# VOD Beta should result in management firings



## OldRick

I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.

I’m a guy with decades of experience in software design and implementation – I’ve got some skills in this area - here are my gripes with the current VOD:

- Bad concept – that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR. 
Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
Overall design = C-

- Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless. 
Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as ‘Spiderman’ in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original “Italian Connection” with Michael Caine – it hasn’t been broadcast for months or years, but I’d pay to watch it if offered on VOD. 
Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn’t very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
Content selection = F

- The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
“Movies”, “High-Def”, and “Interests” do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
Categorization of Content = F

- Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive – you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs. 
Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show – “Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel”. 
This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating – not the way to please your customers.
Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)

So my advice to anyone considering hooking up their HR20 to the Internet for VOD is that if it costs you more than $.75 for a used ethernet cable, you will conclude that you wasted money. I cannot imagine that the Beta implementation will please anyone – it is truly offal.

Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


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## Knon2000

Man, you are a REALLY hard person to please. I personally think the implemantion is pretty good. 
Look in the guide, find the listing you want. Using the search function, it lists the showings that are available.
If your showings are listed several hundred times, you are looking at a show that is obviously being shown ALOT.
Not everyone can be pleased all the time, however, this really seems like someone *****ing just to be *****ing.
Kevin


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## mroot

My only real complaint is, if you don't have Showtime or Encore, then it shouldn't show up as something to download. I imagine the reason it's there, is if you see something you like, you'd subcribe to get it.

Oh, and no HD content.


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## jtn

OldRick said:


> I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.
> 
> I'm a guy with decades of experience in software design and implementation - I've got some skills in this area - here are my gripes with the current VOD:
> 
> - Bad concept - that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR.
> Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
> IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
> Overall design = C-
> 
> - Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless.
> Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as 'Spiderman' in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original "Italian Connection" with Michael Caine - it hasn't been broadcast for months or years, but I'd pay to watch it if offered on VOD.
> Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn't very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
> There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
> I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
> Content selection = F
> 
> - The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
> "Movies", "High-Def", and "Interests" do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
> It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
> Categorization of Content = F
> 
> - Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
> For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
> Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive - you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs.
> Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show - "Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel".
> This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating - not the way to please your customers.
> Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)
> 
> So my advice to anyone considering hooking up their HR20 to the Internet for VOD is that if it costs you more than $.75 for a used ethernet cable, you will conclude that you wasted money. I cannot imagine that the Beta implementation will please anyone - it is truly offal.
> 
> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


Listen calm down, and relax, put yourself in the shoes of DirecTV, who is trying to please you. Do you think that every human being that makes a mistake should be hanged? Fired? No, we all as human beings are learning every day. Without proper training, and guidance, we will always have the critic who will *never* be satisfied. There is no deliberate attempt by DirecTV to insult, injure, or hurt any customer, if you don't like it, then move on. Quit DirecTV and take on another carrier, it's a free society. :nono2:

It is a BETA okay.


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## Hutchinshouse

mroot said:


> My only real complaint is, if you don't have Showtime or Encore, then it shouldn't show up as something to download. I imagine the reason it's there, is if you see something you like, you'd subcribe to get it.
> 
> Oh, and no HD content.


Maybe when CIR fully works it will hide the DOD channels you do not subscribe to.

Fully agree on HD content! Anything in HD would be nice.


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## OldRick

knon2000, You are right - I am a hard guy to please, particularly with software. It took TiVo a couple of years to get it right, too. What I'm griping about is that it was released to Production in such poor condition.

I don't view anything about VoD as an attempt to insult customers (no idea where you got that, jtn), just as an example of really poor software design and management. The current implementation is not yet suitable for commercial use, IMHO, and the code should not have been allowed out to the general public, regardless of how late it was delivered. 

There is no excuse for a piece of software that entices you into making a choice, and then only after clicking and re-clicking, tells you that you can't do that. That's a slap in the face of the user, and a really crummy piece of software. 

There are three levels of testing software: Alpha (internal testing), Beta (very limited customer TESTING), C-test (actual customer USE, with customers who know it's likely to be buggy - support is also being tested and trained), and finally, the general rollout to customers. The CE program would be a good example of C-test.

However, now that the VoD feature is being distributed to the world, it is is not a Beta or even a C-test, but is fully supported production code that is being delivered to all customers. 

I'd want to refer to it as a Beta-version too, if I had been involved, but in fact, it is DTV's current production code..

When one delivers a piece of software for production, it is supposedly in its final form, and reasonably functional. Current VoD does not seem to meet the reasonably functional qualification, and I'd be embarrassed to admit it if I had been involved in the VoD Search function. 

If I sound annoyed, it's because I spent money on a wireless game adapter, to in order to access a feature that isn't presently worth a quarter of what I spent. I would not advise anyone to spend money to use the VoD features until they get a LOT better than the current Production code that is being rolled out at this time. 

Even though it is being rolled out as Supported Production code, it should have remained in test status in the CE program - I'd agree with jtn on that part...


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## dervari

I'd like to see you be able to include/exclude VOD channels in the "On Demand" listing.


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## Tom Robertson

I've deleted several OT posts and insults. Please keep this thread on the topic of the DoD beta, and OldRick's comments.

Thanks,
Tom


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## dbmaven

I won't get into the fact that you're not the only one around with "decades of experience in software design.....etc, etc"...

What you're describing is not a software design issue - it's a user interface/navigation design issue, as well as a matter of preference. 
You would prefer a single integrated guide.
I - and possibly others - would not. 
Since the Guide is time based (showing what is on, or what will be on, at a particular time) I have difficulty imagining how you list all of the On Demand content in the existing (time-based) guide - which is what it sounds like you're suggesting.

As for content - I agree. The content at this time, mostly because there's no HD available, holds no particular fascination for me. 

But, since it is a BETA, I'm willing to let them figure things out and take real world user feedback into account before damning someone to termination. If you don't like the BETA, then don't use it - wait till the BETA tag is removed then try it. Or don't - your choice.

So far, on the whole, from what I've tried, I'd give it a middle-of-the pack C+ or B- overall. If HD content were available, that would go up, possibly quite a bit.


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## tonyd79

OldRick said:


> - Bad concept - that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR.
> Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
> IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
> Overall design = C-


How do you put non-linear channels in a linear guide? TBS alone has dozens of programs available at the same time via On Demand. You want them all shown in the guide at 247? That would be messy.

Of course there is a difference between broadcast content and on demand. Broadcast content can only be viewed (live) or recorded when the broadcaster puts it out. On demand content can be retrieved at any time. They are different, so why would you mash them into the same display.

In fact, searches on the HR20 show on demand in the same search result. I am not sure I like that or not, but it does it.

Grading on a curve (based upon other implementations I have seen), DirecTV actually would get an A- from me. Small quirks but a quick, clean navigation works well.



OldRick said:


> - Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless.
> Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as 'Spiderman' in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original "Italian Connection" with Michael Caine - it hasn't been broadcast for months or years, but I'd pay to watch it if offered on VOD.
> Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn't very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
> There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
> I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
> Content selection = F


This has NOTHING to do with the implementation. Every On Demand system builds over time. Come back and look at this in six months not on intial deployment. There is actually quite a bit for a first launch. Grade should be incomplete.



OldRick said:


> - The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
> "Movies", "High-Def", and "Interests" do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
> It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
> Categorization of Content = F


Actually quite aligned with the categories in the filters and searches on the HR20 (and on the Tivo for that matter). Why do "movies" and "hi-def" not belong in the same menu? They are main categories. And they are not mutually exclusive, so they work just fine. How would YOU determine which menu item goes where? If I am a customer and I want to see what HD stuff there is, I choose HD. If I want to see what movies there are, I choose movies. What is wrong with that? I fear you are speaking more like a programmer or a database person than a person trying to find things quickly and easily.



OldRick said:


> - Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
> For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
> Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive - you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs.
> Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show - "Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel".
> This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating - not the way to please your customers.
> Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)


You do know that you can use the regular search to find programs both in the guide and in On Demand? And folders are in the latest national release that is rolling out. They are also testing a new method of finding programs within the On demand listings in the lastest CE. Otherwise, I have found it quite easy to find what I am looking for.



OldRick said:


> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


You sure you work in coding? There are tons of consumer code that are beta test to the general public. That is all this is. Just because everyone can get it does not mean it is final production code. Welcome to the 21st century. Your view of what is alpha and beta and production no longer applies. It hasn't for a few years now.


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## PoitNarf

dbmaven said:


> Since the Guide is time based (showing what is on, or what will be on, at a particular time) I have difficulty imagining how you list all of the On Demand content in the existing (time-based) guide - which is what it sounds like you're suggesting.


+1

And from me the VOD implementation gets an A- from me at this point. In terms of content currently available, a C+.


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## michaelyork29

One word: BETA


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## gcisko

OldRick said:


> If I sound annoyed, it's because I spent money on a wireless game adapter, to in order to access a feature that isn't presently worth a quarter of what I spent. I would not advise anyone to spend money to use the VoD features until they get a LOT better than the current Production code that is being rolled out at this time.
> 
> Even though it is being rolled out as Supported Production code, it should have remained in test status in the CE program - I'd agree with jtn on that part...


But it is beta. You claim to know what that means yet you are venting. I have already downloaded several shows and they all seemed fine. No comercials to speak of. There will obviously be HD content.

