# So long, R15.



## DTivoFan (Jul 30, 2005)

Well, I really tried to give the DirecTV+ DVR a chance.

But, I had to deal with:

a) slow menu response
b) manual recordings showing as "Manual Record" in MyVOD
c) lack of dual live buffers
d) awkward ff and rewind, resulting in my watching many commercials
e) [related to above] lack of 30 second skip
f) weird option to "record new, repeats, or both" as opposed to the sensible Tivo recording rules, which invoked the 28 day rule.
g) the response to the remote commands would get so slow, that I had to reboot every week, and lose all guide info.

I finally came to the last straw when I came home last night, and my favorite show hadn't recorded, for no apparent reason.

I've ordered a DTivo thru the "DVR4Me" promo, and when it arrives, I'll transfer the R15 HD to it, and throw the rest of the R15 in the dumpster where it belongs.


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

I would not dump the R15 just yet for they will hopfully have the bugs worked out in the future and if they do this reciever will have great potential its just not quite there yet. I hope it is sooner rather than later for everyone involved, I have not had near the problems that most have reported my only real issue has been with the caller id and thats it. Your best bet would be to deactivate the R15 when you get the tivo and place the R15 in the closet until all the bugs have been ironed out.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I can't really argue with anyone that has given it a shot... but

a) As compared to the blazing fast menu's of the TiVo units?
b) Okay... I have to check my TiVo... what do they show up there as?
c) Fair enough
d) That probably isn't going to change any time soon (reference to the auto corrections)
e) From what I am told, that the Next Next software release may introduce a feature similar to 30 second skip
f) TiVo has the same rules, just adds "All with Duplicates, to override the 28 day rule"... but I do agree something similar to the 28 day rule needs to get in there
g) That should improve with the next software update.

As for your show not being recorded... yep that is a big problem, one that I hope they fix soon.

As for "gutting" the box... I would have to agree with Mavrick... You can get 160gb hard drives for dirt cheep now... I wouldn't gut the R15 yet... Shelf it... sure, but wait a few months before gutting it... because as of right now, there is no process to put the image back on the drive... If you do want to come back.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> b) Okay... I have to check my TiVo... what do they show up there as?


It starts with "Manual:" but that's followed by the name of the actual program that was playing at the time. Novel idea, huh? Hope they didn't patent it. :grin:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> It starts with "Manual:" but that's followed by the name of the actual program that was playing at the time. Novel idea, huh? Hope they didn't patent it. :grin:


 I don't think I have actually ever done a manual record outside of testing purposes... thanks for the update.

And if they did patent it.... I think that one would be a very quick case in court... not in favor of TiVo... :hurah:


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## Cyberdude (Feb 4, 2006)

Hey, DTivoFan, I hear you loud and clear. We used TiVo for about 2.5 years and had very few if any complaints EXCEPT we needed more recording space. So for Christmas I ordered "an upgraded TiVo with a lot more disk space". What a surprise when we turned it on. Gee, TiVo sure has changed their format a lot, we kept saying. In short, we have experienced most of the problems listed on this forum. It took us awhile to figure out that we didn't have a TiVo unit at all. We got something called an R15. DirecTV didn't bother to tell me that they didn't offer TiVo any more. So after two months of use and returning one R15 for another (refurbished) and spending between $200 and $300 in the process, we still have what we consider a seriously inferior receiver (from a user's standpoint), and I have no idea how to put the R15 in a closet and revert to buying a "larger" TiVo unit. It seems we have a 1-year contract with DirectTV so it will cost us $175 (as I recall) to stop using the R15. What a bummer. Why in the world would DirecTV decide to stop using TiVo when they have so many satisfied customers??  If they had just replaced it with an improved equivalent to TiVo, or even nearly the same. We are mystified by the whole thing. 

Actually my question is, how does one work directly with TiVo? Does the TiVo include a receiver or do I still use a DirecTV receiver? Once hooked up, will we see all the old TiVo features we've come to love so well? What about monthly charges? We've always paid one DirecTV bill that included the TiVo. How does TiVo interface with DirecTV? Is it a unit that plugs into the DirecTV receiver?? How much can I expect to pay for a TiVo unit?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The "time commitment" is not tied to the physical reciever, it is tied to your service account.... So you can deactivate a piece of equipment, so long as you keep your service account open for the comitment time frame.

That is how you can "shelf" a unit.

