# Another Year without local HD channels



## blackhillsjk (Mar 2, 2012)

Yet another year has gone by with Dish and still no local HD channels for the Rapid City area. Yet another year that all the cable companies and Direct do carry them all. They say we are all very important customers and other areas are not more important than mine....You tell me.....Sigh


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

If its important to YOU, you add the necessary gear to receive them OTA. My locals recently became available in HD via sat, after 6 years waiting....I still use my OTA setup.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

Although I don't know beforehand when new HD channels are going to be released, we have added new local HD channels recently to our channel lineup. I will submit a program request form for local Rapid City locals in HD. Thanks.



blackhillsjk said:


> Yet another year has gone by with Dish and still no local HD channels for the Rapid City area. Yet another year that all the cable companies and Direct do carry them all. They say we are all very important customers and other areas are not more important than mine....You tell me.....Sigh


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

PLEASE! also add a request for HD locals for Lubbock, Texas.

My analysis of the spot beams really does not show a good candidate for us, we are on the edge of the Dallas, Midland and Amarillo spots but there evidently is not a spot for us, but who knows what they could cobble together after all we are more than 200,000 potential subscribers.

I have HD locals via antenna, but it would help when I have multiple things running simultaneously that I want to record and I have to record the local network in SD because I'm already recording another in HD OTA.


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## blackhillsjk (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks for putting in the request for me. Lets hope they actually listen to you....Tell me why I should have to spend extra money to recieve them over the air when I am paying to recieve them from Dish already....If and when I ever get them thru Dish, I will not pay any more for it as I am already paying for them now but not recieving this service. Makes no sense to me since every other provider in the area already has them in HD.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

You are receiving your locals, just not HD.

HD locals are neither promised nor guaranteed.

But we keep on hoping!


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Well try this we are in Youngstown OH and are locals are on the Western Arc 129, but majority of the peple in this area cannot get 129 due to trees. You would think that they would put us on the Eastern Arc. We do have OTA, but we cannot use PTAT.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

OP, if locals in HD are important, and you can't or won't use OTA, why did you get Dish, and why keep it? I say the same to NY customers about wanting SNY MSG and YES.

And aside from installing the antenna, what extra cost? Plus it adds value - an additional tuner.

I hate to break anyone's bubble, but there is no amount of requests that will add local channels in HD. National ones, can happen. The reason is it has nothing to do with Dish wanting to or not wanting to carry them. It is a matter of satellite space that covers your area, and/or agreements with the stations including getting the method of transmission from the channels to Dish. I suspect with the new 61.5 satellite now in place it is likely a greater chance exists for locals to be in HD if they are not now.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

blackhillsjk said:


> Tell me why I should have to spend extra money to recieve them over the air when I am paying to recieve them from Dish already....


I have spent money putting up a powerful antenna and buying the OTA tuner for my 722. That just gets me two HD channels, CBS and Fox. These are high band VHF channels which make it the 25 miles over the hills to my location. The rest of the locals (Binghamton, NY) are on UHF and they do not come in, even with a high end UHF only antenna I bought.

So I also pay for basic cable service just for the locals in HD, though I can't record those.

The SD locals we get on Dish are sort of ok, for SD, except for the NBC station. For some reason that one is in a terribly fuzzy wide screen format stuck inside the 4:3 SD signal, with audio that sounds as if it was coming over a telephone.

I'd switch to DirecTV but I have tons of stuff on my EHD and don't want to give that up.

I'm hoping this situation is fixed soon or I'll just abandon all that EHD stuff and switch to the dark side - which has had all of the locals in HD for over a year now.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

I turned on the TV this morning to suddenly find I'm getting my local channel in HD. (WMUR ABC 9, NH). I say 'channel' because that's the only one in NH. 
Now if they'd finally carry WGBH 2 (Boston public tv) in HD, I could get rid of my OTA antenna. I have been getting ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox in HD from Boston, fortunately. Well, fortunately if they ever had any shows worth watching. The only thing I watch on 9 is local news. But, hey, progress is progress.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

PS - well, I am truly amazed. Along with 9 in HD, WGBH 2 is also HD, as is 11 (NHPTV). Where'd all this new bandwidth come from? Disconnecting my OTA today.


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## blackhillsjk (Mar 2, 2012)

Congrats...maybe someday it will be my turn....It is truly asinine that locals in HD and part time HD sports channels are not a priority for Dish and their customers. I really don't get it. Other than that I really do like Dish alot....honest.


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## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

CCarncross said:


> If its important to YOU, you add the necessary gear to receive them OTA. My locals recently became available in HD via sat, after 6 years waiting....I still use my OTA setup.


The Rapid City market is rather large ... the OP might not be able to get their locals via antenna.


