# Dish Network Feb 9th Tech Forum Summary



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The DBSTalk.com Dish Network Tech Forum Summary, Monday February 9, 2004. 
Text of this post is Copyright 2004 Mark Lamutt and DBSTalk.com

Welcome to the Dish Network Technical Forum with your hosts Mark Jackson and Dave Kummer! Let’s get started!

One heck of a show planned tonight! Special guest from Dolby Labs, and lots of times for questions. Highlights from CES, HD – What is it?, Features & Updates, Special Guest!, Trivia Giveaway and finally Q&A.

Call 1-888-621-2078 with questions!

Entire 2nd half of show for questions! Woo-Hoo!

First off – CES 2004 highlights. Roll the video! Looking at the Dish booth. Just like the pictures that were posted here. And of course, the giant cable pig. CES was all about HD. New televisions – LCD, LCOS, DLP. Everything’s getting bigger! 

So, what’s different about HD? Picture shape – HD is 16x9 vs SD being 4x3 aspect ratio. Great for movies and sporting events. Picture Quality – about 2 million pixes in HD, Audio Quality – Dolby Digital 2.0 and 5.1 audio. 

Let’s welcome our special guest – Oren Williams from Dolby Laboratories. Description of Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. Dave lists all of the Dish channels that have Dolby Digital sound. What do you need to listen to Dolby Digital sound? Why, a Dolby Digital receiver (amplifier) of course! 

(I should have been the guest tonight – everyone already knows this!)

What’s the future of Dolby technology? Have systems now that provide more than 5.1 channels. More channels in DD5.1. A lot of big events through the year are now in 5.1. 

(Doesn’t everyone have at least DD5.1 these days?)

Now talking about Dolby 7.1. New tech called Dolby ProLogic 2x which will provide 7.1 sound from 2 channel audio. That sounds pretty cool.

Dave now asking about the audio popping when HD switches between national and local feeds. Still developing ways for the switching to not audible – it’s a broadcaster problem, not a receiver problem. 

Now talking about Dolby ProLogic 2 – Owen has props that he’s using for his explanations. Actually, he’s really not that bad of a guest. He’s presenting his information pretty clearly for the average user who’s not a tech geek…of course, pretty much only tech geeks watch the tech forum, right? 

Question time! Mark (no, not me!) on the phone – has a 7.1 system. Will Dish support 7.1 audio in the future? 

Answer – there isn’t much 7.1 content out there at the moment. Sending the 5.1 signal to a 7.1 system, the system should decode the full 7 channels.

Jeff O’Neil via email – will my DD5.1 decoder will work still with all of the future audio formats? Is DD5.1 on the way out? 

Answer – DD5.1 isn’t going anywhere for a long time to come.

Mike on the phone – how important is the 6th channel in a surround system? What type of speaker should I get?

Answer – Ideal situation for surround sound is matching speakers all the way around. Dolby Digital EX started with SWI. If a movie is made in that format, you want to listen to it in that format. 

Pat Milligan via email – Always leave my receiver on Dolby ProLogic all the time regardless of audio source. OK?

Answer – Dolby ProLogic and ProLogic 2 designed to take 2 channels and make more channels available. It’s improving your 2 channel source.

Betty on the phone – Surround speakers mounted on stands at ear level or brackets on the wall – which better?

Answer – whichever is more practical. Either way can work with good acoustic properties. The space needs to be livable, so solution that works best for your home.

Dave question – expensive optical cable necessary, or will cheap one work?

Answer – recommends starting with what you can afford. Get it hooked up first. Sound quality excellent with either cable. Both cables will work exactly the same.

Dave now talks about the models that have optical outputs – 501, 508, 510, 522, 721, 6000, 811, 921, 4900. DVR products record DD when recording a program that features DD audio.

Question from Mark Jackson – Bring us something to give away?

Answer – you bet – a home theater in a box from Samsung with Klipsch speakers.

Giveaway time! Trivia question – what bitrate do we transmit DD channels on Dish Network?

That’s it for Owen Wilson. Thanks for stopping by! Now watching Dolby ad video.

