# DirecTV Customer Service...HA!



## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Just thought I would share my story with my lovely DirecTV experience which all happened within a week of being a customer. It started with me ordering online and not noticing a place to enter the information for the refer a friend credit and a $240 AAA discount payed over 24 months. When I emailed customer service the very next day, a full week before my install date and explained my situation they said I would have to cancel my order and place it again using a special 800 number. Being that I was already charged nearly $200 for equipment(an HD box and 2 wireless receivers), would have to reschedule an install date, and worried I would have to wait an extended period before reordering I decided to take the loss. I just couldn't figure out why they couldn't add the discounts considering I wasn't even a customer yet, but regardless I consider that my fault for not knowing the special 800 number.

So now the installer comes and installs 3 boxes and leaves. As soon as I walked in the house I noticed they were all silver. I got an HR20, H20-600, and some silver basic box that I'm not sure of the model off hand. Theres a few reasons this aggravated me. Besides a few basic added features the newer models have, my main gripe was the lack of an ethernet port on the H20. I read that the H21 and 23 had updates rolling out to activate the ethernet ports and enable Media Sharing a month or two ago which is a feature I was looking forward to. Then I find out that the HR20-600 models are a fire trap that overheat and fail frequently. I was reading on the D* tech forums about installers complaining about this model box. Needless to say I wasnt happy.

Ok, so now my first bill arrives like 3 hours after the installer leaves. J/k--it came a few days later but was surprised how fast it got here.  I now notice they didnt put the $21 credit that one is supposed to get for 12 months. I filled out all the forms and made sure it was submitted well before my install date. I got an email confirmation saying it was received and I will see the rebate on my first bill. When I emailed to voice my concern about the missing rebate and the equipment I received I was told it was a computer glitch and I should see the credit next month. Then they stated they have no control over the boxes that are sent out. 

Now I decide to go through the BBB (When I canceled cable I also lost my phone service/triple play and wasn't about to call customer service from my cell) to reach a higher level of support, which I do--the Office of the President...ohhhhhh....ahhhhhhh.  I explain again my story and they blame me for missing out on the refer a friend and AAA rebate saying they gave me the option to cancel. I never even asked for the credit--I just wanted to fill them in on the entire experience! The reply about getting all used equipment was that they're trying to save the environment and reduce clutter in the landfills! Awesome. I wanted to reply that until their techs design a receiver made out of wheatgrass they're all going to a landfill regardless, but I bit my tongue. The response to the lack of Ethernet port was answered with only the HDDVR models have media sharing and that I should call the Geek Squad if I need help locating the Ethernet Port. WTF? To explain the voluntary recall they had last year on the H20-600 they said there never was a recall and that not all models are affected, even after I explained mine had no ECO 2.0 sticker to show it was worked on. I suppose I have to wait until it burst into flames!? Seriously, when I read the D* tech forums how the internals of this box literally melt its kind of scary. Finally they say they have 6-8 weeks to process online rebates which is simply not true. It clearly states that if you fill out the rebate BEFORE the install date, which I did, it will be on your first bill. At least the email support was nice and openly admitted it was a computer glitch, the Office of the President seemed extremely condescending and just outright lied about the rebate processing--or just didn't bother looking at my account. 

Sooo, they simply refused to budge on absolutely anything. All I wanted was to swap out the H20-600...THATS IT! The fact they started me off with 5 year old equipment was bad enough considering they have to last 2 years, I'm responsible if they fail, AND the fiasco of getting your contract extended for replacements/upgrades! Even after explaining the fire hazard they still wont swap it out. 

I just gave up and decided to go to arbitration and end my contract based on the fact they didn't hold up to the agreement. We agreed I would see my rebate on my first bill and I didn't. In their terms if I miss a payment or breach the terms in any way they reserve the right to cancel my service so I figure I have that same luxury. I had to print out so many copies of different documents I think each pile weighs like 8lbs! I'm actually laughing about how adamant they are about refusing to swap out the H20 after having it for less than a week. I honestly think all these big companies are relying too heavily on these two year lock-ins and completely disregarding customer service.  

Sorry this got so long, I actually intended to keep it short!


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Well I think both sides are to blame. It sounds like you did some homework but not enough. Alot of this does fall on you. That does not mean D* should not honor their offers though. As far as the recievers you get all I can say is it does seem to be luck of the draw but when I was getting installed last year I called the company ahead of time cause I requested a HR20 for the ATSC tuners built in.

As far as I know you only have 24 hours to cancel service with no fee's. I dont really like being shafted so if I felt that badly about it then I would probably push it further. If you want a email addy for someone higher up then the VP of CS then PM me and I will provide it. The only thing I really feel for you about this whole thing is that you should be getting the discounts now and not later. As for the recievers you should of been there for the install and asked if there was something different you could get or you could of went and bought what you wanted at Best Buy and been happy with the hardware.

In the end I hope it works out for you. Let us know how it goes and if we can help in any way. Good luck.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Bottom line IMO A new customer should have NEW equipment, not someone else headache 'refurb'. It's kinda like leasing a new car and The salesman shows up in your driveway with your new car. A '76 pinto.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The equipment part of the problem as well as the initial credits are all on D*. And the equipment problem won't ever change as long as D* defines 'inventory management' as 'whatever is on the truck'! I know of no other company that does as poorly as D* does from the customer perspective in managing inventory.

And not applying initial credits to a new account that followed the rules is just laziness on someone's part. Or software so poorly designed that it just doesn't work right.

I keep saying that the two times a company doesn't want to make the customer mad is the beginning and the end, and yet we hear all too many stories about just that happening.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

joshjr said:


> Well I think both sides are to blame. It sounds like you did some homework but not enough. Alot of this does fall on you. That does not mean D* should not honor their offers though. As far as the recievers you get all I can say is it does seem to be luck of the draw but when I was getting installed last year I called the company ahead of time cause I requested a HR20 for the ATSC tuners built in.
> 
> As far as I know you only have 24 hours to cancel service with no fee's. I dont really like being shafted so if I felt that badly about it then I would probably push it further. If you want a email addy for someone higher up then the VP of CS then PM me and I will provide it. The only thing I really feel for you about this whole thing is that you should be getting the discounts now and not later. As for the recievers you should of been there for the install and asked if there was something different you could get or you could of went and bought what you wanted at Best Buy and been happy with the hardware.
> 
> In the end I hope it works out for you. Let us know how it goes and if we can help in any way. Good luck.


What else could he have done?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Aside from the Ethernet port on the H20, there's not much "missing" on the receivers the OP got. I'm assuming that the remotes weren't three years old and that may be a flawed assumption.

It does seem odd that they would send equipment capable of OTA to an area where relatively full LIL coverage is available.

The failure here is where the OP didn't fully investigate how the AAA discount works. It is relatively well documented here and the policy is very clear. If the install was fairly recent, the OP may still be eligible.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=112882

https://www.aaa.com/aaa/215/discounts/retail/partner/directv/index.htm


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

mx6bfast said:


> What else could he have done?


He could have done a little more research on discounts and more research on what equipment he would get. A simple search on this forum would bring up about 34823498234923 posts if someone search's for requesting specific models.

Also the over heating issue was resolved and most of the ird's that were impacted were refurbed and sent back out. So you shouldn't have an issue with it.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

DonkeyJab said:


> I'm responsible if they fail, AND the fiasco of getting your contract extended for replacements/upgrades!


You're not responsible for failed equipment. They will replace it for the cost of shipping if it fails after 90 days, and for free if it fails before then. If it makes it 90 days you're probably going to be fine. If you sign up for the Protection Plan you will not pay any shipping.

Anyway, I've read your post twice and still fail to see breach of contract on anyone's part. They didn't give you the receiver you wanted but that's not a breach of the contract.

With regard to the rebate: I'm not saying that what you're reading isn't true but I've always seen rebates as being posted to bills weeks or months later, and advertised as-such. If what you have in your hands is actually legitimate then that's certainly a valid point, but I still wouldn't consider it breach of contract or a reason to cancel service after having it for a week. If they give you $240 of credits starting in your next billing cycle I wouldn't be upset enough to get the BBB involved.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

As pointed out above, you CANNOT research the equipment you will get (outside of the 72.5W markets getting all HD equipment). You may get the latest or you may get the earliest or you may get something in between. You don't know for sure what it will be until the installer shows it to you you.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't know how I can be mostly to blame Josh. I already said it was my fault for not knowing the 800 number for the rebates. It only bothered me because I emailed less than 24 hours after joining online asking how I should go about applying the rebates and my only option was canceling. I would think its more work on them to have to refund my banking account, cancel the install date, reschedule at a later date, and have to enter all my information again when I rejoin. Still, they did indeed have that separate 800 number in the AAA magazine so it was my mistake--not disputing that.

Regarding the equipment, I wasn't even picky. There wasn't a particular model I wanted--I honestly didn't care too much. Now as I understood it you can't request a certain box even if you ask before the install. I actually asked the installer if he had any HR23's on the truck when he pulled up and he said he didnt know. He already put the Dish on my roof before I ever saw a receiver. 

When they list the receivers as being black in both the online pictures and in the model descriptions I took that to mean I would be getting an HR21, HR22, or an HR23--any would do. Same goes for the HD models, the H21 or H23 would've been fine, I just needed an Ethernet port. I didn't hold out waiting for a Tivo box because its not something I need--I need an Ethernet port though.

The equipment being refurbished really does bother me though. Not just because they're refurbished but because I have to pay the same price as a new model for them AND be held responsible for them for 2 years. So lets say I want to replace the H20 because I don't want my house to catch on fire. I go to Best Buy and pick up an H23 since nobody even sells H20's anymore. Now what happens? I have to pay to ship the H20 back, pay for the new H23, lose out on the $100 I paid for the H20 I had for a week, and you know they would extend my contract and consider it an upgrade. How is that even remotely reasonable?

tcusta, the breach of contract is not applying the rebates on my first bill. I do indeed have the email. It says:


DIRECTV REBATE CONFIRMATION
Hello XXXX,
Congratulations! Your request has been received for the following DIRECTV rebate offer:
$21 Monthly Bill Credit for 12 Months
Your Rebate will appear on your first bill. You can check the status of your rebate at any time, and we recommend you print and save this email for your records.

Also, on DirecTV's site it says:
Helpful Hints

If you submit your rebate prior to your DIRECTV installation, your rebate credits will begin with your first bill. Rebates submitted after installation will take 6-8 weeks. Come back any time to check your status.

So yes, thats the breach. Is it a minor mistake? Yes. Is how they responded to my inquiry about swapping out a single box that lacks a feature I truly want and has had many serious heat related issues? Enough issues that they set up an 800 number and proactively called customers to swap that model box out? Yes, I think so. And for those saying the H20-600 models are fixed check out DirecTV's Tech forum that only installers post on, heres a link with them discussing the issue all in the past month that even the refurbished models are melting: forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10566461


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Donkey, 

You've admitted that the rebate thing is a minor mistake. Let it go if you indeed think it's minor. 

Everything else, while not acceptable to you, has been to contract and as DirecTV advertises. The fact that you don't like it or agree with it doesn't make it a breach of contract.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The AAA rebates aren't something that you need to cancel to get. You should be able to add them for a short time after you're first activated without tearing everything down.

$120 is not minor change and could be used to get an MRV capable HD receiver when the time comes.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

You know what else is a minor mistake? Missing a credit card payment. If I made that minor mistake I would be charged a late fee and my APR would go up for that minor mistake. DirecTVs own contract states they can terminate my service for missing payments or any other breach of the agreement. They shouldn't be held to the same standards?

