# I Switched to FiOS. Comparing the two providers...



## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

If you've read some of my previous posts, I mentioned that I was checking out FiOS. But since I have been very satisfied with DirecTV for 5 years, I wanted to compare the services side-by-side before deciding which service to keep. If money was the only concern, it would be a no-brainer - the FiOS Triple Play Bundle (TV, 35/35 Internet, and Digital Voice Phone) saves me an incredible amount of cash, even after the promotional period ends. But money isn't everything if I wasn't going to be happy with the service. After due deliberation, I finally chose FiOS. There were some tradeoffs, though. In comparing the two services, this is what I found:

Picture Quality: HD video is virtually identical between FiOS and DTV. No "HD-Lite" here. SD video is where FiOS really blows DTV out of the water. SD is actually watchable on FiOS, unlike DirecTV's over-compressed blur-o-vision. Advantage - FiOS

Basic Programming: Virtually all of the channels I watched regularly on DirecTV are also on FiOS. But FiOS has about 15 more basic channels in HD than DirecTV. Sadly, no BBC America or DIY Network, though on either. But since I am somewhat of a news hound, I like BBC World News, CNN International and ABC World News Now on FiOS (would like to see AlJazeera English, but it's not available). Also, FiOS carries my local CW and MyTV affiliates in HD and DirecTV does not. Advantage - FiOS

Premium Programming: I really don't watch much premium programming, but both providers seem to have a good selection of premiums. Advantage - Tie

Sports Programming: This is where DirecTV really shines. I'm now going to have to get my Sunday Ticket and MLB on my PS3, which will give me diminished PQ. Fortunately, FiOS does have all my regional sports networks (YES, MSG and SNY) in HD, though. Advantage - DirecTV

The Guide: I still cannot get used to the FiOS guide. I can't pinpoint exactly what is wrong with it, just that I simply don't like it. Maybe all the years of being familiar with DirecTV's guide has spoiled me. Add this to the fact that the SD and HD channels are separated (HD channels are in the 500+ range) and there is no option to hide SD duplicates, so surfing the FiOS guide is cumbersome, at best. Advantage - DirecTV

Equipment: The DirecTV equipment looks a lot nicer, but the FiOS boxes do their job, even if they are ugly. Multi-Room DVR works well on both providers, but the FiOS system is much quicker at accessing programming off the slave boxes. (I should note that there are only two of us in the house and we only DVR a few shows a week, so we don't need umpteen tuners or 150 hours of storage. In fact, I've figured out that if I don't watch a program within a few days of recording it, I probably won't ever bother.) The FiOS equipment is MUCH faster overall in changing channels. Comparing the two systems side by side you really realize how annoying the 3-4 second channel changes on the DirecTV boxes are when the FiOS changes channels almost instantly. VOD on FiOS starts much quicker than DirecTV as well. Advantage - FiOS, based on speed alone

Technology: I think DirecTV has the upper hand here. They seem to be introducing new equipment and features on a regular basis. Don't really know much about Verizon since I haven't had it that long, but when I heard they're going to stop FiOS expansion it makes me wonder about whether or not they are committed to updating their technology. As for existing technology, I have used the remote DVR scheduler apps on both services and have been happy with both. Advantage - DirecTV (I think)

Customer Service: Although I initially had a good experience with Verizon's CS, my opinion of them soured considerably when I had a billing problem. I was unable to access my bill online and my Auto-Pay wasn't working because my account number changed when I added phone and TV to my existing FiOS Internet (I was subsequently assessed a late charge even though I had no way to view or pay my bill). Over the course of a week, I was on the phone for literally hours with Verizon CS trying to rectify the problem. The worst time was when I kept getting transferred from department to department, with everyone clueless on how to help me; after over an hour on the phone I was transferred back to the department I had initially called! Finally the problem did get fixed, fortunately. Add this to the hour on hold trying to talk to a rep when there was a service outage - well, you get the picture... On the other hand, DirecTV's Customer Service reps have always been great, polite people every time I have had to call and have almost always resolved any problem in quick order. The only (minor) complaint I have with DirecTV's CS is having to play CS Roulette in order to get the best deal on programming. Advantage - DirecTV

So in the final analysis I feel there was no clear winner between the two services. In the end, I think I give FiOS a slight edge based on more basic HD and more watchable SD. Add that to the better pricing (although it was not the primary consideration, it was definitely a factor), and I made the switch to FiOS. I hope it's the right choice. It was a close call.

Remember, the choice I made is based on my needs only. Everyone else needs to determine what things are the most important to them before making their own choice. For example, if I needed several DVRs, DirecTV might be a better choice (Verizon wants upwards of $20/month extra for each additional DVR). If I were an absolute sports junkie, DirecTV would be my provider. The best choice for me might not be the best choice for someone else.

As for me, I'll still troll around the forums here and put my two cents in every now and then. Who knows - in a couple of years I might be back in the DirecTV fold! Bye for now...


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## bigtom (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for the objective comparison.

Would you care to share your programming plans between the two?

I also wonder if equipment comparision for speed would be much closer if the situation was reversed as in moving from more legacy FiOS equipment to top of the line DIRECTV.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

bigtom said:


> Thanks for the objective comparison.
> 
> Would you care to share your programming plans between the two?
> 
> I also wonder if equipment comparision for speed would be much closer if the situation was reversed as in moving from more legacy FiOS equipment to top of the line DIRECTV.


My DirecTV plan was the Plus HD DVR Package (grandfathered), HD Extra Pack, Showtime, Whole Home DVR with 4 total receivers plus the Protection Plan. Total cost = $137.96

My FiOS Triple Play plan is Extreme HD (includes Showtime, Cinemax, The Movie Channel & Flix), Whole Home DVR with 4 total receivers, 35/35 Internet plus Digital Voice Phone. Total cost = $102.05, after multiple promotional credits. After the promotions end, I believe my price will be about $180 + taxes and fees (tough for me to figure out exactly because different promotions have different durations).

Prior to bundling, I was paying $95 for FiOS Internet alone, $19/mo for a VOIP phone line plus the DirecTV. So this bundle is saving me a ton of money compared to what I was paying, even after the promotions end.

As for the equipment speed, from reading the FiOS forums I understand the older FiOS receivers are really sluggish when updated with the latest firmware. I also understand the latest DirecTV receiver (HR-34) is much faster than the older receivers which I had. But I can only compare the equipment I have actually used; I can only assume that if I had the HR-34 the equipment speed between the two providers would be closer.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Have done a similar DirecTV / FiOS comparison here.

Yep, the FiOS UI while pretty with lots of options, it just seems too cluttered at times, and it just seemed weird to have the current channel always in the middle of the guide.

Could also save a ton of $ here as well, but the HR34 is just too compelling.

When/if the rumored FiOS 6-tuner DVR is introduced late-2012 or TiVo introduces a successful extender box to complement multiple Premiere Elite's, really no competition here.

I need at least two 4-tuner DVRs each with at least 200 hours of HD, with PIP being icing on the cake, and MRV from every remote TV (5) ... with the HR34 and DirecTV MRV being the only capable solution at this time.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Wow really nice to see the comparison. Ive been thinking of coming to DTV (been with Dish 5 years now and am getting tired of it xD) but FiOS was a consideration too.

Just a quick question how much lower is the PQ for the ticket and mlb on the ps3 ive been thinking of ordering them.


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

Which version of Fios do you have...

Verizon Fios
or 
Frontier Fios


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

Inkosaurus said:


> Wow really nice to see the comparison. Ive been thinking of coming to DTV (been with Dish 5 years now and am getting tired of it xD) but FiOS was a consideration too.
> 
> Just a quick question how much lower is the PQ for the ticket and mlb on the ps3 ive been thinking of ordering them.


I have been watching the NHL on my PS3 and the PQ is not bad, but certainly not the pristine HD that DirecTV offers. It's certainly watchable, though. The closest thing I can describe it is that it almost looks like you're watching a game on film rather than a live broadcast And with high speed internet I get very few, if any, buffering dropouts.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

grcooperjr said:


> Which version of Fios do you have...
> 
> Verizon Fios
> or
> Frontier Fios


Verizon FiOS. I'm really not even familiar with Frontier FiOS.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Have done a similar DirecTV / FiOS comparison here.
> 
> Yep, the FiOS UI while pretty with lots of options, it just seems too cluttered at times, and it just seemed weird to have the current channel always in the middle of the guide.
> 
> ...


