# Starting to hate the HR20!



## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Another lockup!!! It's like it hates to delete a recording and go to live TV... no matter what technique you use. It's rebooting now, as I type this. I had to do a RBR. Unplugging it for half an hour doesn't help. We went an entire week without a single black recording or a lockup. Then they do a software update on the 30th and all hell broke loose (again). One black screen recording and two lockups. I report this stuff in the software issues thread, but I'm not sure it does any good. So, time for some venting....

I'm starting to side with the wife on this machine. The costant lockups and black screen recordings lately are taking their toll. If I had the money, I would dump all the recordings we have onto a DVD recorder. Then I would reformat the b_tch!!! Even though, this has not proven to solve problems. See... the problem is we started to get our hopes up that with each software update the HR20 would improve (is this too much to ask???). And as time goes along you keep recording shows. In doing so, you make reformatting even more of a hassle. The point is it's getting worse NOT better. I think we may have to move the TiVo back into the living room and use it as a backup. So that we can watch all the stuff off the HR20 and at least TRY the reformat technique. I can't believe I'm even saying that! I pay $120 a month for this bull sh_t??? Having to run a TiVo as a backup??? It seems like I (all of us really) should get some sort of a discount for this crapola! We got the Hr20 in October and it worked pretty darn good... then the software update hell began... here it is 6 months later, and it's gone from bad to worse. All I can say is... I'm glad the HR20 was a free upgrade from our HR10 that died.:nono: :nono2:


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

I just had a lock up. And, three shows were all black yesterday. Plus, my signals, for SAT 119, have been bad or failing since two weeks ago. A lot of stuff got cleaned up with the last fix, but new "old" problems are showing up. 

Not good.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Dude - i feel your pain. I was right there with you. Lockups and black screen recordings up until about a month ago. I was rebooting daily in an attempt to avoid the inevitable bugs. I finally had enough and went to extremes.

1- unplug it and let it sit for 5 minutes
2- plug it back in and after it's back up, do the dreaded - RESET EVERYTHING
3- after it's back up set the recorder to record MPEG-2 HD all day and night until it fills the entire disk.
4- delete everything and reboot

It SUCKED having to do a reset everything and it took a LONG time to reset my season passes and set up my channel lists the way I had them before. I suggest before you do it you get a pad and paper (or spreadsheet) and write down your channel list and season pass list. Then take the plunge. 

Since then I haven't lost a single recording and haven't had a single lock-up. I haven't been cheating by rebooting the machine as a preventative measure either. It's a completely different machine. RELIABLE and rock solid.

Reset everything sucks ass, but IMO the longer you wait the longer you're prolonging the pain. I'm not 100% certain it's the cure-all for everyone, but it made all the difference in the world for my machine (and I was certain my machine was a piece of garbage prior to doing it).

Give it a shot.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Ouch. I feel that pain, had that pain, am still in recovery...

Each time it locks up, please log as much information as you can in the issues forum and on the issues survey. Especially the channels the tuners were set to, what you just played back and deleted, TV and connection type, zip code, OTA vs. MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 channel, etc. Every bit helps.

I wish I had my magic wand, but its still on back-order . But we'll do what we can to help.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Dang I hate to see this. I thought it was getting better.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Que said:


> Dang I hate to see this. I thought it was getting better.


Survey says: it is/was--overall. but not for everyone apparently. AND IT HURTS LIKE (something moderators shouldn't say...) when it happens to you.

Our best hope is "report it here", "report it often", "report in great detail". That will help get the right resources the right information to fix the problems.

Sadly,
Tom


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## Eiderlon (Jan 10, 2007)

Join the club - If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: WHY DID I EVER GET RID OF MY HR10-250 TiVo unit!!!???

Actually - my lock ups and hangs are mostly a thing of the past since 0x130 which for my unit was hang-hell or reboot-city or Red Button Fever or ..... well you get the idea. Not so much in the last 3 weeks or so. Everything has been smooth until this 0x145 software started giving me the "Searching for Authorized Content" message. It just happened to my recording of 24 on FOX this evening. VERY FRUSTRATING!


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Each time it locks up, please log as much information as you can in the issues forum and on the issues survey. Especially the channels the tuners were set to, what you just played back and deleted, TV and connection type, zip code, OTA vs. MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 channel, etc. Every bit helps.


The lock-up scenario doesn't matter what we watched and what channel we went back to after deleting the recording. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn't. Last night:

Watched the first episode of Planet Earth we recorded off Discovery HD.
When it finished we pressed "Info" then hit "more info".
The we pressed deleted.
Hit exit to go back to full screen live TV.
The channel was Cinemax. Soft porn was on (good thing we dont have kids).
LOCKED UP!

See, when it does this, the live feed plays fine and all... but you can't press any buttons on the remote or the front of the HR20-POS. We have to do a RBR. Unplugging it for 5 minutes never has any positive effects.

Saturday, we watched a movie that was recorded of HBO. HR20-POS locked up on channel "Fuse" (videos) after deleting the show. D*, Should we just not delete shows since that causes the lockup? If so, why not install a couple terabyts of storage into the beast!

Sunday, we went to watch last weeks "Medium" recorded off the SD channel. Black screen. Second time thats happened with that show. I reported it... no reponse... no acknowlesgement that anyone even saw my post. Frustrating to say the least. Had to download the show from some bittorrent site and convert it to iPod format. My iPod and the internet is our HR20-POS backup. :nono2:


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Our HR10-250 took a dump. Right at the time they started releasing the HR20-POS. Otherwise, I would still be using the HR10-250... especially after seeing how the HR20-POS behaves after a billion software updates!



Eiderlon said:


> Join the club - If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: WHY DID I EVER GET RID OF MY HR10-250 TiVo unit!!!???
> 
> Actually - my lock ups and hangs are mostly a thing of the past since 0x130 which for my unit was hang-hell or reboot-city or Red Button Fever or ..... well you get the idea. Not so much in the last 3 weeks or so. Everything has been smooth until this 0x145 software started giving me the "Searching for Authorized Content" message. It just happened to my recording of 24 on FOX this evening. VERY FRUSTRATING!


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## Tiebmbr (Mar 27, 2007)

Jedi...fear leads to anger, anger leads to HATE, HATE leads to suffering.....


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

So.... I guess tonight I'll have to break the news to my wife... "Honey, I'll have to bring the old reliable (non-HD) TiVo into the living room so that we have a working DVR. Once connected, you will have to reschedule everything. Then we will have to diligently try to watch all of our shows off of the now half full HR20-POS so that I can reformat the thing!" My sphincter tightens up just thinking about doing that! UGH!


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Funny... You are the first person to say that to me in this forum. But I have to correct you:

HR20 leads to fear, HR20 leads to anger, HR20 leads to HATE.... Hate for the HR20 leads to suffering.



Tiebmbr said:


> Jedi...fear leads to anger, anger leads to HATE, HATE leads to suffering.....


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## Tiebmbr (Mar 27, 2007)

g4jedi said:


> Funny... You are the first person to say that to me in this forum. But I have to correct you:
> 
> HR20 leads to fear, HR20 leads to anger, HR20 leads to HATE.... Hate for the HR20 leads to suffering.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Have you tried a reset everything? You will lose everything which sucks but it seems to fix a lot of problems. A while back one of my R15's had a lot of problems. A advanced TECH told me to do it. After doing it I have not had one problem.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> Have you tried a reset everything? You will lose everything which sucks but it seems to fix a lot of problems. A while back one of my R15's had a lot of problems. A advanced TECH told me to do it. After doing it I have not had one problem.


Obviously, you have not read the entire thread....


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> Obviously, you have not read the entire thread....


No. Sorry.


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## 3stripes (Feb 16, 2007)

Tiebmbr said:


> Jedi...fear leads to anger, anger leads to HATE, HATE leads to suffering.....


OK - that made me LOL for real... :lol:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

If you keep having problems after a format/reset everything then at this point I'd suggest having DirecTV fedex you a new box at no cost. Heck, maybe ask for a -100 model if you want. We are getting to the point (if not already) with the HR20 that widespread major issues like this are getting fewer and fewer. At least from the Issues thread it appears to be. If the problems like this on a particular box continues I would definately get a replacement box and see what happens. Got nothing to lose at this point.

And good luck.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2007)

Getting the hardware replaced does sound like the best bet. If he's running the same software version as the rest of us, there's no reason he should still be having these problems. Mine has been rock-solid reliable for a couple of months now after having frequent lockups and missed recordings with earlier software versions.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> HR20 leads to fear, HR20 leads to anger, HR20 leads to HATE.... Hate for the HR20 leads to suffering.


