# Who bought the last mpeg 2 at full retail ?



## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

It would be interesting to know where e* drew the line and stopped selling the mpeg 2 receivers at full retail knowing about the mpeg 4 turn on? 

I bought my 942 on 11/25/05 for $644.14 from a local Dish dealer.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

Someone asked me privately, "What's the point?"

My response,

The point is when enough people stand up and say something is wrong companies listen. I have a very hard time rewarding a company that treats the people who got them where they are like crap and in all good conscience not sure I wish to continue doing business with them. Companies should be held to a standard and who else is going to do it if not their customers? What e* does will be in response to their customers. Trust there will be suites and e* will step up to some extent.

You don't know me and I agree a lot of the complaining is people wanting something they didn't pay for and that's not me or a lot of others. I used my receiver for 3 weeks and it never did work correctly. I paid $650 for a receiver they now agree I haven't received yet and are now trying to find a new one to send me, even now instead of a 622. Part of this because I bought it from my local dealer not them. Why would that make a diff?

If I had bought, received, and used my receiver for months before this happened it would be different, How much I guess would depend or how long it actually was since I received it and put it to use. I my case I'm still waiting and am curious as I'll bet others are as to when e* stopped selling them????? Was Feb 1st the cut off date? And if you bought yours on Jan 30, 06 would you that bought yours 6 months ago feel the same?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't know... but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still selling 942s up and until midnight just before 2/1!

Also consider that many retailers still had (probably have) 921s and 942s still in stock today, and I suspect they are still selling them too. And of course lots of people are still selling them on eBay.

So, if the argument is against selling these receivers... then you should be mad at anyone and everyone who is selling them, and that includes folks on here who have recently upgraded and post that they are selling their 942s on eBay now, knowing the limitations!

I've pointed this out before... many customers are no better than they claim Dish has been in regards to this.

But on the more general front... almost every piece of technology you can buy is "old" as soon as you take it home. Many things are obsolete within a few months.

At least in the case of the 942 receiver, you can still get every channel now that Dish sold you when you bought/leased that receiver. Sure, you can't get the new MPEG4 channels... but there is never a promise of new channels from any provider.

NOW, if Dish had deactivated 942s or stopped all MPEG2 programming on 2/1 and forced us all to upgrade... it would be a different scenario... but basically we all have a choice... Upgrade now and get a few new channels for our efforts... OR stay with what we got and enjoy those receivers for another year or so before taking the MPEG4 plunge.

It's hard for me to get too angry when I consider those things.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Ken - I'm with you. I have a difficult time understanding E*s business mentality on this one. They are in a business subject to a fair amount of customer churn and you would be thinking they'd be looking for things to help differentiate them from the rest of the pack. Their customer service has been steadily going down hill and they are starting to look more and more like a cable company. Between a 921 and 942, I've got $1,700 invested in hardware purchases. I've been with these guys for the better part of a decade, paying for a lot of subscription services, and expect them to provide a better upgrade offer. The response I got from a CEO CSR I dealt with was less than stellar - "I understand your concerns, but this is all we can do and we're not changing our position."

John


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

There is no company I have ever heard of that will discount any product until its replacement has been announced. In some cases, dealers will start applying discounts of their own or rebates to clear inventory.. Other than that I cannot think of any company that discounts a product until it actually announces a shipping or soon to ship replacement


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Unfortunately, this is a long standing corporate practice. Companies "clear the channel" by selling all the old stuff, .... just before they basically say that it is crap shortly afterwards. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Consumer Electronics show is AFTER Christmas. If the show happened in November, sales before Christmas would plummet as they realized that their new computer or gadget will be replaced by a "new" and "improved" version that makes them hate what they bought (Apple is the worst with this and their Ipods).

The best way to dodge this is to buy at Costco. No one has a return policy as generous as theirs. You may be able to avoid some buyers remorse if you go through them.....


