# 722 or 722K??



## Al_Chicago_DN

I will be adding HD channels tomorrow, and I'm getting a Dish Vip722. I was just looking online on Dishnetwrok.com and saw that they have 722 and a 722K. I searched many threads reading about the 722s only to get confused. On Dish Network online brochures it shows the 722 with the OTA tuner card, but in the forums it shows the opposite?!! 

I have the following questions:

1. Which 722 has the OTA tuner?

2. Is the OTA the only difference between the 722s? The online brochure shows different remotes (learning? remotes) on the 722k. Any one has experience with these remotes?

I hope the Dish Installer has both on the truck. I may need to call right away and ask them to bring the 722 I want.

Thanks...

Al


----------



## ChuckA

The 722 has one built in OTA tuner. The new 722k does not have a built in OTA tuner, but there is an add on card that has two OTA tuners. So, the 722k with the tuner card gives you an additional OTA tuner. I'm not sure if the 722k is shipping yet. It was to be out SOON for a while now. I have not heard it is available but maybe I have not looked in all the right places yet.


----------



## Ron Barry

- 722 has a OTA tuner built in and can record 3 HD/SD Streams (2 Sat/1 OTA) at once
- 722K has an optional OTA module (2 HD/SD Tuners) and two Sat Tuners. I believe it can record all four at once. the cost of the module I think is under 50 bucks. 

2. 722K has a learning remote as you indicated. Allows one to save their receiver settings I believe. 

3. 722K has just been released if I read the posts right. This means that stability wise the 722 most likely will be more stable but over time the 722K should stabilize if history is any indication. 

If you are going OTA... The 722K does provide that extra option but with the risk of possible less stability. It was reported that the 722K software does include the customizable groups. 

My recommendation.. Comes down to how flexible you are and your needs. If the slightest glitch causes you to Scream for hours, go with the 722 as it has had time to stabilize. If you are more open to bleading edge and want the extra OTA tuner.. 722K is the way to go.


----------



## Al_Chicago_DN

Ron Barry said:


> - 722 has a OTA tuner built in and can record 3 HD/SD Streams (2 Sat/1 OTA) at once
> - 722K has an optional OTA module (2 HD/SD Tuners) and two Sat Tuners. I believe it can record all four at once. the cost of the module I think is under 50 bucks.
> 
> 2. 722K has a learning remote as you indicated. Allows one to save their receiver settings I believe.
> 
> 3. 722K has just been released if I read the posts right. This means that stability wise the 722 most likely will be more stable but over time the 722K should stabilize if history is any indication.
> 
> If you are going OTA... The 722K does provide that extra option but with the risk of possible less stability. It was reported that the 722K software does include the customizable groups.
> 
> My recommendation.. Comes down to how flexible you are and your needs. If the slightest glitch causes you to Scream for hours, go with the 722 as it has had time to stabilize. If you are more open to bleading edge and want the extra OTA tuner.. 722K is the way to go.


It looks like the 722K has an "Optional" OTA card as you stated. I will take a chance on the 722K since it is the latest offering by Dish. If the installer has the OTA module, I will have him install it as well even if costs few extra bucks.


----------



## Ron Barry

Usually these guys don't carry a sample of the receivers that they will need with them. I would contact Dish and see if you can arrange what you want.


----------



## HobbyTalk

The 722k also allows you to watch OTA on TV2.


----------



## BattleZone

Al_Chicago_DN said:


> If the installer has the OTA module, I will have him install it as well even if costs few extra bucks.


Chances are very strong that the installer will NOT have an OTA module unless there is one listed on the work order. In other words, you'd need to order the OTA module when you order your 722k if you want the installer to bring it.


----------



## Al_Chicago_DN

IIP said:


> Chances are very strong that the installer will NOT have an OTA module unless there is one listed on the work order. In other words, you'd need to order the OTA module when you order your 722k if you want the installer to bring it.


I called Dish and asked for the 722K, but I didn't ask them to add the OTA module to the order. I can always install it myself later.


----------



## Chevy1965

The other difference is that the 722k does not have an S-Video out


----------



## tnsprin

Chevy1965 said:


> The other difference is that the 722k does not have an S-Video out


There are a bunch of other differences, such as using newer chipsets.


----------



## phrelin

Some of the differences for the end user can be discerned from the information accessible through the Dish Network Tech Portal Reciever page such as the additional coax out for OTA channels, though it raises more questions then it answers. More answers can be found at the Echostar Knowledge Base page.

