# HDMI vs. Component - picture quality issues



## BlueOrbit (Feb 8, 2006)

I have the 622 connected to both HDMI and Component inputs and I am noticing that Component offers a significantly better picture quality. Specifically the blacks are much blacker with Component. I am using a 50" Professional Panasonic Plasma and the monitor is well calibrated on both inputs.

Is anyone else experiencing the same issue? Is there a solution to this?

Thanks for any input...


----------



## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

But do you notice more artifacts in the back ground when You use the component? The hdmi is supposed to remain full digital without any transition to analog which produces artifacts. I think they could do some software updates that would fix the brightness factor on the hdmi. I notice that my Local hd Abc is a little brighter than it should be and I am using hdmi.


----------



## BlueOrbit (Feb 8, 2006)

No, I don't see any artifacts when using Component. The only issue is that HDMI looks washed out when compared to Component. I did a search on this forum and found other people complaining about this issue.

I realize that HDMI is all digital and in theory should produce a better picture than Component, but this is just not the case on my 622.

Hope Dish can fix this soon... anyone else running into this?


----------



## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

BlueOrbit said:


> No, I don't see any artifacts when using Component. The only issue is that HDMI looks washed out when compared to Component. I did a search on this forum and found other people complaining about this issue.
> 
> I realize that HDMI is all digital and in theory should produce a better picture than Component, but this is just not the case on my 622.
> 
> Hope Dish can fix this soon... anyone else running into this?


Dish is not very cooperative with this problem. I suggest that you take photos of the problems and email them to Dish. Is your "washed out" problem the same as over compression?


----------



## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

BlueOrbit said:


> No, I don't see any artifacts when using Component. The only issue is that HDMI looks washed out when compared to Component. I did a search on this forum and found other people complaining about this issue.
> 
> I realize that HDMI is all digital and in theory should produce a better picture than Component, but this is just not the case on my 622.
> 
> Hope Dish can fix this soon... anyone else running into this?


I find exactly the opposite is true with mine. I find the component looks more washed out than the HDMI input. The difference is, I have a DLP set and you have a plasma.


----------



## jimpm (Nov 3, 2004)

My component picture qualiy connection is significantly better than my HDMI connection.

I received my 622 receiver about 1-1/2 week ago. I had to use my component
cables until I could get a HDMI-DVI cable to go from the 622 to my Samsung 50" DLP
TV. When I hooked up the HDMI cable, several people noticed that the
component connection was much sharper with brigher-appearing colors.

Maybe, the next software upgrade will improve the HDMI signal. 

Regardless of what the "techies" say, I'm staying with the better picture quality.

Jim


----------



## jimpm (Nov 3, 2004)

I just wanted to add interestingly, the picture quality on m 921
to the same DLP TV was much better on the DVI-DVI cable compared
to the component cables. 

One must compare apples to apples, whenever possible, and remove
as many variable to determine what is really happening when changes
are made.


----------



## BlueOrbit (Feb 8, 2006)

Steve H said:


> Dish is not very cooperative with this problem. I suggest that you take photos of the problems and email them to Dish. Is your "washed out" problem the same as over compression?


I don't believe that this is a compression-related issue. If this was the case the compression related problems would also be visible on Component output as I am pretty sure the recieve de-compresses the SAT video signal only once before it gets sent out to HDMI, Component or S-video. Of course proper scaling / de-interlacing takes place, but no further compression/de-compression should occur.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Most people don't understand what they should be seeing as a difference in PQ between the various flavors of component video which both HDMI, DVI and Y, Pr, Pb analog are a subset. It certainly is NOT black level or color accuracy as these things can be adjusted with calibration of the monitor regardless of the signal interconnect and encoding. It is also possible that color accuracy and black levels may be incorrect at the source of the program. But it should never be different between various flavors of the component signal on the same program whether it is HDMI or Y.Pr,Pb. Since this is so, a statement that your monitor is not at fault because it has been calibrated is essentially an oxymoron if yoiu do see a difference. 
Here is what one should see in a very high quality monitor, one that is designed to visualize even the most minute detail in the picture. (Sorry, but I know of no plasma that fits this requirement) If you look at the pixel border up close you may detect a degree of multiple outlines like ghosts, especially in areas where the image has high contrast. In the Y, Pr, Pb image these artifacts are more pronounced and easily seen. As you go up the quality of component video to, say RGBHV where the signal is transferred by 5 cables and there was no encoding of the RGB with sync signals, the artifacting will begin to disappear. In a pure DVI or HDMI, where the image has never been converted to analog and was originally in digital those edge artifacts will be gone completely. However, if that program was at one point in time converted to analog, then back to digital before you got it, even the DVI or HDMI signal could be contaminated with analog video artifacts that have piggybacked along for the rest of the way. You will have no control over this but one thing is certain, operating your equipment in an all digital mode will insure that YOU are not introducing these artifacts into your program. 

