# 103(b) Signal Strength Dropping To 0???



## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

Did anyone else have problems with their reception of the new MPEG-4 channels last night?

I was switching back and forth between the Pats-Bengals game on ESPNHD (206) and the Padres-Rockies game on TBSHD (247). On two seperate occasions, the picture starting breaking up on me (real bad pixelation), gradually filled with grey "snow" and then went black altogether. Both times, I checked my signal strength on the 103(b) and it was reporting 0's across the board. Also, both times, the signal came back within about 5 minutes.

Normally, my signal strengths on the 103(b) are:
96 82 95 82 95 83 95 89
95 90 94 95 95 95 xx xx
99 xx xx xx xx 95 xx xx
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx

This is the first time I've noticed this and I did watch a couple episodes of MythBusters on DiscoveryHD and the entire PSU-Illinois game on BigTenHD on Saturday (like 6 hours total) with NO problems.

I saw in another post that someone else had a similar problem, and someone suggested the multiswitch. I've got a relatively new Zinwell WB68 multiswitch (installed last fall) and I would estimate that my cable runs are about 25' from the dish to the multiswitch and then between 15' and 30' from the switch to the receivers. I have two HR20's, one R15 and and old DirecTivo using 8 total tuners.

Any ideas? 

ps: I checked all my signal strength this morning and there was one weird issue on the 101 that I don't remember previously - notice the low signals on 4,12,20 & 28:

97 97 97 47 96 99 96 99
97 98 97 61 98 100 97 99
95 100 96 47 96 99 95 100
95 94 97 52 97 99 96 100


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Are you sure there aren't any tree branches or other potential obstructions that could be blown by the wind and block the signal?


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

im gonna try and put a signal locker/power inserter inline to combat a similar issue. I'm seeing the even/odd issue on 103b, and random pixelation on some other lnb's since the rcvr started using 103b more. It might be a lack of enough power to the dish w/ all the tuners trying to use it all at once. why they made the wb68 unpowered is beyond me... seeing how the previous phase3 switches w/ power definitely worked better than the unpowered... guess it was a bottom line issue. anyways.... http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HRPID1422 I called Sonora support on this unit and asked questions, very helpful if you have any questions... more than an avg d* csr.

of course PoitNarf states the most obvious.. i have nothing in my way, so i assume, silly me


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Are you sure there aren't any tree branches or other potential obstructions that could be blown by the wind and block the signal?


Don't think so... Relatively new development without many tall trees and the dish is on my roof (2 stories) with a VERY clear view of the southern sky. Also, weather in the DC burbs was very calm last night - no weather to speak of.

Also, it is only affecting the new stations - all other satellites are reporting signal strengths mostly in the 80s and 90s...


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

blecas95, Let me describe what I've been seeing the last couple of days.

New install was done about a month ago. Everything has been perfect, including all the test channels they put up prior to the new HD channels, everything. When the HD channels came on last Wednesday, I got all of them perfectly.

Then on Sunday evening, while flipping through the HD channels on an H20, I noticed that SciHD wasn't coming it. It was all fekked up with digital noise, and the audio would cut in and out. I tried switching to other channels and back, but that one channel was messed up. Its SD equivalent channel was fine. I did not try to tune this channel in on the HR20 that evening.

Monday evening I turned on the same TV and noted that SciHD was working just fine. Then I was watching TBSHD (baseball game) and switching around between several HD channels during dinner on the H20 and when I went back to TBSHD it was messed up like SciHD had been. I changed to a nearby HD channel (one of the new ones), and went back to TBSHD, and it was fine again.

Then I moved into the livingroom and, using the HR20, saw the same thing happen. So when I tried to change to other MPEG-4 HD channels, some of them were messed up too. Finally I checked 103(b) satellite signal strength (great), got TBSHD to come back in clear and left it there.

Now everything is fine again.


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

Cybercowboy said:


> blecas95, Let me describe what I've been seeing the last couple of days.
> 
> New install was done about a month ago. Everything has been perfect, including all the test channels they put up prior to the new HD channels, everything. When the HD channels came on last Wednesday, I got all of them perfectly.
> 
> ...


That sounds like what I am seeing - works good for a while and then stops, but comes back eventually. Did you check your signal strengths? I was actually getting "Searching for Satellite 771" when the signal strength was at 0...


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## mark_winn (Nov 3, 2005)

I saw exactly the same thing last night. I was watching the baseball game on TBS-HD signal dropped to 0. Later, about 10 min or so it came back, but the signal was weak (10 to 20 on the meter), but no break up's. I will check the signals again today to determine if I need a re-alignment.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

blucas95 said:


> That sounds like what I am seeing - works good for a while and then stops, but comes back eventually. Did you check your signal strengths? I was actually getting "Searching for Satellite 771" when the signal strength was at 0...


Have you checked all of your cable connections, Something seems intermittent or loose. You need to check the ones at the LNB also.

Bob


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

you guys are seeing exactly what I am. go to the signal meter when it happens. check 103b. you'll probably see even or odds at zero. for example, watching strzw all the sudden goes 771, switching to strze then back to strzw brings it back. you have to change to an even xponder from an odd xponder to make it work again. thats why when you run the signal test a second time shortly after that first time, you wont see the zeros again. I posted my d* csr roulette results abotu this here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102114


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

kaz said:


> you guys are seeing exactly what I am. go to the signal meter when it happens. check 103b. you'll probably see even or odds at zero. for example, watching strzw all the sudden goes 771, switching to strze then back to strzw brings it back. you have to change to an even xponder from an odd xponder to make it work again. thats why when you run the signal test a second time shortly after that first time, you wont see the zeros again. I posted my d* csr roulette results abotu this here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102114


Well, mine is slightly different - 0's across the board - no odds or evens here. Very strange...


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

azarby said:


> Have you checked all of your cable connections, Something seems intermittent or loose. You need to check the ones at the LNB also.
> 
> Bob


I haven't yet, but it seems strange to me that a loose connection would ONLY be affecting the 103(b) satellite...


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

I had similar symptoms on 110 and 119. These kinds of intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose. When I finally broke down and had a tech come out, she was going to replace my AT9 with a Slimline until her supervisor told her to try to fine tune it. Of course, this appeared to "work." The next day the outages were worse than ever. A much more experienced tech came out and replaced the dish. He just took my word for it and had seen quite a few bad LNBs on the AT9. No problems since.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

blucas95 said:


> That sounds like what I am seeing - works good for a while and then stops, but comes back eventually. Did you check your signal strengths? I was actually getting "Searching for Satellite 771" when the signal strength was at 0...


