# What are your plans after price freeze expires?



## karrank% (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd make this a poll but lack the expertise.

Exit, stage left?

Endure the unendurable?

Switch "providers"?

If you have to ask for the price of the walletectomy you couldn't afford it


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

karrank% said:


> I'd make this a poll but lack the expertise.
> 
> Exit, stage left?
> 
> ...


If you are asking what to do when your 2 yr. contract is up you basically have 2 options.* Pay the going rate or leave.*


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Same thing I always do... stay with Dish... sometimes I change my programming... but usually within a month or so DirecTV and Time Warner raise their prices too... so the choice of switching to save money is usually only a fleeting thing.


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## John79605 (Feb 10, 2007)

Expecting a $5 increase, I'm considering dropping from AT200 to AT120 to save $15, but they've added a lot to AT200 in the last year or two, like Nat Geo and Science, and we like BBCA, so I'm torn. I need to drop Showtime to save $13, but I want to see Shameless and The Borgias. Decisions, decisions.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Has anything specific been announced? I'm not aware of anything so I have no plans.


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## rajmarie (Apr 3, 2012)

"John79605" said:


> Expecting a $5 increase, I'm considering dropping from AT200 to AT120 to save $15, but they've added a lot to AT200 in the last year or two, like Nat Geo and Science, and we like BBCA, so I'm torn. I need to drop Showtime to save $13, but I want to see Shameless and The Borgias. Decisions, decisions.


Why don't you call and ask if dish can offer you showtime for half off for 6 months offer?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Same thing I always do... stay with Dish... sometimes I change my programming... but usually within a month or so DirecTV and Time Warner raise their prices too... so the choice of switching to save money is usually only a fleeting thing.


+1 I learned my lesson with U-verse.


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## John79605 (Feb 10, 2007)

That's a good idea.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Ill stay and pay my bill like a normal customer with no entitlement issues


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

i'll stay
dish has given me plenty of freebies


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

If the increase is high, drop down a package.

Dish has been way more generous then DTV ever was when I was a sub there.

Hopefully it won't be much of a increase.:nono2:


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

domingos35 said:


> i'll stay
> dish has given me plenty of freebies


Me too...


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## MCHuf (Oct 9, 2011)

satcrazy said:


> If the increase is high, drop down a package.
> 
> Dish has been way more generous then DTV ever was when I was a sub there.
> 
> Hopefully it won't be much of a increase.:nono2:


Same here.

We currently have AT200 plus [email protected] w/722K dvr and it is pretty near the perfect package for us. If it's too large of an increase, we'll drop down to AT120+. But at this point our local cable options aren't that appealing and D* gets pricey after the promos are finished. That's why we stayed on after the AMC channels were dropped.


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## knot (Feb 4, 2010)

If it is a $5 increase I probably gonna cut the cord completely. It would not do us any good to drop down because the few channels we watch are in the at200. We will just go with the roku and OTA.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I've read guesstimates of a $10 increase for each package plus a $10 increase in monthly DVR fees. If this happens I can imagine plenty of subs jumping ship because of the new customer incentives offered by "D" and most cable companies. I can also guess that when you call "E" to cancel you will be offered a plethora of discounts and extra's to stay. After no price increases for 2 years and the $$$ Hit Charlie took in the courts I expect that he'll be making that up somewhere.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Isn't this a silly topic when no one has any factual information?


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

I believe a $10 increase for both packages and equipment would be suicide for DISH. I expect an increase, but not $20. I am already trying to figure out ways to make cuts to programming so I can afford to upgrade to Hopper/Joey system. A gigantic increase like that would force this 16 year customer to jump ship to D* or go OTA exclusive.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

david_jr said:


> I believe a $10 increase for both packages and equipment would be suicide for DISH. I expect an increase, but not $20. I am already trying to figure out ways to make cuts to programming so I can afford to upgrade to Hopper/Joey system. A gigantic increase like that would force this 16 year customer to jump ship to D* or go OTA exclusive.


I think your right about that. A $20 increase would make a lot of people jump ship. I love my Hoppers but I would not stay if my bill went up $20 a month. I don't mind a little increase here and there. I think all of us are used to that but not a big $20 shot all at once.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I went from paying about $40 for HD Absolute 2 years ago to $85 currently, if it is more than $5 total increase, I'll seriously consider going OTA ONLY!

