# What is needed to go past 8 tuners after MRV Upgrade



## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

We had the DECA install done almost 2 weeks ago & at the time, we were using 7 tuners so they installed a new Slimline dish with a SWMLNB. I want to add another DVR & realize that means some kind of a change. The first CSR I talked to insisted that I didn't need anything else -- that the SWM meant 8 RECEIVERS not 8 TUNERS. The second CSR was in Tech Support & she said I needed another "wireless" switch. "Wireless" because it needs only one wire instead of two . So, I'm asking y'all, the people that I know have the knowledge -- what do I need. I thought the SWMLNB was limited to 8 tuners so I would need a SWM16 switch but I don't know what whether there would need to be a change to the LNB. Is there no other way than a SWM16 at this point to get more than 8 tuners based on what I currently have (or regardless of what I currently have).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

You're right, you're currently limited to 8-tuners. Swapping your SWiM LNB for a standard 3-LNB connected to a SWiM-16 will do it.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> A standard triple-LNB connected to a SWiM-16 will do it.


Now I'm going to show my ignorance -- is the SWMLNB the same as a triple-LNB or would the installer have to change out the LNB I have now. Not that I care -- I just want to make sure I know what the guy needs when he comes so I can make sure he has it before he starts.

_ You posted again before I had a chance to ask . Thanks! _


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

HDJulie said:


> Now I'm going to show my ignorance -- is the SWMLNB the same as a triple-LNB or would the installer have to change out the LNB I have now. Not that I care -- I just want to make sure I know what the guy needs when he comes so I can make sure he has it before he starts.
> 
> _ You posted again before I had a chance to ask . Thanks! _


Different LNB's. You'd need to swap it out to a non-SWM LNB to use the SWM-16.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Different LNB's. You'd need to swap it out to a non-SWM LNB to use the SWM-16.


Ya. If it had 4 cables coming from it, I believe you could cascade a SWiM-16 from it. Since the SWiM LNB only has 1 cable coming out, it needs to be swapped.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

I wonder how long it will take for D* to conclude they should have a 16 tuner SWM LNB using 2 coaxes?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> I wonder how long it will take for D* to conclude they should have a 16 tuner SWM LNB using 2 coaxes?


Nice.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> I wonder how long it will take for D* to conclude they should have a 16 tuner SWM LNB using 2 coaxes?


Fair question. 
I wonder how heavy that would be as it hangs off the support arm?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> I wonder how long it will take for D* to conclude they should have a 16 tuner SWM LNB using 2 coaxes?


Probably two much hardware to squeeze in.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Probably two much hardware to squeeze in.


Not necessarily .. the head could still be wide like an SL5 but only make an SL3 version of it. I'd hope that either coax coming down the line could handle power though so that that'd easier from an installation perspective.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I wonder how hot a 16 can be allowed to get, tho, outdoors in places like AZ or NM? :scratchin I've measured up to 130° indoors, in 80° ambient temperature.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Check this image out:









Notice the four lines out from the DISH? The SWiM-LNB merges the switch into the DISH LNB so the one line coming out will go into a SWiM splitter. You can still add a DVR now if you'd like and run it in single-tuner mode. But if you want to have the full effect, with 9 tuners, you need 3 more lines from the dish and a SWiM-16 in the location of your current splitter (most likely).


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm still shaking my head at "Tech Supports" answer..........


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> I'm still shaking my head at "Tech Supports" answer..........