Each time I have checked them when this was happening they seemed fine. The lowest transponder reading has been an 88 or so. Most of them are mid to high 90's. I didn't immediately check signal strengths each time though, usually as an afterthought, so I may be missing the low readings when they occur. Weather was very clear when all this was going on.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

blucas95 said:


> Well, mine is slightly different - 0's across the board - no odds or evens here. Very strange...


yea, but for 50 bux, to me its worth trying before dealing w/ a service call and d* again. granted if it doesnt work, its obviously a bad lnb in my case. one good side effect would be faster channel changing... that lag is killing me.


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## bounty12 (Apr 6, 2007)

I had the same issue (searching for sat, pix noise sometimes, channel comes in sometimes, sometimes not). D came out and changed multiswitches, then LMB, finally found one cable at the grounding block on one side rusted inside the connector. Replaced the connector and so far (since yesterday) no more problems. By the way all sats had srong signals except 103b which ranged from 75-85. After repair of cable all shot up into the 90's. May not be your problem but it was for me. Hope this helps.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

thats worth looking for. plus i needed a reason to get better cable crimpers anyways. that and i need to make 4 12-16" cables anyways


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

kaz said:


> yea, but for 50 bux, to me its worth trying before dealing w/ a service call and d* again. granted if it doesnt work, its obviously a bad lnb in my case. one good side effect would be faster channel changing... that lag is killing me.


Yeah - seems like good money spent either way. My problem is gonna be the install as my multiswitch is on the outside of the house and there is no power nearby to plug into. I would need someone to come and most likely tap a hole through the garage wall to get to an AC outlet...


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

a long mortar drill bit isnt that hard to find  i have an extra rg6 out to my outside box from my old terk and jvi, so im good


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

My first thought is an intermitent BBC or LNB. It could also be a loose connection or a intermitent input/output of the multiswitches (including the MS at the LNB arm.)

The Dark Tower, The Gunslinger. Do you think that he was really just 19 when he wrote this?


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## DruTheFu (Apr 19, 2006)

Subscribing to this thread. I'm having the 103b problem since the new channels come one. I've been noticing that once in a while, half of the new channels will come in. I get about half of them on the rgular, but the other half only come in once in a while. I checked the signal strength, and the odd transponders are 0 while the evens are in the mid to high 90's.

I called D* and they wanted me to pay the $70 for a tech to come out and "fix" it. I argued the fact that I am leasing this equipment, so why should I pay. I can understand if I own the equipment, but I won't pay for leased equipment. The CSR sounded dumbfounded explaining that's all he could do. So I told him that I have no problem breaking my contract and cancelling, since the majority of the shows i watch can be seen with OTA, I can watch shows on the Internet or download them, D* outpriced me for HD NFL Season Pass ($370), I could get a standalone Tivo, so there's no real reason to keep paying $90 a month. He came back and said he could waive the $70. I mentioned to him that the installer did not install any multiswitch, which he stated, "That was dumb". So I got a tech coming out October 6th. We'll see if he can fix it.

I have the HR20-100, the larger 5LNB dish. I do not have any multi-switches in place (although the 8-port SWM would be nice), no diplexors, and have 2 of the 4 coax cables coming directly from the dish into the two BBCs, then into the 2 tuners of the receiver. There are no line of sight issues, and the California weather isn't the problem. I'm hoping that the problem is simply some fine tuning adjustments, or maybe an LNB problem.

I'll reply back when or if the tech can resolve the problem.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

DruTheFu said:


> I have the HR20-100, the larger 5LNB dish. I do not have any multi-switches in place (although the 8-port SWM would be nice), no diplexors, and have 2 of the 4 coax cables coming directly from the dish into the two BBCs, then into the 2 tuners of the receiver. There are no line of sight issues, and the California weather isn't the problem. I'm hoping that the problem is simply some fine tuning adjustments, or maybe an LNB problem.
> 
> I'll reply back when or if the tech can resolve the problem.


I bet that whatever your solution is will work for me too, and I have a multiswitch. Fortunately I also have the service contract. I'm going to wait a bit before getting somebody out here, until I can pretty much tell them "the problem is X", they will probably just do more harm than good on an iintermittent problem like this.


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## Soulweeper (Jan 10, 2005)

oakwcj said:


> I had similar symptoms on 110 and 119. These kinds of intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose. When I finally broke down and had a tech come out, she was going to replace my AT9 with a Slimline until her supervisor told her to try to fine tune it. Of course, this appeared to "work." The next day the outages were worse than ever. A much more experienced tech came out and replaced the dish. He just took my word for it and had seen quite a few bad LNBs on the AT9. No problems since.


Same thing happened to me this past weekend...........0 on all odd transponders on 103(b). They sent a tech out on sunday, he realigned, with not much difference, went round and round with his boss about several things the tech and I both knew wasn't the problem, and finally replaced the dish with a new slimline. Problem solved, and signals good. So far so good, anyway.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

norcal jim said:


> Same thing happened to me this past weekend...........0 on all odd transponders on 103(b). They sent a tech out on sunday, he realigned, with not much difference, went round and round with his boss about several things the tech and I both knew wasn't the problem, and finally replaced the dish with a new slimline. Problem solved, and signals good. So far so good, anyway.


If it stays fixed it was most likely a bad LNB or the multiswitch at the feed arm.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

I wouldnt mind a slimline over a sidecar  makes you wonder about the QA on these units dish's tho. installing stuff w/out being able to test it always leads to problems


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## Soulweeper (Jan 10, 2005)

techrep said:


> If it stays fixed it was most likely a bad LNB or the multiswitch at the feed arm.


Yeah, that's what the tech thought, and so did I, thanks to the knowledgeable people here. He realigned it first, and it wasn't really "out" much, but it didn't change anything. Keeping my fingers crossed though, after reading some threads here. Hey, got a free service call that has a 90 day warranty, so can't complain.


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## mark_winn (Nov 3, 2005)

DTV will come out tomorrow to re=align the dish. Signal reading on my 103 are in the 20' and 40's.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

kaz said:


> you guys are seeing exactly what I am. go to the signal meter when it happens. check 103b. you'll probably see even or odds at zero. for example, watching strzw all the sudden goes 771, switching to strze then back to strzw brings it back. you have to change to an even xponder from an odd xponder to make it work again. thats why when you run the signal test a second time shortly after that first time, you wont see the zeros again. I posted my d* csr roulette results abotu this here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102114


Amen! Exactly what I am experiencing this afternoon. For me it is mostly the odds in and out.


