# Boston Red Sox on WSBK



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I am a transplanted New Englander. Therefore there are few occasions so precious as when the Red Sox are on TV. The only thing more important is when I get a chance to go to Fenway itself which, as we all know, is holy ground.

I am a DISH sub. I am not going to switch to DTV. The rest of the tribe would not allow it. So please no lectures about MLB EI coverage. I would love it but it is not an option.

Earlier this year there was some speculation here and elewhere that DISH would be unable to carry the Friday night Red Sox OTA games on WSBK to those of us who have the superstations. 

My question is did anyone ever get a final reading on this? I realize the whole thing might have been speculation and that several people have always thought that the Rockies games on KWGN were not consistent with the letter of the law.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

WSBK had said they would not televise
outside the Boston DMA, except to NESN
subscribers. However, tonight's Red Sox-
Eagles exhibition game is showing on the
EPG and there is no "blackout symbol."
The same holds true for future exhibtion
games such as the Sunday 3/2 game 
vs the Twins. NESN's broadcast of the
same game is blacked out. Will this
hold for the regular season? Stay tuned.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Can you give me a link or contact point. Not sure I understand the NESN connection---since these games are not on NESN. I really thank you for the info I just dont quite understand it.

Also who are the Eagles---the BC Eagles perhaps?


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## Maniacal1 (Apr 9, 2002)

Chief, the NESN connection is that, for all the WSBK/WBZ games, NESN will broadcast them to the rest of New England outside of Boston (maybe outside the Boston DMA, but "outside of Boston" is all I've heard). 

Yes, it's the BC Eagles, whose annual exhibition game with Boston ends with tonight's game. Before this year, it was always BC, since John Harrington is BC boy. But the new ownership just announced that they will rotate the game each spring between BU, Harvard, Northeastern, and BC.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

OK. So what is the situation for those of us who have been exiled from the homeland? Can we see the games on DISH---or not? We certainly won't see them on NESN.

I knew I should never have taken a "temporary" assignment. So I have no one to blame but myself.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

What I read was "outside the Boston DMA."
For WTIW, all the Superstation games
have been available in the past, including
the Mets (WPIX) and Rockies (KWGN). 
KWGN is out of the baseball biz. I don't
know if the Mets will be available on PIX
outside of NYC. Sunday's Mets game (3/2)
on PIX is not blacked out...yet.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Maniacal1.....yes the WSBK/NESN games do include outside the Boston DMA..Pete is correct...I read that in the Boston Globe online a few months ago.....so I would think Chief would still be able to receive....As I know these will be included on that other package that the rest of the tribe isnt crazy about converting to as well...:hi:


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Isn't there some speciial exemption under SHVIA for 173 year old Native Americans who love the Red Sox? If not it is an obvious oversight in the law and the FCC or the elders of your nation should just do something to correct it. 

All I have to say is that you European Americans have strange ways. Taking our land was one thing but dangling a chance to see the Red Sox on Friday nights in front of us and then taking it away---that is cruel.

I wrote DISH. I have no idea if they will answer it but I wrote them.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Maniacal1 _
> *Chief, the NESN connection is that, for all the WSBK/WBZ games, NESN will broadcast them to the rest of New England outside of Boston (maybe outside the Boston DMA, but "outside of Boston" is all I've heard).
> 
> Yes, it's the BC Eagles, whose annual exhibition game with Boston ends with tonight's game. Before this year, it was always BC, since John Harrington is BC boy. But the new ownership just announced that they will rotate the game each spring between BU, Harvard, Northeastern, and BC. *


1. This means NESN is carrying virtually every Red Sox game if you live outside the Boston DMA.(But in NESN'S district which is much larger than the Boston DMA) This sounds like a great arrangement. If you live in the DMA you get some games for free and if you want all of them you pay. (Like it has been) I you live outside the DMA (And in the NESN district) you can now get all the games by getting NESN. I'm VERY happy about this.(By the way - this is a major curse - being a Red Sox fan - but I digress)

2. This now changes my thinking of the ongoing contract negotiations between Dish and NESN. I understand the problem of making NESN a -la-carte- only those who want it would pay and the cost would be high - especially because it is only available to a small number of subscribers to begin with. This is the same principle why other networks are not generally available a-la-carte.
But on the other hand, I would be willing to pay a bit more knowing NESN is now carrying almost every game. Though Dish does not have the MLB package, it would cost much more to get it if they did when all I really want is Red Sox games. I really hope NESN and Dish work this out.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I think we have established that NESN will carry games to the portion of New England territory that is not part of the Boston DMA. However the original question was-----will those of us outside of New England be able to see the games? 

