# How long til OTA locals start mapping?



## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I am in Omaha, and subscribe to Dish's local package. Today I finally got around to putting up an OTA antenna. Hooked it up, went into Local Channels and Scan Locals. The 622 found channels, I hit Done, and they are now in the guide, each one listed as Digital Service.

When does the guide data start transferring over?


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Usually takes a few hours.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I should mention that Dish's locals have never "mapped" to the channel number the local is. 3, 6 and 7 have always been 9140, 9141 and 9142. Same on both 622s. Will this affect the OTA mapping, or does it go by the channels' call letters?


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

If you want the HD channels downmapped go to Menu, 6, 9, Sat Locals Button, and select HD Priority.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

HD Priority is already selected.

Here it is 12 hours and one reboot later, and no changes. Any help here?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

On the 622, you'll only get EPG data for your OTA when you sub to Dish locals off the satellite. 

Edit: :zzz: :bonk1:


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Really?


Presence said:


> I am in Omaha, and *subscribe to Dish's local package*.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Call Dish and speak to the tech department. 

1-800-333-DISH


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Yes


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

Yes and it's strictly a business decision. Gotta get that extra $6 a month out of ya for guide data.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Sarcasm does not work on online forums. Let this be a lesson to us all.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Presence, 

There are some areas where people have not been successfully in getting mapping. They usually happen when someone is in a zipcode where there are multple DMAs. Do you know if you are in such an area? 

Can you describe more about your OTA situation. What are your exact channels that are not being mapped down. Are they all of them? 

I also would suggest calling Dish support but lets get the info here to so the engineeering folks can see it if the happen to be wondering around.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Yes, all of them are not mapping at all.

If you live in Lincoln, about 50 miles away, that is another DMA. Why should that matter? I subscribe to Omaha, I am getting the Omaha OTA channels (and a few from Lincoln.)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Not exactly sure Presence... Just know of a few people that have had the situation and have the same experience. The last one was a guy that was in a dual DMA area and he subbed to Penn locals. He could not get guide data though others that were just in the Penn are was not having any issues. 

That is why I asked and why it might be the reason.


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## PAULSTORM (Nov 1, 2005)

I live in the Lincoln, NE DMA and subscribe to the locals for guide data. I'm able to get guide data for the Omaha market digital OTA stations as well as the Lincoln. I've also picked up a Sioux Falls market digital OTA station and got their guide data.

I wish they would pull the guide data by the station's call letters also and not just their channel number. Here in Central Nebraska, our CBS affiliate is KGIN/CH 11. The CBS affil on the guide data is KOLN/Ch 10. Since the CBS info is Ch 10, I don't get guide data for my digital OTA Ch 11. 

(In case you're confused by that--yes there are 2 CBS affiliates in the same market. They're owned by the same company and have the same exact programming. Ch 10 is for the eastern part of the market and Ch 11 is for the western half.)


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

I have never gotten the info on my Pbs or my CBS since putting up my OTA antenna 3 months ago. The other locals have mapped. I am in the NYC area. Does that strike anyone as odd?


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## David K (Nov 27, 2004)

I live in Monroe Ohio (which is actually closer to Dayton Ohio) unfortunately, because of my zip code, I get my Dish locals from Cinci. My OTA signal is much stronger and more reliable pulling from Dayton (100%). 

When I first got the 622 it mapped down the guide data from the dish cinci locals to my OTA Dayton locals just fine!!! Then 365 hit and since, it will not map down the guide data. I've asked questions on here and called and E-mailed Dish to no avail. 

I had to turn my antenna toward Cinci. Now I have the guide data, but a weak undependable signal. I tried an amplifier, that didn't work. All I can say is thanks for doing it to me again Dish, taking away one of the main reason that I upgraded to that receiver!! I researched this site and called dish before upgrading to verify that this WAS a feature I would receive. 

It wouldn't be so bad if I had never received the guide data, but I had it just fine for 2 weeks before 365!!!


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

motts said:


> I have never gotten the info on my Pbs or my CBS since putting up my OTA antenna 3 months ago. The other locals have mapped. I am in the NYC area. Does that strike anyone as odd?


