# Battery Backup



## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

What company is the best for buying a battery backup to use with my Directv DVR? I've read alot that APC is the most popular but i've also seen some nice ones on amazon.com from a company called Cyberpower that has an LCD display on their units. I'm trying to decide between these two. Any feedback would be appreciated on which ones u guys think is the best choice. I just want the battery backup for short (under 30 seconds) power outages. I live in south florida and we have alot of storms and power issues down here. Seems like the power flickers on and off at least once a day. (one thing i like about the cyberpower is u can lay it flat or set it up like a tower)

1. http://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS-...04U8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311024827&sr=8-1

2 http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311024951&sr=1-1


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

gregftlaud said:


> What company is the best for buying a battery backup to use with my Directv DVR? I've read alot that APC is the most popular but i've also seen some nice ones on amazon.com from a company called Cyberpower that has an LCD display on their units. I'm trying to decide between these two. Any feedback would be appreciated on which ones u guys think is the best choice. I just want the battery backup for short (under 30 seconds) power outages. I live in south florida and we have alot of storms and power issues down here. Seems like the power flickers on and off at least once a day. (one thing i like about the cyberpower is u can lay it flat or set it up like a tower)
> 
> 1. http://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS-...04U8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311024827&sr=8-1
> 
> 2 http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311024951&sr=1-1


APC is definitely one of the best brands, but its quality is primarily in the software, that is.... it has nifty agents that can order servers and computers to shut themselves down gracefully in case of a power outage. For a DirecTV box, it is just a battery backup to catch power spikes you want, you might as well go with one of the cheaper brands.

Since the APC is cheaper then the other one, Go with the APC one. The one you posted seems pretty good.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

I have both Cyberpower and APC units and like them both. You can't go wrong with either brand.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Yah both brands have software u can attach ur computer to them and monitor/tweak stuff


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

You only need a small UPS for a DVR. You won't be using software or communication... just battery backup.

APC is the best choice... quality product and great customer support.
Sometimes the 350va APC UPS goes on sale for about $29.95.

Don't overlook the nifty Tripp Lite at Costco with the LCD display.

Cyberpower is a brand to avoid. Their failure rate is so bad I stopped selling them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gregftlaud said:


> Yah both brands have software u can attach ur computer to them and monitor/tweak stuff


I've got APCs and a Tripplite and they all work well.

Rich


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Subeluvr which model of Tripplite has an lcd display?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

It would be great if they could make the HRs battery backup aware via the USB port to allow for a gracefull shutdown.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

gregftlaud said:


> Subeluvr which model of Tripplite has an lcd display?


It's a "make-up" model just for Costco. Has a nifty LCD display that flips horizontal to vertical.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...7&topnav=b&cat=7838&hierPath=7838*&lang=en-US


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Ah. That's nice! But just a bit much to backup a dvr. Thanks for the info.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

gregftlaud said:


> Ah. That's nice! But just a bit much to backup a dvr. Thanks for the info.


That depends on how long you want to be able to run the DVR. When we do lose power, it tends to be a couple of hours or more. I have a Belkin AV UPS and a Cyberpower that will each run an HR2x for ~3 hours. Of course, the UPS on my SWM is a little long in the tooth and needs a new battery, so it only makes it about 100 minutes.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I have a couple of the APC ES 8's, good units. They can be had up the street from you at CompUSAfor the same price, save the shipping.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

I have both APC units and Cyberpower. Last year I purchased a Cyberpower for my PC because I needed a "pure sine wave" battery output to support my PC power supply which was very finicky about the power it was receiving. The APC units that were compatible were just priced way too high. I have had a very good experience with the Cyberpower unit.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> It's a "make-up" model just for Costco. Has a nifty LCD display that flips horizontal to vertical.
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...7&topnav=b&cat=7838&hierPath=7838*&lang=en-US


That's the one I've got too. Works well and I like the display. Huh, only came down $3 since I bought mine.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> It would be great if they could make the HRs battery backup aware via the USB port to allow for a gracefull shutdown.


I shut down all my HRs immediately if the power goes off. We don't have many power outages unless someone runs into a pole or a transformer goes down, so the power outages usually last a while. I also shut down my A/C unit and any other large device that draws a lot of juice.

Rich


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Well i only need one b/c we have alot of short power outages here in south florida b/c of all the storms. Like the flickering on and off type or off for like 10 seconds then back on so i just want mine for that. If the power is going to be off more than 30min-1hr then i'm like rich i just shut my dvr off b/c when we have power outages here in south florida we have power outages they last hours. Take them forever to fix even a small power outage. I just want mine like i said for the short on and off power outages.....the flicker types b/c they happen almost everyday here.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

gregftlaud said:


> Well i only need one b/c we have alot of short power outages here in south florida b/c of all the storms. Like the flickering on and off type or off for like 10 seconds then back on so i just want mine for that. If the power is going to be off more than 30min-1hr then i'm like rich i just shut my dvr off b/c when we have power outages here in south florida we have power outages they last hours. Take them forever to fix even a small power outage. I just want mine like i said for the short on and off power outages.....*the flicker types b/c they happen almost everyday here*.


If that's true, I would get one large enough to power your DVR and TV. No HDTV is going to like those kind of power fluctuations. This is especially true if you have any type of projection TV with a fan to cool the bulb (LCD, DLP, LCoS, etc).


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

No electronics like micro blips and brown outs... drives them nuts.

My UPS has software that monitors the line voltage and you wouldn't believe the fluctuations both up and down.

In my experience properly UPS units are mandatory self-defense for today's electronics... not just computers.

