# What I know about L216...



## Rodsman (Jan 29, 2005)

Nothing, because upon my return home tonight and right after it downloaded the new s/w, I received the wonderful "your hard drive has failed" message.  I have not seen as many of the problems as some of you have with my 921, but I would say I just made up for that! The DISH CR took all the info. (it doesn't work, it doesn't work, no really, it doesn't work) and is passing it along, whatever that means. Depending on how it's handled and based on what I've read here, it will either work out with a new unit or be the worst experience of my life.

At least I can watch my 508 which has never given me one day of problems which also makes me wonder why o why did I have to go HDTV :nono2: At least that choice was mine to make...


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## Spanky (Feb 4, 2005)

My hard drive failed over the 4th of July weekend.

Called tech support & they said they would e-mail the HD tech support group for followup.

I was suprised, the HD tech support group got back to me within 6 hrs. It did take another 5 days to get a replacement receiver though. Actually not too bad since the 4th of July was on of the days.

There's another thread going on right now about a hard drive failing - three of us in a couple of weeks?


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

216 is a total disaster fo me. I lost every OTA channel that I briefly had guide data for under 215. Only subchannels and PBS channels (which had no guide data due to the fact that PBS stations broadcast a different program on their HD channel than they do on their analog channel (the analog channel is the only one that has LIL guide data available). For the 2 PBS stations inmy market one puts the "analog" programming on subchannel -02, the other does not even bother to carry the analog channel on any subchannel.


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## TonyB (Jul 5, 2004)

216 is a disaster for me too.

1. with 215 I had -01 subchannel guide data wihout lil's (I had lil's until 215 but then cancelled). Now I get no -01 subchannels.

2. This morning I had guide data - now that is all gone.

3. Until 216 I had good satellite signals. Now the 921 reports that I have a bad sw21 switch - sorry, too coincidental to be true.

4. called tech support, spent an hour on the issue - now I get nothing. the 921 boots, but cannot get any channels, not even local analog OTA - which I could all day until the call to tech support.

E* said that they would give me a free service call (the least they could do) - but wait, they could not come out til 8/15. They call that service!!! what a load of crap. So then I insist on talking to the Retention department. What to they say - they will provide service call in 3 days (funny how E* will only offer something when they are about to lose a customer), plus of course 3 days credit ($12) for loss of service!!!!! 

As I sit here at 10:30pm, Everything is dead - no channels at all. I cannot even pull up the guide. 216 is both a disaster as well as a theft of my property - I paid for OTA HD and E* took away the ability of a receiver that I paid over $1000 for to handle. If by Saturday I still cannot get OTA HD I will be contacting the state attorney general.

I'm mad and angry, and if Mark deletes this posting then it should be clear to all then censorship is alive and well - yes I am angry right now, but who caused it - E*'s drive for more profits.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I'm getting OTA analog, I added one channel after the DT's failed. The analogs that were in my guide before 216 were still there.

If you cannot add analog OTA's you need to go to the menu 4, 2, "more" to get to the semi-hidden menu where you will find "off-air antenna locals", check "enable" under this option and the analogs will appear in the guide.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Someone in another thread had the LIL's turned on. This fixed the problem, however he did not say if they are charging him.

When I called E* Tech Support I got a tech with a heavy Asian accent. I could hardly understand what she was saying. I asked her if she was in Virginia (where the 921 Advanced Technical team is) she was not there, she was in PA, but still an "advanced" tech. I want to talk to the team in VA.

*UPDATE:*
I got a call from somene in the VA Advanced Tech Support 921 team. She turned on the Cleveland locals for free as a temporary fix.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer (Feb 20, 2005)

TonyB said:


> 216 is a disaster for me too.
> 
> 1. with 215 I had -01 subchannel guide data wihout lil's (I had lil's until 215 but then cancelled). Now I get no -01 subchannels.
> 
> ...


I think your receiver didn't take the firmware update properly. That can happen on any electronics where you're upgrading the firmware - computer BIOS, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DBS receivers, home electronics, and etc. Whenever you load a corrupt firmware, it'll totally disable your unit until you take the firmware chip out and reflash it somehow. So in your case, it sounds like a firmware/hardware issue not related specifically to 216 but to a new software release.


