# 2010 NFL Discussion



## JACKIEGAGA

Well with football preseason games starting Im getting the itch.
We can discuss the NFL Season here.


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## john1117

Cowboys have the talent to win it this year.


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## JACKIEGAGA

All teams have dreams of a SuperBowl victory


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## sigma1914

john1117 said:


> Cowboys have the talent to win it this year.


Yet still no coach or leadership. Same story, different year.


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## JACKIEGAGA

sigma1914 said:


> Yet still no coach or leadership. Same story, different year.


I thought Jerry Jones was the coach :lol:


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## john1117

You guys are funny. Watch and weep!


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## Stewart Vernon

My early favorites are, in no particular order...

New Orleans
Indianapolis
Green Bay
San Diego

My 2nd tier would be:

New York Jets
Cincinnati
Dallas
Washington

I can't rate Minnesota yet until Brett decides. IF he comes back and is healthy, I'd put them in the top group... if not, then I'd put them in my 2nd group.

Of course everything is subject to injury and general last-to-first weirdness that happens almost every year lately.


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## JACKIEGAGA

I dont think the Jets are going anywhere


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## sigma1914

I'll be pulling for my 4 teams...*Colts, Giants, Ravens, & Falcons*.

My SB picks...If Favre plays, then Vikings vs. Jets. If no Favre, then Saints vs. Jets. Jets winning it all.


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## mjm76

*Go Rams!*


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## joshjr

sigma1914 said:


> I'll be pulling for my 4 teams...*Colts, Giants, Ravens, & Falcons*.
> 
> My SB picks...If Favre plays, then Vikings vs. Jets. If no Favre, then Saints vs. Jets. Jets winning it all.


I dont see the Jets winning it all this year. As a matter of fact Im not even convinced that they will win their division. We will see though. They better get Revis signed.


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## sigma1914

joshjr said:


> I dont see the Jets winning it all this year. As a matter of fact Im not even convinced that they will win their division. We will see though. They better get Revis signed.


Their defense got *better *& defense wins championships. Sanchez just needs to manage the games, not throw a lot.


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## joshjr

sigma1914 said:


> Their defense got *better *& defense wins championships. Sanchez just needs to manage the games, not throw a lot.


They still need Revis and dont be so quick to count out the Pats. I still think New England will win that division.


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## tgater

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I thought Jerry Jones was the coach :lol:


2nd


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## tgater

Jack, are you a ticket holder? I've been hounded by the sales department all week. 7,500 for the PSL and 4,000 for the first season per seat.


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## hdtvfan0001

Just glad to see the season getting started again....running low on Pepto with baseball, NBA, and soccer the only things for months now...welcome back America's sport.


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## JACKIEGAGA

tgater said:


> Jack, are you a ticket holder? I've been hounded by the sales department all week. 7,500 for the PSL and 4,000 for the first season per seat.


I got rid of my seat this year I wasnt going to pay the PSL. They are getting the PSL twice once from the Giants and once from the Jets


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## greatwhitenorth

sigma1914 said:


> Their defense got *better *& defense wins championships. Sanchez just needs to manage the games, not throw a lot.


"Defense wins championships", just ask the Saints! :lol::lol::lol:


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## sigma1914

greatwhitenorth said:


> "Defense wins championships", just ask the Saints! :lol::lol::lol:


Umm it did. Remember the INT returned for a TD when Indy was driving to tie it in the 4th? They held Indy to 17 points...so, yes...Defense wins championships.


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## dave29

Preseason sucks....

The NFL needs to take 2 pre-season games away and add 2 games to the regular season.


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## JACKIEGAGA

dave29 said:


> Preseason sucks....
> 
> The NFL needs to take 2 pre-season games away and add 2 games to the regular season.


I agree I rather have more Football


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## sigma1914

dave29 said:


> Preseason sucks....
> 
> The NFL needs to take 2 pre-season games away and add 2 games to the regular season.





JACKIEGAGA said:


> I agree I rather have more Football


Preseason football is like popcorn left in the microwave too long. When it's nearing its optimal level of cookedness, the anticipation from the smell goes up. Then, a few minutes later, you get the burned smell, and you remember how something that seemed so great just a few minutes earlier, is now nowhere near as good as you'd expected.


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## MysteryMan

Pre and Post season games are a waste. Players arn't going to risk injuries, a season or careers for these games.


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## greatwhitenorth

sigma1914 said:


> Umm it did. Remember the INT returned for a TD when Indy was driving to tie it in the 4th? They held Indy to 17 points...so, yes...Defense wins championships.


The only game all year they played "D"! They had a mediocre at best defense all year. Not knocking the Saints, kudos to them and all that, I'm just saying you don't have to have a 1985 Bears or a 2000 Ravens defense to win it all anymore. Only 1 way to win a football game, and that's to score more points than the other team, and I think you'll see more teams like the Saints who just march up and down the field, and don't really worry about how many points the other team gets. The NFL is changing, and it sould be an interesting season.


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## ycebar

My prediction for the Super Bowl is a rematch of last nights game. Bengals and Cowboys with the Cowboys winning it all


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## sigma1914

greatwhitenorth said:


> The only game all year they played "D"! They had a mediocre at best defense all year. Not knocking the Saints, kudos to them and all that, I'm just saying you don't have to have a 1985 Bears or a 2000 Ravens defense to win it all anymore. Only 1 way to win a football game, and that's to score more points than the other team, and I think you'll see more teams like the Saints who just march up and down the field, and don't really worry about how many points the other team gets. The NFL is changing, and it sould be an interesting season.


I was curious if offense or defense had better success, so I checked the numbers.

Of the top 12 NFL for Total Defense (which is yards allowed) in 2009, 8 made the playoffs. Interestingly, 8 of the top 12 Offenses made the playoffs.


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## JACKIEGAGA

sigma1914 said:


> I was curious if offense or defense had better success, so I checked the numbers.
> 
> Of the top 12 NFL for Total Defense (which is yards allowed) in 2009, 8 made the playoffs. Interestingly, 8 of the top 12 Offenses made the playoffs.


I guess its 50-50 :lol:


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## ARKDTVfan

sigma1914 said:


> Yet still no coach or leadership. Same story, different year.


QFT

there will be more college teams winning games in Cowboys Stadium than the home NFL team


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## sigma1914

ARKDTVfan said:


> QFT
> 
> there will be more college teams winning games in Cowboys Stadium than the home NFL team


Any idea who (college) all plays there this year?


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## JACKIEGAGA

10 days and the Jets still dont have Revis


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## ARKDTVfan

sigma1914 said:


> Any idea who (college) all plays there this year?


Arkansas/Texas A&M and also TCU/Oregon State
I think just those 2 games


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## yosoyellobo

JACKIEGAGA said:


> 10 days and the Jets still dont have Revis


Maybe if the owners stop giving players these five or six years contract that they have no intention of honoring they would not so many problem. First year players contract should be for a maximum of three years.


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## Stewart Vernon

In a perfect world there would be a rookie salary cap and contracts would only be for 2 years at first... then players who prove their value would get new contracts for more (actual guaranteed) money as they go.

Also... in a perfect world... Emmit Smith (for example) would have been underpaid in his early years because he was young, new, and risky... but because he would have so outperformed that... in his final years he should have been way overpaid even if he didn't play as much.

I'd be fine with a situation that takes care of the older veterans who earned their coin in their younger playing days... but the way it works, if you don't get your money up front you probably will not see it once you can't play as well... which means you may never get what you earned on the field, so you better try and get as much as you can whether you've earned it yet or not.


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## Dave

On Sept. 2 preseason, Verizon will have the first NFL 3D game. It is the Giants and Patriots. Of course you need to have Verizon Fios to see it in 3D. 
I would have thought DirectV would have made a deal with someone to carry this. D is gearing up for 3D TV.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Verizion Fios is pushing 3D content?


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## JACKIEGAGA

If anyone wants in Yahoo NFL Pro Pickem
Here is the link
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=182136


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## john1117

Just signed up- thanks!


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## yosoyellobo

The San Francisco at Indianapolis preseason games is being black out in the Jacksonville area. Why beside we can are they doing this?


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## Stewart Vernon

yosoyellobo said:


> The San Francisco at Indianapolis preseason games is being black out in the Jacksonville area. Why beside we can are they doing this?


Who is blacking it out and on what channel?

I'm watching it right now in Raleigh, NC on the NFL Network.

The only reason it would be blacked out on NFL Network would be if it were also on a local OTA channel in the area for the two teams playing in the game.


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## yosoyellobo

The first twenty minutes or so were black out nationwide. Was discuss here
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=182673


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## JACKIEGAGA

yosoyellobo said:


> The San Francisco at Indianapolis preseason games is being black out in the Jacksonville area. Why beside we can are they doing this?


Who won


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## yosoyellobo

San Francisco 37 to 17.


