# Connecting H20 to a PC to record Satellite



## tclark5150 (Sep 30, 2007)

Is it possible to connect the H20 to a PC to and use the PC to record from the Satellite dish? 

I am considering getting a new PC w/ XP or Vista in order to use it as a DVR. But before I go through the trouble, I just want to make sure that it is possible to do this, because if everybody did, Direct TV would not be able to sell the service and the more expensive recievers. 

Also, how would I hook the H20 up to the PC? Now, I have a HDMI cable from the reciever to the TV (Hitachi 42in Plasma), and the cable is already in the wall. I found a Vista pc with an HDMI output. But would I have to get an additional video card with an HDMI jack to act as an "in" for the PC? Or would I use the USB or YPBR to use as an "out" from the reciever to the PC?

Please help!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tclark5150 said:


> Is it possible to connect the H20 to a PC to and use the PC to record from the Satellite dish?
> 
> I am considering getting a new PC w/ XP or Vista in order to use it as a DVR. But before I go through the trouble, I just want to make sure that it is possible to do this, because if everybody did, Direct TV would not be able to sell the service and the more expensive recievers.
> 
> ...


Welcome to DBSTalk.
I've done what you're asking about.
You need a video capture card and can only record noncopyright material in standard definition.
This kind of limits your HD experience and why I moved over to the HR-20
Using a PC for a DVR works better with OTA programing and an HDTV tuner card.


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## tclark5150 (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks for info. 

By copywritten material, you mean that I would not be able to record most of the network broadcast?


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

The best we have to hope for in the recording Directv signals to a PC in HD space is the as of now vaporware Directv card for the PC.

It was drummed up at a CES a long time ago - and then never heard about again. Some people who claim to be in the know say it is coming, but there is no official word from Microsoft or Directv.

I would be the first in line to buy one (or four) if they came out. I love the Media Center / Extender model.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tclark5150 said:


> Thanks for info.
> 
> By copywritten material, you mean that I would not be able to record most of the network broadcast?


Not really the NBC, CBS, ABC, etc. since they broadcast over the air but the premium channels like HBO, Showtime, Starz etc.


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## grandpaken (Feb 4, 2006)

tclark5150 said:


> Is it possible to connect the H20 to a PC to and use the PC to record from the Satellite dish?
> 
> I am considering getting a new PC w/ XP or Vista in order to use it as a DVR. But before I go through the trouble, I just want to make sure that it is possible to do this, because if everybody did, Direct TV would not be able to sell the service and the more expensive recievers.
> 
> ...


 There are no consumer level capture cards for HD. Most of us who are using 
BeyondTV,Sage, MythTV etc. use either the S-VIdeo or composite output of the H20 into something like a Hauppauge PVR-150 capture card which is SD. You also need a method of changing the channel on the H20 which is accomplished either with an IR Blaster device or a USB>Serial adapter and cable into the USB port of the H20. I have an IR blaster controlling a D10 and a serial connection on my H20.
There is no limit as to what you can record...whatever you watch you can record. Copywrite flags only come into play if you're using an HDMI connection. The quality of the recordings varies but if you're capturing one of HD channels the SD image is pretty darn good.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

grandpaken said:


> Copywrite flags only come into play if you're using an HDMI connection.


This isn't quite true.
The Media Center Edition 2005 seems to flag copyright issues more than using third party software apps, or even XP.
I won't go through the how & why because this type of discussion doesn't belong here, but just to point out some of the pitfalls, as I did in my first posting.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

Blackmagic makes a capture card which will record uncompressed HD through both component and HDMI. HDMI would not work as the H20 will not allow output to anything other then a TV and certain monitors. Component would work fine, but you would need a very highend computer setup as HD uncrompressed needs to write to disk at about 1GB per second. For now, SD is the only "consumer" way to record HD that is not OTA.


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## tclark5150 (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks guys, this as helped a lot!
I had not thought of alot of those things you pointed out.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Welcome to the forums, tclark5150! :welcome_s

Let us know what you try, especially if you try one of the blackmagic cards.


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## djfourmoney (Oct 4, 2007)

Let's see....

I had a H20 box but it didn't work right, so back it went.

I have been capturing SD content from D* boxes for over 4 years, I have YET to run into "Protected Content".

Umm, I doubt using an HD box would make any difference... After all the HD channels show up in my MCE Guide.

There is currently no way to capture inputs via HDMI or some other digital interface. Capture cards have not caught up to the Home Video market just yet.

With CES coming, that MIGHT change.

I much prefer this method of PVR/DVR because I can do what those with STB's can 't - EDIT!

In fact my adverts get DELETED on the FLY!

But I can confirm for capturing the S-video signal is still better in HD than SD. For strictly watching my panel supports VGA, DVI with HDCP and (2) component inputs

ATI's TV Wonder 650 has a 3D comb filter as well for improved picture quality even over tired old S-video.

DVR's are okay but you have to jump through too many hoops for my liking for archiving.

They don't activate the USB or Ethernet ports for fear of copyright issues. Then again they would sell more of these to hard core users if they could transport video over the USB for example.


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## djfourmoney (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> This isn't quite true.
> The Media Center Edition 2005 seems to flag copyright issues more than using third party software apps, or even XP.
> I won't go through the how & why because this type of discussion doesn't belong here, but just to point out some of the pitfalls, as I did in my first posting.


 HDCP support is coming....


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I want 1394 :lol:


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## CT_Wiebe (Oct 7, 2007)

Hi VOS, nice to "see" a familiar "face".

How about 1394b (A.K.A. S800)? That interface makes the 1394a (S400) look like it's draging a boat anchor (especially when running my 1TB external drive).

- Claus

PS - I'm using a Hauppauge PVR-250 via S-Video from my H20. Even though it's only recording in SD (MPEG-2), the video still looks great.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

CT_Wiebe said:


> Hi VOS, nice to "see" a familiar "face".
> 
> How about 1394b (A.K.A. S800)? That interface makes the 1394a (S400) look like it's draging a boat anchor (especially when running my 1TB external drice).
> 
> ...


:welcome_s aboard DBSTalk. 
We're always wanting to add to the brain trust here.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

tclark5150 said:


> Is it possible to connect the H20 to a PC to and use the PC to record from the Satellite dish?
> 
> I am considering getting a new PC w/ XP or Vista in order to use it as a DVR. But before I go through the trouble, I just want to make sure that it is possible to do this, because if everybody did, Direct TV would not be able to sell the service and the more expensive recievers.
> 
> ...


I use two H20s connected to a Saber2020 capture card, running Vista Ultimate (home premium works fine as well, though i'd recommend buying ultimate oem from newegg or fry's).