There had to be reasons why they wanted to shift... but last I checked, none of us where in the board room during the discussion between DirecTV and TiVo so anything we say is just "rumor" mill stuff... the fact is that DirecTV and TiVo are parting ways...

The R15 ceratinly has rough edges, and some gashes... hopefully after another few software releases, these first few months will just be in the past.. (Just like Tivo rough start is in the past).... Hopefully, but time will only tell.

As for your other questions:

If you want to get a unit directly from TiVo, Inc... you will need a seperate DirecTV reciever... There is no longer a product sold from TiVo, Inc. that has an integrated DirecTV box.

You would also have to pay TiVo's service fee ($13 a month, or $300ish for lifetime), and the DirecTV service fee (minus the DVR fee, since you are not using one of their DVRs). You would only have 1 tuner, and probably at 1/3 of the recording space (if you keep the TiVo inc unit at BEST mode, and if you drop down to BASIC mode... you are going to have a significant change in Picture quality).

You will gain the navie support for the networking aspects of the TiVo unit, and all that it gaves you.

How it interfaces: Output of the DirecTV reciever to the TiVo unit. Then the TiVo unit will connect via Serial cable or an IR blaster, so that it can tell the DirecTV reciver to change channels.

TiVo units for a 40hr unit are about $49 right now after rebate


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## Cyberdude (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, Earl. Clears a lot up. I definitely want two-tuner support, so I guess I'm stuck with the R15. (Pfffft!)

"So you can deactivate a piece of equipment, so long as you keep your service account open for the comitment time frame."

Just what does that mean? Does it mean that I have to pay for the use of the R15 even if it's in the closet? Or does it mean I will have a reduction in monthly fee, but I have to stay with DirecTV for a year? I have no real quarrel with DirecTV programming, and I would want to continue it. I just wanted a much larger disk capacity. It is my understanding that my R15 has a 100 hr capacity.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Or...

For the price of shipping, I'll trade you a Series2 DirecTV DVR with TiVo (40 hr.) for your R15!

Are people going to get tired of me offering this trade?  As much as everyone HATES their R15, no one wants to give one up! 

Ricky


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Cyberdude said:


> "So you can deactivate a piece of equipment, so long as you keep your service account open for the comitment time frame."
> 
> Just what does that mean? Does it mean that I have to pay for the use of the R15 even if it's in the closet? Or does it mean I will have a reduction in monthly fee, but I have to stay with DirecTV for a year? I have no real quarrel with DirecTV programming, and I would want to continue it. I just wanted a much larger disk capacity. It is my understanding that my R15 has a 100 hr capacity.


No.. you can deactivate it so you no longer pay the $4.99 mirroring fee.

You basically just pay for the "Total Choice" or what ever programming package you selected.

The R15 has ~100hr consumer recording time...

Did you have a DTivo before? You could consider upgrading that hard drive, or the one that DesignDawg is offering, with say a 250gb hard drive, and get over 230hrs of record time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Or...
> 
> For the price of shipping, I'll trade you a Series2 DirecTV DVR with TiVo (40 hr.) for your R15!
> 
> ...


I offered the same thing since November, and haven't had anyone take me up on the offer...


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I offered the same thing since November, and haven't had anyone take me up on the offer...


Darnedest thing, isn't it? Everyone hates thing thing but wants it. And (especially at TCF) everyone HATES DirecTV and thinks it's pure evil, but nobody will switch away from it. Hmmm....

Ricky


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

One of the better "ideas" I've heard for the DTV/Tivo split was that Tivo wanted to end the "exclusive" portion of their contract with DTV. ie. in negoiations with other providers such as Komcast. Add to that Rupert's ego you've got plenty of material to end a marriage.


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## Dukie (Feb 7, 2006)

I was forced into the R15 when my HDVR2 died (constant reboot). After 4 days of frustration with the R15, I punted and replaced the hard drive in the HDVR2 so I can have TiVO again. Yea!

However, the R15 will be demoted to the bedroom until that they can fix the software defects. There are advantages to the R15 if they get it working right.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

walters said:


> It starts with "Manual:" but that's followed by the name of the actual program that was playing at the time. Novel idea, huh? Hope they didn't patent it. :grin:


Walters (if you are Walters I know from TiVo forum ) you had TiVo for long enough to remember that original TiVo software didn't label manual recordings either. If I recall it right, manual recordings not been labeled until version 3.0 (about 2-3 years after original TiVo was introduced). Let's give DirecTV a chance to fix it in a next year or two.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

samo said:


> Walters (if you are Walters I know from TiVo forum ) you had TiVo for long enough to remember that original TiVo software didn't label manual recordings either. If I recall it right, manual recordings not been labeled until version 3.0 (about 2-3 years after original TiVo was introduced). Let's give DirecTV a chance to fix it in a next year or two.


