# What New Features or Improvements would you like on the 721?



## Scott Greczkowski

Dish Network has asked me this question so I am asking you....

What are the TOP 5 New Features/improvements you would like to see made to the 721?

Please let's keep this one on topic so we can compile a list of your requests to foward to the 721 team. Think hard about this one and list your top 5. If your suggesting need some explanation then feel free to explain your idea. 

Again please keep this on topic.

Thanks!

And Happy Holidays!


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## Patrick G.

DECREASE THE CHANNEL TUNE TIME! This is my biggest complaint with the 721. Channel surfing is just plain frustrating.


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## marshalk

1) EPG on 119
2) buffer the "other" tuner to speed up swapping
3) One button swap without using pip
4) Internet via my own ISP on my own network behind a firewall
5) Much much quieter, spin the hard drive down when not in use, use a quieter drive, sound insulate the drive cage.


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## bunkers

How about the ability to record OTA signals? Maybe your forced to view a screen saying you won't copy anything or distribute anything and then clicking ok (to continue) ensures your acceptence/agreement not to infringe upon this agreement.


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## Scott Greczkowski

There is no Hardware MPEG encoder in the 721 which is why you can't record from the A/V jacks to the hard drive. 

Good ideas so far folks, Keep them coming.


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## dbronstein

What I really want is for it to work exactly the same as my ReplayTV did, but since that's not an option here are my top 5:

1. Buffer the background tuner so PIP appears instantly

2. Show-based recording

3. Allow padding recordings by more than 1 minute at the start

4. Save selections as defaults - so if I create a program to be protected and pad 5 minutes after, the next program I set will have protected selected and end padding set to 5 minutes

5. Differentiate between subscribed and channels and unsubbed ones when selecting channels for a custom list

Dennis


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## John Corn

How about the ability for the 721 to recognize extended shows.
Example: Survivor is a 2 hour episode tonight.


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## DDRio

Extended EPG on 119


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## jazzis

1 Show-based recording(Yes... Like tivo)Which windows media center also does just like tivo so it is possible.......

2. buffer the "other" tuner while not in use so u can pause or rewind this other tuner

3. spin the hard drive down when not in use.( this would also keep the fan from coming on all night...

4 more detailed search options.......theme, new showing,by channel, favorites etc...

5 option to connect to your own isp for free $$$$$$$$

6 a warning if you have something delayed and u change the channel(like Dp) or have it so it knows to use the other tuner but allow you to keep the buffer of the other tuner

7 in PVR maybe the use of symbols to let you know if you already watched something, have not finished a program or never watched it

8 it would also be nice if you did start watching a show and want to resume to know how much is remaining in the PVR show list...(one thing i do miss about DP)



I got more but ill leave it at that for now..........


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## John Corn

Better timer identifcation, it's hard to tell what shows my timers are going to record when I go back to take a look at them.


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## jferris33

Name based recording with options similar to TIVO

Separate Screens for Timers and Recorded Programs.

When in menu and hit cancel be returned to where you were in menu.

When returning to a recorded program that you have already watched a portion of have cursor return to "Resume" instead of "Start Over".

Make the silver "dish" button and red button on the remote 
actually do something.

Ability to surf the internet and add a real keyboard & mouse.


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## virtualsmith

1. Ability to either rename manual recordings (ie-recordings that you set the time manually as opposed to recording a show specifically)
1a. If not possible, then the ability to use the name that you type for the manual recording when you set it up. 

Situation example, We tape the two-hour NBC Friends block every Thursday. I set it up to start recording at 6:55pm and end at 9:05pm (Denver time). When I look at the recording in the PVR screen it says "Entertainment Tonight"-130mins, or whatever. I do love that once I click it, it lets me choose which show in the 2 hour block to start watching.

2. The ability to create PVR folders so I can save off my wife's stuff in one, my stuff in another, and maybe to-watch-later recordings in a third. I would LOVE this feature. Right now, we are taping the second season of 24, but we missed the first season and are watching it on DVD, so we won't be watching our taped episodes until we finish the first season. I'd love to not have to see them in my PVR list every day...

Give me those two things and I will be a very happy man.


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## DarrellP

This is a suggestion for all PVR's: In the guide, if there is a timer set for say, 8-9 pm, then show a different color for that time grid. It's very aggravating to try and set a timer only to have a conflict pop up. It would be much easier to see a different color in that time slot so we know there is a timer already set.


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## Jacob S

I would like to have the top 5 list, a top 10 list would be even better, for my site, 1 being the most requested, 10 the least. Having it updated each week would help as well. Scott, can you post what the most requested is from time to time? I will add it ot my site.


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## Scott Greczkowski

I plan on taking the top 7 or so (I might have to choose) and put those 7 up for a vote, this way the 721 team gets a better idea of what people want.

They are all REALLY interesting in what you guys think.


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## Chaos

1. 129 Locals
2. Name based recording
3. Folders for show storage
4. Internet via my own ISP on my own network behind a firewall


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## Guest

1. Longer program guide--printed guides are at least 1 month in advance.
2. Same user steps for watching a PVR event that is currently recording (now "cancel") as one that was previously recorded (now "stop"). It's too easy to get in the habit of pressing stop, but when watching one that is currently recording, this makes you stop the recording of the rest of the event! Three times now this has happened to me, and it's quite annoying.
3. Ability to look before "now" in program guide, by say 8 hours.
4. "Recall" works like "swap" in pip mode, without having to use PIP (although this may increase the heat level, and therefore the fan noise).
5. Better display of conficlts (did L1.07 address this at all?)


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## James_F

Integrated AOL :bang:


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## mgs24

Here is what I would like to see:

1: Named Based Recordings (what good is a pvr if your show runs 2 hours instead of 1 and you miss the second hour or if they switch the day on you)

2: Some way to organize your recorded shows and timers ( have they looked at UTV? you hit my shows and it lists you recorded programs followed by how many episodes:

Survivor 6
Buffy 3
Howard Stern 5

It just makes it more efficient going through your shows. I assume this is what people are looking for when the ask for folders. 

Other than that I am pleased with the 721. 

Thanks, Mike


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## cmaier

Name-based recordings
Name-based recordings
Name-based recordings
...
Remember preferences (like sort order)


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## TruePlayer

I'd like to add a vote for one button swap with second buffer running at all times for the other reciever. 

Also, discrete codes.

Put those two things in it and call it good, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Jacob S

Name based recording is the main thing. 

PIP swap with the push of a button would be nice along with automatic second tuner buffer without PIP in the screen.

Now I see why people want folders so much. Organization is very important to finding the shows that you want to watch.


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## Guest

1) Sticky settings (Recorder program sort, time padding, etc)
2) Buffer Protection (warn on channel change if viewing from buffer)
3) Name based recording (i.e. TiVo season pass)
4) Chained playback - select two or more prerecorded programs to play sequentially for archiving to video tape (so I get all those darn Dr. Phil's off the hard drive!)


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## cmaier

How about a "are you sure you want to stop recording?"
dialog? I hate accidentally stopping the recording (was that
"stop" i was supposed to press? or...)


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## Guest

The extended EPG on 119.

Jim


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## EvanS

1) Program-based recording
2) Tuner swap without PIP
3) "Folders" for PVR recordings
4) Option of "skip once" (over several) occurrances of and event timer
5) ALL screen indicators fade away after 1 minute (unless doing FWD or RWD)
6) Internet via my current broadband ISP
7) Layered exit from menus vs being dumped all the way out


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## Pete38

My most wanted feature?

Discrete power on/off codes. 

I *finally* got them for my 501 five days before my 721 is scheduled to arrive, so now I'll have to go back to cheesy work-arounds until adds this feature...


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## Scott Greczkowski

Thanks Pete and welcome to DBSTalk.COM :hi:


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## krlauver

Name/content based recording.

I have an idea that probably is not feasible but here goes anyway. If DISH can not explicitly write software that performs name based recording might it be possible to provide access to PVR-721 commands via scripts of some sort? If that was possible then it could be left up to "clever individuals" to create scripts that perform all sorts of operations without DISH having to actually write the software. Of course, using scripts to perform operations would be at the risk of the user and from what we know, the software seems to reinstall itself when it detects trouble.

Access to scripts would not have to be via the graphical user interface but perhaps through the Ethernet port or something.

My other request would be to see the information about the programs when an event conflict is detected. If memory serves me, it merely displays the channel but I am probably wrong. I do know something about the conflict display bugs me.


