# Setanta will die very soon



## Chandu

Looks like Setanta Sports will be dead very soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8092595.stm

Those who're subscribing to this on DirecTV, DISH or other platforms may be entitled to a refund, depending on how they paid for it.


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## Chihuahua

For those here in the States who would like to watch Rugby (league and union) and/or Australian Rules Football, as well as soccer, this could be a big bummer.


Not to mention those who like to watch Gaelic Football and Hurling as well.


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## Chandu

Setanta is working today/tomorrow to break Setanta USA and Setanta Ireland from the mothership and sell them as independent entities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jun/10/setanta-rescue-plan

The problem is, I don't see how this plan would work out effectively. E.g. if the "Setanta USA" is bought out by someone like ESPN, it could already be weakened. Would such new entity still hold rights to all inventory of the dying mothership - English Premier League, Scottish League, AFL and what not. I don't forsee a strong revenue model for the buyer to even care about all that inventory other than just the English Premiership. There is no way to make profit in the current economy carrying all that "excess" inventory around.


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## jollygrunt

I cancelled it online yesterday after subscribing to it for the past month in order to watch the promotion playoff games. Special 1 TV was also pretty good. I'll miss that too.

I hope ESPN can pick up the EPL at least.


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## Chandu

No breakthrough yet, this is the latest news:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf5f39e8-55ed-11de-ab7e-00144feabdc0.html



> Setanta, which declined to comment, has held meetings with employees and told staff in Dublin on Wednesday that it believed the company was not imminently going into administration. The sports broadcaster may have raised up to £30m ($49m). Mr O'Rourke declined to comment.


Suspense, suspense....

Even later updates:

http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/912502/Setanta-plots-survival-ads/

Now they're looking for advertising agencies to "relaunch" the brand (whatever that means), should the bankruptcy not happen.



> After closing its telephone subscription sales and online subscription service on Tuesday, prospects for recovery looked more promising on Wednesday with talks said to be "progressing".


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/no-rescue-deal-yet-as-setanta-turns-away-customers-1702184.html



> The company even took the extreme step of paying staff at two-week rather than monthly intervals, "to reassure" them as uncertainty grew.
> 
> One Setanta insider said the issue was "clearly not yet fixed" but stressed it had not fallen into administration. Rumours of a potential rescue bid from the group's founders have intensified, but there were no official updates last night. The source added that Setanta was waiting on developments from "parties external to the company".


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## PBowie

I just hope setanta continue-they are better than fox .
if they go under, im sure someone will snap up the rights,
If its ESPN , Id hope to see some high def games.

but my big worry is they would use American commentators (no offense)
but the British commentators are the best.

(athough I do like Derek Rae and tommy Smyth)


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## Chandu

PBowie said:


> if they go under, im sure someone will snap up the rights,
> If its ESPN , Id hope to see some high def games.


Looks like ESPN is playing hardball here (how's that for a pun? ), and justifiably so. Because Setanta is literally weak and begging, it sounds to me like ESPN is trying to kick them to the curb.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090611-711604.html



> Disney-owned sports network ESPN ruled-out buying Setanta Sports Holdings Ltd Thursday, quashing persistent speculation it could stage a take-over bid for the struggling sports broadcaster.
> 
> "There are a lot of stories out there that link ESPN with a possible purchase. We wanted to set the record straight," an ESPN spokesman told Dow Jones Newswires.
> 
> However, ESPN didn't rule out buying soccer rights from Setanta.
> 
> "It is a hypothetical situation and a question for Setanta and the rights holder," the spokesman said.


There were rumours being reported Setanta have found a saviour who could buy their US and Ireland operations - the Irish music promoter Denis Desmond. But news below says none of the previously considered buyers - ESPN, Denis Dermot Desmond, BSkyB is the currently hottest prospect. For every dying business, is there a new sucker with too much money to burn?

I have a theory based on the maverick description being given below. Could it be the freak chief of Virgin, the one and only Sir Richard Branson???  He already owns Virgin Media and Setanta had some dealings with him in the past.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jun/11/setanta-insolvency-premier-league-television



> Setanta executives were last night expressing genuine hope that the organisation had been pulled back from the brink of collapse after a "very credible" investor emerged with an 11th-hour rescue plan.
> 
> Such was the sensitivity of the potential deal that there was no mention of the name of the bidder or its line of business. But the size and boldness of the approach took even Setanta by surprise. A senior executive contacted the Guardian last night to explain that the bid had come from "the left wing".
> 
> The executive indicated that the identity of the bidder has not been revealed in previous press reports, which means that ESPN, Sky, Al-Jazeera and the Irish *billionaire Dermot Desmond can be ruled out.


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## dhines

i can't help but wonder if all this 11th hour talk is just a bluff to prop up the sale price of its assets (contracts). am i the only one feeling this?


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## Chandu

Hahahaha, I can't stop laughing as I read this:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2477337/Setanta-gets-the-heavies-in.html



> CRISIS-HIT Setanta has hired extra security to stop furious creditors storming into offices and demanding their money or technology back.
> 
> The Irish-based broadcaster has taken on the guards to patrol their London HQ and have locked every door except one.
> 
> It's also believed creditors who hired out technology including, editing suites and video recorders, have asked for them back in case the troubled company fail to pay.
> 
> A source said: "Staff can only go in and out of one door and have been told to keep an eye out for anyone strange walking about.
> 
> "The company are taking this really seriously."


 :lol: !rolling


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## MadMac

This from a message board in Scotland (dated Tuesday, June 9):

"I work for Sky Television and we've just had a brief regarding Setanta.

As of today Setanta has stopped taking new subscribers which puts it's future in major doubt.

What we've been told is that it's possible that by tonight the cameras will be off and the vultures will come out fighting for the spoils".

The poster is a reliable source. Whether this will impact their North American operations is anyone's guess.


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## dhines

MadMac said:


> This from a message board in Scotland (dated Tuesday, June 9):
> 
> "I work for Sky Television and we've just had a brief regarding Setanta.
> 
> As of today Setanta has stopped taking new subscribers which puts it's future in major doubt.
> 
> What we've been told is that it's possible that by tonight the cameras will be off and the vultures will come out fighting for the spoils".
> 
> The poster is a reliable source. Whether this will impact their North American operations is anyone's guess.


i think this was reflected in all the news reports starting on the 8th or the 9th of the month. i really hope monday will come and news will come that ESPN will have purchased their US broadcasting rights.


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## Chandu

MadMac said:


> This from a message board in Scotland (dated Tuesday, June 9):


Yes, as dhines said those are very old news/statements. This is a story where situation has been changing in hours not days.

So it's not Sir Richard Branson after all. Is this going to save Setanta once and for all? Or is this one house of cards being replaced by another, meaning how solid is the financial standing of this new bidder? We will soon find out.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124482281541910215.html



> Len Blavatnik, a Russian-American industrialist, has made an offer for Setanta Sports Holdings Ltd. that would see him take a 51% stake in the troubled sports broadcaster for £20 million ($33 million).
> 
> Mr. Blavatnik's company, Access Industries, confirmed in a statement Friday that a proposal was submitted to Setanta's board.
> 
> "The Access proposal is subject to a number of pre-conditions being met," the company said. "Access believes that this proposal would secure the future of the broadcaster for customers, football and employees."


More info here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8097421.stm


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## Chandu

The latest change is that Setanta UK (and Ireland as well) online subscription form which had been disabled few days ago has now been turned back on.

https://secure.setantasubscriptions.com/DSATJourney.aspx?__utma=1.4441187164159179000.1244183887.1244659825.1244856435.3&__utmb=1.5.10.1244856435&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1244183887.1.1.utmcsr=%28direct%29|utmccn=%28direct%29|utmcmd=%28none%29&__utmv=-&__utmk=118451721

Does this indicate there is life left in Setanta after all?

I attempted to edit the title of this thread in light of this fluidly changing situation, but it only did it for the first post with which I started the thread. Hopefully, a mod can help me out here - make the new thread title to be same as title of first post in this thread.


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## SayWhat?

> June 13, 2009
> Russian oligarch rescues Setanta with £20m deal
> Dan Sabbagh
> 
> Setanta Sports was rescued by a Russian-born billionaire last night in a last-minute deal that will save English and Scottish football from having to plug a half-billion-pound black hole.
> 
> Len Blavatnik, one of the oligarchs behind Russian oil company TNK-BP, is to inject £20 million and take control of Setanta. That, along with other injections of cash, will ensure the company can survive.
> 
> Although his fortune has fallen from $11 billion to $4 billion, according to Forbes magazine, Mr Blavatnik still has enough money to launch a rescue of the loss-making Dublin-based sports broadcaster, which has been on the verge of collapse all week.
> 
> Better known for his investments in Russian oil and metals, through TNK-BP and Rusal, the aluminium giant, Mr Blavatnik has also built a lowprofile media portfolio. He already owns Britain's Top Up TV, a small pay-television operator that is available on digital through Freeview.
> 
> Under the terms of the deal, Mr Blavatnik's Access Industries will take a 51 per cent stake for £20 million and other investors will come forward with extra money. Setanta insiders believe that Access is willing to stand behind the business for several years as it tries to reach profitability.
> 
> Setanta will remain intact and is expected to continue with its strategy of selling subscriptions direct to Freeview and Sky customers - although Mr Blavatnik's team, who include the former Sky executive David Chance, are likely to conduct a strategic review once the deal is complete.
> 
> Access Industries said in a statement released before the rescue was confirmed that it could "confirm that this morning we submitted a proposal to the board of Setanta to acquire a majority interest in Setanta, refinancing the company".
> 
> It added that the rescue plan was subject to a number of pre-conditions being met. "Access believes that this proposal would secure the future of the broadcaster for customers, football and employees."
> 
> Setanta needed to find £30 million by today to pay the FA Premier League, and while the payment is not thought to have been made yet, the League is understood to be willing to wait while the rescue is finalised. Setanta also owes £3 million to the Scottish Premier League, due last week, and is thought to need as much as £100 million for the medium term.
> 
> Mr Blavatnik was educated in America at Colombia University, and for a long time was based in New York, becoming a US citizen before moving his main home to Kensington, London.
> 
> He owns Access Industries, a company that mainly invests in Russian businesses, including TNK-BP, Rusal and a controlling stake in chemical company LyondellBasell, whose American interests filed for Chapter 11 last year, prompting a row because Royal Bank of Scotland had to write off a £2.5 billion loan.
> 
> His media interests are more limited but apart from Top Up TV, Mr Blavatnik was also a board member of Warner Music, the world's number three record company.
> 
> Setanta's Russian rescue came on the same day that another Irish media group, Independent News & Media, tried to dampen speculation that it would sell The Independent newspaper to another oligarch, Alexander Lebedev. Gavin O'Reilly, chief executive, speaking after the company's annual meeting, said that Mr Lebedev had not made an offer but added that The Independent and Mr Lebedev's Evening Standard were "co-tenants" and were exploring financial co-operation.
> 
> Nevertheless, Mr Lebedev is thought to be increasingly interested in making an offer for Britain's fourth- ranked quality newspaper to integrate it with the Standard - but the oligarch will be distracted briefly as the 49-year-old awaits the imminent birth of his second child.


