# R15 hardware



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Under a different thread we started getting a little off topic in discussing the hardware platform of the R15 compared to DTV's previous DVRs.

In particular:


chrishiatt1973 said:


> yes they skimped, when oilder recievers have more ram and faster processor than current recievers, they are skimping


and


chrishiatt1973 said:


> specifaclly the sony, phillips and samsung branded recievers ... do the research as i did, i read claims they was faster than current recievers from other message boards, then looked at their sites(makers) then called for specs and BINGO proof


I had looked into the R15 and there has been other posts detailing some of the R15 specs so I thought this may be worthy of a discussion under it's own topic.

The R15 includes:

The STi5528 Chipset from STMicroelectronics. This includes a ST20 166MHz MPEG2 decoder and a ST40 200MHz application processor (for OS and scheduling and such).
32kB EEPROM
8MB FlashMemory
64MB DDRAM
160GB IDE HD
V.90 Modem
2 USB 2.0 ports
Other Receiver/Audio chips

Those are facts provided in a link ferrg provide which is here.
For more info on the STi5528 you can check here.

I'll do some searching on the other DVRs that chrishiatt1973 mentioned. If anyone has info regarding these systems (I guess not the DTV branded or Hughes versions) feel free to share.

Also, I attempted to find the same info regarding the R15-300 manufactured by Phillips without any luck. Can someone with a Phillips R15 please note the FCC ID # on it and post the info here?

Thanks.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

It's definitely RAM-driven, and these have twice the RAM as the DTiVo and four times the RAM as the Series 1 TiVo.

It must boot a hell of alot faster than a TiVo, though, as I assume the OS/app are in flash?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It does do a Clear and Delete a lot faster .... 

When ever I have done it, it starts up in less then a minute.
VS the good 5 or so that my R10's take.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Under a different thread we started getting a little off topic in discussing the hardware platform of the R15 compared to DTV's previous DVRs.
> 
> In particular:
> and
> ...


although this is a computer, and does not have to do as much as a regular pc, but a 166mhz processor is pathetcic, and 64mb of ram has no upward possibilities


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It does do a Clear and Delete a lot faster ....
> 
> When ever I have done it, it starts up in less then a minute.
> VS the good 5 or so that my R10's take.


if you mean clear and delet settings, how it do it that fast, mine takes 1 hour about


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> although this is a computer, and does not have to do as much as a regular pc, but a 166mhz processor is pathetcic, and 64mb of ram has no upward possibilities


No, it's a 200MHz general-purpose CPU. And that's RISC, so it bears no relationship to Pentium-like processors. Again, going back to Series 1 DTiVo: a 66 MHz PowerPC CPU.

A DVR doesn't need to do anything processor-intensive. At all. The only thing close is MPEG decoding, and that's done on a separate chip (or a separate part of the chip, as in this case). Nobody outside of PC-based DVRs (Myth, etc.) do software MPEG decoding.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> if you mean clear and delet settings, how it do it that fast, mine takes 1 hour about


Odd... A full reset of the system (The last option)..

Took about 5 minutes the last time I ran it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> A DVR doesn't need to do anything processor-intensive. At all. The only thing close is MPEG decoding, and that's done on a separate chip (or a separate part of the chip, as in this case). Nobody outside of PC-based DVRs (Myth, etc.) do software MPEG decoding.


So you don't think the freezing is a speed issue? I thought it might benifit from a faster CPU, but it could be the software. I thought the software is trying to do too much and was bottlenecking at the CPU.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> So you don't think the freezing is a speed issue? I thought it might benifit from a faster CPU, but it could be the software. I thought the software is trying to do too much and was bottlenecking at the CPU.


I think the "it doesn't respond for 10 minutes then is fine" issue is a combination of processor power and inefficient coding/design, but I think the real "freeze and never comes back" is more coding.

Tivos have well know problems when working with the Season Passes. Make a change and the "this may take minutes" bubble appears. It's understandable that at times these units have a chunk of work to do to reorder SPs/SLs but with a multitasking OS that should be something sent to a background (lower priority) task and the foreground returns to respond to the user.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> So you don't think the freezing is a speed issue? I thought it might benifit from a faster CPU, but it could be the software. I thought the software is trying to do too much and was bottlenecking at the CPU.


