# Charlie Chat Summary - December 11th, 2006



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*Charlie Chat Summary - December 11th, 2006*​Charlie Chat Hosted by
DISH Network Founder, Chairman and CEO, Charlie Ergen and
Co-founder Jim DeFranco, Senior Executive Vice President.

Eric Sahl on location with "Pinks" from Speed Channel at the Firebird International Raceway, Phoenix

*DISTANT NETWORK CHANNELS*
As of December 1st we no longer broadcast the NY and LA channels to customers who live outside of the NY and LA markets.
Look for updates on channels 240 and 250 if you are affected.
Locals in 174 markets - 96% of US Population Local in Local programming.
Local channels, core channels and premiums are unaffected.
Superstations are unaffected.

*Recent Local Markets - SD*
Sept 21st - Midland-Odessa, TX and Rochester, MN
Oct 12th - Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX (no ABC due to local broadcaster)
Nov 2nd - Palm Springs, CA
Nov 23rd - Dothan, AL (no NBC in market)
Nov 30th - Bangor, ME
Nov 30th - Butte-Bozeman, MT
_Free Preview until January_

*HD Markets - now 28*
No extra charge for HD channels (where available)
Dec 7th - Raleigh, NC (ABC/NBC only) 1000+ required
Dec 14th - Pittsburgh, PA (all four) 1000+ required
Early 2007 - Charlotte, NC (all four) 1000+ required

*Tyra Banks - Happy Holidays!*
Win VIP tickets to her show - including airfare and hotel.
_Weeknights 11PM/10C and 12AM/11C on 127 Oxygen_

(Later in the show - Nintendo wii gamer's package)

*Programming Updates* with Eric Sahl
NFL Network - 154 SD / 9426 HD in AT60/DishHD Bronze and higher
HD Preview on channel 287 this month
Exclusive: Six regular season games and two bowls - Texas Bowl and Insight Bowl

ReelzChannel - Channel 299

PPV Comedy Channel 530 - $3.99 per movie

Holiday Music from Sirius (AT120/Silver or higher)
6002, 6062, 6086
Holiday Music on 982 (all customers)

Ultimate Fight Championship - Dec 30th - $39.95
Channel 455/472

WWE Road to Wreslemania 23 - $99.00
http://www.dishnetwork.com/wrestling
_Available to order Dec 20th_

PINKS - Drag race for pink slips
Season 4 starts February, 2007
Wed @ 9:30pm ET on Speed (Channel 150)
Guest: Rich Christensen of "Pinks!"

Guest: Kevin Pereira co-host "Attack of the Show/G4 Network"
Live hour show on technology. 9pm Weeknights on Channel 191.
Top five gifts:
5) Forever Flashlight - $24.99-$34.99
Shake for 30 seconds to get 30 minutes of light.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/
4) T-Shirt - Graphical EQ built in - $19.95
http://www.paramountzone.com/
3) PocketDISH - AV700E - $399
http://www.pocketdish.com/
2) Nintendo wii - $250-$350
http://www.nintendo.com/
1) Vizio TV - 42" LCD HDTV - $999
http://www.vinc.us/

Giveaway - wii Gamer's Pack and a PocketDish AV700E

Mayor Bill Merrit of Dish Texas - Holiday Greeting

Charlie's Christmas memories ... gag gifts.
Jim's Christmas memories ... burning down the house.

Holiday Story email from customer "Charles"
Family tradition - gather the fixings for dinner then leave for the needy.
Knock on the door and run! never taking credit for the giving.

*QUESTIONS!* (at the 43 minute mark!)
Q: Email from Wilson - When will the Hallmark Movie Channel be added?
A: Only available in our family pack. We need to talk about that with Hallmark.

Q: Call from Scott - Music on Hold

Q: Email from Steven - Lost distant networks, local antenna doesn't work.
A: Four choices: (really five)
1) Local Channels on Satellite
2) Off Air Antenna
3) DirecTV or lifeline Cable
4) New company - "All American Direct" (Slide shown)
http://www.mydistantnetworks.com/ or call 1-800-909-9677 to see if you qualify.

