# The Official DIRECTV HD TiVo Anticipation Thread - Q4 2009 Edition



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Even though there's been no real news about the upcoming DIRECTV-TiVo device in over a year, discussion here at DBSTalk.com has been brewing. As the new device gets closer, we'll be rebooting this thread once a quarter until we see some real hardware hit the streets.

Ground Rules:

This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.

If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.

We all acknowledge that _very little is known about the new TiVo device_ and what we've been told may no longer be current. Do not claim to "know" something if you truly do not.

This is the singular thread for all future TiVo discussion until the device is actually revealed. Other threads will be closed.

Above all, enjoy speculating and anticipating a new chapter in DIRECTV history!

September 2008 Press Release
TiVo SEC Filing


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide. 
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface. 
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people. 
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo. 
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas). 
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

And with that... commence anticipating!


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

So am I gonna have 2 dish out $ for a new unit and send back my hd-dvr that I paid $200 bucks for 2 months ago or will dtv cut me a break...


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## ccsoftball7 (Apr 2, 2003)

Anticipating...


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I am anticpating its OTA ability to SCAN! and of course my list guide back.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

I have never owned or used a "real" tivo before - comcrap was rolling it out in some markets on the crappy moto boxes but I'm sure they ran like garbage. I hope this one has fast hardware.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

ccsoftball7 said:


> Anticipating...


Much, much anticipating here, too. I'm currently running 4 HR10-250's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the new DirecTivo appears before they remove the remaining MPEG2 HD stations.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)
> 
> 
> Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
> ...


You forgot the love for the peanut remote.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ATARI said:


> You forgot the love for the peanut remote.


Brings up an interesting point... if, as some suspect, the new DirecTiVo will be based on one of the current HR2x designs, will it use that HR2x's existing remote? Or will there be a new one offered?

I can't imagine a "TiVo" _without _a "peanut" remote. That makes me wonder if a new "peanut" might be compatible with our current HR2x's.

Has anyone used a Comcast DVR that is now running TiVo software? Does it use the old remote, or a new one?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I anticipate that folks will not like what comes out unless it can do everything the non-D* Tivo's can do. Since DirecTV crippled their Tivo boxes when compared to the non-D* boxes before I hope they don't do it again.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

Since this is anticipated to be running on Direct's hardware, I'd like to see the ability to load either software, similar to the way you can force a download on bootup. You know, press 0-2-4-6-8 to get Direct's software and 8-6-4-2-0 to get the Tivo software.....


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

elaclair said:


> Since this is anticipated to be running on Direct's hardware, I'd like to see the ability to load either software, similar to the way you can force a download on bootup. You know, press 0-2-4-6-8 to get Direct's software and 8-6-4-2-0 to get the Tivo software.....


I can just imagine a frontline CSR dealing with that


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

Steve said:


> I can't imagine a "TiVo" _without _a "peanut" remote.


My first TiVo, a standalone that I used with cable, was the Sony SVR-2000, which had a Sony-designed remote instead of the peanut. Fairly soon after that, I got a Home Theater Master universal remote.

I upgraded to a TiVo Series 2 standalone. That one did have the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I switched to DirecTV and a Hughes DirecTiVo. Another TiVo that came with the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I upgraded to HD, and switched to the DirecTV HR21-700. It came with a DirecTV-designed remote, but I'm _still_ using the HTM universal remote.

In conclusion...I can't imagine TiVo _with_ a peanut remote!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

trainman said:


> In conclusion...I can't imagine TiVo _with_ a peanut remote!


:lol:

I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who _loved _both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I never liked the TiVo peanut, as it was too easy to grab it by the wrong end in a dark room and hold it upside down. From past discussions it seems the new DIRECTV TiVo unit will be on new hardware, not a software option for existing users, I would expect it to come with a TiVo-peanut remote, but of course the TiVo button will be a DIRECTV button instead.


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## bhuber (Sep 14, 2004)

Steve said:


> :lol:
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who _loved _both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:


Me too!


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

I still have my old DirecTIVO connected to an old 13" TV in my office. It's not connected to the dish or anything, but when I'm feeling sentimental, I turn it on and browse through the old shows still in the catalogue. (Heavy sigh - ah, fond memories of days gone by...)


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## Talos4 (Jun 21, 2007)

trainman said:


> My first TiVo, a standalone that I used with cable, was the Sony SVR-2000, which had a Sony-designed remote instead of the peanut. Fairly soon after that, I got a Home Theater Master universal remote.
> 
> I upgraded to a TiVo Series 2 standalone. That one did have the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.
> 
> ...


Same here.

Substitute the Universal Remotes MX-850.

I think I have 6-7 D* remotes stuffed in end tables.

Aren't peanuts for eating while watching TV?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.


Then the TiVO CEO has much explaining to do. 

He was quite animated on the topic a few weeks ago, at a major conference.

DirecTV has been quiet.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Then the TiVO CEO has much explaining to do.


Nah, it's certainly possible that they still believe it's going to happen. But I don't see it happening.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> I never liked the TiVo peanut, as it was too easy to grab it by the wrong end in a dark room and hold it upside down...


:lol: Oh that's funny. I don't know how many times I've done that. I end up cussing that the damned batteries were dead again. Or I press the buttens harder and harder until I realize that I'm pointing the remote at my belly.:lol:

While I like the TiVo interface, I also like the HR2x's. I wouldn't pay a nickel extra to use it. There would have to be somthing extra special about it. What that is, I'm not sure. :shrug:


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

While I moved away from the peanut remote to use universal remotes, other than the symmetry of the shape issue pointed out earlier, I actually liked the remote. The transport buttons in particular were very comfortably placed. Once oriented correctly in my hand, I never had to hunt for any buttons. My harmony 550 was not as easy to learn/use IMO. 

As to the SD DTivo interface, meh. It's adequate, with plusses and minuses. (Adding a Season Pass is so sloooooow. OTOH, I like the DLB implementation. YMMV.) For me and my family, it's functional and we're used to it. But a HD DTivo is not worth an additional fee to me. I'm already paying a DVR fee, thanks.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The TiVo Glo Remote has ripping on the bottom to differentiate the top from the bottom. Was wondering why I never noticed that, but just checked and it's because I replaced all mine with Glo's. Very nice remote with tactile feedback, and it's balanced a little differently as well.


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## tuff bob (Mar 5, 2007)

Is it still to be 1st half of 2010? I want to upgrade 2 receivers to HD-DVR's and I hate to use up my "hearts" and a contract extension on the HR2X series if Tivos are coming out.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RAD said:


> I anticipate that folks will not like what comes out unless it can do everything the non-D* Tivo's can do. Since DirecTV crippled their Tivo boxes when compared to the non-D* boxes before I hope they don't do it again.


I suspect you are making an assumption as to who did the crippling .. Also, anything that could be construed as illegal is likely not going to be available in a new DIRECTV TiVo (does that count as crippling?)


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

If its a whole home solution box with OTA built in would make me very happy. So anticipating.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> I suspect you are making an assumption as to who did the crippling .. Also, anything that could be construed as illegal is likely not going to be available in a new DIRECTV TiVo (does that count as crippling?)


Do I know for sure, nope, do you? But all the talk back then about why DirecTV Tivo's didn't have all the same features as the non-DirecTV Tivo boxes was being done at the request of DirecTV. As for your hacking of the code comment, not talking about that, just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RAD said:


> Do I know for sure, nope, do you? But all the talk back then about why DirecTV Tivo's didn't have all the same features as the non-DirecTV Tivo boxes was being done at the request of DirecTV. As for your hacking of the code comment, not talking about that, just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.


I don't know for sure, no but I have a pretty good idea .. Yeah, I know DIRECTV was blamed for all of it back then. I still stand by my comment.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Movieman said:


> If its a whole home solution box with OTA built in would make me very happy. So anticipating.


I'm not 100% sure, but I really do not think that built-in OTA will be included this time around.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Nah, it's certainly possible that they still believe it's going to happen. But I don't see it happening.


Listen Harsh, if you insist on stealing other users ids.....

Sorry could not resist.

I for one am looking forward to the choice. I think having Tivo in the mix will be good for the consumer no matter which you choose - then again I never thought the VS dispute would go this far, so what do I know.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> So am I gonna have 2 dish out $ for a new unit and send back my hd-dvr that I paid $200 bucks for 2 months ago or will dtv cut me a break...


BTW - Although I will get a Tivo immediately upon release, I would not recommend it. Especially in your shoes. You would be paying too much to jump ship (unless it is free and I can't believe that would happen if there is a hardware change) and you would be an early adopter. Even though there is a mature Tivo product for D*, I anticipate the normal level of new product bugs on this new model/software.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

OK...here's some anticipation...

I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).

Launch date - about April 1 2010. No April Fools Day prank.

There....stuck my neck out with my best guess.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK...here's some anticipation...
> 
> I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).
> .


I am not so sure this is anticipation as much as wishing. 4 tuners? I guess a Terabyte would make sense given four tuners. Otherwise I am not sure I would anticipate them more than doubling the storage space.

It sounds like you are describing the whole house box and not a TIVO DVR. This is a legitimate question and not sarcasm - Did I miss something in an earlier thread where the TIVO box is linked to whole house? That would be cool.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK...here's some anticipation...
> 
> I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).
> 
> ...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

!rolling!rolling!rolling


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

LarryFlowers said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> !rolling!rolling!rolling


Knew that one wouldn't last long....

I just figured I'd give the optimists something to chew on for a few pages of posts...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

tuff bob said:


> Is it still to be 1st half of 2010?


I remember hearing it was pushed back to the 2nd half, can't remember if that was an official announcement or a rumor though.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I really do not think that built-in OTA will be included this time around.


I know but we can always wish. But the 4 tuners would be awesome.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

oldfantom said:


> I am not so sure this is anticipation as much as wishing. 4 tuners? I guess a Terabyte would make sense given four tuners. Otherwise I am not sure I would anticipate them more than doubling the storage space.
> ...


The HR22's and HR23's have 500G hard drives.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

tuff bob said:


> Is it still to be 1st half of 2010? I want to upgrade 2 receivers to HD-DVR's and I hate to use up my "hearts" and a contract extension on the HR2X series if Tivos are coming out.


That's the last I heard something keeps telling me that we may see it at CES 2010.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Movieman said:


> I know but we can always wish. But the 4 tuners would be awesome.


As a feature for a whole home DVR solution perhaps. But for a single DVR to one television I really don't see it as practical particularly given the vast number of SWiMLNB installations nowadays.

Imagine half of your available tuners taken up by a one room DVR. :eek2:


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## ntwrkd (Apr 19, 2006)

Yup, That's an old R10 still workin' in my bedroom!


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> That's the last I heard something keeps telling me that we may see it at CES 2010.


If it doesn't make a showing at CES in January, then I would very much doubt we would see it available in Q1 2010.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I anticipate a news release saying Q1 10 on the 3rd quarter Tivo call and nothing about it on the DirecTV call. I anticipate a "Soon" news release about the end of February. I also anticipate more complaining about 50 SL limits a long with people missing the pop corn sounds and the buddy jesus buttons.


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## baldrick5 (Apr 1, 2008)

hopefully the new DirecTivo HD has something even standalone Tivo's don't have and pretty much every other DVR do have: a red dot (or something similar) in the listing for a program that you have scheduled to record in the guide to remind you that the upcoming program is scheduled to record......

also, hopefully the eSATA external storage isn't limited to only overpriced "Tivo Certified" external hard drives (like current standalone tivo's) and hopefully the external drives are IN ADDITION TO rather than INSTEAD OF the internal hard drive (like current HR2X's)

also, i hope it has a fully HD 16:9 GUI and all or most of the goodies from the standalone version (Netflix Watch Instantly, Amazon VOD etc.)


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ntwrkd said:


> Yup, That's an old R10 still workin' in my bedroom!


*GEEZ*...I sure hope not....mine has been sitting in a box in the closet for quite a long time.

It's past the boating season...so I don't need an anchor at the moment...

I have higher expectations for the next generation TIVObox.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

As a strong Tivo fan in the past, I'm perfectly happy with the current HR2x boxes. My Tivos were all Sonys so I never used the peanut remote and transitioned to the HR remote very quickly. I never liked the peanut remote but I also don't like remotes that I'm not use to when I visit friends.

I did like the Tivo Guide but I don't use the guide that frequently now.

Another consideration, by the time it comes out a 2TB drive may be standard. 1TBs are already under $100.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

My HR23 is fine, had a sd tivo in the past it was ok but i like the HR better. Double play seems to work fine but it isn't something i will use much,my idea of sports is like Isle of Man TT . So if i stay with Directtv i will keep the HR.


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## anywhereanytime (Oct 5, 2009)

Sorry, new to BDSTalk forum, but just spoke to DTV retentions and said we were going to cancel after 14 years with DirecTV and she said why? I replied that we had 2 TiVos and we needed to upgrade to HD ... to which she replied, well we are going to have TiVo in Jan 2010.

I said, that's been a "rumor" for far too long and how sure are you ... to which she said we have "official word".

TERRIFIC FORUM - been with AVS forever


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

To the poster here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166188

who said that DIRECTV is claiming a firm date of January 2010, I would find this quite surprising.


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## anywhereanytime (Oct 5, 2009)

From DirecTV retentions supervisor from my conversation with them YESTERDAY (10-4-2009) - I didn't get a name but they said that "THEY, i.e. "retentions" HAD official word otherwise she couldn't tell me that. When I asked for more details, she said that's all they had for now but should have more info coming shortly.

I am NOT currently under contract and refused to sign up for 2 years unless I knew for certain ... so she said my account would be noted.

When I asked about "upgrading current" HD receivers, she said that there would be "new models" but didn't know about upgading current models - told me, "wink, wink" to try to get HR23 model but they could NOT gurantee, and suggested Best Buy or other outlets. 

Oh yes, she said to I could also try and find R22 units "which were recently SOFTWARE UPGRADED to 100 hours of HD, and very few people know about it yet"! The Best Buy people told me that there is NO WAY since that unit is only 100 hours in SD. 

Any other questions, I'd be glad to pursue.


Scott


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)
> 
> 
> Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
> ...


When you mean the device will run on directv hardware, whould that be similar to comcast's tivo service. with comcast tivo you call and they initate a software download on your motorola dvr and your dvr will be running tivo.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

anywhereanytime said:


> From DirecTV retentions supervisor from my conversation with them YESTERDAY (10-4-2009) - I didn't get a name but they said that "THEY, i.e. "retentions" HAD official word otherwise she couldn't tell me that. When I asked for more details, she said that's all they had for now but should have more info coming shortly.
> 
> I am NOT currently under contract and refused to sign up for 2 years unless I knew for certain ... so she said my account would be noted.
> 
> ...


Scott,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jan 2010 is a pipe dream. Maybe later in Q1 as I've not seen anything yet to totally dispute that.

As for the R22, it includes a 320GB HDD so will only go up to 50 hours of HD. Whoever said 100 hrs of HD (MPEG4) was mistaken.


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## anywhereanytime (Oct 5, 2009)

No pipe dream - as I said, I GAVE UP tracking this whole TiVo debacle at the beginning of 2009, my last hope was that someone would BUY TiVo and make them whole again ... so I am elated that it "still "MAY HAPPEN in early 2010". We are using Microsoft Vista/Windows 7 Media Center and have been since 2003 - over 500 hours of recordings ... but that whole DirecTV "relationship" is on ice and I hate cable ... so I can wait a while longer!

Now that I recall, as I have gotten pretty good with talking to "retentions" people over the years - when I floated that I have been "solicited aggressively" by DISH "for retention deal leverage" (I hate DISH personally compared to DTV) to the DTV retention person, she was "quick to mention" as to whether I had heard about the lawsuits with TiVO and DISH ... and THAT is why DirecTV is NOT being sued!

Basically, she said that DirecTV WILL have a TiVO version in Jan 2010 ... but what's a month or two after all of these YEARS?

PS Latest "rumor" is that Verizon is sniffing around to "buy DTV" - and ATT as well - now would't that be interesting, ugly IF ATT for me!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

anywhereanytime said:


> Latest "rumor" is that Verizon is sniffing around to "buy DTV" - and ATT as well - now would't that be interesting, ugly IF ATT for me!


That's being discussed here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165637


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I remember hearing it was pushed back to the 2nd half, can't remember if that was an official announcement or a rumor though.


TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."

Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to *ship* in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.

Expect to see the same new hardware platform available with the customer's choice of the DirecTV or TiVo software. Expect both to feature similar multi-room implementations using MoCA (networking over coax) and DTCP-IP. Expect both to feature responsive HD UIs and revamped EPGs. Don't expect the new TiVo software to closely mirror past/existing TiVos.

Expect the new DVR platform to run circles around the existing HR2x series when it comes to performance / responsiveness.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

anywhereanytime said:


> Now that I recall, as I have gotten pretty good with talking to "retentions" people over the years - when I floated that I have been "solicited aggressively" by DISH "for retention deal leverage" (I hate DISH personally compared to DTV) to the DTV retention person, she was "quick to mention" as to whether I had heard about the lawsuits with TiVO and DISH ... and THAT is why DirecTV is NOT being sued!
> 
> Basically, she said that DirecTV WILL have a TiVO version in Jan 2010 ... but what's a month or two after all of these YEARS?


TiVo and DIRECTV have had a non-litigation agreement for many years now .. THAT is why DIRECTV is not being sued ..

The most recent re-negotiated agreement included the right for TiVo to create a new DIRECTV based TiVo system. This is what this whole thread is about. The original announcement was in early September 2008.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."
> 
> Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to *ship* in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.


A "wider" beta implies that there is a narrow beta now. Personally, I haven't seen anything to indicate that TiVo has even reached that point yet. Certainly they should be getting close if the new TiVo needs to hit the streets by March 31, 2009 (to make Q1).


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## anywhereanytime (Oct 5, 2009)

Ken_F said:



> TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."
> 
> Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to *ship* in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.
> 
> ...


GREAT INFO Ken_F ... This triggered "another comment that retentions told me" when I asked "WHY should I sign up NOW, rather then WAIT" since I did NOT want to get "stuck" with old equipment - even thought he HR23 was new - and she said something about "an upgrade path that may include a trade-up program like they did in the past?"

What type of "trade-up program" - do you know whether ANY of the current models "WILL be upgradable via "software" ONLY?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> When you mean the device will run on directv hardware, whould that be similar to comcast's tivo service. with comcast tivo you call and they initate a software download on your motorola dvr and your dvr will be running tivo.


I do not expect that you will be able to change an existing HR2x to a TiVo but I'll admit that I'm not 100% sure. It's just, knowing what I know, doing it over the satellite would be very very difficult if not impossible.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Certainly been much more "chatter" re: TiVo beta in last week or so.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

...and it's impossible to know if that all arises from one event: apparently those who signed up to be considered for the TiVo beta were asked to make sure their contact information was up to date. That may simply be an automated reminder.


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## anywhereanytime (Oct 5, 2009)

Is it still possible to sign up for the Beta?


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

RAD said:


> > just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.
> 
> 
> No way does Directv want the new DirecTivo to have all the features the standalone Tivo has. That would cause their DVR to look skimpy. That is very obvious. Still though...too bad Tivo cant supply their own box with satellite tuner.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's not a matter of just supplying the box. The HR2x series is actually quite similar to a TiVoHD in the hardware that matters. It's a matter, as always, of protecting the rights of the people who supply the content. 

I don't blame DIRECTV for acting to protect their digital signal to the extent that it's allowed by law.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

3 months to CES. We'll see what Tivo shows and then we'll see how far they are and how soon in 2010 it might be done.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Of course, I'm still waiting to see the Dish VIP922 from this year's CES, and let's not even discuss the several products shown at DIRECTV CES booths in past years that never materialized.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm keeping an open mind. 

The current HR2x UI on a box with 2x-3x the performance would be perfect for this household, especially if they throw in an HD GUI. 

But then again, if they take the Series3 with the current TiVo Desktop functionality, TiVo2Go, and add PIG, and support the tactile TiVo Glo well then maybe it could also be impressive. (most of this may be very unlikely but it sure will be exciting to find out ).

We'll see ...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Of course, I'm still waiting to see the Dish VIP922 from this year's CES, and let's not even discuss the several products shown at DIRECTV CES booths in past years that never materialized.


True.

Neat ideas and concepts don't always surface to the mainstream.

In the case of the next DirecTV Tivobox....there seems to be nothing to firm up a release date other than "some time in the first half of 2010".

Speculation abounds...but we're all really in "wait and see" mode.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In the case of the next DirecTV Tivobox....there seems to be nothing to firm up a release date other than "some time in the first half of 2010".


CEO: "early 2010" ... whatever that means.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> CEO: "early 2010" ... whatever that means.


Translation....not late 2010.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Then again he might mean "in the early 2010s," which could mean anytime before 2015.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

Probably unrelated, but a couple of weeks ago I got an Email from Tivo asking me to update my user profile on their beta program site. I enrolled as a beta tester for TiVo some time ago. Again it probably means nothing but it IS a fun little data point to add to this discussion.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That's what I'm saying... all the recent chatter over the new TiVo product could be due to this one e-mail, which could simply be a timed reminder that has nothing to do with development.


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.


Like DLB on the DIRECTV DVR's?


----------



## scottjf8 (Oct 5, 2006)

I can't wait for this... I absolutely hate the HR21 that I have, and the HR20 isn't a whole lot better. Response on this device is SO sluggish, and I'm tired of getting shows canceled recording due to stupid things like "no longer in the guide" or whatever. It IS in the guide, I see it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

jfalkingham said:


> Like DLB on the DIRECTV DVR's?


Hey, crap happens.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

scottjf8 said:


> I can't wait for this... I absolutely hate the HR21 that I have, and the HR20 isn't a whole lot better. Response on this device is SO sluggish, and I'm tired of getting shows canceled recording due to stupid things like "no longer in the guide" or whatever. It IS in the guide, I see it.


And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
Really?
Have you used a TiVO recently??

I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.


----------



## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

CJTE said:


> And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
> Really?
> Have you used a TiVO recently??
> 
> I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.


Have you used a recent TiVo?

The HR10-250 hardware was designed in 2002-2003 for release in October, 2003, but release was delayed until June, 2004 to address various issues. That makes the HR10-250 nearly 5.5 years old.

The HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 represent an entirely new generation of hardware with significantly faster processors. The standalone TivoHD uses the same processor as the HR21/HR22/HR23 and it is much more responsive than those products.

DirecTV's next-generation DVR -- shipping in the next six months -- will feature at least double the CPU performance of the existing products. On this hardware, the TiVo software and the DirecTV software should both run circles around the HR20.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I am curious where you got the information you put in the last line of your post.


----------



## hobiecatter (Jul 16, 2009)

Ken_F said:


> Have you used a recent TiVo?
> 
> The HR10-250 hardware was designed in 2002-2003 for release in October, 2003, but release was delayed until June, 2004 to address various issues. That makes the HR10-250 nearly 5.5 years old.
> 
> ...


next 6 months? where did you hear that?

edit: sorry didn't see Stuart asked too.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I am curious where you got the information you put in the last line of your post.


And where he gets all this this info:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2239751#post2239751
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2232236#post2232236


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Assuming that any follow-on Broadcom chip is selected, the results should be exactly as stated. 

BCM7400B (3/2007 - 1000 DMIPS) ... BCM7335 (1/2008 - 950 DMIPS) ... the latest BCM7342 (9/2009) ... they all blow the doors off the BCM7401 (8/2005 - 450 DMIPS).

Three assumptions: 1) there will be a new box, 2) it will contain a later Broadcom processor, and 3) it ships in the next 6 months.

All seem very reasonable assumptions.

And I always respect Ken_F's opinion, and expertise.


----------



## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

CJTE said:


> And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
> Really?
> Have you used a TiVO recently??
> 
> I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.


I use HR10-250s exclusively now. Running recent software versions, they are much, much faster than the HR21-100 and (to a lesser extent) the HR20-100 that they replaced. The HR21-100 was the most infuriating piece of electronic equipment that I ever used due to it's slowness. And those HR10-250s were designed and built, what, about 5 years earlier than the HR2x series? I've never seen any issues with slowness on standalone Series 2 or 3 Tivos either.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect the new Tivobox will have updated internal organs in it, as well as a larger hard drive....those would be reasonable assumptions, merely based on it being newer to start with.

What we do know is that the hardware will be commissioned / built per DirecTV, and the firmware provided from Tivo.

Anything else is speculation....but that can be fun too.


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

whitepelican said:


> I use HR10-250s exclusively now. Running recent software versions, they are much, much faster than the HR21-100 and (to a lesser extent) the HR20-100 that they replaced. The HR21-100 was the most infuriating piece of electronic equipment that I ever used due to it's slowness. And those HR10-250s were designed and built, what, about 5 years earlier than the HR2x series? I've never seen any issues with slowness on standalone Series 2 or 3 Tivos either.


Though my HR10-250 can _sometimes_ be faster than my HR20-700/HR23-700, my TiVo Series 3 is, more times than not, faster than my HR2x series DVRs.



Ken_F said:


> DirecTV's next-generation DVR -- shipping in the next six months -- will feature at least double the CPU performance of the existing products. On this hardware, the TiVo software and the DirecTV software should both run circles around the HR20.


Fascinating...

~Alan


----------



## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

People talk about the slowness of the older TiVos, but I must say I was never bothered by the slowness of the DVR80s I had. The units never got unresponsive, and remote presses always registered and if they got queued (rarely) they all were processed. The biggest difference in the slowness of my HR22s compared to the DVR80s is in the fact that the HR22s aren't consistent. The DVR80s always worked at the same pace regardless of what was happening whereas the HR22s sometimes respond quickly, sometimes not, sometimes not at all. On the whole the HR22 is quicker, but in practice the fact that it doesn't always work at the same pace means that I'll repress a key when in fact it was queued or I'll wait for something that won't happen. I know the receiver got the command because of the light, but the responsiveness varies.

I'd rather have a consistent machine than a sometimes quick, sometimes not machine.

I do want to note that the HR22s aren't _unuseable_ because of it, but it's not as smooth as the DVR80s were where I could hit a bunch of commands in a row and just know that every command would register and work properly even if I managed to press keys faster than the machine could respond.

Tony


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Hey, crap happens.


So will the new 2010 HD DirecTivo.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> So will the new 2010 HD DirecTivo.


Allegedly  We still haven't seen it yet


----------



## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

Will these be owned or leased receivers?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's way too early to know.


----------



## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

SParker said:


> Will these be owned or leased receivers?


I'd be willing to bet they will be.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

SParker said:


> Will these be owned or leased receivers?





whitepelican said:


> I'd be willing to bet they will be.


Is that a sucker bet?


----------



## pinballfan (Sep 28, 2007)

Steve said:


> Has anyone used a Comcast DVR that is now running TiVo software? Does it use the old remote, or a new one?


I used to have one of the Comcast/Tivo boxes. It had a custom Comcast peanut remote. It was similar to the other various peanut remotes. They had a few extra buttons, eg "On Demand", A (yellow triangle), B(blue square), C(red circle), and D(green diamond).

-- Doug


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

SParker said:


> Will these be owned or leased receivers?


Back when I first heard about the agreement, it seemed that these units would be in minor-production. Meaning there would be hundreds of them available, but not as available as the other units running DirecTV's firmware.
That would make me believe that these units would be more of a niche item that the consumer would have to pay more for and therefore own (like whichever HDDVR unit has a 'PRO' brother).
However, I have absolutely no solid evidence of any of that.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Back when I first heard about the agreement, it seemed that these units would be in minor-production.


But now, all information points to the Tivo software running on the same hardware as the DirecTV software. So the hardware will be mass produced.


----------



## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

So who thinks DirecTV will be sending out Dual Boot units?! hahahahahahaha!

Or better yet, can I run Tivo on an eSATA HDD and leave DirecTV on the internal HDD?


----------



## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

CJTE said:


> So who thinks DirecTV will be sending out Dual Boot units?! hahahahahahaha!
> 
> Or better yet, can I run Tivo on an eSATA HDD and leave DirecTV on the internal HDD?


If there's one TiVo feature I _really_ want it's the way they handle external storage. If you're unfamiliar, they "marry" the eSATA to the unit and then *all* of the HDD space is available, internal and external. None of this quasi-eSATA support the HR2xs have. So no, I definitely do not want dual-boot (which would never happen anyway), I want the ability to cheaply make a 2-3TB machine by just plugging in an eSATA.

Tony


----------



## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Hey, crap happens.


Wouldn't the correct term be, "Feces occurs"?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

pinballfan said:


> I used to have one of the Comcast/Tivo boxes. It had a custom Comcast peanut remote. It was similar to the other various peanut remotes. They had a few extra buttons, eg "On Demand", A (yellow triangle), B(blue square), C(red circle), and D(green diamond).


Interesting. If they are going to provide a "peanut", I suppose they'll need an ACTIVE button , and a RED for SCOREGUIDE. I guess the need to add the other color buttons will depend on how TiVo decides to implement the current color options.


----------



## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> But now, all information points to the Tivo software running on the same hardware as the DirecTV software. So the hardware will be mass produced.


During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.

What's not known is whether it will be possible to switch from one software to the other. TiVo remains ambiguous on that subject, with comments like, "the software will be available to every customer that buys the DirecTV Plus DVR" (paraphrase). That statement can have several meanings.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

What I do know is that there are very large hurdles that would make it very difficult to change an HR2x to a TiVo on-site. So large that I am not sure that you could get past them.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

Does Tivo have any other units where the OS actually runs off a chip instead of the drive? Wouldn't that have to be the case if they were to use the same hardware as the HR2x (or HR3x or whatever)?


----------



## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

dodge boy said:


> Wouldn't the correct term be, "Feces occurs"?


Nope, "Dung arises" :grin:


----------



## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.
> 
> What's not known is whether it will be possible to switch from one software to the other. TiVo remains ambiguous on that subject, with comments like, "the software will be available to every customer that buys the DirecTV Plus DVR" (paraphrase). That statement can have several meanings.


Tivo's software would have to be written in such away to make it compatable with D's hardware.... So I do not think it would be the "same" software they currently write.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Ken_F said:


> During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.


Yup....and "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform" can indeed mean current or future hardware.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Hdhead said:


> Nope, "Dung arises" :grin:


I don't want to be around when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator

or this post could be an exorcise in bovine scatology....


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dodge boy said:


> I don't want to be around when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator
> 
> or this post could be an exorcise in bovine scatology....


Ok, I think we can stop the scat crap. Let's get back to the TiVo in 2010 topic. :backtotop.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> Does Tivo have any other units where the OS actually runs off a chip instead of the drive? Wouldn't that have to be the case if they were to use the same hardware as the HR2x (or HR3x or whatever)?


I'm sure there are ways to connect the dots here. What I do see as being an almost certainty is that this version of the DIRECTiVo will be much less hackable.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm sure there are ways to connect the dots here. What I do see as being an almost certainty is that this version of the DIRECTiVo will be much less hackable.


There would really be no reason to hack it if it has all the goodies of a Series 3 Tivo. There's really no good reason to hack the Series 3's at this point.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess it has gone without saying long enough... there's no guarantee that a DIRECTV-based TiVo would have any of the interactive features of a standalone.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> What I do know is that there are very large hurdles that would make it very difficult to change an HR2x to a TiVo on-site. So large that I am not sure that you could get past them.


Obviously changing an HR2x is essentially out of the question. But I was referring to an HR3x(?) which was designed for both platforms from the start.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You're hypothesizing, or you know something that I have no reason to believe you know.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You're hypothesizing


I thought that was pretty clear?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Obviously changing an HR2x is essentially out of the question. But I was referring to an HR3x(?) which was designed for both platforms from the start.


Perhaps you may wish to phrase it more like, "I was referring to an HR3x(?) which _may be_ designed for both platforms from the start." The funny thing about forum posts is, one statement gets misunderstood, leading to another getting overstated, and the next thing you know, everybody "knows" something that simply isn't true.

For the record, I was told by a very reliable source that the same reference design was used for both HR2x and S3TiVo/TivoHD families. This source would have every reason to know that. It's been shown through pictures of the motherboards that many of the key components are identical.

So, you could almost say that HR2x DVRs were designed for both platforms at the start. _Almost._


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Perhaps you may wish to phrase it more like, "I was referring to an HR3x(?) which _may be_ designed for both platforms from the start."


I see your point, but that's just not how I speak. When I'm talking about a hypothetical product, I just assume that everyone knows that I'm speaking about hypothetical features.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Assumptions are easy to make, and it's just as easy to misquote someone when you think they've got privileged information.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Assumptions are easy to make, and it's just as easy to misquote someone when you think they've got privileged information.


Because who knows who knows what around here!!!!
hahaha!!

I'm curious if you can elaborate on the hurdles that you were referring to above or if that digs too deep into the 'confidentiality agreement'


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Random thought and question: The previous generations of TiVo DVRs required drives to be pre-formatted with TiVo software before they could be recognized, while the current HR2x DVR will format a new drive, making the HR2x easier the product for users to increase their storage. Will the new DIRECTV with TiVo HD DVR support plug-and-play eSATA drives?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Random thought and question: The previous generations of TiVo DVRs required drives to be pre-formatted with TiVo software before they could be recognized, while the current HR2x DVR will format a new drive, making the HR2x easier the product for users to increase their storage. Will the new DIRECTV with TiVo HD DVR support plug-and-play eSATA drives?


The current Tivos don't require any special formatting, so I can't imagine why a new DirecTivo would.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The current Tivos don't require any special formatting, so I can't imagine why a new DirecTivo would.


They don't require any special formatting but you do have to use something like WinMFS to copy the image versus just dropping a new drive in the Tivo.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It's unclear what drive-spec features the DIRECTiVo will have, but sure, if the TiVo puts the firmware on-chip like the HR2x, don't see any reason why they couldn't include some sort of format routine.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Brennok said:


> They don't require any special formatting but you do have to use something like WinMFS to copy the image versus just dropping a new drive in the Tivo.


I was referring to the *current* Tivos with eSATA.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I was referring to the *current* Tivos with eSATA.


Ahh I missed the esata part. I thought he was talking about being able to just replace the internal drive and have Tivo reinstall their software versus copying the image. Isn't that how the DTV's HD DVRs handle drive replacement?