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

mark_winn said:


> DTV will come out tomorrow to re=align the dish. Signal reading on my 103 are in the 20' and 40's.


I'm almost positive that mine does not need realigned... All signals from the 103(b) are normally between 82 and 99. It's sounding more and more like I should call them and get them to come out and swap my AT9 w/ the slimline dish (which would look better on the roof anyhow).


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## rasthan (Apr 30, 2006)

I had a repair guy out here last week for multiswitch problems. (Which of course, it behaved perfectly while he was here). In addition, it was showing 771 on occasion for the new HD channels.

He said the 103 (and 99?, I can't remember) will probably go in and out for a month or two because DirecTV was still tweaking their new satellite.

But then again, this repair guy didn't know what channels the HD content was on, nor that the H20 had RF capability.

We'll see.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

A good place to start for many of these probs is the BBCs. Make sure they're working properly, especially with some of the odd/even problems. 

Second thing is bad connections on the sidecar arms and/or bad LNBS on many AT-9's (especially Andrew LNBs).


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

Canis Lupus said:


> A good place to start for many of these probs is the BBCs. Make sure they're working properly, especially with some of the odd/even problems.
> 
> Second thing is bad connections on the sidecar arms and/or bad LNBS on many AT-9's (especially Andrew LNBs).


You know, I'm waffling like a politician here, but I am also thinking a faulty BBC might be in this mix.

I watched BigTenHD for a couple of hours this afternoon with no problems, BUT I was on my main HR20... The box that was having the problems last night was my second HR20 upstairs. And when I used it for 6 hours on Saturday with no issues it was on the main one as well.

I think I'm gonna record the Phillies game on BOTH HR20's tomorrow and compare the results. Just to be sure, I ordered four new BBC's from directv.com.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Good thinking. Probably a good place to start since BBCs are free, they ship 'em fast, they're easy to swap out, and it's easy to see whether that fixed the problem.

I'm not saying it IS the problem, just the easiest one to deal with first, especially if you have good signals when they're up.

And because you appeared to have isolated it to one box, that's a stronger argument for BBCs. What you might try while waiting for the replacements is swapping the ones you have now around, to see if it follows a BBC wherever it goes. 



blucas95 said:


> You know, I'm waffling like a politician here, but I am also thinking a faulty BBC might be in this mix.
> 
> I watched BigTenHD for a couple of hours this afternoon with no problems, BUT I was on my main HR20... The box that was having the problems last night was my second HR20 upstairs. And when I used it for 6 hours on Saturday with no issues it was on the main one as well.
> 
> I think I'm gonna record the Phillies game on BOTH HR20's tomorrow and compare the results. Just to be sure, I ordered four new BBC's from directv.com.


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

Canis Lupus said:


> Good thinking. Probably a good place to start since BBCs are free, they ship 'em fast, they're easy to swap out, and it's easy to see whether that fixed the problem.
> 
> I'm not saying it IS the problem, just the easiest one to deal with first, especially if you have good signals when they're up.
> 
> And because you appeared to have isolated it to one box, that's a stronger argument for BBCs. What you might try while waiting for the replacements is swapping the ones you have now around, to see if it follows a BBC wherever it goes.


Yep - my thinking exactly!


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

I started having the same problems this week. I have never had any of these issues prior to this and I suspect that since it seems to be hitting several of us in the same time frame that it is either the software on our receivers (personally, I loaded the latest CE last weekend) or something to do with the new sat/transmissions.

I know I have had my BBC's connected for months. Does mpeg2 channels also use the BBC's differently now since the new sat started transmitting?


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

just put my new rev3's in place, no change. rules that out on mine :\


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## BubbyJSB (Sep 27, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> Amen! Exactly what I am experiencing this afternoon. For me it is mostly the odds in and out.


The exact same thing is happening to me. I have a tech coming tomorrow but I have my doubts they will be able to figure it out.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

you might wanna take a look at this and try it out: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=99528#4


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Threads on this issue are popping up like mushrooms. First, if you have good sig's when you are _not_ experiencing this intermittent problem, you don't have an alignment problem. These are probably multi-switch problems, either the one in the 5 sat LNB on your dish or any separate, additional multi-switch(es) you are using. The WB68 is not a self-powered multi-switch, and some have been successful in curing their problem by using the self-powered WB616. Since many are experiencing the problem at one receiver location, but not others, the problem could be related to poor switching voltage presented to the multi-switch(es) due to cabling type, length, or condition, including connectors, and not the mult-switch(es). Swapping the connections around at the first multi-switch could help isolate the cause, cabling/connectors vs. multi-switch. Removing any additional multi-switches and running straight to the multi-switch in the dish would, I think, be the next step.

As VOS likes to say, basic troubleshooting procedure: you either start eliminating things one-at-a-time or eliminate everything and start adding things back one-at-a-time.

Also see WB616 Rocks!


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

i gave up tracking them. at one point i was making posts which linked to others. someone needs to merge or make a sticky about this.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

kaz said:


> i gave up tracking them. at one point i was making posts which linked to others. someone needs to merge or make a sticky about this.


I agree. We actually need two stickies: one on alignment and one on multi-switch issues.


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

K4SMX said:


> Threads on this issue are popping up like mushrooms. First, if you have good sig's when you are _not_ experiencing this intermittent problem, you don't have an alignment problem. These are probably multi-switch problems, either the one in the 5 sat LNB on your dish or any separate, additional multi-switch(es) you are using. The WB68 is not a self-powered multi-switch, and some have been successful in curing their problem by using the self-powered WB616. Since many are experiencing the problem at one receiver location, but not others, the problem could be related to poor switching voltage presented to the multi-switch(es) due to cabling type, length, or condition, including connectors, and not the mult-switch(es). Swapping the connections around at the first multi-switch could help isolate the cause, cabling/connectors vs. multi-switch. Removing any additional multi-switches and running straight to the multi-switch in the dish would, I think, be the next step.
> 
> As VOS likes to say, basic troubleshooting procedure: you either start eliminating things one-at-a-time or eliminate everything and start adding things back one-at-a-time.


Just trying to understand why we are looking for a physical problem with our setup...

It seems this specific issue just "popped" up in the past week for the vast majority.

Is the new sat using the multiswitches in a different way than they were being used previously?

Is the BBC's being used in a different way than they were previous to the new sat going live?

I know that in my specific case that the problems are not isolated to just 103B and the new HD channels.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> I agree. We actually need two stickies: one on alignment and one on multi-switch issues.


I disagree, one master "771" thread which includes alignment, multiswitches, bad lnb's, bad cabling, powerloss, even/odd, etc. I've seen some threads started as one thing and turn to another. some people dont know what is going on at first and wouldnt know which to post to.


