# Does anyone REALLY know why no DLB?



## KirkusTX (May 23, 2007)

After one of my two HR10-250's lost a drive, I decided to finallly make the switch, and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised so far with the HR20. Like many others, I miss the DLB, and I'm really curious why we don't have them.

I'm not looking for DirecTV bashing or Murdoch conspiracy theories, but given that DLB has been hugely popular with former TIVO users, and that other DVR's manufacturers have implemented it (so it must not be a patent issue), and finally, with the ability to record two shows at once, it would seem to be a relatively simple and popular feature to implement. Does anyone have any inside info as to why it's not available? And BTW, my non-HD non-TIVO DVR (Hughes) also has this feature.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Flat out... 

DirecTV chose not to have that feature with the R15, and that carried into the HR20... 

It is not a patent issue...

It simply is a feature that DirecTV has opted not to include yet.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Or the immortal timeless explanation courtesy of Steve Martin...

*I forgot!*


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## LOBO2999 (Apr 9, 2004)

I hate that there is no dlb , I was trying to pause and switch to another channel the other day .


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## johnck78 (Feb 19, 2007)

So far for me, and I've had this box since January, it is the only real shortcoming from my Tivo!! I used this feature alot, especially on game day (football)


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## KirkusTX (May 23, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Flat out...
> 
> DirecTV chose not to have that feature with the R15, and that carried into the HR20...
> 
> ...


Thanks, Earl. It seems like such an odd decision from a marketing perspective, I wonder if the exclusion provided some other benefit that would otherwise be given up, ie the 90 minute buffer (versus 30). I wouldn't think so, but I'm not a programmer. Obviously, its something that occurred in the R15 development timeframe. I wonder if these guys were testing prior TIVO users, or sports fans, for that matter.

I know this dead horse is starting to stink pretty bad, but it seems somewhat akin to if they had "decided" not to record the 5.1 stream. It's obviously a feature many of us like, were use to and now miss. I'd love to know what took place around that DirecTV table when the topic of DLB came up and they said, "Yeah, let's don't do that."


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## Bobby42 (Apr 18, 2007)

KirkusTX said:


> Thanks, Earl. It seems like such an odd decision from a marketing perspective, I wonder if the exclusion provided some other benefit that would otherwise be given up, ie the 90 minute buffer (versus 30). I wouldn't think so, but I'm not a programmer. Obviously, its something that occurred in the R15 development timeframe. I wonder if these guys were testing prior TIVO users, or sports fans, for that matter.
> 
> I know this dead horse is starting to stink pretty bad, but it seems somewhat akin to if they had "decided" not to record the 5.1 stream. It's obviously a feature many of us like, were use to and now miss. I'd love to know what took place around that DirecTV table when the topic of DLB came up and they said, "Yeah, let's don't do that."


I'm guessing the conversation went something like this: 
You have x weeks to complete the product and get it out the door. We want features A, B, C, and DLB.

The programmers came back and said, to get A,B,C, and DLB we need x+y weeks.

Ok, what do you have to drop to get it done in x weeks?

DLB.

Ok, drop DLB and finish in x weeks.

Software features from major companies are always a matter of schedule time. Marketing gets a date fixed in their head when you have to finish and work backwards from there to see what you can include.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

I don't really miss DLB.

Don't care if we ever get it on the HR20.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

It is a missing feature I am reminded of mutiple times daily. I have not gotten to a point where I don't miss it and don't believe that I will. The question is whether this irritation will callus over or will it fester and worsen.

And each time I am reminded that I no longer have DLB, I am mystified as to the supporting logic behind the conscioius decision to not include this feature.

Many months ago Earl implied that some of the underlying reasoning had been shared with him and that he at least understood and somewhat agreed with it.

But the fact that he could not share those reasons with us leads me to suspect that those reasons could inflame negative sentiment among the subscribers. I end up imagining things like content providers leveraged D* into either doing this to force increased exposure to commercials or paying more for the content they provide. Pure speculation, but left to my own imagination I tend to conjure up the more negative possibilites.

Not knowing gnaws at me daily. It brings out the conspiracy theorist in me.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

KirkusTX said:


> After one of my two HR10-250's lost a drive, I decided to finallly make the switch, and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised so far with the HR20. Like many others, I miss the DLB, and I'm really curious why we don't have them.
> 
> I'm not looking for DirecTV bashing or Murdoch conspiracy theories, but given that DLB has been hugely popular with former TIVO users, and that other DVR's manufacturers have implemented it (so it must not be a patent issue), and finally, with the ability to record two shows at once, it would seem to be a relatively simple and popular feature to implement. Does anyone have any inside info as to why it's not available? And BTW, my non-HD non-TIVO DVR (Hughes) also has this feature.


I posted my own theory here.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=900955&postcount=587

Just and opnion...............

Mike


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> Many months ago Earl implied that some of the underlying reasoning had been shared with him and that he at least understood and somewhat agreed with it.
> 
> But the fact that he could not share those reasons with us leads me to suspect that those reasons could inflame negative sentiment among the subscribers. I end up imagining things like content providers leveraged D* into either doing this to force increased exposure to commercials or paying more for the content they provide. Pure speculation, but left to my own imagination I tend to conjure up the more negative possibilites.
> 
> Not knowing gnaws at me daily. It brings out the conspiracy theorist in me.


You think to hard...

It has nothing to do with content providers... as they would love for you to watch two things at once, vs record it and watch later. (a lot easier to skip the commercials when it is completely recorded, vs watching in a buffer).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobby42 said:


> I'm guessing the conversation went something like this:
> You have x weeks to complete the product and get it out the door. We want features A, B, C, and DLB.
> 
> The programmers came back and said, to get A,B,C, and DLB we need x+y weeks.


Actually the conversation went more like this:

What should the box be:
-) A DVR first, then a LIVE TV receiver 2nd
-) A Live TV receiver first, then a DVR

How do most people use a DVR?

I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.

Now not having dual buffers for almost two years (Starting with the R15).. I simply don't miss it one bit... I watch everything pre-recorded... minus sporting events. And even then, I am rarely actively watching two at a time... even on Sunday's with Footbal.

Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You think to hard...


 I know. I pretty much said so. 

I also get tweeked when I know I don't know something someone else knows. :lol:


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> It is a missing feature I am reminded of mutiple times daily. I have not gotten to a point where I don't miss it and don't believe that I will. The question is whether this irritation will callus over or will it fester and worsen.


