# Two DVRs reboot almost daily



## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

I have a very odd situation where two DVRs are rebooting periodically during the day and evening. I have only caught them rebooting in the act twice but the blue circle is something I turn off and then you know the drill, it comes on after a reboot.

Here is my situation and what I have tried to date...

HR21 and HR23 DVRs both with 0x59f software (problems seem to start since the update but can't point a finger at it with 100% certainty).

HR21 located in living room, on an APC UPS. Shares same power with an HR24 which is on a different software version and doesn't have a single problem.

The HR 23 is located in my bed room, on an APC UPS. 

I'm using SWM.

Neither DVR reboots at the same time as the other one.

I tested the UPS power by unplugging them and letting them run powering the DVRs for approx 10 minutes without issue and plugged them back in.

I plugged one DVR directly into the wall, it rebooted during the day. I believe I have ruled out input power to the DVRs as a possible problem.

I originally had the HR21 connected via component cables and it was rebooting then so HDMI interface is ruled out for at least the HR21 but I suspect both DVRs HDMI handshaking is fine as they worked fine about 3 weeks before. Yes, I've been troubleshooting this for three weeks now.

I have cleared the program guide data, no help.

All connections of course have been verified.

I disconnected everything but the power cord and coax input, still reboots.

I do not think I have two failed DVRs or two failed UPS.

All satellite signal levels are 80 or above (mostly in the 95-100 area on a clear day) for all relevant transducers.

I have all the DVRs connected with a ethernet cable. Again, I did disconnect it in a previous test to ensure something there wasn't causing the problem.

As I mentioned before, I have an HR24 as well and it doesn't have a single problem.

What I haven't done:
1) Not performed a full blown reset to factory (delete all programs)
2) Erase NVRAM (found a procedure but don't know what it will do)
3) Replaced the Dish antenna
4) Replace the SWM splitter and power inserter (I could check the power inserter voltage and see if there was any ripple)
5) Beat it with a hammer (feel like it at times)

Right now I'm not sure where to go. I contacted DirecTv, they wrote it up, said they don't have a notice on anything like this problem, tried to sell me a package deal for repair (not opposed to paying for the repair). My only issues with getting a service rep out to my house is, what would they do to verify the problem is fixed? I doubt they will replace both DVRs, not that I really want that either, got a few things on there to watch. And I hate loosing almost an entire day waiting around for an appointment.

Last thing, I haven't found out anything about the 0x59f firmware. I see a few people stating they got it, nothing about what "changed". I still feel like it's the firmware.

Whatever the problem, I got to get rid of it.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

The UPS all but rules out dirty power, but either or both could have a bad PS or a bad HDD. The UPS only protects the AC coming from the wall; it has no affect on the DC put out by the internal power supply.

You can check the PS visually (if you can get the lid off), and if you see bulging, leaking, or domed large filter capacitors (there are probably 2 large ones, half a dozen other smaller electrolytics) there's your smoking gun. This can be a natural aging failure of PS's, but even a new PS is vulnerable to a "brown up" or extended power surge, and that could explain why both presented with this issue at about the same time. Unlikely with UPS protection, however.

But before you go that far (and as tempting as #5 sounds) I would try the 2-4-6-8 trick (search this forum) which will force a new download of the OS. It almost sounds as if you got a bad download, since both started doing this at the same time and shortly thereafter. Maybe you had an "airplane fade" at a critical moment in the download.

2, 3, and 4 seem unlikely to be helpful. If no ripple, I can't see how any of these could contribute to the problem.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

@TomCat,
I eventually locate the instructions, well kind of.

I rebooted via the red button, entered 02468 on the remote once the blue screen popped up, and after seveal attempt got the software downloading screen. For anyone reading this, if your DVR hits' "Checking Receiver", try again.

Hopefully this will fix it, I'm downloading on both DVRs right now and will post if it works.

Yea, I doubt it's the internal power supplies, I think I'd have more issues and the fact that both DVRs started about the same time (as for how litle I pay attention to things).