Q: Call from Oscar - Fairbanks viewer, can't get 129° HD.
A: Spotbeams for Alaska to carry Anchorage. Fairbanks from 148° prior to June 2007.
Hawaii is similar - special HD packages for Alaska and Hawaii. (Locals per the new law.)

Q: Call from Wes - Kevin (G4 guy), Favorite game for the wii?
A: wii sports comes with the unit, also Trama Center (allows you to operate on people) and Zelda.

wii winner: Steve Epler of Haleyville, AL (customer since August 6, 2001)

Q: Email from Danielle - Free preview channels?
A: Neighborhood just below channel 300 - resuffled about monthly. Channel 290 area.
Not available to Family Pack subscribers (and other non AT subscribers).

Q: Call from David - ViP-622 DVR enhanced PIP split screen.
A: (Jan Johnson - GM Product Communications) "Not quite yet but it is coming soon."

Q: Email from Vanessa - Password protect on PPV and forgot the password?
A: Call an agent and we can unlock your receiver.

Q: Email from Randy - How do you use a PPV coupon without paper bill?
A: Just mail the coupon to the address on the back of the coupon in a normal envelope.

Q: Email from Daniel - Free updates for outdated equipment?
A: We would like to make a profit. We give you good deals - call us.

Trip Winner: Rey Saban of Pittsburgh, PA (customer since November 3, 2005)

Next Tech Forum: February 12, 2006 - 9pm ET
(No January Chat mentioned)

More information on Charlie Chats and Tech Forums available here on the DishNetwork Website.
Expected Rebroadcast Times (on Channels 101, 490 and 580):
Thursday, December 14th, 9pm ET
Saturday, December 16th, 5am
Sunday, December 17th, 5am & 7pm
Monday, December 18th, 9pm
Thursday, December 21st, 9pm ET
Saturday, December 23rd, 5am
Sunday, December 24th, 5am & 7pm
Monday, December 25th, 9pm
Thursday, December 28th, 9pm ET


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

So basically they announced...nothing.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

less than nothing


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Not entirely nothing ...


> *HD Markets - now 28*
> No extra charge for HD channels (where available)
> Dec 7th - Raleigh, NC (ABC/NBC only) 1000+ required
> Dec 14th - Pittsburgh, PA (all four) 1000+ required
> Early 2007 - Charlotte, NC (all four) 1000+ required


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

James Long said:


> Q: Call from David - ViP-622 DVR enhanced PIP split screen.
> A: (Jan Johnson - GM Product Communications) "Not quite yet but it is coming soon."


Wish D* had this on their units.


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## Dave1997 (Jun 21, 2005)

YES!!!!! on the Pittsburgh HD Locals


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## gjh3260 (Mar 19, 2006)

no mention on HD RSN's and when they MIGHT be available :nono2:


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## lifterguy (Dec 22, 2003)

Does anyone know which satellite will be used for the Pittsburgh HD channels? I currently have a VIP622 with Dish 500 and a second dish pointed at 61.5. The chat transcript says it will require a Dish 1000+. Does that mean Dish will have to come out and install new hardware before I can get HD locals?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I didn't watch the Chat yet.. - What was the duration of the Chat?


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer (Feb 20, 2005)

lifterguy said:


> Does anyone know which satellite will be used for the Pittsburgh HD channels? I currently have a VIP622 with Dish 500 and a second dish pointed at 61.5. The chat transcript says it will require a Dish 1000+. Does that mean Dish will have to come out and install new hardware before I can get HD locals?


Yes, sir. I think you'll have to give up 61.5, too, since there isn't a way to combine 5 satellite orbital locations YET.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Darkman said:


> I didn't watch the Chat yet.. - What was the duration of the Chat?


One hour.


SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> Yes, sir. I think you'll have to give up 61.5, too, since there isn't a way to combine 5 satellite orbital locations YET.