Totally agree. My irritation with this has done nothing but fester which is REALLY annoying. Its come to the point that I've even started looking into canceling my D* service and moving to Comcast. This thought process has started to evolve with me researching Comcast installation, etc. in my area because for the next 30 days I would be able to cancel my D* without paying a cancellation fee since they just updated their customer agreements. I'm not sure if I'm willing to jump YET, but the festering will only get worse and worse and at some point I WILL be switching providers if the HR20 doesn't include DLB.


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## closer9 (Mar 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now not having dual buffers for almost two years (Starting with the R15).. I simply don't miss it one bit... I watch everything pre-recorded... minus sporting events. And even then, I am rarely actively watching two at a time... even on Sunday's with Footbal.
> 
> Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.


Agreed.

I'm pretty new around here, but I used the older TiVo DVR for years and used the DLB frequently. About 2 months ago I upgraded to HD and got the HR20 and to be honest, I really don't miss DLB very much. Sure there are times I wish it was there, but I'd rather see other things fixed / implemented before DLB (read: dimming the bright ass blue and orange leds


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Keep a couple of things in mind:

1) The DirecTV+ DVR software used the Sky+ DVR software as a starting point (and let me tell you the DirecTV+ software is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Sky+).

2) As a result of point 1, the general concept was that the second buffer was thought of as being like the tuner in a VCR - it only exists to allow the user to record one programming while watching another.

3) Managing FIFO buffers of A/V data is tricky - managing 2 is even trickier. I suspect that the potential for de-stabilizing the software when retrofitting DLB into software that was designed around SLB was judged to be an unwarranted risk, particularly considering points 1 and 2.

4) As noted, MANY TiVo users either don't know that they have DLB or else they don't use it.

The decision to not have DLB is like TiVo's decision to make the buffer only 30 minutes long. There is no showstopper technical reason (indeed, I've hacked my DirecTiVos to have dual 120 minute buffers) - it is just what they decided.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Let me put it this way - I'd pay more for DLB.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

You and me both. 

I would have gladly upped to the $7500 a year platinum package.

And all they would have had to do was give me a straight answer, through their proxy here of course.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Only used it during the NFL Season and found the big limitation was if one of my fingers slipped across the Ch+/- button before I could hit Cancel, *poof*...the buffer was gone. Regular TV programs I just record to make sure that doesn't occur.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

bidger said:


> Only used it during the NFL Season and found the big limitation was if one of my fingers slipped across the Ch+/- button before I could hit Cancel, *poof*...the buffer was gone. Regular TV programs I just record to make sure that doesn't occur.


So you're saying because you don't know how to work a remote we shouldn't have it or you could care less?

Very insightful, thank you.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Please stop posting this rubbish about how "a majority" or "many" directv tivo users/ and tivo users don't even know they had dual live buffers.

Unless these people you know were utter retards, then this is a farce. Please stop it. You are simply stating as such to water down the importance of DLB. It's an insult that you think every one is that stupid.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> So you're saying because you don't know how to work a remote we shouldn't have it or you could care less?
> 
> Very insightful, thank you.


Very helpful, thank you.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Let me put it this way - I'd pay more for DLB.


I think I would too. That is how much I use it....

I still don't know why it didn't have right out the door. If they did any marking/pr of any kind, it would of been on there.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> Please stop posting this rubbish about how "a majority" or "many" directv tivo users/ and tivo users don't even know they had dual live buffers.
> 
> Unless these people you know were utter retards, then this is a farce. Please stop it. You are simply stating as such to water down the importance of DLB. It's an insult that you think every one is that stupid.


Excuse me?

So my mother is an "utter retard"...my brother in law...and the neighboor that I just help move two of their DirecTivos....

Maybe the farce is DLB is not the end-all-be all feature that most DVR users rely on to record their programs and watch them at a later time...


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

All I'm going to say is ... I'm happy that DirecTV chose to make the HR20 a DVR over a LIVE TUNER set-top box.

I would love to have DLB *now*, but I can patiently wait as long as it takes for DLB to be done right ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> How do most people use a DVR?
> 
> I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.


This is a really interesting point. I agree, most people using TiVo probably don't know about DLB. There's no real reason they should. It was never advertised to them and would have had to either stumble across it or been told by someone else.

Several times I've read posts implying if _John Q_. doesn't know about DLB then why would D* care about fixing the problem. I think this is probably a little short sighted. As with all new stuff, knowledge/documentation of features lag behind the introduction of any gadget.

I know from my own experience that the basic level of understanding/knowledge of the average user grows with number of people using the technology. A few years ago you say firewire or usb to someone and they're looking at you like you're speaking in Latin. Now most people want as many of these connections for their stuff(camera, printers, etc) as they can get.

IMHO, DLB will be one of those kind of things. HDTV's are selling like hot cakes. People will want to know what their new _superwampladyne_ giant screens can show 'em. They'll want the HD carrier their brother-in-law has or the upscaling/hidef DVD player the saw at the _Jones'_ next door. As the consumer is exposed to technology they get smarter and the marketing(as well as manuals/documentation) gets more focused. Soon, what was once just techie stuff will be commonly understood/wanted features.

I once went into the R&D office for a major golf club manufacturer (part of my senior ME project). There were literally hundreds of clubs, shafts, and heads laying around. Club heads cross-sectioned in every way imaginable. At least 75% of the equipment belonged to the competition.

We know that D* watches/reads these threads. You can bet the competition does also. The other guy's problems(lack of features?) are your marketing points.

Also, *and this is important*, the Motorola DCT-6412, the Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8000HD, and the ViP622 all have dual tuners(or more). Their manuals also describe how to use them(PIP & switching between tuners). One or more are currently offered by every major cable/dbs provider(except D*). The use of the PIP and switching between tuners is featured on the cable/dbs providers websites and in their downloadable brochures (go read 'em). It's only a matter of time before D* has to address the *Bleeping Live Bleeping Buffers*.

Of course D* can't get SLB to work correctly. Even with the new software I'm still having issues. 

Mike


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

glennb said:


> I don't really miss DLB.
> 
> Don't care if we ever get it on the HR20.


I agree. Move on people.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> I agree. Move on people.


Then why are you even reading this thread or posting in it?

Why don't you move on...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> Then why are you even reading this thread or posting in it?
> 
> Why don't you move on...


I think because it's an open forum...


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> I agree. Move on people.


I continue to be puzzled by the reasoning some people have that if they don't care neither should anyone else.