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## Sundance (Mar 6, 2004)

I have been a happy camper for the past two weeks. I have had the guide for my OTA locals except for 2 chan. I said to myself, maybe they might get this POS working right after all ....NOT!!! Tonight I turn on the POS and the only locals I have AT ALL are the two that I had no guide info. for.

Comcast is coming Sat. and if their DVR even half A__ works this dish crap is history. :flaiming


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## TonyB (Jul 5, 2004)

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> I think your receiver didn't take the firmware update properly. That can happen on any electronics where you're upgrading the firmware - computer BIOS, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DBS receivers, home electronics, and etc. Whenever you load a corrupt firmware, it'll totally disable your unit until you take the firmware chip out and reflash it somehow. So in your case, it sounds like a firmware/hardware issue not related specifically to 216 but to a new software release.


E* is coming sat. If they check cables, dish etc. and say its the receiver - but out of warranty, then is goodbye to this E* crapola. Either Cable or D* will be in.

Furthermore, even if they fix it and E* does not re-enable my OTA HD within a week then the same course of action will be taken. The 921 is a POS and the E**** team doing the s/w are clearly out of their league. (contrast the results with the 942).


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## rdopso (Jan 26, 2004)

Just foreced a L216 download and after a pull-the-plug reboot everything is OK -- still have all OTA guide data I had before and no problems with any stored settings or programs. So far so good. I have a 921 that was purchased about two months ago through Costco -- I wonder if these newer units have upgraded hardware or something that minimizes problems others are seeing with their older equipment.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> I think your receiver didn't take the firmware update properly. That can happen on any electronics where you're upgrading the firmware - computer BIOS, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DBS receivers, home electronics, and etc. Whenever you load a corrupt firmware, it'll totally disable your unit until you take the firmware chip out and reflash it somehow. So in your case, it sounds like a firmware/hardware issue not related specifically to 216 but to a new software release.


I believe the software updates are written to the hard drive not EEPROM. If data comes in it should be verified by checksum method and stated in menu 6-7 as successfull. Unless the system rebooted while the software was still incomplete or something. There were some satellite problems with 110 during that time not sure if that could cause problems with downloads. Can you go through any of the menus. Also you mentioned something about a bad SW21 switch the 921 is suppose to have both tuners active. I don't know if sw21 can be reset like the bigger switches but if it's not too much trouble disconnect the input/outputs and try again. It need to pass that switch test before you can get the guide.


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## HailScroob (Aug 3, 2004)

rdopso said:


> I have a 921 that was purchased about two months ago through Costco -- I wonder if these newer units have upgraded hardware or something that minimizes problems others are seeing with their older equipment.


We ran that up the flag poll a month or so ago, and found the problems are pretty evenly distributed across the spectrum of 921 hardware. It seems to have more to do with your dish/switch/diplexer setup, OTA market, viewing habits, TV connection, carpet pile, living room window size, relative humidity, Dominos or Pizza Hut, boxers or briefs and whether your fridge is a top freezer or side-by-side&#8230;


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

TonyB said:


> E* is coming sat. If they check cables, dish etc. and say its the receiver - but out of warranty, then is goodbye to this E* crapola. Either Cable or D* will be in.
> 
> Furthermore, even if they fix it and E* does not re-enable my OTA HD within a week then the same course of action will be taken. The 921 is a POS and the E**** team doing the s/w are clearly out of their league. (contrast the results with the 942).


I think the problem may be related to the switch (SW21) you mentioned. 
As far as loosing your local HD channels dish can fix that by enabling locals on their end. But make sure that they don't charge you because it's their software that's causing the loss of OTAs.


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## Rodsman (Jan 29, 2005)

Well,

DISH called back and decided my 921 is really dead. A new one, or refurbished, is on the way. 

