# DMA: Omaha & Lincoln Ne



## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Problem Description:

The OTA Guide data for Nebraska PBS OTA Station was uplinked over a Month ago. The guide data does not work because the stations call letters are not used in the PSPIP data. NET is used instead of KUON.

The 14,000 range guide data map down is expecting KUON for the stations call letters. All of the Nebraska PBS Digital channels use NET1 NET2 NET3 and NET5 and not the FCC call letters. The NET stands for Nebraska Educational TV.

I contacted the station back in March when they first tried the channel mapping and again in May. I have also contacted Dish. All they need to do is change the Channel mapping name to NET. My requests to fix this go un-answered.

I have also confirm that 3 other people in the two DMAs are also having this same problem. They have also contacted the Station and Dish network. The guide data is uplinked but it does not work on any of the current model HD OTA Dish receivers. We have all done the typical check switch and reboots.

Below is the data from the uplink status report from May.

14416 - KUON1 Spotbeam 29 
14417 - KUON2 Spotbeam 29 
14418 - KUON3 Spotbeam 29 
14419 - KUON5 Spotbeam 29


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

This is correct. I, too, just get the NET call letters and no guide data as a result.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

What can I do to make something happen with this?


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

I have been in touch with both Dish and NET over the past month or so and have given up on EPG data for NET. They have both said it is the other's problem. Dish even went so far as to tell NET in an email that they DO NOT provide guide data for NET's subchannels, so now NET really doesn't think there is a problem to fix. Basically, Dish made me look like an idiot to the NET engineer I was talking to.

It sucks, but I don't think it's gonna happen. (And I really think it is a fairly simple fix, they just can't seem to get on the same page...)

I fought the fight, but they wore me down!


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

What excuse does NET have for not using the letters they are supposed to: KUON?


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

Well, I'm not entirely certain that is the problem. I think maybe there is more to it than that. But to answer your question, I don't know...

If you feel like joining the battle, call Bob Huber at NET and email [email protected]. (Dish will probably tell you to delete and rescan your locals.)

Like I said before, Dish has told NET that they don't provide EPG info for NET's OTA subchannels, so it will probably look like you're crazy.

Oh, I forgot to mention this. One guy at NET actually told me to get the listings for their channels off of the internet and print them out...

Keep me posted if you make any progress!


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Alright. My battle has begun.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmmm.. I would be suprised that call let0tering would be how the mapping was occuring but I don't have personal knowledge to how the mapping occurs. I don't think it is as simple as mapping call signs based on other issues i have read in the past. However, it does look like something in the stream the station is provided is not correct to make the mapping trigger on the Dish receivers.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

What I have so far.



> Thanks for your note about our call letters. NET Television operates astatewide network of nine analog and nine digital television stations. Our
> main station is KUON, but we also operate KXNE, KTNE, KPNE, KRNE, KMNE,KLNE, KYNE and KHNE. Rather than promote our schedule using nine different
> sets of call signs, we use the network name of NET. We do, however useeach station's call letters on the hour for legal station identification.
> I hope this answers your question.


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

I really hope you have better luck than I had. I would love to have the EPG for NET! I'm crossing my fingers...


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Now I am getting nitty-gritty. Details to follow.


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

epg would sure be nice.

does programming only show on NET-5 when a program is in HD?


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

NET-HD (NET-5) only broadcasts over-the-air from 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm. (They may have longer hours on the various cable systems, but I don't know for sure.)


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

Got an email today from Dish asking if I was still having problems with this. Nothing has changed...

Hopefully they are really working to get it functioning.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I have been in some contact with Dish on this. One of the suggestions was to edit the names of the channels in question, so two days ago I made these changes:

NET-1 to KUON1
NET-2 to KUON-2

I left the others alone for now, and I used different naming schemes on the 
two channels above in case the dash was or was not supposed to be in place. 
I figured one of the channels named correctly would pick up EPG data and I 
could go from there.

That was two days ago, so the receiver has been through its usual overnight reboot and retrieval of data twice. Neither renamed channel synched; both still say Digital Service in the program guide.

More to come - I have not given up!


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Trail seems to have gone dead with this one. I am now not hearing anything back from either side (NET or Dish). Is no news good news, as in maybe they are actually talking to each other now?  Not likely, I know.


