# Directv vs. DISH...which is better???



## somguy (Oct 2, 2006)

I have now had the chance to experience both Directv and DISH.
I switched to DISH due to all of the HD DVR glitches/issues that I had hoping, and maybe some wishful thinking on my part, that DISH would be better and unfortunately I was wrong. 
Considering that DISH is only $5 cheaper for me per month, than it all came down to Features on my DVR.
Granted DISH has some cool features like PIP and dual live tuner buffers, but by far Directv outways them in features and ease of use. It is so much easier to set defaults and recordings, etc. with Directv that I feel that they are the lesser of the 2 evils. Plus they also offer much more HDTV. The picture quality was worse and I had multiple spontaneous reboots with DISH. Plus there is too many extra things you have to do to either record a show or go back to Live TV, etc. and therefore much more of a hassel than Directv.
Since both companies have issues with their dvr's and their pricing is about the same than for me it came down to features which I feel that Directv faired better and therfore it looks like we will be switching back to Directv.

I guess that you don't know what you got until you don't got it no more!!
Sometimes though you have to experience things for yourself, no matter what someone tells you and then you can make an informed decision.

So for those of you who have been with both companies, what is your opinion on both of them? Who do you like more and why? 
Feel free to agree or disagree with me as I value all opinions and thank you for reading my post!!


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

While my home was being built, I lived with the in-laws for a few months. They had DISH. I absolutely hated DISH. Every one of their receivers was extremely slow and hard to navigate through. I ended up getting their blessing to put a DirecTV dish up and had my DirecTV again.

Funny thing is, now the in-laws are DirecTV customers and they are very happy for switching.


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## burtom (Sep 13, 2007)

I have been thinking about this a bit lately and these are some of the things that seem important to me right now about the two companies. I am thinking about going to DirecTV HD if they ever get the SWMLine antenna in my area. I think the cost of the package that I am thinking about, HD DVR, with 4 HR2X receivers would be $98.94 wit DirecTV, while a system not quite as good, 3 HD DVRs, would be over $115.00 a month with Dish. I originally switched from Dish to DirecTV because I got stuck in a bad refurb replacement loop that really upset my wife; 2 DOA refurbs in a row then a unit that worked about month.

Dish
1)	Good 
a)	DVRs reliable and work like a DVR.
b)	For a simple system cheaper than DirecTV

2)	Bad
a)	Corny 2 TV DVRs
b)	5.00 charge for no phone line.
c)	4 tuner lease limit.
d)	Monthly charge really adds up with the 5.98 access fee for each DVR
e)	2 year commitment at $10 a month with upgrade.
f)	No way around losing recordings when DVR breaks.

DirecTV
1)	Good
a)	No corny 2 TV DVR
b)	Pricing as you add more to system becomes cheaper than DISH
c)	Cool tech like setting DVR events on the web and the CE program you have here.
d)	No 5.00 charge for no phone line.

2)	Bad
a)	Suspect reliability of DVRs. 
b)	May have hit a whole new low in customer service.
c)	$696 upfront fee for HD DVRs.
d)	Current 2 cable requirement for each DVR.
e)	Blank and missed recording
f)	2 year commitment at $20 a month with change over.
g)	No way around losing recordings when DVR breaks.


Have a Great Day


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

FYI, it's hard to read posts that are entirely in *bold*.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

burtom, good reasoning you've done, but with each you make a point under "bad" of no way around losing recordings when DVR breaks. I may not be sure of what you mean by that, but what DVR is there that you will be able to retain recordings if it breaks?

There is an option with the DirecTV HD DVRs (not sure about the SD DVRs) to use an external hard drive. In that case, if something with the DVR itself (or maybe even the internal HD) breaks, I believe your recordings would be accessible if you connected the external drive to a replacement DVR (keeping in mind that it's either use the internal or an external drive - it's an either/or thing).


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## l8er (Jun 18, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> .... I believe your recordings would be accessible if you connected the external drive to a replacement DVR ....


 I believe it's not that easy. External drives are usually "married" to a DVR - meaning you can't take it from one DVR and view the contents by hooking it up to another DVR.


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

Dish does not carry the Yes Network so I didn't even consider them as an option.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

For me...and speaking only for me...DirecTV is the better choice.

Mike


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## burtom (Sep 13, 2007)

Hi JLuc

I could be wrong but I believe when you move an external drive on the HR series the first thing it does is format the drive losing all your recordings. A good item for the wish list would be if you transfer an external hard drive within the same account it would not format. That would probably be pretty hard to do though.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I think the GUI on the E* boxes is not very good. Looks like something from the mid-1990's


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I moved this out of the DIRECTV forum since the question actually is more general and would be better in the Gen Sat area for all to see. 