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6487193.ece


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## SayWhat?

*Although his fortune has fallen from $11 billion to $4 billion, according to Forbes magazine,*

Ouch!!

Kinda puts my 401K in perspective, eh?


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## dhines

> It added that the rescue plan was subject to a number of pre-conditions being met. "Access believes that this proposal would secure the future of the broadcaster for customers, football and employees.


outstanding . . . new ownership *with cash*. i am thinking this means HD will be on the horizon. time will tell . . . once it gets confirmed, i will be resubscribing.


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## Chandu

dhines said:


> outstanding . . . new ownership *with cash*. i am thinking this means HD will be on the horizon. time will tell . . . once it gets confirmed, i will be resubscribing.


Don't know if all the contracts, legal paperwork have still been signed and dusted; because:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ec69b820-59b5-11de-b687-00144feabdc0.html

The English Premiership warned Setanta today that they have *4 more days* to sort themselves out and their patience is running thin. They're looking after their interest, and don't want their premier brand be tarnished by this mess.



> The Premier League has stepped up the pressure on Setanta, the sports broadcaster facing insolvency, by issuing a tender for the group's 46 live, top-flight football matches and setting Friday as a deadline for payment.
> 
> The league said it "would like to provide Setanta with as much time as possible to rearrange its finances" but noted that the start of the 2009-10 season was "two months away".


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## dhines

interesting, guess this will play out over this weekend.


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## Chandu

ESPN now says that if Setanta miss out on their payment by Friday, they would be interested in bidding for English Premiership rights held by Setanta. So ESPN was never interested in acquiring all of Setanta, but obviously only interested in snatching their jewel in the crown inventory. Had not that Russian white-knight shown up and Setanta died, ESPN or others might have gotten those rights far cheaper. Let's see how this plays out.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3cfbb816-5aa5-11de-8c14-00144feabdc0.html



> ESPN, the US sports cable channel owned by Walt Disney, will bid for the Premier League rights held by Setanta in the event that the struggling media company is forced to relinquish them, according to a person familiar with the process.
> 
> ESPN missed out on the rights when they were auctioned in February, with British Sky Broadcasting picking up five of the packages and only one going to Setanta. Since then, however, Setanta has been hit by a cash crunch and needs to complete a financial restructuring to stay afloat. The Premier League said this week it would re-auction Setanta's rights if the company failed to make a £10m payment on Friday.


Meanwhile, BT Vision the internet broadband carrier in UK which carried Setanta Broadband, but had temporarily suspended taking new subscribers has now resumed taking new customers. This is after the rich Russian dude supposedly stepped in. There is still a game of chess being played, we may find out more tomorrow.

http://www.top10-broadband.co.uk/news/2009/06/bt_vision_to_resume_setanta_sports_broadband_service/



> On-demand broadband TV service BT Vision has announced that is to resume sales of Setanta Sports to its customers.
> 
> The troubled Irish broadcaster was forced to suspend new subscriptions to its sports TV package last week because of severe financial difficulties.
> 
> However, BT revealed that it has held talks with Setanta, which is confident of securing enough investment from tycoon Len Blavatnik and Dutch media company Endemol to continue operating.


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## Chandu

24 hours have come and gone, and still no news of any payment from Setanta to English Premiership. The clock is now literally ticking in hours and not days about Setanta's survival. I cannot see how a deadline extension can be granted. There is simply no time left for that, considering how tedious the project planning gets for a broadcasting effort of this magnitude. Was the Russian billionaire simply intermittent noise, but not the final solution? We will find out in few more hours.

Just after I said that, here is the latest news:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/18/setanta-premier-league-payment



> Industry sources say they expect Setanta to meet that deadline, but that it is unlikely to pay the cash until late in the day.
> 
> Setanta is believed to have enough cash to make the payment regardless, but the Premier League is not prepared to wait beyond the weekend for evidence that the company is financially secure.


It's all a lot of wrangling between the Russian dude and other investors of Setanta to fight it out, depending on how risky this financial proposition is.


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## Chandu

Start writing the Setanta obituary guys!! :nono:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8109954.stm

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=656093&sec=england&cc=5901

English club football on ESPN (maybe as PPV package), here we come.

It also looks like end of any Rugby Union/League as well as Australian Football coverage in USA.


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## vansmack

*Setanta Sports USA 
Important Customer Message*

As has been widely reported in various media channels, Setanta Sports has today had its agreement to broadcast 46 Barclays Premier League matches in the UK terminated.

This development does not affect our channels and other services in the US.

Setanta Sports in the US is a separate operation that has separate agreement to show the Barclay's Premier League. Our channels and other services in the US continue to broadcast and our subscribers can still enjoy our programming including the Lions Tour of South Africa and the UEFA U21 European Championship.

New customers are welcome to subscribe to watch some of the world's best soccer and rugby either by contacting our cable and satellite partners or online at www.setanta.com.

We thank you for your continued interest in Setanta Sports and look forward to bringing you a wealth of sport over the coming months and years.

http://www.setanta.com/global/us.html


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## Chandu

vansmack said:


> *Setanta Sports USA
> Important Customer Message*
> 
> As has been widely reported in various media channels, Setanta Sports has today had its agreement to broadcast 46 Barclays Premier League matches in the UK terminated.
> 
> This development does not affect our channels and other services in the US.
> 
> Setanta Sports in the US is a separate operation that has separate agreement to show the Barclay's Premier League. Our channels and other services in the US continue to broadcast and our subscribers can still enjoy our programming including the Lions Tour of South Africa and the UEFA U21 European Championship.
> 
> New customers are welcome to subscribe to watch some of the world's best soccer and rugby either by contacting our cable and satellite partners or online at www.setanta.com.
> 
> We thank you for your continued interest in Setanta Sports and look forward to bringing you a wealth of sport over the coming months and years.
> 
> http://www.setanta.com/global/us.html


Somehow, this reads like a corporate marketing PR; a face-saving gimmick to me. I don't know how much to trust this, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Why? Because it makes no sense to me at all. The main arm of the company has lots its most valuable inventory for UK and Ireland rights. They've lost their head, neck, their heart; pretty much their vital organs. That is where the biggest financial shortfall came from. Even the English Premier League itself doesn't know who is going to acquire those rights now; we may find out on Monday.

Let's assume for argument sake that ESPN acquires them. Why would it make sense for ESPN and Premiership to then allow those rights in USA to be sold to an entity like Setanta USA? Nowhere in the news it states that Setanta USA (and Setanta Canada) have been spun off as independent entities yet. The investor(s) in the news didn't seem interested in acquiring the American or Candian arms as pieces. It makes no sense for a company like ESPN if they were to win UK and Ireland rights to then sell to a company like Setanta in USA or Canada. They can very easily include rights on the American ESPN or Candian TSN as part of these negotiations now. The way things stand, Setanta brand name has got no credibility left anymore. It is severely crippled on life support. Given the financial risk and lack of a buyer only in American and Canadian entities of this company, I'm about to write them off as "once have-been wannabes".

These guys tried to bite more than they could chew and are now facing the harsh consequences.

The other stuff like Rugby Union, AFL is very small piece of the game. It is so micro-niche, really only a PPV model makes most sense financially; not even current premium subscription. Do you honestly want to believe there are so many compelling subscribers in USA only due to Rugby Union or only due to Australian Football? No way. Bulk of those premium subscribers were only due to English Premiership or Champions League. If the Premiership rights in USA come in danger, watch the subscriber base dropping like flies. Show me the financial balance sheet of the Setanta USA with a projected decline in subscriber base, under such financial uncertainties. Show me which investor in their right mind would want to keep burning money on a gravely ill and dying patient like this.

I think next week is going to be crucial for the American landscape for this channel to become lot clearer.

EDIT: What I wrote above is not hyperbole. Here, take a look at the extent of damage the parent company has suffered; and how the rich Russian dude walked away from this mess before you could say "oh ....". Setanta USA has not been spun off from parent Setanta yet, therefore I'm justified in thinking that in their present form their days in US maybe numbered as well.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2009/06/20/sportstory13331199t0.asp



> It is understood that Access Industries, whose owner Len Blavatnik emerged as a prospective buyer a week ago, sealed Setanta's fate after turning down the offer to take a stake in the company.
> 
> Access's investigations into the company's finances found that a £50 million VAT bill is still due to be paid to the taxman and that effectively ended Setanta's hopes of a bail out.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82cf4e6c-5cd4-11de-9d42-00144feabdc0.html



> In the event of administration, the equity investments of Setanta's shareholders, which include Doughty Hanson and Balderton Capital, the private equity firms, and Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, would be wiped out.


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## Chandu

The day after:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0620/setanta.html



> Management at Setanta Sports have held crisis meetings in London in an attempt to save the company after it lost a significant contract with the Premier League in Britain.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article6539855.ece



> Clubs and governing bodies could lose millions of pounds in television revenue after Setanta Sports failed to meet a deadline to pay £10 million to the Premier League.
> 
> The FA said that it had reached a solution with Setanta over their contract, but it had been contingent on the Premier League also finding an agreement with the broadcaster. "We are very disappointed with the news," Ian Watmore, the FA chief executive, said. "We await developments, but remain confident of the attractiveness of our broadcast rights going forward."
> 
> Setanta released a statement late last night, which said it would "consider its options" over the weekend. "In the meantime, Setanta's sports channels continue on air," it said.


http://www.digitalspy.com/broadcasting/a161081/setanta-us-retains-premier-league-rights.html



> Setanta's US operation has announced that it will continue to show Premier League matches despite yesterday's termination of the agreement between Setanta UK and the League.
> 
> "This development does not affect our channels and other services in the US.
> 
> "Setanta Sports in the US is a separate operation that has separate agreement to show the Barclays Premier League. Our channels and other services in the US continue to broadcast and our subscribers can still enjoy our programming including the Lions Tour of South Africa and the UEFA U21 European Championship."
> 
> Setanta US is continuing to accept new subscribers. Setanta in Canada is similarly unaffected by the turmoil in the UK, as is Setanta Australia and Setanta Africa.


But the million dollar question (quite literally) as I asked above is: Who are the wise investor(s) which will keep this Setanta US alive now, after the parent company is almost guaranteed to fold?


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## kstuart

There is a lot of misunderstanding out there about English Premier League broadcasts *in the USA.*

Here are the facts:

- All of the above references to "ESPN" are actually "ESPN International" and only affect UK broadcast rights.

- The broadcast rights in the UK are *entirely separate *from the broadcast rights in the USA. All of the USA broadcast rights for many years, including the upcoming August 2009 through May 2010 Premier League Season *are owned by Fox Sports International* who own Fox Soccer Channel USA.

- Setanta USA channel sub-leases half the Premier League broadcast rights from Fox. If they go out of business, Fox retains the rights.

- Setanta USA channel is a mildly profitable business owned by Setanta UK, a very unprofitable business. If Setanta UK goes bankrupt, then Setanta USA is a valuable asset that will be sold, and would lose its value if it stopped operating, so it is likely to continue at least for the next year much the same as it has.