It's a bit of a pain in the ass getting the IR blaster to work right with the H20, but it will work. The key trick is to keep the IR blaster an inch or so away from where the little reception spot is, using a popsicle stick or something to hang it in front.

It's cool using the 2 H20s because each one can have a separate IR blaster code, meaning they can change channels independently.

Vistaview makes the saber2020; i think they have a new card with atsc. I'd definitely strongly recommend any dual tuner card from them, but make sure you have the right PCI or PCIeX1 slot. i bought mine through pcalchemy.com.

WIndows vista is easier to configure because you don't need to train the remote. Plus i like the UI more.

As for protected content, the only content you'll run into trouble with is HBOHD, and even then, you'll only have problems playing it on a different computer. Every other piece of content I've run across is unprotected.

The protection flag is set in the s-video cable stream. MSFT follows it voluntarily, there is no legal reason they do this. Since it is not guide-based, if you really want unprotected HBO, you can -- completely legally -- use a video stablizer, like the one from go video, to strip out the analog protection flag (if it were all digital, this would not be legal).

Let's see, what else. You shoudl go into this knowing that you will encounter many little problems, and it will take a while to figure it all out, but once you are done, you will have a much better DVR for SD content than the typical D* crap.

The best part is being able to share stuff aroudn the house, putting it on DVDs, the network, mobile devices, whatever you want; you can even use a new MSFT app called webguide to stream it across the internet, just like slingvideo.

Once you do t he H20, you're going to want to start ripping your DVDs and other things, far beyond the scope of this forum.

You're also going to want to get an ATSC antenna if you ahve an HDTV. Or better yet, there is a network-based tuner whose name somehow currently escapes me that I would recommend

Have fun!


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

djfourmoney said:


> HDCP support is coming....


HDCP is irrelevant here. The issue here is playback on computers other than the one that recorded it.

Currently (and for the foreseable future), only HBOHD flags its content.

MSFT voluntarily follows this for no legal reason.

You can use a video stabilizer like the one from go video to strip this from the s-video signal.

Doing this is completely 100% legal.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> This isn't quite true.
> The Media Center Edition 2005 seems to flag copyright issues more than using third party software apps, or even XP.
> I won't go through the how & why because this type of discussion doesn't belong here, but just to point out some of the pitfalls, as I did in my first posting.


It does it more than sagetv or beyondtv because those companies don't follow the CGMS-A flag, which is purely voluntary (no legal reason to be doing this).


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> The best we have to hope for in the recording Directv signals to a PC in HD space is the as of now vaporware Directv card for the PC.
> 
> It was drummed up at a CES a long time ago - and then never heard about again. Some people who claim to be in the know say it is coming, but there is no official word from Microsoft or Directv.
> 
> I would be the first in line to buy one (or four) if they came out. I love the Media Center / Extender model.


It is coming and I'll bet that the company that will deliver it is http://www.vboxcomm.com


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## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

iv been keeping an eye out for this for awhile, its inevitable, but the RIAA types are going to prolong this for as long as possible.

Does anyone have the Blackmagic HDMI card..? I havent even been able to read any reviews on it yet. And its been out for a coupla years now. I think the powers that be prefer nobody realy knows about it.

The other question is HD software. Just because you can get the signal in (and thats proving problematic enough) You have to have some software to decode it and probably a new format, unless the software makers are smart and nice and allow MPEG4, which i doubt, theyll prob want to have some propietary format which will then require the creation and use of a conversion program. 
Im sure the software exists, but its at the professional level, which prob includes liscencing issues as well as prohibitve costs.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RamaX said:


> iv been keeping an eye out for this for awhile, its inevitable, but the RIAA types are going to prolong this for as long as possible.
> 
> Does anyone have the Blackmagic HDMI card..? I havent even been able to read any reviews on it yet. And its been out for a coupla years now. I think the powers that be prefer nobody realy knows about it.
> 
> ...


MPEG-4 is a compressed signal.
Component [analog] and HDMI [1.4 gb/s] are uncompressed so they aren't MPEG.
There are copy-guards with both, which might be why you won't see these cards being used widely, since they're made for HDV camcorders, and not for hacking a DVR.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> MPEG-4 is a compressed signal.
> Component [analog] and HDMI [1.4 gb/s] are uncompressed so they aren't MPEG.
> There are copy-guards with both, which might be why you won't see these cards being used widely, since they're made for HDV camcorders, and not for hacking a DVR.


Right. Theoretically, you can buy a component to HDMI converter (very cheap) and a blackmagic card ($250 i think). But watching and recording stuff in real time with things like buffers would not be easily done due to all the CPU churn unless you went totally uncompressed, and then you'd need a really fast HD.

I think. (I might be wrong).

Blackmagic's card doesn't do HW compression, so you'd need a software program to do that for you, and the CPU demands would be intense, I mean, you might be able to pull off real-time stuff with a quad core q6700 oc'd. 

The HW encoders for doing SD content dont' need nearly the same horsepower that the encoders for HD content require. That's why there arent' currently any HD encoding cards that I know of for consumers. (ATSC tuners are just tuning a compressed signal.)

I remember reading something about Fujitsu coming out with a MPEG4 HD encoder that would be a prosumer type of deal--if when that comes, that might make the hardware side of all this doable.

Then someone would need to write some software to support it, but that probably wouldn't take that long.


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## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> MPEG-4 is a compressed signal.
> Component [analog] and HDMI [1.4 gb/s] are uncompressed so they aren't MPEG.
> There are copy-guards with both, which might be why you won't see these cards being used widely, since they're made for HDV camcorders, and not for hacking a DVR.


OK yeah so that was a Homer Simpson moment--*DOH~!* I know that one of the main purposes of the D* recvr is to uncompress signals (the BBC converter i suppose handles MPEG4) and it outputs to the TV as a dig signal for HDMI or analog for component, i just had a brain fart as to what to call that signal. Also i was thinking in terms of what format a PC would try to lay or save it as.

Im still trying to grasp how HDMI has copy guards built in. Once the signal is sent as an output - how would the HDMI cable know if its a TV, or some other equipment ? I suppose thats why the idea of using compenent for an analog signal has some merit, because there cant really be any copy guards built in,owever theyre doing it.

Then i guess you could use a converter like this converter
and then maybe a card like this. Optibase 
I also saw more encoding systems, but theyre all more on the pro level, in particular as far as price is concerned.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

RamaX said:


> OK yeah so that was a Homer Simpson moment--*DOH~!*
> 
> Im still trying to grasp how HDMI has copy guards built in. Once the signal is sent as an output - how would the HDMI cable know if its a TV, or some other equipment ? I suppose thats why the idea of using compenent for an analog signal has some merit, because there cant really be any copy guards built in,owever theyre doing it.
> 
> ...


hdmi is just an interface.

if the content it carries is encrypted with HDCP, then there is copy protection.