Thanks,
Joe


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Generally redownloading isn't going to fix a problem like that. I would try redoing your satellite setup. Very rarely, this becomes corrupt and can cause the DVR to think it has the wrong kind of dish. With the wrong information, it sometimes reboots because of the excessive number of errors. 

It's a long shot but it's worth a try.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

The software download did not correct the problem.

I went ahead and reconfigured the antenna and the only thing I could possibly change was the single or dual tuners. I left it as dual tuners. It was configured as a Slimline-35(SWM). I tested the settings and received a failure for the 103 (13V) section, all the other 5 passed. I'm not certain this is a concern as I also tested my HR24 and the same thing occurred.

Looking at the signal levels, here is what I have and I believe them to be correct for my location but if something looks wrong please let me know.

101 All 97 to 100.
99(c) All 89 to 98.

99(s)
1-8: 96, 0, 90, 0, 94, 67, N/A, N/A
9-16: N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, 97, 41
17-24: 30, 40, 0, 43, 85, 84, 95, 95

103(s) 
1-8: 0, 0, 0, 54, 0, 0, N/A, N/A
9-16: N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, 92, 92
17-24: 0, 0, 96, 95, 28, 0, 63, 89

103(ca) All 80 to 86.
103(cb) All 90 or 95.
SWM 100, 97, 100, 100, 0, 0, 0, 0 and 97.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

If multiple HD DVRs are rebooting on their own...it would seem that the problem rests in something they both have in common.

That narrows the search to the Dish, SWM, or cables to these 2 devices.

Based on your latest readings in the previous post...it seems that while a few of the signal levels are less than optimum...things _should_ work at this point.

I would look to check the connectors themselves (their condition) and connections (tight/not tight) on the cables between the HD DVRs and the SWM. The splitter could be suspect too. If all that is in order...try one more reboot on the two units.

If the problems remain...it sounds like you might need a service call to have things checked out.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

One thing I didn't post here is that the DVRs seem to reboot at a certain time of day, each is different.

The HR23 appears to reboot between 11 PM and 3 AM. This occurs almost every night but has skipped a night periodically.

The HR21 (shares same power source as my HR24) appears to reboot between 3:00 AM and 7:00 AM. I caught this one rebooting at 6:30 AM one morning.

The the best of my knowledge, neither DVRs have ever rebooted between the hours of 3 PM and 11 PM. (Use the blue circle as my tattle tale, and I change the order of my playlist to A-Z, wish that would stick between reboots)

My first thought is the UPS is running a self test but that is not the case, unfortunately. Also if that were the case, why now and at the same times. But I ruled that out by plugging the DVRs directly into the wall and they rebooted in the middle of the night.

I will check my coax connections but I did use a small wrench to snug each connection down. I didn't make the connection to the antenna as that is on the roof and my roof is not for the faint of heart. Very high and steep pitch. I'd like the thing moved to ground level now that the trees behind my house have been removed. I could then clean the snow and ice off during the mild winter.

All cables are RG6. Of the hardware suggested I'd say it has to be the SWM splitter, power inserter, or antenna. The only other thing it could be is the software which is what I'm honestly leaning towards only because the HR24 works and I don't understand how a poor, corrupt, spiking, or any other possibly of signal malfunction would cause a system to reboot, especially only during a certain window of time?

I will also swap the coax connections at the SWM splitter between the HR24 and HR21 so I have something "good" connected to the HR21. I'll move the HR23 to a different connection.

Will report back with the results, good or bad.

-Mark


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

You might try temporarily putting one of the DVR's on another outlet, which is on a different circuit breaker. Possibly using on a long extension cord, if you have one. Maybe there is too much on that UPS or on that line and this might help you at rule out a one possible cause.