I haven't played with esata on my Tivo HDs since I just upgraded them internally to 1tb and have it set to copy shows to my PC if they are still on the Tivo after so many hours/days.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

i just want 2 b a beta tester for the new TiVo so i can get 1 now! i can't wait 4 the new 1 2 b released!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

alwayscool said:


> i just want 2 b a beta tester for the new TiVo so i can get 1 now! i can't wait 4 the new 1 2 b released!


to be one for one to be

Wow.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm sure the TiVo and DirecTV engineers are already looking forward to reading those tester reports.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I received an email from TIVO a few weeks ago. It was a survey for potential beta testers, asking me how many HRxs and hr10-250's I was presently using, and asking for updated contact info. I haven't heard anything since, but I would really enjoy beta testing the new HD-Directivo.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

jal said:


> I would really enjoy beta testing the new HD-Directivo.


Same here!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> It's unclear what drive-spec features the DIRECTiVo will have, but sure, if the TiVo puts the firmware on-chip like the HR2x, don't see any reason why they couldn't include some sort of format routine.


That would make alot of sense on multiple fronts...updating and enhancing in the future, as well as the flexibility to make "changes" as needed.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That would make alot of sense on multiple fronts...updating and enhancing in the future, as well as the flexibility to make "changes" as needed.


It would also require vast changes to their architecture, unless they want to put rather large amounts of flash memory into each device. I forget how big the HR2x software is, but it's an order of magnitude smaller than Tivo's software.


----------



## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Even though I now have 2 DVR's giving me 4 tuners today I was using DP and a recording came on. It required DP to be turned off for an hour which was ok cause I was stuck on one game but with 4 tuners on one STB (assuming this would be part of the new Tivo) would have been nice to keep watching my games and have the recording on the background. I also could have cancelled the recording and just record in the bedroom DVR but dont like watching tv there much.


----------



## Chip Moody (Aug 1, 2007)

Anticipating...

...especially now that my S2 Tivo is waiting for it's 3rd power supply. 

(Yes, I use a SD Tivo to record my HD programming. Sue me.)  There just was never enough benefit to going through the hassle of replacing what I already had for an HD DVR that DirecTV was going to make me lease. Getting one with a Tivo interface might be enough to push me over the edge though.

- Chip


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Chip Moody said:


> There just was never enough benefit to going through the hassle of replacing what I already had for an HD DVR that DirecTV was going to make me lease. Getting one with a Tivo interface might be enough to push me over the edge though.
> 
> - Chip


LOL. And the new HD DirecTivo will be a lease too. Get over the lease thing, it's what DirecTV does and has done for going on 5 years now.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Chip Moody said:


> Anticipating...
> 
> ...especially now that my S2 Tivo is waiting for it's 3rd power supply.
> 
> ...


Plus I'd have to say you've missed an AWFUL lot of awesome HD programming. . .


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

dennisj00 said:


> Plus I'd have to say you've missed an AWFUL lot of awesome HD programming. . .


...or maybe he gets good OTA reception and gets 80% of everything he'd watch in HD for free.

In my case, I'd had 2 DTivos for the last 7+ years. One died in June, but I have a HTPC in the bedroom that I can get plenty of programming for use there. (LA area 30+ OTA stations) I've been commitment free for years now, and haven't seen a good enough deal offered to get me to add a HD DVR to re-up. (Best I've been offered is the $99 on website.) I'm hoping to get another couple of years out of our last SDTivo to make it to the next generation of D*s DVRs.

I won't pay an upcharge for a HD Dtivo, but I hope the alternative will make D* a bit more competitive when they come out with the HR3x.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

I have only read a couple of pages of this 6 page thread. Are we still anticipating? I am. Just wanted to know if there is still a buzz.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> I have only read a couple of pages of this 6 page thread. Are we still anticipating? I am. Just wanted to know if there is still a buzz.


Since the public statements are now all saying 2010, I wonder if we'll see or hear more in January, at CES?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Steve said:


> Since the public statements are now all saying 2010, I wonder if we'll see or hear more in January, at CES?


Assuming TiVo is at CES 2010, would be very surprised if unit not mentioned.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

how does one apply to become a beta tester?


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

If you do a google search they have a site you can register to. They will ask you a series of questions relating to what type of media equipment you currently have. (satellite/cable, what STB you have now, etc.). From there I guess you have to wait to be contacted.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I truly wish the TiVotees good luck in having a new MPEG4 DIRECTV TiVo DVR next year ... if one fell my way I'd be happy to use it, test it and report my findings, but I feel quite content without. You most often see it with cars, phones and mp3 players, but I'm always amazed that anyone ever can love a product so much that anything else will never do. I had TiVo from 2003 to early this year and at one time had that "love" for it that many still have, but in 2007 I got my first HR20 and I haven't looked back. I'm now "in love" with my HR2X and can't see me going back to the TiVo guy... but I won't ever close the door all the way!


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> I truly wish the TiVotees good luck in having a new MPEG4 DIRECTV TiVo DVR next year ... if one fell my way I'd be happy to use it, test it and report my findings, but I feel quite content without. You most often see it with cars, phones and mp3 players, but I'm always amazed that anyone ever can love a product so much that anything else will never do. I had TiVo from 2003 to early this year and at one time had that "love" for it that many still have, but in 2007 I got my first HR20 and I haven't looked back. I'm now "in love" with my HR2X and can't see me going back to the TiVo guy... but I won't ever close the door all the way!


Well said. 

I loved "TiVo" too... but it turns out I really loved the DVR experience for both recording and live watching, not the particular brand. Thankfully, I do understand people can love brands for many reasons. So I also hope the TiVotees (great word!) have a happy experience with a new DIRECTIVO. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## tuff bob (Mar 5, 2007)

Movieman said:


> If you do a google search they have a site you can register to. They will ask you a series of questions relating to what type of media equipment you currently have. (satellite/cable, what STB you have now, etc.). From there I guess you have to wait to be contacted.


Can you give me a hint? I can't wait for a working HD-DVR


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Assuming TiVo is at CES 2010, would be very surprised if unit not mentioned.


Given TiVo's somewhat embarrassing showing at CES 2009, I'm not sure that's a given. They were in an out-of-the-way meeting room with nothing new to talk about except the ability to order Domino's Pizza with the remote.

I hope they have more to talk about at CES 2010 but they haven't seemed to focus on the DIRECTV box a lot in their marketing in 2009.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Given TiVo's somewhat embarrassing showing at CES 2009, I'm not sure that's a given. They were in an out-of-the-way meeting room with nothing new to talk about except the ability to order Domino's Pizza with the remote.
> 
> I hope they have more to talk about at CES 2010 but they haven't seemed to focus on the DIRECTV box a lot in their marketing in 2009.


Yep, with the TiVo CEO highlighting DirecTV recently, and commenting "early 2010" several times, figured 2010 CES seems near "early 2010".


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

I just hope its not 4th quarter 2010 or i could be gone by then to fios. or i'll just buy a hd-tivo i also have a feeling tivo will come out with a new hd box for cable by then also.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

celticpride said:


> I just hope its not 4th quarter 2010 or i could be *gone by then to fios.* or i'll just buy a hd-tivo i also have a feeling tivo will come out with a new hd box for cable by then also.


No more of you Celtics in HD through LP unless it's the 1 HD game they do that night.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Yep, with the TiVo CEO highlighting DirecTV recently, and commenting "early 2010" several times, figured 2010 CES seems near "early 2010".


I just hope for the sake of those here that "early 2010" is correct and "the early 2010s" isn't...


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> No more of you Celtics in HD through LP unless it's the 1 HD game they do that night.


Love your avatar. :lol:


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Steve said:


> :lol:
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who _loved _both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:


then that would be a minority of two!


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I just hope for the sake of those here that "early 2010" is correct and "the early 2010s" isn't...


You think there is a possibility they will go Duke Nukem Forever on us?

As with many things, I find myself having fond memories of an old product. Bad memories of a new product launch. And a nostalgic desire to go back to the good times.

I guess this is a lot like Vista. Maybe it is a better software product now than it was when I installed it. But that bad startup made me a Mac guy after about 20 years of Microsoft OS ownership.

The way I see it, the HR was not a good product when I got it. Still has a lot of little nuisance issues. And the slow roll out of features to make it better has been unsatisfying. I still think the history feature is a joke. Working with recordings is not as easy as it should be. Having to create boolean search stings for season passes to get around 50 season pass limitations is ridiculous (and don't get me started on the new bug with that "feature"). Giving me the double play this late in the game is a little too late. To give credit, it does record about 95% of what it should now. And that is a better percentage than what we used to get.

I know that D* could care less. After all, they get theirs no matter which box I choose. But I am switching when the Tivo box appears. The slow march of the HR boxes to adequacy is just not good enough.


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)




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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> You think there is a possibility they will go Duke Nukem Forever on us?


They've already delayed it once (twice?) and have released zero details about it.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> They've already delayed it once (twice?) and have released zero details about it.


Well, if it drags on for 12 years before being killed....

Two delays with an update of sometime in early 2010 is not quite to that level yet.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> Two delays with an update of sometime in early 2010 is not quite to that level yet.


Agreed. But they have started down that path.


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## Chip Moody (Aug 1, 2007)

Umm. Hmm. Both HD receivers I have are leased, so I guess I'm already over the lease thing huh?

Sorry if you mis-read or I wasn't clear enough. I don't mind leasing another box. Right now I've got a leased receiver attached to my Tivo - I just would prefer to do a new lease with hardware running a Tivo UI than DirecTV's, that's all.

- Chip



bonscott87 said:


> LOL. And the new HD DirecTivo will be a lease too. Get over the lease thing, it's what DirecTV does and has done for going on 5 years now.


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## HiDefGator (Nov 20, 2005)

I understand the anticipation. But after having owned more than one recently released DVR from Replay, Tivo, and Directv; I can wait a few months after they come out before getting one. Not sure I could put up with the wife complaining about buggy software again.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Chip Moody said:


> Umm. Hmm. Both HD receivers I have are leased, so I guess I'm already over the lease thing huh?
> 
> Sorry if you mis-read or I wasn't clear enough. I don't mind leasing another box. Right now I've got a leased receiver attached to my Tivo - I just would prefer to do a new lease with hardware running a Tivo UI than DirecTV's, that's all.
> 
> - Chip


My misunderstanding. Your post sounded like you were waiting for the HD DirecTivo so that you wouldn't have to lease an HR2x anymore, figuring you'd own the DirecTivo like in the old days. I was just pointing out that was probably not going to be the case, leases all around. My mistake.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah, while anything is possible, I would be very, very surprised if the new TiVo boxes were owned .. I expect DIRECTV to continue the lease arrangement as I believe it will be DIRECTV that is doing the distribution, not TiVo.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

From the new DirecTV answer center:

_We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:

Access to over 130 HD channels 
DIRECTV on DEMAND capability 
TiVo's Universal Swivel Search 
TiVo's KidZone 
We expect the new receiver to launch in 2010 and we will provide more information as soon as it is available. To receive updates on the new TiVo HD DVR, sign up at http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/directv-signup.html._

Source: http://support.directv.com/app/home/search/1/session?CMP=EMC-MQ-SC&ATT=120-E6-ANC-091029final&m=


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

codespy said:


> From the new DirecTV answer center:
> 
> _We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:
> 
> ...


Thanks. Pretty much what was announced in the initial press release over a year ago so nothing new. But good to see it actually on their site.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

I hope this new puppy has at least:

1) 4-TUNERS w/OTA capabilities
2) 1TB green-powered HD
3) True 16x9 HD UI

It would also be nice if it included the TivoToGo functionality, but i'm sure D* is scared of DRM ramifications.


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## JayB (Mar 19, 2007)

texasmoose said:


> I hope this new puppy has at least a 1TB green powered HD & 4 tuners on board with OTA capabilities & a true 16x9 HD UI!


And a pony - it's gotta have a pony!  (by which I mean it's highly unlikely - the 1TB and 4 tuners especially, and probably OTA IMO)


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## wildbill129 (Dec 22, 2006)

JayB said:


> And a pony - it's gotta have a pony!


:goodjob:Cheers to you for that one....that gave me a laugh!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

texasmoose said:


> I hope this new puppy has at least a 1TB green powered HD & 4 tuners on board with OTA capabilities & a true 16x9 HD UI!


Of course anything is possible but I'd consider much of that to be highly, highly unlikely.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Of course anything is possible but I'd consider much of that to be highly, highly unlikely.


why would any of that be unlikely???

1TB HD ????? that pretty easy. I would actually hope for a 2TB HD and only be happy with a 1TB. Anything less than 1TB on a new box is a disservice to the user.

HD GUI -- others are already kinda doing it, why would that be out of the question with a new cutting edge technology?

4 tuners --- Wasn't DTV already talking about making a home central box a couple of years ago? If it can be done there why not now? As far as OTA i'll I will say as long as it scans....LOL

I know it comes down to what price point DTV wants to match to implement any of this, but to say its highly highly unlikely to get any of that is far fetched. Its not like he he was asking for 4TB HD, Ability to record 10 shows at once with a 3D gui that you don't have to wear special glasses for.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Why not make it swm only and use 8 tuners on one cable? Can be done.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Hope that I can MRV between my Tivo HD and the D Tivo too


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ffemtreed said:


> why would any of that be unlikely???
> 
> 1TB HD ????? that pretty easy. I would actually hope for a 2TB HD and only be happy with a 1TB. Anything less than 1TB on a new box is a disservice to the user.
> 
> ...


Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

usnret said:


> Hope that I can MRV between my Tivo HD and the D Tivo too


I have a feeling that DirecTV will require that to be the case.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.


I've heard the new TiVo will have the next generation "Broadcom" chip, not like the one that's in the current HRxx/TiVo HD boxes. More comparable to the one that's featured in Dish's forthcoming VIP 922 unit.


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## spec2 (Oct 1, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.


Unless DTV expects to phase out their DVRs and go back to TiVo exclusively. Keep in mind that the DTV DVR was the brainchild of Newscorp back when they owned DTV. The DTV DVRs have proven to be craptastic and I'm sure they have lost a few new subs so why not dump it for a proven winner like TiVo?

That said, I do expect the DTV TiVos to be dumbed down from the SA TiVos.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Fortunately the numbers do not support your premise. DIRECTV has gained more subs and more market share in the past 3 years. All on the HR series.

Have some subs left for TiVo waters elsewhere? Sure, we've seen a few posts about that. But all in all, that is a drop in the swimming pool. 

I don't expect the HR family to go away at any time. Remember the TiVo units are expected to be an extra charge item. I'm not planning on paying extra for them. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

texasmoose said:


> I've heard the new TiVo will have the next generation "Broadcom" chip, not like the one that's in the current HRxx/TiVo HD boxes. More comparable to the one that's featured in Dish's forthcoming VIP 922 unit.


According to the announcement last fall, the new DirecTiVo's will run on the same hardware as at least one of the HD DVR's. That could be an existing model or a new model. If a new model, the faster chip will benefit both platforms.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> [...] Remember the TiVo units are expected to be an extra charge item. I'm not planning on paying extra for them.


I wonder if those of us with "lifetime" service will have to pay any extra charges? If not, I'm leaning the same way as Tom. I'm happy with my 6 HR's, but it might be fun to have one DirecTiVo... just to play with.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Steve said:


> I wonder if those of us with "lifetime" service will have to pay any extra charges? If not, I'm leaning the same way as Tom. I'm happy with my 6 HR's, but it might be fun to have one DirecTiVo... just to play with.


Many HR2x owners will want to upgrade to the new DVR platform for reasons that will become obvious in several months. At that point, they'll have to decide whether they want the DirecTV or TiVo software.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> Many HR2x owners will want to upgrade to the new DVR platform for reasons that will become obvious in several months. At that point, they'll have to decide whether they want the DirecTV or TiVo software.


So you believe it will be "either/or", with no ability to have one or more of each, if that's what someone wants? Curious why.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

spec2 said:


> Unless DTV expects to phase out their DVRs and go back to TiVo exclusively. Keep in mind that the DTV DVR was the brainchild of Newscorp back when they owned DTV. The DTV DVRs have proven to be craptastic and I'm sure they have lost a few new subs so why not dump it for a proven winner like TiVo?
> 
> That said, I do expect the DTV TiVos to be dumbed down from the SA TiVos.


 Where did you pull this information from..???? Personal opinion and "proven to be" are two VERY different things.

I personally have had 2 TIVO unit crap out after 6 months, so I guess that means TIVO is "proven to be craptastic" ? Not hardly.. but I wouldn't get one because of my personal experience.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Steve said:


> So you believe it will be "either/or", with no ability to have one or more of each


I didn't say that.

Some in this thread state that they are satisfied with HR2x and have no intention of buying a new box just to get the TiVo software. My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software. And once they upgrade, they'll have to decide what software they want.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> I didn't say that.
> 
> Some in this thread state that they are satisfied with HR2x and have no intention of buying a new box just to get the TiVo software. My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software. And once they upgrade, they'll have to decide what software they want.


Gotcha. Misunderstood your first post.  I read it as there might be some marketing or technical reason you _couldn't_ have both, like maybe both releases couldn't peacefully co-exist on the same home network, e.g. I see your point if it will be a new box... you'll need to order it one way or the other.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ken_F said:


> My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software.


Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading. This has nothing to do with HR versus Tivo - it applies to anything. I don't upgrade just because something newer comes along.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

carl6 said:


> Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading. This has nothing to do with HR versus Tivo - it applies to anything. *I don't upgrade just because something newer comes along.*


but many do and, if I understand Ken F right, this is what might be happening. people upgrading just to have latest and greatest.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading.


I think the point Ken_F is trying to make is that the new box(es) will have compelling new features that the current boxes won't be getting, and that will entice people into upgrading.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I think the point Ken_F is trying to make is that the new box(es) will have compelling new features that the current boxes won't be getting, and that will entice people into upgrading.


It will be interesting to see what the new HD DirecTivo offers. However in my personal case, I doubt there would be anything that compelling. But then I am not a fan of the Tivo GUI, Menu structure, or suggestions (which is not meant to take anything away from those that are, we each have our preferences). That may well be compelling enough for some to make the change.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'd really be surprised to see a mass move away from the HD DVR as it exists today. Maybe SD or standalone subscribers will see an opportunity to move up, but I think most people will find the HD DVR to TiVo to be a lateral move meaning most won't do it .. but yeah, some will.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think, as I said before, that it's great to have choice. I'm having trouble imagining a case where my choice would be moving back to TiVo.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think, as I said before, that it's great to have choice. *I'm having trouble imagining a case where my choice would be moving back to TiVo.*


same here, however I cannot absolutely rule it out until I hear from others how it works.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I'd really be surprised to see a mass move away from the HD DVR as it exists today. Maybe SD or standalone subscribers will see an opportunity to move up, but I think most people will find the HD DVR to TiVo to be a lateral move meaning most won't do it .. but yeah, some will.


I want to see 3 or more tuners in a box.


----------



## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

I would love to have the delete recovery that TiVo has with their software. Now whether the "thumbs up/down" buttons would be useful in D* land is something to see.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

For me it is simple: If I can pull my shows from the DirecTiVO to my Mac or Windows PC like I can from my Series 2 TiVO, I'll pay any amount (within reason). If I can't, I won't pay 10 bucks for one. It's that simple.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

It just seems that Tivo had a lot of features I have learned to live without. I liked the suggestions. I had them turned off for a long time and only started using them at the end. I forgot about undelete. 

The long and short is that I want to add a DVR and, at this point, I will wait and make that next dvr a Tivo. If it is significantly better, I will upgrade my two HR20-xxx boxes. "Significantly better" is a sliding scale based upon features v. cost.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CorpITGuy said:


> For me it is simple: If I can pull my shows from the DirecTiVO to my Mac or Windows PC like I can from my Series 2 TiVO, I'll pay any amount (within reason). If I can't, I won't pay 10 bucks for one. It's that simple.


I think we can pretty much guarantee that isn't going to happen, ever. DirecTV will not allow it, DRM and all that.


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I think we can pretty much guarantee that isn't going to happen, ever. DirecTV will not allow it, DRM and all that.


I remember many people saying something else wasnt gonna happen again...ever. Then Directv and Tivo jumped back into bed together.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mp11 said:


> I remember many people saying something else wasnt gonna happen again...ever. Then Directv and Tivo jumped back into bed together.


So you think that DRM issues won't be an issue?


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

If TiVo manages to do this with TiVoToGo, with a DRM system accepted by CableLabs, why couldn't a DirecTV TiVo do it?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

sbl said:


> If TiVo manages to do this with TiVoToGo, with a DRM system accepted by CableLabs, why couldn't a DirecTV TiVo do it?


As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2009)

Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.


There are no details .. The device has not been released yet and nothing regarding pricing has been announced.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.


My sense, purely from the public documents, is the monthly fees will be more than for the HR2x family, and I'm expecting it to be less than the Stand Alone TiVo fees. While I don't have a sense of what the number will be, at least that might give us a range.

Cheers,
Tom


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.


I tend to agree with sbl, it's not something that TiVoHD can't do with its HD content, I can't see why DirecTV would have a problem with it in their implementation.

To throw a bone to the DirecTV DVR fans, they do have a point. Slapping on the TiVo name and stripping out everything that makes a TiVo cool will not make anyone want to pay more for a TiVo. While DirecTV did this in the past (and I know that there is dispute over whose side it was that prevented the good S2 stuff from coming to the DirecTiVos) I'm sure that both sides now understand the importance of adding value alongside the higher price. Stuff like Netflix I can _kind of_ understand being left out (though not really as I doubt Netflix subs really would use DirecTV On Demand any more or less if Netflix is in the box as there isn't a lot of overlap between the two services), and Amazon VOD is certainly a no-go in my opinion. I think it's likely there will be changes to TiVo's streaming between boxes to make it work with existing DirecTV hardware, but TiVo2Go should be among the priorities in features that come with the new box.

They've apparently already said KidZone will be included, but really that plus a TiVo UI is not enough differentiation.

Tony


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

kiljoy said:


> They've apparently already said KidZone will be included, but really that plus a TiVo UI is not enough differentiation.


But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.


DRM is maintained, but you can still burn to DVD, convert to iPhone/iTunes, etc.

It's just like iTunes music/movies with DRM.

And, it works fine with my standalone Series 2 TiVO that I have hooked up to a D12 receiver. No hacking necessary. Nothing illegal about it.  I do worry, though, that D*'s deals with content providers aren't very good, as TiVO does not require those same deals to sell a third party DVR for cable TV service.


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies.


As a die-hard Tivotee, the TiVo UI is enough for me and is what makes the difference, but I'm not under the illusion that it can carry the day for everyone or that it even should.

Apple's iPod is about the only exception to the rule that you have to do more than offer a brand and a tight UI to charge more for something but its competitors aren't giving away their products.

Tony


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> ... But the die hard Tivoites think it is... I've always contended the UI matters not; it's the features. And to Joe Sixpack it's simply "does it record and play back" because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies.


It's insulting to call those of us who miss having a functional DVR "die hard Tivoites."

Here's a partial list of my outstanding issues with my HR21. All of them seem to me to be UI problems. None of them are problems on my HR10.

• Series Links are limited to 50.
• Keyword Autorecord SLs that specify "First Run Only" record reruns too.
• Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.
• Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.
• Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning.
• Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days.
• Autocorrection after FF (and Pause!) goes way too far backwards.
• In general, menus and lists don't remember where you were; and there's no way to go quickly to the top or bottom of a list.
• Too many keypresses are required to get to the To Do List, the Prioritizer, and Manual recording.


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

I'd answer that by saying that for some the improved featureset over prior TiVo implementations overcomes what they feel are minor inconveniences that are natural to migrating to a different platform.

I don't like most of the stuff your list either and I think TiVo's UI is wonderful, but I can see where some would rather have something different.

And it's "TiVotees", like "devotees".

Tony


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> [...]To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies.


I agree that all Joe Sixpack wants to do is record and playback, but I disagree that the UI doesn't matter to him. The less technically sophisticated the user, the more intuitive the UI needs to be. I'm basing this on many years of application development feedback that I've observed.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

kiljoy said:


> I'd answer that by saying that for some the improved featureset over prior TiVo implementations overcomes what they feel are minor inconveniences that are natural to migrating to a different platform.
> 
> I don't like most of the stuff your list either and I think TiVo's UI is wonderful, but I can see where some would rather have something different.
> 
> ...


What about TiVoter?

Would that be like Trekkie vs. Trekker?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm not sure what non-derogatory term to use for TiVo afficionados. Most of the terms I hear are sort of negative.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CorpITGuy said:


> And, it works fine with my standalone Series 2 TiVO that I have hooked up to a D12 receiver.


A connection between a D12 and a SD TiVo isn't a concern as you're stepping outside the digital domain in sending the content using a non-digital connection between the two devices.

A TiVo enabled satellite receiver is an entirely different can of worms as it affords a 100% faithful digital copy of the content. The principles of the "analog hole" do not apply inside a satellite DVR.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm not sure what non-derogatory term to use for TiVo afficionados. Most of the terms I hear are sort of negative.


I often suggest (and use myself) "TiVotees"?

note: "TiVotees" first appeared on DBSTalk in a post by raj2001 in March of 2003.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'd say this is one of the first references to TiVotee (although there were likely earlier ones):

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=279448#post279448


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> So you think that DRM issues won't be an issue?


I think that if people who are waiting for this Tivo go into this with eyes wide open, expecting only a fraction of the features in the standalone Tivo...they wont be too disappointed.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

I will be glad to respond item by item.



Syzygy said:


> • Series Links are limited to 50.


Yes, this was a bone-headed design flaw. I have yet to run into it as a problem myself but I can see where it would be an issue for some. DirecTV's fault.


Syzygy said:


> • Keyword Autorecord SLs that specify "First Run Only" record reruns too.


I have no experience with this one but I can see where it would be annoying. I tend to use autorecord only for movies or sporting events, so it would not apply for me. There might be a keyword that would help with this.


Syzygy said:


> • Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.


Press and hold was a stupid idea. It rarely works. I pretend the unit can't do slow-motion because it never works out correctly.


Syzygy said:


> • Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.


You need to read up on how to do keyword searches that don't include these. Adding *NNOT PPV* does wonders to most keyword searches.


Syzygy said:


> • Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.


Like above, use the CCHAN keyword in your search.


Syzygy said:


> • Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning.


This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list.


Syzygy said:


> • Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days.


This is because the guide data is not always available that far in advance. Look for a show that is two weeks out. It will likely have no data even though the guide goes that far. It is hard to search for data that is not yet present.


Syzygy said:


> • Autocorrection after FF (and Pause!) goes way too far backwards.


Blame TiVo. They hold a patent on the autocorrection.


Syzygy said:


> • In general, menus and lists don't remember where you were; and there's no way to go quickly to the top or bottom of a list.
> • Too many keypresses are required to get to the To Do List, the Prioritizer, and Manual recording.


This is not a bug but a preference.

There are some items there that warrant complaining. I agree. It is all a matter of perspective. The 50 series limit, press and hold and Channels I Get are areas where TiVo has a clear advantage. Personally, those impact me less than the HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10.

It is just as wrong to say the TiVos were useless as it is to claim the HR2x DVRs are. I always pick the product that presents the most value to me. I've owned both and have no devotion to either. Currently, the HR2x presents the best value for me. I will be surprised if the new offering presents enough advantages to outweigh the additional cost and irritation of changing, but I will watch closely.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> I will be glad to respond item by item...


Thanks for responding at length, and for agreeing with those points with which only a D* fanatic might disagree. I feel compelled to argue about some of your responses, though.

_• Adding NNOT PPV does wonders to most keyword searches._
I don't want to do that for one-off searches, nor should anyone have to do it. (And NNOT VOD has no effect.)

_• Use the CCHAN keyword in your search._
I do use CCHAN for Autorecording, but it's not useful when you're just looking for, say, certain kinds of movies.

_• [Search results refreshing] is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour._
No. It does happen at random times.

_• [Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days] because the guide data is not always available._
No. Sometimes search results are truncated even when there are 11 days' worth of Guide data.

_• Blame TiVo [if autocorrection goes too far backwards]. They hold [the] patent._
TiVo gets autocorrection right; and DirecTV has rights to all of TiVo's patents. (And I think there may be no TiVo patent on autocorrection.)

_• ...HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10._
What HDMI issues? Yes, I agree that our HR10 locks up or requires restarting every couple of months. Slowness? Even after the great improvements in 0x0368, my HR21 is still slower than my HR10.

Finally, I've never claimed the HR2x DVRs are useless -- just not up to the useability standards long established by TiVo, ReplayTV and Ultimate TV.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> I don't want to do that for one-off searches, nor should anyone have to do it. (And NNOT VOD has no effect.)
> 
> I do use CCHAN for Autorecording, but it's not useful when you're just looking for, say, certain kinds of movies.


There is a significant difference in DirecTV not being able to do something and you not liking the way it is done.



Syzygy said:


> No. It does happen at random times.


It is not random. Thanks to the voodoo program directors of many broadcast and cable networks, many shows start at 1 before the hour, 35 after the hour and everywhere in between. This happens because some show in the list is no longer available. It is irritating, but not random.



Syzygy said:


> TiVo gets autocorrection right; and DirecTV has rights to all of TiVo's patents. (And I think there may be no TiVo patent on autocorrection.)


TiVo has not given permission for anyone else to use a number of their pieces of intellectual property, including but not limited to the following: autocorrection for fast forward, the term Wishlist, the term Season Pass. DirecTV has a licensing agreement with TiVo. TiVo did not convey all of their intellectual property in that agreement and it has never been assumed they did.



Syzygy said:


> What HDMI issues? Yes, I agree that our HR10 locks up or requires restarting every couple of months. Slowness? Even after the great improvements in 0x0368, my HR21 is still slower than my HR10.


The HDMI failures on the HR10 were very well documented.



Syzygy said:


> Finally, I've never claimed the HR2x DVRs are useless -- just not up to the useability standards long established by TiVo, ReplayTV and Ultimate TV.


It is not up to your subjective usability standards. The HR10 was not up to the usability standards of the SD DirecTiVo units according to many customers. We all have opinions. I am discussing facts.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, this is not an HR10 vs. HR20 thread. Syzygy has started several of those. Let's get back to anticipating the upcoming TiVo device, which I anticipate I won't see in person for quite some time.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> There is a significant difference in DirecTV not being able to do something and you not liking the way it is done.


I believe you're referring, at least in part, to these two points of mine:

• Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.

It's because the marketing people rule the roost at DirecTV that we have to put up with the intentional and often unavoidable pollution of search results with shows they want to sell. It's disingenuous to pretend that my objection to this pollution is simply me (and me alone) "not liking the way it is done."

I'm sorry to have to say it, but statements like that (defending the indefensible) put you firmly in the camp of D* fanatics. I'm through.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

"This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list."

GregJones, I can't thank you enough (bow, bow) for this explnation. I have been suffering for 4 years with this problem. No matter how many times I have complained about it, there has been no resolution. I will try to time my long searches a little bit after the hour.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Second warning. I'm going to assume some posts got crossed and you all didn't see the first warning in time. 

This is not an HR10 vs. HR20 thread. Please move on.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I apologize, Stuart. Yes, I was typing my last post while you were posting. 

I understand. This is a thread about hope, not for dwelling on the (hopefully soon-to-be) past. I allowed myself to get hooked by bonscott87 saying "the UI matters not." Again, sorry for beating a dead horse.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> I apologize, Stuart. Yes, I was typing my last post while you were posting.
> 
> I understand. This is a thread about hope, not for dwelling on the (hopefully soon-to-be) past. I allowed myself to get hooked by bonscott87 saying "the UI matters not." Again, sorry for beating a dead horse.


Actually I was just agreeing with someone else that said that Kid Zone and the Tivo UI would not be enough for lots of people to switch. I agreed by saying that yes, to the majority of people, the masses, the UI doesn't matter. And I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true, just ask the 30+ million cable DVR users that are happy as punch. :lol: I said nothing more then that.

I apologize if you took it a different way or I offended somehow.

I hope that a new Tivo finally gets here because competition is always good. It would have to be *really* special for me to pay extra for it, but that doesn't mean people won't find it worth it. But the masses most likely will not unless it has a lot of extra goodies well beyond what they get for "free".


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> I agree that all Joe Sixpack wants to do is record and playback, but I disagree that the UI doesn't matter to him. The less technically sophisticated the user, the more intuitive the UI needs to be. I'm basing this on many years of application development feedback that I've observed.


+1. My work history may be similar to Steve's. Anyway, I've observed the same kind of thing: A well-thought-out and intuitive UI is good for all users, but especially for the new or casual user. Most of all, I learned that users are very much put off by unpleasant surprises in the way a program works.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't appreciate the personal characterization but I honestly care little of other people's opinion of me.

Back on the core topic, I think it will be good for a number of people that have a choice. Many will be happy once they see that little TiVo logo on it. And many of us have a lot higher expectations than when we first used DVRs.

I fully expect TiVo software to be more in line with corporate interests this time around. Specifically, I expect almost no portability of content and no user-initiated hacks. In the grand scheme of things these led to the issues that caused what user griping existed back then. Namely I refer to slow updates and lackluster support.

I want TiVo to be another financially successful DVR offering because it will mean more subscribers for DirecTV (retention and new). I don't think it will be a great number, but every little bit helps. DirecTV succeeding means they are able to continue to provide a good product. That is about the extent of my interest in the matter.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

psweig said:


> GregJones, I can't thank you enough (bow, bow) for this explnation. I have been suffering for 4 years with this problem. No matter how many times I have complained about it, there has been no resolution. I will try to time my long searches a little bit after the hour.


It took me forever to realize this was the cause. It is annoying but I would rather wait a few minutes to start than get 3 days into results and have to restart at the beginning.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> I don't appreciate the personal characterization but I honestly care little of other people's opinion of me.
> :
> I fully expect TiVo software to be more in line with corporate interests this time around.
> :
> I want TiVo to be another financially successful DVR offering because it will mean more subscribers for DirecTV (retention and new). I don't think it will be a great number, but every little bit helps. DirecTV succeeding means they are able to continue to provide a good product. That is about the extent of my interest in the matter.


Bygones?

I hope those "corporate interests" don't require a non-functional CIG list, or force-feeding PPV/VOD.