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

eBay is a world wide yard sale and should be considered quite different then buying from your/my local Dish dealer. I'm not sure I get it, but what is the difference between buying directly from e* and buying from a local Dish dealer?
I try to make well informed decision about the purchases I make as I'm disabled and money is tight. I watched this mess from the beginning of hd waiting for things to stabilize and finally after years of waiting, watching Charlie in Nov, searching the Internet for info, and being promised that if and when mpeg 4 did come out the 942 would hold up I made the plunge.

___________________

942
2x 510's
2x 4700's
3x 3700's
etc, etc, etc
5th dish 3/8/06
Sony 34" XBR
dish© 9+yrs


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

If you had asked the question here back in November 05,you would have probably been told to wait..


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

I sympathize with the folks that bought the old hardware there is no doubt you got a raw deal.
I realize this advice is too late now, but what were you thinking of paying over $600 for a piece of proprietary hardware that by its very design is destined to be bsoleted at dish's whim ? 
Owning this kind of stuff is just a BAD deal - youre assuming all the risk - when you can lease for about $5 or so ?
Do the math! Did you really think that this hardware was going to last for 10 years ?
I understand the DESIRE to own vs rent but it just doesnt make sense. I have had about 4 or 5 different recievers in the 6 years I have had Dish that may or may not be typical.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Someone probably bought one unwittingly on January 31 at 11:59pm.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

mikeyoung said:


> I sympathize with the folks that bought the old hardware there is no doubt you got a raw deal.
> I realize this advice is too late now, but what were you thinking of paying over $600 for a piece of proprietary hardware that by its very design is destined to be bsoleted at dish's whim ?
> Owning this kind of stuff is just a BAD deal - youre assuming all the risk - when you can lease for about $5 or so ?
> Do the math! Did you really think that this hardware was going to last for 10 years ?
> I understand the DESIRE to own vs rent but it just doesnt make sense. I have had about 4 or 5 different recievers in the 6 years I have had Dish that may or may not be typical.


Supposedly they were never available as a lease to current customers although I've heard of some who say they were able to get them? 
Personally I was not, and had tried since hd/dvr's came out. The 921 looked like a bad deal when they came out and seemed to have for the most part stayed that way. I remember when the 942 came out I couldn't lease or buy one. 
Yes I would have loved to have been able to lease one and called every other month or so since I bought my first hdtv almost 2+ years ago. It never saw hd content because I wasn't willing to give up the dvr feature for a 811 which was for the most part all that was ever offered to me on lease. The 921 starting at 1k seemed like a bad purchase for the little content offered. I just got tired of waiting and the 942 was reported to be fairly solid and was to be the receiver for hd so I took the deep plunge but not willingly. I think they should have stopped selling them and started leasing them to ALL current customers if available which they were at least 90 days before the switch.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Companies that are shipping technology A today, are almost ready to go with technology B testing and have technology C in the approval stage and have folks working on plans for whatever technology D will be.

So, in essence, companies should never sell anything because they already know it is several levels "obsolete" since they are already working on the next several replacements.

Bottom line in technology always is... shop around, research, try to find the best price and buy what you most need/want... then don't shop anymore once you make the purchase, or you will have regrets of not waiting that extra week or month or whatever.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

Can you give some examples of such radical shifts in tech that have left people over night with antiquated equipment? 

Only thing I can think of that may come close is in pc's but I went the Mac route and they've/I've only had one hiccup as the tech savy at Dish say in what 10 yrs+? 
My almost 2 yr old G4/1.2 iBook isn't the fastest laptop anymore and I'm not running the latest OS but I'm sitting here typing on it. Over the years it costs in upgrades to keep closer to current (if I want) but it still works great. Mac has been using mpeg4 since 2002, it's called Quicktime. 
I'm sure it's simple but why all the secrecy? Piracy, espionage?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

ken310 said:


> Can you give some examples of such radical shifts in tech that have left people over night with antiquated equipment?
> 
> Only thing I can think of that may come close is in pc's but I went the Mac route and they've/I've only had one hiccup as the tech savy at Dish say in what 10 yrs+?
> My almost 2 yr old G4/1.2 iBook isn't the fastest laptop anymore and I'm not running the latest OS but I'm sitting here typing on it. Over the years it costs in upgrades to keep closer to current (if I want) but it still works great. Mac has been using mpeg4 since 2002, it's called Quicktime.
> I'm sure it's simple but why all the secrecy? Piracy, espionage?


