# DirecTV HD GUI Anticipation



## cypherx

Regulars on this site are well aware of the announcement by DirecTV (during the Investor day presentation) stating that a whole new HD GUI experience is in the works for 2011. The thought alone of a new HD interface with a fresh new look has me excited to be a DirecTV customer. Despite the differences in opinion I (and many others) may have with DirecTV regarding programming content, the GUI is an integral part of the customer experience. Any development to the interface to improve the look, feel and feature set is welcome. It's also something to make DirecTV stand out over the competition.

What do you guys want to see out of the new HD GUI?

When do you think it will be released? 

Just thought maybe we could get some ideas or some kind of discussion started on your expectations and what type of features would make it an essential tool in your television viewing and navigation experience?

My votes?
-Sleeker, richer looking graphics, kind of like the DirecTV iPad app.
-The same overall smoothness you get out of the DirecTV iPad app (or any iOS app for that matter). Meaning how things appear and disappear from the screen. Smooth fades, slides, transitions, "bouncy" feedback, etc. UI Animations that help bring attention and focus where you need to be. This stuff we take for granted on PC and Mac's, plus all the mobile devices these days.
-A universal playlist and todo list
-Quick access to the todo list and series recordings
-Better "MediaShare" functionality
-One click VOD streaming - if Receiver detects you have a good enough broadband connection (like Netflix).
-Maybe some IPTV functionality to design your own "Mix" channels, by pulling the individual channel windows via your broadband connection.
-Streaming recorded content or live content to iPad, iPhone, Android devices.
-Ability to see more channels by more time in the full grid guide.
-Perhaps Picture in Picture added to the "DoublePlay" feature?
-Crisp and sharp fonts looking just as crystal clear as the graphics many networks put on screen for sports scores and stuff like that. 
-RVU compatible for thin client devices

When do I expect to see an HD GUI? Well the Investor day presentation said that it was for 2011. So I expect to see it Q4 2011. They are still tweaking the current GUI, so until testers can get ahold of a new "HD GUI" and debug it, I think that puts us to the Holiday season time frame near the end of this year.

Thoughts, questions, opinions, any insider knowledge or screen shots?


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## hdtvfan0001

I anticipate 4 things:

1) There will be a new, consistent UI across all the HD hardware in the DirecTV stable (receivers and DVRs).

2) The new UI will be more "HD" and graphical in nature, with a similar "look and feel" to the latest DirecTV iPad application.

3) The new UI will contain a re-tooled version of the MediaShare functionality.

4) We'll see it appear some time before 4Q 2011.


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I anticipate 4 things:
> 
> 1) There will be a new, consistent UI across all the HD hardware in the DirecTV stable (receivers and DVRs).
> 
> 2) The new UI will be more "HD" and graphical in nature, with a similar "look and feel" to the latest DirecTV iPad application.
> 
> 3) The new UI will contain a re-tooled version of the MediaShare functionality.
> 
> 4) *We'll see it appear some time before 4Q 2011*.


Along with the TiVo....:lol:

Rich


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## cypherx

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I anticipate 4 things:
> 
> 1) There will be a new, consistent UI across all the HD hardware in the DirecTV stable (receivers and DVRs).
> 
> 2) The new UI will be more "HD" and graphical in nature, with a similar "look and feel" to the latest DirecTV iPad application.
> 
> 3) The new UI will contain a re-tooled version of the MediaShare functionality.
> 
> 4) We'll see it appear some time before 4Q 2011.


I agree with your points 1 through 3 above. But such a drastic HD GUI overhaul means creation of manuals, training videos, marketing materials, etc... all for something that testers haven't even got their hands on? I don't see expecting an HDGUI before 4Q 2011 realistic. To testers sure... but not National Release.


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## hdtvfan0001

cypherx said:


> I agree with your points 1 through 3 above. But such a drastic HD GUI overhaul means creation of manuals, training videos, marketing materials, etc... all for something that testers haven't even got their hands on? *I don't see expecting an HDGUI before 4Q 2011 realistic*. To testers sure... but not National Release.


That would make sense...assuming no work on such a project has started.


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## jal

I was on Continental Airlines this week, and they had Directv. The interface looks similar to the one we have now, [Mod Edit] Just the time, station and channel. The simplicity of it to me makes it seem better


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## sigma1914

jal said:


> I was on Continental Airlines this week, and they had Directv. The interface looks similar to the one we have now, [Mod edit] Just the time, station and channel. The simplicity of it to me makes it seem better


That's all I want/like...simplicity. I don't need bells and whistles like a Tivo. Give me text with the pertinent information and call it a day.


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## mjwagner

They would make me happy by just providing the ability to setup recordings on any DVR in the WHDVR 'network' from any other DVR.


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## hdtvfan0001

mjwagner said:


> They would make me happy by just providing the ability to setup recordings on any DVR in the WHDVR 'network' from any other DVR.


We can already do that with WHDS from any HD receiver in the home...so its not far fetched to think it will come.

I suspect the work on the new UI may already be underway - as others have pointed out...it takes alot of time. Doing it on all HD devices takes even more time (to have it consistent).

When it will surface...now that's another thing....but I still suspect it will be in 2011 and before October.


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## LameLefty

I'm not holding my breath. I have hope and agree that a refresh is due, but I am focusing on more near-term improvements in other areas.


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## hdtvfan0001

LameLefty said:


> I'm not holding my breath. I have hope and agree that a refresh is due, but I am focusing on more near-term improvements in other areas.


Hopefully "they" are too.


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## Hutchinshouse

HDGUI is high on my list. Bring it!


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## ShapeGSX

I just hope they don't charge us for it.  (only partially kidding)


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## Hutchinshouse

ShapeGSX said:


> I just hope they don't charge us for it.  (only partially kidding)


:lol:

I would be surprised if they did.


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## hdtvfan0001

Hutchinshouse said:


> :lol:
> 
> I would be surprised if they did.


You would not be alone in the surprise.


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## LarryFlowers

The redesign of the GUI is so far down on my list as to be non-existent.

There are still too many basic code issues.


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## ffemtreed

i just want a 16X9 widescreen FAST gui. 

I can care less if its HD or not. If they can't speed it up I don't want it.


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## veryoldschool

For those using _native, _I wonder how and HD GUI would work.


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## cypherx

"veryoldschool" said:


> For those using native, I wonder how and HD GUI would work.


I wonder that as well. I would be ok with just checking off 720p and 1080i if I had to. How does the Dish Network 922, Moxi Cable card DVR, TiVo Premiere, Verizon Fios IMG 1.9 handle it?

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## Go Beavs

veryoldschool said:


> For those using _native, _I wonder how and HD GUI would work.


It would probably scale to whatever output resolution was being used.

Fonts get bigger, less stuff on the screen maybe... I wouldn't think they'd have two completely different interfaces: one for SD and one for HD. They'd want it to look similar.


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## Go Beavs

cypherx said:


> I wonder that as well. I would be ok with just checking off 720p and 1080i if I had to. How does the Dish Network 922 or TiVo Premiere handle it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


I don't think they have a "native" setting, do they?


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## sigma1914

cypherx said:


> I wonder that as well. I would be ok with just checking off 720p and 1080i if I had to. How does the Dish Network 922, Moxi Cable card DVR, TiVo Premiere, Verizon Fios IMG 1.9 handle it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


The 922 apparently doesn't do native.


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## trainman

jal said:


> I was on Continental Airlines this week, and they had Directv. The interface looks similar to the one we have now...


It's not HD, though; it really is just a somewhat simplified version of the current GUI. I don't think it's necessarily a reliable indicator of what the HD GUI will look like.


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## trdrjeff

I hope there's an option to opt out of or retain a non HD one. I want speed to access my programs over beauty...


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> For those using _native, _I wonder how and HD GUI would work.


I suspect they'll choose a compromise resolution (say, 720p)...something supported by all HD devices. Only speculation.


trdrjeff said:


> I hope there's an option to opt out of or retain a non HD one. I want speed to access my programs over beauty...


Unlikely. They have worked for years to get the UI consistent among all HD devices...and probably won't deviate from that approach.


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## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect they'll choose a compromise resolution (say, 720p)...something supported by all HD devices. Only speculation.


I think you've missed the question:
What happens when the receiver is outputting 480i/p?
To take this a step further... what happens with 480 and original format [4:3]?


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> I think you've missed the question:
> What happens when the receiver is outputting 480i/p?
> To take this a step further... what happens with 480 and original format [4:3]?


Upconversion?

No different than playing a regular DVD in a Blu Ray player.


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## Go Beavs

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect they'll choose a compromise resolution (say, 720p)...something supported by all HD devices. Only speculation.


OK, what happens when you are watching a *cough* SD *cough* channel with native on at 480i? The receiver is outputing 480i to the display. The GUI can't be 720p while the PIG is 480i...


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## ndole

Go Beavs said:


> OK, what happens when you are watching a *cough* SD *cough* channel with native on at 480i? The receiver is outputing 480i to the display. The GUI can't be 720p while the PIG is 480i...


Couldn't the PIG be upscaled as well?


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## cypherx

trdrjeff said:


> I hope there's an option to opt out of or retain a non HD one. I want speed to access my programs over beauty...


Who says the HD GUI can't be faster? Maybe there's some hardware acceleration drivers that once utilized can really bring out the performance out of the processors. Think of a freshly formatted PC. Can you play some intensive graphical games on it? Maybe... but most likely the performance is horrible. Once you install the correct graphics drivers for your video card, then the hardware acceleration is on and the graphics performance is improved 1000 times.

I know talking to someone at Motorola who works on Cable boxes, says that those new DVR's (the Motorola DCX-3400m) are very powerful, even though it doesn't look like it with the legacy software that cable companies have on there. They said that once the full tru2way java stack is enabled, operators can throw a ton of stuff at it, including hardware acceleration drivers that enhance the graphics output, allowing stuff like 32-bit color graphics with alpha blending, high definition graphics and animations. Now these use Broadcom SoC's but I'm not sure what chip powers DirecTV's arsenal. But if there are low level driver optimizations that can be done to allow the software to directly interact with the chipset and allow it to fully accelerate some of the mundane processing tasks that are currently taking up regular CPU cycles, perhaps the experience would be better? Tivo Premiere also uses a Broadcom CPU, which is dual core, but for some reason Tivo is only running it as a single core processor at the moment. Even at a single core, it's able to do an HD UI - but many say that it could be sped up enormously if the second core was to be enabled. Tivo is also using the very resource heavy flash, and on one core maybe that's why it's sluggish.


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## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Upconversion?
> 
> No different than playing a regular DVD in a Blu Ray player.


I think you're still missing the whole point.
The receiver can't "upscale" anything, when it's outputting 480i/p and in the 4:3 format.
It would need to "down-rez" the GUI to SD.


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## Go Beavs

ndole_mbnd said:


> Couldn't the PIG be upscaled as well?


With native on and watching a SD channel, the receiver is outputing 480i to the display. The display is getting a 480i signal. In order to upscale the PIG, the receiver would have to change output resolutions every time you entered a menu or guide.

People complain a lot now over slow channel changes. Imagine having to wait for the display to sync up every time you enter and exit the guide. :eek2:


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## gregjones

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect they'll choose a compromise resolution (say, 720p)...something supported by all HD devices. Only speculation.
> 
> Unlikely. They have worked for years to get the UI consistent among all HD devices...and probably won't deviate from that approach.


A huge section of early HDTVs do not support 720p. Ask Roku (supports 1080p and 720p but not 1080i) and AppleTV (supports 720p). Supporting only 1080p and 720p would be a bad idea. Supporting only 720p would be a horrible idea.


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## veryoldschool

cypherx said:


> Tivo Premiere also uses a Broadcom CPU, which is dual core, but for some reason Tivo is only running it as a single core processor at the moment. Even at a single core, it's able to do an HD UI - but many say that it could be sped up enormously if the second core was to be enabled. Tivo is also using the very resource heavy flash, and on one core maybe that's why it's sluggish.


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## ndole

Go Beavs said:


> With native on and watching a SD channel, the receiver is outputing 480i to the display. The display is getting a 480i signal. In order to upscale the PIG, the receiver would have to change output resolutions every time you entered a menu or guide.
> 
> People complain a lot now over slow channel changes. Imagine having to wait for the display to sync up everytime you enter and exit the guide. :eek2:


It does take an eternity to change channels when the IRD switches res in Native. I've been to numerous service calls because the channel changing was so slow, only to find Native:ON :nono2:

*..Maybe they'll just do away with the Native feature *


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## veryoldschool

ndole_mbnd said:


> It does take an eternity to change channels when the IRD switches res in Native. I've been to numerous service calls because the channel changing was so slow, only to find Native:ON :nono2:
> 
> *..Maybe they'll just do away with the Native feature *


God, I hope not. :eek2: :nono2:


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## Go Beavs

ndole_mbnd said:


> *..Maybe they'll just do away with the Native feature *


Hope you've got your flame suit! :lol::lol:


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## cypherx

Yikes. I do wonder if that DMIPS is counting the Tivo with both cores active, or just the current performance with only a single core running? I used to have an iPhone 3G and it was so SLOW (the wife still has one actually). The HR24 is only marginally better than an iPhone 3G, and the other HR's are even less powerful? Wow then I don't expect too much, unless that is only raw CPU power and not counting any type of graphics acceleration co-processors or other specially designed ASIC's that can offload some core processing.

The Motorola cable box I was talking about earlier is between the Cisco RNG-200 and Tivo Premiere on that list. I almost think it has the same generation Broadcom SoC as the Dish 922.

My iPhone 4 feels really fluid and smooth. I guess the iPhone 3G was great for it's time, but as software got more complex and iOS updates carried more weight, they really did slow down these days.


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## ndole

Go Beavs said:


> Hope you've got your flame suit! :lol::lol:


:lol:
It wasn't necessarily a suggestion. Just a thought. If Native is a deal breaker for the HDGUI, which do you think will be more likely: The whole HDGUI thing is scrapped (forever and ever) or they just delete the code for Native to eliminate the whole issue? !Devil_lol


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## sigma1914

ndole_mbnd said:


> It does take an eternity to change channels when the IRD switches res in Native. I've been to numerous service calls because the channel changing was so slow, only to find Native:ON :nono2:
> 
> *..Maybe they'll just do away with the Native feature *


It depends on your setup. It's just a split second longer on my setup...I prefer it on.


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## cypherx

ndole_mbnd said:


> It does take an eternity to change channels when the IRD switches res in Native. I've been to numerous service calls because the channel changing was so slow, only to find Native:ON :nono2:
> 
> *..Maybe they'll just do away with the Native feature *


I think that depends on the TV and STB implementation.

Back when I lived in a Comcast area, a Motorola DCX-3400 via HDMI with native was VERY SLOW on my Samsung HPT-4254 plasma. With DirecTV's HR24-200, my TV displays a picture MUCH FASTER than the Motorola ever did.

One odd thing about my Samsung Plasma... it WILL NOT accept 480i over HDMI. So I always choose 480p, 720p, 1080i (it is not a 1080p TV either). 480i causes an "unsupported video mode" message, and it is noted in the manual that 480i cannot be done. I wondered why this was the case, even when updating to the latest TV firmware. Who knows.


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## veryoldschool

cypherx said:


> Yikes. I do wonder if that DMIPS is counting the Tivo with both cores active, or just the current performance with only a single core running?


The footnotes that went with that graph denoted the Tivo was only using a single core at the time.


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## StephenT

Go Beavs said:


> In order to upscale the PIG, the receiver would have to change output resolutions every time you entered a menu or guide.
> 
> People complain a lot now over slow channel changes. Imagine having to wait for the display to sync up every time you enter and exit the guide. :eek2:


I have a TiVoHD I used to use with an antenna as two more tuners to go along with my D* setup. I had it on native. It doesn't have PIG, but with native on the menus would only output 720p. So if you were in 1080i or 480i it would resync when you pushed the button to go to the menu. This sucked!

The menus/guide should always come up in the native resolution of the program it is overlaying while in native mode. Only way to do it without syncing all the time that will drive people nuts.

The menu may not be HD but the HRs do this now. While in native you don't have to sync to bring up any menu. Don't change that. An SD menu while watching an SD channel is not that big a deal. Who watches SD anyway?


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan

Will the new "HD GUI" include more HD Channels?









(I keed, I keed :grin


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## veryoldschool

cypherx said:


> One odd thing about my Samsung Plasma... it WILL NOT accept 480i over HDMI. So I always choose 480p, 720p, 1080i (it is not a 1080p TV either). 480i causes an "unsupported video mode" message, and it is noted in the manual that 480i cannot be done. I wondered why this was the case, even when updating to the latest TV firmware. Who knows.


It is/was the way they handled HDMI, for "whatever reason". :shrug:


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## veryoldschool

"Some thoughts":
An HD GUI would still need to be scalable, as the current SD is. Scale up/down for the resolution the receiver is outputting.
Long, long ago [8 years] I had a Sony HD DirecTV receiver. when on an SD channel the guide had an hour and a half of programing displayed. When on an HD channel, it has two hours displayed.

While the current GUI is "just a bit dated" lol, my interest is data/information from it. Keep the layout simple and factual, so I can get in and out of it quickly. The goal is to watch TV, not spend time in the GUI. :nono:


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## hdtvfan0001

I suspect all of these issues have been on the table when they initiated/will initiate such a project.

When I see how they re-tooled CinemaNow...and then later came out with the iPad app....I suspect this is much to do about nothing, in terms of the worries.

The screen *content* resolution and the presentation of the content can be handled as independent elements in the overall solution.

I anticipate the HD devices will handle things just fine.


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## BattleScott

The gui is rendered by a graphics engine in pixles. The image will simply be overlayed and output at whatever resloution the device is currently outputting. The device isn't going to change output formats in order to display the gui screen. The same GUI screen is displayed regardless of the output format, there will just be small differences in detail quality at the SD resolutions vs. the HD.


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## Shades228

I anticipate it won't be enough for some people, it will be too much for others, some won't care, and most people it will be just right.


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## hdtvfan0001

BattleScott said:


> The gui is rendered by a graphics engine in pixles. The image will simply be overlayed and output at whatever resloution the device is currently outputting. The device isn't going to change output formats in order to display the gui screen. The same GUI screen is displayed regardless of the output format, there will just be small differences in detail quality at the SD resolutions vs. the HD.


...and there we have it...


Shades228 said:


> I anticipate it won't be enough for some people, it will be too much for others, some won't care, and most people it will be just right.


How true, how true.


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## cypherx

And what about HD set tops on SD TV's, via 480i component, s-video or composite. You think the graphics will be letterboxed?

How about an HR-24 feeding an HDTV via HDMI, but the composite video feeding a DVD Recorder or second monitor somewhere. Can it render two resolutions at once like that?

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## hdtvfan0001

cypherx said:


> And what about HD set tops on *SD* TV's, via 480i component, s-video or composite. You think the graphics will be letterboxed?
> 
> How about an HR-24 feeding an HDTV via HDMI, but the composite video feeding a DVD Recorder or second monitor somewhere. Can it render two resolutions at once like that?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


What's SD?


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## cypherx

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> What's SD?


LOL. My office TV, BBC America, DIY, AMC, E!, Style, We, Fuse, HI, er.... You get the idea. ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## cypherx

VOS, I noticed there are more devices on that chart









Glad to see the HR23 on par with the Motorola QIP7216 and the HR24 and HR20 faster than the U-Verse DVR. The Moto QIP7216 can run the new Fios IMG 1.9 guide in full HD and a tester I spoke with LOVES it. I also thought the U-Verse DVR looked pretty graphical and seemed neat, so the fact that the HR24 and HR20 is more powerful of that gives me some hope that they can still achieve some great stuff on the current generation equipment.


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## ShapeGSX

cypherx said:


> VOS, I noticed there are more devices on that chart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see the HR23 on par with the Motorola QIP7216 and the HR24 and HR20 faster than the U-Verse DVR. The Moto QIP7216 can run the new Fios IMG 1.9 guide in full HD and a tester I spoke with LOVES it. I also thought the U-Verse DVR looked pretty graphical and seemed neat, so the fact that the HR24 and HR20 is more powerful of that gives me some hope that they can still achieve some great stuff on the current generation equipment.


That is only referencing the CPU power. At least some of those devices also have GPUs to offload the CPU. I'm not sure if the HR series does or not.


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## veryoldschool

ShapeGSX said:


> That is only referencing the CPU power. At least some of those devices also have GPUs to offload the CPU. I'm not sure if the HR series does or not.


While I don't know all of the chips being used, it's clear the "CPU" isn't the whole story, as the differences between the HR20 and the HR21/22/23 are more significant than what that graph displays.


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## Beerstalker

cypherx said:


> And what about HD set tops on SD TV's, via 480i component, s-video or composite. You think the graphics will be letterboxed?


I hope it will be letterboxed, at least on the HD channels.


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## cypherx

veryoldschool said:


> While I don't know all of the chips being used, it's clear the "CPU" isn't the whole story, as the differences between the HR20 and the HR21/22/23 are more significant than what that graph displays.


I think the HR24 has a CX24500 @ 550 MHz. I'm just looking at the spec sheet to see if anything stands out:
http://www.conexant.com/servlets/DownloadServlet/PBR-201122-001.pdf?docid=1123&revid=1

I guess I'm interested in the potential performance on these receivers, just to satisfy the worries that bringing on a more processor intensive HD UI will not slow the system down. I'm not sure what Dish Network is using, but I've seen a guide mode on their 722's that displays A LOT of channels by 3 or more hours on the screen at once. This makes me think that the 722 is generating the graphics in at least 720p if not 1080i. Then you have the 922 which we know for a fact is an HD UI, and while I hear it's a little buggy, I haven't heard much on performance issues on it.

Anyway some interesting points on the CX24500 are on page 3 of that PDF I linked.


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## ShapeGSX

Hmm, if this is what they are using to move the music channel screen saver or DTV screen saver around the screen (and it should be), I am not impressed:
* Advanced 2D graphics rendering engine for alphablt, bitblt, textblt, line draw, and color expansion acceleration

Those exceedingly simple animations jump around far too much.


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## veryoldschool

cypherx said:


> I think the HR24 has a CX24500 @ 550 MHz.


 I'm not sure they do in either model, The -500 doesn't use the same chip as the others, which I think are using broadcom.
I'll have to leave it to others that follow the chips better, to give more details.


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## cypherx

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not sure they do in either model, The -500 doesn't use the same chip as the others, which I think are using broadcom.
> I'll have to leave it to others that follow the chips better, to give more details.


Fair enough. But for a contestant HD UI experience... I guess we should look at the least powered CPU in the HR line. Thats what DirecTV would have to design against. Nothing worse then building it for the HR24, then finding out it runs unbearably slow on an HR23.


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## harsh

cypherx said:


> Who says the HD GUI can't be faster? Maybe there's some hardware acceleration drivers that once utilized can really bring out the performance out of the processors.


The existing GUI is handled by a character generator and an overlay facility. Changing various aspects within the limitations of the character generator shouldn't negatively impact performance outside of having to shuffle more data around.

Then again, the HR2x database engine seems to be pretty frail.


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## Rich

Hutchinshouse said:


> HDGUI is high on my list. Bring it!


I refuse to get all worked up over this...again. When it comes, it comes. I'll surely appreciate it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Rich


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## TBoneit

StephenT said:


> I have a TiVoHD I used to use with an antenna as two more tuners to go along with my D* setup. I had it on native. It doesn't have PIG, but with native on the menus would only output 720p. So if you were in 1080i or 480i it would resync when you pushed the button to go to the menu. This sucked!
> 
> The menus/guide should always come up in the native resolution of the program it is overlaying while in native mode. Only way to do it without syncing all the time that will drive people nuts.
> 
> The menu may not be HD but the HRs do this now. While in native you don't have to sync to bring up any menu. Don't change that. An SD menu while watching an SD channel is not that big a deal. Who watches SD anyway?


Who watches SD? People like me that want the content that is only available in SD.

Content is king, not HD as eye candy.

I suppose they could have 480, 720p & 1080i(p) menus available so the the proper one gets displayed with native on.


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Upconversion?
> 
> No different than playing a regular DVD in a Blu Ray player.


Nobody will ever call the *FAN* a pessimist. 

Rich


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## Rich

veryoldschool said:


> God, I hope not. :eek2: :nono2:


Let us pray together.

Rich


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## veryoldschool

cypherx said:


> Fair enough. But for a contestant HD UI experience... I guess we should look at the least powered CPU in the HR line. Thats what DirecTV would have to design against. Nothing worse then building it for the HR24, then finding out it runs unbearably slow on an HR23.


"A rough breakdown"
The 20s use a single broadcom chip.
The 21/22/23s use a [cheaper] two chip solution, with a slower memory bus.
The 24-500 uses a NDX chip.
The other 24s use a broadcom chip.

Others may/should either correct this or give more details, as I just don't follow all the chip details as much as I've read others do.


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## Rich

ndole_mbnd said:


> :lol:
> It wasn't necessarily a suggestion. Just a thought. If Native is a deal breaker for the HDGUI, which do you think will be more likely: The whole HDGUI thing is scrapped (forever and ever) or they just delete the code for Native to eliminate the whole issue? !Devil_lol


You know, it *Stuart Sweet* hadn't mentioned that the GUI was in SD, I would have never realized it. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss...

Rich


----------



## Rich

BattleScott said:


> The gui is rendered by a graphics engine in pixles. The image will simply be overlayed and output at whatever resloution the device is currently outputting. The device isn't going to change output formats in order to display the gui screen. The same GUI screen is displayed regardless of the output format, there will just be small differences in detail quality at the SD resolutions vs. the HD.


That seems like a rational explanation.

Rich


----------



## cypherx

"rich584" said:


> You know, it Stuart Sweet hadn't mentioned that the GUI was in SD, I would have never realized it. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss...
> 
> Rich


Yeah, at least our current GUI fills the screen. Cable tends to "pillarbox" it centered on the screen. So it could be worse!

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I still have one SD tv in my house and it has a HR22-100 hooked to it, there will need to be some sort of scaling done.

I'm not too worried if the existing HR's can handle the HDGUI or not, I remember being told here that the HR's didn't have enough processor power to properly stream MRV. We all know what happened there.


----------



## veryoldschool

Scott Kocourek said:


> I remember being told here that the HR's didn't have enough processor power to properly stream MRV. We all know what happened there.


"Yeah", it only took them over a year to figure that out. :eek2: :lol:


----------



## Xsabresx

I'm not so much concerned with an HD GUI. I'd just be happy with a universal to do list.

I'd also like a series manager that broke down by days of the week. Nothing worse than starting a series on, say, Thurs @ 9pm only to find out nothing will record because you already have two things set up to record at that time. Even if it was just something that said "hey idiot you already have that slot filled"


----------



## gregjones

cypherx said:


> Fair enough. But for a contestant HD UI experience... I guess we should look at the least powered CPU in the HR line. Thats what DirecTV would have to design against. Nothing worse then building it for the HR24, then finding out it runs unbearably slow on an HR23.


And depending on the design, the CPU might have almost nothing to do with it. I run an HTPC (XBMC) and in spite of the fact that it often has a programming guide that is dynamically generated (PseudoTV add-on), it is almost completely GPU-bound. The CPU, which is a dual-core Atom, rarely hits above 12% even with a programming guide overlaying a 1080p movie.


----------



## ffemtreed

Its all in the efficiency or inefficiency of the code that the processor has to handle.


----------



## argonaut

I'm not very demanding. Here is what I want.

1. True 1920x1080 resolution
2. No ads
3. Extremely responsive


----------



## Hutchinshouse

argonaut said:



> I'm not very demanding. Here is what I want.
> 
> 1. True 1920x1080 resolution
> 2. No ads
> 3. Extremely responsive


You want fries with that? :lol:

All sounds great to me.


----------



## Sixto

While an HD GUI seems like it would be a good thing, I'm just hoping it's FAST. That's my only requirement. The first thing I always turn off on the PC and/or the DirecTV UI is animation.

I'm mostly hitting GUIDE, LIST, SELECT, and EXIT. Just want it super fast to watch recordings, while 95% of what I watch is a series recording.

Looking forward to whatever is developed.

And as a reminder ... my #1 requirement is always DVR selection for MRV.  (zillion times more a priority - for me)


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> Yeah, at least our current GUI fills the screen. Cable tends to "pillarbox" it centered on the screen. So it could be worse!


Who gives a crap if it fills the screen? The current GUI fills the screen by simply stretching the 4:3 GUI to 16:9. Six in one hand, half dozen in the other. Give me a 16:9 native GUI and I'll care.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I'd be surprised to see anything other than a base 16 X 9 UI that fills most HDTV screens fully.


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'd be surprised to see anything other than a base 16 X 9 UI that fills most HDTV screens fully.


Absolutely, I was just referring to the current GUI.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> Absolutely, I was just referring to the current GUI.


Yup.

We're on the same page.


----------



## Skyboss

Maybe it will have the cover art for movies (a la netflix) vs a list of them like they show in the commercials.


----------



## Skyboss

Hutchinshouse said:


> You want fries with that? :lol:
> 
> All sounds great to me.


And a side order of bacon! :hurah:


----------



## hasan

ShapeGSX said:


> I just hope they don't charge us for it.  (only partially kidding)


Now that brought a wry grin to my face. Nice job!

They wouldn't be that crass, however. The costs for it will just be folded into our next price increase.

I look forward to an HD-GUI. I'm starting to cringe at the price increases.


----------



## Jeremy W

Skyboss said:


> Maybe it will have the cover art for movies (a la netflix) vs a list of them like they show in the commercials.


That was one of the things they mentioned that the new GUI will have. Just like the iPad app.


----------



## tonyd79

"Jeremy W" said:


> That was one of the things they mentioned that the new GUI will have. Just like the iPad app.


Hopefully it won't slow the dvr down like TiVo did with the premier.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Hopefully it won't slow the dvr down like TiVo did with the premier.


Tivo wrote their new HD GUI in Flash. I don't see DirecTV doing that.


----------



## tonyd79

"Jeremy W" said:


> Tivo wrote their new HD GUI in Flash. I don't see DirecTV doing that.


True. But I think the pictures issue was that they were going to the Internet for everything which held it all up.


----------



## urnote96

looks good from the state of the company address


----------



## inkahauts

Skyboss said:


> Maybe it will have the cover art for movies (a la netflix) vs a list of them like they show in the commercials.


As long as that is just an option. I still want to be able to view everything in a list for that is using just words.. Its easier and faster to identify things that way, even though cover art looks better. Maybe if they did it like itunes, so you can choose which way you browse...


----------



## inkahauts

tonyd79 said:


> True. But I think the pictures issue was that they were going to the Internet for everything which held it all up.


Directv will not use the internet to pull data for a gui. They will always populate it via sat like they are doing with the cover art now. They can't afford to force people to have internet access..


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> Then again, the HR2x database engine seems to be pretty frail.


Proof please..


----------



## hdtvfan0001

inkahauts said:


> Proof please..


There isn't any....more FUD.


----------



## tonyd79

inkahauts said:


> Directv will not use the internet to pull data for a gui. They will always populate it via sat like they are doing with the cover art now. They can't afford to force people to have internet access..


I know they do now. Hope they keep it that way. Exception being the VOD stuff, of course.


----------



## cypherx

I thought I saw a survey on here where people could vote on features or enhancements to the DirecTV GUI / Guide. Is that something that is still ongoing? It looked to be hosted on another site, but linked here.

Things like "on a scale of 1 to 5, how interested are you in..." and then a bunch of features such as Picture in Picture. 

I'm just wondering if it's almost time for a new survey that goes along with an HD User Interface? I guess when the HD UI comes out, we would know what to vote on. I wouldn't mind looking at the results of the old poll though.


----------



## Doug Brott

That "other" site is mine  .. The survey is run by DBSTalk user 'Steve'.


----------



## liquidctv

>a bunch of features such as Picture in Picture. 

PIP would be cool. On a dvr, the dual tuner is seamless to the point where the customer doesn't even fully realize they have 2 tuners. 

But, they should. Explaining double play is more than I have patience for usually. If you could bring them both up at the same time, then it would be obvious.


----------



## Rich

I should have taken pictures of the Cablevision GUI. It was in 4:3 and had very little space for any info. Kinda crappy, just like the DVR. The installer couldn't get over how nice our GUI is. Sometimes we just don't appreciate what we have. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

liquidctv said:


> >a bunch of features such as Picture in Picture.
> 
> PIP would be cool. On a dvr, the dual tuner is seamless to the point where the customer doesn't even fully realize they have 2 tuners.
> 
> But, they should. Explaining double play is more than I have patience for usually. If you could bring them both up at the same time, then it would be obvious.


That Cablevision box had PIP. I had PIP so many years ago and we haven't missed it. I still have a gizmo around someplace that I could hook up to two HRs and get PIP, but I think PIP's time has come and gone. Just my opinion. Don't even see any TVs with it anymore. Was a time when they all had it.

Rich


----------



## liquidctv

>I think PIP's time has come and gone. Just my opinion. Don't even see any TVs with it anymore.

That's the thing. I think PIP was ahead of its time. 

TVs were a pain in the ass, because you had to buy an extra vcr or whatever, and hook it up. But with dvr's scanning the tuners for good shows, multi-tuner should become the new norm. 

Not to mention, how many people are mirroring (or trying to...), they could be getting 2 tv's off of 1 box, a la dish.


----------



## cypherx

rich584 said:


> I should have taken pictures of the Cablevision GUI. It was in 4:3 and had very little space for any info. Kinda crappy, just like the DVR. The installer couldn't get over how nice our GUI is. Sometimes we just don't appreciate what we have.
> 
> Rich


Yeah they use SARA. That thing is pretty archaic. Passport is a much better platform to run on Cisco set tops. TWC Navigator although looks nicer than SARA, supposedly has it's problems.

Not saying our DirecTV system stinks or anything. I'm just curious over the years, what kind of ideas have people come up with, how popular were they, and what's actually been implemented?

I'm VERY excited to see this new HDGUI, whenever that may be. Of course I'm curious to see what kind of new features it will bring to the table, besides the overall look and feel.

EDIT:

Found Steve in the member search, and a link in his sig for the site I was thinking about. http://www.wishlistsurvey.com/

Thanks Doug!


----------



## tonyd79

"rich584" said:


> That Cablevision box had PIP. I had PIP so many years ago and we haven't missed it. I still have a gizmo around someplace that I could hook up to two HRs and get PIP, but I think PIP's time has come and gone. Just my opinion. Don't even see any TVs with it anymore. Was a time when they all had it.
> 
> Rich


I love pip. Use it all the time. Watch a comedy while watching a game. Great stuff.

I am going to miss it when I get my next tv. May have to put a small monitor up. Or maybe iPad.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

liquidctv said:


> >a bunch of features such as Picture in Picture.
> 
> PIP would be cool. On a dvr, the dual tuner is seamless to the point where the customer doesn't even fully realize they have 2 tuners.
> 
> But, they should. Explaining double play is more than I have patience for usually. If you could bring them both up at the same time, then it would be obvious.





liquidctv said:


> >I think PIP's time has come and gone. Just my opinion. Don't even see any TVs with it anymore.
> 
> That's the thing. I think PIP was ahead of its time.
> 
> TVs were a pain in the ass, because you had to buy an extra vcr or whatever, and hook it up. But with dvr's scanning the tuners for good shows, multi-tuner should become the new norm.
> 
> Not to mention, how many people are mirroring (or trying to...), they could be getting 2 tv's off of 1 box, a la dish.


The new HR34 will have PIP.

I don't think it was ahead of its time, but I do think it was too complicated for some to use, as you said you had to have 2 boxes, plus multiple remotes, one remote for the TV and another for the box.

I think Pioneer still has PIP on some of their higher end TV's.


----------



## mx6bfast

veryoldschool said:


> "A rough breakdown"
> The 20s use a single broadcom chip.
> The 21/22/23s use a [cheaper] two chip solution, with a slower memory bus.
> The 24-500 uses a NDX chip.
> The other 24s use a broadcom chip.
> 
> Others may/should either correct this or give more details, as I just don't follow all the chip details as much as I've read others do.


