# Writers Strike Discussion Thread



## Bionic Squirrel

Unless they figure out an agreement real quick, it looks like our TV writers are gunna be on strike starting Monday. :icon_cry:

here's a link with lots of info:
http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-writersstrike-2007,0,933616.htmlstory


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## Steve H

From what I have seen with some of the "new fall season" shows I think they are on strike already.


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## Nick

I'm looking forward to seeing how well live-audience shows like Leno & Letterman can ad lib. :lol:


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## richiephx

And we should care why? Network tv is filled with repeats during prime season anyway. Firstly, network tv sucks big time. Secondly, networks could use the time to add more pop ups during repeat programming to make the viewers hate them even more. Maybe networks should go back to more unscripted, live tv. This would be far more entertaining anyway.


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## Bionic Squirrel

It'll be interesting to see what happens, my biggest problem is that they are making a bunch of new reality shows to fill in the gaps.


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## Steve Mehs

> Maybe networks should go back to more unscripted, live tv. This would be far more entertaining anyway.


You're kidding right? I can't see any of the 21 network shows I currently DVR being any good live.


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## Drew2k

Nick said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing how well live-audience shows like Leno & Letterman can ad lib. :lol:


Dave's been joking about this for two weeks, and almost every written skit has had a reference to it. I think Dave'll do OK, and I'm sure Leno will. After all, they're both interviewers and comedians!


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## phrelin

The DVR with the external hard drive is a critical part of the future. We have a 4-DVR-recording-with external-hard-drive-storage-capability which we use to create a "Summer Season supplement" and a "rerun cycle supplement." So, as they run out of episodes due to the strike we'll fill in with unwatched episodes of:

5 Days
Cane
Damages
Dexter
K-Ville
L&O: SVU
Lincoln Heights
Prison Break
Tell Me You Love Me
The Unit

Some of these shows we know we like. While our household is unusual now, this is the wave of the future, along with VOD, DVD's and the web. Of course, we may have to find some other stuff for our Summer Season supplement....


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## Stuart Sweet

I agree that the DVR is the common person's antidote to the writer's strike, in the short run. Hopefully it will be short.


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## Tom Robertson

"The Lads" as we call them, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, have already announced they will be on re-run during the strike. 

Short would be good!

Cheers,
Tom


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## Paul Secic

Bionic Squirrel said:


> Unless they figure out an agreement real quick, it looks like our TV writers are gunna be on strike starting Monday. :icon_cry:
> 
> here's a link with lots of info:
> http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-writersstrike-2007,0,933616.htmlstory


I couldn't give a fig if they strike. I don't watch network TV..


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## Tom Robertson

Alas, the strike affects cable channels as well.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet

> LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Television and movie writers went on strike against producers Monday, a move that will put late-night comedy shows into immediate reruns.


Complete text at:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/05/writers.strike/?iref=mpstoryview


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## Nick

So, now it looks like the so-called comedians are wimping out. It was
announced that Letterman, Leno, Conan, Stewart and Colbert will be
spinnng up the re-reuns.

What's so hard about doing a regular stand-up routine for these so-called
professional comics? Where's their vaunted comedic "talent" for which they
are paid millions? Frankly, I think it would be more entertaining to see these
guys 'wing it'.

Probably a union thing... :shrug:


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## phrelin

Thanks for starting this thread. A good rundown of how programs are going to be affected and regular updates can be found at

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-writersstrike-2007,0,933616.htmlstory

All programming planned for 2008 is likely to be revised as networks, including cable networks, struggle.


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## Stuart Sweet

Merged this with the official discussion thread...


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## Tom Robertson

The late nite guys can likely do a standup gig, and I bet Leno has enough material in his arsenal he could go a full week on standup. The others probably can do a nite or two depending on how much standup they did or still do.

Recall tho there is a lot of research and writing that goes into prepping for the guests. So the shows would be pretty awkward. The hosts might have to actually read the books. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet

I spoke with a TV industry contact who said that there would be relatively little impact on scripted TV airing this month, and December tends to be reruns anyway.


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## Tom Robertson

And the producers could always start filming a third or fourth incarnation of _Mission Impossible _as they did a strike or two ago. 

Anyone for _Knight Rider 2008_? 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott

yes Stuart, but it is likely that if it goes on too long that we'll have a protracted rerun period as they play catch-up. I wonder if the teamsters are going to cross the picket lines .. If they don't then production halts today


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## Tom Robertson

Production has been known to move to Vancouver or Toronto at times like this.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet

Tom Robertson said:


> Anyone for _Knight Rider 2008_?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I know you thought you were joking but...

http://moviesandwheels.blogspot.com/2007/08/update-on-2008-knight-rider.html

BTW I agree that it will have an effect on 2008 programming, just reassuring our members that scripted programming in 11/2007 should be unaffected.


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## Tom Robertson

!rolling I was joking!

At least about _Knight Rider 2008_, though now that you mention it, I sorta recall seeing something about it. Must have been my subconscious pushing forth. 

As for _Mission Impossible_, there really was an attempt to resurrect the show during one prolonged writers strike recycling the original scripts.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet

There are some articles out there about editors and showrunners honoring the strike as well, so if there really is a lot of solidarity it would be hard to do anything but shut down production.


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## phrelin

If the Screen Actors Guild (who have a contract that expires in two years with some of the same residual issues looming) and the Teamsters refuse to cross the picket lines, maybe the networks can publish their existing script backlog on their web sites as PDF files for us to read. And if they won't cross the picket lines, SAG members won't go to Canada as strike breakers.

Remember, these people are "piece workers" with seasonal employment and no benefits outside the union. Residuals represent their monthly cash flow.


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## Paul Secic

Tom Robertson said:


> Alas, the strike affects cable channels as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I just watch TCM, TVLAND, USA, [email protected] so this doesn't effect me.


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## Nick

Reruns! :hair: 

First, a water shortage, now this -- it's always the common man who suffers most.


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## Steve Mehs

Paul Secic said:


> I couldn't give a fig if they strike. I don't watch network TV..


But millions and millions of other people do. Nice attitude there, Capitan Sunshine.


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## Stewart Vernon

Worth noting that it used to be that the hosts of the late night talk shows were also part of the writers' guild since many of them were comic writers before getting the hosting gig... so it is entirely possible they might either have to strike OR would want to in order to support their fellow writers.

I remember the last major strike... Johnny Carson was off for a while, but came back before the strike ended and was writing all his own stuff for at least a week or 2. Good stuff, but he also had shown support for the writers by striking with them at first.

I'm not a fan of strikes, nor a fan of unions... but most of us want credit and payment for our work.

Sometimes when you go to work you sign an agreement that anything you create is work-for-hire and the company owns anything you create on the job. In that case, you are entitled to no residuals or royalties beyond your agreed upon pay. If you are a strong inventor, then it behooves you not to sign such a contract in the first place.

Sometimes, to get your foot in the door, you have to sign that... work and create some good stuff to get a reputation... then next time you can sign a contract worth more and get a piece of the action as well.

I know studios will try and screw the hired help, in this case writers... so I don't mind them going back for more... but I have to think there is something better than a strike.


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## Cholly

Having at one time worked for NBC as a broadcast engineer, I can attest to the fact that given the opportunity, the networks would screw their employees. We were a union shop (NABET), and as such when we worked crazy hours with short time off between shifts, we were compensated. However, management had a little trick of hiring engineers and just before they got on the seniority list, they would be laid off. Shortly after the layoffs, selected engineers would be rehired and would have to serve new hire time all over again at entry level pay.


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## Chris Blount

I think Hollywood should pull a Ronald Reagan on these cry babies. Fire all of them and bring in new writers. 

Strikes like these are really stupid. For some reason Hollywood thinks the world will end if we don't have TV shows to watch.


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## Mark Holtz

They can always outsouce the writing to India. 

Folks, I'm ready for nice, healthy, LONG strike. The mega-mass media-conglomerates think that the pittance they pay for writers is too much. They also think that less-episodes is actually more, especially if they super-size the episodes. And, how much quality network television is really there? 

Unfortunately, the good writing isn't really there. What does get written is often changed and dumbed-down by the producers and executives. Can you really say television is better?


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## Doug Brott

If the strike goes on long enough, we'll all just have to entertain ourselves here ..


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## Nick

Doug Brott said:


> If the strike goes on long enough, we'll all just have to entertain ourselves here ..


Well, that's not so bad.. I've been 'entertaining' myself for years, ever since the divorce.

Excuse me, I have to go... :sure:


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## Stuart Sweet

Uh, ok. Thanks for sharing.
:backtotop


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## txtommy

Nick said:


> So, now it looks like the so-called comedians are wimping out. It was
> announced that Letterman, Leno, Conan, Stewart and Colbert will be
> spinnng up the re-reuns.
> 
> What's so hard about doing a regular stand-up routine for these so-called
> professional comics? Where's their vaunted comedic "talent" for which they
> are paid millions? Frankly, I think it would be more entertaining to see these
> guys 'wing it'.
> 
> Probably a union thing... :shrug:


Agreed. The best parts of Leno and Letterman are the ad lib portions or regular skits that shouldn't require any written material ('Stump the Band' or 'Will it Float?'). Just hire one more person per show to interview and they can fill the time easily. Or better yet, have the musical performer do a couple songs in the middle of the show instead of as filler at the end.


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## Lord Vader

Chris Blount said:


> I think Hollywood should pull a Ronald Reagan on these cry babies. Fire all of them and bring in new writers.


That was probably the best thing President Reagan ever did. I so loved it when he canned all those ATCers en masse when _they broke the law_ and went on strike. For one thing, it showed people that Reagan had balls!


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## Doug Brott

I'd like this thing to get settled for personal reasons .. I don't care who wins as long as the shows make their way back to production .. That way our programs can keep going.


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## Lord Vader

If this doesn't get settled this week, Doug, don't be surprised if this one drags on for a *very * long time. Hollywood just doesn't believe the writers have much to complain about, and it's not willing to budge on the issues writers are griping about most, that being the DVD and new technology royalties.


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## Stuart Sweet

I applaud people for trying to make better lives for themselves, that's all. I'd say that's what the writers are doing, whether or not they are doing it in a way that makes sense to a non-writer.


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## SamC

As a consumer, as in most strikes, my sympathies are with the bosses. In any strike, its everybody else vs. those on strike. It all comes out of your pocket in the end. 

This strike seems especially odd. The writers seem to want money for "new media". Why? If they make a fair wage for "old media", what business is it of theirs if the producers sell the material 1000 times elsewhere. Its kind of like the UAW wanting to be paid not only out of what the new car buyer pays, but a share of the used car sales.

Anyway, if this goes a long time:

- The topical late night shows are already shut down. Totally writer dependent.

- The regular primetime entertainment seems to have until January. Most series have enough episodes in the can to get through November, and December is reruns anyway. 

- After that, it would seem that they can get buy with rerunning the original shows once. After that, they can dip into previous seasons, which would necesitate taking new for fall 07 shows down. 

- The best positioned network would be Fox. All of the animated shows have a much longer lead time, since the scripts must be sent to Korea for anamation a year before production and do not involve during filming re-writes, so they have a whole year's worth in production already, plus they have more popular "non-scripted" so-called reality shows like American Idol. Plus Fox has the Super Bowl, early season NASCAR, and have seven hours less per week, not counting late night, to cover anyway. CBS could get away with plenty of March Madness as well.

- If this goes a really long time, the whole Hollyweird crew may discover that ratings do not go down all that much, if the networks program appropriatly. ABC could simply dip into the ESPN contracts and have lots of college basketball in the winter.


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## Lord Vader

FOX may do well, but I'll bet _24 _would be in trouble.


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## Doug Brott

SamC said:


> - If this goes a really long time, the whole Hollyweird crew may discover that ratings do not go down all that much, if the networks program appropriatly. ABC could simply dip into the ESPN contracts and have lots of college basketball in the winter.


:nono2: I hope that wouldn't be the same as the Eastern Airlines Pilots thinking that going on strike was a good thing.


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## Doug Brott

Lord Vader said:


> FOX may do well, but I'll bet _24 _would be in trouble.


Hey, doesn't 24 only take a day to shoot :grin:?


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## Bertrude

I, for one, can't wait for more "reality" and game shows. We don't have enough of that [strike]garbage[/strike] quality entertainment on the air already.

I read that Heroes: Origins has already been shelved indefinitely, and I worry that the new season of BSG might be delayed now, as well.

I hope for a quick resolution to this strike, and I hope for one in the writers' favor. After all, writers contribute a lot more to art and entertainment than producers do. It's already perverse enough that they make a fraction of the cash. I'd like to seem them hold out for as much as they can get, but at the same time, I'd hate to see more "lowest common denominator" programming getting the green light.


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## Steve Mehs

> but at the same time, I'd hate to see more "lowest common denominator" programming getting the green light.


It already got the green light, it's called Kid Nation.


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## Lord Vader

Considering that the mediators on each side absolutely despise each other, don't be surprised that this thing lasts a while. If it's not settled soon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it last 6 months or more.


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## Paul Secic

Stuart Sweet said:


> I spoke with a TV industry contact who said that there would be relatively little impact on scripted TV airing this month, and December tends to be reruns anyway.


Big Brother is coming. YAWN!


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## Paul Secic

Lord Vader said:


> Considering that the mediators on each side absolutely despise each other, don't be surprised that this thing lasts a while. If it's not settled soon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it last 6 months or more.


Sam Ruben of KTLA said this morning the strike could last until next summer.


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## Lord Vader

Well, that takes us to mid-May, so I was right on the money, I guess.


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## sean10780

Lord Vader said:


> Well, that takes us to mid-May, so I was right on the money, I guess.


There goes watching the whole season of 24 and Lost. Damn. :nono:


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## c152driver

I'll be utilizing my Netflix subscription a lot more.

There are a lot of series that I never caught when they first aired. I just started watching Rome--and Deadwood will probably follow after that. The funny thing is, I had HBO when both of the series originally aired but somehow I never caught them.

Some days, with what I think is the declining quality of the channels (increasingly invasive pop-up ads, etc.), I'm tempted to ditch satellite entirely. Most popular shows end up on DVD eventually anyway.

I'll probably consider it more seriously when my contract is up a year from now and we finally get full power OTA HD here in the Denver market.


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## phrelin

> This strike seems especially odd. The writers seem to want money for "new media". Why?


Sorry about the length of this, but the situation is complicated.:grin:

In the book publishing world, two broad classes are defined: fiction and non-fiction. Sometimes a particular book blurs the distinction between the two, but most of the time you know whether the book in your hand is fiction.

The cinema world - the movies - is similar. There are documentaries and everything else. The everything else may include historically-based, scripted films which can sometimes blur the lines, just as a historical novel blurs the lines.

Basically, we seek out fiction books to share, to expand the narrative within our minds, and to enjoy the imagination of the novelist. We seek out fiction in movies to enjoy the vision of the writer's imagination as envisioned by the director, actors, cinematographer, special effects creators, etc. Which brings us to the medium of television....

In addition to fiction and non-fiction, television offers a category comparable to vaudeville, "entertainment consisting of a number of individual performances, acts, or mixed numbers, as by comedians, singers, dancers, acrobats, and magicians." That category could be termed "televaudeville." In the 1950's, the basics of "televaudeville" were established by the likes of Sid Caesar and Ed Sullivan, plus game shows such as "You Bet Your Life" and "Amateur Hour" and the popular daytime reality show "Queen for a Day."

These broad categories in television were just a continuation of the same categories prevalent in radio in 1940. Television essentially forced the transformation of radio, reducing it down to its current formats - recorded music, talk shows, and news, a transformation that is relevant to the changing economics of television.

The commercial success of a book or a movie is easily determined. You just total up the gross receipts paid by the end users - the readers, the audience, folks like you and me. The commercial success of a television show is different because the end user - the viewer - is only one factor among many considered by advertisers and complex media corporations. And that process of consideration has become extremely narrow because of the "digital revolution."

Most viewers are aware of the "Nielson Ratings" as a vague concept but have no idea of a recent major change. The traditional Nielson Ratings - how many watch what show - have become worthless to the primary consumer of the ratings - advertisers. Have you heard of C3? The networks and the advertisers have. The Nielson C3 ratings are the average viewership for only the commercial time within the program for live plus three days of viewing.

C3, which became available on May 31, 2007 has been called the "dominant currency" now in the television economic market. Why has this come about? What does it mean for you, me, and the television script writers? Contained within the answer to this question is the reason the Screen Writers Guild is on strike.

The "plus three days of viewing" component in the C3 is the result of the digital video recorder or DVR. You might know it as TiVo. But my household knows it as the Dish Network digital video recorder (DVR). While it is the logical successor to the old VHS video tape recorder, technologically that relationship is the same as an old cassette tape recorder is to a digital recorder that records mp3 digital files.

Once you have an mp3 audio or MPEG video digital file, you can send it over the internet via your cable tv connection, via your phone line, and even via your cell phone, and it can be heard or viewed on your computer, your cell phone, and your TV. And digital video files (with audio) are now sent via your cable tv connection, via your phone line, via your cell phone, via satellite receiver and now via over-the-airwaves to your TV receiver.

This all forced a change in the Nielson rating system. Nielson had to provide C3 data because people are recording their favorite TV shows on DVRs (they are much easier to use than a VHS tape player and they can store hours and hours of programming on a hard drive). These people play a show back at their leisure, a viewing habit called "time shifting."

Advertisers are not interested in time shifters watching their ad next week. Hence the 3-day thing. But even more critical, time shifters easily skip forward on your DVR. Most skip commercials. Hence, the need for the C3 to measure viewing of commercials.

In other words, the only thing economically important about any ad supported TV show is how many viewers watch commercials live or within 3 days after the air date. Any show that does not incline viewers to watch live and/or within 3 days is commercially disadvantaged.

Consider two wildly successful programs - "American Idol" and "Dancing with the Stars." If you have viewed these shows, one fact is obvious - much like a football game, you really need to view these shows live or nearly live. If you watch them recorded more than a day later, you are likely to have heard the results and miss all the "shared excitement, angst, anger, and joy." And even more compelling for millions of viewers, if you watch these two shows live you get to vote! And if you watch them live, advertisers believe you are bound to "view" some of the commercials. Further, these shows require a competition show on one night and a results show on another night, adding to the ad revenue for the networks.

Also consider two of CBS' reasonably successful programs - "Survivor" and "Amazing Race." Again, much like a football game, you really need to view these shows live or nearly live. If you watch them recorded more than a day later, you are likely to have heard the results and miss all the "shared excitement, angst, anger, and joy" around the water cooler.

Scripted dramas and comedy, on the other hand, can be watched when the mood strikes. Sure, you can have an occasional "Who killed JR?" cliffhanger which created some shared angst. Ordinarily though, if you hear around the watercooler that they killed off a character in a show like "Law and Order", you might feel a bit left out, but you'll watch the episode on tape and continue to "time shift" future episodes anyway.

And so, most completely-scripted programming is likely to become severely devalued to advertisers and the networks under these circumstances.