Also I have to point out you get an "F" yourself for not knowing what ON DEMAND is. It was originally for shows that had been broadcast but missed somehow. So you get to see them ON DEMAND. Obviously if you recorded it via your DVR you may not need On Demand. However my dish recently got misaligned and I missed a show. So I figured ON DEMAND to the rescue. Only to find out SciFi is not ON DEMAND at the moment. I was able to deal with it (after spending what you did to get it going) without blowing a blood vessel in my forehead :eek2:

Cheers :lol:


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## gcisko

michaelyork29 said:


> One word: BETA


You may have missed the part about being a big time programmer :lol:


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## m0ondoggy

Guys, I don't understand this. The guy is venting in a proper place to vent his honest opinion. Rumor has it DirecTV actually reads these boards, so instead of apologizing for every mistake they make, why don't we just let people vent instead of defending a multi-million dollar business? I've seen changes come about in the HR20 that I'm sure are a direct result of rants on this board. I happen to agree with the OP on principle, but don't feel as strongly about it.


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## Ryanm86

michaelyork29 said:


> One word: BETA


Thank you this is the most intelligent post yet.


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## Earl Bonovich

m0ondoggy said:


> Guys, I don't understand this. The guy is venting in a proper place to vent his honest opinion. Rumor has it DirecTV actually reads these boards, so instead of apologizing for every mistake they make, why don't we just let people vent instead of defending a multi-million dollar business? I've seen changes come about in the HR20 that I'm sure are a direct result of rants on this board. I happen to agree with the OP on principle, but don't feel as strongly about it.


There is a differente between VENTING, RANTING, Calling for the firing of management....

As noted... the product is beta... and you are more then capable and allowed to post your feelings about how it is designed, how it works, ect....

As that is part of the point of the beta phases.

Even if you look back at the first public push of DoD... it has changed a bit, nto a lot but someone... and it can continue to change as well.

So please... enough of the attacking the person, but if you want to be critical...... be constructive.

And at the end of the day... There is no single design that is going to make everyone happy.

As for one... I personally would not like to see the DoD content intermixed in the guide, I like that it is seperate.

As for the content: This shouldn't not even be really a debate right now, as it is a beta phase, service has been out there for only about 2 months... and the library is only going to grow over time.... You have to start somewhere.


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## OldRick

IMHO, it's bad enough that many people who take the trouble to get it working will abandon it and not try again. That is the poor management judgment that I am griping about.

Management should have waited until it worked better before rolling it out, and whether one chooses to call it Beta or not, it is embarrassingly poorly done function at this time.

For me, I'll try it again after the first of the year, and if it is not dramatically improved by then, I'll put the game adapter on eBay.


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## Earl Bonovich

OldRick said:


> IMHO, it's bad enough that many people who take the trouble to get it working will abandon it and not try again. That is the poor management judgment that I am griping about.
> 
> Management should have waited until it worked better before rolling it out, and whether one chooses to call it Beta or not, it is embarrassingly poorly done function at this time.
> 
> For me, I'll try it again after the first of the year, and if it is not dramatically improved by then, I'll put the game adapter on eBay.


Disconnect your network adapter and wait then...
No one said you HAD to use it right now during the BETA phase.

Sorry you find it embarrasing, but again... no interface is going to be perfect for everyone....

Don't expect massive changes it it between "now" and when the BETA name is removed from it.


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## Ryanm86

Its looks so easy from the cheap seats. There is always one Monday morning quarterback.


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## Ryanm86

Earl Bonovich said:


> Disconnect your network adapter and wait then...
> No one said you HAD to use it right now during the BETA phase.
> 
> Sorry you find it embarrasing, but again... no interface is going to be perfect for everyone....
> 
> Don't expect massive changes it it between "now" and when the BETA name is removed from it.


Some day I think Earl is going to whip out an oozie and take us all out.


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## Earl Bonovich

Ryanm86 said:


> Some day I think Earl is going to whip out an oozie and take us all out.


Nah....
Just setting expectations appropriately...

If anyone is under the impression that DoD is going to get a massive overhall in it's structure, usage, and implementation before it goes un-BETA is simply fooling themselves.

It will be "tweaked" and somethings changed, but for the most part... what you see today... is what you will see "tomorrow"

The only "major" thing I see changing, is in the content area (more titles, more channels, and increased PQ)


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## OldRick

BTW, I did miss the fact that the VoD's now appear in the search listings. Based on that, I'll raise my grade for the searching to a D+. I'd raise it to a C, except that VoD Series do not appear in folders, unlike broadcast series, thus cluttering all Search results . 

That doesn't make the categories any more useful, however. Have a look a Movies, and tell me how useful it is to have so many listings that it takes 10 Scroll-downs to get half way through one day of the same movie listing over, and over, and over, and over again...
Categories = F, for being unusable at this time.


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## Earl Bonovich

OldRick said:


> That doesn't make the categories any more useful, however. Have a look a Movies, and tell me how useful it is to have so many listings that it takes 10 Scroll-downs to get half way through one day of the same movie listing over, and over, and over, and over again...
> Categories = F, for being unusable at this time.


So how would you do it, so that it would be an "A"

Given the resources in the HR20, the screen display, user function via the standard OEM remote, ect.... how would you redesign it...

Since you must be "comparing" it to something to grade it, what is your "A" grade system.


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## Ryanm86

OldRick said:


> BTW, I did miss the fact that the VoD's now appear in the search listings. Based on that, I'll raise my grade for the searching to a D+. I'd raise it to a C, except that VoD Series do not appear in folders, unlike broadcast series, thus cluttering all Search results .
> 
> That doesn't make the categories any more useful, however. Have a look a Movies, and tell me how useful it is to have so many listings that it takes 10 Scroll-downs to get half way through one day of the same movie listing over, and over, and over, and over again...
> Categories = F, for being unusable at this time.


I am sorry are you complaining about having a large selection of movies? Well I guess they should trim it down to 10 movies so we dont have to waste our lives scrolling.


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## Stuart Sweet

I think it's actually good and getting better. I agree that searching over such a large list is hard but it is getting easier with some of the CE software we are currently testing. 

Personally, and I've been saying this for about a year, I think if they simply enabled USB keyboard support a lot of these issues would go away.


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## m0ondoggy

Ryanm86 said:


> Some day I think Earl is going to whip out an oozie and take us all out.


Did you mean an Uzi perhaps? (named after it's inventor Uziel Gal)

I've never seen Uzi mis-spelled like that.

/Gun collector.


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## Ryanm86

m0ondoggy said:


> Did you mean an Uzi perhaps? (named after it's inventor Uziel Gal)
> 
> I've never seen Uzi mis-spelled like that.
> 
> /Gun collector.


Yes thank you, were you on the grassy knoll by chance?


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## pdawg17

I don't agree with the arguement that we already have DVRs and can find the programming other ways...DoD makes it much easier to find a music video I want to see or a review of a video game...that by itself has made DoD very worthwhile to me...


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## Ryanm86

Moondoggy r u on a watch list?


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## m0ondoggy

Ryanm86 said:


> Yes thank you, were you on the grassy knoll by chance?


No, that was done with an Italian Carcano. Even I have standards... 

Back to the original topic....

I hope the OP gives some constructive ideas on what can be done. I'm sure DirecTV is listening. Again, I agree it could be better, but Earl has a point, calling for someone's firing during a beta period is probably a bit premature.


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## m0ondoggy

Ryanm86 said:


> Moondoggy r u on a watch list?


Are you 12? Because I'm a gun collector? last time I checked that was perfectly legal 

If I were on a watch list I'm sure I'd be the last to know. We're ALL on a watch list, don't you know?


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## Ryanm86

m0ondoggy said:


> Are you 12? Because I'm a gun collector? last time I checked that was perfectly legal
> 
> If I were on a watch list I'm sure I'd be the last to know. We're ALL on a watch list, don't you know?


It was a joke relax, put the weapon down & no I am 12 & 1/2


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## Earl Bonovich

:backtotop


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## Ryanm86

Actually I think this is a rant its hard to respond to a guy thats just mad about the DOD. So see ya.


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## m0ondoggy

Ryanm86 said:


> It was a joke relax, put the weapon down & no I am 12 & 1/2


I am relaxed, that's what those smiley faces mean.


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## heathramos

I like VOD so far but my major complaint is speed.

It takes forever for me to download anything.

I have mainly downloaded music videos so far but I think it took me 4 hours to download 1.5 hours of SD content. I wonder how long it will take if I download an HD movie?

My only other complaint is the categorizing and searching, but that isn't a huge issue for now.

Oh...and I don't think any content complaints mean much during beta phase.


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## pecocus

It's always interesting to read a post critical of anything D* has done and then see the defenders leap into the fray. While I agree with Earl that calling for firing people was a little over the top, the OP stated an opinon... in detail, then stuck around to discuss/defend it. Why do some people feel they have to attack the OP for that? Do you really believe that all D* wants to see out of these boards is positive comments? I seriously doubt it. 

Please... agree or disagree with the opinon, discuss (not insult) the particulars, but let's leave behind the need to make sarcastic comments about the OP or his background or motivation for posting.


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## gcisko

OldRick said:


> IMHO, it's bad enough that many people who take the trouble to get it working will abandon it and not try again. That is the poor management judgment that I am griping about.


Who said anything about not trying it again? I have it setup and am going to sit tight until the full thing happens. Again why or how did you come to this conclusion?


OldRick said:


> Management should have waited until it worked better before rolling it out, and whether one chooses to call it Beta or not, it is embarrassingly poorly done function at this time.


In your opinion. Obviously we are all aware of the drawbacks. As it is beta though, I think it is good that D* gave us a heads up to let us get the proper networking going. And also to let us check it to see a little of what it can do. And... there is a chance we will have some input to D0D's end result.


----------



## gcisko

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nah....
> Just setting expectations appropriately...
> 
> If anyone is under the impression that DoD is going to get a massive overhall in it's structure, usage, and implementation before it goes un-BETA is simply fooling themselves.
> 
> It will be "tweaked" and somethings changed, but for the most part... what you see today... is what you will see "tomorrow"
> 
> The only "major" thing I see changing, is in the content area (more titles, more channels, and increased PQ)


And this last part is what I am EXPECTING to improve. So cool... I am happy with the menus and just want the major networks and SciFi on demand...


