# Customer Service-Tech Support-Unsupported MRV



## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

My new HR24's are up and running. One of the HR22's that was replaced was my primary receiver. After the conversion Whole Home was turned off so I had to call back to enable again. 

The CSR insisted I need DECA, I explained in clear English I would like unsupported Whole Home MRV. He acted dumb and still said I need DECA. Then my tone changed and I explained the whole setup again and he turned it on, although then came the attitude from him. 

As far as I see here DECA is a mess, I don't need it, want it. I lose no connectivity between any of my equipment period. I get a headache reading the problems subs post here...I commend all who help those in need and those who have helped me from dbstalk. 

All I can say about the HR24's is very nice!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm glad you're fine with your unsupported networking.
As with most topics, only those with issues/problems seem to post, so reading the "problems" doesn't give anyone the true status of how anything works or doesn't.
I've had DECA for over a year and it's been basically bulletproof, so I'd recommend it to anybody.
Over time I'm sure the installers will understand it better, but yes the initial rollout has had training problems.
From all the threads I've read, and I don't think I've missed too many here, the main "wild card" has been problems with routers. Since this is the one piece of the puzzle DirecTV has no control over, I'm not sure how they can know all the models and required settings for each one.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

MRV packets do NOT pass through the router and blaming MRV problems on routers is, at best, a red herring.

If an internet connection is needed for D*oD or TVApps (it is NOT necessary for MRV), a router is almost certainly necessary for either DECA or Ethernet to handle LAN IP addressing.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I have to agree with VOS here. DECA is a great system, in the end I expect far fewer issues from a DECA system than from an unsupported ethernet system. But it does seem that you got what you wanted, right?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> MRV packets do NOT pass through the router and blaming MRV problems on routers is, at best, a red herring.
> 
> If an internet connection is needed for D*oD or TVApps (it is NOT necessary for MRV), a router is almost certainly necessary for either DECA or Ethernet to handle LAN IP addressing.


It isn't the MRV packets that are the problem, but instead, if you've read the posts of those with problems, is the IP addresses handled by the router that have been problems with it causing receivers to drop off the network.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Barry in Conyers said:


> MRV packets do NOT pass through the router and blaming MRV problems on routers is, at best, a red herring.
> 
> If an internet connection is needed for D*oD or TVApps (it is NOT necessary for MRV), a router is almost certainly necessary for either DECA or Ethernet to handle LAN IP addressing.


Several issues have been corrected related to addressing DHCP address assignment from routers and addressing router reboots.

It is NOT a red herring when you look at what a home router does for the network. So - do routers cause problems on DECA physical layer? No. Do routers act as a component of a DECA network when attached? Yes. Has that component been involved/responsible for MRV disconnects and other issues? Yes.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> It isn't the MRV packets that are the problem, but instead, if you've read the posts of those with problems, is the IP addresses handled by the router that have been problems with it causing receivers to drop off the network.


I have read the posts, that is NOT the issue.

Please explain how you are going to connect either a DECA or Ethernet system to the internet without using a router unless you have a dedicated internet connection just for D*oD and TVApps.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I have read the posts, that is NOT the issue.
> 
> Please explain how you are going to connect either a DECA or Ethernet system to the internet without using a router unless you have a dedicated internet connection just for D*oD and TVApps.


Huh?
Several problems have been resolved by changing the receivers to Static IP addresses instead of using the routers DHCP.

All VOS (and I) are saying is that there is interplay here, and it is not inherently a "DECA" problem. No one is assigning blame... just responding to the OP comments that DECA is a nightmare and pointing out its really not.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

IMO, this is definitely a YMMV issue.

I purchased Powerline Adapters for the testing of the MRV functionality while it was still in the CE program and before it was otherwise opened for Beta testing. My Powerline's worked pretty well. However when MRV became Whole Home as it was removed from Beta status and into paid status I noticed that my particular system didn't seem to be working as well. I held out for three weeks before biting the bullet and having the ICK and other DECA units installed. That solved the problems for me. YMMV.

