# 921 release date?



## ocnier

Has anyone heard anymore news about another possible delay in the 921 release date of November 15th. E* is notorious for late product release (in fact bloody awful). That day is now only 2 weeks away and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.


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## Jerry G

I have bad news for you. Nov 15 is three weeks away, not two. And there is no gurarrentee that it will be released on that day. The tech chat said "by the holidays". You can guess which holiday that is because no one knows.


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## Jason

I e-mailed someone from the executive office at Echostar and they told me that there is currently "no release date" for the 921 or the Superdish!

That virtually guarantees that we will not be seeing either in November at all.
My prediction is 12/15 at the earliest.


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## ocnier

Thanks for the input guys, that's kinda what I figured. I just wondered if anybody else out there had the same gut feeling.


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## JustMe

I was told by my dealer friend that it was push back to end of november because of software problems i told him thats old news that they have software problems.


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## SlicerMDM

That's sad that E* is _STILL_ having software issues with a product they've been working on for so long. Same with the 721, all that time to fix bugs and the latest patch has bugs.

I was eager to get the 921/Superdish when it first came out but with all the issues E* has with buggy software, I'm now waiting to see what D* throws at us early next year. I'm not gonna pay that kind of money to be a beta tester.


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## Guest

The saddest part is that we were having this SAME conversation last year. Whose to say we won't be having it next year as well? Oh well, by the time they come out with it at least we'll have some competitors to choose among (God willing).


Richard


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## SlicerMDM

Rage (Machine) said:


> The saddest part is that we were having this SAME conversation last year. Whose to say we won't be having it next year as well? Oh well, by the time they come out with it at least we'll have some competitors to choose among (God willing).
> 
> Richard


This has REALLY been a long time... ... Some posts from "about a year ago":

----

*December 2002*

_The 921 was first announced around 18 months ago. At the time it was announced, it was cutting edge. A year and a half later it's still not on the market, has no solid release date, and is already outdated. But, if they take the time to update the design and incorporate the latest technology, it will put them even further behind.

E* seriously needs to do something about it's R&D; the time it's taking them to get new products released is getting ridiculous. And what makes it even worse is that when they do get products to market they half half the original feature set and take a year or more of bug fixes and software updates to become stable. The need to get better engineers or get some outside help_
......

*November 2002*
_Its the latest device E is working on to frustrate subs. It will have lots of bugs and although a nice product drive subs nuts and cost the company a fortune in tech support and general grief.

Perpetual the next software will fix whatever todays problem is, only to generate new issues....

I am not joking, unfortunately it appears E is unable to put out a rock solid PVR.

Sorry my 721 issues are getting the best of me....._

.....

*November 2002*

_The TU921 will be manufactured by JVC. Look for the JVC TU9000 to be just a little different than the 921. Available 1st quarter (cross your fingers)._

.....

*September 2002*

_I did not see the last Charlie chat but the 921 was mentioned as having a delivery date of middle of next year._
.....

*August 2002*

_Last light on the tech chat they were talking about the new JVC TU PVR-9000. It's a HDTV PVR device with two tuners. Is this the same thing as the 921 I've been hearing about? If not what's the difference? Which one is scheduled to be released first?_

======================================================

*Yep, this has really been in development a long time ... and it's STILL not ready.*


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## alv

As the time between the 921 release and the HD Tivo release narrows, my odds of switching to DTV goes up


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## Jerry G

alv said:


> As the time between the 921 release and the HD Tivo release narrows, my odds of switching to DTV goes up


Yup. I've seriously begun to think about this option. I've waited so long for the 921, which now clearly won't be out until after the new year starts, why not just wait another three or four months and then switch to DirecTV and get the HD Tivo? Dish didn't even announce new HD channels on 105, but it wouldn't matter anyway, as HD enthusiasts can't get the Superdish.

I've really lost my enthusiasm and confidence in Dish. Charlie didn't even have the courtesy and decency to mention any HD in the chat. The lease he could have done was acknowledge the delays and apologize for them.


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## SLONGO

Jerry G said:


> Yup. I've seriously begun to think about this option. I've waited so long for the 921, which now clearly won't be out until after the new year starts, why not just wait another three or four months and then switch to DirecTV and get the HD Tivo? Dish didn't even announce new HD channels on 105, but it wouldn't matter anyway, as HD enthusiasts can't get the Superdish.
> 
> I've really lost my enthusiasm and confidence in Dish. Charlie didn't even have the courtesy and decency to mention any HD in the chat. The lease he could have done was acknowledge the delays and apologize for them.