Would you care to hazard a guess about how many subscribers might pay a premium for a TiVo (even without a TiVo logo )? I'm guessing 10-20% after a year.

Even I won't jump on the "bandwagon"  right away -- unless I get to be a beta tester. Absent that, I'll probably wait for others to put their toes in the water first. I've got only two boxes now, and no way to add a third, so the new box had better work.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> I hope those "corporate interests" don't require a non-functional CIG list, or force-feeding PPV/VOD.


No, I was referring to the original TiVo models being overly hackable. While that may seem like a good idea it led to a fairly sizable rift in features between different models. Keeping content providers happy is obviously a priority for DirecTV (it should be, as they have contracts with them).

DirecTV has to walk a fine line between consumer happiness and provider concern. TiVo, in its standalone boxes, has no such concern. They don't have to sit down at the table with HBO or Showtime. Allowing the unencrypted portability of content is unlikely on a DirecTV/TiVo joint venture.

It's a different world now. When the first DirecTiVos were introduced, everyone that had one was an early adopter. Years later, DVRs are much more widespread and involve many different user interfaces. Most users have used several different DVRs. This means the bar is a lot higher now than when I bought my Sony SAT-T60. I want TiVo to knock it out of the park because it will bring up new ideas. The worst thing for all DVR users will be the new TiVo being a non-issue. Let's hope that is not the case.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

gregjones said:


> The worst thing for all DVR users will be the new TiVo being a non-issue. Let's hope that is not the case.


In that I wholeheartedly agree. In the coming years I see fewer HD channels starting, and expect most providers to carry over 90% of available channels. So what sets a provider apart? Price and convenience are certainly determining factors, but the feature set and user experience are also important and it would be great to see DIRECTV jump ahead in this as well. If users send the message that the UI is unimportant, there will be no reason to innovate.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

1+1=2

(I just want to see how that can be pointlessly refuted)


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters.


Everyone that bought a DVR up to and including the golden years of the DirecTiVo was an early adopter because the percentage of penetration was ridiculously low. These were geared towards a very specifically narrow audience. The UI had to be designed for that audience.

The audience is now very different. TiVo's predominant UI features are vast departures from the cable guides of its time. After DVRs became more commonplace, many other UIs more closely mirrored the non-DVR program guides. This is somewhat similar to early cars and today. In the early days of affordable cars, your choice was a black Ford in the US. That was the only consistently available choice in many markets. Now users have a lot more choices and a lot higher expectations.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

gregjones said:


> 1+1=2
> 
> (I just want to see how that can be pointlessly refuted)


1+1=10 (base 2)


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> 1+1=10 (base 2)


As a former math major, I will take that.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> Everyone that bought a DVR up to and including the golden years of the DirecTiVo was an early adopter because the percentage of penetration was ridiculously low. These were geared towards a very specifically narrow audience. The UI had to be designed for that audience...


The audience was VCR users. TiVo and ReplayTV were starting in 1998-1999 with a fairly clean slate. They both, IMO, did a great job on their respective UI designs -- and on interacting with their users to improve their product. The DirecTiVos used the same UI as the stand-alone TiVo.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Would you care to hazard a guess about how many subscribers might pay a premium for a TiVo (even without a TiVo logo )? I'm guessing 10-20% after a year.


10-20% after a year? That's insanity. I think 5-10% after a year is being generous.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> 10-20% after a year? That's insanity. I think 5-10% after a year is being generous.


I think that all depends on how it is offered. If the hardware cost is the same and the premium is the same $2.99/mo that Comcast customers pay, then I would agree with your assessment.

If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.


I can't imagine Tivo would go for that.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters.


Does $399 in January 2000 count? :wave:


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> I think that all depends on how it is offered. If the hardware cost is the same and the premium is the same $2.99/mo that Comcast customers pay, then I would agree with your assessment.
> 
> If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.


I would gladly pay $2.99/month for a TiVo. The day that the DirecTiVo becomes available, I am ordering anew one for my wife to replace her SD TiVo and I am sending the HR20 that I have HATED since the day I got it in 8/2006 and getting a second DirecTiVo to replace it!

But I would prefer to pay nothing extra for the TiVo and instead they get to keep me as a customer! The HR20 is such a piece of crap that if DirecTV didn't still have exclusivity of NFL-Sunday Ticket, I would have switched to FiOS long ago! And with the ever-increasing prices from DirecTV, they had better be careful in assuming that they can get away with charging more and more and more and ... Adding the new HD-DirecTiVo just might keep them from LOSING customers!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies.


It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly. Unlike the HR2* which functions rarely! I actually prefer the HR2* interface (being able to access NowPlaying and set up recordings, do searches, etc without exiting what you are currently playing). But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.


Hyperbole much?


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> Does $399 in January 2000 count? :wave:


Hey, I'm January of 2000 also.


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

tick, tock. Our 2000 DSR6000 Series 1 is still our main DVR here, upgraded to 106 hours 5 years ago, with an upgraded fan at that time too. Absolutely trouble free workhorse in daily use. My HD upgrade didn't happen last year cause our 2nd local DTV installer thought our one HD LOS location was too difficult for him to do (after the 1st DTV installer said they would do the install if I had my tripod setup in the HD LOS location ahead of time).

So I have been staring at an empty tripod high up on my roof for over a year. This week, in anticipation of the HD TiVo release, I bought a SWM Slimline/PI and rough aligned it, it will go up on the tripod the day after our HD TiVo arrives. The lower weight, single coax, and the elimination of 110 and 119 sats for mainstream programming, makes this install just easy enough for me to try on my own.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

fairsailing said:


> tick, tock. Our 2000 DSR6000 Series 1 is still our main DVR here, upgraded to 106 hours 5 years ago, with an upgraded fan at that time too. Absolutely trouble free workhorse in daily use. My HD upgrade didn't happen last year cause our 2nd local DTV installer thought our one HD LOS location was too difficult for him to do (after the 1st DTV installer said they would do the install if I had my tripod setup in the HD LOS location ahead of time).
> 
> So I have been staring at an empty tripod high up on my roof for over a year. This week, in anticipation of the HD TiVo release, I bought a SWM Slimline/PI and rough aligned it, it will go up on the tripod the day after our HD TiVo arrives. The lower weight, single coax, and the elimination of 110 and 119 sats for mainstream programming, makes this install just easy enough for me to try on my own.


You might be waiting a few months.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Along with possibly losing some of the content that is only available in MPEG2 on 119W.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly. Unlike the HR2* which functions rarely! I actually prefer the HR2* interface (being able to access NowPlaying and set up recordings, do searches, etc without exiting what you are currently playing). But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.


What glitches?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> What glitches?


You cannot be serious!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly.


I've heard the word primative used much more frequently as a description than elegant. 

It's a matter of taste in the end (the UI).

As for your other observation.

I have successfully used the HR2x generation HD DVRs (have several of them, different models)...and "glitchy" isn't an appropriate description.

I have never missed a recording or playback - not one in thousands of recordings. Seems like that kind of reliability would not be consistent with your assessment.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> What glitches?


You forgot to put this  at the end of your post.


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> You might be waiting a few months.


I know I am early. The only official pronouncements I have seen are 2010, so I could even be a whole year early, but I hope not. Just the unemployed looking for house projects. 



harsh said:


> Along with possibly losing some of the content that is only available in MPEG2 on 119W.


I thought everything but the internationals and some spot locals had been moved.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

fairsailing said:


> I know I am early. The only official pronouncements I have seen are 2010, so I could even be a whole year early, but I hope not. Just the unemployed looking for house projects.
> 
> I thought everything but the internationals and some spot locals had been moved.


There's still a few MPEG2 HD(channels in the 70s) versions of ESPNs, TNT, etc on 119. All those channels have a HD mpeg4 version channel at the same channel number as the SD version. The exceptions of this are the HD only channels but those are scattered in the guide for their mpeg 4 version.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> Along with possibly losing some of the content that is only available in MPEG2 on 119W.


What content would that be?

Hint: there isn't any.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I have successfully used the HR2x generation HD DVRs (have several of them, different models)... I have never missed a recording or playback - not one in thousands of recordings...


Umglaublisch! Incroyable!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> What content would that be?
> 
> Hint: there isn't any.


For someone who lives in Michigan, that would be content en Espanol. For those from other areas, it may represent their SD locals.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> For someone who lives in Michigan, that would be content en Espanol. For those from other areas, it may represent their SD locals.


Both of those things are special cases. In the vast majority of cases, you will not lose a single channel by losing access 110 and 119.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

This may be olds news by I recently go my anniversy gift from Directv(3 months game lounge but I complained and they gave me $5 off the next 3 months instead) and I complained about Vs and I'm waiting to see if they have Vs back by the time the new Dish DVR comes out(I plan on moving to Dish if they don't) and they have said they expect the Tivo DVR in sometime in 2010.

From the email:


> Furthermore, we are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:
> 
> Access to over 130 HD channels
> DIRECTV on DEMAND capability
> ...


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Araxen said:


> This may be olds news by I recently go my anniversy gift from Directv(3 months game lounge but I complained and they gave me $5 off the next 3 months instead) and I complained about Vs and I'm waiting to see if they have Vs back by the time the new Dish DVR comes out(I plan on moving to Dish if they don't) and they have said they expect the Tivo DVR in sometime in 2010.
> 
> From the email:


And the new TiVo will be a dedicated receiver not a software download to the HR20 family of receivers.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

codespy said:


> And the new TiVo will be a dedicated receiver not a software download to the HR20 family of receivers.


Any source?


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Any source?


From DirecTV, but also must adhere to terms regarding furthur disclosure.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

codespy said:


> From DirecTV, but also must adhere to terms regarding furthur disclosure.


Well, I hope testing goes well & that we'll see a preview one day.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Going out on a limb here, and maybe I'm wrong about this. But aside from all the speculation of download vs new box, and with TiVo investing a hefty chunk into this, you think they would not be allowed to have their logo on a new DirecTiVo? IOW, If it was a download to a DirecTV box (HR2x family of receivers), I don't think they would appreciate not having a TiVo logo on the front of the hardware.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

As the language to date has not left the idea of running on existing hardware out of the realm of possibility, you need to do something more substantial to support your claims.

For their part, TiVo claimed their software will run on _all_ DIRECTV HD DVRs upon release.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

codespy said:


> And the new TiVo will be a dedicated receiver not a software download to the HR20 family of receivers.


Even if that is true, that would not mean the same hardware. It would simply mean a receiver was setup as one or the other.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

harsh said:


> ... TiVo claimed their software will run on *all* DIRECTV HD DVRs upon release.


An important detail: When did they make that claim? They may have changed their minds.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Be interesting to see if there will be a whiff of any of this in TIVO's earnings call next week.

I wouldn't think there would be a separate hardware setup for TIVO. I believe (could be wrong) that TIVO has stated they want to get out of the hardware business as it is not the best long term solution for them.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

fornold said:


> Be interesting to see if there will be a whiff of any of this in TIVO's earnings call next week.
> 
> I wouldn't think there would be a separate hardware setup for TIVO. I believe (could be wrong) that TIVO has stated they want to get out of the hardware business as it is not the best long term solution for them.


This article implies that more TIVO is coming soon, so I guess I was incorrect about them wanting to get out hardware.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

harsh said:


> As the language to date has not left the idea of running on existing hardware out of the realm of possibility, you need to do something more substantial to support your claims..................


God I wish I could. I remember when this happened.....feels like so long ago:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=306758&highlight=upgrade+6.3


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

It is entirely possible that Tivo will take a production version of the HR2x series, put Tivo branding on it, Tivo software in it, and that will be the DirecTivo. In other words, it would (from a hardware perspective) be identical to the particular HR2x it is based on. That way, it is a specific product, and not a "software download" to any HR2x box. I have heard nothing that says this is what will happen, just speculation on my part. Could be completely wrong (or completely right).


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

codespy said:
 

> Going out on a limb here, and maybe I'm wrong about this. But aside from all the speculation of download vs new box, and with TiVo investing a hefty chunk into this, you think they would not be allowed to have their logo on a new DirecTiVo? IOW, If it was a download to a DirecTV box (HR2x family of receivers), I don't think they would appreciate not having a TiVo logo on the front of the hardware.





harsh said:


> As the language to date has not left the idea of running on existing hardware out of the realm of possibility, you need to do something more substantial to support your claims.
> 
> For their part, TiVo claimed their software will run on _all_ DIRECTV HD DVRs upon release.


A bit...harsh....don't ya think. I didn't see codespy make any claims. Codespy did speculate on something (and it seems plausable to me)... a little speculation is a far cry from making unsupported claims...IMHO anyway. :grin:

Mike


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> I didn't see codespy make any claims. Codespy did speculate on something (and it seems plausable to me)... a little speculation is a far cry from making unsupported claims...IMHO anyway.


See if a careful reading of post #258 doesn't change your position.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> As the language to date has not left the idea of running on existing hardware out of the realm of possibility, you need to do something more substantial to support your claims.
> 
> For their part, TiVo claimed their software will run on _all_ DIRECTV HD DVRs upon release.


Really?! I thought the claim was that it would be "available to all new and existing DIRECTV customers." That doesn't really say anything about hardware.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> See if a careful reading of post #258 doesn't change your position.


Might be helpful if you would actually quote the post you're responding to. It makes it a whole lot easier to understand...especially if the post you're responding to is not the previous post...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## slimoli (Jan 28, 2005)

With dual-buffer and MRV, I won't be missing TiVo.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

slimoli said:


> With dual-buffer and MRV, I won't be missing TiVo.


I miss the guide!!!! I HATE the current DVR guide. I am willing to switch back to tivo just for the guide. If they let tivo implement its tivo to go function I will be all over it like flies on dogpoop.

The other thing I liked about my tivo was when I set a season pass for a show it didn't lock it into just one channel like the current DVR's do. I have like 3 series links just to catch all the family guy episodes.

I also kinda miss the wishlist functionality. I could set a wishlist for say Pittsburgh penguins and I it would record my hockey games automatically or set a wish list for adam sandler and it would record all his movies when they played.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> I miss the guide!!!! I HATE the current DVR guide. I am willing to switch back to tivo just for the guide. If they let tivo implement its tivo to go function I will be all over it like flies on dogpoop.
> 
> The other thing I liked about my tivo was when I set a season pass for a show it didn't lock it into just one channel like the current DVR's do. I have like 3 series links just to catch all the family guy episodes.
> 
> I also kinda miss the wishlist functionality. I could set a wishlist for say Pittsburgh penguins and I it would record my hockey games automatically or set a wish list for adam sandler and it would record all his movies when they played.


I occasionally miss the ability to back up the guide beyond the current time but that's about it I think.

Mike


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

There are a lot of crazy claims made in here over the last few weeks hahaha.

Weve turned 'This is my understanding/speculation' into 'This is what DirecTV is doing, This is what Tivo is doing'
which then becomes a pissing war over where the facts are.

And i'm sticking to my original guns.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> If they let tivo implement its tivo to go function I will be all over it like flies on dogpoop.


That won't happen, DRM and all.



> The other thing I liked about my tivo was when I set a season pass for a show it didn't lock it into just one channel like the current DVR's do. I have like 3 series links just to catch all the family guy episodes.


Autorecord search will do the same thing for you on the HR2x. You can even limit the channel range it will record off of.



> I also kinda miss the wishlist functionality. I could set a wishlist for say Pittsburgh penguins and I it would record my hockey games automatically or set a wish list for adam sandler and it would record all his movies when they played.


Both can be easily done with an autorecord search. I've got one for my Red Wings and it records every game without fail. The only bug is that it might try to record a movie off a channel you don't get, but that's minor for the most part, especially if you have the top package and get most all the channels anyway.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

I don't care about the seldom used features that hog resources....I look forward to TIVO simply because they have the A-Team in their software design group. TIVO concentrates on maintaining superior basic DVR functionality vs. DTV which appears to be absolutely clueless on getting a handle on their issues with basic functions. Weekly RBR is not a solution for these sluggish DVR's!


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

CJTE said:


> And i'm sticking to my original guns.


What would that be?


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

CJTE said:


> <snip>
> 
> And i'm sticking to my original guns.


An M134 would be my choice. 

I do find the speculation on hardware very interesting. I long ago posted the HR23 as my _guess_. We know it has different hardware in it (besides the BCM7401 that is).

Then again it could be something completely new. I don't think it will be the whole HR2x line though.

Mike


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I don't think it will be the whole HR2x line though.


It wouldn't make sense if it were the whole HR2x line. The HR23 is the only HR2x that is still being produced, so I couldn't imagine them pulling an older model back into production just to make Tivos. I suspect it'll be based on HR24/HR30 hardware, myself.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> ... I suspect it'll be based on HR24/HR30 hardware, myself.


What's an HR30?

If the MPEG4 TiVo is going to be a new box, it would be helpful if they would give it a name that doesn't begin with HR2 (or HR3?). That way, we could continue to use the collective term HR2x for all of the DVRs that are running NDS firmware.

BTW, is NDS still involved in programming or maintenance? Still in Britain?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> That way, we could continue to use the collective term HR2x for all of the hardware that's running NDS firmware.


The HR2x boxes are not running NDS firmware. Neither are the H2x boxes, aside from the H20.


Syzygy said:


> BTW, is NDS still involved in programming or maintenance? Still in Britain?


NDS maintains the H20. The company is still based in Britain.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> What's an HR30?


Just the mythical model number some have spouted around here to indicate a new model that would run either Tivo or DirecTV. It is meaningless. I highly doubt that the new Tivo software would be any kind of in place download on current receivers. The most cost effective way would be to have a new hardware model that can be ordered that has either Tivo or DirecTV on it. That is unless Tivo is footing the bill to do it's own hardware platform.



> BTW, is NDS still involved in programming or maintenance? Still in Britain?


NDS has never done any work on the HR2x series and in fact hasn't done any STB work for DirecTV for a very long time other then maintaining some older out of production models, R15 and maybe the H20.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mjbvideo said:


> I don't care about the seldom used features that hog resources....I look forward to TIVO simply because they have the A-Team in their software design group. TIVO concentrates on maintaining superior basic DVR functionality


Yea, I know ordering pizza is at the top of the list of DVR functions. Whoohoooo! 

Nothing beats ads during a pause either. :lol:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

mjbvideo said:


> I don't care about the seldom used features that hog resources....I look forward to TIVO simply because they have the A-Team in their software design group. TIVO concentrates on maintaining superior basic DVR functionality vs. DTV which appears to be absolutely clueless on getting a handle on their issues with basic functions. Weekly RBR is not a solution for these sluggish DVR's!





bonscott87 said:


> Yea, I know ordering pizza is at the top of the list of DVR functions. Whoohoooo!
> 
> Nothing beats ads during a pause either. :lol:


Don't forget the 20 minute wait to reorder season passes. :lol:


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## Alabamatechguy (Aug 27, 2009)

A caution needs to be expressed in this thread. It appears likely that the "new HD tivo" will for sure NOT be here in time for Christmas "upgrade" season so may I recomend going ahead and calling the DirecTV upgrade department at 800-531-5000 as you will likely get an HR22 or HR23 which with the recent software upgrades are really very effective and who knows if when you call there might even be a programing upgrade special promo that you qualify for as well. May your "upgrade season" be complete.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Alabamatechguy said:


> A caution needs to be expressed in this thread. It appears likely that the "new HD tivo" will for sure NOT be here in time for Christmas "upgrade" season so may I recomend going ahead and calling the DirecTV upgrade department at 800-531-5000 as you will likely get an HR22 or HR23 which with the recent software upgrades are really very effective and who knows if when you call there might even be a programing upgrade special promo that you qualify for as well. May your "upgrade season" be complete.


I've said from first announcement that it would likely be Q1/2010 .. There are hints out there that even that may be too early, but I'm not yet willing to back off of that time frame yet. "By Christmas?" No way. If anyone is hoping for a DirecTiVo Christmas, I'd suggest you wait for Christmas 2010.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Do expect possibly some indication tomorrow after the market closes, during the analyst call.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Alabamatechguy said:


> A caution needs to be expressed in this thread. It appears likely that the "new HD tivo" will for sure NOT be here in time for Christmas "upgrade" season so may I recomend going ahead and calling the DirecTV upgrade department at 800-531-5000 as you will likely get an HR22 or HR23 which with the recent software upgrades are really very effective and who knows if when you call there might even be a programing upgrade special promo that you qualify for as well. May your "upgrade season" be complete.


If DTV would offer a clear migration path to TIVO or at least just give us some concrete information I would have two additional HD boxes right now. If the put out a press release tomorrow saying the tivo deal went south then I would immediately order the boxes. Unfortunately for me I hate the guide so much on the current DVR's I can wait until the TIVO's come out. Good things come for those willing to wait.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> ...
> 
> *NDS has never done any work on the HR2x series *and in fact hasn't done any STB work for DirecTV for a very long time other then maintaining some older out of production models, R15 and maybe the H20.


You shouldn't be so persistent, especially if you take a look into HR20 binary code. A lot of Copyrights from NDS while whole system written by Pace or other companies.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> If DTV would offer a clear migration path to TIVO


This is a pipe dream. It's simply a new receiver option, nothing more.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

P Smith said:


> You shouldn't be so persistent, especially if you take a look into HR20 binary code. A lot of Copyrights from NDS while whole system written by Pace or other companies.


Of course there are a lot of NDS copyrights. All DirecTV-branded receivers use the NDS MediaHighway middleware. That doesn't mean NDS worked on the actual code, it just means DirecTV is using some of their stuff.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> ...
> NDS has never done any work on the HR2x series and in fact hasn't done any STB work for DirecTV for a very long time other then maintaining some older out of production models, R15 and maybe the H20.





P Smith said:


> You shouldn't be so persistent, especially if you take a look into HR20 binary code. A lot of Copyrights from NDS while whole system written by Pace or other companies.


You both are somewhat correct, if I understand how things work.

NDS "probably" did not author any code specifically for the HR2x family but their modules for conditional access and other features that were written for DIRECTV do get built into the final firmware package. (One other thought, NDS might have had to tweak their existing modules to be compatible with the HR2x family.)

And most of the hardware manufacturers (the chip makers that is), have very likely provided basic software modules for using their hardware. Things like drivers, HDMI control, satellite control(?), and codecs are all likely candidates. (And DIRECTV could take source code for some bits and improve them...) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

ATARI said:


> CJTE said:
> 
> 
> > i'm sticking to my original guns.
> ...


Well, I managed to lose my guns in a thread transition. It was a very cool collective discussion when we first started talking about the HD Tivo press release. I will see if I can find it and will link to it.



MicroBeta said:


> CJTE said:
> 
> 
> > i'm sticking to my original guns.
> ...


Waaaay too bulky for me haha. That .50 cal hand cannon is a beauty though, if it doesnt take your hand with it


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

At least accepted by "_One other thought, NDS might have had to tweak their existing modules to be compatible with the HR2x family_", if no more then that. Wanna see copyright dates ?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

P Smith said:


> At least accepted by "_One other thought, NDS might have had to tweak their existing modules to be compatible with the HR2x family_", if no more then that. Wanna see copyright dates ?


But are those copyright dates "just for HR2x" or do all the receivers have the same, updated copyright dates for their conditional access software? 

There should be no doubt that NDS keeps their code updated to continue protecting how the conditional access works. They have to keep ahead of the hackers. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> I've said from first announcement that it would likely be Q1/2010 .. There are hints out there that even that may be too early, but I'm not yet willing to back off of that time frame yet. "By Christmas?" No way. If anyone is hoping for a DirecTiVo Christmas, I'd suggest you wait for Christmas 2010.


This is very clearly borne out by TiVo's own statements that the product won't be available until 2010.


TiVo Q1 2010 financial call (May 27th said:


> DIRECTV not likely to rollout until early next year.


Subsequent reports have been even less forthcoming and certainly no more optimistic about an earlier release.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> This is a pipe dream. It's simply a new receiver option, nothing more.


I have to agree with this one ...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> This is very clearly borne out by TiVo's own statements that the product won't be available until 2010.


Well, duh! Why do you think I was so adamant. The initial release said EOY09, actually, said 2H09. I said after first PR, that it would be Q1/2010 ...



Doug Brott said:


> My belief is that it will be, yes .. I think the MPEG4 TiVo will be available on the last day of Q1 2010 .. just so that it can be said that it only slipped one quarter (right now they are saying EOY 2009).


I haven't changed my prediction, BTW .. I'm still going with the last day of Q1 2010  .. but there are hints that that could change. We'll see what Tivo has to say later today.


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, in the TiVo quarterly conference call tonight Rogers again makes reference to an on track introduction in 2010, and one of the analysts, in formulating a question, makes reference to a spring 2010 introduction, and is not corrected by Tom.

Also, as an aside, the CFO said that DTV over reported TiVo subscribers at DTV for the past quarter or two, as discovered in a DTV audit this quarter, and DTV and TiVo have agreed on the amount of overpayment. (I've always thought that tracking and billing were one of DTV's stronger points, based on my limited experience.)


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

fairsailing said:


> Well, in the TiVo quarterly conference call tonight Rogers again makes reference to an on track introduction in 2010, and one of the analysts, in formulating a question, makes reference to a spring 2010 introduction, and is not corrected by Tom.
> 
> Also, as an aside, the CFO said that DTV over reported TiVo subscribers at DTV for the past quarter or two, as discovered in a DTV audit this quarter, and DTV and TiVo have agreed on the amount of overpayment. (I've always thought that tracking and billing were one of DTV's stronger points, based on my limited experience.)


So, DirecTV claimed more Tivo users than they actually had?
And Tivo is going to credit them for the amount of users they were off by??


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

CJTE said:


> So, DirecTV claimed more Tivo users than they actually had? And Tivo is going to credit them for the amount of users they were off by??


Yep, exactly.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

"The new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR is on track for launch next year, and we believe this will provide DIRECTV's 18 million plus subscribers with the best way to experience television."

Previously, the CEO had referenced "early 2010", need to double check the analyst transcript when available.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The transcript:http://seekingalpha.com/article/175...d-10-31-2009-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1​David Miller - Caris & CompanyThen as a follow-up, clearly there seems to be pent-up demand for this TiVo, DIRECTV combo box that you know what appears as if everything seems to be on schedule there for rollout and call for spring 2010. Under the current agreement that you have with DIRECTV with their contract, looking at their contract that they have with you, are they allowed to use TiVo as a promotional hook in order to get people to switch from cable over to DIRECTV or is that just not allowed given your relationship with Comcast and Cox?​Tom RogersThis is Tom. No limitations on their ability to use TiVo or to package TiVo in a way that best drives their business. They have significant marketing obligations under our new distribution arrangement with them, and we are looking for them to do what they need to do to move TiVo forward, but of course their business is well.​


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## wco81 (Feb 23, 2008)

One thing surprising about those results, not that I've been following Tivo, is that they're losing subscribers every quarter since peaking at 4.4 million in January 2007.

It's about half that now and the cause of the decline is lower revenues from cable and satellite. You would think that fact would motivate Tivo to push this project out as soon as possible.

But apparently, they depend on patent litigation to boost their revenues, following their win against Dish, they're going after Fios and U-Verse.


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

wco81 said:


> One thing surprising about those results, not that I've been following Tivo, is that they're losing subscribers every quarter since peaking at 4.4 million in January 2007.
> 
> It's about half that now and the cause of the decline is lower revenues from cable and satellite. You would think that fact would motivate Tivo to push this project out as soon as possible.
> 
> But apparently, they depend on patent litigation to boost their revenues, following their win against Dish, they're going after Fios and U-Verse.


Not that surprising, since losing DirecTV was a big blow. As old TiVos come out of service DirecTV replaces them with their own brand DVR. And I'm sure they would like this out ASAP. But it is well known that TiVo has the worlds slowest programmers and are always delayed. I would not expect this(based on their previous track record) to be out before 3rd quarter 2010.

As far as litigation goes, if you are in the right I say go for it. If they invented something first, they are entitled to compensation, just ask Elisha Gray, hours can mean the difference between riches and a footnote in history.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

What a surprise, the conference call that was expected to have a ton of new information yielded nothing.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

As with most of these public statements ... "next" or "early" or "late" is all that ever comes of these things.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> :lol:
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who _loved _both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:


AMEN!!! I loved the feel of the Peanut in my hand and the TiVo Style Guide was the BEST!!! I just complained about it in another thread.

Also, the ability to Edit the Search Functions.


----------



## Guest (Nov 28, 2009)

Anyone know if the Tivo will need the B-Band Convertors? Thanks.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

CraigerCSM said:


> Anyone know if the Tivo will need the B-Band Convertors? Thanks.


No, I believe they are trying to get away from the BBCs because they fail alot so they went with the Wideband Tuner in the HR23-700 and SWM Technology does not need them.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

richierich said:


> No, I believe they are trying to get away from the BBCs because they fail alot so they went with the Wideband Tuner in the HR23-700 and SWM Technology does not need them.


A better question will be, are they SWM compatible. I would certainly think so because most of the new DTV installs are all SWM and this is supposed to be the same boxes used by DTV branded DVR. *we don't know which box yet*. I am guessing its not the current HR20-21-22 or 23.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ffemtreed said:


> A better question will be, are they SWM compatible. I would certainly think so because most of the new DTV installs are all SWM and this is supposed to be the same boxes used by DTV branded DVR. *we don't know which box yet*. I am guessing its not the current HR20-21-22 or 23.


It will be the NEW HR24 and the NEW HD MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO!!! YEAH TIVO!!!


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2009)

richierich said:


> It will be the NEW HR24 and the NEW HD MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO!!! YEAH TIVO!!!


When is the HR24 coming out? I wonder if it will be hard to choose between the Tivo or the HR24?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

CraigerCSM said:


> When is the HR24 coming out? I wonder if it will be hard to choose between the Tivo or the HR24?


Well, according to the latest Directv Slideshow Presentation, the HR24 should be coming out by the end of the First Quarter 2010 but I would believe we will see it around June or July 2010!!!


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2009)

richierich said:


> Well, according to the latest Directv Press Release, the HR24 should be coming out by the end of the First Quarter 2010 but I would believe we will see it around June or July 2010!!!


I just read that DTV Powerpoint presentation. It looks like they have alot of cool features and devices coming out in 2010.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Don't trust those words and presentations !


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I wouldn't bet the House on it but it does give an indication that they are aware that DECA and SWM and other Internal Technologies will come forth to provide alot of good stuff for Mom & Pop in the future who are not technically inclined or care to be!!!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

why does everyone seem to think the hr24 will be tivo based?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

David MacLeod said:


> why does everyone seem to think the hr24 will be tivo based?


AFAIK no one thinks that. Here's what started the current kerfuffel:


richierich said:


> It will be the new HR24 *and* the new HD MPEG-4 DirecTiVo!!! Yeah TiVo!!!


I saw that as meaning two separate boxes.


----------



## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Can anyone provide a link to the D* press release about the HR24?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Can anyone provide a link to the D* press release about the HR24?


Since there ain't none, kinda hard to provide. 

You can be sure we'll have a first look as one of the first things publicly available. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Originally Posted by richierich View Post
Well, according to the latest Directv Press Release, the HR24 should be coming out by the end of the First Quarter 2010 but I would believe we will see it around June or July 2010!!!


I call BS then!
And anxiously await the First Look!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> I just read that DTV Powerpoint presentation. It looks like they have alot of cool features and devices coming out in 2010.


What PowerPoint presentation?


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

There was a Slide Presentation by the Vice President of Sales for Directv (Tony Goncalves) last week and in it was a Power Point Presentation that pointed down to an HR24 DVR and suggested that it will be using DECA for Whole House DVR (MRV type service). This was Released to us at DBSTALK.COM by a guy named Doug Brott.

Here is his Link. Tony Goncalves Keynote


----------



## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Can anyone provide a link to that thread? I can't find it. Thanks.


----------



## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

> There was a Slide Presentation by the Vice President of Sales for Directv (Tony Goncalves) last week and in it was a Power Point Presentation that pointed down to an HR24 DVR and suggested that it will be using DECA for Whole House DVR (MRV type service). This was Released to us at DBSTALK.COM by a guy named Doug Brott.


Does this mean that, in order to MRV, we will need to purchase a "Whole House DVR" in order to MVR, vice just a software upgrade to the present HR's?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Can anyone provide a link to that thread? I can't find it. Thanks.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2279279#post2279279

Note that the word Tivo is never mentioned. 


usnret said:


> Does this mean that, in order to MRV, we will need to purchase a "Whole House DVR" in order to MVR, vice just a software upgrade to the present HR's?


That question is not answered in the presentation.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

usnret said:


> Does this mean that, in order to MRV, we will need to purchase a "Whole House DVR" in order to MVR, vice just a software upgrade to the present HR's?


There was, oddly, no mention of the Whole House DVR in the PowerPoint and hence, no reason to believe that it will be required for MRV. Slide 20 mentions streaming "from room to room" as opposed to from server to node.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

I can't even find a solid mention of the Whole House DVR on this forum...

And from what we've seen so far, we will not need to purchase an HR24 in order to do MRV.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

When I mentioned Whole House I was referring to the Slide Show Presentation on Page 20 which shows all of the DVRs and Receivers being able to communicate with each other probably thru DECA and SWM.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> AFAIK no one thinks that. Here's what started the current kerfuffel:
> 
> I saw that as meaning two separate boxes.


Yes, I did mean that statement as referring to TWO Different DVRs, an HR24 and a HD MPEG-4 DVR (who knows what it will be called).


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

usnret said:


> Does this mean that, in order to MRV, we will need to purchase a "Whole House DVR" in order to MVR, vice just a software upgrade to the present HR's?


No that does not mean that. It just means that MRV is coming and one way of using it will be an HR24 DVR via DECA and SWM Technologies.

Wouldn't it be Interesting if the HR24 was Indeed the DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR that is speculated to be coming out in First or Second Quarter 2010!!! Alot of you might think back to this mentioning of it and the Slideshow Presentation as a Hint of what is to come that actually did come to be!!! :lol:

And why would Directv spend alot of money and effort to come out with a DVR (HR24) to compete with the up and coming DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR!!! Doesn't make alot of sense to me but maybe it does to you!!!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

richierich said:


> Yes, I did mean that statement as referring to TWO Different DVRs, an HR24 and a HD MPEG-4 DVR (who knows what it will be called).


sorry about that, thought I had seen some earlier ones (other posters) alluding to it but I can't find them now.
my bad


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

richierich said:


> Wouldn't it be Interesting if the HR24 was Indeed the DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR that is speculated to be coming out in First or Second Quarter 2010!
> 
> And *why* would Directv spend alot of money and effort to come out with a DVR (HR24) to compete with the up and coming DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR!!! Doesn't make alot of sense to me but maybe it does to you!!!