HDCP requires a digital connection, like HDMI or DVI. Analog interfaces, like component, use something called CGMS-A. It's illegal to bypass HDCP, but following CGMS-A is purely voluntary (this is the analog loophole that the mouse wants to shut).

It's a big giant FU to paying customers.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

RamaX said:


> OK yeah so that was a Homer Simpson moment--*DOH~!* I know that one of the main purposes of the D* recvr is to uncompress signals (the BBC converter i suppose handles MPEG4) and it outputs to the TV as a dig signal for HDMI or analog for component, i just had a brain fart as to what to call that signal. Also i was thinking in terms of what format a PC would try to lay or save it as.
> 
> Im still trying to grasp how HDMI has copy guards built in. Once the signal is sent as an output - how would the HDMI cable know if its a TV, or some other equipment ? I suppose thats why the idea of using compenent for an analog signal has some merit, because there cant really be any copy guards built in,owever theyre doing it.
> 
> ...


That optibase card you mentioned has an MSRP of $18,995 (i think). Looks cool though.

http://www.visiblelight.com/mall/productview.aspx?pid=761

The converters aren't really useful for PC DVR use because there aren't capture cards that can handle real-time HD content (at a reasonable price). The converters are more useful in scenarios where you have a TV that only has a digital input and you want to convert an analog component signal to digital.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

The blackmagic card will capture from component also. The HR20 displays the same resolutions in both component and HDMI. That being said, you could easliy capture HD material from any channel you wanted through component. The reason not many people do this is you will need a perfomance raid0 that is stripped. A simple hard drive can not write fast enough to record uncompressed HD.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

RamaX said:


> OK yeah so that was a Homer Simpson moment--*DOH~!* I know that one of the main purposes of the D* recvr is to uncompress signals (the BBC converter i suppose handles MPEG4) and it outputs to the TV as a dig signal for HDMI or analog for component, i just had a brain fart as to what to call that signal. Also i was thinking in terms of what format a PC would try to lay or save it as.


also the bbc converter is just handling the frequency of signals coming from the dish, it is codec agnostic. all the decoding happens inside the box.

but yet you are right -- the purpose of the receiver is to decode compressed video (as well as decrypt the video, provide consumers a UI, do DVR functions, etc).

the PC can record it in whatever format its capture card supports, but it also needs software to do the UI, display, etc.

currently the best bet is using S-Video, if you don't mind the quality difference. i use HR-20 for premium HD, and vista for all SD D* and ATSC (broadcast) material.

probably 80% of TV i watch on my HTPC and 20% on HR20


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## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

jedster said:


> That optibase card you mentioned has an MSRP of $18,995 (i think). Looks cool though.
> 
> http://www.visiblelight.com/mall/productview.aspx?pid=761
> 
> The converters aren't really useful for PC DVR use because there aren't capture cards that can handle real-time HD content (at a reasonable price). The converters are more useful in scenarios where you have a TV that only has a digital input and you want to convert an analog component signal to digital.


Yeah i only mentioned the converters becauseall of the HD encoding i found uses HD-SDI input, and theres no HDMI to HD-SDI, but there are component to HD-SDI, so that would be necc with the Optibase card anyway (because spending 19 grand just wasnt enough hehe)

As for the price, yeah of course its prohibitively high, for now. But im guessin that at some point there will be similar HW available for more genereal public use. I was just reading this great article the other night about Linux and Moore's Law. I think its trend scenarios are pretty similar as PCs and high end video become more enmeshed.


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## steveken (Sep 15, 2007)

It sounds a lot like you guys are trying to do this stuff the extremely hard way. 

The way I do it with my H20 is I have the composite cables from output 1 on the H20 running into my Hauppage PVR-150MCE cards composite inputs. From there I set up Vista Ultimates Media Center application to pull in through the composite input (did it on MCE2005 as well), and had Vista use the IR blaster from the IR receiver to hanging in front of the IR on the H20. 

I know its not full HD, but it is still a hell of a lot better than the pictures you get on the other SD channels. To fix the aspect ratio of the recordings so they look right, I just change the zoom to level 3 I think it is and everything looks as it should. Since the input to the card is from the composite jacks on the H20, I don't have to worry about any copy protection restrictions. Give that a shot and I am sure you will find it satisfactory.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

steveken said:


> It sounds a lot like you guys are trying to do this stuff the extremely hard way.
> 
> The way I do it with my H20 is I have the composite cables from output 1 on the H20 running into my Hauppage PVR-150MCE cards composite inputs. From there I set up Vista Ultimates Media Center application to pull in through the composite input (did it on MCE2005 as well), and had Vista use the IR blaster from the IR receiver to hanging in front of the IR on the H20.
> 
> I know its not full HD, but it is still a hell of a lot better than the pictures you get on the other SD channels. To fix the aspect ratio of the recordings so they look right, I just change the zoom to level 3 I think it is and everything looks as it should. Since the input to the card is from the composite jacks on the H20, I don't have to worry about any copy protection restrictions. Give that a shot and I am sure you will find it satisfactory.


you should give s-video a try -- the PVR-150MCE accepts it, and the PQ should be much higher. it won't change your copy protection at all since only HBO-HD uses the CGMS-A flag (at least to my knowledge).

mostly what we've been talking about is whether there is a way to do HD into the PC, which there really isn't, at least not in a cost-efficient way with decent software.

i've got about 700 hours or so of stuff on my media server, probably half of it ATSC HD, all of it controlled by media center, which is terrific.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

RamaX said:


> Yeah i only mentioned the converters becauseall of the HD encoding i found uses HD-SDI input, and theres no HDMI to HD-SDI, but there are component to HD-SDI, so that would be necc with the Optibase card anyway (because spending 19 grand just wasnt enough hehe)
> 
> As for the price, yeah of course its prohibitively high, for now. But im guessin that at some point there will be similar HW available for more genereal public use. I was just reading this great article the other night about Linux and Moore's Law. I think its trend scenarios are pretty similar as PCs and high end video become more enmeshed.


yeah i'll bet these things are affordable pretty soon, within a couple of years, but we'll have to rely on illegal chinese imports probably, because i'll bet congress bans them here (DMCA).


