# MRV dropping out almost daily on HR24's...



## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

I have 1 hr21 in the back room and 2 hr24's in the bedroom stacked together. Almost daily when watching tv the hr24's lose connection with each other and I have to reset them. Whats strange is more often than not they both stay connected with the hr21 even though only one of the hr24's has the deca? (white box) hooked to it. It's probably happening even more than I realize since I only watch tv a few hours a day. I've only had this setup for about a month, is this normal for the hr line or an hr24 specific bug? Any solutions? It's really starting to get annoying.


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

bondheli said:


> I have 1 hr21 in the back room and 2 hr24's in the bedroom stacked together. Almost daily when watching tv the hr24's lose connection with each other and I have to reset them. Whats strange is more often than not they both stay connected with the hr21 even though only one of the hr24's has the deca? (white box) hooked to it. It's probably happening even more than I realize since I only watch tv a few hours a day. I've only had this setup for about a month, is this normal for the hr line or an hr24 specific bug? Any solutions? It's really starting to get annoying.


An HR24 should not have a DECA module attached to it. The DECA is built in to the HR24...


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

mobandit said:


> An HR24 should not have a DECA module attached to it. The DECA is built in to the HR24...


I checked, and it is a deca module 1MR0-01. The installer connected it in line with the hr24 and the router because they are in the same room. I believe it is for internet connectivity for apps and on demand. I doubt it's the problem since I almost always stay connected to the hr21 from both hr24s.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

bondheli said:


> I checked, and it is a deca module 1MR0-01. The installer connected it in line with the hr24 and the router because they are in the same room. I believe it is for internet connectivity for apps and on demand. I doubt it's the problem since I almost always stay connected to the hr21 from both hr24s.


When you say "in line" with the HR24, what exactly do you mean. Is the DECA attached to the HR24's coax or ethernet port? If so, that is definitely an incorrect installation, and almost certainly a part of your problem.

The HR24 should have a coax straight from a splitter (or perhaps the power inserter). Nothing should be connected to the HR24's ethernet port.

The DECA should be connected with input from the splitter. The output (pigtail) coax should be connected to a DECA power inserter. The output ethernet should be connected to your router.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

If it is set up the way DogLover explains, go into the Network Setup and let us know what the IP addresses are of all 3 of your receivers.

- Merg


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Nothing is connected to the hr24's ethernet ports. The deca box is connected to the coax cable.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

bondheli said:


> Nothing is connected to the hr24's ethernet ports. The deca box is connected to the coax cable.


Is there an ethernet cable coming out of the DECA, and if so, where is this ethernet cable hooked up to?


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

barryb said:


> Is there an ethernet cable coming out of the DECA, and if so, where is this ethernet cable hooked up to?


The ethernet cable is hooked from the deca to the router.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bondheli said:


> The ethernet cable is hooked from the deca to the router.


...how about the other end of the Ethernet cable?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Is this what it looks like out of your HR24?

HR24 --> DECA --> central location

Or is it more like


```
HR24 --> splitter --> central location
             |
             ↓
POWER -->  DECA --> Home Network
```


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> Is this what it looks like out of your HR24?
> 
> HR24 --> DECA --> central location
> 
> ...


I believe it is the second one, here are a few pictures:

My setup: 2 HR24's and a Belkin UPS









Here you can see my twin esata WD20EVDS 2TB Hard drives:









And here is the deca box hooked up to the incoming cable along with my master HR24 through a splitter. The eithernet goes from the deca box to a router:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

This looks correct .. going back to the central location, there should be another splitter. Is it also a green-label splitter? Are the open ports on the splitter at the central location terminated or empty?


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> This looks correct .. going back to the central location, there should be another splitter. Is it also a green-label splitter? Are the open ports on the splitter at the central location terminated or empty?


By central location do you mean the dish? The HR21 in the back room has a deca box as well but there is no splitter inside. Outside there is a green labeled 1 into 4 splitter with 3 cables going to the dvrs and 1 caped connection.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

How about trying the front panel test on the 24. . . press right arrow / guide and post the two pages of coax results.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bondheli said:


> By central location do you mean the dish? The HR21 in the back room has a deca box as well but there is no splitter inside. Outside there is a green labeled 1 into 4 splitter with 3 cables going to the dvrs and 1 caped connection.