You can have a 500+ (a 1000+ without the 129° LNB) and 61.5° - four locations - if 61.5° is better than 129° at your location.


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## DanB474 (May 28, 2004)

"We will have RSN's in HD very, very soon" (Charlie Ergen, sometime this last summer)


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## army1 (Mar 22, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> less than nothing


you got it, same o, same o


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## gjh3260 (Mar 19, 2006)

DanB474 said:


> "We will have RSN's in HD very, very soon" (Charlie Ergen, sometime this last summer)


Dish definition:

soon = when he** freezes over (no hockey pun intended)


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## veeper2006 (Dec 9, 2006)

gjh3260 said:


> Dish definition:
> 
> soon = when he** freezes over (no hockey pun intended)


It is understandable to get frustrated at Charlie but we must remember this is a complex technology. I guess what might help would be for Charlie to set some goals and announce them. Personally I would love to see him implement native pass-through with the 622. This has been talked about previously and shouldn't be that hard a software fix.

Problem is Charlie shoots himself in the foot everytime he says "coming soon". Charlie if I can offer some advice --- give us a range of when certain tasks are projected to be accomplished. At least give us an idea or timeline range. The thing of it is -- Charlie can still tag the programmers on most of these timelines -- if they screw up -- blame it on them -- but at least the consumer has hope of fixes to come.

Sorry Charlie, my advice is free though -- take it or leave it.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

James,

Thanks for doing the work to create the post. I liked its concise nature.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

My guess is that they had hoped to be able to announce RSNs in HD and some updates to the 622. But neither of these came true and they didn't want to cancel the chat, so they were left with nothing to really say. since the deadline passed, now I think we won't see any of it until before the next chat a couple of months from now. Anyone want to take bets on that?

And there were betas of NBR for the 500s months ago, but still nothing released yet? Don't get that either. I think it was last May (that is 2005 May) when Charlie said he thought that would be out "soon".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Without getting theological, there are some mysteries in life. We don't always know why things happen or don't happen. Is the man in charge trying his best to make our life easy or does he really care? The closer you get to Charlie the closer you come to the answer. You will find that he isn't the all powerful controller of the company able to make anything happen at a click of his fingers. He is just the public face of a company that is facing a lot of challenges.

I believe he has a sincere desire to have his company do what he said they would do. What exactly the problems are that are holding things back are a good question - but not one I expect an answer for until a release comes. It is easier to say "here you go, that took longer than expected" than to answer every month to an audience that is less than forgiving.

Where are the things we desire? The upgrades that have been hinted at or promised? Coming soon. When? It is a mystery.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

James Long said:


> Without getting theological, there are some mysteries in life. We don't always know why things happen or don't happen. Is the man in charge trying his best to make our life easy or does he really care? The closer you get to Charlie the closer you come to the answer. You will find that he isn't the all powerful controller of the company able to make anything happen at a click of his fingers. He is just the public face of a company that is facing a lot of challenges.
> 
> I believe he has a sincere desire to have his company do what he said they would do. What exactly the problems are that are holding things back are a good question - but not one I expect an answer for until a release comes. It is easier to say "here you go, that took longer than expected" than to answer every month to an audience that is less than forgiving.
> 
> Where are the things we desire? The upgrades that have been hinted at or promised? Coming soon. When? It is a mystery.


NOTHING happens, or doesn't happen without Mr. Ergen's blessings. He has absolute operating authority of the company, because he is the absoulte majority holder of voting shares.

Yes, he's the face. He's also the boss. Big time. Whether that's good or bad, is your perception.


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

James Long said:


> Q: Call from Oscar - Fairbanks viewer, can't get 129° HD.
> A: Spotbeams for Alaska to carry Anchorage. Fairbanks from 148° prior to June 2007.
> Hawaii is similar - special HD packages for Alaska and Hawaii. (Locals per the new law.)


I missed the chat. Does this mean that our locals and the HD package will be on 148 and the rest of the channels on 110 & 119? We need 3 dishes when this happens?

