# 622 losing lock on ALL sats from 12-3pm everyday...what gives?



## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi folks,

I tried searching for this answer, but nothing so far.

Here is my situation...

1. EVERYDAY, from about 12pm to 3pm (LA, CA - PST), my 622/Dish 1000 loses locks on ALL birds (no signal at all on all birds/transponders). All other times, sats are locked and performance rocks.
2. Had Dish already come out to fix problem...they identified a problem with the sat dish not "locked down enough"..tighten screws.
3. Problem went away for a week after repair, only to come back again.

Setup

1. Single 622 unit
2. Dish 1000
3. Check switch test indicates problem with one or both switches/connections
4. RG6 cable used (doubt it could be the cause because things worked great for the week)

Dish is scheduled to come out this sat to look at it.

Any ideas on what this could be?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Mando.. that is a strange one. I am in Orange County and I am assure you that i am not loosing lock during that time. 

Are you there when it happens? Do you have a power inserter? if so, what is it hooked up to. Is it not hooked up to some timer is it. 

The fact that it happens at the same time makes me think something external is at the root here.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Mando.. that is a strange one. I am in Orange County and I am assure you that i am not loosing lock during that time.
> 
> Are you there when it happens? Do you have a power inserter? if so, what is it hooked up to. Is it not hooked up to some timer is it.
> 
> The fact that it happens at the same time makes me think something external is at the root here.


Thanks Ron for the quick reply.

Answering your questions, my wife is there during the day when this happens and the times are approximate. Also, I was home sick yesterday and the "event" happened as well (third time I witnessed it).

The 622 is connected to a power conditioner, but no timer at all.

The thing that doesn't make any sense is that for that one week period after the dish tech came out, the sat worked perfectly fine!

I'm a pretty logical kind of guy and this baffles me. The only thing I can remotely logically conclude is that something on the sat loosening up during the day because of the heat, just enough for the sat to slightly move. Then, as the day cools down, what ever it is contracts, bring the sat back into alignment. This is an absolute _long_ shot, but is the only logical conclusion I came up with considering the tech tighten down the nuts when he was up there.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well the next time you lose lock... Check your sat signals and see if you are getting any signal from them. Is there a switch involved in your configuration? 

I know this sounds strange. Any trees in the way? Could it possible be that the wind picks up around this time blowing the trees and blocking signal. I had this happen a long time ago and eventually I chopped the tree down.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Well the next time you lose lock... Check your sat signals and see if you are getting any signal from them. Is there a switch involved in your configuration?
> 
> I know this sounds strange. Any trees in the way? Could it possible be that the wind picks up around this time blowing the trees and blocking signal. I had this happen a long time ago and eventually I chopped the tree down.


When the event happened yesterday, I ran on a check switch process and it failed indicating one or both switch/connections failed and performance would be adversely affected. Also, no signals (0 strength) were available from any bird (110, 119 or 129) or any transponders.

To my knowledge, there is no switch (such as DP444) in the middle of 622 and dish...just a splitter/combiner.

With regards to trees, there are no "direct path" trees around...there are trees around, but none that are in the "direct" path of the sky. Also, the winds have been calm here for the past week.

Thx!


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

There is a switch built into the Dish1000. You won't have an external switch unless you have several other dishes and/or receivers.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Might be a temperature related issue with some component in the system, noon to 3pm is greatest solar heating time. Maybe the switch in the Dish 1000 has temperature problems. Maybe expansion of cables causes loss of connection in the cable itself.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Might be a temperature related issue with some component in the system, noon to 3pm is greatest solar heating time. Maybe the switch in the Dish 1000 has temperature problems. Maybe expansion of cables causes loss of connection in the cable itself.


this is exactly what I'm thinking as well.

now...I just have to convince the dish tech to give me a new switch/dish.


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## laqbn (Oct 6, 2006)

Very interesting, my 622 also lost all 3 sats yesterday during his time period. I'm in Burbank (very close to Pasadena) I don't think the problems are related but i will check today to see if it happens again.



Mando said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I tried searching for this answer, but nothing so far.
> 
> ...