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## KCCardsfan (Apr 18, 2007)

norcal jim said:


> Same thing happened to me this past weekend...........0 on all odd transponders on 103(b). They sent a tech out on sunday, he realigned, with not much difference, went round and round with his boss about several things the tech and I both knew wasn't the problem, and finally replaced the dish with a new slimline. Problem solved, and signals good. So far so good, anyway.


This is what they are doing for me on the 8th, I only lose the new HD channels at night (every night) after it cools down outside, while all other channels are fine, during the day the new HD's are fine. I was told the installers don't carry the LNB's for the AT9 anymore so they are replacing it with a Slimline.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

clay_w said:


> Just trying to understand why we are looking for a physical problem with our setup...
> 
> It seems this specific issue just "popped" up in the past week for the vast majority.
> 
> ...


Various things. your receiver has to power another lnb. any degregation in the copper in between could cause loss of signal, or loss of power. the WB68 has not been working in "wide band" until these new HD channels came online. you wouldn't have noticed a problem until then. defective/bad switch causing it to lose signal, or distribute power wrong. BBC's plugged in this whole time which where not in use could have overheated, and are not rev3. defective 103 lnb, since it was impossible to test before now on a field install. I;m sure I can think of more, but that should be enough


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

kaz said:


> I disagree, one master "771" thread which includes alignment, multiswitches, bad lnb's, bad cabling, powerloss, even/odd, etc. I've seen some threads started as one thing and turn to another. some people dont know what is going on at first and wouldnt know which to post to.


No problem with me how it's done. That would be a giant sticky, and it would need not to be duplicative of the excellent work already done.


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## mark_winn (Nov 3, 2005)

FWIW, my dish was re-aligned today. All transponders in the 90's now (103 b was in the 20's). So far no issues.


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## BubbyJSB (Sep 27, 2007)

kaz said:


> you might wanna take a look at this and try it out: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=99528#4


I did a little more checking and if I switch the cables running into the multiswitch and the problem stays with the odd transponders. If I undo one certain cable into the multiswitch and leave it unplugged the problem goes away no matter if it was plugged into odd or even. If I am watching a channel that is breaking up and saying searching for sat and unscrew that one cable from the multiswitch everything clears up. What the heck does that mean. Can a bad cable cause a problem with only odd transponders no matter where it is plugged in.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

BubbyJSB said:


> I did a little more checking and if I switch the cables running into the multiswitch and the problem stays with the odd transponders. If I undo one certain cable into the multiswitch and leave it unplugged the problem goes away no matter if it was plugged into odd or even. If I am watching a channel that is breaking up and saying searching for sat and unscrew that one cable from the multiswitch everything clears up. What the heck does that mean. Can a bad cable cause a problem with only odd transponders no matter where it is plugged in.


sure, if theres a short somewhere. check that cable (if you can) for any sharp bends, chewed up spots, rust, bad connectors, etc. alternatively, that one port on the switch could be bad.

on a side note, my locker should be here tomorrow


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

clay_w said:


> Just trying to understand why we are looking for a physical problem with our setup...
> 
> It seems this specific issue just "popped" up in the past week for the vast majority.
> 
> ...


I believe the answer is "Yes" to both questions.


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## mikeybc (Apr 22, 2007)

Does anyone know what satellite the local HD channels come in on? Does it differ by location? I have been getting some pixelation on my local HD channels (running through dish, not OTA). Other HD channels look fine...

All of my signals look ok, but not quite as good as some of the others I see listed on the boards here. Any help would be appreciated!!


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

mikeybc said:


> Does anyone know what satellite the local HD channels come in on? Does it differ by location? I have been getting some pixelation on my local HD channels (running through dish, not OTA). Other HD channels look fine...


I think someone posted a list of these w/ DMA numbers before somewhere, might wanna try searching.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mikeybc said:


> Does anyone know what satellite the local HD channels come in on? Does it differ by location? I have been getting some pixelation on my local HD channels (running through dish, not OTA). Other HD channels look fine...
> 
> All of my signals look ok, but not quite as good as some of the others I see listed on the boards here. Any help would be appreciated!!


DirecTV Local Channels by DMA Ranking and DirecTV Local Channels Alphabetically by City (Please see the right column)


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

proof no one uses those quicklinks


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## Spit (Dec 7, 2006)

kaz said:


> sure, if theres a short somewhere. check that cable (if you can) for any sharp bends, chewed up spots, rust, bad connectors, etc. alternatively, that one port on the switch could be bad.
> 
> Just to reemphasize -- I was experiencing the same HD 771 problem as others (in my case on one HR20 tuner). From reading the many postings on this board, I was sure it was a BBC or multiswitch problem. As it turned out, the cause of the problem was a simple cable connector. The connector had a tiny bid of rust in it, and may have even had a slight burn. As soon as I replaced the connector with a new one -- the problem was history.
> 
> ...


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

Just a follow up on my situation, after my reboot last night I have not had any of the issues again (so far at least) and for the first time when I run the signal test on 103B I get all mid 70's-80's on both tuners instead of the intermittent 0's and many TP's in the low 50's-60's.


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## Jagg (Oct 3, 2007)

Spit said:


> kaz said:
> 
> 
> > sure, if theres a short somewhere. check that cable (if you can) for any sharp bends, chewed up spots, rust, bad connectors, etc. alternatively, that one port on the switch could be bad.
> ...


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

If you mean the multiswitch when you say "connector box", then yes it is a problem. The switch should at least be protected by a soffit or eave when outside. If you can't move it, you might consider cleaning out or replacing the current connectors, then building some kind of weatherproof box or something to keep it dry.



Jagg said:


> Spit said:
> 
> 
> > This could be a huge problem for me since my connector box is actually outside and not fully protected from rain.


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

Boy is this frustrating. In checking the signals again, I sometimes got zero's on the even tp's for 103b tuner 1 (never a problem for tuner 2).

I did a little troubleshooting hoping to maybe rule out certain things as being the culprit.

I switched the cables (including BBC's) and still had the problem on tuner one so that would seem to rule out a BBC or cable problem (would that also rule out a multiswitch problem?)

I also went out to the multiswitch (Zinwell WB68) and checked and tightened all connections but it did not change the Zero's on tuner 1.

The frustrating thing is that sometimes the signals are fine on tuner one and sometimes they are zeros for the even TP's. But, tuner 2 is always consistent with decent signal strength so that would seem to rule out an alignment problem.