For those of you in storm areas where you use backup generators unless you have a generator that puts out pure sign wave AC you don't want to run your DVRs or TV off those Home Depot generators. Best to put a UPS on the gen and then run the electronics off that.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

I have a 50" Panny Viera TC-P50G20. Runs on like 480 watts. Have it plugged into an APC surger protector (non battery backup)


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

gregftlaud said:


> I have a 50" Panny Viera TC-P50G20. Runs on like 480 watts. Have it plugged into an APC surger protector (non battery backup)


Surge protector won't protect the TV in a brown-out, drop, or blip and cheap surge protectors use simple MOVs which are crude and slow and offer a false sense of security

You spent the bucks for a great TV now spend $100 at Costco and protect it.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

Should a TV and other equipment that run through a surge protector/power conditioner (like a Panamax) be connected to a UPS to protect against brown-outs and power flickering? I've heard arguments pro and con. Some say never run a surge protector through a UPS. (The manual that came with my APC UPS says that, too.) The audiovisual guy who sold me my new TV said they do it all the time without a problem.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

One or the other, but its not recommended to use both at once. They use coils and capacitors, which collectively in daisy chained devices, could cause each others tolerences to change, and its possible one or both could fail to do what they are supposed to do.


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## Sam_I_Am (Jul 21, 2011)

hilmar2k said:


> If that's true, I would get one large enough to power your DVR and TV. No HDTV is going to like those kind of power fluctuations. This is especially true if you have any type of projection TV with a fan to cool the bulb (LCD, DLP, LCoS, etc).


When I knew I was buying a 52" LED LCD TV I bought a APC S15 (silver) for a great closeout price from Vann's. It's big enough to run my whole Home Theater setup and outputs a pure sine wave. It was cheap insurance for some expensive equipment.  After I got it setup my son stopped by and said "why do you have a server power conditioner"?


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> One or the other, but its not recommended to use both at once. They use coils and capacitors, which collectively in daisy chained devices, could cause each others tolerences to change, and its possible one or both could fail to do what they are supposed to do.


Thanks.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

A quality UPS will provide superior surge-spike protection than a surge-spike protector. My Panamax surge-spike units only protect my RG-6 runs and phone lines and UPS units get to watch over the expensive stuff.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

It's APC, or nothing, for me.

I have some 15-year-old SmartUPS units here at home, and so long as I change the batteries every few years, they run like a top.

I just picked up a 4-month-old SmartUPS 1500 w/ LCD for $100 online (not fleaBay).

They're all I'll buy these days.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Dr_J said:


> Should a TV and other equipment that run through a surge protector/power conditioner (like a Panamax) be connected to a UPS to protect against brown-outs and power flickering? I've heard arguments pro and con. Some say never run a surge protector through a UPS. (The manual that came with my APC UPS says that, too.) The audiovisual guy who sold me my new TV said they do it all the time without a problem.


If IIRC, the APC manual says something like do not use a surge protector before the UPS. I don't see any reason not to use a surge protector after the UPS. I do it, not because I have any faith in surge protectors, I just like the way they are configured. Hard to find power strips that are configured as well as surge protectors.

Rich


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## Joe166 (Jan 6, 2007)

dmurphy said:


> It's APC, or nothing, for me.
> 
> I have some 15-year-old SmartUPS units here at home, and so long as I change the batteries every few years, they run like a top.
> 
> ...


How do you know when to change the batteries? I have had a few of these hooked up but I guess I won't know the batteries are weak until they fail during a power failure. Where I have them is not the most convenient place to check them out.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Joe166 said:


> How do you know when to change the batteries? I have had a few of these hooked up but I guess I won't know the batteries are weak until they fail during a power failure. Where I have them is not the most convenient place to check them out.


 My APCs start beeping


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Every UPS I've ever had has given some indication when it's about to go.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Every UPS I've ever had has given some indication when it's about to go.


Every UPS I've sold over 20 years has an LED or audible indicator that alerts battery failure is imminent.

As time goes by the battery will lose capacity. A UPS that will hold it's load for 15 minutes when new won't do the same with a two or three year old battery.

Simple test is to pull the UPS wall plug every 6 months and see if the unit shuts down.

*Sorry Rich584*,

A surge-spike protector before or after a UPS is not recommended as they can effect the quality of the power before the UPS and present an inductive load after a UPS.

It is hard to find cheap power strips that are configured as well as surge protectors but not as difficult to find more costly power strips that are.

But, UPS units are configured to support the number of devices that their capacity was designed to support. Regardless of our wants as consumers the idea of adding more devices than a UPS is configured for compromises the UPS' protection and capacity.

Many UPS units are configured with battery backup and surge-spike (only) protected outlets for their specific volt-amp or watts capacity.

If you want to protect more devices then buy a bigger UPS or two or three.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> Every UPS I've sold over 20 years has an LED or audible indicator that alerts battery failure is imminent.
> 
> As time goes by the battery will lose capacity. A UPS that will hold it's load for 15 minutes when new won't do the same with a two or three year old battery.
> 
> ...


I've got a (cheap) power strip hanging off my SmartUPS to provide more outlets.

I know it's not exactly "recommended" but I don't think it's an issue (at least the way I've got it configured.) On my SmartUPS 1500, I'm showing a 270VA load with a 51 minute runtime. I don't think a power strip to run my 4 FireWire hard disks is unreasonable - they have minimal power draw.


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## geaux tigers (Nov 11, 2005)

Everything you need and more.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10839&cs_id=1083901&p_id=4153&seq=1&format=2


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

dmurphy said:


> I've got a (cheap) power strip hanging off my SmartUPS to provide more outlets.
> 
> I know it's not exactly "recommended" but I don't think it's an issue (at least the way I've got it configured.) On my SmartUPS 1500, I'm showing a 270VA load with a 51 minute runtime. I don't think a power strip to run my 4 FireWire hard disks is unreasonable - they have minimal power draw.


A power strip to increase the # of outlets (without exceeding the capacity of the UPS) is one thing and a surge-spike protector is another thing entirely.