Aware of the changes and aware that not everyone has a DVR, NBC offers full episodes of over 20 programs to be watched live through an internet connection - with ads, of course. Members of our household can watch these episodes on our 42" plasma "TV" which is really just a monitor without a tuner that connects directly to our computer and audio system.

To expand upon this, after trying out a deal with Apple to feed shows to iPods, NBC joined with Fox to create a venture called Hulu.com. Jeff Zucker, CEO of NBC-Universal said regarding the move away from Apple: "We don't want to replace the dollars we were making in the analog world with pennies on the digital side."

The Hulu web site explains what it's all about:

"We hope to provide you with the web's most comprehensive selection of premium programming across all genres and formats - television shows, feature films, clips, and more...."

"Hulu offers current primetime shows like The Office, Prison Break, Bionic Woman, House and Bones, and episodes from TV classics like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Miami Vice, Arrested Development and more. We've also partnered with premier content owners like E! Entertainment, FUEL TV, SciFi Network and USA Networks to add to our growing collection of premium programming."

"Hulu is designed with a singular focus on providing an exceptional, online video viewing experience....

"Hulu lets you easily share your favorite videos via email or embed them on your own website. You can even choose to share the entire video or just one scene....

"Hulu lets you enjoy your favorite videos at websites where you are already spending your time online...AOL, Comcast, MSN, MySpace and Yahoo...."

Is this going to change television? Zucker recently noted that NBC.com had 50 million video streams in October, 50% higher than the previous record, in May. "It's become a small cable channel in our universe," he said. Of the Hulu venture he said it was a "superstore" while NBC.com was a "specialty shop." He indicated that the digital issue is the biggest nightmare in his job. "Nobody has figured out the economic model yet. And if we don't figure it out soon, those dollars will turn to pennies."

What did Zucker have to say about the writers strike? "It will be a real watershed event, [and we'll see] whether [viewers will] come back to scripted programming," he said. "An event like this will happen at everyone's peril." The issue for the writers is residuals on viewing of programming on the internet or downloaded through the internet.

Neither Zucker, nor the writers, nor any of us viewers know where scripted episodic drama and comedy programming will end up within five years. We need to think in terms of media, source of funding, format or survival.

But we'd better remember the radio-to-TV transition of the 1945-to-1955 period and thereafter. NBC, which was the top national radio network of the 1930's and 40's, survived. And in the summer of 1987, NBC Radio's network operations were sold to Westwood One, and the NBC-owned stations were sold to various buyers. (The same case occurred with the Mutual Broadcasting System and CBS Radio, which Westwood One acquired and essentially merged with NBC Radio.)

It's easy to understand the Screen Writers Guild strike in the context of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers refusal to seriously talk about residuals from new media. Consider headlines such as "With writers on strike, networks ready a dose of reality with plenty of games." You may be getting a glimpse of the future of ad-based broadcast TV. "TV" as a scripted art form may soon be delivered to your home however and by whomever.

It's 1945 all over again, except broadcast TV is now in the position of radio. Or is it?

Yes, that ad supported NBC channel you watch now may degenerate into news, sports, and televaudeville. But there is something you need to know about that digital TV station. Over-the-airwaves local TV stations are now broadcasting as many as four digital channels. A digital signal can be encrypted, meaning you could be charged for access to the signal.

We could begin to see subscription-based over-the-airwaves TV following the HBO/Showtime model. NBC-Universal may figure this out and may help their affiliate local stations by distributing scripted programming for subscription-based TV. And if the NBC/Universal thinks of it, you could start seeing the cable USA and Bravo channels on those sub-signals, attempting to capture that remaining 15% of the TV market not served by cable or satellite. The FCC will allow all this in the name of competition.

Maybe its 1945 again, and to paraphrase Zucker, everyone in the business of scripted video needs to figure out an economic model that will work, including the Screen Writers Guild and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. The Screen Actors Guild members should take note - stars receive large sums per episode likely may become a thing of the past because no one's going to find a market for a $5 million episode of a 30 minute comedy. You all need to start figuring out how to share those residuals

If you are a talented writer and have a friend that is a talented director, and you both have friends who are talented cinematographers, actors, etc., you have a fledgling production company. For a relatively modest investment in hardware and software you could start producing and delivering HD "webisodes" either for a fee or with advertising. In other words, the Indy Film industry could expand into an Indy TV industry. (And guys like Zucker with their Hulu may be smart enough to make money out of this and also help those in the Indy TV industry make some real money.)


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## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> I agree that the DVR is the common person's antidote to the writer's strike, in the short run. Hopefully it will be short.


I suppose a rant against people who make huge amounts of money even belonging to unions would not be allowed?


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## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> I'd like this thing to get settled for personal reasons .. I don't care who wins as long as the shows make their way back to production .. That way our programs can keep going.


Well put! Bravo! (No not the channel).


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## Doug Brott

phrelin,

Thanks for the analysis .. It's both good and bad, but very informative.


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## Rich

Sorry about the length of this, but the situation is complicated.:grin: 

Please, please, have mercy on us and keep it short. I tend to be long winded in my postings, but I have never seen anything like your post. That was truly impressive. But...


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## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> phrelin,
> 
> Thanks for the analysis .. It's both good and bad, but very informative.


The explanation in the NYC papers was that the writers turned down royalty rights to what are now called boxed sets of series. Happened years ago and now they want those royaltys and probably want it to be retroactive. Simplest explanation I have read.


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## phrelin

> Sorry about the length of this, but the situation is complicated.:grin:
> 
> Please, please, have mercy on us and keep it short. I tend to be long winded in my postings, but I have never seen anything like your post. That was truly impressive. But...


Will never happen again. Decided to create a blog because I have a feeling that the search for scripted programming is going to become an obession....


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## phrelin

> The explanation in the NYC papers was that the writers turned down royalty rights to what are now called boxed sets of series. Happened years ago and now they want those royaltys and probably want it to be retroactive. Simplest explanation I have read.


Actually, it is sort of right. They want better royalties on DVD's but also on downloaded video, as I understand it. The Producers probably went into a panic when someone even mentioned sharing internet revenues....


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## phrelin

> As a consumer, as in most strikes, my sympathies are with the bosses. In any strike, its everybody else vs. those on strike. It all comes out of your pocket in the end.


In the late 1940's my uncle was among the "bosses" as producer of the Fibber McGee and Molly NBC radio show. In the late 1950's he was among the many, many former radio "bosses" struggling to make a living. The writers strike is a critical event in the new transition which will affect everyone involved. I believe the average viewer will suffer less than those in the scripted TV industry. Even a short strike will accelerate the momentum for change.


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## Stewart Vernon

As a consumer I don't like product being taken away from me (writers on strike effects studios producing new programs)... but I also understand at least some of what is going on... and I know as an employee, I like being paid for my work.

It all boils down to me on what agreement they have now vs what they want. If they agreed in the past to work-for-hire and no royalties, then they can negotiate for new royalties but might have to eat that "loss" of past revenue. But I don't blame them for trying to get value from their work.

Everyone wants to be credited but no one likes to read the credits. I know how many people skip credits and walk from a theater once the movie ends... but virtually all of those same people demand proper credit in their daily jobs, so I find it strange.


----------



## Steve Mehs

I never realized people actually read the credits until it was posted here a while back. I mean I really don't care who the assistant make up coordinators fashion assistant was. I have distant relatives who are involved in the movie industry and worked on some pretty big movies (Green Mile, Independence Day), I never bothered to look for their names in the credits. Movie or show fades to black, it's over.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Steve Mehs said:


> I never realized people actually read the credits until it was posted here a while back. I mean I really don't care who the assistant make up coordinators fashion assistant was. I have distant relatives who are involved in the movie industry and worked on some pretty big movies (Green Mile, Independence Day), I never bothered to look for their names in the credits. Movie or show fades to black, it's over.


I don't always sit through the credits either... but it does bother me that many theaters turn up the lights (some even close the curtains) so you can't read them if you want.. also folks get up and are in the way.

On a related note.. I suspect that if more of us did read the credits, we might have a better insight as to which movies work and which do not. People see "Spielberg" and think "hit"... but not all of his movies are great. Maybe some of those other folks in the credit make the difference between the great ones and the duds.

I am guilty myself of not watching all the credits... but I at least try and acknowledge that the folks in the credits should get the credit they deserve.


----------



## Spazzman

rich584 said:


> The explanation in the NYC papers was that the writers turned down royalty rights to what are now called boxed sets of series. Happened years ago and now they want those royaltys and probably want it to be retroactive. Simplest explanation I have read.


Bottom Line - this will end up costing the consumer more money because they ultimately pass the expense on to us.


----------



## Rich

Spazzman said:


> Bottom Line - this will end up costing the consumer more money because they ultimately pass the expense on to us.


And life will go on.


----------



## phrelin

> I am guilty myself of not watching all the credits... but I at least try and acknowledge that the folks in the credits should get the credit they deserve.


We sit through movie credits, mostly just to see the music listing.

Relating to TV, the credits are frequently impossible to read unless you play them back in slomo.

I think most of those people would rather be paid more....


----------



## SamC

phrelin said:


> Sorry about the length of this, but the situation is complicated.:grin:


I get all of that. None of that answer the basic economic question.

Say there is a shipyard. They make two idential ships. One ship's owner takes his ship around the world for four decades. Making millions and millions of dollars hauling exotic goods from place to place around the globe. The other ships owner uses his to haul garbage Queens to Staten Island and makes a government contractor rate that is 1/1000000th of what the other makes.

How much less should the workers who made the second ship make?

The classic answer is, of course, nothing. Their labor was the same and valued the same.

So a writer is paid a fair wage for writing a TV show. The show get repackaged 50different ways and the studio makes money every time. So? What business is that of the writer, already paid a fair wage for his original work.


----------



## Ken S

Nick said:


> So, now it looks like the so-called comedians are wimping out. It was
> announced that Letterman, Leno, Conan, Stewart and Colbert will be
> spinnng up the re-reuns.
> 
> What's so hard about doing a regular stand-up routine for these so-called
> professional comics? Where's their vaunted comedic "talent" for which they
> are paid millions? Frankly, I think it would be more entertaining to see these
> guys 'wing it'.
> 
> Probably a union thing... :shrug:


They may be honoring the strike and not wanting to cross the picket line.


----------



## Ken S

SamC said:


> I get all of that. None of that answer the basic economic question.
> 
> Say there is a shipyard. They make two idential ships. One ship's owner takes his ship around the world for four decades. Making millions and millions of dollars hauling exotic goods from place to place around the globe. The other ships owner uses his to haul garbage Queens to Staten Island and makes a government contractor rate that is 1/1000000th of what the other makes.
> 
> How much less should the workers who made the second ship make?
> 
> The classic answer is, of course, nothing. Their labor was the same and valued the same.
> 
> So a writer is paid a fair wage for writing a TV show. The show get repackaged 50different ways and the studio makes money every time. So? What business is that of the writer, already paid a fair wage for his original work.


Because the writer created the work as opposed to building something from a plan. I assume you don't believe in patent or copyright rights either?


----------



## SamC

Umm, yes I belive in patents and copyrights. The copyright to a work written by an employee belongs to the employer. What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## Nick

Should a writer of fiction books be paid only for sales of the first printing? What
about subsequent printings? Should the publisher be the only one to profit from
additional printings? Should an inventor only be paid royalties on the initial
production run of his invention?

Of course not. 

The origial authors of a literary work, whether book or tv/movie script are equally
entitled to receive a fair share of profits from the sale of their work in 'new media,
even if it's not currently provided for in the writers' contracts. Up 'til now, writers'
residuals, by contract, have been limited to reruns only, but now, with the advent
of DVD and Internet publishing, as well as downloading to mobile devices, today
it's a whole 'nuther ballgame.


----------



## Ken S

SamC said:


> Umm, yes I belive in patents and copyrights. The copyright to a work written by an employee belongs to the employer. What does that have to do with anything?


Most of the writers aren't employees...they're independent contractors. That's what it has to do with it


----------



## Paul Secic

Steve Mehs said:


> But millions and millions of other people do. Nice attitude there, Capitan Sunshine.


And what's wrong with that?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

SamC said:


> So a writer is paid a fair wage for writing a TV show. The show get repackaged 50different ways and the studio makes money every time. So? What business is that of the writer, already paid a fair wage for his original work.


That is the crux of the problem... Staff writers (like say a group who work on the Letterman show) don't have rights to royalties and such for repeat episodes or continuations of their original jokes. Those writers sign agreements that anything they create is owned by the show. Letterman himself couldn't take certain "bits" with him when he moved from NBC to CBS years ago as NBC owned rights to certain things created during his time there.

Other writers sign different agreements that gain them perhaps less money up front but grant them rights to royalties later. Unfortunately many contracts are so specific that while they may have rights to TV reruns in syndication, they may not have rights to DVD sales or online downloads... so they are seeking new agreements, in many cases retroactive to previous work.

I don't like strikes... but I understand writers wanting a piece of the pie they helped to bake.


----------



## SamC

HDMe said:


> in many cases retroactive to previous work.


What an obnoxiously unreasonable position for anyone to take. You and I made a deal, on any subject, and it turns out good for me. So you want a "do over".

So my 3rd Grade teacher sees how well I am doing and hits up the county for more money? So the guys who made the 64 Mustang want some of the resale profits?

Unreal.


----------



## djlong

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that I'll be paying a lot more for a DVD if a witer is given TEN TIMES what they are currently getting - that is FOUR CENTS on a typical DVD.

I make my living writing software and you can damn well bet that I have opinions on suddenly coming up with new ways to copy and sell electronic works (which is what TV comes down to).

Normally, I'm not a union guy - can't stand most of them. But in this particular case, I'm with them. The networks are finding new ways to make money off the product and the people who produce that product should get a cut. I'm also guessing that not all studios are quite the same, despite their illegal accounting practices (like how a movie that costs $16M to make, pulls in $250M at the box office can be considered to have lost money - see "Coming to America" and the case from Art Buchwald). I mean, how come Paramount sells a season of Star Trek for close to $100 while I can get seasons of Stargate (which cost a LOT more to produce) for $40 or less?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

djlong is hitting the nail dead on here... It isn't like someone going into the past and digging up an "I helped you so now you owe me" reason.

This is about writers who helped create a TV program and not getting all the royalties normally due. If a writer, for instance, was granted and agreed to no royalties that is less of a leg to stand on... but if a writer was granted TV syndication rights... then it is reasonable once VHS and DVD came about that he also get a similar royalty on those new avenues... similarly, writers who are getting DVD revenues have every right to expect that if the network starts selling downloads online they should get a piece of that as well.

I also hate what some unions seem to stand for, and would personally prefer not to be part of a union... but in this case, union or no union, I think the writers have some leg to stand on. I just wish a strike wasn't necessary to get an agreement done since that causes us to suffer too.

But if you had a contract that said you would get royalties for sales of something you helped to create... and then the company came up with a new delivery mechanism and told you that you were only entitled to royalties for sales using the old (and not the new) mechanism... I'm sure you'd feel differently.

This same concept has resulted in damages to the studios too.. think of the DVDs recently released of old TV shows where they have had to substitute new music in place of original music because they had not secured rights to do so beyond the original agreement. In this case no strike was necessary because the owners of the music were simply able to forbid the inclusion of their music with threat of lawsuit. The writers are forced to strike since their threat otherwise seems to carry no weight.


----------



## phrelin

From http://www.quarterlife.com/ :

*quarterlife * is the new online series from Marshall Herskovitz and Edward Zwick, the creative team behind "My So-Called Life," "thirtysomething," "Legends of the Fall," and "Blood Diamond." It is the first time a true, network-quality series has been produced directly for the Internet. And it's the first time an independent project of this distinction has been owned and controlled by its creators.

*quarterlife *debuts on MyspaceTV.com on November 11, 2007, and on quarterlife.com on November 12th. Also, the series will be made available to other partners such as YouTube, Facebook, and Imeem, one week after each episode airs on MySpace. MySpaceTV will air the first 36 webisodes of quarterlife. Each webisode will be about eight minutes long, and two episodes will air every week, on Thursdays and Sundays.

The cast includes Bitsie Tulloch as "Dylan" ("Lonelygirl15," "LOST," "West Wing"), Maite Schwartz as "Lisa" ("Medium," "Dexter," "House of Grimm"), Scott Michael Foster as "Jed" ("Greek," "The Horrible Flowers"), David Walton as "Danny" ("Heist," "Cracking Up"), Michelle Lombardo as "Debra" ("Click," "Entourage," "October Road") Kevin Christy as "Andy" ("Love Don't Cost a Thing") and Barrett Swatek as "Brittany" ("Seventh Heaven," "40-Year-Old Virgin").


----------



## Steve Mehs

No thanks. On one hand I'm shocked, and on the other I'm not that TV on the internet is taking off. I have a 42" HDTV and a 55" HDTV, I'd rather not watch crappy low rez Flash video a la You Tube or whatever MySpace TV is. Amateur, low budget independent user created content will never take the place of professionally done productions IMO.


----------



## Mark Holtz

As I see things, there will be some shows that will go on hiatus by the end of November. The rest have enough episode in the can to show during February sweeps. That means that we will see repeats and specials during December and January.

Now, if the strike continues through February, then pilot season is essentially ruined. If it continues through April (about the same length as the 1988 strike), then May sweeps is ruined. And, I am not expecting a quick resolution.


----------



## phrelin

> No thanks. On one hand I'm shocked, and on the other I'm not that TV on the internet is taking off. I have a 42" HDTV and a 55" HDTV, I'd rather not watch crappy low rez Flash video a la You Tube or whatever MySpace TV is. Amateur, low budget independent user created content will never take the place of professionally done productions IMO.


Take a good look at the credits for _*quarterlife*_. These people aren't amatures, and it is being filmed for HD. _The Hollywood Reporter _reported Friday that because of the strike NBC is trying to buy the series, so we may get to see it on NBC HD.

However, watching it on MySpace TV was a drag. Tomorrow I'm going to watch the episode from quarterlife.com which has a higher resolution option - it looks like widescreen SD on my 42" plasma which only has an SVGA input for the computer (its a 4 year old Panasonic).

I'm going to have to go somewhere else to see what it does using a DVI level output.


----------



## Rich

Ken S said:


> Most of the writers aren't employees...they're independent contractors. That's what it has to do with it


That's true, but they still belong to the union. Just as actors belong to the same union and act in movies where they could be cosidered independent contractors or the ever popular "consultant".


----------



## Rich

SamC said:


> Umm, yes I belive in patents and copyrights. The copyright to a work written by an employee belongs to the employer. What does that have to do with anything?


When I teach at a college and develop a new course, the course, and accompanying literature or hardware or software becomes the property of the college. I do this as a "consultant" and sign a contract that stipulates that they own any work I produce.


----------



## Sirshagg

rich584 said:


> When I teach at a college and develop a new course, the course, and accompanying literature or hardware or software becomes the property of the college. I do this as a "consultant" and sign a contract that stipulates that they own any work I produce.


