# how to unlock a hard drive from hr21-700 to use in a computer



## chevyman601 (Feb 23, 2007)

i want to use the old hard drive from my hr21-700 as a normal hard drive in a computer as i replaced it with a 1TB drive. but the drive is locked with ATA Security and doesn't show up in the bios or spin-up

thanks


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Personally, I wouldn't do that.

Remember - it's a leased box. You don't actually own that HD.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Those drives don't spinup properly for computer use either..


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

First off, I suggest we don't presume. For instance, I own several HR2x units and we know others here do to. (That said, one hopefully waits for the warranty to expire first...) 

Second, while I haven't used a drive as a primary drive in a computer, it works very nicely for a secondary drive.

As for how to unlock the drive, check with the drive manufacturers support knowledgebase. I suspect they have a utility. (Or google is thine best friend.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## chevyman601 (Feb 23, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Personally, I wouldn't do that.
> 
> Remember - it's a leased box. You don't actually own that HD.


all of my units are OWNED!


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Try an Internet search for “MHD3”. This is a program that will reformat and unlock drive used in old UltimateTV units. PM me if you can’t find it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I had no problem taking a 320GB drive from an HR21 and using it with a computer. The OS I installed re-formatted it. I don't recall if it was a Vista, Red Hat or Ubuntu install I did first.

Oh, and yes, I own the HR21...which now has a 1TB drive installed.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

Ken S said:


> I had no problem taking a 320GB drive from an HR21 and using it with a computer. The OS I installed re-formatted it. I don't recall if it was a Vista, Red Hat or Ubuntu install I did first.
> 
> Oh, and yes, I own the HR21...which now has a 1TB drive installed.


Along the same lines, could I pull the HR10-250 drive out of its box, put it in a PC, and install Windows onto it?

I have a couple of old HR10s that Directv said I could keep (one had the perpetual reboot syndrome and the other's access card reader went kaput) so I was thinking about buying an enclosure, dropping both drives into it, and attaching it to my media server. Sound feasible?


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## CobraGuy (Apr 23, 2007)

chevyman601 said:


> all of my units are OWNED!


You sure? Where did you buy them?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, let's take his word for it. It is possible to own an HR21, as Tom says. I think we all agree that it is a huge mistake to try to open a piece of leased equipment but if he says he owns it, as far as I'm concerned he owns it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

durl said:


> Along the same lines, could I pull the HR10-250 drive out of its box, put it in a PC, and install Windows onto it?
> 
> I have a couple of old HR10s that Directv said I could keep (one had the perpetual reboot syndrome and the other's access card reader went kaput) so I was thinking about buying an enclosure, dropping both drives into it, and attaching it to my media server. Sound feasible?


XP and Vista will low level format the drive before doing the install...I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Ken S said:


> XP and Vista will low level format the drive before doing the install...I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.


If the drive is locked with ATA security, then it won't be that simple. I don't know how this works with the HR10's and HR2x's, but on the old UltimateTV DVR's, they would use ATA security to lock the drive. If you put a used UTV drive in a computer, it would act like it wasn't even there. Basically, it's a hardware level data encryption and unless the controller passes the right key to the drive when it spins up, the drive never responds back, not even with its model number or drive parameters. The controller just assumes nothing is there.

The program I mentioned in my earlier post, MHD3, is used to unlock a drive that is using this ATA security. It won't decrypt the data, but it will send the drive an "override" unlock code that will then allow it to be reformatted, thus removing the encryption (and the data, too). It has to be run from a bootable floppy (or something emulating that). It's advisable run it with nothing but the locked drive connected to the primary controller to prevent accidental erasure of a good drive. Also, it takes a while, as in hours. I seem to remember it being something like an hour for every 30GB.

There is a way to get around ATA security without destroying the data, but I'll not go into that as it might be construed as "hacking" and that's not allowed here.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

rudeney said:


> If the drive is locked with ATA security, then it won't be that simple. I don't know how this works with the HR10's and HR2x's, but on the old UltimateTV DVR's, they would use ATA security to lock the drive. If you put a used UTV drive in a computer, it would act like it wasn't even there. Basically, it's a hardware level data encryption and unless the controller passes the right key to the drive when it spins up, the drive never responds back, not even with its model number or drive parameters. The controller just assumes nothing is there.
> 
> The program I mentioned in my earlier post, MHD3, is used to unlock a drive that is using this ATA security. It won't decrypt the data, but it will send the drive an "override" unlock code that will then allow it to be reformatted, thus removing the encryption (and the data, too). It has to be run from a bootable floppy (or something emulating that). It's advisable run it with nothing but the locked drive connected to the primary controller to prevent accidental erasure of a good drive. Also, it takes a while, as in hours. I seem to remember it being something like an hour for every 30GB.
> 
> There is a way to get around ATA security without destroying the data, but I'll not go into that as it might be construed as "hacking" and that's not allowed here.


