# 921 Ghost Town



## Rovingbar

It is getting pretty sparse around here now. I must be one of 20 who have not upgraded yet. We're moving in a month so I'm combining the upgrade with the move. What is your excuse for haning on?

Inquiring minds want to know. :lol:


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## garyhesq

My excuse is, I'm having a new roof put on my house in the next month or so. I want to upgrade my dishes at the same time. I will do the dishes and upgrade to the 622 together after the roof is done. I can't wait! My 921 has been terrible since the last software upgrade.


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## mwgiii

I am waiting for Dish Summit next month because Dish is supposed to announce new dishes (D500+ & D1000+). Also I don't see the point in letting Dish have my $300 and having to wait for a month for install since Dish still has shortages of the 622.

I don't have to upgrade until football begins in late August.

BTW, my 921 is acting worse than it ever has. So that might speed up my decision process.


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## bobukcat

mwgiii said:


> I am waiting for Dish Summit next month because Dish is supposed to announce new dishes (D500+ & D1000+). Also I don't see the point in letting Dish have my $300 and having to wait for a month for install since Dish still has shortages of the 622.
> 
> I don't have to upgrade until football begins in late August.
> 
> BTW, my 921 is acting worse than it ever has. So that might speed up my decision process.


Everything I've read and seen makes it sound like the D1000 is the shortage, not the 622. When I ordered my upgrade on 4/1 I had a 4/22 install date, recieved the 622 around 4/10 but was unable to move up the install because of the D1000 (even though I ended up convincing them to install a seperate D500 for 61.5 instead). I was aprehensive about this whole deal but the 622 has been PERFECT since a couple of reboots after install (knock on wood) so my 921 is going back tomorrow.

I still think you have valid points on letting them sit on your $300 though, they shouldn't charge your card until they ship the unit and it can be installed.


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## rjruby

mwgiii said:


> BTW, my 921 is acting worse than it ever has. So that might speed up my decision process.


Actually, my 921 has stabilized and is working well.
I think I'll wait a while before upgrading.


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## WildBill

I'm going to be traveling and out of town a lot for the next few months, so it would be 1) difficult to schedule an install and 2) unlikely I would get much use of the ugrade. Like mwgii, I'm waiting until August and hoping that some of the bugs in the new hardware and software will be fixed by then. Plus, there may be a new promotion that is as good or better than what's available now.


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## tthomps

My 921 is working fine, and it has since I activated it in Nov of 2004. I don't mind pulling the plug on it every three months or so to force a cold boot. We get very good OTA reception from Indianapolis about 60 miles away (almost all the the stations are broadcasting from the same antenna farm), so the only HD we watch is OTA. Like mwgii, I don't see upgrading until footbal season comes back around. My favorite part of the OTA HD is the accompanying surround sound. When I run it thorough my home theatre system and crank it up, it sound like I am at the game!


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## Grandude

I'm in no rush now that my 921 has settled down. I'll maybe get serious once the SF locals come this way in HD. Till then, anyway, I would gain nothing by upgrading since I'm not interested in VOOM channels.

Brian


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## mwsmith2

My excuse is that I'm just flat lazy. That, combined with letting the "out of the gate" bugs get squashed and the 921 is working ok now. I'm probably going to make a call this weekend though.

Michael


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## IowaStateFan

For me, it's the cost. I currently have the $10 HD pack and have no interest in Voom. To upgrade I've got to spend an extra $10 for Voom and another $6 for the lease fee and there really isn't any compelling programming for that. When they get around to getting me the networks in HD, I'll consider upgrading. I'm not holding my breath. My market isn't even listed as one being considered for HD, and the distant networks are being held hostage to politics.


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## harsh

I plan on hanging on at least until it looks like the rebate is going away (August) or HD locals are offered in my market. My preference would be a receiver with more than one OTA tuner.

Battlestar Galactica on Universal HD may be calling me though.


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## ClaudeR

I'm a cheap SOB, and only have AT60+locals. I own my 921, and don't want to spend a penny more per month, much less $99AR plus another $6 enabling +$6 rental per month.


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## penguin44

I am also happy with my 921. Very few if any issues with it. I like the channels I get, and have been since november 05. The new HD lineup seems to be ok however they don't really carry anything I would like to watch.


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## Larry Caldwell

Rovingbar said:


> It is getting pretty sparse around here now. I must be one of 20 who have not upgraded yet. We're moving in a month so I'm combining the upgrade with the move. What is your excuse for haning on?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know. :lol:


I had WildBlue satellite internet installed last month, for $249in equpment costs. They're running a free installation special until May 15. By the time I bought a MIMO wireless router, plus a desk and chair so my wife could work at home, it ran me over $800. My disposable income won't handle $1100+ mad money in one month, so I'm putting off the 622 until May.

Meanwhile, I am busily burning all my stored programming to DVD. When I go on business trips, I toss a couple shows I haven't had time to watch in the luggage, and watch them on my laptop in the evenings. With a set of headphones, it beats the hell out of hotel room TV. The screen is bigger than a Dish Player, though you have to do the video capture in real time.

BTW, HD capture may not be possible, but if you capture the SVideo output of HD programming at the best MPEG-2 data rate, you get a very nice quality DVD with no compression artifacts at all. My capture hardware does automatic anamorphic compression, and the result looks top notch on the 17" laptop screen.

I must say I'm really looking forward to the TV2 on the 622, because I will be able to watch one show while doing a video capture on another.


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## AVJohnnie

I'm waiting until June to do the upgrade. This is because I purchase my programming on an annual basis and it renews every June. At that time I plan to request the 622 upgrade and to switch from my present AEP /w HD Pak+Voom Pak+Locals Pak to their new HD Platinum /w Locals offering - and hopefully they'll permit me to continue paying by the year.

I must say however that with the last software update, my old 921 has finally become the useable device that I had always hoped / thought it should be - and if it wasn't for my eternal quest for more HD programming, I'd probably be willing to stick with the old fellow at this point.

In my present dish setup I have 3 Dish500s; 1 for 119/110, 1 for 148, and 1 for 61.5. They all feed into a DPP44. Considering this, I wonder if they will still want to switch a couple of these out for one of the new Dish1000s or if they'll just leave them be and do a little re-aiming? Anyone else in a similar boat that's already gone through the upgrade? Any input as far as what to expect would be appreciated&#8230;Thanks!


