# You gotta give credit when it's due...



## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

I have to give DTV credit for releasing software revs in a timely manner to resolve problems... especially problems their software gave us in the first place.

I was with Dish for 8+ years and they were slower than a gov't committee to release software updates and when they did and gave us new problems they took even longer to release software revs.

DTV has their share of software anomalies(?) but is much more responsive to user feedback and seems quick to resolve the problems with a software spool in a timely manner.

Of course, a valuable tool for DTV is the feedback on this forum and as long as we are willing to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem watching TV should be good.

So, DTV, I say thanks for not treating your customers like paying beta testers and trying to resolve problems quickly.

My first year and a half with DTV has been good and I'm looking forward to many more.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> I was with Dish for 8+ years and they were slower than a gov't committee to release software updates and when they did and gave us new problems they took even longer to release software revs.


I had the Dish PVR510 for 2 1/2 years. Never had a problem with it. I don't think it even had a reset button (or software option) - probably because it didn't need it. If it got any updates I didn't even know about it.

Maybe that's why I'm so critical of the R15's numerous flaws. To me, it's like night and day between Dish and D*. When my commitment's up, I certainly feel that both Dish and cable have earned a good look. I just wish I had FIOS here.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

qwerty said:


> I had the Dish PVR510 for 2 1/2 years. Never had a problem with it. I don't think it even had a reset button (or software option) - probably because it didn't need it. If it got any updates I didn't even know about it.


Agreed, the Dish 5xx hardware platform was as solid as a cinder block but for those Dish customers who had 721s and 9xxs the story was a lot different. It was a genuine privelage to spend $1000 on two 721s to experience only brief periods where they actually performed as Dish promised they would before they cashed my check.

Way before Dish PVR/DVR platforms Dish was the king of "we giveth problems but don't taketh them away"... if you'd been a Dish customer back in the 5000 "black screen of death days" you'd know what I was talking about.

I'm just giving props to DTV for more timely attempts to resolve problems than Dish and their willingness to use this forum for the (sometimes) valuable feedback it can offer.

qwerty,

My pals in the area tell me that Dish is still enamored with their new business model of "the customer exists for the convenience of the company" which is why I left after 8+ years.

Like you, when my commitment is up I'll take a look around but what I see now and for the last year and a half DirecTV at least gives me the illusion that they exist for the convenience of their customer and are giving me a dollar's worth for a dollar. That's a great deal to me.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, I had a bad experience with their customer support too. After two and a half years I called to see if they were willing to throw me a bone to keep me as a customer, after all, my cell phone company gives me a new phone every two years. Well, they wouldn't do anything, so I moved to D*. A couple weeks later, Dish calls and, now they're willing to deal. When I told them it was too late they were actually angry!
But, I think customer support is hit and miss. I've seen many stories posted here of bad D* customer service too. Like the guy that received 3 refurb R15 replacements that were bad and they still refused to send him a new one. After repeated calls and arguements, he finally got the new one. I think a lot of it depends on the CSR and their mood at the time of the call.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

qwerty said:


> Well, I had a bad experience with their customer support too. After two and a half years I called to see if they were willing to throw me a bone to keep me as a customer, after all, my cell phone company gives me a new phone every two years. Well, they wouldn't do anything, so I moved to D*. A couple weeks later, Dish calls and, now they're willing to deal. When I told them it was too late they were actually angry!
> But, I think customer support is hit and miss. I've seen many stories posted here of bad D* customer service too. Like the guy that received 3 refurb R15 replacements that were bad and they still refused to send him a new one. After repeated calls and arguments, he finally got the new one. I think a lot of it depends on the CSR and their mood at the time of the call.


I'd have appreciated any comments your had regarding my original post but it seems you didn't read my post. I didn't intend this thread to be a Dish vs DTV or a bash the R15 thread.

I'm not, and was not, speaking to CSR problems with either company. CSR roulette seems to be a unfortunate reality with every company, regardless of industry, that offers phone customer service.

I was speaking to the apparent lack of technical skill and adequate beta testing exhibited by Dish programmers. I was speaking to the the steadfast refusal of Dish to acknowledge or recognize that a problem existed often waiting 6 months to even begin to look into the problem. I am talking about selling hardware that has specific features and performance printed on the box that are NEVER enabled or work properly.

Both my R15s on their worst days since the beginning of my DTV commitment a year and a half ago were better than the best days of either of my Dish 721s. My two R15s cost me zip, zero, nada while my two Dish 721s cost me $1000.

My worst experience with DTV CSRs, and there have been a couple frustrating moments, were smoother than my better experience with Dish CSRs.

The advance tech support at both Dish and DTV seem about equal. Both have the knowledge and expertise we should experience at the entry level of tech support.

