# Making the JUMP to HD Questions



## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Howdy, here is our current set up:

Dish 500 on the roof with a Dishpro QUAD, 4 RG6-QS running from Dish pro Quad to Media room in the basement (~100').

Receivers: Family room Dish 721 using 2 of the feeds.
Whole house Dish 508 using 1 of the feeds.
Whole house Dish 301 using 1 of the feeds.

Programming: America's Top 120 (Paid for yearly), Salt Lake City Locals($5.95?, 2 Extra receiver fees (508 and 301) (Notice we do not pay any DVR fees)
One of the reasons we went to Top 120 was to get the music channels that we enjoy. The main reason we have the 301 is it feeds music channels to our whole home audio system and the hold music for the telephone system  )

We own all 3 receivers and also pay the $1.99/month warranty that protects anything with a dish logo on it.

Wanting to go to HD, would assume the ViP622 would be the way to go.

I'm assuming we will drop the 301 out of the equation and now have a 622, 721 and 508. I'm also thinking about adding a TIVO to the 508 to capture programming that I can then route to my Ipod for watching on the road. Yes, I looked at the pocketDish but do not want the extra expense and the extra piece of dedicated hardware to haul around on the road.

Here are my questions:

1. I'm assuming we will have to go to a Dish 1000 on the roof?

2. Are the 4 runs of RG6 QS going to be good enough to handle the 3 receivers (622,721,508)?

3. Lease or Buy the ViP622? Cost breakdown? (Note: we currently own outright all 3 receivers)

4. The TV that the 622 would be hooked to is a Pioneer 50" HD Plasma, the 622 would be run in 1 TV Dual Tuner mode, just like the 721 is now. (Ok, it's not a question)

5. I has thinking all the time that the HD Silver would just be an additional $10.00/month but looking again, it looks like it may be $20.00/month. That $20.00 may be enough to break the deal. Anyway to just add HD channels to our TOP 120? We are mainly just interested in the Major Channel HD content. Don't really need to watch Emeril Lagasse in HD.

6. Do we get our locals (SLC) in HD across Dish? (We can not get Local HD OTA as we are in a canyon that blocks the local transmitters).

7. Speaking of Canyons, will the extra satelite be blocked by the canyon? We are OK on our Dish 500 now. Any way to ballpark tell?

8. Any other fees going to be added to our bill? DVR Fee? etc?


So as you can see, it really comes down to WHAT IS GOING TO COST above and beyond what we have now. I'm OK with 1 time purchase costs, it is the monthly additonal charges that I'm really concerned with.

Thanks for all of your help!!!!


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

1. Yes

2. Your 3 receivers now have 5 tuners. So yes, if you add a DPP44 switch or wait for the DPP33.

4. That's Single mode.

5. Make that ~$24/mo for you because the HD metal packages don't have an annual discount. As a new Dish*HD* subscriber you can get a rebate of $10/mo for 10 months.

6. CBS NBC Fox from 129°, no ABC yet.

7. You will need line of sight about 10 degrees farther west.

8. DVR $5.98 unless you step up to Platinum with all the movie channels.
Extra tuner $5 unless you keep a phone line connected
HD Enabling $6 if you decline a Dish*HD* package


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

You can use http://www.dbsforums.com/azel.html for the canyon part. The elevation to 61.5 would likely make that impossible but 129 isn't that much lower elevation for you. If you are "just barely" clearing to see 110 and 119 now at 42°, you might not get 129 at 39°:

Latitude: 40.8874°N
Longitude: 111.9027°W

Satellite: 61.5°W
Azimuth: 118.4°
Elevation: 20.7°

Satellite: 109.9°W
Azimuth: 176.9°
Elevation: 42.7°

Satellite: 119.3°W
Azimuth: 191.2°
Elevation: 42.1°

Satellite: 129.0°W
Azimuth: 205.2°
Elevation: 39.6°

The arm of the Dish 500 is pointing to 184° now (midpoint of 110 and 119) so 129 would be 21° to the west of the current arm heading, and about 3° lower elevation. You can't use the angle of the arm to sight to a canyon wall though. The arm itself is ~22° lower than the satellite elevation.

You will be charged a $6/month lease fee on the 622. $5 of that will be offset by dropping the existing "Addl Rec" fee of the 301. Add $5.98 DVR fee. Connect to a phone line to avoid the $5 phone line fee. The $199 lease fee covers all the installation of switches and cables that you'd have to add yourself with a purchase. I'd also encourage you to also carry the 622's Home Distribution coax to the rest of the house with the other receivers. You pick some UHF channel 21-69 for the 622 that doesn't interfere with the 508/721 and can "watch the rest of the show from the master bedroom".

