# Noticing some HD Channels are not really HD



## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Sorry for my Newbiness. I have had my 622 for about a month. I am noticing on my HD Locals that many times it is possibly SD content(has the black bars), even though its an HD channel and under "info" it says its an HD show. I am sure that I have my format set right(Normal). Is there such thing as an HD show that is only in 4:3 aspect or is it common for stations to possibly do this(seems like it happens more during daytime programming)

Curious?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

There are some shows in HD that are 4:3. Particularly older movies that were shot on film but in 4:3 aspect, have been converted to HD and will show on an HD movie channel with sidebars.

But... it sounds like you are talking about times during the day when channels are broadcasting SD programs converted to an HD signal. The major networks do this pretty much all day until primetime. There are some exceptions (like sports broadcasts on the weekends, or my local channel 5 does HD newscasts in the morning at noon and in the evening).


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Sure, it happens all the time. Many "HD" channels will show SD content at times.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

HD does not equal 16x9 aspect ratio

16x9 aspect ratio does not equal HD

You are correct that some HD channels do not show HD programming 24/7, but there are several programs out there that are HD but not in 16x9 especially movies originally shot on 35mm film.

See ya
Tony


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## humara (Jan 12, 2007)

i have had the same issue since i got the box.
i think it may be a combination of things.
1. the person(S) making the programming info, just check off HD box even though the show isn't HD
2. maybe there is some 4:3 aspects for HD?? it seems some channels will have slightly smaller bars on the sides. and some channels actually put the station logo out in the bar. which seems to me means that they are broadcasting a 480i source and upconverting it themselves. seems lame.
3. its not just the locals. many things on espnhd say its in hd and then you watch it and its not. but espn puts their own fancy bars on the side and has an HD ticker on the bottom.

very frustrating. here's hoping that 2007 really is the year of HD


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Guitar1969 said:


> I am noticing on *my HD Locals* that many times it is possibly SD content(has the black bars), even though *its an HD channel* and under "info" it says its an HD show.


 This misunderstanding has gone on for so long now that it's often accepted.... There's generally no such thing as an "HD channel" and to keep things clear, I'm referring to our "locals". In the case of Discovery HD Theatre, HDNet, etc, etc, yes, those are HD channels. Your locals come in two flavors, analog and digital. What you're calling HD channels are in fact digital channels. They do, on occasion, have HD programming.

Programs that show in the guide as "HD" and aren't are either mis-labeled or someone forgot to "flip the switch". I've also seen some guide data, if I'm correct it was when I had Time Warner, where every program on the digital channel was labeled "HD", when they often weren't.


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## marius (Dec 5, 2006)

Aside from the obvious (HD channels showing true SD content), I've noticed that some of the programs on TNT HD are not quite HD (or just terrible HD quality). Some look like DVD quality and some look like 4:3 SD/DVD stretched to fit 16:9.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I've at times seen my locals switch to a 4:3 AR in the middle of a show that I know is 16:9 (it's happend quite a few times during LOST and Grey's Anatomy). It's like someone at the station is flipping a switch for HD to SD when they go to commercials, and he forgets to flip the HD switch back on. 

Nothing is as annoying as our local NBC affliate here in Detroit. They knew the local ABC was going to a real HD Newscast, so they S T R E T C H their newscast on their digital feed to fill the whole 16:9 screen. There's this one reporter who is already enormous, and when they stretch her face out even more, she looks like a frigging building! It bugged me so much I switched to the ABC affiliate with the real HD Newscast.


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## INHUMANITY (Aug 8, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> Nothing is as annoying as our local NBC affliate here in Detroit. They knew the local ABC was going to a real HD Newscast, so they S T R E T C H their newscast on their digital feed to fill the whole 16:9 screen. There's this one reporter who is already enormous, and when they stretch her face out even more, she looks like a frigging building! It bugged me so much I switched to the ABC affiliate with the real HD Newscast.


That's hillarious dude. :lol: 
Do they actually think people are being fooled?

