# Closed Captions issue



## RainyCity4 (Feb 13, 2006)

I know I've already posted this before but I'm posting again...

After 5 software updates on my R15, I'm STILL experiencing issues with my closed captions (Every 5 - 10 minutes, the captions get scrambled completely). Since the new TV season is rapidly approaching, I need to get this fixed so I can use it as my secondary DVR (I use R-10 as my primary right now).

I called DirecTV and got passed on to R-15 Tech Support and they had the gall to BLAME it on my TV captioning! I tried to point out that it was NOT the TV because I had that TV for 8 years and I had never had any problems with closed captions. They said that they don't "support" closed captions issues because they don't have closed captions "chip" in R15, therefore it is out of their hands.

I find it freaking silly and right now, I'm very, very angry at DirecTV and I'd like to collect enough evidence that I'm NOT the only one who is experiencing this issue.

I'm asking you (the community) a huge favor...Can you tell me if you have experienced scrambled captions on your R15 or not? It it at its worst when it is a "pop-up" captions (versus scroll up) and it usually happen at 10 minute intervals, so if you don't mind watching a 30 minute show with CC on, can you check and let me know?

1) If you DO have problems, how often and how bad?
2) If you DO NOT have problems, please reply too.
2) Where do you live? (I'm not sure if it is a transmission problem on west coast or not)

Thanks so much!

Brent


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

They're wrong: they are very much responsible for CC issues. While they don't generate the text (the TV does) they are intimately involved in the process. MPEG doesn't pass the VBI without mucking it up, so they send that data separately. The receivers (all of them since DirecTV's inception) is responsbile for regenerating the VBI so the TV's CC decoder can use it. 

If you're absolutely sure the R15 is doing something wrong (compare identical broadcasts between R15 and R10, preferably using the same TV), then get the FCC involved. They are very interested in devices that don't handle CC correctly. I recall they got involved in a DTiVo issue (it may even be why your R10 works correctly).


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## RainyCity4 (Feb 13, 2006)

Anyone tested their R15 with closed captions yet? I'm feeling mighty lonely here.  

Earl/wolfpack -

Since you both seem to like to "test" your R15 quite frequently, can you check on the closed captions on channels 4 - 16 for me? It seems to have been a bit better with the most recent update (I can now watch nearly half of the show without any closed caption issue). So, if you don't mind watching a half hour to a hour show and observe any "jumbled" (nonsensical words) or caption popping up twice, the second one overwriting the next sentence and let me know?

Much appreciated!

Brent


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I use CC every so often. It's usally pretty good. I could try using it more but if it's locals you having issues with than it would be better to have someone in you area test it out since locals are not the same and it could be the data from your local station or the data you local station gives to D*.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

If he's having CC problems on his R15 that he's not having on his R10, then it's not his locals and it's not the local uplink to DirecTV.


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## leo81948 (Aug 11, 2006)

I use close captioning all the time and so far I have not experienced any abnormal problems with it on either of my R15-300s. I only get the usual screwups with cc., ie, a line left out here and there, an occasional scrambled word, typos, etc. But if cc does start to go real flakey I will be most definitely on the horn to DTV.


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

As my wife is deaf, our captioning is on 24/7. As leo81948 stated, there is an occasional typo or dropped word, but nothing near what you're describing. You say that right now your R-10 is your primary receiver. Is the captioning functional on that receiver on the same television on the same channel? Can you move your R-15 to a different television and see if the results are the same? If you use the R-15 on 2 sets with the same result, then you can tell D* that it is definitely a h/w issue with the receiver.


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## White_Horse (Jun 26, 2006)

My mother-in-law is deaf and lives with us. I don't watch the same tv she does, she has her own R-15 in her rooom, she hasn't mentioned any problems with the cc.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> If he's having CC problems on his R15 that he's not having on his R10, then it's not his locals and it's not the local uplink to DirecTV.


That's what I'd think but if it's just his locals that have the issues I was thinking that a better comparison would be with someone in his area with an R15. Becuase ours might work ok with our locals but someone else in his area may not. Just figured it would be a better test. Now if it's happen on any channel we could test it. Or if it's just happening on his it could just be the his R15 or the TV.

Brent have you tried it on another TV or had them send you a new R15? I wouldn't even both having them send you a new R15 if you haven't tried it on another TV, who knows maybe there was a change in CC technology and the R15 isn't backward compatable with your TV? It sounds weird but I guess it could happen.


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## RainyCity4 (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks to all who replied.

I need to try it on my R10 TV to make sure it is not the TV that is causing the problem first.

To answer some questions:

1) R10 has dropped letters or words (same as some of you mentioned), it is usually worse on ABC and somewhat less on NBC and CBS but perfect on FOX.

