# Dish Network Tecnical Forum Recap - 02/11/08



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

*Dish Network Technical Forum 02/11/08*

*Hosts*
Mark Jackson - President Echostar Corp.
Dan Minnick - VP Software Engineering

*Overview:*


CES Awards for Echostar
VIP612 DVR Launch
Digital Transition Special Guest
Archos Portable Media Players
Trivia Giveaway

*CES Awards: *

*First up, Dan Landreth, VP Engineering out of Atlanta*
Showed his footage from CES
2008 CNET Best of CES Awards
Showed a lot of video from Echostar/Dish Network booth as well as various other booths all to music, no dialog
Dan then talked a bit about his favorite items

*TR-50 DVR - Best of CES Award - Video Category - by CNET*

Digital OTA receiver with built in DVR
7 Days of Guide Data
Expandability with USB Port
Internal drive size still TBD
Ethernet Port for additional features
Due out in the Summe
*
SlingCatcher - CES Best of Innovations
SlingPayer 2.0 - CES Innovations Design Honoree*
*
ViP 211 Conversion - Adding USB HD to ViP211 HD Receiver Summer '08 - won a CES Awards as well*

Trick Modes
Extended Guide to 9 days
Ability to record shows from Sat Tuner or OTA Tuner

Showed a slide of their awarding winning ViP622 and ViP722
What does ViP Stand for? Video IP
Can connect to the Internet and use DishONLINE movie service to download and view movies to your ViP products.

*New Product:*

*ViP612 HD DVR*

Perfect for Mult-HDTV Home
Dual-tuner receiver for one TV
MPEG-4 technology
Record Time:
Standard-Definition up to 200 hours
High-Definition up to 30 hours
View and record OTA digital/HD broadcasts
Pricing and availability at www.dishnetwork.com

*Digital Transition:*

Digital transition and pubic safety act passed on 2005
By February 17, 2009 all full power United States TV stations will no longer broadcast an analog signal
This affects anyone watching OTA broadcasts.
Back to Dan Landreth .... 
What does it mean? 
Generally means a better quality pictures and it frees up spectrum.
David Goodfriend VP of Gov. Affiars via phone ....
in addition the spectrum the government gets back is being auctioned off to be used for new services.
What else? ....
Can have a program guide.
Broadcasters can broadcast more than one channel, i.e. an all weather channel or all news channel, some are splitting into 5 SD channels.

*What do you need to do?*

If you TV was shipped into US after March 19, 2007 it was required to have a digital tuner or be digital ready.
If you bought a DVD Recorder or VCR after May 25, 2007 it was required to have a digital tuner or a warning.
Need to check your TV and make sure it has a built in Digital Tuner.
If you TV has DTV, ATSC, HDTV = Digital
If it says something like Integrated Digital Tuner or HD Ready your fine.
If you TV is not digital ready you need to get a converter box. Prices range from about $40.00 - $70.00. The government is giving out up to 2 coupons per household good for up to $40.00 off each towards digital converter boxes.

To get the coupons go to www.dtv2009.gov. If you need an antenna go to www.antennaweb.org for antenna solutions.

Difference between DTV and HDTV, not all DTV is HDTV. HDTV requires 3 things, TV, receiver, and content all need to be HDTV capable to get HDTV.

*Digital Broadcast Solutions:*

If you subscribe to Dish Network your fine.
If you subscribe to other pay TV services your fine.
Otherwise, Digital to Analog Converter Box or integrated receiver with a Digital OTA tuner
TR-40 - $39.99 - Digital to Analog converter box.
TR-50 - Records two digital OTA channels, Large hard drive for HD and SD, Ethernet and USB Ports, Cost to be determined. Not eligible for coupon program.

*Coupon Program:*
First thing to do is sign up - www.dtv.gov, will direct you on how to order.
Once you get the coupon you can go to any participating retailer that has an eligible receiver and give them the number on the coupon they will credit you up to $40.00. If it's less than $40.00 it will not cost you anything but tax.