I didn't want to cancel my service and I definitely didn't want to spend all this time and effort printing out 4 copies of contracts and documents supporting my argument. All I wanted was a receiver that had an ethernet port and isn't a known safety hazard. And being lied to when trying to discuss the issue with the Office of the President doesn't help either. If they're going to spin everything, justify used boxes with them saving the planet, brush me off on Geek Squad, deny ever recalling the H20-600 models, and then tell me I'm lying about should of recieving a rebate on my first bill I have no desire to just let it go.

I wish that were the case Harsh. When I inquired about adding the AAA rebate the day after ordering online they said canceling was my only option. The Office of the President confirmed this also by stating:

As stated you were offered by the agent to cancel your order before installation, and place a new order with the offers you’re referring to. You had made a decision to decline this option, knowing you wouldn’t be able to receive the refer-a-friend and AAA new customer offers.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> You know what else is a minor mistake? Missing a credit card payment. If I made that minor mistake I would be charged a late fee and my APR would go up for that minor mistake. DirecTVs own contract states they can terminate my service for missing payments or any other breach of the agreement. They shouldn't be held to the same standards?
> 
> I didn't want to cancel my service and I definitely didn't want to spend all this time and effort printing out 4 copies of contracts and documents supporting my argument. All I wanted was a receiver that had an ethernet port and isn't a known safety hazard. And being lied to when trying to discuss the issue with the Office of the President doesn't help either. If they're going to spin everything, justify used boxes with them saving the planet, brush me off on Geek Squad, deny ever recalling the H20-600 models, and then tell me I'm lying about should of recieving a rebate on my first bill I have no desire to just let it go.
> 
> ...


So the only real issue at this point is that the rebate credit wasn't on your first bill and it will be on your second bill. I'm pretty sure there was a thread about that as well and someone posted that it happened with orders set during a certain time. H20-600 issues have been resolved for a few months at the minimum so that's not an issue. I can understand wanting to have an ethernet port but trying to say that because a model had an issue they should replace it. If that were the case at some point D* would not be sending out ird's because they've all had one. This was different and model specific but overall it's still resolved.

You expected the office of the president to just do what you wanted because of who they were. Well they really don't have a reason to do so. No one said you won't get a credit and no one said you would get a H21 or H23.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

If its resolved then why are installers/repair techs still having problems with this model's internal hardware melting even after they were worked on--and it's still happening to this day? I already posted a link to one example of this with one tech stating he see's failure rates up to %50. Some warehouses apparently already had all of these models pulled. It's all there for you.

And I didn't expect the Office of the President to just do what I wanted. I wanted my $340 rebate but took it as a loss. I wanted new equipment on a new install but accepted 5 year old boxes. I wanted the rebate on my first bill and it didn't happen and even that I didn't make a huge issue out of at first. So no, I didnt expect everything I wanted. I DID expect they would replace a box that has known hardware and safety issues though. I didn't want a free upgrade, I didnt want my money back, I just wanted to swap it out with a model that has an ethernet port and one that tends not to melt. I know--it's asking alot. :/ 

One thing they did say is I would get a rebate on my first bill and it didn't happen. I'm also not getting it on my second bill, I would see it on my 13th bill. Either way, if they refuse to do absolutely anything and keep referring to legal obligations in the agreement that I'm bound by then I will do the same. It's not a hard concept.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

harsh said:


> The AAA rebates aren't something that you need to cancel to get. You should be able to add them for a short time after you're first activated without tearing everything down.
> 
> $120 is not minor change and could be used to get an MRV capable HD receiver when the time comes.


This is not correct. If they don't order through that number they do not get it. Now if they had ordered through that number and it wasn't done right that can be fixed.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

DonkeyJab said:


> Sooo, they simply refused to budge on absolutely anything. All I wanted was to swap out the H20-600...THATS IT!


Was this the focus of your conversation? Seems like you went into a lot of different things and the CSR may have (incorrectly) thought that you wanted more.

Why didn't you take the option to cancel if they gave it to you? It doesn't really sound like you got anything that you were looking for.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

My thoughts were that you should of researched it more before signing up. I know I sure has heck did. I researched all possible recievers I could get and read countless reviews. Also I signed up with the refer a friend but I did not catch the AAA deal. I had no one to blame but myself so I didnt bother with it.

I to think that new customers should get new equipment especially if they are not gonna sign up for the protection plan but thats the way it goes. I offered help to you but I guess you didnt want it. I sort of feel for your situation but like I said I think at least half of your disapointment is due to lack of research on your part.

D* should be held responsible for their part. Thats why I offered you help. If you dont want it then please dont gripe. There are alot of great people here that really want to help others me included. I really hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction and dont hesitate to ask if you have any questions.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Doug, this is how I ended my first BBB complaint:

As a new customer I had no idea they would charge an upfront equipment fee only to send discontinued refurbished units. At the very least its the H20-600 I would like exchanged due to the recall and lack of ethernet port.

That was my main concern and made it clear as I didn't think it would be a big issue. I didn't want to cancel because I already called my cable company to have my service disconnected to align with my install date. I also requested a day off to be home for the installation. I honestly thought either the installer would call in the information for the rebates or I could have it applied when I emailed the day after signing up thinking it should be a non-issue. I also had no idea how long it would take for them to credit back my account for the equipment and how long I would need to wait before rejoining. It would have been a major hassle to cancel and reschedule so I took the loss. While I wasn't happy it was a compromise to get things done.

Josh, I assure you I did hours upon hours of research before I joined. Look at my first post here. It was asking if getting such an old unit is common. From all the other threads I've read before joining they all said getting an HR23 is very likely on a new install, and if not you'll get an HR21 or HR22. Being that I can't request a specific model there really wasn't anything more I could do. I also realized that its a grab bag in terms of what your going to get when the installer shows up, but like I said I never thought every box would be so outdated. I was pretty confident that they would at least be in the family of boxes that are black and can handle what I want them to do. You'll also see in my first post here that I planned on just making due with all the used boxes and hoping for the best. It wasn't until a few days later until I found out about the H20-600 recall. How could I possibly know that? The reason I looked it up is because how hot the box runs even after being off for hours at a time. That aside, its a combination of things. From the refer a friend and AAA rebate fiasco, to the error on my first bill, to being stuck with all used boxes one of which is a safety issue, to the snarky replies through the BBB inquiry. If I can look past all of that, take a few losses myself, why cant they swap out a single box? Just because they're not legally bound to do so? 

And your asking me not to gripe about this situation. While I appreciate your offer, I already stated that I was in contact with both email customer support and their office of the president. There was no lee-way whatsoever and I filed for arbitration. How is emailing a supervisor going to help me now? I posted this here to share my experience and answer any questions pertaining to it--I apologize if you took that as griping.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Doug, this is how I ended my first BBB complaint:
> 
> As a new customer I had no idea they would charge an upfront equipment fee only to send discontinued refurbished units. At the very least its the H20-600 I would like exchanged due to the recall and lack of ethernet port.
> 
> That was my main concern and made it clear as I didn't think it would be a big issue. I didn't want to cancel because I already called my cable company to have my service disconnected to align with my install date. I also requested a day off to be home for the installation. I honestly thought either the installer would call in the information for the rebates or I could have it applied when I emailed the day after signing up thinking it should be a non-issue. I also had no idea how long it would take for them to credit back my account for the equipment and how long I would need to wait before rejoining. It would have been a major hassle to cancel and reschedule so I took the loss. While I wasn't happy it was a compromise to get things done.


With all the correspondence that has taken place it has to have atleast been 3-4 days since you signed up and were installed. This means the H20-600 has been running that long. Sounds like yours is going to make it. People might actually be more sympathetic if you would let go the recall. Everyone knows about it and the post that you linked is a small % of total units in the field. Those techs are more pissed off about charge backs then they are anything else so who knows the true numbers.

If you don't want to believe me then fine don't. However know that if you're right someone at DirecTV has already decided that it would be cheaper for your house to burn down and them to pay you off then to stop shipping that IRD.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Shades, thats only one post. Theres many more out there. And reading those posts stating even after being repaired they are still melting--its not very reassuring. The entire point of the argument is if they know theres problems with this model with one being they can melt, why are they still so resistant on swapping it out? Apparently they are now starting to pull them from certain warehouses and are going to stop replacing R20s with another R20 so obviously there must be an issue.

It also wouldn't surprise me if someone did indeed decide its worth it to wait until a house burns down. Katrina and the levies come to mind--greed makes people do lousy things. I understand how much money DirecTV would lose if they completely recalled every H20 as a preventive measure and it's a big loss.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Hmm, seems to me like you ordered D* service and a certain number of receivers and that's exactly what you got.

Apparently a credit was missing on your fist bill and they've stated it will be on the next one. 

What's the issue?

You've heard one of your boxes is not good, due to the model number? If it fails, they'll send you another (maybe minus $20 shipping). 

Seems to me like you received everything you ordered. Why the long post? You didn't tell them ahead of time you had a referral? You didn't get the boxes you would rather have (although the ones you received are apparently functioning correctly)?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Shades, thats only one post. Theres many more out there. And reading those posts stating even after being repaired they are still melting--its not very reassuring. The entire point of the argument is if they know theres problems with this model with one being they can melt, why are they still so resistant on swapping it out? Apparently they are now starting to pull them from certain warehouses and are going to stop replacing R20s with another R20 so obviously there must be an issue.
> 
> It also wouldn't surprise me if someone did indeed decide its worth it to wait until a house burns down. Katrina and the levies come to mind--greed makes people do lousy things. I understand how much money DirecTV would lose if they completely recalled every H20 as a preventive measure and it's a big loss.


I'm not saying the H20 is perfect and has no issues. I'm saying that the overheating recall is over and the issue was resolved. Now if they find out that he steps taken for those didn't work and are now having SFSS issues then that's something else.

However if you had an H21 and it went out they had to replace it they won't tell you that you get another H21 either so you could get a H20 at that point. Get another HD DVR those all have ethernet guaranteed.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

There is no issue with _your _H20. Problem resolved.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah tcusta, and there was no issue with any of the others either...until they melted. I'd rather swap it out before possibly having my house catch on fire. I'm proactive like that.

And what I'm saying is that according to those posts the overheating issue isn't resolved. They're still being flooded with service calls regarding overheating issues even after being repaired. 

And your right, theres no guarantee on the model you would get on a replacement, but they would make the box comparable. For example, when boxes that were replaced which had an OTA connection with one that didn't customers got a free kit to give them OTA capabilities. I'm starting out my service with an outdated box right out of the gate and my only option is to not only take the $99 loss on that receiver plus pay to ship it back, but also to buy a new replacement model, which again would be considered an upgrade and extend my contract. It makes no sense.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

DonkeyJab said:


> And what I'm saying is that according to those posts the overheating issue isn't resolved. They're still being flooded with service calls regarding overheating issues even after being repaired.


Your box is not broken. You obviously have another (stated) ulterior motive.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Obviously, considering I stated all my "ulterior motives". The H20 overheating is one of many other issues. And like I said in my last post, none of the H20s were broken until they melted. No soup for you!


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

DonkeyJab said:


> Obviously, considering I stated all my "ulterior motives". The H20 overheating is one of many other issues. And like I said in my last post, none of the H20s were broken until they melted. No soup for you!


When yours melts you get a new one. When your Chevy's electrical system fails they fix it, not before it's recalled or before it breaks. It's simple.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

It already had a volunteer recall last year. Techs are still complaining about the repeated service calls to this day. Even after whatever band-aid they use to fix the issue isn't working. Why did DirecTV actively call customers and set up a special 800 number to swap that model out last year? And as I said, I would rather have it swapped out then chance my house catching on fire....its as simple as that. We're not talking about a software issue here.