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## stevenv

Tim Tebow makes his debut tonight vs. Cincinnati.


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## Stewart Vernon

yosoyellobo said:


> The first twenty minutes or so were black out nationwide. Was discuss here
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=182673


Sounds like it was a DirecTV thing, then... I'm on Dish and the game was on when I tuned to it. I'm not aware of a blackout.


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## JACKIEGAGA

What are predictions for this years SuperBowl 

Im going wth Giants and Bengals or Chargers


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## sigma1914

JACKIEGAGA said:


> What are predictions for this years SuperBowl
> 
> Im going wth Giants and Bengals or Chargers


I'll be pulling for my 4 teams...*Colts, Giants, Ravens, & Falcons*.

My SB picks...Vikings vs. Jets. Vikes winning it all.


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## JACKIEGAGA

At least you have my Giants in there


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## Dave

Owners meeting today talked about extending the 2012 season to: GET READY 18 GAMES. Yes this was the big and longest talk from the owners meeting today Aug. 25, 2010. A 18 game season. NFL 2012 could be the year it happens.


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## Davenlr

Wonder how many uninjured players will be left after that?


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## yosoyellobo

How would the extra two games affect the time it takes a player to be vested? Now I believe it is three and a half years.


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## Stewart Vernon

Personally, I'm fine with 16 games both from an entertainment standpoint AND understanding how grueling it is to play all of those games. I'd even like to see them go from 4/5 pre-season to 2/3 to cut down on those injuries as well.

BUT... we all know the NFL (nor any other corporation) would throw away money by eliminating even pre-season games... so I think we are in when-not-if territory.

I hope that when they go to 18 games they also do the following:

1. Drop at least 2 pre-season games to make up for some of the wear/tear on the athletes.

2. Expand to a 20 week season, giving 2 "bye" weeks to each team.

One of the oddities the way the schedule works now is that some teams get a "bye" early while others get one late... and while injuries are part of the game, some non-injured teams get rest early in the season when they don't yet need it while other teams get rest late in the season to refresh.

One plus for the players in an 18-game season with my proposed 2-bye-week scenario would be that the "byes" could be scheduled so that all teams get an early-season bye and a late-season bye. Still there would be some inequality to it the way it would have to be spread out BUT at least it would be an improvement over the way it is now.


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## Stewart Vernon

yosoyellobo said:


> How would the extra two games affect the time it takes a player to be vested? Now I believe it is three and a half years.


I would hope that the players would ask for it to stay the same number of regular season games to become vested...

So if it is 3.5 years for 16 games, then it would become just slightly over 3 (3.11111) years to vest.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Does anyone know who was calling the pre-season game Cowboys-Texans with Phil Simms?


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## stevenv

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Does anyone know who was calling the pre-season game Cowboys-Texans with Phil Simms?


Gus Johnson.


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## hdtvfan0001

Interesting week for the "getting ready for the start of the season" games:

Packers roll
Colts Get thumped big time
Cowboys get thumped and look pathetic
Cards and Bears don't find offense
Saints keep marching
Vikings win against medicre team and despite their own big shortcomings
Browns, Bengals, Jets, Raiders all have multiple key injuries

Lots of teams have lots of work to do. Some preseason favorites are floundering in big ways.

Interesting times coming up this week with the first big cuts.


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## JACKIEGAGA

stevenv said:


> Gus Johnson.


Thanks


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## yosoyellobo

Was the Tampa-Jacksonville game broadcast in HD in the Tampa area. I was not in Jacksonville.


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## Stewart Vernon

You can't judge the preseason games on much of anything. Sometimes a standout rookie impresses... or a major star gets injured... but other than that, almost nothing about the preseason reflects on the regular season.

I forget who it was a few years ago (coach) who talked about being "champion of the preseason" and how it meant absolutely nothing.

Not too long ago the Colts had a winless preseason and then ran off their first 10 games or so of the season undefeated.


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## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> You can't judge the preseason games on much of anything. Sometimes a standout rookie impresses... or a major star gets injured... but other than that, almost nothing about the preseason reflects on the regular season.
> 
> I forget who it was a few years ago (coach) who talked about being "champion of the preseason" and how it meant absolutely nothing.
> 
> Not too long ago the Colts had a winless preseason and then ran off their first 10 games or so of the season undefeated.


There's been enough to see which teams have major holes and which ones don't. The example you gave is a 1 in a 100 exception to that experience.

What is true is that corrections can still be made - trades, pickups from the waiver wire, injury replacements, rebounds by a few players, and a few newbie surprises that surface out of the weeds. Those things make forecasting much more difficult. But there's no doubt the Cowboys, Colts, Bears, Cards, and a few others have some real unplanned problems to overcome.

That could happen, but we saw tons of players and coaches with plenty of worry on their faces after this week's play. Oh and yes - the 3rd game of the preseason *does* matter, and it tends to create the first major cut list.


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## sigma1914

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...But there's no doubt the Cowboys, Colts, Bears, Cards, and a few others have some real unplanned problems to overcome.
> ...


What are the Colts "problems?" The Colts are still high on lists of _experts_. The Cards knew they'd have no QB or WR depth. The Cowboys are questionable every year. The Bears aren't even a threat, much like the Cards.

As for whether preseason indicates success, here's some numbers:
http://www.tornbysports.com/nfl-preseason/


> I examined the last three preseason's of the NFL to see if there was any correlation between the records a team reached in the preseason, to the final regular season record.
> ...
> 0 Wins= Those teams that won no games in the preseason on average won 6.94 games during the regular season.
> 
> 1 Win= Those teams that won exactly 1 preseason game did almost exactly one game better during the regular season; They won on average 7.93 games during the regular season.
> 
> 2 Wins= Those teams winning two preseason games won on average 8.37 games during the regular season again an improvement from those that won one game.
> 
> 3 Wins= Those winning three games did only slightly better (than those teams winning two games) winning 8.39 regular season games.
> 
> 4 Wins= Here is where it gets interesting to me. Those winning 4 preseason games only won on average 5.66 games during the regular season.


http://www.twominutewarning.com/preseason-matter.htm


> Our data sample covers the seasons from 1997 to 2005...
> * Preseason wins are generally a positive sign for a team
> * Good teams can succeed regardless of their preseason, but see less dropoff in wins with better exhibition results
> * Average teams are much better prospects if they post three or more preseason wins


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## hdtvfan0001

sigma1914 said:


> What are the Colts "problems?" The Colts are still high on lists of _experts_.


Lack of bench depth, high proportion of older players than many other teams.


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## Stewart Vernon

The problem with pre-season, in terms of gauging regular season performance is multi-fold, in my opinion:

1. Starters/stars don't try as hard because pre-season doesn't count, they don't want to be injured, they don't want to give anything away to opponents too early, and they already know they have made the team.

2. Rookies, conversely, try harder in pre-season because they don't want to get cut.

3. Coaches don't want to give anything away either... also, will go for 4th downs in pre-season just to try something out OR will not go for a tie/win late in the game because the game doesn't count like it would in the regular season.

So... they don't "play to win the game" like in the regular season... Starters will play MUCH harder in regular season games... Rookies might actually have a let-down or hit the rookie-wall in the regular season once the pressure of making the team is over... and Coaches want to win in the regular season, don't care in the pre-season.

Think of last season, where the Colts started 14-0, then lost their last 2 games because they no longer were trying to win... then went to the Superbowl and lost a closely contested game.

Those 2 games they "gave" away because of being meaningless are very much like preseason games... and clearly were not at all indicative of the rest of the Colts' season.

Injuries matter in pre-season... as do rookies making the team (or not)... but almost everything else about any preseason game is useless to extrapolate to how that team will play the regular season.

To go the other way... I'm pretty sure one of the Carolina Panthers' recent 8-8 or worse seasons followed a 4-0 preseason.

The good teams that know what they have, don't care... The bad teams might get wins playing against those teams... but when the regular season starts and everything matters, the cream rises to the top.


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## hdtvfan0001

Seems some folks are confusing their Fantasy Football leagues with the real ones... :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seems some folks are confusing their Fantasy Football leagues with the real ones... :lol:


That sounds more like what you are doing, actually... assuming regular season will follow from pre-season performance.

FYI, another good example...

I'm pretty sure the year Detroit went 0-16 was a year that they went 4-0 in the pre-season. That obviously did not help them when the games counted.


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## sigma1914

Stewart Vernon said:


> That sounds more like what you are doing, actually... assuming regular season will follow from pre-season performance.
> 
> FYI, another good example...
> 
> I'm pretty sure the year Detroit went 0-16 was a year that they went 4-0 in the pre-season. That obviously did not help them when the games counted.


