# Dish Pro Plus LNB



## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Hello, does anyone know if the DP Plus Model AK72-BTE-ES LNB mounted on a 20" Dish 500 dish should work with a VIP 211K receiver for aiming at the 119 and 110 orbital locations? I have been trying to get a signal from either location with no luck. I have turned the dish over 50 degrees left and right and moved the elevation up and down but nothing. When I turned it more to the west, I did get a signal locked from 129 but of course, the signal screen keeps saying Wrong Satellite 129 since I have the dish pointing screen set to 119. I do have the tilt to the correct angle for my zipcode.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

winter60 said:


> Hello, does anyone know if the DP Plus Model AK72-BTE-ES LNB mounted on a 20" Dish 500 dish should work with a VIP 211K receiver for aiming at the 119 and 110 orbital locations?


Assuming that the LNB is functional and the dish and cabling are good, it is a standard issue LNB for the Dish500.


> I have been trying to get a signal from either location with no luck.


This is typically the result of one or more of a few things:

using the wrong elevation or reading the elevation scale incorrectly
not having a plumb mast
dead LNB
bent dish, arm or mount
bad cabling or bad termination of the cable
I recommend that you visit DishPointer - Align your satellite dish and get the most accurate aiming parameters for the location of your dish. Dial in the elevation and skew before you mount the dish and then lower it onto a plumb mast.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Begin with Az/El settings from dishppointer site - print the map to visualize the LOS from your roof, cover by alum [kitchen] foil that LNBF what would look at 110W, then aim other LNBF to 119W


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## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Thank you both for your replies. I was finally able to get it aimed late last night after repeated tries. I had to set the elevation higher than what the listing showed for my zip code. As soon as I did that, I was able to lock in on both 119 and 110. Maybe my mounting bracket was not totally vertical, although I did mount it using a level.

At any rate, all is now working. Thank you again for your assistance.


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## cableview (10 mo ago)

Glad to see you resolved this issue, just figured I'd give the suggestion to upgrade to a 1000.2 dish, or at least a 1000.4 dish, if possible. Dish 500s are becoming legacy, and with just orbitals 110W and 119W, you are likely not getting much HD programming. Maybe you don't mind or don't care about it, but upgrading to getting 61.5 and 72.7 orbitals will allow you to get much more HD programming, same with if you can get orbital 129. Just a recommendation


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cableview said:


> Glad to see you resolved this issue, just figured I'd give the suggestion to upgrade to a 1000.2 dish, or at least a 1000.4 dish, if possible.


The Dish 1000.4 Western Arc was essentially recalled by DISH in favor of the DISH 1000.2 WA. My local dealer bought a bunch of 1000.4 WA dishes and DISH wouldn't allow him to use them.


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## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Cableview, thanks for the reply.

Actually I already have a Wally HD receiver installed with a 1000.2 dish that Dish Network installed. I wanted the VIP112K receiver for an older analog SD tube television that I use to watch old B&W programs and SD channels. Since my Dish Installer installed the 1000.2 system with a single line to the Wally, he said that if I want to upgrade to multiple receivers, I would have to swap out the Wally for a Hopper (Host) and Joey(s) (Client receivers). I still had a Dish 500 (from back when I had Dish 10 years ago and a 322 SD receiver) so I decided to get a VIP211K and wire it directly to the Dish 500. So now I have two dishes on my house; the 1000.2 for the Wally and the Dish 500 for the VIP112K.

I do have one question: If down the road I decide I want to use the VIP112K for HD, can I change the Dish 500 to a Dish 1000.2 so I can get all 3 satellites (110, 119, 129)? I looked on Amazon and see they have a Dish 1000.2 but they state it is NOT compatible with any VIP or older receivers:

Search on Amazon for a Dish Network 1000.2 dish and scroll to the bottom of the page and you will see the following message: "THIS LISTING IS FOR THE HYBRID 1000.2, DESIGN SOLELY FOR THE NEW HOPPER ONLY. WILL NOT WORK FOR VIP MODEL K MODEL, Z SERIES, AND ALL OTHER OLDER MODELS. NO OPTION TO EXCHANGE OR ALTERNATION TO ORDER WILL BE ACCEPTED"

Any idea why this is stated? Would the dish still work with my VIP112K if I just used it as the sole receiver connected to it?