If I could get OTA, there is no doubt in my mind that a 722k would be my choice in about September after the initial bugs are resolved and its at the Beta Tester level. In the long run, it might be my choice anyway. But not yet as I'm too old to be an Alpha Tester.


----------



## Papa Midnight

Actually, the 722 also allows you to use the "Learning Remotes" feature. I've stumbled upon it (accidentally) on a number of occasion.


----------



## gears4brains

I am on my second 722k, and I have had two different OTA modules for the 722k. I had two different 722 (not k) models since November of 2007 prior to making the mistake of upgrading (downgrading actually) to a 722k. I was able to get all of the local (Austin, TX) HD locally broadcast channels on either of the 722(not k) models very reliably and with minimal video/audio drop-out.

I cannot get an acceptable viewing experience on local channel 036-01 (NBC-HD) even though the signal strength is reported to be 85-90 by the 722k, and every other ATSC tuner TV in the house displays this same antenna feed in all of its HD glory. The 722k will show the Error-739 box about every 30 seconds while trying to display this channel, and the video and audio are continuously disrupted.

Local channel 007-01 (Fox-HD) and 018-01 (PBS-HD) are better but the recordings from these channels are unreliable. We are often only able to view a small portion of the recorded program - even though the recording list shows that the recording spans the full duration of the program.

I have fed the 722k the antenna signal with a direct connection to the antenna in my attic without any improvement. I can connect this antenna feed to either one of the two ATSC tuner HD TVs in the house with and without a coax splitter and the HD signal is beautiful.

The new 20.0 and 21.0 remotes for the 722k are cool and they work very well. I was able to make good use of the teach mode of the remote. It is neat how the settings for the remote are stored in the receiver as well as the remote. But due to the lack of s-video and unusable OTA performance; I do not want a 722k!

Last night, Dishnetwork finally agreed to send me a replacement 722 (not k).


----------



## fudpucker

Well that is disappointing - the bad report on the 722K. I'm a long time DirectTV subscriber but was tempted to try out Dish since I'm moving, hopefully this summer. But it appears I'll have to rely on OTA for my networks where I'll be moving, and if I can't record two network shows at once, well, that's pretty dysfunctional. When I read the 722 only had one OTA tuner, I decided that I'd have to stick with DirectTV and the HR-20 I've got. Then I got excited when I saw the 722K and the option for 2 OTA tuners (in addition to two sat tuners!) But if reception is poor, it's a no-go (I'll be living about 50 miles away from the stations.)


----------



## Geek4rent

Gears,
this is quite interesting I am having the same problem with my local HD's they have replaced 2 of the 722 and last week installed a 722K......I still get the errors and drop out, I can hook direct to my 42" olevia and watch all day and night and no drop outs.

tonight it was dropping again so I went to the local channels area and looked at the signal strength it was right at 88% would drop up and down to 77%...then suddenly drop to zero not locked then right back to 88% or so. When it drops I get the 739 error.


Also it will do the same thing on HD sat channels, it will say lost signal, but the catch is all you have to do is hit the guide button, the guide will come up and right back to the channel you were on.


normally as you know when you lose signal it goes through the steps, but not with this issue, 


so the same issue with a total of 4 722's 
1. the one I had
2. a replacement 722
3. another replacement 722
4 a 722k


sure makes ya wonder


----------



## Jim5506

It appears theat the internal split of the OTA signal on the 722K OTA module has considerable loss.

Do you have a Winegard HDP-269 available to boost the signal into the 722K, maybe that will help with the drop outs.


----------



## Geek4rent

no I have not tried an AMP, but that still does not explain the drop outs of the HD sat channels, and when they do drop out simply pushing the guide button brigs them back.

if you ask me dish has a hardware or software issue


----------



## Ron Barry

Geek4rent said:


> Gears,
> this is quite interesting I am having the same problem with my local HD's they have replaced 2 of the 722 and last week installed a 722K......I still get the errors and drop out, I can hook direct to my 42" olevia and watch all day and night and no drop outs.
> 
> tonight it was dropping again so I went to the local channels area and looked at the signal strength it was right at 88% would drop up and down to 77%...then suddenly drop to zero not locked then right back to 88% or so. When it drops I get the 739 error.
> 
> Also it will do the same thing on HD sat channels, it will say lost signal, but the catch is all you have to do is hit the guide button, the guide will come up and right back to the channel you were on.
> 
> normally as you know when you lose signal it goes through the steps, but not with this issue,
> 
> so the same issue with a total of 4 722's
> 1. the one I had
> 2. a replacement 722
> 3. another replacement 722
> 4 a 722k
> 
> sure makes ya wonder


One think to keep in mind.. Dish DVRs tend to be a bit more multi-path sensitive than other OTA receivers. Given that you are seeing this both on the 722 and 722K, I would suspect that you might have a multi-path issue with the Dish DVRs. Not all OTA are created equal and some are more pron to mulipath issues. Dish ones in the past have been.