I never have had D* so I cannot comment on the comparison of the DVRs. However, I can offer up some experiences and observations from the E* side of the support forums. 

In reading the numerous threads on the E* side of the fence there have been a lot of people that have come from the D* side of the fence and have preferred the E* DVRs interface. Also a number of people that currently have both. There have also been some others that have felt the other way around.. I would suggest someguy that after about 6 months come back and report your opinions after having some time using it and after you get your installation issues worked out. Here is why..

1) Mac vs. Windows effect - Whenever a user moves from a Mac to a Windows box or visa versa for the first time, in most cases they are frustrated with the interface. It does not seem intuitive to them, buttons don't appear to be where they should be, How do I maximize my Mac Window etc... They may comment why they swtiched and how much better the other interface is. 

However, over time and as the user become more familiar with the interface what was pain points drift away and in a lot of case the persons opinion between the two change. Not saying Someguy that your opinion will change.. But every interface has a break in period when moving from one paradigm to another.

1) You can't judge and interface by the look on screen shots or in person. To truly judge how well a product does it job you need time to play with it. Yes look is important but in the long run it is feel that wins. I have spent too many meetings in my life where decisions are based solely on looks. On a power point slide.. Rather than actually looking at how well it actually does its task. I just had a meeting yesterday that did exactly that... Usability concerns were tossed out the window for what the person leading the meeting felt was cool no matter what user task related issue the feature created. 

I remember a thread being created around a new interface that FIOS was getting ready to deploy. There were comments in that thread regarding how better the interface was compared to Dish and DirecTVs interfaces. I said the same comments there than I say here.. Just can't do it without a lot of time spent actually becoming familiar with the interface and using it over time to complete common tasks. But people were getting way to caught up in the bling of the slideware they were seeing. I only have one sample point of someone that actually used the interface and his comment was way to many steps to do anything.. 

Well I will live this thread for others that have both interface experiences to ping in, but I did want to suggest Someguy to come back after some time and update his opinion and to offer up my experiences of what I have read over the last year when these type of topics come up in the E* side of the fence. Since User Experience is an area I am very interested in, I will be interested in hearing peoples opinion on this topic. Good topic for sure...


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

I haven't used either service but I'll reply anyway... :lol: We have a local distributer that has a functional set up for both D* and E*. Very helpful! You can go in and try out the dvr's. Great for easing potential family angst in switching services/dvr's! Easy to switch between systems and one can compare PQ between services and HD versus SD on the same new HDTV. Based on their set-up, there is little difference in PQ between D* and E* for both HD and SD. E* has our locals in SD but D* does not. In my community, E* is creaming D* because they have locals and no need for an antenna. Based on my programming interests, I'll probably switch from cable to D* next year. Our local Fox channel is available only in analog format. PQ is terrible for this local channel on E* and not much better with a roof mounted antenna. SD Fox on our cable system is acceptable (ie not great but better than the alternatives). Gotta have my NFL football this fall! The local switches to digital in 2/09.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I dont like the way dish does their channel lineup (the groupings are just stupid IMO, directv tends to group like channels in similar number areas).

The dish DVRs are reliable, but the interface sucks IMO, and I really actually like the 2 TV feature..would work great for me but alas directv does not have it.

Dish packages also are not the best IMO, they make you be on a high up package for the decent channels.

I have had both (dish at my office, directv at home) and I prefer directv.


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## Hardin Thicke (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm at a crossroads of sorts. I am prepared to switch to HD, and have been examining my options. I am a long-time subscriber to DirecTV/TiVO and have been very satisfied with their DVR, and the programming. But as I understand it, I'm going to need an additional 2 coax lines from my dish for a total of 4 lines. The current pair of coax is buried in the front lawn, for a run of about 70 feet. Dish network as I understand it, multiplexes their signals onto one or two runs of coax making digging up my front lawn unecessary. Fios is not an option, and you'd have to hold a gun to my head to make me go back to my terrestrial cable supplier. So, does Dish multiplex their signals from the antenna?


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

I have had both systems. Right now I have DirectV. I can say that DirectV does need to look at the placing of there channel groups. One example would be right now they have the News channels all over the place. CNN at the real low 200's and Fox, Msnbc, Cnbc, Weather in the middle 350's to 360's. 
I also can say that I did like the E boxes better. My personnel opinion only. I will be going back to Dish after my DirectV contract is up. I never ever had all these lock ups and lost recordings with Dish. They, Dish just seem to have the best HD DVR going right now.