That should be your new Signature.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

This is why I'm probably going to E* in fall. That D* wants to charge me $300 for a buggy, flawed DVR is just appalling. If D* would offer Tivo again, I'd probably stay with them. (Especially if this Tivo had the options of the Non-D* Tivos.) I hear that FiOS is coming to my area soon. So maybe that would be an option as well.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

g4jedi said:


> Another lockup!!! It's like it hates to delete a recording and go to live TV... no matter what technique you use. It's rebooting now, as I type this. I had to do a RBR. Unplugging it for half an hour doesn't help. We went an entire week without a single black recording or a lockup. Then they do a software update on the 30th and all hell broke loose (again). One black screen recording and two lockups. I report this stuff in the software issues thread, but I'm not sure it does any good. So, time for some venting....
> 
> I'm starting to side with the wife on this machine. The costant lockups and black screen recordings lately are taking their toll. If I had the money, I would dump all the recordings we have onto a DVD recorder. Then I would reformat the b_tch!!! Even though, this has not proven to solve problems. See... the problem is we started to get our hopes up that with each software update the HR20 would improve (is this too much to ask???). And as time goes along you keep recording shows. In doing so, you make reformatting even more of a hassle. The point is it's getting worse NOT better. I think we may have to move the TiVo back into the living room and use it as a backup. So that we can watch all the stuff off the HR20 and at least TRY the reformat technique. I can't believe I'm even saying that! I pay $120 a month for this bull sh_t??? Having to run a TiVo as a backup??? It seems like I (all of us really) should get some sort of a discount for this crapola! We got the Hr20 in October and it worked pretty darn good... then the software update hell began... here it is 6 months later, and it's gone from bad to worse. All I can say is... I'm glad the HR20 was a free upgrade from our HR10 that died.:nono: :nono2:


Since we're in the same neck of the woods (I'm in Carlsbad), I hear you. The last two previous updates had the same problems as yours: delete the show with a dash-dash then freeze. With this latest release, so far (touches wood, rubs rabbits foot, sacrifices an old VCR to the electronics gods), no lockups. Had a couple of black screens recording Sesame Street off KPBS for my son, but once I deleted the series link and re-entered it as a manual recording, it's been fine.


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I pay $120 a month for this bull sh_t??? Having to run a TiVo as a backup??? It seems like *I should get some sort of a discount* for this crapola!


You should.........call customer service and ask for discount for your trouble. I think there is even a TIPS & Trick on it. I think the key is to ask for the Customer Retention Department when you get Customer Service.....they are the ones with the budgets for comp. Just state your case....I think they'll make the pain a little more $$$ adequate at least.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

He hasn't even tried a reset everything yet........

Call level 2 tech and that's one of the first things they'll ask you. 

Just do it and get it over with. Odds are excellent that you have a perfectly good machine. I struggled with mine for FAR too long before I finally reset it and I could kick myself for putting it off. Instead I complained on and on about the lockups, IKOD and black screen recordings..... when I could have been enjoying a rock solid machine far sooner and avoided many temper tantrums.

Rip off the band-aid brother! You'll be glad you did. (In fact, I'd recommend doing the full scenario I outlined in my earlier post just to cover all your bases)


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Que said:


> That should be your new Signature.


Good idea! Done!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jorossian said:


> He hasn't even tried a reset everything yet........


IIRC, he has already done that a few months back...
The OP has has his HR20 nearly as long as I have..


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

rcoleman111 said:


> Getting the hardware replaced does sound like the best bet. If he's running the same software version as the rest of us, there's no reason he should still be having these problems. Mine has been rock-solid reliable for a couple of months now after having frequent lockups and missed recordings with earlier software versions.


Yeah... my theory is... I think all these software updates on top of one another costantly (think band- aids) are the root of the problem. Think about it... for us, the HR20 gets WORSE with each update.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

thekochs said:


> You should.........call customer service and ask for discount for your trouble. I think there is even a TIPS & Trick on it. I think the key is to ask for the Customer Retention Department when you get Customer Service.....they are the ones with the budgets for comp. Just state your case....I think they'll make the pain a little more $$$ adequate at least.


I think that sounds like a good idea. Anyone got the right number I should call?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

g4jedi said:


> I think that sounds like a good idea. Anyone got the right number I should call?


1-800-DIRECTV


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> IIRC, he has already done that a few months back...
> The OP has has his HR20 nearly as long as I have..


Based on what was written in the OP it appeared that he hadn't (but he would if he could dump all his recordings onto a DVD recorder first). If he'd reset it months ago prior to posting this thread then I'd definitely return the box.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> IIRC, he has already done that a few months back...
> The OP has has his HR20 nearly as long as I have..


Actually Earl, he is correct. I have not done a "reset everything". While reset everything does seem like the only real solution (at this point anyway), here are the issues in doing that:

1. Since you lose everything, so we would have to try and watch all recorded shows.

2. It's half full so the above would take some time. For this reason, we would have to do #3 below...

3. Schedule all of the shows we watch to record on the TiVo (cough cough) in the bedroom so that the HR20 wouldn't keep filling up.

4. We would have to watch any new shows in the bedroom, since the HR20 cannot play recorded shows if the actuall cables are not connected. I only have enough cable feeds in the living room for one DVR.

Needless to say, the "reset everything" will be a hassle for many reasons. It sure would be nice if there was a way to backup your recorded shows to another drive like a computer!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

g4jedi said:


> Actually Earl, he is correct. I have not done a "reset everything". While reset everything does seem like the only real solution (at this point anyway), here are the issues in doing that:


Ahh... thanks for the correction..


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

I agree it sucks - I'm glad I did it though.

Before doing it though, save yourself some headaches and get a pad and pencil, scroll through your prioritizer list and write everything down first. Also your Favorite channels list. That's another fun one to set up.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Since we're in the same neck of the woods (I'm in Carlsbad), I hear you. The last two previous updates had the same problems as yours: delete the show with a dash-dash then freeze. With this latest release, so far (touches wood, rubs rabbits foot, sacrifices an old VCR to the electronics gods), no lockups. Had a couple of black screens recording Sesame Street off KPBS for my son, but once I deleted the series link and re-entered it as a manual recording, it's been fine.


I hadn't thought of deleting and re-entering the series link. This might help, since both recent black screen recordings were for the same show "Medium". Honestly, we could live with the lockups way more than black screen recordings. So, that being said, I think I will have the wife re-do the series link for "Medium" to see if that helps. Now... to find a workaround to keep it from locking up when deleting a recorded show!


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

jorossian said:


> I agree it sucks - I'm glad I did it though.
> 
> Before doing it though, save yourself some headaches and get a pad and pencil, scroll through your prioritizer list and write everything down first. Also your Favorite channels list. That's another fun one to set up.


We would have to do this anyway, just to make sure we re-did everything on the TiVo in the bedroom.

I'm still not ready to take this plunge yet. See the above post.


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## jimbojive (Mar 12, 2007)

yep I'm kinda disapointed in the whole hr20 and I ain't had mind 3 weeks.
with the blue screens , sounds out of sink,
only $300.00 and a 2 yr contract, and 100.00 a month WHAT A DEAL.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

jimbojive said:


> yep I'm kinda disapointed in the whole hr20 and I ain't had mind 3 weeks.
> with the blue screens , sounds out of sink,
> only $300.00 and a 2 yr contract, and 100.00 a month WHAT A DEAL.


Maybe you should try a "reset everything" since yours is so new. If not, call for a replacement before you get in too deep like myself.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

g4jedi said:


> Now... to find a workaround to keep it from locking up when deleting a recorded show!


I think VOS was helping a guy that was seeing this a lot and a reset everything/format fixed it.

I know it's a pain but I guess you need to weigh losing recordings vs. constant lockups and frustrations. Right now looks like you've chosen the recordings.

Get watching! April is your chance to catch up before May sweeps. 
Or limp along until June.

I still backup all my recordings on my old SD DirecTivo. I've never needed it except once because my CBS HD OTA transmitter was down (thus blank recordings on the HR20) so I had to resort to watching it in SD. But the DirecTivo is just sitting there lonely and unused so I might as well have it do something.


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## Andrew_J_M (Feb 11, 2005)

Well, mine's fine.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Andrew_J_M said:


> Well, mine's fine.