Funny thing was when I first got my 622 I was concerned that the locals weren't HD as they weren't (and still aren't) tagged as HD.

When I say tagged HD I'm referring to the actual HD programming on 9420+ where the info dialog says (HD).

Although it became obvious that all my locals ARE the HD (or I should rather say digital) feeds. It just depends on what programming is currently on and if it's in HD.

Still, I wish that I would be told its "HD" in the info field for the locals. Just being picky here.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I wonder if the local channels will ever realize that if you take the SD newscast and move it to one side or the other keeping it at full-size 4/3 and then put another one or two SD boxes on the "blank side" they can have additional video or radar or continuous weather info or sports info or even COMMERCIALS going on while the newscast is going on and advertise it as additional service. "Full screen news cast", "The area's only news cast with continuous weather and sports info". The SD broadcast would be totally unaffected.

All the singnals would be SD so the stations that haven't upgraded their equipment can just feed the milti-channels via the Master control switcher (which should have been upgraded in order for them to provide an HD signal in the first place).

This is "unclaimed" real estate on what is usually when most eye-balls are looking at their picture.

See ya
Tony


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## Thalador (Nov 27, 2006)

I am noticing also that alot of the local channels, NBC for example, dont seem to broadcast all of the shows in HD. Scrubs last Thursday for example was in either 4:3 HD or SD


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## pbrown (May 23, 2002)

Thalador said:


> I am noticing also that alot of the local channels, NBC for example, dont seem to broadcast all of the shows in HD. Scrubs last Thursday for example was in either 4:3 HD or SD


Scrubs has been shot 4x3 SD all along due to a cost saving decision by its production company. It will likely never be HD.


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## tsc (Nov 24, 2006)

Thalador said:


> I am noticing also that alot of the local channels, NBC for example, dont seem to broadcast all of the shows in HD. Scrubs last Thursday for example was in either 4:3 HD or SD


As already noted, Scrubs is not shot in HD, it's in SD, so you will see pillarbars. Most 'reality' shows on Primetime (except American Idol I believe) and game shows (except Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy, but those aren't primetime, I'm referring to shows like Deal Or No Deal) will be shot in SD to save costs.


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

If a program is shot and presented in HD (true HD) it will necessarily be 16x9 unless someone made a mistake at the broadcast station. I know of no instance where a show has been shot with HD camera equipment and turns out in 4:3.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

shortspark said:


> If a program is shot and presented in HD (true HD) it will necessarily be 16x9 unless someone made a mistake at the broadcast station. I know of no instance where a show has been shot with HD camera equipment and turns out in 4:3.


Fox's Mad TV is listed as an HD program yet it airs at 4:3. High quality 4:3 but 4:3 nonetheless.


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## SanDiegoPaul (Jan 17, 2007)

marius said:


> Aside from the obvious (HD channels showing true SD content), I've noticed that some of the programs on TNT HD are not quite HD (or just terrible HD quality). Some look like DVD quality and some look like 4:3 SD/DVD stretched to fit 16:9.


Funny! Here, TNT HD is one of the better HD channels. Isn't it amazing how the PQ changes from area to area. :nono2:


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

TNT-HD takes a lot of older content, not filmed in HD and not 16:9, upconverts and stretches the content. In this case it does not look as good as content actually filmed in HD but does look a lot better than it did in SD. The problem I have is the stretching. They should just leave it 4:3 and let the user decide whether or not to stretch it with their receiver/TV. An example of TNT doing this would be re-runs of The X-Files.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> I wonder if the local channels will ever realize that if you take the SD newscast and move it to one side or the other keeping it at full-size 4/3 and then put another one or two SD boxes on the "blank side" they can have additional video or radar or continuous weather info or sports info or even COMMERCIALS going on while the newscast is going on and advertise it as additional service. "Full screen news cast", "The area's only news cast with continuous weather and sports info". The SD broadcast would be totally unaffected.


Great idea for a news show, though I don't know if it's great enough to get me to watch TV news!

