# So, I Bought an iPad, and I'm NOT Happy.



## Rich

Last Friday, I went to the local mall's Apple Store with all intentions of buying an iPad. They didn't have any iPad2s in stock, so I bought the original iPad. I got it home and I gotta say I'm disappointed. Nothing to do with the difference between the new ones and last year's model. 

I'm used to my Droid X and thought the iPad would function much as the Droid does. Wrong. I'm not confused about the way the iPad functions, but after playing with it for two days, I found myself wondering why I wasted my money on it. 

I've got computers and laptops all over my home and their functionality is far better than the iPads, or the Droids.

My son saw what I was doing and asked me why I bothered to get the thing. I guess if a 20 year old kid who's into tech stuff pretty heavily doesn't see the point in owning one, there probably isn't a point. Or am I missing something?

I was told I could bring it back for a refund for 14 days after purchasing it and I might take it back tomorrow. I just don't see any use for it. So it's got a half million or more apps on it (I found one written by Doug Brott), who's gonna root thru all of them?

Somebody want to set me straight on this before I return it? I really don't see any reason to own it.

Rich


----------



## davring

Maybe most people aren't as easily bored as you are


----------



## tcusta00

What do you want it to do? Like you said, there's a half million apps for it. If you didn't have a reason to buy one... well. :lol: 

I use mine for news (tons of apps), light web and forum browsing, email, a few games, music, books, netflix while traveling... that's just me though.


----------



## Rich

davring said:


> Maybe most people aren't as easily bored as you are


Being easily bored is a sign of intelligence in dogs......:lol:

I guess I just expected more of "something". I dunno.

Rich


----------



## sigma1914

I think like any technology, you have to know what's good for others doesn't mean it'll be good for you. Personally, I have no use for an iPad, but many do...and that's ok. So, it's ok you aren't happy with it and you don't need to be.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> What do you want it to do? Like you said, there's a half million apps for it. If you didn't have a reason to buy one... well. :lol:
> 
> I use mine for news (tons of apps), light web and forum browsing, email, a few games, music, books, netflix while traveling... that's just me though.


I guess I expected too much. The salesman I was talking to said that they get 150 of the iPad2s in every morning and they pass out tickets to the people lined up outside the Apple Store that allows them to purchase a new model. I heard that and thought there must be a lot of goodies on them, but I really don't think I'd use it much. It does have nice speakers on it, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> I think like any technology, you have to know what's good for others doesn't mean it'll be good for you. Personally, I have no use for an iPad, but many do...and that's ok. So, it's ok you aren't happy with it and you don't need to be.


Ah, that makes me feel better! Glad I'm not the only one. 

Rich


----------



## Karen

I've been waiting for the 2nd generation iPad for months. I ordered it at 1:09am pacific time and got it a week later. Once I got it going, I was disappointed and wondered why I wanted one so much. After fooling with it for a few hours, I don't know how I ever got along with out it. I can sit in my rocking chair and do almost everything I do on my computer every day. I can surf, check my email, play games, chat, read, etc. I can do this all from the comfort of my rocking chair with a doggy sitting next to me. I love my iPad...


----------



## Davenlr

rich584 said:


> Ah, that makes me feel better! Glad I'm not the only one.
> 
> Rich


Add me to the list. I couldnt possibly see any advantage over a netbook at 1/3rd the cost. Of course, I got rid of my smartphone too, simply because the screen was to small, the monthly data rate was to high, and typing anything except a short text message with my fat fingers was an exercise in futility.


----------



## SayWhat?

Some people just simply have to have all the shiny new toys whether they need them or not.


Then there are those of us who have savings.


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> I guess I expected too much. The salesman I was talking to said that they get 150 of the iPad2s in every morning and they pass out tickets to the people lined up outside the Apple Store that allows them to purchase a new model. I heard that and thought there must be a lot of goodies on them, but I really don't think I'd use it much. It does have nice speakers on it, tho.
> 
> Rich


The question still remains... what does the iPad NOT do that you expected it to do, based on your first comment about the droid X behaving differently?



SayWhat? said:


> Some people just simply have to have all the shiny new toys whether they need them or not.
> 
> Then there are those of us who have savings.


And then there are people who manage to do both.


----------



## The Merg

tcusta00 said:


> And then there are people who manage to do both.


I surely wish that was me. :lol:

- Merg


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I have the same unanswered question for the OP...

What were your expectations for the iPad?

What doesn't it do that you expected it to do?

Without knowing those, it is difficult to say.

There are lots of cool and functional products that I have no need for... it doesn't mean they are crap, just that I don't need them.

I try to weigh my expectations against what the product is advertised to do, when determining whether I should have one or not.

So... why did you want an iPad? What doesn't it do? What did you expect it to do?

Maybe your expectations were wrong... or maybe you just don't need one. Not every high-tech component is for everyone. I, for example, have ZERO need for those Harmony and other universal remotes that people rave over. I'm fine with my multiple remotes.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

rich584 said:


> I guess I expected too much. The salesman I was talking to said that they get 150 of the iPad2s in every morning and they pass out tickets to the people lined up outside the Apple Store that allows them to purchase a new model. I heard that and thought there must be a lot of goodies on them, but I really don't think I'd use it much. It does have nice speakers on it, tho.
> 
> Rich


Rich,I'm with you. I won an iPod Touch, and ended up giving it to my Godson/nephew. I just didn't like the interface. (Yes, I know this is about the iPad, but it's essentially the same user experience on a smaller scale).

I ended up going with a new laptop with Win-7 64-bit, and I'm very happy.

By the way - want a laugh? Check out the Craigslist iPad listings. It's pretty nasty out there.


----------



## tcusta00

The Merg said:


> I surely wish that was me. :lol:
> 
> - Merg


Well, I should clarify - I don't have to have every new toy. But I manage to save and also get certain things I want, too. Like an iPad. It's about priorities, though - most people here can afford an iPad if they really wanted one. It's just that their priorities lie in other things, like DIRECTV extras. Or droids. Or other things.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> Last Friday, I went to the local mall's Apple Store with all intentions of buying an iPad. They didn't have any iPad2s in stock, so I bought the original iPad. I got it home and I gotta say I'm disappointed. Nothing to do with the difference between the new ones and last year's model.
> 
> I'm used to my Droid X and thought the iPad would function much as the Droid does. Wrong. I'm not confused about the way the iPad functions, but after playing with it for two days, I found myself wondering why I wasted my money on it.
> 
> I've got computers and laptops all over my home and their functionality is far better than the iPads, or the Droids.
> 
> My son saw what I was doing and asked me why I bothered to get the thing. I guess if a 20 year old kid who's into tech stuff pretty heavily doesn't see the point in owning one, there probably isn't a point. Or am I missing something?
> 
> I was told I could bring it back for a refund for 14 days after purchasing it and I might take it back tomorrow. I just don't see any use for it. So it's got a half million or more apps on it (I found one written by Doug Brott), who's gonna root thru all of them?
> 
> Somebody want to set me straight on this before I return it? I really don't see any reason to own it.
> 
> Rich


I'm an early adopter. For nearly thirty years I've had all the gadgets and electronics before any of my friends or family. PC, BetaMax (I didn't always pick the winner ), VHS, CD, DVD, etc. I even have both an iPhone and an Android.

This is my take on tablets. They don't really have much functionality when compared with the rather large price tag. If you're doing a lot of traveling it fulfills the needs to stay in touch and do some light computing when you're on the road. I often have several things running, e.g. email, a browser, and Word and bounce between them as needed. That's something you can't do well or even at all on a tablet.

If you don't travel than a tablet is nothing more than a smart phone without the phone. At the unveiling of the iPad, even Steve Jobs posed the question of whether or not the world was ready for something in between a smart phone and a laptop. Jobs, of course, thought the world was ready. 

For me a tablet has practically no functionality. It's too big to travel back and forth to work every day so I would only use it at home. Since, I have a laptop sitting on the table in front of me it's much more convenient to use than a tablet would be. I would only use it for things that I use my smart phone when I'm at home...texting, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I've played with both the iPad and the Xoom. They are very, very cool and if I was on the road as part of my job I would definitely have one. But, since I don't travel regularly the way I see it, tablets cost way too much for what little functionality they actually have for me.

The question I find myself asking is, what does $600-$1000 get me that I can't accomplish easier on my phone or laptop? IMHO, the cool factor isn't worth the cost.

My 3.34¢ FWIW. :grin:

Mike


----------



## harsh

As they say, there's an app for everything because, frankly, everything requires a dedicated app.


----------



## billsharpe

I picked up an iPod Touch 4th generation last fall after watching my 14-year-old grandson use an iPod Touch 3rd generation (and not just for games). It was the first Apple product I have ever purchased and I am delighted with it.

I use it for quick access to stock, weather, and news information, for listening to music (files on the iPod as well as Pandora radio), for viewing YouTube videos, and for reading library books. You cannot borrow books from your local library on the Kindle yet. Many web pages have special formats for mobile devices; the ones that don't are difficult, but not impossible, to view on the iPod.

It's also handy for use when seating in a airline coach middle seat. The small screen is actually an asset there.

I've looked at the iPad and it's a little too big for mobile use as far as I'm concerned.

...and I can plug the iPod into my HR20 USB port for easy recharging.


----------



## tcusta00

harsh said:


> As they say, there's an app for everything because, frankly, everything requires a dedicated app.


Unlike a PC, which has one app that does everything. :scratchin


----------



## houskamp

guess that's the main reason I don't buy things I don't have a known use for.. 


That and I'm poor too :lol:


----------



## harsh

tcusta00 said:


> Unlike a PC, which has one app that does everything. :scratchin


You can do an awful lot of what you might do with an iPad with just a web browser and a demand downloaded Flash or Java app on a Pee Cee.

You'll let me know when you don't have to visit the Apple App Store to locate and fetch an app to do something interesting with an iPad, right?


----------



## Karen

The reason I chose an iPad over a laptop was because I have dogs that want part of my lap. The iPad works better in that situation. I still fondle the MacBook air every time I go to best buy tho...


----------



## Rich

SayWhat? said:


> Some people just simply have to have all the shiny new toys whether they need them or not.


Nothing wrong with trying those toys out. Kinda bummed out about it tho.



> Then there are those of us who have savings.


I'm not short on money, just stuff to spend it on. Annoying how little there is for men to buy and so much for women to buy.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> The question still remains... what does the iPad NOT do that you expected it to do, based on your first comment about the droid X behaving differently?


They do about the same things, I think that's why I couldn't see spending all that money for the iPad. Thing you gotta remember about me is that even tho I've got more money than I'll ever spend, I still recall what it's like to be broke and I'm kinda...tight with my money. Even getting the Droid was traumatic. Also, I've grown accustomed to the Droid and it's OS and learning a whole new OS kinda discouraged me. Especially when the Android XOOM is coming out. That might be more up my alley.



> And then there are people who manage to do both.


I didn't know whether that was a dig or not, so I took the high road and didn't assume it was. 

Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich

harsh said:


> You can do an awful lot of what you might do with an iPad with just a web browser and a demand downloaded Flash or Java app on a Pee Cee.
> 
> You'll let me know when you don't have to visit the Apple App Store to locate and fetch an app to do something interesting with an iPad, right?


DIRECTV Hat off, personal comment here.

So.....

Explain to me the difference between:
- Go to a company's website, and download their Flash, Java, or other Web based technology application (or run it through their website such as AJAX)

Vs

- Go to the App Store, find the app from the company, and download an App?

Where in the later, the app is built, designed, and configured for the OS of choice.

Where in the former, in main cases, the attempt with those mechanisms is to do it once that will cover multiple OS's and enviornments

There are pro's and con's to both models and styles... but at least in this context... going to a website and downloading an "app", is no different then going to an App Store and downloading an app.


----------



## Rich

Stewart Vernon said:


> I have the same unanswered question for the OP...
> 
> What were your expectations for the iPad?


I really don't know. I just wanted one. I guess I expected a "super Droid".



> What doesn't it do that you expected it to do?


Nothing. It's about what I expected. I'd rather use a computer. It's also not something I'd carry around with me constantly as I do my Droid X. More of an "impulse" buy than something I needed.



> Without knowing those, it is difficult to say.


I think I've answered your questions as well as I could.



> Maybe your expectations were wrong... or maybe you just don't need one. Not every high-tech component is for everyone. I, for example, have ZERO need for those Harmony and other universal remotes that people rave over. I'm fine with my multiple remotes.


I agree with you there. Even in this room where I have six remotes around me, I don't have an urge to buy a universal remote.

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

"harsh" said:


> You can do an awful lot of what you might do with an iPad with just a web browser and a demand downloaded Flash or Java app on a Pee Cee.
> 
> You'll let me know when you don't have to visit the Apple App Store to locate and fetch an app to do something interesting with an iPad, right?


Show me a must-have flash website that I've had to download an app for. I'll wait. Otherwise the iPad browser does everything I've asked my computer based browser to do.


----------



## Rich

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Rich,I'm with you. I won an iPod Touch, and ended up giving it to my Godson/nephew. I just didn't like the interface. (Yes, I know this is about the iPad, but it's essentially the same user experience on a smaller scale).


My son's got an iPod Touch and he wasn't even interested in the iPad.



> I ended up going with a new laptop with Win-7 64-bit, and I'm very happy.


I'll probably end up getting a big plasma, my wife is sure not getting that money back. I'd like to get something for my birthday for a change.



> By the way - want a laugh? Check out the Craigslist iPad listings. It's pretty nasty out there.


I'll do that. I've only checked eBay and I've seen some strange things on iPad listings there. The oddest one I saw was an iPad2 going for $76 with just a couple minutes to go. Then I looked at the shipping price. $1000. Truth.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Well, I should clarify - I don't have to have every new toy. But I manage to save and also get certain things I want, too. Like an iPad. It's about priorities, though - most people here can afford an iPad if they really wanted one. It's just that their priorities lie in other things, like DIRECTV extras. Or droids. Or other things.


Running out of "things". I'm serious, it's not fair. My wife is always buying stuff and I do try to keep up, but I can't. Just not fair......:lol:

Rich


----------



## spartanstew

I'm sure I'll end up getting a tablet at some point this year, but only because I travel a lot and a tablet seems to be more convenient in airports, on planes, and while driving the rental car.

If it weren't for that, I doubt I'd ever get one. I'm sitting on the couch using my laptop right now and have no issue with it.


----------



## Rich

billsharpe said:


> I picked up an iPod Touch 4th generation last fall after watching my 14-year-old grandson use an iPod Touch 3rd generation (and not just for games). It was the first Apple product I have ever purchased and I am delighted with it.
> 
> I use it for quick access to stock, weather, and news information, for listening to music (files on the iPod as well as Pandora radio), for viewing YouTube videos, and for reading library books. You cannot borrow books from your local library on the Kindle yet. Many web pages have special formats for mobile devices; the ones that don't are difficult, but not impossible, to view on the iPod.
> 
> It's also handy for use when seating in a airline coach middle seat. The small screen is actually an asset there.
> 
> I've looked at the iPad and it's a little too big for mobile use as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...and I can plug the iPod into my HR20 USB port for easy recharging.


Same thing the Droid X does.

As for books, I like books. And I read so much that if I had to buy them it would cost a lot. We've got a statewide library system, so I just order what I want and it costs me nothing. I even like the way books smell and feel.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Karen said:


> The reason I chose an iPad over a laptop was because I have dogs that want part of my lap. The iPad works better in that situation. I still fondle the MacBook air every time I go to best buy tho...


I did look at the laptop Macs. They looked really nice. But, as I said, we've got so many computers around the house I couldn't justify buying one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> I'm sure I'll end up getting a tablet at some point this year, but only because I travel a lot and a tablet seems to be more convenient in airports, on planes, and while driving the rental car.
> 
> If it weren't for that, I doubt I'd ever get one. I'm sitting on the couch using my laptop right now and have no issue with it.


They have Blue Tooth keyboards, mice and speakers for the iPad so you can turn it into a laptop with a 10" screen......:lol:

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> I did look at the laptop Macs. They looked really nice. But, as I said, we've got so many computers around the house I couldn't justify buying one.
> 
> Rich


Macbook Pros are the bomb. The build quality is just beyond anything you've ever experienced in a laptop.


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> I agree with you there. Even in this room where I have six remotes around me, I don't have an urge to buy a universal remote.
> 
> Rich


You guys don't know what you're missing with the Harmony One. Seriously. I never thought I could justify spending $100+ on a remote but now I can't live without it.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Macbook Pros are the bomb. The build quality is just beyond anything you've ever experienced in a laptop.


You're preaching to the choir. We used Macs at work for years and they were great. Kinda hard to buy one with a $1000 Lenovo 17" laptop sitting in front of my tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> You guys don't know what you're missing with the Harmony One. Seriously. I never thought I could justify spending $100+ on a remote but now I can't live without it.


But, I don't think I could buy just one. Twelve HRs, four sound systems, 7 plasma TVs. Get the idea? 

It's kinda like the argument about putting a UPS on your TVs. I'd have to buy seven of them.

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> But, I don't think I could buy just one. Twelve HRs, four sound systems, 7 plasma TVs. Get the idea?
> 
> It's kinda like the argument about putting a UPS on your TVs. I'd have to buy seven of them.
> 
> Rich


In one room?!?! :eek2::eek2::eek2:

Man I wish you lived next door to me during football season.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> But, I don't think I could buy just one. Twelve HRs, four sound systems, 7 plasma TVs. Get the idea?
> 
> It's kinda like the argument about putting a UPS on your TVs. I'd have to buy seven of them.
> 
> Rich


True but the MX-880 can replace all of those remotes plus an additional 29 devices...in IR or RF...and your lighting too. 

Actually there are plenty universals that can control all your A/V equipment and then some. All in one remote. 

Mike


----------



## The Merg

I think one of the pros of the iPad compared to the laptop/netbook is it's instant availability capability. You hit the power button and your on your way. With the laptop/netbook, you might have to wait for it to power up, login, etc...

When the wife is on the desktop, I'll grab my iPod Touch and sit in front of the TV to check out DBSTalk or my e-mail. A co-worker of mine has not used his laptop since getting his iPad. He basically only uses the web, checks e-mail, and plays some games. That, along with the possibility, of a 10 hour battery on the iPad2, is a reason many see the iPad as a laptop replacement.

I know that with the Trillian app and GoDocs app (Google Docs) for the iPhone/iPad, my wife could very well get away with only using the iPad.

- Merg


----------



## Herdfan

tcusta00 said:


> You guys don't know what you're missing with the Harmony One. Seriously. I never thought I could justify spending $100+ on a remote but now I can't live without it.


And you Harmony guys don't know what your missing compared to URC. 

Back to the topic: I have an iPad and I love it. But I love it for what it is good for. If I am sitting watching TV, and want to look something up quickly, I will grab it instead of firing up the laptop. The last few trips I have left the laptop at home and just taken the iPad. It is much easier to travel with. My daughter uses it to play games on car trips as it is better on eye strain that her Touch.

I do not see it however as a laptop or desktop replacement, although I know of 2 professionals (1 Dr., 1 Lawyer) that have done just that.


----------



## tcusta00

"Herdfan" said:


> And you Harmony guys don't know what your missing compared to URC.


Are they better? Never tried one, been hooked on my Harmony for a few years now. It's my first aftermarket universal.


----------



## Justin23

"The Merg" said:


> I think one of the pros of the iPad compared to the laptop/netbook is it's instant availability capability. You hit the power button and your on your way. With the laptop/netbook, you might have to wait for it to power up, login, etc...
> 
> When the wife is on the desktop, I'll grab my iPod Touch and sit in front of the TV to check out DBSTalk or my e-mail. A co-worker of mine has not used his laptop since getting his iPad. He basically only uses the web, checks e-mail, and plays some games. That, along with the possibility, of a 10 hour battery on the iPad2, is a reason many see the iPad as a laptop replacement.
> 
> I know that with the Trillian app and GoDocs app (Google Docs) for the iPhone/iPad, my wife could very well get away with only using the iPad.
> 
> - Merg


I just DL'ed the "LogMeIn Ignition" app for iPad and can access my work laptop from anywhere in the world. I've had my iPad since last July and is truly is a revolutionary device. I think there are people that buy one and are expecting an immediate WOW factor with the iPad right out of the box. It look me a week or 2 to get the hang of the device. It was easier for me since I've had an iPhone and was used to the iOS. People coming from Android might find it cumbersome at first...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

tcusta00 said:


> Are they better? Never tried one, been hooked on my Harmony for a few years now. It's my first aftermarket universal.


I have two URC's and a Harmony. Functionally they're identical. How they're programmed is a bit different.

The URC remotes can have macros up to 255 steps while the Harmony's are limited to 5 steps...there are ways to increase that though.

Other than macros, they are functionally the same.

Mike


----------



## Nick

I have my laptop on the swinging side tray of one of my two (imported from Oslo, Norway) Ekornes® Stressless™ butter-soft leather recliners. The matching attached swivel tray swings over my lap when needed or out of the way with a nudge when not. I don't have to hold it up with one hand, don't need to buy a keyboard or a custom foldable protective case for it.

Since I type with one hand, I have no need for a device that won't stand on its own, and because my laptop is so conveniently situated, my right hand is able to reach for my coffee cup while my afflicted left hand holds on to the left arm of my chair for dear life. 

To me, an iPad or any similar device that won't stand on its own would be about as useful as a boneless chicken.


----------



## SayWhat?

Considering that this thread has also mentioned iPods and the Apple Store, it seems Steve-O has some s'plainin' to do:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/03/24/35228.htm


----------



## SayWhat?

Earl Bonovich said:


> Explain to me the difference between:
> - Go to a company's website, and download their Flash, Java, or other Web based technology application (or run it through their website such as AJAX)
> 
> Vs
> 
> - Go to the App Store, find the app from the company, and download an App?


The first is FREE.


----------



## phrelin

I've said it before....

On April 20, 2010 after we got our first iPad (both my wife and I have one now), I posted in my blog after a lengthy explanation and followed by more lengthy explanation:


> In other words, it is a handy ...well... it's a ideal-sized-screen ebook, and with a notepad, calculator, web access point (when wifi is available), background music player, etc.
> 
> It isn't a techie toy. It's specifically not a personal computer. I think that Steve Jobs has been trying to make it clear that it is not a next-generation or niche computer. It is not a phone, thank God. It is what it is.
> 
> It is an extension of your individuality.
> 
> To a satisfactory degree apps make what it is "customizable" for each person. Hence, for our home it might become "the cookbook" as it theoretically could replace hundreds of cookbooks. And in our home when the Slingbox folks finish the iPad App (they have an iPhone App), it might be a handy portable TV.


Among several posts here which say much the same thing was this one which in part said:


phrelin said:


> Truthfully, there are still many homes in which the only computers present are in a closet. People buy stuff they will never use.
> 
> As I've said before, figure out what you're going to use it for before buying an iPad. They aren't free and they aren't useful for everyone.


We both read books on our iPads. That's what we bought them for. I regularly read newspapers and magazines on it. May wife uses it to access cookbooks and store recipes. We us it to watch TV using our Slingbox. And I occasional post here from mine.

Ours are wifi only, we have a Verizon MiFi to use when wifi access is not otherwise available.

Our youngest son (age 49) travels a lot for work. He bought one primarily to watch movies on, though he also is a heavy reader. His iPhone screen was just too small.

Some will disagree with me, probably because I'm old and not as adaptable as I used to be. IMHO the iPad is no substitute for a computer when maintaining our web site. Even though the iPad2 has the power, I cannot imagine trying to do sophisticated graphics on it on any regular basis. We do have the apps QuickOffice and Adobe Ideas. But I still can't imagine doing much work on it.

Let me reiterate, figure out what you're going to use it for before buying an iPad. You will find other things to do with it. But buy it for a purpose.

EDIT: I want to emphasize that in our computer filled house it is the only Apple product we own. We had a Sony Reader (model 1 or something) so we knew we liked having a reader. Having a serious dislike of skin cancer which occurs in my family and killed one of my cousins, we don't spend time in the bright sunlight, so the glare issue was not a problem for our reading.


----------



## swyman18

While sitting on the toilet, it is easier to browse the dbstalk forums with an iPad or iPhone than it is with a laptop.

Cue disturbing images...


----------



## The Merg

SayWhat? said:


> The first is FREE.


I've only bought two apps from the App Store... Angry Birds and Tapatalk... All others, including many other sites I visit, supply their app for free.

- Merg


----------



## Nick

> While sitting on the toilet, it is easier to browse the dbstalk forums with an iPad or iPhone than it is with a laptop.
> 
> Cue disturbing images...


Be sure your built-in web cam is disabled!


----------



## Chris Blount

The Merg said:


> I think one of the pros of the iPad compared to the laptop/netbook is it's instant availability capability. You hit the power button and your on your way. With the laptop/netbook, you might have to wait for it to power up, login, etc...
> 
> When the wife is on the desktop, I'll grab my iPod Touch and sit in front of the TV to check out DBSTalk or my e-mail. A co-worker of mine has not used his laptop since getting his iPad. He basically only uses the web, checks e-mail, and plays some games. That, along with the possibility, of a 10 hour battery on the iPad2, is a reason many see the iPad as a laptop replacement.


These are pretty much my feelings. The iPad for me is a tool and simply augments my laptop and desktop. Doesn't replace them.

Rich, it sounds like you already have enough gadgets and probably don't need the iPad. It also sounds like you have already made up your mind about taking it back. Maybe wait until tablet technology evolves into something that might be useful for you.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> In one room?!?! :eek2::eek2::eek2:
> 
> Man I wish you lived next door to me during football season.


They each have their own rooms. They just keep getting together when we sleep and they just keep multiplying.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich

SayWhat? said:


> The first is FREE.


Okay...
But most apps from companies that have corresponding "web apps" are typically free. Sure there will be exceptions, but a large majority are free.

And even those that are not free, What $0.99, $1.99 ?


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> These are pretty much my feelings. The iPad for me is a tool and simply augments my laptop and desktop. Doesn't replace them.
> 
> Rich, it sounds like you already have enough gadgets and probably don't need the iPad. It also sounds like you have already made up your mind about taking it back. Maybe wait until tablet technology evolves into something that might be useful for you.


Yup, I'm taking it back today. I do have enough gadgets and the topper was I offered it to my son instead of taking it back and he didn't want it.

I've tried not to let any criticism of the iPad creep into my posts. It is a nice device, I just don't see the need for it. I don't even feel any "buyer's remorse".

I have always looked upon computers as a tool, having used so many different Macs and PCs when I was working.

Even the HP desktop I'm typing this on is just used as a portal to the Internet and for email and shopping on Amazon. Aside from that, I don't really "need" it as I "need" D* and all my streaming devices. I've never watched a TV show on it altho it does have a 24" 1080p TV used as it's monitor.

Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Nick said:


> I have my laptop on the swinging side tray of an imported Ekornes® Stressless™ leather recliner. The tray swings over my lap when needed or out of the way with a nudge when not. I don't have to hold it up with one hand, don't need to buy a keyboard or a custom foldable case for it. Since I type with only one hand, I have no need for a device that won't stand on its own, and because my laptop is so conveniently situated, my right hand is able to reach fir my coffee cup while my afflicted left hand holds on to the left arm of my chair for dear life.
> 
> To me, an iPad or any similar device would be about as useful as a boneless chicken.


Serve me up some boneless chicken then... (So much better at Buffalo Wild Wings , IMHO).

My iPad, sits on the small shelf next to my sofa. I reach over, and pick it up.
Tap the home button to wake it up, about 0.5 seconds later the screen is up ready to lookup what I want when I am on the sofa.

Don't need to worry about the keyboard, our mouse.. it is already there.

I can pull up I want in seconds, with just a tap, look up the info... read an article... check a score, bid on an auction. Close the cover an done.

Nearly 10 hours on a charge, I can leave it there next to the sofa and be pretty confident it has a charge.

As for the case to hold it up, since most apps are deisgned for a single finger... not a monster effort to hold it up or lean it against my knees while lounging on the sofa.

As for the case #2; The extra cover/case is no different then buying a laptop sleeve or bag, IMHO.

When I first saw the specs for an iPad... I lauged and really thought it was way over priced, for what it does. While I think it is still overpriced, it certainly is a valuable device.

My HP Netbook, has now been relegated to a Streaming Audio Player, and that is mostly because it is "there" and why not have it do something while sitting there


----------



## Rich

Earl Bonovich said:


> Okay...
> But most apps from companies that have corresponding "web apps" are typically free. Sure there will be exceptions, but a large majority are free.
> 
> And even those that are not free, What $0.99, $1.99 ?


The most expensive one I've seen on my Droid is the Oxford English Dictionary. $29.95. Seems terribly expensive when compared to most of the other apps, but I've got an urge to buy it. I do enjoy a good dictionary.

Rich


----------



## harsh

tcusta00 said:


> Show me a must-have flash website that I've had to download an app for. I'll wait. Otherwise the iPad browser does everything I've asked my computer based browser to do.