That's right. DTV started developing their "new and improved" DVR in a void. I'm so sick and tired of this "give these new guys a chance" line.

"Oh it took Tivo a couple of years to get it right so we should give DTV a couple of years to get their new product right.".

Meanwhile, in the real world, Tivo had released a Series 3 (and if you include a couple of years) possibly a Series 4 Tivo.

walters wasn't talking about a 30 second skip here, or the 28 day rule, or even having shows record when they should record. He simply mentioned what a Tivo shows under the UI. A menu item.
_
EDIT: I'm willing to wait and see, but not for a year or two._


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Or...
> 
> For the price of shipping, I'll trade you a Series2 DirecTV DVR with TiVo (40 hr.) for your R15!
> 
> ...


I would have taken you up on the offer if you were offering an even trade, a R15 for a 100 hour Series 2 Directivo and not a 40gig or 35 hour series 2. Instead I have 2 R15 sitting on the shelf in the closet for the day they may actually improve them. They work well for when friends come in town and crash at my house in some of my spare rooms, but then again they never use them to record and only to watch live tv.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

samo said:


> Walters (if you are Walters I know from TiVo forum ) you had TiVo for long enough to remember that original TiVo software didn't label manual recordings either. If I recall it right, manual recordings not been labeled until version 3.0 (about 2-3 years after original TiVo was introduced). Let's give DirecTV a chance to fix it in a next year or two.


Yep, that's me. 

I don't accept "give them time". NDS's XTV has been around about as long as the DTiVo. Actually, their website claims they were the first integrated DVR, but I think I once proved elsewhere people talking about their purchased DSR6000s at about the same time others were talking about seeing a prototype XTV box at a show.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

> That's right. DTV started developing their "new and improved" DVR in a void. I'm so sick and tired of this "give these new guys a chance" line.


Cnanged the smilie in my original post. Do you sence now the sarcasm in my last sentence?  I think that even TiVo's approach with "Manual: + few letters of show name" is rediculous. I couldn't care less how the show was setup to record. Dish has it right. Even if it shows in a timer menu as manual recording, after show is recorded it listed under show's name. And that is how it should be done.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

But what do you do with a manual record that you set for an 8 hour block, list the title of every program that cross that large block?

IMHO... we are harping on a feature that is probably one of the least used (in genearl accross all DVR users), with regards to setting up programs to record.

IMHO... Both the R15 and The TiVos should provide a method where you can "change" the title of a program... As i keep about 10 Jimmie Neurtrons on my TiVo for my son, I would love to change the titles to something more descriptive so I know what they are without having to open the INFO windows.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what do you do with a manual record that you set for an 8 hour block, list the title of every program that cross that large block?
> 
> IMHO... we are harping on a feature that is probably one of the least used (in genearl accross all DVR users), with regards to setting up programs to record.
> 
> IMHO... Both the R15 and The TiVos should provide a method where you can "change" the title of a program... As i keep about 10 Jimmie Neurtrons on my TiVo for my son, I would love to change the titles to something more descriptive so I know what they are without having to open the INFO windows.


Although I agree with both of your opinions, something simple like what Dish does (in your example 8 hr block would have a name of the first show) is much better than what we have with either DirecTiVo or R-15.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> That's right. DTV started developing their "new and improved" DVR in a void. I'm so sick and tired of this "give these new guys a chance" line.
> 
> "Oh it took Tivo a couple of years to get it right so we should give DTV a couple of years to get their new product right.".
> 
> ...


Ya we will see if the Series 3 actually see's the light of day in a decent amount of time. Oh and what excuse will you have for all the bugs it's new software introduces? There WILL be bugs with it they have not released a version yet that didn't. TiVo makes a great product but it's not perfect.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Ya we will see if the Series 3 actually see's the light of day in a decent amount of time. Oh and what excuse will you have for all the bugs it's new software introduces? There WILL be bugs with it they have not released a version yet that didn't. TiVo makes a great product but it's not perfect.


Okay... let's not go down THAT path, in this particular thread.......
Let's wait for the day the T3 is released...