Your situation may be different then mine, but one of my HR22's started rebooting almost every day when the second release of the HD GUI downloaded. And then it started missing recordings. When it got worse, I had to RBR just to get it working. All diagnostic tests that I ran and then a "technical" csr had me run again, showed it was fine, but it wasn't. I replaced it with an HR34 and its been working good ever since (Had some bugs on the SD GUI, but most seem resolved on the HD GUI). I only mention this, because it appears that sometimes the diagnostics don't reveal an issue.

Although, in addition to replacing the HR22 with the HR34, they did replace the splitter and SWiM LNB with ones that had green labels. When SWiM was first released, I had convinced the original installer to give me a SWiM setup, despite it not being on the order ( So maybe they didn't have the green labels back then). DIRECTV always showed that I didn't have SWiM. So despite me explaining that to them, they still ordered a replacement. I figured, why not get newer hardware.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> You might try temporarily putting one of the DVR's on another outlet, which is on a different circuit breaker. Possibly using on a long extension cord, if you have one. Maybe there is too much on that UPS or on that line and this might help you at rule out a one possible cause.
> 
> Your situation may be different then mine, but one of my HR22's started rebooting almost every day when the second release of the HD GUI downloaded. And then it started missing recordings. When it got worse, I had to RBR just to get it working. All diagnostic tests that I ran and then a "technical" csr had me run again, showed it was fine, but it wasn't. I replaced it with an HR34 and its been working good ever since (Had some bugs on the SD GUI, but most seem resolved on the HD GUI). I only mention this, because it appears that sometimes the diagnostics don't reveal an issue.
> 
> Although, in addition to replacing the HR22 with the HR34, they did replace the splitter and SWiM LNB with ones that had green labels. When SWiM was first released, I had convinced the original installer to give me a SWiM setup, despite it not being on the order ( So maybe they didn't have the green labels back then). DIRECTV always showed that I didn't have SWiM. So despite me explaining that to them, they still ordered a replacement. I figured, why not get newer hardware.


When you replaced the the HR22 with the HR34, was that at full cost to yourself? Was your HR22 very old? Flipping $400.00 for another DVR seems a bit extreme and although if I were single I would probably do it, my wife on the other hand would snap my neck without a very good reason to spend that kind of money. The HR21 and HR23 were not cheap. I've already had the hard drive on the HR21 once last year, Weaknees I think it was.

As for your suggestions... The bedroom and living room DVRs are on different CB's. Different APC UPS as well. The bedroom DVR is the only thing plugged into the UPS battery backed side. It should run for over 40 minutes without input power. I did unplug the UPS and let it run for 10 minutes and the DVR never stopped running.

So far I haven't lost any recordings, and I typically don't record anything in the middle of the night but there are programs that could. I haven't seen any partial recordings yet. Currently this is an annoyance issue but I'm concerned there is more to it and for what I've paid and am paying, it should work properly.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Joe Schmuck said:


> When you replaced the the HR22 with the HR34, was that at full cost to yourself? Was your HR22 very old? Flipping $400.00 for another DVR seems a bit extreme and although if I were single I would probably do it, my wife on the other hand would snap my neck without a very good reason to spend that kind of money. The HR21 and HR23 were not cheap. I've already had the hard drive on the HR21 once last year, Weaknees I think it was.
> 
> As for your suggestions... The bedroom and living room DVRs are on different CB's. Different APC UPS as well. The bedroom DVR is the only thing plugged into the UPS battery backed side. It should run for over 40 minutes without input power. I did unplug the UPS and let it run for 10 minutes and the DVR never stopped running.
> 
> So far I haven't lost any recordings, and I typically don't record anything in the middle of the night but there are programs that could. I haven't seen any partial recordings yet. Currently this is an annoyance issue but I'm concerned there is more to it and for what I've paid and am paying, it should work properly.


Missed the part having separate UPS's, so you may have another issue. Like hdtvfan0001 mentioned, it could be the splitter, connections, etc, that was the problem. When my HR34 was installed, they did replace the LNB and splitter. Although my second HR22 was on the same LNB and splitter and worked fine.