So, now more HD receivers! 2 new HD receivers – the 811 and the DishPlayer DVR921.

Features – both receiver SD and HD programming, both receive OTA signals, analog and digital outputs. 921 has 250GB drive – 180 hours of SD and 25 hours of HD recording. Also records OTA broadcasts. Two tuners, PIP for SD. 

Available now in bundled packages. 811 bundle is 811 receiver and 34” directview or 40” rear projection HDTV and Dish 500 or Superdish all for $999.

For only $600 more, get the 921 bundle – same except has 921 instead of 811. $1599.

1 year programming agreement to AT60 and 1 year for HD Pak.

921 only device recording satellite and OTA on the market today! (yeah right – I have 2 others in my house that have been working great for OTA for almost 2 years now!)

Software upgrades come from satellite. FREE! Receiver must be powered off. Receiver must be plugged into outlet and connected to satellite feeds. Software upgrades coming down all the time to fix BUGS!

New game service – PlayJam! Video overview showing now. Showing PONG! Woo-Hoo! Getting lots of subscribers! DishHome Interactive Page.

Let’s give away a HD bundle! Biggest prize ever given away! What was the first receiver Dish Network ever put out with optical output?

Winner for first trivia question – Richard from Michigan! Answer was 384 kbps. Congrats Richard – he was in the DBSTalk Chat!

Questions on the 811 – dark picture, aspect ratios, guide for 2 days instead of 1 hour – when fixed? 

Answer – dark picture only on SD outputs. Software fix for that in March. End of Feb – software update for 2 day guide. Working on aspect ratios – March release. Working on user interface for changing HD vs SD.

Ryan on the phone – uh oh lost him.

Larry Huffy – when EPG search feature added 

Answer – end of March release with guide release.

Ronny Moore – When patch timer problem so I can record?

Answer – end of Feb release.

George – why can’t I get channel 100 with my Dish500 dish?

Answer – your receiver doesn’t support OpenTV.

Another caller – Allen (our very own A_Noland!) – Has a 921. What’s the schedule for fixing the more popular bugs? Aspect ratios, 2 OTA channels can’t record?

Reynee – software program manager – release end of next week hopefully to fix instability issues and aspect ratio issues. (I talked to Reynee on the phone earlier today!)

Brent – I’d like to have the 322 to record and watch different channels at the same time. What’s the cost to upgrade to Dish500? 

Answer – 322 is only available in lease program right now. $99.95 with no commitment, or 1 year to AT60 and CCAutopay to get it for free.

Russell on the phone – what’s the difference between DLP, LCD, plasma, and which is best?

DLP – Digital Light Processor from Texas Instruments. Bunch of small mirrors in silicon. No burn, great contrast ratios, great resolution, each mirror is a pixel element. Either rear projection DLP or front projector DLP. One of the brightest out there.

Plasma – great picture, expensive, buzz at high altitude, usually have fans, great picture and viewing angles.

LCD – new technology coming into larger sizes now. 50” at CES this year. Save tech as flat panel displays on computer screens. Sometimes a little slow, so have smears with fast motion. Will have to replace lamp eventually.

Sounds like a future tech forum topic!

Reginald on the phone – what is Dolby Digital ES?

Oren – there is no Dolby Digital ES, it’s EX. DTS is ES. It’s another audio format. Oren can’t say DTS because he works for Dolby…Jan Johnson thinks he’s talking about the Sony ES receivers…

Paul – DVR510 questions. Can the unit be programmed not to record? It’s connected to a computer, so I don’t care about recording with it. How about named based recording? How about being able to protect weekly recording?

Dan Minnick – 510 is always recording, and not possible to turn it off. Most people want to use it as DVR product. Think about getting a 301 or 311. Working on it now, start rolling it out mid-year. Also add protect weekly timers mid year with the named based recording.

Rheese? – have 501 and 508, anyway to expand hard drive? There’s a port on the back.

Answer – there is an expansion port on the back, but we don’t support adding. We have to qualify the quality of the drives before they are installed, so we don’t let you do it yourself.