But I tell ya what. Lets put your kid in a locked room with a 5 time convicted child molester and leave the room. Don't worry, he didn't touch him yet, he'll be fine! I can see how that makes perfect sense.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Good luck with the BBB and your next TV service provider.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Thank you sir.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Yeah tcusta, and there was no issue with any of the others either...until they melted. I'd rather swap it out before possibly having my house catch on fire. I'm proactive like that.
> 
> And what I'm saying is that according to those posts the overheating issue isn't resolved. They're still being flooded with service calls regarding overheating issues even after being repaired.
> 
> And your right, theres no guarantee on the model you would get on a replacement, but they would make the box comparable. For example, when boxes that were replaced which had an OTA connection with one that didn't customers got a free kit to give them OTA capabilities. I'm starting out my service with an outdated box right out of the gate and my only option is to not only take the $99 loss on that receiver plus pay to ship it back, but also to buy a new replacement model, which again would be considered an upgrade and extend my contract. It makes no sense.


If you knew you didnt want that model then the only way to make sure would of been for you to get it yourself from Best Buy or Solid Signal or something like that. Why was it not more of a big deal to you before the install? Were you so sure you wouldnt get one? Another thing you could of done was said okay take that reciever with you and then get the other one from Best Buy or Solid Signal after the fact. He probably had the line ran anyways before you know what reciever he was going to install.

Bottom line you accepted it initially but are now not happy with it. Like I said I really hope you get it resolved as I want all new customers to be happy with D*. That being said I really wish you had handled it differently as well. Chalk it up to a learning experience. In the future if something happens that is unaccceptable then take care of it right then.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Yeah tcusta, and there was no issue with any of the others either...until they melted. I'd rather swap it out before possibly having my house catch on fire. I'm proactive like that.
> 
> And what I'm saying is that according to those posts the overheating issue isn't resolved. They're still being flooded with service calls regarding overheating issues even after being repaired.
> 
> And your right, theres no guarantee on the model you would get on a replacement, but they would make the box comparable. For example, when boxes that were replaced which had an OTA connection with one that didn't customers got a free kit to give them OTA capabilities. I'm starting out my service with an outdated box right out of the gate and my only option is to not only take the $99 loss on that receiver plus pay to ship it back, but also to buy a new replacement model, which again would be considered an upgrade and extend my contract. It makes no sense.


It's not outdated. You can't view pictures on it but you can get OTA. So it might have a different feature but it's works fine. That is a comparable model and people who had OTA and lost it only received a free AM 21 if they lived in an area that did not have locals so they paid more to get one with OTA capabilities to begin with.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe that you read on the internet. Either way it won't change so you can say what might happen in the future all you want but they don't have to do anything until it has the problem.

You don't waste the $99 if you put that receiver on another TV btw you can keep it you don't have to send it back unless you disconnect it. You just signed up what's 1 more month on the agreement? $20 if you wanted to cancel on the original date.

Either way it's not a customer service issue since you don't have any real issues anymore. Now it's just your lack of preperation or setting expectations to yourself that DirecTV isn't going to do.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

My H20-600 has been working fine for years wouldn't want a different receiver.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Since you're so worried about the H20, then how quickly did you unplug it after it got warm? Right away? If not, then I guess there is no issue.

You should have went & bought a H2x for $99 and been done with.


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## rsteinfe (May 7, 2005)

Regardless of the details of this particular situation, the "big picture" is that DirecTV continues to have a customer service problem. There are currently 3 or 4 customer service threads at the top of this forum.

It is not impossible to have an effective customer service operation. For example, upstate NY shoppers would recognize the name of a grocery chain which is always at or near the top of a national consumer magazine best grocery store list, and is in the same position in another magazine's "best places to work" list. A friend stopped into one of their stores looking to purchase veal. They were out of veal, so the meat manager contacted another store in the chain and told the customer that veal was available at that branch. She replied that she was new in the area, and had no idea how to drive to the other branch. At this point, the meat manager drove his car to the other branch, and returned with the veal. He told the customer that there was no charge for the meat, apologized for not having it in stock and thanked her for her patience while he took care of her problem. 

That, folks, is customer service. This chain empowers its employees to solve customer problems, and stands behind them when they do. She has told at least a dozen people about this, and the store couldn't buy this kind of good will and advertising. People with business experience will tell you that if she had gone away unhappy with her experience, she would have told several dozen others.

Is this kind of service impossible for DirecTV? Or has DirecTV become so big--and customers seen as a replaceable commodity--that they remind us of the old sketch from "Laugh -In" where Lily Tomlin played Ernestine, the telephone operator. When customers called with a problem she told them, "We don't care...We don't have to, we're the phone company!"


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

rsteinfe said:


> Regardless of the details of this particular situation, the "big picture" is that DirecTV continues to have a customer service problem. There are currently 3 or 4 customer service threads at the top of this forum.
> 
> It is not impossible to have an effective customer service operation. For example, upstate NY shoppers would recognize the name of a grocery chain which is always at or near the top of a national consumer magazine best grocery store list, and is in the same position in another magazine's "best places to work" list. A friend stopped into one of their stores looking to purchase veal. They were out of veal, so the meat manager contacted another store in the chain and told the customer that veal was available at that branch. She replied that she was new in the area, and had no idea how to drive to the other branch. At this point, the meat manager drove his car to the other branch, and returned with the veal. He told the customer that there was no charge for the meat, apologized for not having it in stock and thanked her for her patience while he took care of her problem.
> 
> ...


Your story is poignant but in no way applies to this situation. He was offered a way to fix the AAA problem (but decided against accepting it). He was offered a resolution to the rebate situation. He was given a receiver that works. I don't get the connection.


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## rsteinfe (May 7, 2005)

Please have another look at my first paragraph. I am claiming no particular connection to this particular situation, but am commenting on the general state of DirecTV customer service.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

rsteinfe said:


> Please have another look at my first paragraph. I am claiming no particular connection to this particular situation, but am commenting on the general state of DirecTV customer service.


Oh, okay.

:backtotop


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Let's go under the 2% rule. 2% of all customers will be happy no matter what with the company they do business with, 96% of customers are subject to whims of happiness with that company and the final 2% will never be happy with that company.

So 2% of 18.3 mil is 366000 people will no matter what never be happy. So I'd say the limited posts that this place, and other non complaint focused websites, indicates that while they have problems it's relative to the number of customers. Especially since posters like the OP show up all in a rage and then usually disappear faster then we decide we're done with a thread.

So DirecTV will never be without complaints and there will always be places any company could do better. Not all situations will be handled the best or the worst. 

So far the only issue that DirecTV has on his account was his rebate not on his first bill. Everything else was offered to be corrected or is how they do business normally that the OP didn't bother researching. He only went looking for issues once he didn't get the ability to look at pictures on his TV with the H20 and found an issue that he wants to hold onto like Cubs fans and Sammy Sosa.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes shades, I'm in a boiling rage...foaming at the mouth even! Theres quite a few posts that seem to be pretty condescending and defensive so I'm not sure where the rage statement is actually coming from. But considering your using statements like "the OP show up all in a rage and then usually disappear faster then we decide we're done with a thread." I'll take that to mean you and your group of merry men who defend DirecTV to the death...which is fine--Nothing wrong with that.

And the assumption "He only went looking for issues once he didn't get the ability to look at pictures on his TV with the H20 and found an issue that he wants to hold onto like Cubs fans and Sammy Sosa." is also wrong but your free to assume. I already explained there was one issue after another which snowballed. The overheating issue keeps being brought up by other members, to me its one issue of many. 

Every problem a customer has can usually be defended by "hey, its in the contract, or you should have done more research, its how we do business!" It doesn't change anything that happened, and as rsteinfe stated each business conducts itself in different ways. The problem here is I can't just walk to another store, DirecTV wants to keep me for two years, longer if I take their advice and buy an upgraded box.

Now I apologize if a thread titled "DirecTV General Discussion" doesn't have room for complaint threads and its not to your liking, but I wouldn't even call it a complaint. My issues are already over in that the contract was breached when the agreement wasn't met for the rebate on my first bill. I'm not mad at all, just inconvenienced. I chalk it up to "doing my research".


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

As I stated before. I offered you help but you apparently did not want it. If you dont want our help then let it go!


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

And I told you why a supervisors name would be of no use now. I already tried going through their normal channels and escalated support. I said in my very first post I was just sharing my experience, from then out it was replying to other threads, so what is it you want me to let go of?


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Has their been any reported h20-600 actually catching on fire? 
Mine feels hot to the touch but i can keep my hand on it without getting burnt.
What i am getting at is this a safety or reliability problem? 
I really can't see it catching the house on fire.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

gfrang said:


> Has their been any reported h20-600 actually catching on fire?
> Mine feels hot to the touch but i can keep my hand on it without getting burnt.
> What i am getting at is this a safety issue or a reliability problem?
> I really can't see it catching the house on fire.


I haven't heard of any actually with flames but from other posts I have heard of smoke and burn marks. Smoke being from the melting of the access card.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Yes shades, I'm in a boiling rage...foaming at the mouth even! Theres quite a few posts that seem to be pretty condescending and defensive so I'm not sure where the rage statement is actually coming from. But considering your using statements like "the OP show up all in a rage and then usually disappear faster then we decide we're done with a thread." I'll take that to mean you and your group of merry men who defend DirecTV to the death...which is fine--Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> And the assumption "He only went looking for issues once he didn't get the ability to look at pictures on his TV with the H20 and found an issue that he wants to hold onto like Cubs fans and Sammy Sosa." is also wrong but your free to assume. I already explained there was one issue after another which snowballed. The overheating issue keeps being brought up by other members, to me its one issue of many.
> 
> ...


I don't recall saying you were in a rage. I do recall saying that posters show up here in a rage and disappear. This was in response to the directv does have customer service issue posts.

The Sammy Sosa was a joke sorry if you didn't take it that way as the poster who posted the other thing has a Cubs logo as an avatar. You keep stating that you want that H20 replaced because they can overheat. Then you state you wanted a H21 because it can have pictures. You did searches to find out about the H20. You already knew on the back that it didn't have ethernet so why you would start searching for H20 things then who knows. So yes I assume that you went to look to find a reason to validate your want of another model other then wanting to have ethernet. So if you didn't ok.

You keep saying that you would have to stay another 2 years. This leads me to believe you think would be in a 4 year agreement. It's 24 months from the date you activate the HD DVR. This would mean that you would be extended a couple of months maximum. It's $20 a month if you hate it that much after your first 24 months are up it would still be cheaper then 1 more month of programming to cancel for 2 months.

Either way you posted your concerns and your situation. If you look around here you'll find that people always try to help with a situation. Some things people can help with others people can't. Some things people find understandable and some don't. That's just the way it works. To ask to get something replaced because ti could ahve a problem is not really something that most people would agree with. Sure some might but to each their own.

As far as the agreement you're the only one who keeps bringing it up. I could spout off how your agreement was not invalidated because it has nothing to do with promotions it has to do with installation and activation of equipment. Promotions or programming discounts do not have any impact on programming requirements. The reason for that is because you can drop to Family which is not eligible for discounts but meets the minimum programming requirements.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

"I don't recall saying you were in a rage."

"Especially since posters like the OP show up all in a rage and then usually disappear faster then we decide we're done with a thread."