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

I can't believe there isn't a $399 PCI-x card that captures Component at 1080i/
720p using a realtime MPEG2 encoding chip. If you can get an entire quad-core 
processor for a computer for $250-$200 I have a hard time believing a dedicated 
chip doing nothing but video encoding can't cost less than $2,000+

The Component-to-HDMI converter and the cheaper Blackmagic card is a good 
idea... but no one has done any real world testing on those Blackmagic cards, Pro 
version or not. Some have said they're not that great of quality, but even 
Blackmagic themselves won't answer questions on CPU requirements/data 
rates/dropped frames/etc. Plus, they have weird codecs I think that plug into 
programs like Adobe Premiere and some other high end programs only from what 
others have said... 

Seriously though - someone just make a realtime MPEG2 encoding card with 
Component inputs... there's a market for it...


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## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

First off,
"If ignorance is bliss, going to Clemson must be orgasmic..." = R O F L M A O 
Im a Syracuse fan, but thats just a great quote

OK 2ndly,

I sort of see this as 2 diff issues, one hardware one software.
Connectivity, as i see it, is the first issue. I know theres been more talk about using component because theres no supposed copy guards built into it. But i sort of prefer HDMI because its already a digital image, less work for the PC, less chance of conversion loss. What i want is an HDMI input just so that i can get this signal into the PC. Hence the question about the unknown quality of the blackmagic card. Plus, what about HDMI to DVI, are copy guards preserved in that? Just curiousif anyone knows.

But i think the real issues are going to be software. Yeah i wanna be able to archive whatever i want in true HD quality. I recall when DVDs first came out, of course my first thought was, dam ive got all these friggin VHS tapes, what about them. The promise of being able to burn my own DVDs is what brought me over. And using the extra space of a DVD versus a regular CDrom, thats where, at least to me, DVDs became the real deal. I sort of see this as the same thing. At soe point were going to be able to burn HD DVDs from our PC, it just irks me its taking this long so im trying to figure out whats outthere so far.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

RamaX said:


> First off,
> "If ignorance is bliss, going to Clemson must be orgasmic..." = R O F L M A O
> Im a Syracuse fan, but thats just a great quote
> 
> ...


I've given up hoping for digital captures via HDMI... the protection flag is on 
everything and even if a manufacturer of a capture card releases a card that 
ignores it, they'll just remove that company's/card's decryption key and it'll stop 
working.

That's why eventually even Component connections will start disappearing. And 
on top of that there's actually work being done on setting some sort of encryption 
on existing Component outputs via software updates I've heard. Dish was 
playing around with that supposedly.

Ah well, time will tell. In the interim, I'd pay some money for a dedicated MPEG2 
encoding card with Component inputs, but I'm not paying a small fortune for one...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

If you look, the component output has "protection" on it too, just not the same as HDMI since it's analog. IIRC: it's macovision


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> If you look, the component output has "protection" on it too, just not the same as HDMI since it's analog. IIRC: it's macovision


That's correct. However, since it's analog, it's perfectly legal to defeat the copy protection flag. In the case of S-Video, video stabilizers remove the flag; I'd be suprised if there wasn't some way of doing it with component as well.

Not that it's an issue.

As for software architecture, when/if an HD capture card is created, someone wold also need to make good DVR software that supports it.

My cynical side says M$ would never support such software, but I could be wrong.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to map media center's channels to make the following scenario work: it thinks it's recording SD, but it's actually recording HD. I know this has been demonstrated to work using firewire to some cable STBs, except then what's really happening is both an SD and an HD file are being written. The thing that comes more to mind is what HDHomeRun does with remapping QAM to make Media Center think it's ATSC (for Locals).


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

The HDMI Interface includes a layer of protection known as High Definition Copy protection (HDCP). There are two versions, 1.x and 2.x+. The output from the source device is, of course, a high speed serialized digital stream using TMDS low level signal protocol. However, there is also a two way low speed serial communication channel that is used to ideintify the destination device connected, and arbitrate the digital receiving rights of the destination device. Every receiver, monitor, recorder, PC card, etc. must have a unique ID to comply with HDCP. The source is required to establish the credentials of the destination before it can send the signal, and it must make sure the individual rights of the stream being sent meet the rights of the destination to display and/or record it. This is one of the reasons there are so many problems with HDMI devices. Some monitors, for example, were made before HDCP 2.x and therefore don't completely identify or credential themselves correctly, so a newer source won't send a signal to them. In many other cases, both devices simply don't have the latest firmware or digital rights information and don't know if they are able to communicate, so the source is required to stop sending data.

The rules for what device can display what signal are very clearly spelled out in the specifications and are controlled by the content providers to achieve their objectives. This prevents people from recording a digital high quality copy of the source without the consent of the owner of the content. That's the biggest concern of the industry as I understand it.

Lots of reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
http://www.hdmi.org/
www.vesa.org

Steve


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

The point they're missing is that if I want to download an episode of the 
Sopranos from HBO HD, they're out there... they're going to continue to be out 
there... and all this does is screw over the consumers who want to archive 
programs for their own personal use.

They were small losses for DRM, but losses nonetheless when Apple announced 
DRM free music downloads and Amazon is coming out with an MP3 site that sells 
actual .mp3 files without any DRM... what a concept. Hopefully that will spread to 
the video world too.


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## PTravel (Oct 5, 2007)

phat78boy said:


> Blackmagic makes a capture card which will record uncompressed HD through both component and HDMI. HDMI would not work as the H20 will not allow output to anything other then a TV and certain monitors. Component would work fine, but you would need a very highend computer setup as HD uncrompressed needs to write to disk at about 1GB per second. For now, SD is the only "consumer" way to record HD that is not OTA.


The Blackmagic Intensity product can, apparently, capture compressed HD. From the Blackmagic website: "_If you need lower data rate editing, you can also select from a range of professional compressed video capture modes. _" The website doesn't have a lot of information, but does indicate that it can capture to JPEG AVI that is compatible with Adobe Premiere Pro, among others.

I've also been thinking about setting up a media computer to serve video from my BluRay DVD and my DTV HR20-700. The Blackmagic Intensity Pro ($349) can capture from both component and HDMI -- component capture should eliminate any extraneous copy protection introduced by HDMI from either the DTV box or the BluRay, at least as long as the content providers don't implement the resolution limit flag (and, so far, none have). Needless to say, however, I would not use Microsoft's Media Center edition for this project, as the DRM is far too intrusive. Virtually all of its functionality can be duplicated by third-party stand-alone programs that are far more capable.


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

uscboy said:


> The point they're missing is that if I want to download an episode of the
> Sopranos from HBO HD, they're out there... they're going to continue to be out
> there... and all this does is screw over the consumers who want to archive
> programs for their own personal use.


