# DBSTalk Exclusive First Look: DIRECTV H25-500 High Definition Receiver



## Stuart Sweet

*This is a first, folks... you see it here and it's not even on the market yet....

the DIRECTV H25-500 High Definition Receiver!*








H25 First Look

We're talking small here. This is the smallest DIRECTV HD receiver ever, and smaller than most SD receivers. Yet, it's just as fast and as capable as the other members of the H series.

Click through to read the exclusive first look!

_Please note that some DBSTalk.com testers and staff members may have received free equipment from DIRECTV or its partners for the purpose of evaluation and testing._


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## Stuart Sweet

To be clear... I don't know when this one is going to hit market. Right now there's no way to get one. 

This exclusive First Look is made possible with help from DIRECTV. The field testers and I are not prepared to offer any more details. I promise, as soon as possible, we'll give you as much detail as we can!


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## The Merg

Very nice indeed. Thanks again for a great little First Look. Just enough there to answer the big questions and get our appetites wet.

- Merg


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## Doug Brott

I did hear this thing is tiny ...


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## The Merg

Doug Brott said:


> I did hear this thing is tiny ...


And from the pics, it sure is. I can't believe the size difference between it and the H21. I think it might not be any larger than a Wii console from the pics. And the Wii is a terrific size.

- Merg


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## MikeW

Can you guys tell us if the unit will work with an RF remote?


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## barryb

Very nice.


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## The Merg

MikeW said:


> Can you guys tell us if the unit will work with an RF remote?


There is a port on the back for an external remote, so I would assume that would be to attach an RF antennae. Just supposition on my part though. Besides, considering the form-factor of this receiver, I would assume that it is made to be hidden away and RF remotes would be a huge benefit in those situations.

- Merg


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## Scott Kocourek

Great job on the First Look Stuart!!


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## dave29

Nice First Look. The H25 looks like a great solution to put behind a wall mounted TV.


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## Sixto

cool stuff!


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## Stuart Sweet

Yeah, it's really small. The shots with the tape measure say it all. I think it's the smallest receiver I've ever had... might be smaller than a D10.


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## Sixto

Hmmm. Can anyone make out that Broadcom chip?


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## Stuart Sweet

It's a <gaaak....glrug....renf....>

Sorry, I just force-choked myself.


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## hdtvfan0001

Excellent First Look testing team - kudos to Stuart on his work as well.

Even smurfs would love this unit!


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## Button Pusher

Very nice!


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## Alan Gordon

I was going to ask if it had the same UI as other boxes until I realized it was stated on the second page of the First Look... apparently because my PDF reader was acting up.

Good work on the First Look, folks! 

~Alan


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## sigma1914

Nice work, again.


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## Doug Brott

Sixto said:


> Hmmm. Can anyone make out that Broadcom chip?


Yes


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## canvasback

Where is the ethernet connection?


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## Sixto

"Doug Brott" said:


> Yes


So that clears that up.


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## Sixto

"canvasback" said:


> Where is the ethernet connection?


In 2010.


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## dennisj00

Stuart,

Great First Look! I'm happy to report that it looks PERFECT on the iPad with GoodReader. iBooks gave an format error but it still opened and looks the same.


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## LameLefty

Good job on the First Look, folks. Looks like a nice little box for the intended applications.


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## say-what

That is small - at first glance I thought the H25 was sitting on top of a HR24 before I read the caption.


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## upgrade lately?

That external power brick has to go... I realize they were trying to keep the size down, but come on. And a phone line port, really....


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## convem24

Nice job, and since the Shadow know, now we do too. Unfortunately I am a all DVR customer and this receiver doesn't really interest me but for those who have SWM with a whole home setup it is a great item coming down the pipe! Hope folks can get these in the next quarter.


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## P Smith

Sixto said:


> Hmmm. Can anyone make out that Broadcom chip?


I see it as BCM740x. Who was that photographer ?:eek2:


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## gonzo070777

Very nice and thanks. Too bad it wouldn't work for me as there is no Optical out. Only an RCA digital out.


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## dpeters11

canvasback said:


> Where is the ethernet connection?


There isn't one, it has DECA built in, so in that setup, it wouldn't need one. Maybe this is one reason it was highly recommended to go the supported route as opposed to ethernet for MRV etc. Just a theory.


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## Groundhog45

Looks good. Great report as usual, guys.


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## Doug Brott

P Smith said:


> I see it as BCM74...., Who was that photographer ?:eek2:


:shrug: Beats me, but I bet there are 30 different ways to look at it.


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## bobnielsen

gonzo070777 said:


> Very nice and thanks. Too bad it wouldn't work for me as there is no Optical out. Only an RCA digital out.


The H24 doesn't have an optical output either. S/PDIF to TOSLINK adapters are available, however.

This looks like it will fill a specific need, which I don't have. I was expecting it to possibly be the model which would enable a cost-effective MPEG4 transition for SD customers, but it would need a composite output for that.


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## P Smith

I see ... which way you took it ...


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## Doug Brott

gonzo070777 said:


> Very nice and thanks. Too bad it wouldn't work for me as there is no Optical out. Only an RCA digital out.





bobnielsen said:


> The H24 doesn't have an optical output either. S/PDIF to TOSLINK adapters are available, however.


Yup, for better or worse, it's looking like no more optical on any new DIRECTV gear. For those that still need optical, an adapter is really the only way to go.


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## Stuart Sweet

Having looked at Broadcom's catalog, there are several chips that might fit the bill.


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## LameLefty

P Smith said:


> I see ... which way you took it ...


If they had wanted you to know, they would have posted better pics. :lol:


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## Stuart Sweet

Doug Brott said:


> Yup, for better or worse, it's looking like no more optical on any new DIRECTV gear. For those that still need optical, an adapter is really the only way to go.


Oh, BTW, monoprice sells such an adapter for something like $7.


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## Sixto

wondering why anyone has issue with the brick. serious question. is that problem? just curious.

seems fine to me, and it takes heat out of the box.


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## say-what

Sixto said:


> wondering why anyone has issue with the brick. serious question. is that problem? just curious.
> 
> seems fine to me, and it takes heat out of the box.


My only thought would be with wall mount systems where the box is mounted on the wall behind the TV - I did this with an H24 at my parent's house. You'd have to deal with the brick instead of just tying up loose wires.


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## Alan Gordon

Sixto said:


> wondering why anyone has issue with the brick. serious question. is that problem? just curious.
> 
> seems fine to me, and it takes heat out of the box.