Somebody's got to send a message to these clowns that we will not take being soaked year after year.

I suggest we all drop Dish if it is a $10 increase and plan to come back in 90 days as new customers with all the goodies of the new customer discount.

It would be quite a shock for them to experience a huge subscriber drop immediately when the price increase occurs.

Only if we act in concert will they see we mean business.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Why even bother to get mad at someone's random rumors?

Hey, I imagined that Dish will drop prices $20 per month before raising them $10 so it will still be lower!

Yay!

Believe my random rumor 

But seriously... this far out... people are probably just making stuff up to worry about. No need to worry until we get to February... then you can panic if you don't like the next increase.

Though, be aware... DirecTV and cable companies usually raise their rates 1-2 months out from there too... so don't go somewhere in a panic only to find they raised their rates too!


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## karrank% (Sep 20, 2009)

satcrazy said:


> If the increase is high, drop down a package.
> 
> Dish has been way more generous then DTV ever was when I was a sub there.
> 
> Hopefully it won't be much of a increase.:nono2:


What he said.


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## karrank% (Sep 20, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Why even bother to get mad at someone's random rumors?
> 
> Hey, I imagined that Dish will drop prices $20 per month before raising them $10 so it will still be lower!
> 
> ...


and what he said.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Dish will still be cheaper than Concrap cable


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Why would I leave Dish to pay even more somewhere? Or perhaps about the same? In many cases to get inferior equipment? If cable, lose my connection everytime a leaf falls? Prices usually go up every year for everyone.


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

I have been with E* since 1998 and no regrets. We have moved twice and both times we hooked up cable for a month and hated it. Right now we use suddenlink for internet and phone, but E* for TV. 

Thanks to all for all the great comments and updates.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

inazsully said:


> I've read guesstimates of a $10 increase for each package plus a $10 increase in monthly DVR fees. If this happens I can imagine plenty of subs jumping ship because of the new customer incentives offered by "D" and most cable companies. I can also guess that when you call "E" to cancel you will be offered a plethora of discounts and extra's to stay. After no price increases for 2 years and the $$$ Hit Charlie took in the courts I expect that he'll be making that up somewhere.


well, ergen could always sell some of his "spectrum", :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inazsully said:


> I've read guesstimates of a $10 increase for each package plus a $10 increase in monthly DVR fees.


I disagree with that guess. DISH will remain one step behind DirecTV in price increases. It is where they like to be in the marketplace. About one year cheaper.


> I can also guess that when you call "E" to cancel you will be offered a plethora of discounts and extra's to stay.


I disagree with that guess. You have DISH confused with DirecTV. DISH will let you go. They went a different way with the AMC issue because it was cheaper to give away a few freebees. DISH will do that with programming disputes - but "special deals for complainers" is not typical for DISH.


> After no price increases for 2 years and the $$$ Hit Charlie took in the courts I expect that he'll be making that up somewhere.


This quarter (3Q) was not good ... the first quarter posted as a loss since 2002. But they are still on track for a decent year ... not great, but it won't be their worst year.


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## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

A $20 increase would be enough for me to cancel. I put up an OTA antenna a little more than a year ago, and it seems as though I watch that more than satellite. Sure, there are some things I'll miss from Dish, but I refuse to become a member of Dish's "$100 a month" club.


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## lonerwulf (Jul 10, 2012)

People here are funny. Are u people so cheap you would drop dish over 5 bucks? Really? If u drop then u have to get another service problally loose a day of work for the installation then prob hate new service have to live out their contract then tuck your tail and come back. Just pay the 5 dollars


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

I would rather loose a day then tighten it


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

James Long said:


> I disagree with that guess. DISH will remain one step behind DirecTV in price increases. It is where they like to be in the marketplace. About one year cheaper.I disagree with that guess. You have DISH confused with DirecTV. DISH will let you go. They went a different way with the AMC issue because it was cheaper to give away a few freebees. DISH will do that with programming disputes - but "special deals for complainers" is not typical for DISH.This quarter (3Q) was not good ... the first quarter posted as a loss since 2002. But they are still on track for a decent year ... not great, but it won't be their worst year.


Nope. I don't have Dish confused with Directv. All you have to do is go back and read some of the posts in the "Dish dropped AMC" thread. Dish was offering free Roku's, discounts of $10 per month for up to a year. Free movie channels.