If it gets worse and you want an HR34 cheaper, you have to ask. I didn't pay $400, it was actually free. When I first had issues with my 3 yr old HR22, I talked to a "technical" CSR. They wanted to send someone out to troubleshoot and charge for it. I wanted her to simply send an equal replacement. She refused, so I called retention, explained the situation and mentioned I would like an the HR34. He said if that would I would like, he would give it to me at no charge. I just had to resign a 2 yr commitment.

A little background on my situation. I was out of contract and already had an offer on my account for a free HD DVR. When I had called a regular csr prior to all my problems, to inquire on the HR34, they said I could get it installed for $199. Didn't bite, since I felt it was just a "nice to have" option. When I started having issues, it was seemed like more of a necessity. Free just iced it.

If you want an HR34, call and say cancel to get to retention. Explain how frustrated you are with your current situation. That you may have to look at another provider, even though you really don't want to. Then let them know that prior to the issues, you were thinking of getting the HR34. And ask if there is any chance they can work a deal to replace what you have. Then see what they say.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

Currently I'm working through someone with a DirecTv Rep and sending troubleshooting information from both DVRs to DirecTv via something called SENDREPORT. This apparently gives them more data to figure out what the problem might be. I certainly wouldn't mind moving my HR24 up to my bedroom and putting an HR34 in my living room. You give very good advice and I just might have to take it. Let's see how the next week goes. If I start loosing programming, I'm going to be forced down that path.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Good luck, hope everything works out for you.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

Another Update:
Last night (4/15/2012) at 11:49 PM the HR23 rebooted. It was in the middle of recording channel 204 (so I could tell when it reboots).

My HR21 has not rebooted yet but sometimes it will skip a day so we will see when it happens.

I'm curious if the HR23 will reboot at the same time again tonight.

-Mark


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

My current DVR testing has shown these results...

I started recording Channel 204 (because it's SD and there are several long programs) on both DVRs. This has been going on for several days. I had the HR23 reboot once, appears to have tried to slipped in between recordings (sneaky bugger) but slightly cut the end off one program. The HR21 has never rebooted since starting this and the HR23 rebooted just that once.

This rules out flaky hardware, electrical problems, dish or coax, etc... It's not hardware.

So the problem must be software related. I suspect the DVRs are not rebooting because they sense a recording is going on and simply do not reboot because of that. It's just a guess, I can't say it's factual.

I will stop all this 24/7 recording later today or tomorrow, forget how far I set up the recordings. Either way I will be watching to see if the DVRs start rebooting again.

Something else could have happened, DirecTv could have fixed something in the program guide data which is what I think is causing the problem, or something in the stream that is specific to my market area. I'll find out soon.

-Mark


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

So I've stopped continuous recordings and now the DVRs are back to rebooting. This is very irritating. Guess it's time to watch any programs now that we haven't seen and get ready for two DVR replacements as I suspect that is what DirecTv will be doing. Very irritating. This is where the encrypted hard drives for a specific machine just make life more difficult. I guess it could be the LNB although from an engineering stand point I don't see how that is possible at all.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If multiple HD DVRs are rebooting on their own...it would seem that the problem rests in something they both have in common.
> 
> That narrows the search to the Dish, SWM, or cables to these 2 devices.
> 
> ...


Either something in common, or something coincidental.

From what I know about RF, it would be extremely unlikely that something passive like a connector or cable or splitter or antenna or passive multiswitch could ever cause a system to reboot. I highly doubt that this is the place to look, and if you look there it means you are not looking for the usual suspects.

It is also highly likely that problems with active components in the RF path (powered multiswitch, LNBF) could manifest in such a manner. If one understands how RF works, how software works, and how microprocessors work, it is difficult to see what that causal connection might possibly be. There is plenty of infrastructure isolating them in a DVR.