That $20/mo charge that Verizon gets for each additional DVR is way too steep IMHO. Fortunately the one DVR with Whole-Home capability works fine in my situation.


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## robl45 (Aug 5, 2004)

i've heard fios is nice, a friend has it over in tampa, they also mentioned the price of the boxes, they were saying like 15 a box, I almost spit out my drink when I heard that.

but I think you have the option of tivos or running through a computer with fios, thats what they were telling me with that.

as for the ondemand, i can tell you with uverse, the on demand is nice, its quick and loads up when it works. a lot of times I get its unavailable for some reason, other times it stops right in the middle and I have to start the program again. there are still commercials although not as many. Oh and there is a grand total of one HD station so its not that useful unfortunately.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimbo56 said:


> That $20/mo charge that Verizon gets for each additional DVR is way too steep IMHO. Fortunately the one DVR with Whole-Home capability works fine in my situation.


That would cost me $240 a month just for DVRs. Now that you've experienced the joy of calling Verizon and asking for help, you can see why I've never entertained the thought of using FIOS. Having a Verizon cell phone is bad enough.

Rich


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Great report by the OP. Matches my experience. I have both side by side. I use directv a lot more because the dvr is much better but for the most part it is a wash between the two. It depends on what you like on who is better.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

If anyone is curious what the Fios DVR interface looks like there are plenty of videos over at youtube. Just do a search for something like "fios dvr" and you'll get plenty of hits.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

mreposter said:


> If anyone is curious what the Fios DVR interface looks like there are plenty of videos over at youtube. Just do a search for something like "fios dvr" and you'll get plenty of hits.


At first glance, the FiOS GUI looks pretty nice. Once you try to use it, you realize what a PITA it is. Very cluttered, different channels have different colors for no apparent reason, the channel mapping is terrible, and PPVs are scattered throughout the guide randomly. The channel you're tuning to shows up in the middle of the guide, along with the program information (unlike DirecTv where the information shows up on top). Add that to the fact that the guide information does not always match the programming and it all adds up to an unpleasant experience. I can't believe that someone actually designed a guide so poorly.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

Rich said:


> That would cost me $240 a month just for DVRs. Now that you've experienced the joy of calling Verizon and asking for help, you can see why I've never entertained the thought of using FIOS. Having a Verizon cell phone is bad enough.
> 
> Rich


Whole-home HD DVRs are $20/month, while regular HD DVRs are $15. I don't know if every DVR besides the first one has to be a Whole-home model to make it work. Even at $15 each your bill can add up quickly.

Quick Verizon CS story: when I was having problems I had to call a department which closed at 8 pm. Since I work late, I couldn't call until 7:45. After waiting until almost 8 on hold, I was finally able to talk to a rep. She then transferred me to a department completely unrelated to my problem. When I called the original department back, of course they were closed for the evening. Obviously the first rep simply didn't want to have to deal with me so close to quitting time...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimbo56 said:


> Whole-home HD DVRs are $20/month, while regular HD DVRs are $15. I don't know if every DVR besides the first one has to be a Whole-home model to make it work. Even at $15 each your bill can add up quickly.
> 
> Quick Verizon CS story: when I was having problems I had to call a department which closed at 8 pm. Since I work late, I couldn't call until 7:45. After waiting until almost 8 on hold, I was finally able to talk to a rep. She then transferred me to a department completely unrelated to my problem. When I called the original department back, of course they were closed for the evening. Obviously the first rep simply didn't want to have to deal with me so close to quitting time...


You'll come to love dealing with Verizon. Everybody thinks our CSRs are bad, but Verizon's are a lot worse.

Rich


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

jimbo56 said:


> At first glance, the FiOS GUI looks pretty nice. Once you try to use it, you realize what a PITA it is. Very cluttered, different channels have different colors for no apparent reason, the channel mapping is terrible, and PPVs are scattered throughout the guide randomly. The channel you're tuning to shows up in the middle of the guide, along with the program information (unlike DirecTv where the information shows up on top). Add that to the fact that the guide information does not always match the programming and it all adds up to an unpleasant experience. I can't believe that someone actually designed a guide so poorly.


The colors represent content. Sports vs. movies vs. news.

All the channels in FIOS are grouped together. All the HD sports channels start at 570, the news channels start at 100/600, etc. The top two PPV movies are at the beginning of the group of movie channels.

The HD version of a channel is always 500 more than its SD version. If you tune to the SD version that has an HD version available, a small reminder tells you to just press the 'C' button and it will switch to the HD version. But yes, the ability to hide SD duplicates would be nice.

The main problem you (and I) are having is that you simply don't know where the channels are anymore.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

bigtom said:


> Thanks for the objective comparison.
> 
> Would you care to share your programming plans between the two?
> 
> I also wonder if equipment comparision for speed would be much closer if the situation was reversed as in moving from more legacy FiOS equipment to top of the line DIRECTV.


I can compare the HR24-200 with the QIP7232. Both are the fastest for each provider. The HD FIOS GUI runs circles around the HR24-200's SD GUI.

I agree with almost all of the OP's comparison. For me, it's $20 a month with slightly more channels and better VOD (FIOS) vs. $85/month with slightly fewer channels and poor VOD (D*). I think once I get used to where the channels are it's a no-brainer.


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

jimbo56 said:


> Verizon FiOS. I'm really not even familiar with Frontier FiOS.


 Verizon sold off alot of their fiber based stuff to frontier 2 years ago. It still carries the same name and content. The latest here in Oregon for fios is they raised their TV fee's 45% in an effort to shed the tv business. They have been sucessful so far. Last month the got rid of close to 10K sub's Here's a link to a google page on the news.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

grcooperjr said:


> Verizon sold off alot of their fiber based stuff to frontier 2 years ago. It still carries the same name and content. The latest here in Oregon for fios is they raised their TV fee's 45% in an effort to shed the tv business. They have been sucessful so far. Last month the got rid of close to 10K sub's Here's a link to a google page on the news.


Right - that includes fiber in Oregon, Washington, and Indiana. Those were all origially Verizon FiOS systems, and were sold off to Frontier. It's also clear that Frontier really doesn't want to be in the TV business. They not only jacked up the prices on TV services, but they started charging a ridiculous $500 set up fee for new subscribers! And they were giving special deals to have their customers switch to DirecTV. As for stuff all being the same between the two... that's no longer true. Frontier isn't beholden to get all the same HD channels that Verizon has (only most of them) and they're not doing guide updates like Verizon is. At this point they really are two separate systems - right down to control of the VHOs (basically regional cable offices).


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I have had FiOS since last October after four years of DirecTV.

I was unhappy with the slow channel response on DirecTV plus I could get a savings of $40 per month for the first year after switching and $20 per month for the second year.

I pretty much agree with the TS about the differences although I do not have a problem with the FiOS Guide.

Customer Service was much better with DirecTV. It has taken six months to get my FiOS billing correct with phone calls required each month to get my bill lowered to where it should be. The March bill is finally correct and the April estimated bill also looks correct.

DirecTV certainly offers the dedicated sports fan more offerings than FiOS.

About the only SD channel that I watch is TCM and the movies look much better on FiOS than they did on DirecTV. FiOS also carries three PBS HD channels in the LA area vs. DirecTV's two. FiOS also offers two local city channels that aren't carried by DirecTV.

The newer FiOS set top boxes look just fine and certainly run cooler than my HR20 hot box, which was always warm to the touch.

And, at least for now, FiOS is still carrying my local Tribune station...


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> The colors represent content. Sports vs. movies vs. news.
> 
> All the channels in FIOS are grouped together. All the HD sports channels start at 570, the news channels start at 100/600, etc. The top two PPV movies are at the beginning of the group of movie channels.
> 
> ...


