# FROM DISH: 0 Second Recordings Data Collection



## Mark Lamutt

Guys, we need some help on this one. I have been completely unsuccessful in getting my 921 to produce a 0 second recording, and I've been trying just about all night every night since it started popping up after the L211 download. Unfortunately, Eldon also has not been able to reproduce this bug on any of their test units in England or here in Denver. 

So, if you are willing to help us out with this very serious problem (and it is being taken extremely seriously), I need to know 2 things from those of you that have had or are currently experiencing the problem.

1. What is the hardware version of your 921? (L211HECD-N - HECD is the hardware version)

2. What is your switch setup? Please provide the details of your LNBs, switches, separators, adaptors, diplexors, etc. 

3. The next time your 921 records a 0 second recording, please post your timer information in as much excrutiatung detail as you possibly can, down to the level of including arrow commands, select commands, how you set your timer, minutes early, late, channel, program, last time you manually rebooted your 921, other timers firing, etc. Literally everything that you can possibly think of, and then more. 

There's not a fix for this one yet, because we haven't been able to track it down. With your help, hopefully we'll be able to.


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## boylehome

Mark, one other problem that may cause, "0" timed recordings is switch conflicts. I have posted some information concerning this: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36603

John

Additional information: 500 quad and 300 dual combined with two sw-21 switches.


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## Mark Lamutt

Hence why I just edited the OP to include that info.  (cross-editing / posting)


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## FrankD1

1) Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F053
SW Version: L211HEED-N

2) One DishPro Twin feeding two DP34's. Nothing else...

3) I'll provide minutiae on the 0 sec recordings ASAP. I'm flying back east tonight, so it might be a few days, but I'll do my best to post the info before I leave.


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## n0qcu

1. MY Hardware version HECD

2. Legacy LNB's & switches (see sig)

3. If it happens again will provide requested info.


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## jsanders

I'm sure they already have this info from me........

SW Version: L211HECD-N
Flash Version: F051
Boot Version: 120B

I'm using a legacy Dish 500 and a legacy Dish 300 with legacy sw 21s.

In the bug report I wrote, the timers were set with default padding, 3min before, 1 minute after, or whatever it was. 

If you want me to try to corrupt the unit again by trying to play back on a recording where trick play didn't work, I will. If it works, I should have a very problematic unit. If someone at eldon wants to trade me units for a week after that happens, I would be willing to do it (as long as I can get my original unit back).


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## William_K_F

I get zero second recordings for OTA on station that since update to L211 doesn't lock well anymore.


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## rjenkins

Boot: 120B
Flash: F052
SW: L211HECD-N

Switch/LNBF: DishPro Twin (Dish 500), DishPro Single (61.5) -> 2 DP34 switches.

I've yet to record CSI:NY on Wednesday evenings with L211. I keep getting 0 second recordings. Last night, it was a 1 minute recording. This is on WCBS-HD (satellite from 61.5). I had just rebooted the 921 that morning.

Timers around that time are:

7:00-8:00 Smallville on channel 030-01 (OTA digitial HD)
7:00-8:00 Lost on channel 4 (Satellite SD Local)

8:00-9:00 CSI:NY on channel 9483 (Satellite HD)

All timers are setup with the normal 1 minute before, 3 minutes after padding. CSI:NY fails to record, however. It's almost like it starts and then when one of the other timers stops, it stops also. And when I get these 0 second recordings, I usually go back and delete and recreate all the timers around that time to try to resolve the conflict for next week. Yesterday, I just ended up deleting Lost for next week, so hopefully CSI:NY will tape properly finally.

Maybe I should mention that I got Error Message 692 when I first downloaded L211, so nothing on WCBS-HD recorded that first night (a tuesday), several weeks ago. A reboot seemed to fix it. But for all I know this is the same error that I'm getting with these 0 second recordings. I'm rarely around when the timer tries to kick off. But since it's happened *every* Wednesday night, I think it's another problem. Especially since I'm able to record other shows on WCBS-HD.


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## BobMurdoch

Boot: 120B
Flash: F052
SW: L211HECD-N

1 Dish 500 and one Dish300? (not sure what to call the original dish, but it is smaller than the 500) feeding into 2 SW64 switches. 110/119 always pegged to max on signal strength around 120, while the 61.5 signal usually maxes at around 100.

For whatever reason, King of Queens on CBS HD (East) chokes 25% of the time. I've started taping CBS-W in SD as a backup. Otherwise I rarely see the problem other than an occasional 0 sec. recording on some HDNet programming (maybe 1 out of 20 will fail).


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## BobMurdoch

BTW, normal padding on the timer, no other recordings scheduled at the same time. The light lights up and it looks like it is recording fine, but it says 0 sec. if you try and open it after it stops.


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## Jason Kragt

Boot Version: 140B
Flash Version: F052
SW Version: L211HECD-N
Switch: 2 SW21 switches (119 on port 1, 110 on port 2, same for both switches)
No diplexors
There is only about 30 feet of coax between the dish and the receiver.
Coax is not surge protected.

Other Information:
I have not seen this problem since Monday night.
I have maxed out the number of timers I can use (in order to try to get it to happen again).
I have only noticed this problem on HD package channels (9420-9424).
I always remove time padding (start 0 minutes early, end 0 minutes late)
It has happened both when my disk drive is full and when it had plenty of free space.
It has happened after I erased all recordings.
It has happened after I ran the "disk check" utility.
It never happened before I received L211.
Weather and signal strength have been consistently very good (typically 110-125).
My dish is installed on a short metal pole. The dish and coax are both well grounded.
"Odyssey 5" on HDNet has failed twice. (The show will play three times again tonight.)
It has only happened with "one time" timers. (However, I do not have any daily or weekly timers on HD package channels anyway.)
Whenever I try to make this problem happen, it never does!

The exact error message I receive is: "Attention (679) The event you selected was not recorded. Please delete this event. It is not viewable."


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## Jason Kragt

Maybe this is a worthless experiment, but if you have timers and tuners available, would some of you guys be able to program timers for "Odyssey 5" on HDNet at 10pm, 1am and 4am Eastern Time tonight? I've had troubles with that show before, and it is on three times tonight. (Of course, with my luck, everything will record correctly tonight!)


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## jsanders

Jason,

I'm glad you haven't seen it happen since monday. I'm curous though, do you have any idea about how often it was happening since the last time? It has been three days now, is that interval still in the range that you expect it to happen again, or is it starting to be late?

Mine were happening every day, even multiple times a day.


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## jsanders

I think we all would consider it a gesture of goodwill on Dish's part if they would just tell us what that disk check utility actually does. I see no reason to publish the software without an explanation of what it does. Can we find out what it actually does?


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## Jason Kragt

It would take at least a week of no "0 second" recordings before I would let myself get my hopes up that it was fixed. I'm going to be gone over the holidays and I programmed a ton of recordings, so I have some great test opportunities ahead.


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## tnsprin

Mark Lamutt said:


> Guys, we need some help on this one. I have been completely unsuccessful in getting my 921 to produce a 0 second recording, and I've been trying just about all night every night since it started popping up after the L211 download. Unfortunately, Eldon also has not been able to reproduce this bug on any of their test units in England or here in Denver.
> ....


I have seen two occurances on my first 921 (l211-hecd) and one cut short recording (85 minutes out of 120, I heard that a storm passed over on that one)
The second 0 sec recording was when I set an OTA to record to record but had failed to switch my OTA antenna to the 921. (currently using a DPP44 with spliters).

Both those imply problems when the signal is interruped. My first occurance, repeated below, does not. I was able to view the picture, but the recording kept failing to record nomally. As you will note, I was able to back up a briefly while I switched to try to view the recording program, but even that was lost when I looked later.

From my 1st occurance on my first 921, at that time using a sw64.

"I have joined those who have now seen 0 minute recordings on L211. Never had one in the prior 6 months I had the machine.

In my case the 0 minutes recording was of showtime HD broadcast of pulp fiction.

Perhaps how I got there is significant. Had two recordings set to go at 8PM. 1) pulp fiction and 2) WCBS ny (off satellite). Before they fired I decided to watch a prior recorded program. After that program completed, I immediately told it to erase that program. At this point it said that both tuners were busy and did I want to stop recording pulp fiction (checked) or WCBS. I selected NO and it dumped me into Pulp Fiction that was in progress. I decided I would rather start seeing the WCBS program, and hit DVR and selected it instead. Once I finished watching that, I erased the WCBS program and tried to select pulp fiction. It showed that still recording, and dropped me to real time in it. I tried to backup but it only showed the last few seconds. At this point I was interrupted by a phone call, and decided to turn off the DVR and watch Pulp Fiction later. The red recording light stayed running. Later once the program was over I found the recording marked in my Recordings, but it wouldn't start and showed 0 minutes. Finally told it to erase the recording, which apparently showed as of some length, as it took some time, and the approximation of how much could be recorded WAS increased by about 2 hours for an HD recording."


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## mdellis33

Boot Version: 150B
Flash Version: F053
SW Version: L211HEED-N
Switch/LNBF: DishPro Twin (Dish 500), DishPro Single (148) -> 2 DPP44 w/ DPP Separator
No diplexors
Rebooted this morning because the format button was not working

Other Information:
I have only noticed this problem on HD channels
It happened tonight on CSI on CBSHD 9484. This was a weekly timer, 0 minutes early/late. I recorded CSI last week successfully.
I recorded Prime Time Live on 8200 immediately before the 0 sec recording
Without a Trace recorded successfully immediately after CSI on the same channel, CBSHD 9484 on a weekly timer, 0 min early, 2 min late
I had 13 hrs HD recording time remaining
I ran the "disk check" utility on Tuesday.
While CSI was recording (at least I thought it was) I started a recording of the TNTHD NBA game on 9420. I recorded about 15 minuted before I manually stopped the recording and paused the game. CSI was still attempting to record when I stopped the recording on 9420.
I'm still watching the game on delay. When I returned from the DVR screen to get the timer information I'm now getting jittery video!


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## wyseguy

Version: L211HEED-N

SW64, Dish 500+Dish 300, legacy LBNFs.

Happens with time-based recording, as well as selecting by name search in program guide. Just started happening with my replacement receiver in the last few days. Happens with HD and SD programs. Wasn't happening with my first 921 (L211HECD).


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## bbomar

Got my first 0-second recording Tuesday night 12/21/2004 on WZTV
Nashville OTA, recording House which was in HD. I only noticed it
today - 0 seconds and gives an error 679 when I try to play back.
The timer was set to defaults (3 min early and 1 min late I believe).
I don't think there were any other timers but I'm not 100% sure.
I was not here during the recording but my wife may have been 
watching something with the receiver. Sorry I don't have any more
information but I didn't notice it until today. Usually I have 125% signal
on WZTV (FOX 720p HD) from an outside antenna - no multipath since 
I'm on a high ridge and 50 miles from the station with a clear line of sight 
to the transmitter (all terrain in between is much lower elevation). 
However, I can't be sure the station wasn't having transmitter problems 
or something.

Legacy SW44 switch with ports 1 & 2 on SD receivers and ports
3 & 4 connected to the 921. I have 75 foot RG6 cable runs to the
921 with inline Philips amplifiers. Boot 140B, Flash F052, L211HECD-N.