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

It might help if we could get some other local viewers to contact NET and Dish to help stir the pot!

Anybody? Anybody?

If so, call Bob Huber at NET and email [email protected]. Please post if you are joining the battle and let us know what was said, etc...

Or, Presence, do you have any better contacts?


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I have specific names on both sides, but do not want to drop them in public, or just yet. I am still working the system, don't worry.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

More progress today. The issue is not dead yet!


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

It now works for me.  Anybody else?

I do not know if it will happen automatically, but if not you may have to delete all your locals (Select All, Delete, Save) then rescan your locals back in. Also, afterwards a Check Switch might be necessary to force a Program Guide download.


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

I'll give it a try after work... Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I just checked my second 622, which I did not play with at all. The guide data is now syncing up.

The only problem at this point appears related to 012-05 (PBS-HD). On my second, untouched 622 it still says Digital Service. I suspect this is because the channel only broadcasts for a few hours at night. On my first 622 when I scanned channels while it was on the air last night, the guide data synched on it.


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## Parp (Jun 19, 2004)

Woo Hoo! It works! Thanks P for all your help with this. I'd be interested in knowing how you got this done, and what the problem was if you feel like telling the story.

I did have to delete and rescan my locals, then do a check switch. I will have to scan again when NET-HD is on the air this evening.

Looks like mine shows "Off Air" at some sorta odd times, (until 1:00 pm everyday on NET-1 and NET-2) but hopefully that will work itself out after it downloads the guide on its own a few times. I know they really are off air over night, but not till 1:00 in the after noon.

Thanks again!

I'm going to show my appreciation by becoming an NET member.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Parp said:


> Looks like mine shows "Off Air" at some sorta odd times, (until 1:00 pm everyday on NET-1 and NET-2) but hopefully that will work itself out after it downloads the guide on its own a few times.


Actually, "Off Air" is the information being put in the guide by whoever builds the guide and is not the fault of Dish or NET, unless NET is providing them bum information. There won't be a way around that one.


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## xteacher (Nov 16, 2004)

Presence said:


> It now works for me.  Anybody else?
> 
> I do not know if it will happen automatically, but if not you may have to delete all your locals (Select All, Delete, Save) then rescan your locals back in. Also, afterwards a Check Switch might be necessary to force a Program Guide download.


I'm not sure I follow exactly what you did to get this to work. Is what is quoted above pretty much the whole process?

I've been fighting it for over a year now. I'm in central Nebraska and it's not just NET but CBS that is screwed up here. Guide is for KOLN CH 10 and we get KGIN CH 11 off air. And just like those in the eastern part of the state that off-air is CH12 for NET, our's is CH 29. NET and CBS are the only HD channels we have I can't record them except by manual timer then they don't record correctly. At least they didn't the last time I was working on this during the winter.

Any step-by-step directions would certainly help me out. Thanks everyone


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## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

xteacher said:


> I've been fighting it for over a year now. I'm in central Nebraska and it's not just NET but CBS that is screwed up here. Guide is for KOLN CH 10 and we get KGIN CH 11 off air. And just like those in the eastern part of the state that off-air is CH12 for NET, our's is CH 29. NET and CBS are the only HD channels we have I can't record them except by manual timer then they don't record correctly. At least they didn't the last time I was working on this during the winter.


I'm just across the line in SD but have similar problems as you. I can't help you with the NET problem. I do get NET over the air out of Bassett (KMNE) but of course for me it shows "digital" in the guide. However, with the KOLN/KGIN I think you are like me "SOL" :-( I'm in the Sioux Falls DMA, I get KELO and KSFY on translator stations KPLO and KPRY.
Even though the programing is identical to the Sioux Falls stations, KPLO and KPRY shows "digital". Dish knows nothing about our translator stations so we get no guide info. The solution would be for dish to give us the ability to attach the info from one station to another. That is I could attach KELO guide data to KPLO. I doubt that this will ever happen.

I very rarely record off the air but I have had no problems doing so. Of course with no guide data I do have to record with manual timers.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

huskerpat said:


> does programming only show on NET-5 when a program is in HD?