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

laqbn said:


> Very interesting, my 622 also lost all 3 sats yesterday during his time period. I'm in Burbank (very close to Pasadena) I don't think the problems are related but i will check today to see if it happens again.


A friend of mine (right next door to me), has the exact same set up (ClubDish...ty!).

I'll ask him if he's having problems as well.

This may prove to be an interesting thread if we have more than one person with this issue!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Mando - my best guess is that the heat of the day is causing the DP Twin LNB to short out. If your next tech replaces it, I bet that will fix the loss.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Heat-related... but if the skies are clear, is it possible you are getting direct sunlight on the LNBs during those 3 hours of the day?

Just a random thought.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

Mando, just to prove your point to Dish have you thought about setting your 622 to record this problem? I would have it recording about 1/2 hour prior to the usual start of the problem.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Heat-related... but if the skies are clear, is it possible you are getting direct sunlight on the LNBs during those 3 hours of the day?
> 
> Just a random thought.


Question - what effect does direct sunlight on the input points of the LNBs? Also, the dish is the one that receives any type of direct sun (as a focal point), unless you mean if the LNBs receive indirect sun reflections from the dish itself. Hope this makes sense.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Steve H said:


> Mando, just to prove your point to Dish have you thought about setting your 622 to record this problem? I would have it recording about 1/2 hour prior to the usual start of the problem.


Luckily, when the first tech came out, the event was happening...no questions asked 

But, it is a good idea to try and record something during that timeframe. My experience indicates that if I schedule something and the signal is not available, the recording will not happen and in the todo list, will indicate it was not recorded due to signal loss.

The dish tech is scheduled to come out this sat between 12 and 5pm.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My first though was solar transit (sun behind the satellites) but if others in your area are not seeing outages it is likely something else.

Solar transit will affect one orbital slot at a time ... 61.5° then 110° then 119° then 129° then 148°. I'm not home during the day to see it, but tis the season!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mando said:


> Question - what effect does direct sunlight on the input points of the LNBs? Also, the dish is the one that receives any type of direct sun (as a focal point), unless you mean if the LNBs receive indirect sun reflections from the dish itself. Hope this makes sense.


While not easy to do... it may be possible to have direct sunlight on the LNB. That was the question I was actually asking, though I wasn't clear. Receiving direct sunlight on the LNB would definately be hotter than the ambient temperature, so if heat is a problem that would make it worse and could be an explanation of why it is during those hours. I expect it also could cause interference/dispersal as well of the satellite signal, but I'll let people more knowledgable than I tackle that one.

I had not thought about reflecting sunlight... That could be a problem too, but not as much as the direct sunlight to the LNB so I didn't think to ask about that.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

James Long said:


> My first though was solar transit (sun behind the satellites) but if others in your area are not seeing outages it is likely something else.
> 
> Solar transit will affect one orbital slot at a time ... 61.5° then 110° then 119° then 129° then 148°. I'm not home during the day to see it, but tis the season!


I think you are right. In the northern hemisphere, the spring solar transit should be just before the equinox, which is March 21 this year. I'm surprised Dish hasn't put out a press release on it. They usually do.


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## crenita (Apr 18, 2006)

for more than 1 week signal loss on 2 out the 3 Sat's... at approx 6-7pm. and continues for up to 3 hrs. Tech came out replaced the switch and realigned sat. next day same thing. That continued for 3 more days then suddenly Stopped. 
Weather has been good very light rain, in Florida. No known adverse condtions. Called Dish to see if they were having Sat. problems they report NO... but seems funny we are having similar problems on the opposite side of the USA. and with the Time difference 0 3 hrs' difference it would be at the Same time ::eek2:


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## retexan599 (Aug 1, 2006)

Mando said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I tried searching for this answer, but nothing so far.
> 
> ...


I am having virtually the same problem. My setup is: 
Hardware: Receiver: Dish ViP622 Version D; Dish: Dish 1000 on the roof.
-LNBF: DPPLUS for 119 & 110; DISHPRO for 129
OTA Antenna: None
Switch: Unknown
Programming: America's Top 200 + Locals + DishHD
Software: L3.66
Primary Display: TV1: Philips 50PF9631D; TV2: Old Panasonic CRT
Receiver to HDTV connection: Component + Audio Coax (HDMI quit)
Location: Houston, TX
Original installation was done by DISH technician; in service since July, 2006.

