# Am21 updated



## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Just noticed while checking my signal meters on my am21 that it looks different now. Not sure what else changed


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## DBSSTEPHEN (Oct 13, 2009)

The satellites meter has also changed it must have been with the new software update that they send out because my software now 0X9dd


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Yep, for sure
Maybe they finally updated the channel data base?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Nope, the database is still the same, it's only updated if it involves a station with a Tribune ID lower than 65535 (0xffff). i.e. my local ABC affiliate added a new subchannel 16-3 a few weeks ago, since they previously had a 16-3 early on during the digital transition where they showed their live doppler, Tribune reactivated that ID so it was added to the database.

There's been updates to the database almost weekly though, for things like call sign changes, RF number changes, and some subchannel changes where a station reactivated a subchannel, even if the subchannel was last in use a decade ago as was the case with my ABC affiliate.


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Hmmmm, interesting
So I also noticed whatever they did screwed up my 2 CBS affiliate channel banners. Channel 3-1 out of Kalamazoo and 22-1 South Bend both CBS stations channel banners now show a video rock icon or something. Im guessing I will need to live with it until the next update? What could they have possibly been doing to screw this up? Is there someone to notify about this?

Thanks


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yeah there was a glitch in the logos where they initially assigned Videorola the same logo ID as the CBS logo (the one that shows up for CBS SD and OTA CBS affiliates via the AM21), they already reverted it on their end and gave Videorola a new logo id, but you'll probably have to wait for the next logo update for it to be fixed.


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Well at least they noticed and fixed it already. Next logo update. When will that be? 6 months
Maybe i can drop back to earlier software?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

millertime said:


> Well at least they noticed and fixed it already. Next logo update. When will that be? 6 months
> Maybe i can drop back to earlier software?


The logos are not in the firmware, they are in a "supplemental download". They can push the "supplemental download" at any time day or night.

Dropping back to an earlier version would not fix logos, not to mention it's not possible.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I dont believe they updated anything on the am21. But rather the updated the software on the unit he has it hooked up to.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I dont believe they updated anything on the am21. But rather the updated the software on the unit he has it hooked up to.


The logos still aren't in that software either.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> The logos still aren't in that software either.


Nope, you are quite right about that.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> The logos are not in the firmware, they are in a "supplemental download". They can push the "supplemental download" at any time day or night.
> 
> Dropping back to an earlier version would not fix logos, not to mention it's not possible.


And not possible for a very good reason.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## Jeffro (Dec 24, 2006)

What is the reason DirecTV doesn't update (add sub channels) to their over the air channels that are added to zap2it.com anymore? They need to start doing this so everyone can get all the over the air channels that are available for people who have antennas.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Jeffro said:


> What is the reason DirecTV doesn't update (add sub channels) to their over the air channels that are added to zap2it.com anymore? They need to start doing this so everyone can get all the over the air channels that are available for people who have antennas.


They do add them, but because of a programming/memory limitation they can't add anything with Tribune ID higher than 65535 (0xffff). In programming/machine code, it's the difference between storing the value as a 16 bit integer (65535) to a 32 bit integer (4294967295). It may sound trivial, but it makes a noticible difference if you have limited space in the data stream or the memory of the receivers where the data is stored, along with whatever function in the code accesses that value.

If your local station did some experimental things early in the transition, like SD simulcasts, live doppler radars, or carried some of the early OTA subchannel networks that are now defunct like NBC Weather Plus or The Tube, a new station added today that uses that subchannel will be available.

i.e. Up until 2006 my local ABC affiliate had a doppler radar on 16-3, fast forward to a few weeks ago, they added a new subchannel on 16-3, since its Tribune ID is below 65535 it was added to the OTA listings.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

KyL416 said:


> ...
> 
> If your local station did some experimental things early in the transition, like SD simulcasts, live doppler radars, or carried some of the early OTA subchannel networks that are now defunct like NBC Weather Plus or The Tube, a new station added today that uses that subchannel will be available.
> 
> i.e. Up until 2006 my local ABC affiliate had a doppler radar on 16-3, fast forward to a few weeks ago, they added a new subchannel on 16-3, since its Tribune ID is below 65535 it was added to the OTA listings.