Coupons expire 90 day's after they send to you but the Echostar boxes will not be out until June so make sure you wait to order if you want those boxes.

Again if you are a Dish Network subscriber this is not an issue.

*ClubDish:*

*What you get:*
$50.00 in credits $5 per month for 10 months
One Time enrollment gifsts
5 FREE pay per view coupons and a free dishmover coupon

*What your friends or family get:*
Option 1: 
Regular Digital Home Advantage (DHA)
Free Standard Professional Installation
Free DVR or HD DVR equipment upgrade

Option 2. 
For DHA 24 (24 month commitment)
$39.99 credit for 3 months (1st, 10th, and 20th months)
$30 credit on 1st bill, free activation ($49.99 value)
Free Standard Professional Installation
Free DVR or HD DVR equipment upgrade

Call: 1-888-920-GIFT (4438) or go to www.dishnetwork.com for more information.

*Trivia Time - ViP612 Giveaway:*
What is the only channel in the United States between 2 and 83 that has never been assigned?

*Questions:*

*Gerald*: How does the TR-50 stack up to the ViP622/ViP722?
*Answer*: It is scaled down. It will only record Digital Terrestrial Signals, OTA only. Guide will not be as robust as local channels to not always broadcast as much detail. It is also not eligible for the coupon program. No Dish Network programing.

*Dee*: I bought a new HDTV TV this weekend, 1080p, and everything works well but the locals channels don't look good, I don't have an HDTV receiver. Would an HDTV receiver help any and how?
*Answer*: Yes, if you live in a city that we carry local HD channels you'll get them and there is also a built in OTA tuner where you can hook up an external antenna to get them over the air if we don't carry them.

*Marty*: Question about the DVR functionality with the new external Hard Drive? Will there be folder support on the external hard drive?
*Answer*: Yes, we are looking at adding folder capability where the USB drive will show up a s folder in your DVR list in a release coming out in the spring.

*Jerry*: What is the maximum drive size for the external USB Hard Drive feature?
*Answer*: 750GB is the current, but the limit will be going up in a release coming out in the spring.

*Stewart*: I have a new LCD with PIP but it doesn't work. How do I get it to work?
*Answer*: 2 options, Dish Network has several receivers with PIP built into the receiver. Check to see if yours has it, or upgrade to one that does i.e. ViP722. The other option is you need a second video source like another Dish receiver or DVD player to hook up to another input on your TV.

*Michael*: I would like you to turn off permanently message 908. 
*Answer*: Message 908 comes up when you press the aux button on your remote and lets you know that you need to press the Sat. button to control the satellite. It will be a feature you can turn off via the menu after a spring release.

*Dennis*: We just replaced our receivers from the 811 to the 211 the 811 had local off air guide data but the 211 does not. It seems like we downgraded.
*Answer*: With the 211 in order to see local guide data you have to have locals in your package, if you don't have the local package you will not see guide data. On the 811 you did not have to do that.

*Dean*: Why does my Satellite turn itself off every night at 3:00am
*Answer*: Nightly standby, it does this for updates and to refresh the guide data. You can either change this to different time or if you TV supports Sleep you can set your TV to turn itself off before 3:00am so you don't get static.

*Daryl*: I have an external HD connected to my DVR. You have formatted my hard drive so I can't use it for personal use. What format did you put on it? It's not your proprietary hardware, I don't feel this is right?
*Answer*: When you install it, we put a warning up saying that we have to reformat the drive. We do this to make sure it's setup to work with our video. We do put up a warning. You can take back to your PC and reformat but you'll lose any programming you have on it. Again, there is clear warning about this when you first connect it. Video will not work anywhere but on Dish receivers.

*Josh*: I was looking for an HD DVR that outputs HD to both TVs, do you know when one of those will be coming out?
*Answer*: We've been talking about this, but not sure how we would get that signal to your second TV. We need to figure out to do that with the wiring in your home. We are working on it, product in development, just started, but do not have a timeline yet.