----------



## su_A_ve

I think many of us have grown to 'accept' sloppiness as the norm. M$ is a great example.

On the other hand, why not just release it to the public in full, but 'call it a beta' to cover ourselves (ie Google)...

For me, I agree in many respects with OldRick - It's not beta - it barely makes it to Alpha code...

The internal code was probably developed to run in twice the memory and twice the processor power, which were eventually shrunk to cut costs... Sure, Vista runs on 512mb of Ram...

My .02...


----------



## gcisko

pecocus said:


> It's always interesting to read a post critical of anything D* has done and then see the defenders leap into the fray. While I agree with Earl that calling for firing people was a little over the top, the OP stated an opinon... in detail, then stuck around to discuss/defend it. Why do some people feel they have to attack the OP for that? Do you really believe that all D* wants to see out of these boards is positive comments? I seriously doubt it.


Well in my case I used DoD and liked it for what it is. So if you come here venting like that, you better have something more than over the top expectations. Or expect people like me (who like it for what it is) to push back.

Earl asked OldRick the same thing I was going to ask. Instead of venting about what is bad about it, how about trying something constructive like making some good suggestions to make it better.

Like I said I used it already, I liked the VERY limited comercials. So I feel all in all DoD would be awesome as long as I can get the content I want ON DEMAND.


----------



## gcisko

su_A_ve said:


> I think many of us have grown to 'accept' sloppiness as the norm. M$ is a great example.
> 
> On the other hand, why not just release it to the public in full, but 'call it a beta' to cover ourselves (ie Google)...
> 
> For me, I agree in many respects with OldRick - It's not beta - it barely makes it to Alpha code...
> 
> The internal code was probably developed to run in twice the memory and twice the processor power, which were eventually shrunk to cut costs... Sure, Vista runs on 512mb of Ram...
> 
> My .02...


Do you have anything at all to back this up???


----------



## harsh

Knon2000 said:


> Using the search function, it lists the showings that are available.


What possible justification could there be for having different showings of the same program on VOD? Sounds more like PPV than _on demand_.


----------



## harsh

m0ondoggy said:


> I hope the OP gives some constructive ideas on what can be done.


Always key. Of course it could be argued that if you're going to loose a product on an unsuspecting public that the offerer will have done surveys , focus groups and some basic hands-on testing long before somebody codifies it and distributes the code nationally.


----------



## jdouglas2000

Just hooked up my Ethernet Converter this weekend. After waiting a few hours for content, I was quickly able to find several shows that I had missed the first time they were on and download them. I don't know that I would pay much extra for it, but find the VOD feature to be useful and a nice addition

I agree that some improvements in the interface are needed though. HD content should be avialable as well


----------



## m0ondoggy

harsh said:


> Always key. Of course it could be argued that if you're going to loose a product on an unsuspecting public that the offerer will have done surveys , focus groups and some basic hands-on testing long before somebody codifies it and distributes the code nationally.


That's just crazy talk.


----------



## cb7214

harsh said:


> What possible justification could there be for having different showings of the same program on VOD? Sounds more like PPV than _on demand_.


maybe the fact if people may search by channel except by topic or going to all and having to scroll through 1000's of titles at a time, meaning just because its on channel x someone searching for something to download on channel w and y may skip right over x and miss it


----------



## F1 Fan

harsh said:


> What possible justification could there be for having different showings of the same program on VOD? Sounds more like PPV than _on demand_.


This is a beta and so still fine tuning. I like the OP am a software engineer. I know that VOD has 2 current search functions - from the Menu - On Demand and from within the guide. They are not currently connected or at the same filter level.

The one from On Demand pulls up everything from the database (whether it is in your guide or not - it appears to go through every channel and search it). This is why we have multiple listings for one program - it hasnt been filtered yet - just a rough search. And it is also why some things show up and then you get a "subscribe" to this channel message. To stop everyone whining they could just take out the On Demand from the main menu and leave it to just the guide - till they are finished.

This is EXACTLY why they have BETA testing and what is going on now. But it is just a tidy up of a database query so no need to be firing someone. I have made that mistake a few times over the years and others.

Secondly - it is oh so easy to come up with problems - but a bit OTT to suggest firing someone because YOU (out of 16.5m subs) wouldnt have done it that way. Please find the problems and report them. If you have constructive criticism then please also give us solutions - or put them on the wish list for the HR20/21.

If people claim to be in the IT/Engineering industry then you know how hard it is to co-ordinate everything that is going on a Directv at present (new HD, new sat about to be launched, new hardware, new features, networking, remote booking). Mistakes will be made. The point is not to blame, the point is to find them quickly, fix them, test the fix and roll it out.


----------



## F1 Fan

Earl Bonovich said:


> So how would you do it, so that it would be an "A"
> 
> Given the resources in the HR20, the screen display, user function via the standard OEM remote, ect.... how would you redesign it...
> 
> Since you must be "comparing" it to something to grade it, what is your "A" grade system.


It is almost there for an "A" in my book.

The On Demand search needs to be cleaned up - the 2 problems at present are that it is showing stuff that isnt available (so that will disappear when the beta is done) and it gives duplicates (so just a DB query clean up).

The other problem is the folders for series would make it a lot easier to scroll through.

Final 2 are more content (which will come on board soon) and HD content (again soon).

Once that is all done it will look and feel much like the broadcast side of things and so a more usable UI.

Once remote booking comes out nationally then it will be almost an A+ (only get that if the content is out of this world).


----------



## FlyinV

It appears to be on par with what I had on Comcast Ondemand except...
DirecTV seems to offer more titles "on demand"

I do hope at some point they can shift some HD on demand over the satellite channels (somehow) -- I do worry Comcast will bother me about usage if I watch a lot of ondemand HD when its here.

So far the first time I went ondemand it was quick and easy to find something I wanted. I am pretty happy and I am saving a lot of money switching from Comcast to DirecTV so thats the most important part


----------



## paule123

OldRick said:


> I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.


If you think DirecTV's implementation is bad, You should see the software design and implementation of VOD and EPG on the SA8300HD cable DVR. That thing doesn't even _have_ a search function.

You'll need to fire all the staff at Scientific-Atlanta as well. 

I played with the HR20 VOD over the weekend, it wasn't bad. Just needs some HD content to play with.


----------



## BkwSoft

The only issue I have had with VOD is when you are looking at the listings for TV series, I would like to see all shows for that series in a folder. This should make the pages shorter and easier to navigate as well.

Of course I wouldn't complain if they enabled USB keyboard support. I've never been much into SMS style tripple taps.


----------



## F1 Fan

FlyinV said:


> It appears to be on par with what I had on Comcast Ondemand except...
> DirecTV seems to offer more titles "on demand"
> 
> I do hope at some point they can shift some HD on demand over the satellite channels (somehow) -- I do worry Comcast will bother me about usage if I watch a lot of ondemand HD when its here.
> 
> So far the first time I went ondemand it was quick and easy to find something I wanted. I am pretty happy and I am saving a lot of money switching from Comcast to DirecTV so thats the most important part


they will do that eventually. There has been rumors that some more "demanded" or popular (or I suspect - paid to be put there) content will be downloaded overnight, a bit like the showcases.


----------



## pecocus

gcisko said:


> Well in my case I used DoD and liked it for what it is. So if you come here venting like that, you better have something more than over the top expectations. Or expect people like me (who like it for what it is) to push back.
> 
> Earl asked OldRick the same thing I was going to ask. Instead of venting about what is bad about it, how about trying something constructive like making some good suggestions to make it better.
> 
> Like I said I used it already, I liked the VERY limited comercials. So I feel all in all DoD would be awesome as long as I can get the content I want ON DEMAND.


I may not have been very clear... if you like it, then certainly push back. You have just as much right to like it as anyone else does to dislike it. I was just trying to say let's keep it to the issues and avoid taking potshots at the poster. Not saying you did, by the way... more of a general comment as you read the entire thread. Also, I think if you read through the original post, he did make some suggestions.

By the way... cool avatar.


----------



## bobnielsen

BkwSoft said:


> Of course I wouldn't complain if they enabled USB keyboard support. I've never been much into SMS style tripple taps.


I agree, although I grew up in the era of dial telephones, before there were area codes (and have even used a few with a crank).


----------



## jctnrm

First off I'm new on here, so maybe I'm missing something. Isn't the DoD basically free? Except for the PPV titles? If you have Showtime, you get Showtime on Demand, right? I know the OP said he had to get a wireless adapter, but besides that, no costs. 

I've had D* since February now and am highly impressed with everything they have done so far. The DoD is basically the same as cable's VoD except for downloading and I remember when I had cable it seemed like every other time I wanted to access VoD it crashed and I had to wait for the box to reboot.

The only complaints I would have is that there is no HBO, Cinemax, TMC on Demand and no HD programming, but that is coming. Also my Cable modem seems to be crashing ALOT more than normal since I got DoD hooked up, not necessarilly while dowloading DoD, sometimes, but also for no reason at all, but hopefully that will be fixed in about a week, I'm switching to DSL (cable has raped me far to long).


----------



## gcisko

pecocus said:


> I may not have been very clear... if you like it, then certainly push back. You have just as much right to like it as anyone else does to dislike it. I was just trying to say let's keep it to the issues and avoid taking potshots at the poster. Not saying you did, by the way... more of a general comment as you read the entire thread. Also, I think if you read through the original post, he did make some suggestions.


I guess he lost me with his suggestions with the flaming "fire everyone involved" prose. That seemed more the point of the post. And I did read the entire thing 



pecocus said:


> By the way... cool avatar.


It is my favorite show and better than my last avatar.