The colors don't always make sense to me. Programs with similar content on the same channel are in different colors. Take World Fishing Network, for example. Some of the shows are in green, some are in blue. But the programs descriptions seem to indicate very similar programing. At 8 pm "Offshore Adventures" - in blue- with the description "...crew travel around the world exploring the best places for water sports, including fishing..."; at 8:30 "IGFA Saltwater Adventures" - in green - with the description "Bill Boyce takes viewers to some of the worlds top saltwater fishing locations". Why the different colors? Aren't these two shows basically the same? This is just one example; I could cite many more. It gets to the point where I just ignore the different colors.

If every channel were in HD then the category grouping would make sense. If I want to see every channel in a given category then I have to browse through the SD guide, choose a channel, then press C to get the HD version. If I'm watching the HD version and go back to the guide, I am brought to the HD part of the guide and I have to switch back to the SD channel guide to see what's on the channels which don't have a HD counterpart. If the SD and HD versions were grouped together by category and we had the option to hide the SD versions, it would be much easier to navigate the guide.

I do agree about having to become familiar with the FiOS channel numbers. After 5 years with DirecTV often I find myself tuning to the DTV channel number by mistake.


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## Justin85 (Jun 16, 2010)

I'd love to get me some of that FiOS Internet. Unfortunately I'm surrounded by AT&T U-Verse, which is terrible, both in Video, and Internet.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"bobcamp1" said:


> channels.
> 
> The HD version of a channel is always 500 more than its SD version.


Generally true but not 100% true.

Cable (and fios is fancy cable) drives me nuts with their channel numbering. Put 2 on 2. 45 on 45. Etc.

Also, while on demand is quick, the access and controls stink on fios. It is also horrible in remembering what you watched and where you are. Only 2x FF. And at least once a month, the picture spazzes out (fios is a rube Goldberg contraption).


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## MrShowtime (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm a DTV HSP Tech living in an apartment with no LOS for DTV so I've had FiOS since I moved in here 1 1/2 years ago. Took me a while to adjust to FiOS but the limited dvr space (I hold like 30 hrs) is my only major complaint..

I had a similar intro package to you, until all my yummy first year promotions ran out. The box fees kill you and after the promotion if you are keeping movie channels, you can upgrade to the next package up for a few dollars more a month. My bill is 177-180 / month after taxes and fees and I have on HDDVR and on HD box, and every channel (including redzone) except hbo...

I'll give you a glimpse into your future bill 


> Current Charges
> 
> 3/13 4/12 Triple Play 124.99
> • FiOS Digital Voice UnlimitedView Call Details 30.00
> ...


Oh and you are right about customer service, when my packages switched it took an hour on the phone for them to re-enable some of my ondemand services... and the tech they sent out was a moron, but thats another story...


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## grcooperjr (Mar 19, 2008)

Justin85 said:


> I'd love to get me some of that FiOS Internet. Unfortunately I'm surrounded by AT&T U-Verse, which is terrible, both in Video, and Internet.


 Well... I'll tell ya the internet is blazing fast. I'm grandfathered in at 30x30 mpbs @ $41 per month. I know one day it will change but I'm enjoying the speed for now....


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

grcooperjr said:


> Well... I'll tell ya the internet is blazing fast. I'm grandfathered in at 30x30 mpbs @ $41 per month. I know one day it will change but I'm enjoying the speed for now....


The fact that I had 2+ years of virtually flawless FiOS internet was what got me to get the Triple Play. While FiOS TV has its tradeoffs and drawbacks, I'm reasonably convinced that FiOS internet is about as good as it gets.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

jpl said:


> Right - that includes fiber in Oregon, Washington, and Indiana. Those were all origially Verizon FiOS systems, and were sold off to Frontier. It's also clear that Frontier really doesn't want to be in the TV business. They not only jacked up the prices on TV services, but they started charging a ridiculous $500 set up fee for new subscribers! And they were giving special deals to have their customers switch to DirecTV. As for stuff all being the same between the two... that's no longer true. Frontier isn't beholden to get all the same HD channels that Verizon has (only most of them) and they're not doing guide updates like Verizon is. At this point they really are two separate systems - right down to control of the VHOs (basically regional cable offices).


OK, so Verizon sold off its FiOS network in certain states and has pretty much said they will stop FiOS expansion. Now I understand that they're making deals with cable companies as well. Kind of makes me wonder what future Verizon sees for FiOS. Will FiOS improve its technology, add more HD channels, or will they try to sell off the whole system or just let it wither away? My pricing is locked in for two years, but if they raise rates like Frontier, I'll go back to DirecTV for sure (and probably get a returning customer promotional rate to go with it).


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

jimbo56 said:


> That $20/mo charge that Verizon gets for each additional DVR is way too steep IMHO. Fortunately the one DVR with Whole-Home capability works fine in my situation.


 Around here the 2nd DVR is $12/mo. The $20 one is the "multi-room" and you only need one of those (it's just software). They also are giving multi-room DVR free for life here as long as you keep a triple play package. Offers vary by area and competition.


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## skatingrocker17 (Jun 24, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> Had a quick test drive with U-verse.
> 
> User interface sucked.
> Tuning speed was faster, but it should be, since the signals are there just like with FiOS, or any other cable service.
> ...


 You would think cable boxes would be able to change the channel faster but all of the ones I've had couldn't.

Have you ever tried changing the channel on a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD, often the best box offered my cable providers.... it's slow. And if you think the UVerse interface sucked.. Time Warner Cable's has looked like this for probably 10 years.... (I got the image on Google). The only advantage they have is more HD, more locals and faster on demand.









Glad to hear your satisfied with your FiOS though, I think most people would have it if it were available to them, I sure would like to try it out.


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## bigtom (Jan 23, 2009)

"skatingrocker17" said:


> You would think cable boxes would be able to change the channel faster but all of the ones I've had couldn't.
> 
> Have you ever tried changing the channel on a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD, often the best box offered my cable providers.... it's slow. And if you think the UVerse interface sucked.. Time Warner Cable's has looked like this for probably 10 years.... (I got the image on Google). The only advantage they have is more HD, more locals and faster on demand.
> 
> Glad to hear your satisfied with your FiOS though, I think most people would have it if it were available to them, I sure would like to try it out.


Bet I have nightmares tonight after looking at that pic...


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## skatingrocker17 (Jun 24, 2010)

bigtom said:


> Bet I have nightmares tonight after looking at that pic...


Sadly, not much has changed. Thankfully we have DirecTV, they might have less HD channels (than some cable companies) but their boxes are far better.

Does FiOS have the apps like DirecTV? The DirecTV apps have potential but are poorly implemented in my opinion. I get it though, that have to be made to run on older hardware but they still take a few seconds to load on an HR24.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

I've posted these screen shots b4, but since a few here have asked what the ui llooks like here u go....


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

At least the football game being played matches the information listed in the guide. Here in Buffalo, Sabres games are carried by MSG regionally. When the Sabres play, often the FiOS guide will show the listing for MSG in New York City instead, even though the game is actually on the air here. Another pet peeve with the FiOS guide.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Had a quick test drive with U-verse.
> Find things close to these.
> User interface sucked.
> Tuning speed was faster, but it should be, since the signals are there just like with FiOS, or any other cable service.
> ...


U-verse suck! I didn't TV service for 14 hours on a Saturday until a tech came. Never again!


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## robl45 (Aug 5, 2004)

MrShowtime said:


> I'm a DTV HSP Tech living in an apartment with no LOS for DTV so I've had FiOS since I moved in here 1 1/2 years ago. Took me a while to adjust to FiOS but the limited dvr space (I hold like 30 hrs) is my only major complaint..
> 
> I had a similar intro package to you, until all my yummy first year promotions ran out. The box fees kill you and after the promotion if you are keeping movie channels, you can upgrade to the next package up for a few dollars more a month. My bill is 177-180 / month after taxes and fees and I have on HDDVR and on HD box, and every channel (including redzone) except hbo...
> 
> ...


you could save 30+ a month if you drop the phone service, I had that with uverse, I was paying like 37 dollars a month after taxes and fees. I bought a nettalk box for 70 dollars that includes the first year of service and then its 30 bucks a year, works better than the 37 dollar a month service did. Oh wait, its the same damn internet telephone service.