I recall a few years ago reading an explanation of why HDTV monitors have a ratio that doesn't match that of any movie or broadcast then available. It was so you could have a large primary picture, and 3 smaller pictures along the side.

Think of the large 4:3 as the equivalent ratio 12:9. Put a 4:3 beside it, stack 3 of those, and you have a total image of 16:9.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Or you could do it like the "geniuses" at the Seattle NBC affiliate and have an "HD" broadcast where the ONLY 16:9 HD is the camera pointed at the talking heads in the studio and they still only frame it for 4:3 so you get other people in the edges of the picture, and then it keeps swapping back to SD 4:3 with black bars for all graphics, video, and on-location reporting. The 16:9 to 4:3 swap happens roughly 2 - 3 times PER minute. Completely unwatchable, not that local news is worth watching most of the time.

Talk about a lesson in how NOT to do HD broadcasts. But then again this is the same station that puts NHL Stanley Cup finals on their SD only sister station so they can show their local news and news magazine shows instead, while all the other NBC affiliates in the country are showing the games in HD. Sorry, done with rant now.

Edit: Also, I'm moving this thread to the HD forum since it's more about HD channels in general and not specific to the 622.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

I read in one of the other forums that shows that aren't broadcast in HD don't get the (HD) indicator on them for other providers. For some reason Dish's guide information doesn't accurately reflect which shows are in HD.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

SanDiegoPaul said:


> Funny! Here, TNT HD is one of the better HD channels. Isn't it amazing how the PQ changes from area to area. :nono2:


Riiiight. TNT"HD" has more stretch-o-vision than I can deal with. The only damn show that is in HD is Law and Order. What a waste. However, when they have sports they do look good.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Rob Glasser said:


> TNT-HD takes a lot of older content, not filmed in HD and not 16:9, upconverts and stretches the content. In this case it does not look as good as content actually filmed in HD but does look a lot better than it did in SD. The problem I have is the stretching. They should just leave it 4:3 and let the user decide whether or not to stretch it with their receiver/TV. An example of TNT doing this would be re-runs of The X-Files.


X-Files is one of the weird examples too... because the later seasons are available in widescreen 16x9... so TNTHD should show the early seasons in 4:3 with sidebars but they could show the later seasons actually in HD. There are some other programs (NYPD Blue, Angel, etc.) that have widescreen available if TNT would acquire them that way.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

BobaBird said:


> I recall a few years ago reading an explanation of why HDTV monitors have a ratio that doesn't match that of any movie or broadcast then available. It was so you could have a large primary picture, and 3 smaller pictures along the side.


Hmmm... Maybe. What I read (and what PBS HD channel says...so it MUST be true ) 16x9 was a compromise/average size of the three most popular theatrical movie film aspect ratios.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The math works out good for a column of three next to a full height 4:3. If you use a column of two next to a smaller 4:3 image you have room for a crawl/banner on the bottom of the screen (about 1/9th screen height or 11% of the image).

I'm looking forward to ED 16x9 for things that don't have to be in HD.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The newschannels could really make use of the screen that way with all the crawls and stuff they like to have on the screen. They could go full 16x9 HD for remote location shoots but for the in studio, they could keep their 4:3 and use the remaining real estate for their stock ticker and other news items.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I could be wrong but I thought for some of the syndicated shows that TNT-HD shows, that the later seasons that were shot in HD are shown in the original HD format on TNT-HD, i.e. NYPD Blue, Law & Order, and ER. I rarely watch them so maybe I'm wrong. I know they do the stretch upconvert thing for ealier seasons, but didn't think so for the later seasons.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They may or may not have the rights for the HD versions of the shows.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Rob Glasser said:


> I could be wrong but I thought for some of the syndicated shows that TNT-HD shows, that the later seasons that were shot in HD are shown in the original HD format on TNT-HD, i.e. NYPD Blue, Law & Order, and ER. I rarely watch them so maybe I'm wrong. I know they do the stretch upconvert thing for ealier seasons, but didn't think so for the later seasons.


