# Anyone Else Regret Dropping Tivo to Upgrade to DTV's HD DVR?



## TechMoe (Nov 30, 2008)

After considering it for years, a few weeks ago I finally pulled the trigger on upgrading to DTV's HD service and got two HD DVR's. I have the HR 22 model. I have been using them for a few weeks now and my initial regrets have only grown and I really miss my Tivo boxes. I told myself that I wasn't going to upgrade to HD until DTV released its upcoming Tivo HD DVR box, but for whatever reason, i guess I justwanted Hd programming, so i figured many of the bugs that I had heard about on the HD DVR had been worked out. But now I really wish I had just stuck with my old DTV Tivo boxes and waited until the HD Tivo was released by DTV. 

I mean don't get me wrong, the HD DVR is really not that bad, and its not about learning a new DVR system which I have already done, but its just the way Tivo seemed to be so much more intuitive. The Tivo interface is much better and I didn't seem to have any problems with it and some of my boxes were almost four years old when I upgraded. And I never had problems with the old Tivo boxes that I just gave up. With the DTV HD DVR, I have encountered audio stutter, some pixelation, and my both of my boxes have frozen up at least once or twice requiring reboots and a few days ago one of them just rebooted while I was in the middle of a show. That never happened with my Tivo boxes and i never had to reboot or had audio stutter or sync problems. I know its not anything wrong with my setup as I had a tech come out and check my installation and it is fine. Also I have noticed others have reported many of the same problems especially with audio issues, rebooting, and freezing up. 

I also miss some of the features of the Tivo that I just assumed would be on the HD DVR. The one that I miss the most is dual live buffering which I used constnatly on my Tivo and I was pretty pissed when i foudn out that couldn't be doen with the HD DVR. I have seen some of the so-called workarounds but none of them are any good and nothing beats the ease of toggling between tuners with the press of a button. I really don't get it. I thought one of the biggest advantages of having two tuners is the ability to switch between the two, or pause one tuner while using the other to channel surf or pausing two shows and switching back and forth between the two. Why not have one button on the remote that allows you to easily switch between tuners and also the ability to pause each of the tuners. Its seems like the dual tuners are not really being maximized and one of the only benefits of having it as it is in the HD DVR is the ability to record one show while watching another, but that is just not using the technology to do what it really can-let you totally control your viewing experince. I have seen some debate on here as to whether dual live buffers should be added as a feature, and I don't understand the nay sayers, if you don't use it then don't use it, but alot of us do and it would be great to have it as an option. 

I have also noticed that the HD DVR takes an extra second or two longer when switching channels. And when you go from watching something off the DVR to live TV and then want to go back to the program you were watching, if you hit the list button it takes you back to the top of the list and then you have to scroll down to the show you were just playing to resume watching. I know the "Back" button can take you back to the program you were watching in the DVR and play it right away, but it only works in certain instances and just insn't as intuitive. I also don't lie that programs are automatically grouped into a folder. I know some may prefer that but I really don't like that because I think it slows things down a bit. Tivo allowed you to turn this function on and off so why doesn't the HD DVR. In general I have also noticed less customization or options such as the look of the guide which Tivo offered a list format rather than the grid boxes that is the only option on the DVR. 

Another complaint I will add is that the Tivo remote was far superior. And that is not just me having to get used to the DVR's new button layout. The Tivo remote was much smaller and you could perform most functions without having to slide your hand up and down the remote. I find myself doing this alot more with the DVR remote and its a bit annoying. 

There are a few other minor gripes I have but i won't point them all out. But I think the biggest problems I have are with the DVR's basic ability to deliver programming without audio issues, its lack of stability, and its generally sluggish performance. I am so surprised that after several iterations of the DVR and after having so much time to work on the bugs and improve the system that this is what I have expeienced with the HR 22's. This box feels more like the Comcast box that I used to have and hated for many of the same reasons and it feels like a step back in many ways. 

Actually I do have to mention one last gripe. The DVR does not seem to be doing as good a job with recording a series, I think its called Series Link on the DVR and is called Season Pass on TV. It keeps recording repeats when I tell it to only record first runs. My old Tivo did an excellent job of distinguising between the different showings. 

Now that i have dumped on the DVR so much I should point out some feautes that I like about it that weren't available on the old Tivo box, at least the really old Tivo that I got from DTV several years ago adn that was not updated becausde I had no phone line. I like that with the DVR you don't have to stop watching what you are watching to perform almost all of the menu functions like checking the playlist, changing settings, or even checking out the On Demand options. I didn't like how with the Tivo for some of these things you had to leave what you were watching to go to a seperate screen. Although I think the new Tivo boxes allow you to keep watching TV while doing pretty much everything, that is kind of an assumption and maybe the newest Tivo's dont' let you do that but I'm not sure. Another thing I like on the DVR is that you can set a Series Link or Season Pass as I used to know them by hitting the record button twice rather than having to go to a different menu to set that up. The bookmarking feature is also kind of neat but I don't see myself using it much. The 30 second skip button is also a nice little feature, but I think the forward and rewind functions worked much smoother on the Tivo and I could live without a 30 sec skip button. And having the On Demand feature is a nice thing that I couldn't get on my old DTV Tivo box. 

I should mention that the Tivo boxes I have been talking about are the SD boxes and not the HD one they used to offer before Tivo was dropped by DTV. 

On balnce though, I would give up all the features I like about the DVR that wern't on the old Tivo's I had, even the On Demand which seems to be the best feature that I couldn't get before on my old Tivo. Tivo is just a far superior DVR in my opinion. From the well designed interface to the nicer remote and yes the dual live buffer, I think there is no comparison. 

If I could go back to my old setup, I would do it in a heartbeat and would have rather just waited until DTV released the HD Tivo boxes. From what I have read those new HD Tivo boxes for DTV will be out sometime in the middle of next year, but we all know how that goes and it could be 2010 before we see them. But as soon as they are released, and if I am still a DTV customer, whic is likely, then I am going to toss my HR 22's in the trash and get the HD Tivo's instead. I just hope thatits sooner than later although I anticipate that there will be a major rush for those Tivo boxes and that I'm not the only one who wishes he had waited for a little while longer and just held on to my old Tivo's. 

And I'm sure I will get some responses on here about being in the tank for Tivo or hyping it too much and dumping on the DVR, but I have to say that if you disagree with any of this than I doubt you have used a Tivo or used it for a long enuf time to really see how well it works-its just the best mouse trap out there and its no coincidence that Dish Network ripped off some of Tivo's patents for their own DVR's. 

And when i say i recorded a program I want to be able to say I Tivo'd it and have it be true, rather than really having DVR'd it on my DTV DVR. I know I got a bit greedy there.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

After two years with an number of the Hr2x boxes, I still miss my TIVO. As soon as the new HD Directivo is out, I'm going to get rid of my Hr2xs.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The only thing I miss about my DirecTiVo is DLB.

IMHO, that one feature isn't enough to tip the scales.

I've had HR2x's for almost two years. In the beginning there were many problems and I was sorely missing my TiVo's.

I currently have three HR2x's and TiVo would have to have more than DLB to get me to drop them.

My 2¢.

Mike


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I feel the same as Mike. It only hurts for a little while. I used TiVo's exclusively from 1999-2007 and thought switching was going to be the end of the world. While they're not perfect, if I was offered the ability to swap to an MPEG-4 capable HR10-250 today, I'd probably pass and stick with the HR2x's.

It will be interesting to see how you feel after a year with the HR2x, when you'll actually have that choice.  /steve


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I got the new HR21-700s as a Replacement for my 2 HR10-250s but I kept the units in place to use as backup and for additional storage space and now I have the BEST of BOTH WORLDS!!!

There was NO WAY they were going to get my HR10-250s!!! The installer didn't ask for them as they are LEGACY equipment that nobody wants so I quietly kept them.


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## redrocker (Jan 3, 2007)

With the HR2??? We now have just about everything we wanted to have in our D*TiVo boxes except for some KEY features that TiVo is known for. If we get those features it'l be perfect.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

You will not get DLB or the wonderful TiVo Guide which lets you see what is going on for Channel 2, 5, 11, etc. so you can just page down until you find what you are looking for such as Golf at 4:00 P.M.

Also, the software works much better. When I delete a show where I have multiple shows it doesn't stay in the List where I was but goes thru a sort and I end up at the bottom or wherever that next program is. I want it to stay in that folder and at that position in the Now Playing List so I can migrate downward deleting shows that I no longer need.


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## tbh999 (Dec 11, 2005)

After two years I still miss my Tivo (but I do still have two of them hooked-up). The things I miss the most:
DLB
More than 50 SP - My father got a call from DirecTV to replace his HR10 with an HR2x, he told them no way until they remove the 50 SP limit...
Reliability, I'm never 100% sure that the HR20's will record a show, but I seldom (Can't say never) had that problem with the HR10.
The one good thing is that the HR2x software is constantly improving, there has been numerous software updates, where as the Tivo would get it's fixes once a year or so...(but the Tivo needed less fixing too). Visit the CE section of this forum to see what's in-store for future updates.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

I only miss DLB and even that I wouldn't want to give up one 90 minute buffer for two 30 minute buffers.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

richierich said:


> You will not get DLB or *the wonderful TiVo Guide which lets you see what is going on for Channel 2, 5, 11, etc. so you can just page down until you find what you are looking for such as Golf at 4:00 P.M.*
> 
> Also, the software works much better. When I delete a show where I have multiple shows it doesn't stay in the List where I was but goes thru a sort and I end up at the bottom or wherever that next program is. I want it to stay in that folder and at that position in the Now Playing List so I can migrate downward deleting shows that I no longer need.


If I understand you correctly here is what you can do: in the Dtv guide highlight the channel on the left side, left arrow on the remote, then press the info button, you will get the up coming schedule for that channel.


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## clotter (Apr 12, 2008)

#1 thing I miss the most and always will is dual live buffers. 

#1 thing I'm disappointed with the most is how slooooow the program guide is.


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## jmrwiseguy (Jul 10, 2007)

I haven't seen a DVR yet that does everything exactly the way I want it to but in the few months that I've used the HR21s I believe it has most of what I want. The features lacking for me are MRV (yeah, I know coming soon), DLB, faster response from menus and the ability to delete channels from the current favorites list from the guide without having to go into the menus. I do feel that DTV is doing a good job of updating it and they may address some of my concerns in the near future.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I only miss DLB and even that I wouldn't want to give up one 90 minute buffer for two 30 minute buffers.


I agree, I love the 90 minute buffer. If DLB was added while keeping the 90 minute buffer X2, it would be perfect.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Hang in there. As someone else said, it only hurts for a little while. 

The HR20 has gotten reliable enough that I've stopped duplicating recordings on my remaining HR10. I still don't have as much confidence in it as I do the TiVo, but I haven't missed a recording in quite a while now - other than one Chuck that DTV caused me to miss by forcing a reboot just before prime time.

I still miss a few things about the TiVo. DLB is one, though I never used it heavily so I don't miss it that much. 

I also miss the way the TiVo would intelligently sort folders / groups. I could have the overall List of recordings sorted by Name (alphabetically) and the TiVo would still be smart enough to sort within folders by date so that the next episode in a series was at the top. Not a huge problem, but c'mon guys - its not that hard to fix these kinds of little usability issues that keep the HR2x from going from tolerated to liked or loved as the TiVos were.

As someone who doesn't want or need MRV (I've already run component cables from the living room where the DVR's are to every other room), I wish they'd quit concentrating on new features like MRV until they get the reliability and usability to the same level that the HR10 has had for several years now.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Regret? No way. I get 100+ HD channels and I can record and playback my programs just like I did on my Tivo's for 8 years. I don't need much else more then that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TechMoe,

First, thank you for your post. I'm sure it took some time for you to write that and it was very well thought out.

