# NEED YOUR HELP; Regarding issues wth my HOA



## marv800 (Aug 20, 2007)

I ^%#$ hate homeowners associations.

Bunch of losers with nothing to do in their life except to reign over the tiny sliver of authority they have in their lives.

Most of these ^%#$ jackasses have never known any semblance of power or authority in their whole life until they were elected President of the HOA, where all 3 people even voted. I'll bet most presidents of HOA's have never gotten laid from anyone other than a cheap street walking, crackhead prostitute.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I happily have my DirecTV installed on the roof of my townhome. While I would rather install it on my balcony, it faces East, so its impossible. DirecTV requires a S-SW line of sight to their geosynchronous satellite. There was no way around placing my dish on the roof.

So, I'm happily minding my business, enjoying my new service (much better than Comcrap), when I got a certified nastygram from my HOA.

Basically, they tell me that my shiny new dish is in violation of my HOA regulations and that I have 14 days to remove it, they will exercise their right to come onto my property and remove the dish, and subsequently charge me for the expense. I was stunned... How can they do this? I understand that it may be unsightly for some jackass that has nothing better to do than drive around, looking at people's roofs, but this is insane.

So I basically write back that I have no other place to put in, without: A) blocking the line of sight for the dish, rendering it useless, or B) having the dish protrude into a common area not exclusively controlled or owned by me. I also went on to say, that sending me a certified letter written in a threatening tone was wholly uneccessary. I continue to explain that any unauthorized intrusion on my home would be considered to be trespassing or burglary, and would be addressed by myself as such.

This weekend, I get a response (certified letter, priority mail this time) from them saying that they are withing their rights to take any means necessary to remove the offending dish, including hiring deputies. All such costs would then be billed back to me and and failure to pay would likely result result in litigation.

This made me lol. Since I get sued 10+ times a year for far more serious things, I couldn't help but wonder if this jackass has nothing better to do with his life. Obviously, his rapid response, and care adherance to documenting everything via certified mail, tells me that my little DirecTV dish has now become the focal point of his miserable life, and his very mission to even exist. However, this didn't erase the bitterness I tasted from realizing that I may lose the battle.

That is, until I found this:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

To me, this obviously tells me that the HOA is 100% in the wrong. The feds have explicitly and specifically prohibited the restrictions in my HOA. Now with this little trump card, I'm trying to decide how to play it. Should I just print this out and send it back to them and include a picture of me giving them the finger? Perhaps I should wait it out until they arrive, and be sitting on my roof with a Benelli 12 Gauge in my lap, and this document in my hand. Maybe I should let them sue me, and rack up huge attorneys fees of my own, so when they lose and and are forced to pay my attorney bills, I bankrupt them (in Texas, the prevailing party in a breach of contract suit, is entitled to recover attorney fees).

Help me out brothers and sisters! I really want to shove it up their ass in the worst way.

After the HOA concedes defeat im gonna do the following:

1. Add an entire 10x10 grid array of dishes on my roof. I can get the actual dishes quite cheaply on Ebay.
2. I'm gonna add a ****load of blinking Christmas lights on every one of them.
3. I could paint them in festive colors like bright pink with lime green polka dot
4. I'm gonna get the below 20x10 vinyl graphic made and put it on my garage door:


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## HolyRoses (Aug 11, 2007)

your picture is at least funny.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

LOL, that picture is hilarious! Thank you for the laugh. As for the HOA, as you saw OTARD prohibits them from removing the dish. I would reply back with the OTARD rules highlighted, if that fails, then have an attorney write a letter back with OTARD rules & perhaps threaten litigation for harassment if they fail to comply. You are in the right, but I am sure they'll make it a nightmare for you in the process though.


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## MattG (Dec 31, 2003)

Legally your HOA has does not have the right to make you take it down and I found this with a bit of googling:

Q: Who do I call if my town or neighborhood association is enforcing an invalid restriction?

A: Call the Federal Communications Commission at (202) 418-0163. Some assistance may also be available from the direct broadcast satellite company, multichannel multipoint distribution service or television broadcast station whose service is desired. 


Paint your dish dayglo orange, it's cheaper and easier than installing a 10x10 grid.


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## smimi10 (May 22, 2006)

Your post doesn't mention if your townhome is a condo-townhome, or wholly-owned by you, so this Q&A may or may not apply, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

"Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?

A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own. If the townhouse is a condominium, then the rule applies as it does for any other type of condominium, which means it applies only where you have an exclusive use area. If it is a condominium townhouse, you probably cannot use the roof, the chimney, or the exterior walls unless the condominium association gives you permission. You may want to check your ownership documents to determine what areas are owned by you or are reserved for your exclusive use."