While I reallly haven't had that many problems, as I said, except that the box blew up on me, I still can't believe this thing died like that. Way too many bugs and repeated problems.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

jerganf-

I was told by several E* and Eldon people that the way you describbed it is the way it works in the 921. That is, the new downloads are sent to the hard drive first and when complete you reboot to initiate the new load. This past L216 was the first time I had the opportunity to see that process in action as I did get a corrupted download and it did not install but instead repeated the download process. There was an error message to that effect. Once it completed the process with no errors, I rebooted a second time and L216 installed. I'm certain that it was the sporadic 110 bird that caused this first attempt to corrupt in my case. You see, when I saw the signal go on 110 I thought my SW64 was the problem so I did the check switch and then it showed no signal for 110. At that time I checked the forums and saw the thread about the problem. Most likely, I was receiving the download when I did a second check switch at about 8AM. The important point in this is that the corrupted download did not install. I clearly showed I had L215 until I rebooted after the error on the L216 went away.

Also, to prevent what the guy from Summit Retailer said, the 921 contains certain basic OS that would not need updating in ROM. This would be an instruction set to verify an OS download and if that download failed to be perfect (Checksum error) it would initiate the process over again. That the existing OS would remain until the new is ready for install.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Rodsman- Are you still under warranty? I wonder what they do in the case of out of warranty?


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## Rodsman (Jan 29, 2005)

I am still under warranty. I sent a note to Mark and he said if it was out of warranty they would replace it for a nominal fee! But, I still think they should be paying us for all this grief...


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

DonLandis said:


> jerganf-
> 
> I was told by several E* and Eldon people that the way you describbed it is the way it works in the 921. That is, the new downloads are sent to the hard drive first and when complete you reboot to initiate the new load. This past L216 was the first time I had the opportunity to see that process in action as I did get a corrupted download and it did not install but instead repeated the download process. There was an error message to that effect. Once it completed the process with no errors, I rebooted a second time and L216 installed. I'm certain that it was the sporadic 110 bird that caused this first attempt to corrupt in my case. You see, when I saw the signal go on 110 I thought my SW64 was the problem so I did the check switch and then it showed no signal for 110. At that time I checked the forums and saw the thread about the problem. Most likely, I was receiving the download when I did a second check switch at about 8AM. The important point in this is that the corrupted download did not install. I clearly showed I had L215 until I rebooted after the error on the L216 went away.
> 
> Also, to prevent what the guy from Summit Retailer said, the 921 contains certain basic OS that would not need updating in ROM. This would be an instruction set to verify an OS download and if that download failed to be perfect (Checksum error) it would initiate the process over again. That the existing OS would remain until the new is ready for install.


I just rebooted my machine this morning and actually it was my first to see the install happen in action.

Yesterday (actually on Tuesday) menu 6-1 showed L215
But menu 6-7 said "Successful Download" so I knew that L216 was already on my hard drive.
So I didn't want to reboot or even leave it in standby until I check out the responses from this forum first. In your case being that the software was corrupted (possibly from 110 sat problems) it might have said something else in menu 6-7.

Hesitation paid off this time because posts from other non-subscribers loosing their locals in the guide was a tragic situation. I theorized it was due to the local guide remapping because people (non-subs) were loosing the very same stations that they gained info on from 215. 
Even when it was confirmed that enabling locals would fix the problem I knew it would take some time before dish would admit it. Mark's assistance made things go much smoother and dish called me last night and informed me that they're enabling locals.

Now back to this morning. I did the push button reboot it said "installing new software" then it performed another reboot action in about 6 minutes I was running without any problems.

The 921 is different from most receivers because it depends on Linux OS for running its applications which is why it must reboot all the time. If the hard drive dies so does its intelligence.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"I theorized it was due to the local guide remapping because people (non-subs) were loosing the very same stations that they gained info on from 215. 
Even when it was confirmed that enabling locals would fix the problem I knew it would take some time before dish would admit it. Mark's assistance made things go much smoother and dish called me last night and informed me that they're enabling locals."_

A bit more than that. Non-subs lost not only the guide data they gained in L215, they lost the ability to see any PSIP compliant -1 channel, while still being able to see the -2+ channels. This is truly a screwup in the software implementation goal to build a guide data for LIL subs and hide it and PSIP EIT from non LIL subs. Mark claims he tested this as a "non-sub" but it appears his test procedure is flawed since he seems to be the only one who still had tuner function on the -1 channels as a "disconnected LIL sub" It was suggested by another that his procedure was flawed because he loaded L216beta as an LIL sub. I feel this avenue should be investigated in any future test procedures he does. In fact, I stated over a year ago that his beta testing should be done on an isolated receiver and account. If the suggestion as to how his test procedure failed is true then that would have prevented the beta failure.