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## Rotryrkt

I'll be hanging on to the 921 for awhile as well. I see no "compelling reason" to switch to the 622 now. My 921 is now as stable as it has ever been. I WILL NOT take the "upgrade" deal in any case. All the fees and nickel and diming with the lease program plus the 18 month commitment is over the top. I'll wait till the 921 dies or there is more HD programming before I PURCHASE a 622. Hopefully, by then the price will drop like the 921 did. I bought mine for $500. A 622 for $4oo sounds about right.


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## Leroy

My 921 has been really stable. With all the comments about the 622 HDMI output failures and video/sound synchronization concerns it may be wise to wait a few more months. Who knows this unit may out last my 4900:lol: Also with all the complaints of low signal from the 129 Sat I will keep the 120 signal strength from my 61.5 and use OTA. I Love the old Legacy system


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## harsh

Rotryrkt said:


> I'll wait till the 921 dies or there is more HD programming before I PURCHASE a 622. Hopefully, by then the price will drop like the 921 did. I bought mine for $500. A 622 for $4oo sounds about right.


I think it unlikely that they'll drop the price to a level fully $100 less than the D* lease drive-off fee until such time that a much more desirable replacement exists. The 921 dropped to make room for the 942 and as we all recognize, the 942 went away before they dropped the price. The ViP622 supports all of the special features that Dish offers and the only way I can see that they could improve the feature set would be to add another OTA tuner and turn on some of the USB potential.

The 942 is selling on eBay for about the same price as a 6000.


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## klaatu

I'm waiting for them to announce the Rumored purchase deal. It looks like it will be $700 - $200 rebate, and you own it. 5/1/06. This way I can keep the 921, and get rid of the 5xx's I have.


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## Ron Barry

based on what I read on the rumored deal. You have to return the 921 to get the rebate just like the lease deal.


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## DonLandis

Waiting for a compelling reason to make the move as my 921 is working without intollerable problems.

The 622 currently has intolerable problems, is in short supply, complicated to install as it has to involve a service scheduling. The cost to me will also increase my monthly billing. So what's the benefit for this increased cost and monthly billing? The only thing I can figure out is I'll be able to claim I have a 622. I have seen no MP4 offerings that I would want yet which is a personal incentive. 

What am I looking for that WOULD make me jump on board and get the install scheduled-
Must- after June 15th as I am traveling too much right now to be here for an install anyway.

Desired- Need to see some new compelling programming in HD MP4 that I don't now have. That would be Starz HD, TMC HD, Cinemax HD, Maybe more Voom but that is low priority for me now. 

Finally, I'd like to see favorable reports that the 622 has all its intolerable issues fixed. I don't like the idea of being Dish's buyin test facility for their receiver experiments. I want a product that works like it should for a change.


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## harsh

klaatu said:


> I'm waiting for them to announce the Rumored purchase deal. It looks like it will be $700 - $200 rebate, and you own it. 5/1/06. This way I can keep the 921, and get rid of the 5xx's I have.


I can't say that I see the motivation for owning any receiver. As I see it, owning doesn't offer anything more than leasing unless you lease the receiver for at least six years. Dish has demonstrated that they'll offer the same upgrade options whether you lease or own.


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## Rotryrkt

harsh said:


> I can't say that I see the motivation for owning any receiver. As I see it, owning doesn't offer anything more than leasing unless you lease the receiver for at least six years. Dish has demonstrated that they'll offer the same upgrade options whether you lease or own.


No 18 month commitment plus a $6/mo lease fee!! I will not make such a commitment contract for any consumer device. That's why I have prepaid cellular service! I want the option to change my mind on a dime without a financial penalty.


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## ratflinger

Just got a 'new' replacement 921, I'll give it a chance for a decent death before I switch. I will switch before the deadline though.


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## harsh

Rotryrkt said:


> No 18 month commitment plus a $6/mo lease fee!!


At $800, it would take you about 10 years to beat the $6/month fee.

Imagine for a moment if you had purchased a 942 in April of 2005. If you sold it today on eBay you would have a $1,000 investment which you sold for $280. Monthly cost: $60/month. If you trade it in, you would have paid $75/month. It just keeps getting better.

There has to be a more compelling reason to buy than the opportunity to flush several times the monthly lease fee down the drain. You would have to be deathly afraid of committment.


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## lujan

I made that mistake of purchasing the 921 (along with a 510) and I paid $1,000 for it just because it was the first HD DVR. I only had it for about 26 months. That means I paid about $38.00 per month for the 921. Of course, I did get a $200 credit for the 622 so it works to about $31.00 per month but that is still way more ($25.00 more) than the $6.00 lease fee and I will be able to have the latest technology whenever it is released. I will never purchase another receiver. But, I don't think the 921 was ever available for lease, was it?


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## Grandude

lujan said:


> I made that mistake of purchasing the 921 (along with a 510) and I paid $1,000 for it just because it was the first HD DVR. I only had it for about 26 months. That means I paid about $38.00 per month for the 921. Of course, I did get a $200 credit for the 622 so it works to about $31.00 per month but that is still way more ($25.00 more) than the $6.00 lease fee and I will be able to have the latest technology whenever it is released. I will never purchase another receiver. But, I don't think the 921 was ever available for lease, was it?


How much more are you paying per month to Dish for the new 'metal' package over the old package you had? Methinks this must also be added into your computations.


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## lujan

Grandude said:


> How much more are you paying per month to Dish for the new 'metal' package over the old package you had? Methinks this must also be added into your computations.


I'm paying $7.00/month more for the metal package but
1. this is still much less than I paid per month by buying the 921 and
2. this is not comparing apples to apples because I am getting many more HD stations (not to mention the digital locals on satellite) than I did with the 921. In the long run (or should I say short run), it is much better to lease than to purchase.


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## KKlare

I plan to keep the 921 when I buy a 622 to give 2 HD sources--second HDTV (1080P 50" for $2200?) to be bought too. I hope to get 2 500 dishes 61.5 (or 129)+110/119 SW64 driving 921/811/501 upgraded to DP44 and Dish 1000. I will then return the DHP 501 and/or $200-leased? 811. Would like to use single lines to 921 and 622 and perhaps keep 61.5 for PI channels like ARTS. Guess the upgrade would be the time to go Platinum for only a few more $ than AT120+Locals+... .
-Ken


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## mwsmith2

I stepped over to the dark side. Install is scheduled for May 12th.

I folded. 