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## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

I'll probably wait & see what happens before I decide what I'll do in response to the unknown


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## knot (Feb 4, 2010)

lonerwulf said:


> People here are funny. Are u people so cheap you would drop dish over 5 bucks? Really? If u drop then u have to get another service problally loose a day of work for the installation then prob hate new service have to live out their contract then tuck your tail and come back. Just pay the 5 dollars


Yep if i dropped them i would never look back. Just go with my ota and roku box. TV is just not that all important to me.


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## joyandjerry (Jul 3, 2012)

We've had Dish for 8 years, and have been very happy. We have AEP (premiums, plus DVR). I always check the "competitors" when there is a pricing "change" (read increase), and have found that they are less expensive than DTV and way, way cheaper than my local cable company. Due to the AMC situation, we were given a lot of perks to retain our business, and are pleased with the CS offered. I _almost_ switched over _TWD_, but my patience was rewarded.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

renegade said:


> A $20 increase would be enough for me to cancel. I put up an OTA antenna a little more than a year ago, and it seems as though I watch that more than satellite. Sure, there are some things I'll miss from Dish, but I refuse to become a member of Dish's "$100 a month" club.


Several months ago I made a list of what I watched OTA vs sat only programming. I did this for 4 weeks & 80% of what I watched was OTA. This made me consider going strictly OTA. But I would really miss some of the sat programming. While some of that is on Hulu it is not HD. So I'm staying with Dish as long as I can afford it.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I could live with OTA and 5 channels off sat. USA, TNT, SCIFI, ESPN, and FSN. I would miss a few shows on TBS and a couple of others but I could live with that.


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## Steveb_77 (Nov 24, 2012)

knot said:


> Yep if i dropped them i would never look back. Just go with my ota and roku box. TV is just not that all important to me.


Have to say I agree somewhat. The ROKU is a fantastic piece of hardware.


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## Kung (Nov 24, 2012)

Long as they maintain my price I'm good; they've done some odd stuff before. (E.g., spontaneous channel additions that enabled me to remove packages after ensuring the additions would remain...followed by the channels disappearing and me being 'required' to pay $5 to add them back.)


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

Jim5506 said:


> I went from paying about $40 for HD Absolute 2 years ago to $85 currently, if it is more than $5 total increase, I'll seriously consider going OTA ONLY!


I had the HD Absolute when it was $30/mo.

That plan went away, and I went OTA + streaming.

i've been looking at that dish welcome pack though. I can stomache $15/mo for a few channels i'll actually watch, but i remember not long ago it was $10/mo, so now I'm thinking soon enough it will be $20/mo and so on.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Not related to the price freeze of a couple of years back, but this will likely be my last year wish Dish. I've never paid a DVR fee and never will. I just don't believe in them. When they changed the policy a year or so back, they granted a 2 year grace period of DVR fee credits. I'm in my second year of those credits. When they go away, so do I.

Maybe they'll come up with an extension, but I'm not counting in it.

Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

For various reasons I'm reluctantly a "Everything" customer. Free Previews? what free previews? to get any compensation I have to ask, which by some maybe most will be conceived as complaining, whatever.....


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## mike1977 (Aug 26, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> Not related to the price freeze of a couple of years back, but this will likely be my last year wish Dish. I've never paid a DVR fee and never will. I just don't believe in them. When they changed the policy a year or so back, they granted a 2 year grace period of DVR fee credits. I'm in my second year of those credits. When they go away, so do I.
> 
> Maybe they'll come up with an extension, but I'm not counting in it.
> 
> Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


Yeah, dvr fee just an extra fee for them to make money.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

SayWhat? said:


> Not related to the price freeze of a couple of years back, but this will likely be my last year wish Dish. I've never paid a DVR fee and never will. I just don't believe in them. When they changed the policy a year or so back, they granted a 2 year grace period of DVR fee credits. I'm in my second year of those credits. When they go away, so do I.
> 
> Maybe they'll come up with an extension, but I'm not counting in it.
> 
> Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


Wow for someone with so much animosity towards people trying to get freebies during the AMC issues your quite quick to try and save a buck for yourself ehh?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> I've never paid a DVR fee and never will.


So what provider does not have a DVR fee? And what are you giving up to move to that provider?