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## Guest

Also:
6. Support for USB Hard drives & DVD writers. While this would probably cause the Hollywood types to go ballistic with copy protection concerns, it would make the product that much more useable. Why not have the extrernal copies be relatively hard to duplicate, just like DVD's? I really don't see the difference between this idea, and making a copy with my VCR, for my personal use.


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## Dad3Kids

The 721 team should look at the Starsight system that was the precursor to all the pvrs.

1. On my old Starsight system, I could arrange the channel order of the guide. So I could not only delete channels from the guide list, but also but them in the order that I want them. SciFi and History channel at the top.

2. Remember how I like to sort my recorded items.

3. For locals show the network associated with the local. I can never remember the number of my ABC, CBS ,.... This would show up in the guide when I am looking at some show on that channel. Once again, a Starsight feature. Possibly add it to the channel number area on the guide.

4. The obvious one, name based recordings. No, Starsight never did have this feature.

5. Setup a timer from anywhere on the internet just like Replay boxes. This means having a USB to Ethernet adapter (less that $40) to use our broadband connections.

6. Search options to include subscribed channels OR all channels. I understand that Dish wants to show you want you are missing by showing PPV and all channels, but I don't like to have to go through all the listings.

I think that is all for now.


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## Danbo

Name based recording
Folders for recorded program storage
Ability to enable/disable the slow motion/frame-by-frame advance feature and use the same buttons as they were previously if disable chosen
Faster swapping between shows
Ability to set default for "use main to record" when watching one show (live), other tuner recording one show, and another record event comes up. Default could be to automatically switch to main so you need not worry about seeing that pop-up or responding


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## rickwyo

I would like to be able to manually rename recodings and create folders to store them in.

I would also like faster channel switching for surfing.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Thanks Rick and Welcome to DBSTalk.COM :hi:


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## Big D

Some way to recognize that both tuners are recording, maybe have the red LED on solid for one tuner and blink when both are recording. New units should have two LEDs.

Allowing us to use our current ISP and home network is a must.

Sticky option settings

Buffering second tuner and buffer protection when switching between the two tuners

Spin down the HD when not being used and increase the cut-in temp for the fan to something not so high it decreases the life expectancy, but runs less. The 721 is just to noisy when not being used.


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## mjz

How about when channel surfing have, when you are flipping up or down in the channels, have one tuner go one channel in front of the one you are at so when you contine you will not have to wait.


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## rmoore3d

Dish 721 PVR Improvement List

1.	Internet access with my own ISP over my network at no charge

2.	Allow the swap button to switch tuners without PIP active. 

3.	Add some buffering of the 2nd turner so a viewer can switch instantly between tuners and even rewind if necessary. This function could shut off if the inactive tuner is not viewed for a certain period of time. 

4.	Add folders to organize PVR recorded events. 

5.	While recording the stop function should have a warning dialog box. If watching delayed while recording it is easy to forget that the stop function will stop the recording. 

6.	More informative display of conflicts. The current display only shows the current tuner not the other tuner.

7.	Settings that remember the last selection sorting and timer padding. 

8.	Change guide to show if an event is actually recording. The icon for a program currently recording should be different. If a recording is inadvertently stopped and the guide is viewed to see if the event is still recording there is no way to tell.


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## Jacob S

I see that the most popular request by far is the name based recording feature, or one similar to it, in which Dish has read our requests and has something close to that in which I hope they can improve upon in the future. 

The second most popular request is the buffer to always remain on the second tuner even if you are not in PIP. 

Also the switch between tuners without having to activate PIP is a very popular request along with folders for the PVR Events. 

Those are the most popular requests in which I have seen.


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## EvanS

1) when selecting "clean up" in the PVR screen, you should be able to protect multiple shows
2) Variable timer on the screen saver


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## Guest

I would like a wireless keyboard option for searching, like the DishPlayer.


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## buist

This is a reoccuring theme:

1. Name based recording.. My opinion is that is what puts the Dish PVR's in a class below the DirecTivo's, Ultimate TV's, etc.
2. Swap tuners by pressing the swap button (seems like a no brainer)
3. Ability to easily record to VCR a recorded PVR event. 
4. Better organization of searching/ browsing - don't show channels I don't get and show the program only once (with Dates and Times on the next screen).
5. Official method of connecting to an Ethernet Network and Schedule Programs (it is worth a try ;-)

Tim


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## Bob Haller

Ahh reliable operation without repeated needed bug fixes...

Its geeting old. I hate loosing recordings..

Why dish designers can D produce a solid reliable code any you cant oir dont?


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## Scott Greczkowski

Bob, the only person reporting problems like this is you. I wish I knew what to tell you here but I am at a loss.

Since getting the new software I have not missed a single recording or show, everything has fired as it should. (I can't say the same for the prior software) (Knock on wood)

There are some things I don't like about the 721, but the 721 team is indeed listing and working to built the 721 software to something that the people want (which is why they let us post the poll)

I am at a loss why you and only you seem to be loosing recordings. 

All's I can say is, thank god the 721 is NOT a Dishplayer.


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## Bob Haller

Now I know how the person with a problem feels when they appear to be the ONLY one affected. Its wierd and not pleasant.

Glad others arent having trouble, and its still way better than the DP/ But yet I have started getting flakey records, stuttering which others report. I have mine on a UPS, for better reliable operation too. I am at a loss, have done a couple card pulls in the last week too. I may try taking my 721 off the SW64 to see if it helps. I will call E later tonight and see if they have any ideas. I am seeing input one get acquiring sat intermittently a couple times.

Frankly my wife just wants to WATCGH TV. I am tired of the bugs...


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## RuhiA

- Option to park hard drive and a quiter fan
- Being able to choose the date and time and program guide (I even gave 'em a hint of how to make it happen - moving the cursor one more to the left from the channel name jumps to the date/time row)
- Program names on timer events
- Eliminating the need to choose the program you want to edit from timer events twice
- PIP to be eliminated if they cannot get it right (annoyance but nothing else)
- Sorting is good but far from being usefull yet (again, when I suggested sorting the Advance Tech support guy told me that was not possible to implement  )

Ruhi


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## bunkers

I think the addition of something which could suppress the recording of episodes which has already been record would be nice.

Maybe this is just enabled/disabled per timer event. 

So what I am talking about would entail (possibly) storing some unique episode identifier or characteristic (if it exists), or some generated tag based on a math formula (hash?) using the first 1 minute (or n seconds) of bitstream info or something.

So when an event has this "suppress shows I have already viewed" property, then it would say keep a small cache of the viewed show tags (ids, hash values?) for that timer event, and maybe lets say its limited to 50 or 100 episodes. Lets assume the criteria for having watched a show is to view it to completion, so at the end of viewing the timed show, when it normally pops you back to the PVR menu to erase, if you erase it then, then it would store it in this cache (if the show was suppress repeat shows enabled).

Then, the next time a timer is fired for that show, if its show id is found in the "already view timer event cache", then the show would not be recorded. If not unique show id already exists, then (a less attractive option) perhaps the show starts recording and then can determine after the first  seconds that the show is a repeat and can stop recording and delete itself.

I know this is probably a very advanced capability which is not likely to be implemented, but it would be very nice and is something which TIVO already has. Maybe its just a simple is having an attibute in the EPG for "first run" shows -- yes or no, and then you could enable the timer to record all shows (default), or "first run only" (manually enabled). 

Doesn't this seem like it would be valuable?


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## Bob Haller

Wewll auto FF thru commercials would be grand. But I doubt E will want to tick off the broadcasters with that one. Technically I wonder if the box could support it.


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## ScottE

1) Name Based Recordings of course
2) Have an option to have PVR Events listed by NAME


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## ScottE

I would also like to round out my previous answer with the full five items I would like to see:

1) Name Based Recordings
2) Program Names on Timer Events
3) Swap tuners without having PIP visible
4) Show Priority on repeat timers in case of conflicts
5) Suppression Duplicate recordings Option


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## bsobel

My 721 wish list:

The normal stuff:
Name based recording
Folders and the count idea shown e.g. Simpsons (5)

My real wish list:
Web server for remote management (setting times from a HTML guide), so when I'm at work or traveling and I forget to record something, I can.

