# Vod & Directv



## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

With the supposed VOD solution impending, it seems to me if DirecTV plans on pushing VOD out to the masses, they will need a user-friendly wireless solution. Most people aren't able to hard-wire a Cat5 line from there router if they have one to their HR20. Assuming DTV would like more than a small percentage of its user base to actually use VOD (if/when it arrives), the only viable option for DirecTV is to sell a proprietary USB wireless adapter for $20 or less, maybe with coupons for VOD pay-per-view movies.

With that said, I hope DTV has the tech support to answer the barrage of networking questions that will arise from VOD installations. 

"Why is it asking for a password?," What is WPA?, What is an IP address? I didn't have to do this with cable, why isn't is just working?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Expect to see some sort of ethernet over power solution as an alternative to running cat5 to the receivers.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Expect to see some sort of ethernet over power solution as an alternative to running cat5 to the receivers.


I agree that is a good solution. But, the cost of the POE equipment may need to come down a little before it becomes mainstream. Also, the speed transmission rates will vary depending on the quality of wiring in the house. More variables = more calls to customer support.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

davidord said:


> Assuming DTV would like more than a small percentage of its user base to actually use VOD (if/when it arrives), the only viable option for DirecTV is to sell a proprietary USB wireless adapter for $20 or less, maybe with coupons for VOD pay-per-view movies.


Not even TIVO sells their usb wireless adapter that cheap - it's like $50 +/-



> With that said, I hope DTV has the tech support to answer the barrage of networking questions that will arise from VOD installations.
> 
> "Why is it asking for a password?," What is WPA?, What is an IP address? I didn't have to do this with cable, why isn't is just working?


Even with the wireless adapter, you still need to know your network ID, password, WPA and MAC address depending on your settings.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

davidord said:


> With that said, I hope DTV has the tech support to answer the barrage of networking questions that will arise from VOD installations.
> 
> "Why is it asking for a password?," What is WPA?, What is an IP address? I didn't have to do this with cable, why isn't is just working?


And that right there is one the #1 reasons NOT to include a wireless hookup, or device... and going the route of the "game adapter" or the over the power line.

If they do decided to go that route... then yes... they are going to have to have a support mechanism setup for that.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And that right there is one the #1 reasons NOT to include a wireless hookup, or device... and going the route of the "game adapter" or the over the power line.
> 
> If they do decided to go that route... then yes... they are going to have to have a support mechanism setup for that.


Earl,

On the positive side for DirecTV there is incremental revenue tied to VoD. That will probably have them do something to make it as easy as possible for their customers to connect to the net.

My guess is they'll develop a networking package and work with a 3rd party install group (Geek Team/Fire Dog, etc) for a very low fee and an increased time commitment on the customer's existing contract.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

say-what said:


> Not even TIVO sells their usb wireless adapter that cheap - it's like $50 +/-
> 
> Even with the wireless adapter, you still need to know your network ID, password, WPA and MAC address depending on your settings.


Here's a Belkin Wireless USB adapter for $19.99. So, I think if DTV wanted to get VOD in the hands of its users it could/should do the same.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833314011


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

davidord said:


> Here's a Belkin Wireless USB adapter for $19.99. So, I think if DTV wanted to get VOD in the hands of its users it could/should do the same.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833314011


I was talking about the branded unit. Sure there are other options, but regardless of the option, they still have configuration issues regarding your at home network.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Earl,
> 
> On the positive side for DirecTV there is incremental revenue tied to VoD. That will probably have them do something to make it as easy as possible for their customers to connect to the net.
> 
> My guess is they'll develop a networking package and work with a 3rd party install group (Geek Team/Fire Dog, etc) for a very low fee and an increased time commitment on the customer's existing contract.


The Best Buy/Circuit City install group sounds like a good idea. If DirecTV wants over I'd guess a 5 percent penetration with VOD, they will need to implement a wireless or POE solution. Simple is better for DirecTV and the consumer.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Earl,
> 
> On the positive side for DirecTV there is incremental revenue tied to VoD. That will probably have them do something to make it as easy as possible for their customers to connect to the net.
> 
> My guess is they'll develop a networking package and work with a 3rd party install group (Geek Team/Fire Dog, etc) for a very low fee and an increased time commitment on the customer's existing contract.


While yes....

If the times comes that they start to expand out to more wireless solutions, for the "non-geeks" out there, that can't help themselves...

I really do see them partnering with someone, other then local installers.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

say-what said:


> I was talking about the branded unit. Sure there are other options, but regardless of the option, they still have configuration issues regarding your at home network.


My point from the link is the hardware costs are actually low. I think DirecTV would be making a huge mistake if they tried to support multiple USB adapters (driver issues, etc.)

Configuration Issues: I agree with that statement as well. The question is how does DirecTV push VOD to the masses assuming most people do not have a CAT 5 connection behind their TV set?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

davidord said:


> My point from the link is the hardware costs are actually low. I think DirecTV would be making a huge mistake if they tried to support multiple USB adapters (driver issues, etc.)
> 
> Configuration Issues: I agree with that statement as well. The question is how does DirecTV push VOD to the masses assuming most people do not have a CAT 5 connection behind their TV set?


99.999% if they decide to include a wirless adapter... it would be one that is "branded", and be the only one supported...

They absolutly will not want the mess that TiVo had on their hands, when different sub-versions of the same model device... didn't work (I had to go to 5 different stores, to find one that was the right sub-version).

When is "N" standard, supposed to be locked down....
It is possible that they may want to wait, until this latest generation of device is locked down, before going that route (purely my speculation... this last part about "N")


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> 99.999% if they decide to include a wirless adapter... it would be one that is "branded", and be the only one supported...
> 
> They absolutly will not want the mess that TiVo had on their hands, when different sub-versions of the same model device... didn't work (I had to go to 5 different stores, to find one that was the right sub-version).
> 
> ...


September 2008 is the last I read about "N" being locked down. That may be a little long to wait for DirecTV. But, the added range and speed of N may be worth it.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

I heard somewhere that D* has tried having authorized support centers in BBs in the past , so if they were to partner with anyone, it'd probably be Geek Squad.


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## Vor (Jul 5, 2007)

davidord said:


> wireless or POE solution.


You mean "EOP". "POE" is Power over Ethernet, as in "networked device powered by the network switch over the ethernet cable".


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

PoitNarf said:


> Expect to see some sort of ethernet over power solution as an alternative to running cat5 to the receivers.


Ethernet over power is a bad choice of terms. The correct term is HomePlug.

I did a double take as I thought you were suggesting using "Power over Ethernet" (PoE).

The problems with HomePlug is that it is relatively expensive and it demands most of the same complicated security configuration that WiFi does.


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## Zellster (Aug 3, 2007)

Vor said:


> You mean "EOP". "POE" is Power over Ethernet, as in "networked device powered by the network switch over the ethernet cable".


