# Can I go out a buy a 508 to avoid the montly fee?



## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

Perhaps my one of questions is answered here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=18773

And my answer is "wait and see".

But not being a current Dish customer, can I buy a 508 and avoid the fee? What does the 510 get me that the 508 does not have? Please remember you are taliking to a newbie. 

Can the 510 be used at all w/o the fees? If so what features do I get w/o fees?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> can I buy a 508 and avoid the fee?


Yes, if you can find one.


> What does the 510 get me that the 508 does not have?


A larger hard drive.


> Can the 510 be used at all w/o the fees?


Yes, only if you get the Everything Package. If you don't have that package or pay the fee associated with the other packages the box will not work.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

Richard King said:


> Yes, if you can find one.
> A larger hard drive.
> Yes, only if you get the Everything Package. If you don't have that package or pay the fee associated with the other packages the box will not work.


Thanks Richard,

I heard that since I am not a current customer I would have to start paying the fee anyway. Is this true?

An the only advantage of the 510 is a larger hard drive? I thought I saw a promotion from Dish to upgrade your 508. WHay would people want ot start paying a fee?


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## navy8ball (Mar 23, 2002)

my local comp usa sells 508 in their store.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I believe that the 508 will be a free dvr whether for a new or an old customer. The charges, as far as I can determine, are strictly based on model numbers. I believe that they have plans to use a portion of the larger hard drive for video on demand services on the 510. This wouldn't be too practical with a smaller drive. By video on demand, what they do is download a few movies to the drive and allow you to select what you want to watch per your schedule, not their PPV schedule. Sort of handy if you are a heavy PPV customer.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

spinnaker DVR 501 and 508 are DVOD Fee free wether you are a new or existing customer. The 501,508 &510 are the same product just different size hard drives they operate on the same software with the same features. DISH Network has realized they can make an extra fee each month and force a higher level of programming by instituting DISH Video on Demand fees which add nothing to the DVR except fees. If you subscribe at the AT-50 level you pay a $9.99/Mo fee if you subscribe to AT-100 you pat a $4.98 fee seeing the difference between AT-50 and At-100 is $9 and you save $5 on DVOD fees for $4 a month you will probably upgrade to the more profitable AT-100 package. Unless you plan on storing a lot of recordings on the Hard Drive the 501s 30 hours of recording time will take care of most peoples temporary storage needs.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

We should warn him, charlie has said publically they are fee free for now. So they might add the fee, to older boxes in the future.

Of course the price will be lots of cancelling subs


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Can someone verify that activating a 501 or 508 now doesn't incur the DVOD fee. From the Dish press releases, it sure sounded like ANY DVR activated after 31 Aug, 2003 was going to be subject to the DVOD fee. So even if you could find a 508 out there somewhere, it would still incur the fee.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Randy B call DISH 1-800-333-3474 and ask if you don't believe our posts. Go right to the horses mouth.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

boba said:


> Randy B call DISH 1-800-333-3474 and ask if you don't believe our posts. Go right to the horses mouth.


So why would anyone buy the 510? Unless of course you wanted some really heavy usage and needed the increased disk space.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2003)

spinnaker said:


> So why would anyone buy the 510? Unless of course you wanted some really heavy usage and needed the increased disk space.


Well at this point you can pay about $300 for a new 508. I opted to get the 510 ( $99 for a 24 month comittment) figuring that for 200 less than the 508 I could use it for 40 months or 3.5 years and still be ahead figuring that I can sell it at some point and upgrade to some new device we haven't even imagined.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

doomer77 said:


> Well at this point you can pay about $300 for a new 508. I opted to get the 510 ( $99 for a 24 month comittment) figuring that for 200 less than the 508 I could use it for 40 months or 3.5 years and still be ahead figuring that I can sell it at some point and upgrade to some new device we haven't even imagined.


Good point. Haven't figured it that way. There is a deal for Dish where you get it for free even extending that time a bit more. It is for a two room deal. I wonder if they require that you pay the extra monthly reciever fee or could you just not use one reciever. I am going to call and I will post back.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2003)

spinnaker said:


> Good point. Haven't figured it that way. There is a deal for Dish where you get it for free even extending that time a bit more. It is for a two room deal. I wonder if they require that you pay the extra monthly reciever fee or could you just not use one reciever. I am going to call and I will post back.


