# 3 R15's and 2 different outcomes



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

On Friday I have SG-1 and SGA set to record on all three R15's. My roomate records it (basement) and I record it on the both of ours one as a backup (bedroom) and the one in the living as the main, which I then record to the pc and burn to DVD for my parents. The basement and the bedroom R15 recorded with no issues but the R15 in the living room messed up. 

When I sat down Sunday night to watch the recording and capture it to the PC I had no SG1 and the last 17 mins of SGA. I desided to take a look at history (at this point I didn't know if I had it on the other two R15's) and history showed SGA as a partial an no info on SG1. So I deleted the SGA and went back to look at the history and there was no info on either show.

Anyone have any ideas how this might have happened? I'm stumped, I know the history is useless as it is right now but it usally would at least show that the show was "cancel" in the history. And it's even weirder that SGA disappeared in the history after I deleted it in MYVOD. No one was home at the time this was recording and it wasn't used on Sat at all either. The power didn't go out or I wouldn't have it on any of the R15's.

I really hope they get the partials fixed in this next release. I hate missing a whole show when I could just miss a min or two of it. Thankfully I have the them on the bedroom R15 and I will just download them to burn to disk for my parents.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Was the R15 in your living room by chance on a Mix Channel? Were you watching anything or was it in StandBy?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

It wasn't on the mix channel (I never use them). And it was in standby.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> So I deleted the SGA and went back to look at the history and there was no info on either show.


History has always purged deleted shows from it's list, hasn't it?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> History has always purged deleted shows from it's list, hasn't it?


No, it showed them as 'canceled'. If it didn't record, you deleted from the todo list, or you deleted it from MYVOD, they'd all show canceled. Unless they changed the history in 10C8 to make it even more useless.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> The basement and the bedroom R15 recorded with no issues but the R15 in the living room messed up.


The only thing I can see is it was the R-15 that you use most that messed up.

It sounds like it might have been reset/power surge/power out (missed recording and a partial recording with nothing in the history for the missed recording). Almost like it was unplugged for the first show and then plugged back in for the partial. I know the others worked but maybe on a different circuit or something ?

Does this one have more SL's than the others ? Did you do anything in the Prioritizer or some searches anytime even a day or two before that ?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> The only thing I can see is it was the R-15 that you use most that messed up.
> 
> It sounds like it might have been reset/power surge/power out (missed recording and a partial recording with nothing in the history for the missed recording). Almost like it was unplugged for the first show and then plugged back in for the partial. I know the others worked but maybe on a different circuit or something ?
> 
> Does this one have more SL's than the others ? Did you do anything in the Prioritizer or some searches anytime even a day or two before that ?


Could have been the powerstrip but the clock was fine and the computer was still on (with ie search windows open) and ok.

SL's are about the same as the one in the bedroom, they get use about the same amount so 42 or 43 SL's on each. I don't remember doing anything in the prioritizer lately. The other werid thing about a powersurge and SG1 is that it's on twice so I can understand a SGA partial but there is no SG1 at all. I would have expected it to pickup the second showing if it didn't get the first.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Could have been the powerstrip but the clock was fine and the computer was still on (with ie search windows open) and ok.
> 
> SL's are about the same as the one in the bedroom, they get use about the same amount so 42 or 43 SL's on each. I don't remember doing anything in the prioritizer lately. The other weird thing about a powersurge and SG1 is that it's on twice so I can understand a SGA partial but there is no SG1 at all. I would have expected it to pickup the second showing if it didn't get the first.


I doubt a power problem. You're talking about one complete 60 minute show and 43 minutes of another missing. It doesn't take the R15 103 minutes to boot. A power surge would cause a reboot but it would be up and running soon after. You missed a complete show and 43 minutes of another. That doesn't fit into any power related recording loss scenario the R15 has demonstrated before. Sure it will loose what it's recorded when the power incident happens but then it will record the partial. If you had only a partial of SGA and SG1 recorded then I could support the power problem theory. But missing SG1 all together and then the beginning of SGA doesn't sound like a power problem to me.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> But missing SG1 all together and then the beginning of SGA doesn't sound like a power problem to me.