But if they turned around and started making a fortune off this content you created wouln't you be looking for a better deal on the next contract you agree to with them?


----------



## Ken S

The writers would probably agree to not getting residuals, but when they asked for that originally the studios decided they would rather pay them less and then give them a piece of future sales. So, writers now get a very small piece from DVD/VHS sales (.04/copy).

This was the system the studios wanted. I'm sure if they said...let's just negotiate a larger up front payment and no residuals based on sales they could work something out.

The movie and music industry have a long and filthy history of not paying talent.

Rich, of course you can assign your rights to another party. That would be part of the deal you negotiate with them.


----------



## Rich

HDMe said:


> I also hate what some unions seem to stand for, and would personally prefer not to be part of a union... but in this case, union or no union, I think the writers have some leg to stand on. I just wish a strike wasn't necessary to get an agreement done since that causes us to suffer too.
> 
> 
> 
> I recently asked if anyone would mind if I expressed my opinions of unions. Nobody said "no", so here goes.
> 
> If it were not for unions, many people would be working unsafely for really low wages. I was in a union for many years and was a shop steward for several of those years. I never thought the "Company" was trying to get away with something unsafe. With money, that is another thing. Labor costs are so high in this country that we lose manufacturing jobs to other countries. That is NOT the "Companys" fault. Labor costs caused that movement to happen. Ever see a TiVo or D* that proudly said, "Made in America"?
> 
> I have been on the "Company" side too. Never heard any sinister plots at contract renewing time. All the "Company" people were worried about was what job they would have to fill in the event of a strike.
> 
> The union has two tasks: Workplace safety and wages. Strongest union in the country, Major League Baseball. Acceptable workplace injuries and HIGH wages. Why do people who make so much money have to have unions? I know of several companies that do not have unions and pay their workers well and are safe places to work.
> 
> There was a time when unions were necessary and fulfilled a purpose. I don't see it now and haven't seen a need for so many unions for a long time. I think people should form associations and hire litigators to do their wage bargaining for them.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sirshagg

rich584 said:


> There was a time when unions were necessary and fulfilled a purpose. I don't see it now and haven't seen a need for so many unions for a long time.


+1


----------



## Rich

Sirshagg said:


> But if they turned around and started making a fortune off this content you created wouln't you be looking for a better deal on the next contract you agree to with them?


That happened to me. I developed a course on "Electrical Shock". We could not find a ready made course so I had to write the whole thing myself and presented it as an eight hour seminar. Won an award for it. Couldn't make the award ceremony (didn't want to go, seemed too much like work) and that aggravated my boss to the point that she had another instructor give the seminars using my material.

Was I upset? No. It was right in my contract that they could do that as soon as I presented the finished work to them. I read the contract thoroughly and signed the same contract every time I taught a course, wrote a test, or developed a course. To look for something more after the fact would have seemed dishonorable.

From what I have read in the NYC papers, the writer's biggest problem is the new forms of technology that they never realized was coming. No body's fault but their own.


----------



## Rich

Sirshagg said:


> rich584 said:
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord, Shaggy, you screwed that post up royally! I am most impressed and am chuckling merrily right now as I write this. I do love to laugh. Laugh longer, live longer.
> 
> Oh, how I hate to admit ignorance, but once again I must. What does +1 mean?
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve Mehs

The 21st century way to say 'I concur' or 'I agree'.


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> Sirshagg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord, Shaggy, you screwed that post up royally! I am most impressed and am chuckling merrily right now as I write this. I do love to laugh. Laugh longer, live longer.
> 
> Oh, how I hate to admit ignorance, but once again I must. What does +1 mean?
> 
> 
> 
> More ignorance. How do you select the part of a post that you want to reply to so that it comes out in the indented box rather than as part of the post? I should have asked this a long time ago, that delay was stupid, illustrating, in this one paragraph, the difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity".
Click to expand...


----------



## Nick

> Oh, how I hate to admit ignorance, but once again I must. What does +1 mean?


+1 means the writer acknowledges your IQ is probably _not_ in the negative. :lol:


----------



## Rich

Steve Mehs said:


> The 21st century way to say 'I concur' or 'I agree'.


Thanx, I kept thinking it meant "me too" and couldn't understand why it wasn't "me2". Clears that up nicely. Now if I can just remember that...


----------



## Rich

Nick said:


> +1 means the writer acknowledges your IQ is probably _not_ in the negative. :lol:


Disagreements? A chance to learn. Is there such a thing as a negative IQ?

I like the "I concur" better.

Glad to see someone remembered us today. I think I'll change my sig to fit the day too.


----------



## Steve Mehs

For quoting text the code is


> Copy/paste the text you want here[/quote ]
> 
> But remove the space in between the e and the closing bracket in the end tag. +1 also means me too. I agree is obviously just another way of saying that.


----------



## Nick

> Why are all manhole covers round? Please don't Google.


 Manhole covers are round because, with a "lip", it's the only shape that can't
be dropped down through the hole. The shapes of early covers were square,
triangular, rectangular and even oval, and pranksters had a field day dropping
them down through the hole, causing many picket-walking striking writers to
fall through, often with severe injuries or even death.


----------



## Rich

Nick said:


> Manhole covers are round because, with a "lip", it's the only shape that can't
> be dropped down through the hole. The shapes of early covers were square,
> triangular, rectangular and even oval, and pranksters had a field day dropping
> them down through the hole, causing many picket-walking striking writers to
> fall through, often with severe injuries or even death.


Everything you said is correct. But there is a simpler answer.

Just reread your answer and you did get the simpler answer. A larger circle can never fit into a smaller circle and each manhole rests on a smaller "lip" that is smaller than the manhole. No amount of twisting or turning will allow the manhole cover to fall into the hole.


----------



## Sirshagg

Nick said:


> +1 means the writer acknowledges your IQ is probably _not_ in the negative. :lol:


And in this case the font size meant it's a big plus 1 (I REALLY agree)


----------



## phrelin

> From what I have read in the NYC papers, the writer's biggest problem is the new forms of technology that they never realized was coming. No body's fault but their own.


That's everyone's biggest problem, as the Screen Actors Guild and the Directors Guild both have contracts that expire in June 2008, and both are focused on this issue.

And what's coming is a very big problem. The Guardian reported Sunday that Google is in discussions with Simon Fuller, the British entrepreneur behind American Idol and the Spice Girls, about a joint venture that could change the way TV is watched over the internet.

(No, I promised I won't do another long rant. I just blog it to save anyone from having to read it.)


----------



## jhollan2

rich584 said:


> There was a time when unions were necessary and fulfilled a purpose. I don't see it now and haven't seen a need for so many unions for a long time. I think people should form associations and hire litigators to do their wage bargaining for them.


I'd like to add my own +1 to this, and not just because I happen to be a litigator!

I'm absolutely disgusted at the tactics unions take these days to try and "better" their employee's lives. Remember the NYC transit strike where the workers faced criminal sanctions for the strike? How does that better lives? They were attempting to paralyze NYC to try and force the city to fold. I see the same thing here.

I'm all for people earning what they are worth, but shutting down an industry and pissing off your fan base is not the right way to do it. There are plenty of writers out there that arent tied to a union. They can negotiate for their own worth, rather than find themselves tied to a less talented writer because of industry seniority.

I hope the studios take this as an opportunity to rid themselves of this outdated labor practice and hire some good ole independant contractors. I couldnt do it, but I'm sure there are people out there that could write some killer scripts. How about an internet contest to write an episode?


----------



## Tom Robertson

How many episodes are left of your favorite show: http://community.tvguide.com/blog-e...g/Ausiello-Report/Strike-Chart-Long/800026937

(Not enough, of course.) 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## rigelian

jhollan2 said:


> I'd like to add my own +1 to this, and not just because I happen to be a litigator!
> 
> I'm absolutely disgusted at the tactics unions take these days to try and "better" their employee's lives. Remember the NYC transit strike where the workers faced criminal sanctions for the strike? How does that better lives? They were attempting to paralyze NYC to try and force the city to fold. I see the same thing here.
> 
> I'm all for people earning what they are worth, but shutting down an industry and pissing off your fan base is not the right way to do it. There are plenty of writers out there that arent tied to a union. They can negotiate for their own worth, rather than find themselves tied to a less talented writer because of industry seniority.
> 
> I hope the studios take this as an opportunity to rid themselves of this outdated labor practice and hire some good ole independant contractors. I couldnt do it, but I'm sure there are people out there that could write some killer scripts. How about an internet contest to write an episode?


Let's see, you don't have a problem with the studios forming a collective association to negotiate with the writers but you do find a problem if labor does the same thing? As far as pissing off the fan base, why not just have the studios cave to the writers demands? That way the fan base isn't pissed off and everyone is happy, except maybe the studios.

By the way, it's not criminal for writers to strike and if the studios wanted to, they could conceiveably impose a lockout if it were to their economic advantage. For my part, I don't throw in on either side, not the side of the studios or the writers. I just hope that they can quickly resolve the issue, in any event it's going to cost both sides a lot of money, much more than it will cost me not to watch tv when I want to. Besides, there is a lot of content out there already that I haven't seen, in the form of DVDs etc., that I can watch in the meantime.


----------



## sean10780

I wonder how much money the studios will start too lose if the strike goes on for a while. I assume millions or even billions.


----------



## phrelin

Regarding script-based programming, Murdoch yesterday suggested his business model: "The essential thing is we make them very, very high quality so that they can be sold around the world and find an audience, and then be brought back to America--or to anywhere in the world, for that matter --and be sold as DVDs."

Again, to avoid a long rant here, I've blogged more info on this.


----------



## Rich

I sat in meetings on both sides and the union side was easily the most ruthless and cared less about the customers. All the Company side cared about was NOT having a strike at the most reasonable price and what jobs we would have to fill if the union struck. No matter what, the customers have to be satisfied or the company fails. And the strikers are up fecal creek without oars or toilet paper.

Realize this: Most unions are controlled by very few people. A union meeting needs a certain percentage of it's membership (a quorum) to hold a meeting and vote on issues that impact thousands. And the people who control the union are usually in positions where they are layoff proof.

With litigators on both sides of an "association" or whatever you want to call it, you would have people with comparable educations. Not true when a union board is negotiating against people with degrees and special training in negotiation and labor laws.

I have always been of the opinion that people who work for businesses that provide crucial services should be unable to strike. Nurses, doctors, firemen, police officers, land line telephone providers, the list goes on, baseball players, football players, etc., subway workers in any city, water suppliers, electric suppliers (the National Grid must stay hot), soldiers, sailors, etc., teachers at any level.

You work in a mine, you should have a strong union. Chemical plants should be run by union workers, just about every manufacturing facility should be unionized. But script writers? What next, priests?



jhollan2 said:


> I'd like to add my own +1 to this, and not just because I happen to be a litigator!
> 
> I'm absolutely disgusted at the tactics unions take these days to try and "better" their employee's lives. Remember the NYC transit strike where the workers faced criminal sanctions for the strike? How does that better lives? They were attempting to paralyze NYC to try and force the city to fold. I see the same thing here.
> 
> I'm all for people earning what they are worth, but shutting down an industry and pissing off your fan base is not the right way to do it. There are plenty of writers out there that arent tied to a union. They can negotiate for their own worth, rather than find themselves tied to a less talented writer because of industry seniority.
> 
> I hope the studios take this as an opportunity to rid themselves of this outdated labor practice and hire some good ole independant contractors. I couldnt do it, but I'm sure there are people out there that could write some killer scripts. How about an internet contest to write an episode?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

rich584 said:


> I have always been of the opinion that people who work for businesses that provide crucial services should be unable to strike. Nurses, doctors, firemen, police officers, land line telephone providers, the list goes on, baseball players, football players, etc., subway workers in any city, water suppliers, electric suppliers (the National Grid must stay hot), soldiers, sailors, etc., teachers at any level.


Just out of curiosity... how do you equate baseball/football players and doctors/police on the same level of "crucial services"?

I can agree on most of your list... but entertainers, which athletes most certainly are, do not in any way fall under "crucial" in my way of thinking.

As example... baseball lost most of a season not too long ago, so did the NBA. NHL lost an entire season... and the world most certainly did not end. If police or doctors went on strike, we would have lots of problems.


----------



## Rich

HDMe said:


> Just out of curiosity... how do you equate baseball/football players and doctors/police on the same level of "crucial services"?
> 
> I can agree on most of your list... but entertainers, which athletes most certainly are, do not in any way fall under "crucial" in my way of thinking.
> 
> As example... baseball lost most of a season not too long ago, so did the NBA. NHL lost an entire season... and the world most certainly did not end. If police or doctors went on strike, we would have lots of problems.


I was going to use the '94 MLB strike as an example. That was the year I quit working, June 30, 1994. I looked forward to the baseball season so much and they took it away from me. Fortunately I watched the O.J. trial and that kind of softened the blow.

OK, now to answer your question about what I think of as "crucial". My post was my opinion, if you choose to disagree, that is your right. I don't see any point in arguing with you about this, it's opinions that we both have a right to express. By the way, I agree with you.

My enjoyment is "crucial" to me. My opinion of the MLB pay scale is that it is ridiculous, but their union is so strong. But what happened in '94 should not be allowed. And if I don't get to see "24" this season, I am going to consider that a "crucial" loss.

My point is that if litigators were used to represent bargaining units on both sides these kind of really annoying strikes couldn't happen.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Opinion is opinion, you're right about that. I just wouldn't have put entertainers and law enforcement in the same realm of importance to society.

I do understand missing entertainment.. It has a value when the economy is poor or when there is a war on... to help cheer up folks that might otherwise be having a tough time. So I don't completely devalue entertainment as being important in our lives. I just have it on a different scale.


----------



## jhollan2

rigelian said:


> By the way, it's not criminal for writers to strike and if the studios wanted to, they could conceiveably impose a lockout if it were to their economic advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Its not criminal for the writers to strike, it _was_ criminal for the NYC transit workers. My point is that the unions do not always represent the best interest of all of their members. In some cases, their actions are nothing short of extortion and can harm their members in the long run.
> 
> We live in a free market society. Each individual can negotiate based on their own worth with the help of an agent/attorney whatever. I have no love for individuals who would rather shut down an industry to prove a point than continue working during negotiations. We're not talking about people working in unsafe conditions or unreasonable hours. The whole concept of a strike for a contract is repugnant to me.
> 
> Given the talent pool in this country I would rather see all striking individuals see their contracts not renewed and new talent brought in than validate this behavior.
Click to expand...


----------



## rigelian

Yes, we live in a free market economy. In labor relations we have laws that allow both the employer and employee to voluntarily form organizations to collectively bargain. By the way the employer is not entitled to anyone's labor after the contract has expired. 

By the way I have a feeling that bringing scab writers would result in something that looked a lot like scab footall..creative talent isnt exactly fungible.


----------



## Nick

*CBS News writers to vote on strike; no contract since April 2005*


> About 500 unionized news writers could soon join their creative colleagues on the
> picket line.
> 
> The writers, employees of CBS News television and radio, are expected to over-
> whelmingly approve a strike authorization. Represented by Writers Guild of America
> East, the writers were scheduled to vote Thursday.
> 
> WGA drama and comedy writers are entering the second week of an entertainment
> industry strike that has shaken network and cable television, threatening popular
> shows such as Fox's "24" and sending late-night talk shows, such as Comedy
> Central's "Daily Show with Jon Stewart," into unplanned reruns.
> 
> The CBS News television and radio writers have been working under an expired
> contract since April 2005, WGA East spokeswoman Sherry Goldman said.
> 
> More @ http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jPaYyn80_X2yMcH0kXfSFjcmm-PQD8SSDUU80


If the CBS News writers do vote to go out on strike, does this mean that CBS will air reruns
of old news broadcasts?


----------



## rigelian

Nah they'll just force their talking heads to write their own copy. To think about it, that might be incredibly entertaining.


----------



## phrelin

> We live in a free market society. Each individual can negotiate based on their own worth with the help of an agent/attorney whatever.


I don't live in the same society you do. Neither do script writers. In the broadcast TV biz, networks are owned by conglomerates and are using stations licensed by the FCC. There are no licenses available for the script writer. And his worth is zero without someone holding a camera and the guy holding the camera also needs the writer and the TV station with the license, which means dealing with the conglomerate. Oh, and the conglomerates own most of the cable channels and even some of the major cable systems.

As I noted in a post above, Rupert Murdoch and other key players in the business are telling us that scripted tv won't make it on broadcast television except through DVD sales and internet ad sales. The writers want a meaningful piece of that which seems fair, since their income from these sources would be based on the marketability of their (and the camera guy's) product.


----------



## dodge boy

I fully support unions! Without them the regressives (CONSERVATIVES) would take this country and our standard of living back to the 1800's.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Nick said:


> *CBS News writers to vote on strike; no contract since April 2005*If the CBS News writers do vote to go out on strike, does this mean that CBS will air reruns
> of old news broadcasts?


I was actually wondering if the news writers were going to join the strike. If the reality show segment producers, who are IMO in essence writers do the same, that would add a huge impact to the strike.


----------



## Ryanm86

dodge boy said:


> I fully support unions! Without them the regressives (CONSERVATIVES) would take this country and our standard of living back to the 1800's.


:backtotop

Save your political views.


----------



## Indiana627

dodge boy said:


> I fully support unions! Without them the regressives (CONSERVATIVES) would take this country and our standard of living back to the 1800's.


Unions are good to a certain point. They, just like management, can get too greedy which is why you see so many US jobs being outsourced to cheaper labor. Maybe had unions not been so greedy in the past, companies could afford to keep those jobs in the US.


----------



## Herdfan

rich584 said:


> If it were not for unions, many people would be working unsafely for really low wages.


To see a good example of this take the time to watch the movie _Matewan_. It won an Oscar and stars James Earl Jones and Chris Cooper. It really shows why unions were needed.



> The union has two tasks: Workplace safety and wages.


Don't forget work rules. And safety has largely been taken over by the federal government via OSHA.



> I know of several companies that do not have unions and pay their workers well and are safe places to work


Yet, according to the unions, these places are the root of all evil. The could pay twice scale, have extremely liberal benefits and the unions would still hate them.



> There was a time when unions were necessary and fulfilled a purpose. I don't see it now and haven't seen a need for so many unions for a long time. I think people should form associations and hire litigators to do their wage bargaining for them.


I agree, however the new force of union is to be active politcally in ways completely unrelated to providing benefits to workers, but instead benefit the unions leadership. And any worker who asks, as they can legally do, to have any portion of dues related to political activity they disagree with returned are often intimidated.

I was a union member in college: a teamster as I worked on a loading dock. The money and hours were so good I didn't really mind it. But I did get tired of all the propaganda I would get in the mail. Don't buy this product or that product because it is made with non-union labor. I remember getting saying not to drink Coors beer because it was cold-filtered and not safe. There was a page full of the dangers of not using heat to ensure safety. It wasn't very long that Miller came out with their own "cold-filtered" product. Somehow it was safe when Miller did it.