The scary thing is, this isn't a 2-week old MRV question, it's a multi-year old SWM question. :bang


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah .. I'm not exactly sure how a wireless switch plays into SWiM at all. :scratchin


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Armed with the info from here, I called to order another HDDVR for the $99 that was listed on the website with the lovely hearts. This CSR was more informed & she knew I would need a SWM-16. She says she noted it on the order (along with my preference for an HR24 & we both had a laugh about the good that would do) but said she did not show what kind of LNB I have so I'm hoping the installer will come prepared. He'll call before he heads this way I'm sure & I'll see what he's got. The installer last week was taken completely by surprise that we needed a dish swap out, SWMLNB, AND the DECA units. He did a great job, though. I actually hope to get him again. They have an 8 - 12 tomorrow available so this will happen quick. Thanks all for your information.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

At least the dish can stay this time  .. That's often the tricky part. If your current SWiM splitter is in a good spot then it'll be a simple matter of 3 more coax lines from LNB to splitter location, new LNB and SWiM-16 in place of the splitter (sorta) .. plus connecting everything up correctly.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

The current splitter is in the attic close to the entrance, mounted on a beam, & very easy to get to. It should not be a difficult install so we'll see if fate decides to have some fun & throw a wrench in the works 
;-).


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

The installer shows up a few minutes ago. I was hoping he would call first so I could verify he had a SWM-16. He was able to find us using GPS on his phone & he just shows up. When he gets out, I immediately ask, do you have a SWM-16. He says no. Even though the order SAID we would need a SWM-16, he saw on our account that we already had 9 tuners so he figured we already had one. He can get one at his office, so okay fine. I then say, you realize we have a SWMLNB & you'll need to change that out as well. He says no. He says the SWM-16 is new & can work with the SWMLNB. I say, ARE YOU SURE. Yes, yes, he's sure. He's a nice young guy & is very amendable to my questions. I then ask what box he has for me. Hallelujah, it's an HR24. He knows he has to get a SWM-16 & says he'll just run to the office. I say -- that's cool, you do realize it will take you over an hour? He checks his GPS. Hmm. So he calls someone & while they are talking I hear him ask about the SWMLNB & then say oh, I didn't know that & no, I don't have an LNB or something. Anyway, he was going to try to get someone to meet him halfway but he was still on the phone when he left so I'm thinking I've got another hour before he gets back. I also made very clear that one of those HR24's was MINE. . I'll tip him well to help recover some of his time & gas money.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> At least the dish can stay this time  .. That's often the tricky part. If your current SWiM splitter is in a good spot then it'll be a simple matter of 3 more coax lines from LNB to splitter location, new LNB and SWiM-16 in place of the splitter (sorta) .. plus connecting everything up correctly.


At least some installers are thinking ahead. My upgrade only needed the SWiM LNB but the installer left all 4 coax lines that were originally coming from the original LNB to the multiswitch in case I ordered more DVR's and had to switch back to the standard LNB. This is the same guy that was done in less than an hour (new LNB, splitter and DECA's - discounting the 40+ minutes on the phone because D* had trouble authorizing 'whole house MRV'). Based on an extensive sample of one.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Is there a first look for the SWM-16? I'm going to look at the home install pics that people posted but if anyone can post a link to a diagram of a SWM-16, I'd appreciate it. The guy is not totally sure what plugs in where.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

HDJulie said:


> Is there a first look for the SWM-16? I'm going to look at the home install pics that people posted but if anyone can post a link to a diagram of a SWM-16, I'd appreciate it. The guy is not totally sure what plugs in where.


Yes. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172052


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HDJulie said:


> Is there a first look for the SWM-16? I'm going to look at the home install pics that people posted but if anyone can post a link to a diagram of a SWM-16, I'd appreciate it. The guy is not totally sure what plugs in where.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)




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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks! I found that in your post in the Home Install Images thread, *VOS* but am glad to know from you & *Steve* that it is correct. He also had someone call him back who had installed one before. He originally thought we still needed the PI that was installed two weeks ago, another PI for the second splitter, AND a PI for the SWM-16. He now knows he only needs the one PI .


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Added a hr24 since my deca install last week and found the hard way. 3 hddvr 1 sddvr and single h23. Tried to move sddvr to other room and no satellite signal.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> Added a hr24 since my deca install last week and found the hard way. 3 hddvr 1 sddvr and single h23. Tried to move sddvr to other room and no satellite signal.