- *In January 2010, Fox Soccer launch Fox Soccer Channel HD, which will carry 1-2 Premier League matches in full HD, as well as UEFA Champions League matches in full HD, and possibly Serie A matches in HD.* Meanwhile, Fox will also show UEFA Champions League matches in full HD starting in August (perhaps Arsenal ?) on the HD Regional Sports Networks. They will not be blacked out, so if your local RSN does not carry them, then simply subscribe to Dish Network Multi-Sports ($5 per month) or the equivalent DirecTV pack and you will get to see them. In May 2010, Fox will air the UEFA Champions League Final on FX-HD (it is scheduled to be played on a Saturday, btw).

PS I know for a fact that the new programming people at Dish Network are aware of the plans for Fox Soccer Channel HD and understands its importance to soccer fans.


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## Chandu

kstuart said:


> If Setanta UK goes bankrupt...


You really mean the "has been" (soon to be "had been") headquarters for the company. So, it's not a question of "if", rather "when". Also, it's not just "Setanta UK" if at all there had been such a thing that will go bankrupt. The entire company will. The earliest estimates I've seen are as early as tomorrow. At least over the next week would be a reasonable estimate.

http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxing-Examiner~y2009m6d21-Body-blow-to-UK-boxing-as-Setanta-folds-tent



> That´s not exactly a state secret but now sources are telling me that Setanta could shut it doors as soon as Monday.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8111563.stm



> Television platform BT Vision has stopped selling Setanta Sports after the Irish broadcaster lost its rights to the English Premier league.





> ...Setanta USA is a valuable asset that will be sold...


Of course, but the question is to whom? ESPN/Disney or Fox/News Corp, or someone else?? I think ESPN will snap them up on very cheap now. It looks next to impossible an independent entity called Setanta USA can continue running without being sold, if the main company and headquarters folds. Who are the investors that will keep funding it? Even though it may be shown "profitable" on its own, there may have been some subsidizing from the headquarter which we don't know about. We haven't seen the details on financial balance sheets, so I'm not willing to take the company's official statement as gospel.



> *In January 2010, Fox Soccer launch Fox Soccer Channel HD, which will carry 1-2 Premier League matches in full HD, as well as UEFA Champions League matches in full HD, and possibly Serie A matches in HD.* Meanwhile, Fox will also show UEFA Champions League matches in full HD starting in August (perhaps Arsenal ?) on the HD Regional Sports Networks. They will not be blacked out, so if your local RSN does not carry them, then simply subscribe to Dish Network Multi-Sports ($5 per month) or the equivalent DirecTV pack and you will get to see them. In May 2010, Fox will air the UEFA Champions League Final on FX-HD (it is scheduled to be played on a Saturday, btw).


Somewhat tangentially related info, but mostly non sequitur paragraph which doesn't directly address the topic of this thread:

What is the immediate future of Setanta USA, and who/when will they be sold to? If they're not spun off/sold as a unit, what will be the fate of different rights held by them? Yes, the English Premiership will automatically revert to Fox, but then there are questions about scheduling and bandwidth. As far as I know, Fox won't launch a separate dedicated channel of separate content to be able to show 2 concurrently live English Premiership matches. Fox Soccer Channel HD and SD will be simulcasts of same content at a given time. There is no talk of using FX as a spillover channel for showing a second concurrently live match.

It's not just English Premeirship and Champions League which Setanta USA showed. What will happen to all other little stuff: Scottish League, French League, Coca Cola Championship, Russian League AND last but not the least, what about Rugby Union, Australian Football, Gaelic sport and Rugby League? What Fox plans to do with their HD channels means little for these questions if Fox (or even ESPN) don't touch these things. In most likelihood they won't. My prediction is, most of this stuff will end up in PPV or internet broadband streaming e.g. ESPN360 category.



> PS I know for a fact that the new programming people at Dish Network are aware of the plans for Fox Soccer Channel HD and understands its importance to soccer fans.


An even more non sequitur statement for this subforum, since it's a sports programming specific, platform neutral area. There are DirecTV as well as DISH or even cable consumers here, not necessarily all caring about what Dish plans to do.


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## kstuart

The thread in the Dish Network area was closed with a link to this one.

I never make negative statements about other providers, since I do not subscribe to their services, so I cannot comment. So, the information about Dish Network is just information, not intended as being "against" any other provider.

In regards to Setanta Sports USA Channel, if the reports are true that it is a profitable operation, then it will continue *as it is now.* Someone might buy a failing operation for the "parts" (customer list, rights contracts, etc). But in this case, no one is going to buy the channel only to move the programming from a $15 per month channel to an ad-supported channel (like ESPN). The value is a base of customers willing to pay $15 per month.

If someone was interested in the USA rights contracts for the various overseas sports, _then they would have already bid for them before._ In actuality, Setanta USA does a unique job of putting together a bunch of tiny groups of fans of overseas sports - rugby, soccer, etc. - that together make a base that can support a channel. All those sports have previously failed to generate enough advertising to support themselves on a free channel like ESPN. Only the English Premier League, and UEFA Champions League have enough English language viewers to be supported by advertising.

So, either Setanta Sports *USA* channel will cease entirely *or* it will be sold to someone who will operate it just as it has operated in the past.

Setanta UK has creditors like Goldman Sachs who could end up with Setanta Sports USA channel in bankruptcy proceedings, and who would want to preserve its financial value by continuing to operate it.

Its conceivable that Fox Sports International might end up operating Setanta Sports USA, since they would continue collecting $15 per month, but they would not have to pay themselves for the EPL and UEFA CL sub-leasing rights.


----------



## Chandu

kstuart said:


> The thread in the Dish Network area was closed with a link to this one.


Oh, OK; I had no idea about that. That's cool.



> In regards to Setanta Sports USA Channel, if the reports are true that it is a profitable operation, then it will continue *as it is now.*


The trouble is that, the "if" in your sentence maybe a big 'if". If I were an investor, I would have a "once bitten, twice shy" attitude about this, unless and until every single penny on the books is fully accounted for. Refer to the links above in this thread, in which the Russian billionaire found about a huge unpaid tax bill as a surprise. And about the big Goldman Sachs investment which has been completely wiped out, with nothing to show for. With this sort of financial track record, it's hard to be certain if those Setanta USA specific profitability reports are true. Who knows how they're breaking down the numbers, and whether they're moving numbers from one subsidy of business to another for international tax reasons or whatever. I'm not necessarily accusing them. All I'm saying is that we've seen a lot of financial wizardry lately; so there are unknowns here.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/world/news/e3i34e2ede5adb7e1e88d0364c005a2701d



> Setanta execs are thought to have spent the weekend in talks to secure some kind of future, but the loss of the Premier League rights is thought to be a major blow.
> 
> Setanta had also been looking for a sale of its international businesses, but so far no buyer has been found.





> Setanta UK has creditors like Goldman Sachs who could end up with Setanta Sports USA channel in bankruptcy proceedings, and who would want to preserve its financial value by continuing to operate it.


It's a conjecture, and your guess is as good as mine. Given that Goldman Sachs has already lost so much money already, I don't know if either them or Deloitte (who're supposed to be running administration from quoted reports) have got the wherewithal to continue to operate it as is.


----------



## Mariah2014

Setanta has now been striped of all of their epl rights in the UK and have also lost the rights now to SPL as well. I have know doubt that they will likely fold in the next day or so. Suprised it hasn't happened yet. EPL handed a package of games to ESPN international that wasn't suposed to be up for bidding yet, but the rights for 2010-2013 also went to them taking everything Setanta had in the UK.


----------



## FTA Michael

Chandu said:


> Given that Goldman Sachs has already lost so much money already ...


I'm not sure that's a given; check the financial news lately.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank kstuart for his info. Setanta's a great channel, and I'd hate to see it go under here. Unless that meant that I'd get to watch all its programming for free somewhere else.


----------



## bones boy

kstuart said:


> - *In January 2010, Fox Soccer launch Fox Soccer Channel HD, which will carry 1-2 Premier League matches in full HD, as well as UEFA Champions League matches in full HD, and possibly Serie A matches in HD.* Meanwhile, Fox will also show UEFA Champions League matches in full HD starting in August (perhaps Arsenal ?) on the HD Regional Sports Networks. They will not be blacked out, so if your local RSN does not carry them, then simply subscribe to Dish Network Multi-Sports ($5 per month) or the equivalent DirecTV pack and you will get to see them. In May 2010, Fox will air the UEFA Champions League Final on FX-HD (it is scheduled to be played on a Saturday, btw).


Do you have a link that substantiates this? I have a friend that works for Fox Sports and he's heard nothing about this. The rumors I've seen on the Web state by the *end* of 2010. Do you have better info?


----------



## Chandu

FTA Michael said:


> I'm not sure that's a given; check the financial news lately.


Huh, what financial news? I'm not talking about general financial standing of Goldman Sachs, rather how much money Goldman Sachs has wasted investing specifically in Setanta. That information is well documented earlier in the thread among numerous links I posted.


----------



## kstuart

ESPN *International* has won the rights to all Premiership broadcast rights previously purchased by Setanta *UK* (from 2009-2013) and has already sold non-exclusive broadcasting rights for the 46 matches in 2009-2010 to BSkyB "Sky" and is in negotiations with other UK providers, like BT and Virgin.

*This does not affect US broadcast rights in any way, they are only for the UK.*

ESPN International already has two channels in the UK that show American sports, but it chose not to show the Premiership matches on those channels.

FA and Scottish League rights held by Setanta will be auctioned soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8113702.stm


----------



## kstuart

bones boy said:


> Do you have a link that substantiates this? I have a friend that works for Fox Sports and he's heard nothing about this. The rumors I've seen on the Web state by the *end* of 2010. Do you have better info?


People have friends who are idiots, apparently, as this is the second time today that I have read "I have a friend who works for... " and what the friend said was totally wrong.

*The head of Fox Soccer Channel* was on Fox Football Fone-in a few weeks ago and stated what I typed, I heard it myself. A one minute google search should turn it up.

Update:

here it is:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17431471&postcount=253


----------



## Chandu

Ha, take a look at this. :nono2:

http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/summer-sports/224506-as-setanta-struggle-a-director-enjoys-wimbledon-royal-box-treatment

A Setanta executive was seen in the Wimbledon royal box earlier Monday, on the first day of Wimbledon. The same day on which ESPN came invading, snatching English Premiership rights. Maybe he will now find a job with ESPN instead?



> FIVE STAR TREATMENT: Trevor East joined June Whitfield and Sir Jackie Stewart as guests of honour at Wimbledon's Royal Box
> 
> As the 58-year old former ITV and Sky executive enjoyed Roger Federer and Serena Williams make winning starts to their All England Club campaigns, more than 400 staff at his company were busying with their CVs.


Meanwhile, the Setanta executive board had their meeting in London earlier today (which it seems that Wimbledon going guy didn't attend, he had his priorities set right ) about what to do next. But haven't heard about its outcome on the newswire yet. Maybe tomorrow.