----------



## gcisko

jctnrm said:


> First off I'm new on here, so maybe I'm missing something. Isn't the DoD basically free? Except for the PPV titles? If you have Showtime, you get Showtime on Demand, right? I know the OP said he had to get a wireless adapter, but besides that, no costs.
> 
> I've had D* since February now and am highly impressed with everything they have done so far. The DoD is basically the same as cable's VoD except for downloading and I remember when I had cable it seemed like every other time I wanted to access VoD it crashed and I had to wait for the box to reboot.
> 
> The only complaints I would have is that there is no HBO, Cinemax, TMC on Demand and no HD programming, but that is coming. Also my Cable modem seems to be crashing ALOT more than normal since I got DoD hooked up, not necessarilly while dowloading DoD, sometimes, but also for no reason at all, but hopefully that will be fixed in about a week, I'm switching to DSL (cable has raped me far to long).


Even though it is free. The wireless game adapter cost me $65 and the wireless router $50. So there is a cost... But you should recognize it as the cost of doing bussiness as it were and not blow a blood vessel.


----------



## Mixer

Without reading the whole thread here I have one question for the OP or anyone else that wants DoD data in the guide......

Why?

Why would you want this content in the guide. The guide is a place to show programming that is scheduled. 

No offense but if you worked for D* and suggested that non scheduled programming go in the guide I would ask that you be the one fired. 

Not really but you see the point.


----------



## Dusty

I disagree with OP. I am using DoD, mostly for kids programming. 

I think the concept is great. It's too early to judge contents in beta phase, but I am finding shows that we wouldn't have otherwise watched on DoD. I found Zinc, Zinc, Zinc, Violin through search for kids programming. Watched it real time with my 4 year old. It was great.

I assume we will get HD contents eventually. I think we will need access to network progamming shows. I wish I have the option to record Chuck off DoD so I have one more tuner to record the last a few minutes of Monday Night Football.


----------



## rkreitl

I keep hearing all this talk of experienced software developers and how DOD is in BETA so we shouldn't expect too much of it....just what definition of BETA is everyone using?

In my experience software is released for BETA testing once all of the design, features and UI have been defined and locked down. BETA testing is to test the functionality of the features and design for unknown bugs or defects, not to generate a wish list of features. Any organization that keeps adding or "tweeking" features through the BETA testing process will never get out of that process. Take a look at the definition of the BETA stage of testing on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_test#Beta

Plus, how can DOD be considered BETA? Other than the word BETA on the screen. Anyone with a -700 and the NR can use it. According to most generally accepted SDLCs if your software is available to everyone it's generally not considered BETA.


----------



## dbhsatx

rkreitl said:


> I keep hearing all this talk of experienced software developers and how DOD is in BETA so we shouldn't expect too much of it....just what definition of BETA is everyone using?
> 
> In my experience software is released for BETA testing once all of the design, features and UI have been defined and locked down. BETA testing is to test the functionality of the features and design for unknown bugs or defects, not to generate a wish list of features. Any organization that keeps adding or "tweeking" features through the BETA testing process will never get out of that process. Take a look at the definition of the BETA stage of testing on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_test#Beta
> 
> Plus, how can DOD be considered BETA? Other than the word BETA on the screen. Anyone with a -700 and the NR can use it. According to most generally accepted SDLCs if your software is available to everyone it's generally not considered BETA.


You beat me to it... The only thing keeping DOD from being out of BETA testing is advertising. It's in the NR software for the -700 and -100.


----------



## gcisko

rkreitl said:


> Plus, how can DOD be considered BETA? Other than the word BETA on the screen. Anyone with a -700 and the NR can use it. According to most generally accepted SDLCs if your software is available to everyone it's generally not considered BETA.


Have you used it? I have and it works fine. It has all the features I think I need and can get the content with no problem. The one problem is lack of content. I have never had it not work. I hardly think it is beta code. So for me when I see "beta" I see it as them putting it out there but you will get more channels and content. It is "beta" now because it is lacking that stuff and they are just seeing how a smaller implementation works. But functionally it works.


----------



## gcisko

dbhsatx said:


> You beat me to it... The only thing keeping DOD from being out of BETA testing is advertising. It's in the NR software for the -700 and -100.


OK I reread the OP, and I still feel it was 100% out of line and wrong. Not once did he say the service did not work. He was complaining about searching and lack of content. What appears to have been ignored was the fact that the base DoD system is there and works (downloads your shows). So I believe BETA is totally appropriate.


----------



## rkreitl

gcisko said:


> Have you used it? I have and it works fine. It has all the features I think I need and can get the content with no problem. The one problem is lack of content. I have never had it not work. I hardly think it is beta code. So for me when I see "beta" I see it as them putting it out there but you will get more channels and content. It is "beta" now because it is lacking that stuff and they are just seeing how a smaller implementation works. But functionally it works.


Yes I have used it. Only to a limited extent, but the time I did I was looking to watch The Thomas Crown Affair. But the dismal guide data on DOD didn't tell me which one I would be watching. It didn't list the year and didn't list any actors. Meanwhile on the Real world side Crown on whatever channel was showing it did list the actors. So DOD guide data <> currently showing guide data. Interesting. Guess just another way we can blame the guide data for DOD not working properly. :grin:

Mind you I'm not complaining about what DOD does or doesn't do, I was just calling attention to the fact that many of these self proclaimed expert software developers obviously don't know the accepted definition of a BETA test program. Any time someone complains about DOD the overwhelming response is the excuse it's still in BETA. And as I previously stated, if all HR20 users can access DOD the only way it's BETA is because D* has "BETA" on all the screens.

Get a life here, that's like Microsoft downloading an upgrade to your PC that gives you a great new feature and when you find out it doesn't work (surprise  ) they claim it's BETA and they can't support it because it's in "BETA".

So gcisko, you mentioned DOD works great for you. Only thing lacking is content. But that's because it's in BETA right? :eek2: What's it take to increase content? More content, not new software. So if everyone here believes DOD works just fine and the only thing lacking is content, why does D* still have this in BETA....BETA that anyone can use?

Your comment hits exactly the point I was trying to make. The software must be ready as it's in every HR20. The BETA side is they don't know how or can't increase content and bandwidth. That's not BETA, that's just plain ole poor design. Kinda back to what the OP mentioned in post #1.

Somewhat like CIR must still be in BETA since we hear every receiver can handle it but for some reason it's taking years for D* to fix it. :lol:


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Given today's software enviornment...

Providing BETA versions of software early to those willing to snag and use is pretty much the normal thing now. And yes, that includes a BETA that EVERYONE can use... (Take a look at Google, Yahoo, MSN, ect... it is becomming the norm for everyone to have access to the BETA version of something, in it's first release time frame)

And I love how you have the answers to why this is still in BETA... 

They know EXACTLY how to increase content and their bandwith needs... and no it is not "plain ole poor design"... you might not like how it is designed... that doesn't make it a "poor design" to everyone.

If those that are not happy with the service... and don't like the fact that it is in the BETA... which is a fact of the of the issue... And don't like the fact that they only have about ~3000 titles today in DoD.... then disconnect the network port, and wait till you see a notice about the BETA tag being removed.


----------



## gcisko

Earl Bonovich said:


> Given today's software enviornment...
> 
> Providing BETA versions of software early to those willing to snag and use is pretty much the normal thing now. And yes, that includes a BETA that EVERYONE can use... (Take a look at Google, Yahoo, MSN, ect... it is becomming the norm for everyone to have access to the BETA version of something, in it's first release time frame)
> 
> And I love how you have the answers to why this is still in BETA...
> 
> They know EXACTLY how to increase content and their bandwith needs... and no it is not "plain ole poor design"... you might not like how it is designed... that doesn't make it a "poor design" to everyone.
> 
> If those that are not happy with the service... and don't like the fact that it is in the BETA... which is a fact of the of the issue... And don't like the fact that they only have about ~3000 titles today in DoD.... then disconnect the network port, and wait till you see a notice about the BETA tag being removed.


Fine by me! I already have said I am OK with it so far. What I will object to is what I found in the GUIDE. Now as we all know the On Demand is showing up in the guide. What frosted me was they had the nerve to say "infinate choices". I Mean come on. I am willing to go along with the program to an extent. But I hold the line where they are trying to present themselves as something that it is not. "infinate" is quite a bit and I think what we have now is nowhere close. So someone better step up and make it right before they look foolish.

*In my opinion  *


----------



## rkreitl

Earl Bonovich said:


> And I love how you have the answers to why this is still in BETA...


Then why is DOD still in BETA? You have all the connections, all the info. Oh, that's right, you know everything but can't say anything. Handy isn't it?

My assessment of why DOD is still in BETA is only based on the fact everyone here seems to think it works great. No problems. They're just asking for more content. Thus considered the following:

1) The HR20 software is now in national release. That would indicate D* deems that code as "stable".

2) Biggest complaints are a) speed of download and b) content. Both of which are at the "head" end, not the "client" end.

Conclusion.....

DOD is in BETA because D* is having problems at the "head" end, not the "client" end. I'm not saying I have any answers. Just a reasonable guess. If you have more info to share, please feel free. Oh crap, I keep forgetting you know everything but still can't tell us anything. Never mind. Just keep up the good work of shooting down any theories us mere mortals propose and keep telling us you'll release your secrets when you're told you can do so. :grin:


----------



## Earl Bonovich

Umm... because it is...
As DirecTV is still continuing to work on the initial system, before they are ready to flip it into a full 24/7 production mode feature.

1) Yes, the code is stable... but there is more to DoD then just what you see on the HR20s

2) 
a) speed of download can also be a result of something on the end users side of the equation... 
b) Content is Content... Even when the "beta" is lifted from the DoD, it will still receive more content after that.

Well regardless what you might think of me...
I do keep providing as much information as I can...


----------



## PoitNarf

rkreitl said:


> Then why is DOD still in BETA? You have all the connections, all the info. Oh, that's right, you know everything but can't say anything. Handy isn't it?