Yeah, you'd need to set one DVR to single tuner mode.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Installer coming this week to add another 8-way switch. At least that's what tech support told me.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> Installer coming this week to add another 8-way switch. At least that's what tech support told me.


Tell them that won't work. SWM 16 is required.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Figured since sddvr not on deca two 8 way switches would work.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dondude32 said:


> Figured since sddvr not on deca two 8 way switches would work.


It would "but" it also limits you to not being able to move beyond what you have.
If you have a SWM8 now, then you could move the SDDVR to two of the legacy ports and have them all working now.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Well, he's gone, everything works, & we've got a new HR24. Not bad for $99 & an extra 2 weeks on my pevious 2-year commitment .


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Down the road if I order another hddvr will they include swm16?


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

If you get the DVR from D* directly then you can call & they will schedule the install & can note that you need a SWM-16 & the install will be free. I don't know if they do a free install if you order the DVR online from a retailer. I don't know why it would be any different but the impression I got from the CSR I spoke with the first time was that installation for a DVR ordered elsewhere would not be free.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

HDJulie said:


> If you get the DVR from D* directly then you can call & they will schedule the install & can note that you need a SWM-16 & the install will be free. I don't know if they do a free install if you order the DVR online from a retailer. I don't know why it would be any different but the impression I got from the CSR I spoke with the first time was that installation for a DVR ordered elsewhere would not be free.


What did they hook up for you? swm16?


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

They had to replace the SWMLNB with a regular LNB, install the SWM-16, install another SWM splitter (there was already one from the previous install), & replace the 21 Volt PI with a 29 Volt PI.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

I notice that the 2 8 way splitters have a red looking port (http://www.satpro.tv/swm-16.aspx) what is that one for?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> I notice that the 2 8 way splitters have a red looking port (http://www.satpro.tv/swm-16.aspx) what is that one for?


If you don't power the SWiM-16 with the separate connector, then you use the "red" ports to connect the PI, since these are the power passing ports.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> If you don't power the SWiM-16 *with the separate connector*, then you use the "red" ports to connect the PI, since these are the power passing ports.


Seems like such a straight forward answer VOS but I'm still learning about this setup, I'm not sure what that really means. You are saying that no matter what I need the PI? but what does "separate connector" mean?

And this setup will allow me to use just 1 coax to each DVR?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> Seems like such a straight forward answer VOS but I'm still learning about this setup, I'm not sure what that really means. You are saying that no matter what I need the PI? but what does "separate connector" mean?
> 
> And this setup will allow me to use just 1 coax to each DVR?












You can connect the PI like this or use the connector just above it and go through the splitter, but you must use a PI.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

So I see the splitters still say 8 "tuners", does that mean I still need 2 coax cables to each DVR?

What about BBC's, will I still need those?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> So I see the splitters still say 8 "tuners", does that mean I still need 2 coax cables to each DVR?
> 
> What about BBC's, will I still need those?


It's really the two lines, not the splitters that the 8 tuners comment refers to. Using two 8-way splitters there is just one way of doing it. Another way could be a 4-way splitter on one leg, with a DVR on each output (= 8 tuners) and a direct connection to another receiver on the other leg.

Only one line to each receiver/DVR is needed. BBCs are not needed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> So I see the splitters still say 8 "tuners", does that mean I still need 2 coax cables to each DVR?
> 
> What about BBC's, will I still need those?


SWiM 101:
SWiM stands for single wire multi-switch
This means one coax can be split to feed eight tunes and only one coax is needed to a DVR for both tuners.
SWiM converts the SAT signals to 8 channels and doesn't/can't use BBCs


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

I plan on the MRV upgrade and already had a tech come out but he showed up with no parts to do anything. I just want to make sure I am prepared so I can at least have a clue to what he's doing. The tech they sent had never done a MRV setup and the only thing I remember him saying is that "I only got 3 wrong on the test"

My current dish is a Slimline 3...I think. I already have 4 wires coming off the dish (so I think I"m good with the dish I have) and I noticed that the 4 wires go to 2 grounding blocks first then from the grounding blocks to the WB68.

