# Weren't plasmas "dead" a year or two ago?



## sigma1914

Maybe people are slowly realizing plasmas have a much better PQ and much less motion blur?



> 2010 Plasma Shipments Saw Rebound
> By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 2/3/2011
> 
> Santa Clara, Calif. - A recent DisplaySearch study found plasma panel shipments grew every quarter, year over year, during 2010.


http://www.twice.com/article/463405-2010_Plasma_Shipments_Saw_Rebound.php


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## bobukcat

I can believe the part about further sales growth being supply limited. One of my sisters and a friend of mine both wanted to buy 65" Panasonic Plasmas during the Christmas season and had to settle for something else because they just couldn't find them anywhere local. Best Buy told them they could get one in late January or early February - that was almost an 8 week lead time!

BTW - both of these people were set to buy LED Backlight LCDs before they talked to me.


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## convem24

I love my 50 inch panasonic plasma. My only quandry is when I move (which I will in the next year) is moving the blasted thing. That is the only reason I want to go to an LED (blacklit not edgelit) because of weight issues.


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## sigma1914

bobukcat said:


> I can believe the part about further sales growth being supply limited. One of my sisters and a friend of mine both wanted to buy 65" Panasonic Plasmas during the Christmas season and had to settle for something else because they just couldn't find them anywhere local. Best Buy told them they could get one in late January or early February - that was almost an 8 week lead time!
> 
> *BTW - both of these people were set to buy LED Backlight LCDs before they talked to me.*


Well done, sir. :lol:


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## Go Beavs

I had an old 2003 plasma. Nice picture compared to my old CRT.

Then in '09 I got my Sony LCD. It blew the old plasma out of the water.

So, when the old plasma died a few months ago, I had it in my mind that I'd replace it with a new LCD... Until I saw the new Plasma's in the showroom.

The picture blew away those LCD's and the pricing was very competitive too. The new low gloss screens were also a great feature. My mind was changed and I ended up bringing a Panasonic VT25 home.

The picture looks so much better than my Sony LCD. I'm definitely a believer in plasmas now.


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## bobukcat

convem24 said:


> I love my 50 inch panasonic plasma. My only quandry is when I move (which I will in the next year) is moving the blasted thing. That is the only reason I want to go to an LED (blacklit not edgelit) because of weight issues.


It still weighs less than a 36" CRT and is much easier to move IMO even though it's larger overall.


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## davring

Maybe people are slowly realizing plasmas have a much better PQ and much less motion blur?

Quote:
2010 Plasma Shipments Saw Rebound
By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 2/3/2011

Santa Clara, Calif. - A recent DisplaySearch study found plasma panel shipments grew every quarter, year over year, during 2010.
http://www.twice.com/article/463405-...aw_Rebound.php

ALL flat panel sales are up, it doesn't say their share of the market increased.


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## Stuart Sweet

Really, I think the growth in plasmas is due to two things: first of all they are now considerably cheaper than LCDs and second they have been rebranded as "PDPs" confusing people who heard bad things about plasmas.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## FHSPSU67

I never had a plasma until September of this year when I got my Panasonic TC-P65VT25. Took me quite a while to save the $$$'s for it and a professional ISF/AVS calibration, but it is gorgeous, and 3D is definitely here to stay!


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## Satelliteracer

Power consumption and heat were a concern for me. We added a LCD this Christmas. I was tempted to get a Plasma but the power and heat were a turn off on what I was seeing. The picture is much better than the last time I was in the market for a tv, however.


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## calgary2800

bobukcat said:


> I can believe the part about further sales growth being supply limited. One of my sisters and a friend of mine both wanted to buy 65" Panasonic Plasmas during the Christmas season and had to settle for something else because they just couldn't find them anywhere local. Best Buy told them they could get one in late January or early February - that was almost an 8 week lead time!
> 
> BTW - both of these people were set to buy LED Backlight LCDs before they talked to me.


Which model? the 65 S2 or 65 VT25? I have the 65 S2 and to be honest its a hit and miss TV sometimes. Not at its best with movies but shines in bright scenes material, its a bright plasma.


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## P Smith

Thanks to the end of Arny's term - no ban settled for plasmas in CA.


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## camo

calgary2800 said:


> Which model? the 65 S2 or 65 VT25? I have the 65 S2 and to be honest its a hit and miss TV sometimes. Not at its best with movies but shines in bright scenes material, its a bright plasma.


That was my impression when I was comparing side by side while shopping. Plasmas just didn't seem bright enough for my taste. I ended up replacing my plasma with a high end LG LED. I watch sports all the time and have never noticed motion blur. Not sure about console games, I've never tried it out. 
I would consider plasmas again if they have brightened up the picture, but hoping I won't be in the market anytime soon. More than happy with the setup I have now.


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## Drucifer

Stuart Sweet said:


> Really, I think the growth in plasmas is due to two things: *first of all they are now considerably cheaper* than LCDs and second they have been rebranded as "PDPs" confusing people who heard bad things about plasmas.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Once you stated the first there was no reason to state the second.


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## Stuart Sweet

Perhaps, but that's never stopped me before :lol:

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## Laxguy

Code:







camo said:


> That was my impression when I was comparing side by side while shopping. Plasmas just didn't seem bright enough for my taste. I ended up replacing my plasma with a high end LG LED. I watch sports all the time and have never noticed motion blur. Not sure about console games, I've never tried it out.
> I would consider plasmas again if they have brightened up the picture, but hoping I won't be in the market anytime soon. More than happy with the setup I have now.


Plasmas not bright enough?? My Samsung Plasma is set in the middle, and is plenty bright. There's a huge downside to looking at displays in stores and making comparisons: You never know what the settings are in the store, and the set next to it may be maxed out, and the bright lights all over don't give a "good look".


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## MysteryMan

Question for you plasma owners. Come Spring I will be adding a entertainment room to my home. Unlike my Home Theater room there will be plenty of natural lighting during the day and controlled lighting at night. I plan on installing a large screen, wall mounted HDTV. My question is will reflective glare be a problem with a plasma HDTV?


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## Mike Bertelson

bobukcat said:


> It still weighs less than a 36" CRT and is much easier to move IMO even though it's larger overall.


IIRC a 36" CRT tops out at over 200#. A 50" plasma is closer to a 27".