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

To paraphrase lines from another Forum, "Why don't you take this DTivo discussion to the forum that is set up for it".


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I'm so sick and tired of this "give these new guys a chance" line.[/I]


You dont even have an R-15 so I dont see why you are constantly getting upset about it and the things we talk about here. You have a DirecTiVo, use it and be happy.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> To paraphrase lines from another Forum, "Why don't you take this DTivo discussion to the forum that is set up for it".


But at least here... they where kind enough to leave a TiVo forum in place so you don't have to go to a different Forum System...


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

I second that Earl!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> You dont even have an R-15 so I dont see why you are constantly getting upset about it and the things we talk about here. You have a DirecTiVo, use it and be happy.


The argument does have merit... to a degree.... The bar gets set high after the first few "players" are in the market. So if you come up short of that bar.... you are going to get dinged.

I personally still that 3 months out, the box is still in it's infancy.... But it needs to get better, and better quickly... and I think it will over the next couple software updates.... We will look back on these first 3 months and have a good chuckle about it...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Okay... let's not go down THAT path, in this particular thread.......
> Let's wait for the day the T3 is released...


It's not a path i'm trying to go down it just get's annoying when everyone pretends TiVo is perfect. It's not, it has bugs also. Yes our R15's have a whole lot more right now but hopefully that will be taken care and there will be two good platforms.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> It's not a path i'm trying to go down it just get's annoying when everyone pretends TiVo is perfect. It's not, it has bugs also. Yes our R15's have a whole lot more right now but hopefully that will be taken care and there will be two good platforms.


I know... I was just trying to nip a "tangent" for this thread at the bud.. 
No harm, No foul...


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

All we really need is 1-2 more updates to make this a winner.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Depends on what's in an update. IIRC, from reading this forum, the 109A update pretty much fixed Caller ID. That was it. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

But if each update tackles individual items, one or two updates may not place the R15 in the winner column.


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

It is somewhat fixed the caller id problem works better now than it did but it still does not work 100% of the time for everyone.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Depends on what's in an update. IIRC, from reading this forum, the 109A update pretty much fixed Caller ID. That was it. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
> 
> But if each update tackles individual items, one or two updates may not place the R15 in the winner column.


Yes you are pretty much correct. The hard part here is going to be that not everyone see's the same problems. Some of the problems also seem to crop up over time. I have a feeling these items are going to be harder to track down then say the one where everything gets recorded.  Still wanna know how that got missed :lol:


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## DTivoFan (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm not confident that D* will be giving us an upgrade to fix the problems with this box any time soon.

The biggest problems, such as the Series Link reliability problems, as well as the slow response to FF/RW commands, were reported as problems at TCF by Dan Collins's contacts and Crazy Fred back in July. D* has now had 7 months to correct these problems, but we don't seem to be any closer to a solution.

It's just clunky. It has a few advantages (ability to record audio channels, PiP while navigating the menus, and the fact that the machine itself is extremely quiet), but those don't make up for the basic lack of reliability and lack of ease of functionality.

As far as 30 second skip is concerned, Rupert is jubilant that users of the R15 are not able to easily skip advertisements. That isn't going to change.

I'm not a Tivo fan by any measure; I always avoided standalone Tivo's as too expensive. But it seems to me that a D* subscriber who wants a DVR is much better off with a DTivo than with a DTV+.


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## flynlr (Jan 21, 2006)

i will have to add the biggest screwup on this box is the inabilty to store the guide on the hdd. every frickin time i got to reset i need to wait a couple days for it to repopulate.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

DTivoFan said:


> As far as 30 second skip is concerned, Rupert is jubilant that users of the R15 are not able to easily skip advertisements. That isn't going to change.


If they justed fixed the FF/Rewind there would be no need for the 30 skip. The only time that I ever used the 30 skips was if my UTV was locking up with it's FF/Rewinding.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

flynlr said:


> i will have to add the biggest screwup on this box is the inabilty to store the guide on the hdd. every frickin time i got to reset i need to wait a couple days for it to repopulate.


A Couple Days? Everytime I have had to reboot... I get the first 24 hours in about 5 minutes... Then the next couple days over the next hour... by the following morning, it is fully populated...

While I agree that the Guide Data should be stored on the hard drive, and reloaded into memory after a restart (which would still take time)... it doesn't take "days" to fill in.


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## kb9vrg (Feb 8, 2006)

I also would like to say, "Give it a chance." I got my first DishDVR in July of 2000, and it had all sorts of bugs. You know what? I stuck with it and with the many software updates, it turned out to be a relatively reliable product. 