Both tuners signals are fine for the other sats, so that would seem to rule out a physical tuner 1 problem in the receiver. 

Another thing I did was put up the signal METER on tuner 1, TP 2 when there was a signal other than zero to just watch it for a while to see if it fluctuated wildly like you might expect it to but it stayed steady at 84-85.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

clay_w said:


> The frustrating thing is that sometimes the signals are fine on tuner one and sometimes they are zeros for the even TP's. But, tuner 2 is always consistent with decent signal strength so that would seem to rule out an alignment problem.
> .


are you checking tuner 2 right after tuner 1? in my experience, once you hit a xponder that works, the ones that dont work do... its like re energizing them. thats why when you get 771 on strzwhd and hit strzehd, and back to strwhd it works. if you are always checking tuner1 before tuner2, and only seeing the problems in tuner 1, that might explain it. try checking tuner 2 before tuner 1 next time, see how it reacts. (change the tuner number before you change the sat number in the signals screen)


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

kaz said:


> are you checking tuner 2 right after tuner 1? in my experience, once you hit a xponder that works, the ones that dont work do... its like re energizing them. thats why when you get 771 on strzwhd and hit strzehd, and back to strwhd it works. if you are always checking tuner1 before tuner2, and only seeing the problems in tuner 1, that might explain it. try checking tuner 2 before tuner 1 next time, see how it reacts. (change the tuner number before you change the sat number in the signals screen)


Yes, I have tried starting from tuner two, got good signals and then switched to tuner 1 and got the zeros. I then went back to tuner 2 and it was still fine and then back to tuner 1 and it still had the zero's.

It seems to consistently be tuner 1.


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## JacenSolo (May 18, 2006)

Argh, I'm getting the issue on just Tuner 1 (the 771 searching error), I'll watch a show for a few minutes, then it drops. I check the satellite signal and tuner 1 is all 0's, while tuner 2 is fine......it may come back up 5 minutes later of 2 hours later.....then the same thing the next day.....


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## mfeinstein (Sep 1, 2007)

I noticed a similar problem today with the 2nd wave of HD channels coming online. I had no problems with the first wave of MPEG-4 channels. However, when I tested the new HD channels today, I found that my H20 receiver can only tune in CSNCHD (640) and BravoHD (273) intermittently. Usually, I get a Searching for Satellite 771, but they will occasionally come in. On my HR20, they come in fine every time. I do have a multiswitch (WB68), but have no idea how long my cable lengths are. This is a professional, complicated install that I didn't do myself.

My 103b signal strengths are:
HR20
96 95 94 94 95 95 92 92
96 95 95 94 96 96 xx xx
95 xx xx xx xx 60 xx xx
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx

H20
95 94 70 68 95 94 94 95
82 78 62 60 96 95 xx xx
96 xx xx xx xx 75 xx xx
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx

I couldn't find a transponder map that included the HD channels, including the newest channels rolled out today. But, I presume that the two lowest numbers on the H20 map onto 640 and 273.

I have already tried resetting the H20 receiver and re-authorizing the H20. No change from that. Is my problem likely to be the wiring/connector issues that people have been discussing here? What else could I check?


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

I was recording Back To You and watching the HD baseball game live and when the recording stopped, my box froze up.

The baseball game was on and I could still watch it but the remote and buttons on the front of the receiver did nothing.

I am doing a RBR and since I seem to be pretty much hosed anyways, I am going to revert back to the last national software release to see if that makes a difference for me (I was on the latest CE version).


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

clay_w said:


> I was recording Back To You and watching the HD baseball game live and when the recording stopped, my box froze up.
> 
> The baseball game was on and I could still watch it but the remote and buttons on the front of the receiver did nothing.
> 
> I am doing a RBR and since I seem to be pretty much hosed anyways, I am going to revert back to the last national software release to see if that makes a difference for me (I was on the latest CE version).


Well, reverting back to the national release didn't fix the signal strength issue either  .


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## DruTheFu (Apr 19, 2006)

A bit of an update from my previous post (on page 1 of this thread).

So I was browsing through some new HD, and when I tried going to Animal Planet HD (Ch. 282), I ended up getting the 771 message. I changed the channel to the Discovery Theater HD (Ch. 76) then back to APHD (Ch. 282) and the channel came in fine with no 771. This also cures the 771 on the Smithsonian HD and Discovery HD channels when I go to Ch 76 first.

So would this be an LNB problem? I am leaning towards this rather than the BBC. Still waiting for Saturday's tech visit.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

thats exactly what i'm seeing, check out post #59, then #3, hell, read the whole thread, its got juicy debuging tips


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## Jagg (Oct 3, 2007)

DruTheFu said:


> A bit of an update from my previous post (on page 1 of this thread).
> 
> So I was browsing through some new HD, and when I tried going to Animal Planet HD (Ch. 282), I ended up getting the 771 message. I changed the channel to the Discovery Theater HD (Ch. 76) then back to APHD (Ch. 282) and the channel came in fine with no 771. This also cures the 771 on the Smithsonian HD and Discovery HD channels when I go to Ch 76 first.
> 
> So would this be an LNB problem? I am leaning towards this rather than the BBC. Still waiting for Saturday's tech visit.


I switched the BBCs around and still had the problem on Tuner 1. Changing channels sometimes cures the problem, but sometimes it takes awhile. Last night TBSHD wasn't coming in on Tuner 1, but it was ok on regular TBS, we watched it for awhile in SD () and then i started flipping around and eventually got TBSHD in.

This does suck though, i wish i could consistently get all my channels.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

This problem seems to affect me more at night. I don't have a multiswitch, just a slimline dish, two H20's, and one HR20-700. I'll switch between the new HD channels and about every 5th or 6th change I'll get what appears to be parts of the wrong channel (say, DiscoveryHD on the Smithsonian channel) but it will be frozen or highly pixelated and nearly frozen. If I'm lucky I can switch away from that channel (I was last night, box never locked up like it has in the past) and then go to say channel 95 (MPEG-2 HD channel), then back to one of the new MPEG-4 channels and it's OK.

My cable length is the longest to the HR20 (about 120 feet I'm estimating). I have seen some problems on the H20 with the shortest cable length (about 50 feet) but no where near the extent I see on the HR20. During the day the problem seems to be less but then I'm usually not flipping channels much either, or not watching TV period.

It almost seems that the "switch" signal isn't quite making it to the dish at times. If it was a bad BBC I'd expect some consistency. Could it be that we all need something to boost the control signals to the dish? Has anybody tried to use one of these? I'm not 100% sure how you tell which cable is which coming out of the slimline dish, but am assuming it matters. I'd pay for something like this (perhaps even with an amp or two like they show on page 2) if it would solve the problem.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

techrep said:


> If it stays fixed it was most likely a bad LNB or the multiswitch at the feed arm.


