# Bad capacitors in DirecTV receivers?



## merlin50 (Oct 21, 2007)

I am working on my third of fourth failed H20/H21. They have failed 2-3 years after I receive them almost always the same problem start to turn off and on and then just dead. Today NY Times writes of bad electrolytic capacitors in Dell and many other computers and I can't help but wonder if this is plaguing these receivers. DTV is nice always send a new one that works well at first but then they all die no matter the model H21 is no better than H20. I have many older SD receivers in the house no problems. Has this been commented on in this board?


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

We can thank our little friends along the banks of the Yangtze river for all kinds of inferior products


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Interesting article in the NY Times.

I can't say anything about DirecTV's situation, but back around 2004, the time in question here, I heard about a big shortages of capacitors in the audio industry. Some companies ran into problems substituting smaller caps. More often, products were simply unavailable for months, waiting for a crucial part in order to be built.

It's hard to say what caused your problems, *merlin50*. Usually if a power supply cap goes, you'll hear it "pop", often see smoke and the piece can smell burned. You don't mention any of those symptoms, but if the cap was elsewhere in the circuit and small enough, you might not notice them.

It is amazing how tight the supply chain is in electronics. Back around 2000, processing chips became the bottleneck. You generally can't substitute those, so I had pieces for my stereo store on back order for months.

As we become a more connected society, we also become more dependent upon each other.


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## merlin50 (Oct 21, 2007)

Some of them pop but others just ooze and go out of tolerance. Heat seems to be a big issues in these failures and many of mine are in enclosed cabinets that probably contributes to their failure although one of them was in the open. I have surge protectors on them but who knows maybe the suppressors have bad components. The weakness in the supply chain are shocking and I guess we get what we pay for as most components are bought at cut rate prices to compete on price.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Keep in mind that the LG-manufactured H20-600 had an under-rated power supply, which caused those units to run very hot and fail early. That's fairly unique among DirecTV receivers, though.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

merlin50 said:


> Today NY Times writes of bad electrolytic capacitors in Dell and many other computers and I can't help but wonder if this is plaguing these receivers.


Probably not the same thing, but it seems pretty clear the build quality of mainstream consumer electronics just isn't that great. I'm sure corners are cut wherever possible. Instead of "over-building" circuits, they are "under-built" -- running too hot, which will almost certainly lead to premature failure. Electronics do not like heat.

It's amazing how short the life-span is for some of this stuff. Just last week, I had to get a new DSL modem as the old one konked out. The guy at the AT&T store said "yeah, they only last about three years." Three years?? That's a pretty poor design. I have audio equipment from the '70s that still works great. You would think the large electrolytic capacitors in the power supplies of some of these audio amps would have dried up a long time ago, but they're still holding a charge just fine. Barring a catastrophic failure, a well-designed piece of electronics should last for decades.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Not sure why the DirecTV boxes are dieing for you, but the Capacitors in the Dell PCs from the NYT article were from the late 90s to mid 2000s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Lee L said:


> Not sure why the DirecTV boxes are dieing for you, but the Capacitors in the Dell PCs from the NYT article were from the late 90s to mid 2000s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague


Well Dell PC's and especially their laptops had/have a terrible reputation for their fans not turning on, not turning fast enough or long enough and that equals toast for those caps. I went though 2 of their laptops in a 2 year span turns out the Smartstep was a Dumbstep for me, worst part was, they wouldn't acknowledge they had a defect and squashed all of the support topics about it so you couldn't see just how widespread the problem was or get help with it b/c 8 months after it's release replacement parts were no longer being made for it. Me thinks they knew they had a stinker there and didn't feel like they owed anyone-anything for their average 2K investment. No more Dells in this house.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

I had a HR20-700 that I got in March of 2009. It gradually began to stutter the video on playback which could be fixed by a reboot for a number of days. Eventually the fix time grew shorter, and by January of 2010 it started rebooting spontaneously. Ever curious, I popped the hood before I sent it back after getting a replacement, and the two large filter caps on the PS were both domed and bulging.

From this I concluded that ever increasing ripple in the DC was what might be causing these problems. Heat dries out caps, and their values change, and in a PS that means dirty power, which microprocessors abhor. And this is dirty DC, after any AC UPS, and a UPS can not help matters in such a case (other than to prevent surges, which can also damage caps).

