# Funny D* HD Ad



## emathis (Mar 19, 2003)

D* spent a lot of money in todays (10/19) USA Today promoting their lead in HD channels, but one of the ads seems funny to me. The top of the ad says "not all hd channels are created equal" and then they list all the VOOM channels on the left under the heading "channels you never heard of" and then on the right they list the few HD channels that they have that E* doesn't under the heading "the channels you live for". What they, of course, fail to mention is that the list on the left is all HD all the time, while the list on the right is hardly ever in real HD most of the time. So they are right NOT ALL HD CHANNELS ARE CREATED EQUAL.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

emathis said:


> D* spent a lot of money in todays (10/19) USA Today promoting their lead in HD channels, but one of the ads seems funny to me. The top of the ad says "not all hd channels are created equal" and then they list all the VOOM channels on the left under the heading "channels you never heard of" and then on the right they list the few HD channels that they have that E* doesn't under the heading "the channels you live for". What they, of course, fail to mention is that the list on the left is all HD all the time, while the list on the right is hardly ever in real HD most of the time. So they are right NOT ALL HD CHANNELS ARE CREATED EQUAL.


The ad is funny but effective!


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

I'll take shows I want to watch in upconverted SD over shows I could care less about repeated over and over again in HD any day.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I'll take shows I want to watch in upconverted SD over shows I could care less about repeated over and over again in HD any day.


Go to the Direct TV site you will see this same Ad


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

You mean this particular comparison...

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380126

Guess I'll just frown a bit when watching Stargate Atlantis in HD, because I can't watch something for the nTH time on VOOM Monster channel.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

well the ad lies to say the least (on the D* site)

"Not even close" -what about NHL, etc etc?

Also they only list the voom channels

Lastly, HD locals are included if you subscribe to regular locals


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Sirshagg said:


> I'll take shows I want to watch in upconverted SD over shows I could care less about repeated over and over again in HD any day.


You must not have been at all excited about TWC or CNN in HD.

How's the repeat frequency on Smithsonian? I'm betting it isn't nearly as bad as they said it was going to be.


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Competition is good for all. I know that's been said, but it bears repeating.

IMO, DirecTV _is _being a bit cocky, and it may bite them in the butt.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bairdjc said:


> "Not even close" -what about NHL, etc etc?


Given that NHL was only added.... yesterday.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Taco Lover said:


> IMO, DirecTV _is _being a bit cocky, and it may bite them in the butt.


And DishNetwork... hasn't been?


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And DishNetwork... hasn't been?


Honestly, I haven't paid that close attention, but do you have examples? Phrases like "channels you've never heard of" and "not even close" are a bit over the top.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Badger said:


> The ad is funny but effective!


Lies often are.



Taco Lover said:


> IMO, DirecTV _is _being a bit cocky, and it may bite them in the butt.


We can only hope.



Earl Bonovich said:


> And DishNetwork... hasn't been?


And, if they were, that would give license to DirecTV to be as bad/worse?

The companies will be judged for their own actions. I wish ONE of them would come up with promotions I could support. Why does it seem to be a contest between which company can tell the biggest lies?


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## zlensman (Jan 15, 2006)

Those ads for Apple computers are clever, too. "Hi, I'm a Mac...", "and I'm a PC". I get a good laugh from them, but I don't toss out my PC and buy a Mac.

We all know what advertisers are about and that they will push the boundaries right up to what is legal -- play fast and loose with facts, spin those facts, compare apples and oranges, exaggerate, and so on. Even companies you like will stoop to dirty ad techniques.

To me, the worst offense in this ad is saying DirecTV has 70 National HD channels and Dish only 39. There have been enough threads about counting channels (let's not go there again), but clearly this is an apples/oranges comparison.

Nothing illegal in there, but do you believe everything advertisers tell you? Do you believe anything they tell you, without verifying it for yourself?


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

harsh said:


> You must not have been at all excited about TWC or CNN in HD.
> 
> How's the repeat frequency on Smithsonian? I'm betting it isn't nearly as bad as they said it was going to be.


Could care less about TWC or CNN. Really like the 5 channels of HD starz and addl HD Showtime as well as USA, SciFi, and FX. There is now only one channel I ever watch NOT in HD (comedy central). I'm loving it.

But honestly, I hope E* gets tons more HD too - it will just keep pushing content providers to supply more HD and in the end everyone wins.


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## koji68 (Jun 21, 2004)

zlensman said:


> We all know what advertisers are about and that they will push the boundaries right up to what is legal -- play fast and loose with facts, spin those facts, compare apples and oranges, exaggerate, and so on. Even companies you like will stoop to dirty ad techniques.


Yeas, like Listerine. "It kills the germs that cause bad breath." Have you ever noticed that it doesn't say "It stops bad breath?" Because it doesn't. They just let you imply that killing the germs will stop the bad breath. :lol:

The other ad from D* that I like is the one where a big satellite with the HD channels on it comes into "orbit" and knocks the Dishnetwork sats down.


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## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

I have the HD package using my Vip 622 and I pay for my locals, but I don't get them in HD, so I guess D* is right on that one.



bairdjc said:


> well the ad lies to say the least (on the D* site)
> 
> "Not even close" -what about NHL, etc etc?
> 
> ...


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You mean this particular comparison...
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380126
> 
> Guess I'll just frown a bit when watching Stargate Atlantis in HD, because I can't watch something for the nTH time on VOOM Monster channel.


Ditto


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> Lies often are.
> 
> We can only hope.
> 
> ...


James Ditto

I wish that Dish becomes the company it was six years ago.

Honest and with the Customer always in mind not like today.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

tomcrown1 said:


> James Ditto
> 
> I wish that Dish becomes the company it was six years ago.
> 
> Honest and with the Customer always in mind not like today.


they would have to communicate with customers first...instead we get "I dunno" from CSR's


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

How funny D* is suing cox for false advertising.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> they would have to communicate with customers first...instead we get "I dunno" from CSR's


I don't know may be the most _accurate_ answer a CSR can give.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> I don't know may be the most _accurate_ answer a CSR can give.


well yeah I know...thats my point...E* isn't giving any useful info out at all...not even preparing their CSR's about upcoming releases...i read on engadget that we were getting new channels in Sept. I called E* to make sure it was true...CSR had no idea....he looked up on the web and said...oh...I see it now...yes they should be released on those dates....lol


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

I totally get the point of the ad. VOOM failed as a stand alone because there was nothing there. If a company wanted to have a high channel count at a low price, then a content free no-charge deal like VOOM would be ideal. If a company wanted to serve the customer, then HD versions of channels people know and which has the programming they are familiar with would be.

Pretty much the difference between the two services. From day one.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Yeah...i can too...more people are going to respond more to national channels with acclaimed shows then to treasure HD, monster HD, or equator HD...although Godzilla in HD is pretty damn cool...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I foresee a whole new CATV campaign on "rain fade" as a result of the new D* Ka satellites and hope that E* doesn't get caught up in the excrement.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

SamC said:


> I totally get the point of the ad. VOOM failed as a stand alone because there was nothing there. If a company wanted to have a high channel count at a low price, then a content free no-charge deal like VOOM would be ideal. If a company wanted to serve the customer, then HD versions of channels people know and which has the programming they are familiar with would be.
> 
> Pretty much the difference between the two services. From day one.


VOOM didn't fail due to lack of content. It had all the Movie channels that we are wanting now. Everything that was available in HD was on VOOM. The reason it failed was there were too few that had HD. Rainbow Media (Cablevision) the owner of VOOM wasn't willing to continue to loose money to build up a clientèle over several years. This is when they sold out the assets to E* and reorganized to a Media provider only. I was a very happy HD customer with them thill they pulled the plug. In addition to the HD channels they also had about 150 SD channels as well. The owner of Cablevision was willing to wait it out but his board of directors and investors was not. They out voted him and that was the end of VOOM as a sat company competing w/ D* & E*. One last thing is the coverage of 61.5 was not really that great for a national provider. It was very hard for the West Coast to pickup the bird.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

bairdjc said:


> well the ad lies to say the least (on the D* site)
> 
> "Not even close" -what about NHL, etc etc?
> 
> ...


whats after the NHL? ect ect arent channels....


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> Lies often are.
> 
> We can only hope.
> 
> ...


what was the lie?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

has anyone noticed if E* is still broadcasting commercials claiming to be the leader in HD? i haven't seen any lately and wondered if they pulled them.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

msmith198025 said:


> what was the lie?


In part, that the channels listed are the ones *I* live for ...
D* can't tell me what to live for. They also started this whole campaign of counting unavailable channels and are claiming "over 70" channels delivered.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> In part, that the channels listed are the ones *I* live for ...
> D* can't tell me what to live for. They also started this whole campaign of counting unavailable channels and are claiming "over 70" channels delivered.