Good luck with this, however it turns out.


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## Skooz (Jul 20, 2007)

Please please please keep us updated.

I like nothing better than to hear of these pompous, self-important, whiny, little tin horn dictators getting a little of what they so gleefully give.

Why anyone would subject themselves to one of these politburos is a mystery to me.


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## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

Here's the most telling part of the document:


> *Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?*
> 
> A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own. If the townhouse is a condominium, then the rule applies as it does for any other type of condominium, which means it applies only where you have an exclusive use area. _If it is a condominium townhouse, you probably cannot use the roof, the chimney, or the exterior walls unless the condominium association gives you permission. You may want to check your ownership documents to determine what areas are owned by you or are reserved for your exclusive use._


You'll need to refer to your ownership documents as suggested, before getting into what could be a very expensive "mine's bigger than yours" contest. If you 'own' the roof, then you're in the clear. If it's a condominium townhouse (as in the italicized portion), then you're SOL.

And in any event, you can't put up dozens of dishes - the rules only cover


> ... the antennas necessary to receive service.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

smimi10 said:


> Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?
> 
> A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own.


I've read this before and always been curious as to where the homeowner's "roof" ends and the HOA's "roof" beigns. Since re-shingling of the roof is usually a HOA burden and not one for the homeowner. I also have never owned a townhouse/condominium.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV. However, if I were, that's one area that I would make sure I understand before sending them pictures of your "bird". You'll probably need to contact a lawyer and have them give a thorough read of your purchase agreement/closign documents/HOA covenants to answer this question.


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## dcrabtree (Mar 30, 2007)

marv800 said:


> I ^%#$ hate homeowners associations.
> 
> Bunch of losers with nothing to do in their life except to reign over the tiny sliver of authority they have in their lives.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you figured out the FCC is on your side; however, I am the President of the HOA where I live and contrary to your generalization of 'most HOA President's', I have never had issues getting laid~ and am currently married to one fine babe.

...just send the guy the FCC law and let it go, anything else and he knows he's gotten to you...enjoy your programming.


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## Reggie3 (Feb 20, 2006)

First you should calm down. Antagonistic attitude toward the HOA will get you no where. 
You need to print out the gov reg. Send a registered copy to the HOA and highlight the rules you think apply to you. 
I would also email a copy to them if you have that option, but use the registered letter for documentation.

You should offer them the right to choose where you can mount the dish if it will work in the location you choose. Give them some options - can help sooth them 

Start preparing a back up letter - but don't send until they have rejected your submittal. In the letter you can outline that you will take them to court if they touch any of your items. 

The proper way for them to deal with this is legally (I'm a ex VP of my HOA) and they would put a lean on the house. With the lean you can then take them to small claims court and show the judge your FCC rules and get the lean taken off.

If they do remove the dish on their own - you get a estimate from the dish company to reinstall it - and sue them in small claims court


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I'd strongly suggest you read the HoA documents before you do much more. While there is federal law protecting your right to put up a small dish...that right only extends to it being on your property. If that roof is not your property (the case with many townhouses) you have a problem. There may also be a regulation that where you put the dish has to be approved, in advance, by the HoA.

Also, I can understand you're upset...but you could tone down the language here. 

If you get sued 10+ times a year and can still afford DirecTV you must have a decent lawyer...I'd suggest giving him/her a call and getting a quick opinion before getting in deeper.


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## jeffreydavisjr (Jul 12, 2007)

Please keep us updated. I as well would love for you to stick it to that [email protected]$tard

Can you post some pictures of your house from the road? I would love to see what this guy is complaining about...

I also agree that legal assistance may be needed. I would seriously consider at least speaking with an lawyer, if it is affordable to you.

But I think replying to them one last time and sending a copy of the FCC document you referred to, highlighting specific areas of the document.

Good luck and keep us informed.


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## donshan (Jun 18, 2007)

smimi10 said:


> Your post doesn't mention if your townhome is a condo-townhome, or wholly-owned by you, so this Q&A may or may not apply, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
> 
> "Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?
> 
> ...


+1. This is the answer you must pay attention to.

Check your property tax papers. I lived in a "townhouse" style condo a few years ago with all the units shared common side walls and looked like one big building. However, I owned the land under my unit and paid the annual property taxes on my land and condo unit. The common areas such as the pool were a separate property tax paid by the HOA out of my assessment. If you pay your own property taxes on the land and your unit you have an iron clad case to put up your dish. However, if the property taxes on the whole complex are paid by the HOA out of a share of your assessments you need to check further to avoid further conflict.