I don't think it's wise to "mention" programming that isn't ready to launch.
Maybe after the Superdish is rolled out to new locals and carriage agreements have been signed.
He did "mention" the 921 several times and stated that it would be sold sometime between Dec.1 and Dec. 31.


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## greylar

I think jerry is right. Dish has set dozens if not hundreds of dealines that have been broken. I don't think that there is any reason to believe that the 921 will be out by the end of the year just because they say it will. Of course stanger things have happened.

G


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## Jerry G

SLONGO said:


> I don't think it's wise to "mention" programming that isn't ready to launch.
> Maybe after the Superdish is rolled out to new locals and carriage agreements have been signed.
> He did "mention" the 921 several times and stated that it would be sold sometime between Dec.1 and Dec. 31.


Charlie only mentioned the 921 in response to a question.

The last tech chat said the 921 would be out in late November. Dish already gave a date. If it slipped, Charlie should have had the courtesy to comment on it on his own initiative instead of waiting for a call in or email question.

New HD channels were mentioned a while back to start on Dec 1. They obviously won't. Charlie should have addressed this.

Dish's HD plans (equipment and programming) seem in complete disarray. It's Charlie who decided to conduct chats. I think Dish should abandon the chats and keep silent until products and programming are ready, just as DirecTV does. But since Charlie wants the chat, he should have some continuity and comment on those items he's previously mentioned that are no longer true.

I used to enjoy the chats. Now when I see Charlie speak and mis-speak, I get kind of nauseated. And that cute little slip of the price increase of the 811 from $399 to $499 really makes me ill.


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## SLONGO

Jerry G said:


> Charlie only mentioned the 921 in response to a question.
> 
> The last tech chat said the 921 would be out in late November. Dish already gave a date. If it slipped, Charlie should have had the courtesy to comment on it on his own initiative instead of waiting for a call in or email question.
> 
> .


Nope. They said "the holiday season". This gave him some wiggle room.
He admits that his engineers can't be pinned down to a precise date.
December is still considered part of the holiday season, isn't it ?


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## Jerry G

SLONGO said:


> Nope. They said "the holiday season". This gave him some wiggle room.
> He admits that his engineers can't be pinned down to a precise date.
> December is still considered part of the holiday season, isn't it ?


The slide said the holiday season. Then the tech guys said mid to end of November. That was the last date comment made on that chat and that's what Charlie should have addressed.


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## SLONGO

Jerry G said:


> The slide said the holiday season. Then the tech guys said mid to end of November. That was the last date comment made on that chat and that's what Charlie should have addressed.


OK, but these were the guys he said couldn't be nailed down.
So he did sort of address the slippage (if there was one).
I'm sure everyone there is just as anxious as you to see a release but really wouldn't you rather have it stable ?
Cable doesn't have an HD PVR yet and niether does D*, so where 'ya gonna go?
Did you really expect some discussion of software code or a daily status or what?
He did the best he could with a Dec. 1-30 timeframe.
Tune in to the next chat Dec. 8 at your own peril !


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## rtt2

NEW YORK, Nov 11 (Reuters) - EchoStar Communications Corp. (DISH) shares fell to a five-month low on Tuesday, a day after the No. 2 satellite broadcaster posted slower-than- expected subscriber growth at its Dish Network service.

The company, facing pressure from new services at cable companies and from archrival DirecTV, *said delays in deliveries of high definition television products would mean it misses out on the holiday season boost in consumer spending.

"We clearly missed all of September and I think for the most part we're going to miss the holiday season," said Chief Executive Charlie Ergen, who blamed himself for the short fall during an analysts on a telephone conference.

"Even if you get the product out in the next three weeks ... you get a little bit of it, but I don't think we're going to get too much bang there," Ergen said, adding that EchoStar was distracted by its failed efforts last month to buy bankrupt satellite maker and operator Loral Space & Communications Ltd. (LRLSQ)* .......


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## mleighb

If I hear one more time that the 921 will be addressed on the "next" CHARLIE CHAT!!!!!! AGGGGH. I've heard that for 6 chats now! 