I definitely try and external tweaking to see if you can get around this. Is your antenna a directional antenna? I am by no means an OTA expert. Lot of people here not 100 times more than I do, however in the past when people have described what you are describing it usually turns out to be multipathing.

One thing I always say and believe. OTA is an art and what may work in some conditions won't work in others.


----------



## Geek4rent

Ron Barry said:


> One think to keep in mind.. Dish DVRs tend to be a bit more multi-path sensitive than other OTA receivers. Given that you are seeing this both on the 722 and 722K, I would suspect that you might have a multi-path issue with the Dish DVRs. Not all OTA are created equal and some are more pron to mulipath issues. Dish ones in the past have been.
> 
> I definitely try and external tweaking to see if you can get around this. Is your antenna a directional antenna? I am by no means an OTA expert. Lot of people here not 100 times more than I do, however in the past when people have described what you are describing it usually turns out to be multipathing.
> 
> One thing I always say and believe. OTA is an art and what may work in some conditions won't work in others.


that is possible but no one still has an answer for the drop out issue on regular HD sat channels


----------



## Ron Barry

Well I have seen where OTA drop out has an effect on Dish Sats, but I can say this is the case. One way to verify is to remove your OTA, delete your OTA channels, and see if the problem disappears. 

Ofcourse we could be talking about two totally unrelated issues, but I would try to solve one and possible get lucky and the other one goes away.


----------



## Jimmy the Dish

Geek4rent said:


> that is possible but no one still has an answer for the drop out issue on regular HD sat channels


Since the lauch of ceil (new 129 bird) and the changing of channels and transponders on 129 it doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Jim5506

With the new 129 satellite you should have signal strengths in the 50's or 60's, if you do not, your dish needs to be re-peaked.

If you have good signal strenght readings and still experience dropouts, you either have a flaky lnb, a wiring problem or a faulty receiver.


----------



## tomkind80

Can I get a yea or nay on this please:

Had the 722k for about 2 weeks. Everything has worked perfect so far. Bought the OTA card for $40 from Dish, then I read this thread and another like it and got scared to put it in. If all is good so far, but I want the extra tuner should I put it in and hope or wait until E* fixes a bug? Appreciate the help on this and the insight throughout the site.

EDIT: I had a 622 for a couple of years and my HD OTAs worked great on it.


----------



## ChuckA

I believe the initial 722k does have an issue with OTA signal droping out on only specific channels, even when that channel has a good signal strength. I expect this will be corrected by software sooner than later. The module is easy to install so I would give it a try. If you have issues with it causing loss of signal on sat channels you can always remove it.


----------



## Mike Greer

I am considering a 722k becuase of the 2 ota tuners but maybe I'll wait a bit...

Is it possible to use all 4 tuners at the same time? I assume you can use at least 3 like the older receivers...

Thanks!


----------



## Ron Barry

My understanding is that you can use all 4 at one time.


----------



## ChuckA

4 at once.


----------



## Mike Greer

4 at a time is great!

Any word if someday you will be able to network multiple VIP DVRs to get some kind of common list of recordings and be able to play recordings from one DVR on another? Something like MRV that DirecTV has been working on for years but is still not yet ready?


----------



## ChuckA

You can sneakernet the EHD!


----------



## Mike Greer

Get outa here!

I was hoping for a more elegant solution. I'd like to be able to have 3 of them networked together and be able to play back content on any of them from any of them.

DirecTV will likely have a painfully slow version of this on the HR2X recievers sometime in 2020. Maybe 2018 if things go well.

The sneaker net is just so 80's!


----------



## ChuckA

Then put a Sling box on each one and watch from your laptop or cell phone no matter where you are! (That can get a broadband connection, that is.)


----------



## tomkind80

Thanks ChuckA. Ill try it soon and report what I find. Thanks again


----------



## TSR

ChuckA said:


> Then put a Sling box on each one and watch from your laptop or cell phone no matter where you are! (That can get a broadband connection, that is.)