Along with another posts script idea, an HTML based API (like the TurtleBeach Audiotron has) so those of us that want can write apps to control the box

Lastly, ability to transfer recordings from one 721 to another on the same subnet (just want to watch something in the bedroom if I recorded it downstairs, not looking to 'share' with people across the globe)

Bill


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## Bill D

> _Originally posted by Bob Haller _
> *Glad others arent having trouble, and its still way better than the DP/ But yet I have started getting flakey records, stuttering which others report. I have mine on a UPS, for better reliable operation too. I am at a loss, have done a couple card pulls in the last week too. I may try taking my 721 off the SW64 to see if it helps. I will call E later tonight and see if they have any ideas. I am seeing input one get acquiring sat intermittently a couple times.
> *


Bob, sounds like you have a bad sat 1 tuner. Your missed recordings and flakey records are hardware related. I just had my 721 replaced because of a bad tuner 1. I had all the problems you are having. Recordings were missed or only lasted a few seconds because there was problems with the tuner. Call advanced tech support, check it out in point dish, put both tuners on same transponder adn hang on each tuner for a few minutes, tuner 1 will probably bounce all over the place. They may ask you to swap cables and try again to make sure your wiring is o.k., but I think you need a new 721..
I got the new 721 the same day L107 has come out, and my wife hasn't complained once, she used to complain everyday..


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## BobaBird

> _Originally posted by bunkers _
> *I think the addition of something which could suppress the recording of episodes which has already been record would be nice. ...
> 
> So what I am talking about would entail (possibly) storing some unique episode identifier or characteristic (if it exists), or some generated tag based on a math formula (hash?) using the first 1 minute (or n seconds) of bitstream info or something.*


How about the program description ("The One Where Phoebe Says Something Ditzy") as the unique identifier? Broadcasters could get around it though by describing the show a different way when it is rerun ("Monica goes on a cleaning spree"). The first part of the bitstream seems unlikely to be unique because even if the show was started at _precisely_ the same time, the preceding commercial will probably be different. Not to mention it would have to record before it could determine it didn't need to record .


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## Bob Haller

See my trouble post for more info. Havent found it yet.

.


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## Jacob S

The best thing to do is to put a number for each show and then when the show changes in time it can find when that number comes up again, as in going by episode number in which Dish or their computer can keep track of.


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## bunkers

I agree -- perhaps a unique number or ID is assigned when the event is added to the EPG. Maybe one already exists?

I also think that you could do something similar to what TIVO does -- which is to indicate a show as either "first run" or not. Then when you create a timer, you could check a box for "first run only" which should avoid most re-runs.

But the thing I like about have a unique ID instead, it allows your own viewing history to dictate what is a re-run "TO YOU" ... which is better, I think.

I think the name of the show isn't perfect, esp. since some shows don't have much of description to begin with -- but it might work some of the time.

I think the assignment of a unique ID for each show in the EPG could be something that DISH does when it builds and constructs the EPG -- and then this ID is available to be used in a simple caching algorithm per timer event to help prevent recording duplicate shows. 

When a timer is deleted, so to goes its "watched" show history (or cache), I would assume. 

You would only keep a cache for timers with the "suppress shows I have already watched" enabled.

I still like this idea a lot and think it would be VERY useful!


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## DDRio

Develop an algorithm similar to Tivo's Season Pass. In other words, the PVR should record X program only when new episodes are on. The simplest way to implement it would be to make the receiver search for the string "New." in the program info. When "New." is found, the program is recorded. If "New." is not found, then the program is a repeat and it should not be recorded.


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## bunkers

Yes, I agree with DDRio -- but I was also pointing out that what TIVO does is suppress re-runs period. I was thinking the ability to suppress your own personal re-runs would be even nicer. My point it that what TIVO does is one thing and the ability to suppress your own personal re-runs might be another. I see both as valuable features. The ability to suppress your own personal list of re-runs based on what you have actually watch seems like a more powerful ability that what TIVO offers and gives DISH some badly needed bragging points over TIVO.


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## LarryH

1) Add name-based timers (or at least automatically adjust start/end times when a show gets moved/extended)
2) Add Folders (and ability for timers to automatically place shows in a folder)
3) Add "Don't record reruns" check box in timer event screen (don't record show if "2002" not in EPG data)
4) Allow expiration dates on shows (# of days or # of duplicates) - set this info in the timer
5) Make sort options stick (holds last choice until changed again)
6) Release IR keyboard and USB-to-Ethernet adapter
7) Add Internet support
8) Add OpenTV


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## LarryH

Here are a couple more (many have already been mentioned):

9) Have search use current guide (AllSub, Favorites, etc) instead of "AllChan"
10) Allow chained playback - select two or more recordings to play sequentially for archiving to tape 
11) Allow swap button to switch between tuners (w/o PIP active)
12) Buffer 2nd tuner so we can instantly switch between tuners
13) Add button to remove a single entry from the search history
14) Have PVR event default to "resume" if previously viewed
15) Have timer conflict screen show all 3 events (it currently shows 2 of 3)
16) When modifying favorites, mark unsubscribed channels in red (like 501)
17) When modifying favorites, let select work as "auto-advance" (like 501)
18) Make arrow keys functional on virtual keyboard (for insert and edit)
19) View/set timers via the internet (from a web browser)
20) Custom Themes


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## Jacob S

A number ID could be assigned to each show like the VCR Plus numbers.


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## LV2HACK

1.) Turn off HD at night (PLEASE!!!)
1.5.) Fix existing issues before adding new ones
2.) Name Based Recording (Season Pass)
3.) Server. Transmit recorded program to another 721/921/9XX via 802.11.
4.) Backup the HD to external storage so important recordings are not lost when you send the unit in for repairs. 
5.) Setup recordings remotely via the net
6.) Offer a 'beta mode'. Those that are interested can help test software for Dish by enabliing this feature. Imagine the extra 'free' testers.


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## James_F

Why would you turn the Hard Drive off at night? You need it to run the OS that enables the unit. The whole point of PVRs is that they are always running. Its not a VCR.


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## cmaier

The hard drive doesn't need to be on for the computer to be on. As long as there isn't anything recording and there isn't any software or guide stuff being downloaded, there's no reason for the disk to spin. If the unit is just sitting there waiting for events to trigger, everything should fit in RAM and there should be nothing paging too/from disk.

And the drive is LOUD. And turning it off would also help keep the unit cooler, which would permit the fan to go off.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Remember the 721 is ALWAYS recording, thats how the play back buffer works.


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## cmaier

But it probably shouldn't be. If it's turned off, what's the point of recording? I'm going to turn it back on at 3AM and want to rewind? Seems unlikely. 


In fact, I just did an experiment. I turned off my unit from the remote. Then turned it back on a few moments later. It wasn't able to rewind back past the point where I turned it on. So, Scott, assuming you're right, what is it recording when it is off (and for what purpose?)


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## bunkers

Maybe what we really want is the ability to "power off", even if a timer is currently in progress -- and what that would actually do is:

* the receiver would acknowledge your power off button push and then put the unit into the power off mode after its done recording -- maybe it would display a brief message saying "The receiver will shut off after the current timer event(s) are finished."
The message would not require an <ok>, but would just pop up for a couple of seconds and then go away on its own.

So right now, the PVR(s) seems to resume to the mode ("on" or "off") it was in when the currently executing timer was started -- but with the kind of enhancement I am talking about, you could allow the power off button press to the be noted (w/ message as above) and then this sets the default mode to "off", even if the mode was "on" when the currently executing timer was started. Seems like it would be simple to do -- and meets my needs and is less complicated that creating timer based power-on and power-off type events, IMHO.

Yes, the PVR is still really "on" in a sense -- it can wake up for timers and to download the EPG, etc -- but its also in the sleep mode where the green and red lights are off -- except when needed for a PVR timer event.


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## TomCat

I have but 3.

Fix the stuttering on Sat Input 2

Fix all of the things that were broken with the advent of 107, and refrain from introducing buggy features in the future until they no longer are problematic.

Stability.


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *The best thing to do is to put a number for each show and then when the show changes in time it can find when that number comes up again, as in going by episode number in which Dish or their computer can keep track of. *


Instead of going to all the trouble of trying to associate ID numbers with every show in the guide, aren't all new episodes (not reruns) have the tag "(new)" at the end of the description? I know that the local paper's guide has a "(r)" next to any show title that is a rerun. If that can be accurately added to each show then the "Record only New Shows" switch should be easy...a simple GREP on the show's description for the specific text and a checkbox in the timer window.


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by DDRio _
> *Develop an algorithm similar to Tivo's Season Pass. In other words, the PVR should record X program only when new episodes are on. The simplest way to implement it would be to make the receiver search for the string "New." in the program info. When "New." is found, the program is recorded. If "New." is not found, then the program is a repeat and it should not be recorded. *


...if I had read one or two more posts I would have witnessed stolen thunder!:lol:


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *A number ID could be assigned to each show like the VCR Plus numbers. *


The VCRPlus codes would be a step backwards. VCRPlus codes include date, time, channel, and duration of an event. The one thing they don't include that would be needed is the name of the event. 

