# Composit or Hdmi cables



## transplant (Dec 23, 2005)

Which is better for HD composite or hdmi cables. I have a 211 and a Toshiba without a tuner and am now using composite cables but I have hdmi in my Toshiba and also in the 211?


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## eatonjb (Nov 21, 2006)

transplant said:


> Which is better for HD composite or hdmi cables. I have a 211 and a Toshiba without a tuner and am now using composite cables but I have hdmi in my Toshiba and also in the 211?


HDMI is supposed to be better.. but I find that I get a better SD Picture if I have composite RGB cables. ..

good luck
e..b


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

This mistake is made over and over again. People calling component cables composite. Component are marked RD GR & BL. Composite are YL, RD, & BLK (or WH). You can't display HD with composite cables. As far as which is better it will depend on the display that you have. Some work better w/ HDMI some with component.


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## transplant (Dec 23, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> This mistake is made over and over again. People calling component cables composite. Component are marked RD GR & BL. Composite are YL, RD, & BLK (or WH). You can't display HD with composite cables. As far as which is better it will depend on the display that you have. Some work better w/ HDMI some with component.


The cables that I thought were composite from top to bottom are marked "y" "pb" and "pr" and colors from top are green, gray and red. Aren't they composite?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

transplant said:


> The cables that I thought were composite from top to bottom are marked "y" "pb" and "pr" and colors from top are green, gray and red. Aren't they composite?


That is a component cable y, pr, & pb are the Luminance, croma Rd & croma Bl.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Component Video W/ Analog Audio










Composite W/ analog audio and an "S" video thrown in.










HDMI









Another Component cable









Composite


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## kcribb1 (Jan 16, 2006)

eatonjb said:


> HDMI is supposed to be better.. but I find that I get a better SD Picture if I have composite RGB cables. ..
> 
> good luck
> e..b


HDMI Is way better. I have used both, and I assure you HDMI will blow you away. Get a good pair of Monster cables and YOU will see a difference.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

kcribb1 said:


> ...Get a good pair of Monster cables and YOU will see a difference.


Bad advice and NO WAY because they are far over priced for an extreme profit. :sure: Waist of good money and a monster profit for the Monster company. :eek2: MonoPrice has high qulity HDMI cables for a SMALL price.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Most people say they cannot tell a difference between component and HDMI. It probably varies from TV to TV.

I put my 32-inch TV in the bedroom and have switched it from HDMI to component, and I can't tell any difference.

But you should probably buy a (cheap) HDMI cable and at least try it.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Try these
Link Depot 6' HDMI 
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4774579?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Accell UltraAV 2-1 HDMI switch
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4920501?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

The big advantage of component is that it works. When your 622's HDMI port dies, it won't matter how good the PQ is.  Fortunately for me, my TV's image on component is just as good as HDMI was... once I realized to make the same adjustments to settings for that port as I'd made for the HDMI port! Don't forget to do that if you switch.


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Something to remember...
Component = Analog
HDMI = Digital

Better error correction with digital.


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## dclaypool (Jul 11, 2005)

dmspen said:


> Something to remember...
> Component = Analog
> HDMI = Digital
> 
> Better error correction with digital.


The only errors that will be correctable will be ones introduced between the box and TV...that might make a good case for long cable runs to be HDMI...


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## richbogrow (Nov 13, 2006)

William said:


> Bad advice and NO WAY because they are far over priced for an extreme profit. :sure: Waist of good money and a monster profit for the Monster company. :eek2: MonoPrice has high qulity HDMI cables for a SMALL price.


I just ordered a set of monoprice HDMI and component cables to replace the ones that I have originally installed with my VIP 622. I will report back if I see a difference in picture quality. With the cables I currently have, I actually think that my picture is better with component cables, especially SD. I am hoping that a better quality HDMI cable will be even better.


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

I've used monoprice.com for every cable in my home theater and never once had any problems whatsoever. Excellent cable for an excellent price. Don't believe the hype about expensive cables like the ones from Monster cable.


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

Monprice is ok, but Blue jean cables (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/) really has some great prices and their quality is as good or better than other high-end manufacturers.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

L-com.com is another option

See ya
Tony


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dmspen said:


> Something to remember...
> Component = Analog
> HDMI = Digital
> 
> Better error correction with digital.