Okay, then I guess they don't use it in the HR21 because it seems to be working just fine in my computer. I was also able to see the DirecTV partitions before deleting and formatting them. It was my understanding that ATA security wouldn't prevent you from formatting a drive...just accessing the data on it.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

I don't care about keeping the data on the HR10 drives. I'd be content to reformat them and make them usable with my server.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Okay, then I guess they don't use it in the HR21 because it seems to be working just fine in my computer. I was also able to see the DirecTV partitions before deleting and formatting them. It was my understanding that ATA security wouldn't prevent you from formatting a drive...just accessing the data on it.


It depends on the security level. There is a user password and a master password and levels for each:

http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2006/e05179r4-ACS-SecurityClarifications.pdf

Basically, the UTV set a "master password" with "high capability" security. At that point, the only command the drive will respond to without the password is a full erase. Because the drive won't even respond to a device inquiry, the full erase command has to be sent "blindly" from the controller and this can't be done under O/S control. That's basically all the MHD3 program does and the reason why it has to be run from a "boot" disk.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

rudeney said:


> It depends on the security level. There is a user password and a master password and levels for each:
> 
> http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2006/e05179r4-ACS-SecurityClarifications.pdf
> 
> Basically, the UTV set a "master password" with "high capability" security. At that point, the only command the drive will respond to without the password is a full erase. Because the drive won't even respond to a device inquiry, the full erase command has to be sent "blindly" from the controller and this can't be done under O/S control. That's basically all the MHD3 program does and the reason why it has to be run from a "boot" disk.


Thanks Rodney,

Well, I guess the HR2x series doesn't use it. From what I've read of the Tivo folks and the stuff they do with their hard drives I have a feeling they don't either. I do appreciate the heads-up...now I'll know what's going on if I ever run into a drive acting like that.


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## chevyman601 (Feb 23, 2007)

CobraGuy said:


> You sure? Where did you buy them?


I didn't buy them, they are replacements for the owned hr10-250 that died on the protection plan. my friend also has over 25 of them owned too, fact DTV came out and took pictures of his set up for there records because he has the most units of anyone and gave him a special CSR phone number.

Anyway he has 2 or 3 hard drives that came out of a 20 or 21 that are locked so maybe at one time they were locking them. the drives don't show in the post or spin-up. tried to put them in a hr21 but don't work and don't know what unit he took them out of, or i would put them back in to get them spun-up and swap the data cable to a computer and do a drive wipe. i found company that has a program that unlocks drive but they charge by the GB size of the drive which would cost almost half the price of a new drive.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

chevyman601 said:


> I didn't buy them, they are replacements for the owned hr10-250 that died on the protection plan. my friend also has over 25 of them owned too, fact DTV came out and took pictures of his set up for there records because he has the most units of anyone and gave him a special CSR phone number.
> 
> Anyway he has 2 or 3 hard drives that came out of a 20 or 21 that are locked so maybe at one time they were locking them. the drives don't show in the post or spin-up. tried to put them in a hr21 but don't work and don't know what unit he took them out of, or i would put them back in to get them spun-up and swap the data cable to a computer and do a drive wipe. i found company that has a program that unlocks drive but they charge by the GB size of the drive which would cost almost half the price of a new drive.


Have you tried any of the low level partition tools? I guess I just got lucky with my drive. Anyway, the MHD tool may do what you want.


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## chevyman601 (Feb 23, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Have you tried any of the low level partition tools? I guess I just got lucky with my drive. Anyway, the MHD tool may do what you want.


i'm out of town right now so it will have to wait till i get back, thanks


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK, let's take his word for it. It is possible to own an HR21, as Tom says. I think we all agree that it is a huge mistake to try to open a piece of leased equipment but if he says he owns it, as far as I'm concerned he owns it.


if you cant open leased equipment then how do after market retailers legally upgrade units to bigger hard drives etc.?

is every upgraded unit 'owned'?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

newsposter said:


> if you cant open leased equipment then how do after market retailers legally upgrade units to bigger hard drives etc.?
> 
> is every upgraded unit 'owned'?


I think you're asking about weaknees and that is between them and DirecTV. If you have a problem, you start by contacting Weaknees.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i did and they never answered me and they arent the only game in town that does it


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i did and they never answered me and they arent the only game in town that does it


Well whoever "is" doing this, needs to have an arrangement with DirecTV.
It's activated on your account. 
Your account should show whether it's owned or leased.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i dont have one of their machines, thats what i'm asking here what kind of deal then have to do this legally?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i dont have one of their machines, thats what i'm asking here what kind of deal then have to do this legally?