I certainly agree with you that there are ways to do this. I was not endorsing the HDCP solution that exists. In fact, it makes my life very hard because it is very expensive and design intensive to make sure you are fully compliant with the protocols, or your TV design just won't work at all - period. I'm personally against all forms of DRM, as I am also against all forms of piracy. I don't support downloading mp3s for free (though I am guilty of having done so) without paying the artist. I do believe that if I contract for a content stream for my own personal use, whether it is music of video, I should be able to capture it in any form available, for my personal use. That's a philosophy not supported by the laws today. So, I comply:nono:


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

PTravel said:


> The Blackmagic Intensity product can, apparently, capture compressed HD. From the Blackmagic website: "_If you need lower data rate editing, you can also select from a range of professional compressed video capture modes. _" The website doesn't have a lot of information, but does indicate that it can capture to JPEG AVI that is compatible with Adobe Premiere Pro, among others.
> 
> I've also been thinking about setting up a media computer to serve video from my BluRay DVD and my DTV HR20-700. The Blackmagic Intensity Pro ($349) can capture from both component and HDMI -- component capture should eliminate any extraneous copy protection introduced by HDMI from either the DTV box or the BluRay, at least as long as the content providers don't implement the resolution limit flag (and, so far, none have). Needless to say, however, I would not use Microsoft's Media Center edition for this project, as the DRM is far too intrusive. Virtually all of its functionality can be duplicated by third-party stand-alone programs that are far more capable.


I have no idea why you'd want a computer to serve up video from your DVR. Unless I'm missing something, the computer is an unnecessary middleman without providing any benefit whatsoever.

BR playback on the other hand is a different story, if you have an HTPC with either a BR drive OR you rip your BR discs to HD and put them on a network.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about what with media center? Do you use the product?

I do. Other than HBO-HD, I have never had a single DRM issue -- not one. First of all, if you want to avoid DRM with DVDs, just use a product like AnyDVD. Now, while it's true that media center does not currently natively support HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, it's relatively easy to configure media center to play them (you stilll need a 3rd party app).

MS has done lots of crazy dumb stuff over the years, but Media Center is one of their best products by far, and this notion that it is weighted down by DRM is one of this internet fantasy tales, pure hogwash.

The HR20-700, now that's a DRM nightmare. Because of its PIA support of HDCP, I can't use my HDMI cable without fear of crashing the receiver.


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## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

satwood said:


> The HDMI Interface includes a layer of protection known as High Definition Copy protection (HDCP). There are two versions, 1.x and 2.x+. The output from the source device is, of course, a high speed serialized digital stream using TMDS low level signal protocol. However, there is also a two way low speed serial communication channel that is used to ideintify the destination device connected, and arbitrate the digital receiving rights of the destination device. Every receiver, monitor, recorder, PC card, etc. must have a unique ID to comply with HDCP. The source is required to establish the credentials of the destination before it can send the signal, and it must make sure the individual rights of the stream being sent meet the rights of the destination to display and/or record it. This is one of the reasons there are so many problems with HDMI devices. Some monitors, for example, were made before HDCP 2.x and therefore don't completely identify or credential themselves correctly, so a newer source won't send a signal to them. In many other cases, both devices simply don't have the latest firmware or digital rights information and don't know if they are able to communicate, so the source is required to stop sending data.
> 
> The rules for what device can display what signal are very clearly spelled out in the specifications and are controlled by the content providers to achieve their objectives. This prevents people from recording a digital high quality copy of the source without the consent of the owner of the content. That's the biggest concern of the industry as I understand it.
> 
> ...


Satwood, Great post, thanks for the info. What about non-HDCP compliant devices? Or at some point you think there'll be a way to spoof a device ID..? I would think that would be an easy go around. (easier said than done of course, maybe more logical go-around) It boggles my mind that i cant get my D*recvr to think its outputting to just a "source". It seriously irks me hehe. And after hearing about component protections, im just all the more irked. It strikes me as if they were adding protection to OTA signals, freakin signal nazis hehe.

Jedster as for why were trying to go about it this way, at least for me is:
Im not so much trying to use the PC as a DVR, with Blue Ray burners out, im looking for a way to archive HD content, true HD content (because im picky, and because i should be able to do it~! hehe) on disc, in compressed format, just like we archive MP#s and the like. Also you would be able to edit things on the PC before archiving it.

I see no reason why we cant archive broadcast HD just like we can HD from a video camera, itll happen.....e....ven.....tu...ally. But god they make us sweat and pay for crap first.


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

RamaX said:


> Jedster as for why were trying to go about it this way, at least for me is:
> Im not so much trying to use the PC as a DVR, with Blue Ray burners out, im looking for a way to archive HD content, true HD content (because im picky, and because i should be able to do it~! hehe) on disc, in compressed format, just like we archive MP#s and the like. Also you would be able to edit things on the PC before archiving it.


That makes some sense, but if you're using the PC as a DVR, then you have no need for the HR20, you'd be much better off with an H21.

Anyway, I've put an awful lot of thought into what you are trying to do, and using D* it's just not possible.

Right now I do the next best thing, which is S-Video for all the D* SD content, ATSC antenna for all the local HD content, both onto my Vista PC. Then I use the HR20 exclusively for premium HD stuff. (I've been doing this for about two years now, except obviously I used early generation equipment beginning, like XP and the HR10.)

If you go with cable, you can use XP or Vista Media Center to record any unencrypted QAM channel as well as all the analog channels.

Also, there are some cable STBs with active Firewire outputs, and you can use MCE to record Premium HD that way as well.

Finally, if you head over to AVS Forum, and look in the official vista cablecard thread, you'll find posts by a guy named MIke something or another who uses some sort of cable box that allows him to record pure HD on his HD.

If you're only goal is to increase your storage space of your HR20, then you should just buy a 1TB disk and use eSATA, or if you really want to go nuts, set up some sort of RAID array.

As for HDCP, the only way to defeat it is to get a board that strips the HDCP signal. These are kind of in the gray area of DMCA, I think, but I've seen them sold in small batches on avsforum as well.

The long and the short of it is that there is absolutely no way that I have heard of -- and I've looked a lot -- to easily and efficiently (let alone affordably or at all) use the PC as a DVR for premium HD D* content.

I'll wager that before there is a reasonably priced HD capture card with good DVR support, D* puts out its tuner, which I'll further wager will be made by VBox Communications vboxcomm.com.

One other thing to remember is that any HD capture solution that you'd want would also need digital audio (DD5.1) capture. It really sucks to watch HD content with a crappy stereo audio track. This isn't an issue if you don't have a home theater though.


