# Intermittent signal loss on HGTV, TLC, DIY



## jhill3264 (Aug 20, 2007)

I have a Series 2, RCA DVR-40 that has been giving me signal problems on just a few channels - TLC(280), HGTV(229) and DIY(230) for about 2 months now. Other channels from the 101 sat, including my locals, do not seem to be affected at all. I also have two older SD Hughes receivers in two other rooms of the house, that from what I can tell, are also unaffected. I've even tried watching one of the other TVs on the same channel and had my wife yell to me when it "starts" and I did not notice any breakup on the other TVs. I can't say for sure whether any channels on the 119 or 110 sat are affected, but I haven't noticed any. I also have the Sat C. option, if that makes any difference.

Actually, I don't know that it is truly a sat signal problem, or if it's something else. The picture breaks up, pixelated, sometimes just areas of the screen or the whole thing. It looks a lot like a typical rain fade type problem. If I change to the other tuner (and the same channel) it also has the same break up. Changing to one of my locals, or some other channel, there is no breakup. I never get the "searching for satellite" on either tuner during these occurrences, so I'm not really losing the entire satellite signal.

I've checked the signal levels for all transponders on the 101 sat, for all receivers. For the most part, they are all very close, but specifically for transponders 16 (HGTV), 17 (TLC), and 32 (DIY), the DirecTIVO signals are higher than the other receivers. I've tried to go into the "sat signal test" when I start to notice the break up, but by the time I get there, it always shows a good signal.

I'm not even sure where to start diagnosing this. It's almost like there is something about those channels that make the signal decoder work "harder" in the DirecTIVO than the other receivers. I know that sounds whacked, but I'm grasping here.

Any ideas? Any better ways to narrow this down?


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## schmuckler (Aug 6, 2007)

I have also been experiencing a similar problem since the beginning of the summer (May/June-ish). I have an older Hughes HDVR2 model with TIVO. I first noticed my problem on HBO 501 and seems to have spread to a few other transponders. The weird thing is, the problem is not always present (ie picture pixelating, staggering, hesitating), but seems to more often than not. I have narrowed this down to transponders 23, 24, 27, 32. I have of course done the usual reboot, take the card in and out of the slot, etc. My dish is high upon the roof without any visible changes in orientation. There are large trees in the area that continue their growth but I don't think that is the issue. When I check satellite signal strength, I do get dropout, with the little bars going to zero, on satellite 2 signal when I am on transponder 32 (always), 27 & 23 sometimes.

Is this a satellite problem (orientation, tree, lnb) or receiver issue. I don't mean to hog your question but I think we have similar issues.

Adam


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## jhill3264 (Aug 20, 2007)

schmuckler said:


> Is this a satellite problem (orientation, tree, lnb) or receiver issue.
> Adam


That's pretty much the starting point, I don't really know which area to focus on. If orientation or interference is the problem, I would expect that it would affect all transponders for a particular sat equally. (I don't know if that is true, someone please correct me). I would also expect that it would affect all receivers equally. As much as I can tell, I'm only affected on the DVR.

That leads me to think that there is something about the DVR. Maybe I do have a signal degradation that happens to all receivers, but maybe the DVR is more susceptible. I've started going the path I've seen in other threads about the S-VIDEO causing issues with TUNER2. My symptoms are different in that it seems to affect both tuners - and I'm not using S-VIDEO. However, I am using *both* composite Video Outs. But the theory is plausible. Signal interference and component loading can create some very unpredictable problems in electronics. I suppose it's even possible that certain combinations of cables (terminated, non-terminated) might affect the signals received from different transponders differently. Again, I don't know if this is true, if someone can explain why this does not make sense, please correct me.

For the last two nights, I've been running with just one set of Video Out connected. Unfortunately, she who controls the remote did not watch much programming on the channels in question, but of the times that I switched over to look for a few minutes, I did not see any issues. It's promising, but as with all "intermittent" issues, it may take some time to prove or disprove.


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## schmuckler (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for your thoughts. My problem occurs at all times, not just when I am using the DVR function. After searching through this site, I will change my output from S-video to composite. I will be surprised if that fixes the problem. Also, I will switch the Ant. 1 and 2 around to see if this changes anything. I will also look put the same program on both tuners. These are things I didn't know to check before. Have you repeated the guided set up and/or changed to 1 tuner? I was scared to try this. Most comments make it sound like no big deal. I only have 1 TV in the house so I am not splitting lines around. Finally, my rig has been functional and without problems since 10/03. This issue is the first real problem I have had with it.


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## jhill3264 (Aug 20, 2007)

Actually, you're always using the DVR function, even when you're watching "Live TV", so I'm not sure there's a difference. But, it sounds like yours occurs more consistently than mine, so it should be easier to track down. Especially if you do find it to be happening only on Tuner 2.

Normally, you don't really pick Tuner 1 or Tuner 2, it just uses whichever is needed depending on the scheduling. I didn't know you could put the same program on both tuners - how do you do that?

When I would notice the problem (on whichever Tuner) I would quickly change the channel to something else, then switch tuners and select the problem channel again (this time using the other tuner) and I was usually able to see it still pixelating. That lead me to think that I was looking at something that was not tuner specific.