Thank you.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> The Dish 1000.4 Western Arc was essentially recalled by DISH in favor of the DISH 1000.2 WA. My local dealer bought a bunch of 1000.4 WA dishes and DISH wouldn't allow him to use them.


Our 1000.4 has been great for our mobile lifestyle because it's sturdier than the 1000.2 and easier to aim. I switch between WA and EA LNB's regularly for the best aiming angles, and I have the dish configured for a no tools needed setup. Every Dish installer I've ever met preferred installing 1000.4's over 1000.2's.


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## cableview (10 mo ago)

winter60 said:


> Cableview, thanks for the reply.
> 
> Actually I already have a Wally HD receiver installed with a 1000.2 dish that Dish Network installed. I wanted the VIP112K receiver for an older analog SD tube television that I use to watch old B&W programs and SD channels. Since my Dish Installer installed the 1000.2 system with a single line to the Wally, he said that if I want to upgrade to multiple receivers, I would have to swap out the Wally for a Hopper (Host) and Joey(s) (Client receivers). I still had a Dish 500 (from back when I had Dish 10 years ago and a 322 SD receiver) so I decided to get a VIP211K and wire it directly to the Dish 500. So now I have two dishes on my house; the 1000.2 for the Wally and the Dish 500 for the VIP112K.
> 
> ...


That listing is likely for what is called a Hybrid LNB. Hybrid LNBs are INTENDED for use on the Hopper system, but I've seen them work with some success on ViP. You could likely remove the Dish 500 right now, actually. No need to put up another. If the LNB on the 1000.2 Dish indicates "DPPlus" on it, you can actually hook the line from the ViP211k directly into it. Wallys work on essentially the exact same setup as all 211 models.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> Every Dish installer I've ever met preferred installing 1000.4's over 1000.2's.


There's no doubt that the 1000.4 is dream by comparison given the more precise adjustment capability but in certain regions of the Western Arc (the Pacific Northwet?), its real-world performance was discovered to be suboptimal and DISH made a policy prohibiting installers from using it. I'm not sure what the regional scope of this prohibition was.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> There's no doubt that the 1000.4 is dream by comparison given the more precise adjustment capability but in certain regions of the Western Arc (the Pacific Northwet?), its real-world performance was discovered to be suboptimal and DISH made a policy prohibiting installers from using it. I'm not sure what the regional scope of this prohibition was.


That makes no sense since the 1000.4 has a slightly larger area than the 1000.2 and a nearly identical LNB setup. If a 1000.2 works there a 1000.4 should work as well if not slightly better. My guess would be that the 1000.4 was dropped because it cost more to manufacture.


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## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Cableview, thanks again for the reply but you have me confused. You said I could probably just plug the VIP211K into the 1000.2 dish (that is used for my Wally) but this dish has only a single dedicated line coming down and it runs directly from the 1000.2 dish to the Wally. I think the Dish Network installer said if I want to go multiple receivers, he would splice into this single LNB run with a Hybrid Solo Hub that would then go to a Hopper (Host) and could then use my existing house cables as MoCA and to Joey(s) (Client). The Wally would then have to go.

I can't see what type of 1000.2 LNB he used as this dish is mounted up on my roof. My Dish 500 is mounted on the side of my deck and is waist level. This 500 dish uses a DPP Twin LNB.

If in the future, I want to get a 1000.2 dish for my VIP211K, what type of LNB would I need for it?

Thank you.


