# Stupid CSR tricks!



## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

I decided to try once again to get my dish 500 and wing dish on 61.5 replaced with an eastern arc setup so I can get my locals in HD (Jacksonville, FL DMA--HD locals are only available on eastern arc, 110,119 and 61.5 only carries the locals in SD). The first time I tried this was a dismal failure. The installers did not show twice, first time gave not reason other than they had to reschedule, second time I was told that they had not been trained on how to install a 1000.4 dish! Give me a break, how hard is it to mount the dish and aim it, no matter what the satellite orbitals! Since I had to miss work both times for the canceled appointments (between work and school I was going 7 days a week then with no days off) I was a bit mad, to say the least. Long story short, I ended up getting a free month's service and $50 credit to my account over a 10 month period ($5/month).

Well, I was talking to the first CSR who barely spoke English. He told me that he would transfer me to tech support to set it up and I was disconnected. I called back. 2nd CSR told me that I could not get eastern arc since that was only for new customers and not available in my area but that I just needed a new 1000.4 dish! I tried to explain to him that the 1000.4 dish WAS eastern arc! He argues with me and once again insisted that eastern arc was not available in my area. :new_Eyecr I said, "fine. whatever, just set me up for the 1000.4 dish.":beatdeadhorse:

Later that evening I needed to call Tech support for something unrelated (my 622 somehow deactivated itself whilst it was not connected for a few weeks while I was doing some remodeling in my house. It had become a 622-SD for some reason. Even the tech was not sure why but got me fixed up. ) 
While I was waiting for one of the reboots that the unit had to go through I told him about my experience with the CSR earlier. He started to laugh and apologized. He commented on my knowledge of the equipment they offer (I told him I used to be a broadcast engineer back in the 70's) and admitted that some of the CSRs really do not know that much about the equipment. He asked me if I wanted a job because they were always looking for good techs!

Makes you wonder how a company can stay in business with such horrible customer service!

I also asked about the new HD channels that *didn't* air April 1st and the tech basically said that it came from 'high up' and he couldn't really talk about it. He was a bit tongue tied and tripping over his words so I think that something is going on with that they do not want the customers to know!


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

Lousy customer service is one of several reasons I dumped DISH for U-verse. DISH has become the trailer park of television.:nono2:


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

^^^ Re. U-Verse; Dude, I'm not going to say Dish customer service is good, but have you yet tried AT&T's? OMG. I have AT&T cell phone, as well as U-Verse internet.

Best of luck if you ever need CS, wow. They define bad CS.

Besides, I fail to see how CS would be a determining factor in which TV service you choose, when normally it's not something that even comes into play except rarely. I've had to contact CS a total of one time during my three years of having Dish, so it's not like it's something that has to be done often, unless you are the type making lots of changes all the time, never satisfied, etc.

The sad truth is ALL CS sucks nowadays, so I can't see that being much of a determining factor.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

ZBoomer said:


> Besides, I fail to see how CS would be a determining factor in which TV service you choose, when normally it's not something that even comes into play except rarely. I've had to contact CS a total of one time during my three years of having Dish, so it's not like it's something that has to be done often, unless you are the type making lots of changes all the time, never satisfied, etc.
> 
> The sad truth is ALL CS sucks nowadays, so I can't see that being much of a determining factor.


Well said. Cingular (ok, now AT&T) will forever, always, be on my worst CSR list. And because I get excellent signals wherever I go and like my Smartphone I do not switch providers. 
When I had Charter Internet, they might be second worse. Now have had AT&T DSL and they have been quite good the two times I had to call.
Had Dish since about 1988 or so. Have called a handful of times, one stands out as horrible service, the others run of the mill.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Here's the issue: it IS in fact Dish policy that 1000.4 dishes and Eastern Arc are for NEW customers ONLY at this time. While you may escalate your issue high enough for them to override this policy, it remains the policy in force and most CSRs do not have the power to change it for you.