"They" need to have an agreement with DirecTV, mostly for the service of the receiver, as no matter what you paid "them", if you had DirecTV replace the receiver, it wouldn't be with a larger drive unit.
This means your service needs to come from the vendor.
"Owning" is possible, but much more costly, and if it fails after the three month warranty, You have to pay for a replacement.
"Honestly" going for the leased unit and a eSATA drive should be a better way to go. The unit will be a lease, and replaced by DirecTV if it fails. The eSATA is yours and you deal with the vendor yourself.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

problably and arangement with directv.. no clue as to who they had to contact..


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## BruceS (Sep 23, 2006)

According to threads on their site, dvrupgrade.com does have an agreement with DirecTV to legally upgrade leased boxes.

You will get a response from them if you ask them the question.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

chevyman601 said:


> i'm out of town right now so it will have to wait till i get back, thanks


If these are Seagate drives, then their site has something called "seatools". I needed to reset the drive size back to its full capacity.
It turned out I needed to Select "none" in the BIOS for that drive location and then let Seatools find it and change the blocks/size.
Whether it is a Western Digital or Seagate, if you go to their web site, you should find a program for your drive to set it up.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

chevyman601 said:


> i'm out of town right now so it will have to wait till i get back, thanks


Any luck getting those drives unlocked/reformatted after all?

I too am stuck w. two Western Digital drives out of my HR21-700s -- they won't spin up or post to a PC.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Ken S said:


> XP and Vista will low level format the drive before doing the install...I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.


XP and Vista in and of themselves are _not_ capable of performing a low level format.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

harsh said:


> XP and Vista in and of themselves are _not_ capable of performing a low level format.


furthermore, the point is moot if the drive won't spin-up/post, due to ATA authentication failure.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

acronis disc director worked for me. had issue with 160gb from an r15, had acronis installed on other pc so just used it to import and format.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

Regarding the HR10-250 in particular, its drive is not "locked" so you can reuse it in anything you want. Note that it is an IDE drive, not SATA as in the HR2x.

Oh, and I own my HR21.


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## mworks (Oct 8, 2007)

MHDD can unlock it and change it so that it spins up.
I had to use on some Dish network drives that wouldn't spin up at all when power was applied. Read the info carefully and it only takes a few seconds to change the drive settings.
http://hddguru.com/content/en/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/

If you have problems getting it to be detected at all , then do a hot swap. 
Start the drive in the receiver then swap just the ide cable to the pc, keeping the drive powered from the receiver.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

So it appears the hard drive ATA locking may be isolated to the -700 models of HR21. The hdd from our -200 model were not locked and ready to be reused. The two hdd from the -700 models were both locked.

I downloaded the MHDD tool above ... looks real neat. (much thanks mworks )

Still haven't gotten the drives up and running just yet. Hdd won't detect, so looks like I will have to resort to the cable swap trick. That'll have to wait until I have more time to tinker with. Will report back until then.

Wish me luck!


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

Ok ... home from work now and have the opened HR21 setup next to the PC. Performed the hot swap trick and able to get MHDD to detect the locked hdd. The UNLOCK/DISPWD command is obviously of no use here, because I don't know what the original master/user password was, so I'm executing the disk ERASE function. This will take a while. Will update on how it turned out when it finishes.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

mworks said:


> MHDD can unlock it and change it so that it spins up.
> I had to use on some Dish network drives that wouldn't spin up at all when power was applied. Read the info carefully and it only takes a few seconds to change the drive settings.
> http://hddguru.com/content/en/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/
> 
> ...


As I'm aware MHDD had no command to unlock Dish locked disks.


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## InterMurph (Dec 18, 2007)

THX723 said:


> Ok ... home from work now and have the opened HR21 setup next to the PC. Performed the hot swap trick and able to get MHDD to detect the locked hdd. The UNLOCK/DISPWD command is obviously of no use here, because I don't know what the original master/user password was, so I'm executing the disk ERASE function. This will take a while. Will update on how it turned out when it finishes.


I tried MHDD with my HR20's old drive, but I couldn't get it to recognize the disk's existence. It's a SATA disk; is yours SATA or IDE?