If I get an answer from DISH (or another source) I will pass it on. 
So far I have sent emails to DISH (form reply) WSBK (They told me that their signal will not reach me if I live outside New England :bang ) and the Red Sox Fan feedback (The mailbox is full)



Anyway have a great day and a pleasant tomorrow!


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Chief;
At least you know that tonight's game
vs. BC and Sunday's game vs. Twins will
be in the clear. Take heart...maybe it
will stay that way when the regular season
begins.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I get NESN via the MultiSports pak, but the live baseball games are always blacked out. I'm assuming this will continue (barring rain delays or games running long)


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Maybe I have not been clear. I am referring to games which will be broadcast OTA in the Bostion DMA and via NESN to other parts of their area (the New England area).

The question is will DISH Network subs who happen to be outside New England be able to see the games on WSBK. All of the games will be blacked out on NESN (except in the NESN area) as alweays.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

It will be an interesting test. I have not seen any provision in SHVIA for them to black out the games on WSBK, except in the territory of the opposing team or in the home territory to protect the gate. The latter would affect ESPN in the case of a NESN non-sunday telecast. The latter also applies mostly to Distant Network stations in the case of an NFL Home game.

I don't think there are legal grounds for WSBK to request a blackout outside their DMA. The request for a blackout must come from a provider whose territory is being entered, which has the same program on. This is like when the Bruins and Flyers get together, WSBK is blacked out, here in Flyers territory only.

Another situation similar to what is being discussed is the Rams' preseason games on KTLA. KTLA pulled there feed on C band saying something like the NFL regs will not allow you to see this game. But, they were not successful in getting the Superstation feed on DISH Network cut off for those games. Whether they tried or not is not known here.


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## Zane26 (Jan 2, 2003)

I understood Geronimo's question. If you live in Boston you can see the Sox on NESN and WSBK. Out of market means all the games will be on NESN (except for FOX Saturday). So this should mean Direct TV Extra Innings (which is what I have) will have more Sox games this year. Yay. I could never switch to Dish Network; they have no YES network and I'm not going to wait until I'm old and gray. I would think it's funny if Cablevison gets YES before Dish. (And no, I'm not a Yankees Fan, I like the Sox too).


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I have received another email from WSBK. This time they seem to be telling me that the Friday night games will be available to DISH subs outside of New England. 

Now as Zane points out they will also be available on MLB EI so it looks like both DISH and DTV subs have something to be happy about. 

I have gotten a lot of email on this. So I am not counting my home runs yet. I guess we will find out for sure during the season.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Well I said i would share so I will.

I received my THIRD reply from WSBK. This one tells me the games will be available on NESN. At this point I will just wait till the first Friday in the season and tune to WSBK.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

OK. Two more replies from WSBK. The first one told me that NESN distributes the games and that WSBK only broadcasts the Friday games. A fair enough answer but it does not really respond to the question.

The second response said that they were not sure if a satellite was necessary to black out the broadcasts but that they would look into it. I do not make these up guys. I just call 'em like I see 'em.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

FWIW I tried to call into the Charlie Chat. I got thru even. I was told my question might air. then that it would be handled off air. I was fianlly told that they cannot give me any information on blackouts on the supers.

Like I said above I will just wait till the season starts.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

No offense, Chief, but I wonder whether this is the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle in action. That is, I worry that your attempts to learn what WSBK's plans were may have changed those plans.

What if WSBK management had overlooked the tiny fraction of its audience that lives out of the region? What if they had given no thought to the need to black out anything until someone raised the point?

I'm really, really hoping for the best, but stuff like this is why I get careful about the questions I ask.

P.S. Among the things conspicuous by their absence from the Charlie Chat was MLB EI. Looks like we're in for another season without it on Dish.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2003)

Geronimo, 

I live in Houston and had the same situation you have now. A couple years ago DirecTV had the locals on one bird that everyone could pick up anywhere in the country. The Sox games were spit between 25 and NESN. 

When I subscribed to DirecTV, I gave them my old address in Massachusetts as my "service" address, and gave my Houston address as my "billing" address. It was a white lie to get my teams games. You couldn't get all the Sox games on the Extra Innings package due to blackouts(about half actually) so I didn't feel bad about it at all. 

If I was in your situation I would change the "service"address to somewhere in the Boston DMA. You would get all 162 games in that situation.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

First of all I got yet another reply from WSBK. This one say the games will blacked out. Blame me if you want. After all I was the one who told Harry Frazee it was OK to go in debt up to his ears because he could always sell that Ruth guy for cash if he needed it.

Second yes I could tell them I live in MA but I personally have moral qualms about that. I won't judge anyone else but but I do have those qualms. Second the rest of the tribe would complain about no locals.