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## cableview (10 mo ago)

winter60 said:


> Cableview, thanks again for the reply but you have me confused. You said I could probably just plug the VIP211K into the 1000.2 dish (that is used for my Wally) but this dish has only a single dedicated line coming down and it runs directly from the 1000.2 dish to the Wally. I think the Dish Network installer said if I want to go multiple receivers, he would splice into this single LNB run with a Hybrid Solo Hub that would then go to a Hopper (Host) and could then use my existing house cables as MoCA and to Joey(s) (Client). The Wally would then have to go.
> 
> I can't see what type of 1000.2 LNB he used as this dish is mounted up on my roof. My Dish 500 is mounted on the side of my deck and is waist level. This 500 dish uses a DPP Twin LNB.
> 
> ...


You can hook the line coming from the Dish 500 LNB into the 1000.2 Dish, on port 2 of the LNB. This would allow you to use both with the HD 1000.2 Dish. The only reason the installer wouldn't have done this is because Dish doesn't support installing different generations of receivers on the same dish, but this is just an installer regulation, it will work fine as a system.


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## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Oh, OK thanks. The only problem is my dish 1000.2 is way up on my roof and my roof is too steep for me to climb up to. So again, if I opt for a Dish 1000.2 for my VIP211Km do I just need a DPP triple LNB (vs the Hybrid LNB that is probably on my roof dish)?


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

winter60 said:


> Oh, OK thanks. The only problem is my dish 1000.2 is way up on my roof and my roof is too steep for me to climb up to. So again, if I opt for a Dish 1000.2 for my VIP211Km do I just need a DPP triple LNB (vs the Hybrid LNB that is probably on my roof dish)?


A DPP triple LNB for the western arc or a DPP dual eastern arc LNB will work fine with your 211K and only needs a single coax run from the dish to the receiver.


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## cableview (10 mo ago)

winter60 said:


> Oh, OK thanks. The only problem is my dish 1000.2 is way up on my roof and my roof is too steep for me to climb up to. So again, if I opt for a Dish 1000.2 for my VIP211Km do I just need a DPP triple LNB (vs the Hybrid LNB that is probably on my roof dish)?





NYDutch said:


> A DPP triple LNB for the western arc or a DPP dual eastern arc LNB will work fine with your 211K and only needs a single coax run from the dish to the receiver.


Yes I agree with NYDutch's assessment. Is Western Arc or Eastern Arc what you usually see in your area? Western arc has 3 eyes while Eastern arc has 2. You'll want to go with whatever is more common because some areas only have locals on one orbital, or only one contains the HD locals.

Also, the 1000.2 existing dish is likely DPP, as it is standard to install Wallys on them. Whatever you decide to go with, best of luck and if you need help buying an LNB, I have many extras I could sell to you for a discounted rate.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> That makes no sense since the 1000.4 has a slightly larger area than the 1000.2 and a nearly identical LNB setup.


It made no sense to my local dealer either, but he was stuck with a couple dozen 1000.4WA models.

I suspect that there was something about the LNB and satellite spacing that just didn't work out.


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## winter60 (10 mo ago)

Thank you all for your replies.

To reiterate though. I do already have a 1000.2 WA dish installed by Dish and it has 3 LNBs.. It is a WA because I was with him when he installed it. Here in the Twin Cities Minnesota, our locals are on both the WA (129) and EA. He looked at both and decided I did not have a LOS to the EA orbital positions so we went with the the WA. (My neighbor across street who also has Dish also uses the WA). Locals are also a mute issue for me as I opted out of even getting them. I have multiple OTA antennas in my attic and get 43 local channels from the Twin Cities where as Dish only provides I think five. I also use a TiVo for recording OTA channels.

Even though I only have one Wally receiver, the Dish installer talked about how now they are using a newer install that only requires one cable feed. He emphasized that if I wanted to expand to multiple receivers in the future, I would have to go with a Hopper (which would be the host receiver) and Joey(s) (for client receivers) and that I could NOT keep the Wally as it is not compatible as a client receiver. Based on that, I am pretty sure he installed a WA Hybrid triple LNB and not a DPP. He showed me the different LNBs he had in his truck and said I would be getting newest technology.