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## blackhillsjk (Mar 2, 2012)

Good point. I actually live in the Lead/Deadwood area of the Black Hills. It is 50 miles from Rapid City. Which I know that some radio stations are actually a challenge to get sometimes.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Why would anybody want to disconnect their OTA antenna?

There are plenty of channels that satellite and cable do not carry, including lots of sub-channels. And, in an emergency (when the weather is bad, when cable TV is down, when the satellite dish is inoperative, when there is no power for the satellite gear....just a battery-operated TV set ) you'll need something. Also, OTA antennas work for FM radio.

Do you take the spare tire out of your car when you don't plan to have a flat?
Take down the mailbox, because you have internet?
Remodel the old kids' room, now that they are all grown? (Never mind...That one just might be a good idea  )


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kenglish said:


> . . . when there is no power for the satellite gear....just a battery-operated TV set )


Do you have a battery operated TV? I understand that they are available (there was a gap between the end of analog and the availability of battery operated TVs).

BTW: I have a generator that keeps my satellite dish running. And ATSC is weak enough that I need an outdoor amplified antenna to get a signal. I suppose I could get a bigger antenna and connect it to a battery operated portable.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

I was just watching a battery-operated ATSC TV a few hours ago. It's one of the ones the news department carries around, and was sitting on a desk.
I've got an old NTSC TV (uses internal "D"-cells) at home. I might dig up a DC-powered (via wall-wart) converter, but the TV sets are only about 50 bucks at Office Max.

Most of the consumer preamps I've seen use 12 volts DC for their power, so I think it wouldn't be too hard to rig something with clip leads and get one going.
Of course, you can also use Ham Radio in an emergency, too.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Most people are not going to bother with a MacGyver solution. If the ATSC tuner battery operated TV is not available off the shelf and useful for more than just emergencies they are unlikely to be owned. Connected to a home antenna would be a stretch. The whole point of having it battery operated would be to make it portable ... tying it to a fixed antenna loses the portability.

By the time I get the MacGyver solution running I could have the generator started.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I bought a portable DVD player from Micro Center that also has a digital/analog OTA tuner in it. It is portable, allthough the battery now doesnt last really long. It does have a car charger. Downside is the screw on ANT it comes w/ isnt as strong as my roof ANT. Basically you need to be within 30 miles of the towers, but it is useful during power outages. Also has an AUX input.

As far as costs go, I've seen some ANT's under $50, an the OTA tuner for Dish can be bought for a lil as $35 (not including shipping). Up front costs but no long term/continual costs.

Question though: directed towards JWKessler (an anyone else who might know), what would happen if you connected your cable tv feed to the OTA tuner input? I know w/ my cable company, Cox, they still provide analog service if you plug the cable straight into a TV, AND w/ a digital tuner, the HD Locals also come in right thru the cable. Verizon FiOS would also work this way too, allthough they may have changed that since the last time I tried it. I know a lot of Comcast systems have done away w/ analog service but has anyone tried to pull in a digital HD OTA signal directly thru it? I'm curious to test this myself but I dont have cable at home, I'd hafta take a receiver over to my folks house to try it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

OTA reception from cable TV would vary so much between providers that it would be easier to say "hook it up and see what you get" instead of trying to guess.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

shadough said:


> Question though: directed towards JWKessler (an anyone else who might know), what would happen if you connected your cable tv feed to the OTA tuner input?
> 
> has anyone tried to pull in a digital HD OTA signal directly thru it? I'm curious to test this myself but I dont have cable at home, I'd hafta take a receiver over to my folks house to try it.


The OTA tuner in Dish receivers (and I assume DirecTV receivers as well,) will only receive and decode over the air digital ATSC broadcasts picked up by an antenna. It will not receive the old NTSC analog TV over the air or from cable nor will it decode the digital QAM signal used by cable operators. If my VIP722 had a QAM tuner I would be a very happy fella!

Most modern TVs and the few outboard tuners you might find will receive both ATSC and QAM digital signals. I don't know why QAM isn't included in the Dish tuner, but perhaps it was omitted intentionally to avoid conflicts with cable operators.

I'm unaware of any third party device that will tune in and record a clear QAM signal without paying a monthly fee. TIVO has a $15/month fee or a one time $500 life time fee. I contacted my cable company about renting one of their DVRs but that won't work unless I subscribe to a full digital package and I'm unwilling to pay for two TV services with lots of duplicate channels.

If you are looking to be really educated on all of these standards here is a good place to start.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/08/hd-101-what-is-atsc-psip-qam-and-8-vsb/


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

James Long said:


> Most people are not going to bother with a MacGyver solution. If the ATSC tuner battery operated TV is not available off the shelf and useful for more than just emergencies they are unlikely to be owned. Connected to a home antenna would be a stretch. The whole point of having it battery operated would be to make it portable ... tying it to a fixed antenna loses the portability.
> 
> By the time I get the MacGyver solution running I could have the generator started.


