# ASK DBSTalk: Does this look like a bug or defective hardware?



## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Note - I'm away from my 921 at this time and will add the firmware, bootstrap etc. when I return home from working. I just wanted to get this into an official 921 support area for feedback from the more experienced 921 owners.

I suspect that my off-air tuner may be defective and have taken a few photos to show you exactly what I am seeing on my system.

Most are self explanatory given their file names. As you can see, the 921 has a lock on my local digital ABC but receives nothing but snow when I manually enter the ATV channel (27) into the 921 (an auto scan returns no channels at all). To further illustrate this, I have taken the lead from the 921's off-air antenna input and have connected it directly to the coax input of my Mitsubishi HD-ready set.

One of the few DTV channels that I can get a lock on









The corresponding ATV channel as seen through the 921's off-air tuner









I am able to receive nothing but snow on any of the corresponding ATV channels when using the 921. When the same antenna lead is connected to my television I receive strong signals w/great picture on all ATV channels except channels 15 and 47 which are less than perfect.

Here is that same station with the off-air antenna connected directly to my television.









As of this morning, the 921 is only able to receive a solid digital signal on two of my local DTV stations (ABC's WKOW-DT and PBS's WHA-DT). I've included a photo of my unsuccessful attempt to gain a solid DTV signal on DTV ch 50 (CBS's WISC-DT channel 3). The signal meter jumps from 0 to 70 but does not lock. I have this same signal lock issue with DTV ch 11 (FOX's WMSN channel 47) and DTV ch 19 (NBC's WMTV Ch 15).

Inconsistent DTV signal unable to lock on









...and a once again a clear picture of the same channel with the antenna connected directly from the diplexer to the antenna input of the television.









In addition to this, my 811 connected to an HDTV in another part of the house receives all ATV and DTV signals (with the exception of NBC which is intermittent).

If I can receive such a clear picture from the diplexer-TV connection, shouldn't I be able to receive a similar signal on the 921? 

*UPDATE * - _I've recently been in contact with Mark Duffy & Peter Dall at E*. Peter contacted me on 7/7 informing me that they have an idea as to what is causing it and that they should be able to correct it from their end.

I am VERY pleased with the support that they are providing._

So, has anyone else seen this issue? Does anyone have any idea what may have caused it or have a theory on how it will be corrected?

Your feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Spence


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Spence - first of all, you are not tuning to a digital OTA channel if you tune to channel 27. You are tuning to an analog OTA channel, which is why you are getting the snow. Your 2nd picture is of analog channel 27.

To tune to your digital OTA channel, you need to enter 02701 on the remote.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Spence - first of all, you are not tuning to a digital OTA channel if you tune to channel 27. You are tuning to an analog OTA channel, which is why you are getting the snow. Your 2nd picture is of analog channel 27.
> 
> To tune to your digital OTA channel, you need to enter 02701 on the remote.


Thanks Mark, but I fear that I may not have been clear in my initial posting.

I've had both the 6000 and the 811 models so I'm up on the basic ATV & DTV channel naming (027-01 for DTV etc.).

What my 921 (and I) am have a problem with is that the 921 is not receiving any ATV signals.

I have attempted to manually input my ATV channels. I have also had the 921 "scan" for ATV (analog) channels. No ATV channels are detected, no ATV signal is being received.

The off-air feed is the same antenna going to my 811. My earlier 6000 (hooked to the same feed as the current 921) had none of these issues.

My analog (ATV) stations come in perfectly when connected to my TV (also VCR/s) so it isn't a cabling issue.

Is there something else that I am missing?

I will be currious to hear what the E* guys that I'm working with this on come up with. I was hoping that someone out there may have run into a similar situation.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

If that's the case, I don't think that this is a software issue. But, I don't have a VHF antenna installed to try to pick up my analog channels in Denver, so I can't really test very well. I do know that I get a weak signal from some of our analog uhf stations here through my 921 if I set that up.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> If that's the case, I don't think that this is a software issue.


This is exactly what I am thinking, but Peter says that they are working on some sort of solution. They have instructed me to make sure that I turn off the receiver every night, which leads me to believe that they are working on some sort of software fix.

I trust that you'd have some word on any upcoming firmware updates. Is it possible that they can force a software hit to individual receivers?

Either way, Peter says that he will get back to me sometime on Friday with more information.

I'll post results as things materialize if anyone is interested in tracking the issue.

Spence


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

They told you to turn it off every night so that your 921 reboots. I usually have some idea of when new software is coming (not always), and I have a pretty good idea that a new 921 version is not coming very soon. And hitting individual non-beta receivers with software isn't something that they're going to do. Theoretically it's possible, but logistically it'd be a nightmare.


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> But, I don't have a VHF antenna installed to try to pick up my analog channels in Denver, so I can't really test very well.


