# Tivo is so clearly superior



## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

period.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

I used to agree. But there are some nice features in the HR20 that have grown on me over time. I still use my HR10-250 HD Tivo, too, but find myself using the HR20 more and more.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, an undefended statement has no defense and as such can't be argued. In my mathematics classes if I didn't show my work, I failed the problem. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

litzdog911 said:


> I used to agree. But there are some nice features in the HR20 that have grown on me over time. I still use my HR10-250 HD Tivo, too, but find myself using the HR20 more and more.


i like the record feature.


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Well, an undefended statement has no defense and as such can't be argued. In my mathematics classes if I didn't show my work, I failed the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


well, sorry for the lack of specifics here...i'm despondent over HR-20 not recording the season finale of Lost. My backroom SD Tivo did. Therefore Tivo is better.

In my Math classes I just had to get the right answer in order to pass.


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## rbaucom (Feb 13, 2007)

:new_cussi 
Just to say this so far out of my (2) tivo series two units I have had one crash, the day my hard drive died..... My tivos do not do HD so the picture does not look great on my 50" Sony HD in the bedroom. On my HR20-700 it is a every other day crash and a RB reset. 2 replacement units, and yes to the people that will read every line but this one and tell me to reformat it. I have reformatted it multiple times so much so that my wife watches her shows on the tivo in the other room because this one, freezes up or misses shows or drops audio.. And I do look forward for each update. I think we should refer to the HR20-700 as "Lamo" as compared to the "Tivo" perhaps if the powers that be at DT hear the word Lamo describing their product they will either fix it or... do the right thing.
just to clarify one point in my letter "It still can not record two shows at one time and if you attempt to delete out a program and guess what it crashes." refers to the fact while recording two shows (sometime one) and deleting out a program will cause a crash......

Here is my letter: 

I beg of the person reading this please pass it to your boss and then to that person would you please do the same and so on? The farther up the chain that this letter makes it the better chance we have of perhaps a change being enacted. And if any change results from it perhaps I will have done some good.

Please understand that if you had the best service at Bellagio in Vegas and were used to that service and then one day you decide to upgrade to their new deluxe top of the line service and suite.
They take you to your room, wow really shiny impressive door, looks nice, they deposit your luggage and then you turn around and you are in a room straight from Motel 6. How would you feel?
And when you call in to say wait I ordered something else and was promised it (I was promised a tivo hd unit and I made the rep read back the notes because I had read the reviews about the HR20-700, but later when I called in these notes were not able to be found) and the manager says well you can leave the room but you signed a two year contract on staying here.
Oh year we guarantee the room wont leak for a least 90 days. Oh this room leaks let me move you next door. Wait the next door room won't even upon? Hmm lets try this room, two days later your still in a motel 6 room and it leaks.

Wow, I just want to thank your top notch programmers. I have one again been blown away by my loving HR20-700 which I so lovingly call the Lamo unit that you sold me instead of my HD tivo that I was promised.
Some one actually sat down and decided that if you have a current program recording that you do not set the active turner with buffer to that station.
Oh now who the heck would be so stupid as to not think that wow a program might run over and the customer might want to switch to live tv and watch the end of it. NO you cant because some IDIOT decided that it should remain on the other tuner.
I have told all my friends how bad the unit is. I am now on my third unit. It still can not record two shows at one time and if you attempt to delete out a program and guess what it crashes.
Wow my other box did the same. Wow I was told that the unit was defective. I got sent a refurbished unit that would not even turn on as reset button was stuck. 
The sheer fact that I was such a loyal direct tv tivo fan, and now I feel like I am a rabid HR20-700 hater.
Oh and to the idiot who decided not to have it record on the buffer tuner. Well dude I hope to god your punishment is, you know I can not think of a punishment evil enough that you so rightly deserve.
I can not believe that such a poorly designed piece of equipment can make me loose my temper and make me want to run for a congressional seat so that I might pass a law that would force you to be imprisoned for poor judgment and bad programing skills.
I hope that a bunch of prominent law makers spouses have your unit.
Remember the airline industry and how they used to just bump people. I hope that happens to you. Just because I am a captive audience in the county and do not have a cable company that offers HD programing Oh well.
I will go with their dvr that is smart enough to have programmers and a CEO and board of directors that will put the button on the remote to allow you to switch to the other turner and the tuner while recording a program has the turner with the active buffer tuned to it as well.
At this point if your stock shares plummet, your dog leaves you and your life goes down the drain please realize that at this point it is karma and you deserve it for fostering such a lame piece of equipment on the public who loved you when you had the brains to use tivo.
When my contract is up you will loose my service unless you have made drastic changes. Yes I know I am a drop in the bucket and you may not care about loosing one person, but I hope that enough people leave because of the HR20-700 that everyone who green lighted the project will be sacked, or made to turn in their tivo's and be forced to use this HR20-700 as it comes straight from the factory.
FYI you can use Google with the phrase "HR20-700 problems" generates out 14,400 hits.
"I hate my HR20-700" returns 304 hits. "I love my HR20-700" only generates out positive reviews from people SELLING the unit.
Tivo?
Using the phrase "I hate my Tivo" Every one says that they love their tivo, if you click on the hits they will also say they hate watching tv with out their tivo.

I hope the person reading this looks around and says wow, because I am so busy at work I never use the product and what can we do to restore the publics faith in Direct TV?
You already know the answer on what you need to do, you just need to find the courage to say we messed up. Coke a Cola did....Make us love you again.
Please!


Ok there is my letter to them, I wish I could go back in time and record my conversation with the person who promised me a tivo...


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

There's no question in my mind that the TIVO is superior. It functions as intended--it records programs and doesn't crash. To this day, I'm having audio problems on my HR20 that have never been corrected, despite repeated software updates. Yes, the HR20 is much better than it was when released, and many bugs have been fixed, but it still isn't up to par with the TIVO. The HR20-no dual live buffers, no suggestions, not reliable, a clunky interface, and noisy (the hard drive sounds like a typewriter). The only benefit to me (for my needs) with the HR20 is MPEG IV.

All three of my TIVOs (2 r10s and 1 HR10-250) work perfectly. They are quiet, and perform flawlessly.

So, and as I have suggested before, let TIVO back into the Directv marketplace. let the folks decide which box they would rather have. After all, just about two years ago, there were multiple brands of boxes, not just the Directv brand. Competition is good, frustrated customers are not.


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I have to disagree. Personally, I can't stand Tivo. Most people that have used UTV agree. While the HR-20 is not as good as UTV, it is getting close. I have two HR-20's, and the only issue that I have had (which is a big one) is the lack of captioning on the HD locals. 

Why did it not record Lost? Did you have two programs recording at 9:00 with a higher priority?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Tivo is just an interface. Most of the reasons people list as to why Tivo is better seem to be hardware related, not interface related. The fact that Lost didn't record has nothing to do with the HR20's GUI. Maybe it's software related, maybe hardware. I like the HR20's GUI much better than Tivo. That said, however, the box as a whole seems to be less reliable than my DirecTivo boxes. So saying "Tivo" is better because the box it runs on is more releiable is a flawed statement.....IMO.


Edit: Just to be clear, I like the HR20 more than my old DirecTivo (HD notwithstanding).


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

To each their own.... Glad you like TIVO. Congrats.

I like my 2 HR20's, they record flawlessly.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

The ONLY thing TiVo has that is better than the HR20 is DLB. I like the fact that when I am looking at the guide, my play list etc, I can still watch tv while moving though menus, TiVo can't do that. I have to manually pad series links with TiVo as well as the HR20. TiVo is not superior, just different.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I wish people would quit comparing their SD Tivos to the HR20. And when the HR10 is sitting there NOT able to record the MPEG4 stations, what good is it?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mganga said:


> period.


And why does it matter and why must you post this?

Seems like there are many posts like this all of a sudden after the DirecTV announcement of all the new HD channels. Hmmmmmm.

As I said in another thread.

Tivo and DirecTV are dead to each other.

Period.

Move on.

Get over it.

Go cry quietly about it if you can't accept the future.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Lost recorded fine for me. Good Episode


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## ajsvmax (Jan 22, 2007)

I used to long for TIVO, but that has subsided. I have grown used to the HR20. For people who don't adjust to change very well, may never get used to it. 
On a different note: I pretty fed up with the networks carrying a show over 2 minutes over into a new Timeslot. that's lame tactics! 
Drew


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

say-what said:


> To each their own.... Glad you like TIVO. Congrats.
> 
> I like my 2 HR20's, they record flawlessly.


Amen to that I will take these boxes over the Tivo box any day and 4 months ago before I switched I would have never thought that


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

I would rather have a HR20 with DLB. Since that isn't possible, I'm partial to a TIVO.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I love my two Hr20's and my R15. My Tivo based R10 has been deactivated and I can think of absolutely no reason to change that.