I haven't been following this board much recently. I have 1 20-100 and 2 700's. Will they support an HD GUI?

If it speeds up the response I am all for it, if not, pass. If more guide spam shows up pass even more.


----------



## tonyd79

Slightly off topic. Fios started rolling out their new software which includes an HD menuing system. First sightings this week. Beta has been going on for months. Takes Verizon a long time to get it to everyone. Maybe mid year or so.


----------



## kevinwmsn

HDGUI won't mean a thing, unless it lightning fast... instant response when I press guide, then guide will be up, no key bounce or delay of it working.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

There will be no HD GUI in 2011.


----------



## Hoosier205

"SPACEMAKER" said:


> There will be no HD GUI in 2011.


Yes there will be.


----------



## inkahauts

SPACEMAKER said:


> There will be no HD GUI in 2011.


Its not being designed by tivo, so I expect them to follow through and roll out a HDGUI... It's not a matter of if, its simply when....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SPACEMAKER said:


> There will be no HD GUI in 2011.





Hoosier205 said:


> Yes there will be.


We have a "competition" in play. 

I'll have to follow Hoosier on this one...


----------



## cypherx

I anticipate it Q4 2011, in time for the holiday HDTV sales.

I can see the sales guys now... "Hey while your buying this HDTV, why not sign up for DirecTV, look at this great interface!"


----------



## tonyd79

"cypherx" said:


> I anticipate it Q4 2011, in time for the holiday HDTV sales.
> 
> I can see the sales guys now... "Hey while your buying this HDTV, why not sign up for DirecTV, look at this great interface!"


Hahaha.

It is funny but I bought a Blu Ray player for my brother for Christmas. He usually cannot tell the difference between SD and HD but he got all excited over the players menus! He called to his wife about how sharp they were.


----------



## joed32

mx6bfast said:


> I haven't been following this board much recently. I have 1 20-100 and 2 700's. Will they support an HD GUI?
> 
> If it speeds up the response I am all for it, if not, pass. If more guide spam shows up pass even more.


HR20-100 and 700s will be able to show the guide in HD if it becomes available.


----------



## Sixto

*9/21/2009:*


Ken_F said:


> You should not expect to see a "modern" HD GUI until the next-generation DirecTV DVR is available.
> 
> The Broadcom SoC in the current DirecTV DVRs was never intended to support a HD UI. It was intended to support 4:3 and 16:9 SD UIs, and doesn't provide the performance necessary to support a responsive, high-definition UI like that seen on the Moxi, Windows Media Center, or Dish ViP922.
> 
> DirecTV can certainly do away with the stretched 4:3. I expect DirecTV to release an upconverted 16:9 SD UI, much like the EPG on Dish Network's ViP722. I would not get your hopes up for much more than that.


*3/16/2010:*


Ken_F said:


> Dish Network released the ViP722K based on the the newer BCM7400 SoC last year. It currently uses the same UI as their older boxes.
> 
> Dish Network's ViP922 -- expected in May -- uses the same BCM7400 SoC to support a completely new HD UI with 3D elements. This is made possible by the 3D GPU in that chip. This new UI is incompatible with their older ViP622 and ViP722 DVRs, but is compatible with the ViP722k.
> 
> If the HR24 is based on the CX24500 as reported, then it doesn't have a GPU or OpenGL / Flash support. That suggests DirecTV *may* have opted for a less ambitious approach to their next UI. It is *possible* they are looking at a "watered down" 16:9 UI that can run on all existing HR2x platforms. Sky+ in the UK opted to do that for their older BCM7038+BCM74011 boxes:
> 
> Youtube: Sky+ 16:9 EPG for older DVR hardware similar to HR20
> 
> The video above shows a 16:9 UI, although it is rendered in lower resolution and then upconverted to HD resolution.


There have been a number of posts by Ken_F over the years with the technical details relative to the above. Have always found his posts (search for Ken_F posts) to be the most informative. He's not posted in a while.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Sixto said:


> *9/21/2009:**3/16/2010:*There have been a number of posts by Ken_F over the years with the technical details relative to the above. Have always found his posts (search for Ken_F posts) to be the most informative. He's not posted in a while.


So from what Ken_F is saying, a true HD GUI is not possible with the current receivers, only an up converted one is?


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes there will be.


No there won't. Look at Ken F.'s posts.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SPACEMAKER said:


> No there won't. Look at Ken F.'s posts.


You're assuming all of that information is correct.

It's important to note there are a number of different CPU and video processor models in the various HD devices in the field today.

Newer models, for example, have totally different components than just a few years back - technology advances. In addition...even the HR24's out there today (the -500, the -200, and the -100 versions) use 2 different CPU's.

So a blanket statement on what can/can't be supported doesn't apply.

I suspect we won't have to wait until the end of the year to learn about the next User Interface.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're assuming all of that information is correct.
> 
> It's important to note there are a number of different CPU and video processor models in the various HD devices in the field today.
> 
> Newer models, for example, have totally different components than just a few years back - technology advances. In addition...even the HR24's out there today (the -500, the -200, and the -100 versions) use 2 different CPU's.
> 
> So a blanket statement on what can/can't be supported doesn't apply.
> 
> I suspect we won't have to wait until the end of the year to learn about the next User Interface.


And I suspect that a new HD GUI will produce the usual problems we suffer thru every time some new, complicated upgrade is introduced. We really should be careful of what we wish for.

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

"SPACEMAKER" said:


> No there won't. Look at Ken F.'s posts.


Yes there will be.


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're assuming all of that information is correct ...


Would be interested in any evidence that the information is not correct.

I always try to learn from folks smarter then me on these topics, and have always been intrigued by Ken_F's posts, which have been rare over the years.

If there's someone with better information, or someone who's willing to take the time to investigate to enable better conclusions, then that would be great.

This seems pretty cut-and-dry to me, we know the processor in the HR20, the HR21/22/23, and HR24-500. Not so sure of the exact processor number in the other HR24's but someone might know here.

Knowing the exact processors, it should enable someone who's knowledgeable to post what each is specifically capable of, rather then all the guessing and babble here. 

I was always frustrated that we were guessing about the satellite stuff and HD utilization, then figured that it was worth the time to just go figure it out, even though I had no clue at the time where to even start.

It seems like the same can be said about the HD GUI. Need someone smart to tell us what the boxes are actually capable of, and until now I've only found Ken_F to post anything credible.

But there's always the opportunity for someone to do the legwork and become an expert on the topic, and post the possibilities.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Newer models, for example, have totally different components than just a few years back - technology advances. In addition...even the HR24's out there today (the -500, the -200, and the -100 versions) use 2 different CPU's.


Outside of networking on the H20 and 3D, can you think of any major feature that isn't available to all of the H(R)2x series?

Do you anticipate that DIRECTV will add many more features that aren't available to all Plus® HD models?

I suspect that as long as DIRECTV refuses to differentiate between the various implementations, the feature sets will remain substantially identical. To do otherwise would surely cause confusion both internally and with customers.


----------



## Davenlr

Sixto said:


> It seems like the same can be said about the HD GUI. Need someone smart to tell us what the boxes are actually capable of, and until now I've only found Ken_F to post anything credible.


I agree. I also hope DirecTv has better programmers than Tivo does. The HD GUI on the Premier, which has the processor to support it, uses Flash, and everything needed for a top notch GUI, it pitiful. Its grid guide only displays 8 channels x 1.5hr, is not customizable, is NOT sharp, is NOT fast. SageTV's HDGUI on the other hand, works across all its media extender platforms, all its computer display platforms, is fully customizable, is sharp, scales down to SD with the toggle of a menu item, supports as many channels x as many hours on the screen as you can set the font small enough to read, dynamically. The former works only on the newest CPU platform, the latter works on older cpu's in their older media extenders as well as their new one.

Since history has shown that DirecTv pretty much wants standardization, without customization, I certainly hope they do not take the Tivo approach (a half finished GUI that reverts to SD with almost any submenu selection). I would much prefer a 16:9 SD upscaled GUI that worked well, and was logical (that SKY GUI linked earlier looked great).


----------



## rrdirectsr

SPACEMAKER said:


> No there won't. Look at Ken F.'s posts.


According to a meeting I saw the new GUI will be rolled out to about 75% of HD equipment in Q3 this year (2011). I saw the screen shots and demo and it is lightning fast and the icons are pretty cool.

Note: my comments and view points are my own and not that of DirecTV.


----------



## Davenlr

75% would seem to rule out one HR series...Wonder which one


----------



## rrdirectsr

Not sure if that's why they mentioned the 75% or if it's just rolled out in stages like the regular software is. (e.g. MT time zone from 04/15 - 05/01 PT Time zone 05/01 - 05/15), etc).


----------



## sigma1914

Davenlr said:


> 75% would seem to rule out one HR series...Wonder which one


Tivo? :lol: 24s? :eek2:


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> Tivo? :lol: 24s? :eek2:


Did you see my post to you about the capacitive wand for the iPad? You can find it on amazon.com.

Rich


----------



## sigma1914

rich584 said:


> Did you see my post to you about the capacitive wand for the iPad? You can find it on amazon.com.
> 
> Rich


I've seen those...Thanks Rich. Unfortunately, I can't easily hold those. I appreciate the suggestion.


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> I've seen those...Thanks Rich. Unfortunately, I can't easily hold those. I appreciate the suggestion.


Oh well, I thought of you when I saw it and thought it might be usable.

Rich


----------



## Jeremy W

Sixto said:


> If there's someone with better information, or someone who's willing to take the time to investigate to enable better conclusions, then that would be great.


It comes down to a very simple equation: HD GUI is supported in all HR2x/H2x receivers, where x > 0.

The HR20 and H20 don't support it, all of the others do. We've already seen the HR20 get left behind with 3D, and the H20 may as well be roadkill anyway with all of the stuff it doesn't support. This is just another nail in the coffin for those two lines. It also explains the earlier 75% comment.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rrdirectsr said:


> According to a meeting I saw the new GUI will be rolled out to about 75% of HD equipment in Q3 this year (2011). I saw the screen shots and demo and it is lightning fast and the icons are pretty cool.
> 
> Note: my comments and view points are my own and not that of DirecTV.





Jeremy W said:


> It comes down to a very simple equation: HD GUI is supported in all HR2x/H2x receivers, where x > 0.
> 
> The HR20 and H20 don't support it, all of the others do. We've already seen the HR20 get left behind with 3D, and the H20 may as well be roadkill anyway with all of the stuff it doesn't support. This is just another nail in the coffin for those two lines. It also explains the earlier 75% comment.


I suspect this is all pretty much on the right track...

Having seen all the work the past 1-2 years on getting the UI consistent across the HD device inventory...it seems safe to assume that the idea of having "one UI for all HD devices going forward would seem logical and consistent with the work done to date.


----------



## joed32

I'm still using 3 HR20s, but I would be OK without an HD GUI.


----------



## harsh

harsh said:


> Then again, the HR2x database engine seems to be pretty frail.





inkahauts said:


> Proof please..


I offer the 50 series limit.


----------



## trdrjeff

joed32 said:


> I'm still using 3 HR20s, but I would be OK without an HD GUI.


:righton: I anticipate it being a blessing...


----------



## ejjames

I'm afraid that if an HD GUI comes to everything but my 2 HR20's they may show signs of failu...woops, there goes one now...good thing I was right there with the fire extinguisher! 

Disclaimer: The preceding paragraph was fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. We fully expect to get many more years from your fine product!


----------



## davring

I'll keep my HR20's reliability over an HD GUI anyday.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> I offer the 50 series limit.


That cap is across all HD DVRs based on design.

At this time, 3D support is the only known true "limit" for the HR20 series compared to other units running the same UI platform.

You'll have to do better with your examples...good luck.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That cap is across all HD DVRs based on design.


The onus was to show proof that the database engine used in the HR2x series was "frail". I believe that the post-introduction imposition of the 50 series limit is a clear admission of that. I think we can agree that there was no user outcry for the limit to be imposed and that a part of the community views it as a deficiency.

Suggesting that the HR21-3 models (outside of the HR24) are necessarily more powerful is not supported by the relative guide speed and documented evidence of reduced processing capacity. Raw processing capability isn't everything so I've asked a follow-up question.


> At this time, 3D support is the only known true "limit" for the HR20 series compared to other units running the same UI platform.


My question to you in offering this fact in the first place: where is DIRECTV going to draw the line when, if ever, they add features (like an HD GUI) to the Plus HD line. Repeating my givens doesn't address my question, it only affirms that the question warrants an thoughtful answer.


----------



## Laxguy

Could someone please give a definition of this "50 series limit"?

Does anyone know if the guide is drawn using anything like HTML?


----------



## Go Beavs

Laxguy said:


> Could someone please give a definition of this "50 series limit"?
> 
> Does anyone know if the guide is drawn using anything like HTML?


You are limited to 50 items in your prioritizer (series manager).


----------



## Laxguy

Go Beavs said:


> You are limited to 50 items in your prioritizer (series manager).


Ah, thanks very much. I've kept mine under 30 by monthly pruning.


----------



## Laxguy

Beavs- [and all]

This is re the TV show "Portlandia", as I've just talked to an Apple support guy who's based in your city. He says that almost everyone he talks to asks him about the show, so I'd love your take on it. I've seen 3 or 4 eps, one of which stunk, others mildly amusing to a.... SF bay area guy.

Cheers.


----------



## BattleScott

Jeremy W said:


> It comes down to a very simple equation: HD GUI is supported in all HR2x/H2x receivers, where x > 0.
> 
> The HR20 and H20 don't support it, all of the others do. We've already seen the HR20 get left behind with 3D, and the H20 may as well be roadkill anyway with all of the stuff it doesn't support. This is just another nail in the coffin for those two lines. It also explains the earlier 75% comment.


It will actually be intersting to see what happens here. The BCM7401/BCM7038 dual chip solution in the HR20s would appear to be the reason that they can't support 3DTV. However, it actually offers INCREASED graphics capabilities over the single chip BCM7411 solution. The BCM7038 GPU is capable of 2D and 3D graphics, while the BCM7411 is only 2D.


----------



## Go Beavs

Laxguy said:


> Beavs- [and all]
> 
> This is re the TV show "Portlandia", as I've just talked to an Apple support guy who's based in your city. He says that almost everyone he talks to asks him about the show, so I'd love your take on it. I've seen 3 or 4 eps, one of which stunk, others mildly amusing to a.... SF bay area guy.
> 
> Cheers.


PM'd you.


----------



## ricochet

harsh said:


> The onus was to show proof that the database engine used in the HR2x series was "frail". I believe that the *post-introduction* imposition of the 50 series limit is a clear admission of that. I think we can agree that there was no user outcry for the limit to be imposed and that a part of the community views it as a deficiency.


Was the 50 limit really not present when the HR20 was first released? I've never run into it and I've never really cared but I thought it was there from the start.


----------



## Laxguy

Go Beavs said:


> PM'd you.


Thanks! Here's the next one for other potential *Portlandia* viewers.

Portlandia - Baseball
Tomorrow, 6:30 PM / IFC 559 
When the mayor is in need of assistance, he recruits Fred and Carrie to help him jumpstart a new baseball team for the residents of Portland to enjoy.


----------



## Sixto

BattleScott said:


> It will actually be interesting to see what happens here. The BCM7401/BCM7038 dual chip solution in the HR20s would appear to be the reason that they can't support 3DTV. However, it actually offers INCREASED graphics capabilities over the single chip BCM7411 solution. The BCM7038 GPU is capable of 2D and 3D graphics, while the BCM7411 is only 2D.


Yep, it's this type of info that would be helpful if an expert can post what each box is capable of.

Seems like there's at least 4 variations (HR20, HR21/22/23, HR24-500, HR24-100/200).

It would be nice to see a table of exactly what each platform is capable of, from a GUI perspective.


----------



## tonyd79

harsh said:


> I offer the 50 series limit.


That is not an example of frailty but of resource limits or a programming limit because of some buffer setting/resource allocation.

It may well be because of frailty but I would not say that a 32 bit operating system is frail because it cannot make use of a terabyte of memory.


----------



## Jeremy W

BattleScott said:


> It will actually be intersting to see what happens here. The BCM7401/BCM7038 dual chip solution in the HR20s would appear to be the reason that they can't support 3DTV. However, it actually offers INCREASED graphics capabilities over the single chip BCM7411 solution. The BCM7038 GPU is capable of 2D and 3D graphics, while the BCM7411 is only 2D.


The BCM7038 is capable of 2D and 3D, but only at SD resolutions. So while the BCM7411 can't do 3D, it can do 2D in HD. So it's a tradeoff. A good tradeoff IMO, since I think an HD GUI is more important than a 3D SD GUI.


----------



## cypherx

Speaking of 3D, what does the GUI look like on a 3D channel? Does it split up the SD gui and display it side by side or top bottom depending on the 3D Channel encoding?


Also whats with the SD boxes and the slick animation of the current video shrinking up into the PIG? If the HD gear is so much more powerful, why do they choke on simple animations?

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> Speaking of 3D, what does the GUI look like on a 3D channel? Does it split up the SD gui and display it side by side or top bottom depending on the 3D Channel encoding?


DirecTV only broadcasts side-by-side, so GUI looks like normal, except with half of the horizontal resolution. When you bring up any GUI elements, the box takes the left eye feed and duplicates it on both sides, with the same GUI components as well. Basically, it looks the same as it does in 2D but at a lower resolution. Both eyes are seeing the same thing.


cypherx said:


> Also whats with the SD boxes and the slick animation of the current video shrinking up into the PIG?


The software on those boxes is made by NDS, not DirecTV. So it's not exactly the same.


cypherx said:


> If the HD gear is so much more powerful, why do they choke on simple animations?


Who said it's "so much more powerful?"


----------



## cypherx

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV only broadcasts side-by-side, so GUI looks like normal, except with half of the horizontal resolution. When you bring up any GUI elements, the box takes the left eye feed and duplicates it on both sides, with the same GUI components as well. Basically, it looks the same as it does in 2D but at a lower resolution. Both eyes are seeing the same thing.
> 
> The software on those boxes is made by NDS, not DirecTV. So it's not exactly the same.
> 
> Who said it's "so much more powerful?"


You would think it has to be, to handle processing of HD, DVR features, media share and multiroom.

The SD stuff is made by NDS, sure looks the same to what's on the HD box. DirecTV did a good job copying the look of it.

I like animations and transition effects. It creates a polished feel that focuses your attention to the right screen elements. I see them every day on my computer and iphone.

I'm also curious if the current guide or next gen guide supports EBIF applications and triggering. Also, if the next gen guide is written in Java or some other higher level language, so that it's easier ported to other hardware. There can be some good visual effects with Java, but depending on the JIT compiler and execution, it can be slower.


----------



## harsh

tonyd79 said:


> That is not an example of frailty but of resource limits or a programming limit because of some buffer setting/resource allocation.


Frailty can be real or self-imposed.


> It may well be because of frailty but I would not say that a 32 bit operating system is frail because it cannot make use of a terabyte of memory.


Given that the Prioritizer shouldn't need to shuffle more than a few kilobytes of data, 16 bit address space seems more than enough.

This all speaks to limitations that are maintained in the interest of commonality. Given that environment, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect that something as fundamental as a GUI would be delivered according to seemingly arbitrary divisions.


----------



## bobcamp1

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That [50 series link limit] is across all HD DVRs based on very poor design.


You forgot two words...but I underlined them for you. :grin:

I used to think that there was no hurry for an HD GUI. But when I used the red button menu during the Masters, the overlay menu looked really ugly when it was in the foreground of a stunning HD picture. Also, the mix channel (701) was 720p, and the text used for the leaderboard (which was part of the transmission) was crisp. It made the built-in DVR menus look even uglier.

Even with PIP you can see the tiny picture in the upper-right is much more clearer than the menus.

I don't even think it's SD vs. HD. I think polishing the graphics and the fonts will go a long way towards helping things, even if they remain in SD. My Series 1 Tivo has better fonts and still looked pretty good even when shown on an 50" screen -- something it was never designed to do. The HR24, which you'd think was designed for large screen TVs, does not always look as good.


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> I like animations and transition effects. It creates a polished feel that focuses your attention to the right screen elements.


I hate animations and transition effects. They are just fluff that indicate wasted progamming and testing that could be put to better use as well as device usage that could be doing other things. They also usually slow things down because of the transition time.

As for drawing your attention, why would you want your attention drawn to the PIG? You want it drawn to the guide, etc.


----------



## cypherx

It's nice because it defines the relationship of where the PIG is going and where the guide grows into the screen. It's also adds a nice smooth feel rather than a jarring one.

Animations and transition effects are a common occurance on modern day operating system and devices. We have some Windows 7 Computers (but mostly Windows XP) at work. Everyone who goes on the one Windows 7 scanning computer comments on how "smooth" it feels and how much they like how it looks. These are people ranging from little to moderate computer literacy. These types of things are noticed. I know a lot of people noticed this with Mac OS X when they had many graphic effects long before Windows did. People always comment on how "smooth" the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad operating system and programs work as well. Also how smooth graphics move around on the screen with xbox 360, ps3, or even Wii (though it is in SD).

Microsoft even publishes guidelines stating "Strategic use of animations and transitions can make your program easier to understand, feel smoother, more natural, and of higher quality, and be more engaging. But the gratuitous use of animations and transitions can make your program distracting and even annoying."

There is a full article on it here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511285.aspx

I understand your concern about animations taking time, and Microsoft has that same concern, but when used properly people really take notice. If written in a high level language such as Java, routines can be created once and called when needed. It's not like they are going to spend months on animations. This code is reused all over the place.


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> It's nice because it defines the relationship of where the PIG is going and where the guide grows into the screen. It's also adds a nice smooth feel rather than a jarring one.
> 
> Animations and transition effects are a common occurance on modern day operating system and devices. We have some Windows 7 Computers (but mostly Windows XP) at work. Everyone who goes on the one Windows 7 scanning computer comments on how "smooth" it feels and how much they like how it looks. These are people ranging from little to moderate computer literacy. These types of things are noticed. I know a lot of people noticed this with Mac OS X when they had many graphic effects long before Windows did. People always comment on how "smooth" the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad operating system and programs work as well. Also how smooth graphics move around on the screen with xbox 360, ps3, or even Wii (though it is in SD).
> 
> Microsoft even publishes guidelines stating "Strategic use of animations and transitions can make your program easier to understand, feel smoother, more natural, and of higher quality, and be more engaging. But the gratuitous use of animations and transitions can make your program distracting and even annoying."
> 
> There is a full article on it here:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511285.aspx
> 
> I understand your concern about animations taking time, and Microsoft has that same concern, but when used properly people really take notice. If written in a high level language such as Java, routines can be created once and called when needed. It's not like they are going to spend months on animations. This code is reused all over the place.


I know a lot about computers. I support computer based tools on a regular basis and I know that fancy graphics is NOT an indicator of how good software is or isn't.

Then you go and quote Microsoft coding standards, which are a complete joke among my coworkers.

This is the company that gave us ribbons in Office.

No thanks.

Give me performance and functionality and leave fancy computer graphics to movies and cartoons.


----------



## jpl

tonyd79 said:


> Slightly off topic. Fios started rolling out their new software which includes an HD menuing system. First sightings this week. Beta has been going on for months. Takes Verizon a long time to get it to everyone. Maybe mid year or so.


Not to get too OT, but I'm one of those beta testers. To answer some of the questions that I've seen about how other providers handle the issue with resolution, here's what I can tell you about what Verizon has:

- It has two different modes - you can keep the old 4:3 guide (with new color palate) or update to the 16:9 HD guide with this s/w. That's done so that 4:3 TVs don't have the 16:9 guide squeezed onto them, which makes it darn near unreadable. Also, some of their older hardware (the QIP-6416 DVR, e.g.) can't handle the HD guide, so by default on those boxes you get the 4:3 version of the guide. On their other boxes I can opt to switch between the two different guides.

- It handles native passthrough just fine. I haven't tried it, but every comment I've read by those who HAVE tried it... it works.

- The guide is, I believe, coming out at 720p, and is distinct from the AR of the video feed itself. Granted, I have the SD override on my box turned off, so it doesn't switch between HD and SD resolutions, but I'm darn near 100% sure that if I put my SD resolution at say 480i, but left my HD resolution at 1080i, that the guide would be utterly unaffected - I would get the HD guide even on an SD channel showing up in the guide. Something to test when I get home .

I don't know what limitations the DirecTV hardware has with regard to this, but clearly it can be done - making the guide AR independent from the PIG AR, and still maintaining native passthrough. Just food for thought.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes there will be.


I hope you are right. But I think 2012 is more realistic.


----------



## aa9vi

I would be happy if when I pressed a number button on the remote it took less than 2s to appear on the screen. Maybe they can try that new innovative concept instead of making the GUI more bloated with useless add-ons.

Yea! I can play SODUKU.
Yea! I can get my horoscope.
I don't care. Just make the firmware less bloated and make the remote respond better.


----------



## Hoosier205

SPACEMAKER said:


> I hope you are right. But I think 2012 is more realistic.


Nope. 2011.


----------



## cypherx

tonyd79 said:


> I know a lot about computers. I support computer based tools on a regular basis and I know that fancy graphics is NOT an indicator of how good software is or isn't.
> 
> Then you go and quote Microsoft coding standards, which are a complete joke among my coworkers.
> 
> This is the company that gave us ribbons in Office.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> Give me performance and functionality and leave fancy computer graphics to movies and cartoons.


Well let's agree to disagree.

It's not microsoft coding standards I'm quoting.. it's user interface guidelines for animations and transitions. Were not talking about how to manipulate data in a visual studio programming working with an access database.. were talking visual design. Which quite frankly, greatly improved over the years.

It's quite interesting to hear, even from non tech-savvy users that they have good things to say about the newer windows 7 computers, vs. the windows xp computers. They all say that it feels smooth, looks really nice and fluid and is a pleasure to use.

As far as the ribbon, yes it was such a dramatic change. However we've been starting to roll out Office 2010. The thing is putting tools in proper categories aids in organization. When you get used to it, it makes perfect sense. You can even customize your most common used tools at the top of the screen.

Anyway, were not here to talk about computers. My point is, there's validity in modern user interface design that deals with the "special effects". There's no reason why a program cannot function properly, smoothly and perform as expected with "special effects" thrown in. As long as:
-The perceived wait is extremely brief (200 milliseconds or less).
-The transition makes the interaction feel more smooth and natural.
-The transition makes the interaction feel more responsive.
-Any delay helps keep the user in control of the interaction.

It's a successful transition effect. I would welcome proper use of cross-fades, slides, scene transitions, zooms while providing a smooth and continuous feel. My cell phone does it. My computer does it, my xbox does it, my wii does it, my boxee does it. The DirecTV iPad app does it. Why not my primary TV viewing experience get with the program? It adds a little bit of personality, rather than a boring mundane and jarring experience.

Again nothing against you. I appreciate and understand where your coming from. Animations and effects don't make the program. IMO they can be used to enhance the user experience if done correctly. I think I stated how I personally feel on it, as you stated your view. Whatever comes out of DirecTV is not in either of our control, so lets just see what happens.


----------



## harsh

tonyd79 said:


> This is the company that gave us ribbons in Office.


Ribbons are showing up elsewhere as well. Microsoft toadie Autodesk is using them to exceedingly poor effect.

Ribbons don't invalidate what Microsoft has to say about GUI design, but they are surely a 400+ yard golf drive in that direction.

The real drawback of animation, blurring due to display persistence, is mostly a memory now so as long as it is smooth and doesn't obviously overtax the system or block out response to input, it isn't a bad thing.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Hoosier205 said:


> Nope. 2011.


We shall see...


----------



## Jeremy W

SPACEMAKER said:


> We shall see...


DirecTV is already giving demos to their call center employees. It's going to happen this year.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV is already giving demos to their call center employees. It's going to happen this year.


Shhhhhh....


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> Well let's agree to disagree.


We will have to as an instant redraw takes less time to do than any affect. Therefore, even if it does not impact the computer itself, it impacts ME. Why should I wait for a fade affect when it is not necessary? I prefer my TV to come on instantly, my lights to not "warm up" like CFLs do. Why should I waste the extra time it takes to have something fade in, or grow in.

BTW, your experience with computer users is exactly the opposite of mine with hundreds of people I come in contact with. They tend to turn off the fancy graphics on their PCs when they want to and I have yet to meet a single user in my job that prefers Windows 7 and they all HATE the latest versions of Office.


----------



## tonyd79

harsh said:


> Ribbons are showing up elsewhere as well. Microsoft toadie Autodesk is using them to exceedingly poor effect.


Well, then they are following Microsoft's pattern. The ribbons in Office make it take longer to just about any task. Especially ones more complicated than change the font size.

(I believe that Autocad ribbons can be turned off and revert to the old GUI. I think I heard that in a meeting; I don't run Autodesk software myself.)



harsh said:


> Ribbons don't invalidate what Microsoft has to say about GUI design, but they are surely a 400+ yard golf drive in that direction.


No, the rest of Windows 7 does that. 



harsh said:


> The real drawback of animation, blurring due to display persistence, is mostly a memory now so as long as it is smooth and doesn't obviously overtax the system or block out response to input, it isn't a bad thing.


There is a drawback of responsiveness to the user. When they put the slow rollout of items in the Start Menu versus the instant, you could toggle them and FEEL the lag from going to menu to menu because of style, not because of computer lag. If something is designed to take a large fraction of a second rather than a millisecond, you notice it and it feels like drag.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> I have yet to meet a single user in my job that prefers Windows 7 and they all HATE the latest versions of Office.


I'd hate to work with you. I've never met anyone who *didn't* prefer Windows 7, although Office is more of a mixed bag.

If you don't prefer Windows 7 (over XP or Vista), you should probably spend less time on your computer and more time yelling at kids to get off your lawn. There are probably some kids on your lawn right now!


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> I'd hate to work with you. I've never met anyone who *didn't* prefer Windows 7, although Office is more of a mixed bag.
> 
> If you don't prefer Windows 7 (over XP or Vista), you should probably spend less time on your computer and more time yelling at kids to get off your lawn. There are probably some kids on your lawn right now!


Now that is just a stupid thing to say. There are a lot of stupid things they did in Windows 7 and I have to do some support items in Windows 7 that make that task more difficult.

We are using Windows in an engineering environment and it stinks for that. We have a lot of engineering tools that have to sit on top of it and there is little give in the OS for that kind of work.

Also, what type of stupid operating system asks you over and over again if you want to do something. With Windows 7 it got worse. If I have full administration rights over a PC, it asks me if I want to grant rights to myself to do something. Well, duh.

XP has issues, but why change the interface to fix them? It is the new car syndrome from when Detroit held sway. Make change just to make change. Wow and dazzle the toothless with magic transitions and animations. How about just making the damned thing work right?

And you would love to work with me. I am very popular and make things happen. Just because I don't act like every program has to be a video game, you have decided that I am an old fogey? Moronic.


----------



## cypherx

Jeremy W said:


> I've never met anyone who *didn't* prefer Windows 7, although Office is more of a mixed bag.


We have a mixed bag of age groups at work. Lots of Gen-Y and Gen-X'ers, but a few older generation as well.

What I'm finding out is that overall a lot of people like Windows 7. The only ones that are a little cautious are the older folk who are just used to what they have. As far as deploying Windows 7, we have a lot of the younger people asking for it. They beg, like we sometimes beg on this forum for HD channels. They are always saying "When can I get windows 7!" The older people don't make a big deal about it.

I've had a few requests for Office 2010, and funny thing is that they are all younger folk in their early 30's and mid 20's. It seems that the younger folk are easier to accept change and want to see the latest stuff on their workstation.

I know that is getting a little off topic, but to relate this to the HD GUI... I think a lot of the younger generation are going to embrace it and expect a similar graphical experience that they get on their computers, phones and game consoles. These are the same customers who are driving intense growth in the entertainment sector. Young adults who are getting their first homes, starting families and getting their life in order. These people are the latest consumer generation... sort of the baby boomers kids. There's a lot out there and it's a hot marketing target. So DirecTV most likely wants to appeal to them, like Verizon and Comcast are working on their next generation guides. I mean look at DirecTV now, with a Social TV app, a big presence on Facebook and Twitter, and also mobile and ipad apps. They are shifting focus to appeal to the next big moneymakers before they leave for over the top video. Not that they want to alienate their older customers, but this latest generation presents a TREMENDOUS growth opportunity.

What DirecTV can do with the new software is yet to be seen. Were still not 100% on what these chipsets can squeeze out of them, before requiring a complete product retooling. I'm sure they can only do so much. If there's a few fancy 'frills', great! If they simply can't do it, well maybe that will come in the next generation guide when the hardware has advanced with Intel CE4100 or even more powerful SoC's on-board that can push those type of processor intense operations.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Also, what type of stupid operating system asks you over and over again if you want to do something.


A secure one.


tonyd79 said:


> With Windows 7 it got worse.


Are you kidding me? The UAC prompts went way down with Windows 7.


tonyd79 said:


> If I have full administration rights over a PC, it asks me if I want to grant rights to myself to do something. Well, duh.


You do realize you can very easily disable that, right?


tonyd79 said:


> XP has issues, but why change the interface to fix them?


By and large, the interface changes were not to fix issues, but to make things easier to use. And I'd say that the goal was accomplished. It's worth upgrading to Windows 7 just for the Taskbar alone. I absolutely love it.


tonyd79 said:


> Just because I don't act like every program has to be a video game, you have decided that I am an old fogey?


It has nothing to do with every program being a "video game" and everything to do with sticking to "the way things have always been done."


tonyd79 said:


> Moronic.


Right back atcha.


----------



## Sixto

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV is already giving demos to their call center employees. It's going to happen this year.


Cool ...

People should post what they can ...

Thx.

BTW, really enjoying Windows 7, just moved from XP. Also, I always turn off animation for low-end devices (STBs, mobile, ...)


----------



## Jeremy W

Sixto said:


> People should post what they can ...


They already have...


----------



## Sixto

Jeremy W said:


> They already have...


Hmmm. Guess I'm not looking hard enough.


----------



## cypherx

Jeremy W said:


> They already have...


Yeah I'm blind. I have to look harder myself. This thread is where it belongs.


----------



## cypherx

Found this, but its a fan mock up from awhile ago.

And here's some pics of what Comcast was working on:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20099838-Some-new-Guide-Images-and-Motorola-SDV-Manager


----------



## Joe C

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV is already giving demos to their call center employees. It's going to happen this year.


Why do the drones that answer the phone have to "know" about the HD GUI ? To me that means there are more changes then just the addition of clear text. Are items/features being moved around also ?


----------



## trainman

Joe C said:


> Why do the drones that answer the phone have to "know" about the HD GUI ?


'Cause they're the ones who'll have to answer the "the words on my TV box done gone all screwy" calls after the GUI gets updated.

But also...because they're DirecTV employees, and companies like to keep their employees informed about major initiatives/changes, even if not all employees are directly affected.


----------



## Jeremy W

Joe C said:


> Why do the drones that answer the phone have to "know" about the HD GUI ? To me that means there are more changes then just the addition of clear text. Are items/features being moved around also ?


It's a new GUI, not just an HD version of the one we have now. I don't expect it to be totally different, but there will definitely be differences.


----------



## mx6bfast

I don't see a difference in what we currently have.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> Here's a possibility of what it *might* look like........[from CES floor, an RVU demo]


Are you just trying to be funny? That's the current GUI...


----------



## Joe C

Jeremy W said:


> It's a new GUI, not just an HD version of the one we have now. I don't expect it to be totally different, but there will definitely be differences.


Thanks for the clarification. Does this mean closed captioning is moving from the yellow button ? I hope the answer is no.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Joe C said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Does this mean closed captioning is moving from the yellow button ? I hope the answer is no.


When in the guide the yellow button is always guide options. It is for CC when you are watching a program.


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> Are you just trying to be funny? That's the current GUI...