Maybe I misunderstood. I explained why I looked up more information on the H20 running hot in post 19. I didn't say I would have to stay another 2 years, just that my contract would be extended. The agreement comes up so often because its the basis for every rebuttal DirecTV made. And the agreement has everything to do with agreed upon price, whether they include rebates, discounted offers, employee discounts, etc. When you agree to a price, thats the price--how it got to that amount is irrelevant. If thats the argument they want to make at the arbitration hearing thats fine. 

gfrang, I only seen one report where the guy said the box literally burst into flames--whether it's true who knows. All the other reports were more along the lines of smoke, sparks, melted components, and fried access cards.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

he should have gotten new equipment with a new install... plain and simple they can send out whatever after the fact but new should be new.

However, if i was him i would not have let the installer install used equipment. you were in too much of a rush to get service and could have gotten it right


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

bcrab said:


> Bottom line IMO A new customer should have NEW equipment, not someone else headache 'refurb'. It's kinda like leasing a new car and The salesman shows up in your driveway with your new car. A '76 pinto.


Look at cable companies. Do you think they give people new boxes? No. Same thing... You call used equipment headaches, but I would imagine that the majority of equipment that is refurbished is simply product that was returned when people have decided to change service providers, and was never a headache for anyone.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

compnurd said:


> he should have gotten new equipment with a new install... plain and simple they can send out whatever after the fact but new should be new.


New customers usually get deep discounts on programming and free (and/or discounted) equipment. Existing customers who are paying full price for programming will usually have to pay full price to add or upgrade equipment. Both have equal chances of getting new vs. used/refurbished equipment, backed by the same warranty. It sounds pretty fair to me.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Donkey Jam I am just looking for the bottom line here,this is what you stated in your first post: All I wanted was to swap out the H20-600...THATS IT! 

So i guess if you got another receiver you be happy right? Well if it doesn't work right than i am sure they will send you a replacement, if you feel it is overheating and causing other problems like pixiation and or breakup.

I would not mention about fear of your house burning down,i just don't think that will work.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

A cable company never charged me an upfront fee for the boxes. I'm sure some providers may, but the 3 I've dealt with in the last 20 years never have. They also never held me to a contract. If a box failed they sent a tech to my home for free to swap it out. If a box failed or I wanted a new model I wouldn't be put into an extended contract either. This is one of the policies that make no sense to me. In all honesty, why can't D* give new equipment to new customers and recycle the refurbs to customers who need a box replaced for whatever reason under warranty? 

If I go to buy a cell phone I know I'm getting a new model for free or deeply discounted. If they offer refurbished models they're listed separately for obviously less than a new model. Any other retailer I can think of does this as well. I never heard of any company charging the same fee for used equipment that they charge for new. And again, if the phone breaks down its replaced if under warranty without extending your contract. I had a Logitech remote go bad a little over a year of ownership, I called in to troubleshoot the problem and they sent me a brand new $200 remote for free and said to keep the old one. I tell everyone involved in computers about that company--I used to praise Dell for the same reasons many years ago.

That really doesn't matter though as I chose to enter the 2 year agreement never thinking one problem would lead to another and snowball to what it did. As I said, they can respond to %90 of customer complaints and always say its their policy, or its in the contract--it doesn't make it good customer service. And I truly do believe alot of that has to do with hanging a contract over your head. Why else would they sneak in extended contracts on replacement models to customers who've been with them for years? Not a good policy.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

:beatdeadhorse:


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

DonkeyJab said:


> A cable company never charged me an upfront fee for the boxes. I'm sure some providers may, but the 3 I've dealt with in the last 20 years never have. They also never held me to a contract. If a box failed they sent a tech to my home for free to swap it out. If a box failed or I wanted a new model I wouldn't be put into an extended contract either. This is one of the policies that make no sense to me. In all honesty, why can't D* give new equipment to new customers and recycle the refurbs to customers who need a box replaced for whatever reason under warranty?
> 
> If I go to buy a cell phone I know I'm getting a new model for free or deeply discounted. If they offer refurbished models they're listed separately for obviously less than a new model. Any other retailer I can think of does this as well. I never heard of any company charging the same fee for used equipment that they charge for new. And again, if the phone breaks down its replaced if under warranty without extending your contract. I had a Logitech remote go bad a little over a year of ownership, I called in to troubleshoot the problem and they sent me a brand new $200 remote for free and said to keep the old one. I tell everyone involved in computers about that company--I used to praise Dell for the same reasons many years ago.
> 
> That really doesn't matter though as I chose to enter the 2 year agreement never thinking one problem would lead to another and snowball to what it did. As I said, they can respond to %90 of customer complaints and always say its their policy, or its in the contract--it doesn't make it good customer service. And I truly do believe alot of that has to do with hanging a contract over your head. Why else would they sneak in extended contracts on replacement models to customers who've been with them for years? Not a good policy.


The grass isn't always greener. :grin:

Our local cable company would charge me ≈$45 for hardware vs ≈$16 with DirecTV.

When I last calculated it all out; with the same channels I get now; assuming I paid $200 per HR2x, totaling $600, I would still pay >$1500 more for cable over the two year period.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2008292&postcount=354

It's something to consider in you analysis. Keep in mind that your local cable might cost less.

Mike


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

DonkeyJab said:


> Doug, this is how I ended my first BBB complaint:
> 
> As a new customer I had no idea they would charge an upfront equipment fee only to send discontinued refurbished units. At the very least its the H20-600 I would like exchanged due to the recall and lack of ethernet port.
> 
> ...


Unless I have read something wrong, you have stated you have not once just picked up a phone and called them right? Why the heck send a letter to the BBB if you haven't even just tried calling them? I'd call, say cancel when the automated system picks up, get retention, explain the situation, and see what happens. I'll bet they can get your rebates and everything else too..... I think its funny you immediately jump to a company that doesn't actually have any authority to do anything at all from a legal standpoint.... Its like hiring a lawyer and asking him to attack the company without asking them if they can fix it first. And no, emails do not cover it when it comes to fixing issues like this when they are complex, because you cant be sure they interpret your email properly, as obviously they did not interpret your emails concisely.

And you have shown that you did not want to follow a course of action that would have fixed one problem, that had in your mind had no barring other than to foster sympathy, to fix another issue. You should not have mentioned anything that wasn't directly relevant to what you want.. because that sounds like your complaining and asking for something else because of it, rather than just swapping the one box for a legitimate reason, which is what you are after. What you ask for and how you ask for it is the most important part when dealing with issues such as these.

The best thing you could have done if you where sending an email was to explain you want Media share, point to something that shows it is officially released (in June), and then explained you wanted a new box for that reason only. Everything else was frivolous, and diluted the real request with the best and only truly relevant reasoning from being seen.

I am not saying you did not write a good email, etc, I have not seen it. I am explain it to you from the point of view of a manger of retail, and explain to you what really matters, which is a true, specific problem, and a real solution. I would likely have understood what you where after, but Many people in the retail world do not understand that many layers in an email, and I would imagine thats the same everywhere. Write for your audience... (you wouldn't believe the emails I have had to deal with from BUYERS!!!!) and unfortunately, when your job is reading emails all day, its the bottom line, and the reasoning behind it. Your email obviously did not have a simple bottom line in this case that they understood.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

Ah... You can never be sure your in a DBStalk Directv forum without the directv shills bashing new customers and blaming them for anything that happens.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Zellio said:


> Ah... You can never be sure your in a DBStalk Directv forum without the directv shills bashing new customers and blaming them for anything that happens.


No kidding. _"You shoulda done more homework."_


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> The grass isn't always greener. :grin:
> 
> Our local cable company would charge me ≈$45 for hardware vs ≈$16 with DirecTV.
> 
> ...


No kidding, Mike! When I called Charter to switch my phone and Internet from AT&T, they tried to sell me on TV service. I said no thanks, I am happy with D*. The rep insisted she could save me money and asked what I had with D*. I told her, 4 HD-DVR's, 1 SD-DVR, and 1 HD receiver. She added that up and the monthly fee just for leasing the equipment was almost $100! She then asked what I pay D* and I told her $110. At first, she said she was saving me over $10/mo, but then she "forgot" to add the extra $65 for cable programming.

Of course the reason why I only pay $5/mo for the extra 5 receivers is because I paid up-front lease fees. In my case, I think I've paid about $700 over three years for equipment. That's about how much extra I'd spend on cable for *one* year!


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

If a different reciever will make you happy why not just order one from Solid Signal and then when you get it and activate it just deactivate the one you dont want and send it back? At least this way you will have the reciever you wanted and be out what $100? It would extend your contract by a few days. Is it really worth all the fuss?

http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=02&CAT=DIRECTV Receivers


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

inkahuts, I wasn't trying to use the BBB as an attorney or to have any legal relief, rather a way to reach a higher level of support. Some sites list D*'s executive emails but I never really found it appropriate to email them over customer issues. 

The other reason I went through the BBB and chose to use email after normal customer support couldn't help is to have everything in writing. It makes things much easier when having to refer back to prior conversations, or if theres a discrepancy in the conversation/agreed to terms. I'm sure working in retail you hear stories how a sales rep said one thing on the phone, the customer says the conversation was entirely different. 

And I do agree with alot of what you said, I truly do. Believe me, I never expected things to snowball the way they did--nor did I want them to. It cost me well over $99 it would have cost to just buy another receiver by spending hours fighting this thing, the upfront fee for JAMS, and having to mail out numerous copies of certified documents. It's not fun. 

And again, the reason I included all the other issues is because it all piled up within the first week of being a customer and I wanted them to understand I already took quite a few losses myself, whosever fault it was in legal terms. It's not that those other issues didn't matter to me because they certainly did. It's just that I would have been content with just swapping out the H20 as the media share function is something I would use often. My only concern was please don't make me spend even more money after everything that happened in a period of a week and simply understanding I gave up a few things in compromise as well! 

I will take your advice though and contact retention. This wasn't done in the beginning because I had no plans on canceling. It wasn't until the final response through the BBB that I started drafting everything up for arbitration. I have 4 nice neat stacks ready to go that I finished yesterday but had no legal sized envelopes. In any case I'll let you know how it turns out tomorrow and I thank you for the suggestion.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

DonkeyJab said:


> In all honesty, why can't D* give new equipment to new customers and recycle the refurbs to customers who need a box replaced for whatever reason under warranty?


They do that too. If they have boxed that have been returned for whatever reason and the boxes are fully functional, they give them to whomever.



DonkeyJab said:


> If I go to buy a cell phone I know I'm getting a new model for free or deeply discounted. If they offer refurbished models they're listed separately for obviously less than a new model. Any other retailer I can think of does this as well. I never heard of any company charging the same fee for used equipment that they charge for new.


The cell phone analogy makes no sense. When you lease a house, do you think it's brand new? No, someone else has probably used it. That analogy makes as much sense as the cell phone one.

When I used to be with cable, I always got used boxes. No big deal. I'd sign up for service and they'd bring me a box and remote. Some were scratched and beat up, but as long as they worked, that's all that matters.

If they gave out new boxes to every new customer, what would they do with all the functional used boxes? Throw them away? What do you think that would do to your costs? You can't have it both ways.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Zellio said:


> Ah... You can never be sure your in a DBStalk Directv forum without the directv shills bashing new customers and blaming them for anything that happens.


Yep...It's never Directs fault.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

DonkeyJab said:


> inkahuts, I wasn't trying to use the BBB as an attorney or to have any legal relief, rather a way to reach a higher level of support. Some sites list D*'s executive emails but I never really found it appropriate to email them over customer issues.
> 
> The other reason I went through the BBB and chose to use email after normal customer support couldn't help is to have everything in writing. It makes things much easier when having to refer back to prior conversations, or if theres a discrepancy in the conversation/agreed to terms. I'm sure working in retail you hear stories how a sales rep said one thing on the phone, the customer says the conversation was entirely different.
> 
> ...