In the case of apartments where the landlord owns the entire building you are still permitted to mount your dish on that portion you rent for "your exclusive use" such as your patio or balcony, but have to get permission to mount it anywhere else. This can also be the case in condos where most of your building is owned "in common" rather than for your exclusive use which may be just your interior space and balcony.

I also agree a calm approach is more likely to result in compromise and success. My daughter had a similar situation and solved with the HOA by hiding the dish on a pole outside her unit behind some tall shrubs with a gap for the dish to look south, but it could not be seen from the street. You may need to get creative.

Edit: Read this quote from your FCC link carefully ( bold emphasis added)



> The rule applies to antenna users who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, if the antenna user has an exclusive use area in which to install the antenna. "Exclusive use" means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. F*or example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas. The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule*. For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

> the antennas necessary to receive service


. 
But I'm sure he will want D*, D* International, E*, something on the E* wings, and maybe an FTA setup.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

marv800 said:


> ... I get sued 10+ times a year for far more serious things ...


Can't imagine why...


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

I like the shotgun idea! lol


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## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

Herdfan said:


> .
> But I'm sure he will want D*, D* International, E*, something on the E* wings, and maybe an FTA setup.


Good point !!


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

Since you have the antenna installed on the roof the HOA may have a legit argument. I used to own a condo/townhome and the roof and exterior structure of the house was the sole responsibility of the HOA. They maintained the roof and all exterior portions of the buildings. The interior and small postage stamp of a lot behind and in front of it are yours. All else belongs to the community as a whole. If you can mount the dish on a pole on your lot with a clear line of sight then you should be golden. You may not have much of a case since it's mounted on what would be considered common property (i.e., the roof). While you are definitely within your rights to install a dish, the HOA can govern where you cannot install it.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

marv800 said:


> I ^%#$ hate homeowners associations.
> 
> Bunch of losers with nothing to do in their life except to reign over the tiny sliver of authority they have in their lives.
> 
> Most of these ^%#$ jackasses have never known any semblance of power or authority in their whole life until they were elected President of the HOA, where all 3 people even voted. I'll bet most presidents of HOA's have never gotten laid from anyone other than a cheap street walking, crackhead prostitute.


If that is the attitude you have I don't wonder you have problems with your HOA. Most of the time all it takes is a little diplomacy, to resolve satellite issues with HOAs, but usually most people right off the bat fly off the handle and get on the wrong side of HOA officers, when questioned about installations. 

I am a member of our HOA board and my reason for getting involved was because when I looked at the covenants and read the original satellite antenna rule. I laughed my head off as I could see it had about 5 or 6 violations of the FCC Rules for satellite dishes. I got my ducks lined up, I got copies of the FCC rules, and compared them to the covenants and created a report and presented it to the board. They looked at it and had the HOA attorney review it. He came back with a report that the current covenants were in violation of the FCC Rules. They immediately changed them to be in compliance, and asked me to serve on the Board. The new covenant is short and sweet and to the point. We haven't had a problem since we changed it. It reads as follows:
The Federal Communications Commission has published rules which govern the right of homeowners to receive programming from direct broadcast satellites (DBS), multi-channel, multipoint distribution (wireless cable) service (MMDS) and television broadcast stations (TVBS). The Association is prohibited from the following:
(1) Restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennae to receive video programming as well as satellite dishes which are less than thirty-nine (39) inches in diameter.
(2) Restrictions that unreasonably delay or prevent, or unreasonably increase the cost of, the installation, maintenance or use of such antennae, or which preclude the reception of an acceptable quality signal.
The Association does have the right to regulate the above-described telecommunications equipment with respect to landscaping and safety. When possible, all exterior antennae or aerials shall be placed in the
rear or side yard, in such a manner as to be as unobtrusive as possible. Any matter of safety will be handled on a case by case basis by the Association.
Any homeowner who wishes to install an antenna or a satellite dish should submit a sketch showing its location relative to the home to the Architectural Control Review Committee.​
Another approach you might take also. If you feel that your board members are incompetent and not doing a good job, work at becoming a member of the board and correct the situation.

There are two kinds of HOA boards. 
1. The ones that think they have the power to control everyone and will stay awake all night trying to come up with the next crazy rule to try to enforce.
or
2. The ones that will create basic legal rules that will work to keep the property values up and keep the neighborhood decent.

I am not a control freak but after loosing thousands of dollars, on a house sale because I was trying to sell a well kept house, in a none HOA community, with the dirt bag family living in the house next door and totally trashing it with animals, junk cars and trash all over the place, I made up my mind that I would never live in another community without a HOA. So far I have been lucky, our HOA is a number 2 type from above. It is my intention to make sure it stays that way.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I formerly lived in a HOA community. The HOA maintained the exterior but the homeowner owned them (and had the right to mount a dish on the structure). Check the HOA documents, as they vary quite a bit.