Michael – 522 question, can’t get ch100?

Dan Minnick – available on 522 in the next few weeks. Slow rollout as usual.

Jim on the phone – something about do I need a DD receiver?

Oren – what you have now is an excellent way to listen to content.

Winner of HD Bundle – Jeffrey Novak! Answer JVC-HMDSR100

Larry Gilbert – when dpp44 switch?

April/May timeframe.

That’s all the time we have folks! Thanks to Oren for being here. Be sure to tune into the Charlie Chat on March 8th at 9PM EST! Thanks for joining us tonight!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

That had to be one of the best Tech Forums in the last few years. Oren from Dolby Labs did an excellent job as did all the Echostar folks.


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## IanF (Jan 13, 2004)

> Rheese? - have 501 and 508, anyway to expand hard drive? There's a port on the back.
> 
> Answer - there is an expansion port on the back, but we don't support adding. We have to qualify the quality of the drives before they are installed, so we don't let you do it yourself.


"Qualify the quality of the drives"?! :nono2: Sheesh...


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Another caller - Allan - Has a 921. What's the schedule for fixing the more popular bugs? Aspect ratios, 2 OTA channels can't record?


Can't believe I got through for this one.


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## stickyfingers (Jan 7, 2004)

Basically "we put the port on so that you'd buy it - but you didn't actually expect us to make it functional did you?"

Wonder what the over/under is on when the much beloved firewire will be active on the 921..? 

Brian


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Alright!!! Name Based Recording!!! This is something that people have wanted the most on the DVR's, or did we misunderstand what they said and they mean that you can rename your recording instead of recording it based on the name of the show?


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## IanF (Jan 13, 2004)

> Basically "we put the port on so that you'd buy it - but you didn't actually expect us to make it functional did you?"


There are times when DISH reminds me of a girl I tried to date in high school. Come to think of it, she never showed up for an "811 install date" either...


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Congrats on getting through Allen, and sorry I misspelled your name in the summary. When I was typing it up, I was wondering if that was you.


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## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

I think it's PATHETIC when paid "professionals" don't know what they are talking about. When doing th recap on what channels dish provides in 5.1 dolby that state that espn broadcasts that way.......they DO NOT!!

Why can't the tech guys even get that right.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Thanks for the recap Mark......:righton:


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## wdingus (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm pretty sure he meant being able to record "by name" instead of just time slot. More like TIVO it sounds like...

Too bad the contests were both phone-in, continuous busy signals for me. Had email all setup ready to go in hopes they'd accept contest submissions that way. They used to and I won an HBO leather jacket from them that way  Faster with the mouse clicks than the phone dialing... I knew both answers too!

Something I've emailed them before each of the past 3 or 4 so chats. I'd love to see a ReplayTV'ish feature. I'd like to login to the dishnetwork.com site and instruct my 508 to record something for me while away from the receiver. Sending this instruction to my specific receiver shouldn't be a big deal.. Man I wish they'd add that. The name-based recording hopefully will be a nice upgrade though.


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## FaxMan (Oct 14, 2003)

I got so pissed of after they announce that 811s and 921s are 'available', I got on the phone and spent the next hour venting my spleen and writing the following e-mail to [email protected] (for what good that will do)...



While watching the tech-chat tonight, I became very upset when they announced that "811s and 921s are available".

Based upon my experience and the experience of hundreds of people across the country, there is no dealer in the country that has even 1 921 available for immediate shipping.

I called into the chat to ask for a clarification and/or a retraction. Of course, they did not want to take my call on the air.

I was transferred to a nice gentleman who did his best to tow the company line, then on to Stephanie who INSISTED that there were 921s available, but refused to give me the name of even one dealer who I could contact.

I then spoke with Chuck who suggested I go to www.vssll.com and said they had units available. It just so happens that I wired $1,000 to vssll on January 5 and have been second in line for the next units he gets.

{snip - I removed specific comments from vssll}

Does this mean availability?

I have also placed orders via my local retailers, www.dishstore.net, www.dishdepot.com, www.dishking.com, and have talked to a number of others.