I more than agree with the paper trail aspect, however, I think a phone call or two and careful notes are always the best solutions at the beginning of a problem, and then escalate to the letters. Just personal experience on that one. Too many reasons to list at this time of night on why thats the best way to go IMHO.

Frankly, to someone who has dealt with the BBB, they are a joke in my mind at this point. I don't think they elicit any worry or escalation on the part of any company that truly understands what the BBB does these days. They are more of an annoyance than anything else.

I always appreciated a conversation, in person or on the phone far more than any letter when an issue of any kind arrived, at least to get the ball rolling. And 9 times out of 10, issues can actually be resolved without getting higher ups involved. I suspect retention is as high up as you need to go.

I really hope your call tomorrow fixes everything. I think if you approach it right, and with a little luck, it will! And you'll still be enjoying Directv at the end of it all as well!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Zellio said:


> Ah... You can never be sure your in a DBStalk Directv forum without the directv shills bashing new customers and blaming them for anything that happens.


Yeah, only you should be allowed to express your opinion on a matter because only you have a non one sided response to offer. And nothing is ever a customers fault. Its always Directv's right? :nono2:

In this case, frankly, I don't think its really either's fault in general, and I really don't see how putting blame is helping anyone. I think helping him figure out his next move that will fix his issues and make him happy is far more important. There are things he could have done different, and things Directv could have done different, but neither one has actually done anything that is truly wrong, at least not at the beginning of all this, from what has been posted. Heck, we don't even have all the details, because I haven't read his emails and their responses. Nor do I want to. Not my business to read them. Simply to offer my suggestions on how he might be able to solve this and move on to something more important, like what movie to see next Friday  ha, if only that was anyones only important next decision...


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

I see... If your aren't blaming the customer then it has to be Directv's fault?

The guy was a new customer. You shouldn't be bashing him like this.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Zellio said:


> I see... If your aren't blaming the customer then it has to be Directv's fault?
> 
> The guy was a new customer. You shouldn't be bashing him like this.


And your helpful information for the OP would be what?

:backtotop

Mike


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

MicroBeta said:


> And your helpful information for the OP would be what?
> 
> :backtotop
> 
> Mike


Quit trying to turn this to me. I'm giving ALOT more usefull information then most other people here.

The OP came here with his story, and everyone jumped on him because he said something bad about Directv! That is shilling for a company no matter what you want to say.

You have no reason to believe or not believe his story, yet the moment Directv is mentioned you agree with D*'s stance and bash the OP.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

None of you gave the OP any usefull helpful information. None of you wanted to help the OP, you simply wanted to blame him for what happened. You want to talk to me about giving the OP helpful information?

You guys may want to think about what helpful information is before posting.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Zellio said:


> None of you gave the OP any usefull helpful information. None of you wanted to help the OP, you simply wanted to blame him for what happened. You want to talk to me about giving the OP helpful information?
> 
> You guys may want to think about what helpful information is before posting.


I posted once in this thread and didn't not bash the OP nor wrote a single word about DirecTV. Please keep the discussion on topic.

:backtotop

Mike


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

Alright, but it's amusing that all of a sudden people want this conversation to stay on topic after I mention that people are bashing the OP...

Where were people asking for the convo to stay on topic when everyone was blaming the OP?


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

For the OP, It was a bit harsh to cancel service just like that IMO. I would've stayed. In fact, the hr20 is the fastest clicking of the HDDVRS, so you actually were getting a better dvr then the hr21 and above...

Really though, I don't blame you. But I would've stayed for that fact.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Zellio said:


> Quit trying to turn this to me. I'm giving ALOT more usefull information then most other people here.
> 
> The OP came here with his story, and everyone jumped on him because he said something bad about Directv! That is shilling for a company no matter what you want to say.
> 
> You have no reason to believe or not believe his story, *yet the moment Directv is mentioned you agree with D*'s stance and bash the OP*.


I dont really think thats the case. I think it is that if enough research is done that you can be fully aware of most the issues he had and be better equiped on how to handle them is all. To me I am not really taking either side as both are partially to blame in my book. Whats the old saying? Knowledge is power?


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Zellio said:


> *None of you gave the OP any usefull helpful information.* None of you wanted to help the OP, you simply wanted to blame him for what happened. You want to talk to me about giving the OP helpful information?
> 
> You guys may want to think about what helpful information is before posting.


I offered a higher up contact then he had already talked with and he didnt want it, so dont say we were not trying to help. I also threw out the recommdation that he go buy the reciever he wanted and then just deactivate the other one and send it back so he could feel at ease. Either way I attempted to help him but he was not interested.


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## swans (Jan 23, 2007)

bcrab said:


> Yep...It's never Directs fault.


their walk is falling to the side. Why must companies use bogus guidelines in order for customers to jump through hoops. If you are elgible for AAA and ask for it, then give it to them. If you have a referral from a friend, don't make them call some other number, give them the referral. Stop using rebates as a deterent, give them the discount!

DirecTV is becoming just like any other company that thinks their stuff doesn't stink. I'm starting to smell it myself


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

swans said:


> their walk is falling to the side. Why must companies use bogus guidelines in order for customers to jump through hoops. If you are elgible for AAA and ask for it, then give it to them. If you have a referral from a friend, don't make them call some other number, give them the referral. Stop using rebates as a deterent, give them the discount!
> 
> DirecTV is becoming just like any other company that thinks their stuff doesn't stink. I'm starting to smell it myself


I agree with this. Even Best buy which i hate to shop at has moved away from rebate hoop jumping.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

swans said:


> their walk is falling to the side. Why must companies use bogus guidelines in order for customers to jump through hoops. If you are elgible for AAA and ask for it, then give it to them. If you have a referral from a friend, don't make them call some other number, give them the referral. Stop using rebates as a deterent, give them the discount!
> 
> DirecTV is becoming just like any other company that thinks their stuff doesn't stink. I'm starting to smell it myself


Good, somebody who isn't a blind Directv fanboy. If directv said you were getting a discount, then it's false advertising/bait and switch if they don't give it to you.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

swans said:


> their walk is falling to the side. Why must companies use bogus guidelines in order for customers to jump through hoops. If you are elgible for AAA and ask for it, then give it to them. If you have a referral from a friend, don't make them call some other number, give them the referral. Stop using rebates as a deterent, give them the discount!
> 
> DirecTV is becoming just like any other company that thinks their stuff doesn't stink. I'm starting to smell it myself


It's difficult enough that there have been quite a few complaints with whole referal & AAA discounts.

I don't understand why their website doesn't have at least a note as to which number to call for what kind of discount.

I know that OP was concerned about already having the install already scheduled but it probably would have saved a lot of aggravation to have canceled and started all over again as suggested.

Then again if it weren't so difficult to begin with, there wouldn't have been any aggravation in the first place.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Zellio said:


> Good, somebody who isn't a blind Directv fanboy. If directv said you were getting a discount, then it's false advertising/bait and switch if they don't give it to you.


While you have a valid point, the OP could've canceled the install as suggested and avoided all the angst.

It's true that it shouldn't have gotten to the point of having to cancel in the first place. However, once the OP was told the only way to get the discount was to cancel and call the 800 number and didn't, I'm unclear how expected to get the discount. I guess I'm saying that DirecTV screwed this up from the get go but the OP was given a remedy and chose not to use it. Do you think that's a fair assessment or am I missing something?

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Calm down people .. Either get back to a civil conversation or this thread gos bye-bye .. I really don't want to do that.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

I do find it interesting how the $100 referral ads on TV now have a notice at the very end that "You must call 1-800... and provide the account number of your friend" to receive the credit. I know that a few weeks ago that little tidbit wasn't as emphasized before.

- Merg


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I do find it interesting how the $100 referral ads on TV now have a notice at the very end that "You must call 1-800... and provide the account number of your friend" to receive the credit. I know that a few weeks ago that little tidbit wasn't as emphasized before.
> 
> - Merg


Yes, that wasn't always there, but I'm pretty sure that it has been there since the $100 fee was implemented. At least I remember seeing it for the first time about the time the $100 started.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Yes, that wasn't always there, but I'm pretty sure that it has been there since the $100 fee was implemented. At least I remember seeing it for the first time about the time the $100 started.


Maybe I was thinking of the $50 referral credit ads that didn't have that tidbit. It is nice that it is now "big and bold".

- Merg


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

MicroBeta said:


> While you have a valid point, the OP could've canceled the install as suggested and avoided all the angst.
> 
> It's true that it shouldn't have gotten to the point of having to cancel in the first place. However, once the OP was told the only way to get the discount was to cancel and call the 800 number and didn't, I'm unclear how expected to get the discount. I guess I'm saying that DirecTV screwed this up from the get go but the OP was given a remedy and chose not to use it. Do you think that's a fair assessment or am I missing something?
> 
> Mike


Yeah, it is a fair assessment. Even so, Directv still promised something that should've come thru even if the guy had the order done.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Zellio said:


> Yeah, it is a fair assessment. Even so, Directv still promised something that should've come thru even if the guy had the order done.


How do you know that DIRECTV hasn't come through? All it says here is:



DonkeyJab said:


> Ok, so now my first bill arrives like 3 hours after the installer leaves. J/k--it came a few days later but was surprised how fast it got here.


Perhaps the bill was printed/mailed pretty much right when he ordered thus making it's way through the (slow) US Mail service and reaching the OP after promises were made even though it was likely printed before promises were made.



DonkeyJab said:


> I now notice they didnt put the $21 credit that one is supposed to get for 12 months. I filled out all the forms and made sure it was submitted well before my install date. I got an email confirmation saying it was received and I will see the rebate on my first bill. When I emailed to voice my concern about the missing rebate and the equipment I received I was told it was a computer glitch and I should see the credit next month. Then they stated they have no control over the boxes that are sent out.


Wait a minute .. The OP was told that the rebate would show up beginning on the second bill. Which in reality is probably the first bill post arbitration. Seems like DIRECTV did hold up their promise here even by the OPs admission. It's picking nits to say that it wasn't on the first bill but does make it to the second bill. Either way the situation was made "right."



DonkeyJab said:


> I'm actually laughing about how adamant they are about refusing to swap out the H20 after having it for less than a week. I honestly think all these big companies are relying too heavily on these two year lock-ins and completely disregarding customer service.


This part is a bit unfortunate, but I do feel over time, that this can be remedied. Multi-Room Viewing may be available late this year or early next year and there may be some room to negotiate at that time. Hope is not completely lost.


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

I dunno if this is off topic or not but I just wanted to say something about the H20s. I think that they should start to be eliminated soon. They are the only HD receiver that doesn't have an Ethernet connection. I just think that they are outdated. ALL other HD receivers the HR2x HD DVRs and H21/23 have an Ethernet port built in. 