You're familiarity with the new user interface will only get better over time .. It seems for most people it takes about a month to really get a feel for it so hopefully this will come true for you as well.

DLB is a feature that many folks want .. In fact there is a monster thread here that is often on the page-1 listing talking about this very subject. For me, I do not regret the switch, no. I've had all HD in the house for over 2 years now and it's been great.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I still have a TiVo. Reboots daily. Not as perfect as some folks claim.


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## Crimson (Dec 9, 2006)

I switched when the HR-20 first came out. It was a complete disaster then. DirecTV has made it into a great device now. I absolutely do not regret giving up my TIVO now. I hope that they don't cancel their HR-2x line now that Tivo is coming back I like it so much.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

The Tivo thing will mean charges for both the DVR service & a charge to Tivo to use their service, correct?


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## Tinymon (Sep 21, 2007)

Having HD far outweighs any disadvantage of switching from TIVO to a DTV box.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDJulie said:


> The Tivo thing will mean charges for both the DVR service & a charge to Tivo to use their service, correct?


The older DirecTivos are charged the same $5.99 DVR fee per household.

The new HD DirecTivo's DVR fee has not be announced yet.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I've pretty much gotten used to HD as "the norm" and only notice it when I switch to a bad SD show. Then ten minutes later i'm used to the bad SD shows video quality and paying more attention to the content.

Once in a while you see something and notice it. Panoramic sweeps over pretty terrain, seeing the individual blades of grass during a football game, noticing that they didnt do a particularly good job of evening up some newscasters makeup.

If I knew what I know now when I made the change, I'd have stuck with the old directivo's until the new tivo unit came out and then evaluated the price, features and reported performance of the new units. I was 99% sure I wouldnt get an HD tivo option from directv and didnt feel like biting off a thousand bucks to buy a standalone tivo to hook up to cable, so I went with what I thought was my only option to get HD.

Now that I've had HD and watched it a while, I like it but I could have done without it. I certainly wouldnt have missed all the glitches, hiccups, crashes, reboots, guide data causing the boxes to do backflips off the tv set, etc.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

The HD Tivo took about 5 minutes to reorder season passes and about 1.5 minutes to just hit the record button.

To me, the HR2x series rocks the HR10-250. and I was a major-league TiVo fanboy. I still have my TiVo plush toy from my time as a beta tester (very good days, by the way!)


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> The HD Tivo took about 5 minutes to reorder season passes and about 1.5 minutes to just hit the record button.
> 
> To me, the HR2x series rocks the HR10-250. and I was a major-league TiVo fanboy. I still have my TiVo plush toy from my time as a beta tester (very good days, by the way!)


I have to respectfully disagree with you here. This is one area where the TiVo r_cks and the HR2x s_cks, IMHO. :lol:

With the version 6.x upgrade, re-ordering my 35-40 HR10-250 DirecTiVo Season's Passes only took 15-30 seconds on a box with a slower processor and less memory than the HR2x. And any time you scheduled a recording, a season's pass, a wishlist autorecord or re-ordered the prioritizer, the TiVo ToDo List was updated in real time with all matches in the current GUIDE data. With the HR2x, it's a crapshoot, at best, as to what will or won't make it to the To Do list, and you have to check it at least once a day to make sure what you expect to record will actually be recording! And that's a shame, because the HR2x Boolean SEARCH operators are much more capable then TiVo Wish List options (at least vs. the last time I used a TiVo, 18 months ago).

Just my .02... and I still use my oversized TiVo coffee mug almost every day.  /steve


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## chuck1996 (Jun 28, 2007)

The one feature that I've come to prefer on my HR22 vs Tivo, is the 90 minute live buffer vs 30 minutes for Tivo. Just my $.02.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

I was leary about switching from HD-TIVO but did it a few months ago. Got 2 HR21's.

After a couple days, I was used to the HR21's.
No big trauma, and much that I like about it.
I don't regret swapping.

The only things about the HR21 (vs. HD-TIVO) that I don't like are:
 Lack of DLB's.
 50 limit on series recordings.
 The crappy D* software operation that continually screws things up (but that's not the HR21's fault, it's D*'s fault).
If they could fix those 3 things, then the change would be a net win.


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## OneOfOne (Sep 19, 2006)

maybe its just me, but why on earth does anyone need 50 season passes?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

OneOfOne said:


> maybe its just me, but why on earth does anyone need 50 season passes?


Households with "His", "Hers" and "Kids" shows.

Even in my 2-person household, where the wife's shows and mine overlap about 2/3 of the time, we could use room for 60 shows in the PRIORITZER. We probably only actively record 35 at a time, with the other shows being on hiatus or in re-runs. /steve


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## morphy (Jun 5, 2007)

While I certainly miss having an interface that doesn't remind me of firing up a new cart in my Atari 2600 (like the HR20/21's does), I gotta go with the Mpeg4 channels.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

OneOfOne said:


> maybe its just me, but why on earth does anyone need 50 season passes?


For the exact same reason that you "need" sat TV: because people like it ;-)

2 person household here. Of the 50:
 Not-quite-20 are used for things one or both of us want grabbed every week. (We almost never watch anything live.)
 Another handful are for sports-related things I want grabbed whenever they show up.
 Another handful as above, but for specific music-people, not sports.
 The remainder are used for misc things I want it to grab if/when they show up (so I don't have to be eagle-eyed about what's coming on when).
I was very surprised when I hit the 50 limit. It doesn't seem like I want it to get that much stuff... but I do.
Many of them are of the last category above: A convenience to help me catch something that comes around once in a while.
This is a case of using a computer device to remember stuff for me... which is one thing computers are great at.
Too bad D* won't let me use their in-box computer in this way like the HD-TIVO did.

The 50-limit causes me to sacrifice that last category of stuff, that one specific advantage of using computers: having an ample "shopping list" of items that are not regularly scheduled, but which I want to see whenever they come around. The fact that I can't do that seems very silly to me (not to mention the fact that its a needless frustration).

The box is basically a computer, and the wishlist items take up miniscule space. The whole thing worked fine in the HD-TIVO with much larger lists, etc. 
I can't believe that there is a substantive obstacle to getting past the arbitrary 50-limit, especially since they have 100GB of HDD to place with.
However, I have become acclimated to D* acting like they don't give a damn, so I'm not holding my breath.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

OneOfOne said:


> maybe its just me, but why on earth does anyone need 50 season passes?


We have SL's for these kinds of channels:

Networks
HIST/DISC/TLC/SCI Channels
HBO
SCIFI
USA

Here are some of the problems:

Well some of these channels have split seasons such as "Monk" or "Psych".
Some have shows that air in the summer when the networks are off.
My wife watches GH.
My daughter watches ANIME and other shows that we don't.
My wife & daughter watch shows together such as "Trading Spaces"
We have several shows that we have a SL for that we just watch certain episodes. We look through the 'TODO' list to pick-n-choose(e.g. FoodTV or a series where we missed a few episodes).
At any given point in time we aren't using all of the SL's but they have to stay in the Priortizer.

Suprisingly it isn't too difficult to reach 50 with several people having SLs. :grin:

Mike


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I went back to a Directivo for a few months and cannot stand it anymore (at relatives house). So many little things I miss from my HR2x that I think is so much easier to use personally.


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## TechMoe (Nov 30, 2008)

I am kind of surprised that so many of you really like the HR2x's, but I must say its not a bad box and I would take it any day over not having a DVR. I think we all use our DVR's in different ways, and I really used the dual live buffer a lot, pretty much every time I watched TV so i got so used to having it. And I don't really care about the 90 minute buffer and would rather have dlb with 30 minute buffer if I had to choose. If I am gonna pause something for that long I just hit the record button andI don't like pausing stuff for long in case it burns an image into my plasma. 

I think the HR2x's have come a long way and the reason i waited till now is becaue of all the disaster stroeis I read and I figured it would be better to just wait while the bugs are fixed. But now I wish I would have waited a little longer and just upgraded when the Tivo HD boxes came out. But as someone pointed out, maybe I'll feel differently in a few months or whenever the Tivo boxes do come out. But I can't tell you how often I think of using the dual live buffer only to be annoyed that I can't with the HR22. One thing I was wondering about is is it not possible for DTV to add dlb to their DVR's because it would be stealing one of Tivo's patents? Is dlb exlusive to Tivo and they would likely sue DTV as they did Dish Network if they included this feature? I mean it could explain why they haven't added DLB to this point, and if true would mean that they never will. Anyone know about this? 

Another funciton of dual live buffer is that it just allowed you to switch to the other tuner to see what was reocrding without having to go to the playlist. Sometimes I would just rather cancel what I was recording and keep wathcing what I am watching, which can be done with the HR22, but not as easily as was possible with Tivo using the dlb. 

I mean I am glad to hear that Tivo will be an option at some point if I want to switch back, but right now I think I definitely will. I'm wondering though if the upcoming HD Tivo will have many of the features of the standalone Tivo, like being able to download movies from Amazon, being able to watch Youtube Vids and use other internet apps. I imagine DTV will not want to have some of these features, especially movie downloads from Amazon as it will take away from their own On Demand. 
To those who say they prefer all the HD channels, I can understand and that is a good point, although how many of those channels do you really watch. I'd bet most people watch the major broadcast nets in HD and maybe a handful of other cable channels like Bravo and TNT and the rest, but I have noticed that there are many channels on DTV and everywhere else I guess that have hardly any HD programming and that it is almost misleading to call them HD because hardly any of their programming is. So hoenstly I could have waited a little longer on the HD, especially since the SD channels look like crap and so much of the stuff people watch is still in SD. 

DTV has a while to make further upgrades and I really hope they add some of the features that have been discussed here. I also hope they do something about the speed of the box. One thing Tivo had over the HR2x's is that there wasn't as much lag and response time was so much better. This is something I would have thought wouldn't have been an issue with such a late iteration of the HD DVR, so I'm surprised it still is slow to respond at times and generally more sluggish than I woudl have imagined. This issue is really frustrating when it comes to searching through the On Demand titles because there are so many categories and it just feels like it takes forever sometimes to move thru the categories and quickly see what is available. The first time I used On Demand I tolerated it b/c I wanted to see what was avaialble, but now I find myself going to On Demand and then getting frustrated with the sluggishness so i just exit out of it. I seriously don't get why this is still an issue. As someonenoted earlier, these boxes are just computers, and we know how fast computers have gotten. So is it just a matter of hardware not having enuf juice or software not managing things well? 

I should also mention that one thing I like about the HR 22 is the On Demand and ability to download stuff, and I like how the download progress shows up in the playlist. It gives the box a sort of "live" or "connected" feeling which was missing from the old Tivo. But I am sure the upcoming Tivo will have the ability to connecto the net and do this as well. What I don't like and what someone else mentioned is how you cannot organize the playlist as you would like. For instance, i would like to have my On Demand stuff downloaded to a different area then my general playlist. They could create a tab at the top next to the existing tabs for VOD stuff and all that stuff will just go straight to that tab. It makes sense to me and seems more intuitive. I find that my playlist seems t be more cluttered and not as streamlined now. Also even though I like the ability to delete an entire folder, I have accidently deleted entire folders which deleted an episode that I still hadn't seen by accident so maybe an extra warning tha all episodes will be deleted would be nice but I think this is just something I will have to get used to and won't happen once I really get comfortable with the box. 

Its gonna be interesting to see what will happen with the HR2x's once the Tivo comes out. My feeling though is that DTV will offer both boxes and the HR2x's will be the standard option and the Tivo will be the premium DVR that will likely require an extra fee. I think DTV will want to have its own units in place, becuae they have invested so much time into them and who knows what will happen with their relationship with Tivo down the road. Comcast has begun offering a Tivo enabled DVR in some markets instead of only offering their crappy generic DVR boxes. And the way they have done it is offer the generic DVR as the standard and the Tivo boxes as a premium DVR costing a few extra bucks. 