My Panasonic 50" G10 weighs about 75#. My 27" Panasonic CT-27G24 also weighs about 75#.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson

MysteryMan said:


> Question for you plasma owners. Come Spring I will be adding a entertainment room to my home. Unlike my Home Theater room there will be plenty of natural lighting during the day and controlled lighting at night. I plan on installing a large screen, wall mounted HDTV. My question is will reflective glare be a problem with a plasma HDTV?


I have a big picture window in my living room and I have no glare problems.

It will definitely have less glare problems than a CRT but is more susceptible to glare than an LCD.

Mike


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## Laxguy

Mike Bertelson said:


> I have a big picture window in my living room and I have no glare problems.
> 
> It will definitely have less glare problems than a CRT but is more susceptible to glare than an LCD.
> 
> Mike


Same, though I put in a large folding screen (Asian design, mostly black to keep with the so-called decor) to prevent glare from the large side windows. Dunno how glare compares among the types of screens.


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## bobukcat

calgary2800 said:


> Which model? the 65 S2 or 65 VT25? I have the 65 S2 and to be honest its a hit and miss TV sometimes. Not at its best with movies but shines in bright scenes material, its a bright plasma.


They were both looking for the VT25, I don't know if they asked about the S series or not. Both ended up buying 58" Sammys because they wanted them by Christmas.


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## mechman

I've calibrated several plasmas now, including a Kuro, and several varieties of LCD/LEDs. They both serve a purpose. I would never recommend a plasma in a well lit room. And I would never recommend a LED/LCD in a dark room. All that being said, I would never replace my projector in my dark room with a plasma. And I would never replace my edge lit LED in my living room with a plasma either. Plasmas are selling like hot cakes because they are cheap. 

Motion blur? Rarely, if ever, is this a product of the display. Most of what is seen as motion blur is in the source material. As for picture quality, I'd say it's a wash. I had trouble with the gamut on one of the plasmas. The LCD/LEDs depended upon the model. My 32" Hannspree in the bedroom was pretty much a waste to even measure or try to adjust. But a lot of other models were no trouble to adjust - Sony, LG, Panasonic.


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## SayWhat?

I have a furnace to heat my home. Don't need to have a TV do it.




Sent from a computer using my fingers.


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## texasmoose

I love my pdps. I will never go back to a LCD/LED. Power hungry and IR are a thing of the past. Never have any viewing angle problems with 'em either. I got my 2-LGs for the price my brother paid for his Sony 52LED.


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## mechman

texasmoose said:


> I love my pdps. I will never go back to a LCD/LED. Power hungry and IR are a thing of the past. Never have any viewing angle problems with 'em either. I got my 2-LGs for the price my brother paid for his Sony 52LED.


Your 50" plasma uses 288 watts of power optimized according to Cnet. 
The Sony KDL-52EX700 uses 142 watts according to Sony. But since I own this model and I have a watt meter amongst my gear... calibrated, it uses 120 watts.

Are plasmas power hungry? Yes, they are.


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## Hutchinshouse

My next TV will be a plasma. My ONLY concern in image retention (burn-in). Is this still an issue with plasma?


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## RAD

Hutchinshouse said:


> My next TV will be a plasma. My ONLY concern in image retention (burn-in). Is this still an issue with plasma?


Some say yes, some say no, but there was this post today from someone with a 2010 model Samsung plasma, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19963218#post19963218 . I also have a 1 1/3 month old Samsung and while no burnin I do notice some image retention, like when using the Pandora internet app, when the clip art is moving around on the screen I can see a 'shadow' where it used to be postion for a little while. And yes, I've taking the set out of 'tourch' mode. But other then that love the set, very happy with the improvement in PQ over my four year old Samsung LCD (LN-S4696D).


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## FHSPSU67

Hutchinshouse said:


> My next TV will be a plasma. My ONLY concern in image retention (burn-in). Is this still an issue with plasma?


Not a problem at all with my Panasonic TC-P65VT25. Incidently, burn-in is permanent while image retention goes away with use. The advice I was given was to avoid pillar bars or letterboxes for the first couple hundred hours which I did with a few short-period exceptions. After that, image retention is the temporary culprit, and can be cleared with a scrolling white bar TV function, or through just normal full-screen viewing.


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## Stuart Sweet

Still seems like a lot of work just to watch TV.


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## RAD

Stuart Sweet said:


> Still seems like a lot of work just to watch TV.


I think I spend more time with issues on my DIRECTV hardware then my TV


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## Hutchinshouse

Stuart Sweet said:


> Still seems like a lot of work just to watch TV.


I kind of agree. I just want to watch what I want when I want. That is my only beef with plasma.


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## Stuart Sweet

Arguably, there was a time when I spent a lot of time babying the DVR. But that time has long since passed.


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## deanconst96

Hutchinshouse said:


> My next TV will be a plasma. My ONLY concern in image retention (burn-in). Is this still an issue with plasma?


I have a 4 year old Panny plasma and it's never been an issue.


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## Mike Bertelson

FHSPSU67 said:


> Not a problem at all with my Panasonic TC-P65VT25. Incidently, burn-in is permanent while image retention goes away with use. The advice I was given was to avoid pillar bars or letterboxes for the first couple hundred hours which I did with a few short-period exceptions. After that, image retention is the temporary culprit, and can be cleared with a scrolling white bar TV function, or through just normal full-screen viewing.





Stuart Sweet said:


> Still seems like a lot of work just to watch TV.


I've had a plasma for four years and I haven't done anything except use DVE to calibrate it. Beyond that I've never worried about letterbox, pillar bars, window box, etc.

I've never had a burn in problem nor image retention.

Once in a while in a black screen I'll see a ghost similar to what we used to see with our old CRTs. It's never been visible while watching programming.

I would never spend days with a computer desktop on the screen or non-stop ticker (CNN, ESPN, etc) for days on end. I have been home sick and had 6-7 hours of Syfy pillar box or window box stuff on and never had a problem.

Based on my experience and research, image retention is a very minor problem and burn in almost non-existent. While under the right conditions it still happens, IMHO, the problem is way over blown and a non issue with regular everyday TV viewing.

Oddly it still seems to be biggest criticism and a reason a lot of people, whom I've talked to, give for buying an LCD.

Yes, they use more power than an LCD but a lot less than a CRT did.

Same goes for heat. I used to be able to feel the heat coming of my 27" Panasonic when I walked past it but I feel nothing from my 50" plasma. Yet people are under the misconception that they give off a lot of heat.