I took that as the channels that are in high demand for HD...sci fi...FX...usa...ect. So maybe the "you" is referring to the majority of HD customers?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That still doesn't account for the constant inflation.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> has anyone noticed if E* is still broadcasting commercials claiming to be the leader in HD? i haven't seen any lately and wondered if they pulled them.


In some sense the statement may be accurate; especially if contemplated on hours of HD source delivered. Several of D*'s recent claims have been struck down in a court of law.

My favorite had to be the ads built around a survey of professional home theater installers.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> In some sense the statement may be accurate; especially if contemplated on hours of HD source delivered. Several of D*'s recent claims have been struck down in a court of law.
> 
> My favorite had to be the ads built around a survey of professional home theater installers.


they are suing cox for false advertising for claiming to be the leader in HD clarity...lol:



> DirecTV has filed a false advertising suit against Cox Communications over claims made on the Cox website. It all goes back to a Comcast-commissioned market survey (also under suit) which concluded that two thirds of satellite customers preferred the HD image quality of Comcast over DirecTV and Dish Network. Cox ran with the story, and put the results under the headline "Cable Wins the HD Picture Challenge" on the company's website. We agree with DirecTV -- that's a huge logical misstep. DirecTV sums it up nicely in their complaint: "...the picture quality afforded by Comcast's HD service cannot be deemed equivalent to that of Cox's HD service." Check out the link for more "he said, she said" action. We understand that DirecTV has to defend itself, and that lawsuits are part of big business, but we also think continuing to pump out more HD channels will have a far larger impact in the marketplace.


one thing they DO get right though...and they emphasize it...is more national channels.... i think if you take out the sport tiers....the biggest thing HD folks will look for is who has the most watched/national channels with popular shows on .


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> In part, that the channels listed are the ones *I* live for ...
> D* can't tell me what to live for. They also started this whole campaign of counting unavailable channels and are claiming "over 70" channels delivered.


Ill agree with the channel count. thats bull on both sides. We have talked about. I guess depending on how broad your definition of a channel is that could or could not be considered false. But james i doubt very seriously that they were talking about about u personally when the said that about channels i live for....lol. Its a catchy saying meant to imply most want those channels over voom. Thats generally correct.


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## WilliamC (Jun 18, 2006)

emathis said:


> D* spent a lot of money in todays (10/19) USA Today promoting their lead in HD channels, but one of the ads seems funny to me. The top of the ad says "not all hd channels are created equal" and then they list all the VOOM channels on the left under the heading "channels you never heard of" and then on the right they list the few HD channels that they have that E* doesn't under the heading "the channels you live for". What they, of course, fail to mention is that the list on the left is all HD all the time, while the list on the right is hardly ever in real HD most of the time. So they are right NOT ALL HD CHANNELS ARE CREATED EQUAL.


True, but you fail to take into account how much of Voom a person actually watches VS how much of those "other channels" they would watch. Also SD on an HD feed looks a lot better than standard dish or directv sd.


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## WilliamC (Jun 18, 2006)

James Long said:


> Why does it seem to be a contest between which company can tell the biggest lies?


Simple answer because their main concern is $$$$! They'll do whatever will put more money in their pockets. Such as downrezzing channels and allowing them to look horrible. That goes for both sides in case anyone tries to make this a HD-Lite E* vs D* debate. Both are equally bad IMHO.

The add may be poorly worded and over the top but so is E*. I called dish the other day to get the date of my billing cycle because I am possibly considering canceling my service and was asked why. I responded and the rep preceded to tell me that if I chose to waste my time canceling I will still return in 6 months so they never would lose my business. Needless to say my response was along the lines of: "last time I checked you weren't anybody so don't forget you have to right to tell me what my actions will or won't be" This type of behavior is one of the reasons aside from poor HD on D*, why I left them.

So if blame is to be placed both companies are very shady in their dealings. In this day and age an honest provider is non-existent.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

WilliamC said:


> Simple answer because their main concern is $$$$! They'll do whatever will put more money in their pockets. Such as downrezzing channels and allowing them to look horrible. That goes for both sides in case anyone tries to make this a HD-Lite E* vs D* debate. Both are equally bad IMHO.
> 
> The add may be poorly worded and over the top but so is E*. I called dish the other day to get the date of my billing cycle because I am possibly considering canceling my service and was asked why. I responded and the rep preceded to tell me that if I chose to waste my time canceling I will still return in 6 months so they never would lose my business. Needless to say my response was along the lines of: "last time I checked you weren't anybody so don't forget you have to right to tell me what my actions will or won't be" This type of behavior is one of the reasons aside from poor HD on D*, why I left them.
> 
> So if blame is to be placed both companies are very shady in their dealings. In this day and age an honest provider is non-existent.


I got the same kind of response when i was considering leaving E*...except she tried to tell me that D* really did have the new channels in HD because they dont exist in HD...even though..i had just watched them t my friends...in HD


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

BTW...when i was looking at the E* packages just now...they STILL have "THE LEADER IN HD" on their website....better be careful..D* is sue happy over that lately...lol


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## WilliamC (Jun 18, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> I got the same kind of response when i was considering leaving E*...except she tried to tell me that D* really did have the new channels in HD because they dont exist in HD...even though..i had just watched them t my friends...in HD


I can one up that one. The next rep said D* may have those channels and say HD but the content isn't always in HD where as those same channels on Dish are always HD. I attempted to explain she was wrong and they said my dish must be setup wrong and want to send a tech over.

Honestly responses like this make me want to switch and continue the cycle of jumping back and forth to who has the better PQ and lineup.

Quick question since you saw them at your friends house and this obviously is objective, but was the PQ on D* Mpeg-4 better than E*? I find most of the HD on E* now is too soft. Especially StarzHD


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

lol...if it wasn't for contracts i probably would be doing it...E* also still has "THE LEADER IN HD" up on the site.......charlie better come up with something to back that up


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

WilliamC said:


> True, but you fail to take into account how much of Voom a person actually watches VS how much of those "other channels" they would watch. Also SD on an HD feed looks a lot better than standard dish or directv sd.


I don't watch the SD version of those "other channels" now and probably won't even with the designation of HD in the channel name. It may look better but, SD is still SD and shouldn't be represented as HD, because it isn't.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

richiephx said:


> I don't watch the SD version of those "other channels" now and probably won't even with the designation of HD in the channel name. It may look better but, SD is still SD and shouldn't be represented as HD, because it isn't.


I have seen the "other channels" in "HD"..and the shows that are done in HD are in HD..and look good...and the non HD shows are not put in "full screen"....as far as SD being SD....sorry...there is a difference between "HD lite" and good old SD...not talking awesome HD quality or anything...but yeah...it's clearer.


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## WilliamC (Jun 18, 2006)

richiephx said:


> I don't watch the SD version of those "other channels" now and probably won't even with the designation of HD in the channel name. It may look better but, SD is still SD and shouldn't be represented as HD, because it isn't.


If you go by that logic then, once again both providers are at fault. A&E, TNT, TBS, Science channel, Animal Planet, and so on don't show HD content all the time and by what you are saying should not be counted as HD. If so, then both providers need to adjust their HD channel count according to you.

I'll actually take your comments even further, none of the HD-Lite channels should be labeled HD then.

*texaswolf*: Thankfully i went into Dish without a contract so I can jump around. :-D


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

WilliamC said:


> If you go by that logic then, once again both providers are at fault. A&E, TNT, TBS, Science channel, Animal Planet, and so on don't show HD content all the time and by what you are saying should not be counted as HD. If so, then both providers need to adjust their HD channel count according to you.
> 
> I'll actually take your comments even further, none of the HD-Lite channels should be labeled HD then.
> 
> *texaswolf*: Thankfully i went into Dish without a contract so I can jump around. :-D


nice, i didn't think they did that anymore

and yeah..i can look at science channel in "HD lite" and then the SD version....its not a hard choice to make which looks better....lol


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> lol...if it wasn't for contracts i probably would be doing it...E* also still has "THE LEADER IN HD" up on the site.......charlie better come up with something to back that up


Charlie led, D* followed. Simple, eh?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

And NOW D* leads, and Charlie won't be catching up anytime soon either. But, that's the way it goes I guess.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> And NOW D* leads, and Charlie won't be catching up anytime soon either. But, that's the way it goes I guess.


Charlie...is that you??? How would you know? I guess E* will never add to their programming, huh. Real intelligent statement...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Now now, be nice.

BTW: E*'s last two additions, NBA TV HD and NHL Network HD still need to be picked up by D*.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Charlie led, D* followed. Simple, eh?