Forgot to mention the Az values are TRUE, not compass headings.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Curious to what the HD enabling fee is. Is that if you do not get a HD metal package? If you didn't get a HD metal package, what HD content would you get? Just the local Network channels? That maybe is all we want.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

THey charge you $6.00 per receiver for the hd enabeling fee if you don't have any metallic pack for hd. This allows your receiver to receive the ota digital stations and if you have the hd locals from Dish then you would get them too . It gets quite expensive to avoid the hd channels though if you have 2 622 receivers like I do. It would cost me 12.00 to avoid the hd channels and I would only save 8.00 by doing so. I felt it would be better to have the extra hd channels than save the 8.00 and pay 12.00 in fees.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Do you have to pay extra on top of your standard $5.95 local channels to get your local channels in HD?

I hope that we don't have to pay $5.95 for SD local channels and $x.xx for HD local channels.

If we only want the local channels in HD hopefully we can get away with paying $5.95 for the local channels and $6.00 for HD enable fee and we would get the minimum of what we want.


In otherwords (Current):
721 main receiver no extra costs, No DVR fee
508 additonal receiver fee $5.00, No DVR fee
301 additional receiver fee $5.00
Plus $5.95 local channels
Plus $1.99 for all dish warranty fee

Total $17.94/month (Note: we pay for our Top 120 service annually)

New:
721 main receiver no extra costs, No DVR fee
508 additonal receiver fee $5.00, No DVR fee
622 additonal receiver fee $5.00, $5.98 DVR fee
-$5.00 because the 622 is connected to a phone line.

Then add in:
$6.00 HD enabling fee so we get local channels in HD.
$6.00 622 lease fee so we don't own it and then come out with a new model we get the new one(Is that how that will work?)

Total $22.98

Sound right?


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

mantry said:


> Total $22.98
> 
> Sound right?


No. The 642 $6 lease fee is in place of an "Addl Rec" (owned receivers only) fee. You wouldn't ever pay both. The phone line fee has a different "name".

$0 for 721 Primary receiver
$5 for 508 Addl Rec
$5.99 Locals (covers both SD and HD versions)
$1.99 Extended warranty
ViP 622 charges​$6 Lease fee
$6 HD Enable (for no HD subscription)
$5.98 DVR fee

$30.96 Total

I don't know how much longer you have on the annual AT120. It does save a month's AT120 charge, and can postpone a price increase. There is no equivalent DishHD annual offer. There is a $10/month for 10 months rebate promotion for new DishHD subscribers. If your annual is going to renew soon, you MIGHT consider the DishHD subscription for 10 months. It adds $20 for the HD programming, but drops $10 for the rebate, drops the $6 HD Enable fee, and locals are $5 instead of $5.99. The net cost (ignoring the lost free month on annual) is $3.01 for a lot of HD programming for those 10 months and then $13.01 if you get sucked in and keep it. You can drop back to ATxxx in 10 months (better to assume 12 months) but the AT120 annual may be at an increased rate with a Feb price increase.

If all you really want is AT120 and OTA digital locals, you MIGHT consider a 942 instead of the 622. You'd have to purchase one (and it wouldn't be easy to find), but there would be no HD Enable fee and you'd save a buck with its $5 Addl Rec instead of the $6 lease. If you don't have any OTA and are looking for SLC HD locals via DISH, that wouldn't work with a 942.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

CABill said:


> No. The 642 $6 lease fee is in place of an "Addl Rec" (owned receivers only) fee. You wouldn't ever pay both. The phone line fee has a different "name".
> 
> $0 for 721 Primary receiver
> $5 for 508 Addl Rec
> ...


CABILL - Thanks, I think the muddy water is getting a little clearer....(If that is possible)
I understand the $3.01 for the first 10 months. But what about the $6.00 lease fee and the $5.98 DVR fee? Would we still be paying that?

Then same thing when it jumps to $13.01? DVR? LEASE?

Using your price estimate from above if we go with HDSilver which is AT120 plus HD would it look like this:
$0 for 721 Primary receiver
$5 for 508 Addl Rec
$5.00 Locals (covers both SD and HD versions)
$1.99 Extended warranty
ViP 622 charges​$6 Lease fee
$5.98 DVR fee
$20.00 additional for HD SILVER above the standard $39.99 for AT120

$43.97 Total

Which is $26.03 above the $17.94/month we are paying now. Also note it would only be a $16.03 increase for the first 10 months.
Hows that? My math correct?

Also CABILL, do we get to subtract anything for having the phone line connected or have we considered that a wash because we will have one hooked up?

Thanks again so much folks!!!


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

mantry said:


> Do you have to pay extra on top of your standard $5.95 local channels to get your local channels in HD?
> 
> I hope that we don't have to pay $5.95 for SD local channels and $x.xx for HD local channels.
> 
> ...