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## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

Dave said:


> I have had both systems. Right now I have DirectV. I can say that DirectV does need to look at the placing of there channel groups. One example would be right now they have the News channels all over the place. CNN at the real low 200's and Fox, Msnbc, Cnbc, Weather in the middle 350's to 360's.
> I also can say that I did like the E boxes better. My personnel opinion only. I will be going back to Dish after my DirectV contract is up. I never ever had all these lock ups and lost recordings with Dish. They, Dish just seem to have the best HD DVR going right now.


I have to agree with you. E has the better HDDVR hands down! If they change the sats on E to where I can get all of the programming ,I would switch back to E in a heart beat. I love the programming at D but the DVR sucks. I mean really my cheap DVD player has far more capabilities than the HR21.


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## somguy (Oct 2, 2006)

DISH NETWORK – ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES

ADVANTAGES
1.	Dual buffered tuners.
2.	Picture In Picture.
3.	You can see what tuner a show will record on.
4.	When you hit record on a current show that you’re watching, you can choose how long to record it for.
5.	You can see how much HD and SD record time you have left.
6.	You can delete all upcoming recordings at once.
7.	You can delete all Caller ID calls at once.
8.	You can add an external Hard drive.
9.	You can pay your bill using the DVR.
10.	You have an All Subscription option using the guide showing only your channels that you are subscribed to.
11.	You have the ability to use an off-air antenna (only CBS & ABC showed up for me).
12.	You have the ability to see two and a half hours in the guide on the HD DVR.
13.	Ability to use DISH Pass = Wish List for movies that you would like to see and have recorded.

DISADVANTAGES
1.	You cannot search for a channel or a person.
2.	Title search does not start to auto-populate.
3.	You cannot auto record a show or a season pass using the guide.
4.	You cannot set recording defaults.
5.	You cannot set defaults to keep all shows until you choose to delete them.
6.	You cannot choose a date and time when using the guide.
7.	The guide only shows the next nine days.
8.	Does not offer as much HD channels as DirecTV.
9.	When you tune to a channel that you are not subscribed to, you have to hit channel up or down and cannot use the number pad to change the channel.
10.	Pressing stop does not put regular tv back on.
11.	When behind in a program, you have to choose Live TV first in order to change the channel.
12.	The DVR must daily update in order to update the guide.
13.	The hard drive is very loud.
14.	Poor customer service.
15.	When pausing, you cannot clear out the bar at the bottom of the screen.
16.	Customer service is in the Philippines.
17.	You do not have the ability to force a software update.
18.	When you are fast forwarding a show and you press play, it does not skip back eight seconds.
19.	Fast forwarding is way too fast.
20.	Cinemax is not free.
21.	You cannot hide SD duplicates in the guide.
22.	Picture quality is worse in SD.
23.	You have to use two satellites on your roof instead of one.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rustynails said:


> I have to agree with you. E has the better HDDVR hands down! If they change the sats on E to where I can get all of the programming ,I would switch back to E in a heart beat. I love the programming at D but the DVR sucks. I mean really my cheap DVD player has far more capabilities than the HR21.


Interesting...I've had 3 HD DVR's with DirecTV now for a long time with no significant problems, and really like how they work.

My one neighbor, who is the last in my subdivision with Dish, is on his 3rd unit....the previous 2 had nothing but lockups and self-deleting programs. Most folks here have either DirecTV or cable for their HD.

I guess it depends on who you ask, in terms of this kind of comparison.

Don't even get me started on Comcast... :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


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## 430970 (Nov 21, 2005)

Hardin Thicke said:


> I'm at a crossroads of sorts. I am prepared to switch to HD, and have been examining my options. I am a long-time subscriber to DirecTV/TiVO and have been very satisfied with their DVR, and the programming. But as I understand it, I'm going to need an additional 2 coax lines from my dish for a total of 4 lines. The current pair of coax is buried in the front lawn, for a run of about 70 feet.


Read the DirecTV boards about the SWMline dish that DirecTV is rolling out this year. It does sort of what you say (combines everything at the dish-end) and reduces the requirement to only one satellite cable per SWM capable receiver (the newest HD DVRs is SWM capable). So you can use one of your cables for satellite and one for OTA (if you still want OTA viewing/recording capability). Should be no need to . Plus it lets you use less fancy splitters inside the house and use old house-y wiring kind of stuff if that matters to you.