If it were the case that this might be a suspected causal link, simply disconnecting an RF cable or tuning a channel that was not there would cause a reboot. It never does.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

TomCat,
Thanks for tossing in a rational thought. I completely agree. Things are odd with these two DVRs. On Sunday and Monday morning they both started to freeze, then eventually clear. My wife and I were watching a few recorded programs on the HR21 on Sunday and the program froze anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes. Removing the coax solved the problem and we finished watching all but 1 program. Come Monday morning I performed the NVRAM clearing and the DVR rebooted about every 30 minutes (+/- 3 minutes) for 4 hours then has been running fine since, well it didn't freeze or reboot. I haven't checked it this morning for odd activity.

All my problems started when these two DVRs got a software update or shortly after (a few days). I'm still convinced it's the software and program guide data together causing the problems. More needs to be done on my part to see if clearing the NVRAM actually solved the problems on the HR21 and if it did then I will be clearing NVRAM on the HR23 and crossing my fingers.

I agree, an RF signal cannot cause these problems I'm seeing however the data within the RF signal could. It's the only thing which makes any sense.

If I find out my HR21 is still flaky, once I've watched that last recorded program then I will do a full blown reset of the DVR. Try to take it back to near factory, I guess that is the purpose of the third reset option.

Also, things I've done have been all the internal tests except the surface scan on the internal hard drive. Everything passed.

So I'm still looking for other straws to grasp at. In the meantime I will be looking at other DVRs to possibly replace the two I have. I heard the Tivo units were coming out several months ago, I hope they are on the market if I really do need to replace both units. DTivos never gave me grief in the past.



TomCat said:


> Either something in common, or something coincidental.
> 
> From what I know about RF, it would be extremely unlikely that something passive like a connector or cable or splitter or antenna or passive multiswitch could ever cause a system to reboot. I highly doubt that this is the place to look, and if you look there it means you are not looking for the usual suspects.
> 
> ...


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

RACJ2 said:


> ....Your situation may be different then mine, but one of my HR22's started rebooting almost every day when the second release of the HD GUI downloaded. And then it started missing recordings. When it got worse, I had to RBR just to get it working. All diagnostic tests that I ran and then a "technical" csr had me run again, showed it was fine, but it wasn't. I replaced it with an HR34 and its been working good ever since (Had some bugs on the SD GUI, but most seem resolved on the HD GUI). I only mention this, because it appears that sometimes the diagnostics don't reveal an issue....


Remember what I said above, sounds like you are going down the same path. I really feel that my issue was with the hard drive and the additional load put on it with the HD GUI download, pushed it over the edge.

May be time to at least try calling to see if they sill ship you a DVR to replace one of them. If so, disconnect the coax from your old one before you deactivate it, so you can continue to watch the recordings. Although if it keeps rebooting, it may lock it down after a certain period of time. And of course, you will have to send it back at some point, so they don't charge you for it.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

If it was the new HD GUI, which I'm still certain it's the new software, but DirecTv has an obligation to ensure the software is compatible. Right now I feel like they are drumming up new income. To have two units having the same problem at the same time, this bugs me. I am looking into replacements but when I called DirecTv they told me they would need to send out a service rep and maybe replace the LNB. I won't get the HR34 because I'm hearing about too many problems with it still although if it worked properly I'd really like it. I would hate to migrate over to my local cable provider, I've been with DirecTv for 11 years now and we are very use to the channel lineup and the service (when it works) is very good.



RACJ2 said:


> Remember what I said above, sounds like you are going down the same path. I really feel that my issue was with the hard drive and the additional load put on it with the HD GUI download, pushed it over the edge.
> 
> May be time to at least try calling to see if they sill ship you a DVR to replace one of them. If so, disconnect the coax from your old one before you deactivate it, so you can continue to watch the recordings. Although if it keeps rebooting, it may lock it down after a certain period of time. And of course, you will have to send it back at some point, so they don't charge you for it.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Joe Schmuck said:


> If it was the new HD GUI, which I'm still certain it's the new software, but DirecTv has an obligation to ensure the software is compatible. Right now I feel like they are drumming up new income. To have two units having the same problem at the same time, this bugs me. I am looking into replacements but when I called DirecTv they told me they would need to send out a service rep and maybe replace the LNB. I won't get the HR34 because I'm hearing about too many problems with it still although if it worked properly I'd really like it. I would hate to migrate over to my local cable provider, I've been with DirecTv for 11 years now and we are very use to the channel lineup and the service (when it works) is very good.