I did manage to get the upgrade for about $76.00 by ordering the ICK. The CSR, upon hearing this, stopped trying to tell me it would be $150.00+ for the DECA's. In my case the $76.00 got me: an new antenna /w alignment, three DECA's and the ICK.

It worked out well for me, but YMMV.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

BudShark said:


> Huh?
> Several problems have been resolved by changing the receivers to Static IP addresses instead of using the routers DHCP.
> 
> All VOS (and I) are saying is that there is interplay here, and it is not inherently a "DECA" problem. No one is assigning blame... just responding to the OP comments that DECA is a nightmare and pointing out its really not.


I completely agree that "it is not inherently a DECA problem", but it seems to me that some people are deliberately implying that DECA would be fine if not for router problems and that is BS.

In the real world, the vast majority of both DECA and Ethernet MRV systems are going to be connected to the internet (for D*oD and TVApps) through a router.

Neither DECA nor Ethernet MRV systems are going to work correctly unless the LAN IP addressing is correct. Implying that routers cause more problems for DECA than for Ethernet MRV systems is, *AT BEST*, a red herring.

For the record, I have used both DECA and Ethernet with both DHCP and fixed addresses for MRV, D*oD and TVApps with no connection problems.

Not what D* says or what I read somewhere, just my *experience*; YMMV.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I have read the posts, that is NOT the issue.
> 
> Please explain how you are going to connect either a DECA or Ethernet system to the internet without using a router unless you have a dedicated internet connection just for D*oD and TVApps.


I'd say the strongest point is that those with receivers dropping off line, have had ZERO issues when the home network/router has been removed from the DECA network.
My 2Wire router has given me ZERO problems, but some other users and their routers have and as BudShark posted, these seems to be DHCP IP related, which is the router's function, right?


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I completely agree that "it is not inherently a DECA problem", but it seems to me that some people are deliberately implying that DECA would be fine if not for router problems and that is BS.
> 
> In the real world, the vast majority of both DECA and Ethernet MRV systems are going to be connected to the internet (for D*oD and TVApps) through a router.
> 
> ...


Just a misunderstanding. I don't think anyone meant or has implied that DECA would be 100%. All technology has strengths, weaknesses, and failures.

DECA works well in a lot more installations than not.
Ethernet will also work well for those who want to use it.
And in the end - regardless of choice, you have MRV which is something we all wanted. :grin:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BudShark said:


> Just a misunderstanding. I don't think anyone meant or has implied that DECA would be 100%. All technology has strengths, weaknesses, and failures.
> 
> DECA works well in a lot more installations than not.
> Ethernet will also work well for those who want to use it.
> And in the end - regardless of choice, you have MRV which is something we all wanted. :grin:


Maybe I was since I posted mine was "bulletproof", but my router also plays nice.
The real point I was trying to make is what seems to be the most common problem of late, has been related to how the customer's router does or doesn't handle DHCP for the receivers.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe I was since I posted my was "bulletproof", but my router also plays nice.
> The real point I was trying to make is what seems to be the most common problem of late, has been related to how the customer's router does or doesn't handle DHCP for the receivers.


What I meant to say is no one implied DECA would be 100% without the router... there will inherently be installation and hardware failures with any technology.

But... once up and running I would expect any technology to be solid.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BudShark said:


> What I meant to say is no one implied DECA would be 100% without the router... there will inherently be installation and hardware failures with any technology.
> 
> But... once up and running I would expect any technology to be solid.


This simply might come down to who wants to do what.
Supported is good if you don't want to mess with anything and unsupported is fine if you want to support/mess with it yourself.
I have no problems going either way. Ethernet worked fine as does my own installed DECA.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I'd say the strongest point is that those with receivers dropping off line, have had ZERO issues when the home network/router has been removed from the DECA network.
> My 2Wire router has given me ZERO problems, but some other users and their routers have and as BudShark posted, these seems to be DHCP IP related, which is the router's function, right?


A router's function is to handle LAN IP addressing, either DHCP or fixed as the user prefers. The main requirement is that each device on the network is assigned a unique IP address and that the router and the client devices "remember" those addresses. Whether the addresses are manually (aka "fixed") or automatically (aka DHCP) assigned is a moot point as long as the hardware is working correctly.