That's the same page I'm on. If it had two partials I could see that but not have the SG1 at all is what boggles my mind. I even thought about the possiblity of me removing SG1 off the todo list by accident, but there's no way I would have deleted it off the todo list twice by accident so if I did that it should have still recorded the second showing of it. I even thought of the possiblity of over heating but I have drilled holes in the back of the entertainment center and have been leaving the doors open went the 1.5 yr old isn't in the room. Plus everyone that has had a heat issues said that the R15 was stuck and had to be unplugged or red button reset.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Regarding the History - I did some testing this evening. My History is maxed out at 50. The last entry was correct, something recorded today at 4:30. Every entry was either recorded or partial. I went through MyVOD and deleted all those partials (BTW - I have at least 75 entries in MyVOD). History was still at 50. I also watched and deleted several shows. History still at 50 - all "recorded".

Apparently, History lists the last 50 items. It doesn't list deleted items. If one or more of those last 50 are deleted, it repopulates the list with the "new" last 50 items from the MyVOD.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

At this point DTV should just disable"History". It doesn't mean anything and is completely useless. All it does is take up processing time from real functions. Until "History" is addressed by the developers, just remove it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Apparently, History lists the last 50 items. It doesn't list deleted items. If one or more of those last 50 are deleted, it repopulates the list with the "new" last 50 items from the MyVOD.


:down: :down: That means they changed it to make even more useless. It use at least show you canceled if it was deleted out of MYVOD, or canceled from the todo list. This is definitely a downgrade, now we have no idea if the program was ever recorded.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> :down: :down: That means they changed it to make even more useless. It use at least show you canceled if it was deleted out of MYVOD, or canceled from the todo list. This is definitely a downgrade, now we have no idea if the program was ever recorded.


Hmm, I didn't try deleting something from ToDo to see what happened. I know I've seen those as canx in the History in the past.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Hmm, I didn't try deleting something from ToDo to see what happened. I know I've seen those as canx in the History in the past.


My history use to only go back one or two day because of all the canceled from deleting things from the todo list and MYVOD. Now I can see back at least a week if not more, I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single canceled.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> :down: :down: That means they changed it to make even more useless. It use at least show you canceled if it was deleted out of MYVOD, or canceled from the todo list. This is definitely a downgrade, now we have no idea if the program was ever recorded.


I haven't looked at history in FOREVER as it was useless to begin with, but I am curious.....are all of you reporting that it no longer displays 'cancelled' on 10C8?

Is this a change (downgrade) in the latest update, or had it happened previously at some point?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

wohlfie said:


> I haven't looked at history in FOREVER as it was useless to begin with, but I am curious.....are all of you reporting that it no longer displays 'cancelled' on 10C8?
> 
> Is this a change (downgrade) in the latest update, or had it happened previously at some point?


That is correct it changed with 10C8. It doesn't seem to have canceled in there anymore.

Earl, Has your contact said anything about this at all? I'm not sure why they'd make history less useful then it was before. Maybe it's an effort to keep the unit from locking up?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Earl, Has your contact said anything about this at all? I'm not sure why they'd make history less useful then it was before. Maybe it's an effort to keep the unit from locking up?


Maybe that's in response to comments such as "How could the History screen be any less useful?" :lol:

I see the same here. Items cancelled from TDL are not shown in History under 10C8.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Maybe that's in response to comments such as "How could the History screen be any less useful?" :lol:


 :lol:


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Do you really think that makes it less useful? Personally, I can't see why I would want to see something I deleted in there. Now that I think about it, I'm not really sure what I'm looking _for_ in History. Maybe some indication of why something I had scheduled didn't record?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Do you really think that makes it less useful? Personally, I can't see why I would want to see something I deleted in there. Now that I think about it, I'm not really sure what I'm looking _for_ in History. Maybe some indication of why something I had scheduled didn't record?


I would like to see in the history something I deleted, maybe User Deleted, Failed to Record with a more in depth reason why, box rebooted, software upgraded and so forth. I also think it shouldn't be limited to the last 50 items. Say make the log a couple megs and have it roll. I want my logs to tell me whats going on not just some generic stuff like is there now. Right now it's all but useless to me.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> ...Failed to Record with a more in depth reason why, box rebooted, software upgraded and so forth.


That, I'd definitely like to see.

Actually, I never want to see it fail to record!


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

qwerty said:


> That, I'd definitely like to see.
> 
> Actually, I never want to see it fail to record!