Now maybe I should go over to Tivocommunity.com, under varying user names, and post threads about how the DVR Plus series is so clearly superior to Tivo. Period.

Carl


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I sold my 2 (formerly) beloved HR10-250's on eBay. I had paid $999 each for them too.

Loved them.

A lot.

But I honestly prefer the HR20. Other than DLB, it does everything well.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

It seems to me that people just want to stir stuff up. I have had Tivo and I now have the R15 and the HR20 and I love them. I am very happy with them and I would take the HR20 over the Tivo any day.

Tivo is never coming back to Directv and my opinion is for you people to get over it. If you want Tivo then go to a provider that has Tivo on there system.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

mganga said:


> well, sorry for the lack of specifics here...i'm despondent over HR-20 not recording the season finale of Lost. My backroom SD Tivo did. Therefore Tivo is better.
> 
> In my Math classes I just had to get the right answer in order to pass.


My Tivo rebooted in the middle of watching a show recently. My HR20 has never rebooted itself unexpectedly. Therefore, Tivo is worse.

(This is my way of saying you can't go from a specific instance and draw a general conclusion.)


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> I wish people would quit comparing their SD Tivos to the HR20. And when the HR10 is sitting there NOT able to record the MPEG4 stations, what good is it?


The HR10's are obsolete. Period.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

mganga said:


> period.


I gave up this debate a long long time ago.

Created a long chart with analysis when I was comparing Cable (w/Series3) to FIOS (w/Series3) to DirecTV (with HR20) back in December.

Was a waste of time. Fun, mentally challenging, but a total waste of time.

DirecTV will have the most content. 100 HD by year-end as we all know. For me, NFL-ST is key, same with MLB-EI in HD.

Content comes first. DirecTV wins.

DirecTV ended TiVo relationship. Case closed. I can't change that.

All the debate and analysis over one DVR over another started to get old.

Goal now is just to get the HR20 to be the best that it can be.

Hopefully with VOD & DLB some day.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I never understood the obsessive love Tivo users have. I thought 'Suggestions' where it auto-records was the dumbest idea ever & immediately shut it off on every new Tivo. Sound effects, too...a waste. I refused to pay for 2 HR10s when I upgraded to HD, so I went to cable. Those Moto boxes were "fun." My HR20s record everything, perfectly. I had 3 Tivo's crash, 2 DOA. I guess Tivo is crap, period.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

IMO, the partisanship shown by both sides is bizzarre. With about 12 members of this forum, I can tell, just me looking at their screen names, what "side" they will be on any given issue before I even read their post. 

Some think Tivo is the greatest DVR in the world and has no shortcomings at all (IMO it does have a number of shortcomings).

Some think D* can do no wrong and would defend them if a D* VP walked into their home and took their first born.

D* has done some things very well, others not so well. Neither D* nor Tivo love you as individuals, not sure where the undying love and defense of either company comes from some people.


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## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

Tom Robertson said:


> Well, an undefended statement has no defense and as such can't be argued. In my mathematics classes if I didn't show my work, I failed the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


:up: :lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rbaucom said:


> FYI you can use Google with the phrase "HR20-700 problems" generates out 14,400 hits.




















"Tivo is so clearly superior"


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> And why does it matter and why must you post this?
> 
> Seems like there are many posts like this all of a sudden after the DirecTV announcement of all the new HD channels. Hmmmmmm.
> 
> ...


:joy: :joy: :joy:

Well said.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

nice graphics


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

:beatdeadhorse: Period. :hurah:


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

People's memories are short sometimes and I think many have forgotten how bad the DirecTV TiVo's were right out of the box. 5 or so years later, I think TiVo has gotten it down to a science. DirecTV will too. They are demonstrating that with every update they introduce. I like my TiVo but more importantly I like the way it records what I want when I want it (barring any guide errors). I hope that my new HR20, due to arrive in the next few days, will do the same.

Question: How many HR10 hard drives were toast after the recent V6 software update?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

judson_west said:


> People's memories are short sometimes and I think many have forgotten how bad the DirecTV TiVo's were right out of the box. 5 or so years later, I think TiVo has gotten it down to a science. DirecTV will too. They are demonstrating that with every update they introduce. I like my TiVo but more importantly I like the way it records what I want when I want it (barring any guide errors). I hope that my new HR20, due to arrive in the next few days, will do the same.
> 
> Question: How many HR10 hard drives were toast after the recent V6 software update?


Or the fact that the DTivos didn't even have DUAL Tuners, let alone Dual Buffers when they where first released.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

brott said:


> "Tivo is so clearly superior"


Thanks Brott!!!!


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

judson_west said:


> Question: How many HR10 hard drives were toast after the recent V6 software update?


Mine's working fine.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> Mine's working fine.


Mine did too and still does. But there were a significant number that didn't survive the update.


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## jimbojive (Mar 12, 2007)

i used to just read and feel sorry for everyone with problems on their hr20-700
mine was working great.,,,,,,,WAS...... is the key here,
guess what.....mine is acting up
it does a few of the problems i readed about here. granted it not all the bad stuff but , enough to disapoint me.
but what can you do?
cry?
whine?
replace?
call dtv?
go back?
drop HD?
sell my PannyHD?
Switch?
or 
thank god everyday it come on?

my opion is
this Hr20-700 wouldn't make a pimple on Tivo's ass.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Now maybe I should go over to Tivocommunity.com, under varying user names, and post threads about how the DVR Plus series is so clearly superior to Tivo. Period.


If you actually did that, the thread would be deleted after you were flamed to death. Tivo is a religion for some people.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Yes but the tivo took less time on the search.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Burn him!


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

I like the HR20 better than ever now.


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## michael-reilly (Mar 18, 2007)

We have 2 UTVs We had 3 TiVos (an original, a series 2 and a DTivo) at various times and gave them all away. Worst UI my wife and I ever encountered. The HR20 UI comes close to the UTV but isn't there yet. Maybe someday. Until then we'll keep the UTVs in spite of DTV always trying to get us to accept a free upgrade.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> If you actually did that, the thread would be deleted after you were flamed to death. Tivo is a religion for some people.


And some people here complain that the mods are to tough on this board. :sure:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mhayes70 said:


> And some people here complain that the mods are to tough on this board. :sure:


The moderating is very relaxed here. This thread is a perfect example.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The moderating is very relaxed here. This thread is a perfect example.


I totally agree with you on that. We have some pretty good mods here.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mhayes70 said:


> We have some pretty good mods here.


No question, they do a great job.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

The mods let us post our opinions, some constructive, some not. But as long as week keep it clean, and don't get too personal, they are great.

I had 2 SD Dtivo boxes, and 1 HR10........and at first I wasn't sure about the HR20. I got my first one in early Sept 2006, and yes, there were quite a few problems. But, most problems have been addressed, especially the major ones. I dumped my HR10 on Ebay, and got my 2nd HR20.................I do not miss the Tivo, and really like the HR20 better.


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## CHDinCT (Dec 23, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> No question, they do a great job.


Yeah, but I hear the Tivocommunity Mod's are way better


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CHDinCT said:


> Yeah, but I hear the Tivocommunity Mod's are way better


Well, why don't you try posting a "DVR+ is so clearly superior" thread over there, and see how long it lasts?


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Or the fact that the DTivos didn't even have DUAL Tuners, let alone Dual Buffers when they where first released.


Kind of like the OTA tuners on the HR20.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> Kind of like the OTA tuners on the HR20.


Kind of, but not quite. Dual tuners are much more vital to the functionality of a DVR than OTA tuners.


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Kind of, but not quite. Dual tuners are much more vital to the functionality of a DVR than OTA tuners.


Tell that to someone whose HD locals are not yet on the sats.


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## CHDinCT (Dec 23, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Well, why don't you try posting a "DVR+ is so clearly superior" thread over there, and see how long it lasts?


Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Perhaps the wrong eomticom was attached?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> Tell that to someone whose HD locals are not yet on the sats.


I'll tell that to anyone.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

CHDinCT said:


> Yeah, but I hear the Tivocommunity Mod's are way better


Ya. Tivocommunity has Dual mods.  /s


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> I'll tell that to anyone.


So you would buy a DVR that had dual-tuners but could not record your local channels, effectively giving up the broadcast networks?

I sure wouldn't.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> If you actually did that, the thread would be deleted after you were flamed to death. Tivo is a religion for some people.


It's not much different than the zeal that a handful of posters here have for D*, for whom D* can do no wrong and jump in on any post that is critical of D*. There are zealots on both sides that have no ability to be objective.

What I like about this site is very few threads get locked here and most subjets are open to discussion, which IMO is a good thing.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

ebockelman said:


> So you would buy a DVR that had dual-tuners but could not record your local channels, effectively giving up the broadcast networks?
> 
> I sure wouldn't.