I was going to chime in with the same observation. I've been lurking here for a while and now I'm exposed. :eek2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

:welcome_s to DBSTalk... at least outed


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

I actually just went out and bought a second linksys wireless router($49 - Best Buy), loaded some free thirdparty code on to it, that has a "bridging" mode, and just wired the HR20 via ethernet cable, and my older TIVO based hacked DVR40. the wireless router sets behind my A/V equipment. Works great, the HR20, and DVR40(now a DVR400) think they are hardwired to the network, and the speed is good.

dave


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

Since they have already entered the networking world with mediashare and soon VOD should they train their installers to assist with this?????


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Mixer said:


> Since they have already entered the networking world with mediashare and soon VOD should they train their installers to assist with this?????


Is that retorical? or serious?

They are working on improving the installers and the SAT installation...
I don't see them going deep into the home networking aspects, any time soon.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

If D* sells a networking solution, they will have to also be able to arrange for installation. Be it through their existing network of installers or through another avenue. I feel that the existing network should be used as a first attempt. Maybe even offer a "self-install" option.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

judson_west said:


> If D* sells a networking solution, they will have to also be able to arrange for installation. Be it through their existing network of installers or through another avenue. I feel that the existing network should be used as a first attempt. Maybe even offer a "self-install" option.


Not necessarily.... they sell remotes with installation...


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

djousma said:


> I actually just went out and bought a second linksys wireless router($49 - Best Buy), loaded some free thirdparty code on to it, that has a "bridging" mode, and just wired the HR20 via ethernet cable, and my older TIVO based hacked DVR40. the wireless router sets behind my A/V equipment. Works great, the HR20, and DVR40(now a DVR400) think they are hardwired to the network, and the speed is good.
> 
> dave


What a great solution! So can you tell me some details on the firmware that was installed, like name of firmware, version, etc?


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

I hope this isn't off topic, if it is perhaps a mod could please move it, I'd appreciate it. I am very interested in getting VOD and networking my DVR's. 

I just purchased a Netgear Wireless-G router, model WGR614, I'm waiting on my two ethernet cables to arrive from monoprice. What I am posting about is, I am very nervous hoping I got the proper router for networking and VOD. I have DSL already and Windows Media Player version 11. 

PS. I ordered the router from Netgear's online store early yesterday morning and got it today via FedEx, didn't pay for quicker shipping or anything I thought that was impressive. Anyway thanks for any input on this router's suitability.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

MercurialIN said:


> I hope this isn't off topic, if it is perhaps a mod could please move it, I'd appreciate it. I am very interested in getting VOD and networking my DVR's.
> 
> I just purchased a Netgear Wireless-G router, model WGR614, I'm waiting on my two ethernet cables to arrive from monoprice. What I am posting about is, I am very nervous hoping I got the proper router for networking and VOD. I have DSL already and Windows Media Player version 11.
> 
> PS. I ordered the router from Netgear's online store early yesterday morning and got it today via FedEx, didn't pay for quicker shipping or anything I thought that was impressive. Anyway thanks for any input on this router's suitability.


If I remember correctly from your other posts. you plan on running a cable directly from the router to the HR20. If this is the case, you have nothing to worry about. Go to Windows Media Player, Tools, Library, allow the unknown device to access your media and you can stream music and photos from your HR20 to your TV.

And all VOD needs is an internet connection from the router. After the cable is plugged into the HR20 run the Network setup and you are good to go.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

MercurialIN said:


> I hope this isn't off topic, if it is perhaps a mod could please move it, I'd appreciate it. I am very interested in getting VOD and networking my DVR's.
> 
> I just purchased a Netgear Wireless-G router, model WGR614, I'm waiting on my two ethernet cables to arrive from monoprice. What I am posting about is, I am very nervous hoping I got the proper router for networking and VOD. I have DSL already and Windows Media Player version 11.
> 
> PS. I ordered the router from Netgear's online store early yesterday morning and got it today via FedEx, didn't pay for quicker shipping or anything I thought that was impressive. Anyway thanks for any input on this router's suitability.


This shoud work just fine. When you get all of it and you are ready to get it going, just drop in at the chat room. There will most likely be someone there that can walk you through any tough spots...


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## Dazed & Confused (Jun 13, 2007)

davidord said:


> September 2008 is the last I read about "N" being locked down. That may be a little long to wait for DirecTV. But, the added range and speed of N may be worth it.


At the risk of being picky, there really is no reason to wait for N. G is much faster than any broadband connection you can even dream of today. It is also unlikely you would see an appreciable range benefit within the confines of a home. They do have a better antennae setup, but the signal will still get bounced around the same way within the home. I suppose that N would do a better job of maintaining speed over the same home terrain, but once again G can already provide way more speed than you can feed it.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

It certainly is a matter of choice on "N" and "G". I find the range on my Linksys "N" fantastic and since I move a lot of pictures around in my local network, it has more than paid for itself. But it is true you may never need it!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

A related little nightmare is going to occur when someone buys a VoD that comes over the internet and someone else on their network is downloading other large files...especially if it's a =<1.5mbs connection. Two VoDs at the same time in the same household also come to mind as potentially being problematic.
I think D is going to have to think about packet prioritization at some time. 
They really have no choice but to do the majority of their library over the net...but it's going to cause its share of customer satisfaction issues. Cable/FIOS have a huge advantage in this area.
I wonder if D is considering regional server farms or outsourced download sites.
It'll be interesting to see how they attack the problems.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Dazed & Confused said:


> G can already provide way more speed than you can feed it.


Only if you completely discount internal transfers.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

davidord said:


> If I remember correctly from your other posts. you plan on running a cable directly from the router to the HR20. If this is the case, you have nothing to worry about. Go to Windows Media Player, Tools, Library, allow the unknown device to access your media and you can stream music and photos from your HR20 to your TV.
> 
> And all VOD needs is an internet connection from the router. After the cable is plugged into the HR20 run the Network setup and you are good to go.


You have a good memory, that is the way I am hoping to run it. I am having the guy that installed my attic antenna come out this week (Thu. hopefully if the cables arrive Wed as they're supposed to) and run the ethernet cables through my basement so I won't be tripping over them. Part of me wants to try the setup soon as the cables arrive but then I wonder if I should just wait until he can run the cables through the basement so they're set and I'll then only have to run set up once. You have been very helpful to me and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> This shoud work just fine. When you get all of it and you are ready to get it going, just drop in at the chat room. There will most likely be someone there that can walk you through any tough spots...


Thank you so much for the help. I was really nervous once I got the router, I kept wondering if it was the right kind of router for the job. You and so many others on this forum are so kind and so helpful I really appreciate it. Don't know what I'd do without you all, don't really have anyone around here that knows anything about this sort of stuff.


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

Spanky_Partain said:


> What a great solution! So can you tell me some details on the firmware that was installed, like name of firmware, version, etc?