As stated, I have successfully used DECA and Ethernet with both DHCP and fixed LAN addressing for MRV, D*oD and TVApps. On my system (all Hx-24), all combinations appear to work equally well.

I have a complex LAN with (today) 15 client devices (including 2 HR-24's and 1 H-24) and have never experienced a LAN IP address issue that was not self inflicted (several of those, but .....) using either fixed or DHCP addressing.

If you insist, I will concede the possibility DirecTV receivers (and DVR's) cannot reliably handle DHCP addressing, but that seems like an absurd situation / assumption and does not match what I have seen.

*Think about the tech support issues if DirecTV hardware cannot reliably handle DHCP LAN addressing.*


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Barry in Conyers said:


> A router's function is to handle LAN IP addressing, either DHCP or fixed as the user prefers. The main requirement is that each device on the network is assigned a unique IP address and that the router and the client devices "remember" those addresses. Whether the addresses are manually (aka "fixed") or automatically (aka DHCP) assigned is a moot point as long as the hardware is working correctly.
> 
> As stated, I have successfully used DECA and Ethernet with both DHCP and fixed LAN addressing for MRV, D*oD and TVApps. On my system (all Hx-24), all combinations appear to work equally well.
> 
> ...


If you read the failure reports, as you say that you have, then you would know that the daily/frequent loss of MRV was corrected by changing the DirecTV receivers to static assigned addresses at the box, and removing the DHCP functions from the equation. Whether the router was incorrectly handling DHCP requests, it was confused by the Broadband DECA, or DirecTV in those particular cases had a problem :shrug: who knows... not really our concern.

The point is without the router assigning DHCP addresses, it worked. With the router assigning DHCP addresses, it didn't. Period.

The users are fixed and happy. It doesn't affect anyone but them so lets smile and all be happy that we can use either DECA or Ethernet and watch our shows. :grin:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> If you insist, I will concede the possibility DirecTV receivers (and DVR's) cannot reliably handle DHCP addressing, but that seems like an absurd situation / assumption and does not match what I have seen.
> 
> *Think about the tech support issues if DirecTV hardware cannot reliably handle DHCP LAN addressing.*


:bang
If you have followed those with IP issues and their routers were causing this, you'd see some of this seemed to be related to the DHCP leasing, as they'd work, but time out [some being every 24 hours].
I'm not sure I could blame the receivers for this, since they are working fine here with auto, DHCP, no reserved IPs, etc.
Not everyone is using the same routers. We hear about those with problems, not those that are truly "plug & play", as mine seems to be.
[again] those that have had issues, have been able to remove the router from the network, have the receiver use their own IP and not have any problems.


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

I, for one, have converted from a rock-solid gigE switch to Deca. I have found Deca to be reliable and fast. No issues at all, reboot one receiver, all, use MRV, download VOD, whatever. Flawless.

My gigE switch performed as well, no worse or better than DECA. But I save ports on my switch and also save myself from running another line of CAT6 to my new receiver.

Not a nightmare at all!


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Let's see if I understand this correctly. Router works fine using DHCP with all devices EXCEPT DirecTV receivers & DVR's, so the router must be the problem.

Makes perfect sense!


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Let's see if I understand this correctly. Router works fine using DHCP with all devices EXCEPT DirecTV receivers & DVR's, so the router must be the problem.
> 
> Makes perfect sense!


Then again, the DirecTV receivers and DVRs work fine using DHCP for most people, except for those few routers, so the DirecTV boxes must be the problem?

Obviously their is an incompatability in some situations. We'd have to know a lot more than we do if we wanted to "place blame". And placing blame is, in most cases, less important that getting someone working.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

DogLover said:


> Then again, the DirecTV receivers and DVRs work fine using DHCP for most people, except for those few routers, so the DirecTV boxes must be the problem?
> 
> Obviously their is an incompatability in some situations. We'd have to know a lot more than we do if we wanted to "place blame". And placing blame is, in most cases, less important that getting someone working.


^^^ Excellent answer.