Now before someone starts flaming me I don't mean take them all out at once. Just stop refurbishing them and sending them back out. Eventually they will dwindle down and out. D* must have already recovered their manufacturing costs on them by now. I agree with a post earlier in this thread that a "NEW" first time subscriber shouldn't get old refurbished equipment. I guess receivers probably dont break and need to be replaced often enough to only use refurbs as replacements instead of new installs:lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

HRJustin said:


> I dunno if this is off topic or not but I just wanted to say something about the H20s. I think that they should start to be eliminated soon. They are the only HD receiver that doesn't have an Ethernet connection. I just think that they are outdated. ALL other HD receivers the HR2x HD DVRs and H21/23 have an Ethernet port built in.
> 
> Now before someone starts flaming me I don't mean take them all out at once. Just stop refurbishing them and sending them back out. Eventually they will dwindle down and out. D* must have already recovered their manufacturing costs on them by now. I agree with a post earlier in this thread that a "NEW" first time subscriber shouldn't get old refurbished equipment. I guess receivers probably dont break and need to be replaced often enough to only use refurbs as replacements instead of new installs:lol:


I am as surprised as you guys that an H20 went out to a new install. I'd certainly hope that an H21 or H23 were placed instead.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

HRJustin said:


> I dunno if this is off topic or not but I just wanted to say something about the H20s. I think that they should start to be eliminated soon. They are the only HD receiver that doesn't have an Ethernet connection. I just think that they are outdated. ALL other HD receivers the HR2x HD DVRs and H21/23 have an Ethernet port built in.
> 
> Now before someone starts flaming me I don't mean take them all out at once. Just stop refurbishing them and sending them back out. Eventually they will dwindle down and out. D* must have already recovered their manufacturing costs on them by now. I agree with a post earlier in this thread that a "NEW" first time subscriber shouldn't get old refurbished equipment. I guess receivers probably dont break and need to be replaced often enough to only use refurbs as replacements instead of new installs:lol:


Well i not going to flame you but in defense of the h20 it is the only HD receiver that has built in OTA which is more important to me than viewing pictures that i can do in the living room on my dvr. So i feel it is still useful to some people.


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## Stanley Kritzik (Aug 4, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Look at cable companies. Do you think they give people new boxes? No. Same thing... You call used equipment headaches, but I would imagine that the majority of equipment that is refurbished is simply product that was returned when people have decided to change service providers, and was never a headache for anyone.


I have a vacation home with Comcast boxes installed there. My car, by now, knows how to drive between the home and the Comcast office/warehouse, as I have, in the past, swapped out boxes over and over again. Finally, after five or six swaps -- the box handed to me each time came off the top of a stack of obviously previously used units; no cardboard, no styrofoam, etc. -- I got two boxes that just worked. It's a bit scary. I do, however, have a few extra power cords, component hook-up wires, and, even an extra remote.

Would I prefer new production, properly boxed and wrapped? Yes, indeed, but I never got that choice.

Stan


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I am as surprised as you guys that an H20 went out to a new install. I'd certainly hope that an H21 or H23 were placed instead.


I had a friend that tried to switch to E* because he wanted his own personal DVR in his room. I tried to tell them that they wouldn't get two separate DVRs with E*:lol:. E* installed the the one 2 TV DVR which they didnt want. E* wouldnt give them two seperate DVRs for each tv. Anyways long story short they wanted two tuners on each DVR to record their own completely separate content. So they ended up going back to D* which right away gave them two R22s and two H20s installed. I think IMO that D* just threw in the second R22 since they already had replace the old receivers anyways for the local 72 swap. They had three D12s and R15 before they tried to switch to E*. 
I was really surprised they got H20s installed instead of h21/23s. They only use them as normal receivers and would never use MRV so they work fine for them. I am extremely happy that I received three H21s for our three d11s from the 72 swap.


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

gfrang said:


> Well i not going to flame you but in defense of the h20 it is the only HD receiver that has built in OTA which is more important to me than viewing pictures that i can do in the living room on my dvr. So i feel it is still useful to some people.


At least all of the other HD receivers can use the AM21 so that should be just as good. I don't use OTA so im not sure of the differences. D* has most of the locals in HD over the satellite. It would be nice to receive the sub channels OTA though I suppose. I guess it would be cleaner looking to have them built in rather then to have a separate box on top. Do the built in OTA tuners of the H20 get better reception or any other differences compared to the AM21?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> "I don't recall saying you were in a rage."
> 
> "Especially since posters like the OP show up all in a rage and then usually disappear faster then we decide we're done with a thread."
> 
> ...


From the DirecTV Equipment Lease Addendum


> *PROGRAMMING TERM.*
> 
> For a new DIRECTV customer, The programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than twenty-four (24) consecutive months. For a current DIRECTV customer, the programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than (a) twelve (12) consecutive months for accounts with only standard receiver(s), or (b) twenty-four (24) consecutive months for accounts with advanced product(s)/receiver(s) (DVR, HD, or HD DVR, including additional DIRECTV receiver(s)). After you have fulfilled the agreement to the required programming package(s), you are not obliged to continue your subscription to DIRECTV programming for any specific duration. Current DIRECTV customers may activate additional receivers with thier existing DIRECTV programming package. *THIS AGREEMENT TO MAINTAIN PROGRAMMING IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS.*




From the service agreement:


> (d) *Our Programming Changes.* Many factors affect the availability, cost and quality of programming and may influence the decision to raise prices and the amount of any increase. These include, among others, programming and other costs, consumer demand, market and shareholder expectations, and changing business conditions. Accordingly, we must reserve the unrestricted right to change, rearrange, add or delete our programming packages, the selections in those packages, our prices, and any other Service we offer, at any time. We will endeavor to notify you of any change that is within our reasonable control and its effective date. In most cases this notice will be about one month in advance. You always have the right to cancel your Service, in whole or in part, if you do not accept the change (see Section 5). If you cancel your Service, a deactivation fee (described in Sections 2 & 5(b)) or other charges may apply. Credits, if any, to your account will be posted as described in Section 5. If you do not cancel, your continued receipt of our Service will constitute acceptance.


So there is a 24 mo agreement as a new customer tied to activating a leased ird that has nothing to do with any other agreement.

They can change or remove discounts/promotions at any time without notice.

The second one I don't think they would ever do as it would cause a nightmare scenario but it does explain that it can change and if you were to cancel over it you would be subject to the cancelation fee.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

HRJustin said:


> At least all of the other HD receivers can use the AM21 so that should be just as good. I don't use OTA so im not sure of the differences. D* has most of the locals in HD over the satellite. It would be nice to receive the sub channels OTA though I suppose. I guess it would be cleaner looking to have them built in rather then to have a separate box on top. Do the built in OTA tuners of the H20 get better reception or any other differences compared to the AM21?


Yes i feel the h20 has a better tuner than the am21 on top of my hr23,it has the LG chip set that i feel is the best in the industry.Not a big deal though, i have no problem whit the am21 just 50 bucks more money.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I remember when I signed up for D*, now it was 9 years a go but , they sent the receivers out Fed EX, I think the Dish too and the installer came out and hooked everyting up. I think for ne customers this should be their policy and they should send new equipment.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dodge boy said:


> I remember when I signed up for D*, now it was 9 years a go but , they sent the receivers out Fed EX, I think the Dish too and the installer came out and hooked everyting up. I think for ne customers this should be their policy and they should send new equipment.


9 years ago equipment was owned not leased so it's not the same.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

"THIS AGREEMENT TO MAINTAIN PROGRAMMING IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS."

I don't see how that has anything to do with showing a breach of the agreement and ending the contract all together. That has more to do with maintaining a certain level of programming while a customer.

The same goes for section (d). That has do do with changes in programming (them dropping or adding channels). It also has to do with if they raise your rates as years go by. And thats how that paragraph ends, if you don't cancel then you accept the new price.


When you buy a car they include all kinds of rebates, discounts, loyalty rewards, etc. After you qualify for whatever discounts and it's agreed you will see them at signing, the final agreed to price is the bottom line price. If I went home and seen they charged the full $30,000 retail price to my account and then said they would give me the $5000 in rebates in a year it would be unacceptable.

And Doug, I was told I would see it on my FIRST bill. After that didn't happen THEN they said it was a computer glitch and would see it begin on my second bill, but I wouldn't see the missed rebate until my 13th. The reply through the BBB said I wasn't even entitled to a rebate on my first bill which is completely untrue and wouldn't say they kept their promise of the agreed to price on my first bill. For some customers that would be satisfactory, for others it's not. If your OK with that then accept receiving the credit in a year, if your not happy with their offer to fix the mistake and can't reach a resolve then you take it to the next level right?

I just got home and need to take care of a few things and then plan on giving them a call.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

DonkeyJab said:


> And Doug, I was told I would see it on my FIRST bill. After that didn't happen THEN they said it was a computer glitch and would see it begin on my second bill, but I wouldn't see the missed rebate until my 13th. The reply through the BBB said I wasn't even entitled to a rebate on my first bill which is completely untrue and wouldn't say they kept their promise of the agreed to price on my first bill. For some customers that would be satisfactory, for others it's not. If your OK with that then accept receiving the credit in a year, if your not happy with their offer to fix the mistake and can't reach a resolve then you take it to the next level right?


So if they told you this AFTER the first bill went out .. exactly how could it be on your first bill? Even DIRECTV can make mistakes. They've already told you that it's been corrected .. I suspect that when you call again today they'll say the same thing .. Check online, the credit may already be on your account. I don't get it .. :shrug:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Strange how all these 'errors' or 'mistakes' always seem to be in the company's favor and never in the customer's, isn't it?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Donkeyjab did you submit your rebate online before you activated the account?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Strange how all these 'errors' or 'mistakes' always seem to be in the company's favor and never in the customer's, isn't it?


Read the post above yours.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> Strange how all these 'errors' or 'mistakes' always seem to be in the company's favor and never in the customer's, isn't it?


Chances are because most people only notice if an amount is higher then normal not lower. Most people wouldn't complain online about getting an aditional credit they would just assume it was a promotion and move on.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> "THIS AGREEMENT TO MAINTAIN PROGRAMMING IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS."
> 
> I don't see how that has anything to do with showing a breach of the agreement and ending the contract all together. That has more to do with maintaining a certain level of programming while a customer.
> 
> ...


If that's what you want to take out of those paragraphs then ok but in legalise that's not what it says.

You haven't purchased anything and you aren't agreeing to a loan. That analogy does not fit this scenario.

Either way I pointed out where it says it so believe it or don't that's your choice.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Your telling me that says DirecTV reserves the right to not honor rebates and thats what those paragraphs say? It doesn't matter what your buying, agreeing to a contract and a certain price remains the same no matter what it is. We'll have to agree to disagree.

And I just got off the phone with customer retention. They can't swap out the H20 because it's in working condition and the heat related issues were fixed months ago. They said if I wanted a specific model I would have to order through an authorized retailer. When I explained that it was the Media Share feature that recent updates enabled before I joined but I couldn't access that feature because of the lack of an Ethernet port, they again suggested I buy an H21 or H23.  

I then asked about the AAA and refer a friend discount to see if I can at least get that to offset buying another receiver myself. I explained what happened, how I emailed the day after ordering online, was told I have to cancel, etc. etc. They asked who said I would have to cancel, I said the original email support and the BBB reply confirmed it. She said if I had called they have people who can modify an account before I signed up to add rebates. I said I wasn't told this in the email--just that I would have to cancel and reorder. So I asked if either can be applied now. She said she had to look to see what offers can be combined etc.--I said no problem.

She comes back and says she doesn't see any notes that she can apply the rebates now that I'm an activated customer. The only suggestion was to email customer service again, explain I'm already a customer and if they can apply either rebate. At this time my cell phone died but it was the end of the call with that being her final suggestion--the only thing I didn't have a chance to bring up was the missed rebate on my first bill. The conversation was polite but they couldn't budge on anything. I didn't even bring up the arbitration as I didn't want to come off sounding like I'm threatening them with it but thats the way it goes. Ah well, I tried.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Can we just start a fund to collect $100 and send it to the OP? geez


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It really might be easier to go to a retail outlet, spend the $100 for the receiver you want and then deactivate the H20.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear that you were mislead by the CSR you spoke to. Although the email you received said that you needed to cancel and reorder. To be safe, that's what you should have done.

The reason companies use rebates vs an upfront discount is because they know that less then 100% will be redeemed. If you read the article in the link below, you will see that it ranges between 5% to 80%, depending on the dollar amount. They also know that some people will misunderstand the rules and will not get the rebate. So anytime there is a rebate involved, it is advisable to read and follow the rules carefully.