I don't like fees, but they are a part of subscribing to TV.


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## mike1977 (Aug 26, 2005)

James Long said:


> So what provider does not have a DVR fee? And what are you giving up to move to that provider?
> 
> I don't like fees, but they are a part of subscribing to TV.


The first dvr I had with no fee was a Replay TV and it had a remote head you stuck on the receiver that changed the channel.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

James Long said:


> So what provider does not have a DVR fee? And what are you giving up to move to that provider?
> 
> I don't like fees, but they are a part of subscribing to TV.


windows media center. :grin:

Harder to do with satellite, but not impossible. Very easy to do with cablecard.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

brant said:


> windows media center. :grin:
> 
> Harder to do with satellite, but not impossible. Very easy to do with cablecard.


Of course you need to factor in the investment cost of the pc and tuner card(s) to make a fair price comparison. Now break that down on a monthly basis and how many years does it take to break even on the monthly dvr fee?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> So what provider does not have a DVR fee? And what are you giving up to move to that provider?
> 
> I don't like fees, *but they are a part of subscribing to TV*.


Which I won't be doing.

WMC, OTA, DVD, maybe some streaming, etc. Might even look at trying FTA. My ISP has a TV page included in their home page that offers quite a bit of choice in free programming, both classic and current.

If I can get anything in stray programming from Dish, fine.

I already have the PC, etc. so no cost involved there.

No matter what, I won't be paying $700/yr or more plus getting nickle and dimed by a DVR fee.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

"SayWhat?" said:


> Which I won't be doing.
> 
> WMC, OTA, DVD, maybe some streaming, etc. Might even look at trying FTA. My ISP has a TV page included in their home page that offers quite a bit of choice in free programming, both classic and current.
> 
> ...


Wow your the guy that told someone they "betrayed" their provider when they left. What a hypocrite!


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Name calling doesn't ad anything to the discussion. The point is dvr fees suck and there is nothing we can do about it. It's actually a case of collusion when you think about it. Sort of like DOC fees at a car dealer.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inazsully said:


> It's actually a case of collusion when you think about it. Sort of like DOC fees at a car dealer.


*collusion*
1. a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: _Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him._
2. _Law_ . a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: _collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce. _
dictionary.com

What is the secret? What is illegal?

Charging a fee for the service is not against the law ... and there is no secret that fees are charged for having a DVR on the account. DISH and other providers openly publish their fee schedules, which are readable by subscribers and non-subscribers.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

mike1977 said:


> The first dvr I had with no fee was a Replay TV and it had a remote head you stuck on the receiver that changed the channel.


When ReplayTV and TiVo came out, ReplayTV cost just about the same as a TiVo plus lifetime service. So I think it had a fee, just priced differently. Everyone breaks out their fees differently so I think you should look at the total cost and not get annoyed by a certain label on some fraction of your total fees. So far to me it looks like my 722K with dual tuners, HD, and much more disk space, is costing about as much over time as my original single tuner SD TiVo plus lifetime service, so I think it's OK.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

James Long said:


> *collusion*
> 1. a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: _Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him._
> 2. _Law_ . a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: _collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce. _
> dictionary.com
> ...


Well, the secret would be that they did not want anybody to know that the dvr fee agreement was made in the first place. The fraud part would have to be proved in a court of law. But, in the court of public opinion the fraud here is two or more companies agreeing to ad a charge for the simple purpose of profit, ie: to charge for something that did not exist in the past (a dvr fee). In this case, as long as every provider does it the customer has no option to change providers in an attempt to not be charged said fee. As I mentioned concerning the DOC fee at car dealers. They all decided together to charge a DOC fee. No exceptions. All for the good of the owner. It is what it is. Nothing we can do about it if we want the service.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I just don't see the legitimacy of it. I can see a lease fee if you're leasing the box. But to add a DVR fee on top of the lease fee makes no sense. If you buy the box, adding a DVR fee makes no sense. It doesn't cost Dish a dime for the customer to use the DVR functions. In fact, they really don't know if you're using it or not.

And this is all on top of your subscription rate.

When you buy a refrigerator, the manufacturer or retailer don't charge you extra to use the ice maker.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inazsully said:


> Well, the secret would be that they did not want anybody to know that the dvr fee agreement was made in the first place.