I'm in the same boat as you, in that I'm on the fence about upgrading. It's not any additional lines, or even a potential $99 up-front free for the DVR. It's the stability of the DVR that worries me. DLB? I can live without. UI? Matter of preference, I'll learn. But my HD Tivo is stable and records what I ask it to 99% of the time. When it does crash (maybe once every couple of months), I reboot it and it goes back to doing everything normally. I've never had to reformat, etc. I know that's not everyone's experience, but it's been mine.

I want all the new HD that's coming out, but I'm simply not willing to "try" a DVR that so many people report so many basic problems with. The WAF is a big zero for a recorder that regularly has unwatchable recordings, requires us to get a refurb from DirecTV, etc.

And again, I know that's not everyone's experience with the HR20/21, but far too many people have had far too bad (i.e. not just minor issues) experiences. I'm pretty gunshy about it. The latest crop of software releases hasn't helped convince me.


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

jcricket said:


> ... I'm simply not willing to "try" a DVR that so many people report so many basic problems with. ... but far too many people have had far too bad (i.e. not just minor issues) experiences...


Your source of facts, please. I read the forums across the web and don't see what you're talking about. The past year has seen nothing but positive comments about the HR20 & HR21 DVRs.

As many posters have commented, I've had mine for quite some time and never experienced a problem with either.

Dave


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## 430970 (Nov 21, 2005)

drded said:


> Your source of facts, please. I read the forums across the web and don't see what you're talking about. The past year has seen nothing but positive comments about the HR20 & HR21 DVRs.


You're kidding right? *Nothing but positive comments*? My source of facts? The DirecTV HD DVR boards right here on DBS Talk. My other source of facts? The frequency of CEs and national releases with additional "stability" fixes - something that would be clearly unnecessary if it were just a few bad boxes or customers.

As I was quite clear in my original post, I'm not saying that everyone, or even a majority of people, are having severe issues with the HR20 and HR21 receivers. But to claim that it's "nothing but positive" is simply laughable. Yes, judging from what I read here, the receivers are light years ahead of where they were a year ago, and DirecTV is to be commended for that. I am a lot closer to considering the switch now than I was in 2007. But DirecTV clearly has some QA/QC problems they haven't yet gotten past, especially judging from the last couple of national releases which reversed a lot of improvements people had seen.

Honestly, I get tired of this whole "its perfect so don't complain", "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" attitude. I'm not claiming the HR20/21 is a POS, or as bad as the original DishPlayer, or that Tivo is the god I pray to. I'm simply stating that while I want to get the additional HD DirecTV is offering, I am concerned about the platform shift, for reliability reasons which I think I have ample reason to be concerned about.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jcricket said:


> You're kidding right? *Nothing but positive comments*? My source of facts? The DirecTV HD DVR boards right here on DBS Talk. My other source of facts? The frequency of CEs and national releases with additional "stability" fixes - something that would be clearly unnecessary if it were just a few bad boxes or customers.


I hate to get in the middle of it...but....most of the interim CE's in the past 6-9 months have been to introduce and test new capabilities and features, with some fixes along the way.

Have tiptoed into the Dish space periodically just to keep informed...I've certainly seen plenty of DVR "issues" with their units.

Your depiction that the purpose of the DirecTV CE program is for "stability" or "fixes" primarily is a grossly inaccurate. Of course, any company with half a brain would introduce fixes for testing during any kind of beta (CE) cycles along the way....but....again, those of us who have been in the CE program for over 1 1/2 years can tell you - the main purpose of for the inreductory testing of new enhancements, features, or capabilties (and no...features and capabilities are not the same).

Are things perfect? - nope - they aren't.......anywhere.


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## Sackchamp56 (Nov 10, 2006)

drded said:


> Your source of facts, please. I read the forums across the web and don't see what you're talking about. The past year has seen nothing but positive comments about the HR20 & HR21 DVRs.
> 
> As many posters have commented, I've had mine for quite some time and never experienced a problem with either.
> 
> Dave


I cant remember the last time I had any issues with my HR20. Its been well over a year since Ive had the slightest problem. Its rock solid as far as I'm concerened.