What antiquated equipment are you left with?

The 921 and 942 still get all the channels you were promised at the time you bought them. There was never a promise that you would be able to get every new channel in the future.

No one is forcing a receiver upgrade... we can all keep what we have and watch what we have now without interruption. We can also upgrade if we want and get some new channels.

I'm using a 3 year old computer too... but I can't just go and buy/install the latest software/hardware in it. It is perfectly great at what I use it for, but it has been behind the technology curve for quite a while.

My first cellphone didn't have colors or graphics... but it still worked as a phone like it was advertised! Just like the "antiquated" receivers are still working with Dish now... just not getting all the new channels, which was never part of the promise.

I bought a new truck a couple of years ago... then they started offering satellite radio as a standard in the trucks... I have to buy a new radio and get a new antenna install if I wanted satellite radio... but my current radio still works just fine for all the non-satellite radio, so what could I complain about?

Japan had 1080 analog TV in the 1990s... and some European countries had 750 or so analog TV before my lifetime... so much of the new HD technology has been around in one form or another for quite a while... so I'm not sure what exactly was the point of mentioning MPEG4 as existing since the late 1990s... Some things take a while to adopt. Other things are adopted more quickly.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

ken310 said:


> Can you give some examples of such radical shifts in tech that have left people over night with antiquated equipment? Only thing I can think of that may come close is in pc's but I went the Mac route and they've/I've only had one hiccup as the tech savy at Dish say in what 10 yrs+? My almost 2 yr old G4/1.2 iBook isn't the fastest laptop anymore and I'm not running the latest OS but I'm sitting here typing on it. Over the years it costs in upgrades to keep closer to current (if I want) but it still works great. Mac has been using mpeg4 since 2002, it's called Quicktime.
> I'm sure it's simple but why all the secrecy? Piracy, espionage?


Every company that I know of keeps its tech secrets to itself almost until release because of competition.

While MPEG4 has been around for a long time in various forms, its never been in a satellite receiver, and it really wasn't that big of a secret, its been discussed here for at least 18 months as Dish did discuss it, What Dish didn't say until the January 06 Charlie Chat is when recievers would be available that supported MPEG4, and Dish, along with many other companies routinely do not discuss release dates of new hardware for a number of reasons..

Some I can think of include not letting the competition know where you are specifically with your plans until you are ready to go. Not sabotaging sales of their existing line of equipment, this can be everything from receivers to computers, to ipods, to TV's etc etc.

While you can say its unfair that you or someone you know bought a Dish receiver, when someone at Dish knew that newer model receivers were right around the corner, the best that can be said is, for good, bad or indifferent is that Dish is far from the only company to do this..

This happens all the time with all sorts of technology, and especially computers and home electronics. A lifecycle of many home electronics product is 6-9 months.. Its possible that newer models of Dish recievers are already being worked on for release later this year with newer, faster, better features and darn, I just got that 622.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

hdme,
It's interesting how many people know what myself and others have been or were promised. I don't remember you being in the store the day I bought my receiver, on the phone with all the people I spoke to about it, or in my computer chat or email. You also don't know my or others specific situations but you judge. I've been using my old 510 lately and am still waiting for Dish to find me a New 942 and ship it to me. I was last told hopefully today or tomorrow? An ert supervisor trying to help out gave me Voom and some other nice concessions but when the installer came today to install my 2nd dish the dp44? switch wasn't authorized and she (the ert) who set it up wasn't in today so the guy left and the work order was canceled. I wonder how long it will take to get them back out here? I'm trying very hard to be patience but it's been a month now and they agree I've never received the receiver that I paid $644.14 for but since I bought from my local dealer and not directly from them they say they can't do more?? Look up the word antiquated.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

normang said:


> This happens all the time with all sorts of technology, and especially computers and home electronics. A lifecycle of many home electronics product is 6-9 months.. Its possible that newer models of Dish recievers are already being worked on for release later this year with newer, faster, better features and darn, I just got that 622.