Yep...quick out of the gate...but it looks like in the backstretch D* has delivered and pulled ahead, and with supposedly it's other sat launching maybe streching it's lead, while we hear no word from the E* horse...come on Charlie horse! Get Up! :beatdeadhorse: YOU CAN DO IT!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Now now, be nice.
> 
> BTW: E*'s last two additions, NBA TV HD and NHL Network HD still need to be picked up by D*.


didn't they snag MLB from us?


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

Sorry, just tired of people losing their minds (and jumping the gun) over E* FINALLY being behind for about a month. They've been SOOOO far ahead for SOOOO long and no one wants to give them the benefit of the doubt.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> Sorry, just tired of people losing their minds (and jumping the gun) over E* FINALLY being behind for about a month. They've been SOOOO far ahead for SOOOO long and no one wants to give them the benefit of the doubt.


Actually..it's been a few months since D* was blabbing about launching new channels while we all laughed about it because those channels weren't in HD (so E* tells us)....well...guess what...they delivered...so we all thought.."well E* will get them too...right E*?:new_sleep

So I'm tired of all the excuses of it only being a month, when they knew it was coming for months...I would think "negotiations" would have been *well* under way. I would say talk is cheap...but thats the problem E* doesn't talk to its customers...and that is where people are "losing their minds".


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

Actually, it's NOT been a couple of months for all of it. All the negativity in here makes me a little sad...:eek2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Actually..it's been a few months since D* was blabbing about launching new channels while we all laughed about it because those channels weren't in HD (so E* tells us)....well...guess what...they delivered...so we all thought.."well E* will get them too...right E*?


D* delivered ... but WHAT they delivered is somewhat in question. Many of the channels have a high level of upconvert content and practically non-existent level of HD.

Assuming the movie channels are not upconverts I'd like to see those added. There are a few popular shows on Sci-Fi that people have been asking for. But when D* adds "Speed HD" and the network itself says "we'll be in HD next year" one has to wonder how fast and loose D* is playing.

In general E* subscribers are happy ... some have shown a bit of curiosity as to why E* has not added all the new channels. The same curiosity I have that D* is not airing NBA TV and NHL Network in HD (or the alternate Big 10 games).


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## WilliamC (Jun 18, 2006)

James Long said:


> D* delivered ... but WHAT they delivered is somewhat in question. Many of the channels have a high level of upconvert content and practically non-existent level of HD.


...and how many channels does E* have like that? If you want call out D* because the channels don't have enough "true HD" then also call out E* for doing the same. Personally I wouldn't call out either because the ones who determine the amount they broadcast in HD are the channels themselves not the providers.

I'd much rather call out E* for their decrease in PQ over the course of the last few months. It may say HD but it sure don't look like it. When did E* become the new D*?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> Actually, it's NOT been a couple of months for all of it. All the negativity in here makes me a little sad...:eek2:


They have been hyping the release of New HD channels for months......

They released 47 with in the last month...later than they said they would....but they still did...and they say more are coming...this time I believe them.

the negativity, is probably because a lot of us have been waiting for a lot of those channels in HD (or at least better than SD)...and now the other side has them while we sit.....and wait


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

Yes and a good percentage of the ones they added have been available to me for some time now, so keep your chin up. Sheesh! Be patient. Good things come to those who wait. I'll take what I'm currently getting in content as long as my hardware is that far superior to the competition. We will get the content soon enough...MARK IT DOWN!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> D* delivered ... but WHAT they delivered is somewhat in question. Many of the channels have a high level of upconvert content and practically non-existent level of HD.
> 
> Assuming the movie channels are not upconverts I'd like to see those added. There are a few popular shows on Sci-Fi that people have been asking for. But when D* adds "Speed HD" and the network itself says "we'll be in HD next year" one has to wonder how fast and loose D* is playing.
> 
> In general E* subscribers are happy ... some have shown a bit of curiosity as to why E* has not added all the new channels. The same curiosity I have that D* is not airing NBA TV and NHL Network in HD (or the alternate Big 10 games).


both companies have channels like that James...

And yes Sci FI has shows people are asking for...so does FX

I think CNN is a pretty popular channel...they may like that in HD too...CNBC would be great in HD for business watchers...or Fox business (which we can't even get in SD)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> the negativity, is probably because a lot of us have been waiting for a lot of those channels in HD


The negativity is because angry people tend to be noisier than contented people.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

WilliamC said:


> ...and how many channels does E* have like that? If you want call out D* because the channels don't have enough "true HD" then also call out E* for doing the same. Personally I wouldn't call out either because the ones who determine the amount they broadcast in HD are the channels themselves not the providers.
> 
> I'd much rather call out E* for their decrease in PQ over the course of the last few months. It may say HD but it sure don't look like it. When did E* become the new D*?


DITTO

Repeat I wish Dish would do business as it did six years ago


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

klegg said:


> Yes and a good percentage of the ones they added have been available to me for some time now, so keep your chin up. Sheesh! Be patient.  Good things come to those who wait. I'll take what I'm currently getting in content as long as my hardware is that far superior to the competition. We will get the content soon enough...MARK IT DOWN!


lol...yeah thats true...i would rather have my Treasure HD quality over some "part time HD.... FX or Sci fi"....i mean watching those old people browse those ancient flea markets in high def...wow... and the Gallery HD? with shows like "Art Land" where where they have "the worlds largest collection, of the worlds smallest version, of the worlds largest things"....*IN HD!!!!WOOHOO!*:icon_lame

Give us the nationals in HD...where the demand is....


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The negativity is because angry people tend to be noisier than contented people.


Squeaky wheels get the grease

Companies usually respond to unhappy customers demand not happy customers who ask for nothing.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

texaswolf said:


> Squeaky wheels get the grease
> 
> Companies usually respond to unhappy customers demand not happy customers who ask for nothing.


Interestingly enough, the Japanese view this somewhat differently. Working with people from other countries gives interesting perspectives.

A Japanese tester once explained that when he was in the US working, he complained more because "the squeeky wheel gets the grease"... but in Japan he complained less because "highest nail gets hit"... basically describing that whining/complaining is not rewarded in his culture quite the way it is here.

On another front... I see how many people get into the sky falling over their TV... and then won't take things into their own hands even when they can (if DirecTV is that much better then switch and be happy instead of complaining all the time)... and while I don't want to go into politics, I have to mention that the same folks screaming the sky is falling over HD channels don't threaten to leave the country if health care or unemployment or whatever isn't fixed. We seem to have a lot more tolerance for actual real problems than we do for perceived ones.

Priorities.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> Charlie...is that you??? How would you know? I guess E* will never add to their programming, huh. Real intelligent statement...


No - I didn't say NEVER. Why do you feel the need to put words in someones mouth? My statement in reality is intelligent and based on what you can read below.

But I guess you didn't listen to or read about yesterdays DISH retailer chat. That should tell you not to expect anything in the coming months. Courtesy of satguys:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...rk-retailer-chat-recap-october-24-2007-a.html


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> So I'm tired of all the excuses of it only being a month, when they knew it was coming for months...I would think "negotiations" would have been *well* under way. I would say talk is cheap...but thats the problem E* doesn't talk to its customers...and that is where people are "losing their minds".


To me this is the strongest point of all. DISH KNEW that D* was launching the new sat (D10), they KNEW that D* has been talking about these new channels for OVER 2 YEARS.

Their inaction speaks for itself. The uproar has caused them already to address this in yesterdays DISH Retailers Chat. They flat out said they need bandwidth, and that they would NOT be adding any new HD channels in the near future. Also, they are optimistic that they can get the FIRST of their next two sats in the air by end of Q2 of 2008, which means turnig it on not much before September 2008.

Say what you want about what DISH HAD before, but it doesn't look like they have it NOW!


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

klegg said:


> Actually, it's NOT been a couple of months for all of it. All the negativity in here makes me a little sad...:eek2:


for what they have been saying they would deliver you are right. its been much longer. the negativity has been too.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

klegg said:


> Yes and a good percentage of the ones they added have been available to me for some time now, so keep your chin up. Sheesh! Be patient. Good things come to those who wait. I'll take what I'm currently getting in content as long as my hardware is that far superior to the competition. We will get the content soon enough...MARK IT DOWN!


what hardware are you talking about? thats a matter of opinion too


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> Interestingly enough, the Japanese view this somewhat differently. Working with people from other countries gives interesting perspectives.
> 
> A Japanese tester once explained that when he was in the US working, he complained more because "the squeeky wheel gets the grease"... but in Japan he complained less because "highest nail gets hit"... basically describing that whining/complaining is not rewarded in his culture quite the way it is here.
> 
> ...


.Yeah well...ya know why complaining works here? BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA BABY!!pride WE HAVE CHOICES...AND YA KNOW WHY WE HAVE CHOICES? BECAUSE WE HAVE FREEDOM!! WHY DO WE HAVE FREEDOM? BECAUSE WE GOT THE BOMBS!! NUCLEAR FRACKIN BOMBS........:new_cussi

lol...just kidding...had a little Dennis Leary moment there...