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## Sackchamp56 (Nov 10, 2006)

jcricket said:


> You're kidding right? *Nothing but positive comments*? My source of facts? The DirecTV HD DVR boards right here on DBS Talk. My other source of facts? The frequency of CEs and national releases with additional "stability" fixes - something that would be clearly unnecessary if it were just a few bad boxes or customers.
> 
> As I was quite clear in my original post, I'm not saying that everyone, or even a majority of people, are having severe issues with the HR20 and HR21 receivers. But to claim that it's "nothing but positive" is simply laughable. Yes, judging from what I read here, the receivers are light years ahead of where they were a year ago, and DirecTV is to be commended for that. I am a lot closer to considering the switch now than I was in 2007. But DirecTV clearly has some QA/QC problems they haven't yet gotten past, especially judging from the last couple of national releases which reversed a lot of improvements people had seen.
> 
> Honestly, I get tired of this whole "its perfect so don't complain", "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" attitude. I'm not claiming the HR20/21 is a POS, or as bad as the original DishPlayer, or that Tivo is the god I pray to. I'm simply stating that while I want to get the additional HD DirecTV is offering, I am concerned about the platform shift, for reliability reasons which I think I have ample reason to be concerned about.


I can attest to the DRAMATIC progess they have made in the stability of the HR20. Like I said in my last post, I cant remember the last time I had even the slightest issue. its been well over a year. When I first got it, different story. i had weekly/sometimes daily red button resets, but it has been rock solid for a long time now. i wouldnt let it deter you at this point. And the mpeg 4 channels are superb.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

somguy said:


> DISH NETWORK - ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES
> 
> ADVANTAGES
> 12.	You have the ability to see two and a half hours in the guide on the HD DVR.


Three hours.



> DISADVANTAGES
> 1.	You cannot search for a channel or a person.


Channel search used to be available on the DISHPlayer (aka UltimateTV 0.9) but has never been on Dish's home-grown receivers. You can search for a person, or anything else in the program description, but the guide isn't as detailed so only the top 2 or 3 stars get listed.


> 2.	Title search does not start to auto-populate.


If you've already found one showing and want to find others, pressing Search will fully populate the field. Does the D* auto-fill drill-down method require knowing the first word of the title?


> 3.	You cannot auto record a show or a season pass using the guide.


Highlight the show, press Record, select New Episodes.


> 4.	You cannot set recording defaults.
> 5.	You cannot set defaults to keep all shows until you choose to delete them.


You can change the default 1 min early/3 late pads and you can tell it to keep only the most recent _n_ episodes on the drive. What other defaults are you referring to?


> 6.	You cannot choose a date and time when using the guide.


You can use the DVR skip buttons to jump a day at a time and/or key in a number of hours followed by the blue Right/Left buttons.


> 9.	When you tune to a channel that you are not subscribed to, you have to hit channel up or down and cannot use the number pad to change the channel.


This is a valid long-standing gripe. How long? March 1996. But since this is about DVRs, you will of course be watching programs you've already recorded from subscribed channels, on your own schedule, and not be worried about that which you do not get. If you still occasionally surf, you will use the AllSub guide list and learn to key in the next hundred block when you approach the PPVs.


> 11.	When behind in a program, you have to choose Live TV first in order to change the channel.


The Advantages section is up there.  I actually usually do choose to dump what I haven't watched, but not always.


> 13.	The hard drive is very loud.


This of course is a unit-specific problem that can happen with any provider's equipment.


> 15.	When pausing, you cannot clear out the bar at the bottom of the screen.


Press the skip buttons (act as frame-adv/rev in pause mode), hope the picture stays close to where you want).


> 18.	When you are fast forwarding a show and you press play, it does not skip back eight seconds.


Press Skip Back instead of Play.


> 19.	Fast forwarding is way too fast.


Your choice of 4x, 15x, 60x, 300x.


> 20.	Cinemax is not free.


Send me a SASE and I'll give you the penny. 


> 21.	You cannot hide SD duplicates in the guide.


Use the AllHD guide list (press Guide repeatedly to cycle through the default lists).


> 23.	You have to use two satellites on your roof instead of one.


Dish Network is so much better they've figured out how to put the satellites in space! (well, most of the time) It depends on which part of the country you're in whether you get one dish or two. Later this fall the eastern part of the country will also have a 1-dish solution.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

somguy said:


> DISH NETWORK - ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES
> DISADVANTAGES
> 1. You cannot search for a channel or a person.
> 2. Title search does not start to auto-populate.
> ...


Lot of subjective disadvantages here and personally don't see any that I would classify as major show stoppers for my use cases. You forgot to add ability to record 3 streams at one time (Huge Advantage) and dual room DVRs (Another). Couple I am not clear of and maybe I misunderstand them, but here are my responses to them.

