# No more R-15 for me.



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I didnt want to say anything until the actual install day but today is my last day with DirecTV,  I am switching to Verzion Fios TV and Fios Internet  as its now available in my area. It was sad but I already deactivated all my receivers except for 1 R-15 and requested the leased return kits. I am not going to cancel my service until I am sure about the Fios TV but I am going to suspend it for the longest they will allow.

I heard many good things about Fios TV and been reading some forums about it for a while. Verizon offered me a great deal plus now I can finally make use of my HDTV as I am not about to pay $600 ($300x2) for it thru DirecTV. One of the Verizon DVR's has MRV and shows your photos, plays music, etc.... 

FiosTV also has more SD channels than DirecTV, more Movie channels (wow I never knew there were that many Cinemaxs, HBO, etc... channels), cheaper prices plus you can just use a splitter and get channels 2-50 on any TV with no receiver needed. I can use that on every other TV in my house with no extra $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 receiver cost as I dont watch them much.

I know DirecTV will have the HD advantage eventually but I am really a local show/channel viewer and probably 75-80% of what I watch is already in HD with Verizon and I would now have ALL (26) my locals and not just 5-7 like DirecTV has.

I still may come around to see the R-15, HR20 and HDchannel progress but wont be here a lot.

Good luck guys!

Bobman


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## indirectv (Mar 26, 2007)

Bobman said:


> I didnt want to say anything until the actual install day but today is my last day with DirecTV,  I am switching to Verzion Fios TV and Fios Internet  as its now available in my area. It was sad but I already deactivated all my receivers except for 1 R-15 and requested the leased return kits. I am not going to cancel my service until I am sure about the Fios TV but I am going to suspend it for the longest they will allow.
> 
> I heard many good things about Fios TV and been reading some forums about it for a while. Verizon offered me a great deal plus now I can finally make use of my HDTV as I am not about to pay $600 ($300x2) for it thru DirecTV. One of the Verizon DVR's has MRV and shows your photos, plays music, etc....
> 
> ...


Guess not even Earl's help could convince you to stay. I may follow you very soon out the Directv door. Not sure where, but I am getting tired of the baloney and added fees. Not to mention the crummy hardware.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Best of luck to you too. To be honest, I've been considering the same thing. FiOS is getting mighty tempting. I check their channel line-up from time to time, and the notion of getting all that without a dish is pretty intriguing to me. It's also because I want the HD DVR, but don't feel like spending the $300 to get one. Of course, I just have to get my wife to go along. Let us know how you like the service when you get signed up - I'd be interested in hearing a comparison with DirecTV's offerings. As for the advantage for HD, I think DirecTV will have it for a while, but not for too long. As these channels come on line, they're going to look for providers to carry them. Fiber certainly has the bandwidth.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

The Verizon Fios TV is sweet and I am so pleased and just wish it was available in my area long ago. Even the SD picture quality is WAY better than DirecTV on my TV's. I dont know why but I can switch back and forth looking at the same channel on both and Fios TV is much better.

Also just like cable you can run a splitter and coax yourself to any TV and you can get the locals with no box. I added a spliter and now pay nothing extra and have just the locals on 3 other TV's for free, no box.

The Motorola DVR's are way way better than the R-15. Fast snappy menus, almost instant channel changes, much better digital optical output if your stereo supports that. When I go back to using the R-15, as I have a lot of shows to watch still, the lags seem so much worse after using the Moto. 

The benefits I forgot about by having DirecTV for so long are all the locals I didnt get, over 20. There is so much there when you start getting all of them plus in my area I get 14 locals in HD, with DTV I would get 5.

Real VOD that DirecTV cant match in any form ever. I didnt think I would care for this but it is so neat. You go to a menu and can select entire series of shows, movies, adult stuff, etc... Some is pay but a lot if free. They also have WWE wrestling 24/7 which I play to sign up for as I loved the old old wrestling like I grew up with over todays stuff.

If it comes to your area I would do it. You also MUST switch over your phone service and DSL (if you have that now) as everything is fiber and digital. This is a part I didnt understand at first. Fios Internet is more expensive than DSL but super fast.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Confirmation: Your DIRECTV Service Suspend Request 

This email confirms your request to suspend your DIRECTV service beginning 3/30/2007 through 11/30/2007. After that period, your DIRECTV programming and billing will restart automatically. 