Here is a link to a wiki page I used to get it working. the only thing the other firmware does is provide a client-bridge function that LINKSYS doesnt give you out of the box. Just read all the instructions carefully, noting the wireless router version number before starting.

Dave


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I just might try this as well. Thanks for the info!


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> A related little nightmare is going to occur when someone buys a VoD that comes over the internet and someone else on their network is downloading other large files...especially if it's a =<1.5mbs connection. Two VoDs at the same time in the same household also come to mind as potentially being problematic.
> I think D is going to have to think about packet prioritization at some time.
> They really have no choice but to do the majority of their library over the net...but it's going to cause its share of customer satisfaction issues. Cable/FIOS have a huge advantage in this area.
> I wonder if D is considering regional server farms or outsourced download sites.
> It'll be interesting to see how they attack the problems.


Another possible problem would be for those with VoIP. Depending on your pipe and how much D* sends, your VoIP connection could get scratchy.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bto4wd said:


> Another possible problem would be for those with VoIP. Depending on your pipe and how much D* sends, your VoIP connection could get scratchy.


Voice shouldn't be a huge problem...but if you start using a video client with it...there will be issues. There are software packet priority clients like CFos Speed...but since you can't run them on the HR20 they won't really help that much. Perhaps something router based will be necessary. Or the DirecTV downloads may end up being throttled either as a selection on the HR20, by DirecTV, or because of bandwidth issues from DirecTV.

We'll see...they have a lot of money riding on this working correctly...so I'm sure they'll come up with something.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> Another possible problem would be for those with VoIP. Depending on your pipe and how much D* sends, your VoIP connection could get scratchy.


Just get a router with QoS capability and bump up the priority on VoIP traffic.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

QoS only works if both ends are supporting it. Try explaining to the average consumer how to set up a router or switch support QoS.

Even then, the only way VOD will succeed (and when I say succeed I really mean to not further DTV's rep like the HR20 has) would be for the initial connection to be done via internet, then the box starts streaming the video from the satellite.

There is no way that directv customer are going to be able to stream vod programming through their existing internet. Does that mean DTV won't make it that way? I'm sure they will.

The potential for problems are so huge just on the consumer side alone. Take into consideration that you have the following companies, all who are now television providers, delivering D*tv's VOD over the following connections that they themselves own:

Comcast Cable
Optimum Online
Verzion DSL/Verizon Fios

You really think that this is going to play out well? How does directv plan to deal with packet priority, bandwidth limitations, etc. 

Then you run into quality issues. Is the VOD going to be SD quality? Significantly less than SD? 

These are questions are would like to see hard concrete answers on.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Ken S said:


> We'll see...they have a lot of money riding on this working correctly...so I'm sure they'll come up with something.


Remember the HR20?


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Also, to add:

It very well might follow the procedure that slingbox takes when streaming video. It essentially will use ALL existing bandwidth (all of it) available. As the bandwidth lowers, so then does the picture quality.


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## vernonator (Jul 31, 2007)

So is VOD going to be limited to DVR customers only, or will a std box do it as well? If its DVR only I can see them buffering a significant amount to the disk prior to allowing you to view it - that could address some network latency.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

mr anderson said:


> QoS only works if both ends are supporting it. Try explaining to the average consumer how to set up a router or switch support QoS.
> 
> Even then, the only way VOD will succeed (and when I say succeed I really mean to not further DTV's rep like the HR20 has) would be for the initial connection to be done via internet, then the box starts streaming the video from the satellite.
> 
> ...


Not to mention those ISPs that penalize customers if they overuse their alloted bandwidth for a specific time.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

mr anderson said:


> Take into consideration that you have the following companies, all who are now television providers, delivering D*tv's VOD over the following connections that they themselves own:
> 
> Comcast Cable
> Optimum Online
> ...


Wow, having DSL, I hadn't really thought about that, but with Comcast cable modems possibly delivering D* VOD content, that brings the entire net-neutrality topic to center stage...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Actually, there's another issue as well. Some of you may have read about "Net Neutrality". Part of what that means is that ISPs need to be neutral when it comes to how they transfer packets to certain addresses. Some ISPs would prefer to be able to go to content providers and say...we'll make sure your customers get faster response time and greater bandwidth if you pay us. The flip side of that being that people that don't pay them get slower service or, even worse, their customers re-directed.

The downside to this is what if Comcast says...we're going to specifically de-prioritize packets for DirecTV customers. Sure...you could get rid of Comcast internet...but do you think AT&T, Verizon, etc. is going to treat them better?

Sure there may be some fair-trade complaints available...but right now Congress hasn't gone out of its way to protect from this type of thing happening.

Don't think this could happen? Read on if you're interested...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

Will the ISPs do this? One way or the other they're not going to be thrilled about carrying a competitor's programming over their service unless they're making extra money from it.

As I said earlier...it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## Sparks (Jul 11, 2007)

davidord said:


> I agree that is a good solution. But, the cost of the POE equipment may need to come down a little before it becomes mainstream. Also, the speed transmission rates will vary depending on the quality of wiring in the house. More variables = more calls to customer support.


We currently have POE (actually BPL - Broadband over Powerlines) in Cincinnati. Although it's not available everywhere in Cincy, I know several people that have it and love it.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Sparks said:


> We currently have POE (actually BPL - Broadband over Powerlines) in Cincinnati. Although it's not available everywhere in Cincy, I know several people that have it and love it.


Off topic, but any idea what the hold up is with this? I know I remember hearing about this at least 5 years ago and I haven't heard anything lately until you just said it. I'm satisfied with Zoomtown, but more competition can only be a good thing for the consumer.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

We really do not know how D* plans to deliver the VOD. It could be HD over satellite and SD only on internet, but who knows.

It does "spark" up some conversation though!


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> We really do not know how D* plans to deliver the VOD. It could be HD over satellite and SD only on internet, but who knows.
> 
> It does "spark" up some conversation though!


It will definately NOT be HD over internet.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> It will definately NOT be HD over internet.


Where did you get that ?


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> It will definately NOT be HD over internet.


A thirty minute show of HD would not be that bad! But like I said earlier, we have not clue as to how it is REALLY going to be hangled.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where did you get that ?


How are they going to stream a 1280x720p or 1920x1080i over a 3mb connection (whose theoretical max is 2800k tops) or a 1.5mb connection or a 768k?

Does DirecTV think that that everyone has FIOS?


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> How are they going to stream a 1280x720p or 1920x1080i over a 3mb connection (whose theoretical max is 2800k tops) or a 1.5mb connection or a 768k?
> 
> Does DirecTV think that that everyone has FIOS?


Stream?

So, they may not stream at all. Might just download it to the hard drive. When the download is complete, then you can watch it.

Who knows...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Spanky_Partain said:


> So, they may not stream at all. Might just download it to the hard drive. When the download is complete, then you can watch it.


You mean... account for the fact that everyone might not have the same broadband performance?