You can sling them all, or if you want to just wait for the 922 which has the Slingbox technology built-in...


----------



## Mike Greer

Slinging content is great when you're on the road but it really isn't the solution for HD content from one room to another!


----------



## BattleZone

Mike Greer said:


> 4 at a time is great!
> 
> Any word if someday you will be able to network multiple VIP DVRs to get some kind of common list of recordings and be able to play recordings from one DVR on another? Something like MRV that DirecTV has been working on for years but is still not yet ready?


Keep in mind that there has to be a limit somewhere of what the boxes can do. Currently, the receivers can potentially be recording 5 HD streams (2 sat + 2 OTA + 1 Internet download), plus playing back 2. That's got to be maxing out hard drive throughput, or pretty close. If you started trying to add networked playback to all that, I think you'd likely be exceeding the limits of that hard drive throughput. In designing a receiver, you must always test for the worst case scenario, which is currently 7 streams in and out of the drive. That's already a lot to ask.


----------



## roller11

I'm in the Mountain time zone so I really, really need at least two OTA tuners to negate the 'overlap' problem. So to be able to record 4 progs at once is huge ..... (2x OTA, 2x sat). Has anyone tested this? Does it work?


----------



## BobaBird

Yes, people have reported success using the 722k to record SATx2 and OTAx2 at the same time. See posts 26-28.


----------



## roller11

BattleZone said:


> Keep in mind that there has to be a limit somewhere of what the boxes can do. Currently, the receivers can potentially be recording 5 HD streams (2 sat + 2 OTA + 1 Internet download), plus playing back 2. That's got to be maxing out hard drive throughput, or pretty close. If you started trying to add networked playback to all that, I think you'd likely be exceeding the limits of that hard drive throughput. In designing a receiver, you must always test for the worst case scenario, which is currently 7 streams in and out of the drive. That's already a lot to ask.


If you do the math, seven streams would not be close to using all the bandwidth of a modern HD. Theoretically, 20 steams would be possible given 100% effeciency.

Please explain 'internet download'. I've never heqard of this.


----------



## roller11

Mike Greer said:


> 4 at a time is great!
> 
> Any word if someday you will be able to network multiple VIP DVRs to get some kind of common list of recordings and be able to play recordings from one DVR on another? Something like MRV that DirecTV has been working on for years but is still not yet ready?


It kills me that Dish puts resources into an utterly worthless feature like 
'dual TV', yet a really great feature like networking gets no traction at all.
Dual TV , with it's TV2 low definition output, is the ugliest, lowest resolution, worst PQ that is technically possible. As such,
it is so hideous nobody could stand to watch it.
But networking, that would be a dream come true. I have 622s in
multiple rooms, so I am always juggling tuners and box capacity.
It would be great to record a prog in the den which has the lesser TV, and watch it in the main viewing room with 8 channel surround sound and a 67" screen. Or do the opposite because my wife is entertaining her friends in the room where I have recorded '24', so I want to watch it in the den. Having the convenience of choosing which room to watch a playback with no regard to which box has the recording would be huge. 
I currently have a seperate home theater computer servicing each of the TVs
in my house, they are connected together with 1 Giga bit network, so I can watch any Blu ray rip on any computer in any location. Can't tell you how nice it is having that kind of flexibility.


----------



## lujan

roller11 said:


> ...
> 
> Please explain 'internet download'. I've never heqard of this.


I think the poster is referring to "Dish Online".


----------



## Mike Greer

roller11 said:


> It kills me that Dish puts resources into....


I aggree on the networking part would be huge! I can't imagine why they don't already have this going.

As far as having 2 TV control - I had a 625 running two kids rooms and it worked great and I didn't have to pay for another receiver on my account.

I say go for both! The 2nd TV output is a done deal so let's get the networking working!

Ideally I'd like to see the receivers all work together and not make me decide what box records what... Why not have 3 722k for a total of 6 sat tuners and 6 OTA tuners all networked together. I pick what I want to record and let the receivers decide what tuners to use and where it gets recorded. All I want to do is to be able to watch the recording form any of the 3 locations.

Too much to ask?


----------



## BattleZone

roller11 said:


> If you do the math, seven streams would not be close to using all the bandwidth of a modern HD. Theoretically, 20 steams would be possible given 100% effeciency.


Don't be fooled into believing that the theoretical maximum speed of the interface (i.e., 3 Gb/s) is the actual speed of the drive, especially when it is reading and writing from multiple threads simultaneously. All that seeking really slows down total throughput.


----------