I think Jeremy was referring to OTA not being as vital if all that a particular person needed OTA for was for HD locals. Not locals in general.........

Locals in SD are pretty much everywhere.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> I'll tell that to anyone.


+1


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

brott said:


> "Tivo is so clearly superior"


Now if one was to do change the wording to ERROR. Results 1 - 10 of about 1,020,000 for TiVo errors. Compared to Results 1 - 10 of about 1,700 for HR20-700 errors.

Than there is using the term bugs. Using that term will give you these results: Results 1 - 10 of about 1,300,000 for TiVo bugs. and Results 1 - 10 of about 771 for HR20-700 bugs.
*EDIT*

Keep in mind TiVo has been around the block and the HR20 is hardly out of its crib. So googleing TiVo agenst one DVR the results will not be in TiVo's favor. A more accurate approach would be the new dvr tivo has vers. the hr20

Err.... Thanks Jeremy W, for pointing that out.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drewg5 said:


> Now if one was to do change the wording to ERROR than the HR20-700 would be the better device


Look carefully at the images brott posted. They show that the HR20 is superior.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

SDizzle said:


> I think Jeremy was referring to OTA not being as vital if all that a particular person needed OTA for was for HD locals. Not locals in general.........


Correct.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

> Results 1 - 10 of about 574,000 for tivo s3 problem. (0.12 seconds)





> Results 1 - 10 of about 1,510,000 for tivo series 3 problem. (0.33 seconds)


From Google. You can play along at home. No purchase necessary.

:beatdeadhorse:


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

brott said:


> "Tivo is so clearly superior"


If you compare HR20 problems to Tivo problems, it is a bit misleading because there are many more models of Tivos. I went to http://www.googlefight.com/ and created a googlefight with HR20 Problems vs. HR10 Problems. A bit more representative of real results I believe:










HR20 is still better


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> If you compare HR20 problems to Tivo problems, it is a bit misleading because there are many more models of Tivos. I went to http://www.googlefight.com/ and created a googlefight with HR20 Problems vs. HR10 Problems. A bit more representative of real results I believe:
> 
> _... photo deleted ..._
> 
> HR20 is still better


That's kinda funny! I don't actually think that this data represents anything meaningful. This was my subtle attempt at sarcasm as I was pointing out a fallacy in the OP's argument.


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

brott said:


> That's kinda funny! I don't actually think that this data represents anything meaningful. This was my subtle attempt at sarcasm as I was pointing out a fallacy in the OP's argument.


Mine too, Doug. All it really proves is that it depends on your point of view. (and of course that you can manipulate statistics to prove anything!) :biggthump


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## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

CHDinCT said:


> Yeah, but I hear the Tivocommunity Mod's are way better


You didn't say it right:

"TiVocommunity Mod's are so clearly superior."



[FishMan trusts that the Mod's here will recognize this as the sarcastic lampooning of this thread's OP as was intended.]


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

Tivo's better.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

You all are welcome to your opinions, especially those that agree with mine: DBSTalk.com moderators are the best and our sister sites have very, very good moderators too. 

But I'm not going to enter into an HR20 or TiVo is best. And to show my work I feel they both are incomplete. TiVo no MPEG4, HR20 no DLB. But they have their strengths. 

I will say the HR20 is moving forward. The HR10 hadn't for quite a long time...

Cheers,
Tom


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> And why does it matter and why must you post this?
> 
> Seems like there are many posts like this all of a sudden after the DirecTV announcement of all the new HD channels. Hmmmmmm.
> 
> ...


Why should I just quietly accept it when I have such wonderful understanding and support from fine folks like you?

BTW have y'all noticed how much better Tivo units are compared to the HR-20?


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

mganga said:


> Tivo's better.


Your posts are soooooooo compelling:lol:


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

mganga said:


> Why should I just quietly accept it when I have such wonderful understanding and support from fine folks like you?
> 
> BTW have y'all noticed how much better Tivo units are compared to the HR-20?


Wow...you post a thread and expect EVERYONE to accept it no questions asked. Nice. Must be your first time on the internet. :lol:


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

mganga said:


> Tivo's better.


HR20's Better


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

mganga said:


> Tivo's better.


And they still can't make any money.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Duffinator said:


> And they still can't make any money.


!rolling


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mganga said:


> Why should I just quietly accept it when I have such wonderful understanding and support from fine folks like you?
> 
> BTW have y'all noticed how much better Tivo units are compared to the HR-20?


You have my support for your right to opine here. One of the things I greatly like about DBSTalk.com is we are allowed to disagree with ANYONE about their thoughts about satellites and that we generally do so politely.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Obviously a highly scientific method...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Duffinator said:


> And they still can't make any money.


They had THE golden goose: Information. They couldn't make money. Most sad.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Wotan (May 20, 2007)

mganga said:


> ...i'm despondent over HR-20 not recording the season finale of Lost. My backroom SD Tivo did. Therefore Tivo is better.


Don't feel too bad, mganga. MY HR20 DID record the season finale of Lost ( 2 hours! ) but navigating past all the commercials with the stinking barely-functional FastForward drove me out of my alledged mind! Just got this HR20-100s last week and the FF is every bit as bad as they say it is.

Aside from recording, FF is the single most critical function of a DVR. Get it right or dagnabbit get outta Dodge. This machine is generating a crapload of bad press for DirecTV. I can say that can't I? Crapload?

Crapload. Crapload. Crapload.


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## rminsk (Dec 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Or the fact that the DTivos didn't even have DUAL Tuners, let alone Dual Buffers when they where first released.


It was only about 6 months after the DirecTiVo release before the software was updated to enable the second tuner. The day they enabled the second tuner they had dual live buffers.


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## rminsk (Dec 5, 2006)

judson_west said:


> People's memories are short sometimes and I think many have forgotten how bad the DirecTV TiVo's were right out of the box.


I have had one since about 2 months after they were first released and the DirecTiVo was/is a very stable platform. What problems are you refering too?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm sorry mganga is having problems and I hope he can find satisfaction in some way.

But as usual these types of threads go absolutley nowhere and are not all productive.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Isn't there a Tivo forum?
Isn't this the HR-20 forum?
Can't we group the Tivo & DLB threads into either their own forum or a "common" thread?

Free expression is great & I'm not wanting to stifle it here, but everyone does have a point where "too much" is reached.

Can something be done to get the HR-20 forum back to the HR-20?

Now hopefully back to our regularly scheduled programing...


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Wotan said:


> Don't feel too bad, mganga. MY HR20 DID record the season finale of Lost ( 2 hours! ) but navigating past all the commercials with the stinking barely-functional FastForward drove me out of my alledged mind! Just got this HR20-100s last week and the FF is every bit as bad as they say it is.
> 
> Aside from recording, FF is the single most critical function of a DVR.  Get it right or dagnabbit get outta Dodge. This machine is generating a crapload of bad press for DirecTV. I can say that can't I? Crapload?
> 
> Crapload. Crapload. Crapload.


FF for comercials? never used it.. 30 sec slip is what I use for comecials.. ff is for getting way into the program..


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## waynenm (Oct 31, 2006)

The argument has become quite specific to many. DLB and VOD. Tivo's great. But *any* DVR with good functionality will do. "Better than Tivo". Let's see if D* ever has the guts to say that!


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## Wotan (May 20, 2007)

houskamp said:


> FF for comercials? never used it.. 30 sec slip is what I use for comecials.. ff is for getting way into the program..


Yeah, I know. I've tried both. One too many 30-sec-skips and I'm spending WAY too much time backing up to where I need to be. So what's the best workaround? I do 4 or 5 30-second-skips, then 1x or 2x FF til I'm there. That's about the best way I've found. You gotta admit, it's pathetic.

If there's a better way, I'm all ears...


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I just hit it a couple of times.. then if I see a comercial starting I smack it again.. works for me


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Well, an undefended statement has no defense and as such can't be argued. In my mathematics classes if I didn't show my work, I failed the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Well said. I think you and I must have had the same math teachers in school. :hurah:


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> I'm sorry mganga is having problems and I hope he can find satisfaction in some way.
> 
> But as usual these types of threads go absolutley nowhere and are not all productive.


You got that right HDTV *slap*


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Wotan said:


> Don't feel too bad, mganga. MY HR20 DID record the season finale of Lost ( 2 hours! ) but navigating past all the commercials with the stinking barely-functional FastForward drove me out of my alledged mind! Just got this HR20-100s last week and the FF is every bit as bad as they say it is.
> 
> Aside from recording, FF is the single most critical function of a DVR. Get it right or dagnabbit get outta Dodge. This machine is generating a crapload of bad press for DirecTV. I can say that can't I? Crapload?
> 
> Crapload. Crapload. Crapload.


Bad press? Guess you haven't seen the s-storm the series 3 tivo is causing.