If you need to resume service early, or if you need to extend your service suspension, please let us know by email or by calling us at 1-800-531-5000.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

indirectv said:


> Guess not even Earl's help could convince you to stay. I may follow you very soon out the Directv door. Not sure where, but I am getting tired of the baloney and added fees. Not to mention the crummy hardware.


If you are truely in Chicago...
You have a LONG time to wait for a "fiber" based system... Which most likely be AT&T U-Verse... which is still a very long way from being allowed in the state... let alone, being installed in areas.

DISH and the cable-co's (as it could be COMCAST, RCN, or WOW depending on what part of "chicagoland" you live) are still an option though.

As for "convincing "Bobman"... he doesn't need any convincing..
Of anyone, he has given DirecTV enough time to make the necessary improvements, to reach his satisfaction level.

And he is doing exactly what I tell anyone else... If you have fairly evaluated it.. spent a little bit of time trying to fix the problems... and still are not satisfied.. explorer a different option.

Good Luck Bobman.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Bobman --

Please stop by after a month or so (or PM me) to let me know how you like FIOS and their DVRs after you use them a while. 

FIOS is not yet available in my town (in Somerset County), but I will look to drop DTV as soon as FIOS is available.

Like you, one of my concerns with DTV is the huge investment needed to go to HD (and I am also concerned if DTV needs to run additional cables and drill additional holes in my walls to hook up the HD DVR).

I am also extremely dissatisfied with DTV's customer service in handling problems with my R15. Interestingly, it is the poor customer service, not the R15 problems, which have soured me on DTV.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Bobman,
Cable is a joke here. I got all my D* equipment for $139 (I think you're the one who started the "Free DVR" thread--Thanks!) My wife watches locals but I don't. I do watch Sunday Ticket. And all my equipment works well.

Just about the total opposite of your situation!

I hope you enjoy your TV now--Best of Luck!


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I already pinged Bobman about his switch. As sad as I would be to leave DirecTV, I may be following him in the near future. My main beef is the cost of the equipment too. I understand that there is an expensive outlay on DirecTV's part - you not only need the new receiver/dvr, you also need a new install (dish, wiring, multiswitch). That's alot for DirecTV to swallow to give away for free. But, sorry to say, $300 per DVR just is attrociously high to me. I don't know why they can't break it up a bit - if you need the upgrade to the full package (dish, dvr, new wiring, new multiswitch, et. al.) like I do, then fine, charge the $300. But to get a second DVR to have to pay $300 for that... that I don't get.

In any event, FiOS TV became available around here about 6 months ago, and I've been researching it intently. There are pros (no need for a dish, and since I use FiOS internet, I'm already "wired" for the service, everything local, including more SD and HD local channels and things like Weatherscan local, CSN Philly - still don't know how Verizon got Comcast to agree to that one - VOD, loads of bandwidth, et. al.) and cons to switching, and can cost more or less than DirecTV depending on what you want. In my mind, right now the pros are very much outweighing the cons. Unless DirecTV offers a promo to switch over to the HR20, by this summer I'll be making the move too.

Ironically, DirecTV would be losing me just because of the hardware cost - I love their service, I still think their customer service is the best in the industry, and I like the hardware - yes, I'm still a big fan of the R15, even though I've started hitting some issues that are beginning to concern me a bit -- last night my 500 switched to channel 200 on its own, and then about an hour later automatically rebooted on its own - but since then it's been working fine).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I would have 0 issues with paying $300 for the DVR if it belonged to me and I could sell it when I decide I want something else. Like I have said in the past I have an issue for paying a large sum on money for something I don't own. With a car if you put money down on your new lease it lowers your payments. 

My R15 I flat out own I paid for it when it came out and forgot to send in my rebate so I actually paid full price. 

Just had a flyer on my door the other day they are getting ready to do the fiber install for FiOS in my neighborhood. I know I will be getting the internet right away since I don't like that Brighthouse charges me extra because I don't have their cable.

One thing I can say is Verizons customer service is HORRIBLE, I don't think I personally know anyone who has had more then maybe 1 good outing with them. Their customer service is the main reason I haven't had Land Line service from them in over 4 years. I use Vonage and even if I get FiOS internet I still won't get their phone service.