I notice I do not see any grounding blocks in your diagram. Is that because the multi switch is what gets grounded?

Where would my DECA go if I had 16 tuners? Would I need 2 DECA's, one on each 8 way?


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

When they did upgrade they installed slimline 3s dish will dish be compatible with swm16?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dondude32 said:


> When they did upgrade they installed slimline 3s dish will dish be compatible with swm16?


no, swm lnb is always limited to 8 tuners.
to use swm16 you need non-swm lnb (4 outputs) to connect to the swm16 module. no different then hooking up swm8 module really.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> I plan on the MRV upgrade and already had a tech come out but he showed up with no parts to do anything. I just want to make sure I am prepared so I can at least have a clue to what he's doing. The tech they sent had never done a MRV setup and the only thing I remember him saying is that "I only got 3 wrong on the test"
> 
> My current dish is a Slimline 3...I think. I already have 4 wires coming off the dish (so I think I"m good with the dish I have) and I noticed that the 4 wires go to 2 grounding blocks first then from the grounding blocks to the WB68.
> 
> ...


The diagram is missing a grounding block, yes. It should be place between the dish & the switch and preferably outside.

For Broadband DECAs, you would only need one. Both output legs of the SWiM 16 are cross connected for DECA (not for SWiM), so anything attached to either output leg will talk to another via the DECA networking.

Each Output leg will only support 8 SWiM tuners, though. Look at the back of your DVR/Receiver and it will say either SWM 2 or SWM 1 .. Add all of these for each receiver and as long as you don't exceed 8, you can attach to the same output leg (via a SWiM Splitter as shown in diagram).

Once you're over 8 (and up to 16), you can use the second output leg.

The Broadband DECA does not count against the SWiM number at all. And you can support a total of 16 DECAs (that does include the broadband DECA).

Summary
SWiM - 16 tuners (8 tuners max per output)

DECA - 16 devices (each DVR/receivers/DECA counts as one device) across either output


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> The diagram is missing a grounding block, yes. It should be place between the dish & the switch and preferably outside.


Got it. Simple enough



> For Broadband DECAs, you would only need one. Both output legs of the SWiM 16 are cross connected for DECA (not for SWiM), so anything attached to either output leg will talk to another via the DECA networking.


Makes sense, but WHERE EXACTLY does the DECA go, before the 8 way splitter or after? I can't imagine that it goes outside, so I assume it goes after the splitter and I can put in the house. But then it seems that I would lose a port?



> Each Output leg will only support 8 SWiM tuners, though. Look at the back of your DVR/Receiver and it will say either SWM 2 or SWM 1 .. Add all of these for each receiver and as long as you don't exceed 8, you can attach to the same output leg (via a SWiM Splitter as shown in diagram).
> 
> Once you're over 9 (and up to 16), you can use the second output leg.


I have 9 tuners and plan on having 10-12. If I understand correctly I have to connect the wire to use SWM1 or SWM2 depending on which splitter the feed is coming from?

Or does it really matter. If I had 10 tuners can I just set it up to use 5 and 5 from each splitter and hook the wire to either SWM1 or SWM2?



> The Broadband DECA does not count against the SWiM number at all. And you can support a total of 16 DECAs (that does include the broadband DECA).
> 
> Summary
> SWiM - 16 tuners (8 tuners max per output)
> ...


Most of my boxes will be H24's soon enough except for 2, which will be D12's. Sorry if it seems I'm not getting this but once I can understand the setup, I will be better prepared for the inexperienced technician......


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> It would "but" it also limits you to not being able to move beyond what you have.
> If you have a SWM8 now, then you could move the SDDVR to two of the legacy ports and have them all working now.


What is the exact use of the legacy ports ? I`ve been reading and reading and I`m still not sure as to what their function is ?