A surge-spike protector is not just increasing the cumulative load. A surge-spike protector introduces an inductive load for the UPS to deal with. Surge-spike protectors have MOVs and coils inside.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

geaux tigers said:


> Everything you need and more.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10839&cs_id=1083901&p_id=4153&seq=1&format=2


Buy the Tripp Lite at Costco http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11608808&whse=BD_767&topnav=b&cat=7838&hierPath=7838*&lang=en-US










Costs less and a brand name.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Is it ok to have the following 2 products on your standard 2 outlet wall plug?
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Surge-Protector-Extension-Combo/dp/B003XNSBXY (not the extension cord)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QZ3UG0


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Is it ok to have the following 2 products on your standard 2 outlet wall plug?
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Surge-Protector-Extension-Combo/dp/B003XNSBXY (not the extension cord)
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QZ3UG0


Each plugged in to a socket on the wall is OK.

If you haven't already bought the CyberPower I would recommend you look at another brand. I've had an annoying failure rate with that brand to the point that I won't sell them.

The Tripp Lite from Costco mentioned above is far superior and Tripp Lite is an established company with a long history of quality product and good customer support.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> A power strip to increase the # of outlets (without exceeding the capacity of the UPS) is one thing and a surge-spike protector is another thing entirely.
> 
> A surge-spike protector is not just increasing the cumulative load. A surge-spike protector introduces an inductive load for the UPS to deal with. Surge-spike protectors have MOVs and coils inside.


How would you measure that/those load/loads? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd really like to see it on a meter.

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> Each plugged in to a socket on the wall is OK.
> 
> If you haven't already bought the CyberPower I would recommend you look at another brand. I've had an annoying failure rate with that brand to the point that I won't sell them.
> 
> The Tripp Lite from Costco mentioned above is far superior and Tripp Lite is an established company with a long history of quality product and good customer support.


Thanks subeluvr. Fortunately (knock on wood), I've had great results with 2 of those CyberPowers.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

rich584 said:


> How would you measure that/those load/loads? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd really like to see it on a meter.
> 
> Rich


A cumulative load is easily measured with a Kill-A-Watt.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=kill+a+watt&tag=googhydr-20&index=electronics&hvadid=5156566091&ref=pd_sl_98x9f93sdk_e

I'm not a EE, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Not using a surge-spike protector before or after a UPS was brought up and discussed at technical training and seminars I attended and in discussions with engineers at APC, Opti, and Best... all major players in UPS technology.

When I have access to expert professional technical information I'm not concerned with _why_ questions and apply myself to the _how_ questions. My clients prefer it that way cause I'm a better technician than a teacher.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> A cumulative load is easily measured with a Kill-A-Watt.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=kill+a+watt&tag=googhydr-20&index=electronics&hvadid=5156566091&ref=pd_sl_98x9f93sdk_e


I've already got one, but thanx for the link, perhaps someone else can use it. Nifty little meter and cheap, too.



> I'm not a EE, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.


That's good to know. I was curious. I'm also curious about the relationship of UPS and surge protectors.



> Not using a surge-spike protector before or after a UPS was brought up and discussed at technical training and seminars I attended and in discussions with engineers at APC, Opti, and Best... all major players in UPS technology.
> 
> When I have access to expert professional technical information I'm not concerned with _why_ questions and apply myself to the _how_ questions. My clients prefer it that way cause I'm a better technician than a teacher.


I'll agree with the idea of not using a surge protector before a UPS because the manufacturer clearly states that in the literature. As far as I can tell, the only reason for not feeding a UPS with a surge protector is because it's not necessary.

Now I'm going to call Tripp Lite and talk to their tech folks about my setups in particular, because I've had used surge protectors after the UPS devices and had no problems. Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just curious and I'd like to get this settled in my mind. Again, I've had the Tripp Lite UPS for awhile and never had a problem with it. It's the same one you recommend.

I'll get back after I talk to them.

Rich


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Now I'm going to call Tripp Lite and talk to their tech folks about my setups in particular, because I've had used surge protectors after the UPS devices and had no problems. Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just curious and I'd like to get this settled in my mind. Again, I've had the Tripp Lite UPS for awhile and never had a problem with it. It's the same one you recommend.
> 
> I'll get back after I talk to them.


It's been many years since I've talked to them and I'm curious to see if their position has changed.

I recall having a discussion with a Panamax tech person at CES years ago and he advised against using their devices in concert with a UPS. I prefer Panamax for protecting coax, telephone, and devices that don't need power backup. Panamax was one of the first companies to provide high enough bandwidth on their coax protection circuits to accommodate DBS.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> It's been many years since I've talked to them and I'm curious to see if their position has changed.
> 
> I recall having a discussion with a Panamax tech person at CES years ago and he advised against using their devices in concert with a UPS. I prefer Panamax for protecting coax, telephone, and devices that don't need power backup. Panamax was one of the first companies to provide high enough bandwidth on their coax protection circuits to accommodate DBS.


I just got off the phone with a Tripp Lite tech. His comment on putting a surge protector in front of a UPS was simple and straight forward, "Overkill". My thoughts exactly.

I then asked him about the surge protector behind (downstream of) the UPS. The only concern he had was when the battery comes on just after a power loss there might be a power surge that would cause the surge protector to kick out or fail. He started to explain to me how the battery backup voltage works and I interrupted him and said it's "chopped DC that approximates AC voltage". After that we discussed things on an even basis.

My original thought was that surge protectors are passive devices that only react to power surges, he agreed with that, so putting a meter on one should produce no results other than what is normally passing thru the surge protector. A surge protector with nothing on it will only give you a voltage reading.

We talked about MOVs or Metal Oxide Varistors, varistors being electrical components having variable resistance. Again a passive device, his words. Then we talked about capacitors and coils which are in some high end surge protectors to keep the noise levels constant. Again, passive devices unless needed.

