# HDTV...Ding BAt



## browndog (Aug 16, 2007)

OK

I had the Dish installed and all seem to be working OK..I have what I am sure is a few dumb questions.

When watching a HD Local channel SAy the local news....The news is in HDTV and I'm seeing it in full screen 16X9 Then commercial has black bars on each side..and sometimes on top , bottom and sides...OK Why is that. I assume it's the commercials are SD..yes? no..Why is it doing that

Today I was watching the news on HD local channel and the broadcast that is usually in 16X9 had the bars on each side..I verified I was on the HD local channel. Did the network just make a Booboo...10 min latter it was normal and OK.

The reason for the questions is I want to make sure I have everything set up right. The true HD channels look like 100 million bucks. But, some of the local look good too but sometimes it says HD but I'm seeing the bars on the side but the picture looks great. Is it the network (local) just doing it 4X3?

Next..Please someone...Can you give me a link or suggest a good book on HD basics. I have 6 mos till I have to outfit the new entertainment area in the basement 1000 sq ft to be exact.

Thanks a ton and I'm learning tons

Joe


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

browndog said:


> When watching a HD Local channel SAy the local news....The news is in HDTV and I'm seeing it in full screen 16X9 Then commercial has black bars on each side..and sometimes on top , bottom and sides...OK Why is that. I assume it's the commercials are SD..yes? no..Why is it doing that


Most commercials are produced in 4:3 aspect ratio, so black bars on the sides is normal. It's called 'pillarbox'... opposite of 'letterbox' - bars on top and bottom that are seen on some widescreen movies. The commercials with black all around are 16:9, but amde to fit 4:3 - nothing you can do.



browndog said:


> Today I was watching the news on HD local channel and the broadcast that is usually in 16X9 had the bars on each side..I verified I was on the HD local channel. Did the network just make a Booboo...10 min latter it was normal and OK.


Was it the same local news channel mentioned above? Not all local news stations can broadcast in HD.



browndog said:


> The reason for the questions is I want to make sure I have everything set up right. The true HD channels look like 100 million bucks. But, some of the local look good too but sometimes it says HD but I'm seeing the bars on the side but the picture looks great. Is it the network (local) just doing it 4X3?


HD local channels still broadcast 4:3 SD content, it just mirrors what's on the normal SD broadcast. Usually, the 4:3 SD content looks better on the HD channel than the SD channel.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

You are correct. If it has sidebars, it's 4:3. Just because a network (or other chan) says HD doesn't mean the content is always HD. There is still lots of upconverted SD.

SD is upconverted in two ways. Sidebar is the best, but some (notably TNT HD) stretch SD and pretend it's HD.

To be clear, the transmission is actually 16:9, it's the content that's not.


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## browndog (Aug 16, 2007)

Taco...Yes, it was the same news mentioned above. Yesterday it was 16:9 HD and looking great..Today it looked great but had the bars on each side..then 10 min later it went back to normal.


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## browndog (Aug 16, 2007)

WJE..OK I get it now. Funy, watching TNT now and I see what you are saying.

Man, tons to learn

Joe


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

browndog said:


> Taco...Yes, it was the same news mentioned above. Yesterday it was 16:9 HD and looking great..Today it looked great but had the bars on each side..then 10 min later it went back to normal.


Okay, then all I can think of is that it was the station's glitch. It happens.

Welcome to the world of HD.


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## ggulch (Jul 25, 2007)

browndog said:


> OK
> 
> I had the Dish installed and all seem to be working OK..I have what I am sure is a few dumb questions.
> 
> ...


This may well be a function in how your 16:9 TV stretches a 4:3 picture, if you have it set up to do that. On my Sharps, you can usually select at least Normal or Stretch, if not another couple of options under View Mode. Sometime they (seemingly at random) forget the mode I've selected and I have to reset it.

When I'm watching an OTA broadcast it's common to see the picture change from full 16:9 to 4:3 with side bars depending on which aspect ratio the material was edited and output in.

HTH,
Ron


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

And the video content doesn't have to be 16:9 to be HD. Northern Exposure was shot in 4:3 and is being broadcast in 1080i with black on both sides. It looks much better than before. And it looks much better than it would if TNT HD was the source with their stretch O vision. The first time I got my shiny new 622 and HD TV and watched something on TNT HD I though my new toys were broken.



They could make it fill the screen, Just stretch it, or just chop off the top and bottom. Neither of which appeals to me.

WLIW on their SD channel is broadcasting a show called Rosemary and Thyme in something between 4:3 and 16:9, Cripes!