They do show Law & Order in HD... and ER as well... but NYPD Blue, X-Files, Angel, to name a few they always seem to show the stretch-o-vision ones. Not sure why they haven't been getting the HD that is available for all the shows that they could.


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## steveT (Jul 12, 2002)

Sorry for asking such basic questions, but here goes: I'm planning to convert from a 721 to the 622. My TV is a Sony XBR picture-tube (4x3), but supposedly can handle 1080i. I'm most interested in getting prime-time network content in HD. The questions:

1. If I'm watching prime-time network programs on HD local channels, will the picture automatically be 16x9, meaning I'll be watching smaller images on my 4x3 TV? (Or is there a setting on the 622 which will always output HD channels in a 4x3 format?)

2. Does the 622 always output HD in 1080i, regardless of whether the network broadcast format is 720p? (I'm pretty sure my TV can't handle 720p.)

Thanks...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

For those experiencing inexplicable 4:3 content in the middle of an otherwise HD show, there can be a few reasons. Two of the possibilities are:

1. The need to insert a "crawl" at the bottom of the screen (emergency information).
2. Their equipment that switches back and forth to insert SD commercials fails.

The crawl thing is especially annoying during elections and similar disasters.


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> HD does not equal 16x9 aspect ratio
> 
> 16x9 aspect ratio does not equal HD
> 
> ...


Your statement is slightly incorrect. You are correct that there are a lot of movies shot on 35mm that have a 1.33:1 (actually 1.37:1) aspect ratio. The bulk of these movies were shot before 1955 or so. Most movies shot after that time are in 1 of 3 common widescreen aspect ratios: 2.35:1 (Panavision), 1.85:1 (matted on top/bottom), 1.66:1 (typically used for animated movies, matte process again).

Content providers can do a couple ofl things when showing movies: preserve the original aspect ratio of the movie which can result in black bars on the side or top/bottom of the display; or crop the image to fill the screen resulting in missing picture content on the top/bottom or the sides.


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

steveT said:


> Sorry for asking such basic questions, but here goes: I'm planning to convert from a 721 to the 622. My TV is a Sony XBR picture-tube (4x3), but supposedly can handle 1080i. I'm most interested in getting prime-time network content in HD. The questions:
> 
> 1. If I'm watching prime-time network programs on HD local channels, will the picture automatically be 16x9, meaning I'll be watching smaller images on my 4x3 TV? (Or is there a setting on the 622 which will always output HD channels in a 4x3 format?)
> 
> ...


If the program content is 16x9, you have two options: smaller image on your TV (letterboxing), or cropping the sides.

The component/HDMI outputs can do 1080i, 720p, 480p or 480i. Check with your owners manual to make sure that your Sony XBR can actually handle an HD signal.

What kind of Sony TV do you have, how old is it, and what size is it? Depending upon the size and age of the TV, you may find that HD content on it is not watchable or even doable.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

devecho said:


> Your statement is slightly incorrect. You are correct that there are a lot of movies shot on 35mm that have a 1.33:1 (actually 1.37:1) aspect ratio. The bulk of these movies were shot before 1955 or so. Most movies shot after that time are in 1 of 3 common widescreen aspect ratios: 2.35:1 (Panavision), 1.85:1 (matted on top/bottom), 1.66:1 (typically used for animated movies, matte process again).
> 
> Content providers can do a couple ofl things when showing movies: preserve the original aspect ratio of the movie which can result in black bars on the side or top/bottom of the display; or crop the image to fill the screen resulting in missing picture content on the top/bottom or the sides.


Yup.. but none of that refutes what Tony said, really.

I think his point was that with those old 1.33:1 movies there can still be a true HD transfer made for broadcast just as with newer films that happen to have the other aspect ratios you mention.