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## jpitlick (Apr 19, 2007)

I've been running MythTV with a Hauppauge PVR-350 card connected to my H20-600 using the one of the composite outputs. The only problem that I had was that I needed to download the CE to activate the USB port for changing the channel with the MythTV box.


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

RamaX said:


> Satwood, Great post, thanks for the info. What about non-HDCP compliant devices? Or at some point you think there'll be a way to spoof a device ID..? I would think that would be an easy go around. (easier said than done of course, maybe more logical go-around) It boggles my mind that i cant get my D*recvr to think its outputting to just a "source". It seriously irks me hehe. And after hearing about component protections, im just all the more irked. It strikes me as if they were adding protection to OTA signals, freakin signal nazis hehe..


Thanks RamaX. Yes, it is _possible_ to make your destination device mimic the identification of another compliant destination such as a simple TV mode monitor. Doing so requires a more detailed understanding of the exact key and credential process in HDCP, and control over the actual firmware in the destination device you are building. I am not surprised to read that this is being done but I would not suggest doing it for a myriad of legal and ethical reasons. I see both sides of the argument and I know how the hacker segment caused so much trouble in the CableCard world. The amount of trouble that caused all of us could fill a book of posts.

As an aside, I don't think it is at all necessary. the dynamic range and overall signal integrity of the analog outputs on the H20 are fantastic actually. I suspect thay are 8 bit, but even so they seem to produce very well scaled source signals. Get yourself a Xilinx development kit, some Analog Devices A/D components, a software development platform, some PC board layout software, and you could build your own analog HDTV acquisition module to interface into an AGP port or even directly to a SATA drive. The actual mechanism to do this is very straightforward, the 3 - 6 months of software and FPGA code development is the major impediment.:grin: Once you have it working, you could make a business selling them. We spent about 9 man-months of software development on our last HD Video acquisition board for portable products. It works great, and the BOM is somewhere under $500 per unit. (I can't say how far under...). Now, if you had a IMAQ digital image acquistion module and some appreciation of LabView software development you _could_ use the output of -- no never mind, forget I said that...

I'm sure the folks at ATI and Matrix are working on a consumer grade analog HDTV PC card as we speak. That, with some more modest software development will certainly make an affordable PC-DVR soon enough.

As for sound, that's already been done by several products in the broadcast industry for PC controlled recording studios. No content protection involved


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## satwood (Dec 11, 2006)

BTW -- To comment on an earlier post, just "stripping off" the HDCP protection is not enough. It's not embedded in the stream, it's a separate two way transaction that is active the entire time the connection is on. An HDCP compliant destination device will not display a signal unless it sees valid credentials from the source. It's a two way system designed to prevent the simple digital version of video stabilizers. In order for a device to get access to the stream, it would need to mimic both a valid destination to the source, and a valid source to the destination. This potenitally violates numersous copyrights, confidentiality agreements, and of course the federal law supporting digital rights access control. Anything can be done, of course, but this area of hacking crosses over into a much more complicated minefield of legal protections than in the past. 

Remember, the DVR concept itself is protected by several patents and every embodiment comes under some form of IP licensing or IP protection umbrella. So the spiderweb includes DRM laws, copyright laws for the keys and credentials, IP laws for the underlying technology, copyrights on the content itself, fair use laws on the components you would use, etc. It's not worth the trouble.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 28, 2007)

Here is a new review of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro card: http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.php?articleId=196603506


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

pdicamillo said:


> Here is a new review of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro card: http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.php?articleId=196603506


I still don't see that anything has changed. This still is not compatible with a DVR or HD receivers.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 28, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I still don't see that anything has changed. This still is not compatible with a DVR or HD receivers.


As I read it, the $350 card could be used to capture the HD analog component output. However, notice that the data rates require a massive amount of disk space, especially for a home computer.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

I've seen the card in action capturing HD from component. It was not from a receiver, but I don't see any reason it couldn't have been. The capture was done at 720P @~60hz.

I personally don't see it as a realistic setup, but it can be done.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

pdicamillo said:


> As I read it, the $350 card could be used to capture the HD analog component output. However, notice that the data rates require a massive amount of disk space, especially for a home computer.


"Owing to the HDCP features of the HDMI standard, Intensity Pro will not capture DRM encoded material."
I keep reading "HDV" which is a camcorder standard.

Besides hard drive size & speed, is the need for a PCI express slot too.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

phat78boy said:


> I've seen the card in action capturing HD from component. It was not from a receiver, but I don't see any reason it couldn't have been. The capture was done at 720P @~60hz.
> 
> I personally don't see it as a realistic setup, but it can be done.


Again even with component connections to the H/HR-20 there is copyguard on the output.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 28, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Owing to the HDCP features of the HDMI standard, Intensity Pro will not capture DRM encoded material."
> I keep reading "HDV" which is a camcorder standard.
> 
> Besides hard drive size & speed, is the need for a PCI express slot too.


Yes, you could not use HDMI to capture from an H20 or HR20. The review barely mentions it, but the $350 card also has analog capture, which (as far as I know) cannot be DRM encoded and would work. However, I agree that there are several factors that make it impractical with home computers.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Again even with component connections to the H/HR-20 there is copyguard on the output.


I can easily capture an HD channel from my H20 via component with my hauppauge card. This is not in HD resolution, but it records with no complaints. I'm not sure where/how the copygaurd gets enabled, but I haven't seen a problem with it so far.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm not certain about this, but I remember from somewhere that D* receivers can do copyguard, but it's not hardwired. It's controlled by a bit D* can turn on in the datastream for a program, and which is normally off. I don't know if copyguard is technically feasible for the RGB component outputs, or how HDTVs would react to it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

pdicamillo said:


> I'm not certain about this, but I remember from somewhere that D* receivers can do copyguard, but it's not hardwired. It's controlled by a bit D* can turn on in the datastream for a program, and which is normally off. I don't know if copyguard is technically feasible for the RGB component outputs, or how HDTVs would react to it.


Macrovision has never been a problem with TVs since it's in the retract time, but recorders have had to have hardware [switches] blank this for copying.
I once tried to copy the SD output to a video capture card [TV tuner] while running MCE 2005. It kept "flagging" on the copyright.
Since none of this thread is for hacking, I just point out some of the things I've found. YMMV
Anybody is welcome to drop the bucks and try these cards. [But don't be surprised if you have problems.]


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Not to mention there was some evidence that HR20 receivers were using HDCP (HDMI content protection), sometimes a bit too vigilantly.


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

i haven't read anywhere about this but doesn't the setting have to be set to 480p??


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## Richard Miller (Oct 22, 2007)

I have a H20-100 connected to Vista Media Center using 150-MCE analog TV card, S-Video for H20-100 to Vista.