Did you have to change MHDD's configuration file? It seems designed to make that impossible; the only way to view it is the "type" command, but it has lots of extra CR/LF at the end, which make the actual contents disappear.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

InterMurph said:


> I tried MHDD with my HR20's old drive, but I couldn't get it to recognize the disk's existence. It's a SATA disk; is yours SATA or IDE?
> 
> Did you have to change MHDD's configuration file? It seems designed to make that impossible; the only way to view it is the "type" command, but it has lots of extra CR/LF at the end, which make the actual contents disappear.


Yes, mine's also a SATA drive by Western Digital (model: WD3200AVJS). You have to use the "hot swap" technique in order for the PC to detect the drive. A quick summary how:

1. Setup HR2x and PC next to each other (preferably by a TV too).
2. Disconnect HR2x hdd power cable and affix power cable coming from PC instead.
3. Turn on PC and have it boot to MHDD. (no worries if drive isn't being detected)
4. Turn on HR2x DVR and wait until hdd spins up for a few seconds.
5. Disconnect HR2x hdd SATA cable and affix SATA cable from PC instead.
6. Refresh MHDD device list and you should now have access to the hdd.

I've hit a dead end however. It appears the hdd is actually NOT locked! I have also used another program called HDDerase (free) to verify that it is not locked. Regardless, I've performed multiple built-in security wipes (via HDDerase) just in case it was locked, but still to no avail. The hdd simply won't spin-up on it's own, unless connected to the HR2x.

I'm wondering if the hdd has a custom firmware that makes it so or not. What is the make, model, and firmware of your hdd?

Very bizzard!!!


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## InterMurph (Dec 18, 2007)

My disk is a Western Digital WD3200AVBS (320GB). 

When I hook it up to my Newer Technology USB-based adapter, it doesn't spin up at all. When I hook it up to my PC, it spins up briefly when I power it on, but then stops.

My PC and HR20 are too far apart, and I don't have enough time to try the hot swap thing.

Dang.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

InterMurph said:


> My disk is a Western Digital WD3200AVBS (320GB).
> 
> When I hook it up to my Newer Technology USB-based adapter, it doesn't spin up at all. When I hook it up to my PC, it spins up briefly when I power it on, but then stops.


Right. The only time it will spin-up is if attached to the HR2x and given the appropriate command/password.



> My PC and HR20 are too far apart, and I don't have enough time to try the hot swap thing.
> 
> Dang.


That is unfortunate ... because there's no way around that by average means. It shouldn't be hard to move the HR20 box next to the PC.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

i am going to monitor this thread because i have 2 seagate 500gb drives out of hr21 pro units and i cant get them to spin up or be recognized at all.......


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

Are you sure the drives are not powering up in standby mode? I had 3 320gb hr-20 bricks for about a year only to find that there is a boot utility that will remove the power up in standby feature. After that the drives worked perfectly.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

davel said:


> Are you sure the drives are not powering up in standby mode? I had 3 320gb hr-20 bricks for about a year only to find that there is a boot utility that will remove the power up in standby feature. After that the drives worked perfectly.


Hey that sounds like what it's doing. I can tell they are "powered up", just not "spun-up" (unless hooked up tot the HR.

What's the boot utility called? Got a link? PM?

Thanks!


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## InterMurph (Dec 18, 2007)

THX723 said:


> It shouldn't be hard to move the HR20 box next to the PC.


You don't have young kids, do you? I might be able to find some time in the next two or three months.

And davel, I'm interested in that program too.


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

I posted it here after I posted a year ago. The mods thought it was important enough to move out of this forum. I'm sure there were a lot of people like me.


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

And BTW, the drives work fine. I'm using them as boot drives in 2 servers now.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

Davel,
God bless you!  That was exactly it. My two drives are now up and running on its own.

After losing some serious sleep over this last night, I was able to conclude the drives were NOT locked and that they needed the some sort of "spin-up" command, that my PC can't seem to do. You finished the puzzle for me. Damn this new "Power On Standby" BS standard! :hurah:



InterMurph said:


> You don't have young kids, do you? I might be able to find some time in the next two or three months.
> 
> And davel, I'm interested in that program too.


Hehe ... nope! A girl friend is more than enough. 

Well, in light of the cool little utility Davel linked ... no need for the cable hot swap juggle, so it's no longer necessary for you to have the two boxes next to each other. Just plug in the "dormant" hdd, insert boot CD, reboot and it's done. The entire ordeal take just a few minutes.



dave29 said:


> i am going to monitor this thread because i have 2 seagate 500gb drives out of hr21 pro units and i cant get them to spin up or be recognized at all.......


It's your lucky day too. No more bricks! :lol:

Cheers!!!


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

THX723 said:


> It's your lucky day too. No more bricks! :lol:
> 
> Cheers!!!


ha ha, yeah i see that. i will try it tonight as soon as i get home.