Michael


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## Michael P

I'm keeping my 921 for now because I don't want to pay any more fees 

I got the 921 to "future proof" my set-up 

I don't have an HD set yet and already the 921 is obsolete. They raised the DVR fee and I lost all my recordings when the latestet software upgrade downloaded during bad weather (fortunately this did not wipe out the unit, which is my 5th 921).

The best thing about the 921 is the OTA tuner. Unfortunately they want me to pay for their overcompressed SD "locals" :nono:

The SD satellite channels look better than they did with my old 4000.

So, until I feel the need to subscribe to the VOOM channels I'll keep what I have.


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## AVJohnnie

Today I decided to end my self-imposed wait on doing the upgrade and called the special 921 to 622 upgrade phone number Mark posted back at the end of March (which BTW still works!) My 622 install is now scheduled for the 27th. The CSR was fully knowledgeable regarding all aspects of the upgrade offer and extremely courteous. She verified all elements of my current hardware setup and confirmed for me that the installer would be substituting two of my present three dishes with one of the new dish1000s. And since I prefer to buy my programming on an annual basis, she even offered to pre-credit the $200 rebate against my account.

If broken down by the month, my new bill works out to four dollars more per month than what I was paying last year – I can live with that. I’m now re-subbed for HD Platinum /w Locals and DHPP for the next year.

If the upcoming install goes as well as today’s CSR experience, I should be a completely satisfied camper by the end of the month.


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## n0qcu

AVJohnnie your *FONT=Times New Roman SIZE=4* that you use in your posts makes them HARD to read.


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## tm22721

Right now I'm into milking Dish, rather than the other way around. I have no subscription commitment and I like it that way should a better alternative come along.

I'll keep my 921 until they are forced to give me a new receiver (when they shut off MPEG2 HD feeds) or until it fails (I have insurance). I'm not playing their upgrade game every two years. It's a sucker's ploy to keep you subscribed forever like cell phones.


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## Rovingbar

AVJohnnie said:


> Today I decided to end my self-imposed wait on doing the upgrade and called the *special 921 to 622 upgrade phone* number Mark posted back at the end of March (which BTW still works!)


BTW: I looked up the phone number that AVJohnnie referred to. It was posted in this post,
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=55534

Temporary 921-622 Upgrade Number: 1-888-825-2569

Jeff


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## chewey

Still got my 921. I like that I can get local OTA info without subing to local channels. I don't want to lose my distant nets.


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## Jason Nipp

DonLandis said:


> The 622 currently has intolerable problems, is in short supply, complicated to install as it has to involve a service scheduling.


Don, my 622 is pretty rock solid. I would not consider it intolerable at all. In fact, I have less gripes about it than I do my 522 or 811. It's been awhile since my 622 has belched. As always YMMV.


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## DonLandis

Good to hear, Jason. As long as those reports keep coming in, I may decide to jump on board in a few weeks. As I said in other posts, some people consider a reboot or stuttering video and audio tolerable but I do not. When I want to watch a program, the last thing I want to do is put up with my program getting interupted due to poorly tested and prematurely released hardware. I put up with it on the first generation box, the 921, but the 622 is a 3rd generation technology and as such I expect it to be no less than 100% perfect or it is, IMHO, intolerable.


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## GeeWhiz1

Don,

I can understand your desire for a solid performance from your equipment. But I do think that perfection is too high of a standard, but then that's the standard that you want which is fine. I don't think that you will ever see 100% perfection in any piece of home entertainment equipment. There are just too many variables.

That said, we have just loved our 622. We've had it for over 3 weeks now. The only issues we had with ours were "operator error", not hardware or software issues. My wife did think that we had video stuttering once, but by the time I got there, it had stopped. AND, it's never shown up again. So I don't know if the was signal problem or a 622 problem.

We never had a lot of problems with our 921. But the few that we had were almost intolerable for me. I was really glad to make the upgrade, even knowing that there would be growing pains with a brand new model of receiver. I'm even happier now.


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## Grandude

GeeWhiz1,
I must take exception. I have a Samsung 46in DLP TV, a JVC 8030 AVC receiver, a Panasonic DVD player, a Toshiba VCR, a JVC turntable, a Toshiba HD 3x4 TV and three computers and none of them have had ANY problems compared to my Dish Network 6000, 811, 721 and 921 which have had so many problems that I can't even count. Now, I will admit that I have had a few Dish receivers that have not had a lot of problems, a 501 and a couple of old four digit ones which have been turned into shelfware.

Having said all that, I do think that Dish has done a purty good job of releasing new satelite receivers and am pulling for them to continue but surely wish that they could do a little bit better job BEFORE releasing them to us.

The 622 is a third generation receiver and should not have any of the problems that the first and second generation ones had. But sadly to say they have many of the old problems along with a few new ones.

Not grousing, just stating the facts as I see them............

Brian in Santa Rosa, CA..........on the far left coast.............


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## GeeWhiz1

Brian,

I've had about 6 receivers from E*, including my 622. The only one that I ever had problems with was the 921. So, I have had a different experience than you.

I have a Mitsubishi W52525 DLP, Onyko TX-SR800, a Panasonic DMR E55 DVD recorder and various other equipment. I have had several conflicts in setting up that system. I have also had my share of issues with each piece before I finally got them settled into the current configuration.

My point is that the equipment all interacts. Any one piece can have a problem or be a problem. You will never have perfection. If you do, more power to you, but I will be very skeptical if you tell me that they have all been perfect and without flaws.


Greg in Santa Rosa, CA ... in the heart of the whine country.