I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The Ka-band sats broadcast at an extremely high frequency (18 GHz and up). Each channel (ok, transponder) needs to be tuned at the LNB, and the higher frequency Ka-band is tweakier than the lower-frequency Ku-bands from the older sats.

So, if there is a problem with your LNB, or noise in your tuning voltages from your box when the voltage gets to the LNB, the problem will occur first with the 103(b) channels. What may have been just barely working is now flaky or failing.

Possible fixes:

1) replace your multi-switch with a WB616, which provides its own power and may stabilize tuning voltages. This has worked for at least one person. Especially recommended if you have more than one multi-switch or some other kind of cascade.

2) replace your dish assembly. This worked for me when I had issues like this with the old 3-LNB dish (one dish output would fail after a few days, fixable by reset). Replaced dish, no more issue.

3) replace one badly behaving box, if the issue is contained to one box (and especially to one tuner), although a swap should be done to test this, if possible.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

clay_w said:


> It seems to consistently be tuner 1 [after swapping everything else -- kcm]


This argues for a bad tuning voltage or other issue with that tuner. Replace box.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

Cybercowboy said:


> My cable length is the longest to the HR20 (about 120 feet I'm estimating).
> 
> It almost seems that the "switch" signal isn't quite making it to the dish at times. If it was a bad BBC I'd expect some consistency. Could it be that we all need something to boost the control signals to the dish? Has anybody tried to use one of these? I'm not 100% sure how you tell which cable is which coming out of the slimline dish, but am assuming it matters. I'd pay for something like this (perhaps even with an amp or two like they show on page 2) if it would solve the problem.


Mine is coming in today. its worth the $50 to get faster channel changing even if it doesnt solve my problem. however with your long run, that might be your issue, and this should work perfectly. I'll post any changes (here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1178591#post1178591 since i have everything else there) when I get mine in line, I really hope it works, because the only thing i have left in my debuggnig is a dish swap


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

kaz said:


> Mine is coming in today. its worth the $50 to get faster channel changing even if it doesnt solve my problem. however with your long run, that might be your issue, and this should work perfectly. I'll post any changes (here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1178591#post1178591 since i have everything else there) when I get mine in line, I really hope it works, because the only thing i have left in my debuggnig is a dish swap


Does this item require a multiswitch also or can it be used stand-alone? My install doesn't have a multiswitch. And am I going to have to trace the wires from the dish to my attic to figure out which of the four sat feeds are 13V, 18V, 13V-22khz, and 18V-22khz? Sorry for being such a n00b.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

Cybercowboy said:


> Does this item require a multiswitch also or can it be used stand-alone? My install doesn't have a multiswitch. And am I going to have to trace the wires from the dish to my attic to figure out which of the four sat feeds are 13V, 18V, 13V-22khz, and 18V-22khz? Sorry for being such a n00b.


its a 4x4, its not a switch, doesn't require a switch, but works in any config of switches (cascade, daisychain, direct). The dish itself has a built in multiswitch, I dont think you'll need to do any tracing.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

kaz said:


> its a 4x4, its not a switch, doesn't require a switch, but works in any config of switches (cascade, daisychain, direct). The dish itself has a built in multiswitch, I dont think you'll need to do any tracing.


Cool, I'm going to order one today. Thanks. 

Now I just have to get power up there.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

If I had all these problems you guys are having, I think I would haul a seemingly" malfunctioning" receiver w/ BBC's and a small TV (w/ RF modulator?) out to as close as I could get to the dish. Then I would remove the LNB off the dish.and all existing coaxial cables. Finally, I would hook up the box to the dish with new, short coax cables(s) and test the LNB to see if it's working properly. If the problems go away, then I'd figure I'm losing switching voltage somewhere in the rest of the setup, and that the LNB is OK. If I still have the problem, then I'd know the solution at least involves a new LNB. I'm sure _some_ of you guys would be able to do this fairly easily and report back.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> If I had all these problems you guys are having, I think I would haul a seemingly" malfunctioning" receiver w/ BBC's and a small TV (w/ RF modulator?) out to as close as I could get to the dish. Then I would remove the LNB off the dish.and all existing coaxial cables. Finally, I would hook up the box to the dish with new, short coax cables(s) and test the LNB to see if it's working properly. If the problems go away, then I'd figure I'm losing switching voltage somewhere in the rest of the setup, and that the LNB is OK. If I still have the problem, then I'd know the solution at least involves a new LNB. I'm sure _some_ of you guys would be able to do this fairly easily and report back.


It would be quite the chore for me to do this. It's bad enough just getting the HR20 disconnected from where it is at currently. In my case I'd not want to go so far as disconnecting the LNB. Surely the cables from the dish to the grounding block (located in my attic) are OK because I'm not having this problems on the two H20's that are on shorter runs of cable. Probably in my case it would be adequate to swap out the HR20 with the H20 in the kitchen, which has only about 50 feet of cable total to the dish. I'll see if I can do this tonight, but don't hold your breath. :lol:


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

I just found this thread and it looks pretty similar to what I was going through last weekend.

If you guys figure this out conclusively, I would be quite interested. I'm considering calling DirecTV because of this issue. I have the protection plan and maybe they should check my AT9/WB68. I saw the issue on an HR20 and an H20 simulaneously.

I posted this thead: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102163



mikeny said:


> Has anyone lost signals on 103 b at about 8 AM EST over the last couple days?
> 
> My tps range from the mid 80s to mid 90s with high 70s to 80 on tp 2 and 4.
> 
> ...


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

mikeny said:


> I just found this thread and it looks pretty similar to what I was going through last weekend.
> 
> If you guys figure this out conclusively, I would be quite interested. I'm considering calling DirecTV because of this issue. I have the protection plan and maybe they should check my AT9/WB68. I saw the issue on an HR20 and an H20 simulaneously.
> 
> I posted this thead: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102163


Yeah, it will be nice if/when someone confirms what the cause is. Is everyone having the problem just with tuner #1?


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## BubbyJSB (Sep 27, 2007)

Just curious but is everyone that has this problem have an AT-9 dish or do some have the slimline?


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

BubbyJSB said:


> Just curious but is everyone that has this problem have an AT-9 dish or do some have the slimline?


Good question. Maybe we should start a poll. I don't recall seeing a post describing these symptoms with a slimline dish.


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

clay_w said:


> Yeah, it will be nice if/when someone confirms what the cause is. Is everyone having the problem just with tuner #1?