Does your OTA PBS HD also run an SD OTA channel. I so you are in the boat as I am. We won't get it it will just be listed as digital service, You will need to go on your computer and go to TitanTv and set up an account. Then you should be able to get the info from them. So when you see something on the station that you want DVR it.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

motts said:


> I have never gotten the info on my Pbs or my CBS since putting up my OTA antenna 3 months ago. The other locals have mapped. I am in the NYC area. Does that strike anyone as odd?


I read that they finally fixed WCBS-DT so that the OTA channel info appeared in the guide. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=674508&highlight=WCBS#post674508

If you still don't have it in your guide, you might want to rescan digitals or delete WCBS and add it back (you'd need to know the transmit channel it uses).

I waited a year for my Sacto PBS subchannels to have correct EPG info. Neither subchannel matches the analog / SD sat local but DISH did finally get EPG info for both PBS subchannels into the guide. I believe it requires having the PBS station get the info for the digital channel(s) to Tribune.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

After posting that, I noticed in http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66025 that WNET may now or soon have EPG info for all three PBS subchannels in NYC.

14066 WNET3 ADDED TO Tp 1s13 on EchoStar 7 at 119w

14068 WNET1 ADDED TO Tp 1s13 on EchoStar 7 at 119w

14069 WNET2 ADDED TO Tp 1s13 on EchoStar 7 at 119w

Your 3 month wait may be coming to an end. 14000 channels aren't viewable - just used for OTA digital EPG info.


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## vttom (Sep 29, 2006)

Just want to clarify...

I have the HD Bronze package plus locals. All of the locals over Dish are SD.

Also have an OTA antenna hooked up. Getting a couple of local HD channels. The EPG data for these channels only shows "Digital Programming".

This is the expected behavior?

I won't see any EPG data on the OTA HD locals until Dish adds them (in HD) to the satellite lineup?

If so, that really sucks. More or less defeats the purpose of why I got the 622 to begin with (integration of OTA HD and DBS HD).

I'm in a tiny market (Vermont). It took them years to add the SD locals. It'll be another couple of years before they add the HD locals, if ever.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

vttom said:


> Just want to clarify...
> 
> I have the HD Bronze package plus locals. All of the locals over Dish are SD.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's expected. I also only have SD locals via satellite in Baltimore, but I do get the EPG data for my OTA locals. So, it's definitely possible without having HD satellite locals.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

No... It is having locals in your area that triggers the mapping occurs as far as I know.. There are other reasons why you would not have locals but I don't think it is not having HD locals is one of them. Couple things you can try... 

1) Make sure your locals mapping is set to SD Priority. (Find the setting on the page you scan for your OTAs on). I don't think this is the cause but you should be at SD priority anyway since you don't have Dish HD locals.

2) Might be that Dish does not have the mapping for your area since it is a small market yet. 

3) Are you in a zipcode that has multiple DMAs? THis also has caused the problem you described. 

My guess is more along the lines of #2. Have you had OTA before with another receiver and gotten the guide mapping? If you did, then that could be pointing more towards 622 issue.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I can't tell what OTA channels you may be getting, but if you get Burlington/Plattsburgh stations, it may only be CBS and PBS stations that have digital broadcasts. That's what antennaweb.org would indicate, but it lists the CBS station as 7.3 for WCAX-DT but WCAX is 3?? Whatever WCAX-DT is, it isn't listed at Zap2It.com for a 05401 zipcode. I only see program info for PBS 28.x (WVER) and Plattsburg's PBS 57.1 (WCFE) at Zap2It. Burlington's own PBS (WETK) should be 33.1 according to Antennaweb.org, but Zap2It lists it as 41.2 (WETKDT2). It is unlikely DISH will be able to provide guide info for a station if it doesn't appear at Zap2It.com since they have a common source. DISH could force the guide info for an OTA digital channel to duplicate a satellite local, but it doesn't seem to do that - particularly for PBS stations.


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

Well once I posted that I don't have CBS and PBS mapped, well what happened 2 days later? I get the info for both. Finally I have the info for CBS and PBS. CBS I could have lived without the info, since the sd version listed the programming. But PBSHD has different programming than its SD counterpart so the only way to know what was on was to check the online schedule.


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## vttom (Sep 29, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> 1) Make sure your locals mapping is set to SD Priority. (Find the setting on the page you scan for your OTAs on). I don't think this is the cause but you should be at SD priority anyway since you don't have Dish HD locals.


