# 622 OTA Tuner Became Crappy ?



## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Searched a bit but didn't see this specifically addressed. Sorry if I missed it.

About 6 or 7 weeks ago our OTA reception became quite flaky after being very stable for well over a year, first with a 942 then with the 622. I tried a higher mast, better antenna, etc. I was able to get the signal a bit more stable but not like it was before. Then I tried connecting the LG LST-4200A that was gathering dust in the closet. It had worked quite well for us before we got Dish, good reception on all of the major L.A. market channels without dropout except an occasional glitch on channel 5 (KTLA). It worked exactly as it had the last time we used it more than a year ago.

Has the OTA tuner on our 622 gone bonkers? Is it inferior to the LG at rejecting multipath? I ask that because the 622 behaves as if it is struggling with multipath (signal jumping from 100 down to 0 and back every 30 or 40 seconds).

Shall I try to get E* to send out a replacement 622?


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

Mine has behaved the same way (ever since the 4.x software releases began).


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

When I've seen this signal jumping from 100 to 0 and back and forth, it was limited to one station and it was this stations problem. Are you seeing this on all of your OTA stations?


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

This is all software related . They introduced many changes in the software to fix the ota problems for some areas and screwed up other areas in the process.


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

Well.....my OTA reception has been terrible lately....there have even been a couple of days where I couldn't get any OTA reception on any station. No matter what I did with the antenna. Hope they can fix this....I'm currently on L4.05.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I am in SoCal so I should be getting the same stations as the OP. For my installation, i have not seen any drop in performance of either of my OTA programs. I have a Channel Master antenna (4228 I believe) and if I recall it is a directional type antenna and I would say it is by no means ideally situated. 

I am in North OC so I am about 40 miles from Wilson (Give or take 10 miles). It is possible that the changes made in the last updates made the 622 more sensitive to multi-pathing and if you have a omni directional antenna swapping with a directional antenna might improve the situation.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> I am in SoCal so I should be getting the same stations as the OP. For my installation, i have not seen any drop in performance of either of my OTA programs. I have a Channel Master antenna (4228 I believe) and if I recall it is a directional type antenna and I would say it is by no means ideally situated.
> 
> I am in North OC so I am about 40 miles from Wilson (Give or take 10 miles). It is possible that the changes made in the last updates made the 622 more sensitive to multi-pathing and if you have a omni directional antenna swapping with a directional antenna might improve the situation.


I am in Moorpark (east Ventura County next to Simi Valley) about 47 miles from Mt. Wilson.

For well over a year our CM 4228 worked beautifully. To answer a previous question, it doesn't matter which channel we're viewing. The signal will quickly bounce from the highest it can be for a particular channel (100 for some, lower for others) to zero. Sometimes it happens several times per minute, sometimes not as often. At first I thought it was just a fluke but after the same behavior for two weeks straight I decided it wasn't going to go away.

I asked around and ultimately doubled the mast height to 20' and installed a new, highly directional, Antenna's Direct 91XG. With a great deal of tweaking angles, heights and whatnot, I've got it where the dropouts are almost tolerable for ME, not the wife. She has made it clear that she won't watch it this way and I can't really blame her.

Has anyone been able to get E* to roll back their 622 firmware?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

E* will not roll the firmware back on an individual basis. What do you mean that it was first with the 942 and then the 622? I am confused by that statement and there might be more clues there as to what you are seeing. I am not aware of 942 folks recently seeing a change in OTA performance, but I have not been watching that forum closely. 

Is your OTA going through any power conditioner or surge protector. If so try by passing it and see if things improve. 

The fact you are seeing this on all channels rules out a station issue and my guess is that you are still fighting something else. When you did your LG test. Did you use the exact same cable that the 622 is currently connected to?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

The 211 and the 622 are both seeing the same OTA dropout issue, usually at 100% signal. Only started with the L3.45 (on the 211) and L4.0? (on the 622) firmware. Not every channel, not every market. If you use the TV set's ATSC tuner, you don't have the problem. There are some other threads here discussing this issue.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

I've had some issues, but I had some issues with the 921 previously too (Fox in boston.)

What I find annoying is the message box informing me of lost data EVERY time it drops out. "Yeah yeah, I know... lost data. quit making me hit ok."