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## Jason Kragt

I received three "0 second" recordings while I was gone over the holiday. The receiver was off. My hardware info is posted above. It successfully recorded several SD and HD programs. The ones that became "0 seconds" are:

"Sting: Sacred Love" Fri. 12/24 6:30pm-7:30pm 9422 HDNET
"Jaguar: Year of the Cat" Fri. 12/24 7:00pm-8:00pm 9421 DSCHD
"Odyssey 5" Sat. 12/25 4:00am-5:00am 9422 HDNET

However, it did successfully record the following HD programs:

"BBC: A Midsummer Night's Dream" Fri. 12/24 9:00pm-11:00pm 9421 DSCHD
"Law & Order" Sat. 12/25 2:30am-3:30am 9420 TNTHD
"Gone With the Wind" Sat. 12/25 9:15am-1:30am 9420 TNTHD

All of these, both successful and failed, were probably selected from the guide about 8 days ago. I did not intend to record "BBC: A Midsummer Night's Dream" or "Law & Order". The guide info must have changed since I set the timer. "Gone With the Wind" apparently was locking up the receiver. I could not view anything while it was recording and had to reboot. As a result, the recording was split into two parts. However, each part seems to have recorded correctly.

The only commonality that I can suggest at this point is that the programs that fail tend to result from timers that are set 8 days in advance, when the guide data for that channel and time first appear. When I only set timers a few days or hours in advance, they seem to have a better chance of succeeding. Perhaps that is why I have been having such trouble recreating this problem on short notice.


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## Grandude

Jason Kragt said:


> Maybe this is a worthless experiment, but if you have timers and tuners available, would some of you guys be able to program timers for "Odyssey 5" on HDNet at 10pm, 1am and 4am Eastern Time tonight? I've had troubles with that show before, and it is on three times tonight. (Of course, with my luck, everything will record correctly tonight!)


Jason,
I recorded two of the "Odyssey 5" programs that night without any problem.
Third one at 4am wasn't listed in the guide so I ignored that time slot.

I noticed your latest post and wonder if maybe you are correct that the problem occurs on timers set for the longer distant future than I have been doing. Mine are never more than one day ahead. I haven't set up any weekly ones now that everything is in reruns until January.
Brian


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## FrankD1

FrankD1 said:


> 1) Boot Version: 150B
> Flash Version: F053
> SW Version: L211HEED-N
> 
> 2) One DishPro Twin feeding two DP34's. Nothing else...
> 
> 3) I'll provide minutiae on the 0 sec recordings ASAP. I'm flying back east tonight, so it might be a few days, but I'll do my best to post the info before I leave.


Okay, i just got back into town late last night, and I had a bunch of zero second recordings waiting for me from the five days I was gone.

1) Six zero scond recording total during the five days. There were 15 programs successfully recorded during the same time, so that's an improvement for me.
2) No common thread as far as channel numbers affected... some were SD DBS chanels, some were OTA SD. All different channel numbers.
3) Four are listed in the PVR recorded list as "Unknown Recorded Event". These list the channel number, but they're all listed as "PTV" for the channel name rather than HBO-E, KTLA, KWGN, etc. These are all DBS channels coming over the satellite. There are no program descriptions for these either. When I attempt to play these recordings, I get an Attention 679 popup stating "The event you selected was not recorded. Please delete this event. It is not viewable."
4) Two OTA recordings show the program name and description. The same Attention 679 "The event you selected was not recorded..." popup comes up when attempting to play these.

Hope this helps... I just bought this 921 despite all the MPEG-4 grumblings, so this problem sucks! I was first in line for the 501 and 721, so I'm used to bugs, but this is ridiculous considering how long the 921 has been released. Please fix it E*!!!!!!!


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## lionsrule

The fact that you deleted my post doesn't make me angry, it only proves my point.
I'm sorry you are frustrated, but please take a long hard look at why you are frustrated. Is it more likely that a) You are frustrated at fighting a losing battle at trying to remain optimistic and supportive of a product that was, is, and will continue to be an insult to consumers or b) that my comments somehow sent you over the edge??


I'd vote for "A", no doubt about it.

I will grant you that my comments are in the wrong forum, and I apologize for that. But it makes ME sick, to see people running in circles trying to solve problems that YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SOLVE.

The truth hurts doesn't it.


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## Mark Lamutt

You are correct - your comments are in the wrong place. Take them somewhere else, or I will.


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## Bad Attitude

I had not seen this before yesterday and it occurred after a reboot on to previously scheduled OTA programs. I have a straight forward setup (see sig) nothing exotic. I've since done another reboot (because of the jitter problem) I'll let you know if it occurs again.


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## paulcdavis

The last in the follwing list (in action order list) of consecutive / overlapping timers yielded a 0-second recording on December 29, 2004:

7:58 - 9:01 pm 010-1 KXTV start pad 0 end pad 0 weekly manual OTA timer
8:00 - 9:00 pm 8220 KGO start pad 0 end pad 0 weekly guide sat LIL timer
9:00 - 10:00 pm 8222 KNTV start pad 0 end pad 3 weekly guide sat LIL timer
9:01 - 10:00 pm 003-1 KCRA start pad 0 end pad 0 weekly manual OTA timer

Unit in standby, last viewed channel sd sat in hd mode.

last power cord re-boot 12/10/2004

unit has been auto re-booting overnight

Dish 500 legacy 2 dual output LNBF feeding 2 sw-21 no diplexors, etc

Tuner 1 sat 119 trans 8 signal strength 95
Tuner 1 sat 110 trans 11 signal strength 101

Tuner 2 same as tuner 1

Check switch test: OK

Hard Drive test: OK

KXTV 010-1 signal strength 102

KCRA 003-1 signal strength 115


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## Jason Kragt

I can consistently get "0 second" recordings if I attempt to record two different programs from the HD Package (9420-9424) at the same time.

When I record one program off of the HD Package, I notice that it seems to use the main tuner instead of the secondary/PIP tuner for recording. In other words, when I turn on the 921 while it is recording in the background, I see the channel that is recording. I expected it to use the other tuner for recording.


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## 4HiMarks

I had my first ever 0 sec. recording tonight. I was trying to record Las Vegas off WRC-DT 004-1 broadcasting on UHF 48 out of Washington, DC. I have a Dishpro Quad feeding into a Terk 4 port clip-on, which diplexes to an A/B switch along with a Winegard 9065 that feeds into an ordinary splitter and then to the A/B switch. The Winegard is pointed at DC. I only use the Terk for Balt. stations, so it shouldn't enter into the equation. The timer was set from the guide as a weekly timer with 0 min padding on both sides. 

Additional information that may be relevant: 

1) I tried to "Start Over" while recording was still going on. I got a black screen with no sound, but the signal strength meter in the channel banner reported around 100-102. 

2) I have a LG LST 3510A hooked to the other output of the splitter coming from the Winegard. It picked it up just fine. 

3) WRC-DT had messed up PSIP data for over a year, displaying "CH1" as their call letters. This was fixed within the past few days. They also added sub-channel 004-2 in the past few days. After the recording was over, I deleted 004-1 and rescanned. The picture came in fine after that. I didn't try another recording though.

-Chris


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## 4HiMarks

A number of people over at the DC/Balt. thread on AVS Forum were reporting problems with WRC tonight, so my problem may not be the 921 at all.

-Chris


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## moviegoerman

OKAY GUYS: After months of 0 second recordings here's something new... 


Most of my recordings are using the OTA tuner. I've been having trouble locking into one of my channels before the L211 build.

After L211, I've noticed that some more channels began to not lock all the time. At the same time I noticed a significant jump in the amount of 0 second recordings. So far, I've been 4 out of 5 timers failing in the last 2 weeks.

To make it clear on my setup... My Tivo and 921 are hooked to the same TV antenna cable via a splitter within 5 feet of each box. The Tivo consistently locks into all the same channels and never misses a recording.

I started trying to figure out why I lost another recording tonight after missing another show I wanted to watch. I then noticed some of my satellite channels failing to lock and most of my OTA channels would not lock. I checked PIP with two satellite channels that did lock and that worked.

I did a soft reboot and I got the same problem. I disconnected the TV cables and ran it straight into the 921 without the splitter to the Tivo. I then removed power to the power inserter for my DPP44 (about 10 seconds), then I plugged it back in. I went through the check switch and the sats came up fine with the correct ports, etc.

I started getting all my sat channels back. Most of the OTA channels still failed to lock. I could do a Add DTV menu item and select one frequency. It would show a signal above 120, but I couldn't lock on the channel.

Finally, I did a full Scan DTV... F$%^ magic! All the sudden all of my OTA channels started to come back in except one (which I've had a trouble with in the past on the 921). I put the splitter back in the line like it used to be and the channels still continued to lock properly.

I set it on the one channel that wouldn't lock (11-1, NBC in Atlanta). For some reason the 921 always has trouble getting a consistant signal strength from this channel for me. The Tivo doesn't have a problem with the strength or locking into it. The 921 meter on the info bar would show 0, 66, 70, 3, 0, 70, 0, etc., as it was attempting to lock. Then, about 2-3 minutes later... Wallah! It locked.

I tried changing channels to one that worked and then back to 11-1. It locked within 20 seconds. Did it again and it locked under 5 seconds. Not consistant at all!

The moral to this story... I think the 0 second timers occur when the recording fails to lock to a channel in the beginning of the recording. It seems consistent with other events I've noticed. This is a different experience compared to it locking in the beginning and then failing to gain signal in the middle of a show. The show will just have dropouts if it locked within the beginning of the recording.

I think the 0 second recordings occur when it fails in the first minute or so trying to lock onto the channel. It doesn't continue to record even though the record light stays on. It's like it stops the recording thread without waiting for it to lock in at a later (over 2 minutes time, etc) time.

Something is in the code that prevents the recording if it doesn't lock. The more interesting thing I found is that it just started failing to lock to channels for no reason at all. A Scan DTV fixed it...

So, what's up? Is it a database issue? Some bit getting turned off when it fails to lock at some point? Signal Strength? Hardware (doubtful) ? It seems to be the software is neglecting to lock into channels for some reason or the other and that is causing all the missed recordings. Flipping Eldon guys can't get this right. It's been going on since I got this thing in July. Now it's the worst I've ever seen it. I'm hoping this ScanDTV fix stays fixed!

Note: that most of the time I haven't had trouble locking into my channels using LiveTV before this past week.


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## lujan

I think that you are correct, Moviegoerman that if the 921 can't get a lock on an OTA station, you will get a 0 second recording. I also think that if the 921 has trouble maintaining a lock on an OTA station, you will get a partial recording because that has happened to me several times, and I've noticed a lot of pixilization right before the recording stopped in the middle of the program.


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## FrankD1

lujan said:


> I think that you are correct, Moviegoerman that if the 921 can't get a lock on an OTA station, you will get a 0 second recording. I also think that if the 921 has trouble maintaining a lock on an OTA station, you will get a partial recording because that has happened to me several times, and I've noticed a lot of pixilization right before the recording stopped in the middle of the program.


I've gotten some ZSR's (zero second recordings) on SAT channels as well as OTA's, so while the inability to lock onto an OTA might cause some ZSRs (or at least be related to them), I don't think the OTA lock is the root cause of all ZSRs. FWIW, after having daily ZSRs for about a week, I just got through almost a week with none, then I had two of them yesterday, both on EPG selected, non-overlapping, SD SAT timers on WPIX (Superstation).