I then explained my setup using the Tripp Lite UPS that you've been recommending. I have three HRs and one BD player on mine. Pulls about 140W, give or take. All plugged into a surge protector only because I just happened to plug them into it. No particular reason, just four standard two prong plugs. He told me not to worry about it at all.

Again, please don't take this as a personal attack, it's not. The company I used to work for did a study when we first started seeing PCs on employee's desks. Long story, short answer. We found nothing that would support the use of surge protectors or UPS devices. We went back twenty years looking at circular graphs that were recorded in real time and saw nothing that supported the mass purchases of surge protectors and UPS devices on our nickel. We already had big UPS systems in each building and saw no evidence of power surges that our sub-station surge protectors didn't take care of.

Rich


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

rich584 said:


> The company I used to work for did a study when we first started seeing PCs on employee's desks. Long story, short answer. We found nothing that would support the use of surge protectors or UPS devices. We went back twenty years looking at circular graphs that were recorded in real time and saw nothing that supported the mass purchases of surge protectors and UPS devices on our nickel. We already had big UPS systems in each building and saw no evidence of power surges that our sub-station surge protectors didn't take care of.
> 
> Rich


And my experience of over 20 years in systems integration and support agrees with you... to a point. The quality and consistency of electrical power in commercial and/or industrial environments is consistent, but the same is not true in residential environments. In many urban and rural areas brown-outs and spikes are common and the need for UPS units to protect electronics is more important because the homeowner can't simply buy new hardware and write it off as capital equipment.

In many area one doesn't need a 24 hour recording voltmeter to see power fluctuations during rainstorms because we can see the lights dimming, flickering, and dropping out with our own eyes. Resetting clocks is one thing... crashing DVRs and computers is another thing entirely.

Because this is a _end user forum_ those are the problems and environments I address when recommending UPS units on DVRs.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, because it is not... with respect to the (limited) study your company made I'll continue to install servers in commercial and industrial environments with true sine wave UPS units protecting them and I'll continue to recommend UPS units for workstations, PCs, and DVRs. The hardware I install has a failure rate of less than 1% during it's projected service life in the field with properly sized UPS protection so I won't change what many years of first hand field experience has proved works.

For a business, a UPS costs less than the minimum charge for an on site service call. For a homeowner with a DVR a $39.95 350va UPS is cheap insurance.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Sorry, late to the party here, but I have had UPS's on my DVR's since, well almost right after got my first DVR 10+ years ago.

I have tried them all: APC, Tripp Lite, Cyber Power, Geek Squad. All have at some point failed. I went through 2 higher-end (well as high end as a comsumer model gets) APC's on my Media Room setup. Got tired of replacing them and or batteries.

Last time it failed, I went with a Panamax. Cost more, but so far after almost a year and a half, it has not so much as burped. When I had my living room plasma setup down last winter, replaced that one with a Panamax as well. Not because it was bad, but because it is such a PITA to get to, so when it was all open, fix it. (Built-in's are great, but can be a PITA to replace equipment in.)

And a note for those who are using UPS's to keep DVR's recording during a power outage, don't forget that SWiM's need power as well.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> I have tried them all: APC, Tripp Lite, Cyber Power, Geek Squad. All have at some point failed. I went through 2 higher-end (well as high end as a consumer model gets) APC's on my Media Room setup. Got tired of replacing them and or batteries.


When you say _failed_ do you mean the unit fatally failed or the batteries depleted and needed to be replaced?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Failed as in junk. We have a Batteries Plus, so getting replacement batteries is not a problem.

They would start beeping like the batteries needed replaced. Replaced batteries. Couple of days later, the beeping would start again. It was not passing power. Pulled the batteries and put them in a different unit and it worked fine. So it was not the batteries.

Maybe it was a bad batch of APC units. I had two and parents had one and the all failed.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have 3 APC S15s (Pure Sine Wave Battery Backups with Surge Protection, Automatic Voltage Regulation and Line Conditioning), 1 APC J15 and 2 ES750s and they all work as advertised.

I did have the batteries on one of my ES750s die and APC replaced the Batteries Free of Charge because it was still within the One Year Warranty.

No Rebooting DVRs at my Home!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> And my experience of over 20 years in systems integration and support agrees with you... to a point. The quality and consistency of electrical power in commercial and/or industrial environments is consistent, but the same is not true in residential environments. In many urban and rural areas brown-outs and spikes are common and the need for UPS units to protect electronics is more important because the homeowner can't simply buy new hardware and write it off as capital equipment.
> 
> In many area one doesn't need a 24 hour recording voltmeter to see power fluctuations during rainstorms because we can see the lights dimming, flickering, and dropping out with our own eyes. Resetting clocks is one thing... crashing DVRs and computers is another thing entirely.
> 
> ...


I do live in a very stable part of the national grid. We even supply NYC when they lose power. In some parts of the country that protection is absolutely necessary. I started using UPS devices a couple years ago when the 20-700s suddenly became more sensitive to very brief "blips". Never had a problem before that. Now, with 12 HRs, any outage causes me to reset all my HRs sequentially and that takes quite a while. We usually get the power back almost immediately or I do shut all the HRs down and shut off the UPS devices.

Rich


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I do live in a very stable part of the national grid. We even supply NYC when they lose power. In some parts of the country that protection is absolutely necessary. I started using UPS devices a couple years ago when the 20-700s suddenly became more sensitive to very brief "blips". Never had a problem before that. Now, with 12 HRs, any outage causes me to reset all my HRs sequentially and that takes quite a while. We usually get the power back almost immediately or I do shut all the HRs down and shut off the UPS devices.
> 
> Rich


I envy your power stability. Out here, with the nation's weapons labs all around, the public just gets the _hash_ that's left over after the national labs take the clean power they want and we do have our lightning storms..