Another misconception is weight. My 50" plasma is just under the weight of my 27" CRT (70lbs vs 75.5lbs). A 52" Sharp Aquos has a weight of 66lbs...even accounting for the extra two inches it's not really the huge difference some make it out to be. And, it's no where near the 200+ lbs for the 34"-37" CRT back in the day. I helped a friend move a 37" CRT up a flight of stairs once....once. 

Mike


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## FHSPSU67

Mike Bertelson said:


> I've had a plasma for four years and I haven't done anything except use DVE to calibrate it. Beyond that I've never worried about letterbox, pillar bars, window box, etc.
> 
> I've never had a burn in problem nor image retention.
> 
> Once in a while in a black screen I'll see a ghost similar to what we used to see with our old CRTs. It's never been visible while watching programming.
> 
> I would never spend days with a computer desktop on the screen or non-stop ticker (CNN, ESPN, etc) for days on end. I have been home sick and had 6-7 hours of Syfy pillar box or window box stuff on and never had a problem.
> 
> Based on my experience and research, image retention is a very minor problem and burn in almost non-existent. While under the right conditions it still happens, IMHO, the problem is way over blown and a non issue with regular everyday TV viewing.
> 
> Oddly it still seems to be biggest criticism and a reason a lot of people, whom I've talked to, give for buying an LCD.
> 
> Yes, they use more power than an LCD but a lot less than a CRT did.
> 
> Same goes for heat. I used to be able to feel the heat coming of my 27" Panasonic when I walked past it but I feel nothing from my 50" plasma. Yet people are under the misconception that they give off a lot of heat.
> 
> Another misconception is weight. My 50" plasma is just under the weight of my 27" CRT (70lbs vs 75.5lbs). A 52" Sharp Aquos has a weight of 66lbs...even accounting for the extra two inches it's not really the huge difference some make it out to be. And, it's no where near the 200+ lbs for the 34"-37" CRT back in the day. I helped a friend move a 37" CRT up a flight of stairs once....once.
> 
> Mike


I agree entirely with everything you say. This was my first plasma and I probably spent way too much time over at AVS where a lot of members actually use break-in slides for the first 200 hours. I could never do that, but being new to plasmas, I did take it easy during the break-in period which passed quickly. Now I just watch TV as I normally did with my previous TV and am still amazed every time I walk into my living room and see the gorgeous picture.


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## Nick

FHSPSU67 said:


> ...over at AVS where a lot of members actually use break-in slides for the first 200 hours.


Yeah, right! And I drive every new car I buy under 45mph for the first 5000 miles.

Really!


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## Scott Kocourek

I bought a 42" Plasma for my bedroom last year and I do get image retention on occasion but it lasts only a few seconds, as for heat I cannot say it's mounted on the wall above a dresser so we never walk next to it and with 11' ceilings you never know it anyway. For us it was a good purchase, nice picture with quite a savings over a comparable LCD model.


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## BobaBird

Nick, I think it's safe to say we all now know the left-turn signal works. 

I've never noticed retention on my last of the line 50" Pioneer Elite. It does get warm but I only notice that by putting my hand over the back panel.


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## Laxguy

58" Samsung plasma in LR, now about 14 months old, plenty of use, never noticed any burn in or ghosting. But seldom watch letterboxed shows, and 90% of the time I'm on DirecTV, so if I pause and leave room, screen saver comes on. It is very sweet. 

Even my son doesn't seem to mind too much if I exclaim "Now, isn't that picture gorgeous?!" (!) but not more than once a week.....


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## Jason Whiddon

I've got a VT30 on preorder, 65" of plasma goodness


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## Steve

elwaylite said:


> I've got a VT30 on preorder, 65" of plasma goodness


Sweet! I love my calibrated 65S1, so I can just imagine how great the VT30 is gonna look. I've got that one, along with two older tweaked 42" Panny plasmas, and PQ is as good as it gets, IMHO. I still haven't seen an LCD/LED display that beats any of mine.

I will say the thin, sleek, LED/LCD's are beautifully designed appliances, tho. I can understand the WAF for them.


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## Jason Whiddon

All signs appear to have it been a incremental step over the VT25, which should be awesome. Im getting a VT30 and BDT210 2011 3D player, cant wait. The preorder units should ship from Value Electronics in early May.

I have a 58" S2, and IMO, they took a step back from the S1. I wish now that I would have gotten a Samsung C550 in that range.


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## calgary2800

I read in plasmabuying guide that the S2 has better blacks than the S1 and is a brighter set. What dont you like about the S2?


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## Jason Whiddon

It has better blacks, but a horrible gamma of 1.9. It makes for a more washed image than the S1. Ive seen calibrators recommend an onsale S1 over a new S2, when the S2 came out. I let my Samsung phobia get the better of me, when I should bought the C550. No biggie now, since Im replacing it


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## calgary2800

Well, I've owned 3 Panasonics Plasmas 

2010 S2
2008 800u
2007 75u-720p

I would rank the S2 as 2nd place and the best TV was the 720p 75U, which I feel is the most underrated plasma ever made. The contrasts and colors could match todays set easily. 

The 800u was abysmal dim with a audiophile speakers. No pop to the set at all, it was however reference material with Dark Knight in Blu Ray, that was about the only time it wowed me. 

The S2 is pretty good for most of us out there, I'm happy with the overall brightness of the set, to my eyes its pretty close mix of LCD bright and plasma richness. I got the 65 S2 and for the money and best buy 3 year no interest payment I got a great deal.


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## Jason Whiddon

Its just a matter of preference. The bad gamma I mention is actually what helped the brightness, just two different views on PQ


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## spartanstew

If it weren't for WAF, DLP would still be King.


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## RAD

spartanstew said:


> If it weren't for WAF, DLP would still be King.


My wife has no problems with my DLP, not everything needs to be mounted on a wall and be < 1" thick.


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## Nick

RAD said:


> ...not everything needs to be mounted on a wall and be > 1" thick.


You can say that again!


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## Jason Whiddon

I almost bought a Samsung LED DLP when they first came out.


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## spartanstew

RAD said:


> My wife has no problems with my DLP, not everything needs to be mounted on a wall and be < 1" thick.


Agreed. My wife loves all 3 of ours.