----------



## Rich

> Don't forget work rules. And safety has largely been taken over by the federal government via OSHA.


The safety precautions mandated by OSHA are what companies use to produce their safety procedures. Before OSHA there were no set rules concerning safety except what the companies wrote or the unions demanded. With the advent of OSHA, unions became even less essential. Anyone who employs 7 or more employees falls under OSHA's aegis.

Work rules seem to be the same in union and non-union companies. International Flavors and Fragrances is a good example of a non-union company (or was 10 years ago) where the employees seem extremely satisfied.

All it takes to activate an OSHA investigation is a phone call by an employee.


----------



## Rich

Indiana627 said:


> Unions are good to a certain point. They, just like management, can get too greedy which is why you see so many US jobs being outsourced to cheaper labor. Maybe had unions not been so greedy in the past, companies could afford to keep those jobs in the US.


How do you get the poster's name in the box? And the link to the quote?


----------



## Stuart Sweet

(mod hat on)

Let's tread carefully here, ladies and gents. So far this has been a great discussion but we do have rules against political stuff and so far I've bent them a little.

(mod hat off)


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I think a good point was mentioned several posts back that got ignored...

Once the contract is up, neither side has an obligation to the other. The company and the employer have to re-negotiate. So a "strike" is nothing more than not going to work until your employer offers you what you want.

If I go to work, in a non-union environment, then I only do so for as long as I agree to my employer's conditions AND am happy with how they pay and treat me. I can be fired for non-performance and I can quit if I want more money. There is no obligation for me to continue working for a wage I do not agree.

So... whether we as consumers like it or not... the contract is about to be up, and the writers want to renegotiate. It is perfectly within their prerogative to not work for as long as they can afford it, otherwise continuing to work without a contract in place entitles them to even less than their previous agreement.

In a perfect world, employees AND employers would all be fair to each other. We just don't live in that world.


----------



## Rich

rigellian said:


> By the way I have a feeling that bringing scab writers would result in something that looked a lot like scab footall..creative talent isnt exactly fungible.


First time I have seen the word "fungible" in any post, and you used it correctly. You are to be commended.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> (mod hat on)
> 
> Let's tread carefully here, ladies and gents. So far this has been a great discussion but we do have rules against political stuff and so far I've bent them a little.
> 
> (mod hat off)


Thanx for letting it go on so long.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

rich584 said:


> First time I have seen the word "fungible" in any post, and you used it correctly. You are to be commended.


In fact it may be the first time fungible has been used anywhere online


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> In fact it may be the first time fungible has been used anywhere online


It's certainly not a part of my vocabulary.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Overall, I'm not a fan of unions. However, in this case, it is necessary, and only because the entertainment industry is all too ready to consume it's own in the search for big media profits. The writers, too often, get the short shrift. They deserve respect.


----------



## phrelin

From the LA Times:



> Hollywood's film and TV writers and its major studios have agreed to return to the bargaining table, offering the first glimmer of hope that a deal to end a costly two-week strike could be within reach.
> 
> The Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers said late Friday that they would resume talks Nov. 26 on a new contract for 10,500 writers to replace the one that expired Oct. 31. The two sides announced the plan in identical statements, a rare show of unity.


See full story:  http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wga17nov17,1,7438841.story?coll=la-headlines-business


----------



## Lord Vader

Let's hope this thing soon comes to an end. As I've said before, if it lasts a few weeks, it's gonna last a _*very *_ long time.


----------



## phrelin

Lord Vader said:


> Let's hope this thing soon comes to an end. As I've said before, if it lasts a few weeks, it's gonna last a _*very *_ long time.


I agree.

The music industry has a model - when radio plays a song, everyone gets a check. It's up to the radio station to generate the revenue to cover costs. That's the way it should work for commercial web sites and video streams. And when a CD or MP3 track is sold, everyone gets a piece. That's the way it should work for DVD's and video downloads.

What's the big deal?


----------



## Herdfan

phrelin said:


> That's the way it should work for commercial web sites and video streams. And when a CD or MP3 track is sold, everyone gets a piece. That's the way it should work for DVD's and video downloads.
> 
> What's the big deal?


Part of the big deal is the size of the piece.

Second, DVD sales are easy, but how do you create a revenue model around shows viewed online with no payment? Would they get a certain fee based on number of views and let the network/website worry about how to create the revenue?


----------



## Rich

Stu, I'm having a real hard time not replying to the thread's direction. I have strong opinions on unions that I would love to express. Please...


----------



## phrelin

Herdfan said:


> Part of the big deal is the size of the piece.
> 
> Second, DVD sales are easy, but how do you create a revenue model around shows viewed online with no payment? Would they get a certain fee based on number of views and let the network/website worry about how to create the revenue?


Sure, the production folks have to fight over sharing the pie with not only the writers, but with the actors and directors in June. And maybe the writers, actors and directors are going to have to deal with ideas like wages being advances to be deducted first before getting any additional money. It's not easy.

And yes, just like a locally owned radio station (there used to be a few) has to figure out how to create its revenue stream, the web sites and networks will have to worry about that - radio has always been on a pay-per-play relationship with the record companies.


----------



## lwilli201

Stuart Sweet said:


> I applaud people for trying to make better lives for themselves, that's all. I'd say that's what the writers are doing, whether or not they are doing it in a way that makes sense to a non-writer.


The real problem is that many that can not afford to be not working, are not working. Production personnel, electritians, camera operators, grips, and many people are now out of work, and whatever agreement is made with the writers will have no effect on these people. I read an article that SNL and 30 Rock casts are doing live theatre performances to collect money for their production crews that are out of work.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

lwilli201 said:


> The real problem is that many that can not afford to be not working, are not working. Production personnel, electritians, camera operators, grips, and many people are now out of work, and whatever agreement is made with the writers will have no effect on these people.


That's the reason I don't like strikes. Too much ancillary damage. Even when I support the reason for the problems in contract negotiations, I don't like the complete strike scenario because so many attached people that are not directly part of either side of negotiations can be left in the cold.


----------



## Bertrude

Maybe the out-of-work crew members can get jobs on Who Wants To Marry A Surviving Bachelor On Big Brother Island?


----------



## Nick

Obviously, the children in *Kid Nation* are the illegitimate offspring of illicit sexual
liaisons between *Desperate Housewives* and *Two and a Half Men* from past *Survivor*
shows, and were delivered by the *Journeyman* doctors from *Scrubs* and *ER*. Look
for the *Hollywood Exposé* on a future episode of *60 Minutes: To Catch an Adulterer*

*Back to You*.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Bertrude said:


> Maybe the out-of-work crew members can get jobs on Who Wants To Marry A Surviving Bachelor On Big Brother Island?


:lol: Sad this is, if the strike lasts long enough this is what's probably going to happen. And I thought so called 'reality TV' was dead.


----------



## Rich

The gentleman who questioned my calling baseball players and football players "crucial" did not take into consideration the millions of dollars that pro sports generates in the NYC Metro market. Just in the area surrounding Yankee Stadium in 1994 businesses went out of business, street sellers lost their revenues, the people who work in the stadium hawking beer, soda, cotton candy, etc. were effectively put out of work and a lot of these people could not collect unemployment benefits. And that's just in an area less than a square mile.

All because ballplayers wanted more money. Not all of them. But the union decided to strike and don't say the ballplayers voted for the strike so it must be their fault. Very rarely are strike votes anything but unanimous for the strike. Been thru this a lot and I never voted for a strike and yet each time the vote was "unanimous". I worked in a chemical factory and could see the reasoning behind having a union, but for ballplayers to strike is bordering on the ridiculous.

A quick rant:I don't think anybody who is in a non-manufacturing job and is making well above the national average for salary should have the right to strike unless that strike impacts nobody but the strikers. For God's sake, do you think Derek Jeter and A-Rod really need to go on strike? Or a ballplayer making the minimum wage which is several hundred thousand dollars a year?



lwilli201 said:


> The real problem is that many that can not afford to be not working, are not working. Production personnel, electritians, camera operators, grips, and many people are now out of work, and whatever agreement is made with the writers will have no effect on these people. I read an article that SNL and 30 Rock casts are doing live theatre performances to collect money for their production crews that are out of work.


----------



## Rich

Bertrude said:


> Maybe the out-of-work crew members can get jobs on Who Wants To Marry A Surviving Bachelor On Big Brother Island?


Maybe the out of work crew members who can't find work (and nobody wants to hire a person who is on strike, been there, done that, ended up driving a taxi) will end up not being able to pay their rent, feed their kids, put gas in their cars, etc. This does not just affect the writers.

Does anyone know how much a writer makes on average a year?


----------



## Lord Vader

One casualty of the strike: FOX has pulled _24 _ from their mid-season updated schedule and will not air any episodes unless the strike is settled, even though 7 of the episodes have thus far been completed.


----------



## Drew2k

Lord Vader said:


> One casualty of the strike: FOX has pulled _24 _ from their mid-season updated schedule and will not air any episodes unless the strike is settled, even though 7 of the episodes have thus far been completed.


Yeah, Entertainment Weekly is running a poll on it: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20160074,00.html

*Because of the writers strike, Fox has decided to postpone 24 until it can run the whole season **uninterrupted. Was that a good move?*
Yes, I want to see all _24_ hours in a row.
No, I'd wait through the hiatus. I miss this show!
Who cares? After last season, I'm not coming back.


----------



## shoelessjoe

I do not like strikes either but they are necessary. If there were no strikes, the workers would have less leverage and they would have to take what the owners offered regardless of how fair it was. Without the capability or threat of strikes, the owners would have no incentive to play fair. I remember a teacher strike years ago. One issue was that the teachers were told they had to work extra hours for no pay (because they were salaried). The teachers tried to negotiate a fair end for months with the school board. When the school board didn't make an attempt to come to an agreement with the teachers, the teachers voted to strike. Although the strike was a public relations disaster for them, they were able to negotiate an agreement after two weeks of striking. 

The reason the writers are striking IMHO is because the other side is not being fair. Strikes should be the last resort. But they are definitely necessary.


----------



## rigelian

rich584 said:


> First time I have seen the word "fungible" in any post, and you used it correctly. You are to be commended.


Yeah, but I misspelled football.... I'm so ashamed!!!!


----------



## phrelin

From http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/41...compensate-writers-a-model-for-ending-strike/



> Over the coming three months, ABC.com will be streaming mini-webisodes of the hit show Lost that add more details to the plot and help fill in backstory. As the NYT reports, these episodes, dubbed "Lost: Missing Pieces", were developed under a special agreement between the studio and the WGA that addresses many of the complaints the writers have over web-based compensation. Under the agreement, writers were paid $800 for each piece they worked on, plus residuals of 1.2-2 percent of licensing fees. The deal allows studios to let the webisodes play for 13 weeks on Verizon's (NYSE: VZ) network and for extended play over the internet, which is how residuals will be generated.
> 
> While there's some hope that the agreement will prove a template for a larger agreement, skeptics note that this was one-off deal made by one studio player, with a specific clause noting that the contract would not set a precedent. That's probably the key takeaway here: the studios will pay writers for digital content, but they'd rather do it via flexible, one-off agreements, as opposed to a blanket contract. Of course, this would negate the whole concept of a writer's union, so you can see the hold up.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

rich584 said:


> The gentleman who questioned my calling baseball players and football players "crucial" did not take into consideration the millions of dollars that pro sports generates in the NYC Metro market.
> 
> (...)


Boy I see your point. I really do. There's a cost to everyone and yet the benefit is not shared by everyone.

For example, when they marched down Hollywood Boulevard the other day it killed traffic everywhere. I'll never get that time back no matter how much they pay the writers.


----------



## Rich

I don't know how teachers are classified. I do know that in industry there are two types of salaried people, non-exempt and exempt. A non-exempt person is subject to normal work rules, overtime, seniority, etc. An exempt employee is not subject to those work rules and can be forced to work 24 hours a day or be on call 24 hours a day, etc.

Why would someone become an exempt employee? Better, much better pay, better retirement packages, power (this is not a little benefit) etc. I was exempt and my pay and position were governed by ratings. For the most part, the benefits of being exempt far outweigh the dangers of being exempt. I have seen exempt employees driven out of their jobs by vindictive people with higher positions.

Back to teachers. I think they should be working full time all year round. Schools should be open all year long. The rules governing tenure should be rewritten. We don't need kids to get the crops in anymore and air conditioning solves the heat problem in the summer. Any other reasons why teaching school is not an all year long job? They get the whole summer off! And they need a union?



shoelessjoe said:


> I do not like strikes either but they are necessary. If there were no strikes, the workers would have less leverage and they would have to take what the owners offered regardless of how fair it was. Without the capability or threat of strikes, the owners would have no incentive to play fair. I remember a teacher strike years ago. One issue was that the teachers were told they had to work extra hours for no pay (because they were salaried). The teachers tried to negotiate a fair end for months with the school board. When the school board didn't make an attempt to come to an agreement with the teachers, the teachers voted to strike. Although the strike was a public relations disaster for them, they were able to negotiate an agreement after two weeks of striking.
> 
> The reason the writers are striking IMHO is because the other side is not being fair. Strikes should be the last resort. But they are definitely necessary.


----------



## Rich

rigelian said:


> Yeah, but I misspelled football.... I'm so ashamed!!!!


I was going to comment on that, but did not want to destroy the compliment. If you have the Google toolbar (an absolute necessity for me) it will do your spellchecking on any site or document for you. Not perfectly, it did recognize "irregardless" as a word and (here it comes) regardless of what you think or Google is willing to accept, "irregardless" is not a word!


----------



## Rich

Just think of the vendors in the Stadium. They never get that money back and they are mostly retired or guys who only have that job.

The stagehand's strike in NYC is killing restaurants, tourism will fall off, cab drivers (been one) will be deeply affected. Services in the City (I know city is not often capitalized when used by itself, but it is New York City and like Stadium above merits a capitalization) will be cut, the crime rate will rise and so on.

And I don't see how the writer's strike will benefit LA either.

I find it strange that in the most Puritanical country in the world, greed can be allowed to adversely affect whole cities and cause collateral damage to many people.



Stuart Sweet said:


> Boy I see your point. I really do. There's a cost to everyone and yet the benefit is not shared by everyone.
> 
> For example, when they marched down Hollywood Boulevard the other day it killed traffic everywhere. I'll never get that time back no matter how much they pay the writers.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> Boy I see your point. I really do. There's a cost to everyone and yet the benefit is not shared by everyone.
> 
> For example, when they marched down Hollywood Boulevard the other day it killed traffic everywhere. I'll never get that time back no matter how much they pay the writers.


So it even affects the environment. Think of all those idling cars.


----------



## drded

phrelin said:


> The music industry has a model - when radio plays a song, everyone gets a check.


 This is not true. Under current royalty laws when radio plays a song only the licensing agency (i.e. ASCAP, BMI or SESAC) gets a fee and they each have different ways of disbursing those collected fees to the Publishers and Writers. There is no way when radio plays a song that the label, artist, producer, or musicians get a cut. Only the licensing agency as mentioned above gets the fee. More information on how they actually disburse the funds can be found at BMI.com or ASCAP.com.

Dave


----------



## Rich

drded said:


> This is not true. Under current royalty laws when radio plays a song only the licensing agency (i.e. ASCAP, BMI or SESAC) gets a fee and they each have different ways of disbursing those collected fees to the Publishers and Writers. There is no way when radio plays a song that the label, artist, producer, or musicians get a cut. Only the licensing agency as mentioned above gets the fee. More information on how they actually disburse the funds can be found at BMI.com or ASCAP.com.
> 
> Dave


So, what exactly are they striking for? I know what it says in the papers, but each story seems a little different or outrageously wrong.


----------



## phrelin

> Fifty three percent of 300 media, advertising and entertainment executives believe writers should continue to "hold out for everything they want," with 47 percent voting for them to "pick up their pencils and get back to work."


See: http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/media-business-report/11754231.html


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> See: http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/media-business-report/11754231.html


Interesting site, thanx for the link.

Reading thru it, and everybody who is interested in this thread should read it, you find out that the whole thing boils down to money for content displayed that nobody can figure out how to dole out.

Another bureaucratic clusterfornication.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

It looks like they're headed back to the table today. That's good, because a lot of people are losing a lot of money on both sides. Believe it or not, entertainment is California's largest "export crop" and our economy here is not in the best shape anyway. The rumored impact to the state is supposed to be about $21,000,000.00 (yes I put all those zeros in on purpose) PER DAY.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> It looks like they're headed back to the table today. That's good, because a lot of people are losing a lot of money on both sides. Believe it or not, entertainment is California's largest "export crop" and our economy here is not in the best shape anyway. The rumored impact to the state is supposed to be about $21,000,000.00 (yes I put all those zeros in on purpose) PER DAY.


Strikes hurt everbody and the losses take forever to recoup. They couldn't have done this with two teams of litigators?

Anybody who thinks everybody should be unionized should spend a couple days in NYC during a garbage strike. I just don't see why people who have critical jobs (collecting garbage in a large city is critical) should be allowed to strike.


----------



## Tom Robertson

When Labour strikes, Management should do the other jobs to see what life in the (garbage) trenches is like. Too often they forget unless they take the position that Pizza Hut does. All management must work in a "Red Roof" one weekend each year to remember the customer experience.

As for critical jobs (not the NFL or other sports, BTW), perhaps the strikers should be allowed to strike 50% but not allowed to strike 100% of the workforce. Otherwise known as a work slowdown. Again, forcing Management to work in the trenches until a solution is found.

Happy Holidays,
Tom


----------



## Rich

Realistically, Tom, nothing is going to change rapidly. And we, in some small way will be adversely affected by each nonsensical strike. This issue has been evolving slowly since when, the mid 1850s perhaps? Sadly, it doesn't matter what we think. Clear logic pales before the lust for more money.

I like the way you used "Labour". Well done.

Hopefully, the strike will be settled soon, 24 will go on as planned and we can put this thread to rest. I get nightmares if I think about unions too much.



Tom Robertson said:


> When Labour strikes, Management should do the other jobs to see what life in the (garbage) trenches is like. Too often they forget unless they take the position that Pizza Hut does. All management must work in a "Red Roof" one weekend each year to remember the customer experience.
> 
> As for critical jobs (not the NFL or other sports, BTW), perhaps the strikers should be allowed to strike 50% but not allowed to strike 100% of the workforce. Otherwise known as a work slowdown. Again, forcing Management to work in the trenches until a solution is found.
> 
> Happy Holidays,
> Tom


----------



## phrelin

drded said:


> This is not true. Under current royalty laws when radio plays a song only the licensing agency (i.e. ASCAP, BMI or SESAC) gets a fee and they each have different ways of disbursing those collected fees to the Publishers and Writers. There is no way when radio plays a song that the label, artist, producer, or musicians get a cut. Only the licensing agency as mentioned above gets the fee. More information on how they actually disburse the funds can be found at BMI.com or ASCAP.com.
> 
> Dave


I only meant there is a system that might serve as a model, not literally everyone gets a check from the radio station.