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

I understand where you're coming from, but boy, you can still clean up this posting with some of the language and comments. We understand that you're frustrated, but there's no reason for some of the language.


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## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Brandon428 said:


> I like the shotgun idea! lol


:alterhase 
Don't let the HOA scare you give them a copy of the fcc rules and go buy yourself the BIGGEST OTA antenna like a radio shack VU-120 or larger and mount that near your dish.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I've never lived under a homeowners' association and I'm curious if the threatening letters and registered replies are standard practice for most HOAs. I would think that neighbors would want to be reasonably nice to each; perhaps, come over and talk things over a bit but not treat someone who wants DTV as if they've just put their car up on cinder blocks in the front yard.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

While I have never lived under a HOA (and refuse to) I think its a lot like the bad installer situation. While the bad ones are probably in the minority there are enough to give the whole group a bad name. 

The only experience I have had was second hand but it was just as bad. A friend of mine is a motocross racer and we got a box van for the races (I am the mechanic) He knew he couldnt keep it at his house all week but after 1 weekend he got the nasty letter. He explained that we prep on Saturday, sometimes until 9 or 10 and leave early Sunday morning. They said that didn't matter, when we were done Saturday we were to take it back to storage and get it again 6 hours later so it would not sit in the driveway overnight.


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## soccercoach61 (Sep 24, 2006)

I've lived with two, and they are unfortunately just about like the OP's post. (I was actually laughing through reading the entire first post because I know how he feels.)

I have a house in North MS in a very nice subdivision built around two lakes. The house is on a cove lot with not much side yard, but 100' of driveway. I had my wakeboard boat in the driveway down by the garage, out of sight until you actually got into the cove, and I got a letter from the HOA stating that I had to move the boat to the side yard, of course after I built a proper driveway and got their approval to do that, too.

Here's the kicker - standing on the front porch, I can see 7 other boats, all in their driveways, and no one else got a letter. So one Monday afternoon, I drove around the neighborhood and counted the number of boats in driveways just for sh!ts and giggles... there were 26 parked just as "illegally" as mine. But the funny thing was that two of them were owned by HOA board members, so I took out the trusty Polaroid and snapped a few photos.

There wasn't much discussion at the next HOA meeting and now the only time the boat moves is when I want to move it... What really pisses me off is that in the cove there is a Pit Bull that has attacked two dogs, killed one, and charged three neighbors, but the HOA won't lift a finger to help get it removed from the neighborhood.

My fiance and I bought a second house near Jackson, MS. During the first month, while we were trying to get moved in, the HOA here sent us a very threatening letter about filing a lien against our house if we didn't pay the HOA fees for July-Dec immediately. This was on about July 10. We hadn't even received the bill from them yet. 

So yes, unfortunately my experience has been very similar to the OP's and I'd be very inclined to agree with his opinion of them.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

shendley said:


> I've never lived under a homeowners' association and I'm curious if the threatening letters and registered replies are standard practice for most HOAs. I would think that neighbors would want to be reasonably nice to each; perhaps, come over and talk things over a bit but not treat someone who wants DTV as if they've just put their car up on cinder blocks in the front yard.


In our community there is plenty of chances for the home owner to plea his case. Here is the procedure we use. 
Step 1. We have a property maintenance company that inspects our community every two weeks for violations of the covenants.
Step 2. When the property management company finds a violation, a letter is sent to the homeowner explaining the violation.
Step 3. The homeowner is expected to reply with his answer. It may be anything from refusing to comply to he may ask for an extension to correct the problem. He is given two weeks to respond.
Step 4. If nothing is heard from him within two weeks a second notice is sent out.
Step 5. If after two weeks of the second notice, there is no reply, a notice for him to appear before a review board is sent out. The review board is made up of residents, not involved with the Board or ARC committee. They listen to his case and make a determination on the fine or corrections needed that will be implied (this committee is required by state law for any HOA to enforce any rules).
Step 6. If the home owner still refuses to comply, it is them turned over to the HOA attorney for litigation.

Since we have changed the satellite/antenna covenant, we have not had problem 1 with any dish issue. Lately we are issuing about about 3 or 4 permits a month, as our cable company keeps getting further and further behind D* or E*.


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## rekoil (Aug 10, 2007)

Another HOA president who has no problems getting laid here:

Something else to remember (I see this implied in other reponses but not stated explicitly) is that while the HOA cannot prohibit the installation of a dish on private property, they can regulate the location of the dish such that it is as inobtrusive as possible - for example, if the back side of the roof gets a signal, they can make you put it there instead of on the front yard. Most installers will keep this in mind, but not all.