You're right about Detroit. 
Here's the preseason records of the last 11 Super Bowl champions:
2009 - NO - 3-1
2008 - PIT - 3-1
2007 - NYG - 4-0
2006 - IND - 1-3
2005 - PIT - 3-1
2004 - NE - 1-3
2003 - NE - 4-0
2002 - TB - 3-1
2001 - NE - 3-1
2000 - BAL - 4-0
1999 - STL - 3-1


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## hdtvfan0001

sigma1914 said:


> You're right about Detroit.
> Here's the preseason records of the last 11 Super Bowl champions:
> 2009 - NO - 3-1
> 2008 - PIT - 3-1
> 2007 - NYG - 4-0
> 2006 - IND - 1-3
> 2005 - PIT - 3-1
> 2004 - NE - 1-3
> 2003 - NE - 4-0
> 2002 - TB - 3-1
> 2001 - NE - 3-1
> 2000 - BAL - 4-0
> 1999 - STL - 3-1


Contrary to a few defensiveposter spins on the subject....this seems to further validate that preseason *DOES* matter 9 of the past 11 years, as far as showing a team headed in the right direction for the Super Bowl.

Sorry guys....some of your teams are already in trouble this year.


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## sigma1914

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Contrary to a few defensiveposter spins on the subject....this seems to further validate that preseason *DOES* matter 9 of the past 11 years, as far as showing a team headed in the right direction for the Super Bowl.
> 
> Sorry guys....some of your teams are already in trouble this year.


You're the only person who thinks Indy is in trouble. :lol:
Did you miss this?
http://www.tornbysports.com/nfl-preseason/


> I examined the last three preseason's of the NFL to see if there was any correlation between the records a team reached in the preseason, to the final regular season record.
> ...
> 0 Wins= Those teams that won no games in the preseason on average won 6.94 games during the regular season.
> 
> 1 Win= Those teams that won exactly 1 preseason game did almost exactly one game better during the regular season; They won on average 7.93 games during the regular season.
> 
> 2 Wins= Those teams winning two preseason games won on average 8.37 games during the regular season again an improvement from those that won one game.
> 
> 3 Wins= Those winning three games did only slightly better (than those teams winning two games) winning 8.39 regular season games.
> 
> 4 Wins= Here is where it gets interesting to me. Those winning 4 preseason games only won on average 5.66 games during the regular season.


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## Boston_bill

As a Patriots fan I cant stand the Jets. They have potential to be the biggest flop this year.


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## sigma1914

Boston_bill said:


> As a Patriots fan I cant stand the Jets. They have potential to be the biggest flop this year.


Flop? As in going undefeated then losing the Super Bowl? :lol:


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan

Boston_bill said:


> As a Patriots fan I cant stand the Jets. They have potential to be the biggest flop this year.


Well, they finally got Revis signed. Biggest mistakes they made were acquiring LT & Cromartie. I'm a Chargers season ticket holder and have seen every down those two have played. LT has lost a two steps and Cro had only one good season.

BTW, those of you attending Jets games this season, watch what Cromartie does while the play comes in sidelines for the defense. He's always, and I mean ALWASY about 10-15 yards away from the defensive huddle. He's not talking to the coaches either. He'll just stand there, hands on hips.


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## sigma1914

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Well, they finally got Revis signed. Biggest mistakes they made were acquiring LT & Cromartie. I'm a Chargers season ticket holder and have seen every down those two have played. LT has lost a two steps and Cro had only one good season.
> 
> BTW, those of you attending Jets games this season, watch what Cromartie does while the play comes in sidelines for the defense. He's always, and I mean ALWASY about 10-15 yards away from the defensive huddle. He's not talking to the coaches either. He'll just stand there, hands on hips.


Neither were signed to be #1s...LT was signed to give Greene rests. Cro was signed to compliment Revis.

Most corners don't waste energy going to the huddle when their job is to sick the WR. Watch old games of the best cover CB ever, Deion, & you'll see him do the same.


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## hdtvfan0001

It sure didn't take long for Leinert to catch on somewhere else....Texans.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Jets are overated!


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## Stewart Vernon

The NFL is really hard to pick in modern times... because even good teams that return all of their players don't always play as good the next season.

Look at New England, for example...

The year Brady got his first Superbowl... the following year they were something like 9-7 and didn't even make the playoffs I don't believe.

Then the mostly same team goes and wins back-to-back in the Superbowl.

Most of the rest of the teams since then don't tend to do very well at all the next season... and usually 1 or 2 horrible teams rise to being a good team the next year.

There are some consistencies, like the Colts who seem to always do well in the regular season... though not so much in the playoffs... or the Chargers who seem to like to start by losing 3-4 games and then having to win out to make the playoffs and then beat someone they probably shouldn't.

It's just really weird to me... and not counting injuries that derail seasons... I am always perplexed at how team performance varies so much from year to year with mostly the same roster.


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## JACKIEGAGA

JACKIEGAGA said:


> If anyone wants in Yahoo NFL Pro Pickem
> Here is the link
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=182136


Still not to late if anyone wants in NFL Pro Pickem click the link above.

Thanks Joshjr for setting it up


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## JACKIEGAGA

A little over 24hrs for Kick Off


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> A little over 24hrs for Kick Off


Not long now until the Favre-takes-a-beating early retirement festivus.....uh....first game.


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## JACKIEGAGA

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not long now until the Favre-takes-a-beating early retirement festivus.....uh....first game.


I just hope its a good game


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I just hope its a good game


The best game would be if Tavaris Jackson has to be the Vikings QB starting the 2nd quarter....


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## JACKIEGAGA

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The best game would be if Tavaris Jackson has to be the Vikings QB starting the 2nd quarter....


I expect that talk from tibber


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I expect that talk from tibber


:lol: Not to worry...there are thousands more that feel that way.


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## JACKIEGAGA

hdtvfan0001 said:


> :lol: Not to worry...there are thousands more that feel that way.


Here you go


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Here you go


!rolling

This is still my favorite...


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## JACKIEGAGA

I never saw that before


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I never saw that before


Beside the *Minnesota Vikings *(0 for 4).....the *Buffalo Bills *(0-for-4), *Philadelphia Eagles *(0-for-2), *Cincinnati Bengals *(0-for-2), *San Diego Chargers *(0-for-1), *Atlanta Falcons *(0-for-1), *Tennessee Titans *(0-for-1), *Carolina Panthers* (0-for-1), *Seattle Seahawks *(0-for-1) and *Arizona Cardinals* (0-for-1) also own the same unit, only re-labeled.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Steelers Falcons went to overtime yesterday dosent the other team get a chance to score in OT or that was only for the playoffs


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## Stewart Vernon

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Steelers Falcons went to overtime yesterday dosent the other team get a chance to score in OT or that was only for the playoffs


Only for the playoffs... They made the new "test" rule only to apply for the playoffs... but also, in the case of this specific game both teams got the ball. Atlanta failed to score & punted... then Pittsburgh won on the running play... so even in the playoffs that would have been it.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Stewart Vernon said:


> Only for the playoffs... They made the new "test" rule only to apply for the playoffs... but also, in the case of this specific game both teams got the ball. Atlanta failed to score & punted... then Pittsburgh won on the running play... so even in the playoffs that would have been it.


Thanks


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## dave29

Looks like Reggie Bush has a broken leg.



> The early diagnosis states that Reggie Bush suffered a fractured right fibula in Monday night's win over San Francisco, according to WWLTV News in Louisiana.


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## dave29

When will these rich guys learn to hire drivers........ :lol:



> New York Jets WR Braylon Edwards was arrested early Tuesday, Sept. 21, for drunken driving, ESPN.com reports. He was pulled over for having overly tinted windows in his Range Rover. Police smelled alcohol, and Edwards blew 0.16 on a breathalyzer, which was twice the legal limit. According to a league spokesman, DUIs are reviewed under the NFL's substance-abuse policy. There is no automatic suspension under any circumstances. The league isn't commenting on a possible outcome or specifics.


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## hdtvfan0001

dave29 said:


> Looks like Reggie Bush has a broken leg.


Ouch. based on what I saw last night...it will hurt the Saints...but not to the point they can't continue to win alot of games.


dave29 said:


> When will these rich guys learn to hire drivers........ :lol:


No kidding...an NFL player getting a DUI is inexcusable.

There sure are plenty of teams in a world of hurt that were picked by the "experts" to be SuperBowl contenders this year.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I wasn't expecting a broken leg... I was thinking maybe he tore something... which could have been worse, so in the scheme of things a fractured leg could be better than what I was thinking.

Not that I wished anything bad to happen to Reggie Bush... but more than one person out there is probably thinking Karma caught up to him given all the discussion around the goings-on during his time at USC.