My HD tv is now a year old and I would so like watch the news where people on the screen don't have tiny heads and broad shoulders (since it's not a true HD signal) 

sigh,Mleigh


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## srrobinson2

A dealer sent me this update via e-mail:

The following information is based on a DISH Network Dealer Chat aired at Noon Eastern on November 12, 2003.

Officially, the 921 and 811 are due out @ December 1st. As always, this date is subject to change!

Currently, DISH will only allow Superdish installs in areas requiring the Superdish for local programming.

There are some problems with the Superdish.
It will not receive the 105 signal in Florida, Maine, Minnesota, Michigan, North and South Dakota, Montana and parts of Northern California, Washington and Oregon.
Idaho works fine! (??)
This may delay locals in these areas for up to 1 year!
DISH had already planned on putting another satellite in the 105 location late next year, but it appears DISH may not require a Superdish with the 921/811 in some or all states. We could possibly mail you one after all.
They weren't clear about what they are going to do about this situation. This is changing the rules! DISH has not provided official changes to the rules .
You will need the 2 satellite antenna setup including 61.5 or 148 and 2 RG-6 coax cables to the 921 location, 1 RG-6 coax cable to the 811 location.

There will be an international promo on the Superdish @ mid December. You will have to commit to at least $9.99 of international programming and credit card auto pay.

The HDTV Package/Superdish promotion is not yet available. 

The local Superdish promotion is in effect in markets that require it.

Oh, you now have to give DISH your Social Security Number for all activations and promotions or there is a fee.

Telephone lines must be connected to the receivers for all new activations.

The 522 is on it's way, but only available to Digital Home Plan Customers.


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## Nick

_"...you now have to give DISH your Social Security Number for all activations and promotions or there is a fee."_

*You have the right not to give your SSN. If you refuse to provide your SSN to DishNetwork (company), the company has the right to refuse service. *


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## greylar

srrobinson2 said:


> There are some problems with the Superdish.
> It will not receive the 105 signal in Florida, Maine, Minnesota, Michigan, North and South Dakota, Montana and parts of Northern California, Washington and Oregon.


Would someone explain why Northern Idaho and North Western Montana can use the SuperDish but northern California and South Dakota Can't? Here is a link that shows the footprint.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/v...start=25&sid=537f747b4d4bcee5ac7d6a169e300b66

BTW I live in NW Montana and I ordered the Missoula locals this morning. Install date 12/1

G


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## retiredTech

Nick "...you now have to give DISH your Social Security Number for all activations and promotions or there is a fee." [/QUOTE said:


> Well, it was bound to happen. DirecTV has been REQUIRING your
> 
> SSN for years now. Also if you GIVE someone your DirecTV
> 
> receiver, you'll HAVE to SEND in the access card for a NEW card and
> 
> they CHARGE you for it. (you get a refund if the card is not hacked,
> 
> BUT you are still out the shipping charge)


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## tm22721

'I think Dish should abandon the chats'

I agree, but Charlie is a marketeer not engineer and he can't avoid the temptation to hype a customer especially tech groupies like us. But sometimes marketing goes out too far in advance and is forced to pull back. The 921 is a sterling example of how not to introduce a product.


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## SpenceJT

Someone has discovered that Dish Network has all of the soon to be released hardware (921, 811) coded into their HD equipment page but "commented out" so they do not appear until the lines are activated. The forum in question is;

Scott's place (you all know the address by now )

This gives more credence to the belief that the hardware is soon to be released!

Regards,
Spence


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## Mark Lamutt

SpenceJT, thanks for the post, but your link doesn't point to a thread at Scott's place talking about the issue. It points at his dish store, so I'm going to edit it out of your post. Please feel free to post a link to the proper discussion over there if you want to.


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## SpenceJT

Mark Lamutt said:


> SpenceJT, thanks for the post, but your link doesn't point to a thread at Scott's place talking about the issue. It points at his dish store, so I'm going to edit it out of your post. Please feel free to post a link to the proper discussion over there if you want to.


There was a misunderstanding in that I spoke of one thing and posted a link to the end result and not the article itself.

The reason it points back to his Dish Store is because it is where he has created the page using Dish Networks HTML code and the entries for the new hardware have been removed to provide a preview of what Dish's HD hardware page will look like. The actual link to the article/thread may be found at;

http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2901

It includes my earlier link (as well as a second link to someone else's site) to his page with Dish Network's disabled HTML code enabled.