I personally like "bricks" on products, as more times than not, they are tons better than having the fat plugs which can often be problematic.

HOWEVER, the bricks can occasionally cause issues as well depending upon the way one's TV & receiver (etc.) are set up. I'm assuming that's why people are having an issue with it...

~Alan


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## hdtvfan0001

One item I did not read anywhere in the First Look is how the heat on this model compares with perhaps the H24 or other HD receivers...less heat, the same, etc. With a separate external oower supply...I would think the unit itself would run cooler, with any measurable heat located at the power supply location itself.

With a small device destined for tighter quarters in terms of location, that might be useful information.


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## Vinny

Looks like a great "little" HD receiver and I'm sure will be well received in the DBSTalk community.

Great job to the "First Look Team". Very professional presentation; short and concise.


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## Groundhog45

Since one common point of failure is often the power supply, having an external power brick might mean that they could just replace the brick and leave the receiver. Drop one in the mail, maybe.


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## scuba_tim

Can any testers confirm that one can use an RF antenna/remote with this little guy. The first look talks about the large IR receiver, which makes me wonder.... since if I'm hiding this box I'd prefer to use my (Giants) RF remote.


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## Newshawk

I like that the access card and the reset button are on the side. This makes it easier to reach in a situation where the receiver is mounted behind the TV (if the receiver has its front panel facing down.)


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## P Smith

Newshawk said:


> I like that the access card and the reset button are on the side. This makes it easier to reach in a situation where the receiver is mounted behind the TV (if the receiver has its front panel facing down.)


Does look awkward, how you suppose to control it ? Sitting on a floor ?


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## moghedien

bobnielsen said:


> The H24 doesn't have an optical output either. S/PDIF to TOSLINK adapters are available, however.
> 
> This looks like it will fill a specific need, which I don't have. I was expecting it to possibly be the model which would enable a cost-effective MPEG4 transition for SD customers, but it would need a composite output for that.


Look to the left of the 'digital audio out' on the back of this receiver. Those look like composite outputs to me...


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## Mike Bertelson

scuba_tim said:


> Can any testers confirm that one can use an RF antenna/remote with this little guy. The first look talks about the large IR receiver, which makes me wonder.... since if I'm hiding this box I'd prefer to use my (Giants) RF remote.


I would refer you to post #2. 

Mike


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## lugnutathome

It's in the soap dish:grin:

Don "there's a whole dead cat in every bar of dead cat soap" Bolton



canvasback said:


> Where is the ethernet connection?


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## LameLefty

"Groundhog45" said:


> Since one common point of failure is often the power supply, having an external power brick might mean that they could just replace the brick and leave the receiver. Drop one in the mail, maybe.


Even more to the point, since a leading cause of failure of electronic components is overheating, moving the power supply outside the box ought to extend the lifespan pretty substantially.


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## Gloria_Chavez

Engineering question. Any compelling reason for a DVR to have flash storage? What would the cost differential have to be for a company like DTV to prefer flash over hard, taking into account the extended longevity of a flash drive?


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## FHSPSU67

Nice and great job, as usual


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## dpeters11

LameLefty said:


> Even more to the point, since a leading cause of failure of electronic components is overheating, moving the power supply outside the box ought to extend the lifespan pretty substantially.


Tell that to Microsoft. At least the DirecTV brick isn't a monstrosity like the 360 I had.


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## Go Beavs

Cool! That thing is tiny. I wonder when we'll see its DVR brother?

Nice work guys!


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## mhayes70

Good job guys!


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## mcbeevee

Nice job on the first look. Does this mean the HR25 is not too far away? :grin:


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## P Smith

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Engineering question. Any compelling reason for a DVR to have flash storage? What would the cost differential have to be for a company like DTV to prefer flash over hard, taking into account the extended longevity of a flash drive?


No one reason - one is big: a price, other: sectors wearing with constant DLB recording.


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## west99999

from what i heard from a tech is these will only be available on new installs and not allowed to be intalled on upgrades


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## tfederov

I knew size didn't matter. :lol:

Nice review. I'm curious though as to why they decided to have composite ports instead of component as the norm. Actually as I type this if they did that they'd still need two more RCA ports for sound. Ok. Makes sense.


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## matt

I like it!


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## SEAKevin

upgrade lately? said:


> And a phone line port, really....


Not everyone has eliminated their land lines..such as me.. and my parents. We both love the on screen caller id.


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## tgater

The Merg said:


> There is a port on the back for an external remote, so I would assume that would be to attach an RF antennae. Just supposition on my part though. Besides, considering the form-factor of this receiver, I would assume that it is made to be hidden away and RF remotes would be a huge benefit in those situations.
> 
> - Merg


Is it for remote out or remote in?


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## tgater

upgrade lately? said:


> That external power brick has to go... I realize they were trying to keep the size down, but come on. And a phone line port, really....


What's wrong with the power being remote? It will provide some flexible installation options. Without a phone jack how will one get CID info?


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## CopyCat

Nice job on the First Look, that will be a good choice for a wall mounted panel with the receiver mounted behind it. Now to wait for the HR25 with SS drive


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## tfederov

CopyCat said:


> Nice job on the First Look, that will be a good choice for a wall mounted panel with the receiver mounted behind it. Now to wait for the HR25 with SS drive


I like how this guy thinks!


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## xmguy

MY LORD, Set next to a H20 or H21 it's a midget! AWESOME. Great job guys!


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## harsh

Sixto said:


> Hmmm. Can anyone make out that Broadcom chip?


I'm guessing from the picture that it is the BCM7340 that features built-in MoCA 1.1 support.

Going to Broadcom for this setup suggests that the chipset manufacturer isn't all-important.


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## TBoneit

tfederov said:


> I knew size didn't matter. :lol:
> 
> Nice review. I'm curious though as to why they decided to have composite ports instead of component as the norm. Actually as I type this if they did that they'd still need two more RCA ports for sound. Ok. Makes sense.


Looking at the PDF it has Composite, Component & HDMI, Thus they can use it for MPEG4 SD installations as well as HD installs.

Nothing wrong with external power supplies.. Dell has been using them in business model computers to keep size and noise down for years. IE, SX280 & optiplex 745 USFF computers. Never had a bad external power supply. OTOH bad capacitors in both models, Easy enough to change however.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Thanks for the sneek peek. I think I can put it in my wallet


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## P Smith

harsh said:


> I'm guessing from the picture that it is the BCM7340 that features built-in MoCA 1.1 support.
> 
> Going to Broadcom for this setup suggests that the chipset manufacturer isn't all-important.