But I am careful to keep DVRs and the like well ventilated, and I even put a $9 Walmart clip-on fan on the back of each DVR (and my AVR as well). But then this is the desert, and summer temps get to 90 inside when you are not there unless you are wasting power to keep the place cool when you are gone, so maybe that was a contribution. But then I have had 14 different DVRs since 1998, and this is the only case I have had of a heat-related or cap-related failure.

One of the issues is that caps should be 105-degree caps if they are meant to be in a hot enclosure. Many caps are only 85-degree caps. Sometimes when they run out of 105's they might put in 85's just to keep the assembly line moving. The caps in my '20-700 were 85's.

Bottom line, use fans and good ventilation, and if you have symptoms such as I had, failing PS caps could be the reason.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Ever curious, I popped the hood before I sent it back after getting a replacement, and the two large filter caps on the PS were both domed and bulging.


I'm surprised you took the risk in opening the case before you sent it back -- not sure what happens when they see the seal has been broken.

Using a fan sure does make a difference, especially on the HR20. The internal temp on mine averages a "cool" 106 with a fan sitting on top.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

TomCat said:


> I had a HR20-700 that I got in March of 2009. It gradually began to stutter the video on playback which could be fixed by a reboot for a number of days. Eventually the fix time grew shorter, and by January of 2010 it started rebooting spontaneously. Ever curious, I popped the hood before I sent it back after getting a replacement, and the two large filter caps on the PS were both domed and bulging.
> 
> From this I concluded that ever increasing ripple in the DC was what might be causing these problems. Heat dries out caps, and their values change, and in a PS that means dirty power, which microprocessors abhor. And this is dirty DC, after any AC UPS, and a UPS can not help matters in such a case (other than to prevent surges, which can also damage caps).
> 
> ...


They don't seem to like to make things that can withstand "Extreme" temps. I remember some of the earlier SWM LNBs couldn't handle temps below freezing. Come to Maine in the winter lol It will probably get below 0 lol


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## bubbagscotch (Nov 1, 2009)

I got this from a drd435rh review on the amazon's website definite capacitor failure:

"I got this unit to use with DirecTV in 2002. It performed very well. Occasionally, it crashed, and had to be unplugged for a few seconds to be reset. This happened only every few months, so it wasn't a big deal. Sometimes the box responded slowly to the remote, but it fixed itself after a few hours. The menu operation was close to perfect. I liked this practically trouble-free thing, until February 3, 2010.

That morning, I was in the office and heard what sounded like an M80 firecracker in the living room. The dog ran into the hallway in a panic. I went to see what made the noise. Smoke was pouring out of the DRD435RH receiver. The room was filled with it and it smelled really weird. I unplugged the very hot box, unhooked the cables and tossed it outside. I suspected a voltage hit, but nothing else was damaged. VCR, DVD, digital converter box, DVR, TV sets, computers, everything was fine. The UPS didn't beep or show anything wrong. The receiver simply chose that moment to explosively die. I looked inside and it was black and melted in places. It may have started a fire if I didn't work at home. As it is, the failure was mildly inconvenient and DirecTV is sending a new box. "


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

bubbagscotch said:


> ...I was in the office and heard what sounded like an M80 firecracker in the living room. The dog ran into the hallway in a panic. I went to see what made the noise. Smoke was pouring out of the DRD435RH receiver. The room was filled with it and it smelled really weird...


Well, it reminds me of the time I was fixing an old video monitor (at the time, it might have even been older than I was). I had just replaced a very large cap, yet I had no video at all (before at least I had rolling video). Confused by this I put my face very close to the circuit board, still plugged in to power. For about 20 seconds I hovered there, but everything seemed normal, so I pulled back up to a seated position. Not 5 seconds later, *BLAMMO!, *the cap exploded all over everything. But then there was a very good reason for that, which is that electrolytics are typically polarized, and I had put the cap in backwards (reversed polarity). The rest of the guys in my shop had a good laugh at that, and it took a couple of years to live that one down. Some guys still called me "Sparky" years later.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

videojanitor said:


> I'm surprised you took the risk in opening the case before you sent it back -- not sure what happens when they see the seal has been broken....


Well, they've had 6 months to complain, and I never heard a peep, so I guess now we know what happens. But then the sticker was only affixed to the lid, not the chassis as well.