As for FF, it is a bit jerky I'll admit. But I just hit it twice and I zip by the ads without a problem.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Bad press? Guess you haven't seen the s-storm the series 3 tivo is causing.
> 
> As for FF, it is a bit jerky I'll admit. But I just hit it twice and I zip by the ads without a problem.


like many, I use the 30 sec & if I overshoot, a few |< and it works. I only use the >> or << to jump to ticks [mostly].


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> like many, I use the 30 sec & if I overshoot, a few |< and it works. I only use the >> or << to jump to ticks [mostly].


How much is the TIVO service/month now?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

oldguy1 said:


> How much is the TIVO service/month now?


never having had Tivo..I don't know, but the D* DVR fee is $5.99/month for all of mine.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

oldguy1 said:


> How much is the TIVO service/month now?


OMG I didn't realize how high it had become! It now ranges from $19.95 on a month by month to 8.95 on a 3 year prepay. http://www.tivo.com/2.0.plans.step.1.asp

Ouch!

Cheers,
Tom


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

oldguy1 said:


> How much is the TIVO service/month now?


It depends on how much you want to pay at once, and how many units you have.

On average $13 a month for one unit...
Then the 2nd, 3rd, is another $6 each per month.

They do have plans where you can pre-pay for multiple years which will lower it.... see www.tivo.com for the latest on their pricing for service plans.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

We have a SAT T60 and love(d) it. We bragged about it to everyone and got the inlaws one for Christmas. It was the worst thing ever. Wasn't a DIRECTIVO as they have COMCAST. It was only a single tuner, series 2 and it was pure garbage. I felt horrible and ashamed. IMO, without DIRECTV, TiVo fails.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> They had THE golden goose: Information. They couldn't make money. Most sad.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Agreed. I work in investments and met the CFO of TiVo once in a casual setting. He gave me many reasons why TiVo would survive and even thrive. Then I told him that I thought the RePlay TV software was superior because you didn't even have to push a button to skip a commercial it just knew it was there and moved forward. He correctly identified that RePlay TV would be sued and lose. This was four or five years ago. I'm actually a TiVo fan but they have not been able to capitalize on their system. And I mean capitalize in the sense of making capital. Now everybody can do what they do and they have lost their competitive edge. They will never make money and their only hope is to have a big company buy them and incorporate their software in some mass appeal device. Like DTV buying them.  If I owned TiVo stock I'd be selling and looking elsewhere for capital appreciation.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

Steve said:


> Ya. Tivocommunity has Dual mods.  /s


But are they Dual _LIVE_ moderators?


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## rbaucom (Feb 13, 2007)

AKA the long series of unfortunate events with replacement dvr's.

Look I am not trying to start a flame between Tivo users and people who clearly like the hr20-700. 
So I do appreciate the fact that D* is creating updates. I would like my third replacement unit to work.
I have resigned myself to the fact that D* has killed off Tivo. 
I have used a variety of dvr's from my Hauppauge before I had ever even heard of Tivo, to Ati, and now the new HR20-700. 
Now look at it from my perspective...If you were on your third device now and had it crashes 5 out of the 7 days. You had to check to make sure your not recording a show before you delete a show, because it will lock up on you. Would you be pleased? 

Because of lack of local TV signals here service I have went with the local cable provider, at the time they did not provide dvr’s, and I had Tivo and the units were working fine and I was using my old Hauppauge card on the local channels. My Hauppauge card which I think I got in 1997 or 1998 (it came with a web cam that hooked up to card that as a bonus that had a TV tuner on it and you could record TV. No compression here so back then at 640x860 it consumed hard drive space at a rate of 1 GB per minute. 1024x768 hard drive space consumption is like me at an all you can eat seafood buffet, its gone fast... So I was using that and the updated software that they provide to record the shows on the programs that my wife wanted from the locally broadcast ABC cbs and fox that D* can not broadcast out here.
We currently have a two hour behind feed that after petioning several times to get that fox and ABC granted us to get from California. 
Now the fact that Hauppauge still has software that runs a card that old tells you Hauppauge is a good company. It developed problems after the cats took a ball behind the entertainment system and messed up the connector. Ok now I'm in a little town now, not in big California with a fry's, CompUSA goodguys, or 500 little local shops to purchase anything and we decide to get a new card. My small best buy store has no Hauppauge card but had an Ati card. I have used them graphically so I get the unit. I should have just ordered a Hauppauge off of new egg but it’s the weekend and I usually won’t have time with the new job to install Monday - Friday. I purchase it, god oh mighty you talk about stupid software. You move the mouse and the menu bar pops up and covers half the screen, it pauses, jitters and sound glitches on every pc but my gaming pc. My old Hauppauge did not have any of these problems. I try several varieties of Linux TV distros out there thinking hey it might get better performance with Mythtv but problems such as incompatible or lack of drivers for my MS Bluetooth kb (which MS seems to have done great on), and the new Ati card (bleeding edge products always cut you so badly) just don't work.
Ati I believe is doing the same that D* is doing, they have to many board of directors and programmers who may briefly use the device, but do not USE the device like most geeks or should I say like the average TV consumer. Software built by in house people is never what the end user wants because to them it is ok if in the test environment that you do three steps/clicks procedures to get the end result. 
Yes I can speak from experience In California when doing full site replacement of pc hardware we would generally have our clients like our work so much they would want a recommendation for some programmer to do some work for them. We went through quite a few at first until we found the right fit (a pair of guys who did understand about making the client happy).
Before them I have had to repeatedly speak to the programmers that no the 3 steps are not ok they want to click the one button and have it do it for them.
For a software programmer well...they wrote the software and to them memorizing the steps is so second nature that a separate part of their brains do the task and it is as natural to them as it is to breathe.
An example of this you mouse correct? Ok use a trackball mouse for a day. You have used the mouse so long now that you do not think of it any longer, ever used a different laptop keyboard? A split ergo keyboard? Ok get my point?
Ok dish is offering a special we try it out. Their software is a different sort of I'm not sure if stupidity is to correct word that I am looking for here. Goofy perhaps? Definitely pathetic...Their 4 room special makes it sound like a dvr’s in each room. Its not. Its two boxes, one with dvr the other not. Long cable runs from one box to the other. But that’s another issue. 
The local channels had looked bad on my local cable provider, and they look equally bad on Dish. Well that is life in a small town for you, but I no longer have super la region/OC California traffic and sig alerts to put up with.
Hey the local homegrown commercials here are so corny they are a hoot. Nothing like being in you small hometown again.
Yes I have 3 different TV service providers in my house. You ought to see the hole that I had to cut to make for the cables in the master bedroom wall from the closet.
Ok my next thought is purchasing a stand alone Tivo to hook up for the local provider, get the shows my wife wants on it. But she will want a box in each room. And my programs/stations that I watch are not offered yet by our small cable company.
I just saw red yesterday when I had a show overrun yesterday and went to watch live TV to see what the 2 or 5 minute padding that I have on this show missed due to the over run. And the buffer was on a station that it had recorded on at 2:00 pm.
How could it not be on the channel that when I got home that night that was 20 minutes after the time I knew the program started so I just went to menu/ myplaylist/go there and selected my program and started it playing.
I never have noticed if it is on a different channel than what is buffering/recording because something is almost always recording and with no way to do a "easy" Tivo live TV dual buffer channel change I never really paid any attention. I usually pause what ever program is playing in PIP because it distracts me. Did not the night do this on the night that I just lost it.
Yeah now ever one can flame me because I did not notice that the PIP was not showing my program that it was recording. 
Now I will say it again:
Look at it from my perspective...If you were on your third device now and had it crashes 5 out of the 7 days. You had to check to make sure your not recording a show before you delete a show, because it will lock up on you. Would you be pleased? You know what a rb reset does when your recording a show. It leaves a gap.


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## Shrunken Head (Mar 15, 2007)

I have both the HR10Tivo and the HR20.
Each one has merits.
I wish DTV could make a hybrid that would give us the best of both worlds.
I like the Tivo instant skip ahead and reliable locating controls.
I like the Tivo dual buffers.
I like the HR20 one button push easy record.
I like the HR20 PIP.
I want the best of both worlds.


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It depends on how much you want to pay at once, and how many units you have.
> 
> On average $13 a month for one unit...
> Then the 2nd, 3rd, is another $6 each per month.
> ...


Another reason why I love my HR20.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

Yeah, tivo never has any problems... 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?searchid=2475644


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

for what it's worth


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## BJM (Dec 9, 2006)

I supported TiVo for many years, had my Series 1 box for 7 years, paid the monthly fee (not the one-time unlimited license) because I wanted to support them even in that small way. And I felt a little guilty leaving them.