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## Mark Lamutt

Thanks to Jason's post earlier on the page here, I've FINALLY been able to make my 921 produce a ZSR (I like that term), and have started the testing process from that point working in an outward spiral. So far, I've been able to identify three cases now that will probably cause a ZSR with satellite channels, and have reported them. I have 12 more test cases set up today while I'm at work. I've never been able to get one to happen on an OTA channel, but I'm going to pull out my signal attenuator and connect it up to try to simulate losing the channel lock to see if I can make that work.


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## jsanders

Mine almost always happend with OTA channels. It wasn't a signal strength issue for me, as mine are usually over 100. During a ZSR, I could only tune to the station it was trying to record, wouldn't let me change to another station. For me, the red light wouldn't come on during the ZSR, but the "REC" sign would appear in the banner guide. Also, if I rebooted before the recording was supposed to end, the red light would go on and remainder of the recording would be without problems. However, doing a reboot before the end of the recording would not help if I was trying to record something off of the satellite.


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## jsanders

So, Mark, based on Jason's comment, are you thinking you need to be tuned to an unused tuner to stop the problem? ie., if you tune to a satellite station before putting the 921 in standby will help if you are recording OTA? 

Jason, have you tried your dual, simultaneous HDPack recordings while having the last thing tuned to be an OTA channel before going into standby?

If that is the case, we have been here before.....


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## Jason Kragt

jsanders said:


> Jason, have you tried your dual, simultaneous HDPack recordings while having the last thing tuned to be an OTA channel before going into standby?


I have a few experiments queued up over the next few nights and will post here if anything interesting happens. As luck with have it, my roommate had a late-night urge to watch TV last night and spoiled my first few experiments! :nono2:


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## jsanders

Jason Kragt said:


> I have a few experiments queued up over the next few nights and will post here if anything interesting happens.


Great! Let us know if you find anything.


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## jsanders

This problem is a real moving target. It happened to me again this morning. 

This time it happened to me without a timer at all. I was watching HDNet world report, and they showed a blurp about the "Arafat funeral in HD" at the end of the program (maybe one minute to go). That footage blows my mind, so I hit the "record" button on the remote. It asked me if I wanted to record the remainder of this program, I clicked "yes". The red light never went on. When I hit the banner guide, it showed "REC" in the upper right hand corner. It showed it was trying to record "Face to Face with Roy Firestone", the next program after HDNet World report. The timer fired, but it doesn't write the stream to disk.

Anyone ever seen that happen?


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## Jason Kragt

I was able to watch a ZSR in process tonight. The show was "Deconstruction: Science of Building a House: Foundation to Roof " on Discovery HD at 6pm. This was the second timer that was programmed for that time slot. The first timer was a daily record of "Will & Grace" at 6pm on WPIX (SD). 

So for me, I get a ZSR whenever these conditions are met:
1. Two programs are set to record at the same time.
2. The SECOND program that I selected to record is part of the HD Pak.

I could watch "Deconstruction: Science of Building a House: Foundation to Roof " fine live (as it was pseudo-recording), but could not perform any start over, rewind or fast-forward options. When I pressed "Start Over", it showed me the program live. When I pressed "Rewind", it showed me the program live. When I pressed "Skip Back", it showed me the program live. You get the idea. 

It sounds like they haven't quite mastered the management of overlapping timers using multiple tuners yet, at least in HD.


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## Mark Lamutt

Jason - I've been able to reproduce this exactly as you describe, except that the ZSR is ONLY happening for me on one of the Dish HD channels and only if the 2nd timer set is one of the Dish HD channels and is set to fire at exactly the same time as a 1st timer on another channel.


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## Grandude

Mark,
After two or so weeks with no 0sec recordings I got two last night.
I was watching a movie on HDnet and had timers set to record CSI ch9484 (CBSHDwest)
at 9PM and Without a Trace which followed on the same channel. Both buffers set to 0 for both timers.
When the movie finished, I switched to PVR and started to watch the recorded CSI from the beginning while it was still recording the end. This was about 945PM. I noticed that at 10PM the record light went out and didn't come on for my second timer set up so switched out of PVR to check and there was a 0sec listed. I then tried to start a record to end of Without a Trace and it set up a second 0sec recording.
Gave up and went back and finished watching CSI from the hard drive.

Model 921
Software L211HECD-N
Boot Vs. 140B
Flash VS F052

Regards,
Brian


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## Onawa

Last night had a very strange ZSR happen. I had two timers set up; one for “Joey” on OTA 08-1 and the other for “Wickedly Perfect” on SAT 6. I had the unit off and when I turned it on it was on the dreaded black channel 77 unknown event so I hit DVR and “Joey” was recording but the other timer showed it was recording a ZSR. I selected the ZSR and stopped the recording and turned to SAT 6 to manually start the recording so SWMBO wouldn’t kill me and the info bar at the top said it was already recoding although the DVR menu did not show it. After 10 minutes of trying to get it to record I gave up.

After the other timer was finished I did a front power button reboot.

One thing I have noticed lately is that almost every time I exit out of menus or stop watching a recorded show the channel switches to USA which is really strange because we never watch that channel.

I also had a whole string of timers setup on DIY and all of them were ZSR. I’ve done the hard drive test which only takes a minute due to the few shows I have recorded and that has not helped. Either has power cord reboots or smart card reboots.


----------



## Jason Kragt

Mark Lamutt said:


> Jason - I've been able to reproduce this exactly as you describe, except that the ZSR is ONLY happening for me on one of the Dish HD channels and only if the 2nd timer set is one of the Dish HD channels and is set to fire at exactly the same time as a 1st timer on another channel.


I'll keep looking for other combinations that cause a ZSR consistently. I know that I have had other ZSRs in the past when the timers were more staggered throughout the night.


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## FrankD1

Mark-

Are the Eldon people close to understanding what's causing the ZSRs, or are they still having difficulty reproducing the problem? I'm back to having multiple ZSRs per day, and if it would speed up the solution to this problem, I'd be willing to sacrifice my 921 to them for autopsy. They'd have MANY examples to look at (I would just need to stop deleting the ZSRs), and I would think the 921 has logfiles they could comb through to determine the cause. Or, if there are any USB Ethernet adapters that work with the 921, I could set up a telnet and FTP port for them to access.

I'm to the point where I'm backing up all my timers on my 721 and 501, which really boils my blood when I think about it, considering what I paid for the 921. I remember going through similar frustrations in the first days of my 501 and 721, but back then, I didn't have stable PVRs in the house that made such a stark example of how reliable the new PVR should be. Not to mention that the 921 isn't in its first days anymore.


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## jsanders

I don't think the ZSR has anything at all to do with timers. Here is something for you all to try. When you see a ZSR in progress, tune to the channel that is supposed to be recorded. Next, hit the "Browse" button to bring up the banner guide. Do you see the "REC" indicator in the upper right hand corner? That is telling you that the timer fired and i is "trying" to record.

If you are recording an OTA channel, try to tune to that channel. You will be able to watch it. Next, try to tune to a different OTA channel. It won't let you do it unless you "stop the recording".

If you see a ZSR happen while trying to record an OTA program, do a power button reboot. You will notice that the red light comes on when the machine comes back up, and it records the remainder of your program just fine. That does not seem to work with satellite based programs.

And the number one reason why ZSRs are not related to timers? I've had a ZSR WITHOUT USING A TIMER! Yep, got one just by hitting the record button on the remote.

These things all indicate that the timer works just fine. Maybe it is a latent error from viewing stations that do not do trick play or something.

Has anybody seen a ZSR that does not have any OTA reception??


----------



## FrankD1

jsanders said:


> I don't think the ZSR has anything at all to do with timers. Here is something for you all to try. When you see a ZSR in progress, tune to the channel that is supposed to be recorded. Next, hit the "Browse" button to bring up the banner guide. Do you see the "REC" indicator in the upper right hand corner? That is telling you that the timer fired and i is "trying" to record.
> 
> If you are recording an OTA channel, try to tune to that channel. You will be able to watch it. Next, try to tune to a different OTA channel. It won't let you do it unless you "stop the recording".
> 
> If you see a ZSR happen while trying to record an OTA program, do a power button reboot. You will notice that the red light comes on when the machine comes back up, and it records the remainder of your program just fine. That does not seem to work with satellite based programs.
> 
> And the number one reason why ZSRs are not related to timers? I've had a ZSR WITHOUT USING A TIMER! Yep, got one just by hitting the record button on the remote.
> 
> These things all indicate that the timer works just fine. Maybe it is a latent error from viewing stations that do not do trick play or something.
> 
> Has anybody seen a ZSR that does not have any OTA reception??


I agree the ZSRs are not related to the timers themselves... the fact that all my failed timers have ZSRs listed indicate the timers fire, but something prevents a successful recording. The banner does show REC on the corresponding channel when a ZSR is supposed to be recording, and I once rebooted after a ZSR and it did record the remainder of the show once the unit was back up. I can't speak a whole lot to the OTA relationship, because most of my timers are for SAT channels, but I have gotten ZSRs for both SATs and OTAs, SD and HD, standalone, simultaneous and concurrent recordings... in other words, I get them anywhere and anytime, with no apparent pattern.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Are you guys getting ZSRs when you only have 1 program recording (by timer or manually), or does it only happen when you have 2 programs recording?


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## FrankD1

Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you guys getting ZSRs when you only have 1 program recording (by timer or manually), or does it only happen when you have 2 programs recording?


For me, both.


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## Onawa

both


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## paulcdavis

Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you guys getting ZSRs when you only have 1 program recording (by timer or manually), or does it only happen when you have 2 programs recording?


Last night I had a ZSR for an OTA station (KMAX - 8-9pm) single isolated (no overlapping timers or timers just ending) weekly timer. I was, however watching playback of an HD recording at the time the red light came on.


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## boylehome

ZSR for Battle Star Galactica on OTA digital channel 36 KNVN. Timer was scheduled for a single event. Timer fired. Went to view while recording and found only a black screen and no audio. Discovered that my OTA antenna was rotated to the wrong direction. Moving the antenna into the correct position did not contribute to completing the rest of the recording as I had stopped the event. I could stop the recording but the channel was locked and I could not remove the ZSR until the timer reached the end. I couldn't set it to manually record.


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## Big D

ZSRs with both a single recording all by itself, two concurrent recordings and one after the other. There is no pattern as to when I will get them, however I usually get at least one a day. I have tried everything to eliminate them, disk checks, rescanning the OTA channels, rebooting, etc. Have to back up all recording on my 721 to insure I do not miss something.

This is by far the worst bug I have encountered on my one year old 921 and needs a top priority to get fixed.


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## BobMurdoch

I just can't figure out why this bug loves to hit King of Queens and Odyssey 5 so much, yet it never runs into Two back to back Smallville timers on HDNet on Thursdays.


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## Onawa

I have it hit the Smallvilles all the time. I even get ones that instead of listing it as an Unknown Event with 0 seconds it will show the name and episode info just like it recorded fine and when I hit play it pops up a message saying this show was not recorded. Very frustrating.


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## FrankD1

All right... I had 9 ZSRs this weekend, so I just got off the phone with E* ATR dept, and I'm supposed to be getting a call in the next 24 hours about swapping the unit out. I realize this is likely a software problem, so the replacement unit might do the same thing, but for whatever reason, I seem to be getting hit a lot harder than most people, so I figure odds are a new unit will have fewer ZSRs in the weeks or months it takes for E* to fix the problem. If anyone from E* reading this wants this probable goldmine of ZSR data routed differently than usual returns, speak now. Otherwise, I figure it'll arrive at E*, test OK for hardware, be re-imaged, and thrown into refurb inventory.