But then I think they are not motivated to be hall monitors and force good customers to follow the spirit and the letter of their agreements simply on principle. In a perfect world they would _like _to do that, but the world is far from perfect. Other factors trump a little under-hood foolin' around. IOW, they have little to gain by scolding me for opening the case. Sure, they want to discourage that, but they won't risk that $112 a month I send them just on principle. Now if I had eaten a pizza in there and dripped special sauce over everything, that's different. But swapping a HDD or two, no problem, as long as it goes back in the shape you got if from them.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Now if I had eaten a pizza in there and dripped special sauce over everything, that's different. But swapping a HDD or two, no problem, as long as it goes back in the shape you got if from them.


HA! I can see it now ... the DVR arrives back and cheese is oozing from the vents ...

I have no doubt you are correct ... we all know that we're not supposed to monkey around inside these things, and there are plenty of warnings in this forum against that, but I have yet to hear anyone say they got dinged for it (which isn't to say it COULDN'T happen). Interesting that your sticker was only on the lid -- on both of my HR20s, it spans the chassis and the lid, making removal obvious.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Like PC's...power supply issues can play havoc with HD DVR performance and results.

Having seen a number of units inside over the years...the more recent ones seem to have some pretty solid power supplies.

The HR20's have been workhorses, but yes...some of those may be showing signs of their "age".


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

BattleZone said:


> Keep in mind that the LG-manufactured H20-600 had an under-rated power supply, which caused those units to run very hot and fail early. That's fairly unique among DirecTV receivers, though.


I've always wondered about UL's position on that box. It is in fact UL listed. But I could envision the right criteria where it could cause a house fire


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

ndole_mbnd said:


> I've always wondered about UL's position on that box. It is in fact UL listed. But I could envision the right criteria where it could cause a house fire


Well, The UL is probably about as affective as the Minerals Management Service. Bureacrats sitting around downloading porn and playing solitaire.


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## bubbagscotch (Nov 1, 2009)

TomCat said:


> Well, it reminds me of the time I was fixing an old video monitor (at the time, it might have even been older than I was). I had just replaced a very large cap, yet I had no video at all (before at least I had rolling video). Confused by this I put my face very close to the circuit board, still plugged in to power. For about 20 seconds I hovered there, but everything seemed normal, so I pulled back up to a seated position. Not 5 seconds later, *BLAMMO!, *the cap exploded all over everything. But then there was a very good reason for that, which is that electrolytics are typically polarized, and I had put the cap in backwards (reversed polarity). The rest of the guys in my shop had a good laugh at that, and it took a couple of years to live that one down. Some guys still called me "Sparky" years later.


That must have been hilarious. I can just picture you relaxing and all of a sudden kaboooooooooooooooooom! I can see why they call you sparky. Don't try that again unless you check those polarities on the capacitors.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

My very expensive samsung tv has been bit by the bad caps bug. TV was made a LNT4665 circa 2008

I had to take the thing apart, unsolder 6 caps from the power board, and replace them with beefier caps. 

The wife had a total COW when she walked in on the operation and I had the patient on the bed, with the back off, circuit boards lying on the pillows and tupperwares all over with different sized screws in them.

Tv is working great now 1+ year on.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> Interesting article in the NY Times.
> 
> I can't say anything about DirecTV's situation, but back around 2004, the time in question here, I heard about a big shortages of capacitors in the audio industry. Some companies ran into problems substituting smaller caps. More often, products were simply unavailable for months, waiting for a crucial part in order to be built.
> 
> ...


I wonder if this is the cause behind Samsung flatscreen capacitor problems made from 2007 onward.


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

netraa said:


> My very expensive samsung tv has been bit by the bad caps bug. TV was made a LNT4665 circa 2008
> 
> I had to take the thing apart, unsolder 6 caps from the power board, and replace them with beefier caps.
> 
> ...


That's the very thing I've been trying to get Samsung to own-up-to. They've extended the warranty twice to repair it.

I have a LNT-4665F and the TV will come on without the video. Low temps and high humidity seem to factor-in on whether the picture comes on when turned on the first time of each day. I have to let it sit powered-up or get the blow dryer out to get the video back. Once I have it back, it's fine for the day.