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## B Newt

Go Beavs said:


> I had an old 2003 plasma. Nice picture compared to my old CRT.
> 
> Then in '09 I got my Sony LCD. It blew the old plasma out of the water.
> 
> So, when the old plasma died a few months ago, I had it in my mind that I'd replace it with a new LCD... Until I saw the new Plasma's in the showroom.
> 
> The picture blew away those LCD's and the pricing was very competitive too. The new low gloss screens were also a great feature. My mind was changed and I ended up bringing a Panasonic VT25 home.
> 
> The picture looks so much better than my Sony LCD. I'm definitely a believer in plasmas now.


The only reason I didnt go with plasma is the glossy screens. I will have to look for a low gloss screen plasma.


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## Laxguy

B Newt said:


> The only reason I didnt go with plasma is the glossy screens. I will have to look for a low gloss screen plasma.


Could it be that glossy screens look better than others in low light; worse than others in mid-to-bright light? I believe that's the case with laptop screens, and don't see why it might not apply to large TVs- maybe moreso.


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## armophob

RAD said:


> My wife has no problems with my DLP, not everything needs to be mounted on a wall and be < 1" thick.


In my house it does. It has been many many years since a tv was furniture in my house. Tv should be a frame not a cabinet. Just IMHO


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## RAD

armophob said:


> In my house it does. It has been many many years since a tv was furniture in my house. Tv should be a frame not a cabinet. Just IMHO


If all that was there was the frame and nothing else, maybe. But what else do you have along with that TV and where is it. Where I have my DLP it's sitting on top of a nice TV stand that has my DIRECTV hardware, PS3, WII, AVR on in it (and the TV doesn't stick out over either the front or back of this stand. Plus to go with that is a subwoofer on one side and a UPS on the other. So with all the other 'stuff' that goes with it IMHO having it as a 'frame' is offset but all the stuff that goes with it.

Now if you have a setup with all that additional hardware hidden away out of sight great but if you still have all that other stuff is it that important?


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## armophob

RAD said:


> Now if you have a setup with all that additional hardware hidden away out of sight great but if you still have all that other stuff is it that important?


I have 80% of it in a closet. But the few pieces that need IR control I put off to the side so their display lights do not distract from the display on the wall. We all all different in our viewing preferences.


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## StvRbrsn

Im a plasma guy thru and thru.


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## armophob

So what is the best plasma out there now in the 55" - 65" range? If it is assumed I do not care about 3D.


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## Laxguy

armophob said:


> So what is the best plasma out there now in the 55" - 65" range? If it is assumed I do not care about 3D.


I'd point you to Consumerreports.org and cnet.com for reviews and background. I chose Samsung 15 months ago, from a long time Sony 'involvement'. Couldn't be happier; 58" in the LR.


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## StvRbrsn

armophob said:


> So what is the best plasma out there now in the 55" - 65" range? If it is assumed I do not care about 3D.


Well, the best in the range will get you 3D regardless, but...

I've had Panasonic for awhile and feel theyve rested on the laurels a bit too much, without addressing some customer concerns. Main reason Im swapping and buying a Samsung 64". When you get into flagship models, both are great though.


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## armophob

StvRbrsn said:


> Well, the best in the range will get you 3D regardless, but...


Yea, I am learning that now on cnet.


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## StvRbrsn

Even the cheapest 1080p plasmas will have 3D this year. Also keep in mind, crosstalk was an issue last year, Samsung especially, but both Panasonic and Samsung have improved here. Also, Samsung plasmas had more potential for glasses sync issues, but they went to Bluetooth this year to correct.


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## armophob

Best buy has the Samsung PN58C550G1F on sale for $1299. I do not think it is 3D. But this may be my new 1080p plasma.


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## StvRbrsn

C550 is very very good set in price range.


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## sigma1914

armophob said:


> So what is the best plasma out there now in the 55" - 65" range? If it is assumed I do not care about 3D.


Either the Samsung PNxxC8000 or Panasonic TC-PxxVT25. The best models happen to do 3D, too.


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## sigma1914

armophob said:


> Best buy has the Samsung PN58C550G1F on sale for $1299. I do not think it is 3D. But this may be my new 1080p plasma.


Read around here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=167

I find Consumer Reports to be geared towards "Average Joes," rather then tech nerds like us. CNet's getting pretty bias, as well.


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## Juanus

Just a side note about the samsumgs... if you can wait a few months (March-April) Samsung is going to release their new models for the year. These have the super thin Bezels and have RVU built it. (If you are on DirecTV, this will be cool) The new models will have D instead of C in the model number (ex. PNxxD8000) This is the only thing stopping me from picking up one today.


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## StvRbrsn

Yepp, thats what Im waiting on. 8000 flagship should be April, lower end models should start this month,


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## armophob

I can wait. But I will most likely be targeting the current models that will be dropping in price with the new models introduction. Thanks for the heads up.


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## RAD

armophob said:


> I can wait. But I will most likely be targeting the current models that will be dropping in price with the new models introduction. Thanks for the heads up.


That's if you can find current year models. Some folks have been reporting that sets that they've ordered are on backorder and the vendor isn't being given any idea when they might be available.


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## StvRbrsn

Panasonic and Samsung are smart, stop production early enough so no overlap, but makes for tight supply.


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## DodgerKing

The only problem with Plasma's is bright rooms. Many of our rooms are bright with lots of big windows, this makes watching Plasma's or CRT's nearly impossible during the day time. 

The other issue is high elevation. We cannot put a plasma in an otherwise dark townhouse in our place in Mammoth at over 8,000ft in elevation


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## StvRbrsn

Panasonics work at over 9000ft.


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## Codeman00

DodgerKing said:


> The only problem with Plasma's is bright rooms. Many of our rooms are bright with lots of big windows, this makes watching Plasma's or CRT's nearly impossible during the day time.


Some of the new plasmas are bright enough to watch in bright rooms; however you cannot have any windows, etc behind you because they will reflect off the screen. I bought the Panny 58VT25 and the picture is bright and stunning (calibrated)...I'd put it up against anyone's TV. However, I did have to put curtains up on the windows behind my couch for day time watching. A small price to pay for plasma perfection.


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## StvRbrsn

The better plasmas do have better AR filters, but you are right, no windows behind you. Also, each year they are getting brighter, mine is only using 70 contrast because any higher is too bright for me.


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## calgary2800

StvRbrsn said:


> The better plasmas do have better AR filters, but you are right, no windows behind you. Also, each year they are getting brighter, mine is only using 70 contrast because any higher is too bright for me.


What set do you have?