Either way, it looks like the pieces are getting put into place for the hardware roll-out! 

Sorry for the confusion
Spence


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## Mark Lamutt

No problem.


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## dishrich

retiredTech said:


> DirecTV has been REQUIRING your SSN for years now.


WRONG - I just activated a new D* customer 2 weeks ago & did NOT give them an SSN. I was prepared with a credit card instead, but they said they didn't even need that. They just turned them on, no SSN OR CC.


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## David_A

SpenceJT said:


> There was a misunderstanding in that I spoke of one thing and posted a link to the end result and not the article itself.
> 
> The reason it points back to his Dish Store is because it is where he has created the page using Dish Networks HTML code and the entries for the new hardware have been removed to provide a preview of what Dish's HD hardware page will look like. The actual link to the article/thread may be found at;
> 
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2901
> 
> It includes my earlier link (as well as a second link to someone else's site) to his page with Dish Network's disabled HTML code enabled.
> 
> Either way, it looks like the pieces are getting put into place for the hardware roll-out!
> 
> Sorry for the confusion
> Spence


 Wow. That is a great link. I just downloaded the brochure for the 921. It looks really big. Almost kind of bulky. But the part I loved was that is said it has 2 firewire outputs. I can't wait to see how that looks on my TV! I might actually get to use my NetCommand feature for something!


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## SpenceJT

David_A said:


> Wow. That is a great link. I just downloaded the brochure for the 921. It looks really big. Almost kind of bulky. But the part I loved was that is said it has 2 firewire outputs. I can't wait to see how that looks on my TV! I might actually get to use my NetCommand feature for something!


Don't get too excited about the "DishWire" (firewire) ports. They won't be enabled at the time the 921 ships.

Other than a digital camcorder, I don't have any A/V related firewire enabled appliances (I was an early adopter of an HDTV). I'm planning to upgrade to an HD D-VHS VCR at some point in the future and I've heard that Onkyo is working on a firewire upgrade to their popular TX-DS989 receiver! If Mitsubishi ever drops the price on their "promise module", I'll upgrade that as well.

Given enough time and money (and the approval of my wife) I'll soon join the ranks of the firewire enabled!


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## Bob Haller

David_A said:


> Wow. That is a great link. I just downloaded the brochure for the 921. It looks really big. Almost kind of bulky. But the part I loved was that is said it has 2 firewire outputs. I can't wait to see how that looks on my TV! I might actually get to use my NetCommand feature for something!


They alrady annouced it will not be enabled on roll out. Hey doesnt that sound familiar Reminds me of revious boxes like the 721 internet access, 500 series ports etc.

Buy for what the box has TODAY not promised coming features!


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## David_A

Then why didn't they say "for future use" like they did on the USB part of it? That is really misleading if you just read the brochure.


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## scot

I think the real question now is.. Which will be first? HD Tivo or 921? 
(in quantity)


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## BrettStah

The real question is... Which one will be better?


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## scot

That one is easy, it depends. If you really like the programming/interface of the dish stuff, the 921 will be better. The Tivo has more features to allow automated viewing which IMO makes for a better experience than dish, and to date there have been no comparable features even hinted abount with the 921.

In the end, it all has to work right, and if it does, and the current specs are right, the hdtivo wins on feature set, hands down. If the specs change and the 921 adds on a whole bunch of working features, then it will win.

Dish has a bit of an edge in terms of programming and space NOW though, so that is a big part of the bargain. Eventually if DTV gets the other sats working right, the margin will be gone and they could offer more channels. 

Who knows, maybe Voom will blow us all away with a 99 dollar offer in feb for the new motorola stb that with a recorder in it that CRUSHES the competition. (Though somehow I doubt it.)

Scot


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## Matt Stevens

After having a conversation this afternoon with the higher up I know at E*, I am confident some people will have the 921 before X-Mas. I am also confident it will be a buggy unit at first. It's "buggy as hell" right now.

Yippee!!  But it is getting less buggy with each software change, so there is hope.


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## scot

Matt: Could you have another conversation with them to tell everyone that they need to make a list of the promised software enhancements, and when they will be out by? (hard drop dead dates, not targets)


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## Matt Stevens

I'll be talking to him Thursday so he can look up my 6000 install to confirm it. If he isn't too busy, I'll broach the subject.


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