----------



## phrelin

From Nikki Finke's Deadline Hollywood Daily blog



> As the WGA strike begins its 4th week, I've been told positive news about today's resumption of contract talks between the writers and the producers. So positive, in fact, that I'm almost fearful to post it. But here goes: a very reliable source tells me that there appears to be a deal seemingly in place between both sides.
> 
> "It's already done, basically," the insider describes. That's because of the weeks worth of groundwork by the Hollywood agents working the writers guild leadership on one side, and the studio and network moguls on the other. I was told not to expect an agreement this week. But my source thought it was possible that the strike could be settled before Christmas.
> 
> Look, I don't want to raise false hope here. But this source has been very accurate in the past. The negotiations starting today will have a news blackout, so don't expect any significant leaks. But consider the real possibility there's been a breakthrough. Still, I must caution that this is Hollywood -- where defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory nearly every time.


----------



## Drew2k

Sadly, this good news (if true) may sound the death knell for fence-straddling shows like *Chuck* and *Journeyman* ...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

For every silver lining, there is a cloud.


----------



## LameLefty

Drew2k said:


> Sadly, this good news (if true) may sound the death knell for fence-straddling shows like *Chuck* and *Journeyman* ...


What's the reasoning there?


----------



## Herdfan

LameLefty said:


> What's the reasoning there?


I'll take a stab at it. In my case, I have been saving Chuck on the DVR, but reruns work just as well, and plan on watching it when my current shows dry up. But if the strike is settled, then I probably won't get around to watching it - ever.

So some of these shows on the bubble might have gotten some new eyeballs in reruns if the strike continued. Just my take on the reasoning.


----------



## Supramom2000

Drew2k said:


> Sadly, this good news (if true) may sound the death knell for fence-straddling shows like *Chuck* and *Journeyman* ...


I read in another thread that Chuck was given their "Back 9" episodes. It will complete 1 full season. Now if only Journeyman would get picked up. There is a link in another thread to sign a petition to save Journeyman.


----------



## Doug Brott

I like Journeyman better than I like Chuck .. but I do watch both. Hopefully they will both stick around, but life will go on ..


----------



## LameLefty

Herdfan said:


> I'll take a stab at it. In my case, I have been saving Chuck on the DVR, but reruns work just as well, and plan on watching it when my current shows dry up. But if the strike is settled, then I probably won't get around to watching it - ever.
> 
> So some of these shows on the bubble might have gotten some new eyeballs in reruns if the strike continued. Just my take on the reasoning.


Ah, I get it. Makes sense. I already watch Journeyman, so I'm really hoping it makes it. Bionic Woman is rather underwhelming, which is disappointing. I expected better, frankly.


----------



## Drew2k

LameLefty said:


> What's the reasoning there?


If the strike does continue past December, the thought is that it would impact pilot season, meaning networks would have limited new series to put on the air in the fall. That would mean the networks would be more likely to give second season orders to their freshman series, despite those series having smaller audiences...

If the strike ends, however, pilot season could proceed as "normal" and networks would be looking to replace poor performers, such as "Chuck" and "Journeyman" ...


----------



## Sixto

Interesting. Same gang here in the TV Forum!

"Journeyman" fan here as well. Also, was losing interest in "Chuck" but last few weeks have been good. "Life" is good as well. All on NBC which is different.


----------



## SamC

Who ever writes the articles on Wikipedia about current TV shows has detailed information on when each show will run out of new episodes and the networks broadcast plans after that. 

My guess is that within the next few weeks, the networks will have to make serious decisions. My guesses:

- More sports, reality shows, game shows, and such will be rushed to production.

- Several shows that were going to resolve themselves will simply not do so, such as Scrubs.

- You may see some imports from Canada, Australia, the UK and so on if this goes deep enough.

- The networks will eventually hit the "reset" button and write off the year. My guess is that will happen when it becomes clear that new episodes will not be available for February "sweeps". They are not going to run new episodes in, say, June or July, just to finish an order. In that case the Fall 08 schedule will more or less be the Fall 07 schedule.

It is certainly good news as a consumer to see disagreement among the strikers. As in all strikes, management is just another word for "everybody else besides the strikers".


----------



## TheRatPatrol

SamC said:


> - More sports, *reality shows*, game shows, and such will be rushed to production.


I know CBS will be starting a new Big Brother in January.


----------



## Sirshagg

Doug Brott said:


> I like Journeyman better than I like Chuck .. but I do watch both. Hopefully they will both stick around, but life will go on ..


Life got picked up? I started watching but now have about 5 episodes recorded but not watched.


----------



## Sirshagg

Drew2k said:


> If the strike does continue past December, the thought is that it would impact pilot season, meaning networks would have limited new series to put on the air in the fall. That would mean the networks would be more likely to give second season orders to their freshman series, despite those series having smaller audiences...
> 
> If the strike ends, however, pilot season could proceed as "normal" and networks would be looking to replace poor performers, such as "Chuck" and "Journeyman" ...


Not sure i understand... If the strike goes one who is writing the second seasons of these shows?


----------



## Stuart Sweet

No one... maybe they'll turn into reality shows! I personally would like to see the reality version of Bionic Woman.


----------



## Doug Brott

Sirshagg said:


> Life got picked up?  I started watching but now have about 5 episodes recorded but not watched.


:lol: :lol: :lol: .. I don't know about the show _Life_ .. :lol: :lol: :lol: .. I was more referring to life in general


----------



## Doug Brott

Stuart Sweet said:


> No one... maybe they'll turn into reality shows! I personally would like to see the reality version of Bionic Woman.


That could get interesting .. NBC could just move some Mythbusters over from Discovery and cover a few bases.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> No one... maybe they'll turn into reality shows! I personally would like to see the reality version of Bionic Woman.


Spare us more so-called reality shows! They're not even "reality" anyway. Who the hell does 99% of what those idiotic participants do anyway?

When I rule the world, the first thing to go is reality shows.

Followed by Cubs fans.


----------



## Doug Brott

As I recall, Lord Vader was felled .. perhaps it was due to reality show cancellation backlash .

yes, reality is a term that really means unscripted. Many times the participants are out of work actors .. many times not. I do enjoy some reality shows .. it means I don't have to go to the mall to people watch .


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Lord Vader said:


> Spare us more so-called reality shows! They're not even "reality" anyway. Who the hell does 99% of what those idiotic participants do anyway?
> 
> When I rule the world, the first thing to go is reality shows.
> 
> Followed by Cubs fans.


You obviously missed my sarcasm, Darth. 

Certainly there's a lot of content that NBC could move over from other Universal channels, I just hope it doesn't come to that.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> You obviously missed my sarcasm, Darth.


*I don't think so.*


----------



## Supramom2000

Sixto said:


> Interesting. Same gang here in the TV Forum!
> 
> "Journeyman" fan here as well. Also, was losing interest in "Chuck" but last few weeks have been good. "Life" is good as well. All on NBC which is different.


I highly recommend everyone find the link to save Journeyman and sign it! I never understand why it seems the shows that the networks say are struggling, are the ones that everyone is talking about. Check out Friday Night Lights as well.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Sirshagg said:


> Not sure i understand... If the strike goes one who is writing the second seasons of these shows?


I think the concept here is... that pilots need time for writing & development, and if the strike prevents new pilots for next season from being delivered timely... then the networks may favor renewing current shows over new shows next season.

Of course the strike has to end for any new shows... but once the strike ends it will be easier to write for a 2nd season of an existing show that already has been approved with a budget than to try and get a bunch of new pilots from concept to preview stage in the short amount of time once the strike ends.


----------



## Rich

Sirshagg said:


> Life got picked up? I started watching but now have about 5 episodes recorded but not watched.


New York Daily News reported that Life will be picked up for the entire season today.


----------



## Drew2k

Sirshagg said:


> Not sure i understand... If the strike goes one who is writing the second seasons of these shows?





HDMe said:


> I think the concept here is... that pilots need time for writing & development, and if the strike prevents new pilots for next season from being delivered timely... then the networks may favor renewing current shows over new shows next season.
> 
> Of course the strike has to end for any new shows... but once the strike ends it will be easier to write for a 2nd season of an existing show that already has been approved with a budget than to try and get a bunch of new pilots from concept to preview stage in the short amount of time once the strike ends.


Thank you - you've summed it up perfectly.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

It would be an interesting byproduct of this strike if some marginal shows got renewed this year when they wouldn't otherwise... and if some of those shows had increased popularity in their second season. The silver lining on this strike cloud *could* then be networks taking a closer look before they pull the plug on shows too early.


----------



## MichaelP

I've read discussion in this thread about how some people agree with why the writers are striking and some don't. I came across the following quote from Ron Moore (Producer/Writer/Director) of Battlestar Galactica that might give folks a real world illustration of the writers situation:



> "I had a situation last year on Battlestar Galactica where we were asked by Universal to do webisodes [Note: Moore is referring to The Resistance webisodes which ran before Season 3 premiered], which at that point were very new and 'Oooh, webisodes! What does that mean?' It was all very new stuff. And it was very eye opening, because the studio's position was 'Oh, we're not going to pay anybody to do this. You have to do this, because you work on the show. And we're not going to pay you to write it. We're not going to pay the director, and we're not going to pay the actors.' At which point we said 'No thanks, we won't do it.'"
> 
> "We got in this long, protracted thing and eventually they agreed to pay everybody involved. But then, as we got deeper into it, they said 'But we're not going to put any credits on it. You're not going to be credited for this work. And we can use it later, in any fashion that we want.' At which point I said 'Well, then we're done and I'm not going to deliver the webisodes to you.' And they came and they took them out of the editing room anyway - which they have every right to do. They own the material - But it was that experience that really showed me that that's what this is all about. If there's not an agreement with the studios about the internet, that specifically says 'This is covered material, you have to pay us a formula - whatever that formula turns out to be - for use of the material and how it's all done,' the studios will simply rape and pillage."


As you can see, this quote illustrates that the studio (NBC Universal) did not want to compensate or credit anyone involved in the BSG webisodes that preceded season 3; not just the writers but the actors as well.

The strike is not necessarily about getting more for what they have already done. It is about being fairly compensated for all their work. Which isn't happening now.


----------



## sean10780

Update on the strike:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_en_tv/hollywood_labor;_ylt=AhTjFw1cf66pL2KJYNFqitlxFb8C

This hopefully will be the end of it. The writers are taking till Tuesday to make a decision.


----------



## LameLefty

Well continued talking is always good, and the parties aren't really that far apart at this point. But the tone of the article isn't as positive as I'd hoped it would be.


----------



## sean10780

I agree too, I'm just hoping that they will agree soon. I'm still mad at this whole thing and missing out of 24.


----------



## phrelin

From an article in the Financial Times at http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/49e3d7a8-9e1c-11dc-9f68-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1


> The four US television networks in a pay dispute with Hollywood television writers over online video advertising are in line to generate $120m of revenues in 2007 from free web streaming of their content, according to a leading media buyer.
> 
> The networks have been reluctant to acknowledge the size of their streaming businesses, partly because online video advertising has become a sticking point in pay negotiations with the writers, who have been on strike for almost a month.
> 
> However, advertisers are flocking to web streaming. "Based on what we're paying for spots across the four networks, we estimate this market to be worth more than $120m," said Tracey Scheppach, senior vice-president and video innovation director for Starcom, a leading media buying agency.


Something to fight over, I guess.


----------



## Indiana627

The WGA is "confident" that a deal is close.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2007/12/the-wga-is-conf.html


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well I'm confident that I'll get handed a check for a billion dollars this afternoon but that doesn't mean it's gonna happen.


----------



## Carl Spock

Damn, I guess I'll just have to give that check to somebody else.

It seems to me there is a lot of negotiating still to be done.


----------



## phrelin

From _The Hollywood Reporter_:


> On the development front, the setback in the negotiations between the two sides brings the networks' closer to the possibility of scrapping this pilot season, something the nets will be forced to do if the writers work stoppage stretches well into February.
> 
> The most circulated scenario in that case includes the networks renewing all their existing series for next fall, producing their pilots in the summer and launching their new crop of shows in midseason.


Those who are worrying about a new show with low ratings may find some comfort in this rumor.


----------



## bicker1

Yup. Word is that every show that did passably good (i.e., would have gotten a back-nine order) would be renewed, if contracts permitted it, while they'd run a pilot season over the summer for mid-season replacements come January (2009). 

However, I think folks should still be concerned if their favorite hasn't received a back-nine order (i.e., Journeyman).


----------



## Stuart Sweet

The one thing that is abundantly clear is that after this amount of time we haven't even begun to see the impact of this strike, and we may yet be feeling it this time next year.


----------



## phrelin

While admittedly Journeyman has been uneven, this would be a good time to pick it up and change some writers.


----------



## Radio Enginerd

Now that a few of my shows have nothing in the can, the reality of the writers strike is starting to set in. Perhaps it's old news, but I was also saddened to hear that 24 will not be airing this year due to the writers strike.


----------



## phrelin

Stuart Sweet said:


> The one thing that is abundantly clear is that after this amount of time we haven't even begun to see the impact of this strike, and we may yet be feeling it this time next year.


What has yet to be considered is the June 2008 expiration of contracts with the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) and the Directors Guild of America (DGA). In _my opinion_, the AMPTP never had any intention of settling with the Writers and is not bargaining in good faith. SAG and DGA are expecting to have to strike to get the piece of the action they want. So, in essence, they are slowly being "locked out" before their contract is up in an effort to weaken their resolve.

From _List of Pre-Strike Films Getting Made_:


> Studios and Production Companies set their pre-strike priorities
> By Edward Havens
> September 13th, 2007
> 
> You may or may not have heard that there is a distinct possibility that the Writers Guild, the Directors Guild AND the Screen Actors Guild will all be striking next spring, if negotiations with the Producers Guild do not get settled between now and then. With the chance that they might go months without any new productions, everyone in Hollywood is making sure their pet projects are getting set up before the hurricane hits.


See also: _DGA Appoints Negotiating Committee Chairs (February 08, 2007)_


----------



## Doug Brott

Well, if it drags on long enough, I'll have to go back to watching my old favorites on TV Land .. There's enough compelling "other" content to lead me away from the big guys anyway .. I've NOT seen many of the big blockbuster movies over the past few years .. I could probably hold out to next year if needed, but what a sad state of affairs we'll be in if that's the case.


----------



## RobertE

Could the studios leaglly pull some old scripts of, say, CHiPs off the shelf, recast, refilm and push it out the door?


----------



## Tom Robertson

Sure can. They did that in '88 with _Mission Impossible_ and other series.


----------



## phrelin

RobertE said:


> Could the studios leaglly pull some old scripts of, say, CHiPs off the shelf, recast, refilm and push it out the door?


Only if they have actors and directors, and if they can settle with them before June, they can settle with writers.


----------



## Herdfan

Doug Brott said:


> Well, if it drags on long enough, I'll have to go back to watching my old favorites on TV Land ..


Oh I wish it were that simple. This strike could cost me a fortune because the wife will start watching home improvement shows and get some new ideas.:eek2:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Could be worse, she could get hooked on QVC.


----------



## phrelin

Apparently advertisers and writers are meeting directly. See: http://blogs.mediapost.com/tv_board/?p=225


----------



## dreadlk

I hear they are farming the scripts out to India. Bollywood writers will be handling several shows starting next season.


----------



## dreadlk

In todays economy it always amazes me how the people that build something eg. a chair or a couch will get about 1% of the gross figure yet some guy who sits in a office and pushes a few buttons gets 30%. Something is just wrong with how the world works today, people who do the real work get nothing and people who sit at desks and go to meetings get everything. And for all those who think im wrong ask yourself, if the world was divided into two and the real labour went to one half and the office execs went to the other side which one would survive and which side would eat itself alive.



Indiana627 said:


> Unions are good to a certain point. They, just like management, can get too greedy which is why you see so many US jobs being outsourced to cheaper labor. Maybe had unions not been so greedy in the past, companies could afford to keep those jobs in the US.


----------



## bicker1

Nice going there, belittling knowledge workers and extolling the virtues of a class war all in one message. Good job! 

(Incidentally, writers are knowledge workers too... they sit at desks, and go to meetings. The people who actually build a television show are the craft workers and the actors.)


----------



## Lord Vader

Didn't I say when this strike first started that it'd be a long one? Indeed. Never doubt the words of a Sith Lord. I had foreseen this from the beginning.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Lord Vader said:


> Didn't I say when this strike first started that it'd be a long one? Indeed. Never doubt the words of a Sith Lord. I had foreseen this from the beginning.


In post #39, you said that if it weren't settled in a week, it could be a *very* long one (bolding yours.)

And given that the last strike went 22 weeks, IIRC, I never doubted you.

That said, we can always hope for a settlement anyday now.

Happy Holidays!
Tom


----------



## Rich

I've been on both sides and I can tell you without a doubt that the higher up in the corporate food chain you go, the less work you do. And *that *work is less valuable. Obviously most corporations are top heavy and way too much money is doled out to the executives.

I agree with you on the unfair distribution of funds to execs and craftsmen. And the benefit packages are better for the execs too. But, in an industrial environment, the really good craftsmen are few and far between. So if you raised the pay for craftsmen, you would be rewarding the inept. And I would be surprised if the percentage of good craftsmen vs poor craftsmen wasn't about the same as good writers and poor writers. Look at how many shows use the same character actor over and over. Why, because they are the best actors? What else could it be?

I've been avoiding this thread, but your post sparked my interest. Unfortunately, logic rarely prevails in real life.

We should sponsor a trip to Holland. We could tilt at windmills all day long.

Rich



dreadlk said:


> In todays economy it always amazes me how the people that build something eg. a chair or a couch will get about 1% of the gross figure yet some guy who sits in a office and pushes a few buttons gets 30%. Something is just wrong with how the world works today, people who do the real work get nothing and people who sit at desks and go to meetings get everything. And for all those who think im wrong ask yourself, if the world was divided into two and the real labour went to one half and the office execs went to the other side which one would survive and which side would eat itself alive.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Didn't I say when this strike first started that it'd be a long one? Indeed. Never doubt the words of a Sith Lord. I had foreseen this from the beginning.


Gettin' a little loony there, Oh Mighty Lord? :icon_kiff Oh, look! I just found a marijuana smiley! And on this rather Puritanical forum. "Not that's there anything wrong with that."

Rich


----------



## phrelin

From the Hollywood Reporter


> The writers for CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman" may be the first to return to work through a deal Letterman's independent production company Worldwide Pants is negotiating with the WGA.
> 
> The pact would allow the late-night show to come back on the air with its entire staff, including scribes, intact.
> 
> The news was first reported Saturday by The New York Times.


The Times also reported that John Stewart was urging an interim agreement for the Daily Show, but wasn't in the same position as Letterman's independent production company World Wide Pants. Most of the production companies are owned by the seven conglomerates who appear to be refusing to negotiate.