Ethernet works. DECA works. DECA is supported and will provide you with DirecTV support. Either will get you support at DBSTalk.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Let's see if I understand this correctly. Router works fine using DHCP with all devices EXCEPT DirecTV receivers & DVR's, so the router must be the problem.
> 
> Makes perfect sense!


If there is an answer, it's that MRV hasn't been tested with EVERY router EVER made, so DECA, while being "neutral" is being installed in more and more homes which is finding routers that don't play nice.
I don't think I've read where someone converted their DECA over to Ethernet and "cured" the problem, so nobody knows how the same router would handle the problem with ethernet.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

DogLover said:


> Then again, the DirecTV receivers and DVRs work fine using DHCP for most people, except for those few routers, so the DirecTV boxes must be the problem?
> 
> Obviously their is an incompatability in some situations. We'd have to know a lot more than we do if we wanted to "place blame". And placing blame is, in most cases, less important that getting someone working.


Where have I placed any blame? I specifically stated that my DirecTV hardware has worked with every combination of DECA / Ethernet / DHCP / fixed addresses for MRV, D*oD and TVApps that I have tried.

You (and others) appear to have concluded that MRV / D*oD / TVApps problems are caused by incompatibility between DirecTV hardware and some routers, so how about posting a list of routers that cannot be used.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Where have I placed any blame? I specifically stated that my DirecTV hardware has worked with every combination of DECA / Ethernet / DHCP / fixed addresses for MRV, D*oD and TVApps that I have tried.
> 
> You (and others) appear to have concluded that MRV / D*oD / TVApps problems are caused by incompatibility between DirecTV hardware and some routers, so how about posting a list of routers that cannot be used.


Not to be stinky, but why don't you search just this forum for the list.
"We" now know the settings to change for those with the problem.
As with your router, mine too works just fine.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Where have I placed any blame? I specifically stated that my DirecTV hardware has worked with every combination of DECA / Ethernet / DHCP / fixed addresses for MRV, D*oD and TVApps that I have tried.


Well, when you wrote the following, it did appear sarcastic. From the sarcasm, I did infer that you were placing blame. If I have misunderstood you, I appologize.



Barry in Conyers said:


> Let's see if I understand this correctly. Router works fine using DHCP with all devices EXCEPT DirecTV receivers & DVR's, so the router must be the problem.
> 
> Makes perfect sense!





Barry in Conyers said:


> You (and others) appear to have concluded that MRV / D*oD / TVApps problems are caused by incompatibility between DirecTV hardware and some routers, so how about posting a list of routers that cannot be used.


I guess I didn't explain myself very well. We don't know if there is a blanket incompatibility with certain routers. We just know that specific people have problems in their specific set up. Taking the router out of the loop fixes the problem, but obviously limits functionality. That's what I mean by incompatibility.

As VOS mentioned, if those of us at DBSTalk can get the people working, we don't necessarily try other options that might give us more information to determine whether there is a blanket incompatiblity, or just an incompatibility in that specific installation.

Perhaps over time we might see a pattern with a particular type of router, but then again, we may not.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DogLover said:


> As VOS mentioned, if those of us at DBSTalk can get the people working, we don't necessarily try other options that might give us more information to determine whether there is a blanket incompatiblity, or just an incompatibility in that specific installation.
> 
> Perhaps over time we might see a pattern with a particular type of router, but then again, we may not.


I haven't done a count of those with problems and have come here for help, but "I'd guess" we're talking about 6-12 members so far. One simply had a bad DECA bridging the router.


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

FWIW, I haven't made the switch over to DECA yet with MRV. I purchased a 24 port Netgear gigabit switch (GS724T) to handle all the "traffic." In a couple rooms with multiple DVRs I have 4 and 8 port gigabit switches. As of now MRV is running very well. Playback is smooth. Trick play works nicely. Since I have a SWM setup, if things start to give me problems I'll call DirecTV and make the switch to DECA. No need to do that yet.

I do have occasional situations where one of the DVRs playlist doesn't show up but that seems to correct itself.

I am looking forward to some upgrades in the MRV software itself, like being able to select which playlists to consolidate instead of all or local.

MRV is the best thing that has happened to DirecTV since they brought on HD.


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