*Tom*: You currently broadcast in 720p and 1080i, just curious when your going to broadcast in 1080p?
*Answer*: If you do it at full rate of 60fps it takes 3 times the bandwidth of what we do today. Right now the infrastructure is not there and nothing is broadcast in 1080p. Also the bandwidth requirements are large and would cost a lot more, which they are not sure customers are willing to pay.

*Randy*: On the TR-50 I noticed it has an HDMI output. 
*Answer*: Dan says yes, and Mark says not sure, but wants to make sure. Lesile says it does, so yes, it does.

*Winner: *
Bill from Memphis, TN. The answer channel 37, it was reserved for radio astronomy use and was never assigned in the United States.

*Another ViP612 Giveaway:*
Question: With analog broadcasts the signal gradually deteriorates as you move away. With Digital broadcasts you either have a signal or you don't. What is this affect called where you either have a signal or you don't?

*New Products:*

*Archos 605 and 705 *- They are now available from our retailers or other retail stores.
To takes advantage of them with our receivers you need to go to www.archos.com and download the Dish Network plugin.
Once you do that they will be able to connect to our ViP612/ViP622/ViP722 receivers.
This is free for Dish Network customers. In order to download you need to get your Dish Network receiver ID from the System Info screen.

*ITV Update:*
Scott Higgins


You Decide 2008 ITV program to answer questions to find out who you line up best with.
Dish Decision 2008 ITV to find out about the candidates and vote in the daily question.
January had 3 special events, X Games mosaic, NBA Free Pass preview, and NHL Center Ice Free Preview.

*More Questions:*

*Robert*: We are planning to upgrade from an older box to a DVR box. Right now we don't have a HDTV but can we get a ViP612 or similar HDTV box now and use it as an SD box until we upgrade to an HDTV later?
*Answer*: Yes, the HD boxes we sell now support SD output as well. They will have composite and/or Svideo output for SD and will have Component and/or HDMI for when you do get HDTV. If you don't subscribe to HD channels there is a $7.00 a month fee for not subscribing to HD channels.

*Bob*: He has a Dish1000 antenna for 110/119/129 and wants to know what kind of signal strength is good/average/bad?
*Answer*: It varies per market. You will begin to lose signal around 12 to 10 on the new strength meter, you should see 20 or above on 110 and 119.

*Charles*: Can I connect my laptop to my 625 DVR?
*Answer*: No, our programmers would not allow us to move content from our boxes to PCs.

*Robert*: Why can't I download any HD recordings to my PocketDish?
*Answer*: The PocketDish does not support HD, they just don't have the hardware in the unit to display it. Their solution is to make sure you record the content from the corresponding SD channel.

*Carl*: Are Dish Network customers need to purchase new equipment or a new TV for the upcoming digital conversion?
*Answer*: No you do not. Dish will take care of the change between them and the broadcaster, you will continue to receive everything you get today.

*Paul*: I have a 750GB Hard Drive attached to my ViP722. I have loaded a large number of Modern Marvels. If there a way I can edit or sort the data on my hard drive?
*Answer*: In the future you'll be able to see your recordings in a folder in you DVR list and when you select it and do the different sort options. This will be in the spring release.
*
Tim and others*: Are we going to support external hard drives on older products?
*Answer*: Right now we do not have any good plans on that. We will think about it but we recommend upgrading to one of our newer products. On the 625 and 721 they only have USB 1.1 which is much slower, which means it takes real time for SD content and it is not fast enough to support playback directly from the USB drive.

*Craig*: On the new Off-Air DVR can you give us a ball park estimate on retail price point.
*Answer*: Still trying to figure out the price-point and hard drive size, thinking smaller drive to bring the price-point down to be more cost effective.

*Question*: Why are my local channels 2 - 68 duplicated on 8200 and up?
*Answer*: Numerous markets use the same channel, i.e. 4. In order to get all these channels we have to have a unique number for all the channels and then map them down for your market.

*Winner:*
Bob. The answer the cliff effect or waterfall effect.

That's it, out of time.