It will defintely be interesting to see what happens with the upcomign HD Tivo box, the HR2x's and I really love having the ability to discuss this with all of you. Good times!

-TechMoe


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## TechMoe (Nov 30, 2008)

Oh yeah, forgot one thing. Does anyone know why there is that restriction on SP or Series Link? I mean these boxes have a ton of space. As many have pointed out, with a multiple person household, its very easy to hit hat limit and I find myself having to choose between shows that I want and whos that i really want. But this limit seems totally arbitrary and I don't get why it is there. Anyone have an idea as to why they would have done this and why they haven't removed it with one of their software updates.

I also second whoever said that DTV should work on getting the basics right, which I know they have done too a great extent aand they have come a long way, but improving the speed of the box is more important to me than MRV or DirecTV2PC. I know some people are using those features and I think I will eventually, but lets maximize the experience for when you are in fron tof the TV and actually watching before adding more advanced features that seem to create more problems that then need to be fixed.


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## haggis444 (Jan 21, 2004)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> TI still have my TiVo plush toy from my time as a beta tester (very good days, by the way!)





Steve said:


> and I still use my oversized TiVo coffee mug almost every day.


Man, all I got was a TiVo! apron. :crying_sa


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Gave up the DirecTIVO's back in Nov 2006 and never looked back. I have 4 HR2x's and they all work fine for me.


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## HiDuck (Jul 15, 2008)

I am four months into my HR21 and still miss my DirecTivo (actually its still fired up with some programing to watch) but I completely see my HR21 in a different light than when I first had it installed. 

The biggest change is that I have HD programing and love it. I have had a 36" Sony XBR CRT for seven years and never, until my HR21, used the 1080i port. Wow what a difference in the picture!

I have a second D* legacy reciever hooked up to a 2nd generation TiVo in the bedroom that I have lifetime subscription on. I have been waiving back and forth knowing MRV is in the works very soon for the HR series receivers and having another one replace my standalone TiVo. But now with the possibility of a new HD Tivo for D* I will probably hold off until release in hopes of true ownership instead of the lease program. If this plays the way I think it will the HR21 will disappear for two D* HDTivo's.

Until then I am happy with the HR21 and will continue to support it through the Cutting Edge program we have here at DBSTALK.com.


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## bodosom (May 31, 2004)

I'll admit that I've only had the HR2xs for a week but I've already found a number of "silly" annoyances like wasting limited screen real-estate on PIP or showing me things five at a time when there's room for ten or not giving me one or two click access to my todo list. I'd like it if when my SL, playlist or todo list got past a certain size the behavior would change to optimize longer listings. I don't use the DLB but I do like the ability to peek at the other tuner recording or not.

Of course both native interfaces are woefully deficient compared to something powerful like TiVoweb.

I mean really -- how hard can it be although I have to admit that TiVo made it easy by writing much of the internal framework in TCL.

I will keep my HR10s at least until the new DirecTiVo is released.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ME TOO!!!


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

I have to admit, my eyes glossed over reading the original post. :grin: So I'll just reply to the title. No, I certainly don't regret getting the HR21s... it was the only way to get all the new HD programming. That's not to say that I'm not _disapointed _in the HR21, and that I'm not looking forward to the new TiVo offering. My TiVos have simply been more reliable than my HR21s. BUT, the HR21s haven't been as bad lately as they were. Come to find out one of them had a flaky hard drive. Once I replaced it, it got much better (though I'm still bitter about DirecTV's crappy warranty). Hopefully they will continue to improve, and maybe even match the TiVo's reliability.


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

It is BS how people associate the HR-20 series with the HD channels putting that as an advantage. The reason we all switched was because we could not get HD with the tivo units nd there were no new units in development. It was more of a switch if you want current TV not a choice. It's like driving a 95 car that you like and they refuse to sell parts for it and you are forced to buy a new car.

That being said, the unit is OK, like others I miss the DLB and the prioritizer sucks. Tivo wouldn't miss shows that were on at the same time. If the shows over lapped and one was repeated during the week it would record the one that wasn't repeated over the one that was and grab the other later in the week.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

To paraphrase an old Remington shaver commercial:

I disliked the HR20 so much I left the company. :lol:


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## DrestinBlack (Oct 30, 2008)

Let me join the voices of dissatisfaction with the DTV HD-DVRs and express how much I miss my old Tivo HD DVR. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn close! And not just because I had it first and got used to it. I tried everything that came out and just found myself going back because it was the easiest to use and just made sense how it worked.

Like others I miss the DLB
I miss how the guide works and the ability to, in a meaningful way, search for upcoming shows. As an example, on my old Tivo with the same DTV service/package I was recording so much I would constantly hit a disk full condition. On the DTV version I never do and I probably record only 30% as many shows because they are so hard to fine. I used to set aside time on a Sunday to go through my Fav channels and find programs to record for the upcoming week so easily and quickly on the Tivo. On the DTV version? Forget it. I've stopped doing it.

That long paragraph should basically be about the fact that the Tivo not only was easier to use but it just made sense how it worked. You could show someone how to use every feature and trick of a Tivo in a single evening. With the DTV version, even the remote is so crippled, that I have printed out cheat sheets laying around to remind me of tricks I need to do to do basic Tivo things and I've given up trying to help friends get more out of their DTV DVR, it's pointless. Several have switched to Comcast cable - not because Comcast is better or that their DVR is better - but simply to punish DTV. We have to pay more for DTV servie in order to receive less - what is wrong with us/them?

I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that if we had a choice NO ONE would have switched from their Tivo to these junky units. They are slower and hard to use - the ONLY thing they bring to the game is access to the newer channels. DTV knew exactly what they were doing. Kicking people off Tivo and onto their own platform.

Reminds me of the early days of cable internet. You wanted highspeed, you had one choice. I suffered with @home cable for years before DSL with decent speed made inroads and then jumped as did many folks. Oh, THEN Comcast suddenly started upping speeds and improving their service.

DTV locks you into a single receiver, without competition they lack motivation to upgrade and improve things. Very frustrating...


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## krusty (Oct 1, 2007)

I switched to the HR-2x boxes because it was the only way to get the new HD lineup. I also do like a lot of the features of the new boxes. I've managed to get all of the unique features to work like media center, VOD and now Directv2PC. Frankly I was very surprised when they kept 30 second skip. They probably figured, correctly, that they would lose subs in droves over that.

However, I'm really getting tired of the frequent RBR's, often several times a day, even immediately after I just rebooted. My HR10-250 was very reliable. I only hope when the new ones come out they build some of the features I like now into it. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure there will be some sort of additional fees. They do love to find new and creative ways to nickel & dime us. It should be interesting to see what lame toll they come up with.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

stogie5150 said:


> To paraphrase an old Remington shaver commercial:
> 
> I disliked the HR20 so much I left the company. :lol:


Yeah, but you didn't move to a different "pay-for" company you went to totally Free .. perhaps your glasses are a bit shaded towards the pay-for aspect of DIRECTV.


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## Crimson (Dec 9, 2006)

DrestinBlack said:


> Let me join the voices of dissatisfaction with the DTV HD-DVRs and express how much I miss my old Tivo HD DVR. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn close! And not just because I had it first and got used to it. I tried everything that came out and just found myself going back because it was the easiest to use and just made sense how it worked.
> 
> Like others I miss the DLB
> I miss how the guide works and the ability to, in a meaningful way, search for upcoming shows. As an example, on my old Tivo with the same DTV service/package I was recording so much I would constantly hit a disk full condition. On the DTV version I never do and I probably record only 30% as many shows because they are so hard to fine. I used to set aside time on a Sunday to go through my Fav channels and find programs to record for the upcoming week so easily and quickly on the Tivo. On the DTV version? Forget it. I've stopped doing it.
> ...


What fantasy land are you living in? DTV has been adding features to the HR-2x line since inception.. My HR-20 that I got when it was first released is not even close to what it is today. If this is how DTV acts when it has no competition, I look forward to Tivo coming back because then I will be absolutely in heaven.


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## TechMoe (Nov 30, 2008)

DrestinBlack said:


> Let me join the voices of dissatisfaction with the DTV HD-DVRs and express how much I miss my old Tivo HD DVR. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn close! And not just because I had it first and got used to it. I tried everything that came out and just found myself going back because it was the easiest to use and just made sense how it worked.
> 
> Like others I miss the DLB
> I miss how the guide works and the ability to, in a meaningful way, search for upcoming shows. As an example, on my old Tivo with the same DTV service/package I was recording so much I would constantly hit a disk full condition. On the DTV version I never do and I probably record only 30% as many shows because they are so hard to fine. I used to set aside time on a Sunday to go through my Fav channels and find programs to record for the upcoming week so easily and quickly on the Tivo. On the DTV version? Forget it. I've stopped doing it.
> ...


Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You said exactly what i was trying to say. I don't know why so many people have a hard time admitting that one product is better than another. I understand that if you have only used the DTV DVR/HD DVR, then you only know that platform and don''t know any other experience. I have used many DVR's out there, from ReplayTV many years ago, to Comcast's generic DVR, to Dish Netowrks DVR's, and now DTV's DVR and of course Tivo. So I am not just speaking with no experience with what is out there. I think yes there is no perfect unit that will fulfill everyone's needs, but if there is one DVR that comes closest its the Tivo. Its no coincidence that Tivo is the most popular DVR out there and if all the cable companies and Dish and DTV could, they would just rip off the Tivo interface and functioanlity and practiclly make a Tivo knock off. Hell, Dish tried to do that and ended up getting sued. Tivo is the best out there and if it went head to head with any other DVR there would be no competition.

The people at Tivo just built the best mousetrap and everyone else is trying to build a better one but to date none have been able to.

And I totally agree with the poster who oted that its total BS that people tout the extra HD channels as a nice benefit of the HD DVR. As mentioned its not like we had a choice, and do you really think that if DTV maintained its relationsihip with Tivo and released an MPEG 4 HD Tivo that anyone would have chosen the DTV DVR over the Tivo. I seriously doubt it. DTV wanted to force everyone onto a platform they could totally control and one way they did that was by making getting all the HD channels could only be done with their DVR.

And the gripes I have heard about Tivo seem to be knit picking and not accurate in some instances. There are far more annoying quirks with the DTV HD DVR than I ever had with Tivo and I think thats the case for most former Tivo users who migrated to the new HD DVR. And remember that DTV's DVR was launched several years ago and the HD DVR was essentially the same DVR funtioanlity wiht a bigger hard drive and some added HD capability. Meaning that they have had a very long time to make the product much better and althoughI realie they have come a long way, I think that is in large part because they started off so poorly.

I'm glad that there are many that are happy with the DTV DVR because that means that when the HD Tivo box finally comes out, there will be less people trying to get their hands on one and maybe I might be able to get mine when they come out. Although I have a feeling that many of the people on here boasting about how much they love their HR2x's and don't miss Tivo will be some of the first to try and get the new HD Tivo boxes when they come out.


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## jediphish (Dec 4, 2005)

What is this TiVo thing you're talking about? Oh yeah, I remember having one of those that I used to shine with a diaper every day. I have no need for one now... HR2X works just fine, plus I like the program.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Not for one minute, matter of fact I have a working DirecTivo here next to my desk using it as a blockade to prevent over zealous flings of kitty litter from our cat from hitting my feet.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TechMoe said:


> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You said exactly what i was trying to say. I don't know why so many people have a hard time admitting that one product is better than another.


 so the fact that some of us like the HR2x platform better means what? Believe it or not many of us here really do think that the HR2x is the better product. Even though you may never feel that way, others do.