Unless you're talking about a long run of cable, there won't be much in the way of errors to correct.


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## transplant (Dec 23, 2005)

Hunter Green said:


> The big advantage of component is that it works. When your 622's HDMI port dies, it won't matter how good the PQ is.  Fortunately for me, my TV's image on component is just as good as HDMI was... once I realized to make the same adjustments to settings for that port as I'd made for the HDMI port! Don't forget to do that if you switch.


If you change from component to hdmi cables what changes do you have to make in setup? Your links no good.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

kcribb1 said:


> HDMI Is way better. I have used both, and I assure you HDMI will blow you away. Get a good pair of Monster cables and YOU will see a difference.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Monster cables, what a rip off. Someone is drinking the Monster cool aid.


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

transplant said:


> If you change from component to hdmi cables what changes do you have to make in setup? Your links no good.


What link?

Most HDTVs with multiple inputs let you calibrate each input separately (brightness, contrast, sharpness, and all that). If you get it beautiful on HDMI and then look at component and don't calibrate there, you might get the mistaken impression the PQ suffers when maybe it doesn't. Seems obvious, but people forget.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> What link?


The one on your Signature


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Hunter Green said:


> What link?
> 
> Most HDTVs with multiple inputs let you calibrate each input separately (brightness, contrast, sharpness, and all that). If you get it beautiful on HDMI and then look at component and don't calibrate there, you might get the mistaken impression the PQ suffers when maybe it doesn't. Seems obvious, but people forget.


The links just take one to the RSS icon for the site not the site.


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

William said:


> Bad advice and NO WAY because they are far over priced for an extreme profit. :sure: Waist of good money and a monster profit for the Monster company. :eek2: MonoPrice has high qulity HDMI cables for a SMALL price.


Agreed and if you need them NOW best buy has a HOUSE brand "acoustic research" which is great and a lot of times you can get them open box (RETURNS) and they are 70% off and like new!

***also dont know if its been mentioned but the last i knew hdmi is only 2.1 dolby digital thats why I had to use hdmi AND Coax audio for soudd to the plasma and I'm using RBG to Projector and I cnat tell the Diff on PQ***


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## screen1st (Dec 13, 2006)

I agree expensive HDMI cables are only necessary for long runs. Although, keep in mind though, that the "digital" signal is still analog in nature. High speed line drivers have analog circuitry to drive the differential voltages. If the "eye pattern" of each bit interval starts to close due to poor shielding, poor terminations etc... the receiver at the other end cannot successfully recover the bit stream. A high bit error rate can lead to degraded performance. 

That being said, there is so much error correction on a Satelite feed, that it would have to be a very poor cable or a long run (>20 ft) to be of much concern. Safe bet is to make sure the HDMI cables are "HDMI" compliant and shop around.

Also, HDMI does support all the audio standards out today (Dolby Digital and DTS). There is new version of HDMI (version 1.3) that supports dolby True HD and DTS-HD, but these standards are only anticipated to be used in HD-DVD players (not satelite for some time). Regardless, True HD can be encoded (PCM) over existing HDMI cables anyway. If you can't get Dolby Digital out of your HDMI output of your 622 than I would check your HTS/RCVR (mine successfully detects and decodes it just fine).


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Sometimes, your picture will change as the new cable "breakes-in"

If you noticle that, be prepared to go through the Break-in again if you pug and un-plug the cable, of flex the cable.

I bought BlueJean cables.

Bob


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> The one on your Signature


Looks like they turned off images in signatures, so what used to work now doesn't. Oh well.


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## TreeFarm (Dec 4, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> Sometimes, your picture will change as the new cable "breakes-in"
> 
> If you noticle that, be prepared to go through the Break-in again if you pug and un-plug the cable, of flex the cable.
> 
> ...


If any of the above happens, you have a bad cable. Trash it and get a new one. I will avoid BlueJean cables if the above is representative of their cables.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> Sometimes, your picture will change as the new cable "breakes-in"
> 
> If you noticle that, be prepared to go through the Break-in again if you pug and un-plug the cable, of flex the cable.
> 
> ...