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## sshams95 (Sep 2, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> I agree. Move on people.


No, we will not move on!! We will continue to put pressure until a firm decision has been made on DLB. Up until now, we know that it has not been ruled out one way or the other. It could happen in 6 months, in one year...or it could never happen. But the pressure will continue until a final decision is made.

MicroBeta, I'm ready for your letter when it's ready.


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## jgrade (Oct 1, 2006)

sshams95 said:


> No, we will not move on!! We will continue to put pressure until a firm decision has been made on DLB. Up until now, we know that it has not been ruled out one way or the other. It could happen in 6 months, in one year...or it could never happen. But the pressure will continue until a final decision is made.
> 
> MicroBeta, I'm ready for your letter when it's ready.


The fact that you have a HR20 with NO DLB means that a firm decision was made. Oh I see, you want a firm, firm decision. How long does this go on for? The decision was made. Does this mean that D won't offer it in the future as a new feature? Definitely not, but when do you call it a firm decision?

Anyway, I am with Earl. I very rarely watch live TV so DLB is not miss. Even on the 2 TiVo's I still own, I don't use DLB. However, I understand the problem with the sports fans; DBL would be handy.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Excuse me?
> 
> So my mother is an "utter retard"...my brother in law...and the neighboor that I just help move two of their DirecTivos....
> 
> Maybe the farce is DLB is not the end-all-be all feature that most DVR users rely on to record their programs and watch them at a later time...


What do you think is the percentage of people that knows and the percentage that don't know about DLB. With *most* DVRs having DLB.

I bet it's: 15% Don't know about DLB.
85% Does know about DLB.

[Edit] Although most people say "How do I change to the other tuner." Maybe not knowing the term DLB.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

It isn't a sports fan thing exclusively at all.

My wife and I both use the dual buffers extensively during prime time viewing...or at least we did. Still do if we are watching one of the R10s


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mr anderson said:


> Please stop posting this rubbish about how "a majority" or "many" directv tivo users/ and tivo users don't even know they had dual live buffers.
> 
> Unless these people you know were utter retards, then this is a farce. Please stop it. You are simply stating as such to water down the importance of DLB. It's an insult that you think every one is that stupid.


I'd guess just about everyone I know must be a retard then. When the HR20 rolled out with no dual buffers and the threads about it started I conducted a poll amoung 10 friends I knew had a DirecTivo. Now keep in mind most have it for Sunday Ticket.

8 had no idea what I was talking about. I told them how to do it and so then they understood what it was but they had never tried it and didn't know it was a feature. 
1 knew about it but rarely used it, mainly during baseball.
The 10th knew all about it and used it a lot. He had DLB withdrawal with the HR20 but has gotten over it because "more HD trumps DLB any day" and I quote.

Can't say how many of the 8 have since started using it in one form or another. So 80% didn't know what it was.

I'd say DLB is similar to the Tivo 30 second skip. People on these forums think everyone knows about it when in fact the vast majority do not. Most people have a Tivo/DVR because they want to record American Idol and Lost. It doesn't go much beyond that. It's just a "digital VCR" and nothing more to Joe Sixpack.

*WE* are the crazy ones that are power users of the DVR.

None of this has anything to do with the question of if the HR20 should or shouldn't have DLBs. I personally used DLBs only during Sunday Ticket but when I got HD 5 years ago (just a regular old HD receiver, an HD DVR wasn't around yet) I got used to not having DLB once Sunday Ticket had HD games. Now with the HR20 it's no different.

Would I use DLB if it were there? Probably.
Do I "miss" it? No, I'm used to not having it.
Is it a critical feature to my DVR experience. No.

I echo my friend....dozens of new HD channels and interactive sports trump DLB any day of the week. Having DLB would just be icing on the cake.

But again, that's just me.

If DLB can be added without stability issues to the box then I'm all for it. But I'm not expecting it to ever be available on the HR20 or R15 and nobody else should be hanging on thinking it will be added either. Don't fool yourselves. If DLB is your #1 must have feature then starting looking elsewhere is my advice. Then you'll need to evaluate DLB against whatever negatives there are with the DVR and service provider you go with.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Que said:


> What do you think is the percentage of people that knows and the percentage that don't know about DLB. With *most* DVRs having DLB.
> 
> I bet it's: 15% Don't know about DLB.
> 85% Does know about DLB.
> ...


Actually...

Yes... I think it is far few people know about DUAL BUFFERING by any name, then 85%.... I doubt it is even the majority of user (less then 50%).

Just by sheer number of times I have been on someones TiVo at their house, and I do it... and they go... "how did you do that".. and these are people that have had the units for years.

Unless you log into the forums, or similar type board.
Get a 3rd party book...
Or actually read the manual for the small segment on it (in the HR10-250 manual, it is only two sentenances out of the 180 page manual)...

There is nothing on the remote that indicates how to do it, and the on screen banner (referring to TiVo here)... doesn't make it very clear how to do it.

So just like people rip the HR20 for not being intuitive or documenting everything.... At least for the DLB feature on the TiVo, I would have to say it has the same flaw.... unless someone shows you or tells you about it... you probably won't just "come across it" on your own.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.


You're absolutely right. I got into a discussion with someone here at work. He has DirecTV with the HD Tivo DVR. We were talking about the HR20, and I passed stuff that I'd read on this forum over to him. He has no experience with either the R15 or HR20. I was going over some of the pros and cons of the HR20, compared to tivo (my experience based only on the R15, but I figured it was close enough). One part of the conversation went something like this:

Me - "And the HR20 doesn't have dual live buffers..."
Him - "What are dual live buffers?"
Me - "You know - it buffers live tv on both tuners at the same time so you can switch between channels without losing the buffer for the show you're watching..."
Him - "I've never done that... I didn't know that you could..."


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I'd guess just about everyone I know must be a retard then.....


I didn't even bother reading the rest. Your first sentence did fine.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually...
> 
> Yes... I think it is far few people know about DUAL BUFFERING by any name, then 85%.... I doubt it is even the majority of user (less then 50%).
> 
> ...


That is insane. The only way I could see your point was if that person only had a tivo for a week.

Now if someone has a tivo, for, let's say a month and that person "hasn't come across" (like it's some hidden feature??) DLB, then yes, that person is below average intelligence to me.

I understand you have an agenda on this forum, and you get paid to generate "the best possible opinion towards DirecTV". I also know that you will retort by saying that is untrue and you have no such agenda, which we both know is a lie.