No, no joke, just a mistake. There was nearby a demo that included an HD guide. Because I took the photo with an iPhone, and it looks pretty sharp, I mistook it for HD. I'll look later to see if I can find the one of the HD guide, or perhaps 'Fan has one....


----------



## Hoosier205

I have my guesses regarding the new GUI. I am guessing...that we have recently seen hints of what it may look like via a new feature.


----------



## Laxguy

Laxguy said:


> No, no joke, just a mistake. There was nearby a demo that included an HD guide. Because I took the photo with an iPhone, and it looks pretty sharp, I mistook it for HD. I'll look later to see if I can find the one of the HD guide, or perhaps 'Fan has one....


Come to think again, and I'll not post what I took at CES, as some things are prohibited to be photo'd or shared.


----------



## Laxguy

mx6bfast said:


> I don't see a difference in what we currently have.


You are right- my mistake. I also removed the post and image, as there were other elements in it that perhaps ought not be shown outside of CES.


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> Come to think again, and I'll not post what I took at CES, as some things are prohibited to be photo'd or shared.


AFAIK, anything that isn't in a private demo session at CES is allowed to be shared. But nothing wrong with covering your butt.


----------



## cypherx

I think it may look like the ipad app. That's ok, I think the ipad app looks pretty neat. The fonts and graphics have a sharp, modern look. But the ipad is what, 1024x768 or something? Not true HD, but it's almost close to 720p.


----------



## Drucifer

Jeremy W said:


> *It's a new GUI*, not just an HD version of the one we have now. I don't expect it to be totally different, but there will definitely be differences.


Wish whoever is doing it, would put up some screen shots.

Having different sizes for different TV screen size would be nice. I mean our television screen range now is like 5 inches to over 70. Having the same guide for both seem ridicules to me.


----------



## Laxguy

Drucifer said:


> Wish whoever is doing it, would put up some screen shots.
> 
> Having different sizes for different TV screen size would be nice. I mean our television screen range now is like 5 inches to over 70. Having the same guide for both seem ridicules to me.


Mine scales reasonably well, and I bet the new Guide will scale even better. Something like scaleable fonts on web pages in combo with something like HTML.


----------



## cypherx

Well I know if they ever do a public beta, I'd sign up to test it.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## tonyd79

"cypherx" said:


> Well I know if they ever do a public beta, I'd sign up to test it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Last major GUI update was done via the cutting edge.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> I think it may look like the ipad app.


It will look like the iPad app, that's been all but confirmed.


----------



## ejjames

Would one of you kindly post an image of the ipad app?

Thank You in advance.


----------



## Jeremy W

ejjames said:


> Would one of you kindly post an image of the ipad app?


http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/directv/mobile_apps/ipad

and

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/directv-app-for-ipad/id421547368?mt=8


----------



## cypherx

Jeremy W said:


> It will look like the iPad app, that's been all but confirmed.


Well I like the look of the ipad app, so that's a great start.

The fonts, the graphics, the drop shadows behind elements, the 'smoothness' of it, the way menus move on the screen, the sharp logo's, the high contrast, etc...

If it "feels" like an iOS app, in terms of that smooth liquid quick but polished visuals and that subtle animated flow to it, then hey that's even better.

I hope that we get options to see more channels by more time in the grid display than our current guide. I also hope that Search is highlighted more. Rather than going into the menu and arrowing down to it. An optional wireless qwerty remote, or qwerty remote via iphone/ipad/android app would be pretty neat too.

The only thing is that the ipad app is 1024x768. So it's not 1920x1080 or 1280x720. But earlier generation plasma TV's (like my 42" Samsung) is 1024x768 with rectangular pixels, and I tell you my TV looks great. Maybe that type of resolution would be easier on the processors in the HR / H receivers than trying to pump out a full 1920x1080 pixel resolution. Or heck, what do we know... maybe they will scale it with slightly higher res graphics and actually push out 1080i/p. Either way both resolutions would present a better looking display than what we see today.

I look forward to being a part of a CE test, and when that time comes, I will participate in the proper forum on here.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> I hope that we get options to see more channels by more time in the grid display than our current guide.


If we don't, I would consider the HD GUI a failure. However, I would be shocked if they don't expand the amount of info available at one time in the guide.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> If we don't, I would consider the HD GUI a failure. However, I would be shocked if they don't expand the amount of info available at one time in the guide.


I don't believe people will be disappointed.

More screen real estate means more content space.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

From today's Morning Bridge at MediaBiz:



> Tech: Watch for a new user interface for DIRECTV receivers in the fourth quarter with lots of emphasis on high-tech, high-speed internet, social connections and the like. According to execs at DIRECTV's dealer meet in New Orleans, the company's iPad app has been downloaded 215K times and new features will allow for mobility, more website streaming etc.


----------



## cypherx

Told you, I anticipate it at 4th Quarter, barring any technical issues or setbacks.

So they better start a testing program soon, so testers and programmers can work out the issues in time.


----------



## TomK

Having an HR23 receiver, I miss the Tivo grid guide more than anything. Being able to see the next 12-24 hours or so on the channel I am currently watching was wonderful and I hate only being able to see 2-3 hours ahead when I press the guide button. I can hope for a better guide display.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

cypherx said:


> Told you, I anticipate it at *4th Quarter, barring any technical issues or setbacks*.
> 
> So they better start a testing program soon, so testers and programmers can work out the issues in time.


Some of us have been forecasting that for some time. 

It would not be surprising to see plenty of internal testing prior to any CE testing of the new UI...not expecting to see any signs of testing until the internal work passes....plenty of time still before any 4Q launch.


----------



## bobcamp1

cypherx said:


> It's nice because it defines the relationship of where the PIG is going and where the guide grows into the screen. It's also adds a nice smooth feel rather than a jarring one.
> 
> Animations and transition effects are a common occurance on modern day operating system and devices. We have some Windows 7 Computers (but mostly Windows XP) at work. Everyone who goes on the one Windows 7 scanning computer comments on how "smooth" it feels and how much they like how it looks. These are people ranging from little to moderate computer literacy. These types of things are noticed. I know a lot of people noticed this with Mac OS X when they had many graphic effects long before Windows did. People always comment on how "smooth" the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad operating system and programs work as well. Also how smooth graphics move around on the screen with xbox 360, ps3, or even Wii (though it is in SD).
> 
> Microsoft even publishes guidelines stating "Strategic use of animations and transitions can make your program easier to understand, feel smoother, more natural, and of higher quality, and be more engaging. But the gratuitous use of animations and transitions can make your program distracting and even annoying."
> 
> There is a full article on it here:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511285.aspx
> 
> I understand your concern about animations taking time, and Microsoft has that same concern, but when used properly people really take notice. If written in a high level language such as Java, routines can be created once and called when needed. It's not like they are going to spend months on animations. This code is reused all over the place.


I was with you right up until you said the word "java." I winced. Java is not meant to run on embedded systems. D* would have to take the concepts and rewrite the code. It's not rocket science, but it isn't trivial.

The look of the product does matter. You can tell D* has recently been paying attention. The H(R)24 and H25 units look sleeker. Now they just need the GUI to match.


----------



## fireponcoal

I've really liked what i've seen of the iPad app but since i'm not currently in possession of an iPad I'll have to wait for the iPhone one... If the GUI looks anything like the app it will be beautiful. 

Noticed that 1.9 has rolled out for some FiOS users today. Curious to check out their HD GUI when it reaches Philly .


----------



## cypherx

fireponcoal said:


> Noticed that 1.9 has rolled out for some FiOS users today. Curious to check out their HD GUI when it reaches Philly .


Here is the release notes from Verizon in case anyone wanted to check it out and make comparisons.
http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Verizo...ive-Media-Guide-1-9-Release-Notes/ba-p/301355


----------



## hdtvfan0001

The new UI will indeed be a change and far more graphical in nature. Based on having more screen real estate, they should have the space to present more content as needed.

All that said...I spend about 99.5% of my time watching the content and 0.5% using the UI...so while it will be neat to have new things...the overall impact is actually not that big a deal.


----------



## sigma1914

cypherx said:


> Here is the release notes from Verizon in case anyone wanted to check it out and make comparisons.
> http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Verizo...ive-Media-Guide-1-9-Release-Notes/ba-p/301355


Is this the old one?










And this the new one?










I like the new one...That 1st one is horrible.


----------



## cypherx

You got it.

The new one does have a pillarboxed version for lesser powered set tops.

Per the link:
_* high definition resolution graphics and smooth animations require Cisco HD capable set-top boxes or Motorola 7000 series devices_

Not sure how their Cisco or Motorola 7000 processing capability compares to DirecTV. If it's similar, well then we know those types of things are possible.


----------



## jpl

cypherx said:


> You got it.
> 
> The new one does have a pillarboxed version for lesser powered set tops.
> 
> Per the link:
> _* high definition resolution graphics and smooth animations require Cisco HD capable set-top boxes or Motorola 7000 series devices_
> 
> Not sure how their Cisco or Motorola 7000 processing capability compares to DirecTV. If it's similar, well then we know those types of things are possible.


It's funny that they included that picture in the release notes for the 'after' shot. That's an old picture, although it's very close to what's in the guide. The most obvious is the fact that the PIG ended up on the left instead of the right. Although, like I said, it's darn close. The issue with the older Moto boxes, btw, has to do with the graphics card in those boxes. It can't handle the HD guide. As a result those boxes are by default given a 4:3 version of the guide, and all newer Moto HD boxes, and the Cisco boxes, give you the option to run either the 4:3 or 16:9 guide - btw, the 16:9 doesn't just apply to the guide itself, but to all the menus and info bars on the screen as well, so if you have an HD box on an SD TV (like I do) you want to have the ability to get to the 4:3 guide if you want (the 16:9 guide on a 4:3 TV is darn near unreadable).


----------



## Beerstalker

TomK said:


> Having an HR23 receiver, I miss the Tivo grid guide more than anything. Being able to see the next 12-24 hours or so on the channel I am currently watching was wonderful and I hate only being able to see 2-3 hours ahead when I press the guide button. I can hope for a better guide display.


Did you realize that once you are in the guide you can hit the left button to highlight the channel number and hit info and then it will show the next 10 or so (don't remember the exact number) programs on that channel? Then you can scroll or page down to see further ahead.


----------



## Laxguy

TomK said:


> Having an HR23 receiver, I miss the Tivo grid guide more than anything. Being able to see the next 12-24 hours or so on the channel I am currently watching was wonderful and I hate only being able to see 2-3 hours ahead when I press the guide button. I can hope for a better guide display.


Hit the blue button. Then right arrow as much to the future as you wish. Up to a fortnight.


----------



## joed32

TomK said:


> Having an HR23 receiver, I miss the Tivo grid guide more than anything. Being able to see the next 12-24 hours or so on the channel I am currently watching was wonderful and I hate only being able to see 2-3 hours ahead when I press the guide button. I can hope for a better guide display.


When in the guide, try moving the cursor all the way to the left until the channel number is highlighted and then hit "Info". It ain't the Tivo guide but it's similar. You can scroll down to check what's coming up on that channel.

Sorry Beerstalker, I'm a slow typist.


----------



## Joe C

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The new UI will indeed be a change and far more graphical in nature.


So the question becomes... how will the underpowered models in the HR series handle the more graphical interface ? Will they get even slower ?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Joe C said:


> So the question becomes... how will the underpowered models in the HR series handle the more graphical interface ? Will they get even slower ?


Your descriptions of underpowered would be based on what?

Since no one knows how the new UI is coded...that assumption would be more editorial comment than fact.

In fact it is equally possible that the current code is "fat", with new UI being "thinner"....think Vista vs WIN7 (40% thinner code). That would mean things could actually be faster in screen presentation.

There's plenty of horsepower in the HD DVRs...it comes down to how it is used within the firmware design and code itself.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Seems like 1st quarter 2012 is a realistic time frame.


----------



## fireponcoal

Here is a nice little YouTube clip I found of 1.9.


----------



## Hoosier205

SPACEMAKER said:


> Seems like 1st quarter 2012 is a realistic time frame.


Why would you think that? It is expected this year...not next year.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

fireponcoal said:


> Here is a nice little YouTube clip I found of 1.9.


That GUI looks very cool. Since FiOS beat DIRECTV to the punch, I really hope DIRECTV counters with a knockout blow. Anything less will be a bummer!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hutchinshouse said:


> That GUI looks very cool. Since FiOS beat DIRECTV to the punch, I really hope DIRECTV counters with a knockout blow. Anything less will be a bummer!


Neither UI interface shown in the FIOS examples are anything very unique or special IMHO.

A grid with graphics is a grid with graphics.


----------



## itzme

Hutchinshouse said:


> That GUI looks very cool. Since FiOS beat DIRECTV to the punch, I really hope DIRECTV counters with a knockout blow. Anything less will be a bummer!


My thoughts exactly! Of course no GUI will look that good (if) when its cluttered with ads


----------



## Hutchinshouse

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Neither UI interface shown in the FIOS examples are anything very unique or special IMHO.
> 
> A grid with graphics is a grid with graphics.


From what I've seen in pics and video so far, I'd be happy to have it.

Here are a few more pics. The widgets layout looks cool too.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/18/verizon-fios-set-top-boxes-getting-a-new-hd-guide-external-stor/


----------



## xmguy

cypherx said:


> Told you, I anticipate it at 4th Quarter, barring any technical issues or setbacks.
> 
> So they better start a testing program soon, so testers and programmers can work out the issues in time.


Yes Beta Testers!


----------



## bjamin82

As happy as I will be with HD UI and more content... ect... I would completely settle for anything that was simply faster and more responsive.


----------



## jasondm4

One thing i really hope they fix is the UI to actually detect what channels your subsribed to like for example when i select the "Channels i Get" list it throws in a bunch of channels i don't even subsribe to. It's very annoying.


----------



## Hoosier205

bjamin82 said:


> As happy as I will be with HD UI and more content... ect... I would completely settle for anything that was simply faster and more responsive.


I'm hoping for all of that and more.


----------



## Laxguy

jasondm4 said:


> One thing i really hope they fix is the UI to actually detect what channels your subsribed to like for example when i select the "Channels i Get" list it throws in a bunch of channels i don't even subsribe to. It's very annoying.


Don't be annoyed! 

Just set up a custom list. Then you won't also get annoyed at some of the channels you do get but dislike.....


----------



## makaiguy

Do I remember correctly that somewhere it was said that the new HD UI won't work on HR20s, only 21 and higher? If so, is this speculation or known fact at this point?


----------



## spartanstew

Hutchinshouse said:


> That GUI looks very cool.


I like the chaptering feature.


----------



## LameLefty

makaiguy said:


> Do I remember correctly that somewhere it was said that the new HD UI won't work on HR20s, only 21 and higher? If so, is this speculation or known fact at this point?


No one knows. Or if they do know, they wouldn't be able to talk about it.


----------



## cypherx

I like that Fios IMG video! It looks more like media center with how smooth and fluid things move around. I hope DirecTV looks at it and counters with something better.

We have an ongoing joke about Fios a work. "Fios: the service nobody can get!". Seriously we see commercials on TV all the time, but no one can get it because there are no Fios lines around.

I hope the HR's are up to the task!

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Hutchinshouse

spartanstew said:


> I like the chaptering feature.


Yeah, that feature looks sweet. Come in real handy with my kids.

I just like the overall clean look.

I'm so ready for DIRECTV to release their version.


----------



## Laxguy

cypherx said:


> I like that Fios IMG video! It looks more like media center with how smooth and fluid things move around. I hope DirecTV looks at it and counters with something better.
> 
> We have an ongoing joke about Fios a work. "Fios: the service nobody can get!". Seriously we see commercials on TV all the time, but no one can get it because there are no Fios lines around.
> << Snipped bits out >>


Commercials I've seen here are more Comcast blasting the competition and showing they are welcoming back customers who defected to U-Verse. In my neighborhood, no sign of U-verse or FIOS. U-verse is not far away, but FIOS may as well be light years.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

Bring it on!!! Need a change to the guide for once and eliminate some of them useless banners!!!


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Hoosier205 said:


> Why would you think that? It is expected this year...not next year.


Because things like this tend to be delayed. I am hoping it arrives in 2011 so we shall see.


----------



## cypherx

HDTVFreak07 said:


> Bring it on!!! Need a change to the guide for once and eliminate some of them useless banners!!!


I hate the banners too. Especially when I type in 501 to get to HBO, there's 4 G.D. banners clogging up the screen. I typed 501 because I want to see that at the top of the guide. I could understand if I typed 500 or anything less, I would see it, but geeze, this thing is horrible lately. I sure hope they lighten up on that in the HD GUI.

Also I like how Verizon IMG has one click access to search with their blue button. Maybe DirecTV could do a one click search with one of the color buttons. I would surely welcome that, especially if it's a universal search for TV, VOD, YouTube and a unified MR-DVR playlist. There sure is A LOT of content out there, so search can help.


----------



## kevinwmsn

jasondm4 said:


> One thing i really hope they fix is the UI to actually detect what channels your subsribed to like for example when i select the "Channels i Get" list it throws in a bunch of channels i don't even subsribe to. It's very annoying.


I agree with you on that, a HD GUI won't fix it. It's mostly fixed for channels in 200-300s. They really need to fix the 600s(RSNs).


----------



## Jeremy W

makaiguy said:


> Do I remember correctly that somewhere it was said that the new HD UI won't work on HR20s, only 21 and higher? If so, is this speculation or known fact at this point?


This is a known fact. What is not known is if the HR20 will receive a 16:9 SD version of the HD GUI, or if the HD GUI isn't actually HD at all, and will be 16:9 SD on all receivers. Or the HR20 could just be declared EOL and won't receive any GUI update.


----------



## jasondm4

Also another thing i hope they update which they usually do but not all of them is the channel logos. They update certain ones quite often in software updates but some never even get a logo like BET HD and a few others.


----------



## Laxguy

jasondm4 said:


> Also another thing i hope they update which they usually do but not all of them is the channel logos. They update certain ones quite often in software updates but some never even get a logo like BET HD and a few others.


Until others have mentioned this, I've paid scant attention to logos. The ones I looked at recently were new, small and Lo-Def.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

jasondm4 said:


> Also another thing i hope they update which they usually do but not all of them is the channel logos. They update certain ones quite often in software updates but some never even get a logo like BET HD and a few others.


odd that they updated some of the CSN's but not CSN CHI logo to have the channle name in the logo.


----------



## Elganja

Jeremy W said:


> This is a known fact. What is not known is if the HR20 will receive a 16:9 SD version of the HD GUI, or if the HD GUI isn't actually HD at all, and will be 16:9 SD on all receivers. Or the HR20 could just be declared EOL and won't receive any GUI update.


wow... why? this really pisses me off (i have 2 hr20's).


----------



## Jeremy W

Elganja said:


> wow... why? this really pisses me off (i have 2 hr20's).


The HR20 uses the older BCM7038 chip (released in 2003) that cannot handle an HD GUI. The HR21/22/23 use the BCM7401 (released in 2006) which can handle an HD GUI. The HR24 is a different animal, with the -500 using a totally different chip and the -100 using an unknown Broadcom chip, however it's a safe bet that they both support an HD GUI.

The reality is that the HR20 is almost five years old now, which is an eternity in the technology world. It's not surprising that it can't keep up with everything DirecTV is offering now.


----------



## cypherx

jasondm4 said:


> Also another thing i hope they update which they usually do but not all of them is the channel logos. They update certain ones quite often in software updates but some never even get a logo like BET HD and a few others.


I agree.. it's a nice way to see what channel your on at a glance (logos are more quickly recognizable than reading text). Like right now HBO Signature doesn't even have a logo, it just says HBOS.. in big letters.

But you never see them in the guide, because there's no logo's next to the channel, or if your selected on one it's the cover art that appears at the top. I like Verizon's implementation where they are all visible. That helps me in a 500+ channel universe. It also helps with branding each network. I'm sure the networks are appreciative when their logo is visible as it's kind of subliminal advertising to their brand.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> I'm sure the networks are appreciative when their logo is visible as it's kind of subliminal advertising to their brand.


There's nothing subliminal about sticking a network's logo on the screen. :lol:


----------



## jpl

cypherx said:


> I like that Fios IMG video! It looks more like media center with how smooth and fluid things move around. I hope DirecTV looks at it and counters with something better.
> 
> We have an ongoing joke about Fios a work. "Fios: the service nobody can get!". Seriously we see commercials on TV all the time, but no one can get it because there are no Fios lines around.
> 
> I hope the HR's are up to the task!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Since it's my job or something  I figured I'd give some response to this. First, I like the joke. Second, realize that that IMG You Tube video is a simulation. It's not the real thing. The s/w does have some of the animation moves that you see, but I think they're exaggerated in the YouTube video. Some of the stuff is downright wrong (e.g. when you go to the Chapter List for a recording, the playback pauses - it doesn't keep playing like that), and of course it's more fluid-looking in the YouTube video than in reality (not to mention the fact that if you have their older hardware, e.g. the QIP-6416 DVR, the s/w is pretty slow).

Not trying to pan the s/w - it's a great release. I'm very happy with it. Just to put it in perspective. Also to those who commented that a guide is just a grid of data - yes, that's true. Just realize that 1.9 was designed to add functionality as well as pretty-up the guide. Much of that is functionality that you guys already have - stuff like DVR to DVR recording sharing and expandable external storage. Also, because of the new color palate, I find this guide much easier to read from a distance than the old.


----------



## cypherx

Jeremy W said:


> There's nothing subliminal about sticking a network's logo on the screen. :lol:


LOL, right, well then how about this...
Imagine buying a BMW and there's no BMW emblems ANYWHERE on the car! It just doesn't seem complete.

Or what about buying some Nike's, but there's not a single Nike logo or branding on the shoes at all?

To some logo's are eye candy, but when I look at that Fios IMG 1.9 GUI, I really like how they did the design. If the DirecTV HD UI is anything like the ipad app, as we are pretty sure on... then it will have those nice graphical touches like more visible logo's. In iTunes, the second picture of the iPad app shows logo's next to each channel name/number.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/directv-app-for-ipad/id421547368?mt=8


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Neither UI interface shown in the FIOS examples are anything very unique or special IM*H*O.
> 
> A grid with graphics is a grid with graphics.


When have you ever had a "humble" opinion?.........:lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> When have you ever had a "humble" opinion?.........:lol:
> 
> Rich


Humbly lots of times.


----------



## Rich

Jeremy W said:


> The HR20 uses the older BCM7038 chip (released in 2003) that cannot handle an HD GUI. The HR21/22/23 use the BCM7401 (released in 2006) which can handle an HD GUI. The HR24 is a different animal, with the -500 using a totally different chip and the -100 using an unknown Broadcom chip, however it's a safe bet that they both support an HD GUI.
> 
> The reality is that the HR20 is almost five years old now, which is an eternity in the technology world. It's not surprising that it can't keep up with everything DirecTV is offering now.


And yet the 20-700s handle my huge Playlist much better than the 24s do. I don't get that. Just last night, I had to switch from a 24-500 to a 20-700 to go thru just a portion of my Playlist without waiting for the 500 to process the remote control commands.

I know I have a huge Playlist that none of the HRs were built to cope with. I know that's my fault. But the 20-700s do handle the Playlist better.

Rich


----------



## dpeters11

bobcamp1 said:


> I was with you right up until you said the word "java." I winced. Java is not meant to run on embedded systems. D* would have to take the concepts and rewrite the code. It's not rocket science, but it isn't trivial.
> 
> The look of the product does matter. You can tell D* has recently been paying attention. The H(R)24 and H25 units look sleeker. Now they just need the GUI to match.


My knowledge of Java is fairly basic, other than that it is full of security holes and I generally avoid installing it unless I have to, then deal with the updates.

But if Java wasn't meant to run on embedded systems, then why would there be a Java SE for Embedded? When I have installed it, a splash screen talked about Java being in Blu-Ray players and cars.


----------



## dpeters11

Jeremy W said:


> The HR20 uses the older BCM7038 chip (released in 2003) that cannot handle an HD GUI. The HR21/22/23 use the BCM7401 (released in 2006) which can handle an HD GUI. The HR24 is a different animal, with the -500 using a totally different chip and the -100 using an unknown Broadcom chip, however it's a safe bet that they both support an HD GUI.
> 
> The reality is that the HR20 is almost five years old now, which is an eternity in the technology world. It's not surprising that it can't keep up with everything DirecTV is offering now.


Once an HD GUI comes out, DirecTV had better have some sort of solution for replacement receivers, at least not sending out HR20s. Lack of local 3D playback isn't a big for the average customer yet, but if they go from an HD GUI to the one now, the average customer won't be happy. The GUI is something that a lot of people are pretty sensitive to.


----------



## BattleScott

rich584 said:


> And yet the 20-700s handle my huge Playlist much better than the 24s do. I don't get that. Just last night, I had to switch from a 24-500 to a 20-700 to go thru just a portion of my Playlist without waiting for the 500 to process the remote control commands.
> 
> I know I have a huge Playlist that none of the HRs were built to cope with. I know that's my fault. But the 20-700s do handle the Playlist better.
> 
> Rich


The HR-20 has a 2 chip solution (BCM7411 Decoder / BCM7038 Processor). The HR-21 and above have the single chip BCM7401 solution. The BCM7038 is actually a more powerful processor than the BCM7401 integrated CPU, but as Jeremy pointed out, it can't render graphics at an HD resolution.

The BCM7401 was desinged as a lower-cost, easier to deploy, solution. Performance is not one of it's advantages.

Think of it as having 2 pcs side by side, #1 is a Dual-Core pentium with a 256MB PCI VGA card. #2 is an older Pentium4 with an on-board 1GB DVI video port.

#2 can generate better looking graphics, but everything else will be slower.


----------



## joed32

dpeters11 said:


> Once an HD GUI comes out, DirecTV had better have some sort of solution for replacement receivers, at least not sending out HR20s. Lack of local 3D playback isn't a big for the average customer yet, but if they go from an HD GUI to the one now, the average customer won't be happy. The GUI is something that a lot of people are pretty sensitive to.


I have 3 HR20s and wouldn't get rid of them just for a different grid.


----------



## Jeremy W

dpeters11 said:


> Once an HD GUI comes out, DirecTV had better have some sort of solution for replacement receivers, at least not sending out HR20s.


If there is no provision for the HR20 to have a similar GUI, I expect that DirecTV will no longer be using it as a replacement receiver. Which is a possibility that I think is quite likely.


----------



## Shades228

Jeremy W said:


> If there is no provision for the HR20 to have a similar GUI, I expect that DirecTV will no longer be using it as a replacement receiver. Which is a possibility that I think is quite likely.


I think it will be similiar to the H20-100 where they get used in specific cases. Like a customer who just wants 1 HD DVR only or something like that.


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> I think it will be similiar to the H20-100 where they get used in specific cases. Like a customer who just wants 1 HD DVR only or something like that.


Possibly, but the H20's GUI isn't radically different from the other HD receivers. In this case, the HR20 (and the H20, actually) would have a totally different GUI. DirecTV has been very big on uniformity, I don't know if they'd want to support two different GUIs on HD receivers.


----------



## Shades228

Jeremy W said:


> Possibly, but the H20's GUI isn't radically different from the other HD receivers. In this case, the HR20 (and the H20, actually) would have a totally different GUI. DirecTV has been very big on uniformity, I don't know if they'd want to support two different GUIs on HD receivers.


They will still have 2 GUI's one SD and one HD. I also said only 1 HD DVR so no other HD on the order. This means that a customer wouldn't see a difference unless they ordered another HD receiver. If they ever got it replaced and they got a new GUI it's a win for the customer getting something "better" at no cost.

Normally I would agree with you but seeing the back and forth with the H20-100 I would say they would find a way to use them rather than EOL them like they should have done with the 20-100.


----------



## Rich

BattleScott said:


> The HR-20 has a 2 chip solution (BCM7411 Decoder / BCM7038 Processor). The HR-21 and above have the single chip BCM7401 solution. The BCM7038 is actually a more powerful processor than the BCM7401 integrated CPU, but as Jeremy pointed out, it can't render graphics at an HD resolution.
> 
> The BCM7401 was desinged as a lower-cost, easier to deploy, solution. Performance is not one of it's advantages.
> 
> Think of it as having 2 pcs side by side, #1 is a Dual-Core pentium with a 256MB PCI VGA card. #2 is an older Pentium4 with an on-board 1M DVI video port.
> 
> #2 can generate better looking graphics, but everything else will be slower.


I pretty much get all that. Sorta. Good analogy, that helped. HD GUI or not, I'm not gonna get rid of my eight 20-700s. I'm happy with the GUI we've got now. All I can see is this causing problems.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Jeremy W said:


> If there is no provision for the HR20 to have a similar GUI, I expect that DirecTV will no longer be using it as a replacement receiver. Which is a possibility that I think is quite likely.


Been a long time since I got a 20-700 as a replacement that actually worked.

Rich


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> Normally I would agree with you but seeing the back and forth with the H20-100 I would say they would find a way to use them rather than EOL them like they should have done with the 20-100.


I see where you're coming from. But maybe they actually learned their lesson with the H20, and will do the right thing and EOL the HR20. The HR20 is entering the point in it's life where hard drive failures are going to start becoming very common. I don't think DirecTV wants to be constantly dealing with that, especially on new accounts, but who knows.


----------



## cypherx

Well looks like someone doing a field trial of Comcast's new 4 tuner "Spectrum" 1TB DVR dished to Engadget.

It features a really slick HD-UI. I'm just posting this since we are anticipating an HD-UI on DirecTV, and this can be used as a comparison for equipment and software.

Click the link to head over to Engadget and check out the picture filled story.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/20/comcasts-next-generation-xfinity-spectrum-dvr-shows-off-quad-tu/

Now it looks like whoever took the screen shots was a horrible photographer... but that aside, the interface looks promising. I just wanted to point this out in case any DirecTV employees are looking for inspiration.


----------



## inkahauts

Something tells me Directv's will be much better. Comcast's seems clean, but lacking for some reason. I can't really put my finger on it... Maybe I would need to play with it to figure it out, but something is lacking from what is show there... For DirecTV I look at their iPad app as a road map for where they are probably going to go with it.. And the old slides we saw from an investor meeting a while back.


----------



## Jeremy W

inkahauts said:


> Something tells me Directv's will be much better.


Did you read about the features, or just look at the pictures? Comcast has clearly put *a lot* of thought into this new software.


----------



## Beerstalker

inkahauts said:


> Comcast's seems clean, but lacking for some reason. I can't really put my finger on it... Maybe I would need to play with it to figure it out, but something is lacking from what is show there....


It's missing all the ads that will be plastered everywhere by the time it gets rolled out to everyone


----------



## Guest

Interesting article about DTV's connected home it mentions the RVU field trial that is being discussed in another thread but also that DTV is working on a new guide that will look like a web page.

http://www.v-net.tv/NewsDisplay.aspx?id=793&title=directv-preparing-for-the-connected-decade

"The Pay TV operator used Connected TV Summit to demonstrate the new multi-room DVR possibilities including distribution to televisions without a set-top box using RVU. The demo showed the existing DIRECTV programme guide but Dulac pointed out that the company is moving to a new guide that reflects the look-and-feel of its website. RVU certification for the client devices including the C30 and compatible TVs should be finalized in June."


----------



## Guest

Social networking features are also coming.

"The company has also developed a social TV application for the TV screen, providing the chance for viewers to select a simple comment about programming, like Great show and send it via social networks like Facebook and Twitter. Recipients of the message can follow a link to the programming and if they are a DIRECTV customer they can go straight to the mobile DVR scheduler application."


----------



## LameLefty

CraigerCSM said:


> Social networking features are also coming.
> 
> "The company has also developed a social TV application for the TV screen, providing the chance for viewers to select a simple comment about programming, like ?Great show? and send it via social networks like Facebook and Twitter. Recipients of the message can follow a link to the programming and if they are a DIRECTV customer they can go straight to the mobile DVR scheduler application."


That's already part of TV Apps and the existing iPad App.


----------



## CCarncross

Great, more unnecessary and unneeded crap to distract from its core job of the STB's watching/recording tv.


----------



## videoboy77

This is what the CEO had to say about the new GUI last week. I think it's the most detailed/ promising description of what's to come that we've heard yet.

"The thing that we're working on right now is a much improved high definition user interface that we're launching in October this year. I've seen it. It's terrific. You know one of the complaints I hear a lot about our guide is that it takes a long time to scroll- this one scrolls like a spreadsheet. I mean you can scroll up and down and across 2 weeks of content on our guide you know like a knife cutting through butter, Um, it's got terrific high def graphics. Um, it also has a lot of the kinds of things that an Amazon does, ok you know, shows you might like, recommendation engine, um ability to personalize your favorite shows, you can kind of set up. So it's got a lot of features I think if you look at where the digital world is going- personalization, social, connections to social- facebook and twitter, um all of that is built in to it. So we're quite excited about the new user interface. We're going national in October. It sounds like it's just a user interface but it's more than that."​


----------



## fireponcoal

outstanding news! october can not get here fast enough....


----------



## Laxguy

videoboy77 said:


> This is what the CEO had to say about the new GUI last week. I think it's the most detailed/ promising description of what's to come that we've heard yet.
> 
> "The thing that we're working on right now is a much improved high definition user interface that we're launching in October this year. I've seen it. It's terrific. You know one of the complaints I hear a lot about our guide is that it takes a long time to scroll- this one scrolls like a spreadsheet. I mean you can scroll up and down and across 2 weeks of content on our guide you know like a knife cutting through butter, Um, it's got terrific high def graphics. Um, it also has a lot of the kinds of things that an Amazon does, ok you know, shows you might like, recommendation engine, um ability to personalize your favorite shows, you can kind of set up. So it's got a lot of features I think if you look at where the digital world is going- personalization, social, connections to social- facebook and twitter, um all of that is built in to it. So we're quite excited about the new user interface. We're going national in October. It sounds like it's just a user interface but it's more than that."​


Your transcription; date? Otherwise, source, link, please.....


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> Your transcription; date? Otherwise, source, link, please.....


It's taken from the Investors call on 6/1. You can find it on the DirecTV Investors page.


----------



## texasmoose

videoboy77 said:


> This is what the CEO had to say about the new GUI last week. I think it's the most detailed/ promising description of what's to come that we've heard yet.
> 
> "The thing that we're working on right now is a much improved high definition user interface that we're launching in October this year. I've seen it. It's terrific. You know one of the complaints I hear a lot about our guide is that it takes a long time to scroll- this one scrolls like a spreadsheet. I mean you can scroll up and down and across 2 weeks of content on our guide you know like a knife cutting through butter, Um, it's got terrific high def graphics. Um, it also has a lot of the kinds of things that an Amazon does, ok you know, shows you might like, recommendation engine, um ability to personalize your favorite shows, you can kind of set up. So it's got a lot of features I think if you look at where the digital world is going- personalization, social, connections to social- facebook and twitter, um all of that is built in to it. So we're quite excited about the new user interface. We're going national in October. It sounds like it's just a user interface but it's more than that."​


we can only hope!:hurah:


----------



## videoboy77

"Laxguy" said:


> Your transcription; date? Otherwise, source, link, please.....


Yes it was my transcript from a conference call from Wednesday of last week. You can listen to it on the Directv investor website. It's from the June 01 event.


----------



## Laxguy

videoboy77 said:


> Yes it was my transcript from a conference call from Wednesday of last week. You can listen to it on the Directv investor website. It's from the June 01 event.


Thanks much!


----------



## TomK

One thing I miss from the DirecTiVo days is the TiVo grid guide. 90% of the time I want to see the upcoming day's worth of shows/movies for the channel I am on and NOT the next 2 hours for the 6 or so next consecutive channels. That feature may be a patent of TiVo but I wish the upcoming HD GUI will have that.


----------



## RAD

TomK said:


> One thing I miss from the DirecTiVo days is the TiVo grid guide. 90% of the time I want to see the upcoming day's worth of shows/movies for the channel I am on and NOT the next 2 hours for the 6 or so next consecutive channels. That feature may be a patent of TiVo but I wish the upcoming HD GUI will have that.