I remember when my installer came to setup the HR20 (1st week of December '06), he mentioned in passing something to the effect of, "Yeah we just got some new boxes in, you're one of the first to get them." I was alternately excited and nervous, having just found DBStalk and reading about all the problems folks were having. I've been happy with the HR20 and like most folks have noted increasing stability.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

My $.02:

I LOVE my TiVos. I hated that DirecTV crippled them intentionally, so I learned enough about them to modify the software myself, and so now have 4 DirecTiVos with:

Dual 120 minute live buffers
The ability play music and display photos from my PC
Live, interactive, access to weather, lottery results and local movie theater schedules
Multi-room viewing (the ability to transfer recordings between Tivo)
Web based programming and status check
Caller ID

All using TiVo software that was pushed to the boxes almost 3 years ago.

But no matter how much I love my TiVos, the simple fact is that TiVo, the company, blew it. They failed to make it so easy to do business with them that it made no financial, technical or strategic sense to try and build your own DVR.

So, as a result, the places you can get a TiVo that fully integrates into your provider's current and near future delivery system are pretty limited. Even the few places where it does integrate successfully (i.e. the Series 3 in cable systems that actually provide reasonable Cablecard support) may be doomed since many cable systems plan to to go to switched network delivery (making Cablecards obsolete). When you see TV manufacturers dropping Cablecard slots from their new models you have to worry about a DVR that uses that technology as their interface to programming content.

At the end of the day, DirecTV decided that they could do DVR design inhouse easier/faster/cheaper/better (pick as many as you like) than continuing to rely on TiVo. You can't really blame DirecTV for making that decision, since pretty much every other multi-channel provider has made the same decision.

As I said, I love my TiVos. If DirecTV offered a HD TiVo with MPEG4 & 5LNB support, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But they don't. Right now the HR20 is the only game in town. It has its good points and its bad points. Personally, mine has been reliable. Once I got used to the different menu system, I don't have any major complaints. The only feature I REALLY miss is MRV, but the HD TiVos don't have that yet either. (Yeah, DLB would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker for me.) 

Would I still rather have a TiVo? Sure. But I'm downloading CEs and adding my feedback to the threads in the interest of helping DirecTV take the HR20 as far as they can. The reality of the world is that TiVo is going to be, at best, a niche player. Unless and until the government forces a real standard for digital tuner interfaces the best DVR option is always going to be the one sponsored by your provider. So rather than focusing on the shortcomings of that DVR vis-a-vis your favorite DVR, we need to concentrate on helping DirecTV get the HR20 to where it should be, so that we can do what we buy DirecTV for in the first place: enjoy watching TV.


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## Jon D (Oct 12, 2006)

mganga said:


> well, sorry for the lack of specifics here...i'm despondent over HR-20 not recording the season finale of Lost. My backroom SD Tivo did. Therefore Tivo is better.
> 
> In my Math classes I just had to get the right answer in order to pass.


Military MREs contain way more nutrients than a steak dinner, therefore MRE's are better.

It was probably the same way in the rest of your classes which explains this thread...


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## untouchable (Jun 24, 2006)

mganga said:


> well, sorry for the lack of specifics here...i'm despondent over HR-20 not recording the season finale of Lost. My backroom SD Tivo did. Therefore Tivo is better.
> 
> In my Math classes I just had to get the right answer in order to pass.


As an HR20 and HR10-250 owner, I am on the side of the HR20. I have 2 HR10's and 1 HR20. The HR20 flawlessly recorded the LOST season finale, but both of my HR10's didn't record the episode completely. It cut off the recording 1 hr and 2 minutes in to the showing even though I have it set to record 10 minutes past the scheduled time.

I also have random reboots with the HR10's, plus it's difficult to get a Harmony remote to control both of them without having to change the remote control ID. With the HR20, I can just access the menu and select AV1 mode on one, and DIRECTV mode on the other (If I had 2 of them) and that's it. Plus you don't have to miss portions of programs when trying to search for something else...no daily calls to be made to get software, ect...the HR20 is far superior to the current, and soon to be completely obsolete HR10-250.

Just an opinion, everyone has their right...if you love the DIRECTIVO's then that's great...but they're obsolete as far as features and HD programming is concerned.

and MRE's are not better...it's just that we had no choice but to eat them if you didn't want to starve to death. They have gotten much better over the course of time though.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

MPEG-4 or no MPEG-4?
For me it's a no brainer...


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

man_rob said:


> for what it's worth


None of the foregoing mentions the bad 6.3 (I think it was) bad software on the hr10-250's.

The was no way to drop back to a previous level unless you wanted to pay for someone to send you a CD and go through the pain in the a.. process of reloading your hard drive.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

oldguy1 said:


> None of the foregoing mentions the bad 6.3 (I think it was) bad software on the hr10-250's.
> 
> The was no way to drop back to a previous level unless you wanted to pay for someone to send you a CD and go through the pain in the a.. process of reloading your hard drive.


:lol: They don't want to mention the bad things about Tivo.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mhayes70 said:


> :lol: They don't want to mention the bad things about Tivo.


How could they under this thread's title?


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## johnck78 (Feb 19, 2007)

I loved my Tivos, Loved them. Are there features I miss ABSOLUTELY. I liked suggestions, I liked the occasional "Press Thumbs Up To Record" and of course DLBs.

Do I love my HR20? Not yet, I guess I would say I Like It a lot we are "Going Steady". Love is not quite there yet, but i sense it will.

Why? Cuz I know I'll never be able to go back to Tivo (not in the foreseeable future that is)! There are a lot of nice features to the HR-20. Some I don't like so much. Everyone raves about having the picture up in the guide and in the menus. I like this too, but come football season I won't. When I would get home around 2:00 on a Sunday, I would hit the Tivo Central button then turn the TV on, this way I wouldn't hear or see the game/score. I still don't know how I am going to deal with this.... But that was Tivo and this is HR20.

Tivo is gone, and while that makes me sad, the HR20 is getting better and that's starting to make me happy.

As a side note, do you really think sending a letter to D* calling their programmers IDIOTS, being slanderous and rude would get you anywhere? If I opened that letter I would read about the first 3 lines and throw it away thinking what an a******. IMHO


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich View Post
> Or the fact that the DTivos didn't even have DUAL Tuners, let alone Dual Buffers when they where first released.





ebockelman said:


> Kind of like the OTA tuners on the HR20.


Did anything work on the HR20 when it was release.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Only one MPEG4 HD DVR exists ... HR20.


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

some of the responses here are SO defensive--almost as if I had insulted their child--is that's what's going on here, or do people really have this much passion for their leased box?


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## Fredfa (Mar 27, 2003)

No, it seems many are just surprised by your passion against a leased box.

Many of us still love our HD TiVos and have also come to enjoy the HR20s.

I would suggest your seemingly arrogant tone and insinuation that those who don't agree with you are morons brought out some of the responses.


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

Fredfa said:


> No, it seems many are just surprised by your passion against a leased box.
> 
> Many of us still love our HD TiVos and have also come to enjoy the HR20s.
> 
> I would suggest your seemingly arrogant tone and insinuation that those who don't agree with you are morons brought out some of the responses.


i really hope i haven't insinuated that anyone on this board is a moron, and i have never intended to emote arrogance. maybe i should use more smilies . i apologize if i've offended anyone.

my intention was to merely express how much i miss my Tivo.:icon_hug:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

mganga said:


> some of the responses here are SO defensive--almost as if I had insulted their child--is that's what's going on here, or do people really have this much passion for their leased box?


As I said in my earlier post, to me, the partisanship on both sides is really strange. Neither company gives one iota about anybody here individually, yet some people take issue with anything said about their "side" as if something was directed at their mother. It is usually the same players either defending D*, no matter how obvious the fault or issue being talked about (just look at some of the HD-Lite or DLB threads), or claiming Tivo has no equal and is superior in all aspects (IMO D*'s boxes have the advantage in several areas).

Both boxes have merits and faults. The HR20 and R15 do some really neat stuff and in many areas are a great improvement. With that said, as the next generation of DVRs, I would have expected both the R15 and HR20 to take a step forward with ALL features, or at least maintain the status quo.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

Jon D said:


> Military MREs contain way more nutrients than a steak dinner, therefore MRE's are better.
> 
> It was probably the same way in the rest of your classes which explains this thread...


I once saw a kid eat three MRE's in one sitting. Had to have been over 5000 Calories.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

One undeniable difference between Tivo and the HR20 is that Tivo doesn't give a crap about what their users want. They give you a DVR, and you have to learn to like it. With the HR20, our feedback is shaping the DVR and making it better.  The DVR that was released last summer is nothing like the DVR we have today, while in all of the years I've had Tivo, it's gotten folders and a faster guide.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> One undeniable difference between Tivo and the HR20 is that Tivo doesn't give a crap about what their users want. They give you a DVR, and you have to learn to like it. With the HR20, our feedback is shaping the DVR and making it better. The DVR that was released last summer is nothing like the DVR we have today, while in all of the years I've had Tivo, it's gotten folders and a faster guide.