Facebook?


----------



## Earl Bonovich

harsh said:


> Facebook?


Facebook App is FREE, on all platforms.

And their website is designed to work well in the browser of these tablet/mobile devices.

So other then watching video (which many now support the mobile OS) and maybe some of the games..
(The vast majority of Facebook isn't Flash, it is AJAX or other similar client side processing)

The core and some of the advanced features of Facebook work perfrectly, and sometimes even better.

(Like the native hook in's to the camera, photos, and GPS)


----------



## dpeters11

rich584 said:


> The most expensive one I've seen on my Droid is the Oxford English Dictionary. $29.95. Seems terribly expensive when compared to most of the other apps, but I've got an urge to buy it. I do enjoy a good dictionary.
> 
> Rich


On iPhone and iPad, it's $55. Of course considering subscribing online is $300 a year, or $30 a month, $30 or even $55 is cheap.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Nick said:


> I have my laptop on the swinging side tray of an imported Ekornes® Stressless™ leather recliner. The tray swings over my lap when needed or out of the way with a nudge when not. I don't have to hold it up with one hand, don't need to buy a keyboard or a custom foldable case for it. Since I type with only one hand, I have no need for a device that won't stand on its own, and because my laptop is so conveniently situated, my right hand is able to reach fir my coffee cup while my afflicted left hand holds on to the left arm of my chair for dear life.
> 
> To me, an iPad or any similar device would be about as useful as a boneless chicken.


I don't compare the iPad to a PC. To me it's simply another technology.

For me, it is the best remote I've ever had. It controls my whole A/V system. I store and stream my whole music collection via my iPad. I can be in the back yard, grab my iPad and stream music to my outside speakers. My wife is pregnant, shortly I'll be using it for a baby monitor. The battery last forever and my lap never gets hot. If I need to look up something on the internet, I can research and find the answer before my laptop even boots up.

The iPad will never replace the PC. However, it does have a permanent place in my house.


----------



## barryb

How did flash get to be such a thorn in my side anyhow. 

My iPad is my second most-used gadget (cell phone being the first).


----------



## harsh

Earl Bonovich said:


> Facebook App is FREE, on all platforms.


The price isn't the issue. The issue is that you benefit significantly from going through an app store and downloading an app.

I've used Facebook with and without the app and it is two different experiences. My Bejeweled Blitz scores are considerably higher with the app.


----------



## harsh

Those who don't think Steve Jobs is planning on replacing the Pee Cee with a tablet were obviously off-line during the iPad 2 introduction.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hutchinshouse said:


> I don't compare the iPad to a PC. To me it's simply another technology.


Over time...I bet more people will.

However, for tablet devices to have a lasting broad acceptance and market acceptability, they will have to actually DO SOMETHING besides the current limited things they can do.

I suspect the Apple, Windows, and Android folks are in agreement, which is why they already show signs of plans for evolving these beyond current functionality.

I don't buy into classifying them as a "toy", however, I do see them as having much more than Internet, multimedia, and a few other key things (at this time). I have plenty of powerful graphically-based remotes. Since they can't do many things I can currently do on a PC, they seem to be a solution without a problem (again, at this time).

For that reason, I suspect a number of folks are sitting on the sidelines until tablets gain functionality. In my case, if it can't do most of what a laptop does, it's of little value. I can do all the other things a tablet can do with existing devices.

I'm on the sidelines along with others for now.


----------



## Karen

People will still need to have a computer along with the iPad as long as you need to do updates via iTunes. As much as I hate iTunes, I love my iPad! <g>


----------



## Earl Bonovich

harsh said:


> Those who don't think Steve Jobs is planning on replacing the Pee Cee with a tablet were obviously off-line during the iPad 2 introduction.


I fully expect the MacBook Air, to become an iPad with a physicall keyboard.
It wont' take long, that is Apple's Plan...

And really a Tablet, is nothing more then a very specialized PC (IMHO).

I was at the Adler Planitarium a couple weekends back. Looking at the equipment on the Mercury capsule on display. And it really hit me. Most of our space program, is on computers that are magintudes less powerfull, then the iPhone I had in my pocket, let alone the iPad.

Look at the tough books that service guys carry (I worked on the systems that Sears used about 7 years ago)... Device like the iPad and Otter case on it, RADICALLY reduce the cost, and can increase the functionality. If it get's damaged, you are not talking $2,000 replace...

The PC is not going away any time soon. But then the PC today, is not the PC of just 2 years ago, let alone 10 years agao...

I am shoping for a "tower" so I can beef it up to do some video editing. Have you been to Best Buy lately? They only had 4 towers, and about 20 different laptops. And my Best Buy is one of the larger ones in the area.

It's the just the way things are changing.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Over time...I bet more people will.
> 
> However, for tablet devices to have a lasting broad acceptance and market acceptability, they will have to actually DO SOMETHING besides the current limited things they can do.


Completely agree...

But I can easily see (and we already do), see the tablet becoming device #2, #3, #4 in the house... then Laptop #2, #3, #4

I can see families going back to one maybe two computers in the house for the family (other then everyone having their own).

And using the tablets, and other smart devices as the "personal" device for the email, music, browsing.

I even think the tablets are going to make the Gaming Systems that much more popular. Why? (noted just in the last post), at Best Buy this weekend. Their PC game section was 1 side of 1 row. No Joke... that was it. I remember when there were entire stores dedidated to PC Games (remember EggHead ?)

This is a transition time for the technology


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Earl Bonovich said:


> I can see families going back to one maybe two computers in the house for the family (other then everyone having their own).
> 
> And using the tablets, and other smart devices as the "personal" device for the email, music, browsing.


Exactly how it is here. We used to have two Macbooks. Now we have 1 Macbook Pro and 1 iPad... and sometimes we fight over the iPad. 

I do still have an iMac upstairs for work... and a Win7 PC that rarely gets touched.. but I'm talking about for personal stuff, it's those two devices that are primary.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Earl Bonovich said:


> This is a transition time for the technology


I agree...and watching the transformation is interesting for sure.

Like others, I also see this as a complimentary device, as opposed to a laptop replacement.

That said, the closer they resemble each other in terms of base capabilities would probably be a plus, especially for frequent travels like me. I could see that a tablet would be taken on certain business trips (instead of a laptop), as long as the right capabilities were supported. The lighter weight and smaller size would be appealing in those cases.

Heck - I used to do PowerPoint presentations with a PocketPC (connected to a projector) years ago.


----------



## klang

My wife completely replaced her MacBook Pro with an iPad. That is all she uses for both personal and business travel. I have an iPad 2 on the way. It will replace my MacBook Air. I mostly use a portable for travel and light home use.

We both have desktop systems for heavier tasks, currently 27" iMacs. In our house the iPad is replacing laptops.


----------



## Steve

Earl Bonovich said:


> [...] This is a transition time for the technology


Yup. And the reason Microsoft better get Windows 8 out the door sooner rather than later. As a veteran Microsoft columnist recently observed: _"Anyone who's used a Windows 7 tablet PC knows that a bigger Start button and taskbar aren't enough."_

An OS designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind isn't optimal for tablets, but a tablet OS can work nicely with a mouse and keyboard, IMHO. Apple and Google understood that right away. I believe HP and Microsoft now get that too. E.g., HP's CEO recently announced that every phone, tablet and computer it ships in 2012 will be capable of running WebOS, and rumors are Dell is planning to release a Windows "8" tablet in Q1 2012.


----------



## sigma1914

Steve said:


> Yup. And the reason Microsoft better get Windows 8 out the door sooner rather than later. As a veteran Microsoft columnist recently observed: _"Anyone who's used a Windows 7 tablet PC knows that a bigger Start button and taskbar aren't enough."_
> 
> An OS designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind isn't optimal for tablets, but a tablet OS can work nicely with a mouse and keyboard, IMHO. Apple and Google understood that right away. I believe HP and Microsoft now get that too. E.g., HP's CEO recently announced that every phone, tablet and computer it ships in 2012 will be capable of running WebOS, and rumors are Dell is planning to release a Windows "8" tablet in Q1 2012.


I just hope they don't forget us mouse users. My limited dexterity limits me to a mouse and renders touch-screen tablets useless to me. I do like seeing iPads and such in use & wish I could use them, but it's all good.


----------



## Steve

sigma1914 said:


> I just hope they don't forget us mouse users. My limited dexterity limits me to a mouse and renders touch-screen tablets useless to me. I do like seeing iPads and such in use & wish I could use them, but it's all good.


Ya. I could be wrong, but I don't see why a tablet OS's UI can't work just as well with a virtual "mouse" finger as it does with a real one. Just my .02.


----------



## sigma1914

Steve said:


> Ya. I could be wrong, but I don't see why a tablet OS's UI can't work just as well with a virtual "mouse" finger as it does with a real one. Just my .02.


iPads don't have mouse capabilities, correct?


----------



## Steve

sigma1914 said:


> iPads don't have mouse capabilities, correct?


Correct. My speculation is we'll see iOS on Mac laptops before long, just like we'll see HP's WebOS as an option on their laptops in 2012.


----------



## sigma1914

Steve said:


> Correct. My speculation is we'll see iOS on Mac laptops before long, just like we'll see HP's WebOS as an option on their laptops in 2012.


I just found out you can use a mouse if you jailbreak the iPad. It's very cool and now has me considering one. :eek2:


----------



## Steve

sigma1914 said:


> I just found out you can use a mouse if you jailbreak the iPad. It's very cool and now has me considering one. :eek2:


Interesting. I know you can use it with a Bluetooth keyboard. Didn't know about the mouse.

OTOH, Motorola is considering officially supporting a Xoom bluetooth mouse in the future. Xoom 32 GB WiFi went on sale at Staples today for the same price as a comparable iPad2, $599.


----------



## sigma1914

Now, I need to find anyone who's jailbreaked their iPad to get the pros/cons. Didn't courts determine it's legal, but Apple voids the warranty?


----------



## billsharpe

spartanstew said:


> I'm sure I'll end up getting a tablet at some point this year, but only because I travel a lot and a tablet seems to be more convenient in airports, on planes, and *while driving the rental car.
> *
> If it weren't for that, I doubt I'd ever get one. I'm sitting on the couch using my laptop right now and have no issue with it.


I just hope it's a voice app you're talking about here...


----------



## Rich

dpeters11 said:


> On iPhone and iPad, it's $55. Of course considering subscribing online is $300 a year, or $30 a month, $30 or even $55 is cheap.


Huh. Didn't know you could subscribe to a dictionary. Well, I guess $29.99 isn't so bad at all.

Rich


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> I just found out you can use a mouse if you jailbreak the iPad. It's very cool and now has me considering one. :eek2:


I can't stand not using a mouse on our laptops. We've all got a USB mouse on ours.

Rich


----------



## billsharpe

SayWhat? said:


> Considering that this thread has also mentioned iPods and the Apple Store, it seems Steve-O has some s'plainin' to do:
> 
> http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/03/24/35228.htm


I guess I'm missing something from that link. I bought some MP3's from eMusic on my desktop PC and had no trouble copying them to my iPod Touch and playing them there.


----------



## Rich

Well, I returned the iPad and I think I'll wait for a while along with the *FAN* while the technology evolves.

There were some comments about the "wow" factor earlier in the thread. I'm just going thru a "wow" period with my new Braun shaver and I guess I thought the experience with the iPad would be something like that.

The return was very simple and I experienced no hassles. Very friendly people inhabit Apple Stores.

Rich


----------



## spartanstew

billsharpe said:


> I just hope it's a voice app you're talking about here...


Depends where I'm driving. There's a lot of open road in this country.


----------



## dpeters11

rich584 said:


> Huh. Didn't know you could subscribe to a dictionary. Well, I guess $29.99 isn't so bad at all.
> 
> Rich


Well, the OED isn't exactly a standard dictionary. I think the current version is 20 volumes, and the 3rd edition that was started being worked on in the mid 90s won't be finished until about 2037 with an estimated 40 volumes.


----------



## Sixto

I've found that the more that I've had the iPad, the more useful it has become. Couldn't imagine now not having it.

Especially great when traveling ... in airport, on train, on plane, anything out of the home where content is desired and a larger screen (then a smartphone) is desired ... TV content and movies especially great on the plane.

Haven't been much of a reader in the past, but now when I find an interesting topic then the Kindle App and/or iBooks are great.

Have done away with all home newspapers and magazines. Now have easy access to anything that was paper before.

Been keeping up-to-date with Twitter, Google Reader and Forum Runner for all news and forums, the laptop now never leaves the dock when in the home. DBSTalk is easy as can be with Forum Runner around the home.

Looking forward to the MLB At Bat App this year during the season. Slick App. Been playing with it during spring training.

Starting to experiment with Note Taking Apps, to try going paperless.

Also been using the SiriusXM App alot recently.

Could go on and on, but finding new uses all the time ...


----------



## DCSholtis

rich584 said:


> I'm not short on money, just stuff to spend it on. Annoying how little there is for men to buy and so much for women to buy.
> 
> Rich


So true....So true. :lol:


----------



## Rich

dpeters11 said:


> Well, the OED isn't exactly a standard dictionary. I think the current version is 20 volumes, and the 3rd edition that was started being worked on in the mid 90s won't be finished until about 2037 with an estimated 40 volumes.


I didn't know that either. I was just on their website the other day looking at the "new" words that they have added. Guess I should have looked farther. 

Rich


----------



## TBoneit

tcusta00 said:


> Well, I should clarify - I don't have to have every new toy. But I manage to save and also get certain things I want, too. Like an iPad. It's about priorities, though - most people here can afford an iPad if they really wanted one. It's just that their priorities lie in other things, like DIRECTV extras. Or droids. Or other things.


I'm not so sure that most here can afford a iPad. 
There are more and more posts from people looking to reduce their bill. 
More posts from people that are dropping premiums or going streaming video + OTA only.

I could afford an iPad, however I can think of better things to do with my money including saving it for a rainy day. I have a desktop computer that gets used once a week, sometimes twice a week and a laptop computer that gets used twice a month for bill paying and online banking. The rest of the family have cell phones, basic phone only BTW. I can't see the attraction 
myself.

My DVR, Media player and Netflix are more than I need for my free time without another time waster. That's the same reason I have the fastest internet available here, Optonline Ultra. so I can get on, do things and get off faster. My Old car does the speed limit so I keep it as it has been paid for, for many years now.


----------



## TBoneit

rich584 said:


> My son's got an iPod Touch and he wasn't even interested in the iPad.
> 
> I'll probably end up getting a big plasma, my wife is sure not getting that money back. I'd like to get something for my birthday for a change.
> 
> I'll do that. I've only checked eBay and I've seen some strange things on iPad listings there. The oddest one I saw was an iPad2 going for $76 with just a couple minutes to go. Then I looked at the shipping price. $1000. Truth.
> 
> Rich


Rich, It is my understanding that Ebay sellers pay a percentage of the auction price, however shipping is different. I know a Ebay seller that sells at cost and makes their money on the S&H + a rebate on the UPS bill.


----------



## Herdfan

harsh said:


> Those who don't think Steve Jobs is planning on replacing the Pee Cee with a tablet were obviously off-line during the iPad 2 introduction.


Like I mentioned before, a Dr. I know has velcro on his iPad. He walks in his office and sticks it on his wall. From there he uses a wireless keyboard to enter his notes, puts them in dropbox or similar and is done.


----------



## Herdfan

Steve said:


> Correct. My speculation is we'll see iOS on Mac laptops before long, just like we'll see HP's WebOS as an option on their laptops in 2012.


Lion releasing this summer has a lot of similarities to iOS.


----------



## paul91

Yes the courts determined its legal to jailbreak a device

pros-gives you way more power to make changes to your own device

cons-voids warranty, there a couple extra apps you might not use

I usually jailbreak before I even use an apple IOS device



sigma1914 said:


> Now, I need to find anyone who's jailbreaked their iPad to get the pros/cons. Didn't courts determine it's legal, but Apple voids the warranty?


----------



## dpeters11

I'm not sure apple can tell the difference if you undo the jailbreak, so the warranty issue may not be a big deal, it can cause bugs etc and as an admin, they can get around some of my security policies.


----------



## Karen

My almost 4 year old grandson loves the iPad too. GarageBand is his favorite app! <g>


----------



## Steve

Herdfan said:


> Lion releasing this summer has a lot of similarities to iOS.


Not suprisingly, Apple is at the forefront of yet another technology paradigm shift.


----------



## bobukcat

billsharpe said:


> I guess I'm missing something from that link. I bought some MP3's from eMusic on my desktop PC and had no trouble copying them to my iPod Touch and playing them there.


They weren't real clear about it but I think they mean that if you bought DRM protected content from someone else it won't play on an iPod. Clearly any MP3s without DRM will play on an iPod or any other player for that matter. I'm not familiar with eMusic but I'm assuming it's not protected, just like the MP3s from Amazon.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Steve said:


> Not suprisingly, Apple is at the forefront of yet another technology paradigm shift.


 IMHO, while tablets are very cool they are hardly a paradigm shift. For instance, the iPad is nothing more than an iPhone without the phone and little more than an iPod Touch.

Tablets are nothing new. As a theory they date back to the late '60s and real attempts were made in the '80s.

I see the current tablet craze is just the next logical step from the smart phone. After twenty plus years trying to introduce a tablet PC the climate is finally right for public acceptance. Now a tablet is familiar; people already know how to use them because they can use a smart phone. Now is the logical time to take yet another stab at tablet PC's.

Further, I think they're a stepping stone to what will be a paradigm shift. I believe that shift will happen when the tablet can do everything it does now and function as a laptop.

IMHO, when you can bounce between a spreadsheet, word processor, and a browser on a tablet as easily as a PC, then you have a paradigm shift. For now tablets are merely tools to supplement phones and PCs. When you only need to have one device, then you've got something.

My 3.34¢ FWIW.

Mike


----------



## Steve

Mike Bertelson said:


> IMHO, while tablets are very cool they are hardly a paradigm shift.


Ya. I didn't make it clear, but the paradigm shift I meant was the move to a unified tablet/PC OS, via Lion. Same direction HP has announced with WebOS and Microsoft with Win 8, but Apple's doing it first.


----------



## klang

Mike Bertelson said:


> IMHO, when you can bounce between a spreadsheet, word processor, and a browser on a tablet as easily as a PC, then you have a paradigm shift. For now tablets are merely tools to supplement phones and PCs. When you only need to have one device, then you've got something.
> Mike


You can run all those things at once on an iPad now. Changing between apps is a double tap of the home button and selecting the app you want to change to. It isn't turned on yet but the ability to swipe between running apps is already there.


----------



## Karen

Mike Bertelson said:


> IMHO, while tablets are very cool they are hardly a paradigm shift. For instance, the iPad is nothing more than an iPhone without the phone and little more than an iPod Touch.


My almost 4 year old grandson called me over and told me that the iPad was just a very big iphone...


----------



## prozone1

I love my iPad use it every day bought it the day they went on sale and never dreamed it would change my reading and web viewing habits for a more pleasurable experience.
Can't wait until 4-10 when alltell in our area turns into AT&T and I can finally have an iphone 4


----------



## BudShark

My laptop will last longer now that it rest more often. iPad happily carries the workload.

I don't find my iPad lacking. Actually what I am getting sick of is mice. The web - although it took a while to get there - is a touch experience. Mice, IMO, are destined to die. In some way touch is the future. Whether a screen mirrored on an iPad/trackpad hybrid, or just an advanced tablet- non touch interfaces are dead in my house... And I'm guessin many others. Mice to my son will be like 5 1/4 drives to teenagers....


----------



## Mike Bertelson

klang said:


> You can run all those things at once on an iPad now. Changing between apps is a double tap of the home button and selecting the app you want to change to. It isn't turned on yet but the ability to swipe between running apps is already there.


I meant more than swapping between applications. Type in data, select, copy, paste, etc. Multiple functions that require the use of keyboard.

I can export portions of a web page to Excel, format and sort the data, add some text, and copy and paste some of that into a Word doc all in a minute or so.

I'm talking about multi-taking in a way that requires both a keyboard and a mouse. The touch screen serves as a mouse but is a poor keyboard. It takes up too much of the screen and you can't see multiple application windows at the same time.

Once this kind of functionality exists in a tablet as a single standalone device, then you'll something that can replace a PC.

Mike


----------



## Chris Blount

Mike Bertelson said:


> I meant more than swapping between applications. Type in data, select, copy, paste, etc. Multiple functions that require the use of keyboard.
> 
> I can export portions of a web page to Excel, format and sort the data, add some text, and copy and paste some of that into a Word doc all in a minute or so.
> 
> I'm talking about multi-taking in a way that requires both a keyboard and a mouse. The touch screen serves as a mouse but is a poor keyboard. It takes up too much of the screen and you can't see multiple application windows at the same time.
> 
> Once this kind of functionality exists in a tablet as a single standalone device, then you'll something that can replace a PC.
> 
> Mike


But that's the trick. Maybe future devices won't need a keyboard and mouse in the traditional sense. Right now we are all thinking old school like we will always need the keyboard and mouse in order to carry out certain tasks. Tablets of the future could have completely different interfaces that could actually perform better.

If Ford asked people what they wanted, right now we would be driving around horse and buggies with faster horses.


----------



## spartanstew

Ford didn't invent the automobile.


----------



## Marlin Guy

spartanstew said:


> Ford didn't invent the automobile.


Who said he did?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Chris Blount said:


> But that's the trick. Maybe future devices won't need a keyboard and mouse in the traditional sense. Right now we are all thinking old school like we will always need the keyboard and mouse in order to carry out certain tasks. Tablets of the future could have completely different interfaces that could actually perform better.
> 
> If Ford asked people what they wanted, right now we would be driving around horse and buggies with faster horses.


I wasn't saying it needed to have a mouse and a keyboard. It needs a method to complete the kind of tasks I listed in a single device.

I was trying to relate how it's done now. But, I hope that the future of tablets can accomplish this functionality without out a separate keyboard. You're right, that is the trick. :grin:

Mike


----------



## klang

Mike Bertelson said:


> I meant more than swapping between applications. Type in data, select, copy, paste, etc. Multiple functions that require the use of keyboard.
> 
> I can export portions of a web page to Excel, format and sort the data, add some text, and copy and paste some of that into a Word doc all in a minute or so.
> 
> I'm talking about multi-taking in a way that requires both a keyboard and a mouse. The touch screen serves as a mouse but is a poor keyboard. It takes up too much of the screen and you can't see multiple application windows at the same time.
> 
> Once this kind of functionality exists in a tablet as a single standalone device, then you'll something that can replace a PC.
> 
> Mike


Copy and paste actually is there already.

I think iPad is more of a media consumption device anyway. For many of us that is what we use a portable or laptop for.


----------



## Rich

TBoneit said:


> Rich, It is my understanding that Ebay sellers pay a percentage of the auction price, however shipping is different. I know a Ebay seller that sells at cost and makes their money on the S&H + a rebate on the UPS bill.


I did that for a bit, too. But it seemed like I was taking advantage of buyers. That guy that was asking for $1000 in shipping for an item that could be bought new for way less was just taking the 12 fools that bid on it for a ride.

Rich


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> I'm not short on money, just stuff to spend it on. Annoying how little there is for men to buy and so much for women to buy.


You and I lead VERY different lives... :lol: 



Sixto said:


> I've found that the more that I've had the iPad, the more useful it has become. Couldn't imagine now not having it. [...]
> 
> [...]Could go on and on, but finding new uses all the time ...


Total agreement Sixto...

I've had mine for less than a month, but it's already changed my habits so much that I don't want to imagine not having one... and the more I use it, the more I like it.

I've also let multiple people try mine out, and some of them are already making plans to get one... the rest would, but well, money...



Mike Bertelson said:


> IMHO, while tablets are very cool they are hardly a paradigm shift. For instance, the iPad is nothing more than an iPhone without the phone and little more than an iPod Touch.


I STRONGLY disagree with that... not from a software perspective (obviously), but from a usage perspective.



Mike Bertelson said:


> Tablets are nothing new. As a theory they date back to the late '60s and real attempts were made in the '80s.
> 
> I see the current tablet craze is just the next logical step from the smart phone. After twenty plus years trying to introduce a tablet PC the climate is finally right for public acceptance. Now a tablet is familiar; people already know how to use them because they can use a smart phone. Now is the logical time to take yet another stab at tablet PC's.


Agreed...



Mike Bertelson said:


> Further, I think they're a stepping stone to what will be a paradigm shift. I believe that shift will happen when the tablet can do everything it does now and function as a laptop.
> 
> IMHO, when you can bounce between a spreadsheet, word processor, and a browser on a tablet as easily as a PC, then you have a paradigm shift. For now tablets are merely tools to supplement phones and PCs. When you only need to have one device, then you've got something.


As someone who works in graphic design for their job, and will bring stuff home to work from time to time, I can't say the iPad (or any tablet) will TRULY replace the desktop for me, but the iPad does perform 97.3% of what I want a computer to do for me (on a personal level).

I do think the iPad is a paradigm shift... I just think the world needs time to catch up with it...

~Alan


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I totally agree with you, Mr. Gordon. It's no replacement for the Adobe Creative Suite... how could it be with a relatively underpowered processor and little RAM? But as a creative type like you, I can see options for it. 

My iPad, if it ever arrives, will not be a replacement for my laptop or my netbook. Both of those computers still have a place in my home. That's the genius of it, and what I didn't really get at first; this is not a replacement for anything. It's a new device that does a lot of what other devices does in a more fun and cool way.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Stuart Sweet said:


> I totally agree with you, Mr. Gordon. It's no replacement for the Adobe Creative Suite... how could it be with a relatively underpowered processor and little RAM? But as a creative type like you, I can see options for it.
> 
> My iPad, if it ever arrives, will not be a replacement for my laptop or my netbook. Both of those computers still have a place in my home. That's the genius of it, and what I didn't really get at first; this is not a replacement for anything. It's a new device that does a lot of what other devices does in a more fun and cool way.


Steve Jobs does consider it something in between a smartphone and a laptop....not a replacement, yet. :grin:

I kinda think it will be though. I don't know how long that will be but I sort of hope there will be something like the the pads from Star Trek....really...I want one. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> Steve Jobs does consider it something in between a smartphone and a laptop....not a replacement, yet. :grin:
> 
> I kinda think it will be though.


I've seen enough places call them tablet PC's....kinda points to where things may be headed...


----------



## phrelin

Stuart Sweet said:


> That's the genius of it, and what I didn't really get at first; this is not a replacement for anything. It's a new device that does a lot of what other devices does in a more fun and cool way.


Mine's beginning to replace my brain, and just in time!

It's handy having my "new brain" right next to me. I can grab it, use Google, IMDb, and some other Apps as well as generally using Safari - I find I can "remember" things I couldn't remember using my old brain.

Also, I don't have to fumble around on a little itty-bitty keyboard which would make it more like my old brain.:sure:


----------



## Nick

Mike Bertelson said:


> Steve Jobs does consider it something in between a smartphone and a laptop....not a replacement, yet... :grin:
> 
> Mike


Yeah, let's call it a 'smartop', or add cellphone functionality and call it a 'phonepad', or add a beer cooler and a handle and little wheels and it's an xPad phonepadcoolerskateboard. There's an app for that.

Now hold it to your ear with both hands and try to talk at it!

What's next? :whatdidid


----------



## tcusta00

Nick said:


> What's next? :whatdidid


Steve will tell us when we're ready to hear about it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Stuart Sweet said:


> I totally agree with you, Mr. Gordon. It's no replacement for the Adobe Creative Suite... how could it be with a relatively underpowered processor and little RAM? But as a creative type like you, I can see options for it.


In my area of work, I generally use QuarkXPress more than Adobe... 

That being said, I can see a few years down the line when tablets are powerful enough for Adobe, Quark, etc., BUT for me, the reason I don't see a tablet taking place of my desktop, etc. is due to the fact that when one works with graphic design (etc.), you really want a larger screen than what is practical for a tablet (yes, I know you can hook up the iPad via HDMI)...



Stuart Sweet said:


> My iPad, if it ever arrives, will not be a replacement for my laptop or my netbook. Both of those computers still have a place in my home. That's the genius of it, and what I didn't really get at first; this is not a replacement for anything. It's a new device that does a lot of what other devices does in a more fun and cool way.


In time, I think it will replace the laptop or netbook, and I think it will replace the desktop for MOST people... particularly those who use their computers for personal reasons (e-mail, web surfing, etc.), but I think it will be a while (for the laptop, and the desktop in particular).

That being said... outside of work related stuff, I can assure you that neither my laptop or netbook will be getting much use... 

~Alan


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Nick said:


> add a beer cooler and a handle and little wheels and it's an xPad phonepadcoolerskateboard.


Hmmm....I might get one of those. :lol:

Mike


----------



## Groundhog45

After reading about the DirecTV iPad app, I can see the value of having one around the house. I'm sure it would end up being used for some of the things currently done on the desktop. I'm just not ready to spend what it costs to get in the game.  One of these days, maybe.