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/news/article/14173/leadership/setanta-board-meets-to-consider-firms-future



> The board of pay-per-view TV broadcaster Setanta Sports is to meet in London later on today in an attempt to rescue the company from going into administration.


----------



## kstuart

La Liga will be on ESPN in the *USA*:



> ESPN landed a share of U.S. broadcast rights to la Liga today, splitting TV rights to the Spanish league with GolTV. Amazing how that came down right afrer Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka landed in Real Madrid!
> 
> ESPN2 will air about 20 games a year, and ESPN Deportes two or three per weekend. They'll have at least 114 a year available online on ESPN360. Which means we get to see tons of Kaka, who was the 2007 FIFA player of the year for AC Milan, and CR7, who was last season's FIFA player of the year for Manchester United.
> ...
> The league's most-watched games, the two El Classic matchups between Barcelona and Real Madrid, likely will be simulcast by GolTV and ESPN.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=656581&sec=us&cc=5901


----------



## Chandu

A US media blogger's take on these suddenly happening events, and what they mean to TV viewers in USA:

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/My_Turn/17308-Setanta_On_the_Ropes.php

Australian Football fanatics in USA blog about implications for AFL coverage in USA:

http://www.afana.com/drupal5/news/2009/06/21/setanta_faces_receivership_within_hours-1394



> The fate of the US operations are unclear at this hour but it may not survive if the parent does not (barring a last minute sale). AFL broadcasts in the US and Canada may end at any time.
> 
> AFANA will be consulting with the AFL and seek ways to save US coverage however fans should now be prepared for the channel to suspend operations at any time and for AFL coverage to end. We hope it won't but hope is thin at this stage.


----------



## bones boy

kstuart said:


> People have friends who are idiots,


:thats::rotfl::thats::rotfl::thats::rotfl::thats:

:icon_lame


----------



## Chandu

I addressed the Australian Football fan situation in earlier post. Now, here are news concerning Gaelic sports followers.

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa-chiefs-monitoring-setanta-situation-94701.html



> Apart from the financial blow to the GAA coffers, there is also the widespread concern about the impact a possible collapse would have on the ex-pat community who rely on the service to watch league and championship games.
> 
> Chairman of the North American GAA Board, Joe Lydon, described the worst case scenario as "a devastating blow".
> 
> Lydon said: "It would be a devastating blow. Watching games on Setanta provides a valuable connection to home for thousands of people in America. It is like a ritual out here in Boston. People get up early, watch the match from home on television and then go and cheer on their own teams out here. The crowds here for those games at all hours of the morning are incredible and it will leave a major hole in people's lives if it were to go.''
> 
> "It will impact on the ex-pat community in Europe. More people will be forced to go to pubs to watch matches which isn't right. A lot of people have been in contact with me over the last couple of weeks and are very worried about what access they will have to matches if anything happens to Setanta."


----------



## Chandu

Chandu said:


> Yes, the English Premiership will automatically revert to Fox, but then there are questions about scheduling and bandwidth. As far as I know, Fox won't launch a separate dedicated channel of separate content to be able to show 2 concurrently live English Premiership matches. Fox Soccer Channel HD and SD will be simulcasts of same content at a given time. There is no talk of using FX as a spillover channel for showing a second concurrently live match.


Aha, here is a thought which just occurred to me:

If Setanta USA isn't able to find a buyer quickly and US broadcast rights for English Premiership default back to Fox:

Fox could use Fox Soccer Channel (SD/HD) and Fox Sports en Espan~ol to show 2 live concurrent matches if needed. Before Setanta USA came along, Fox Sports World or Fox Soccer Channel sometimes used to do this in association with FSE anyway. I heard this is what they plan to do for Champions League coverage as well. It also mirrors the model ESPN used for Champions' League with ESPN2 and ESPN Deportes.

Of course, it would raise the language issue on 2 different channels - English vs. Espan~ol. If they want to be fancy, they could provide English as SAP audio digitally to all providers for FSE; and maybe Espan~ol as SAP audio for FSC. I believe FSE is already setup for English audio as SAP for select matches (e.g. Copa Libertadores), but currently this SAP facility is only setup with few providers e.g. DirecTV. They may have to extend it to all providers, DISH, Comcast, FiOS, Time Warner etc.

I think they can get over the bandwidth issue easily, and if those rights revert back to Fox, it may not be such a bad thing after all. Of course, it can only be 1 HD match at a time. But it's not as if Setanta had any plans of HD rollout, so such solution purely from English Premiership perspective would be no worse than today.


----------



## Mariah2014

Setanta went into bankrupcy today. They are still trying to find a buyer for the networks outside the UK. We still may end up losing setanta usa. They may not have much to air onyway as each of their contracts from different areas gets taken away from them.


----------



## Chandu

Indeed, it has happened a day later than I expected; but it has happened.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Irish-Sports-Broadcaster-Setanta-Goes-Into-Administration/Article/200906415315580



> About 200 UK jobs are set to be lost after the British arm of pay-TV broadcaster Setanta Sport went off-air and into administration.
> 
> The Irish firm's UK channels were turned off at 6pm and replaced with a message telling viewers that the company had "ceased trading in Great Britain".
> 
> Deloitte, which has been appointed administrator, said Setanta's international and Ireland businesses will stay on air while a buyer is sought.


----------



## bgilga

Does anyone think ESPN will go after the Setanta U.S. channel? This could be the "ESPN 3" channel we have been hearing rumors about


----------



## Chihuahua

bgilga said:


> Does anyone think ESPN will go after the Setanta U.S. channel? This could be the "ESPN 3" channel we have been hearing rumors about


And turn it into a dumping ground for poker and fishing reruns?


----------



## FaderMD

Chihuahua said:


> And turn it into a dumping ground for poker and fishing reruns?


Ugh.. that is exactly why NBC shows "poker after dark" at like 3am. It's not exactly a ratings machine.

If i lose Setanta and can't get any Rugby i'm slowly gonna lose my mind! ESPN really doesn't have much interest in Rugby, Aussie Rules, or anything along those lines.

I really hope this gets resolved.


----------



## Chandu

TV screenshot:


----------



## dhines

Chandu said:


> TV screenshot:


where are you getting that screenshot? you are in the US, no? per my tv setanta US is still broadcasting.


----------



## Chandu

Looks like they've got traction for buyers for Setanta Ireland. No word on any buyer for Setanta USA yet. They've both been put up for sale. (No idea about Setanta Australia and Setanta Africa, although I would imagine the same for them.)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0624/1224249415370.html



> LIBERTY GLOBAL, the Colorado-listed parent company of Irish cable TV providers NTL and Chorus, is interested in acquiring Setanta Sports' Irish business, which was yesterday put up for sale following the collapse of its sister operation in Britain.
> 
> Shane O'Neill, Liberty's Irish-born chief strategy officer, said: "We would be interested in the Irish side of the business. We like the channel and it's liked by our customers."
> 
> Music promoter Denis Desmond, who owns 20 per cent of Setanta Ireland, confirmed that he is also in discussions about buying the business here.
> 
> "We are talking to them," he said, in a reference to discussions with Deloitte, which was yesterday appointed as receiver to four Ireland-based Setanta companies. Deloitte is also acting as an administrator to two Setanta entities in the UK.
> 
> It is understood that a number of expressions of interest have already been lodged with Deloitte in relation to the Irish business, which could have its fate decided in a matter of days.





dhines said:


> where are you getting that screenshot? you are in the US, no? per my tv setanta US is still broadcasting.


The posted screenshot above went on pretty much all major newswires earlier today. As clearly as the screenshot states, it applies to British customers of the channel. Since you're based in USA, it shouldn't apply to you. At least not yet. :grin: Who knows, an equivalent screenshot with corresponding USA phone number would show up on your channel soon.


----------



## MadMac

The Setanta US site is carrying the following message at http://www.setanta.com/global/us.html:

It has been announced today by the Board of Setanta Sport Holdings Limited that it has not proved possible to secure the additional financing required to ensure the future viability of certain Setanta businesses in Great Britain. As a consequence, the Board has taken the decision to seek the appointment of Receivers to the parent company, Setanta Sport Holdings Limited, and certain subsidiaries in Ireland, and Administrators to certain English subsidiaries.

Setanta International is not covered by these appointments.
Setanta's services in the US will continue to trade normally.

Also, it has been widely reported in various media channels, Setanta Sports has had its agreement to broadcast 46 Barclays Premier League matches in the UK terminated.

This development does not affect our channels and other services in the US.

Setanta Sports in the US is a separate operation that has separate agreement to show the Barclay's Premier League. Our channels and other services in the US continue to broadcast and our subscribers can still enjoy our programming including the Lions Tour of South Africa and the UEFA U21 European Championship.

New customers are welcome to subscribe to watch some of the world's best soccer and rugby either by contacting our cable and satellite partners or online at www.setanta.com.

We thank you for your continued interest in Setanta Sports and look forward to bringing you a wealth of sport over the coming months and years.


----------



## Chandu

Yet another blogger blogs about the anxiety around fate of Setanta USA.

http://www.epltalk.com/what-will-happen-to-setanta-us/8535/comment-page-1/



> But let's not kid ourselves. Setanta US, even as a separate organization, is in a perilous position right now. The channel will be tarnished by the negative publicity that has been generated around Setanta UK and has presumably seen a decrease in the number of subscriber sales in the US as well as an increase in the number of cancellations by consumers who are either concerned or confused about the future of Setanta US.
> 
> The timing of Setanta UK's demise is unfortunate for Setanta US. The jewel crown of the TV rights business, the English Premier League, is up for bidding in the United States in a few months from now for the 2010-2013 seasons. If Setanta UK folds and Setanta US survives, the big question is whether Setanta US will still have the funding available to mount a serious bid for the TV rights to the Premier League.


----------



## Mariah2014

I think that is what really will determine if someone will buy it. If no one thinks they can get those rights, then I believe it will fold as a result. I would be shocked to see Setanta USA survive to the opening of this years EPL season. As they default on different contracts all over the world I would expect and lose games on the networks as a result. I would expect them to fold as they lose more subscribers as a result of that. EPL was the only reason I signed up for them. If they lose those games, then I will drop my subscription to them.


----------



## Chandu

Chandu said:


> Looks like they've got traction for buyers for Setanta Ireland. No word on any buyer for Setanta USA yet. They've both been put up for sale. (No idea about Setanta Australia and Setanta Africa, although I would imagine the same for them.)


Setanta Australia say they're looking for a buyer just like Setanta USA as well; but otherwise it's still "business as usual".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2608249.htm?section=business



> Administrators are looking for a buyer for the Australian arm of pay TV sports channel Setanta, after its UK parent operation went into receivership yesterday.
> 
> But Setanta Australia general manager Conor Woods says it will be business as usual in Australia, where Setanta has the rights to screen soccer's UEFA Cup as well as matches from England, Scotland, and Germany.
> 
> "We're not in administration, along with the other international Setanta channels which are Ireland, Canada, the USA and Africa," Mr Woods said today.
> 
> "I wouldn't describe it (the Australian operation) as being in financial trouble at all. The statement from the receivers is that they are not putting the other businesses in administration, because they are going concerns.
> 
> "They are in discussions with partners to take on those businesses."
> 
> But Mr Woods said he could not comment on whether there would be trouble if administrators Deloitte failed to find any buyers.