I know it's not the same, but do you know that if you scroll left to the channel number and press info you get a list for the next 5 programs on that channel?


----------



## RunnerFL

RAD said:


> I know it's not the same, but do you know that if you scroll left to the channel number and press info you get a list for the next 5 programs on that channel?


You can even scroll thru that and get the complete guide data for that channel not just 5 shows.


----------



## TomK

RAD said:


> I know it's not the same, but do you know that if you scroll left to the channel number and press info you get a list for the next 5 programs on that channel?
> 
> And by RunnerFL:
> You can even scroll thru that and get the complete guide data for that channel not just 5 shows.


Well I didn't know I could do that and I'll be using that tip. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Satelliteracer

fireponcoal said:


> outstanding news! october can not get here fast enough....


I don't want to reveal too much, but it's gorgeous and smart and a bunch of other things that I can't give away.


----------



## Satelliteracer

CCarncross said:


> Great, more unnecessary and unneeded crap to distract from its core job of the STB's watching/recording tv.


You're going to like the look, feel and performance. I really believe that.


----------



## TomK

Satelliteracer said:


> I don't want to reveal too much, but it's gorgeous and smart and a bunch of other things that I can't give away.


Any reason why it has to wait until October?


----------



## oldfantom

"TomK" said:


> Any reason why it has to wait until October?


I have the same issue when my wife bakes. Why do the cookies have to cool. So this is my wife telling you that it will be ready when it is ready.


----------



## mreposter

CCarncross said:


> Great, more unnecessary and unneeded crap to distract from its core job of the STB's watching/recording tv.


What's so crappy about eliminating the need for a box on every tv and delivering DVR functionality throughout the house?


----------



## Scott Kocourek

TomK said:


> Any reason why it has to wait until October?


This is likely when they figure the testing will be complete. I can't wait to see it myself.


----------



## Tom Robertson

oldfantom said:


> I have the same issue when my wife bakes. Why do the cookies have to cool. So this is my wife telling you that it will be ready when it is ready.


Oh, man... Now I want cookies gooey and HD GUI...


----------



## David MacLeod

beyond one box going down and all tv's being useless? not too much...


----------



## Satelliteracer

David MacLeod said:


> beyond one box going down and all tv's being useless? not too much...


Correct, that is the risk. Then again, with the amount of money MSOs are spending for STBs, you can understand why the push to go there. The costs are enormous. Then when a customer leaves, they are collected and refurbished for another high cost and on and on. Very expensive operational endeavor.

There are obviously a lot of MSOs that would like to cut down on that if possible.


----------



## Satelliteracer

TomK said:


> Any reason why it has to wait until October?


Testing, fine tuning, etc. Still some tweaks that are being made. With any of these types of things, you want to make sure it works with all the models, works with all the various services (3D, Whole Home-MRV, etc) plus is presenting the newly introduced services properly.


----------



## sigma1914

Will it be across all HR2x and Hx units?


----------



## Nighthawk68

Satelliteracer said:


> I don't want to reveal too much, but it's gorgeous and smart and a bunch of other things that I can't give away.


Gee, thanks for dangling a carrot in front of us :lol: Seriously, thanks for the info, looking forward to seeing it.

I was pretty excited about the Left Arrow/Info tip, thats really cool, never knew that existed.

Thanks for all you contribute to this group, it is much appreciated.

Ed


----------



## Jeremy W

sigma1914 said:


> Will it be across all HR2x and Hx units?


Except for the H20, yes.


----------



## David MacLeod

there are uses for both setups, one size fits all probably not always best but some flexibility will keep everyone happy.


----------



## CCarncross

mreposter said:


> What's so crappy about eliminating the need for a box on every tv and delivering DVR functionality throughout the house?


Whole Home DVR isnt the part I'm disappointed in, its adding crap like social networking apps and all the other crap that has absolutely nothing to do with watching/recording television...we already have hundreds of other devices that give us access to that stuff...Personally I want a kick ass slick DVR, not a half-assed fully enabled media center. Historically, the more functions companies cram into their electonic devices, the worse they tend to do their primary functions, take cell phones for instance, they do a million other things besides phone calls, and most of them drop more calls than they did 10 years ago.


----------



## Doug Brott

CCarncross, while I'm somewhat in agreement with what you are saying, I know I'm getting very close to the "other" side of the line. Social Networking is the future and DIRECTV wants to be there. I doubt they'd even be looking that direction if they didn't think it was worthwhile.

It's very unlikely that I will make use of it, but I suspect a lot of people will make use of it.


----------



## subeluvr

If the new guide is going to look and feel like the DTV web site that is a giant step backwards cause the web site SUX in both look and feel.

A universal solution is just like a universal bracket... it will work equally poorly in every installation and never well in any.

The ability to compare anomalies between identical receivers in the same house is invaluable for diagnosing a problem especially over the phone with a tech located who knows where.

Losing service in the entire installation because one set top box failed is the height of stupidity regardless of how cost effective it is for the service provider. I haven't lost service 4 times (3 with Dish and one with DTV) because of a failed LNB because I took steps to have a spare in the garage. Otherwise I would have been watching nothing for 4 or 5 days till a replacement arrived. The customer will remember every minute they went without service and that will haunt the provider for a long time to come in poor referrals by the customer.

In the never ending quest to provide less and charge more for it corporate America never seems to learn its lessons because we continue to accept less and pay more for it so we deserve everything we don't get.

Vote with your wallet.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

I'm really psyched for the HD guide, and satracer's excitement is obvious. I'm sold!


----------



## LameLefty

Thanks for the tidbits Satelliteracer. I'm looking forward to seeing how things turn out.


----------



## Drucifer

Wouldn't the Guide now come in two versions, SD & HD and you select which one during the Setup? And to change between the two, you would need to do a reset.


----------



## geaux tigers

Who is Satelliteracer? He is obvisously on the inside and I appreciate his posts but was wondering who he is.


----------



## Kevin F

"geaux tigers" said:


> Who is Satelliteracer? He is obvisously on the inside and I appreciate his posts but was wondering who he is.


He works for DirecTV and comes to visit us every now and then . The info he gives us is controlled by the company.


----------



## geaux tigers

Kevin F said:


> He works for DirecTV and comes to visit us every now and then . The info he gives us is controlled by the company.


Thanks - he works for the man in the sky.


----------



## Doug Brott

geaux tigers said:


> Who is Satelliteracer? He is obvisously on the inside and I appreciate his posts but was wondering who he is.


Here's a rare photo of Satelliteracer:



Spoiler


----------



## geaux tigers

Doug Brott said:


> Here's a rare photo of Satelliteracer:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I have partied with that dude!


----------



## houskamp

thought that was Earl :lol:


----------



## tonyd79

"Doug Brott" said:


> Here's a rare photo of Satelliteracer:
> 
> * SPOILER *


He needs to get some sun.


----------



## texasmoose

To me, it looks like he's been paid too many compliments and/or he needs to dump the 'roids. Do u see the size of his dome?!?:eek2:


----------



## geaux tigers

texasmoose said:


> To me, it looks like he's been paid too many compliments and/or he needs to dump the 'roids. Do u see the size of his dome?!?:eek2:


Barry Bonds works for DirecTV?


----------



## charlie460

No H20 support


----------



## KAL

Doug Brott said:


> Here's a rare photo of Satelliteracer:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


LMFAO!!!!!!! :lol::lol:


----------



## Guest

Will DTV have a remote Android app for the new HD GUI?


----------



## LameLefty

CraigerCSM said:


> Will DTV have a remote Android app for the new HD GUI?


The GUI runs on the receiver or DVR box. It has nothing to do with ANY mobile app.


----------



## Guest

LameLefty said:


> The GUI runs on the receiver or DVR box. It has nothing to do with ANY mobile app.


I am talking about using an Android tablet as a remote control. DTV has an Ipad App for that now. I think DTV has an Android App for that now or it's coming soon but its designed for the current GUI not the new HD GUI.


----------



## David MacLeod

d* gui is not transmitted to remote app.


----------



## tonyd79

"Drucifer" said:


> Wouldn't the Guide now come in two versions, SD & HD and you select which one during the Setup? And to change between the two, you would need to do a reset.


I would hope it would be based on the tv output support choices. And they remember them with the update so for existing boxes, the GUI is automatically chosen. For new ones, just ask what type of tv you have.

BTW, fios asked the question with their new hd GUI an it resulted in a ton of phone calls. The GUI was only partially rolled out and is back in the shop for a color tweak.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

CraigerCSM said:


> I am talking about using an Android tablet as a remote control. DTV has an Ipad App for that now. I think DTV has an Android App for that now or it's coming soon but its designed for the current GUI not the new HD GUI.


A remote is a remote it has nothing to do with the new HD GUI. Even if you use the Android App it is still just a remote that works through your network. I don't believe the Android App was made by DirecTV.


----------



## Doug Brott

CraigerCSM said:


> I am talking about using an Android tablet as a remote control. DTV has an Ipad App for that now. I think DTV has an Android App for that now or it's coming soon but its designed for the current GUI not the new HD GUI.


They're not related .. It's not like DIRECTV is going to send out new remote controls (you know the real ones that they ship with the DVRs) just because they changed the GUI a little. Why on earth would they need to build a specific app for the GUI that appears on your TV screen. That doesn't make sense.

Now, the look and feel may start to become common between the two, but one doesn't require the other to work.


----------



## DodgerKing

Jeremy W said:


> Except for the H20, yes.


What about the H*R*20?


----------



## Satelliteracer

Kevin F said:


> He works for DirecTV and comes to visit us every now and then . The info he gives us is controlled by the company.


I've never had a filter put on me but I choose common sense as the "control".


----------



## bobnielsen

Scott Kocourek said:


> A remote is a remote it has nothing to do with the new HD GUI. Even if you use the Android App it is still just a remote that works through your network. I don't believe the Android App was made by DirecTV.


I have the Android Directv Remote Pro app on my Nook Color (running Cyanogen Mod 7, not the B&N firmware). This app is by "Wired DFW" (supposedly a DBSTalk member) and does a bit more than a normal remote. My HR24 responds more quickly to this than to the IR remote.


----------



## Guest

bobnielsen said:


> I have the Android Directv Remote Pro app on my Nook Color (running Cyanogen Mod 7, not the B&N firmware). This app is by "Wired DFW" (supposedly a DBSTalk member) and does a bit more than a normal remote. My HR24 responds more quickly to this than to the IR remote.


Thanks that answered my question.


----------



## Guest

Doug Brott said:


> Now, the look and feel may start to become common between the two, but one doesn't require the other to work.


Thanks that part answered my question also.


----------



## Drucifer

tonyd79 said:


> I would hope it would be based on the tv output support choices. And they remember them with the update so for existing boxes, the GUI is automatically chosen. For new ones, just ask what type of tv you have.
> 
> BTW, FiOS asked the question with their new hd GUI an it resulted in a ton of phone calls. *The GUI was only partially rolled out and is back in the shop for a color tweak.*


Well that is what the several hundred CE'rs are for.


----------



## tonyd79

"Drucifer" said:


> Well that is what the several hundred CE'rs are for.


Fios had many testers as well.


----------



## tonyd79

"Satelliteracer" said:


> I've never had a filter put on me but I choose common sense as the "control".


Common sense is usually the best filter.


----------



## DodgerKing

DodgerKing said:


> What about the H*R*20?


???


----------



## Jeremy W

DodgerKing said:


> What about the H*R*20?


The HR20 will get the HD GUI.


----------



## cypherx

I can't wait to see the HD GUI. I'd love to help test it. Curious why testers are still working on iterations of the current legacy guide on HD set tops, when in a few months that will be sunsetted.

If we know were migrating to a new software platform, then might as well work towards tweaking that, since that is the direction we are headed anyway.


----------



## sigma1914

cypherx said:


> I can't wait to see the HD GUI. I'd love to help test it. Curious why testers are still working on iterations of the current legacy guide on HD set tops, when in a few months that will be sunsetted.
> 
> If we know were migrating to a new software platform, then might as well work towards tweaking that, since that is the direction we are headed anyway.


My signature may apply, here.


----------



## Drucifer

cypherx said:


> I can't wait to see the HD GUI. I'd love to help test it. Curious why testers are still working on iterations of the current legacy guide on HD set tops, when *in a few months that will be sunsetted*.
> 
> If we know were migrating to a new software platform, then might as well work towards tweaking that, since that is the direction we are headed anyway.


Psst. There are a hell of a lot SD sets still out there in DirecTV land.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> I'd love to help test it.


I'm sure you're not alone, and I'm just as sure that you'll get the chance to do so. It'll be released to CE testing when it's ready.


----------



## Jeremy W

Drucifer said:


> Psst. There are still a hell of a lot SD sets still out there in DirecTV land.


There aren't a hell of a lot of SD sets connected to an HD receiver. There are some, but it's not a very significant amount.


----------



## dpeters11

How many markets are there now that are mpeg4?


----------



## fireponcoal

It will be incredibly funny if D* gets this out to us before Fios gets it's HD GUI released en masse.


----------



## MISpat

While I would enjoy a nice HD GUI, to me the most important thing is functionality. So all I'm hoping for is to get the ability back to be able to see the exact time of my bookmarks and jump to them


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> There aren't a hell of a lot of SD sets connected to an HD receiver. There are some, but it's not a very significant amount.


I beg to differ. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions.


----------



## Jeremy W

ndole_mbnd said:


> I beg to differ. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions.


If you say so.


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> If you say so.


In MPEG4 Markets, EVERY tv requires an HD or HDDVR stb. A majority of those sets are sd CRTs. So yes, probably millions.


----------



## Tom Robertson

ndole_mbnd said:


> In MPEG4 Markets, EVERY tv requires an HD or HDDVR stb. A majority of those sets are sd CRTs. So yes, probably millions.


 Excellent point. I didn't have an opinion, I know I don't represent the "average" customer by any stretch. 

I also knew my father had switched to mostly HD receivers before he switched TVs, but he had some help. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Satelliteracer

drucifer said:


> psst. There are a hell of a lot sd sets still out there in directv land.


millions and millions and millions


----------



## Satelliteracer

Jeremy W said:


> There aren't a hell of a lot of SD sets connected to an HD receiver. There are some, but it's not a very significant amount.


Agree, though you will see the opposite happen quite a bit since it's nearly impossible to buy a SD tv any longer


----------



## Jeremy W

ndole_mbnd said:


> I beg to differ.


or...


Satelliteracer said:


> Agree


I think I know which one I'm going with.


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> or...
> 
> I think I know which one I'm going with.


What do I know. I just see them every day. :lol:


----------



## Jeremy W

ndole_mbnd said:


> What do I know. I just see them every day. :lol:


Which means you're over-exposed. I live in a non-MPEG4 market, so I've never seen an HD box on an SD TV. Does that mean that they don't exist? Of course not.


----------



## RobertE

Satelliteracer said:


> Agree, though you will see the opposite happen quite a bit since it's nearly impossible to buy a SD tv any longer


With all do respect, you'd be surprised at the number of HD boxes that get hooked up to non HD sets. Somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 off all the WHDVR installs (1 HD DVR, 1 HD, 1+ SD) the HD box is on a SD set. I'm not in a Mpeg4 LiL market.


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> Which means you're over-exposed. I live in a non-MPEG4 market, so I've never seen an HD box on an SD TV. Does that mean that they don't exist? Of course not.


Millions :grin:


----------



## cypherx

I have an H21-100 hooked up to a 27" toshiba SDTV in a room. It's connected via component and only 480i is checked. It still looks much better than composite or s-video.

I understand the current platform will still be around for older receivers like the SD models or SD-DVR's. But then why are the CE releases only targeting the set tops who will receive the new HD GUI?

Also keep in mind an HD GUI can be made to work on a SDTV. You can certainly play PS3, xbox 360 or use Verizon FIOS IMG 1.9. Just like I can watch Sony Movie Channel, HDNet, Shorts HD, etc on my SDTV. It just looks better on an HDTV, that's all. With that in mind, I still have SD Duplicates hidden on that SDTV, because even downressed- the HD channels are still noticeably better than their SD counterparts even on a smaller SDTV.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Drucifer

RobertE said:


> With all do respect, you'd be surprised at the number of HD boxes that get hooked up to non HD sets. Somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 off all the WHDVR installs (1 HD DVR, 1 HD, 1+ SD) the HD box is on a SD set. I'm not in a Mpeg4 LiL market.


I had my three HR21s and one H21 before I had my first HDTV. Then finally a set went. I was so impress with HD, that I gave away the other three working sets. One 'em being a Sony 36" monster.


----------



## LameLefty

cypherx said:


> I have an H21-100 hooked up to a 27" toshiba SDTV in a room. It's connected via component and only 480i is checked. It still looks much better than composite or s-video.


I have a similar situation in one of my kids' rooms: an R22-200 (HD-enabled) connected to a 30" Toshiba CRT via component. It looks great. Of course, I have 5 other HD sets in the house, so it's definitely on borrowed time.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> why are the CE releases only targeting the set tops who will receive the new HD GUI?


Because the other receivers (including the H20) are not running DirecTV software, and are not under the same development schedule.


----------



## DodgerKing

"Jeremy W" said:


> There aren't a hell of a lot of SD sets connected to an HD receiver. There are some, but it's not a very significant amount.


I am one of them. In one of my rooms I have an SD TV connected to an H21

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Drucifer

cypherx said:


> . . . .
> Also keep in mind an *HD GUI can be made to work on a SDTV*. You can certainly play PS3, xbox 360 or use Verizon FIOS IMG 1.9. Just like I can watch Sony Movie Channel, HDNet, Shorts HD, etc on my SDTV. It just looks better on an HDTV, that's all. With that in mind, I still have SD Duplicates hidden on that SDTV, because even downressed- the HD channels are still noticeably better than their SD counterparts even on a smaller SDTV.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Think it would be different for a screen that has a lots of text compared to one that an image.


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> *Because the other receivers (including the H20) are not running DirecTV software*, and are not under the same development schedule.


Huh?


----------



## Jeremy W

ndole_mbnd said:


> Huh?


Their software is made by NDS.


----------



## cypherx

"Jeremy W" said:


> Their software is made by NDS.


Who copied who then? It sure looks the same... Sans animation of the PIG entering/exiting the guide.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## dpeters11

I thought that was boxes like the R15. So the H20 is NDS and the HR20 is internal to DirecTV?


----------



## dpeters11

"cypherx" said:


> Who copied who then? It sure looks the same... Sans animation of the PIG entering/exiting the guide.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Could be NDS programming to DirecTV design and specification. Contract work essentially instead of in house programmers.

Looking more into it, DirecTV has a contract through 2016 with NDS. It looks like NDS also did the access card system.


----------



## cypherx

"dpeters11" said:


> Could be NDS programming to DirecTV design and specification. Contract work essentially instead of in house programmers.


That makes sense. I did see that DirecTV and NDS renewed a contract deal. Not sure if that was for guide software or conditional access stuff... But they do have a very tight relationship so it seems.

Some of NDS other reference designs slightly resemble DirecTV (fonts and some icons). Even that guide they did for Sky in the UK borrows the same blue color palette.

I do like their animation that is seen when going into the guide (or exiting). The PIG animates by shrinking into the upper right corner, or expands to fill the screen when exiting. I hope the HD GUI adds some of these modern transitions, like those I'm accustomed to on my iPhone or Windows 7 PC. It just adds a bit of fit and finish IMO, as opposed to boring "disappear and reappear" screen drawing.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## tonyd79

Uh, isn't there waaaay too much CE talk in this non-CE forum?


----------



## SledgeHammer

What exactly is the HD GUI going to give us that justifies 15 pages of anticipation? I get that it *might* give us "prettier" screens, but its not like our current screens are ugly. Are people suddenly expecting a lot more information to be shown on the screens? I mean right now the guide is 2hrs x 6 (I think its 6?) channels... do you think the HD guide is suddenly going to be 4hrs x 12 channels or something? I don't really see how thats possible since the font size isn't going to be 25% the size it is now... I'm anticipating the font size will be exactly the same so its readable. So you aren't really going to suddenly have all this extra screen real estate to play with.

If the screens have animated transitions like the Tivo, well... didn't most people who used the Tivo find those to be annoying?

I'm a software engineer who does UI work, so I like eye candy as much as the next guy, if not more... but there is a fine line between good eye candy and annoying eye candy.


----------



## SledgeHammer

cypherx said:


> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Sorry to go off topic, but lol...


----------



## Drucifer

cypherx said:


> . . . The PIG animates by *shrinking* into the upper right corner, or *expands* to fill the screen when exiting. I hope the HD GUI adds some of these modern transitions, like those I'm accustomed to on my iPhone or Windows 7 PC. It just adds a bit of fit and finish IMO, as opposed to boring "disappear and reappear" screen drawing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Those sound like they can be annoying after awhile.

I want a clear define screen and not transition gimmicks.


----------



## cypherx

"SledgeHammer" said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but lol...


Well yeah it automatically puts that in the end of a post. The I devices make a great 2nd screen companion. I play on it all the time during commercials. 30 sec skip is no longer the advertisers nightmare. Smartphones and tablets are!

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on an iPad. Could use the DirecTV app.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## dpeters11

"cypherx" said:


> That makes sense. I did see that DirecTV and NDS renewed a contract deal. Not sure if that was for guide software or conditional access stuff... But they do have a very tight relationship so it seems.


Except for the time they sued each other.


----------



## tonyd79

Drucifer said:


> Those sound like they can be annoying after awhile.
> 
> I want a clear define screen and not transition gimmicks.


+1000


----------



## cypherx

"Drucifer" said:


> Those sound like they can be annoying after awhile.
> 
> I want a clear define screen and not transition gimmicks.


Well the animation is quite quick. Sort of like minimizing a program to the Widows 7 taskbar. If done fast it's not annoying. I actually find myself triggering the animation when bored (guide, exit, guide, exit, guide, exit, etc)

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## Drucifer

SledgeHammer said:


> . . . .
> I'm a software engineer who does UI work, so I like eye candy as much as the next guy, if not more... but there is a fine line between good eye candy and annoying eye candy.


Yes, the KISS principle!


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> Well yeah it automatically puts that in the end of a post.


I see that on some people's posts. When I post from my iPhone using DBSTalk app, it doesn't put that there.

huh.


----------



## dpeters11

Getting off topic, again, but that's under more/forum posting options. You just have the signature off, like i do.


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> Well yeah it automatically puts that in the end of a post.


You can disable that.


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> Well the animation is quite quick. Sort of like minimizing a program to the Widows 7 taskbar. If done fast it's not annoying. I actually find myself triggering the animation when bored (guide, exit, guide, exit, guide, exit, etc)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Windows 7 is an over-gimmicked GUI. Besides, what is the FOCUS when you have the eyes dragging off to the icon? Are you supposed to follow the icon? If I want something off my desktop, I don't want to watch it go. It only takes your eyes off what you are trying to look at.

As for your last statement, I think they make drugs for that.....


----------



## SledgeHammer

cypherx said:


> Well yeah it automatically puts that in the end of a post. The I devices make a great 2nd screen companion. I play on it all the time during commercials. 30 sec skip is no longer the advertisers nightmare. Smartphones and tablets are!
> 
> I'm really close to pulling the trigger on an iPad. Could use the DirecTV app.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


No, its not that... just when I see guys out in public ignoring the world around them and texting for 20 minutes or whatever, I always assumed it was because they were scamming on like 10 chicks and planning hookups for like the next 5 weeks, so I was always jealous... now I know its just people writing long posts on dbstalk, so I feel a lot better .

Anyways, back to topic... HD gui huh? SWEET


----------



## SledgeHammer

tonyd79 said:


> Windows 7 is an over-gimmicked GUI. Besides, what is the FOCUS when you have the eyes dragging off to the icon? Are you supposed to follow the icon? If I want something off my desktop, I don't want to watch it go. It only takes your eyes off what you are trying to look at.
> 
> As for your last statement, I think they make drugs for that.....


Yeah, as a GUI guy, I always disabled a lot of the annoying things. I don't mind the Windows 7 default button glowing, thats kind of nice, but smooth scrolling list boxes I disable because it makes it slow to scroll and I'm impatient.


----------



## tonyd79

SledgeHammer said:


> Yeah, as a GUI guy, I always disabled a lot of the annoying things. I don't mind the Windows 7 default button glowing, thats kind of nice, but smooth scrolling list boxes I disable because it makes it slow to scroll and I'm impatient.


The thing that drives me nuts is the autopreview built into Windows and Office tools these days. Can't even drag over a font size anymore without it reformatting the document.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> The thing that drives me nuts is the autopreview built into Windows and Office tools these days. Can't even drag over a font size anymore without it reformatting the document.


Do you hate all visual innovation?


----------



## inkahauts

Drucifer said:


> Wouldn't the Guide now come in two versions, SD & HD and you select which one during the Setup? And to change between the two, you would need to do a reset.


Why would you need to reset it? The thing changes and scales right now on the fly, and you can change output formats by hitting a button on the remote right now.

I have a feeling the exact scaling of the new gui will be determined by the output resolution that you choose.. 480 will have a smaller amount of info on the screen, but still the same format... 1080 will have much more in the future.

Either that, or they might even allow you to choose how much info shows on the screen anyway, so that people with smaller tvs can have a little larger printing, and larger tvs can have more info...


----------



## inkahauts

SledgeHammer said:


> What exactly is the HD GUI going to give us that justifies 15 pages of anticipation? I get that it *might* give us "prettier" screens, but its not like our current screens are ugly. Are people suddenly expecting a lot more information to be shown on the screens? I mean right now the guide is 2hrs x 6 (I think its 6?) channels... do you think the HD guide is suddenly going to be 4hrs x 12 channels or something? I don't really see how thats possible since the font size isn't going to be 25% the size it is now... I'm anticipating the font size will be exactly the same so its readable. So you aren't really going to suddenly have all this extra screen real estate to play with.
> 
> If the screens have animated transitions like the Tivo, well... didn't most people who used the Tivo find those to be annoying?
> 
> I'm a software engineer who does UI work, so I like eye candy as much as the next guy, if not more... but there is a fine line between good eye candy and annoying eye candy.


I think the first thing we will see is more info on the screens, more hours and channels, etc.. and a different layout, or maybe a couple options on the layout, similar to how the ipad app works.

On the ipad, you get 10 shows in the playlist per screen, and 9 channels with 3 hours of programming in the guide... That's 30% plus bump of info per page, and that's a big deal, if you ask me.... And you know that it will be ok, shoot, they have that much info on their on demand screens now already, but making it sharper will make it even better.

I have a feeling that because of the new gui, they will also start implementing new ways to organize, and surf your playlist, etc.... There absolutely needs to be a better way to flip through your playlist, and organize it. I think once they get the new gui in place, they will add more of this kind of stuff...


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> Do you hate all visual innovation?


What a strange conclusion to make.

But innovation just cause it is whiz bang is stupid. Innovation that makes sense makes sense. Reformatting my document because my cursor slid over a font size I never was going to pick is stupid.


----------



## cypherx

To each his own.

That's why I always say put in options for people to customize it how they want.

I would choose the animations and visual effects, plus smaller fonts for more information. That's just me. But by no means does that have to be the end all. Someone else may choose larger fonts and sacrifice some real estate because they have a harder time reading the small text, or just don't want to be bombarded with a sea of text on screen. A person my want to disable visual effects and animations, and thats fine... they pay for the service let them customize it how it makes them happy.

Just like in Windows XP & 7, you can customize the visual features. Want the classic look? No problem! 

That's whats great about this world we live in. Freedom of choice. If its something as obscure as what your TV experience is, or what restaurant you want to go to, or something with more merit - such as what religion you practice or what political party you side with... choose what makes YOU happy. I know my choices.


----------



## Laxguy

I've asked this before, and if someone answered, my apologies for I missed it. 

So: Is the GUI something similar to HTML?


----------



## Doug Brott

Laxguy said:


> I've asked this before, and if someone answered, my apologies for I missed it.
> 
> So: Is the GUI something similar to HTML?


:scratchin

a GUI is how things work the button presses, navigation, the whole 9 yards.

HTML is a text-based language that represents what is drawn on a screen.


----------



## Laxguy

Doug Brott said:


> :scratchin
> 
> a GUI is how things work the button presses, navigation, the whole 9 yards.
> 
> HTML is a text-based language that represents what is drawn on a screen.


Badly phrased by me. I could have said, "Is the screen drawing based on something similar to HTML?"


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> To each his own.
> 
> That's why I always say put in options for people to customize it how they want.
> 
> I would choose the animations and visual effects, plus smaller fonts for more information. That's just me. But by no means does that have to be the end all. Someone else may choose larger fonts and sacrifice some real estate because they have a harder time reading the small text, or just don't want to be bombarded with a sea of text on screen. A person my want to disable visual effects and animations, and thats fine... they pay for the service let them customize it how it makes them happy.
> 
> Just like in Windows XP & 7, you can customize the visual features. Want the classic look? No problem!
> 
> That's whats great about this world we live in. Freedom of choice. If its something as obscure as what your TV experience is, or what restaurant you want to go to, or something with more merit - such as what religion you practice or what political party you side with... choose what makes YOU happy. I know my choices.


I can agree with that. Unfortunately, Microsoft has taken away a lot of the choices for Windows 7. They existed in XP and Vista but not in 7. Some of the newer GUI features in all three have been good, but some of those I do not like are no longer customizable in Windows 7. And from what I hear of Windows 8....yikes! They are trying to make the GUI primarily touchscreen driven rather than touchscreen for touchscreen and keyboard/mouse for keyboard/mouse.

BTW, I love the iPhone GUI. It is new and fast and CLEAN. Not a lot of jazziness to it at all. It is intuitive and looks fancy just because it works so well.


----------



## SledgeHammer

cypherx said:


> To each his own.
> That's why I always say put in options for people to customize it how they want.


You'll notice if you look at the DirecTV boxes, they have very few if any customization features. I don't mean set up features, but actual customization features on how things work / feel.

The reason for that is simple: to reduce support costs. If you had to train front line support people on being able to deal with highly customizable UIs, the quality of support would be horrible. They can barely support the boxes as is.

I work for a company with about 2500 to 5000 employees on this campus. Up until about 6 months ago, everybody was locked on to Windows XP in CLASSIC MODE. You weren't even allowed to run XP in themed mode. This was so the IT people could reduce support costs and not have to deal with endless configurations.


----------



## SledgeHammer

Laxguy said:


> Badly phrased by me. I could have said, "Is the screen drawing based on something similar to HTML?"


I don't think DirecTV uses HTML. I believe Tivo uses Flash, but I think DirecTV uses some home grown solution.


----------



## cypherx

Tony,

Yeah in Windows 7 they did bury some of those features. We do have a Windows 7 PC that is running in Classic mode with no frills, because it's connected to a projector via wireless, and the performance is better over the WLAN without all the aero effects.

We just right click on Computer go to properties,
Then Advanced system settings in the left hand side.
Advanced tab.
Click on settings in the Performance area.
Click on the radio button for Adjust for best performance, then browse through the list and tweak as needed.

But yes, this is a little more hidden away!

Windows 8 does look a little overwhelming for a desktop PC. For a tablet, looks great... but I'm still not sold on that UI for a desktop PC with a keyboard and mouse.

SledgeHammer -
I know what your saying. DirecTV could just put two basic customizations and start from that. Screen animations (like today they have the smooth scrolling option), and screen size (like Dish Network has 3 or 4 different guide sizes). Maybe it's a start... not so overwhelming like XP or Windows 7 (20 some different checkboxes). We let the users choose whatever theme they want in Windows XP - be it the fisher price looking blue theme, silver, olive or classic. But were only about 110 employees to support, and a good deal of younger folk who are adaptable and can't wait for Windows 7.


----------



## Doug Brott

Laxguy said:


> Badly phrased by me. I could have said, "Is the screen drawing based on something similar to HTML?"


I'm not familiar with the code that they use .. That's one of those things they don't let me look at ..


----------



## SledgeHammer

cypherx said:


> Windows 8 does look a little overwhelming for a desktop PC. For a tablet, looks great... but I'm still not sold on that UI for a desktop PC with a keyboard and mouse.
> 
> SledgeHammer -
> I know what your saying. DirecTV could just put two basic customizations and start from that. Screen animations (like today they have the smooth scrolling option), and screen size (like Dish Network has 3 or 4 different guide sizes). Maybe it's a start... not so overwhelming like XP or Windows 7 (20 some different checkboxes). We let the users choose whatever theme they want in Windows XP - be it the fisher price looking blue theme, silver, olive or classic. But were only about 110 employees to support, and a good deal of younger folk who are adaptable and can't wait for Windows 7.


I don't know what they are thinking with Windows 8. Seems like its oriented towards touch which is not really going to fly with desktops.

Thing with DTV is, they need to cater towards the masses and not confuse people. Options only confuse people. DTV has 15 million subs or whatever... how many of those do you think even know what a checkbox is? Most DTV subs are not tech savy like you and I.


----------



## Doug Brott

OK .. Why are we talking about Windows?


----------



## David MacLeod

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. Why are we talking about Windows?


because...


was wondering too :lol:


----------



## tonyd79

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. Why are we talking about Windows?


Well, Windows is a single point of shared experience of a relatively newish sort of GUI for general use.....

...ah, only cause we tend to go off topic.


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> SledgeHammer -
> I know what your saying. DirecTV could just put two basic customizations and start from that. Screen animations (like today they have the smooth scrolling option), and screen size (like Dish Network has 3 or 4 different guide sizes). Maybe it's a start... not so overwhelming like XP or Windows 7 (20 some different checkboxes). We let the users choose whatever theme they want in Windows XP - be it the fisher price looking blue theme, silver, olive or classic. But were only about 110 employees to support, and a good deal of younger folk who are adaptable and can't wait for Windows 7.


Yes, you need some customization (30 skip versus 30 slip is another) but you can't get too heavy into it because variations can be a killer. A DVR is not a general purpose computer and DirecTV deliberately unified the GUI experience for ease of support and use. That is a good idea although there are a few things that can be adjusted that do not make it terribly difficult for a user to jump from box to box or express what they are doing to a CSR (or for the CSR to be confused).

(BTW, thanks for the tip on Win7. I will check it out.)


----------



## TDK1044

Based on their excellent i-pad app, I'm really looking forward to this GUI.


----------



## chadb97

Any word on what the guide will potentially look like?? Like the above post, if it's anything like the Ipad app, it will be very nice. I gotta say though, an HD GUI is long overdue. It can't come soon enough.


----------



## Jeremy W

chadb97 said:


> Any word on what the guide will potentially look like?? Like the above post, if it's anything like the Ipad app, it will be very nice.


It's going to resemble the iPad app.


----------



## reber1b

For my money, they can keep their cosmetic changes to the GUI, and devote their efforts to some solid improvements in the system, such as:

1) Restoring the bookmarks
2) Providing us with a real and useful slo-mo
3) Making closed captions easier to turn on and off -- can't they find some practical use for the blue button?
4) Making PIP available
5) Speeding up the playlst
6) Making it easier to change formats
7) Making it harder to accidentally hit the "Active" button, or disable it completely
8) Speeding up the Apps so that they actually become useful


----------



## RunnerFL

reber1b said:


> 1) Restoring the bookmarks
> 2) Providing us with a real and useful slo-mo
> 3) Making closed captions easier to turn on and off -- can't they find some practical use for the blue button?
> 4) Making PIP available
> 5) Speeding up the playlst
> 6) Making it easier to change formats
> 7) Making it harder to accidentally hit the "Active" button, or disable it completely
> 8) Speeding up the Apps so that they actually become useful


1) I agree
2) Slo-Mo works fine for me, when/if I use it.
3) They were easy, they just made them complicated. I don't see them going back to easy.
4) The current HR2X hardware is not capable of PIP. 
5) And making a way to view a playlist sorted by DVR.
6) It's pretty easy already, the format button.
7) Take away Active and I'll be happy.
8) Don't see that happening until the new UI comes out later this year.


----------



## pfp

Jeremy W said:


> It's going to resemble the iPad app.


where can i see some pics of this?