It is not kept a secret. As one signs up for service it is disclosed. Before one signs up for service the fee can easily be found.



> As I mentioned concerning the DOC fee at car dealers. They all decided together to charge a DOC fee. No exceptions. All for the good of the owner. It is what it is. Nothing we can do about it if we want the service.


It is a payment for a service rendered - and it is disclosed as the purchase deal is signed. At least it was when I bought my cars.



SayWhat? said:


> I just don't see the legitimacy of it. I can see a lease fee if you're leasing the box. But to add a DVR fee on top of the lease fee makes no sense. If you buy the box, adding a DVR fee makes no sense. It doesn't cost Dish a dime for the customer to use the DVR functions.


It may not have cost DISH a dime for you to use the DVR but it cost them a pretty penny to develop and maintain a DVR for your use.

Why should a non-DVR customer pay the same as a DVR customer when they are not getting the benefit of the DVR? A person who chooses to have a DVR and not use it still has a DVR available to them (and they could choose to not have a DVR). DVR fees are avoidable ... don't have a DVR.



> In fact, they really don't know if you're using it or not.


If it is connected to phone or internet they do. 



> And this is all on top of your subscription rate.


OK ... lets make a deal. Raise EVERYONE'S rate by $7 and cancel the per account DVR fee. 



> When you buy a refrigerator, the manufacturer or retailer don't charge you extra to use the ice maker.


You pay a monthly fee to your refrigerator supplier? Perhaps you do if it is from a rental place. I would not be surprised to pay more per month to rent a refrigerator with an ice maker.

Manufacturers and retailers charge extra for refrigerators with ice makers.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> You pay a monthly fee to your refrigerator supplier?


No, I don't. That's the point. I pay once when I buy it with no monthly fees to use it. Same should apply for the DVR I bought.

In fact, I should be able to buy a third party DVR and use it. Seems like people could do that in the past if I remember right. Maybe that was pre-DVR days.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> No, I don't. That's the point. I pay once when I buy it with no monthly fees to use it. Same should apply for the DVR I bought.


Somehow the fridge I bought requires electricity to keep it running and the car I bought requires gas and other consumables.

If I understand correctly, you have already said that you don't mind paying the monthly lease fee or additional receiver fees. I don't see DVR service to be much different than any other service fee. I would watch a lot less TV if it were not captured for me on my DVR. If I were to take the hours watched divided by the monthly cost having the DVR increasing the hours watched makes my subscription a better value. Even with the fee factored in.



> In fact, I should be able to buy a third party DVR and use it.


You can ... you can even build your own DVR ... just don't expect it to work as well as a DVR built in to your satellite receiver. Or be cheaper than the DVR fee you don't want to pay.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> Somehow the fridge I bought requires electricity to keep it running and the car I bought requires gas and other consumables.


I knew somebody would bring that into it, but remember, the DVR uses electricity also on top of everything else. That doesn't get paid to Dish though, so it isn't really relevant any more than it is on a fridge.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

SayWhat? said:


> When you buy a refrigerator, the manufacturer or retailer don't charge you extra to use the ice maker.


But if you buy, for example, Windows 7, and you want the features of a higher edition, you just pay more, because in most cases, those extra features are already on your disk. You just pay to use them. Many software products are like that these days.

Some hardware products are different only in the firmware that is loaded on them and some even have the same firmware and become the cheaper or more expensive product via a jumper. etc.

My car came with a satellite radio but I have to pay to use it. My neighbors car and my car both have GPS built-in. Only he has to pay to use his and using mine was included in the base price.

There are an infinite number of pricing analogies that you can point to so you can always say someone/something else is not like "this".


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Wow there's still people complaining about DVR fees? Really?! Thought that ship sailed years ago. Like noted above no one has to pay a DVR fee if they don't want to, so if the fee bothers you then get rid of the DVR. Personally the $6/mo I pay for my DVR is about the best monthly investment I have for my entertainment dollar!


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Here's another one I just remembered. At the optometrist, they had me look into a machine which took digital pictures of my retinas. Later the doctor told me we could "develop" those pictures and she could look at them without dilating my eyes and we would have a nice record for future comparison - but this would cost extra. Or, she could dilate my eyes and peer in the old-fashioned way. I went with the modern more expensive way, and she said, "OK we'll develop the pictures" and with a click of her mouse, there they were. The "magic" of digital "development".  Of course the work of having me sit in front of the machine had already been done by the technician. It cost me extra to save the doctor from basically redoing it the old way. (Not to mention they didn't have to send me home with disposable sunglasses.)