A movie like Wizard of Oz for example. While you might view that on say a local CBS-DT affiliate in primetime, with the black bars like any 1.33:1 program might be, it could just be upconverted (like say Survivor.. not a show shot with HD cams) from an old run of the mill print or they could be using the re-mastered HD version like has been shown on TNT-HD a few times. Where it really is HD (as film based HD goes), but it's still 4x3 (1.33:1).

It's video based content thats always inherently 16x9 if it's HD. If you see any reality programming for example these days thats still 4x3, it's not HD.

In other words.. just making the film based HD vs. video based HD distinction. Film based stuff can be transferred to HD tape and have the resolution from the original print that qualifies it to be HD. Whether the film is 60 days old or 60 years old.

With video based HD like ball games and nature stuff, either the camera is HD or it isnt. And if it is, the format is always 16x9 when shown on an HD channel.


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## steveT (Jul 12, 2002)

devecho said:


> If the program content is 16x9, you have two options: smaller image on your TV (letterboxing), or cropping the sides.
> 
> The component/HDMI outputs can do 1080i, 720p, 480p or 480i. Check with your owners manual to make sure that your Sony XBR can actually handle an HD signal.
> 
> What kind of Sony TV do you have, how old is it, and what size is it? Depending upon the size and age of the TV, you may find that HD content on it is not watchable or even doable.


It's a Sony XBR Wega 36" CRT, from about year 2000, and was supposed to be capable of handling HD. But looking through the manual, it only has a few sentences on HD, and says that it is capable of displaying 1080i through the component inputs. No listing of 720p. Knowing that some of the major networks broadcast in 720p, I was wondering if the 622 retransmits that, or whether it upconverts everything to 1080i automatically.

Currently, when I have good source material, the display on this TV is great; I really think it's the best CRT television ever made. The only reason I'm even thinking of trying the 622's HD capability is because the video and audio quality of the Dallas locals on Dish is so bad. I thought switching to the digital channels would eliminate that problem. But I wouldn't be willing to make that trade for a smaller image (letterboxing).

So just so I'm clear, if my TV can display 1080i, with a 622 I could set it to crop any 16x9 images to 4x3?


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

DP1 said:


> Yup.. but none of that refutes what Tony said, really.
> 
> I think his point was that with those old 1.33:1 movies there can still be a true HD transfer made for broadcast just as with newer films that happen to have the other aspect ratios you mention.


Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that. But his sentence was a bit incomplete/misleading to me:

"You are correct that some HD channels do not show HD programming 24/7, but there are several programs out there that are HD but not in 16x9 especially movies originally shot on 35mm film."

The part of about "especially movies originally shot on 35mm film" implies to me two things: Movies these days are no longer shot on film (not true, at least not yet), and those movies that have been shot on 35mm are all 1.33 aspect ratio. A better sentence might have been:

"You are correct that some HD channels do not show HD programming 24/7, but there are several programs out there that are HD but not in 16x9 especially movies shot before 1955."

I realize I'm picking nits here and this isn't meant to diminish or contradict what Tony said, but merely to provide clarification. His first point in the post was succint and to the point about how a 16x9 aspect ratio doesn't necessarily equal HD, and vice-versa.

My obsession with aspect ratios and widescreen formats and how they get presented on TV (any type of TV) comes from having been into Laserdiscs for 16 or 17 years. I've learned a lot about film formats from that.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

steveT said:


> So just so I'm clear, if my TV can display 1080i, with a 622 I could set it to crop any 16x9 images to 4x3?


Just so that we're really clear... your sony is not a widescreen, so you only want to see 4:3 images regardless of the source material?

I think the 622 should be able to do that by defining the tv as 4:3 non-compressing, and then setting the output to 1080i.


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

steveT said:


> It's a Sony XBR Wega 36" CRT, from about year 2000, and was supposed to be capable of handling HD. But looking through the manual, it only has a few sentences on HD, and says that it is capable of displaying 1080i through the component inputs. No listing of 720p. Knowing that some of the major networks broadcast in 720p, I was wondering if the 622 retransmits that, or whether it upconverts everything to 1080i automatically.
> 
> Currently, when I have good source material, the display on this TV is great; I really think it's the best CRT television ever made. The only reason I'm even thinking of trying the 622's HD capability is because the video and audio quality of the Dallas locals on Dish is so bad. I thought switching to the digital channels would eliminate that problem. But I wouldn't be willing to make that trade for a smaller image (letterboxing).
> 
> So just so I'm clear, if my TV can display 1080i, with a 622 I could set it to crop any 16x9 images to 4x3?