Don't shoot the messenger. I'm sure Earl is under a NDA with D* since he does get advance knowledge of a lot of this stuff. He gives us what he can and many of us here are very thankful for that.


----------



## brownerd

OldRick said:


> I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.
> 
> I'm a guy with decades of experience in software design and implementation - I've got some skills in this area - here are my gripes with the current VOD:
> 
> - Bad concept - that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR.
> Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
> IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
> Overall design = C-
> 
> - Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless.
> Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as 'Spiderman' in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original "Italian Connection" with Michael Caine - it hasn't been broadcast for months or years, but I'd pay to watch it if offered on VOD.
> Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn't very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
> There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
> I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
> Content selection = F
> 
> - The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
> "Movies", "High-Def", and "Interests" do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
> It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
> Categorization of Content = F
> 
> - Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
> For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
> Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive - you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs.
> Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show - "Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel".
> This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating - not the way to please your customers.
> Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)
> 
> So my advice to anyone considering hooking up their HR20 to the Internet for VOD is that if it costs you more than $.75 for a used ethernet cable, you will conclude that you wasted money. I cannot imagine that the Beta implementation will please anyone - it is truly offal.
> 
> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


As a software specialist you must have a clear understanding of what beta code is right? VOD has beta written all over it. Could DTV have done more usabilty testing before making this available to us? SURE! But then we would have anything to try out and provide usefull feedback on. I suspect we will be seeing changes to the look and feel at some point.


----------



## harsh

brownerd said:


> As a software specialist you must have a clear understanding of what beta code is right?


The software engineer's version of beta code is decidedly different from Micro$oft's version of beta code. To an old-school software engineer, beta code isn't going to change substantially (with addition or subtraction of major functionality) before release. Alpha code is where you find stick figures and incomplete menus designed to test functionality of various program modules.

Beta was what they had before it became part of the national software release. Gamma is what it became with the national release. At gamma, nothing is expected to change before wide release unless something "unforeseeable" pops up.

Alpha: most functionality is there but interface is incomplete
Beta: functionality has been cast in stone and interface is being tested
Gamma: Everything looks good, but needs more diverse testing. "Limited Release".
Wide release: Game on!


----------



## gfrang

i dont belive in posting about fireing off anybody these are people's livehood
maby sugesting on ways on improving would help.


----------



## tooloud10

michaelyork29 said:


> One word: BETA


But IS it a beta? They've released it as part of the national code. I had no choice but to receive the software, which activated itself automagically because I had a cable hooked up.

From m-w.com (Merriam Webster):

beta: a field test of the beta version of a product (as software) especially by testers outside the company developing it that is conducted prior to commercial release

This code has been released into the wild to every user. By definition, it's NOT beta software.

That said, I agree with the original poster--this DOD stuff is complete crap so far. Here are my complaints:

1) I missed an episode of Brotherhood a few weeks back. To download it, I have to wade through every episode because they're all labeled "Brotherhood 1", "Brotherhood 2", etc.
2) The categories: I agree that it doesn't make sense to have "HD", "Interests", and "TV Series" (for example). It would be very easy to miss programs, especially since the DOD feature really should be set up for #3...
3) The whole thing screams to be set up to find programs by browsing, but they've got it heavily biased towards searching for programs. This makes no sense.

Don't paint the word "beta" in lipstick on a pig and use that as an excuse. If you think they're going to fix all this, remember Earl's words: this is almost exactly what the final product will be, sloppiness and all.


----------



## leww37334

OldRick said:


> knon2000, You are right - I am a hard guy to please, particularly with software. It took TiVo a couple of years to get it right, too. What I'm griping about is that it was released to Production in such poor condition.
> 
> I don't view anything about VoD as an attempt to insult customers (no idea where you got that, jtn), just as an example of really poor software design and management. The current implementation is not yet suitable for commercial use, IMHO, and the code should not have been allowed out to the general public, regardless of how late it was delivered.
> 
> There is no excuse for a piece of software that entices you into making a choice, and then only after clicking and re-clicking, tells you that you can't do that. That's a slap in the face of the user, and a really crummy piece of software.
> 
> There are three levels of testing software: Alpha (internal testing), Beta (very limited customer TESTING), C-test (actual customer USE, with customers who know it's likely to be buggy - support is also being tested and trained), and finally, the general rollout to customers. The CE program would be a good example of C-test.
> 
> However, now that the VoD feature is being distributed to the world, it is is not a Beta or even a C-test, but is fully supported production code that is being delivered to all customers.
> 
> I'd want to refer to it as a Beta-version too, if I had been involved, but in fact, it is DTV's current production code..
> 
> When one delivers a piece of software for production, it is supposedly in its final form, and reasonably functional. Current VoD does not seem to meet the reasonably functional qualification, and I'd be embarrassed to admit it if I had been involved in the VoD Search function.
> 
> If I sound annoyed, it's because I spent money on a wireless game adapter, to in order to access a feature that isn't presently worth a quarter of what I spent. I would not advise anyone to spend money to use the VoD features until they get a LOT better than the current Production code that is being rolled out at this time.
> 
> Even though it is being rolled out as Supported Production code, it should have remained in test status in the CE program - I'd agree with jtn on that part...


You should definitely write Directv and demand they refund the money you paid for VOD.


----------



## tooloud10

leww37334 said:


> You should definitely write Directv and demand they refund the money you paid for VOD.


No, no, no, that's not the way it works--you can't charge me $150/month for a "package", then tell me that the specific item I'm complaining about didn't cost me anything.

You're incredibly naive if you think you're not paying for DOD.


----------



## KCCardsfan

Yes VOD/DOD is BETA.
Yes there should be at least _some_ HD programming. 
YES! The PQ on VOD/DOD is much, much _worse_ than SD.
Yes I understand it's BETA.
Yes I've quit downloading until there is HD programming.
Yes I'm OK with the download speed, 1hr 45min for a 2hr movie (3.0mbs)
Yes it's BETA (for the 3rd time for those who keep pointing it out)


----------



## MartyS

Had to jump in on this one. 

People complained when DoD was "beta" in the CE cycle... they wanted it on their machine... couldn't wait.

During the CE Cycle a lot of comments were made, and some suggestions were implemented and things were tweaked.

I personally don't have a problem with DoD since I switched from an Adelphia/Comcast VOD system that was horrible to navigate or find anything in. This is much easier and effective than what I was used to.

Content is content. In the beginning, there were very few offerings. Now there are many more, and each day there's more and more listings in different categories. As DoD BETA expands, more and more offerings will show up, more and more networks will be added, and the content will be more than anything that my old cable system had to offer.

I have the wireless router, and had it before DoD. I got the gaming adaptor before DoD and used it for Music and Photos, which I use much more than DoD anyway, so there wasn't an additional out of pocket cost to me.

I'm writing this in my browser, which uses the public beta of My Yahoo... that too isn't all that I want it to be, but its improved through the public beta, just as DoD will do as time goes by.


----------



## tooloud10

KCCardsfan said:


> Yes VOD/DOD is BETA.
> Yes there should be at least _some_ HD programming.
> YES! The PQ on VOD/DOD is much, much _worse_ than SD.
> Yes I understand it's BETA.
> Yes I've quit downloading until there is HD programming.
> Yes I'm OK with the download speed, 1hr 45min for a 2hr movie (3.0mbs)
> Yes it's BETA (for the 3rd time for those who keep pointing it out)


The "Beta" tag on the software reminds me of a "Not responsible for accidents" sign you might place on your lawn--it might make some people feel all warm and fuzzy, but it really doesn't absolve one from anything.


----------



## timb2112

However, now that the VoD feature is being distributed to the world, it is is not a Beta or even a C-test, but is fully supported production code that is being delivered to all customers.

It has only been released to the world that has an HR20-700.


----------



## kmill14

I'm amazed that people are spending so much time on the topic of DOD being BETA or not. If DTV wants to refer to it as being in BETA mode, than its in BETA mode.

That said, I find it equally amazing that people want to rip the OP for "ranting" without offering alternate suggestions. Other than him calling for the firing of whoever designed this thing, I think he was fine with his post.

He graded the overall design, content, categorization, and searching and he actually did explain what he didn't like and what he would like it to be. You can agree or disagree, but the guy is certainly entitled to his opinion.

I will add that I think the overall menu design needs improvement. Instead of putting the "browse by channel" feature under MORE VOD, I would just call it "browse by channel". The "browse by channel" feature is the best thing about the entire design, and it is hidden in the "More VOD" catagory. 

TV Series' should be lumped into sub-folders, and not in one massive list for you to scroll through. I rate overall menu design and catagorization as a C, though the "by channel" portion is an A.

Content gets a big F from me. I don't sign up for premium channels, and it seems most movies are from premium channels. I'd be fine if this was an expanded PPV service, and would gladly pay $0.99-1.99 like Amazon offers. Also, if new stuff gets added, I have no idea. I would suggest a "newly added" sub-section in each catagory. 

I have not used the "Search" feature, because I already know the content is not there. 

I have not actually downloaded anything yet, so I cannot rate speed or PQ. The only things I have found worth downloading are on premium stations, and I refuse to sign up for a channel just to access these movies. Like I said, give me a PPV option for all these movies, and I would use it.


----------



## tooloud10

timb2112 said:


> However, now that the VoD feature is being distributed to the world, it is is not a Beta or even a C-test, but is fully supported production code that is being delivered to all customers.
> 
> It has only been released to the world that has an HR20-700.


Tell that to my HR20-100 that's had it for at least a week now.