For me the problem time period is about 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. CST. All three satellites indicating no signal (white X on red background with Menu/6/1/3). Had a longish session with the DISH tech on phone today running tests; got indications of 'faulty switch' or 'invalid switch code' or 'one of the satellite inputs is not working properly'. I have a service call scheduled for Saturday between 12 & 5 p.m., so I hope the tech is here at the critical time period. I will have a closer look at the position of the sun during those hours tomorrow, but suspect it is in the period of maximum focus on the roof installation. This problem started about 2-3 weeks ago; was ok in afternoon prior to that. Will report results.

Further: After the tech phone session yesterday (switch checks, power off/on, etc.) my signals did not return to normal as they were doing after that 4 p.m. time period; indeed, I now have no signal on any satellite. The Echostar solar outage web page says that yesterday was the 'worst day' of the spring!

http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/pdf/solarstate.pdf

All Subscriber Outages
WORST DAY 8 MAR
TEXAS 4 MAR - 12 MAR 
129 03:50 - 04:10 PM
110 02:30 - 02:50 PM
119 03:10 - 03:30 PM

I looked at the sun direction today, and for my installation, that time period would roughly be when I could draw a straight line from the sun to my LNB's and dish. From other comments here, I am guessing that one or both of my LNB's have now failed. DISH tech is coming tomorrow afternoon. Also perhaps this closed thread is related: 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61281


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

I'll add my specs as well...

Hardware: Receiver: Dish ViP622 Version unknown; Dish: Dish 1000 on the roof.
OTA Antenna: YES - ChannelMaster (model unknown)
Switch: Unknown
Programming: Everything+HD
Software: L3.66
Primary Display: CE Labs CAT5TX HDTV Extender -> Westinghouse 27in LCD HDTV (local loop on Ce Labs unit going to a Sony VPL-10HT Projector); TV2: Old Mitsu CRT
Receiver to HDTV connection: Component + Audio Coax (no HDMI)
Location: Pasadena, CA
Original installation was done by DISH technician; in service since July, 2006 (I believe).


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

As James has mentioned it is solar outage time of year. Not only will the receive birds be affected at this time of year but the uplinks will also be blasted. Since the times all have been listed as between 12 to 4 (area you live will chage the time of day but all the US will be between these hours) this is most likely the problem. BTW direct sunlight on the dish is the same thing as solar outage. It means the sun is directly behind the sat and the dish will be catching the direct rays into the feed of the LNB. I work for a TV station and the network sent out notices for the times of the solar fade. Of course the time period we are affected is shorter due to the fact that we are using a 5 meter dish. The pickup angle of this dish only had a 15 min window of outage. An 18 incher will have a much longer duration and so w/ 3 feeds spread out over 10 degrees it will be of a very much longer period of receiver input overload. So in about a week no one should be experiencing this problem until next fall.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

I should also add that when the 622 finally locked into the birds, the unit began to update it's guide data. When the green bar had reached the end, the unit literally locked up. I left the unit alone and it eventually rebooted on it's own.

When the unit came back, I started to watch TV right away (canceled the updating of the guide data).

About 30 minutes later, I decided to search for a show and it warned me that it need to get the guide data to proceed with the search. So, I let the unit proceed with the update and it didn't have any issues with the update.

So far, it's been good.

Is there a log on the 622 that indicates when the last sat signal loss occurred?


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> As James has mentioned it is solar outage time of year. Not only will the receive birds be affected at this time of year but the uplinks will also be blasted. Since the times all have been listed as between 12 to 4 (area you live will chage the time of day but all the US will be between these hours) this is most likely the problem. BTW direct sunlight on the dish is the same thing as solar outage. It means the sun is directly behind the sat and the dish will be catching the direct rays into the feed of the LNB. I work for a TV station and the network sent out notices for the times of the solar fade. Of course the time period we are affected is shorter due to the fact that we are using a 5 meter dish. The pickup angle of this dish only had a 15 min window of outage. An 18 incher will have a much longer duration and so w/ 3 feeds spread out over 10 degrees it will be of a very much longer period of receiver input overload. So in about a week no one should be experiencing this problem until next fall.