----------



## Chandu

A different blogger (who only seems to care about one league BTW, the English Premiership) seems to think it would be a good thing if Setanta USA vanished.

http://www.epltalk.com/premier-league-could-become-more-popular-in-states-without-setanta/8603



> In its years of broadcasting in North America, Setanta has been both a godsend and a detriment to the success of the Premier League in the United States. It's been a godsend because, in combination with Fox Soccer Channel, die-hard followers of the league have been able to watch almost every single Premier League for several years. But in many ways, the channel has at the same time prevented the league from becoming more popular in this country.


----------



## dhines

Chandu said:


> A different blogger (who only seems to care about one league BTW, the English Premiership) seems to think it would be a good thing if Setanta USA vanished.
> 
> http://www.epltalk.com/premier-league-could-become-more-popular-in-states-without-setanta/8603


i totally agree with that point, as the casual fan will never cough up the $15 per month for on SD channel. but, it served its purpose for the time. if FSC and GolTV can survive without nailing the consumer for $15 per month, why can't setanta?


----------



## kstuart

dhines said:


> i totally agree with that point, as the casual fan will never cough up the $15 per month for on SD channel. but, it served its purpose for the time. if FSC and GolTV can survive without nailing the consumer for $15 per month, why can't setanta?


Setanta shows all the sports for which the viewership is too small to support showing them on an advertising supported channel like FSC or GolTV.

Also, monthly subscription is by far the better alternative to advertising.

HBO is $10-$15 per month, but you get to watch programs without interruption, bugs, crawls, without them being shown out of order, without programs being cancelled in the middle of the season.

The same thing would be fine for sports.

PS The EPL Talk has the usual blinders on his eyes, i.e. the ability to understand that most people will never be interested in his particular passion. *A Foreign League of any sport will not be popular in the USA, ever.* People in Chicago care about Chicago, not about Manchester.


----------



## Chandu

kstuart said:


> PS The EPL Talk has the usual blinders on his eyes, i.e. the ability to understand that most people will never be interested in his particular passion. *A Foreign League of any sport will not be popular in the USA, ever.* People in Chicago care about Chicago, not about Manchester.


Well, it's a bit more grey area than that, but you're right; those epltalk guys have too narrow focus. The issue is that if a particular league ends up having many American players at top level playing in it, many Americans would be perfectly justified to take passionate interest in it irrespective of whether they're in Chicago or Seattle. Not saying EPL comes even close yet (with few players at Fulham and Everton etc.) compared to number of players from Argentina/Brasil that play in Spain/Italy etc. However, it can certainly get there in the future.


----------



## dhines

kstuart said:


> Setanta shows all the sports for which the viewership is too small to support showing them on an advertising supported channel like FSC or GolTV.
> 
> Also, monthly subscription is by far the better alternative to advertising.
> 
> HBO is $10-$15 per month, but you get to watch programs without interruption, bugs, crawls, without them being shown out of order, without programs being cancelled in the middle of the season.
> 
> The same thing would be fine for sports.
> 
> PS The EPL Talk has the usual blinders on his eyes, i.e. the ability to understand that most people will never be interested in his particular passion. *A Foreign League of any sport will not be popular in the USA, ever.* People in Chicago care about Chicago, not about Manchester.


could not disagree with you more.

first off, the most popular soccer league in the USA is the FMF (mexican league). so that alone blows your 'foreign soccer league theory' out of the water. sadly more people care about chivas guadalajara in any given US city, when compared to the local MLS representative.

secondly, with the expanded coverage of the EPL coupled with the existing SPL coverage, setanta had enough pull to be funded by advertising and content provider fees (directv, dish, cable co's, etc). setanta were fools in thinking that a viewer based subscription model could cover the costs of their current SPL and EPL contracts. viewer based fees can cover niche leagues (AFL, cricket, etc) . . . but the EPL and SPL are very mainstream and very expensive. i mean heck, if the EPL and SPL don't provide setanta the ability to be funded by the content providers, explain to me how FSC and GolTV do it. simple math . . . $3/sports pack subscriber would very likely yield more money than their current US subscription base at $15/viewer. do you really think it would be that hard for setanta to work out a deal for $3 per viewer sports subscriber? i don't.

keep one additional thing in mind, no matter the distribution channel (cable, sat, fiber) they are going to get subscription fees . . . the only question is who pays them (the individual viewer or the company).


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> i mean heck, if the EPL and SPL don't provide setanta the ability to be funded by the content providers, explain to me how FSC and GolTV do it. simple math . . . $3/sports pack subscriber would very likely yield more money than their current US subscription base at $15/viewer. do you really think it would be that hard for setanta to work out a deal for $3 per viewer sports subscriber? i don't.


It may seem like a trivial thing to get in the "sports pack" to you. But from business negotiations standpoint, I think it would be a huge deal. When you say "sports pack", I'm assuming you're referring to the DirecTV model here. I can assure you that DirecTV would be forced to increase the price of sports pack tier from $3, if Setanta were added to it. Maybe not by $15, but still would've been a significant increase. Of course the number of sports pack subscribers is expected to be higher than pure Setanta subscribers. But I doubt the number would be so much higher to magically cover Setanta's costs without raising fees. There is no easy solution to this supply-demand problem and someone is going to come out a loser somewhere. Maybe the consumer by paying high subscription, maybe premium channel like Setanta by going bankrupt, or maybe English Premiership by not having as many eyeballs watching them as they would like. Unless you were thinking that DirecTV [or DISH or Comcast or FiOS...whoever] would somehow subsidize these Setanta costs by bearing them completely, without passing them to the consumer.  Wishful thinking!!! Or how about the new Obama administration to subsidize it by bailing out the likes of Setanta!!!!  OK, I'm intentionally being devious in jest with that comment, so no need to attack it literally.

If you think the likes of FSC and GolTV have got it easy, I present to you a counter-argument as exhibit A: The shabby treatment DISH CEO Charlie Ergen has given to GolTV, kicking them off of DISH altogether. It's not the same "Sports pack" concept there. But the basic concept remains identical. The bottom line is that these channels have to fight tooth and nail to be given representation in whatever tier they wish on each carrier. I'm personally not happy at all about the way GolTV was unceremoniously dumped off of DISH. But that's a separate thread for a separate topic. Don't want to get too off-tangent here.


----------



## dhines

Chandu said:


> It may seem like a trivial thing to get in the "sports pack" to you. But from business negotiations standpoint, I think it would be a huge deal. When you say "sports pack", I'm assuming you're referring to the DirecTV model here. I can assure you that DirecTV would be forced to increase the price of sports pack tier from $3, if Setanta were added to it. Maybe not by $15, but still would've been a significant increase. Of course the number of sports pack subscribers is expected to be higher than pure Setanta subscribers. But I doubt the number would be so much higher to magically cover Setanta's costs without raising fees. There is no easy solution to this supply-demand problem and someone is going to come out a loser somewhere. Maybe the consumer by paying high subscription, maybe premium channel like Setanta by going bankrupt, or maybe English Premiership by not having as many eyeballs watching them as they would like. Unless you were thinking that DirecTV [or DISH or Comcast or FiOS...whoever] would somehow subsidize these Setanta costs by bearing them completely, without passing them to the consumer.  Wishful thinking!!! Or how about the new Obama administration to subsidize it by bailing out the likes of Setanta!!!!  OK, I'm intentionally being devious in jest with that comment, so no need to attack it literally.
> 
> If you think the likes of FSC and GolTV have got it easy, I present to you a counter-argument as exhibit A: The shabby treatment DISH CEO Charlie Ergen has given to GolTV, kicking them off of DISH altogether. It's not the same "Sports pack" concept there. But the basic concept remains identical. The bottom line is that these channels have to fight tooth and nail to be given representation in whatever tier they wish on each carrier. I'm personally not happy at all about the way GolTV was unceremoniously dumped off of DISH. But that's a separate thread for a separate topic. Don't want to get too off-tangent here.


directv adds channels to the sports pack every year . . . so i don't think it is the 'mission impossible' that you are making it out to be. even if this figure was brought down to $2 per sports pack subscriber, setanta would make a huge gain. each year the content providers increase their cost to the consumer, and i think they do this with the anticipation that they will be adding something or their cost per channel costs go up (ESPNU for example).

btw, dish is known for lowballing so it doesn't surprise me to see them toy with golTV. but keep in mind, golTV doesn't have the EPL. the best EPL games were on setanta last year, and that will be the case in the future.

IMO the only thing that stopped setanta from being bundled into the sports packages was its lack of association with other sports channels. most channel additions happen because a group of channels state "add this or . . . ". my thinking is, setanta will be acquired by someone (ESPN?), then they will force the likes of directv, dish, etc to include it into one of their bundles.


----------



## kstuart

dhines said:


> could not disagree with you more.
> 
> first off, the most popular soccer league in the USA is the FMF (mexican league). so that alone blows your 'foreign soccer league theory' out of the water. sadly more people care about chivas guadalajara in any given US city, when compared to the local MLS representative.


I do not want to get political, but those people are only watching a foreign soccer league if they start watching MLS. 

One way to eliminate your example is to simply postulate English language.



> secondly, with the expanded coverage of the EPL coupled with the existing SPL coverage, setanta had enough pull to be funded by advertising and content provider fees (directv, dish, cable co's, etc). setanta were fools in thinking that a viewer based subscription model could cover the costs of their current SPL and EPL contracts. viewer based fees can cover niche leagues (AFL, cricket, etc) . . .


I keep forgetting that one needs to make every point separately in every Forum

*Setanta USA is profitable.*

The only problem is that it has ties to a bankrupt UK operation.


----------



## kstuart

Chandu said:


> The shabby treatment DISH CEO Charlie Ergen has given to GolTV, kicking them off of DISH altogether.


Dish has given GolTV great treatment.

When GolTV was struggling, Dish agreed to carry them, which was instrumental to GolTV's success.

No one knows details, but I'm pretty sure that if GolTV was willing to agreed to an extension of their existing contract, they would still be on Dish.


----------



## Chandu

kstuart said:


> Dish has given GolTV great treatment.
> ....
> No one knows details,....




Yes, I know you're trying your best acting your role as official DISH defender.

When every other carrier DirecTV, Comcast, Time Warner, FiOS .... have had no issues renewing DISH contracts, I can draw my own conclusions who has given what kind of treatment to whom pretty easily.

Getting back on topic:



kstuart said:


> *Setanta USA is profitable.*
> 
> The only problem is that it has ties to a bankrupt UK operation.


Again, .

Because you sure seem to post as if you've full knowledge of the internal details; when in fact things are far from known. Or in fact, the exactly opposite is being reported now, and I'm hardly surprised to hear that.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=42754-qqqx=1.asp



> The main event has collapsed under a mountain of debt, and Michael O'Rourke and Leonard Ryan are this weekend frantically scrambling to rescue the undercard.
> 
> The two founders of Setanta are locked in negotiations with their lenders, bond holders and advisers, as they struggle to mount a rescue bid for the broadcaster's Irish and international operations. A source close to the company indicated that their effort to save those operations looked to be in trouble, and the situation was ''not looking good''.