I agree but if it did fail to record something or say only records part of it. I would like to know why it happened.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Do you really think that makes it less useful? Personally, I can't see why I would want to see something I deleted in there. Now that I think about it, I'm not really sure what I'm looking _for_ in History. Maybe some indication of why something I had scheduled didn't record?


Yes it does. Like Clint said. I want to know why the box did what it did or if it I did something. The UTV would let you know if there was a power issue, sat. singal lost, you deleted something, canceled by the broadcaster, reschuduled, etc. I knew alot more about why things didn't record. The 50 limit is a bit of an issue with me, but the other issue I have is that everything is based of the recording date not the date it happened. If I deleted a show today that recorded yeseterday it would show it was deleted yesterday (or at least that's what it did we it was showing deleted recordings).


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

As does the Tivo. It will show that it wasn't recorded because "someone in your house cancelled the recording", deleted the show, there was a scheduling conflict and what show was recorded, it wasn't recorded due to the 28 day rule....and so on.

Maybe the R15 developers should all be given a Tivo to use and pay attention to the amount of info that is available in History. Ah, but that won't work either and they know it. History is stored in memory, just like the guide. Those guys are probably running into all sorts of problems with the basic design as most everything is in memory.

Wonder how many meetings they're having in discussion of a complete redesign. Wonder if the HR20 has the same limitations as the R15.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> Wonder how many meetings they're having in discussion of a complete redesign. Wonder if the HR20 has the same limitations as the R15.


I can't help but think that the hr20 is so late to market for this very reason. It's been 9 months now since they started rolling out mpeg4 LILs with NO HD dvr capability. That's either extremely poor planning, or severe development problems. I think they must realize what a firestorm of criticism will arise if they release the hr20 with the same inherent problems that the r15 has.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> As does the Tivo. It will show that it wasn't recorded because "someone in your house cancelled the recording", deleted the show, there was a scheduling conflict and what show was recorded, it wasn't recorded due to the 28 day rule....and so on.
> 
> Maybe the R15 developers should all be given a Tivo to use and pay attention to the amount of info that is available in History. Ah, but that won't work either and they know it. History is stored in memory, just like the guide. Those guys are probably running into all sorts of problems with the basic design as most everything is in memory.
> 
> Wonder how many meetings they're having in discussion of a complete redesign. Wonder if the HR20 has the same limitations as the R15.


I forgot about the 28 day rule, UTV would also let you know if it didn't record because of that too.

It's odd that they would cripple such a simple thing as history. I assume that other DVR's must have useful info in history since the UTV and Tivo do. Just another one of life's mysterys I guess.

I did look back at my history a little bit yeseterday and there are still a few cancels from before the update so it didn't clear the list and start new they just changed it and it's really, really useless now.


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## beakersloco (Mar 7, 2006)

I also had a problem friday night with the same shows and it seems that my dvr sometimes likes to just not record the shows that I set. I almost want to reset the thing and set all my programs again but that would take too long as thier are about 30 programs that I would have to add again. 


SG1 only recorded the last 20 mins . SGA Im not sure as I happened to get home in time to watch the last t 10 mins of SG1 the 2nd time it comes on and then went to watch the recorded one and realized that it did not record the entire show so I decided to watch SGA (luckly I realized all of this after SGA came on and while the first set of commercials were playing) in case their was a problem with it. I watched it pausing it for about 15 mins so that I could watch it with out the commercials after I realized that SG1 did not record properly. I then deleted the recorded SGA without looking to see how much if it recorded.


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## beakersloco (Mar 7, 2006)

What is the 28 day rule ?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

beakersloco said:


> What is the 28 day rule ?


Tivos have a rule called the 28 day rule. It will not record any show that it has already recorded in the past 28 days regardless if the show has already been deleted. You can override this if you wish but it comes in handy when you are recording/watching/deleting shows that play often and when working with wishlists.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

28 day rule is a logic code in the TiVo powered units.

If it identifies a program that you want to record... but the unit has already recorded it in the last 28 days... it won't record it again, unless you specifically tell it to over ride.

It is one of TiVo's methods to handle poorly identified programs in the guide data... and to help eliminate more duplicate recordings.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is one of TiVo's methods to handle poorly identified programs in the guide data... and to help eliminate more duplicate recordings.


Actually, it doesn't work on poorly identified programs. It only works on programs with unique episode IDs.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Handy for HBO type series where the new episode is replayed 5 or 10 times during the week. If you record, watch and delete it, it won't record the next showing.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Tivos have a rule called the 28 day rule.


