# hd program costs



## Neilh (Nov 22, 2005)

Sorry but I dont feel there is enough HD material on dish to charge $30 month, OR if you dont want HD they want to charge you $6 month for the privledge of not receiving HD.What gives


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

Neilh said:


> Sorry but I dont feel there is enough HD material on dish to charge $30 month, OR if you dont want HD they want to charge you $6 month for the privledge of not receiving HD.What gives


The HD packs cost $20 more than the equivilent AT pack. If that's not worth it to you then don't get an HD receiver. You can still get an AT pack and they won't charge you for not having HD.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

If he wants to use the OTA tuner, yes they charge you $6 to enable it if he doesn't get the pack


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

BFG said:


> If he wants to use the OTA tuner, yes they charge you $6 to enable it if he doesn't get the pack


True, but why buy a Dish HD receiver just for the OTA tuner? There are stand alone OTA tuners available that wouldn't include a monthly charge.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

IowaStateFan said:


> The HD packs cost $20 more than the equivilent AT pack. If that's not worth it to you then don't get an HD receiver. You can still get an AT pack and they won't charge you for not having HD.


You are right, the HD Pack costs $20 if you subscribe to a metalic package.

However, if you subscribe to the Stand Alone HD Pack, they gouge the customer with a 50% increase which comes to a whopping $30! That is what Neilh was referring to.

I am only paying $15 for the old HD Pack + Voom. I am grandfathered with the old plan, which you can keep with the 211/411/622 if you purchase the hardware. Since you mentioned $30 for the new HD Pack, it sounds like you own your hardware, because you can't subscribe to that if you don't own.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

jsanders said:


> I am only paying $15 for the old HD Pack + Voom. I am grandfathered with the old plan, which you can keep with the 211/411/622 if you purchase the hardware. Since you mentioned $30 for the new HD Pack, it sounds like you own your hardware, because you can't subscribe to that if you don't own.


Sorry forgot about the standalone HD pack. What's this about being grandfathered in on the old HD Pack? I have a 921 AT120+locals+HD Pack (no voom). Are you saying I can purchase the 622 and keep that plan? That's the first I've heard of that. Not sure it's worth it because for me the lease price is $99 vs purchase price of $699.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

IowaStateFan said:


> Sorry forgot about the standalone HD pack. What's this about being grandfathered in on the old HD Pack? I have a 921 AT120+locals+HD Pack (no voom). Are you saying I can purchase the 622 and keep that plan? That's the first I've heard of that. Not sure it's worth it because for me the lease price is $99 vs purchase price of $699.


You can keep that plan if you migrate from a 921 to a purchased 622.

I think that 921s are going for around $250 to $350 on EBay right now. So, if you can get a 622 for $650, the price to upgrade is going to be around $350. If you have the old HD Pack by itself, it will cost you $30/mo with all the stupid "access fees", guide data fees (local channels), and DVR fees. It will cost you about $70/mo to do the same if you lease cause you are forced to order at least bronze. When you lease you are signing the 18 month commitment. $40 x 18 months = $720, more than the cost of the receiver.

I sold my 942 for over $500, so the upgrade to the 622 didn't cost me hardly anything, and I wasn't forced to lease, I own the receiver.

In your case, the savings are not as dramatic because you have AT120. I didn't want SD programming, so the savings are very significant. For you, however, just take the cost of what the silver package + lease fee + locals + DVR fee would be and subtract that from your current bill, and you will find out what you save every month by doing the old HD Pack. See what it costs you over the cost of the course of their "commitment".


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Why are you buying a new receiver if you're sticking with the old pack?


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Neilh said:


> Sorry but I dont feel there is enough HD material on dish to charge $30 month, OR if you dont want HD they want to charge you $6 month for the privledge of not receiving HD.What gives


what you are failing to consider neil, is in those AT packages are $6 fees for admin costs basically. All packages have that base $6 usage fee, then the price of the "package" makes the $39.99 or such. so when HD is "added" to an AT, that $6 is already there. So in reality, $26 is the lowest a standalone could be, but also factor in that dish is making other profits off the AT's that would allow for HD to be less expensive, so they basically are asking for an extra $4 to cover the losses to them for not getting an AT pack.

so you aren't being ripped off 50%. You are paying $4 more than anyone else pays for HD, that's it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Neilh said:


> Sorry but I dont feel there is enough HD material on dish to charge $30 month, OR if you dont want HD they want to charge you $6 month for the privledge of not receiving HD.What gives


The answer is simple... don't get one of the new HD receivers!