I agree with a lot of what you say and I hope they're working on new receivers, I would expect it. I wonder how many people who recently bought the 942 just before the switch and are/were stuck with only 5 channels of hd have actually dropped the hd because of the now limited content or just dropped Dish. Some forums suggest their a quite a few. No one should have to spend $650 to get a hd/dvr in their home to be told the next day oh by the way you can't get the future hd channels we told you you could because today we're doing mpeg4. 
Can anyone acknowledge that with all the misinformation out there that maybe some statements were made that weren't accurate. Not a sales person right? When you ask someone in his or her profession questions you expect a certain amount of accuracy in their answers. Sure if it's Wallmart or you may not want to rely to heavily on their answers but in a tech savvy Audio Video store you expect more accuracy and most of the time you'll get it. I received an apology from the guy I bought it from but since they didn't make any money on the deal I don't expect them to eat it, be more careful in the future but personally I don't expect any more from him. Now the company that pocketed my money who I've been with 9+ years, yes I expect more from them. I may not get it but feel entitled to my opinion about it. When I called the 942 support team today about the dp 44 switch to go with the Voom upgrade I was to receive today the guy proceeded to tell me about the New 622 deal and suggested I upgrade April 1st. Hand to God it's true. My account is littered with notes beginning from early Feb. but he proceeded to tell me about this New great deal on a new hd/dvr, he wasn't sure of the receivers model #(622) and had to look at ? to get it. At this point I'll be happy to get what they've now promised and move on to something less stressful.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

ken310 said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say and I hope they're working on new receivers, I would expect it. I wonder how many people who recently bought the 942 just before the switch and are/were stuck with only 5 channels of hd have actually dropped the hd because of the now limited content or just dropped Dish. Some forums suggest their a quite a few. No one should have to spend $650 to get a hd/dvr in their home to be told the next day oh by the way you can't get the future hd channels we told you you could because today we're doing mpeg4.


Ken, first thing you have to do is accept a few things, first - life is not fair, never has been, never will be. Second, every day someone somewhere buys some electronics device, cell phone, a computer, something, only to have it obsoleted within hours, days. weeks of purchase. The question then becomes, can one live with it? If not, you can try and return it, you can sell it to someone who may not give one hoot about the shortcomings, but you will probably take a loss on the sale. You can upgrade, if there are upgrade options. Dish is providing options, are they the best options? They are the only options that Dish feels financially comfortable with.. As for the channels you cannot get, there are depending on the package, at least 180+ other channels that can be viewed, along with your HD OTA, if your in a position to receive those channels where you live. If that is not adequate, then your only choice in this situation is to upgrade via one of the available options.



ken310 said:


> Can anyone acknowledge that with all the misinformation out there that maybe some statements were made that weren't accurate. Not a sales person right? When you ask someone in his or her profession questions you expect a certain amount of accuracy in their answers. Sure if it's Walmart or you may not want to rely to heavily on their answers but in a tech savvy Audio Video store you expect more accuracy and most of the time you'll get it. I received an apology from the guy I bought it from but since they didn't make any money on the deal I don't expect them to eat it, be more careful in the future but personally I don't expect any more from him. Now the company that pocketed my money who I've been with 9+ years, yes I expect more from them. I may not get it but feel entitled to my opinion about it. When I called the 942 support team today about the dp 44 switch to go with the Voom upgrade I was to receive today the guy proceeded to tell me about the New 622 deal and suggested I upgrade April 1st. Hand to God it's true. My account is littered with notes beginning from early Feb. but he proceeded to tell me about this New great deal on a new hd/dvr, he wasn't sure of the receivers model #(622) and had to look at ? to get it. At this point I'll be happy to get what they've now promised and move on to something less stressful.