They wanted to send out a tech with my issue as well. I figured instead of paying $60, I could put that towards the HR34. As it ended up, getting it free meant saving the $60. And I'm very happy with the HR34 by the way, despite a couple insignificant issues I'm experiencing.

In your case, not wanting to go for the HR34, it may be worth $60 if the tech can actually resolve your issue. If he can't, then ask for credits to offset the charge, since they couldn't fix your issue.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> They wanted to send out a tech with my issue as well. I figured instead of paying $60, I could put that towards the HR34. As it ended up, getting it free meant saving the $60. And I'm very happy with the HR34 by the way, despite a couple insignificant issues I'm experiencing.
> 
> In your case, not wanting to go for the HR34, it may be worth $60 if the tech can actually resolve your issue. If he can't, then ask for credits to offset the charge, since they couldn't fix your issue.


Well I looked into the HR34 a bit more. Still a lot of complaints so I'm going to call in a tech. If that fixes it without replacement of both DVRs then I can live with it but if I'm told both DVRs need to be replaced, you can bet I'll argue for the free HR34. I still need to check out my other options like the local cable company, which is how I'm on the internet so it's a simple and quick visit to be up and running, just not sure about the channel lineup yet. I guess Dish is also an option but I'll have to take a serious look into it all first. I've spent quite a bit of money on these units (HR21, HR23, HR24) so I'm invested. I'll also sign up for their service plan, it's cheaper than the $60.00 if I still have problems in the near future.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Joe Schmuck said:


> Well I looked into the HR34 a bit more. Still a lot of complaints so I'm going to call in a tech. If that fixes it without replacement of both DVRs then I can live with it but if I'm told both DVRs need to be replaced, you can bet I'll argue for the free HR34. I still need to check out my other options like the local cable company, which is how I'm on the internet so it's a simple and quick visit to be up and running, just not sure about the channel lineup yet. I guess Dish is also an option but I'll have to take a serious look into it all first. I've spent quite a bit of money on these units (HR21, HR23, HR24) so I'm invested. I'll also sign up for their service plan, it's cheaper than the $60.00 if I still have problems in the near future.


Just keep in mind that if you sign up with the service plan, you have to keep it for a year. And you only have a short period of time to cancel w/o penalty on the anniversary of the plan. Also, there may be a waiting period, before you can use the plan. In the past, if you had an issue, they would use it as an opportunity to sign you up for the service plan. Last I heard that isn't the case anymore.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> Just keep in mind that if you sign up with the service plan, you have to keep it for a year. And you only have a short period of time to cancel w/o penalty on the anniversary of the plan. Also, there may be a waiting period, before you can use the plan. In the past, if you had an issue, they would use it as an opportunity to sign you up for the service plan. Last I heard that isn't the case anymore.


When I talked to a rep two weeks ago they said it would be immediate and I could use it for the service call. Of course they didn't mention how long I had to retain it.

My local cable company has a reasonable deal for the channels I watch and record, free cable cards, and I can buy my own TiVo units and be happy again. The downside is laying out the money for a new TiVo unit, $400 each but they have 4 tuners and can share recordings which is what I'm spoiled to now. So it looks like that is a good alternative if I can't get DirecTv all fixed. Got to look into Dish to see what they are offering but I'm not sure about moving to the enemy.

My main goal is to get DirecTv working again properly. I wish I could roll back the software on my two DVRs.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

Well magically both DVRs started working normally again. What changed? Nothing on my end. The software is the same and I hadn't made any changes to anything over the past several days but Monday I noticed that my bedroom DVR (HR23) was not a nightlight like it normally is around 3 AM, and my HR21 in the living room had stopped rebooting as well and stayed turned off. Niether one has frozen up.