I'm not sure in my case... I'll have to check it this weekend when I have some time to play with it some more.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

seems the signal locker has solved the dropping to 0/771 problem on mine. even xponders show 70's while odds show 80's.... probably a defective lnb, unless thats normal.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

kaz said:


> seems the signal locker has solved the dropping to 0/771 problem on mine. even xponders show 70's while odds show 80's.... probably a defective lnb, unless thats normal.


80's on odds, 70's on evens here in Md. Dish was realigned but couldn't do any better. Slimline install is scheduled for Monday. Will let everybody know what happens. BTW my dropouts to 0 seemed to have stopped (knock on wood) since I tightened up all of my cable connectors. However, it doesn't take much for the even signal to go down in the 40's at times, so I still suspect the LNB.


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

mikeny said:


> Good question. Maybe we should start a poll. I don't recall seeing a post describing these symptoms with a slimline dish.


I think a poll would be a great idea and at least maybe help us eliminate some things as the problem. I know at least one person is having the problems without having a multiswitch.

Maybe some things:

Multiswitch? If so, type?
Always is tuner #1?
Dish type?
Does it only start after a certain time of day?


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## blucas95 (Sep 27, 2006)

Well, my new rev. 3 BBC's came today and I replaced all 4 (two HR20's) rev. 2's and so far, knock on wood, no drop out's so far... I'll keep testing it.


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## clay_w (Dec 7, 2003)

Maybe it is just luck, but I downloaded the new HR20 CE tonight and ran the signal strength test about 30-40 times on 103B for tuner 1 and 2 and could not get any tuners to be zero or even abnormally low.

Previous to this, over the last week I could not run the test more than 2 or 3 times without getting the zeros, including earlier today (fingers crossed).

Oh, and I just remembered that when I loaded last weeks CE that when it got to step 2 of 2 I kept getting a "Searching for signal" message and then later in the week when I reverted back to the national release the same thing happened.

That did not happen when I loaded tonight's CE.


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## DruTheFu (Apr 19, 2006)

So I had the tech come out over the weekend on Saturday. He went up and did some fine tuning, and while my signals strengths are still in the high 90's, the 103(b) strengths are still fishy. Here's what I get:

Tuner 1:
1-8: 92 77 86 77 89 79 86 80
9-16: 91 84 88 82 91 88 NA NA
17-24: 95 NA NA NA NA 90 NA NA
25-32: NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Tuner 2:
1-8: 91 74 86 0 89 0 86 0
9-16: 91 0 88 0 91 0 NA NA
17-24: 94 NA NA NA NA 0 NA NA
25-32: NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

I mentioned to the tech that maybe it might be the LNB (I have the BIG 5 LNB dish), but he said he "tested" it, and he beleives that it's my receiver (HR20-100). After doing some reading on here, I suspect that it may be the coax comnig into Tuner 2. I have no multiswitches or diplexors in place, with a direct run from the dish to the BBCs into the receiver.
So I just received my replacement receiver (a refurb HR20-100) that I'll get to activiating and testing this weekend. I also placed an order for two replacement BBCs from D* which should be coming soon. I just hope it's not the cable...

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, DtF


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

have you tried swapping the tuner 1 and tuner 2 cables and seeing if the results get reversed? if they dont, its probably the hr20.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

DruTheFu said:


> So I had the tech come out over the weekend on Saturday. He went up and did some fine tuning, and while my signals strengths are still in the high 90's, the 103(b) strengths are still fishy. Here's what I get:
> 
> Tuner 1:
> 1-8: 92 77 86 77 89 79 86 80
> ...


You know I have similar readings that you do maybe even a little lower. I have D*coming out Saturday to adjust my dish or do whatever to boost my signals as rain fade is a huge problem for me these days with this bird.


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## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

DruTheFu said:


> So I had the tech come out over the weekend on Saturday. He went up and did some fine tuning, and while my signals strengths are still in the high 90's, the 103(b) strengths are still fishy. Here's what I get:
> 
> Tuner 1:
> 1-8: 92 77 86 77 89 79 86 80
> ...


I think this is going to remain a problem until DirectV figures out what is going on. I had similar issues to everyone here. The tech just left. He replaced the B Band converters, the HD DVR AND the multiswitch. Only the odd numbers on 103 (b) were problematic. Some reading in the 20's and teens. After he did all this they are in the 60's and 70's. No idea what is going on. Everything seems to be working but he gave me his card and said I should call if it starts dropping out again because he doesn't know what else todo. I have two HD DVRs in my house and the other one is working fine.


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## DruTheFu (Apr 19, 2006)

So my issue is finally resolved. After a tech came to visit to fix my 103(b) EVEN transponders' 0 strength signal issue, he suggested that I had a bad receiver (hr20-100). So D* sent me out a "new" (refurbished) unit. But before going through the hassle of installing it, getting it activated, and testing it (and losing all my recorded shows and setting up my season passes WHAT A PAIN), I placed an order for 2 replacement BBC's. Well those BBC's finally arrived. I replaced the BBC's on my original hr20-100 unit, and what do you know, I now have signal on ALL my 103(b) transponders (both tuners). So I'm a happy camper for now. I'm going to hang onto the replacement hr20-100 for a couple of weeks to confirm and make sure the problem is resolved.

Just wanted to give a quick update...


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## JacenSolo (May 18, 2006)

Ok, finally got a tech out to check the issue. I was at work, so I typed up what needed to be checked for my wife. The tech came out checked the signals (which worked fine for the moment), DID NOT check the LNB on the dish or the multiswitch. He did "change some settings on the receiver that he said has been causing the dropping of signals because the receiver is having to adjust to the tv and it can cause the signal to get lost." Turns out he changed the native and scroll settings, these would not cause the signal to drop would they....should I be calling this joker back?


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Yes  Native and Scrolling would be poor excuses for signal drops.



JacenSolo said:


> Ok, finally got a tech out to check the issue. I was at work, so I typed up what needed to be checked for my wife. The tech came out checked the signals (which worked fine for the moment), DID NOT check the LNB on the dish or the multiswitch. He did "change some settings on the receiver that he said has been causing the dropping of signals because the receiver is having to adjust to the tv and it can cause the signal to get lost." Turns out he changed the native and scroll settings, these would not cause the signal to drop would they....should I be calling this joker back?


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## JacenSolo (May 18, 2006)

I guess I'll be calling the tech back when I get home - kind of angers me, since I did the majority of his job and typed out what he needed to check.....argh...