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## mshug259 (Dec 11, 2007)

TechMoe said:


> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You said exactly what i was trying to say. I don't know why so many people have a hard time admitting that one product is better than another. I understand that if you have only used the DTV DVR/HD DVR, then you only know that platform and don''t know any other experience. I have used many DVR's out there, from ReplayTV many years ago, to Comcast's generic DVR, to Dish Netowrks DVR's, and now DTV's DVR and of course Tivo. So I am not just speaking with no experience with what is out there. I think yes there is no perfect unit that will fulfill everyone's needs, but if there is one DVR that comes closest its the Tivo. Its no coincidence that Tivo is the most popular DVR out there and if all the cable companies and Dish and DTV could, they would just rip off the Tivo interface and functioanlity and practiclly make a Tivo knock off. Hell, Dish tried to do that and ended up getting sued. Tivo is the best out there and if it went head to head with any other DVR there would be no competition.
> 
> The people at Tivo just built the best mousetrap and everyone else is trying to build a better one but to date none have been able to.
> 
> ...


+1


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I had some issues with the UI for a month or so when I changed over, but now the onluy thing I really miss is hte ability to have more than 50 things in the list at a time. WE have compensated by having 4 different HD DVRs int eh house, but it would still be easier if we did not have to constantly cull things off the main unit when new shows start up.

I do still agree that the TiVO interface is more intuitive with things being grouped together under headings that just make sense (unlike some of the things on the HR2x where it almost seems like they did things just to play with us  ). I really think it comes down to teh fact that the TiVO was designed from the ground up to record shows and watch things that are recorded - it is actually a poor channel surfing reciever. The HR20 was designed by the same people who designed Live TV only receivers and they conciously chose to keep the menu similar, so that impacts much of the interface.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee L said:


> I had some issues with the UI for a month or so when I changed over, but now the only thing I really miss is the ability to have more than 50 things in the list at a time. WE have compensated by having 4 different HD DVRs in the house, but it would still be easier if we did not have to constantly cull things off the main unit when new shows start up.
> 
> I do still agree that the TiVO interface is more intuitive with things being grouped together under headings that just make sense (unlike some of the things on the HR2x where it almost seems like they did things just to play with us  ). I really think it comes down to the fact that the TiVO was designed from the ground up to record shows and watch things that are recorded - it is actually a poor channel surfing reciever. The HR20 was designed by the same people who designed Live TV only receivers and they conciously chose to keep the menu similar, so that impacts much of the interface.


I never thought about it like you have mentioned but that makes alot of sense to me. The way things are designed in the Menu sucks. I like the way you are thinking.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

I'm not going to knock the Tivo's. I never had HD with a tivo, but I've had SD tivos for years, and I really liked them, and I had very few problems with them. If this was 2 years ago and an MPEG4 Tivo was on the horizon, my attitude might be different... When I first switched over to the HR2x, I wasn't a particularly happy camper - and I've had next to NO problems with the HR2x. It wasn't a performance issue, but rather "It wasn't a TIVO".

My 2 year anniversary of my first HR2x was several months ago, and in what I admit is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, the HR2x is far superior to any of the tivo's I had (granted, they were all old, old SD boxes, so take that for what it's worth).

I wouldn't mind DLB, though that's not a deal breaker for me. But, that's really the only feature that I miss even a little bit. Originally, I missed the overall feel of the GUI, but now, when I go back and use a Tivo, it feels "cartoony" to me.... SO, to answer the original question.... not one ounce of regret. I'm oficially a convert and I'm completely happy with my switch.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Good morning all...

Thank you for keeping this thread reasonable and respectful. That is the primary reason it stays open, despite my initial concern.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> the wonderful TiVo Guide which lets you see what is going on for Channel 2, 5, 11, etc. so you can just page down until you find what you are looking for such as Golf at 4:00 P.M.


Bring up the guide and go to the channel you want to see. Once you are there press left to highlight the channel number. With the channel number highlighted in the guide press "info". Bingo, you now know what's coming up on that channel and can scroll down thru that channel instead of having to go left in the guide.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have never used a TiVo but I don't feel any need for any of its features.

I can see why the 50 Series Links limit is a biggie to some, but we have a total of about 7 SLs programmed so the limit is no problem here.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Bring up the guide and go to the channel you want to see. Once you are there press left to highlight the channel number. With the channel number highlighted in the guide press "info". Bingo, you now know what's coming up on that channel and can scroll down thru that channel instead of having to go left in the guide.


See been using a HRx for years and there is one tip I missed.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Bring up the guide and go to the channel you want to see. Once you are there press left to highlight the channel number. With the channel number highlighted in the guide press "info". Bingo, you now know what's coming up on that channel and can scroll down thru that channel instead of having to go left in the guide.


I use that as it is the Closest thing to what I have on my HR10-250s but you still have to wait while it populates the list whereas all I had to do was toggle from channel to channel and I could instantly see a list of the show for the next 5 hours or so and then just toggle down to the next channel. Very fast and efficient.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

After spending Thanksgiving weekend at my cottage using my old trusty HR10-250, I enjoyed it so much, that I brought it home with me yesterday. The HR21-100 is about to get mothballed and the HR10-250 is going back into everyday service. The HR10-250 is MUCH faster in every area. I've grown very tired of pressing a button on the remote for the HR21 and then counting to five before deciding if the button press actually took. 

Now instead of waiting around for a new Tivo HD-DVR I can have one immediately. My HR10-250 has been slightly modified, so it'll be nice to once again have MRV, DLB (with two 90-minute buffers), insertion/extraction of videos to my PC, a dependable way to access my JPGs/MP3s, and a 750GB hard drive. 

My wife and I generally watch about 95% of programming off the locals, and since I get good OTA reception, I'll be able to record all 7 of my local channels in HD, instead of the 4 I get from DirecTV. Also, my kids mostly watch cartoons, and I'm tired of having HD versions of SD programs fill up my DVR. I think I'm also going to downgrade to the Family Package and remove HD access from my account, saving me $35 or so a month. And I'll be getting, what, about 6-8 fewer channels in HD.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

IMO, the HR10-250 DirecTiVo didn't try to be anything more than a TV/PPV recording and watching machine.

The HR2x is trying to be a "media center", that offers several 'interactive channels", playback of networked audio and video files, video on demand, multi-room viewing (soon) and oh, by the way, you can also watch and record PPV and TV shows on it.

So the way I see it, the DirecTiVo UI offered maybe 50 functions, 99.9% of which always worked as expected. The HR2x UI offers maybe 75 functions, and only 95% of them always work as expected, IMHO. This is a big improvement, though, because a year ago I would have said that only 90% work as expected.

So one's view of how happy they are with the HR2x will depend on whether or not the features that are important to them are in the 5% that don't (or don't always) work as expected. Just my .02. /steve


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

I don't miss my Tivo either. I have 4 Hrxx's and love them. The new Tivo is going to be on the HRxx platform. Would you pay more for the UI? DLB isn't a deal breaker for me. That's all I miss about Tivo. That's only on Sundays when Football is on! Just my .02


Edit : I used my 2000th post on that


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MIAMI1683 said:


> The new Tivo is going to be on the HRxx platform.


Got a source for that?

I'd be very surprised if the new DirecTiVo isn't just an update of the old HR10-250 motherboard design, hopefully with a faster CPU, more memory and MPEG-4 capable decoder chips.

Congrats on 2k, btw!  /steve


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Steve said:


> Got a source for that?
> 
> I'd be very surprised if the new DirecTiVo isn't just an update of the old HR10-250 motherboard design, hopefully with a faster CPU, more memory and MPEG-4 capable decoder chips.
> 
> Congrats on 2k, btw!  /steve


I'd imagine that he's basing this on the DirecTV press release...



> Under the terms of the non--exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform.
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4900010


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

The only exposure that I've had to Tivo was the original DirecTivo HD DVR - and what a piece of crap that was! Horribly slow menus and guide, no audio/video when in menus or the guide, channels dropping off of Favorites lists, etc. My HR2x is much better.

My DirecTivo is still in my garage because I haven't gotten around to taking a sledge hammer to it...

I don't understand the fascination with Tivo. IMO, Ultimate TV set the highwater DVR standard - and that was years ago.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> I think I'm also going to downgrade to the Family Package and remove HD access from my account, saving me $35 or so a month.


I could be wrong here, even if you are going to watch OTA HD only you have to have the HD package don't you?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, you could always feed the OTA HD right into your TV. As far as the HD Access requirement for OTA, I'm not 100% sure.


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## Packersrule (Sep 10, 2007)

I really miss my black and white TV. Let me tell you those were the days.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

jodyguercio said:


> I could be wrong here, even if you are going to watch OTA HD only you have to have the HD package don't you?


I've never had to in the past. Maybe that is the case for the HR2x series, but it certainly wasn't true in the past for the HR10-250.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't regret dropping the Tivo in favor of the HR2X platform. Like others, I had learning curve issues at the onset, but since have found the unit to be very solid. Is it perfect, NO, there are issues. Was the Tivo perfect, no, but it was damn close.

As I have commented in other similar threads in the past, I still think the Tivo interface is simply more intuitive and easier to simply pick up the remote and start using it.

However, at this point, I'm very happy with the additional features and functionality present in the HR2X platform. Would I trade this for an HR10-250 equivalent that supported MPEG4, NO, there is too much additional functionality in the HR2X platform. Would I trade my HR2Xs for the future HD Tivo, only time will tell, but HD DirecTivo has to first catchup and then provide some compelling reason to make the switch.


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

TechMoe said:


> I have also noticed that the HD DVR takes an extra second or two longer when switching channels. And when you go from watching something off the DVR to live TV and then want to go back to the program you were watching, if you hit the list button it takes you back to the top of the list and then you have to scroll down to the show you were just playing to resume watching. I know the "Back" button can take you back to the program you were watching in the DVR and play it right away, but it only works in certain instances and just insn't as intuitive.


To switch back-and-forth between a recorded program and a live program, use the previous button. It will immediately pick up where you left off on the recording if you only switch between it and one live program at a time.

I don't regret switching at all about two years ago. I've been enjoying HD programing, which is far more important than having the perfect DVR.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

say-what said:


> I'd imagine that he's basing this on the DirecTV press release...


On teh other hand, the very next line of the same PR reads:



DirecTV PR said:


> TiVo will develop the *new HD DVR* for an expected launch in the second half of 2009.


And the next paragraph reads:



DirecTV PR said:


> DIRECTV will continue to develop and offer its *own* portfolio of industry leading *set top boxes* as primary offerings to both new and existing customers. *This new TiVo box* will be offered as an alternative choice to those DIRECTV customers who would like to add TiVo to a full line up of DIRECTV services.


Bold emphasis is mine.

I think the PR is written in such a way that just about anything could end up happening, but the language they used in it is certainly is not definitive support that the TiVo software will be on an HR2x. In fact, just going by the words in the PR, which I'll be the first to admit may have been written purely by Investor Relations with virtually no technical vetting, supports the exact opposite.

At any rate, the TiVO and the HR2x have a different menu structure that does take some adjustment. I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Guide from this site about switching from the HR10 to the HR20 was very helpful to me and I would suggest that anyone switching at least read over it or print a copy to keep by the remote for a couple of weeks.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

davel said:


> If the shows over lapped and one was repeated during the week it would record the one that wasn't repeated over the one that was and grab the other later in the week.


Hmmm, strange, mine do that all the time. For example Mythbusters is often bumped for higher priority network programming and it picks up the later showing at 11.