As I see on the muddy shot, it's BCM740x. Conspiracy rules !

[The cat is out of a bag - I see no reasons to obscure the knowledge - soon someone will get it and will post the chip's model ID. ]


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## Steve

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Engineering question. Any compelling reason for a DVR to have flash storage? What would the cost differential have to be for a company like DTV to prefer flash over hard, taking into account the extended longevity of a flash drive?





P Smith said:


> No one reason - one is big: a price, other: sectors wearing with constant DLB recording.


Ya, as *P Smith* points out, even if price (and capacity) were equal to conventional hard drives, longevity is the issue. According to this 2007 article, the problem is:


> *Write Endurance: *- The number of write cycles to any block of flash is limited - and once you've used up your quota for that block - that's it! The disk can become unreliable.


As a result, you should still never routinely defrag an SSD drive. Doing so will accelerate sector wear.


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## fornold

Steve said:


> Ya, as *P Smith* points out, even if price (and capacity) were equal to conventional hard drives, longevity is the issue. According to this 2007 article, the problem is:
> 
> The situation has improved a bit in the past year with the introduction of _multi-level_ SSD drives, but the principle is still the same. E.g., you should still never routinely defrag an SSD drive. Doing so will accelerate sector wear.


Do you mean MLC flash (multi-level cell flash) that some companies are using in SSD's now? Not sure what a multi-level SSD drive is.

If you meant MLC, the wearout is actually worse not better.


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## MysteryMan

Just got home. Was pleasently surprised when I logged onto DBSTALK. Nice work Stuart. I really enjoyed the photo gallery......thanks.


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## Steve

fornold said:


> If you meant MLC, the wearout is actually worse not better.


Yup. I did mean MLC, and you're 100% right... good pick-up. I misread the article I saw, which stated that MLC drives use improved algorithms to distribute sector writes. I made the assumption that made them superior. I'll fix my post.


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## saaso62

Read carl6's assesment, this thing does not play nice with the AM21

WORD TO DIRECTV - MAKE A NEW OTA MODULE THEN - SOME OF US WANT TO GET THE SUB CHANNELS YOU DO NOT CARRY


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## RAD

saaso62 said:


> Read carl6's assesment, this thing does not play nice with the AM21
> 
> WORD TO DIRECTV - MAKE A NEW OTA MODULE THEN - SOME OF US WANT TO GET THE SUB CHANNELS YOU DO NOT CARRY


THEN YOU CAN USE A H21/H23/H24 WITH AN AM21 IF YOU NEED OTA.

Remember most DIRECTV customers could care less about OTA and subchannels.


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## saaso62

RAD said:


> THEN YOU CAN USE A H21/H23/H24 WITH AN AM21 IF YOU NEED OTA.
> 
> Remember most DIRECTV customers could care less about OTA and subchannels.


Not when you are building a new house this Summer and will have a brand new install and H25 will be the HD reciver I buy online from 2000networks, so an actual working AM2x OTA MODULE is needed, Since DirecTV testers admitted they are not fully compatible I guess the FCC should be contacted since if they do not provide a FULLY FUNCTIONAL OTA module, they are cutting off our OTA


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## ndole

saaso62 said:


> Not when you are building a new house this Summer and will have a brand new install and H25 will be the HD reciver I buy online from 2000networks, so an actual working AM2x OTA MODULE is needed, Since DirecTV testers admitted they are not fully compatible I guess *the FCC should be contacted* since if they do not provide a FULLY FUNCTIONAL OTA module, they are cutting off our OTA


:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:!rolling!rolling!rolling


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## Mike Bertelson

saaso62 said:


> Read carl6's assesment, this thing does not play nice with the AM21
> 
> WORD TO DIRECTV - MAKE A NEW OTA MODULE THEN - SOME OF US WANT TO GET THE SUB CHANNELS YOU DO NOT CARRY


Where did you read that Carl6 had anything to say about the AM21 & the H25 because I can't find anything?

Mike


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## RAD

Mike Bertelson said:


> Where did you read that Carl6 had anything to say about the AM21 & the H25 because I can't find anything?
> 
> Mike


On page 3 he says



> While the AM21 works with the H25, it is not a great OTA solution
> due to the power cord differences.


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## Mike Bertelson

RAD said:


> On page 3 he says


Power cord differences are a far cry from "doesn't play well with"...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## RAD

saaso62 said:


> Not when you are building a new house this Summer and will have a brand new install and H25 will be the HD reciver I buy online from 2000networks, so an actual working AM2x OTA MODULE is needed, Since DirecTV testers admitted they are not fully compatible I guess the FCC should be contacted since if they do not provide a FULLY FUNCTIONAL OTA module, they are cutting off our OTA


Again, nothing says you MUST have a H25, you can always use one of the other STB's that allow for the power cord passthrough. Just because you would be a new install doesn't automatically mean you'd get a H25 anyway, remember if the order says HD receiver it could be anything from a H20 to a H25.

BTW, what cable company's STB has a built in ATSC tuner in them, AFAIK there is no requirement from the FCC that any STB MUST has ATSC tuners in them.


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## saaso62

Mike Bertelson said:


> Where did you read that Carl6 had anything to say about the AM21 & the H25 because I can't find anything?
> 
> Mike


While the AM21 works with the H25, it is not a great OTA solution
due to the power cord differences.
-DBSTalk user carl6

geee, if you would read you would have seen that on page 3 of the First Look


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## RunnerFL

saaso62 said:


> i said I would be ordering from 2000NETWORKS - SO I CAN PICK MY UNITS and not get DIRECTV'S POTLUCK


And he's not saying you're using "DirecTV's potluck"....


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## Mike Bertelson

saaso62 said:


> While the AM21 works with the H25, it is not a great OTA solution
> due to the power cord differences.
> -DBSTalk user carl6
> 
> geee, if you would read you would have seen that on page 3 of the First Look


I did read that, but as I posted above, power cord differences is a far cry from doesn't play well with.

Mike


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## ndole

saaso62 said:


> While the AM21 works with the H25, it is not a great OTA solution
> due to the power cord differences.
> -DBSTalk user carl6
> 
> geee, if you would read you would have seen that on page 3 of the First Look


At first when I started reading that post, I thought you were making a well reasoned cogent argument. Then I realized that you were quoting someone else.


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## spartanstew

Nice job Stuart.



saaso62 said:


> While the AM21 works with the H25, it is not a great OTA solution
> due to the power cord differences.
> -DBSTalk user carl6
> 
> geee, if you would read you would have seen that on page 3 of the First Look


And if you would read, you would have noticed that 1. not only was the question already answered 30 minutes before you posted it again here, but 2. it was subsequently replied to again (Power cord differences are a far cry from "doesn't play well with"...I'm just sayin) making your response obsolete.