Why would you want one if you (seemingly) don't want HD?


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

BFG said:


> Why are you buying a new receiver if you're sticking with the old pack?


To get rid of my pos 921


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

BFG said:


> Why are you buying a new receiver if you're sticking with the old pack?


A couple of reasons. The first one is MPEG-4 locals at no extra charge! With my OTA reception, it will mean I can record 3 network shows simultaneously!

2nd is that the MPEG-2 dvrs only have a one year shelf life left in them. Their value is going to be nil around March, 2007 when MPEG-2 HD will be turned off. May as well sell the old one now while it still has value left in it.


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## Neilh (Nov 22, 2005)

under the old plan if you paid annually you got 12 months for 11 ,so when I look at the hd with 120 channels its about $ 30 more a month for hd with IMO not much programming avail in HD, Iwill get hd already because of my movie packs plus no HD avail in my area for locals


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> what you are failing to consider neil, is in those AT packages are $6 fees for admin costs basically. All packages have that base $6 usage fee, then the price of the "package" makes the $39.99 or such. so when HD is "added" to an AT, that $6 is already there. So in reality, $26 is the lowest a standalone could be, but also factor in that dish is making other profits off the AT's that would allow for HD to be less expensive, so they basically are asking for an extra $4 to cover the losses to them for not getting an AT pack.
> 
> so you aren't being ripped off 50%. You are paying $4 more than anyone else pays for HD, that's it.


No offense, but I couldn't follow what you are saying. All packages have a $6 "access fee" built in, provided that they are *qualified programming*. The Stand Alone HD Pack (at $30/mo) is NOT qualified programming, and you have to pay that $6 extra. Oddly enough the family pack at $20/mo is qualified programming, and the $6/mo is already built in.

If you have a 622 w/o any HD programming, you have to pay $6 extra, and THEY DISABLE THE OTA TUNER TO PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING HD!

If you want the 622 with *only* local channels, this is what it will cost:
$6/mo local channels + $6/mo "access fee" + $6/mo "NO HD fee, disable OTA tuner" + $6/mo DVR fee. Total: $24/mo, locals only!

If you want the 622 stand alone HD Pack, it will cost you $30/mo + $6 access fee + $6/mo for guide data (local channels) + $6/mo DVR fee. That is $48/mo.

If you purchase the Bronze package, it will cost you $50/mo + $6/mo for guide data (local channels) + $6/mo DVR fee. In this case, the "access fee" is included in the price because the AT60 is *qualified programming*. The HD Pack costs you $20 in bronze, it costs you $30 for the Stand Alone HD Pack, which does NOT include the "access fee", you have to pay that separate.

$20/mo + 50% (gouge rate) = $30/mo.


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## kayeevee (Feb 23, 2006)

I get OTA access with 811 without any programming subscription.
I get all the local TV schedules through the dish but of course,
no other channels.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

jsanders said:


> If you have a 622 w/o any HD programming, you have to pay $6 extra, and THEY DISABLE THE OTA TUNER TO PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING HD!


Are you sure about this? It is my understanding that you can avoid the fee by having the OTA tuner disabled. Here is the wording from the terms and conditions on E*'s website:

"HD Enabling Fee: A $6.00 per month HD enabling fee will charged to your account if any model 411, ViP211 or ViP622 DVR receiver is activated and enabled with the capacity to receive high definition programming (including without limitation via an off-air antenna). *This fee will be waived on a monthly basis* if you subscribe to DishHD Bronze, DishHD Silver, DishHD Gold, DishHD Platinum, DishLATINO HD Bronze, DishLATINO HD Silver, DishLATINO HD Gold, or DishLATINO HD Platinum, or *if the capacity of all such receivers to receive high definition programming has been disabled by DISH Network at your request. *"

I read this to say you have 3 choices: 1) Pay the fee, 2)subscribe to a metal hd pack, 3)disable the OTA HD tuner.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I think you are right IowaStateFan! It sounds like you pay the $6/mo fee to enable the OTA tuner, which is waived if you subscribe to HD programming. 