Is the "special HD package" the same one that is up now (Showtime, HBO, ESPN, HDNet Movies, HDNet, Discovery and THT for the 921/942 plus Universal for the 622) or will we get more channels?

Jim


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks for the recap James, nice job.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

Glad I watched the football game.


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

UTFAN said:


> NOTHING happens, or doesn't happen without Mr. Ergen's blessings. He has absolute operating authority of the company, because he is the absoulte majority holder of voting shares.
> 
> Yes, he's the face. He's also the boss. Big time. Whether that's good or bad, is your perception.


He's also not the guy trying to debug and optimize code to run in a tiny little bit of memory.

Software development takes time, and sometimes, you get hundreds (or thousands) of lines of code all set, but it doesn't behave quite as expected. So now you have to debug it, and the more complex a relatively stable system gets, the harder it becomes to point to any one section of code and say "aha! That's the culprit right there..."

To most, features seem easy to implement, and in reality, some may be easy to implement. But more often than not, it takes a lot of work, testing, more work, more testing, more work to get it working correctly... and don't forget, the code has to run FAST, too, or the system won't be able to keep up.

Also, in a complex system, when you make changes in one area of the program code, you're likely to affect other areas, even unintentionally.

No, it ain't rocket science. But it ain't tic-tac-toe, either.

Sure, Charlie can make it so... he can even say "make it so by December 30, 2006."

Doesn't mean it'll happen by that date.


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

veeper2006 said:


> I guess what might help would be for Charlie to set some goals and announce them.


They've done this, too. Announced dates, and then when that date slipped, they caught hell for not getting whatever done by the date they set.

I suspect they get less grief over "coming soon" than by setting a specific date and then missing that date.


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## david803sc (Jun 22, 2006)

They say the will add Charlotte HD locals, what satellite will those be on?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jim Parker said:


> I missed the chat. Does this mean that our locals and the HD package will be on 148 and the rest of the channels on 110 & 119? We need 3 dishes when this happens?
> 
> Is the "special HD package" the same one that is up now (Showtime, HBO, ESPN, HDNet Movies, HDNet, Discovery and THT for the 921/942 plus Universal for the 622) or will we get more channels?


I'd say that the "special HD package" is the new small package that is available only to AK and HI from 110° spotbeams. The "Fairbanks locals from 148°" comment is odd to me. I didn't know they had a satellite at 148° capable of hitting Alaska.


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## veeper2006 (Dec 9, 2006)

oldave said:


> They've done this, too. Announced dates, and then when that date slipped, they caught hell for not getting whatever done by the date they set.
> 
> I suspect they get less grief over "coming soon" than by setting a specific date and then missing that date.


Having worked in government -- I have often had to rely upon blaming "the nameless/faceless bureaucrat" in another dept.

Charlie would still be wise to give some parameters to intended upgrades. A customer base without hope and anticipation is one angry mob


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## redsalmon (Oct 16, 2006)

From the Chat:

"Q: Call from Oscar - Fairbanks viewer, can't get 129° HD.
A: Spotbeams for Alaska to carry Anchorage. Fairbanks from 148° prior to June 2007.
Hawaii is similar - special HD packages for Alaska and Hawaii. (Locals per the new law.)"


Jim, I believe the spotbeams for Anchorage are on the new 110. On my 622 for sat 110 tps 4,12,26,27,29,and 31 are lit up like Christmas Trees. Booming in at nearly max on my 6' dish. All of these aren't used for the new 5500 series channels in the new HD package, only tp29, tp27, tp12, are used for them so that leaves 4 spots for the HD locals and tp18 is also suppose to be hot but it isn't lit up yet.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Charlie and Dish seem to be darned if they do and darned if they don't...

If they say "coming soon" then people rag on them for being vague and not being soon... If they give a date, and miss that date, then people complain they "lied" to them... If they say nothing at all or give a generic "we will look into that" answer, people say they are being evasive or non-responsive.