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## jtrout4801 (Aug 23, 2007)

I sit on an HOA board and everyone is correct - even though our bylaws state no dishes FCC LAW OVERRIDES THIS - our lawyer told us never EVER to go near this law with a 10 foot pole. We wanted to allow them, but not on the front of the houses for asthetic reasons - they told us we could not do that because it has to be line of sight. So we all just ask if its possible to do that, if not - its not and we go on, no big deal. You tell your HOA to contact me - I will tell them what our attorney told us. If not - you can sue the pants of them for damages.


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## rekoil (Aug 10, 2007)

jtrout4801 said:


> I sit on an HOA board and everyone is correct - even though our bylaws state no dishes FCC LAW OVERRIDES THIS - our lawyer told us never EVER to go near this law with a 10 foot pole. We wanted to allow them, but not on the front of the houses for asthetic reasons - they told us we could not do that because it has to be line of sight. So we all just ask if its possible to do that, if not - its not and we go on, no big deal. You tell your HOA to contact me - I will tell them what our attorney told us. If not - you can sue the pants of them for damages.


That would only be true if it was impossible to receive a signal if the dish was in the backyard. If an owner puts it in the front, it's up to them to prove why they couldn't put it in the back - the HOA does have the right to regulate this. However, if the front yard is, in fact, the only place where there is LOS to the birds, then the HOA must allow this.

In our townhome complex we handled it by declaring that all dishes must go on the unit's roof (we're in the city, so there's no LOS issues from any roof) and that cabling must be run from the dish into the unit's attic, not outside the structure. So far that's served us well.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Here's the test.
If the roof leaks, and the HOA is obligated to fix it, they have to right to prohibit drilling into it. It's non-exclusive common property.

If the roof leaks, and YOU are required to personally pay, it's your property and you can drill into it and put up the dish.

That's how you know if you can put the dish there or not and whether OTARD applies or not. 

Good Luck


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## smimi10 (May 22, 2006)

rekoil said:


> Another HOA president who has no problems getting laid here:
> 
> Something else to remember (I see this implied in other reponses but not stated explicitly) is that while the HOA cannot prohibit the installation of a dish on private property, they can regulate the location of the dish such that it is as inobtrusive as possible - for example, if the back side of the roof gets a signal, they can make you put it there instead of on the front yard. Most installers will keep this in mind, but not all.


Is there any relief offered if the cost of putting the dish on the back side of the roof would be unreasonably high?

Meaning that if doing so would require more than "standard installation".

An example would be my house, which faces South, and is two-story with a steeply pitched roof. Both installers that visited my house for installations would not go up on the roof.

However, I do know of a third-party installer that claims that they will put a dish anywhere. Of course, the cost could be considerable if it meant running quite a lot of cable.

I'm just curious how most sane HOA boards (which yours appears to be) would handle something like that.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

Why is a reasonably sized satellite dish on the front of your house aesthetically displeasing? This is one of the things which really make me suspicious of HOAs(and, again, I've never lived under any): regulating aesthetic issues. It's one thing to have the city tell someone to mow their lawn so snakes won't start slithering into the neighborhood, or an HOA to tell someone to move the 2 or 3 cars on cinder blocks they've been working on for years to the backyard where they can't be seen because most folk can agree that this constitutes a rather obvious eyesore in a community which can bring down property values. But a dish is not, by a long shot, an eyesore. It's a functional part of your home that you install where it can best work for you. Getting into regulating aesthetics reminds me of a great X-Files episode involving a gated community that has a bookload of "covenants" about what you can and cannot place on or around your home (Mulder freaks everyone out when he brings out a basketball hoop to his front driveway) and persistent violators are penalized by a monster conjured out of garbage which kills them!



jtrout4801 said:


> We wanted to allow them, but not on the front of the houses for asthetic reasons


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

NR4P said:


> Here's the test.
> If the roof leaks, and the HOA is obligated to fix it, they have to right to prohibit drilling into it. It's non-exclusive common property.
> 
> If the roof leaks, and YOU are required to personally pay, it's your property and you can drill into it and put up the dish.
> ...


You would think that to be the case, but it's not necessarily.

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1998/da981170.txt

There is a ruling by the FCC for a homeowner who wanted to put a dish on his chimney. The HOA said "We are obligated to maintain/repair the chimney and so you cannot put it there".