I'm not saying the sky is falling or E* is gonna go out of business...im just like other people who are ticked because the other company has the stuff we want...and they aren't giving us any indication that they will get it soon...so being patient for those of us who have been waiting for them in HD...and now they are...and can't get them...is getting old...thats all


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> No - I didn't say NEVER. Why do you feel the need to put words in someones mouth? My statement in reality is intelligent and based on what you can read below.
> 
> But I guess you didn't listen to or read about yesterdays DISH retailer chat. That should tell you not to expect anything in the coming months. Courtesy of satguys:
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...rk-retailer-chat-recap-october-24-2007-a.html


Hmmm. Just outta speculation, I went to that link (I personally don't spend my day on two or three satellite tv websites) you posted. I'm gonna say that for someone who doesn't want anyone putting words in their mouth, you sure put a lot of words that didn't exist in that thread. I saw a lot of speculation, but NEVER did I see someone say what you said. Oh well, I guess I can't read.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

msmith198025 said:


> what hardware are you talking about? thats a matter of opinion too


I've used both. IMO, D* equipment is trash. I will add that many people, including D* subs, agree...


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

klegg said:


> I've used both. IMO, D* equipment is trash. I will add that many people, including D* subs, agree...


I don't agree, but that's just me. The equipment I'm using with D* is much nicer than the stuff we had from Comcast.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> I've used both. IMO, D* equipment is trash. I will add that many people, including D* subs, agree...


And many don't as well - another subjective argument that no one can win - what's the sense of having it in the first place?

Some people like chevy, some hate it. And so on and so on.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

klegg said:


> Hmmm. Just outta speculation, I went to that link (I personally don't spend my day on two or three satellite tv websites) you posted. I'm gonna say that for someone who doesn't want anyone putting words in their mouth, you sure put a lot of words that didn't exist in that thread. I saw a lot of speculation, but NEVER did I see someone say what you said. Oh well, I guess I can't read.


Learn to read, because I did NOT say NEVER - PLAIN AND SIMPLE. And then don't excuse away your spin by putting it back on me.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Does DirecTV have more bandwidth for HD right now than Dish? Sure they do.

Is Dish at the end of their bandwidth? No.

Without even doing a whole lot of work... you can go through the EKB and see lots of places where HD can be added right now. I did it the other day, and I forget the count... but without taking anything down, new HD can be added right now.

Now, with some shuffling, a few more... and if they convert some more to MPEG4 and add the new encoders... a few more.

Again, it is fair to say Dish is bandwidth strapped and won't get major relief until next year. But it is simply 100% wrong to say they have no bandwidth and cannot add any more HD this year.

Some folks have speculated upwards of 20-25 new HD possible. I counted at least 10-12 the other night fairly quickly after looking at the EKB. In either case, Dish could certainly add some more HD if they wanted right now.

It's an entirely different question to ask when or if they will... but they most definately can.


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## klegg (Oct 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Learn to read, because I did NOT say NEVER - PLAIN AND SIMPLE. And then don't excuse away your spin by putting it back on me.


Well, I'm not trying to argue with you, but I didn't say you said NEVER. I said "but NEVER did I see someone say what you said" (I was using "never" to describe that I didn't see some say what you said - "should tell you not to expect anything in the coming months").

You guys are right tho, it is personal preference which is why I said IMO. Good luck to you guys. No offense intended and none was taken on this end...


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> They have been hyping the release of New HD channels for months......
> 
> They released 47 with in the last month...later than they said they would....but they still did...and they say more are coming...this time I believe them.
> 
> the negativity, is probably because a lot of us have been waiting for a lot of those channels in HD (or at least better than SD)...and now the other side has them while we sit.....and wait


For all the negativity you create in these threads, I'm surprised you haven't switched providers yet. I guess you like sitting on the fence, huh?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> Does DirecTV have more bandwidth for HD right now than Dish? Sure they do.
> 
> 'Is Dish at the end of their bandwidth? No.
> 
> ...


"Jim calls the competitions DVR's "kind of Pathetic."

Jim also says "we blow Tivo away as well"

New marketing called "Never Miss" which promoted DVR to never miss your favorite programs, it even says in the ad that "It's better then Tivo".

They continue talking of why Dish Networks DVR's are better then their competition.

They have spent a lot of time talking about this "Never Miss" campaign.

They then show the new DishHD logo, Dish DVR logo and the Dish Record Button

Now lets talk about DirecTV and Dish Network.

They are mad that DirecTV is dogging Dish in their TV ads, so dish is launching their own campaign against DirecTV.

Dish is going to start talking about their "edge" against DirecTV. They want retailers to tell customers why Dish is better.

Jim says there will be additional HD launched in the future and that they are working to reclaim bandwidth so they can add more HD channels."

Sounds to me like they cant..."reclaim bandwith to add more HD" sounds like they are out...didn't they have a launch failure on a new sat going up? Maybe that is why they don't have it? Also with the "edge" promo they are planning and the trash talking others dvr's....you got to admit...it sounds like they are scrambling for a new approach, until they can get bandwith.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

texaswolf said:


> Jim says there will be additional HD launched in the future and that they are working to reclaim bandwidth so they can add more HD channels."
> 
> Sounds to me like they cant..."reclaim bandwith to add more HD" sounds like they are out...didn't they have a launch failure on a new sat going up? Maybe that is why they don't have it? Also with the "edge" promo they are planning and the trash talking others dvr's....you got to admit...it sounds like they are scrambling for a new approach, until they can get bandwith.


To be fair, you are quoting from an online synopsis of a retailer chat... which until the recent years of blogs, web forums, and the internet is information that would have been relatively private info that us customers would never see. Having worked for companies and been involved in private meetings where we would talk about competitors and their products... Sometimes the competition is acknowledged in a positive way, and sometimes not.

As I, and others, have said though... Dish can add new HD right now if they want. How much requires a little research and debate... but you can go through the transponder loads yourself on the EKB which should be up to date unless something new has happened today that hasn't made its way into the charts there.

You can easily see places for about 9-12 or so on 129 location, slightly less on 61.5. With creativity and other things that seem to be happening if you look at the uplink reports posted, it seems like Dish could get to 20-25 or so HD with a little work.

Absolutely have a bandwidth crunch compared to DirecTV and could not add the same number as they have right now especially if DirecTV keeps adding... but it is just not true to say Dish can't add any.

Dish has to be choosy... and not lock into a long-term agreement (like with TBS non-HD since baseball ended) with a sub-par channel right now and then have some nice HD launch a week later... but Dish can add more now if they want.

And again, DirecTV customers waited a couple of years on their plan to launch these new satellites... and I don't recall seeing a lot of churn in that time of people fleeing DirecTV to come to Dish because Dish had more HD. Similarly, here we are about a month after DirecTV started putting up new stuff... so I can't understand some folks' panicking and demanding answers from Dish as if this has been a long-term drought or something.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

Some people are just never satisfied.... they want more. Well, we live in a free society and those that want more have choices. But, if they made those choices they probably wouldn't have reason to complain anymore, or would they?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> To be fair, you are quoting from an online synopsis of a retailer chat... which until the recent years of blogs, web forums, and the internet is information that would have been relatively private info that us customers would never see. Having worked for companies and been involved in private meetings where we would talk about competitors and their products... Sometimes the competition is acknowledged in a positive way, and sometimes not.
> 
> As I, and others, have said though... Dish can add new HD right now if they want. How much requires a little research and debate... but you can go through the transponder loads yourself on the EKB which should be up to date unless something new has happened today that hasn't made its way into the charts there.
> 
> ...


Until i see you as a E* retail press release guy...i have to take what i can get from someone who witnessed it...posted on a dish forum board as it was happening....who does this for every meeting for the dish customers on that site.
Since your beloved E* hasn't said one thing to customers we have to get it where we can...and obviously with them taking other avenues of approach to ring in subs...instead of putting out the channels...they are in a crunch...too bad E* doesn't have the balls to tell us this themselves...i think most people would rather hear this then wait and wait for nothing. Hey... a satellite launch had issues...understandable ....let us know. Whatever...you can defend all you want to, but IF D* does pull through with more launches by the end of the year while E* sits still and promotes better equipment...it will be pointless.

Oh and as far as "never satisfied"....you can sit there and be peachy keen with what you have and love it...but the fact is...there a lot of customers who want these other channels...and i don't want to hear what percentage we on this board make up of E* customers...look at any sat. board...you'll see the same complaints....and thats only us on the boards...think about how many are out there who don't come to these sites...for instance a guy at work was all happy that Sci Fi went HD...which made another happy...until I told him that E* doesn't offer it in HD (which is what he has)...he was pretty ticked...now I'm sure there are a ton more out there that feel the same about that channel and others that D* has that we don't.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

texaswolf said:


> Until i see you as a E* retail press release guy...i have to take what i can get from someone who witnessed it...posted on a dish forum board as it was happening....who does this for every meeting for the dish customers on that site.