They didn't tell me about that deal. I had a hard time choosing between a 508 and the 510 I hate having to up my monthly bill.
I ended up getting a 35 dollar antenna to cut the bill by $6.00 per month dropping the locals. I'm also betting that the extra pvr fee will get cut before the 40 months is up. I was on the way to compusa to lay down the 299 plus tax but 99 delivered and installed no tax is a better deal.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

doomer77 said:


> They didn't tell me about that deal. I had a hard time choosing between a 508 and the 510 I hate having to up my monthly bill.
> I ended up getting a 35 dollar antenna to cut the bill by $6.00 per month dropping the locals. I'm also betting that the extra pvr fee will get cut before the 40 months is up. I was on the way to compusa to lay down the 299 plus tax but 99 delivered and installed no tax is a better deal.


I thought about getting an antenna too. I could probably pick up most of the locals. But it would be a real pain switching back and forth ad the DVR would not work with the locals where I would do most of my watching.

If you had to buy a DVR then it should be a no brainer considering the 508 does not require a fee.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2003)

spinnaker said:


> I thought about getting an antenna too. I could probably pick up most of the locals. But it would be a real pain switching back and forth ad the DVR would not work with the locals where I would do most of my watching.
> 
> If you had to buy a DVR then it should be a no brainer considering the 508 does not require a fee.


I agree about not being able to use the locals with the dvr that is 
the big problem but they do come in pretty nice. I just plugged an amplified antenna into the back of my current dish receiver to test it out while its kinda a pain at least you can use the same remote. Over time I'll probabaly end up paying the extra but for now I'll keep the cost down.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

doomer77 said:


> I agree about not being able to use the locals with the dvr that is
> the big problem but they do come in pretty nice. I just plugged an amplified antenna into the back of my current dish receiver to test it out while its kinda a pain at least you can use the same remote. Over time I'll probabaly end up paying the extra but for now I'll keep the cost down.


You can keep the same remote?? Cool! Is there any messy switching back and forth? What about UHF channels? Any problems?


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2003)

spinnaker said:


> You can keep the same remote?? Cool! Is there any messy switching back and forth? What about UHF channels? Any problems?


Well what you do is program the dish remote to do your tv as well as the dish, then you shut the dish with the remote and the locals are on the tv just like you are using an antenna. Its not as 
convenient but it does the trick if you have good reception.

I do get the uhf channels.

Buy a powered antenna and try it out while you still have the locals on dish then return the antenna if you dont like the results


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I thought the 501, 508, & 721 were going to be grandfathered as in not to ever be charged a fee? It would be just like Dish to start charging the DVR fees later on even if it was mentioned that no fees would be charged.

They could use some of the extra space on the hard drive on the 510 for video games on demand as well, charging to access to a number of more enhanced video games for a monthly basis.


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## tivosmart (Sep 14, 2003)

I know this is a Dish area and it's not the best place to advocate against it, but...

... I've been with Dish for 5 years and wanted to get a DVR. I called them and the best promotion they offered me was a 510 for $99 plus the 24 months commitment, and then there was the $10/$5/$0 fee depending on my package. He told me they didn't have the 508 anymore (which I'm not entirely sure it was true, since now I know the 508 is fee-free).

ok, I thought, not a bad deal, but let me look at the competition:

Then I found this Directv deal that gave me a 3-LNB (my Dish was a Dish500, 2-LNB only) plus a Tivo receiver with 2 tuners (all Dish 50X are 1 tuner only, meaning I could not watch live TV while recording, a bummer IMO) plus a Director (non-Tivo) receiver, professional installation and free shipping after rebate, all this for around $80... indeed the best price/benefit package for Directv I found, PM me if you're interested in switching and I'll give you the details.

now, granted, the Tivo receiver had only 40GB and the 510 had 120GB... then I started looking at forum posts and it seemed to me that Tivo's where a lot more flexible than Dish DVRs for several reasons, like adding bigger HDs, transferring files to your PC, networking it via Ethernet, etc. And there was the BIG advantage of being able to record with 2 tuners instead of 1. Dish 721 has 2 tuners too, but its price was too much for my plans... (I think it was something like $450 or $500, I forgot). Adding to all this, there was the fact that I've seen ads at CircuitCity of a 160GB HD for $60 after rebate (I bought it afterwards).