I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone posted a reply like that. :nono2:


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

For the time being, we'll try a different technique after watching a recorded show. As we know, there are a couple ways to delete a show. We'll also try to NOT delete the show for a while. Then delete it after watching live TV for a few minutes. If I can bypass this glitch (which is clearly software related), I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of reformatting the HR20. So we'll try this along with redoing the series link for Medium and see how it goes... for now...



bonscott87 said:


> I think VOS was helping a guy that was seeing this a lot and a reset everything/format fixed it.
> 
> I know it's a pain but I guess you need to weigh losing recordings vs. constant lockups and frustrations. Right now looks like you've chosen the recordings.
> 
> ...


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

g4jedi said:


> For the time being, we'll try a different technique after watching a recorded show. As we know, there are a couple ways to delete a show. We'll also try to NOT delete the show for a while. Then delete it after watching live TV for a few minutes. If I can bypass this glitch (which is clearly software related), I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of reformatting the HR20. So we'll try this along with redoing the series link for Medium and see how it goes... for now...


You said earlier that you didn't have a DVD recorder to dump your recordings to. I didn't have one either, but then I saw all these "reward points" I racked up over the years on my AMEX card. Hopped over to their redemption site & got a fairly good Panasonic DVD recorder for NO COST. Shipping was free and I got in three days. Works great, and box of a 100 blank DVD's at Fry's are going for $19.

Just a thought should you decide to do a "reset everything".


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

Ugh, now my HR20 isnt recording shows it should like Law & Order


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## dpcv8 (Mar 7, 2007)

I havent had a single problem in months

sucks that others are still having issues.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

I also feel bad for these guys. I know just how they feel. All I can say is that once their HR20 is working as it should they're going to love it. I used to HATE hearing people post their "NO PROBLEMS EVER" accounts and resented the idea that they'd somehow assume it was user error. There was one poster I almost would have strangled if I could....  But now that I'm having the consumer experience he had from day one I can somewhat understand his exhuberance. It's really a fantastic machine when it works and has worked long enough for the owner to no longer worry whether their favorite show will be there when they press play.

The #1 reason you get a DVR is to remove stress from your life. It frees you from network schedules and ad-nauseum commercialism. When your DVR is a source of stress it's like taking a techies favorite "blankie" away 

Hang in there and keep hammering away. From those of us who've made it through the labyrinth of bugs to finally have a gloriously functional and solid box, it really is one of the best consumer products out there for viewing HDTV. If you get no results with your own fixes from ideas given from this message board (which are usually far better than anything a CSR will recommend) then bang away at DTV until they give you a working unit and also compensate you with credit on your account for your inconvenience.

Best of luck G4Jedi!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> For the time being, we'll try a different technique after watching a recorded show. As we know, there are a couple ways to delete a show. We'll also try to NOT delete the show for a while. Then delete it after watching live TV for a few minutes. If I can bypass this glitch (which is clearly software related), I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of reformatting the HR20. So we'll try this along with redoing the series link for Medium and see how it goes... for now...


I am coming in here late....
I have taken a real "pig" of a HR-20 & had it behave quite well. The software has improved over the last few months from a "sorry state" when I first got mine.
"The pig" in question behaved flawlessly for two weeks until there was a power "glitch or blip". It was a short drop of power. The HR-20 wasn't on any UPS so it saw the worst of it. I've lost power on mine, but it has always been for some time as it takes my power company 45 min minimum to restore it.
What "cured" the pig was doing the reset everything, which as you all know formats the disk, losing everything. What it also does is clear all of the chips on the circuit boards, which is where I think the problems are. With many, many years working with systems, it can be "common" for a chip or part of a circuit to store a some voltage [where it shouldn't] that causes some of the chips to be out of sync, for the lack of a better term.
If someone has had problems with a computer motherboard and needed to clear the BIOS [with the jumper], this is what I think is the same thing. I've seen it with aircraft many times where you remove a "black box" and replace it [same box]. In the Air force the "corrective action" was coded "re-seat connectors".
Regardless, the only way to accomplish this with the HR-20 is the "reset everything" from the setup menu. 
So here is the question: is it worth limping along with it mis-behaving or to "bite the bullet" and go for the complete flushing out? If you do, you have a "fresh box" that will retain the current software and has shown to behave afterwords. FWIW..


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Good point VOS

I also added a UPS about 2 weeks after the "reset everything" so there's a possibility that this also contributed to the long term stability. It should be noted though that the receiver had never made it more than 2 days without screwing up a recording before the reset and the UPS wasn't added until well after that timespan. The reset most likely made the "misbehaving" chips fall in line, however it's possibe that the UPS is what has kept them in line for so long.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jorossian said:


> Good point VOS
> 
> I also added a UPS about 2 weeks after the "reset everything" so there's a possibility that this also contributed to the long term stability. It should be noted though that the receiver had never made it more than 2 days without screwing up a recording before the reset and the UPS wasn't added until well after that timespan. The reset most likely made the "misbehaving" chips fall in line, however it's possible that the UPS is what has kept them in line for so long.


There are three way into the receiver: the SAT feed, the remote, & the power cord. I haven't had power problems [as posted I go out for a long time]. Short "blips" can be very hard on a hard drive. Ask anybody with computers [and why there are so many UPS makers]. The HR-20 is a computer "slimmed down" to the minimum, to do the job.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> There are three way into the receiver: the SAT feed, the remote, & the power cord. I haven't had power problems [as posted I go out for a long time]. Short "blips" can be very hard on a hard drive. Ask anybody with computers [and why there are so many UPS makers]. The HR-20 is a computer "slimmed down" to the minimum, to do the job.


Four more (ways into the HR20) if you consider lightning.

Phone line (very vulnerable to lightning) (if connected)

Network Cable (network computer's modem phone line > network connections)

Video

Audio

Basically, anything connected to the HR20 (to or from) that could be hit could easily transfer quite a pop to the HR20.

The only one of the above that would really concern me is the phone line.

I have a picture somewhere of my friend's TV room with a wall phone literally blown off the wall and a bunch of melted plastic. Computer modem and RS232 board shot, and the dishwasher failed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hasan said:


> Four more (ways into the HR20) if you consider lightning.
> Phone line (very vulnerable to lightning) (if connected)
> Network Cable (network computer's modem phone line > network connections)
> Video
> ...


OK, you got me there. The phone line for sure. I was mostly thinking of how the HR-20 could get "glitches" in. Lighting would be more than a "glitch". While the network does seem to have it "hang". I would rate the video & audio as outputs & not inputs in "normal" functioning.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> OK, you got me there. The phone line for sure. I was mostly thinking of how the HR-20 could get "glitches" in. Lighting would be more than a "glitch". While the network does seem to have it "hang". I would rate the video & audio as outputs & not inputs in "normal" functioning.


Yep, but any I/O is vulnerable to lightning damage. The only one worth considering (for the purposes of your discussion) was the addition of the phone line. I just wanted to make the point since you mentioned the ups...many of which have phone line protection built in.

BTW, I'm not using the sat line surge protection in my system...I had it connected and the first thing the installer did was disconnect it. He said in his experience they had been the source of a ton of problems (not properly passing the sat signal). Since my dish is well protected and low, I've not been concerned.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hasan said:


> Yep, but any I/O is vulnerable to lightning damage. The only one worth considering (for the purposes of your discussion) was the addition of the phone line. I just wanted to make the point since you mentioned the ups...many of which have phone line protection built in.
> BTW, I'm not using the sat line surge protection in my system...I had it connected and the first thing the installer did was disconnect it. He said in his experience they had been the source of a ton of problems (not properly passing the sat signal). Since my dish is well protected and low, I've not been concerned.


When it comes to lighting strikes...all bets are off [and I'm going to go hide...] :lol:


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## SG24 (Jul 13, 2006)

So would you all recommend just doing this "reset everything" right after I get my box installed or wait to see if there are problems first?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

SG24 said:


> So would you all recommend just doing this "reset everything" right after I get my box installed or wait to see if there are problems first?


No need unless you've had the box for some times thru multiple upgrades and it's having a problem. If it's brand new it's fresh and it will get the latest update soon after it's connected. You should be fine.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I am coming in here late....
> So here is the question: is it worth limping along with it mis-behaving or to "bite the bullet" and go for the complete flushing out? If you do, you have a "fresh box" that will retain the current software and has shown to behave afterwords. FWIW..


For now, due to the HUGE hassle I mentioned before, I'll hold off. We re-did the series link for Medium last night to hopefully get rid of the blank recording problem. That's the only show we've had this problem with in quite a long time. We've also changed the pattern in which we delete a show and go back to live TV. The wife and I discussed this last night in great detail... and for now if the only problems we have is a couple lockups, that's better than blank recordings. Hopefully changing the delete-recording-to-live-TV pattern will help that. If those don't help, then we'll go through the utter hell of reformatting the HR20 and call D* to get some freebies for all the pain and suffering.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

SG24 said:


> So would you all recommend just doing this "reset everything" right after I get my box installed or wait to see if there are problems first?