My guess: The gigantic egos of some people in D* marketing. I'm sure they think the DVR"+" (ironic quotes) is the best thing ever.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

richierich said:


> No that does not mean that. It just means that MRV is coming and one way of using it will be an HR24 DVR via DECA and SWM Technologies.
> 
> Wouldn't it be Interesting if the HR24 was Indeed the DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR that is speculated to be coming out in First or Second Quarter 2010!!! Alot of you might think back to this mentioning of it and the Slideshow Presentation as a Hint of what is to come that actually did come to be!!! :lol:
> 
> And why would Directv spend alot of money and effort to come out with a DVR (HR24) to compete with the up and coming DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR!!! Doesn't make alot of sense to me but maybe it does to you!!!


Why not?

Seems to me that TiVo needs DirecTV, and not vice-versa.

So why not continue to improve your own brand DVR?


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ATARI said:


> Why not?
> 
> Seems to me that TiVo needs DirecTV, and not vice-versa.
> 
> So why not continue to improve your own brand DVR?


I wouldn't think Directv would want their OWN brand to compete with a TiVo software based DVR so they combine the two and have the Best Of Both Worlds, a New and Improved Directv Hardware Platform with TiVo software that also utilizes Directv's current software but just enhances it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

richierich said:


> No that does not mean that. It just means that MRV is coming and one way of using it will be an HR24 DVR via DECA and SWM Technologies.
> 
> Wouldn't it be Interesting if the HR24 was Indeed the DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR that is speculated to be coming out in First or Second Quarter 2010!!! Alot of you might think back to this mentioning of it and the Slideshow Presentation as a Hint of what is to come that actually did come to be!!! :lol:
> 
> And why would Directv spend alot of money and effort to come out with a DVR (HR24) to compete with the up and coming DIRECTIVO MPEG-4 HD DVR!!! Doesn't make alot of sense to me but maybe it does to you!!!


Um... they've already made very clear the TiVos will compete with the HR2x family. And on the same hardware. We don't know if it will be the HR24 hardware initially or the existing HR2x family.

The HR24 will not be DIRECTiVo only. Guaranteed.

As to why? As stated, to charge a premium for the TiVoTees that just gotta get that fix. 

Many companies have competing products in their portfolio. Done right, it presents options for the consumer across more market segments. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well Tom, that does sound plausible but we will just have to wait and see. It's all Speculation at this point in time but it is always fun to speculate. It eliminates Boredom!!! :lol:


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> I wouldn't think Directv would want their OWN brand to compete with a TiVo software based DVR so they combine the two and have the Best Of Both Worlds, a New and Improved Directv Hardware Platform with TiVo software that also utilizes Directv's current software but just enhances it.


Wait wait wait wait.

Are you suggesting that you're considering the idea that the Tivo software is going to be something of a widget that runs on top of DirecTVs current software?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CJTE said:


> Wait wait wait wait.
> 
> Are you suggesting that you're considering the idea that the Tivo software is going to be something of a widget that runs on top of DirecTVs current software?


Don't hold your breath on that.

Likely...any new TivoBox will run firmware vary similar to whatever runs on DirecTV label HD equipment.

The cost of running 2 totally different firmware products would be quite costly, as opposed to 2 different iterations of the same base code.

They may appear somewhat different, but still very similar "underneath the hood".


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Don't hold your breath on that.
> 
> Likely...any new TivoBox will run firmware vary similar to whatever runs on DirecTV label HD equipment.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have stated it better!!!

+1


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

richierich said:


> I wouldn't think Directv would want their OWN brand to compete with a TiVo software based DVR so they combine the two and have the Best Of Both Worlds, a New and Improved Directv Hardware Platform with TiVo software that also utilizes Directv's current software but just enhances it.


You are making repeated assertions based on opinions. They do not seem to coincide with business logic. TiVo is paying for development because TiVo needs DirecTV customers. DirecTV is happy to let them pay for it because they will lose no customers and might gain a few. DirecTV is, for the most part, in a position to win regardless.

You do not have to apply any overall change in their goals to accommodate this new product.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

gregjones said:


> TiVo is paying for development because TiVo needs DirecTV customers.


....subject to DirecTV firmware specifications for that project, of course.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

richierich said:


> I wouldn't think Directv would want their OWN brand to compete with a TiVo software based DVR so they combine the two and have the Best Of Both Worlds, a New and Improved Directv Hardware Platform with TiVo software that also utilizes Directv's current software but just enhances it.


I believe your logic is flawed. What is good for one person is not necessarily good for others. There will be two DVR lines, because some will prefer TiVo and some will not. There may be a price differential between the two.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> What is good for one person is not necessarily good for others. There will be two DVR lines, because some will prefer TiVo and some will not. There may be a price differential between the two.


Makes perfect sense, especially from a "marketing" perspective.

While the two versions can indeed share some base code specifications, they could also "appear" different in their user interfaces (UI).

It makes alot of sense that they'd want to somehow distinguish the two in the "user experience", as well as hardware...and with different pricing.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likely...any new TivoBox will run firmware vary similar to whatever runs on DirecTV label HD equipment...
> 
> They may appear somewhat different, but still very similar "underneath the hood".


A lot of the mistakes in the HR2x firmware are "under the hood". IMO, TiVo engineers will be careful not to replicate those mistakes.

I hope and pray that the only code the two software regimes will have in common is at the very lowest level -- next to the bare metal.

I have no idea whether the MPEG4 TiVo will be yet another HR2x box -- or a separate box (HR3x, or even HAL? ) that maybe just happens to be able to run the HR2x code. But I hope it's a faster box, and less crippled by cost-cutting.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> A lot of the mistakes in the HR2x firmware are "under the hood". IMO, TiVo engineers will be careful not to replicate those mistakes.


DirecTV calls the shots on specifications...so the Tivo folks will have to code to those...


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

I wonder which one will be the one with the busy hard drive, audio stutters, picture freezing and unreliable recording ability.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jjohns said:


> I wonder which one will be the one with the busy hard drive, audio stutters, picture freezing and unreliable recording ability.


Cable DVR?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> DirecTV calls the shots on specifications...so the Tivo folks will have to code to those...


You sound very much like you're hoping for continued mediocrity.

I don't believe DirecTV calls the shots on *all* the specifications. If they succeed in doing so, then the MPEG4 TiVo will be a loser straight out of the gate: more dollars for the same problems.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Stuart Sweet;2287520 There will be two DVR lines said:


> Could it be?? (for better or worse) TWO CE programs? I smell a new anticipation.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I would be extraordinarily surprised if there were anything resembling CE for TiVo. I mean, very very very surprised.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> You sound very much like you're hoping for continued mediocrity.
> 
> I don't believe DirecTV calls the shots on *all* the specifications.


Why do some people insist on repeatedly twisting other people's words just to promote their own negative agenda? 

Didn't say any such thing...common sense prevails - here is the 9/3/08 Press release exact description:

Under the terms of the non-exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform.

If DirecTV didn't call the shots on the specs...and since it runs on their hardware...the darn thing would never work in a DirecTV world.

Tivo will need to code to and test with DirecTV's hardware specifications.


Stuart Sweet said:


> I would be extraordinarily surprised if there were anything resembling CE for TiVo. I mean, very very very surprised.


Agree - Tivo is not at all likely to expose their proprietary stuff to non-Tivo personnel.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

gregjones said:


> You are making repeated assertions based on opinions. They do not seem to coincide with business logic.


I make assertions based on logic, fact and opinions. That is what this Forum is all about. Sharing Opinions and Facts and Ideas and Logical Assumptions. I would not have to do this if Directv would call me and tell me what their Business Plan is and the logic behind it.

They haven't called me lately but I will check my Email and Voice Mail again to see if they called or emailed me. In lieu of that I will continue to make assertions based on my opinion sometimes along with facts and logic.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Why do some people insist on repeatedly twisting other people's words just to promote their own negative agenda?  Didn't say any such thing.


Sorry for attributing the wrong slant to your statement. When someone says "DirecTV calls the shots on specifications," I tend to think of DirecTV's marketing specifications, which require the crippling of Search in order to push PPV/VOD sales. IMO, such crippling, and/or copying DirecTV's mistakes like press-and-hold functions, would doom the MPEG4 TiVo.


hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree [would be extraordinarily surprised if there were anything resembling CE for TiVo] -- TiVo is not at all likely to expose their proprietary stuff to non-TiVo personnel.


What proprietary stuff is currently exposed? To which non-DirecTV personnel? I'm not seeing any proprietary stuff.

Maybe TiVo will have something better than the CE program. By that I mean they might actually engage in conversations with their dedicated users, as they have done in the past. Or they might actually work on fixing prominent bugs rather than merely adding often-unwanted features.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Sorry for attributing the wrong slant to your statement.


Thanks - forgotten. 


> What proprietary stuff is currently exposed? To which non-DirecTV personnel? I'm not seeing any proprietary stuff.
> 
> Maybe TiVo will have something better than the CE program. By that I mean they might actually engage in conversations with their dedicated users, as they have done in the past. Or they might actually work on fixing prominent bugs rather than merely adding often-unwanted features.


In order for Tivo to write code that needs to work on DirecTV hardware...there will need to be an exchange of all sorts of NDA-based information during a testing process. This happens in the tech world all the time, and it indeed includes proprietary content.

As for non-DirecTV personnel...was referring to any 3rd parties involved in any testing process.

Field testing would theoretically be possible, but Tivo does not have a history of engaging in that practice, and based on all the hacking of their older generation unit codes - likely not the stomach for it now either. Don't see it happening.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> ...
> Maybe TiVo will have something better than the CE program. By that I mean they might actually engage in conversations with their dedicated users, as they have done in the past. Or they might actually work on fixing prominent bugs rather than merely adding often-unwanted features.


That seems like snide way to knock the CE program & programmers.  Do you really think the programmers don't work on fixing prominent bugs? Really? :nono2:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> That seems like snide way to knock the CE program & programmers.  Do you really think the programmers don't work on fixing prominent bugs? Really? :nono2:


I believe he already responded and revised his statement on this 3 posts back.

In the mean time...when the 1Q 2010 version of this thread comes out...at least it will be closer to the launch...


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> That seems like snide way to knock the CE program & programmers.  Do you really think the programmers don't work on fixing prominent bugs? Really? :nono2:


It's my way of saying I miss the great feedback I got when I was a TiVo beta tester.

And yes, I really think the programmers don't work on fixing prominent bugs. Not out of choice, but because they're required to add features instead -- for their marketing value.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> It's my way of saying I miss the great feedback I got when I was a TiVo beta tester.
> 
> And yes, I really think the programmers don't work on fixing prominent bugs. Not out of choice, but because they're required to add features instead -- for their marketing value.


They normally have teams assigned to do various things. Some work on Hot Topic Bugs and some work on Enhancements, all directed by their immediate supervisors and their immediate supervisors. They have an agenda that is Prioritized and they follow it. The job of mangers is to Manage and the job of Programmers is to follow the dictates of their manager's assigned priority list.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This isn't a thread about the DIRECTV developers. Let's keep it to topic, please.


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

I just had a horrible thought, what if the hardware is ready and the Tivo software is ready but there is a condition in the contract that says that both versions have to be released at the same time. If we are waiting on the Directv software developers to finish their version of the software we might be waiting until 2012 based on past performance.


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## HiDefGator (Nov 20, 2005)

I believe it says they have to start paying Tivo minimum payments in feb 2010. directv can pay the minimum and wait as long as they want to release the new box.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

bdcottle said:


> I just had a horrible thought, what if the hardware is ready and the Tivo software is ready but there is a condition in the contract that says that both versions have to be released at the same time. If we are waiting on the Directv software developers to finish their version of the software we might be waiting until 2012 based on past performance.


What a slam. (sham slam if you asked me...) 

TiVo has a tremendous history of extremely slow software releases. I contend much worse than DIRECTV's. DIRECTV is almost caught up to TiVo in features and only been at this a about a third of the time TiVo has been...

My guess is all the delays at this point are TiVos. Mostly based upon the bits of the contract we've seen and the press releases from both companies.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Mostly based merely upon love for DirecTV and disdain for TiVo. Both unwarranted. IMO.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Mostly based merely upon love for DirecTV and disdain for TiVo. Both unwarranted. IMO.


I don't mean to "disdain" TiVo that much. They are slow, but have done some good, creative things--albeit slowly. 

Nor do I think I'm overly in "love" with DIRECTV. They have more polishing and features to finish. We all know that. 

But watching Dish Network go thru their design problems, DIRECTV thru their problems, and TiVo thru theirs, I'm impressed how quickly DIRECTV has achieved the level of features they have. And introduced some very nice creative features as well.

And feel free to put some numbers or data to refute my statements.... 

Cheers,
Tom


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> TiVo has a tremendous history of extremely slow software releases.


The number or frequency of releases isn't nearly as important as what gets fixed. DIRECTV seems to have issues with finishing one feature before they start several others.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> I don't mean to "disdain" TiVo that much. They are slow, but have done some good, creative things--albeit slowly.
> 
> Nor do I think I'm overly in "love" with DIRECTV. They have more polishing and features to finish. We all know that.
> 
> ...


+1

I went thru the Birthing Pains of HR10-250 and now I am going thru it again with the HR2Xs but definitely alot Faster!!!

Tom said "I don't mean to "disdain" TiVo that much. They are slow, but have done some good, creative things--albeit slowly."

I say "Maybe DIRECTV needs to go at a little SLOWER pace so they have enough time to do ADEQUATE TESTING on their Software Enhancements and Debugging Processes!!!".


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> I believe it says they have to start paying Tivo minimum payments in feb 2010. directv can pay the minimum and wait as long as they want to release the new box.


So TIVO has a good reason to delays it, get paid for nothing, sounds like the goverment


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> So TIVO has a good reason to delays it, get paid for nothing, sounds like the goverment


How about govt contractors?

OK, back to topic:
Just got a Samsung Blu-ray player with Netflix streaming this weekend. That, combined with the new features D* has added to the HRs this year means I no longer plan on getting a TiVo next year.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> I went thru the Birthing Pains of HR10-250 and now I am going thru it again with the HR2Xs but definitely alot Faster!!!


Do you mean the SD DirecTiVo's? I ask because I had one of the first HR10-250's that shipped and the only early issues I recall folks having were hardware issues.... mainly problems with the HDMI failing, IIRC. Otherwise, the software was pretty much the same s/w the standard def TiVo's had already been running for a couple of years, so it was pretty much fully-debugged by the time the HR10 was released.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bdcottle said:


> I just had a horrible thought, what if the hardware is ready and the Tivo software is ready but there is a condition in the contract that says that both versions have to be released at the same time. If we are waiting on the Directv software developers to finish their version of the software we might be waiting until 2012 based on past performance.


LOL. And when exactly was the last time Tivo delivered anything on time?
Cough....cough...Comcast Tivo 2 yrs late and still very buggy...cough...cough....


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Problem is - every (unwanted) feature D* delivers comes with a new bug.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jjohns said:


> Problem is - every (unwanted) feature D* delivers comes with a new bug.


Hopefully they don't add those awesome Tivo features like ordering Pizza and pause ads. :lol:


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

jjohns said:


> Problem is - every (unwanted) feature D* delivers comes with a new bug.


unwanted to you may be wanted by someone else

But still, they need to do a better job finding and fixing problems before NR.

We've had three releases in the past 18 months that were pulled due to major problems. (0251, 02CA, 034B)

This should never happen. And when it happens repeatedly, you begin to think someone is asleep at the wheel.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I remind all involved (again) that this is not the right thread to discuss your dissatisfaction with the HR2x series DVRs.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> Do you mean the SD DirecTiVo's? I ask because I had one of the first HR10-250's that shipped and the only early issues I recall folks having were hardware issues.... mainly problems with the HDMI failing, IIRC. Otherwise, the software was pretty much the same s/w the standard def TiVo's had already been running for a couple of years, so it was pretty much fully-debugged by the time the HR10 was released.


There were some software problems but you are right alot of hardware problems such as bad HDMI Port, software downloads that suspiciously caused hard drive failures or symptoms of hard drive failure, HR10-250s locking up, massive pixellation problems.

I had to have Weakness swap out 2 of my drives and they weren't that old and it was right after an Infamous Software Download that caused alot of problems such as mine.

The first year was not pretty as I recall.

I was actually the First Person to buy and activate an HR10-250 with Robert of Valueelectronics.com. I was the First because I had it Overnighted to me and most others just did the UPS Ground.

I was the King for a week or two, very exciting.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> I was the King for a week or two, very exciting.


:lol: I actually live in the same town as Robert, but I pre-ordered too late to get in on the first round. Otherwise I could have driven over and picked it up. I wound up getting the first HR10 that shipped to my closest Circuit City. Paid $1100 for it, IIRC! What was I thinking?????

Actually, I had just shelled out many multiples of that for my first 55" HD plasma, and I needed to "feed" it with some HD programming quickly. Early adoption is expensive!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

My First 50" Fujitsu Plasma was $14,000 (what was I thinking, I actually paid $7,500 thru a friend of mine who is in the Home Theater Business and owed me a favor) and I just bought not too long ago an LCD that looks better for $4,500 and now they are under $3,000. I wanna CRY!!!

It costs alot to Live on The Bleeding Edge!!! :lol:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Yeah, most of us aren't liable to call ourselves "Richie Rich," either. 

The only time I could afford to be on the Bleeding Edge was when I got a very early SA TiVo directly from TiVo Inc before they were in stores. Only $500 (13.6 GB disk), and the alternative (for me) would've been to wait 8 months for Sony to manufacture a $1000 Beta VCR for me. The TiVo had better PQ than the best Beta! And S-VHS? Fuggedaboudit!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> Yeah, most of us aren't liable to call ourselves "Richie Rich," either.


Got Lucky in the Stock Market at the right time with the right Investment Strategy and then got out and socked it away!!!


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Hey Folks, While I love a good discussion, lets please get back to the topic of DirecTV's upcoming HD Tivo before a mod has to come in here and clean up or lock out...


:backtotop


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

What is the latest gossip on the release of this HD TiVo box for DirecTV? (Sorry, this thread is huge, I'm not inclined to read the entire thing and the first post is out of date since the links don't work when I tried them, errors on locations of documents).


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Hey Folks, While I love a good discussion, lets please get back to the topic of DirecTV's upcoming HD Tivo before a mod has to come in here and clean up or lock out...
> 
> 
> :backtotop


Good thinking


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

smiddy said:


> What is the latest gossip on the release of this HD TiVo box for DirecTV? (Sorry, this thread is huge, I'm not inclined to read the entire thing and the first post is out of date since the links don't work when I tried them, errors on locations of documents).


We've decided to take Jeremy W's approach of 'Its not coming'.

DirecTVs hardware, Tivos Firmware
Is one waiting on the other?
Not to be a DirecTV fan but there has been some conjecture that Tivo is immensely slow at writing/releasing it's firmware (maybe not so much the updates, though).
Does that mean DirecTV is "quick" at building the hardware? Or releasing it's very own firmware? Nah, not really.

//EDIT: And by we, I have no idea who it is I am referring to.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

CJTE said:


> We've decided to take Jeremy W's approach of 'Its not coming'.
> 
> DirecTVs hardware, Tivos Firmware
> Is one waiting on the other?
> ...


!rolling Thanks! The last thing I saw was that Q1 2010 an HD TiVo box for DirecTV, hardware and software by TiVo...but from what you're saying perhaps there is a combination of hardware from DirecTV and Software from TiVo...interesting.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

It will be TiVo Software running on a Directv Platform conforming to Directv Specifications and will probably be out around 3rd Quarter 2010 if you have ever followed any of the former product releases as things always develop that slow down the final release of the product so they can get it right.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

All I can say is it's been a while since we've heard anything about this device. It should be interesting to see if it's shown at TiVo's booth at CES (if they have one...)

That still won't mean much though, as the Dish VIP922 was shown and demo'd publicly back in CES09 and there's still no sight of it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I will let you know as I am going to Las Vegas for the CES Convention in January.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

smiddy said:


> What is the latest gossip on the release of this HD TiVo box for DirecTV? (Sorry, this thread is huge, I'm not inclined to read the entire thing and the first post is out of date since the links don't work when I tried them, errors on locations of documents).


I think the middle of the road view on the board is that it's coming sometime in 2010 (Q2 perhaps). The release has clearly been delayed beyond the original Q4 2009 target. There is very little public info, but some idle speculation that TiVo might show a mockup (or beta) at this years CES.

Some posters speculate it will never be released. I think that is dead wrong, based upon continued public announcements by both companies over the last year and hints that beta testing (under NDA) is either ongoing or about to begin.

An MPEG4 HD DirecTV TiVo is a big plus for both DirecTV and TiVo. I personally expect to have a new TiVo in time for the 2010 football season.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I think the middle of the road view on the board is that it's coming sometime in 2010 (Q2 perhaps). The release has clearly been delayed beyond the original Q4 2009 target. There is very little public info, but some idle speculation that TiVo might show a mockup (or beta) at this years CES.
> 
> Some posters speculate it will never be released. I think that is dead wrong, based upon continued public announcements by both companies over the last year and hints that beta testing (under NDA) is either ongoing or about to begin.
> 
> An MPEG4 HD DirecTV TiVois a big plus for both DirecTV and TiVo. I personally expect to have a new TiVo in time for the 2010 football season.


Thanks!


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> All I can say is it's been a while since we've heard anything about this device. It should be interesting to see if it's shown at TiVo's booth at CES (if they have one...)
> 
> That still won't mean much though, as the Dish VIP922 was shown and demo'd publicly back in CES09 and there's still no sight of it.


Has anyone heard if DirecTV will be at the show, or will they be keeping a low profile?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

loudo said:


> Has anyone heard if DirecTV will be at the show, or will they be keeping a low profile?


DIRECTV will not be at CES 2010


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

loudo said:


> Has anyone heard if DirecTV will be at the show, or will they be keeping a low profile?


I heard that they will not be at the 2010 CES Show and I am disappointed to hear that. Maybe it will change but at this time I have not heard different.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> It will be TiVo Software running on a Directv Platform conforming to Directv Specifications and will probably be out around 3rd Quarter 2010 if you have ever followed any of the former product releases as things always develop that slow down the final release of the product so they can get it right.


I personally don't think the TiVo will be designed to run on the existing HR2x hardware, which is now roughly 3 years old. I think it will run on new hardware jointly designed by DirecTV and TiVo.

Why?

1. Much faster hardware and larger hard drives can now be had at reasonable cost.

2. It is a lot easier to write quality code for a fast box than a slow box.

3. A lot of the HR2x units will soon be nearing the end of their useful lives.

4. TiVo is not going to want to face the recurring problems with slow response time that the HR2x programmers currently deal with.

5. The new product needs to be fast and flashy to get users to pay extra.

That being said, I would not be at all surprised if DirecTV's own software also runs on the new/similar/identical under the hood hardware at some point in the near the future. (Let's call that the HR3x)


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Some posters speculate it will never be released. I think that is dead wrong, based upon continued public announcements by both companies over the last year and hints that beta testing (under NDA) is either ongoing or about to begin.


A little device known as the HD-PC20 was shown at CES, was in a private beta test, and was canned. Public announcements and hints of beta testing mean very little. Release *dates* (not timeframes) mean more, but a product in your hands is really all that matters.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> A little device known as the HD-PC20 was shown at CES, was in a private beta test, and was canned. Public announcements and hints of beta testing mean very little. Release *dates* (not timeframes) mean more, but a product in your hands is really all that matters.


While I agree, the HD-PC20 went through a couple of iteration to where it ended up, I disagree public announcements and hints of beta testing mean a lot to the clammering public, who salavate over getting them goodies, and some goodies do come to fruition. Now, confirmed dates on release mean a lot more, but public announcements are good as well, just in a different manner.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Nicholsen said:


> I personally don't think the TiVo will be designed to run on the existing HR2x hardware, which is now roughly 3 years old. I think it will run on new hardware jointly designed by DirecTV and TiVo.
> 
> That being said, I would not be at all surprised if DirecTV's own software also runs on the new/similar/identical under the hood hardware at some point in the near the future. (Let's call that the HR3x)


Here is what Directv said:

Under the terms of the non-exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform.

You can take that anyway you want to!!!


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> A little device known as the HD-PC20 was shown at CES, was in a private beta test, and was canned. Public announcements and hints of beta testing mean very little. Release *dates* (not timeframes) mean more, but a product in your hands is really all that matters.


It's not like TiVo have never successfully built a HD DVR for DirecTV before. I am very disappointed by the delay, but think the product will see the light of day this year.

TiVo has every reason to deliver this product. They need the added market share and the revenue. They also have an incentive to see that it is solid before it goes to customers, even if that delays delivery. I am not sure the D* user base would be happy if they shipped it and it was not pretty solid.

No one really had a vested interest in the HD-PC20. (It might have been a great product. It's too bad it died.)


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> Here is what Directv said:
> 
> Under the terms of the non-exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform.
> 
> You can take that anyway you want to!!!


I may be wrong, but am never in doubt! 

You are right. The official announcement you quote is both cryptic and ambiguous, which is quite an achievement.

Is a new HR25 or Hr3x with much better hardware specified in consultation with TiVo part of "DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Nicholsen said:


> I may be wrong, but am never in doubt!
> 
> You are right. The official announcement you quote is both cryptic and ambiguous, which is quite an achievement.
> 
> Is a new HR25 or Hr3x with much better hardware specified in consultation with TiVo part of "DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform?


I would hope that it is Implicitly and Intuitively Equivocated but we can't be sure. Hopefully there will be a Mutual Agreement to have an Optimal Hardware Platform that will both support Directv's Software Direction and Efforts as well as TiVo's Software Enhancements that Directv currently does not possess.

It could be the Best of Both Worlds. :hurah:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> It's not like TiVo have never successfully built a HD DVR for DirecTV before. I am very disappointed by the delay, but think the product will see the light of day this year.


If by "this year" you mean 2009, then no. But more likely you mean within the next year and I'd say that all signs point towards that being true.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

smiddy said:


> I disagree public announcements and hints of beta testing mean a lot to the clammering public


Well then, it's a good thing I said the opposite. :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Nicholsen said:


> It's not like TiVo have never successfully built a HD DVR for DirecTV before. I am very disappointed by the delay, but think the product will see the light of day this year.
> 
> TiVo has every reason to deliver this product. They need the added market share and the revenue. They also have an incentive to see that it is solid before it goes to customers, even if that delays delivery. I am not sure the D* user base would be happy if they shipped it and it was not pretty solid.
> 
> No one really had a vested interest in the HD-PC20. (It might have been a great product. It's too bad it died.)


I guess it all depends upon what you mean by light of day... In someone's hands at TiVo and you have a chance. Maybe. 

In beta test by end of year? I don't think so, but there is a slim chance.

For sale to public? Not a chance. Even TiVo has been predicting next year for some time now. (Maybe a sighting of a mock up at CES--but that is still next year.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If by "this year" you mean 2009, then no. But more likely you mean within the next year and I'd say that all signs point towards that being true.


You are correct, of course. I have already put 2009 behind me, at least for all things TiVo.


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## PkDog (Jul 24, 2009)

Shown below is Tivo's current statement about the collaboration:

"It's official! TiVo and DIRECTV have renewed their partnership, which means a new HD DIRECTV DVR featuring the Emmy® award-winning TiVo service is expected to launch to support satellite customers in 2010.

New and current DIRECTV satellite service customers will have the option to enjoy a next-generation HD Digital Video Recorder — sold and distributed by DIRECTV — that supports both DIRECTV's incredible High-Definition programming and the TiVo service, including features like Universal Swivel™ Search and TiVo KidZone."

Some of the key points:

1) Launched in 2010 - nothing more specific
2) Next-generation Recorder -- used in the current context, this would seem to indicate newer hardware than the current HR2x
3) Specific Tivo software features that will be present -- nice to know some of the details


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Tom Robertson said:


> For sale to public? Not a chance. Even TiVo has been predicting next year for some time now. (*Maybe a sighting of a mock up at CES*--but that is still next year.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I'll be there at the CES in early January - so if its there, I'll let everyone know...


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'll be there at the CES in early January - so if its there, I'll let everyone know...


And take lots of pictures!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ATARI said:


> And take lots of pictures!


Oh he will, believe me he will!!!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

PkDog said:


> 2) Next-generation Recorder -- used in the current context, this would seem to indicate newer hardware than the current HR2x


TiVo is providing software. That's not sufficient reason to believe that it will necessarily involve new hardware.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> TiVo is providing software. That's not sufficient reason to believe that it will necessarily involve new hardware.


Gotta agree with this one ...


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

PkDog said:


> 2) Next-generation Recorder -- used in the current context, this would seem to indicate newer hardware than the current HR2x


Actually, that could easily be interpreted as "newer than the last time TiVo released a DirecTV DVR." For TiVo, the HR2x platform is newer. For current HR2x users, it is the status quo.

Wishing doesn't make it come true. They may use new hardware that will also be used for DirecTV's DVRs. I feel fairly certain they will not develop a seperate proprietary hardware line just for TiVo. But assuming it based on that line is fallacy.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yup, and "Next-Generation" may simply mean a DVR that support MPEG-4 ..


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ATARI said:


> And take lots of pictures!


Part of the job sir. :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2009)

HDTVFan can you see if DTV plans on bringing back the HD Tuner for the PC? I think if the dropped the external one maybe they are thinking about doing an internal HD Tuner with MPeg 4 and have a dual or multiple HD Tuners.

I would also think it would be cool DTV partnered with Sony and made the PS3 and PS4 DTV HD DVR's.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'll be there at the CES in early January - so if its there, I'll let everyone know...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> HDTVFan can you see if DTV plans on bringing back the HD Tuner for the PC? I think if the dropped the external one maybe they are thinking about doing an internal HD Tuner with MPeg 4 and have a dual or multiple HD Tuners.
> 
> I would also think it would be cool DTV partnered with Sony and made the PS3 and PS4 DTV HD DVR's.


Let me take this one ..

(1) DIRECTV will not be at CES 2010 with anything

(2) The PC Tuner thing is dead


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Let me take this one ..
> 
> (1) DIRECTV will not be at CES 2010 with anything
> 
> (2) The PC Tuner thing is dead


Thanks Doug. 

I'm just a free-lance roving unpaid slacker reporter at the CES anyway.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm just a free-lance roving unpaid slacker reporter at the CES anyway.


Yeah, but you do take Great Pictures!!! :hurah:


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## kog (Jul 11, 2007)

harsh said:


> TiVo is providing software. That's not sufficient reason to believe that it will necessarily involve new hardware.


True, but I think the current HR2x series of hardware might be a bit under powered for what they'd need. Of course that could also be the reason why Tivo is so late on this. They're trying to shoehorn their big software load onto some under powered box (like they did for Comcast).. Ugh... really hope that's not true.

Here's another thought, maybe it'll be a software load on that whole house home networked DVR that DirecTV's been hinting at the last year or two?


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2009)

Sorry I didn't know DTV would not be at CES. Are you really, really sure the DTV PC Tuner is dead? Maybe they have decided to go internal instead of external. Unless you couldn't do the access card slot in an internal tuner card?



Doug Brott said:


> Let me take this one ..
> 
> (1) DIRECTV will not be at CES 2010 with anything
> 
> (2) The PC Tuner thing is dead


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Sorry I didn't know DTV would not be at CES. Are you really, really sure the DTV PC Tuner is dead? Maybe they have decided to go internal instead of external. Unless you couldn't do the access card slot in an internal tuner card?


yup, I'm pretty sure of this one ..


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kog said:


> Here's another thought, maybe it'll be a software load on that whole house home networked DVR that DirecTV's been hinting at the last year or two?


Doubtful. That would require Tivo software on non-DVR receivers, which is highly unlikely.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Maybe they have decided to go internal instead of external. Unless you couldn't do the access card slot in an internal tuner card?


IIRC, it was originally going to be internal, but they decided to go external for some reason which I can't remember. But it's definitely not the access card slot, because there are PCI satellite tuners out there that have access card slots.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Originally the PCI card for DTV (and for Dish too) built by Broadlogic in 1997.


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## kog (Jul 11, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Doubtful. That would require Tivo software on non-DVR receivers, which is highly unlikely.


Hmm... Didn't think of that. I just hope it's not on the HR2x hardware platform. I don't hear good things about it from one of my friends who works at DTV QA. They constantly complain about the speed of those things... and the Tivo software is not exactly lightweight these days.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kog said:


> I just hope it's not on the HR2x hardware platform. I don't hear good things about it from one of my friends who works at DTV QA. They constantly complain about the speed of those things... and the Tivo software is not exactly lightweight these days.


The Tivo Series3 uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR20. The Tivo HD uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR21-23. So speed is not an issue.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The Tivo Series3 uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR20. The Tivo HD uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR21-23. So speed is not an issue.


Which is also why I thought we'd have at least been beta testing a new DirecTiVo by now. I thought TiVo would try to stave off as much HR10-HR2x attrition as quickly as possible by simply porting the HR10 s/w to one of the existing HR2x models, and then follow that up with a 2010 release that might have had "sexier" features. If I were a TiVo shareholder, I'd be upset they opted to trade significant monthly subscription revenues to wait for the "HR24", if that's indeed what happened.

Or perhaps the "HR24" platform was what was originally agreed to when the deal was first struck, back in the fall of '08, because TiVo wanted some input into its design specs? All pure speculation, but fun to debate.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The Tivo Series3 uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR20. The Tivo HD uses the same Broadcom CPU as the HR21-23. So speed is not an issue.





Steve said:


> Which is also why I thought we'd have at least been beta testing a new DirecTiVo by now. I thought TiVo would try to stave off as much HR10-HR2x attrition as quickly as possible by simply porting the HR10 s/w to one of the existing HR2x models, and then follow that up with a 2010 release that might have had "sexier" features. If I were a TiVo shareholder, I'd be upset they opted to trade significant monthly subscription revenues to wait for the "HR24", if that's indeed what happened.
> 
> Or perhaps the "HR24" platform was what was originally agreed to when the deal was first struck, back in the fall of '08, because TiVo wanted some input into its design specs? All pure speculation, but fun to debate.