I don't think there is an answer Charlie or Dish could give that would make some folks content.


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## fsquid (Aug 30, 2006)

> Early 2007 - Charlotte, NC (all four) 1000+ required


YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! What does Early mean?? May?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

oldave said:


> He's also not the guy trying to debug and optimize code to run in a tiny little bit of memory.
> 
> Software development takes time, and sometimes, you get hundreds (or thousands) of lines of code all set, but it doesn't behave quite as expected. So now you have to debug it, and the more complex a relatively stable system gets, the harder it becomes to point to any one section of code and say "aha! That's the culprit right there..."
> 
> ...


Good take Dave. I have said the similar thing many times..


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Charlie said "No extra charge for HD channels (where available)"

What does this mean - Last I checked I am being forced to buy a special package to get HD (Silver). Am I missing something?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Guitar1969 said:


> Charlie said "No extra charge for HD channels (where available)"
> 
> What does this mean - Last I checked I am being forced to buy a special package to get HD (Silver). Am I missing something?


Sorry for the unclarity --- it was a reference to HD LILs, not the national HD packages.
E* does not charge extra for HD locals, they are included in the SD locals price (although they are only available via ViP HD receivers).


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

James Long said:


> The "Fairbanks locals from 148°" comment is odd to me. I didn't know they had a satellite at 148° capable of hitting Alaska.


I don't have a dish looking at 148, but a neighbor down the street was picking up CBS from 148 a year or so ago. I don't know if there are any spotbeams on 148 for Alaska or not.

Dish will not ship me a 622, maybe this has something to do with it.

This will probably be made clearer when the activation date get closer.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> So basically they announced...nothing.


Nah! They wasted time:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

James Long said:


> One hour.You can have a 500+ (a 1000+ without the 129° LNB) and 61.5° - four locations - if 61.5° is better than 129° at your location.


It's not a question of "if 61.5° is better than 129° at your location" if you are a Sky Angel sub. If your HD locals are on 129 and you also get Sky Angel how do you pull this off?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You can do four satellites easily ---
HD Locals 129° Only + core channels on 119° and 110° - that's three satellites. The fourth slot is available for 61.5° SkyAngel. (HD Nationals are the same on 129° and 61.5°, except the demo , but you are getting both locations so that is irrelevant.)

If your HD Locals end up on 118° (the PLUS location) you can pull 118°, 110° and 119° off of a Dish 500+ then either add the extra LNB for 129° making it a Dish 1000+ _or_ adding a wing dish for 61.5° for the same national HD plus SkyAngel (if you want that).

You have the four inputs needed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jim Parker said:


> I don't have a dish looking at 148, but a neighbor down the street was picking up CBS from 148 a year or so ago. I don't know if there are any spotbeams on 148 for Alaska or not.


148° is occupied by the two oldest satellites in the fleet, E1 and E2. Each satellite can serve 16 transponders, all CONUS (as far as can be seen from that position). Hawaii cannot get the 148° satellites because of their design (they were designed for 119°). I'm supprised AK can get a usable signal.


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## DanB474 (May 28, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Charlie and Dish seem to be darned if they do and darned if they don't...
> 
> I don't think there is an answer Charlie or Dish could give that would make some folks content.


There IS an answer that Charlie could give that would satisfy me. He could tell us what the holdup is so that we understand why they couldn't get the HD RSN's "very soon". Just say "sorry it hasn't happened yet, but it's due to problem X". I would be happy that Charlie is at least communicating to his customers. That's all I ask for, especially when something is promised and not delivered.


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## bluewolverine (Jan 22, 2006)

DanB474 said:


> There IS an answer that Charlie could give that would satisfy me. He could tell us what the holdup is so that we understand why they couldn't get the HD RSN's "very soon". Just say "sorry it hasn't happened yet, but it's due to problem X". I would be happy that Charlie is at least communicating to his customers. That's all I ask for, especially when something is promised and not delivered.