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

When everybody's 2 year commitment is up. Their is going to be a lot of jumpers.
Including myself.
Ten year customer gone because of their R-15 idea.
Way to go Directv.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I would have 0 issues with paying $300 for the DVR if it belonged to me and I could sell it when I decide I want something else. Like I have said in the past I have an issue for paying a large sum on money for something I don't own. With a car if you put money down on your new lease it lowers your payments.
> 
> My R15 I flat out own I paid for it when it came out and forgot to send in my rebate so I actually paid full price.
> 
> ...


I agree totally with you. It's not just the $300 price. It's the fact that that's the LEASE price, that ties you into a 2-year commitment, and that at the end of the day the equipment isn't your's to keep. I have no issues with leasing equipment - if I were to leave DirecTV, I would have no need for the DVRs and they would just suck up space around my house. But if you're going to make me pay a big up-front fee, then I expect that the device will be mine to keep.

I actually went through the order screens on Verizon's website last night. I heard different stories about their commitment periods, so I wanted to check out what I would be obligated for. I like what they do. You have a choice. Either accept a 1-year commitment (with a $99 early cancellation fee) and get a discount on your monthly bill, or skip the early cancellation fee, and get no monthly discount. I'm not sure DirecTV has anything like that. It's possible that they do if you agree to buy the equipment outright and spend a small fortune on it. With Verizon's model, you still lease, but you can get an extra discount on your monthly bill.

As for their customer service - again, that's one of my main concerns. I've heard horror stories - but then again, reading some stories on this forum, there are issues with every provider. I still think that DirecTV has the best customer service, though. It's telling on Verizon's ordering system - Hit the 'contact us' link and you're given a phone number to call during normal business hours. Why no e-mail address? One thing I will say, having their internet service - if you can find the right number to call, they're pretty helpful. Although when I had an internet outage I didn't like the fact that I didn't get to talk with a person (but to be honest, I don't remember if I had the option to talk with an operator or not). And you can see an improvement by looking at their website. In the past navigating the site for a specific page was just painful (I had to bookmark the FiOS TV page to find it again). It's now much better organized. Hopefully that's a sign of better things at the company.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

my experience with Verizon DSL customer service has been mixed. They have always been knowledgeable and polite. But I once had a minor problem that took a while to fix, with the DSL people saying that it was the responsibility of the telephone people, and the telephone people saying it was the responsibility of the DSL people. I sent an email basically explaining that the reason I have one company for DSL and Telephone is so I don't have to play these games. As far as I am concerned my problem was the responsibility of Verizon. I got an apology from the office of Verizon's president, and the problem was fixed within a week.

Better than I have gotten from DTV, where I sent a letter in September, with 2 follow-ups since, and am still waiting for a response.


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## Kevin Dupuy (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm willing to work through the R15 "event" (I wonder if a couple of years down the road we'll be looking back on the "R15 Years"?) , and hold out for D* to see what they do next. Fiber is a long way off here, and it will be AT&T, so...

But, right now it's between sat and fiber (well, just sat right now) because everybody in my area has, or had Cox Cable. And I was thinking about getting SAT-Go when it comes out so I don;t have to watch their cable. (I knew my R15 sucked when a friend who had cable said my R15 "acts worse than my TiVo [read: Cox-branded Motorola DVR])


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Looks like we may make the switch earlier than anticipated. I did a side by side comparison, and based on what I'm looking for Verizon looks like the much better deal for me. My wife appears to be on board. I'm planning on following Bobman's approach and suspend my DirecTV account until we assess FiOS TV.


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## Mark20 (Dec 25, 2006)

If I had waited 3 or 4 weeks to pull the trigger on D* I might have ended up with FIOS TV as my township approved it about two weeks before my FIOS internet/phone install. (D* was installed almost a month before.) The FIOS installer said they had just turned the video on at my local central office a few days earlier but he wasn't clear if they had done any TV installs though there were Moto boxes were in his truck. I don't know how much of a shakedown they do before releasing it to the public.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I'll be interested in checking out FIOS's offerings when it comes to my area...which looks like it won't be until after my DTV commitment is up, anyway.