For 10+ years I didn't care much about my Dish DVRs... I just hated resetting the clocks all over the house so often.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> I envy your power stability. Out here, with the nation's weapons labs all around, the public just gets the _hash_ that's left over after the national labs take the clean power they want and we do have our lightning storms..


We had a plant in Moses Lake, Washington that was just downhill from the Grand Coulee Dam. It's in the middle of a desert and I couldn't believe the number of pools I saw in backyards as we landed. Later I found out they were mostly heated by electricity. Gotta be an upside to living downriver from a dam, I guess. They paid next to nothing for electricity. And get perfect, clean service. The plant we had there manufactured silicon chips. You have to use voltage at tremendous levels and the whole place is surrounded by huge step up transformers. Looks like a great place to live, practically no snow, land is cheap, cars don't rust (I saw a whole lot of old cars there that had bodies that looked new), a nice lake and it's close to the Cascades and Spokane. My travelogue ends here...:lol:

There used to be a lot of industry in Central NJ, so I guess the State or feds kept the mechanical parts of the grid in this area in good shape. I don't remember ever having a brown out (that's when the voltage drops below 95 volts, rule of thumb). Even during storms, we rarely have problems. Lotta switching stations, that makes a huge difference.

The place I worked at didn't even worry about clean juice. We were able to use what our sub-stations put out. If we needed constant, really clean power, we used special transformers that would hold a steady voltage as long as the main power was up. Sola transformers, that's the name. I think they have a pretty good website. It only dawned on me that all parts of the country don't get the same kind of service after I joined the forum. Something that never occurred to me and I had no reason to know. Now I see the differences.



> For 10+ years I didn't care much about my Dish DVRs... I just hated resetting the clocks all over the house so often.


I bought those clocks that Brookstone sells that reset themselves immediately when the power comes back on.

If I didn't have to reset all the DVRs sequentially to get them all back on MRV, I wouldn't worry about mine either. Takes me at least an hour every time we lose power for an extended period of time (like when somebody takes down a pole that jumped in front of him) to reset all my DVRs. Gotta do them one at a time and it's a real PITA to do.

Nice chatting. 

Rich


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## Sam_I_Am (Jul 21, 2011)

subeluvr said:


> *A power strip to increase the # of outlets (without exceeding the capacity of the UPS) is one thing* and a surge-spike protector is another thing entirely.
> 
> A surge-spike protector is not just increasing the cumulative load. A surge-spike protector introduces an inductive load for the UPS to deal with. Surge-spike protectors have MOVs and coils inside.


I have a Furman PlugLock-PFP Circuit-Breaker Protected Locking Outlet Strip for all the 'Wall Warts' on my Computer desk. It's just a power strip and it frees up space.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

I have a panel mounted surge protector. The JA120y to be exact. http://www.majorpower.com/wiremold/ha_ja_specs.pdf


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## RonH (Jul 25, 2007)

I have 2 of these I use, one for Computer and one for AV components.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=troyTvT_M4q6tgehuKWYDQ&ved=0CFwQ8wIwBA


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

I have found that video quality degrades when my TV is plugged into a UPS. I have an APC XPS 900 and the picture quality is much poorer when my TV is plugged into it rather than a tripp lite surge protector without battery backup. Have any of you made similar quality comparisons with your UPS and TV?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have a APC S15 (Pure Sine Wave) UPS with Line Conditioning and Surge Protection and Automatic Voltage Regulation and I don't experience any Video Degradation.

I also have 2 APC J15 UPS Units and I don't have a problem with them either.

However, I took my LED TV off of it because I don't need to watch TV during a Storm with Power Outage and it takes too much Voltage to run it so I just put it on a Surge Protector but if it is a bad storm then I might just unplug it if I am home.

I found it just uses up too much Battery and I can just listen to the Weather Channel via my Denon with my TV unplugged and find out what is going on.

Perhaps a more expensive unit might serve you better.


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

I agree that the XPS 900 is not audio- or video-phile grade. I agree with you that I don't need the TV to function for short periods during power outages. Surge protection is my main concern.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dminches said:


> I have found that video quality degrades when my TV is plugged into a UPS. I have an APC XPS 900 and the picture quality is much poorer when my TV is plugged into it rather than a tripp lite surge protector without battery backup. Have any of you made similar quality comparisons with your UPS and TV?


I don't see any difference when using the APCs or my Tripplite. Perhaps your battery is going south? I don't know if that would affect the PQ, but it's the only thing I can think of. I just bought two Sony AV receivers recently and the upscaling from them has improved the PQ on two of my TVs. Didn't expect that, it was very noticeable right away.

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dminches said:


> I have found that video quality degrades when my TV is plugged into a UPS. I have an APC XPS 900 and the picture quality is much poorer when my TV is plugged into it rather than a tripp lite surge protector without battery backup. Have any of you made similar quality comparisons with your UPS and TV?


I use a CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD 9-Outlet Intelligent LCD UPS (1000VA/600W) and don't have any PQ difference with it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I use a CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD 9-Outlet Intelligent LCD UPS (1000VA/600W) and don't have any PQ difference with it.


Could it be his battery? What else makes any sense?

Rich


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Could it be his battery? What else makes any sense?
> 
> Rich


I didn't think these ran on battery unless the power was out so I don't know if that matters. On the other hand, if the battery was charging could that affect the amount of current going to the devices that are hooked up? If I say anything more I will embarrass myself :lol:.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dminches said:


> I didn't think these ran on battery unless the power was out so I don't know if that matters. On the other hand, if the battery was charging could that affect the amount of current going to the devices that are hooked up? If I say anything more I will embarrass myself :lol:.


I don't really know, but the battery in a UPS has got to be the weakest link. I think. How old is it?