----------



## Shades228

Rich you should pick up a Xoom and see how you like it. It could be quite possible that the whole interface difference is what stopped you from really getting into it.


----------



## Steve

Shades228 said:


> Rich you should pick up a Xoom and see how you like it. It could be quite possible that the whole interface difference is what stopped you from really getting into it.


Xoom is nice. Higher resolution display (e-book and web page type looks much crisper and sharper than on the iPad). Its microSD card slot will soon be active, so you can easily and inexpensively add another 32gb of memory if you like. It also acts like a standard USB mass storage device when plugged into your PC, so no need for iTunes to transfer files on and off.

And if the cameras are important, the Xoom front and rear cameras are much higher res than the .3/.7 MP cameras on the iPad2. The front camera quality on the iPad2 reminds me of the first webcams I used on the PC in the late 90's.

I went iPad because this one was primarily for my non-technical wife, and I wanted her to have the best "out of the box" app experience. If I decide to get a second tablet, tho, I'm going to seriously look at the Xoom or the 3-4 other 10" Honeycomb tablets announced by the likes of Samsung, Toshiba, LG, et al., along with the iPad3, which some rumors say may be available at the end of the year.


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Rich you should pick up a Xoom and see how you like it. It could be quite possible that the whole interface difference is what stopped you from really getting into it.


Thanx, I have considered that. BB is selling them and I have to see what their return policy is like. If it's the usual 30 days or even 14 days, I think I will pick one up and give it a try.

I have been reading the thread without commenting and I've given the posts a lot of thought. It might well have been the UI that turned me off, being used to my Droid. All the posters have swayed me and I think I'll either get an iPad on Craigslist or give the Xoom a shot. Think I'll try the Xoom first. I read a review on it and it wasn't good, but I don't trust every review I read. If it is the same as my Droid, I'll be happy. The Droid does do everything I want and is easy to carry around but I would like a larger screen. And I do want a birthday present this year......:lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Thanx, I have considered that. BB is selling them and I have to see what their return policy is like. If it's the usual 30 days or even 14 days, I think I will pick one up and give it a try.
> 
> I have been reading the thread without commenting and I've given the posts a lot of thought. It might well have been the UI that turned me off, being used to my Droid. All the posters have swayed me and I think I'll either get an iPad on Craigslist or give the Xoom a shot. Think I'll try the Xoom first. I read a review on it and it wasn't good, but I don't trust every review I read. If it is the same as my Droid, I'll be happy. The Droid does do everything I want and is easy to carry around but I would like a larger screen. And I do want a birthday present this year......:lol:
> 
> Rich


Having seen Xoom at CES this year....I'd guess its worth a look. It was very impressive during the few minutes of demo time we had there.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Xoom is nice. Higher resolution display (e-book and web page type looks much crisper and sharper than on the iPad). Its microSD card slot will soon be active, so you can easily and inexpensively add another 32gb of memory if you like. It also acts like a standard USB mass storage device when plugged into your PC, so no need for iTunes to transfer files on and off.
> 
> And if the cameras are important, the Xoom front and rear cameras are much higher res than the .3/.7 MP cameras on the iPad2. The front camera quality on the iPad2 reminds me of the first webcams I used on the PC in the late 90's.
> 
> I went iPad because this one was primarily for my non-technical wife, and I wanted her to have the best "out of the box" app experience. If I decide to get a second tablet, tho, I'm going to seriously look at the Xoom or the 3-4 other 10" Honeycomb tablets announced by the likes of Samsung, Toshiba, LG, et al., along with the iPad3, which some rumors say may be available at the end of the year.


I'm kinda up against a time constraint here. Last year my wife gave me $3,000 for my birthday to buy a new TV and I spent that on my dog's eye operation. Well worth doing, but not really what I'd consider a birthday present. If I don't buy something in the next couple weeks, that money will just disappear and I'll have to wait for next year.

I think I'll try the Xoom. Especially after your comments.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having seen Xoom at CES this year....I'd guess its worth a look. It was very impressive during the few minutes of demo time we had there.


Well, if the *FAN* approves...

Thanx,

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Well, if the *FAN* approves...
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> Rich


No harm no foul in a trial.

I also would require further inspection prior to buying...but from what I did see...it blew away the iPad. A full trial would vet that view or displace it. To me...Apple's insistence on not supporting an SD expansion card is a bad limitation.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No harm no foul in a trial.
> 
> I also would require further inspection prior to buying...but from what I did see...it blew away the iPad. A full trial would vet that view or displace it. To me...Apple's insistence on not supporting an SD expansion card is a bad limitation.


Perhaps I shall take a ride to BB tomorrow.

While I think about it: The Apple Store seems to have a more liberal return policy than getting it online.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Perhaps I shall take a ride to BB tomorrow.
> 
> While I think about it: The Apple Store seems to have a more liberal return policy than getting it online.


I've now spent about 2 hours playing with Xoom at Best Buy. According to my newspaper inserts, Staples now carries the wifi-only Xoom, and may have a better return policy. I honestly don't know.

So Xoom has a crisper screen, better cameras and USB mass storage capability. Memory expandability is not a big deal for me. As a test, I loaded my wife's iPad with enough music, video and books for a typical vacation, and even with the 30 aps we've got on there, there was still about 16gb free of the original 32gb.

On the "pro" side of the iPad ledger, I find it to be lighter and easier to hold than the Xoom. I also prefer the iPad's 4:3 aspect ratio for browsing web pages. Also, the iPad sports a few more square inches of viewing area at 9.8" 4:3 than the 10.1" 16:9 Xoom display.

I thought the tabbed Chrome browser on the Xoom would blow away the Safari browser on the iPad, but I find they perform equally well. Xoom will support Flash as soon as Adobe is ready to deliver the Honeycomb version, but I don't miss it as much as I thought I would on the iPad. I guess most sites have already begun transitioning to HTML 5 instead.

And the iPad "smart cover" is awesome. It provides instant on/off, protection for the screen and keeps the screen at perfect angles for typing or viewing movies. And the magnetic hinges are sheer genius. They snap right into the correct place, every time.


----------



## Shades228

rich584 said:


> Perhaps I shall take a ride to BB tomorrow.
> 
> While I think about it: The Apple Store seems to have a more liberal return policy than getting it online.
> 
> Rich


It's 14 days if the classify it as a lap top otherwise it's 30 days. I bought a 64 GB Ipod tuoch and hate the interface. I've used it maybe 5 times, but I just can't get into it after using android OS.


----------



## Laxguy

rich584 said:


> Well, if the *FAN* approves...
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> Rich


Well, sure, but the Fan, a good fella and all that, is irretrievably pro PC and mildly anti-Mac. Or maybe the other way around! 

Competition is good!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> Well, sure, but the Fan, a good fella and all that, is irretrievably pro PC and mildly anti-Mac. Or maybe the other way around!
> 
> Competition is good!


You're right that I vomit on Apple Kool Aid, but I do acknowledge the iPad2 is a formidable market competitor product. Obviously...since they've sold plenty of the old version already.

The two main issues I have with iPad are Apple's insistence to control one's use of their devices so tightly via connectivity (no native USB port) and also storage expansion (no SD).

I understand exactly why Apple chose this strategy (continuing their control-freak philosophy), but to me, its a major device shortcoming.

Having used 4 iPads now for a bit (my future son-in-law has one), I understand the following for the devices...but just don't share the blind "Apple can do no wrong" mindset of many users. There are many nice things about iPad2...no doubt about it....but to me...its an unfinished potential.

In contrast, I look at Xoom, and see a device that offers better universal connectivity, expandable storage, better performance, and nice screen imagery. Of course, this comes at a higher price.

At the cost of all models/makes...few can afford to keep them a year or two and then migrate to a new one. They need to get them right the first time and gain a longer user lifespan. That's why there's likely a lot of pent-up "wait and see" buyers out there.

In the end, the tablet device offerings as a whole seem to be immature in several ways. For that reason, I anticipate a year from now, we'll see the iPad3 and Xoom 2, and maybe several other new devices that will get them to the point of where they potentially could be - none the least of which might be a legitimate laptop replacement for many more people.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

Apple stinks.


----------



## jsmuga

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Apple stinks.


Obviously they are doing something right. Look at their financials the last couple of years in this economy.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jsmuga said:


> Obviously they are doing something right. Look at their financials the last couple of years in this economy.


Even I acknowledge that....and Steve Jobs won't come anywhere near me. :lol:


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Apple stinks.


Care to justify that?


----------



## Chris Blount

Apple haters really crack me up. It's always about hating the "Kool Aid" and the closed universe of Apple products.

The more reasonable way to think about it is that Apple strives for a solid and easy to use product in a nice package. That's all. If that's not for you, that's fine but hating the product only closes out any possibility of considering an Apple product in the future. That gives you less choice which can't be a good thing right?

I don't hate any company. I consider all possibilities. Right now I own Apple computer products. I switched to Apple because Vista was a complete wreck. Now that I have used Windows 7 for a while, I'm impressed and use both.

As far as the Xoom, it's a nice product and may pick one up someday but for now, the iPad fits my needs for tablet computing. 

I guess my point is that its a bit unfair to tell others that they drink Kool-Aid. We all have things we like so its really the pot calling the kettle black.


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> It's 14 days if the classify it as a lap top otherwise it's 30 days. I bought a 64 GB Ipod tuoch and hate the interface. I've used it maybe 5 times, but I just can't get into it after using android OS.


Ah, that's good to know. I'll be heading to BB today, or maybe Staples. Now I'm feeling that lust again.

Rich


----------



## Sixto

Chris Blount said:


> ... The more reasonable way to think about it is that Apple strives for a solid and easy to use product in a nice package. That's all. If that's not for you, that's fine but hating the product only closes out any possibility of considering an Apple product in the future. That gives you less choice which can't be a good thing right? ...


Exactly.

I'm about halfway through a new book on Steve Jobs. The world needs more like him.

Focus on the product, not just the financials.

First book that I'm reading with the Kindle iPad App. Very nice.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Apple haters really crack me up. It's always about hating the "Kool Aid" and the closed universe of Apple products.


Not always Chris.

I don't hate Apple in any way, yet I see them as another "our way or the highway" mindset company. Many other folks do as well. The iPhone4 problems only amplified things.

Let's face it, when Steve Jobs speaks....hundreds of thousands of Apple customers pause and salute. It happens. He has earned a loyal following...but I've seen it go over the top plenty of times. The Internet is laden with thousands of parodies on it, so the Kool-aid label has some merit.

Apple does things "their way" to maximize revenue, which makes business sense. The iTunes store concept is a goldmine. They know it, and therefore retain their controls. They are successful.

On the other hand, people often resent being limited in technology, especially when they see how others apply similar concepts in a more "open" manner.

I suspect that's the root of most of the negativity toward Apple, along with the Kool aid mindset.

I personally like many things about the iPad 2. I don't care for the limitations.


----------



## Rich

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Care to justify that?


Many years ago the plant I worked at signed a lease contract with Apple. We had to take all our PCs and swap them for Macs. The people moaned and groaned, especially the accountants, and complained that they were getting "toys" and had to give up "real computers".

Flash forward several years to a new management (or mismanagement) group and they sign a lease with IBM. So we have to take all the Macs and swap them for IBM PCs. Those same people who moaned and groaned about having to accept "toys" couldn't bear to give up their Macs. I quit before they got to me and took my Mac. When people use Macs, they rarely want to go back to PCs. Well, that was true at that time, I have no idea how the Macs evolved. The lease costs justified the change. But the agony folks went thru when the cart rolled in with the IBM PCs was genuine, they wanted to keep the Macs. A lot of them suddenly grew legs and disappeared.

Rich


----------



## Stewart Vernon

My initial experiences with Apple were years ago... for desktop publishing... and you couldn't beat them for that. They had the top tier apps at the time.

Eventually the PC world caught up to them with the apps, and once Windows was entrenched the experience was similar... and I found myself back to PC world for a long time because that's where the action was.

Now I'm back on a Mac again.

The only place where Apple never really has seemed to take off is in gaming. IF there was the wealth of games for Macs that there are for PCs... then Macs would have a bigger footprint. Curiously, though, with XBox and PS3 being very popular, I think it has become less important for computer games... and yet Apple has more available now than ever before.


----------



## Sixto

As I've been reading this new book (via the iPad ), it's certainly clear that Steve Jobs has a vision, and maniacally focused on the best product(s). 

(The Steve Jobs Way: iLeadership for a New Generation)

Certainly don't see much about unusually focusing on profits, though that certainly is an end result.

Many, many examples, of him losing money to be the "best".

Other companies sure have the opportunity to compete against him. It's open season.

I wish more CEO's were like him, wish my CEO was like him. Honesty how I feel.

In some ways, I just think others are jealous, with no disrespect to anyone.

And this is coming from a Blackberry guy (me) for now, but love the iPad.

Will someday have an iPhone. Soon.


----------



## Shades228

Chris Blount said:


> Apple haters really crack me up. It's always about hating the "Kool Aid" and the closed universe of Apple products.
> 
> The more reasonable way to think about it is that Apple strives for a solid and easy to use product in a nice package. That's all. If that's not for you, that's fine but hating the product only closes out any possibility of considering an Apple product in the future. That gives you less choice which can't be a good thing right?
> 
> I don't hate any company. I consider all possibilities. Right now I own Apple computer products. I switched to Apple because Vista was a complete wreck. Now that I have used Windows 7 for a while, I'm impressed and use both.
> 
> As far as the Xoom, it's a nice product and may pick one up someday but for now, the iPad fits my needs for tablet computing.
> 
> I guess my point is that its a bit unfair to tell others that they drink Kool-Aid. We all have things we like so its really the pot calling the kettle black.


I sold Apple/Macintosh while I was in high school. In school and graphic arts in the 90's you dealt with Mac. I used to drink the kool aid. They were great machines. Then after learning how to repair those people would ask for help on their PC's. So I eventually learned both.

When you buy an Apple product you give up control. You do buy a very well engineered device that will do everything they want it to do. However you don't have the option of changing it around. You can't play/tweak or do anything to them because it violates their policies. I get it they don't want you to not like their product because you did something that makes it work less then how they designed it.

People who don't like Apple are people who don't like to give up control. They don't want a company to tell them what the best is for them. They are very innovative and create a great product. Then they say it's our way or the high way. It's the arrogance of because we said this is best for you attitude that turns me off. If I want a phone I have specific needs. I can either find one that fits my needs or I can take the Iphone and then make me work for it. If I don't like the camera oh well. If I don't like the screen or the UI oh well.

Apple has also honed it's image as the yuppie. They want this image and with it will come resentment anyways. Even yuppies didn't want to be a yuppie.

Now with all of that said if someone I know just wants to buy something and have it work. I usually refer them to an Apple product because by design that's what they do. The only exclusion are phones. There is a place for both but to say that Apple doesn't deserve the kool aid label is false in my oppinion. They enforce it because they want people to be proud of it.


----------



## tcusta00

Chris Blount said:


> Apple haters really crack me up. It's always about hating the "Kool Aid" and the closed universe of Apple products.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not always Chris.


but most of the time...



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Stop posting all those facts - the Apple Kool-Aid folks will be after you in no time... :lol::lol::lol:





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sorry...I don't drink the Apple Kool Aid. :nono2:





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Somebody's favorite flavor of Kool Aid is apple.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for Kool-Aid - no one drinks more than Apple people.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're right that I vomit on Apple Kool Aid


----------



## Nick

It's not Koolaid, it's Apple juice. ;]


----------



## Herdfan

rich584 said:


> When people use Macs, they rarely want to go back to PCs.


I got my first PC in 1985 and other than an iPhone and iPad, have probably not spent an hour using a Mac.

Till about a month ago. My wife was having issues with her Dell (about 4 years old, but with a clean install of XP 1+ years ago) and so I went to see what was up. This thing was slow. I knew we would be getting a new computer. Ended up with a Mac Mini (if Apple would only make iMac's with non-glare screens ) and the more I used it, the better I liked it.

So much in fact that we are headed to Columbus this weekend for a shopping trip and I am sure I will end up in the Apple store and coming home with something. I am leaning towards a MBP and connecting it to my current 24" monitor. They just seem to do things easier.

Yes, I will load Windows on it via Boot Camp, but 90% of it will be used on the Mac side. They truly are impressive machines.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> but most of the time...


Guess you missed all of the commentary praising Apple and pointing out they also do a number thing right.

Guess that makes it an: April Fool.


----------



## mutelight

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're right that I vomit on Apple Kool Aid, but I do acknowledge the iPad2 is a formidable market competitor product. Obviously...since they've sold plenty of the old version already.
> 
> The two main issues I have with iPad are Apple's insistence to control one's use of their devices so tightly via connectivity (no native USB port) and also storage expansion (no SD).
> 
> I understand exactly why Apple chose this strategy (continuing their control-freak philosophy), but to me, its a major device shortcoming.
> 
> Having used 4 iPads now for a bit (my future son-in-law has one), I understand the following for the devices...but just don't share the blind "Apple can do no wrong" mindset of many users. There are many nice things about iPad2...no doubt about it....but to me...its an unfinished potential.
> 
> In contrast, I look at Xoom, and see a device that offers better universal connectivity, expandable storage, better performance, and nice screen imagery. Of course, this comes at a higher price.
> 
> At the cost of all models/makes...few can afford to keep them a year or two and then migrate to a new one. They need to get them right the first time and gain a longer user lifespan. That's why there's likely a lot of pent-up "wait and see" buyers out there.
> 
> In the end, the tablet device offerings as a whole seem to be immature in several ways. For that reason, I anticipate a year from now, we'll see the iPad3 and Xoom 2, and maybe several other new devices that will get them to the point of where they potentially could be - none the least of which might be a legitimate laptop replacement for many more people.


The Xoom definitely has a lot of potential but it has a long way to mature. Software choices are slim and at times I think I didn't press the screen properly because it can become quite sluggish, even when reorienting the device, which I found myself having to do quite a lot with the aspect ratio. Also with it's TN panel, I noticed quite a bit of color shifting when held off angle.

With it's high price point in comparison to the competition, it will make it difficult to gain traction in the market. Less saturation in the market and it being the only tablet with Honeycomb, make it hard for devs to justify writing software for it.

As far as performance, while the Xoom has twice the RAM, loading apps, most webpages, and switching between apps, as well as game performance is far stronger on the iPad 2 due to the OS optimization and far stronger GPU.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Guess you missed all of the commentary praising Apple and pointing out they also do a number thing right.


Yeah I guess I did. Praising someone/something immediately followed by a snide remark about koolaid drinking usually nullifies or at least lessens the impact of the "praise."

I liken to making a comment like this about a poster here:

"Hey I think you're a valuable member of this community sometimes but most of your posts are asinine and absurd and make me want to throw up."


----------



## Chris Blount

tcusta00 said:


> Yeah I guess I did. Praising someone/something immediately followed by a snide remark about koolaid drinking usually nullifies or at least lessens the impact of the "praise."
> 
> I liken to making a comment like this about a poster here:
> 
> "Hey I think you're a valuable member of this community sometimes but most of your posts are asinine and absurd and make me want to throw up."


This is why I have always believed that everything that comes before the word "but" is usually BS.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Yeah I guess I did. Praising someone/something immediately followed by a snide remark about koolaid drinking usually nullifies or at least lessens the impact of the "praise."


OK.

The whole Kool-aid thing has repeatedly been proven to be valid, in that *some* Apple customers sometimes are so loyal that if Steve Jobs told them to jump off a cliff...a line might form. There are literally hundreds of parodies on YouTube about this phenomenon. It doesn't fit everyone, but it fits to some degree.

Getting past all that, I posted what I thought to be a pretty balanced set of firsthand observations in #133 on the topic.

There are always multiple sides and opinions, and most of mine are based on hands on experiences. They're also just that, my view on the subject, and certainly not any better or less than anyone else's.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> OK.
> 
> The whole Kool-aid thing has repeatedly been proven to be valid, in that some Apple customers sometimes are so loyal that if Steve Jobs told them to jump off a cliff...a line might form. There are literally hundreds of parodies on YouTube about this phenomenon. It doesn't fit everyone, but it fits to some degree.
> 
> Getting past all that, I posted what I thought to be a pretty balanced set of firsthand observations in #133 on the topic.
> 
> There are always multiple sides and opinions, and most of mine are based on hands on experiences. They're also just that, my view on the subject, and certainly not any better or less than anyone else's.


Back to Chris's post above that you took issue with: It's always back to the koolaid with you (and others). And you've nicely proven that point in your posts through the years. Over and over again. You don't like apple for that and other reasons and that's fine. Therefore, validating Chris's point.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Back to Chris's post above that you took issue with: It's always back to the koolaid with you (and others). And you've nicely proven that point in your posts through the years. Over and over again. You don't like apple for that and other reasons and that's fine. *Therefore, validating Chris's point*.


I guess we'll just have to disagree.

There is not a single "but" in my statement, and I clearly balance it with it being one opinion of equal value to all others. Most posts at DBSTalk don't come close to that...why you are harping on that is beyond me.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I guess we'll just have to disagree.
> 
> There is not a single "but" in my statement, and I clearly balance it with it being one opinion of equal value to all others. Most posts at DBSTalk don't come close to that...why you are harping on that is beyond me.


Why am i harping on your love affair with bagging on Apple? Do a search for posts by you with the word "apple" in it. I've never seen someone so adamant about talking about a technology that's not right for them. Oh wait, one person comes to mind.  and he seems to give the same "I'm balanced" excuses you just gave. Again, every post about apple by you insists on pointing out the bad qualities of that product. Seems harsh for someone who's never owned one. And yes I know your daughter has one and you've used it. And you briefly used an iPad at CES in Vegas but decided it's not for you.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Seems you have alot of time on your hands to practically be stalking my posts.
> 
> We're all way past it....maybe you should do the same.


You have 100 posts about Apple. You're not past it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

What control are people giving up when they buy an Apple computer?

When I buy a microwave oven, I know that it does what it does... and I can't take it apart without voiding the warranty.

I get that computers have been traditionally upgrade-able for a long time now, but that wasn't always the case.

The Commodore 64 is (last I checked) still the most-sold computer ever... and it was essentially the same model for 15+ years... and it wasn't upgradeable, you couldn't take it apart without voiding the warranty, etc.

Apple actually had expansion slots inside their computers before other companies did... (go back and look at the Apple II or thereabouts)...

IBM originally didn't even want to put graphics capability in their first PC because they didn't think anyone needed anything but text!

Oh, and while PCs are easier to take apart and change the configuration... Ask IBM or Dell how much support they give you if you take apart your computer and put something in it that they didn't originally include. Odds are, you are on your own with extra devices and configuration changes.

An iMac (and PC all-in-ones) are basically like laptops in terms of their intended uses being relatively "fixed" and not designed for major upgrades.

People who complain about the inability to upgrade their Mac seldom complain about that same inability to upgrade their laptop PC.


----------



## Steve

Stewart Vernon said:


> People who complain about the inability to upgrade their Mac seldom complain about that same inability to upgrade their laptop PC.


To be fair, you can usually upgrade a laptop's memory and hard drive. I've done it with the last 3-4 I've owned.

That said, people who don't use a tablet yet are probably not aware that it's a different experience, so things that may be important in the PC paradigm (like expandable memory and storage) are not as important to tablet users. It's a different beast.

I can say this with confidence, because up until I became a tablet user a couple of weeks ago, I too was in that "PC" mindset. I realize now that I probably could have saved some $$$ and gone with a 16 GB iPad2 instead of a 32GB, because I only need transient storage, not long-term storage. And ya, I think iTunes for PC is a clunky app, but it gets the job done, same as if the iPad could act like a USB mass storage device, so no harm, no foul in the greater scheme of things.


----------



## Laxguy

Chris Blount said:


> This is why I have always believed that everything that comes before the word "but" is usually BS.


Yeah, and I 'specially like the one that starts, "Don't take this personally, but...." :nono2:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I want an iPad


----------



## spartanstew

tcusta00 said:


> I liken to making a comment like this about a poster here:
> 
> "Hey I think you're a valuable member of this community sometimes but most of your posts are asinine and absurd and make me want to throw up."


Hey.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Yeah, and I 'specially like the one that starts, "Don't take this personally, but...." :nono2:


I got a whole list of them starting with "I know it's none of my business, but..."

Or "not to be nasty, but..."

People realize that they are gonna antagonize someone and yet they make some half witted attempt to soften the impact by half heartedly apologizing first.

"Not to be rude, but..." Then, dammit, don't be rude.

I could go on and on, but...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

rich584 said:


> I got a whole list of them starting with "I know it's none of my business, but..."
> 
> Or "not to be nasty, but..."
> 
> People realize that they are gonna antagonize someone and yet they make some half witted attempt to soften the impact by half heartedly apologizing first.
> 
> "Not to be rude, but..." Then, dammit, don't be rude.
> 
> I could go on and on, but...:lol:
> 
> Rich


I hate to gossip, but do you know what RR said in Las Vegas?? "////.........\\\\\"


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> I hate to gossip, but do you know what RR said in Las Vegas?? "////.........\\\\\"


We could do this all day. That's sad when you think about it. If you're gonna antagonize or hurt someone's feelings deliberately, just do it. Man up!

Rich


----------



## dennisj00

Steve said:


> same as if the iPad could act like a USB mass storage device, so no harm, no foul in the greater scheme of things.


Steve,

There's a free app for the iPhone / iPad, "Wifi HD", that lets you use the free space as a mass storage device, just via Wifi instead of a USB port.

I use to carry a usb drive in my pocket but don't anymore because I always have my phone that has more free space than an 8gb usb stick.


----------



## Steve

dennisj00 said:


> There's a free app for the iPhone / iPad, "Wifi HD", that lets you use the free space as a mass storage device, just via Wifi instead of a USB port.
> 
> I use to carry a usb drive in my pocket but don't anymore because I always have my phone that has more free space than an 8gb usb stick.


Thanks, Dennis. Useful tip!


----------



## dennisj00

But I also use GoodReader for file transfer, since it has a file manager / folder configuration -- even if the file doesn't work in GoodReader! (in addition to it's FTP / download capabilites from dropbox, Fileanywhere, GoogleDocs, etc.)

It also costs a few bucks!


----------



## Shades228

Stewart Vernon said:


> What control are people giving up when they buy an Apple computer?
> 
> When I buy a microwave oven, I know that it does what it does... and I can't take it apart without voiding the warranty.


I guess if you think that a microwave is as versitle as Apple I can't argue with you. Both design their products for one thing and if you don't want to use it how they want you to then it's not going to be any good.

Now perhaps you migth try a realistic comparison.



> I get that computers have been traditionally upgrade-able for a long time now, but that wasn't always the case.


The IBM XT built in 1983, the second IBM PC made, had an ISA slot, and internal HD. They could be upgraded based on the technology available at the time.



> The Commodore 64 is (last I checked) still the most-sold computer ever... and it was essentially the same model for 15+ years... and it wasn't upgradeable, you couldn't take it apart without voiding the warranty, etc.


Clearly Commodore is a great innovative company today leading the way with... oh wait. While I loved my C64, and my Amiga's, the closed architecture is what drove the market from them compared to DOS and Apple.



> Apple actually had expansion slots inside their computers before other companies did... (go back and look at the Apple II or thereabouts)...


Semi correct but essentially they were on the bandwagon at the beginning as well. I believe it was the Apple II/e that had the first slot.



> IBM originally didn't even want to put graphics capability in their first PC because they didn't think anyone needed anything but text!


True story then again the makers of IBM also through tape was better than disk so when you bought your first IBM PC it didn't come with disk drives. Then again IBM was never a great PC manufacturer.



> Oh, and while PCs are easier to take apart and change the configuration... Ask IBM or Dell how much support they give you if you take apart your computer and put something in it that they didn't originally include. Odds are, you are on your own with extra devices and configuration changes.


Show me on newegg where I can order Apple parts to build my own Apple PC that apple would support if I called them with OS questions. IBM doesn't manufacture desktop PC's or laptops. Dell will allow you to do upgrades to them without voiding the warranty. To have it serviced you must put the original components back in it though.



> An iMac (and PC all-in-ones) are basically like laptops in terms of their intended uses being relatively "fixed" and not designed for major upgrades
> 
> People who complain about the inability to upgrade their Mac seldom complain about that same inability to upgrade their laptop PC.


I agree with the lap top part because when you buy a lap top you know you're buying a closed system without upgrade options in the future other then some memory and storage. So people buy them with specific things in mind. If I want to game I buy the best laptop I can with the best graphics card possible.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Didn't the Commodore 64 have quite a few mods and addons...some of which requried opening the case and even some soldering?

I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike


----------



## Davenlr

It might have, but I dont recall having to open mine to do anything to it (or the C128 I got after it). Now possibly, there was a hack to add a hard drive to it or something. I never did that, as a 10MB drive was over $1000 at the time. I didnt get my first hard drive until I got my first PC-XT clone.