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## DonLandis

GeeWhiz1

When you get something that does work without flaws in the system, you can be considered lucky with Dish. But I do expect that the 622 will work 100% perfect because it IS a 3rd generation product. In addition, I expect that when it was released, they should have enough beta test reports to demonstrate a number of failures. When I hear reports from these forums of a 622 product in final testing and then it is released only to be followed with too many reports of intolerable failures then I have to assume the product was not properly tested or that it was and Dish (E*) decided to release it anyway. 
I also recognize that many people who post here are unpaid cheerleaders for the company and will say anything to defend E* all while they too put up with intolerable(IMO) issues with the products. Some here have used TV sets and other hardware as a comparison. I will use MY own DVR counterpart as a comparison. I have had E* and D* for going on 7 years and have had a number of receivers. The least buggy when I bought it was the Dish 5000 with HDTV modulator. As for DVR's, it was my HD TIVO. Now please understand, I am not saying a piece of equipment won'tt have failures of operator errors. But if I can determine it is operator error such as "My remote no longer works but then I change out the batteries and now it works" duh! that is no fault of E*. Or, if I see stuttering of the picture briefly and come to learn my dish got knocked out of alignment and the signal is marginal, then that is not the fault of E* But if I haf a spontaneous reboot that lasts for 5 minutes while I was doing nothing more than watching a program, then this is an intolerable issue. E* has no excuse for selling equipment that works this way when it is a 3rd generation product. Minor issues like aspect ration alignment is intolerable on a 3rd generation but my be excused on the 1st generation. I had much fewer problems with my 921 and today, I have no issues minor or major with it. It is a 921 hardware vintage that I bought when it first came out. 
If it is a mechanical or electrical failure, I understand that may be the luck of the draw. I don't blame E* for having a % of receivers that fail out the door but to see the number of common complaints here tells me they were still experimenting and using early adopters for their beta testing. Hell, they even admitted doing this as a practice with their tiered level release of the product as well as their tiered release of the upgrades. 
Interaction of equipment is, IMO, tyo be expected to have a myriad of issues depending on the other equipment being connected. E* can never be blamed by me if their receivers have problems such as their remotes not properly controlling another brand, due to remote codes not being accurate. But if the Dish remote can't even control it's own device properly, then I have an issue with that. 
While my TIVO has had one breakdown issue, one of my hard drives I used for 14 months finall failed and when I simply swapped it out with a new one it began working flawlessly again. These are not the types of problems I'm talking about, although when a hard drive fails that is intolerable, the breakdown of equipment is not the fault of E* as long as it didn't fry in the warranty period. 
Again these are not the flaws that I am insisting be 100% perfect. Perfection to me is when I want to watch a program I recorded, I don't want to expect it will have stuttery audio, lip sync issues or blacked out picture when I switch channels. I do not want to hear "we know about that problem and it will be fixed in the next software upgrade ." By this time, the onl;y reason E* should be considering a software upgrade should be to add a new feature, either hidden or user enhancement. But not to correct something like loss of video after the receiver is on for 3 hours. Stuff like that is what I'm talking about.

Now I did say that my HD TIVO was 100% perfect but I do recognize that a huge number of buyers did have an issue with the HDMI daughter card coming unplugged from the MB and loss of video. I did not have this problem because I fixed it by correcting the incomplete assembly falw so many had where a lock down clip holding the card was not in place. I fixed mine before it became an issue. Not everybody would do that so then it becomes an intolerable failure that TIVO had to deal with. TIVO was not perfect for all but I had no issues with it. Unfortunately a new buyer should not rely on my reports of perfect product but reports from everyone. Then look at the general probability that they may have the same issues. This is what I do. And, this is why I said that I'll wait until the bad reports diminish.


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## GeeWhiz1

Don,

I think that in the interest of keeping this discussion to the level of "support" as intended in this forum, we'll just have to agree that we disagree. I don't think that we are all that far apart. It's just that we define perfect and intolerable differently.

I am by no means an apologist for E*. But until I got my 921, I honestly never had a problem with any of their receivers. While I have been a subscriber for 8+ years, I didn't get into HD until about a year and half ago. That was when I got my 921.

That said, I have had my 622 for about a month now. I have not had any of the problems that you consider intolerable. Mine is working as advertized. I am not saying that others haven't had problems with theirs. Simply that I have not and I suspect neither have the majority. With any new machine, there will be things that go wrong that didn't show up in beta testing. That happened with my digital camera, my TV and several other devices that I own. In some cases, I got firmware/software upgrades before I ever knew there was a problem.

Some problems are caused by a set up that wasn't anticipated in testing. Some may be caused by things that happen in the real world, like dirty power transmission in a given area. Others were caused by defective units coming out of manufacturing. In the last case, it's important to see how those units were dealt with. From what I have read around here, in most cases they were simply replaced and the problems went away.

Maybe in time, you'll feel that the 622 will work for you. I hope so. I guarantee you that I'll be screaming if anything goes wrong with mine.

Greg in Santa Rosa, CA ... in the heart of the whine country.


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## DonLandis

_"I think that in the interest of keeping this discussion to the level of "support" as intended in this forum, we'll just have to agree that we disagree. I don't think that we are all that far apart. It's just that we define perfect and intolerable differently.
"_

Yes, this 921 support section has varied as the times have changed. This entire thread is more about people explaining their current position on leaving 921 than trying to figure out how to fix something wrong with it. I do think my definition of intolerable is quite loose. Simply put it is anything that fails that prevents me from watching a program or DVR recorded program like a 1950's ish TV set! i.e. turn it on I get sound and opicture until I turn it off. If the picture goes out and it's my antenna, then that's not the problem of the receiver but if it goes out and takes 3-5 minutes to come back (as in reboot) that's intolerable. I'm not sure what you say is excusable. But, the reports of this type of program viewing interruption for many 622 based reasons is pervasive with the 622. I'm glad yours and several others are free from this. That is reassuring to me that, maybe I will have good luck and now be plagued with this as some still report. Again, my 921 purchased in January of the year of introduction, is working flawlessly even though it was really bad the first 9 months of ownership. 
Based on the current reports and my personal schedule, I should be able to set up an install schedule sometime mid to end of June.


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## GeeWhiz1

Thanks Don,

Good luck when you do get a 622. I hope you enjoy it as much as we are enjoying ours.


Greg in Santa Rosa, CA ... in the heart of the whine country


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## boylehome

GeeWhiz1 said:


> Greg in Santa Rosa, CA ... in the heart of the *whine* country


Greg,

I've been to Santa Rosa many times and have failed to hear the whining your talking about. Maybe it is because the wine has a dampening effect?:lol:


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## harsh

mwsmith2 said:


> I stepped over to the dark side. Install is scheduled for May 12th.


I'm assuming that you didn't bust your wallet for an HD DVR. I would have waited for the HR20 before making a jump.


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## seadoo

I am confused by all the notes. Currently have 921 that I pay $5 extra for as additional receiver plus $6 DVR fee. If I go to 622 would the lease fee replace the receiver fee or is it in addition? Assume I would still have to pay $6DVR fee plus $10 More above my existing HD pack.


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## erikjohn

tm22721 said:


> Right now I'm into milking Dish, rather than the other way around. I have no subscription commitment and I like it that way should a better alternative come along.
> 
> I'll keep my 921 until they are forced to give me a new receiver (when they shut off MPEG2 HD feeds) or until it fails (I have insurance). I'm not playing their upgrade game every two years. It's a sucker's ploy to keep you subscribed forever like cell phones.