If you want to check analog VHF on the 921, you could use the channel 3 or 4 output of a VCR for a test.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

There are also plenty of UHF analogs you should be able to get.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yeah, except my UHF antenna is pointing the exact opposite direction. I'm right between downtown and Lookout Mountain, so I'm pointing just about 180 degrees away from the UHF analogs.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yeah, except my UHF antenna is pointing the exact opposite direction. I'm right between downtown and Lookout Mountain, so I'm pointing just about 180 degrees away from the UHF analogs.


Then I should probably be one of Dish Network's beta testers for the 921. :sure:

I'm smack dab in the middle of all major networks broadcasting from Madison Wisconsin. Three miles away from CBS, UPN, ABC, FOX, PBS and two miles away from NBC & WB! :grin:

...my 921 still cannot receive any analog off-air signals by the way.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

I'm on my second 921 (the first was DOA) and am working with Dish Network's "Peter Dall & Mark Duffy" to get this one functioning so that it can receive local off-air channels.

I expect that I'll be receiving a third 921 to replace this one. Since receiving it, I have been unable to receive any off-air analog channels and the local off-air digital channels that I have been able to receive has gone from four of my five local (within ten miles) networks, to occassionally being able to receive only one of them.

The same off air antenna cable receives strong signals when connected directly to my 65" Mitsubish (as well as VCRs). I've moved my 811 to the same antenna lead and can receive four of the five off air DTV channels (the fifth has the 49% bug where the signal just can't lock) and all of the off air analog channels "strong & clear".

I've posted photos of the issue in the 921 support area of dbstalk.com.

The last thing I had heard was from Peter Dall, who told me to not waste my time troubleshooting and that he was certain of some sort of hardware problem. Pete was to get back to me on Friday but I haven't heard from him.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

> Jeff:
> 
> Rest assured that the problem is not with your 921. There is an issue on DISH's end that Engineering is working to resolve. Beta testing is being done right now. As soon as we can be sure it will not create other problems, we will release the fix.
> 
> Pete Dall


So I guess I wait for awhile.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Shouldn't you be trying to add DTV stations, not analog (ATV) .....

It keeps sounding like your on the wrong submenu of the 921 unless I misread something.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

ibglowin said:


> Shouldn't you be trying to add DTV stations, not analog (ATV) .....
> 
> It keeps sounding like your on the wrong submenu of the 921 unless I misread something.


Yes, you have misread something, but also, I may not have explained my case for having analog channels available.

My local DTV stations have been known to go off air for upgrades or due to hardware failure. Since digital transmission is still fairly new, I'd appreciate being able to have that option on my satellite receiver. The 8VSB tuner on my 6000 had no problem receiving both analog and digital off-air programming, my 811 is 95% okay with local channels.

Now the OTA tuner on my 921 seems to be getting worse. I cannot obtain a solid signal on even my off-air digital channels!

I would expect that a second (or is it third) generation 8VSB off-air tuner would be at least as good, if not _better _ than it's predecessor!

Given the fact that 8VSB has been working on earlier models, I'd expect that it would be easy for Dish to implement on the 921.

I hope that Dish can get this corrected before the Summer Olympics.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Just a thought, do you have a good preamp on your antenna?


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Well, 921 #3 arrived on Friday morning. I made a special run home to get it hooked up and initiate the latest firmware update.

Results? I arrived home to a fully fuctional 921? I very pleased to say that I am now receiving all off-air broadcasts (ATV & DTV)! I'm damn glad too, I was begining to second guess my troubleshooting but the replacement unit confirmed what I had suspected all along... DEFECTIVE 8VSB OTA MODULE!

I'm still a bit aprehensive that my good luck will turn sour. I actually had a dream where the 921's OTA channels went AWOL!

Anyway, it looks like I've finally got a winner! 

Mark (and other forum members)? Again, thanks for your efforts and many posts on behalf on the rest of us. So far I have not seen any of the problems with L186 listed by others. I'll keep an eye on my OTA channels to see if they stay put after nightly reboots.

I probably won't be posting as often around here, but I'll continue to monitor the threads and pop in from time to time when problems arise or in the event that I feel the need to voice an opinion on something.

Heading back down to watch some of last night's recordings!

Thanks again everyone!

Spence


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

SpenceJT said:


> Well, 921 #3 arrived on Friday morning. I made a special run home to get it hooked up and initiate the latest firmware update.
> 
> Results? I arrived home to a fully fuctional 921? I very pleased to say that I am now receiving all off-air broadcasts (ATV & DTV)! I'm damn glad too, I was begining to second guess my troubleshooting but the replacement unit confirmed what I had suspected all along... DEFECTIVE 8VSB OTA MODULE!
> 
> ...


Spence, what are the Boot and flash versions in Unit #3?


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

paulcdavis said:


> Spence, what are the Boot and flash versions in Unit #3?


Boot: 120B
Flash: 051
SW Version: L186HECD-N


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Glad to hear it Spence.


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