I was in heaven when I got my first 1.44M drive for the C128


----------



## Sixto

No analogy's required ...  

Simply ...

Apple makes cool stuff.

Steve Jobs is a cool guy, with a great vision for what people want, and he's pushed his team hard over the years to actually develop what he's dreamed about.

The world could certainly benefit from more leaders like him. Obviously, competition is good.

This seems pretty factual to me ... and I only use 1 Apple product (an iPad). 

As with most things, when someone is successful, especially when they develop something totally different ... iPod, iPhone, iPad all come to mind ... people try to dream up all kinds of creative reasons why the leader is evil, and selfish, and didn't provide enough variety for all people. Geez, just look in this thread. 

There's a few key lines from the book that I'm reading about Steve Jobs, that seem to sum it up fairly well. I'm about halfway though the book, and the latest chapter had the following:

"I'm as proud of what we don't do as I am of what we do".

"Quality is more important then quantity".

"One home run is much better than two doubles".

The author states "we're not trying to be all things to all people, even though trying to please everyone is sometimes tough to resist".

"What enables Steve to focus is, I think the ability to envision the future and his driving need to make it happen".

He fixates on the perfect product, that's the theme of the company, and then he executes, and there's been plenty of false steps along the way, but there's certainly many highlights as well. Many. 

And after 30 years, his vision seems to now finally be recognized more then ever, especially when you have the worst economy in a long time and people are stepping all over themselves to spend $500-$800 on a new product.


----------



## Karen

My sister picked up an iPad at the Apple store a couple of days ago. This morning, she had some books on her computer that she wanted to get onto her iPad. They were pdf files. I read the manual since she can't seem to be able to do that, and told her how to get them into iBooks. Then, a light bulb when off in my head. I imported every one of the online owners manuals I had on my computer into iBooks, then looked for more. I can get my hands on them easily now.  I'd never thought about using it for that!

While I was at it, I imported the iPhone 4 manual and my GPS manual onto my iPhone. <g>


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I've now spent about 2 hours playing with Xoom at Best Buy. According to my newspaper inserts, Staples now carries the wifi-only Xoom, and may have a better return policy. I honestly don't know.
> 
> So Xoom has a crisper screen, better cameras and USB mass storage capability. Memory expandability is not a big deal for me. As a test, I loaded my wife's iPad with enough music, video and books for a typical vacation, and even with the 30 aps we've got on there, there was still about 16gb free of the original 32gb.
> 
> On the "pro" side of the iPad ledger, I find it to be lighter and easier to hold than the Xoom. I also prefer the iPad's 4:3 aspect ratio for browsing web pages. Also, the iPad sports a few more square inches of viewing area at 9.8" 4:3 than the 10.1" 16:9 Xoom display.
> 
> I thought the tabbed Chrome browser on the Xoom would blow away the Safari browser on the iPad, but I find they perform equally well. Xoom will support Flash as soon as Adobe is ready to deliver the Honeycomb version, but I don't miss it as much as I thought I would on the iPad. I guess most sites have already begun transitioning to HTML 5 instead.
> 
> And the iPad "smart cover" is awesome. It provides instant on/off, protection for the screen and keeps the screen at perfect angles for typing or viewing movies. And the magnetic hinges are sheer genius. They snap right into the correct place, every time.


I've had my Xoom for about three weeks now and really like it. I've compared it to my wife's iPad (original not 2) and it is a little heavier and harder to hold in certain circumstances (what case you put on both makes a difference). But it's also a little smaller overall and I like that part of it. I'm also a Droid user for 18 months so Android is not new to me. Some things I like better about the Xoom:

1: Ability to quickly change between Applications via the Previous Apps button - calls up the last five applications you had open from within any other app. Wicked-quick way to switch between the things you most commonly do on the tablet.

2: Flash support - version 10.2 for Honeycomb is released and in the Market - seems to work much better than on my Droid, but then the processing power is about 10x or better too.

3: 16:9 form factor for watching movies or any widescreen content. I'll admit I don't do a lot of this but when I do it makes a difference.

4: The screen resolution does make a difference even in apps like Angry Birds that don't exactly max out either devices capabilities.

5:I don't have to use iTunes to put stuff on it.

6: Ability to side-load applications without root / jailbreak. 
6a: Availability of a Web-Based market on my PC where I can find, buy and install over the internet to my Xoom (or Droid). Amazon's marketplace giving away a free paid application every day has made me a fan of them.

7: Speed, speed, and speed - it is extrmely quick to do any task - even editing large PowerPoint Presos using QuickOfficeHD.

8: Personal preference - I like Android better, ymmv.

Draws:

1: The browser - I'll admit to being slightly dissapointed by the browser speed, I thought it would smoke Safari on the iPad but it's pretty close to the same.

2: Battery life, with maybe a slight edge to the iPad based on my testing.

3: Won't charge over USB - why it won't at least trickle charge is beyond me but having a dedicated charger for it is a bummer.

4: Applications - a year ago Apple won this one easily but there are more and more high-quality applications hitting the Android market every day and it shows no sign of slowing down.

Disadvantages:

1: Can't use iTunes, let's face it, if you're used to this for your music on your iPod like I am it would be nice to be able to use the same thing. It's true you can use DoubleTwist, MML or some other applications that will read your iTunes playslist but that's not the same.

2: Digital copies of movies don't work on it - they are all for Win Media Player or iTunes. Not a biggie to me but still disappointing.

3: The cover on the iPad 2 is just too slick and Xoom has nothing like it.

I'm close to having my Xoom to the point I want it to be so I can leave my laptop behind when doing customer presentations. I just need to find a good portable project with HDMI support that doesn't cost a fortune and I'll be set.


----------



## Groundhog45

rich584 said:


> I got a whole list of them starting with "I know it's none of my business, but..."
> 
> Or "not to be nasty, but..."
> 
> People realize that they are gonna antagonize someone and yet they make some half witted attempt to soften the impact by half heartedly apologizing first.
> 
> "Not to be rude, but..." Then, dammit, don't be rude.
> 
> I could go on and on, but...:lol:
> 
> Rich


"The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it's still on my list." :lol:

The soon to be released Toshiba Android Tablet has already had some good press.


----------



## Shades228

Just checked BB refund page because I had to check on something.

Exchange or return your item anytime from the original purchase date within the timeframe below:

14 days for computers, monitors, projectors, camcorders, digital cameras, iPads, *tablets* and radar detectors 
30 days for all other products 
45 days for all products for Reward Zone Program Premier Silver members*


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> 1: Ability to quickly change between Applications via the Previous Apps button - calls up the last five applications you had open from within any other app. Wicked-quick way to switch between the things you most commonly do on the tablet.


I liked that about Honeycomb too, but I recently discovered that you just have to double-tap the HOME button on the iPad2 to scroll through a band of all the apps you previously opened, in order of most recent use. You can quickly switch to them, or press-hold them to selectively kill any open apps, to free up system resources.



> 3: 16:9 form factor for watching movies or any widescreen content. I'll admit I don't do a lot of this but when I do it makes a difference.


I agree better for movies, but less optimal for web browsing, IMHO.



> 7: Speed, speed, and speed - it is extrmely quick to do any task - even editing large PowerPoint Presos using QuickOfficeHD.


I agree it's quick. So is the iPad2, tho. I'm guessing you're comparing it to your wife's iPad 1 speed?



> 2: Battery life, with maybe a slight edge to the iPad based on my testing.


If the chart on this page is correct, default screen brightness is 1/3 higher on the iPad2. So if all else was equal when testing, the iPad 2's 10 hour battery life is truly impressive, especially since it's only 2/3 the thickness of the Xoom.


----------



## dennisj00

Anybody taking bets on which platform will have to have anti-virus / malware software first? Android versus IOS?


----------



## tcusta00

dennisj00 said:


> Anybody taking bets on which platform will have to have anti-virus / malware software first? Android versus IOS?


Is it possible it's already there in the OS? Not sure how that would work on iOS otherwise.


----------



## Chris Blount

bobukcat said:


> I've had my Xoom for about three weeks now and really like it. I've compared it to my wife's iPad (original not 2) and it is a little heavier and harder to hold in certain circumstances (what case you put on both makes a difference). But it's also a little smaller overall and I like that part of it. I'm also a Droid user for 18 months so Android is not new to me. Some things I like better about the Xoom:
> 
> 1: Ability to quickly change between Applications via the Previous Apps button - calls up the last five applications you had open from within any other app. Wicked-quick way to switch between the things you most commonly do on the tablet.
> 
> 2: Flash support - version 10.2 for Honeycomb is released and in the Market - seems to work much better than on my Droid, but then the processing power is about 10x or better too.
> 
> 3: 16:9 form factor for watching movies or any widescreen content. I'll admit I don't do a lot of this but when I do it makes a difference.
> 
> 4: The screen resolution does make a difference even in apps like Angry Birds that don't exactly max out either devices capabilities.
> 
> 5:I don't have to use iTunes to put stuff on it.
> 
> 6: Ability to side-load applications without root / jailbreak.
> 6a: Availability of a Web-Based market on my PC where I can find, buy and install over the internet to my Xoom (or Droid). Amazon's marketplace giving away a free paid application every day has made me a fan of them.
> 
> 7: Speed, speed, and speed - it is extrmely quick to do any task - even editing large PowerPoint Presos using QuickOfficeHD.
> 
> 8: Personal preference - I like Android better, ymmv.
> 
> Draws:
> 
> 1: The browser - I'll admit to being slightly dissapointed by the browser speed, I thought it would smoke Safari on the iPad but it's pretty close to the same.
> 
> 2: Battery life, with maybe a slight edge to the iPad based on my testing.
> 
> 3: Won't charge over USB - why it won't at least trickle charge is beyond me but having a dedicated charger for it is a bummer.
> 
> 4: Applications - a year ago Apple won this one easily but there are more and more high-quality applications hitting the Android market every day and it shows no sign of slowing down.
> 
> Disadvantages:
> 
> 1: Can't use iTunes, let's face it, if you're used to this for your music on your iPod like I am it would be nice to be able to use the same thing. It's true you can use DoubleTwist, MML or some other applications that will read your iTunes playslist but that's not the same.
> 
> 2: Digital copies of movies don't work on it - they are all for Win Media Player or iTunes. Not a biggie to me but still disappointing.
> 
> 3: The cover on the iPad 2 is just too slick and Xoom has nothing like it.
> 
> I'm close to having my Xoom to the point I want it to be so I can leave my laptop behind when doing customer presentations. I just need to find a good portable project with HDMI support that doesn't cost a fortune and I'll be set.


Good post. I haven't held a Xoom buy how is the build quality? Yesterday I picked up a Samsung Galaxy Tab and it felt like cheap plastic and something that would break easily. The iPad is solid which is something I like.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Good post. I haven't held a Xoom buy how is the build quality? Yesterday I picked up a Samsung Galaxy Tab and it felt like cheap plastic and something that would break easily. The iPad is solid which is something I like.


Xoom is very solid, IMHO.

I also think the rubberized back on the new Toshiba looks promising, in the event it gets dropped. See the 360 view here.


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> Good post. I haven't held a Xoom buy how is the build quality? Yesterday I picked up a Samsung Galaxy Tab and it felt like cheap plastic and something that would break easily. The iPad is solid which is something I like.


It's pretty much what you expect from a high-end Motorola device, solid but a little on the heavy side. I really like the soft-touch plastics on the rear as it helps keep a grip on it when not in a case. Early reviews mentioned the volume keys being loose but on mine they are as solid as can be. It definitely feels like it could take a little bit of abuse but I'm hoping not to test that theory!

Another thing I forgot to mention I like about it - I can send it in and have it upgraded to LTE later if I want to (at no charge including shipping). I don't even have it activated on VZW at all right now but if it becomes more of a laptop replacement I may do so and the speeds that people are seeing on that LTE network are simply amazing.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I liked that about Honeycomb too, but I recently discovered that you just have to double-tap the HOME button on the iPad2 to scroll through a band of all the apps you previously opened, in order of most recent use. You can quickly switch to them, or press-hold them to selectively kill any open apps, to free up system resources.
> 
> I agree better for movies, but less optimal for web browsing, IMHO.
> 
> I agree it's quick. So is the iPad2, tho. I'm guessing you're comparing it to your wife's iPad 1 speed?
> 
> If the chart on this page is correct, default screen brightness is 1/3 higher on the iPad2. So if all else was equal when testing, the iPad 2's 10 hour battery life is truly impressive, especially since it's only 2/3 the thickness of the Xoom.


Didn't know about the double-tap the home button trick until someone mentioned it in this thread earlier - haven't tried it on the her iPad1 but I assume it will work on there if the s/w is up to date.

I don't really have a preference either way on the form factor for web browsing. They both switch from portrait to landscape (or vice versa) and pinch zoom so quickly that it is too easy to make it look the way you want on either one in my experience.

The display may be brighter on the iPad2 and the battery is truly impressive but they may have the brightness turned up to compensate some what for the lower resolution panel? I haven't found one single instance where I find the display in the Xoom to be lacking - quite the opposite actually. Caveat - I don't use it as an e-reader, I have a Kindle for that and E-ink kicks any LCD's butt for reading a book IMHO.

I figure this is Moto's (and really anyone's on Android) first foray into a Tablet and they had to be in a rush to get it to market given what the iPad has done. I think next generation units will lose some of the weight and thickness - how long before they can match the iPad's impressive figure is another question.

Competition and choices for consumers is a good thing!


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> [...] The display may be brighter on the iPad2 and the battery is truly impressive but they may have the brightness turned up to compensate some what for the lower resolution panel? I haven't found one single instance where I find the display in the Xoom to be lacking - quite the opposite actually. Caveat - I don't use it as an e-reader, I have a Kindle for that and E-ink kicks any LCD's butt for reading a book IMHO.


Xoom screen resolution is definitely superior for e-book or web-site reading, IMHO. It's only about 20% higher, but 160 PPI vs. 132 PPI makes a huge difference for destinations like NYTimes.com/chrome, at least to my eyes. The type is so much crisper and cleaner when you compare them side by side.

Re: the brightness, I'm not sure how that would compensate for decreased resolution. It does improve visibility outdoors, tho, and I would expect the iPad2's display to be more readable than the Xoom's (or iPad1's) when used outside. Since she mostly uses it indoors, I actually lowered the default brightness on my wife's iPad2 to make the blacks a little blacker, which has the added benefit of extending her battery life even more.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> *I think next generation units will lose some of the weight and thickness -* how long before they can match the iPad's impressive figure is another question.
> 
> Competition and choices for consumers is a good thing!


First...let me say that your reports on the direct comparisons are appreciated and appear to be quite objective. My experiences, which admittedly are far less than yours on these two devices, still renders similar observations.

The highlighted point above is also right on target.

For that very reason, pent-up interest / purchasing is likely to accelerate once iPad3 and comparable Android and Windows-based devices hit the market.

Kudos to those early adopters of iPad and iPad2, as well as the Xoom. You get to enjoy what they can do now.

That said, based on the cost of these things (as well as related services), some of us are holding out a while longer to see the real potential of tablets, and likely then...take the plunge.


----------



## Sixto

iPads seem to be all the rage in the schools as well.

Had a long conversation with a teacher this week, and some of the local public schools are now giving students entering the 5th grade an iPad.

There also was a recent education session for a number of the schools in the local area, and the iPad break-out sessions were a big hit. Lots of current and future plans.

Local catholic school is now ordering a bunch of iPads in the Fall as well.

Major topic within education these days.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> iPads seem to be all the rage in the schools as well.
> 
> Had a long conversation with a teacher this week, and some of the local public schools are now giving students entering the 5th grade an iPad.


Not to divest the topic at hand....but that is a real concern.

Many middle-schoolers already struggle to actually write.

Many struggle to spell.

Many text only with shortcut terms.

With an added layer of graphical-based devices....

Some educators and parents are of the firm belief that the ability for kids to communicate via the written word (correct spelling and words) is a dying skill.

There are many signs of it already - so I'd be vehemently opposed to having kids that young get them. Later, sure...


----------



## harsh

tcusta00 said:


> Is it possible it's already there in the OS? Not sure how that would work on iOS otherwise.


I don't think malware will really become an issue until more blackhats figure out how multitasking works. I suggest that this is one of the reasons why multitasking took so interminably long to deliver.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That said, based on the cost of these things (as well as related services), some of us are holding out a while longer to see the real potential of tablets, and likely then...take the plunge.


When my wife told me she wanted an iPad last year I gave her the "what in the h*** do you need that for / what are you going to use it for" lines - but then quickly realized she is impossible to buy for and she had just given me a gift idea so I shut up and order her one.  She uses it a LOT - particularly in the kitchen.

When the Xoom was announced I was pretty excited and then started thinking what the h*** do I need that for, what would I use if for and would it be worth it given the price tag. Then I got an e-mail with a $100 off code, realized I'm spoiled and hard to buy for and told my wife that's what I wanted for my birthday and she quickly ordered it. 

I find myself using it a lot more than I thought I would, but in all honesty I could very easily live without it - but did I mention that I'm spoiled?? 

My point is that I can definitely understand anyone thinking twice and hard before putting down the cash for either one. Even if you're looking for a laptop / netbook there are plenty of other choices and of course prices will continue to come down on these things as competition improves.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> My point is that I can definitely understand anyone thinking twice and hard before putting down the cash for either one. Even if you're looking for a laptop / netbook there are plenty of other choices and of course prices will continue to come down on these things as competition improves.


Well said.

That's not to diminish things for early adopters. It's good you all find a use for these, and enjoy them.

But with tablets being still reasonably immature, the potential is still not quite there yet, and "putting down the cash" is often balanced with "can it do what I think it should" or else "can I get some real value out of this purchase".


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not to divest the topic at hand....but that is a real concern ...


Yep, that was certainly part of the discussion, but it appears that they see real value in on-line books, and educational tools.

Not sure what my view on the topic is, many pros and cons.

One big issue was major political battle with the funding for books, big process in place to distribute physical books to both public and private schools, and now schools want to trade that funding for electronic copies, very complex political battle.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Yep, that was certainly part of the discussion, but it appears that they see real value in on-line books, and educational tools.
> 
> Not sure what my view on the topic is, many pros and cons.
> 
> One big issue was major political battle with the funding for books, big process in place to distribute physical books to both public and private schools, and now schools want to trade that funding for electronic copies, very complex political battle.


We can see that as well - two sides on the topic of course.

But it is a concern. No harm in introducing them later when the basics are embedded in those young minds.


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> "The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it's still on my list." :lol:
> 
> The soon to be released Toshiba Android Tablet has already had some good press.


Ever wonder if people who talk like that know how annoying and sometimes hurtful it is?

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> The soon to be released Toshiba Android Tablet has already had some good press.


WHOA!

That's getting closer to a home run.

Now to wait to see what it will cost....


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Good post. I haven't held a Xoom buy how is the build quality? Yesterday I picked up a Samsung Galaxy Tab and it felt like cheap plastic and something that would break easily. The iPad is solid which is something I like.


The Xoom seems to be built well. But it doesn't compare favorably to my Droid X. It doesn't have the apps that the Droid X has available, I don't understand why. I just bought it on Friday and we've tried to appreciate it, but I don't see any use for it, so it's going back today. I give up. I think I'll find something else to spend my money on.

Between the iPad and the Xoom, I like the Xoom better but the apps aren't there, especially SwiftKey, which I have on the Droid and it's an intuitive keyboard and it's not available for the Xoom. The Xoom is very fast and I found it easier to learn because it's pretty much like the Droid OS. Of the two, if they were giving them away free, I think I'd take the iPad2 just because it has more apps.

I bought the Xoom at a Staples because it was closer to home and I was in the vicinity. They wanted $200 for a two year warranty. The iPad was $79 for two years. Don't know how much BB charges for a two year warranty, but if you buy any of them with Amex, you get the manufacturer's warranty extended for two years, a concept the folks at Staples couldn't grasp or didn't want to admit.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> The Xoom seems to be built well. But it doesn't compare favorably to my Droid X. It doesn't have the apps that the Droid X has available, I don't understand why. I just bought it on Friday and we've tried to appreciate it, but I don't see any use for it, so it's going back today. I give up. I think I'll find something else to spend my money on.


Don't quite give up yet.

This seems to show real promise...thanks to the info from Groundhog45)...
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/ebtext.to?page=AndroidTablet&CJPID=10707080-3781821-e0igzj17dh&src=MADD&cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-CommissionJunction

I'm on that mailing list as of today...


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I figure this is Moto's (and really anyone's on Android) first foray into a Tablet and they had to be in a rush to get it to market given what the iPad has done. I think next generation units will lose some of the weight and thickness - how long before they can match the iPad's impressive figure is another question.


That's the impression I've gotten this weekend. I seems as if it should have access to all the Android apps, but it doesn't and that's probably because they were in a hurry to get it out.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> First...let me say that your reports on the direct comparisons are appreciated and appear to be quite objective. My experiences, which admittedly are far less than yours on these two devices, still renders similar observations.
> 
> The highlighted point above is also right on target.
> 
> For that very reason, pent-up interest / purchasing is likely to accelerate once iPad3 and comparable Android and Windows-based devices hit the market.
> 
> Kudos to those early adopters of iPad and iPad2, as well as the Xoom. You get to enjoy what they can do now.
> 
> That said, based on the cost of these things (as well as related services), some of us are holding out a while longer to see the real potential of tablets, and likely then...take the plunge.


Yup, I've learned my lesson. I'll be waiting with you.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> The Xoom seems to be built well. But it doesn't compare favorably to my Droid X. It doesn't have the apps that the Droid X has available, I don't understand why. I just bought it on Friday and we've tried to appreciate it, but I don't see any use for it, so it's going back today. I give up. I think I'll find something else to spend my money on.


I'm not surprised. If you didn't see any utility for the iPad with more apps available, I didn't think you were going to find a use for the Xoom with less apps. I was going to post that observation _before_ you picked-up the Xoom, but just in case you changed your mind about tablets in the interim, I knew you were going to buy it from a place you could return it, so no harm trying it.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Don't quite give up yet.
> 
> This seems to show real promise...thanks to the info from Groundhog45)...
> http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/ebtext.to?page=AndroidTablet&CJPID=10707080-3781821-e0igzj17dh&src=MADD&cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-CommissionJunction
> 
> I'm on that mailing list as of today...


That one seems like its finally a tablet that would meet my needs.


----------



## Richierich

It doesn't state on their Website what the Battery Life is so I would need to know that as I am tired of only getting 2 to 3 hours of Battery Usage on my 14" Dell PC.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I'm not surprised. If you didn't see any utility for the iPad with more apps available, I didn't think you were going to find a use for the Xoom with less apps. I was going to post that observation _before_ you picked-up the Xoom, but just in case you changed your mind about tablets in the interim, I knew you were going to buy it from a place you could return it, so no harm trying it.


Damn shame to want something and not like it when you get it. I think the *FAN's* approach is what I'll try to follow, but he seems enamored by the Toshiba...

If the Xoom would have had the same apps as my Droid, I'd keep it. I really can't understand why it doesn't. As *bobukcat* said, it seems as if they rushed it into production. Never a good thing.

Rich


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> That one seems like its finally a tablet that would meet my needs.


My only concern with this tablet (Toshiba's) is it looks extremely thick, compared to the Xoom. And I find the Xoom more tiring to hold than the iPad2. I do like the rubberized back, tho, in case it gets dropped.

I'm trying to find specs on the weight, thickness, and battery life, but can't seem to. Amazon has a product page for it here.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> It doesn't state on their Website what the Battery Life is so I would need to know that as I am tired of only getting 2 to 3 hours of Battery Usage on my 14" Dell PC.


It has a "long life" and "replaceable" battery....both of which are pluses IMHO.

But yes, we'll have to see the final specs.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Steve said:


> To be fair, you can usually upgrade a laptop's memory and hard drive. I've done it with the last 3-4 I've owned.


You can upgrade the RAM pretty easily in an iMac too.

Also, you can take apart an iMac about as carefully as you can a laptop and upgrade the hard drive there as well. The iMacs use laptop-like hard drives, so they cost a little more than desktop internal drives, though.



Steve said:


> That said, people who don't use a tablet yet are probably not aware that it's a different experience, so things that may be important in the PC paradigm (like expandable memory and storage) are not as important to tablet users. It's a different beast.


Exactly... which is why I don't expect an iPad or iPhone to be expandable. I'm not sure who would buy any tablet computer and think it (or expect it) to be upgradeable. Would it be cool? Maybe... but Apple keeps releasing new models every year anyway, so who would upgrade their old one instead of buying the new one?



Shades228 said:


> I guess if you think that a microwave is as versitle as Apple I can't argue with you. Both design their products for one thing and if you don't want to use it how they want you to then it's not going to be any good.


But that was the point. I think for some reason people are buying iPads and expecting something different than has been advertised. You can walk into an Apple store or Best Buy and play with an iPad all you want before buying... so there really should be no surprises. As far as I can tell, there are no hidden limitations... so anyone who buys it and is surprised, didn't shop properly.

It would be like buying a VW Beetle and being surprised that it won't do 200 mph on the open highway. What about the Beetle made you think that it would?

The iPad is not a replacement for a good laptop or desktop. It just isn't.. so to complain that it isn't makes little sense... because it should be judged against what it claims to be.

On that criteria, I'm sure there are still valid complaints because nothing is perfect.



Shades228 said:


> Now perhaps you migth try a realistic comparison.
> 
> The IBM XT built in 1983, the second IBM PC made, had an ISA slot, and internal HD. They could be upgraded based on the technology available at the time.


Yes... but in fairness... most desktop computers "upgrade" capability is smoke and mirrors... because how long can you really upgrade that desktop before you need a faster CPU or they switched to EISA, PCI, etc.? Most desktops really aren't as upgrade-able as they are sold... because the components available today will be obsolete in a year or two and you have to buy a new system anyway.



Shades228 said:


> Clearly Commodore is a great innovative company today leading the way with... oh wait.


I didn't say they were available today. My point was that the best selling computer ever was a closed system and no other computer (open or closed architecture) has come close to lasting as long or selling as many.

So the ability to upgrade is often over-hyped since most folk end up replacing with a new model and don't actually upgrade much anyway. It's an illusion that some companies use to sell you something.

I think of my Samsung HDTV from a few years ago that was sold as "3D ready" but of course it really isn't, because they stopped selling the 3D glasses for it and it isn't compatible with the current 3D implementation... so the upgrade-ability didn't amount to much as it turns out. I still have to buy a new TV if I wanted 3D.



Shades228 said:


> While I loved my C64, and my Amiga's, the closed architecture is what drove the market from them compared to DOS and Apple.


Not really. What drove the market away from the C64 had little to do with closed architecture and more to do with better technology and the expansion of PCs. The PC and Apple computers started to be a LOT better than the C64 and that company could no longer compete.

An expandable C64 wouldn't have competed either. It needed to be re-invented, and Commodore waited too long and rested on its laurels while other companies innovated better computers.



Shades228 said:


> Show me on newegg where I can order Apple parts to build my own Apple PC that apple would support if I called them with OS questions.


Show me where I can build my own PC and have IBM or Dell or HP support that!

It's a strawman argument... because Apple is no different than other companies in that regard... they only support their products.

Microsoft is generally where you would call for OS questions, not the PC manufacturer... and Microsoft has gone to a pay for play model... so they won't answer OS questions for free...

Maybe Apple could start charging for OS tech support for people who build their own Macs.



Shades228 said:


> IBM doesn't manufacture desktop PC's or laptops.


Not anymore... I know they sold that business to Lenovo... but I figured throwing that name into the mix would confuse people. IBM still makes servers, though... so you could compare an IBM server to a Mac Pro possibly.



Shades228 said:


> Dell will allow you to do upgrades to them without voiding the warranty. To have it serviced you must put the original components back in it though.


Which is essentially the same thing as not supporting other products. IF you install a new sound card, but Dell will not support your computer unless you take it back out... then it sure wouldn't help you with that sound card.

Hence my original statement that being able to upgrade has less benefits than it is sometimes thought of having.



Shades228 said:


> I agree with the lap top part because when you buy a lap top you know you're buying a closed system without upgrade options in the future other then some memory and storage. So people buy them with specific things in mind. If I want to game I buy the best laptop I can with the best graphics card possible.


That's the same way they should shop for an iMac or for an iPad or iPhone too. These devices are sold as closed systems... no surprised. In fact, like I said about the iMac... some have performed other upgrades (like a new hard drive) themselves that were not advertised as possible.

If you want an upgradeable Mac you have to buy their "server" model... Of course now that Macs are using the same Intel chips as PCs... you can probably build one much easier now if you wanted. I don't know how easy it is to obtain the Apple OS, though, if you build your own.



Mike Bertelson said:


> Didn't the Commodore 64 have quite a few mods and addons...some of which requried opening the case and even some soldering?
> 
> I've been wrong before. :grin:


Like a lot of the older computers... there were some mods and things you could do to them. I did lots of things to my old TRS-80 color computers like adding more memory, replacing with a better keyboard, etc.. but I never modified my C64.