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## WilsonFlyer (Jan 16, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> I wonder how long it will take for D* to conclude they should have a 16 tuner SWM LNB using 2 coaxes?


:up:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

stilen621 said:


> What is the exact use of the legacy ports ? I`ve been reading and reading and I`m still not sure as to what their function is ?


older boxes that do not work on swm (r15 example) can use the legacy outputs to maintain normal functionality.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

stilen621 said:


> What is the exact use of the legacy ports ? I`ve been reading and reading and I`m still not sure as to what their function is ?


On the SWM8, they're for SD receivers that aren't compatible with SWiM, to connect to the dish and get the Ku band. These three ports are merely a three output mini-multiswitch.
The SWiM-16 has four "legacy" ports, but these have all the bands, Ka-lo + Ku + Ka-hi, which allows these to feed another switch.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> On the SWM8, they're for SD receivers that aren't compatible with SWiM, to connect to the dish and get the Ku band. These three ports are merely a three output mini-multiswitch.
> The SWiM-16 has four "legacy" ports, but these have all the bands, Ka-lo + Ku + Ka-hi, which allows these to feed another switch.


Thanks you guys for the clarification. So no HD receivers will work when hooked to the legacy outputs correct ?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

stilen621 said:


> Thanks you guys for the clarification. So no HD receivers will work when hooked to the legacy outputs correct ?


The only HD would be the old MPEG-2 [few legacy] and any Ka-hi locals you might get.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

-Draino- said:


> Makes sense, but WHERE EXACTLY does the DECA go, before the 8 way splitter or after? I can't imagine that it goes outside, so I assume it goes after the splitter and I can put in the house. But then it seems that I would lose a port?
> 
> I have 9 tuners and plan on having 10-12. If I understand correctly I have to connect the wire to use SWM1 or SWM2 depending on which splitter the feed is coming from?
> 
> ...


You probably have two 8-way splitters .. In that case, you can feed off of one of the open ports your likely to have. If nothing is convenient, then you can simply add a two way splitter near one of your receivers and split one end off to a receiver (which will have a DECA internal or external) and the other end to your broadband DECA.

While the diagram below doesn't have as many receivers as you do, use this as another method ..


```
SWiM1/PWR [COLOR="Red"]<-[/COLOR]+-- [COLOR="Red"]<-[/COLOR]PI --+-- DECA [COLOR="Red"]<-[/COLOR]PI
            |          |     |
            |          |     +-- Ethernet to Switch
            |          |
            |          |
            |          +-- DECA ---- Sat In (SWM-2)
            |                  |
            |                  + Ethernet to HR20/21/22/23, H21/23
            |
            +-- DECA ----- Sat In (SWM-2)
            |     |
            |     +-- Ethernet to HR20/21/22/23, H21/23
            |
            |
            +-- DECA ----- Sat In (SWM-2)
            |     |
            |     +-- Ethernet to HR20/21/22/23, H21/23
            |
            |
            +-- DECA ----- Sat In (SWM-2)
                  |
                  +-- Ethernet to HR20/21/22/23, H21/23
```
This assumes a 4-way splitter is used between SWiM1/PWR & PI
A 2-way splitter is added after SWiM PI
Unused output legs require a terminator.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Tech support said they were gonna install another 8 way splitter. Installer came today said since i had whole home I had to have swm16. Didn't have one on his truck but will be back Friday with one. Fingers crossed!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Technically you don't need a SWiM-16 simply because of Whole Home DVR Service .. You do need SWiM. In your case, you need a SWiM-16 because you've exceeded 8 tuners .. AND .. you have Whole Home DVR Service. The SWiM-16 allows both outputs to communicate via DECA.

Although, a caveat in your situation .. You could put the R16-300 on two of the legacy outputs from a SWiM-8 and still be OK ...

BUT ....

The best/"right" situation is a SWiM-16 which is what is being done.


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## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

Once again doug you are correct. And thankfully my installer was more experienced and chose the same path you would have.


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