I've had good luck with Verizon for DSL and regular phone stuff, but I'm very happy with DTV, so the FIOS package would have to be pretty good to get me to jump.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Kevin Dupuy said:


> I'm willing to work through the R15 "event" (I wonder if a couple of years down the road we'll be looking back on the "R15 Years"?) , and hold out for D* to see what they do next. Fiber is a long way off here, and it will be AT&T, so...
> 
> But, right now it's between sat and fiber (well, just sat right now) because everybody in my area has, or had Cox Cable. And I was thinking about getting SAT-Go when it comes out so I don;t have to watch their cable. (I knew my R15 sucked when a friend who had cable said my R15 "acts worse than my TiVo [read: Cox-branded Motorola DVR])


I think the R15 will end up being a thing of the past... The HR-20 has REALLY improved and it makes me wonder why DTV would maintain 2 DVR's like this. On a SDTV, the HR-20 looks just like the R-15 and now (IMHO) out performs it hands down!


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> I think the R15 will end up being a thing of the past... The HR-20 has REALLY improved and it makes me wonder why DTV would maintain 2 DVR's like this. On a SDTV, the HR-20 looks just like the R-15 and now (IMHO) out performs it hands down!


At some point in the future, all SD DVRs will be obsolete. But I'm pretty sure Earl has said that an SD replacement for the R15 is being worked on now.

The good thing about the SD DVRs is that they are probably still much cheaper to produce, as is evidenced by how easy it is to get them free.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> At some point in the future, all SD DVRs will be obsolete.


Strickly speaking, at some point in the future, all HD DVRs will be obsolete, also. But I know what you mean.

My prediction is that one or two product generations AFTER analog broadcast is truly ended, all DVRs offered will be for HD and SD.

ApK


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I think for the SD DVRs to go away the build cost on the HD DVRs has to come way down. Now if DTV had a cable card type system where you just got tuners separately then you could use the same base equipment and shove whatever tuner you needed into it.

Now I don't mean CableCard as in whats out there now I mean a system something like it but for use in the DTV system, but heck if they wanted to use CableCard spec then it would really open things up.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> I think for the SD DVRs to go away the build cost on the HD DVRs has to come way down. Now if DTV had a cable card type system where you just got tuners separately then you could use the same base equipment and shove whatever tuner you needed into it.
> 
> Now I don't mean CableCard as in whats out there now I mean a system something like it but for use in the DTV system, but heck if they wanted to use CableCard spec then it would really open things up.


It probably isn't the cost of the "tuners" (those that can see 5LNB vs 3LNB), that is the biggest difference in chip costs.

IMHO: The two big costs is the Decoding Chips (for MPEG-4), and the larger hard drives.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I think for the SD DVRs to go away the build cost on the HD DVRs has to come way down. Now if DTV had a cable card type system where you just got tuners separately then you could use the same base equipment and shove whatever tuner you needed into it.
> 
> Now I don't mean CableCard as in whats out there now I mean a system something like it but for use in the DTV system, but heck if they wanted to use CableCard spec then it would really open things up.


It's really a balancing act. Take the current set up - two different machines. The cost per machine is a little higher by going this route - because the number of each unit produced is smaller (the whole mass consumption driving down cost thing). So, it does increase the average price of a machine to some extent by going this way.

However, if you make it all one big platform, then for many users, the device would be overkill. The cost of the HR20 is clearly higher than the cost of producing the R15, so in this scenario you're going to spend a little more on producing a machine that's going for SD use.

The question is - which is better overall? By combining the platforms you cut cost per unit somewhat, on average (costing a little more to produce an SD DVR but costing less to produce the HD DVR due to economies of scale). By keeping them separate, all SD only users would require a box that's less expensive to produce, but the HR20 box would be slightly more expensive than if you were to combine the platforms (you're producing fewer of each box, so the economies of scale aren't as high).

Added to all of this is the production capacity. How many machines can be produced relative to the demand? If you can't meet demand on the HR20, then it really makes no sense to drop the R15 -- all you'll be doing is jacking up the cost of the SD DVR offered. If you CAN, then it's just a question of crunching the numbers. If it turns out that they can drive cost per unit down enough by having one platform then it makes economic sense to have a single platform.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Put a small HD in s cartridge and let people swap the out for bigger ones. 