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I wish I could help, but this (electricity/currents/etc) is wayyyyyyy out of my area of knowledge. :lol:


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

There are line interactive, on-line, and stand-by UPS units.

There are UPS units that provide clean sine wave AC and those that only come close.

There are UPS units that are operating properly and those that are defective, even though not fatally defective.

If your UPS is causing video degradation then it may be one of the later and/or the ground in the outlet the UPS is plugged into may not be as good as it should be. There also may be a ground loop.

The place to start is to put an O-scope on the UPS outputs and see if it is providing clean AC.

I agree with a previous poster that I don't put my TV on a UPS. I do have it on a high quality Panamax surge-spike protector. As far as UPS I'm only concerned with my DTV DVR and my DVR.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> As far as UPS I'm only concerned with my DTV DVR and my DVR.


In my case it's my DTV DVR (and my wireless connector), mainly to avoid the 10-minute startup delay on the DVR after a half-second power 'blip'. The computer and wireless router are in another room and on a bigger UPS.

If the power does down for more than a 'blip' the DVR can continue to record for a while and I can catch up later (in the rare cases where I'm actually watching live tv) when the power comes back for the tv. If the power goes down for more than a few minutes, recording tv is the least of my worries.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> In my case it's my DTV DVR (and my wireless connector), mainly to avoid the 10-minute startup delay on the DVR after a half-second power 'blip'. The computer and wireless router are in another room and on a bigger UPS.
> 
> If the power does down for more than a 'blip' the DVR can continue to record for a while and I can catch up later (in the rare cases where I'm actually watching live tv) when the power comes back for the tv. If the power goes down for more than a few minutes, recording tv is the least of my worries.


Agreed, and my modem, router, and DCCK-W are all on a big on-line UPS in the other (computer) room.

As you, and others, I'm concerned with crashing my DVRs during a power drop.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> Agreed, and my modem, router, and DCCK-W are all on a big on-line UPS in the other (computer) room.
> 
> As you, and others, I'm concerned with crashing my DVRs during a power drop.


I wouldn't even bother plugging my TVs into a UPS, I wish a couple of them would blow, I want new ones. None of my Panny plasmas are plugged into UPS devices. They are on surge protectors, but I don't even see the need for them. Damn things are gonna last forever....:lol:

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The only thing you need to plug into a Battery Backup is a Device that stays on all the time such as a PC or DVR or Receiver that you don't want to suddenly power down without going thru a "Graceful Shutdown" as in a PC or DVR having the Power shut off quickly.

I would Never use a TV in a Bad Storm as I might get a Surge or Lightning Strike far enough away to not be a Direct Hit but enough residual energy to blow a TV or Receiver.


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## toneman (Oct 23, 2007)

dminches said:


> I didn't think these ran on battery unless the power was out so I don't know if that matters. On the other hand, if the battery was charging could that affect the amount of current going to the devices that are hooked up? If I say anything more I will embarrass myself :lol:.


Here's how you can find out if an outlet on a UPS is powered off the battery--disconnect the battery (of course you'd want to unplug the UPS from the wall first to be safe, then plug it back in after the battery is disconnected), then see if the device that's plugged into the outlet will power up...if it doesn't power up, then you have your answer. Note--some lower-end UPS models have outlets that are surge-protected only (i.e., no battery backup) so any device plugged into these outlets will remained powered even if you disconnect the battery.

Note--many "true" UPS units are designed such that any device plugged into one is powered strictly by the battery--the AC is for keeping the battery charged. This is so that when there is a power outage, there is no delay (however miniscule it may be) that typically occurs when cutting over from AC to battery; for many devices (e.g., lamps, TVs) it is no big deal if there is a slight delay when cutting over...but for certain other types of devices (e.g., computers) such a delay would not be desired--imagine if your computer was writing data to the hard drive and there was a delay while your UPS was cutting over from AC to battery right at that moment? You'd have a greater potential for data loss compared to if your computer was running straight off the UPS battery if you experience a power outage.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

toneman said:


> Here's how you can find out if an outlet on a UPS is powered off the battery--disconnect...


Wouldn't it be much simpler to just unplug the AC cord and see?


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## jtudor (Feb 24, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Wouldn't it be much simpler to just unplug the AC cord and see?


Not really if the UPS is working properly. If you pull the AC cord the battery goes online, if it is not already and powers the outlet.

The only way to know for certain is to disconnect the battery and see what happens.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

toneman said:


> Note--many "true" UPS units are designed such that any device plugged into one is powered strictly by the battery--the AC is for keeping the battery charged. This is so that when there is a power outage, there is no delay (however miniscule it may be) that typically occurs when cutting over from AC to battery; for many devices (e.g., lamps, TVs) it is no big deal if there is a slight delay when cutting over...but for certain other types of devices (e.g., computers) such a delay would not be desired--imagine if your computer was writing data to the hard drive and there was a delay while your UPS was cutting over from AC to battery right at that moment? You'd have a greater potential for data loss compared to if your computer was running straight off the UPS battery if you experience a power outage.


I have the most expensive APC that they make for Home Theater Purposes which is a S15 S-Type Power Conditioner with Battery Backup and it runs directly off of the Electrical Output after it has been converted to Pure Sine Waves and only uses the Battery when it detects an Outage and converts over to Battery Usage within 7-10 Ms (which is assume is 7 to 10 Milliseconds).

So it only uses the Battery Power when it detects an Electrical Outage. I also have 2 APC J15 Units which are cheaper but they do not put out Pure Sine Waves but Stepped or Clipped Sine Waves.