Yep, one sub-channel here for instance just did that ...

KTTV 11 (a FOX O&O) channel 11-2 used to be an SD simulcast of their main HD sub-channel on 11-1 up until Oct. 1st when it became the Heroes & Icons channel. The problem is TMS has not yet updated their DB so DIRECTV is still showing it as 11-2 in the guide with a copy of 11-1's guide data when it should now be KCOP 13-4 with guide info. for the new H&I channel.

Note: KTTV actually uses the bandwidth of KCOP 13 (MyTV) which FOX also owns for all it's secondary sub-channels and merely labeled one with virtual channel number 11-2 as though it's coming from KTTV's transmitter when it's really not. This way FOX can keep KTTV's bandwidth free of the burden of any multicasting while sacrificing KCOP's who's main sub-channel 13-1 obviously looks bit-starved as a result.

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## JohnBoy (Sep 9, 2011)

Here in Orlando the am21 glitch that never seems to get fixed is the Wrdq 27-2 Antenna Tv and Wrdq 31-2 (telemundo) both showing the same guide data info and channel 27-2 gets negated off the guide.

I wish WRDQ or Directv would just label 31-2 to 31-3 so channel 27-2 will show up on my guide.

I have to keep using OK city 71303 secondary zip to bring it up and if I have to reboot my genie for anything I have to go through the long tedious process of bringing it back up.


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Geez, finally got a firmware update today and they still didn't fix the cbs Ota channel logo wtf it's been video Rola since October


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

millertime said:


> Geez, finally got a firmware update today and they still didn't fix the cbs Ota channel logo wtf it's been video Rola since October


Once again... Logos aren't in the firmware. They are a supplemental update that can take place at any time.


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Sorry, just venting a bit. One would think they would have happened before a firmware update.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

millertime said:


> Sorry, just venting a bit. One would think they would have happened before a firmware update.


I doubt it will happen, period. 1. DirecTV doesn't support the AM21 anymore. 2. Logos are supplied by the channel owners, not DirecTV.


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

I'm in Orlando too and have an HR20-700. I can't get 27-2. The guide information for 27-2 is listed under 31-2. Is there a workaround to correct this. When I call D* the people are totally incompetent. They don't even understand how the guide works.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Most owners don't understand the guide and the limitations imposed by the database.


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

I guess I am one of them. Any clues to a workaround or fix?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

rinnersan said:


> I guess I am one of them. Any clues to a workaround or fix?


Best method = Get an OTA TIVO and save yourself the trouble.

Alternatively = You can try and "fool" the OTA tuner into receiving a sub-channel you wish, but unless you are very lucky the guide program listings for it will be wrong, though you can nevertheless now tune to it.

Look for another local market that has a sub-channel 27-2 or else find another market sub-channel which has both a "-2" and has the same RF channel (Note: not the virtual number "27-"). Locate the zip code for that market and then rerun the OTA setup with that same zip code entered as the secondary when prompted.

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Download the transponder map spreadsheet from here ...

http://dbstalk.com/index.php?/topic/200951-Transponder-Maps:-Domestic-&-DLA--~--Data--1/27/2016

And look under the OTA tab for the list of local markets covered by the HR20's and AM21/22 OTA ATSC tuners.

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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

Thank you. I've been trying--added stations but not the one I want! Don't know how to apply the advice on same RF with a -2 but I'll keep struggling. Thanks again!


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

This is a problem that a lot of people in Orlando have. Both 27-2 and 31-2 come from WRDQ, and the AM-21 gets confused by the second -2 subchannel and maps the listings for 27-2, which is in the database, to 31-2 since the RF channel matches.

This is what WRDQ transmits:
27-1 WRDQ
27-2 Antenna TV
27-4 Grit
31-2 SD simulcast of WTMO-CD


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

Thanks! I added Oklahoma City as a secondary and picked up 27-2. Don't know how to get 27-4.


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

PS--D* is worthless in helping. Even technical support tried to tell me the guide list comes OTA and not in D* database.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

rinnersan said:


> Thanks! I added Oklahoma City as a secondary and picked up 27-2. Don't know how to get 27-4.