I previously understood that NET-HD only broadcast in HD from 7-10pm, and that seems to be what happens. However, we just got a new HD television installed at work and it gets NET-HD full-time! I am trying to figure out how and why, because via the 622 OTA feature I still only get HD from 7-10, and during all other hours one of the other NET channels shows on NET-5.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

Is anyone else having trouble getting 012-05 (NET-HD) full time, and now even part-time?


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## GoLongAndChopChop881 (Dec 20, 2017)

We're done with the 5th HD subchannel on May 22, 2013. It's been 11 years while we had the occurrence. *NET is now broadcasting 24/7!*


KUON was added in HD on DISH back in November 28th, 2012. (with OTA mapping) Moved from E12 to E16 on February 13th, 2013 with better spotbeam footprint.
KYNE was added in HD on DISH back in January 17th, 2013 as of the first broadcast of E16. (with OTA mapping)

Here are the subchannels on most NET stations:

NET (Main PBS programming / HD 720p)
NET-W (World / HD 720p)
NET-C (Create / 2 radio channels on SAP tracks)
NET-K (PBS Kids 24/7)

Obviously, I need more subchannels on DISH's orbital slots.

KUONDT2 (needed to be on 61.5)

KUONDT3 (needed to be on 61.5)

KUONDT4 (needed to be on 61.5 and 110)

KYNEDT2 (needed to be on 61.5)

KYNEDT3 (needed to be on 61.5)

KYNEDT4 (needed to be on 61.5 and 110)


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Dish has a limited number of spot beam transponders for each area, once they are full, one has to drop for another to be added.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Typically DISH carries one channel per station via satellite - usually the -01 subchannel. I believe there are a couple of -02 feeds carried instead of -01 feeds in markets where carrying the -01 feed would lead to duplication.

For the major networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) DISH will usually carry a second subchannel of a station via satellite. (For example, if a station has CBS on -01 and FOX on -02 both subchannels are likely to be carried via satellite.) DISH has enough spotbeam capacity to carry every station they are required to carry (every station eligible for MUST CARRY or CONSENT TO CARRY under the law).

Additional subchannels are (generally) not carried via satellite. DISH provides EPG only service for those OTA subchannels ... 1126 EPG feeds at current count for OTA subchannels. Providing this information via satellite makes the EPG feed larger but does not take up spotbeam or other channel space on the satellites. The EPG for OTA does not require reception of a specific orbital slot.


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## GoLongAndChopChop881 (Dec 20, 2017)

James Long said:


> Typically DISH carries one channel per station via satellite - usually the -01 subchannel. I believe there are a couple of -02 feeds carried instead of -01 feeds in markets where carrying the -01 feed would lead to duplication.
> 
> For the major networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) DISH will usually carry a second subchannel of a station via satellite. (For example, if a station has CBS on -01 and FOX on -02 both subchannels are likely to be carried via satellite.) DISH has enough spotbeam capacity to carry every station they are required to carry (every station eligible for MUST CARRY or CONSENT TO CARRY under the law).
> 
> Additional subchannels are (generally) not carried via satellite. DISH provides EPG only service for those OTA subchannels ... 1126 EPG feeds at current count for OTA subchannels. Providing this information via satellite makes the EPG feed larger but does not take up spotbeam or other channel space on the satellites. The EPG for OTA does not require reception of a specific orbital slot.


I'm may be a little obnoxious by wanting more OTA EPG mappings.

What happened on January 10, 2017, my local NET station, KYNE-TV, moved to its different tower owned by Hearst Properties Inc. which holds KETV and with 21.5 kW ERP. 
The original tower from 2003 located at the University of Nebraska (Omaha) owned by Nebraska Educational Telecommunications Commission with 200 kW ERP got *dismantled* for unknown reasons.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Wow I started this threat in 2007 and it is still not fixed yet.
Many of the Lincoln and Omaha sub channels are still missing like some I really want like 42.3 COMET and the brand new 6.3 . H& U with lots of star trek on it.
I opened an other case with Exective support as Dish seemed to stop adding OTA guide data.

????WHAT HAS CHANGED????
Big thing that changed is Directv found a fix to the guide DB storage and is now adding every OTA channel in every market they are now 60% done, Omaha will be soon, but that does not help Dish customers, but compitition is good so maybe this new info will jump start Dish.


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