As for EI I think what came out of the threads on this is that DTV has a DBS exclusive for another year. Although, as is the case in a lot of threads, everyone semed to believe whatever they wanted to believe.

but for botht things we will know for sure on opening Day.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Red Sox game on WSBK is blacked out for sunday, here. Also, blacked out monday. 

Blacked out on DISH NESN as well.


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## Mike (Apr 10, 2002)

Blacked out here in So Cal too on WSBK. This makes no sense. Why have the supers if the games are blacked out on one of the two stations left that still have baseball? Dish needs to work on that policy. I need Charlie to fight for that......


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## QualityIsJobOne (Apr 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by JohnH _
> *Red Sox game on WSBK is blacked out for sunday, here. Also, blacked out monday. *


...These Sox games are in the StarChoice IPG(WSBK-Channel 654). I will be very suprised if they are blacked out. I'll let you know.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

:crying: 

Dish blacked out the freaking _replay_ of the spring training game on Fox Sports New York last night. Now they're taking down the reason I bought the supers in the first place!

Considering Dish was showing spring training games a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if they got a NastyGram from MLB, or if they have a hyperprotective exec in-house or something.

Last year, I bought WPIX by itself. Maybe I need to downgrade. Lemme see, at $1.50/month savings, it'll take until July for the downgrade to pay for itself. :crying: 

I'm angry enough to shout: (Cartman voice)Barbra Streisand!(/Cartman voice)


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

(Cartman Voice) Screw You Charlie Im going to D*.......(Cartman Voice)


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2003)

Geronimo - What a moron you are! Why bring this to WSBK's attention? The baseball hasn't been blacked out in the past, so why were you so worried it would start now. Thanks a lot for informing WSBK of this, you are probably the reason for the blackouts. GRRRR


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DCSholtis _
> *(Cartman Voice) Screw You Charlie Im going to D*.......(Cartman Voice)  *


WSBK isn't even AVAILABLE on Directv so that won't fix anything. At least we have the rest of WSBK's programming to enjoy, unlike you D* folks.


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## RichW (Mar 29, 2002)

You guys need to think with your brains on this. If blackouts occur, its not because Charlie (or DirecTV) want them. Its because the sports franchises get their way. Put the blame squarely where it belongs!


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2003)

I just wrote WSBK an email on their website(upn38.com) and let them know how unhappy I am about this blackout. Here's what I said:

Hi, I am a Dish Network subscriber and I recieve WSBK as part of Dish's "Superstations" package. I have been enjoying WSBK since the late '80s when I had a large C-Band dish. WSBK is one of my most viewed stations, and I was quite disappointed to turn on my television this afternoon(Sunday March 16) only to see that you guys had blacked out the Red Sox/Pirates exhibition game. Blacking out an exhibition game??? WHY? Whose decision was this, WSBK's or Dish Network's? When you guys used to carry the Sox, I didn't see these ridiculous blackouts. I am hoping this is a one time problem, and that Sox baseball will be viewable on WSBK for the rest of this season. Like I said, WSBK is one of my favorite channels, but if these blackouts continue, I may decide to no longer watch ANYTHING on your network as a result. If blacking out an exhibition baseball game is worth losing longtime loyal viewers to your station, then all I can say is more power to you. By the way, I am not just upset with WSBK. As soon as I saw the game was blacked out a 1PM today, I called Dish and made my displeasure quite clear to them and asked them to please work out something with WSBK where Red Sox games can be shown this season. Thanks for your time, and I'd appreciate any information regarding this matter that you can share with me.

If/when I get a response from WSBK on this, I'll post it here.


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## QualityIsJobOne (Apr 29, 2002)

FYI....I'm watching the Red Sox/Pirates game on WSBK on StarChoice as I type. :dance:


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

IF you read the entire thread you willsee that his was reported some time ago.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It probably does not belong with WSBK either. It is probably MLB that is preventing them because they want to resell the out of market game.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Geronimo _
> *IF you read the entire thread you willsee that his was reported some time ago. *


Yea, probably because YOU kept on hounding WSBK about this.

Geronimo: "Are you SURE you don't wanna blackout the Sox games?" 
WSBK: "Nah that's ok, it's not a big deal"
Geronimo: "But we aren't in the Boston DMA, it's probably illegal for us to see them, maybe you should?"
WSBK: "Since you put it that way, maybe we should look into this problem..."

Do you not see how stupid this was on your part? The earlier preseason games on WSBK haven't been blacked out, it seems like WSBK didn't care until YOU brought it to their attention and made such a damn big deal about it. Thanks a lot!


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MarkL _
> *
> 
> WSBK isn't even AVAILABLE on Directv so that won't fix anything. At least we have the rest of WSBK's programming to enjoy, unlike you D* folks. *


Unless all you care about is baseball.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Yeah I caused it. Again if you read all of this you see that there were stories that the games were going to be blacked out from the time that the NESN/VIACOM deal was signed. 