Every dealer responding at www.dbstalk.com, www.satteliteguys.us, and www.avsforum.com have said that NOBODY has seen a new shipment in almost two weeks.

Does this mean availability?

I know that there are some bugs in the 921. I am willing to accept that and join the ranks for the beta testers.

I would have been fully satisfied if the guys on the tech-chat simply bit the bullet and gave a truthful apology for the LACK of availability, the reasons for the lack, the steps being taken to correct them, and the realistic availability of the 921s. That's just good business.

Does Echostar hope to win in this business through blue-smoke-and-mirrors. I really hoped they would not. I really thought the Echostar and DishNetwork, and Mr. Ergen were in the business to provide the best, most honest service to their customers and stockholders.

Apparently, I was drastically mistaken... Or fooled.

Somebody please prove me wrong. Find me 1 dealer anywhere in the country that can ship me a 921 tomorrow. I'll pay for the unit and offer a $100 reward for the information. Likewise, if that mysterious dealer can not be located, I would like dish to issue a $100 credit to my account and/or send me a loaner HD receiver that I can use until the 921s actually become available as stated.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

I'm sure that you have been inundated with similar tirades.


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## stickyfingers (Jan 7, 2004)

FaxMan said:


> I got so pissed of after they announce that 811s and 921s are 'available', I got on the phone and spent the next hour venting my spleen and writing the following e-mail to [email protected] (for what good that will do)...


I felt exactly the same thing. After waiting nearly 7 weeks for my 811 and seeing post after post from folks who are 4 - 9 weeks into waiting for an 811 (nevermind a 921) I almost pooped myself when they started promoting the 811/921 w/the attitude of "order one today we'll get it right over." I called but couldn't get through - so I gave up. I'm doing my best to let E*'s shenanigans not get my ire - otherwise I'd just be pissed all the time.

Brian


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

lionsrule said:


> I think it's PATHETIC when paid "professionals" don't know what they are talking about. When doing th recap on what channels dish provides in 5.1 dolby that state that espn broadcasts that way.......they DO NOT!!
> 
> Why can't the tech guys even get that right.


Actually, ESPN HD is 5.1 when they do HD.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No they aren't. ESPN broadcasts in circle surround.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

It's sad that they can't say DTS. What's the big deal answer it and more on. We know they're not that stupid.

"Have the Qualify the Hard Drive" - So what? Qalify a few hard drives. They obviously know the list of drives they're all ready using. Supported external hard drive expansion would be a huge advantage (especially on the 921).

Named Based Recording - WOW !!! I wonder if this has anything to do with the current TiVo suit? It'll be great if they come through with this one.

921 Software next week - Seems unlikely if they're just going into Beta.

They have the only HD PVR - Sheesh - How long has that Zenith been out? And considering how many recordings the 921 misses, I'm not sure I would even count it.

Nothing like talking about a bunch of equiptment that no one can get. That should piss off lots of people when they call in to get put on the wait list.


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## fslove (Sep 14, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The DBSTalk.com Dish Network Tech Forum Summary, Monday February 9, 2004.
> Text of this post is Copyright 2004 Mark Lamutt and DBSTalk.com
> 
> 921 only device recording satellite and OTA on the market today! (yeah right - I have 2 others in my house that have been working great for OTA for almost 2 years now!)


You don't have 2 others in the house recording High Def off satellite AND OTA like the 921 does, which is what they are talking about.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I have also placed orders via my local retailers, www.dishstore.net, www.dishdepot.com, www.dishking.com, and have talked to a number of others.


What are you going to do when they all come in and ship to you at the same time (including the one you ordered from me)?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Considering the Dishwire is THE most requested feature on the 921 to get activated yet, How come no Dishwire question answered? 

When will Dishwire be activated?
When will Dishwire be activated?
When will Dishwire be activated?
When will Dishwire be activated?

Anyone out there hear this?
When will Dishwire be activated?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Glad they announced to all that the next software upgrade will be out end of next week. Looking forward to it. Where are our insider reports? Used to be we would get word on this before annoucement on a public chat show. Maybe the date was just made up to put off the question.