----------



## gulfwarvet

leww37334 said:


> You should definitely write Directv and demand they refund the money you paid for VOD.


hum, the last time i checked, VOD was free other than "PPV-VOD". so how much would that be  :lol:


----------



## PoitNarf

gulfwarvet said:


> hum, the last time i checked, VOD was free other than "PPV-VOD". so how much would that be  :lol:


Duh! $0.00


----------



## KurtV

kmill14 said:


> I'm amazed that people are spending so much time on the topic of DOD being BETA or not. If DTV wants to refer to it as being in BETA mode, than its in BETA mode...


You're exactly right on this point. All of the detailed definitions of alpha, beta, gamma, etc. software that people have been providing are meaningless. The only important definition of beta in this case is D*'s and their definition seems basically to be, use at your own risk; happily, I think that's the definition that most of the general public uses and accepts.

Anyway, D* seems to be following more of a "rapid prototyping" model of software development than the A, B, G model many of you are referring to. They get something reasonably stable, release it into the wild, get feedback from users, and make modifications based on that feedback. I like that model and enjoy being part of the test team. Others may disagree.

My only beef with DOD so far is lack of HD content and download speed but that's mainly a limitation of my DSL.


----------



## gulfwarvet

PoitNarf said:


> Duh! $0.00


exactly.


----------



## Ken S

Old Rick,

My experience with the HD DVR leads me to believe that the decisions on release of software/hardware at DirecTV come from people that don't care about the service level and only care about checking off a feature comparison list.

This has got to be incredibly frustrating for the development team as I can't believe anyone with any talent or desire to be a developer would be happy with the condition that they have "released" products. I'm sure over time it costs them talented folks who will either leave for a more rewarding environment or not apply in the first place.

While I don't agree with all of your criticisms on the DoD interface...especially regarding those on content. I believe the front-end looks very slapped together and not at all user-friendly or intuitive. I'm sure a year from now they'll have made some progress for whatever that is worth.


----------



## donleycott

Most of the content is for premium channels that I cant receive. The message
that pops up when i select a show is very confusing, it should tell me you cant download this item because you dont subscribe to whatever.

Before I will go back to it, it will need HD cocntent and a broader selection of non premium channels (e.g. LMN Lifetime etc).

Other than the above it works great - download time is quite fast.

Pat


----------



## Hutchinshouse

KCCardsfan said:


> Yes VOD/DOD is BETA.
> Yes there should be at least _some_ HD programming.
> YES! The PQ on VOD/DOD is much, much _worse_ than SD.
> Yes I understand it's BETA.
> Yes I've quit downloading until there is HD programming.
> Yes I'm OK with the download speed, 1hr 45min for a 2hr movie (3.0mbs)
> Yes it's BETA (for the 3rd time for those who keep pointing it out)


Amen! Could not agree more!!!!!!!!! SD DOD is a joke. I didn't buy all HD gear to watch a cheesy SD program. I must have full rez HD!

ATTN: D*! DOD video quality takes precedence over download speed. We all didn't buy HD gear so we can have fast download speeds. We all bought it to watch, you guessed it....... HD!

DOD is far from free! If anyone disagrees, simply deactivate your account then try to download a program. Beta is not a "Get out of jail free card." D* was several months behind and it's still a beta, errr, HD-less beta!

Maybe I'll just write "beta" on all of my paperwork @ work. This way I'm not held accountable if things go astray, or I miss my deadline by months.

OUT


----------



## gulfwarvet

Hutchinshouse said:


> DOD is far from free! If anyone disagrees, simply deactivate your account then try to download a program.


now i'm NOT saying i disagree with you, but....

Maybe i'm missing something here, i have NOT even seen a charge on my billing just for VOD. nor have i seen anyone post they got billed for it. and what your suggesting about deactivating your account and see what you can download. well you only deactivating a service that has no charge, unless you downloading PPV VOD content, then i can see your point.

now for the HD VOD content it's coming, just got to be patient like the rest of us.


----------



## alfredocima

I don’t want to sound like a DirecTV cheer leader, but….
1.	I am not paying extra for the service; and
2.	No one misled me as to what to expect; and
3.	Given the constraints set forth by the UI and the remote, I can’t really think of design change considerations to this feature that would not detract from other features (such as the placement in the guide, the channel numbers, etc.)
4.	Most importantly, however, CONTENT IS BOUND TO GROW enormously and this will trump all complaints.


----------



## Spazzman

OldRick said:


> I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.
> 
> I'm a guy with decades of experience in software design and implementation - I've got some skills in this area - here are my gripes with the current VOD:
> 
> - Bad concept - that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR.
> Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
> IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
> Overall design = C-
> 
> - Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless.
> Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as 'Spiderman' in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original "Italian Connection" with Michael Caine - it hasn't been broadcast for months or years, but I'd pay to watch it if offered on VOD.
> Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn't very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
> There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
> I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
> Content selection = F
> 
> - The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
> "Movies", "High-Def", and "Interests" do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
> It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
> Categorization of Content = F
> 
> - Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
> For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
> Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive - you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs.
> Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show - "Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel".
> This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating - not the way to please your customers.
> Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)
> 
> So my advice to anyone considering hooking up their HR20 to the Internet for VOD is that if it costs you more than $.75 for a used ethernet cable, you will conclude that you wasted money. I cannot imagine that the Beta implementation will please anyone - it is truly offal.
> 
> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


Count to ten. Breethe. 1-2-3.... Think before you post.


----------



## Blitz68

OldRick said:


> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


2 things. This is just Beta and they are trying to get feedback not harsh crticism.

and the other. Go to Comcast if DirecTV is so bad.


----------



## Jeremy W

Hutchinshouse said:


> DOD is far from free!


How much did your monthly bill go up after VOD was added?


----------



## rkreitl

Jeremy W said:


> How much did your monthly bill go up after VOD was added?


Why would anyone's bill go up after a BETA version of VOD was added? I don't understand this talk of VOD not costing customers any extra. In it's current, BETA mode it darn well better not cost anything. But once it's out of BETA I'd guess we'll all see some type of charge associated with VOD.


----------



## Jeremy W

rkreitl said:


> But once it's out of BETA I'd guess we'll all see some type of charge associated with VOD.


You'd guess wrong. Access to VOD will always be free. Most of the content will always be free, as well.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> You'd guess wrong. Access to VOD will always be free. Most of the content will always be free, as well.


Any evidence to support your claim? Anything?


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> Any evidence to support your claim? Anything?


Various statements by DirecTV executives over the past year. I'm not going to go and search for them, so don't even ask.

You also have the fact that no cable company charges for their VOD. The entire reason that DirecTV has added VOD is to compete with cable, so they're not going to ruin that by charging for something that their competitors offer for free universally.


----------



## RAD

harsh said:


> Any evidence to support your claim? Anything?


Anything to say it won't be? Anything? PPV recent movies will have a charge but the vast majority will be free.

Rant, just getting tired of E* folks saying prove something when a D* person says something but the E* folks can pull all sorts of stuff out of their a**'s and we're supposed to take it as fact. JL swears that many of the HD channels on D* are just upconverts because he doesn't see them listed on Lyngsat, but when someone says maybe they're fiber fed he ignores that (find where FBN is on satellite but we know that's not an upconvert). Rant off.


----------



## Jeremy W

RAD said:


> the E* folks can pull all sorts of stuff out of their a**'s and we're supposed to take it as fact.


If it's negative towards DirecTV, it must be true.


----------



## harsh

RAD said:


> Anything to say it won't be? Anything? PPV recent movies will have a charge but the vast majority will be free.


I'm not sure one way or the other and I learned long ago not to try to reason how things would be done.

This claim may end up causing a stir similar to the assurances that the HD Extra pack would be grandfathered for all. On the other hand, if Jeremy W is right, no problem.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> If it's negative towards DirecTV, it must be true.


Nothing is more damaging that something that is proclaimed loudly and authoritatively to be true that turns out not to be.


----------



## rkreitl

Jeremy W said:


> Various statements by DirecTV executives over the past year. I'm not going to go and search for them, so don't even ask.
> 
> You also have the fact that no cable company charges for their VOD. The entire reason that DirecTV has added VOD is to compete with cable, so they're not going to ruin that by charging for something that their competitors offer for free universally.


1) D* executives are well known for making statements that later prove to be false.

2) No cable company charges $$$ up front for leased equipment either. That hasn't stopped D* from adopting the practice.


----------



## Jeremy W

rkreitl said:


> No cable company charges $$$ up front for leased equipment either.


Yes, but Dish does.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Jeremy W said:


> How much did your monthly bill go up after VOD was added?


Same amount as yours did.  I see nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions. Especially when they're dishing out 100+ bucks a month. I recall people expressing their opinion when they were not included in the very first wave of DOD. Why is now any different? When DIRECTV does something right, I have no problems paying a compliment. Same rule applies when something stinks.

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## Jeremy W

Hutchinshouse said:


> I see nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions.


I don't either, unless their opinions are clearly wrong.


----------



## rkreitl

Jeremy W said:


> Yes, but Dish does.


So?

You backed up your claim that D* wouldn't charge for VOD by saying cable doesn't charge. I retorted that cable also doesn't charge an upfront fee for leased equipment. You now come back with the fact that E* does?

My point was I'm figuring there will be some type of charge for VOD once it comes out of BETA. You made the statement:

"You'd guess wrong. Access to VOD will always be free. Most of the content will always be free, as well.".

That's a pretty bold statement when your backup argument is that D* executives said so or that cable doesn't charge for it. But I guess you know all. VOD with D* will always be free. "So say us all". Jeremy knows all.


----------



## Jeremy W

rkreitl said:


> You backed up your claim that D* wouldn't charge for VOD by saying cable doesn't charge. I retorted that cable also doesn't charge an upfront fee for leased equipment. You now come back with the fact that E* does?


If Dish charged for VOD, it would invalidate my point just like Dish charging for receivers invalidates your point.

Feel free to believe whatever you wish, but DirecTV VOD will always be free.