Any content that is 720p (or 480p or 480i) will get converted to 1080i once you tell the 622 to do so. So no worries there.

As to the cropping issue, I know that there are zoom modes that should allow you to fill the screen from top to bottom, but lose content on the side. However, there may be some resolution loss from doing that. You may find that a slightly smaller image in HD with black bars is a reasonable tradeoff for getting better image and audio quality over what you have now.

What about letterboxing do you not like? The distracting black bars? The fact that you paid for a 36" set and it is using a smaller portion of it? That you are used to your programming filling the entire screen? A perceived loss of resolution by the letterboxing?


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

koralis said:


> Just so that we're really clear... your sony is not a widescreen, so you only want to see 4:3 images regardless of the source material?
> 
> I think the 622 should be able to do that by defining the tv as 4:3 non-compressing, and then setting the output to 1080i.


I believe that that will result in black bars on the top and bottom of the screen for widescreen material. I don't know if it will result in side bars as well. His Sony should be able to do compression and retain the full resolution of the image. When you pick non-compressing, I believe that it will lose some resolution.

I may just have to go home tonight and do some experiments...


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

harsh said:


> For those experiencing inexplicable 4:3 content in the middle of an otherwise HD show, there can be a few reasons. Two of the possibilities are:
> 
> 1. The need to insert a "crawl" at the bottom of the screen (emergency information).
> 2. Their equipment that switches back and forth to insert SD commercials fails.
> ...


Yes but at least they never interrupt the important things such as commercials and only interrupt the unimportant things such as the show.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

devecho said:


> I believe that that will result in black bars on the top and bottom of the screen for widescreen material. I don't know if it will result in side bars as well. His Sony should be able to do compression and retain the full resolution of the image. When you pick non-compressing, I believe that it will lose some resolution.
> 
> I may just have to go home tonight and do some experiments...


You're saying you want to compress a 16:9 image into a 4:3 image, without cropping? That's gonna give you some really skinny people.

Even my 16:9 HD set still gets black bars on the top and bottom for 1.85:1 and 2.15:1 OAR films. I could zoom it, and it would fill the screen and still be HD, but I'd lose picture from the edges.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

Mikey said:


> You're saying you want to compress a 16:9 image into a 4:3 image, without cropping? That's gonna give you some really skinny people.
> 
> Even my 16:9 HD set still gets black bars on the top and bottom for 1.85:1 and 2.15:1 OAR films. I could zoom it, and it would fill the screen and still be HD, but I'd lose picture from the edges.


I think what he meant was some 4x3 HD sets have the ability to compress down to where you're not "wasting" resolution in the unused part of the screen above and below the 16x9 frame.

Nothing to do with squeezing the image itself down thus making it look funny.


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## steveT (Jul 12, 2002)

koralis said:


> Just so that we're really clear... your sony is not a widescreen, so you only want to see 4:3 images regardless of the source material?
> 
> I think the 622 should be able to do that by defining the tv as 4:3 non-compressing, and then setting the output to 1080i.


Thanks for all the replies. To clarify:

- the Sony is a 4:3 TV.
- the goal is to view HD versions of ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox in high def on the 4:3 screen, with the image still filling the screen.

It just recently hit me that switching to HD locals, that the networks' popular prime-time shows are probably also broadcast in widescreen. All I'm trying to do is get decent picture and sound on shows like "Lost", "24", etc. The SD versions of those channels from Dish look terrible.