My experience with my R15 in the last month of haivng one is that it's in some ways more stable than the DishDVR was when I got it, and overall does what I expected it to do. Most of the issues I have had are due more than likely to my impatience or habits from being a dish user.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

The guide only takes a long time if you never turn off the box. Turning it off at night should repopulate the entire guide by the next morning.


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

kb9vrg said:


> I also would like to say, "Give it a chance." I got my first DishDVR in July of 2000, and it had all sorts of bugs. You know what? I stuck with it and with the many software updates, it turned out to be a relatively reliable product.


I don't mean to be a doink but July 2000 was over 5.5 years ago. It is understandable a device made back then when the processors were dogazz slow and DVR software was relatively new that there were a bunch of bugs. But this is 2006, processors are lightning fast and the industry has had another 5.5 years of R&D. We should have software that is relatively bug free just because testing methodologies have improved. I think NDS is doing this on the cheap and we are seeing the results.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

tall1 said:


> I don't mean to be a doink but July 2000 was over 5.5 years ago. It is understandable a device made back then when the processors were dogazz slow and DVR software was relatively new that there were a bunch of bugs. But this is 2006, processors are lightning fast and the industry has had another 5.5 years of R&D. We should have software that is relatively bug free just because testing methodologies have improved. I think NDS is doing this on the cheap and we are seeing the results.


Thanks tall1. I agree.


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

Yes this is true but I think their view on this is why should they pay someone to beta test their software and get the bugs out of it when we will beta test it and pay D* each month to do so. In other word we find the bugs and report them while D* and I guess NDS are making money from us for doing it.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

DTivoFan,



> I'm not a Tivo fan by any measure;


I find that a bit curious


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

tall1 said:


> I don't mean to be a doink but July 2000 was over 5.5 years ago. It is understandable a device made back then when the processors were dogazz slow and DVR software was relatively new that there were a bunch of bugs. But this is 2006, processors are lightning fast and the industry has had another 5.5 years of R&D. We should have software that is relatively bug free just because testing methodologies have improved. I think NDS is doing this on the cheap and we are seeing the results.


So what DVR is so much faster that uses these new lightning fast CPU's?

Doesn't matter how many years a product has been on the market when a new version comes out there will be problems. Doesn't matter if it's DVR, CRM, OS, Accounting, Word Processing. Software has bug's while the R15 seems to have too many bugs that I don't understand how they made it out of Beta it's still software.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> DTivoFan,
> 
> I find that a bit curious


Yes kinf of goes against their name


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

DesignDawg said:


> Or...
> 
> For the price of shipping, I'll trade you a Series2 DirecTV DVR with TiVo (40 hr.) for your R15!
> 
> ...


Tell you what, if you pay for shipping and send a 100 hr Directivo unit, I'll make that deal in a second.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Tell you what, if you pay for shipping and send a 100 hr Directivo unit, I'll make that deal in a second.


So, this is the second such "deal" I've been offerend on this, which is pointing me to the fact that, no matter how many "dealbreakers" and otherwise terrible problems people have with the units....all people seem to REALLY care about (when it comes right down to it) is capacity.

Sure, everyone says:

The R15 doesn't have dual tuners...DEALBREAKER!
The R15 is unintuitive...DEALBREAKER!
The R15 doesn't have 30-second skip...DEALBREAKER!
The R15 is ugly and my wife hates it...DEALBREAKER!
The R15 doesn't record things exactly how I want them recorded...DEALBREAKER!

But when an actual DEAL is offered...the only thing that REALLY breaks it is:

Your TiVo is only 40 GB...DEALBREAKER!!!

Hmmm.... So maybe some of these problems aren't as significant as they may seem?

Ricky


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Dawg,

If the installer scheduled for tomorrow delivers an R15 I'm gonna keep it just so everyone gets off my A$$ for not having one. :grin: 

Plus, it'll be a freebe to start playing with.....if you know what I mean.

So you didn't get two Dawg?


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## hitechluddite (Feb 10, 2006)

DesignDawg,
How much is your monthly fee with the TIVO? If the DTV is $5.99 and the TIVO is $12.99 that's the dealbreaker for me... 