----------



## cypher

VOD is still new, and I'm impressed with with what DirecTV has been able to do so far. Beta's are new and continually being improved. I understand there is always room for improvement, and that will happen I feel.


----------



## man_rob

harsh said:


> Nothing is more damaging that something that is proclaimed loudly and authoritatively to be true that turns out not to be.


Yeah, that's gotta hurt.



harsh said:


> While it has been my contention that MDU is a serious problem, I don't think they're dragging their feet. Like OTA on the x21 series, they just don't have a good solution yet; regardless of the marketing lipservice.


DIRECTV and Thomson Introduce First Satellite Based Multi-Dwelling Unit Triple-Play Technology Platform - DIRECTV MFH3™

DIRECTV MFH3 distribution supports delivery of the full array of DIRECTV content - both standard and high-definition TV plus digital video recorder service; Enables service providers to offer triple-play TV, phone and Internet over single technology platform

Paris (France), September 11, 2007 - DIRECTV, Inc., North America's leading satellite television service provider, and Thomson (Euronext 18453; NYSE: TMS) are launching the first satellite TV distribution system for multi-dwelling units (MDU) to use IP technology for the delivery of TV services. The introduction of the DIRECTV MFH3™ (Multi-Family Housing version 3) distribution system, jointly developed with Thomson, is timed to support DIRECTV's massive expansion of HD services this fall.

http://www.thomson.net/EN/Home/Pres...eleaseID=b43fb29b-e2a0-4cb4-b210-2930872fdf2d


----------



## tooloud10

Jeremy W said:


> If Dish charged for VOD, it would invalidate my point just like Dish charging for receivers invalidates your point.
> 
> Feel free to believe whatever you wish, but DirecTV VOD will always be free.


Say, didn't your grade school teachers ever teach you about the word "always"?


----------



## rrcrosby

jtn said:


> Listen calm down, and relax, put yourself in the shoes of DirecTV, who is trying to please you. Do you think that every human being that makes a mistake should be hanged? Fired? No, we all as human beings are learning every day. Without proper training, and guidance, we will always have the critic who will *never* be satisfied. There is no deliberate attempt by DirecTV to insult, injure, or hurt any customer, if you don't like it, then move on. Quit DirecTV and take on another carrier, it's a free society. :nono2:
> 
> It is a BETA okay.


It is not a free society at Direct TV.

You must pay to stay and pay to leave.​


----------



## harsh

man_rob said:


> DIRECTV and Thomson Introduce First Satellite Based Multi-Dwelling Unit Triple-Play Technology Platform - DIRECTV MFH3™


Ad copy and press releases are excellent examples of marketing rhetoric that needs to be backed up with testimonials from fully functional installations.

I remember trying to do TCP/IP over RG6... I wonder how they plan to do 1000base2.

http://www.directv.com/images/assets/mdu/DIRECTV_MFH3.pdf

Just as subscribers are hesitant to upgrade from their DirectTiVo equipment, so too are the MDU owners hesitant to replace their plant. These solutions require a substantial investment in hardware and SWM capable receivers for everyone, not just those who want the HD service.


----------



## badmonkey

Where did the OP go? I am truly interested in his suggestions for improvement (no sarcasm... I really am). 

While I don't agree with the OP that the current implementation is crap, there is always room for improvement in any product and I was curious to see how the OP would have designed the system.

Like many others, my only major complaint with the current DoD implementation is content (which, admittedly, has nothing to do with implementation).


----------



## jpl

Jeremy W said:


> You also have the fact that no cable company charges for their VOD.


Where did you get that? Pricing structures vary from company to company - even for VOD. For example, from what I understand Comcast charges for network show VOD feeds for NBC. Something like $.99/show. FiOS doesn't. Some services (I forget if this is Cox or Cablevision) charges you extra if you want the VOD for a premium channel - that's on top of the charge you pay for the premium channel. Something like an extra $5/month. Most services don't (they include the VOD in the cost of the channel).

Also many cable companies use VOD as the mechanism for renting movies - the amount that they charge for those movies depends on the service provider.


----------



## Jeremy W

jpl said:


> Where did you get that? Pricing structures vary from company to company - even for VOD.


I am talking about *access* to VOD, not the VOD content itself.


----------



## man_rob

harsh said:


> Ad copy and press releases are excellent examples of marketing rhetoric that needs to be backed up with testimonials from fully functional installations.
> 
> I remember trying to do TCP/IP over RG6... I wonder how they plan to do 1000base2.
> 
> http://www.directv.com/images/assets/mdu/DIRECTV_MFH3.pdf
> 
> Just as subscribers are hesitant to upgrade from their DirectTiVo equipment, so too are the MDU owners hesitant to replace their plant. These solutions require a substantial investment in hardware and SWM capable receivers for everyone, not just those who want the HD service.


Your claim wasn't that building owners were hesitant, it was that Directv didn't have an HD MDU solution for them. You were wrong, and now you are backpedaling, further hurting your credibility here.


----------



## Jeremy W

man_rob said:


> You were wrong, and now you are backpedaling, further hurting your credibility here.


That's very generous of you, implying that he has any credibility here to begin with. :lol:


----------



## cnwilli

mroot said:


> My only real complaint is, if you don't have Showtime or Encore, then it shouldn't show up as something to download. I imagine the reason it's there, is if you see something you like, you'd subcribe to get it.
> 
> Oh, and no HD content.


my opinion exactly. the receiver already knows what you're able to allowed to download. i would also like to know if there is a rough schedule or timeline for when other channels will be offered.


----------



## islesfan

When CIG is fully implemented, will it also not allow me to download DOD from channels I don't get? That would be cool!


----------



## Tom Robertson

Personally, I think the other channels should let you download for a fee or larger fee. Why miss an excellent opportunity to make money and promote your normal offerings? 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## tooloud10

Jeremy W said:


> I am talking about *access* to VOD, not the VOD content itself.


"Oh, VOD doesn't COST anything...unless you want to, you know, actually download some content."


----------



## KurtV

tooloud10 said:


> "Oh, VOD doesn't COST anything...unless you want to, you know, actually download some content."


Much (most?) of the content is free at this time. At least some of it likely always will be.


----------



## bkwest918

If you get the channel then you get the matching VOD channel is the way it seems to be going. Correct me if I'm wrong?

/b


----------



## Jeremy W

bkwest918 said:


> If you get the channel then you get the matching VOD channel is the way it seems to be going. Correct me if I'm wrong?


That's correct.


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## kmill14

Technically, the VOD feature is not FREE. I need a broadband connection, and a way to connect from my "modem" to my DTV box. In my case, it cost me a wireless router hooked up to my box. PPV is FREE with your existing dish and box, and nothing else is required. No broadband, no router, nada.


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## Jeremy W

kmill14 said:


> Technically, the VOD feature is not FREE. I need a broadband connection, and a way to connect from my "modem" to my DTV box.


For me, both of those things were already in my possession, long before VOD (or even the HR20) came into the picture. So the incremental cost for me to get VOD was $0.


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## johnck78

kmill14 said:


> Technically, the VOD feature is not FREE. I need a broadband connection, and a way to connect from my "modem" to my DTV box. In my case, it cost me a wireless router hooked up to my box. PPV is FREE with your existing dish and box, and nothing else is required. No broadband, no router, nada.


With that you could also say that I had to pay for the electricity to run my receiver therefore PPV is NOT free.

I think the point here is that DirecTv is not charging you to access VOD.

With that there will be content for free. That content will coorispond to the channels you are already paying for.

There will also be "premium" content, which may or not also be from channels you are already paying for, in addition to PPV type content.

There will also be PPV for consumers who do not have access to VOD

There is no requirement to have VOD

If you do not like it, simply don't use it.

Content drives everything. Unfortuanatly, since right now during the "BETA" the content is limited, lots of folks have nothing better to do than complain about it.

If tomorrow VOD was full of Full Res HD Content that downloaded at a reasonable rate, it would be the best thing DirecTv could have ever done.

There would be no "The Menus are Ugly" threads, let's fire everybody threads. Instead we would have more "How Do I Get Hooked Up" threads.

I suggest we all take a deep breath and give them some time to get the content there. I have had VOD since the 1st CE, and beleive me, while there is little content now, it is leaps and bounds more than we had just a few weeks ago. The number of channels has almost doubled. There is a lot of content already, however it's all SD. It should do nothing but get better.

JM2C


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## mhayes70

kmill14 said:


> Technically, the VOD feature is not FREE. I need a broadband connection, and a way to connect from my "modem" to my DTV box. In my case, it cost me a wireless router hooked up to my box. PPV is FREE with your existing dish and box, and nothing else is required. No broadband, no router, nada.


Is Directv charging you for it? No. So, then yes it is free. If you don't have broadband or router for high speed internet then you just can't get it.

I would assume that satellite doesn't work to where you can request a show and have it sent to your receiver on demand. So, that is why we need high speed internet to get this feature. Maybe somewhere in the future they will be able to develope the technology to do that.


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## kmill14

"With that you could also say that I had to pay for the electricity to run my receiver therefore PPV is NOT free."

Well, PPV is never free...but the electricity analogy is not exactly accurate. I would venture to guess that for every person using VOD, they have some sort of connection from the HR-20(or similar box) to their broadband connection. Before you had this box, did you have a "free" router or cable sitting there unused? Most posts I have seen on this forum have people stating they went out and bought said router or cable for the VOD feature (and music sharing perhaps). 

As far as content goes, it seems that around 85-90% is from premium channels. Sure, the 15% of "free" content is still "free", but 85% of the content is going to cost me something extra.


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## flipper2006

So your saying, other then these few issues you really like it I presume?