So, to add up... if I bought the new Tivo package with an extra receiver for $80 AND added the bigger HD for $60 I could have a very good 2-tuner DVR with the same $5 monthly fee (Directv also forfeits the fee if you have their total choice package) for a net price of around $140, and commitment of only 12 months. This made my receiver to be a 200GB unit (awesome space, I always have dozens of movies to choose from... very good indeed).

Comparing the above to Dish's offer of $99 (plus shipping, which would add a bit more), and a commitment of 24 months for a 1-tuner DVR, it became a no-brainer for me...

In summary, by paying a bit more, something like $40, I got 12 months less on the hook (programming commitment) + a 2-tuner DVR, which now is the best thing I got in this DVR... I couldn't go through primetime TV and record a second show on a different channel if it wasn't for this feature, which I'm very pleased with.

And, adding to all that I found out that Directv has a promotion for current subscribers to add an additional Tivo receiver for only $99 + $14.95 s/h, and I decided to take it too after a while... To my knowledge Dish won't offer you a second DVR for a promotional price... (you would have to pay the full $299 I think for the second DVR).

So, is it only me or was this a better solution given my situation (at the time) of current Dish subscriber that wanted a DVR? I now know that with a 508 there would be no fee, but I think that even adding this to the equation I would still switch to Tivo.

Please comments.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

It's all about choices. One service tries to out do the other to lure you in. You stumbled on to a good deal an made your choice.

What I can't figure is why all DVRs don't have at least 2 tuners. The tuner curcuits can't be all that expensive.

I also can't figure out why Dish does not have the choice to upgrade to the 721 from the free 510. Good thing I guess since it saved me $300 (the combo 721 is something line $600). And whay should an extra tuner cost you $300 anyway?

I went with Dish because I did not like the fact of having 2 boxes on my TV. Am I right? If I get DirectTV and Tivo I would have two boxes?

Where did you get the $49 offer? Direct TV does not seem to offer that. I did find it else where though from and internet provider. And your right this is going off topic.



tivosmart said:


> I know this is a Dish area and it's not the best place to advocate against it, but...
> 
> ... I've been with Dish for 5 years and wanted to get a DVR. I called them and the best promotion they offered me was a 510 for $99 plus the 24 months commitment, and then there was the $10/$5/$0 fee depending on my package. He told me they didn't have the 508 anymore (which I'm not entirely sure it was true, since now I know the 508 is fee-free).
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2003)

tivosmart said:


> I know this is a Dish area and it's not the best place to advocate against it, but...
> 
> ... I've been with Dish for 5 years and wanted to get a DVR. I called them and the best promotion they offered me was a 510 for $99 plus the 24 months commitment, and then there was the $10/$5/$0 fee depending on my package. He told me they didn't have the 508 anymore (which I'm not entirely sure it was true, since now I know the 508 is fee-free).
> 
> ...


Well for what its worth it's 99 delivered and installed no extra tax or delivery and about a 2 day wait. Mine is coming monday.

I'm figuring that there will always be a better deal by switching service to Direct but you can only do it once. Why use it now when in the future there may be better deals by switching.

My other factors are the uhf remote, 4 or 5 favorites categories when surfing, watching a current show while surfing, faster channel surfing.

I would not like to change and be frustrated.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Then I found this Directv deal that gave me a 3-LNB (my Dish was a Dish500, 2-LNB only) plus a Tivo receiver with 2 tuners (all Dish 50X are 1 tuner only, meaning I could not watch live TV while recording, a bummer IMO) plus a Director (non-Tivo) receiver, professional installation and free shipping after rebate, all this for around $80... indeed the best price/benefit package for Directv I found, PM me if you're interested in switching and I'll give you the details.


As strange as it may seem, you really aren't comparing apples to apples. To do so you would have to find what kind of deals are out there for *exisiting* DirecTv customers who want to upgrade to a DVR. I don't know if Direct has any comparable deals on an upgrade route to what Dish quoted you. Anyone know of upgrade deals from D*?


> I went with Dish because I did not like the fact of having 2 boxes on my TV. Am I right? If I get DirectTV and Tivo I would have two boxes?


DirecTivo is a single integrated box.


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## spinnaker (Sep 25, 2003)

I just canceled my Dsih order to look into the DirectTV Tivo deal. I may have canceld but Dish customer service gets high marks from me for not giving me any problems. And they say I can still come back and qualify for any new customer offers that they may have. Now that is the way to run a business, wish Adelphia would learn from them.