As for Edwards... Frankly, I don't really understand how anyone can drink and drive anyway. I'm not a drinker, but I have had times (after surgery or a dental appointment) that I was on a painkiller that cautioned of driving while taking the medicine... and it never occurred to me to try and drive even if I felt competent at the time. I always had someone driving me to/from the doctor/hospital/dentist so it wouldn't even be possible for me to be driving under the influence.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> I wasn't expecting a broken leg... I was thinking maybe he tore something... which could have been worse, so in the scheme of things a fractured leg could be better than what I was thinking.
> 
> Not that I wished anything bad to happen to Reggie Bush... but more than one person out there is probably thinking Karma caught up to him given all the discussion around the goings-on during his time at USC.
> 
> As for Edwards... Frankly, *I don't really understand how anyone can drink and drive anyway*. I'm not a drinker, but I have had times (after surgery or a dental appointment) that I was on a painkiller that cautioned of driving while taking the medicine... and it never occurred to me to try and drive even if I felt competent at the time. I always had someone driving me to/from the doctor/hospital/dentist so it wouldn't even be possible for me to be driving under the influence.


All quite true.

When you consider the $$$ these guys make....they could easily afford a full time drive to take them to and from anyplace. Yet this continues to happen.

In the mean time...

I suspect this coming week's games will continue to separate the men from the boys (including the Cowboys) even more.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I liked on PTI yesterday... when they were talking about Pittsburgh "cowboying" up with their QB losses and winning games... and Tony said maybe they should change it to "steelering" up since the Cowboys aren't doing it!


----------



## braven

john1117 said:


> You guys are funny. Watch and weep!


As a Cowboys fan, I'm weeping all right. Pathetic.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

john1117 said:


> You guys are funny. Watch and weep!


Maybe Wade Phillips can fire Jerry Jones :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

braven said:


> As a Cowboys fan, I'm weeping all right. Pathetic.


They could always sit in Jerry Jones box and watch the game on the big screen there (since they won't be playing themselves)...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

On the plus side... if there is a lockout... maybe the Cowboys' replacement players will work harder


----------



## smiddy

How about those Rams?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

smiddy said:


> How about those Rams?


No kidding!

That game was alot different than I had thought it would be - cool.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

smiddy said:


> How about those Rams?


I like the Rams I still think they are beter than their record


----------



## Stewart Vernon

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I like the Rams I still think they are beter than their record


You know... I hear that... and I've said it before... but I think someone (maybe Coach Ditka?) once said... No, you're not. You're not better than your record. IF you were, then you would have a better record.

I try to feel that way about teams I root for... but it's hard to argue a team is better than their record unless they actually are winning.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> You know... I hear that... and I've said it before... but I think someone (maybe Coach Ditka?) once said... No, you're not. You're not better than your record. IF you were, then you would have a better record.
> 
> I try to feel that way about teams I root for... but it's hard to argue a team is better than their record unless they actually are winning.


Then again......

The Bears are not as good as their 2-0 record.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again......
> 
> The Bears are not as good as their 2-0 record.


Dont let Marty hear you say that. He is going to be upset when the Giants beat up on the Bears Sunday night. Im glad he dosent check this thread :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Dont let Marty hear you say that. He is going to be upset when the Giants beat up on the Bears Sunday night. Im glad he dosent check this thread :lol:


I'm not sure that a team has any boasting rights that has 3 wins consisting of a catch overturned on a technicality to survive in one game, beating another team that played its worst game in 3 years, and then another against a team that matched a 1945 record in penalities called on them and the Bears still only managed a win with 4 seconds left on a field goal.

Having listened to the Bears radio programming last week while traveling, they are talking Super Bowl.... what a joke. 

The way they are playing, they could lose the rest of their games and finish 3-13...oh no wait....4-12.....they play the Lions again. :lol:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again......
> 
> The Bears are not as good as their 2-0 record.


Maybe not... but it's a much easier argument to make that a 3-0 now team might not be as good as their record (i.e. they got lucky) than it is to say an 0-3 team is better than their record.

It's like taking a test...

IF I get an "A" on a test then it doesn't mean I'm omniscient! It just means I knew the questions I was asked.

BUT if I get an "F" on a test, that is more likely to indicate that I need to study more.

The old adage, about learning more from failure than success, holds true here.

In the 0-3 team we can see lots of flaws and you can't argue they "should" be better, because if they "should" then they would... while the 3-0 team might also show flaws, they at least have overcome those flaws.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> Maybe not... but it's a much easier argument to make that a 3-0 now team might not be as good as their record (i.e. they got lucky) than it is to say an 0-3 team is better than their record.
> 
> It's like taking a test...
> 
> IF I get an "A" on a test then it doesn't mean I'm omniscient! It just means I knew the questions I was asked.
> 
> BUT if I get an "F" on a test, that is more likely to indicate that I need to study more.
> 
> The old adage, about learning more from failure than success, holds true here.
> 
> In the 0-3 team we can see lots of flaws and you can't argue they "should" be better, because if they "should" then they would... while the 3-0 team might also show flaws, they at least have overcome those flaws.


OK 3-0 now....4-12 later...


----------



## Stewart Vernon

It should be noted that while the Bears are 3-0 and now the only undefeated team in the NFC... in watching them I don't feel like they are the best team. Of course in a 1-game scenario, anything can happen... but I still feel like New Orleans is better.

I would have said Green Bay was better, but Chicago just beat them so it's hard to continue making that argument unless Green Bay wins the rematch.

Philadelphia might also be better, if Vick can keep his performance going the way he has in 2.5 games of play so far.

IF I were ranking my gut on the NFC right now...

New Orleans
Philadelphia
Green Bay
Chicago
Atlanta

And yes, I know Atlanta just beat New Orleans... but New Orleans really should have made that short field goal to win that game.

Things can change and we've only had 3 game so far... but I'd say it's a "pick'em" at the moment between those 5 teams in the NFC, and it is splitting hairs to say 3-0 is better than 2-1 by a wide margin.

So I'm mostly picking those 5 at the top and assuming they will keep performing, but that over the course of the season the cream will rise to the top.

The AFC is a little harder for me to even begin picking at this point because I don't know if Kansas City at 3-0 is real or just smoke & mirrors... Remember Denver was 6-0 last season before nosediving the rest of the season.

In a guess between Kansas City & Chicago being 3-0 having a shot at ending 4-12, I'd be MUCH closer to thinking KC could pull that off if the cards fall in just the wrong way.

Indy at 2-1 is a mystery to me because it has been noted that Peyton Manning is having statistically his best start to a season ever... and yet, watching the games I haven't felt like Indy was in control of games like recent years.

New England and the Jets are similar mysteries as they are 2-1, but the "1" loss for each of them they kind of looked bad.

And Pittsburgh at 3-0 with great defense but QB-of-the-minute at the helm of the offense? I don't know what to make of that when Rothlesberger comes back.. will he step in and make the offense click and they become unbeatable? Or will it actually screw with the timing and chemistry since it will have been nearly 2 months since he has had any meaningful time with the team?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> IF I were ranking my gut on the NFC right now...
> 
> New Orleans
> Philadelphia
> Green Bay
> Chicago
> Atlanta
> 
> And yes, I know Atlanta just beat New Orleans... but New Orleans really should have made that short field goal to win that game.


...and Green Bay beat Philadelphia as well...

My take is that in another 2 weeks...we'll have a better idea of the contenders and pretenders.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and Green Bay beat Philadelphia as well...
> 
> My take is that in another 2 weeks...we'll have a better idea of the contenders and pretenders.


Yeah... I was taking into account that Vick almost came back in that game and has stayed strong, whereas Green Bay has looked a little worse in the weeks since that game.

But yeah, it's really next to impossible to form too many meaningful opinions until probably at least 6 games (and as noted last season Denver at 6-0 didn't hold up the rest of the way and it wasn't due to losing players through injury).


----------



## dave29

Moss traded...........

The Minnesota Vikings have acquired New England Patriots WR Randy Moss in exchange for a third-round draft choice, sources told Ian Rapoport, of the Boston Herald.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dave29 said:


> Moss traded...........
> 
> The Minnesota Vikings have acquired New England Patriots WR Randy Moss in exchange for a third-round draft choice, sources told Ian Rapoport, of the Boston Herald.


He always wanted to be playing with Favre some day...

Now they can sit in their rocking chairs side-by-side in Minnesota.


----------



## tsmacro

dave29 said:


> Moss traded...........
> 
> The Minnesota Vikings have acquired New England Patriots WR Randy Moss in exchange for a third-round draft choice, sources told Ian Rapoport, of the Boston Herald.


Gee think there's any chance that the Patriots noticed that the Vikings next game was against their division rivals the Jets and thought if they could make the Vikings a better team it might give them a better chance to beat the Jets and therefore help out Patriots? :sure:


----------



## meStevo

tsmacro said:


> Gee think there's any chance that the Patriots noticed that the Vikings next game was against their division rivals the Jets and thought if they could make the Vikings a better team it might give them a better chance to beat the Jets and therefore help out Patriots? :sure:


On the other hand, Vikings @ Patriots 10/31/2010.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Injuries are starting to mount this week on several teams....