Isn't that the lesson elementary school teachers impart to their students?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

DanB474 said:


> There IS an answer that Charlie could give that would satisfy me. He could tell us what the holdup is so that we understand why they couldn't get the HD RSN's "very soon". Just say "sorry it hasn't happened yet, but it's due to problem X". I would be happy that Charlie is at least communicating to his customers. That's all I ask for, especially when something is promised and not delivered.


But why does he have to do this? There could be confidentiality agreements in the negotiations process that prevent him from saying too much even if he wanted to... but he by no means owes anyone such an explanation.

Again, if he had just said nothing to begin with... then people would be mad that he didn't say anything... but by even implying "soon" he has apparently gotten himself into trouble with folks who want to beat it to death every other day that he hasn't been "soon" enough for them.

And in this case... how has he promised something and not delivered? He said they were working on the RSNs and hoped to have them soon... where was the promise? And even if he literally said "I promise we will have them soon", what does that even mean? Soon is a relative term. If his company exists for the next 100 years, then a 5-year window is relatively "soon" in the lifespan of the company.

I just don't get some of the "sky is falling" reactions sometimes. The sky hasn't even cracked or dropped pebbles, much less began to fall... and if he gets RSNs anytime "soon" then that will be fine with me... but I'm not calendar counting the days to decide if it has been "soon" enough.

And all of that said... IF he did say "we are having problem X" as you say... then folks would be watching problem X and saying "hey did you fix problem X yet" and "when will you fix problem X" and if problem X gets fixed, people will demand "hey you said problem X was the only reason so I want it now"... and we will be right back where we started.

Personally, as much as I'd love to see RSNs in HD I find myself taxed to watch all the channels I already have, so I wouldn't notice not having them right now and if I didn't see the threads about them, I wouldn't even remember they were even working on them.


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## Dish Cubfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Dish is letting Direct TV kick their behind on RSNs in HD.


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## Pat A (May 29, 2002)

James Long said:


> 148° is occupied by the two oldest satellites in the fleet, E1 and E2. Each satellite can serve 16 transponders, all CONUS (as far as can be seen from that position). Hawaii cannot get the 148° satellites because of their design (they were designed for 119°). I'm supprised AK can get a usable signal.


Actually, 148 comes in great for us in Anchorage. Its a lot closer to us physically. I put up a 24" antenna a couple of years ago to get CBSHD, and was seeing signal strengths in the 60s and 70s. I really wish dish would mirror the HD channels at 129 on 148 for us up here. 
Jim, I was just talking to Dish CS the other night, about upgrading my 942 to a 622, and they told me that I qualify for the $199 lease promo. I would try CSR roulette agian.


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Pat
Thanks for the info. Have you actually ordered it yet?

My wife tried the first time, I tried, transferred to a supervisor, then to her supervisor. So, I'm 0 for 4 now.

I sent off a long letter to [email protected], but have not heard back yet. I'll post the results in the Alaska HD thread.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Maybe the tech chats should include someone from the development team so that they can give us a more accurate estimate as to when an enhancement or bug fix is released.

Also, what is an RSN?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

lujan said:


> Also, what is an RSN?


Regional Sports Network, ie Fox Sports channels.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

lujan said:


> Maybe the tech chats should include someone from the development team so that they can give us a more accurate estimate as to when an enhancement or bug fix is released.
> 
> Also, what is an RSN?


Actually they do have representation from the development team on the tech chats. Those are the guys that are sitting there waiting to answer the questions. As for accurate estimates, in most companies priorities are very fluid and can change frequently. Same goes with bug fix estimates etc. Even if they provided time frames I would personally take it with a grain of salt.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Actually they do have representation from the development team on the tech chats. Those are the guys that are sitting there waiting to answer the questions. As for accurate estimates, in most companies priorities are very fluid and can change frequently. Same goes with bug fix estimates etc. Even if they provided time frames I would personally take it with a grain of salt.