Just another funny pricing model for you. Value to you is often priced higher even if it costs them less.


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## mike1977 (Aug 26, 2005)

I don't pay Microsoft a monthly fee to use my hard drive and Windows on my computer and maintain it with the updates.

So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with. Isn't all the software doing is reading the interactive tv guide? Why isn't there a separate non-dvr receiver interactive tv guide fee to maintain THAT?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: One of the features of the DVR is the 9 day guide, instead of 48 hours. Being able to look ahead is just another benefit that comes from having a DVR.

And for the $10 DVR fee that applies to my Hopper I get to use PTAT ... and record things that I didn't know were on. Every once in a while I hear of a show that was on last night or last week that is still on my Hopper available to be viewed. Value for $$.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

mike1977 said:


> So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with.


That's certainly one way to do it. ie: take the monthly cost, multiply it by some estimate of the lifetime of the unit and add it to the price.

Of course when you do that, many will complain about the high up-front cost. Many people want the cheap/free cell phone and barely bother to ask what the monthly fee is going to be. For better or worse, many companies have figured this out.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

James Long said:


> You can ... you can even build your own DVR ... just don't expect it to work as well as a DVR built in to your satellite receiver. Or be cheaper than the DVR fee you don't want to pay.


while not as bad as most cableco dvr's, dish networks dvr is nothing to brag about. I think the lack of 3rd party availability is what keeps dish and DirecTV from putting anything really worth paying for on the market.

There is a 3rd party Dvr already built and waiting for dish or direct to pick it up, but i doubt it will ever happen.

Both dish and DirecTV built USB tuners for windows media center also, but for reasons unexplained, decided not to make them available.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

James Long said:


> BTW: One of the features of the DVR is the 9 day guide, instead of 48 hours. Being able to look ahead is just another benefit that comes from having a DVR.
> 
> .


I have a 14 day guide that costs $0/mo with media center. SageTV also provided their guide service for free.

As far as I know, all htpc front-ends provide their guides for free.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I did not say that the dvr fee was a secret. I said that the agreement between the providers to all ad a dvr fee was the secret. Hence the term "collusion". If all the providers do it then the customer is caught between a rock and a hard place. If Directv decided to drop its dvr fee how long do you think it would take Dish to follow suit? This type of universally added fee concept, "collusion", is so unfair that a few states have put a ceiling on DOC fees concerning car dealers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ok ... so if everybody is doing it then it must be a crime. Everyone charges an additional receiver fee. Must be collusion. Everyone charges a monthly fee for their service. That is definitely collusion.

More like market forces. DISH did not have a DVR fee ... then their DVRs got popular enough that they found it to be a good way of making money so they charged a fee PER receiver ... except on the top package where AEP included the DVR fee. Then they didn't include the fee in AEP (back to per receiver fees). Then DISH moved to a per account fee (but somehow charged more for a solo DVR than a solo receiver and a duo DVR than a duo receiver). And with the 922 they added an additional couple of dollars for the larger hard drive.

Now with The Hopper the per account whole home DVR fee is $10 ... which happens to be what DirecTV charges. DISH still charges $6 on non-Hopper accounts. DISH still charges more for non Hopper DVRs than they do similar receivers.

Occam's razor says each company is just charging what they believe the market will bear. But if you believe DISH and DirecTV got together behind the scenes to conspire to set up this price structure I suppose I can't stop you.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

brant said:


> There is a 3rd party Dvr already built and waiting for dish or direct to pick it up, but i doubt it will ever happen.
> 
> Both dish and DirecTV built USB tuners for windows media center also, but for reasons unexplained, decided not to make them available.


My guess is that is has something to do with encryption of content.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> My guess is that is has something to do with encryption of content.


I was thinking more along the lines of lost revenue. They wouldn't have a way of charging you extra for connecting extenders to the system. WMC handles cablecard encryption just fine. The biggest complaint of cablecard users is that content can only be watched on the PC that recorded it and its extenders; you can't transfer recordings between PC's.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^ Well, that's pretty much the same as the DVRs. I can see that for Premium channels, and possibly for traditional cable/sat channels like USA, TBS, et al., but I can't see it for OTA channels.