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## jsanders

Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you guys getting ZSRs when you only have 1 program recording (by timer or manually), or does it only happen when you have 2 programs recording?


I almost never do concurrent recordings, it has happened to me doing just single shot timers so far, and of course, it happened once without a timer, just hitting a record button.

Here is something else I noticed though... Once I get a ZSR, I will continue getting ZSRs until I reboot the machine. I record "The Pretender" at 4am on weekdays, that always records. That was just after a reboot as well though. By the time the nightly news comes around problems start to occur. If the "NBC Nightly News" fails to record, all subsequent shows seem to fail until I reboot. It acts almost like recording is being blocked in a semaphore or something.


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## KKlare

Things I have noted:

(1) Setting timers for the same time is likely to cause ZSR, perhaps even doing a manual record within a few seconds of a timer. I try to make sure that coincident times have a minute offset. Record a minute before may be blocked by recording a program before it, so it you may need to explictily set the start time and maybe the prior program end time.

(2) If you select an OTA channel and record or even view it and it is not in the current favorite list, you will likely not get the correct banner while recording nor the info at all.

(3) When deleting a program and 2 timers are running, selecting the next to view one may cause it to stop. Maybe it would be safer to select one recording program, pause and go back and delete the old recording.

(4) Sure would like to get the banner to show the correct time left. It is often missing or for the current offering on the channel.


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## Onawa

I'd love to get a pop up like the DVR 500's that asks you if you realy want to stop recording when you hit stop instead of just stopping it (that is when hitting stop to stop it actually stops it )

Now that you mention it I do get a long string of ZSR if I haven't rebooted.


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## Mark Lamutt

KKlare - could you expound on #2 and #3 in a new thread, please? I'm not quite sure what you mean by "correct banner" and "selecting the next one to view".


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## Loquitur

Hi!

I had another ZSR last night with CSI-NY on CBS-HD, which is the show repeatedly victimized by this phenomenon. I definitely have a pattern going on here and would like to provide the data but I don't know how to tell which timer is set to fire or which timer screwed up. I have no OTA so only my sat timers are involved and I do have multiple programs being recorded on Wednesday evenings. How do I get this info? 

Susan


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## Mark Lamutt

Susan, do you have another timer set to fire at the same time as CSI-NY? If so, that's the known condition that I can replicate that will force a ZSR - if you have 2 timers set to fire simultaneously, with one of them firing on a Dish HD channel, you'll get a ZSR from the timer on the Dish HD channel.

Menu-7 will show your list of timers set to record.


----------



## Loquitur

Hi Mark!

This is my list of recordings for Wednesdays. All of them recorded fine last night except for the ZSR on CBS-HD at 10:00:

8:00 - 9:00 NBC and ABC
9:00 - 10:00 NBC and ABC
10:00 - 11:00 NBC and CBS-HD
11:00 - 12:00 Bravo

It just dawned on me this morning that this is happening every week with CBS-HD/CSI-NY. I didn't give it much of a second thought because its not my favorite show and I have tons of other stuff to watch.

I also know from prior experience that I should now reboot or else my timers for tonight might not fire at all, which is a different animal from the ZSR. The other warning that I get which is an indication that I'd better reboot is that the receiver is unresponsive to the remote and I have to keep pushing the buttons to get an on screen response. 

I know the menu 7 has a list of the timers but does it show there somewhere whether it is the main tuner or the other tuner set to fire? 

Susan


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## Mark Lamutt

I don't believe it makes any difference which tuner is used for recording. The 10-11 timeslot will give you a ZSR everytime on CBS-HD currently. Next week, try starting the CBS-HD timer a minute early or a minute late. That may cure it.


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## FrankD1

Mark Lamutt said:


> I don't believe it makes any difference which tuner is used for recording. The 10-11 timeslot will give you a ZSR everytime on CBS-HD currently. Next week, try starting the CBS-HD timer a minute early or a minute late. That may cure it.


You seem certain about the ZSR with CBS-HD. Does that mean you and/or E* have a bead on what's causing the ZSRs?


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## Mark Lamutt

Part of it, but my statement is based on my own testing. If you have 2 timers firing at the same time, with one of them being set to fire on one of the Dish HD channels, you are very likely to end up with a ZSR for the event from the Dish HD channel. Most of my testing indicates that it primarily happens in this case if the Dish HD channel is set as the 2nd timer, but not always.


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## jsanders

Mark Lamutt said:


> Part of it, but my statement is based on my own testing. If you have 2 timers firing at the same time, with one of them being set to fire on one of the Dish HD channels, you are very likely to end up with a ZSR for the event from the Dish HD channel. Most of my testing indicates that it primarily happens in this case if the Dish HD channel is set as the 2nd timer, but not always.


That might well be enough for them to fix it for everyone Mark! The problem isn't necessarily about the timers firing, but that you have found a scenario using timers is very good. If they can find out *why* that second timer can't write to the video stream to the disk when this happens, I think it will have a good chance at fixing all of the scenarios. They just need to see what blocks the disk archiving.


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## Jerry G

Hardware: L2111HECD
Switch 64

I just tried to watch The West Wing recorded Wed night from NBC following a recording of Lost on ABC. No overlap of timers. Lost was set for 7:59 to 8:59. West Wing on NBC was set for 9:00 to 10:02. The West Wing wasn't recorded. It's listed as 0 seconds and when I tried to play it, I got a message that it wasn't recorded. I'm so VERY PISSED OFF. The one show I look forward to wasn't recorded. I'm so angry I'm ready to trash Dish and my 921 and move to DirecTV. I'm so pissed. I've set up this very same recording sequence last week and had no problems. I saw the 921 stop recording at 8:59 and saw the red light come back on at 9:00. It stayed on. I was watching the first few minutes of the West Wing on my 811 and it was being received just fine, so there was no transmission problems from NBC. The 921 was "powered down" during the recording as it always is when I used it to record something via a timer.

I'm so angry that this happened. If I can't count on the 921 being able to record an OTA program given how much I baby it and do everything possible to not stress it out, it's a totally useless piece of crap to me. If this happens again, I'm gone from Dish. I'd rather have DirecTV's overcompressed but recordable HD that Dish's unreliable hardware. This is crap and the 921 need to be reliable or it's worth absolutely NOTHING to me.


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## boylehome

Jerry G, what is even worse, this was a bug that afflicted previous versions and the the L2.11 was supposed to FIX it.  Now it ZSR's, jitters, shakes and shimmies. What havoc will occur with the next software version? :nono2:


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## Jerry G

Jerry G said:


> Hardware: L2111HECD
> Switch 64
> 
> I just tried to watch The West Wing recorded Wed night from NBC following a recording of Lost on ABC. No overlap of timers. Lost was set for 7:59 to 8:59. West Wing on NBC was set for 9:00 to 10:02. The West Wing wasn't recorded. It's listed as 0 seconds and when I tried to play it, I got a message that it wasn't recorded. I'm so VERY PISSED OFF. The one show I look forward to wasn't recorded. I'm so angry I'm ready to trash Dish and my 921 and move to DirecTV. I'm so pissed. I've set up this very same recording sequence last week and had no problems. I saw the 921 stop recording at 8:59 and saw the red light come back on at 9:00. It stayed on. I was watching the first few minutes of the West Wing on my 811 and it was being received just fine, so there was no transmission problems from NBC. The 921 was "powered down" during the recording as it always is when I used it to record something via a timer.
> 
> I'm so angry that this happened. If I can't count on the 921 being able to record an OTA program given how much I baby it and do everything possible to not stress it out, it's a totally useless piece of crap to me. If this happens again, I'm gone from Dish. I'd rather have DirecTV's overcompressed but recordable HD that Dish's unreliable hardware. This is crap and the 921 need to be reliable or it's worth absolutely NOTHING to me.


I figured out what the problem was.

I set up another timed recording of NBC and it also ended up being a zero second recording, even though the red recording light was on. I then actually tuned to KNBC and there was no picture or sound even though there was a high signal strength. I then tuned to KNBC (Los Angeles) on my 811 and discovered that since the last time I watched and recorded KNBC, they changed their PIP call letters and added a subchannel. The 811 automatically updated itself, but the 921 didn't. I then deleted KNBC from the 921 and readded it. This time, it showed the new PIP call letters and the main channel and the subchannel. I then got a picture when I tuned to it and was able to set up a timed recording that worked.

So, the 921 is NOT capable of updating it's OTA channel information if the station adds a subchannel or changes it's call letters. But the 811 is capable or making these changes automatically. This is going to be a significant problem for 921 users. If you intent to record OTA on a 921, you better check to make sure that you're still receiving that channel. If the channel makes certain changes between the time you set a timer and the time the timer fires, you may not get any recording. This is not how a HD PRV should work. The user shouldn't be required to have to jump through these kinds of hoops with a PVR. How is the average Joe 6 Pack going to figure out this kind of 921 nightmare? Meanwhile, I missed an episode of the only network show I really want to see. And I'm sure than when the reruns occur, I'll forget that I missed this episode and won't record it. Thanks for nothing Dish and Eldon.

As soon as DirecTV adds more birds and improves the quality of their HD channels (or Voom puts out a decent HD PVR), I'm dumping Dish and all my Dish equipment and moving over to DirecTV or Voom. Enough with this forever problematic 921!


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## jsanders

What you just described Jerry G is pure gold! Have you written that up as a bug report?? I don't want that one to get lost. PLEASE write it as a bug report if you haven't already. I'm going to just delete all of my channels tonight and re-scan to see if anything changes! I think as a stop gap that comment at least should be stickied as an announcement to everyone. That way the Joe six pack will at least have a fighting chance!

I'm with you on the switching idea! If Voom leases their pvr, I would consider that switch, otherwise, I will wait for the D* MPEG-4 DVR to come out. Makes no sense to do it now.

Thanks for your insights!


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## Onawa

I did delete and re-scan mine and it seemed to help most of the time.


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## PAUL_JK

I'm in the Washington/Baltimore area. I had 2 timers set last night (1/14):

#1 - Manual OTA (weekly) Timer set to 009-01 WUSA
Signal Strength - 125
Start Time - 8:00pm
End Time - 9:00pm
Start Early - 0 min
End Late - 0 min

#2 - One time timer set to SciFi from Menu
Start Time - 9:00pm
End Time - 11:00pm
Start Early - 1 min
End Late - 3 min

HW Version: L211HEED-N
Switch Setup - Dish 500 with DishPro Quad 

I was watching the SciFi channel during both the first and second recordings. I saw the timer warning icon flash and the recording light came on at 8pm and stayed on till after 11pm. I stopped the last timer manually at 11:01. When I checked the recordings, the OTA recording from timer #1 had 0 minutes. I knew I had the 1 minute overlap on the second timer, but I thought I'd see what would happpen. I thought it might cause a problem with the second recording, but it didn't - that was fine. I hope this can be fixed. This is the third program I have lost due to ZSR. 

I would really like to see an option added to let me select whether or not I want the update, like with my 811 When/if I ever get one that works, I would like to lock out further updates.


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## Big D

I was getting more ZSRs than not on my OTA recordings starting about one week after L211 downloaded. I did a rescan of my OTA stations after my initial reboot with the new software which lasted about 1 week and then they started, sometimes 2 or 3 a night, every night without fail. To try a fix, I deleted all of my OTA stations and rescanned them in. I did a disk check, it took about 2 hours and it showed it was successful. Also each night before I start any recording of OTA programming, I do a power plug reboot.