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You mean... account for the fact that everyone might not have the same broadband performance?


I agree that they need to do something with enough buffering to avoid running out of buffer, but I can hear the outcry starting now... "what do you mean I need to wait 5/10/15/20/30 minutes to start watching my movie, it's Video On [email protected]$"


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Ken S said:


> As I said earlier...it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.


Actually Ken said a lot more than that and in much greater detail than my little blurb. I hadn't yet, but I think it's time to send that note off to my congressperson and senators re: net neutrality to let them know I think it's important.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> How are they going to stream a 1280x720p or 1920x1080i over a 3mb connection (whose theoretical max is 2800k tops) or a 1.5mb connection or a 768k?
> 
> Does DirecTV think that that everyone has FIOS?


First, many people don't even have 3 Mbps DSL

It has been pointed out before, but obviously needs to be said again:

simple math: assume a 1.5 mbps DSL connection, assume 8 GB file for 1 hour of HD. eight bits in a byte.

8GB*8 bits per byte/ 1.5 mbps = 42666 sec= 711.1 min= 11.8 hours to download 1 hour of HD video (MPEG-4 compression might reduce this by 25% or so)

ironically, Directv VOD may force people to have cable/Fios installed to get the speeds they need for VOD.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

leww37334 said:


> First, many people don't even have 3 Mbps DSL
> 
> It has been pointed out before, but obviously needs to be said again:
> 
> ...


Not to mention how much slower your browsing and other "regular" 'net activity will be for that timeframe.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

At this point all modes of delivery are likely up for consideration. Experience and time will determine what modes survive.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> At this point all modes of delivery are likely up for consideration. Experience and time will determine what modes survive.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom,

If they are to be releasing VoD in the next few months with "thousands" of shows I hope they have pretty much settled on their strategy. Certainly, it could change...but I would hope the initial "spec" is written and agreed upon if they plan on launching this year.


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## falken (Jun 14, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> I agree that they need to do something with enough buffering to avoid running out of buffer, but I can hear the outcry starting now... "what do you mean I need to wait 5/10/15/20/30 minutes to start watching my movie, it's Video On [email protected]$"


- de·mand 
1. to ask for with proper authority.
2. to ask for peremptorily or urgently.
3. to call for or require as just, proper, or necessary.

Its not called Instant Video, or Video Without Waiting. 

Video On Demand - I am requesting this video with authority and require it to be delivered urgently.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I get it so...if they can't deliver what the marketplace considers Video on Demand some will try to redefine it.

Hey...let's just call it VoD which could stand for Video on Delay.

I guess if my wife tells me to drive to the store and rent a video...that's Video on Demand under your definition.

c'mon.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

VOD should get to me quicker than if I went to the store myself to pick it up.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

My connection is faster than 1.5 mbps. I would hate to see DirecTV not offer HD VOD because it takes a long time to download. I'm most instances, I'm willing to sacrifice download time for quality.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> I get it so...if they can't deliver what the marketplace considers Video on Demand some will try to redefine it.


So... this is the first implementation of "VOD" in the DBS enviorment, but yet they have to conform to the technological advantages of a different technology. (actually 2nd, as there was the Starz on Demand on DirecTV before)

How about they don't call it VOD... and call it DirecTV On Demand
Would it then be forced to conform to the "marketplace" definitions of it?

So long as the expectations of the feature are known... that people understand what the feature is, how to use it, and what to expect...
Then what is the big deal?


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

falken said:


> Its not called Instant Video, or Video Without Waiting.
> 
> Video On Demand - I am requesting this video with authority and require it to be delivered urgently.


Thanks for the dictionary reference.  I'm not complaining and I certainly understand the technical challenges that are faced in delivering this service.

However, the connotation of VoD is certainly more along the lines of "when I demand it", not just "that I demand it". By the literal definition, D* has had VoD for years (via their PPV offering). What I was attempting to point out is that the marketing messages around VoD have set a very different expectation with the consumer. This isn't a message exclusive to D*, but in the industry in general.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... this is the first implementation of "VOD" in the DBS enviorment, but yet they have to conform to the technological advantages of a different technology. (actually 2nd, as there was the Starz on Demand on DirecTV before)


Hopefully this iteration works out better than Starz on Demand did. 



Earl Bonovich said:


> How about they don't call it VOD... and call it DirecTV On Demand
> Would it then be forced to conform to the "marketplace" definitions of it?


D* on Demand would probably help with the general public perception, but then it would just give the cable cos. marketing ammunition (which they'll probably have anyway if it takes more than 10 minutes to start the movie you are requesting.

You hit it Earl, it's all about appropriately setting the consumer's expectations.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... this is the first implementation of "VOD" in the DBS enviorment, but yet they have to conform to the technological advantages of a different technology. (actually 2nd, as there was the Starz on Demand on DirecTV before)
> 
> How about they don't call it VOD... and call it DirecTV On Demand
> Would it then be forced to conform to the "marketplace" definitions of it?
> ...


Earl,

They're not "forced" to do anything (except not engage in fraud or deceptive advertising)...there are competitive pressures though.

I would assume they also want to offer a service that will help customer retention and increase revenue. They don't have to call it anything...but if they're going to position it against other Video on Demand services shouldn't it be in the same realm of functionality...and wouldn't just positioning it as a "On Demand" service be misleading.

I guess they could always put the information in the manual to set those features and expectations...(oops that hasn't worked so well in the past)...or put asterisks all over the place.

I didn't write in this thread to "bash" DirecTV. All I've said so far is they face some very large hurdles in releasing a competitive Video on Demand product and that it would be interesting to see how it plays out.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> I didn't write in this thread to "bash" DirecTV.


I know that (and everyone else should to).
Typed word, doesn't allow the suttle tone of replies to come accross well..

IMHO; It really just boils down to setting the proper expectations, and understanding of how the feature works from the consumer point of view.

If Cable-Co's want to use it as a marketing/advantage to push their product to... that is the nature of the market space...


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## falken (Jun 14, 2007)

judson_west said:


> VOD should get to me quicker than if I went to the store myself to pick it up.


They will always be faster than that for me. 
Home->Video Store: 6 min.
Find video in store: 5 min.
Realize this is available in an HD format but my store does not carry it:
Look for another movie: 5 min.
Stand in line waiting: 6 min.
Wait for them to ring up the movie, tell me about my late fee from the last movie I didn't get back in time, collect my money and print the receipt: 3 min.
Drive back home: 6 min.
--
Time: 31 min.
Cost: $3.99 + $3.99 for the late fee + tax + 1 gallon of gas= $11.46.
--

Or I could click what movie I want, make something to eat or do something around the house for 15-30 min., then sit down and enjoy my movie for alot less money and not have to worry about returning the movie when i'm done.