----------



## tsmacro

meStevo said:


> On the other hand, Vikings @ Patriots 10/31/2010.


Yeah I noticed that after I made that post. It certainly makes for better conspiracy theory w/out the Vikes/Pats game a couple weeks later. :lol: Oh well. Actually you'd think that Moss would be in a position to have a better game against the Pats in the sense that he would've had more time working with Favre by then, plus your always motivated to want to try to perform against your former team. It actually does seem a little odd that the Pats would trade him to a team they were facing in a few weeks, but hey what do I know?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Has a player ever been traded and then traded back to the original team in the same season?

I know in the NBA they have trades where a player buys out his contract and then re-signs with the team that traded him... but I can't recall if the NFL allows anything like this.

I ask because... could the Pats trade to Vikings for the Jets game... then get Moss back after that?

I'm being partially silly, I know... but also wondering if the contract/rules allow it in the NFL.


----------



## meStevo

I'm guessing that's never happened, interesting idea though.

Unfortunately for the salivating media, I think the Moss trade was just the Patriots being the Patriots. They simply traded away a player they felt wasn't necessary to meet their goals with while he still had value.

Reports of him being unhappy coming off of his first 0 catch game in 3 years with the Patriots I doubt influenced the trade, the media is just digging and trying to create a better story than it probably is. Even when he was voicing his opinion that it's probably his final year in NE there were reports that it was one of his best offseasons and he's looked great in practice, giving 100% every play, etc.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Wow the Raiders are whooping it up on Denver


----------



## hdtvfan0001

This is turning into one of the strangest NFL seasons (so far) in many years - its getting to the point that no team is more than 50% predicable in their performance from week to week.

Between the new helmet-to-helmet enforcement (and fines/suspensions), one of the most inconsistent officiating performances, as well as "upsets" each week...the odds makers must be going nuts.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Any Given Sunday


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Any Given Sunday


Exactly.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Another Raider TD 38-0 Raiders


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Another Raider TD 38-0 Raiders


Who woulda thunk it.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Who woulda thunk it.


Raider fan's


----------



## sigma1914

For Fantasy Football, I started my back-up QB Kyle Orton since my starter Peyton Manning has a bye week. I figured he'd have 2-3 TDs and about 300 yards. Oops.


----------



## sigma1914

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Raider fan's


Both of them? :lol:


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

I have Kenny Britt from the Titans he got me 52 points


----------



## yosoyellobo

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Who woulda thunk it.


I wouldan't thunk it.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

52-14 Raiders


----------



## sigma1914

I also sat McFadden because he was reported as limited...Geez.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

sigma1914 said:


> I also sat McFadden because he was reported as limited...Geez.


Rough week


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

59 and counting


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

and a whole quarter left


----------



## hdtvfan0001

That has to be one of the most amazing blowout upsets I've seen in years.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Wow the Raiders are whooping it up on Denver


One of the few games I actually picked correctly today AND with good reason.

Kyle Horton is playing his butt off and was potentially on a pace to set a passing yardage record... but the rest of the team (defense in particular) is horrible for Denver.

I did not, however, think it would be 59-14!

I was thinking more like 35-28 with Oakland winning...

Though it goes without saying, I did NOT see Cleveland 30-17 over New Orleans coming... that was a bigger surprise to me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

The good guys won the night time game.

Woo Hoo...

Limpy Brett leaves Lambeau...


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Stewart Vernon said:


> Though it goes without saying, I did NOT see Cleveland 30-17 over New Orleans coming... that was a bigger surprise to me.


Well the Saints have only beaten one team by more than 5 points this year. If the spread is more than 5 take the other team


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Anyone see the resemblence in Favre's final season and Joe Montana's?

One year too long it seems...going out gimpy....

The Vikings will die a slow death the remainder of this season it seems.


----------



## MysteryMan

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Anyone see the resemblence in Favre's final season and Joe Montana's?
> 
> One year too long it seems...going out gimpy....
> 
> The Vikings will die a slow death the remainder of this season it seems.


Yeah, but for that kind of money we'd go out gimpy too!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

MysteryMan said:


> Yeah, but for that kind of money we'd go out gimpy too!


Good point...$20 Million buys alot of band aids.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Plus, Joe Montana wasn't creating a public spectacle during his final years.

He was let go from the 49ers due to a couple of injuries late in his career that led to them discovering how good Steve Young could be. Montana wasn't done yet, so he went to Kansas City and did well until his age finally caught up to him... and then he retired and didn't look back.

Favre retired, then changed his mind, but his team had moved on... and then things got nasty with public declarations by both him and the Packers... then he retired again to get away from the Jets... then he retired again after 1 season with the Vikings... and now he is back yet again, to probably retire again and then???

As far as people playing too long goes... Montana was one of the more graceful of staying-too-long scenarios.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Well the Saints have only beaten one team by more than 5 points this year. If the spread is more than 5 take the other team


For years, it looked like the Saints couldn't shake being lovable losers... even in a good year suddenly "remembering" they were supposed to lose, and finding ways to do so...

Now it looks like they can't handle success... and are finding new ways to lose all over again!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> Plus, Joe Montana wasn't creating a public spectacle during his final years.
> 
> He was let go from the 49ers due to a couple of injuries late in his career that led to them discovering how good Steve Young could be. Montana wasn't done yet, so he went to Kansas City and did well until his age finally caught up to him... and then he retired and didn't look back.
> 
> Favre retired, then changed his mind, but his team had moved on... and then things got nasty with public declarations by both him and the Packers... then he retired again to get away from the Jets... then he retired again after 1 season with the Vikings... and now he is back yet again, to probably retire again and then???
> 
> As far as people playing too long goes... Montana was one of the more graceful of staying-too-long scenarios.


Overall mostly true...but there were actually some pretty hot press conferences, media reports, and interviews even before the whole Montana going to the Chiefs thing rolled out...they died down much quicker is likely the difference. Favre is someone I have enjoyed for a long time (until he changed his name to Benedict Arnold anyway )...but the last 2-3 years with that fellow seems like a made-for-tv mini drama.


Stewart Vernon said:


> For years, it looked like the Saints couldn't shake being lovable losers... even in a good year suddenly "remembering" they were supposed to lose, and finding ways to do so...
> 
> Now it looks like they can't handle success... and are finding new ways to lose all over again!


No loyalty to the Saints here, but I certainly was among the millions who were pleased to see them finally succeed to the top in their game.


----------



## Hoosier205

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No loyalty to the Saints here, but I certainly was among the millions who were pleased to see them finally succeed to the top in their game.


I wasn't.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hoosier205 said:


> I wasn't.


I suspected not Mr. Manning.


----------



## Hoosier205

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspected not Mr. Manning.


Including the fact that Drew is a former Purdue QB doesn't help his standing in my eyes. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Hoosier205 said:


> Including the fact that Drew is a former Purdue QB doesn't help his standing in my eyes. :lol:


I smell what you're cooking. 

Actually, I forsaw Mr. Brees becoming a future star while still at Purdue, even before his West Coast abuse and "learning period". :lol:


----------



## sigma1914

Hoosier205 said:


> I wasn't.


Me neither. I was very upset.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No loyalty to the Saints here, but I certainly was among the millions who were pleased to see them finally succeed to the top in their game.


That was me... also in high school I had a friend who was from the area and he was always a Saints fans even when he knew they were probably going to have a horrible year.

My Panthers have gone back to crap-mode again... so my loyalties get divided as the season develops.

I'm not one to just hitch my ride to a team that is doing well... but last year I did hitch to the Saints a bit because it was good to see them doing well and have them realistically looking like they could (and ultimately did) finish it off.

This year, I'm not sure who to root for. Most of the NFC just doesn't look very good... but by rule there will be NFC teams in the playoffs! 

There are several strong looking teams in the AFC... but I don't yet have anyone I'm really wanting to see win yet. I'm not rooting against anyone either... but no one has grabbed me yet and got me tempted to get on the bandwagon.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

At this point, predicting the Super Bowl finalists would be a pretty tough forecast.


----------



## MysteryMan

Thinks after yesterday's loss Coach Chan Gailey would make a nice candidate for the new Cymbalta commercial.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Just saw the official piece from the NFL explaining the ending of the Dolphins/Steelers game.

Yes - the Dolphins were robbed...and the error was admitted. But their loss will apparently not be overturned.

I really could care less about either team, but honestly, through using NFL Sunday Ticket again this year...and watching alot of games...this seems to be a particularly bad year for NFL officiating.

It really hurts a team and thier fans when the outcome of games are directly affected - and more than one game has fallen into that category so far this season. Officials are human and make mistakes...but they seem to have come in droves, and of a higher nature of error this year. A shame.


----------



## MysteryMan

MysteryMan said:


> Thinks after yesterday's loss Coach Chan Gailey would make a nice candidate for the new Cymbalta commercial.