OK having said that, what may be still a fly in the soup is that using an image display device that really can't display these artifacts anyway may make it irrelevant and what is more critical in using these displays is not the component analog artifact byt rather the overall image quality you are seeing. If your display is NOT producing the properly calibrated blacks and the display imaging is not the right balance of color while your analog inputs do produce good results, it is not worthwhile to have the hdmi calibrated for PQ purposes. This is why HDMI is only better in theory for interconnecting your video signals. In many monitors, those with lower pixel depth, HDMI may be the same visually as component analog assuming both are indeed at calibration standards.


----------



## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

I plugged in both an HDMI to DVI cable and a Component cable and switched back and forth. On my TV, the HDMI did appear lighter and the component had deeper blacks. That said, I could actually see detail in the darker areas of the image on HDMI, wheras all the detail was lost to the black in the component. 

So my vote ended up being with the HDMI, even though it was slightly washed out looking. Here's hoping they fix that.


----------



## dude2 (May 28, 2006)

Here is how I checked my tv for component vs hdmi. First of all I have the HDnet video test signals on the hard drive. I go to them and then the last chart the screen resolution chart.
I pause the hard drive, and then connent componet cables to tv and the hdmi cable.
Using the message on the left side of the screen you can find out how well your sharpness is by how far down the screen you can keep reading until the letters get too small to read.
I saw no difference on this part of the test by switching between hdmi and cvi inputs on the tv.
Next I checked the colorbars on the bottom of the screen as I have the avia test cd and have set my screen for black below black and black above black. Both inputs did a super job on this, which is a great test for contrast settings. You use both the briteness control and the picture (or contrast control) to set this level.
I did find a slight difference in favor of the hdmi in the vertical resolution chart and I could see clearly down to 1080 i on hdmi and a little blury around 1080i on component.
Because of this I use hdmi, and also my sony dvd recorder only has component video out and not hdmi to the tv so the dvd gets the cvi input.
Dave.


----------



## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

I paused a SD show and an HD show on the receivers, and switched between inputs. I could tell no difference between DVI and component on my 942, but on my 622, there is no comparison: DVI is much brighter, sharper, and more vivid than component.


----------



## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

I would love to use my hdmi - dvi connection, but unfortunately my tv only allows me to adjust brightness and contrast while using this input. With the component, I am also able to adjust my sharpness and saturation, which is where the big difference is. With the hdmi the picture looks less saturated. So I use component and up sharpness and saturation a little, making for a better picture. Anyone else have a tv that minimizes calibration options while using a dvi input?


----------



## DeCleaner (Nov 9, 2004)

dude2 said:


> First of all I have the HDnet video test signals on the hard drive.


When do they broadcast the signals...I'd love to record them myself!


----------



## zdman (May 26, 2006)

I will have to give this a try on my Sony and see how they compare. The difference you are seeing may be due to the 622, however it could also be the TV. For example, when I had the comcast HD box some time back, I tried both and and saw no difference on my tv. I searched through some posts and found that if you look at the schematics of my tv (sony grand wega) that they immedately conviert the HDMI to component inside the set. So going hdmi may buy you little or nothing for short cable runs.
Everyone gets hung up on this "digital" being better thing and I am not always sure this is the case. I suspect design of TV and whatever componenet you have can make a difference (especially with short component video runs using a decent cable). One device might be designed a little better on the hdmi side while the other might be designed a little better on the component side.


