# 921 & firewire



## krazy k (Apr 27, 2003)

the buying point for me is when dish turns on the firewire output jack on the 921. if you have a firewire then you can go record true hd to dvhs tape and also have digital sound even 5.1 on tape.
When dish gets there act together and does something right for a change, they will get the 999. out of my pocket.
Firewire, Firewire, Firewire
clark Kent Krazy :grin:


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

Let me start, by saying, "to each their own". But I really don't understand this desire to archive TV. Yes, there may be a rare few; but how many TV shows do you ever want to see again. My LD and DVD collection is limited to Musicals and Comedys, with a very few special (IMHO) adventure disks. Why put anything on tape, that will eventually deteriorate. The only time I dig into my disk collection, is when the repeat season arrives, and there is nothing new on TV.

My interest is in time shifting and recording, when I am not at home. like I said, "To each their own"; but I don't understand.


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## moooog (May 10, 2002)

DVHS tapes are digital, so I don't understand all the worry about deterioration. Isn't it an "Either Or" situation? Much like digital satellite reception? If the tape deteriorates to the point that it is unreadable, then you would have nothing - but up to then and as long as the tape is readable, wouldn't the picture quality be equal to the quality at the time of recording? I understand that tape can be damaged, but DVD's can be cracked, scratched, damaged by players etc. - I rent from Netlfix, and I get unreadable DVD's on a consistent basis. Additionally, DVHS tapes are of a higher quality than any other tape made, more than SVHS, and much higher than standard VHS tapes. If you record at the highest quality rate, it seems to me that a digital tape will be good for at least the lifetime of the person who recorded it. I just figure degradation and decomposition over time of an Analog tape is more of a problem than with a digital bit rate type recording. This is just my guess, am I wrong?


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

What you say about DVHS tapes is probably true, as far as picture quality. Although I would not expect them to be as durable as DVDs. Anyway, it's really the archiving thing, that I don't understand. How much of TV programming is worth saving?


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

clapple said:


> What you say about DVHS tapes is probably true, as far as picture quality. Although I would not expect them to be as durable as DVDs. Anyway, it's really the archiving thing, that I don't understand. How much of TV programming is worth saving?


Not much. Unless it is a movie channel, then you have to put up with commercials. If it is a movie channel, more than likely the archive bit will be set on the show and you won't beable to record it anyways. I all I want is the ability to time shift the program and record one while watching another. Give me that and I'll be happy.

Ken


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

>> I all I want is the ability to time shift the program and record one while watching another. Give me that and I'll be happy. <<

Me too.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Our VCR sits dusty and nearly ignored. Little on tv is worth saving and most in rerun perpetually.


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## krazy k (Apr 27, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> Our VCR sits dusty and nearly ignored. Little on tv is worth saving and most in rerun perpetually.


i think you guys misunderstood me, i want to record true hd to tape you cant do that with s vhs cable, 
that,s why i bought a dvhs hdef recorder to tape high def, fire wire output is not for everyone that i understand.
when dish turns on that out put they will get my money out of my pocket,
but i dont want to be a beta buyer at the same time like my 721.
CLark Krazy Kent :nono2:


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

I'd love to get Star Wars (and some other movies) archived in HD (it might be years before we get it on HD-DVD). There are many possibilities for the copy-protect flags.

One rumor is that Premium channels will be flagged copy once (you'll make a copy and the source will be auto-deleted). The PPV may be copy-never (can also be time-limited on the hard drive - ouch).

I'm resisting DVHS. Obviously, I'd rather have HD-DVD. I'd probably splurge if they'd add DVI and 8VSB to the thing.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

FYI: Star Wars DVDs (Original Trillogy) due out Nov 2004.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

KrazyK, I'm with you all the way, I have a JVC 30K and want firewire out also. DVHS tapes are prone to droupouts just like normal tape, but currently I am downrezzing my 6000 HD via S-Video to the JVC and the playback on my 110" diagonal screen is just as good as a DVD. I really wish Dish would have put firewire in the 811, I may just have to breakdown and purchase a cheap Sammy for OTA archiving.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Cyclone said:


> FYI: Star Wars DVDs (Original Trillogy) due out Nov 2004.


I wonder if there will be any sign of HD DVD by then...

Every time I buy a DVD and throw out the Laser Disc, I cringe thinking that 3 years from now I'll be buying HD-DVD and throwing out SD-DVD... :scratch:


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Here's a thread on the HDDVD standard that was just adopted.


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## EatingPie (Apr 22, 2003)

My ONLY reason for considering Dish is Firewire -> D-VHS. I can't tell you how bummed I was when I first heard the 921 shipped with it disabled. D'oh.

I also find it a bit disingenuous to pooh-pooh archiving simply because "time shifting meets my needs." This is the most useless type of reply (kinda like the "it works for me" response when starting a bug report thread).

I'm a movie watcher at heart, and hate most TV shows. I pine for HD recordable HBO / Showtime / Cinemax. Imagine owning HD versions of
Star Wars: AotC and Star Trek First Contact. If Dish enabled firewire out, you could! That's a damn good argument for archiving right there... not to mention all the other movies that are being shown in HD... with the number increasing as more movie channels come on line.

-Pie


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## moooog (May 10, 2002)

Everything you have just said could have been written by me, I have the exact same archiving interests and hardware/technology interests as you do - so no pooh-poohing from me. As far as I'm concerned, all TV shows stink, and I can't see that they rise much above the level of soap operas. I watch Letterman and the Simpsons on occasion, as well as the 3 major sports and cable news, but archiving my favorite motion pictures is my top priority - has anyone heard of the word "collector" before? If you get a large enough collection of your favorites, you have a solid library of what you like to watch that you can rotate through - and can watch exactly when you want to. Quality is of the utmost importance to me (for recordings), so I am pretty excited about the firewire on the 921. My wife loves PVR's, and I like them for sports - but they only hold so much.