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## RAD

saaso62 said:


> Not when you are building a new house this Summer and will have a brand new install and H25 will be the HD reciver I buy online from 2000networks, so an actual working AM2x OTA MODULE is needed, Since DirecTV testers admitted they are not fully compatible I guess the FCC should be contacted since if they do not provide a FULLY FUNCTIONAL OTA module, they are cutting off our OTA





saaso62 said:


> i said I would be ordering from 2000NETWORKS - SO I CAN PICK MY UNITS and not get DIRECTV'S POTLUCK


Sorry, didn't take the time to go check the 2000networks site to see if it was someone that sold you hardware directly or was just a retailer that took your order and then used someone like a MASTEC to do the install with the luck of the draw on what receiver you got.

With that said, I think you've set a new record for how quickly I put someone on the ignore list.


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## DodgerKing

Sixto said:


> In 2010.


OK...Since just about all network capabilities are done through Ethernet on Direct (without having to pay an extra fee), what is their proposal for free networking?


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## DodgerKing

dpeters11 said:


> There isn't one, it has DECA built in, so in that setup, it wouldn't need one. Maybe this is one reason it was highly recommended to go the supported route as opposed to ethernet for MRV etc. Just a theory.


IOW, they are forcing you to pay a monthly fee in order to network the thing? Pathetic


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## ndole

DodgerKing said:


> OK...Since just about all network capabilities are done through Ethernet on Direct (without having to pay an extra fee), what is their proposal for free networking?


These will only be going in on new swim installations. Those don't need an upgrade to access the internet (unless the install didn't include a DECABB). If you already have an Directv system, you don't need to worry about it


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## Mike Bertelson

DodgerKing said:


> IOW, they are forcing you to pay a monthly fee in order to network the thing? Pathetic


It's a receiver so the only reason to network it is for Whole Home so you would pay that fee no matter how it's networked.

Mike


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## netraa

DodgerKing said:


> OK...Since just about all network capabilities are done through Ethernet on Direct (without having to pay an extra fee), what is their proposal for free networking?


I'm going to take a wild guess here and say.

H25-xxx will be used through the HSP/O&O field services on new installs or upgrades only with bb deca and MRV compatability.

If you therefore go outside of the supported installation procedures and order one yourself outside of that protocol, your internet connection will also be on your dime.


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## steinmeg

canvasback said:


> Where is the ethernet connection?


Yes, where is the internet connection so we can enjoy the" wonderful On Demand that DirecTV gives us......


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## RAD

Mike Bertelson said:


> It's a receiver so the only reason to network it is for Whole Home so you would pay that fee no matter how it's networked.
> 
> Mike


Not correct, you can do MediaShare and TVApps on a HD receiver.


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## ndole

steinmeg said:


> Yes, where is the internet connection so we can enjoy the" wonderful On Demand that DirecTV gives us......


You can't access Directv Cinema Plus from a non-HDDVR.


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## Mike Bertelson

RAD said:


> Not correct, you can do MediaShare and TVApps on a HD receiver.


True. I forgot about that in which case I understand DodgerKing's frustration. Although, an H24 could meet his criteria.

Mike


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## steinmeg

Forgot, that this is not a DVR.


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## RAD

Mike Bertelson said:


> True. I forgot about that in which case I understand DodgerKing's frustration.
> 
> Mike


I though White on a recent call said DIRECTV would be installing internet connections for new installs (as in broadband adapters, not internet service).

Unless DIRECTV is going to stop producing H24 receivers is this really a problem since it's not like they won't have any STB's that have an ethernet connection. Guess if you JUST HAVE TO HAVE a H25 and need network connectivity then it's your dime to install a BB DECA.


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## Alebob911

Nice first look Stuart. I like the size.


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## DodgerKing

Mike Bertelson said:


> It's a receiver so the only reason to network it is for Whole Home so you would pay that fee no matter how it's networked.
> 
> Mike


No. Most of what I use my networked receivers for are things that only work through Ethernet: Mediashare (my music, pictures, ex), TV Apps (although I hardly use this).

What is funny is they still have a phone line. If one is going to get rid of old technology first, you would think they would get rid of the phone line


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## DodgerKing

Mike Bertelson said:


> True. I forgot about that in which case I understand DodgerKing's frustration. Although, an H24 could meet his criteria.
> 
> Mike


Don't get me wrong. I am not personally frustrated because of one unit and what it can or cannot do. I am just upset that they are talking away options in which the only way to continue to access those options it to pay a fee.

Without an Ethernet port, is the only way to network done through MRV? If so, it just seems like a way to get people to have to pay another fee to utilize a service they used to get for free. I am worried that this maybe just the first step in that direction.


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## ndole

DodgerKing said:


> No. Most of what I use my networked receivers for are things that only work through Ethernet: Mediashare (my music, pictures, ex), TV Apps (although I hardly use this).
> 
> What is funny is they still have a phone line. If one is going to get rid of old technology first, you would think they would get rid of the phone line


Not everyone has high speed internet. The IRD's need a return path to use PPV. Duh


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## LameLefty

DodgerKing said:


> Without an Ethernet port, is the only way to network done through MRV?


No. Networking is done through the home wiring with DECA and a SWiM install. Put a broadband DECA adapter and run it to your router or an access point (switch, etc) and you can access anything you'd need to from that receiver.


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## RAD

ndole_mbnd said:


> Not everyone has high speed internet. The IRD's need a return path to use PPV. Duh


Plus if they didn't include it folks would scream that they couldn't get Caller ID displayed on the TV.


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## DodgerKing

LameLefty said:


> No. Networking is done through the home wiring with DECA and a SWiM install. Put a broadband DECA adapter and run it to your router or an access point (switch, etc) and you can access anything you'd need to from that receiver.


At additional costs?


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## RAD

DodgerKing said:


> At additional costs?


If you don't have a DECA network already an MUST had a H25 then yes, you'd have to spend the money to get a DECA setup. Could be as cheap as a BB DECA ( there were some on EBay for under $15 dollars) and BSF's, if needed, if you a SWiM setup already.


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## DodgerKing

OK...

I stand corrected then. I didn't realize one can still access the same things through DECA.


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## RAD

DodgerKing said:


> OK...
> 
> I stand corrected then. I didn't realize one can still access the same things through DECA.