BTW- interesting that you received a call and got instant satisfaction. I got the ubiquitous e-mail and I responded to it as instructed. I called and they were to return my call but no one did that. I suspect that the individual that posted the confidential phone number triggered a flood of calls that shut them down preventing their timely response to those they had appointments with. What they are doing with this is typical of what would be required if they had to send a different version of the software to each receiver ID manually. Doing that for a few beta testers is not a big deal but for, say 30,000 921 owners is just not practical until their system is redesigned to handle that. Currently, as I understand, the only way is to either send a range of ID numbers or everyone.


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## lpickup (Jul 12, 2005)

L216 is ready and waiting on my hard drive (according to Menu-6-7), but a remote power-off (standby) as well as a push-button (at the unit) power-off failed to install the new S/W. I guess the next steps are a front-panel reset and then a "power cord reset" as you guys call it. Strange.

...Lance Pickup


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Lance- That is correct. The 921 requires a "reboot" to transfer your downloaded new software to an operating version. You can do this two ways. unplug the 921 for 5 minutes. (the best way) or you can hold the standby power button on the 921 in for over 10 seconds and when you release it, it will begin the reboot process. 

Note- It has been said by Eldon engineers that repeated and frequent standby power button reboot practice is rough on the hard drive motor because it jogs the drive power quickly off and on again as you release the button ( a 921 design issue) while the power cord down for 5 minutes allows the drive to spin down to stop and back up wnen plugged back in which is considered a gentler procedure.


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## lpickup (Jul 12, 2005)

DonLandis said:


> Lance- That is correct. The 921 requires a "reboot" to transfer your downloaded new software to an operating version. You can do this two ways. unplug the 921 for 5 minutes. (the best way) or you can hold the standby power button on the 921 in for over 10 seconds and when you release it, it will begin the reboot process.


Yes, I am aware of that. However, every other time, putting the unit in standby has been sufficient. In fact, they tell you to put the unit in standby often just for this reason. This is the first time I recall that I've had to resort to an actual reboot.

Thanks for the tip about "gentler" power cord reset. I will attempt to comply with the advice, however, getting to the power cord in my setup is not very convenient (not a good thing with a box like this that needs a power cord reset frequently!)

Reminds me of a story I was told by a CSR. They had me unplug the unit because it would let "excess built-up electrons from the drive dissipate" :lol:

...Lance


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"In fact, they tell you to put the unit in standby often just for this reason. This is the first time I recall that I've had to resort to an actual reboot."_

I believe that was a build in "feature" to allow the code to reboot the 921 in the early AM in their solution to resolve the memory leaks buildup. However, I do recall L149 self launched when down load completed and at the next standby but, heck that was over a year ago. Since, my upgrades always required the reboot, either the 921 did it in early AM or I had to manually do it. 
Those who are holding out by avoiding reboot will eventually suffer the memory leaks so all of us are destined to take the upgrades sooner or later. 

_"Reminds me of a story I was told by a CSR. They had me unplug the unit because it would let "excess built-up electrons from the drive dissipate" "_

You should have asked... Will a ground wire help? 

Are we having fun yet?


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

lpickup said:


> L216 is ready and waiting on my hard drive (according to Menu-6-7), but a remote power-off (standby) as well as a push-button (at the unit) power-off failed to install the new S/W. I guess the next steps are a front-panel reset and then a "power cord reset" as you guys call it. Strange.
> 
> ...Lance Pickup


Correct the front-panel reset is pressing and holding the power button for 7 seconds. No need to plug the AC plug but that will definately work too.
But *before you reboot * make sure you won't be affected by the 216 bug.


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## lpickup (Jul 12, 2005)

jergenf said:


> Correct the front-panel reset is pressing and holding the power button for 7 seconds. No need to plug the AC plug but that will definately work too.
> But *before you reboot * make sure you won't be affected by the 216 bug.