I Never have DVR Reboots unless Directv does it but not because of Electrical Interruptions or Outages.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

richierich said:


> I have the most expensive APC that they make for Home Theater Purposes which is a S15 S-Type Power Conditioner with Battery Backup and it runs directly off of the Electrical Output after it has been converted to Pure Sine Waves and only uses the Battery when it detects an Outage and converts over to Battery Usage within 7-10 Ms (which is assume is 7 to 10 Milliseconds).
> 
> So it only uses the Battery Power when it detects an Electrical Outage. I also have 2 APC J15 Units which are cheaper but they do not put out Pure Sine Waves but Stepped or Clipped Sine Waves.
> 
> I Never have DVR Reboots unless Directv does it but not because of Electrical Interruptions or Outages.


Toneman is right on point...

*On line* UPS unit power their AC outlets with the battery through the inverter all the time. There is no switchover when line power fails and the indication of line power failure is an audible alarm or visible indicator like an LED.

*Stand by* or *line interactive* UPS units use line power to run their outlets although that line current may be filtered or stabilized. When line power fails there is a switchover to the battery/inverter to supply power.

From a power quality and protection standpoint the most desirable UPS units are the *on line* ones that supply pure sine wave AC and they are more expensive. All other designs are a compromise in power quality or switchover time.

Your APC S15 with a switchover of 2-4ms would seem to be a *stand by* design, not the *on line* design, and it's output is listed as "_sine wave_" which in advertising terms does not mean *pure* sine wave. If it's output was pure sine wave that is what it would say. That would seem to be true based on APC's description of the S15... "*Power Conditioner* with Battery Backup"

Most *stand by* UPS units output a modified sine wave which is a more square and/or clipped waveform than a pure sine wave.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

My Manual for my S15 states on Page 1.4 "Pure Sine Wave Battery Backup". And it also states on Page 2.18 that you can set voltage threshold to force it to switch to power from
the Internal Battery Pack once the Threshold is reached and there are similar statements stating that it uses Pass Thru Power from the outlet which is conditioned and regulated and used to power the outlets that your Home Theater System Components are plugged into.

I also spoke with an APC technical person when I first bought the unit and he stated that it only operates off of the battery when it experiences a loss of power at acceptable levels or due to a total power outage.

Also, on Page A-3 which is an appendix it states Transfer Time to Battery During Outage - 7ms Typical, 10 ms Maximum.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

richierich said:


> My Manual for my S15 states on Page 1.4 "Pure Sine Wave Battery Backup". And it also states on Page 2.18 that you can set voltage threshold to force it to switch to power from
> the Internal Battery Pack once the Threshold is reached and there are similar statements stating that it uses Pass Thru Power from the outlet which is conditioned and regulated and used to power the outlets that your Home Theater System Components are plugged into.
> 
> I also spoke with an APC technical person when I first bought the unit and he stated that it only operates off of the battery when it experiences a loss of power at acceptable levels or due to a total power outage.
> ...


If your manual states *pure sine wave* then I stand corrected... and you might contact APC and have them review their online information on the S15.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=S15 which does not say PURE SINE WAVE.

The APC online info never says PURE SINE WAVE and also specs 2-4ms and you say your manual says 7-10ms switchover which clearly defines the S15 as a stand by or backup UPS not an *on line* design. The giveaway statement "_to *switch to* power from the Internal Battery Pack_". A true on line UPS always supplies AC from the internal batteries and inverter and never switches over to battery.

Regardless, it is more protection than most people bother to invest in and you are to be commended


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm getting ready to plug my HDTV into a UPS. During the storm We had at least 8 power blips that didn't really affect anything. I knew they happened because the UPS alarm bleeped. Thee was a longer one while I was away.

The reason for plugging the TV in is simple and it isn't to watch it. It is the fact that if the power goes off when it comes on again so does the TV at high volume and ION TV and it also needs a channel scan.

This stormy weekend I do not know how long it was blaring away in the TV room before I came home, could have been days.

I've used a APC UPS for years ever since I got my first Tivo, a 30 ? Hour Stand alone that I used before satellite TV even had a DVR. That Tivo was sure slow rebooting when the power came back on.

Be sure to size the UPS to match the wattage it can supply to the load it needs to power.

In Central NJ as rich584 mentioned the power is pretty reliable. The only time it was out for days was after a big storm years ago and even then it was still on until the fool down the street brought out his chain saw to clean up after the storm and took out the power lines.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

subeluvr said:


> Regardless, it is more protection than most people bother to invest in and you are to be commended


Yes, it was Expensive and I paid Wholesale Price because a friend of mine was in the Home Theater Business but I also got another 2 Units for $300 each and these sold for $1500 when they first came out and I also bought a J15 which is Stepped or Clipped Sine Waves and Not Pure Sine Waves which is what this S15 Model talked about in their Premier Advertising as this was the First UPS Unit that Outputted Pure Sine Wave Energy.


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## toneman (Oct 23, 2007)

To be fair, no one should assume that consumer-grade UPS units and "industrial"-grade ones (i.e., ones used in commercial environments) perform exactly the same. There is nothing absolutely wrong with using a UPS unit that works by powering devices off of battery only when AC power is not detected; my point was that if you wanted to be absolutely sure that your electronic device doesn't suffer from any type of power interruption when an AC outage occurs, your best bet is to not rely on such a UPS.

I can pretty much promise you that servers in most big-company commercial environments are not connected to a UPS (or, to an outlet that is wired into a circuit that is protected by UPS) that switches over to battery only during a power outage. Granted, a device such as a DVR would never be considered a mission-critical device...so I don't think anyone's gonna lose sleep because their DVR lost power for the 10 ms or so (I can pretty much bet many cheaper UPS units take quite a bit longer than that) it takes for their UPS to switch over to battery while in the middle of recording the Super Bowl, thus possibly causing the recording to either terminate prematurely or become corrupted.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

toneman said:


> ...so I don't think anyone's gonna lose sleep because their DVR lost power for the 10 ms or so (I can pretty much bet many cheaper UPS units take quite a bit longer than that) it takes for their UPS to switch over to battery while in the middle of recording the Super Bowl, thus possibly causing the recording to either terminate prematurely or become corrupted.