NP, everything you can do via the ethernet jack you can do via the DECA network, just need to have a broadband DECA that interconnects the coax/DECA network to your ethernet network.


----------



## DodgerKing

"RAD" said:


> NP, everything you can do via the ethernet jack you can do via the DECA network, just need to have a broadband DECA that interconnects the coax/DECA network to your ethernet network.


And you don't have to pay the MRV fee to do so?


----------



## RAD

DodgerKing said:


> And you don't have to pay the MRV fee to do so?


Nope. You ONLY have to pay the $3/month WHDVR fee if you want it active on your account. Not paying that doesn't prevent a DECA network from working.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

So could this be the same size for the external units to be used with the HR34?

And whats that A/V out for on the back, it looks like an S-video output? EDIT: Looks like its a component out but in a different design.


----------



## StangGT909

When are they going to discontinue SD receivers and make something like this the "base" receiver. I think it's still a crime that you can only get 2 HD receivers (HD-DVR + HD-Receiver) for free when signing up now a days. This tiny box can't cost any more for them to manufacture than the latest SD "base" receiver. 

You should be able to get a HD-DVR and like 5 or 6 of these things for free when signing up. And let's say charge $50 to get one after the fact.


----------



## bobcamp1

LameLefty said:


> Even more to the point, since a leading cause of failure of electronic components is overheating, moving the power supply outside the box ought to extend the lifespan pretty substantially.


It won't extend the lifespan any. It decreases reliability as you've added a connector. It does improve production yield rate.

How long is the cable between the H25 and the power brick? In my setup, the power brick has to go inside the cabinet anyway. Or it has to dangle off the back of the H25. Since there is added weight there now, the power cord might slide off by itself.

I also don't like the proprietary cable. Those things will get lost. What if you don't return it to D* after the lease is up? Will D* just eat the cost, or will they charge you $10 for that $2 cable you never used?

I'd also like to see a stand that lets the H25 stand up sideways, like a Wii. Then it even go alongside or hide behind your HDTV if you used an RF remote antenna.


----------



## LameLefty

bobcamp1 said:


> It won't extend the lifespan any. It decreases reliability as you've added a connector.


I disagree. Heat kills. The Second Law of Thermodynamics at work. Basic physics there. Remove the largest source of heat in the box and you can create a much more efficient heat dissipation system for the only real sources of heat left: the cpu/SOC and the satellite tuner chip.

And as for adding a connector being a negative, also incorrect: so long as you don't cycle the plug (and why would you?), there's no reliability issue. The design life of the connector is no doubt a few dozen cycles at least. Once you install a receiver, how often will you move it around over its lifetime? Even a couple times a year will last you 30 years.


----------



## NR4P

Nice job on the First Look Stuart.

Wonder when it will hit the market.


----------



## houskamp

bobcamp1 said:


> It won't extend the lifespan any. It decreases reliability as you've added a connector. It does improve production yield rate.
> 
> How long is the cable between the H25 and the power brick? In my setup, the power brick has to go inside the cabinet anyway. Or it has to dangle off the back of the H25. Since there is added weight there now, the power cord might slide off by itself.
> 
> I also don't like the proprietary cable. Those things will get lost. What if you don't return it to D* after the lease is up? Will D* just eat the cost, or will they charge you $10 for that $2 cable you never used?
> 
> I'd also like to see a stand that lets the H25 stand up sideways, like a Wii. Then it even go alongside or hide behind your HDTV if you used an RF remote antenna.


 Actually I'll bet the reason for external supply is easier to certify.. all you need UL approval on is the brick.. rest of receiver then falls under low voltage device rules..


----------



## Smuuth

Another great first look! Definitely CE All Star material.


----------



## codespy

LameLefty said:


> I disagree. Heat kills. The Second Law of Thermodynamics at work. Basic physics there. Remove the largest source of heat in the box and you can create a much more efficient heat dissipation system for the only real sources of heat left: the cpu/SOC and the satellite tuner chip..........


I have to agree here. Heat is the #1 killer of electrical components. Especially if stacking with other components and less than adequate ventilation and dust accumulation, it drives the temp up.

Temp up is bad.


----------



## harsh

Steve said:


> As a result, you should still never routinely defrag an SSD drive. Doing so will accelerate sector wear.


It isn't that the drive becomes unreliable, they just don't write to those "sectors" any more.


----------



## jasonblair

Regarding the external power supply, I find them to be annoying because when I am hiding wires, I twisty-tie all of my components' wires together along the back of my glass stand. When devices have an external power supply, it messes the whole thing up. Bricks are not as easy to hide, and they sometimes don't fit under the stand or in a non-conspicuous place. When you look at my stand, it looks pretty clean for the most part... But you definitely notice the Xbox 360 and Wii wiring because they can't simply be twisty-tied to the other wires due to their power bricks.

I never understood why people would rant and rave about how small the "updated" Playstation 2 design was. If you included the size of its big power brick, it probably wasn't any smaller than the original Playstation 2.


----------



## Sim-X

So they dump the ethernet jack and still have a phone jack.... hmmmm

I guess you don't need the phone jack if you are wired into a network via deca but I think they should have a ethernet jack over phone.


----------



## barryb

Sim-X said:


> So they dump the ethernet jack and still have a phone jack.... hmmmm
> 
> I guess you don't need the phone jack if you are wired into a network via deca but I think they should have a ethernet jack over phone.


Some people like the caller ID display.


----------



## bobcamp1

codespy said:


> I have to agree here. Heat is the #1 killer of electrical components. Especially if stacking with other components and less than adequate ventilation and dust accumulation, it drives the temp up.
> 
> Temp up is bad.


Temp up is fine. Most FPGAs are rated to 85 C or higher. The electronic components are rated to at least 70C. The device will be (un)lucky if its ambient temperature exceeds 40C. That puts the components worst case at 50 C. Plus, why would you take what you think are the hottest components and put them in a tiny unventilated enclosure? Temp. can't be an issue.

Less than adequate ventilation and dust? Give me a break. I can design something that will fail due to overheating in -40C weather. I can also design something that will work just fine at 70C. Temp.'s not causing that problem -- poor design is. Dust has very little impact on anything unless it exceeds 1/2 inch in depth.

The UL power supply angle is interesting, but a separate PS tends to make passing FCC Part 15 harder. You have to make sure the DC power output is very clean, because you now have an antenna broadcasting that.

Finally, the mere presence of a connector lowers reliability. High cycling simply worsens it further.