But that doesn't give you the right to water something down and throw made up numbers at it. Don't act like the made up experiences of the unintelligent surmount to the rest of us using it.

Do you ever consider that on some things, you should just say, "you guys are right. It doesn't hurt me any that you get what you want. I'm on your side". Think about that the next time you give talk with them.


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

+1


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> That is insane. The only way I could see your point was if that person only had a tivo for a week.
> 
> Now if someone has a tivo, for, let's say a month and that person "hasn't come across" (like it's some hidden feature??) DLB, then yes, that person is below average intelligence to me.
> 
> ...


Why is it insane?
Just because it differs from your opinion on the topic ?

And you are wrong again, if you think I am getting paid to do this.
And again if you think I have an agenda... god bless yah, as I can throw the same statement back towards you... does it make it right?

And yes... I have many of times stated... "you guys are right".

If you want to think that everyone out there with a TiVo... more then a week, knows and utilizes DLBs... then so be it......

Doesn't change the fact that there are long term users of TiVo based products that don't know ever feature of the box.

And it has nothing to do with their intelegence level.


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

Is there any rule in this forum about unnecessarily offensive and insulting posts? If so, I have some nominations to make from this thread. Or, alternatively, does the forum have a block function?

FWIW, I'm probably the only one in my immediate family of four who knew about and used DLB on our DirecTivo. And I'd put my money on my family members in an intelligence contest.

Earl had it right. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Many simply have no desire to use the DVR in that fashion, so they never learn about DLB. I know about it because, as you can see from my avatar, I believe in RTFM.

All that being said--I'd sure like to have DLB. But if I made a list of life's irritations, DLB wouldn't make the cut.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jahgreen said:


> Is there any rule in this forum about unnecessarily offensive and insulting posts? If so, I have some nominations to make from this thread. Or, alternatively, does the forum have a block function?
> 
> FWIW, I'm probably the only one in my immediate family of four who knew about and used DLB on our DirecTivo. And I'd put my money on my family members in an intelligence contest.
> 
> ...


Yes... there are rules about offensive and insulting posts.
You can always hit the ! on a post to report an individual post.

As for a "block"...
There is the ignore list: http://www.dbstalk.com/profile.php?do=editlist


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

My wife didn't know about DLB on the Tivo, until I pointed it out. Now she wonders why we replaced it with an inferior unit that doesn't even have DLB.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I echo my friend....dozens of new HD channels and interactive sports trump DLB any day of the week. Having DLB would just be icing on the cake.


You act as if there is a choice to be made between having alot of HD channels and DLB, which is not the case whatsoever. I really don't understand why people come into this thread and say 'Get over it', 'It's not coming', etc. Basically you are saying you are happy this box and that D* doesn't need to add anything. Why do people NOT want D* to add features requested by the user community? Or is that you just don't want them to 'waste' time on a feature YOU don't think you would use?

In that case, I hope D* drops their new VoD rollout because I can tell you right now it won't be as good as their cable competitors VoD. Does that mean D* shouldn't implement it? No, because some people will use it even though I most likely won't.

Its really quite irritating that anyone on this forum should feel that they have to 'defend' their love of a feature and lobbying D* to implement it. What will those people bashing us now be saying when D* decides that one of their pet features isn't worthy? Just because you don't use a certain feature doesn't mean that it shouldn't be implemented.

Also, I know that NOBODY on this board can cite any sort of scientific/accurate numerical number on the amount of users for DLB. Until there is a scientific study conducted, all numbers reference is nothing more than conjecture. Just because my 5 great aunts don't use the DLB feature on the TiVo doesn't mean that 20 people in my neighborhood that I DON'T know and whose house I have NEVER been in to watch TV with don't know how to use it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes... there are rules about offensive and insulting posts.
> You can always hit the ! on a post to report an individual post.
> 
> As for a "block"...
> There is the ignore list: http://www.dbstalk.com/profile.php?do=editlist


I see it's pick on Earl time... and we all know his agenda too....to help us out without being paid.....:gott:


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

lman said:


> My wife didn't know about DLB on the Tivo, until I pointed it out. Now she wonders why we replaced it with an inferior unit that doesn't even have DLB.


Same here! +1

It's not just about the feature, its also about the marketing effort. I'm sure you're wife bashes the box just as mine does, and its not just to us that they bash it. At parties, work, etc. when the subject of TV comes up. Its no longer, 'TiVo is great' its, 'We got this box and D* sucks now because of it'. Not, 'the box sucks and you have other choices', 'D* sucks'. It tough to gain potential customers with those kinds of comments.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> Why do people NOT want D* to add features requested by the user community? Or is that you just don't want them to 'waste' time on a feature YOU don't think you would use?


I don't think the number of people against adding DLB is very high at all..
But if it comes at a sacrafice (be it an existing functionality, or delay's in other features), that that is where people would say I can live with out it.

But the counter is true: Why do people think "we" are lying, or just falsifying stuff.. because we don't think DLB is the end-all-be-all ?



tiger2005 said:


> In that case, I hope D* drops their new VoD rollout because I can tell you right now it won't be as good as their cable competitors VoD. Does that mean D* shouldn't implement it? No, because some people will use it even though I most likely won't.


So you are already writting off DirecTV's VoD before it is even out there?
Even if it isn't as good as "cables"... it is not 1 feature/offering that makes or breaks the provider....



tiger2005 said:


> Also, I know that NOBODY on this board can cite any sort of scientific/accurate numerical number on the amount of users for DLB. Until there is a scientific study conducted, all numbers reference is nothing more than conjecture. Just because my 5 great aunts don't use the DLB feature on the TiVo doesn't mean that 20 people in my neighborhood that I DON'T know and whose house I have NEVER been in to watch TV with don't know how to use it.


100% accurate... there are no numbers for the entire population of DVR users.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> Same here! +1
> 
> It's not just about the feature, its also about the marketing effort. I'm sure you're wife bashes the box just as mine does, and its not just to us that they bash it. At parties, work, etc. when the subject of TV comes up. Its no longer, 'TiVo is great' its, 'We got this box and D* sucks now because of it'. Not, 'the box sucks and you have other choices', 'D* sucks'. It tough to gain potential customers with those kinds of comments.


But then you have the person on the other side of the cube, that has the opposite statement...

As I have said everytime... you need to try it for yourself. 
If YOU don't like it... you don't like it....

If I don't like a certain place for dinner... does that automatically mean the next person isn't going to like it? or have a better experience then me?