Hmm... I think I have HD priority selected. I'll try the SD priority setting.



Ron Barry said:


> Have you had OTA before with another receiver and gotten the guide mapping? If you did, then that could be pointing more towards 622 issue.


I have all the EPG data for all of the SD locals on the satellite, so it's not an issue of Dish not having the data. It's a mapping problem.



CABill said:


> I can't tell what OTA channels you may be getting, but if you get Burlington/Plattsburgh stations, it may only be CBS and PBS stations that have digital broadcasts.


I'm getting WETK (ch32 ATSC, ch33 NTSC) and WCFE (ch38 ATSC, ch57 NTSC). Both are PBS affliates. Both show up in the EPG as SD locals with full progamming info. WCAX (CBS affiliate, ch53 ATSC, ch3 NTSC) doesn't power up for another 2 weeks. The ABC and NBC affiliates say they'll be powering up shortly thereafter.



CABill said:


> Burlington's own PBS (WETK) should be 33.1 according to Antennaweb.org, but Zap2It lists it as 41.2 (WETKDT2). It is unlikely DISH will be able to provide guide info for a station if it doesn't appear at Zap2It.com since they have a common source.


Interesting coincidence. When WETK went live only last week, they had a PSIP problem where they were incorrectly mapping their 32.2 subchannel to 41.2 instead of to 33.2 (the .1, .3, .4, and .5 sub-channels all mapped correctly). This was enough to confuse my 622 and keep it from giving me any audio (although I did get a picture). It took a handful of emails to the engineer at that station from myself and others having similar problems to get them to straighten it out. Seeing 41.2 on Zip2It is strangely coincidental. Perhaps another email to the engineer is in order....


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

For anyone whose locals aren't mapping correctly, or at all, contact [email protected] and let them know. They may not be aware of the problem. I did this, and was able to get one of the three KC stations that were not mapping correctly fixed. They tell me they're still working on the other two (but it's been quite a while). Worth a try. Good luck!

Brad


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## voyagerbob (Jul 14, 2002)

motts said:


> Well once I posted that I don't have CBS and PBS mapped, well what happened 2 days later? I get the info for both. Finally I have the info for CBS and PBS. CBS I could have lived without the info, since the sd version listed the programming. But PBSHD has different programming than its SD counterpart so the only way to know what was on was to check the online schedule.


Does this mean you are getting PBSHD guide data?

Voyagerbob


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

voyagerbob said:


> Does this mean you are getting PBSHD guide data?
> 
> Voyagerbob


Yup. I wasn't getting it for months and then two days ago it was just there. A pleasant surprise to say the least.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

voyagerbob said:


> Does this mean you are getting PBSHD guide data?
> 
> Voyagerbob


Actually someone else was also directly in touch with the dish engineer (ilkevinli on satelliteguys) and got them first to fix WCBS-DT and then to get all 3 WNET digitals added to the EPG (different guide info then for wnet's analog info).

Other people complaing recently may have gotten their attention, however several of the rest of us had tried months ago and not gotten anywhere.


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## rpotts (Feb 7, 2003)

I just got a 622 PVR, and get my locals from Dish Network. I also have an antenna for High Def Locals.
Most of my High Def channels have the Guide set up correctly, except one station - KNWA - my local NBC affiliate.
Dish broadcasts them on 51. I receive the over the air signal on 51.1.

The TV guide says 'Digital Service' all day long for 51.1 - it makes it difficult to use the PVR.

For some reason the two are not paired like ABC, and CBS.

I called Dish, but they couldn't figure it out. 

Is there a way to get the channels mapped properly?


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## GC2005 (Sep 11, 2006)

rpotts said:


> I just got a 622 PVR, and get my locals from Dish Network. I also have an antenna for High Def Locals.
> Most of my High Def channels have the Guide set up correctly, except one station - KNWA - my local NBC affiliate.
> Dish broadcasts them on 51. I receive the over the air signal on 51.1.
> 
> ...