By running OKC you should have matched the ANTENNA TV guide for 27.2 in Orlando. If you run Bristol VA (37620) it will give you 27.4 with an incorrect guide for that channel. It shouldn't affect your 27.2 and Bristol is a smaller DMA thus creating less duplicate channels. There is no way to match to get the correct (GRIT) guide on that channel. An additional tip: 9.3 RF39 is LAFF in Orlando, not in the database for Orlando. By running Seattle WA (98101) as a secondary zip you will get 9.3 LAFF with the correct guide, as Seattle carries LAFF on 7.3 RF39, thus matching for you in Orlando. I will correct myself, since Seattle has a 9.3 channel in the database it will map to that channel and you would get 9.3 in Orlando, but with an incorrect guide. By studying Orlando further channels 43.2-43.4 and 65.2-65.4 would all be able to be received by running the right zips.


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

Thanks!


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

KyL416 said:


> Yeah there was a glitch in the logos where they initially assigned Videorola the same logo ID as the CBS logo (the one that shows up for CBS SD and OTA CBS affiliates via the AM21), they already reverted it on their end and gave Videorola a new logo id, but you'll probably have to wait for the next logo update for it to be fixed.


Great info. Out of curiosity, how do you know that the logo has been fixed for a future update?


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

I know when coconut first mentioned the workaround to add more subchannels to one's guide, you had to match RF channels. But, I have noticed that you do not have to do that anymore. You can match either RF or PSIP from the database. You'll get an odd mix of channels to show up in the "all channels" list, but they can be hidden in the antenna menu.

Example: My MeTV is WPTZ 5-3, RF 14. I use the zipcode for Westlco, TX to use their MeTV on KRGV 5-3, RF 13 on the guide and it works fine. 
As a bonus gift, I am able to watch CBFT 2-1 Montreal via the AM21 because that market in Texas has a PSIP on 2-1 XHRIO in Mexico (MundoMax) in the database, but the RF for that channel is 26 where as CBFT is 19. A channel from Canada shows up with Mexican calls and they speak French but the guide is Spanish.... anyway,

Example 2: Weslaco, TX's market has RF and PSIP 38. It is their odd-situation of a PBS, KMBH. I have RF 38 (WCFE Plattsburgh, NY) with PSIP 57-1 AND KMBH on the all-channels guide, so it definitely works both ways.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ejbvt said:


> I know when coconut first mentioned the workaround to add more subchannels to one's guide, you had to match RF channels. But, I have noticed that you do not have to do that anymore. You can match either RF or PSIP from the database. You'll get an odd mix of channels to show up in the "all channels" list, but they can be hidden in the antenna menu.
> 
> Example: My MeTV is WPTZ 5-3, RF 14. I use the zipcode for Westlco, TX to use their MeTV on KRGV 5-3, RF 13 on the guide and it works fine.
> As a bonus gift, I am able to watch CBFT 2-1 Montreal via the AM21 because that market in Texas has a PSIP on 2-1 XHRIO in Mexico (MundoMax) in the database, but the RF for that channel is 26 where as CBFT is 19. A channel from Canada shows up with Mexican calls and they speak French but the guide is Spanish.... anyway,
> ...


Hey same here. ..

Also using the Weslaco, TX's market as a secondary on one of the HR24/AM21N combos to receive the Heroes & Icons channel on KCOP 13-4 (a FOX O&O) using the RF channel/virtual -4 sub-channel match. And receiving THIS TV on local KTLA 5-3 using the PSIP match work-a-round.

Guide data is incorrect for both channels, but at least can tune to them on that receiver.

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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> Hey same here. ..
> 
> Also using the Weslaco, TX's market as a secondary on one of the HR24/AM21N combos to receive the Heroes & Icons channel on KCOP 13-4 (a FOX O&O) using the RF channel/virtual -4 sub-channel match. And receiving THIS TV on local KTLA 5-3 using the PSIP match work-a-round.
> 
> ...