This isn't limited to Tivo's. The UTV had this too and I believe most other DVR's have this too (at least I think I remember other DVR users posting that they did have this too).


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

The R15 seems to have something. HBO is a good example. When I record, watch & delete an episode of Deadwood, it doesn't re-record the next showing.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

qwerty said:


> The R15 seems to have something. HBO is a good example. When I record, watch & delete an episode of Deadwood, it doesn't re-record the next showing.


My experience has beent he exact opposite. I would record Dr. Who Friday night, and watch it late Friday when I got home or the next morning. Then delete it. It would ALWAYS re-record it...I think sometime on Sunday....


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

It depends on the channel. I have had good luck with HBO too but MTV,COM, E and a few others are real bad.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

wohlfie said:


> My experience has beent he exact opposite. I would record Dr. Who Friday night, and watch it late Friday when I got home or the next morning. Then delete it. It would ALWAYS re-record it...I think sometime on Sunday....


Hmmm, I was looking at this more from a First Run point of view. Maybe because you have Dr. Who set to record repeats?


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Hmmm, I was looking at this more from a First Run point of view. Maybe because you have Dr. Who set to record repeats?


Nope. I do not.

And same thing happens with The Daily Show. It will record at 10:00 PM, and if I watch it later that night and delete it, It will re-record the next showing....either at midnight or 7:am.

As far as I can tell, the ONLY way it determines wether it has already recorded something (first run or repeat...it doesn't matter) is if it is still sitting in MyVOD.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

qwerty said:


> Hmmm, I was looking at this more from a First Run point of view. Maybe because you have Dr. Who set to record repeats?


On Tivos you had to have Dr Who set to record repeats as Tivos work properly. The original shows aired last year and so on a Tivo if it was set to record first run it never recorded Dr. Who.

However, I had my Tivo set to record repeats of Dr Who and it still only recorded one showing of an episode no matter how many times it was aired.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I didn't know there was a new Dr. Who series. I thought we were talking about the original. That's why I assumed the SL was set for repeats.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> On Friday I have SG-1 and SGA set to record on all three R15's. My roomate records it (basement) and I record it on the both of ours one as a backup (bedroom) and the one in the living as the main, which I then record to the pc and burn to DVD for my parents. The basement and the bedroom R15 recorded with no issues but the R15 in the living room messed up.
> 
> When I sat down Sunday night to watch the recording and capture it to the PC I had no SG1 and the last 17 mins of SGA. I desided to take a look at history (at this point I didn't know if I had it on the other two R15's) and history showed SGA as a partial an no info on SG1. So I deleted the SGA and went back to look at the history and there was no info on either show.
> 
> ...


You have just described my worst nightmare scenario that I could ever imagine happening to me with a DirecTV/NDS DVR. Had this happened to me, I would be so mad that I would use every means possible to annhilate all carbon-based life forms on this planet, singlehandedly. This is why I'll wait on a DirecTV/NDS DVR.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

qwerty said:


> I didn't know there was a new Dr. Who series. I thought we were talking about the original. That's why I assumed the SL was set for repeats.


Realitively new...newer than old. I think it aired in 2005 in the UK and then came over here on SciFi with the original 2005 air dates so flagging it as a first run would not get the show recorded with Tivo.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I got a 300 installed yesterday. I've recorded/watched and deleted 3 recordings. Contrary to my early posts, they're in the History as canx.

Must be some kind of priority to the History? If you've got more than 50 recordings in your MyVOD, and you delete one, History repopulates with the next oldest recording in your MyVOD. If you've got less than 50 (History has the room) it will show deleted recordings as canx. That's my guess, anyway.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

qwerty said:


> I got a 300 installed yesterday. I've recorded/watched and deleted 3 recordings. Contrary to my early posts, they're in the History as canx.
> 
> Must be some kind of priority to the History? If you've got more than 50 recordings in your MyVOD, and you delete one, History repopulates with the next oldest recording in your MyVOD. If you've got less than 50 (History has the room) it will show deleted recordings as canx. That's my guess, anyway.


It might be that 300 isn't updated yet? Or maybe only the 500 is doing this?


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I guess I should have mentioned that the 300 is on 1047.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

OK. My 500 suddenly started showing Canx in History for deleted shows. Started Tuesday, and doesn't do it for all of them. :shrug:


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