I agree 100%. When I started with dish over 10 years ago they were all about customer satisfaction and value. Now they are trying to shove a reciever down our throats:nono: . Not having OTA with the 622 is pure bull .

I am seriously starting to consider digital cable which I never thought I would here myself say. I used to be huge E* supporter but not sure that I am on board anymore.

Erik


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## 4HiMarks

I have not upgraded as I also see no "compelling reason". It was just announced that FiOS TV is coming to my area (Laurel, MD) in late August, so I will probably switch to that. It depends on what kind of DVR Verizon provides.

-Chris


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## Rovingbar

Let us know how the FiOS turns out. I just left an area that recently got FiOS and didn't bother to sign up since we were moving.

Yes folks, we moved in to our new home today. I've got our shiny new VIP 622 just waiting for install... NEXT WEEK. Ugh. Oh well, at least we got to see the season finale of LOST.


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## ClaudeR

Still here. Lots of tumbleweeds, but there are still inhabitants in this ghost town.


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## Frank Z

I haven't been around here much, but I still have mine and hope to hang on to it as long as possible.


And I'm still using a 6000 too.


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## DonLandis

Mine working perfectly but the drive is full with James Bond Movies.

My 622 arrived today but won't be installed until the 26th. I'll be traveling until then so that's OK. Then I guess the fun begins. The 622 is causing about 60% of the people issues that are quite disruptive to normal viewing. Hope i'm in the other 40%.


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## dfergie

Mine works perfect, just getting full of Soundstages from Rave...622 full of new Starz HD stuff  , need to get rid of 811 and get another 622...


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## DonLandis

Well, tomorrow the Dish install of my new 622 is scheduled. With all the problems people are reporting with the 622, I'm really concerned with its reliability. My 921 is still working without any problems. I'll have the month of July to decide whether to turn it in but based on what I read in the 622 forums, I'll just keep the 921 for reliability for now. If I get lucky and have no intolerable issues with the 622, I'll attempt to get my tradein credit. I understand I have until the end of July to decide. Frankly, I'd rather have the extra capacity and tuners for recording not to mention the fact that the 921 does not reboot in the middle of a program or have lost DVI or sound stuttering that is reported on the 622 than to lose for the 200 bucks they will give me in credit.


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## BarryO

DonLandis said:


> Well, tomorrow the Dish install of my new 622 is scheduled.


So wh do you need to get a 622 "installed" if you are an existing customer? or are you also getting a Dish 1000 installed?

FWIW I still have my 921 and it's still working fine. Although I'm considering buying a 622 from Dish Depot as a new "primary" receiver, and moving the 921 to another room. I changed the Dish 500 to a 1000 awhile go (relocated the 500 to the vacation house).


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## DonLandis

BarryO

From what I understand, I don't need a Dish1000. I have a 500 and a single 28" for 61.5. According to Dish, I have to keep the 61.5 refgardless for my CBS HD that I have now. 

I would have installed the 622 myself but the CSR said if I did not let their installer do it on the day scheduled, the 622 warranty would be voided. So I told them that I would wait. Here it is, the time, and nobody has shown up nor has anyone called. I wonder if it will be overlooked? Considering the reported track records of Dish and DirecTV installers, I wouldn't be surprised. I have the 622 in place on the shelf with all the connections needed. All the installer needs to do is plug the 622 in, set the remote control to something other than ch1 and activate it. The 921 will remain on the shelf above it. I do not plan on sending it in for a $200 credit until the 622 proves perfect as reliable as the 921 and then only if I find I don't need it. I have until the 29th of July to decide. My current thinking is that for $200 I just keep it.

As I explained to the CSR when I ordered, I'll schedule my time to be here on the 26th all day. They've had me scheduled for a month. I received the 622 via UPS back on the 8th I recall. If no one shows, I'll activate it tonight or tomorrow and see where that gets me. I've always had good luck with the Dish Network CSR's anyway.


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## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> BarryO
> 
> From what I understand, I don't need a Dish1000. I have a 500 and a single 28" for 61.5. According to Dish, I have to keep the 61.5 refgardless for my CBS HD that I have now.
> 
> I would have installed the 622 myself but the CSR said if I did not let their installer do it on the day scheduled, the 622 warranty would be voided. So I told them that I would wait. Here it is, the time, and nobody has shown up nor has anyone called. I wonder if it will be overlooked? Considering the reported track records of Dish and DirecTV installers, I wouldn't be surprised. I have the 622 in place on the shelf with all the connections needed. All the installer needs to do is plug the 622 in, set the remote control to something other than ch1 and activate it. The 921 will remain on the shelf above it. I do not plan on sending it in for a $200 credit until the 622 proves perfect as reliable as the 921 and then only if I find I don't need it. I have until the 29th of July to decide. My current thinking is that for $200 I just keep it.
> 
> As I explained to the CSR when I ordered, I'll schedule my time to be here on the 26th all day. They've had me scheduled for a month. I received the 622 via UPS back on the 8th I recall. If no one shows, I'll activate it tonight or tomorrow and see where that gets me. I've always had good luck with the Dish Network CSR's anyway.


Don, its $100 back for the 921. You are eligible for the $10 off for 10 months regardless of whether you return the 921 as long as you upgrade to a new DishHD (metallic) package.


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## DonLandis

_"Don, its $100 back for the 921. "_

I believe that is a different rebate deal than what I originally have here. The $200 deal is for return of the 921, the $100 deal is for upgrade to metallic HD which I also qualify for. This is how they are claiming the upgrade to lease can cost $0 but you have to turn in the 921 and upgrade.

$299 cash up front for lease 622
-$200 for 921
-$100 for package upgrade

The install is complete. The rep showed up at 9:00 and checked everything out and activated the 622. It took Dish about 5 minutes to bring up my Platinum package. As the installer was unfamilier with my HT configuration, I worked with him in the remote programming and he followed my suggestions for putting the remote on another channel so it would not interfere with my 921 or neighbor's Dish equipment via UHF. I hope I'm in that 20% group that has no problems. One thing the installer did say was that in his experience, few people who have legacy (SW64) switch and large dishes with 100+ signals have problems. He said all the DP stuff is sensitive and the source for many recalls. He also had a few 622's bad out of the box but mostly it was the DP switches that are causing problems.
Now I have to reprogram my HT Master remote for the 622, replacing the 6000.