Since the cable only carries a stream of 0 and 1 like 0011000111101000111 and changing any 0 or 1 is actually an error, how does this so called "break in" alter (or unaltered) the stream?  Is it like using a green magic marker on the outside of CD's?:lol:


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## Buckeye Matrix (Dec 14, 2006)

My experience so far since I have recieved my two tuner HD dvr is the following.
Component= incredible picture, very little screen door affect. HDMI a lot of screen door affect pg was not as seemless. The same hdmi cable on my upscaling dvd made a huge difference. I have a Panny Th50px600U. I actually switched back to component per Dish CSR's advice and the picture is back to "incredible." Anyone else have this happen to them? I want to use the hdmi but Dish says they have had some problems in the past with that port. In theory unihibited data transfer should be superior.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Buckeye Matrix said:


> My experience so far since I have recieved my two tuner HD dvr is the following.
> Component= incredible picture, very little screen door affect. HDMI a lot of screen door affect pg was not as seemless. The same hdmi cable on my upscaling dvd made a huge difference. I have a Panny Th50px600U. I actually switched back to component per Dish CSR's advice and the picture is back to "incredible." Anyone else have this happen to them? I want to use the hdmi but Dish says they have had some problems in the past with that port. In theory unihibited data transfer should be superior.


What's the output resolution of the 622 set too? Major screen door in digital could be telling you that the digital section of the Panny has a problem. 3rd possible is that the Panny is set to high on sharpness and contrast and producing the problem. If last 1 calibartion of the Panny may be the best thing to do.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Actually, electrons flow thru the cable.

Throw away whatever you like.

Buy whatever you like, HDTV ready antennas, THX certified speakers, store bought tomatoes; make your own cables with solder on, or crimp on RCA connectors, silver solder, 60/40.

Have FUN
Bob


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Buckeye Matrix said:


> My experience so far since I have received my two tuner HD dvr is the following.
> Component= incredible picture, very little screen door affect. HDMI a lot of screen door affect pg was not as seamless. The same hdmi cable on my upscaling dvd made a huge difference. I have a Panny Th50px600U. I actually switched back to component per Dish CSR's advice and the picture is back to "incredible." Anyone else have this happen to them? I want to use the hdmi but Dish says they have had some problems in the past with that port. In theory unihibited data transfer should be superior.


I agree with Buckeye. I used HDMI with the 942. I now have the vip622 and - because of all the HDMI problems I read about - am using component. The picture on my Samsung 50" DLP is incredible! Just perfect! I now use my HDMI on my upconverting DVD and am happy with this set up.


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## Buckeye Matrix (Dec 14, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> What's the output resolution of the 622 set too? Major screen door in digital could be telling you that the digital section of the Panny has a problem. 3rd possible is that the Panny is set to high on sharpness and contrast and producing the problem. If last 1 calibartion of the Panny may be the best thing to do.


Output on the box is 1080i but i have tried 720 p but I could not really tell a difference. My settings are
picture +15
color=0
Tint=0
sharpness -15

I have calibrated the tv using DVE but I dont have the color filters, so I set that visually. I will recalibrate and double check the sharpness. As far as the panny the picture now is beyond anything I ever imagined. So things are good and I am happy.


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## sleepy hollow (Aug 25, 2003)

I have component to my analog front view HDTV (CRT) about 65 feet away.

I have HDMI cables going from Yamaha receiver (in separate equip room) and Panasonic projector in HT room to HDMI port in wall (one cable from each side). So that is three separate lengths of cable - [email protected] and the 6 inch "pigtail" on the wall port. That means 6 separate connectors - 1 at each piece of gear and 4 to connect to the wall port. 

All cables and the wall port are monoprice cheapest cables for that length (i.e., smallest AWG). I think I paid $7 for each cable. Everything works just peachy. 

The HD from my projector is superb (720P is better for live sports I find, except FOX, which looks better in 1080i, in my experience). This is true OTA or via Sat.

My analog HDTV looks better with component IMHO. I tested both when I had the 622 near the analog TV (now it is in the equip closet next to the HT).

Regardless, IMHO there is not much difference between HDMI and comoponent, if any, using the gear I have. 