Oh well...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

DrestinBlack said:


> I used to set aside time on a Sunday to go through my Fav channels and find programs to record for the upcoming week so easily and quickly on the Tivo. On the DTV version? Forget it. I've stopped doing it.


Hmmm, very easy to do on an HR2x. In fact it's faster then on a Tivo. Take HBO for example. Pull up the guide, go to HBO, left arrow to highlight the channel number and hit Info button. Within a couple seconds you'll have 2 weeks of guide data for HBO. One button record a dozen movies over the next 2 weeks in just a minute or so.

Left arrow, move down to Showtime, rinse and repeat.

Seems easy enough to me and very quick, especially with one touch record. And all the while I can keep the game on in the PIG keeping an eye on it. 

I understand you like it the way it was. But if you learn the way to do it on the new DVR you might just fine it easier or nicer. Or at least good enough perhaps.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

whitepelican said:


> I've grown very tired of pressing a button on the remote for the HR21 and then counting to five before deciding if the button press actually took.


If that's the case that is not normal. I'd suggest that you get the HR21 replaced.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> If that's the case that is not normal. I'd suggest that you get the HR21 replaced.


Already taken care of. I just replaced it with the HR10-250.


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## xIsamuTM (Jul 8, 2008)

I can't wait until the MPEG-4 Tivo comes out. I'm not a big proponent of either system, but I'm all for new equipment. Whatever the masses want, ne?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> Already taken care of. I just replaced it with the HR10-250.


Ok....

Not to put words in Scott's post but I think he meant that the remote response is abnormal and should be looked at.

I have 3 HR2x's and they don't do that when they're on the NR.

Seriously, that is a problem that should be fixed.

Mike


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Not I.

In fact, a couple of months after getting my first HR20, I sold my Directivos and got 2 more HR21's I liked them so much better. Last February was the first time in 8 years that I was tivo free and I've yet to look back.


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## xIsamuTM (Jul 8, 2008)

my dad's hr20-xxx reset itself for the first time on record 2 nights past.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Ok....
> 
> Not to put words in Scott's post but I think he meant that the remote response is abnormal and should be looked at.
> 
> ...


Well, maybe I'll get around to it in time. But for now, I'm going to be very happy to be back with the HR10-250. For what it's worth, I also have an HR20-100 in my bedroom and that one works fine, and is probably about equal in speed to the HR10-250, but I (and to a much larger extent my wife) still prefer the Tivo UI. In fact, I'd probably still only have DirecTivos throughout my house right now, except for the fact that I wanted to take advantage of a SWM-8 to run dual tuners in places where I only had one wire.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

whitepelican said:


> Already taken care of. I just replaced it with the HR10-250.


Oh yea, that'll show DirecTV. I'm sure they feel the burn...oh wait, you're still a sub and giving them tons of money per month. 

Seriously, as Mirco pointed out, if your receiver is doing that then something is wrong with it. Get it replaced, for free.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Oh yea, that'll show DirecTV. I'm sure they feel the burn...oh wait, you're still a sub and giving them tons of money per month.
> 
> Seriously, as Mirco pointed out, if your receiver is doing that then something is wrong with it. Get it replaced, for free.


I'm not sure why you're getting angry and/or hostile. I never complained about the DirecTV service, and I'm not doing anything out of spite or to teach DirecTV a lesson. I prefer the HR10-250 to the HR21. That is all. But some people around here act like I just peed in their Cheerios when I mention my preference.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, let's not go down that route. This thread is still open because people have been having respectful, rational discussions. Please, let's keep it that way.


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## HarryD (Mar 24, 2002)

I actually thought of replacing my Philips DSR 7000 with the HR21-700. But after the latest two DTV updates... I must have been nuts!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

whitepelican said:


> I'm not sure why you're getting angry and/or hostile. I never complained about the DirecTV service, and I'm not doing anything out of spite or to teach DirecTV a lesson. I prefer the HR10-250 to the HR21. That is all. But some people around here act like I just peed in their Cheerios when I mention my preference.


Sorry, was just sarcasm. Not really directed at you personally. See, there are many people over the past couple years that have screamed and whined (and some rightfully so) about Tivo going away from DirecTV. But when push comes to shove they don't do anything about it which tells DirecTV nothing because the bill still gets paid. The only way to teach any company anything is vote with your wallet which some did.

Nothing wrong with preferring the Tivo. Frankly I prefer nothing so long as it records and I can watch my recordings. Both Tivo and HR2x do that. What the UI actually is I could care less. My wife on the other hand much prefers the HR2x UI and the one DirecTivo we have left really frustrates her. I'm sure I'll have to replace it sooner then later. The attitude in this thread and others that someone could like a UI other then Tivo is comical to say the least. But that's just me obviously and not you. I hope the new HD DirecTivo actually comes out and is the promised land for you and others.


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## dhines (Aug 16, 2006)

no regrets, and i say this as a person that swore by tivo (up until a couple of years ago). it is so nice to have one interface for all set top boxes. i for one will never be going back to a direct tivo unit, but if others do i see nothing wrong with it. i just know it was a pain in the neck to get my babysitters (mom, g-mom, nanny, etc) trained on how to use the one interface correctly, god knows i am not willing to go through that again with a tivo one.

IMO, tivo really dropped the ball when they didn't figure out a way to keep their old product from dead-ending with D*. i am sure both parties were playing hardball, but tivo is the one that lost. seeing that there was no other true tivo competition at the moment (meaning, there was no HD Tivo competitive at the moment), tivo had no bargining power and yet played their hand like they did. i realize many people are going to disagree with me on the above statements, but i consider them to be nothing more than my opinion.

seeing that i expect D* to heavily discount their HR2* HD DVR's, i ask this . . . why would many folks want to pay top dollar for something that they can lease for so much less? i realize there are tivo lovers that don't consider the products similar in any way, but seriously what percentage of the user base will feel that strongly (especially in a souring economy)?

whitepelican --

you interested in selling the hr2* that you 'replaced'?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

TechMoe said:


> After considering it for years, a few weeks ago I finally pulled the trigger on upgrading to DTV's HD service and got two HD DVR's. I have the HR 22 model. I have been using them for a few weeks now and my initial regrets have only grown and I really miss my Tivo boxes. I told myself that I wasn't going to upgrade to HD until DTV released its upcoming Tivo HD DVR box, but for whatever reason, i guess I justwanted Hd programming, so i figured many of the bugs that I had heard about on the HD DVR had been worked out. But now I really wish I had just stuck with my old DTV Tivo boxes and waited until the HD Tivo was released by DTV.


Greetings, and welcome to the forums...



TechMoe said:


> I mean don't get me wrong, the HD DVR is really not that bad, and its not about learning a new DVR system which I have already done, but its just the way Tivo seemed to be so much more intuitive. The Tivo interface is much better and I didn't seem to have any problems with it and some of my boxes were almost four years old when I upgraded. And I never had problems with the old Tivo boxes that I just gave up. With the DTV HD DVR, I have encountered audio stutter, some pixelation, and my both of my boxes have frozen up at least once or twice requiring reboots and a few days ago one of them just rebooted while I was in the middle of a show. That never happened with my Tivo boxes and i never had to reboot or had audio stutter or sync problems. I know its not anything wrong with my setup as I had a tech come out and check my installation and it is fine. Also I have noticed others have reported many of the same problems especially with audio issues, rebooting, and freezing up.


Problems are in every product out there... some people see them, some don't... I have had less problems on my 6 HR2x's and my folks 4 HR2x's than I did on my one HD Tivo and my folks one HD Tivo... Some people will have issues, some will not, I don't care what the product is... And to some extent, people tend to state that the HR2x is broken simply because it doesn't function like a tivo.. which is obviously not correct...

With that said, As to pixilization, etc... I don't think you should blame that on the HR2x's... I think its the combination of the HR2x's and the MPEG-4 feeds, which is somethign Tivo never had to deal with from sat...

Something else is up if your having to reboot that many times... I'd like to hear more specifics about your signal levels and what all you have hooked up and how... A few people have these issues, but not everyone.. Other than Directv sending out some bad guide data a couple times last month... I haven't had my units reset in over a year... I'm not saying you aren't simply having a software issue thats causing it, but as a process of illimintaion, we should look at all possibilities... And just because a tech says its fine, well, they can miss stuff too.. starting with, are your units networked?



TechMoe said:


> I also miss some of the features of the Tivo that I just assumed would be on the HD DVR. The one that I miss the most is dual live buffering which I used constnatly on my Tivo and I was pretty pissed when i foudn out that couldn't be doen with the HD DVR. I have seen some of the so-called workarounds but none of them are any good and nothing beats the ease of toggling between tuners with the press of a button. I really don't get it. I thought one of the biggest advantages of having two tuners is the ability to switch between the two, or pause one tuner while using the other to channel surf or pausing two shows and switching back and forth between the two. Why not have one button on the remote that allows you to easily switch between tuners and also the ability to pause each of the tuners. Its seems like the dual tuners are not really being maximized and one of the only benefits of having it as it is in the HD DVR is the ability to record one show while watching another, but that is just not using the technology to do what it really can-let you totally control your viewing experince. I have seen some debate on here as to whether dual live buffers should be added as a feature, and I don't understand the nay sayers, if you don't use it then don't use it, but alot of us do and it would be great to have it as an option.


I won't go into DLB... as others mentioned, there is an entire thread about it... While I never used it... I can see its appeal... and I think they should (and frankly, I think they are) implementing it at some point...



TechMoe said:


> I have also noticed that the HD DVR takes an extra second or two longer when switching channels. And when you go from watching something off the DVR to live TV and then want to go back to the program you were watching, if you hit the list button it takes you back to the top of the list and then you have to scroll down to the show you were just playing to resume watching. I know the "Back" button can take you back to the program you were watching in the DVR and play it right away, but it only works in certain instances and just insn't as intuitive. I also don't lie that programs are automatically grouped into a folder. I know some may prefer that but I really don't like that because I think it slows things down a bit. Tivo allowed you to turn this function on and off so why doesn't the HD DVR. In general I have also noticed less customization or options such as the look of the guide which Tivo offered a list format rather than the grid boxes that is the only option on the DVR.


The longer switching channels is possibly sparked by MPEG-4 as well.... I find my units switch quicker, like tivo did, when going from one MPEG-2 channel to another.... I'm not saying I don't want it sped up, I do... Its actually a lot faster today than it used to be, so I wouldn't be surprised if someday it speeds up even more... And I think it will be interesting to see if Tivo changes at different rates when switching channels as well... (its not just MPEG-4 to MPEG-2, its also changing sats and frequencies, and those little bbc's... I wonder how much that has to do with it...)



TechMoe said:


> Another complaint I will add is that the Tivo remote was far superior. And that is not just me having to get used to the DVR's new button layout. The Tivo remote was much smaller and you could perform most functions without having to slide your hand up and down the remote. I find myself doing this alot more with the DVR remote and its a bit annoying.


Remotes are so personal... I don't like either of them... Truth be told, if you have anything more than one tv and one sat box, I say get a good universal remote that you can program to behave the way you want... I use Universal Remotes MX850's and love them... although many people around here also swear by harmony remotes... But again, I don't care for those either... You should check out www.remotecentral.com if you are interested in finding out about the plethora of remotes out there...



TechMoe said:


> There are a few other minor gripes I have but i won't point them all out. But I think the biggest problems I have are with the DVR's basic ability to deliver programming without audio issues, its lack of stability, and its generally sluggish performance. I am so surprised that after several iterations of the DVR and after having so much time to work on the bugs and improve the system that this is what I have expeienced with the HR 22's. This box feels more like the Comcast box that I used to have and hated for many of the same reasons and it feels like a step back in many ways.


I really wish we could all figure out why some people have these issues, and others like myself just don't see them.