It will be interesting to see if the S-VIDEO fixes your problem. Try not to change too many things at once, else you may have a hard time determine what really fixes it.


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## schmuckler (Aug 6, 2007)

After a lovely evening out with the misses taking in "The Bourne Ultimatum," I excitedly put the wife to bed and started playing around. This is what I learned:
1. Switching the satellite feeds into the receiver did not fix the problem. Break-up still encountered with sat 2. In fact, tonight I got the dread "searching for signal on sat 2" message bouncing in and out.
2. Playing around with tuners allowed me to see the picture on, for example, COM 249 was fine with one tuner but not the other. And you are correct that the DVR does not allow the two tuners to be on the same station at once.
3. Changing from S-video to composite....ha ha ha....I knew that wouldn't work.
4. Repeated guided setup with same settings: no change either.
5. Repeated guided setup as one tuner only: NO dropouts now. 

Lessons learned: Satellite ok, LNBs theoretically fine, cabling ok. Satellite 2 in receiver seems to be dead. OK, I'm bummed, but can live with that for now. We usually record to skip commercials anyway, so I can still record one and watch at the same time. Also, I just got a new computer that can record OTA hi def as back up.

Looming issue remains how to tackle Hi Def: Upgrade all D*TV equipment including receiver and dish, or just change house over to FIOS for superfast internet as opposed to DSL, TV (although fewer hi def channels) and VOIP. On the one hand, I have been generally happy with satellite. But I am not big into special sports to get extra Hi Def channels. I have spent too much money this past year and must take a chill pill. Thanks for your input. Hope you resolve your issues.

Adam


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## jhill3264 (Aug 20, 2007)

I've determined that my problems was just another variation of the video connections affecting the second Tuner.:eek2: 

After a few days of having both video outs connected and no "apparent" problems, I had almost convinced myself that magic satellite fairies had heard my cries and simply "fixed" the problem for me. But last night, while watching pre-season football, and recording TLC (presumably on the 2nd tuner) the problem returned with a vengeance. When we went to watch the shows, they were almost completely unwatchable.  Unfortunately, since it was recorded, I couldn't really "try" any connections to see if I could make any difference.

This morning, everything must have aligned just right. I was watching TV when I saw the "searching for sat on Sat2" message a couple of times. I switched to Tuner2 and it had spontaneously changed to channel 201. It was doing the familiar pixelated breakup, so I knew I had my chance to try something. I went to the sat signal strength screen. Tuner 2 was at 92, but would drop to 0 for a second, every 5-10 seconds. I disconnected the 2nd video out. Tuner 2 signal stayed at 90-02. I reconnected the 2nd video out. Tuner 2 signal faltered to 80, then to 50, then dropped to 0, then back to 90, then back to 0, ...etc.

This was proof enough for me - I could finally see a direct correlation between video connections and the sat signal on Tuner 2. I tried swapping the 2 video outs, and it did not matter what was connected to either one - as long as BOTH video outs were connected, the signal on Tuner 2 was erratic. And only Tuner 2 was affected. Previously, I had thought that it affected both Tuners, but now I'm not sure of that. It's hard to tell "which" tuner you're actually using.

I'll have to come up with a different way to get my video signal to the other TVs, but at least I know how to avoid the problem. If it hadn't been for the other posts about the S-VIDEO problem, I probably never would have suspected this. Thanks to the community for posting their experiences.

Jim


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## schmuckler (Aug 6, 2007)

Fascinating.

I had not considered this possibility. I have S-video out to my stereo receiver (then tv) and the other video out to my vcr for taping (which I almost never use.) We have different receivers but who knows. I think I will remove the second video out and see what happens. I'm only wasting 30 more minutes of my life on this!

Adam


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## schmuckler (Aug 6, 2007)

EUREKA!!!

Your thoughts are genius. I finally had the time this evening to take out my video 2 out from the back. I repeated the satellite setup for 2 sats/tuners...and, voila: satellite works on both tuner 1 and 2. I did not see any dropouts on any of the usual suspect stations. Also, satellite strength was equal and constant on both tuners running through the transponder list. Transponder 32 always dropped to 0 every few seconds, but with the second video out no longer engaged, full signal, steady at 93. Finally, following Koch's Postulates, I replugged video 2 composite cord back in and failure immediately ensued. My wife is still wondering what all the who ha downstairs is about. So my older Hughes HDVR2 must have the same circuitry/components as your device. I wonder why it took nearly 4 years for this problem to occur? I still do have S-video hooked up at this time. Oh well, ours is not to reason why...

Thank you!
Adam


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## Flyboy917 (Oct 25, 2003)

Right on the money....but with standard video, not s-video. I had bought a DVD recorder two weeks ago and started seeing pixilization and drop outs. Past few days it had gotten horrible. I went and pulled the second set of video line out, and walla! Works perfect. Who would have thunk it!


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## The Keymaster (Jan 30, 2008)

I just corrected the same issue on my HDVR2. I was using the S Video output and the composite video output at the same time. As soon as I disconnected the composite the issue went away. Funny thing, my unit would only exhibit the issue when both tuners were on a local channel. Transponders 24,25,26 and 27 were affected.


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