Ok. Umm.. Ok. One random guy on an internet forum that I don't know personally and have never met is about as credible as the next  But, I wasn't doubting or questioning anything in that posting. I was merely pointing out that it was not intended for the general public. Like intercepting an internal company memo, you have to take what you get from such a meeting with a grain of salt. Even with that in mind, the quote attributed to Dish was that they would be adding HD in the future and were working to reclaim bandwidth to add even more. Which to my mind says exactly what I and others have been saying. They can add some now, and some more after tweaking their configurations.



texaswolf said:


> Since your beloved E* hasn't said one thing to customers we have to get it where we can...


They aren't my "beloved" any more than they are yours. You are a Dish customer, right?

And hey, to be fair... You're ragging on Dish not communicating to its customers, but how are you communicating to Dish? Maybe you should call them and write them letters.. or better yet, if they truly are making you mad, cancel their service and go to DirecTV and be happy. Sure, you can say all you want that you can't because of the contract... but you did sign that contract knowing the HD Dish had at the time, and apparently were happy with Dish at that time... so being jealous over DirecTV isn't their fault. Perhaps you should have been a smarter shopper if you are going to get this antsy and rage against the machine.



texaswolf said:


> ...think about how many are out there who don't come to these sites...for instance a guy at work was all happy that Sci Fi went HD...which made another happy...until I told him that E* doesn't offer it in HD (which is what he has)...he was pretty ticked...


Ok, this was funny. I had to read several times to make sure I was reading you correctly. A guy with Dish wasn't unhappy about SciFiHD not being on Dish until you told him? He has Dish and didn't notice that he didn't have it? Good grief. If THAT is the example of the average Dish customer, who doesn't even know he doesn't have a channel until someone else tells him he doesn't have it... then Dish may never add another HD channel again. If their average customer can't even tell the difference... Dish will never be motivated to add them.

You just put a nail in your own coffin with that one.


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## poopy01 (Sep 27, 2007)

HDMe said:


> Does DirecTV have more bandwidth for HD right now than Dish? Sure they do.
> 
> Is Dish at the end of their bandwidth? No.
> 
> ...


They seem to have enough problems adding locals.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> Ok. Umm.. Ok. One random guy on an internet forum that I don't know personally and have never met is about as credible as the next But, I wasn't doubting or questioning anything in that posting. I was merely pointing out that it was not intended for the general public. Like intercepting an internal company memo, you have to take what you get from such a meeting with a grain of salt.


Yep, but from a guy who is on the E* side and puts these post out there for E* customers who want to know..perhaps if you actually read it...you'd see a lot of E* customers thanking him for it. I could really care if it's "intended" for us to see at all....they don't want to tell us anything, so we find out our own way. I don't take everything as gospel from that post....but it doesn't take a genius to see what direction they are going with promos...



> And hey, to be fair... You're ragging on Dish not communicating to its customers, but how are you communicating to Dish? Maybe you should call them and write them letters.. or better yet, if they truly are making you mad, cancel their service and go to DirecTV and be happy. Sure, you can say all you want that you can't because of the contract... but you did sign that contract knowing the HD Dish had at the time, and apparently were happy with Dish at that time... so being jealous over DirecTV isn't their fault. Perhaps you should have been a smarter shopper if you are going to get this antsy and rage against the machine.


Trust me...I have made several complaints to different parts of the company....and I get nowhere. When I was shopping between the 2 companies, the guy at E* ensured me that they were the HD leader (they were at the time) and that they would continue to be, when i asked about specific channels being available in HD since D* was already blabbing about getting them, he also told me they were working on those and many others...so..silly me for trsuting E* sales, right? i have asked several time to be let out of my contract do to this...no dice...so my "antsy rage" is a little justified for me. Why pay $240 to go to D* and give E* extra money for BSing me?



> Ok, this was funny. I had to read several times to make sure I was reading you correctly. A guy with Dish wasn't unhappy about SciFiHD not being on Dish until you told him? He has Dish and didn't notice that he didn't have it? Good grief. If THAT is the example of the average Dish customer, who doesn't even know he doesn't have a channel until someone else tells him he doesn't have it... then Dish may never add another HD channel again. If their average customer can't even tell the difference... Dish will never be motivated to add them.
> 
> You just put a nail in your own coffin with that one


lol...dude...really? read what you copied and pasted of my quote.
*
...think about how many are out there who don't come to these sites...for instance a guy at work was all happy that Sci Fi went HD...which made another happy...until I told him that E* doesn't offer it in HD (which is what he has)...he was pretty ticked...*

I'll spell this out for you...a guy at work was happy SF went *HD*...keyword here is *HD*...which made another guy happy (thinking he would see it in HD also)...still with me?...until i told him that E* (which he has) doesn't offer it in *HD*...not at all...in...*HD*...thus causing him to be mad....

So from this we can tell that the "happy" guy has D*....when talking about SF *now* being in HD,,,caused the E* guy to be happy...thinking...it was just launched in HD...until I had to tell him it didn't launch for E* just D*..which made him mad....he is the average customer, who isn't "up to date" with HD releases, but has channels he would like to see in HD...thus explaining his disappointment.
This was right after D* finally had the channels launched.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

klegg said:


> I've used both. IMO, D* equipment is trash. I will add that many people, including D* subs, agree...


No doubt some do. And some dont. Its all a matter of opinion. If you look you will also find that alot of the D* subs that were complaining about the HR-20 did so when it was new and buggy, also the transition from tivo to a D* box was hard on some Tivo fanatics. Most of that has been resolved.
I personally have been pleased with my D* hardware. With my E* stuff too for the most part, although I will say ive had E* stuff crash twice. Never on D*


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I am 100% in speculation mode, but I base this on DISH's statement that they have to 'reclaim' bandwidth and that new channels are coming in the 'future'. This is THEIR words not mine. To me it appears to be an honest reply to the outcry for additional programming - and it was delivered to THEIR RETAILERS, along with their ideas for them to help them sell DISH and retain their present customers.

There is also the constant talk that many have issues from the 129 satellite, there is known fact that almost every DISH sat has had some anomoly issues in the past couple of years - reducing their capabiity, and so on.

While they technically may HAVE bandwidth, they might in reality have NONE to use for additional channels without putting them over their 'disaster' contingency plans. DirecTV also HAD available bandwidth prior to the launch of D10, but it remained as unused, and there for their contingency plans. Neither company would ever put their sats at 100% usage on a full-time basis. 

Those sats also undergo periodic maintenance and such which wouldn't allow that either.


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## projectorguru (Mar 5, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> both companies have channels like that James...
> 
> And yes Sci FI has shows people are asking for...so does FX
> 
> I think CNN is a pretty popular channel...they may like that in HD too...CNBC would be great in HD for business watchers...or Fox business (which we can't even get in SD)


CNN a popular channel, uh, not! They along with MSNBC have been at the bottom of ratings as far news channels.

One thing I always like to note here, to me I can only afford a certain package, or at least will only pay so much a month for the 30 channels I actually watch, I used to have the movies packages with Dish, and dropped them after the contract went out because of playin the same thing over and over, now for me 70 or 100 HD channels don't mean a thing, cuz in the packages I get ill never see that many, what they should market,IMHO, is give me the number of channels in the package for each carrier that the most people have currently(usually a mid-tier package?) and then people would see what Hd channels they would really get, nowhere near 70 for sure, but anyway I am leavin Dish, cuz of NO HD locals, and payin too much to upgrade to one receiver, bottom line.....


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I just received in the mail an ad from DirecTV bragging about their 70 HD channels with "up to" 100 by year end.

So whatever method they are using to count HD has them declaring they have 70. I would like someone to call and ask how to get those 70 channels and see if you actually could. And of course the big print says "packages starting at just $29.00." So people think, wow I can get 70 HD channels for $29. Wait til they find out its probably more like $129.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

ebaltz said:


> I just received in the mail an ad from DirecTV bragging about their 70 HD channels with "up to" 100 by year end.
> 
> So whatever method they are using to count HD has them declaring they have 70. I would like someone to call and ask how to get those 70 channels and see if you actually could. And of course the big print says "packages starting at just $29.00." So people think, wow I can get 70 HD channels for $29. Wait til they find out its probably more like $129.


I would bet (would you?) that a D* sub can get way closer to the '70' number than a E* sub can get to THEIR 75 number.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

ScoBuck said:


> I would bet (would you?) that a D* sub can get way closer to the '70' number than a E* sub can get to THEIR 75 number.


your correct. Counting everything i get in HD the way some people do , im over that number


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> I would bet (would you?) that a D* sub can get way closer to the '70' number than a E* sub can get to THEIR 75 number.