:rant: On a side note, Gemstar are bastards. I say this because of their little "Program Grid" move.


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Remember the 721 is ALWAYS recording, thats how the play back buffer works. *


The buffer doesn't record during stand-by...does it?


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by bunkers _
> *Maybe what we really want is the ability to "power off", even if a timer is currently in progress -- and what that would actually do is:
> 
> * the receiver would acknowledge your power off button push and then put the unit into the power off mode after its done recording -- maybe it would display a brief message saying "The receiver will shut off after the current timer event(s) are finished."
> The message would not require an <ok>, but would just pop up for a couple of seconds and then go away on its own. *


I have powered off my 721 while active timer recordings are running and they always keep recording until they are set to stop. I guess I've never had this problem before.


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## MediaMills

Six in a row...
I must be the only fool awake on this thread!


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## LV2HACK

My old DishPlayer powered off / put the drive to sleep when the receiver was "powered off".

Also, I have a linux machine that has essentially the same OS and supporting software as the 721 (minus the PVR stuff), and I can spin the hard drive down by issuing hdparm -S251 /dev/hda This enables a 20 minute timeout on the drive. All modern hard drives have a spin-down feature. No special OS support required. The drive in the 721 may be kept on by constant drive read/write. But this should really not be necessary. Maybe a RAM disk can be used as a cache if it is absolutely required by some 721 specific design requirement.


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## tm22721

New feature : Fix the bugs

Improvements : Emulate DirecTIVO ease of use


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## bunkers

re: the current 721 "new features" poll

I am happy to see enhancements #2 and #5 in the lead -- as these really need to be implemented together, IMHO.

These 2 enhancement would be at or near the top of my list.

In addition, here is my current wish list:
-- "power off" enhancement (simple)
-- some kind of repeat show suppression;
esp. great if it could suppress more than just "first runs"
and suppress based on your own personal viewing history.
aka - the TIVO equalizer enhancement
-- 3-5 customized (named) PVR folders and ability to assign
a timer event to a PVR folder, if desired. Maybe there is a 
public folder which is the default. Maybe all folders can
be toggles, or folder X, Y or Z -- similar to how favorites lists
currently work.
-- "un-favorities list" which can "ban" certain channels from 
appearing in the EPG. Nice for parental control and for simply
not having to look at channels you don't ever watch.
-- Limit searches to favorites and possibility combined with
the un-favorites "ban" list.
-- Enhanced information on timers screen, mainly the name.
Ability to rename would also be nice.

Also a formal partnership with dbstalk would be a great way to determine what the people want the most and provide some level of input/voting. I think the current enhancement seem based too much on what the execs (w/ their beta units) want and the nerds in the PVR programming groups want to do -- or the occasional email request. 

It seems like a more organized and formal method of gathering information would help produce a better product and would be more fair. Opening up a program to have subscribers become beta testers (voluntary, of course) would be a great idea as well. There are some very gifted people who love living on the bleeding edge -- and they would jump at the opportunity to beta test some of this stuff. I feel like were doing that anyways, but lets make it formal and not beta test on the current subscriber base as we currently seem to (sometimes).


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## Kagato

1) Name bases recordings
2) USB support for extra hard drives and perhaps DVD-R drive
3) When playing back while in buffer, change channel with 2nd turner (if free) so that recall button will jump you back to buffered play.
4) Themes (Sounds, GFX etc.) if you're going to do Inet access might as well. This is a growth market for Cell Phones. Dish might as well capitalize.
5) Season pass like functionality.


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## Kagato

6) Sharing with other devices. Like if the 721 users also buy additional 721s or a 921. Although I'm a little leary is this can actually be done based on the block diagrams for the broadlogic chips (Assuming the encryption is enabled).

Hell, I'd love to see a 3-4 tuner video server product. The STBs would be nothing more than a CPU and an MPEG decoder.


----------



## bunkers

I would agree with the name based recording and season pass stuff are good things to want/ask for -- BUT ... I don't think its realistic to expect these things without a complete redesign of the DISH PVR(s). So I would say to ask yourself if your requests are realistic or not. To me, I can't see DISH doing anything that requires a redesign, without first going to a new piece of hardware first. I would love to be proven wrong on that -- but I won't hold my breath.


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## Jacob S

Extend buffer past 2 hours.


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## cmaier

Being able to set the size of the buffer would be nice.

Also, I find it difficult to believe a redesign is required to support name-based recording. It's probably not even very many lines of code (it's probably more code to add the user interface than to handle the events). It's much more likely that it's a patent issue (the sonicblue patents, in particular, seem to be the scariest).


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## Bob Haller

Ask this BEFORE the receiver is out! Rather than risking the creation of new bugs and operator errors once the unit is out in the field.

Ahh were thinking of a new 522 what features would you all like?

Stability is my number one need!


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## ScottE

> _Originally posted by ScottE _
> *I would also like to round out my previous answer with the full five items I would like to see:
> 
> 1) Name Based Recordings
> 2) Program Names on Timer Events
> 3) Swap tuners without having PIP visible
> 4) Show Priority on repeat timers in case of conflicts
> 5) Suppression Duplicate recordings Option *


Oh Yea - I almost forgot - Before the latest patch the jump ahead 30 seconds and jump back 10 seconds would work great. Now there is a weird sound issue where the sound gets delayed when I do those operations. That would be good to fix.


----------



## ScottE

> _Originally posted by bunkers _
> *I would agree with the name based recording and season pass stuff are good things to want/ask for -- BUT ... I don't think its realistic to expect these things without a complete redesign of the DISH PVR(s). So I would say to ask yourself if your requests are realistic or not. To me, I can't see DISH doing anything that requires a redesign, without first going to a new piece of hardware first. I would love to be proven wrong on that -- but I won't hold my breath. *


I disagree - I think these things are not only realistic to ask for but obtainable. If dish provides us these features then they will have a first class product that would open up many doors, making them much more competitive with Tivo based solutions not to mention keeping us as loyal customers. For them to not do this would frankly be a poor business decision. I am a Software Engineer and have first hand experience with redesigning a deployed solution. Frankly the scope a redesign is not out of the question and would only take three things to make it succesful - Test, Test, Test. At least thats my humble opinion.

Scott Eguires


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## Bob Haller

If a new receiver has to be replaced under warranty and is less than 30 days old, and is high end like the 721 it should be replaced with a BRAND NEW ONE!

This and a easy way to transfer saved shows when troubles occur.


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## bunkers

ScottE - from the folks I have talked to which have worked at Dish in the past have indicated that its a pretty "fly by the seat of your pants" shop with lots of problems. Maybe its gotten better recently, but in places where you code as you go, you often don't have a design and those are hard to redesign.

"Test Test Test" may be right, but DISH has historically tested very little and gotten a bad reputation for it. THe main testers, IMHO, are you and me (sad to say).

I think DISH (~10.56 Bil Mkt Cap, 2Bil cash?) should seriously consider buying out SBLU (~49 Mil Mkt Cap) -- much cheaper than the merger breakup fee and they have valuable patents and a really nice PVR (replayTV) which could be improved if it could record the DISH bitstream directly.

I also wonder why DISH doesn't just drop its conventional ideas of trying to provide internet access itself and instead partner with the local bell-cos for DSL access instead? I wrote the president of Qwest recently and told him he should strike a deal with DISH to cross market and cross sell -- and imagine if you could get your Dish installed when they were hooking up your phone line ... how many installations would happen just then because of the convienience factor.


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## bunkers

ScottE -- I think moving to name based timers is a great idea, but I am sticking to my assertion that they won't add name based timers on existing receivers because its a time and channel based thing from the ground up and because there may be significant legal issues to contend with as well.

If you really believe that DISH could do this so easily, then why did it take so long to get the search capability added and/or why haven't they fixed the timer screen in the last 2 years?

I don't think Replay has name based timers either, but I woudn't be surprised if TIVO had some patents already ...


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## ScottE

Bunkers - It can be done easily assuming you have competent programmers working for you. It is my assumption it took as long as it did because the programmers they have hired and/or outsourced are not top caliber (no offense to those programmers reading this). I rarely have bugs in my code but I guess that is why I get paid $130K a year. It is all about hiring quality people.


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## ScottE

Bunkers - By the way its not really the programmers I blame - its the Project Managers. In the end the final product whether it be good or bad is their responsibility.


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## FlyingDiver

You can have it good, you can have it fast, or you can have it cheap. Pick one of the above. Heck - pick two of the above (usually). Never all three.

joe


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## Bob Haller

Yeah look what FBC did to the NASA Mars probes


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## bunkers

ScottE -- your paid well because you are excellent.