If you're talking about losing OTA channels, as I described in another thread, our broadcasters here are REALLY dragging their feet on the digital transition (it will be late 2006 at best before we get DTV here).

I don't like have a pending release sitting around because it seems like every time I have one I get the scenario where I get "unauthorized or blocked" messages pop up when timers fire and then timers recording and I'm unable to stop them until I pull the plug. Plus, I am hoping (although I suspect it's for naught) that L216 may get my 921 back on the right day. For a week or two now it's been recording events on the day before it's supposed to! Someone suggested deleting all my timers and re-creating, but that will be a major pain-in-the-:eek2:, espcially now in the summer when TV schedules are in flux.

...Lance


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

DonLandis said:


> I believe that was a build in "feature" to allow the code to reboot the 921 in the early AM in their solution to resolve the memory leaks buildup.


I've also heard rumors that the 921 reboots itself in the middle on the night that's why I leave mine on 24/7. I like to have some control when these updates are sent.

Some more info about L216 situation. If you see channel format like XXX-0X then PSIP is working. One of the main problems L216 was suppose to solve is to not allow non-subscribers to see the dishnetwork guide info for their free locals. They just did too good of a job because you can't even get those channel mapped to the guide anymore. Not sure why the beta testing didn't reveal the bug, but I'm a programmer myself and I know there's always a situation that you never thought of.

Personally I wish they would allow a feature to both allow and reject a software release. That way we can all become beta testers and re-install the previous version when it screws up our boxes. They could still control what final revision we have by simply not supplying the previous revision in the stream but as a courtesy have both in the data stream until there are no complaints


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## lpickup (Jul 12, 2005)

jergenf said:


> Personally I wish they would allow a feature to both allow and reject a software release.


Would be cool, but practically speaking, I don't see it happening. It would make it more difficult for them to mandate a particular release be installed (for security reasons, for example).

Don't the older receivers have a settable option to allow new updates or not? As I recall, it didn't really do anything as they pretty much tagged all new releases as non-optional and it overrode that setting anyway.

...Lance


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

lpickup said:


> Would be cool, but practically speaking, I don't see it happening. It would make it more difficult for them to mandate a particular release be installed (for security reasons, for example).
> 
> Don't the older receivers have a settable option to allow new updates or not? As I recall, it didn't really do anything as they pretty much tagged all new releases as non-optional and it overrode that setting anyway.
> 
> ...Lance


My old 5000 receiver had an option to not allow an update but it was really useless because I would simply be stuck with a warning screen until I accepted the update anyway.

What I'm referring to would just apply to the 921. Presently they're sending L213 and now L216 at the same time but they determine which boxes get which release. It would be nice if the customer had the ability to try either of the releases their sending to determine what preferable for them. They may decide after a trial period to just send one release in the stream thus forcing you to the latest. But at least in the meantime everyone can become a beta tester and supply feedback.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

lpickup said:


> ...to mandate a particular release be installed (for security reasons, for example).


Ye*$*, *$*ecurity is alway*$* top priority! :lol:


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## lpickup (Jul 12, 2005)

AVJohnnie said:


> Ye*$*, *$*ecurity is alway*$* top priority! :lol:


Maybe so, but if I'm paying an extra dime per month because piracy is rampant and E* believes they have to recoup lost revenue, it's too much for me.

...Lance Pickup


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## Rodsman (Jan 29, 2005)

Well, I cannot complain on DISH's response to this issue. I called last Thursday about the hd failure and received the replacement 921 last night. Will fire it up tonight and I hope it goes well, but time will tell. Just wanted to comment because there really were no delays or issues in getthing a replacement.


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Mine failed on Tuesday of last week. I had a replacement on Friday. That's a quick response.  

I may have one issue; the optical audio output was not working when I first hooked up the 921. I had no sound from the Harmon Kardon. The first thing I checked was the Dolby/PCM selection. Changing it did nothing. I narrowed the problem down so that it was definitely the 921. While on the tech support line, I changed the Dolby/PCM and it started working on all 3 selections. A couple of hours later, it stopped working again, changing the Dolby/PCM setting, all 3 worked again. It's been OK since then so I will wait and see.


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