----------



## costanzas_wallet

pfp said:


> where can i see some pics of this?


http://tinyurl.com/6z97oo9


----------



## tonyd79

reber1b said:


> For my money, they can keep their cosmetic changes to the GUI, and devote their efforts to some solid improvements in the system, such as:
> 
> 1) Restoring the bookmarks
> 2) Providing us with a real and useful slo-mo
> 3) Making closed captions easier to turn on and off -- can't they find some practical use for the blue button?
> 4) Making PIP available
> 5) Speeding up the playlst
> 6) Making it easier to change formats
> 7) Making it harder to accidentally hit the "Active" button, or disable it completely
> 8) Speeding up the Apps so that they actually become useful


Ironically, Points 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 all involve the GUI that you don't want them to change.

That leaves 2 and 4. Point 4 is a hardware limitation so no amount of software is going to fix that. That leaves point 2.


----------



## joed32

costanzas_wallet said:


> http://tinyurl.com/6z97oo9


Looks kind of cluttered from the pics. Way more information than is needed. Someone said that the HR20s might not get, is that correct?


----------



## Laxguy

tonyd79 said:


> Ironically, Points 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 all involve the GUI that you don't want them to change.
> 
> That leaves 2 and 4. Point 4 is a hardware limitation so no amount of software is going to fix that. That leaves point 2.


I maintain that the last one will be solved by: Chips. Or a chip designed to make smooth slo-mo in MPEG4..... possibly some improvement can come before then, but I doubt very much better.


----------



## Doug Brott

gonna go out on a limb and say #3 and #4 are related .. You have the HR34 to thank for that.


----------



## dpeters11

"joed32" said:


> Looks kind of cluttered from the pics. Way more information than is needed. Someone said that the HR20s might not get, is that correct?


Yes, but someones also said it will.

I'm hoping for it will, maybe not the H20.


----------



## Jeremy W

dpeters11 said:


> Yes, but someones also said it will.
> 
> I'm hoping for it will, maybe not the H20.


I don't believe the H20 will get the HD GUI. But the HR20 will for sure.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Doug Brott said:


> gonna go out on a limb and say #3 and #4 are related .. You have the HR34 to thank for that.


It wouldn't be a problem if they were to put dedicated PIP buttons on the new remote.


----------



## Jeremy W

TheRatPatrol said:


> It wouldn't be a problem if they were to put dedicated PIP buttons on the new remote.


But it would be a problem if they weren't planning on having a new remote.


----------



## inkahauts

joed32 said:


> Looks kind of cluttered from the pics. Way more information than is needed. Someone said that the HR20s might not get, is that correct?


It's not clutter at all.. You have to use it, the pics don't do it justice. It is sweet and so easy to navigate. It won't be identical though, not possible without making your tv a touch screen..


----------



## Drucifer

Jeremy W said:


> But it would be a problem if they weren't planning on having a new remote.


Impossible. Sooner or later we'll get one with a smart screen or one of those wheel thingy. Buttons are so 20th century.


----------



## Jeremy W

Drucifer said:


> Impossible. Sooner or later we'll get one with a smart screen or one of those wheel thingy. Buttons are so 20th century.


Disagree. DirecTV will be sticking with the current remote design until they go out of business.


----------



## Laxguy

Drucifer said:
 

> Impossible. Sooner or later we'll get one with a smart screen or one of those wheel thingy. Buttons are so 20th century.


Heh. Some of us have 'em already.....though designed/made by a third party based in Cupertino....


----------



## Jeremy W

Laxguy said:


> Heh. Some of us have 'em already.....though designed/made by a third party based in Cupertino....


I know that there is third-party software available for Apple's devices that can allow them to operate as remotes, but I wasn't aware that Apple actually made remotes.


----------



## rey_1178

i'm so excited about this. i've been wanting this for a very long time. change is good. lets not be afraid of change


----------



## trainman

Jeremy W said:


> I know that there is third-party software available for Apple's devices that can allow them to operate as remotes, but I wasn't aware that Apple actually made remotes.


Apple does make a remote (it works with most recent Macs, Apple TV, and with the iPod/iPhone dock).

But I do think Laxguy had in mind an iPod/iPhone with third-party software -- the Apple remote has those old-fashioned 20th-century buttons.


----------



## chrisfowler99

Drucifer said:


> Impossible. Sooner or later we'll get one with a smart screen or one of those wheel thingy. Buttons are so 20th century.


God I would hate that.

I don't want to have to look at my remote to use it.


----------



## Tom Robertson

chrisfowler99 said:


> God I would hate that.
> 
> I don't want to have to look at my remote to use it.


You've hit upon the key to any great remote.

I think alternative navigation devices can have a role in remote controls so long as this one basic rule holds for doing the simple things--not having to look at the remote. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## reber1b

tonyd79 said:


> Ironically, Points 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 all involve the GUI that you don't want them to change.
> 
> That leaves 2 and 4. Point 4 is a hardware limitation so no amount of software is going to fix that. That leaves point 2.


I am not talking about fundamental changes to the GUI, I'm all for that. I am only criticizing the idea of a strictly *cosmetic* change and the fact that, if they are not going to make fundamental cheanges, why waste time simply making it "prettier".


----------



## BudShark

chrisfowler99 said:


> God I would hate that.
> 
> I don't want to have to look at my remote to use it.


Who says you have to? A touch interface doesn't have to be visual. In fact, one of the greatest benefits I've seen is when its intuitive and not visual.

A touchscreen remote with a menu system... touch it to activate, scroll the onscreen cursor without looking at the remote, swipe to move to the next menu. Channel changes are accomplished with fingers... (for example, 1 finger is 1, 2 fingers is 2, etc... thumb held down and 2 fingers is 7, etc.) So to tune to ESPN, 2 finger tap(2), thumb swipe(0), thumb and 1 finger(6). I just tuned to 206 without looking at anything. You could activate on screen remotes with a pinch, you could draw the channel number (since it only has to recognize 10 digits, it won't be difficult to be reliable). You could do mini guides down the left side of the screen, favorite channel lists.

And of course, the all time favorite of mine, the touchscreen is your guide. So you do your channel selection and guide browsing on the touchscreen, never interrupting the TV display.

The point is, don't think of a remote gone touchscreen, think of how you could control things with a touch interface. BIG difference.


----------



## tonyd79

How do you use a touch screen without looking at it. Button remote have tactile feel. Touchscreens do not.


----------



## Guest

How about getting rid of the remote for voice commands?


----------



## sigma1914

CraigerCSM said:


> How about getting rid of the remote for voice commands?


Not everyone can talk.


----------



## Doug Brott

Nor do I want to hear my family barking commands to the TV ..


----------



## Tom Robertson

I can just imagine the domesticate arguments involving voice enabled TVs (and other things in life...)


----------



## BudShark

tonyd79 said:


> How do you use a touch screen without looking at it. Button remote have tactile feel. Touchscreens do not.


Because you aren't touching a button. You are making gestures. How do you move a mouse using a trackpad without looking at the trackpad?

If I have my AppleTV on and open the apple remote on the iPad, I don't have to look at the iPad unless I'm typing a word into search. The menu responds to my gestures. Add in writing of numbers or a finger controlled tapping and I can change channels. Counterclockwise motion rewinds. 2 finger counterclockwise is 2x, 3 finger is 3x rewind. Flick down for previous channel. 4 finger swipe right brings up record options. There are plenty of other ways too. These are just thoughts off the top of my head.


----------



## Laxguy

Doug Brott said:


> Nor do I want to hear my family barking commands to the TV ..


Ah, but it'd be in vain! You'll program it to respond only to your voice print.

"His Master's Voice" takes on a 21st C. meaning!


----------



## Scott Kocourek

CraigerCSM said:


> How about getting rid of the remote for voice commands?


My Dad had this feature many years ago, when someone would walk by the tv, he'd tell them to change the channel.


----------



## Laxguy

Scott Kocourek said:


> My Dad had this feature many years ago, when someone would walk by the tv, he'd tell them to change the channel.


Did he preceded the commands with "Now hear this! Now hear this!"?


----------



## Tom Robertson

Scott Kocourek said:


> My Dad had this feature many years ago, when someone would walk by the tv, he'd tell them to change the channel.


Many parents had a similar version--"Kid, get up and change the channel.)


----------



## chrisfowler99

BudShark said:


> Who says you have to? A touch interface doesn't have to be visual. In fact, one of the greatest benefits I've seen is when its intuitive and not visual.
> 
> A touchscreen remote with a menu system... touch it to activate, scroll the onscreen cursor without looking at the remote, swipe to move to the next menu. Channel changes are accomplished with fingers... (for example, 1 finger is 1, 2 fingers is 2, etc... thumb held down and 2 fingers is 7, etc.) So to tune to ESPN, 2 finger tap(2), thumb swipe(0), thumb and 1 finger(6). I just tuned to 206 without looking at anything. You could activate on screen remotes with a pinch, you could draw the channel number (since it only has to recognize 10 digits, it won't be difficult to be reliable). You could do mini guides down the left side of the screen, favorite channel lists.
> 
> And of course, the all time favorite of mine, the touchscreen is your guide. So you do your channel selection and guide browsing on the touchscreen, never interrupting the TV display.
> 
> The point is, don't think of a remote gone touchscreen, think of how you could control things with a touch interface. BIG difference.


I guess that would come down to my dislike of gesture controls.

I'd much rather push the 206 buttons that I know the location of.

Could be just me...but I doubt it.


----------



## Guest

Remeber that scene in Back To The Future II with Marty Jr. talking to that big screen then all those channels popping up?


----------



## JoeTheDragon

CraigerCSM said:


> Remeber that scene in Back To The Future II with Marty Jr. talking to that big screen then all those channels popping up?


that was before the cable co got evil and forced you to deal with there box.

In the late 90's and the 00's tv had PIP and now they don't have it and cable card was a bust and tru2way is in just about the same place.


----------



## Laxguy

Having PIP in a new GUI is fine, but I doubt I'll use it much. It was critical before we got digital recorders, but now you can follow multiple events without it. I do have it on the TV, but haven't used it since I tested the then new TV 18 months ago. 

Anyone else in the same frame of mind?


----------



## I WANT MORE

PIP would be great for NFL ST. The game you are interested in on the big screen and RZC in the window. Which, now that I think of it, I'll be able to do this year since my cable co added their version of the RZC in HD. (I have both D* and Cable).
Of course, this is all predicated upon their being an NFL season.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Having PIP in a new GUI is fine, but I doubt I'll use it much. It was critical before we got digital recorders, but now you can follow multiple events without it. I do have it on the TV, but haven't used it since I tested the then new TV 18 months ago.
> 
> Anyone else in the same frame of mind?


Me. There are devices out there that can allow any TV to have PIP. Anyone buy one recently? I bought one about twenty years ago and gave it to my brother who gave it to his neighbor and then we lost track of it. I had several PIP enabled TVs after that and rarely, if ever, used the feature. It's handy in the Guide, but I think it's day has come and gone. I also had a Sony TV that allowed me to split the screen and watch equal pictures. Never used that either.

Rich


----------



## Rich

chrisfowler99 said:


> I guess that would come down to my dislike of gesture controls.
> 
> I'd much rather push the 206 buttons that I know the location of.
> 
> Could be just me...but I doubt it.


I hope that D* NEVER changes it's remotes as far as the buttons go. I finally got used to using mine in dark rooms without looking at it and I don't use the remotes on my smart phone or iPad.

Rich


----------



## joed32

I WANT MORE said:


> PIP would be great for NFL ST. The game you are interested in on the big screen and RZC in the window. Which, now that I think of it, I'll be able to do this year since my cable co added their version of the RZC in HD. (I have both D* and Cable).
> Of course, this is all predicated upon their being an NFL season.


No problem, they've already reached agreement on the money distribution and that was the big one. Now they're figuring out the details of the rookie salary cap and other minor issues. We will have a season and a pre-season.


----------



## RunnerFL

Doug Brott said:


> Nor do I want to hear my family barking commands to the TV ..


Can you just imagine someone watching a recording and then yelling out "Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip"... "jump back".. :lol:


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> Having PIP in a new GUI is fine, but I doubt I'll use it much. It was critical before we got digital recorders, but now you can follow multiple events without it. I do have it on the TV, but haven't used it since I tested the then new TV 18 months ago.
> 
> Anyone else in the same frame of mind?


Well don't worry about it, the HR2X's aren't capable of doing PIP.


----------



## Tom Robertson

JoeTheDragon said:


> that was before the cable co got evil and forced you to deal with there box.
> 
> In the late 90's and the 00's tv had PIP and now they don't have it and cable card was a bust and tru2way is in just about the same place.


The big deal with PIP is the TV manufacturers decided it was too expensive and too few customers really wanted it or used it.

You still can buy TVs with PIP if you want to jump to the higher end.

I have such a TV, but the lower end of PIP--it only PIPs via it's own tuner.

But that's ok, I use extra computer monitors for POP, especially during NFL season. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W

Tom Robertson said:


> You still can buy TVs with PIP if you want to jump to the higher end.


But even those TVs almost always have restrictions on what sources can be used. I've never seen a TV that allows two HDMI sources to be PIPed, for example. My high end Samsung LCD only allows the internal tuner to be used as the PIP source, and if you're using the internal tuner as your main source, PIP is not available at all.


----------



## tonyd79

BudShark said:


> Because you aren't touching a button. You are making gestures. How do you move a mouse using a trackpad without looking at the trackpad?


I use a mouse while LOOKING at a screen. That means that you need visual contact for EVERY command. Turn the volume up. Turn the volume down. Change inputs. You will need something on the screen for all of those to mimic a mouse. Right now, I hit one button without looking at anything. 


BudShark said:


> If I have my AppleTV on and open the apple remote on the iPad, I don't have to look at the iPad unless I'm typing a word into search. The menu responds to my gestures. Add in writing of numbers or a finger controlled tapping and I can change channels. Counterclockwise motion rewinds. 2 finger counterclockwise is 2x, 3 finger is 3x rewind. Flick down for previous channel. 4 finger swipe right brings up record options. There are plenty of other ways too. These are just thoughts off the top of my head.


Ick. I have 400+ commands programmed into buttons. Now I need to hurt my wrist just to get what I can do with a single button push or at most two?


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> But even those TVs almost always have restrictions on what sources can be used. I've never seen a TV that allows two HDMI sources to be PIPed, for example. My high end Samsung LCD only allows the internal tuner to be used as the PIP source, and if you're using the internal tuner as your main source, PIP is not available at all.


True. Although my buddy tells me his Samsung can do it.

I use the RCA outputs for my second screen for PIP.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Ick. I have 400+ commands programmed into buttons. Now I need to hurt my wrist just to get what I can do with a single button push or at most two?


Yes, innovation is bad, traditional methods are superior. We get it.


----------



## PCampbell

RunnerFL said:


> Can you just imagine someone watching a recording and then yelling out "Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip"... "jump back".. :lol:


I have voice command in my car and dont care for it much. It dose not work all that well, if you Skip, Skip Skip it would try to make one word out of it.
I put voice command with 3D.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> True. Although my buddy tells me his Samsung can do it.


His Samsung can PIP two HDMI sources? Wow. Must be an older model. :lol: My Dell LCD that I bought in 2005 has the most flexible PIP implementation I've ever seen, allowing any source to be PIPed on any other source.


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> Yes, innovation is bad, traditional methods are superior. We get it.


Nice misread. SIMPLE methods are good. Lots of motion and gyration is bad. My Apple iPhone is wonderful. It is good innovation. Innovation just for innovation sake is stupid.


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> His Samsung can PIP two HDMI sources? Wow. Must be an older model. :lol: My Dell LCD that I bought in 2005 has the most flexible PIP implementation I've ever seen.


It is what he tells me. And, no, it was a 3D model his wife bought him for Christmas. I looked at the documentation, but it was not 100% clear. It did imply he was right, though.


----------



## tonyd79

PCampbell said:


> I have voice command in my car and dont care for it much. It dose not work all that well, if you Skip, Skip Skip it would try to make one word out of it.
> I put voice command with 3D.


There is the story (true or not) of the voice command tested in Japan. But the TV kept changing channels from the voices from the TV speakers themselves. My voice command in my car works pretty well for some things; not so well for others. But it is hard whenever others are in the car as you have to tell them to be quiet.


----------



## Jeremy W

PCampbell said:


> I have voice command in my car and dont care for it much. It dose not work all that well


I have Microsoft SYNC, and the voice command is awesome. It has no trouble with anything I throw at it, including song titles and artists.


----------



## rakstr

Jeremy W said:


> I have Microsoft SYNC, and the voice command is awesome. It has no trouble with anything I throw at it, including song titles and artists.


The Ford Sync IS AWESOME. On the other hand, the Audi MMI with all it's German engineering, screens, and technology SUCKS. Some things old are RIGHT, like buttons for radio stations rather than swipes/swoops/gestures. Tactile is KING for simple tasks that are often repeated.

Also, people often forget "standardization" as a Human Factor's element. I get rental cars on a regular basis as well as switching back and forth at home. When basic operations are significantly different for the most used services, the user experience plummets. Examples for me are windshield wipers, radio stations, cruise control, lighting, ...

This argument holds for DVRs, DVDs, TVs, Receviers, Radios, ............

Sorry, this is a sore spot for me, too many changes for change sake. And I am in the high tech business. I however say, if someone got it right in the past, leave it be


----------



## PCampbell

I have Sync, Try onerepublic and see what you get. You have to ask for the album.
For the most part I do not use it.


----------



## Jeremy W

PCampbell said:


> I have Sync, Try onerepublic and see what you get. You have to ask for the album.
> For the most part I do not use it.


I have the navigation radio, which allows you to train SYNC to recognize your voice and become more accurate. The regular radio does not have this feature, although I have talked to many people with regular SYNC radios and they still have no issues. You're the first one I've run into that doesn't like it.


----------



## LameLefty

Whatever the reasonably near future hold for the Directv set-top box GUI, I guarantee you that voice commands and gesture-based controls don't factor in. :lol:

:backtotop


----------



## PCampbell

LameLefty said:


> Whatever the reasonably near future hold for the Directv set-top box GUI, I guarantee you that voice commands and gesture-based controls don't factor in. :lol:
> 
> :backtotop


+1


----------



## Laxguy

Jeremy W said:


> But even those TVs almost always have restrictions on what sources can be used. I've never seen a TV that allows two HDMI sources to be PIPed, for example. My high end Samsung LCD only allows the internal tuner to be used as the PIP source, and if you're using the internal tuner as your main source, PIP is not available at all.


That's my experience with my even higher end Sammy plasma.


----------



## rakstr

LameLefty said:


> Whatever the reasonably near future hold for the Directv set-top box GUI, I guarantee you that voice commands and gesture-based controls don't factor in. :lol:
> 
> :backtotop


I'd be happy if they could just make the existing interface work reliably and much "snappier" in response.


----------



## Jeremy W

rakstr said:


> I'd be happy if they could just make the existing interface work reliably and much "snappier" in response.


The existing interface has basically reached the end of it's life. The HD GUI is bringing along with it many under-the-hood enhancements that should speed things up.


----------



## rakstr

Jeremy W said:


> The existing interface has basically reached the end of it's life. The HD GUI is bringing along with it many under-the-hood enhancements that should speed things up.


I'm hopeful but I've yet to see a "new and improved" software package take less resources and run "better" on the old platform.

Please be right


----------



## Jeremy W

rakstr said:


> I'm hopeful but I've yet to see a "new and improved" software package take less resources and run "better" on the old platform.
> 
> Please be right


Well, there's a first time for everything.


----------



## Tom Robertson

rakstr said:


> I'm hopeful but I've yet to see a "new and improved" software package take less resources and run "better" on the old platform.
> 
> Please be right


I have. Having been a part of software projects for many years, I've watched this happen again and again as part of standard programming:

Phase 1) Get it to work.
Phase 2) Get it to be stable.
Phase 3) Add new features while maintaining #1 and #2
Phase 4) Performance: speed, speed, speed.

As DIRECTV programmers have better analyzed both the hardware and the software, they can identify areas that can be improved, sometimes tremendously.

So it can happen and I'm expecting it to. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Jeremy W

Tom Robertson said:


> As DIRECTV programmers have better analyzed both the hardware and the software, they can identify areas that can be improved, sometimes tremendously.


Considering the state the software was in when it was released almost five years ago, and the fact that most of that base is probably still in use today, I'm sure they've figured out much better ways to do just about everything.


----------



## rakstr

Tom Robertson said:


> I have. Having been a part of software projects for many years, I've watched this happen again and again as part of standard programming:
> 
> Phase 1) Get it to work.
> Phase 2) Get it to be stable.
> Phase 3) Add new features while maintaining #1 and #2
> Phase 4) Performance: speed, speed, speed.
> 
> As DIRECTV programmers have better analyzed both the hardware and the software, they can identify areas that can be improved, sometimes tremendously.
> 
> So it can happen and I'm expecting it to.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Yes, when the new product starts out on a new platform but NEVER when a new product is put on a seriously aging platform like HR20,21,22,...


----------



## Jeremy W

rakstr said:


> Yes, when the new product starts out on a new platform but NEVER when a new product is put on a seriously aging platform like HR20,21,22,...


No, I'm sure Tom was referring to old platforms in his post, because I've seen the same things he has. The additional five years of experience with the platform allows performance gains to be realized that the developers weren't aware of before.


----------



## Tom Robertson

rakstr said:


> Yes, when the new product starts out on a new platform but NEVER when a new product is put on a seriously aging platform like HR20,21,22,...


No, I'm talking about one platform. I'm not talking about using newer hardware for advanced performance.

Friend of mine was working on a (then) huge array of data in Fortran. The original programmers analyzed data one row at a time--but given how Fortran used arrays in memory on that hardware, it would have to switch pages in memory as it stepped through the row. Took days to analyze the data.

By switching to columns rather than rows, the arrays didn't page on each cell, and the analysis completed in minutes.

The key is to identify the algorithms that might not be efficient against the hardware already in place and re-write to improve efficiency.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## rakstr

Tom Robertson said:


> No, I'm talking about one platform. I'm not talking about using newer hardware for advanced performance.
> 
> Friend of mine was working on a (then) huge array of data in Fortran. The original programmers analyzed data one row at a time--but given how Fortran used arrays in memory on that hardware, it would have to switch pages in memory as it stepped through the row. Took days to analyze the data.
> 
> By switching to columns rather than rows, the arrays didn't page on each cell, and the analysis completed in minutes.
> 
> The key is to identify the algorithms that might not be efficient against the hardware already in place and re-write to improve efficiency.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Yes, an example of tuning the old. Given the limited resources and the fundamental shift in the GUI, the effort will focus on new and not better 

Not intending to show any disrespect so let's agree to disagree 

Again, hopeful but most defintely NOT counting on it. :nono2:

BTW - I've been designing, writing and managing software projects for 35 years now!!!!


----------



## Tom Robertson

rakstr said:


> Yes, an example of tuning the old. Given the limited resources and the fundamental shift in the GUI, the effort will focus on new and not better
> 
> Not intending to show any disrespect so let's agree to disagree
> 
> Again, hopeful but most defintely NOT counting on it. :nono2:
> 
> BTW - I've been designing, writing and managing software projects for 35 years now!!!!


and you've NEVER (your comment) tuned a program you've written or NEVER seen a program better tuned?

I think that is my objection to your premise. There are many examples of software cycles that improve performance in the their long history. Like almost every major piece of software. Even Windows Vista to Windows 7.  And you say you've "NEVER" seen it happen.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## tonyd79

rakstr said:


> I'm hopeful but I've yet to see a "new and improved" software package take less resources and run "better" on the old platform.
> 
> Please be right


I use a design tool that runs faster and better than it did five years ago on the same hardware, with more features. When you design software for different things, you accomplish different things. If speed is a priority, you can change your software to accomodate better speed.


----------



## Guest

Also add this software in addition to the new HD GUI.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/first-look-at-google-tv-2-0-fishtank/


----------



## Drucifer

CraigerCSM said:


> Also add this software in addition to the new HD GUI.
> 
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/first-look-at-google-tv-2-0-fishtank/


Looks like it needs a new chip to run it.

Now if they could design that to run on existing chips inside a HR/H receiver, additions like these are not happening for this generation of DirecTV receivers.


----------



## p010ne

How about adding in my avatar kinect from my xbox 360?


----------



## Jeremy W

p010ne said:


> How about adding in my avatar kinect from my xbox 360?


What is the point of that?


----------



## p010ne

Manipulate the Guide with hands like in Minority Report


----------



## Doug Brott

Seems like this thread is moving into wild tangents .. :scratchin

Maybe I should ask something like .. What about putting plum sauce on my rice?


----------



## PCampbell

At this point we need to see the new gui to have something to talk about.


----------



## Guest

Will the new HD GUI have a what's on DTV Cinema for the current month allways displayed or pressing a button to get at it?


----------



## tonyd79

"Jeremy W" said:


> What is the point of that?


Innovation. Social media. LOL.


----------



## Doug Brott

CraigerCSM said:


> Will the new HD GUI have a what's on DTV Cinema for the current month allways displayed or pressing a button to get at it?


Guess we'll find out when we see it ... in October.


----------



## Shades228

Could you imagine the conspiracy theorists if DIRECTV announced they were putting a camera in their boxes so you could control their receivers.


I can't see banner adds going away. I can however see them not having as big of an impact because of more information on the screen.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

You mean there isn't a camera there now?


----------



## SledgeHammer

Doug Brott said:


> Guess we'll find out when we see it ... in October.


This isn't going to be like the Tivo debacle is it?


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> Could you imagine the conspiracy theorists if DIRECTV announced they were putting a camera in their boxes so you could control their receivers.





Stuart Sweet said:


> You mean there isn't a camera there now?


I've been told by multiple conspiracy theorists that all STBs have had microphones in them for years.

I'm not kidding.


----------



## Shades228

Stuart Sweet said:


> You mean there isn't a camera there now?


I never said that but with motion control they'd have to tell you about it.


----------



## Tom Robertson

SledgeHammer said:


> This isn't going to be like the Tivo debacle is it?


Thankfully, as we're not waiting on TiVo to write the HD GUI, this shouldn't be the TiVO debacle part X.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Shades228

I'm positive the TiVo thread will be going on like it is now after the HD GUI launches.


----------



## cypherx

Thing about the Tivo.... why would I want it, knowing DirecTV is going to revamp a shiny new HD-GUI on their own, that most likely resembles the already awesome iPad app.

I mean we've been told time and time again that the DirecTivo is going to be the old Tivo UI from literally YEARS ago, just with MPEG4 HD support. I mean they are not even baking in their Tivo Premier gui, which for a premium product, you would of thought Tivo would showcase their "premium" software solution.

So too late Tivo. DirecTV's beating you to it. Better, high definition UI, multiroom, slick iPad app. As far as Tivo goes, what's in it for me? I mean, why bother? I'll stick with my HR24-200. It does what I need it to do.


----------



## Tom Robertson

cypherx said:


> Thing about the Tivo.... why would I want it, knowing DirecTV is going to revamp a shiny new HD-GUI on their own, that most likely resembles the already awesome iPad app.
> 
> I mean we've been told time and time again that the DirecTivo is going to be the old Tivo UI from literally YEARS ago, just with MPEG4 HD support. I mean they are not even baking in their Tivo Premier gui, which for a premium product, you would of thought Tivo would showcase their "premium" software solution.
> 
> So too late Tivo. DirecTV's beating you to it. Better, high definition UI, multiroom, slick iPad app. As far as Tivo goes, what's in it for me? I mean, why bother? I'll stick with my HR24-200. It does what I need it to do.


Another way I don't sound like Tom Rogers--+1.


----------



## tonyd79

cypherx said:


> Thing about the Tivo.... why would I want it, knowing DirecTV is going to revamp a shiny new HD-GUI on their own, that most likely resembles the already awesome iPad app.
> 
> I mean we've been told time and time again that the DirecTivo is going to be the old Tivo UI from literally YEARS ago, just with MPEG4 HD support. I mean they are not even baking in their Tivo Premier gui, which for a premium product, you would of thought Tivo would showcase their "premium" software solution.
> 
> So too late Tivo. DirecTV's beating you to it. Better, high definition UI, multiroom, slick iPad app. As far as Tivo goes, what's in it for me? I mean, why bother? I'll stick with my HR24-200. It does what I need it to do.


Exactly why there is no longer a huge clamor (outside of Tivo zealots) for a DirecTivo. Same can be said (to a lesser degree) for the current GUI and functionality.

I really think it comes down to people who are comfortable with Tivo because it was their first experience with DVRs and who do not see beyond the Tivo GUI. Which, as I have said before, is sort of sad as the Tivo GUI (other than the HR10-like one for DirecTV) is no longer the Tivo GUI.


----------



## morgantown

tonyd79 said:


> Exactly why there is no longer a huge clamor (outside of Tivo zealots) for a DirecTivo. Same can be said (to a lesser degree) for the current GUI and functionality.
> 
> I really think it comes down to people who are comfortable with Tivo because it was their first experience with DVRs and who do not see beyond the Tivo GUI. Which, as I have said before, is sort of sad as the Tivo GUI (other than the HR10-like one for DirecTV) is no longer the Tivo GUI.


Agreed. I used to _really_ like the DirecTiVo and did not care for the first-gen DirecTV branded DVRs that were where from wherever they were. The current DirecTV DVRs are so much better than the first-gen efforts. All history as far as I care...

We'll see in October how much better things can get from a UI perspective.


----------



## Laxguy

morgantown said:


> Agreed. I used to _really_ like the DirecTiVo and did not care for the first-gen DirecTV branded DVRs that were where from wherever they were. The current DirecTV DVRs are so much better than the first-gen efforts. All history as far as I care...
> 
> We'll see in October how much better things can get from a UI perspective.


+1. Psyched about an improved UI!


----------



## inkahauts

"rakstr" said:


> I'm hopeful but I've yet to see a "new and improved" software package take less resources and run "better" on the old platform.
> 
> Please be right


Vista to windows seven.. Just saying it can happen..


----------



## ndole

Jeremy W said:


> I've been told by multiple conspiracy theorists that all STBs have had microphones in them for years.
> 
> I'm not kidding.


What good would that have done "for years", when only pretty recently has anyone had a high speed return path _from _the stb back to... Directv? The feds? Who?

There's no mic. Peel one open sometime.


----------



## LameLefty

ndole_mbnd said:


> There's no mic. Peel one open sometime.


I have, a few times on boxes I own. No mics in there.


----------



## tonyd79

LameLefty said:


> I have, a few times on boxes I own. No mics in there.


Hid really well, then.


----------



## Spike

I find the Directv GUI to be very cumbersome. There are far to many keystrokes needed in order to accomplish very simple tasks. I am hoping that simplicity similar to the Dirctv ipad app is a part of what they role out. I use the Directv iPad app over my Directv remote. Why? Because of the ease of use. 

The only problem is: Once I hit the MENU button, the complexity begins.

I am anxious to see what they do!


----------



## p010ne

:eek2: Will the new high definition guide be the first to support those blocks of QR codes for advertising so that my smartphone can use them to call the advertising telephone numbers or just go to the websites without my having to enter them? Or perhaps the new gui will be able to directly interpret the QR codes?


----------



## Jeremy W

ndole_mbnd said:


> What good would that have done "for years", when only pretty recently has anyone had a high speed return path _from _the stb back to... Directv? The feds? Who?


Don't forget about cable STBs, which have had a return path for quite a while.


ndole_mbnd said:


> There's no mic. Peel one open sometime.


I never said there was.


----------



## Jeremy W

p010ne said:


> :eek2: Will the new high definition guide be the first to support those blocks of QR codes for advertising so that my smartphone can use them to call the advertising telephone numbers or just go to the websites without my having to enter them? Or perhaps the new gui will be able to directly interpret the QR codes?


How would an HD GUI interpret QR codes? This is ridiculous.


----------



## inkahauts

Spike said:


> I find the Directv GUI to be very cumbersome. There are far to many keystrokes needed in order to accomplish very simple tasks. I am hoping that simplicity similar to the Dirctv ipad app is a part of what they role out. I use the Directv iPad app over my Directv remote. Why? Because of the ease of use.
> 
> The only problem is: Once I hit the MENU button, the complexity begins.
> 
> I am anxious to see what they do!


I don't understand this. The main function of a dvr is to watch a show. Either live or recorded. One button press gets you to the guide, or the playlist. No need for menu. And if you want to search for something, then its two button presses. 98% of all activity should be contained within those two places... How is that complex? I do think they need to make a one button dedicated to search, That'd really make it fast.

I also don't think the menu is complex either. Its pretty strait forward to me...


----------



## cypherx

"inkahauts" said:


> I don't understand this. The main function of a dvr is to watch a show. Either live or recorded. One button press gets you to the guide, or the playlist. No need for menu. And if you want to search for something, then its two button presses. 98% of all activity should be contained within those two places... How is that complex? I do think they need to make a one button dedicated to search, That'd really make it fast.
> 
> I also don't think the menu is complex either. Its pretty strait forward to me...


Is there a shortcut to search that I don't know about? Right now it's a little cumbersome being a very common option but it's not at the top of the menu. 
Menu
Down
Down
Select
Non qwerty keyboard or use triple tap

I would love it if smart search was the top option. My playlist on top is just redundant since that's what the LIST button is for. CinemaPlus could be #2, because chances are a good search will uncover some VOD anyway.


----------



## Spike

GUI Simplicity:

1. A Directv Remote with a Qwerty Keyboard for Searches.. no more numberal & Alpabet combo buttons, which leads to hundreds of keystroke presses 
2. Network Setup Button on Remote and not as part of a Menu Guide (how archaic not to have this)
3. Fav. Channel button on remote and not part of any menu options... simply press to move from one to the other fav. list
4. Info & Test button on remote rather than a choice in menu
5. And A point and Click feature on a ipad like HD GUI Screen using your remote


----------



## gslater

Spike said:


> GUI Simplicity:
> 
> 1. A Directv Remote with a Qwerty Keyboard for Searches.. no more numberal & Alpabet combo buttons, which leads to hundreds of keystroke presses
> 2. Network Setup Button on Remote and not as part of a Menu Guide (how archaic not to have this)
> 3. Fav. Channel button on remote and not part of any menu options... simply press to move from one to the other fav. list
> 4. Info & Test button on remote rather than a choice in menu
> 5. And A point and Click feature on a ipad like HD GUI Screen using your remote


You realize that if you hold down the info button it takes you into the info and test screen don't you?


----------



## Spike

gslater said:


> You realize that if you hold down the info button it takes you into the info and test screen don't you?


Sweet! Thanks.


----------



## tonyd79

Spike said:


> GUI Simplicity:
> 
> 2. Network Setup Button on Remote and not as part of a Menu Guide (how archaic not to have this)


Really? How often do you do this? Once for each box...ever? You want a dedicated button for soemthing like this?

Same with Info and Test. You really use that stuff that often?


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Really? How often do you do this? Once for each box...ever? You want a dedicated button for soemthing like this?
> 
> Same with Info and Test. You really use that stuff that often?


I was just about to post this. For once, it looks like we actually agree! :lol:


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> I would love it if smart search was the top option. My playlist on top is just redundant since that's what the LIST button is for. CinemaPlus could be #2, because chances are a good search will uncover some VOD anyway.


I've never used the Playlist option on the Menu. Never. I don't understand why the ToDo option can't be put in it's place. I use the Search function quite a bit and I don't have a problem with it's placement on the Menu.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tonyd79 said:


> Really? How often do you do this? Once for each box...ever? You want a dedicated button for soemthing like this?
> 
> Same with Info and Test. You really use that stuff that often?


I use the "Info an Test" window quite a bit to restart my HRs for MRV. Just a press and hold on the Info button and you're there. I agree with you about the Network option, I rarely use that.

Rich


----------



## tonyd79

rich584 said:


> I use the "Info an Test" window quite a bit to restart my HRs for MRV. Just a press and hold on the Info button and you're there. I agree with you about the Network option, I rarely use that.
> 
> Rich


Why are you restarting so often? The only times I restart are for CEs.