Obvoiusly YMMV with going to the video store, but there is my average.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

falken said:


> They will always be faster than that for me.
> Home->Video Store: 6 min.
> Find video in store: 5 min.
> Realize this is available in an HD format but my store does not carry it:
> ...


Netflix works pretty well for this too 

Oh - and they have auto-change your account to send HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if you have that capability, and it doesn't cost a dime more


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## falken (Jun 14, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> Netflix works pretty well for this too
> 
> Oh - and they have auto-change your account to send HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if you have that capability, and it doesn't cost a dime more


Yes, I do use and love netflix. They just don't always make it to the mailbox in a timely fashion and I want something new now. 

Disturbia blu-ray (or hd-dvd, don't recall which is default) should be in my mailbox now from netflix... time to go check.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

falken said:


> They will always be faster than that for me.
> Home->Video Store: 6 min.
> Find video in store: 5 min.
> Realize this is available in an HD format but my store does not carry it:
> ...


Have you seen the new video vending machines in many supermarkets etc. They hold about 200 movies mostly new releases. You put your credit card in...select the movie and out it spews. Cost is $1/day. Not such a bad system...it's not VoD though.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Have you seen the new video vending machines in many supermarkets etc. They hold about 200 movies mostly new releases. You put your credit card in...select the movie and out it spews. Cost is $1/day. Not such a bad system...it's not VoD though.


www.redbox.com

Nice system... if it continues to grow... it is going to take another major chunk out B&M Video rental stores (Hollywood and Blockbuster)...

But again... as you said... it isn't the same as provider based "OnDemand"


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> www.redbox.com
> 
> Nice system... if it continues to grow... it is going to take another major chunk out B&M Video rental stores (Hollywood and Blockbuster)...
> 
> But again... as you said... it isn't the same as provider based "OnDemand"


Yep, there's another company doing it to. They've cut some deal with Publix in Florida (the largest supermarket chain in the state). They both work pretty much the same way. The only problem I've seen is a somewhat limited selection (I think about 200 Titles roughly) and the senior citizen who needs to take 5 minutes to find a movie and then another 10 to figure out how to use the machine.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

falken said:


> - de·mand
> 1. to ask for with proper authority.
> 2. to ask for peremptorily or urgently.
> 3. to call for or require as just, proper, or necessary.
> ...


...or... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_on_demand


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Yep, there's another company doing it to. They've cut some deal with Publix in Florida (the largest supermarket chain in the state). They both work pretty much the same way. The only problem I've seen is a somewhat limited selection (I think about 200 Titles roughly) and the senior citizen who needs to take 5 minutes to find a movie and then another 10 to figure out how to use the machine.


Can I use my AARP card for a discount? Where is that dang card, I know I have it here somewhere...


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## jerry3b (Jan 25, 2007)

Isn't VOD being tested with some Directv employees. I thought I read this somewhere awile back. It was to be tested inhouse then as a CE?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

jerry3b said:


> Isn't VOD being tested with some Directv employees. I thought I read this somewhere awile back. It was to be tested inhouse then as a CE?


Yes it has been in internal testing with DIRECTV employees for months now. Then it will go to CE testing and then to everyone.


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## jerry3b (Jan 25, 2007)

So nobody has leaked any info on how well or not it works?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

jerry3b said:


> So nobody has leaked any info on how well or not it works?


The only that has been leaked at all was a DIRECTV employee posted a few pics of it about 2 or 3 months ago and it was removed in minutes. That is it.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl, your hints indicate that it will not be streaming over internet and so by elimination will either:

a) Be streaming from the satellite

B) Downloading from the satellite

c) Downloaded over existing internet connection.

Option B and C are not in any way, shape, or form VOD. If that's where "DirecTV on demand" comes into play, well then, guess I can't argue that, except the "on demand part", which it wouldn't be.

Now if it was option A, which is improbable it would be different.

I just can't see for the life of me how they plan on implementing this without piss poor PQ or with downloads lasting hours.

DirecTV scheduled on demand?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> Earl, your hints indicate that it will not be streaming and it will either
> 
> a) Be streaming from the satellite
> 
> ...


So it may not be in your definition of "VOD"...
But based on the Wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_on_demand
that bto4wd linked too...

All of those options fit with the Video On Demand.

You do realize that even some cable-co versions of on-demand, are stored localled as well? Are they not VOD? are they not On-Demand?

What is your EXACT definition of what makes it Video On Demand?
The absolute second that you want to watch it... it is there.... in it's entirety?

Considering there is no "industry" of authoritative body that defines what is Video On Demand (maybe the FCC should get on that)... it is subject to interpetation...

So... again... back to the point.

Provided that the expectations, and the understanding on the consumer side is clearly defined... then what is the problem?

Will you not have access to content... "On Demand"... where you don't have to wait for any broadcaster to fit it into their schedule?

Will you be able to watch that content in a relatively expectation of time?
Not say DAYS later after requesting it.

It isn't called: DirecTV Streaming...

If the fact that you "may" have to wait for some of it to buffer to your system, has you all up in arms... then don't use the feature...
Wait for it to re-air (or air at all) on a channel and record it, or watching it in the ultimate streaming aspect... live.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Here is my definition of VOD, and I would suspect it would be the same definition that 99% of the people who have had any experience at all with VOD would be. Push the VOD button on the remote, menu pops up, select your show, a few seconds later your show starts. Not 30 minutes later not two hours later.

Since we are temporarily with cable, we have VOD. In our use, VOD has been a spur of the moment type of service - ie, have nothing to do for an hour or so, nothing on TV then check out VOD and see what is on, having to plan ahead will take much of the luster away..

If they are not even going to stream even the SD content, IMO it'll be better than nothing, but will still be very underwhelming. However, if its waiting just a few minutes to buffer and then stream, I would be OK with that, guess I'll just have to wait and see.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

mr anderson said:


> DirecTV scheduled on demand?


Exactly. Isn't that what we have right now? A DVR? :lol:


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

This all still boils down to the fact no one knows. Or those that do know aren't sharing.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Here's a way they could do some of it...and kind of Rube Goldberg VoD.

1. Automatically download the 10 - 20 most popular programs (they'll guess) to the HR20s HDs of Everyone. You choose them, unlock them and watch them. They have either 50GB or 100GB reserved on the drive...this might be the use. Maybe down the road you can even tell them what types of shows you would prefer to have stored on your HD for potential purchase and/or viewing. I would think that this would have to be cleared with the studios, but maybe not...DirecTV can claim they own all the HR20s so the content isn't leaving their possession.

2. Put the next 10 - 20 on the satellite for a streaming kind of delivery. Not quite as nice as you probably can't fast forward to the end of a movie/show.

3. The rest are delivered over the internet or downloaded from the satellite (or both). There is a time delay on this based on your connection speed.

4. This would be kind of clever...they could store the first 20 minutes or so of many programs on the local HD and begin streaming the rest when the person picks the show. Not perfect...but maybe viable.

The numbers of shows I've tossed up there are just guesses.