The FCC ruled that the chimney was clearly the exclusive use of the tenant and that they could not prohibit his dish from being installed there. They can request that it be removed when repairs are to take place, but they cannot prohibit the dish. Whether they would take the same approach with the roof, I do not know, but it would seem that in cases where the roof is "your roof", they would consider that exclusive use. This would not apply in an instance where it's a condo/apartment style building and the roof is "everyone's" roof....

Quoted from the ruling:
"...10. We reject the Association's argument that the Rule does not apply in this instance because the Association has responsibility for repairs, replacements and maintenance of the exterior of Lourie's townhouse and of the chimney surface where the antenna would be mounted. The fact that the Association has responsibility for the repairs, replacements and maintenance of the exterior of Lourie's townhouse where the antenna would be mounted is not controlling in the circumstance presented here. Lourie is the owner with exclusive use of the townhouse, including its chimney. As the exclusive user of the chimney, Lourie's use of his dish clearly falls within the ambit of the Rule...."

There is a similar ruling in a case where the homeowner placed the dish on the wall of his home. The first story patio door had an awning above it, and he mounted the dish above the awning but below the 2nd story windows. The HOA contended that since they were responsible for the repair of the exterior walls that this was an inappropriate place to mount the dish. The FCC ruled that the wall above his patio was clearly within his exclusive use and the dish could stay. The HOA can request it be taken down during repairs, but it can be reinstalled when repairs are finished.


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## rekoil (Aug 10, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> There is a ruling by the FCC for a homeowner who wanted to put a dish on his chimney. The HOA said "We are obligated to maintain/repair the chimney and so you cannot put it there". The FCC ruled that the chimney was clearly the exclusive use of the tenant and that they could not prohibit his dish from being installed there.


Yep, that's the rule we went by - the HOA maintains each roof, but since each unit has exclusive ownership of their roof, we couldn't prohibit dishes there even if we wanted to (and we don't). We do disclaim liability for any leaks or other roof damage resulting from a dish install, however.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

shendley said:


> But a dish is not, by a long shot, an eyesore.


That unfortunately becomes an opinion, some will say it is an eyesore, others like yourself feel it is not. Usually the dish owners are not bothered by it and the people that prefer getting their TV via analog cable, see it as an eye sore. That is why any HOA that wants to follow the FCC Ruling will just state, to put the dish in the rear of the house, unless you can't get a good signal there, then the front is acceptable.

If one lives in a HOA community, have a site review done, prior to your installation, and the results of it will tell you where your dish can be placed, to receive all of the signals. That should be enough documentation if you have to justify it being mounted on the front of the house.


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## Noresults (Aug 25, 2007)

The solution is obviious.

Its Comcastic.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The test is really simple. Read the HoA documents and your deed. They will state who owns what. Just because someone is obligated to repair something doesn't give them property rights. The FCC decision will only protect the homeowner's right to put a satellite dish on his/her property.

If you don't understand the documents then get a lawyer to review them and explain them.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I guess my point is that in a society which values diversity and tolerance, we need to have a pretty darn good reason for judging something to be an eyesore and regulating it with any form of political power - and, as far as I can see, HOAs are a private form of government; very limited in their power, of course, but they still wield a form of power. Unless a real case can be made that having sat dishes on the front of one's house will lower property values, I think no HOA has any business regulating it - otherwise, they're just regulating aesthetics. Again, my point is that HOAs do have a legitimate interest regulating things that have to do with property values or instituting things (like common spaces) that could raise property values. But regulating aesthetics is just one group of people with one set of tastes lording it over another because they can, in my opinion. And since, from what I've been reading, this is precisely the sort of thing that HOAs seem to love to do, I'm real glad I'm not subject to the authority of one.



loudo said:


> That unfortunately becomes an opinion, some will say it is an eyesore, others like yourself feel it is not. Usually the dish owners are not bothered by it and the people that prefer getting their TV via analog cable, see it as an eye sore. That is why any HOA that wants to follow the FCC Ruling will just state, to put the dish in the rear of the house, unless you can't get a good signal there, then the front is acceptable.
> 
> If one lives in a HOA community, have a site review done, prior to your installation, and the results of it will tell you where your dish can be placed, to receive all of the signals. That should be enough documentation if you have to justify it being mounted on the front of the house.


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

The question goes to the type of ownership. In a condo, you don't actually own the walls, just the paint on them and the airspace inside. In condo situations, you can't install on exterior walls, roofs, etc. Now, if your ownership is a townhouse, you can do the install as you own the walls, roof, etc. So the question goes to what type of ownership you are in.

If you are in a condo, you will need a certain % of homeowner members agreeing to a by-law change allowing dishes on the roof. I doubt you will have much luck here as it will be tough to get enough people to care.