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> even if this figure was brought down to $2 per sports pack subscriber, setanta would make a huge gain.


I strongly disagree, and not because I doubt the increase in number of subscribers Setanta would've gained this way. But considering the amount of money Setanta USA committed to Fox, to believe such increase in subscriber base could overcome a huge ($15 - $2 = $13) difference is absurd in my mind.


----------



## dhines

kstuart said:


> I do not want to get political, but those people are only watching a foreign soccer league if they start watching MLS.
> 
> One way to eliminate your example is to simply postulate English language.


quite honestly, i don't get your point. rather than wasting time trying to be cute, why don't you just come out and say what you are thinking?



kstuart said:


> I keep forgetting that one needs to make every point separately in every Forum
> 
> *Setanta USA is profitable.*
> 
> The only problem is that it has ties to a bankrupt UK operation.


so profitable that setanta US can't afford to upgrade to HD? new definition of profitable i guess.


----------



## dhines

Chandu said:


> I strongly disagree, and not because I doubt the increase in number of subscribers Setanta would've gained this way. But considering the amount of money Setanta USA committed to Fox, to believe such increase in subscriber base could overcome a huge ($15 - $2 = $13) difference is absurd in my mind.


i am looking at it from a mathmatical perspective. i have heard that as few as 50k people in the US subscribe to setanta. i would think that is low, but to be more conservative i will overestimate at 250k US setanta subscribers.

250,000 * $15 = 3.75M

how many sports pack subscribers are there (comcast, dtv, dish, etc)? i have no idea but i would think that number has to be at least 3M

3M * $2 = 6M

i don't see that the contract with Fox has anything to do with this analysis . . . as that contract is independent of subscriber fees. bottom line, if it was more beneficial for channels to be ala cart, so many channels wouldn't pursue bundling into packages. off the top of my head i can only think of niche channels that attain their fees directly from the consumer. and for niche channels, i think that works . . . but the EPL is not a niche league, the signing of the EPL contract necissitated a changing in how setanta funded its operations. IMO, this inconsistency is one of the biggest reasons for its downfall.


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> btw, dish is known for lowballing so it doesn't surprise me to see them toy with golTV. but keep in mind, golTV doesn't have the EPL. the best EPL games were on setanta last year, and that will be the case in the future.


You're the one who had included "FSC and GolTV" in your earlier post. So I had to give you a counter-example for GolTV, how it can be difficult for a niche channel to "demand" being in whatever tier with various carriers.



dhines said:


> i am looking at it from a mathmatical perspective. i have heard that as few as 50k people in the US subscribe to setanta. i would think that is low, but to be more conservative i will overestimate at 250k US setanta subscribers.
> 
> 250,000 * $15 = 3.75M
> 
> how many sports pack subscribers are there (comcast, dtv, dish, etc)? i have no idea but i would think that number has to be at least 3M
> 
> 3M * $2 = 6M


You could very well be pulling those subscriber numbers out of the hat, I don't know. Even if your numbers were in the ballpark, there is a point you're missing. If addition of more and more of channels like Setanta to sports pack (or other equivalent tiers) kept raising fees for those tiers, what makes you think the number fo subscribers for them wouldn't go down? You have to consider that there have to be some people who just don't care about content on Setanta. If this was imposed as an additional channel upon them in that tier with increased fee, they may just drop the tier altogether.

Why do you think negotiations between carriers and content providers get contentious many times, over whether adding a certain channel to certain tier would increase in subscriber fees for that tier? (That was my original point, but you discounted it.)

Of course, if given a choice Setanta would've wanted to be included in tiers like these. But they haven't been in a position of strength to get whatever they want. They weren't in that position during their so called period of financial strength, even before they ended up in these dire straits. In the situation they're in now? Forget about it!!



> i don't see that the contract with Fox has anything to do with this analysis . . . as that contract is independent of subscriber fees.




OK, now you clearly lost me. No contracts are independent of subscriber fees. Are you sure you understand how these legal dealings work? Subscriber fees are clearly spelled out in the contracts. Are you suggesting Setanta USA could arbitrarily increase subscriber fee to say $20 with DirecTV and still expect DirecTV to honor their contract commitment to whatever time duration? (1 year, 2 years whatever it is their executives/lawyers signed on).

Remember, finally it is the bottom line we're talking about, the profit. Lack of profitability was what was Setanta's downfall in UK. How can you say that the "contract with Fox" doesn't have anything to do with this analysis? For Setanta USA, that is the biggest cost - the amount of money they committed to Fox International to be able to show those select matches. That cost has a huge bearing on their bottom line. You can't talk about multiplication of subscriber fee with subscriber number as an isolated mathematical game, while expecting all other variables to remain constant. Such as whether they could achieve such contracts in the first place, and if they did whether worth it for net bottom line depending on their commitment to Fox International.



> bottom line, if it was more beneficial for channels to be ala cart, so many channels wouldn't pursue bundling into packages. off the top of my head i can only think of niche channels that attain their fees directly from the consumer. and for niche channels, i think that works . . .
> 
> but the EPL is not a niche league, the signing of the EPL contract necissitated a changing in how setanta funded its operations. IMO, this inconsistency is one of the biggest reasons for its downfall.


What? Are you seriously claiming EPL is not a niche league in USA? (Remember, it's the US market and viewers we're talking about here. EPL is not a niche league in UK and some other parts of the world, e.g. Thailand, Hong Kong. The biggest reason for their downfall was bad estimations in markets where EPL is not niche league, mainly UK. But that's not the point of your statement, at least I don't think it is.) In USA, only leagues which aren't niche that I know of are NFL, NBA, MLB, high profile NCAA divisions like Big 10, Pac 10, SEC etc. Maybe NHL as well. Mid-tier American sports leagues such as Arena football are niche. By my definition all of MLS, La Liga, English Premiership, all of them are niche. What is your definition of "niche"?


----------



## dhines

Chandu said:


> You're the one who had included "FSC and GolTV" in your earlier post. So I had to give you a counter-example for GolTV, how it can be difficult for a niche channel to "demand" being in whatever tier with various carriers.
> 
> You could very well be pulling those subscriber numbers out of the hat, I don't know. Even if your numbers were in the ballpark, there is a point you're missing. If addition of more and more of channels like Setanta to sports pack (or other equivalent tiers) kept raising fees for those tiers, what makes you think the number fo subscribers for them wouldn't go down? You have to consider that there have to be some people who just don't care about content on Setanta. If this was imposed as an additional channel upon them in that tier with increased fee, they may just drop the tier altogether.
> 
> Why do you think negotiations between carriers and content providers get contentious many times, over whether adding a certain channel to certain tier would increase in subscriber fees for that tier? (That was my original point, but you discounted it.)
> 
> Of course, if given a choice Setanta would've wanted to be included in tiers like these. But they haven't been in a position of strength to get whatever they want. They weren't in that position during their so called period of financial strength, even before they ended up in these dire straits. In the situation they're in now? Forget about it!!
> 
> 
> 
> OK, now you clearly lost me. No contracts are independent of subscriber fees. Are you sure you understand how these legal dealings work? Subscriber fees are clearly spelled out in the contracts. Are you suggesting Setanta USA could arbitrarily increase subscriber fee to say $20 with DirecTV and still expect DirecTV to honor their contract commitment to whatever time duration? (1 year, 2 years whatever it is their executives/lawyers signed on).
> 
> Remember, finally it is the bottom line we're talking about, the profit. Lack of profitability was what was Setanta's downfall in UK. How can you say that the "contract with Fox" doesn't have anything to do with this analysis? For Setanta USA, that is the biggest cost - the amount of money they committed to Fox International to be able to show those select matches. That cost has a huge bearing on their bottom line. You can't talk about multiplication of subscriber fee with subscriber number as an isolated mathematical game, while expecting all other variables to remain constant. Such as whether they could achieve such contracts in the first place, and if they did whether worth it for net bottom line depending on their commitment to Fox International.
> 
> What? Are you seriously claiming EPL is not a niche league in USA? (Remember, it's the US market and viewers we're talking about here. EPL is not a niche league in UK and some other parts of the world, e.g. Thailand, Hong Kong. The biggest reason for their downfall was bad estimations in markets where EPL is not niche league, mainly UK. But that's not the point of your statement, at least I don't think it is.) In USA, only leagues which aren't niche that I know of are NFL, NBA, MLB, high profile NCAA divisions like Big 10, Pac 10, SEC etc. Maybe NHL as well. Mid-tier American sports leagues such as Arena football are niche. By my definition all of MLS, La Liga, English Premiership, all of them are niche. What is your definition of "niche"?


alot to respond to, but i will try to keep it brief:

my analysis was specific to their revenue streams . . . not their expenses. i think setanta is foolish in how they manage their revenues and i will stand by my statement in saying revenue analysis is completely different and seperate from expense analysis. it is my opinion that the collapse of setanta is purely related to their lack of vision in how to strengthen their revenue streams. the proof in this will be setanta USA's acquisition by some other company and their ability to turn it into a huge cash cow.

some may say that setanta was already in the black, and that is true. but there is a big difference between being in the black and making stacks of cash. i will say it again that IMO their current model on revenues is based on very nitche leagues like ruby, AFL, etc. I don't agree that the EPL is niche, as it is the main viewing choice of of american soccer fans. it is my opinion that some of the 3rd party analysis supports my position as they state "the current subscriber base is roughly half what it needs to be in order to make the company profitable"

btw, how can the most popular soccer league be niche without the sport itself being niche? if you want to say that soccer is a niche market, fine. but then i would say things like rugby, AFL, etc are super super niche. with that in mind, i would say that the current revenue structure is fine for 'super niche' items, but not niche.

either way, it is obvious that you and i see things completely differently and it doesn't make sense for us to continue to bang our heads against a wall. i will respectfully disagree and hold my tongue from further comment on this subject (as i think the thread has derailed from the initial topic).

========================

btw, have you heard anything new on setanta USA? i haven't . . .


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> if you want to say that soccer is a niche market, fine. but then i would say things like rugby, AFL, etc are super super niche.


Yes, that's what I think.



> btw, have you heard anything new on setanta USA? i haven't . . .


New as in, since the link in my earlier post which mentions that Setanta was trying frantically over the weekend to find buyers for Setanta International? No, not yet. Will have to keep waiting.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2144158#post2144158

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=42754-qqqx=1.asp


----------



## dhines

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=42754-qqqx=1.asp


> According to company filings, Setanta is available in 30 million homes in the US. At the end of 2007, it held rights for the English Premier League, FA Cup, Champions League, Six Nations rugby, the Tri-Nations, Guinness Premiership rugby in England and the Heineken European Cup.
> 
> A number of these rights, including the Premier League, have been forfeited, but the company hopes to retain the rights to a number of the events. The same situation applies to Setanta in Canada. The company launched a residential channel there in September 2007 in partnership with Rogers Cable, a major Canadian cable company.


huh? everything we have heard up until now was the EPL rights for setanta US are not impacted by the loss of setanta UK's EPL rights.

what gives?

if this is true, might as well throw setanta US in the crapper.