That might be the best they can do until someone comes up with some faster transfer method. It'll happen...wasn't so long ago that I sat in a meeting and was told the fastest data could be transmitted over a phone line was a 28.8 modem.

It very well may not be Video on Demand but it could be a nice alternative to going to the video store.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

I am trying to figure out what is going on here, exactly how will Directv implement VOD? Will it be available for download over the internet or not, and if not then haven't people here gone to a lot of trouble and expense networking their HR-20?

It amazes me at how silent Directv is on that subject. They throw out a "we are adding Video on demand" statement and absolutely no information on how it will be implemented. If they really plan on implementing this within the next month, surely they have some idea how it is supposed to work. 

I know some people will say Directv doesn't owe us any information. I would agree with that statement if they hadn't used VOD as a marketing tool by announcing that they were going to be adding it.

Again Directv needs to provide a representative to this site to answer this and other questions.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

leww37334 said:


> I am trying to figure out what is going on here, exactly how will Directv implement VOD? Will it be available for download over the internet or not, and if not then haven't people here gone to a lot of trouble and expense networking their HR-20?
> 
> It amazes me at how silent Directv is on that subject. They throw out a "we are adding Video on demand" statement and absolutely no information on how it will be implemented. If they really plan on implementing this within the next month, surely they have some idea how it is supposed to work.
> 
> ...


As stated before by Earl, myself, and others:
1) For the best operation of VOD you will need to network your HR20.
2) Content will be delivered thru many modes: a) internet, b) satellite request, c) satellite preload, d) carrier pigeon (but only in select markets)
3) Someone will likely post a "DBSTalk.com First Look" (tho I don't know that, I'm guessing) and that will provide many more answers.

HTH,
Tom


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> 3) Someone will likely post a "DBSTalk.com First Look" (tho I don't know that, I'm guessing) and that will provide many more answers.


And as we've seen before, how will folks like "my Dad" know about this? Is this going to be a feature limited to those that frequent DBSTalk? Does D* think running a blurb on channel 100 or whatever will inform the masses this is available and follow these steps on how to get it in your home.

D* never has been real good a communicating to it's customer base and with a launch as big as this they're going to have to do a better job than a thread here.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bto4wd said:


> And as we've seen before, how will folks like "my Dad" know about this? Is this going to be a feature limited to those that frequent DBSTalk? Does D* think running a blurb on channel 100 or whatever will inform the masses this is available and follow these steps on how to get it in your home.
> 
> D* never has been real good a communicating to it's customer base and with a launch as big as this they're going to have to do a better job than a thread here.


When something as Large as VOD will be introduced... that isn't the same as say "group play" is introduced.

Didn't they make it VERY clear to people when the GUI was updated?

So when it is time to launch VOD to the masses... you can be sure they are not going to have it go by "word of mouth".


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bto4wd said:


> And as we've seen before, how will folks like "my Dad" know about this? Is this going to be a feature limited to those that frequent DBSTalk? Does D* think running a blurb on channel 100 or whatever will inform the masses this is available and follow these steps on how to get it in your home.
> 
> D* never has been real good a communicating to it's customer base and with a launch as big as this they're going to have to do a better job than a thread here.


BTO,

There is revenue tied to VoD you can bet they'll let people know about it.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> BTO,
> 
> There is revenue tied to VoD you can bet they'll let people know about it.


Now that makes sense! :lol:


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Didn't they make it VERY clear to people when the GUI was updated?


I didn't have a HR20 at that time so I really don't know what they did.

Do you know if they're even thinking of a manual revamp given the progress over the past year?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bto4wd said:


> I didn't have a HR20 at that time so I really don't know what they did.
> 
> Do you know if they're even thinking of a manual revamp given the progress over the past year?


When the new GUI was introduced... when you hist LIST, it took to you to a single screen that announced the update.

As for the manual... yes, they are planning a "re-write"/update of it.


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## vernonator (Jul 31, 2007)

leww37334 said:


> I am trying to figure out what is going on here, exactly how will Directv implement VOD? Will it be available for download over the internet or not, and if not then haven't people here gone to a lot of trouble and expense networking their HR-20?
> 
> It amazes me at how silent Directv is on that subject. They throw out a "we are adding Video on demand" statement and absolutely no information on how it will be implemented. If they really plan on implementing this within the next month, surely they have some idea how it is supposed to work.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm ever thought that maybe they are being tight lipped to keep the info from the competition? Sheesshhhh have you people ever worked in a competative environment? Have you seen the extent that Detroit goes to hiding the outline of a new model? Come on....D* is not going to give out ANYTHING that would give their competition any info until they absolutly have too.


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## vernonator (Jul 31, 2007)

bto4wd said:


> And as we've seen before, how will folks like "my Dad" know about this? Is this going to be a feature limited to those that frequent DBSTalk? Does D* think running a blurb on channel 100 or whatever will inform the masses this is available and follow these steps on how to get it in your home.
> 
> D* never has been real good a communicating to it's customer base and with a launch as big as this they're going to have to do a better job than a thread here.


Maybe they don't WANT to do a big launch at first...just get the people who are typically early adopters to pick it up and help work out the kinks.....


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Ken S said:


> 1. Automatically download the 10 - 20 most popular programs (they'll guess) to the HR20s HDs of Everyone. You choose them, unlock them and watch them. They have either 50GB or 100GB reserved on the drive...this might be the use. Maybe down the road you can even tell them what types of shows you would prefer to have stored on your HD for potential purchase and/or viewing. I would think that this would have to be cleared with the studios, but maybe not...DirecTV can claim they own all the HR20s so the content isn't leaving their possession.


I'm pretty sure that the R15 and HR20 have the ability to download VOD on your HDD based on viewing habits (but that doesn't mean they have to use that ability).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> I'm pretty sure that the R15 and HR20 have the ability to download VOD on your HDD based on viewing habits (but that doesn't mean they have to use that ability).


Not that I am aware of... as that will get EXTREMELY close to TiVo's patented Suggestion feature.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

vernonator said:


> Maybe they don't WANT to do a big launch at first...just get the people who are typically early adopters to pick it up and help work out the kinks.....


I believe that's their plan with opening VOD up to CE'ers first. But eventually, if everything works as planed, it does need to be rolled out to the masses. So folks that don't hit the internet and do have a HR20 will need to find out how they use this.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

VOD blows, just get a dang HR20/21 and you're all set. This feature on TWC/Comcrap/Adelphia was a frickin' joke. All you peeps with no DVR need to pony up & quit whining to D* about VOD. It's such a waste of time, un-frickin-reality!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

texasmoose said:


> VOD blows, just get a dang HR20/21 and you're all set. This feature on TWC/Comcrap/Adelphia was a frickin' joke. All you peeps with no DVR need to pony up & quit whining to D* about VOD. It's such a waste of time, un-frickin-reality!