For the purposes of this discussion, though, I was limiting the scope to intended upgrades that might be supported by a manufacturer. I'm not aware of any "mods" like we are just now talking about that any manufacturer ever supports.


----------



## Shades228

Stewart Vernon said:


> You can upgrade the RAM pretty easily in an iMac too.
> 
> Also, you can take apart an iMac about as carefully as you can a laptop and upgrade the hard drive there as well. The iMacs use laptop-like hard drives, so they cost a little more than desktop internal drives, though.
> 
> Exactly... which is why I don't expect an iPad or iPhone to be expandable. I'm not sure who would buy any tablet computer and think it (or expect it) to be upgradeable. Would it be cool? Maybe... but Apple keeps releasing new models every year anyway, so who would upgrade their old one instead of buying the new one?
> 
> But that was the point. I think for some reason people are buying iPads and expecting something different than has been advertised. You can walk into an Apple store or Best Buy and play with an iPad all you want before buying... so there really should be no surprises. As far as I can tell, there are no hidden limitations... so anyone who buys it and is surprised, didn't shop properly.
> 
> It would be like buying a VW Beetle and being surprised that it won't do 200 mph on the open highway. What about the Beetle made you think that it would?
> 
> The iPad is not a replacement for a good laptop or desktop. It just isn't.. so to complain that it isn't makes little sense... because it should be judged against what it claims to be.
> 
> On that criteria, I'm sure there are still valid complaints because nothing is perfect.
> 
> Yes... but in fairness... most desktop computers "upgrade" capability is smoke and mirrors... because how long can you really upgrade that desktop before you need a faster CPU or they switched to EISA, PCI, etc.? Most desktops really aren't as upgrade-able as they are sold... because the components available today will be obsolete in a year or two and you have to buy a new system anyway.
> 
> I didn't say they were available today. My point was that the best selling computer ever was a closed system and no other computer (open or closed architecture) has come close to lasting as long or selling as many.
> 
> So the ability to upgrade is often over-hyped since most folk end up replacing with a new model and don't actually upgrade much anyway. It's an illusion that some companies use to sell you something.
> 
> I think of my Samsung HDTV from a few years ago that was sold as "3D ready" but of course it really isn't, because they stopped selling the 3D glasses for it and it isn't compatible with the current 3D implementation... so the upgrade-ability didn't amount to much as it turns out. I still have to buy a new TV if I wanted 3D.
> 
> Not really. What drove the market away from the C64 had little to do with closed architecture and more to do with better technology and the expansion of PCs. The PC and Apple computers started to be a LOT better than the C64 and that company could no longer compete.
> 
> An expandable C64 wouldn't have competed either. It needed to be re-invented, and Commodore waited too long and rested on its laurels while other companies innovated better computers.
> 
> Show me where I can build my own PC and have IBM or Dell or HP support that!
> 
> It's a strawman argument... because Apple is no different than other companies in that regard... they only support their products.
> 
> Microsoft is generally where you would call for OS questions, not the PC manufacturer... and Microsoft has gone to a pay for play model... so they won't answer OS questions for free...
> 
> Maybe Apple could start charging for OS tech support for people who build their own Macs.
> 
> Not anymore... I know they sold that business to Lenovo... but I figured throwing that name into the mix would confuse people. IBM still makes servers, though... so you could compare an IBM server to a Mac Pro possibly.
> 
> Which is essentially the same thing as not supporting other products. IF you install a new sound card, but Dell will not support your computer unless you take it back out... then it sure wouldn't help you with that sound card.
> 
> Hence my original statement that being able to upgrade has less benefits than it is sometimes thought of having.
> 
> That's the same way they should shop for an iMac or for an iPad or iPhone too. These devices are sold as closed systems... no surprised. In fact, like I said about the iMac... some have performed other upgrades (like a new hard drive) themselves that were not advertised as possible.
> 
> If you want an upgradeable Mac you have to buy their "server" model... Of course now that Macs are using the same Intel chips as PCs... you can probably build one much easier now if you wanted. I don't know how easy it is to obtain the Apple OS, though, if you build your own.
> 
> Like a lot of the older computers... there were some mods and things you could do to them. I did lots of things to my old TRS-80 color computers like adding more memory, replacing with a better keyboard, etc.. but I never modified my C64.
> 
> For the purposes of this discussion, though, I was limiting the scope to intended upgrades that might be supported by a manufacturer. I'm not aware of any "mods" like we are just now talking about that any manufacturer ever supports.


You're speaking to specific products where I'm speaking as a company standpoint. Apple is a control freak so it controls everything with it's products. So you can't compare Apple to any other company for consumer use because no other company designs it's hardware and software together.

Again Apple has their place but from a personal consumer stand point I don't want to buy something as flexible as a computer or a even a cell phone with having the openess that I want. I know that Apple will not give me that so I don't buy Apple.

If you built a PC you would contact the manufacturer for each part for service. You would contact Microsoft for OS support (9 out of 10 times).

If you did that with a Hackintosh Apple wouldn't even support the OS that you bought and paid for because you violated their terms by installing it on a non Macintosh computer.


----------



## spartanstew

Yep, been waiting to see the Toshiba for awhile now. Am also anxious to see the first releases from LG and Acer.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Yep, been waiting to see the Toshiba for awhile now. Am also anxious to see the first releases from LG and Acer.


Here's some current info on the Android 3.0-based Toshiba for you sir...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2748964#post2748964


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> Yep, been waiting to see the Toshiba for awhile now. Am also anxious to see the first releases from LG and Acer.


I want to see what HP comes out with. They usually have good products, well thought out and well built. Expensive, a bit, but well worth the price.

Rich


----------



## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's some current info on the Android 3.0-based Toshiba for you sir...
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2748964#post2748964


Thanks, I've got a few sites bookmarked on it and have been watching it since CES.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Shades228 said:


> You're speaking to specific products where I'm speaking as a company standpoint. Apple is a control freak so it controls everything with it's products. So you can't compare Apple to any other company for consumer use because no other company designs it's hardware and software together.
> 
> Again Apple has their place but from a personal consumer stand point I don't want to buy something as flexible as a computer or a even a cell phone with having the openess that I want. I know that Apple will not give me that so I don't buy Apple.
> 
> If you built a PC you would contact the manufacturer for each part for service. You would contact Microsoft for OS support (9 out of 10 times).
> 
> If you did that with a Hackintosh Apple wouldn't even support the OS that you bought and paid for because you violated their terms by installing it on a non Macintosh computer.


I don't see Apple as the evil empire...

But, be that as it may...

The point I was making was... what control are you giving up? Why would you buy an Apple if you didn't want an Apple?

You, as an example, say you expect more so you don't buy Apple. That's 100% correct for you to do... so you wouldn't buy an Apple product and then complain about it... you just wouldn't buy one because you know you don't want it.

People who do buy Apple, on the other hand, aren't giving up any control at all. They are buying the product that most closely does what they want it to do.

If I buy a VM Beetle instead of a Porsche... I'm not "giving up" speed. I didn't want speed in the first place.

That was the point I was trying to make.

I personally don't see Apple's desire to control its own product line as a bad thing... but independent of that, I was mainly refuting the notion that anyone who buys Apple has given up control. That implies that people were forced to buy the Apple product vs deciding it was what they wanted all along.


----------



## Sixto

Shades228 said:


> You're speaking to specific products where I'm speaking as a company standpoint. Apple is a control freak so it controls everything with it's products. ...


Interesting how this thread keeps have similarities to the book I'm reading (mentioned earlier).

Some say "control freak" ... the latest chapter in the book refers to it as "The Whole-Product Theory" ...

"From day one, Steve has lived a philosophy that is an extension of the holistic product development concept. This one says that you cannot produce successful technology products - products that work well and live up to expectations - unless the company that created the hardware also creates the software. I came to call his stance on this the Whole Product Theory"

"For a time I argued with Steve about the notion. I thought that if we sold our software, as Microsoft does, we could be a better product and control the software market" ... "He convinced me I was wrong, and he did that not just with his reasoned explanations but, over time, by my witnessing the success of Apple's products and the deficiencies of just about everybody else's"

So ... it's all part of the company's philosophy for product perfection.


----------



## Alan Gordon

I'm a PC... just getting that out of the way... 

I started with computers at a young age... knew my way around MS-DOS pretty well, and my first computer (of my own) was a Tandy (LOL!!) laptop. The only time I have ever used a Mac, I was not impressed... so I'm definately NOT an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination... 

... but over the years, I have come to respect them. It started with the iPod, it continued with the iPhone, and expanded once again with the iPad... which is the first Apple product that I own. 

I could never justify the cost of the iPod, and the iPhone was never an option until recently, and by then, well, I already had a Samsung Android phone that (aside from a few bugs and Samsung's slow pace at updating their OS) offers a comparable experience to the iPhone... some things superior, some things inferior. However, the iPad... well, I couldn't help but get it, and I absolutely LOVE IT!

I've seen some of the Android tablets, and I think it's great that there are choices out there, but unlike the Android phones, I've yet to be impressed by them. Bottom line, if the Android tablets were all there were out there, I would've put off buying a tablet for at least a couple more years. That's not to say the iPad is perfect, but it's closer for me than the alternatives out there.

As for the "Apple Kool-Aid," well, I try to stay away from the term "Kool-Aid" as a general usage, because it's basically insulting someone's intelligence, implying that they are too gullible to form an opinion on their own... which is sometimes the case, but can also simply be a case of someone having different tastes or opinions.

I will probably remain a PC... at least for some time anyway. In a perfect world, I'd love to give a Mac a try, but Macs aren't exactly priced for my tax bracket, but who knows, one of these days that might change, and I'd like to give them a try, but until then, I'll stick with my PCs and iPads... 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Stewart Vernon said:


> The point I was making was... what control are you giving up? Why would you buy an Apple if you didn't want an Apple?
> 
> You, as an example, say you expect more so you don't buy Apple. That's 100% correct for you to do... so you wouldn't buy an Apple product and then complain about it... you just wouldn't buy one because you know you don't want it.
> 
> People who do buy Apple, on the other hand, aren't giving up any control at all. They are buying the product that most closely does what they want it to do.
> 
> If I buy a VM Beetle instead of a Porsche... I'm not "giving up" speed. I didn't want speed in the first place.
> 
> That was the point I was trying to make.
> 
> I personally don't see Apple's desire to control its own product line as a bad thing... but independent of that, I was mainly refuting the notion that anyone who buys Apple has given up control. That implies that people were forced to buy the Apple product vs deciding it was what they wanted all along.


I totally agree.

Buying the iPad has been one of the smartest purchases I've made in recent history, and I don't feel like I've given up anything.



Sixto said:


> Interesting how this thread keeps have similarities to the book I'm reading (mentioned earlier).
> 
> Some say "control freak" ... the latest chapter in the book refers to it as "The Whole-Product Theory" ...
> 
> "From day one, Steve has lived a philosophy that is an extension of the holistic product development concept. This one says that you cannot produce successful technology products - products that work well and live up to expectations - unless the company that created the hardware also creates the software. I came to call his stance on this the Whole Product Theory"
> 
> "For a time I argued with Steve about the notion. I thought that if we sold our software, as Microsoft does, we could be a better product and control the software market" ... "He convinced me I was wrong, and he did that not just with his reasoned explanations but, over time, by my witnessing the success of Apple's products and the deficiencies of just about everybody else's"
> 
> So ... it's all part of the company's philosophy for product perfection.


Interesting that this discussion is happening on a satellite message board when both satellite companies produce their STB operating systems...

~Alan


----------



## tcusta00

"Alan Gordon" said:


> I'm a PC... just getting that out of the way...
> 
> I started with computers at a young age... knew my way around MS-DOS pretty well, and my first computer (of my own) was a Tandy (LOL!!) laptop. The only time I have ever used a Mac, I was not impressed... so I'm definately NOT an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination...
> 
> ... but over the years, I have come to respect them. It started with the iPod, it continued with the iPhone, and expanded once again with the iPad... which is the first Apple product that I own.
> 
> I could never justify the cost of the iPod, and the iPhone was never an option until recently, and by then, well, I already had a Samsung Android phone that (aside from a few bugs and Samsung's slow pace at updating their OS) offers a comparable experience to the iPhone... some things superior, some things inferior. However, the iPad... well, I couldn't help but get it, and I absolutely LOVE IT!
> 
> I've seen some of the Android tablets, and I think it's great that there are choices out there, but unlike the Android phones, I've yet to be impressed by them. Bottom line, if the Android tablets were all there were out there, I would've put off buying a tablet for at least a couple more years. That's not to say the iPad is perfect, but it's closer for me than the alternatives out there.
> 
> As for the "Apple Kool-Aid," well, I try to stay away from the term "Kool-Aid" as a general usage, because it's basically insulting someone's intelligence, implying that they are too gullible to form an opinion on their own... which is sometimes the case, but can also simply be a case of someone having different tastes or opinions.
> 
> I will probably remain a PC... at least for some time anyway. In a perfect world, I'd love to give a Mac a try, but Macs aren't exactly priced for my tax bracket, but who knows, one of these days that might change, and I'd like to give them a try, but until then, I'll stick with my PCs and iPads...
> 
> ~Alan


Having just bought my first Mac last year I was the same way about cost. I thought they were way too expensive. But the build quality alone (I got a MacBook pro) makes the pricetag worth it. I'm glad I bit the bullet and did it. It wasn't easy when I looked at comparable PCs with pricetags at a fraction.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> Interesting that this discussion is happening on a satellite message board *when both satellite companies produce their STB operating systems*...


*...in Linux.*

There. Helped finish you sentence.


----------



## Chris Blount

tcusta00 said:


> Having just bought my first Mac last year I was the same way about cost. I thought they were way too expensive. But the build quality alone (I got a MacBook pro) makes the pricetag worth it. I'm glad I bit the bullet and did it. It wasn't easy when I looked at comparable PCs with pricetags at a fraction.


I agree. I got tired of cheap plastic crap. Resale value on Macs is also much higher. Once you buy your first Mac, you never have to pay full price again. Selling the old one is much more lucrative.


----------



## tcusta00

"Chris Blount" said:


> I agree. I got tired of cheap plastic crap. Resale value on Macs is also much higher. Once you buy your first Mac, you never have to pay full price again. Selling the old one is much more lucrative.


Ah yeah, never thought about that. I've always sold the iPhones and recently iPad to upgrade but never even really crossed my mind I could do the same with the MBP. Time for an upgrade? Lol


----------



## bobukcat

"rich584" said:


> The Xoom seems to be built well. But it doesn't compare favorably to my Droid X. It doesn't have the apps that the Droid X has available, I don't understand why. I just bought it on Friday and we've tried to appreciate it, but I don't see any use for it, so it's going back today. I give up. I think I'll find something else to spend my money on.
> 
> Between the iPad and the Xoom, I like the Xoom better but the apps aren't there, especially SwiftKey, which I have on the Droid and it's an intuitive keyboard and it's not available for the Xoom. The Xoom is very fast and I found it easier to learn because it's pretty much like the Droid OS. Of the two, if they were giving them away free, I think I'd take the iPad2 just because it has more apps.
> 
> I bought the Xoom at a Staples because it was closer to home and I was in the vicinity. They wanted $200 for a two year warranty. The iPad was $79 for two years. Don't know how much BB charges for a two year warranty, but if you buy any of them with Amex, you get the manufacturer's warranty extended for two years, a concept the folks at Staples couldn't grasp or didn't want to admit.
> 
> Rich


Rich, I have Swiftkey on my Xoom but I'm not sure where I got it as I don't see it in the Android Market on my Xoom. I probably downloaded a beta version apk from somewhere or possibly installed from the Amazon Market which does show it. Either way its not my favorite keyboard on the Xoom or my Droid. For the Xoom I prefer the ThumbKeyboard application. What other applications from the X weren't there for the Xoom, if you remember?


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Rich, I have Swiftkey on my Xoom but I'm not sure where I got it as I don't see it in the Android Market on my Xoom. I probably downloaded a beta version apk from somewhere or possibly installed from the Amazon Market which does show it. Either way its not my favorite keyboard on the Xoom or my Droid. For the Xoom I prefer the ThumbKeyboard application. What other applications from the X weren't there for the Xoom, if you remember?


I had to sync up the Xoom with the Droid X. Somehow, the Xoom knew the Droid was there and it downloaded some of the apps I have on the Droid, but not SwiftKey for some reason. It wasn't because SwiftKey wasn't free, the Xoom also got the Oxford English Dictionary, which costs about $30. I have no idea why this happened.

I don't remember seeing Springpad offered on the Xoom. I also couldn't find any other keyboard options and that was a complaint I saw on a review. I did get a DBSTalk app on the Xoom, but all I could do was look at posts. I did get a NetFlix app with the iPad and I couldn't get one on the Xoom. Can't get one on my Droid either. All in all, the iPad did have a lot of apps that I might have used that the Xoom didn't.

I'm used to using SwiftKey, but I'll give Thumbkeyboard a try. I like the way SwiftKey finishes sentences. Seems like the more you use it, the better it gets at that.

I gotta admit, between the iPad, the Xoom and the Droid, I'm not sure what apps were where. Confusing, to say the least. The Xoom just didn't seem as well finished as the iPad was.

If my answer seems like a very confused person wrote this, it's because a very confused person wrote it.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

"rich584" said:


> I had to sync up the Xoom with the Droid X. Somehow, the Xoom knew the Droid was there and it downloaded some of the apps I have on the Droid, but not SwiftKey for some reason. It wasn't because SwiftKey wasn't free, the Xoom also got the Oxford English Dictionary, which costs about $30. I have no idea why this happened.
> 
> I don't remember seeing Springpad offered on the Xoom. I also couldn't find any other keyboard options and that was a complaint I saw on a review. I did get a DBSTalk app on the Xoom, but all I could do was look at posts. I did get a NetFlix app with the iPad and I couldn't get one on the Xoom. Can't get one on my Droid either. All in all, the iPad did have a lot of apps that I might have used that the Xoom didn't.
> 
> I'm used to using SwiftKey, but I'll give Thumbkeyboard a try. I like the way SwiftKey finishes sentences. Seems like the more you use it, the better it gets at that.
> 
> I gotta admit, between the iPad, the Xoom and the Droid, I'm not sure what apps were where. Confusing, to say the least. The Xoom just didn't seem as well finished as the iPad was.
> 
> If my answer seems like a very confused person wrote this, it's because a very confused person wrote it.... :lol:
> 
> Rich


I posted both of these replies from the DBSTalk application on my Xoom. 

I do wish I could get Netflix on the Xoom, not site how much I would actually use it but.... There is a Netflix app that will let you edit your Queue and works for streaming on some devices but not on the Xoom yet.


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *...in Linux.*
> 
> There. Helped finish you sentence.


Not really... 

Sorry... I don't always clarify my thoughts as well as I should... particularly when I'm dealing with a project at work that's always stressful...

My point was that Dish Network from the beginning (to my knowledge), and DirecTV for years now, have taken control of the software in which you view their service. Basically, they want their subscribers to have a consistent experience (give and take a little). While choices can be good, there's nothing wrong with that...

If I want to play one of my PS3 games ("Uncharted" for example), I'd need to fix or replace my PS3. If I want to play a "Halo" game, or use Kinect, I'd need to buy an XBOX 360. If I were to buy either one, I'd bet you my only choice of manufacturers would be Sony or Microsoft... 

If I want to visit DBSTalk.com, I can do so with a PC, a Mac, or a Linux machine. If I want to make a spreadsheet, I can do that with either choice. As long as no one is forcing you to buy a Mac, then there's nothing wrong with Apple "choosing" what they feel is the best way for you to experience their products. If we do not like the way they chose, we are free to go elsewhere.

When I bought my iPad, I researched it, and I knew what I was getting. Would I like more GBs, or the ability to expand using an SD memory card, sure, but I knew that before I got one, and it has yet to be an issue for me, and I don't see it becoming one. On the other hand, I need a PC for work, and Apple prices their computers too high for someone like me, so I'm perfectly fine with my PC products.



tcusta00 said:


> Having just bought my first Mac last year I was the same way about cost. I thought they were way too expensive. But the build quality alone (I got a MacBook pro) makes the pricetag worth it. I'm glad I bit the bullet and did it. It wasn't easy when I looked at comparable PCs with pricetags at a fraction.


A relative of mine (he first got me started on the internet) was telling me last year that he converted to Mac and hasn't been happier...

After I got the iPad, I honestly don't see me using my laptop or netbook much... well, I'm using my laptop right now, but only because my desktop went kaput earlier this year (not long after my HDTV went kaput), and I haven't finished cleaning off an old desktop to use. That lets out the MacBook... and Mac Mini and the iMac are both a little steep for a "minimum wage schlub"... plus, I'd still need a PC for when I bring work home...

That's fine though, because I like Windows... well, Windows 7 and XP, if I had to use Vista, I'd probably consider a Mac! 

~Alan


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I posted both of these replies from the DBSTalk application on my Xoom.
> 
> I do wish I could get Netflix on the Xoom, not site how much I would actually use it but.... There is a Netflix app that will let you edit your Queue and works for streaming on some devices but not on the Xoom yet.


I wasn't even able to sign in to DBS on my Xoom. I got the NetFlix apps that let you manipulate the content, but I could view NF content on the iPad. The PQ on the iPad was more than acceptable.

I was looking at Amazon apps last night and they have SwiftKey. Perhaps that's where I got it. I'll have to check my saved Amazon receipts when I get back on my email program. Just checked, I did get it on my Droid not from Amazon. When I look at the apps offered on the Droid, the lists seem to go on forever. Not so with the Xoom.

Add all that to my displeasure with purchasing the Xoom from Staples and getting attacked by the manager and one of his cohorts about purchasing a $199 two year warranty on the Xoom. Last big purchase I make from Staples. All the time I was using the Xoom, I was thinking about getting double teamed by those guys implying that I was stupid because I didn't want to spend one third of the original cost for a warranty. And I used my Amex card to buy it and that extends the manufacturer's warranty for a year. The whole thing with Staples was a bad experience. When I told my wife what happened, her first comment was, "You'll be taking that back." That was before we even opened the box.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

staples is such a horrible place for big ticket items...and yet their no questions asked return policy can be worth it...


----------



## Steve

Apparently Sony will be releasing a Honeycomb tablet as well, end of summer.

As one reader commented,_ "Oh, man... I can't wait to pay $1200.00 for a 9.8" tablet with a built-in Memory Stick reader."_ :lol:


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> staples is such a horrible place for big ticket items...and yet their no questions asked return policy can be worth it...


They used up their one chance with me. Too many other ways to purchase things than using Staples. The only real reason I went there was because I was so close to it. Live and learn.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Apparently Sony will be releasing a Honeycomb tablet as well, end of summer.
> 
> As one reader commented,_ "Oh, man... I can't wait to pay $1200.00 for a 9.8" tablet with a built-in Memory Stick reader."_ :lol:


This is gonna be a never ending story. After all these manufacturers get done releasing their tablets, it'll be next March and the new iPad3 will come out and blow them all away and restart the cycle again.

Meanwhile only 22 days to my birthday and I gotta feeling that I'm not gonna get anything again. Only eight days to my son's 21st birthday and my wife's actually considering buying him a Dodge Charger. :nono2:

Rich


----------



## HDJulie

Rich, is it that you aren't going to get anything for your birthday, or that you can't find anything that you want so your wife doesn't know what to get you. Tell her YOU want the Dodge Charger .


----------



## Richierich

RasputinAXP said:


> staples is such a horrible place for big ticket items...and yet their no questions asked return policy can be worth it...


I would rather take my chances with BestBuy as they have a Great Return Policy and have always treated me Nice and they have Great Extended Warranties if I choose to go that route.

I'll probably get the Xoom unless the Toshiba Tablet turns out to be Great and works as advertised but if you can't get alot of Apps with either then I will just wait.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> I would rather take my chances with BestBuy as they have a Great Return Policy and have always treated me Nice and they have Great Extended Warranties if I choose to go that route.
> 
> I'll probably get the Xoom unless the Toshiba Tablet turns out to be Great and works as advertised but if you can't get alot of Apps with either then I will just wait.


Assuming all else is equal, my advice would be to wait and get the lightest Honeycomb tablet available. I say that because holding the Xoom at BestBuy for an hour was a bit more "tiring" than an hour spent with my wife's iPad2 at home. And the Xoom only weighs 20% more than the iPad2, although it's almost 50% thicker at .5". I don't know what the weight and thickness of the Toshiba is. Those specs haven't yet been published, AFAIK. But based on this view, it looks like it will definitely be thicker than the Xoom. Looks to be about 3/4", based on the 1/4" jacks pictured there.

I now understand now why Apple chose to make the iPad 2 slimmer and lighter, rather than keep it the same size as the iPad 1 and increase the battery life. They did their homework.

Just my .02, FWIW.


----------



## Richierich

Steve, I agree that Lighter is what I want and a Long Battery Life is Imperative and the Number 1 thing I look for in a Tablet.


----------



## Steve

richierich said:


> Steve, I agree that Lighter is what I want and a Long Battery Life is Imperative and the Number 1 thing I look for in a Tablet.


Ya. I actually lowered the default screen brightness a bit on my wife's iPad2 from 50% to 40%... it's VERY bright indoors. It's been used a lot over the past three weeks... at least a couple of hours per day, and we've only charged it about once per week, so far.


----------



## Steve

If you subscribe to the theory that second generation products tend to be better, the Samsung 10.1 inch tablet appears to be the lightest of the four in this chart, along with the largest battery. :up:


----------



## Richierich

i'll be curious to see how the Toshiba Tablet stacks up against the others as I like the User Replaceable Battery and the USB and Mini USB Ports.

I probably want buy one until June or July prior to my Hawaii Vacation.


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> Rich, is it that you aren't going to get anything for your birthday, or that you can't find anything that you want so your wife doesn't know what to get you. Tell her YOU want the Dodge Charger .


Oh, she doesn't know what to get me. And I don't know what I want. She bought me a Caddie a couple years ago. I don't want a Dodge Charger.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Assuming all else is equal, my advice would be to wait and get the lightest Honeycomb tablet available. I say that because holding the Xoom at BestBuy for an hour was a bit more "tiring" than an hour spent with my wife's iPad2 at home. And the Xoom only weighs 20% more than the iPad2, although it's almost 50% thicker at .5". I don't know what the weight and thickness of the Toshiba is. Those specs haven't yet been published, AFAIK. But based on this view, it looks like it will definitely be thicker than the Xoom. Looks to be about 3/4", based on the 1/4" jacks pictured there.
> 
> I now understand now why Apple chose to make the iPad 2 slimmer and lighter, rather than keep it the same size as the iPad 1 and increase the battery life. They did their homework.
> 
> Just my .02, FWIW.


They always do their homework.

Rich


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> If you subscribe to the theory that second generation products tend to be better, the Samsung 10.1 inch tablet appears to be the lightest of the four in this chart, along with the largest battery. :up:


Does anyone know if the Samsung Tab actually supports USB. I'm reading conflicting info, anywhere from "yes", to "no" to "yes with a dongle".

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a xoom. After looking at the Toshiba and the Samsung, I'm not sure I see an advantage in waiting.


----------



## Laxguy

Apple does great research. 

-1 in re thread title....

Via jpm's iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> If you subscribe to the theory that second generation products tend to be better, the Samsung 10.1 inch tablet appears to be the lightest of the four in this chart, along with the largest battery. :up:


Based on their track record of not upgrading the OS version on their Android Smartphones I don't think I would take a chance on a Samsung tablet.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"bobukcat" said:


> Based on their track record of not upgrading the OS version on their Android Smartphones I don't think I would take a chance on a Samsung tablet.


AMEN brother...

I think my next HDTV will be a Samsung though...

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~~Who owns a Samsung Galaxy S smartphone...


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Based on their track record of not upgrading the OS version on their Android Smartphones I don't think I would take a chance on a Samsung tablet.


Hopefully they'll do better with Honeycomb updates, because at 20% lighter with a larger capacity battery than the other 10.1 inch tablet on that list, the Galaxy II could be a winner. Assuming it's priced right, of course.


----------



## bobukcat

"Steve" said:


> Hopefully they'll do better with Honeycomb updates, because at 20% lighter with a larger capacity battery than the other 10.1 inch tablet on that list, the Galaxy II could be a winner. Assuming it's priced right, of course.


Probably have better luck with XDA revs building updated ROMs for it than getting official builds from Samsung provided you don't mind rooting and installing a non-signed build.


----------



## harsh

HDJulie said:


> Rich, is it that you aren't going to get anything for your birthday, or that you can't find anything that you want so your wife doesn't know what to get you. Tell her YOU want the Dodge Charger .


If he really wants to strike terror, he should tell her he wants a Dodge Challenger. Nothing screams of revisiting childhood like a car with only two doors.