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> huh? everything we have heard up until now was the EPL rights for setanta US are not impacted by the loss of setanta UK's EPL rights.
> 
> what gives?
> 
> if this is true, might as well throw setanta US in the crapper.


Those rights are not impacted only for 1 last season 2009-2010. Future rights haven't been bought by anybody yet, they will come up for auction later in fall of this year.

The way I would interpret the statement "the rights have been forfeited" is that future of Setanta International itself unclear; they're frantically shopping around trying to find takers, and naturally have forfeited any interest in future rights auction.

Unless I'm misreading this whole thing, and that due to financial problems Setanta International itself has been forced to forfeit existing rights in order to liquidate assets???  If that's what it is, it would be huge news; let me go read and re-read every single word of that article very carefully.

EDIT: OK, I must have read that article 4 times, and still find the statement that EPL rights in USA have been forfeited to be somewhat ambiguous. I can interpret it both ways as I said above. Some more relevant paragraphs from it.



> The company's international operations are more difficult to assess. The firm's US sports channel has a distribution agreement with the DirecTV Network while, in August 2007, Setanta also secured a distribution deal for its sports channel on the DISH network.
> 
> Accounts for Setanta Sports North America state that it had revenues of $15 million in 2007, but posted an operating loss of $13.8 million, leaving it with retained losses of $24million.
> 
> With most of its rights deals, Setanta agreed to pay instalments, rather than a lump sum up front. O'Rourke and Ryan - or any buyer of the remaining businesses - will therefore have some breathing space to raise money to pay the rights as they fall due.


And specifically about the fate of Setanta USA:



> O'Rourke and Ryan now have until Tuesday afternoon to lodge a proposal for the Irish and international divisions with Setanta's secured lenders, who effectively control the destiny of the parts of the business which continue to trade.
> 
> The two founders are working with former Setanta executive Mark O'Meara in their bid for their international unit.


As later articles from my post below (today's news) tell, the Ireland part seems to have been figured out today, i.e. Tuesday. But no conclusion on the Setanta International yet. It probably means the deadline for Setanta founders for lodging proposal for Setanta International elpased??? More clarity is needed on this, I'm guessing we will know better in next 2 days.


----------



## Chandu

While I'm figuring out previous post, here are latest news only pertaining to Setanta Ireland hot off the press:

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/setanta-ireland-buyout-deal-agreed-1797260.html

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/setanta-future-finalised-1797977.html



> Irish sports broadcaster Setanta's future footing is expected to be finalised today.
> 
> The group's founders and MCD boss Denis Desmond are believed to be in a position to take full control of the Irish business after agreeing a buyout with original investors, including Doughty Hanson and Goldman Sachs.


As far as what pertains to Setanta USA:



> Mr Ryan, Mr O'Rourke and Mr Desmond have also been in separate negotiations with the lenders behind the €220m secured debt, who have a call on the Irish and international assets that have emerged from the debris of Setanta's collapse.


So, nothing is resolved yet and negotiations continue.


----------



## Chihuahua

Here's an interesting tidbit.


----------



## Chandu

Chihuahua said:


> Here's an interesting tidbit.


Thanks for that, that sounds like a big setback for Setanta. The earlier reports indicated Setanta Ireland seemed to have their thing together, with possible successful proposal by original founders. Life seems to be throttled out of Setanta slowly but surely. It could only be a matter of time before Setanta USA chokes.

If I go to following location on Setanta Ireland website, information there is factually incorrect. In light of today/yesterday's news, an outright lie. Looks like Setanta hasn't even bothered updating their website as the walls of the house continue to collapse around them.

http://www.setanta.com/global/ie.html



> What is now available on Setanta Sports in ROI?
> 
> We are working with various sporting organisations to bring the best of the sporting action to the package. In the meantime we will continue to show top live action *including Barclays Premier League*,...


Lie, lie!!!!!


----------



## dhines

seems like this thread has gone dead . . . anyone have any scoops?


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> seems like this thread has gone dead . . . anyone have any scoops?


Haven't seen any news specifically about Setanta USA or Setanta Canada. But there was this confusing and conflicting news about Setanta Ireland, that they've re-acquired some EPL rights they had lost.  Not sure where they found the money for it, and why they had lost those rights intermittently to ESPN in the first place. Things may stay put for Setanta USA for 1 more season.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0715/setanta1.html



> Setanta Sports has announced that it has won the rights to broadcast 33 English premiership games in the Republic of Ireland next season.


How does this equate with the earlier news, I'm thoroughly confused.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hoqb8KOwvQBaCBIHp82kSmDZo42gD99A7H380



> ESPN has acquired the rights to televise Premier League soccer in Ireland.
> 
> The broadcaster, owned by The Walt Disney Co., will show the 46 matches next season that were previously held by Setanta Sports.


----------



## vansmack

dhines said:


> seems like this thread has gone dead . . . anyone have any scoops?


There was too much wanton speculation in this thread to keep following it.

I'm glad to see that Chandu is finally coming around to even acknowledging the fact that Setanta USA might be broadcasting Premier League games for one more season...

And no - there has been no new news on the US side of things. The UK-Ireland side, however, has completely fallen apart for Setanta.


----------



## dhines

vansmack said:


> There was too much wanton speculation in this thread to keep following it.
> 
> I'm glad to see that Chandu is finally coming around to even acknowledging the fact that Setanta USA might be broadcasting Premier League games for one more season...
> 
> And no - there has been no new news on the US side of things. The UK-Ireland side, however, has completely fallen apart for Setanta.


guess the truth will be known in about 1.5 months, yes?


----------



## Chandu

dhines said:


> guess the truth will be known in about 1.5 months, yes?


http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0728/setanta.html



> Denis Desmond's Gaiety Investments has increased its stake in Setanta Sports Channel Ireland Limited from 20% to 60%, with the remaining 40% owned by Sabloss, a new company whose shareholders include Setanta founders Michael O'Rourke and Leonard Ryan, as well as Mark O'Meara.
> 
> *Sabloss has also bought 100% of the shares in Setanta Sports North America Limited.* Both companies hold satellite and cable content contracts with the BCI.


So what does this mean? Setanta USA will not die very soon?


----------



## Mariah2014

Setanta no longer has AFL Premiership rights. This must have just happened. The online schedule on Setanta.com already shows this.


----------



## Chandu

mshaw2715 said:


> Setanta no longer has AFL Premiership rights. This must have just happened. The online schedule on Setanta.com already shows this.


I see Geelong vs Adelaide and West Coast vs Essendon reruns listed from last week. But seriously, nothing for upcoming week. Is this really true?!?! 

http://www.afana.com/drupal5/news/2009/07/30/statement_future_afl_tv_coverage_north_america-1553



> Schedules for AFL coverage have appeared on ESPN360 (ESPN's broadband service) beginning with Round 19 this coming weekend. According to Setanta, they no longer have a contract to carry the sport and the last listed coverage on their networks is tomorrow. MHz Network's General Manager stated Monday via e-mail that they will continue for another two seasons and we have verbal indication from America One that they intend to continue, also. We do not have further confirmed information as to the future of satellite or cable coverage, either live, delayed, or highlights at this time.


If indeed true, that's a huge blow for Australian Football fans here, and to Setanta USA as well. Not everyone is fully caught up with ESPN360 or MHz Network Worldview. For such fans, an obvious reason to drop Setanta subscription. Slowly but surely, the channel starts losing its value. Maybe one by one, other rights will start getting dropped, like Rugby Union.

I'm fully convinced now - When they talk about Setanta North America revenues, the Setanta USA subscription channel figures only a small fraction in it. The big bulk comes from Setanta Premium closed-circuit pub channel in which they charge gullible people an arm and leg to enter a pub showing their events. I still wouldn't be shocked if this Setanta USA channel folds soon. Or becomes a bare-bones entity only showing English Premiership matches involving ManUtd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea; and nothing else.


----------



## Mariah2014

http://www.afana.com/drupal5/news/2009/08/03/tv_coverage_returns_espn-1555
TV Coverage Returns to ESPN and TSN
by admincms - Mon, 2009-08-03 14:57 - Last Updated: Thu, 2009-08-06 08:22
Australian Football League NewsEditorialTV InfoESPN2ESPN360TSNMHz NetworksAmerica OneAussie Sport TVBroadbandGillon McLachlan

Begins with Round 19 for USA and Canada

For the first time since 1997, the Australian Football League will be on an ESPN network in North America. Following the demise of the sport on Setanta, the AFL has struck a deal for live coverage on ESPN360 of 3 matches per round now and beginning in 2010, at least four matches per season on ESPN2. Canadian fans will get one match per week (delayed) on TSN and repeats on TSN2.

AFANA worked closely with the AFL and the networks to support this unprecedented mid-season change. Coverage of the Grand Final will be on ESPN2 through 2011 and we are informed it will be live. Given ESPN's baseball contracts, we remain concerned about this. We do not know what the Grand Final situation on TSN will be for Canada. Unlike Setanta, this coverage will not require a subscription fee from fans. ESPN2 is in over 80% of US homes but aside from the Grand Final it will not have coverage until next season. ESPN360 is the "broadband" channel of ESPN and delivered by computer and it will carry matches live. This service may prove superior for some fans to the existing service on Aussie Sport TV (the Telstra/Big Pond/afl.com.au service by another name). Please note: ESPN360 will not cover all 8 AFL matches each week so you will still need to subscribe to Aussie Sport TV if you wish to get every match on a delayed basis. For those fans without ESPN360, coverage will be limited unless they have MHz Worldview or America One.

As AFANA gets more details, we will post that information on our TV Info and TV schedules pages. AFANA will be revising our TV schedules page as soon as possible with new schedules from ESPN, and TSN, as well as MHz and America One. For the first week or two, there may be some lag time as AFANA, the AFL, ESPN, and TSN work out the schedule logistics. Those pages will be revised to reflect this new coverage so please be patient while we "catch up". As always, AFANA will remain your one stop location to get all AFL TV coverage information and schedules for the USA and Canada.

Delayed free to air coverage of one match per week will continue by MHz Networks and America One. Together, MHz Networks and America One reach over half of the TV markets in North America. (See our TV Info for details on MHz and America One and to find out if your city or town has this free coverage.) MHz has agreed to continue as an AFL broadcaster through the 2011 season. They will carry the Grand Final on a 48 hour delayed basis.

Fans who watch coverage on ESPN360 may wish to register for an account at the ESPN web site in order to take full advantage of the coverage. You will also need to insure your browser and computer can support the service. To determine if your computer works with ESPN360 go to: ESPN360 System Requirements. There are also links there to install the "Move Player" add-in required for most browsers.

AFANA Interim Chairman Kimber Smith will have a statement later today or tomorrow.