R15 does not seem to show much of the dropped characters (I guess because it mangles so much of the words that it doesn't matter). However, on FOX, it mangles the captions when it is perfect on R10. This leads me to believe it is NOT local uplink/downlink issue.

2) Anyone lives in NW? I live in Seattle area.

3) Yeah, it happens exclusively on local channels (ABC/CBS/NBC/PBS/FOX) but not on "national" feed but last night I actually caught it mangling one sentence on the "Power Rangers" channel (I can't remember what's channel that is). But that was the only occurence I've seen so far on a "national" feed.

If several of you said you have not seen this happen, I guess it could have been my DVR because I watched New England play against Indy Colts in January (They were in playoffs?) and it captioned just fine but I can't remember if the playoff game was on local channel or on ESPN.

Brent


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I can try it on 2 R-15's and an R-10 tonight using the same TV if I remember. Also if I can find the CC setting on the TV, I dont think I have ever used it.


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## RainyCity4 (Feb 13, 2006)

I finally convinced DTV to send me a new box and I wasn't too surprised to find out that it didn't fix the problem I'm having. I used to have 500 series but got a 300 series and caption issues is still there.

I'm assuming it is a local problem (Seattle) and most likely, a spot beam issue.

Naturally, CSR department says that I'm 'the only one that has this problem' and I'd like to know if anyone who lives in Seattle area with a R15 has same caption problem? 

Thanks.

Brent


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Can't answer for the NW, but I haven't had that issue with captioning here in NJ.

You say that the issue is only with the R15 (both old and new box) but not with the R10.

* Did you try to swap the R15 and R10 to make sure that the issue isn't with the wiring leading to those boxes or the TV hooked up to the boxes?

* Does the problem occur only with recorded shows on the R15, or both live and recorded shows?


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I forgot to post my findings before but my CC worked fine on both my R-15's and R-10 when I tested this before. I think its TV dependent.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Located in Seattle, Seattle locals. Two R15's (both are R15-500) and one R10. All three on UHF modulators so I can watch them on any TV.

Tuned Seattle channel 4 (ABC) at roughly 10 PM this (Sat) evening. Both R15's exhibited garbled closed captioning regularly. The R10 did not exhibit garbled closed captioning.

The pattern was consistent regardless of which TV I watched.

Overall, I watched for perhaps 20 minutes.

From this very brief test, it would appear that the R15 does in fact manifest the problem and the R10 does not.

Carl


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

carl6 said:


> All three on UHF modulators


Have you tried them directly hooked to the TV ? Just asking as both my R-15's display CC perfectly.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes. Both R15's are connected to their local TV via composite video/audio connections. Same indications on CC as when watching the modulated signal.

The advantage of using the modulators is I can compare each device on each TV, so I know it is not a specific DVR/TV combination or pairing, or a TV problem.

The R10 has good CC regardless of which TV I watch it on, and regardless if I use composite or modulated signal.

The R15's have garbled CC regardless of which TV I watch them on, and regardless if I use composite or modulated signal.

I normally do not use CC. But on the TV I most commonly watch I have it set to display when the audio is muted. That TV is normally fed by an R15. When I do mute the audio (normally during commercial breaks when watching live tv), I notice garbled CC but never paid it much attention as only some commercials have closed captioning and there is no telling what the captioning feed is doing on those that do not specifically have it.

Carl


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## RainyCity4 (Feb 13, 2006)

Carl6,

THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!  

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one in Seattle that is seeing same problem and yes, I tried two different TV's, different cables, etc. and still saw same problem.

I suspect that R10 handles it better than R15 for some reason, so it is definitely a transmission issue. I'll talk to DirecTV about this.

Brent


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

leo81948 said:


> I use close captioning all the time and so far I have not experienced any abnormal problems with it on either of my R15-300s. I only get the usual screwups with cc., ie, a line left out here and there, an occasional scrambled word, typos, etc. But if cc does start to go real flakey I will be most definitely on the horn to DTV.


The typos are not caused by DTV, they are in the stream. For live shows like news and sports, there are lots of typos as the CC service is doing this real time.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

jwd45244 said:


> The typos are not caused by DTV, they are in the stream. For live shows like news and sports, there are lots of typos as the CC service is doing this real time.


My favorite instance of that was when I was watching a football game in a restaurant with CC and no sound. They were penalized for an "intangible receiver"


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> My favorite instance of that was when I was watching a football game in a restaurant with CC and no sound. They were penalized for an "intangible receiver"


LOL, Sometimes I'll turn on the CC if I can't hear something that well and it's funny to see the stuff that comes on the CC that doesn't come over the air or gets changed. I've seen more info in the CC sometimes then they say on the show. Like in LOST where the CC show Kate screaming to Jack when Desmond had a Gun to Locke.


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## mmpotash (Nov 12, 2005)

It is not just with DirectTV, but also with Dish Network HD. Here is my post:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=683786#post683786


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