Ah, so you have a SWiM-LNB that feeds the 4-way splitter .. Good that the 4-way is green and that part looks good. Running the test (as dennisj00 asked) would be helpful now.

As for the HR21 .. It does need a DECA attached as you described .. So that is correct:

HR21 -> DECA -> 4-way splitter outside

With the Ethernet of the DECA attached to the Ethernet port on the HR21. That all sounds like it is done correctly.


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Info:
Node IDS/ Friendly Names/ Mac Add/ PHY Levels
0/_____ Master HR24/_____ #/_____ 38
1/_____ Node-###/_____ #/_____ 34
2/_____ Slave HR24/_____ #/_____ N/A
3/_____ Node-###/_____ #/_____ 21

Dropped session count is 0


Seems to keep happening when I am playing a show from the slave hr24 on the master hr24 but I haven't been watching enough tv to exclude it from happening during other situations as well. Seems pretty regular now as it has happened for at least the last 3 days in a row, including twice yesterday.


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

No one else has this issue?


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

bondheli said:


> No one else has this issue?


It appears you may be one of the few...which lends itself to a possible faulty unit...


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

bondheli said:


> No one else has this issue?


Have you tried a reset of the SWiM and DECA. Pull the power plug on all receivers. Pull the power plug on the SWiM and DECA PI adapters. Plug in the SWiM PI and wait two to threee minutes. Plug in the DECA PI. Once this is done, power up each reciever, waiting until the previous one is fully booted before going to the next one. This usually clears up weird problems like you are experincing. If this doesn't work , you may have a bad router or bad DVR.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

azarby said:


> Have you tried a reset of the SWiM and DECA. Pull the power plug on all receivers. Pull the power plug on the SWiM and DECA PI adapters. Plug in the SWiM PI and wait two to threee minutes. Plug in the DECA PI. Once this is done, power up each reciever, waiting until the previous one is fully booted before going to the next one. This usually clears up weird problems like you are experincing. If this doesn't work , you may have a bad router or bad DVR.


Just to add to that, if you have a router in the mix, make that is the first thing that you reset and power back on once you have everything unplugged.

- Merg


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bondheli said:


> Info:
> Node IDS/ Friendly Names/ Mac Add/ PHY Levels
> 0/_____ Master HR24/_____ #/_____ 38
> 1/_____ Node-###/_____ #/_____ 34
> ...


By the way...nice equipment/setup.

Your test results appear well in the tolerance ranges as other have been noting.

It also appears that you have the correction connections.

Curious...do your symptoms happen without using the eSata drives - running off of the internal drives only....?


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

bondheli said:


> Nothing is connected to the hr24's ethernet ports. The deca box is connected to the coax cable.


The internet deca should be plugged into a power inserter on the side with the ethernet cable. Can not see this on your photo. Where does the white cable go on that side of the deca? Where is your swim power inserter?

Should be lnb, 
Band stop filter If non green label lnb,
4 way splitter 
then on port one of the 4way a *swim power inserter*,

3 cables one to each unit, 
the one cable split with the 2 way splitter one to unit and one end to deca then power inserter for the deca. can see a purple power inserter in photo
one cable straight to hr24,
one cable to deca then directly to hr21

You should have 2 power inserters.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

my1423 said:


> The internet deca should be plugged into a power inserter on the side with the ethernet cable. Can not see this on your photo. Where does the white cable go on that side of the deca? Where is your swim power inserter?
> 
> Should be lnb,
> Band stop filter,
> ...


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
LNB/filter sure make sense, but after that it's a bit fuzzy.
The SWiM PI can be mounted before the splitter, or after it.
The same leg that might have the SWiM PI, could also have the DECA & PI for the router.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Sorry was editing while you were posting. 
Trying to push it should be 2 power inserters and possible bandstop filter. This could be causing the issue. 
Saw an install with 1 deca power supply feeding both swim and deca. The power supply kept tripping out and the units were powering the swim. The setup kept loosing sat signal for a few seconds and all networking would end till a reboot.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

my1423 said:


> Sorry was editing while you were posting.
> Trying to push it should be 2 power inserters and possible bandstop filter. This could be causing the issue.
> Saw an install with 1 deca power supply feeding both swim and deca. The power supply kept tripping out and the units were powering the swim. The setup kept loosing sat signal for a few seconds and all networking would end till a reboot.