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## CurtP (Jan 9, 2008)

My Verizon FiOS experience was awful. I couldn't get away from them fast enough. I had the Motorola 7216 and it was unusable. No way to watch or delete an entire recorded series, it was slow and needed to be rebooted frequently. PQ was really bad - their HD was worse than DirecTV's SD. I had the receiver replaced twice with the same result. Customer service was really bad and my bill was never what it was supposed to be. I had TV/internet bundled package and it was supposed to be $80/mo. It was $130+/mo after they added all their fees and additional charges.

I didn't like their internet service either. Give me an ethernet handoff and let me use my own firewall. They wouldn't let me connect without their POS Actiontec router. If I put it in bridge mode, they'd do a hard reset on it every three days. If I did any port forwarding, they'd reset it every three days. If I deviated from anything other than changing the password, it would be reset every three days. I couldn't do my site-to-site VPN, VoIP would stop working and I had to spend hours on the phone with their (nonexistent) customer service.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

CurtP said:


> My Verizon FiOS experience was awful. I couldn't get away from them fast enough. I had the Motorola 7216 and it was unusable. No way to watch or delete an entire recorded series, it was slow and needed to be rebooted frequently. PQ was really bad - their HD was worse than DirecTV's SD. I had the receiver replaced twice with the same result. Customer service was really bad and my bill was never what it was supposed to be. I had TV/internet bundled package and it was supposed to be $80/mo. It was $130+/mo after they added all their fees and additional charges.
> 
> I didn't like their internet service either. Give me an ethernet handoff and let me use my own firewall. They wouldn't let me connect without their POS Actiontec router. If I put it in bridge mode, they'd do a hard reset on it every three days. If I did any port forwarding, they'd reset it every three days. If I deviated from anything other than changing the password, it would be reset every three days. I couldn't do my site-to-site VPN, VoIP would stop working and I had to spend hours on the phone with their (nonexistent) customer service.


If you believe their HD is worse than DirecTV's SD... then there was something wrong with your setup. Their HD is stunning, and is on par with DirecTV's HD. As for watching/deleting an entire series of recordings... I'm not sure why that would be a make or break (to each his own), but that feature is now in 1.9. Next on the slowness of the hardware - I had the 7216, even with the 1.9 s/w and it's not slow. It's not as fast as the 7232 I now have, and the 6416 I used to have was sluggish under 1.9, but not the 7216. Between that and the constant rebooting, and it's clear you had something wrong with your setup. My boxes rarely reboot - only when Verizon intentionally reboots (they're doing maintenance) which happens occasionally. Beyond that, my DVR may spontaneously reboot once a year.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

CurtP said:


> I didn't like their internet service either. Give me an ethernet handoff and let me use my own firewall. They wouldn't let me connect without their POS Actiontec router. If I put it in bridge mode, they'd do a hard reset on it every three days. If I did any port forwarding, they'd reset it every three days. If I deviated from anything other than changing the password, it would be reset every three days. I couldn't do my site-to-site VPN, VoIP would stop working and I had to spend hours on the phone with their (nonexistent) customer service.


I've had FiOS TV for six months and FiOS Internet for over two years.

Billing for FiOS TV has been a disaster, but I'm pretty sure it's straightened out with this month's bill. I will agree that Verizon's customer service is pretty poor. I wouldn't quite call it nonexistent as I did eventually get the bill fixed every month.

Absolutely no internet problems with the Actiontec router. I have three computers wirelessly connected plus an iPod Touch, an iPad, and an Android tablet occasionally connected.

FiOS TV HD PQ seems a bit better than DirecTV, but certainly not a deal breaker between the two services. FiOS TV SD PQ, though, is much better than DirecTV. And the remote response on my 7232 HD DVR is much, much faster than I experienced on either of my DirecTV DVR's.

I will give DirecTV credit for better sports coverage. FiOS only offers two HD channels for MLB Extra Innings. The other games are SD. That's not a problem for me since I only watch EI during the free previews.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

"CurtP" said:


> My Verizon FiOS experience was awful. I couldn't get away from them fast enough. I had the Motorola 7216 and it was unusable. No way to watch or delete an entire recorded series, it was slow and needed to be rebooted frequently. PQ was really bad - their HD was worse than DirecTV's SD. I had the receiver replaced twice with the same result. Customer service was really bad and my bill was never what it was supposed to be. I had TV/internet bundled package and it was supposed to be $80/mo. It was $130+/mo after they added all their fees and additional charges.
> 
> I didn't like their internet service either. Give me an ethernet handoff and let me use my own firewall. They wouldn't let me connect without their POS Actiontec router. If I put it in bridge mode, they'd do a hard reset on it every three days. If I did any port forwarding, they'd reset it every three days. If I deviated from anything other than changing the password, it would be reset every three days. I couldn't do my site-to-site VPN, VoIP would stop working and I had to spend hours on the phone with their (nonexistent) customer service.


Have to agree with jpl; somehow your system wasn't set up right. HD PQ on FiOS is every bit as good as on DirecTV, while SD PQ is much better. If you changed boxes then maybe the problem was in the ONT or maybe in the coax somewhere.

I don't know why your bill was so high. Fees and additional charges are less than $10/month on my bill.

As for the Internet, I agree that the Actiontec router is junk, but it is needed for TV service. I have my Actiontec router set as primary and I bridge to an Asus router for my wireless LAN. I use VyprVPN and it works with no problems as well. I had VOIP phone service, but it was cheaper to go with the Triple Play and Verizon Digital Voice. I was even able to keep my VOIP phone number. Other than the minor annoyance of having to dial the area code for every outgoing call, I have no complaints.

Don't know what attempts you made to contact Verizon CS, but if it were me I would've had a tech come out to try to figure out what was wrong before canceling altogether. (Yes, I know all about the problems in getting satisfaction from Verizon CS). If everyone had the problems you've had then Verizon would be out of business. I have to believe that yours is an isolated experience.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I see these negative comments about the FiOS Actiontec router all the time, so I always steered clear of it. 

I had my D-Link DGL-4100 Gigabit router and a separate DAP-2553 n access point and all was great.

When I added FiOS TV last year (Triple Play) for only $10/month more then I was paying for Double Play (Internet/Voice), with a free DVR (7232) for life, I decided to at least give the Actiontec a try, before considering the dual router configurations that were listed over at DSLReports.

I disconnected the D-Link router, I put the Actiontec router in it's place, and I plugged the D-Link DAP-2553 n access point into the Actiontec.

And all has been perfect, not one single issue. Works great, and I have 20+ IP devices in the home.

The Actiontec was actually better because I like the web interface, and it gets regular firmware updates, which the DGL-4100 didn't.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

Sixto said:


> I see these negative comments about the FiOS Actiontec router all the time, so I always steered clear of it.
> 
> I had my D-Link DGL-4100 Gigabit router and a separate DAP-2553 n access point and all was great.
> 
> ...


What revision Actiontec router did you get? It's my understanding that only the latest revision is an 802.11n, which is what I really need.

My problem with the Actiontec is lack of range. My ONT is in the basement and the router is near the ONT. The wireless signal from the Actiontec just isn't strong enough to cover my whole house and outdoor seating area; that's why I use the Asus router for wireless.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

jimbo56 said:


> What revision Actiontec router did you get? It's my understanding that only the latest revision is an 802.11n, which is what I really need.
> 
> My problem with the Actiontec is lack of range. My ONT is in the basement and the router is near the ONT. The wireless signal from the Actiontec just isn't strong enough to cover my whole house and outdoor seating area; that's why I use the Asus router for wireless.


As mentioned, I'm not using the Actiontec wireless, have a D-Link DAP-2553 as the n access point. Same one I had with the D-Link router, it works great. Can be put anywhere in the house with an Ethernet port.


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

CurtP said:


> I didn't like their internet service either. Give me an ethernet handoff and let me use my own firewall. They wouldn't let me connect without their POS Actiontec router. If I put it in bridge mode, they'd do a hard reset on it every three days. If I did any port forwarding, they'd reset it every three days. If I deviated from anything other than changing the password, it would be reset every three days. I couldn't do my site-to-site VPN, VoIP would stop working and I had to spend hours on the phone with their (nonexistent) customer service.