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

By saying we had good reception with the 942, then also with the 622 that was meant to mean that before we replaced the 942 with the 622 we had good reception with it. I never even had to be all that careful with aiming the CM 4228. The only problem I had at the very beginning was that the antenna was just slightly too low and after raising it up about two feet the signal strength numbers improved along with the reception. Like I said before, the reception has been stellar on every channel except KTLA (5) for over a year until 6 or 7 weeks ago.

When testing with the LG I left everything as it was and just put it in place of the 622. The cable is about a 50' straight shot from antenna to 622 with nothing in between.

As a side note, after getting the higher mast and raising the antenna all the way to the top I was trying all sorts of horizontal and vertical angles. At one point the antenna was aiming directly at San Diego. I could receive channels 8, 10 and 15 from there without a single dropout (at least for one night). That's about 150 miles from here.

Another thing that occasionally happens now that never did before is the message will come up saying the signal has been lost and the only way to clear the message and restore the picture is to reboot the 622.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Called customer support and after explaining to the rep that the LG tuner still works as well as ever he said he would go ahead and send out another 622.

I guess it can't hurt to try a different one.

One thing he said as he was looking at his computer screen was that he did not see any indication of the latest firmware causing any OTA reception problems. He went on to say that if it were a problem they would have gotten "bombed" with phone calls. This would seem to contradict what others have been saying. Am I just part of a very small minority of unlucky 622 owners? If so, maybe the new one could work better? Perhaps the problem is related to a certain batch of 622's that don't function well with the latest firmware?


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

dublus said:


> Called customer support and after explaining to the rep that the LG tuner still works as well as ever he said he would go ahead and send out another 622.
> 
> I guess it can't hurt to try a different one.
> 
> One thing he said as he was looking at his computer screen was that he did not see any indication of the latest firmware causing any OTA reception problems. He went on to say that if it were a problem they would have gotten "bombed" with phone calls. This would seem to contradict what others have been saying. Am I just part of a very small minority of unlucky 622 owners? If so, maybe the new one could work better? Perhaps the problem is related to a certain batch of 622's that don't function well with the latest firmware?


Strange on Sunday I got the L4.05 update and now I get over 25 OTA channels and they all are locked in correctly---I no longer have the need to use my TV bulid in turner.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well given the fact I am pointing at the same Mountain and I am not having any issues I would suspect this issue is definitely localized. Before you had this issue, what type of signal strength were you getting? It is possible that you might be running into the issue Mikey mentioned but given your distance and what I am seeing on my end I ruled out the issue that can happen with a strong signal. 

Would be interested if it fixes the issue, but I have my doubts. So you never had this issue with your 942 correct? 

have your tried an attuentor to see if adjusting helps? (Sure you have but figured I would through that out).


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Yep, tried 6dB and 10dB attenuators. Aslo a different cable run. The 942 was rock solid once I raised the antenna up a couple feet shortly after receiving it (the 942). Also tried a CM 7777 pre-amp. I will probably put it to use once I solve this problem and get additional OTA receivers.

These are the numbers I typically get (from memory):

2 (CBS) - 95 to 100
4 (NBC) - 75 to 85
5 (KTLA) - 62 to 82 (this is the channel that has never been completely stable but was actually very watchable)
7 (ABC) - 80 to 100 (this one varies the most depending on antenna height)
9 (KCAL) - 95 to 100
11 (FOX) - 70 to 80
13 (KCOP) - 70 to 80

I won't list the rest because I'm not sure I remember them but you get the idea. The signal strength has not really changed much, just a little higher with the new antenna and quite a bit higher if I raise it up to the top of the new mast. I put the old mast back because the taller one didn't help.

I know it's a long shot that the new receiver will make any difference but it's just about all there is left to try.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

mikeyinokc said:


> Well.....my OTA reception has been terrible lately....there have even been a couple of days where I couldn't get any OTA reception on any station. No matter what I did with the antenna. Hope they can fix this....I'm currently on L4.05.


Same here since L4.05. I have to do a front panel reset every day or two to get my OTA channels back. Are you able to do a rescan or reset to get them back?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Be interested to hear if the new 622 makes a difference. My guess is that the change in the OTA code is effected by your location/conditions. I am running the same code looking at the same Mt Wilson and I am not seeing what you are seeing.... Yep.. that is what I have always said about OTA.. bit science bit art..... 