My wife didn't like the R15 when we first got it, nor the HR20...
But now that she has used it.... she complains about the DTivo that is still in basement...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But now that she has used it.... she complains about the DTivo that is still in basement...


That's easy...get it out of the basement....:lol:


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

All the hostility is a little depressing, because I believe we CAN have it all. All of us.

Not all at once mind you, but all of it eventually.

Number me among those that have no interest in VOD. It is completely ho-hum to me. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't want the feature to be developed. I can only image the hostile backlash if I came out against having it developed for those who DO want it.

Conversely, I don't see a reason to want to stop anyone who wants to have DLB from having it. The folks taking that position confound and astound me.

If it's a question of "me first", then let me be the first to defer. I would be pickled tink merely to get a commitment from D* to eventually implementing DLB, even if I knew it would be many months before I saw it and other things were going to be done before they got to it. 

I don't need to be first, but I sure as heck don't want to be dismissed altogether either.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But then you have the person on the other side of the cube, that has the opposite statement...
> 
> As I have said everytime... you need to try it for yourself.
> If YOU don't like it... you don't like it....
> ...


Earl, I'm sorry, but people ARE NOT going to sign-up for a service when references from their peers aren't very good. Its human nature and people won't want to go through the hassle. Its one thing to go to a restaurant for dinner if your friends didn't like it, but its something completely different to take a chance on another TV service provider by canceling your existing service, and then have a full install completed of a service that your friends are bashing just to try it out.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> Earl, I'm sorry, but people ARE NOT going to sign-up for a service when references from their peers aren't very good.


Wasn't it you that had a comment about your 5 aunts and the 20 neighbors you don't know? Even if it wasn't, you have no idea how many people are bad-mouthing the HR20, and how many people are singing its praises. I'd be willing to bet that DirecTV attracts a LOT of new customers to the HR20 this fall as they roll out new promotions and ratchet up the marketing for their HD expansion. Do you think those new customers, who had already spent thousands on their HD TVs to watch the 20 or so HD channels currently available, will be happier to have up to 100 new HD channels or will they be pissed that they don't have DLB?


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

What is DLB?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

purtman said:


> What is DLB?


Currently, DirecTV only buffers one tuner. DLB = Dual Live Buffer. It refers to the ability to have two tuners being buffered constantly, much like the TiVo software does, so that you could pause live TV in one buffer and switch to the other buffer. Each buffer is independent, so you could effectively watch two live programs at the same time by continusously pausing and toggling between buffers, all without ever pressing RECORD on either tuner.

This may prompt the question, well, why wouldn't you just record both tuners? You could, but if your playlist was near full and you wanted to switch between a two-hour movie and a 3.5 hour baseball game, the HR20 would have to delete 5.5 hours of programs to record the live TV. With DLB, you could watch the movie AND the game, AND not have any programs in your playlist deleted, allowing you time to catch up on your recordings at a later date ...


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> All the hostility is a little depressing, because I believe we CAN have it all. All of us.
> 
> Not all at once mind you, but all of it eventually.
> 
> ...


This is my thought exactly. If I knew it was coming, I'd be happy. I bought our SAT-T60 DirecTivo when it only had 1 tuner active, with just the promise of the second tuner being activated. (Boy, I sure have become spoiled over the years. I can't imagine going back to one tuner.)

I also think that D* can get some mileage out of marketing DLB with their sports subscriptions. "Watch 2 games at once" has a nice ring to it.


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## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

"Nothing is perfect". DirectTV is not an exception. I d to want DLB but I like D* more than DISH, that's why I have 2 HR20 boxes now.

Talking about HR20 software, it's joke. With this many users, they should have done right long ago. Too many problems till lately and still don't get something done right. i.e, CID and 30s slip bugs with the latest CE. They need to test it before even release it to CE user. If they did test it, again what a joke!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

cuibap said:


> Too many problems till lately and still don't get something done right. i.e, CID and 30s slip bugs with the latest CE. They need to test it before even release it to CE user. If they did test it, again what a joke!


So why don't you unplug your phone line from the HR20 and pretend it's a cable DVR????


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

drew2k said:


> So why don't you unplug your phone line from the HR20 and pretend it's a cable DVR????


That's the amazing thing about the HR20(caller ID). Too bad it doesn't work.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

DLB is a standard feature on almost every other service provider's multi-tuner DVR's - including my third rate cable provider. 

I do not understand the rationale and thinking of the same handful of posters, who, whenever this issue comes up, are willing to accept mediocrity and argue to give D* a pass on the issue simply because it is something you do not use.

I want D*'s DVR's to be the best they can be, I'm confused as to why others do not.


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## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

drew2k said:


> So why don't you unplug your phone line from the HR20 and pretend it's a cable DVR????


This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! If D* didn't advertise it as a feature, I wouldn't have said it. Once it's a feature, they need to make it work. That's the reason I didn't complaint about DLB.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Wasn't it you that had a comment about your 5 aunts and the 20 neighbors you don't know? Even if it wasn't, you have no idea how many people are bad-mouthing the HR20, and how many people are singing its praises. I'd be willing to bet that DirecTV attracts a LOT of new customers to the HR20 this fall as they roll out new promotions and ratchet up the marketing for their HD expansion. Do you think those new customers, who had already spent thousands on their HD TVs to watch the 20 or so HD channels currently available, will be happier to have up to 100 new HD channels or will they be pissed that they don't have DLB?


Perhaps you should go back and read the posts on this thread again. My 5 aunts and 20 neighbors comment was in response to people saying not many people know about DLB, therefore nobody has any sort of facts to back up those comments. My comment related to the peer references was related to a comment made by lman and OUR personal experiences and Earl comparing eating at a restaurant with signing up for a TV providers service.

I never cited any numbers on the amount of people activating an HR20 or anything else. I didn't do that because I KNOW I don't have any numbers to back up those kinds of statements.

I know its tough for you, but try and keep up with the thread.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

drew2k said:


> So why don't you unplug your phone line from the HR20 and pretend it's a cable DVR????


My friend's cable DVRs have CID (Bright House Cable, formerly Time/Warner of Tampa) and it works flawlessly. Always has.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cuibap said:


> "Nothing is perfect". DirectTV is not an exception. I d to want DLB but I like D* more than DISH, that's why I have 2 HR20 boxes now.
> 
> Talking about HR20 software, it's joke. With this many users, they should have done right long ago. Too many problems till lately and still don't get something done right. i.e, CID and 30s slip bugs with the latest CE. They need to test it before even release it to CE user. If they did test it, again what a joke!