10. What do you mean by this. Stop does stop when you are watching a recorded show. There is also a view live button that is useful. 
16. All Customer Service is not in the Phillippines.
21. What do you mean... Look in the local configuration channel. You can also do this by locking channels and enabling hide channel locks. 
15. try pressing the jump forward button to remove the bar.
11. It prompts you here to prevent one from changing channels while in the buffer assuming you are not down viewing. To me.. this is actually a good thing and has saved me more than once form an accidental channel change. 
6. Jump forward goes 24 hours and press a number and use left right buttons to go ahead a number of hours.
23. Installation dependent. 
20. There is a 1 penny Autopay Cinemex deal.. is Free Cinimex in DirecTV a promotional thing?
13. I have a 622 & 722. I don't find my hard drives loud at all. 
2) Got to EPG and press Search. It will autofill with title.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I hate to get in the middle of it...but....most of the interim CE's in the past 6-9 months have been to introduce and test new capabilities and features, with some fixes along the way.
> 
> Have tiptoed into the Dish space periodically just to keep informed...I've certainly seen plenty of DVR "issues" with their units.
> 
> ...


Totally agree here... I read the posts of the D* guys when the new DVRs first hit the streets and it was tough over in there forum. Same thing happens when Dish release new boxes and with each software release some people seem to be effected by issues and at times a whopper gets out.

There a lots of people on the Dish Side very happy with their boxes.. It is shown ever time someone asks that specific questions. I am sure there are similar people on the D* side of the fence. There are also people that fall into the frustrated group and people that have had multiple box swaps on both sides of the fence.

As for stability. I am sure both companies roll out stability fixes as they test the software.

Bottom line.... I don't think anyone can draw conclusions from the forums here in terms of which box is more stable. Where I would look towards is features sets and content. For me both deliver the content i watch and Dish delivers a 3 stream at one time box which I use a lot and find the boxes very easy to use. I personally have not used DirecTVs box so I can't provide a comparision opinion.. Just an opinion of what makes the Vip 722 an excellent box and it comes down to 3 things.

1) Dual Buffer. 
2) PIP side/Side
3) EHD support
4) 3 Stream recording (2 DishHD/1 OTA)

I am sure DirecTVs boxes have some excellents features too... Whenever this discussion comes up... I always make the comment. Content is the first factor for anyone and DVR (DVR user) features come second. I think both companies have strong offerings in this area compared to cable competition. As to which one is better... I think arguing this point is actually very subjective and based on all the posts I have read there is no clear winner. Just two excellent choices and depending on one's top 10 features of a Content Provider a person would give one or the other the node.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I have both E* and D*. If I had to choose one, I would choose D* because of specific programming, MSG HD, MSG+ HD and MLB EI HD.

I agree with the comment about going back to Live TV. The E* feature about hitting swap is just one extra step that should not be necessary. However, that is not a reason to pick one over the over. Actually, the Fios DVR is the best for going
back to live TV. I have Fios in addition to E* and D*.

I like surfing on E* better and when I am done with watching sports, I go to E* and surf. The D* channel lineup is more cumbersome to surf and the software is
slower. Not having Voom anymore has taken away some of the E* surfing appeal, but I still surf E* over D*. Also, I have HD locals hooked up OTA with E*. Can"t do that with my D* HR 21. But D* includes locals and E* does not.

I agree that the two TV DVR feature is useless on E*. I said that when the 622 first came out and a lot of people on this board disagreed. A second SD tuner is
useless for many subs, because once HD gets a foothold, many subs are not
going to have SD sets anymore. E signed the Voom deal and for two years E* seemed to forget about HD and did not move fast enough to improve the HD lineup. The one SD one HD tuner was representative of E*'s thinking that HD was
like a fad that only a handful of subs would embrace and splurge on one HD set.
E* did not have the vision that the industry changed, there were new competitors
and HD was going to be the new engine of growth.

The telephone line is a pain in the neck. I have two of them hooked up and have gotten used to it. But it is an outmoded feature that E* should eliminate.
As far as PQ, D* and E* are equal or very similar. E* is a little better with rain fade. My only rain fade problem is summer thunderstorm activity.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Hound said:


> A second SD tuner is useless for many subs, because once HD gets a foothold, many subs are not going to have SD sets anymore.


The second tuner is HD. The TV2 _output_ downconverts everything to NTSC whether it is HD from tuner 1 or HD from tuner 2. Agree about the diminishing appeal of such a product.


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## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:
 

> Interesting...I've had 3 HD DVR's with DirecTV now for a long time with no significant problems, and really like how they work.
> 
> My one neighbor, who is the last in my subdivision with Dish, is on his 3rd unit....the previous 2 had nothing but lockups and self-deleting programs. Most folks here have either DirecTV or cable for their HD.
> 
> ...