FlyingDiver -- I would say you only get to pick one, sorry.

I'm not saying its bad programmers -- but yes, it could be bad management and/or both.

My point remains that name based timers just aren't going to happen anytime soon. I have lowed my expectations to things that DISH migh actually be able to deliver.

I really am happy with my PVR, despite the fact that it could be improved. I wouldn't personally switch to TIVO, because I like so many other things about DISH better than D*.


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## Jacob S

Is it possible for someone on here to write the code for that feature or for other features for the 721 or is that just not possible?


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## cmaier

It probably is possible (at least some of the source code has been released, though I don't think that includes the PVR functionality so all of that would have to be rewritten) except that it would be impossible to actually have it work since the 721 detects if you modify its code and eliminates the foreign code (or stops working entirely).


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## bunkers

IMHO, writing code for these new features is not something that folks outside of DISH would be allowed to work on. 

There are technical issues but also potential legal issues.

I think it has been suggested here before ... that DISH could create a simple scripting language which could then be made public along with some documentation on how the language works and the built in functions available. Then we could potentially develop our own scripts and download scripts that other people have written to do certain functions that the reciever by default does not do. There is also the issue of how to get the code into the reciever in the first place, or to send a script to a public server, since currently all information is just received from the sat signal, and the telephone lines are not used.

DISH PVR(s) do not require that the phone line be plugged in (outside of PPV) -- so you really only have the capability to download information pushed from the DISH sats. If they created a PVR which required the use of the phone line (like TIVO abd D* does), then you can centralize certain functions and leave some functions decentralized ... allowing for more capabilities.

I really think if they bought SBLU out -- the ReplayTv 5xxx addresses many of these concerns -- i.e. it has eithernet capabilities (and soon 802.11b wireless internet also), allows recordings to be shared and is networkable with other PVRs, has commercial skip abilities, has some abilities to be expanded via scripts, has ability to share pictures and mp3 files, has a decent interface and conflict management capability. Has reliability better than DISH (from what I have heard). It really needs a basic DISH satellite tuner incorporated into its design so the compressed bitstream could be recorded (increasing capacity and quality).

Heck, even if DISH doesn't want to buy them out -- maybe it makes sense to enter in to a joint venture with SBLU (sonicblue) and create a new line of ReplayTV enabled PVR(s), similar to what D* did with TIVO. These PVR(s) might be supported by the existing fee structure associated with Replay (or a reduced fee structure, similar to direcTIVO, say $5/month).


----------



## Kagato

> _Originally posted by bunkers _
> *
> I also wonder why DISH doesn't just drop its conventional ideas of trying to provide internet access itself and instead partner with the local bell-cos for DSL access instead?  I wrote the president of Qwest recently and told him he should strike a deal with DISH to cross market and cross sell -- and imagine if you could get your Dish installed when they were hooking up your phone line ... how many installations would happen just then because of the convienience factor. *


Phone companies are regulated. The phone installer would face legal obsticles to installing an unregulated TV service at the same time they are installing phone service. Also, Qwest has been test marketing VOD and TV over DSL for years. Not to mention the installers are union...

Now, if you're just talking about having a dish branded service, Qwest and most other phone companies already have plans for private label broad band services. In fact national services like AOL and MSN, often use the exact same companies in their service areas (Qwest, UUNet, Verizon, etc.)


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## Kagato

I can see Tivo and Replay charging fees. They need money to offset the guid data and marketing. 

I don't think Dish pays any extra for guide data, and marketing fees are close to zero (compared to over $500 Tivo pays).

Dish needs to keep working on the 721 to stay in the game. You've got a bunch of time based PVRs hitting the retail channel (outside Replay and Tivo). Panasonic with their time shifting DVD recorder. Cable nipping on the heels with VOD. PVRs keep customers, and attract new ones.


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## Jacob S

I think the ultimate unit is one with a hard drive for PVR functionality combined with a DVD recorder in which you can dump the recordings to DVD when the hard drive fills up. How much can a DVD store for analog programming.


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## knealy

I'd like to see them return to clearing the purchase record once it's been sent in.

BTW, does anyone know if DishNetwork logs what we watch when it's not pay per view?


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## BobaBird

> *maybe it makes sense to enter in to a joint venture with SBLU (sonicblue) and create a new line of ReplayTV enabled PVR(s), similar to what D* did with TIVO. These PVR(s) ... *


...would actually be worthy of the term PVR. Doesn't E* already own a chunk of SBLU stock? I vaguely remember something that could have led to what you suggest but lost track of it and haven't heard anything in awhile.


> *time based PVRs*


Kagato, I think you've coined a new oxymoron!


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## bunkers

TIVO seems to think that you can sell standalone (OTA - over the air) versions AND the integrated versions (direcTIVO), so why not DISH and SBLU doing the same thing? Maybe the dishReplay would cost $4.99/month instead of the normal $9.99 -- similar to how TIVO has a reduced price scheme for D* users. Maybe instead of a 528, you try both a single and/or dual tuner versions of the dishReplay 5xxx ? I like the thought of it.

I don't see how this wouldn't benefit both companies quite a bit. SBLU would sell more product and sign up more subscribers and E* sells more subs and take a serious step forward in competing with TIVO and UTV. Down the road, if things work out, E* buys SBLU out, or SBLU sells the division to them.

This step would help E* address some currently inabilities to network, share and some other advanced features. I don't see the additional of another option a negative to the existing DISH PVR market either. Plus the equipment failures would be SBLU' problem and not DISH' problem.

Its more of a marketing deal to sell more subs (for E*) and more product (for sblu). The nearly fanatical followers of the replayTV units are similar to the die-hard apple computer followers and are a very loyal bunch, IMHO.


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## bscoles

1. Name Based Recording
2. Folders
3. Swap Tuners by pressing swap button
4. Have Search & themes use favorites list
5. Record indicator should be shown anytime a program is set to record.


Extension to #4- add checkboxes for title, description, and favorites list (which could be a pull down box) to limit it to the options checked - checkbox in title only would limit search to title names, etc. Have had times where I entered the exact title of a show and yet got several hundred hits because it was part of another word. 

Extension to #5- Currently when a search is performed, shows that have already been marked don't have any indication that they have been marked, so you have to select it to see if you've marked it to record. In any relevent screen if a show has been marked to record it should indicate so. Also, use a single red dot to indicate a one shot show, and a multiple dot or dot of another color to indicate a multple shot timer.

Brent


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## UpOnTheMountain

1. Name Based recording
2. Auto Skip back frame on pause to fix sound sync
3. Record indicator in search list
4. Channel name in themes list
5. folders in pvr list
6. swap tuners without pip


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## Bill D

What is the huge benefit of name based recordings??
If we are talking about it just finding all shows called 'Friends' on any channel?? That would be a lot of of the same friends on syndicated channels.
Or are you more wishing it would track the show when the show is a season ender or some other ratings spike that extends the show 10 minutes.
I don't get the re-run thing, so what if it records a re-run, just erase it. Turns out there was a few CSI's these past few weeks that were from 2001 and I didn't see. There was a few I did see, so I hit erase, big deal..
I think there are a lot more important things for them to work on then name based recordings, if I'm missing something please let me know, so I can see the light..
some stuff Dish should work on..

Stability, although 107 has been pretty solid except for a few re-boots..
The triple timer conflict message..
Weather/Open Tv, mainly want open TV for sports scores and stats, a lot easier then waiting for a ticker to scroll around. The info is so small, it could download, weather, sports and news to the hardrive every XX minutes so you don't have to wait for it to download. I know I can check this on my computer, but I don't sit around with mine on all day. When I'm in front of the TV, I would like to use the equipment associated with my TV..
Folders..
Being able to buffer both tuners without leaving the PIP up


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## dbronstein

> _Originally posted by Bill D _
> *What is the huge benefit of name based recordings??*


That's the whole frigging point of a PVR - to find and record the shows you want, not to just mindlessly record timeslots.

The last two weeks are a great example with all the Christmas specials and such. You have weekly programs set and you end up having a bunch of crap that you don't want recorded. With name-based recording you don't get any of that, if it's not the right show, it doesn't record. I don't care about getting reruns, I just don't want it to record whatever's on NBC from 7 to 7:30 on Thursdays if it's not Friends.

ReplayTV has great funcitonality for this. You can have it record every episode it finds of a show, regardless of time or channel so you get all the Friends in syndication, for example. Or you can have it only record the show in a specific timeslot, so you get just the Thursday 7-7:30 ones. Or you can pick specific days for a timeslot, so you could have it catch any special airings on other nights, but still not get the syndicated ones.