Guys, we don't know what we don't know. We will know once it is announced however, and that should be some time in Q1 2010 (hopefully earlier than later).


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Steve said:


> Which is also why I thought we'd have at least been beta testing a new DirecTiVo by now. I thought TiVo would try to stave off as much HR10-HR2x attrition as quickly as possible by simply porting the HR10 s/w to one of the existing HR2x models, and then follow that up with a 2010 release that might have had "sexier" features. If I were a TiVo shareholder, I'd be upset they opted to trade significant monthly subscription revenues to wait for the "HR24", if that's indeed what happened.
> 
> Or perhaps the "HR24" platform was what was originally agreed to when the deal was first struck, back in the fall of '08, because TiVo wanted some input into its design specs? All pure speculation, but fun to debate.


maybe they with beta software / tv apps stuff they have now.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

smiddy said:


> Guys, we don't know what we don't know.


Well, we do know which CPUs are used in which devices. I actually wasn't talking out of my behind on that one! :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Will DTV do Tivo prices like this, $10 HD Fee, $5 DVR Fee, $5-$10 Tivo fee?

If so I think I would just uprgrade to an HR-24 unless the HR-24 is not that much different from the HR-22 besides the HR-24 having the wide band tuner? I am just worried about the BBC's failing on the HR-22.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It may prove valuable not to get hung up on the idea of the HR24 being functionally different from the existing HR2x series. Remember that there have been no hints as to a model number, feature set nor much of anything else for the TiVo enabled receiver.

The successively numbered versions have typically proven to be cost reductions as opposed to major speed or capability upgrades.

Yes, Virginia, we _can_ ignore the increased hard drive sizes as the drives themselves are the mainstream cost equivalents of their predecessors.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> It may prove valuable not to get hung up on the idea of the HR24 being functionally different from the existing HR2x series. Remember that there have been no hints as to a model number, feature set nor much of anything else for the TiVo enabled receiver.
> 
> The successively numbered versions have typically proven to be cost reductions as opposed to major speed or capability upgrades.
> 
> Yes, Virginia, we _can_ ignore the increased hard drive sizes as the drives themselves are the mainstream cost equivalents of their predecessors.


It's all speculation, which there is no harm in being optimistic or in your case pessimistic about the next offering by DirecTV. It is curious though, why do you interject when you aren't a paying customer of DirecTV? Is it you mantra to destroy the dreams of those anticipating anything? Please don't it is no fun (at least for the vast majority of us; perhaps for you this is fun?).


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

harsh said:


> It may prove valuable not to get hung up on the idea of the HR24 being functionally different from the existing HR2x series. Remember that there have been no hints as to a model number, feature set nor much of anything else for the TiVo enabled receiver.
> 
> The successively numbered versions have typically proven to be cost reductions as opposed to major speed or capability upgrades.
> 
> Yes, Virginia, we _can_ ignore the increased hard drive sizes as the drives themselves are the mainstream cost equivalents of their predecessors.


What about not needing the BBC's on the HR-24? Would that be worth the price upgrading? I am just worried about the BBC's failing and having to go out and buy new ones. I guess the internal wide band tuners could fail also? I guess the DTV Tivo will have wide band tuners built in also?


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Will DTV do Tivo prices like this, $10 HD Fee, $5 DVR Fee, $5-$10 Tivo fee?
> 
> If so I think I would just uprgrade to an HR-24 unless the HR-24 is not that much different from the HR-22 besides the HR-24 having the wide band tuner? I am just worried about the BBC's failing on the HR-22.


If you are concerned about BBC's failing (never had it happen) but DirecTV will be happy to send you spares..


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

LarryFlowers said:


> If you are concerned about BBC's failing (never had it happen) but DirecTV will be happy to send you spares..


Yeh but then you have to wait for them.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Yeh but then you have to wait for them.


I promise to send them to you if they fail, since I'm somewhat around the corner from you...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

smiddy said:


> It's all speculation, which there is no harm in being optimistic or in your case pessimistic about the next offering by DirecTV.


That would be fine in a speculation thread about a future DIRECTV branded broadband enabled HD DVR. As it is, this is the speculation thread for the third generation TiVo enabled DVR.

There's not much information out there to support that an HR24 will even exist, much less that the TiVo enabled unit will be it. Conventional thought holds that if there were a significant departure from the HR2x platform, such a device should be designated as an HR3x and have an entirely different product line name (Extreme, for example).

Just as the absence of a diagram depicting the Whole Home DVR shouldn't cause you to infer that they've been dropped, the presence of H24 and HR24 model numbers in a diagram shouldn't carry a lot of weight as a basis for determining where DIRECTV is going.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

harsh said:


> That would be fine in a speculation thread about a future DIRECTV branded broadband enabled HD DVR. As it is, this is the speculation thread for the third generation TiVo enabled DVR.
> 
> There's not much information out there to support that an HR24 will even exist, much less that the TiVo enabled unit will be it. Conventional thought holds that if there were a significant departure from the HRnd2x platform, such a device should be designated as an HR3x and have an entirely different product line name (Extreme, for example).
> 
> Just as the absence of a diagram depicting the Whole Home DVR shouldn't cause you to infer that they've been dropped, the presence of H24 and HR24 model numbers in a diagram shouldn't carry a lot of weight as a basis for determining where DIRECTV is going.


I wonder how much more of broadband DTV plans to pump into their broadband DVR's? I know I did that thread about a web browser on their DVR's and some didn't like that idea but their are news articles out about the ever increasing merging of the Web and TV's. So you got think DTV is thinking about that? Or maybe they will expand their Active Channel with more Internet news content?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wonder how much more of broadband DTV plans to pump into their broadband DVR's? I know I did that thread about a web browser on their DVR's and some didn't like that idea but their are news articles out about the ever increasing merging of the Web and TV's. So you got think DTV is thinking about that? Or maybe they will expand their Active Channel with more Internet news content?


There's actually a fear that inclusion of the TiVo engine will bring downloaded advertising with it. It is thought that other TiVo download services would not be offered as that would compete with DIRECTV's own products.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

harsh said:


> There's actually a fear that inclusion of the TiVo engine will bring downloaded advertising with it. It is thought that other TiVo download services would not be offered as that would compete with DIRECTV's own products.


What other broadband features do you think DTV will add? I know that they have those new apps but they are nothing special and plus you have to have a wifi router hooked up in order to use them which I don't like. It adds one more box.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

CraigerCSM said:


> What about not needing the BBC's on the HR-24? Would that be worth the price upgrading? I am just worried about the BBC's failing and having to go out and buy new ones. I guess the internal wide band tuners could fail also? I guess the DTV Tivo will have wide band tuners built in also?


Consider this...
The internal tuners on the HR-24 handle all the tuning for the receiver, so if the wideband portion fails, the whole tuner most-likely fails.
Whereas the BBCs being external are easy to replace if they fail.

I'd rather swap BBCs than swap receivers.
And you can always order an extra set ahead of time. I think Ive got 6 floating around here and I only have 2 HD DVRs.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Consider this...
> The internal tuners on the HR-24 handle all the tuning for the receiver, so if the wideband portion fails, the whole tuner most-likely fails.
> Whereas the BBCs being external are easy to replace if they fail.
> 
> I'd rather swap BBCs than swap receivers.


It has not been shown that the wideband tuners are any more likely to fail than the non-wideband tuners. All of this FUD is completely unfounded.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CJTE said:


> Consider this...
> The internal tuners on the HR-24 handle all the tuning for the receiver, so if the wideband portion fails, the whole tuner most-likely fails.
> Whereas the BBCs being external are easy to replace if they fail.
> 
> ...


??? Do you have extra HDMI Ports? Disk drives? Power supplies?

How about capacitors, resistors, and push buttons?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> ??? Do you have extra HDMI Ports? Disk drives? Power supplies?
> 
> How about capacitors, resistors, and push buttons?


Don't forget the IR and RF receivers for the remote. Also Ethernet ports and SATA cables. *THEY COULD ALL FAIL!!!!!!!!*


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

CJTE said:


> Consider this...
> The internal tuners on the HR-24 handle all the tuning for the receiver, so if the wideband portion fails, the whole tuner most-likely fails.
> Whereas the BBCs being external are easy to replace if they fail.
> 
> ...


I haven't heard yet of ONE wideband tuner failing but I have heard of countless BBCs failing so maybe that is why they went with the Wideband Tuner as it was more reliable.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

richierich said:


> I haven't heard yet of ONE wideband tuner failing but I have heard of countless BBCs failing so maybe that is why they went with the Wideband Tuner as it was more reliable.


Why did DIRECTV go with wide-band tuners? Simpler is better, by far. 

Wide band tuners don't get lost.  They don't have cable problems. They don't get removed by under-informed installers (I no longer mean the DIRECTV installers, but more the self or best buddy installers...) 

Oh, and they don't fail like BBCs, just as you point out. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

I find it amazing how little information there is in this thread. When compared to the D12 thread. Even on the pipeline of the HD channels, we know more thanks to the mapping done by Sixto and the pop ins by the racer. There is nothing here that is concrete about the DTiVo. I am not sure what to make of that. There are always leaks about products prior to their release.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> ??? Do you have extra HDMI Ports? Disk drives? Power supplies?
> 
> How about capacitors, resistors, and push buttons?


Disk Drives and power supplies... Access Card readers too! Capacitors and Resistors are easy to order online.

Im not saying the internal tuners are of any more or less quality than the external BBCs. Its been shown here that BBCs tend to fail. It just happens. I just don't think BBCs should be an excuse for spending more money or wasting time.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Getting :backtotop.
I'm "so excited" /sarcasm for its release! I just "can't wait!"


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> There's not much information out there to support that an HR24 will even exist, much less that the TiVo enabled unit will be it. Conventional thought holds that if there were a significant departure from the HR2x platform, such a device should be designated as an HR3x and have an entirely different product line name (Extreme, for example).
> 
> Just as the absence of a diagram depicting the Whole Home DVR shouldn't cause you to infer that they've been dropped, the presence of H24 and HR24 model numbers in a diagram shouldn't carry a lot of weight as a basis for determining where DIRECTV is going.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168522

Pages: 19 & 20 of the keynote


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> That would be fine in a speculation thread about a future DIRECTV branded broadband enabled HD DVR. As it is, this is the speculation thread for the third generation TiVo enabled DVR.
> 
> There's not much information out there to support that an HR24 will even exist, much less that the TiVo enabled unit will be it. Conventional thought holds that if there were a significant departure from the HR2x platform, such a device should be designated as an HR3x and have an entirely different product line name (Extreme, for example).
> 
> Just as the absence of a diagram depicting the Whole Home DVR shouldn't cause you to infer that they've been dropped, the presence of H24 and HR24 model numbers in a diagram shouldn't carry a lot of weight as a basis for determining where DIRECTV is going.


Why not, they are hints of things to come. Sure, they come from marketing, they help inspire the public on what is to come. Hyped up, yes! This is an Anticipation thread, and the HD TiVo device is coming, you can bet on that. There is nothing that I know of that can/should link the 24 (if it exists) to TiVo, but it is certainly ok to dream of the possibilities, much akin to brainstorming, but here it is anticipation.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

oldfantom said:


> I find it amazing how little information there is in this thread. When compared to the D12 thread.


Simple.

*D12* launch is 24 or so days away (based on public information) and actiavtion about 90 - 100 days later
*New HD Tivobox* has no delivery date made public, other than 1st half of 2010

Anything else on the new Tivobox.....is speculation and guessing.

Nothing amazing about it.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> I find it amazing how little information there is in this thread. When compared to the D12 thread. Even on the pipeline of the HD channels, we know more thanks to the mapping done by Sixto and the pop ins by the racer. There is nothing here that is concrete about the DTiVo. I am not sure what to make of that. There are always leaks about products prior to their release.


Well, given the Anticapatory nature of the thread, it is all speculation.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

oldfantom said:


> I find it amazing how little information there is in this thread. When compared to the D12 thread. Even on the pipeline of the HD channels, we know more thanks to the mapping done by Sixto and the pop ins by the racer. There is nothing here that is concrete about the DTiVo. I am not sure what to make of that. There are always leaks about products prior to their release.


Part of the reason there is so much info on D12 is DIRECTV must file requests for approvals from the FCC--which LameLefty and Sixto are extremely diligent in searching out for us.

And other "Doctors" of information peek into what's in the streams to give us great insights too. 

I'm pretty sure DIRECTV would rather not let their competitors know that much information, but that's the space biz. Especially when they have some very ravenous fans getting this information for us. 

As for the new DIRECTiVo's, neither company is required to file very much information other than "it's coming" documentation for the SEC and investors. Beyond that, mum's the word until the release date.

And since this is a TiVo run project, they most likely will use their very quiet beta testing programs when that time comes.

So the TiVotees (meant affectionately, by the way) will continue to review every scrap of information for hints to share with us. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> I find it amazing how little information there is in this thread. When compared to the D12 thread. Even on the pipeline of the HD channels, we know more thanks to the mapping done by Sixto and the pop ins by the racer. There is nothing here that is concrete about the DTiVo. I am not sure what to make of that. There are always leaks about products prior to their release.


TiVo has long been secretive about their development, there is no reason to think that this time around will be any different. The original Press Release said 2nd half of 2009 and at that point, I said it would be 1st quarter of 2010 simply because TiVo also has a history of being late (Yes, they have faults). To this point, I've heard very, very little myself. The best information we have is from the TiVo Conference calls as DIRECTV seems to be leaving the development effort entirely to TiVo.

-- Start Pure Speculation -- I have been told NOTHING regarding these comments --

I don't know exactly which box it's going to be, but I'm almost 100% positive that it will NOT be a specially designed piece of hardware for the TiVo. I do think it will be an existing HR2x but your guess is as good as mine as to which one or ones.

It would make the most sense for the HR23-700 to be the platform of choice for TiVo.


It's been in the field for a year now and is the newest of the pre-existing HR2x receivers - it was easy to put in the TiVo Engineers hands for getting the TiVo code ported long ago.
It has a 500GB HDD already
wideband tuners

Still, an argument can be made for the HR22 as well since new installations are going to go the SWM route. Makes the need for a wideband tuner go away. Wideband will soon only be needed in legacy installations. (Hard to believe the SL5 & SL3 are going to be legacy)

In any event, simple logic could get each of you to this same conclusion. Sure, wishful thinking will get you to a brand new receiver, but does it really make sense? I don't think so.

--- End Pure Speculation ---


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Tom Robertson said:


> Part of the reason there is so much info on D12 is DIRECTV must file requests for approvals from the FCC--which LameLefty and Sixto are extremely diligent in searching out for us.
> 
> And other "Doctors" of information peek into what's in the streams to give us great insights too.
> 
> ...


Tom do you see DTV doing this? $10 HD Fee, $5 DVR Fee and $5-10 Tivo Fee?


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Tom do you see DTV doing this? $10 HD Fee, $5 DVR Fee and $5-10 Tivo Fee?


I don't know that we've been given any clue Re: pricing. TiVo Seems like it's going to be positioned as a premium product which would mean additional cost (likely $5-$10 more), but anything regarding cost is just speculation. We don't know.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Tom do you see DTV doing this? $10 HD Fee, $5 DVR Fee and $5-10 Tivo Fee?


I'm guessing just like everyone else here. I see your structure as "possible", tho I suspect the TiVo fee might be per unit and therefore not quite so high.

Another possibility is there could be two types of DVR fees: Non-TiVo accounts at the current $5 and accounts with TiVos that have a higher fee of $8 or $10 to cover all the DVRs, both TiVo and Non-TiVo.

I just don't see "really high" fees like the current standalone fees. I think if TiVo had thought they could get that, it would have been even more prominent in the original press releases. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't know that we've been given any clue Re: pricing. TiVo Seems like it's going to be positioned as a premium product which would mean additional cost (likely $5-$10 more), but anything regarding cost is just speculation. We don't know.


I would like to get that DTV Tivo but if they do a Tivo fee I would just want to get the HR-24 and not pay an extra fee. I wonder if they had a Tivo fee how many DTV customers would want to pay extra for it?


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Tom Robertson said:


> I'm guessing just like everyone else here. I see your structure as "possible", tho I suspect the TiVo fee might be per unit and therefore not quite so high.
> 
> Another possibility is there could be two types of DVR fees: Non-TiVo accounts at the current $5 and accounts with TiVos that have a higher fee of $8 or $10 to cover all the DVRs, both TiVo and Non-TiVo.
> 
> ...


You mean raise the overall DVR fee from $5 to $10 a month plus the $10 HD fee? I wonder if having a DVR would be worth it paying $10 a month? That wouldn't seem fair to non Tivo users.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Whenever it comes out, I hope they consider putting PIP in it. I know some of you would never use it, but there are a few of us out here that would. It would better compete with E* and cable.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> You mean raise the overall DVR fee from $5 to $10 a month plus the $10 HD fee? I wonder if having a DVR would be worth it paying $10 a month? That wouldn't seem fair to non Tivo users.


No, I don't mean that. 

I'm saying if (and only if) you have any TiVos, you'd pay the higher DVR fee. If you have no TiVos, you'd continue to pay the same fees you do now.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Tom Robertson said:


> No, I don't mean that.
> 
> I'm saying if (and only if) you have any TiVos, you'd pay the higher DVR fee. If you have no TiVos, you'd continue to pay the same fees you do now.
> 
> ...


Ok I undestand now. Do you think paying extra for Tivo would be worth it?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Ok I undestand now. Do you think paying extra for Tivo would be worth it?


I'm a thrifty person in heritage, so I'd be very unlikely to pay extra for just the TiVo name... 

I'm happy with the DIRECTV DVRs and they are making more improvements everyday.

Cheers,
Tom

Note: Per FTC regulations, I disclose that I have beta tested services and equipment from multiple companies, including companies discussed in this thread.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Tom Robertson said:


> I'm a thrifty person in heritage, so I'd be very unlikely to pay extra for just the TiVo name...
> 
> I'm happy with the DIRECTV DVRs and they are making more improvements everyday.
> 
> ...


Have your heard of any cool improvements that are coming? I guess they will never add a web browser like I have suggested. I have also suggested adding more interactive news content like National and World News, TV Show and Movie News, Weekend Box Office Report, and TV Neilson Ratings. Maybe even Tech news. Expand the Weather forcast. I wonder if adding that stuff would bog down the system?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Whenever it comes out, I hope they consider putting PIP in it. I know some of you would never use it, but there are a few of us out here that would...


I know I speak for many HR10 users when I say that it's such a relief to have that box go quiet as soon as one presses the main menu ("TiVo") button. They should consider putting PIP in the MPEG4 TiVo only if it's optional.

[edit] Oops. I saw PIP and thought "PIG". To be clear: I don't like PIG; also, I almost never used PIP when my TV had it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I know I speak for many HR10 users when I say that it's such a relief to have that box go quiet as soon as one presses the main menu ("TiVo") button.


A relief? I'll never understand that. I always hated that about the Tivo.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> I would like to get that DTV Tivo but if they do a Tivo fee I would just want to get the HR-24 and not pay an extra fee. I wonder if they had a Tivo fee how many DTV customers would want to pay extra for it?


You might find it's worth the extra fee if you do any searching at all *and* if the MPEG4 TiVo doesn't follow orders from D* marketing requiring the pollution of search results with VOD, PPV, and channels you don't get. That alone (that is, not having to wade through tons of irrelevant search results) would justify the fee for me.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't know exactly which box it's going to be, but I'm almost 100% positive that it will NOT be a specially designed piece of hardware for the TiVo. I do think it will be an existing HR2x but your guess is as good as mine as to which one or ones.
> 
> It would make the most sense for the HR23-700 to be the platform of choice for TiVo.


I disagree, I think the HR24 would make the most sense. At the core, it'll undoubtedly be extremely similar to the HR23. But it'll have DECA built-in, which is something I assume Tivo would love.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> That alone (that is, not having to wade through tons of irrelevant search results) would justify the fee for me.


The fact that it doesn't run DirecTV's software is what justifies the fee for you. You're an HR2x basher.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2009)

Syzygy said:


> You might find it's worth the extra fee if you do any searching at all *and* if the MPEG4 TiVo doesn't follow orders from D* marketing requiring the pollution of search results with VOD, PPV, and channels you don't get. That alone (that is, not having to wade through tons of irrelevant search results) would justify the fee for me.


DTV's search feature is good.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The fact that it doesn't run DirecTV's software is what justifies the fee for you. You're an HR2x basher.


The HR2x *requires *bashing, exactly because of said search-result pollution. It's evil. I'd pay an extra fee (not too much; say, a dollar a month) to D* if my HR21 would allow me the right to use an actual, working CIG list to limit searches.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The HR2x *requires *bashing, exactly because of said search-result pollution. It's evil.


 is all I have to say to that.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Jeremy, if you can, I wish you'd check with your D* buddies to see what they think. I'll bet some of them also think that search-result pollution is evil. (Too bad they can't do anything about it.)


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Jeremy, if you can, I wish you'd check with your D* buddies to see what they think.


I have no buddies at DirecTV. And even if I did, why would I care what they think? I have my own opinions. Do I think the "pollution" is ideal? Of course not. Do I think it's evil? No. Would I pay a penny extra to get rid of it? No. Would I switch to another platform because of it? No.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168522
> 
> Pages: 19 & 20 of the keynote


What is it that your references are supposed to support?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Whenever it comes out, I hope they consider putting PIP in it. I know some of you would never use it, but there are a few of us out here that would. It would better compete with E* and cable.


If it is based on the HR2x platform, PIP is not possible.


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

CraigerCSM said:


> Yeh but then you have to wait for them.


so call and order them now while yours are still working, have 4 sitting in the spare parts drawer, just a simple application of advanced planning


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> What is it that your references are supposed to support?


Simplified installation and integrated broadband...


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> The HR2x *requires *bashing, exactly because of said search-result pollution. It's evil. I'd pay an extra fee (not too much; say, a dollar a month) to D* if my HR21 would allow me the right to use an actual, working CIG list to limit searches.


A whole dollar?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> If it is based on the HR2x platform, PIP is not possible.


Ignoring the fact that Dish uses the same chipset to do PIP... 

That said, I don't expect to see PIP on the HR2x family. PIP seems to be a dying feature.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I disagree, I think the HR24 would make the most sense. At the core, it'll undoubtedly be extremely similar to the HR23. But it'll have DECA built-in, which is something I assume Tivo would love.


With this you assume that the Tivo based unit will support DECA and DirecTV's future implementation of any features that DECA supports. That may not be the case. The Tivo could go an entirely different direction. I would certainly not expect it to be compatible with any CE implemented functions.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

carl6 said:


> With this you assume that the Tivo based unit will support DECA and DirecTV's future implementation of any features that DECA supports. That may not be the case. The Tivo could go an entirely different direction. I would certainly not expect it to be compatible with any CE implemented functions.


This is just a guess but I would think TiVo would support the DirecTV hardware now and in the future. Otherwise CSRs would have to not only support two different OS's but two different hardware configurations.

Base on this I believe any TiVo firmware would have to be compatible with what ever hardware configurations are used by the DirecTV.

Of course, I've been know to wrong before. :grin:

Mike


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2009)

What is DECA? Will the H24 have it also? Thanks for any info on this.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CraigerCSM said:


> What is DECA? Will the H24 have it also? Thanks for any info on this.


That information is listed in the Cutting Edge area of this site.

There is a First Look review on that technology there.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163641


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That information is listed in the Cutting Edge area of this site.
> 
> There is a First Look review on that technology there.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163641


No permission granted... - not all members has access to that forum.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

harsh said:


> If it is based on the HR2x platform, PIP is not possible.


Yes, but this is a Tivo thread. 


Tom Robertson said:


> Ignoring the fact that Dish uses the same chipset to do PIP...


But don't they also have 2 video cards inside that allow for PIP and the dual output feature, where the HRs don't?


Tom Robertson said:


> That said, I don't expect to see PIP on the HR2x family. PIP seems to be a dying feature.


Then why does E*, cable and some higher end TVs still have it?

I'm still looking for a "box" where I can feed 2 or more receivers that in turn feeds PIP on any TV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> No permission granted... - not all members has access to that forum.


That was my point - you have to join....and that's the only place the information exists.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> No permission granted... - not all members has access to that forum.


You know you have to join the CE to get to that information, silly!


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> TiVo has long been secretive about their development, there is no reason to think that this time around will be any different. The original Press Release said 2nd half of 2009 and at that point, I said it would be 1st quarter of 2010 simply because TiVo also has a history of being late (Yes, they have faults). To this point, I've heard very, very little myself. The best information we have is from the TiVo Conference calls as DIRECTV seems to be leaving the development effort entirely to TiVo.[/COLOR]


There always seem to be leaks even from secretive companies. The Apple tablet. iPhone fourth gen. Maybe it is that this thing is too niche to get the press.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> There always seem to be leaks even from secretive companies. The Apple tablet. iPhone fourth gen. Maybe it is that this thing is too niche to get the press.


Not this time. I know there are people here who've said they were selected and soon after saying so deleted their posts. I believe they've tightened up the loose lips. By March we'll all know, you know?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Smiddy, thanks for letting me know that TiVo beta testing is under weigh. [That's right: _weigh_, not _way_.] Now I can be pretty sure I won't be asked to join in.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168522
> 
> Pages: 19 & 20 of the keynote





harsh said:


> What is it that your references are supposed to support?


Just countering your claim here ..



harsh said:


> There's not much information out there to support that an HR24 will even exist


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Smiddy, thanks for letting me know that TiVo beta testing is under weigh. [That's right: _weigh_, not _way_.] Now I can be pretty sure I won't be asked to join in.


I'm guessing on a date and that it is even underway. I do know people have been selected though, I can't recall who it was now. I may have it confused with the PC20 thingy...anyhow, we'll all know when we know, you know?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Smiddy, thanks for letting me know that TiVo beta testing is under weigh. [That's right: _weigh_, not _way_.] Now I can be pretty sure I won't be asked to join in.


Ah, but this is a sticky one. Way too many people have weighed in, putting their weight behind various ways to correctly spell the phrase...
From: World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinio


> [A] According to the best current style manuals, definitely way. But your colleague has the ghostly support of generations of writers. In fact, at one time, under weigh could be regarded as the standard spelling.
> 
> What happened was that the Dutch, who were European masters of the sea in the seventeenth century, gave us - among many other nautical expressions - the term onderweg, meaning "on the way". This became naturalised as under way and is first recorded in English around 1740, specifically as a maritime term (its broader meanings didn't appear until the following century)


Cheers,
Tom


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Ah, but this is a sticky one. Way too many people have weighed in, putting their weight behind various ways to correctly spell the phrase...
> From: World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinio
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I used to have access to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) online, but not any longer. It has the etymology (not entomology) of most English words, even to include American influences. So, with that, I think the heft of the subject has been garbled enough to confuse most, as to make the best course of action to wait and see what will be, it will be...here _soon_!


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Just countering your claim here ..


There's nothing related on page 19 and page 20 shows a TV with HR24 labeled on it and a TV with H24 marked on them. They thoughtfully tossed in an H21 so we wouldn't think that the 24 models were TVs with satellite tuners built in. That's not much of a hint given the things that have been formally announced and never delivered.

I've actually seen an ad slick for the HDPC-20. They once showed a model of and offered a description of something they called the HMC. We haven't seen that yet. RCA took out ads touting the DIRECTV2Go features of its Lyra media player.

Many companies float weather balloons to gauge reactions and I suspect that this is an example of a DIRECTV weather balloon.

I don't buy page 20 meaning something more than broadband and program sharing. They aren't showing us anything regarding technology that we don't already know about.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> Ignoring the fact that Dish uses the same chipset to do PIP...


Only in the HR20. My understanding is that the later models use a chipset that isn't capable as it lacks a secondary rendering facility.


> PIP seems to be a dying feature.


As I've said, I despise the compulsion of the DIRECTV apologist to summarily write off features that DIRECTV hasn't (been able|seen fit) to implement.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

harsh said:


> As I've said, I despise the compulsion of the DIRECTV *apologist *to summarily write off features that DIRECTV hasn't (been able|seen fit) to implement.


Please try to make your point without name calling - it diminishes any point you attempt to make. Thank you.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> Only in the HR20. My understanding is that the later models use a chipset that isn't capable as it lacks a secondary rendering facility.As I've said, I despise the compulsion of the DIRECTV apologist to summarily write off features that DIRECTV hasn't (been able|seen fit) to implement.


Less and less TV's have this feature on a daily basis.. they are leaving it only to the higher end models.. why, because it usually does cost more to implement, and its not a feature that seems to sway people from any one brand to another, so there is no competitive advantage to a manufacture putting it into a lower level tv anymore.. That used to not be the case.. PIP used to be a feature that was actively marketed as being available in models as a way to make their brand more attractive over ones that didn't have it..

Based on all that, yeah, its not a directv peoples thing, its reality... Manufactures would have it in most models rather than only a few if it was an item that many people where clamoring for... Another reason not many people are asking for it, other than Dish, very few providers can supply PIP without making a customer lease multiple cable or sat boxes... not the case when PIP first hit the market... so they don't do that for that reason.. Also, DVR's have made the need for PIP diminish... These are all simply facts.... 

I had an ultimate tv, which had it.. but almost never used it.. I have multiple tvs in the main room these days, so I don't see me using it but very rarely anyway..

However, I would love to see POP.. That is something I would use, on rare occasion... However, most tvs don't do it for 2 hd sources, so if the box doesn't do it, then I'm pretty much not gonna be using it anyway... And I don;t believe DIsh does both feeds in hd either, do they?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

smiddy said:


> I used to have access to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) online, but not any longer. It has the etymology (not entomology) of most English words, even to include American influences. So, with that, I think the heft of the subject has been garbled enough to confuse most, as to make the best course of action to wait and see what will be, it will be...here _soon_!


Right, it'll be here soon enough, so it's really a mute point.
{ducks}


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Features are falling like flies in an attempt to get televisions that can be marketed at Walmart and Target. There's a whole new class of TVs that as specifically designed to compete only on price (see also the latest wave of Blu-ray players). PIP has always been a premium feature and it isn't suprising that it isn't common in these value oriented televisions.

This is one of the reasons that I don't expect that the new DIRECTiVo machine will be a major hardware departure from the existing HR2x line. DIRECTV has committed to pushing quite a few of these out the door and they can't place premium too high.

With the notable exception of the HR21 Pro, DIRECTV seems averse to offering much in the way of a differentiated product line. Going forward, TiVo software would appear to be the lone differentiating feature.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> And I don;t believe DIsh does both feeds in hd either, do they?


The capable DISH devices can PIP with any manner of digital feed. Obviously what you end up seeing in the window would not be considered HD because it is scaled down. In the case of the side-by-side feature, both images can be better than SD quality if you've chosen HD feeds.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

in re: PIP, all I can say is that I consider myself a pretty advanced user. My TV's have had PIP since 1999 and I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've used it. If my next TV or receiver didn't have it, I probably wouldn't care. 

Now, back to the subject of TiVo


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I was thinking out loud with Gulfwarvet today which solidified one thought that had been tumbling around in my brain.

I suspect the new DIRECTiVo's will have the TiVo logo, even tho they are built upon the HR2x platforms. I guess it will be only a different faceplate. Thus, making it less likely for any in-field upgrades. 

While we all know the technology "could" be developed for an in-field switch, I'm fairly certain such technology won't be created or at least presented to users (or even techs.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Ignoring the fact that Dish uses the same chipset to do PIP...
> 
> That said, I don't expect to see PIP on the HR2x family. PIP seems to be a dying feature.
> 
> ...


PIP was much more popular before DVRs were widespread. Being able to record the other program (or use something like DLB in any incarnation) largely negated the desire for PIP for users.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

gregjones said:


> PIP was much more popular before DVRs were widespread. Being able to record the other program (or use something like DLB in any incarnation) largely negated the desire for PIP for users.


...not to mention the release of DoublePlay.....

I've had one of those monster huge Mitz TV's with PIP in the past, and used PIP maybe 3 times during the entire 6 years I owned the set.

HD DVRs have changed the desire for this feature.

As for the new Tivobox...I doubt it will be a feature in it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> I suspect the new DIRECTiVo's will have the TiVo logo, even tho they are built upon the HR2x platforms.


It was once suggested that the TiVo subscriber could simply be mailed a TiVo logo sticker to place on the receiver. Is that unthinkable?

I'm thinking that TiVo might even want to include a version of the peanut remote as part of the deal.

Whether the user would apply the sticker or want a peanut remote is an entirely different issue.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> I was thinking out loud with Gulfwarvet today which solidified one thought that had been tumbling around in my brain.
> 
> I suspect the new DIRECTiVo's will have the TiVo logo, even tho they are built upon the HR2x platforms. I guess it will be only a different faceplate. Thus, making it less likely for any in-field upgrades.
> 
> ...


Maybe each TiVo-enabled DVR will come with a set of nifty stickers.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2009)

harsh said:


> It was once suggested that the TiVo subscriber could simply be mailed a TiVo logo sticker to place on the receiver. Is that unthinkable?
> 
> I'm thinking that TiVo might even want to include a version of the peanut remote as part of the deal.
> 
> Whether the user would apply the sticker or want a peanut remote is an entirely different issue.


I wish Microsoft would do that with people who uprgraded to Windows 7 and give them a Windows 7 sticker.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Seems likely: DirecTV firmware and TiVo firmware on identical hardware, TiVo shipped with TiVo "peanut" remote and TiVo specific documentation, upfront fee identical, TiVo additional monthly fee.

Just guessing.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> Seems likely: DirecTV firmware and TiVo firmware on identical hardware, TiVo shipped with TiVo "peanut" remote and TiVo specific documentation, upfront fee identical, TiVo additional monthly fee.
> 
> Just guessing.


Pretty great "guess".


----------



## Guest (Dec 7, 2009)

Sixto said:


> Seems likely: DirecTV firmware and TiVo firmware on identical hardware, TiVo shipped with TiVo "peanut" remote and TiVo specific documentation, upfront fee identical, TiVo additional monthly fee.
> 
> Just guessing.