----------



## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Ive think that overall COMPONENT is better, dont get me wrong, as far as HD the HDMI looks better, but when watching non HD channels the component is better, the channels look blurred with HDMI, I like the COMPONENT better because I can get 480i, so for me Ill stick with component.


----------



## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

There are a lot of variables to consider when comparing component to HDMI. First, many sets have independent calibration settings for the different inputs (such as my Sony). Unless both are properly calibrated against a standard, you won't know if it's the TV or the 622.

Next, it also depends upon where in the signal processing chain the HDMI is processed vs component. The analog component signal is digitized for image processing, so unless the A/D's are good enough (which most are), you might find that HDMI is better.

Some sets actually convert the incoming HDMI back to analogand then handle it like a component signal, although this is very rare these days. It was mostly a way to add HDMI support without redesigning an existing component signal chain.

One other thing to check: the NTSC colorspace isn't the same as the ATSC HD colorspace, so if your component inputs were calibated against an NTSC color chart, they won't match the HDMI color calibrations.

Finally, there's always a subjective component.

This is why everyone seems to have different opinions about the appearance of the two.


----------



## dude2 (May 28, 2006)

DeCleaner said:


> When do they broadcast the signals...I'd love to record them myself!


Check your HDnet schedule. When it is on it is usuall about 10 minutes before 6 in the morning. 
This coming tuesday at 5:50 Am is the next scheduled broadcast of the test patterns.1st you will get color, bars and then cross hatch to check your convergence and then the good one the resolution etc pattern.
There is allot to use in that screen and it takes looking at it all for afew times to really understand what you are looking at and how you can use.

Tue at 5:50 AM on HD Net


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

motts said:


> I would love to use my hdmi - dvi connection, but unfortunately my tv only allows me to adjust brightness and contrast while using this input. With the component, I am also able to adjust my sharpness and saturation, which is where the big difference is. With the hdmi the picture looks less saturated. So I use component and up sharpness and saturation a little, making for a better picture. Anyone else have a tv that minimizes calibration options while using a dvi input?


motts- You post a good example of what I stated above. It should be noted that both component analog and DVI / HDMI is capable of having all parts of the video signal adjusted. Many monitors just do not permit this adjustment with digital for the user! However, if you obtained access to the service setups you may find far more adjustments than you ever heard of for calibration of the digital signal color parameters. There was a time that my first TV-3 Dwin did not permit color saturation and balance for the user ( only by accessing the service setup menu) but an upgrade to the system software brought some of these to the user level. However, in the service setup mode we have 9 levels of adjustments for the red green and blue components of the DVI signals that included among other things gamma curves as well. Few people would know what to do with gamma curves in their set so the manufacturers may by choice decide to restrict these and other adjustments for the service technician. 
The bottom line is you watch what looks best to YOU on YOUR equipment. But don't assume you have a full understanding of what the technology offers just because you see what your equipment allows you to see. To fully understand you have to recognize what the technology defines and then judge if your equipment accurately offers that technology for you to use. In the case of a factory calibrated Dwin with no DVI adjustments you had to use a matte white screen to achieve the best picture with DVI signals but if you used a Grayhawk screen the image looked shifted blue. With Component analog you could adjust the color shift to compensate but not with DVI, unless you accessed the gamma curves for each color component in the service setups. The latest version of Dwin's projector now allows some but not all color balance correction for the user so shifting to a different than factory standard matte white screen is now adjustable for the user.


----------



## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

DonLandis said:


> motts- You post a good example of what I stated above. It should be noted that both component analog and DVI / HDMI is capable of having all parts of the video signal adjusted. Many monitors just do not permit this adjustment with digital for the user! However, if you obtained access to the service setups you may find far more adjustments than you ever heard of for calibration of the digital signal color parameters. There was a time that my first TV-3 Dwin did not permit color saturation and balance for the user ( only by accessing the service setup menu) but an upgrade to the system software brought some of these to the user level. However, in the service setup mode we have 9 levels of adjustments for the red green and blue components of the DVI signals that included among other things gamma curves as well. Few people would know what to do with gamma curves in their set so the manufacturers may by choice decide to restrict these and other adjustments for the service technician.
> The bottom line is you watch what looks best to YOU on YOUR equipment. But don't assume you have a full understanding of what the technology offers just because you see what your equipment allows you to see. To fully understand you have to recognize what the technology defines and then judge if your equipment accurately offers that technology for you to use. In the case of a factory calibrated Dwin with no DVI adjustments you had to use a matte white screen to achieve the best picture with DVI signals but if you used a Grayhawk screen the image looked shifted blue. With Component analog you could adjust the color shift to compensate but not with DVI, unless you accessed the gamma curves for each color component in the service setups. The latest version of Dwin's projector now allows some but not all color balance correction for the user so shifting to a different than factory standard matte white screen is now adjustable for the user.


So I am pretty much stuck using component unless somehow I gain access to the service menu of my television?If this menu is only accessible if the manufacturer allows it to be with a software update, then I will probable never see it. There must be a way to access it without the need for software updates from the manufacturer. Is there?


----------



## Matthewmon (Jun 8, 2006)

if you have the 622 connected to both HDMI and Component inputs how do you switch between the two? i am a noob. my HD channels look awesome but non HD channels don't look very good at all, looked much better on my old regular tv i had before i got the plasma and Dish Network. thanks for the help!


----------



## dude2 (May 28, 2006)

Matthewmon said:


> if you have the 622 connected to both HDMI and Component inputs how do you switch between the two? i am a noob. my HD channels look awesome but non HD channels don't look very good at all, looked much better on my old regular tv i had before i got the plasma and Dish Network. thanks for the help!


Join the crowd. I think we all dislike the sd picture quality. Not sure if it the super sharp of hd and then to look at sd it is a disapointment.
The thing I do not understand is why do dvds still look better on componet in than payperview movies look in hdmi input. Dish must have done something to the sd channels as with my old 4x3 tv the pay per view looked just as good as dvd but no more.
I just visited a large store with about every type of large screen there is on display and not a single one of the looked good on sd. The worst was a 65 inch sony lcd set which was down right blury on the same channel and input as the rest. What is going on is it the new compression.
I emailed dishquality and asked and did not get an answer.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Its not just compression its a combination of all these things. They all refer to progress!

Keep in mind SD was designed to be shown on TV sets typical were 19" to 25" color sets. Then progress gave us the 30" set. SD programs began to get fuzzy. More progress and we have those big CRT's at up to 60" sets. Gosh the line separation was awful so progress gives us the scaler or line doubler so we can double up the scan lines but the original resolution remains the same its just that the image is filled in so the lines aren't as visible. The image is not as sharp though because it is still the same, ju8st spread bigger. More progress brings us digital where the same SD resolution we only saw designed for the 19" TV is now converted to digital and distributed by pixel level so while the scan lines are gone, we now have the same resolution distributed over many pixels. The image gets softer yet with all this processing. 

While many will recognize the 480i number for SD TV few understand that number is a calculated translated number that doesn't represent the true resolution of SD TV. While SD is 525 horizontal scan lines with 486 visible, the truth is the image is only about half that in resolution detail. SD TV resolution is actually only 200 - 250 lines of resolution, Spread that on the big screen with translation to digital and you just can't spread that low res to the big screen with DVD quality that is down rezed to 720x480 pixels from a film that was shot in the thousands of lines of resolution. Watch the SD program on a screen size it was originally designed for, a CRT with 19 to 25" screens and it still looks great by SD standards! 

While I agree that the old debate of SD looking awful on the new big screens can be caused by all of the factors in play, I thouight I'd offer some perspective on the history of SD broadcasts / SD TV and why it looks so bad on the latest technology designed for modern digital video that is down converted from film or HD video.


----------



## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

dude2 said:


> Join the crowd. I think we all dislike the sd picture quality. Not sure if it the super sharp of hd and then to look at sd it is a disapointment.


I just got my 622 - upgraded from a 510. I hooked up the s-video, component and hdmi (all straight to the tv inputs) so that I could compare the sd picture both with all three inputs - the s-video is definitely sharper than either the component or the hdmi. Unfortunately, the color is also extremely saturated as I cannot adjust my Sony 36" inputs separately and had to bump up the color quite a bit to eliminate the washed out look of both the component and hdmi inputs so I cannot use the s-video to view the sd.