Help a newbee out Y'all, How are these SW updates applied? over the air or manually? I'm on the fence now looking for something that can do timed recordings with DTV. It seems I my only choices are to either modify my Wife's PC at the cost of some $400 or go with a DTV PVR and eat $6 a month for ever plus the cost of a DVD recorder....... My old S-VHS is looking better all the time....


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

hitechluddite said:


> DesignDawg,
> How much is your monthly fee with the TIVO? If the DTV is $5.99 and the TIVO is $12.99 that's the dealbreaker for me...
> 
> Help a newbee out Y'all, How are these SW updates applied? over the air or manually? I'm on the fence now looking for something that can do timed recordings with DTV. It seems I my only choices are to either modify my Wife's PC at the cost of some $400 or go with a DTV PVR and eat $6 a month for ever plus the cost of a DVD recorder....... My old S-VHS is looking better all the time....


DirecTivo isthe same amount as the R15. Only the SA TiVo's and $12.99 a month and thats only for the first, the rest are $6.99 I think (can't remember right now).


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> DTivoFan,
> 
> I find that a bit curious


Thunder: Stolen


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## DTivoFan (Jul 30, 2005)

When I first chose the username DTivoFan, it was synonymous with DirecTV DVR fan. It wasn't meant to imply a preference over non-Tivo DirecTV dvr's, which I didn't know were being planned at the time.

I'm not a Tivo fanboy, and I don't care for the appearance of the cartoonish Tivo menu.

I'm just a typical D* subscriber who wants a DVR to time-shift the shows I want to see to my schedule, and to easily skip commercials. Those are the only important criteria to me.

With my DirecTivo, I can schedule recordings and arrange their priority, then be confident that it will record what I want it to, and, if it doesn't, will give me an explanation as to why.

The R15, on the other hand, will frequently not record shows I want, and when I look for an explanation, it will either indicate only "not recorded", or there will be no acknowledgement at all. And it will also record programs I didn't request, for no apparent reason.

There's obviously something very wrong with the Series Link software, and D* doesn't seem close to solving it, or even admitting that a problem exists.

Is there anyone here who would argue that the R15 is as reliable as the DTivo in recording what you have requested? Isn't that the most important feature of a DVR?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I wouldn't "argue" it, waste of energy as we all feel strongly about whatever equiptment we choose. 

But... my R15 is doing a lot smoother than it did in November. It only seems to have series problems with my local channel and has not "missed" a show in the last 3 weeks. I also have a DTivo and had them set the same so as to not miss shows. I have stopped that now as I feel confident that the R15 is reliable. 

DTV either rushed this out or did not properly test it, now it doesn't matter, all that matters is that it is being fixed and will receive updates, unlike other DVR's.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

DTivoFan said:


> The R15, on the other hand, will frequently not record shows I want, and when I look for an explanation, it will either indicate only "not recorded", or there will be no acknowledgement at all. And it will also record programs I didn't request, for no apparent reason.


Earl, Do you know if this is being fixed in the update coming out? It's really annoying not knowing why it didn't record. At least if we knew why it missed it we could try to correct it for the next time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Earl, Do you know if this is being fixed in the update coming out? It's really annoying not knowing why it didn't record. At least if we knew why it missed it we could try to correct it for the next time.


The next software release should significantly improve the reliability of Series Links. But I am not aware of any updates to the "history" segment of the system... (aka... I don't think this next version will contain a segment like the TiVo that will list why it didn't record something, after the fact)


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

DTivoFan said:


> Is there anyone here who would argue that the R15 is as reliable as the DTivo in recording what you have requested?


I would argue that when the DirecTiVos were first released and less than two months old that YES the R-15 is as reliable as the DirecTiVos were in the same time span circumstances maybe even better.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I would argue that when the DirecTiVos were first released and less than two months old that YES the R-15 is as reliable as the DirecTiVos were in the same time span circumstances maybe even better.


Save your carpel tunnel it's a pointless argument here :lol:

Everything is supposed to be perfect now seeing as other products that do the like have been out for a while. Man I feel sorry if any of these people ever tried FreeVo or MythTV or their likes.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I would argue that when the DirecTiVos were first released and less than two months old that YES the R-15 is as reliable as the DirecTiVos were in the same time span circumstances maybe even better.


What model did you have and what software version was it running?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I would argue that when the DirecTiVos were first released and less than two months old that YES the R-15 is as reliable as the DirecTiVos were in the same time span circumstances maybe even better.