Go Giants!!!......Replaces Chan Gailey with Wade Phillips for the new Cymbalta commercial, hands Tony Romo a crying towel. That was some hit he took last night!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

How 'bout dem Cowboys. :eek2:


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

john1117 said:


> Cowboys have the talent to win it this year.





sigma1914 said:


> Yet still no coach or leadership. Same story, different year.





john1117 said:


> You guys are funny. Watch and weep!





hdtvfan0001 said:


> How 'bout dem Cowboys. :eek2:


Yea How 'bout dem


----------



## sigma1914

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Yea How 'bout dem


Hmmm...I was right!


----------



## sigma1914




----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Nice I just set the pic as my screensaver


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

sigma1914 said:


>


Rest In Pieces


----------



## tsmacro

Wow the Jets are getting screwed over good today, so far two interceptions which replays clearly showed were not interceptions. The first one wasn't overruled on replay because apparently you can't challenge possession of the ball or something stupid. And the second one couldn't be challenged because the Jets lost the previous challenge and had none left. Sorry but if replay doesn't allow the referee to make the correct call after watching it then the rule needs to be changed.


----------



## tsmacro

Even with the bad calls the Jets still had a chance to win that game, they just made too many mistakes.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I missed this game, so I can't speak to specifics... but I loathe the limited-challenges system.

In a scenario where a lot of bad calls are happening... and you only get 2 (or 3 if you get 2 right) the whole game, you are then forced to only challenge "important" things that the officials get wrong for risk of not being able to challenge something else later.

Whatever the rules are about what can and cannot be reviewed... those things should be reviewable at any time, period, or it isn't worth having the system.

I like the way college football is doing it now... with people in a booth upstairs watching the whole game and they periodically review close plays all during the game without any challenge needed.

The NFL needs to adopt something similar if they want to get the calls right.

FYI, I don't always blame officials, because some of the stuff that happens is hard to see in real-time from multiple angles! But give them the chance to see things again and get things right.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Funny how when the NY teams lose, its almost always because of bad calls (even when all the announcers agree with those calls)... 

If the Jets can't score, they can't win. Scoring 0 points against a defense with 3 starters wearing a Packer jersey for the first time in their career should prove once and for all Rex Ryan is a blowhard and not much more.


----------



## DCSholtis

*Raider Nation*........


----------



## MysteryMan

Great Bills/Chiefs game. Fans of either team got their money's worth!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Favre just carted off....looks like he took a big hit and is done for today.


----------



## stevenv

MysteryMan said:


> Great Bills/Chiefs game. Fans of either team got their money's worth!


GO CHIEFS!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lots of surprises this year...

Cowboys picked to host the Superbowl in their own stadium - they're burned toast

Vikings picked for the Superbowl based on Favre's return (again) - they're toast

Chiefs & Rams picked to be laughers (again) - they're winning and beating good teams

Redskins and 49'ers expected to have their QB's shine - not working out that way

Bears supposed to be mediocre - OK - that one lived up to its billing 

Lots more to come...but certainly a topsy turvy league this year


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Outside of Cowboys fans (and even they should have been more honest with themselves) I don't know why people keep picking them to win every year lately.

The current roster of players and coaching staff has proven to disappoint one way or another year after year.

I'm not a hater... but realistically, there was no reason to look at Dallas this year as doing anything special. In fact, last year looks more and more like a fluke.

I'm not sure their "on paper talent" is as good as people keep saying anymore... but I'm definitely sure the team isn't very good. Something major needs to happen there to affect change for the future.


----------



## redsoxfan26

Randy Moss has been waived by the Vikings.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...er-acquiring-wr-in-trade?module=breaking_news

:nono2:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

redsoxfan26 said:


> Randy Moss has been waived by the Vikings.
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...er-acquiring-wr-in-trade?module=breaking_news
> 
> :nono2:


Yup...the Vikings are clearly in a downward spiral these days...


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

redsoxfan26 said:


> Randy Moss has been waived by the Vikings.
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...er-acquiring-wr-in-trade?module=breaking_news
> 
> :nono2:


Wow


----------



## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Wow


The surprise in that news lasted about 1 second...then I thought about who it was about and thought further...."there's no surprise"...


----------



## dave29

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Wow


That's what I said.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

But did they really waive him?

I saw them talking all afternoon... but then during pre-game tonight, "Mort" said that despite hearing word from players that the coach announced it... there has been no official word from the Vikings nor any activity on the waiver list... so technically he hasn't been waived yet.


----------



## redsoxfan26

I guess not. No paperwork has been filed with the NFL yet. At any rate, I find it hard to believe Moss will play another game in Minnesota.


----------



## tsmacro

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Funny how when the NY teams lose, its almost always because of bad calls (even when all the announcers agree with those calls)...
> 
> If the Jets can't score, they can't win. Scoring 0 points against a defense with 3 starters wearing a Packer jersey for the first time in their career should prove once and for all Rex Ryan is a blowhard and not much more.


Who said the Jets lost because of bad calls? No one. Actually I think it was mentioned that the Jets could've won the game if they hadn't made so many mistakes. Now in that game there did happen to be two bad calls where receivers were clearly already on the ground and then once down by contact had balls ripped from their arms that the refs made the same mistake both times calling them interceptions. Those calls didn't cause the Jets to lose but it definitely highlighted a shortcoming in the replay system. Funny though how when you mention there was bad calls involved in a NY game there's always someone wanting to jump on you accusing you of making excuses for the loss when if they bothered to read the posts would be able to tell that wasn't the case  Oh well.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tsmacro said:


> *Even with the bad calls *the Jets still had a chance to win that game, they just made too many mistakes.





tsmacro said:


> Who said the Jets *lost because of bad calls*?


You inferred it.


----------



## tsmacro

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You inferred it.


Anything you think I may have inferred you'd think would've been overridden by my following post that literally said the Jets lost because because of their own mistakes, but sure you saw a chance to take a swipe at a NY fan and you took it so good for you. 
Actually the first post was to point out my frustration with the replay system. If you can't watch a replay and call what actually happened because some letter of the law thing then the rules needs to be changed. Kind of like last night during monday night football there was a play where a player had his head jerked around by a bad face mask and apparently everyone except the refs saw it so it didn't get called and penalties or the lack of them being called can't be challenged either. Sorry but the NFL needs to have the replay booth official be able to call something like that when it's missed by the guys on the field. Sure you can't have every play subject to review like that because they say they could call holding on just about every play and the game would grind to a halt. But when it's a case when everyone in the stadium can see a players head get jerked around in such a way it could've resulted in a serious injury and somehow all the officials on the field were looking the other way at the moment the replay booth should be able to call down and say "hey you missed a bad one, just look at the replay on the big screen right now and throw your flag". If the point of having replay at all is to get it right, then they need to get it right or just scrap it completely.


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## hdtvfan0001

tsmacro said:


> Anything you think I may have inferred you'd think would've been overridden by my following post that literally said the Jets lost because because of their own mistakes, but sure you saw a chance to take a swipe at a NY fan and you took it so good for you.
> Actually the first post was to point out my frustration with the replay system. If you can't watch a replay and call what actually happened because some letter of the law thing then the rules needs to be changed. Kind of like last night during monday night football there was a play where a player had his head jerked around by a bad face mask and apparently everyone except the refs saw it so it didn't get called and penalties or the lack of them being called can't be challenged either. Sorry but the NFL needs to have the replay booth official be able to call something like that when it's missed by the guys on the field. Sure you can't have every play subject to review like that because they say they could call holding on just about every play and the game would grind to a halt. But when it's a case when everyone in the stadium can see a players head get jerked around in such a way it could've resulted in a serious injury and somehow all the officials on the field were looking the other way at the moment the replay booth should be able to call down and say "hey you missed a bad one, just look at the replay on the big screen right now and throw your flag". If the point of having replay at all is to get it right, then they need to get it right or just scrap it completely.


Once I managed to read the post above...  ...

I'd agree that this year has been one of the most inconsistent and poorly officiated NFL seasons I can recall - for almost all games. Part of the problem is the way some of the rules themselves are written - leaving them open to human error for interpretation.

Maybe when the NFL is on strike next year...the league can get their act together on several of their rules...


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## hdtvfan0001

Moss was indeed "cut"...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39963178/ns/sports-nfl/


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## tsmacro

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe when the NFL is on strike next year...the league can get their act together on several of their rules...


Hopefully it won't take anything that drastic! :eek2: Maybe after the season someone could send them a video montage of all the bad calls from this season, with a question on the screen at the end asking "What can we do to make this better?"


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## hdtvfan0001

tsmacro said:


> Hopefully it won't take anything that drastic! :eek2: Maybe after the season someone could send them a video montage of all the bad calls from this season, with a question on the screen at the end asking "What can we do to make this better?"


No one wants to see a stike...but it seems a better-than-50%-chance probability.