You could get the THIS guide on 5.3 in LA. You would have to clear your AM21, because you have a 5.3 already established by running Weslaco. If you clear the AM21 and run Salt Lake (84101) as a secondary zip you will have the THIS guide on 5.3, because Salt Lake runs THIS on 5.3 KSL and it would match the 5.3 channel in LA. Salt Lake will also give you 2.2 KCBS Decades, although it will have the wrong guide. Then run Bangor ME (04401) to get 13.3 and 13.4 in LA. Again, the guide will be wrong, but you will be able to view the channels. Then you can run Wausau WI (54401) to get 46.3 and 46.4 in LA, with incorrect guides.


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Okay, OTA experts, I have some serious I-don't-understand-this problems in the OTA data.

Here are just two examples:

1. Network 512, Market 1, ZIP 79601, Abilene/Sweetwater, Texas
The last record entry for this DMA is WMGMDT - from Linwood, New Jersey. What ?? The ZIP for WMGMDT shows as 79601 only because in processing the raw data, that ZIP is assigned to OTA records in Market #1.

2. Network 712, Market 201, ZIP 54401, Wausau/Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The last four record entries for this DMA are from West Palm Beach, Florida. What ??

My first sanity check was to validate the raw data, before any error-prone humans had touched it. The data records are accurate. Except for the ZIP codes, this is what we receive from the satellites.

Are we looking at a Tribune Media Services problem? These 'glitches' are precisely consistent week after week, so they are not just intermittent data errors.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Do you know if any of these nonsensical local station entires for a market ever actually appear to a DIRECTV subscriber with an HR20/AM21(22) in the OTA guide list?

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Wausau/Rhinelander is market 201, West Palm Beach is market 202. Perhaps that has something to do with the second issue.


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## rinnersan (May 27, 2009)

I think in my naïveté I provoked a renewal of this topic. What pisses me off is everyone is making do with workarounds for now, but in the long run D* is going to make us use receivers that don't accommodate an OTA receiver. Hoping the latest FCC intentions will save us.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

rinnersan said:


> I think in my naïveté I provoked a renewal of this topic. What pisses me off is everyone is making do with workarounds for now, but in the long run D* is going to make us use receivers that don't accommodate an OTA receiver. Hoping the latest FCC intentions will save us.


I fear the same, and I fear that it will not be that far away. Is there some sort of external thing like a sling or Roku or something like those that could merge Directv and OTA together, as it is now?


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Gary Toma said:


> Okay, OTA experts, I have some serious I-don't-understand-this problems in the OTA data.
> 
> Here are just two examples:
> 
> ...


Some homework to share with you:

Case 1 above: WMGMDT showed as part of Market 147, Philadelphia, until 5/27/15, when it suddenly moved to Market 1, Abilene. The Philadelphia DMA would make sense. Also - WMGMDT appears nowhere else except for Abilene at this time.

Case 2 above: the four West Palm Beach stations have been shown as a part of Wausau/Rhinelander, Wisconsin DMA since at least August 18, 2009. I just didn't bother going back any further.

There is a real credibility problem with the OTA data we are being given.


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

ejbvt said:


> As a bonus gift, I am able to watch CBFT 2-1 Montreal via the AM21 because that market in Texas has a PSIP on 2-1 XHRIO in Mexico (MundoMax) in the database, but the RF for that channel is 26 where as CBFT is 19. A channel from Canada shows up with Mexican calls and they speak French but the guide is Spanish.... anyway,


First: thank you for a great laugh !!

If you can get a channel from Canada, that shows up with a Mexican callsign, and they speak French, but the Guide is in Spanish...

you REALLY should be working for SETI.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

Gary Toma said:


> Okay, OTA experts, I have some serious I-don't-understand-this problems in the OTA data.
> 
> Here are just two examples:
> 
> ...


The information is recorded wrong. WTPX is a Wausau channel and must be listed wrong as a West Palm Beach channel. There are other anamolies in the D* database. Network 623 Little Rock AR has 2 16.1 channels KLRT 16.1 RF30. The actual channel from LR. But, it also has 16.1 RF16 KTUW from Scottsbluff NE listed. My opinion, is that these are just error's when the database was created.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

rinnersan said:


> I think in my naïveté I provoked a renewal of this topic. What pisses me off is everyone is making do with workarounds for now, but in the long run D* is going to make us use receivers that don't accommodate an OTA receiver. Hoping the latest FCC intentions will save us.