Exactly, I was unfortunate enough to get the HR20 back in August 2006 during it's first week of release... I hated it. I boxed it back and revisited it last December once the OTA was activated... and I haven't looked back since... I love it!!! I now have three that I received for free and they have been much more reliable than my Hr10 was at a price tag of $1000.00... I don't miss the "please wait" crap my HR10 gave me everytime I wanted it to record something.

I don't have any problems with the HR20s now. The Hr10 is dead tech to me... It won't be able to record any of the new MPEG4 HD and I have all my Hr20s networked in my home with both my computer and my girlfriend's laptop running music and pics on them. Soon we'll have VOD... time to move on and stop worrying about TiVo.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> One undeniable difference between Tivo and the HR20 is that Tivo doesn't give a crap about what their users want. They give you a DVR, and you have to learn to like it. With the HR20, our feedback is shaping the DVR and making it better. The DVR that was released last summer is nothing like the DVR we have today, while in all of the years I've had Tivo, it's gotten folders and a faster guide.


I seriously doubt that Tivo "doesn't give a crap" about what their user base as a whole wants and that D* does.

That statement has two flaws, first, D*'s version of Tivo is intentionally lacking in a number of features - by D*'s choice.

Second, with the exception of a few features, the feedback that is shaping the HR20 are features that should have been included in the first place had it either not been rushed out the door or had the proper homework been done during design and feature selection - ie, it doesn't get much more obvious than skip-to-tick and only having to push the guide button once to bring up the guide, neither of which was included initially and both still aren't included in the R15.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> One undeniable difference between Tivo and the HR20 is that Tivo doesn't give a crap about what their users want. They give you a DVR, and you have to learn to like it. With the HR20, our feedback is shaping the DVR and making it better. The DVR that was released last summer is nothing like the DVR we have today, while in all of the years I've had Tivo, it's gotten folders and a faster guide.


Jeremy,

That's not quite correct. Tivo has added a lot of new features over the years. Some of which D wouldn't let be activated on the Tivos for their service. A good example of this would be HomeNet (sharing programming between multiple Tivos in the same house).

The D unit still hasn't met the claims that D made about the unit initially. Little things like "Channels I Receive" and a fully working SLB are still missing. Other features are still buggy and may not work. If D gave much thought to their customers they wouldn't have released the HR20 in the condition they did.

Ultimately there is no choice for a D customer. You have to go with an HR20 to get the MPEG 4 content.


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## talkdj (Jan 21, 2007)

When I came back to D*(I was paying over $190/month for TW-with HS internet) I was told by the friendly D* "Sign Me Up" rep that of course you will have Tivo ( We had these just awfull SA DVR boxes). The premium package with the HR20 and MLB was well below that price. So now I have TW basic (and the internet) as a backup. The two packages together are below what I paid for just the TW stuff. Oh yeah, I get to have NFL too! My HR 20 works ok, not like my three Tivo's that I had (there in boxes right now waiting to go up on Ebay) but I can deal with it and it does a pretty good job. I am satisfied.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Ken S said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> That's not quite correct. Tivo has added a lot of new features over the years. Some of which D wouldn't let be activated on the Tivos for their service. A good example of this would be HomeNet (sharing programming between multiple Tivos in the same house).
> 
> ...


But, that's true of the other service offerings as well too. E* has it's own MPEG4 HD DVR and believe me it's FAR from perfect either. You've got no choice but to use that too.

Cable's DVR service isn't great either. Sure, you can get TiVo's series 3. But not after dropping $800 plus another $13 on top of your cable service.

Still, if given the choice of all three, I'd still take D* in a heartbeat. Not just because of the NFL package either. Of the three, D* seems to be progressing.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

raott said:


> That statement has two flaws, first, D*'s version of Tivo is intentionally lacking in a number of features - by D*'s choice.


Your statement has two flaws. It should read: "...D*'s version of Tivo WAS intentionally lacking in a number of features - BY MUTUAL CONSENT OF TIVO AND D*."

First change: "D*'s version of Tivo" is dead, done, stick a fork in it. When your unit dies, you will either leave D*, or use a non-Tivo unit.

Second change: No one held a gun to Tivo's head - they agreed to supply the software to D*. If anything, I very much suspect it was Tivo that wanted to make sure the $4.99/household/month D* DVR was a lite version of the $9.99/unit/month standalone Tivo.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

raott said:


> I seriously doubt that Tivo "doesn't give a crap" about what their user base as a whole wants and that D* does.
> 
> That statement has two flaws, first, D*'s version of Tivo is intentionally lacking in a number of features - by D*'s choice.
> 
> Second, with the exception of a few features, the feedback that is shaping the HR20 are features that should have been included in the first place had it either not been rushed out the door or had the proper homework been done during design and feature selection - ie, it doesn't get much more obvious than skip-to-tick and only having to push the guide button once to bring up the guide, neither of which was included initially and both still aren't included in the R15.


That's because the company doing the R15 platform is NDS.While the HR20 is Directv.

NDS needs to let Directv do the platform for the R15.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> If anything, I very much suspect it was Tivo that wanted to make sure the $4.99/household/month D* DVR was a lite version of the $9.99/unit/month standalone Tivo.


That's exactly what I think. People love to blame big bad DirecTV, and refuse to think that it very well could have been Tivo who didn't want to include the features.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Jeremy,

Right...they included the features in their standalones...but wanted to block it in their D units...that makes sense.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rbaucom said:


> :new_cussi
> Just to say this so far out of my (2) tivo series two units I have had one crash, the day my hard drive died..... My tivos do not do HD so the picture does not look great on my 50" Sony HD in the bedroom. On my HR20-700 it is a every other day crash and a RB reset. 2 replacement units, and yes to the people that will read every line but this one and tell me to reformat it. I have reformatted it multiple times so much so that my wife watches her shows on the tivo in the other room because this one, freezes up or misses shows or drops audio.. And I do look forward for each update. I think we should refer to the HR20-700 as "Lamo" as compared to the "Tivo" perhaps if the powers that be at DT hear the word Lamo describing their product they will either fix it or... do the right thing.
> just to clarify one point in my letter "It still can not record two shows at one time and if you attempt to delete out a program and guess what it crashes." refers to the fact while recording two shows (sometime one) and deleting out a program will cause a crash......
> 
> ...


Fred likes the "Lamo", just because it is another example of someone naming an inanimate object. When I explained to him that the name was meant to convey unhappiness he decided he did not like the name. (did you catch this, VOS?).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Fred likes the "Lamo", just because it is another example of someone naming an inanimate object. When I explained to him that the name was meant to convey unhappiness he decided he did not like the name. (did you catch this, VOS?).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jon D said:


> Military MREs contain way more nutrients than a steak dinner, therefore MRE's are better.
> 
> It was probably the same way in the rest of your classes which explains this thread...


My son spent two years in Iraq eating MREs and said most of them were pretty good. He was thirty eight years old when he went and is in great shape. I remember eating C-Rations when I was in the Navy. Spend 6 weeks at sea and they taste pretty good. Had to break into lifeboats to get them.

I like the TiVos and I like the HR20s. I would not have said that seven months ago, but D* has really improved the software to the point where I have begun to trust the HR20, but I still back everything up on SD TiVos. Mainly because of ESATA concerns which have nothing to do with D*.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


>


How come you changed your avatar?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How come you changed your avatar?


What from yesterday? 
It's the new & improved [same one, without a background].


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I remember eating C-Rations when I was in the Navy. Spend 6 weeks at sea and they taste pretty good. Had to break into lifeboats to get them.


The Air Force called them K-Rations [K-Rats]. We had them once & could have been the ones you left in the lifeboats. They were not a joy by any means, & even made our "box-nasties" look good. Too many years of them & the upscaled version [domino's].
Oh the joy of Uncle Sam. After K-rats, there was only one way MREs could go.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Right...they included the features in their standalones...but wanted to block it in their D units...that makes sense.


It makes perfect sense when you consider the fact that Tivo gets a couple bucks per month from a DirecTV subscriber, and the whole $13/month from a standalone subscriber. It wouldn't make sense for Tivo *not* to want to include extra features in the SA.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

If TiVo wanted to "exclude" DirecTV users from the features, they would not have the code in the DirecTV version of the software, and would not have cooperated (albeit unofficially) with efforts to reactivate it.

As I've previously mentioned, my DirecTV based TiVos have all of the features available on standalone TiVos with the same rev level of software - just had to hack around the disablement.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Titan25 said:


> If TiVo wanted to "exclude" DirecTV users from the features, they would not have the code in the DirecTV version of the software, and would not have cooperated (albeit unofficially) with efforts to reactivate it.


You are making an assumption again. Maybe they did it to garner goodwill from the hacking community, we just don't know.