I would guess between Tuners and possibly the decoders thats the biggest cost difference. Unless you get to very large drives now the price difference is becoming minimal.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I doubt the cost difference is slight enough for higher manufacturing capacity to make up for it. I don't know this for sure but I would guess it. I think as more and more chipsets and such are produced and yield capacities increase and the tech makes it easier to build then yes there comes a point where you have to ask youself is the monetary difference enough to justify two seperate dev teams and all the other things that go with it.



jpl said:


> It's really a balancing act. Take the current set up - two different machines. The cost per machine is a little higher by going this route - because the number of each unit produced is smaller (the whole mass consumption driving down cost thing). So, it does increase the average price of a machine to some extent by going this way.
> 
> However, if you make it all one big platform, then for many users, the device would be overkill. The cost of the HR20 is clearly higher than the cost of producing the R15, so in this scenario you're going to spend a little more on producing a machine that's going for SD use.
> 
> ...


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## miedwards72 (Feb 24, 2007)

Does anyone know if FIOS is in the Houston area?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Easiest way to check to see if it is. Go to the following link and put in your phone number (or address):

http://www22.verizon.com/content/FiOSTV

Apparently it is available in parts of Texas (northern TX). But I don't know what the means relative to where you are (i.e. what does Verizon consider Northern Texas).


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I doubt the cost difference is slight enough for higher manufacturing capacity to make up for it. I don't know this for sure but I would guess it. I think as more and more chipsets and such are produced and yield capacities increase and the tech makes it easier to build then yes there comes a point where you have to ask youself is the monetary difference enough to justify two seperate dev teams and all the other things that go with it.


I guess the fact that we have two separate machines gives us the answer, huh  I would guess that you're correct on this. But then I have to ask - why is there only one type of DVR that Verizon uses? I'm guessing that they see things differently.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Good luck Bobman, I hope it's better than TWC!


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## HardCoder (Dec 15, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> The good thing about the SD DVRs is that they are probably still much cheaper to produce, as is evidenced by how easy it is to get them free.


I wouldn't even use a free R15 as a doorstop. I wouldn't do it if someone paid me to do it and prefilled it with cement. Meh.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Just dropping by and I dont want to get in trouble for talking about Verizon Fios TV here but I am so glad I did what I did. Wish it was available in my area sooner. I just suspended my DirecTV account and if they ever offer a FREE HR20 with FREE installation I still would consider coming back. No way am I about to pay $300-$600 to hook up HD and still dont even own the equipment.

DirecTV can never offer this due to all the different areas but an important part is all the locals that I forgot about after so many years with DirecTV and their 5-7 locals. Just in HD I have double the amount of locals that DTV has, add in SD and its 3-4 times. I know some I might be able to get OTA but no way all of them.

I know everyone wants 100+ HD channels but just think about what you really watch the most? A major majority, well over 80+% of everything I watch, and I am not speaking for anyone else, is locals (24, CSI, NCIS, Survior, Lost, Amazing Race, News, court shows, WWE, etc....). Next might be USA shows like Monk, House and NGC and Discovery channel stuff. All this is already in HD with Verizon and some with DirecTV. Maybe I am the only one to say this but I dont think I need 100++ HD channels as there is not enought time in the day to watch much more than I do.

I cant think of a single major issue but of course like all providers things work differently and ways you have been used to doing things are now different, some for the better some take time getting used to the new way.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> DirecTV can never offer this due to all the different areas but an important part is all the locals that I forgot about after so many years with DirecTV and their 5-7 locals. Just in HD I have double the amount of locals that DTV has, add in SD and its 3-4 times. I know some I might be able to get OTA but no way all of them.


Then you are in an very special "area" there.
Here in Chicago; There are only two additional locals that carry any type of content in HD, that are not available at this time from DirecTV... PBS and WCIU. WPWR used to carry HD content, but when the UPN network went away, so did their HD content.

WCIU only carry's the sporting events in HD.

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But to the rest of your argument... that is *EXACTLY* why DirecTV has been actively adding more and more HD Locals, and worrying about the HD nationals second


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Just stopped in to say Hey.  I am in the Phila/NY area and get both the Phila and NY locals with HD feeds.

Verizon Fios TV also has a *$15 *movie package where you get all 16 Showtime channels, 4 TMC's, 8 Starz channels, 13 Encore channels and 2 Flix, Sundance, IFC and 13 sports channels. Plus HD feeds of SHO, TMC and Starz. Not bad for only $15 extra a month.

There is hardly any adult channels though only Playboy, Playboy Spanish and a Gay channel. I would not mind some adult stuff in HD.

I almost forgot, DirecTV tried to say I never returned the leased receiver even though I had proof it was FedXed 4/2 and they received it 4/4. If anyone else returns any leased equipment SAVE the tracking number.


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