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## Lyzardo (Sep 25, 2003)

I know it's been talked about, but I wanted to absolutely confirm that the 508 is fee-free. I've been with Dish since 1997, fell in love with Tivo, and decided to switch to DirecTV for the integrated TIVO experience. 

I added a 508 to my Dish account last spring, and now need to get rid of it. I confirmed with a Dish rep that the fee (for now) is connected to the model number. 508=no fee. This must be why they're going for $225+ on Ebay. So, find a 508, and pay no fee.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tivosmart said:


> Then I found this Directv deal that gave me a 3-LNB (my Dish was a Dish500, 2-LNB only) plus a Tivo receiver with 2 tuners (all Dish 50X are 1 tuner only, meaning I could not watch live TV while recording, a bummer IMO) plus a Director (non-Tivo) receiver, professional installation and free shipping after rebate, all this for around $80... indeed the best price/benefit package for Directv I found, PM me if you're interested in switching and I'll give you the details.


This the neat part about switching providers. If you're not a never before customer, the pricing usually is significantly higher.


> now, granted, the Tivo receiver had only 40GB and the 510 had 120GB... then I started looking at forum posts and it seemed to me that Tivo's where a lot more flexible than Dish DVRs for several reasons, like adding bigger HDs, transferring files to your PC, networking it via Ethernet, etc.


You need to quote prices along with your advantages. It would also be useful to cite specifically whether these features work with the majority of the DirecTiVo units. My understanding is that the Ethernet option for a conventional OTA TiVo unit weighs in at a hefty $150.


> And there was the BIG advantage of being able to record with 2 tuners instead of 1. Dish 721 has 2 tuners too, but its price was too much for my plans... (I think it was something like $450 or $500, I forgot). Adding to all this, there was the fact that I've seen ads at CircuitCity of a 160GB HD for $60 after rebate (I bought it afterwards).


Here's another place that you need to watch out for gotchas. There are unsubstantiated rumors that the standard TiVo units may not be capable of supporting the very large drives. Again, who knows whether what applies to the OTA TiVo also applies to the DirecTiVo?


> So, to add up... if I bought the new Tivo package with an extra receiver for $80 AND added the bigger HD for $60 I could have a very good 2-tuner DVR with the same $5 monthly fee (Directv also forfeits the fee if you have their total choice package) for a net price of around $140, and commitment of only 12 months. This made my receiver to be a 200GB unit (awesome space, I always have dozens of movies to choose from... very good indeed).


This is an excellent deal hardware-wise but I remind you that this is an offer typically made only to never before subscribers. For those who have been volleying back and forth, this offer may not be available. Cable companies seem to be more forgiving.


> Comparing the above to Dish's offer of $99 (plus shipping, which would add a bit more), and a commitment of 24 months for a 1-tuner DVR, it became a no-brainer for me...


[snippage]


> would have to pay the full $299 I think for the second DVR).


Not to mention the additional receiver fee!


> So, is it only me or was this a better solution given my situation (at the time) of current Dish subscriber that wanted a DVR? I now know that with a 508 there would be no fee, but I think that even adding this to the equation I would still switch to Tivo.


Given the conditions of "At this time" and "my situation" (personal values, never before subscriber), you got what appears to be a great deal on hardware. If, as I expect, DirecTiVo gets a true programming fee the "deal" may become less attractive. For those who were too blinded to notice, the DirecTiVo fee is really just the same form of hardware subsidy that Dish has recently discovered. The programming fee for OTA TiVo has jumped significantly since introduction and I wouldn't be surprised to see it reach $13.95/month or higher early next year.

There are numerous issues over and above those of the hardware. Packaging and bundling is the primary reason that I chose Dish but my desires are doubtless different than thousands of other customers.

ps: Regarding the three LNB dish -- if you need it, Dish will generally install it for you for free to support any programming package that requires it.


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## Kenster (Apr 24, 2002)

The current DirecTivo $99 offer is now available to new AND current customers.


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## tivosmart (Sep 14, 2003)

Uau... been out for a few days, and found my post had a big reaction...

Anyway, let me comment in a few other things I learned and some I already knew about the Directv Tivo system:

1) It's a single-box, as somebody mentioned above.

2) It doesn't have an encoder, that's why it can't record OTA signals, functions exactly the same way as Dish DVRs for recording, basically Dish or Directv encodes the MPEG streams in their HQ and broadcast them, then Tivo or DVRs will store the unchanged (well, there is some protocol filtering) streams in the HD. This is why the compression/quality factor in the DirecTivo and Dish DVRs are better than standalone Tivo.