I feel for all who can't get the 921. Something is fishy about the availability. I think the only thing that will make the 921 available will be the release of the HDTIVO! Of course, when that happens who will care about the 921 unless it has the bugs fixed and the Dishwire active. Dishwire active will be the only thing that the 921 will have over the HDTIVO. But, it has to work! When will Dishwire be activated? Biggest disappointment of the Tech Chat! When will Dishwire be activated?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Richard- Do you get your 921's from Dow? If you do, I have a funny story for you. ie. how I got my 921.


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## FaxMan (Oct 14, 2003)

Richard King said:


> What are you going to do when they all come in and ship to you at the same time (including the one you ordered from me)?


Probably jump up in the air and click my heels! :hurah:

And/or help take care of some other poor slob in the same situation.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Considering the Dishwire is THE most requested feature on the 921 to get activated yet, How come no Dishwire question answered?
> 
> When will Dishwire be activated?
> When will Dishwire be activated?
> ...


Who cares, just how many out here have a jvc hd vcr anyway? I bet not many, which equals low priority.

Ken


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I couldn't believe Mark & Dave were "promoting" the 811/921 HD receivers, thus creating an even greater demand for products that are essentially unavailable. What a great way to pizz off even more people.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Available now in bundled packages. 811 bundle is 811 receiver and 34" directview or 40" rear projection HDTV and Dish 500 or Superdish all for $999.
> 
> For only $600 more, get the 921 bundle - same except has 921 instead of 811. $1599.


Did they indicate if this was for existing subscribers or not? I still haven't been able to find any dealer that can order this for existings. All I want to do is get on the waiting list -- and no one seems able to do it for me.

For those that don't know, I've been following this "deal" since the press release in early January (which said that the deal would expire at the end of January, even though you couldn't order it). After many discussions with various people, I finally spoke with Marc Lumpkin -- the guy that WROTE that press release -- and he said that existing customers would be able to order the HDTV w/921 package for $1599 by February 3rd -- which was a week ago, of course -- and I still can't find anyone that knows anything about it so that I could even get on a waiting list...

So, I'm just curious if they seemed to be restating that that deal was for existings subscribers -- before I call to start hounding Dish again. 

- John...


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## wiz (Jan 10, 2003)

"who has HD VCRs anyway" More than you think, me for one. I can record offair HD on my Mits 55613 right now, but Dish's HBO and Sho are what we want. I won't buy any more HD products without "firewire being active".


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

I think his point is that there are so few HD VCR owners out there that the priority of that feature is well below, say, OTA bugs. A lot more people want OTA than own HD VCRs...

- John...


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## stickyfingers (Jan 7, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> ...When will Dishwire be activated?


Right around the same time the included firewire port gets activated on the other units...  It's only a couple years into waiting on that one right?

Brian


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

kstevens said:


> Who cares, just how many out here have a jvc hd vcr anyway? I bet not many, which equals low priority.
> 
> Ken


I have two D-VHS's and I have been waiting a year for the unit and it's "dishwires" outputs, I have an HD D-VHS recording system for about 3 years now via a 5000 receiver decoder box and a Panasonic D-VHS SO I have known about it's possibility for years, 
I will be really happy when my 921 HD content canbe exported to my JVC's,
Anyone know when?
Alex


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## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

MikeW said:


> Actually, ESPN HD is 5.1 when they do HD.


I just saw mark's suporting remark....but to reinforce it. Sorry, but you are wrong. ESPN does NOT broadcast in 5.1 even when in HD. Anyone who says otherwise is uninformed. Simply check your receiver when viewing espnhd and it will NEVER display dolby digital.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

FaxMan said:



> I got so pissed of after they announce that 811s and 921s are 'available', I got on the phone and spent the next hour venting my spleen and writing the following e-mail to [email protected] (for what good that will do)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077604585&category=32845

Ah just send the $100.0 to a charity


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Are you all glad that every one is so civil around here?


Ken


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

WTF is Circle Sound? I just got my DD 5.1 surround system not 2 years ago!!!