----------



## Lord Vader

rich584 said:


> Gettin' a little loony there, Oh Mighty Lord? :icon_kiff Oh, look! I just found a marijuana smiley! And on this rather Puritanical forum. "Not that's there anything wrong with that."
> 
> Rich


Loony? *Hardly. Simply prescient.*


----------



## bicker1

rich584 said:


> We should sponsor a trip to Holland. We could tilt at windmills all day long.


:lol:


----------



## Ken S

rich584 said:


> I've been on both sides and I can tell you without a doubt that the higher up in the corporate food chain you go, the less work you do. And *that *work is less valuable. Obviously most corporations are top heavy and way too much money is doled out to the executives.
> 
> I agree with you on the unfair distribution of funds to execs and craftsmen. And the benefit packages are better for the execs too. But, in an industrial environment, the really good craftsmen are few and far between. So if you raised the pay for craftsmen, you would be rewarding the inept. And I would be surprised if the percentage of good craftsmen vs poor craftsmen wasn't about the same as good writers and poor writers. Look at how many shows use the same character actor over and over. Why, because they are the best actors? What else could it be?
> 
> I've been avoiding this thread, but your post sparked my interest. Unfortunately, logic rarely prevails in real life.
> 
> We should sponsor a trip to Holland. We could tilt at windmills all day long.
> 
> Rich


Gross generalizations like this are just foolish. There are plenty of people in every profession and every level that work hard and long hours. There are also plenty of others doing nothing more than wasting time waiting for it to get to 4:45 so they can start getting ready to go home.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Loony? *Hardly. Simply prescient.*


What a great reply! Kudos, your Lordship! And thanx for the chuckle. I was afraid I offended you.

How about that smilie, huh? Never expected to see something like that on this forum.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

*Just be thankful I'm very understanding and forgiving.*


----------



## Rich

Ken S said:


> Gross generalizations like this are just foolish. There are plenty of people in every profession and every level that work hard and long hours. There are also plenty of others doing nothing more than wasting time waiting for it to get to 4:45 so they can start getting ready to go home.


I do try not to argue with you. I do find it offensive when somebody twists my words.

I was relating my experience and based on that experience not many people actually do work a full day. In industry today, if you have mechanics working for you and they have tools in hand for 3 hours a day, you are considered an exceptional supervisor. We could have cut our maintenance force in half had we demanded that they put in a full day's work. Every so often we hired an outside firm to come in and audit our work force and the results were always the same: 3 hours a day with tools in hand and that was because the mechanics knew they were being audited. As soon as the auditors left, down went production.

I know I didn't work an 8 hour day, I just put out more work than the people who stretched their jobs out so they looked busy. The people I worked for on both sides of the fence appreciated the production and left me alone. When I stopped working for the chemical company, I usually had somewhere between 100 to 200 people that I was responsible for. And I managed to go to a nearby pool nearly every day and swim for an hour and a half and then go back to my office and eat lunch. And when I quit, I was replaced by two people who couldn't cope with the job.

This is not a "gross exaggeration", just a statement of facts. Of course, you can find examples to contradict me on an individual basis.

For annoying me, you shall be excluded from our trip to Holland to tilt at windmills.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> *Just be thankful I'm very understanding and forgiving.*


The link made me laugh heartily! Thanx so much! You are welcome to join us on our trip to Holland to tilt at windmills. Fred is working on the logistics of the trip as we speak.

Rich


----------



## Mark Holtz

The way I'm seeing things now, I would be very surprised if this strike doesn't last at least 22 weeks. The AMPTP is using the same "take it or leave it" tactics that they used in 1988, and are insisting that the WGA take the six issues off the table before negotiating again. Gee, isn't that the same hardball tactics that is portrayed as the Scrooge-like corporations in the entertainment that is being broadcast? Hmmmm.....


----------



## phrelin

Restaurant owners and tv content providers have something in common - users will decide after very few tastings whether your employees are doing their jobs. If they don't come to your tables to dine, your doors will close rapidly. TV writers are not in jobs comparable to maintenance and operations positions at Boeing. The writers "flavor the food." A production company doesn't keep writers around who don't keep customers coming. Then again, as I think about it, it may be that NBC-Universal has tried to apply the GE aircraft engine production model which would explain alot.


----------



## lwilli201

rich584 said:


> The link made me laugh heartily! Thanx so much! You are welcome to join us on our trip to Holland to tilt at windmills. Fred is working on the logistics of the trip as we speak.
> 
> Rich


Do you have to ware all that armor that Don Quijote de la Mancha wore. :sure:


----------



## Lord Vader

*Yes.*


----------



## Drew2k

This is all that's stuck in my head ... Thanks a lot guys! 

*don quixote
what do you say?
are we proud? are we brave?
or just crazy?
don quixote
what do you say?
are we shooting at windmills like you?

here i am
don quixote
we're all men of la mancha
*
I actually like Nik Kershaw, so it's not a bother, really ...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Here's a question for anyone who might know...

what prevents the studios from soliciting scripts from non-union writers? I'm sure there are many people who just want a shot. Sure, there are some directors, actors, etc. on the lines in solidarity, but others are not. Is there some sort of "can't bust the union" clause in the contract?


----------



## Tom Robertson

I suspect that many of the actors can and would refuse to allow scab writers in this situation. I'm sure that under normal conditions, new writers can (slowly) break into the guild, but we know this isn't normal.


----------



## Sirshagg

Just curious here...

The networks generally sell ad time way in advance. With no new shows do the advertisers still pay the big $$$ even though their ads are running for repeats? If so it would seem that the the strike is a windfall for the networks - drastically cut costs but keep the same revenue stream.


----------



## Tom Robertson

There are several checks and balances in the ad revenue model. If a show fails to reach its demographic goals, the advertisers typically get a freebie placement for their ad (a make good), or refunds. 

Also, the ads are not placed years in advance, but typically only a few months with constant adjustments.

Happy Holidays!
Tom


----------



## James Long

Sirshagg said:


> Just curious here...
> 
> The networks generally sell ad time way in advance. With no new shows do the advertisers still pay the big $$$ even though their ads are running for repeats?


Repeats? What are those?

The shows I watch have had same week repeats (which I have ignored on Saturday nights) or have vanished (and probably would have anyways - Cavemen for example). Smallville did a couple weeks of repeats and then a new show but it appears that we're seeing new content rather than reruns.

If there is a ratings guarantee on the ads the networks might lose money ... but the strike hits everyone. Unless people just turn off TV they are going to be watching something. Even if the shows were utter crap, the networks are still showing the ads to a captive audience. There seem to be plenty of mid-season replacements coming in January/February. Pre-written for your enjoyment!


----------



## phrelin

From http://blogs.mediapost.com/research_brief/?p=1595:


> OTX (Online Testing eXchange) announced results from a survey among the TV viewers about the WGA (Writers Guild of America) strike, showing that while 51% of TV viewers are disappointed that some of their favorite shows will go or have gone into repeats, _*44% say they will continue to watch their favorite shows even in repeats*_.


I like my favorite shows, but not _*that*_ much.


----------



## Rich

lwilli201 said:


> Do you have to ware all that armor that Don Quijote de la Mancha wore. :sure:


Of course. Suppose the windmill fights back?

Rich


----------



## phrelin

From a _Los Angeles Times article_ today:


> Dozens of striking film and TV writers are negotiating with venture capitalists to set up companies that would bypass the Hollywood studio system and reach consumers with video entertainment on the Web.
> 
> At least seven groups, composed of members of the striking Writers Guild of America, are planning to form Internet-based businesses that, if successful, could create an alternative economic model to the one at the heart of the walkout, now in its seventh week.
> 
> Three of the groups are working on ventures that would function much like United Artists, the production company created 80 years ago by Charlie Chaplin and other top stars who wanted to break free from the studios.


Maybe some of these satellite boxes we have that are connected to the web could provide content from these sites - for a fee, of course.


----------



## Rich

Tom Robertson said:


> I suspect that many of the actors can and would refuse to allow scab writers in this situation. I'm sure that under normal conditions, new writers can (slowly) break into the guild, but we know this isn't normal.


Nor is it honorable (or, more importantly, safe). That said, I have crossed many union lines and was a participant in several. Businesses gotta be really in "urinary distress" to even think of going thru the headaches of hiring scab workers.

I suffered thru a 101 day strike in '71 and it took me years to catch up. Nobody really wins in situations like this and we suffer collateral damage. If you are a miner, a union is a wonderful thing. But a scriptwriter? Think about that. How does the union improve the on the job safety of a scriptwriter? Bust that union. Ronnie did it. You tell me how those air traffic controllers could walk off the job? Ronnie solved that problem pretty quickly. But if that model were to be used, can you imagine how bad the shows would be?

My God, they are SCRIPTWRITERS! How does the union perform their basic function of improving the safety and health and welfare of the SCRIPTWRITERS?

I promised myself I would stay off this thread. Very upsetting.

Rich


----------



## Earl Bonovich

According to the radio today (and marketwatch)

NBC has stated that both the Tonight Show and the Late Show...
Are going to start airing NEW episodes in early January, without writers

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={7CEB6398-D3F2-4B15-996D-57F9C23D95C2}

Both of them citing that they want to get their 100/80 (respectively) non-writer employees working again.


----------



## Lord Vader

Yeah, heard that on the radio on the way home today. Seems there are some 100 nonunion staffers on Jay's show that he says will be fired if the strike continues, so he wants to get back to work to keep them on board. Kind of a similar situation with Conan.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

More so "laid-off" then fired.... it's not like they want to get rid of them, because of cost cutting or bad performance.

But they can't keep paying them (even if they are) indefinently... if they are not working.

Kinda like what happens to a company if their distribution channel has issues... (actually now that I think about it... that is EXACTLY what it is)


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## phrelin

With Letterman negotiating an interim contract with the WGA, the NBC late night shows have no real choice. Letterman's World Wide Pants production company is independent of the Big-7 conglomerates and produces both the Late Show with David Letterman and the Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. CBS wouldn't have to settle with anyone for their late night lineup to have writers, while NBC-Universal would have to settle with the WGA for Leno or O'Brien to have any writing staff.


----------



## James Long

Earl Bonovich said:


> NBC has stated that both the Tonight Show and the Late Show...
> Are going to start airing NEW episodes in early January, without writers


Carson Daly is in his third week back ... returning to keep the non-writer employees paid. I don't believe the quality of the show has suffered too bad.

I hope we see more interviews and performances on Jay and Conan. There were nights when Carson would skip the monologue anyways (or run the text on the screen at high speed for DVR/Tivo users).

Would the writer's strike prevent Jay from writing a joke? Or would he be limited to saying something ONLY if it wasn't written?


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## Sirshagg

James Long said:


> Would the writer's strike prevent Jay from writing a joke? Or would he be limited to saying something ONLY if it wasn't written?


I can't imagine that my favorite bit requires writers - Headlines. He could do this every day and I'd be happy.


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## Lord Vader

Earl Bonovich said:


> More so "laid-off" then fired.... it's not like they want to get rid of them, because of cost cutting or bad performance.


That's what I kind of figured, but it was an ABC News reporter who said that NBC officials indicated 100 nonunion staff members were going to be fired by the end of the month.


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## bicker1

A more viable approach for the networks is to simply purchase programming from other countries. Canadian television, for example, has a few series that have never been broadcast here and are arguably good enough to be broadcast here, and the accents would be only marginally noticeable (as compared to the alternatives).


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## phrelin

bicker1 said:


> A more viable approach for the networks is to simply purchase programming from other countries. Canadian television, for example, has a few series that have never been broadcast here and are arguably good enough to be broadcast here, and the accents would be only marginally noticeable (as compared to the alternatives).


Since alot of stuff is already shot in Montreal or Vancouver, I'm not sure I'd even notice.:lol:

Actually, in the early days of my C-band years we got to watch alot of CBC shows. It was even fun to watch the Olympics on CBC. While there was pride taken in the success of their own, it was really a far more balanced and educational presentation where one could learn alot about competitors from alot of countries.


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## machavez00

Report: Studios cancel writers contracts
Tue Jan 15, 4:45 AM PST

Four major studios have canceled dozens of writers' contracts in a possible concession that the current television season cannot be saved, the Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday.
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/article/urn:newsml:tv.ap.org:20080115:hollywood_labor


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## Herdfan

The bottom line here is the studios have enough money to wait this out just like they did last time. The longer it goes, the more people will turn on the writers especially those who are no longer working because of them.


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## Stuart Sweet

At this point I think the better question is, with reality show season coming up, who'll notice. (I will)


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## phrelin

Herdfan said:


> The bottom line here is the studios have enough money to wait this out just like they did last time. The longer it goes, the more people will turn on the writers especially those who are no longer working because of them.


That's what the conglomerates hope. Three things:

1. The conglomerates are using the writers strike to simultaneously "lock out", and thereby soften the resolve of, the directors and the actors whose guilds have contracts that expire in June.

2. The ad-based, conglomerate-owned broadcast networks discovered that the DVR totally alters the landscape; so they are cleaning house in order to create schedules full of reality, game and sports shows which encourage live viewing in recognition that live is best because you can't skip ads, but even if its recorded its basically worthless unless watched within the new 3-day Nielson.

3. The conglomerates understand that in less than a decade scripted drama and comedy can become cash cows in a mix with HBO-type subscription channels, internet-based HD streaming on a PPV or ad supported basis, and some combination of DVD's and purchased downloads.

Comcast, for instance, is already creating a web site that can stream shows from HULU, the Fox and NBC-Universal owned HD streaming operation currently in beta.

In the decade between 1948-1958, home entertainment radically shifted from radio to tv. There were losers and winners in that change. There will be losers and winners in the next five years (things happen faster now). Those who adapt survive. We just have to figure who....


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## Doug Brott

phrelin,

You may be right, but boy, that will make finding some shows even harder I think .. It will be interesting. DIRECTV, Cable and DISH Network will have to adjust to meet the need.


----------



## phrelin

Doug Brott said:


> phrelin,
> 
> You may be right, but boy, that will make finding some shows even harder I think .. It will be interesting. DIRECTV, Cable and DISH Network will have to adjust to meet the need.


That's what I'm hoping. Buried in the announcement of the Echostar off-the-air DVR at CES2008 (TR-50 if my memory is right) is the mention of their intent to provide internet streaming of "premium video." I'm only hoping that they will include, probably for a fee, a web portal to their own video web page like the one Comcast set up which is itself a portal to the HULU offerings. Check it out at http://www.fancast.com/home


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## haggis444

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point I think the better question is, with reality show season coming up, who'll notice. (I will)


 I will too. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person on earth that doesn't like reality TV. Glad to know I am not alone. :grin:


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## phrelin

haggis444 said:


> I will too. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person on earth that doesn't like reality TV. Glad to know I am not alone. :grin:


I am scouring the Earth to find scripted shows to watch. Reality tv and game shows are not a "fix" for we scripted drama and comedy addicts.:eek2:


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## Lord Vader

haggis444 said:


> I will too. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person on earth that doesn't like reality TV. Glad to know I am not alone. :grin:


You're not alone! I hate, *HATE*, HATE "reallity" shows! And just how can they be called "reality" shows when they're staged for the viewer's amusement? And just who the hell does those things in real life anyway?!?

If every frickin' "reality" show bit the dust I would die happy.

"Reality" my @ss!!!


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## Paul Secic

haggis444 said:


> I will too. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person on earth that doesn't like reality TV. Glad to know I am not alone. :grin:


I also don't like reality shows.


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## Stuart Sweet

Lord Vader said:


> You're not alone! I hate, *HATE*, HATE "reallity" shows! And just how can they be called "reality" shows when they're staged for the viewer's amusement? And just who the hell does those things in real life anyway?!?
> 
> If every frickin' "reality" show bit the dust I would die happy.
> 
> "Reality" my @ss!!!


Why would I want reality TV? I don't like reality!


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## Lord Vader

That's because nothing unreal exists.


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## MichaelP

haggis444 said:


> I will too. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person on earth that doesn't like reality TV. Glad to know I am not alone. :grin:


I'll add my voice -- you are not alone in your dislike for "reality" TV shows.

I really don't understand the fascination with watching other people be humiliated.

Regards,
Michael


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## Stuart Sweet

Lord Vader said:


> That's because nothing unreal exists.


I believe you're quoting Star Trek, not Star Wars. How unlike you!


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## Lord Vader

You're the first one who has ever known from where that quote came.


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## Stuart Sweet

Lord Vader said:


> You're the first one who has ever known from where that quote came.


It's from Star Trek IV, when Spock was testing his memory at the beginning. He's asked what such and such law of metaphysics is.

But back to topic... If the writers and producers don't get their acts in gear, no real programming will exist.


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## Lord Vader

Indeed it is.


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## phrelin

It's not hard to understand why the writers are paranoid in the context of the history of getting screwed in their last contract on DVD residuals because at the time no one knew what the potential was.

From _The Hollywood Reporter _:


> *Disney delays Stage 9*
> *Guild concerns may be a factor*
> By Andrew Wallenstein
> 
> Jan 17, 2008
> 
> Disney's ABC has indefinitely postponed the debut of a unit charged with launching original online series.
> 
> The unit, known as Stage 9, planned to distribute its first offering in February with one of four shortform episodic programs scheduled to roll out this year. A Disney spokeswoman declined comment.
> 
> Disney isn't saying why Stage 9 is being put on the back burner, but sources indicate the parent company does not want to risk inflaming the guilds with a venture intended to grab digital revenue -- a sore point in strike negotiations. However, Stage 9 has been in operation since February, months before the strike began.
> 
> ...


Edit: (Tom Robertson) For reasons of copyright protection, I have reduced the quoted material to just the opening paragraphs. Follow the link above to see the rest of the story.


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> It's not hard to understand why the writers are paranoid in the context of the history of getting screwed in their last contract on DVD residuals because at the time no one knew what the potential was.


Can you save me the trouble of searching this monstrous thread and tell me if anyone has posted the average yearly salary of these writers? I know you've been a constant contributor on this thread and I would be most appreciative.

Thanx
Rich


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## Lord Vader

How prescient the Dark Side is, for I predicted when this strike began that it would be a long one, and it is.


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## Stuart Sweet

rich584 said:


> Can you save me the trouble of searching this monstrous thread and tell me if anyone has posted the average yearly salary of these writers? I know you've been a constant contributor on this thread and I would be most appreciative.
> 
> Thanx
> Rich


I thought someone said that the average working writer makes $250,000. I am not sure.


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## phrelin

Stuart Sweet said:


> I thought someone said that the average working writer makes $250,000. I am not sure.


Yeah and the average football player makes $120 million.

The WGA website says that 46% of writers didn't work last year and that the average writer's salary over a five-year period of employment and unemployment is $62,000. The AMPTA is careful to discuss these numbers only in terms of "working writers."


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## phrelin

For the past five years "Nashville Star" has been running on USA (seasons 1-4 premiered in March, season 5 in January). NBC-Universal has decided to move it to NBC for a summer run. Big surprise. About 3 million people watched last season's finale, a record for the show.