----------



## Rich

tonyd79 said:


> Why are you restarting so often? The only times I restart are for CEs.


I have twelve HRs on the MRV and sometimes one drops off and I end up having to restart them all to get them back on MRV. Small price to pay.

Rich


----------



## tonyd79

rich584 said:


> I have twelve HRs on the MRV and sometimes one drops off and I end up having to restart them all to get them back on MRV. Small price to pay.
> 
> Rich


By all means. Let us design our system for people who have 12 HRs on MRV.  (I know, you aren't asking for it...)


----------



## LameLefty

rich584 said:


> I have twelve HRs on the MRV and sometimes one drops off and I end up having to restart them all to get them back on MRV. Small price to pay.
> 
> Rich


Holy crap, Rich. You need to get out of the house more often! It's only TV . . . :lol:


----------



## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> I've never used the Playlist option on the Menu. Never. I don't understand why the ToDo option can't be put in it's place. I use the Search function quite a bit and I don't have a problem with it's placement on the Menu.
> 
> Rich


I see you've never used the buttons on the face of the DVR .. 

My Playlist needs to be in the menus otherwise you MUST have the remote to get to it.


----------



## Jeremy W

Doug Brott said:


> I see you've never used the buttons on the face of the DVR ..
> 
> My Playlist needs to be in the menus otherwise you MUST have the remote to get to it.


So is the goal to have every major feature accessible via the buttons on the front panel?


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> So is the goal to have every major feature accessible via the buttons on the front panel?


They just have to be in the menu structure for that to work as you have menu, arrow buttons and the select button.

Doesn't mean they can't be elsewhere as well (red, green, yellow, blue buttons, etc.).


----------



## DogLover

"Jeremy W" said:


> So is the goal to have every major feature accessible via the buttons on the front panel?


I think that would be an appropriate goal for any piece of consumer electronics.


----------



## Rich

tonyd79 said:


> By all means. Let us design our system for people who have 12 HRs on MRV.  (I know, you aren't asking for it...)


It's a bit of a PITA at times, but it works pretty well most of the time.

Rich


----------



## Rich

LameLefty said:


> Holy crap, Rich. You need to get out of the house more often! It's only TV . . . :lol:


They are used mostly to back each other up. I actually watch more NetFlix content than D*. But I don't miss programs....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> I see you've never used the buttons on the face of the DVR ..
> 
> My Playlist needs to be in the menus otherwise you MUST have the remote to get to it.


You're right, I don't use the front panel buttons unless I absolutely need to. Usually when reprogramming a remote.

Rich


----------



## Tom Robertson

Twelve receivers is not too many. Not at all. Actually sounds like a good start...  

I haven't had much drop off of receivers, I'm kinda surprised you do. Though I'm back down to 7 DVRs these days. Or is it 8? I guess I'm going to have to count again. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Shades228

No Q3 anticipation thread for this?


----------



## Jeremy W

Shades228 said:


> No Q3 anticipation thread for this?


This wasn't a Q2 anticipation thread, so...


----------



## Spike

tonyd79 said:


> Really? How often do you do this? Once for each box...ever? You want a dedicated button for soemthing like this?
> 
> Same with Info and Test. You really use that stuff that often?


I am always in my network settings. Yep. Info and test, not as much.


----------



## Doug Brott

Spike said:


> I am always in my network settings. Yep.


Really!? I set mine up .. and generally never touch it again. Why would you be going in frequently?


----------



## Spike

Doug Brott said:


> Really!? I set mine up .. and generally never touch it again. Why would you be going in frequently?


Only because my internet service has not been the best. And once I get booted off, I have to go back in there and set it up again for some strange reason. It is a pain in the butt.


----------



## Laxguy

Spike said:


> Only because my internet service has not been the best. And once I get booted off, I have to go back in there and set it up again for some strange reason. It is a pain in the butt.


Dunno if this will help in your situation, but once I set each of my three receivers to a fixed (static) IP, I've had almost no problems. I set my HR 20 to .20, the 24 to .24; you get the picture. This obviously helps ID them on my router page.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Dunno if this will help in your situation, but once I set each of my three receivers to a fixed (static) IP, I've had almost no problems. I set my HR 20 to .20, the 24 to .24; you get the picture. This obviously helps ID them on my router page.


Every Net device I have in my house has a static IP. It really solved many problems I had, but if I change one HR in some manner, I still have to reset all of them to get them back on MRV. Actually, I'm not really sure if I really have to reset them all each time, I just do it to be sure.

Rich


----------



## LameLefty

I just don't get the obsession around here with static IP's (let alone what this has to do with the box GUI  ). In any case, I have 7 receivers currently active, 4 laptops (two Macs, two Winboxes), 3 desktop PCs, 2 iPhones, an iPad, a Blackberry (it's for work, don't laugh :lol: ), 3 iPods, a Slingbox, 2 XBox 360's, a PS3, a Sony BD player, a Canon multifunction network printer/scanner and an Apple TV on the LAN, all using DHCP. 

You guys with issues need better routers.


----------



## Spike

Laxguy said:


> Dunno if this will help in your situation, but once I set each of my three receivers to a fixed (static) IP, I've had almost no problems. I set my HR 20 to .20, the 24 to .24; you get the picture. This obviously helps ID them on my router page.


Thanks for the tip! I'll give it a try. The thing is now, I don't trust it at all, so even if it works, I'll prob. look to make sure for a while. It is such a pain!


----------



## RAD

LameLefty said:


> I just don't get the obsession around here with static IP's (let alone what this has to do with the box GUI  ). In any case, I have 7 receivers currently active, 4 laptops (two Macs, two Winboxes), 3 desktop PCs, 2 iPhones, an iPad, a Blackberry (it's for work, don't laugh :lol: ), 3 iPods, a Slingbox, 2 XBox 360's, a PS3, a Sony BD player, a Canon multifunction network printer/scanner and an Apple TV on the LAN, all using DHCP.
> 
> You guys with issues need better routers.


I've tried DHCP with all my DIRECTV HD DVR's and the problem I see is when the STB goes through lease renewal any WHDVR session on that box will pause/stop for a few seconds while the process completes. My Netgear router has no place to change the lease renewal time, it's fixed at 24 hours, so the STB's renew every 12.


----------



## gslater

RAD said:


> I've tried DHCP with all my DIRECTV HD DVR's and the problem I see is when the STB goes through lease renewal any WHDVR session on that box will pause/stop for a few seconds while the process completes. My Netgear router has no place to change the lease renewal time, it's fixed at 24 hours, so the STB's renew every 12.


Bummer. I've never seen that behavior but I've never checked my lease renewal times. I like the idea of knowing which receiver is which in my network. I do use DHCP but I use reservations to make sure they always get the same IP address. Means I can manage them all from the router and not have to go back through setup on the devices to set the IP's.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Hmm... I thought this was an HD GUI thread. Maybe this is like the fights and a Hockey game broke out. 

So let's go back to a HD GUI anticipation thread.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RAD

"gslater" said:


> Bummer. I've never seen that behavior but I've never checked my lease renewal times. I like the idea of knowing which receiver is which in my network. I do use DHCP but I use reservations to make sure they always get the same IP address. Means I can manage them all from the router and not have to go back through setup on the devices to set the IP's.


Did reservations also, made no difference, static is the only thing that fixed it for me.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Crickets


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Looking forward to this!


----------



## sigma1914

SPACEMAKER said:


> Crickets


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2829845#post2829845


----------



## SPACEMAKER

sigma1914 said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2829845#post2829845


So typically, are these new features delivered on time or are these usually optimistic projections?


----------



## Jeremy W

SPACEMAKER said:


> So typically, are these new features delivered on time or are these usually optimistic projections?


It's already starting to slip a little. It was October before, now it's October/November.


----------



## zeus

I'm anticipating within the HD GUI will be a unified GUI (ok, more like dreaming...)

It would be amazing if using my current HR24-100 boxes I could select (for instance) "tuner 4 Bedroom" to record a program rather than having to run to said room and manually set up the recording.

Currently, I spend a lot of time juggling to make sure that each DVR has a tuner free when occupied (for live channel surfing) while still recording all the shows that I want to watch.

The online guide does offer an opportunity to do this to some extent on the fly, but it is less than optimal. 

A system that would do recording conflict resolution across multiple DVR units would be awesome!


----------



## Araxen

Static IP if you know how to do it is better for managing your network. If you need to open up ports for your Xbox 360 or PS3 to play online they need to be static IP's otherwise you have to hope the DHCP assigns the IP you want the ports opened up on. 
On my laptop I need to open up port 113 for Ident for IRC and for Bittorrent I need to open up another set of ports. Having UPNP turned on in your router is a security risk so it isn't an option for me.


----------



## harsh

SPACEMAKER said:


> So typically, are these new features delivered on time or are these usually optimistic projections?


Casual observation suggests that DIRECTV has trouble meeting Q4 deliveries be they hardware or programming. I think they forget (on an annual basis) that there are a couple of major holidays in there.

Maybe the Mike White DIRECTV is different.


----------



## harsh

zeus said:


> It would be amazing if using my current HR24-100 boxes I could select (for instance) "tuner 4 Bedroom" to record a program rather than having to run to said room and manually set up the recording.


It may be folly to reason that a new GUI is going to be accompanied by significant functional changes.


----------



## cypherx

Yeah I thought HD GUI beta testing was Summer 2011 so that kinks were worked out for a Fall 2011 release. They are still updating the current "legacy" guide (even if they are very small revisions). Continuing to put time, money and effort into something that will be phased out tells me that maybe the release is slipping. Though Mike White was the one who said October during an interview. It will be neat to see them create a new HD GUI so quickly when yet TiVo is struggling to get their "series 2" era SD UI rolled out to last generation receivers. I wonder which one will come out first? I'll laugh so hard if it's DirecTV's HDUI because it just shows how pathetic TiVo was. Not that I want a 10 year old TiVo interface on yesterday's hardware anyway. I can't wait for the HD UI. I'm salivating at getting a glimpse of it!


----------



## zeus

harsh said:


> It may be folly to reason that a new GUI is going to be accompanied by significant functional changes.


I understand that the HD GUI, just might be that...an HD GUI that is identical to the current SD GUI - but in HD.

However, there have been hints dropped here and there from those "in the know" that the HD GUI will be bringing new features to the table (getting back to the social networking discussion...)

Not to mention the HR34 seemingly will have this functionality on day one.

Thus, it would not be a stretch to think that in updating the GUI they would also address the biggest weakness of the current MRV setup.

I'm allowed to dream, right?


----------



## Jeremy W

cypherx said:


> Yeah I thought HD GUI beta testing was Summer 2011 so that kinks were worked out for a Fall 2011 release.


With something as big as the HD GUI, I bet any money there is a private field test going on right now.


----------



## Tom Robertson

zeus said:


> I understand that the HD GUI, just might be that...an HD GUI that is identical to the current SD GUI - but in HD.
> 
> However, there have been hints dropped here and there from those "in the know" that the HD GUI will be bringing new features to the table (getting back to the social networking discussion...)
> 
> Not to mention the HR34 seemingly will have this functionality on day one.
> 
> Thus, it would not be a stretch to think that in updating the GUI they would also address the biggest weakness of the current MRV setup.
> 
> I'm allowed to dream, right?


You most certainly are allowed to dream. Big, wonderful dreams. And if they include some cool stuff for DIRECTV stuff, we all can share in them. 

Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## zeus

Tom Robertson said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?


To start off, it is an amazing system and I love it. I would find it hard to go back to the "each DVR lives in its own ecosystem" way of watching television.

The primary weakness is that I can not control the other DVR timers from the DVR I am currently at, nor can I see timers and work conflict resolution amongst the timers.

Thus, I always have to run back and forth physically between the DVRs to build a recording schedule (I also write down the timers set on the secondary DVR so that I can remember what is recording when.)

I often end up "stuck" where I am forced to watch live on one DVR while the other DVR sits idle because two timers are on the primary DVR and there is no easy way to offload it to the other DVR (without shuffling and trying to arrange entire recording schedules.)

It would be amazing to see, "Record on DVR Bedroom" rather than - record when possible or cancel.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Jeremy W said:


> With something as big as the HD GUI, I bet any money there is a private field test going on right now.


For the right price I'll post a few pics of the HDGUI.


----------



## RAD

"Tom Robertson" said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


My answer to that question is that HR's can't manage recordings on other HR's.


----------



## zeus

RAD said:


> My answer to that question is that HR's can't manage recordings on other HR's.


Your answer was much more succinct and to the point.


----------



## nc88keyz

Tom Robertson said:


> Twelve receivers is not too many. Not at all. Actually sounds like a good start...
> 
> I haven't had much drop off of receivers, I'm kinda surprised you do. Though I'm back down to 7 DVRs these days. Or is it 8? I guess I'm going to have to count again.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom,

lets make this interesting,

How many heated square feet do you have vs. how many dvrs.

I have 6 HD DVRs, 4 in family room, 1 in master, 1 in bonus room, and and hdmi reoeater from the bonus room to the guest room. Its nice having 8 tuners on master control. All controled with the harmony 880, and a denon AVR4311ci for master control.

As for the footage, 1750, finished, 450 unfinished that desperately would like a home theater makover, but will need to redo hvac before that room becomes a reality.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Tom Robertson said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?


*OK... terribly off-topic, and I've stated it before, but Tom asked, so I'm going to play along.* 

MRV is "dumb."

Before anybody makes any smarty remarks trying to defend MRV, I _LOVE_ having MRV. My statement is not an insult. Think of the terms "dumb phone" and "smart phone." "Dumb phones" are not bad cell phones, as they are perfectly adequate at making phone calls, the point of a phone to begin with. Smart phones however add additional features and functions to your phone. As it is now, MRV is pretty basic as far as features go, and has VERY little customization available.

*FEATURES I'D LIKE TO SEE ADDED:*

*The ability to omit DVRs:* _You might state that this feature is already available. You would be correct! However, at this time, the feature is a all-or-nothing option. What would be great is if a feature for multiple DVRs were added to allow for instance, the master bedroom DVR's programs to be shown in the living room, but not in little Dylan's room... by that same token, you might want the shows in the Living Room to be shown on little Dylan's STB._

*The ability to customize what programs are shared:* _For instance, you might want "Spongebob Squarepants" recorded on the living room DVR to show up on little Dylan's STB, but you might not want "True Blood", "Weeds", "Femme Fatales", "Californication", etc. to show up on it._

MRV is great. It can be VERY convenient, but I think it can be improved greatly. I've come up with other ideas in the past, and I'm sure I could come up with even more, but the above are two ideas in which I think it can be improved.

~Alan


----------



## Drucifer

Tom Robertson said:


> . . . .
> 
> Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


No network features.


----------



## Drucifer

Hutchinshouse said:


> For the right price I'll post a few pics of the HDGUI.


How much is your life worth? :eek2:


----------



## RobertE

Alan Gordon said:


> *The ability to customize what programs are shared:* _For instance, you might want "Spongebob Squarepants" recorded on the living room DVR to show up on little Dylan's STB, but you might not want "True Blood", "Weeds", "Femme Fatales", "Californication", etc. to show up on it._


You can get 1/3 of the way there by using parental controls on little Dylans STB. The titles wills till show in the list, but he won't be able to play them back.


----------



## cypherx

RobertE said:


> You can get 1/3 of the way there by using parental controls on little Dylans STB. The titles wills till show in the list, but he won't be able to play them back.


Well then maybe an easier to program and debug solution is an option that says
Hide programming by parental controls [On / Off (default)]

Be easier than going into every single program and say hide or not.

But anyway I want to see the HD-GUI. Lets get back to that!


----------



## cypherx

Speaking of advanced services:

Michael White - Chairman, President and CEO: I think *the Nomad product which is the ability to port your content from your DVR onto you iPad, I expect you'll see that in some geographies before the end of the year.* We're probably going to do it in a fewer geographies to make sure that its working flawlessly, before we'd roll it out fully, so roll out might be in 2012. But you'll see that before the end of the year. The high-definition user interface comes in the fourth quarter. We'll also *I would expect to be streaming Pay Per View and premium channels on My DIRECTV.com probably in the fourth quarter*, I think *we're expecting or going to launch the whole media center which will have a kind of high-end DVR or new subs in the fourth quarter as well.* So, we've got a lot of things that I feel pretty good about that will roll into the fourth quarter, albeit and I think you'll see more of the benefits of that probably in 2012 than in 2011 in terms of the acceleration of momentum.
&#8230;
We certainly know from history that advanced products in general, we do see a lower churn rate on our advanced products when we go on basic or standard (desk) customers. So, if history is any guide then, I'm pretty confident and I also think that the quality of the experience and I think that's where we've got probably still some more work to do to *fill in some more VOD content and really with the HD user interface really make that experience pop for the consumer. I think, we're bringing Pandora into it*. *We're doing a bunch of things to make it just an absolutely knock your socks off experience for customer*. As I said, we're already getting more than we had planned in ARPU lift out of those customers. So, I feel great about the connected box strategy, I think we're just working through some of the operational things.

Full transcript at Morningstar


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

I spent a couple of days with a Time Warner Cable HD GUI. 

Trust me, I'd rather have a black & white 480i low-def GUI than that piece of junk. The current D* boxes are a million times better even though they're SD.

To summarize, an HD GUI looks nice, but it needs to perform.


----------



## ATARI

wilbur_the_goose said:


> To summarize, an HD GUI looks nice, but it needs to perform.


Yes!!

If an HD GUI is slower than the SD GUI, then I don't want it.


----------



## Jeremy W

ATARI said:


> If an HD GUI is slower than the SD GUI, then I don't want it.


From what I've heard, you're going to want it.


----------



## pfp

Tom Robertson said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you consider weaknesses of the current MRV setup?


The inability to mange other DVR's recordings from the one you are at.


----------



## Alan Gordon

RobertE said:


> You can get 1/3 of the way there by using parental controls on little Dylans STB. The titles wills till show in the list, but he won't be able to play them back.


Considering my whole point was that they show up, the fact that they won't play doesn't even amount to a 1/3 of the way there.

As for Parental Controls, that's a whole other subject. Unlike MRV which I think is great, but could be better, I'm not fond of DirecTV's Parental Controls. Thankfully, it's not an issue for me at this time since I'm not a parent.

~Alan


----------



## Hutchinshouse

I hope this HDGUI has a very robust “Channels I get” feature.


----------



## cypherx

"Hutchinshouse" said:


> I hope this HDGUI has a very robust "Channels I get" feature.


Lol

It be nice if the new gui could sync up your favorite channels on the iPad.

Easier to just tap on the iPad then use arrow keys on the remote sometimes.


----------



## Lord Vader

LameLefty said:


> Holy crap, Rich. You need to get out of the house more often! It's only TV . . . :lol:


He ain't the only one with 12 HRs. 

My primary TV that is part of my home theater setup has 3 HRs connected to it, and one of those HRs has a 1TB eSata drive attached.


----------



## mx6bfast

Lord Vader said:


> He ain't the only one with 12 HRs.
> 
> My primary TV that is part of my home theater setup has 3 HRs connected to it, and one of those HRs has a 1TB eSata drive attached.


Did ya'll see that episode of Hoarders where that lady had multiple TV's and VCR's hooked up to each one and was doing nothing but recording shows without watching them? She had thousands of tapes........


----------



## tonyd79

"mx6bfast" said:


> Did ya'll see that episode of Hoarders where that lady had multiple TV's and VCR's hooked up to each one and was doing nothing but recording shows without watching them? She had thousands of tapes........


They should help her out by getting her DVRs and a disk farm. Save space.


----------



## makaiguy

tonyd79 said:


> They should help her out by getting her DVRs and a disk farm. Save space.


Saving space does not seem to be one of her priorities. It is about the ONLY thing she doesn't save ...


----------



## Rich

mx6bfast said:


> Did ya'll see that episode of Hoarders where that lady had multiple TV's and VCR's hooked up to each one and was doing nothing but recording shows without watching them? She had thousands of tapes........


Before I got into DVRs, I had twelve VCRs running constantly and a few hundred blank tapes. Glad that nightmare is over.

Rich


----------



## billsharpe

rich584 said:


> Before I got into DVRs, I had twelve VCRs running constantly and a few hundred blank tapes. Glad that nightmare is over.
> 
> Rich


Wow!

We have two DVR's. One is running 75% free space; the other is 95%. Those numbers will go up a little when we resubscribe to HBO for Boardwalk Empire later this month and as the college football season progresses.

Of course there's just two of us...


----------



## Rich

billsharpe said:


> Wow!
> 
> We have two DVR's. One is running 75% free space; the other is 95%. Those numbers will go up a little when we resubscribe to HBO for Boardwalk Empire later this month and as the college football season progresses.
> 
> Of course there's just two of us...


My son has two HRs, we have ten and we're still working on last year's shows. I keep my DVRs at about 50% of full capacity, which is 2TBs on most of them. I have not missed a show because of HR, HDD or any other kind of failure in years. And, for the most part, it's just the wife and me watching them. I back up everything at least four times. I do have one HR dedicated to movies.

Rich


----------



## LameLefty

rich584 said:


> My son has two HRs, we have ten and we're still working on last year's shows. I keep my DVRs at about 50% of full capacity, which is 2TBs on most of them. I have not missed a show because of HR, HDD or any other kind of failure in years. And, for the most part, it's just the wife and me watching them. I back up everything at least four times. I do have one HR dedicated to movies.
> 
> Rich


You realize there's an actual, you know, WORLD beyond the television, right? 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Tom Robertson

LameLefty said:


> You realize there's an actual, you know, WORLD beyond the television, right?
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yes. Football. On the window to the world. 

(Except those times I can get back to GB for a Packer game.)


----------



## Rich

LameLefty said:


> You realize there's an actual, you know, WORLD beyond the television, right?
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


I rarely watch TV during the day. Just when the wife comes home. Be that as it may, I'm not returning any working HRs so I might as well use them. As they start to break down, I'll get rid of them.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Hutchinshouse said:


> I hope this HDGUI has a very robust "Channels I get" feature.


That Actually Works as Advertised!!!

My Channels I Get is Worthless as it doesn't work correctly!!!


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> My son has two HRs, we have ten and we're still working on last year's shows. I keep my DVRs at about 50% of full capacity, which is 2TBs on most of them. I have not missed a show because of HR, HDD or any other kind of failure in years. And, for the most part, it's just the wife and me watching them. I back up everything at least four times. I do have one HR dedicated to movies.
> 
> Rich


Rich and I do the same thing as I have 7 DVRs in Total with 13,000 Gigabytes of Storage Capacity and I have 3 of my DVRs backing up the other 4 DVRs as I don't have to back up everything just things I want to make sure I have in the Future if I choose to watch them such as the Masters Golf Tournament or the U. S. Open Golf Tournament, etc.

Hopefully in the Future Directv may give us the Ability to have an Archival Process so we can Back Up our DVRs but until then we just use other DVRs to back up the other DVRs.


----------



## bryguyboi

Alright, back to the topic at hand. Is there any new information/timetable on an updated HD GUI?


----------



## cypherx

I hope the HDGUI comes on time. Ben over at EngadgetHD said in last weeks podcast that direcTV is never on time. From waiting for mpeg4, to new DVRs and now direcTivo and new HD channels.

I just hope they redeem themselves this time and show us what's up. Here's to anticipating!


----------



## BudShark

Ben at EngadgetHD would be incorrect.


----------



## Lord Vader

I confess that I've been rather busy to not even pay attention to all this HDGUI stuff. What exactly is going on? Was DirecTV supposed to be changing the GUI altogether?


----------



## kiknwing

"Lord Vader" said:


> I confess that I've been rather busy to not even pay attention to all this HDGUI stuff. What exactly is going on? Was DirecTV supposed to be changing the GUI altogether?


It's going to be a complete overhaul, inside and out. The CEO said it's going to be really fast.


----------



## cypherx

Lord Vader said:


> I confess that I've been rather busy to not even pay attention to all this HDGUI stuff. What exactly is going on? Was DirecTV supposed to be changing the GUI altogether?


Yes. Supposedly it will be in HD resolution with crisp text and smooth graphics. The UI is supposed to be rewritten in a way that makes it operate faster. I believe Mike White attributed it to scrolling through a spreadsheet. I don't know about you, but I can scroll through an Excel spreadsheet really fast.

I just see all those crisp text and easy to read fonts with sharp graphics all the time on scoreboards like Fox sports, CBS Sports, ESPN, and even the sharp text and graphics on CNN, CNBC+ HD and other channels. I'd love if the whole operation matched that level if crisp quality. Also when DirecTV does those mix channels like the golf for example, the text was so crystal clear and just looked very modern and sharp.


----------



## Lord Vader

Ah, OK. So that means we should expect this by 2013 or so, when the HR2Xs have all been discontinued, right?


----------



## davidpo

Well the ceo also said it would be available sometime in october. Now how many truly believe it will be ready by then without tons of bugs,slowness etc. I hope im wrong,but I figure it will be buggy and slow for a good while.


----------



## betterdan

Lord Vader said:


> Ah, OK. So that means we should expect this by 2013 or so, when the HR2Xs have all been discontinued, right?


noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

:grin:


----------



## cypherx

Lord Vader said:


> Ah, OK. So that means we should expect this by 2013 or so, when the HR2Xs have all been discontinued, right?


Thats what Engadget HD editors Ben and Richard are joking. Their basis? Past DirecTV experiences.
Long wait for MPEG4.
Long wait for the HR24 to come out.
Long wait for SWM
Long wait for more HBO/Max HD channels (announced in what... 2007 and we just got them a few months ago?)
Long wait for DirecTivo (still waiting...)
Long wait for more HD channels (its about time AMC HD is launching next week).
Still waiting for RVU to come out.
Still waiting for HR34.... etc..

Like I said they are basing this annoucement on past experiences. It's not just DirecTV.... Comcast displayed a really slick HD guide at CES in what... 2007 or so? It's STILL NOT RELEASED. Verizon delayed their HD-GUI (IMG 1.9) for a long time as well.

Seems like the service providers just take a little more time. I guess when you have so much pieces of technology out there and millions of customers, you really have to take your time. Some of it seems like a little TOO much time, but what do I know. I can't really armchair quarterback this one.

I just hope this is not one of those delays. Many of you believe it won't be delayed, so I will hang tight (but not hold my breath)!


----------



## Nodes of Ranvier

How can I become a beta tester and get this on my box?


----------



## inkahauts

"Hutchinshouse" said:


> I hope this HDGUI has a very robust "Channels I get" feature.


Cig has nothing to do with the hd gui, or today's GUI. It's on directv's end with their assigning channels in the guide data properly.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

inkahauts said:


> Cig has nothing to do with the hd gui, or today's GUI. It's on directv's end with their assigning channels in the guide data properly.


That's kind of what I thought. However, the DIRECTV iPad app CIG works fine. Do we have two different data guides? :shrug:


----------



## inkahauts

"cypherx" said:


> Thats what Engadget HD editors Ben and Richard are joking. Their basis? Past DirecTV experiences.
> Long wait for MPEG4.
> Long wait for the HR24 to come out.
> Long wait for SWM
> Long wait for more HBO/Max HD channels (announced in what... 2007 and we just got them a few months ago?)
> Long wait for DirecTivo (still waiting...)
> Long wait for more HD channels (its about time AMC HD is launching next week).
> Still waiting for RVU to come out.
> Still waiting for HR34.... etc..
> 
> Like I said they are basing this annoucement on past experiences. It's not just DirecTV.... Comcast displayed a really slick HD guide at CES in what... 2007 or so? It's STILL NOT RELEASED. Verizon delayed their HD-GUI (IMG 1.9) for a long time as well.
> 
> Seems like the service providers just take a little more time. I guess when you have so much pieces of technology out there and millions of customers, you really have to take your time. Some of it seems like a little TOO much time, but what do I know. I can't really armchair quarterback this one.
> 
> I just hope this is not one of those delays. Many of you believe it won't be delayed, so I will hang tight (but not hold my breath)!


I'll give him hbo...

TiVo isn't DirecTV,it's TiVo, so that's a joke in and of itself.

I don't get the comment at all on the hr24. How was it a long wait if it was never promised to anyone a any point in time?

Mpeg4 actually hit far sooner than it was anticipated.

DirecTV hasn't missed any more hd launches as of late, they haven't made any announcements either way. They should have complained about not adding more, not missing deadlines, since there haven't been ay other deadlines to miss.

Everything else, same thing. Maybe they wanted it faster, but I don't recall DirecTV announcing swim, rvu etc and saying it'd be out sooner than it was. Rvu isn't even supposed to hit till late this year or early next year, so how can you consider that late?


----------



## inkahauts

"Hutchinshouse" said:


> That's kind of what I thought. However, the DIRECTV iPad app CIG works fine. Do we have two different data guides? :shrug:


Don't get me started.


----------



## ejjames

Maybe this is a rumor already circulated, but I heard that the HD GUI is currently undergoing pre-beta internal testing which started in August. They hope to have a CE version in Seot. , with NR in October.

If they hit those dates I'll eat my hat!

To me, this is FAR more exciting than any channel launch! I feel like Cartman pacing outside the toy store waiting for the Wii to be launched.


----------



## Grydlok

cypherx said:


> I hope the HDGUI comes on time. Ben over at EngadgetHD said in last weeks podcast that direcTV is never on time. From waiting for mpeg4, to new DVRs and now direcTivo and new HD channels.
> 
> I just hope they redeem themselves this time and show us what's up. Here's to anticipating!


you do know the rules to the CE?


----------



## gio12

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/03/directvs-new-hd-ui-revealed-to-testers-is-prettier-and-faster/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

gio12 said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/03/directvs-new-hd-ui-revealed-to-testers-is-prettier-and-faster/


Nice to know Engadget reads DBSTalk (note the last sentence).


----------



## BudShark

gio12 said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/03/directvs-new-hd-ui-revealed-to-testers-is-prettier-and-faster/





BudShark said:


> Ben at EngadgetHD would be incorrect.





cypherx said:


> I hope the HDGUI comes on time. Ben over at EngadgetHD said in last weeks podcast that direcTV is never on time. From waiting for mpeg4, to new DVRs and now direcTivo and new HD channels.
> 
> I just hope they redeem themselves this time and show us what's up. Here's to anticipating!


So does this OFFICIALLY make Ben wrong???? :lol:

There is ONE source for DirecTV info that has reliably been more accurate than any site on the web. And that is DBSTalk. Everyone else, either sources from DBSTalk or has sketchy info at best.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Wow can't wait to have HD GUI


----------



## lparsons21

Is that picture supposed to be what the HDGUI looks like? If so, that is disappointing to me. Still the same old 1.5 hour timeframe.


----------



## mreposter

lparsons21 said:


> Is that picture supposed to be what the HDGUI looks like? If so, that is disappointing to me. Still the same old 1.5 hour timeframe.


+1. It'd be nice to have an option or two - I'd prefer to see a 2 or 3 hour grid in a smaller font size, while others might prefer something with larger fonts.


----------



## lparsons21

One of the differences between D* and E* is in the guide presentation. I think E*'s is far superior in how it displays the guide - i.e.; a 3-hour window with 6 or 7 lines of channels.

OTOH, I really like the ability to see the listings for just one channel that D* offers.

I think that with an HDGUI they should be able to get 3 hours in and be quite readable. It is on E*'s and that one isn't even HD.

From my perspective, if that picture is what the HDGUI will look like - meh...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> One of the differences between D* and E* is in the guide presentation. *I think E*'s is far superior *in how it displays the guide - i.e.; a 3-hour window with 6 or 7 lines of channels.


...then again...others have a contrasting view as to which one is "superior"...

It often comes down to how readible things are and where you draw the line on something being "cluttered".


----------



## Hutchinshouse

inkahauts said:


> Don't get me started.


What does that mean? CIG works on the iPad app. Clearly, DIRECTV is sending what they need to send in order for it to work correctly on the app. So I'll ask again because I truly don't know. Why does CIG work fine on the iPad, but not on my DVRs?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Hutchinshouse said:


> What does that mean? CIG works on the iPad app. Clearly, DIRECTV is sending what they need to send in order for it to work correctly on the app. So I'll ask again because I truly don't know. Why does CIG work fine on the iPad, but not on my DVRs?


I'm not sure anyone here can answer that question. We would need to know how the software was written and why.

That's info I'm sure we'll never have here. Just a guess but it makes sense to me.

Mike


----------



## lparsons21

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...then again...others have a contrasting view as to which one is "superior"...
> 
> It often comes down to how readible things are and where you draw the line on something being "cluttered".


Absolutely! I was expressing my opinion, I thought that was clear.

I didn't see clutter on the E* presentation of the guide and it was perfectly readable from across the room for these 67 year old eyes. It is pretty plain though.

As to clutter, well when I go to the 500's on D* - now THAT'S clutter!!


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Mike Bertelson said:


> I'm not sure anyone here can answer that question. We would need to know how the software was written and why.
> 
> That's info I'm sure we'll never have here. Just a guess but it makes sense to me.
> 
> Mike


Yeah, maybe one day it will work. With any luck they're working on it. If not, they should remove the faulty feature from the UI.


----------



## lparsons21

Hutchinshouse said:


> Yeah, maybe one day it will work. With any luck they're working on it. If not, they should remove the faulty feature from the UI.


Well it hasn't worked right in at least 4 years that I know of, so I don't think holding our collective breath is in order!! :lol:


----------



## uscboy

It is ridiculous that we haven't been able to show more than 1.5 hours in the guide yet. This update really needs to include that ability.


----------



## RunnerFL

uscboy said:


> It is ridiculous that we haven't been able to show more than 1.5 hours in the guide yet. This update really needs to include that ability.


Who's to say this isn't a "first draft" and on down the line we won't get the ability to see more time?


----------



## Drucifer

lparsons21 said:


> Is that picture supposed to be what the HDGUI looks like? If so, that is disappointing to me. Still the same old 1.5 hour timeframe.


Well maybe smaller font size will be in Future releases. The First release is just for converting.


----------



## TBoneit

lparsons21 said:


> Absolutely! I was expressing my opinion, I thought that was clear.
> 
> I didn't see clutter on the E* presentation of the guide and it was perfectly readable from across the room for these 67 year old eyes. It is pretty plain though.
> 
> As to clutter, well when I go to the 500's on D* - now THAT'S clutter!!


IMHO better 3 hours plain looking than 1.5 Hours pretty. 
A 1.5 hour guide is a joke. I expect to see a 1.5 hour guide on a cable box.

You need to be able to see the whole 3 hours of an evenings programming if you are like me and check to see if there are any new shows or timer conflicts.


----------



## LameLefty

TBoneit said:


> IMHO better 3 hours plain looking than 1.5 Hours pretty.
> A 1.5 hour guide is a joke. I expect to see a 1.5 hour guide on a cable box.
> 
> You need to be able to see the whole 3 hours of an evenings programming if you are like me and check to see if there are any new shows or timer conflicts.


No, let's be clear. *YOU* need to see 3 hours of programming. That's an opinion, not a fact. Not everyone does, nor does everyone prefer the same things.

Personally I do not need a 3 hour view. I would LIKE 2 hours but given a fast-enough response to remote commands, I can easily survive with 90 minutes, especially with a nice clear, readable uncluttered view.


----------



## billsharpe

I'm fine with the current guide size, although increasing the hours and number of channels displayed might be nice.

I use the guide mainly to find shows that I might want to record, not to check tonight's programming. And, yes, I also use the search function to find shows but sometimes the results are ridiculous. Search often finds shows on channels I don't get.


----------



## lparsons21

billsharpe said:


> I'm fine with the current guide size, although increasing the hours and number of channels displayed might be nice.
> 
> I use the guide mainly to find shows that I might want to record, not to check tonight's programming. And, yes, I also use the search function to find shows but sometimes the results are ridiculous. Search often finds shows on channels I don't get.


I'm fine with the size right now too, but the text could be made smaller and still very readable so that you could squeeze a 3-hour window into it. I'm elderly with not very good eyes and I saw that work fine on Dish.