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## StvRbrsn

S1, time for upgrade


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## Herdfan

Mike Bertelson said:


> My Panasonic 50" G10 weighs about 75#. My 27" Panasonic CT-27G24 also weighs about 75#.


I could live with that, but my circa 2005 Hitachi 55" Plasma weighs in at around 140#. It is in the living room and aside from heat output, it has been a great TV. Just too hard to take off the wall when I need to.


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## StvRbrsn

65VT25 is 120lbs
63C8000 is 98lbs

not bad


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## armophob

Herdfan said:


> I could live with that, but my circa 2005 Hitachi 55" Plasma weighs in at around 140#. It is in the living room and aside from heat output, it has been a great TV. Just too hard to take off the wall when I need to.


I modified an engine hoist to place and remove my sets off the wall.


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## P Smith

armophob said:


> I modified an engine hoist to place and remove my sets off the wall.


Please post a picture(s) of the mod.

How many ppl need to place 140 lbs TV set to your wall safely ?


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## Steve

P Smith said:


> Please post a picture(s) of the mod.
> 
> How many ppl need to place 140 lbs TV set to your wall safely ?


2 people can do it. I have a friend who's a professional installer, and I watched him and his assistant mount a 65" plasma recently. Took them about 15 minutes to find the beams and securely screw the bracket to the wall, and about 5 minutes to screw the bars onto the plasma and hang it. Easy when you know how!


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## P Smith

I did 32" to a wall, but thinking how I could do the 140 lbs alone ..


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## Drucifer

Steve said:


> 2 people can do it. I have a friend who's a professional installer, and I watched him and his assistant mount a 65" plasma recently. Took them about 15 minutes *to find the beams [stud]* and securely screw the bracket to the wall, and about 5 minutes to screw the bars onto the plasma and hang it. Easy when you know how!


This where most DIY'ers fail big time.


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## StvRbrsn

Easy to buy $20 stud finder off Amazon, what I did. Problem is, has to stay in garage because it goes off when I walk by...


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## Mike Bertelson

StvRbrsn said:


> Easy to buy $20 stud finder off Amazon, what I did. Problem is, has to stay in garage because it goes off when I walk by...


Ba-Dum-Bump-Crash 

!rolling


----------



## armophob

P Smith said:


> Please post a picture(s) of the mod.
> 
> How many ppl need to place 140 lbs TV set to your wall safely ?


I had to add one more section of square steel to make the reach to the wall. I am sure that increases the tipping point. But the 100-200lbs won't do it. The arm has holes in it so it can be retracted for use in the garage. Comes in handy unloading the pick up as well.


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## Herdfan

P Smith said:


> How many ppl need to place 140 lbs TV set to your wall safely ?


I get my neighbor when I need to remove mine. But it takes 3 people: Two to lift the set and a 3rd to press the release button on the mount once a little weight has been taken off it.


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## Laxguy

Bada bing!
Next time take the roll of quarters outta yer jeans...

Bada bam!

From my iPhone via DBSTalk


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## StvRbrsn

Mike Bertelson said:


> Ba-Dum-Bump-Crash
> 
> !rolling


Hehe, tough crowd.


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## Jason Whiddon

Just found out my VT30 65" is shipping to Value Electronics on 4/25, so I should have in early April. Cant friggin wait.


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## Jason Whiddon

Well, I caved into the size gods and did a flip, especially after talking to owners. 73" Mitsu 838 arrives Monday


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## dmurphy

Resurrecting an old thread, but I just ordered a Panasonic 55" ST30 Plasma last night. I picked it up from Best Buy for $1510.

I thought that was a good deal ...

I'm moving into a new house in two weeks and need a TV for the finished basement; the existing two flat-panels go upstairs.

I currently have a Samsung HP-R4252 - 42" Plasma - that'll go in the family room upstairs, and a 40" Insignia LED LCD.

I'm much in love with the Samsung, but the Insignia (LG) left a lot to be desired. (I knew I was getting a cheap unit -- I violated my personal "you get what you pay for" rule!) Motion blur sucks on the Insignia - it gives me vertigo, actually.

Any opinions on the Panasonic ST30's? I'm basically committed to it at this point, but wanted to know if anyone has this year's ST-series.

Thanks!


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## Jason Whiddon

Its a very good set for the price, good color out of the box,. If you get it calibrated, it'll look even better.


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## Steve

Lot's of good Panny ST30 info available here.


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## palmgrower

Samsung PN59D8000FF works well in my rooms with medium to high light levels


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## FarmerBob

So was DLP. But now Mitsubishi has stopped making LCD and for big ass (73" - 93"+) LaserVue units. That are just amazing. I first bought a 50" Samsung and after three + years it has the most incredible picture. And any crap you show on it looks gorgeous.

I have a 73" in storage waiting for the remodel of the area it's going into to be completed. Then a couple of the really big ones will have to go somewhere. I'll build place.

P.S.
When you go to see 3D movies or even 2D's, they're projecting them these days using Tri-Chip DLP projectors. The best picture on the planet.


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## Dr_J

I've had a LG Infinia 60PZ950 60-Inch plasma TV for a couple of months now. The picture is absolutely stunning, and in 3D, it's like looking out a window into the world. The DirecTV tech who came out to do my dish realignment was shocked that it was a plasma. He thought it had to have been an LED. Plasma must not have had a very good picture quality in its early days to have this apparent stigma attached to it.


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## Hutchinshouse

Plasma is still king this year:
http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-6482_7-688.html?tag=featuredStory

However, my long awaited LG Nano is still in the wings. 

On a side note, I saw the Sony LCD-LED flagship, the XBR-HX929 series at Best Buy. Wow, talk about black levels. Even CNET said the 929 has the best black levels of 2011.


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## dettxw

Hutchinshouse said:


> Plasma is still king this year:
> http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-6482_7-688.html?tag=featuredStory
> 
> However, my long awaited LG Nano is still in the wings.
> 
> On a side note, I saw the Sony LCD-LED flagship, the XBR-HX929 series at Best Buy. Wow, talk about black levels. Even CNET said the 929 has the best black levels of 2011.


Dang but that David Katzmaier is a smart guy!


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## sigma1914

I'll never go back to LCD after going plasma last year.


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## Hutchinshouse

sigma1914 said:


> I'll never go back to LCD after going plasma last year.


I've never owned a plasma.

In the past, black levels were dominated by plasma. It seems plasma's black levels have been surpassed by LCD-LED. Plus, that LG I'm waiting on "should" have better blacks than the Sony 929. So as far as I'm concerned, plasma no longer has the black level advantage.