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## phrelin

Because of the length of this thread, I've started a new one on the Directors Guild Agreement.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116408


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## bicker1

phrelin said:


> The WGA website says that 46% of writers didn't work last year and that the average writer's salary over a five-year period of employment and unemployment is $62,000.


So when they DON'T work they make more than most people in this country make when they ARE working?

Outrageous!

When people aren't working, they shouldn't be paid anything, so any amount they're getting paid is too much.



phrelin said:


> The AMPTA is careful to discuss these numbers only in terms of "working writers."


When my boss discusses salary numbers, he also only includes numbers in terms of working workers.


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## phrelin

bicker1 said:


> So when they DON'T work they make more than most people in this country make when they ARE working?
> 
> Outrageous!
> 
> When people aren't working, they shouldn't be paid anything, so any amount they're getting paid is too much.
> 
> When my boss discusses salary numbers, he also only includes numbers in terms of working workers.


Actually, many insurance brokers make money on sold policies even if they aren't currently selling and other types of folks get some type of commissions of stuff they've done in the past.

The fact is the writers don't earn anything new if they don't work just like everyone else.

But having been a "boss" I like your boss's approach.


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## Ken S

bicker1 said:


> So when they DON'T work they make more than most people in this country make when they ARE working?
> 
> Outrageous!
> 
> When people aren't working, they shouldn't be paid anything, so any amount they're getting paid is too much.
> 
> When my boss discusses salary numbers, he also only includes numbers in terms of working workers.


You must be outraged at every author, musician, songwriter, producer, director, and actor too that gets paid residuals for shows they did in the past. How dare they be paid for their work!


----------



## bicker1

phrelin said:


> Actually, many insurance brokers make money on sold policies even if they aren't currently selling and other types of folks get some type of commissions of stuff they've done in the past.


So let un-working writers sell insurance.


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## bicker1

Ken S said:


> You must be outraged at every author, musician, songwriter, producer, director, and actor too that gets paid residuals for shows they did in the past. How dare they be paid for their work!


What are you talking about? Read what I wrote again.


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## Tom Robertson

We don't need to go any further in slamming each other's opinions about how the writers are compensated. The industry has set a standard for residual payments, they will continue to evolve.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Drew2k

phrelin said:


> The WGA website says that 46% of writers didn't work last year and that the average writer's salary over a five-year period of employment and unemployment is $62,000.





bicker1 said:


> So when they DON'T work they make more than most people in this country make when they ARE working?
> 
> Outrageous!
> 
> When people aren't working, they shouldn't be paid anything, so any amount they're getting paid is too much.
> 
> When my boss discusses salary numbers, he also only includes numbers in terms of working workers.


The way I read the WGA numbers:

1) 46% of all writers didn't work last year (translation: unemployed)
and 
2) When factoring in the periods of unemployment, annually the average salary for writers is $62,000.

To me, that doesn't say that writers made $62,000 while not working...

Usig the average annual salary of $62,000 - that's $310,000 total earned over 5 years. Assume a writer was employed 4 out of the 5 years: $310,000 / 4 =$77,500 average salary for the 4 working years, with $0 earned from salary the year the writer was unemployed.


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## Stuart Sweet

Still sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## Drew2k

Stuart Sweet said:


> Still sounds pretty good to me.


Yup, I don't disagree. I'm just saying that I don't see that writers are paid $62,000 when they are not working.


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## mightythor88

$62k a year in LA is nothing. So while $62k is good money in a lot of places in LA its barely getting by when a decent SFR is $750k.


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## Drew2k

mightythor88 said:


> $62k a year in LA is nothing. So while $62k is good money in a lot of places in LA its barely getting by when a decent SFR is $750k.


SFR?


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## mightythor88

SFR = single family residence, sorry I frequent a housing bubble blog too...:lol: .


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## Lord Vader

Tell me about it! When I went to the Rose Bowl, I met a fellow Illinois alum who was living in Orange County. He said he just sold his 1300 square feet, 2BR condo for $1.5 _*million*_.

Yikes!


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## Drew2k

mightythor88 said:


> SFR = single family residence, sorry I frequent a housing bubble blog too...:lol: .


Thanks - I probably should have figured that out!


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## phrelin

mightythor88 said:


> $62k a year in LA is nothing. So while $62k is good money in a lot of places in LA its barely getting by when a decent SFR is $750k.


This is probably the most difficult thing to communicate. Within much of California, housing costs are roughly three times that found in many other parts of the country.


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## bicker1

And when there are too many people for too few jobs, then the least talented workers must find other jobs. 

The median income for a household in Los Angeles is $36,687. This isn't about getting enough money to live.

In the end, this whole dispute is solely about power, the union's unwarranted insistence on getting more power and the studio's steadfast refusal. As evidenced by the DGA contract, the studios are completely willing to share profits for online broadcasts. They are NOT willing to extend the power of a power-hungry union to include animation and reality writers. Let those folks have their own unions.


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> This is probably the most difficult thing to communicate. Within much of California, housing costs are roughly three times that found in many other parts of the country.


Why is that? An oral surgeon I know tried to purchase a house in SF 20 years ago and told me the same thing.

In Central NJ, $100,000 a year is just getting by. A lot of union electricians work like the strikers and between the high wages they make when they are working and unemployment compensation and odd jobs, they make out pretty well.

I heard a talk show host a few years ago who posed the question, "How much do waiters and bartenders make in NYC?" The waitresses and bartenders that called in said they were pulling in at least $1500 a week in undeclared income. LA and SF must be about the same, no? Oh, most of the people that called in to that show were actors and other show biz people who did the service work when not employed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Don't know if anybody mentioned this, but the papers in NYC have started to call the striking writers "striters".

Rich


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## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Thanks - I probably should have figured that out!


I stared at it, went away and came back to it and I couldn't figure it out. Acronyms should be banned. I only started to notice them in the early '60s, but, wow, have they ever caught on.

Rich


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## James Long

So we need to get the writers back so more deserving people can get the 'service industry' jobs? "People who did the service work when not employed" is offensive. People IN service work ARE EMPLOYED. Most of them just don't have another paycheck coming in from 'non-service industry' work.


----------



## phrelin

rich584 said:


> The waitresses and bartenders that called in said they were pulling in at least $1500 a week in undeclared income. LA and SF must be about the same, no?


San Francisco can be that much depending on where you work, but most range from 50% to 80% of that number. Of course they aren't out of work actors.


----------



## Rich

James Long said:


> So we need to get the writers back so more deserving people can get the 'service industry' jobs? "People who did the service work when not employed" is offensive. People IN service work ARE EMPLOYED. Most of them just don't have another paycheck coming in from 'non-service industry' work.


Those people who called in to the radio show considered themselves actors, writers, etc. They thought of the "service jobs" as something to do when not employed as actors or whatever. And they repeatedly made that distinction.

I have nothing against waiters and bartenders. I'd be thrilled to make $1500 tax free every week. I meant no offense.

Rich


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## Rich

phrelin said:


> San Francisco can be that much depending on where you work, but most range from 50% to 80% of that number. Of course they aren't out of work actors.


I used to hang out in the Village in NYC. Every bar I went in had someone working who was an "out of work actor or something". Pretty interesting people. Pretty interesting bars. Lots of pretty waitresses. Never realized how much they made.

LA must be like that in some sections, no? These people have to supplement their pay somehow, and it sounds like being a waiter or a bartender (the bartenders made less, but still a lot for undeclared income) would be a perfect way to do it.

Rich


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## James Long

rich584 said:


> I have nothing against waiters and bartenders. I'd be thrilled to make $1500 tax free every week. I meant no offense.


I was pegging the offense on the "out of work" people occupying those jobs "when not employed". They are employed when in the service industry ... and should not be looking down on fellow employees. It's like saying service jobs are not real jobs. (Probably slang, but "when the work dries up" might be a nicer way of putting it.)

I worked a retail 'service job' for 10 years ... many of my co-workers were lifetime employees doing a very needed job.

Perhaps actors and writers are just out of work service industry employees? 
I myself am just an out of work world leader doing some other job while waiting for my chance to rule. :lol:


----------



## Rich

James Long said:


> I was pegging the offense on the "out of work" people occupying those jobs "when not employed".


That's exactly how they think of it. They think they are ACTORS and DANCERS and everything else is a step down.



> Perhaps actors and writers are just out of work service industry employees?


In my experience, yes that is reality. They don't see reality as we do. That time I referred to was in the late '70s middle '80s before Guiliani became mayor and took all the fun out of life. And the same actors and dancers were still tending bar and waiting tables during those times. That is exactly the opinion I got from going out with some waitresses and partying with the bar crew after hours. A lot of those people have such high hopes, it almost pitiful.

One of the questions the host asked several callers was why so many "out of work" actors were calling up and hardly any people who did it for a living. Most callers said the regular staff didn't want to talk about how much they made. And they were afraid someone would recognize them. Can't blame them. Good money.

Rich


----------



## phrelin

If you haven't been closely following the news related to the writers strike, you probably aren't aware of the networks cleaning house - scrubbing commitments to scripted programming in preparation for cutting a deal with the writers.

Beginning with ABC Studios on January 11, the five major TV studios terminated about 70 deals under the force majeure provisions in its producers' contracts. These cases include "producer" contracts, some of which were opportunistic in that there were already disputes between the producer and the studio. See the Hollywood Reporter's "ABC Studios terminates nearly overall deals" and  "Black Monday at TV studios" .

In the past few days, the studios started terminating scripted projects beginning last Friday with "CBS releasing 20 projects". Tuesday it was reported that Fox dropped over 20 scripts and the CW about a dozen, with ABC said to be close to making a similar move.

All these announcements come with statements indicating that the strike caused these terminations, except Fox gave what I consider to be a more honest statement: "In the current environment, we've been forced to take a hard look at our needs for the upcoming season, and as a result we're going to target a more focused range of projects."

As I have noted before, in my opinion the AMPTP never had any intention of settling with the writers and was not bargaining in good faith because of the changes in the distribution environment surrounding scripted programming. I expected broadcast tv to degenerate into mostly news, sports, and reality/game show programming, but I frankly didn't expect it to happen so rapidly. It appears the conglomerates were more prepared to adapt to change than I anticipated and they are using the strike as an excuse to rid themselves of commitments inconsistent with the current economic reality.

Instead of the slow, painful transition from radio to TV that occurred between 1948 and 1958, it appears the conglomerates are cutting out the vestigial organs of scripted TV body in a headlong attempt to adapt. _*If you like scripted programming, you should start practicing to access among others Hulu.com, the Fox/NBCU joint venture to stream programming on the web.*_ (Of course E* and D* could give us direct access to web-based programming.:sure: )

To repeat what I noted in November in Why Broadcast TV Can't Use Scripted Programming, Jeff Zucker, CEO of NBC-Universal, said: "We don't want to replace the dollars we were making in the analog world with pennies on the digital side."

Zucker noted that NBC.com had 50 million video streams in October, 50% higher than the previous record, in May. "It's become a small cable channel in our universe," he said. Of the Hulu venture he said it was a "superstore" while NBC.com was a "specialty shop." He indicated that the digital issue is the biggest nightmare in his job. "Nobody has figured out the economic model yet. And if we don't figure it out soon, those dollars will turn to pennies."

Regarding the writers strike he said: "It will be a real watershed event, [and we'll see] whether [viewers will] come back to scripted programming," he said. "An event like this will happen at everyone's peril."

NBC has been mum so far on its plans to weed out its commitments.


----------



## jodyguercio

^ So in summary as some of my boot camp CCs liked to say (and if you figure out what that acronym is you'll win...) HURRY UP AND WAIT!


----------



## frederic1943

jodyguercio said:


> ^ So in summary as some of my boot camp CCs liked to say (and if you figure out what that acronym is you'll win...) HURRY UP AND WAIT!


Camp Counselors :lol:


----------



## jodyguercio

frederic1943 said:


> Camp Counselors :lol:


Thanks for playing....


----------



## phrelin

The New York Times reported today that Jeff Zucker, CEO of NBC-Universal, indicated that NBC would not be buying numerous pilots in the future as it traditionally has. Instead they will order a couple each year, but would shift more toward a system of straight-to-series orders buying "first episode" scripts.

At the same time, the network will stick by its current script commitments.

This announcement is a win-win for writers, but for producers, directors, actors, and the technical and support staff, the model change is a disaster. They make millions each year shooting pilots that never become series.

The announcement is also consistent with what is becoming an NBCU future business plan for scripted TV, a plan that includes Hulu.com and NBC Direct.

Zucker noted in November that NBC.com had 50 million video streams in October, 50% higher than the previous record, in May. "It's become a small cable channel in our universe," he said. Of the Hulu venture he said it was a "superstore" while NBC.com was a "specialty shop." He indicated that the digital issue is the biggest nightmare in his job. "Nobody has figured out the economic model yet. And if we don't figure it out soon, those dollars will turn to pennies."

He emphasized: "We don't want to replace the dollars we were making in the analog world with pennies on the digital side."


----------



## Sirshagg

phrelin said:


> If you haven't been closely following the news related to the writers strike, you probably aren't aware of the networks cleaning house - scrubbing commitments to scripted programming in preparation for cutting a deal with the writers.
> 
> Beginning with ABC Studios on January 11, the five major TV studios terminated about 70 deals under the force majeure provisions in its producers' contracts. These cases include "producer" contracts, some of which were opportunistic in that there were already disputes between the producer and the studio. See the Hollywood Reporter's "ABC Studios terminates nearly overall deals" and "Black Monday at TV studios" .
> 
> In the past few days, the studios started terminating scripted projects beginning last Friday with "CBS releasing 20 projects". Tuesday it was reported that Fox dropped over 20 scripts and the CW about a dozen, with ABC said to be close to making a similar move.


For the slow folks (me), what does this mean? Does this effecively mean they are cancelling shows?


----------



## jodyguercio

Sirshagg said:


> For the slow folks (me), what does this mean? Does this effecively mean they are cancelling shows?


I think it means that not as many pilots will be filmed each year thus cutting budget for all those involved thus freeing up money...just a theory nothing solid.


----------



## sean10780

jodyguercio said:


> I think it means that not as many pilots will be filmed each year thus cutting budget for all those involved thus freeing up money...just a theory nothing solid.


Yeah I agree as well. I don't think they are axing any existing shows, I think it's just for the new shows for next year.


----------



## Tom Robertson

For several reasons, producers and networks frequently would enter into multi-year or multi-production contracts. Sometimes to keep a great production team they think will produce several hits, sometimes to keep a great production company from working for another network.

It sounds like these deals were becoming dead wood financially to ABC and not living up to the original expectations but could not be terminated until now--if the parties agree to the claim of "force majeure" being made by the networks.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ShawnL25

Tom Robertson said:


> For several reasons, producers and networks frequently would enter into multi-year or multi-production contracts. Sometimes to keep a great production team they think will produce several hits, sometimes to keep a great production company from working for another network.
> 
> It sounds like these deals were becoming dead wood financially to ABC and not living up to the original expectations but could not be terminated until now--if the parties agree to the claim of "force majeure" being made by the networks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


That is it exactly. i.e. one of the executive producers on Scrubs signed a deal not only for the final season to air on NBC but also for is team to create multiple pilots over the next six years. Since this is the last season of scrubs and his first new pilot didn't make it out of development they used the strike as an opportunity to get out from under the last five years of that deal.


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## ShawnL25

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/guide.aspx?id=in_and_out

more information


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## Supramom2000

ShawnL25 said:


> http://www.thefutoncritic.com/guide.aspx?id=in_and_out
> 
> more information


So what are all the other listings that do not have termination dates next to them?


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## ShawnL25

Supramom2000 said:


> So what are all the other listings that do not have termination dates next to them?


They are still under contract, they didn't fire everyone, just alot of excess


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## phrelin

ShawnL25 said:


> http://www.thefutoncritic.com/guide.aspx?id=in_and_out
> 
> more information


When you really look at the list, they sure waste alot of money.:nono:


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## phrelin

The strike may end soon. At least that's the widespread story, though the reliable sources are more cautious. The LA Times reported this afternoon:


> Hollywood's striking writers and major studios have resolved their key differences in contract negotiations, moving them closer toward a final agreement that would end a 3-month-old walkout.
> 
> After two weeks of talks, the parties Friday bridged the gap on the central issues surrounding how much writers should be paid for work that is distributed via the Internet, said three people close to the talks who asked not to be identified because the negotiations are confidential.
> 
> A final contract could be presented to the Writers Guild of America's board by late next week, the people said.


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## Tom Robertson

This would be very welcome news!


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## Drew2k

Indeed, this is welcome news.

Because of the length of the strike and the impact on "pilot season", it can only get better for me if some small miracle occurs and NBC decides to bring back *Journeyman*.


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## jfeheley

Does anybody know how this would work? Say the writers strike ended next week or the week after. Would there be enough time to start writing for a show like "Lost" and have it continue and show the originally planned 16 weeks instead of the 8 weeks we now know we are getting?


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## Tom Robertson

Every case would be different depending on the status of the existing partial scripts, the production company status, and the whim of the networks.

In other words, it will be very interesting.


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## cdc101

jfeheley said:


> Does anybody know how this would work? Say the writers strike ended next week or the week after. Would there be enough time to start writing for a show like "Lost" and have it continue and show the originally planned 16 weeks instead of the 8 weeks we now know we are getting?


Well, they've had plenty of time to think of new ideas...hopefully they secretly wrote some stuff down!


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## jfeheley

cdc101 said:


> Well, they've had plenty of time to think of new ideas...hopefully they secretly wrote some stuff down!


I thought the same thing. If I had to guess I would assume that every writer on strike secretly wrote stuff.


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## Sharkie_Fan

Tom Robertson said:


> Every case would be different depending on the status of the existing partial scripts, the production company status, and the whim of the networks.
> 
> In other words, it will be very interesting.


I've heard that some shows have scripts written ahead of time, but do alot of rewriting up until the last minute. Because no writers, some of those episodes were not filmed because they could not be rewritten.

I don't know how accurate that statement is, but, if it's true, then those shows could be up and running relatively quickly after the strike ends, since they have the bulk of the writing done and it would be edits and rewrites to be done as they go through rehearsals and the likes.

I think that for a multitude of reasons, shows are going to get back as expeditiously as possible. Advertisers certainly don't want reruns if the possibility of new episodes exists. And certainly every day they miss makes it harder to come back.

We love our TV shows, but I admit we haven't missed TV as much as I thought we would have with all our episodic shows having run out of episodes now. The TV spends alot more time turned off, or playing quietly in the background, while we play with the kids. We would at times let our oldest watch a cartoon in the bedroom while we watch an episode of one of our shows in the living room. I don't think he's watched a cartoon in our bedroom since the strike began.

I'm sure there are others like us who may not return to ALL our shows that we had watched in the past. Even if we leave all our season passes intact, we probably won't watch all of them as closely as we had previously.