Ummm... VOD is going to require the HR20 (at least in it's initial phase).

And just because a Cable-Co's version was a joke, doesn't mean the service on another provider will be...


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

Downloading HD content over wireless B or G will take time. The USB wireless adapter is an option (maybe) as they have become quite common in networks. I still wired my HR20 via ethernet for speed reasons.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

JFHughes08088 said:


> Downloading HD content over wireless B or G will take time. The USB wireless adapter is an option (maybe) as they have become quite common in networks. I still wired my HR20 via ethernet for speed reasons.


Probably, for most folks, their intenet connection will be the bottle neck. 802.11G should handle it with no problem and if they have the 'standard' DSL connection (3Mpbs or less) 802.11B would probably also not be the problem.


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

True, most wireless set-ups are capable of data transfer much faster than the download speed.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

RAD said:


> Probably, for most folks, their intenet connection will be the bottle neck. 802.11G should handle it with no problem and if they have the 'standard' DSL connection (3Mpbs or less) 802.11B would probably also not be the problem.


That's very true. Most home wireless networks still handle data faster than the home's broadband connection.

Now another side could be if the HR20's guts can handle the data. My DTivos with Networking and MRV enabled only run about 200K. Barely enough to keep up with an SD program. Limits of the software and hardware. If one's HR20 is recording a couple of programs, playing live TV and pulling down VOD the REAL bottleneck may be the HR20 itself.


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

texasmoose said:


> VOD blows, just get a dang HR20/21 and you're all set. This feature on TWC/Comcrap/Adelphia was a frickin' joke. All you peeps with no DVR need to pony up & quit whining to D* about VOD. It's such a waste of time, un-frickin-reality!


I check out the Comcrapstic forum occasionally, a significant number indicate VOD is one of reasons they don't switch to DBS. The others being LOS, triple play/single bill, DLB, and lease program (which may indicate that price is their single motivator to change providers).

Reading some of those threads makes the HR20/MPEG4/VOD/MRV implementation seem painless.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/road-to-...rogramming-until-cablecard-is-easy-271310.php


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## jes (Apr 21, 2007)

RAD said:


> Probably, for most folks, their intenet connection will be the bottle neck. 802.11G should handle it with no problem and if they have the 'standard' DSL connection (3Mpbs or less) 802.11B would probably also not be the problem.


Figure ~ 50% overhead for wireless... unless you're lucky enough to have FIOS, 802.11B should hold it's own to ~5M. Ethernet over power or what ever it's called is the worst idea on the planet. It basically adds digital noise to your A/C line. (how many of you have shielded A/C lines?) If you are using X10 or similar power line automation control, you are already using momentary "noise" to control your lights. I'm guessing if you or your close neighbors add Ethernet over power, you can kiss off the reliability of your power line home automation devices... 

As far as the whole VOD thing, I'm with those against it, in favor of using a DVR. Unless we get to the technological point (next generation) of the majority having the choice of reasonably priced high speed internet (~100M) to their homes, all this VOD, streaming video, live gaming, VoIP, etc. is just adding to the extreme congestion of the exisiting infrastructure...


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

jes said:


> Figure ~ 50% overhead for wireless... unless you're lucky enough to have FIOS, 802.11B should hold it's own to ~5M. Ethernet over power or what ever it's called is the worst idea on the planet. It basically adds digital noise to your A/C line. (how many of you have shielded A/C lines?) If you are using X10 or similar power line automation control, you are already using momentary "noise" to control your lights. I'm guessing if you or your close neighbors add Ethernet over power, you can kiss off the reliability of your power line home automation devices...
> 
> As far as the whole VOD thing, I'm with those against it, in favor of using a DVR. Unless we get to the technological point (next generation) of the majority having the choice of reasonably priced high speed internet (~100M) to their homes, all this VOD, streaming video, live gaming, VoIP, etc. is just adding to the extreme congestion of the exisiting infrastructure...


Party pooper


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

Instead of calling it "Video On Demand", it seems to be more like "Download On Demand". This doesn't bother me since the device can download the beginning of a show and begin play while it downloads the rest.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

JFHughes08088 said:


> True, most wireless set-ups are capable of data transfer much faster than the download speed.


Yep, anything inside your home (unless you have a very poor WiFi signal) is going to beat the snot off of your WAN connection. I have a Gigabit switch in my basement though the only devices that are >100Mbit speed are my computer and 500MB SAN device. I was fortunate enough to be able to do all of the wiring in our home during the construction process so I've got ehternet drops to both my HR20 and Denon4306, both of which are 100Mbit only.

Even if I had to resort to wireless, 802.11g will go to 54Mbit and 802.11b to 11Mbit. All of the above are > my 5 Mbit DSL connection.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

JFHughes08088 said:


> Instead of calling it "Video On Demand", it seems to be more like "Download On Demand". This doesn't bother me since the device can download the beginning of a show and begin play while it downloads the rest.


I concur, though we both sound like realists, not necessarily marketing types. :lol:


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

Frankly, between DVR and VOD (assuming what I want is available via VOD) I might never leave the couch. Oh yeah, except for that work thing.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

JFHughes08088 said:


> Instead of calling it "Video On Demand", it seems to be more like "Download On Demand". This doesn't bother me since the device can download the beginning of a show and begin play while it downloads the rest.


Then it would be "DOD," and that one is taken by the "Department of Defense."

Maybe it should be: "WPVODBYWSIUCES2008." "We Promised VOD But You Won't See It Until CES 2008."


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

It's all a matter of bandwidth, transmit capabilities, etc. Me, I'm pushing bandwidth pretty hard with 5 computers surfing, all connected via wireless B or G, plus VoIP.

VoIP can fall victim to issues while being on a call AND doing a large upload (as in large attachment to an email). Download hasn't been an issue since I purchase faster speed. We will see.................


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

It's ironic that VOD is coming back to the DVR, as the first DVR companies were started by people who had got their feet wet in digitial TV by building video servers for VOD trials. The early VOD systems were too expensive because they required the vendor to build a complete high-speed ATM network, and the limited demand for VOD over rental stores didn't justify it financially. That was mid-90s, before broadband Internet caught on. So now we're full circle and we have good enough gear in the home to mask the inconsistency of the access network.

Early on some people were complaining about how hard it is to setup a WiFi network. The vendors are aware of this and have developed a one-button easy setup scheme (under the sponsorship of the WiFi Alliance) to solve this problem in a standard, multi-vendor way. Networks that use WiFi easy setup will be secure and any granny can use them.

Regarding HomePlug (powerline networking), I used to work with the guys who invented HomePlug 2.0, and from everything they've told me it's a completely practical system for video streaming. That was actually their model application that the whole system was built around, so don't dismiss it.

HD video streaming over the Internet is a practical reality today, it simply requires the right kind of compression and a bit more patience than SD streaming. You can use BitTorrent or Netflix to get video-on-demand today, with varying degrees of delay before your show starts up; for Netflix it's almost instant.