Also, the 1000.4 dish is quite different from previous dishes, and did in fact require training for installers. The configuration is quite unusual, and getting it pointed correctly is tricky due to the two satellites (72.7 and 77) close together and the fact that only one of the two is readable by a sat meter.

I expect that Dish will be changing their Eastern Arc policy once production of the 722k is in full swing and ViP receivers aren't in such short supply, but for now, everything you were told is correct.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

IIP said:


> Here's the issue: it IS in fact Dish policy that 1000.4 dishes and Eastern Arc are for NEW customers ONLY at this time. While you may escalate your issue high enough for them to override this policy, it remains the policy in force and most CSRs do not have the power to change it for you.
> 
> Also, the 1000.4 dish is quite different from previous dishes, and did in fact require training for installers. The configuration is quite unusual, and getting it pointed correctly is tricky due to the two satellites (72.7 and 77) close together and the fact that only one of the two is readable by a sat meter.
> 
> I expect that Dish will be changing their Eastern Arc policy once production of the 722k is in full swing and ViP receivers aren't in such short supply, but for now, everything you were told is correct.


In my DMA the locals are ONLY available in HD on the eastern arc satillites. I orginally called asking why I don't get my locals in HD as an everything pack with HD platinum subscriber (top tier!). I was told that I would be switched ot eastern arc. It seems dish is only doing this if the customer requests the HD locals (which I should be getting based on what I susbsribe to!). 
If dish were only offering new subscirbers the HD locals I would say there is a major problem! BTW, I have had a 622 and 722 for quite a while now (Have been an HD subscriber since swithing to 
Dish from cable) so I AM Mpeg4 compatible!

IF the CSRs are not familiar with the different equipment that is being used then there is a problem with their training (and I have worked second tier help desk in the past in the computer industry!)

As far as the training involced in installing the 1000.4--on my first attempt I specifically told the CSR that that would need to take the day off work so please do NOT scheldule the appointment unless they would be able to install the dish AND that they needed to bring an extra tall ladder to reach my roof (had that trouble before) and I was assured that there would be no problem! In fact, I ended up missing TWO days of work without pay and no one ever showed up! I know that is the fault of the local subcontactor but it is also the fault of Dish for not knowing what the subcontractors are actually doing.


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## scoobyxj (Apr 15, 2008)

IIRC 622's are not EA compatible as well as early model 722's, 222's, and 211's. I believe only what are called "Circle A" recievers will work for the non "k" models.

Really what you need is a 1000.2 for the HD national programming, and then point your wing dish at the 77 (or which ever bird) to get your HD locals.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

scoobyxj said:


> IIRC 622's are not EA compatible as well as early model 722's, 222's, and 211's. I believe only what are called "Circle A" recievers will work for the non "k" models.


ALL ViP receivers with the new purple smart cards are 100% compatible with EA.


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## dnero (Feb 12, 2008)

Would make Letterman thing "Stupid CSR Tricks"


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## scoobyxj (Apr 15, 2008)

Jim5506 said:


> ALL ViP receivers with the new purple smart cards are 100% compatible with EA.


I'm just going off what they keep telling us.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

scoobyxj said:


> IIRC 622's are not EA compatible as well as early model 722's, 222's, and 211's. I believe only what are called "Circle A" recievers will work for the non "k" models.
> 
> Really what you need is a 1000.2 for the HD national programming, and then point your wing dish at the 77 (or which ever bird) to get your HD locals.


Shows you don't know what you are saying since I can't get 129 where I am, which is why I have a 500 for 110 and 119 and a 300 for 61.5! IF I drop 61.5 I would lose much of my HD proramming since THAT is the bird that mirrors what is on 129! My locals are carried on 110 for SD and 77 for HD so I need to drop 110 for 72.7 AND 119 for 77 to keep receiving all the programming I pay for. So that would mean I need 61.5, 72.7, and 77 to receive my programming tier (everything pack with HD platinum) along with my HD locals that I am entitled to receive. Oh, guess what, that's eastern arc!