I like the 3 hour window because it covers the prime time with one view and makes for scheduling the different prime time shows much easier, especially the 'broadcast' stuff that doesn't repeat often.


----------



## uscboy

Obviously "readable" is subjective.... And it varies for each person and screen size. But it isn't some complicated thing to give users the ability to choose different amounts for themselves, that's my point. My guide isn't ugly and pixelated now, it just needs to show more time. And fewer ads, lol.


----------



## lparsons21

uscboy said:


> Obviously "readable" is subjective.... And it varies for each person and screen size. But it isn't some complicated thing to give users the ability to choose different amounts for themselves, that's my point. My guide isn't ugly and pixelated now, it just needs to show more time. And fewer ads, lol.


As I've said, I liked Dish's guide presentation better and one of the reasons was that it was settable to different views. Basically giving you bigger fonts which resulted in a narrower window and fewer channels displayed. All selectable by the user, and not in HD at all.

And +1 for the ads in the channel lines...


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Absolutely! I was expressing my opinion, I thought that was clear.


That's why I usually add "I think" to any post that might be taken literally.  Be nice to have a Smilie for that...:lol:

A lot of the arguments that we see are because the writer means what he types to be just an opinion, but folks take it as a statement of fact. Can't blame either party, just the way things are when we're not face to face. Even then...

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RunnerFL said:


> Who's to say this isn't a "first draft" and on down the line we won't get the ability to see more time?


Thanks for pointing that out. Some posters responded like this is out as a National release version instead of the first CE group version.

As you correctly stted...expect more tweaks...hopefully not more text shrinkage or clutter though.


----------



## underlord2

rich584 said:


> That's why I usually add "I think" to any post that might be taken literally. Be nice to have a Smilie for that...:lol:
> 
> A lot of the arguments that we see are because the writer means what he types to be just an opinion, but folks take it as a statement of fact. Can't blame either party, just the way things are when we're not face to face. Even then...
> 
> Rich


Yeah.. and the hostility doesn't need to be here. 

I know people are passionate for DirecTV and want to hate on anything different (or different ideas or Sat TV providers), but it's just a forum and this unwarranted angst needs to go. I personally don't get super upset if someone has a different idea I don't like


----------



## skinnyJM

Drucifer said:


> Well maybe smaller font size will be in Future releases. The First release is just for converting.


I agree. I think DIRECTV should be much more focused on a smooth and stable conversion and then add options (like a 3 hour view) later.


----------



## Cmoney326

I really want to get the new interface. Can someone help me figure out how to do it?


----------



## litzdog911

Cmoney326 said:


> I really want to get the new interface. Can someone help me figure out how to do it?


Not possible this week. You'll need to check out the rules of the Cutting Edge (CE) Forum and watch for further information there ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=171


----------



## Tom Robertson

Please do not talk about "how to get this download" in this thread. That would be part of the CE process and should be discussed in the CE forums that litzdog911 pointed to.

Further posts about CEs will be deleted from this thread.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Cmoney326

Tom Robertson said:


> Please do not talk about "how to get this download" in this thread. That would be part of the CE process and should be discussed in the CE forums that litzdog911 pointed to.
> 
> Further posts about CEs will be deleted from this thread.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Well excuse me Tom. This thread is "anticipating the HD GUI". Well it's here now and I can't ask you "experts" how to get it? Not the way to treat a new member.


----------



## veryoldschool

Cmoney326 said:


> Well excuse me Tom. This thread is "anticipating the HD GUI". *Well it's here now *and I can't ask you "experts" how to get it? Not the way to treat a new member.


Well this isn't exactly true, or this wouldn't be an anticipation thread.
It will be "here", when it goes national.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Cmoney326 said:


> Well excuse me Tom. This thread is "anticipating the HD GUI". Well it's here now and I can't ask you "experts" how to get it? Not the way to treat a new member.


Your question has already been answered. Please check out the linked information. That will tell you everything you need to know and give you places to ask more questions.

Cheers,
Tom

Edit: Posts have been and will continue to be deleted that discuss the CE forums.


----------



## mx6bfast

gio12 said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/03/directvs-new-hd-ui-revealed-to-testers-is-prettier-and-faster/


Kinda surprised they were able to get a shot without guide spam in it.


----------



## Smthkd

So when will the rest of us get the chance to try this again?


----------



## dpeters11

"Smthkd" said:


> So when will the rest of us get the chance to try this again?


The only timeframe Mike White gave was October. Could be then, could be November, even without a delay. I'd think this rollout would be a slow one to ease the call centers.


----------



## yosoyellobo

dpeters11 said:


> The only timeframe Mike White gave was October. Could be then, could be November, even without a delay. I'd think this rollout would be a slow one to ease the call centers.


How about rolling out as optional at first. Once most of the bugs are work out they roll it out to the general population.


----------



## Lord Vader

They're doing essentially that with the CE program. We test it, report bugs and issues, etc. When DirecTV believes it's all ready to go nationally, it's released as a customer release.


----------



## tonyd79

yosoyellobo said:


> How about rolling out as optional at first. Once most of the bugs are work out they roll it out to the general population.


They roll out new software gradually, not in one big blast.

They do engage in customer testing of new software regularly.


----------



## djzack67

Would love to be a test subject . As a homebound person I use my DTV and guide about 15 hours a day


----------



## Drucifer

djzack67 said:


> Would love to be a test subject . As a homebound person I use my DTV and guide about 15 hours a day


Just read and follow all the instruction in the Stickie Threads here

And you're in.


----------



## RACJ2

I like the way the HD GUI looks, but the old SD version didn't really bother me. What I can't wait for is this part "a serious performance boost to satellite receivers".


----------



## Tom Robertson

RACJ2 said:


> I like the way the HD GUI looks, but the old SD version didn't really bother me. What I can't wait for is this part "a serious performance boost to satellite receivers".


----------



## chapel

Does the new UI fix the series limitation of 50? that's all I want to know.


----------



## sigma1914

chapel said:


> Does the new UI fix the series limitation of 50? that's all I want to know.


No.


----------



## dpeters11

chapel said:


> Does the new UI fix the series limitation of 50? that's all I want to know.


I believe only the HR34 will remove that restriction.


----------



## chapel

sigma1914 said:


> No.





dpeters11 said:


> I believe only the HR34 will remove that restriction.


damnit... so I just have to hold tight until then.
Thanks for the quick response. Such a ridiculous limitation.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

chapel said:


> damnit... so I just have to hold tight until then.
> Thanks for the quick response. *Such a ridiculous limitation*.


...and yet many folks see no "limitation at all"...either by not needing that many Series Links in the first place...or else having more than on HD DVR that exponential grows the list.


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> or else having more than on HD DVR that exponential grows the list.


The growth is linear, not exponential.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Jeremy W said:


> The growth is linear, not exponential.


Now we're pitting nicks...but ok...

2 X 50 = 100. Enough said.


----------



## txfeinbergs

I am ... underwhelmed. I, like a few others have posted on here, would have loved to see a 3 hour window. That would have actually not only made the guide prettier, but would have improved the usefulness as well.


----------



## Jeremy W

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Now we're pitting nicks...


Just trying to cut out some hyperbole.


----------



## chapel

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and yet many folks see no "limitation at all"...either by not needing that many Series Links in the first place...or else having more than on HD DVR that exponential grows the list.


I only have one TV.
Here's the problem:
Thursday night:
I have 6-8 shows I watch... and that's for just the fall/winter season. I have another 6-8 shows for the spring/summer season

so, that's 12-16 shows... for just one night... for myself.
Then there's another 12-16 shows on Sunday nights
another 8-12 on Mondays
and maybe another 8 shows on Tuesdays and Wednesdays...
so, for just my shows (which i share viewing with my wife on about 75%) that's 40-52 series recordings.)

and there's my wife's shows
and my kid's shows.

So, I'm constantly having to remove series in their 'off season' and always forgetting to re-add them when they come on... mostly missing the first week or two...

It's annoying as hell coming from the original DirecTiVo... which allowed us to record at will.


----------



## Herdfan

billsharpe said:


> Wow!
> 
> We have two DVR's. One is running 75% free space; the other is 95%. Those numbers will go up a little when we resubscribe to HBO for Boardwalk Empire later this month and as the college football season progresses.
> 
> Of course there's just two of us...


There are just 3 of us and we keep almost 5TB of space across 5 DVR's around 60% full. A lot of it is movies we record with the intention of watching them later and series that we record to see if they will make it before becoming invested. Then there are 20 episodes each of iCarly, WoWP, or True Jackson on my daughters DVR. It runs about 98% full all the time.

PS: Can't wait for BE to come back.


----------



## LameLefty

With regards to the complaints about the numbers of SLs, I think one thing needs to be remembered at all times: the outliers in a statistical group of users are NOT where developers and management typically set the goals for software. I don't think I've ever had more than 35 - 38 SLs set at any time on any of my boxes. I just don't watch THAT much TV. And honestly, the vast majority of Directv customers probably don't either, which explains why the 50 SL limit has persisted for so long. Especially now with WHDVR, "secondary" programming is often recorded on another DVR and watched remotely.


----------



## Jeremy W

LameLefty said:


> With regards to the complaints about the numbers of SLs, I think one thing needs to be remembered at all times: the outliers in a statistical group of users are NOT where developers and management typically set the goals for software.


I agree completely, and I'm sure the vast majority of DirecTV subscribers don't even know that such a limit exists. I just find it interesting that it was left in place, since there has obviously been a lot of work done to the core of the DVR.


----------



## Herdfan

LameLefty said:


> No, let's be clear. *YOU* need to see 3 hours of programming. That's an opinion, not a fact. Not everyone does, nor does everyone prefer the same things.


For me, 3 hours would be great on my 70" viewed from 12-13'. But on my 46" in the MBR viewed from 18-20', that would probably mean I couldn't read it.

I would like to see an option be given so that people with varying TV sizes can get what they want or need.

With regards to the 50 SL Limit, I agree with LL about who is the target audience. But I have to question the number. Was it arbitrary? If so, then why? But if it was done for a specific reason such as that was as many as could be done with the hardware they had, then fine, we'll deal. I have never hit it either, but only because I have had 2 DVR's at my main TV.


----------



## inkahauts

"chapel" said:


> I only have one TV.
> Here's the problem:
> Thursday night:
> I have 6-8 shows I watch... and that's for just the fall/winter season. I have another 6-8 shows for the spring/summer season
> 
> so, that's 12-16 shows... for just one night... for myself.
> Then there's another 12-16 shows on Sunday nights
> another 8-12 on Mondays
> and maybe another 8 shows on Tuesdays and Wednesdays...
> so, for just my shows (which i share viewing with my wife on about 75%) that's 40-52 series recordings.)
> 
> and there's my wife's shows
> and my kid's shows.
> 
> So, I'm constantly having to remove series in their 'off season' and always forgetting to re-add them when they come on... mostly missing the first week or two...
> 
> It's annoying as hell coming from the original DirecTiVo... which allowed us to record at will.


You are going to want a hr34. Solves all your problems.


----------



## spaul

I usually have about 35- 40 series links the most important thing for me with one HD DVR is to make sure that broadcast networks are higher on list.This is especially needed on Sunday nights with so much out there to watch.Most every premium and cable channel repeats their shows multiple times so,it either records at another time if conflicts with broadcast schedule recordings .On the premiums series I just manually set to record on the many viewing opportunities .Last thing about the new HD guide I have HR20-700 and H24-100and H23-600 will the guide be up dated for all my boxes or just HD box hopefully it would be all HD boxes it does look good from photo. Thanks for any info on this .


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> I agree completely, and I'm sure the vast majority of DirecTV subscribers don't even know that such a limit exists. I just find it interesting that it was left in place, since there has obviously been a lot of work done to the core of the DVR.


Has there been?

Wait...are we in CE territory here?


----------



## Alan Gordon

inkahauts said:


> You are going to want a hr34. Solves all your problems.


I too hoped the 50 series limit would go away with the HD GUI.

I am intending on getting an HR34 anyway, but it would have been nice to have on three of my other four DVRs.

Definately one of my biggest complaints about the HR2x DVRs. 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

tonyd79 said:


> Has there been?
> 
> Wait...are we in CE territory here?


It's been hypothesized ever since Mike White's comments earlier this year... and talked about numerous times in the general sections of the thread.

However, the talk about a certain limit (to which I just spoke about myself) is probably a "no-no." 

~Alan


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Alan Gordon said:


> I too hoped the 50 series limit would go away with the HD GUI.
> 
> I am intending on getting an HR34 anyway, but it would have been nice to have on three of my other four DVRs.
> 
> ~Alan


Yup, if they bump up the SL that would be cool.


----------



## sigma1914

chapel said:


> I only have one TV.
> ...


You can have more than 1 DVR on a TV. It's not an excuse to the 50 limit, but it's a very doable workaround.


----------



## tonyd79

Alan Gordon said:


> It's been hypothesized ever since Mike White's comments earlier this year... and talked about numerous times in the general sections of the thread.
> 
> However, the talk about a certain limit (to which I just spoke about myself) is probably a "no-no."
> 
> ~Alan


Well, hypothetically, if I were doing a GUI makeover, I would pretty much leave the functionality as it is for a while and just drop in the new calls to the gadgets and stuff that make up the prettier pictures that are the GUI itself.

I don't see a mapping between functionality like Season Pass limits and the color of the GUI, the font used, etc.

As for the limits themselves, they are probably there not because of the GUI but if they are there because of overall speed of the box and a faster GUI makes it possible to change the limits, I would expect that to come later (the limit itself is probably a variable, not a hardcoded 50 all over the code).


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Has there been?


Oh, no of course not. Hopefully the limit gets raised when the HD GUI comes along.

That's what I meant.


----------



## tonyd79

sigma1914 said:


> You can have more than 1 DVR on a TV. It's not an excuse to the 50 limit, but it's a very doable workaround.


I'd be hard pressed to have over 50 series recording without running into the two tuner limit as well, which a second DVR takes care of.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> I don't see a mapping between functionality like Season Pass limits and the color of the GUI, the font used, etc.


No, of course there is no correlation. The only reason they're considered together is because DirecTV is rolling out both the HD GUI and significant performance improvements at once.

Although it is certainly possible they will raise the limit in the future if they don't raise it at the launch of the HD GUI.


----------



## Alan Gordon

tonyd79 said:


> Well, hypothetically, if I were doing a GUI makeover, I would pretty much leave the functionality as it is for a while and just drop in the new calls to the gadgets and stuff that make up the prettier pictures that are the GUI itself.


I was referring to Mike White's statement regarding the speed increase coming with a new GUI this Fall...

~Alan


----------



## TBoneit

LameLefty said:


> No, let's be clear. *YOU* need to see 3 hours of programming. That's an opinion, not a fact. Not everyone does, nor does everyone prefer the same things.
> 
> Personally I do not need a 3 hour view. I would LIKE 2 hours but given a fast-enough response to remote commands, I can easily survive with 90 minutes, especially with a nice clear, readable uncluttered view.


OK, I'll go with it is an opinion.

I look a week ahead at one time and I want to see the 3 hour primetime OTA networks at one view so I can see if any new shows I want to see. So for me it is a need to save what limited time I have any way I can.

Dealing with other headaches the last two weeks made it more imperative to shave whatever time I can.


----------



## Alan Gordon

tonyd79 said:


> I'd be hard pressed to have over 50 series recording without running into the two tuner limit as well, which a second DVR takes care of.


Though I often have more than two things recording at a time myself (it's not unheard of for me to have 4+ things recording every weeknight during the Fall, Winter, and Spring months... even more so when I briefly had CW in HD last year)... not all of my programming airs at the same time.

For instance, cable programming often repeats...
Some programming airs at off-hours (daytime, late night, early morning)...
Not all programming seasons line up...

The last one of the few features I miss from TiVo... the ability to set it and forget it. Some programming ("White Collar" & "Covert Affairs" for instance) will take a month or two hiatus occasionally requiring me to delete the Series Link as soon as it goes off to make room, and then add it again shortly before it comes back. Granted, I've been very appreciative of the "TV Shows" calendar here on this site, but to be able to once again set it and forget it would be FANTASTIC!!

~Alan


----------



## RACJ2

chapel said:


> I only have one TV.
> Here's the problem:
> Thursday night:
> I have 6-8 shows I watch... and that's for just the fall/winter season. I have another 6-8 shows for the spring/summer season
> 
> so, that's 12-16 shows... for just one night... for myself.
> Then there's another 12-16 shows on Sunday nights
> another 8-12 on Mondays
> and maybe another 8 shows on Tuesdays and Wednesdays...
> so, for just my shows (which i share viewing with my wife on about 75%) that's 40-52 series recordings.)
> 
> and there's my wife's shows
> and my kid's shows.
> 
> So, I'm constantly having to remove series in their 'off season' and always forgetting to re-add them when they come on... mostly missing the first week or two...
> 
> It's annoying as hell coming from the original DirecTiVo... which allowed us to record at will.


Personally, 50 is plenty of series recordings for me, but I can see where it is an issue for you. When do you actually have time to watch 50 plus shows a week that you record just for yourself? And with 1 TV, how can the rest of your family ever get a chance to watch what they recorded?


----------



## Hutchinshouse

I anticipate being happy with the HDGUI


----------



## tonyd79

Jeremy W said:


> No, of course there is no correlation. The only reason they're considered together is because DirecTV is rolling out both the HD GUI and significant performance improvements at once.
> 
> Although it is certainly possible they will raise the limit in the future if they don't raise it at the launch of the HD GUI.


Who says the "significant performance improvement" is not from the GUI? That was implied in Mr White's announcement. There has not been a public statement that says anything about changing the core of the machine.


----------



## Jeremy W

tonyd79 said:


> Who says the "significant performance improvement" is not from the GUI?


Of course! Rolling out a more complex, higher resolution GUI always leads to significant performance improvements all by itself. What was I thinking?


----------



## Richierich

Hutchinshouse said:


> I anticipate being happy with the HDGUI


Pretty Soon and we won't have much to ***** about anymore with Speed and alot of HD Channels (hopefully for my wife HLN in HD) because at least we have The Travel Channel In HD!!!


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> *Pretty Soon and we won't have much to ***** about* anymore with Speed and alot of HD Channels (hopefully for my wife HLN in HD) because at least we have The Travel Channel In HD!!!


If there's no *****ing, this forum will get awful boring.

Really there are still lots of things that could be improve.

I would list 'em, but I don't want to hijack the thread.


----------



## tonyd79

Drucifer said:


> If there's no *****ing, this forum will get awful boring.
> 
> Really there are still lots of things that could be improve.
> 
> I would list 'em, but I don't want to hijack the thread.


We will just ***** about something else.

Just watch the HD anticipation thread. Now that AMC is here, we move on to the next thing.

I think it is related to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.


----------



## Richierich

Jeremy W said:


> Of course! Rolling out a more complex, higher resolution GUI always leads to significant performance improvements all by itself. What was I thinking?


You of all Posters should know that it was just Not the HD GUI but recoding code that was ineffiecient and was rushed into production along time ago and needed enhancements to be more effiecient.


----------



## BattleScott

Hoosier205 said:


> I'm not sure what you were thinking. We've been led to believe all along that the new UI would enhance the user experience in more than one way. This includes an increase in performance. The reported performance increase is directly tied to upgraded UI. Those of us who are DirecTV customers will be able to judge all of the differences for ourselves.


How will being a customer help you determine where the performance gains came from?


----------



## Drucifer

richierich said:


> You of all Posters should know that it was just Not the HD GUI but recoding code that was ineffiecient and was rushed into production along time ago and needed enhancements to be more efficient.


So you're saying they saved the recoding code for the HDGUI release instead doing it sooner, so that the HDGUI would make a better impression on the unknowing.


----------



## kevinwmsn

I don't think they should rush it out the door till its ready... The most important thing to me is the interface needs to be a lot more responsive to the remote presses than the current GUI on the hr20s, hr21, hr23. I would like to see 3 hours of programming, but I think they need to have some sort of grid display option for people with 4x3 ration, and for people with various size tvs to allow to show the current 90 min, and give options for 2 hrs and 3 hrs. I bigger series limit will be nice, but I don't see that coming till the hr34. I also bet the hr34 doesn't come out till the hdgui is ready, I just don't see it coming out with the same old GUI.


----------



## Jeremy W

richierich said:


> You of all Posters should know that it was just Not the HD GUI but recoding code that was ineffiecient and was rushed into production along time ago and needed enhancements to be more effiecient.


I do know this, the post you quoted is 100% sarcasm.


----------



## Daddy Freddy

Please forgive, new to DTV..is the new guide going to show more than 1 hour out? I can tell you...coming from Dish, they have a much better guide system, dvr management allowing accurate recordings for "new" 1st run series and customizable groupings for recorded shows..kids can put all their shows in a group, easy to find them. I am hoping the update address some of this? im happy with dtv esp bec i am saving hugeness as a new customer.


----------



## dpeters11

Daddy Freddy said:


> Please forgive, new to DTV..is the new guide going to show more than 1 hour out? I can tell you...coming from Dish, they have a much better guide system, dvr management allowing accurate recordings for "new" 1st run series and customizable groupings for recorded shows..kids can put all their shows in a group, easy to find them. I am hoping the update address some of this? im happy with dtv esp bec i am saving hugeness as a new customer.


We really don't know what the final product will look like yet, until it's released to users. Though it's possible the mods will release a First Look of the new GUI at or just before the rollout starts.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Yes, it's very possible.


----------



## mx6bfast

tonyd79 said:


> I'd be hard pressed to have over 50 series recording without running into the two tuner limit as well, which a second DVR takes care of.


Of which D* charges an extra $3 for MRV. So why put in a higher limit when the workaround is to add a more expensive feature and make customers pay for it?


----------



## tonyd79

mx6bfast said:


> Of which D* charges an extra $3 for MRV. So why put in a higher limit when the workaround is to add a more expensive feature and make customers pay for it?


Yeah, I am sure that is there motivation.


----------



## sigma1914

mx6bfast said:


> Of which D* charges an extra $3 for MRV. So why put in a higher limit when the workaround is to add a more expensive feature and make customers pay for it?


You don't have to get MRV...it's not a requirement.


----------



## Alan Gordon

sigma1914 said:


> You don't have to get MRV...it's not a requirement.


It depends on how you want to use it.

If he gets a second DVR and puts it in the same room, or watches the shows recorded on one DVR in another room, it's not a requirement.

If he wants to watch the recordings on one DVR in another room, MRV is a requirement.

~Alan


----------



## mx6bfast

tonyd79 said:


> Yeah, I am sure that is there motivation.


I will never understand the their/there/they're confusion. If that is not their motivation, then why haven't they increased it to more than 50?



sigma1914 said:


> You don't have to get MRV...it's not a requirement.


See Alan's post. Yes you could add another DVR, but then there is a good chance an extra cable run will have to be done, which would cost money, time, etc, which is probably less than paying $3 for MRV.


----------



## Jeremy W

mx6bfast said:


> If that is not their motivation, then why haven't they increased it to more than 50?


Because the current software can't handle it. Maybe the new software with the HD GUI will be able to handle it, and the limit will be increased. Who knows?


----------



## sigma1914

mx6bfast said:


> ...
> 
> See Alan's post. Yes you could add another DVR, but then there is a good chance an extra cable run will have to be done, which would cost money, time, etc, which is probably less than paying $3 for MRV.


You could get it free. It could go on the same TV, which requires a splitter if on SWM. We can play the 'could game' all day.


----------



## inkahauts

"Daddy Freddy" said:


> Please forgive, new to DTV..is the new guide going to show more than 1 hour out? I can tell you...coming from Dish, they have a much better guide system, dvr management allowing accurate recordings for "new" 1st run series and customizable groupings for recorded shows..kids can put all their shows in a group, easy to find them. I am hoping the update address some of this? im happy with dtv esp bec i am saving hugeness as a new customer.


I think we will get some kind of grouping ability at some point, but I don't expect it with the initial launch of the new gui. I expect that latter on.

I can't agree more with the number of hours out. They need two options, so people with small vs can still read it, and bigger tvs can display more info.

I do not get you are saying about first runs. I never have a problem with my unit recording a show when it is set to first run only. The only time anyone has an issue with that is when the guide data is bad, and every provider has that issue. Can you please explain what hat. Issue is exactly that you have seen?

I would love to get. My hands n a Fios, uverse, dish and DirecTV dvr after the new hd gui is released and do side by side comparisons of all of them for both speed and function, and options. I think it would be interesting.


----------



## inkahauts

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> Yes, it's very possible.


!rolling

Ah Stuart you make me laugh!


----------



## inkahauts

"mx6bfast" said:


> Of which D* charges an extra $3 for MRV. So why put in a higher limit when the workaround is to add a more expensive feature and make customers pay for it?


Well since this limit has been around since long before mrv, I doubt that has anything to do with it.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Let's go back to a discussion about HD GUI and its anticipation. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## tonyd79

mx6bfast said:


> I will never understand the their/there/they're confusion. If that is not their motivation, then why haven't they increased it to more than 50?


Got caught on stupid autocorrect. LOL!

Uh, maybe there is an actual issue with the software? Maybe it will be changed someday but not now? Maybe there was an issue in the beginning and they just don't feel the need to change it and set off another whole set of testing? Maybe there is no motivation either way?



mx6bfast said:


> See Alan's post. Yes you could add another DVR, but then there is a good chance an extra cable run will have to be done, which would cost money, time, etc, which is probably less than paying $3 for MRV.


Not sure what you mean? I have two DVRs in the same TV stand. All it took was a splitter, a RF short cable and an HDMI cable.


----------



## dishrich

Alan Gordon said:


> If he wants to watch the recordings on one DVR in another room, MRV is a requirement.


NOT really - I have 8 DVR's & watch ALL of them on all dozen+ of my TV's throughout the house...


----------



## dueport

I'm looking forward to the HD GUI and have been trying to find the link for the dbstalk first look referred to in the engadget hd article - can somebody please post the link for it? I'm looking forward to checking it out. Thanks!


----------



## SPACEMAKER

dueport said:


> I'm looking forward to the HD GUI and have been trying to find the link for the dbstalk first look referred to in the engadget hd article - can somebody please post the link for it? I'm looking forward to checking it out. Thanks!


It's not a public link.


----------



## alnielsen

dueport said:


> I'm looking forward to the HD GUI and have been trying to find the link for the dbstalk first look referred to in the engadget hd article - can somebody please post the link for it? I'm looking forward to checking it out. Thanks!





SPACEMAKER said:


> It's not a public link.


Sure it is. You can go to engadget.com and see it in the HD section.


----------



## RunnerFL

alnielsen said:


> Sure it is. You can go to engadget.com and see it in the HD section.


He meant the first look document from here that the endgaget document refers to. It is not a public link.


----------



## ncxcstud

Ooooo.... I'm waiting patiently for the HD GUI


----------



## TomK

Tom Robertson said:


> Let's go back to a discussion about HD GUI and its anticipation.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


...checking Tom's post for upcoming HD channel clues...oops, wrong thread.


----------



## dueport

I see - thank you. More questions: Who is it available to? Is there another account level that you have to have? Is there something we can do to get that account level? Why is it not public when the other first looks are? Is that because it is still in beta? I'm not trying to get something I'm not supposed to see but I don't have a lot of experience here and wanted to know if I'm missing something. I really enjoy those first looks people here do and I'm looking forward to reading it when it is available. thank you


----------



## Huskie_2009

dueport said:


> I see - thank you. More questions: Who is it available to? Is there another account level that you have to have? Is there something we can do to get that account level? Why is it not public when the other first looks are? Is that because it is still in beta? I'm not trying to get something I'm not supposed to see but I don't have a lot of experience here and wanted to know if I'm missing something. I really enjoy those first looks people here do and I'm looking forward to reading it when it is available. thank you


Go to this forum here and read the Stickied Threads near the top. It explains it all.
Best of all ... it's free and open to everyone.


----------



## dueport

Thank you for your help - I have figured it out now - don't think I would have been able to if you hadn't pointed me in the right direction - thanks!


----------



## I WANT MORE

Sweet!!!!!!!!!


----------



## crimpshrine

So are there any screen shots out of what this thing is going to look like?


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Not yet, you will just have to wait for the First Look. I don't think it will be long before this is in the National Release.


----------



## dpeters11

Nothing has been released publicly yet.


----------



## crimpshrine

Just saw a screenshot on engadget.com. Not sure if it's the real deal or not?


----------



## dpeters11

Looked plausible, though what I'd seen was only the Guide, a screen I don't use much. I'm looking forward to the whole experience.


----------



## wmb

Silly question here, but what is the likelihood that this thing will allow different themes?

I'm thinking favorite team. Maybe a TV show-based theme. In the least different color schemes would be nice. Maybe some Windows 7-esque landscape scenes. At least, an option to avoid some standard non-personal monochrome view.


----------



## dpeters11

Unlikely I'd think. At on point they sold NFL themed remotes, that would be about it.


----------



## Drucifer

wmb said:


> Silly question here, but what is the likelihood that this thing will allow different themes?
> 
> I'm thinking favorite team. Maybe a TV show-based theme. In the least different color schemes would be nice. Maybe some Windows 7-esque landscape scenes. At least, an option to avoid some standard non-personal monochrome view.


How would you load themes?


----------



## dpeters11

Best possibility would be via Internet.


----------



## Drucifer

dpeters11 said:


> Best possibility would be via Internet.


Download to your PC and then let the receiver install from the PC.


----------



## mkdtv21

I anticipate it not being as good as Xfinity Spectrum or Fios img 1.9. Sorry If I offended anyone but that's how I feel.


----------



## Justin85

mkdtv21 said:


> I anticipate it not being as good as Xfinity Spectrum or Fios img 1.9. Sorry If I offended anyone but that's how I feel.


The new FIOS GUI, I'd agree with you. I'd love to have FIOS, but its no where near me.

The "new" Comcast GUI... It will probably be nice if they do ever actually release it nationally, but their network is such a mixed bag, they are *just now* releasing their current crap gui to some areas. Their current guide was released some time around 2003. Imagine being the poor souls who are currently being "upgraded" to that fine 2003 software! It will nearly be the next decade before they get an HD GUI


----------



## dpeters11

mkdtv21 said:


> I anticipate it not being as good as Xfinity Spectrum or Fios img 1.9. Sorry If I offended anyone but that's how I feel.


I haven't seen them, so have no opinion, though I have heard good things about Fios in general, at least areas still under Verizon's control. The most usable and gorgeous UI in the world wouldn't lure me back over to cable. And as Justin says, cable is a mixed bag. That's the nice thing about services like DirecTV. When a new software release comes out, everyone gets in within a few weeks to month of each other.


----------



## tonyd79

mkdtv21 said:


> I anticipate it not being as good as Xfinity Spectrum or Fios img 1.9. Sorry If I offended anyone but that's how I feel.


From what I have seen of the two GUIs (there are many pictures out on the internet), the Fios one is way too bright and washed out. I should know in person soon as I will get it eventually.

For functionality, even with the additions Fios has made, the DirecTV GUI blows the Fios one away.


----------



## YakeVlad

Drucifer said:


> How would you load themes?


While it's a paltry number offered, D* does have TV Apps. Why not just create one that offers different themes for subs to choose from? That way it's using an existing platform and can be controlled by D*.


----------



## Drucifer

YakeVlad said:


> While it's a paltry number offered, D* does have TV Apps. Why not just create one that offers different themes for subs to choose from? That way it's using an existing platform and can be controlled by D*.


TVapps need to be restarted. You need the H/HR to be load a theme from the Internet on bootup.

I would luv to be able to store my own themes on my own site and just have the H/HR look for the file there. So no issue in slowing down a DirecTV server.


----------



## inkahauts

"YakeVlad" said:


> While it's a paltry number offered, D* does have TV Apps. Why not just create one that offers different themes for subs to choose from? That way it's using an existing platform and can be controlled by D*.


Themes will never happen. It's more likely we will see the new TiVo, and then a TiVo version of the hr34, and I will win the lotto jackpot all in the next six months.

Themes are the opposite of what Directv wants people to experience. They want consistency and uniformity, for both marketing and ease of use, and customer service reasons.


----------



## Shades228

inkahauts said:


> Themes will never happen. It's more likely we will see the new TiVo, and then a TiVo version of the hr34, and I will win the lotto jackpot all in the next six months.
> 
> Themes are the opposite of what Directv wants people to experience. They want consistency and uniformity, for both marketing and ease of use, and customer service reasons.


I could see sports themes for the UI but not for awhile down the road. You're correct they want the same experience but that's more with menu's and familiarity of where things are at. With that said I don't think they would do it but I could see it working with sports themes.


----------



## Drucifer

inkahauts said:


> *Themes will never happen.* It's more likely we will see the new TiVo, and then a TiVo version of the hr34, and I will win the lotto jackpot all in the next six months.
> 
> Themes are the opposite of what Directv wants people to experience. *They want consistency and uniformity*, for both marketing and ease of use, and customer service reasons.


 DirecTV wants money first. They'll do or allow themes if there's any money in it for them. So marketing a sports package with a sports theme is a long way from _will never happen_.


----------



## chapel

inkahauts said:


> You are going to want a hr34. Solves all your problems.


I'm also looking at the THR22, simply because I love the TiVo interface of my old DirecTiVo (I'm not spoiled by the newer ones)



sigma1914 said:


> You can have more than 1 DVR on a TV. It's not an excuse to the 50 limit, but it's a very doable workaround.


meh... my media tower is already packed...



RACJ2 said:


> Personally, 50 is plenty of series recordings for me, but I can see where it is an issue for you. When do you actually have time to watch 50 plus shows a week that you record just for yourself? And with 1 TV, how can the rest of your family ever get a chance to watch what they recorded?


50 series in a year for 3 people is not that many
Just rattling off the shows that are currently on this current active season (primetime only):
Sunday
Simpsons
Family Guy
Boardwalk Empire
Dexter
Hung
Breaking Bad
Pan Am

Monday
Dancing with the Stars
Top Gear
Bored to Death
Enlightened

Tuesday
Parenthood
Sons of Anarchy

Wednesday
New Girl
Up All Night
L&O SVU
South Park

Thursday
Community
Parks and Recreation
The Office
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
The League

Friday
Kitchen Nightmares
Fringe

Saturday Night Live

So that's just this current Fall 2011 Season, with primetime only, and I'm at 25 shows.

Take into account the shows my wife records for my kid (2-3 shows) and for herself... and then take into account the winter season and the summer season

With just the primetime HBO and SHO shows:
Weeds
Chuck
The Big C
Man vs Food
Episodes
Nurse Jackie
Shameless
The Borgias
Game of Thrones
Eastbound and Down
True Blood
Curb your Enthusiasm

that's 36 total shows that are always on my DVR...

As for time to watch: We generally watch TV after dinner until about 10 (so about 2 hours)
On Fridays and Saturdays we will try to catch up on shows until about midnight.

We tend to only watch a few stations (HBO, SHO, NBC, FOX, FX...) I know people that watch EVERYTHING... ABC, CBS... the lot... We'd love to fit Modern Family in there and some more stuff on AMC and BBC and the like... but there's no room on the DVR for it...

I guess it's not a bad thing... we do watch less TV (if you can believe that after reading that list of shows.)
Luckily, we don't really like Reality TV shows.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

This is a discussion about the HD GUI and NOT DVRs and SL limits. 

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## Brian Hanasky

Any ideas when the new GUI is coming?


----------



## Athlon646464

Brian Hanasky said:


> Any ideas when the new GUI is coming?


"Soon"

There is no official announcement on a date for release.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Brian Hanasky said:


> Any ideas when the new GUI is coming?


One other thing to remember is how the rollout will occur. With major upgrades such as this, DIRECTV typically rolls out the upgrade in regions. It could take a few months for everyone to get the upgrade.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RobertE

Tom Robertson said:


> One other thing to remember is how the rollout will occur. With major upgrades such as this, DIRECTV typically rolls out the upgrade in regions. It could take a few months for everyone to get the upgrade.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Agreed. As with anything else, the timeline is subject to change, but my people are telling me that the roll out target is set for very early Nov. Along with that, it's anticipated that this will be one of the slowest NR rollouts in a very long time.