I think D* made this box for two reasons:
1. Marketing told them to make it as small as possible to show off in a commercial.
2. Looking at the inside photos, there simply aren't many non-power-supply related components left. I'm guessing that the yield rate and reliability of the "brains" was rising up to match the power supply's. In that case, it does make sense to separate them out.

Overall, it is a nice size, but with no Ethernet port and a proprietary video cable I'm not crazy about it.


----------



## LameLefty

"bobcamp1" said:


> Temp up is fine. Most FPGAs are rated to 85 C or higher. The electronic components are rated to at least 70C. The device will be (un)lucky if its ambient temperature exceeds 40C. That puts the components worst case at 50 C. Plus, why would you take what you think are the hottest components and put them in a tiny unventilated enclosure? Temp. can't be an issue.
> 
> Less than adequate ventilation and dust? Give me a break. I can design something that will fail due to overheating in -40C weather. I can also design something that will work just fine at 70C. Temp.'s not causing that problem -- poor design is. Dust has very little impact on anything unless it exceeds 1/2 inch in depth.
> 
> The UL power supply angle is interesting, but a separate PS tends to make passing FCC Part 15 harder. You have to make sure the DC power output is very clean, because you now have an antenna broadcasting that.
> 
> Finally, the mere presence of a connector lowers reliability. High cycling simply worsens it further.
> 
> I think D* made this box for two reasons:
> 1. Marketing told them to make it as small as possible to show off in a commercial.
> 2. Looking at the inside photos, there simply aren't many non-power-supply related components left. I'm guessing that the yield rate and reliability of the "brains" was rising up to match the power supply's. In that case, it does make sense to separate them out.
> 
> Overall, it is a nice size, but with no Ethernet port and a proprietary video cable I'm not crazy about it.


Please re-read the entirely of my post above. You're clearly picking and choosing. But you're welcome to believe what you want - I'll stick my engineering degree and experience designing components for environments of 0 - 4 g's, +220 F to - 220 F and pressures between vacuum and 22 psi against anyone's.


----------



## Draconis

Very well done (as usual).


----------



## TBoneit

saaso62 said:


> Not when you are building a new house this Summer and will have a brand new install and H25 will be the HD reciver I buy online from 2000networks, so an actual working AM2x OTA MODULE is needed, Since DirecTV testers admitted they are not fully compatible I guess the FCC should be contacted since if they do not provide a FULLY FUNCTIONAL OTA module, they are cutting off our OTA


Except they aren't cutting off your OTA. That would be your decision to buy something without it built-in.

Lost of luck on that one.


----------



## TBoneit

jasonblair said:


> Regarding the external power supply, I find them to be annoying because when I am hiding wires, I twisty-tie all of my components' wires together along the back of my glass stand. When devices have an external power supply, it messes the whole thing up. Bricks are not as easy to hide, and they sometimes don't fit under the stand or in a non-conspicuous place. When you look at my stand, it looks pretty clean for the most part... But you definitely notice the Xbox 360 and Wii wiring because they can't simply be twisty-tied to the other wires due to their power bricks.
> 
> I never understood why people would rant and rave about how small the "updated" Playstation 2 design was. If you included the size of its big power brick, it probably wasn't any smaller than the original Playstation 2.


right down the road from me is a electronics store. They carry several wire wrap methods to allow for a neat install.

1. is a simple spiral that wraps around the wires and they can be routed out where needed through the spiral's slot.

2. Is a black tube that has a slot running the length of it so the wires can be put into it easy.

3. Is your basic wire ties of course.

I've also seen wire tenders that you wrap the wire around and they feed out between the two flaps, they are what I'd use when the wire is too long.


----------



## TBoneit

bobcamp1 said:


> Temp up is fine. Most FPGAs are rated to 85 C or higher. The electronic components are rated to at least 70C. The device will be (un)lucky if its ambient temperature exceeds 40C. That puts the components worst case at 50 C. Plus, why would you take what you think are the hottest components and put them in a tiny unventilated enclosure? Temp. can't be an issue.
> 
> Less than adequate ventilation and dust? Give me a break. I can design something that will fail due to overheating in -40C weather. I can also design something that will work just fine at 70C. Temp.'s not causing that problem -- poor design is. Dust has very little impact on anything unless it exceeds 1/2 inch in depth.
> 
> The UL power supply angle is interesting, but a separate PS tends to make passing FCC Part 15 harder. You have to make sure the DC power output is very clean, because you now have an antenna broadcasting that.
> 
> Finally, the mere presence of a connector lowers reliability. High cycling simply worsens it further.
> 
> I think D* made this box for two reasons:
> 1. Marketing told them to make it as small as possible to show off in a commercial.
> 2. Looking at the inside photos, there simply aren't many non-power-supply related components left. I'm guessing that the yield rate and reliability of the "brains" was rising up to match the power supply's. In that case, it does make sense to separate them out.
> 
> Overall, it is a nice size, but with no Ethernet port and a proprietary video cable I'm not crazy about it.


Well if they do what I'd do that external power supply will be shielded and the wire will be shielded. One The Dell USFF Computers with the remote power supply that we sell used, Lots of them BTW, The one thing that has never given problems is the power supply or it's connectors. Bad capacitors, well that's another issue and lets just say I've become proficient at changing them.


----------



## RobertE

west99999 said:


> from what i heard from a tech is these will only be available on new installs and not allowed to be intalled on upgrades


This is correct. The H25 is designated for NEW customers only. DirecTv has already put in restrictions to prevent an installer from activating a H25 on an upgrade. Sure, someone will come along any minute and say that they got one from so and so and didn't have a problem. Exception, not the rule.


----------



## bobcamp1

LameLefty said:


> Please re-read the entirely of my post above. You're clearly picking and choosing. But you're welcome to believe what you want - I'll stick my engineering degree and experience designing components for environments of 0 - 4 g's, +220 F to - 220 F and pressures between vacuum and 22 psi against anyone's.


Well, I'm choosing the incorrect things you said. :grin:

If you want to start comparing degrees and design experience, you'll be disappointed. And I'm pretty sure the H25 won't be subjected to 4 gs or +/-220F temperatures. Don't overdesign a mass-produced consumer-grade box -- you'll get fired for making it unnecessarily complicated and expensive, as well as for lowering the production yield rate.

This isn't rocket science (sorry for the bad pun). The main reason for the power brick is to get the main box as tiny as possible so it looks good compared to their competition's boxes.

And I still want a stand so I can mount it sideways. When I was growing up, you used to be able to put the box on top of the TV. You can't do that anymore. So I'd either like to put it behind the TV, or next to my DVD player.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I will say this, completely unrelated to the H25 specifically... I do think that making the box stand on its side would be cool. I should look and see if the stand that came with the Wii would work.