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## Mark Holtz

This is my unscientific wild-ass guess as to what may happen if the strike is settled next week. Of course, some of it may be fanciful thinking, but hey, we can use that....

For shows that are hit or get reliable ratings, production will resume on the remaining episodes of the current season and immediately go into the following season of episodes.
The episodes that are produced won't be aired until September-November.
The 2009 season will run from February-May, break for the summer, and then resume from October-November.
Why not? You can even cram an entire season without repeats from January until May, and fill September through November with reality junk.

It would be interesting to see how many viewers have been alienated from television thanks to this strike. How many people are not really missing the series as they thought they did? After all, do we have a thread speculating on the next story arc of _Heroes_? The networks will need to consider some extreme measures to win back the audience and temporarily suspending the items that are alienating the audience. They should also consider (gasp) SUPERsizing the seasons rather than supersizing the length of the episodes.


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## Drew2k

cdc101 said:


> Well, they've had plenty of time to think of new ideas...hopefully they secretly wrote some stuff down!


I've had a similar thought about the writers, but about the showrunners themselves. It's not every day that showrunners can really take the time to read what their fans are saying, so given that he execs for the shows have been idle for quite a while, those showrunners may have been rethinking season long story arcs or tweaking stories based on fan feedback. What was working? Not working? Etc. They have had time to fine-tune their thoughts on their characters and plot direction ... could be a good thing, especially for new shows.


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## Stuart Sweet

This morning, several news outlets were saying a deal was on its way to the WGA members. Now it's possible that's not true. 

An industry insider told me two weeks ago that he expected the strike to be over in three weeks.


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## Sirshagg

Stuart Sweet said:


> This morning, several news outlets were saying a deal was on its way to the WGA members. Now it's possible that's not true.
> 
> An industry insider told me two weeks ago that he expected the strike to be over in three weeks.


Too bad. I've been secretly (well not any more ) hoping for the Oscars to crash and burn because of the strike.


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## Indiana627

From EW.com (dateline Feb 5, 2008, 01:09 AM):

_While rumors continued to swirl in Hollywood that both the Writers Guild of America leadership and the conglomerates had hammered out a tentative deal, WGA Negotiating Committee Chairman John F. Bowman sent an email to members late Monday that was obtained by EW.com. "While we have made important progress since the companies re-engaged us in serious talks, negotiations continue," he said. "Regardless of what you may hear or read, there are many significant points that have yet to be worked out."_

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/02/wga-to-membersh.html


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## Indiana627

Some shows will be quicker getting back into production than others once the strike is settled. I'm particularly happy to see Lost on that list.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr...sion/news/e3iea16e1ac946e523575ab4bb5ea67af18


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## dreadlk

This has gone on way to long, time for it to end.


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## Drew2k

So here's a question: Who's been writing for all of those daytime soaps that are still on the air? Are the writers not in the WGA?


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## Sirshagg

Drew2k said:


> So here's a question: Who's been writing for all of those daytime soaps that are still on the air? Are the writers not in the WGA?


You mean someone actually writes that ...


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## Pink Fairy

~rofl~


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## Drew2k

Uh-huh, yeah, so, umm....

How is it that writers for the daytime soaps sill are writing, the soaps are still on the air? Are the daytime writers in a different union, not subject to the WGA strike? If they're in the WGA, how did they get exemptions to continue writing?


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## Tom Robertson

Apparently soaps employ a lot of tricks to keep going: a "finacial core" group who pay union dues and receive union benefits but are able to keep the show going; scripts that are written 2 months or more in advance; and instant "writers" who were recently office staff, ADs, gofers, etc. NYTimes has a good article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/arts/television/21soap.html

And there is still the question "you mean they are written?" 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Drew2k

Thanks for that article Tom. 

I was just wondering if some of the soap writers could have temporarily written for the prime time shows. Could have made for some interesting plot developments ... Chuck finds out Sarah is really his long lost sister ... etc.


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## frederic1943

Drew2k said:


> Thanks for that article Tom.
> I was just wondering if some of the soap writers could have temporarily written for the prime time shows. Could have made for some interesting plot developments ... Chuck finds out Sarah is really his long lost sister ... etc.


Or get some of the Spanish Soap Opera writers and do Chuck in the Telenovella style.:lol:


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## James Long

Tom Robertson said:


> And there is still the question "you mean they are written?"


An hour of TV is 43 minutes of show now? Burn up some of that time with credits and "last time" shots and remember that these are soaps ... just do a lot of long dramatic pauses with slow camera zooms!

I'm surprised they can do five hours a week anyways ... it just shows how much time is wasted and how things are stretched out.

BTW: My favorite time waster was Monday's editions of The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Late Night with Conan O'Brian. They had a three show crossover! Colbert and Conan on Stewart's show, Stewart and Conan on Colbert's show and finally Colbert and Stewart on Conan's show. Plus a special guest calling all three of them idiots.


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## Stuart Sweet

Hopefully it will all be over Monday.


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## Lord Vader

I doubt it.


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## Stuart Sweet

Is that just your ever-present optimism or do you have a reason to think it won't be?


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## Lord Vader

I have foreseen it, just like I foresaw it going on for this long to begin with.


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## James Long

Every party needs a pooper, that is why we invited you. :lol:

I'm enjoying DVDs during the strike (for the moments when reality and the few new shows are not available). I got NewsRadio for my birthday!


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## Sixto

Deal Has Been Reached to End Writers' Strike: Eisner

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23057002


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## Stuart Sweet

HOO-AAA!!


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## Doug Brott

Yee-Haw! I do hope that they can finish the last 8 episodes of Lost for this year .. That would be awesome.


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## mhayes70

It's about time!!!!!!!


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## sean10780

Awesome, get back to work writers, so you can finish up Lost and all the other great shows on TV.


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## tcusta00

Doug Brott said:


> Yee-Haw! I do hope that they can finish the last 8 episodes of Lost for this year .. That would be awesome.


I was just saying that as last night's show was wrapping up... I can't stand the "between-season" pauses, nevermind the mid-season ones!


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## Lord Vader

Maybe it's me, but how long can someone watch a show about people stranded on an island? And are they wearing the same clothes all the time? Ewwwww!

It's kinda like _Prison Break_. Once you break out of the prison, for how long can the premise be sustained and the viewer watch?


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## tcusta00

Lord Vader said:


> Maybe it's me, but how long can someone watch a show about people stranded on an island? And are they wearing the same clothes all the time? Ewwwww!
> 
> It's kinda like _Prison Break_. Once you break out of the prison, for how long can the premise be sustained and the viewer watch?


It's an addiction, really. We need help.

I agree about prison break - we watched first season then kinda snickered as they were put back in prison in season 2. now they're about to break out again... which prison will they be put into after this??? Either that or they have to end the series or change the name to "We broke out... now what?"


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## sean10780

Lost is an addiction. I'm just glad that they are revealing things.

I like watching Prison break. I don't care if they continue to break out, it's all about entertainment.


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## tcusta00

sean10780 said:


> Lost is an addiction. I'm just glad that they are revealing things.
> 
> I like watching Prison break. I don't care if they continue to break out, it's all about entertainment.


It is entertaining, and I admit I watch it and even that this week's cliffhanger left me kicking and screaming for more. But to me, the plot's gonna get thin quick unless they come up with something a little deeper. They really limited themselves with that title. I smell a spinoff or some retooling to keep the plot going...


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## Sirshagg

sean10780 said:


> Lost is an addiction. I'm just glad that they are revealing things.
> 
> I like watching Prison break. I don't care if they continue to break out, it's all about entertainment.


I agree, but it will get kinda old if they keep breaking out only to be thrown back in again and again.


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## sean10780

Sirshagg said:


> I agree, but it will get kinda old if they keep breaking out only to be thrown back in again and again.


True I'm not sure how long they can keep it up and the storyline still being good. We'll see what happens I guess.


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## Sirshagg

Hopefully all these writers have had some time to come up with fresh new ideas.


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## tcusta00

I'm just happy the strike is over and the shows get to continue. This has been the longest 3 years of my life. Wait, how long has it been? Who's the president? 

Sad. :nono2:


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## AlbertZeroK

tcusta00 said:


> It's an addiction, really. We need help.
> 
> I agree about prison break - we watched first season then kinda snickered as they were put back in prison in season 2. now they're about to break out again... which prison will they be put into after this??? Either that or they have to end the series or change the name to "We broke out... now what?"


That's why I stopped watching 24. I mean, how many family members can you add to a conspiricy? I think in the end, it was getting really hard to watch and believe.


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## sean10780

tcusta00 said:


> I'm just happy the strike is over and the shows get to continue. This has been the longest 3 years of my life. Wait, how long has it been? Who's the president?
> 
> Sad. :nono2:


I know how you feel. I'm tired of flipping through the channels and only seeing reality shows and night time game shows.

Let's get the good shows back on please.

Hopefully the writers had tons of time to keep writing for there shows, so the shows can resume production quickly.


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## sean10780

AlbertZeroK said:


> That's why I stopped watching 24. I mean, how many family members can you add to a conspiricy? I think in the end, it was getting really hard to watch and believe.


That's why it's called entertainment and not reality.


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## tcusta00

sean10780 said:


> I'm tired of ... night time game shows.


Although, imho, one good nighttime game show has emerged this season - Moment of Truth. The shock value of some of the questions they ask these people is great. We love to see other people squirm; entertainment at the expense of others.

:flag: God Bless America!:flag:


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## Sirshagg

tcusta00 said:


> Although, imho, one good nighttime game show has emerged this season - Moment of Truth. The shock value of some of the questions they ask these people is great. We love to see other people squirm; entertainment at the expense of others.
> 
> :flag: God Bless America!:flag:


I just lost all respect for you.


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## tcusta00

:crying_sa :crying_sa I was desperate... it was there... I was drunk.... and lonely. I'm sorry!!!! :crying_sa


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## Sirshagg

:lol:


tcusta00 said:


> :crying_sa :crying_sa I was desperate... it was there... I was drunk.... and lonely. I'm sorry!!!! :crying_sa


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## Lord Vader

sean10780 said:


> True I'm not sure how long they can keep it up and the storyline still being good. We'll see what happens I guess.


How about a prison love triangle?


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## sean10780

Good One People.

I've watched Moment of Truth a few times. My wife likes it. I just hate how there are sooooo many pauses in the game. We usually skip to the answer.

Just tell me the answer already.


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## sean10780

Lord Vader said:


> How about a prison love triangle?


That could get interesting, but it might need to be switched off of Fox then onto showtime or HBO.


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## Sirshagg

sean10780 said:


> Good One People.
> 
> I've watched Moment of Truth a few times. My wife likes it. I just hate how there are sooooo many pauses in the game. We usually skip to the answer.
> 
> Just tell me the answer already.


Yep, you can pretty much watch the whole show in 10-15 minutes


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## James Long

Yeah --- get on with it! (Tell Howie to move it move it move it as well.)


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## sean10780

Sirshagg said:


> Yep, you can pretty much watch the whole show in 10-15 minutes


I read somewhere that 13 new shows are being produced and that a lot of people complained about the time, and that the new shows won't have so many pauses.


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## Lord Vader

sean10780 said:


> That could get interesting, but it might need to be switched off of Fox then onto showtime or HBO.


More like Logo.


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## sean10780

:lol:



Lord Vader said:


> More like Logo.


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## AlbertZeroK

sean10780 said:


> That could get interesting, but it might need to be switched off of Fox then onto showtime or HBO.


Perhaps we could see more Natalie Dormer then!


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## tcusta00

sean10780 said:


> I read somewhere that 13 new shows are being produced and that a lot of people complained about the time, and that the new shows won't have so many pauses.


Yeah the pauses are ridiculous. They probably did that because they didn't have that many contestants sign up and needed to stretch it out.

"Sure I'll go on your game show. What? I have to air all my dirty laundry in front of 10 million viewers and do it all on a lie detector that could be inaccurate at times... wait a minute..."


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## sean10780

tcusta00 said:


> Yeah the pauses are ridiculous. They probably did that because they didn't have that many contestants sign up and needed to stretch it out.
> 
> "Sure I'll go on your game show. What? I have to air all my dirty laundry in front of 10 million viewers and do it all on a lie detector that could be inaccurate at times... wait a minute..."


yeah, I'm sure it broke up a few marriages. But now since the show is a hit, hopefully they can get everything straightened out and fixed for the new shows.


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## tcusta00

sean10780 said:


> yeah, I'm sure it broke up a few marriages. But now since the show is a hit, hopefully they can get everything straightened out and fixed for the new shows.


What really gets me about it is that they answer ±30 questions before the show tapes. So, say the contestant answers 10 and then decides to take the money and run. The family has got to be thinking on the flight home - what the hell did he know was still coming that was worse than what he already answered?! That should make for nice dinner-table conversation for the next few weeks.


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## Drew2k

I hope with the strike ending at this late stage in "development" season that the networks give some reconsideration for bringing back shows that were on the bubble or that even had their bubbles pop. Journeyman, for instance. I would love for this show to come back in the fall ... It's going to be tough for tons of brand new scripted shows, so why not re-use a show with critical appeal and see what happens?


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## sean10780

tcusta00 said:


> What really gets me about it is that they answer ±30 questions before the show tapes. So, say the contestant answers 10 and then decides to take the money and run. The family has got to be thinking on the flight home - what the hell did he know was still coming that was worse than what he already answered?! That should make for nice dinner-table conversation for the next few weeks.


yeah I wondered that too. I wonder if they get hammered at the dinner table when they get home on what the other questions are. hehehe that is funny.


----------



## Sixto

Drew2k said:


> I hope with the strike ending at this late stage in "development" season that the networks give some reconsideration for bringing back shows that were on the bubble or that even had their bubbles pop. Journeyman, for instance. I would love for this show to come back in the fall ... It's going to be tough for tons of brand new scripted shows, so why not re-use a show with critical appeal and see what happens?


Would love to see Journeyman come back. Just seems so unlikely though ...


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## sean10780

Drew2k said:


> I hope with the strike ending at this late stage in "development" season that the networks give some reconsideration for bringing back shows that were on the bubble or that even had their bubbles pop. Journeyman, for instance. I would love for this show to come back in the fall ... It's going to be tough for tons of brand new scripted shows, so why not re-use a show with critical appeal and see what happens?


I heard that only the successful shows will be pushed forward to finish out this season, we'll see what happens though.

Maybe next season since there won't be much of a pilot season, they will bring back all the shows that weren't as successful.


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## Snoofie

Drew2k said:


> I hope with the strike ending at this late stage in "development" season that the networks give some reconsideration for bringing back shows that were on the bubble or that even had their bubbles pop. Journeyman, for instance. I would love for this show to come back in the fall ... It's going to be tough for tons of brand new scripted shows, so why not re-use a show with critical appeal and see what happens?


The new issue of TV Guide basically said that if a show didn't get a full season pick-up before the writers strike, like Bionic Woman, then that show will not be renewed. That really doesn't make sense to me if they aren't going to have a pilot season. Shows and casts are already in place for these shows and they can get them back on track and get 7-8 shows ready to go before the season ends if the strike is resolved this month. I agree about Journeyman, it was a good show that just didn't catch on, but it didn't receive half the promotional push that Bionic Woman did. Give these shows another try to catch on while nothing else is on right now and see if they catch an audience.


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## DogLover

Snoofie said:


> The new issue of TV Guide basically said that if a show didn't get a full season pick-up before the writers strike, like Bionic Woman, then that show will not be renewed. That really doesn't make sense to me if they aren't going to have a pilot season. Shows and casts are already in place for these shows and they can get them back on track and get 7-8 shows ready to go before the season ends if the strike is resolved this month. I agree about Journeyman, it was a good show that just didn't catch on, but it didn't receive half the promotional push that Bionic Woman did. Give these shows another try to catch on while nothing else is on right now and see if they catch an audience.


My guess is that if it was not already picked up for the full season before the strike, the cast is no longer under contract. The option dates for the contracts have already passed. (Of course, it's not like the actors and crew have really had any work to take the place of those shows, so most of them are likely still available.)


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## Sixto

"Letter From The Presidents With Deal Summary"

http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/02/letter-from-presidents-with-deal.html


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## Paul Secic

Sixto said:


> "Letter From The Presidents With Deal Summary"
> 
> http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/02/letter-from-presidents-with-deal.html


All I care about is they film movies again.. I don't give a good fig about network faire.


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## Mark Holtz

There are two votes... one to continue the strike, one to ratify the contract.


----------



## Sixto

Yep, they vote Tuesday 2pm-6pm PT. Results Tuesday night.

http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/


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## tcusta00

Sixto said:


> Yep, they vote Tuesday 2pm-6pm PT. Results Tuesday night.
> 
> http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/


I hope the news channels block out that time for FULL COVERAGE and analysis! :lol: :lol:


----------



## phrelin

One of the best summaries of the costs and benefits of the strike:

Dollars and sense of the 3-month strike


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## Stuart Sweet

It looks like the strike is over, for all intents and purposes, Wednesday, February 13, 2008. 

Bout darn time. My hearts go out to those who lost four months' wages without the choice of whether or not to strike and gained no benefit from the agreements reached.


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## tcusta00

Stuart Sweet said:


> It looks like the strike is over, for all intents and purposes, Wednesday, February 13, 2008.
> 
> Bout darn time. My hearts go out to those who lost four months' wages without the choice of whether or not to strike and no benefit from the agreements reached.


:joy: :joy: :joy:

There's always losers created from these things. People automatically assume organized labor is good and collective bargaining creates winners on both sides... not so much.


----------



## heathramos

I wonder when we will find out if any series will get new shows this season or not


----------



## phrelin

heathramos said:


> I wonder when we will find out if any series will get new shows this season or not


Some conflicting info, but check the futon critic, the hollywood reporter, and if you're interested in what the CW is doing, check this TVWeek report. Some of its a bit depressing based on my hopes.


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## tomcrown1

heathramos said:


> I wonder when we will find out if any series will get new shows this season or not


This is Tim Goodwin take on this question
"The Writers Guild of America may find out very soon that even if its members "won," they also lost. And even viewers who have managed to get through the writers strike with a minimum of entertainment interruptus will likely feel the fallout as well."

Full airtcle here
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/02/11/DD19UVL52.DTL


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## phrelin

tomcrown1 said:


> This is Tim Goodwin take on this question
> "The Writers Guild of America may find out very soon that even if its members "won," they also lost. And even viewers who have managed to get through the writers strike with a minimum of entertainment interruptus will likely feel the fallout as well."
> 
> Full airtcle here
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/02/11/DD19UVL52.DTL


That's a really good article. I really liked this comment:


> A lot of people in the industry believe that instead of writing "passion projects," like the next Great American Novel, while they were on strike, writers were actually writing scripts for the shows that employ them. Yes, that would have broken the rules. But the WGA is likely to look the other way. Everyone is talking about a two-week period of writing scripts before filming can start at the earliest. One network executive joked that those two weeks will be the most productive in the history of television.


----------