Maybe a site license/key where you could play content on any machine you own, perhaps with a limit of 10 or 15 devices.

But that's another thread I guess.

Nobody has really answered the question I asked a while back though if I discontinue my subscription but keep the 512 connected:


> Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

mike1977 said:


> I don't pay Microsoft a monthly fee to use my hard drive and Windows on my computer and maintain it with the updates.
> 
> So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with. Isn't all the software doing is reading the interactive tv guide? Why isn't there a separate non-dvr receiver interactive tv guide fee to maintain THAT?


There are some differences here, first of all Microsoft isn't providing you content just software and maybe hardware depending what you buy from them. They've chosen a pricing model that you either pay upfront (when you buy a computer part of the price, a pretty big part actually, is what the computer manufacturer pays to software companies like Microsoft to have their popular software on their computers) or you pay to upgrade when Microsoft comes out with a new version of one of their programs.

Dish on the other hand is primarily in the business of providing entertainment content to your home. When they started they actually had a similar business model, you pay for your equipment and installation up front, but of course the difference here is that to view the content you did have to keep paying a monthly fee for it. Well the industry figured out that they could spread out the cost of their equipment & installation by adding the cost to the monthly bill and getting customers to agree to a minimum subscription time (aka contract). As it turns out people preferred this and they got a lot more people to sign up for their services over the old way of paying upfront for equipment and labor. Also they noticed that subscribers who had DVR's cost them more because of the cost of developing, manufacturing and maintaining them. So sure they could just charge their customers who want DVR's an upfront charge for them but market forces have spoken and has shown that people are more willing to pay a small monthly fee rather than a few hundred dollars upfront.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> Which I won't be doing.
> 
> WMC, OTA, DVD, maybe some streaming, etc. Might even look at trying FTA. My ISP has a TV page included in their home page that offers quite a bit of choice in free programming, both classic and current.
> 
> ...


So don't get a DVR. Just a VIP 222.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Nobody has really answered the question I asked a while back though if I discontinue my subscription but keep the 512 connected:


I'm not sure about it working with a dish receiver, but you can pickup whatever is in the clear, including free previews, with a turbo-8psk tuner card.


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## joyandjerry (Jul 3, 2012)

tsmacro said:


> Wow there's still people complaining about DVR fees? Really?! Thought that ship sailed years ago. Like noted above no one has to pay a DVR fee if they don't want to, so if the fee bothers you then get rid of the DVR. Personally the $6/mo I pay for my DVR is about the best monthly investment I have for my entertainment dollar!


+2!!! The DVR allows us to watch so many things we enjoy. It is an excellent value!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