DTV's efforts to resolve software anomalies are usually realized in weeks and with this 1192/1196 spool less than a week. With Dish it often took months for them to admit to the problem and then months for a software spool that didn't correct it.

I vote with my wallet and after 8+ years with Dish, DTV has my business and so far they are superior to Dish in EVERY way.

Back to the point... thanks DTV for more timely responses to software problems than seems to be the industry standard and thanks for monitoring this forum and considering our criticisms and complaints.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

subeluvr said:


> I'd have appreciated any comments your had regarding my original post but it seems you didn't read my post. I didn't intend this thread to be a Dish vs DTV or a bash the R15 thread.


Quite obviously I did read your original post. Even though you say you didn't want it to be a comparison, you kind of opened the door when you said:



subeluvr said:


> I was with Dish for 8+ years and they were slower than a gov't committee to release software updates and when they did and gave us new problems they took even longer to release software revs.


And I replied with my Dish experience.



subeluvr said:


> I was speaking to the apparent lack of technical skill and adequate beta testing exhibited by Dish programmers. I was speaking to the the steadfast refusal of Dish to acknowledge or recognize that a problem existed often waiting 6 months to even begin to look into the problem. I am talking about selling hardware that has specific features and performance printed on the box that are NEVER enabled or work properly.


I feel a lot of those sentiments can also be applied to the R15. If you do a search, you can find a thread from about a year and a half ago where the President & CEO Chase Carey said that all the problems with the R15 had been fixed. Other than updates, I don't think you'll find anywhere that D* officially acknowledged any problems with the R15, of course, I may be wrong. That's just my take.



subeluvr said:


> Back to the point... thanks DTV for more timely responses to software problems than seems to be the industry standard and thanks for monitoring this forum and considering our criticisms and complaints.


If you wanted this thread to only be for praise, maybe you should have made it clear that dissenting views are unwelcome. That is the nature of on-line discussion forums. People frequently disagree.


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Qwerty,

I was specifically discussing software problems and my observation of DTV's more timely response to correcting them than my 8+ years of experience with Dish.

There is nowhere in my original post that I mention, let alone discuss, either Dish or DTV hardware other then the software and the difference between DTV's response time and that of Dish when resolving software problems

You remark "if you wanted this thread to only be for praise, maybe you should have made it clear that dissenting views are unwelcome" is rather arrogant and condescending.

I welcome dissenting views regarding anything I post or say but in the interest of continuity I expect those remarks to be *on point* regarding what I post or say.

If you want to discuss Dish PVR/DVR versus DTV DVRs or Dish customer service versus DTV customer service then start a thread. There's plenty of bandwidth available on the forum.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

You did discuss Dish's handling of updates. I responded that my unit was solid and if it got updates I didn't even know about it. I don't think I was off topic. Discussion take directions. That's why they call them threads. If you didn't want the discussion to go that way you shouldn't have opened the door.
I certainly got the impression from post #5 that my dissenting opinions were unwanted. If you feel its arrogant and condescending to say so...well, you're entitled to your opinion.


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## Duffycoug (Apr 16, 2007)

qwerty said:


> I had the Dish PVR510 for 2 1/2 years. Never had a problem with it. I don't think it even had a reset button (or software option) - probably because it didn't need it. If it got any updates I didn't even know about it.
> 
> Maybe that's why I'm so critical of the R15's numerous flaws. To me, it's like night and day between Dish and D*. When my commitment's up, I certainly feel that both Dish and cable have earned a good look. I just wish I had FIOS here.


I have Fios here and it sucks...I go to my neighbors and there is nothing but problems.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

subeluvr said:


> Both my R15s on their worst days since the beginning of my DTV commitment a year and a half ago were better than the best days of either of my Dish 721s. My two R15s cost me zip, zero, nada while my two Dish 721s cost me $1000.
> 
> My worst experience with DTV CSRs, and there have been a couple frustrating moments, were smoother than my better experience with Dish CSRs.
> 
> I vote with my wallet and after 8+ years with Dish, DTV has my business and so far they are superior to Dish in EVERY way.


I must admit, I don't know diddley about TiVo's or DISH network hardware since I've never had any in my home. Is the Dish 721 that "dual room" DVR that they are pushing nowadays?

I need to do my homework. When my 2 year (R15 generated) programming commitment with DirecTV ends in the fall of 2009 I will probably be ready to make the leap to HDTV. And like many, many consumers the outfit with the best hardware/programming deal will get my business. I really hope it's DirecTV, since I've been a loyal customer for over 7 years, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, the customer is now considered a "convenience" for the DBS provider which is very sad. Maybe I'll just buy a HD TiVo and risk my neck putting up an outdoor antenna!


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

ThomasM said:


> Is the Dish 721 that "dual room" DVR that they are pushing nowadays?