So I was hoping that getting a 622 and the HD locals would fix that problem. But if it means watching those programs in letterbox, I don't think I'm willing to make that trade-off. So I was hoping there was a way to essentially have the 622 do the "cropping" for me, and always fill the 4x3 screen.

I actually prefer to watch letterboxed versions of movies. But I'd consider letterboxing a downgrade for content I'm already used to watching.


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

steveT said:


> Thanks for all the replies. To clarify:
> 
> - the Sony is a 4:3 TV.
> - the goal is to view HD versions of ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox in high def on the 4:3 screen, with the image still filling the screen.
> ...


NBC has started broadcasting a number of their shows in a letterboxed format for SD channels. They've been doing this for a while, in fact. The last few seasons of The West Wing were broadcast that way. SNL, ER, Medium, and Conan are being broadcast that way now.

Don't think of it as getting less content on the bottom/top, but gaining content on the sides. If your Sony can do the compression thing and preserve the full resolution of the image, then you are way ahead of the game. You already are used to letterboxed movies. It's not that big a leap for TV programs.

Still, I believe that you should be able to force the 622 to zoom the image to fill the screen, thus automatically cropping the sides off.


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

devecho said:


> NBC has started broadcasting a number of their shows in a letterboxed format for SD channels. They've been doing this for a while, in fact. The last few seasons of The West Wing were broadcast that way. SNL, ER, Medium, and Conan are being broadcast that way now.
> 
> Don't think of it as getting less content on the bottom/top, but gaining content on the sides. If your Sony can do the compression thing and preserve the full resolution of the image, then you are way ahead of the game. You already are used to letterboxed movies. It's not that big a leap for TV programs.
> 
> Still, I believe that you should be able to force the 622 to zoom the image to fill the screen, thus automatically cropping the sides off.


And turns out that this is indeed true. I told the 622 that I had a 4:3 TV (#2, non-compressing), put my TV in 4:3 mode, tuned to an HD channel (one that I got in SD) and played around with the zoom mode via the remote. Full Zoom is what was required to get rid of the black (or grey) bars that the 622 will put up automatically when in this mode. This ended up lopping off an equal amount of picture on the left and right and pretty much equaled what the SD channel was showing (I used The Tonight Show).

I had the HDNET test pattern recorded, so I also played that to see what sort of resolution loss there would be. There is some loss, but it is very minor.

I'd say go for the 622 if you can get your locals in HD via Dish.


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## steveT (Jul 12, 2002)

devecho said:


> And turns out that this is indeed true. I told the 622 that I had a 4:3 TV (#2, non-compressing), put my TV in 4:3 mode, tuned to an HD channel (one that I got in SD) and played around with the zoom mode via the remote. Full Zoom is what was required to get rid of the black (or grey) bars that the 622 will put up automatically when in this mode. This ended up lopping off an equal amount of picture on the left and right and pretty much equaled what the SD channel was showing (I used The Tonight Show).
> 
> I had the HDNET test pattern recorded, so I also played that to see what sort of resolution loss there would be. There is some loss, but it is very minor.
> 
> I'd say go for the 622 if you can get your locals in HD via Dish.


Interesting; thanks for testing that. Were those zoom mode adjustments made via capabilities of the the 622, or of your TV? (If it's of the TV, I'm not sure my Sony has that capability...)


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## devecho (Mar 10, 2004)

steveT said:


> Interesting; thanks for testing that. Were those zoom mode adjustments made via capabilities of the the 622, or of your TV? (If it's of the TV, I'm not sure my Sony has that capability...)


The zoom mode was via the 622 (the asterix key on the remote).


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## gintzj (Jan 4, 2007)

Guitar1969 said:


> Sorry for my Newbiness. I have had my 622 for about a month. I am noticing on my HD Locals that many times it is possibly SD content(has the black bars), even though its an HD channel and under "info" it says its an HD show. I am sure that I have my format set right(Normal). Is there such thing as an HD show that is only in 4:3 aspect or is it common for stations to possibly do this(seems like it happens more during daytime programming)
> 
> Curious?


try the bottom left buttom for formating


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