I had bought six 1000mF 35V caps to install but wanted Samsung to send me a new power supply to mod-it first. Now they're coming to my house again to start over after replacing everything a year ago for same problem!


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

@netraa

FYI - there is a class action lawsuit in progress against Samsung for the bad caps. 

Not at my desk; so, I can't give you a link. Google will probably find it or the Sammy section in avsforum.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I may be wrong, but I thought the Samsung thing was not so much that they used defective caps, but that they specified caps whose specs were not up to the task.

Most of the issues with caps from the early 2000s stem from badly made caps that initially speced out fine.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

TomCat said:


> Well, The UL is probably about as affective as the Minerals Management Service. Bureacrats sitting around downloading porn and playing solitaire.


Hardly, although a nice try at putting down an agency that everyone, but everyone, uses as the standard bearer. But it was a good, easy, cheap shot, if completely uninformed. 

UL is a rating agency. They set standards and test for them. Once a piece pass the tests, it gets their stamp of approval. It implies no long term warranty.

And it is a totally private company. No government involvement at all. In fact, manufacturers regularly ***** over the charges they get from UL to have a piece approved.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Ed Campbell said:


> @netraa
> 
> FYI - there is a class action lawsuit in progress against Samsung for the bad caps.
> 
> Not at my desk; so, I can't give you a link. Google will probably find it or the Sammy section in avsforum.


Yeah, that seem to have gotten Samsung attention in the States, but our Canadian brethren are being treated like they are the plague. Same for the Aussies. OTOH, countries with better consumer protection laws (UK & USA) are getting their Samsung LCD fixed.


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## fordguy (Jul 21, 2010)

Hi all
I'm repairing the power supply in my Dtv h20-600 receiver.My question,does anyone know the values of C105 on the power supply board?
If someone could just read me what it says that would help alot
Mine popped and i need to get it up and running again
Thanks in advance
fordguy


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Carl Spock said:


> Hardly, although a nice try at putting down an agency that everyone, but everyone, uses as the standard bearer. But it was a good, easy, cheap shot, if completely uninformed.
> 
> UL is a rating agency. They set standards and test for them. Once a piece pass the tests, it gets their stamp of approval. It implies no long term warranty.
> 
> And it is a totally private company. No government involvement at all. In fact, manufacturers regularly ***** over the charges they get from UL to have a piece approved.


I never implied it was a government agency, just that it was about as worthless as one, which I stand by.

But thanks for the stirring lecture on how UL works; I don't think I could have lived another minute without that helpful, yet completely off-topic tidbit. Glad you are so informed. Now, back under your bridge.

And congratulations, it takes a real expert to spot a cheap shot, although whether I actually took one is a matter of poorly-held opinion rather than a fact. Your completely-unsolicited drive-by opinionated post is a perfect example of how expert you are. No flies on you, apparently.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

fordguy said:


> Hi all
> I'm repairing the power supply in my Dtv h20-600 receiver.My question,does anyone know the values of C105 on the power supply board?


The only thing printed on that cap is 0.01 -- I assume this is .01uF. It also says "630MKT," but that doesn't seem to mean anything. No operating voltage is specified.


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## fordguy (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks for the reply videojanitor.
Is it a brown capacitor? Just wondering if its been replaced with an upgraded unit
any way for you to send me pic of the area of the board its in?
mine says MKT on it as well,but the rest is unreadable
thanks


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

fordguy said:


> Is it a brown capacitor? Just wondering if its been replaced with an upgraded unit
> any way for you to send me pic of the area of the board its in?


It is orange. Pic below -- it's right in the dead center. Hope this helps.


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## fordguy (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey man,thanks a lot!
I got her going again after sitting for a month.I figured 0.01 was 0.01 microfarads,so i got a new one good to 230v.Popped her in and so far so good!

Just goes to show how a cheap small part will so easily take out an electronic device.Save a few pennies when its built and the unit gets a bad wrap (from what i've read on the internet).I don't remember changing these things in the early nineties,we'd be taking old units off of scrap boards we had kicking around.
Again,thanks for your quick help! Saved me buying a used unit for parts.

Fordguy


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

videojanitor said:


> The only thing printed on that cap is 0.01 -- I assume this is .01uF. It also says "630MKT," but that doesn't seem to mean anything. No operating voltage is specified.