Rebroadcasts on channel 101

Next Month, Charlie Chat March 10, 2008 at 9:00PM EST, channel 101.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Rob, thanks for posting the detailed recap, not much earth-shattering news or anything, but I wouldn't have known that if not for the recap!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have to say... my favorite part of the chat was the caller who forgot he had called!

It was either the 1st or 2nd caller... after they answered his question, you could hear him say "hello".. and the Dish guys said hello... then the guy on the phone says "who is this".. and Mark says "Its Mark"... then the phone guy says "Mark who"... and Mark says "Mark from Dish Network".

That was worth the hour right there!


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Interesting that no additional HD programming questions were fielded. I wonder if they were filtered out? Surely someone must have asked "what's up?".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It's not a programming chat ... it is a tech forum. 

Expectations met.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

James Long said:


> It's not a programming chat ... it is a tech forum.
> 
> Expectations met.


Yeah, yeah ... and CC's are not Infomercials. If your expectations have been met, then Houston's got a problem.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I have to say... my favorite part of the chat was the caller who forgot he had called!
> 
> It was either the 1st or 2nd caller... after they answered his question, you could hear him say "hello".. and the Dish guys said hello... then the guy on the phone says "who is this".. and Mark says "Its Mark"... then the phone guy says "Mark who"... and Mark says "Mark from Dish Network".
> 
> That was worth the hour right there!


Yes, that was hilarious.

And to answer the other post about no info on HD programming, I was a bit surprised myself. I'm guessing they got some questions but didn't want to discuss that on this chat. Perhaps they nothing to mention or perhaps they are waiting for the Charlie Chat next month to announce.


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## Spaz007 (Dec 11, 2007)

After 30min of digital OTA rebate talk.... Do we get a rebate for the time we wasted watching that infomercials.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Sure, everything it cost you will be refunded


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> It's not a programming chat ... it is a tech forum.
> 
> Expectations met.


You know...oh nevermind!:nono2:


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

We were told during the show that if we subscribe to Dish we will be fine after the digital changeover next year. Does this mean that Dish is going to supply a converter box for those subscribers with SDTVs who receive their local channels over the air?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

No.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

samhevener said:


> We were told during the show that if we subscribe to Dish we will be fine after the digital changeover next year. Does this mean that Dish is going to supply a converter box for those subscribers with SDTVs who receive their local channels over the air?


No - it means that Dish will continue to provide your Locals via DBS, and that THEY will take care of working with the broadcasters to make it happen. I wouldn't necessarily think that you will get every subchannel, but you should not lose any SD locals that you already receive either.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the recap Rob.. Lots of questions. Hmm nice to see they are thinking of adding an option for the 908 message. Got a number of posts on that in the support area so that is good news.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

> It's not a programming chat ... it is a tech forum.


My thoughts exactly... on the Scott Higgins iTV updates we get every show.

ClubDISH, which is neither tech nor programming, got a fairly long and detailed segment.

But, for all the time spent discussing HD receivers, to have not even a passing mention of future HD national or local channels...

"You know...oh nevermind!"

The EKB version of the February 2008 Tech Forum was put up overnight. By the time I realized there _was_ going to be a show, it was too late to get the evening off form work. Rob, excellent recap!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I don't expect bad news on a promotional program.
Which probably means there isn't any good news to give on HD. 

I think they did fairly good at taking questions and there were a couple of candid moments I'll remember for a while (the caller who didn't realize he was connected to a live TV show?). I liked the discussion of OTA EPG without subscription on the 211 vs the 811 ... "didn't I tell you to turn that off"?

There were a lot of candid comments about DISH wanting our money ... and I'm sure those who want new HD channels have their response ("give us more HD or you will lose the money we're giving you"). But they addressed the $7 "no HD fee" and other annoyances. They didn't give an answer that those against the fees would like. (The only answer those against the fees want is "we're dropping all fees".) But the questions were taken and addressed.

Even if "why do I have to pay for this" isn't a technical question.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> I don't expect bad news on a promotional program.
> Which probably means there isn't any good news to give on HD.


Now I understand - all this stuff is just a promotional thing - part of "marketing." It now all makes sense.