----------



## ndole

If you don't think that heat is an issue, I suggest you get ahold of an H20-600. The actual failure in these boxes are wide ranging, but one thing that's true about the great majority of them is that the heat was the cause. I have around 20 in my van right now, all heat related bricks.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> Sorry, I just force-choked myself.


Leave that to those more experienced in the procedure.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Sim-X said:


> So they dump the ethernet jack and still have a phone jack.... hmmmm
> 
> I guess you don't need the phone jack if you are wired into a network via deca but I think they should have a ethernet jack over phone.


Phone line still need for those that don't have an internet connection, for the PPV and call-back information.

If you have internet, then DECA would be installed.
Thus no need for ethernet jack.


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## Drucifer

dave29 said:


> Nice First Look. The H25 looks like a great solution to put behind a wall mounted TV.


That would be nice. Does it have a bracket for wall mounting?


----------



## Drucifer

CopyCat said:


> . . . .Now to wait for the HR25 with SS drive


That same thought came to my mind until I checked out SSD prices. Hopefully SSD prices will drop like all other past electronics.


----------



## jasonblair

TBoneit said:


> right down the road from me is a electronics store. They carry several wire wrap methods to allow for a neat install.
> 
> 1. is a simple spiral that wraps around the wires and they can be routed out where needed through the spiral's slot.
> 
> 2. Is a black tube that has a slot running the length of it so the wires can be put into it easy.
> 
> 3. Is your basic wire ties of course.
> 
> I've also seen wire tenders that you wrap the wire around and they feed out between the two flaps, they are what I'd use when the wire is too long.


That is all well and good... But my point is an external power brick makes it harder to do clean-looking wiring. Even with all of your solutions, extra provisions have to be made for an external power brick. Keeping the power supply internal just looks cleaner... even if the size of the receiver is a little bigger.


----------



## Shades228

jasonblair said:


> That is all well and good... But my point is an external power brick makes it harder to do clean-looking wiring. Even with all of your solutions, extra provisions have to be made for an external power brick. Keeping the power supply internal just looks cleaner... even if the size of the receiver is a little bigger.


I would say a 50% reduction in height is moer than little. Either way you would have a wire. If you have an outlet behind the TV you can mount the brick behind the TV near the top for heat dissipation. No matter what you're going to have a wire somewhere. Either the HDMI to the TV or the power cable from the TV or whatever. If you can hide those wires you can hide this one. If you can't hide those wires then I would recommend small black zip ties, or a cable combiner as listed above.


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## smiddy

Whoa, very nice unit! Great jobs folks on the writeup!


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## compnurd

The one thing i notice here is this thing still have a phone jack. I would like to see them get the caller ID and phone somehow into the DECA cloud


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## Mike Bertelson

compnurd said:


> The one thing i notice here is this thing still have a phone jack. I would like to see them get the caller ID and phone somehow into the DECA cloud


It is a stand alone receiver so if someone doesn't have MRV or isn't connected to the network then the only way to have CID is with a direct connection...it's a guess anyway. :grin:

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet

I agree, it would nice to see caller ID over DECA but you know, you can't have it all.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## mhammett

saaso62 said:


> Read carl6's assesment, this thing does not play nice with the AM21
> 
> WORD TO DIRECTV - MAKE A NEW OTA MODULE THEN - SOME OF US WANT TO GET THE SUB CHANNELS YOU DO NOT CARRY


Lack of OTA is really disappointing.

I suppose if the H25 doesn't actually offer any new features, then to hell with it. The lack of Ethernet is the big killer for me.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

mhammett said:


> Lack of OTA is really disappointing.
> 
> I suppose if the H25 doesn't actually offer any new features, then to hell with it. The lack of Ethernet is the big killer for me.


You plug the Ethernet cable into the DECA/BB adapter and you're connected.

You just don't plug it directly into the receiver any more.

It's been three years since a new receiver has had OTA and I'd suspect it isn't going to happen any time soon either. However, the AM21 does work with the H25.

Mike


----------



## moghedien

Mike Bertelson said:


> You plug the Ethernet cable into the DECA/BB adapter and you're connected.
> 
> You just don't plug it directly into the receiver any more.
> 
> It's been three years since a new receiver has had OTA and I'd suspect it isn't going to happen any time soon either. However, the AM21 does work with the H25.
> 
> Mike


One question about the H25 and the AM21: since the plugs are different, does this mean that the H25 brick is installed between the AM21 and the H25?


----------



## carl6

moghedien said:


> One question about the H25 and the AM21: since the plugs are different, does this mean that the H25 brick is installed between the AM21 and the H25?


No.


----------



## mhammett

Mike Bertelson said:


> You plug the Ethernet cable into the DECA/BB adapter and you're connected.
> 
> You just don't plug it directly into the receiver any more.
> 
> It's been three years since a new receiver has had OTA and I'd suspect it isn't going to happen any time soon either. However, the AM21 does work with the H25.
> 
> Mike


A more thorough search of the forum didn't result in anything conclusive, but I was concerned about the DECA's throughput capabilities. For MFH3 systems, they design for 40 megabits per video stream. I assumed that DirecTV2PC, whole-home, etc. used 40 megabit as well, but some indicate it uses less.

I have managed gigabit switches at most TVs, so going to DECA would be expensive and difficult as I'd have to go SWM and upgrade some older receivers.


----------



## Drucifer

Stuart Sweet said:


> I agree, it would nice to see caller ID over DECA but you know, *you can't have it all*.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


I disagree. Everything should be available everywhere in a smart home. The first one that does it will end up being the leader. So CID on DECA should be a standard feature of DirecTV.


----------



## Laxguy

Drucifer said:


> I disagree. Everything should be available everywhere in a smart home. The first one that does it will end up being the leader. So CID on DECA should be a standard feature of DirecTV.


+1.

Though that particular feature is one I am not currently using, but may wish to do so in the future. I bet it'd be fairly easy to do on DECA'ed houses, and would give one more little bit of attraction for going DECA.

Also, deleting Mail on one receiver should delete on all (or not, but make it a toggle-able feature).


----------



## veryoldschool

Drucifer said:


> I disagree. Everything should be available everywhere in a smart home. The first one that does it will end up being the leader. So CID on DECA should be a standard feature of DirecTV.


I guess I'll need to disagree with you.
What would one do when there is more than one phone line, as is the case here?