To a previous posters comment, I too was president of a HOA for a townhome community I lived in and owned. People serve those positions because they, for the most part, have a genuine interest in keeping their communities up to a certain standard. They also get laid plenty.

If you want unlimited options, by a house. Yes, its more expensive but to get to do whatever you want. If I want to put a 15 ft diameter dish in my yard, I can.


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## JFHughes08088 (Mar 24, 2007)

...and...WTF, Marv800 posts and drops off the face of the earth?


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## STEVED21 (Feb 6, 2006)

JFHughes08088 said:


> ...and...WTF, Marv800 posts and drops off the face of the earth?


Sue him:lol:


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

JFHughes08088 said:


> ...and...WTF, Marv800 posts and drops off the face of the earth?


He may have been expecting more of us to jump into his obsenity filled rage and send our own letters of hate to his HOA president.?.?

That, or he's just busy and will likely check back tomorrow...


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

He's probably cleaning up his last posting. That could take a few days. There's just no reason for throwing a posting out there like that.


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## alren98 (Oct 1, 2007)

marv800,

Frustrated, eh? I have a good for you. I've had my DirecTV service for almost a year and a couple of days ago I received a letter from my HOA requesting the approval of the board to have a dish installed. I've had it for a year. At the time of install I did ask the installer if another location would work but the location he picked provided the best signal and it was unobstructed. One of my neighbors is a board member and congratulated me for getting DirecTv and said nothing about getting approval from the board. 

And what's even funnier is that another neighbor across the street (he moved in a couple of months ago) replaced an existing dish (from the previous owner) with his DirecTV dish. He too got a letter from the HOA. 

In comparison my letter was a simple application for the board's approval for the install. I didn't receive threats to have my dish removed or else. It does sound like a person with too much time on his hands. I'm learning that associations can be very difficult to deal with and it seems like the board members are "power hungry" people.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

alren98 said:


> marv800,
> 
> Frustrated, eh? I have a good for you. I've had my DirecTV service for almost a year and a couple of days ago I received a letter from my HOA requesting the approval of the board to have a dish installed. I've had it for a year. At the time of install I did ask the installer if another location would work but the location he picked provided the best signal and it was unobstructed. One of my neighbors is a board member and congratulated me for getting DirecTv and said nothing about getting approval from the board.
> 
> ...


In reality, the board can request you to fill out an application to put up the dish. They can also set standards with regards to safety and landscaping. They may also suggest that dishes be mounted on the rear of the house, *WHEN POSSIBLE*. They can't refuse you permission from having one though. I know in our community we require the forms to be filled out showing the location it will be located on the house. If it is on the front, we ask for proof from the installer that it has to be there. If we get the letter stating it is necessary to be there, no problem, it gets rubber stamped.

Not all board members are "Power Hungry", a few may be, but you have to remember, once a person is allowed to get away with something, it sets a president. Then, it is hard to correct the situation the next time it occurs.


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## tvl76 (Dec 7, 2006)

loudo said:


> Another approach you might take also. If you feel that your board members are incompetent and not doing a good job, work at becoming a member of the board and correct the situation.
> 
> There are two kinds of HOA boards.
> 1. The ones that think they have the power to control everyone and will stay awake all night trying to come up with the next crazy rule to try to enforce.
> ...


x2

You could offer to paint it to blend in with your roof color


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## alren98 (Oct 1, 2007)

I used that term because there is one FORMER board member who walks the neighborhood and informs the board of violations. There used to be a president who stopped me on the street to tell me that my dog wasn't allowed to take a crap on the grass and if it did I need plastic bags to pick up after it. I did have bags because I pick up after my dogs. She rolled up her window and left. Or telling me I can't have my SeaDoo's in my garage. One neighbor was told to remove his firewood from the patio even though it was on a rack and covered. Others with plants in pots near the front gate were told to remove them. Yet there are other board members who are more lenient (or compassionate) with the "changing times". Maybe the rules (CC&R's) need to be updated as the community changes (Or I can move).

I guess I could go on but this is a forum for satellite issues.


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## fwlogue (Dec 6, 2006)

loudo said:


> In reality, the board can request you to fill out an application to put up the dish. They can also set standards with regards to safety and landscaping. They may also suggest that dishes be mounted on the rear of the house, *WHEN POSSIBLE*. They can't refuse you permission from having one though. I know in our community we require the forms to be filled out showing the location it will be located on the house. If it is on the front, we ask for proof from the installer that it has to be there. If we get the letter stating it is necessary to be there, no problem, it gets rubber stamped.
> 
> Not all board members are "Power Hungry", a few may be, but you have to remember, once a person is allowed to get away with something, it sets a president. Then, it is hard to correct the situation the next time it occurs.