I can make assumptions too: if they didn't want to exclude DirecTV users, they would have given them an official way to use the networking features.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

Wow this still going...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> It makes perfect sense when you consider the fact that Tivo gets a couple bucks per month from a DirecTV subscriber, and the whole $13/month from a standalone subscriber. It wouldn't make sense for Tivo *not* to want to include extra features in the SA.


It was Tivo that wanted the relationship with D...it was/is very, very important to them. The money they get from D is all money they can't get otherwise. Actually, I think way back when one (D or Tivo) of them said it was D that didn't want certain features.

But...you can believe what you want.

If D wanted HomeNet it would have been in the HR20...oh, but wait maybe a spy from Tivo infiltrated D and changed all the memos on that subject.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Drewg5 said:


> Wow this still going...


this is never going to die....
They can't even agree to disagree....


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

mganga said:


> i like the record feature.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> That's because the company doing the R15 platform is NDS.While the HR20 is Directv.
> 
> NDS needs to let Directv do the platform for the R15.


I know NDS is doing the R15, but for the consumer, it is totally irrelevant who is doing it. The fact is, the features are not there.


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

TiVO is a slow, crappy sorry excuse for a PVR. Period.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Tom_S said:


> TiVO is a slow, crappy sorry excuse for a PVR. Period.


That's tough to add to...you pretty much have things covered.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Titan25 said:


> If TiVo wanted to "exclude" DirecTV users from the features, they would not have the code in the DirecTV version of the software, and would not have cooperated (albeit unofficially) with efforts to reactivate it.
> 
> As I've previously mentioned, my DirecTV based TiVos have all of the features available on standalone TiVos with the same rev level of software - just had to hack around the disablement.


Not to make an assumption here... but the teqnique used by TiVo is very common in the Software world now...

X,Y,Z feature is there in the code, but it is disabled at a higher level.
Alomst ever modern software package is done like that now

MS-Vista for example, all the code is there for the Ulitmate Edition is there in the "Home Edition", simply disabled by the installation key..

(There are dozens ore more examples like that)


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's tough to add to...you pretty much have things covered.


Eh.. Just thought I'd liven things up. Like it needed it :lol:


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Well, here's another, but simple, reason why I like my HR10-250 TIVO so much more than the HR20---the TIVO records programs. Indeed, my HR20 had another BSOD last night and once again missed its recordings. My trusty TIVO recorded as scheduled.

DIRECTV: BRING BACK THE TIVO!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jal said:


> Well, here's another, but simple, reason why I like my HR10-250 TIVO so much more than the HR20---the TIVO records programs. Indeed, my HR20 had another BSOD last night and once again missed its recordings. My trusty TIVO recorded as scheduled.
> 
> DIRECTV: BRING BACK THE TIVO!


Then for that reason... don't bring back TiVo...
As it has missed programs for me in the past, with GSOD (Grey Screen of Death).

Eliminate all DVRS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Live TV only... until a technology can be built that is 100% , 100% of the time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Then for that reason... don't bring back TiVo...
> As it has missed programs for me in the past, with GSOD (Grey Screen of Death).
> 
> Eliminate all DVRS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Live TV only... until a technology can be built that is 100% , 100% of the time.


I want every channel hard wired into my house and recorded in full HD using analog systems so I won't miss anything.
This digital thing just isn't 100%, so we need high quality analog...where are those one inch AMPEX machines when we need them? I have a spare room or two that I can air condition for them.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

If you aren't willing to watch the show live, then obviously it wasn't all that important to you...


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Then for that reason... don't bring back TiVo...
> As it has missed programs for me in the past, with GSOD (Grey Screen of Death).
> 
> Eliminate all DVRS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Live TV only... until a technology can be built that is 100% , 100% of the time.


The BSOD on the HR20 is a frequent occurence, and not at all on my TIVOs. In fact, I never had a GSOD on the TIVOs.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> If you aren't willing to watch the show live, then obviously it wasn't all that important to you...


If that is the criteria for a show being important to me, then there is very little on TV that is important to me. I'm not going to re-arrange my life to fit the network schedules.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jal said:


> The BSOD on the HR20 is a frequent occurence, and not at all on my TIVOs. In fact, I never had a GSOD on the TIVOs.


Ever consider that you may have a physically damaged HR20?
Aka... bad hard drive, or something? if it is happening THAT frequently?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I want every channel hard wired into my house and recorded in full HD using analog systems so I won't miss anything.
> This digital thing just isn't 100%, so we need high quality analog...where are those one inch AMPEX machines when we need them? I have a spare room or two that I can air condition for them.


Gentlemen, too much caffeine today?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Ever consider that you may have a physically damaged HR20?
> Aka... bad hard drive, or something? if it is happening THAT frequently?


With all the DVRs I have and have had, I have never lost a recording. Had an ESATA go kabluey and lost several, but never straight from either a TiVo, and I have used every D* model except HD at one time or another, or an HR20.

I feel left out.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> If you aren't willing to watch the show live, then obviously it wasn't all that important to you...


I think you are missing the whole point of owning a DVR. Time shifting is a wonderful thing. Watching commercials and being at the beck and call of networks is something to be avoided. And if the program is important to you, why not save it?


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

I just bought my 3rd HR20 at CC yesterday. The first two work great and I love them, but if the one I got yesterday had been my 1st then I would have been in the POS camp. Last night everytime I selected a channel from the guide it locked up, reset from menu, RBR, reset everything did nothing to help.So I did one reset this morning and then unplugged it for an hour. It seems to be working now.

I'm not worried because I know I can call them and get a replacement if needed, but somone moving from Tivo and having a ton of problems is going to hate the HR20 and we can't blame them for that. I hope they can get their hands on a good one cause I know they would grow to love it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

joed32 said:


> I'm not worried because I know I can call them and get a replacement if needed, but someone moving from Tivo and having a ton of problems is going to hate the HR20 and we can't blame them for that. I hope they can get their hands on a good one cause I know they would grow to love it.


I went through this with my first HD receiver & D*. It wasn't a recorder, but gave me fits from the get go. Sony swapped it out I don't know how many times with the same thing.. It was the worst piece of electronics I've EVER had.
18 months later, my SAT HD-200 was replaced with the HD-300...end of problems [until MPEG-4].
FWIW: what wouldn't work right for months, has now become "Twins" that haven't missed a beat since mid Feb.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I think you are missing the whole point of owning a DVR. Time shifting is a wonderful thing. Watching commercials and being at the beck and call of networks is something to be avoided. And if the program is important to you, why not save it?


This little smiley =>  <= is occasionally used to represent a non-serious comment, for example, a comment placed in a HD DVR forum that sarcastically denigrates the need for time-shifting TV programs...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> This little smiley =>  <= is occasionally used to represent a non-serious comment...


or ==> <==


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

jal said:


> The BSOD on the HR20 is a frequent occurence, and not at all on my TIVOs. In fact, I never had a GSOD on the TIVOs.


I have had 2 hr20's since December 2006 and NEVER has a BSOD. Nor have I had any of the many problems others have had.

Could be later units were just made better than the early one, or maybe a lot of operator error.


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## Nofences (Jan 12, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Eliminate all DVRS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Live TV only...


Whoa, Whoa, Whoa....

Let's not get hasty! Just cause some people like to find things to argue about, dont punish the rest of us!

I liked my Tivo's, I like my HR20's. Each has their benefits, but I couldnt do without commercial skip and watching what I want when I want to. Some of us work during Primetime!

I say ditch em both and BRING BACK REPLAY-TV! LOL

(That last part is strictly sarcasm, please don't respond with a bunch of "even Replay-TV would be better than the HR20" comments!)


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

If I am not mistaking,, I think D* is going to launch a rocket soon to destroy 
all the D-Tivo's!!!
Code named D10. :grin:


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

BobV said:


> If I am not mistaking,, I think D* is going to launch a rocket soon to destroy
> all the D-Tivo's!!!
> Code named D10. :grin:


Yep !rolling


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> This little smiley =>  <= is occasionally used to represent a non-serious comment, for example, a comment placed in a HD DVR forum that sarcastically denigrates the need for time-shifting TV programs...


I speak American English and Electrician. At my advanced age the last thing I need is to have to learn an iconic dialect. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

You might wonder about the Electrician language. Each craft has it's own sub-language. If you were to wander into a conversation concerning an electrical problem or job, etc. being held by electricians you would have a great deal of trouble understanding what sounds like English. For instance, if I asked you to hand me an LL would you have the vaguest idea what I was talking about? I just figured out what LOL means recently.  Oh, I see how that works. :hurah:

Wait, I found a whole bunch of them.:dance01: reach: :jumpingja !pu****! :box: :listenup: :goodjob:

I must thank you for this! I shall have to tell Fred.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

oldguy1 said:


> I have had 2 hr20's since December 2006 and NEVER has a BSOD. Nor have I had any of the many problems others have had.
> 
> Could be later units were just made better than the early one, or maybe a lot of operator error.