I have the same problem. On my OTA, all I get is 'Digital Service' on 51.1 - KNWA (NBC); 51.2 - KFTA (FOX) and 29.1 - KHBS (ABC). However on 13.1 PBS and 5.1 - KFSM (CBS), I get the guide info.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

GC2005 said:


> I have the same problem. On my OTA, all I get is 'Digital Service' on 51.1 - KNWA (NBC); 51.2 - KFTA (FOX) and 29.1 - KHBS (ABC). However on 13.1 PBS and 5.1 - KFSM (CBS), I get the guide info.


They just managed to fix NY (wcbs-hd and WPBS-HD). Make sure you talk to someone at DISH and make it clear you have a guide problem for an OTA that they carry.


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## vttom (Sep 29, 2006)

Bradtothebone said:


> For anyone whose locals aren't mapping correctly, or at all, contact [email protected] and let them know.


Hmmm.. I tried emailing [email protected], twice, from 2 different email accounts. Both were returned with the following response...

The original message was received at Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:35:38 -0600

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<[email protected]>

----- Transcript of session follows ----- ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to tnpp.pageoneinc.com
>>> RCPT To:<[email protected]>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <[email protected]>... we do not relay

What gives?


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

It looks like [email protected] is a distribution list and there is an email address in the list that is no longer valid. I would assume there are still other valid addresses in the list that did receive the email. Just a guess however.


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## rpotts (Feb 7, 2003)

As a result of this post or my email to [email protected]
it is now working perfect. Cool! I even got a response to the email confirming it should be fixed!

Man, Am I happy.

Woo Hoo!


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Vip622 OTA- I have a antenna installed on the roof with 50' of RG6 no splitters. When I conncet to the OTA tuner to my Samsung DLP I have no problem with locking onto signals. When I instll to ViP622 OTA tuner my signal drops and I can not get a lock on 6 of the 9 local station - Furthest station 6.2 miles away. Any suggestions... Oh Yah E* replaced box still same problem.

Fred


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

fmcomputer said:


> Vip622 OTA- I have a antenna installed on the roof with 50' of RG6 no splitters. When I conncet to the OTA tuner to my Samsung DLP I have no problem with locking onto signals. When I instll to ViP622 OTA tuner my signal drops and I can not get a lock on 6 of the 9 local station - Furthest station 6.2 miles away. Any suggestions... Oh Yah E* replaced box still same problem.
> 
> Fred


Try adding a splitter to go to both the TV and the 622 at the same time. If you can lock on more stations that way, you are probably overloading the 622's tuner with too much signal now.

Oh......:welcome_s and............:backtotop

Brad


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Presence said:


> I should mention that Dish's locals have never "mapped" to the channel number the local is. 3, 6 and 7 have always been 9140, 9141 and 9142. Same on both 622s. Will this affect the OTA mapping, or does it go by the channels' call letters?


Can you manually map them?

Also-do they show the progams in the program guide for OTA digital broadcasts? I've always wondered that.


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

invaliduser88 said:


> Yes and it's strictly a business decision. Gotta get that extra $6 a month out of ya for guide data.


If you pay the $5.99, and get out of market locals that aren't in your DMA's package (for example, live in Cleveland DMA but pick up Youngstown stations too) will they show up on the guide data or not?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Akron,

They did, but a couple of software changes ago (L3.63) DISH changed that. For example, I subscribe to the Cincinnati locals and I am able to pick up the Dayton digital locals. All of them now show "digital service".


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Bill R said:


> Akron,
> 
> They did, but a couple of software changes ago (L3.63) DISH changed that. For example, I subscribe to the Cincinnati locals and I am able to pick up the Dayton digital locals. All of them now show "digital service".


Do you think that was the intent or simply an unintended consequence of a software upgrade? Any word from DISH as to whether that will change?


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Bill R said:


> Akron,
> 
> They did, but a couple of software changes ago (L3.63) DISH changed that. For example, I subscribe to the Cincinnati locals and I am able to pick up the Dayton digital locals. All of them now show "digital service".


If you subscribe to the locals, will you get program guide data watching OTA in HD even if that station is only offered in SD by DISH on their LiL service?