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## harsh

DonLandis said:


> The $200 deal is for return of the 921, the $100 deal is for upgrade to metallic HD which I also qualify for.


The $200 trade-in deal went away on or about 6/9. The current deal is $100 for the 921 and $100 for the Metal subscription after a $199 lease buy-in. Either way, after 10 months of Metal programming, you still have nothing out-of-pocket outside of the additional programming expense.


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## DonLandis

harsh- Yes, that is what's now but I'm under an older contract from May 29th that states I have until July 29th to send back the 921 for a $200 credit on my programming. But like I said earlier, it is really academic at this point since I feel the 921 is worth more than $200 to keep it here for additional HD capacity for time shifting. 

Been watching the new 622 and it does look very good! They did a nice job with the analog encoder and the image quality is quite good. I haven't tried DVI yet but I can;'t imagine it looking much better. Anyway, in an A/B test with both the 921 and the 622 connected to the same monitor on the same HD channels, the 622 is a much cleaner, lower video noise component image. I know several people told me this but I had to see it for myself to believe it. I'll connect up the DVI / HDMI adapter and A/B them later. Additionally, I have to also say that the component output from the 622 even looks cleaner than my HDTIVO with it's HDMI connection. That tells me D* is really muddying up their HD channels again.  

The MP4 channels, have some problems, however and we'll have to do a wait and see on those, hopefully E* will learn how to deal with this new compression.


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## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> harsh- Yes, that is what's now but I'm under an older contract from May 29th that states I have until July 29th to send back the 921 for a $200 credit on my programming. But like I said earlier, it is really academic at this point since I feel the 921 is worth more than $200 to keep it here for additional HD capacity for time shifting.
> 
> Been watching the new 622 and it does look very good! They did a nice job with the analog encoder and the image quality is quite good. I haven't tried DVI yet but I can;'t imagine it looking much better. Anyway, in an A/B test with both the 921 and the 622 connected to the same monitor on the same HD channels, the 622 is a much cleaner, lower video noise component image. I know several people told me this but I had to see it for myself to believe it. I'll connect up the DVI / HDMI adapter and A/B them later. Additionally, I have to also say that the component output from the 622 even looks cleaner than my HDTIVO with it's HDMI connection. That tells me D* is really muddying up their HD channels again.
> 
> The MP4 channels, have some problems, however and we'll have to do a wait and see on those, hopefully E* will learn how to deal with this new compression.


Check what you are charged. I think they are charging 199 for all machines shipped after 6/9 even if you were originally told 299. And even if they originally made a one time chareg of 299 (which actually only goes against what you actually have on your bill).


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## DonLandis

Again, I will verify what I said earlier. I was charged $299.... Why are so many worried over this? I understand many are confused over this. But as much as I would like to pay less, I was charged what they said I would be charged and what I agreed to. My account also shows a $10 credit for 10 months as stated earlier, for the upgrade to HD Platinum that I did today. In 11 months I expect my bill to increase by $10 + tax.


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## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> Again, I will verify what I said earlier. I was charged $299.... Why are so many worried over this? I understand many are confused over this. But as much as I would like to pay less, I was charged what they said I would be charged and what I agreed to. My account also shows a $10 credit for 10 months as stated earlier, for the upgrade to HD Platinum that I did today. In 11 months I expect my bill to increase by $10 + tax.


There are some who MIGHT be charged 299 and only get 100 back. So its something to watch out for, particuarly if you ordered before the price change and have it delivered after.


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## DonLandis

tnsprin- Now you aren't suggesting that Dish network would try to cheat their customers out of a hundred bucks that they comitted in wirting to are you?  LOL!


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## BarryO

DonLandis said:


> BarryO
> 
> From what I understand, I don't need a Dish1000. I have a 500 and a single 28" for 61.5. According to Dish, I have to keep the 61.5 refgardless for my CBS HD that I have now.


So are the HD channels on 129 mirrored on 61.5?

Regarding the upgrade to the HD Platinum package, what's the cost difference between it, and the old AEP + HD Pak?


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## DonLandis

_"So are the HD channels on 129 mirrored on 61.5?"_

Yes. I get them all with 61.5. I had it confirmed on Monday that if I had to get 129, I would need to chop two trees down in my neighbor's yard. I was also told that CBS NY HD is ONLY on 61.5 too. I get that as well. From what I understand 129 is mostly for west coast and 61.5 is mostly for East coast. However, there is a huge overlap. Installer said they can't get Dish 1000 here and have been installing with my configuration everywhere.


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## brettbolt

Don, your 921 -> 622 experience will help me decide whether to get a 622, so keep us posted as often as you can on the 622 reliability (or not) compared to the 921.

My 5th 921 (since Feb 06) is in transit. I've had to fall back to using my old dependable 501.

What's frustrating is that I had the 4th 921 up for sale on eBay when it broke! (hard drive failed). So I took it off eBay and am hoping the 5th one will last long enough to sell on eBay. (Anyone want to buy a "refurbished" 921?)

I'm also curious if Dish will give you the $200 credit like they promised, or will it be $100 + 10 months of $10 off of the HD price?


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## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> tnsprin- Now you aren't suggesting that Dish network would try to cheat their customers out of a hundred bucks that they comitted in wirting to are you?  LOL!


No. But my 2nd was ordered at 299 and charged at 299. Yep charged before it was sent and the 299 shows on my online bill as being used against my other monthly charges starting back in May. I am suppose to get it tomorrow. I expect, but don't know, that it will actually appear as 199 (which if so will save me some tax) and that I will receive 100 for the return for the 921. Will let everyone know what happens.


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## bhawley

DonLandis said:


> I do not plan on sending it in for a $200 credit until the 622 proves perfect as reliable as the 921 anyway.





> I'll just keep the 921 for reliability for now.