ABSOLUTELY! Do it now.....

Do it before you go through the work of setting up your series links and channel lists.

There's absolutley no reason not to do it at that point because it's perfectly painless and you lose nothing. It hurts nothing and could potentially fix a lot of things.

The last thing you want is to find out you need a reset later down the road with a box full of precious recordings, a prioritizer list 40 shows deep and a nicely customized channel list.


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## Tiebmbr (Mar 27, 2007)

jorossian said:


> ABSOLUTELY! Do it now......


Isn't this done at the factory before being sealed in the box?


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Tiebmbr said:


> Isn't this done at the factory before being sealed in the box?


One would think!!!


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## Tiebmbr (Mar 27, 2007)

g4jedi said:


> One would think!!!


BTW...love that signature, Jedi!


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

It would have to be, but it's certainly possible shipping, x-rays, scanning and other obstacles the machine hurdles over from factory to your livingroom could have you starting off on the wrong foot.

As I said - It's painless to do for a brand new box so might as well just in case.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The "only" real pain to doing a reset everything, is losing your recordings. Series links need a couple of days to have the guide data.
The whole process might take 30 min.
If you get a new receiver, there is NO reason I know of to do a reset everything, since it is coming in just the same condition.
If it is a "refurb/recycled" receiver, it would be the first thing I'd do [have done] after the software download, to return it to the above [^^^^] state [new out of the box].


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jorossian said:


> It would have to be, but it's certainly possible shipping, x-rays, scanning and other obstacles the machine hurdles over from factory to your livingroom could have you starting off on the wrong foot.As I said - It's painless to do for a brand new box so might as well just in case.


If I were to follow this line of thought...I would need to get my tinfoil hat on again.


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## SG24 (Jul 13, 2006)

Well I guess I'll do it when I get it just to take it out of the equation. I have no idea if they're sending me a new box or a refurb yet. Whatever the installer brings.

10 days before that (though I knocked 2 weeks off by changing my date on the website today). lol.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

There's simply no reason not to. It's the ONE time in the several years in which you'll own it where it will be completely painless to do. I wish I had done it when I'd gotten mine. I was getting IKOD's from day2 and there were no power issues that week. Unfortunately I spent the first 2 days like everyone else does - populating my prioritizer, setting up my channel lists. My problems continued on for over a month with no change regardless of the software update.

Finally I'd had it and did what I should have done from day one.

I lost the first episodes of Lost, Survivor, my favorite NFL team's last and only game of the season in HD (Lions vs Cowboys) and several other programs for good. I dumped most of them in SD to my DVD-recorder but they are a LONG way from being the crystal clear HD they were when they were on the HR-20.

Again - WHY NOT?

Do it even if the odds it will matter are negligable. It's the ONE and ONLY time you can do it without any sacrifice of time or media whatsoever.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jorossian said:


> Again - WHY NOT?
> Do it even if the odds it will matter are negligable. It's the ONE and ONLY time you can do it without any sacrifice of time or media whatsoever.


I don't have a "not" to your "why", nor do I see the need to your "why", for a new receiver.
I have "twins". Both were new, & one I reset everything after a bunch of bad software & the other came "new" at this time & I didn't. Both work the same now for...going on three months.
While I can agree that there is nothing to lose..there isn't anything to gain either...
I work [deal] with logic & use it to guide my actions. Otherwise things would truly be "illogical".


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

I also work and deal with logic. I am the head of an optical metrology lab in a lens manufacturing business where the vast majority of our sales is are in injection molded aspheric plastic lenses. Root cause analysis is our bible. When you make a blanket statement like "there is nothing to gain" with the data supplied from my own user experience it's fairly obvious that logic is on my side


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jorossian said:


> I also work and deal with logic. I am the head of an optical metrology lab in a lens manufacturing business where the vast majority of our sales is are in injection molded aspheric plastic lenses. Root cause analysis is our bible. When you make a blanket statement like "there is nothing to gain" with the data supplied from my own user experience it's fairly obvious that logic is on my side


Think what you may. 
I've been working with this type hardware for thirty plus years, so I do have a fairly good idea of what is going on in these boxes. YMMV
This is not a contest. 
Just statements from experience.


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## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok - I have to admit, the "reset everything" fix is a new term to me. I've heard of the Reset (from the menu), the Red Button Reset and the ReFormat. 

What exactly is the "Reset Everything?"

Also, on of the posters early on in this thread suggested to record the disk to full after the reset - then delete everything. Why and what would that do?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Slip Jigs said:


> Ok - I have to admit, the "reset everything" fix is a new term to me. I've heard of the Reset (from the menu), the Red Button Reset and the ReFormat.
> 
> What exactly is the "Reset Everything?"
> 
> Also, on of the posters early on in this thread suggested to record the disk to full after the reset - then delete everything. Why and what would that do?


If you go into the menu where you can do a reset there is also a reset everything. By doing this it fixed some major problems some times but it clears everything. When you do this it re-downloads the newest software and when it starts up it is like when you first got the unit. You will have no record shows. You will have to set all of your series list again. You have to go through the satellite setup again and any other configuration that you have done to the unit. It is a pain to do because you have to go all through that again. But I had a R15 awhile back that would not change channels. The screen showed that the channel was channing as I was pressing the buttons but never changed. The record light would come on like it was suppose to but was not really recording anything. So after a reset everything it work perfect again.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Slip Jigs said:


> Ok - I have to admit, the "reset everything" fix is a new term to me. I've heard of the Reset (from the menu), the Red Button Reset and the ReFormat.
> 
> What exactly is the "Reset Everything?"
> 
> Also, on of the posters early on in this thread suggested to record the disk to full after the reset - then delete everything. Why and what would that do?


Reset EVerything is on the reset menu and it does a "full format" of the hard drive, and resets all settings to factory defaults...it gives you a "clean start", much like formatting a hard drive does....except the base operating system still resides in firmware, so you can immediately download new firmware after "cleaning" and get the latest ready to go.

When you do this, you have to start over as if the machine were being turned on for installation the first time.

I think the theory of filling up the hard drive was an idea to make the formatting cover most of the drive (if for some reason the format didn't work like a computer hard drive and only formatted "used" sectors). I doubt if this is the case, but no one but D* knows for sure.

If I had a box that was giving me consistent problems with the same firmware that 80% or more other users were doing pretty well with, I would be doing a "Reset Everything" at the very first opportunity. How did Einstein define insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results.

Before I would request/return an HR20, I would try the reformat (Reset Everything).


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## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

My problems are not as bad, but they have certainly resurreted themselves with this latest software update...building up to the dreaded pixelation to gray screen to searching for sat signal during the last 10 minutes of Lost last night. 

In addition, got a black screen recording on the first 2 minutes of Idol last night....however, fast forwarding in 4 minutes fixed that issue.

Both these issues have plaqued me depending on the software update and from the looks of this thread, my calls to D* will likely lead to a hard reformat (which I too, have not yet done).

I guess I dont get how that will help, but I will give it a try as I do not have more than 3-4 shows that we need to watch stored on the HR20...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Now maybe things have changed in the past couple of months but:
1) the software isn't stored on the disk, but in chips on the board [much like BIOS on your motherboard].
2) the "reset everything" doesn't re-download the software.
3) What it does seem to do is very much like "clearing" your BIOS by moving the jumper on your motherboard, this resets the motherboard chips back to default settings.
4) The hard drive is "quick" formatted [in PC terms] as the 300 GB drive completes this much faster than a "full" format takes.
5) the front panel reformat "only" clears the drive, and not the chips on the board.

After some discussion with D* tier #2 tech, the reset everything is the best way to reset your receiver, & the front panel reformat is for when you can't get into the setup menu to do a reset everything [as in if your receiver is "hung" at the welcome screen].

On the worst mis-behaving receivers I've done the reset everything & then followed it with a front panel reformat, after going through the setup guide [again], but before setting up my series links. FWIW: I hope this will help as to what is really happening.


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## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

^^When you say front panel reformat - do you mean a red button reset?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cookpr said:


> ^^When you say front panel reformat - do you mean a red button reset?