The Dish 721 was their first SD two tuner PVR (DVR). It was released with great hoopla and promised NBR and internet access. It was the Dish receiver that introduced the term "paying beta tester" to the vocabulary of Dish 721 owners. It was a great idea, poorly executed, and even more poorly supported.

The really bad news was that the Dish 721 arrived in the marketplace before the "lease" business model so the 721's victims got to pay $500 for the privilege of its and Dish's abuse.

The current two room, two tuner SD DVR that Dish offers is the 625. It looks like a black 721 and retains many of the anomalies that devilishly possessed the 721.

If you do consider Dish and the 625 appeals to you be aware and read the fine print on the 625. IIRC, that the only way to run that second TV is over 75 ohm coax. No S-VHS, no component or composite or Dolby digital. That stuff is reserved for only the main TV.

BTW, Dish charges a DVR fee for *each and every DVR box in the house*, not one DVR fee for the entire account as DTV does.

The way I see it, I'll continue with a programming provider until they unmistakably show me that they no longer want my business as Dish did and that's why I'm with DTV... and as I've stated, DTV is giving me a dollar's worth for a dollar with more timely problem resolution than I ever experienced in over 8 years with Dish.

YMMV.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> I must admit, I don't know diddley about TiVo's or DISH network hardware since I've never had any in my home. Is the Dish 721 that "dual room" DVR that they are pushing nowadays?
> 
> I need to do my homework. When my 2 year (R15 generated) programming commitment with DirecTV ends in the fall of 2009 I will probably be ready to make the leap to HDTV. And like many, many consumers the outfit with the best hardware/programming deal will get my business. I really hope it's DirecTV, since I've been a loyal customer for over 7 years, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, the customer is now considered a "convenience" for the DBS provider which is very sad. Maybe I'll just buy a HD TiVo and risk my neck putting up an outdoor antenna!


Not a good idea as Tivo charges a $13 a month fee for their stand alone.:eek2:

Plus that's the best position to negotiate when you don't have a contract!.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> Not a good idea as Tivo charges a $13 a month fee for their stand alone.:eek2:
> 
> Plus that's the best position to negotiate when you don't have a contract!.


I saw that while visiting the local Best Buy the other day. People complain about DirecTV and their "lease/DVR" fees, but nobody seems to complain about BUYING a DVR and then paying a fee to keep it working picking up FREE over-the-air channels?  Plus, if it breaks, you are on your own getting it fixed/replaced.

And their HD version is 300 bucks!!


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> I saw that while visiting the local Best Buy the other day. People complain about DirecTV and their "lease/DVR" fees, but nobody seems to complain about BUYING a DVR and then paying a fee to keep it working picking up FREE over-the-air channels?  Plus, if it breaks, you are on your own getting it fixed/replaced.
> 
> And their HD version is 300 bucks!!


I need you to explain something to me if you would please.

Why should DirecTV set up their receivers(with an ATSC tuner) so it will work without
the subscriber not paying a fee?.After all it is DirecTV's receiver and they are a subscription service.

When I hear people complaining about the DVR fee which with DirecTV is only one.I just tell them about Dish's DVR fee which can be more than one.

Don't know which way your going here as when you lease your receiver with DirecTV they replace it just for S&H.As for owning it I always have to fix something I own,unless I put insurance coverage on it.

I also think it's comical when I hear people complaining about a $300. upfront lease fee,right after they tell me they just bought an HDTV for $4000.

Like I told the uphostery man the other day when he told me how rough he had it.
It's hard to plead poverty,when you drive a Cadillac!.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> I need you to explain something to me if you would please.
> 
> When I hear people complaining about the DVR fee which with DirecTV is only one.I just tell them about Dish's DVR fee which can be more than one.


You weren't paying attention when you read my message. It was NOT complaining about DirecTV, but TiVo which charges $300 for an HD DVR and then charges a monthly fee all to get over-the-air (free) channels.

I get 2 DVR's (SD but so what?), all my locals and lots of other channels for less than $50/month. I think that's a value among today's TV options.

Plus as I type this I get HBO/Cinemax for free....and so do all DirecTV customers! Oops! I forgot to check the schedule and load up my TO DO list before it all ends on Sunday night!


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> You weren't paying attention when you read my message. It was NOT complaining about DirecTV, but TiVo which charges $300 for an HD DVR and then charges a monthly fee all to get over-the-air (free) channels.
> 
> I get 2 DVR's (SD but so what?), all my locals and lots of other channels for less than $50/month. I think that's a value among today's TV options.
> 
> Plus as I type this I get HBO/Cinemax for free....and so do all DirecTV customers! Oops! I forgot to check the schedule and load up my TO DO list before it all ends on Sunday night!


OK.Sorry.Thanks for the clarification.


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