You can use your own router if you only use FIOS for internet. Just run a CAT 5 or 6 cable from the ONT to the router of your choice and have them provision it for ethernet over the phone. I haven't used the FIOS router for a couple months now. (You can also use your own with FIOS TV, but you lose some features.)

I went back to D* for TV though when FIOS wouldn't match their offer. And when my deal is up with D*, I'll gladly switch back to FIOS if D* won't match theirs.  Aside from FIOS customer service not being close to D*'s and FIOS not having nearly as much sports programming, both providers are very similar.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

Sixto said:


> As mentioned, I'm not using the Actiontec wireless, have a D-Link DAP-2553 as the n access point. Same one I had with the D-Link router, it works great. Can be put anywhere in the house with an Ethernet port.


I probably should have given the D-Link consideration before getting the Asus router and using the DSL Reports two router workaround. I am curious, however, as to the wireless performance of the latest revision Actiontec router. If I had gotten one I might not have needed to buy any extra equipment. Needs to be asked in a FiOS forum, however.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

sangs said:


> You can use your own router if you only use FIOS for internet. Just run a CAT 5 or 6 cable from the ONT to the router of your choice and have them provision it for ethernet over the phone. I haven't used the FIOS router for a couple months now. (You can also use your own with FIOS TV, but you lose some features.)


I did just that when I only had FiOS internet, since I wanted an 802.11n router and the Actiontec I had was only 802.11g with limited wireless range.

You are right: without the Actiontec VOD and CID will not work with FiOS TV (I believe the guide still works, but I'm not 100% certain)


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

Here are some other screen caps. Fios gives your progress bar the ability to scroll in 6 min intervals, with or without video screen cap. It's nice that fios gives u ample choices, various grid/channel views, as well as 2 diff progress bar types. D* gives you limited choices, which is a shame.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"texasmoose" said:


> Here are some other screen caps. Fios gives you the ability to scroll in 6 min intervals with video screen cap too. Nice feature indeed, i wish our D* dvrs had something comparable. 15 min intervals w/no screen cap is kinda of weak.


I are no value to the screen cap. Since they are just time intervals, they mean nothing. I would prefer tick skipping. (I do have a fios dvr. The screen caps did not work for months. I used it the same way as I do with caps.)

They only work on finished recordings. No way to skip to a spot on live buffer or currently recording show.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> That would cost me $240 a month just for DVRs...
> Rich


Hmmm, thought you said something different in another thread?


RACJ2 said:


> ... And I would only pay 4 x $6 = $24/mo for the 5 HR34's. With your 12 HR2x's, you pay 11 x $6 = $66/mo, which is over $500/yr more for your setup...





Rich said:


> Wouldn't work. I've got eight Panny plasmas. *The money isn't an issue.*
> 
> Rich


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## davidjplatt (Sep 22, 2007)

There is another option when it comes to FiOS. The Ceton PCIe or USB tuners have dropped to half of their original price - they are now $199 each and have 4 tuners when used with an M-Card cable card. FiOS charges $3.99 a month for an M-Card. I could get two Ceton tuners and put them in two HTPCs and get 8 streams recordable for $7.98 per month. And with the two XBox 360s I have I can use the media extender in the XBox to connect to the HTPCs. You can also share the tuners from the Ceton to another HTPC on the network. So if you had two Ceton tuners and 4 HTPCs you could assign 2 tuners to each PC.

And since I have a Windows Home Server system, all of the recorded programs that are recorded by Media Center are automatically archived to the Home Server and can be accessed by any HTPC or extender on the network.

Right now I am paying $55 for FiOS internet, $34 for Vonage and $156 for DirecTV for HBO, Showtime, Starz/Encore, HD, HD Extra Pack and 4 DVRs with whole home.

FiOS would run about $145 per month plus about $26 in taxes so my monthly cost would drop from $245 to about $71. That's with a multi room DVR free for a year, $8 for an STB and $4 for a cable card. At the end of the year I would return the DVR and STB and get a second cable card. OnDemand or PPV is not an issue for me since I really don't use either on DirecTV. I've used OnDemand a handful of times and done PPV may twice in the late 90's.

The fact that the prices keep going up on DirecTV (I've been with them for 16 years) is a big factor. The sports advantage on DirecTV means nothing to me. The HD channel advantage and channels that FiOS carry that DirecTV doesn't do make a difference to me.

I've had FiOS internet for about 6 years and have had two problems that were Verizon's problems that caused about 4 hours of downtime. I've had ten times as much downtime with DirecTV just for rain fade.

And Verizon phone will definitely be better than Vonage (since I don't make international calls that isn't an issue for me). And I get an internet speed boost on download and a huge bump on upload. My brother had DirecTV before I did and he recently switched to FiOS and loves it - and he's saving a lot of money. The HD picture is definitely better than DirecTV and the SD is far superior.

I'm not saying that Windows Media Center is perfect - but it is a lot farther along than when it started and it's basically just as good as DirecTV's DVRs from what I have seen.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Ahhh the old HTPC argument. That's all great and dandy if you have extra PC crap laying around and extenders in rooms...or you can spend $500+ easy for all the stuff.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

davidjplatt said:


> Right now I am paying $55 for FiOS internet, $34 for Vonage and $156 for DirecTV for HBO, Showtime, Starz/Encore, HD, HD Extra Pack and 4 DVRs with whole home.


You're paying too much!:eek2:

I have Fios _Triple Play_ for < u pay for fios internet/vonage. I pay $79.99 for all my fios services, and free hd dvr(7232 latest version). I pay < than u for D* too, I have everything u do, except no hbo and 1 less dvr & i pay $___.__, nevermind you'll start cursing @ me.


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## davidjplatt (Sep 22, 2007)

texasmoose said:


> You're paying too much!:eek2:
> 
> I have Fios _Triple Play_ for < u pay for fios internet/vonage. I pay $79.99 for all my fios services, and free hd dvr(7232 latest version). I pay < than u for D* too, I have everything u do, except no hbo and 1 less dvr & i pay $___.__, nevermind you'll start cursing @ me.


My FiOS internet is 30/5 service that has been the same price for 6 years. At the time, $55 a month for 30/5 service was a bargain (regular price was $139/month). Vonage keeps going up - it started at $26.25 (24.95 + tax) and the taxes and fees keep going up - now to $35 a month.

DirecTV keeps raising prices like the DVR fee, additional receiver fee, package fee, premium fees... I could go on an on.

I'll be honest - the one thing that has kept me with DirecTV was the DVRs that DirecTV has. The original FiOS DVRs were crap (both software and hardware), only did 20hrs of HD recordning and were overpriced. The deal right now is a Multi Room DVR and STB for $8 a month for the first year with the triple play (which gives me 35/35 internet instead of 30/5). The high cost of the Ceton 4 tuner cards when they first came out was a deterrrent. But now that 2 Ceton tuners cost the same as the original we are definitely in the ballpark. I'm paying $12 a month for the 2 DirecTV DVRs that a single Ceton card would replace plus $8 a month for the DVR service. That $20 charge would be reduced to $4 a month for the cable card. That gives me 4 tuners at a savings of $16 per month. In month 13 the first Ceton card would go positive in value with the savings of $208.

I'm sure you pay less than I do for DirecTV if you are still in your first pricing period - but watch out after that. The prices will go up and you will get no love from DirecTV. Fortunately I'm out of contract and haven't gotten new equipment from them in over 3 years so I can leave with $0 ETF.

Part of the aggravation with DirecTV is how slow the DVRs have gotten - some times it takes 2 or 3 monutes to get the DVRs to respond to the remote control correctly. They get so slow that when I type in 3 numbers to change channels it loses numbers or delays so long between numbers that it inserts an "enter" command and tries to change to a non-existent channel. When the guide is up it can take 90 seconds for the channel down button to scroll a page in the guide.