 Maybe you could explain this a bit more?
I can't see how: 1 DECA power supply could feed both a SWiM & a DECA.
The DECA can only be powered from the coax pigtail and the DECA has a DC block to keep DC from the DECA input.
The SWiM PI works fine with the DECA signal running through it also. This is how I've been using it for almost a year.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

This is what the installer did wrong to do that on my friends setup. 

Deca power supply to,
2 way splitter,
from splitter one end to deca,
one end to port one on 8 way splitter to power lnb.

That setup would work for 15 - 45 minutes then loose enough sat to pixilate, trip the power supply, then reset. You had to be watching tv to catch the sudden picture freeze, then it would continue as if nothing were wrong but this would trip out the deca and cause a loss of mrv till a reboot.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

my1423 said:


> This is what the installer did wrong to do that on my friends setup.
> 
> Deca power supply to,
> 2 way splitter,
> ...


!rolling
"What an idiot". 
The DECA power supply simply doesn't have enough power to drive the SWiM. :nono:
While this may not be the stupidest installer out there, he would come close, and would only be matched by the nitwits that think the SAT feeds to a SWiM-16 must have bandstop filters. :nono:
Where did these fools think they could install a DECA upgrade? :eek2:


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

No the idiot was the guys boss that insisted it was the right way to do it and that it was not what was causing the problem. I went round and round with the guy. 
The installer was just doing what he was told. What a mess. You would be surprised at how little the installers know in my area. Half of the ones i have met have 2 months experience. 

I went through 5 until i got one that knew enough and would listen to me to get my install.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

my1423 said:


> No the idiot was the guys boss that insisted it was the right way to do it and that it was not what was causing the problem. I went round and round with the guy.
> The installer was just doing what he was told. What a mess. You would be surprised at how little the installers know in my area. Half of the ones i have met have 2 months experience.
> 
> I went through 5 until i got one that knew enough and would listen to me to get my install.


That was the same problem about the use of bandstop filters, "the supervisor".
EVERYONE was to be trained & certified before going out on a DECA install.
The training is available online and frankly this is no excuse to not look at it.
I'm not going to blame the "lowly installer", as this looks like the install company are the ones that are to blame for this.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> That was the same problem about the use of bandstop filters, "the supervisor".
> EVERYONE was to be trained & certified before going out on a DECA install.
> The training is available online and frankly this is no excuse to not look at it.
> I'm not going to blame the "lowly installer", as this looks like the install company are the ones that are to blame for this.


There's enough parts to it to warrant some form of internal "certification" for the training...haphazard and piecemeal, let alone remedial doesn't do the trick. We've seen some of each of those versions unfortunately.

For the ones properly trained, the installs seem to go quite well. The others....don't.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

company line...there is no training issue and all techs have passed tests that then allow them to be sent to these jobs.
bullshiit.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> company line...there is no training issue and all techs have passed tests that then allow them to be sent to these jobs.
> bullshiit.


"It seems" a few bosses are taking the verification tests for their workers and the workers aren't getting sh... for training.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

sounds plausible to me


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "It seems" a few bosses are taking the verification tests for their workers and the workers aren't getting sh... for training.





David MacLeod said:


> sounds plausible to me


No, more like:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

well I guess we now have ....wait for it... confirmation :lol:


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

Hmmm training issues with DECA, wasn't the one of the reasons the ethernet solution was dropped was because it would be too hard to teach the installers how to plug in a cat 5 cable?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

leww37334 said:


> Hmmm training issues with DECA, wasn't the one of the reasons the ethernet solution was dropped was because it would be too hard to teach the installers how to plug in a cat 5 cable?


If you think there are problems with training and deca implementation, consider the complexities of home networks (which is a *lot* more than simply plugging a cable in), and you'll understand why DECA is touted over home networking via internet.

Let's not obfuscate. DECA installs are far simpler than ethernet. The fact that some installers (perhaps many, in some areas) aren't properly trained in no way ameliorates the nightmare that ethernet installs would be.

D* made the right choice. Implementation is a different issue entirely.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

not just ease of use but also security. do you want to give your router password out to a tech?