The rights to this are still held by NESN---they are allowing WSBK to broadcast in the Boston DMA.

BTW the exchange depicted by another poster is not even close to what happened. There were reports bith ways. I asked WSBK once what the story was and received four different answers. The last one indicated that it was a condition of the way they bought rights from NESN---which is what had been reported earlier.

I did not hound them or ask multiple times. I wrote once which is exactly what the other poster did. I did ask DISH during the Charlie Chat and I have reported here what I heard from them. I realize being without the Sox is an emotional issue. It is to me too but I think it is ridiculous to credit me with causing this. 

I also deny that I caused Buckner to miss that catch. I also deny that my real name is Frazee.


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## Mike (Apr 10, 2002)

Will this effect the Boston games on Friday's when they are just on WSBK? If so, time to think about dumping the supers..


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I live right in the heart of Red Sox country, WSBK's game is blacked out today for me. On my COX Cale the game is being shown and WSBK is not being blacked out.

Yet WGN is showing a cubs game and I can watch it fine. I don't get it?


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Hey MarkL.....at least I have NESN AND Directv so I can actually WATCH the game instead of looking at a blackout screen and this doesnt even have anything to do with what the Chief did or didnt.....its an MLB blackout rule!!


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

The answer I got from WSBK (and admittedly it was the fourth one) indicated indicated that the games were being blacked out everywhere outside the Boston DMA. I am amazed if you can see them on cable. I am not sure who enforces the blackout or how but outside the DMA and inside New England the games were supposed to be on NESN. 

I doubt that WGN, WTBS or WPIX games will be affected. Again there is not a shared rights arrangement. NESN owns the rights for ALL Sox games not apart of the ESPN type package. Thery sold limited rights to certain games to WSBK. We all hoped that this meant we could see these games but it would appear that we can't. Instead they seem to be treated like all Out Of Market games ---we can't see them. I think it stinks but that seems to be what is going on. I sure hope I am wrong.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, WSBK should not have been able to request this blackout anyway. It probably was requested by NESN, since they are the rights holder for the "affected" area. Although I doubt they have the rights outside their territory.


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## Zane26 (Jan 2, 2003)

Again, I understand Geronimo completely. If NESN has the rights to every Sox game ('cept FOX Saturdays) then a WSBK game is actually a NESN game and that means territorial restrictions.

The Dish Network superstations seem kinda lame now; with the Dodgers and Rockies switching stations. If you have your own WB and UPN affiliates; why even bother now? Thank God I have Direct TV with EI; Dish sounds like one headache after another.

But.....sure hope they put the 2003 playoff games on ESPN if I lose ABC Family channel. Otherwise, I'm big time screwed.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

The WSBK blackouts make no sense.
I live 950 miles from Fenway. (And 500
miles from Winter Haven). I'm not
going to see a game there anytime soon.
I'm not taking any $$$ out of MLB very
rich pockets by watching a game or two
on WSBK.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

But is sounds like WSBK doesn't really own the rights to the games.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zane26 _
> * Thank God I have Direct TV with EI; Dish sounds like one headache after another.
> *


I'm thankful I don't have Directv anymore, I put up with their lousy service for 2 years before I switched to Dish. I couldn't be happier now. The superstations are great by the way, don't knock them just because YOU don't have access to them. By the way, enjoy losing ABC Family and MLB playoffs on April 1! The games will NOT be moved to ESPN, you will simply not be able to watch. Oh yea, enjoy not having ESPN-HD on March 31 as well! Enjoy your "great" Directv service. LOL


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

James, that correct....NESN owns the rights to the games....They are producing the WSBK games then simulcating the signal on NESN outside the Boston DMA....When the WSBK games are shown on NESN its with NESN graphics and no mention is made of WSBK...Only difference is that Sean McDonough is there beside Remy...The mikes used are generic ones with Sox Emblems on them.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zane26 _
> *
> The Dish Network superstations seem kinda lame now; with the Dodgers and Rockies switching stations. If you have your own WB and UPN affiliates; why even bother now? Thank God I have Direct TV with EI; Dish sounds like one headache after another.
> 
> But.....sure hope they put the 2003 playoff games on ESPN if I lose ABC Family channel. Otherwise, I'm big time screwed. *


I still enjoy the superstations - definately not lame. You can get news from other parts of the country as well as some programming your locals might not have. Sometimes local to that superstation specials or news events are shown.

I would think if Direct TV drops ABC Family that will be all the more reason you would NOT see those games on ESPN. Why make it easy for Direct to continue not to carry that channel?


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