If it was letterboxed SD I could just use full zoom and it would fill the screen and everything would be the correct aspect ratio. This mess tho either full zoom and lose some of the top and bottom or don't full zoom and have everybody look squashed or leave it as is and not fill the screen.

It seems to start out life in England as 16:9.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

HDTV is still in it's infancy. Local broadcasters who have upgraded to HD news still have some SD content that has to be shown. Most chose the above mentioned "pillar box" which looks real stupid on SD commercials shot in 16X9. Maybe someday an advertiser will see just how stupid their commercials look on HD sets (a small 16X9 image inside a larger 16X9 screen). Even if the 16X9 commercial was shot in true HD, the local broadcaster may not have the necessary equipment to broadcast it in true HD. The only true HD commercials I've seen are all fed by the networks.

Another thing that may cause an otherwise HD broadcast to suddenly go SD 4X3 is if there is an emergency where they have to run a crawl to alert the local viewers of an approaching storm or an "Amber Alert". The equipment needed to superimpose the crawls are, for the most part, SD devices. After paying for the HD cameras, digital transmitters, and new news sets, additional items necessary for a continuous true HD feed are missing at the local level.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

TBoneit said:


> And the video content doesn't have to be 16:9 to be HD. Northern Exposure was shot in 4:3 and is being broadcast in 1080i with black on both sides. It looks much better than before. And it looks much better than it would if TNT HD was the source with their stretch O vision. The first time I got my shiny new 622 and HD TV and watched something on TNT HD I though my new toys were broken.
> 
> They could make it fill the screen, Just stretch it, or just chop off the top and bottom. Neither of which appeals to me.
> 
> ...


European (not just the UK) has been broadcasting in a quasi-widescreen format for years. They just lop off a few lines on top and bottom of their 625/50hz pictures. It's not a true 16X9, just something that fakes a wide screen appearance on a 4X3 screen.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Just about every local news that I have watched in HD only has the studio shots in 16:9 HD. Field footage or archive tape is 4:3 SD.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

ssmith10pn said:


> Just about every local news that I have watched in HD only has the studio shots in 16:9 HD. Field footage or archive tape is 4:3 SD.


Most local news stations do not want to pay the hefty price for HD cameras for use outside where it is more likely to be damaged than in the studio.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Just about every local news that I have watched in HD only has the studio shots in 16:9 HD. Field footage or archive tape is 4:3 SD.


That's how it was for KCRA in Sacramento, then their field cameras went to 16:9 SD. Still better than 4:3 with HD graphic sidebars.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Michael P said:


> European (not just the UK) has been broadcasting in a quasi-widescreen format for years. They just lop off a few lines on top and bottom of their 625/50hz pictures. It's not a true 16X9, just something that fakes a wide screen appearance on a 4X3 screen.


As may be, just lopping off some of the top and bottom doesn't even make it good faux HD. I'm pretty sure when it was shot the people on the screen did not have the top of their head missing. It just looks bad when the tops of peoples heads are cut off.

I sure hope that practice doesn't catch on here.You take content that was shot in 4:3 and butcher it?

The whole HDTV thing is a poorly thought out spec, rushed by the Government to reclaim frequencies for other uses. Way to many people hear analog cutoff and believe they will get 16:9 HD. Not so, Analog cutoff = digital only, not HD. 480i is digital. Can you really see TV stations saying to themselves, we'll use the entire channel to deliver one really good quality channel instead of 2, 3, 4, whatever lower quality feeds that can all generate revenue?

OT: Am I the only one getting a lot of "The Server is to busy" messages?


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Got server to busy and it posted twice, go figure


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## Artwood (May 30, 2006)

Why don't NBC, CBS, and ABC spend enough money so that all their newscasts can fill the whole screen?

The Today show is HD in the studio and 4:3 everywhere else. Couldn't they just steal the cameras that do the Tonight Show and use them for news?


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Big difference between portable and not portable The studio camera is different from one that can be taken out on the street. Much more expensive to record in HD and edit in HD.

Studio cameras have no way to record they all feed to a control room that also supplies a sync signal so they can cut between cameras and have everything be in sync.

Portables need to be much smaller and lighter and have a way to record. They are going to cost way more than a SD portable.

They could I suppose do a ersatz HD from them. Shoot as if they were LB and then Trim the video to 16:9. It would then fill the screen with lower rez video. Would that make you happy though?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

TBoneit said:


> Got server to busy and it posted twice, go figure


I've also been getting more and more frequent "Server too busy pages".


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