I think the result is the same though. If you want to subscribe to only locals, and receive OTA, then you will have to pay an extra $6/mo. 

Thanks for the clarification!


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

kayeevee said:


> I get OTA access with 811 without any programming subscription.
> I get all the local TV schedules through the dish but of course,
> no other channels.


The 811 is a great machine in that regard. You don't have to pay to enable the OTA tuner. And the really great one is that you don't have to pay for guide data, that is you don't have to subscribe to locals to get guide data! I wish the other recievers worked that way.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

The terms of the DISH'n It Up agreement by which MOST people get their 622 differ slightly, but not substantially.

HD Enabling Fee: A non-refundable $6.00 per
month HD enabling fee will be charged to your account for each model ViP211 or ViP622 receiver for which the capacity to receive high definition
programming (including without limitation via an off-air antenna) has been enabled. This fee will be waived on a monthly basis if you subscribe to
DishHD Bronze, DishHD Silver, DishHD Gold, DishHD Platinum, DishLATINO HD Bronze, DishLATINO HD Silver, DishLATINO HD Gold, or
DishLATINO HD Platinum, or if the applicable receiver's capacity to receive high definition programming has been disabled by DISH Network at
your request. You may call us at 800-333-DISH to request that we disable the high definition functionality on your receiver(s).

It is disappointing that DISH doesn't provide that agreement, but someone did make it available at http://members.iphouse.com/bert/dishnitup18.pdf
That and the quoted DHA agreement only cover a LEASED 622. Maybe they will update the Residential Agreement to include purchased MPEG4 receivers.

The $5.98 DVR fee and the $6 HD Enabling fee can be waived by programming subscription. The $5 Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee: can be waived by connecting to the phone line. Whether the DIU $6 lease fee can be waived for the first/only receiver is still in deliberations.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

It sounds to me that the stand alone HD pack doesn't wave either the access fee or the hd fee. Does anyone actually subscribe to the standalone pack?


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

you pay the access fee but it does get the enabling fee for the tuner waived


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

well, sorry, I stand corrected  

odd they would charge the $6 no HD fee when you get the HD only pack. hmm, oh well, just means they really aren't interested in you having just HD without SD


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BFG said:


> you pay the access fee but it does get the enabling fee for the tuner waived


Is this taking into account the $29.95 HD only package E* is almost secretly offering?

That should be considered a 'base package' for the purposes of both $6 fees.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> Is this taking into account the $29.95 HD only package E* is almost secretly offering?
> 
> That should be considered a 'base package' for the purposes of both $6 fees.


I agree with you it "should" be, but apparently E* doesn't agree with us. The super secret HD standalone pack is not listed in the terms of agreement as a qualifying base package for which they will waive the HD enabling fee. As Rogue said, "they really aren't interested in you having just HD without SD."


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

sorry, I'm really only making an assumption here, that since purchasing the HD only pack has you receving dish HD channels, that your OTA tuner would be enabled for free because of it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

IowaStateFan said:


> I agree with you it "should" be, but apparently E* doesn't agree with us. The super secret HD standalone pack is not listed in the terms of agreement as a qualifying base package for which they will waive the HD enabling fee. As Rogue said, "they really aren't interested in you having just HD without SD."


Not listed could be an oversite. It's the billing system that I'm more interested in. I suspect that if one looked into it they would find both the enabling fee and 'no base package' account fee waived.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> Not listed could be an oversite. It's the billing system that I'm more interested in. I suspect that if one looked into it they would find both the enabling fee and 'no base package' account fee waived.