As explained time and time and time and time and time and time and time again...

The CE process.... *IS PART OF THE FRACKING TEST PROCESS*
If you don't like that aspect of the CE process... then don't participate... period...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> Perhaps you should go back and read the posts on this thread again. My 5 aunts and 20 neighbors comment was in response to people saying not many people know about DLB, therefore nobody has any sort of facts to back up those comments. My comment related to the peer references was related to a comment made by lman and OUR personal experiences and Earl comparing eating at a restaurant with signing up for a TV providers service.


My comparison to "eating at a restaurant" was in respect to how people make decisions based on the reviews and comments of others.

When was the last time you decided to watch a movie that a critic trashed?
Just because someone says something bad, doesn't necessarily mean everyone will avoid it...


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> It And each time I am reminded that I no longer have DLB, I am mystified as to the supporting logic behind the conscioius decision to not include this feature.


I have three theories:

1) From a technical standpoint, they haven't figured out how to make it work and provide the stability they want. If this is the case, then I am OK with it. I would rather my recordings record than have DLB.

2) There is a complete disconnect between the designers of the D* DVR's and the customers that use them.

3) For some reason D* has made a corporate decision to not include them. It may be that RM knew that football fans used the DLB's to avoid commericals on his FOX network and he wanted us watching the commercials that pay the bills. After all, he pays billions of $ for the rights and he needs to make sure he recovers his $ with commercial time.

I lean toward 60-70% #3 and the balance at #2. Given the R15 and HR20 codebase is different, it seems as it was more of "decision" to eliminate DLB as opposed to a technical roadblock. But now that Liberty owns, or soon will own D*, its anybody's guess as to what will happen with DLB.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> When was the last time you decided to watch a movie that a critic trashed?
> Just because someone says something bad, doesn't necessarily mean everyone will avoid it...


I usually take the opposite approach. If it gets nominated for an Oscar, I avoid it.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> I usually take the opposite approach. If it gets nominated for an Oscar, I avoid it.


Speaking of Oscar nominated or Oscar winning movies, boy did my wife hate "The Departed". We watched it on PPV about two weeks ago.

The graphic violence was a bit much for her and it really kept her from sleeping very well afterward.


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

Hopefully with all the other DVR's coming out(or that are out), that do have DLB's, it will force Directv to get this functionality into their boxes, as well. As I stated in the mega DLB thread, this functionality is so important to ME(and my wife), that when the day comes, when they force me to goto the new box, if it doesn't have DLB's by then, I will consider other avenues for my service.

I view this feature, the same way I view DVR's vs Non-DVR's today. Before I had a DVR, I didn't really miss anything about it, because I didn't know better. But once I got a DVR, there is now way I would ever consider a non-DVR box again.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> My comparison to "eating at a restaurant" was in respect to how people make decisions based on the reviews and comments of others.
> 
> When was the last time you decided to watch a movie that a critic trashed?
> Just because someone says something bad, doesn't necessarily mean everyone will avoid it...


Earl, I understand that. I'm saying that going to see a movie or to a restaurant is an apples and oranges comparison with changing cable/sat. providers. Much more time is involved in a TV provider change than the hour or two it takes to eat or see a movie. Therefore, negative feedback of a service that will take up a substantial amount of time to have installed, canceling previous service, etc. has much more impact on whether people actually take the leap to sign-up for cable/sat. than it does on a restaurant or movie.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> I have three theories:
> 
> 1) From a technical standpoint, they haven't figured out how to make it work and provide the stability they want. If this is the case, then I am OK with it. I would rather my recordings record than have DLB.
> 
> ...


With some of the other obvious basic things that were left out of both the HR20 and R15, I wonder if #2 is the reason. Features that are basic and IMO are obvious, like skip-to-tick (which still isn't in the R15) or a way to go from the end of the program to the begining (which wasn't added until about 8 months after the R15 was released) were left out.

They did a lot right with the HR20 and R15, ie PIP guide, one touch record etc, but they really missed the boat on several basic features, DLB's being one of them.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Currently, DirecTV only buffers one tuner. DLB = Dual Live Buffer. It refers to the ability to have two tuners being buffered constantly, much like the TiVo software does, so that you could pause live TV in one buffer and switch to the other buffer. Each buffer is independent, so you could effectively watch two live programs at the same time by continusously pausing and toggling between buffers, all without ever pressing RECORD on either tuner.
> 
> This may prompt the question, well, why wouldn't you just record both tuners? You could, but if your playlist was near full and you wanted to switch between a two-hour movie and a 3.5 hour baseball game, the HR20 would have to delete 5.5 hours of programs to record the live TV. With DLB, you could watch the movie AND the game, AND not have any programs in your playlist deleted, allowing you time to catch up on your recordings at a later date ...


I think right now the HR20 doesn't save your pause point right. Plus SLB doesn't work right either.

Now when/if they fix these, It could work. Kinda.


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## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As explained time and time and time and time and time and time and time again...
> 
> The CE process.... *IS PART OF THE FRACKING TEST PROCESS*
> If you don't like that aspect of the CE process... then don't participate... period...


CE doesn't mean they can put anything out there. That test version you talked about is called ALPHA test and it tests internally. CE means there some bugs but not the obvious ones (CID might not be able to test BUT the 30s slip counter???)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cuibap said:


> CE doesn't mean they can put anything out there. That test version you talked about is called ALPHA test and it tests internally. CE means there some bugs but not the obvious ones (CID might not be able to test BUT the 30s slip counter???)


Ummm... actually... yes it does mean they can put what ever they want out there.... It is clearly stated that their could be issues in the CE release.... (and with the 30s one... it was stated in the annoucement, that it was an identified issue... so you were given a warning).

While they do try to make sure the unit will still be functional, and work... there can and most likely will be issues with a CE.

Bottom line... call it what you want, Alpha, Beta, Gamma... 
If you don't want to deal with the risk factors for the CE... then don't download it... the versions are not forced, *you* have to initiate the download.

If you want to continue the discussion on what the CE process is or isn't... we can continue that in the CE forum.


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## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Ummm... actually... yes it does mean they can put what ever they want out there.... It is clearly stated that their could be issues in the CE release.... (and with the 30s one... it was stated in the annoucement, that it was an identified issue... so you were given a warning).
> 
> While they do try to make sure the unit will still be functional, and work... there can and most likely will be issues with a CE.
> 
> ...