I'd bet that less money at E* gives more channels than D* ...

New Subs -
E* $49.99 for 32 HDs (and AT100)
D* $59.98 for 23 HDs (and Choice)
E* $62.99 for 33 HDs (and AT200)
D* $64.97 for 28 HDs (Choice and HD Extra)
D* $64.98 for 28 HDs (and Choice Xtra)
D* $69.97 for 33 HDs (Choice Xtra and HD Extra)
E* $72.99 for 37 HDs (and AT250)
So far so good ... E* w/HD is less money ... 
At the lower levels one only gets their own RSNs - how namy varies.
Also add to D*'s count if your market has HD LIL (same for E*).

It's only when you hit the high end that D* "wins" ...

D* $109.98 for 59 HDs (including all RSNs)
E* $109.99 for 42 HDs (and AEP - local RSNs)
E* $115.98 for 42 HDs plus RSNs (since E* doesn't not force the "sports pack" on their AEP subs)


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> I'd bet that less money at E* gives more channels than D* ...
> 
> It's only when you hit the high end that D* "wins" ...


So now to keep your E* is better and has more argument alive you concede that D* DOES HAVE MORE national channels, but E* is cheaper. And of course, you use 'new subs' - why is that - don't us OLD subs count?

Another 'spin it' to 'win it' I guess. But JL, what's a few more dollars to get the BETTER offering? No big deal to me.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> I'd bet that less money at E* gives more channels than D* ...
> 
> New Subs -
> E* $49.99 for 32 HDs (and AT100)
> ...


Add to these number the "fees" that each charge. As was pointed out to me many times the smaller DVR fees that D* charges get added to the programming package price.

So D* charges $5 vs E*'s $6 rental
So D* charges $5 per account vs E*'s $6 per box DVR fee

While I understand that no everyone has a DVR or rents their box these numbers are important and if you add these to the mix then the numbers move toward D*'s favor.

As a current and hopefully future E* customer I really hope Dish makes some changes.

Forget adding more chanels of HD if it will mean more compression.

What good is HD anyway if they rape you on DVR fees if you actually want to watch HD on more than one HD set in real HD.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW - I pay $74 and get 50 HD channels (Total Choice Plus is $51.99, HD access is $9.99, $12 SportsPack) to me that beats $73 for the 37 channels you say a E* sub would get.

Your math seems off I think in your post, because that is what I get and what I pay.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> So now to keep your E* is better and has more argument alive you concede that D* DOES HAVE MORE national channels, but E* is cheaper. And of course, you use 'new subs' - why is that - don't us OLD subs count?


D* has some grandfathering in place. Giving a "new sub" price is a way of leveling the comparison, since new subs cannot get the OLD subs prices.

BTW: That 59 counts channels *I* do not believe should count. But there is a chance that someone will see HD on each of those channels ... not a very good one on some of them, but a chance.


> Another 'spin it' to 'win it' I guess. But JL, what's a few more dollars to get the BETTER offering? No big deal to me.


In your book E* can't win in any category.



jrb531 said:


> Add to these number the "fees" that each charge. As was pointed out to me many times the smaller DVR fees that D* charges get added to the programming package price.


Yep ... those that have more pay more - but E* still does well at the lower levels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> BTW - I pay $74 and get 50 HD channels (Total Choice Plus is $51.99, HD access is $9.99, $12 SportsPack) to me that beats $73 for the 37 channels you say a E* sub would get.
> 
> Your math seems off I think in your post, because that is what I get and what I pay.


That's because you are an OLD customer.

Total Choice Plus is no longer offered ... new subs have to sign up for Choice Xtra to get those channels - and pay $3 more than you. Plus you are grandfathered on the HD Extra channels (for a couple of months). You have also added the Sports Pack, which was not on the chart. That's an $81.97 total for new subs.

The math is fine ... you just are not reading the chart.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Wrong James - I have said many times - Before October 3rd or so E* did win - in having the MOST HD channels. Today, they don't win in any category in HD. they don't win in PQ for HD anymore, they don't win in quantity or quality of HD channels, they charge MORE for HD for less.

And as far as cost, I will also say that in 2 weeks there will be another 10 HD channels on D* - so the cost will be an even greater advantage for D*.

Face it - RIGHT NOW, DirecTV has taken over the lead - and it is E*'s turn to respond.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> I'd bet that less money at E* gives more channels than D* ...
> 
> New Subs -
> E* $49.99 for 32 HDs (and AT100)
> ...


I see that even "forcing the sports pack" onto their subs doesnt add anything they dont already get though. With D* you do get some extra content


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> That's because you are an OLD customer.
> 
> Total Choice Plus is no longer offered ... new subs have to sign up for Choice Xtra to get those channels - and pay $3 more than you. Plus you are grandfathered on the HD Extra channels (for a couple of months). You have also added the Sports Pack, which was not on the chart. That's an $81.97 total for new subs.
> 
> The math is fine ... you just are not reading the chart.


So for the 200,000 new subs every quarter (give or take) the price is a few dollars higher, but for the 16 MILLION existing subs the price is LOWER.

And you must have missed the fact that new subs get various price reductions such as HD free for 6 months, or special intro rates for 3 or so months, etc.

Whatever - you pick the math you pick the scenario, you make the rules.

But I pay $74 for 50 channels - DISH can't get ANY customer 50 HD channels AT ANY PRICE RIGHT NOW. And if I wanted to add movies I can get 12 more HD channels.

But you win - in that I won't argue with you anymore. Just get some rafts, the DISH boat is taking on water it looks like.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> Today, they don't win in any category in HD.


Ignore the facts all you want. $49.99 at E* gives 32 channels of HD. The same $ at D* gives less. You have to cross the $70 line before you have more channels. And for $74 E* will still give more channels (current pricing).

Be glad you're grandfathered! 



msmith198025 said:


> I see that even "forcing the sports pack" onto their subs doesnt add anything they dont already get though. With D* you do get some extra content


I don't count RSNs ... you can add 2 to 22 to that count, whatever is appropriate for the customer.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> E* $109.99 for 42 HDs (and AEP - local RSNs)
> E* $115.98 for 42 HDs plus RSNs (since E* doesn't not force the "sports pack" on their AEP subs)


Then why did you include the last line for comparison?



James Long said:


> I don't count RSNs ... you can add 2 to 22 to that count, whatever is appropriate for the customer.


That would be 2 maybe three at the most. And only if a game is on. Ok, here we go again...lol


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> So for the 200,000 new subs every quarter (give or take) the price is a few dollars higher, but for the 16 MILLION existing subs the price is LOWER.


No ... D* does NOT have 16 million HD subs. Anyone who signs up now has to pay the new price for HD.

And the grandfathering you are under for Total Choice Plus began in February ... everyone since then has been paying the higher price (and your grandfathering may not last forever).



> And you must have missed the fact that new subs get various price reductions such as HD free for 6 months, or special intro rates for 3 or so months, etc.


E* has great new customer deals as well ... including free HDs for 6 months (saving $20 per month, not $10/$15) and a free HD DVR (saving $199). All that adds complications to the chart. Keep it simple.



msmith198025 said:


> Then why did you include the last line for comparison?


Because it is unfair to compare Premier that includes RSNs with AEP that doesn't. It only takes $6 to even the comparison. 



> That would be 2 maybe three at the most. And only if a game is on. Ok, here we go again...lol


And D* has non-game HD on ALL of it's "HD" RSNs? Shouldn't be counted at all ... but I figured if I listed them I could avoid the argument. Fat chance!


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> No ... D* does NOT have 16 million HD subs. Anyone who signs up now has to pay the new price for HD.
> 
> E* has great new customer deals as well ... including free HDs for 6 months (saving $20 per month, not $10/$15) and a free HD DVR (saving $199). All that adds complications to the chart. Keep it simple.


You are correct on the the first part. New subs pay new prices.

Free HD-DVR doesnt save some people anything since they got or still can get one for free with either company.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I count any RSN that I receive with my Sports Pack. Today that is 11 HD RSNS. Why wouldn't they count? I get them because I want them and pay for them - same as a movie package - EXACTLY THE SAME.

And at $74 I get 50 HD channels, so how does E* beat that? THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE 50 national channels a sub could get - even if they wanted to pay for them.

And as I said within 2 weeks the number will be at least 10 MORE that I get AT THAT $74 dollar price.

Will the channel count at DISH go up by 10 in the next 2 weeks. 2 months? 6 months (getting close now I think).

By then (6 months) I will wager that DirecTV has 40 more HD channels.