So what changed? I still suspect the program guide data for my market area and possibly the fact that I don't have a SL-5 LNB. I was told I wasn't getting the 119 sat and that was possibly causing my problems. With SL-3 you don't get 119 sat at all.

Your guess is as good as mine, I'm just glad they are working again.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Joe Schmuck said:


> ...I agree, an RF signal cannot cause these problems I'm seeing however the data within the RF signal could. It's the only thing which makes any sense...


It could, but not likely. But then "likely" caught the stagecoach out of town a long time ago, apparently.

To put this more precisely, something that impairs the normal operation of RF such as a corroded connector could not cause the issue, while corruption in the stream itself, which is unaffected either way by how much physical integrity the cabling might have, could indeed be a problem. So I think we are in agreement here.

The clue that seems to draw me in is that things improve when you disconnect the sat cables. That sounds really incredulous, but it it really is the case, then maybe there was something in the stream, and something in particular targeted to your local spot beam. IOW, data regarding the guide info or one particular program in the guide info that was corrupted (which did not air in other markets) could cause a localized problem.

DTV and DISH have both, in the past, had rashes of problems with corrupted stuff in the stream, but they usually affect lots of boxes. In this case it should have affected boxes in your location only, maybe, but it is hard to see how it could have affected just you.

Do you have a custom "second market" setup configured in your boxes that possibly most other users in your location might not? If so, that could explain the difference.

Also, this quit spontaneously, which could be coincidental with the affected program or listing aging out of the guide (IOW, the program aired, deleted itself from the guide info, and took the problem away with it).

While there are obvious differences, there is a similarity to a problem we once had with servers on a domain booting, and taking 45 minutes to complete bootup. They would get stuck on the "applying network settings" dialog. On a hunch we discovered quite by accident that if we removed the network cables briefly, the servers would boot up normally. There was a DNS issue, and the servers were apparently hammering on that repeatedly trying to resolve DNS from the domain controller. Once disconnected from that, they gave up and booted normally. Reconnect the network cable, and all is well. Who knew?

So yes, something a box is connected to can be the source of a problem.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

When I was talking about the RF signal, I was referring to data in the stream, not the quality of the RF signal itself so we are on the same page. 

As for why me and no one else... Here is how I see it assuming it's say program guide data related...

1) People who have DirecTv are not all as geeky as us who troll these threads on the internet so that would be one factor for possibly limited issue in my area.

2) SWM is somewhat new and I doubt there are a large amount of people having multiple DVRs on a SWM and using SL-3 LNB. I'm certain there are many folks using DVRs with two coax cables feeding them like I use to have. I'm sure there are many who have the older 5 LNB setup which means the 119 sat would be within reach (because I was told by DirecTv software engineer my 119 sat was causing the problem from reading my data dump).

So there could be multiple factors which led up to my particular circumstances. I can't explain any other reason for both DVRs to display the same symptoms at the same time and covering ~4 weeks and then magically both stop the odd behavior and work like nothing ever happened.

Now I wish I could trade in those two DVRs for one HR34 for free. I know that if this problem returns, I'm going to either get a free HR34 to replace those two DVRs or move to Dish Hopper. I really like the channel lineup at DirecTv but I can't pay for crappy service, not at $102/mo. I'd rather get the rabbit ears out but I can't get TNT, USA, or SCIFI.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

I recommend patience. Your experience is very rare. My best guess is that you will not see this problem again. I would wait until you at the very least have a serial pattern of bad behavior from DTV. They are the frying pan; DISH is the fire. Good luck, Joe.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

Well the techs came out this morning, good thing I had a morning appointment and was the first one on their list.

They adjusted the dish very slightly and had "acceptable" signal levels (SNR was high on the 103) via their test equipment but every box in my house said the 103 taps failed. The sat signal levels were 85+ on the 103 sat. They called for a waiver but were told to try a new LNB. Guess what, all works better. Of course they did replace my two DVRs with HR24/500 models and added a wireless access point and new SWM splitter (green one for using coax for network traffic). This job took 3 hours all because of the LNB.