Oh well, at least the tech forum provides some meaningful tech info.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Did Everyone Miss The Question About Getting Hd To A Second Tv And That Dish Is Working On It???


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

samhevener said:


> We were told during the show that if we subscribe to Dish we will be fine after the digital changeover next year. Does this mean that Dish is going to supply a converter box for those subscribers with SDTVs who receive their local channels over the air?


Let me put it this way: on Feb. 17th 2009 you won't have to buy anything, or turn anything.

Trust me


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> Did Everyone Miss The Question About Getting Hd To A Second Tv And That Dish Is Working On It???


I caught it and it's in the recap. Sounds like a really cool idea, however it sounds like it is a long way out so I'm not even going to get excited about it yet.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

It was a tech forum , but I was shocked when Mark Jackson or Dan Minnick couldn't answer the question about the TR-50, if it could output in HD when on the back it has a HDMI jack, and Dan even said HDMI during the question.???


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

:beatdeadhorse:


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

What your telling me is that I will still be able to receive my local channels ( that I now receive over the air, I don't subscribe to Dish for my locals) over the air on my older SDTV after Feb 17, 2009 without doing or adding anything. You are telling me that Dish will push to see that my local channels are still broadcast in SD over the air.


scooper said:


> No - it means that Dish will continue to provide your Locals via DBS, and that THEY will take care of working with the broadcasters to make it happen. I wouldn't necessarily think that you will get every subchannel, but you should not lose any SD locals that you already receive either.


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## angiecopus (May 18, 2004)

samhevener said:


> What your telling me is that I will still be able to receive my local channels ( that I now receive over the air, I don't subscribe to Dish for my locals) over the air on my older SDTV after Feb 17, 2009 without doing or adding anything. You are telling me that Dish will push to see that my local channels are still broadcast in SD over the air.


Does this mean that Dish network will add our locals for free then? instead of having to pay the money for upgrading. i don't have locals on my receiver, we have an Attenna. You might still have to get that converter box, someone is lying to you. i am so confused.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

samhevener said:


> What your telling me is that I will still be able to receive my local channels ( that I now receive over the air, I don't subscribe to Dish for my locals) over the air on my older SDTV after Feb 17, 2009 without doing or adding anything. You are telling me that Dish will push to see that my local channels are still broadcast in SD over the air.


That is NOT what I said.

IF you get your locals via Dish, then you need not do anything.

In YOUR case (getting locals OTA) - get a converter box, as Dish will NOT be supplying it for you.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

If he has a Dish receiver with an OTA input then he can use the Dish receiver to get those OTA channels without the need of a converter box. He would not have to pay for locals. Of course if he does not pay for locals there will be no channel guide info. A converter box would give him some channel giide information (at least Dish's converter box would).


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## deadrody (Apr 2, 2007)

James Long said:


> I don't expect bad news on a promotional program.
> Which probably means there isn't any good news to give on HD.
> 
> I think they did fairly good at taking questions and there were a couple of candid moments I'll remember for a while (the caller who didn't realize he was connected to a live TV show?). I liked the discussion of OTA EPG without subscription on the 211 vs the 811 ... "didn't I tell you to turn that off"?
> ...


I signed up for DISH about 8 months ago. Almost halfway through the commitment period. If they don't significantly increase HD by the end of that or damn close to it, I will drop DISH without a second's thought. And if I do that, guaranteed a LOT more will have done the same.

They need to @&$# or get off the pot.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

This is just one of the many problems that are going to happen with this rushed changeover to DTV. The tech forum (suppose to be those who know)said " If you subscribe to Dish Network your fine " the forum didn't say if you don't subscribe to our locals at $5.00 a month you will need a converter box. If I were a widow on Social Security that subscribes to dish with locals over the air, I would not do anything based on the information in the tech forum. Then on Feb 17, 2009 (if the 100% changeover is not delayed) I would not be able to view my locals. The 100% changeover is going to be delayed as this is only the beginning of the problems with this rushed changeover. DTV tuners were required to be installed on all TVs sold less than 2 years before the 100% SDTV shutdown. DTV tuners should have been required on TVs sold up to 8 or 9 years before the 100%shutdown. This is just the beginning of the changeover mess, incorrect information from those that should know better. .


scooper said:


> That is NOT what I said.
> 
> IF you get your locals via Dish, then you need not do anything.
> 
> In YOUR case (getting locals OTA) - get a converter box, as Dish will NOT be supplying it for you.