The advantage of HDMI for me is that the Yamaha upconverts any video input (composite, s-video, component, and HDMI) source to HD resolution on the HDMI output. So, the 622, my prog scan DVD recorder/player, and my old DVD player all get the best possible video treatment upstream of the projector. The issue with the HDMI passing only 2.1 audio is really not a big deal, since I can select a sound field on the receiver that is very close to 7.1 in effect. Plus we do not watch a heck of a lot of TV in the HT room. So, it is of minor consequence.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Buckeye Matrix said:


> Output on the box is 1080i but i have tried 720 p but I could not really tell a difference. My settings are
> picture +15
> color=0
> Tint=0
> ...


The numbers on my panny don't do + & -. Mine start at 0 and go up .So I really can't compare by number. I can tell you that picture boost numbers will increase grain in the pix so that might increase the effect that you are talking about.


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## transplant (Dec 23, 2005)

Hunter Green said:


> What link?
> 
> Most HDTVs with multiple inputs let you calibrate each input separately (brightness, contrast, sharpness, and all that). If you get it beautiful on HDMI and then look at component and don't calibrate there, you might get the mistaken impression the PQ suffers when maybe it doesn't. Seems obvious, but people forget.


I bought an HDMI cable from Blue Jeans. I have a Toshiba 52" HDTV and a VIP211 receiver. I removed the component jacks from the TV and from the back of the 211. I plugged in the HDMI cable into the Toshiba and into the HDTV jack in the back of the 211. I get audio, no video??


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

transplant said:


> I bought an HDMI cable from Blue Jeans. I have a Toshiba 52" HDTV and a VIP211 receiver. I removed the component jacks from the TV and from the back of the 211. I plugged in the HDMI cable into the Toshiba and into the HDTV jack in the back of the 211. I get audio, no video??


You have a bad HDMI output. It is common problem on both the 622 & 211.


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## chasby (Jan 9, 2006)

I just called Dish Tech Support with a couple questions regarding my scheduled upgrade to a VIP622 and to my surprise reached a very responsive and extremely knowledgeable representative who clearly answered my questions and recommended that I stay with component inputs until all their problems with HDMI are solved. This works out fine for me since my Anthem AVM-20 has component switching, but not HDMI. Previously I changed over from DVI to component inputs in my dedicated HT (w/Sony HS51A and Dish 811) and noticed absolutely no loss of PQ. 

chasby


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## jcrobso (Mar 30, 2005)

dmspen said:


> Something to remember...
> Component = Analog
> HDMI = Digital
> 
> Better error correction with digital.


The HDMI group didn't think it was necessary for consumers! 
HDMI main benefit is for the copyright holders, not us. John


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## jcrobso (Mar 30, 2005)

robert koerner said:


> Sometimes, your picture will change as the new cable "breakes-in"
> 
> If you noticle that, be prepared to go through the Break-in again if you pug and un-plug the cable, of flex the cable.
> 
> ...


The is HDMI flakiness not the cable. Cables DO NOT NEED TO BE BROKEN IN!!!
HDMI does a handshake routine when connected( similar to modems) if one of the HDMI chips forgets it's setting you have to reseat the HDMI cable or power off one of the units to force the handshake routine to start over. John


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## sundog1 (Dec 20, 2006)

I have read all the posts here on this subject. My tv is a Benq LCD capable of 1080i-has DVI and Component, but no HDMI input.
Tested HR20 hooked up thru component, and thru HDMI-DVI.
Component- great PQ, colors much richer. Black is black.
HDMI-DVI - PQ is good, but colors seem washed out. Black is more grey. (is this the screen door effect?).
All resolution settings are at 1080i (component, dvi, HR20)
All color settings are the same for all inputs. Even tried adjusting color settings on DVI to get colors close to component, but doesnt help.
So based on the above, component looks better.
Question is: now I need to run cables from my A/V closet where the HR20 is, to my study, where the Benq LCD is, about 40'.
If I get a quality component/audio cable will I lose any PQ using a long run?
If HDMI is digital and component is analog, how does that effect the picture, and why does component look better in this case?
HR20 is brand new with latest 10b software download.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

sundog1 said:


> I have read all the posts here on this subject. My tv is a Benq LCD capable of 1080i-has DVI and Component, but no HDMI input.
> Tested HR20 hooked up thru component, and thru HDMI-DVI.
> Component- great PQ, colors much richer. Black is black.
> HDMI-DVI - PQ is good, but colors seem washed out. Black is more grey. (is this the screen door effect?).
> ...