Could be an oversite. I hope it is. Clearly though, Dish does not seem very interested in selling the pack. It sure is hard to find on their system. I guess we'll find out if the fees are waived after people start ordering it.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Everywhere I've seen, the HD Pack Stand Alone is considered not qualifying, meaning they want to charge you the "access fee" separately.

If it was considered qualifying, I might consider doing it. I still have the legacy HD Pack + Voom, which is a better deal.

I can't imagine why the HD enabling fee would be charged for HD Pack only customers. They are subscribing to just as much HD programming as everyone else subscribing to HD!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

At $29.95 it's $10 more than everyone else is paying for DishHD versions of the AT packages ($15 more than Platinum). If that $10 doesn't include the $6 "access fee" then the package is truly overpriced.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

James Long said:


> At $29.95 it's $10 more than everyone else is paying for DishHD versions of the AT packages ($15 more than Platinum). If that $10 doesn't include the $6 "access fee" then the package is truly overpriced.


I agree completely!

Actually, I emailed the executive office about that a month ago, stating what all the charges and fees were for an HD Only subscriber. The person that contacted me back from the executive office said that all of my calculations were correct. I included the "access fee" with the Stand Alone HD Pack.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

When I leased a 211 I asked about just using that standalone HD Pack at 29.99 as my base package since I believe thats the same price as the usual requirement of AT-60 on these type promos.

I'd even accept the fact that I'd have to pay an extra $6 or whatever a month as an "access" fee because I wouldnt be subbing to a true AT package (even if the HD Pack at 29.95 is over-inflated by itself). It'll still be cheaper than HD Bronze if you didnt otherwise want any SD channels. And they'd still get the same amount of money as if I subbed to only AT-60 and paid the HD enabling fee.

Of course they wouldnt do it that way. Maybe they just need to change the name of that stand alone HD Pack to AT-HD... then they could.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

DP1 said:


> When I leased a 211 I asked about just using that standalone HD Pack at 29.99 as my base package since I believe thats the same price as the usual requirement of AT-60 on these type promos.
> 
> Of course they wouldnt do it that way. Maybe they just need to change the name of that stand alone HD Pack to AT-HD... then they could.


Now I'm really confused  If they wouldn't sell you the HD stand alone pack without an AT, why do they offer it? Doesn't HD Bronze = AT60 + HD Stand alone pack? Me thinks you need to play CSR Roulette and try again.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

IowaStateFan said:


> Now I'm really confused  If they wouldn't sell you the HD stand alone pack without an AT, why do they offer it? Doesn't HD Bronze = AT60 + HD Stand alone pack? Me thinks you need to play CSR Roulette and try again.


I'm talkin bout on a lease/upgrade deal with the 18 month commitment. Then you just flat have to sub to AT-60 as a base (or more logically HD Bronze since it's an HD receiver).

If I would have *purchased* the 211 then I'm sure I could have subbed to just the HD Pack. Or presumably when the 18 months is up one could just sub to the HD Pack alone.


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## IowaStateFan (Jan 11, 2006)

DP1 said:


> I'm talkin bout on a lease/upgrade deal with the 18 month commitment.


Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for trying to unconfuse me. At least now I'm just confused and not "really" confused :sure:


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

Well it's just like when I first purchased my original 6000 in '00. The plan back then was you get a $200.00 rebate if you commit to AT-100 for a year.

Not that they even had an HD Pack back then, but if they would have it's not like I coulda just subbed to that alone and still got the rebate.

But once my commmitment was up and then a couple years later when the HDNets and Disc HD's and ESPN HD's of the world came to be and E* eventually started offering them in the $9.99 HD Pack, I was able to sub to that alone (with the 5.00 access fee). And I did that for awhile until my 8psk module burned up. 

I had by then switched to Comcast anyway though since they were starting to offer HD with a killer deal and it didnt cost anything upfront, so I never bothered replacing the module in the 6000. Just cancelled my Dish account altogether at that time and just did without the HDNets for example.

Now I felt like checkin out Dish again though cause of some of their new HD offerings (and old stalwarts like the HDNets) that Comcast in my area doesnt have and may not have for a long time.. so thus took them up on the 211 lease/upgrade.

Not that you cared about Dans personal history.. but ya.


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