I'm sticking with the DTV software if they do charge an extra fee.

Unless for $3 more a month you can record four shows at once like ATT? Would that be worth the extra money to be able to do that? Or Tivo added a web browser.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Anyone listen to what TIVO had to say at the UBS conference this morning? TIVO's stock was rising until the conference then has by falling.

What a waste of time and money it would be to send out silly stickers.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

fornold said:


> Anyone listen to what TIVO had to say at the UBS conference this morning? TIVO's stock was rising until the conference then has by falling.
> 
> What a waste of time and money it would be to send out silly stickers.


Am listening to the re-broadcast right now.

Building a brand is very carefully done and very important to do.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> It was once suggested that the TiVo subscriber could simply be mailed a TiVo logo sticker to place on the receiver. Is that unthinkable?
> 
> I'm thinking that TiVo might even want to include a version of the peanut remote as part of the deal.
> 
> Whether the user would apply the sticker or want a peanut remote is an entirely different issue.


Nothing is unthinkable but the technical obstacles to changing an on-site receiver from TiVo to HR2x are quite formidable.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

fornold said:


> Anyone listen to what TIVO had to say at the UBS conference this morning? TIVO's stock was rising until the conference then has by falling.
> 
> What a waste of time and money it would be to send out silly stickers.


"next year".

"much of the advanced features and services that we've been bringing to the marketplace"


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Whoa, what did I miss? They announced something? Where's the link?


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

smiddy said:


> Whoa, what did I miss? They announced something? Where's the link?


Nothing new. Just today's TiVo CEO presentation at the UBS Media & Communications Conference.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> There's nothing related on page 19 and page 20 shows a TV with HR24 labeled on it and a TV with H24 marked on them. They thoughtfully tossed in an H21 so we wouldn't think that the 24 models were TVs with satellite tuners built in. That's not much of a hint given the things that have been formally announced and never delivered.
> 
> I've actually seen an ad slick for the HDPC-20. They once showed a model of and offered a description of something they called the HMC. We haven't seen that yet. RCA took out ads touting the DIRECTV2Go features of its Lyra media player.
> 
> ...


Ah, then perhaps this is one time you should consider the message that I'm pushing here .. The HDPC-20 was a bit of a niche product and had some bad timing .. Not really expecting bad timing this time around .. promoting a negative view on this will likely conjure up a delectable Corvus brachyrhynchos.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

delectable Corvus brachyrhynchos == tasty crow


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

CraigerCSM said:


> I wish Microsoft would do that with people who uprgraded to Windows 7 and give them a Windows 7 sticker.


I upgraded mine to Ubuntu...and the stickers and the operating system were free.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

fornold said:


> Anyone listen to what TIVO had to say at the UBS conference this morning? TIVO's stock was rising until the conference then has by falling.
> 
> What a waste of time and money it would be to send out silly stickers.


For the record, the bit about the stickers was sarcasm. Anyone whose primary concern about a DVR is a picture on the outside of the box should not be allowed to spend money without their parents' permission.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Hmmm .. Me thinks it's time to move away from the ViP and back to the TiVo ..


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, with CES just a few weeks away, it should be very telling to see if TiVo can even show a prototype. Of course it took years between their Comcast prototype and an actual rollout. 

In my opinion Q1-2010 seems pretty far fetched for a full release.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

From reading Exhibit H, it seems like it will have prominent TiVo branding in hardware and software, and use the TiVo "peanut." Of course, that filing is from April and we don't know if it was amended in confidential communications between the two. 

Still, going to the question of whether in-home upgrades are possible, this seems to be another nail in the coffin, because it seems to say that in-home upgrades could violate their branding guidelines.

As far as HR24 or H24 series receivers, they were mentioned in DIRECTV literature, I believe, but I have no reason to believe that the terms HR24 or H24 refer to an upcoming TiVo product and... (heavy handed reminder) that's what this thread is about.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

From the referenced page, ...2009/06/09/section21.aspx:
_
...Commercial TE Launch timing
...the TE Solution Statement of Work (the "SOW")
...branding guidelines for the DIRECTV TE Receiver
*...All DIRECTV TE Receivers must include a TiVo logo on the front bezel of the hardware.*
...The remote control shall be based on the TiVo "peanut" design and have a TiVo branded key _

I'm very happy to see that a unique box is to be provided for the TiVo system. Looks like there won't be any way allowed for *anyone *to download TiVo software/firmware to a box that doesn't bear the TiVo brand on its front. Good.

So, what does *TE *stand for? TiVo Extraordinaire?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

One can only guess, but perhaps "TiVo Engineered?" That sounds like the way they'd refer to it internally, but it may or may not be the name it comes to market with.


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> So, what does *TE *stand for? TiVo Extraordinaire?


"TiVo Enhanced"?
"TiVo Enabled"?


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> .........................As far as HR24 or H24 series receivers, they were mentioned in DIRECTV literature, I believe, but I have no reason to believe that the terms HR24 or H24 refer to an upcoming TiVo product and... (heavy handed reminder) that's what this thread is avour.


There was speculation in this thread there may be a link with these units containing TiVo. I doubt like you there is.


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

I am still on the fence about either getting an HD Tivo or an HR-24. Would it be worth it to spend the money just to get rid of the BBC's? The one thing on my HR-22 is the channels changing is slow. If the new Tivo and HR-24 had fast channel changing then maybe I would consider one of those new boxes? Unless making the channel changing faster will be in a future update?


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

_Would it be worth it to spend the money just to get rid of _DirecTV's extremely user-grouchy search methods? You can anticipate what my answer would be.

BTW, I believe I coined the term _user-grouchy_, back in 1983 -- the opposite, of course, of user-friendly.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> _Would it be worth it to spend the money just to get rid of _DirecTV's extremely user-grouchy search methods? You can anticipate what my answer would be.


Unless it happens to get changed in the interim for all units....which then renders it no big deal.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

codespy said:


> There was speculation in this thread there may be a link with these units containing TiVo. I doubt like you there is.


There does not appear to be a link in your post.


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

Syzygy said:


> _Would it be worth it to spend the money just to get rid of _DirecTV's extremely user-grouchy search methods? You can anticipate what my answer would be.


DTV's search feature is fine for me. I have the new Star Trek movie on BluRay but I was curious to see when DTV has it on PPV. I did a search on it and it came up fine for me and told me when it was on.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Unless it happens to get changed in the interim for all units....which then renders it no big deal.


That would be really wonderful! A CIG list that one can edit? No more spontaneous refreshing of search results? All matches presented, and all the way out to 11 or 12 days? Person and Keyword searches producing lists that identify channels by name and not just by number?

Everyone, even (I'm certain) those who've been defending the way D* currently handles searching, would be very happy to see those changes.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> That would be really wonderful! A CIG list that one can edit? No more spontaneous refreshing of search results? All matches presented, and all the way out to 11 or 12 days? Person and Keyword searches producing lists that identify channels by name and not just by number?
> 
> Everyone, even (I'm certain) those who've been defending the way D* currently handles searching, would be very happy to see those changes.


Nobody said it would be like the Tivo way, which by the way...isn't necessarily *that* great.

But uniformity would make sense, and there are some opportunities for improvement that I wouldn't be all that surprised they address somehow in the future before the new Tivobox shows up in 2010 some time.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> That would be really wonderful! A CIG list that one can edit? No more spontaneous refreshing of search results? All matches presented, and all the way out to 11 or 12 days? Person and Keyword searches producing lists that identify channels by name and not just by number?
> 
> Everyone, even (I'm certain) those who've been defending the way D* currently handles searching, would be very happy to see those changes.


Are you saying you anticipate that in the upcoming TiVo device? Because (ahem, ahem is this thing on) this is the thread for that topic.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Are you saying you anticipate that in the upcoming TiVo device? Because (ahem, ahem is this thing on) this is the thread for that topic.


Well, I sure hope TiVonians are reading threads such as this, because it's the only way I know of (not being a beta tester) to point out certain pitfalls that they should IMO avoid.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> So, what does *TE *stand for? TiVo Extraordinaire?


TEST EXPERIMENT! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Well, I sure hope TiVonians are reading threads such as this, because it's the only way I know of (not being a beta tester) to point out certain pitfalls that they should IMO avoid.


Your anticipation (and others) is certainly welcome!


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Whoa, lots of excitement here, but really no new news eh? Oh wait, the Underwriters Laboratory Listing of the HR24:



codespy said:


> Well the HR24 (HR24-500) does exist as UL has just added it to their product approval. The H24 was approved a while ago. Both receivers are manufactured by Humax.


Manufactured by Humax, not TiVo.

Is TiVo supposed to go to CES? I can't get to their website for some reason.

I hope so, I'd love to get a peak at it if it is there, since I'm going and all.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

smiddy said:


> Whoa, lots of excitement here, but really no new news eh? Oh wait, the Underwriters Laboratory Listing of the HR24:
> 
> Manufactured by Humax, not TiVo.
> 
> ...


Tivo and Humax will both be at the CES exhibiting...


----------



## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

From the CES site:

TiVo Inc. 
Booth: NorthMtgRm N202,NorthMtgRm N203,NorthMtgRm N204 TiVo, the creator of and leader in digital video recorder features, is the ultimate HDTV companion, combining the clarity of High-Definition with the... 
Add To My Event Plan


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Beerstalker said:


> From the CES site:
> 
> TiVo Inc.
> Booth: NorthMtgRm N202,NorthMtgRm N203,NorthMtgRm N204 TiVo, the creator of and leader in digital video recorder features, is the ultimate HDTV companion, combining the clarity of High-Definition with the...
> Add To My Event Plan


Already on my list of places to stop at CES....


----------



## Razorback747 (Aug 24, 2008)

Does anyone here think the new DTivos will have the sps codes available? They sure come in handy on the HR10-250s. Do the sa series 3 units have them?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Looks like there won't be any way allowed for *anyone *to download TiVo software/firmware to a box that doesn't bear the TiVo brand on its front. Good.


Good? Why is it good? What does it matter?


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, with CES just a few weeks away





Beerstalker said:


> From the CES site:
> 
> TiVo Inc.
> Booth: NorthMtgRm N202,NorthMtgRm N203,NorthMtgRm N204 TiVo, the creator of and leader in digital video recorder features, is the ultimate HDTV companion, combining the clarity of High-Definition with the...
> Add To My Event Plan


D* won't be there.


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Already on my list of places to stop at CES....


Lucky guy. I would love to go to CES!


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

CraigerCSM said:


> Lucky guy. I would love to go to CES!


Ah man, I'm going! It won't be the same without you.  :lol:


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Razorback747 said:


> Does anyone here think the new DTivos will have the sps codes available? They sure come in handy on the HR10-250s. Do the sa series 3 units have them?


I would not expect them to, but until we actually see one, who knows. Don't know about the series 3 units.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Looks like there won't be any way allowed for *anyone *to download TiVo software/firmware to a box that doesn't bear the TiVo brand on its front. Good.





Jeremy W said:


> Good? Why is it good? What does it matter?


Because I was hoping for TiVo on a better box than the HR21 that DirecTV currently requires me to use. And now I'm likely to get it, at additional cost, of course.

And, more importantly, I'd hate to see TiVo engineers being required to provide a system that runs correctly on all the different DVRs that DirecTV's firmware has to run on (let alone receivers). DirecTV hasn't been able to meet that challenge (which they forced on themselves by letting each DVR model have a slightly different design) without severe problems.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Because I was hoping for TiVo on a better box than the HR21 that DirecTV currently requires me to use. And now I'm likely to get it, at additional cost, of course.


You are very wrong, for two reasons:

1: A bezel doesn't mean anything. The internal hardware will still be pretty much identical, if not 100% identical.
2: The current Tivo hardware is *the same* as the HR21 that you hate so much. BCM7401.

The hardware has nothing to do with your complaints.


----------



## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

As any one of the tens of people who assisted me when I was doing all the internal wiring for upgrading to HD can attest, I was as skeptical as anyone about the quality of the DirecTV hardware versus my experience with TiVo. I can say honestly that the quality of the hardware has impressed me over my limited time using my HR22s. I got the impression by reading the forum and my personal experience has backed up the assertion that a lot of "hardware problems" have been due to sub-spec installations. Obviously stuff like "slowness" or "remote nonsponsiveness" _could_ be out of date hardware, but I don't get the impression that it's anything more than just software not being written to make it less apparent. After all, as more than one poster has pointed out, the chipsets used in the HR2x aren't any different than those used in the TiVo s3.

At this point I'm a lot more interested in having the TiVo UI than I am in "getting rid of this DirecTV POS". I expect both to work as expected just fine, it's just I prefer the way TiVo does things.

I have much fewer complaints about the HR2x than I expected and I'm happy enough with it that if the TiVo is delayed I'm not going to die, but I am very much still a TiVotee and am eagerly looking forward to switching back.

I will add that I don't think there are many in my boat and that those who expect the TiVo to alleviate their hardware issues, hardware shortcomings, or even expect a vastly different featureset will be disappointed in the TiVo offering. I think we're looking at mainly the same features and hardware with a TiVo user experience and to tell the truth, that's worth the money to me.

Tony


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

smiddy said:


> Ah man, I'm going! It won't be the same without you.  :lol:


Man, all the members going to CES. I envious... 

Just remember to have a camera handy when you get to that TiVo exhibit. Just in case. 

Mike

just how slick is it anyway. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> Man, all the members going to CES. I envious...
> 
> Just remember to have a camera handy when you get to that TiVo exhibit. Just in case.
> 
> ...


Yeah....not to worry....my camera never leaves my side there.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah....not to worry....my camera never leaves my side there.


That's what I'm talkin' about. Maybe we'll get a glimpse of the future. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> That's what I'm talkin' about. Maybe we'll get a glimpse of the future.
> 
> Mike


Maybe....got a glimpse of the future on the Dish side of the house last year...and its still apparently the future...:lol:


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe....got a glimpse of the future on the Dish side of the house last year...and its still apparently the future...:lol:


The "future" is a very, very, long time...infinite even. 

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> The "future" is a very, very, long time...infinite even.
> 
> Mike


Or so it seems with some other provider...:lol:

Unlike the other device in the photo, I suspect the new Tivobox will actually happen, and is indeed going to be a first-half 2010 delivery as announced.


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

MicroBeta said:


> The "future" is a very, very, long time...infinite even.
> 
> Mike


Optomist :lol:


----------



## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Or so it seems with some other provider...:lol:
> 
> Unlike the other device in the photo, I suspect the new Tivobox will actually happen, and is indeed going to be a first-half 2010 delivery as announced.


I like your optimism, but this is contrary to TiVo's past history, their devices unfortunately are chronically delayed. I'd say 3rd quarter if we're lucky.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Already on my list of places to stop at CES....


Yes, we will definitely be going to The TiVo Exhibit as one of the First Places we visit.

I wonder if Slingbox will be exhibiting this year???

I'm betting Third Quarter 2010 for the New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO!!!


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

At this point, all kidding aside, I'm forecasting a "hands off" demo unit at CES, tucked into a corner of the TiVo booth, and a real live device in your hands in late 1Q11.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point, all kidding aside, I'm forecasting a "hands off" demo unit at CES, tucked into a corner of the TiVo booth, and a real live device in your hands in late 1Q11.


Could be right...and we'll keep you posted from the CES as to what we see there...


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point, all kidding aside, I'm forecasting a "hands off" demo unit at CES, tucked into a corner of the TiVo booth, and a real live device in your hands in late 1Q11.


I'll let you know, I'm going to ask them all kinds of questions.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

New TiVo 10Q (12/10/2009):"During the nine months ended October 31, 2009, the Company recognized $6.2 million in technology revenues and $6.2 million in cost of technology revenues related to the development of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR."​Was $3.2M thru last quarter in last filing.

Similar to wording from last time:"However, we expect continued losses in our installed base of MSOs/Broadcasters subscriptions as DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR in 2010 ..."​
Looking for other changes in the filing.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> New TiVo 10Q (12/10/2009):"During the nine months ended October 31, 2009, the Company recognized $6.2 million in technology revenues and $6.2 million in cost of technology revenues related to the development of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR."​Was $3.2M thru last quarter in last filing.
> 
> Similar to wording from last time:"However, we expect continued losses in our installed base of MSOs/Broadcasters subscriptions as DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR in 2010 ..."​
> Looking for other changes in the filing.


All interesting information....some of it could be interpreted a number of ways...

The first part seems to translate into DirecTV paying $6.2 to Tivo for the develpment work to date, and that recognized as revenue to offset the same amount of costs to date.

It also means alot of work has been done in 2009 already.

The last part seems to indicate that the new DirecTV Tivobox will be released prior to any new other Tivo unit in 2010. That would seem to provide motivation for them to release it sooner than later.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All interesting information....some of it could be interpreted a number of ways...
> 
> The first part seems to translate into DirecTV paying $6.2 to Tivo for the develpment work to date, and that recognized as revenue to offset the same amount of costs to date.
> 
> ...


Yes, interesting that DirecTV development for the prior 6 months was $3.2M, and last 3 months is another $3.0M. Much activity in the last 3 months.

Also, there was a 2nd part to the decreasing subscription line just to properly show context: "and our mass distribution deals with Comcast and Cox are still in the early phases of development and/or deployment."


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm still not ready to back off of Q1/2010 yet, but I can say that I may start hedging a bit very shortly .. and not for the better.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm still not ready to back off of Q1/2010 yet, but I can say that I may start hedging a bit very shortly .. and not for the better.


I agree.

Been following these filings, analyst calls, and industry presentations ... and the exact words used the past few months are slightly more vague, just slightly.

We'll see ... but slippage into Q2 wouldn't be much of a surprise.

It is interesting that they're spending about a $1M a month on development. Would seem that this is a significant investment and ramp-up.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sixto said:


> It is interesting that they're spending about a $1M a month on development. Would seem that this is a significant investment and ramp-up.


Assuming TiVo is going to use and existing STB (with branded bevel), perhaps they are assuming the production liability. This would account for increase in cost. One thing TiVo will need is some number of receivers ready to roll once they start selling them.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Assuming TiVo is going to use and existing STB (with branded bevel), perhaps they are assuming the production liability. This would account for increase in cost. One thing TiVo will need is some number of receivers ready to roll once they start selling them.


It's been an interesting arrangement.

TiVo has cost ($6.2M over the past 9 months), they then also get DirecTV to pay for the development cost ($6.2M TiVo revenue over the past 9 months), and then DirecTV "is entitled to recoup, over time, a portion of certain development fees through a reduction in certain subscription fees".


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Sixto said:


> It is interesting that they're spending about a $1M a month on development. Would seem that this is a significant investment and ramp-up.


They're spending an average of $689,000/month so far. Assuming a salary of $75,000, that means they've got 9 people working on it. Not really *that* significant of an investment, considering they have 463 employees as of the most recent numbers I can find, and those costs are probably not all salary-related.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> They're spending an average of $689,000/month so far. Assuming a salary of $75,000, that means they've got 9 people working on it [...]


At $75k each, I think you mean 110 people working on it. 

Figuring a typical 40% for benefits, probably closer to 80 folks working on it if the D* payments are all salary-related. Probably not, tho.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> At $75k each, I think you mean 110 people working on it.


Wow, I am and idiot. :lol:

I've never been good with the maths.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

So we noticed.


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Wow, I am and idiot. :lol:


You said that out loud, shhhhh! You don't want anyone to know do you?


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

smiddy said:


> You said that out loud, shhhhh! You don't want anyone to know do you?


It's too late to hide it at this point.


----------



## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

If I see a working tivo for sale before the end of March, you can pick my jaw up off the floor, but I'll still take 2!


----------



## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Is anyone speculating as to the new tivo being compatible with directv2pc? it seems like a completely new gui would need to be created.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ejjames said:


> Is anyone speculating as to the new tivo being compatible with directv2pc? it seems like a completely new gui would need to be created.


My speculation is that one of the requirements the new TiVo will have (perhaps not on day one) is full compliance with the networking features of the HR2x family. That is purely a guess.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## VandyCWG (Dec 19, 2006)

Agree with Tom on that...
DirecTV is spending a lot of time making this stuff work....So I am sure the HDTivo will talk back and fourth.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> My speculation is that one of the requirements the new TiVo will have (perhaps not on day one) is full compliance with the networking features of the HR2x family. That is purely a guess.


I'd say that Tivo would be foolish to come out with their new DVR if it doesn't have every meaningful feature that DirecTV's DVR has, but we all know that the zealots will buy it anyway.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Zealotry is not practiced anymore. Some might find that term offensive. But those who like and admire TiVo will certainly buy them and use them no matter how others may judge them.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

smiddy said:


> Zealotry is not practiced anymore.


What forums are you reading????


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> What forums are you reading????


These very forums and I can tell you that those same people would not like being called zealots, it is offensive. Please try to find a more neutral adjective to describe people. You can say the very same thing without being offensive. Please be more tolerant of people, especially during this time of year. It will go further in communication without setting up barriers and we can all have fun together. That is what these forums are for and this thread is simply about the anticipation of a new product. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, it is fun to speculate.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Sixto said:


> It is interesting that they're spending about a $1M a month on development. Would seem that this is a significant investment and ramp-up.


More interesting is the matter of scale on that 1 million. To Tivo that is a LOT of money. To DirecTV they would barely notice it.

This is why I've always said there is no downside to DirecTV in this even if it fails completely. All they are out is a few million that they will write off as a loss. No biggy as it won't really hurt the stock or the bottom line (especially since investors aren't considering this new DirecTivo in the current stock price since DirecTV never talks about it).

Until DirecTV finally talks about this it's still vaporware and far off as far as I'm concerned. I see Q2 2010 as the earliest release, more likely 2nd half.


----------



## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

How's this for anticipation? With standard HR2x DVRs running at a lease fee of $199, I expect the new Directv HD TiVo will be EXPEN$$$IVE.  I further predict people will either love the GUI (When I used mine for years, I used to think it was fantastic, personally), others will hate it. I predict, additionally, that those who love it will be exceedingly forgiving of hardware and operational quirks, while those who hate it will excoriate the device for similar quirks and shortcomings (real or imagined).

Anyone care to poke holes in my predictions? :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

LameLefty said:


> How's this for anticipation? With standard HR2x DVRs running at a lease fee of $199, I expect the new Directv HD TiVo will be EXPEN$$$IVE.  I further predict people will either love the GUI (When I used mine for years, I used to think it was fantastic, personally), others will hate it. I predict, additionally, that those who love it will be exceedingly forgiving of hardware and operational quirks, while those who hate it will excoriate the device for similar quirks and shortcomings (real or imagined).
> 
> Anyone care to poke holes in my predictions? :lol:


Nope....looks like American Cheese and not Swiss Cheese to me.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

smiddy said:


> These very forums and I can tell you that those same people would not like being called zealots, it is offensive. Please try to find a more neutral adjective to describe people. You can say the very same thing without being offensive. Please be more tolerant of people, especially during this time of year. It will go further in communication without setting up barriers and we can all have fun together. That is what these forums are for and this thread is simply about the anticipation of a new product. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, it is fun to speculate.


I used to be a fairly active participant at TiVo Community Forums, registered there the same month I got my first D-TiVo and about six months after picking up my first standalone TiVo with Lifetime Service. Learned a lot there, like how to upgrade capacity. Things started to go South there when the DIRECTV/TiVo partnership dissolved. I had every intention of staying with DIRECTV, so I registered here and followed the development of the R-15, didn't buy one, but I just wanted to see what was going on. In Oct. 2006, when I was offered a free HD DVR for being a NFL-ST sub, I asked for the HR20 and definitely experienced the growing pains, but it got to a point where I personally preferred it to the HR10, and it went beyond being able to view new HD channels. When prompted about it at TCF about my experiences, I'd reply, but I'd disclose that things like TiVo Suggestions were useless to me and that if features like that were a "must have" or you knew TiVo was the platform for you, it was probably best to stand pat. Despite that, I got accused of being a "shill", since there was a huge backlash to Earl B there at that time, I finally said enough's enough and stopped posting. Seems like there was an influx in 2004 of users who didn't think the long timers were "TiVo enough" and let them know it loud and proud.  Whatever.

Anyway, I've seen it on both sides. I would say if you're happy with your platform, there's no reason to deride others choice(s). I consider myself more of DVR enthusiast and can see benefits/disadvantages to all that I've used to this point. I do recall a lot of smak talk at TCF after Comcast and Cox signed on with TiVo in 2005 as far as how they would crush DIRECTV. Four years on, that hasn't been the case. Comcast-TiVos have been bug-ridden through their deployment, stable now AFAIK, scarce as hen's teeth, but not quite as scarce as the Cox units.

But, as has been stated, there are those for whom nothing other than TiVo will do. Fine and dandy and I agree that there is no downside to DIRECTV offering them. And when they are available, I think they'll show the cable cos how a roll-out is done. I wouldn't rule out all possibilities of owning one, I just need to know the particulars to make the decision. I will say I need compelling reasons to do so.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

bidger said:


> I used to be a fairly active participant at TiVo Community Forums, registered there the same month I got my first D-TiVo and about six months after picking up my first standalone TiVo with Lifetime Service. Learned a lot there, like how to upgrade capacity. Things started to go South there when the DIRECTV/TiVo partnership dissolved. I had every intention of staying with DIRECTV, so I registered here and followed the development of the R-15, didn't buy one, but I just wanted to see what was going on. In Oct. 2006, when I was offered a free HD DVR for being a NFL-ST sub, I asked for the HR20 and definitely experienced the growing pains, but it got to a point where I personally preferred it to the HR10, and it went beyond being able to view new HD channels. When prompted about it at TCF about my experiences, I'd reply, but I'd disclose that things like TiVo Suggestions were useless to me and that if features like that were a "must have" or you knew TiVo was the platform for you, it was probably best to stand pat. Despite that, I got accused of being a "shill", since there was a huge backlash to Earl B there at that time, I finally said enough's enough and stopped posting. Seems like there was an influx in 2004 of users who didn't think the long timers were "TiVo enough" and let them know it loud and proud.  Whatever.
> 
> Anyway, I've seen it on both sides. I would say if you're happy with your platform, there's no reason to deride others choice(s). I consider myself more of DVR enthusiast and can see benefits/disadvantages to all that I've used to this point. I do recall a lot of smak talk at TCF after Comcast and Cox signed on with TiVo in 2005 as far as how they would crush DIRECTV. Four years on, that hasn't been the case. Comcast-TiVos have been bug-ridden through their deployment, stable now AFAIK, scarce as hen's teeth, but not quite as scarce as the Cox units.
> 
> But, as has been stated, there are those for whom nothing other than TiVo will do. Fine and dandy and I agree that there is no downside to DIRECTV offering them. And when they are available, I think they'll show the cable cos how a roll-out is done. I wouldn't rule out all possibilities of owning one, I just need to know the particulars to make the decision. I will say I need compelling reasons to do so.


 Very well said. I too experienced the trashtalk at TCF a few years ago and haven't gone back since. Hopefully the TIVO enthusiasts get treated better here then the people who changed over to the HR20 got treated there.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

dhhaines said:


> Very well said. I too experienced the trashtalk at TCF a few years ago and haven't gone back since. Hopefully the TIVO enthusiasts get treated better here then the people who changed over to the HR20 got treated there.


Agreed, because early adopters, and you know that die-hard TiVotees that are still with DIRECTV will fit that bill, are a valuable resource for those considering migrating.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> How's this for anticipation? With standard HR2x DVRs running at a lease fee of $199, I expect the new Directv HD TiVo will be EXPEN$$$IVE.  I further predict people will either love the GUI (When I used mine for years, I used to think it was fantastic, personally), others will hate it. I predict, additionally, that those who love it will be exceedingly forgiving of hardware and operational quirks, while those who hate it will excoriate the device for similar quirks and shortcomings (real or imagined).
> 
> Anyone care to poke holes in my predictions? :lol:


I disagree with one thing.. I have a feeling that the up front price will be about 199.99 for the tivo, with no discounts available... Making it the same price as a regular hr...

I also predict that the monthly fee for a tivo, per box will be 12.95 a month, with no lifetime or annual offerings... I think you might also still need the 5 a month on your account for dvr's on your system....

Because of how loyal tivo people are, thats what I'd charge them.. They'll pay it.... And there is no reason to give them a discount over the stand alone...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I have no basis for this, but I predict the monthly household DVR fee will be $6 without TiVo and $10 with TiVo.

I also think the TiVo boxes will cost the same $199 as the HD DVR's, but perhaps not be discounted as often (or ever).


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point, all kidding aside, I'm forecasting a "hands off" demo unit at CES, tucked into a corner of the TiVo booth, and a real live device in your hands in late 1Q11.


basicly a HR2X box with a tivo sticker on the faceplate with nothing attached


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point, all kidding aside, I'm forecasting a "hands off" demo unit at CES, tucked into a corner of the TiVo booth, and a real live device in your hands in late 1Q11.


Wow! Late 1Q 20*11*? I just noticed that. Not some time in 2010, like most other predictions?

Heck, maybe by March 2011 DirecTV will have ironed out all of the huge and varied problems in their own units, and there'll be no need to pay extra for a box that actually works. Come to think of it, maybe that's exactly what you're hoping for too, and your 2011 prediction simply reflects your expectation of how much time DirecTV needs to fix everything.

I'm not an "interface bigot" -- I like both interfaces, and I won't switch to TiVo if DirecTV stops dicking us around with their bugs and intentional crippling.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Of course I have no insider information about TiVo; I'm just looking at their past performance.


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## ColdShot (Nov 30, 2007)

Found this morning. TiVo \ DTV device expected inb Spring.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/439948-Can_TiVo_Reinvent_Itself_.php


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

inkahauts said:


> I disagree with one thing.. I have a feeling that the up front price will be about 199.99 for the tivo, with no discounts available... Making it the same price as a regular hr...
> 
> I also predict that the monthly fee for a tivo, per box will be 12.95 a month, with no lifetime or annual offerings... I think you might also still need the 5 a month on your account for dvr's on your system....
> 
> Because of how loyal tivo people are, thats what I'd charge them.. They'll pay it.... And there is no reason to give them a discount over the stand alone...


$13/mo PER BOX - NO way. At there prices one might as well go back to cable.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

pfp said:


> $13/mo PER BOX - NO way. At there prices one might as well go back to cable.


Ya. That article link posted above says Comcast upcharges $2.95/month for TiVo service, on top of the DVR fee.

The new deal with DirecTV promises TiVo "significantly higher" monthly subscriber fees than previous deals. The last contract fees were reportedly $1/month/subscriber, so a Comcast-like $3/month/subscriber fee would be triple. That sounds significantly higher to me.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

According to Todd Spangler's article *TiVo to Cable: Let Us Guide You*:

_"As a result of the development with Comcast, TiVo now has "essentially a *Java *implementation" of its application, according to ... TiVo's VP of marketing and product development."_ -- March 22, 2009

Java slows my Sony Blu-ray player to a crawl; it takes minutes to accomplish some tasks. I shudder to think just how slow a Java-based TiVo might be. (I'm hoping neither DirecTV nor TiVo is using Java for satellite DVRs.)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Frank, that is one thing on which we are in total agreement. Using Java makes things easier for programmers but ultimately slower for everyone else. I have been working with a Java-based vertical market suite for about 10 years and I'd have to guess I've lost several months of my life to waiting for it.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> According to Todd Spangler's article *TiVo to Cable: Let Us Guide You*:
> 
> _"As a result of the development with Comcast, TiVo now has "essentially a *Java *implementation" of its application, according to ... TiVo's VP of marketing and product development."_ -- March 22, 2009
> 
> *Java slows my Sony Blu-ray player to a crawl; it takes minutes to accomplish some tasks. I shudder to think just how slow a Java-based TiVo might be. (I'm hoping neither DirecTV nor TiVo is using Java for satellite DVRs.)*


What BD player model do you use? My PS3 handles Java very well... at least as fast as my HR20/HR23 does, and probably my TiVo Series 3 as well.

~Alan


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> Ya. That article link posted above says Comcast upcharges $2.95/month for TiVo service, on top of the DVR fee.
> 
> The new deal with DirecTV promises TiVo "significantly higher" monthly subscriber fees than previous deals. The last contract fees were reportedly $1/month/subscriber, so a Comcast-like $3/month/subscriber fee would be triple. That sounds significantly higher to me.


That extra fee will likely keep me from going back to TiVo. My bill is big enough and I can't think a single reason why I would want to pay even more...but that's just me. :grin:

Mike


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> That extra fee will likely keep me from going back to TiVo. My bill is big enough and I can't think a single reason why I would want to pay even more...but that's just me. :grin:


Actually, if you paid for TiVo "lifetime" service in the past, my guess is you'll be grandfathered, so no monthly upcharge. That said, if DirecTV doesn't offer receiver swaps, will you be willing to fork over $$$ for a new DirecTiVo box?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Wellll...... let's hope so. They have been doing some pretty aggressive marketing over the last couple of years to limit the number of TiVo subscribers, so hopefully there are very few with Lifetime DVR and there won't be any reason not to carry that over.

To answer your other question, I see no reason to spend additional dollars for a TiVo device. If I am offered an evaluation unit for the purpose of review I will likely accept it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> Actually, if you paid for TiVo "lifetime" service in the past, my guess is you'll be grandfathered, so no monthly upcharge. That said, if DirecTV doesn't offer receiver swaps, will you be willing to fork over $$$ for a new DirecTiVo box?


Didn"t have "lifetime" so no, I wouldn't fork over big bucks for a TiVo branded box.

Mike


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> Actually, if you paid for TiVo "lifetime" service in the past, my guess is you'll be grandfathered, so no monthly upcharge...


I paid for a TiVo lifetime subscription for my SA TiVo in 1999 -- and it has not yet ever been reassigned to another box. I realize a different kind of lifetime TiVo subscription was offered once upon a time by DirecTV.

Question: D'ya think there's any chance an original SA TiVo lifetime subscription would be transferable to the MPEG4 TiVo?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> What BD player model do you use? My PS3 handles Java very well...


Sony BDP-S350.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Frank, I have the same player and I agree that discs with BD-Java are much slower to load than non-Java discs. But that's off topic


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Question: D'ya think there's any chance an original SA TiVo lifetime subscription would be transferable to the MPEG4 TiVo?