This is an old thread, but for anyone with the same problem, this is a 0.01µF, 10%, 630VDC, metalized polyester film capacitor. By the appearance it's in the gate drive circuit of the SMPS power supply.

An appropriate replacement would be a Panasonic ECQ-E6103KF, they are available from distributors such as DigiKey for under $.50.

PlainBill


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

I had a similar problem with my HR20-700. It first manifested itself as stuttering during playback. Since I had upgraded the internal drive to a 1 Terrabyte drive 3 years ago, I had assumed the replacement drive was developing problems. Since the replacement drive was full  I elected to upgrade to a 2 Terrabyte drive. Initially, that worked well, but after a few months the problem resurfaced. At this time I took a closer look at the power supply area and realized that the drives weren't dying, they were being killed!! Note the three caps on the right in the picture.

A closer examination showed the caps were United Chemi-Con KZG series. United Chemi-Con is a respected Japanese capacitor manufacturer (Panasonic and Nichicon are two others), but their KZG series has been 'problematic'. I ordered Nichicon HM series from Digi-Key (less than $10.00, including USPS First Class Mail shipping). After replacing all 5 KZG caps I found the two in the signal processing area were fine, reading 0.01 on an ESR meter (spec is 0.013). However the three in the power supply area were 'slightly' out of spec. One read over 100 ohms, the other two were in the 80 - 90 ohm area. 

At this point the DVR has been working well for over a month.

PlainBill


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Any such capacitor with bulged top MUST BE replaced, regardless of measuring.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

bubbagscotch said:


> That must have been hilarious. I can just picture you relaxing and all of a sudden kaboooooooooooooooooom! I can see why they call you sparky. Don't try that again unless you check those polarities on the capacitors.


Kaboom isn 't quite it...a very loud BAAAP is more like it. I was working in an engineering department looking at failed navcom units....someone put an electrolytic cap in backwards (as TomCat noted above), and while I was probing around measuring voltages...it went off...I mean really OFF, with a very sharp BAAAP, bouncing one of many parts off the room's roof.

Makes one cautious...and in most cases, a finger test of components would have detected the problem long before it fired off, but I wasn't bright enough to do that.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> I'm surprised you took the risk in opening the case before you sent it back -- not sure what happens when they see the seal has been broken.


Oh please...  Do you really think anyone actually looks at the seals on these things when they come back? Two of my refurbs did not even have seals on them when I got them.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Carl Spock said:


> Interesting article in the NY Times.
> 
> I can't say anything about DirecTV's situation, but back around 2004, the time in question here, I heard about a big shortages of capacitors in the audio industry. Some companies ran into problems substituting smaller caps. More often, products were simply unavailable for months, waiting for a crucial part in order to be built.
> 
> ...


I'm not amazed at all; just-in-time inventory is a trend sweeping everything as a cost-cutting measure.

And you won't hear a cap "go" if you are not in the vicinity (although trees that fall in the woods only make a sound if someone is there to hear it, that is if you categorize sound as a perception rather than an event). But as Merlin states, most don't "go" anywhere. They may ooze, but a decrease in value is what happens first, followed by doming, then oozing, a process that can take years to manifest completely. They probably don't explode unless you experience a large voltage spike, or you wire them in backwards (guilty as charged...I moved my face from 5 inches away about 10 seconds before one I had put in backwards went off like a cherry bomb :nono2

Bottom line, a visual inspection will only determine a visual problem, and bad caps might not appear bad. That said, I have had HR20's that went into spontaneous reboot and when I popped the hood the filter caps were domed pretty badly, so it happens.

I think the 2004 issue you speak of was not a shortage of caps _per se,_ but a shortage of 105-degree caps. To fill the gap, lots of 85-degree caps of the same microfarad values were installed where they should not have been, not so much "smaller" caps. Installing smaller caps normally does not even work, and would be borderline criminal.