People get incorrect information everyday, even from supposedly knowledgeable people. I can walk into a Best Buy/Magnolia, or Ultimate Electronics and talk to sales people and ask them what I consider to be a simple technical question, and they are clueless or give me what I know is a wrong answer, or have to check with someone else. Sometimes they do have the right answer. Some people don't have the information until it is given to them. Support staff in many companies are the last to know of impending changes or are being trained only days before a product rollout with instructions not to pass on certain information until the product is released. You may note when you call some support lines, you get a recording that says your call maybe monitored for quality purposes, which is true, but it also provides an incentive for a tech not to tell customers information that is not supposed to be available until a specific date.

Also, every CSR you talk to at Dish may not review your call history before going into the upgrade to a 622 pitch.. It may not even have occurred to the person you talked to about your DP44 question to review any specific information about your account since you called about a switch question, hard to say..

In any event, Dish is moving into the future, whether we like it or not. There are certain business realities involved in this transition and some customers are not going to like some of the decisions, because its not feasible to hand 12 million customers a free MPEG4 receiver, and you have to draw a line somewhere that moves the customer base from the old to the new. Every company, Dish, Direct, Cable Co's deal with customer churn every day, people move, can't afford a higher package, don't watch HBO, ShowTime, or cannot afford them. cancel them, get upset over a repair or replacement, has a problem that cannot be readily resolved, the list goes on. The question then becomes, when you move to some other service for whatever reason, is it really better, is the grass really greener on the other side.. IMHO, it rarely is..


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm a little confused now, ken... Are you saying (per the top of this thread) that you paid for your 942 on 11/25/2005 but still don't have it?

That's an entirely different argument than the one we've been discussing lately... I know if I paid $650 or so almost 4 months ago and didn't have a receiver I would have been complaining and wanting a refund long ago... like back in December!


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

HDMe said:


> I'm a little confused now, ken... Are you saying (per the top of this thread) that you paid for your 942 on 11/25/2005 but still don't have it?
> 
> That's an entirely different argument than the one we've been discussing lately... I know if I paid $650 or so almost 4 months ago and didn't have a receiver I would have been complaining and wanting a refund long ago... like back in December!


I purchased all this equipment in late Nov early Dec knowing I/we would be out of town and I wanted to have it when I returned home later in Dec. On Dec 27th my father who lived in Miami died and I had to go deal with that, then my already poor health failed Jan 5th so I didn't get back home until Feb 4th. By no ones fault but my own I didn't start using the receiver to record until the superbowl 2/5 at which time I found my receiver to be defective. I tried tirelessly to get them to send me a 622 in exchange for the defective 942. Dish RA'd the 942 on 2/15, when the replacement (refurb) arrived it was filthy and scratched up. I returned it to dish and was told they would find me a new one. Meanwhile I decided to go back to my 510's. I figured two of them on 1 tv would be a decent temporary solution. Turns out 1 of them that was still in the (refurb) bag was defective also so they RA'd it. Now sitting here home on medical leave until April 1st I'm watching my New tv and listening to my New audio system on a single 510. The last offer from them, now up to a ert supervisor on March 6th was/is to send me a New 942 (if they can find one?) a free install of a 61.5 dish for Voom and a $50 credit if and when I upgrade to a 622. After all this time and aggravation I've decided fine let's get on to other things and except the hit. The installer came yesterday (3/8) early to install the 2nd dish and since the dp44 switch he has to use wasn't on the work order and I refused to pay $200 for the switch he left. Argggggg!!!!!!! The ert supervisor wasn't in yesterday? She gave me her direct line # to her desk and there's absolutely no wait to get her voice mail. Now since Feb 5 th I've been hurrying up to wait.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ken,

Either I've never read all your posts before, or this is the first time you've put it all in one place...

You are arguing from a completely different perspective than the one I, and I think others, have been replying to... There are some folks who bought and plugged in a 942 even in January who are mad... and while understandable, it's life so we end up saying essentially "suck it up".

Your situation sounds quite different... Through a series of unfortunate circumstances you didn't open your receiver it sounds like for a couple of months... and then found out it was defective... so you are still trying to get a warranty replacement that works for your box.

Now I understand better where you are coming from... and from a Dish perspective IF they are having such a hard time finding you a working 942 at this point and several months later... it seems to me it would be in their best interest to get you a ViP622 and call it a day. If I were a business, that's how I'd handle it at this point.