TechMoe said:


> Actually I do have to mention one last gripe. The DVR does not seem to be doing as good a job with recording a series, I think its called Series Link on the DVR and is called Season Pass on TV. It keeps recording repeats when I tell it to only record first runs. My old Tivo did an excellent job of distinguising between the different showings.


Um, that shouldn't be happening... unless... It will always record the first episode of something regardless if you set your SL to repeates or first run, because you are using that episode to intiate the SL... Once you are past the first SL, it should only record first run.. I have not had any issues with this... I haven't seen anyone esle have these issues either, excpet on news programs and certain channels, like comedy central, that seem to not understand the value of good guide data...



TechMoe said:


> Now that i have dumped on the DVR so much I should point out some feautes that I like about it that weren't available on the old Tivo box, at least the really old Tivo that I got from DTV several years ago adn that was not updated becausde I had no phone line. I like that with the DVR you don't have to stop watching what you are watching to perform almost all of the menu functions like checking the playlist, changing settings, or even checking out the On Demand options. I didn't like how with the Tivo for some of these things you had to leave what you were watching to go to a seperate screen. Although I think the new Tivo boxes allow you to keep watching TV while doing pretty much everything, that is kind of an assumption and maybe the newest Tivo's dont' let you do that but I'm not sure. Another thing I like on the DVR is that you can set a Series Link or Season Pass as I used to know them by hitting the record button twice rather than having to go to a different menu to set that up. The bookmarking feature is also kind of neat but I don't see myself using it much. The 30 second skip button is also a nice little feature, but I think the forward and rewind functions worked much smoother on the Tivo and I could live without a 30 sec skip button. And having the On Demand feature is a nice thing that I couldn't get on my old DTV Tivo box.


Try ffwd and rewd on SD and HD channels, you'll see they respond differently... Not sure if you have found out yet, but you can use 30 second slip, which is the default, or 30 sec skip... In case you haven't seen it yet, you should look at the threads in this forum...

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115

especially this one...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648

They will tell you a lot of the tips and tricks that you won't find in the ridiculously outdated manual... There is even a Tivo survival guide...



TechMoe said:


> On balnce though, I would give up all the features I like about the DVR that wern't on the old Tivo's I had, even the On Demand which seems to be the best feature that I couldn't get before on my old Tivo. Tivo is just a far superior DVR in my opinion. From the well designed interface to the nicer remote and yes the dual live buffer, I think there is no comparison.


And this is where I completely disagree.. The reality is, Tivo makes you do everything one way, and only one way, and treats you like your using a dvr for the first time, every time you use it. I can't stand that... These HR2X's allow you to do things Tivo wouldn't dare, like the one touch recording, something that has been on DVRs since the day they were invented.. Everyone says DLB was there from the beginning.. No it wasn't... but one touch record was..



TechMoe said:


> And I'm sure I will get some responses on here about being in the tank for Tivo or hyping it too much and dumping on the DVR, but I have to say that if you disagree with any of this than I doubt you have used a Tivo or used it for a long enuf time to really see how well it works-its just the best mouse trap out there and its no coincidence that Dish Network ripped off some of Tivo's patents for their own DVR's.


I have used a Tivo, ReplayTV, UltimateTV and the HR2X's, extensivly, and there is no question in my mind which was the absolute best.. ReplayTV.. I'd rank Tivo last... Again, I hate their GUI... But its all about personal prefrence, and I for one am glad that Directv will bring a Tivo to the lineup in a year or two (sorry, but Tivo never hits deadlines) because some people will always find the Tivo way better.. I'm just not one of them... To me, The HR series offeres far more intuitive features, and promises other great capabilites, that I don't see tivo ever implementing, simply because they have a philosophy on how their GUI should fundamentlay behave, which I dislike... When Tivo adds Boolean Search capabilites, One touch recordings, PIG, PIL, and some other things, then I would consider them, but till then, they are far too limiting for my tastes..



TechMoe said:


> And when i say i recorded a program I want to be able to say I Tivo'd it and have it be true, rather than really having DVR'd it on my DTV DVR. I know I got a bit greedy there.


:lol:  :hurah:

Hey, you can say it if you want.. Most people have no clue the difference anyway...



TechMoe said:


> I am kind of surprised that so many of you really like the HR2x's, but I must say its not a bad box and I would take it any day over not having a DVR. I think we all use our DVR's in different ways, and I really used the dual live buffer a lot, pretty much every time I watched TV so i got so used to having it. And I don't really care about the 90 minute buffer and would rather have dlb with 30 minute buffer if I had to choose. If I am gonna pause something for that long I just hit the record button andI don't like pausing stuff for long in case it burns an image into my plasma.


I much prefer the 90 min buffer, but that has nothing to do with me hitting pause... Its about me turning on my machine, and being in the middle of a movie, or coming out of a recording, and finding that whats on is somethign I might like... or fliping between live tv and a recording...



TechMoe said:


> I think the HR2x's have come a long way and the reason i waited till now is becaue of all the disaster stroeis I read and I figured it would be better to just wait while the bugs are fixed. But now I wish I would have waited a little longer and just upgraded when the Tivo HD boxes came out. But as someone pointed out, maybe I'll feel differently in a few months or whenever the Tivo boxes do come out. But I can't tell you how often I think of using the dual live buffer only to be annoyed that I can't with the HR22. One thing I was wondering about is is it not possible for DTV to add dlb to their DVR's because it would be stealing one of Tivo's patents? Is dlb exlusive to Tivo and they would likely sue DTV as they did Dish Network if they included this feature? I mean it could explain why they haven't added DLB to this point, and if true would mean that they never will. Anyone know about this?


There is no patent on DLB... and I wouldn't be surprised if we see it sometime next year on the HR2x's... and hopefully with two 90 min buffers to make evryone happy...



TechMoe said:


> Another funciton of dual live buffer is that it just allowed you to switch to the other tuner to see what was reocrding without having to go to the playlist. Sometimes I would just rather cancel what I was recording and keep wathcing what I am watching, which can be done with the HR22, but not as easily as was possible with Tivo using the dlb.


Hit prev....



TechMoe said:


> I mean I am glad to hear that Tivo will be an option at some point if I want to switch back, but right now I think I definitely will. I'm wondering though if the upcoming HD Tivo will have many of the features of the standalone Tivo, like being able to download movies from Amazon, being able to watch Youtube Vids and use other internet apps. I imagine DTV will not want to have some of these features, especially movie downloads from Amazon as it will take away from their own On Demand.
> To those who say they prefer all the HD channels, I can understand and that is a good point, although how many of those channels do you really watch. I'd bet most people watch the major broadcast nets in HD and maybe a handful of other cable channels like Bravo and TNT and the rest, but I have noticed that there are many channels on DTV and everywhere else I guess that have hardly any HD programming and that it is almost misleading to call them HD because hardly any of their programming is. So hoenstly I could have waited a little longer on the HD, especially since the SD channels look like crap and so much of the stuff people watch is still in SD.


That really depends on the person.. There is a LOT of programing I watch that isn't OTA that is in HD via Directv... especially sports and USA, TNT, HBO, etc...



TechMoe said:


> DTV has a while to make further upgrades and I really hope they add some of the features that have been discussed here. I also hope they do something about the speed of the box. One thing Tivo had over the HR2x's is that there wasn't as much lag and response time was so much better. This is something I would have thought wouldn't have been an issue with such a late iteration of the HD DVR, so I'm surprised it still is slow to respond at times and generally more sluggish than I woudl have imagined. This issue is really frustrating when it comes to searching through the On Demand titles because there are so many categories and it just feels like it takes forever sometimes to move thru the categories and quickly see what is available. The first time I used On Demand I tolerated it b/c I wanted to see what was avaialble, but now I find myself going to On Demand and then getting frustrated with the sluggishness so i just exit out of it. I seriously don't get why this is still an issue. As someonenoted earlier, these boxes are just computers, and we know how fast computers have gotten. So is it just a matter of hardware not having enuf juice or software not managing things well?


If you think these are slow, you should try my HD Directv Tiovs...  They have gotten faster, and I expect they will get even faster in time...



TechMoe said:


> I should also mention that one thing I like about the HR 22 is the On Demand and ability to download stuff, and I like how the download progress shows up in the playlist. It gives the box a sort of "live" or "connected" feeling which was missing from the old Tivo. But I am sure the upcoming Tivo will have the ability to connecto the net and do this as well. What I don't like and what someone else mentioned is how you cannot organize the playlist as you would like. For instance, i would like to have my On Demand stuff downloaded to a different area then my general playlist. They could create a tab at the top next to the existing tabs for VOD stuff and all that stuff will just go straight to that tab. It makes sense to me and seems more intuitive. I find that my playlist seems t be more cluttered and not as streamlined now. Also even though I like the ability to delete an entire folder, I have accidently deleted entire folders which deleted an episode that I still hadn't seen by accident so maybe an extra warning tha all episodes will be deleted would be nice but I think this is just something I will have to get used to and won't happen once I really get comfortable with the box.


A different tab for VOD is an interesting idea... I prefer the idea of being able to create our own tabs, so that we can have one master list like we do now, and then others we can name any way we want, and stroe whatever we want in them.. so I can have one tab for sports, one for TV shows, one for movies, etc... And since that is a replaytv feature, and they now own replaytv... its a possibility...



TechMoe said:


> Its gonna be interesting to see what will happen with the HR2x's once the Tivo comes out. My feeling though is that DTV will offer both boxes and the HR2x's will be the standard option and the Tivo will be the premium DVR that will likely require an extra fee. I think DTV will want to have its own units in place, becuae they have invested so much time into them and who knows what will happen with their relationship with Tivo down the road. Comcast has begun offering a Tivo enabled DVR in some markets instead of only offering their crappy generic DVR boxes. And the way they have done it is offer the generic DVR as the standard and the Tivo boxes as a premium DVR costing a few extra bucks.


Yep! I completely agree.. And I think it will a per dvr fee too, not one tivo fee per account...



TechMoe said:


> Oh yeah, forgot one thing. Does anyone know why there is that restriction on SP or Series Link? I mean these boxes have a ton of space. As many have pointed out, with a multiple person household, its very easy to hit hat limit and I find myself having to choose between shows that I want and whos that i really want. But this limit seems totally arbitrary and I don't get why it is there. Anyone have an idea as to why they would have done this and why they haven't removed it with one of their software updates.


There is a limit because the boxes become incredibly slow if they go past 50... for the moment... I think that may change in the future... There are ways around that issue, if you watch a lot of programs that are on the same channel... PM me with a list of shows you watch on any one channel, and I can give you some details...



TechMoe said:


> I also second whoever said that DTV should work on getting the basics right, which I know they have done too a great extent aand they have come a long way, but improving the speed of the box is more important to me than MRV or DirecTV2PC. I know some people are using those features and I think I will eventually, but lets maximize the experience for when you are in fron tof the TV and actually watching before adding more advanced features that seem to create more problems that then need to be fixed.


The one thing to remember about that... Every time they do add a new feature, it can affect the entire operation of the unit... So even if they get somethign perfect, the next feature they add may affect it... Which is why I think we have seen a slow and steady increase on abilites and reliablity... For the record, I have total trust in my units.. I haven't missed a recording in almost 2 years... And yes, I know that not everyone has my experience, but I would say a lot more do than don't...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Good point, dhines. Right now new subs are getting HD DVRs for free, and one reason for that is DIRECTV's total control over the hardware and software. Back in "the day" they gave away SD DirecTiVOs for free, but never HD hardware.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Ok....
> 
> Not to put words in Scott's post but I think he meant that the remote response is abnormal and should be looked at.
> 
> ...