And for some things, bags full of salt wouldn't be adequate. Chats/Tech Forums mentioned NBR to be included as far back as Feb '04. First rollout to 522 in the summer of '04, followed by 5xx series. Curtis has represented developement the last two times 5xx NBR has come up this year to provide the last two missed time frames. It isn't that much longer until it will have been three years since first mentioned on a tech chat. It makes the other estimates look remarkably good.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Personally I am really surprised that they even are attempting it on the 5XX series. To me it seems like a feature they could have easily just targeted new receivers with. Just don't see the cost benefit ratio of moving that feature over to the 5XX receivers.


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

HDMe said:


> But why does he have to do this? There could be confidentiality agreements in the negotiations process that prevent him from saying too much even if he wanted to... but he by no means owes anyone such an explanation.


Any negotiation like this begins with the signing of Non-Disclosure Agreements by both parties. Which is why during the Lifetime pissing contest, no actual numbers were ever provided. Just vague generalities like "this many percent more" and "only pennies more."



HDMe said:


> I just don't get some of the "sky is falling" reactions sometimes. The sky hasn't even cracked or dropped pebbles, much less began to fall... and if he gets RSNs anytime "soon" then that will be fine with me... but I'm not calendar counting the days to decide if it has been "soon" enough.


Instant gratification. That's what it's all about.

As soon as something is available (The Fox RSNs in HD, for example), there are those whose lives are simply not complete unless they can get them.

Personally, while I think HD can have great picture quality, I'm not sure that the experience of watching a football, baseball or basketball game, or a car race or anything else for that matter, is diminished all that much by having a good quality standard definition picture instead of the eye-popping high definition picture.

So you miss a pixel here and a pixel there... here a pixel, there a pixel, everywhere a pixel, pixel... oops, sorry, got off track there for a second...

The point is that I'm undecided whether having no bigger problems than whether Charlie delivers something people want within the time frame they want is a blessing or a curse. Sometimes I wish all I had to worry about was whether I could watch a TV show in high def or not... but then I think it would be horrible to have a life that dull.  (Yeah, I know I've spent a lot of time posting here lately... but it's winter :lol: )


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

oldave said:


> The point is that I'm undecided whether having no bigger problems than whether Charlie delivers something people want within the time frame they want is a blessing or a curse. Sometimes I wish all I had to worry about was whether I could watch a TV show in high def or not... but then I think it would be horrible to have a life that dull.  (Yeah, I know I've spent a lot of time posting here lately... but it's winter :lol: )


Agreed... If that was my biggest worry (when channel XXX would be in HD on Dish), I would be a lot more stress-free!


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## Rebollos (Feb 1, 2006)

For me he said something interesting, but not true. If I recall correctly he said something like "if you want to upgrade and you have been a loyal customer for a long time call us and we will give you a good deal". I am a customer since 1996, and I am getting the same deal as if I was a customer since 2005, in regards to HD, and please correct me if i am wrong.

The thing the really bothers me is that I payed back in 1996 $800, including programming, equipment, and installation to get DISH, while somebody that signed in 2005 had everything free, and up to 4 rooms, but if both want HD we have to pay the same, and that is not FAIR.

I called DISH many times, and send emails, expalining this situation, and I always received the same response, "you took advantage of our deal when you signed up" WHAT DEAL I PAYED $800!!!!!!

Thank you for reading


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## gjh3260 (Mar 19, 2006)

DanB474 said:


> There IS an answer that Charlie could give that would satisfy me. He could tell us what the holdup is so that we understand why they couldn't get the HD RSN's "very soon". Just say "sorry it hasn't happened yet, but it's due to problem X". I would be happy that Charlie is at least communicating to his customers. That's all I ask for, especially when something is promised and not delivered.


I agree. I think it would be nice if Charlie would address the WHY of why the HD RSN's are not happening. At least it would cut down on the speculation of why its not available yet.

Tonight for example the Pens/Flyers are in HD on ch 9467. It is the HD feed from FSN Pittsburgh. Is it easier to broadcast a feed nationally as opposed to just a specific part of the country ?? And what about those NHL HD channels that are uplinked (ch 387-393) whats up with those ? A little more specifics Charlie would cut down on the speculation.