Well, that's a much more complicated question, and we don't have enough information to answer it. We don't even know what OS it runs. It's quite possible that a faster CPU could compensate for poor programming practices.

But it doesn't change the fact that I still have a DSR6000 (idle now) that does the core dual-tuner DVR functionality with 32MB RAM and a 66MHz PowerPC processor. There are only two places where speed is an issue: grid-style guide (code and/or DB was optimized for the list-style guide) and Season Pass Manager (it's been proven that RAM can improve this, even without the app using the additional RAM directly, but instead implementing it as a hard drive cache).

It might seem as if these devices have skimped on hardware, but good engineering is all about finding the proper tradeoff between cost and performance. Anything above the absolute minimum required raises cost without benefit. This is different from the general purpose PC, where people feel better if they've got higher numbers than their friends.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

you dont get it do you,, those features we complain it not having, were on other boxes before this one was produced, therefore there is no valid excuse why they are not on there now... 

no matter who produced them before

and when directv limits your choice of dvr's to get certain functions, and limits the common sense features they convienetly leave out, then we have every right to correctly slam directv

with the r15 we are given no choice, no r15a or r15b, or even if only one model still no ability to change defaults.. which many other boxes had ... and if the box had more memory etc.... then we could have the features we deserve since we are limited to 1 box......


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> I MEANT WHEN YOU WARCH A VOD SHOW, AND THE DO DELET OR DO NOT DELET POPS UP, AND U HIT DO DELETE, INSTEAD OIF GOING BACK TO MYVOD IT GOES TO TRHE INFO ON SHOW YOUU JUST ERASED, AND SAYS SHOW COPY PROTECTED NOW


Chrishiatt, you posted this in the other theard that you had with issues (I would have posted this there but it is locked). I only saw one other person with this issue and I was unable to recreate it. How are you acessing the show in the first place? Are you playing it off the MYVOD by hitting play or do you go into the info tab first and then select play. I want to see if I can get this to happen on mine or not. Can you list a step by step begining with how you get to the show and how you play and delete it please. Thanks.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> you dont get it do you


I guess I don't. Clearly they've run up against that 64MB limit, and if only they'd had the sense to include just a bit more RAM, they could add those few lines of code to activate the second live buffer.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Chrishiatt, you posted this in the other theard that you had with issues (I would have posted this there but it is locked). I only saw one other person with this issue and I was unable to recreate it. How are you acessing the show in the first place? Are you playing it off the MYVOD by hitting play or do you go into the info tab first and then select play. I want to see if I can get this to happen on mine or not. Can you list a step by step begining with how you get to the show and how you play and delete it please. Thanks.


both ways, and at the end when i let show play out to the do delete or do not delete options pop up... when you hit do not delete, i am sent back to the options about the show .....

when i choose do not delete.... i am sent to that same screen EXCEPT screen only says channel number and nothing about the show... except it is copy protected..

my beef is, that when you choose a do delet after watch a my vod show, you should be sent back to the myvod screen that shows all your other recorded shows


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> with the r15 we are given no choice, no r15a or r15b, or even if only one model still no ability to change defaults.. which many other boxes had ... and if the box had more memory etc.... then we could have the features we deserve since we are limited to 1 box......


Chris...

Even though they may have had different "makers" names on the outside.
Underneath the shell of the unit, the TiVo boxes where the same.
No differences in Memory, Processors, or hard drive core types (ide vs SATA)

The R10 was different, as it changed the type of memory architecture... but it had the same amount as the Series 2 units.

So the only choice you had was to change the core type of Series.
(If you had a TiVo Series 1, you could go to a Series 2, or go to a UTV)

I still need to get my hands on a philips version of the R15, so I can see what the differences are there.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

i was at compusa yesterday and the R15 they had on display was a much more slim and trim version. i got one of the initial ones and mine is significantly larger. where did they cut out space?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

That would be the PHILIPS built version of the unit.