This is a well documented problem...I press channel up...5 seconds later the channel up seems to take. It's horrible. Has been for a while and not getting better on the HR20-100.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yeah, but you didn't move to a different "pay-for" company you went to totally Free .. perhaps your glasses are a bit shaded towards the pay-for aspect of DIRECTV.


Heck no Doug, I *MISS* NHL Center Ice a *LOT*. But the HR20 got so maddening that I just couldn't justify it anymore. And E* doesn't have the HD feeds of the NHL like D* does, so it is what it is. :nono2:

My wife and I talk regularly about it, and until we can get HD, and pay for ONLY HD, and have our TIVO back, we won't have a subscription service, period.

We've actually considered Starchoice through a broker, but dismissed it due to hassles with billing and such.


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## 5 ACES (Dec 27, 2007)

I love messing with the different things that the receivers offer, but to be honest with you, I liked the Direct Tivo better for stability and as always, DLB!


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## fikuserectus (Aug 19, 2006)

I really like the Directv DVR's. My HR20-100 runs well. When Directv comes out with the new Tivo units in 2009 I'll probably stay with my Directv receivers unless they offer some really improved storage and features.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

dhines said:


> whitepelican --
> 
> you interested in selling the hr2* that you 'replaced'?


I'm not sure if you were serious with that question, but it's a leased unit. For now, it's going to sit on the shelf and I'm going to continue paying the lease fee on it. Maybe sometime down the road I will consider getting it replaced and/or using it as collateral on some type of upgrade.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

To answer the original question.....

Nope.


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## mjames007 (Feb 6, 2007)

DirectTV finds a way to force people to upgrade their HR10-xxxx units.

I have enjoyed my HR10 trouble free for many years and love the system but due to a recent announcement by DirectTV via channel 77, that they are moving the HD movie channels to channel that the HR10 does not support, they are forcing users to upgrade their hardware if they want to continue to receive subscribed HD channels. This seems very underhanded to me, getting people to sigh up for HD then move the channels so they can no longer view those channels without paying for new hardware.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Directv just wants to get rid of MPEG-2 channels so they give you the option to trade your MPEG-2 HR10-250 for an MPEG-4 DVR. I just got an HR23-700 and I will be activating it this week and Directv gave me $99 towards the purchase of this DVR as I didn't want to wait until my Directv installer had it in stock.


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## Crypter (Jun 21, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> *Hmmm, very easy to do on an HR2x. In fact it's faster then on a Tivo. Take HBO for example. Pull up the guide, go to HBO, left arrow to highlight the channel number and hit Info button. Within a couple seconds you'll have 2 weeks of guide data for HBO. One button record a dozen movies over the next 2 weeks in just a minute or so.
> 
> Left arrow, move down to Showtime, rinse and repeat.
> *
> ...


Thanks!!!!! I did not know you could do this! AWESOME!


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## Crypter (Jun 21, 2007)

mjames007 said:


> DirectTV finds a way to force people to upgrade their HR10-xxxx units.
> 
> I have enjoyed my HR10 trouble free for many years and love the system but due to a recent announcement by DirectTV via channel 77, that they are moving the HD movie channels to channel that the HR10 does not support, they are forcing users to upgrade their hardware if they want to continue to receive subscribed HD channels. This seems very underhanded to me, getting people to sigh up for HD then move the channels so they can no longer view those channels without paying for new hardware.


You do not understand the problem. The DirecTivo HD units could only decode MPEG-2 Video and all of the new HD Channels DTV has rolled out over the last couple of years are using MPEG-4. It is a more efficient way of encoding HD video and saves DTV some bandwidth giving them the ability to offer more HD channels and with better quality.

You need the new DTV HD-DVR's to be able to get the MPEG-4 programming. You can't blame DTV for wanting to shut down the old bandwidth hogging MPEG-2 channels and re-appropriate that bandwidth for newer channels (I think).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mjames007 said:


> DirectTV finds a way to force people to upgrade their HR10-xxxx units.
> 
> I have enjoyed my HR10 trouble free for many years and love the system but due to a recent announcement by DirectTV via channel 77, that they are moving the HD movie channels to channel that the HR10 does not support, they are forcing users to upgrade their hardware if they want to continue to receive subscribed HD channels. This seems very underhanded to me, getting people to sigh up for HD then move the channels so they can no longer view those channels without paying for new hardware.


This is not the first time that there have been a change in service with the HR10s and it won't be the last .. You should continue to have access to all of your OTA HD channels using the HR10 as there are no plans (to my knowledge) of changing the way digital TV gets to you over the air. Pretty soon, though, there will be no HD available via the satellite on your HR10.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Not really HD but I went from the R10 to the R15 and now to the R22 and would not go "backwards" (IMHO) to TiVo. I had 2 Tivos at one point, I know they will do all the things the plus DVRs do, but, and I don't know how to say this without getting a "blackeye" from TiVo lovers, but I prefer the "Grown up" interface of the DirecTv DVRS.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mjames007 said:


> DirectTV finds a way to force people to upgrade their HR10-xxxx units.
> 
> I have enjoyed my HR10 trouble free for many years and love the system but due to a recent announcement by DirectTV via channel 77, that they are moving the HD movie channels to channel that the HR10 does not support, they are forcing users to upgrade their hardware if they want to continue to receive subscribed HD channels. This seems very underhanded to me, getting people to sigh up for HD then move the channels so they can no longer view those channels without paying for new hardware.


Ummm, where you have been the past 4 years? LOL.

Seriously, this has been in the works for a very long time and you should have been getting all kinds of phone calls over the past 6 -12 months to offer you free upgrades.

DirecTV has gone to MPEG4 compression on their HD channels as has Dish Network. It's simply that the HR10 can't decode MPEG4 because it's sooooo old now and was released well before plans to go to MPEG4 went into effect. There have been well over 100 HD channels released in the past couple years that are MPEG4 that the HR10 can't see. It's just time to finally get rid of the MPEG2 HD channels to free up the bandwidth for more channels.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> It's just time to finally get rid of the MPEG2 HD channels to free up the bandwidth for more channels.


Yes, this is the bottom line .. The HR10 should continue to be a great Standard Definition receiver with the ability to receive HD OTA .. to the HR10 is not a useless device.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

mjames007 said:


> DirectTV finds a way to force people to upgrade their HR10-xxxx units.
> 
> I have enjoyed my HR10 trouble free for many years and love the system but due to a recent announcement by DirectTV via channel 77, that they are moving the HD movie channels to channel that the HR10 does not support, they are forcing users to upgrade their hardware if they want to continue to receive subscribed HD channels. This seems very underhanded to me, getting people to sigh up for HD then move the channels so they can no longer view those channels without paying for new hardware.


This has nothing to with forcing anybody to upgrade anything.

It's about more HD without sacrificing quality.

The fact is the HR10-250 can't do MPEG-4. You can still use the HR10 for SD and OTA.

No one should feel that this is a plot to force anybody to upgrade.

Mike


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## vegasnv (Jul 5, 2008)

clotter said:


> #1 thing I miss the most and always will is dual live buffers.
> 
> #1 thing I'm disappointed with the most is how slooooow the program guide is.


+1


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

jal said:


> After two years with an number of the Hr2x boxes, I still miss my TIVO. As soon as the new HD Directivo is out, I'm going to get rid of my Hr2xs.


+1...or maybe Dish 922...


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yes, this is the bottom line .. The HR10 should continue to be a great Standard Definition receiver with the ability to receive HD OTA .. to the HR10 is not a useless device.


You are correct sir!.:sure:


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## Jgriffin64 (Feb 6, 2009)

First I was a Phillips 7000 Directv Tivo User, $99.oo from BB floor demo.
WOW, goodbye VCR's, it was awsome, Loved it.
Got rid of my Old Projection TV and got the last Sony 60" DLP produced.
Used it for a year without HD other then my Xbox. Then I got the HD bug, bought and HD player for the Xbox360, upgraded to the PS3 for BlueRay, now it was time to also see that my cable was giving me HD as well, but who cared, if it couldn't be recorded. About 4 mos ago, I picked up a used 10-250 for $60.oo and bought an OTA antenna. WOW, spoiled I was. Then we get the e-mail to upgrade for free. Why not until the new Tivo's come out.
Got the HR22 today, my wife is really upset with the menu system and figuring out the season passes. The remote is a learning curve and so is the menus, but am I the only one that has noticed that the picture just doesnt' seem as vibrant, as sharp?

I'm not going to get into the Duel channel buffers that I just don't know how I will get by without, I'll have to learn...
I'm not going to get into the freq changes that are happening since I want to display the same broadcast freq being transmitted so I can see what he quality is.

Maybe I just got a cheap substandard HDMI cable and I'll swap that tomorrow. My wife is tempted to send the free unit back, just for me to connect the old 10-250 back up and use OTA recording, but I told her we would just have to live with it and see by recording some of the same shows we have already stored on the 10-250 for comparison.

I've heard the D system complaint for a few years, which kept me from getting a D HDR. I've even picked it up once at BBuy and took it to the counter and in line read where I didn't own the unit so I just couldn't complete the transaction at that time.

Maybe in a few days after I stop turning the light on to see the remote once I have it all figured out I'll determine that the video quality is acceptable, but I am still looking into this and will let everyone know.

If anyone else has noticed this, or if it's just me, please let me know.

Thanks,
James

(FYI) Basic cable is free with my internet, or I can discontinue and pay an extra $9.99, so I rarely use it, but it's there...


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## doctrsnoop (Nov 20, 2007)

Jgriffin64 said:


> \
> Got the HR22 today, my wife is really upset with the menu system and figuring out the season passes. The remote is a learning curve and so is the menus, but am I the only one that has noticed that the picture just doesnt' seem as vibrant, as sharp?
> 
> Maybe I just got a cheap substandard HDMI cable and I'll swap that tomorrow. My wife is tempted to send the free unit back, just for me to connect the old 10-250 back up and use OTA recording, but I told her we would just have to live with it and see by recording some of the same shows we have already stored on the 10-250 for comparison.


Well there is a learning curve, but my wife and I have done it too and now it's no problem.

As for the picture quality, there shouldn't be a problem. Have you gone into the menu to set the resolution? You'd have to have a truly defective HDMI cable for that to be the difference


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Jgriffin64 said:


> First I was a Phillips 7000 Directv Tivo User, $99.oo from BB floor demo.
> WOW, goodbye VCR's, it was awsome, Loved it.
> Got rid of my Old Projection TV and got the last Sony 60" DLP produced.
> Used it for a year without HD other then my Xbox. Then I got the HD bug, bought and HD player for the Xbox360, upgraded to the PS3 for BlueRay, now it was time to also see that my cable was giving me HD as well, but who cared, if it couldn't be recorded. About 4 mos ago, I picked up a used 10-250 for $60.oo and bought an OTA antenna. WOW, spoiled I was. Then we get the e-mail to upgrade for free. Why not until the new Tivo's come out.
> ...


If you don't like turning on the light to see the remote you need to order the DirecTV RC64RB remote from DirecTV's website.It's $25. +tax.That also includes shipping.The remote buttons are backlighted,and I highly recommend it.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380074&footernavtype=-1


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

HD + content + wife and kids not screaming because of the HR10 self-boot option > Tivo, so no not missing the HR10 at all.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

I had two Tivos for man years. Now I have two HR20's. I thought I'd really miss the Tivos. I don't. The HR's have been great and I have no reason to miss the Tivos.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

I'll take the newer system. I have owned/leased many boxes.


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## giantsox (Oct 25, 2007)

I've had an HR2x for about a year and a half. Am getting my 2nd one installed today and it will be replacing the Direct TV Tivo that currently resides in my bedroom. 

As has been repeated, DLB will be missed. I find the HR2x series to work incredibly well. Tivo is nice, but I suspect I will have forgot about it 2 weeks from now.