I doubt they are going to cause OTA on those with existing AM21 setups (or H20/HR20) to stop working. They might stop all OTA database updates so if your channels move around you are out of luck, and they might announce a future date when OTA will stop being supported. They won't just shut off one day without warning.

Will future gear not support the AM21 at all? Probably, but they won't "make" you use that future gear - no one is going to come take away the receivers you have for a long long time. Hell, they are years away from taking away people's SD receivers, it will be at least a decade before they come for your HR24 or HR44! If they come out with something new that doesn't support the AM21, and don't offer a new OTA solution, then it will be up to you whether the advantages of that new whatever outweigh the disadvantages of losing your OTA integration.

I still think it is possible that they will some new solution for OTA when the combined AT&T/Directv solution arrives later this year or early next year. But if not no one will force you to go to that for a long time (so long as you remain an active Directv customer, if you leave and come back later all bets are off)


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

coconut13 said:


> .....The information is recorded wrong. WTPX is a Wausau channel and must be listed wrong as a West Palm Beach channel. There are other anamolies ....


If it is only the Notes_0 and Notes_1 fields that are all that is wrong in many of these error cases, it is not so critical. As long as the station information and TMS_ID are correct, the channel can be received. The Notes errors just add a nifty confusion factor.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

...........Case 2 above: the four West Palm Beach stations have been shown as a part of Wausau/Rhinelander, Wisconsin DMA since at least August 18, 2009. I just didn't bother going back any further........


I can confirm your statement as I have noticed them in my lineup up there for several years. Of course when you tune to them, they are blank.


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

codespy said:


> ...........Case 2 above: the four West Palm Beach stations have been shown as a part of Wausau/Rhinelander, Wisconsin DMA since at least August 18, 2009. I just didn't bother going back any further........
> 
> I can confirm your statement as I have noticed them in my lineup up there for several years. Of course when you tune to them, they are blank.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


So much for my optimism that these channels would be operative, but with the wrong Notes information. It appears they don't work at all. Sigh...


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

A local station has added METV on an OTA subchannel and it does appear in the guide. The recording receiver is an HR24-100 with an AM21 attached. However, recording this channel is sporadic. I can set a recording and the guide reports the program has recorded but when I try to playback the receiver reports no audio/video packets and skips to the delete option even though the orange bar shows the entire show recorded. The oddest thing is that some programs will record and playback just fine while others won't. My other receivers are an HR20-700, an HR22-100 and an HR22-100. The supposedly recorded program does appear in the recorded list on all receivers.

Does anyone hve a clue what may be happening here?


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

Check your internet speed. My HR24/HR44 setup will give me that message when I'm trying to view a recording from a receiver that is not the original recording receiver. But it happens very infrequently and I noticed it only happens when my internet speed is low, which doesn't happen to often.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

coconut13 said:


> Check your internet speed.


I'm sorry but I don't understand how the internet is involved. I am (hope to) record an OTA signal via the AM21.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

The internet is involved if you want to watch anything through "whole home". If I record something on my HR24 and want to watch it on my HR44 the internet connection makes this possible. So your speed would affect your being able to view something in this manner. If you just have a recording that comes and goes I would check your antenna signal OTA on that channel. If your signal is sporadic, that would cause a recording as you explain.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

coconut13 said:


> The internet is involved if you want to watch anything through "whole home".


Not true at all. You don't need an Internet connection for MRV to work.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And in fact people's routers can cause issues sometimes.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

I have found that the staff in the access card department generally know more than the average person in the tech department so I usually start there with a question. I posed my problem to a nice lady in the a/c department and she just said "do a reboot and it will be solved". I did an RBR and everything now works. Joy, joy, joy.