Results: I have not had a ZSR since. There is no doubt that in my case the workaround was to delete and rescan my OTA channels in and to do a reboot each night. I do not remember ever getting a ZSR on a sat channel, I am keeping an eye out for one because if that happens I am not sure what I would do to combat it.

Also, I get the jitters often on playback, a reboot always clears up a replay that was jittering before the reboot.


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## mgamber

1. What is the hardware version of your 921?

L211HEED-N

2. What is your switch setup? Please provide the details of your LNBs, switches, separators, adaptors, diplexors, etc. 

Dish 500 Quad LNB. Also have a 721 connected. No other swithes. Switch Matrix shows 1=119 and 2=110 Same on both inputs.

No Diplexors. Signal strength is good.

3. The next time your 921 records a 0 second recording, please post your timer information in as much excrutiatung detail as you possibly can, down to the level of including arrow commands, select commands, how you set your timer, minutes early, late, channel, program, last time you manually rebooted your 921, other timers firing, etc. Literally everything that you can possibly think of, and then more. 

I rebooted yesterday via a plug pull. I had several timers set in a row to record battlestar galactica on Scifi, Carnivale on HBOHD, Dennis Miller on CNBC and Jonny Zero on KRIVHD. They all fired with no problems. But, while some of the shows were recording (I think 2 channels at once) I set a timer for SHOHD later that night. I was also watching a HD program at the time. Today I checked the DVR list and the SHOHD recording was zero.

Another zero incident happend on Monster Garage on DISC. But there had been no activity for a long time (week) when I got this one.


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## completelymobile

This is what happens to my 921:

"So for me, I get a ZSR whenever these conditions are met:
1. Two programs are set to record at the same time.
2. The SECOND program that I selected to record is part of the HD Pak."

SW Version: L211HEED-N
Flash: F053
Boot: 150 B
Dish Pro Quad fed directly to my 921

I've had the ZSR's hit roughly 5 times in the past 2 weeks. Hope this helps ... and by the way I still love having a 921 even with the bugs it still blows away my 721's picture!  

Mike


----------



## alipka

1. What is the hardware version of your 921?

L211HECD-N

2. What is your switch setup? Please provide the details of your LNBs, switches, separators, adaptors, diplexors, etc. 

Dish 500 SW64; also have Dish 300 hooked up for 61.5 but not using it, obviously.

No Diplexors. Signal strength is good.

3. The next time your 921 records a 0 second recording, please post your timer information in as much excrutiatung detail as you possibly can, down to the level of including arrow commands, select commands, how you set your timer, minutes early, late, channel, program, last time you manually rebooted your 921, other timers firing, etc. Literally everything that you can possibly think of, and then more. 

I rebooted a week ago via smartcard reset. Have had one or two timers for SD events on satellite stations record successfully since then. Had set a timer for WPSG-DT Philadelphia, channel 57-1, to record Star Trek:Enterprise for Friday January 14. I checked it today and it shows 0 second recording.


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## NukeBug

The only ZTR's that I have had (so far) are on local OTA CBS CSI and Wthout A Trace and Joan of Arcadia (all in HD).... Normal preset timers, with concurrent recordings. I also do not have channel info on the OTA since I do not subscribe to locals on dish. 
Also, FOX-W keeps showing No Information Available on the Guide.

Just a FEW more things to make me glad that I bought a $1000 POS mere weeks before the price drop and makes me that more convinced that I will be switching to Direct as soon as they have a better TiVo HD.

Dish 921 to a DishPro Quad, better than 110 signal on 119 and 110


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## moviegoerman

Onawa said:


> I did delete and re-scan mine and it seemed to help most of the time.


I only had to do a full scan and it worked for me. Most of the channels that started failing after L211 just started working again. I haven't had a ZSR since.

Another co-worker had noticed the same problem and stopped using it until I told him how I fixed mine. He tried it and then his started working again too.

I don't know how much longer it will work, but I'm glad I'm not missing most of my recordings anymore. The co-worker is ditching the dish when he moves into his new house. He's decided to go the cable route this time around.


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## Jim_R

Had my first one last night - the Colts/Steelers game on CBS- HD OTA.  ZSR, complete with 'unwatchable' and 'please delete'. My OTA signal strength is 120. I set the timer via the Guide, watched the red light go on, then turned off the receiver via the remote. The red recording light remained on. Before after times were standard. No change in station call letters, etc. No other timers set. I have a legacy quad dish 500 with a Sw-21s in line to add 61.5 to each feed. Hardware version in signature below. I take it no rebooting or unplugging, or hard disk error checking returns these recordings to a watchable status?


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## Spartan

For two sundays in a row now HD recordings of Huff on Showtime showed 0 minutes. I have been recording this show now for 2 months with a recurring recording and did not have this problem. Last week the receiver was set to record 2 events at the same time, Huff on Showtime HD and Carnivale on HBO HD. Carnivale recorded OK, Huff was 0 seconds. Last night I tried recording only Huff and I still got 0 minutes, even though the red light indicating recording taking place was on. I tried to watch the show 15 minutes after it started when I noticed that it was not being recorded even ghoug the red led was on. Then I tried to rewind the live program and I was not able to rewind or even pause the show. I tried the 10 second backward skip which the receiver usually does right away and that did not work immediately. Then about 30 seconds later the little arrow indicating 10 seconds backward skip popped up but did nothing. This was a first for me. The receiver was acting as a computer would when all its memory is used and it starts swapping memory with the hard drive slowing everything down to a crawl. 

SW Version: L211HEED-N
Flash: F053
Boot: 150 B

I'm also having problems with analog audio disappearing for about 10 seconds at a time when watching a recording and dolby digital audio popping in and out all the time making dd audio useless. Even though I'm paying for the full warranty on all my equipment, advanced tech after two phone calls still will not replace my receiver, which is now the third 921. I already had 2 others replaced for other problems. I am not a happy camper.


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## KKlare

KKlare said:


> Things I have noted:
> (1) Setting timers for the same time is likely to cause ZSR, perhaps even doing a manual record within a few seconds of a timer. I try to make sure that coincident times have a minute offset. Record a minute before may be blocked by recording a program before it, so it you may need to explictily set the start time and maybe the prior program end time.
> 
> (2) If you select an OTA channel and record or even view it and it is not in the current favorite list, you will likely not get the correct banner while recording nor the info at all.
> 
> (3) When deleting a program and 2 timers are running, selecting the next to view one may cause it to stop. Maybe it would be safer to select one recording program, pause and go back and delete the old recording.
> 
> (4) Sure would like to get the banner to show the correct time left. It is often missing or for the current offering on the channel.





Mark Lamutt said:


> KKlare - could you expound on #2 and #3 in a new thread, please? I'm not quite sure what you mean by "correct banner" and "selecting the next one to view".


(2) Not sure what I meant either. Probably about get the nonexistant channel number while you record and are looking back. Possibly about have no info on OTA channels from the Info button while playing although it was there on the guide and in the DVR select.

Note, you cannot up or down while a favorite that has no allowed channels is selected. I keep one for Showtime freebies. Is this related to down-but-no up on OTA channels?

(3) The question asked when "deleting" a recording and having 2 timers active has changed and asks which new recording you want to stop. BE CAREFUL. It used to throw you into one of them. The only way out is to answer NO, wait a while, and select any other recording including those running. Then you can pause and DVR select the about-to-be-deleted recording and delete it. Whew.

BTW, I've only had about one ZSR in the last month. I believe it is because I am careful about checking for coincident recording start time.

Added thought: to cure the dark overlay after using Info, most of the time, just power off and back on.

Been spending my time trying to reduce my backlog of recordings--it has been a struggle to get to 6 hr of HD left when most of it is SD.


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## Ron Barry

Well I found out last night that my wife had been getting the 0 second recordings and I saw the first one last night. In this case here is what I think caused it. 

1) I have does some OTA work when I added my 921 and it has resulted in lower OTA strength. (Need to work it out). Well since then occassionally one of my OTA channels drops off the Guide. In this case it is NBC 04 in La. 

2) With this case I added it manually and named it NBC. What seems to happen with the 921 is that it disappears and then reappears, but in the case there is no longer any video or audio signal with it. 

3) When the timer fires off, I am sure it sees no signal so stops. 

4) I remove the channel and then do an DTV scan and it appears agains as NBC-LA. It also stays on the favorites list even though I previous manually named it to NBC. 

Thoughts
-----------

1) Problem might be related to the fact I manually added the channel and named it NBC. 

2) Problem could happen by the channel getting dropped and then found again. 

Maybe I need to remove all these channels and do Automatic Scan.


----------



## Skerdog

I am having many ZSR's and figured I would post my info here in hopes of helping get a solution.

SW L211HEED - N
Boot 150B
Flash F053

I had timers set from the guide for 4 shows last night. Two worked and 2 were ZSR.

Timer 1 Channel 013-01 KTRK 6:59 to 8:00 Lost got a ZSR
Timer 2 Channel 8373 KRIV 7:00 to 7:30 recorded fine
Timer 3 Channel 8372 KPRC 7:59 to 9:00 West Wing got a ZSR
Timer 4 Channel 013-01 KTRK 8:00 to 9:00 Alias recorded fine

I did a power cord reboot last night in hopes of fixing the problem. Tonight I had one timer set for Joey channel 8372 from 7:00 to 7:30. The banner at he top says it is recording, but it is a ZSR on the PTV screen and the red light is not on. I can press the record button on the remote and it will say record on the screen, but the red light does not come on and it is not recording.


----------



## rkwak

CA ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Smart Card: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Boot: 150B
Flash: F053
SW: L211HEED-N
DPP Twin/DPP44/Separator

I had three ZSR's today. The first one was a 7am timer for ESPNHD (921 in standby) with no other timers set, and the second two were both 9pm timers for OTA 2-1 (CBS) and 242 (NBC). At around 9:05pm I went to DVR to watch one of the 9pm shows from the beginning and noticed that both timer recordings were listed as "Unknown Record" with durations of 0. I deleted each, but when I tuned in to each channel, they still showed the "Record" message even though the red record light on the front of the unit was not on and nothing showed in the DVR menu as being recorded.

*receiver information deleted by Mark - that info really shouldn't be posted in public messages. I'll ask for it privately when sending direct support requests to the 921 team.*


----------



## slimoli

Had my first ZSR last night. Set 2 timers via guide for 2 hd programs (HDNMV and HDHBO) starting the same time. HBO was recorded OK and HDNET MOVIES produced a zero recording. My receiver is only 3 weeks old and I had ALL the major bugs reported here. The ZSR was the only one missing!

SW L211 HEED
FLASH F054
BOOT 150B


----------



## slimoli

Mark:

I think I was able to determine when the ZSR occurs. I did some experiments with 6 timers set through the guide where 2 satellite HD programs should be recorded starting the same time. I got 3 out of 6 programs OK and 3 with ZSR. I think the key is "2 satellite programs recordings set through the guide starting at the same time".I am not sure if being HD or SD will make any difference but the fact is I get ZSR in one of the programs every time I do this.

Hope this can help to zero in in something more specific.

Sergio

BOOT 150B
FLASH F054
SW l211 HEED


----------



## madbrain

I got my first one too on TNTHD a couple days ago - recording of law & order.

I don't know if that matters or not, but a couple of days ago, I marked one of my shows "protected" for the first time, and my hard drive was near full. Prior to that, I had never had a ZSR. It might be a coincidence, or it might be related to the bug.