The plasma is set to 720p using DVI.

I have *no DRM *problems when recording Showtime or HBO.

Vista is then Networked to Windows Home Server(WHS) that has 2TB of storage for the TV recordings.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

Richard Miller said:


> I have a H20-100 connected to Vista Media Center using 150-MCE analog TV card, S-Video for H20-100 to Vista.
> 
> The plasma is set to 720p using DVI.
> 
> ...


I have a very similiar setup.


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## Richard Miller (Oct 22, 2007)

phat78boy said:


> I can easily capture an HD channel from my H20 via component with my hauppauge card. This is not in HD resolution, but it records with no complaints. I'm not sure where/how the copygaurd gets enabled, but I haven't seen a problem with it so far.


The only problem you may have is trying to burn it to DVD or watching the recording on another PC, but I have never had that problem ever, I can burn DVDs and watch the TV recordings on my other PCs (XP or Vista) .


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## Wolverine7 (Oct 19, 2007)

For those of you using H20s with a PVR box, how did you get the control to work? 

I've recently subscribed to D*, and I'm trying to get my USB-UIRT control to work via BeyondTV in changing channels on the H20. I've got S-Video connections back to a PVR-250 and PVR-USB.

I try to use the 'learn' feature, and it seems to read the buttons, but then does not do anything when I test what was learned. I've never had any trouble learning a remote on the USB-UIRT before. Any ideas?


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## Richard Miller (Oct 22, 2007)

Wolverine7 said:


> For those of you using H20s with a PVR box, how did you get the control to work?
> 
> I've recently subscribed to D*, and I'm trying to get my USB-UIRT control to work via BeyondTV in changing channels on the H20. I've got S-Video connections back to a PVR-250 and PVR-USB.
> 
> I try to use the 'learn' feature, and it seems to read the buttons, but then does not do anything when I test what was learned. I've never had any trouble learning a remote on the USB-UIRT before. Any ideas?


The USB IR receiver will have small cable, an IR emiter, the end of that IR eimter will be next to or on the IR eye on the Directv receiver, when the eimter flashes the Directv receiver(H20) should change channel.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Richard Miller said:


> The USB IR receiver will have small cable, an IR emiter, the end of that IR eimter will next to or on the IR eye on the Directv receiver, when the eimter flashes the Directv receiver(H20) should change channel.


option two: 
serial to USB adapter and use serial control.


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## Wolverine7 (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't have any of the extension emitters; never needed them before. Does the IR signal from the main USB-UIRT 'mouse' not work, therefore requiring one of those emitter strings?

As for serial control, I'm game to try it, but curious what the pieces are. Neither the H20 nor my PC has a serial port; they are USB only. I've heard that I need a serial null modem, so would I need 2 of the USB-serial converts to make something like this:

USB->serial->null modem->serial->USB

or would it actually work straight USB->USB?


Thanks!


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

Richard Miller said:


> The only problem you may have is trying to burn it to DVD or watching the recording on another PC, but I have never had that problem ever, I can burn DVDs and watch the TV recordings on my other PCs (XP or Vista) .


I haven't any problems with either myself. Seems to work fine for me. I also use a couple media center extenders throughout the house.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

Wolverine7 said:


> I don't have any of the extension emitters; never needed them before. Does the IR signal from the main USB-UIRT 'mouse' not work, therefore requiring one of those emitter strings?
> 
> As for serial control, I'm game to try it, but curious what the pieces are. Neither the H20 nor my PC has a serial port; they are USB only. I've heard that I need a serial null modem, so would I need 2 of the USB-serial converts to make something like this:
> 
> ...


It IR signal will work from the USB IR emitter, but the emitter will need to aimed at your D* box.

As for your conversion questions, I haven't tried either but am curious also. If you get it working, please post.


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## Richard Miller (Oct 22, 2007)

@ Wolverine7: If look at the back of your USB IR blaster there is a port to connect the emiter cable, that emiter cable has to got to go to the H20 IR eye, because if not, the H20 will not know when to change the channel.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Wolverine7 said:


> I don't have any of the extension emitters; never needed them before. Does the IR signal from the main USB-UIRT 'mouse' not work, therefore requiring one of those emitter strings?
> 
> As for serial control, I'm game to try it, but curious what the pieces are. Neither the H20 nor my PC has a serial port; they are USB only. I've heard that I need a serial null modem, so would I need 2 of the USB-serial converts to make something like this:
> 
> ...


Do check this thread out: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1242111#post1242111


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## jedster (Sep 20, 2006)

Richard Miller said:


> The USB IR receiver will have small cable, an IR emiter, the end of that IR eimter will next to or on the IR eye on the Directv receiver, when the eimter flashes the Directv receiver(H20) should change channel.


in the case of the H20, you can't place the emitter onthe eye, you need to hang it off a popsicle stick or something, maybe an inch or two away from the eye.

for whatever reason, it won't detect signals coming flush up against the box, but it will if they are close to the eye, but not right on it.

IIRC, there is a new HD non-DVR box with a glossy eye (not the frosty white one). this one you can probably just stick the emitter right onto, like you can do with the HR20.


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## pathogen (Oct 12, 2007)

I use the WinTV HVR 1600 since it has atsc & and svideo and coax in vistaU works like a charm.


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## Schmedley (Dec 21, 2006)

pathogen said:


> I use the WinTV HVR 1600 since it has atsc & and svideo and coax in vistaU works like a charm.


I use one H-21-200, one H20-200, as is and one HR20-200 + 1 Terabyte Raid system ad on then three DVR recorders. No problem with S connection but quality falls short when viewed on 100 inch projection and still poor on 47 inch Samsung 15K contrast monitor. Blu-ray out of PS3 to both is superb.

I read all three pages and just wanted to subscribe and read as some very smart people contribute. Thanks.

For my purpose, over 100 hours is plenty of backlog for High Definition.


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## LoganSquare (May 25, 2007)

I'm using a Hauppauge HVR-1800 receiving the signal from an H20-100 via VHS/RCA for the sound with no problems. No problems with copy protection or picture quality. Obviously not the same quality as HD but not bad.

The HVR-1800 runs under XP Pro and Vista Ultimate. The computer is a homebuilt using an Intel Q6600, two meg of memory, Nvidia GE Force 8500, and a Gigabyte GA P35C DS3R motherboard with two sata drives and lots of storage.

Be aware that the card is not fully supported at this time for Linux and is a bit flakey under XP.