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> Thanks, I've got a few sites bookmarked on it and have been watching it since CES.


I just found that Asus on Amazon. Cost's $1200. Geez!

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

bobukcat said:


> Based on their track record of not upgrading the OS version on their Android Smartphones I don't think I would take a chance on a Samsung tablet.


It's wasn't Samsung that's been the problem. For instance, Samsung released 2.3 for the Captivate to AT&T last fall. AT&T released it to the phones in the last few weeks. AT&T held the update for nearly six months.

Mike


----------



## Mikemok1981

Mike Bertelson said:


> It's wasn't Samsung that's been the problem. For instance, Samsung released 2.3 for the Captivate to AT&T last fall. AT&T released it to the phones in the last few weeks. AT&T held the update for nearly six months.
> 
> Mike


Indeed, you could get the update from Samsung Kies for quite some time. I'm still not sure if AT&T is pushing the upgrade OTA yet.


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> I just found that Asus on Amazon. Cost's $1200. Geez!


I'll be honest, if I didn't already get an iPad, and was interested in an Android tablet, the ASUS would be the brand I'd be looking at...

~Alan


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> I'll be honest, if I didn't already get an iPad, and was interested in an Android tablet, the ASUS would be the brand I'd be looking at...
> 
> ~Alan


At that price? I gotta admit I was stunned to see that price. Kinda like having your heart set on a Mac laptop and figuring, "How much more could it be than a Compaq?" Talk about price shock!

I think Apple pretty much set the mean price of tablets.

Rich


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> At that price? I gotta admit I was stunned to see that price. Kinda like having your heart set on a Mac laptop and figuring, "How much more could it be than a Compaq?" Talk about price shock!
> 
> I think Apple pretty much set the mean price of tablets.


LOL!! No... not at that price. 

As I said before, I'm not really interested in the Android tablets... not really an insult since I think the Android phones (overall) are really good, but the tablets just don't interest me like the iPad did. I'd want one eventually, but I wouldn't be in a hurry, so I'd wait for the prices to come down...

HOWEVER, ASUS makes my netbook, and I think they did a really great job with it, so I would definitely be keeping an eye on their products...

~Alan


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Mikemok1981 said:


> Indeed, you could get the update from Samsung Kies for quite some time. I'm still not sure if AT&T is pushing the upgrade OTA yet.


You could get it OTA for a short period of time but now it seems to be limited to Kies. It hasn't been that long, maybe 5 weeks since you could install the AT&T release but I've had 2.2 since last fall...rooted with OCLF installed. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> At that price? I gotta admit I was stunned to see that price. Kinda like having your heart set on a Mac laptop and figuring, "How much more could it be than a Compaq?" Talk about price shock!
> 
> I think Apple pretty much set the mean price of tablets.
> 
> Rich


No sticker shock needed. Since those units are not out yet...I suspect that's only a placeholder price.

I found multiple sites reporting the price will be $499 upon release on multiple Android 3.0-based tablets.


----------



## raott

Went ahead and got both the Xoom and Ipad 2. Justified it by giving the Ipad to my wife for an early mothers day present.

I'll keep the Xoom for myself as it seems to lend itself more to my needs.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well, President Obama has his iPad, Stephen Colbert has his... IT'S MY TURN DERNIT!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, President Obama has his iPad, Stephen Colbert has his... IT'S MY TURN DERNIT!


You've made a pretty good business case there sir.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well yes, as everyone knows I'm as powerful a media figure as either of those guys


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well yes, as everyone knows I'm as powerful a media figure as either of those guys


OK - I'm calling my buddy Donald and getting you on Celebrity Apprentice next season.

In the mean time...as long as you're happy with an iPad2...that's just fine.


----------



## Sixto

The broadcasters were using the iPad during the baseball game last night, lots of good uses. iPads everywhere ... 

Homes, schools, on the road, ...


----------



## Chris Blount

Well this can't be good:

http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4

I hope sales pickup.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Well this can't be good:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4
> 
> I hope sales pickup.


There was no wi-fi only Xoom available until last week, so it may be selling a lot better now. Also, if you want 4G, the current models will have to be sent in to be upgraded. I'll bet that's causing some folks to hold off (along with Verizon's 2-year commitment).


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Well this can't be good:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4
> 
> I hope sales pickup.


I couldn't get over how few apps there were on the Xoom compared to my Droid X. Today I found out why. This quote is from ConsumerReports' May 2011 edition:

"...and can connect to the Internet only via Wi-Fi, such as a home router. Such Wi-Fi only tablets also can't access the primary Android app store, Google's Android Market."

Now I see your link and have even more doubts about the Xoom.

CS will come out with a more in depth report on tablets next month.

I gotta tell you, Chris, between the usual problems with all my equipment, the deal with Yes and D* and trying to decide which tablet I want, or if I want one, I'm gonna have a head explosion. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> There was no wi-fi only Xoom available until last week, so it may be selling a lot better now. Also, if you want 4G, the current models will have to be sent in to be upgraded. I'll bet that's causing some folks to hold off (along with Verizon's 2-year commitment).


There must be a way to get 3G from some other source that doesn't have that two year committment, no?

Rich


----------



## Sixto

Chris Blount said:


> Well this can't be good:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/motorola-xoom-sales-2011-4
> 
> I hope sales pickup.


Yep, saw that earlier, as compared to the iPad's 1M-2M a month at least, but figured wouldn't post because there's probably always diehards routing for the underdog. Competition is good though, keeps everyone striving for better.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> There must be a way to get 3G from some other source that doesn't have that two year committment, no?


I'm not sure, Rich. AFAIK, you can only get it 3G from Verizon right now. There are some rumors about a Sprint version coming out soon, tho.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> There was no wi-fi only Xoom available until last week, so it may be selling a lot better now. Also, if you want 4G, the current models will have to be sent in to be upgraded. I'll bet that's causing some folks to hold off (along with Verizon's 2-year commitment).


I was just looking at the Amazon website and it says the iPad2 has a 1G processor. And the lines are forming at 2 in the morning at the Apple store in Bridgewater.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> There must be a way to get 3G from some other source that doesn't have that two year committment, no?
> 
> Rich


Rich, I am thinking about buying the WiFi Version because I have a Virgin MiFi 2200 and I can use that with the WiFi Version of Xoom.

Of course you have to pay for a Data Plan but it supports 5 devices at the same time.


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> There must be a way to get 3G from some other source that doesn't have that two year committment, no?
> 
> Rich


AFAIK, and I'm still early in my figuring all this out, the options are to root and use bluetooth with your phone or use your phone as a hotspot.

I have sprint, for $29 a month my EVO can be a hotspot for 5 devices with unlimited download (Sprint is the one company that is still truely unlimited). I plan to use that option since I bought the wifi only versions of both the Ipad and Xoom.


----------



## Richierich

My Virgin MiFi 2200 is Unlimited Data Usage as I am Grandfathered in as they changed it to a Tiered Pricing Structure and so did Sprint so unless you are Grandfathered in there is No Unlimited Plan out there and that is why I bought the Virgin MiFi 2200 before they Limited their Plan.


----------



## raott

richierich said:


> My Virgin MiFi 2200 is Unlimited Data Usage as I am Grandfathered in as they changed it to a Tiered Pricing Structure and so did Sprint so unless you are Grandfathered in there is No Unlimited Plan out there and that is why I bought the Virgin MiFi 2200 before they Limited their Plan.


I don't believe that is true about Sprint, at least not with the EVO. Sprint is running commercials right now about "unlimited" really meaning "unlimited".

There are no disclaimers at all on the hotspot feature describing any sort of limitation and it was also part of the justification behind the $10 fee with the EVO - that you would be using additional bandwidth.


----------



## Richierich

Well, Virgin runs on the Sprint Backbone and they told me that Sprint was changing their Plans so you had better read the Fine Print which states that they can Throttle you back because of FAP (Fair Access Policy which states that if they determine you are an Excessive User they can throttle back or limit the amount of bandwidth you receive for the duration of the Month.

They are all doing it as there is only so much bandwidth in the Pipeline.


----------



## raott

richierich said:


> Well, Virgin runs on the Sprint Backbone and they told me that Sprint was changing their Plans so you had better read the Fine Print which states that they can Throttle you back because of FAP (Fair Access Policy which states that if they determine you are an Excessive User they can throttle back or limit the amount of bandwidth you receive for the duration of the Month.
> 
> They are all doing it as there is only so much bandwidth in the Pipeline.


Unless something has changed:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-we-wont-throttle-wireless-speeds-our-network/2010-06-14

And from Dan Hesse himself

http://androidwebportal.com/2011/03/sprint-sticks-to-its-unlimited-data-guns-with-new-ad-video/

"The other day, I looked up the word unlimited in the dictionary. Nowhere in the definition did I see words like metering, overage, or throttling, which is code for slowing you down. Only Sprint gives you true unlimited calling, texting, surfing, TV and navigation on all phones."


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Unless something has changed:
> 
> http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-we-wont-throttle-wireless-speeds-our-network/2010-06-14
> 
> And from Dan Hesse himself
> 
> http://androidwebportal.com/2011/03/sprint-sticks-to-its-unlimited-data-guns-with-new-ad-video/
> 
> "The other day, I looked up the word unlimited in the dictionary. Nowhere in the definition did I see words like metering, overage, or throttling, which is code for slowing you down. Only Sprint gives you true unlimited calling, texting, surfing, TV and navigation on all phones."


The most important part of all this is the language typically on the last page at the bottom of virtually every services agreement in existence...

"**Terms subject to change*"


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The most important part of all this is the language typically on the last page at the bottom of virtually every services agreement in existence...
> 
> "**Terms subject to change*"


And until they do, Sprint will continue to be the best value (assuming you are OK with their coverage)


----------



## raott

"rich584" said:


> I couldn't get over how few apps there were on the Xoom compared to my Droid X. Today I found out why. This quote is from ConsumerReports' May 2011 edition:
> 
> "...and can connect to the Internet only via Wi-Fi, such as a home router. Such Wi-Fi only tablets also can't access the primary Android app store, Google's Android Market."
> 
> Now I see your link and have even more doubts about the Xoom.
> 
> CS will come out with a more in depth report on tablets next month.
> 
> I gotta tell you, Chris, between the usual problems with all my equipment, the deal with Yes and D* and trying to decide which tablet I want, or if I want one, I'm gonna have a head explosion.
> 
> Rich


That quote is incorrect. I have the wifi only version and have access to the market.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> That quote is incorrect. I have the wifi only version and have access to the market.


It meant the complete market of Android apps. When I had the Xoom, I had the Market app too, but it was limited and had nowhere near as many apps as my Droid X. Take a look at your Market and see if you can download SwiftKey. You can on the Droid, but you can't on the Xoom.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> That quote is incorrect. I have the wifi only version and have access to the market.


By the way, that quote is word for word from ComsumerReports.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> By the way, that quote is word for word from ComsumerReports.
> 
> Rich


Well, we know they're never wrong about anything, right??? 

Not all applications show up for the tablets running Honeycomb, but not every iPod application runs or looks good on an iPad either. I think that Google is trying to make sure that the user experience on the tablet for the applications they do get is positive and not one that looks like it's "blown-up" for the larger screen like some I've seen for the iPad. Load the Amazon app store on the tablet and I think you'll see this problem go away, if you like the experience from some of those applications or not is another story.

The iPad has been out for about a year, give developers that much time with Honeycomb and I think you'll see more positive results in the actual applications for it. I personally haven't found any I really miss (I don't use my tablet for exactly the same things as I do my smartphone and vice-versa).


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> There was no wi-fi only Xoom available until last week, so it may be selling a lot better now. Also, if you want 4G, the current models will have to be sent in to be upgraded. I'll bet that's causing some folks to hold off (along with Verizon's 2-year commitment).


I agree and think that the fact the Xoom was selling at a price higher than a comparable iPad was a bad move for sales. It may be that Moto knew that but because of production costs, etc. decided to go forward anyway as a way to establish some brand building - the original Dodge Viper was never profitable in and of itself but it built consumer interest in the brand. Then again, the Xoom does / did hold some specification advantages over the iPad so maybe they thought that would drive more sales, who knows?

I've been fielding quite a few calls from co-workers and friends who are thinking of buying the Xoom, but many of them are already Android users because of me.


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> By the way, that quote is word for word from ComsumerReports.
> 
> Rich


Don't get me wrong, I"m not suprised it was a word for word. However, I assure you, I have access to the google market in the same way I have access on my EVO.

Both tablet apps and regular droid apps show up (unless they have been tagged by google as specifically not working with a tablet, and there are a few of those). Most regular apps I've used so far scale nicely (including the dbstalk app).

So any implication that there are not alot of apps for the xoom is untrue IMO. What is true is there is not alot of apps specifically designed for Honeycomb/tablet)


----------



## raott

bobukcat said:


> I agree and think that the fact the Xoom was selling at a price higher than a comparable iPad was a bad move for sales. It may be that Moto knew that but because of production costs, etc. decided to go forward anyway as a way to establish some brand building - the original Dodge Viper was never profitable in and of itself but it built consumer interest in the brand. Then again, the Xoom does / did hold some specification advantages over the iPad so maybe they thought that would drive more sales, who knows?
> 
> I've been fielding quite a few calls from co-workers and friends who are thinking of buying the Xoom, but many of them are already Android users because of me.


I think the price difference is smaller than has been reported. I paid $589 yesterday for a 32gig wi-fi only model. The comperable Ipad 2 (32gb and wifi only) is $599. I think the issue is more Apple giving more variants, ie the $499 16 gig wi-fi model


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Fast forward about 8 weeks - 5-6 new Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablets released about the same time. Several offer features not in Xoom, and all offer features not in any iPad.

Things will get interesting.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Fast forward about 8 weeks - 5-6 new Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablets released about the same time. Several offer features not in Xoom, and all offer features not in any iPad.
> 
> Things will get interesting.


I did not see many features coming that are not already on the Xoom, which is why I jumped on the Xoom. I know the Toshiba supports standard USB, but that was about it.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Well, we know they're never wrong about anything, right???
> 
> Not all applications show up for the tablets running Honeycomb, but not every iPod application runs or looks good on an iPad either. I think that Google is trying to make sure that the user experience on the tablet for the applications they do get is positive and not one that looks like it's "blown-up" for the larger screen like some I've seen for the iPad. Load the Amazon app store on the tablet and I think you'll see this problem go away, if you like the experience from some of those applications or not is another story.
> 
> The iPad has been out for about a year, give developers that much time with Honeycomb and I think you'll see more positive results in the actual applications for it. I personally haven't found any I really miss (I don't use my tablet for exactly the same things as I do my smartphone and vice-versa).


Please don't get the idea that I'm arguing against the Xoom. I liked it better than the iPad that I bought and returned. I was just disappointed in the lack of apps compared to my Droid X. The iPad did cost me more than the Xoom and Amazon has begun dropping the prices on the Xoom. I think what ConsumerReports was saying was that, without 3G, the Xoom did not have access to as many apps as it should have.

That's kind of a problem for me. I don't want to pay for another data program and I don't want to give Verizon any more money. If I could find a way to get, at least, a 3G monthly plan, I would and I'd happily give the Xoom another chance. Of course, I do have the Amazon Apps store on the Droid and have had it since it came out.

I think I'll wait a while and see what happens.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> I think what ConsumerReports was saying was that, without 3G, the Xoom did not have access to as many apps as it should have..............
> 
> I think I'll wait a while and see what happens.
> 
> Rich


I'm not aware of any Apps that are 3G only. With that said, there are a couple of Apps that have bugs on the wifi only model, ie Pandora.

I've communicated with the folks at Pandora who are aware of the issue and working on a fix.

With that said, honeycomb is very immature at this point and waiting isnt a bad option, unless you are ok dealing with the bugs.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> I'm not aware of any Apps that are 3G only. With that said, there are a couple of Apps that have bugs on the wifi only model, ie Pandora.
> 
> I've communicated with the folks at Pandora who are aware of the issue and working on a fix.
> 
> With that said, honeycomb is very immature at this point and waiting isnt a bad option, unless you are ok dealing with the bugs.


Again, try to download SwiftKey on a Xoom from the Xoom's Market. I've got it on my Droid X and you can buy it at Amazon's Android Apps store, but I could not find it on the Xoom. I don't remember any other particular examples, but I sure didn't see all the apps on the Xoom that I see on the Droid.

By the way, I didn't find the Xoom buggy at all. I liked it better than the iPad. But, I'm used to my Droid and the Xoom is very much like the Droid.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> Please don't get the idea that I'm arguing against the Xoom. I liked it better than the iPad that I bought and returned. I was just disappointed in the lack of apps compared to my Droid X. The iPad did cost me more than the Xoom and Amazon has begun dropping the prices on the Xoom. I think what ConsumerReports was saying was that, without 3G, the Xoom did not have access to as many apps as it should have.
> 
> That's kind of a problem for me. I don't want to pay for another data program and I don't want to give Verizon any more money. If I could find a way to get, at least, a 3G monthly plan, I would and I'd happily give the Xoom another chance. Of course, I do have the Amazon Apps store on the Droid and have had it since it came out.
> 
> I think I'll wait a while and see what happens.
> 
> Rich


I think the guys at C.R. were smoking something the day they wrote that article..... :alterhase

VZW does offer a monthly data plan - $20 a month for 1GB & $20 for each additional Gig over. If you want the ability to run the mobile hotspot on the tablet they start at $35 per month for 3GB and $10 per Gig over that. I've never had mine activated and probably won't unless I find it can replace my laptop for business meetings (it can never replace it for the other parts of my job) and I can get my employer to add it to my cell-phone plan they already pay. Not very likely.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> I did not see many features coming that are not already on the Xoom, which is why I jumped on the Xoom. I know the Toshiba supports standard USB, but that was about it.


Removable/replaceable battery for one...

Form factors vary, with 2 of the models supposedly lighter and smaller...

USB is a big item to many. It's cited as one of the top 2 items the Apple folks missed with any version of the iPad (SD storage being the other big item missing in the iPads).


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Removable/replaceable battery for one...
> 
> Form factors vary, with 2 of the models supposedly lighter and smaller...
> 
> USB is a big item to many. It's cited as one of the top 2 items the Apple folks missed with any version of the iPad (SD storage being the other big item missing in the iPads).


Ah yes, I forgot about the battery. The USB is there with the Xoom, it will require a dongle when it (along with the SD slot) is turned on.


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> Again, try to download SwiftKey on a Xoom from the Xoom's Market. I've got it on my Droid X and you can buy it at Amazon's Android Apps store, but I could not find it on the Xoom. I don't remember any other particular examples, but I sure didn't see all the apps on the Xoom that I see on the Droid.
> 
> By the way, I didn't find the Xoom buggy at all. I liked it better than the iPad. But, I'm used to my Droid and the Xoom is very much like the Droid.
> 
> Rich


I believe this is an issue with how the developer classifies his application's compatibility in the official Android Market. They have to tag it as being compatible with Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) or it doesn't show up on a device running 3.0 - the same thing happened when they released 2.2 (Froyo), many developers hadn't tagged their apps as being compatible so they didn't show up. In most cases (and it applies to Swiftkey here) those applications ran / run fine on the newer version but you had to have access to the apk to side-load them. It doesn't appear the Amazon market does the same compatibility checks so you now have a way to get those applications legitimately loaded - however if you already paid for them through the Android Market you may have to buy them again or ask the Dev for a refund which I'm guessing would be hassle - although if they get enough refund requests maybe they'll go ahead and tag their application for 3.0.

I feel as if we've hijacked this thread a bit so I'll stop commenting on the Xoom / Android tablets here - my apologies to the mods.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I think the guys at C.R. were smoking something the day they wrote that article..... :alterhase


You might want to read the whole article, they were supportive of the Xoom. Let me see if I can find it...found it, here's the *link*.



> VZW does offer a monthly data plan - $20 a month for 1GB & $20 for each additional Gig over. If you want the ability to run the mobile hotspot on the tablet they start at $35 per month for 3GB and $10 per Gig over that. I've never had mine activated and probably won't unless I find it can replace my laptop for business meetings (it can never replace it for the other parts of my job) and I can get my employer to add it to my cell-phone plan they already pay. Not very likely.


I know Verizon offers the monthly data plan, but I don't think it's without a two year commitment. I don't want to get another data plan, I've already got two of them and I'm not even sure if the Xoom is 3G ready, or 4G ready.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I believe this is an issue with how the developer classifies his application's compatibility in the official Android Market. They have to tag it as being compatible with Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) or it doesn't show up on a device running 3.0 - the same thing happened when they released 2.2 (Froyo), many developers hadn't tagged their apps as being compatible so they didn't show up. In most cases (and it applies to Swiftkey here) those applications ran / run fine on the newer version but you had to have access to the apk to side-load them. It doesn't appear the Amazon market does the same compatibility checks so you now have a way to get those applications legitimately loaded - however if you already paid for them through the Android Market you may have to buy them again or ask the Dev for a refund which I'm guessing would be hassle - although if they get enough refund requests maybe they'll go ahead and tag their application for 3.0.
> 
> I feel as if we've hijacked this thread a bit so I'll stop commenting on the Xoom / Android tablets here - my apologies to the mods.


I started the thread to gather information about the tablets. I used that title to get folks to "see" the thread. Please keep posting about the Xooms. I can't "hijack" a thread I started and this seems to be working out just as I hoped it would. If the Mods object to my reasoning, I'll be happy to start a pure "Any info on any Tablet" thread.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I have no problem starting a discussion thread on any tablet you want. If it flies, it flies. If the thread dries up, it's just an indication of lack of interest here, nothing personal. 

I've said it before: We're probably a little more iOS-central here because Mr. Blount, Mr. Brott, Mr. Alsobrook, Mr. Bertelson and I all have iOS devices. It doesn't mean we want this to be an iOS forum but it's what we have and what we've personally chosen.


----------



## raott

bobukcat said:


> I believe this is an issue with how the developer classifies his application's compatibility in the official Android Market. They have to tag it as being compatible with Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) or it doesn't show up on a device running 3.0 - the same thing happened when they released 2.2 (Froyo), many developers hadn't tagged their apps as being compatible so they didn't show up. In most cases (and it applies to Swiftkey here) those applications ran / run fine on the newer version but you had to have access to the apk to side-load them. It doesn't appear the Amazon market does the same compatibility checks so you now have a way to get those applications legitimately loaded - however if you already paid for them through the Android Market you may have to buy them again or ask the Dev for a refund which I'm guessing would be hassle - although if they get enough refund requests maybe they'll go ahead and tag their application for 3.0.
> 
> I feel as if we've hijacked this thread a bit so I'll stop commenting on the Xoom / Android tablets here - my apologies to the mods.


I believe you are correct. It is not a 3g vs wifi only issue, it is an issue as to whether the Apps have been tagged as tablet compatible. For example, the Sirius XM App has not been tagged and does not show up (and for good reason, it doesn't work with Honeycomb right now). I was able to google the apk and installed it, but it didn't work.

Fortunately, for sirius and pandora, since honeycomb allows flash, you can go directly to the websites to listen rather than using the App.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have no problem starting a discussion thread on any tablet you want. If it flies, it flies. If the thread dries up, it's just an indication of lack of interest here, nothing personal.


Just my .02, but I think this thread is a great catch-all for comparing the competition to the category leader.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have no problem starting a discussion thread on any tablet you want. If it flies, it flies. If the thread dries up, it's just an indication of lack of interest here, nothing personal.
> 
> I've said it before: We're probably a little more iOS-central here because Mr. Blount, Mr. Brott, Mr. Alsobrook and I all have iOS devices. It doesn't mean we want this to be an iOS forum but it's what we have and what we've personally chosen.


Thanx, I'd like to keep this thread open to any comments on any tablets.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

That's fine too... you know me: keep it clean and friendly and it's all good.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Ah yes, I forgot about the battery. The USB is there with the Xoom, it will require a dongle when it (along with the SD slot) is turned on.


I think different users have different needs.

I am not a fan of iTunes at all, but I need to interact with it so infrequently, I don't miss the inability to mount the tablet as a USB mass storage device as much as I thought I would. Since I use the "cloud" for mail and docs, none of that stuff gets stored on or physically transferred between devices.

Nor do I miss an SD card slot. I bought a 32GB iPad2. In reality, music and audiobooks go on the iPod, and e-books on the Kindle. Apps and games don't take up much space at all. So far, 52 we've loaded take up about 1.3 GB of storage. And for vacations, I can store 20 hours of DVD res video in 8 gigs of memory. I realize now I probably could have gone with the 16GB model and saved myself $100. Live and learn. 

Finally, with just over three weeks experience, I can't imagine needing a spare battery to get me through a day. So far, our iPad is being used a couple of hours per day and getting charged about every 5-6 days. What probably helps here is I turned-down the default brightness 50% to 40%, which is actually more appropriate for our indoor use. I notice Consumer Reports rates the iPad2 battery life at 12 hours, and I would have to agree, at least so far.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> I think different users have different needs.
> 
> I am not a fan of iTunes at all, but I need to interact with it so infrequently, I don't miss the inability to mount the tablet as a USB mass storage device as much as I thought I would. Since I use the "cloud" for mail and docs, none of that stuff gets stored on or physically transferred between devices.
> 
> Nor do I miss an SD card slot. I bought a 32GB iPad2. In reality, music and audiobooks go on the iPod, and e-books on the Kindle. Apps and games don't take up much space at all. So far, 52 we've loaded take up about 1.3 GB of storage. And for vacations, I can store 20 hours of DVD res video in 8 gigs of memory. I realize now I probably could have gone with the 16GB model and saved myself $100. Live and learn.
> 
> Finally, with just over three weeks experience, I can't imagine needing a spare battery to get me through a day. So far, our iPad is being used a couple of hours per day and getting charged about every 5-6 days. What probably helps here is I turned-down the default brightness 50% to 40%, which is actually more appropriate for our indoor use. I notice Consumer Reports rates the iPad2 battery life at 12 hours, and I would have to agree, at least so far.


I agree. I went with the Xoom for me because I think the additional flexibility will be helpful for my needs. However, I got both so I'll get a chance to see how they both work out. Ended up with the 64gib wifi Ipad 2 for my wife. Probably overkill, but I figure I can put some of my daughter's movies on there.


----------



## Chris Blount

Agree. This thread has been very informative. Kudos to everyone for playing nice.


----------



## bobukcat

raott said:


> Ah yes, I forgot about the battery. The USB is there with the Xoom, it will require a dongle when it (along with the SD slot) is turned on.


I must be missing something, what will the dongle be required for???


----------



## raott

bobukcat said:


> I must be missing something, what will the dongle be required for???


To attach a standard sized USB connector (ie a flash drive)


----------



## Sixto

Have had the iPad for about 6 months ...

Battery has been great ... usually charge every few days, but it all depends on usage, it certainly lasts a long time.

Direct USB ... not sure what I would use that for. I usually sync via iTunes with the provided USB connector for backup and downloading photos and videos. It flys thru the sync in a few minutes, even for many GB's of video. And been using MobileMe for key photos.

Memory ... 32GB certainly enough for my needs, and agree with others that 16GB would probably have been enough, but rather have that extra 16GB just to play it safe.

And Apps have been plentiful, couldn't imagine ever considering any other tablet then the iPad, unless some whiz-bang feature comes elsewhere but then the iPad would probably get it anyway. Family, Friends, pretty much everyone I know talks about the iPad, not sure they even know that other tablets exist.

And figure that this will all be even better once I get an iPhone, iPhone5 hopefully.


----------



## Laxguy

Folks, remember when Apple "omitted" floppy disk drives!? What a hue and cry. Who wants one now? 

Just sayin'.......


----------



## Sixto

Interesting:Apple Buys Up Touch Panels Delaying RIM's Tablet Release

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/07/apple-buys-up-touch-panels-delaying-rims-tablet-release/​


----------



## raott

Sixto and Laxguy,

Imagine this scenario and see if an Ipad would meet my needs (not trying to debate, I'm trying to truly understand).

I have a document, I want to take it to a hotel, do some basic editing and then print it at the hotel, using the hotel computer. What is the easiest way to accomplish that with an Ipad. With a xoom, I just plug it in (since it has a file system) and see it and print.


----------



## Justin23

"raott" said:


> Sixto and Laxguy,
> 
> Imagine this scenario and see if an Ipad would meet my needs (not trying to debate, I'm trying to truly understand).
> 
> I have a document, I want to take it to a hotel, do some basic editing and then print it at the hotel, using the hotel computer. What is the easiest way to accomplish that with an Ipad. With a xoom, I just plug it in (since it has a file system) and see it and print.


AirPrint (only on a few printers, more to come). Bluetooth has worked for me as well.


----------



## tcusta00

"raott" said:


> Sixto and Laxguy,
> 
> Imagine this scenario and see if an Ipad would meet my needs (not trying to debate, I'm trying to truly understand).
> 
> I have a document, I want to take it to a hotel, do some basic editing and then print it at the hotel, using the hotel computer. What is the easiest way to accomplish that with an Ipad. With a xoom, I just plug it in (since it has a file system) and see it and print.