If that is the case, it only shows that they are incompetent in software development and testing. I only download it if I see the benefit outweights the bugs.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cuibap said:


> I only download it if I see the benefit outweights the bugs.


I don't think that is the purpose of CE testing, is it?
Maybe you should stay with national releases and have full D* customer support.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cuibap said:


> If that is the case, it only shows that they are incompetent in software development and testing. I only download it if I see the benefit outweights the bugs.


Then you are not following the rules, nor the purpose of the CE process...

Sorry that you saw it as something other then what it is.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

cuibap said:


> If that is the case, it only shows that they are incompetent in software development and testing. I only download it if I see the benefit outweights the bugs.


Then you should not be downloading CE's at ALL!!! period... CE's are for testing the software before it is sent out to the general public. We as CE testers, test it, find the problems, report it and then they go back and work on the issues.


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## cmoss5 (May 26, 2006)

closer9 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm pretty new around here, but I used the older TiVo DVR for years and used the DLB frequently. About 2 months ago I upgraded to HD and got the HR20 and to be honest, I really don't miss DLB very much. Sure there are times I wish it was there, but I'd rather see other things fixed / implemented before DLB (read: dimming the bright ass blue and orange leds


You can turn down and even turn off the blue spiraling led lights by
pushing back and forth on the 2 sides of these until they go off...of 
course they come back on with an update or RBR and will have to
turn them off again...


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## rahchgo (Feb 2, 2007)

When I want to "emulate" DLB I simply press record on one tuner and then change to the other channel that I want to watch _and press record there, too_. PREV button will swap back and forth between the two. That's not a perfect solution, but it goes a long way.

Tivos only have DLB when neither tuner is recording. That's a small, but significant difference, but not one that I would like to pay extra for, as some have suggested.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Attack of the DLB threads.


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## philly256 (Aug 24, 2006)

The question here is: Why didn't they include DLB? That question has not yet been answered.

Earl you said said they decided not to include it but you never said what the reasoning was. Was it a trade off? Did they gain something by not including it? 

The discussion of how many people use the feature is not the point. Certainly the power users care about it as evidenced by this thread and othetr comments in this forum. 

I used it with my Tivo and I miss it.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

rahchgo said:


> When I want to "emulate" DLB I simply press record on one tuner and then change to the other channel that I want to watch. PREV button will swap back and forth between the two. That's not a perfect solution, but it goes a long way.
> 
> Tivos only have DLB when neither tuner is recording. That's a small, but significant difference, but not one that I would like to pay extra for, as some have suggested.


I would be ok with that if the pause point worked. Plus most of the time when you go back to live tv you lose the buffer. So it really doesn't work right at all. Maybe after some time they can get SLB working right and pause.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Que said:


> I would be ok with that if the pause point worked. Plus most of the time when you go back to live tv you lose the buffer. So it really doesn't work right at all. Maybe after some time they can get SLB working right and pause.


Record both & don't "pause" but use previous.
SLB does seem to work now for most [from one that it didn't].
Dumb as it may be "pausing" [which one would think is the way to go] isn't the way to go, but exiting is.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

philly256 said:


> Earl you said said they decided not to include it but you never said what the reasoning was. Was it a trade off? Did they gain something by not including it?


I have never been told the full details on why the decision was made, other then that is what was decided.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have never been told the full details on why the decision was made, other then that is what was decided.


Can you go tell you 'source' to go and start implementing DLB for us?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> Can you go tell you 'source' to go and start implementing DLB for us?


I'll get right on it.


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## philly256 (Aug 24, 2006)

Earl, I have been following these forums for a while. You know everything. The forum holds its collective breath until you speak. 

Can you ask D* what their thinking was?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'll get right on it.


But wait Earl, I want you to first.......:lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

philly256 said:


> Earl, I have been following these forums for a while. You know everything. The forum holds its collective breath until you speak.
> 
> Can you ask D* what their thinking was?


 If I find out anything... I'll let you know.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'll get right on it.


You know, if we end up getting an anouncement 2 days from now we're getting DLB I'll buy you a pizza.

MMM pizza.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Now that we have DLB coming back to the forefront, how long until we start seeing the beating a dead horse icon?

I have a suggestion, rather than having 17 different threads on DLB why don't we just create one master DLB thread so that it can grow ad infinum ..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brott said:


> Now that we have DLB coming back to the forefront, how long until we start seeing the beating a dead horse icon? :beatdeadhorse:
> 
> I have a suggestion, rather than having 17 different threads on DLB why don't we just create one master DLB thread so that it can grow ad infinum ..


Sorry Doug, but you know someone just had to.

Grouping all of the DLB threads does make sense, doesn't it?


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## sshams95 (Sep 2, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> You know, if we end up getting an anouncement 2 days from now we're getting DLB I'll buy you a pizza.
> 
> MMM pizza.


Forget pizza, how about two 50 yard line Bears seats at a game of your choice this season?

Now, that's how you buy someone off! :hurah:


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I, for one, miss DLB and would like this feature with the HR20. Seems the most common time to use this feature is when two sporting events occur live. I think D* dropped the ball when DLB was not included either by accident or design.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

brott said:


> Now that we have DLB coming back to the forefront, how long until we start seeing the beating a dead horse icon?
> 
> I have a suggestion, rather than having 17 different threads on DLB why don't we just create one master DLB thread so that it can grow ad infinum ..


Or even a dedicated DLB forum. 

Then the people that find the subject so tiresome don't even have to see the threads if they choose not to. :lol:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> I know its tough for you, but try and keep up with the thread.


 Feel better that you got that in? You know nothing about me, so why resort to a childish tactic with your oh-so-subtle sentence that accuses someone you disagree with of being "slow"?


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If I find out anything... I'll let you know.


Anyway you can ask about it again?  Thanks!


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## gNOMEintheRedHat (Feb 25, 2005)

Wednesday night, my wife was watching "Law & Order XYZ" on UHD or TNTHD or somesuch, and American Idol started recording on the other tuner.
Having owned a DVR for several years now, she just waited until there were 30 or 40 minutes recorded before she went to the list and started watching.

FOX ran over on Idol and failed to record the actual announcement of the winner. After she exploded in a fire ball from the fabricated suspense, we exited the list and exited back to Live TV. The HR20 was tuned to the L&O channel, because that's what we were watching before watchin Idol from the List. We switched over to FOX and found that there was no buffer prior to that moment!