Well, my APC UPS must be considered as a more reliable and expensive UPS because I have Never experienced one Reboot on account of a Power Outage and I have seen the lights flicker in my kitchen as I was watching TV in my Den and none of my DVRs Rebooted which is One of the reasons why I bought expensive and more reliable UPS Units so I wouldn't have a Reboot during a Football Game or a Golf Tournament, etc.

Also, Automatic Voltage Regulation is better for Electronic Devices because they don't like Voltage Fluctuation and Clean Power also delivers better Audio and Video.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

If anyone is considering a Cyberpower brand UPS, I just picked one up from Costco for $90. I couldn't pass it up for that price. It's the CP1350AVRLCD model. From what I've seen this model sells for considerably more online.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a great deal.

Cheers,
Tom


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## toneman (Oct 23, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, my APC UPS must be considered as a more reliable and expensive UPS because I have Never experienced one Reboot on account of a Power Outage and I have seen the lights flicker in my kitchen as I was watching TV in my Den and none of my DVRs Rebooted which is One of the reasons why I bought expensive and more reliable UPS Units so I wouldn't have a Reboot during a Football Game or a Golf Tournament, etc.
> 
> Also, Automatic Voltage Regulation is better for Electronic Devices because they don't like Voltage Fluctuation and Clean Power also delivers better Audio and Video.


Not disputing/questioning as to whether the particular model of UPS you're running is reliable and/or robust, but to offer that it must be considered as such based in part from seeing the lights flicker in your kitchen...I'll just say this--one, unless your kitchen lights are wired into a UPS, of course they'll flicker at the first sign of any power interruption...and two, your typical light fixture isn't and shouldn't be compared to a complex piece of electronic equipment. Some electronic devices/equipment/whatnot are more sensitive than others when it comes to power interruptions and thus, it would be more noticeable to see what happens when power is interrupted to them...and I would imagine a light bulb would easily fall under that category. Plus I might reckon that more than a few electronic devices may have capacitors built into them that can hold just enough juice so as to withstand minor power fluctuations.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

All I am saying is that I used to live in another part of Atlanta that had daily outages and my VCR was always flashing so I knew that I had a Power Outage and could never rely on it for recording purposes until I put a UPS on it.

Now I live in an area of Atlanta that gets lots of storms during the summer months and I never have DVR Reboots because of my UPS units so I am happy that it has solved that problem and also is better for my expensive electronics in terms of voltage regulation, clean power, surge protection, etc.

I definitely recommend it to anyone who can afford what I have and if not then buy whatever you can afford to allow you protection and clean power and voltage regulation and battery backup so you can prevent instant power outages which are bad for any device with a hard drive such as a DVR or PC.

Plus I don't miss part of a football game or golf tournanment or whatever because my DVR had a momentary loss of power and decided to reboot.

I have 2 APC S15s, 1 APC J15 and 2 ES750 Units. If my DVRs were to Reboot before I bought the APC UPS Units it was normally caused by a minor outage of 1 to 2 seconds. 

Thankfully, I no longer have that problem.


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## Bajanjack (Oct 22, 2006)

I have a 15kw back up generator (which has been on since last Saturday due to our freak snow storm here in NJ.) The generator comes on within 60 seconds of a power outage. Can I assume that I can buy a lower capacity UPS for my DVRs? Any suggestions?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

APC


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I have an Cyberpower and a APC. Both are in the 400/500VA range and work fine. The Cyberpower was bought at Frys and the APC was bought for $6.00 at a thrift store. The APC battery was dead as expected so I got a new one for $20.00 and the APC was as good as new.
You can get a new UPS on sale at FRYS for about the cost of a Battery so it depends on how fast you want to get the system on a UPS
SSTV


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## Valve1138 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bajanjack said:


> I have a 15kw back up generator (which has been on since last Saturday due to our freak snow storm here in NJ.) The generator comes on within 60 seconds of a power outage. Can I assume that I can buy a lower capacity UPS for my DVRs? Any suggestions?


You sure can, since you only need to keep things on until the generator fires up.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

Bajanjack said:


> I have a 15kw back up generator (which has been on since last Saturday due to our freak snow storm here in NJ.) The generator comes on within 60 seconds of a power outage. Can I assume that I can buy a lower capacity UPS for my DVRs? Any suggestions?


Yes, you can.
I too have a 15kw backup generator (had it for four years... since I installed it I've had NO power failures  -- go figure).
I have APS UPS units for each of my DVRs... they keep the DVRs running for the 60-90 seconds that it takes for the generator to start.
When the power comes back on, the generator resets itself to standby so fast that the UPS units aren't even used in the switchover!


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## Bajanjack (Oct 22, 2006)

"SFNSXguy" said:


> Yes, you can.
> I too have a 15kw backup generator (had it for four years... since I installed it I've had NO power failures  -- go figure).
> I have APS UPS units for each of my DVRs... they keep the DVRs running for the 60-90 seconds that it takes for the generator to start.
> When the power comes back on, the generator resets itself to standby so fast that the UPS units aren't even used in the switchover!


Thanks! The same thing happened - I've had it for 10 years and almost no power failures- but then.....6 days of no power- the "fun" ended after the first day! Anyway, can you tell me what size units you got?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If you are just looking for an APC UPS go to their website and find out what you need based on what you will be hooking up to the UPS.

I have an ES450 and 2 ES750 units on my HR24-500s and also plugging other things into it.


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## Bajanjack (Oct 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> If you are just looking for an APC UPS go to their website and find out what you need based on what you will be hooking up to the UPS.
> 
> I have an ES450 and 2 ES750 units on my HR24-500s and also plugging other things into it.


Good suggestion, thanks


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