I've had zero problems with my HR21. I just can't stand it as a DVR compared with the functionality of the VIP722. I guess that I will just have to live with it. We can't have everything in life that we want. Our local cable company is a different one than yours but I got fed up with them over 10 years ago and haven't looked back. D or E is far superior to cable.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Hound said:


> I have both E* and D*. If I had to choose one, I would choose D* because of specific programming, MSG HD, MSG+ HD and MLB EI HD.
> 
> I agree with the comment about going back to Live TV. The E* feature about hitting swap is just one extra step that should not be necessary. However, that is not a reason to pick one over the over. Actually, the Fios DVR is the best for going
> back to live TV. I have Fios in addition to E* and D*.


On the HR20 or HR21 while watching a recorded show you simply hit the "PREV" button and it will go back to the live channel. Hit is again and it goes back to the recorded show exactly where you left off. 


> I like surfing on E* better and when I am done with watching sports, I go to E* and surf. The D* channel lineup is more cumbersome to surf and the software is
> slower. Not having Voom anymore has taken away some of the E* surfing appeal, but I still surf E* over D*. Also, I have HD locals hooked up OTA with E*. *Can"t do that with my D* HR 21*. But D* includes locals and E* does not.


With an AM21 add on you can. You can order one from Direct for $50 or may be able to negotiate to get one for free.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

somguy said:


> I have now had the chance to experience both Directv and DISH.
> I switched to DISH due to all of the HD DVR glitches/issues that I had hoping, and maybe some wishful thinking on my part, that DISH would be better and unfortunately I was wrong.
> Considering that DISH is only $5 cheaper for me per month, than it all came down to Features on my DVR.
> Granted DISH has some cool features like PIP and dual live tuner buffers, but by far Directv outways them in features and ease of use. It is so much easier to set defaults and recordings, etc. with Directv that I feel that they are the lesser of the 2 evils. Plus they also offer much more HDTV. The picture quality was worse and I had multiple spontaneous reboots with DISH. Plus there is too many extra things you have to do to either record a show or go back to Live TV, etc. and therefore much more of a hassel than Directv.
> ...


Well it's a proven fact that the best DirecTV customers are exDish customers and I'm the proof!.

I had Dish for 4 1/2 years never had a DVR reason everyone was griping what a POS they were that was the 921 Dish's 1st HDDVR.Then Charlie was going to buy DirecTV then that fell through but after that Dish's DVR's got better.

Then one morning I woke up and found several channels missing.I went online and found out that Dish was in negotiations with channel providers and there was no agreement.That was just one of the reasons I switched to DirecTV.The other reasons being Dish's "because we can" fees and we're not putting that channel on because the provider want too much money,so we are saving you money.Then that next Feb. my package price went up $3. a month.

Now I'm with DirecTV never had a DirecTivo but have the R15-500and R22-100.I never really cared that much for sports but I do like that DirecTV carries several national basic channels that Dish does not.Also like that DirecTV carries both feeds of HBO Family as I am into Family programming.

I do enjoy having a 90 minute live buffer with the DirecTV's DVRs.Also I belong to DirecTV's Cutting Edge program a program designed to improve DirecTV's first in house DVRs.So to me that's a first a company who will put their money where their customer's interests are.So far I have been happy with DirecTV(2 years).I never thought I would ever have DirecTV.I also like the way DirecTV "grandfathers" you into your package.


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## somguy (Oct 2, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> On the HR20 or HR21 while watching a recorded show you simply hit the "PREV" button and it will go back to the live channel. Hit is again and it goes back to the recorded show exactly where you left off.
> 
> With an AM21 add on you can. You can order one from Direct for $50 or may be able to negotiate to get one for free.


Do you know if anyone has yet been able to negotiate one for free? I have been able to use my antenna for 5 years now, but with my HR21 I cannot. Maybe if I was a new customer I'd have to pay this $50 but I feel that they gave it to me for 5 years and now I have to pay $50 to use what I used to use for free?! What's up with that?!!!


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

somguy said:


> Do you know if anyone has yet been able to negotiate one for free? I have been able to use my antenna for 5 years now, but with my HR21 I cannot. Maybe if I was a new customer I'd have to pay this $50 but I feel that they gave it to me for 5 years and now I have to pay $50 to use what I used to use for free?! What's up with that?!!!


I agree with you man but, a new customer has a better chance of getting one for free than an exsisting customer. E* gives away free 722 to new customers that has it built in. D* might try to match the deal by giving an ota tuner for free but why would they give you something for free that makes then absolutly zero dollars? D* seems to want to get away from the ota scene anyways.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Will DirecTV add DLB to a HR20/21 for free to match DISH's 722? 