But hang in there mate - you guys will catch up!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I was trying to keep it simple ... evidently some people like complexity.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

I have AEP...and just counted my channels...I have 40....to me NBA HD doesn't count since all it says is "off air"....and i wish they would tak the NHL CI and NBA pss of the "all hd" guide if i didn't subscribe to it...and the HD PPV too...i would like to look at whats on the HD channels that I actually have


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I just wish all the people who are unhappy with Dish would just get off their butts and switch already. No whining all the time about how unfair it is, no complaining about being locked into a contract. You have to be an adult to be legally bound in a contract like that... so act like an adult and either accept that you signed one and are bound to it, or act like an adult and pay the penalty to be released early and move onward.

I am getting tired again of the circular arguments. I see problems at both satellite companies.. I see good things with both satellite companies. I understand sometimes people want to switch from one to the other for a perceived or a real advantage. What I never understand is endless complaining coupled with doing nothing to improve their own situation.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I just wish all the people who are unhappy with Dish would just get off their butts and switch already. No whining all the time about how unfair it is, no complaining about being locked into a contract. You have to be an adult to be legally bound in a contract like that... so act like an adult and either accept that you signed one and are bound to it, or act like an adult and pay the penalty to be released early and move onward.
> 
> I am getting tired again of the circular arguments. I see problems at both satellite companies.. I see good things with both satellite companies. I understand sometimes people want to switch from one to the other for a perceived or a real advantage. What I never understand is endless complaining coupled with doing nothing to improve their own situation.


well your leave long responses also...those are bound to get a response back...forming a circle argument...get used to the complainers...there will be many more to come....it's like this on all the sat and HD boards


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I just wish all the people who are unhappy with Dish would just get off their butts and switch already. No whining all the time about how unfair it is, no complaining about being locked into a contract. You have to be an adult to be legally bound in a contract like that... so act like an adult and either accept that you signed one and are bound to it, or act like an adult and pay the penalty to be released early and move onward.
> 
> I am getting tired again of the circular arguments. I see problems at both satellite companies.. I see good things with both satellite companies. I understand sometimes people want to switch from one to the other for a perceived or a real advantage. What I never understand is endless complaining coupled with doing nothing to improve their own situation.


what about complaining about the complainers...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> I have AEP...and just counted my channels...I have 40....to me NBA HD doesn't count since all it says is "off air"....and i wish they would tak the NHL CI and NBA pss of the "all hd" guide if i didn't subscribe to it...and the HD PPV too...i would like to look at whats on the HD channels that I actually have


As noted in a few other threads ... go to locks, lock out those channels, and hide locked channels. They will disappear from all of your guide options.



msmith198025 said:


> what about complaining about the complainers...


Some people are sore winners.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> As noted in a few other threads ... go to locks, lock out those channels, and hide locked channels. They will disappear from all of your guide options.
> 
> Some people are sore winners.


sweet ...thank you

I didn't look it up yet because i had just noticed how many PPV channels they had on there when i was counting.

Is there any news on NBA HD scheduling? All i get is "off air"...or does it start when the season does?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

msmith198025 said:


> what about complaining about the complainers...


That's actually a valid point... which is why I am making myself a promise to not get sucked into the vortex next time.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> I would bet (would you?) that a D* sub can get way closer to the '70' number than a E* sub can get to THEIR 75 number.


This shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

With the exceptions of four premium movie feeds, Versus/Golf, NBA TV and NGC, all DISH national HD channels are available to all MPEG4 HD subscribers. On the DIRECTV side, you must subscribe to a premium package to have access to eleven premium movie feeds and the CONUS RSNs and NBA/NHL when those become available. National Geographic is in an elevated tier with D* also.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

HDMe said:


> I just wish all the people who are unhappy with Dish would just get off their butts and switch already. No whining all the time about how unfair it is, no complaining about being locked into a contract. You have to be an adult to be legally bound in a contract like that... so act like an adult and either accept that you signed one and are bound to it, or act like an adult and pay the penalty to be released early and move onward.
> 
> I am getting tired again of the circular arguments. I see problems at both satellite companies.. I see good things with both satellite companies. I understand sometimes people want to switch from one to the other for a perceived or a real advantage. What I never understand is endless complaining coupled with doing nothing to improve their own situation.


I absolutely agree with you.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> This shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
> 
> With the exceptions of four premium movie feeds, Versus/Golf, NBA TV and NGC, all DISH national HD channels are available to all MPEG4 HD subscribers. On the DIRECTV side, you must subscribe to a premium package to have access to eleven premium movie feeds and the CONUS RSNs and NBA/NHL when those become available. National Geographic is in an elevated tier with D* also.


I think that is the same with us...maybe not 11...but if i remember right when i got the AEP...they told me i would get a few more HD channels and NBA and i "think" NHL were 2 of them....someone else might know for certain...... i think James has the correct lineup.....but I believe those came with it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

AEP adds NBA TV and it's eventual HD channel (or one can subscribe to the Sports Pack).
NHL HD is available at AT250 with Golf/Versus, National Geographic and the Science Channel.
Animal Planet is available at AT200 ... the rest of the non-premium channels are available with AT100 (and the DishHD package).


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> Because it is unfair to compare Premier that includes RSNs with AEP that doesn't. It only takes $6 to even the comparison.
> 
> And D* has non-game HD on ALL of it's "HD" RSNs? Shouldn't be counted at all ... but I figured if I listed them I could avoid the argument. Fat chance!


No, there isnt at this point non game HD on ALL of them. But there is way more non game HD content on them than on their counterpart offered elswhere.....


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

Based on how DirecTV probably counts, I count 86 HD channels on my Dish right now. I counted every HD channel. So Dish is "capable" of broadcasting that many right now. I could actually get all those, it didn't count the out of market locals or RSNs. If you counted those then Dish could say it is broadcasting 100s of HD channels.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

ebaltz said:


> Based on how DirecTV probably counts, I count 86 HD channels on my Dish right now. I counted every HD channel. So Dish is "capable" of broadcasting that many right now. I could actually get all those, it didn't count the out of market locals or RSNs. If you counted those then Dish could say it is broadcasting 100s of HD channels.


Are you counting all of the NBA and NHL CI and PPV's?


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I am counting everything. I can tune to 86 HD channels.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

ebaltz said:


> I am counting everything. I can tune to 86 HD channels.


yeah, that could be said on either side. which is junk. MLB EI or NFL ST could count for either. For the most part, I agree with James count. We disagree on the RSN difference, but hey, both have alot. If you want more national "cable channels" , and sports D* is the way to go. If you want programs like what voom offers, then E* is your ticket. we all win


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

msmith198025 said:


> yeah, that could be said on either side. which is junk. MLB EI or NFL ST could count for either. For the most part, I agree with James count. We disagree on the RSN difference, but hey, both have alot. If you want more national "cable channels" , and sports D* is the way to go. If you want programs like what voom offers, then E* is your ticket. we all win


Yeah, you would have to count D*s NFL ticket, MLB, NASCAR, PPV...and NHL & NBA (once they come on)...so all that would do is boost D* even farther ahead..

Regardless ...your talking hundreds of dollars in subs...to get "all" HD's


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> Yeah, you would have to count D*s NFL ticket, MLB, NASCAR, PPV...and NHL & NBA (once they come on)...so all that would do is boost D* even farther ahead..
> 
> Regardless ...your talking hundreds of dollars in subs...to get "all" HD's


exactly. to count EVERYTHING, , D*, NOW would still be ahead. And will be for the next few months. But that number is bloated at best. 
insert circular argument here


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

Just wanted to add, been watching at least 3 extra hd games on my non game only RSN's today. No blackouts. Odd, but wondering if E* has been doing that.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

msmith198025 said:


> Just wanted to add, been watching at least 3 extra hd games on my non game only RSN's today. No blackouts. Odd, but wondering if E* has been doing that.


ugh...dunno...all i know is there are 2 spots open on BTN and I am stuck watching a Big Ten game on REALLY CRAPPY espn classic

although i think thats BTN doing not E*

RSN's your taking about are the fox sports network?


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> ugh...dunno...all i know is there are 2 spots open on BTN and I am stuck watching a Big Ten game on REALLY CRAPPY espn classic
> 
> although i think thats BTN doing not E*
> 
> RSN's your taking about are the fox sports network?


Yeah for the most part im talking about the fox sports net. and NOW im watching post game shows, on my D* account....
Edit: dont have HD on my E* account. just wondering what they were showing NOW on those channels


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

msmith198025 said:


> Just wanted to add, been watching at least 3 extra hd games on my non game only RSN's today. No blackouts. Odd, but wondering if E* has been doing that.


Had games on Prime, FoxW, and Several BigTen games on 2 different channels, in HD, all day today. FoxW only carried 2 games though, instead of the 3, 2nd one UCLS vs WSU, wasn't HD.

