# Pointing Question for 1000.4 Dish



## jarvantgroup (Mar 24, 2006)

Standing behind a standard dish 500, I know the signals swing in from the upper-right portion of the dish and then on the LNBs. It helps to know that when the LNB is pointing directly at a tree, but you're all clear on the right-hand side. 

Standing behind the new Dish 1000.4, are the signals still swinging in from the right side or from the left?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes from behind the dish the lnb's are (from right to left ) 61.5, 72, 77.

The signal is reflected off the dish (lens) so it is reversed to the lnb's.

All single reflector devices work like this.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

On a standard Dish 500, standing behind it, 119 comes in from your right, hits the dish, and crosses over to the left-hand LNB. 110 comes in from your left, hits the dish, and crosses over to the right-hand LNB. The arm on the dish is pointed roughly in the center between the two satellites (around 115 or so).


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

IIP said:


> On a standard Dish 500, standing behind it, 119 comes in from your right, hits the dish, and crosses over to the left-hand LNB. 110 comes in from your left, hits the dish, and crosses over to the right-hand LNB. The arm on the dish is pointed roughly in the center between the two satellites (around 115 or so).


That may be true in Cali., but on the East coast both 119 and 110 come from the right side of the Dish 500, as jarvantgroup indicated. I don't know about the 1000.4, I have not installed one yet


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> That may be true in Cali., but on the East coast both 119 and 110 come from the right side of the Dish 500, as jarvantgroup indicated. I don't know about the 1000.4, I have not installed one yet


I would have to check to be sure, but i'm pretty sure IIP is right...if you had a dish 300 pointed at 110, and another pointed at 119, and you stuck a 500 pointing for both, it would pretty much be splitting the difference between the two....the signals come in from either side, not both from the right.


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## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

What's a 1000.4?


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Raymie said:


> What's a 1000.4?


New dish for the Eastern Arc.


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## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

Ah. I don't know if BobaBird has a 1000.4 page yet on the EKB.


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

puckwithahalo said:


> I would have to check to be sure, but i'm pretty sure IIP is right...if you had a dish 300 pointed at 110, and another pointed at 119, and you stuck a 500 pointing for both, it would pretty much be splitting the difference between the two....the signals come in from either side, not both from the right.


If you in the Western states, say Nevada, your analogy would be dead on. But if you did that here in the East, the LNB arm would be roughly point at 101... to the left of both sats.

Which doesn't help when you do an install for a know-it-all customer who insists that Direct and Dish are the same company and use the same sats.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Details on the Dish 1000.4 are at http://www.dishuser.org/easternarc.php . All the early info referred to it as the Eastern Arc dish before Dish started calling it a 1000.4. I'll check later to make sure there's a link from http://www.dishuser.org/Dish1000.php .


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## jarvantgroup (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks for the responses. But I'm still assuming that if standing behind the dish (On the East Coast) 119 beams in farthest from the right hand side of the dish, and then 110 will beam in 9 degrees to the left of 119. So is it safe to assume since the 1000.4 swings towards the Eastern Arc, that standing behind the dish, 77W beams in farthest from the right hand side of the dish, then 72.7W 5+/- degrees to the left and then 61.5? Or coming from the Eastern Arc, will those figures be reversed, maybe beaming in from the left hand side of the dish? From my area, the skew on a Dish 500 is 128. On a 1000.4 it is 79. So I assume since it is skewed on the lower side of the 90 degree tilt, maybe everything is beaming from the left hand side of the dish. It all new to everyone, so any input, especially input from the field would be appreciated.


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

just for our birdog posse:

_posted 8/25/2008 - Files for the new DishNetWork Eastern Arc satellites at 72.7 and 77 are not yet available.
ETA for the 72.7 file is by August 30, 2008. ETA for 77 file is by September 5, 2008.
NOTE - the Dishnetwork 61.5 file will also lock when dish is pointed to 72.7_


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> If you in the Western states, say Nevada, your analogy would be dead on. But if you did that here in the East, the LNB arm would be roughly point at 101... to the left of both sats.


in kissimmee, fl...

if you point a dish 300 at 119 - azimuth is 241
if you point a dish 300 at 110 - azimuth is 232

both are pointing directly at the satellite

if you point a dish 500 at both - azimuth is 236

pointing in between the two signals....one from each side.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Some of you guys are talking two different languages.

In the east a Dish 1000, 1000.2, etc. will always have the signal coming from the west toward it.

Around Arizona the dish will be pointed almost due south and signals come from slightly east (110) and slightly west (129).

When the dish is rotated around to receive the signal (viewing from behind the dish looking at the lnb) the 129 signal will ALWAYS come in from the right and hit the left lnb and 110 will ALWAYS come in from the left and hit the right lnb.