Regarding my Dish 500. I wanted to be able to play with a VIP211K connected to an old Sony tube analog TV via composite connections so I did not need the HD channels on 129. That is why I am using the Dish 500. It works fine for this. I was only asking what LNB I would need for future use if down the road, my Sony analog tube set breaks and then I would decide to start using the VIP211K as a HD receiver.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> It made no sense to my local dealer either, but he was stuck with a couple dozen 1000.4WA models.
> 
> I suspect that there was something about the LNB and satellite spacing that just didn't work out.


In that case, the 1000.2 WA wouldn't work either. The LNB focal points on their respective reflectors are the same. I hope your local dealer was smart enough to offer the 1000.4's on eBay or something. There was a good market for them for quite awhile. Heck, I bought and use three of them myself...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Other than the space occupied, there isn't a whole lot of advantage to using the DISH 500.

Any DishPro+ LNB will allow you to use only one cable for a ViP receiver or Wally.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> The LNB focal points on their respective reflectors are the same.


Given that the satellite spacing is different between EA and WA, I'm not convinced that the dish foci could be optimal for both LNBs.

Check online and see if you can find anyone reputable peddling a 1000.4 WA setup. Solid Signal offers what they call a 1000.3 but not a 1000.4. Amazon offers the 1000.2 WA.

The evidence seems to support that the 1000.4 WA is not the dish of choice on the Western Arc.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Given that the satellite spacing is different between EA and WA, I'm not convinced that the dish foci could be optimal for both LNBs.
> 
> Check online and see if you can find anyone reputable peddling a 1000.4 WA setup. Solid Signal offers what they call a 1000.3 but not a 1000.4. Amazon offers the 1000.2 WA.
> 
> The evidence seems to support that the 1000.4 WA is not the dish of choice on the Western Arc.


You mean like this one that I've used from coast to coast? I switch between WA and EA LNB's for the best aiming opportunities...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> You mean like this one that I've used from coast to coast? I switch between WA and EA LNB's for the best aiming opportunities...


Using something and it being optimal aren't the same thing. DISH chose the 1000.2 because it was better overall on the WA. If it weren't, you would expect to see more than just conversion kits.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Using something and it being optimal aren't the same thing. DISH chose the 1000.2 because it was better overall on the WA. If it weren't, you would expect to see more than just conversion kits.


What "conversion kits" are you talking about? That WA LNB was made for the 1000.4 and needed no "conversion" of any kind. The only "conversion" I made to my travel 1000.4 was swapping out the hex nuts for oversized wing nuts for a no tools setup and aiming. How "optimal" do you consider the signal strengths I typically see in the 70's to low 80's here on the east coast using the 1000.4 WA LNB?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

NYDutch said:


> What "conversion kits" are you talking about?


HE IS TALKING ABOUT EVERITHING HE KNOWS OR NOT ! Always ! Each day...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> What "conversion kits" are you talking about?


Bare 1000.4 WA LNBs. Since 1000.4 WA dish setups from reputable dealers are hard to find, you have to roll your own as you've done.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Bare 1000.4 WA LNBs. Since 1000.4 WA dish setups from reputable dealers are hard to find, you have to roll your own as you've done.


I didn't "roll my own" at all except for the no tools mod. The WA LNB I use was made for the 1000.4 and purchased from Solid Signal in 2014. Of course 1000.4 dish dealer setups are hard to find for either arc now since Dish discontinued the 1000.4 line some years ago. Given the difference in construction materials and quality versus the 1000.2, I suspect cost was the reason for dropping it. Ease of adjustment isn't worth much when the vast majority of the installs are one timers.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> dish dealer setups are hard to find for either arc now since Dish discontinued the 1000.4 line some years ago.


I see where Solid Signal has de-listed the 1000.4 EA antenna system since I last visited the site. They still offer the reflectors as a "DISH Network Dish1000.4 Eastern Arc Satellite Dish" which seems rather specific for a dish that "goes both ways".