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## frozenpenguin (Jan 19, 2004)

bondheli said:


> I have 1 hr21 in the back room and 2 hr24's in the bedroom stacked together. Almost daily when watching tv the hr24's lose connection with each other and I have to reset them. Whats strange is more often than not they both stay connected with the hr21 even though only one of the hr24's has the deca? (white box) hooked to it. It's probably happening even more than I realize since I only watch tv a few hours a day. I've only had this setup for about a month, is this normal for the hr line or an hr24 specific bug? Any solutions? It's really starting to get annoying.


I am having the exact same issue with my HR24. It drops off MRV every day or so. My other receivers (HR20-700 & HR21-700) stay on fine. My system is wired correctly. Keep having to reset the HR24 and then it comes back up and connects fine. I may try a full network power-down/reset tomorrow if this keeps up. Very annoying.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

frozenpenguin said:


> I am having the exact same issue with my HR24. It drops off MRV every day or so. My other receivers (HR20-700 & HR21-700) stay on fine. My system is wired correctly. Keep having to reset the HR24 and then it comes back up and connects fine. I may try a full network power-down/reset tomorrow if this keeps up. Very annoying.


_Mine_ (and I suspect many others') don't ever drop MRV, and I have an 'unsupported' hybrid network. _Something_ isn't set up right.

Have you described somewhere _exactly_ how your system is wired, and what your DECA readings are?


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## frozenpenguin (Jan 19, 2004)

dwcolvin said:


> _Mine_ (and I suspect many others') don't ever drop MRV, and I have an 'unsupported' hybrid network. _Something_ isn't set up right.
> 
> Have you described somewhere _exactly_ how your system is wired, and what your DECA readings are?


Deca readings range from 242-249. Coax plugged directly into HR24, nothing into its network jack, Deca units on the HR20 & HR21, Deca unit connected to my router with power adapter. PI inserted on one of my coax lines (After the 8-way green label SWiM switch).

Does that sound right?


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

frozenpenguin said:


> Deca readings range from 242-249. Coax plugged directly into HR24, nothing into its network jack, Deca units on the HR20 & HR21, Deca unit connected to my router with power adapter. PI inserted on one of my coax lines (After the 8-way green label SWiM switch).
> 
> Does that sound right?


Have you tried the SWiM/DECA rest procedure I posted earlier in this thread. It is worth the try.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

frozenpenguin said:


> I am having the exact same issue with my HR24. It drops off MRV every day or so. My other receivers (HR20-700 & HR21-700) stay on fine. My system is wired correctly. Keep having to reset the HR24 and then it comes back up and connects fine. I may try a full network power-down/reset tomorrow if this keeps up. Very annoying.





frozenpenguin said:


> Deca readings range from 242-249. Coax plugged directly into HR24, nothing into its network jack, Deca units on the HR20 & HR21, Deca unit connected to my router with power adapter. PI inserted on one of my coax lines (After the 8-way green label SWiM switch).
> 
> Does that sound right?


First: your reading are good/great.
You're not the only one that has this problem [though I'm not one of them].
I wouldn't waste my time resetting the SWiM, since it has nothing to do with the DECA network. If I had SAT signal issues, then yes resetting the SWiM would be a good idea, but SWiM & DECA have zero interactivity.
I would reset my router first [pulling the power cord for a couple of mins should do this].
Next would be to pull the power cords on the receivers [or pull all the power cords while you're doing the router] and then let them boot up one at a time before moving to the next.
See how long this works, or doesn't.
Next would be to remove the ethernet cable from the DECA to router and reboot all the receivers. This will drop the internet and cause each receiver to pull its own IP address.
See if this keeps them all showing the playlist and updating them. Give this a couple of days to know if their all playing nice.
If so, then this might suggest there is a router problem, since it works without the router, BUT from another poster that changed their router, it didn't resolve the problem.
"THERE MAY BE" a problem with a few HR24s that is causing this. The more data/testing/users that help by running through the steps above, "we hope" to narrow down what this is.


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## frozenpenguin (Jan 19, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> First: your reading are good/great.
> You're not the only one that has this problem [though I'm not one of them].
> I wouldn't waste my time resetting the SWiM, since it has nothing to do with the DECA network. If I had SAT signal issues, then yes resetting the SWiM would be a good idea, but SWiM & DECA have zero interactivity.
> I would reset my router first [pulling the power cord for a couple of mins should do this].
> ...