Link: Rebate Madness


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

There are also business reasons for some of these rebates. We have no idea if AAA pays DirecTV back for the discount and will not do so if it wasn't validated. The refer a friend we know is so they don't have to pay a comission to a dealer and then payout a comission to the refering person. Not always friendly to a scenario when you're the person out of the rebate but on the same end if it was able to be added on I'm sure that some agents would just tell people they will do it for them rather then have to deal with an upset customer.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Why can't DonkeyJab call Directv and say the reciever is no good and have them send a replacement and he will have it in two days?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

gfrang said:


> Why can't DonkeyJab call Directv and say the reciever is no good and have them send a replacement and he will have it in two days?


Well, the first reason is that it would be fraud (or in VA it would be Larceny by False Pretense)... Shouldn't have to give and more reasons after that one...

- Merg


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

gfrang said:


> Why can't DonkeyJab call Directv and say the reciever is no good and have them send a replacement and he will have it in two days?


They'll send a tech out within 90 days and they would probably send one after that because he's called in about it prior.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I guess all those folks who call DirecTV (or whoever else) saying they are going to cancel just to get discounts will probably also end up in the hoosgow in VA. Wait ... all those who buy stuff from out of state to avoid sales tax ..... and all those who don't report every dribble of income to the IRS ...... :lol:

Besides .. how is it fraud or "larceny by anything?" They are just exchanging one item for another. If DirecTV is dumb enough to do it without sending anyone out to check they're the dummies. I wonder how many receivers get swapped due to just plain lousy CSR tech support.

We have too many self trained sheriff's here. 



The Merg said:


> Well, the first reason is that it would be fraud (or in VA it would be Larceny by False Pretense)... Shouldn't have to give and more reasons after that one...
> 
> - Merg


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:



> We have too many self trained sheriff's here.


Perhaps, but advising ways to violate the terms of service (with DIRECTV in this case) is not something we really want to be discussed here @ DBSTalk.com


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

HRJustin said:


> I had a friend that tried to switch to E* because he wanted his own personal DVR in his room. I tried to tell them that they wouldn't get two separate DVRs with E*:lol:. E* installed the the one 2 TV DVR which they didnt want. E* wouldnt give them two seperate DVRs for each tv. Anyways long story short they wanted two tuners on each DVR to record their own completely separate content. So they ended up going back to D* which right away gave them two R22s and two H20s installed. I think IMO that D* just threw in the second R22 since they already had replace the old receivers anyways for the local 72 swap. They had three D12s and R15 before they tried to switch to E*.
> I was really surprised they got H20s installed instead of h21/23s. They only use them as normal receivers and would never use MRV so they work fine for them. I am extremely happy that I received three H21s for our three d11s from the 72 swap.


I find that to be amazing, E* has two tuner one TV DVRs.

Anyway I still wonder if it is inertia, bad software, bad management or just don't give a darn that D* cannot tell you what model you will receive and E* lets you select the model.

Example: You order a new install with a HD DVR from both. You'll get a HRxx from D* and you can specify a 612,622 or 722 etc. with E*.

Anybody see a problem with the D* system here?

I've had both sevices & Cable over the years. Remember having a seperate subscription for premiums from one company, USSB?, along with the D* subscription?


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> I find that to be amazing, E* has two tuner one TV DVRs.
> 
> Anyway I still wonder if it is inertia, bad software, bad management or just don't give a darn that D* cannot tell you what model you will receive and E* lets you select the model.
> 
> ...


I see a big problem when a company can't make a new customer happy on the first install,new customers should get the equipement that fits their needs and makes them happy.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I don't dispute that at all ..... but the term "illegal" when it should be "against TOS" or "don't discuss that here" is annoying. There is a BIG difference between violating the LAW and swapping out receivers. (/kidding/ Unless you live in Northern VA of course! :lol: )



Doug Brott said:


> Perhaps, but advising ways to violate the terms of service (with DIRECTV in this case) is not something we really want to be discussed here @ DBSTalk.com


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

TBoneit said:


> I find that to be amazing, E* has two tuner one TV DVRs.
> 
> Anyway I still wonder if it is inertia, bad software, bad management or just don't give a darn that D* cannot tell you what model you will receive and E* lets you select the model.
> 
> ...


Dish also charges more for different receivers. Echostar was setup with a better inventory management system from the start because they made their own equipment where DirecTV used vendor and their distribution methods.

I'm more surprised that they just haven't increased the HD size for the Hr20/HR21 that have been manufactured or refurbed. This would basically resolve the main issue people have.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

Shades228 said:


> From the DirecTV Equipment Lease Addendum
> [/B]
> 
> From the service agreement:
> ...


http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm



> Sec. 238.0 Bait advertising defined.1
> 
> *Bait advertising is an alluring but insincere offer to sell a product or service which the advertiser in truth does not intend or want to sell. Its purpose is to switch consumers from buying the advertised merchandise, in order to sell something else, usually at a higher price or on a basis more advantageous to the advertiser. The primary aim of a bait advertisement is to obtain leads as to persons interested in buying merchandise of the type so advertised.
> 
> ...


Directv TOS doesn't protect Directv from THE LAW.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Zellio said:


> Directv TOS doesn't protect Directv from THE LAW.


Where's the bait and switch here? Not to mention that the OP actually had the opportunity to cancel and chose not to.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Where's the bait and switch here? Not to mention that the OP actually had the opportunity to cancel and chose not to.


It's not a "bait and switch". Even though it obviously isn't the best business practice, all of the DirecTV ads I have ever seen (even the ones with a picture of the DVR offered) say "models may vary".

DirecTV knows the law and their ads follow it. But irritating a new customer with discontinued refurbished equipment isn't the best way to start a relationship in my opinion.

If I was a new DirecTV customer, I'd be right there for the installation but first I would do some homework as to which models DirecTV had available. If the installer then tried to give me an ancient, refurbished, discontinued model I would just say "hit the road jack". If you don't sign the installation acceptance document you never agreed to the lease agreement or the commitment and you can cancel. As a courtesy to the installer, I'd ask to see my receivers before he wasted his time running cable or installing a dish, however. It's probably not the installer's fault that he was given old refurb junk to install, and refusing it may send a message back up the chain.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

I know when I joined online and seen all the features listed and the huge pictures of the newer models with its advanced features, that would be the type of model I would receive as a new customer. Even now when you look at their receiver page it states "The most advanced features, all just a click away." The big picture of the new black model has nothing saying display model only or for illustration purposes only. Having a smaller hard drive, lacking an ethernet port, etc. isnt "The most advanced features". Same goes for the price, I didn't think I would be required to pay $99 for a discontinued box that even retailers don't sell anymore.

The thing that sticks out in that bait and switch article is:

(b) Failure to make delivery of the advertised product within a reasonable time or to make a refund,

Failure to make a refund, which I requested a few days after install. I asked for a refund on the H20 and I would purchase from a 3rd party retailer which was denied.

Because they have something buried in the agreement stating they can ship whichever model they want maybe it's just being deceitful as opposed to a bait and switch. To be honest I gave up on trying to make heads or tails of the agreement. In the agreement it states:

DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU.

Then in the PDF documents they have online for the owners manual's at https://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/DTV_SDHDReceiver.pdf

I can't copy/paste from the PDF but it states on page 78 that DirecTV warrants your receiver for a period of 90 days. So which is it, 90 days or no warranty? It gets even murkier when it says in big bold letters that only the original consumer of the box is covered under that warranty and to no other acquirer or transferee. So does that exclude people who get used boxes as they're not the original owner? Who knows. Its completely conflicting information.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

DonkeyJab said:


> Because they have something buried in the agreement stating they can ship whichever model they want maybe it's just being deceitful as opposed to a bait and switch. To be honest I gave up on trying to make heads or tails of the agreement. In the agreement it states:
> 
> DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU.
> 
> ...


I can tell you that the manuals are not updated regularly and are out of date. In the past, DirecTV did offer 90 day warranties on their products prior to the lease model they now use. The leased receivers currently fall under the provision that you quoted from the Equipment Lease Addendum, which is that there is no warranty. However, DirecTV's policy is that they will replace any defective receiver free of charge. The are differences as to whether you pay for S&H or not depending if you have the Protection Plan or not.

- Merg


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The Merg said:


> I can tell you that the manuals are not updated regularly and are out of date. In the past, DirecTV did offer 90 day warranties on their products prior to the lease model they now use. The leased receivers currently fall under the provision that you quoted from the Equipment Lease Addendum, which is that there is no warranty. However, DirecTV's policy is that they will replace any defective receiver free of charge. The are differences as to whether you pay for S&H or not depending if you have the Protection Plan or not.
> 
> - Merg


IIRC, if you purchase the equipment (owned not leased) it does come with a 90 day warranty. Provided equipment (leased not owned) is As-Is.

This always struck me a kind of odd. All the service providers do this as-is thing with their hardware. I especially like how these agreements basically say it works or it doesn't work even so far as to exclude "fitness for a particular purpose". Kinda implies that it's fitness as a receiver is not guaranteed. 

Mike


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

State and local laws may override Directv's policy,but if i wasn't happy whit my purchase or lease i would send it back.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> IIRC, if you purchase the equipment (owned not leased) it does come with a 90 day warranty. Provided equipment (leased not owned) is As-Is.
> 
> This always struck me a kind of odd. All the service providers do this as-is thing with their hardware. I especially like how these agreements basically say it works or it doesn't work even so far as to exclude "fitness for a particular purpose". Kinda implies that it's fitness as a receiver is not guaranteed.
> 
> Mike


I think you're right Micro. Since you can't purchase a new HR2x receiver though, that statement is moot in the HR2x manual. Obviously it would probably apply to the HR21-Pro, but I would assume that unit would have a different manual.

The warranty is also a moot point anyways with the leased receivers as DirecTV will replace any that are defective.

- Merg


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The Merg said:


> I think you're right Micro. Since you can't purchase a new HR2x receiver though, that statement is moot in the HR2x manual. Obviously it would probably apply to the HR21-Pro, but I would assume that unit would have a different manual.
> 
> The warranty is also a moot point anyways with the leased receivers as DirecTV will replace any that are defective.
> 
> - Merg


The HR21Pro is a purchase.

Mike


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> The HR21Pro is a purchase.
> 
> Mike


Right, I was just saying that the manual for the HR21Pro is probably different than the manual for the HR2x series, which I believe is outdated.

- Merg


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

What I dont understand about this entire thread is why they OP even let the installer activate the H20 in the first place. I mean if i was that worried about having a receiver with an Ethernet port I would have just refused the install of the H20. The OP paid the upfront fee for the HD receiver he should get what he wants. 

If the installer wouldn't just do the install without activating the other receiver just cancel the whole thing. Then just reorder to get the free HD DVR as a new customer. The OP could have just went to best buy, online or something and paid the $99 for an H21/23 HD receiver with an Ethernet port. I remember reading that the OP took a day of from work for the install. He must have watched the installer install the equipment.....if he didn't he should have made sure before they were activated.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Right, I was just saying that the manual for the HR21Pro is probably different than the manual for the HR2x series, which I believe is outdated.
> 
> - Merg


I find it pretty amazing that the manuals are so far behind...I don't get it. :scratchin

Mike


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Too much cost to keep them updated and reprint them. Although, I don't know why they just wouldn't keep it in PDF/electronic format. Include a sheet in all the boxes, whether new or refurbished, that the manual for the receiver is located on-line. Some people might not like not getting a hard manual, but if the sheet explained about features changing, I think people would like seeing an up to date manual. They could also just include a quick sheet for some of the standard features that never change.