The press release from the AFL states:

"ESPN and the Australian Football League (AFL) have reached a multiyear rights deal for live multi-platform coverage in the United States and Canada. The agreement brings fans in the U.S. and Canada access to up to three live matches in each round of the home and away season for the remainder of this season and through the end of 2011. It also includes a number of Finals Series matches, including the 2009 Toyota AFL Grand Final from the Melbourne Cricket Ground in September.

In the United States, matches will be streamed live on ESPN360.com, ESPN's signature live sports broadband network, as well as select AFL matches - including the Grand Final - being televised on ESPN2. In Canada, TSN or TSN2 will televise at least one live or delayed match per week.

The AFL's agreement with ESPN in the U.S. and Canada follows last week's confirmation that the league had secured ESPN as its broadcast rights partner in the UK and Ireland. ESPN also delivers the AFL to Sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean region.

AFL Chief Operating Officer Gillon McLachlan said, "We are extremely pleased that ESPN will be working with us in the United States and Canada. They are a global leader in multimedia sports entertainment and the collaboration will ensure our expanding supporter base in the U.S. and Canada enjoy the highest standards in live AFL broadcast coverage going forward.

McLachlan also said the shift towards digital media coverage reflected the growing demand from sports consumers around the globe for live online content: "ESPN360.com has quickly become an online destination of choice for American sports fans and we are delighted that AFL will have a strong presence on the platform."

Added Tim Bunnell, senior vice president of programming, ESPN International, "AFL presents a great opportunity for us as a company and is in line with our commitment to covering the world sports scene through our media platforms. The AFL and ESPN have a long relationship, stretching back to the early years of our company. We look forward to bringing the excitement and passion of Australian football back to fans in North America."

Coverage will begin Friday, August 7 live in the U.S. and on delay Saturday, August 8 in Canada, with the Round 19 clash between finals aspirants Carlton and Geelong from the MCG.

ESPN - AFL United States and Canada Rights Deal Coverage Summary

United States 
• Live streaming coverage of three matches per round and finals matches on ESPN360.com. 
• At least four matches per regular season in 2010 and 2011 and both Grand Finals live.
• Live coverage of the 2009 Grand Final on ESPN2.

Canada
• At least one match per week live or delayed on TSN or TSN2."

(Disclaimer: AFANA is paid a commission on all subscriptions to Aussie Sport TV made through our links. )


----------



## Mariah2014

Basically, this proves that when ESPN gained rights in UK that signed the agreement that affected the US as well.


----------



## Chandu

So let me try to step back and make sense of few international sport programming changes in USA which have happened very rapidly.

Dutch league football returns to ESPN family (on ESPN Deportes where it used to be 3 years ago). It was on Setanta USA for couple of years, but was completely dropped last season.

La Liga returns to ESPN family (mostly on ESPN Deportes, some on ESPN2 - it used to be on ESPN family in very poor tape delayed scattered mode some 10+ years ago). It had never been on Setanta USA.

For the first time ever, Bundesliga will be shown on ESPN family (mostly on ESPN Deportes and also espn360.com). It had never been on Setanta USA. Few German League Cup matches had been on Setanta USA before, but that's not the same thing.

Australian Football returns to ESPN family after a long absence of some 20+ years (back when ESPN2, let alone espn360.com didn't even exist). This had been marquee inventory for Setanta USA which they've been forced to give up.

ESPN family have given up on UEFA Champions League which has been picked up by FSC. For now it looks like whatever rights Setanta USA paid for Champions League will remain intact for upcoming season.

About 10+ years ago ESPN family used to show some English Premiership matches on ESPN2 in a very scattered, tape delayed manner. There is no chance of this league returning to ESPN family for upcoming season.

Looks like French Ligue 1 will be kicked off of Setanta USA now. Maybe the tape delayed Scottish Premiership will be kicked off too? And what about the other bits and pieces such as English Coca Cola Championship, coverage of various promotion or relegation matches, coverage of English League Cup matches?? I'm sure I'm forgetting something else.

Also, it isn't clear what is the future of Rugby Union and Rugby League on Setanta USA? I wouldn't be surprised if it all vanished and some of these things end up on espn360.com.

Will espn360.com become the de-facto destination for international sports coverage in USA?


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## Mariah2014

The short anwser is yes. Anything else would be limited. What would be made available would be tape delayed and possibly cut down.


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## Andy_B

Chandu said:


> About 10+ years ago ESPN family used to show some English Premiership matches on ESPN2 in a very scattered, tape delayed manner. There is no chance of this league returning to ESPN family for upcoming season.


Looks like ESPN2 will be showing 2 EPL games live every week

"ESPN has acquired the TV rights to two of the weekly Premier League slots on US television for the 2009-2010 season. Beginning on August 15, 2009, each week ESPN will feature the 7:45am ET Saturday game and the 3pm ET Monday game."

epltalk.com/espn-adds-premier-league-to-soccer-line-up/9899/


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## jam131

i can't even get espn360 cuz i'm not on the right network they need to get into agreement with other internet provider so more people can be expose to it


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## Mariah2014

Both items were apperently under agreements that were lost when the parent folded. Those games were in Setanta's schedule and then disapeared at the same time the AFL games did.


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## Chandu

Andy_B said:


> Looks like ESPN2 will be showing 2 EPL games live every week
> 
> "ESPN has acquired the TV rights to two of the weekly Premier League slots on US television for the 2009-2010 season. Beginning on August 15, 2009, each week ESPN will feature the 7:45am ET Saturday game and the 3pm ET Monday game."
> 
> epltalk.com/espn-adds-premier-league-to-soccer-line-up/9899/


No kidding, that's the first time I've heard it. (Considering that blog story has timestamp of yesterday.) It says this hasn't been officially announced by Disney/ESPN. Let me go check around more to see if the story has more legs.

Also if true, this justifiably aggressive move by Disney/ESPN should finally sound the death knell for Setanta USA. How can their subscription fee make sense anymore with more and more losses of marquee inventory? The question is: Why are they choosing to die a slow, painful death like this, instead of just deciding to die suddenly, going away?


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## MadMac

Anyone else watching WBA/Newcastle? Picture quality looks absolutely atrocious here.


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## adkinsjm

Setanta U.S. did have Bundesliga before GOL TV picked it up.


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## adkinsjm

mshaw2715 said:


> Basically, this proves that when ESPN gained rights in UK that signed the agreement that affected the US as well.


Setanta will show the EPL still, at least in the U.S. Rights agreements are complicated and we likely don't know the fine details in each one made.


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## Mariah2014

It also meens that FSC didn't want to air games in the US that had been purduced by espn in the first place. FSC has the rights to the EPL in this country.


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## Chandu

So the news is that just like AFL, Setanta were forced to dump all Rugby League rights too - mainly the NRL from Australia. And predictably, espn360.com has picked them all up on the cheap.

Same this is expected with Rugby Union rights as well - Super 14, Tri Nations etc. Considering that ESPN already bought scrum.com last year, this is hardly surprising. As an aside, ESPN owns soccernet.com, f1-live.com and cricinfo.com as well. But apart from tons of soccer, no cricket or Formula-1 on espn360.com yet.

Anyhow, since Friday espn360.com has now become my favourite destination. I'm literally drooling in international sport heaven. :joy:

Goodbye Setanta!!!


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## dhines

can someone confirm what will be on setanta this season (09 - 10). i read above bundasliga on espn, yet i see it on setanta. furthermore, setanta seems to still have EPL

in short, how much has really changed (with regard to soccer)? as far as i see nothing . . . if i am wrong please correct me.

thank,


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## dhines

looks like something major is developing with setanta

http://www.epltalk.com/breaking-fox-sports-international-in-talks-to-acquire-setanta-sports/14489

seems like the EPL won't be on setanta much longer, and if that is the case i think they are about to lose a big part of their subscriber base.


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## Chandu

dhines said:


> looks like something major is developing with setanta
> 
> http://www.epltalk.com/breaking-fox-sports-international-in-talks-to-acquire-setanta-sports/14489
> 
> seems like the EPL won't be on setanta much longer, and if that is the case i think they are about to lose a big part of their subscriber base.


Indeed, so it really looks like Setanta will die very soon after all.


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## DCSholtis

Chandu said:


> Indeed, so it really looks like Setanta will die very soon after all.


Per John Ourand on Twitter:



> Rumors Fox bought Setanta's U.S. operations? Not true. But Setanta Sports won't sublicense Fox's EPL games starting 3/1/10.


Also as I put in another thread also per John Ourand's Twitter (John writes for Sports Business Journal):



> It's official. Fox will create Fox Soccer+, a premium net w EPL. Some MSOs may charge premium fee. Others put it on a tier.


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## Chandu

Fox Soccer 1, Setanta Nil

FSC's Plus Offering Could Mean Game's Over For Premium Net

[February 28 is] also the date one executive at a Setanta affiliate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the distributor indicated would be the service's "last day."


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## Chandu

It's over!!

http://www.setanta.com/us/Customer-Info-Articles/SETANTA-SPORTS-USA-AGREES-TO-TERMS-WITH-FOX-SOCCER-CHANNEL/gnid-59836/



> 27 January 2010
> 
> SELECT PROGRAMMING RIGHTS TO BE TRANSFERRED
> 
> New York, NY, January 27th, 2010 - Setanta Sports has today announced that it has reached an agreement with Fox Soccer Channel to transfer select programming rights, including many premium soccer and rugby events. Fox Soccer Channel will acquire these rights effective March 1, 2010.
> 
> Setanta Sports also announced that it will cease broadcasting its channel in the United States and the Caribbean on February 28th 2010.
> 
> For the remainder of January and throughout February, Setanta will continue to broadcast normally and will feature its usual line up of top games from the Barclays Premier League, FA Cup, UEFA Champions League, Heineken Cup, Magners League and Guinness Premiership.
> 
> Commenting on the transaction, Leonard Ryan, Co-Founder of Setanta Sports said "This is a significant milestone in the re-organisation of Setanta Sports, following the acquisition of Setanta's businesses in Ireland, the US, Canada and Australia in July 2009. Having examined several options for our US business, we concluded that the best course of action for the Group is to exit the US market and to concentrate on other markets where we can be a more substantial player in sports television. This transaction enables us to achieve that objective and to explore new opportunities in other markets."
> 
> Since acquiring the non UK businesses of the Setanta Group in July 2009, several key goals aimed at re-building Setanta into a strong player in the worldwide sports broadcasting business have been achieved, including;
> 
> · Re-financing Setanta Ireland in July 2009, followed by renewal of key rights properties such as the Barclays Premier League, FA Cup and UEFA Champions League. This business remains profitable and in a strong position in the Irish sports television market
> 
> · Continuing growth of Setanta's business in Canada, which is now at an all time high level of subscribers and delivers significant profitability
> 
> · Continuing growth in Setanta's business in Australia, which has a strong rights portfolio, extensive distribution and is well placed to continue on its impressive growth trajectory
> 
> · The launch of Setanta Bet, which goes live next week, representing Setanta's entry into the online sports gaming market
> 
> Setanta's operations in Canada are not affected in any way by this transaction and will continue to operate under the joint ownership of the Setanta Group and Rogers Communications.


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