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## ferk1008 (Feb 4, 2016)

I am not receiving all of my local channels thru Directv STB and AM21 tuner. However when I plug antenna on roof thru coax cable directly into my TV, I receive all of them that are offered locally. How can I obtain the ones I am missing?
Chicago missing:
2.2: Decades
50.4: Buzzr TV
Is there a way to reset my AM21 tuner and start over with scan and program?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ferk1008 said:


> I am not receiving all of my local channels thru Directv STB and AM21 tuner. However when I plug antenna on roof thru coax cable directly into my TV, I receive all of them that are offered locally. How can I obtain the ones I am missing?
> Chicago missing:
> 2.2: Decades
> 50.4: Buzzr TV
> Is there a way to reset my AM21 tuner and start over with scan and program?


No, they're not in DIRECTV's OTA database, but you can "fool" the AM21 into receiving them with (unless you're lucky) limitations of wrong guide data.

Read from earlier in this thread beginning here for details. Particularly note coconut13's posts.

http://dbstalk.com/index.php?/topic/219554-Am21-updated

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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

ferk1008 said:


> I am not receiving all of my local channels thru Directv STB and AM21 tuner. However when I plug antenna on roof thru coax cable directly into my TV, I receive all of them that are offered locally. How can I obtain the ones I am missing?
> Chicago missing:
> 2.2: Decades
> 50.4: Buzzr TV
> Is there a way to reset my AM21 tuner and start over with scan and program?


If you run Nashville TN (37201) it will give you 2.2. 50.2 and 50.4 in Chicago. Then if you run Honolulu HI (96813) it will give you 26.5, 66.2 and 66.3. Then run Wausau WI (54401) to get 9.3. These are some secondary zips you can run to get channels that are missing in the database for Chicago. None of the guides match, but it is the best you can do. I think Wausau 9.3 gives you the DECADES guide albeit on the wrong channel. But you can reference it any way.


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## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

Just got a big update for my hr24 and still no logo update for Ota Cbs from videorola wtf


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

millertime said:


> Just got a big update for my hr24 and still no logo update for Ota Cbs from videorola wtf


Logos don't come from updates to firmware. It's probably the station not giving them the logo...


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

inkahauts said:


> Logos don't come from updates to firmware. It's probably the station not giving them the logo...


All CBS logos on the AM21 have been Video Rola since last year when they fixed the Video Rola (ch 415) logo which used to have the CBS logo. It's BEYOND annoying, since I have the OTA locals on quicktune and the logo is the only identification. They haven't done a logo update in a long time - like since before we got Revolt and the Freeform rebrand.

Does anyone know why they don't put logos they have on the AM21 channels? Like my local CW is 5-2 and there's no CW logo. There wasn't one on either CW affiliate I got when I lived in NC either. Nor was Univision, Unimas, Telemundo, TCT, and other channels that there are logos for (mostly the local affiliates of the Christian channels, but also WeatherNation etc.). They do ABC, NBC, Fox, and PBS logos only, and the error for CBS.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

KyL416 said:


> Nope, the database is still the same, it's only updated if it involves a station with a Tribune ID lower than 65535 (0xffff). i.e. my local ABC affiliate added a new subchannel 16-3 a few weeks ago, since they previously had a 16-3 early on during the digital transition where they showed their live doppler, Tribune reactivated that ID so it was added to the database.
> 
> There's been updates to the database almost weekly though, for things like call sign changes, RF number changes, and some subchannel changes where a station reactivated a subchannel, even if the subchannel was last in use a decade ago as was the case with my ABC affiliate.


 I see this mention alot. What is 65535 (0xffff)?


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> I see this mention alot. What is 65535 (0xffff)?