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

This thread is the result of one of the most frusturating things about DBSTalk. There are very few highly technical people and a ton of "end users" on this site (see people that can't configure a router, plug in an esata drive, etc).

The summary is that I asked the same question 2 years ago, got no answers (other than the mods locking the thread) from technical people just a bunch of guesses.

When I finally datamined the answer I posted it and it got moved from this forum to the tech and gadgetry forum by the moderators and the question is asked again. 

I wish people would limit their answers to "known answers" instead of just guessing at the answer.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

davel said:


> This thread is the result of one of the most frusturating things about DBSTalk. There are very few highly technical people and a ton of "end users" on this site (see people that can't configure a router, plug in an esata drive, etc).
> 
> The summary is that I asked the same question 2 years ago, got no answers (other than the mods locking the thread) from technical people just a bunch of guesses.
> 
> ...


Welcome to "the learning curve" and give us [DBSTalk] a break.
Two years ago, few knew or believed these drives were locked. "playing with drives" is very close to "hacking" these boxes and that isn't supported by the forum.
It sounds like before anybody tries to help, you would want them to first post their resume.


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Welcome to "the learning curve" and give us [DBSTalk] a break.
> Two years ago, few knew or believed these drives were locked. "playing with drives" is very close to "hacking" these boxes and that isn't supported by the forum.
> It sounds like before anybody tries to help, you would want them to first post their resume.


I guess what I ask is that answers are not shuffled away and hidden by the mods and threads are not closed. 
I wish dbstalk had a rating system per thread and per response so people could find the answer easily (or an "answered" tag on the thread).

As far as "hacking", I think it is irresponsible for DTV to expect people to use the external sata (well not officially because it is not supported) which REPLACES the internal one which remains powered.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

davel said:


> I guess what I ask is that answers are not shuffled away and hidden by the mods and threads are not closed.
> I wish dbstalk had a rating system per thread and per response so people could find the answer easily (or an "answered" tag on the thread).
> As far as "hacking", I think it is irresponsible for DTV to expect people to use the external sata (well not officially because it is not supported) which REPLACES the internal one which remains powered.




1. Two years ago, very, very few of the HR20s were owned and "most" of these threads needed to be "curtailed" as they did evolve into "How to hack" the DVR.

2. An interesting thought/idea. I've seen some other sites that have this. Not sure if this site will evolve to a point where this would happen. You can always suggest this to the staff here.

3. It's sure your right to have/express your opinion about DirecTV. I'm not sure I agree with you, but that doesn't mean you have any less right to your opinion.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

rudeney said:


> If the drive is locked with ATA security, then it won't be that simple. I don't know how this works with the HR10's and HR2x's, but on the old UltimateTV DVR's, they would use ATA security to lock the drive. If you put a used UTV drive in a computer, it would act like it wasn't even there.


The HR10-250s have no security on them. Just pop them out and into a new machine and format away. Piece of cake. Was the first thing I did when I upgraded to an HR20. (Anyone wanna buy a diskless 10-250 cheap?


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## louiss3000 (Jan 26, 2008)

newsposter said:


> if you cant open leased equipment then how do after market retailers legally upgrade units to bigger hard drives etc.?
> 
> is every upgraded unit 'owned'?


Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but I too have an HR20-100 that was sent to replace a failed HR10-250. Do I own it? I'm billed as if it's leased.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted by *newsposter*
> _if you cant open leased equipment then how do after market retailers legally upgrade units to bigger hard drives etc.? _
> 
> _is every upgraded unit 'owned'?_
> ...


After market retailers [weaknees] cover their [modified] receivers with their own warranty. Should you have a problem, you need to return/contact them about service.

If you had your HR10-250 replaced, you would need to call DirecTV and ask how the HR20-100 is listed on your account. It might be leased or listed as owned.


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## InterMurph (Dec 18, 2007)

I tried the program davel mentioned, but it didn't work. It found the drive, but kept getting errors trying to spin it up and disable the POS feature.

Dang, maybe this drive is actually busted.


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## THX723 (Aug 9, 2008)

InterMurph said:


> I tried the program davel mentioned, but it didn't work. It found the drive, but kept getting errors trying to spin it up and disable the POS feature.
> 
> Dang, maybe this drive is actually busted.


Hmmm, that's odd. Don't give up just yet.

What was the exact error message(s) you were getting?

Although it should not have mattered, but was the particular hdd the only drive connected (aside from the CD drive) and set as master?

Some hdd, like my newer Western Digital, also has external override jumpers for Power Up In Standby (PUID). If they exist, verify that it is disabled.

Good luck!


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