I know flagship plasmas are really good with color reproduction. Same goes with recent LCD-LED TVs.

I know most LCD-LED TVs have blooming issues. This new LG Nano "should" eliminate blooming. I know that remains to be seen.

Let's say black levels and color reproduction are a draw. What does plasma still do better than LCD-LED? Is smooth motion the only remaining obstacle?

When I was watching the Sony 929, right next to it was the Panny VT30. At no point did I think the Panny's picture was better. I'm not being a smart a**, I really truly want to know what to look for. I see smooth motion as the only remaining obstacle. Am I missing another picture criteria?


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## SayWhat?

FarmerBob said:


> I have a 73" in storage waiting for the remodel of the area it's going into to be completed. Then a couple of the really big ones will have to go somewhere. I'll build place.


Now I know why milk is $4/gallon or more.


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## Shades228

The largest complaint I have with Plasma is the heat of the unit. I really don't like to use my AC unless it gets over 90 however if the family is watching movie night with all the bodies plus the heat from the TV it warms the family room up fast. I love the picture but with the pictures that LED-LCD's can do now it's a harder sell.


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## Mike Bertelson

Shades228 said:


> The largest complaint I have with Plasma is the heat of the unit. I really don't like to use my AC unless it gets over 90 however if the family is watching movie night with all the bodies plus the heat from the TV it warms the family room up fast. I love the picture but with the pictures that LED-LCD's can do now it's a harder sell.


Wow, that sounds like a lot of heat. I found my 50" plasma puts out less heat than the 27" CRT it replaced. :shrug:

Mike


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## Shades228

I have a 52" Samsung Plasma and you can deffinately feel it. I heard that they ran hotters so I never checked into it much. Maybe I'll do some more research on it.


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## davring

We use A/C more than 8 months a year and I could not see any sense putting any more heat into the house than necessary. If the TV draws 500/600 watts it takes an equal amout of A/C effort to offset the heat. A good LCD draws around 100 watts, big difference.


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## SayWhat?

Radiated heat is one of the main reasons I stayed away from them. I get some from my 32" LCD, but not much.


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## Steve

FWIW, just checked the new Sharp "Elite" LCD's vs. the current Panny top of the line plasmas.

Sharp PRO-70X5FD 282W
Sharp PRO-60X5FD 204W

Panasonic TC-P65VT30: 159 W
Panasonic TC-P55VT30: 119 W


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## davring

Steve said:


> FWIW, just checked the new Sharp "Elite" LCD's vs. the current Panny top of the line plasmas.
> 
> Sharp PRO-70X5FD 282W
> Sharp PRO-60X5FD 204W
> 
> Panasonic TC-P65VT30: 159 W
> Panasonic TC-P55VT30: 119 W


Looks like those numbers might be reversed. Cnet listed the P55VT at 285w after calibration.


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## Steve

davring said:


> Looks like those numbers might be reversed. Cnet listed the P55VT at 285w after calibration.


Maybe that's peak wattage? Check my links above. Those are specs from the MFR sites. For Panny, that's listed as "On Mode Average Power Consumption." :shrug:


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## davring

Steve said:


> Maybe that's peak wattage? Check my links above. Those are specs from the MFR sites. For Panny, that's listed as "On Mode Average Power Consumption." :shrug:


They just seemed low to me, thats why I double checked. I just installed my fathers's new 65" plasma Samsung and the rear label listed 505 watts


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## Steve

davring said:


> They just seemed low to me, thats why I double checked. I just installed my fathers's new 65" plasma Samsung and the rear label listed 505 watts


That's gotta be either start-up requirement or perhaps if your run it in "Vivid" (aka "torch") mode, like they do in the stores? I have a 2-year old calibrated Panny 65" S1 we watch in "Cinema" mode, and it barely gets warm to the touch. That said, it's not wall mounted. It's on a stand about 12" from the rear wall.


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## davring

Steve said:


> That's gotta be either start-up requirement or perhaps if your run it in "Vivid" (aka "torch") mode, like they do in the stores? I have a 2-year old calibrated Panny 65" S1 we watch in "Cinema" mode, and it barely gets warm to the touch. That said, it's not wall mounted. It's on a stand about 12" from the rear wall.


I beleive all ratings are for maximum draw.


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## P Smith

The device Kill-O-Watt is on sale now, just $15 and you'll have factual numbers !


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## RAD

Don't feel like trying to see the label on my 51" plasma but it's got an energy star rating http://www.samsung.com/us/pdf/energyguides/tv/PN51D8000FF.pdf


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## Mike Bertelson

RAD said:


> Don't feel like trying to see the label on my 51" plasma but it's got an energy star rating http://www.samsung.com/us/pdf/energyguides/tv/PN51D8000FF.pdf


My Panasonic plasma is Energy Star rated too. It throws much less heat then my old CRT did.

Mike


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## P Smith

Make, can you measure it in STBY mode and full blown during lunch time ?


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## iceturkee

those of you who own sammy plasmas.......i'm thinking of picking up a 50 in 720 second hand. i've never owned a plasma and it has been years since i owned anything 720. your thoughts would be appreciated. the tv is about a year old. thanks.


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## TBlazer07

Not sure about all the heat talk (on new) Plasma's but I got a Panasonic 50VT25 a few months ago and after 3-4 hours continuous use the metal back (or even where the exhaust fan vents) isn't even slightly warm to the touch. Previous Plasma was a 4yr old 50" NEC and that did get VERY warm especially where the exhaust fans were located. This new one astounded me with the lack of heat. I need to get one of those cheap infrared thermometers and actually measure it. We keep room temp at ~75F year round.

What I found even more surprising was the lack of any image retention whatsoever, even after watching the rare 4:3 program with black bars. 

This new one weighed around 69 lbs vs 95 for the original.


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## Kevin F

"iceturkee" said:


> those of you who own sammy plasmas.......i'm thinking of picking up a 50 in 720 second hand. i've never owned a plasma and it has been years since i owned anything 720. your thoughts would be appreciated. the tv is about a year old. thanks.


I have a Sammy 720p plasma and it produces a great image. It's about 3 years old and can display 1080p/24 according to the ps3. Model PN50B450

Kevin


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## Steve

iceturkee said:


> those of you who own sammy plasmas.......i'm thinking of picking up a 50 in 720 second hand. i've never owned a plasma and it has been years since i owned anything 720. your thoughts would be appreciated. the tv is about a year old. thanks.