I also have a bad taste in my mouth from the failed DirecTV USB tuner for PCs. They sucked me into a beta program with Microsoft waiting for delivery of the DirecTV hardware which never came - and I was already in the beta program for about 10 weeks when they finally admitted the DirecTV hardware had been shelved. Then MS couldn't understand why I wanted to drop out of the beta program...


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## davidjplatt (Sep 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Ahhh the old HTPC argument. That's all great and dandy if you have extra PC crap laying around and extenders in rooms...or you can spend $500+ easy for all the stuff.


The fact that I would be able to control the software that does the DVR functions is enough reason for me to use an HTPC. I already have two HTPCs for OTA and the extenders for that too. Two HTPCs (Intel 2500K's so they certainly have the power) on a gigabit network with two XBox 360s gives me all the connectivity I need.

And the software is at least as friendly as DirecTVs HR20 line of DVRs (which is what I have) and a whole lot more responsive.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

Here's another point that favors Fios, no rain fade. We had a big thunderstorm move through a hour ago or so, turned on D*, searching for signal, toggled to fios, good-to-go. It's nice to have a back-up, we're very fortunate.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

This has been fascinating and great reading.
First off let me say I have been _*very happy*_ with D* for many years.
I have also been with Verizon internet since the DSL days and have to say it has been rock solid, and reliable, my FiOs service even more so.

Verizon billing is a nightmare, my current double play bundle with cell phone service has been nothing short of a horror show. In fact for 20+ years I cannot make Verizon spell my last name properly.

As far as my CS experience, it has been great with both companies. Honestly both companies have had issues on that point as well.

I do not want to leave D*, but I stand to save $60.00 a month if I switch.

In this economy, I am having a hard time walking away from that.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

If you're into sports, Fios just doesn't' compare to D*, a gr8 example is their current "_Masters_" coverage, many hd channels, 3d & a HD Mix channel. Very nice indeed!


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

SteveHas said:


> _Verizon billing_ is a nightmare.


That's an understatement:eek2:, CSR's aren't gr8 either, D* easily has the better customer service of the 2, imo.


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## CurtP (Jan 9, 2008)

jimbo56 said:


> Have to agree with jpl; somehow your system wasn't set up right. HD PQ on FiOS is every bit as good as on DirecTV, while SD PQ is much better. If you changed boxes then maybe the problem was in the ONT or maybe in the coax somewhere.
> 
> I don't know why your bill was so high. Fees and additional charges are less than $10/month on my bill.
> 
> ...


There may have been an issue with the install. The guy who came out was a real *****. He kept trying to piece together all the old cable TV coax. I asked him to run a new line, which he didn't want to do. It didn't make sense to use the old stuff since it didn't go into the closet where I wanted it. He wanted to run it into the spare bedroom, around the baseboard, then punch through into the living room closet instead of running one cable around the outside of the house and into the closet through an existing hole. He ended up running the new cable, but he was in a real huff about it, which is probably why he took the remote with him. When he was done, he threw the welcome package on the top shelf in the closet, grabbed the remote, mumbled something and ran out the door. That was the highlight of my Verizon experience, and it went downhill from there.

The ONT was new, the cabling was new. The neighbor had it for a while too and went to Cox for many of the same complaints I had (poor PQ, slow receivers, bad CS). Maybe there was something else going on in our neighborhood.

I can't use the Actiontec router. I need to have an external, routable address on my firewall for StS VPN access. I haven't had any other provider decline the request, but Verizon flat out refused - numerous times.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CurtP said:


> There may have been an issue with the install. The guy who came out was a real *****. He kept trying to piece together all the old cable TV coax. I asked him to run a new line, which he didn't want to do. It didn't make sense to use the old stuff since it didn't go into the closet where I wanted it. He wanted to run it into the spare bedroom, around the baseboard, then punch through into the living room closet instead of running one cable around the outside of the house and into the closet through an existing hole. He ended up running the new cable, but he was in a real huff about it, which is probably why he took the remote with him. When he was done, he threw the welcome package on the top shelf in the closet, grabbed the remote, mumbled something and ran out the door. That was the highlight of my Verizon experience, and it went downhill from there.
> 
> The ONT was new, the cabling was new. The neighbor had it for a while too and went to Cox for many of the same complaints I had (poor PQ, slow receivers, bad CS). Maybe there was something else going on in our neighborhood.
> 
> I can't use the Actiontec router. I need to have an external, routable address on my firewall for StS VPN access. I haven't had any other provider decline the request, but Verizon flat out refused - numerous times.


To be fair, their install is a ***** itself. It really is a rigged together piece of crap that if it works right gives you great internet and great TV PQ. But so much can go wrong and a lot of it did for my install. It took three days to get everything right. Not only do you have multiple paths of data that have to talk to each other, but there are multiple databases at the home office that have to be aligned right.

Mine was complicated because it was in a multi-family dwelling (condo) so it was partially installed, which the fios databases did not seem to like at all.

Mine is still not perfect. I get data drops and issues with On Demand at times but trying to get anything fixed with fios is a nightmare because there are so many points of failure.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

CurtP said:


> I can't use the Actiontec router. I need to have an external, routable address on my firewall for StS VPN access. I haven't had any other provider decline the request, but Verizon flat out refused - numerous times.


For a static IP, you need the business plan.

If you don't need a static IP, you can set up the Actiontec as a bridge to the router you want to use. That's not officially supported by Verizon, but there are enough tutorials on the Web on how to do it.

You need the Actiontec router to work as a MoCA router and bridge to the Ethernet. The backs of the FIOS boxes don't have an Ethernet jack, but they all have MoCA built-in.


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## CurtP (Jan 9, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> To be fair, their install is a ***** itself. It really is a rigged together piece of crap that if it works right gives you great internet and great TV PQ. But so much can go wrong and a lot of it did for my install. It took three days to get everything right. Not only do you have multiple paths of data that have to talk to each other, but there are multiple databases at the home office that have to be aligned right.


Mine was fairly straightforward. Both the receiver and router were going into the same closet, so it was just one cable that had to be run. The guy was trying to do it as quickly as possible - he wanted to get the hell out of there. He was over two hours past my appointment window, never bothered calling and didn't want to reschedule. In the end it wasn't the best job, but it wasn't terrible either.



bobcamp1 said:


> For a static IP, you need the business plan.
> 
> If you don't need a static IP, you can set up the Actiontec as a bridge to the router you want to use. That's not officially supported by Verizon, but there are enough tutorials on the Web on how to do it.
> 
> You need the Actiontec router to work as a MoCA router and bridge to the Ethernet. The backs of the FIOS boxes don't have an Ethernet jack, but they all have MoCA built-in.


I didn't need a static IP, just a routable one. And I did set it up on bridge mode - a bunch of times. But Verizon would hard reset the router within three days when I configured it.

My STB had an ethernet connection on the back and I used it. When in bridge mode, I forwarded the required ports and it worked fine. Until they reset the Actiontec. Which one doesn't have an ethernet port? All the ones I've ever seen do. You don't even need coax - the whole system can run over ethernet, which is the way I wanted to do it.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

texasmoose said:


> That's an understatement:eek2:, CSR's aren't gr8 either, D* easily has the better customer service of the 2, imo.


I don't disagree about Verizon AND I am happy with DirecTV....but DirecTV can be a nightmare as well....as has been documented here....a million plus times.


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## jimbo56 (Nov 13, 2007)

I cancelled my DirecTV service a week and a half ago. Guess what comes in the mail today? My first "We Want You Back" letter! I guess I can expect to see them every week now...


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## CurtP (Jan 9, 2008)

jimbo56 said:


> I cancelled my DirecTV service a week and a half ago. Guess what comes in the mail today? My first "We Want You Back" letter! I guess I can expect to see them every week now...


Are you under contract with Verizon? Thankfully I wasn't and was able to take advantage of a pretty good deal going back to DirecTV.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

jimbo56 said:


> I cancelled my DirecTV service a week and a half ago. Guess what comes in the mail today? My first "We Want You Back" letter! I guess I can expect to see them every week now...


No, the letters should taper off. I got two or three initially after I quit last October but nothing lately.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> I will give DirecTV credit for better sports coverage. FiOS only offers two HD channels for MLB Extra Innings. The other games are SD. That's not a problem for me since I only watch EI during the free previews.