I have often wondered about the "operator error" factor and also whether geography has something to do with it. I find it hard to believe that Earl suffers from "operator error", but have no problem attributing OE to many folks. I have a feeling that Earl's location in or near Chicago may have something to do with it. Or am I completely wrong? I am going to start looking at locations on the threads and see if I can see a pattern.

Taught adult computer classes for many years and I firmly believe that most computers are incapable of making mistakes. For instance you could spend the rest of your life trying to get Excel to give you a false answer if the correct inputs are made. Will not happen. And I realize that Excel is an application not a computer, but it is an application powered by a computer.

Computers do suffer "nervous breakdowns" if misused. If I was teaching a class in a computer lab that had 40 Dells (the college I taught at used Dells exclusively) I would be surprised to find 20 functioning. All because they were abused by students or the IT department. And no matter what was done to those abused computers they were never the same again.

Which leads me to this question to Earl: Are you doing all this beta testing on a single unit? I know several people who do beta testing on computers and they constantly have problems with a lot of their software.

What kind of TV do you have? I am relentless, I will find out.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Taught adult computer classes for many years and I firmly believe that most computers are incapable of making mistakes.


Computers *are* incapable of making mistakes. They will do exactly what they are told, every time. The problem is, the people telling the HR20 what to do (DirecTV programmers) are human, and they _can_ make mistakes.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Computers *are* incapable of making mistakes. They will do exactly what they are told, every time. The problem is, the people telling the HR20 what to do (DirecTV programmers) are human, and they _can_ make mistakes.


Unless of course they fail.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Unless of course they fail.


Well yeah. I'm assuming that the hardware is working correctly.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> Which leads me to this question to Earl: Are you doing all this beta testing on a single unit? I know several people who do beta testing on computers and they constantly have problems with a lot of their software.


You mean the CE's?

Well prior to the releae of the -100, I had two of them going...
But now I just have the one -700 and the -100...

Both of which function just fine.


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I have often wondered about the "operator error" factor and also whether geography has something to do with it. I find it hard to believe that Earl suffers from "operator error", but have no problem attributing OE to many folks.
> 
> What kind of TV do you have? I am relentless, I will find out.


I think it highly unlikely that Earl is prone to OE, except on Friday night after being out with the boys hugging a few Buds. And, being in or near Chicago makes that a good probability :lol:

His -200 is probably much older than mine.

My TV is a Toshiba 30HF83. I incorrectly stated it was a 27" set earlier.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

oldguy1 said:


> I think it highly unlikely that Earl is prone to OE, except on Friday night after being out with the boys hugging a few Buds. And, being in or near Chicago makes that a good probability :lol:
> 
> His -200 is probably much older than mine.
> 
> My TV is a Toshiba 30HF83. I incorrectly stated it was a 27" set earlier.


See how easy that was? Now if I could just remember why I wanted to know in the first place.

The other thing I am really curious about is your age. Would be a hoot if you were in your twenties and had everybody fooled all this time. And I do love a good hoot!


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

i have to say overall right now i liked my hr10 better mostly because of dual buffers and the tivo guide i like so much better. however, the hr20 does has many advantages such as the ability to go right into the guide and hit the record button on something u want to record. and the setting up a recording process is 1000 times faster than on the hr10. one thing i dont miss about the tivo is the annoying please wait clock up in the corner of the screen! also the hr10's remote seems a bit more easy to use than the hr20's but maybe it's just because it's all new to me. i have to say right now after 5days of use i would lean towards the hr10 about 60 percent and give the hr20 a 40percent in terms of a scale of how i like one over the other.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Computers *are* incapable of making mistakes. They will do exactly what they are told, every time. The problem is, the people telling the HR20 what to do (DirecTV programmers) are human, and they _can_ make mistakes.


Are we really positive that computers NEVER make mistakes? I have had some pretty strange things happen to me with various electrically powered objects. For instance, I bought a toaster (the brand escapes me) that had a "bagel" feature on it. For a while it functioned perfectly, then I noticed that some bagels were coming out burned. I watched it and it worked perfectly. I watched it toast bagels, bread, etc. and everything was toasted perfectly.

Stopped observing and just put a bagel in and left the room and came back when I heard the toaster pop. Burned bagel. Put in another bagel and watched it toast perfectly. Over a period of months I became convinced that if I observed the toaster performing it's task, the toaster worked perfectly, if I ignored it, it burned the bagel or bread. Told my wife. Showed my wife. She became convinced that I was doing something to the toaster to make it behave differently whenever I wanted it to.

Showed my fifteen year old son. With perfect logic he said "so watch it". I explained to him that there was no logical reason for this to happen. He said, "so you think the toaster is possessed?". He then proceeded to tell his friends about the "possessed toaster".

That happened two years ago. I threw the thing out and bought a new toaster and have had no problems since.

My point is that we don't know what these things are capable of. I believe a computer is pretty close to perfect, but how do you explain that toaster?

I have a lot of strange electrical stories that nobody has ever been able to explain to me. Other electricians, electrical engineers, etc. Stymied.

Not trying to start an argument, by the way. Your comment just piqued my interest.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I believe a computer is pretty close to perfect, but how do you explain that toaster?


I have no idea, but I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explaination. Your study of it never went beyond watching/not watching, so there isn't any real data to look at.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Should have given the toaster to Fred.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You mean the CE's?
> 
> Well prior to the releae of the -100, I had two of them going...
> But now I just have the one -700 and the -100...
> ...


Just curious. I used to know a guy who did a lot of beta testing of apps and things for Macintosh and he was always getting new computers from Macintosh because the beta testing screwed up the Macs to the point where they wouldn't work properly. Hard to screw up a Mac. We always assumed that Macintosh was minutely examining the old screwed up Macs he sent back when he got the new replacement.

Seems curious that I have never had a blank recording. And I have had 14 units in the last 7 months. New and refurbs. Never have had one unit longer than a month or two. Do other guys who do this beta testing (or what ever you call the pre-released upgrade) have the same experience with blanked out recordings?

We never did find out why the beta testing screwed up the Macs. The guy that was doing it could not speak at our level of computer knowledge. He was way out there, but he could make a Mac sing.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Should have given the toaster to Fred.


Can you think of why that would happen?

Fred awaits Jennie.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Nope... at least not in my case.

I am on the exact same system I got in early August (the one that the review was done on).... I have never done a full system format on it.

It has been my primary DVR since early September...

And I think in the 9 months, I have had one blanked out recording... and it has been a very long time (pre 2007), since I had that.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

rich584 said:


> ...I became convinced that if I observed the toaster performing it's task, the toaster worked perfectly, if I ignored it, it burned the bagel or bread...


The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applied to bagels!

The observer is part of the system, and can not help but have an influence upon the system. IOW, the act of observing changes the behavior BECAUSE of the observation.

This may also explain why one person has great success with the HR20, while others have no end of trouble.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> I have no idea, but I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explaination. Your study of it never went beyond watching/not watching, so there isn't any real data to look at.


Oh, I did take it apart and even went so far as to run resistance checks on the coils and took voltage readings of various components. Everything worked and rang out perfectly. The coil resistances on both sides of the four slice demonic device was identical, there were no random voltage spikes. There is really not much to a toaster, you know. Pretty simple device. I had that evil thing completely apart, put it back together and the same thing happened. My wife and son observed the same thing I did on multiple occasions.

Can you think of anything else I could have done? This has been bothering me for over two years now. I hated giving up and dumping it. But after a while...

VOS, what do you think?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nope... at least not in my case.
> 
> I am on the exact same system I got in early August (the one that the review was done on).... I have never done a full system format on it.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I thought I read somewhere on this thread that you had experienced multiple blank recordings, must have been someone else. My apologies.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> Sorry, I thought I read somewhere on this thread that you had experienced multiple blank recordings, must have been someone else. My apologies.


It is possible that I did... but it has been 9 months.... and I can only clearly recall one, as it was a "mid-season" finalle... so I had to go hunt for it.

But it has been a LONG time, since I have had another one.... and that includes the fact that I have increased my usage of the HR20 over the last 5 months...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applied to bagels!
> 
> The observer is part of the system, and can not help but have an influence upon the system. IOW, the act of observing changes the behavior BECAUSE of the observation.
> 
> This may also explain why one person has great success with the HR20, while others have no end of trouble.


Very impressive! I was going to go into that, but I didn't want to go too deep. The cat in the box, is it dead or alive? Only observation can answer that, but does it affect the cat? Quantum physics and Quantum mechanics are fascinating, are they not? Einstein hated them. Contradicted too many of his theories. Know what a Necker Cube is?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> VOS, what do you think?


Spring tension on the release catch. Mine had a thermal release that was my variable.
Staring at it "warmed" it sooner...as I was "heated" over how it worked. :lol:


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