Is it reasonable to guess that Solid Signal's DISH 1000.3 antenna system is a 1000.2 with the hybrid LNB assembly?


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> I see where Solid Signal has de-listed the 1000.4 EA antenna system since I last visited the site. They still offer the reflectors as a "DISH Network Dish1000.4 Eastern Arc Satellite Dish" which seems rather specific for a dish that "goes both ways".
> 
> Is it reasonable to guess that Solid Signal's DISH 1000.3 antenna system is a 1000.2 with the hybrid LNB assembly?


The 1000.4 is no different that the 1000.2 in that respect. Both work perfectly well on either arc with the appropriate LNB installed.

Yes, SS's so called model 1000.3 is just a 1000.2 with a DPH LNB. Just to confuse you even more though, a 1000.4 with either a WA or EA DPP LNB also works well with hybrid receiver's with the addition of a DPH42 switch.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> I see where Solid Signal has de-listed the 1000.4 EA antenna system since I last visited the site. They still offer the reflectors as a "DISH Network Dish1000.4 Eastern Arc Satellite Dish" which seems rather specific for a dish that "goes both ways".


Described as "The DISH 1000.4 Eastern Arc provides reception from the 110°, 119° and 129° DBS orbital locations ..."
Seems like an error.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> Described as "The DISH 1000.4 Eastern Arc provides reception from the 110°, 119° and 129° DBS orbital locations ..."


Where did you see that?


> Seems like an error.


This is what I call a "spreadsheet error". Copy and paste kills.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Where did you see that?
> 
> This is what I call a "spreadsheet error". Copy and paste kills.


Read the description:









DISH Network Dish1000.4 Eastern Arc Satellite Dish Antenna - LNB NOT INCLUDED







www.solidsignal.com





Notice that the URL for that page says: "www.solidsignal.com/DISH-Network-*Dish1000.4-Western-Arc-Satellite-Dish*-Antenna-LNB-NOT-INCLUDED" (emphasis added)

The fact that Dish supplied both eastern and western arc LNB's for the 1000.4 should tell you something about how they expected it to be used. You do know that both arcs are viewable from nearly the entire lower 48 states barring local interference, don't you? Only northern Maine is difficult for the WA since it's on the footprint fringe. Again, barring local interference...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> The fact that Dish supplied both eastern and western arc LNB's for the 1000.4 should tell you something about how they expected it to be used.


Design intent isn't as telling as policy or long-term practice.

To me, the fact that the page text differs from the URL informs that the attitude towards using the 1000.4 on the WA changed since the 1000.4 pages were introduced.


> You do know that both arcs are viewable from nearly the entire lower 48 states barring local interference, don't you?


Most certainly. I also understand that the spacing between satellites is decidedly different depending on where you are located. At the same time, the reflector foci (assuming they exist) spacing and the LNB feed horn spacing can't change so they are rarely optimal.

The Eastern Arc is east of CONUS (other than New England) while the Western Arc is centered over Somis, CA. Eastern Arc views typically show the satellites as being closer together given the look angle even though the spacing on the Clarke Belt is greater.

The view angle between 110W and 129W in Minot, ND is 23.5 degrees as seen by the dish. The spacing in Somis is 33.1 degrees. 9.6 degrees is a substantial range that must be covered. We understand from our C-band brethren that the larger the dish, the tighter the focus and that clearly doesn't help matters. It follows that the range may have proved to be too much for universal use of a more selective dish.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Design intent isn't as telling as policy or long-term practice.
> 
> To me, the fact that the page text differs from the URL informs that the attitude towards using the 1000.4 on the WA changed since the 1000.4 pages were introduced.
> Most certainly. I also understand that the spacing between satellites is decidedly different depending on where you are located. At the same time, the reflector foci (assuming they exist) spacing and the LNB feed horn spacing can't change so they are rarely optimal.
> ...