I just knew someone would take the bait:lol:


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

DTivoFan said:


> When I first chose the username DTivoFan, it was synonymous with DirecTV DVR fan. It wasn't meant to imply a preference over non-Tivo DirecTV dvr's, which I didn't know were being planned at the time.


I checked the Members List. "DirecTVDVRFan" hasn't been taken.

Sorry, but when you say that, there are still UltimateTV users, so there was another integrated DVR platform through DirecTV. It's not supported by it's designer anymore, but if you find a unit and are willing to pay the $9.99 DVR charge, you're good to go.

People are gonna read a preference into that username, whether you intend it or not. Hard to believe you could be neutral and choose it. I've owned several TiVos, standalone and integrated, but I wouldn't incorporate TiVo into my username on a internet board.

There's nothing wrong with having a preference, but because I'm pretty much sold on TiVo, I don't feel the draw to pick up an R-15. Partly because I don't need another SD DVR and partly because I don't want to pay another mirroring fee. Having said that, I have kept tabs on the unit, read Earl's review on the TiVo Community Forums before it was redirected, and did not rag on the unit the way some TiVo fan boys tend to do. TiVo is not for everyone and I'm not crazy about every feature it offers. I turn off "Suggestions" on every TiVo I activate because I don't need any help finding things to record.

And Bobman is right. I had a S1 D-TiVo, GXCEBOT that I purchased Lifetime on in March of 2001. The dual tuners weren't activated for a few months and one of the software upgrades, 2.something, disable the ability to fast forward while using the "Save to VCR" option! :eek2: And, I have had TiVo do a partial recording with no explanation or loss of power or signal. It only happened once, but it did happen.

As a fairly early adopter of the D-TiVo, I had to put up with some ragging from UTV users about the lack of dual tuners on my platform of choice. All I cared about was that by the time the NFL Season came around that they'd be there, which they were. But, it taught me how futile that kind of banter is. They made their choice and they were happy. I used the Lifetime option @ $199 back then, which is tied to the account, and have since upgraded to an SD-DVR-80 and a HR10-250. In case you didn't know, the HR10-250 is HD-capable. Needless to say, I'm happy with my choice as well. Because of that, I don't feel the need to "educate" those who choose another option.


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## hitechluddite (Feb 10, 2006)

bidger, If you were buying today what would you buy? I don't ask this to start anything... I'm going to make a decision in the next couple of weeks on what to get to time shift so I'll take whatever experienced opinions I can get!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Ok, this discussion is getting silly.

Jump on someone due to their choice of screen name?????


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't think anyone ment any foul with it...

I thought it was Ironic too...  and I have Chatted with DTivoFan before.

Anway...

Let's bring it back on track... else will close this particular thread... as it is getting pretty far from the OP


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Ok, this discussion is getting silly.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ISWIZ said:


> Oh Wolf, you mean now we all have to be serious?


:icon_lol:

Me...Serious????


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Wolffpack, "what" did you get today?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Let's just say I'm the proud papa of a new R15. Ready to start "playing" with my new little child. :righton: :righton: 

Haven't done much yet other than the software upgrade. BTW, this one came with 108x (can't remember the last letter). So the only upgrade was to 109f.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

109F ?!
It should be 109A, is this a typo?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

No.. 109f was released today...


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> Let's just say I'm the proud papa of a new R15. Ready to start "playing" with my new little child. :righton: :righton:


Heh, Heh! .........congrats "papa"


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

After weeks sniffing around and questioning everyone of us, Wolfpack decided to get a real R15!!!! and he even got a version that is newer than mine :-(

I guess we convinced him to switch to something better than what he had )))


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No.. 109f was released today...


HAHA!!!!! The moment we've been waiting for!!!

**off to 02468....**

Ricky


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Let's just say I'm the proud papa of a new R15. Ready to start "playing" with my new little child. :righton: :righton:
> 
> Haven't done much yet other than the software upgrade. BTW, this one came with 108x (can't remember the last letter). So the only upgrade was to 109f.


Welcome Wolf. Now I guess I relly have to be nice to you.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

*Wait...wait...wait.*

My dyslexia must have kicked in there. Just checked my notes. Unit came with 108f upgraded to 109a. :new_Eyecr

My bad here folks, so sorry to get everyone excited. :blackeye:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Well... lets put it this way...
109f Is out there... as I have it sitting on my first system (the one that I got on day one)... but it is not out on my second system yet.

No I am not part of any official Beta program... as far as I know, there isn't any official DirecTV public beta program.