I'd settle for it just looking at the show title and not recording if it's the wrong show. I was out of town the week of Christmas and I was amazed at all the crap it recorded because of the schedule changes.

Dennis


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## bunkers

Yes, I think you may be missing the point behind why name based and re-run suppression would be valuable.

First the name based recording -- using the name as the cross reference to when to record a show is more accurate (also assuming an accurate and frequently updated guide) than a straight timeslot based PVR, like what DISH uses. Allthough the timeslot variety may be easier for folks used to using a VCR to understand. Its not an absolute must-have feature, but would have made for a better design., IMHO.

The suppression of re-runs is also not critical, but would be nice -- especially if you went away and came back to find that you lost recordings you DID want, because you ran out of space recording crap (reruns) you DIDN'T want. So no, its not hard to delete the shows, but you need to go through the exercise of watching it ... realizing its something you have seen, then deleting it. Its not tough to do, but it would be nice to have an option which allows those repeat shows (or shows YOU have watched) to be suppressed in the first place. Thats why I think a timer-wise level of repeat suppression would be neat.

Again, I reiterate -- why not just enter into an agreement with SBLU to develop a modified ReplayTV with Sat Tuner -- i.e. the DishReplay receiver?!

I think having some folders would also be really nice.


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## Jacob S

Why not use some of that extra surplus that they have to buy the rights to use that technology?


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## Bill D

Thanks for the info, you do make some good points. I guess the name based stuff isn't a real necessity but more of a nice thing to have to make things easier and to have less of a chance of missing shows. 
So is it really a copyrighted things, or does Dish not have it for other reasons..??


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## Bob Haller

Last night my old technology DP had the brains to NOT record where providence had been. I hadnt removed it from the PVR list.

While my nice new 721 happily recorded 1/2 of a dateline episode in that time block I guess it doesnt matter but stuff like this should of been designed in before the box ever hit the streets.

I record cant miss shows on all boxes becaause of the buggs....


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## bunkers

There was a parade on HGTV the other day and then all shows for the day were missed (or 30 minutes off) because the timer just recorded its time slot, which was wrong for the rest of the day (everything after the parade).

So, one problem is the guide is wrong (not updated enough). Another problem is the timer isn't connect to the guide (or a name in the guide), but to the time slot. So I don't see how to fix that, without a pretty major redesign effort. Its really a flaw in the data going into the guide (or the advanced -- looking into the future data) going into the guide. Its wrong, and then we make timers based on the incorrect time slots and then when it changes, we miss those shows.

Do you really believe that the folks broadcasting the parade didn't know when it would be on until the last minute?! I seriously doubt it. I wonder if the TIVO guide was accurate as well. 

I would be interested to know if anyone has ever compared the TIVO and DISH EPG(s) for the same channels. Are they different, and if so, when and why?

I am pretty certain that TIVO download a new EPG each night.
Tivo also requires the use of your phoneline, so they could really know what shows you were already recording, if they needed to.

Maybe the move by DISH to compressed EPG info is a move to push the more accurate EPG info more often, to help "get it right". 

>>> So if we are only getting a new EPG say once a week, then this is a big part of the DISH EPG accuracy problems, IMHO. <<<

They really need to do a refresh of the EPG every night. A nice feature would be to map the name associated with your current timer time slots and then if the new name (after an EPG refresh) was different, that it could maybe flag these timers -- and maybe add a manual intervention screen to allow you to verify if they are still correct, and if not, correct it yourself. Yes, it still stinks, but its easier than a complete redesign at this point.


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## dbronstein

What do you mean we only get the EPG updated once a week? That would mean that it would get down to the point where there are only 2 or 3 days on it. But every time I look at it, it always goes out 9 nine days.

Dennis


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## Jacob S

It used to update every evening, now they are only updating it once a week? What is up with that? That does not sound correct to me.


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## bunkers

No, I am not saying that its a once a week download -- I am guessing that maybe it is. I thought I read/heard somewhere that the guide downloads ~1x per week and it contains a 7-9 day window of data. I hope I am wrong about that. I hope it IS nightly. 

I still think that the EPG is often wrong (and wrong well in advance) and that often leads to problems with your PVR timers, because you selected things which are not correctly identified.


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## dbronstein

If it is only a once a week download, at some point you'd only see 3 or 4 days in the guide. I don't look a week out very often, but I have never not seen it go all the way out like it should.

Dennis


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## Guest

I would like it if you recorded 2 sequential programs on the same channel, that the unit didn't have to use both tuners to manage the overlap time. IMHO the best way to do this would be to have the disk records during the overlap time belong to BOTH streams--kind of like a shortcut in Windows, but for only a part of a file. While in concept this is pretty simple, it is probably very difficult to do in most file systems--but it would simplify recording two sequential programs on the same channel, which I seem to do a lot.


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## zimm0who0net

I've got about 50 things I'd like improved or changed on the 721, but fulfilling the one at the top of my list severely reduces my desire for the others. 

I think it's high time EchoStar releases enough information about the 721 and change the licensing agreements so that 3rd parties can write applications. 
Throwing the whole thing under L-GPL would be great, but probably too much to hope for. At a minimum they should release some key information about the operating system, the device drivers, and a development environment. This in addition to changing the licensing agreement such that people could LEGALLY develop on, and sell software for the 721 would immediately motivate an army of small entrepreneurs to develop add-on (or full replacement) applications for the 721. 
What does E* have to lose? They get paid either way.


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## buist

There is another angle to the name based recordings.. Instead of not recording shows that are pre-empted (by parades), recording shows that are not on a regular schedule. A couple of examples- sports (Basketball, Hockey, etc). On my DirecTivo, I would have it record the Pistons whenever there was a game.. I would not have to constantly look for times and days to set the timers. Another example is when you want to have it record a favorite movie (even though it may not be on soon). Instead of constantly searching for it, you can have it automatically record (Set it to record Star Trek Generations for example). This is a real time saver.

Also, when the Screen Savers on TechTv changed their time (and went to 1 1/2 hours instead of 1 hour), I did nothing.. The Tivo kept on recording the shows without any interruption. 

This is something that DishPVR's competitors do (DirecTivo, UltimateTV, etc). 

I hear about copyright infringement, but all of the other companies have dealt with this issue. I think Dish would be able to overcome this.. Just MHO.

Tim


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## bunkers

This really points out a huge difference between DISH and TIVO (and others?) -- DISH is really using "static" (non changing) timers, whereas TIVO is using "dynamic" (changeable) timers.

The Name is used to dynamically determine the time and duration in a dynamic timer design.

The time and duration are stored once [at the point in time you pick the show to record] using a static timer design, like DISH PVRs seem to use.

I wonder if DISH could add a new "type" of timer -- leaving what they have alone, essentially. This new type of timer would be more dynamic and could handle time and duration changes. Perhaps after this new dynamic timer is perfected, the old style timers could be phased out?


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## Jacob S

One simple solution, use the codes they use for the vcr for the pvr, it is a string of numbers, like you see on the info screen on a ppv movie, that you enter into vcr+ and it automatically records the show for you when it comes on. This could be done with the pvr recording functionality as well. Would this be in violation of a copyright since they already have this on the info screen on the ppv's? Could they just add numbers to all the shows and record by numbers?


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## BobMurdoch

1. Internet Access - Including allowing bring your own access (I have a Cable/DSL router with a free port ready to go IF they turn this on)

2. Interactive Weather - The wife misses this from the DP for some reason.....

3. Better searching capabilities.... when I search for movies I don't want 50% of my available results tied up by PPV's and channels I don't subscribe to. Or at least remove the ceiling so I can search for more than a day for upcoming shows.

4. An option to push the PIP window to the far corner of the screen (it currently stands off by about an inch on my bigscreen TV) (and who decided that dead center was a good spot for one of your 7 choices).

5. A 16 x 9 option widescreen option so that the receiver knows that I am watching it on Full Screen and adjusts the overlay screens to best use all available screen space.


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## bunkers

I have a felling that #3 won't ever get done, because DISH makes a lot of money from PPV channels, so they don't want us to be able to filter them out of our EPG or search results.

I would be very impressed if they would allow us to filter channels out, because my kids will someday be scanning the guide, only to find "Debbie Does Dallas" and other much worse named shows. 

As discussed previously, the additional of EPG channel suppression and search results channel suppression is also a basic form of parental controls as well.