Without installing any software on the hotel computer, email it to yourself and sign into your email on that computer.


----------



## RasputinAXP

tcusta00 said:


> Without installing any software on the hotel computer, email it to yourself and sign into your email on that computer.


This. Airprint is a red herring at this point.


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Removable/replaceable battery for one...
> 
> Form factors vary, with 2 of the models supposedly lighter and smaller...
> 
> USB is a big item to many. It's cited as one of the top 2 items the Apple folks missed with any version of the iPad (SD storage being the other big item missing in the iPads).


The iPad's battery lasts MUCH longer than my smart-phone, and my laptop. I'm not sure about my netbook, but there's probably a far smaller difference than the other two. The only reason why the battery might be nice is if the battery went bad (which might have been your point).

USB doesn't really affect me... though the SD card would have been nice, but it has yet to affect me, and I honestly don't see it being a problem, even with my 16gb model.



Steve said:


> Finally, with just over three weeks experience, I can't imagine needing a spare battery to get me through a day. So far, our iPad is being used a couple of hours per day and getting charged about every 5-6 days. What probably helps here is I turned-down the default brightness 50% to 40%, which is actually more appropriate for our indoor use. I notice Consumer Reports rates the iPad2 battery life at 12 hours, and I would have to agree, at least so far.


Mine's at about 60%, and it still gets fantastic battery life... amazing when you think about how impressive the iPad is...



Sixto said:


> Family, Friends, pretty much everyone I know talks about the iPad, not sure they even know that other tablets exist.


Everyone I know who has played with mine is coveting one, and several are already making plans to purchase one. A few know of the Android tablets, but they are planning on getting the iPad, and if I told others about the Android tablets, they'd want my opinion, and I'd recommend the iPad, so it's kind of moot anyway...

~Alan


----------



## raott

Had the opportunity to play with my wife's iPad. There are things I think the xoom has definite advantage at but it is shocking at how much more polished the ipad is. Xoom is going back tomorrow.


----------



## Herdfan

raott said:


> I have a document, I want to take it to a hotel, do some basic editing and then print it at the hotel, using the hotel computer. What is the easiest way to accomplish that with an Ipad. With a xoom, I just plug it in (since it has a file system) and see it and print.


Send it to your mobileme account cloud, log onto your mobile me account from the hotel computer and print. You can get iPad version of Pages, Numbers and Keynote which are compatible with MS Office docs. So you can edit right on the ipad.


----------



## Steve

You can also use Google docs to create/edit on the iPad. Those files are already stored in "the cloud", so just log onto Google docs on the hotel's PC to print.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Without installing any software on the hotel computer, email it to yourself and sign into your email on that computer.





RasputinAXP said:


> This. Airprint is a red herring at this point.





Herdfan said:


> Send it to your mobileme account cloud, log onto your mobile me account from the hotel computer and print. You can get iPad version of Pages, Numbers and Keynote which are compatible with MS Office docs. So you can edit right on the ipad.





Steve said:


> You can also use Google docs to create/edit on the iPad. Those files are already stored in "the cloud", so just log onto Google docs on the hotel's PC to print.


So based on Apples decision to be highly restrictive in its connections, there appears to be only a series of "workaround" methods such as these above to effectively print to a printer. That's a shortcoming, when compared to the Android units containing USB.

Also, once you start using a tablet with video media files (especially HD caliber supported by the Android-based units....32GB of storage without expansion on the iPads will also be a shortcoming.

This is all great info.

It's steering me more and more toward the Andriod or WIN 7 (WIN 8 soon) tablets, and away from the iPad series.


----------



## tcusta00

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So based on Apples decision to be highly restrictive in its connections, there appears to be only a series of "workaround" methods such as these above to effectively print to a printer. That's a shortcoming, when compared to the Android units containing USB.
> 
> Also, once you start using a tablet with video media files (especially HD caliber supported by the Android-based units....32GB of storage without expansion on the iPads will also be a shortcoming.
> 
> This is all great info.
> 
> It's steering me more and more toward the Andriod or WIN 7 (WIN 8 soon) tablets, and away from the iPad series.


Yes, we know, you don't want an iPad or any other Apple product because they don't suit your needs. You've said this at least 2 dozen times. Please don't buy one. And please stop telling us this every time a shortcoming of the Apple products is mentioned. :nono2::nono2:

Chris: the ignore feature of this forum is broken.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So based on Apples decision to be highly restrictive in its connections, there appears to be only a series of "workaround" methods such as these above to effectively print to a printer. That's a shortcoming, when compared to the Android units containing USB.
> 
> Also, once you start using a tablet with video media files (especially HD caliber supported by the Android-based units....32GB of storage without expansion on the iPads will also be a shortcoming.
> 
> This is all great info.
> 
> It's steering me more and more toward the Andriod or WIN 7 (WIN 8 soon) tablets, and away from the iPad series.


I don't think it so much restrictive but more about changing the paradigm. A USB stick has limitations in itself. If forget to bring it with you, what do you do? With cloud computing, you can access your files from anywhere.

Every since I transferred my files to MobileMe and Carbonite backup, my USB sticks have been sitting in a drawer doing nothing. Sooner than we think, there will be no longer be a need for internal memory on any tablet. Everything will be on "the cloud".

IMHO, Android and Windows are both backward thinking OS's.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So based on Apples decision to be highly restrictive in its connections, there appears to be only a series of "workaround" methods such as these above to effectively print to a printer. That's a shortcoming, when compared to the Android units containing USB.
> 
> Also, once you start using a tablet with video media files (especially HD caliber supported by the Android-based units....32GB of storage without expansion on the iPads will also be a shortcoming.
> 
> This is all great info.
> 
> It's steering me more and more toward the Andriod or WIN 7 (WIN 8 soon) tablets, and away from the iPad series.


Been reading some bad things about the Windows tablets. Step back and reconsider that, I would. I'm swaying back to the iPad side.

Rich


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Had the opportunity to play with my wife's iPad. There are things I think the xoom has definite advantage at but it is shocking at how much more polished the ipad is [...]


Yup. Same reason I went with the iPad. If it's not useful, it's just a fancy paperweight.

Apple's not stupid. They want to make lots and lots of money. If memory expansion or USB connectivity was really important, they would have been included in the iPad2. They weren't, and a month after launch, with millions already sold, the current wait for a new iPad2 is _still_ 3-4 weeks! That's pretty incredible, IMHO.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> You can also use Google docs to create/edit on the iPad. Those files are already stored in "the cloud", so just log onto Google docs on the hotel's PC to print.





Herdfan said:


> Send it to your mobileme account cloud, log onto your mobile me account from the hotel computer and print. You can get iPad version of Pages, Numbers and Keynote which are compatible with MS Office docs. So you can edit right on the ipad.


Thank you, that is helpful information.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> Yup. Same reason I went with the iPad. If it's not useful, it's just a fancy paperweight. If all I wanted was a portable video player, I wouldn't spend $600 or more for one.
> 
> Apple's not stupid. They want to make lots and lots of money. If memory expansion or USB connectivity was really important, they would have been included in the iPad2. They weren't, and a month after launch, with millions already sold, the current wait for a new iPad2 is _still_ 3-4 weeks! That's pretty incredible, IMHO.


I think Honeycomb has great potential, but at this point, there were too many things that I couldn't get to work right and didn't want to deal with the aggravation. I just decided I want something useful now rather than go through the growing pains for the potential

Plus with two Ipads, I can take advantage of things like ichat and factime to communicate back home when traveling.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> IMHO, Android and Windows are both backward thinking OS's.


I was with you right up to here, Chris... Honeycomb is very slick and tablet-centric, IMHO. You should give it a try. It just needs some apps.

I agree about Win 7. Putting it on a tablet is a waste of time. If Microsoft gives the guys who did the new Bing iPad app (released yesterday) some input into Windows 8, they may get it right. Meanwhile, by the time it finally ships on a device, we'll be using iPad 4's under iOS 5, and mostly likely 2nd or 3d generation Honeycomb tablets as well.


----------



## tcusta00

Herdfan said:


> Send it to your mobileme account cloud, log onto your mobile me account from the hotel computer and print. You can get iPad version of Pages, Numbers and Keynote which are compatible with MS Office docs. So you can edit right on the ipad.


Isn't mobileme dead for new users and going away for existing users?


----------



## Sixto

Loved Chris' post, yep, using the cloud has been great.

Obviously large video is local, but 32GB has been plenty (for me).


----------



## klang

tcusta00 said:


> Isn't mobileme dead for new users and going away for existing users?


They have stopped selling the empty boxes at the Apple stores but it looks like you can still sign up online. I don't think it is going away but rumors are it is changing.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> Loved Chris' post, yep, using the cloud has been great.


It's funny how folks who never used a tablet know _exactly_ what's important.  I can say this, because I used to be one of those people! :lol:


----------



## tcusta00

Sixto said:


> Loved Chris' post, yep, using the cloud has been great.
> 
> Obviously large video is local, but 32GB has been plenty (for me).


I put my entire music library on my 32GB and it's still half empty. Can't wait for the ability to load my DVR content onto the iPad.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup. I've seen those too. The most common is the WIN7 shortcomings...since it really wasn't designed to support tablets - that's what WIN8 will be there for.
> 
> Clearly the "perfect tablet" doesn't yet exist, yet there are choices, and *all* have pros and cons.
> 
> I guess the criteria of how you will use it drives the list of candidates.
> 
> In my case, the ability to print content easily, have expandable storage, and good connectivity to other devices via USB are minimum requirements. If the iPad was more "open" in its connectivity and storage, I'd likely look more strongly to that option. It will become an issue more and more as downloaded video media is viewed on these tablet devices (huge files).
> 
> Compatibility to MD Office content would be a plus. Many sites refer to tablet devices as "Tablet PC's, and I guess I share that as a description of a target use for these units. I don't see them replacing a PC overall, but an alternative for folks looking to be more mobile with most of the same functions, including the obvious internet and e-mail access.


Two people told me yesterday that they had heard rumors about Apple's dissatisfaction with the March-April release dates and would like to move them up to July-August. If they do that this year, it might be the iPad3! Now, I know it's only rumors, but suppose they do that?

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Been reading some bad things about the Windows tablets. Step back and reconsider that, I would. I'm swaying back to the iPad side.


Yup. I've seen those too. The most common is the WIN7 shortcomings...since it really wasn't designed to support tablets - that's what WIN8 will be there for.

Clearly the "perfect tablet" doesn't yet exist, yet there are choices, and *all* have pros and cons.

I guess the criteria of how you will use it drives the list of candidates.

In my case, the ability to print content easily, have expandable storage, and good connectivity to other devices via USB are minimum requirements. If the iPad was more "open" in its connectivity and storage, I'd likely look more strongly to that option. It will become an issue more and more as downloaded video media is viewed on these tablet devices (huge files).

Compatibility to MS Office content would be a plus. Many sites refer to tablet devices as "Tablet PC's, and I guess I share that as a description of a target use for these units. I don't see them replacing a PC overall, but an alternative for folks looking to be more mobile with most of the same functions, including the obvious internet and e-mail access.


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> Now, I know it's only rumors, but suppose they do that?


He'll still hate Apple and find something to hate about it. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Two people told me yesterday that they had heard rumors about Apple's dissatisfaction with the March-April release dates and would like to move them up to July-August. If they do that this year, it might be the iPad3! Now, I know it's only rumors, but suppose they do that?


That's actually rumored in more than one place from what I've read.

Apple is not a dumb company...they might be stubborn, but not dumb. They will learn from the feedback on iPad and iPad 2, and likely come out with an iPad 3 that is even better than anything to date. They have a very good product that could be great with a few refinements.

That adds more reason to what you were saying earlier - the tablet offerings are still immature in a number of ways, and 6-12 months from now...we'll likely see another "generation" of offerings.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> It's funny how folks who never used a tablet know _exactly_ what's important.  I can say this, because I used to be one of those people! :lol:


One of the key traits that I've learned and obsessed on, especially recently ... is that I need to be "open" to new ideas and adaptable.

TiVo was great ... HR2x (for me) is now great ... but I don't trash TiVo, just moved on to something "better" ... and if something comes out better then that, well, I'll move on again.

Optimum Online was great ... FTTP (FiOS) is now great ... but I don't trash Cablevision (ah shucks, maybe I do ).

Blackberry was great ... I now believe that the iPhone is better (haven't upgraded yet) ... and they've sold 100 million devices, so when I migrate I'll be moving to very mature platform.

Really thought that I had little use for a Tablet ...

Then I got an iPad as a gift, and was very disappointed because it was VERY expensive gift, and felt so bad that I might return it. At the time, I thought that I might prefer the Playbook, being a Blackberry guy.

Well, long story short, I now tell the story all the time: the iPad is one of the best gifts that I've ever received, it again opened my eyes that you need to embrace new ideas.

I now use the iPad all-day every day, it's changed my day-to-day life. And it doesn't hurt that I'm using a platform that may sell 40 million (40 million!) units this year.

And the cloud stuff really is cool ...

I thought that I'd always be sync'ing files and carrying USB sticks, nope, that's the old way, love MobileMe and SugarSync, just love it.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> I was with you right up to here, Chris... Honeycomb is very slick and tablet-centric, IMHO. You should give it a try. It just needs some apps.
> 
> I agree about Win 7. Putting it on a tablet is a waste of time. If Microsoft gives the guys who did the new Bing iPad app (released yesterday) some input into Windows 8, they may get it right. Meanwhile, by the time it finally ships on a device, we'll be using iPad 4's under iOS 5, and mostly likely 2nd or 3d generation Honeycomb tablets as well.


Yeah, after I wrote that I realized it was a little harsh. I guess what I was trying to say was that it seems like tablet makers are trying to retrofit the old way of doing things. Not everything about Honeycomb is "backward". Definitely a slick OS.


----------



## Steve

The new Acer tablet is less than 3 weeks away, according to this report.

$449 MSRP for 16GB wi-fi. Size, weight and battery life may be the trade-off, according to the article.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> The new Acer tablet is less than 3 weeks away, according to this report.
> 
> $449 MSRP for 16GB wi-fi. Size, weight and battery life may be the trade-off, according to the article.


Thank you for that link Steve.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Regarding printing from an iPad...

I don't get the dire need to do it.

Yeah, it might be cool sometimes...

But I always felt part of the point of a portable tablet like an iPad was to be small and convenient.

Are you going to carry a printer with you? Or depend on someone else having a printer where you are going? How much do you really need to print from your iPad anyway?

Yeah, there are some drawing and writing programs... so you can kind of develop some stuff on an iPad that you might want to print... but honestly, if you find yourself needing to print a lot from an iPad, my argument would be that you needed a laptop/notebook instead.

I'm not an Apple defender by any stretch... but I do believe in applying reality to your expectations. Saying all the things that an iPad cannot do that are things it never was intended to do... that doesn't seem productive to me.

There are lots of things the iPad will not do... but most of them aren't things I would have expected it to do in the first place.


----------



## Steve

Stewart Vernon said:


> Regarding printing from an iPad...
> 
> I don't get the dire need to do it.


I think the point is since cloud-based document editing is available on the iPad, with apps like Google Docs, you can edit it for print-out, if you want to or need to.

What I don't get is the criticism of pulling it down electronically vs. USB (assuming the guest computer even allows you access to it's physical ports). Either way, you have to open a copy of the file on another computer to print it, so what difference does it make _how_ it gets there? :scratchin


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> I think the point is since cloud-based document editing is available on the iPad, with apps like Google Docs, you can edit it for print-out, if you want to or need to.
> 
> What I don't get is the criticism of pulling it down electronically vs. USB (assuming the guest computer even allows you access to it's physical ports). Either way, you have to open a copy of the file on another computer to print it, so what difference does it make _how_ it gets there? :scratchin


Today I downloaded dropbox and docstogo. They work together and that seems to work very well for my situation.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Today I downloaded dropbox and docstogo. They work together and that seems to work very well for my situation.


:up:

Problem solved! 

After seeing the slick Bing iPad app Microsoft just introduced, it wouldn't surprise me if Office Live will be made more than "read only" for the iPad. If not, they risk losing the iPad "cloud" users to Google and Mobile Me. Plus Mac Office users would probably like to see the same editing tools on their iPads.


----------



## Sixto

One of the key points is that there continues to be innovation, and new more modern ways to do things.

I've found it very interesting over the past few months to have the following RSS site in GoogleReader:http://www.macrumors.com/macrumors.xml​
Here's just another example of cool possibilities:Apple Exploring E-Ink/Video Hybrid Displays for iPhone?

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/08/apple-exploring-e-ink-video-hybrid-displays-for-iphone/​
Personally, I couldn't imagine going with one of these clone companies, as innovation is continuing to be pursued by those producing high volumes, with much profit for Research & Development.

Exciting times these days.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stewart Vernon said:


> Regarding printing from an iPad...
> 
> I don't get the dire need to do it.
> 
> Yeah, it might be cool sometimes...
> 
> But I always felt part of the point of a portable tablet like an iPad was to be small and convenient.
> 
> Are you going to carry a printer with you? Or depend on someone else having a printer where you are going? How much do you really need to print from your iPad anyway?
> 
> Yeah, there are some drawing and writing programs... so you can kind of develop some stuff on an iPad that you might want to print... but honestly, if you find yourself needing to print a lot from an iPad, my argument would be that you needed a laptop/notebook instead.
> 
> I'm not an Apple defender by any stretch... but I do believe in applying reality to your expectations. Saying all the things that an iPad cannot do that are things it never was intended to do... that doesn't seem productive to me.
> 
> There are lots of things the iPad will not do... but most of them aren't things I would have expected it to do in the first place.


I guess it really depends on what you are doing. My daughter prints her school work from her iPad to our printer all the time. Remember, on the iPad you can create, edit and print Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents so it works very well for her.

Sure, not everyone would use it, but it comes in handy when needed.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> [...] Here's just another example of cool possibilities:Apple Exploring E-Ink/Video Hybrid Displays for iPhone?
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/08/apple-exploring-e-ink-video-hybrid-displays-for-iphone/​


I love e-Ink displays, because not only do you measure battery life in weeks instead of hours, but they look better in bright sunlight, instead of worse. They're currently too slow for gaming, but great for e-books and fine for web browsing, IMO, based on the experimental browser in my Kindle.

There's even a Chinese company working on a color e-ink display, though it's a little pricey at the moment!


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's actually rumored in more than one place from what I've read.
> 
> Apple is not a dumb company...they might be stubborn, but not dumb. They will learn from the feedback on iPad and iPad 2, and likely come out with an iPad 3 that is even better than anything to date. They have a very good product that could be great with a few refinements.
> 
> That adds more reason to what you were saying earlier - the tablet offerings are still immature in a number of ways, and 6-12 months from now...we'll likely see another "generation" of offerings.


I almost pulled the trigger on one this morning, then thought about those rumors and decided to let this play out for a while longer.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> I guess it really depends on what you are doing. My daughter prints her school work from her iPad to our printer all the time. Remember, on the iPad you can create, edit and print Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents so it works very well for her.
> 
> Sure, *not everyone would use it, but it comes in handy when needed*.


Agreed - not an every day thing...but not having it is not good.

It seems we've spawned folks looking at some other ideas/solutions -a good thing.


rich584 said:


> I almost pulled the trigger on one this morning, then thought about those rumors and decided to let this play out for a while longer.


The more I read, the more I'm tempted to wait (at least until the fall).

Despite some folks seeming to (falsely) think I would not consider an iPad, I would do so once it has more open features than the iPad does today (memory expansion and industry standard connectible like USB embedded). If iPad 3 comes with those, then it is a solid contender to a broader market IMHO.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> The new Acer tablet is less than 3 weeks away, according to this report.
> 
> $449 MSRP for 16GB wi-fi. Size, weight and battery life may be the trade-off, according to the article.


I know several people who have bought Acer notebooks and they have nothing good to say about them. But, who knows what kind of a tablet they might put out?

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> << Snipped bits out >>
> 
> Despite some folks seeming to (falsely) think I would not consider an iPad, I would do so once it has more open features than the iPad does today (memory expansion and industry standard connectible like USB embedded). If iPad 3 comes with those, then it is a solid contender to a broader market IMHO.


USB is not industry standard for tablets. Apple sets the standards here! We won't be seeing USB nor removeable batteries nor serviceable memory on iPads real soon, if ever.

Do remember floppies! Did you spear Apple for removing them?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> USB is not industry standard for tablets. *Apple sets the standards here*! We won't be seeing USB nor removable batteries nor serviceable memory on iPads real soon, if ever.


Apple may have proprietary standards (iTunes, apple connector for two) that are *their* tablet standards, but not necessarily *industry* standards. Right now, they are the most common, but that appears to be changing in all Android-based and Windows-based units.

USB and SD card support is hardly revolutionary nor brand-unique, but Apple has unfortunately chosen not to support those so far. I'm hoping/suspecting that they will reconsider that in iPad3. Guess we'll see. :shrug:


----------



## Chris Blount

Laxguy said:


> USB is not industry standard for tablets. Apple sets the standards here! We won't be seeing USB nor removeable batteries nor serviceable memory on iPads real soon, if ever.
> 
> Do remember floppies! Did you spear Apple for removing them?


 Yeah. I haven't really missed having user serviceable parts in any of my "iStuff" (Macbook Pro, iPhones, iPads). My white Macbook had a user removeable battery but that only made the Macbook more bulky compared to the newer Macbooks and Macbook Pro's.

The battery life and memory requirements are slowly becoming a non-issue. Besides, 3rd party developers are creating external battery boosters if one really needs it.


----------



## Richierich

Laxguy said:


> We won't be seeing USB nor removeable batteries nor serviceable memory on iPads real soon, if ever.


Great, then I can Rule out IPAD forever in my Life as USB and Removeable Batteries are 2 very important items as Musthaves on my List along with the ability to add memory via Memory Stick.

Maybe the Toshiba Tablet if not the Xoom or whatever comes out by Fall.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I know several people who have bought Acer notebooks and they have nothing good to say about them. But, who knows what kind of a tablet they might put out?


Acer builds a very good product. Before IBM sold their Thinkpad business to Lenovo, our IBM rep told me Acer manufactured some of the TP models for them.


----------



## Mikemok1981

I never had any problems with my previous Acer laptop either. That thing was rock solid, my ex dropped it at least three times, and never had any issues. Ran like a top till the day I upgraded.


----------



## Steve

Laxguy said:


> USB is not industry standard for tablets. Apple sets the standards here! We won't be seeing USB nor removeable batteries nor serviceable memory on iPads real soon, if ever.


Ya. Apple does their homework. Based on feedback from the iPad first generation user-base, if they thought adding USB or expandable memory would sell more iPad2's, they would have _already_ added them.


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> Yeah. I haven't really missed having user serviceable parts in any of my "iStuff" (Macbook Pro, iPhones, iPads). My white Macbook had a user removeable battery but that only made the Macbook more bulky compared to the newer Macbooks and Macbook Pro's.
> 
> The battery life and memory requirements are slowly becoming a non-issue. Besides, 3rd party developers are creating external battery boosters if one really needs it.


I do think that having a user-replaceable battery is a good thing, not just for additional capacity (having two charged batteries) though. For instance when the battery in my wife's iPod would no longer hold a charge for more than an hour or two we had two options - send it in for repair or replace it. I chose option three and bought an after-market battery and took the iPod apart myself. I doubt I would attempt that with the touch models though. I think that as people replace devices more frequently for newer models and battery tech continues to improve this will become less and less of an issue. It didn't really stop me from buying an iPod Touch or the Xoom tablet but if either one has to be sent in or replaced because the battery goes wonky I'll not be too happy.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ya. Apple does their homework. Based on feedback from the iPad first generation user-base, if they thought adding USB or expandable memory would sell more iPad2's, they would have _already_ added them.


Agree that Apple does many things well. Marketing is certainly at the top of that list.

Since over 1/3 of the iPad2 buyers were iPad1 upgrade converts that already accepted the Apple "standards", I suspect their market research also has told them before they can expand to a broader market, they need to look at what the competition offers. They are smart as you said.

I anticipate iPad 3 will add some of the competitive features (not found in iPad2) that has been discussed here...


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I do think that having a user-replaceable battery is a good thing, not just for additional capacity (having two charged batteries) though. For instance when the battery in my wife's iPod would no longer hold a charge for more than an hour or two we had two options - send it in for repair or replace it. I chose option three and bought an after-market battery and took the iPod apart myself. I doubt I would attempt that with the touch models though. I think that as people replace devices more frequently for newer models and battery tech continues to improve this will become less and less of an issue. It didn't really stop me from buying an iPod Touch or the Xoom tablet but if either one has to be sent in or replaced because the battery goes wonky I'll not be too happy.


I think any battery powered device that you can't change the battery in is like that because the manufacturers know full well that most people wouldn't take the time or have the knowledge to replace their batteries. And that's because it is deliberately not easy to replace batteries in those devices. And that generates another cash flow to those manufacturers.

It's simple to replace batteries in laptops, why not in tablets? Batteries are always the weak link in devices, why do some manufacturers make changing them so difficult? Those folks that have posted about wanting to be able to easily replace batteries have a good point. Suppose you keep your iPad or Xoom for five years? How many charges are those batteries gonna take? I doubt that it's cheap to mail in one of those devices and get a new battery installed.

Rich


----------



## Steve

^ Also, after spending time with the Xoom, I see how weight and thickness can make a difference vs. the iPad2. I now understand why Apple elected to make the new model thinner and lighter, rather than keep it the same size as the old model and increase the battery life, or make the battery user replaceable.

What I don't get is why tiny devices, like my Zune HD and iPod touch had to be thinner than their already thin predecessors. I would have liked to see those stay the same size, and have longer-life batteries.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's an interesting tidbit...

http://www.stuff.tv/news/computers-and-consoles/rumour-mill/rumour-mill-%E2%80%93-apple-ipad-3-to-get-usb-30-and-thunderbolt


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's an interesting tidbit...
> 
> http://www.stuff.tv/news/computers-and-consoles/rumour-mill/rumour-mill-%E2%80%93-apple-ipad-3-to-get-usb-30-and-thunderbolt


Thought that was just the normal Apple connector (the new version) hooking to PC's with USB 3.0.

Today supports USB 2.0, tomorrow 3.0.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/05/apple-dock-connector-to-support-displayport-usb-3-0-thunderbolt/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Thought that was just the normal Apple connector (the new version) hooking to PC's with USB 3.0.
> 
> Today supports USB 2.0, tomorrow 3.0.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/05/apple-dock-connector-to-support-displayport-usb-3-0-thunderbolt/


That's why it's interesting (rumor).


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's why it's interesting (rumor).


Yep, lots of interesting stuff on the macrumors site daily. Find it fun to follow.

Thought you were referring to a USB connector on next iPad, which that's not.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Yep, lots of interesting stuff on the macrumors site daily. Find it fun to follow.
> 
> *Thought you were referring to a USB connector *on next iPad, which that's not.


Nope...just how they handle the rumored iPad3 connectivity.

Like you...following things.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's an interesting tidbit...
> 
> http://www.stuff.tv/news/computers-and-consoles/rumour-mill/rumour-mill-%E2%80%93-apple-ipad-3-to-get-usb-30-and-thunderbolt


That's really interesting. I guess there is something to the rumors I've been hearing, but have you heard or read anything about introduction dates being changed?

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That's really interesting. I guess there is something to the rumors I've been hearing, but have you heard or read anything about introduction dates being changed?


The rumored release date (and changes) is the #1 topic if you Google iPad3 rumor. What is contained (rumored to be contained) is a distant #2 topic.

I read that stuff, but put into perspective its 99% speculation...but it is interesting to read for entertainment if anything else.

What will be of equal interest to follow will be the launches of various other tablets during the remainder of 2011, to see how that does/doesn't impact the market as a whole.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree that Apple does many things well. Marketing is certainly at the top of that list.
> 
> Since over 1/3 of the iPad2 buyers were iPad1 upgrade converts that already accepted the Apple "standards", I suspect their market research also has told them before they can expand to a broader market, they need to look at what the competition offers. They are smart as you said.
> 
> I anticipate iPad 3 will add some of the competitive features (not found in iPad2) that has been discussed here...


O.K..... name a couple and an amount you'd be willing to wager..... And a time frame- say the next CES??


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> O.K..... name a couple and an amount you'd be willing to wager..... And a time frame- say the next CES??


Memory expansion (SD or other) and higher resolution screen (Android 3.0 tablets support 720p HD resolution) to name two.

When will iPad3 come out? That's the top speculation on the web...but no one (publically) knows for sure.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Chris Blount said:


> I don't think it so much restrictive but more about changing the paradigm. A USB stick has limitations in itself. If forget to bring it with you, what do you do? With cloud computing, you can access your files from anywhere.
> 
> Every since I transferred my files to MobileMe and Carbonite backup, my USB sticks have been sitting in a drawer doing nothing. Sooner than we think, there will be no longer be a need for internal memory on any tablet. Everything will be on "the cloud".
> 
> IMHO, Android and Windows are both backward thinking OS's.