Also, as it's been stated, the new smartcard is all that is needed, which I have (and that is only because of the encryption changes.) EA does require all MPEG-4 compatible equipment but the 622 and 722 fit that bill.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

scoobyxj said:


> I'm just going off what they keep telling us.


who is 'they'? Are you a Dish CSR? Subcontractor? Reseller?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

"They" are mistaken.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

scoobyxj said:


> IIRC 622's are not EA compatible as well as early model 722's, 222's, and 211's. I believe only what are called "Circle A" recievers will work for the non "k" models.
> 
> Really what you need is a 1000.2 for the HD national programming, and then point your wing dish at the 77 (or which ever bird) to get your HD locals.


If the cards have been added to the earlier models then they will work. The newer ones already have the card built in.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Hate to say it, but I can buy the 1000.4 dishes with the triple LNB attached all day long for $ 90 at solid signal. So if solid signal has them in stock to sell to anybody. Perhaps there is not as big as a shortage that Dish would like you to believe. Also if you think you can handle the dish on your own or with a helper. Buy it and hook it up. Just an idea for some on the East Coast getting the run around from Dish.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> I also asked about the new HD channels that didn't air April 1st and the tech basically said that it came from 'high up' and he couldn't really talk about it. He was a bit tongue tied and tripping over his words so I think that something is going on with that they do not want the customers to know!


He was tongue tied because its an awkward question to answer, and because he simply was not told why. That's the long and short of it, the call center agents aren't being told why.



> IF the CSRs are not familiar with the different equipment that is being used then there is a problem with their training (and I have worked second tier help desk in the past in the computer industry!)


I'd say that's not quite right, and often the problem. People expect the CSR's to know all the technical details that the TSR's do, and while they do get some basic tech training, that is not really their job. They handle promotional things, programming changes, billing issues, but that's about it usually. Now yes, sometimes TSR's don't know either, but that's not for lack of training, i assure you of that.



> Hate to say it, but I can buy the 1000.4 dishes with the triple LNB attached all day long for $ 90 at solid signal. So if solid signal has them in stock to sell to anybody. Perhaps there is not as big as a shortage that Dish would like you to believe. Also if you think you can handle the dish on your own or with a helper. Buy it and hook it up. Just an idea for some on the East Coast getting the run around from Dish.


I've never heard of any shortage of the 1000.4's, but you have it more or less right. Very few people at E* can authorize a 1000.4 install for an existing customer. If you really want one that bad and not a wing dish, going through a retailer or purchasing it and installing it yourself is probably your best option.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

puckwithahalo said:


> I'd say that's not quite right, and often the problem. People expect the CSR's to know all the technical details that the TSR's do, and while they do get some basic tech training, that is not really their job. They handle promotional things, programming changes, billing issues, but that's about it usually. Now yes, sometimes TSR's don't know either, but that's not for lack of training, i assure you of that.
> 
> *Yet the CSR told me that he had to handle my request because if it were transferred to tech support I would be charged for the install.
> *
> ...


Yet the Jacksonville DMA seems to be an exception for existing HD customers who subscribe to the locals since that is the ONLY way they can get them because they ONLY exist on 77 and not on any other orbital locations. and I have been told this by both tech support and Customer support one more than one occasion. The problem I had with the CSR was they were telling me that I was not able to get Eastern Arc since that was only for new customers but if they came out and installed a 1000.4 dish it would give me my HD locals. My complaint with the CSR was that he did not have a CLUE that the 1000.4 dish is Eastern Arc and was arguing this with me, insisting that I could not get Easter Arc and it was only for new customers. Please reread my thread starter post!