Never thought I would see this


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## DonLandis

brettbolt said:


> Don, your 921 -> 622 experience will help me decide whether to get a 622, so keep us posted as often as you can on the 622 reliability (or not) compared to the 921.
> 
> My 5th 921 (since Feb 06) is in transit. I've had to fall back to using my old dependable 501.
> 
> What's frustrating is that I had the 4th 921 up for sale on eBay when it broke! (hard drive failed). So I took it off eBay and am hoping the 5th one will last long enough to sell on eBay. (Anyone want to buy a "refurbished" 921?)
> 
> I'm also curious if Dish will give you the $200 credit like they promised, or will it be $100 + 10 months of $10 off of the HD price?


brett- I will but as for the $200 credit, I did say that I would most likely keep the 921. But that decision could change based on two factors. 1. If the 921 fails, I will then return it for the $200 credit as promised before 7/29. 2. If the 622 comes out with their expansion hard drive (unlikely) before 7/29. If these first two don't happen, I will hold onto the 921 as my reliable backup. Some have suggested I get a second 622 and collect the $200 but the problem is I don't want to be experimenting with two DVR's still in development. I've already got my new charges and it does reflect the $100 credit for the sub package upgrade. Re your 5th 921. Wow! I'd be moving to anything if that's your luck so far. I'm still on my original one that I bought 3 weeks after they were released!

I was planning to test the 622 on HDMI this weekend but the last two days weather took its unfortunate toll on my Dwin PJ head. It is down now waiting for a new bulb. Hopefully that is all it is wrong. I discovered my UPS dedicated to the Dwin had a dead BU battery and when the power jogged on and off about 20 times Monday and Tuesday while the PJ was on, apparently blew the bulb. ouch! It had 2850 hours so it was due anyway. I'm running on my backup projector now and it has a HDMI input but I need a longer cable to reach. My HDMI testing may get delayed. Besides the bulb I will be buying a new UPS / battery now.


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## mr_speeed

bhawley said:


> Never thought I would see this


No fair you stole my post


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## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> brett- I will but as for the $200 credit, I did say that I would most likely keep the 921. But that decision could change based on two factors. 1. If the ...


Note this post

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=59947

It shows what I predicted. So unless your bill actually shows a 299 upgrade charge, not a 299 payment, your 921 may now be only worth 100. Makes you wonder if you should do something else with it rather then return it to Dish.


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## DonLandis

_"Makes you wonder if you should do something else with it rather then return it to Dish."_

Actually, I stated I would probably keep the 921 but if you are claiming that Dish will not give me the $200 credit They stated, then it is doubly certain I will be keeping it. Either way, I just checked my online statement of charges and it reads like a local telephone bill with charges and credits, but I agree with CABill's assessment that with the payment posted of $299 and the new upgrade charge of $199 the bill looks right. But on my statement, it looks like I have a credit of $183 but $100 of that may be the HD metal upgrade I did. I have to examine it closer. I may never know if Dish will pay me the stated $200 credit because I am planning to just keep the 921 for now. It's a great DVR even for local HD channels you know. Besides, maybe you and others were not aware but there is third party procedure (not from E*) that explains how to swap out and replace the hard drives on your own. It's not that difficult and the Hard drive is the single most vulnerable thing on the 921. If I couldn't do that it would definitly go back!


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## brettbolt

DonLandis said:


> ... Besides, maybe you and others were not aware but there is third party procedure (not from E*) that explains how to swap out and replace the hard drives on your own. It's not that difficult and the Hard drive is the single most vulnerable thing on the 921. If I couldn't do that it would definitly go back!


When my 2nd 921 died of hard drive failure, the Dish Tech said that the hard drive holds the operating system. Its not just a blank slate for recording shows.

So you would need to make a backup image of your hard drive BEFORE it fails.

I'm on my 5th 921 since Feb '06 and I put it up for sale on eBay. I'm tired of the hassle with their frequent problems. The 4th one died of hard drive failure, just like the 2nd one.

Tomorrow (Saturday), my 622 will be installed. I still can't believe how soon I'm getting it -- I ordered it Thursday evening and it is scheduled to be installed only 2 days later! All the guy (or gal) has to do is connect the cables and plug it in. I already installed a separate dish for 129.

Question: I don't need (or want) a Dish 1000 on my roof. Will it be mine to sell if the installer doesn't use it? Or will he insist on taking it back with him?


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## Grandude

brettbolt said:


> I already installed a separate dish for 129.
> 
> Question: I don't need (or want) a Dish 1000 on my roof. Will it be mine to sell if the installer doesn't use it? Or will he insist on taking it back with him?


My gut feeling is that he will not let you have it.


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## DonLandis

brett- As I recall there are actually 5 partitions you need to do the images for. How you do this is not for discussion here! butyou must do the copies with Ghost version 9. Yes, you must remove a good drive and make those images before the drive fails. Duh! The bust was that in the development stages of this process, the discovery was that you had to make only 250G drives and there was no way to increase the size of the partition for the programs, so the 25 hr was all you can get per drive. I don't recall all the details since it's been a couple years since I reviewed the process but I do recall reading where some tried 300G drives and no matter what, the larger program partition never would work past the 25 hr's of storage capacity for HD. 


My install was done similar to yours. The installer checked through my entire system and wrote what I had up on his sheet. I had the 622 on the shelf and connected but not turned on. I left the actual power plug for him to do. His only problem with my setup was the use of crip-on connectors. He said he had to change all them out. I said, knock yourself out! with a smile as I usually do that every so often anyway as it was about 4 years and due. He spent the next hour doing that behind my equipment cabinet and on the roof. I have 4 cables and one for the OTA run in. Saved me some money doing that. When done there was no signal change. He also checked the alignment of each dish and still no signal change, I have 100 on all he checked. He was hap[py with that. In the process and some light conversation, he said he was a subcontracrtor and gets paid by the hour and is expecterd to make sure the install is done without call backs. If he has to come back he gets a penalty. If true, that may explain why installers are so insistant on doing it their way. Also, they are allowed to charge to each order the hardware used.


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## brettbolt

Don,

I figured that you knew about making the image before the drive fails, but most people wait until it is too late. Also, I think you need a Maxtor QuickView drive, and they are not cheap. Dish Network will repair an out-of-warranty 921 for a flat fee of about $49, so why bother with a hard drive backup at all?

My installer should show up within the next 4.5 hours. I used a separate Dish for 129. Its peaked. My lines to and from the DP34 have drip loops and gold screw-on RG-6 connectors. The DP34 is bonded to a 6' grounding rod. What could go wrong?


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## DonLandis

What could go wrong? A direct hit! Just kidding

The new style connectors the installer insisted he replace were really nice ones. I have never seen these before. They are fairly large by comparison. You strip the cable properly and then these push on and the back has an Oring seal against the RG6 insulation. I was impressed with them so obviously, I was happy for him to swap out all my cables (except the DirecTV ones ). These are supposed to be waterproof when connected. He claimed that none of the other style are. He gave me one to keep. 