Of course they wouldn't have to do it... but it just seems like the best way to handle things since your original purchase was only a couple months old when it failed and they have been dragging their feet at replacing it for you like they ought to.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Doesnt E* have a requirement that you activate within 30 days like D* does? It would certainly eliminate the scenario that ken310 is describing......


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Ken,
> 
> Either I've never read all your posts before, or this is the first time you've put it all in one place...
> 
> ...


They've actually only been (supposedly) looking for a New 942 since I discovered the problem and after I refused the refurb from hell, shipped back on 2/23.

I agree, 
They've authorized sending me a "new 942 (when they find one?), installing a 61.5 (Voom) dish, and a $50 credit" but it's taking forever. I hate to bring my personal life into this but the bottom line is I'm home alone ill with 4k+ of new equipment and having to use my 510. Unfortunately, personally it gets much worse. I tried to plan for this down time to take care of myself after having been a single disabled parent for what seems like forever now but e* seems determined to make it twice the hell it was to be and why? I'm clueless. 
It wouldn't cost them anymore to do the right thing and would in the long run be to their advantage. The problem seems to be getting high enough up the line to get it done. I'm up to an ert supervisor but I don't think that's high enough? If I could present my case to someone who Could do something I believe they'd do the right thing? 
The ert supervisor (Joella) said she would call no later then today the 9th to let me know hopefully the new receiver was on it's way or ? Her hours are from 6 to 2:30 which has come and gone yet another day without a word. I started leaving messages yesterday morning when the guy was here to install the 61.5 dish. 
I have her personal # and don't have to wait for more then a few seconds to get her voice mail. 
When the 61.5 dish install fell through because the dp44 switch wasn't on the work order and I refused to pay $200 for it, I couldn't get her. Later in the day after not getting a return call from her I called and the advanced tech proceeded to tell me my best bet would be to wait for this New deal on the 622. Probably his first day or his first day in the 942 tech? but the reason I called was to have someone look at my account to see if it said install a 61.5 dish or that plus turn the mans Voom on? He was looking at the notes and talking to his supervisor when he made that suggestion. 
All I know at this point is I'm truly exhausted with this mess but refuse to punish myself by flipping the switch to the inferior (in my area) cable.
It was something to watch them give a 622 away on their tech show 2/13.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> Doesnt E* have a requirement that you activate within 30 days like D* does? It would certainly eliminate the scenario that ken310 is describing......


Except for the mpeg 4 issue the date is irrelevant. Once you activate it you own it period is what I'm told. Part of what I still don't understand or maybe don't believe is they would do better? if I had bought it from them instead of my local dealer. When you look at this remember, I've been with Dish for 9+ years so this wasn't a new account. All they did was sell it to me for exactly what they paid e* for it plus tax.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This is one of those situations where apparently the obvious solution doesn't seem to make sense for Dish.

You bought a receiver, activated it or not doesn't really matter in my mind since it has a 1 year warranty... so a couple of months and you have a problem... They try to replace your bad 942 with one that is in worse condition than your brand new one! I would have refused that replacement too.

Now, their only obligation to you is to find you a brand new functional 942 OR refund your money. Seems to me either option is fair and would be acceptable to you.

But they also have the creative option on the table, since they clearly don't want to give back money and can't find a 942 to replace yours with... someone should have a "lightbulb" moment and offer you a ViP622 to own as a replacement. Seems like their inventory on the new receiver would be better than the one they haven't been making for a few months!

I forgot to ask... do you still have the broken original 942? Or did you already send that back?


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

[/QUOTE]
HDMe;
This is one of those situations where apparently the obvious solution doesn't seem to make sense for Dish.
[/QUOTE]

Thank You!

[/QUOTE]
You bought a receiver, activated it or not doesn't really matter in my mind since it has a 1 year warranty... so a couple of months and you have a problem... They try to replace your bad 942 with one that is in worse condition than your brand new one! I would have refused that replacement too.
[/QUOTE]

I seriously though about keeping the refurb as I really wanted what I paid for, but that simply wasn't it.