OH no... I mean a reformat of the disk.....press the record button AND the down arrow on the front panel & hold for 10 sec.
The RBR is very much like [or just like] the restart button on your computer [forced reboot].
This two button "task" is much more "dramatic" and should only be done knowing you will *LOSE EVERYTHING* on you disk.


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## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

Sorry, again, for the JV questions...

Is the front panel, two button task, reformat the same as the hard 'reset everything' you select via the menus on screen?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cookpr said:


> Sorry, again, for the JV questions...
> Is the front panel, two button task, reformat the same as the hard 'reset everything' you select via the menus on screen?


I thought post 72 said it, but.....
The reset everything [from the setup menu] does more than the front panel reformat.
There are memory chips on the boards that don't get cleared doing a disk reformat, but do get cleared with a reset everything.
Now I very much like to help members get the receivers to behave. If you need for help, send me a PM & I'll work with you or walk you through it. No problem...


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

VOS - a question please.

You say that the reset everything clears memory that is not cleared by a reformat. You also say that a reset everything does also reformat. I have never seen any "official" (aka via Earl) information that substantiates this, and would like to know what you base your statement on.

I'm not challenging you, I really would like to know the differences between a reformat and a reset everything, and what you say may very well be accurate - but I've yet to see that information "validated" if you will.

Can you provide any additional information regarding the two processes and how they differ?

Thanks,

Carl


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carl6 said:


> VOS - a question please.
> You say that the reset everything clears memory that is not cleared by a reformat. You also say that a reset everything does also reformat. I have never seen any "official" (aka via Earl) information that substantiates this, and would like to know what you base your statement on.
> I'm not challenging you, I really would like to know the differences between a reformat and a reset everything, and what you say may very well be accurate - but I've yet to see that information "validated" if you will.
> Can you provide any additional information regarding the two processes and how they differ?
> ...


Gladly... I can't have something without "playing with it". It just in my nature.
I've pushed just about every button there just "to see".
Here's what I've "seen":
The front panel reformat clears the disk, where "my" settings are for series links, history [IIRC], program recordings, etc. What it doesn't do is change the "setup info" [i.e. my zip code, TV type, resolutions, native on/off, etc.].
Now the reset everything, returns the receiver back to just as it came "out of the box", where it needs to step through the setup guide [again] & I need to input my zip code, and so forth...
What it does keep is the current software [eprom/flash ?], but everything else...gone.
There is also a "reset defaults" that deletes a folder [directory] on the disk [series links, etc.] but I think still keeps the recordings. [It's been a while since I did this & didn't seem to do much other than lose my series links].
So I've taken "what I've seen" & added it to "what I know" & tried to get "an idea".
Does this help?
Did I miss anything?
Can I help with more?


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## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

So - and let's beat this horse even dedder - 

Does the Reset everything actually format the disk, or does it just erase and delete everything?


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> There is also a "reset defaults" that deletes a folder [directory] on the disk [series links, etc.] but I think still keeps the recordings. [It's been a while since I did this & didn't seem to do much other than lose my series links].


So, you can actually do a reset to defaults that DOESN'T lose recorded shows? (other than a RBR of course) Please explain what the point of this type of reset. Reason I ask... if this kind of reset actually can fix things like lockups, but not erase recorded shows, I would be very interested. Sure, we might have to redo all of our series links etc... but that's better than losing EVERYTHING.

Note: We have not gotten a lockup since we changed the pattern of deleting a recorded show and going to live TV. Knock on wood...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Slip Jigs said:


> So - and let's beat this horse even dedder -
> 
> Does the Reset everything actually format the disk, or does it just erase and delete everything?


I've got nothing against :beatdeadhorse: 
Yes the reset everything does reformat the disk too. Now the reformats aren't [or don't seem to be] anything more than a "quick format" in PC terms, where just the file table(s) are deleted. There is nothing that looks like a "disk scan" that happens. FWIW.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> So, you can actually do a reset to defaults that DOESN'T lose recorded shows? (other than a RBR of course) Please explain what the point of this type of reset. Reason I ask... if this kind of reset actually can fix things like lockups, but not erase recorded shows, I would be very interested. Sure, we might have to redo all of our series links etc... but that's better than losing EVERYTHING.
> Note: We have not gotten a lockup since we changed the pattern of deleting a recorded show and going to live TV. Knock on wood...


Yes, if you look under reset, there is "reset defaults". I haven't used it for several months now so honestly I don't remember more that "it didn't do much more than the RBR". The SLs were gone & "I think" the recording were left.
I wasn't too impressed with it, so I've only used it once with "limited" appeal o me.
Please don't take what I've posted in this post as "gospel". I didn't see anything is was good for that I couldn't do easier myself.
The "real key" is getting the chips cleared, which can only be done with the reset everything. I wish I could get the chips cleared & not format the disk, but it doesn't work that way.


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## An-Echo-Star (Jan 8, 2007)

Face it guys the HR20 is a complete bust. Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting your money. Get E* and the ViP622, it's fantastic. Once again D* promises something great (like 150 ch in HD by year end) and can't deliver. The HR20 is clearly an inferior product.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

An-Echo-Star said:


> Face it guys the HR20 is a complete bust. Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting your money. Get E* and the ViP622, it's fantastic. Once again D* promises something great (like 150 ch in HD by year end) and can't deliver. The HR20 is clearly an inferior product.


one person's opinion.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

An-Echo-Star said:


> Face it guys the HR20 is a complete bust. Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting your money. Get E* and the ViP622, it's fantastic. Once again D* promises something great (like 150 ch in HD by year end) and can't deliver. The HR20 is clearly an inferior product.


Ummm, ok. So a couple guys having a problem in this thread means it's a bust. Yeaaaaa....... :hurah:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, ok. So a couple guys having a problem in this thread means it's a bust. Yeaaaaa....... :hurah:


Now you don't think the user name might be a clue to the agenda do you? :lol:


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Maybe I live under a rock... WTF is E* and the ViP622?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> Maybe I live under a rock... WTF is E* and the ViP622?


E* is for Echostar (Dish Network) and ViP622 is there HD DVR.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

And now the user name may make some more sense..
nine posts in three months....


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## rminsk (Dec 5, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, ok. So a couple guys having a problem in this thread means it's a bust. Yeaaaaa....... :hurah:


It is a lot more than a couple of guys...


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

BMoreRavens said:


> E* is for Echostar (Dish Network) and ViP622 is there HD DVR.


Ah... big deal. I have experienced Dish Network at my Aunt's house. It was HORRIBLE! She hated it and had tons of problems. After a month of it, she switched the D*.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Don't take the bait, these kind of posts don't deserve a substantive reply. Each to his own. If the guy is happy, good for him. He has absolutely nothing to add to an HR20 forum, and his advertisement doesn't deserve much notice....yawn.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

First off, thank you for a comprehensive answer.

I was able to put the same question to an engineering resource at DirecTV, and his response was much the same as yours - the reset everything is the more comprehensive procedure, and is the preferred and recommended troubleshooting procedure as long as you are able to get to the menu. The reformat (button pushing process) is only recommended if you are unable to get to a menu reset.

This is true for both the R15 and the HR20.

Carl



veryoldschool said:


> Gladly... I can't have something without "playing with it". It just in my nature.
> I've pushed just about every button there just "to see".
> Here's what I've "seen":
> The front panel reformat clears the disk, where "my" settings are for series links, history [IIRC], program recordings, etc. What it doesn't do is change the "setup info" [i.e. my zip code, TV type, resolutions, native on/off, etc.].
> ...


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

rminsk said:


> It is a lot more than a couple of guys...


Yep. There's women out there with HR20 problems too! 

We've pretty much given up on the unit for a while in hopes that more stability comes with time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Marcia_Brady said:


> Yep. There's women out there with HR20 problems too!
> 
> We've pretty much given up on the unit for a while in hopes that more stability comes with time.


Well if you've "given up", you might do the reset everything and see what then happens. FWIW


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Well if you've "given up", you might do the reset everything and see what then happens. FWIW


Definately. If you've given up to the point you don't use it anymore, reset everything/format. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## Tiebmbr (Mar 27, 2007)

E*....A quick glance at the -622 forum does confirm that the grass is NOT always greener...but go with whatever makes you happy.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tiebmbr said:


> E*....A quick glance at the -622 forum does confirm that the grass is NOT always greener...but go with whatever makes you happy.


From my experience with most of these "things"..

The grass is always just a different shade of green... and once you get there... you just realize it is still just grass....


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> From my experience with most of these "things"..
> 
> The grass is always just a different shade of green... and once you get there... you just realize it is still just grass....


S O S [same old...]