Currently:
*Free or Preview Channels*
100 HOME DISH Home (Interactive) (ITV Free Free) 110° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 21
101 D101 DISH 101 (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (B3 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
9531 D101 (101 HD PartTime) DISH 101 (HD Preview) 110° TP 13 and 72.7° TP 28
103 PREVW Free Preview Announcements (SD MPEG4 Preview) 61.5° TP 6 and (SD Preview) 110° TP 2
104 IDEA (71 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
9527 DIY (111 HD) Do It Yourself (HD Preview) 110° TP 22 and 72.7° TP 20
123 MALL (83 Local) (Shopping) (SD Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
125 AXS AXS TV (SD Preview) 119° TP 16 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 21
128 WE Women's Entertainment (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 12 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
130 HDNMV HD Net Movies (SD MPEG4 Preview) 61.5° TP 2 and (SD Preview) 110° TP 21
5023 HDNMV (130 HD) HD Net Movies (HD Preview) 119° TP 7 and 72.7° TP 24
134 SHNBC ShopNBC (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
137 QVC Quality Value Choice (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
164 FUSE Fuse (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
9490 SCI (193 HD) Science Channel (HD Preview) 129° TP 19 and 72.7° TP 20
9437 TRV (196 HD) The Travel Channel (HD Preview) 129° TP 28 and 72.7° TP 11
220 MALL (Shopping) (SD Instant Order Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
222 HSN (84 Local) Home Shopping Network (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
223 BEST (85 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 31
226 HSN2 Home Shopping Network 2 (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 5
227 JTV (86 Local) (Shopping Channel) (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 5
228 SHNBC ShopNBC (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 7
229 GEMS (Shopping Channel) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
230 ICTV (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
240 PRST Pursuit TV (AAD Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
256 PRAYR Shepherd's Chapel (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 21
257 SBN Sonlife Broadcasting Network (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
274 LQ CH The Liquidation Channel (SD Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
275 YOUTV (72 Local) (Shopping) (SD Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
298 IFC Independent Film Channel (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 6 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
358 SUND Sundance (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
362 AXS AXS TV (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 9
9422 AXS (362 HD) AXS TV (HD Preview) 119° TP 7 and 72.7° TP 3
471 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (SD Free Free) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 29
472 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (HD Free Free) 110° TP 10 and 72.7° TP 29
473 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (SD Free Free) 110° TP 8 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 29
474 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (HD Free Free) 110° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 29
480 ALOCK Adult Lock (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
500 ONPPV ON PPV (Promo Channel) (SD Free Free) 110° TP 16 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 25
561 NBA NBA League Pass (SD Preview) 119° TP 18 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
9561 NBA (561 HD PartTime) NBA League Pass (HD Preview) 129° TP 26 and 72.7° TP 10
703 ZCINE Zee Cinema (SD Preview) 118° TP 27
704 SETMX SET Max (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 27
705 B4U B4U Movies (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 22
709 TIMES Times Now (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
710 HT Headlines Today (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 20
715 ZOOM Zoom (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
716 B4UMU B4U Music (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 23
717 ZING Indus Music (Urdu) (SD Preview) 118° TP 12
718 MTVH MTV India (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
723 NDTV NDTV 24/7 News (India) (SD Preview) 118° TP 18
724 NDTVG NDTV Goodtimes (India) (SD Preview) 118° TP 18
733 TV9 TV9 Gujarat (SD Preview) 118° TP 2
817 CD 12 Ink'd (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 72.7° TP 25
829 D101 DISH 101 (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
875 STORE (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
883 IDEA (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
886 NHL NHL Center Ice (SD Preview) 110° TP 24 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 29
9542 NHL (886 HD PartTime) NHL Center Ice (HD Preview) 129° TP 26 and 72.7° TP 10
929 AUD07 (75 Local) Gumbo (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 61.5° TP 2
946 AUD19 (76 Local) Roadhouse (Audio Preview) 119° TP 18 and 72.7° TP 25
947 AUD20 (73 Local) Holiday (Audio Preview) 119° TP 12 and 72.7° TP 22
949 MUZK2 (74 Local) Muzak 2 (Muzak) (Audio Preview) 119° TP 12 and 72.7° TP 22
950 CD 1 (77 Local) Screen Door (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
951 CD 2 (78 Local) Rawhide (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
961 CD 12 (79 Local) Ink'd (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 72.7° TP 25
963 CD 14 (80 Local) Concrete Beats (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
5707 NIT-H (HD Preview) 118° TP 13 *No EPG*
5708 NIT-V (SD Preview) 118° TP 13 *No EPG*
5709 NIT-M (SD MPEG4 Preview) 118° TP 13 *No EPG*
5710 TEST (HD Preview) 110° TP 13 *No EPG*
6004 SXM04 (88 Local) Sirius/XM 40s on 4 (Audio Abilene, TX market Preview) 119° TP 21 and 72.7° TP 15
6017 SXM17 (89 Local) Sirius/XM Love (Audio Abilene, TX market Preview) 119° TP 11 and 72.7° TP 5
9532 ICTV (81 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Free Free) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
9582 D61.5 61.5 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 61.5° TP 14
9583 D118 118 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 118° TP 7
9584 D121 121 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 121° TP 21
9598 D500 Dish 500 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 110° TP 10
9599 D129 129 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 129° TP 21
9643 ROCKS (87 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 119° TP 13 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 9
9644 STORE (94 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
9645 DEAL (95 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 23
9916 CCTV4 CCTV-4 (Chinese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 19
9938 TVB8 TVB8 (Chinese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 15
9985 TVBS TVBS Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 15
9986 TVBE TVBe Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9987 TVB2 TVB2 Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9988 TVB1 TVB1 Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9998 TVBV TVBV (Vietnamese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 1

Subject to change at any time.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

karrank% said:


> I'd make this a poll but lack the expertise.
> 
> Exit, stage left?
> 
> ...


I just downgraded to AT 200 today.


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