It is likely a calibration or internal problem with the handling of the digital signal of your display causing the discrepancy. Also it could be that what you see as "better looking" may be less accurate to the original source. Just like people are fooled by thinking louder bass and/or treble sounds "better" we often perceive color over saturation as a "better" picture.

Also be sure that your DVI input is set for a video signal and not PC. A PC signal doesn't pass BtB (Blacker than Black) and can cause a lower contrast look when used for ATSC or NTSC video.

Screen door effect is a physical limitation of a digital display most prominent on LCD's. On LCD's it is caused by the wires and transistors that run between the individual pixels. Get up close and you will see what looks just like a screen door on your screen (white background will show it the best).


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## richbogrow (Nov 13, 2006)

sundog1 said:


> I have read all the posts here on this subject. My tv is a Benq LCD capable of 1080i-has DVI and Component, but no HDMI input.
> Tested HR20 hooked up thru component, and thru HDMI-DVI.
> Component- great PQ, colors much richer. Black is black.
> HDMI-DVI - PQ is good, but colors seem washed out. Black is more grey. (is this the screen door effect?).
> ...


I find that component is better than HDMI as well, especially with SD channels. I currently have both hooked up, but will probably take the HDMI cable off of my 622. I don't understand why component looks better either. The only thing I can think of is that Dish did a crappy job on the software end for the HDMI interface. Maybe this is why people have so many problems with HDMI.


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## Misbehaving (Dec 8, 2006)

johnstred said:


> I agree with Buckeye. I used HDMI with the 942. I now have the vip622 and - because of all the HDMI problems I read about - am using component. The picture on my Samsung 50" DLP is incredible! Just perfect! I now use my HDMI on my upconverting DVD and am happy with this set up.


My only motivation for getting an HDMI cable would be if I ever purchase an upconverting DVD player because I've read that upconversion can only truly be done via HDMI output. My question is this, and I know it is a little off topic, but it ties directly to the cable issue. Is upconversion on a DVD player really worth the additional equipment and expensive HDMI cable? I recently purchased a Panny 58PX600U and I'd like to know peoples opinion on this issue.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

rtd2 said:


> Agreed and if you need them NOW best buy has a HOUSE brand "acoustic research" which is great and a lot of times you can get them open box (RETURNS) and they are 70% off and like new!
> 
> ***also dont know if its been mentioned but the last i knew hdmi is only 2.1 dolby digital thats why I had to use hdmi AND Coax audio for soudd to the plasma and I'm using RBG to Projector and I cnat tell the Diff on PQ***


Acoustic Research is hardly a "house" brand. Founded by one of the most famous speaker designer's, it markets excellent, but expensive cables. In most cases you can use much cheaper cables with the same results.


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## eatonjb (Nov 21, 2006)

Misbehaving said:


> My only motivation for getting an HDMI cable would be if I ever purchase an upconverting DVD player because I've read that upconversion can only truly be done via HDMI output. My question is this, and I know it is a little off topic, but it ties directly to the cable issue. Is upconversion on a DVD player really worth the additional equipment and expensive HDMI cable? I recently purchased a Panny 58PX600U and I'd like to know peoples opinion on this issue.


you know, I finaly got a Upconverting DVD player and then hooked my Dish vip622 to the compontent connectors, and noticed no difference. actually , my LG seems to accept more changes to brightness , color etc.

so thats the way I am going to keep it untill I get a HDMI switching Stereo receiver

e..b


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## Virus (Sep 22, 2005)

I always get my cables from bluejeans cable. HDMI looks better on my particular setup for HD. Component looks better for SD channels. Unfortunately my HDMI port died today.


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> Acoustic Research is hardly a "house" brand. Founded by one of the most famous speaker designer's, it markets excellent, but expensive cables. In most cases you can use much cheaper cables with the same results.


Thanks for the info. Makes my deal even better! I got 3 sets of componet 3 Fiber-audio and and HDMI cable as well as a 25 ft s-video in the Acoustic research from BB (Open Box) for less than 150.00! I didnt realize How expensive they are but they areSTILL alot cheaper than Monster!~


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