[/QUOTE]
Now, their only obligation to you is to find you a brand new functional 942 OR refund your money. Seems to me either option is fair and would be acceptable to you.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately their "obligation" doesn't seem to have a reasonable time frame on it and obviously of those 2 options I'd prefer my money back so I could buy the 622.

[/QUOTE]
But they also have the creative option on the table, since they clearly don't want to give back money and can't find a 942 to replace yours with... someone should have a "lightbulb" moment and offer you a ViP622 to own as a replacement. Seems like their inventory on the new receiver would be better than the one they haven't been making for a few months!
[/QUOTE]

Lightbulbs must be in short supply? I'd be curious to know how many people at E* have the authority to make that decision? There can be a lot of drones at large company especially coming in on the phone line as opposed to the front door. If they add up all the frusteration I've been put through, that alone is worth the 622 exchange.

[/QUOTE]
I forgot to ask... do you still have the broken original 942? Or did you already send that back?
[/QUOTE]

I still have it. I thought about sending it back on the original RA but figured I'd lose it altogether that way.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

I think I know why I'm unhappy with the 510 now, it's not just the interactive software / guide but my hdtv isn't getting the same sd signal as it did with the 942 w/hdmi is it? The up-conversion ??


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## Kricket (Nov 18, 2005)

i havent gone through this whole thread so please dont flame me here but i just wanted to throw in my experience

when i found out the 622's were coming out, i called a few days BEFORE they launched - i dont remember how many days exactly, but it was within the WEEK (it was really like 2-3 days before launch) - i told the rep that i wanted one of the "new hd-dvr's" - she said - "no problem - we could set you up with the 942 at $798 installed"

so just a couple of days before launch - there wasnt even a mention of the new receivers

and ps - when i used to work retail (which i did for about 10 years) - i would ALWAYS tell customers when there was an upgrade just around the corner - i didnt want to just sell them something knowing that a newer model at basically the same price was coming out at the end of the month...

i think this is the real problem here - sure, you can still pick up MOST of the hd channels on the 942 - but definitely not all of them - i think that if someone purchased the 942 within 30 days of the 622's release, they should be allowed to at least have the option to exchange it


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

No flames here, but I will say Thanks! for answering my question.

People can say what they will but for those of us who have been with Dish since pushed off C-band because of content dropping off like flies would have appreciated a little more honesty from them.

I hope all the $ Charlie + made at the end selling antiquated equipment serves them well. It just goes to show eventually all is corrupted in corporate America. There may be a couple honest companies left but damn to few. It's hard to compete honestly while others lie, mislead, and pillage. 

If one follows this Dish hd fiasco from a current customers perspective from the beginning they'd feel quite differently. 

You have to know the facts. The 921 came out in late 03. It was a piece of crap then @ $1,000 and it's still a piece of crap today, windoze (esp. 95) all over again? 
The 942 was released last spring @ $700 and was a marked improvement.

Now comes the distribution nightmare. I can't do it all here and now but We (current subs) couldn't rent, lease, or buy either of them for a great portion of their runs. I think at the end everyone had a pretty good bead on the 921 but still hoped for a software miracle.
The 942 on the other hand was still a relatively new and stable receiver at it's end and no-one except a very select few knew of it's impending doom. 

That didn't stop the speculations and the lies to to sell them. Give me a break if you don't think sales people don't mislead customers and if you do think all sales people are honest Please start another post about it. I bought my first hdtv over 2 years ago after having talked to Dish and was told " The 921 will be available to current customers in a couple of months after we catch up with the demand. That hdtv never saw hd content in my home because the only thing offered was the 811 and after having had dvr (4700, 510's) for a couple of years I wasn't going to a very limited amount of hd content and lose my dvr. Neither was I going to shell out a grand for a receiver that everyone was having so many problems with. Look at how many forums there're for 921 tech issues.

I honesty think people would be amazed at how all this hd was done. I waited over 7 mths before they'd even sell me a 942 much less the promised lease. 