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## John McCutcheon (Jun 17, 2003)

It looks like many of us are in the same boat, I just want to be able to record HD movies, too. Why did they decide not to put Firewire on the 811? I have no use for the 921 except the Firewire output. The difference in price between the 811 and the 921 makes it an $800 connector for me!


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

Guys, this is all moot considering the damn 921's still aren't out yet.......... C'mon Charlie get them out for sale already.... sheesh!


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

ocnier said:


> Guys, this is all moot considering the damn 921's still aren't out yet.......... C'mon Charlie get them out for sale already.... sheesh!


 It's even more moot because odds are you won't beable to record movies off HBO, SHO, etc. in HD because of the archive bit.

Ken


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## EatingPie (Apr 22, 2003)

kstevens said:


> It's even more moot because odds are you won't beable to record movies off HBO, SHO, etc. in HD because of the archive bit.


There's been nothing definitive on that at all, so it is not moot.

Dish has the only (mass market) product with movie channels and firewire. And if they want to capitalize on that fact (and sell more systems), they need to get the firewire enabled.

The 921 isn't even on the docket yet, you say? Ummmm... Please replace "has" with "will have, someday, maybe, not today though" in the previous paragraph...

-Pie


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

EatingPie said:


> There's been nothing definitive on that at all, so it is not moot.
> 
> Dish has the only (mass market) product with movie channels and firewire. And if they want to capitalize on that fact (and sell more systems), they need to get the firewire enabled.
> 
> ...


And if you think the riaa is going to let e* broadcase pay per view hd movies or or other pay service hd movies (hbo, sho, etc) in the clear, then I have some prime real-estate to sell you in southern florida 

Ken


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## EatingPie (Apr 22, 2003)

kstevens said:


> And if you think the riaa is going to let e* broadcase pay per view hd movies or or other pay service hd movies (hbo, sho, etc) in the clear, then I have some prime real-estate to sell you in southern florida


OOOoohhh.... I'll take that offer.

See, E* IS already broadcasting HBO and Showtime HD in the clear. All you need is Dish 5000 -> HD Modulator -> OTA STB with Firewire (or Mitsubishi TV) and you have it! I *almost* went this route back in June, but decided that the Superdish and 921 would be worth waiting for. Boy what a sucker I was.

Wait a sec, maybe I better pass on that real estate......

-Pie


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## TruePlayer (Nov 13, 2002)

I don't think a mitsubishi tv won't help you there.. If it does, somebody show me the way!! And I'll stop holding my breath for the 211..

I have a 6000, Mitsu with firewire, a computer pretending to be a DVHS vcr and I can't make the DVHS connection to the 6000 because it is an analog device. I can only record OTA.

If i had a 211 i could set my computer to be an AV disk, then i would have the functionality of a 508 with HD. If you could have two 211s connected that would theoretically be an expandable 921 at a fraction of the cost/bugs. I can see why the 211 isn't a priority...



EatingPie said:


> OOOoohhh.... I'll take that offer.
> 
> See, E* IS already broadcasting HBO and Showtime HD in the clear. All you need is Dish 5000 -> HD Modulator -> OTA STB with Firewire (or Mitsubishi TV) and you have it! I *almost* went this route back in June, but decided that the Superdish and 921 would be worth waiting for. Boy what a sucker I was.
> 
> ...


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## krazy k (Apr 27, 2003)

If e*** turns on firewire jack on the 921 problem solved, i should work for charlie , lest he would have a product that would be hd future ready!!!!
Klark Krazy 



TruePlayer said:


> I don't think a mitsubishi tv won't help you there.. If it does, somebody show me the way!! And I'll stop holding my breath for the 211..
> 
> I have a 6000, Mitsu with firewire, a computer pretending to be a DVHS vcr and I can't make the DVHS connection to the 6000 because it is an analog device. I can only record OTA.
> 
> If i had a 211 i could set my computer to be an AV disk, then i would have the functionality of a 508 with HD. If you could have two 211s connected that would theoretically be an expandable 921 at a fraction of the cost/bugs. I can see why the 211 isn't a priority...


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## EatingPie (Apr 22, 2003)

> I have a 6000, Mitsu with firewire, a computer pretending to be a DVHS vcr and I can't make the DVHS connection to the 6000 because it is an analog device. I can only record OTA.


You need the Dish 5000, not the 6000. The 5000 then needs to run to the HD Modulator, whose output is *then* plugged into the Mitsubishi's Digital Cable Input. Tune your Mitsubishi to whatever channel the Modulator is running to, and there you have it.

I have not actually done this, so I am repeating information. If you want the real deal, you probably should search on "Dish 5000 Modulator" or something like that. From what I understand, though, this only gives you HBO and Showtime, and will stop working once stuff gets moved around.

-Pie


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## TruePlayer (Nov 13, 2002)

ahh.. 
That makes sense. thanks.



EatingPie said:


> You need the Dish 5000, not the 6000. The 5000 then needs to run to the HD Modulator, whose output is *then* plugged into the Mitsubishi's Digital Cable Input. Tune your Mitsubishi to whatever channel the Modulator is running to, and there you have it.
> 
> I have not actually done this, so I am repeating information. If you want the real deal, you probably should search on "Dish 5000 Modulator" or something like that. From what I understand, though, this only gives you HBO and Showtime, and will stop working once stuff gets moved around.
> 
> -Pie


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