No chance.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To answer your other question, I see no reason to spend additional dollars for a TiVo device. If I am offered an evaluation unit for the purpose of review I will likely accept it.


I think that is the feeling of many of us. Many are paying upward to $200 a month and any additional charges would require us to drop programing. I don't mind paying for programing (within reason) but not for the additional bells and whistles charges that do not give me any additional programing.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Steve said:


> Actually, if you paid for TiVo "lifetime" service in the past, my guess is you'll be grandfathered, so no monthly upcharge. That said, if DirecTV doesn't offer receiver swaps, will you be willing to fork over $$$ for a new DirecTiVo box?


Having forked over the $$ for Tivo Lifetime already this would be nice but is not expected. It would be sort of odd that the original Tivo lifetime service was not valid on the new Tivo product though. Here's to wishfull thinking.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> [...] If I am offered an evaluation unit for the purpose of review I will likely accept it.


Same here!


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

If you paid for "TiVo lifetime" that got converted to "DVR lifetime" in 2004. I cannot imagine that DirecTV would then say that allows you to upgrade to the new TiVo service.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

sbl said:


> If you paid for "TiVo lifetime" that got converted to "DVR lifetime" in 2004. I cannot imagine that DirecTV would then say that allows you to upgrade to the new TiVo service.


I would tend to agree with that .. Any new charges would be an entirely new generation of TiVo charges at this point and would be unrelated to the standard 'DVR fee' that everyone pays now.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I would tend to agree with that .. Any new charges would be an entirely new generation of TiVo charges at this point and would be unrelated to the standard 'DVR fee' that everyone pays now.


It will likely be named something entirely different too.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

pfp said:


> $13/mo PER BOX - NO way. At there prices one might as well go back to cable.





Steve said:


> Ya. That article link posted above says Comcast upcharges $2.95/month for TiVo service, on top of the DVR fee.
> 
> The new deal with DirecTV promises TiVo "significantly higher" monthly subscriber fees than previous deals. The last contract fees were reportedly $1/month/subscriber, so a Comcast-like $3/month/subscriber fee would be triple. That sounds significantly higher to me.


13 a month is their current stand alone rate now, so its not out of line..

And it wouldn't send people to cable around here.. Its 18 a month or more for an hd dvr from the cable company and we all know those suck....


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To answer your other question, I see no reason to spend additional dollars for a TiVo device. If I am offered an evaluation unit for the purpose of review I will likely accept it.


If I am offered an evaluation unit for the purpose of review, I'll jump for joy!

That being said, I'll most likely end up with at least one DirecTiVo... I'm just not sure how many beyond that point. It will most likely depend on pricing, feature set, and of course, the status of DirecTV's HRxx series DVRs after release.



Syzygy said:


> Sony BDP-S350.





Stuart Sweet said:


> Frank, I have the same player and I agree that discs with BD-Java are much slower to load than non-Java discs. But that's off topic


I purchased one of those as a Christmas gift last year. I haven't really seen it in action though, so I can't comment on that, but my PS3 works well with Java discs, so I guess it would all depend on the hardware.



Doug Brott said:


> I would tend to agree with that .. Any new charges would be an entirely new generation of TiVo charges at this point and would be unrelated to the standard 'DVR fee' that everyone pays now.





smiddy said:


> It will likely be named something entirely different too.


There will probably be a TiVo fee in addition to a DVR fee...



inkahauts said:


> 13 a month is their current stand alone rate now, so its not out of line..


You can get it cheaper if you pay in advance. $299 for 3 years makes it just over $8 a month. Unfortunately, they have in the last couple of years gone up on their multi-service discount which is now way too high in my opinion.

~Alan


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

Me I am hoping for a great new one this spring...
I have been waiting for this unit, getting tired of waiting for it.
Really want the following options for unit on the new model:

1- Multi-room viewing, within house ethernet network
2- VOD add on's from Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster on Demand. in HD also.
3- full program via web and mobile devices like iphone, blackberry
4- full Tivo to Go ability,
5- ability to backup titles off the DVR to hard drive, or burn to Blu-Ray or DVD in HD. ie via Toast on my mac.
6- Full Directv VOD integration, to be able to get Directv PPV VOD, Sports channels special mix and much more. also network VOD que's

it is time that people get full functionality back, instead of being prevented from recording for home use, people should be able to keep virtually all programs for future watching. ie programs we pay for on HBO, Showtime, broadcast and cable networks.

only programming i would accept not being able to backup for my in home use, No not filesharing, would be PPV new releases.

I really hope Tivo brings it and brings it soon, with NO Directv handicapping of the devices. Time for full capabilities and letting the customer get what they pay for.

What does everyone else think or want??


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> I really hope Tivo brings it and brings it soon, with NO Directv handicapping of the devices.


Unfortunately for you, Tivo doesn't get to dictate the rules of what you can do with DirecTV's signal. So items 4 and 5 are a pipe dream. Item 2 is a pipe dream too, but that's only because DirecTV won't allow those competing services on a sanctioned DVR. 1 and 3 are pretty likely, and 6 has already been confirmed so it'll be there.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

mitchelljd said:


> Me I am hoping for a great new one this spring...
> I have been waiting for this unit, getting tired of waiting for it.
> Really want the following options for unit on the new model:
> 
> ...


That you need a reality check.
All your talk about full functionality back, as if it was ever really had in the first place. Do a google search on Macrovision...


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

mitchelljd said:


> Me I am hoping for a great new one this spring...
> I have been waiting for this unit, getting tired of waiting for it.
> Really want the following options for unit on the new model:
> 
> ...


What I want is NetFlix streaming. So what I got three weeks ago (on black Friday) was a Samsung BD-P1600 BluRay player for $139. It does NetFlix, YouTube, Blockbuster and Pandora. Plus it has played every CD+/-R, DVD+/-R, and BR that I could through at it.
And now that I have doubleplay on my HR for Sunday NFL, I no longer have a need or want for TiVo.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

You bring up some excellent talking points. Here are my expectations on them:


mitchelljd said:


> 1- Multi-room viewing, within house ethernet network


I can see this using the DIRECTV MRV methodology (no inter-box copying but adding support for playback on non-DVRs).


> 2- VOD add on's from Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster on Demand. in HD also.


Very, very unlikely


> 3- full program via web and mobile devices like iphone, blackberry


Likely, if you meant to use the word "programmability" and _maybe_ remote control. Unlikely if you meant remote viewing (DIRECTV2Go). I wouldn't hold my breath on Blackberry support other than through Opera.


> 4- full Tivo to Go ability,


Very unlikely. To really discuss this requires a complete definition of what TiVo2Go represents.


> 5- ability to backup titles off the DVR to hard drive, or burn to Blu-Ray or DVD in HD. ie via Toast on my mac.


Absolutely no on "backing up" to optical media and unlikely any support of the Macintosh platform other than web based programming.


> 6- Full Directv VOD integration, to be able to get Directv PPV VOD, Sports channels special mix and much more. also network VOD que's


Likely to the same extent that the DIRECTV software platform does.



> it is time that people get full functionality back, instead of being prevented from recording for home use, people should be able to keep virtually all programs for future watching. ie programs we pay for on HBO, Showtime, broadcast and cable networks.
> 
> only programming i would accept not being able to backup for my in home use, No not filesharing, would be PPV new releases.


This ship has long ago sailed. The property owners are being given more and more control over their content and DIRECTV will have to support them. What TiVo2Go represents has changed and may become even more restricted in the future.


> I really hope Tivo brings it and brings it soon, with NO Directv handicapping of the devices. Time for full capabilities and letting the customer get what they pay for.


Going forward, the content providers are going to be calling the shots. The definition of "what you pay for" will come more in line with what they want as opposed to what you may have been thinking.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Some points from an earlier post..

1- Multi-room viewing, within house ethernet network
2- VOD add on's from Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster on Demand. in HD also.

_This one will never happen.. it interferes with DirecTV's business model of selling PPV and movie channels._

3- full program via web and mobile devices like iphone, blackberry

_No doubt that the TIVO unit will be capable of the same remote programming functions as a DirecTV DVR_

4- full Tivo to Go ability,

_I definitely wouldn't count on this one_

5- ability to backup titles off the DVR to hard drive, or burn to Blu-Ray or DVD in HD. ie via Toast on my mac.

_Under current DRM conditions, this is not going to happen in HD.. you can have SD all day._

6- Full Directv VOD integration, to be able to get Directv PPV VOD, Sports channels special mix and much more. also network VOD que's

_DirecTCV isn't going to ship a TIVO DVR without this capability._


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Unfortunately for you, Tivo doesn't get to dictate the rules of what you can do with DirecTV's signal. So items 4 and 5 are a pipe dream. Item 2 is a pipe dream too, but that's only because DirecTV won't allow those competing services on a sanctioned DVR. 1 and 3 are pretty likely, and 6 has already been confirmed so it'll be there.


I'd agree that #4 and #5 are a pipe dream .. DIRECTV has always (sometimes unsuccessfully) been protective of its content. Don't see any means of archiving becoming available.

#2 .. eh, you never know.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> it is time that people get full functionality back, instead of being prevented from recording for home use, people should be able to keep virtually all programs for future watching. ie programs we pay for on HBO, Showtime, broadcast and cable networks.


Guess it depends on what you mean by full functionality .. I see a more likely scenario of DIRECTV archiving tons and tons of movies (ones that you may wish to have archived) and somehow making them available to you.

Don't expect folks to let you copy things as much as you may have in the past. This is all part of US Copyright Laws and essentially means the guys that own the material get to decide how and to whom it is distributed.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

mitchelljd said:


> ...
> 4- full Tivo to Go ability,
> ...


If you really want that capability, you could get a HTPC and one of these:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

Integration with BeyondTV, SageTV, MythTV, and Windows Media Center is available. The cost is a HTPC (~300 for an effective HTPC, or less if you already have a PC that will work) the Hauppauge HD PVR (~200) and a DirectTV HD receiver. I've personally used BeyondTVs utility for automatically making mobile video and it works like a champ.

If you're adverse to going that route, a Slingbox is probably simpler. I can't speak to how well it works since I've never used one, and you will need wireless internet access for your mobile device. I'm sure someone here could give you the lowdown.

Ironically, TivoToGo would be the one capability that I would find tempting enough to pay extra for a HD DTivo. The TIVO interface itself, meh.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Guess it depends on what you mean by full functionality .. I see a more likely scenario of DIRECTV archiving tons and tons of movies (ones that you may wish to have archived) and somehow making them available to you.
> 
> Don't expect folks to let you copy things as much as you may have in the past. This is all part of US Copyright Laws and essentially means the guys that own the material get to decide how and to whom it is distributed.


Yes, but if I can record off of cable and back up on my PC via software that ships with Windows, and this is pretty much mandated by the FCC in the cable and OTA markets, it clearly does not run afoul of copyright law. Which leaves DirecTV at a competitive disadvantage if there is no archival option. Folks are not asking DirecTV to blaze trails here.

The current DVRs are the way they are at least in part because Murdoch was a Copyright Nazi. Yes, content providers (especially the networks) would block DVRs if they could, and may well try to block archival storage on DirecTV. But competition may prevent that.

In short, don't be so sure. Even if they don't enable it right off, that does not mean the capability isn't there if needed. See DLB/DoublePlay.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Still, don't expect DIRECTV to allow any kind of "copy" features .. As I said, they are very protective of their content. The best you are going to get is to record it using an external device (HDMI, Composite or Component) onto your 3rd-party device. "Copy from" is a convenience factor that I don't see happening.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

I should also point out that Netflix and fellows, both disc and network, are destroying the movie-channel market. They've caused me to unsub already. Only movie channel I have left is HDNet Movies, and only because it costs half as much and is twice as good. The series or two I'm missing will be on Netflix by and by.

Let me archive movies to ensure that I'm not hostage to a DVR drive's inevitable failure (24/7 churning takes a toll), and maybe I'll reconsider.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

mitchelljd said:


> 1- Multi-room viewing, within house ethernet network


Will only happen if it can communicate with the current HR2x DVRs (MRV coming).



> 2- VOD add on's from Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster on Demand. in HD also.


Very unlikely to happen for reasons others have posted. Besides, you can stream Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. right now to the HR2x platform via DLNA and programs like PlayOn. Tivo unfortunately doesn't do DLNA so hope would be less there.



> 3- full program via web and mobile devices like iphone, blackberry


Already exists for old DirecTivo's and HR2x platform so pretty likely.



> 4- full Tivo to Go ability,


Never happen.



> 5- ability to backup titles off the DVR to hard drive, or burn to Blu-Ray or DVD in HD. ie via Toast on my mac.


Never happen.



> 6- Full Directv VOD integration, to be able to get Directv PPV VOD, Sports channels special mix and much more. also network VOD que's


I highly doubt it would ship without this functionality since in the initial press release it was said that it must run on DirecTV's networked platform.



> it is time that people get full functionality back, instead of being prevented from recording for home use, people should be able to keep virtually all programs for future watching. ie programs we pay for on HBO, Showtime, broadcast and cable networks.


This isn't a fault of DirecTV. Thank Hollywood. Tivo has always skirted the edge of this issue and barely gotten away with it. Others weren't so lucky.

You really need to temper your expectation because to expect this new DirecTivo box to have all the functionality of the stand alone Tivo, well, it's just never gonna happen.


----------



## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> This isn't a fault of DirecTV. Thank Hollywood.


I'm growing tired of this line.

It's not like the standalone Tivo, Cablecard-equipped PC's, etc etc are the consumer electronics version of (the old) Napster. They manage to survive, and not be sued off of the face of the planet by "Hollywood".

If the D* Tivo doesn't have the full abilities of a standalone, it will likely be because of a combination of D*'s inability to implement it properly, or D*'s unwillingness to compete with home-grown products.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

hancox said:


> If the D* Tivo doesn't have the full abilities of a standalone, it will likely be because of a combination of D*'s inability to implement it properly, or D*'s unwillingness to compete with home-grown products.


While I'd love to see a "_TRUE_" TiVo for DirecTV, I can certainly understand why DirecTV (and Comcast) would be afraid to tick off content providers.

I agree with the previous posters on all their responses regarding the chances of certain features making it to the NEW DirecTiVo... with one exception.

I don't think DirecTV would run into any issues with allowing copying from one TiVo to another.... if said TiVo's were on the same account. Quite frankly, the ability to move content from one DVR to another would certainly be worthy of a few extra dollars per month... especially now when I think my external hard drive may be going bad... and I'd LOVE to be able to copy some programs over from one DVR to another.

~Alan


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> Quite frankly, the ability to move content from one DVR to another would certainly be worthy of a few extra dollars per month...


Have to agree with you on this point. That would make me take notice. I'm no fan of the Tivo GUI though and am very happy with the HR series. But I would like the ability to move content from one DVR to another on the same account.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

hancox said:


> or D*'s unwillingness to compete with home-grown products.


That is your answer right there. The big Hollywood thing is just an excuse to support their cause.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> That is your answer right there. The big Hollywood thing is just an excuse to support their cause.


And what "cause" is that?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> [...] This isn't a fault of DirecTV. Thank Hollywood. Tivo has always skirted the edge of this issue and barely gotten away with it. Others weren't so lucky [...]


Both TiVo and Sling (now Echostar) have been allowing remote viewing of recordings for years without incurring Hollywood's wrath. I'm pretty sure some comparable functionality is on DirecTV's "to do" list, but just not as high a priority as DLB's, MRV, whole home DVR, etc.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the "network services" audio and video ports are there for... to allow streaming of HR2x recordings on the home LAN to a cell phone or internet browsing device on the WAN. Just my .02.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Steve said:


> In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the network services audio and video ports are there for... to allow streaming of audio and video from HR2x's on the home network to a cell phone or internet browsing device. Just my .02.


The current HR2x DVRs will never be able to stream over the Internet without some sort of external encoder. They simply do not have the capability to cut the stream down to an acceptable bitrate.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The current HR2x DVRs will never be able to stream over the Internet without some sort of external encoder. They simply do not have the capability to cut the stream down to an acceptable bitrate.


No, but the MPEG-4 encoders have the ability to simultaneously encode a second, low res stream that can be captured to disk, much like consumer cameras can simultaneously capture a high-res and and e-mail version of a photo. And if not that, than any other thoughts on why they would want to open audio and video ports on an HR2x at all?

Probably a good discussion for a dedicated thread.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess it depends on what you think is acceptable. Seems to me that they downscale to 480i pretty well.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> And what "cause" is that?


to limit the competition.

I still to this day wonder why DTV set another agreement with TIVO.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hancox said:


> If the D* Tivo doesn't have the full abilities of a standalone, it will likely be because of a combination of D*'s inability to implement it properly, or D*'s unwillingness to compete with home-grown products.


I don't know if TiVo2Go will be available with a DIRECTiVo or not, but DIRECTV will not be implementing anything in the TiVo software .. Last I checked, TiVo wrote TiVo code. I doubt DIRECTV will be party to letting it's streams travel, but with DRM in place .. :shrug:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> That is your answer right there. The big Hollywood thing is just an excuse to support their cause.


Or more likely written into the contracts between DIRECTV and the big Hollywood types.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Steve said:


> Both TiVo and Sling (now Echostar) have been allowing remote viewing of recordings for years without incurring Hollywood's wrath. I'm pretty sure some comparable functionality is on DirecTV's "to do" list, but just not as high a priority as DLB's, MRV, whole home DVR, etc.


Steve,

The difference between Tivo and Sling compared with DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos, is that TiVo and Sling do not distribute content. If the content providers stood up to Hollywood, what would that mean? It would mean either significantly higher costs in getting distribution rights or more likely .. no rights at all. It's in the interest of Hollywood and the Content Owners to allow distribution via DIRECTV, etc. but not in their interest to allow re-distribution (via passing DVDs or video files around). Quite simply, Hollywood has a lot more leverage over DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos than it does over the maker of a hardware recording/distribution device. Plus, the former are really bit players compared to the latter .. Big Fish first


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> to limit the competition.
> 
> I still to this day wonder why DTV set another agreement with TIVO.


I can't say that I know the real reason, but the only one that really makes sense is that for DIRECTV this is a win-win. TiVo is 100% responsible for developing the software and if they fail .. DIRECTV isn't really out anything even if they sink some development dollars into the project. If TiVo succeeds, then DIRECTV can offer a choice to it's subscribers .. The key words being "it's subscribers" .. They aren't losing people to other providers and could, in fact, gain additional subscribers.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Steve,
> 
> The difference between Tivo and Sling compared with DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos, is that TiVo and Sling do not distribute content. If the content providers stood up to Hollywood, what would that mean? It would mean either significantly higher costs in getting distribution rights or more likely .. no rights at all. It's in the interest of Hollywood and the Content Owners to allow distribution via DIRECTV, etc. but not in their interest to allow re-distribution (via passing DVDs or video files around). Quite simply, Hollywood has a lot more leverage over DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos than it does over the maker of a hardware recording/distribution device. Plus, the former are really bit players compared to the latter .. Big Fish first


Good point. With that in mind, will be interesting to see how Hollywood reacts to the new Dish 922, which is supposed to have Sling capability built-in. Also, whether it will just "sling" content to devices on the LAN or out to one's iPhone remains to be seen.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

*New DirecTV TiVo HD due in the Spring of 2010*


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> *New DirecTV TiVo HD due in the Spring of 2010*


Nice pic of an HR10-250! And _Multichannel News _apparently has poor math skills to boot. A fall '08 announcement to a spring '10 shipment is not "just under two years". But who's counting? :lol:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I guess it depends on what you think is acceptable. Seems to me that they downscale to 480i pretty well.


Downscaling the video for direct output is done by a dedicated scaling chip. Downscaling for streaming purposes requires re-encoding the video at a lower bitrate, which that chip cannot do.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> *New DirecTV TiVo HD due in the Spring of 2010*


Yeah, they're jumping on this based on an older article based on an old press release. I'm saddened to say that the folks at engadget are usually pretty far behind on the DIRECTV stuff.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> *New DirecTV TiVo HD due in the Spring of 2010*


It is scary to even think it would look like the old HR10-250. :lol:


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## kiljoy (Apr 29, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Steve,
> 
> The difference between Tivo and Sling compared with DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos, is that TiVo and Sling do not distribute content. If the content providers stood up to Hollywood, what would that mean? It would mean either significantly higher costs in getting distribution rights or more likely .. no rights at all. It's in the interest of Hollywood and the Content Owners to allow distribution via DIRECTV, etc. but not in their interest to allow re-distribution (via passing DVDs or video files around). Quite simply, Hollywood has a lot more leverage over DIRECTV, DISH and Cablecos than it does over the maker of a hardware recording/distribution device. Plus, the former are really bit players compared to the latter .. Big Fish first


You're correct. A good litmus test would be "Do the Comcast TiVos do TiVo2Go?" Seems like if they do, then the DirecTiVo should.

(I honestly don't know the answer.)

Although I guess in hindsight the best answer to that question is, "The Comcast TiVos don't _do_ anything."

Tony


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> I still to this day wonder why DTV set another agreement with TIVO.


The main reason for the agreement is that it was a renewal of the support agreement which expired and DirecTV still has a good bit of them in service, although only under a million are left.

2nd is that they renewed their access to Tivo patents and extended the "no sue" clause thru 2018, when a lot of the Tivo patents expire. Funny how that works out. 

Then 3rd is what Doug explained well. It's a no lose situation for DirecTV. At worst they lose a few million in R&D money (drop in the bucket to their revenues). At best they expand their customer base with those few that just can't live without Tivo.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> The main reason for the agreement is that it was a renewal of the support agreement which expired and DirecTV still has a good bit of them in service, although only under a million are left.
> 
> 2nd is that they renewed their access to Tivo patents and extended the "no sue" clause thru 2018, when a lot of the Tivo patents expire. Funny how that works out.
> 
> Then 3rd is what Doug explained well. It's a no lose situation for DirecTV. At worst they lose a few million in R&D money (drop in the bucket to their revenues). At best they expand their customer base with those few that just can't live without Tivo.


+1


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I still to this day wonder why DTV set another agreement with TIVO.





bonscott87 said:


> The main reason for the agreement is that it was a renewal of the support agreement which expired and DirecTV still has a good bit of them in service, although only under a million are left.
> 
> 2nd is that they renewed their access to Tivo patents and extended the "no sue" clause thru 2018, when a lot of the Tivo patents expire. Funny how that works out.
> 
> Then 3rd is what Doug explained well. It's a no lose situation for DirecTV. At worst they lose a few million in R&D money (drop in the bucket to their revenues). At best they expand their customer base with those few that just can't live without Tivo.


Yes, I think these 3 reasons are exactly the right answer to the question.


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

RCY said:


> If you really want that capability, you could get a HTPC and one of these:
> 
> http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
> 
> ...


I have a slingbox, but it isn't a real solution that can allow me to back things up

right now my main goal is a dvr network, which can easily connect with my mac, or if i have to pc windows mode. so i can burn content to a hard drive, disc (dvd or BD) and keep in my home collection.

remember... we have the right legally to do this. to home backup content we are paying for.

seems like Directv is on purpose making it hard to do this. What happened to our Betamax/VHS or even DVD rights?

getting pretty frustrated.

The best solution for me may be to get an HD Tivo XL that will work with my Time Warner cable. at least with cable card and all of this. i know it is a solution that will work.

but i am holding back hope Directv will allow for a couple scenarios that us customers can get our fair use.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> (...)
> seems like Directv is on purpose making it hard to do this. What happened to our Betamax/VHS or even DVD rights?


You may wish to read up on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It governs digital-to-digital copying.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You may wish to read up on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It governs digital-to-digital copying.


They should just rename that act to the "anti consumer act". Next to the patriot act that is one of the worst laws ever passed by congress.

Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves!!!!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I urge anyone who is dissatisfied with the way his government works to try to change it. That being said, let's get back to the topic of TiVo.


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You may wish to read up on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It governs digital-to-digital copying.


 the DMCA does not prohibit consumers from being able to backup paid for content. ie content on channels they pay for on cable / sat tv.

there is no such restriction, it is more about circumventing copyprotected content.

Under no circumstances should content on over the air networks, Basic cable, cable tiers plan, pay tv networks and even paid for sports packages be covered undert this plan.

unless that content is illegally fileshared. I am merely trying to find a solution which will allow me to have a home network storage for programming i like which i have previously paid for in 1 form or another, or be able to burn to BD or DVD disc for archiving.

there should be no restriction from being able to do this. it isn't like i would be copying a CD, copy-protected software or such.

this is backing up legally paid for content.

No different from prior materials. and DMCA ought NOT apply.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

mitchelljd said:


> the DMCA does not prohibit consumers from being able to backup paid for content. ie content on channels they pay for on cable / sat tv.
> 
> there is no such restriction, it is more about circumventing copyprotected content.
> 
> ...


Since it has been interpreted as applying by the governing bodies, it does apply. Like it or not, it is the law of the land at this point in time.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

gregjones said:


> Since it has been interpreted as applying by the governing bodies, it does apply. Like it or not, it is the law of the land at this point in time.


Yep. That's why the MPAA and mostly the music industry has been suing the pants off anybody for copying music. According to the way the DMCA is being interpreted my digital MP3 backups of my physical media CDs is in violation and I could be fined. It is that bad.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> seems like Directv is on purpose making it hard to do this. What happened to our Betamax/VHS or even DVD rights?
> 
> getting pretty frustrated.


I'm pretty sure you can connect a Betamax/VHS or even a DVD recorder to the back of your DIRECTV receiver and make a recording.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mitchelljd said:


> the DMCA does not prohibit consumers from being able to backup paid for content. ie content on channels they pay for on cable / sat tv.


Nor does it facilitate it.

Again, it comes down to what "paid for content" means. Buying a theater ticket or a PPV showing for a film doesn't allow you to view the movie for the run of engagement.

What TiVo enables will be governed very strictly by the least consumer favorable agreement that DIRECTV has.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm pretty sure you can connect a Betamax/VHS or even a DVD recorder to the back of your DIRECTV receiver and make a recording.


Yes you can.


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

joed32 said:


> Yes you can.


I mean't do the same as i would with VHS or Beta with HD.\

IE.... burn HD to BD or DVD. as a perfect copy backup. or... transfer the file to a media server hard drive in my house for playback later. (haven't done this yet... but i imagine someday i would want to have this instead of discs of stuff i recorded


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> I mean't do the same as i would with VHS or Beta with HD.\
> 
> IE.... burn HD to BD or DVD. as a perfect copy backup. or... transfer the file to a media server hard drive in my house for playback later. (haven't done this yet... but i imagine someday i would want to have this instead of discs of stuff i recorded


Record it off the A/V outputs .. that's, OK .. Copy it from disk-to-disk .. that's not OK. Fair Use doesn't mean unfettered access.


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## generalpatton78 (Dec 17, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Record it off the A/V outputs .. that's, OK .. Copy it from disk-to-disk .. that's not OK. Fair Use doesn't mean unfettered access.


Well if your not breaking a encryption that is protected by law yes it is.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

generalpatton78 said:


> Well if your not breaking a encryption that is protected by law yes it is.


That's not the definition, nor has it ever been, of "fair use." That said, the DMCA makes it even LESS likely that "fair use" includes bit-accurate copies of the entirety of an original work.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

generalpatton78 said:


> Well if your not breaking a encryption that is protected by law yes it is.


You still don't have unfettered access regardless of encryption .. Just ask the Churches that tried to show the Super Bowl on big screen TVs to their congregation .. The NFL said "no" which is their right under Copyright laws and that game was available OTA for free.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Some people here seem to think they have a lot more "rights" then they really do. While we may all want or wish there was wide open "fair use" the fact is that it just doesn't exist anymore, especially now with the DMCA.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> You still don't have unfettered access regardless of encryption .. Just ask the Churches that tried to show the Super Bowl on big screen TVs to their congregation .. The NFL said "no" which is their right under Copyright laws and that game was available OTA for free.


That's very different though. Public presentation of copyrighted content is not even remotely similar to creating a copy for personal archival purposes.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Some people here seem to think they have a lot more "rights" then they really do. While we may all want or wish there was wide open "fair use" the fact is that it just doesn't exist anymore, especially now with the DMCA.


Rights and abilities are two different things. DirecTV is not required to give us the ability to exercise our rights.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> That's very different though. Public presentation of copyrighted content is not even remotely similar to creating a copy for personal archival purposes.


Correct .. Just saying unfettered access still does not apply ..


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Correct .. Just saying unfettered access still does not apply ..


Definitely agree with that.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

So no word on the new TiVo box then?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

smiddy said:


> So no word on the new TiVo box then?


Nope, I'm guessing CES2010 will be our next bit of information .. No DIRECTV TiVo there will speak volumes .. If there is a DIRECTV TiVo there, then folks should be able to get a more definitive timeline (even if it's still generalized). There are a few folks here that will be @ CES2010 so we should know one way or the other.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Nope, I'm guessing CES2010 will be our next bit of information .. No DIRECTV TiVo there will speak volumes .. If there is a DIRECTV TiVo there, then folks should be able to get a more definitive timeline (even if it's still generalized). There are a few folks here that will be @ CES2010 so we should know one way or the other.


Well, as it turns out I am going to CES, I'll be staying in the Las Vega Hilton so I can stagger there and back whenever I need to and I will certainly pester the bah-jeez-essss out of the TiVo folks to get information.  Ok, not so strong of an approach, but I will make it known how curious I am to know, you know?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

...if you can find the TiVo folks. They were in a very quiet, secluded little meeting room this past January. Of the three moderators who went, I think I was the only one who made it there.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...if you can find the TiVo folks. They were in a very quiet, secluded little meeting room this past January. Of the three moderators who went, I think I was the only one who made it there.


I'll be hungry to find them.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Be sure to pick up some of that Tivo-branded hand sanitizer if they have it. It really works! (and it doesn't pop up an ad when you pause between applications :lol


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Be sure to pick up some of that Tivo-branded hand sanitizer if they have it. It really works! (and it doesn't pop up an ad when you pause between applications :lol


Does it make the popcorn sound when you depress it?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...if you can find the TiVo folks. They were in a very quiet, secluded little meeting room this past January. Of the three moderators who went, I think I was the only one who made it there.





smiddy said:


> I'll be hungry to find them.


Several of us will try to hunt them down....

Camera will be in hand, of course...


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

FanBoy, that will be my Primary Task at CES, to hunt down The New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO HR30-1000 DVR as I am going to buy one as soon as they come out in Q3 2010. 

Or it may be the HR30-750 hopefully in Q2 2010 but I think it will be Q3 2010 and that is where my money is!


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Who knows if Q3 is viable speculation. Recruiting for Beta hasn't started as of December 11.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

codespy said:


> Who knows if Q3 is viable speculation. Recruiting for Beta hasn't started as of December 11.


Q1 has been the general speculation for a while, but it's looking more and more like Q1 is gonna get passed by as well .. CES2010 should help answer the question.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

If remember correctly when the last HD DirecTV came out years ago. . .

Correct me if I am wrong, I think it came out in March but only those that pre orded could get them as 1,000s wanted them but they only shipped a few hundred. The web site with the owner named Robert was doing pre orders back then. I dont remember the site.
April is when I got mine. By June most could get them. They were about $900+ back then and they were selling like crazy. Image this time if they are say $200 or $400 under the lease upgrade plan.

MY PREDICTION: Released at the the exact Same Time line as last time is my prediction for the new DirecTV HD Tivo 2nd gen. These dates line up with CES perfectly and the same Marketing Team at DirecTV is probably still there, they will want to repeat the success and the free hype and excitement.



richierich said:


> FanBoy, that will be my Primary Task at CES, to hunt down The New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO HR30-1000 DVR as I am going to buy one as soon as they come out in Q3 2010.
> 
> Or it may be the HR30-750 hopefully in Q2 2010 but I think it will be Q3 2010 and that is where my money is!


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Q1 has been the general speculation for a while, but it's looking more and more like Q1 is gonna get passed by as well .. CES2010 should help answer the question.


Sadly, I believe you are correct. I can't imagine, that in the next 90 days, I'll be able to call DirecTv and say..."I'd like one of your new Tivo boxes please, make it two!"


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## generalpatton78 (Dec 17, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> You still don't have unfettered access regardless of encryption .. Just ask the Churches that tried to show the Super Bowl on big screen TVs to their congregation .. The NFL said "no" which is their right under Copyright laws and that game was available OTA for free.


I'm not trying to define fair use because as we know that's very subjective. With that said you made a statement claiming that you can't copy something from disk to disk. I'm saying that's out and out wrong. The DMCA made it illegal to break the copy encryption on DVDs movies ect. There is nothing illegal with recording something from OTA HD onto any type of personal disk. Whether it be a hard drive or DVD style disk. It's also not illegal to make another copy of it for personal use. It is illegal to share via P2P ect. The same applies to cable channels. I've had a Tivo that burns DVD's for years for example. I'm not claiming content owners don't have the right to license the shows to directv in a certain way. Nor does Directv have to provide us with the means to do it. However they are required to obey our laws and regulation concerning selective output controls and other regs that apply to them. They must constantly weigh the balance of consumers demands and content owner demands. Now with the cable and sat companies becoming so involved in the content side I dare say the consumers are in for a rough ride. I mean seriously how long has MRV been on beta a year now?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

scottchez said:


> If remember correctly when the last HD DirecTV came out years ago. . .
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, I think it came out in March but only those that pre orded could get them as 1,000s wanted them but they only shipped a few hundred. The web site with the owner named Robert was doing pre orders back then. I dont remember the site.
> April is when I got mine. By June most could get them. They were about $900+ back then and they were selling like crazy. Image this time if they are say $200 or $400 under the lease upgrade plan.
> ...


Um, just to inform you on what happened with the first HD Tivos.. They where shipped 9 months LATE (ok, may have even big longer, but I believe it ended up being 9 months late) from what was originally expected.. I know this because I worked for a retailer and I talked to my buyer many times about that puppy, and it was really late.. Believe me, it wasn't timed to come out when it actually did on purpose....The only thing I had ever seen delayed longer from Directv was the SRHD500, The first HD boxes from DIrectv that had an integrated OTA and Sat guide.... That was delayed over a year...


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Be sure to pick up some of that Tivo-branded hand sanitizer if they have it. It really works! (and it doesn't pop up an ad when you pause between applications :lol


!rolling Ok, will do...