The old supply excuse, I think was limiting the (unknowing beta) testing to a limited few to keep the overall wheels still rolling while trying to figure out the new tech. After all what company has a demand problem that long and doesn't ramp up and produce more product. Unless again, They were limiting the fallout to a limited amount of customers. 

E*, Dish has by far (I've thought) the best product on the market but it's the recent business tactics that to me stand to be scrutinized. :nono2:


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

HDMe said:


> What antiquated equipment are you left with?
> 
> The 921 and 942 still get all the channels you were promised at the time you bought them. There was never a promise that you would be able to get every new channel in the future.
> 
> ...


Those arent necessarily good examples though. The scope of what a E* receiver does it very limited comparatively. It allows you to watch tv channels. That you have to keep paying them month after month to receive. E* *needs* you to do that. It aint like just selling you something and then sayin.. see ya!

If the beef was strictly *features* of the receiver that were lacking until a new model was released it would be a lil diff. Caller ID, outputs for 2 TV's.. stuff like that.

The only way your truck example would work is that when you purchased it for some reason motor vehicles were only able to drive in a 50 miles raduis of your house but then then 2 weeks later they offered one that could drive anywhere you wanted to go. You wouldnt think that was shady as hell if the dealer didnt inform you of that before you made your purchase? Let you decide the better course of action? You'd be content in the fact that your truck can still do what it was a capable of when you bought it?

As far as promises go.. what about Laurie on the HD Demo channel still telling us that if we upgrade to the 8PSK module we'll get great new HD programming now and in the future? I guess the future was only up to a certain point. But she didnt put any caveats in there.

Obviously I aint sayin that there wouldnt logically be changes over time.. or that a 6000 should have been able to get all HD channels that were ever offered til eternity.

Clearing out inventory on run of the mill merchandise to make way for the new is fine. But in this particular biz E* has to be smart at the same time too. Because it's not just about selling/leasing you hardware. It's about making sure you're happy enough to keep throwing them $60-120 a month for as long as possible.

Not p*ss you off right off the bat by selling you an HD receiver today and then finding out in less than a month (for example) you cant even sub to Local HD channels they just launched in your area.. just because it allowed them to clear a 942 off the shelf.


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm tempted but don't think I'm going to do it, but it would be interesting to know what promises or miss-leading statements have been made? Beating what seems to be a dead horse but only because there simply aren't enough people to stand up. That's thinking Charlie!

I don't understand anyone that says they KNOW what I/we were promised.

I've learned differently now, but it's interesting to have heard all I did about the tech when I purchased my first hdvt (2+ yrs ago) let alone my 2nd only to find that my new hdtv was way ahead of dish's learning/using curve. Yes of coarse I checked with dish before I purchased them after all that's the only signal I receive, the one I pay for. It's not like I just went out and bought the best just to have it, not use it.

I'm all for advancing tech, my hobby use to be building Mac's before the OS X but how about a little honesty for those of us who had waited and had made every effort to know what was going on. It was very clear to classic Mac users what was around the bend. 

Secret software ok but equipment that becomes antiquated over night is clearly wrong! The almighty dollar speaks yet again and we loyal long time customers that have been waiting literally for years in the end get the shaft. 

How much would it have cost to stop selling the 942 say a month before they knew it was going to become antiquated? Taking the hit of a recently leased unit would have been bad enough let alone one just purchased . 

Remember I'm still waiting for my (New) 942


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## ken310 (Feb 25, 2006)

They installed my 61.5 dish (w/switch) on 3/15/06. 
My new 942 is still nowhere to be found? 
That's over a month now that d* has been promising me a new receiver to replace the one I bought that's defective. I'm using my 510 when I watch sat. but am still being charged for the full hd pack.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

ken310 said:


> They installed my 61.5 dish (w/switch) on 3/15/06.
> My new 942 is still nowhere to be found?
> That's over a month now that d* has been promising me a new receiver to replace the one I bought that's defective. I'm using my 510 when I watch sat. but am still being charged for the full hd pack.


The answer to this and other questions, as to where your reciever is, and whether you should get a credit can be found one way or another at 800-333-Dish, posting here will not resolve these problems..


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