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## stickyfingers (Jan 7, 2004)

ehren said:


> WTF is Circle Sound? I just got my DD 5.1 surround system not 2 years ago!!!


It's actually Circle *Surround* - and it's cheating. It's not true 5.1 - it can take a *stereo* source and "steers" it to the rest of the channels. It's another matrix encoding audio technology like DPLII. Discrete 5.1 is always better.

Brian


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2004)

Is ESPN set on CS? Or will they switch to DD5.1 when they have their digital facilities up and running?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

ESPN is set on CS - at least that's what they've said.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> ESPN is set on CS - at least that's what they've said.


Well it's official then. ESPN HD does suck.


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

gpflepsen said:


> Well it's official then. ESPN HD does suck.


I agree nothing of much on there in HD. Discovery HD is great. No upconverting there


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

stickyfingers said:


> It's actually Circle *Surround* - and it's cheating. It's not true 5.1 - it can take a *stereo* source and "steers" it to the rest of the channels. It's another matrix encoding audio technology like DPLII. Discrete 5.1 is always better.
> Brian


Several networks use _Circle Surround_ as a comperable but lower cost alternative to _Dolby Surround_. It's not cheating. But it isn't digital (to start) & it isn't discrete.

Obviously ESPNHD is using the same mix as the SD feed for now. But maybe when they convert their studio to HD (supposedly by April according to an announcement last year) they will go DD.

On the other hand, they may figure that for sports presentations it isn't that big of a deal.

BTW, discrete 5.1 isn't _always_ better. For one thing, it depends on who is doing the mix and how good they are at doing it. For another thing, DD 5.1 is a lossy compression scheme and can actually sound inferior to a good analog matrix decoder with fast variable digital steering logic.

You may be aware that DPL and DPL II are actually licensed from Jim Fosgate (patents for variable-speed digital servo logic) and Peter Scheiber (patents for matrix surround) by Dolby Labs and then relicensed by Dolby Licensing Corp. to the manufacturers of their simpler IC version.

Fosgate's own surround processors were the first to offer full-range surround for up to 7 channels and 4 subwoofers without any compression, lossy or otherwise, with the audio staying Class A analog throughout controlled by the fastest and most precise digital steering logic available.

When HK bought the _Fosgate_ company some years back and changed the brand name to _Citation_ they did an interesting demo at CES comparing the rear channels from a DD5.1 soundtrack to those derived by their (then) new Model 7.0 from 2-channel analog (on good speakers, etc.) As you may expect the uncompressed non-lossy analog sound was quite superior.

I get to hear all the channels, as well as the rest of my sources, this way every day through my good old Fosgate Model Four Preamp-Processor. In fact, the only reason I'll be changing it out soon is that I'm about to get a DVD Audio/SACD player which will require a new pre-pro with 5.1 external inputs.

Yes, I realize I'm a bit antiquated & nit-picky but digital isn't always better. It's just digital.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

wdingus said:


> ... I'd love to see a ReplayTV'ish feature. I'd like to login to the dishnetwork.com site and instruct my 508 to record something for me while away from the receiver. Sending this instruction to my specific receiver shouldn't be a big deal.. Man I wish they'd add that. The name-based recording hopefully will be a nice upgrade though.


I think transmitting user-created instructions via the sat feed might be non-trivial :sure:

However, you should be able to put this together with one of those new-fangled smart remotes and/or a IR transmitter on your PC. Somebody's got to have that out there aready. If not, somebody should be able to make some $$$ doing it. Hmmm.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

stickyfingers said:


> It's actually Circle *Surround* - and it's cheating. It's not true 5.1 - it can take a *stereo* source and "steers" it to the rest of the channels. It's another matrix encoding audio technology like DPLII. Discrete 5.1 is always better.
> 
> Brian


I beg to differ. My Sony STR-DE695 does some amazing things with 2 channel sound, and if the content producer doesn't put anything on the other 2-3 channels (fairly often so far as I can tell), the surround is "dead" - much worse than "faking" surround in the receiver.


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