If it does not you get no signal, it misses your lnb.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

that's what i'm trying to say


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## RickDee (May 23, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Yes from behind the dish the lnb's are (from right to left ) 61.5, 72, 77.
> 
> The signal is reflected off the dish (lens) so it is reversed to the lnb's.
> 
> All single reflector devices work like this.


I think you may have your LNBs reversed. From behind the dish, looking up in the sky toward the satellites, the LNBs are 72.7°, 77°, and 61.5°. The satellites would be at 61.5°, 77°, and 72.7°.

See EA_JOB_AID.pdf at http://www.satelliteguys.us/1488366-post106.html


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

puckwithahalo said:


> in kissimmee, fl...
> 
> if you point a dish 300 at 119 - azimuth is 241
> if you point a dish 300 at 110 - azimuth is 232
> ...


That would be correct if the skew was set to 90 degrees, but in Kissimmee the skew is 135. (I had to look that up)

The LNB arm would be pointed at azimuth 220 (give or take). There's no way the signals can "crossover" so that each one comes from each side of the dish. In this case both 110 and 119 come from the right side.


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## Orange Man (Oct 9, 2003)

We ended up the new 1000.4 yesterday. We just cannot get 129 so the installer and his supervisor installed the 1000.4. He said they just came out and it was his first. I'm now on 72.7 and 61.5. From what they said 77 was up but not active (?). We've got everything we had on 110 & 119 and now more and all is fine.


Kenny J
Nashville TN


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

chainblu said:


> That would be correct if the skew was set to 90 degrees, but in Kissimmee the skew is 135. (I had to look that up)
> 
> The LNB arm would be pointed at azimuth 220 (give or take). There's no way the signals can "crossover" so that each one comes from each side of the dish. In this case both 110 and 119 come from the right side.


You are 100% incorrect. If you bothered to look up the skew for Kissimmee, why on earth didn't you look at the Az value while you were there and find it is the 236 value posted, not the 220 value you made up in your head. The Skew has nothing at all to do with the Az of the arm.

EVERYWHERE in the county, the arm of a 500 points between the Az value for a 300 at 110º and the Az value for a 300 at 119º. Pick your zip code or any other zip code you want, enter it into a receiver, select a 300 dish and write down the Az value for 110 and the Az value for 119. Add them together and divide by two. Compare that value to the Az shown for a 500 and you will see the arm points directly between the two sats. The Elevation for the 500 is also the average of the two El values for pointing a 300 at 110 and 119.

Put 34741 into a receiver and select a 500. It says the Az it 236, between 110 and 119 Az values using a single sat dish. The arm does NOT point to the side of both birds, it aims between them. EVERYWHERE. Skew has nothing at all to do with it.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

what CABill said.


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## simulated (Jun 6, 2006)

Orange Man said:


> We ended up the new 1000.4 yesterday. We just cannot get 129 so the installer and his supervisor installed the 1000.4. He said they just came out and it was his first. I'm now on 72.7 and 61.5. From what they said 77 was up but not active (?). We've got everything we had on 110 & 119 and now more and all is fine.
> 
> Kenny J
> Nashville TN


currently echo 4 is at 77w, roughly pointed at mexico, and some of florida, dish is waiting on FCC approval to move echo 8 over to 77w, echo 8 will serve both the USA and mexico.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

RickDee said:


> I think you may have your LNBs reversed. From behind the dish, looking up in the sky toward the satellites, the LNBs are 72.7°, 77°, and 61.5°. The satellites would be at 61.5°, 77°, and 72.7°.
> 
> See EA_JOB_AID.pdf at http://www.satelliteguys.us/1488366-post106.html


Like I said, RIGHT to LEFT the lnb's are 61.5, 72.7 and 77, just like on page 2 of the pdf file.

77 cannot EVER be between 72.7 and 61.5


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## RickDee (May 23, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Like I said, RIGHT to LEFT the lnb's are 61.5, 72.7 and 77, just like on page 2 of the pdf file.
> 
> 77 cannot EVER be between 72.7 and 61.5


So you did. I misread it the first time. And, you're also correct that 77 cannot be in the center. I mistyped that one.

Thanks for the correction!


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

puckwithahalo said:


> what CABill said.


Both you and CaBill are mistaken. Once you crank in a certain amount of skew on a Dish 500, it becomes mechanically impossibe to 'split' the 119/110 so they come in from either side of the dish. By the time you dial in 135 degrees (re: Kissimmee) both signals HAVE to come in from one side or the other. In this case, since the skew is higher than 90 the signals come down from the right. Thus the LNB arm will be pointed several degrees to the left of the 110 az, not "down the middle".