I just did a full system power off/on procedure (including my router and all DTV equipment). System is working now, but for how long - who knows?

If problem persists, I'll try pulling the router cable off and see if that helps.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

frozenpenguin said:


> IIf problem persists, I'll try pulling the router cable off and see if that helps.


You _can't_ disconnect the DECA from the router. Each DECA-attached DirecTV receiver will periodically (interval determined by the router) renew its IP address via DHCP... it won't like it if it can't find the router. The router and DECA/Power Supply must remain connected and powered on (which is why installers are told to plug the DECA PS directly into an outlet, and not a power strip that might be turned off).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> You _can't_ disconnect the DECA from the router. Each DECA-attached DirecTV receiver will periodically (interval determined by the router) renew its IP address via DHCP... it won't like it if it can't find the router. The router and DECA/Power Supply must remain connected and powered on (which is why installers are told to plug the DECA PS directly into an outlet, and not a power strip that might be turned off).



Since this is a troubleshooting step, and the receivers will need to be rebooted to assign their own IP addresses, WT.. are you trying to say?
This needs to be done to help isolate the problem/source.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Since this is a troubleshooting step, and the receivers will need to be rebooted to assign their own IP addresses, WT.. are you trying to say?
> This needs to be done to help isolate the problem/source.


He didn't say _anything_ about rebooting the receivers after disconnecting from the router. That obviously would work, as the receivers would assign their own IP addresses (which will NOT work if the router/DECA is reconnected without another reboot (or, at least, Network Setup)


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Anybody want to bet that most of the people who are having MRV / DECA / D*oD / internet connection problems are not powering their routers, switches and DECA modules from a UPS? Receivers and DVR's too, but they can pull a valid IP after a "power flicker" if the rest of the network is still up.

Just my opinion based on experience. YMMV.


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## frozenpenguin (Jan 19, 2004)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Anybody want to bet that most of the people who are having MRV / DECA / D*oD / internet connection problems are not powering their routers, switches and DECA modules from a UPS? Receivers and DVR's too, but they can pull a valid IP after a "power flicker" if the rest of the network is still up.
> 
> Just my opinion based on experience. YMMV.


I'll bet you because I have EVERYTHING hooked into UPS's. All receivers, PI, Deca, etc... Plus, power doesn't really flicker here anyway.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

frozenpenguin said:


> I'll bet you because I have EVERYTHING hooked into UPS's. All receivers, PI, Deca, etc... Plus, power doesn't really flicker here anyway.


I guess that makes you a majority of one. If your power never flickers, why do you need a UPS?


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## frozenpenguin (Jan 19, 2004)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I guess that makes you a majority of one. If your power never flickers, why do you need a UPS?


Better safe than sorry. Plus I got a bunch of UPSs for cheap a while ago.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'll get into this from the "I have no issues" and don't have the router or receivers on UPS either.


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Update on my issues:
One of my 2tb hard drives got the reset and attempting to fix errors screen for 2 days. After it finished it still wouldn't work, so I took it out wiped the drive and reinstalled it in the enclosure. Got the same fixing errors screen for another 2 days then it still didn't work. (Could be the enclosure since the drive worked fine in the computer)...?

So I have been running one of my HR24's on the internal hard drive for several days now and I am still experiencing the HR24's dropping out of the network.

As to some of the other posts, the deca box is powered from a wall wart hooked to the coax. The wall wart is plugged in to the UPS as well.

I'm going to call up Directv this week and have them come back out because this is getting ridiculous. This plus screwing up our auto billing for the last 3 months (requiring a 20 minute call each time), and the lack of fox and nbc in hd has got me really regretting my decision to commit to Directv for another 2 years. :nono2:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bondheli said:


> Update on my issues:
> One of my 2tb hard drives got the reset and attempting to fix errors screen for 2 days. After it finished it still wouldn't work, so I took it out wiped the drive and reinstalled it in the enclosure. Got the same fixing errors screen for another 2 days then it still didn't work. (Could be the enclosure since the drive worked fine in the computer)...?
> 
> So I have been running one of my HR24's on the internal hard drive for several days now and I am still experiencing the HR24's dropping out of the network.
> ...


Agreed calling them out is the best solution.

You definitely have something else going on there beyond any HR24 problem...the symptoms suggest a wider setup or connection problem.


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