There is no comparison watching a hockey game in HD vs SD.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Rebollos,

Why is it not fair? Seriously... why do you think Dish owes you something?

I subscribe to Dish, and I pay for a service... if they provide that service and I pay for it then we are each getting what we want. They don't owe me for paying my bill on time as agreed.

Maybe your employer should figure your salary using the same logic? Since you have worked there for more than 5 years, and he has paid you all that time... he should get a discount and be able to pay you less than he would a new employee, right?

I'm thinking not.


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

Rebollos said:


> The thing the really bothers me is that I payed back in 1996 $800, including programming, equipment, and installation to get DISH, while somebody that signed in 2005 had everything free, and up to 4 rooms, but if both want HD we have to pay the same, and that is not FAIR.


Sorry... have to call BS on this one.

Where was it written (or even implied) when you signed up for Dish Network in 1996 that you could expect to be given anything for free somewhere down the road?

You paid the price at the time, and you got what you were told you would get for that price. Promotions change from time to time. You could have waited for one of those promotions, but you chose not to. There was no promise when you signed up that sometime later, they would replace your gear, or send you additional equipment for free.

The promotions today are what they are. Deal with them. If you're upset that Dish Network has made a profit off you for all these years, then by all means, stop paying them. But they're under no obligation to take that profit and give it back to you in the form of free equipment. I hate it for you, but that's the way it is.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

HDMe said:


> Agreed... If that was my biggest worry (when channel XXX would be in HD on Dish), I would be a lot more stress-free!


HD porn?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I resisted saying that!


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## Rebollos (Feb 1, 2006)

I think you are both right, and I made a mistake, thank you for open my eyes.

So if DISH decides after the current offer to give existing customers that want to upgrade to HD, 2 free VIP622 and free programming for 3 months, nobody who got a vip622 in the 2005 will have anything to complaint about...


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

James Long said:


> I resisted saying that!


Why??

Don't be SHY now..


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Rebollos said:


> I think you are both right, and I made a mistake, thank you for open my eyes.
> 
> So if DISH decides after the current offer to give existing customers that want to upgrade to HD, 2 free VIP622 and free programming for 3 months, nobody who got a vip622 in the 2005 will have anything to complaint about...


100% correct. I just paid the $199 upgrade plan to get my ViP622. The offer expires January 31st. If on Feb 1st they announce a $99 upgrade plan (or better), then I have nothing to complain about. I could have kept waiting if I didn't think I was getting a good deal now.

Virtually anything you ever buy is going to be cheaper or better (or sometimes both) in a few months... but you can't get money back from every company!


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## HuggieBear (Nov 17, 2006)

HDMe said:


> 100% correct. I just paid the $199 upgrade plan to get my ViP622. The offer expires January 31st. If on Feb 1st they announce a $99 upgrade plan (or better), then I have nothing to complain about. I could have kept waiting if I didn't think I was getting a good deal now.
> 
> Virtually anything you ever buy is going to be cheaper or better (or sometimes both) in a few months... but you can't get money back from every company!


So true, all ya can do is kick yourself for not waiting, which I do often :lol:


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

Rebollos said:


> I think you are both right, and I made a mistake, thank you for open my eyes.
> 
> So if DISH decides after the current offer to give existing customers that want to upgrade to HD, 2 free VIP622 and free programming for 3 months, nobody who got a vip622 in the 2005 will have anything to complaint about...


That's exactly it.

But suppose it goes the other way... and they change the promotion to charge $299 instead of $199. Would you then think that you owed Dish Network $100? I didn't think so.

If you buy a gallon of milk for $3.50 on Friday, and the on Sunday, the grocery store puts milk on sale for $2.50 a gallon, do you go back to the store and demand your dollar back?

When you buy something... milk, gasoline, a car, a television, a satellite receiver... anything at all... you pay the going rate at that time. That's the choice you make - to buy at that time, at that price.


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