- Merg


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Too much cost to keep them updated and reprint them. Although, I don't know why they just wouldn't keep it in PDF/electronic format. Include a sheet in all the boxes, whether new or refurbished, that the manual for the receiver is located on-line. Some people might not like not getting a hard manual, but if the sheet explained about features changing, I think people would like seeing an up to date manual. They could also just include a quick sheet for some of the standard features that never change.
> 
> - Merg


Agreed that this would seem to be a solid idea that would help both the consumer and Company.

Of course it might put a little undue stress on our " Clubhouse barristers".

I'm sure it's a heavy burden, to carry that chip around all day that makes one's first overriding and seemingly only impulse to "lawyer up"


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Too much cost to keep them updated and reprint them. Although, I don't know why they just wouldn't keep it in PDF/electronic format. Include a sheet in all the boxes, whether new or refurbished, that the manual for the receiver is located on-line. Some people might not like not getting a hard manual, but if the sheet explained about features changing, I think people would like seeing an up to date manual. They could also just include a quick sheet for some of the standard features that never change.
> 
> - Merg


That's what I don't understand either. If they keep the electronic on up to date, all they would've had to do is provide the link with the hardware. If the customer doesn't have access the installer could provide those few with a copy.

Very disorganized. :nono:

Mike


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Merg, thats the way I understood it also. That leased equipment would be swapped out for free, but then when I seen that lease agreement stating D* takes no responsibility for the boxes it gets confusing. Couldn't they very well refuse to swap out a defective leased box because of that clause in the agreement?

Justin, when the first installers came they were from Scranton, PA which is more of a city/urban. When they came I asked if they had any HR23's on the truck. They said there warehouse were getting steady shipments of them but he wasn't sure what he had that day. So far I was feeling pretty confident. I was also happy because there were two of them and one was a supervisor so I was hoping the install itself would be done well. Anyway, it turned out there were about 5 large trees effecting line of site. So it turned out I had to reschedule anyway which is what I really wanted to avoid. I gave them each $20, said lunch was on me and that was that. The supervisor said he would send out the same installer with a wink and a nod. I figure I take care of them they take care of me. 

I spent a small fortune on taking down 5 trees and D* came back. This time it was a different guy that was by himself. I again asked if he knew if he had the newer H23's on the truck but all he said was that he didn't know--he just installs what they give him. He climbed on the roof and said I had good line of site, then said he would have to drill a hole through my wall. I said if it would make it easier I'd pay for a SWM setup which would save him some time and me having a hole in my wall. He said he didn't have any on the truck, and it wasn't on my work order so I would have to reschedule again and it would be a hassle. I said no problem, gave him a soda and went back to washing my car in the driveway and let him get to work. (Now sure, I could have demanded to see the boxes he had but after talking to the last installer having fresh H23's it didn't cross my mind) He came out awhile later and said I'm all setup, the signals great and I'm good to go. He asked if I needed a walkthrough of how the box works and said thats OK, I like tinkering with new toys. He was a nice enough guy so I gave him a tip, he was very appreciative and off he went and said he had over a 2 hour drive back to NY! What I didnt realize was this installer was from upstate NY which is pretty country and they probably have low stock or don't order new equipment often. I don't know the exact reason, but when I went inside thats when I noticed that every box was what they were. I never even bothered asking what model the HD box would be because as I said, I really thought being that I paid the $99 upfront cost that I would be getting an H21 or H23, I even thought it would be new.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

DonkeyJab said:


> Merg, thats the way I understood it also. That leased equipment would be swapped out for free, but then when I seen that lease agreement stating D* takes no responsibility for the boxes it gets confusing. Couldn't they very well refuse to swap out a defective leased box because of that clause in the agreement?


I think you would find this situation to be very rare.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

In all honesty, I think my entire situation is pretty rare. :lol: What I mean by that is every problem I had they pointed to the agreement and refused to budge, and according to that same policy they could do the same thing if any of my leased boxes did fail. It just gets to a point where its completely lopsided and leaves the consumer with no protection whatsoever.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

All agreements are like this. They are all inclusive to cover issues that may or may not arise. No company follows their agreement to a T or it would be huge issues. They're there for scenarios where fraud and other issues take place. 

It's like reading software EULA's. Agreements are never consumer friendly they're there 100% for the sole protection of a company. Cell phone agreements are even worse however if they ever tried to enforce them to the letter there would be law suits out the wazoo.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Exactly .. not to mention that you always have the choice of walking. Even with commitments, you have to be able to get service, right? If DIRECTV can't deliver the service (won't replace broken receiver), then you wouldn't be held to the commitment.

Keep fraud out of the equation and I don't see why both you and DIRECTV couldn't come to a solution if a replacement receiver is ever needed.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

I never understood how software EULA's worked shades. They put it inside the wrapped version of game/software. If you don't agree to the terms they say not to install it. At the same token most retailers wont accept opened software. The same can be said about certain rebate requirements. They want not only the reciept, the shipping label from the outter box, but also the UPC sticker off the actual product and want it all within 15 days of purchase. By doing that your not only voiding the 30 day return policy but also the manufacturers warranty as they wont service merchandise that has the UPC sticker removed. The point being just because certain companies act a certain way doesn't mean its right. Many cable/internet companies used to advertise Unlimited internet access then started putting caps on usage. After enough complaints they had to reword the advertising.

And Doug, I can imagine how bad it would be if they refused to issue a model to use their service, but they still choose to include that clause. Thats my point when they keep stating different sections of the agreement to deny every issue I've had. It's not for me to decide whats enforceable and whats not, but including a clause thats obviously unenforceable brings into question the other policies.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Let's review...
They did the install.
You ASSUMED you'd get a certain box even after "research."
You didn't check your equipment before the installer left.
You received a working & proper install.
Now, you want another unit to replace working units even though you never checked the work.

The bad part by Directv is an error in applying correct rebates, I agree!


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Sigma, there have been contracts that were found to be void because the print was too small. Now you could argue the customer should have gotten stronger glasses, or purchased a magnifying glass, or had a friend read it to them, or just not signed an agreement they couldn't read. The contract was still voided. 

If I DID order the boxes through a 3rd party retailer and they sent me the wrong model or a box of bricks, they could argue I should have opened the box, inspected it, plugged it in to make sure it works etc. before signing for it through UPS and deny any returns. 

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I already explained why I expected certain things to happen. They can deny every request they wish if that's how their customer service operates, that's their business. Unfortunately my only option to resolve the numerous disputes now is through arbitration as I've exhausted every other approach. It's a hassle for both sides, and if arbitration hears everything and sides with D* then thats the way the cookie crumbles. If we reach an agreement that's even better.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I just came back from the D* website and went to installation and on HD receivers on the rear it shows a eaternet port,it does say for future use,but since it is activated now i would think that now is the future.

So i feel since they are advertising a product whit that feature it is not unreasonable for a new customer to expect to get it.

I am not a judge or lawyer it's just my feelings.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> I never understood how software EULA's worked shades. They put it inside the wrapped version of game/software. If you don't agree to the terms they say not to install it. At the same token most retailers wont accept opened software. The same can be said about certain rebate requirements. They want not only the reciept, the shipping label from the outter box, but also the UPC sticker off the actual product and want it all within 15 days of purchase. By doing that your not only voiding the 30 day return policy but also the manufacturers warranty as they wont service merchandise that has the UPC sticker removed. The point being just because certain companies act a certain way doesn't mean its right. Many cable/internet companies used to advertise Unlimited internet access then started putting caps on usage. After enough complaints they had to reword the advertising.
> 
> And Doug, I can imagine how bad it would be if they refused to issue a model to use their service, but they still choose to include that clause. Thats my point when they keep stating different sections of the agreement to deny every issue I've had. It's not for me to decide whats enforceable and whats not, but including a clause thats obviously unenforceable brings into question the other policies.


When you figure out how EULA's work for software you'll stop purchasing them. Most companies you don't own the software and they have the right to disable it's use.

I've never said any agreement is a good one for a consumer because it's not made for consumers. It's like how HR has changed from being for employees to protecting the company. I think they are what they are and barring any extreme circumstances I let the companies I do business with do the right thing by me or I find another provider who will.


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## DonkeyJab (Jun 29, 2009)

Yep, that part of EULA's I knew about, your pretty much just purchasing a license. It was how they package that EULA that seems off. If I had an option to return it it would make sense, but retailers rarely ever accept opened software. It's like a catch-22. 

And I agree %100 that most any agreement is for the benefit of the company, they spend big bucks having lawyers write them out and revise them if needed. I'm not even arguing against that, it's just extremely frustrating when they use those policies to dismiss valid complaints. 

In my case with D* it baffles me considering I now have their top tier package with all premiums and had no intention of dropping anything, I was also looking forward to the NFL Sunday Ticket. As it stands now I have no issues with their actual service at all and think their HD channels look better than my cable companies did. It's just getting stonewalled right out of the gate and not even making an attempt make things right. 

In all honesty, if I relayed my entire experience to you and the only thing I was requesting was to swap out the H20 wouldn't that be a valid request? The only thing they would be out is shipping--I'd still be out the $340 in rebates, look past the mistake on my first bill, and settle on the other two boxes. It just doesn't seem like an unreasonable request. They'd actually be making more money because I would need to purchase another wireless receiver from them! The entire thing just seems extremely strange to me.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Since you can't purchase a new HR2x receiver though, that statement is moot in the HR2x manual.


Really? I thought you could purchase any model you wanted, it just had a ridiculous price tag to discourage the activity. I actually have an "owned" HR20-700. I "purchased" it on the D* website during a "hearts" promotion for $99. When I activated it, they added it to my account as owned, but I figure that was just a mistake. Or, maybe not and they were just trying to get rid of these older models.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

DonkeyJab said:


> Yep, that part of EULA's I knew about, your pretty much just purchasing a license. It was how they package that EULA that seems off. If I had an option to return it it would make sense, but retailers rarely ever accept opened software. It's like a catch-22.
> 
> And I agree %100 that most any agreement is for the benefit of the company, they spend big bucks having lawyers write them out and revise them if needed. I'm not even arguing against that, it's just extremely frustrating when they use those policies to dismiss valid complaints.
> 
> ...


Valid or invalid isn't up to us. Understandable yes because you wanted to network. Unfortunately though the only way to guarantee a model number is a dealer or a local retailer after installation. Hindsight and all of course but at this point you're just going to have to hope they come up with another solution for receivers without ethernet ports or go get one on your own. It's unfortunate you posted here after you got setup rather then before. I think most of us would have told you to do a dealer or not get the second HD at the time of the order and get a H21/23 at a retailer once the account was activated as it would have cost the same amount. Maybe in the future you'll need another HD and then at that time can get one with an ethernet port. Stonewalled can be frustrating for sure but if you read a round unfortunately some people have been told they'll get something and then the same thing ends up getting shipped out again which causes even more issues. Glad you like the programming though and hopefully things in the future will make a working scenario.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

rudeney said:


> Really? I thought you could purchase any model you wanted, it just had a ridiculous price tag to discourage the activity. I actually have an "owned" HR20-700. I "purchased" it on the D* website during a "hearts" promotion for $99. When I activated it, they added it to my account as owned, but I figure that was just a mistake. Or, maybe not and they were just trying to get rid of these older models.


No even if you order an owned item it's subject to availability of what's on hand.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> No even if you order an owned item it's subject to availability of what's on hand.


Actually, my comment was in regards to Merg saying you can;t buy an HR2x at all, but you are probably correct. However, _if[/] I were to actually buy a D* receiver and pay the ridiculously inflated retail sales price, I'd expect a NIB item, not a refurb._


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