For what it's worth, Verizon just added 4 more HD feeds for MLB EI. They're in the process of migrating to mpeg-4, which is how those additional feeds have been set up.

They're about to start migrating some of their current HD channels over to mpeg-4 as well, to make more room. Just FYI.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

jpl said:


> For what it's worth, Verizon just added 4 more HD feeds for MLB EI. They're in the process of migrating to mpeg-4, which is how those additional feeds have been set up.
> 
> They're about to start migrating some of their current HD channels over to mpeg-4 as well, to make more room. Just FYI.


The extra HD channels were not available on FiOS for the free preview customers. Fortunately the FiOS SD PQ is fairly good.


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

Very glad to see the transition to mpeg4.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"jpl" said:


> For what it's worth, Verizon just added 4 more HD feeds for MLB EI. They're in the process of migrating to mpeg-4, which is how those additional feeds have been set up.
> 
> They're about to start migrating some of their current HD channels over to mpeg-4 as well, to make more room. Just FYI.


We can hope but I have not heard anything beyond MLB EI for mpeg-4 for fios as yet. Where did you hear that? It would be good news for fios customers.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> We can hope but I have not heard anything beyond MLB EI for mpeg-4 for fios as yet. Where did you hear that? It would be good news for fios customers.


Yeah, there are plans in the works. They're about to convert some of their other channels. I won't say where I heard this, or which channels, though. I promised I wouldn't.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

jpl said:


> Yeah, there are plans in the works. They're about to convert some of their other channels.
> 
> I won't say where I heard this
> 
> or which channels, though. I promised I wouldn't.


I won't say where I heard this = @ dslreports

or which channels = the .tv channels


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> I won't say where I heard this = @ dslreports
> 
> or which channels = the .tv channels


Actually... I'd heard more than that. But yes, I did see that thread on dslreports. There are other plans in the works, though.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> I won't say where I heard this = @ dslreports
> 
> or which channels = the .tv channels


The useless .tv channels.

You forgot that word.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

I switched to FiOS when I moved last year.

The net-net?

I miss DirecTV. The DirecTV+ DVR's are far superior. Much easier to use, much smoother.

Now, having said that...

My total FiOS bill (25/25 Internet, 2 phone lines, FiOS TV, 3 DVR's, 1 HD STB, 1 SD STB, lifetime "multi room dvr") is $151/month.

When I had DirecTV, my bill was $130/mo... and then another $100/mo for Internet + phone from Cablevision.

So, I miss DirecTV... but having an extra $1,000/year in my pocket more than balances it out.


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## KAL (Sep 1, 2008)

dmurphy said:


> I switched to FiOS when I moved last year.
> 
> The net-net?
> 
> ...


Been with FIOS for two weeks (have their HD-DVR) After two weeks, I can safely say that the DirectTV HD DVR I had was by far much better then the current FIOS DVR that I have. I wont even get into how underwhelmed I feel about FIOS HD quality compared to Ds. I will acknowledge though that FIOS has great triple play bundle prices.


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

KAL said:


> Been with FIOS for two weeks (have their HD-DVR) After two weeks, I can safely say that the DirectTV HD DVR I had was by far much better then the current FIOS DVR that I have. I wont even get into how underwhelmed I feel about FIOS HD quality compared to Ds. I will acknowledge though that FIOS has great triple play bundle prices.


It's funny how people see things differently on this topic. I returned to Directv a couple months ago (having come from FiOS), but after three months of buggy DVR's, missed recordings, interminable channel changes and rain fade, I'm back with FiOS. I'll miss the 5-tuner ability of the HR34, but with 1.5 GB on the two FiOS DVR's (one free for life), I won't miss it too much. As for the HD, I think they look pretty much the same.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dmurphy said:


> My total FiOS bill (25/25 Internet, 2 phone lines, FiOS TV, 3 DVR's, 1 HD STB, 1 SD STB, lifetime "multi room dvr") is $151/month.
> 
> When I had DirecTV, my bill was $130/mo... and then another $100/mo for Internet + phone from Cablevision.
> 
> So, I miss DirecTV... but having an extra $1,000/year in my pocket more than balances it out.


 Is that the "1yr promo" price or your "after promo" price. I've been vacillating switching for a year and have been pricing Fios on and off for months and the best I can come up with is around $140 for 2DVRs & 1HD (inc MRV DVR for life), 1 phone line (which I don't even want but would take for the discount package) and 25/25 then about $20 more after the 1st year. Still a nice savings for me but you've got a heck of a deal with all those receivers. (I have had Fios internet for quite a while).


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

TBlazer07 said:


> Is that the "1yr promo" price or your "after promo" price. I've been vacillating switching for a year and have been pricing Fios on and off for months and the best I can come up with is around $140 for 2DVRs & 1HD (inc MRV DVR for life), 1 phone line (which I don't even want but would take for the discount package) and 25/25 then about $20 more after the 1st year. Still a nice savings for me but you've got a heck of a deal with all those receivers. (I have had Fios internet for quite a while).


Mine is 2 DVRs, 2 HD STBs, 1 SD STB, 50/20 for $134 (two-year contract). Added the movie package (HBO, SHO, STARZ, CINEMAX, EPIX) at half price $19.99 for 12 months too.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

sangs said:


> Mine is 2 DVRs, 2 HD STBs, 1 SD STB, 50/20 for $134 (two-year contract). Added the movie package (HBO, SHO, STARZ, CINEMAX, EPIX) at half price $19.99 for 12 months too.


 Was this a "triple play?" and did you do this through the website or through a phone call?


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

TBlazer07 said:


> Was this a "triple play?" and did you do this through the website or through a phone call?


Phone call. For me, trying to place orders on the V* website has always been a nightmare. Unlike D*'s, which is the clear winner in website useability.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

sangs said:


> Phone call. For me, trying to place orders on the V* website has always been a nightmare. Unlike D*'s, which is the clear winner in website useability.


 I read so many horror stories from people who were given package prices by phone with Verizon and ended up get totally ripped with fees way over what was promised to them and no way to prove what they were told. At least online you can make printscreens.


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

Well I always ask for - and receive - a confirmation email breaking it down. Anybody that doesn't do the same is playing with fire. And that goes for any company you're doing biz with, not just V*.


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## thomas_d92 (Nov 29, 2004)

why do all the people complaining about fios dvr's just use a Tivo elite ? I would if I could get Fios.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

thomas_d92 said:


> why do all the people complaining about fios dvr's just use a Tivo elite ? I would if I could get Fios.


1. It cost about $400.

2. Not sure that Verizon will allow this setup.

In either case I am satisfied with my FiOS multi-room DVR. Multi is a bit of an overkill. There's only one other room.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"thomas_d92" said:


> why do all the people complaining about fios dvr's just use a Tivo elite ? I would if I could get Fios.


I had TiVo for comcast. When I went fios, I gave my TiVo away. Fios dvr not great but tired of the TiVo issues with cable and lack of on demand.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Here in northern NJ with the fios ultimate package we get ALL the premium channels of hbo,starz,cinemax,epix,showtime,encore so its about 28 HD channels not counting the west versions.

Just wish they would do OAR as they hardly ever do but at least its good for shows like game of thrones, inside the nfl & stuff like that.


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## CurtP (Jan 9, 2008)

billsharpe said:


> 1. It cost about $400.
> 
> 2. Not sure that Verizon will allow this setup.
> 
> In either case I am satisfied with my FiOS multi-room DVR. Multi is a bit of an overkill. There's only one other room.


When I had FiOS, I was going to go with TiVo. Back then they didn't have lifetime and the subscription was $20/mo. Even now, it's $15/mo or $500 for lifetime (on top of the cost of the receiver). Too expensive. If the HD PQ would have been better, I may have tried TiVo anyway. Verizon's DVR is unusable.

Verizon allows the setup, but charges for a CableCARD (around $5/mo, IIRC). But you lose FiOS Interactive Media Guide, On Demand, FiOS TV Widgets and Parental Controls since the cards are only unidirectional.