Honestly, I don't know... but I plan to find out... I need to get me one of those versions.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Chris...
> 
> Even though they may have had different "makers" names on the outside.
> Underneath the shell of the unit, the TiVo boxes where the same.
> ...


i meant the phillips, samsung sony dtv boxes b4 r15. and now from another thread utv, having pip. directv needs to add


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> both ways, and at the end when i let show play out to the do delete or do not delete options pop up... when you hit do not delete, i am sent back to the options about the show .....
> 
> when i choose do not delete.... i am sent to that same screen EXCEPT screen only says channel number and nothing about the show... except it is copy protected..
> 
> my beef is, that when you choose a do delet after watch a my vod show, you should be sent back to the myvod screen that shows all your other recorded shows


Ok, I have tried this and you are correct it should go back to the MYVOD screen and that's what it does on all three of mine (i goes back to the MYVOD). I only saw one other person with is issue and he had to get his box swapped because resetting it didn't fix it. Mine you that won't fix all the other issues that the R15 is having, but I'm pretty sure this one does require a swap out. So far your the second person who has had is issue on this board. Anyone else?


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Ok, I have tried this and you are correct it should go back to the MYVOD screen and that's what it does on all three of mine (i goes back to the MYVOD). I only saw one other person with is issue and he had to get his box swapped because resetting it didn't fix it. Mine you that won't fix all the other issues that the R15 is having, but I'm pretty sure this one does require a swap out. So far your the second person who has had is issue on this board. Anyone else?


thanx


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> i meant the phillips, samsung sony dtv boxes b4 r15. and now from another thread utv, having pip. directv needs to add


Chris,

The Philips, Samsung, Hughes, RCA ... DVR boxes, where all the same underneath.
The Sony was an exception, but only marginally.

If you are refering to non-DVR products, then you have a point.

As for the PIP... and UTV... There is a reason why UTV was so much more expensive then the TIVo units.
I will take that back to the PIP thread.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Chris,
> 
> The Philips, Samsung, Hughes, RCA ... DVR boxes, where all the same underneath.
> The Sony was an exception, but only marginally.
> ...


i am listing both dvr and reg recivers and hd


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> i am listing both dvr and reg recivers and hd


Chris,

As you already have the info regarding previous DTV DVRs and plain receivers, please share them with us. What processor(s) and how much memory do these previous units have. One of the reasons I started this thread was to see exactly what the differences are that you've mentioned without having to do all the leg work myself.

How 'bout it?


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## chargrilled (Mar 13, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Ok, I have tried this and you are correct it should go back to the MYVOD screen and that's what it does on all three of mine (i goes back to the MYVOD). I only saw one other person with is issue and he had to get his box swapped because resetting it didn't fix it. Mine you that won't fix all the other issues that the R15 is having, but I'm pretty sure this one does require a swap out. So far your the second person who has had is issue on this board. Anyone else?


I have seen that screen a couple of times too...I can't recall the exact steps I took to get there, but it seems pretty close to the above...Made me wonder what kind of "features" D* may have in store for us...


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> The R15 includes:
> [*]The STi5528 Chipset from STMicroelectronics. This includes a ST20 166MHz MPEG2 decoder and a ST40 200MHz application processor (for OS and scheduling and such).


Well FWIW, many of the Sky+ boxes "across the pond" use STi5516AWC (180MHz 32-bit ST20 CPU MPEG2 decoder) Chipset and report very similar problems with the S/L problem.

For those that are not aware, BskyB another News Corp controlled company with remarkably similar DVR the "Sky+," as compared to the R15. Sky+ is run on NDS software, yet another News Corp controlled company.

So, don't you think this leads more to a "it is a software issue" vs. hardware issue? I find it hard to believe that TiVo has a patent on a DVR recording a season pass or S/L.

Just a quick thought...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

morgantown said:


> I find it hard to believe that TiVo has a patent on a DVR recording a season pass or S/L.


They don't... but you still can't take another companies code and use it though.

So they can't have a patent on the concept of recording things that are part of a schedule... but they can have "patent" or copywrited (not sure which is the correct term), the exact code and tequnique they used for their scheduler engine.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They don't... but you still can't take another companies code and use it though.
> 
> So they can't have a patent on the concept of recording things that are part of a schedule... but they can have "patent" or copywrited (not sure which is the correct term), the exact code and tequnique they used for their scheduler engine.


Not "take" the code, reverse-engineer it .

I somehow don't think that the S/L (or dual buffer) could be a hardware issue. It has to be a software issue. Do you still think that the R15 has more in common with DirecTV than it does with NDS?

Frankly, as long as it "eventually" works is all that realy matters, but the R15 seems one heck of a lot like the other NDS DVRs. Just seems like a tough task to saddle DTV with fixing another companies software...

When/if DTV does fix it, then NDS should write a check to DirecTV for all the hard work.


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