# Will I get my HD locals with a guide? thus can I set them to tape?



## jpfoxey (Jun 10, 2005)

I spoke with the Dish guys and while they were still selling the 921 and asked this directly to the higher level of support and even though everyone below them said no this guy said simply plug in your antenna to the 921 you will then be able to see your HD channels through your DVR and because they are broadcast digitally a programming Guido will appear for them. Is that true??? If it is great, if not it makes Digital Cable a lot more appealing(which is hard to do)? Help??


----------



## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Short answer, NO. The 921 requires a subscription to Dish Network locals to give you guide data, and even then who knows if every channel will have guide data (my 811 only shows guide data on a couple of channels, even though Dish broadcasts more of them). Plus, you have to have a satellite connection for the OTA module to work. If you want an OTA receiver that doesn't require atleast a satellite connection then you will have to go buy one. Wal-Mart has an OTA receiver for around $200.


----------



## jpfoxey (Jun 10, 2005)

Thanks this is super helpful. 

Ok So I do have a subscription to the locals, it's the 49.99.mos package. I also have Samusng 30" widescreen with a built in HD tuner ( i think that is what you call an OTA Receiver) and with my 10$ antenna I can watch CBS, ABC, NBC and PBS all in HD. 

And I have been reading more and more threads and one guy talks about taping Survivor OTA and more so is that because he has a 942 or what?? Sorry, I lack the accurate terminology.


----------



## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

jpfoxey said:


> I spoke with the Dish guys and while they were still selling the 921 and asked this directly to the higher level of support and even though everyone below them said no this guy said simply plug in your antenna to the 921 you will then be able to see your HD channels through your DVR and because they are broadcast digitally a programming Guido will appear for them. Is that true??? If it is great, if not it makes Digital Cable a lot more appealing(which is hard to do)? Help??


I have had a 921 for about 6 months now and I have also read and asked about the OTA guide. The answers I have are

1) you need to subscribe to Locals ....true
2) you need an OTA antenna ...true
3) you need to scan and add your OTA channels...true
4) It should work after you do all these steps....false

In fact I have called and asked around and most 921 and 924 have software issues handling the OTA guide. They said that they are working on it. and it should be available soon. We hope.

I have talked to several technicians at Dish and finally one opened a request for the programmers to look into this. I do not know if they have or not.


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

jpfoxey said:


> Thanks this is super helpful.
> 
> Ok So I do have a subscription to the locals, it's the 49.99.mos package. I also have Samusng 30" widescreen with a built in HD tuner ( i think that is what you call an OTA Receiver) and with my 10$ antenna I can watch CBS, ABC, NBC and PBS all in HD.
> 
> And I have been reading more and more threads and one guy talks about taping Survivor OTA and more so is that because he has a 942 or what?? Sorry, I lack the accurate terminology.


I think the locals package is $5.99 per month. If you have that and two
satellite feeds (the 921 has two satellite tuners), and you feed your antenna
to the 921 instead of the HD tuner in your Samsung, you should be able
to record the OTA channels (in HD if they are broadcasting in HD) to the 
hard disk, and you should see guide data. The guide data is exactly the
same as for the satellite locals and if there are other subchannels than
the main channel you will not have guide data for those. Having said all
that, you can do the same with the 942 and if I were buying a receiver
now I would go with the 942.


----------



## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I bought my 921 in February 2005 over the phone from Dish. I still subscribe to Patriot Media cable for locals. The Dish Rep told me that I could get HD locals if a put up an antenna. He also told me that if I subscribe to Dish locals that I would get an OTA guide. I had no intention of subscribing to Dish locals, but I took his advice and subscribed to them. I first purchased a Terk antenna from Radio Shack and it did not work. I then found the only
antenna installer in my yellow pages and he installed a Winegard 9095 with a preamp,
and I discovered the wonderful world of OTA. Out of Philadelphia, I am getting 23 OTA channels including substations. I get ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, WB, UPN, Fox and PBS all broadcasting HD programs. I now watch sports in HD. It is so good that my antenna installer is coming back and putting a second antenna up pointing at New York.
I am going to switch between Philadelphia and New York using an A/B switch. OTA is
now 75 percent of my viewing time.

Alas, I have yet to get any OTA guide information for my OTA locals. I cannot record OTA on my 921, even though I was promised this by the Dish Rep. Just think if Dish got 100,000
customers to sign up for locals just to get OTA guide information. That would be $500,000
a month straight to the bottom line with no costs associated, just for a software change!!!
Dish apparently made a decision to have the OTA guide information mirror the Dish local
guide information to increase revenue. Pretty clever, instead of letting the PSIP information from the transmission signal go to the electronic program guide like other tuners, Dish found a way to prop up the bottom line. However, it has not worked for me and I am still paying monthly for my Dish locals. So they better get it right this time with 214.


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Hound said:


> Alas, I have yet to get any OTA guide information for my OTA locals. I cannot record OTA on my 921, even though I was promised this by the Dish Rep.
> 
> However, it has not worked for me and I am still paying monthly for my Dish locals. So they better get it right this time with 214.


I am a little puzzled. Are the locals you get OTA different from those you
get by satellite? If so, that is why you don't get the guide data. I receive
OTA stations from two market areas and only get guide data for the
Nielsen DMA that I am assigned to (which is what Dish provides).
You could still set timers and record OTA without the guide data, right?
I know that is a pain but it is possible since that's how I had to do OTA 
timers last year before any guide data was added.

I agree that PSIP data is the ideal way to go but right now not all stations
have PSIP working right, or they have only data for a few hours ahead.