Maybe they pushed me to the front or something... but it is on it's way... It may just be a few days.

Don't go nuts with the 02468 code... 
Unless you look in your Information page and see something in the "future upgrade" line.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> *Wait...wait...wait.*
> 
> My dyslexia must have kicked in there. Just checked my notes. Unit came with 108f upgraded to 109a. :new_Eyecr
> 
> My bad here folks, so sorry to get everyone excited. :blackeye:


NOTE TO SELF: Cancel being nice to Wolffpack!:lol:

Happy Birthday Earl!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks..

Another user just confirmed the reciept of 109f...


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## nabsltd (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I offered the same thing since November, and haven't had anyone take me up on the offer...


Hey, I'll go buy an R15 and send it to you if you'll send me an HR10-250 in trade. At this point, I have no real use for a box that can't receive HD.


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## nabsltd (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what do you do with a manual record that you set for an 8 hour block, list the title of every program that cross that large block?


OK, this is off-topic, but it brought to mind something I thought about that *no* DVR is ever going to do right.

Fox Sunday night is bad during football season because of overrun. If you only like one show, you're fine...you just set a Season Pass/Series Link/whatever and pad enough to feel comfortable.

But, if you like more than one and they are back-to-back, you really can't pad because a few minutes padding isn't enough, and the 30-60 minutes you really need would end up requiring 3 tuners. And, you can't just pad the "last" show if you use a First Run Only/New Episodes/whatever setting, because then if the last show isn't new but the first one is, you get no padding. Even with all this, you'll end up with recordings that say "The Simpsons" that are really part "King of the Hill", too.

For me, the solution is to record the entire block by time every week regardless of whether they are new or not on a "dumb" DVR (PC with HDTV card) and sort it out later...deleting isn't a big deal.

But, the ideal solution would be to set up the same manual recording on the TiVo/R15/whatever with First Run Only/New Episodes/whatever and have the logic set up so that it would record the entire block if any show in the block was new, but otherwise it would record nothing. It'd be hell to try and explain how this worked to users, and it might be a real pain to code, but it would have uses for anybody that gets shows bumped back by sports on a regular basis.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

DesignDawg said:


> But when an actual DEAL is offered...the only thing that REALLY breaks it is:
> 
> Your TiVo is only 40 GB...DEALBREAKER!!!
> 
> ...


No, if I have to choose between products, i'll take the Tivo 40Gig and all, but i am not gonna trade a 160 GB HD which i have several possible uses for. THe canibalized hard drive is worth more than the r15.

I already got DTV to send me a Directivo from the DVR4ME promotion for the cost of shipping so have no need for a 4th DVR, the only reason to shelv one of the 3 i got is if one had more capacity, which is THE REASON I BOUGHT THE R15 in the first place...capacity and because I was going VOIP, well i got the VOIP workaround working on my Tivos so capacity now is the only thing i would change about the Dtivos (If only I had a160 GB HD, oh I do.)

SO for the cost of shipping the R15 to you, I can get a disk to upgrade all my tivos, as long as i have a few hard drives, so it would make little sense to trade the r15 for less that 100GB Dtivo, I'll sacriifice the other 60 GB in capacity just so i wouldn't have to deal with the upgrade..

Here are the DEALBREAKERS

R15 Does not record reliably.

I dislike so many things about it, that even if it did work properly, I'd rather have a Tivo unit. not because it's tivo but because it works.
I have no allegiance to Tivo other than the product works great, but I sure was ready to jump ship on the R15 wasn't I?

The R15 is the worst electronic item I have ever purchased. I have never bought a product that had so many bugs, so many glitches and has less features and is more poorly designed that the product it replaces.

It cannot even do it's primary function. If you bought a new car that had a nicer interior (radio,cupholder, seats etc), got better mileage and had more horsepower, but wouldn't start 40% of the time and the speakers always blew out making your nice radio worthless, and every and then would not allow to use Reverse, without taking it to the shop...how thrilled would you be?

Seriously, many people should lose their job over this...


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Many have, TIVO employees unfortunately. 

It's a piece of entertainment equiptment. FREE, not the price of a new car. I would not even try to drive my TIVO to work, life (and electronic gadgets) are too short to blow a gasket over. 

Enjoy your DTIVO, enjoy life.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what do you do with a manual record that you set for an 8 hour block, list the title of every program that cross that large block?


I think the UTV just listed the titles of the programs and left the descriptions out and put comas between the program titles in the descripton.


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