OldRick said:


> I've had VOD for a couple of weeks now, and IMHO, it is the worst job of software design and implementation I've seen in years. IMHO, the Director in charge of this feature set should lose his job for incompetence.
> 
> I'm a guy with decades of experience in software design and implementation - I've got some skills in this area - here are my gripes with the current VOD:
> 
> - Bad concept - that VOD differs from broadcast in some way, on a DVR.
> Unfortunately, DTV chose to implement it as a completely separate way of accessing content, for no apparent reason. Given that DVRs have trained people to watch TV on their own schedule (whether broadcast or not), there is no obvious difference between downloading a show and watching it delayed, and watching a broadcast show delayed.
> IMHO, VOD content should be intermixed with broadcast content in the Guide, and should be signified only by an icon that indicates that it will be downloaded, and not captured from a scheduled broadcast.
> Overall design = C-
> 
> - Content - what's offered so far is completely worthless.
> Rather than repeat the same stuff that they are showing on broadcast in worse video quality, such as 'Spiderman' in ultra-low res, they should be offering content that cannot be had on broadcast TV. An example for me would be the original "Italian Connection" with Michael Caine - it hasn't been broadcast for months or years, but I'd pay to watch it if offered on VOD.
> Long-tail content is the term; stuff that isn't very popular, but adds up to a LOT of revenue over time, as Amazon.com has found.
> There is zero HD content for the only HD DVR that can receive it, and I, for one, would never pay for low-res, over-compressed content.
> I cannot imagine what they were thinking when choosing the current selection of cats and dogs. It certainly had little to do with anything that people would go out of their way to watch.
> Content selection = F
> 
> - The categories of content shown are completely inconsistent and irrational.
> "Movies", "High-Def", and "Interests" do not belong in the same menu. There is no consistency whatever between VOD categories with those in the broadcast search.
> It is simply incredibly stupid design to have two completely separate user interfaces for the same function in the same product, and they both appear to have been designed by Microsoft.
> Categorization of Content = F
> 
> - Searching is nearly impossible, due to incredibly stupid methods of deciding what to show in the results, and how it is displayed.
> For a start, why, on VOD, would you want to display the same movie title 150 times? I find that the same small number of shows repeated usually takes up about 95% of the listings, making it a serious PIA to find what you are looking for. Why would you not show ONE entry for a single show, or, for Series, display folders?
> Even worse is that the marketing idiots have clearly overpowered any attempt at common sense: when you look at search results, 95% will be on channels that you do not receive - you might find a show that you can get every half-dozen page-downs.
> Rather than not showing content you cannot get, or perhaps showing an indicator that you CAN receive a show, the marketing morons chose to slap you in the face with an error message AFTER you choose the show - "Call DTV to find out how you can pay us even more to receive this channel".
> This gets really old the second time you pick an unviewable show, and is infuriating - not the way to please your customers.
> Search Functions = F (it should be even lower, due to the annoyance factor)
> 
> So my advice to anyone considering hooking up their HR20 to the Internet for VOD is that if it costs you more than $.75 for a used ethernet cable, you will conclude that you wasted money. I cannot imagine that the Beta implementation will please anyone - it is truly offal.
> 
> Oh yeah, and when you deliver sloppily-done software to all your customers without their knowledge or consent, you can no longer hide behind the excuse that it's "only a Beta test". This is NOT Beta-test-level code, it's just a really BAD job of production code being rolled out long before it's ready for prime-time.


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## Earl Bonovich

kmill14 said:


> "With that you could also say that I had to pay for the electricity to run my receiver therefore PPV is NOT free."
> 
> Well, PPV is never free...but the electricity analogy is not exactly accurate. I would venture to guess that for every person using VOD, they have some sort of connection from the HR-20(or similar box) to their broadband connection. Before you had this box, did you have a "free" router or cable sitting there unused? Most posts I have seen on this forum have people stating they went out and bought said router or cable for the VOD feature (and music sharing perhaps).
> 
> As far as content goes, it seems that around 85-90% is from premium channels. Sure, the 15% of "free" content is still "free", but 85% of the content is going to cost me something extra.


They way I look at it...

I am paying $60 a month for my Broadband Connection.
And I am now getting more value out of it... as it still costs me $60 regardlesss if I am using DoD or not.


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## tonyd79

kmill14 said:


> As far as content goes, it seems that around 85-90% is from premium channels. Sure, the 15% of "free" content is still "free", but 85% of the content is going to cost me something extra.


Where did you pull these numbers from? There are 43 DOD channels I am seeing right now. Of those, there are 5 (Starz, Encore, TMC, Showtime and Eurocin) that charge or are premium.

Comcast has had VOD for some time and maybe one quarter is premium (HBO, Encore, Starz, Showtime) or PPV (PPV movies). There is a ton of free content.

Same is true with what I have seen of Verizon's system.

Oh, and, yes, I had a router "lying around" (as in using it everyday). All I added was a $25 cable.


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## tooloud10

mhayes70 said:


> Is Directv charging you for it? No. So, then yes it is free.


Really? I think I can get all my shows on DOD, so wouldn't it make sense for me to cancel my television service? Is there any reason to not just download them?


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## tooloud10

tonyd79 said:


> Oh, and, yes, I had a router "lying around" (as in using it everyday). All I added was a $25 cable.


Ouch! I can't imagine what kind of Ethernet cable cost you $25.


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## Guest

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for the content: This shouldn't not even be really a debate right now, as it is a beta phase, service has been out there for only about 2 months... and the library is only going to grow over time.... You have to start somewhere.


...and a good place to start would be some HD content.


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## sunking

mhayes70 said:


> Is Directv charging you for it? No. So, then yes it is free. If you don't have broadband or router for high speed internet then you just can't get it.
> 
> I would assume that satellite doesn't work to where you can request a show and have it sent to your receiver on demand. So, that is why we need high speed internet to get this feature. Maybe somewhere in the future they will be able to develope the technology to do that.


Wow, I wish I were like you and never got a bill from Directv. I must also be the only one that has had their bill increase over time. Everyone is paying for it. In fact, anyone who does not have an HR20 should be rather ticked off that they are subsidizing every month a service they can't even utilize.

The only reason they don't line item the charge is that they know there are some serious limitations and the quality of service varies way to much. If you don't think that at some point the costs of DoD for Directv wasn't considered when overall price increases were being decided you are nuts. DoD increases Directvs operating costs, so you are going to pay for it.

At least spending money on new satellites and increased HD has the benefit of attracting new customers and increasing ebit, hopefully more so than the sats cost. The number of people who will ditch cable because of DoD is not even worth counting.

Now DoD does have an impact on customer retention. Without the feature at all, some people would leave and go back to cable. That's the real gamble. Turnover is a killer in this industry.


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## Wisegoat

sunking said:


> Everyone is paying for it. In fact, anyone who does not have an HR20 should be rather ticked off that they are subsidizing every month a service they can't even utilize.


By that rationale, I should be majorly pissed at all the money DirecTV spends on Center Ice, Full Court, etc. I do not utilize that service, yet I am subsidizing it. Same with the Active Channels, Game Channels, etc.

Taking it a step further, I should be mad at my government for spending money on Senior Citizen centers and foreign wars for which I did not vote.

Bottom line is that we all subsidize things we do not get any benefit of. I pay for things you want and I don't. You pay for things I want and you don't. That is how this all balances itself out.


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## sunking

Wisegoat said:


> By that rationale, I should be majorly pissed at all the money DirecTV spends on Center Ice, Full Court, etc. I do not utilize that service, yet I am subsidizing it. Same with the Active Channels, Game Channels, etc.
> 
> Taking it a step further, I should be mad at my government for spending money on Senior Citizen centers and foreign wars for which I did not vote.
> 
> Bottom line is that we all subsidize things we do not get any benefit of. I pay for things you want and I don't. You pay for things I want and you don't. That is how this all balances itself out.


Nope, you miss the point. You pay for and receive yet choose not to watch those channels. That's your choice. Everyone that doesn't have an hr-20 is currently paying for a service that is impossible for them to use.


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## skyviewmark1

Are there any dealers out here that have gotten this working on a showroom unit. I know it's still beta but it has gone national. I have the network connection to my HR20-700 and have had the DOD menu listed since a CE a while back.. But still haven't been able to actually see it work.. Seems to me DirecTV would activate it for the dealers so we could preview it, and possibly use it for a selling point to customers..


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## kmill14

tonyd79 said:


> Where did you pull these numbers from? There are 43 DOD channels I am seeing right now. Of those, there are 5 (Starz, Encore, TMC, Showtime and Eurocin) that charge or are premium.
> 
> Comcast has had VOD for some time and maybe one quarter is premium (HBO, Encore, Starz, Showtime) or PPV (PPV movies). There is a ton of free content.
> 
> Same is true with what I have seen of Verizon's system.
> 
> Oh, and, yes, I had a router "lying around" (as in using it everyday). All I added was a $25 cable.


Well, I looked at the list of movies, and eyeballed it to around 85% of all the movies are from premium channels. Correct me if I am wrong, but for now, if I want to watch a movie that isn't 20+ years old, its probably on a premium channel which I don't pay for.


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## Jeremy W

kmill14 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but for now, if I want to watch a movie that isn't 20+ years old, its probably on a premium channel which I don't pay for.


All of the current PPV movies are available as well, for a fee though.


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## OneOfOne

Ryanm86 said:


> Some day I think Earl is going to whip out an oozie and take us all out.


if he whips out an 'oozie' its going to be a porn film. if he whips out an uzi he will get a job at the post office.


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## OneOfOne

kmill14 said:


> Technically, the VOD feature is not FREE. I need a broadband connection, and a way to connect from my "modem" to my DTV box. In my case, it cost me a wireless router hooked up to my box. PPV is FREE with your existing dish and box, and nothing else is required. No broadband, no router, nada.


since you dont get ppv without paying for it how is it possibly free? access to it costs money no matter how you scheme it. its not free.


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