I didn't know about Dish repairing the 921 hard drive for Flat fee of $49. That is quite a bargain unless they just swap with another used 921. I'm sure with the upgrade deal they have plenty in stock now. You don't need a Maxtor Quick view. These were recommended for the TIVO by Weakknees at one time but not necessary. If you can deal with the heat and the shorter life the 7200 RPM ones are much cheaper and will work fine. Also, I think there is another issue with the 921 and the backup drives. The initial formatting is created by the 921 on a virgin drive and as such, the internal 921 proms do the job but when they do a software upgrade the older drive will no longer work. Then you have to make a new backup with the latest software version. I think a few people were caught with that problem in the past. One thing certain, the hard drive fix is not as easy as it is with the TIVO.


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## brettbolt

DonLandis said:


> What could go wrong? A direct hit! Just kidding


The install went quickly -- most of the time we just chatted while waiting for it to be activated. He was quite surprised that I had the 129 Dish installed, and no changes were necessary. The gold screw-on connectors are fine.

One thing was disturbing -- the installer moved the 622 quite a bit WHILE it was plugged in (hard drive spinning). I didn't notice it until it was too late. I hope the movement didn't damage the hard drive.

I have noticed a few problems with the 622. It locked up when I changed display modes. And the picture has broken up several times while playing back a recording (from my OTA antenna).



DonLandis said:


> I didn't know about Dish repairing the 921 hard drive for Flat fee of $49. That is quite a bargain unless they just swap with another used 921. I'm sure with the upgrade deal they have plenty in stock now.


They probably swap it with a refurbished one from their vast warehouse of trade-ins. You might want to call customer service to verify the repair/replacement cost for a 921.


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## brettbolt

This 921 ghost town is losing another resident. My 921 has been bid up to $182.50 on eBay! Sure glad I didn't send it to DN for a $100 credit!

Since you can lease a 622 for $199, why keep a 921? I say sell ASAP.


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## DonLandis

Congrats on selling your 921. I picked up another hard drive for the 921 yesterday and may get some time this week to make some experimental hardware changes. I have some ideas to set up an HD swap system like I have on the HD TIVO.


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## brettbolt

DonLandis said:


> Congrats on selling your 921.


 Thanks, It went for $300 !!! I'm not kidding. Much better than DN's trade-in deal.


DonLandis said:


> I picked up another hard drive for the 921 yesterday and may get some time this week to make some experimental hardware changes. I have some ideas to set up an HD swap system like I have on the HD TIVO.


 If you can make an exact clone your existing drive, it might work -- will be interested in knowing the result.


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## DonLandis

Brett- the procedure is not simple but yes, you can using a windows machine and USB 2.0 hard drive adapters. In a windows cloning process, you probably know that the operation is a simple one step almost procedure. In this case the process is 10 steps after you partition the drive exactly according to the 921 OS requirements.. You can do it in 5 if you are really familiar with the 921 OS but as a newbie, you'd want to do the cloning process by way of the PC's hard drive as a temp storage. This will also afford you the 3rd backup for future use incase both your PVR HD fails. 

My HD swap idea failed. Here's why- I had planned on installing a mobile rack in the 921 in that lower bay but to do so will require sawing out an opening that currently does not exist in the metal case.  I'm not that motivated to make a cutout with the nibbler tool just to have an internal swap system. So, for mechanical reasons I have given up on the idea for now. I'll just be satisfied to have the formatted blank drives to swap in an external fashion like the HDTIVO is now.


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## brettbolt

Have you tried running the IDE and power cable out the back of the 921 (rather than mounting both drives inside it?)

I can't touch my 622 because its leased. Kinda wish I had bought it for $499. Oh well, after my 18 month 622 lease is up I'll just buy DN's latest and greatest PVR (assuming the TIVO lawsuit still allows them to make PVRs)


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## DonLandis

I have considered other options for cable routing and nothing seems practical for me due to physical layout of my cabinet. The HD TIVO, by contrast, worked out very well. Kind of academic anyway because the mp2 921 days are numbered anyway. That plus with add-on USB HD for the 622, the idea will be obsolete probably before the MP2 demise. 


The next generation of Dish DVR for HD may be a lesser box that is single only and no 8VSB tuner to offer it at lower cost. I have felt for awhile now that a sat DVR without 8VSB would be soon to come. Many people, including me, won't like that but they will continue to offer the 8VSB in other receivers/dvr's for those who want to pay extra for it. 

Its interesting that the HDTIVO with its two 8VSB tuners is the most robust available but unfortunately its full use is dependent on a subscription to download the guides or it won't work! OTH, the 921 will always have a use as a DVR for HD for local 8VSB because even if Dish tries to kill them off, all you have to do is never connect the sats and it is capable of working without a subscription and downloadable guides, although not very convenient. For most of the 921's life people ran them on OTA without guide data. 
With 3rd party knowledge on how to replace the hard drives when they go bad and no need for a subscription service to operate, the 921 may just be the "die hard" of the DVR's. Ironic isn't it? Of course that doesn't apply to you or many who have sold or taken the $100 bucks to unload it.


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## Bogney

DonLandis said:


> OTH, the 921 will always have a use as a DVR for HD for local 8VSB because even if Dish tries to kill them off, all you have to do is never connect the sats and it is capable of working without a subscription and downloadable guides, although not very convenient.


I was under the impression that even for OTA only, the 921 will only work for a short time without some sort of satellite signal.


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## DonLandis

Bogney-

Don't know but I could certainly run a test on that theory now than my 921 is just a backup DVR. I know it screws up on sat recordings with running just one feed, but I'm thinking no feed and just Off air antenna. May be right if it can't get past an auto check switch during a reboot. I'll have to think about that for a bit. I wonder if you could connect the sat feeds just for the reboot but pull them when it completes check switch. Then there is that issue of the card being shut down by Dish via the sat signal too. Just don't know as I've never considered it before.


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## tnsprin

tnsprin said:


> No. But my 2nd was ordered at 299 and charged at 299. Yep charged before it was sent and the 299 shows on my online bill as being used against my other monthly charges starting back in May. I am suppose to get it tomorrow. I expect, but don't know, that it will actually appear as 199 (which if so will save me some tax) and that I will receive 100 for the return for the 921. Will let everyone know what happens.


As I suspected, my 2nd ViP622 came across at 199.99 when it was finally installed on 7/5. Don't want to go through the comedy of errors between Dish and the installer which had this install scheduled every week since 7/7 (ondered on 5/15). So I would only expect $100 back for returning the 921.


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