Well I have ran out of suggestions... Looks like you have done the basic trouble shooting... I wonder is the SD signals are interfering.. Perhaps your installation is too good? Well I guess the next step is to see if the replacement 622 helps..


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

You have pretty much spoken the thoughts that bounce in my head.

After trying multiple antennas, multiple cables, multiple antenna heights/angles the only thing that got things back to normal was a different tuner (which behaved EXACTLY as it did before) so my hopes are resting with the new 622. There's not much else left to try. If there was anything else I would certainly be game to give it a whirl. I considered the possibility that the setup could be "too good" and tried several things to make it "less good" like lowering the antenna down. At one point it was just laying on my roof. I tried attenuators, attenuators with splitters, you name it.

If the new 622 doesn't work out and the LG tuner continues to function as it always has, do I have a "breach of contract"? I have been very pleased with Dish up until this trouble started but if it is "unsolvable" I would want to have the freedom to pursue other avenues. I think I've got several months remaining on my commitment to Dish. Of course that commitment was made under service performance circumstances that may no longer exist.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

OK, so how's this for definitive.

A friend of mine brought over his 942 today after work and, wouldn't you know it, not a single dropout on any of the major channels. Even channel 5 which had occasional glitches with the 4228. In fact, out of the 50 channels that the digital scan came up with, only KLCS and a Spanish channel (don't remember) had dropouts. Granted, I didn't spend an enormous amount of time on each channel but I've gotten to the point where I almost don't need to.

What was most notable was the fact that not once during the entire time did the signal strength bounce down to 0 like the 622 does on ALL channels.

Immediately after this test I reconnected the 622 and it returned to its ornery self.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

I have definitely noticed a change. When I first got Dish, I was amazed that my 622 did a better job of picking up my OTAs than the built in tuner on my JVC. But now I'm having similar problems to thos posted here. The signal strength will show in the 80s and then all of a sudden drop to 0 and I have to wait awhile for the signal to be reacquired. This is happening on my local ABC affilitate which until recently was always my best signal.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Well I've got to get to bed but I wanted to report back on the 622 receiver we got today as an exchange for the one that seemed to be the source of our reception problems.

One word... WOW! What a difference. No dropouts on any of the major channels. For some strange reason 5.1 (KTLA) is all the way up to 100, as well as 2.1, 7.1, and 9.1. Nothing is below 80 except for KBEH and some other channel we never watch.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well glad to hear it dublus. Seems your Tuner went south or perhaps the boxes differ slightly. Glad to hear you are back up and running.


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## jbjsm (May 15, 2005)

dublus said:


> OK, so how's this for definitive.
> 
> A friend of mine brought over his 942 today after work and, wouldn't you know it, not a single dropout on any of the major channels. Even channel 5 which had occasional glitches with the 4228. In fact, out of the 50 channels that the digital scan came up with, only KLCS and a Spanish channel (don't remember) had dropouts. Granted, I didn't spend an enormous amount of time on each channel but I've gotten to the point where I almost don't need to.
> 
> ...


I've been having the same problem here in Los Angeles with my 622 and 211. I replaced the 211 with another 622 two weeks ago hoping it would solve the problem. Unfortuneatly it hasn't. Both of my 622's suffer the same intermitent signal loss on OTA channels. Signal strength goes from 100 to zero. Channel KLCS is no longer receivable at all. Each 622 is connected to a separate omnidirectional outdoor antenna. The ATSC tuners in my PC and TV's (total of 6 tuners) which share the same two antennas are able to receive all channels without a problem. OTA reception had been perfect before the L4.03 release. I'm now on 4.05 and the issue is worse. The "new" 622 did not solve the problem.


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## cdub998 (Aug 16, 2006)

Yeah my 622 does the same thing. I had a 211 and it was rock solid with all my signals being between 90-100. With the 622 I get dropouts a lot. It is frustrating. I think I'll call CS tonight.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

It wouldn't surprise me if the problems you are both experiencing are in your 622's as that is clearly where our reception troubles were.

When I spoke with the CR at Dish, once I told him I had other tuners that worked fine he was more than happy to send out another 622 to at least explore the possibility. That was a Monday and the thing arrived on Wednesday - not bad. What surprised me, and one of the biggest reasons he was hesitant to believe my diagnosis, was that he said he hadn't heard that they were receiving an extraordinary number of calls on this specific problem. If that is truly the case I would recommend that both of you and anyone else with the same symptom call and let them know.


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