You might want to sit your normal viewing distance away from this image and see if you can tell the difference between 1080p and 720p. I have 20/20 vision and if I sit 6' or 7' away, I honestly can't tell which is which. YMMV.

That image came from this page.


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## iceturkee

Kevin F said:


> I have a Sammy 720p plasma and it produces a great image. It's about 3 years old and can display 1080p/24 according to the ps3. Model PN50B450
> 
> Kevin


the model i'm looking at is a pnc450. truthfully, i can't always tell the difference between 720 and 1080p either.


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## Laxguy

"iceturkee" said:


> the model i'm looking at is a pnc450. truthfully, i can't always tell the difference between 720 and 1080p either.


Got a 58" Sammy plasma 18 months ago. Love it! no heat problem.


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## mutelight

Steve said:


> Panasonic TC-P65VT30: 159 W


Just ordered one of these on Friday to mount behind the projector screen in the living room.


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## Steve

mutelight said:


> Just ordered one of these on Friday to mount behind the projector screen in the living room.


:up:

Back in June, ZDNet had this to say about it:


> Superb all-around picture quality, anchored by the deepest plasma black levels of the year, make the Panasonic TC-PVT30 series the best-performing TV we've tested in 2011.


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## TechPrime

IMHO -
It's funny how people can sometime fail to see the obvious difference between a good plasma TV and even the best LCD around. I haven't seen even one LCD with a comparable image to my 'ok' plasma (LG PK550). Even if current generation LCDs are on par when it comes to color gamut and even dynamic range - it just doesn't look the same, it look worse.


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## Jason Whiddon

Yeah, plasma sucks...


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## P Smith

elwaylite said:


> Yeah, plasma sucks...


Too many drinks last night ?


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## Jason Whiddon

Hehe. Just sarcasm.


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## mechman

TechPrime said:


> IMHO -
> It's funny how people can sometime fail to see the obvious difference between a good plasma TV and even the best LCD around. I haven't seen even one LCD with a comparable image to my 'ok' plasma (LG PK550). Even if current generation LCDs are on par when it comes to color gamut and even dynamic range - it just doesn't look the same, it look worse.


I doubt your 'ok' plasma would stand up to the best LCD/LED...


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## FarmerBob

mechman said:


> I doubt your 'ok' plasma would stand up to the best LCD/LED...


Neither would stand up to my or the newer DLP's. Why do you think DLP projectors are used in movie theaters instead of LCD's.


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## Jason Whiddon

DLP PJ's are nice, tv's, not so much.


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## FarmerBob

elwaylite said:


> DLP PJ's are nice, tv's, not so much.


The projectors are incredible at 4k. And the TV's themselves are just as incredible. Not up to 4k yet, but none the less. Looks likes you have never seen one or haven't really read through this thread? Or you wouldn't have made such a "blanket" statement.


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## Jason Whiddon

Nope, owned a 73" 2010 738 Mitsu DLP. Not impressed, too height dependant and the view angle sucks, as well as no true 24hz capability, and weak black levels. PASS.

My 64" D7000 beats it on everything but size (the tv that replaced the Mitsu). Sure, they are great if you can sit straight out and have it low enough to avoid the hotspot. Too many requirements for a everyday use tv, but maybe be fine in a HT room designed for it.

In case you are wondering, in the last 3 years Ive owned 2 plasmas, 2 LED LCD's, and one DLP. So I have plenty of experience.

There is a reason only one company is making them, and those cheap 70" and 80" sharp LCD's are fixing to be the death of them


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## lparsons21

While I prefer and own a Panny plasma, and think overall it is the best way to go in a TV, it is hard to ignore the Mitsi DLP bigscreens. Talk about bang for the buck!!

From 60" up through the line, they all have 3D just buy the glasses, and the pricing is absolutely great! I came 'this' close to buying a 73" this year but couldn't quite pull the trigger...


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## Jason Whiddon

And then there is the fact doorways and straight lines like to curve in video due to crappy geometry, and bulbs, oh the bulbs. Screen size is not everything.


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## John Williams

elwaylite said:


> and those cheap 70" and 80" sharp LCD's are fixing to be the death of them


Depends on if you're talking about the Elite models or the regular Sharp models.
I haven't seen the Elite models yet but they cost a small fortune, so I'm guessing these aren't the models you are talking about. I HAVE installed and calibrated several 60" and 70" regular Sharp models now. They are the biggest POS Sharp has come out with in awhile. And here is how I really feel about them:
I wouldn't pee on them.
I wouldn't recommend one to someone I hated.
Why would anyone waste thier money on this junk, even as cheap as they are.
Pull them out of the box and put them into the dumpster.
Might as well buy a Vizio, I think it might be better.

While some of these customers admitted it wasn't what they expected and made comments like "well at least it was cheap". Other customers thought the picture was great on them - they either are in denial or have no comprehension of picture quality.
Lets face it.... it is more than obvious to people in the industry, most people have very low standards when it comes to quality/performance of electronics these days.


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## Jason Whiddon

The 600 series do not fare well, but the 700's have been doing fine. If I was gonna buy one, its be around the 732. Is it more expensive than a DLP? Yes. Is it better? IMO, yes.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20240028&postcount=15

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC70LE7...XGAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325018801&sr=8-1

Would I buy either before the plasma I currently own? Nope. Regardless of what anyone thinks, DLP's big advantage was price and size, and IMO, anyone caring a whole helluva lot about PQ was not buying a cheap 600 series Mitsu either. It's price per screen size that sold them to people that don't know any better. Now sharp is in that game and caught up quick, Sharp is currently preparing to kick Mitsu in the teeth IMO, but we'll see 2 years from now. I think Mitsu DLP tv's only have 1-2 yrs left.

As far as the Elite goes, EXTREMELY overpriced IMO when you lay out how little it beats a VT30, D8000 and XBR 929.

BTW, all my tv's have been calibrated since early 2008, and I now do them myself (not professionally). So I dont just bash tv's without reason.


