picture, if I could just quit getting audio freezes, etc.
> I'd love a 942, but the 'WAF' on that right now would be next to nill..
> ...


 Remember it is the smaller in line attenuator for $3.99 not the big silver one with the adjustable knob for $9.99. I have both and the small one I bought today worked . The funny thing Channel 6 and 4 or in the same direction so you should be able to get both if your antenna is pointed in that direction. My channel 6 did the same thing with freezes and break ups but not a one since I installed the attenuator this afternoon. I hope it works for you too.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> .... I got my 942 from www.dishdepot.com and he let me trade in my 811...


Hey Mike - Really??!!! So can you tell me (PM if you wish) what type of deal you got?? I would be very interested.......


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

bavaria72 said:


> Hey Mike - Really??!!! So can you tell me (PM if you wish) what type of deal you got?? I would be very interested.......


 I got $300.00 since I am a good customer with him. I have been doing trade ins and buying receivers since 2002. I think the website lists $250.00 for anyone who wants to trade in their 921. Remember that their is no TAX on anything you buy from www.dishdepot.com if you live outside of Florida and the shipping is FREE if you buy from him and it is free when you ship it back for trade in. Just call or email Mark at the dishdepot and tell him what you want to trade in.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Remember it is the smaller in line attenuator for $3.99 not the big silver one with the adjustable knob for $9.99. I have both and the small one I bought today worked . The funny thing Channel 6 and 4 or in the same direction so you should be able to get both if your antenna is pointed in that direction. My channel 6 did the same thing with freezes and break ups but not a one since I installed the attenuator this afternoon. I hope it works for you too.


Right before I was going to install the attenuator, channel 4 (NBC) started coming in. It was fine for awhile, but now all it seems to do is freeze constantly. Re-booting the 811 doesn't help nor anything else I tried. I'm hesitating installing the attenuator as I'm getting such a good signal strength from 6 & 12 and hate to lower those numbers for the sake of one channel.

Ken


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Ken I sent you a private email the other day about using the in line amplifier with power source plugged into the ota line and using the atteunator on the back of the ota antenna port of the receiver. Just wondering if you got it and if you might want to try it? I still think you ought to spend the money on that 942 and trade that 811 in. OF course then you will need two cables run in your house to the receiver. 

Last night I was actually getting Channel 2 , channel 13 , channel 20 , channel 26 and channel 55 from Houston and they were all getting a 63 or higher signal lock . This morning I couldn't get any. I think the channel 6 engineer said they call that skip when you can get signals from 90 miles out from Houston. This morning I was only getting our local channels from 4, 6 and 12. OF course they are all locked in with no signal breakups or glitches.


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