65,535 is the largest number that will fit into a 16-bit binary integer, which is a simple way to store numbers in computer files. This is the largest number that DirecTV's database can store for an over-the-air (OTA) station identifier. Unfortunately, the database that tribune Media Services uses to provide this identifier to its customers allows larger numbers than 16 bits, so DirecTV leaves out any station which has an identifier greater than 65,535.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ejbvt said:


> All CBS logos on the AM21 have been Video Rola since last year when they fixed the Video Rola (ch 415) logo which used to have the CBS logo. It's BEYOND annoying, since I have the OTA locals on quicktune and the logo is the only identification. They haven't done a logo update in a long time - like since before we got Revolt and the Freeform rebrand.
> 
> Does anyone know why they don't put logos they have on the AM21 channels? Like my local CW is 5-2 and there's no CW logo. There wasn't one on either CW affiliate I got when I lived in NC either. Nor was Univision, Unimas, Telemundo, TCT, and other channels that there are logos for (mostly the local affiliates of the Christian channels, but also WeatherNation etc.). They do ABC, NBC, Fox, and PBS logos only, and the error for CBS.


Yeah ...

Just another reason I dumped the AM21 over a year and a half ago now for a TIVO Roamio OTA.

TIVO has been regularly updating the station logos here to where I now have them for almost all the major stations and their associated sub-channels.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

I moved to a TiVO bolt for my OTA backups and I'm not regretting it one bit. Both of my AM21's have now been moved to storage.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

For those of us without a ton of money to have two DVR services, the AM21 still does it's job.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ejbvt said:


> For those of us without a ton of money to have two DVR services, the AM21 still does it's job.


Who says it's a ton of money? Service is free for one year then very affordable after that.

It's also more than just OTA.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

It's nice to have everything in one box ( OTA, SAT,etc) and not have to change inputs on your TV, plus the AM21 serves all the mini's hooked up to the Genie system. The TIVO's are very good machines (IMO better than any D* receiver) and it is a very functional way to go, if the AM21 database is lacking in your area, etc. So really both (either) way works very well and it's just up to how you want to structure your setup. I've heard the TIVO's have very good receiving tuners, so that would be another plus for the TIVO.


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## ladannen (Oct 27, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Who says it's a ton of money? Service is free for one year then very affordable after that.
> 
> It's also more than just OTA.


Each person's "ton of money" definition is different.
Amazon has the OTA/Streaming Bolt listed as $319.99 for the 500GB version and $419.99 for the 1 TB version. Annual guide data is included for the first year and $149 per year after that.
I think it is safe to say that plenty of people would define that as "a ton of money".

https://www.amazon.com/TiVo-500GB-Unified-Entertainment-System/dp/B013X8YI5I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465393053&sr=8-1&keywords=TiVO+bolt


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

I agree with coconut - having it all in one place is wonderful. 

Also, about the CBS logo - am I crazy or have they gone in there and changed the Fox logo but didn't fix the CBS logo? The FOX logo used to be written large on the AM21 channel and smaller with "HD" on the Directv feed. Some time ago, I noticed that the FOX had changed to both being small FOX and the Directv feed has the HD.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

bakers12 said:


> 65,535 is the largest number that will fit into a 16-bit binary integer, which is a simple way to store numbers in computer files. This is the largest number that DirecTV's database can store for an over-the-air (OTA) station identifier. Unfortunately, the database that tribune Media Services uses to provide this identifier to its customers allows larger numbers than 16 bits, so DirecTV leaves out any station which has an identifier greater than 65,535.


 Thank you


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

coconut13 said:


> It's nice to have everything in one box ( OTA, SAT,etc) and not have to change inputs on your TV...


This. This. This. It's nice to have everything in one list.

I had a TiVo HD, but sold it a while back. The Roamio and the Bolt can only record 4 OTA programs at a time, plus you need a good reliable antenna. With 5 networks, a 4 tuner OTA DVR just won't cut it, IMHO.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

You need a good antenna to make the AM21 functional, also. Plus the AM21 only has 2 tuners capable of recording OTA channels. Although, you still have a total of 5 tuners if the AM21 is hooked to a Genie. Like I said, the nicest thing about an AM21/DVR setup is, 1 guide with all your SAT and OTA channels in one guide, and not having to switch inputs on your TV to view either one. So actually the TIVO would be capable of recording 4 OTA channels at once and you still would have all the tuners on your DVR to record SAT channels, if you have a setup of a DVR for SAT and a TIVO for OTA.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

David Ortiz said:


> This. This. This. It's nice to have everything in one list.
> 
> I had a TiVo HD, but sold it a while back. The Roamio and the Bolt can only record 4 OTA programs at a time, plus you need a good reliable antenna. With 5 networks, a 4 tuner OTA DVR just won't cut it, IMHO.