Do you guys have protected recordings or not when you get ZSRs ?
And is the HD near full too ?


----------



## KKlare

I got 3 ZSR on 1/29. One reported channel 263 and was probaby 180. Then others reported 9422 and 9423 and may have been. They all said 12/31 4:59 PM. That's weird, especially considering I cleared the machine a week ago and did a factory reset. Of course, I got back some searches after deleting all.


----------



## lujan

KKlare said:


> I got 3 ZSR on 1/29. One reported channel 263 and was probaby 180. Then others reported 9422 and 9423 and may have been. They all said 12/31 4:59 PM. That's weird, especially considering I cleared the machine a week ago and did a factory reset. Of course, I got back some searches after deleting all.


The only ZSR I have ever seen were because of poor signals on OTA stations. Was your ZSR on an OTA DT station? If so, it was probably because of the signal and not the 921.


----------



## tnsprin

lujan said:


> The only ZSR I have ever seen were because of poor signals on OTA stations. Was your ZSR on an OTA DT station? If so, it was probably because of the signal and not the 921.


Other conditions CAN cause it. The 1st one I posted, I could see it when i tried to monitor it live, and yet ended up with a ZSR. The others I posted are probably because of signal problems.


----------



## ebaltz

L211-HECD-N with boot version 150b
Had my first 0-second recording last night. Was recording a show on a Dish local channel, while watching OTA HD AMerican Idol on the 2nd tuner. Red light was on for the entire hour. When I went to watch my recorded show, go the message it didn't record and showed 0 seconds for time in the recorded list.


----------



## goaliebob99

im taking pictures of my zero second recording.. hope this will help you all.. boot versons and it in action.. and all.. just got to wait till tom when the jerry springer timer does not fire..


----------



## Jerry G

Do the Eldon engineers have the slightest clue as to how they caused the zero second recording fiasco and how they will fix it and when?


----------



## tnsprin

Jerry G said:


> Do the Eldon engineers have the slightest clue as to how they caused the zero second recording fiasco and how they will fix it and when?


Considering a fix was mentioned in the current beta, they at least know some conditions that cause the problem and are working on a fix.


----------



## hgeyer

Dish DVR 921; boot version 150b; Flash version F053; SW Version L211HEED-N
LNB - Dish 500 DP Quad

I started getting ZTRs on 1/27/05, I've had the unit since 11/04

I believe that the ZTR's occur when I have overlapping timers. Most recently (tonight), I was trying to record The Apprentice on OTA 005-01. The PVR listing for this ZTR was "261 PTV Unknown Program".


----------



## korek

I've had a weekly timer set to record an OTA HD program on KBHK 44-001 with signal strength of 120-125 since 211 came out. Friday Feb 4th was the first time I got a 0 second recording. I have a Dish 500 with 2 SW-21s.

- Brian
___________________
Dish 500 with 2 SW-21
boot version 140B
flash version F052
SW version L211HECD-N


----------



## boylehome

Unit 921, Boot:150B, Flash Version:F054, SW Version: L211 HEED-N

This was a terrestrial/OTA recorded event but the switch is a DPP44 with a single cable with separator.

Weekly timer for NYPD blue on KRCR-ABC digital 034-01 02-08-05 at 10:00PM.

KRCR lacks the equipment (STILL) for PSIP and what the 921 shows as it's channel number is Rf34.

DVR RECORD EVENT banner shows: 290PTV - NR AO[SC] - 0 sec. 
DVR Record Event shows cell shows: 02/08 Unknown Recorded Event. Secondary menu shows, "Unknown Recorded Event" in light blue with three cell rows showing: Las Vegas (-31680 min); Medium (60 min); NCN News (31620 min). I don't even have channel 290 and the information shown is for NBC.

There were three other times that preceded the ZSR they were for the same channel and they worked fine. The weekly timer for NYPD is about three weeks old and fired properly in the past like the other timers that worked just fine for the same channel.

I did not try to view the program because the last time I tried to view a ZSR-Unknown Recorded Event, It caused the 921 to freeze and I had to reboot which caused a total loss of every DVR event.

Of course my 721 recorded the event without out a problem. It shares the same switch but the DVR was lil.


----------



## SteveB

Had three zero recordings of OTA KNBC. Found that the channel was black when view directly. Deleted and re-scanned the station. Fixed the problem. KNBC apparently added a second channel.


----------



## Jerry G

SteveB said:


> Had three zero recordings of OTA KNBC. Found that the channel was black when view directly. Deleted and re-scanned the station. Fixed the problem. KNBC apparently added a second channel.


Read my earlier post about KNBC. It explains what happened. The second channel was added a while ago. Last week, KNBC stopped their PSIP. They then sent it again. Each time they change, it requires that KNBC be deleted and then added to the 921. Very bad functionality in the way the 921 handles this situation.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Sorry, Jerry, but your statement about the bad functionality of the way the 921 handles this makes me laugh because the 811 people are saying exactly the same thing about the 811 doing constant monitoring of the PSIP data to catch these changes. 

The PSIP mess right now is really screwing up a lot of people...but fortunately it's a temporary mess.


----------



## UpOnTheMountain

Getting frequent ZSRs - appear to be coming from having two HD programs being recorded at the same start time with at least one timer at tail of at least one of the two HD recordings.

Current programing is causing this to happen more often for our viewing habits.

CBSHD is the most frequently effected channel.
The second channel is most frequently local Roanoke VA OTA channel 7, but it is just as likely to happen on HBOHD, SHOHD ... key for me appears to be 
2 HD programs starting at same time
+ at least one recording starting directly after one of those recordings

is quite frustrating.


----------



## Smokeball

boylehome said:


> Unit 921, Boot:150B, Flash Version:F054, SW Version: L211 HEED-N
> 
> This was a terrestrial/OTA recorded event but the switch is a DPP44 with a single cable with separator.
> 
> Weekly timer for NYPD blue on KRCR-ABC digital 034-01 02-08-05 at 10:00PM.
> 
> KRCR lacks the equipment (STILL) for PSIP and what the 921 shows as it's channel number is Rf34.
> 
> DVR RECORD EVENT banner shows: 290PTV - NR AO[SC] - 0 sec.
> DVR Record Event shows cell shows: 02/08 Unknown Recorded Event. Secondary menu shows, "Unknown Recorded Event" in light blue with three cell rows showing: Las Vegas (-31680 min); Medium (60 min); NCN News (31620 min). I don't even have channel 290 and the information shown is for NBC.
> 
> There were three other times that preceded the ZSR they were for the same channel and they worked fine. The weekly timer for NYPD is about three weeks old and fired properly in the past like the other timers that worked just fine for the same channel.
> 
> I did not try to view the program because the last time I tried to view a ZSR-Unknown Recorded Event, It caused the 921 to freeze and I had to reboot which caused a total loss of every DVR event.
> 
> Of course my 721 recorded the event without out a problem. It shares the same switch but the DVR was lil.


This is almost identical to what I was about to report.

My hardware is different so in case that has something to do with all of this:

PVR: 2 each 921s, 1 each 721, and a 301.
Switches: 2 DishPro 34s (piggybacked).
Satellites: 1 Quad pointing to 110/119 ; 1 Dual pointing to 61.5

#1 921 Boot: 140B, Flash Version: F052, SW Version: L211 HECD-N (ZSR Problems)
#2 921 Boot: 140B, Flash Version: F052, SW Version: L211 HECD-N (No ZSR problems but this is my wife's DVR and she rarely sets a timer. When she does it is usually a one time event.)

Similar problem(s) as reported by "boylehome". So I'll just say, "DITTO". :nono2:

It seems when an OTA MANUAL TIMER is recording, the 921 cannot successfully trigger a HDTV satellite channel recording (I'm only using my 921 for HDTV - have a 721 for SD). Therefore I have had to setup a Manual Timer for a satellite HDTV program so it starts before and ends after my OTA MANUAL timer. This means I record one or more programs I'm really not interested in that come on prior to the HDTV satellite program I desire.

When I violate this "rule?" I get *ZSRs* ... I think? lol


----------



## KKlare

I tried the hypothesis that the ZSR was due to locks being enabled and that it could not get to some channels even though it was not "290" or so. We had a map (correspondence) for the OTA and the 290's at one time.

Nope, still getting them. Will try the hypothesis that leaving it on HBO-HD or the like prevents switching to HDNet. Make last channel and PIP an SD satellite?

Another thing to try is starting earlier so there is no conflict with the overnight reboot at 1 AM MST. Machine was manually rebooted that day, anyway.

BTW, I have always tried to be careful about not starting 2 recordings at once including the extensions like 1 min early -- better to change time and set 0 minutes.

-Ken


----------



## Smokeball

I have been getting numerous ZSRs on my oldest 921 for the last month or so. A friend of mine who just got a new 921 last month has not had problems with ZSRs even though he has set his timers the same as I have set mine.

We have checked and we both have the same BOOT, FLASH, and SW VERSIONs:

BOOT: 140B
FLASH: F052
SW: L-211 HECD-N

His feeds are directly from his DISH Antenna and his OTA to his 921 while my feeds go through piggy-backed DPP34s. We have wondered if the switch setups might explain the different experiences.

It also crossed my mind that we might have differences in our 921s. I own many computers all using the same cases (enclosures) but the "guts" in each are completely different ... maybe there is a difference between the early 921s and the later versions?

Since I own both an older 921 (located in my home office) that is having ZSR problems and a newer one (located in my home Media Room) that may or may not have ZSR problems I decided to do a test.

I've setup the following timers on both of my 921s.

Old 921 received in June, 2004.
New 921 received in late November, 2004.

The OTA stations (013-01 & 025-01) were setup using the Manual Timer: MENU / 7 COMMAND.
The HDTV station (9422 HDNET) recordings were setup directly from the GUIDE (All Channels): GUIDE / ENTER COMMAND.

Here are the results:

Timer 0625-1min to 0650+3min [025-01]
Old 921 - OK New 921 - OK

Timer 0630-1min to 0700+3min [9422]
Old 921 - OK New 921 - OK

Timer 0700-1min to 0745+3min [013-01] 
Old 921 - OK New 921 - OK

Timer 0730-1min to 0800+3min [9422] 
*Old 921 - ZSR* New 921 - OK

Timer 0745-1min to 0800+3min [025-01] 
*Old 921 - ZSR* New 921 - OK

Timer 0800-1min to 0830+3min [9422] 
*Old 921 - ZSR* New 921 - OK

*Notice the overlap of timers and the switching from a Satellite HD channel to an OTA HD channel and vice-versa.

Conclusion:

The newest 921 recorded all timers without fail.
The oldest 921 recorded the first 3 timers OK but produced ZSRs on the last 3!

There must be some component difference between the 921s that were first delivered (got mine in June, 2004) and the newer model 921s (my newest 921 delivered in late November 2004).

Hopefully this information will help DISH determine the cause of the ZSRs. I will forward this information to them.


----------



## Smokeball

Roll Out of SW Version L-212 very soon.

Roll Out of SW Version L-213 projected for March, 2005 will address the ZSR problem. /fingers crossed/


----------



## ckgrick

921 was purchased in January 2005. Only one ZSR to date, but similar to previous posts - ZSR on CBSHD while another recording set for a SD program at the same time. Receiver was not functioning the next morning requiring a reboot. SD program recorded, HD a ZSR. Have not had a problem since (10 days). Reboot seems to have also fixed the jitters problem so far.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Hm.. I may give up on the King of Queens in HD since I also record Alias at the same time on SD ABC channel. As of today I still have the west coast feed for CBS so I'll just grab that one workaround the problem for now. It's been recording the show OK the past few weeks, but the Timers are getting screwed up (don't know if it is related or not) as the timers won't sort by action order anymore without a reboot.