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

VOS -

THANKS for the info on the front panel reformat! (RECORD-DOWN buttons) I didn't know about that until now. If there ever comes a time that my receiver acts up again I'm going to add that to my "excorcism" ritual right after the "reset evertything". Wish I knew about it a month ago... oh well luckily I didn't need it.

I knew the reset everything did nothing but a quick file table format (it took no longer than a regular reboot) and was wondering why there was absolutely no way to do a complete disk format in case there were bad sectors on the disk. 

Now I know there is a way. Very cool.

My receiver is problem free now and I think the majority of people experiencing issues would resolve them by following the advice in this thread. I'm sure there a lot of folks experiencing hardware problems too, but based on the types of issues usually brought up I bet most of them are permanently fixable by giving their units a complete "enema" of sorts and then plugging them into a cheap $50 UPS. I only wish DTV would supply DVR owners with UPS. I'm sure with the volume buying power they'd have they could get them just as cheaply, if not moreso, than what it costs them to install a WB68 Multi-Switch.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

An-Echo-Star said:


> Face it guys the HR20 is a complete bust. Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting your money. Get E* and the ViP622, it's fantastic. Once again D* promises something great (like 150 ch in HD by year end) and can't deliver. The HR20 is clearly an inferior product.


Yeah and it's far more complicated to use than the HR20. My in-laws have one and never really use the DVR features. They only have E* for the Chinese programming that D* lacks.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> From my experience with most of these "things"..
> 
> The grass is always just a different shade of green... and once you get there... you just realize it is still just grass....


Unless it's _very good grass_ and then...oh wait...did I really say that?:grin:


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Yeah and it's far more complicated to use than the HR20. My in-laws have one and never really use the DVR features. They only have E* for the Chinese programming that D* lacks.


Same reason my parents have E* while I've always had D*. The lack of the Italian programming (mainly RAI International) from DTV is puzzling. Every cable company as well as D* carries it as it's hugely popular in the Northeast. Yet D* doesn't carry it and instead offers a horrible alternative which no Italian American actually wants - SKY TG24. Basically an Italian 24 news network. Meanwhile cable and E* customers get the best of Italian culture, sports and entertainmet programming as well as a nightly news broadcast all in one channel. Pisses me off. D* wastes valuable tronsponder space on TG24 which obviously interests no one in it's target audience and passes on the one channel that everyone in that target audience loves and ultimately often choose their service provider by. How can a company that is so superior to E* in almost every way make a boneheaded choice like that?

The HR20 is fine and will ultimately pass the same hurdles E*'s VIP unit had to - both DVRs had rough starts. D*'s greater issue down the road will be to concentrate on their new programming QUALITY rather than simply VOLUME down the the road. 15 new channels that no one wants won't equal the impact of 5 new channels that a lot of current and potential new subscribers do want.

Major props to D* for carrying Setanta Sports though!


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

jorossian said:


> VOS -
> 
> THANKS for the info on the front panel reformat! (RECORD-DOWN buttons) I didn't know about that until now. If there ever comes a time that my receiver acts up again I'm going to add that to my "excorcism" ritual right after the "reset evertything". Wish I knew about it a month ago... oh well luckily I didn't need it.
> 
> ...


If our HR20 wasn't 50% full or recordings, I would do a reset all in a heartbeat. Fortunately, we've been rock solid all week. Medium recorded fine. And no lockups now that we changed our delete-recording-to-live-TV pattern. Just to clarify that in case any D* engineers happen to see this post. We were getting a lot of lockups when we would do this technique:

1. recorded show ends
2. press info button
3. choose "more info"
4. choose "delete"

Then when the HR20 went to live TV, it would lock up. You could watch the channel it was on just fine, but none of the buttons on the remote or the front of the unit would work. Now we are doing this:

1. recorded show ends
2. press exit button
3. live TV
4. press the menu button
5. go to playlist
6. choose the show
7. press dash to delete

This seems to be working. Knock on wood. Notice how we only have to press dash ONCE though? Everywhere I have read you have to press it twice. What's up with that?


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

g4jedi said:


> If our HR20 wasn't 50% full or recordings, I would do a reset all in a heartbeat. Fortunately, we've been rock solid all week. Medium recorded fine. And no lockups now that we changed our delete-recording-to-live-TV pattern. Just to clarify that in case any D* engineers happen to see this post. We were getting a lot of lockups when we would do this technique:
> 
> 1. recorded show ends
> 2. press info button
> ...


I still need to do 2 dashes. Sounds like you have some issues with your remote. Are you using RF or IR? Button bounce has been an issue with RF for some.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

IR

I'll have to test it on the Harmony to see if it's the same thing. See... the wife uses the HR20 remote, and I use the "master" remote... the Harmony


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

g4jedi said:


> 1. recorded show ends
> 2. press info button
> 3. choose "more info"
> 4. choose "delete"


Wow, I didn't even know you could do it that way and I've never seen it posted to do it that way. I think you stumbled on a backdoor way in to delete and I'll bet the programmers don't even know it's there or never tested it.

I delete programs in 2 ways:
1) When the program ends you get a choice right there to delete or keep. Have to be at the end of the recording though. If I'm near the end I just FFW3 real quick and get the prompt.
2) Hit "stop" (not exit) and you'll be presented with the main menu with delete as one of the choices. I think this works though only if you started it from the playlist however.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Wow, I didn't even know you could do it that way and I've never seen it posted to do it that way. I think you stumbled on a backdoor way in to delete and I'll bet the programmers don't even know it's there or never tested it.
> 
> I delete programs in 2 ways:
> 1) When the program ends you get a choice right there to delete or keep. Have to be at the end of the recording though. If I'm near the end I just FFW3 real quick and get the prompt.
> 2) Hit "stop" (not exit) and you'll be presented with the main menu with delete as one of the choices. I think this works though only if you started it from the playlist however.


Nah... it's no secret back door. And actually, the only reason we deleted recordings that way was because we kept getting lockups several months ago when using your #1 technique. That was a well known bug at the time and we started doing it the other way and got stuck in the habbit of that. It was a well documented work-around at the time, but we sort of got stuck in the habbit of doing it that way. Now it seems the work-around causes the lockup.... so far.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

UPDATE:

So far so good. Medium has been recording fine since re-doing the series link. Not a single lockup since changing the way we delete recorded shows. I know we're still early in the game.... but things are looking up...


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

Eiderlon said:


> Join the club - If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: WHY DID I EVER GET RID OF MY HR10-250 TiVo unit!!!???


Gave mine away. Don't miss it. Don't need it.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2007)

An-Echo-Star said:


> Face it guys the HR20 is a complete bust. Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting your money. Get E* and the ViP622, it's fantastic. Once again D* promises something great (like 150 ch in HD by year end) and can't deliver. The HR20 is clearly an inferior product.


Right, a complete bust. That's why they continue to fly off the shelves.  In case you can't tell from the posts in this forum, most of the problems with the HR20 have been resolved by software upgrades. Mine works great and has been rock-solid stable for at least a couple of months.

BTW, DirecTV has never promised to have 150 HD channels by the end of this year. But it looks like they'll have a lot more than you'll be getting.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

So, LONG time TiVo fanatic here (own 2 standalones and 5 DirecTiVos). I read all the posts of ALL the websites about ALL the HD DVRs that were available when I decided to finally upgrade to HD.

I decided NOT to go with the TiVo S3 because it would limit me to cable, and I didn't want to lay out the $600 up front. So, I was basically looking at a provider supplied DVR. I have available to me at my home Cablevision, DirecTV, Dish Network and Verizon FiOS. Cablevision's DVRs, judging by online posts and personal experience of my neighbors, are totally worthless (missed recordings, lockups, lost recordings, etc.). Verizon has some cool equipment (a Home Media Center DVR that can send recordings to STBs in other rooms) but it too is flaky. The TiVo S3 has its share of problems as well. The Dish and DirecTV DVRs various foibles have been documented here and on other sites.

Bottom line, ALL the HD DVRs have bugs that still need to be worked out.

So, I decided to take the path of least resistance and get a HR20. I was able to do that at essentially no cost for the first few months. To hedge my bets, I kept one of my DirecTiVos hooked up to the new HD TV, and have kept all the season passes recording on it. 

After 6 weeks of having the HR20 I have to say I have almost NEVER used the DirecTiVo. The HR20 has recorded everything I've asked it to. It has not locked up (expect when I downloaded the current CE release - since rolling back to 145 I've been fine), it has not dumped recordings. Sure, there is room for improvement, and all the issues have been captured on the feature request threads. It is different than a TiVo, but not worse (nor is it better).