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

They may come from the same side of the pole, but with the dish skewed, they still come from opposite sides of the dish.

No matter what the skew, if the signal does not come in to the lnb's at the same angle regardless of location, you get no signal.

On a D500, 119 comes from the right to the left lnb and 110 comes from the left to the right lnb. Anything different requires you to bend the radio waves.

On a D1000, 129 comes in from the right to the left lnb, 119 comes in over the top lf the lnb to the center lnb and 110 comes in from the left to the right lnb.

Skewing the dish does not change the angle at which the signal comes to the dish, it only matches it to reality.


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Skewing the dish does not change the angle at which the signal comes to the dish, it only matches it to reality.


Absolutely.

It does change the angle of the signals after they hit the dish, though. With the dish skewed to 135 degrees, both 119 and 110 will hit the pan somewhat to the right of the LNB and reflect into the LNB. (Like the OP was trying to describe)

The point I was trying to make that the LNB arm itself does not always point 'between' the two sats.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> Skewing the dish does not change the angle at which the signal comes to the dish, it only matches it to reality.


Although it may be pointless to try to achieve reality here, the only thing I might add is that the skew alters the relative elevation of the 2 (D500) or 3 (D1000) sats to match reality. The difference between the elevations (using a D300 value) determines how much skew is needed for a D500 or D1000, and which direction to skew of course.

chainblu - please post your zipcode where the D500 arm doesn't point to the midpoint of the side sats. The D1000 Az value is the same as a D300 to 119, but it still picks up 110 signals from the east of the arm and 129 signals from the west of the arm - even with 135º skew.

You set the Skew and El to fixed values and then rotate Az to sight in. Why would DISH list incorrect Az values to aim at for Kissimmee in every receiver they make and every table they publish?


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

CaBill, when you joined this discussion I knew you would be a tough sale because you are in CA. I didn't look up the skew setting for a D500 in Sacramento, but I would guess it would be relatively close to 90..maybe 85? You really are not playing with much skew. Try this sometime, line up a D500 with 90 degrees skew, then change the skew to 135. I think you will be surprised how much you have to swing the LNB arm out to line up the signal again.

Here in the East, I consider the D500 Az values as merely "look" angles, just to make sure I have LOS. Then I sight in 119 and 110 on their own (assuming I'm not in the middle of a hay field). The LNB arm always points more to the South (or left) of the 110 Az line. You can choose not to believe me, but I have lined up thousands of D500's and they all do this. If you could somehow transport yourself to FL I would be glad to show you firsthand.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Were I to change my skew to 135, I'd never be able to line up my signal again no matter what I did to Az and El. But I know the LNB arm would then be pointing way toward the east of what it was before the skew was rotated. The LNB arm doesn't indicate "where the dish is aimed" - it is 22º above the arm. I'm the other side of 90º skew from you, but at 90º, the 22º doesn't change the Az of the arm. Rotated to 135º skew (both the arm and the dish), 22º "above" the arm would still need to point to the Az of the midpoint on a D500, or directly toward 119 on a D1000. You continue to aim the dish at the Az of 226º, but the arm doesn't necessarily go at that angle. If all you are saying is that the arm doesn't point to the compass heading of 226º, I get that. Having both (or all 3) sats to one side of the arm is quite likely for you. But that isn't where you are aiming the dish. You aim it directly at the middle of 110 and 119. Your skew or mine, any signal coming from 110 will be coming from the east of where you aim, and be reflected to the westernmost LNB (anywhere it hits the dish).

For you, both sats are to the right of where the arm is pointing - I do finally get what you were saying. But "both 119 and 110 come from the right side of the Dish 500" isn't correct. Any signal from 110 (whether it hits the "left or right side" of the dish) is arriving from the east of where you are really aiming and gets reflected to the "right" LNB. Any signal from 119 arrives from the west of where the D500 aims and regardless of where it hits the dish will be reflected to the easternmost LNB.

I've installed zero 1000.4 and probably only one D500, but the 1000.4 should just be non-symmetric placement of the LNBs. The dish just creates a focal arc so all you need is to make the LNB mount so that 61.5 to 72 is like twice the distance from 72 to 77. I've never seen a 1000.4 of course, but in FL the skew should be less than 90º. The Elevation is increasing from 61.5 to 72 to 77 there, instead of decreasing from 110 to 119. That would make them quite hard to "all be to the right".

Appologies for saying the LNB arm would point to the listed Az value. That is a CA centric (90º ish skew) error. If you rest a 22º triangle on top of the LNB arm, you get what I SHOULD have been saying.


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