All electronics really should have hi-temp caps these days if the device is expected to last for the warantee shelf life. Have you checked what the temp inside a DVR normally is? High enough to dry out an 85-degree cap significantly earlier than a 105-degree cap. This is why I keep harping on adding extra air flow when possible.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

PlainBill said:


> I had a similar problem with my HR20-700. It first manifested itself as stuttering during playback. Since I had upgraded the internal drive to a 1 Terrabyte drive 3 years ago, I had assumed the replacement drive was developing problems. Since the replacement drive was full  I elected to upgrade to a 2 Terrabyte drive. Initially, that worked well, but after a few months the problem resurfaced. At this time I took a closer look at the power supply area and realized that the drives weren't dying, they were being killed!! Note the three caps on the right in the picture.
> 
> A closer examination showed the caps were United Chemi-Con KZG series. United Chemi-Con is a respected Japanese capacitor manufacturer (Panasonic and Nichicon are two others), but their KZG series has been 'problematic'. I ordered Nichicon HM series from Digi-Key (less than $10.00, including USPS First Class Mail shipping). After replacing all 5 KZG caps I found the two in the signal processing area were fine, reading 0.01 on an ESR meter (spec is 0.013). However the three in the power supply area were 'slightly' out of spec. One read over 100 ohms, the other two were in the 80 - 90 ohm area.
> 
> ...


Nicely done, Bill, saved your recordings that way, Ill bet.

For those who want a graphic explanation of what I referred to earlier as "doming", the way the light reflects off the top of these caps is a pretty good example. If it ain't flat, you've lost much of the original value and they are probably leaky (votage-wise) to boot. You don't need a cap meter to figure that out, either. Just "run the caps" (replace them all) like Bill did.


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

TomCat said:


> Nicely done, Bill, saved your recordings that way, Ill bet.
> 
> For those who want a graphic explanation of what I referred to earlier as "doming", the way the light reflects off the top of these caps is a pretty good example. If it ain't flat, you've lost much of the original value and they are probably leaky (votage-wise) to boot. You don't need a cap meter to figure that out, either. Just "run the caps" (replace them all) like Bill did.


I did when the 1Tbyte started acting up, but I didn't react in time when the 2 Tbyte went south. The 1 Tbyte drive checked out perfectly when I ran Seagate's low level surface scan on it, and I have used it for a variety of other tasks. The 2Tbyte was totally hosed - the Western Digital diagnostics said it was unrepairable, and I received a replacement drive - a WD20EADS under warranty. Considering how bad the caps were, the fact the DVR worked at all is a testimonial to the quality of the design.

I'm active on badcaps.net, coaching others on LCD monitor and TV repair. There a constant problem is low quality caps - CapXon, Elite, Lelon, etc. One point we make repeatedly is that replacing only the worst caps is a waste of time. The others are just as old, and probably will fail fairly soon. The best that can happen is you will have to repair it again, the worst is that you will have sold it, and the buyer will complain loud and long about the rip-off. In this case, it was a highly regarded manufacturer who had problems with a single series of caps.

PlainBill


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## billgrayny (Jan 20, 2007)

Plain Bill,

I have the same playback issue with my HR20-700 recveiver.

What is the capacitance value of the caps you replaced?

I am not at home right now and can't check out the receiver but I want to get the parts on order.

Thanks.


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

billgrayny said:


> Plain Bill,
> 
> I have the same playback issue with my HR20-700 recveiver.
> 
> ...


They are 2200µF, 6.3 volt. Now I would like to throw a little cold water on your enthusiasm.

This is not a trivial project; thousands (millions?) of people have the skills to work at this level; many more do not. If you managed to solder two wires together in high school 20 years ago, you are going to have to refresh your skills. If you have recapped the power supplies in a couple of LCD monitors, this will be slightly more difficult. If you just finished successfully recapping the motherboard in a notebook computer, you are ready.

For anyone who wants to try this, here are a few pointers. First, the caps. Don't go down to Radio shack and expect to buy the parts; the same applies for Fry's Electronics, Amazon, and your local TV shop. Ebay may also be a trap. From those with more experience than I, most of the capacitor sellers on eBay are selling counterfeit caps.

These are ultra low ESR capacitors; equivalent to those used on high end motherboards. Using anything less will probably not work, and will void your warranty. I purchased Nichicon HM series caps UHM0J222MPD from Digi-Key (P/N UHM0J222MPD-ND). They will cost $.67 each; USPS First Class Mail shipping will cost about $2.75 and get the package to you in two days. Mouser has them a little cheaper, but their low cost shipping option is Priority Mail, which will cost more. There are a total of 5 in the DVR; the three in the power supply MUST be replaced, I would suggest replacing those in the adjacent board also.