In sum, I have been quite pleasantly surprised by the HR20, and feel I made the right choice. Perhaps I'm fortunate to have come to the HR20 "party" later than some. If you had lived through the initial growing pains it may color your view of the current state of affairs. But I honestly believe that the HR20 is quite a serviceable unit, and look forward to having to add on external storage to record all the HD programming that will be available by year's end.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

*UPDATE:*
Three weeks later... Not one single lost recording of Medium since we re-did the series link. Even better... not ONE SINGLE lockup since we changed our pattern of deleting a show after we watch it. In regards to the lockups, I think D* needs to take not of this:

*Before:* At the end of a recorded show, hit "info", "more info" and then "delete" would cause lockups.

*Now:* At the end of a recorded show, hit exit, go back to live TV, wait a few seconds, hit "Menu" find the show you just watched, press dash dash. Not one single lockup since we have been doning this.

So... Are we glad we tried the above steps? Yes we are! Are we glad that we didn't take other's recommendations and do a "reset all"??? HELL YEAH!!!

....ssssshhhhh.... be quiet though... I don't want our HR20-700 to hear me. It might decide to throw me another curve ball!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> *UPDATE:*
> Three weeks later... Not one single lost recording of Medium since we re-did the series link. Even better... not ONE SINGLE lockup since we changed our pattern of deleting a show after we watch it. In regards to the lockups, I think D* needs to take not of this:
> 
> *Before:* At the end of a recorded show, hit "info", "more info" and then "delete" would cause lockups.
> ...


I hit "Stop" then select delete. never locks up, FWIW


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I just FF to end and use the popup delete..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> I just FF to end and use the popup delete..


That works too... [without any lockups]


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

houskamp said:


> I just FF to end and use the popup delete..


Way back when, that used to cause lockups for us (and others), so we started doing the "info" then "more info" to avoid it. I'm pretty sure it was a documented glitch back then. Earl, if you're looking at this post, do you know if this is still a problem for some people? Needless to say, we're a little leery of trying it. :grin:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I always hit Stop and then choose delete from the menu unless I'm already at the end and get the prompt at which point I choose delete from that menu. Never had a lockup for going on 8 months now.

Also not sure people know this but if you want to stop a recording in progress hit the stop button and you'll be presented with a menu of options which includes "stop recording and keep" or "stop recording and delete".


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## atlantamoi (Apr 5, 2007)

I've had the HR20 for a couple of weeks now and it's been fairly stable. I've noticed sometimes I have to enter a channel three times before the DVR will change the channel. Weird. 

Also, I only see how quickly I'm FF or rewinding a show on the status bar for HD shows. Not SD. Maybe that's normal?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

atlantamoi said:


> I've had the HR20 for a couple of weeks now and it's been fairly stable. I've noticed sometimes I have to enter a channel three times before the DVR will change the channel. Weird.
> 
> Also, I only see how quickly I'm FF or rewinding a show on the status bar for HD shows. Not SD. Maybe that's normal?


The channel Channing is a bug in the software. A lot of people have reported this problem but I have not had it.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

We've only had this "thing" for 4 days now. I WANT MY TIVO BACK! I was reluctant to give it up and all my fears have been realized. UGH!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Babalax said:


> We've only had this "thing" for 4 days now. I WANT MY TIVO BACK! I was reluctant to give it up and all my fears have been realized. UGH!


What fears? Explain and perhaps we can help you.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

atlantamoi said:


> I've had the HR20 for a couple of weeks now and it's been fairly stable. I've noticed sometimes I have to enter a channel three times before the DVR will change the channel. Weird.
> 
> Also, I only see how quickly I'm FF or rewinding a show on the status bar for HD shows. Not SD. Maybe that's normal?


Hit enter after entering the numbers and it will lock in. It is a pain but it does work


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Steve Robertson said:


> Hit enter after entering the numbers and it will lock in. It is a pain but it does work


What's funny is I've never had a problem with this. But then I noticed that both me and my wife always hit enter after putting in the channel number. We've been doing it by habit for years so it's been "natural" to us.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> What's funny is I've never had a problem with this. But then I noticed that both me and my wife always hit enter after putting in the channel number. We've been doing it by habit for years so it's been "natural" to us.


Well I guess you are 1 step ahead of the rest of us I still forget sometimes but to me it is a pain when I do forget andhave to re enter the numbers.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> What fears? Explain and perhaps we can help you.


Thanks. Initially, the fear of losing Tivo. The simplicity of it. The familiarity of it. 
We had D*Tivo Series 2 for the past several years and loved it. We just got an HD TV and the HR20 was our only choice. I don't like the changes. There are too many steps to do things that were very simple with Tivo. Never missed a recording with Tivo.

I know, it's only TV. I need to get over it because I have no other choice. Except for my patient husband to hook up my Tivo as backup. But then I won't have shows in HD. 

My husband steered me here to find others in the same boat so maybe I could find info and vent.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Babalax said:


> There are too many steps to do things that were very simple with Tivo.


Actually it's typically the other way around, HR20 is *less* steps then the Tivo. 

If you've got some examples perhaps we can point you to shortcuts you may not be aware of. Recording for example on the HR20 is typically 2-3 button presses, on the Tivo it's many more then that (and a lot slower).

And here is a great thread to get you started: Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Babalax,

You should have a look at the Undocumented Tips & Tricks thread. It sounds like your biggest problem right now is getting over the learning curve of the different User Interface (UI). With TiVo, my number one complaint was how slow it was adjusting Season Passes. I do not have that complaint at all with the HR20. I've found the HR20 menu system to, in general, be rather fast.

Please poke around in the forum here to get answers, and feel free to ask if you cannot find it quickly.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

My parents have the non-HD HR15 DVD. They too hated switching from TiVo to this new DVR. Like us, we were a TiVo family for YEARS. They're biggest complaint sounds similar to yours. It's no nearly as intuitive as the Tivo and, as my Dad said, "the remote flat out sucks" and "what's with the non-labelled colored buttons?". However, like my wife and I, my parents did see the advantages... it is WAY faster than TiVO and the picture quality is MUCH better as well. Point is, once you get past this initial shock, you will get used to this new DVR. As long as you have a stable unit, things should go smoothly for you.


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## gabe23 (Mar 7, 2007)

Babalax said:


> My husband steered me here to find others in the same boat so maybe I could find info and vent.


Coming here is the best thing you could have done! I also loved my DirecTivos, but honestly, I can't stand using them now. They are so sloooow. Like others have said, print out the Tips and Tricks document, and sit down one night and just play around with the remote. It will only a day or two to figure out the interface, and I expect that you'll like the HR20 much more after that time. Sure, there are still the occasional glitches with recording and playback, but you've got the considerable resources of this great forum to help you with that stuff IF it happens. Good luck!


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## rahchgo (Feb 2, 2007)

Don't hate your HR20. Go to the HR20 Information and Resources Forum which is a sub-forum of HR20 Q&A. Follow this link:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=792149&postcount=1

Find the links for the 101 Undocumented HR20 Tips and Tricks and Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide and print the pdf attachments.

Like making new friends, we all have our quirks. When you understand the differences, the HR20 is easy to like.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

Thanks to all the above for the information! You are kind and very helpful. 
I am going through the Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide for answers right now.

And to Doug "_It sounds like your biggest problem right now is getting over the learning curve of the different User Interface (UI).
_"
Unfortunately my biggest problem right now is going through menopause. Heaven help me!


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## gabe23 (Mar 7, 2007)

Babalax said:


> Unfortunately my biggest problem right now is going through menopause. Heaven help me!


LOL! Shhhh, don't say that too loud, or soon someone will be blaming that on the HR20, too!


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

gabe23 said:


> LOL! Shhhh, don't say that too loud, or soon someone will be blaming that on the HR20, too!


Teehee - sure wish I could!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Babalax said:


> Thanks to all the above for the information! You are kind and very helpful.
> I am going through the Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide for answers right now.
> 
> And to Doug "_It sounds like your biggest problem right now is getting over the learning curve of the different User Interface (UI)._"
> Unfortunately my biggest problem right now is going through menopause. Heaven help me!


Never let us forget the big picture.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

g4jedi said:


> My parents have the non-HD HR15 DVD. They too hated switching from TiVo to this new DVR. Like us, we were a TiVo family for YEARS. They're biggest complaint sounds similar to yours. It's no nearly as intuitive as the Tivo and, as my Dad said, "the remote flat out sucks" and "what's with the non-labelled colored buttons?". However, like my wife and I, my parents did see the advantages... it is WAY faster than TiVO and the picture quality is MUCH better as well. Point is, once you get past this initial shock, you will get used to this new DVR. As long as you have a stable unit, things should go smoothly for you.