Most will just wait for FEMA, I 'm afraid.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Funny....I just Google'd "Battery TV Sets", and saw a whole slew of sets in the 19-inch range, with built-in battery backup (like a built-in UPS). Seems that they were all designed for the African markets.
Guess they take their power failures in stride.

The little portable ATSC one's, like the news guys use, are from Office Max.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

JWKessler said:


> I'm unaware of any third party device that will tune in and record a clear QAM signal without paying a monthly fee.


Channel Master TV CM-7400 or HD HomeRun Dual both allow you to tune/record Clear QAM without a monthly fee.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

coolman302003 said:


> Channel Master TV CM-7400 or HD HomeRun Dual both allow you to tune/record Clear QAM without a monthly fee.


The HD Homerun Dual requires a PC to do the recording. It's intended for viewing on your computer screen. I'm looking for a VCR type device that would work well in a home theater.

The Channel Master option IS what I'm looking for however. It's a bit pricy at $350, and risky since cable operators are now allowed to scramble local channels. If my cable operator does that I'll have a $350 door stop.

It would be so much easier if Dish simply gave us HD locals. DirecTV is looking more attractive every day.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

For about the same price, maybe $50 less, you can get an HD TiVo with lifetime subscription, if you are patient.

And the TiVo can iuse the cableco's cable card.


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## Don M (Jul 1, 2006)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Although I don't know beforehand when new HD channels are going to be released, we have added new local HD channels recently to our channel lineup. I will submit a program request form for local Rapid City locals in HD. Thanks.


Let me echo what Jim5506 said, only I would very much like the Amarillo locals in HD on DISH. I do get them using the OTA tuner in my 622s, but it would be great to have them in HD straight from DISH. Thanks for any help.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Don M said:


> Let me echo what Jim5506 said, only I would very much like the Amarillo locals in HD on DISH. I do get them using the OTA tuner in my 622s, but it would be great to have them in HD straight from DISH. Thanks for any help.


Now see, Directv finally gave us our locals in HD after about 5 years of promising, and I dont use them, because I record the OTA versions through my dvr just like you can do with the Dish stuff if you have it setup that way. I never have to worry about weather related outages.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

CCarncross said:


> Now see, Directv finally gave us our locals in HD after about 5 years of promising, and I dont use them, because I record the OTA versions through my dvr just like you can do with the Dish stuff if you have it setup that way. I never have to worry about weather related outages.


Unfortunately I only get the two locals broadcast on high band VHF here. The UHF locals don't come in, even with the expensive UHF antenna and tall mast I bought. So I'm stuck with NBC, ABC and PBS in fuzzy vision. NBC is in wide screen SD within a little box, and has a terrible picture and crappy sound.

I'm giving Dish till the end of May to fix this, then I'll be switching.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> For about the same price, maybe $50 less, you can get an HD TiVo with lifetime subscription, if you are patient.
> 
> *And the TiVo can use the cableco's cable card*.


The bolded part is important since Cable was granted the ability to encrypt basic cable early this year and would require a CableCard to decrypt the HD locals. May not be happening where you are right now, but it will eventually.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

JWKessler said:


> The HD Homerun Dual requires a PC to do the recording. It's intended for viewing on your computer screen.
> 
> It's intended for viewing on whatever size screen your HTPC is connected to. The PC I'm typing this on is connected to a 46" SONY LCD.
> 
> ...


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

bidger said:


> > I'm pretty certain that PBS is only available in SD through DirecTV, at least that's what I see for the Elmira/Corning market. Binghamton might be different though.


My friends with DirecTV in the Binghamton DMA assure me that they get WSKG in HD.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Praise Zeus! We got home tonight, the housemate turned on the TV and immediately started complaining. None of his network shows were recording and some channels had vanished from the favorites list. So I went to all channels in the guide and lo and behold, we have HD locals! I happily updated the guide, though at the moment the program data is still unavailable.

As a point of interest, even WSKG, our PBS local is listed as HD. I'm curious how these channels will look once actual HD programming is on the air. The locals I've checked so far are still unable to originate HD programming so local stuff and syndicated programming is in fuzzy vision. The actual network programming will be in HD.

Thank you Dish for finally coming through on this.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This just happened with a very recent uplink... I'm not familiar with the DMA to know how many of the locals they uplinked (if it covers all the available locals or not)... but it was a pretty good list.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Is The CW in HD?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jdspencer said:


> Is The CW in HD?


Yes. Whether your market's affiliate carries it in HD is a different question.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

I show the following channels provided in HD from us: 7, 10, 14, 4, and 2 on satellite 61.5. Thanks.