----------



## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

The Dish locals that I pay for are Philadelphia and the OTA channels I get are Philadelphia. They are the same. There is no OTA guide data. I cannot set timers and record OTA. I have tried manual OTA recording and it does not work.


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Hound said:


> The Dish locals that I pay for are Philadelphia and the OTA channels I get are Philadelphia. They are the same. There is no OTA guide data. I cannot set timers and record OTA. I have tried manual OTA recording and it does not work.


I assume you did try to enable channel downmapping by doing the 
following - but, just in case you didn't,

Go to Preferences (4), View Preferences(2), and click on More. If
there is a check mark in the box Off-Air Antenna Locals, remove it.
That reserves the low channel numbers for analog antenna locals
and prevents the digital locals from dropping down. Taking the check 
out should map the satellite locals down.


----------



## elmc (Jan 7, 2005)

You can record OTA with the 921 even if you don't have the guide data.

I recently installed an antenna and receive all the local channels dish provides plus more from two different cities. I only get guide data from the same channels dish provides and I can record off of those OTA easily using the guide.

The other OTA channels you can record by manually setting a timer. From the main menu, pick 7 - Timers, then create a new timer, setting your channel, start time, and ending time all manually.

Its is a hassle, but it works.


----------



## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

What elmc said. The other drawback is programs recorded from a manual timer are stuck with a generic event title that only identifies the station. The title can't be edited.


----------



## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I have tried channel downmapping. It did not work. My locals ares till up in 8150, 8151, etc.
I will try to manually set a timer as suggested by elmc. Before when I manually tried to set
a timer, I would go to guide and hit record, or I would watch the program and hit record.
Nothing happened. When I went to DVR there was nothing there.


----------



## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

The OTA problem should be easy to fix with a software fix. This is not rocket science.
If the Dish Locals are up in 8150, 8151, etc., there should be a function with the remote
that you can highlight your OTA local in the guide, e.g. 3-1 and then highlight the Dish Local
channel, e.g., 8150 to copy all guide information from the Dish local channel. This would be a manual adjustment to get guide information when the guide information does not copy from Dish Local to OTA channel. I do not know why they cannot figure this out. It should have been fixed in one day. Not months and months and months.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

bbomar said:


> I am a little puzzled. Are the locals you get OTA different from those you
> get by satellite? If so, that is why you don't get the guide data. I receive
> OTA stations from two market areas and only get guide data for the
> Nielsen DMA that I am assigned to (which is what Dish provides).
> ...


The digital locals you get with a TV antenna may be different from the analog channels that satellite provides. An example is PBS is just one channel on analog but may be 3 or 4 channels for digital, therefore that many programs are being displayed at the same time. This is called multicasting and many others refer to this as sub-channels. A digital channel has enough bandwidth to send multiple programs depending if HD or SD.

The guide that the satellite provides only pertains to the primary channel. Example PBS but not PBS-HD, PBS-Kids and PBS-You. Those other channel slots would get same info from just plain PBS.

PS: It's really not worth paying $5 - $6 for channels you can get for free and in HD. Also it not worth paying for wrong guide info when sub-channels are concerned. There are free web sites that provide guide info.


----------



## bryan92 (Oct 30, 2003)

This is for recording non data OTA HD.

Menu/timers(7)/ create/enter ch # say for 11-1 would be 01101, now list of all ota ch should come up. select ch to record/set time start/time stop date/create/done


----------



## Ainshi (Jun 6, 2005)

For what it's worth, our 921 gets correct guide information for main digital stations and all substations.


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Hound said:


> The Dish locals that I pay for are Philadelphia and the OTA channels I get are Philadelphia. They are the same. There is no OTA guide data. I cannot set timers and record OTA. I have tried manual OTA recording and it does not work.
> 
> I have tried channel downmapping. It did not work. My locals ares till up in 8150, 8151, etc.
> 
> The OTA problem should be easy to fix with a software fix.


The only thing is that I think most folks don't have a problem recording OTA,
with or without guide data, provided the timers are set (manually if there
is no guide data). Now I'm wondering if you are waiting for a software fix
when there is really some problem with your 921. Can you record satellite
channels ok?


----------



## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Yes, I record satellite channels fine. Have had problems trying to do two at once, but I guess
everyone has. As a single channel satellite recorder, the 921 has worked well. However, I
would like to time shift OTA shows, because I am not always home when the shows are on
and I want to fast forward through the commercials as well. Can't do it. The OTA HD reception
is exceptional and far superior to satellite or cable. 75 percent of my viewing is OTA.


----------



## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

What happens when you follow the steps listed in post #15?


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Hound said:


> Yes, I record satellite channels fine. Have had problems trying to do two at once, but I guess
> everyone has.


I don't recall ever having a problem recording two channels at once,
other than that you can't do anything else other than play back
something previously recorded, or watch one of the channels being
recorded (since only two tuners can be active at once).

When you are watching OTA, can you pause the program and then
resume it later? If so, the OTA is being recorded to a buffer on disk.
In that case it would certainly seem that you should be able to
record with a timer for later playback. If pausing does not work
then there is a more fundamental problem somewhere.


----------



## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

If you fail to get the guide for OTA but do get the guide for your local-into-local (LIL) channels, then select the LIL program (7000-8999), click on it in the guide or in the timers (menu-7) and change the channel number to mapped number.1 (or .2 for some).
If you were able to add it correctly in the menu 6 8 add digital, then the mapped number will be the same as the analog channel. (Add qualifier about bad channels.)

This get some of the correct info as well as the times.
-Ken


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Ainshi said:


> For what it's worth, our 921 gets correct guide information for main digital stations and all substations.


Are you paying Dishnetwork for locals? How are you able to get individual information for your sub-stations.


----------