"Initial shock" is a good way of putting it! I am trying to adapt.
Now that I've read the tips and tricks info and found some shortcuts it is getting a little better. 
Unfortunately for us though, it is definitely NOT faster than Tivo  
Maybe we had a newer model...?
I appreciate everyone's input!


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

Just a quick update. I read through the tips and tricks and survival guide info that you so kindly pointed me toward. Very helpful. 
We knew all the shortcuts in Tivo so I still find that the DVR takes another step or two to do what I want to do. I can deal with that. I am adapting... slowly.
The thing that bugs me is the delay when we change channels. It is as slooooow as molasses! We get a black screen before we get the picture. Never experienced that with Tivo. Many of you have said that Tivo was slower, but that is just not the case for us.
And I _really_ miss the dual buffer. I have found the thread regarding that issue so I will join the discussion there. 
I *AM* trying not to hate. Resistance is futile!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Babalax said:


> Unfortunately for us though, it is definitely NOT faster than Tivo


Remember that an HD program is almost five times bigger than a SD program, so it will take a bit more time to "sort out" everything. FWIW


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Babalax said:


> The thing that bugs me is the delay when we change channels. It is as slooooow as molasses! We get a black screen before we get the picture. Never experienced that with Tivo. Many of you have said that Tivo was slower, but that is just not the case for us.


This is a known issue. You might try changing [in the setup menu] to "native off" as this can speed up the channel changing. You can then use the remote to select what resolution you want to change to.
Again this is more to do with HD [I think] as there are two different resolutions for HD and one for SD. [And then there is how your TV is adjusting to the signals too].


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I hit "Stop" then select delete. never locks up, FWIW


FYI: This doesn't work for us. We hit STOP and it goes back to live TV. There is no menu that asks us if we want to delete.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

g4jedi said:


> FYI: This doesn't work for us. We hit STOP and it goes back to live TV. There is no menu that asks us if we want to delete.


I think this depends on how you start a problem. Click menu, select My Playlist, select Go there. Now choose your program to play. Now when you hit stop you'll be presented with a menu (basically stop takes you back to the last screen you were on, thus the menu with all your options).


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

Hmmm... we rarely start a show that way... since it's an extra step.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I think this depends on how you start a problem. Click menu, select My Playlist, select Go there. Now choose your program to play. Now when you hit stop you'll be presented with a menu (basically stop takes you back to the last screen you were on, thus the menu with all your options).


I don't know of another way to play a recording other than going into the playlist. 

Another thing might also be affecting things is if the remote was "double keying" has this can also give problems too.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Babalax said:


> The thing that bugs me is the delay when we change channels. It is as slooooow as molasses! We get a black screen before we get the picture. Never experienced that with Tivo. Many of you have said that Tivo was slower, but that is just not the case for us.


First, when we are talking about speed of the HR20, we are usually referring to it's functions. Not channel changing. The GUI on the HR20 is so much faster then the Tivo it's not even funny. 

Channel changes: Did you have HD before? If not, realize that channel changes take a bit more time with HD.

Second, do as suggested, turn Native to OFF. Native on will increase channel change time because it's got to search for the right resolution (could take quite a long time if you didn't edit your available resolution list). Then the second part comes down to your TV. How fast is it at syncing up the new resolution.

So try this:
1) Turn Native to OFF
2) Edit your available resolution list to be only what the native resolution of your TV is plus perhaps 480i (and only if you want your TV to upconvert and stretch it for you)

So if your TV is 720p, then have 480i and 720p as your only options. Leave it at 720p most of the time. Channel changes should be quick, less then 3 seconds. When you're watching SD programming, if you want your TV to do "it's thing" and stretch it vs. the HR20 doing the stretching (which is horrible IMO) then simply hit the format button on the remote to switch to 480i. This will cause your TV to resynch so the channel change might be 5-6 seconds. But from that point the channel changes again should be under 3 seconds or so.

Hope that makes sense and good luck.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> Hmmm... we rarely start a show that way... since it's an extra step.


I guess I need to ask you how you do start watching a recording?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't know of another way to play a recording other than going into the playlist.
> 
> Another thing might also be affecting things is if the remote was "double keying" has this can also give problems too.


You can start a show using the mini-menu. When you pull up the menu and select My Playlist it will show your recorded programs right there and if you select one it will automatically play it with no menu inbetween.

But, when you hit Stop it just takes you to live tv since that was the last "menu" you were on before you starting playing the show.

jedi, I know it's an extra step to start playing, I thought so too. But when you consider the more extra steps taken to delete a program after you watched it vs. just hitting stop and selecting delete, it's less steps to bring up the full screen playlist and start playing from there vs. using the mini menu and then when you want to delete you have to go into the full playlist anyway to delete.

At least for me it's less steps to be able to hit stop | Delete.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Remember that an HD program is almost five times bigger than a SD program, so it will take a bit more time to "sort out" everything. FWIW


I DO need to remember that! (Is there a smilie for DOH! ?)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Babalax said:


> I DO need to remember that! (Is there a smilie for DOH! ?)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Babalax said:


> I DO need to remember that! (Is there a smilie for DOH! ?)


Do you know what your TV native resolution is?
If you can post the make & model "we" can find out what settings might be best for you to setup.
HD has a "bunch of stuff" that can be a bit overwhelming at first. So let's take "baby steps" at first and then we can work through the things as you're ready to play with it further.


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> First, when we are talking about speed of the HR20, we are usually referring to it's functions. Not channel changing. The GUI on the HR20 is so much faster then the Tivo it's not even funny.
> 
> Channel changes: Did you have HD before? If not, realize that channel changes take a bit more time with HD.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for the info! You've all been so kind and helpful you have restored my faith in humanity. 
This is our first experience with HD so it's all new. The TV just arrived on Wed. Does it matter that we have a 1080p TV and an H20-100? Just asking.

We did play with Native on and off this morning to see if that made a difference. It was not noticeable. But we will keep trying!

Thank goodness my dear husband is a patient man or I'd be buried in the backyard. :eek2:


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Do you know what your TV native resolution is?
> If you can post the make & model "we" can find out what settings might be best for you to setup.
> HD has a "bunch of stuff" that can be a bit overwhelming at first. So let's take "baby steps" at first and then we can work through the things as you're ready to play with it further.


1080p Sony KDL-40V 2500. 
(LOVE the TV btw!)

Man, you guys are so darned nice and helpful! :blush:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Well, being a 1080p TV, no matter what you do, your TV will be upconverting every signal sent to it. Depending on how good your TV is, this may incur a bit more delay then normal on top of any other normal delay. A cheaper set will probably have a higher delay.

I think you'll basically need to play with it. There is no right answer.

Being 1080p, I'd first try Native Off and the HR20 set to 720p. See how that goes.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Oh, one other thing. I'd assume you're connecting it via HDMI? There are some bugs with HDMI on some TV's and Sony has a few models that have HDMI compatability issues (amazing, Sony wants to do their own thing and not follow standards  )

So another thing to try is a component connection.

I looked up your TV model and it has the cinema 3:2 pulldown feature. Try having that turned off on the input your HR20 is coming in and see if that also makes a difference.

One thing you didn't mention, how long are your channel changes taking? 2-4 seconds isn't unusual being it's a DVR *and* HD and MPEG4 also incurs a little extra overhead. A regular old SD Tivo will only have the DVR overhead part and channel changes of 1-2 seconds are typical.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Babalax said:


> 1080p Sony KDL-40V 2500.
> (LOVE the TV btw!)
> 
> Man, you guys are so darned nice and helpful! :blush:


I think I have it's big brother and love it too.
My setting are: 1080i, 720p, and 480p and I use native on.
There is a 3+ sec delay when changing channels as the Sony needs to buffer "all of those dots" into what the Sony wants to show.
I love the picture & do most of my channel changing through the guide and not the "old surfing" with the up & down channel button.
I'd try these settings and see what [or how] you like them.
BTW: why I use these settings is because each type of program will be sent to the TV for it to make the best picture, without me doing anything but pressing the format button when something is in letterbox SD [otherwise I use the pillarbox for SD].


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## Babalax (Apr 26, 2007)

You guys are awesome. I am making notes and will hand them over to the "big guy" this weekend. I'll be out town until May 10 and I expect everything will be perfect when I get back - LOL!
Thanks much to all of you - have a great weekend!


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