3) No, I wouldn't pay the $13 fee for a standalone Tivo too. It's too much. The integrated DirecTivo has a $5 fee per HOUSEHOLD, so if you have 2 or more you only pay $5 for Tivo service (not counting the mirroring fees). Also, if you sign up with their premium package, there is no $5 fee. So, fee-wise this is EXACTLY the same as Dish is doing for the 510 customers. And rummors are that by next year Directv would not have the fee anymore (but I doubt it... greed will speak louder in the end).

4) Yes, 508s are still fee-free. Don't know if this will be eternal though.

5) Networking: A guy in the DealDatabase.com Tivo hacking area has a guide with a few steps on how to add a USB-Ethernet port to your DirecTivo series2. It's very easy, even I could do it... ;-)

6) The upcomming Tivo software upgrade to version 4 will add support for these USB-Ethernet devices out-of-the-box, so it means you won't have to hack it.

7) There are several other cool applications and easy-to-follow hacks for the DirecTivo series2, these were the better ones I saw:

- The possibility of installing a web server on it, so I can program my Tivo from any computer in my home... I didn't try it yet because of security issues, but I'd like to put a password protected page to it and make it available through outside of my firewall, so I can program my programs from anywhere via Internet... seems cool...

- The possibility to do MPEG extraction from the Tivo and record movies to CD/DVD in your PC (my Stargate episodes mostly). The process is simple and works well, you get your movies via the Ethernet cable to your PC. After you record them to CD for example, there are lots of DVD players that will play them directly... mine is a cheap Daewoo and works fine. I'm not exactly sure, but I don't think this is illegal (for your own consumption, of course), otherwise VCRs would be illegal too.

8) Its rumored that the same version 4 upgrade above would also add the Home Media Option to the DirecTivos, making them stream music, movies and photos via network with other Tivos or with your PC, so there would be no need for a hack to copy the movies to the PC, but this remains to be seen.

9) Drive upgrade... yes, I found out that the current software version 3.1 supports drives up to 137GB. So, my 160GB makes me loose 23GB. I'm hoping that in future upgrades they will support bigger disks, but this might have to wait till they launch a version that comes with a 160GB or higher from factory... Meanwhile I'm also hoping someone will find a way to fool the software so it supports it...

10) About the deals and pricing. Although I like Dish, they have good customer support, etc, my experience so far with Directv has been very good too. Programming-wise there are a couple of channels I now have with Directv that I like that I didn't have with Dish, like the Science Ch and some of the other Discovery ones. This was not in the Dish 100 package but it's in the equivalent on Directv, the Total Choice. So, in terms of programming I'm a little happier, but that depends a lot on your preferences. Price-wise they are about the same for the monthly programming. The only advantage I can see for Dish in this area is if you can get your hands in a 508 (but then again, you'll be stuck with a single tuner instead of a double tuner if you went with Tivo). The $80 or so deal I got was a very good deal I recognize that. But, to be fair, I will have to say that Directv treats their current customers better than Dish, at least in terms of DVR upgrades. Directv has been having for a couple of months already the FFDVR promotion that gives current subscribers a DVR upgrade, including a new multi-switch if you need it, for $99 + $14.95 s/h + you'll have to commit for 12 months. And I just found out another deal at CircuitCity for current subscribers for a DirecTivo for $99 - $50 rebate, but unfortunately the rebate will expire tomorrow. My biggest deception with Dish was that they wouldn't have a good promotion for the 721, because I really need the 2-tuners, this should be standard with all DVRs I guess. And this alone made them loose me as a customer. I would probably stayed with them if they had a reasonable price for the 721 (wouldn't have the motives to go and find out about the Tivos and Directv).

Anyway, I hope this helps more people that are having the same doubts I had some time ago. My only recommendation is to do your homework and consider all variables for your specific case.

Ops... almost forgot: this is what I found for the problem of not having the UHF remote: link. Very clever solution, the transmitter being inside a battery... I'm not so sure I'll need it though, with the new Directv promotion I have a new receiver for almost all my TVs now.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If you are afraid of Dish charging you down the road on the 501/508/721 for DVR fees then email Dish and have them email you back saying that you are grandfathered on these receivers that you will never be charged a DVR fee.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

Check out my Post in the Classified Section:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=19312


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