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Bradtothebone said:


> Try adding a splitter to go to both the TV and the 622 at the same time. If you can lock on more stations that way, you are probably overloading the 622's tuner with too much signal now.
> 
> Oh......:welcome_s and............:backtotop
> 
> Brad


Added splitter. Going to the vip622 and to tv turner, same problem. Had a tech here for 3 hrs. Could not find problem. Is anyone using Vip622 with OTA antenna.
Guide listing DIGITAL SERVICE same problem with WKBN-DT. WYTV and WFJM EPG are ok. Called WKBN and they said they will correct the EPG guide.

Fred


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

akron05 said:


> If you subscribe to the locals, will you get program guide data watching OTA in HD even if that station is only offered in SD by DISH on their LiL service?


Yes, but in some markets, only for some stations. For example, in my market, Cincinnati, I get listings for most of the main channels and some of the subchannels but none of the PBS HD feeds have listings (they all show "digital service"). Some of the PBS substations have listings, some don't.



> Do you think that was the intent or simply an unintended consequence of a software upgrade? Any word from DISH as to whether that will change?


It is hard to say. I did write DISH but I got an answer back that had nothing to do with what I asked. I might try again if the don't show up in a month or so.


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

fmcomputer said:


> Added splitter. Going to the vip622 and to tv turner, same problem. Had a tech here for 3 hrs. Could not find problem. Is anyone using Vip622 with OTA antenna.
> Guide listing DIGITAL SERVICE same problem with WKBN-DT. WYTV and WFJM EPG are ok. Called WKBN and they said they will correct the EPG guide.
> 
> Fred


I am having the same problem with the CBS and FOX EPG in Youngstown. I thought it was a problem with dish, not the local station. How does the local station attach the programming guide to the signal that is sent to Dish to be sent to our 622?

The only channels I have a problem getting a lock on my 622 is the WFMJ-DT 1&2, and it is only sometimes. But it always is OK connected directly to my TV. It is very strange.... And I do have a splitter connected to both at the same time.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

JSIsabella said:


> How does the local station attach the programming guide to the signal that is sent to Dish to be sent to our 622?


They don't. In order for DISH to show the listings for the local OTA stations DISH puts a "channel" up for that station that provides the EPG listings. This is a channel in the 14000 series of channels that you can't see in your EPG. There has to be one for each OTA digital station (including substations). If you look at the Uplink Activity Report you can see the OTA digital stations that DISH is adding the epg for. DISH buys its listings for all its channels from a service provider. The local stations send their listings to that service provider.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

JSIsabella said:


> The only channels I have a problem getting a lock on my 622 is the WFMJ-DT 1&2, and it is only sometimes. But it always is OK connected directly to my TV. It is very strange.... And I do have a splitter connected to both at the same time.


If you use a RF signal amp instead of a splitter that might fix your problem. A two port splitter cuts the signal in half (-3 db). I use a four port amp that keeps the signal at the same level that it is from the antenna. With digital stations it is important to use a high quality, low noise amp and make sure that it handles VHF and UHF. If you get a two port model make sure that it doesn't over amplify the signal. One with adjustable gain would be a good choice.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

akron05 said:


> Can you manually map them?


How?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

You can only map a station if it has good signal strength (in the green). You can get the 622 to map the station by doing a scan (menu, system setup, local channels, scan locals) or by going into the same menu and pick "add locals" and put the DIGITAL channel transmit number (not the mapped to channel) that you want to add. If the tuner is able to get a good signal on that digital station and you press DONE, the 622 will save that information and the channel will be mapped. You should be aware that there is a bug in the current software (L365) that may cause the 622 to re-boot within about 5 minutes after you do this. However, your newly added stations will still be saved. They are not always in the EPG right away but they will show up.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

JSIsabella said:


> I am having the same problem with the CBS and FOX EPG in Youngstown. I thought it was a problem with dish, not the local station. How does the local station attach the programming guide to the signal that is sent to Dish to be sent to our 622?
> 
> The only channels I have a problem getting a lock on my 622 is the WFMJ-DT 1&2, and it is only sometimes. But it always is OK connected directly to my TV. It is very strange.... And I do have a splitter connected to both at the same time.


Well I'am about to install my third antenna trying to get a lock on WFMJ using the Vip622 OTA tuner. My OTA tuner on my DLP Set works great. To bad I have to spend this much money to justify the quality of the Vip622 OTA tuner.

Fred


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Time to give it a rest, Fred. We're now well aware of your 622/antenna problems, after reading your post in just about every thread today.


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