You have to be careful on asking for written permission.

From FCC QUESTION AND ANSWER

Q: What types of restrictions unreasonably delay or prevent viewers from using an antenna? Can an antenna user be required to obtain prior approval before installing his antenna?

A: A local restriction that prohibits all antennas would prevent viewers from receiving signals, and is prohibited by the Commission's rule. Procedural requirements can also unreasonably delay installation, maintenance or use of an antenna covered by this rule. *For example, local regulations that require a person to obtain a permit or approval prior to installation create unreasonable delay and are generally prohibited. *Permits or prior approval necessary to serve a legitimate safety or historic preservation purpose may be permissible. Although a simple notification process might be permissible, such a process cannot be used as a prior approval requirement and may not delay or increase the cost of installation. The burden is on the association to show that a notification process does not violate our rule.


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## flyingtigerfan (Feb 16, 2005)

I've seen most of the responses in here, and so here's my 0.02 based on being a real estate developer and builder who has set up a few HOAs. I'm also a DirecTV subscriber who had to deal with the HOA that I just moved from and the HOA that I just moved into.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with an HOA, or perhaps just one person involved in the HOA of that nature. I've met them before, and they are typically retired or otherwise unemployed people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to make yours miserable. A couple of comments:

Just use some common sense and diplomacy even if they do not. There is likely language in your covenants that permits the HOA to do exactly what they have threatened to do. If you attempt to stop them with any force whatsoever (and I think you were joking) you're going to be the one in the wrong, even if they are too.

I'd send them a letter requesting a meeting with the board, or architectural control committee, or whoever prior to them taking any action. As a matter of fact, see if there is anything in the covenants that specifically calls for you to have a hearing before they do anything.

In this way, you might find out that it's just one jerk who's bored and the rest of them might not feel that way. I'd send them a copy of the FCC regulation, and ask them to tell you why they believe they have the right to force you to remove your dish. Do it politely. Keep copies.

The main thing you want to be 100% sure of is that you are legally in the right before you do something you'll regret later. They need to be sure of the same thing, if they're smart. Remember, you are a PART of the HOA. Be sure you understand what OTARD says, or have an attorney discuss it with you. It's never as black and white as you want it to be, and it sure isn't as black and white as what those letters from the HOA say it is, unless you put the dish on undeniably common property.

You always hear horror stories about HOAs, but the truth of the matter is that most of them do their jobs with a minimum of fuss and with no thanks whatsoever. As with everything else, it's 10% of the people (or HOAs) that create 90% of the problems.


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## tvl76 (Dec 7, 2006)

alren98 said:


> I guess I could go on but this is a forum for satellite issues.


But as this pertains to satellite issues, paint the dish to match or camo with the surroundings and attend the next board meeting to present your case before the members and the HOA. Like it or not, you are paying good money to the HOA. The board members are your neighbors, working for free. They are their to help maintain your community.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

Guess they hauled him off to jail, no update yet.


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## txtommy (Dec 30, 2006)

Skooz said:


> Please please please keep us updated.
> 
> I like nothing better than to hear of these pompous, self-important, whiny, little tin horn dictators getting a little of what they so gleefully give.
> 
> Why anyone would subject themselves to one of these politburos is a mystery to me.


Please take your comments about President Bush to a political forum. We are discussing HOA's here.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

marv,
Speaking only for myself, I think your initial post may violate the site rules. Sure - you redacted the "7 words", but your post is probably not good reading for a youngster.


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## Clato (Aug 30, 2007)

marv,Basically, they tell me that my shiny new dish is in violation of my HOA regulations and that I have 14 days to remove it, they will exercise their right to come onto my property and remove the dish, and subsequently charge me for the expense. I was stunned... How can they do this? I understand that it may be unsightly for some jackass that has nothing better to do than drive around, looking at people's roofs, but this is insane. 
=======================================
first of all i want to see that dam robot-(shown on tv) climb a ladder and knock my dish off, i got a good friend I want him to meet,*RObOT meet Smith & Wesson*,lol, and i like that pict also thats funny,
but you know what I was told same thing, fine, *I'll fix your butts, took it down now my BIGGER DISH is mounted in my backyard, (cannot be seen from front or sides) no more problem*,other then show my contemp & hatred for the HOA,because a numvh of homeowners want to tell everyone else how to live.

clato


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## tvl76 (Dec 7, 2006)

Clato said:


> ...other then show my contemp & hatred for the HOA,because a numvh of homeowners want to tell everyone else how to live. clato


If more homeowners in your community feel the same way as you do, then you all need to attend the next meeting, offer to serve on the board and get the "Hitlers" voted out. You pay your dues to have that right.


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