Is there EVER a time when you want to record programming on all five networks? How would you ever have time to watch all that crap?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Is there EVER a time when you want to record programming on all five networks? How would you ever have time to watch all that crap?


The answer to the first question is yes. The second question is just rude.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> The answer to the first question is yes. The second question is just rude.


Agreed...


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

slice1900 said:


> Is there EVER a time when you want to record programming on all five networks? How would you ever have time to watch all that crap?


This is my question when people are like "We only have 100 timers" or "i need to record 8 things at a time" - why on earth do you need that? How could you possibly watch it all? I can barely keep up with 6 shows!


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

While you can barely keep up with 6 shows, some here spend more time watching TV or have a large family with diverse viewing habits.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well ... while my TIVO Roamio OTA is still a superior off-air solution especially in comparison to DIRECTV's poor one. I will nevertheless temper my boasting about it somewhat from now on I guess.

Cooling fan recently started humming like a refrigerator and so far the only replacement (with tools) I can find is from the seemingly forever expensive Weaknees.com for ~$40.00 ... 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Does the fan sound like it always did the first 30 seconds after booting? If so, the defect is probably not with the fan but with its ability to sense temperature. Tivos boot with the fan at max, until the boot gets enough of the OS running to where it looks at the temperature and moderates the fan's rpms to the "barely alive" level required to keep it cool. At least with my Premiere, I think it would probably run just fine with the fan disabled - certainly sticking a small slow USB powered fan on the outside by the vent where the real fan is would be good enough.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Does the fan sound like it always did the first 30 seconds after booting? If so, the defect is probably not with the fan but with its ability to sense temperature. Tivos boot with the fan at max, until the boot gets enough of the OS running to where it looks at the temperature and moderates the fan's rpms to the "barely alive" level required to keep it cool. At least with my Premiere, I think it would probably run just fine with the fan disabled - certainly sticking a small slow USB powered fan on the outside by the vent where the real fan is would be good enough.


No it seems to go loudest at boot up then almost dissappeares at "barely alive" when coolest. Then comes back at the "somewhere in the middle" temperature range I guess to a softer but still annoying (for a bedroom environment) buzz or hum and vibration.

Tried the noisy fan fix here for the Roamio ...






To no avail.

So looks like a new fan is needed, which I wouldn't mind so much if I weren't just limited to buying from Weaknees. I know they've always done good work and parts distribution for many years, but they really charge you the $$ for it too.

$39.99 for that small fan and the torx bits which I already have.

https://www.weaknees.com/cart/TiVo-Roamio-and-Roamio-OTA-Replacement-Fan-and-Tools.html

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't know off the top of my head what size fan it uses, but assuming it uses a standard PC fan (either 3 or 4 pin connector, make sure you find out which) you could buy one for about $10 from Newegg. Do a little googling / checking at tivocommunity.com and you can probably find the answers there. Weaknees is marking up a standard fan like they mark up the standard hard drives they sell. Nothing wrong with that, you're paying for not having to do your own research, but if you want to save some money at the cost of a bit of your time you should be able to do so.

Alternatively you could find all that out by removing the old one, measuring it, and counting the pins in the connector...


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## [lurker account] (Aug 8, 2018)

I think the channel logos that DirecTV receivers use are actually fed via a CDN URL something like this:
Directv.com/images/logos/channels/dark/medium/LOGOIDHERE.png


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

[lurker account] said:


> I think the channel logos that DirecTV receivers use are actually fed via a CDN URL something like this:
> Directv.com/images/logos/channels/dark/medium/LOGOIDHERE.png


to prove that, you'll need compare 1000s icons from TV screen and PNGs ...


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

It's not. We wouldn't have a situation where older firmwares have outdated logos, there would be no logos at all for people who don't have their receivers connected to the internet, and channels like MTV Classic (logo_id 240) would still show the VH1 Classic logo:
https://www.directv.com/images/logos/channels/dark/large/240.png


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