----------



## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

motts said:


> So I am pretty much stuck using component unless somehow I gain access to the service menu of my television?If this menu is only accessible if the manufacturer allows it to be with a software update, then I will probable never see it. There must be a way to access it without the need for software updates from the manufacturer. Is there?


Yes. The service people get into the TV to make the adjustments for calibration, etc. You just need to know the code that they use to get in.

I got into the service panel of my samsung dlp, and it made a HUGE difference with my dvi/hdmi input (via 921, not 622 specifically.)

I'd recommend that you go over to www.avsforum.com and ask those gentlemen if they know the service code needed to get into your particular TV. Before doing anything, write down the current settings so that you can go back in case things go wonky.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Probably you'll want the Rear Projection Units forum, but you didn't say what your TV is.


----------



## SandiaMan (Aug 14, 2006)

I just my 622 a few days ago and today I connected a cheaper HDMI cable that came free with a Toshiba DVD player. I noticed playing back the same Food Network logo text that there is a slight pixelation on the edge of the smaller text with the HDMI and it does NOT appear with the component cables. I have the HDMI running to a JVC Dila HDTV. Any comments on what is happenning???


----------



## dirtydan (Dec 15, 2004)

SandiaMan said:


> I just my 622 a few days ago and today I connected a cheaper HDMI cable that came free with a Toshiba DVD player. I noticed playing back the same Food Network logo text that there is a slight pixelation on the edge of the smaller text with the HDMI and it does NOT appear with the component cables. I have the HDMI running to a JVC Dila HDTV. Any comments on what is happenning???


I just checked mine and either connection seems just fine to me, up close or back 9'. The HDMI cable should be ok as they either work or don't when using short runs. What you could try is adjustments on your Panel, especially the Sharpness, that should be set way down.


----------



## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

It's quite likely that your TV is doing different processing on the digital HDMI input as compared to the analog component inputs. As such, it's very possible to get a somewhat difference appearance between different inputs (particularly if the user settings are per-input, compounding the differences).

There's nothing wrong with your cable.


----------



## mrterryc (Apr 19, 2006)

I have a Dell 37" LCD TV and my DVD player's picture quality is virtually equivalent from both component and HDMI output. I have two usable HDMI input ports and two component video input ports. No matter whether I switch cables that were in the DVD player to the 622, my HDMI output from the 622 is more "washed out" than from component output. My TV is obviously able to handle HDMI input in either port when receiving data from the DVD player. No matter which port I use, the output from the 622 is "washed out" by comparison. So I have difficulty believing I have a problem with my TV or my cables. The only variable seems to be the quality or type of signal coming from the 622, and the component output is spectacularly good compared to the HDMI output. The picture quality is SO GOOD, in fact, I wouldn't think of making changes to the "personal" settings on my TV. My HDMI output port on the 622 works. The picture quality is just terrible compared to the component output. IS this a potential software fix?

I know this is not a new issue. I just haven't read anywhere HOW this can be fixed by software in the 622. Since the picture quality is more than acceptable from the component output, making HDMI work equivalently or better is, to me, more academic than important.


----------



## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

SandiaMan said:


> I just my 622 a few days ago and today I connected a cheaper HDMI cable that came free with a Toshiba DVD player. I noticed playing back the same Food Network logo text that there is a slight pixelation on the edge of the smaller text with the HDMI and it does NOT appear with the component cables. I have the HDMI running to a JVC Dila HDTV. Any comments on what is happenning???


Checking your sharpness settings is a good idea. Probably all calibrations (get a program like video essentials).

Could also have to do with the digital scalers. Try different resolutions from the 622 (try both 720 and 1080 - your TV may do a better job of scaling).

Component is analog and must be first converted to digital by the TV (the Analog-2-Digital converters may have some filtering that's taking care of the edge effects your seeing).

In any case, I doubt it's the cable. It's digital. Generally all or nothing. Sometimes "sparklies" if the connection is marginal. Unless your running 20+ feet I don't think a "High Quality" cable is needed.


----------