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## FarmerBob

elwaylite said:


> Nope, owned a 73" 2010 738 Mitsu DLP. Not impressed, too height dependant and the view angle sucks, as well as no true 24hz capability, and weak black levels. PASS.
> 
> My 64" D7000 beats it on everything but size (the tv that replaced the Mitsu). Sure, they are great if you can sit straight out and have it low enough to avoid the hotspot. Too many requirements for a everyday use tv, but maybe be fine in a HT room designed for it.
> 
> In case you are wondering, in the last 3 years Ive owned 2 plasmas, 2 LED LCD's, and one DLP. So I have plenty of experience.
> 
> There is a reason only one company is making them, and those cheap 70" and 80" sharp LCD's are fixing to be the death of them


Sorry to hear that you got a bad one. And I also remember when looking for mine that the previous Mitsubishi's did have their issues. That why I went Samsung. My DLP replaced a 35" Mitsu with a $10K Diamond Vision Tube. Which was amazing. But exposure to one DLP is not "plenty of experience" with that form factor. You may have also gotten a Tuesday Set. But all mine (a 2008 Samsung HL50A650, that is true 1080p24, 30, 60 and 3D out of the box) and the ones (some being the new Laservues) I have installed are incredible. I have had DISH Field Supervisors use my 2008 Samsung DLP to see PQ issues that they got complaints about. We use to have PQ parties and what they and just a couple of weeks ago the Xfinity Internet installers saw has always led to remarks of amazement and added business on my end. I'm setting up one of the installers with one after the first of the year. My sales recs on these are through the roof and acted upon 90% of the time. The other 10% are times or people that want or need a thinner screen.

Sorry again that you had "issues" with the "one" DLP you encountered. But that does not mean that DLP's are in general as you generally stated.


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## lparsons21

elwaylite said:


> And then there is the fact doorways and straight lines like to curve in video due to crappy geometry, and bulbs, oh the bulbs. Screen size is not everything.


I've seen them and never noticed those faults. As for the bulbs, yep you do have to change them out. About $100/year to do that.

I had a 61 JVC HD-iLA before I went to the Panny. I was happy with it, but good bulbs for it were about $200 but would last a bit longer than a year for my use. I had always wanted a plasma and finally the prices got in line with what I wanted to pay and switched.

And while I do like the Mitsi DLP sets, most likely I'll procrastinate and end up with another Panny plasma a bit bigger...


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## mystic7

I've always said plasmas have a better pq than LCD. My Panasonic plasma is 5 years old now, fake 1080i (upconverted 720p) and yet the picture is killer. 5 year old technology! No reason for plasmas to go away.


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## FarmerBob

lparsons21 said:


> I've seen them and never noticed those faults. As for the bulbs, yep you do have to change them out. About $100/year to do that.
> 
> I had a 61 JVC HD-iLA before I went to the Panny. I was happy with it, but good bulbs for it were about $200 but would last a bit longer than a year for my use. I had always wanted a plasma and finally the prices got in line with what I wanted to pay and switched.
> 
> And while I do like the Mitsi DLP sets, most likely I'll procrastinate and end up with another Panny plasma a bit bigger...


Sounds like I am the luckiest person on the planet. I have close to, if not over, 8,000 hours (rated for 4.5k) on the first bulb that has been in use since Sept.16, 2008. And the picture is still gorgeous. Replacement price for the same bulb $99. My neighbor the German Physicist is on his third Plasma in that amount of time. Those crazy Physicists and their gasses.


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## FarmerBob

elwaylite said:


> . . . I think Mitsu DLP tv's only have 1-2 yrs left. . .


In what respect? Mitsubishi quit making LCD's last year and retooled to focus on DLP exclusively. With some amazing stuff on its way. So I would imagine they're in it for the long haul.

But from what I can see in your conversations, you are not looking for Theater quality, but "Bang for the Buck". Then you won't need to be worrying about any of the new 4k gear.

P.S. 
The new Sharps are not Sharp Elites. They are making the new Pioneer Elite series. OF WHICH I find a very strange combo. Unless Sharp has hidden rabbits other than 4 color. Which my DLP has 6.


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## Mike Bertelson

TechPrime said:


> IMHO -
> It's funny how people can sometime fail to see the obvious difference between a good plasma TV and even the best LCD around. I haven't seen even one LCD with a comparable image to my 'ok' plasma (LG PK550). Even if current generation LCDs are on par when it comes to color gamut and even dynamic range - it just doesn't look the same, it look worse.


I agree that Plasma has the better picture when compared side by side, but it is HD after all. I've see plenty of LCD TVs that look great.

I'll stick to plasma until something better comes along but I don't think it's fair to say LCD as a bad picture because it doesn't.

My 3.34¢ FWIW. :grin:

Mike


----------



## bobukcat

John Williams said:


> Depends on if you're talking about the Elite models or the regular Sharp models.
> I haven't seen the Elite models yet but they cost a small fortune, so I'm guessing these aren't the models you are talking about. I HAVE installed and calibrated several 60" and 70" regular Sharp models now. They are the biggest POS Sharp has come out with in awhile. And here is how I really feel about them:
> I wouldn't pee on them.
> I wouldn't recommend one to someone I hated.
> Why would anyone waste thier money on this junk, even as cheap as they are.
> Pull them out of the box and put them into the dumpster.
> Might as well buy a Vizio, I think it might be better.
> 
> While some of these customers admitted it wasn't what they expected and made comments like "well at least it was cheap". Other customers thought the picture was great on them - they either are in denial or have no comprehension of picture quality.
> Lets face it.... it is more than obvious to people in the industry, most people have very low standards when it comes to quality/performance of electronics these days.


I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who can see how crappy the picture is on those new Sharp LCDs! And while I'm at it can I say how tired I am of them calling them "LED" TVs? Most people are so horribly mis-informed about the products they are buying and this just compounds the issue IMO.


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## bobukcat

lparsons21 said:


> And while I do like the Mitsi DLP sets, most likely I'll procrastinate and end up with another Panny plasma a bit bigger...


If I were on a budget and / or wanted the biggest screen size for the buck I would buy DLP (certainly over the Sharp LCDs) but when I want the best picture I'm going Plasma or Projector every time. I just gave away a 5 year old Mits 720P DLP to my BIL, and I was never truly happy with it because of geometry issues from the very beginning that Mits refused to do anything about because "it was within spec" - even though they couldn't provide a specification that it supposedly met.


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## Steve

I'm not sure how cheap DLPs are these days, but I just received this deal in the mail. An LG 60" plasma for $800 from Dell, after coupon code: XD8WLFNDV?7X4P

Pretty hard to beat that!

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...5364064&dgc=BA&cid=70494&lid=1787883#Overview


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