Years back, I would carry my work from home TO work on a flash drive, but after I had a flash drive have an issue on me one week, I started carrying two flash drives figuring that if one had an issue, the other would be good. Now I carry two flash drives and use Dropbox... that way if the flash drives go bad (etc.) or the internet is down, I'm good. When you have deadlines, you NEED backups... 

While I would have liked an SD expansion slot for the iPAD, I couldn't care less about a USB connection. As you said, it's about changing the paradigm, and while there may be a few situations now where it might come in handy, I simply don't see any reason why it will be neccessary in a few years... and I don't personally believe it's one now.

As for your last statement, well, I'll comment on that in a minute...



tcusta00 said:


> I put my entire music library on my 32GB and it's still half empty. Can't wait for the ability to load my DVR content onto the iPad.


You have a MUCH smaller music library than me! 

That being said, I don't see any reason why I should need my entire library on there, so I'm cool with my 16gb model! 



Sixto said:


> One of the key traits that I've learned and obsessed on, especially recently ... is that I need to be "open" to new ideas and adaptable.


Always a good trait to pick up! 



Chris Blount said:


> Yeah, after I wrote that I realized it was a little harsh. I guess what I was trying to say was that it seems like tablet makers are trying to retrofit the old way of doing things. Not everything about Honeycomb is "backward". Definitely a slick OS.


I appreciate the clarification. We agree! 



Stewart Vernon said:


> Regarding printing from an iPad...
> 
> I don't get the dire need to do it.
> 
> Yeah, it might be cool sometimes...
> 
> But I always felt part of the point of a portable tablet like an iPad was to be small and convenient.
> 
> Are you going to carry a printer with you? Or depend on someone else having a printer where you are going? How much do you really need to print from your iPad anyway?
> 
> Yeah, there are some drawing and writing programs... so you can kind of develop some stuff on an iPad that you might want to print... but honestly, if you find yourself needing to print a lot from an iPad, my argument would be that you needed a laptop/notebook instead.
> 
> I'm not an Apple defender by any stretch... but I do believe in applying reality to your expectations. Saying all the things that an iPad cannot do that are things it never was intended to do... that doesn't seem productive to me.
> 
> There are lots of things the iPad will not do... but most of them aren't things I would have expected it to do in the first place.


Well said! 



Steve said:


> Acer builds a very good product. Before IBM sold their Thinkpad business to Lenovo, our IBM rep told me Acer manufactured some of the TP models for them.


Acer builds a good product, but I believe they also makes some clunkers. A couple of years back, my Mom's Acer laptop had all sorts of trouble, and my Acer desktop went kaput back in January after only 13 months or so. On the other hand, my co-worker's Acer (similar model to mine) is still working, and my aunt's work computer is (last time I checked) still going strong. My experience with Acer is that it's been the luck of the draw...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

*raott*,

I haven't read much of it yet, so I'm not sure how helpful it is, but I recommend (if you haven't already) downloading the iPad 2 Starter Guide book in iBooks.

Most of the iPad has been self-explanatory, but reading what little of the book I have has already taught me how to do something I wasn't aware of.

Though I continue to like the iPad more and more every day, there are a few things I don't like, some of which I know to be fact, others may simply be that I haven't learned how to yet, so I'm hoping that this book (which so far seems to be fairly thorough) might narrow some of those criticisms down.

~Alan


----------



## raott

Alan Gordon said:


> *raott*,
> 
> I haven't read much of it yet, so I'm not sure how helpful it is, but I recommend (if you haven't already) downloading the iPad 2 Starter Guide book in iBooks.
> 
> Most of the iPad has been self-explanatory, but reading what little of the book I have has already taught me how to do something I wasn't aware of.
> 
> Though I continue to like the iPad more and more every day, there are a few things I don't like, some of which I know to be fact, others may simply be that I haven't learned how to yet, so I'm hoping that this book (which so far seems to be fairly thorough) might narrow some of those criticisms down.
> 
> ~Alan


Thank you, I will check that out.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Memory expansion (SD or other) and higher resolution screen (Android 3.0 tablets support 720p HD resolution) to name two.
> 
> When will iPad3 come out? That's the top speculation on the web...but no one (publically) knows for sure.


I'm not betting against a retina grade screen, fo' sho'.
Nor spec-u-latin' on release date.

I'll bet against a USB slot, a removeable battery, and no user expansion on RAM. Pick any two, and if they come true, by CES you win. $100, even.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> I'm not betting against a retina grade screen, for' sho'.
> Nor spec-u-latin' on release date.
> 
> I'll bet against a USB slot, a removable battery, and no user expansion on RAM. Pick any two, and if they come true, by CES you win. $100, even.


From everything read to date...that's a tough one...as the USB rumors are already that Apple will come out with a proprietary "adapted" USB, not a conventional one like found in the Android and WIN tablets.

That would then require being 2-for-2, which is rough based on rumors alone. I doubt the removable battery myself.

I'll stand by the screen upgrade and potential memory expandability forecast.

We can always do a dualing tablet event at CES next January if you'd like...by then I'll likely at least have some brand/platform of tablet most likely.


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...by then I'll likely at least have some brand/platform of tablet most likely.


Been lots of hypothetical talk here ... thus curious about real world use ...

From an actual practical day-to-day perspective, what's missing from the iPad2 that would really keep you from purchasing?

USB: the iPad2 easily connects to any PC, so it appears that your concern is attaching another device to the iPad2. In your specific situation, what would you be connecting to the USB port of a tablet that's not supported on the iPad2?

Battery: I guess the concern is that the battery would fail? or do you think that you need more then 10 hours of battery life before you could access power?

Memory expansion: you need more then 64GB? Personally I've found 32GB to be plenty and I travel often with videos. Each 1 hour video is about 600MB, with 10 recordings only taking up 6GB (of the 32GB). You need more then 64GB?

Just figured that I'd post this, because I see all of these posts about waiting for features that I wonder if they'd really ever be used.

Really am curious if you'd actually use these missing features, and how you'd use them.

Thanks.


----------



## klang

I will be shocked if Apple adds USB to a future iPad. As many have stated in this thread, there just isn't any need and it would likely make it thicker.

The iPhone on the other hand might pick up a micro-USB port at some point to support the agreement to support a common charger.


----------



## raott

Sixto said:


> Been lots of hypothetical talk here ... thus curious about real world use ...
> 
> From an actual practical day-to-day perspective, what's missing from the iPad2 that would really keep you from purchasing?
> 
> Thanks.


A few things I can think of - I've had an Android phone for a year so I'll compare what is missing from ios - these did not stop me from purchasing but are still weaknesses IMO.

USB/Filesystem - dropbox is an OK workaround but the lack of a file system makes things not real intuitive. Took me several trial and error methods to figure out how to "sync" with my online dropbox. It isn't really a true sync rather than a save and replace.

Widgets - Android has widgets which I love. Much more intuitive and dependable than I've found notifications to be so far in my early use. For example, the twitter App on Ipad, I had to go download another app called boxcar to get notifications to work.

Flash - not a showstopper but IMO, still a silly limitation. At least give the option to turn it off or on.

With that said, with a day of playing with Honeycomb and now a day and half with the IPad2, I think I made the right choice in sticking with the Ipad 2. Much, much more polished at this point, although I think Honeycomb has alot of potential.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Been lots of hypothetical talk here ... thus curious about real world use ...
> 
> From an actual practical day-to-day perspective, what's missing from the iPad2 that would really keep you from purchasing?


At those prices...absolutely.

It's not a critical need...its an optional need....therefore getting it right the first time is more important.

Right now...the Androids are much closer to what I'd expect...and even they aren't there yet. We don't know what iPad3 will bring (yet).

I'll likely join the many others sitting the fence until we see a more mature table set of offerings late this year or beyond.


----------



## Sixto

raott said:


> A few things I can think of ...


Yep, thanks for posting your list, certainly interested in HDTV's list, trying to understand the real day-to-day use for what some consider deficiencies.

I've had the iPad for 6 months and can't remember a single occurrence of where I thought I'd like to attach a USB device, have more memory, or need another battery, thus trying to understand what I might not be considering.

The other major item is that whenever I want an App, it's always available on the iPad, example being the DirecTV App, and I couldn't imagine sitting around waiting months for the version on other platforms. It appears that developers are developing and optimizing for the iOS platform first, considering the huge install base. I've already spent months waiting for Forum Runner on Blackberry, and plan in the future to forever avoid this situation by moving to all iOS devices.

Seems like a file-system may be in iOS5.


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> At those prices...absolutely.
> 
> It's not a critical need...its an optional need....therefore getting it right the first time is more important.
> 
> Right now...the Androids are much closer to what I'd expect...and even they aren't there yet. We don't know what iPad3 will bring (yet).
> 
> I'll likely join the many others sitting the fence until we see a more mature table set of offerings late this year or beyond.


Hmmm.

I hear ya, but waiting for the perfect tablet may be like waiting for the perfect PC or perfect phone or perfect audio system ... there's always something better tomorrow.

To be honest, your continual posts really got me intrigued as to what you're specifically referring to , or better put, what am I missing or doing differently on a daily real-use basis, which led to the interest into the exact specifics of what's missing that you personally would actually use, possibly on a day-to-day basis that's missing.

And, as mentioned above, having the DirecTV App first developed for iOS, seemed to be enough indicator for me, that I'm on the right platform. It's just one example, but a good one. Sometimes it's not all about the techie-weeny stuff, and more about the solution or overall platform.

And waiting for iPad3, wow, the iPad2 isn't even fully ramped up yet. Yep, it might be sooner rather then later, but it may be a while. The only intriguing thing for me would be double resolution display, but again there's always something better on the next version of anything, and life is too short.


----------



## raott

Sixto said:


> The other major item is that whenever I want an App, it's always available on the iPad, example being the DirecTV App, and I couldn't imagine sitting around waiting months for the version on other platforms. It appears that developers are developing and optimizing for the iOS platform first, considering the huge install base


Which is a big reason I took the Xoom back. I want something that I can use now, rather than the potential when bugs are worked out and there are more Apps. The google app store had only 59 apps for Honeycomb. The apps that I use alot for myAndroid phone did not work well (some not at all) with the Xoom (ie Sirius and Pandora).


----------



## klang

If anyone is looking for battery backup solutions I've got a few from Hypershop that work well. I take a Micro along when traveling for my i*. They will power most anything that has a USB power cord.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> I hear ya, but waiting for the perfect tablet may be like waiting for the perfect PC or perfect phone or perfect audio system ... there's always something better tomorrow.


You are quite right with that...it comes down to when to "take the plunge".

Most reviews, experts, websites I've read seem to agree that we are still in the early stages of tablet "potential".

There are many nice things about the iPad series...the applications being one of the biggest upside. The latest version (2) size being another.

I suppose it comes down to what you intend to use it for, and what role it plays in the mobile device inventory someone has.

In my case....mobile connectivity is a big deal, as I do hope to someday see these as laptop travel replacements. May sites refer to these as "tablet PC's".

Memory expansion is also a big deal here, as retaining large HD-quality media files requires plenty of storage...and preventing expansion doesn't seem to be a wise strategy. In addition, 720p minimum screen resolution is a must have here. Flash support is also important.

That's why I suspect the Androids all have taken a different approach on these points from the established brand.

What is very appealing is seeing *all these devices *gain horsepower as they evolve. Having played with an iPad2 recently...I could immediately tell the speed gain over the original model. It's likely this is why 1/3 of iPad2 buyers migrated form the original model.

The new thinner form factor and speed are truly improvements. The screen is definitely nice for most applications, but still not HD caliber.

For all those reasons, I suspect we have only seen the beginnings on this device platform...and iPad3, Androids, and the others could take yet another leap forward.

I'm not looking for perfection so much as a tipping point to justify the ROI in spending the money - it's not there yet IMHO. It's also not that far away.

Working for a large technology company and regularly speaking with our tech experts...we have alot of folks with those same perspectives - call it "pent up demand", once things mature a bit further.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> Sometimes it's not all about the techie-weeny stuff, and more about the solution or overall platform.


Precisely. While some folks will continue to wait, millions have made iPads and iPad2's part of their daily routine. Analysts put last Christmas's sales _alone_ at 5-7 million units!

My only regret is not buying my wife the iPad1 sooner. I waited because there was no camera, so no FaceTime capability either. In retrospect, she could have productively used and enjoyed it for almost a year, and I could have sold it and recovered most of the purchase price to put towards the iPad2. I was definitely penny-wise and pound foolish on that one. :nono:


----------



## Laxguy

I read several folk saying that Flash is a requirement for their tablet device. 

Why?

Certainly, there is today some content that's available only by Flash, and in the recent past there've been zillions of stupid uses of Flash, such as plain jane videos embedded therein. 

However, just the DirecTV iPad app alone shows what can be done without that power hog. 

And, yes, one day it'll be trimmed to fit...


----------



## Steve

Laxguy said:


> I read several folk saying that Flash is a requirement for their tablet device.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Certainly, there is today some content that's available only by Flash, and in the recent past there've been zillions of stupid uses of Flash, such as plain jane videos embedded therein.
> 
> However, just the DirecTV iPad app alone shows what can be done without that power hog.
> 
> And, yes, one day it'll be trimmed to fit...


Ya. That was another reason I initially held off. Turns out with HTML5 gaining in popularity last year, that's almost a non-issue now. AFAIK, Adobe hasn't even come out with the Honeycomb Flash plug-in yet, and they are offering developers a Flash to HTML5 conversion tool, called "Wallaby".


----------



## Sixto

Laxguy said:


> I read several folk saying that Flash is a requirement for their tablet device.
> 
> Why? ...


I find myself rarely using Safari, with most everything that I need on a daily basis having an App. Trying to think of anything that needed flash within the past few months and nothing comes to mind.


----------



## raott

"Laxguy" said:


> I read several folk saying that Flash is a requirement for their tablet device.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Certainly, there is today some content that's available only by Flash, and in the recent past there've been zillions of stupid uses of Flash, such as plain jane videos embedded therein.
> 
> However, just the DirecTV iPad app alone shows what can be done without that power hog.
> 
> And, yes, one day it'll be trimmed to fit...


You answered our own question. There is still content that is flash only. Why limit? With honeycomb, If you don't want it don't install it. Id rather have the choice than have it decided for me.


----------



## Sixto

Wonder if non support is a good enticing factor to cause a developer to improve their product to be better on a mobile device. Thought the issue was power consumption.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> Wonder if non support is a good enticing factor to cause a developer to improve their product to be better on a mobile device. Thought the issue was power consumption.


In the case of Flash, I believe it was (a) Apple's insistence that it was proprietary and (b) not well suited for touchscreen use, since many legacy Flash apps assume a mouse and cursor are available.

I think Adobe is wise in making HTML 5 output an option via Wallaby, so as not to lose revenue from selling Flash developer tools. I also wouldn't be surprised if they re-christen Flash with a new name, but offer different "save as" options.


----------



## Sixto

"Steve" said:


> In the case of Flash, I believe it was (a) Apple's insistence that it was proprietary and (b) not well suited for touchscreen use, since many legacy Flash apps assume a mouse and cursor are available.
> 
> I think Adobe is wise in making HTML 5 output an option via Wallaby, so as not to lose revenue from selling Flash developer tools. I also wouldn't be surprised if they re-christen Flash with a new name, but offer different "save as" options.


yep, good point, that reminds me of the article a few months ago from an expert with the details of the mouse/cursor issues, and benefits of other options.


----------



## Laxguy

Sixto said:


> Wonder if non support is a good enticing factor to cause a developer to improve their product to be better on a mobile device. Thought the issue was power consumption.


+1 on both. Plus to keep the content providers from dumping everything into a Flash container in the absence of any reason whatsoever.


----------



## Laxguy

Steve said:


> In the case of Flash, I believe it was (a) Apple's insistence that it was proprietary and (b) not well suited for touchscreen use, since many legacy Flash apps assume a mouse and cursor are available.
> 
> I think Adobe is wise in making HTML 5 output an option via Wallaby, so as not to lose revenue from selling Flash developer tools. I also wouldn't be surprised if they re-christen Flash with a new name, but offer different "save as" options.


Good points. The power consumption issue, though, is the one that sticks out for me. It was annoying to have a half dozen Flash-based embedded ads chewing up processor cycles even when plugged in to AC. Worse when it was sucking battery cycles.


----------



## Chris Blount

Sixto said:


> Been lots of hypothetical talk here ... thus curious about real world use ...
> 
> From an actual practical day-to-day perspective, what's missing from the iPad2 that would really keep you from purchasing?
> 
> USB: the iPad2 easily connects to any PC, so it appears that your concern is attaching another device to the iPad2. In your specific situation, what would you be connecting to the USB port of a tablet that's not supported on the iPad2?
> 
> Battery: I guess the concern is that the battery would fail? or do you think that you need more then 10 hours of battery life before you could access power?
> 
> Memory expansion: you need more then 64GB? Personally I've found 32GB to be plenty and I travel often with videos. Each 1 hour video is about 600MB, with 10 recordings only taking up 6GB (of the 32GB). You need more then 64GB?
> 
> Just figured that I'd post this, because I see all of these posts about waiting for features that I wonder if they'd really ever be used.
> 
> Really am curious if you'd actually use these missing features, and how you'd use them.
> 
> Thanks.


Good post with common sense.

Let me see if I can break this down from my own personal perspective.

Lack of USB: Haven't missed it. The only reason I would use USB is to transfer music and videos to the iPad which I do thru iTunes anyway. As far as files like Word, Excel or Powerpoint docs, I use my MobileMe cloud or simply e-mail the docs to the iPad.

Memory expansion: I've had the 64GB version of the iPad for the past year. Never filled it up. I have over 5000 pictures loaded with tons of music and a few movies and it still isn't even half full.

The battery life is also a non-issue as it will last me the entire day even when surfing heavily on 3G. If I want more battery life, I simply get a battery booster easily available from 3rd parties.

The lack of Flash is also a non issue. There is a browser app called iSwifter that handles Flash sites. Just yesterday I was watching an Amazon Instant Video on the iPad. Handled everything fine.

So you see, for every shortcoming listed about the iPad as compared to other tablets, its easy to argue the other way. Thanks to 3rd party developers both in software and hardware, that shortcoming list is getting very small.

BTW, there is a file system on the iPad. You just have to know where to look and which apps utilize the file system. For instance, Apple has a SD card adapter where you can plug in the card and transfer pictures from the card to the iPad. Goodreader is also an app that utilizes the file system by allowing documents to be loaded up and viewed.

Now you just have to ask yourself, what will you use a tablet for? For me, there I things I DON'T want because if they are added, it will only increase the size and weight of the tablet. If I want to do serious computing, I use my desktop or laptop. For everyday surfing, listening to music or watching video, the tablet is perfect. Some just don't seem to understand the concept that the tablet (at least for now) is a tool that's not meant to replace anything.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> [...] Thought the issue was power consumption.





Laxguy said:


> Good points. The power consumption issue, though, is the one that sticks out for me [...]


Found this on the Apple site, and you guys are right. Power consumption is _definitely_ one of the 6 reasons Apple gave for not supporting Flash, along with the two issues I mentioned.

Looks like they put a lot of thought into the decision not to support Flash.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> The lack of Flash is also a non issue. There is a browser app called iSwifter that handles Flash sites. Just yesterday I was watching an Amazon Instant Video on the iPad. Handled everything fine.
> 
> ............Goodreader is also an app that utilizes the file system by allowing documents to be loaded up and viewed.


Good info Chris, I will check those both out.


----------



## Sixto

"Steve" said:


> Found this on the Apple site, and you guys are right. Power consumption is definitely one of the 6 reasons Apple gave for not supporting Flash, along with the two issues I mentioned.
> 
> Looks like they put a lot of thought into the decision not to support Flash.


hey steve, thanks for the link, great article.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Sixto said:


> Memory expansion: you need more then 64GB? Personally I've found 32GB to be plenty and I travel often with videos. Each 1 hour video is about 600MB, with 10 recordings only taking up 6GB (of the 32GB). You need more then 64GB?


My 16gb is filled up, and I could fill a 64gb very fast... however, with the ability to transfer media back and forth, it's honestly not that big of a deal...



Sixto said:


> I hear ya, but waiting for the perfect tablet may be like waiting for the perfect PC or perfect phone or perfect audio system ... there's always something better tomorrow.


You made similar comments to me several months ago, and while I'm still glad that I waited on the iPad 2, I'm so glad I didn't wait for whatever better comes along on the iPad 3... 



Laxguy said:


> I read several folk saying that Flash is a requirement for their tablet device.
> 
> Why?





Sixto said:


> I find myself rarely using Safari, with most everything that I need on a daily basis having an App. Trying to think of anything that needed flash within the past few months and nothing comes to mind.


Waiting on a Froyo update for my phone made me realize early on that the lack of Flash really doesn't bother me. I think there are like two sites that I regularly go to that uses Flash, and only one of them even remotely bothers me, and I suspect it's only a matter of time before they make it "iPad friendly."



Chris Blount said:


> The lack of Flash is also a non issue. There is a browser app called iSwifter that handles Flash sites. Just yesterday I was watching an Amazon Instant Video on the iPad. Handled everything fine.


I may have to try that one out Chris... thanks! 

~Alan


----------



## Steve

Noticed in this thread a few of you guys store large music libraries on the iPad. Why there, instead of an iPod, iPhone or Droid phone, which I assume you all have as well? Not being critical... just wondering if I'm missing an opportunity I'm not thinking of. TIA.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Since this is a thread about the iPad, I do have a question that I'm afraid I won't like the answer to...

I have a couple of E-mail accounts set up on my iPad, but my main E-mail address (the one I have with my ISP) is my main one, and I'd LOVE to be able to E-mail back and forth via the iPad without using their website, but I'd really like to keep my E-mail on Windows Live Mail as well for backup purposes. Is there anyway to setup the mail app with a POP3 E-mail account where it leaves the E-mail on the server?

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> Noticed in this thread a few of you guys store large music libraries on the iPad. Why there, instead of an iPod, iPhone or Droid phone, which I assume you all have as well? Not being critical... just wondering if I'm missing an opportunity I'm not thinking of. TIA.


I don't have an iPod (never could justify the cost considering my listening habits), but I do have a Droid phone, and I have some music there as well... though I admittedly think the iPad has a better sound than my Android phone, my phone is always with me, and my iPad stays at home, so I will most likely listen to my phone more than my iPad. 

While I don't have a large music library on my iPad, as I don't really need to due to the reason I mentioned above, and because since my iPad stays at home, if I want to listen to music, there's always Home Sharing... which works great (aside from the fact that I prefer the layout for music stored locally on the iPad compared to the layout for when using Home Sharing).

As for why I have a deal of music on my iPad, well, I purchased some "American Idol" songs there recently because... well, it was just so easy to do so, as well as for the same reason I have some movies and TV shows on there (free from iTunes, digital copies, etc), and that's that I wanted to try everything out on my iPad. See how it works, what I like, what I don't, make sure everything works good, etc...

~Alan


----------



## davring

I use Widows Live Mail with my desktop, laptop and my iPhone and there is a setting, at least with AT&T anyway, where I can specify the number of days they will keep my mail on the server.


----------



## klang

Alan Gordon said:


> Since this is a thread about the iPad, I do have a question that I'm afraid I won't like the answer to...
> 
> I have a couple of E-mail accounts set up on my iPad, but my main E-mail address (the one I have with my ISP) is my main one, and I'd LOVE to be able to E-mail back and forth via the iPad without using their website, but I'd really like to keep my E-mail on Windows Live Mail as well for backup purposes. Is there anyway to setup the mail app with a POP3 E-mail account where it leaves the E-mail on the server?
> 
> ~Alan


I believe what you are looking for is under advanced options for the email account--> Delete from server --> Never


----------



## Laxguy

Alan Gordon said:


> Since this is a thread about the iPad, I do have a question that I'm afraid I won't like the answer to...
> 
> I have a couple of E-mail accounts set up on my iPad, but my main E-mail address (the one I have with my ISP) is my main one, and I'd LOVE to be able to E-mail back and forth via the iPad without using their website, but I'd really like to keep my E-mail on Windows Live Mail as well for backup purposes. Is there anyway to setup the mail app with a POP3 E-mail account where it leaves the E-mail on the server?
> 
> ~Alan


*Why, sointently! You just said the magic woid and won a hunnerd dollahs....
* </Groucho>

My Comcast account is POP and that's the way it was set up on the iPhone and iPad till I realized I hated deleting things three times, and my Comcast account was my main non-critical account (receiving its share of semi-spam). So with that, I set up a G-mail account via IMAP, and have my Comcast e-mail forwarded to the gmail account, also retaining the stuff on Comcast instead of deleting it from the server. (Until I delete it locally). 
Couple of ways to go there!


----------



## Alan Gordon

davring said:


> I use Widows Live Mail with my desktop, laptop and my iPhone and there is a setting, at least with AT&T anyway, where I can specify the number of days they will keep my mail on the server.





klang said:


> I believe what you are looking for is under advanced options for the email account--> Delete from server --> Never


I see an option on Windows Live Mail (hey davring... is Widows Live Mail some sort of dating site?  ) to keep on the server for up to 100 days (don't see an option for never), but I want to know about the iPad, and I don't see that option anywhere in the settings. 

~Alan


----------



## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> [...] my phone is always with me, and my iPad stays at home, so I will most likely listen to my phone more than my iPad.


Agree. I would think the tablet form factor is not very convenient to fire-up and use with headphones for general music listening. That's why I'm curious about why you might store a lot on there. I thought might be a way, similar to the promise of Airplay, where folks might be streaming music from the iPad's to their home audio receivers I didn't know about.


----------



## Laxguy

Alan Gordon said:


> I see an option on Windows Live Mail (hey davring... is Widows Live Mail some sort of dating site?  ) to keep on the server for up to 100 days (don't see an option for never), but I want to know about the iPad, and I don't see that option anywhere in the settings.
> 
> ~Alan


When you go to set up, choose POP account. It may be that mail is left on the server by default- I tried to set up a hypothetical account to test, but it wanted to connect to a real server.

I myself prefer IMAP, so you can delete in one place and not see it on your other devices. But you can have both!

Good luck!


----------



## davring

Alan Gordon said:


> I see an option on Windows Live Mail (hey davring... is Widows Live Mail some sort of dating site?  ) to keep on the server for up to 100 days (don't see an option for never), but I want to know about the iPad, and I don't see that option anywhere in the settings.
> 
> ~Alan


The option is on their server not the device itself.


----------



## klang

Alan Gordon said:


> I see an option on Windows Live Mail (hey davring... is Widows Live Mail some sort of dating site?  ) to keep on the server for up to 100 days (don't see an option for never), but I want to know about the iPad, and I don't see that option anywhere in the settings.
> 
> ~Alan


Just added my comcast POP3 account to my new iPad.

Mail, contacts, Calanders ---> Select the Comcast Account ---> Advanced -->Delete From Server ---> Never


----------



## Alan Gordon

davring, klang, and Laxguy, 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I now have my E-mail set up exactly like I want it. 

~Alan


----------



## Sixto

Interesting new market data ...

iPad 2 Demand Outstrips Original iPad by 40%, Verizon Preferred Over AT&T for 3G:http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/12...d-by-40-verizon-preferred-over-atandt-for-3g/​


----------



## bill-e

Update: Jul 31 2011

I picked up the new Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tab from Staples with the $100 off coupon and I really like it. A little pricey for only 16 gig but it's thinner and lighter than the Ipad2 and I'm even considering it as a replacement for my travel netbook.

Verizon is allowing pre-orders on their 4g version for $500something which isn't too bad but the monthly charges for data are a killer if you are already paying for your phone.

So far there aren't any legal apps that work tethering it to my Incredible 2 so I'm probably going to pay Verizon to tether it but but the Droid X series of phones works well with it with their built in tethering.


----------



## TBlazer07

bill-e said:


> Update: Jul 31 2011
> 
> I picked up the new Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tab from Staples with the $100 off coupon and I really like it. A little pricey for only 16 gig but it's thinner and lighter than the Ipad2 and I'm even considering it as a replacement for my travel netbook.
> 
> Verizon is allowing pre-orders on their 4g version for $500something which isn't too bad but the monthly charges for data are a killer if you are already paying for your phone.
> 
> So far there aren't any legal apps that work tethering it to my Incredible 2 so I'm probably going to pay Verizon to tether it but but the Droid X series of phones works well with it with their built in tethering.


You don't need an app, illegal or otherwise. Just root and tether. Used my GT 10.1 from NJ to VA this weekend tethered to my (AT&T) Infuse with a couple of 2.1amp lighter socket USB chargers and a charger adapter (else the GT won't charge even if plugged in due to it's "proprietary" USB charger). Navigon is neat on the GT.


----------