Makes sense...by why aren't other, larger amount of ppl encountering this issue, especially folks that are closer to me? Logic would suggest that solar interference would take out a larger amount of subscribers at the same time.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Most ppl are not watching TV via sat at this time of day. There will be a much smaller sam;le of ppl watching to report the problem. Also the units that are reporting it could be more sensitive to the overload. It is also possible that the LNB's are the problem solar overload and will fail due to it. In the past when I was a sat dealer in was not that unusual for some of my customers to lose an LNB at this time of year due to the overload of the LNB's. The rebooting tends to make me think that this could be the cause and that one of them is going bad and the whole triple LNB feed could go bad. Rebooting like this sometimes is due to switch problems. If you have a built in switch on the feed then it could be going down making the receiver reboot. These are guesses and in a week we will find out if it is solar outage. If you continue to have the problem after then then it is something else like heat or a bad 622.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Most ppl are not watching TV via sat at this time of day. There will be a much smaller sam;le of ppl watching to report the problem. Also the units that are reporting it could be more sensitive to the overload. It is also possible that the LNB's are the problem solar overload and will fail due to it. In the past when I was a sat dealer in was not that unusual for some of my customers to lose an LNB at this time of year due to the overload of the LNB's. The rebooting tends to make me think that this could be the cause and that one of them is going bad and the whole triple LNB feed could go bad. Rebooting like this sometimes is due to switch problems. If you have a built in switch on the feed then it could be going down making the receiver reboot. These are guesses and in a week we will find out if it is solar outage. If you continue to have the problem after then then it is something else like heat or a bad 622.


Gotcha...I will try to convince the dish tech to give me a new triple LNB/switch


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## RandallA (Feb 4, 2005)

Mando said:


> Gotcha...I will try to convince the dish tech to give me a new triple LNB/switch


Solar Outages are happening in California from March 2nd to March 11th but they are happening in 20 minutes periods not hours. My guess is that your problem is the LNBs. There's been heat related problems with some LNBs. I would ask the tech. to replace the LNBs.

For the Solar Outages times:

http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/pdf/solarstate.pdf


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Mando, my husband experienced a similar situation on Wednesday but it was only having problems finding some of the transponders - didn't lose entire satellites. And it only happened on Wednesday; yesterday all was fine.

See my thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81802


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

FYI - It's 9:33am PST and I decided to look at the signal strengths...here are my results...

110 - 67 
119 - 124
129 - 45

I'll post 10:30 results as well.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

It's 10:30am PST and here are my stats...

110 - 91
119 - 90
129 - 90(!)

That's the highest level I've seen for the 129 bird!


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## RandallA (Feb 4, 2005)

Mando said:


> It's 10:30am PST and here are my stats...
> 
> 110 - 91
> 119 - 90
> ...


Mando,

It's helpful to say what transponder you're reading from. For 129 TP31 is usually the highest and the others are in the 60s or 70s for California. For 119 and 110 use TP 11.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

as of 7:55pm...(thx for the hint on transponder)

110 - 88 (t-11)
119 - 96 (t-11)
129 - 80 (t-31)


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

RandallA said:


> Solar Outages are happening in California from March 2nd to March 11th but they are happening in 20 minutes periods not hours. My guess is that your problem is the LNBs. There's been heat related problems with some LNBs. I would ask the tech. to replace the LNBs.
> 
> For the Solar Outages times:
> 
> http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/pdf/solarstate.pdf


That would be 20 mins on each sat which would be 1 hr total. If it is over loading the input to the receiver that would be a total wipe out for the full hr for a Dish 1000. Add to that the outage for each of the uplinks and that could extened it out to more than an hr & a half. So if one were to tune in during each of the 3 outages it would seem longer. I doubt that he is sitting the the entire time watching a blank screen. Also it could be as I have said a bad LNB that is being more adversely affected during this time of the year. I stated that when I was a sat dealer myself every year customers would loose LNB'S because a weak part would start becoming unstable.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

as of 6:24am...