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## cham (Jan 20, 2007)

Heres what fixed ours

my theory is the multiswitch is somehow involved. 
i have one hr20, h15, and one samsung something or other.

only the hr20 needs access to the high def and extra satellites

so, i direct wired two inputs to the hr20.

i took the remaining outputs from the dish into a standard 2x4 multiswitch, and ran those to the other receivers.

things now work fine, after several days of 771 errors, 0 signal, etc.

I also believe the Directv was doing something on their end to cause this to happen


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## Simpleton24 (Sep 14, 2007)

I had the same problem with tuner 1 dropping to 0 on all sat's. It usually happened after multiple channel changes between tuners or running signal strength test. Tuner 1 would get 771 error. Signals on tuner 2 were good 90-100 when this happened. When a menu reset was performed, tuner 1 would come back for about an hour and then go out again.

My initial thought was a tuner problem on tuner 1. D* tech also witnessed tuner dropout and came back after reset.

First I had the AT9 (side car) replaced since it should have been upgraded when I received my HR20. Everything worked fine for half a day then tuner1 problem returned.

Second I swapped tuner 2 cable in with tuner 1 (with BBC) and it still stayed with tuner1. I still checked every connection from dish to grounding blocks, to WB68 and to every reciever. all connections good. (Using RG6Q cable with compession fittings)

Tuner 1 would still come back after menu reset. I then ordered a replacement HR20 since I have the service plan. While waiting for the replacement to arrive I found out about the Sonora in this forum and figured I would give it a try.

After installing it 3 days ago, I have extensively tested the tuners and both tuners have been 90 -100 with no dropouts on tuner1. Went through the CE on Fri. night and still works great.

The runs from my dish to my HR20 are max 60 ft., but tuner 1 must be getting weak after a period of time. I am going to keep the original HR20 and send back the replacement as I need to keep my Playlist intact-(wife was upset about losing recordings).


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

I wouldn't say your tuner 1 is "getting weak," except possibly with respect to DC signaling voltages. What's happening is your LNB, for whatever reason, is not properly responding to the signaling voltages/tones with which it's presented at the other end of that 60' cable run. There are several possible reasons, but the Sonora basically eliminates switching at the LNB.


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## junyoure (Oct 22, 2003)

K4SMX said:


> I wouldn't say your tuner 1 is "getting weak," except possibly with respect to DC signaling voltages. What's happening is your LNB, for whatever reason, is not properly responding to the signaling voltages/tones with which it's presented at the other end of that 60' cable run. There are several possible reasons, but the Sonora basically eliminates switching at the LNB.


...Same issues as everybody else, but I have a newly installed slimline dish. An HR20 that works fine, and an H20-600 that intermittantly pops a 771 error. Reseting the receiver fixes the 771 for an unknown duration, maybe 24 hours, maybe 24 seconds.

After reading all the different threads on 771 errors, I'm replacing my BBC's, considering replacing the WB68 with either the Sonora or the SB616.

Are they interchangeable or do they perform different functions?

-jr.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

junyoure said:


> ...Same issues as everybody else, but I have a newly installed slimline dish. An HR20 that works fine, and an H20-600 that intermittantly pops a 771 error. Reseting the receiver fixes the 771 for an unknown duration, maybe 24 hours, maybe 24 seconds.
> 
> After reading all the different threads on 771 errors, I'm replacing my BBC's, considering replacing the WB68 with either the Sonora or the SB616.
> 
> ...


sonora isnt a switch, its a locker/power inserter. you'd place it right infront on the first switch.


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## junyoure (Oct 22, 2003)

kaz said:


> sonora isnt a switch, its a locker/power inserter. you'd place it right infront on the first switch.


thanks for the info. I probably was't clear enough.

since a WB68 isn't powered, I can place the Sonora upstream (toward the dish) to supply power to the LNB, but wouldn't an SB616 accomplish the same thing?

I don't wanna hijack the thread, the 771 error resulting from 103(b) signal drops is what I'm ultimately trying to fix and it sounds like getting more power to the lnb is the solution, whether it's cables, lnb issues, or BBC issues.

Having said that, I'm missing something because i'm thinking:

sonora = power to the lnb
WB616 = power to the lnb.

what am I missing here?

thanks.

-jr.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

yes and no. the sonora locks the lnb's as well as powers then, the wb616 just powers.


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## EAGLES20 (Sep 8, 2005)

Simpleton24 said:


> I had the same problem with tuner 1 dropping to 0 on all sat's. It usually happened after multiple channel changes between tuners or running signal strength test. Tuner 1 would get 771 error. Signals on tuner 2 were good 90-100 when this happened. When a menu reset was performed, tuner 1 would come back for about an hour and then go out again.
> 
> My initial thought was a tuner problem on tuner 1. D* tech also witnessed tuner dropout and came back after reset.
> 
> ...


Is this Sonar multi switch still working for you. I have the same problem and they want to send me a new one but I have a black HR20 with pay per view fights on it and some UFC fights and Movies we paid for and me wife is not to happy about it either because out of the three HR20 we have and I've had them since they first came out we sent back no less then 10 of them. Then they started doing the updates on here and things started to get better but it took awhile before we got where we're at today. Thanks for any help I see your on line right now so I hope you see this.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

kaz said:


> yes and no. the sonora locks the lnb's as well as powers then, the wb616 just powers.


No, they do the same thing. Both the Sonora and the WB616 lock each of the four lines to the dish to a specific satellite/transponder selection, and they both supply power to the LNBs.


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## Simpleton24 (Sep 14, 2007)

EAGLES20 said:


> Is this Sonar multi switch still working for you. I have the same problem and they want to send me a new one but I have a black HR20 with pay per view fights on it and some UFC fights and Movies we paid for and me wife is not to happy about it either because out of the three HR20 we have and I've had them since they first came out we sent back no less then 10 of them. Then they started doing the updates on here and things started to get better but it took awhile before we got where we're at today. Thanks for any help I see your on line right now so I hope you see this.


Yes it still works great. No problems for 4 weeks now.


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## EAGLES20 (Sep 8, 2005)

Simpleton24 said:


> Yes it still works great. No problems for 4 weeks now.


Hey thanks for letting me know. I'm just getting back home and seeing your reply to my question. I'm gonna order it right away. Solid Signal will have it . Yeah they do I just looked it up 44.95 so thanks again. ( ORDERED )


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

If a certain transponder is "0" and it doesn't effect your programming, then don't worry about it. It has been shut off by DirecTV, they can turn on or off a transponder for their own technical reasons.

Nationally it is okay for some customers to show a "0" on a transponder, this is nothing to be alarmed about.


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