IF you want just locals both sd and hd or going to be $5.99 . IF you have top 120 then you will be charged only $5.00 for locals-sd/hd. Then you add the dvr fee of $5.98 on your 622 and the hd enabeling fee for $6.00 as well since they charge you that to access your ota locals and your hd locals and since you have no metallic pack. You will also be charged a lease fee of $6.00 since this is another receiver on your account. So you are looking at 17.98 in additional fees plus your 5.00 for your locals =22.98. Then take your 721 with no fees and add to that the 508 additional receiver fee for 5.00 and you will be paying $27.98 a month for everything. ( This might be wrong if Dish chooses to make the 622 your main receiver on your account. Then you might be looking at the 721 being another 5.00 additional receiver fee on top of the $6.00 lease fee on your 622. ) You could eliminate the hd enabeling fee of $6.00 if you would just sub to the Siver hd pack. For $64.99 a month you get all the 27 hd channels + locals + the top 120.

Don't you just love all those fees? By the way they don't take 5.00 off of your bill if you have the receivers plugged into a phone line , they just don't charge you the extra 4.99 a month if you don't keep them plugged into a phone line.

If I were you I would consider taking the silver pack and running the second tuner to the rooms where you were using the 508 or the 721 and trade one of them into Dish for $25.00 . Then you would have one 622 receiver in dual mode that could take the place of the other 508 and use it on your main hdtv as well . Then get Dish to refund your top 120 you paid for in advance and take the silver pack or higher. If all you want is the hd locals then the 622 is kind of a waste. Having all the 27 hd national channels and your hd locals and ota locals in digital as well makes the 622 worth it. With Dish the more programming you sub to , the less fees you pay and the more worth while it is. The platinum pack with locals is 104.99 and there are no dvr fees, or hd enabeling fees.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

So if we went to HD Platinum we would be paying:

$99.99 for HD Platinum
$ 5.00 Additional receiver fee for 721
$ 5.00 Additional reciever fee for 508
$ 5.00 Local Channel fee
$ 6.00 622 Lease fee
$ 1.99 Warranty fee

$122.98 Total. Where as above we would be paying $83.96 ($43.97 monthly fees + $39.99 Top 120) Just an additonal $39.02  Don't think we can go that much, but it is an option....


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

"$17.94/month we are paying now" - I don't doubt that is your actual charge, but I can't understand locals at $5.95 instead of $5.99. If you pay for a basic package annually, locals are $5.99 (by themselves). If you pay for a package monthly (DishFAMILY, ATxx, DishHD), locals are only $5. I've only paid $3/month for locals since I added them to Distant & Superstations years ago, but I don't know how to characterize them as soon as Distants go poof.

That $0.99 difference in the price of locals eats into the "value of the free month" of AT120 by $11.88. So the annual is really only worth $(39.99-11.88)/12 but that is $2.34 you do lose from the monthly plan instead of annual.

Your "$43.97 Total" looks good but jumps to $83.96 when you actually include the 59.99 instead of just its $20 "increase". Once the $10/month kicks in in a few months, the monthly $83.96 drops to $73.96 for 10 months. Nothing changes in the monthly fees at the end of the 10 months of rebates - just the $10 stops being deducted from the monthly bill. It might be easier to compare 83.96/73.96 to what you sorta pay now monthly. If you did pay $39.99 monthly and added the $30.96 from the previous post, you'd get to $70.95 (the $3.01 difference). You don't really pay $39.99/month now, but it isn't easy to say what you do pay. If your annual started after 1Feb, it was $440 but only $418 if before 1Feb. I'll pick the $440/12 or 36.67 and add the $30.96 from the previous post for $67.62. $65.79 if you use the $418 number. Bottom line is neither is a big leap to the $73.96 for the 1st 10 months. After the $10/month credits stop, that is the only chage to the bill.

Humm, that gets you to a grey area. When they introduced the 622, you couldn't sign up to get one until 1Feb when the new monthly price changes had gone into effect. I would HOPE that since you are making an 18 month commitment with the ViP upgrade that you would also be sheltered from the Feb 07 price increase as well. But I don't make the rules and can't say what will happen.

And as Mike explained, you don't ever deduct anything with the phone line fee. If you connect to a phone line, it is zero. You can only add $5 if it isn't and that fee doesn't have anything to do with the other fees - totally separate.

I'd also echo Mike's suggestion about carrying the the 622 output to the rest of the house. I don't think you can still get $25 when you turn in a receiver though. Last I saw, it had dropped to $10. Neither would come close to the "value" of the receiver if you sold it. If you know someone with DISH w/o a DVR, it would make an outstanding Xmas present (DEACTIVATED from your account of course) that neither $10 or $25 could purchase. If you need the receiver dedicated to 24x7 music, you'll probably have to pay the $5/month.