Agree that the NFL will likely have a busy season sifting through all the errors to regroup on some of the rules that went amuck in execution by the refs this year. Some of it is human error.


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## Sackchamp56

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No one wants to see a stike...but it seems a better-than-50%-chance probability.
> 
> Agree that the NFL will likely have a busy season sifting through all the errors to regroup on some of the rules that went amuck in execution by the refs this year. Some of it is human error.


 Kind of off topic, but there will not be a strike. It would be a lockout by the owners.

In other words, the owners preventing the players from playing, not the players refusing to play like last time.

This is an important difference. For one, from a fans perspective there would be no possibility of continued play with replacement players. It would be a complete shutdown. Just an FYI.


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## MysteryMan

Way to go Randy Moss. As usual your mouth is two minutes ahead of your brain!


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## hdtvfan0001

Sackchamp56 said:


> Kind of off topic, but there will not be a strike. It would be a lockout by the owners.
> 
> In other words, the owners preventing the players from playing, not the players refusing to play like last time.
> 
> This is an important difference. For one, from a fans perspective there would be no possibility of continued play with replacement players. It would be a complete shutdown. Just an FYI.


OK...I'm with you....yup.... plenty of time to go through every last page in the rulebook with a yellow highlighter...


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## joed32

Moss is a Titan now.


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm amazed that 21 teams passed on him, and only the Titans even put in for a waiver.

I'm not naive about his attitude issues... but there are players with more legal troubles who do even less on the field that get snapped up in a hurry. People with drug-test-failure suspensions in their history get snapped up.

I can't believe there wasn't more than 1 team that could have used him.

That said... he might have "fallen" to a good place with the Titans. They are a team close enough that he could make a difference.

Do the Titans play the Jets? I still would love to see a player get traded one year so that each week he keeps playing against the same team.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Tonight the first of 8 games for Thursday Night Football Woohoo


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## yosoyellobo

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Tonight the first of 8 games for Thursday Night Football Woohoo


Have mix feelings. I love football but worry that in a few years they will be playing in wheel chairs. If the NFL is so worry about the health of the players maybe they should cut down on the number of games.


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## Stewart Vernon

yosoyellobo said:


> Have mix feelings. I love football but worry that in a few years they will be playing in wheel chairs. If the NFL is so worry about the health of the players maybe they should cut down on the number of games.


I've been waiting for a study that shows players are more apt to be hurt at the end of the season than at the beginning.

Why?

Because... a lot of the "too many players have been injured" stories have happened in the first half of the season... which means they'd have to cut down to less than 8 games to have avoided many of those injuries!

I've yet to see a study that trends upwards as the season goes on... i.e. that playing more games = more injuries.

I feel for the players at risk, but then they get paid a lot to play football and they choose to play football instead of doing some other less dangerous job.

I'm all for making the game safer... but I'm not sure more games automatically equates to more injuries. Just like less games doesn't automatically equate to less injuries. How many players are lost for the year in pre-season? Or in week 1 games? Those guys were gone before the first week, so anything more than a 1 game season was too much for them.

Meanwhile, regarding Thursday games... I "get" that it is a short week for those teams, but they then get a long week the following week.

Also, Dallas & Detroit + 2 other teams have been doing it every year on Thanksgiving since forever... so having some more Thursday games during the season for other teams actually makes it more fair for the other teams in the league to all get a short-week at some point.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Green Bay has one ugly throwback uniforms


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## Scott Kocourek

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Green Bay has one ugly throwback uniforms


No doubt, I'm having a hard time following the players and who they are. Sometimes I don't know who I'm cheering for.


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## Davenlr

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Green Bay has one ugly throwback uniforms


As long as they are winning, they could be wearing long johns


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## JACKIEGAGA

:lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Green Bay has one ugly throwback uniforms


Apparently you haven't seen the throwbacks from Chicago or Minnesota. :eek2:

The difference, of course, is that when Green Bay wears them...they were a Championship team uniform.


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## Earl Bonovich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently you haven't seen the throwbacks from Chicago or Minnesota. :eek2:
> 
> The difference, of course, is that when Green Bay wears them...they were a Championship team uniform.


Which one for the Bears? Some are god awfull, some are not so bad.


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## hdtvfan0001

Earl Bonovich said:


> Which one for the Bears? Some are god awfull, some are not so bad.


The one today for the Packers was indeed more like a Steelers jersey than anything else. The throwback for the Bears early in the season was not very appealing at all.


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## Davenlr

Yea, but that was a great game right up to the 10 seconds left mark!


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## hdtvfan0001

Davenlr said:


> Yea, but that was a great game right up to the 10 seconds left mark!


The media keeps talking about how great the Bears defense is...yet they have been crushed several times this year...whereas the Packers' losses have been only by a total of 20 points all season.

The Green Bay defense is also playing 5 new players that weren't even starting at the bye week....yet....today (again), the Pack defense crushed the Bears facade of an offense....3 points...6 sacks and 2 interceptions. Jay Cutler remains the gutless wonder.


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm neither a Cutler fan nor a hater... but Chicago doesn't have a very good offensive line... so not many QBs would be having a good year behind that.


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## lwilli201

The NFL playoffs just got turned on its head. A 7/9 beating the 11/5 defending SB champs. OUCH.


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## sigma1914

lwilli201 said:


> The NFL playoffs just got turned on its head. A 7/9 beating the 11/5 defending SB champs. OUCH.


It was great seeing the Saints lose. Their bandwagon just fell over.


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## Stewart Vernon

lwilli201 said:


> The NFL playoffs just got turned on its head. A 7/9 beating the 11/5 defending SB champs. OUCH.


I'm rooting for Seattle just to screw with the NFL for allowing such a thing to happen.

I can't argue that the 7-9 Seahawks should be in, much less hosting a game... and winning doesn't justify it. Seattle would have to win the Superbowl to finish above .500 at 11-9!

Think about that for a minute... Seattle could get to and lose the Superbowl and be 10-10! That's insane.

Two 10-6 teams in the NFC didn't get in...

Heck, I'd make a case for the Raiders at 8-8 who at least went 6-0 inside their own division... before I'd make a case for Seattle.

As an example... I'm an ACC fan... but some years ago UNC got in with a 16-13 record to the NCAA tourney... and they made it to the final four before losing there! BUT... I still thought they didn't earn their way into the playoffs that year.

How many other teams with that record might have done the same thing?

And back to the NFL... The Rams (also finished at 7-9) could have been 8-8 and might have won that game today... The 10-6 Tampa Bay team that didn't make the playoffs just beat the Saints last weekend so we know they could have won if in the same scenario.

So... I'm rooting for Atlanta first... but if they can't win, I'm rooting for Seattle just to screw with things!


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## lwilli201

I also am just thrilled with the American patriots at NBC. You see the US flag being brought on the field, go to commercial. :nono2:


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## chevyguy559

Who dat? Seattle dat! :lol:

But both games tonight were great games


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## Stewart Vernon

lwilli201 said:


> I also am just thrilled with the American patriots at NBC. You see the US flag being brought on the field, go to commercial. :nono2:


Not sure what you're getting at here... NBC is unamerican for taking a commercial break? Commercials are a big part of capitalism which is arguably VERY American.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Saint and Colts last years Superbowl participants are out. Wow both geting knocked out by the 6th seed


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## sigma1914

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Saint and Colts last years Superbowl participants are out. Wow both geting knocked out by the 6th seed


Seattle is the 4th seed, despite their record.


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## lwilli201

Stewart Vernon said:


> Not sure what you're getting at here... NBC is unamerican for taking a commercial break? Commercials are a big part of capitalism which is arguably VERY American.


Yes I guess commercials are more important than showing the playing of the National Anthem. I guess this shows our priorities. Capitalism would not exist without the freedoms of this great Republic and the flag that represents it. Our freedoms are slowly being taken away and Capitalism is a dirty word for many. Our children are not being tough patriotism and the MSM is not going out of its way to promote it. I hope you enjoy your new internet ID. BRING ON THE COMMERCIALS.


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## djlong

Patriotism is in my heart. I do not feel the need to sing every patriotic song at every public occasion. Having said that, yes, I sing it when they play it at the games I attend but those are few and far between. I watch far more games on TV that I will EVER see. If I ever need to be reminded of what this country is all about, I just look at my badge. I'm employed by the Air Force. My brother is ex-Navy as is my father. My mom is ex-Marine. My uncle was ex-Air Force and my grandfather ex-Army. My stepsons just ended their service in the Navy and Army. My other brother had his undiagnosed hole in his heart discovered when he tried to enlist in the Air Force (the physical caught it).

If you want to see a network play the National Anthem, I suggest you watch a NASCAR race. It seems to me that they never miss the Anthem - heck they even broadcast the invocation. When was the last time you saw, *on TV*, a sporting event led by a prayer?