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

ehb224 said:


> Yet the Jacksonville DMA seems to be an exception for existing HD customers who subscribe to the locals since that is the ONLY way they can get them because they ONLY exist on 77 and not on any other orbital locations. and I have been told this by both tech support and Customer support one more than one occasion. The problem I had with the CSR was they were telling me that I was not able to get Eastern Arc since that was only for new customers but if they came out and installed a 1000.4 dish it would give me my HD locals. My complaint with the CSR was that he did not have a CLUE that the 1000.4 dish is Eastern Arc and was arguing this with me, insisting that I could not get Easter Arc and it was only for new customers. Please reread my thread starter post!


For your situation as an existing customer, normally a wing dish for 77 would be installed, not a 1000.4. Now, your situation is a little different because you already have a wing dish for 61.5. You might be able to get a 1000.4 because of that, but that's a big might. Your best bet, if you do not want another wing dish, is to purchase a 1000.4 and have it installed by a retailer, or install it yourself.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

puckwithahalo said:


> For your situation as an existing customer, normally a wing dish for 77 would be installed, not a 1000.4.
> *Not for an existing HD customer in my DMA since in my DMA that means a dish 500 and a wing at 61.5! Also, my SD locals are on 110 which is mirrored on 72.7 and not 77 where my HD locals live so I would be receiving spot beams for both the HD and SD versions of the locals. How will that map down?*
> Now, your situation is a little different because you already have a wing dish for 61.5.
> *My situation is the same as any other existing HD customer in the Jacksonville, FL DMA that also receives locals and wants them in HD. How unique can that be? If I am the ONLY HD customer in this DMA that is subscribed to locals then Dish is in bigger trouble than anyone knows!*
> ...


Actually, they are coming out tomorrow to install the 1000.4 (and hopefully will actually show this time!) and this is what they said was what they do in my case. This is being done at no charge and with no new contract extension! I did not ask for that. It's simply how it's being done! Never once did they suggest installing another wing dish, which would present a problem with which sat will win out, the HD locals or the SD locals since both would then be present. Also, in my DMA we do not get 129 so the standard HD installation (before the HD locals went live) was a 500 with a wing dish for 61.5. The CSRs I spoke to on both occasions and also tech support on the first occasion when I wanted my locals in HD always said that I needed a 1000.4 dish, never did they say add another wing dish for 77!

My problem is that the first time I tried to do this the installers stood me up twice and and lost 2 days of work and this second time the CSR did not know that a 1000.4 dish is the same as eastern arc! It was NEVER a question of being able to get a 1000.4. In fact that was the solution that Dish suggested (NOT me) both times! In fact, the first time I tried this the tech said that all they needed to do was switch me to 'what was called eastern arc' with a different dish and was about to explain it to me but I stopped him and told him that it meant orbitals 61.5, 72.7 and 77 and that a single dish was used for it. He said that I was correct.

I am wondering what you do at Dish since your sig implies that you work for them. Are you in Tech support?
I am not sure how to make my point any clearer but you seem to feel that I am trying to have somethng done that dish does not want to do. THAT has never been the problem at all! The problem is being stood up on installation appointments after being assured that the installers would show and also by CSRs that did not really know what they were talking about. It realy just boils down to lousy customer support, which is not really anything new for Dish!


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

ehb224 said:


> Actually, they are coming out tomorrow to install the 1000.4 (and hopefully will actually show this time!) and this is what they said was what they do in my case. This is being done at no charge and with no new contract extension! I did not ask for that. It's simply how it's being done! Never once did they suggest installing another wing dish, which would present a problem with which sat will win out, the HD locals or the SD locals since both would then be present. Also, in my DMA we do not get 129 so the standard HD installation (before the HD locals went live) was a 500 with a wing dish for 61.5. The CSRs I spoke to on both occasions and also tech support on the first occasion when I wanted my locals in HD always said that I needed a 1000.4 dish, never did they say add another wing dish for 77!
> 
> My problem is that the first time I tried to do this the installers stood me up twice and and lost 2 days of work and this second time the CSR did not know that a 1000.4 dish is the same as eastern arc! It was NEVER a question of being able to get a 1000.4. In fact that was the solution that Dish suggested (NOT me) both times! In fact, the first time I tried this the tech said that all they needed to do was switch me to 'what was called eastern arc' with a different dish and was about to explain it to me but I stopped him and told him that it meant orbitals 61.5, 72.7 and 77 and that a single dish was used for it. He said that I was correct.
> 
> ...