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Several of us will try to hunt them down....
> 
> Camera will be in hand, of course...


I know, I'll be like a tourist snappy photos of everything.  Gotta get those pictures on here for everyone to see too.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

scottchez said:


> If remember correctly when the last HD DirecTV came out years ago. . .
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, I think it came out in March but only those that pre orded could get them as 1,000s wanted them but they only shipped a few hundred. The web site with the owner named Robert was doing pre orders back then. I dont remember the site.
> April is when I got mine. By June most could get them. They were about $900+ back then and they were selling like crazy. Imagine this time if they are say $200 or $400 under the lease upgrade plan.


I was the First Person to receive an HR10-250 from Robert at valueelectronics.com because I was early on the Pre-Order List and I had it shipped Overnight Express to me and I Activated it on April 12, 2004 at 9:00 A.M.

I again will buy another one as soon as I hear they are available.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

generalpatton78 said:


> I'm not trying to define fair use because as we know that's very subjective. With that said you made a statement claiming that you can't copy something from disk to disk. I'm saying that's out and out wrong.


Oh, then I simply wasn't clear .. You cannot (legally) copy from the HR2x or new TiVo HDD directly to your Computer Disk (or other media) for direct use. I was trying to define fair use and simply stating that it's not as broad as one might think .. You are coming at it from the other side and saying that certain things are fair use regardless of technology .. Yes, certain things are fair use .. but my point is that NOT EVERYTHING is fair use  We're making two entirely different points it seems.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Q1 has been the general speculation for a while, but it's looking more and more like Q1 is gonna get passed by as well .. CES2010 should help answer the question.


I think it's pretty much a given that Q1 isn't going to happen since Tivo themselves have said "Spring" 2010 which in reality pushes it to Q2. I think in their last conference call they were even more vague and wouldn't even commit to Spring so to me that points to maybe a further delay to 2nd half.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Just a reminder... regardless of the outcome this thread will be closed on Dec. 31, 2009 and a new one will open January 1, 2010.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I think it's pretty much a given that Q1 isn't going to happen since Tivo themselves have said "Spring" 2010 which in reality pushes it to Q2. I think in their last conference call they were even more vague and wouldn't even commit to Spring so to me that points to maybe a further delay to 2nd half.


That's kinda what I'm hearing from anyone that is willing to even give a head nod. However, I'm willing to wait a couple of weeks to see what comes out of CES. Certainly if nothing comes out of it then it is going to be WAY late .. Q1 was OK late, but if it stretches to Q3 or Q4 .. well honestly, what's the point? The legend of TiVo may simply be bigger than the reality.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Been three quotes that I can remember ... 

"late-2009", I should check, it may have been just "2009" ... 

then several months ago it was "early 2010" ... 

and then recently "2010".


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm standing by 1Q11 for a generally available device.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Perhaps a few of us may learn something perusing around the Tivo group at the CES in a couple of weeks...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...if you can find the TiVo folks. They were in a very quiet, secluded little meeting room this past January. Of the three moderators who went, I think I was the only one who made it there.


Seems like this thread is going in circles...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps a few of us may learn something perusing around the Tivo group at the CES in a couple of weeks...


A few questions for the checklist ... when you corner the guy/gal 

1. Will the new TiVo firmware only run on new hardware (not available for HR23 or prior)?

2. Assuming only on new hardware, will you be able to a download upgrade from the DirecTV developed firmware, to the TiVo firmware?

3. Will the TiVo code support DirecTV MRV (stream), or TiVo MRV (copy/play), or Both?

4. Will TiVo MRV inter-operate with non-TiVo MRV?

5. HD GUI? with Picture-in-Guide (PIG)?

6. TiVo2Go?

7. New Peanut with colored buttons? How about TiVo Glo?

8. DLB as it has always been?

9. TiVo Desktop Support (2.8 or later) for Music/Video/Photos?

10. Assuming, but may want to confirm ... SWM, DoD, Interactive, AM21

Others may want to know lots of other stuff, but that's my top 10 list.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sixto said:


> A few questions for the checklist ... when you corner the guy/gal


Your list and my list overlap a fair amount...now we'll just have to see if we can even find a person there who's willing to answer 1 or more of them.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I wish you all the luck in the world in getting those questions answered. Hopefully you'll be far more successful than I have been.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Sixto said:


> A few questions for the checklist ... when you corner the guy/gal
> ...





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Your list and my list overlap a fair amount...


Ask them if the new TiVo will be showing an endless loop of "Duke Nukem Forever" trailers . . .


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I wish you all the luck in the world in getting those questions answered. Hopefully you'll be far more successful than I have been.


I strongly suspected luck and some form of arm twisting would be involved. :lol:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Sixto said:


> A few questions for the checklist ... when you corner the guy/gal
> 
> 1. Will the new TiVo firmware only run on new hardware (not available for HR23 or prior)?
> 
> ...


According to an excerpt from a *10-Q SEC Filing*, filed by TIVO INC on 6/9/2009 and previously referenced in this thread, _"All DIRECTV TE Receivers must include a TiVo logo on the front bezel of the hardware."_ So the first question seems like one to which you already know the answer.

But for the life of me I can't parse the second question. Did you mean "would you allow DirecTV developed firmware to be downloaded over TiVo firmware, erasing it?" (If you didn't, that might still be a good question.)


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

Man i hope its sooner than later,because if tivo comes out a newer (tivo HD4) for cable, then i may switch to verizon fios depending on features and prices of course.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Syzygy said:


> According to an excerpt from a *10-Q SEC Filing*, filed by TIVO INC on 6/9/2009 and previously referenced in this thread, _"All DIRECTV TE Receivers must include a TiVo logo on the front bezel of the hardware."_ So the first question seems like one to which you already know the answer.
> 
> But for the life of me I can't parse the second question. Did you mean "would you allow DirecTV developed firmware to be downloaded over TiVo firmware, erasing it?" (If you didn't, that might still be a good question.)


I think he means if there is a new DirecTV box (lets call it the HR24), that has the same hardware as the new Tivo box, will you be able to buy the HR24, and then later on pay a fee and download the Tivo software onto it.

Because of the quote you mention above, I do not think this will happen either. I think the Tivo software will only be available on a box that says Tivo on the front, meaning you will have to lease that box specifically.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Beerstalker said:


> I think he means if there is a new DirecTV box (lets call it the HR24), that has the same hardware as the new Tivo box, will you be able to buy the HR24, and then later on pay a fee and download the Tivo software onto it.
> 
> Because of the quote you mention above, I do not think this will happen either. I think the Tivo software will only be available on a box that says Tivo on the front, meaning you will have to lease that box specifically.


Exactly.

But to be confirmed, with the questions.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Ask them if the new TiVo will be showing an endless loop of "Duke Nukem Forever" trailers . . .


Ok, I will.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Also, wasn't there a reference to the peanut remote being required in one of those docs?


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

When will the new DirecTV TiVo be released? I think the answer lies here:

When was the Comcast TiVo supposed to be available? When was it really available?
When was the Cox TiVo supposed to be available? When was itreally available?

As much as it pains me I'm putting my money on 2011 or later.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Sixto said:


> A few questions for the checklist ... when you corner the guy/gal
> 
> 1. Will the new TiVo firmware only run on new hardware (not available for HR23 or prior)?
> 
> 2. Assuming only on new hardware, will you be able to a download upgrade from the DirecTV developed firmware, to the TiVo firmware?


Yea, I think as others noted above it will certainly be on new hardware only, not as a download to current hardware. Question really would be if this new hardware could be either or. With a requirement of a Tivo bezel on the box I'd say that's a no either.



> 3. Will the TiVo code support DirecTV MRV (stream), or TiVo MRV (copy/play), or Both?
> 
> 4. Will TiVo MRV inter-operate with non-TiVo MRV?


Previous press releases state that this new Tivo will run on the DirecTV multimedia platform. So given this, if it does MRV it will be the DirecTV MRV and will not have the Tivo version of MRV at all in the box.



> 5. HD GUI? with Picture-in-Guide (PIG)?


HD GUI? Who knows. Could be.
PIG? Most likely since every DirecTV box has it as does every cable box including the Comcast Tivo and the Cox Tivo. I think the question more is, is there an option to turn it off. 



> 6. TiVo2Go?


No way.



> 7. New Peanut with colored buttons? How about TiVo Glo?


As Doug just noted, the recent documents state a Peanut remote will be supplied with the new box.



> 8. DLB as it has always been?


I would guess that it would have the Tivo DLB. Don't see a reason why it wouldn't. But a good thing to confirm.



> 9. TiVo Desktop Support (2.8 or later) for Music/Video/Photos?


Most likely not. Again, the statement that it must run on the DirecTV multimedia platform. Thus it must be DLNA and run like the DirecTV HR2x media share is my take on that. So far Tivo is staying away from DLNA as far as I know. I hope they reverse that and put full DLNA on their stand alones as well. It is the future (and the future is now) and they will be left behind if they don't get on the ball with DLNA. Heck, many Blu-ray players and TVs now have DLNA built in.

So my question off this topic is the DLNA question for the entire Tivo line.



> 10. Assuming, but may want to confirm ... SWM, DoD, Interactive, AM21


I'd guess a yes to most if not all of those. All new DirecTV reciever no matter what are SWM and most new installs now get an SWM only dish/LNB so this new Tivo *has* to be SWM capable. I think the more interesting question beyond is will it have DECA built in.

If it's build for the DirecTV mutlimedia platform I would guess it would have to have DoD and Interactive apps. Good question.

AM21 would have to be a yes if it doesn't have OTA tuners built in.

Lots of good questions here and I think many of them can be answered with this:
Will the Tivo fully support the DirecTV multimedia platform which includes DLNA, Interactive apps and so forth.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Also, wasn't there a reference to the peanut remote being required in one of those docs?


Yes....the new unit will feature that shape remote - or so Tivo stated in their release.

Just to set expectations....thanks for everyone's suggestions by the way...I have them printed out here...but I don't intend to get thrown out of CES...so don't hold your breath on getting many, if not most of those answered. We'll find out what we can...which may not be all that much.

Exhibitors generally frown upon questioning at their booth when it appears similar to the Spanish Inquisition. :lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

...and even more, they're usually briefed on what lines of questioning to avoid.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...and even more, they're usually briefed on what lines of questioning to avoid.


Sooooooooo true.

As one who has been an exhibitor over 150 times at tradeshows (not this one, by the way...in a different industry)....advance planning and "response coaching" is common.

But then again....I've been know to work my way around that all...:lol:


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Sixto said:


> 3. Will the TiVo code support DirecTV MRV (stream), or TiVo MRV (copy/play), or Both?





bonscott87 said:


> Previous press releases state that this new Tivo will run on the DirecTV multimedia platform. So given this, if it does MRV it will be the DirecTV MRV and will not have the Tivo version of MRV at all in the box.


Let us dream a little longer...



Sixto said:


> 7. New Peanut with colored buttons? How about TiVo Glo?





bonscott87 said:


> As Doug just noted, the recent documents state a Peanut remote will be supplied with the new box.


But not what type of peanut. As Sixto noted, TiVo has a fantastic premium remote for the S3. I would say a variation of it would be highly doubtful for the DirecTV unit... BUT odds are that we will see a different "peanut" than previous DirecTiVo incarnations as it would have to add colored buttons to the remote to work with Active applications. I could see them adding a separate ACTIVE button as well. I'd love to see a "RF" option as well... hopefully one that will work better than the current remotes.

The Comcast TiVo "peanut" is altered as well...



Sixto said:


> 8. DLB as it has always been?





bonscott87 said:


> I would guess that it would have the Tivo DLB. Don't see a reason why it wouldn't. But a good thing to confirm.


30 minute buffer, or 1.5 hour buffer? If so, for both tuners, or just one?

The Comcast TiVo has a pathetic buffer, but then it has a MUCH smaller hard drive.



Sixto said:


> 9. TiVo Desktop Support (2.8 or later) for Music/Video/Photos?





bonscott87 said:


> Most likely not. Again, the statement that it must run on the DirecTV multimedia platform. Thus it must be DLNA and run like the DirecTV HR2x media share is my take on that. So far Tivo is staying away from DLNA as far as I know. I hope they reverse that and put full DLNA on their stand alones as well. It is the future (and the future is now) and they will be left behind if they don't get on the ball with DLNA. Heck, many Blu-ray players and TVs now have DLNA built in.


I'd take TiVo Desktop over MediaShare any day.



Sixto said:


> 10. Assuming, but may want to confirm ... SWM, DoD, Interactive, AM21





bonscott87 said:


> I'd guess a yes to most if not all of those. All new DirecTV reciever no matter what are SWM and most new installs now get an SWM only dish/LNB so this new Tivo *has* to be SWM capable.


Full agreement on the above.



bonscott87 said:


> If it's build for the DirecTV mutlimedia platform I would guess it would have to have DoD and Interactive apps. Good question.


Hasn't it been stated that it would work with DirecTV's interactive features?

Stand-Alone TiVo's already have VOD features (like MusicChoice, etc...), so I would think DoD would be likely...



bonscott87 said:


> AM21 would have to be a yes if it doesn't have OTA tuners built in.


Agreed! *The better question would be whether or not it does OTA like the HR10-250/HR2x HD-DVRs, or the stand-alone TiVos?* With DirecTV receivers, you pick a DMA, and a secondary DMA to provide guide data for. The stand-alone TiVos however work based off of your zip code... thereby allowing me guide data for the three (3) DMAs I receive channels from reliably, and some not as reliably! *Another good question would be whether or not you can scan for channels ala the HR10-250 or stand-alone TiVos?*

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'd take TiVo Desktop over MediaShare any day.


I realize that MediaShare can be painful to use, but that's not the fault of DLNA. It's just a sub-par implementation on DirecTV's receivers. The bottom line is that Tivo Desktop is a proprietary solution to a problem that has already been solved with a standard that has been adopted by everybody else. Time for Tivo to throw in the towel and join the DLNA party.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...and even more, they're usually briefed on what lines of questioning to avoid.


They are programed like Customer Service Reps, without written scrips in front of them.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> I realize that MediaShare can be painful to use, but that's not the fault of DLNA. It's just a sub-par implementation on DirecTV's receivers. The bottom line is that Tivo Desktop is a proprietary solution to a problem that has already been solved with a standard that has been adopted by everybody else. Time for Tivo to throw in the towel and join the DLNA party.


While my PS3 works considerably better than MediaShare at DLNA functions... I still have issues with it... whereas I've never had any issues with TiVo Desktop until I started using the RC of Windows 7... and I believe that's due to my own personal errors... and not the fault of Tivo Desktop.

DLNA should be superior to TiVo Desktop, but I have yet to see it perform better with my own eyes... so until I do, I still prefer TiVo Desktop.

~Alan


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> According to an excerpt from a *10-Q SEC Filing*, filed by TIVO INC on 6/9/2009 and previously referenced in this thread, _"All DIRECTV TE Receivers must include a TiVo logo on the front bezel of the hardware."_ So the first question seems like one to which you already know the answer.
> 
> But for the life of me I can't parse the second question. Did you mean "would you allow DirecTV developed firmware to be downloaded over TiVo firmware, erasing it?" (If you didn't, that might still be a good question.)


So they mail those that want to utilize the extra cost option a 0.00001 cent decal for them to stick where every they want to, contract condition satisfied


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Be sure to pick up some of that Tivo-branded hand sanitizer if they have it. It really works! (and it doesn't pop up an ad when you pause between applications :lol


what ever marketing sqwueezal thought up that idea must have lost their position because of no popup ads on a handout for violatiing primary company policy


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> So they mail those that want to utilize the extra cost option a 0.00001 cent decal for them to stick where every they want to, contract condition satisfied


I don't think Tivo would be satisfied by that, but it's a moot point since there is no way that boxes will be field-convertable.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Alan Gordon said:


> While my PS3 works considerably better than MediaShare at DLNA functions... I still have issues with it... whereas I've never had any issues with TiVo Desktop until I started using the RC of Windows 7... and I believe that's due to my own personal errors... and not the fault of Tivo Desktop.


Actually I think Tivo Desktop wasn't compatible with Windows 7 early on due to how it handled some processes. I know the latest version released in Oct/Nov fixed the issue.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I don't think Tivo would be satisfied by that, but it's a moot point since there is no way that boxes will be field-convertable.


Do you have any evidence to support the claim regarding field upgrades?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> Do you have any evidence to support the claim regarding field upgrades?


Nope, just trusty old common sense.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I can say this... I have been told that there really isn't any facility built into the DVRs themselves that would let you completely change the DVR from DIRECTV to TiVo in the field. There just isn't a way to get to that part of the system.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm not sure why a download - similar to CE- during a particular window, wouldn't load the Tivo software - if we're talking about it working on the HR2x series.

Possibly your account might have to be 'authorized'.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

dennisj00 said:


> I'm not sure why a download - similar to CE- during a particular window, wouldn't load the Tivo software - if we're talking about it working on the HR2x series.
> 
> Possibly your account might have to be 'authorized'.


Just because it's technically feasible doesn't mean that DirecTV will allow it. Look at how tough it is to "upgrade" the R22 to an HD DVR .... Even though its software supports it, DirecTV's back office systems don't, unless the customer has some other HD equipment on their account.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> I'm not sure why a download - similar to CE- during a particular window, wouldn't load the Tivo software - if we're talking about it working on the HR2x series.


It's because the Tivo software and bootloader are drastically different from DirecTV's stuff. The changes are too big to be accomplished by a download.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Software is software.

It's good you have such authorative inside information


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> Software is software.
> 
> It's good you have such authorative inside information


I get this, but it is an almost certainty that the bootloader would have to be flashed .. I'm sure it's even possible to flash the bootloader in the field, but even if it is possible, I'd question the wisdom of doing that ..

I've been surprised before, and it could happen again, but I would be very surprised if TiVo was a field upgradeable option.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

From other side, (I don't have info how often DTV changing bootloaders via sat spool) Dish does that [sometimes] for own DVRs - recently 622 and 722 models got new bootloader.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> Software is software.


No, it's not.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Jeremy you have drunk too much Punch, my son and now it is time for you to go to bed!!!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

richierich said:


> Jeremy you have drunk too much Punch, my son and now it is time for you to go to bed!!!


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I find it hard to understand why the Tivo load couldn't be adapted to the current boot loader if it's going to happen on the current HRs.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dennisj00 said:


> I find it hard to understand why the Tivo load couldn't be adapted to the current boot loader if it's going to happen on the current HRs.


What makes you think it already hasn't...and simply needs to be activated at that time? :lol:

OK....now I'm starting rumors....belay that order.:lol::lol::lol:


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I was just responding to the statements above that the differences were too big to be accomplished by a download!!


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

dennisj00 said:


> I was just responding to the statements above that the differences were too big to be accomplished by a download!!


It can't download stuff to the HDD that can hold part of the OS?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

No question - TiVo always used a disk as storage for OS parts.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

P Smith said:


> No question - TiVo always used a disk as storage for OS parts.


Yup, this is true. It's not clear what will happen in this situation as theoretically, Tivo could use the flash for the OS in the same manner that DIRECTV does. But, that would be a break from normal for TiVo.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Developers are generally very adapt at adapting to the platform at hand. At least I hope they are!


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Brennok said:


> Actually I think Tivo Desktop wasn't compatible with Windows 7 early on due to how it handled some processes. I know the latest version released in Oct/Nov fixed the issue.


BTW, thank you, Brennok! I updated, and now it's once again working perfectly!

*And now back to topic...*



Doug Brott said:


> Yup, this is true. It's not clear what will happen in this situation as theoretically, Tivo could use the flash for the OS in the same manner that DIRECTV does. But, that would be a break from normal for TiVo.


How exactly does updating boxes to TiVo for Comcast works? My understanding is that it takes a long time to update, as in hour(s).

While I can see the benefits of downloading the TiVo OS to currently deployed boxes, I'm hoping for seperate boxes.

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm hoping for seperate boxes.


Why?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> Why?


Though it's been said many times, many ways, that the HR2x series and TiVo HD units have (basically) the same organs, which means this isn't like Comcast where the boxes specs are inferior, I still prefer the idea of a DirecTiVo unit being built from the ground up.

~Alan


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I still prefer the idea of a DirecTiVo unit being built from the ground up.


All of the facts point to a different shell with an HR2x inside. So that's not happening.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> All of the facts point to a different shell with an HR2x inside. So that's not happening.


I'm not aware of the facts, only the rumors that it will be a different box.

If it doesn't happen, that's fine. People have said that the insides weren't that different. I just said I found it preferable.

I do hope they create an aesthetically pleasing exterior though, as I'm quite fond of the HR21/22/23 exterior (aside from the fact that I wish my HR23 had a glossy finish like my AM21).

~Alan


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm definitely not on the design team, so I could be wrong, but I'm really on the same page as Jeremy with this one.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm definitely not on the design team, so I could be wrong, but I'm really on the same page as Jeremy with this one.


I just got a shiver when I read this. :grin:


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It will be nice to finally see the result of the development effort since the 9/2/2008 signing ... been much speculation that there will be one new unit and both the DirecTV and TiVo firmware will run on it. One carton with the DirecTV usual accessories, and another with the Peanut remote / TiVo manual and usual accessories. Identical internal components.

Would also speculate that we'll know by 6/30/2010, possibly April/May 2010.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...and even more, they're usually briefed on what lines of questioning to avoid.


I agree, and this is definitely one of those questions, but would any of you ask them anyway?

What did your CEO mean when he recently said, people should consider TiVo as a DVR company to be history?

Seems to me TiVo is moving away from a DVR company to a viewer behavior monitoring company, of course we don't know if the new DirecTiVo viewers will be part of such effort, if it ever becomes available.


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## waynenm (Oct 31, 2006)

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure I'll ultimately go back to a TIVO interface when it's available. The whole thing reminds me of why I switched to Mac years ago.
It's just plain better. I recognize the few things that the HR series does slightly better,
but the basic TIVO GUI is...just plain better IMHO. If the TIVO software works inside of an HR box with a Flashed upgrade, I would be thrilled. And, I'd pay for it.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Sixto said:


> It will be nice to finally see the result of the development effort since the 9/2/2008 signing ... been much speculation that there will be one new unit and both the DirecTV and TiVo firmware will run on it. One carton with the DirecTV usual accessories, and another with the Peanut remote / TiVo manual and usual accessories. Identical internal components.
> 
> Would also speculate that we'll know by 6/30/2010, possibly April/May 2010.


Since the signing they should have the hardware completed and the software should be well on its way towards RC. I wouldn't be surprised to see something at CES in two weeks.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

smiddy said:


> Since the signing they should have the hardware completed and the software should be well on its way towards RC. I wouldn't be surprised to see something at CES in two weeks.


I used to think this .. I'm not sure now. I hope there is something to see otherwise it will be a long road left for the TiVo.


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

I thought i read somewhere that directv would not be at ces this year! or was that tivo? or both?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

celticpride said:


> I thought i read somewhere that directv would not be at ces this year! or was that tivo? or both?


Tivo should be there, but not DirecTV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> Tivo should be there, but not DirecTV.


We'll let you know what we find there in less than 2 weeks now...

Yes, Tivo is scheduled to be there.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We'll let you know what we find there in less than 2 weeks now...
> 
> Yes, Tivo is scheduled to be there.


Not been a peep or leak in almost 16 months. Be interesting if you hear/see anything.

They sure are good at keeping a secret.  (or it's a long way off)


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We'll let you know what we find there in less than 2 weeks now...
> 
> Yes, Tivo is scheduled to be there.


TIVO will probably have a small booth there somewhere and I hope that it doesn't take me too long to find it. Directv will not be there for the second year in a row and I was hoping that they would be there to show the HR24-750.

We'll take lots of pictures!!!


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## Derwood (Dec 19, 2006)

At www.cesweb.org they are showing Tivo with 3 small rooms and DirecTV absent.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> TIVO will probably have a small booth there somewhere and I hope that it doesn't take me too long to find it. Directv will not be there for the second year in a row and I was hoping that they would be there to show the HR24-750.
> 
> We'll take lots of pictures!!!


I already have it on my personal visit location map sir. 

As for seeing the device you reference...good luck with that.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If it's the same little suite they had in '09, it'll take some walking to get there. Very far off the beaten track.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I already have it on my personal visit location map sir.
> 
> As for seeing the device you reference...good luck with that.


Hey, can't I have my hopes and dreams!!!

Also, a Beautiful Brand New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO unit that will be in my Den by the Fourth of July!!!

Fanboy, want to take any bets on that!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> If it's the same little suite they had in '09, it'll take some walking to get there. Very far off the beaten track.


Will I need a GPS?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Will I need a GPS?


Nope - its on my layout map.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nope - its on my layout map.


EXCELLENT!!!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You won't need a GPS but some sturdy shoes and a willingness to climb steps wouldn't be a bad idea. Also a long playlist for your personal music player while you're getting there...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You won't need a GPS but some sturdy shoes and a willingness to climb steps wouldn't be a bad idea. Also a long playlist for your personal music player while you're getting there...


I'm already doing my workouts for that Tivo location safari at the CES.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You won't need a GPS but some sturdy shoes and a willingness to climb steps wouldn't be a bad idea. Also a long playlist for your personal music player while you're getting there...


Well, I am bringing my GPS for getting around Vegas even though I will have a well informed Tour Guide (he's good but not cheap) and I will bring my new IPOD with 4,200 songs on it so that should keep me entertained while I search for the elusive TIVO Booth!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Well, I am bringing my GPS for getting around Vegas even though I will have a well informed Tour Guide (he's good but not cheap) and I will bring my new IPOD with 4,200 songs on it so that should keep me entertained while I search for the elusive TIVO Booth!


You don't need a GPS in Vegas...just plenty of cabfare in your pockets.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm bringing Plenty Of Cash for Cabfare this time because you walked me to death last time so cabfares are on me and dinner is on you. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> I'm bringing Plenty Of Cash for Cabfare this time because you walked me to death last time so cabfares are on me and dinner is on you. :lol:


Time to send out those customer service billing invoices I see. :lol:

In any case...definitely the Tivo room will be a must-see at the CES in about 1 1/2 weeks from now..


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You don't need a GPS in Vegas...just plenty of cabfare in your pockets.


They have a monorail there as well.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

richierich said:


> Hey, can't I have my hopes and dreams!!!
> 
> Also, a Beautiful Brand New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO unit that will be in my Den by the Fourth of July!!!
> 
> Fanboy, want to take any bets on that!


Rich,

I'd probably take that bet, except you didn't say what year!!

7/4/2010 - nope.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I am putting all of my money in for July 4th, 2010!!! :lol:

I have a little Birdie that told me so!!!

As I have told you recently Rich, sometimes you just have to Trust the Little Birdie!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JoeTheDragon said:


> They have a monorail there as well.


Too far to walk to the monorail....:lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

We are going to be in "TAXILAND" as I don't do the Walking Thing Very Well.

I actually pay someone to Jog for me as I don't like to do it and don't have the time for it.


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Though it's been said many times, many ways, that the HR2x series and TiVo HD units have (basically) the same organs, which means this isn't like Comcast where the boxes specs are inferior, I still prefer the idea of a DirecTiVo unit being built from the ground up.
> 
> ~Alan


I agree with you.

with extra features not just software enabled. i don't trust the HR2x series hardware to be the most advanced.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mitchelljd said:


> with extra features not just software enabled. i don't trust the HR2x series hardware to be the most advanced.


The HR2x hardware is *the same* as the Tivo hardware. Anything Tivo has done on their hardware can be done on the HR2x hardware, because it is *the same*.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mitchelljd said:


> i don't trust the HR2x series hardware to be the most advanced.


Guess we won't really know that until we see what is in store for the new Tivobox and its cousin, the DirecTV DVR version.


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## bondheli (Dec 31, 2009)

Tivo PR:

ALVISO, Calif., Dec 30, 2009 PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX -- TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), today announced that President and CEO Tom Rogers will present at the Citi Global Entertainment Media & Telecommunications Conference on January 5th. The webcast of the presentation will be available on the Investor Relations section of the TiVo website under the events calendar tab. 

Directv PR:

EL SEGUNDO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--DIRECTV will present at Citi’s 20th Annual Global Entertainment, Media & Telecommunications Conference on Tuesday Jan. 5, 2010 at 12:45 p.m. (PT)/3:45 p.m. (ET). The presentation will include an update and outlook on the DIRECTV businesses. A live webcast of the presentation will be available on the directv website and an archive of the webcast will also be available on this website. 



Directv speculation from fudzilla:


It seems after the successful launch of the latest DirecTV satellite, some shadow dwellers are telling of a big showing by DirecTV at CES. Those claiming to be in the know say that the company will be pulling out all of the stops in an effort to attract some attention at CES this year, including whispers that more details of the availability of new gear will be among the news to arrive.

According to the whispers we hear, the company will take the wraps off the much talked about new HD TiVo-powered DVR box, and are talking about an actual release date for it. If this isn’t enough, talk also seems to be centering around the likely showing of a new DirecTV powered DVR model, as well, which has also been rumored for some time.

While the focus will clearly continue to be on the additional 200 HD channels that the DirecTV 12 satellite will be able to deliver, including the 3D HD channel that we told you about yesterday (the additional bandwidth provided by the new Ka-band satellite) the company is looking to focus on the end user choices and experience; and that is where the new DVR receivers come into play.

While no one is talking yet as to what kind of release date we can expect DirecTV to announce, we predict that it is likely a safe bet that it will be in the late first quarter or early second quarter when DirecTV 12 comes online.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

bondheli said:


> Tivo PR:
> 
> ALVISO, Calif., Dec 30, 2009 PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX -- TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), today announced that President and CEO Tom Rogers will present at the Citi Global Entertainment Media & Telecommunications Conference on January 5th. The webcast of the presentation will be available on the Investor Relations section of the TiVo website under the events calendar tab.
> 
> ...


:welcome_s

Excellent first post! Since I am going to CES this year, I will be on the lookout for all of the above!


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

bondheli said:


> Tivo PR:
> 
> ALVISO, Calif., Dec 30, 2009 PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX -- TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), today announced that President and CEO Tom Rogers will present at the Citi Global Entertainment Media & Telecommunications Conference on January 5th. The webcast of the presentation will be available on the Investor Relations section of the TiVo website under the events calendar tab.
> 
> ...


This should generate some interesting conversation. :hurah:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

smiddy said:


> :welcome_s
> 
> Excellent first post! Since I am going to CES this year, I will be on the lookout for all of the above!


+1. I just emailed hdtvfan0001 a copy of this Post as I know he will be very interested in this latest development.

Look forward to seeing you in Vegas Smiddy.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, since DIRECTV has no booth at CES that I'm aware of, I think their presence there will be somewhat less than what fudzilla forecasts. I'd also like to point out that the Citi conference is more business-to-business and while there may be something in there for us geeks, that most likely won't be the focus.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

D12 will increase Directv's capacity to 200 total HD channels. Where are they getting 200 additional channels from in the article. Sounds like they're making stuff up.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, that's off topic for this thread but: DIRECTV12 has the capacity for 80 HD channels. If you accept that DIRECTV now has over 120 HD channels (which it does or doesn't, depending on how you count them) 120+80=200. 

Let's get back to TiVo, please.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, since DIRECTV has no booth at CES that I'm aware of, I think their presence there will be somewhat less than what fudzilla forecasts. I'd also like to point out that the Citi conference is more business-to-business and while there may be something in there for us geeks, that most likely won't be the focus.


Right - DirecTV will have no booth at the CES this year (nor did they last year) - making it tough to announce, demo, or present much of anything there.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

I anticipate this thread being closed in a few hours


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Good anticipation. I'll probably close it when I get home, so get in your TiVo love for the day sometime before 6pm Eastern.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> +1. I just emailed hdtvfan0001 a copy of this Post as I know he will be very interested in this latest development.
> 
> Look forward to seeing you in Vegas Smiddy.


Yes, I look forward to seeing you too. I know hdtvfan0001 is a little psyched about it too. 

If DirecTV and TiVo are there (but according to Mr. Shadow DirecTV won't be) then I will likelu camp out at their exhibit trying to get tidbits of information on anything and everything I can. 2010 is going to be a great year, Happy New Year man!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Release Notes are now posted...so the mystery is now gone. :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If it was True then Directv would have made some last minute plans to acquire a booth to exhibit whatever it is they want to display and showcase.

Maybe just Snake Oil.

Happy New Year to you and all of the DBSTALKers.

2010 looks like it will be very exciting and promising and I for one am definitely looking forward to it.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

richierich said:


> 2010 looks like it will be very exciting and promising and I for one am definitely looking forward to it.


Me too. A little piece of sunshine for all.

TiVo for those that have a preference, a new satellite that's safely in space with just some distance and testing to complete, lots of new HD channels that have been hinted at satisfying 99% of us, a new Movie service that might be cool, and hopefully some nice horsepower under the hood for both TiVo and non-TiVo. Along with MRV.

2010 is bright. And good riddance to this old previous decade thread.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Sixto said:


> 2010 is bright. And good riddance to this old previous decade thread.


+1. Good Riddance to this thread and Hopefully to those Posters who keep ranting over "The Travel Channel in HD"!!!

Haven't we heard enough of that nonsense. It will be here as soon as D12 is ready to receive transmissions.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

richierich said:


> +1. Good Riddance to this thread and Hopefully to those Posters who keep ranting over "The Travel Channel in HD"!!!
> 
> Haven't we heard enough of that nonsense. It will be here as soon as D12 is ready to receive transmissions.


Hope your right, it will make my wife happy!!!!


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Happy New Years to you all. With or without the new TiVo, we'll still have more HD to look forward to, and that's what I'm focusing on.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Happy New Years to you all. With or without the new TiVo, we'll still have more HD to look forward to, and that's what I'm focusing on.


Oh yes we will, won't we?! :lol: Come on 2010, make it hap'n Cap'n!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ATARI said:


> Happy New Years to you all. With or without the new TiVo, we'll still have more HD to look forward to, and that's what I'm focusing on.


We will have the New MPEG-4 DIRECTIVO and I'll have one sitting in my Den before my next birthday.


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## chefwong (Jan 26, 2008)

OT or on topic....I'd be interested if they make a UI that is HD...Moxi qualirty


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I bet this thread closes within 6 hours.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Or 6 minutes


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