Don M said:


> Let me echo what Jim5506 said, only I would very much like the Amarillo locals in HD on DISH. I do get them using the OTA tuner in my 622s, but it would be great to have them in HD straight from DISH. Thanks for any help.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Ray:

Do we get our Lubbock HD locals Wednesday or must we wait another week?

I know you probably have no inside information, but I had to ask.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

I haven't seen any new information about HD local channels for Lubbock yet. I'll keep checking and let you know. Thanks.



Jim5506 said:


> Ray:
> 
> Do we get our Lubbock HD locals Wednesday or must we wait another week?
> 
> I know you probably have no inside information, but I had to ask.


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## DaveD345 (Jun 11, 2015)

blackhillsjk said:


> Yet another year has gone by with Dish and still no local HD channels for the Rapid City area. Yet another year that all the cable companies and Direct do carry them all. They say we are all very important customers and other areas are not more important than mine....You tell me.....Sigh


I am also in the Black Hills, Johnson Siding area. I would be ok with receiving the local channels in Standard Definition if Dish would stop cutting off the ends of the picture. Have you noticed that, too? I mean, all our local stations broadcast in widescreen, 16:9 aspect ratio, but Dish adds a 4:3 mask that covers the left and right portions of the picture. A full 22.5% of the picture is missing on all 5 of the locals. I am currently discussing this problem with Dish. One of the things they have told me is that no one else has complained about it. Would you be willing to also contact them via their Facebook page and tell them you want the problem fixed? Contact me in a PM if you would like to collaborate on this. I'm really tired of it but they (Dish) do seem to be listening to me this time around.


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## MarkN (Jul 13, 2007)

Another year gone by? Did I miss something I thought we were still in June?


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## Mike.H_DISHNetwork (Feb 1, 2011)

DaveD345 said:


> I am also in the Black Hills, Johnson Siding area. I would be ok with receiving the local channels in Standard Definition if Dish would stop cutting off the ends of the picture. Have you noticed that, too? I mean, all our local stations broadcast in widescreen, 16:9 aspect ratio, but Dish adds a 4:3 mask that covers the left and right portions of the picture. A full 22.5% of the picture is missing on all 5 of the locals. I am currently discussing this problem with Dish. One of the things they have told me is that no one else has complained about it. Would you be willing to also contact them via their Facebook page and tell them you want the problem fixed? Contact me in a PM if you would like to collaborate on this. I'm really tired of it but they (Dish) do seem to be listening to me this time around.


DaveD345,

There are some things I want to check with you about the local channels in your area.

Will you please PM me with the phone and zip code to better help you?

Thanks.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

MarkN said:


> Another year gone by? Did I miss something I thought we were still in June?


Two June's ago.....


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## blackhillsjk (Mar 2, 2012)

So an update....Yep it is now going on year 14 with Dish and still no locals in HD.....Now we don't even have NBC at all because of a little "Lovers spat" between Dish and the station that has lasted over a month now. No, I am still not going to buy something else to get them in HD. I am still paying the same amount as everyone else that is getting their locals in HD. The Rapid City area in the Black Hills still is just not important to them. And yes, Direct and all the cable companies have them in HD. But Dish customers don't deserve the same viewing. No, I am not switching because I just don't want to right now. My zip code is 57754 for any Dish Rep that might actually give a Rats *** about us here in the Black Hills.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

There's really only one way to truly complain. And that's to discontinue service with them and make sure they no why. Otherwise they obviously have no incentive since you are staying with them. 

With that said its ridiculous to me that both sat companies don't have every market in Hi Definition (as contracts allow) yet.

And if you could add an ota antenna but don't want to spend the money and you refuse to change providers to evidently anyone else then honestly I don't get your complaint.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rapid City market? It looks like your market is one that will not be fixed without a new satellite. DISH has the SD locals uplinked twice ... once to 110 and once to 119 ... just to cover the market. It looks like they don't have a place to put HD locals.


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## ground_pounder (Aug 15, 2014)

blackhillsjk said:


> Yet another year has gone by with Dish and still no local HD channels for the Rapid City area. Yet another year that all the cable companies and Direct do carry them all. They say we are all very important customers and other areas are not more important than mine....You tell me.....Sigh


can your receiver handle the usb dongle for digital OTA channels??


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

James Long said:


> Do you have a battery operated TV? I understand that they are available (there was a gap between the end of analog and the availability of battery operated TVs).
> 
> BTW: I have a generator that keeps my satellite dish running. And ATSC is weak enough that I need an outdoor amplified antenna to get a signal. I suppose I could get a bigger antenna and connect it to a battery operated portable.


I have a Vizio 7" ATSC TV, with ext and input. Sadly not mDTV. But I can pick my Nashville, TN locals up with an antenna preamp powered by a 12V car battery and anything else that runs on 12V DC too.


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