Everyone will need to be very, very patient during the roll out.


----------



## RAD

RobertE said:


> Everyone will need to be very, very patient during the roll out.


Sounds like a good plan since I'd except a larger the normal amount of folks calling in for assistance since this is a fairly major change to the UI.


----------



## Athlon646464

We should start a pool......

How many will ask 'How do I force....'

The closest wins a nomad.

My guess: 1,035

:grin:


----------



## RobertE

RAD said:


> Sounds like a good plan since I'd except a larger the normal amount of folks calling in for assistance since this is a fairly major change to the UI.


Pretty much spot on. With the level on changes going on, this is going to be an extremely slow roll out to prevent the call centers from getting hammered from confused customers.

My hope is that they change the methodology of this rollout vs prior ones. I would really like to see targeted households vs a west to east (or east to west) like prior ones. To me it would be much simpler to hit all the boxes in X number of random houses each night/week.

I would recommend to anyone that may be looking to do an upgrade, schedule a service call or change programming, do it before the 1st if possible. If not, try and call during off hours. Its going to be busy.


----------



## Jasqid

I bet they will send a receiver message about the update coming. Most of that is usually SPAM for package and sports deals.... but this would be a good use so the average customer at least has a heads up.

Can you imagine Mrs. "Average" Jane Smith waking up in the morning and everything is different. lol.


----------



## Athlon646464

Jasqid said:


> I bet they will send a receiver message about the update coming. Most of that is usually SPAM for package and sports deals.... but this would be a good use so the average customer at least has a heads up.
> 
> Can you imagine Mrs. "Average" Jane Smith waking up in the morning and everything is different. lol.


Yup - it will freak out those who do not like 'change'. Some will call and demand the 'old look' back.

Should be fun to watch what happens and see exactly how they handle it.


----------



## mreposter

RobertE said:


> Everyone will need to be very, very patient during the roll out.


Good luck with that. 

I just hope this isn't like waking up one morning to discover that Microsoft has "upgraded" my PC to Windows Vista...


----------



## LameLefty

mreposter said:


> I just hope this isn't like waking up one morning to discover that Microsoft has "upgraded" my PC to Windows Vista...


It won't be.


----------



## Malibu13

At this point we can only speculate what changes have been made and how much of an improvement the new GUI will bring.


----------



## billsharpe

The Dish HD guide shows three hours of programming; the FiOS TV guide shows 2 1/2 hours of programming.

Both of these blow away the current DirecTV guide.


----------



## bobnielsen

mreposter said:


> I just hope this isn't like waking up one morning to discover that Microsoft has "upgraded" my PC to Windows Vista...





LameLefty said:


> It won't be.


For one thing, they won't charge $100 for the upgrade :hurah:


----------



## wmb

bobnielsen said:


> For one thing, they won't charge $100 for the upgrade :hurah:


no, but they will charge over $100 per month to USE it!!!:eek2:


----------



## Skyboss

Tom Robertson said:


> It could take a few months for everyone to get the upgrade.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


If I am in the last region, that will be major suxors.



inkahauts said:


> Themes will never happen. It's more likely we will see the new TiVo, and then a TiVo version of the hr34, and I will win the lotto jackpot all in the next six months.
> 
> Themes are the opposite of what Directv wants people to experience. They want consistency and uniformity, for both marketing and ease of use, and customer service reasons.


Color choices wouldn't be too difficult. The receivers used to have that at least.


----------



## LameLefty

wmb said:


> no, but they will charge over $100 per month to USE it!!!:eek2:


Well, that quite depends on your programming package and number of receivers, doesn't it?

That being said, I am going to go out on a limb with the following: a lot of folks will like it (for a number of reasons), a good number will dislike it for one reason or another, and some will hate it (there are always some who can't or won't be pleased).

In other words, the more things change, the more they stay the same.


----------



## wingrider01

wmb said:


> no, but they will charge over $100 per month to USE it!!!:eek2:


really? they charge you over a 100.00 to bring up the guide?:grin:


----------



## rrdirectsr

Athlon646464 said:


> Yup - it will freak out those who do not like 'change'. Some will call and demand the 'old look' back.
> 
> Should be fun to watch what happens and see exactly how they handle it.


I had a couple people call in when they added the quick tabs to the show banner demanding I change it back. Some people hate change.


----------



## Xsabresx

rrdirectsr said:


> I had a couple people call in when they added the quick tabs to the show banner demanding I change it back. Some people hate change.


Well that changed sucked, IMO, but I am looking forward to the new guide.


----------



## Athlon646464

rrdirectsr said:


> I had a couple people call in when they added the quick tabs to the show banner demanding I change it back. Some people hate change.


That's funny.

Please give us some of your stories when this thing breaks!


----------



## kikkenit2

Probably too late but I have 2 requests pertaining to new hd gui. Please unhide 30SKIP so it will be supported and fixed. The competition has had this for years. And when stopping recordings please remove "Stop & Delete" from right next to "Stop & Keep". So many times remote scrolls too fast and bam accidentally deleted program. Or a recoverable recycle bin maybe. I called directv and got nowhere. Thanks


----------



## rrdirectsr

Athlon646464 said:


> That's funny.
> 
> Please give us some of your stories when this thing breaks!


It should be interesting. I love the new UI. I have it on one of my HR24s and it works great and my mom had no problems figuring it out and she is not a techy person. I just hope others adapt the same way.


----------



## sigma1914

kikkenit2 said:


> Probably too late but I have 2 requests pertaining to new hd gui. Please unhide 30SKIP so it will be supported and fixed. The competition has had this for years. ...


Who has 30skip without having to use a "code" or trick? Navigator (on a lot of TWC boxes) doesn't even have 30skip at all.


----------



## Laxguy

kikkenit2 said:


> Probably too late but I have 2 requests pertaining to new hd gui. Please unhide 30SKIP so it will be supported and fixed. The competition has had this for years. And when stopping recordings please remove "Stop & Delete" from right next to "Stop & Keep". So many times remote scrolls too fast and bam accidentally deleted program. Or a recoverable recycle bin maybe. I called directv and got nowhere. Thanks


On what receiver and software version will 30SKIP not work? You should be able to toggle it by redoing the keyword search by that name.


----------



## kikkenit2

sigma1914 said:


> Who has 30skip without having to use a "code" or trick? Navigator (on a lot of TWC boxes) doesn't even have 30skip at all.


It is my understanding that dish has had it as the default mode (vs slip) for over 5 years. I have been using it hidden with directv since before the hr20 came out. The hr10 had it. Again over 5 years correct? I don't consider any cable company as direct competition for directv. They require public cable runs and have internet service. Directv has every right to "hide" 30skip from most people. That doesn't make it a magical, non-supportable "beta" software as they like to call it. Most d* employees and customers don't even know it exists. Once I expose it to people they love it. I figure d* is getting paid to hide this fantastic feature.


----------



## sigma1914

kikkenit2 said:


> It is my understanding that dish has had it as the default mode (vs slip) for over 5 years. I have been using it hidden with directv since before the hr20 came out. The hr10 had it. Again over 5 years correct? I don't consider any cable company as direct competition for directv. They require public cable runs and have internet service. Directv has every right to "hide" 30skip from most people. That doesn't make it a magical, non-supportable "beta" software as they like to call it. Most d* employees and customers don't even know it exists. Once I expose it to people they love it. I figure d* is getting paid to hide this fantastic feature.


So Dish is DirecTV's only competition and they have 30skip? Hmm...ooook.


----------



## dpeters11

Laxguy said:


> On what receiver and software version will 30SKIP not work? You should be able to toggle it by redoing the keyword search by that name.


There seems to be a bug where it doesn't always work.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=196932&page=2


----------



## kikkenit2

Laxguy said:


> On what receiver and software version will 30SKIP not work? You should be able to toggle it by redoing the keyword search by that name.


I have 6 hr20 and 1 hr22. It is an intermittent and unintentional bug sent to all my boxes inside national download 0x4d9 on 9-13. It only happens on certain channels and certain commercials. It is not bad enough that I will quit using skip. It has been there for 1 month.

Directv is working so hard on this new gui they just blew me off and told me to shut up about 30skip. That was after I called tech support and spoke the not allowed word. Nobody there had even heard of it! Except the engineer that called me back. He refused to discuss it and accused me of running cutting edge software. He did not like that I read/post here. It just seems insane they would hide this function from so many. And then refuse to support it? Oh well just give me the recycle bin so i don't accidentally erase something I just recorded. They put "delete" in too many places.


----------



## Athlon646464

kikkenit2 said:


> Oh well just give me the recycle bin so i don't accidentally erase something I just recorded. They put "delete" in too many places.


I would like the recycle bin too, but doesn't your DVR ask for confirmation before deleting?


----------



## kikkenit2

Athlon646464 said:


> I would like the recycle bin too, but doesn't your DVR ask for confirmation before deleting?


Not really. Once the keep & delete is selected the OK screen comes up. It requires another push of the select button but it is too late. You can't go back. the program is already erased. So that "OK" confirmation screen is a wasted effort. Some remotes are slow and some are fast. Sometimes when I scroll down 1 place to "stop & keep" the remote hops 1 more spot to "stop & delete". I hit enter before I realized it scrolled too far and bam too late the show is gone. That ok screen is the ultimate teaser.

When I select List and select a recorded program the following menu comes up. Resume or Start Over or Keep or Delete or Recording or Record Series or View Upcoming or Done. If I want to delete I'll select it here. But I don't want to delete so I select Recording. And there is delete again! Just get rid of that option directly below keep. Especially with no way to recover. I watch mostly live sports that are not rebroadcast. I pad all these games long and stop recording when done if I'm watching tv. I keep accidentally erasing shows I want to keep. Try backing out from "OK" screen. I can't do it.


----------



## Laxguy

Not a fix for what you describe, but a solution: just get in the habit of deleting within the show. I.e., hit Info, then scroll to delete. That's saved me deleting the wrong show more than once.


----------



## tonyd79

kikkenit2 said:


> Not really. Once the keep & delete is selected the OK screen comes up. It requires another push of the select button but it is too late. You can't go back. the program is already erased. So that "OK" confirmation screen is a wasted effort. Some remotes are slow and some are fast. Sometimes when I scroll down 1 place to "stop & keep" the remote hops 1 more spot to "stop & delete". I hit enter before I realized it scrolled too far and bam too late the show is gone. That ok screen is the ultimate teaser.
> 
> When I select List and select a recorded program the following menu comes up. Resume or Start Over or Keep or Delete or Recording or Record Series or View Upcoming or Done. If I want to delete I'll select it here. But I don't want to delete so I select Recording. And there is delete again! Just get rid of that option directly below keep. Especially with no way to recover. I watch mostly live sports that are not rebroadcast. I pad all these games long and stop recording when done if I'm watching tv. I keep accidentally erasing shows I want to keep. Try backing out from "OK" screen. I can't do it.


If you want to delete from the list, use the red button. That gives you an option to back out.

Besides that, Keep is pretty much a waste of time other than to mark a K next to the program.


----------



## I WANT MORE

I wish they would do away with the damn auto correct on Pause/Play. When I pause and hit play again I don't want to jump back 5 clicks. I want it to start from where I paused. 
That's about all I have to say about that.


----------



## Richierich

Athlon646464 said:


> I would like the recycle bin too, but doesn't your DVR ask for confirmation before deleting?


Yes, Please Give Us The Recycle Bin!!!

How hard would that be for you guys at Directv as everyone else has it!!!


----------



## sigma1914

I WANT MORE said:


> I wish they would do away with the damn auto correct on Pause/Play. When I pause and hit play again I don't want to jump back 5 clicks. I want it to start from where I paused.
> That's about all I have to say about that.


Press pause.


----------



## I WANT MORE

sigma1914 said:


> Press pause.


Hello?


----------



## LameLefty

richierich said:


> Yes, Please Give Us The Recycle Bin!!!
> 
> How hard would that be for you guys at Directv as everyone else has it!!!


There will be no recycle bin in the new GUI.


----------



## redsoxfan26

I WANT MORE said:


> Hello?


Pressing pause a second time restarts play without any skip backward.


----------



## LameLefty

I WANT MORE said:


> Hello?


I think he may be suggesting that you press Pause a second time to restart playback, rather than Play.

Tho' nothing I watch has much of an issue with auto-correct as you seem to find, and in any case, auto-correct has nothing to do with the new GUI.


----------



## kikkenit2

Laxguy said:


> Not a fix for what you describe, but a solution: just get in the habit of deleting within the show. I.e., hit Info, then scroll to delete. That's saved me deleting the wrong show more than once.


I am not having trouble deleting programs. Yes I use the red button. I am having trouble with "Stop & Keep". The dvr doesn't want to stay on stop & keep. It just keeps scrolling to "stop & delete" without me realizing it. As soon as you push select there is no recovery. I have to hover over "stop & keep" for 1 or 2 seconds to make sure it didn't scroll too far! Sometimes I forget to hit the buttons super slowly. And yes I use rf mode so sometimes it responds fast and sometimes slow. Agaig remove the option to delete from the area where you select "Recording". Let's try this. How many ways can I stop a recording and keep it?


----------



## I WANT MORE

redsoxfan26 said:


> Pressing pause a second time restarts play without any skip backward.


This is incorrect. Try it. Press Pause. Press Play. It jumps back several clicks. This is a known issue. Well, issue for some.


----------



## redsoxfan26

I WANT MORE said:


> This is incorrect. Try it. Press Pause. Press Play. It jumps back several clicks. This is a known issue. Well, issue for some.


Not for me...

Anyway :backtotop


----------



## I WANT MORE

LameLefty said:


> I think he may be suggesting that you press Pause a second time to restart playback, rather than Play.
> 
> Tho' nothing I watch has much of an issue with auto-correct as you seem to find, and in any case, *auto-correct has nothing to do with the new GUI*.


That is true, however it could be corrected with a software update.


----------



## redsoxfan26

I WANT MORE said:


> This is incorrect. Try it. Press Pause. Press *Play*. It jumps back several clicks. This is a known issue. Well, issue for some.


Last word on this -
I bolded where your problem is. Don't press *Play* after pausing. Press *Pause* a second time.


----------



## kikkenit2

sigma1914 said:


> So Dish is DirecTV's only competition and they have 30skip? Hmm...ooook.


I have a hard time comparing cable tv to satellite dish service. Not even close and you probably agree. I stand firm that both companies have had 30skip for a long time. They will fix it, but I prefer that they quit hiding it.


----------



## I WANT MORE

redsoxfan26 said:


> Last word on this -
> I bolded where your problem is. Don't press *Play* after pausing. Press *Pause* a second time.


Does not matter. Pressing Pause again does the same thing. I will drop it. It was discussed here. I'm sure others know what I am referring to. The TIVO does not do this. It does it correctly. 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=187585&highlight=pause+jump+back
Now back to discussing the new GUI.


----------



## sigma1914

I WANT MORE said:


> Does not matter. Pressing Pause again does the same thing. I will drop it. It was discussed here. I'm sure others know what I am referring to. The TIVO does not do this. It does it correctly.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=187585&highlight=pause+jump+back
> Now back to discussing the new GUI.


I just realized when it does it...if you're close to live, it'll skip back. If it's a recording or further back in the buffer, then no skip.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

redsoxfan26 said:


> Not for me...
> 
> Anyway :backtotop





redsoxfan26 said:


> Last word on this -
> I bolded where your problem is. Don't press *Play* after pausing. Press *Pause* a second time.


Now that's funny, get back to the topic... um... unless I want to continue off topic.

Now that I got my bit of humor in. :backtotop


----------



## dorfd1

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/hd_guide?footernavtype=-1&lpos=header

I think it is coming soon since directv has a webpage about the new gui


----------



## RobertE

dorfd1 said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/hd_guide?footernavtype=-1&lpos=header
> 
> I think it is coming soon since directv has a webpage about the new gui


A couple more weeks before the rollout begins.


----------



## Mike_TV

This looks good. I think it blows away the GUI on the Comcast DVRs.


----------



## Beerstalker

I think a lot of it looks real nice, but not the most important part. To me the most important part is the guide. That is where I spend most of my time when I have anything pulled up (I spend a lot of time in the DVR List too, but I didn't see in the video if that's changed much). The fact they are going through all this and still have us stuck at 6 channels and only 1.5hrs is rediculous. There is no real reason why the text can't be shrunk down some so more channels and more time can be fit onscreen. I think they should have at least 2 if not 3 hours of programming shown. Their competitors can do it why can't they?

Also the grey writing on black background isn't the easiers to read either.


----------



## Laxguy

Don't disagree with those points, Mr. Beers, but for serious guide work, I am likely to use the iPad app, or the DIRECTV® web site, or Titantv.com. 

Putting more in, smaller fonts, etc. is likely to raise a chorus of "It's too small!"

A choice would be nice. Skins n such.


----------



## Beerstalker

Laxguy said:


> Putting more in, smaller fonts, etc. is likely to raise a chorus of "It's too small!"
> 
> A choice would be nice. Skins n such.


All the other text on the page is smaller. The text for the description, the text down at the bottom next to the color buttons (+/-12 hours, and Guide Options). Changing all the text to that size should be fine.


----------



## LameLefty

The improved speed [strike]makes[/strike] will make such complaints less relevant. When you can move around that Guide faster than your mind can process it, the 1.5 hours and 6 channels isn't as big of a deal.


----------



## Athlon646464

LameLefty said:


> The improved speed [strike]makes[/strike] will make such complaints less relevant. When you can move around that Guide faster than your mind can process it, the 1.5 hours and 6 channels isn't as big of a deal.


+1


----------



## Groundhog45

New info from DirecTV: HD On Screen Guide

I don't think this has been posted yet.

Edit: Guess I didn't look back far enough.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

"Groundhog45" said:


> New info from DirecTV: HD On Screen Guide
> 
> I don't think this has been posted yet.


It was posted above.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

"Beerstalker" said:


> Also the grey writing on black background isn't the easiers to read either.


That is just simply wrong. It could not be any easier to read. Trust me.


----------



## mkdtv21

I have the R22 which I know will receive the new guide but my question is will I be able to receive it since I don't have hd access on my account. It is hooked up to a 1080p tv and can play hd on demand but maybe they won't activate the new guide with out hd access. Can anyone say different?


----------



## Lord Vader

I'm pretty sure the HD GUI is independent of what programming--HD or SD--to which you're subscribed.


----------



## Mike_TV

Lord Vader said:


> I'm pretty sure the HD GUI is independent of what programming--HD or SD--to which you're subscribed.


No. It's dependent on the hardware you have. SD hardware won't have an HD GUI.


----------



## Rockermann

Loving the preview of this... I'm excited to see it roll out. It will be a NICE improvement. I hope it is two weeks or less as mentioned above.


----------



## Athlon646464

Rockermann said:


> Loving the preview of this... I'm excited to see it roll out. It will be a NICE improvement. I hope it is two weeks or less as mentioned above.


If it starts in two weeks, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone will get it in two weeks. This firmware update may take longer to roll out to everyone than any other firmware update they have ever done.

It could conceivably take a couple of months. Patience will be needed by all.

Reason? They will be inundated with calls........ They will roll this sucker out s l o w l y.


----------



## Rockermann

Athlon646464 said:


> ...It could conceivably take a couple of months. Patience will be needed by all. Reason? They will be inundated with calls........ They will roll this sucker out s l o w l y.


Very true and understandable. I just wanna know how to be first in line. :lol:


----------



## RunnerFL

Mike_TV said:


> No. It's dependent on the hardware you have. SD hardware won't have an HD GUI.


While the R22 may be "SD" it is capable of HD and is actually an HR21.


----------



## dpeters11

Mike_TV said:


> No. It's dependent on the hardware you have. SD hardware won't have an HD GUI.


But the R22 has pretty much the same software as the HR units. Of course not all HD equipment will get the new GUI either, the H20 is out.


----------



## WestDC

dpeters11 said:


> But the R22 has pretty much the same software as the HR units. Of course not all HD equipment will get the new GUI either, the H20 is out.


I'm Glad it is (left out) as I use my H20 for feeding all my SD TV"S & PIP on my HD sets  and with the RF attena attached I can change channels from my out building 100' away.

Works great don't mess with it (PLEASE):lol:


----------



## dpeters11

WestDC said:


> I'm Glad it is (left out) as I use my H20 for feeding all my SD TV"S & PIP on my HD sets  and with the RF attena attached I can change channels from my out building 100' away.
> 
> Works great don't mess with it (PLEASE):lol:


I don't think you'll see many (or any changes) on that model from now on. The last "big" update, which still was just various improvements was over 2 years ago. Nothing at all for about a year.


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## bobcamp1

LameLefty said:


> The improved speed [strike]makes[/strike] will make such complaints less relevant. When you can move around that Guide faster than your mind can process it, the 1.5 hours and 6 channels isn't as big of a deal.


B.S. I shouldn't have to push any buttons to find out what's on two hours from now. Besides, all their competitors can do it and no one complains it's too small. If you really want to make it simple, the DVR knows if the display is configured as 4:3 or 16:9. They can adjust the guide accordingly. Or make it independently user configurable.

I agree that six channels is probably close to the limit -- maybe they can squeeze in one more.

Other than that, it looks nice and looks like they have caught up to their competitors.


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## sigma1914

bobcamp1 said:


> B.S. I shouldn't have to push any buttons to find out what's on two hours from now. Besides, all their competitors can do it and no one complains it's too small...


All their competitors huh? Time Warner Navigator and I-Guide (which other providers use, too) doesn't...they have the same amount of time. Uverse only has an extra 30 minutes.


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## alnielsen

Athlon646464 said:


> If it starts in two weeks, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone will get it in two weeks. This firmware update may take longer to roll out to everyone than any other firmware update they have ever done.
> 
> It could conceivably take a couple of months. Patience will be needed by all.
> 
> Reason? They will be inundated with calls........ They will roll this sucker out s l o w l y.


I was involved in a D* poll about the HD GUI. The dates used in the poll questions were for early to mid Nov.
The firmware is being tested presently. It shouldn't be buggy.


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## inkahauts

"LameLefty" said:


> The improved speed makes will make such complaints less relevant. When you can move around that Guide faster than your mind can process it, the 1.5 hours and 6 channels isn't as big of a deal.


With all do respect, increase speed will never alleviate my desire to see all of primetime, three hours, on one screen.


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## inkahauts

"dpeters11" said:


> But the R22 has pretty much the same software as the HR units. Of course not all HD equipment will get the new GUI either, the H20 is out.


I'd bet the best way to explain what will get the new GUI is that if the hardware is able to do mrv, it will get the new GUI. I can't think of an instance where that isn't correct, can you?


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## RACJ2

dorfd1 said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/hd_guide?footernavtype=-1&lpos=header
> 
> I think it is coming soon since directv has a webpage about the new gui


I hope its as fast as it looks on the clip they show. My HR's have been crawling lately and its getting annoying.


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## TBoneit

Just remember I'm typing this on a computer where the screen is set to no wallpaper and the color is black with white text for high contrast. I just looked at the DirecTV page showing the new HD GUI and not impressed. Gray text on black?

For me 1.5 hour guide is a killer. When I want to look at the whole evening and I can't see my complete locals prime time 3 hour in one screen I'm bummed. To be honest I'd like to see what I believe no provider supplies, a 4 Hour guide.

I of course want my major locals in which I include the 4 networks, old time independents and Three PBS stations, 8 Stations in all. Once again no one that I know of. Keeping a P.I.G. and description of highlighted channel of course.


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## TBoneit

LameLefty said:


> The improved speed [strike]makes[/strike] will make such complaints less relevant. When you can move around that Guide faster than your mind can process it, the 1.5 hours and 6 channels isn't as big of a deal.





RACJ2 said:


> I hope its as fast as it looks on the clip they show. My HR's have been crawling lately and its getting annoying.


I hadn't even noticed the clip until you mentioned it as I usually run with NoScript and no scripting.

All those graphics would be wasted on me. In my media player one of the first things I did set it to only show text when I browsed through the video section. No thumbnails, no movie covers. I guess I'm just a plain and simple is better type of guy.

I did notice where it looked to like they had implemented something along the lines of the Tivo search and suggestions. Suggestions were the first thing I turned off on my Tivo followed by sounds.


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## Lord Vader

Mike_TV said:


> No. It's dependent on the hardware you have. SD hardware won't have an HD GUI.


That's obvious. What I was trying to say was it's independent of what _programming _he has--SD, HD, or both.


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## dpeters11

inkahauts said:


> I'd bet the best way to explain what will get the new GUI is that if the hardware is able to do mrv, it will get the new GUI. I can't think of an instance where that isn't correct, can you?


No, that would be the best way.

One thing I can't remember, but regarding replacements. We know DirecTV doesn't guarantee a particular box, but in a non MRV environment, is it possible to get an H20 as a replacement for a bad H21-24? That may not be all that popular with the GUI difference.


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## Stuart Sweet

H20s are not going back into the field. As far as I know, service techs are instructed to remove them when they see them.


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## Poochie

Will the Guide be available on the HR20? The DirecTV page states that hardware HR20 or later is required, though not all models are compatible. If HR20 is not compatible, why is it mentioned on their page?


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## balboadave

TBoneit said:


> Just remember I'm typing this on a computer where the screen is set to no wallpaper and the color is black with white text for high contrast. I just looked at the DirecTV page showing the new HD GUI and not impressed. Gray text on black?
> 
> *For me 1.5 hour guide is a killer*. When I want to look at the whole evening and I can't see my complete locals prime time 3 hour in one screen I'm bummed. To be honest I'd like to see what I believe no provider supplies, a 4 Hour guide.
> 
> I of course want my major locals in which I include the 4 networks, old time independents and Three PBS stations, 8 Stations in all. Once again no one that I know of. Keeping a P.I.G. and description of highlighted channel of course.


How can that be "a killer" if it's what you have now with the SD interface? The new HD interface is not likely to have very many new features at all. It will have a new look (HD of course, and some organizational changes) and feel (in that it's faster), but new features and functionality aren't likely to be added until the public release has proven to be stable, and that will take many weeks, if not months, and that's if at all. We're going to be lucky if we don't lose existing features. And by stable, I mean both the software _and_ the public opinion.


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## redsoxfan26

"Poochie" said:


> Will the Guide be available on the HR20? The DirecTV page states that hardware HR20 or later is required, though not all models are compatible. If HR20 is not compatible, why is it mentioned on their page?


The HR20 is compatible.


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## ThomasM

TBoneit said:


> For me 1.5 hour guide is a killer. When I want to look at the whole evening and I can't see my complete locals prime time 3 hour in one screen I'm bummed. To be honest I'd like to see what I believe no provider supplies, a 4 Hour guide.


Want to see 3 hours of prime time all at once? Do what I do-SUBSCRIBE TO TVGUIDE MAGAZINE!!! Only 29 cents an issue if you order it on the website.

(And no, I don't sell magazine subscriptions)


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## Lord Vader

Why not just save money and press one key to advance/scroll to the right to see the next hour or two?


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## sigma1914

Lord Vader said:


> Why not just save money and press one key to advance/scroll to the right to see the next hour or two?


That's too easy, LV!


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## Herdfan

Beerstalker said:


> Also the grey writing on black background isn't the easiers to read either.





SPACEMAKER said:


> That is just simply wrong. It could not be any easier to read. Trust me.


Actually, shows or folders with shows that have already been watched have a light gray writing that is hard to read against the black background. The non-watched shows are fine and very easy to see.


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## Dlarryj

I have an HR20 but only a 720p TV. Is the new guide roll-out smart enough to know my situation? Or will the new guide ACTUALLY work somehow on a 720p TV even though all the descriptions call for a 1080p TV?


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## tonyd79

"Dlarryj" said:


> I have an HR20 but only a 720p TV. Is the new guide roll-out smart enough to know my situation? Or will the new guide ACTUALLY work somehow on a 720p TV even though all the descriptions call for a 1080p TV?


It will handle 720p just fine.


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## mashandhogan

the R22 (I Know with HD access) WILL have the HDGUI.


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## Tom Robertson

SPACEMAKER said:


> That is just simply wrong. It could not be any easier to read. Trust me.


Sarcasm?

White on blue is the most legible for emitted light.

gray on black is just stupid. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## mkdtv21

mashandhogan said:


> the R22 (I Know with HD access) WILL have the HDGUI.


But can anyone confirm it will have it without HD access?


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## dpeters11

"Poochie" said:


> Will the Guide be available on the HR20? The DirecTV page states that hardware HR20 or later is required, though not all models are compatible. If HR20 is not compatible, why is it mentioned on their page?


HR20 is fine, H20 is not.


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## Lord Vader

mkdtv21 said:


> But can anyone confirm it will have it without HD access?


Yes. That's irrelevant.


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## Tom Robertson

mkdtv21 said:


> But can anyone confirm it will have it without HD access?


An R22 without HD access will get the same HDGUI that anyone who sets their HR2x to 480p resolution. Same GUI but using lower resolution icons.

Cheers,
Tom


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## mkdtv21

Tom Robertson said:


> An R22 without HD access will get the same HDGUI that anyone who sets their HR2x to 480p resolution. Same GUI but using lower resolution icons.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Sorry to annoy everyone but what if I set my R22's output to 1080p, will I then get the full hd guide resolution. Even though I don't have HD access I still have it hooked up to a 1080p tv. I'm just all confused by this.


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## Laxguy

mkdtv21 said:


> Sorry to annoy everyone but what if I set my R22's output to 1080p, will I then get the full hd guide resolution. Even though I don't have HD access I still have it hooked up to a 1080p tv. I'm just all confused by this.


You will probably see an SD version that is scaled up to the size of the screen.


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## RunnerFL

mkdtv21 said:


> Sorry to annoy everyone but what if I set my R22's output to 1080p, will I then get the full hd guide resolution. Even though I don't have HD access I still have it hooked up to a 1080p tv. I'm just all confused by this.


If your TV supports 1080p you'll get it at 1080p. If your TV however is only SD then you won't see it at 1080p/1080i/720p, you'll see it at 480i.

As has been mentioned before having HD access on your account has nothing to do with you getting the new HDGUI or not. You'll get it if you have an HR2X series DVR and the R22 is an HR21.


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## Tom Robertson

mkdtv21 said:


> Sorry to annoy everyone but what if I set my R22's output to 1080p, will I then get the full hd guide resolution. Even though I don't have HD access I still have it hooked up to a 1080p tv. I'm just all confused by this.


If your R22 has been activated to do HD at some point, and still can, yes, you will get the 1080i version of the GUI.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Drucifer

dorfd1 said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/hd_guide?footernavtype=-1&lpos=header
> 
> I think it is coming soon since directv has a webpage about the new gui


I'm intrigued by this image . . . .








_AutoTune_ for the HR's?


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## ejbvt

Two minor things that bother me about MOST guides (the current and new HD guide included):

Why do they have "cluttered" names for the channels. I like the way Dish labels the HD channels with the ghosted "HD" kinda behind it. HBOeHD is too long for example and redundant since each show is labeled with the HD icon. It doesn't matter if a channel is HD or not if the show isn't so why write "HD" in the channel name section. HBOe is fine with me.

I like logos with the channel name. I think it's some sort of mental thing where the colors help distinguish the channels; I have seen some Dish guides with that feature. The Dish guide is cool, but they show too much at once for me. I see some of you like having the entire PT schedule on there at once, but I like the current 1.5 hours (2 would be better, maybe). Too bad they couldn't make that a customize-able feature. 

I like the look of the new guide, though. Does anyone know if the AM21 channels will now match the others since they're black already?


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## litzdog911

Drucifer said:


> I'm intrigued by this image . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _AutoTune_ for the HR's?


That's probably a Receiver, not a DVR.


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## BattleScott

litzdog911 said:


> That's probably a Receiver, not a DVR.


There's a "Recordings" menu as well though. I would guess it's just a PC based image mock-up.


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## JoeTheDragon

BattleScott said:


> There's a "Recordings" menu as well though. I would guess it's just a PC based image mock-up.


Recordings may for MRV


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## RunnerFL

Drucifer said:


> _AutoTune_ for the HR's?


I seriously doubt it. Someone just got a little overzealous with photoshop when they were making the mock up.


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## dettxw

dorfd1 said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/technology/hd_guide?footernavtype=-1&lpos=header
> 
> I think it is coming soon since directv has a webpage about the new gui


Wondering if we will have a First Look since DirecTV already has their page up.

I was amused that their emphasis is on PPV, it's on almost every graphic on the DirecTV HD gui page. I never think about PPV at all since I can never watch a movie within their 24-hour limit, though of course I understand that they want to sell viewings. Seems to me that they'd sell more without the silly limit.


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## peds48

mkdtv21 said:


> Sorry to annoy everyone but what if I set my R22's output to 1080p, will I then get the full hd guide resolution. Even though I don't have HD access I still have it hooked up to a 1080p tv. I'm just all confused by this.


an R22 that is being used as an SD DVR, (with no HD access) would have the HDTV options greyed out (inaccessible). thus the 720p and 1080i options would not be available. the receiver will output at most at 480p.


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## rta53

dettxw said:


> Wondering if we will have a First Look since DirecTV already has their page up.
> 
> I was amused that their emphasis is on PPV, it's on almost every graphic on the DirecTV HD gui page. I never think about PPV at all since I can never watch a movie within their 24-hour limit, though of course I understand that they want to sell viewings. Seems to me that they'd sell more without the silly limit.


You beat me to the punch. I noticed the same thing. I couldn't care less about PPV. I'm already paying them enough. Why would I pay for 1 movie when for just a little more than this cost I can get streaming from Netflix for an entire month.


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## sigma1914

dettxw said:


> Wondering if we will have a First Look since DirecTV already has their page up.
> 
> I was amused that their emphasis is on PPV, it's on almost every graphic on the DirecTV HD gui page. I never think about PPV at all since I can never watch a movie within their 24-hour limit, though of course I understand that they want to sell viewings. Seems to me that they'd sell more without the silly limit.


I believe it's a legal thing. DirecTV can't really use everyday/normal shows in the ads without the rights to the shows. Since they can advertise PPV movies, it's easier/cheaper to use.


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## RunnerFL

dettxw said:


> Wondering if we will have a First Look since DirecTV already has their page up.
> 
> I was amused that their emphasis is on PPV, it's on almost every graphic on the DirecTV HD gui page. I never think about PPV at all since I can never watch a movie within their 24-hour limit, though of course I understand that they want to sell viewings. Seems to me that they'd sell more without the silly limit.


You know the clock on the 24 hour time limit doesn't start ticking until you press play right? Same with paying for it, you're not charged until you watch it.


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## HoTat2

peds48 said:


> an R22 that is being used as an SD DVR, (with no HD access) would have the HDTV options greyed out (inaccessible). thus the 720p and 1080i options would not be available. the receiver will output at most at 480p.


I think that's the way the R22s used to function early on without HD access, but nowadays DIRECTV allows those HD options on the R22 to be enabled even without HD access for display of a subscriber's HD locals and any HD VODs.


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## dettxw

RunnerFL said:


> You know the clock on the 24 hour time limit doesn't start ticking until you press play right? Same with paying for it, you're not charged until you watch it.


No ****? :lol:

TV-watching blocks are short around here, just don't have 1.5 to 2 hours at a time to watch a movie, gotta break up the viewings.


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## RunnerFL

dettxw said:


> No ****? :lol:
> 
> TV-watching blocks are short around here, just don't have 1.5 to 2 hours at a time to watch a movie, gotta break up the viewings.


That's understandable. Just wanted to make sure that you knew your "24 hour rental" didn't start until you pressed play.


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## adkinsjm

"dettxw" said:


> No ****? :lol:
> 
> TV-watching blocks are short around here, just don't have 1.5 to 2 hours at a time to watch a movie, gotta break up the viewings.


Faulting DirecTV's PPV policy is funny coming from somenone who is pretentious enough to announce on here that they don't have time to watch a movie.


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## Stuart Sweet

It's my pleasure to close this thread and redirect you here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=197205


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