For your situation, its not an automatic install for a 1000.4, someone went out of their way and set that up for you so you didn't have 3 dishes. Good for you on that, and on them for taking the initiative to do it. Yes, that would have meant a 500 pointed at 119, and 110, and a 300 pointed at 61.5, and a 300 pointed at 77. The reason its not automatic is because for people who don't have all Mpeg4 receivers, a 1000.4 wouldn't work. In the case that you had both the SD and HD feeds coming in, neither HD or SD locals would "win out" ; You would get both. In the case where you have the exact same channels on two satellites, for example if you had both 61.5 and 129, I believe whichever shows first in the switch test would be where the channel got drawn from, but I'd have to double-check that.

By the way, yes I am tech support. Also, I apologize for implying that your argument was about not being able to get a 1000.4. I realized you had already been set up for a 1000.4 install, i was just making a general statement about what is done in your situation normally. I just didn't phrase it very well. Lost in translation as it were.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

puckwithahalo said:


> FThe reason its not automatic is because for people who don't have all Mpeg4 receivers, a 1000.4 wouldn't work.


And what HD customer would not have all Mpeg4 receivers? I could understand if I were an HD and SD customer with an HD receiver and a SD receiver but I have a 622 and a 722. Surely this is not THAT unusual? How many customers do you think wants to have three dishes on their roof? It is not the most elegant solution and it's the type of thing that can cause customers to switch to a different service. So you are saying that the standard solution to an all mpeg4 customer in the Jax DMA that wants to get the locals in HD would be to mount a second 300 pointed at 77 if they already had a 500 and a 300 at 61.5? That option was never even discussed with me. Guess I was lucky twice!


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

Well, the installation went very smoothly, much smoother than my initial install where I was charged an extra $300 for the install by the installer because it was 'not a standard install but a custom'. This installer did not think it was a custom at all! He did say that Dish has been cracking down on some of the things that I had experience in the past such as cancelled appointments at the last minute and not having a ladder on the truck (which happened on the first call on my initial install!) He had to make some changes to the wiring because my wires were stapled in the original install and he said that is not done anymore and when they go out Dish want them to get everything "up to code" (his words). The install did not cost me anything nor did I have to sign a new contract.
I also asked the installer if the 1000.4 dish would be the standard way to upgrade survice such as mind or if a third wing dish pointed at 77 would be the standard way. He told me it would be teh 1000.4 and he has never done one with a third wing dish at 77.

All in all I am extremely pleased with how it went today.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

ehb224 said:


> In my DMA the locals are ONLY available in HD on the eastern arc satellites...


True for my DMA too, however since I already had a 61.5 dish (for Sky Angel) my HD locals came in as soon as I got my 622. In fact I never had 129! Virtually all the national HD that is on 129 is also on 61.5. Even if your locals were on 72 or 77 you could always set-up your own "wing dish" just like my 61.5 dish.


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## ehb224 (Apr 4, 2008)

Michael P said:


> True for my DMA too, however since I already had a 61.5 dish (for Sky Angel) my HD locals came in as soon as I got my 622. In fact I never had 129! Virtually all the national HD that is on 129 is also on 61.5. Even if your locals were on 72 or 77 you could always set-up your own "wing dish" just like my 61.5 dish.


I never had 129 either. My HD was on 61.5 (still is in fact). However, the installer confirmed for me that it is not standard procedure for them to install a dish 500 and 2 wing dishes for an all mpeg4 compatible customer but to install a 1000.4. The only reason they would install a second wing dish was if the customer had a mix of mpeg2 SD and mpeg 4 HD receivers. Then they would have to keep 110 and 119. This was not my situation.


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