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## TEXMIKE

1) BUFFER FOR SECOND TUNER SO IF YOU'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH YOU CAN BACK UP IF YOU MISSED SOMETHING ON THE SECOND TUNER WITHOUT HAVING TO LEAVE THE PIP WINDOW ON.
2) DOLBY DIGITAL ONLY OUTPUT TO WORK. RIGHT NOW, THE FIBER OPTIC CABLE HAS A LIGHT ON WHENEVER IT IS PLUGGED IN, NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTPUT SETTING.
3) TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK A FEW HOURS ON THE PROGRAM GUIDE BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME.
4) TO BE ABLE TO USE AN EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE FOR MORE SPACE.
5) ...AND TO DISH NETWORK......BACK OFF ON THE COMPRESSION. SOME CHANNELS REALLY LOOK BAD ON MY PANASONIC DIGITAL TV. THE LOCALS ARE THE WORST. IF YOU HAVE TO GET RID OF SOME CHANNELS TO GAIN EXTRA BANDWIDTH TO ACHIEVE THIS, DO IT! I'D RATHER HAVE FEWER CHANNELS THAT LOOK BETTER WITH LESS COMPRESSION.


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## bunkers

1) RAISE OR ELIMINATE THE LIMIT ON TIMERS - 64 IS PATHETIC!
2) INCLUDE PROGRAM NAMES IN TIMERS SCREEN AND ELIMINATE THE PVR/VCR LABEL -- W 120GB and DUAL TUNERS, ITS ALL PVR ANYWAYS YOU IDIOTS
3) ADD CHANNEL SUPPRESSION CAPABILITIES
4) ADD PVR FOLDERS
5) TIMER CHANGE DETECTION AND MANUAL RESOLUTION SCREEN
6) REPEAT SHOW SUPPRESSION ENHANCEMENT
7) ADD NAME BASED TIMERS IN ADDITION TO CURRENT TIMERS
8) OPTION TO LOCK A TIMER, SO THAT IT CANNOT BE INTERFERED WITH (CANNOT BE STOPPED) WHILE RECORDING (i.e. the kids can't mess up my recording option).
9) OPTION TO SWITCH TO POWER OFF DEFAULT WHILE UNIT IT STILL RECORDING -- W/MSG THAT POWER WILL GO OFF AFTER THE CURRENTLY EXECUTING TIMER(S) HAS/HAVE COMPLETED.


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## Jacob S

In a software upgrade can it be possible to compress to allow more storage on the hard drive in less quality like you can do with Tivo?


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## FlyingDiver

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *In a software upgrade can it be possible to compress to allow more storage on the hard drive in less quality like you can do with Tivo? *


I think the answer to that is no. DishPVRs don't have any encoding/compression hardware in them at all. They record the raw bit-stream to disk. Then they decode them to display. To change the compression, they would need to decode and re-encode (at a higher compression) in real-time. Not possible with the hardware they have.

joe


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## johnsmith22

Extended EPG on 119


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## sampatterson

> _Originally posted by FlyingDiver _
> *
> 
> I think the answer to that is no. DishPVRs don't have any encoding/compression hardware in them at all. They record the raw bit-stream to disk. Then they decode them to display. To change the compression, they would need to decode and re-encode (at a higher compression) in real-time. Not possible with the hardware they have.
> 
> joe *


Its a 721 with Linux, software could do this after the fact. Record the bit stream, once the recording is done, go back and compress the bit stream (software decode, software re-encode using better compress, less key frame, etc.). They could even use MPEG4 to do their re-encode, keeping the quality about the same as the original but with better storage space. This could be done "overnight" or whenever the PVR wasn't in use.


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## FlyingDiver

> _Originally posted by sampatterson _
> * Its a 721 with Linux, software could do this after the fact. Record the bit stream, once the recording is done, go back and compress the bit stream (software decode, software re-encode using better compress, less key frame, etc.). They could even use MPEG4 to do their re-encode, keeping the quality about the same as the original but with better storage space. This could be done "overnight" or whenever the PVR wasn't in use. *


Yes, a sufficiently powerful processor could do that. What's the processor in the 721? I don't think it's any kind of speed king. Doing what you suggest could require soomething on the order of 100x real time (for the decode and re-encode). And kill the responsiveness of the unit. Assuming it's got enough memory to do it in the first place. So, yes, it's theoretically possible. I don't think it's even remotely practical.

joe


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## sampatterson

That is why I said, don't do it in real time. Do it during the night or when the processor is idle.


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## Bob Haller

Giving the remotes the ability to control IR another dish receiver using the aux button.

This is a big issue here now with a 721 and 508 side by side....


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## bunkers

I second that -- thats one of my biggest gripes. And to be more specific, the AUX would be able to control a 508/501/721 on second address -- a different address than default address 0 used by the sat button and most univ. remotes.


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## bunkers

MY "REALISTIC" WISH LIST:

-- the two enhancements voted for in the 721 poll last month
(Triple timer conflict resolution screen + 1 time override AND
Event record start/ end time adjustment -- in some form,
either auto with manual prompts or just a advanced screen
which you go into to work out possible show changes)
-- some kind of repeat show suppression;
esp. great if it could suppress more than just "first runs"
and suppress based on your own personal viewing history.
aka - the TIVO equalizer enhancement
-- 3-5 customized (named) PVR folders and ability to assign
a timer event to a PVR folder, if desired. Maybe there is a 
public folder which is the default. Maybe all folders can
be toggles, or folder X, Y or Z -- similar to how favorites lists
currently work.
-- "un-favorities list" which can "ban" certain channels from 
appearing in the EPG. Nice for parental control and for simply
not having to look at channels you don't ever watch.
-- Limit searches to favorites and possibility combined with
the un-favorites "ban" list.
-- Enhanced information on timers screen, mainly the name.
Ability to rename would also be nice. IS this done already? They did add the names on the 501/508 (thank you!)
-- Control a second platinum remote address on AUX button
-- Increase max timer limitation to at least 100
-- OPTION TO LOCK A TIMER, SO THAT IT CANNOT BE INTERFERED WITH (CANNOT BE STOPPED) WHILE RECORDING (i.e. the kids can't mess up my recording option).
-- OPTION TO SWITCH TO POWER OFF DEFAULT WHILE UNIT IT STILL RECORDING -- W/MSG THAT POWER WILL GO OFF AFTER THE CURRENTLY EXECUTING TIMER (sequence) HAS COMPLETED.
-- ADD NAME BASED TIMERS IN ADDITION TO CURRENT TIMERS (if possible)
-- ADD COMMERCIAL SKIP(tm) TECHNOLOGY PLAYBACK CAPABILITY
-- ADD VCR+ METHOD OF ADDING TIMERS


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## tm22721

DN needs to colloborate with a third party remote manufacturer to resolve the inadequacy of their 'universal' remote which is a joke.

The 721 remote's Select button won't even work with my Sony 
TVs !!


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## BobMurdoch

1. BYOB - Bring your own broadband. As in, let me hook up the 721 to my Cable/DSL router and use my existing cable modem (I know..... no DSL available in my area)
2. Interactive Weather - sounds silly, but my wife misses the instant weather.
3. Name based recording. So when Fox decides to jump That 70's Show all over their schedule, I still have all the shows recorded.
4. Search Filters. Either get rid of the 600 result maximum which basically limits my ability to search for movies or series to 12 hours OR let me set filters to limit the hits. As in no matches for PPV movies, movies on channels I can't watch,since I don't subscribe to Polish TV, etc.
5. Better timer conflict resolution.. When a show is not on (ie. That 70's show on Tues at 8) and I tape another show on another channel (Buffy on UPN) WHY can't I record American Idol on Fox when it is on the same channel as the other timer? Or, if this is too tough, bring up ALL of the timers scheduled to be active at the time of the conflict. There is a bug that says that I can't record American Idol at 8PM on Tues because it conflicts with Oz at 9PM on HBO. (Huh?) 

Thses are a start. And it's kind of ironic as I just got a HD capable display at Chrstmas so I am already lusting after the 921 so I can watch some HD content (I have a dish pointed at 61.5 thanks to Charlie's free second dish to receive the NYC additional locals so I am salivating to get CBS-HD)


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## Randy_B

Well, after my first week with the 721 there are a couple of things I would recommend in addition to the most popular additions (name based recording, folders, faster/easier swap, and suspend recording event).

How about eliminating one line of channels from the guide (from 7 to 6) to allow the info block above to be a little larger. Right now, this info is pretty much subsumed by the names of the actors and you can't actually see much of the info about the episode. This was the set up on the DP and it was great. You could see all the show info from the guide.