----------



## ckgrick

My second ZSR last night. SD NBC at 8PM and CBSHD at 8PM. No HDCBS. SD ABC and HDCBS both at 9PM recorded fine. I'm guessing the 9PM difference was that the the HDCBS was set for the first turner and the ASR at 8PM was on the second. I'll try to always put the HD recording on the first turner and offset the start times in the furture.

DISH 500; SW64; DISH 300 (for locals & CBSHD)

Boot 150B
Flash F053
SW L211HEED-N


----------



## hgeyer

Dish DVR 921; boot version 150b; Flash version F053; SW Version L211HEED-N
LNB - Dish 500 DP Quad
-----------------------------------------
I've been able to avoid ZTRs for the past few weeks by avoiding back-to-back recordings, but was able to isolate the following circumstances that resulted in a ZTR:

1. Was viewing an OTA-HD recording of a show that viewed earlier in the day (007-01: ABC Chicago - Desperate Housewives).

2. Paused the recording, and set timer to record OTA-HD program that would have started while viewing the recorded show (10PM local news - also 007-01).

3. Continued viewing Desperate Housewives, local news timer went ZTR. Afterwards, system got very sluggish and self-rebooted about 20 minutes later. Thankfully, recorded programs didn't erase.


----------



## boylehome

hgeyer said:


> Dish DVR 921; boot version 150b; Flash version F053; SW Version L211HEED-N
> LNB - Dish 500 DP Quad
> -----------------------------------------
> I've been able to avoid ZTRs for the past few weeks by avoiding back-to-back recordings, but was able to isolate the following circumstances that resulted in a ZTR:
> 
> 1. Was viewing an OTA-HD recording of a show that viewed earlier in the day (007-01: ABC Chicago - Desperate Housewives).
> 
> 2. Paused the recording, and set timer to record OTA-HD program that would have started while viewing the recorded show (10PM local news - also 007-01).
> 
> 3. Continued viewing Desperate Housewives, local news timer went ZTR. Afterwards, system got very sluggish and self-rebooted about 20 minutes later. Thankfully, recorded programs didn't erase.


Isn't it SAD that we have to RESORT to such measures just to get the programs recorded? I had accidentally set up two timers for the same program last night, the Saturday Night Live special. Both timers fired. I realized that I had two timers going for the same thing when I went into the DVR menu. I stopped the one that was listed below the other and then erased it. The first one showed that it was still recording. This morning I found that there was nothing listed for this program at all. It disappeared completely! This is a new one for me.


----------



## dawson5

Last night, I had tech support on the phone regarding my problem only getting HD channels. He had me do a power cord reboot, then manually go through the satellite/transponder configurations and check signal. We then tried a check switch and it started running the 28 tests and we cancelled out of it. He came to the conclusion that the switch(es) might be bad and he was going to send out local Dish techs. I turned the receiver and the TV off and it's been off until now.

Today, my 2-2:30 timer fired. I know the record light was on at one point.
Tonight, my 6-6:30 timer fired, I saw the record light on until 6:30.

I turned the TV on and it said "acquiring signal" on channel 180 (not the channel for the timer, but the last channel it was on last night. I went to the DVR menu to see if the timers for today were able to record and the 2PM one is listed as 234 minutes and the 6PM one is a ZSR. My first one.

I plugged the 301 into one of the cables from the 921 and it works fine.

What do I do with this ZSR? I've read where people messing with them can erase their hard drives. Should I just delete it?

DP Dual
2 34 switches
Boot 150B
Flash F053
L211 HEED-N
301 and 510


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Just delete it. Don't try to watch it.


----------



## DonLandis

Well, I had used the 921 for the first time since mid December to record a program. The reason I stopped using the 921 had to do with jitters and the fact that the receiver was rendered useless with these jitters on ever program I watched after L211 download.
So just to see what was what, I set a timer to record 6PM news Thursday. It failed to record with this "ZSR" listing. Mark I made the mistake in trying to watch that listing. The 921 froze no response to any control, and after about 10 minutes, it rebooted. 

I see by the statement on the Tech forum that you guys are still not ready to give us a fix for this current sabotage to my 921- "L211" 3 months and just pitiful!


----------



## boylehome

ZSR for Law & Order: Trial by Jury 10-11. New weekly timer made after L212. Was set for OTA NBC KNVN. All other timer fired and work.
DVR RECORD EVENT shows 03/03 Unknown Recorded event. When selecting the event to erase, the screen shows: Unknown Recorded Event-280PTV NR AO[SC]-Event Length: 0 seconds-This is a Recorded Event. There is no Program Information found for this Event.

My All Channel Program guide goes from 265 to 300. No 280.

The other timers were an OAT 9-10 and CBSHD 10-11.

This happened on my HEED.

I do have locks activated for PPV only and locks were enabled.



> I called Dish Net Tech. Support and they took a report and passed it on to the, "921 team." Around 1:00pm PST, I got a call from a 921 team member. This is what they had me do:
> 1. Menu - 6 System Setup - Factory Defaults - Yes
> After the 921 reset
> 2. 15 second power cord re-boot (described as, "icing on the cake")
> After the 921 reset
> 3. Menu - 6 System Setup - 2 Point Dish - Switch - Check
> After a successful Switch Matrix
> 4. Menu - 6 System setup - 8 Local Channels - Scan DTV and Save
> After the OTA channel were added
> 5. DVR - Recorded Event Menu exam to see if remaining DVR events were still present
> After verifying they still remained
> 6. Menu - 7 Timer Management to verify that all the timers remained
> The were all accounted for
> 
> I was instructed to call if there were any future ZSR's


----------



## kcook01

I have never had any issues with ZSR until 212 was released. Now my 921 is a mess. We lost everything on our DVR and I was sick to my stomache. I think my wife may have tried to view the ZSR - not knowing that that there was a problem or that you couldn't do this.

I have read other people having trouble with ZSR but in all the time I have had the 921 no problems - until 212.


----------



## boylehome

kcook01 said:


> I have never had any issues with ZSR until 212 was released. Now my 921 is a mess. We lost everything on our DVR and I was sick to my stomache. I think my wife may have tried to view the ZSR - not knowing that that there was a problem or that you couldn't do this.
> 
> I have read other people having trouble with ZSR but in all the time I have had the 921 no problems - until 212.


I feel your pain.

I don't think that upgrade to L212 is the guilty party for your ZSR/Data demolish. You just were lucky to the point of your disaster. Something is happening with the software that causes some type of data corruption. It most likely is attributed to hardware interactions with the software in some kind of sick sequence. It could be caused by a certain sequence of procedures by the user and automatic 921 functions. It could be a transient voltage spikes cause by the phone line, or cabled switching devices, etc. It could be a flaw in the software they are upgrading. From my communications with E* advanced tech. support and 921 team, the bug causing the ZSR/Data demolisher was not fixed with L212. They left me with the impression that they want to solve this problem. One thing is for sure, It finally happed to Mark L. He sent his 921 to the Eldon Team. I guess this is so they can analyze it in hope of finding the cause. I doubt that they will, as the unit was unplugged and the corrupted data evaporated. Perhaps they can recreate the problem with his 921 as their 921 or 921's must be perfect in every aspect. It is also mentioned in other posts that some people have greater problems with their 921's than other people. Hopefully, the next software release will have a cure for the ZSR/Data demolishing bug.

This is my opinion, but my 921's seem to have worse problems including missed timers, ZSR's, frozen format, and crashes, after I do any ADD DTV or Scan DTV. Also the broadcaters, in fine tuning the PSIP equipment (or other transmission data), may cause changes that are not noticeable us but disastrous to the 921.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

The only time got a ZSR was when I was trying to record 2 hd channels at the same time like on HDNET and say TNT in hd. I don't get them with regular sat channels or with my ota channels, just with the hd channels.( THis is why I dropped the hd pack of channels since I couldn't even record them. I also dropped them because I didn't feel that they were worth 9.99 a month . There was never that much on I did watch. )I have had some aspect format freezes and other little things but overall the 921 performs about like my old 721 did. Not as many features as the 721 but still useable. 

That being said , I have decided to trade my 921 in on the new 942 when it comes out in a couple of weeks. I already have been placed on a preorder list at www.dishdepot.com and Mark has said he will give me trade in value for my 921. I guess I will be dealing with a new bunch of problems with the 942 but at least I can close this chapter of screwed up software problems with the 921/721 receivers just like I did with the 7100/7200 dishplayers.:sure:


----------



## kcook01

Thanks for the replies. The 942 trade-up is an interesting idea - I'll have to take a look at it. I've got to look at the features of the 942 because I haven't been watching the technology real close lately because I thought the 921 was it. But if I could get what I have now and have the ability to feed a 2nd TV without having to do the HD to SD swap I'll be sold.

I've got grandparents staying at my house to watch the kids in a in April and having to explain the nuances of the 921 and what to do when it locks up, switching between the 2nd upstairs TV, etc may be enough to make their non-tech heads snap. 

Maybe Mark can help me out.

Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Mike D-CO5

You're welcome. I hope the 942 will be a little more stable than the 921 has been. I also hope that Dish will make good on it's promise to upgrade all hd receives for little or no money like they promised in January at the CES show in Las Vegas.


----------



## boylehome

Mike D-CO5 said:


> That being said , I have decided to trade my 921 in on the new 942 when it comes out in a couple of weeks. I already have been placed on a preorder list at www.dishdepot.com and Mark has said he will give me trade in value for my 921. I guess I will be dealing with a new bunch of problems with the 942 but at least I can close this chapter of screwed up software problems with the 921/721 receivers just like I did with the 7100/7200 dishplayers.:sure:


Mike, I most likely will follow suit but it will be months down the road. May switch sooner if reports show that the 942 functions properly. Keep us posted on how the 942 works for you.

John


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Will do John.


----------



## UpOnTheMountain

ZSRs very frequent these days , mostly CBSHD mostly Amazing race and NCIS.
Almost anytime where timers are back to back and overlapped on HD

Extremely frustrating.

Have switched to recording mostly local digital, get drop outs but at least they are not zsr!


----------



## kcook01

Strangely enough I followed the advanced tech supports suggestions and I haven't had a ZSR in about a week. Last night I even did OTA recordings back to back without changing the default start and they both recorded!!!!!!!

I had to erase everything off the hard drive and then reset back to factory defaults. It was painful but it is like I have a new 921 again.

Of course, now I have completely jinxed myself.

Ken


----------



## brucewoodington

Never had (or knew about) a ZSR until this week. Dish sent a warranty replacement (due to DVI failure). Had one timer set for Deadwood on HBO HD last night. This morning found Deadwood recorded ok, and a ZSR. Only had 1 timer set.
L212- HEED


----------



## BobMurdoch

Unfortunately, I have about 100 hours of recordings saved up so I hate the "delte all the programs and go to factory defaults" solution.

All of my ZSRs have been when two timers were active......


----------



## boylehome

Well I almost went a month with no ZSR. Got one last night on my HEED. My weekly recording for Without a Trace 10p-11p on 9484 CBSHD (satellite 148). I haven't had a ZSR on my HECD 921 for months (hope I didn't jinx it.) I think that the procedure that the 921 team had me perform worked, for a while anyway.