110 - 86 (t-11)
119 - 97 (t-11)
129 - 62 (t-31)

btw - no outage yesterday


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

The best way to eliminate the possibility that it is heat related is to buy a can of freeze spray from Radio Shack or a PC store and hit the LNBs and switch with it while the problem is occurring. Don't spray it on the input or lens of the LNB, spray it liberally on the switch then the housing of the LNB and see if one or the other resolves the issue.


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## retexan599 (Aug 1, 2006)

My original dilemma is at: 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=863037&postcount=20

The Dish Network technician came to the house yesterday. At first he thought that the DPPLUS LNBF was the culprit and changed it out to a newer version, saying that there had been problems with the older versions. However, there were still no signals seen by the ViP622 receiver. Eventually he went up in the attic and when he came down; all the signals were back in the green. He said that he had replaced the connector barrels in the attic; that the original barrels were the 'wrong ones', being 'low frequency'; the new ones he installed were 'high frequency'. I asked why these barrels were failing now (after 8 months of service); he said they had been marginal and had finally failed. I am wondering if the excessive solar radiation during the solar outage period put a heavier than normal strain on my whole system, all the way down to these particular barrels? It is still interesting to me that the solid failure occurred on March 8th, the listed 'worst day' for solar outage in Texas.

He then opined that probably the old DPPLUS LNBF was not the culprit, but he left the new DPPLUS in service because it should give better long term service. He showed me that the new version has a thicker housing.

The tech appeared to be competent, although I think I drew a blank when I brought up the idea of the solar outage.

At any rate, my reception is back in service with all my channels. I did a test of the Check Switch this morning, and still have an error message: "invalid DishPro switch detected code 15, A1" under Satellite input 2. My reception is ok, but wondering if I still have some other barrel problems&#8230;.


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## Mando (Jul 31, 2006)

Ok...the tech came out to take a look at my problem.

He indicated that the dish wasn't "optimally' aimed correctly and also indicating that one of the connectors wasn't properly connected.

Taking things with a grain of salt, I accepted his diagnosis.

So far, no problem. Rock solid.

Opinion on what I think happened?

Solar activity + LNB sensitivity + (maybe - Bad connector) + picky sw on 622, relative to signal tracking = Confused 622 that stalled for hours and, after "giving up," rebooted and reacquired signal.

I've been recording a half-hour show @ 2pm to make sure that the 622 still maintain signal strength. So far, so good.

Hope this helps others out there.


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## rjkluz (Mar 13, 2007)

I am in the mist of the same problem and have almost the exact same set-up. Vip622 with a dish on the roof but also have a SD recevier in the other room. Never have had any issues that I know of on that TV but we do not watch it as much. The 622 worked great for about 3 weeks, then the issues started. We were only getting a signal on 1 receiver. Need to do a hard reset which lasted for about 2 weeks then last signal again. Hard reset fixed the issue for about 1 week. Since I have had a tec out twice and gone through phone support at least 3 times. They have replaced the LNB, spliter(twice), and receiver. This weekend the tec is scheduled to do a complete reinstall. I do have the phone line pluged in so the receiver should be getting all updates needed. I am in WI so the "heat" really should not be an issue. Yesterday was the 1st day above 50 degrees since everything was installed.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s rjkluz. 

Just so you know. Software updates do not come through the phone. They are delivered through the Dish.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

Mando, when I got my first 622 and was having problems one thing that the Dish Field Mgr. found was there were some coax connectors in my system that did not meet the specs for the HD signal. He told me to look at the different connectors, the ones with white plastic in the middle were bad & the ones with blue plastic in the middle were good......................


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Steve H said:


> Mando, when I got my first 622 and was having problems one thing that the Dish Field Mgr. found was there were some coax connectors in my system that did not meet the specs for the HD signal. He told me to look at the different connectors, the ones with white plastic in the middle were bad & the ones with blue plastic in the middle were good......................


These would be the same connectors RETEXAN599 was talking about. The high frequency ones are blue in the center (I have also seen green and red) and the lower frequency ones are white centers.


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