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## bscott (Jun 4, 2004)

Simple answer is no. Have two D* HR's now. Had an SD TIVO before upgrading to HD and haven't though twice about losing it.


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

Me : not really. Only Issues I have had are/were MPeg4 issues I suspect.
Partner: YES, I have to have the SD Tivo along with the HR20. Never had to show him how to use Tivo, the HR20 he still doesn't "get"

My biggest gripe with the HR2Xs is the POS remote, primarily the location of the most commonly used 30 Sec Skip, Pause and rewind buttons.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

I don't miss my Tivo one bit


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I don't regret dropping my Sony T60 although it was a fine device that worked near flawlessly for many years. As good as it was it wouldn't receive DirecTV's HD MPEG4 signal.

I do regret that DirecTV did such a poor job of development and quality assurance on the HR2x series.


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## utlimate_ed (Jan 7, 2009)

A couple of years ago, I replaced a dead DSR7000 with an SD DVR. It was our second unit upstairs, so it wasn't so critical. Quite frankly, the worst thing about it was the smaller capacity (I had upgraded the HD's in both my DSR7000's)

Here in December, we got the upgrade bug and went ahead and replaced our other Philips unit with an HR22. With a 500GB drive, it has as much HD capacity as my old unit had SD capacity.

To be certain, the interface is different and somewhat slower. I really don't like that the shows aren't sorted by title rather than by what recorded most recently. But, for the most part I have no regrets about switching.

I went into this with the plan that, if the HR22 was too troublesome, we'd move it upstairs when the new TIVO powered boxes come in and get one of those for the main TV. At this point, I'm not sure if a new TIVO powered box worth be worth all that much more.


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## bhuber (Sep 14, 2004)

I've had my HR2X for about 2 months now after using a Tivo for many years. I do have to say it was different, in time I have gotten used to it.

Will I switch back to the Tivo when it comes back to D*, not sure.

The one thing I still miss the most about the Tivo was the remote, it fits in my hand sooooo much nicer. Then again D*'s remote has its own set of advantages. 

So more or less I'm still undecided, and keep the old Tivo sitting right next to me on my desk...

--Beau


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

I use the same universal remote with my HR21 that I used with my TiVo, with the same basic functions assigned to the same buttons, so I have no issues with the remote. 

My big problem is that I still feel that the TiVo's WishList and search functions were superior what's available on the HR2x's, to the extent that I don't feel like I'm getting the full value out of my D* subscription because I'm not "finding" everything I might want to see. Thus, I'm pretty sure I'll switch to the new TiVo ASAP, even at an extra monthly cost.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

trainman said:


> My big problem is that I still feel that the TiVo's WishList and search functions were superior what's available on the HR2x's, to the extent that I don't feel like I'm getting the full value out of my D* subscription because I'm not "finding" everything I might want to see. Thus, I'm pretty sure I'll switch to the new TiVo ASAP, even at an extra monthly cost.


Stop by this thread for help with searches: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132971

In many ways the HR2x search is more powerful then the Tivo wishlist. But it all depends on how you used the wishlists.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> Stop by this thread for help with searches: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132971
> 
> In many ways the HR2x search is more powerful then the Tivo wishlist. But it all depends on how you used the wishlists.


I've stopped by that thread. What I'm missing from TiVo is...

1. a true saved searches list (not just "last 25")
2. ability to see upcoming matching programs for all searches in one list
3. results show only programs on "channels I get"

The functionality of the advanced search options doesn't help me with any of those.


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## kjoconnor (Dec 13, 2007)

I had 2 Tivos and dumped them awhile back and I have *never* once regretted the change! Thank you DTV - you put out a great product!


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## DC_SnDvl (Aug 17, 2006)

HR2x with no DLB = step backward

Something better = lie


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

DC_SnDvl said:


> HR2x with no DLB = step backward
> 
> Something better = lie


Opinion, actually some people have no need for DLB.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

That's your opinion DC_SnDvl, but I happen to prefer the HR2xs to TiVo. DLB=BFD. When I had Sunday Ticket with Super Fan all I did was set the Red Zone in HD to record. Why chase after individual games when I can see them all? With DLB you're tethered to the DVR and that to me defeats the whole purpose.

It's the fact that I can just hit the record button in the Guide, twice for Series Link. TiVo makes the same process a big production. The ability _not_ to have to exit recorded or live TV to access the Menus and Guides. Why TiVo chooses not to take that approach I have no idea, but I find it constraining.


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## ToddinVA (Mar 5, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> Opinion, actually some people have no need for DLB.


Some people may not care, but a majority do. I currently have an HR20 and an HR10. For various reasons, I'm contemplating going ahead and replacing the HR10 with an HR22/23, but the lack of DLB is really making this a difficult decision. FIOS is also being installed in my neighborhood so I could just decide to wait and switch to that. I don't dislike the HR20 that much, but a few issues really annoy me aside from DLB such as the instant replay feature is too slow and doesn't go back as far, it's much harder to FF to where you want to go, not resuming a recording after a power failure or reboot, and the lack of suggestions. Hopefully TiVo will return to D*, but I'll believe it when I see it....


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I switched from TiVo way back when the R15 first came out and quite honestly never looked back. I thought the TiVo, although neat had a pretty "kiddy" interface.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

ToddinVA said:


> Some people may not care, but a majority do. I currently have an HR20 and an HR10. For various reasons, I'm contemplating going ahead and replacing the HR10 with an HR22/23, but the lack of DLB is really making this a difficult decision. FIOS is also being installed in my neighborhood so I could just decide to wait and switch to that. I don't dislike the HR20 that much, but a few issues really annoy me aside from DLB such as the instant replay feature is too slow and doesn't go back as far, it's much harder to FF to where you want to go, not resuming a recording after a power failure or reboot, and the lack of suggestions. Hopefully TiVo will return to D*, but I'll believe it when I see it....


How exactly did you determine a "majority" is there a validated poll someplace? Sorry I run a business in an inductry that requires validation of statements made and I tend to discount anything that is posted as a certainity without supporting documentation that can be verified and validated.


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## HarryD (Mar 24, 2002)

I never had a HD Tivo but we're still using my SD Phiips DSR7000 Directivo.. just love it.. I do have an HR21-700 and it works ok (after the last software release). I can't wait for the new Directivo to come out... :hurah:


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

The HR series DVR's are not in the same league as TIVO, DISH, or the Comcast DVR. Google the comments and reviews for the boxes mentioned. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the HR DVR's are crap. In fact, my HR10-250 performs better in its current disconnected and retired state than any of the HR21's I currently lease. I do not think anyone in this forum would except an automobile, PC, or appliance that performs as poorly as the HR series of DVR's. I bet the HR's hold the record for software updates.

The HR series was an attempt by DirecTV to keep more of the profits. I'm sure that the licensing of TIVO was expensive. I look forward to the new TIVO / DirecTV DVR.


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## ToddinVA (Mar 5, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> How exactly did you determine a "majority" is there a validated poll someplace? Sorry I run a business in an inductry that requires validation of statements made and I tend to discount anything that is posted as a certainity without supporting documentation that can be verified and validated.


 There are of course more than one poll on here where the results are significant. Is it scientific though, of course not. I don't understand why some of you just can't see why other people want and need this feature. If you don't want it and it comes along, then don't use it! Also, there are 2 other aspects of DLB that are vital: it keeps buffering both tuners after a recording ends which comes in very handy sometimes and when you turn on the TV, there's double the chance that a station you want to see is already buffering. That comes in handy as well sometimes.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

ToddinVA said:


> There are of course more than one poll on here where the results are significant. Is it scientific though, of course not. I don't understand why some of you just can't see why other people want and need this feature. If you don't want it and it comes along, then don't use it! Also, there are 2 other aspects of DLB that are vital: it keeps buffering both tuners after a recording ends which comes in very handy sometimes and when you turn on the TV, there's double the chance that a station you want to see is already buffering. That comes in handy as well sometimes.


By the reverse point, why is it that the people who think DLB is a must have feature can't understand why there are people who could care less if it exists or not?

Don't worry, when the Directivo unit releases sometime in late 2009 or 2010 you just might have your DLB back at a price.

The last point - that only works if both tuners are on the channels you want buffered, unless you make a effort to remember to set both tuners to channels that you are sure you want to watch other then that is is a roll of the dice that this will happen.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

I "upgraded" to a couple of HR21s last June. Since then, they've settled down a bit; I don't seem to have anywhere near as many random lock-ups and reboots as they originally did. One of them had the hard drive completely fail after a month, and one of them I added an external drive just for the sake of increasing space. So I can't help but think that most of the serious lock-up/reboot issues I had to start with were hard drive related, since they've both improved since then. Though it'd be odd to have bad drives in both of them. I've also gotten used to them a little more. But I still can't decommission the HR21-250, even though I feel like I'm wasting $5/month keeping it going. But that is still the unit I trust more, and I duplicate recordings on it for the important ones. It just seems like a huge oversight to have the HR2x accept a series link without warning you that it won't record it due to conflicts. And now I'm having problems with artifacting on recordings from the AM21, and extremely slow response from the remote. While the HR-10 just keeps chugging along, even though there's not much left it can record in HD.  It's truly amazing to me that this long after the HR2x series was released, they _still_ can't seem to get it to a polished state.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

allenn said:


> The HR series DVR's are not in the same league as TIVO, DISH, or the Comcast DVR. Google the comments and reviews for the boxes mentioned. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the HR DVR's are crap. In fact, my HR10-250 performs better in its current disconnected and retired state than any of the HR21's I currently lease. I do not think anyone in this forum would except an automobile, PC, or appliance that performs as poorly as the HR series of DVR's. I bet the HR's hold the record for software updates.
> 
> The HR series was an attempt by DirecTV to keep more of the profits. I'm sure that the licensing of TIVO was expensive. I look forward to the new TIVO / DirecTV DVR.


LOL. Well, mine record my programs and I can play them back. Do I need anything else?


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## Albie (Jan 26, 2007)

allenn said:


> The HR series was an attempt by DirecTV to keep more of the profits. I'm sure that the licensing of TIVO was expensive. I look forward to the new TIVO / DirecTV DVR.


If the figures I keep seeing repeated are anywhere even close, the *costs* involved would have made it far cheaper to keep Tivo than to design and maintain their own software/hardware base. Now as to the total profits, that is another story and and if they can easily make more profit off of their own software/boxes it would be irresponsible of them as a publicly traded corporation to not do it.

The bottom line here is that content drives this industry. DVR boxes are merely a value added item and as always the value added is completely subjective to the individual consumer. From the looks of it consumers of television as a whole do not place a great value on Tivo's products as evidenced by the declining base of Tivo subscribers and the increasing base of satellite/fiber/cable subscribers.


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## bobfa (Feb 5, 2009)

I just switched from Comcast HD-DVR to DTV with HR22-100.

What are your referring to when write about "DLB"? (Dolby Labs ???)

Has anyone else stated that the quality of HD from DTV isn't as good as Comcast HD? For me with the exact same cables, setup, TV, (rip and replace), Comcast HD is brighter, clearer and has a better overall picture. I'm a little disappointed by the HR22-100.


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## Albie (Jan 26, 2007)

bobfa said:


> I just switched from Comcast HD-DVR to DTV with HR22-100.
> 
> *What are your referring to when write about "DLB"? (Dolby Labs ???)*
> 
> Has anyone else stated that the quality of HD from DTV isn't as good as Comcast HD? For me with the exact same cables, setup, TV, (rip and replace), Comcast HD is brighter, clearer and has a better overall picture. I'm a little disappointed by the HR22-100.


Dual Live Buffer

As far as the picture quality it is very subjective and there are many variables involved.


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