Getting the board out is not easy - first you must pull the drive, then remove over a dozen additional screws. Fortunately, the back panel of the chassis come off after you remove the screws and nuts. Don't forget to unplug all the cables.

These are multi-layer PC boards; a 27 watt soldering iron isn't going to cut it; I used a 45 watt and that was marginal. After removing the old caps, I reheated the solder and used a dissecting pick to clear the hole.

When replacing the caps, there is one trap for the unwary. US made radial caps marked the positive side; Asian made caps mark the negative side, and the PC boards also shade the negative side. The boards in this DVR have the POSITIVE side shaded - there is even a + mark to guide you.

Reassembly is the reverse of the disassembly. Make sure you line up the cables correctly and slide them into the slots evenly; don't force them. With luck you won't wind up with extra screws or searching for the retainer nut that slithered under the chair.

PlainBill


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## billgrayny (Jan 20, 2007)

Thanks for the data PlainBill,

I am an EE and have been building ham radio projects since the 50's, so I will wade in intrepidly, but forewarned by you.

I'll get the parts on order and will check the tops of my caps when I get back home in early December and have at it then!

Thanks.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Also, spending $100 for ESR meter kit, you would get the important value [ESR] of each capacitor without taking it out of PCB. Because some of them looks OK, but aging and raise ESR to out of specs, hence PS developing high level of noise on DC rails and overheating the capacitors and other components.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

"PlainBill" said:


> They are 2200µF, 6.3 volt. Now I would like to throw a little cold water on your enthusiasm.
> 
> This is not a trivial project; thousands (millions?) of people have the skills to work at this level; many more do not. If you managed to solder two wires together in high school 20 years ago, you are going to have to refresh your skills. If you have recapped the power supplies in a couple of LCD monitors, this will be slightly more difficult. If you just finished successfully recapping the motherboard in a notebook computer, you are ready.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. You helped me out with some info i was needing. I've soldered and worked with electronics before. Not on a grand scale. But i know my way around. I agree on what caps to buy. Cheap caps are not worth it. Too easy to loose their value or if in a HV setup cause a total failure and overload what might be 40v dc to higher. I say the same for resistors too. I will ask is it worth bumping up the uF if the voltage remains the same?


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Also, spending $100 for ESR meter kit, you would get the important value [ESR] of each capacitor without taking it out of PCB. Because some of them looks OK, but aging and raise ESR to out of specs, hence PS developing high level of noise on DC rails and overheating the capacitors and other components.


Depending on the operation, an ESR meter can be a colossal waste of money, or a vital tool. (There is also the issue that you can buy an excellent ESR / Capacitance meter for well under $100). The fact is in 80% of the cases an ESR meter is a waste of money. If the cap is bulging, or if it's a Lelon, CapXon, Elite, or one of the other 'replace on sight' brands, or even if the symptoms scream 'bad cap', replace them all. I just did a complete recap of the power supply in a 19" LCD TV, total parts cost was about $10, including shipping.

Now in those circumstances where a bad cap MIGHT be responsible (two seconds to black, a balky 32" or larger TV), an ESR meter can give a quick answer, and avoid pulling an LCD panel apart to check the CCFLs.

PlainBill


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## PlainBill (Jan 5, 2007)

xmguy said:


> Thanks for the info. You helped me out with some info i was needing. I've soldered and worked with electronics before. Not on a grand scale. But i know my way around. I agree on what caps to buy. Cheap caps are not worth it. Too easy to loose their value or if in a HV setup cause a total failure and overload what might be 40v dc to higher. I say the same for resistors too. I will ask is it worth bumping up the uF if the voltage remains the same?


I'd keep the same voltage and capacitance. Let's face the facts; the designs of consumer electronics coming out of the Far East are better than many commercial grade US products of two decades ago. Where the imported products fail big time is the quality of the components. If you open any LCD monitor that has been made in China odd are you will find it uses CapXon caps - and if the monitor is more than 3 years old the odds are some will be bulging. The problem with the caps in my DVR was a design or process error in one series of caps by a very reputable manufacturer.

PlainBill


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Guys, at this point I need to remind all of you not to open leased receivers. It's against your customer agreement and I don't want that sort of talk here.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

yeah, that STB lease's trap definitely killing local service - we could fix such problem pretty quick and for reasonable price... monopoly, as usual ...


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