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## angiecopus (May 18, 2004)

samhevener said:


> This is just one of the many problems that are going to happen with this rushed changeover to DTV. The tech forum (suppose to be those who know)said " If you subscribe to Dish Network your fine " the forum didn't say if you don't subscribe to our locals at $5.00 a month you will need a converter box. If I were a widow on Social Security that subscribes to dish with locals over the air, I would not do anything based on the information in the tech forum. Then on Feb 17, 2009 (if the 100% changeover is not delayed) I would not be able to view my locals. The 100% changeover is going to be delayed as this is only the beginning of the problems with this rushed changeover. DTV tuners were required to be installed on all TVs sold less than 2 years before the 100% SDTV shutdown. DTV tuners should have been required on TVs sold up to 8 or 9 years before the 100%shutdown. This is just the beginning of the changeover mess, incorrect information from those that should know better. .


we didn't pay the extra for the locals on our dish network because we can get Cincinatti and Dayton very clear on our attenna, Its like what my brother said this changeover will not happen right way. and it will blow up in the goverments faces.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

angiecopus said:


> we didn't pay the extra for the locals on our dish network because we can get Cincinatti and Dayton very clear on our attenna, Its like what my brother said this changeover will not happen right way. and it will blow up in the goverments faces.


Oh, that won't happen.:sure: 
See Hill Lawmakers Want DTV Czar. From this thread.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

Great news story that Congress wants a DTV csar proves that the 100% changeover is going to be one big mess. I still get a big kick from the statement from the Nation Asso. of Broadcasters that states how many households have DTVs. I guess if you have one DTV and 3 or 4 SDTV's you don't have to worry about a thing. The same as saying those who are connected to cable or satellite have nothing to worry about. What about your TVs that aren't connected to these services? What if you disconnect from cable or satellite before 2-17-09? No coupons for you? I can see it now. If and when we get our coupons with the 60 day time limit to buy the adapter, Walmart and other dealers will be sold out and backordered on the $40.00 adapters but have many of the $150.00 adapters in stock. Then what do you do? The whole rushed changeover plan is going to be a real mess. When the changeover to DTV was first proposed several years ago, the SDTV stations were not to shutdown until 85% of all households had TVs with DTV tuners, not just SDTVs using cable or satellite.


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## angiecopus (May 18, 2004)

and something was mentioned that walmart had the converter boxes, Not at my local walmart they dont. I bet anything that by the time my family gets our coupons that all the converter boxes will be sold out.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm more concerned about the opposite problem ... by the time converter boxes are available the coupons will expire. That issue was brought up in the Tech Forum ... with a 90 day expiration date and E*'s boxes available in May I _hope_ I don't get the coupons I requested before March or April.

Per Wal*Mart's website, one the two boxes they carry is in the store within five miles of my store and is in stock. But I doubt they will sell until people get their coupons (at least not to people who know about the coupons!).


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Yeah , that's MY concern - I REALLY want one of the E* TR40's - as it seems to have the combination of features I want. In fact, I may get it even if I CAN'T use a coupon on it. I'm looking at getting one of the Philco units for my other one. My big bug-a-boo - I want analog passthrough.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

Where can I find information or link on the E* TR-40? I had heard this unit was selling for $40.00 or less, the value of the coupons.


scooper said:


> Yeah , that's MY concern - I REALLY want one of the E* TR40's - as it seems to have the combination of features I want. In fact, I may get it even if I CAN'T use a coupon on it. I'm looking at getting one of the Philco units for my other one. My big bug-a-boo - I want analog passthrough.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The TR-40 is expected to be available in May. We should see more info closer to release.


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