Something I have been trying to get answers from D* today, and nobody seems to be able to answer the question. When looking at the D* TV guide, NOT all of their HD channels list HD programming. CNN, FX, MGMHD, USAHD, TWCHD all do NOT list thier Content as HD. TBSHD, TNTHD, SciFiHD, VSHD, All the StarzHD, and other Movie channels do. Going over the D* TV listing guide at the shows, and seems strange, that the only shows that show as HD, are the Movie channels, SciFi and all the same channels that E* carries. All those other HD channels in D*'s online TV gudie do NOT Carry the HD content logo.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

msmith198025 said:


> No, there isnt at this point non game HD on ALL of them. But there is way more non game HD content on them than on their counterpart offered elswhere.....


Yes, D* has five RSNs that carry non-game content. The other six RSNs are upconvert except the same games that are in HD on E*'s HD RSNs.


texaswolf said:


> ugh...dunno...all i know is there are 2 spots open on BTN and I am stuck watching a Big Ten game on REALLY CRAPPY espn classic
> 
> although i think thats BTN doing not E*


That's ESPNs doing ... they have the rights to the game. BTN can't show it.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> Something I have been trying to get answers from D* today, and nobody seems to be able to answer the question. When looking at the D* TV guide, NOT all of their HD channels list HD programming. CNN, FX, MGMHD, USAHD, TWCHD all do NOT list thier Content as HD. TBSHD, TNTHD, SciFiHD, VSHD, All the StarzHD, and other Movie channels do. Going over the D* TV listing guide at the shows, and seems strange, that the only shows that show as HD, are the Movie channels, SciFi and all the same channels that E* carries. All those other HD channels in D*'s online TV gudie do NOT Carry the HD content logo.


from what I've heard they just haven't updated their guide yet, for some reason...but the channels are in HD.



> That's ESPNs doing ... they have the rights to the game. BTN can't show it.


oh yeah thats right...i was thinking it was only the ESPN (main) and ABC games they still had rights over...like the prime time games...throwing a game on classic like that...looked horrible.......bleh


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

My 1st thought was that they just hadn't updated the guide, the more people I talked to at D* made me think, that the HD logo is a legal issue, and only Channels that meet the minimum HD requirement have it. Makes me wonder about all those channels that don't have it, HD channel with only SD upconvert, would still look better, but will it look better than a 722 with its SD upconvert?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

(HD) in the guides is very unreliable. I'd only trust in on channels that don't have upconvert content at all.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

that I couldn't tell you...i still have the 622...I would like to here how much better the 722 up convert is...because i seen on D* how much better the "HD" conversion looks...so that may make me leap to the 722 if it makes our SD look a lot better


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The ViP622 and ViP722 do virtually the same upconvert for SD signals. I say "virtually" because I gather the ViP722 has a slightly more recent revision of the Broadcom chipset, so it is possible that the process is slightly different... but not intentionally different, just the most recent chipset.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> that I couldn't tell you...i still have the 622...I would like to here how much better the 722 up convert is...because i seen on D* how much better the "HD" conversion looks...so that may make me leap to the 722 if it makes our SD look a lot better


I will let you know, but it wont happen until Feb though.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> I'd bet that less money at E* gives more channels than D* ...
> 
> New Subs -
> E* $49.99 for 32 HDs (and AT100)
> ...


For a new DirecTV sub, the cost would be $54.98/month and a person gets 35 HD channels - not 23. And yes, some of them are not on until November, but this is way different than 60 a month for 23 channels. And the channel offering is much better than DISH'S in my estimation as well - so if they get these all done by next month, there is no comparison anymore.

From the DIRECTV website:

*Over 150 top channels including movies, sports, family favorites, as well as your favorite channels in HD* like A&E HD, CNN HD, ESPN HD and more when you add HD Access for just $9.99/mo. A great value in TV entertainment. *
The 101™*
A&E*
ABC Family*
America's Store
American Movie Classics (AMC)
Animal Planet*
BBC America
Black Entertainment Television (BET)
Bloomberg Television
Bravo*
BYU TV
C-SPAN
C-SPAN2
Cartoon Network*
CCTV-9 (Chinese language)
The Church Channel
CNBC*
CNBC World
CNN*
Comedy Central
Country Music Television (CMT)*
Court TV
Current TV
Daystar
Discovery Channel*
Discovery Kids Channel
Disney Channel (East)*
Disney Channel (West)*
ESPN*
ESPN2*
ESPNEWS*
EWTN
FINE LIVING
FitTV
Food Network*
Fox News Channel
Fuse
FX*
Galavisión
GEMS TV
GOD TV
GSN, the network for games
Hallmark Channel
HD Theater*
Headline News
The History Channel*
HITN-TV
Home & Garden Television (HGTV)*
Home Shopping Network
i Independent TV
Independent Film Channel
The Learning Channel (TLC)*
Lifetime
Lifetime Movie Network
Link TV
MSNBC
MTV*
MTV2
NASA TV
National Geographic Channel*
NFL Network*
Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite (East)*
Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite (West)*
Noggin/The N
NRB
ONCE México
QVC
REELZ Channel
RFD-TV
SCI FI Channel*
The Science Channel*
ShopNBC
SOAPnet
Spike TV*
Sport South
TBS*
TCT Network
The Big Ten Network*
TNT*
Toon Disney*
Travel Channel
Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN)
Turner Classic Movies (TCM)
TV Guide Channel
TV Land
TV One
Univision
USA Network*
VH1*
WE: Women's Entertainment
The Weather Channel*
The Word
World Harvest Television (WHT)

†Eligibility for local channels based on service address. Not all networks available in all markets. 
*Channel available in HD. To access DIRECTV High-Definition programming, a five LNB multi-satellite dish antenna, DIRECTV® HD Receiver (H20, H21, HR20, HR21), high-definition television and HD Access fee ($9.99/mo.) are required.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

You had me all excited thinking I missed something when I was building D* packages over the weekend.

If you choose the 54.98 package, you still need to add to it cost wise to get all those channels. So after you add HBO, Cinemax, RSN's and 9.99 for HD access. 
You end up with, Directly from D* config page.
Your First Month's Bill
PREMIER 
$99.99 
HD Access 
$9.99 
$23/mo. credit for STARZ and SHOWTIME for 3 months -$23.00 
First Month's Total: $86.98 
Mail-in Redemption -$10.00 
Final Monthly Total:* $76.98 


After 3 months you have to add $23 to the $86.89 
so for 21 of the 24 months the cost is 109.89. 

For me, when I did the order my startup cost for was 389 and change.
but we aren't talking equipment here, as equipment was my stopping point from moving over. At least for now.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

RealityCheck said:


> For a new DirecTV sub, the cost would be $54.98/month and a person gets 35 HD channels - not 23. And yes, some of them are not on until November, ...


Counting "promised" programming seems a little sleazy ... but D* likes to pad their channel count. 

$10 off for 12 months does seem to turn $44.99 into a "regular price" ... although E*'s $20 off for 6 months is basically the same discount applied faster. It really changes the tables.

Both systems will add channels. The chart I made is based on the offerings as of the day it was written (although I miscounted and included NBA TV HD - which became available today).


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> ... but D* likes to pad their channel count.


Flying in the face of the current DISH advertising (70 national channels), that is an absurd comment - and I am sure you know it as well - it is a comment solely intended to get a response - and it suceeded!

Talk about stirring the pot.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

D* has been padding their counts (SD and promised HD) for a long long long long time.


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## Wind_River (Feb 6, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Flying in the face of the current DISH advertising (70 national channels), that is an absurd comment
> 
> Talk about stirring the pot.


Of course, we won't respond, since this person's goal seems to be to shut down any E* threads....

So I won't respond, so the thread won't be shut down.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> D* has been padding their counts (SD and promised HD) for a long long long long time.


As already mentioned, a practice started by DISH with the DISH 500 announcement.

But more importantly, you trash D* - and ignore the tactics by DISH. I just don't get it.

It's truly like a cult in these threads. Facts have no place here it seems.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> Of course, we won't respond, since this person's goal seems to be to shut down any E* threads....
> 
> So I won't respond, so the thread won't be shut down.


You don't call this a response. Oh, please. It's a response to a person, not to the facts.

DISH is the HD leader - in padding its channel count!

But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already. See you all in a year or so.


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## Wind_River (Feb 6, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> As already mentioned, a practice started by DISH with the DISH 500 announcement.
> 
> But more importantly, you trash D* - and ignore the tactics by DISH. I just don't get it.
> 
> It's truly like a cult in these threads. Facts have no place here it seems.


*System notice:* This person's posts are being ignored.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already. See you all in a year or so.


I'll hold you to that.

This thread has run it's course.
CLOSED


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