But more to the point you've been claiming for the 1000.4, is that the 1000.2 is subject to exactly the same constraints, the fixed position LNB's for either arc. Yet the 1000.2 is also used universally, so shouldn't it have the same spacing issue? If not, why not. You do know the focal point of an oval multi-satellite parabolic dish is not on the reflector I hope.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> But more to the point you've been claiming for the 1000.4, is that the 1000.2 is subject to exactly the same constraints, the fixed position LNB's for either arc. Yet the 1000.2 is also used universally, so shouldn't it have the same spacing issue? If not, why not.


As explained in the last paragraph that you quoted, the 1000.2 is a smaller dish and thus not as injured by the variance in angles.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> As explained in the last paragraph that you quoted, the 1000.2 is a smaller dish and thus not as injured by the variance in angles.


Oh my, do you really think the inch or so difference in the two reflector dimensions makes a significant difference in that respect???

*Dish 1000.2 19"H x 24"W
Dish 1000.4 20.8"H x 22.3"W
*
The slightly larger 1000.4 reflector and longer arm does give it a little more circular signal capture area than the 1000.2 to focus the signals on the LNBF antennas. The elliptical parabola design manages the spacing variations with each feedhorn correcting any minor variations in the focal points on either dish just as it's designed to do.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> To me, the fact that the page text differs from the URL informs that the attitude towards using the 1000.4 on the WA changed since the 1000.4 pages were introduced.


A mistake on one re-seller's website is not indicative of official DISH policy.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> A mistake on one re-seller's website is not indicative of official DISH policy.


Remember who brought it up.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> Remember who brought it up.


Dish discontinued the more expensive 1000.4 in 2016. What's your point again?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

NYDutch said:


> What's your point again?


His point is do posting, posting, posting...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> Dish discontinued the more expensive 1000.4 in 2016. What's your point again?


My point was that before the 1000.4 was discontinued, DISH established a policy that it would not be used in Western Arc installations.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> Remember who brought it up.


You did. You linked the website with the mistake.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

harsh said:


> My point was that before the 1000.4 was discontinued, DISH established a policy that it would not be used in Western Arc installations.


In 2016 Dish quit using the 1000.4 for any installations. If your dealer buddy had any smarts, he would have sold all those excess 1000.4's you claim he was stuck with to independent dealers that aren't bound by what Dish puts on work orders for their installers. You still have not shown any evidence of a stated policy not to use them though, nor was there any need for one since the 1000.4 was no longer be used once existing stocks were gone. If Dish didn't want existing stock used they likely would have offered a buy back program.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The satellites are 25,000 miles up there and the slight difference in distance between south Texas and upper Michigan or Maine is insignificant with respect to the overall distance. The fact that the WA lnb is capable of receiveig EA 61.5 and 72.7 signals although at a lower signal level is indicative of how much room for error is built into these lnb's. The 1000.4 and 1000.2 lnbs are so much more laike that the WA triple lnb that there is virtually if not actually NO difference in signal strength gathered.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The biggest difference between Texas and Michigan and Maine is the footprint of the satellite. Even the CONUS beam has a footprint that is shaped. If one is outside or in a weaker area of the footprint one does not receive the same level of signal.

The biggest difference between a Western Arc LNB and an Eastern Arc LNB is the placement of the feed horns. Western Arc has three equally spaced horns ... the Eastern Arc LNB had (past tense) two horns closer together than the third. Since DISH stopped using the satellite at 77 they no longer need a three horn LNB (it still works, but only two feedhorns are needed).

DBS service satellite spacing does allow for a less accurate dish aiming than needed for Ka or regular Ku spaced satellites. The two degree spacing of other services requires a better focus on the receive dish and usually lower transmit power to prevent interference with neighbors. Do the math on aiming to each individual satellite from Texas and Michigan and you will see a difference in how far apart 61.5 and 72.7 are (or 110 to 119 to 129). Hint ... the distance apart from the ground is not the same as the orbital position. But with the power level and wide spacing a "southern US" LNB will work in the "northern US". Not the "center of the eye" in either location but still getting enough signal into each feed horn.


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