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## MysteryMan

lwilli201 said:


> Yes I guess commercials are more important than showing the playing of the National Anthem. I guess this shows our priorities. Capitalism would not exist without the freedoms of this great Republic and the flag that represents it. Our freedoms are slowly being taken away and Capitalism is a dirty word for many. Our children are not being tough patriotism and the MSM is not going out of its way to promote it. I hope you enjoy your new internet ID. BRING ON THE COMMERCIALS.


Your wasting your time my friend. They don't get it and never will.


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## Stewart Vernon

lwilli201 said:


> Yes I guess commercials are more important than showing the playing of the National Anthem. I guess this shows our priorities. Capitalism would not exist without the freedoms of this great Republic and the flag that represents it. Our freedoms are slowly being taken away and Capitalism is a dirty word for many. Our children are not being tough patriotism and the MSM is not going out of its way to promote it. I hope you enjoy your new internet ID. BRING ON THE COMMERCIALS.


They almost never show the playing of the national anthem at any sporting event on TV. For that matter, even if they do... in order to do that, the camera crew (at minimum) has to not technically be honoring the flag and country in order to broadcast the event... which is a lose-lose scenario for someone like yourself who will chastise them for not showing it on TV.

Furthermore... I'm not sure why the national anthem has become tied into sports anyway. Why do they not play the national anthem before any TV show whether it be sports or not? How come they don't play the national anthem on Broadway or before any live theater or musical performance?

It's really a semi-arbitrary thing to associate the national anthem with sports... except if you're talking about a game played by one of the Armed-forces academies (like say the Army-Navy game)...

I don't find it offensive to cut to commercial at all... One could argue that the true patriot who cares that much should be at the game OR should simply play the anthem in his own home and stand with hand over heart during that commercial break anyway. Nobody is stopping you from flying your own flag and playing the anthem and honoring the country before watching the game.

So I'm not sure what "freedom" was violated by the commercial.


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## Davenlr

Stewart Vernon said:


> Furthermore... I'm not sure why the national anthem has become tied into sports anyway.


I believe its tied to the Olympics, the original sporting event. In any case, only NASCAR plays the national anthem in toto, before every one of their televised events.


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## hdtvfan0001

*BREAKING NEWS*: More Dead Birds Found in US.

In another strange twist of fate, it was reported that The CDC sent a team to Philadelphia as 53 DEAD EAGLES turned up on Lincoln Field last week.

Speculation is the dead birds were subjected to repeated blunt force trauma.

The CDC had also issued a warning this week to Georgia, as they feared a similar outbreak potentially loomed for FALCONS in the area yesterday. Now we know what happened there...

As a precaution...the CDC has issued another warning last night to Washington State regarding potential hazardous cases for SEAHAWKS.

Based on extensive testing, the CDC has learned the very same symptoms can be found in BEARS, and are terminal for any outside activities in which they may partake.

The source has just been located:


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## JACKIEGAGA

Bears - Steelers my picks


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## Stewart Vernon

I can't even begin to pick at this point.

Green Bay has looked good, while Chicago has been up and down all season.. but I like that Chicago played their last game of the season with starters... kind of like how the Giants did a few years ago, and also like the Giants came up short BUT get a rematch with that same opponent.

The Jets already beat the Steelers this year... but Sanchez has been up and down.

At this point, I'm basically not surprised whoever wins.

I will say, though... that the Superbowl will be distinctly different depending on the matchup.

I think Jets v Packers would be good... also Jets v Bears or Steelers v Packers... but Steelers v Bears? I think that would be a Steelers romp for some reason.


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## JACKIEGAGA

Bears Packers enjoy the game everyone


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## Jim5506

Did anyone else notice that the center speaker output on FOX's NFL championship game was way too low, the two rear speakers kept drowning out Aikman and what's-his-name.

So far the CBS center volume is OK.


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## hdtvfan0001

Cutler has a "bruised ligament"...

Not worthy of leaving the game...but we all know the real reason this Bear left...got it on film...


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## Tom Robertson

My complaint is not that Cutler was pulled for a sprained MCL. Any of the knee ligaments are serious and one can't tell sprain from tear without an MRI. The trainers pulled him.

But what did he do on the sidelines? Did he assist his teammates? Did he root for his team? 

The TV clips of him I saw didn't paint him in a good light--so I really don't know.

Then again--I don't really care about Cutler. 

Go Packers!


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## Stewart Vernon

I don't think we know what Cutler did or didn't do on the sidelines. Most of the TV coverage was of the actual game... not the sidelines. A bunch of Bears players stood up for him.

Also, arguably, if he was pulled from the game by the trainers... sometimes they steer players to an area where they can make sure he stays off of the field and doesn't try and sneak back on himself.

I just think it is silly and wrong for anyone to criticize someone for not playing with an injury. Everyone has a different pain tolerance... and if he couldn't play as good with the pain then he would be a hindrance.

Truth be told, Cutler was already having a bad game before the injury... so an injured Cutler who was already playing poorly would have been bad. Too bad they didn't go to their 3rd string guy earlier or they might have had a better chance... as that guy was the only one who had any success for the Bears offense (besides Forte).


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## hdtvfan0001

This debate will likely go on until next season...but there are already multiple views on these points...


Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't think we know what Cutler did or didn't do on the sidelines. Most of the TV coverage was of the actual game... not the sidelines. A bunch of Bears players stood up for him.


Cutler was standing and walking on the sidelines most of the 4th quarter, and part of the 3rd. The players code is that if you can walk, you can play. In reality, there are at least 6 Bears who (off the record to avoid confrontations) who felt he wimped out on the team. There are over 20 NFL peers - some of which had the same injury themselves - who agree with that view. Keeping in mind that we're talking about a guy who has a history of excuses...so his credibility was suspect before this event. 


> Also, arguably, if he was pulled from the game by the trainers... sometimes they steer players to an area where they can make sure he stays off of the field and doesn't try and sneak back on himself.
> 
> I just think it is silly and wrong for anyone to criticize someone for not playing with an injury. Everyone has a different pain tolerance... and if he couldn't play as good with the pain then he would be a hindrance.


While it is very true that only Cutler himself knows how much the injury hurt or caused problems...he did little to shun the fact that he wimped out - standing and walking around gives no appearance of "serious" injury - especially in a game that perhaps might be the last chance for him and his team-mates to go to a Super Bowl. Ya never know.


> Truth be told, Cutler was already having a bad game before the injury... so an injured Cutler who was already playing poorly would have been bad. Too bad they didn't go to their 3rd string guy earlier or they might have had a better chance... as that guy was the only one who had any success for the Bears offense (besides Forte).


This scenario happens any time a new QB with a new style and pace enters a game. It takes time for a defense to adjust. The reality is that they did, and made the pick to take his potential game-tying heroics off the table. He might be the only guy on the team with something to be proud of at this point. Even the coaches made bonehead moves that I bet they'd take back if they had to do it over again.

In the end...the right 2 teams are in the Superbowl...I read months ago that they were both forecast as being there...even though I personally questioned it myself.


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## Stewart Vernon

Wasn't it just last year that Rothlisberger had a head injury in a game... and then sat out 2 weeks due to a concussion... and players were calling him out for not "playing through it"? Even with all the heightened sensitivity to head injuries in recent years... he was questioned for not playing.

I'm in a weird position here of defending a QB that I don't really like... but I just don't think it is fair at all to question someone who doesn't play after an injury. Could he play? Maybe. Should he play? Maybe not. There's no real way to know.

I think the better reason to criticize, judge, and bench Cutler is for his on-field play... I have a LOT more questions about his capability as a QB when he is healthy than I do of whether or not he was hurt too badly to continue this past weekend.


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## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> Wasn't it just last year that Rothlisberger had a head injury in a game... and then sat out 2 weeks due to a concussion... and players were calling him out for not "playing through it"? Even with all the heightened sensitivity to head injuries in recent years... he was questioned for not playing.


True. Of course this year, the rules for concussions are very strict and enforced.


> I'm in a weird position here of defending a QB that I don't really like... but I just don't think it is fair at all to question someone who doesn't play after an injury. Could he play? Maybe. Should he play? Maybe not. *There's no real way to know.*


*He* knows - and he ain't sayin' 


> *I think the better reason to criticize, judge, and bench Cutler is for his on-field play*... I have a LOT more questions about his capability as a QB when he is healthy than I do of whether or not he was hurt too badly to continue this past weekend.


Well...there's certainly plenty of material along those lines to ponder. :lol:

While time heals all wounds...I suspect he has a long-lasting stain on how he is viewed by some of his team-mates, his peers, and many fans - whether or not its founded on perception or fact.


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## redsoxfan26

Jeff Fisher has coached his last game with the Titans. Story here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ans-jeff-fisher/index.html?xid=siextra_012811


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## JACKIEGAGA

Titans asked permission to talk to GIANTS Def. Cordinator Perry Fewell


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## JACKIEGAGA

Everyone enjoy Superbowl XLV


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