How about allowing Boolean in the search string?

Different colored column if a recording is already scheduled (grey is no event, green if one event, red if two events) per half hour column. (example if I have Friends scheduled, and I looked at the guide I would see Survivor green from 7-7:30 and grey from 7:30-8 so I quickly know that I can set a new event.) If you have several personal guides set-up time management is nearly impossible. My daughter has a favorites list that is completely different from mine or my wife's, so when she has a pvr event, I never see it on my list at all! Doesn't make much sense to have personal lists if all you can use is the all subscribed or all channels list.

I really miss the DP capability to select day/time to jump into the guide. I like the 50x/721 jump 24 hr capability, but having the ability to select next Wed at 5pm specifically was very useful.

While I miss some of the DP capabilities, we are loving the 721. But the DPs finally had to go.


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## djlong

Does anyone know what features they're actually working on?

I've got a Dishplayer that I want to replace but the wife and kids have gotten used to name-based recordings.


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## bscoles

> _Originally posted by bunkers _
> *
> -- OPTION TO SWITCH TO POWER OFF DEFAULT WHILE UNIT IT STILL RECORDING -- W/MSG THAT POWER WILL GO OFF AFTER THE CURRENTLY EXECUTING TIMER (sequence) HAS COMPLETED.
> *


I've seen this quoted several times now & I think I must be missing something. Could someone please explain this?

I turn my unit off while recording & it continues the recording until completion. The recording light stays on while recording. - is this different than what is being requested?



Brent


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## Guest

Set timers via an Internet conneciton.


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## John Corn

djlong, I don't expect to see any name based recording feature's in the near future, I would love to have it though.


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## Randy_B

Is there a thread or note with the final list that Scott culled out of this thread, with what E* might be considering?


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## casta

They definitely should add name based recording! Why can't they build on what they've learned from their first PVR, the dishplayer. This should be a no-brainer.


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## md_paul

721 Feature Request:
Ability to select and play multiple previously recorded PVR events one after the other similar to selecting tracks to play on a CD. 

We have recorded quite a few short (1/2 hour or less) childrens shows on our 721, and it would be great to pick a few of them to play in sequence without having to go back to the PVR menu, select the next show and select "Start Over". 

Heck, a random play might even be fun too!

- Paul


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## Jacob S

Dishplayer has it to where you can select the channels you do not want to search through on the All Chan favorites list. All the channels come checked from the factory and then you just uncheck the channels that you do not want on the list, the opposite of creating a favorites list. 

Why would you want the receiver to power off after a timer goes off when it is already on when some people may still want to still want to watch tv? If the receiver is off already it will not even need to power on to start recording, it remains off, unlike the 501/508 or dishplayer. 

I would not want a receiver to power off everytime a recording is done, but an option to turn the receiver off after it is done would be a nice feature. Having too many options at the time of recording would make things clunky so there should be a drop down menu of record options just like the menu.


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## bunkers

I second that request for an exclusion list -- opposite of favorites feature. I have mentioned that in my previous lists already.

I think if DISH just modified their current timers to have the option to "roll" into adjacent timeslots (providing they don't have any conflicts when doing do), then that would fix most of the limitations which currently exist. The rolling capabilty could handle shows offset by 1 hour on either side of the timer and could also handle duration extensions of up to 1 hour on either side of the timer' timeslot (for variable length episodes).

This really wouldn't be name based timers, but would perhaps be optional features of the timer, which could enhance the timers reliability over time. This would really bring the DISH PVR timers to a while new level, IMHO. Just do it in a way which is just different enough from replay to avoid legal hassles.


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## Jacob S

I really stress the vcr+ timer functionality in which would fix the change in time of show issue.


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## mattmcg

I have an idea for a new feature for the 721. 

What about an option so that when you first setup a repeatable recording sequence (like Mon-Fri) you can then tag it for automatic deletion after a specified time period.

Here's the scenario:
1. I often miss my 5pm news because of my commute. So, I setup to record it Mon-Fri on a repeatable timer. Sometimes I'm too busy to watch it so days pass until I finally sit down to watch that evening's news. The earlier recordings are yesterday's new so no sense watching them! Why not have them self delete themselves after 2 days or so (and make this option and timeframe selectable)?

Would keep my harddrive free and not forcibly delete anything else that might be in memory!


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## BobMurdoch

A workaround for this problem is to simply use the protect function on your timers. This way you don't delete anything you still want, while leaving the "B" Level shows free to get bumped if space becomes an issue.


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## bunkers

Jason, I'm not convinced that VCR+ would be such a great thing.

I really don't know if VCR+ does anything other than map to a channel and timeslot.

Without adding some tracking of the VCR+ ID(s) in the EPG and comparing them over time, I don't think VCR+ moves when the show moves, necessarily.

I think a better solution would be to just track the existing show Name + channel + timeslot beg + timeslot end -- and compare against the EPG once per day after its been refreshed.

See my post on http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12334 for more discussion on this.

Its the cheapest, most simple and most likely to not still patent issues way of adding real capabilities to the DISH PVR timers, IMHO.


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## Jacob S

It would be better than nothing. To use VCR+ all Dish would have to do is put a number next to each episode. This could even prevent repeat shows from occuring to detect the repeats. One could search for all the codes for each episode then punch in the code instead of the time and start of each show, so that way you would know that you would be getting it recorded, and not have any issues with Tivo patents on name based recording. Would there be an issue with some VCR+ patent doing this?


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## bunkers

I doubt anything related to VCR+ is ever used in a DISH product. The owner of VCR+ is gemstar -- remember the company DISH had the legal battle with (and won)?! I don't see DISH doing a deal with the enemy. 

I think name based is friendlier than numbers anyhow -- just make better use of the existing names. We don't need unique VCR+ numbers to track show changes -- we just need to track show changes!


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## Jacob S

Yes but the whole idea is to avoid name based timers because there may be a patent against that, another way of getting those shows recorded other than show name when the time of the show changes.


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## bunkers

Since using VCR+ would require licensing, why not just license through TIVO or SBLU instead?

Also, VCR+ is just a cross reference between the name of the show, the timeslot, the channel --> and a unique number. So what do you really gain? I mean you need to know the name of the show you want to record in the first place, and then you get a number to identify that combo of name, channel, timeslot. But its really name based/name derived isn't it? 

It seems that DISH realizes that the name based battle is so confusing right now that its probably best to stay on the sidelines till it gets resolved. 

Isn't dish taking the same approach that Apple did with personal computers -- doing it all themselves, in house -- not 3rd party OEMs? It seems like a loosing strategy in the end.


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## the_beaver

i TOO vote for the most desireable
future feature of: NAME-BASED recording!!!


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## Jacob S

I think that tops the list of any feature wanted and will be a while if ever put onto the Dish receivers. Perhaps if people request it enough they can get it somehow or something similar to it.


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## EagleID

Add a Sticky Settings for the PVR view Advance and Backup buttons. For example, allow me to "sticky" set the view Advance Button for 180 seconds and the Backup button for 20 seconds. This could be added to the View Preferences Menu.


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## EagleID

Allow Searching for Programs using the number of STARS (Rating) in the keyword. For example, I want to search for and display only movies with a 3 1/2 star or above rating. Should allow for NR, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, 3, 3 1/2, and 4 Stars. Best done if the Search was logically = OR >.


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## Bill R

Chuck,

That would be a good idea if the star ratings meant anything. I have seen 4 stars given to movies that I would not ever watch. I often wonder who gives the "star" ratings. They sure seem biased at times.


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## smammon

Can't believe this hasn't been asked for... 

Ability to set a timer(s) to dub recordings to a VCR. I'm always getting movies I'd like to archive or have friends ask me to dub a show they missed to tape. Would be really nice to do that automatically at 3am... The code is already 90% written too. 

Second is ability to use USB network adapter and keyboard/mouse in conjunction with MY network and ISP. Don't even think of trying to foist dial up AOL or something crappy like that on a high end system like this - PLEASE!

Third is the much asked for Season Pass.

Fourth is the ability to schedule shows from a web browser (see #2 above). 

And for down the road - the ability to use the system as a media server. Maybe license software so systems on your network could play recordings. Or create a hardware solution to use the coax as a network for your other Dish recievers. I would love it if my wife could watch her "reality" shows in annother room!

Also lest I forget. To the development team - THANKS! This gizmo ROCKS! You have changed the way I look at TV forever! You also rule for using open source and following through on the GPL. Huge pat on the back!


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## Hopper27

Single timer skip is also critical...

I have about 20 weekly timers, but I often want to skip one once to record something once.

Jason


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