I'm getting ready to go back to FiOS for internet only. I'm bundling it through DirecTV.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

thomas_d92 said:


> why do all the people complaining about fios dvr's just use a Tivo elite ? I would if I could get Fios.


 Why? Maybe about $400 up front, $15/month from Tivo and $5 month for the cable card.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Is that the "1yr promo" price or your "after promo" price. I've been vacillating switching for a year and have been pricing Fios on and off for months and the best I can come up with is around $140 for 2DVRs & 1HD (inc MRV DVR for life), 1 phone line (which I don't even want but would take for the discount package) and 25/25 then about $20 more after the 1st year. Still a nice savings for me but you've got a heck of a deal with all those receivers. (I have had Fios internet for quite a while).


That's my 2-year price. In 2 years, nominally, my discount expires and it goes up $20.... Even if I can't renegotiate that price (I bet I can , it's still way cheaper than DirecTV+Optimum Online+Optimum Voice ever was.

I need at least one landline for my home office... the second one is the house number. My wife and I are in our mid 30's and still live in the past... what can I say; old habits die hard!


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## KAL (Sep 1, 2008)

sangs said:


> It's funny how people see things differently on this topic. I returned to Directv a couple months ago (having come from FiOS), but after three months of buggy DVR's, missed recordings, interminable channel changes and rain fade, I'm back with FiOS. I'll miss the 5-tuner ability of the HR34, but with 1.5 GB on the two FiOS DVR's (one free for life), I won't miss it too much. As for the HD, I think they look pretty much the same.


Yep, it boils down to individual experiences. Switched back to Direct on friday and I'm very happy to be back. The re-connect offer they gave was pretty decent for me. I still plan to stay with FIOS (for internet and phone) provided they offer me the double play promo price for it. I will miss CSN Philly, but I wont miss the clunky DVR interface.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dmurphy said:


> That's my 2-year price. In 2 years, nominally, my discount expires and it goes up $20.... Even if I can't renegotiate that price (I bet I can , it's still way cheaper than DirecTV+Optimum Online+Optimum Voice ever was.
> 
> I need at least one landline for my home office... the second one is the house number. My wife and I are in our mid 30's and still live in the past... what can I say; old habits die hard!


 Wow, great value. I have 2 dedicated phone lines from another Voip provider. Costs me less than $9/month for BOTH lines INCLUDING taxes which is why I really don't need a triple play package but would take it just for the package.

The main problem I have with switching is like with a woman who has been with the same gynecologist or same hairdresser for 30 years. It's difficult giving up what you are used to and have had no problem with for the unknown! :lol: I think $$$$ are what is going to ultimately drive me to switch. Once my D* discount goes away in a few months will probably be the time.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

One HUGE advantage of FIOS here in Philly is that they carry CSN-Philadelphia.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

CurtP said:


> When I had FiOS, I was going to go with TiVo. Back then they didn't have lifetime and the subscription was $20/mo. Even now, it's $15/mo or $500 for lifetime (on top of the cost of the receiver). Too expensive. If the HD PQ would have been better, I may have tried TiVo anyway. Verizon's DVR is unusable.
> 
> Verizon allows the setup, but charges for a CableCARD (around $5/mo, IIRC). But you lose FiOS Interactive Media Guide, On Demand, FiOS TV Widgets and Parental Controls since the cards are only unidirectional.
> 
> I'm getting ready to go back to FiOS for internet only. I'm bundling it through DirecTV.


Can you do that in areas where FIOS offers TV? I thought you can only the D*-FIOS Internet bundle in areas where FIOS TV wasn't available?


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## KAL (Sep 1, 2008)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> One HUGE advantage of FIOS here in Philly is that they carry CSN-Philadelphia.


indeed! During the two weeks I had FIOS TV, I really enjoyed having CSN Philly.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"bobcamp1" said:


> Can you do that in areas where FIOS offers TV? I thought you can only the D*-FIOS Internet bundle in areas where FIOS TV wasn't available?


I know thats true with my phone company.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> Can you do that in areas where FIOS offers TV? I thought you can only the D*-FIOS Internet bundle in areas where FIOS TV wasn't available?


I had that combination for a couple of years before I went all FiOS last October.


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## evane (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey jimbo, :wave: from another Buffalo boy...

I've had Fios TV/Internet bundle for almost 2 years now, the picture quality has always been excellent, especially when compared to TWC locally.

I came from Dish Network with a VIP722, so when I got my QIP-7216 it was a rough adjustment and I still hate the damn thing, 20hrs of HD?? I mean really. The software when I first joined was still IMG 1.8 with the letter boxed 4:3 guide. IMG 1.9 was a big leap ahead for them in terms of functionality. I still do get conflicting reports on weather when you can have two DVR's with Home Media enabled if they will be able to stream between each other. I know as of now they won't do tuner pooling, so you have to schedule between each DVR.

http://www22.verizon.com/Support/Residential/tv/fiostv/receivers/user+guides/user+guides.htm#

Those are there receiver models they have had.

Overall besides my annoyances with the channel layout and the DVR size, I have had only one major issue with them a month or so back I lost service for almost 2 days they had a major outage in the northeast. I got my main TV back but quickly but it took me almost 4 days to get the spare bedrooms back. Dealing with there customer service is maddening.

To the person who said a couple of pages back that you can't put your own router in, that is just plain wrong. There are a few methods to do this.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

evane said:


> it was a rough adjustment and I still hate the damn thing, 20hrs of HD?? I mean really.


 Just go to your local Verizon store that supports Fios and swap it out for the newer model. As for multiple DVR's on multi-room I have read many times of it being done. The common problem I have heard is that most CSR's don't have a clue on how to enable it and therefor say it can't be done. I have read many messages from people who have it.


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## evane (Jul 24, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Just go to your local Verizon store that supports Fios and swap it out for the newer model. As for multiple DVR's on multi-room I have read many times of it being done. The common problem I have heard is that most CSR's don't have a clue on how to enable it and therefor say it can't be done. I have read many messages from people who have it.


I know the Cisco UCS 435 or Moto 7212 would be fine, but I have been procrastinating doing so, since I am considering just cutting the cable coord completely.

I actually tried a eSATA drive a while back that was on the supported list and it was a epic fail, the VZ CSR's tryed to blame the drive but the drive worked fine on windows. Eventually they just told me to do a receiver swap, which at that point the external drive becomes moot since I could get the bigger box.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

evane said:


> Hey jimbo, :wave: from another Buffalo boy...
> 
> I've had Fios TV/Internet bundle for almost 2 years now, the picture quality has always been excellent, especially when compared to TWC locally.
> 
> ...


Just some clarification. You only designate one of your DVRs as the Home Media DVR, but you can still stream recordings DVR to DVR. You are correct about the tuner pooling, though. Would be a nice to have, but it's not there yet.

As for getting more recording space, you have two options:

1) Get an external drive, and you can store up to an additional 2 TB of programming.

2) Swap out for the 7232. Go to: www.verizon.com/fiostvcentral, and log in. You'll see an icon giving direction on upgrading to the 7232. It's a one time $40 upgrade fee, but it guarantees you the 7232. That's the route that I went a year ago. You put in your e-mail address, and they send you an e-mail with a link to the offer. Hit the link and agree to the terms, and the DVR is sent to you. Mine came about a day after I submitted for it.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Just go to your local Verizon store that supports Fios and swap it out for the newer model. As for multiple DVR's on multi-room I have read many times of it being done. The common problem I have heard is that most CSR's don't have a clue on how to enable it and therefor say it can't be done. I have read many messages from people who have it.


With the "old" software, doing MRV between DVRs didn't work (or if it did, you need Special Papal Dispensation for it.)

With the "new" version 1.9 software, MRV from DVR-to-DVR works great out of the box... I'm doing it here.

As a long-time DirecTV junkie, I'm completely spoiled and a non-DVR box just won't do. Unacceptable.

MRV is a wonderful thing - the one feature that's missing (and I hear is coming at some point) is the ability to schedule a recording on another DVR from this one (i.e. I click record on the remote, and tell it to save the recording on a 'remote' DVR.) Other than that, it works incredible well.


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