DirecTV has their product offering, DISH has theirs. They are different.
Expect that there will be features on one that won't be on the other.
If you can swing something "free", congratulations.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

James Long said:


> Will DirecTV add DLB to a HR20/21 for free to match DISH's 722?
> 
> DirecTV has their product offering, DISH has theirs. They are different.
> Expect that there will be features on one that won't be on the other.
> If you can swing something "free", congratulations.


Good points James.

I prefer the overall packages, pricing, HD channels, and specialty offerings (NFL Ticket) from DirecTV...but....everyone has their own tastes in programming. DLB does nothing for me in terms of added value.

I would never think to decide on one provider or the other on something as simple as an HD DVR capability...unless I planned to use it daily and could not get it from anyone else.

Both Dish and DirecTV have their own benefits.

You are absolutely right on pointing out that they are different, but "better" is in the eyes of the beholder.


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## kal915 (May 7, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good points James.
> 
> I prefer the overall packages, pricing, HD channels, and specialty offerings (NFL Ticket) from DirecTV...but....everyone has their own tastes in programming. DLB does nothing for me in terms of added value.
> 
> ...


If i cared about NFL or MLB, i would switch to Directv in a heartbeat, that's why i'll stay where i am. And also because it's cheaper


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## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

Really, both providers are in unique positions. Dish, however, is known for carriage problems and oddities going back to the days of yore. Oxygen. YES Network. OLN/Versus. Lifetime. CourtTV. Noggin/The N. MSG HD. Just read the Channel Chart archives and you'll see that.

DirecTV is a lot harder to find resources on (there's no channel chart due to its use of proprietary software, while Dish is DVB).

If you're in New York, get DirecTV because of the major sports holes.


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## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

Yea, it seems E* spends way too much time either suing or being sued. Usually more of the latter. :nono:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

EXTACAMO said:


> Yea, it seems E* spends way too much time either suing or being sued. Usually more of the latter. :nono:


Let's keep it civil gents. 

Both services have benefits and drawbacks, which is why both have millions of subscribers.

In the spirit of the OP...here is an objective comparison of services....its' not quite current, but close enough...

http://www.13donuts.com/sat-tv.html


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## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Let's keep it civil gents.
> 
> Both services have benefits and drawbacks, which is why both have millions of subscribers.
> 
> ...


Civility has nothing to do with it. As a E* sub for 10+ yrs. it was just an observation I feel I'm qualified to make. Furthermore I feel it is something a potential new customer should be aware of.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

EXTACAMO said:


> Civility has nothing to do with it. As a E* sub for 10+ yrs. it was just an observation I feel I'm qualified to make. Furthermore I feel it is something a potential new customer should be aware of.


Nothng wrong with *your *observation...


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## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nothng wrong with *your *observation...


And thanks for the link. I found it very informative. A must see for anyone considering DBS.


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## Cable Lover (Jun 19, 2007)

Insight Cable is the best of all of them.


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## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

I think the title of the thread was E* vs D*. There was no mention of cable.:raspberry


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> http://www.13donuts.com/sat-tv.html


I suspect that this one's a little dated as it shows E* carrying MLB EI. It does provide some useful criteria.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> I suspect that this one's a little dated as it shows E* carrying MLB EI. It does provide some useful criteria.


It has some dated info as I stated in a caveat in the post...but...it is objective and really designed to compare the services offered by each, rather than taking the pro vs con approach.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

Cable Lover said:


> Insight Cable is the best of all of them.


Cable is best if you prefer an inferior picture, inferior service, inferior HD quality and selection.


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## Toilet_Thunder (Aug 6, 2008)

Which company experiences the least outages/problems? I've got a scheduled install for Dish later this month, but the more I read: dropped channels, contract disputes, ect ect ect, I'm starting to second guess my choice.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You'll always see the negatives ... people don't complain about how well a system runs. 

There are a few HD channels that probably would be there if DISH caved to every program provider and raised rates to cover the expense ... and Voom's HD channels were dropped because Voom failed to live up to their side of a contract. There have been a few channels that have left temporarily because of a dispute, but I can't recall any (other than Voom - so far) that didn't come back.

So far none of the 'disputed' channels were ones I missed. Viacom's a few years ago were the closest to being missed but that again illustrates remembering the negatives ... there was a big blow up at the time, the channels came back and DISH remained profitable. No permanent harm.


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## Toilet_Thunder (Aug 6, 2008)

Apparently DTV doesn't carry my locals in HD yet. I'm 20min outside of Chicago?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Both companies have Chicago HD locals ...
DISH and DirecTV both carry the four major networks plus WGN9 in HD.


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