VOD is a problem for satellite TV companies as their product has to compete with a variety of Internet-based services that don't have to pay for the kind of infrastructure the DBS companies own. With a couple of tweaks, the Internet can do everything that DBS does today, and for a fraction of the incremental cost of a standard Internet connection. That's probably why Murdoch sold his interest in DTV, the handwriting on the wall says DTV's business model is doomed.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BubbaDude said:


> VOD is a problem for satellite TV companies as their product has to compete with a variety of Internet-based services that don't have to pay for the kind of infrastructure the DBS companies own. With a couple of tweaks, the Internet can do everything that DBS does today, and for a fraction of the incremental cost of a standard Internet connection. That's probably why Murdoch sold his interest in DTV, the handwriting on the wall says DTV's business model is doomed.


What couple of tweaks? Would fix some of the limitation that IPTV, such as AT&T's U-Verse product.... to allow it to do DIFFERENT HDTV program on ever TV...

Best I can tell from the net resources, you can only do 1 HDTV program, and 4 SD's at once... after that... you have issues.

DTV (SAT based) has a LONG time till it is "doomed", you need some MASSIVE upgrades to broadband infrastruture... as others have already wanted to point out... these pipes that COMCAST have laid down, are going to start to "hurt" if people start to download more.... what is going to happen, when all entertainment is via IP based transmissions.

The FIBER to the door, is a LONG LONG way off... and who is to say, that DirecTV couldn't have a component that ran off that, like IPTV offerings.. instead of using SAT transmissions..

Then not even the markets that don't even have CABLE yet, let alone BROADBAND....

As with any company, as technology changes... they need to change with it... So the model "today" may not work for the next 10-15 years... but doesn't mean they can't adapt.


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

16 Million customers and growing doesn’t sound like a doomed business model to me. Also, as long as cable continues to piss off its customers, the consumer will always search for an alternative. It's one of the big reasons VoIP took hold. If the telco's were looking out for their customers, loyalty would make it tougher for new entrants into the market.

D* needs to continue to differentiate itself from the likes of other satellite players, cable, etc. For now, that differentiation is it's ability to deliver more HD (when it comes available), Sunday Ticket, etc. So far, D* seems to be investing more $ than others to deliver content, and deliver it in HD. Are they the best? Of course not. As a public, for profit company, they will have to balance the wants of the customers with the needs of the stock holders.


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What couple of tweaks? Would fix some of the limitation that IPTV, such as AT&T's U-Verse product.... to allow it to do DIFFERENT HDTV program on ever TV...


It's not appropriate for this list to get into all the details, just suffice it to say that the way the Internet and the cable TV access network operate today is less than ideal for video. Cable wastes a lot of bandwidth streaming each channel to each viewer whether he wants it or not (at any given time), so a switched architecture would be much more efficient. When all programming is digital, there's no reason not to switch and essentially deliver all programming "on demand."

If the cable access network is converted, which doesn't require new cable, then the bandwidth available for the standard Internet connection is much greater and the limitations on IPTV less severe.

Rumor has it that Dish and DirecTV are bidding on the 700 MHz spectrum the FCC is auctioning, because they realize the fact that they can't offer (serious) Internet access is a real problem.

My assessment of the DBS business model is that it starts to collapse in a serious way about 5 years from now, but it could take a little longer. And certainly, there will always be niche markets in this country and in less-developed ones where it will continue to be attractive for much longer, so you don't need to sell your DirecTV stock just yet.

Nothing lasts forever, especially technology.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BubbaDude said:


> My assessment of the DBS business model is that it starts to collapse in a serious way about 5 years from now, but it could take a little longer.


You say that right after mentioning the fact that DirecTV and Dish are bidding on terrestrial wireless spectrum. They are obviously preparing to adapt to future changes in the marketplace. It's not like they're just sitting around with their head in the sand, thinking that everything is going to stay the same forever.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> You say that right after mentioning the fact that DirecTV and Dish are bidding on terrestrial wireless spectrum. They are obviously preparing to adapt to future changes in the marketplace. It's not like they're just sitting around with their head in the sand, thinking that everything is going to stay the same forever.


Oh, that head in sand thing, like CableCos? :lol: Getting hard to tell which is worse.


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## hells_bells (Jul 16, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> Expect to see some sort of ethernet over power solution as an alternative to running cat5 to the receivers.


I use that type of solution from sling media called Slinglink Turbo. Works great.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Second that, SlingLink was one of the easiest network upgrades I've done. Only problem was finding two non-surge-protected outlets (surge protection removes the digital transmission).


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

davidord said:


> Then it would be "DOD," and that one is taken by the "Department of Defense."
> 
> Maybe it should be: "WPVODBYWSIUCES2008." "We Promised VOD But You Won't See It Until CES 2008."


I'll respond to my own thread by saying, hey, I was wrong. So far so good with VOD or DOD. SD seems more practical at this point though. My connection speed is 6Mbps down and I am able to watch a show a few seconds after it starts. But, HD will be more of an overnight download I think.


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## BreezeCJ (Jan 8, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And that right there is one the #1 reasons NOT to include a wireless hookup, or device... and going the route of the "game adapter" or the over the power line.
> 
> If they do decided to go that route... then yes... they are going to have to have a support mechanism setup for that.


Can a game adapter be used instead or a wireless network?

I'm having a hell of time getting my netgear rangemax to work properly.


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## tombet (Sep 27, 2006)

Regarding gaming adapters, I use a D-Link DWL-G820 with a slingbox and it works great. To date, I have had no need to use it with my HR-20, so can't comment with certainty, but the principle is just like my use with the Slingbox. 

I've had real spotty success with other D-Link products over the years, but this adapter (aboud $65 from newegg) has worked flawlessly for me with the Slingbox for over a year. Never needs a reset. I've used it both with a DLINK DI-624 router as well as a Buffalo running DD_WRT opensource firmware - works great with both. (btw, the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with DD_WRT is a terrific wireless router solution.)


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## dcborn61 (Jun 26, 2006)

What about building in Wi-Fi? Hooking up my Nintendo Wii to the Internet was about the easiest thing I've ever tried. I much prefer that to having to add an additional wireless ethernet adapter, plus another couple of wires, to my DVR.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dcborn61 said:


> What about building in Wi-Fi? Hooking up my Nintendo Wii to the Internet was about the easiest thing I've ever tried.


Which standards should (or can) be supported? Wireless standards have been a moving target for a while now and many of the "pre-N" units aren't as "N" as hoped.

The failure in making a comparison between the Wii and an HD DVR is that the amount of data that needs to come to an HD DVR is significantly greater than what the Wii needs. The amount of information it takes to give the details of a Texas Hold'em game is negligible when compared with chewing up your entire bandwidth to download a movie for hours at a time. Basic wireless B can keep up with most DSL connections, but not many cable broadband connections.


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