Used primarily for time shifting so I can catch the news and occasional Speed Formula 1 programming.

ls


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## HelenWeathers (Oct 7, 2007)

Hauppauge is releasing a YPbPr USB device called an HD PVR in May/June, 2008. I've recorded via S-video/stereo RCA since 2004. This unit records audio in 5.1 via Toslink so you get the 'current' best of both audio and video recording. As mentioned near the start of this thread, the H20 is a bear to get to change to proper channel but once you get it down it's very reliable. MS does flag some content as copy protected but if your computer supports ViiV technology all pcs on your network seen to be able to play the content.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

HelenWeathers said:


> Hauppauge is releasing a YPbPr USB device called an HD PVR in May/June, 2008. I've recorded via S-video/stereo RCA since 2004. This unit records audio in 5.1 via Toslink so you get the 'current' best of both audio and video recording. As mentioned near the start of this thread, the H20 is a bear to get to change to proper channel but once you get it down it's very reliable. MS does flag some content as copy protected but if your computer supports ViiV technology all pcs on your network seen to be able to play the content.


Has anyone gotten hold of one of these yet? It's supposedly shipping.


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## HelenWeathers (Oct 7, 2007)

http://blogs.snapstream.com/2008/04/07/the-hauppauge-hd-pvr-in-the-lab-at-snapstream/
Here is a link to some pictures (from April, 2008) of the unit in action with playback pictures also. Using snapstream software of course. I too am waiting for a review. Hope it works with Media Center XP or Vista.


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## Schmedley (Dec 21, 2006)

I have a Hauppauge HD PVR on order, due to ship mid to late July.


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## Schmedley (Dec 21, 2006)

Hauppauge PVR arrived. Monitor used for test, Samsung 46" 15,000 to 1 contrast. Computer 2gig dual processor with Vista. Input test pattern from HD Net downloaded 8-2-08 to HR20-700 - 

Preliminary visual testing as follows;

E to E with supplied cables + mine for return, visibly no loss. The test pattern showed the "vertical 7" and the "horizontal 7+" 

I do not have any HDTV testing software. All I can do is a subjective analysis. I am a retired TV broadcast consulting engineer.

Recording to the disk drive or DVD using the "AVCHD" showed substancial loss. 

I recorded an HDTV program and noted the old familiar cartooning problem with Video Tape.

Need better software than the ArcSoft supplied. NOT near HDTV.


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## HelenWeathers (Oct 7, 2007)

Schmedley, I have been using the HD PVR for about three weeks now and am much more pleased than you. In the Total Media settings, set your valiable and constant bit sates to maximum. I have gotten recordings that are virtually identical to the original transmission. I have been so pleased that I received my second HD DVR last week with SageTV and have them both set up in my pc instead of using my MCE media center. I'm a happy camper.


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## flexoffset (Jul 16, 2007)

Here's my method for SD from my HR20-100:
Mythbuntu on an old 900mhz AMD Athlon
Hauppage PVR250 Video Capture Card (on board MPEG 2 conversion)
M-Audio 2496 Audiophile Audio Card
Use HR20-100 analog output.
Transfer to my mac over ethernet
Set up for DVD Studio Pro
Burn.
YMMV Quality works for me vs. not having it at all.

I'm buying a Black Magic Intensity Pro soon so I can transfer the video straight from a new HD camcorder I plan to buy at years' end. You probably can't use it to copy HD off the DVR.


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## Olias88 (Aug 6, 2008)

I have been using the Intensity Pro to real time capture HD from the component outs on my D* box since last Christmas. While it's been working well, the captures are pretty large (doing real time software conversion from 1080i to mpeg2 is not trivial). I purchased the Hauppauge device and will be connecting it to a second sat box this weekend.


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## Schmedley (Dec 21, 2006)

HelenWeathers said:


> Schmedley, I have been using the HD PVR for about three weeks now and am much more pleased than you. In the Total Media settings, set your valiable and constant bit sates to maximum. I have gotten recordings that are virtually identical to the original transmission. I have been so pleased that I received my second HD DVR last week with SageTV and have them both set up in my pc instead of using my MCE media center. I'm a happy camper.


A second review of my PVR.

Subjective observation rather than technical scrutiny is the best way to address the picture, and I agree with Helen Weathers, I should be a happy camper too.

I have reconciled myself to a 40 minuit per 4.7 gig recording. I estimate the quality is well over 90% of the HDTV signal. Burning to Blu-Ray and playing back on my PS3 to a projector using a 100 inch screen is very watchable.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Schmedley said:


> Hauppauge PVR arrived. Monitor used for test, Samsung 46" 15,000 to 1 contrast. Computer 2gig dual processor with Vista. Input test pattern from HD Net downloaded 8-2-08 to HR20-700 -
> 
> Preliminary visual testing as follows;
> 
> ...


I've been watching the betas for the HDPVR in Sage and Snapstream and noone seems impressed with the bundled software.

I've also read the H264 encode/decode is horrendously draining on CPUs. Have you or Helen noticed that?

As an aside, the unit is now being sold in retail; $229 at Frys.


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## HelenWeathers (Oct 7, 2007)

The encode is done in the HDPVR itself so not much of a cpu is required. Playback, on the other hand, can really push a system that doesn't have a good video card. I use an nVidia based 9600GT which takes video processing off the cpu and handles it on card. CPU usage for playback with this card is minimal.

By the way, I've started recording at 720p (set my STB to output only 720p) with maximum bit rate settings, and have smaller file sizes and really good video playback.


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## Olias88 (Aug 6, 2008)

I now have my HD PVR recording from a H23 using SageTV. It records in the native resolution of the channel being tuned. Playback is done on a pair of SageTV HD Extenders.
It works and looks very good except for one bug. Playback through the HD Extenders of 720p material has a slight studder every 5 seconds.
Sage tech support says it's a bug in the H.264 coding of the HD PVR and Hauppauge is aware of the problem. If/when it does get fixed, I may get another HD PVR, retire my Intensity Pro and save some disk space.


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## flexoffset (Jul 16, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Let us know what you try, especially if you try one of the blackmagic cards.


I finally pulled the trigger. I've got a Black Magic Intensity Pro card coming in on Friday for my Mac Pro.

The main reason for the purchase is for direct HDMI capture of a sony HD camcorder but I figured I might as well test the HR20-100. I have component and TOSLINK cable and will report back sometime this weekend.

I also bought a Blu-Ray burner LG BE06LU11 (from newegg) for my Mac & a fair amount of discs. Been needing that for a while.


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## flexoffset (Jul 16, 2007)

Working beautifully. I'll post a link to ESPN News HD in a little while. Turns out there is a setting in the system prefs / control panel that has the card defaulted to HDMI input. Changed it to component and the rest is history. Sweeeet.

http://richardbrackin.smugmug.com/gallery/6358612_DqBF7//4017040


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