One too many Addl Rec fees in post #10. Mike's suggestion was meant to get rid of either the 508 or 721 from the account so that would drop a 2nd Addl Rec fee. The first 508/721 wouldn't have a fee (Primary) and the goal was to drop the other from the account.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

All of my costs are guesses as I don't have a bill in front of me.
Also I think the 622 will be in 2 tuner 1 tv mode as we use the record 1 watch 1 mode all the time.
Where was that link that showed what SLC local hd channels were on what SAT?


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/hdlocal.htm shows SLC on 129 (and ABC is missing).

I don't use Single mode myself, but still can "record one and watch one" in Dual mode. You can't PIP in Dual mode, but I'd still encourage you to continue Home Distribution to the master bedroom. Whether you use Single/Dual mode, pick UHF 21 or 60, you can pause/stop what you are watching in the living room and continue from that point in bed. In single mode, the living room may be stuck watching the same thing, but it is something the wife and I do quite a bit.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Why is it on some HD locals they do not carry all 3 major locals? Why is ABC missing on the Salt Lake City locals? That is ODD. Is there any work around to get ABC HD in some other way?


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Via DISH, the only workaround to getting ABC HD would be via an OTA antenna. There is zero possibility of getting ABC from outside your DMA via Sat with DISH. See what type of antenna you might need in your zipcode at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

I'd have to assume there are problems getting the station owner/management to agree on terms that are acceptable to DISH. I don't know who owns KTVX 4. OK, you made me look. http://msi.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/quicksearch.cgi?Z= says it is Clear Channel. I don't recall negotiation issues with them, but don't pay close attention either.


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## saboater (Dec 18, 2006)

CABill said:


> Via DISH, the only workaround to getting ABC HD would be via an OTA antenna. There is zero possibility of getting ABC from outside your DMA via Sat with DISH. See what type of antenna you might need in your zipcode at
> 
> I'd have to assume there are problems getting the station owner/management to agree on terms that are acceptable to DISH. I don't know who owns KTVX 4. OK, you made me look. says it is Clear Channel. I don't recall negotiation issues with them, but don't pay close attention either.


We don't get NBC here in San Antonio, which is owned by CLear Channel(and Clear Channel even has its headquarters here). SO maybe its with certain affiliates.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Yes, a OTA is out of the question. Put a nice Antenna up in the attic pointed towards the canyon wall in the direction of the Transmitters according to the antennaweb.org (or whatever it is web site) and NOTHING. Well, just barely that you could tell something was there, boy was I disapointed. RATS, but can't change the geography. Now a 500' mast would probably help but...

I'm going to try calling Dish tomorrow and get all the details on their end, plus I want to ask what happens in 30 days if we decide that we do not want the service? Will they take back the 622, etc.?

Thanks again guys!


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

mantry said:


> I'm going to try calling Dish tomorrow and get all the details on their end, plus I want to ask what happens in 30 days if we decide that we do not want the service? Will they take back the 622, etc.?


If you agreed to an 18 month lease, you have 30 days to get your monthly costs refunded, but that doesn't refund the $200 you paid for the lease upgrade, any PPV items, ... Lots to read at http://www.dishtv.com/terms_dha04.jsp in the "Money Back Guarantee" paragraph. You get out of the $240 early termination clause, but
and your obligation to pay all lease upgrade fees (if applicable) and other fees, charges and other amounts (if any) applicable to your purchase of DISH Network services and/or use of related equipment, shall remain in full force​says you don't get the $200 upgrade fee refunded. 30 days of HD Bronze (whatever you picked), the DVR fee, the lease fee, activation fee, and the like ARE refunded.

If you didn't agree to an 18 month lease, there is no $240 early termination to worry about, but the Money Back doesn't apply and you don't get the activation fee and the 1st month's recurring fees returned (or the $200 lease upgrade).


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Another question. Not sure I understand how the 622 works in SINGLE/DUAL mode etc.
It would be replacing our 721's location on our 50" TV in the front room. 
We currently use the 721 as a 2 Tuner 1 TV mode. Meaning we can watch 1 channel and record another. We do this quite a bit.

If I understand the 622 you can have it function just like the 721 or have it operate in DUAL mode which would be 2 Tuner and 2 TV mode, meaning that the second tuner can fee another TV.

Right now with the 721/508/301 we have the capability of recording 3 channels at a time. The 622/721/508 would give us the cabability of record 5 channels at one time is that correct? (I won't count recording OTA with the 622).

Thanks


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes that is correct. I count 5 channels. The 622 in single mode operates similar to the 721 in relation to being a dual tuner receiver. 

Right now I have two 622s and one 721 so I can do a totally of 8 since I have OTA hooked up. Hmmm never thought of it that way.. Woo Hoo


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