BobMurdoch said:


> Unfortunately, I have about 100 hours of recordings saved up so I hate the "delte all the programs and go to factory defaults" solution.
> 
> All of my ZSRs have been when two timers were active......


You should only have to delete the ZSR's and do the factory reset.


----------



## tnsprin

Smokeball said:


> Roll Out of SW Version L-212 very soon.
> 
> Roll Out of SW Version L-213 projected for March, 2005 will address the ZSR problem. /fingers crossed/


Roll out of SW version L-214 projected for ...

L-213 is here and apparently only addresses Daylight savings time bugs.


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## boylehome

This is the second ZSR about one month after I did the Factory Default.

ZSR occurred on my HEED 921. It was a single weekly timer for local OTA KNVN channel 24-01. Law & Order: Criminal Intent. Time: 10-11P

This may not be applicable because the ZSR was for a terrestrial channel but both my 921's are now connected to a DPP44 rather than the legacy equipment as previously stated months ago. The HEED is connected to DPP44 receiver port 4 and my HECD is hooked to receiver port 1 with the power inserter.

Mark Lammutt - I haven't done another Factory Default yet. I'm trying to understand your work around. I was hoping you could explain more because what you state in this quote of yours to Paradox-Sj doesn't make sense to me at all. All my other times have fired normally. I think you posted something about this work around somewhere else but I couldn't find it.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Paradox-SJ:
> 
> You won't be able to get any timers to fire successfully until you have accumulated as many ZSRs in your DVR list as you had recordings there previously. Once you hit that number of ZSRs, your 921 will resume timer recording normally again. I'd set up a lot of consecutive timers to get that process going, and then send me an email with your contact information, receiver information, and what happened here. I'll send it along to the 921 support team, who will give you some kind of credit for the problem.


Mark Lamutt - I found your other post which I think I may have a better understanding.



Mark Lamutt said:


> elmc - Allison is very good to work with, and doesn't ever "blow people off". If you'd told me this in the email you sent me, I could have told you how to get past the missed recordings.
> 
> The bug you are experiencing is the same as I've gone through with mine in the last week. Your drive was wiped clean, except that it really wasn't. The database pointing to your recordings was corrupted. And, from that point on, timers didn't record, they produced ZSRs instead.
> 
> The workaround solution right now is to accumulate as many ZSRs as you had recorded events when your drive was wiped. Once you get past that point, your 921 will start functioning normally again.


So Mark, does this mean I have to intentionally wipe my DVR events by trying to watch the ZSR? Then just let it do it's ZSR's until the amount of ZSR's catch up to the number of recorded DVR events at the time of the wipe? And, should I first view all the good recorded DVR events then try to watch the ZSR to wipe the recorded DVR events?

Thanks,

John


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## jergenf

[Some insight into ZSR] I was able to create a zero second recording by doing the following.

After one of my timers activated and was still in the process of recording the event, I went into my DVR list and selected the current "red dot" event (still in progress). While viewing the program from the start to end I invoked a "STOP" action a few minutes short of the
where the actual program was still recoding point. 
The event stopped (red dot and recording light now off) but a zero second existed in the DVR list for that program. What I also noticed was that the entire program still existed in the TIVO (2 hr) buffer and still growing in real time. I was able to still view the program again from that buffer for the time being.

Apparently when recorded event started the system writes an entry into it's 'PTVData.dat' file and opens a tempfile. And only after the event is completed does it file get saved, and that event is calculated for time used and final update of the 'PTVData.dat' file. This file provides the information in you DVR list. If something goes wrong, like interrupting the recording or possibly some tuner allocation conflict then the temp recording never get properly filed and you get a ZSR in your list.

For me just deleting that entry works without any problems.


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## Michael P

I got my very first ZSR Sunday morning. I did not know it was a ZSR, the screen said it was 31 minutes long. But when i went to play it I got a blank screen, then I could not delete it because it wa still "Playing". Then I tried using the EPG to switch to a live video source only to find that I had no signal due to snow-fade (OTA still worked but the signal was dropping out). I had just experienced a power outage just minutes before the time change. 

The HD was 100% full the night beore, an OTA recording cutoff early to to the drive being maxed out. I unprotected several programs right after I discovered the max-out situation and had over 2 hrs SD in the display. I lose over 100 hrs. of recordings when I tried to delete this ZSR :crying_sa

About the only thing that went right was the the time on 921 updated to EDT correctly.

I never had a ZSR with any of the older s/w versions.


Legacy Dish 500/Dish 300 (61.5) SW-64
DNASP103
150B
F053
L2.13 HEED-N


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## Mark Lamutt

Sorry, I missed the last few messages in this thread. Thanks boylehome for pointing me to it.

The quotes of what I posted in the other threads have NOTHING to do with working around ZSRs. If you have recorded events listed in your DVR list, DO NOT DELETE THEM! There's no reason to.

My posts apply ONLY if you have had all of your recorded events be wiped out by the 921. (They're not actually deleted, but they are inaccessible.) If that happens to you, your 921 will be unable to successfully record ANYTHING until you accumulate as many ZSRs in your DVR list as you had recordings before they were wiped. Once you accumulate that many ZSRs, your 921 will start functioning correctly again. 

Once again, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with stopping ZSRs from occurring - it's ONLY to get the 921 back into a state where it can record at all.


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## BobaBird

My reason for deleting them is to cut down on the scrolling required to get to the oldest unwatched show. What potential problems am I setting myself up for?


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## Mark Lamutt

No, there's nothing to keep you from deleting them. I put that in caps because deleting DVR events will in no way help you avoid ZSRs.


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## boylehome

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you have recorded events listed in your DVR list, DO NOT DELETE THEM! There's no reason to.
> 
> My posts apply ONLY if you have had all of your recorded events be wiped out by the 921. (They're not actually deleted, but they are inaccessible.) If that happens to you, your 921 will be unable to successfully record ANYTHING until you accumulate as many ZSRs in your DVR list as you had recordings before they were wiped. Once you accumulate that many ZSRs, your 921 will start functioning correctly again.


Mark, I got it :hurah: In the event that I do have a DVR wipe I just build up a bunch of DVR events in hopes of ZSR's to do the catch-up and then I'll see how it goes.

Thanks Mark,

John


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## Michael P

I called Advanced Tech Support on Sunday when I lost all my recordings. They were able to get my 921 to record again by doing a factory reset, as well as a check switch and several front panel reboots.

In the process I was able to see one of my lost recordings' names in a "sublist" of a ZSR that was made after the crash. The lost recording was one of three programs listed (the other two were programs I may have set timers for, but subsquently deleted before they got recorded). Anyway the three programs had negetive times something like:"-43209".

Bottom line I was able to record again without going through the process of building up ZSR's (unless the 5 that were created Sunday afternoon were enough - I lost an entire HD *FULL* of programs!)

I just got off the phone with Allison from ATS who had contacted me about another issue (thanks to Mark for getting me connected with ATS). She said that they are working on a fix for this issue, basically a backup of the database. That fix is temporary, their goal is to stop whatever it is that is causing ZSR's in the first palce.


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## Michael P

I spoke too soon, after 3 or 4 successful recordings, all I get now are ZSR's.


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## Mark Lamutt

Michael - follow my advice, then.


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## KKlare

I tend to disagree with Mark. I have not had a ZSR for several weeks. When I did I watched and eliminated all shows newer than it, working backwards, and then eliminated it. I have now accumulated nearly a full disk -- still need to get rid of many from the Showtime weekend.

I am not recording OTA-DTV, this helps a lot. I offset to avoid simultaneous starts, this is a requirement. (Do we need to avoid simultaneous ends?)

I still need to baby-tend it, watching for misfires or truncated shows. If a weekly timer fails, I will shorten the timer to just after current time with no extension. When it ends I can then "stop" it so far as the 921 is concerned. Meanwhile for local channels I can get the local number instead of the 8xxx version to record or watch the OTA version. Remember to reset the timer after the show expires.


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## kcook01

I spoke with ATS support and was told that 214 will be out by the end of the week. They have found the problem with ZSR's. 214 will address wiping out your entire recordings when attempting to delete them.

Also told 215 will be out beginning of May which will stop ZSR's entirely.

I wish I had more confidence in what they told me...

I also wish they told me they were shipping a 942 as a ZDS (Zero Dollar Swap).


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## boylehome

kcook01 said:


> I spoke with ATS support and was told that 214 will be out by the end of the week. They have found the problem with ZSR's. 214 will address wiping out your entire recordings when attempting to delete them.
> 
> Also told 215 will be out beginning of May which will stop ZSR's entirely.
> 
> I wish I had more confidence in what they told me...
> 
> I also wish they told me they were shipping a 942 as a ZDS (Zero Dollar Swap).


We hope and pray.


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## Mark Lamutt

Huh, that's actually very close to what I've heard through my channels, although we're shooting for the end of next week for 214. Who know, though - it might make it this week.


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## sjm992

Mark Lamutt said:


> Huh, that's actually very close to what I've heard through my channels, although we're shooting for the end of next week for 214. Who know, though - it might make it this week.


I wonder if my 921 is the only one that's never had a ZLR? Of course I'm worried that 214 will break something in mine while it fixes all the others!!!

Or maybe Eldon sends out a special version of the software for us Brits in the USA :lol:


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## Paradox-sj

I have not collected over 35 ZSR's well over the number of orginal number programs that I had before my hard drive was deleted and I am STILL getting ZSR's.

Every night I set up as many recording as I can betwean 12am and 8am.There are usually betwean 20 and 30 timers they are set to fire. 

Each morning I have aprox 2-4 ZSR's out of all the timers that fired. 

Thats not bad you might think roughly 10% or so failure rate...Well let one of those failures be the season ending episode of your wifes favorite show and you will find out how bad it really is.

Through this all I know the programs are still on the HD as my avail time recording time never goes over 152 hours.


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## cichlid

mine started tues night. rec wouldn't stop. In the morning it said it had record program for 502 mins when I manually stopped it. When I tried to view blank black screen and whole system froze. I had to hard reset. and when it came back all recordings were gone. HD was full minus 12 hrs all SD recordings. Nothing left but timers. Tonight got home and 5 zsr's and wont record at all. On hold with dish even as I type.


L213HECD-N Quad DPP


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## CaroleMc

I happened upon your message - noticed it was a bit dated - and wondered if you want to know about one that I had a few days ago. My first...I assumed that it had to do with the program being available on both SD/HD channels (TNT). The program was The Closer - first airing - no commercials. Needless to say, I was disappointed that it did not record. When the timer fired I noticed that it was recording both channels (SD and HD) - I don't think this has happened before but I truly do not remember recording anything from that channel before...does this help anyone?


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## KKlare

I highly recommend using Menu-7 to see the list of timers coming up. Avoid starting two at the same time whether HD or SD -- just stagger one by a minute but be careful of using the start offset for this.

It's been a long while since I had a ZSR but a week ago I got one with back-to-back Avengers on BBC followed by an HD show. Lost the third. As it was the last recording so I did not have to eliminated down to it and could just erase it. The 921 worked since.
-Ken


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## 21stCentMan

I get about 3/4 of my recordings as ZSR's, and frankly I am fed up. I had 2 guys from ATS actually come to my house, and then leave saying it was a "software issue" and I was essentially screwed. I also lost a whole disk worth of recorded shows 2 weeks ago too. I guess maybe i'll call comcast tomorrow, cause this is ridiculous.

Mark


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