That is why DLB is a NEED and not a WANT.
------------------------------------------------------------------

While I'll agree that MOST users don't know about DLB, it is something MANY people LOVE when they learn about it.
My Dad has been a master of watching 2 programs at once since the cable man delivered a box with a remote. (I was the remote until that day)
When my parents visited a couple years back he was switching back & forth between Discovery & History channels, I showed him how to switch tuners & watch both shows without missing anything.
He called DirecTV before they left and ordered 2 DirecTivos.

My Mom can't pull the remote from his hand now


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## mccskey (Mar 1, 2006)

What features can directv implement and increase revenue? DLB or VOD?


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

mccskey said:


> What features can directv implement and increase revenue? DLB or VOD?


It depends.

VOD won't make them a dime from me. I'm not interested in it and won't use it...especially on a pay per view type program...even if it is available. That's why I have a DVR. I record the stuff and watch the recordings. That's MY version of VOD.

DLB would probably convince me to get at least one more HR20 for the living room. As it is right now, we get by with one HD-DVR in the family room. It is an HR20 because that was our only option with D*. Given choices I would have opted for a box that had DLB because I have become very accustomed to using it. Instead since I literally "settled" for the HR20 the only room where we have HD is the Family Room and we have 7 rooms with active D* boxes on the account.

You're trying to reduce it to an easy, obvious answer when there are no easy, obvious answers to be had. Individual viewing habits, preferences and manners of equipment usage vary pretty dramatically.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

mccskey said:


> What features can directv implement and increase revenue? DLB or VOD?


Ummmm....How about both! Why does it have to be an either or situation? Easy Answer: It doesn't. They should do BOTH.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

gNOMEintheRedHat said:


> Wednesday night, my wife was watching "Law & Order XYZ" on UHD or TNTHD or somesuch, and American Idol started recording on the other tuner.
> Having owned a DVR for several years now, she just waited until there were 30 or 40 minutes recorded before she went to the list and started watching.
> 
> FOX ran over on Idol and failed to record the actual announcement of the winner. After she exploded in a fire ball from the fabricated suspense, we exited the list and exited back to Live TV. The HR20 was tuned to the L&O channel, because that's what we were watching before watchin Idol from the List. We switched over to FOX and found that there was no buffer prior to that moment!
> ...


They need to get SLB working right 1st, then DLB!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.


Bad argument. Once they know it is there, most get really happy.

You are going against the tide here. The VAST MAJORITY of the dbstalk members want DLB. They are not that odd a group, just informed.


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## Bill Marsh (Apr 22, 2007)

OK, gonna jump in here! As a newbie to the depth of this thread (no sarcasm intended) and the acronyms being used like "DLB" I decided to take a Google on this and I think that I have found the answer to "What does DLB mean?"

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/What_is_dementia/info_lewy.htm

And I do have a question. Did the older Series 2 DirecTV have DLB or SLB? I got used to the SD DirecTV box.

And what is VOD?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Bill Marsh said:


> OK, gonna jump in here! As a newbie to the depth of this thread (no sarcasm intended) and the acronyms being used like "DLB" I decided to take a Google on this and I think that I have found the answer to "What does DLB mean?"
> 
> http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/What_is_dementia/info_lewy.htm
> 
> ...


VOD is video on demand.


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## Bill Marsh (Apr 22, 2007)

Thank you for the VOD definition.

Does the DirecTV series 2 box have DLB or SLB?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Bill Marsh said:


> OK, gonna jump in here! As a newbie to the depth of this thread (no sarcasm intended) and the acronyms being used like "DLB" I decided to take a Google on this and I think that I have found the answer to "What does DLB mean?"
> 
> http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/What_is_dementia/info_lewy.htm
> 
> ...


Welcome, Bill. You should also take a look at this site's list of acronyms ... see the link in my signature below.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

mccskey said:


> What features can directv implement and increase revenue? DLB or VOD?


VOD: Won't get any revenue from me.

NO DLB: Won't get any more revenue from me. 

Seriously, the point of this thread is "what is the reason?" Earl, please ask again, I really miss this feature. Why can't you tell us the reason, assuming you know?

To the anti-DLB crowd: There are many features I don't care about, VIIV, CID, VOD. Yet, I don't go around posting how I don't care about this feature or that. To each his own. Some of you need to move on to a new thread.  I do care about DLB and I'd like DTV to know, as do others.

I agree with you HarleyD, it baffles me as well.

But again, the question is why?

Directv also needs to consider word of mouth marketing. I used to tell anyone that would listen how much better DTV was, especially with the Directivo. I don't do that right now, haven't since they announced they were dumping Tivo and their customer service slipped. I think the power users, those that know about these features, are more likely to recruit new subs for directv than your average Joe. So there is a real benefit to Directv to provide these high end features even though many may not use them.

In general, Directv is on the right path with the HR20. I like it better than the HR10 in many ways. But I really really do miss DLBs!

I would love to love Directv again. 

Oh and one last thing, I'd like my HR20 to butter my toast.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually the conversation went more like this:
> 
> Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.


Choice of program material aside ) ), I can't believe how often I do exactly what you describe above...deliberately DO NOT watch something live and instead watch something else I have previously recorded until the "live program" I was interested in gets recorded.

I find watching just about anything other than sports or breaking news "LIVE" , to be excruciating since discovering the HR20.


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## gopherhockey (Mar 24, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> Bad argument. Once they know it is there, most get really happy.
> 
> You are going against the tide here. The VAST MAJORITY of the dbstalk members want DLB. They are not that odd a group, just informed.


I'm with everyone on DLB. I had it, lost it, and its one of the features I miss the most. I knew it was there on my DirecTivo but REALLY know it isn't there on my HR20... its when I realized how often I use it.

Too bad the guys that are making the decisions don't miss it more - sounds like they are out of touch on what people want... or as long as they don't miss it, we won't see it anytime soon. Booo....

I didn't read this entire long thread of posts, but technical-wise is it that hard to add? It must be.


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## jsquash (Apr 10, 2007)

I want it and miss it and will really miss it come football season. It was one of my favorite features on my tivo and was really disappointed when I noticed it wasnt on my hr20. D*, please give us what we want.


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## difficultrun (Feb 17, 2007)

I agree 100% with gopherhockey, nowandthen, and jsquash on DLB -- I had it, loved it and still miss it! I'll never think it's a completed product until they enable DLB ... just my 2 cents.


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