----------



## RAD

Drucifer said:


> I disagree. Everything should be available everywhere in a smart home. The first one that does it will end up being the leader. So CID on DECA should be a standard feature of DirecTV.


I thought people have been saying that landline phones are a dying product everyone's dropping them for cells. So why spend the money deveopling something for something folks are getting rid of?


----------



## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> I guess I'll need to disagree with you.
> What would one do when there is more than one phone line, as is the case here?


Then it would show on screen as *"Line#2: 1-800-555-1212" *


----------



## Laxguy

RAD said:


> I thought people have been saying that landline phones are a dying product everyone's dropping them for cells. So why spend the money deveopling something for something folks are getting rid of?


Yes, and others say they'll be there for a very long time.

I imagine anyone who likes Caller ID now, and has or goes DECA, would like this feature. I am suspecting the programming for something like that may be a day's worth. Could be all wet; I might take a good programmer an hour- or a week.

In any event, DirecTV being able to state it's available is also worth something in the Marketing Department.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I will say I know for a fact that it is possible to push caller ID over coax. As for when or if... that's a good question. It's my understanding that caller ID was sort of a carrot to make sure people's receivers were hooked to a phone line. Of course if you have DECA (or equivalent built-in function) then you don't really have to worry about that. But in the end I have a feeling a phone jack was simply something that didn't take a lot of real estate and like a USB port, may or may not be important to the end user.


----------



## Drucifer

RAD said:


> I thought people have been saying that landline phones are a dying product everyone's dropping them for cells. So why spend the money developing something for something folks are getting rid of?


In a smart home, cell service CID would be included.


----------



## RAD

Drucifer said:


> In a smart home, cell service CID would be included.


In a smart home it would announce who's calling though out the house so you don't need to look at a TV or a phone.


----------



## xmetalx

Drucifer said:


> In a smart home, cell service CID would be included.


I was just thinking this. Interconnection of all of our home devices is not far off, I think.. another 5-10 years for full integration of our refrigerators/microwaves/tv's/smartphones/laptops/computers/stereos etc.

Personally, I LOVE this idea


----------



## RobertE

xmetalx said:


> I was just thinking this. Interconnection of all of our home devices is not far off, I think.. another 5-10 years for full integration of our refrigerators/microwaves/tv's/smartphones/laptops/computers/stereos etc.
> 
> Personally, I LOVE this idea


It's all good until the machines rise up against their masters. :eek2:


----------



## ndole

RobertE said:


> It's all good until the machines rise up against their masters. :eek2:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

xmetalx said:


> I was just thinking this. Interconnection of all of our home devices is not far off, I think.. *another 5-10 years for full integration of our refrigerators/microwaves/tv's/smartphones/laptops/computers/stereos *etc.
> 
> Personally, I LOVE this idea


I suspect its more like 2-3 years away...signs of it keep appearing more and more that this will be a reality sooner than most folks think.


----------



## P Smith

Stuart Sweet said:


> I will say I know for a fact that it is possible to push caller ID over coax. As for when or if... that's a good question. It's my understanding that caller ID was sort of a carrot to make sure people's receivers were hooked to a phone line. Of course if you have DECA (or equivalent built-in function) then you don't really have to worry about that. But in the end *I have a feeling a phone jack was simply something that didn't take a lot of real estate* and like a USB port, may or may not be important to the end user.


Actually it's taking a lot: a modem chip and high voltage components, adding to that FW routines to support secure channel (duh!).


----------



## Drucifer

xmetalx said:


> I was just thinking this. Interconnection of all of our home devices is not far off, I think.. another 5-10 years for full integration of our refrigerators/microwaves/tv's/smartphones/laptops/computers/stereos etc.
> 
> Personally, I LOVE this idea


They are supposed to do so under the new WiFi Alliance. But I suspect you still need some kind of server to control things. In most home that would be a desktop, but I also suspect the appliance server could be in other equipment like the HMC30/HR34 or whatever it's going to be end up being called.


----------



## Laxguy

RAD said:


> In a smart home it would announce who's calling though out the house so you don't need to look at a TV or a phone.


My house would be smart enough to know when I wanted such, and when I wanted it to shut its speaker....

It would startle me to have my icebox tell me that Miss Fardle was holding for me AND that we needed more milk. Progress, though, progress.....:nono2:


----------



## Laxguy

Drucifer said:


> They are supposed to do so under the new WiFi Alliance. But I suspect you still need some kind of server to control things. In most home that would be a desktop, but I also suspect the appliance server could be in other equipment like the HMC30/HR34 or whatever it's going to be end up being called.


It's already determined it's the HR34.


----------



## usnret

As long as all of this new stuff stays away from my toilet. I don't want my fridge to tell me that I need more toilet paper whilst a bunch of guests are in my kitchen. Cheeze...


----------



## Laxguy

usnret said:


> As long as all of this new stuff stays away from my toilet. I don't want my fridge to tell me that I need more toilet paper whilst a bunch of guests are in my kitchen. Cheeze...


And, yet, that's probably not as bad as your toilet talking to your fridge about what kind of cr** you're eating with guests in the kitchen! :nono2:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

A Smart House is a whole different discussion. 

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## Stuart Sweet

If there's nothing more to say on this topic... I'll close this discussion thread and save it for posterity. Anyone?


----------



## loudo

Stuart Sweet said:


> If there's nothing more to say on this topic... I'll close this discussion thread and save it for posterity. Anyone?


It sure seems to have drifted off topic. Not much more to say until they hit the market.


----------



## ATARI

Stuart Sweet said:


> If there's nothing more to say on this topic... I'll close this discussion thread and save it for posterity. Anyone?


I think we can safely stick a fork in it.


----------



## P Smith

Stuart Sweet said:


> If there's nothing more to say on this topic... I'll close this discussion thread and save it for posterity. Anyone?


No objection. Close it !


----------



## Lord Vader

Will do.


----------



## P Smith

Dark Force is not strong here.


----------



## liquidctv

_So CID on DECA should be a standard feature of DirecTV._

Indeed. I had a tough time explaining to one customer why caller ID didn't work on all the boxes, like it did with their cable boxes.

"Well, your directv boxes can stream 1080p video in real-time from one box to another, but sending a 10-digit number and a name...um...they never did that."

"Oh, so it's a software thing?"

"Yeah. They, like, never wrote it."

I would go one step further, and say they should implement Voice over Swim, so you can connect the phone jack to the splitter, and be done with it.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

It appears the discussion on the H25 has ended. If there are any other subject you’d like to discuss, feel free to start a thread.

Mike


----------