So, why did the DVRs reboot but not my original HR24?

I suspect the new software that the HR21 & HR23 received was forcing the DVR to reboot due to the LNB failure. I witnessed the new HR23 reboot while the coax was disconnected on the roof during the alignment.

So, all my problems stemmed from the LNB failure (could have had it for quite a while) and the software update.

What to take away from this lesson... Don't trust that strong sat levels mean your LNB isn't still bad.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Glad to hear it was resolved. I found that you can't trust the diagnostic tests on the HR's either. My hard drive had to be failing, the way it was acting, but it passed all tests.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Joe Schmuck said:


> Well the techs came out this morning, good thing I had a morning appointment and was the first one on their list.
> 
> They adjusted the dish very slightly and had "acceptable" signal levels (SNR was high on the 103) via their test equipment but every box in my house said the 103 taps failed. The sat signal levels were 85+ on the 103 sat. They called for a waiver but were told to try a new LNB. Guess what, all works better. Of course they did replace my two DVRs with HR24/500 models and added a wireless access point and new SWM splitter (green one for using coax for network traffic). This job took 3 hours all because of the LNB.
> 
> ...


This all seems very sketchy. Again, there is no issue with low signal or disconnected sats that can cause a DVR to reboot. Your problem (rebooting) basically went away before the service crew ever got there; the reboot you saw was probably just coincidental. I am still betting on corruption in the data stream for a program that aged out of your guide, taking the problem with it.

But you did have low signal that was fixed by a new LNB. That we know. I just fail to see how that ties into the rebooting; I think that was a separate issue. I would not put much stock in your conclusion that high signal levels
can be a false positive regarding whether the LNB will produce such levels. A high level reading is actually proof that the LNB is putting out proper levels. "85" or even "95" is not a high signal level. "100" is a high signal level. "95" is an acceptable level. "85" is not acceptable.

But the LNBF does more than merely amplify and block convert RF; it also has a multiswitch built into it that responds to DC levels from the STBs. That may be why it was replaced. We don't have enough info to draw conclusions either way; all we know is they had "acceptable levels" after a reaim and still replaced it.

I think the replacement of the '24s was possibly not necessary. It was probably done because you were a customer on the edge of leaving with lots of issues and they did not want to take a chance on a callback. Might be the same reason for the LNB replacement. When a tech service call approaches 3 hours, it gets to a point where they really can't pinpoint the issue and just start shotgunning all components. That seems like what happened here.

They are probably not going to say "Gee, Mr, Schmuck...we cant figure this one out...I guess we'll just replace everything until the problems go away"; they have to put up a front that they are the experts and have everything completely in hand (even if they are scratching their heads when you are not looking). Otherwise you might lose confidence in them, and that is the kiss of death for a tech. Perception is always more important than reality. But what you eventually see is everything getting replaced one by one.

That said, I'm glad you got great service, and I love a happy ending. If indeed that is the end. Time will tell.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

@TomCat

Your reply sounds accurate. I am happy with the outcome that everything is working. Lets see how long it lasts, hopefully for a few years before I see another irritating problem. Now if the sound issue would go away, you know where the sound will drop off when you either tune in a channel or are more likely FF a program an when hitting play there is no sound. I understand turning off Dolby will correct the irritation but then I'd be irritated not having Dolby. I choose the Dolby and live with the irritation. It only happens a few times a day at most and is easily fixed. Pause, Play.

So I'd like to thank everyone for their advice, I have lost more hair during this fun time and thankfully it's currently over.

-Joe Schmuck


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Joe Schmuck said:


> ...Now if the sound issue would go away, you know where the sound will drop off when you either tune in a channel or are more likely FF a program an when hitting play there is no sound. I understand turning off Dolby will correct the irritation but then I'd be irritated not having Dolby. I choose the Dolby and live with the irritation...


Never heard this one (no pun). If you have an AVR, make sure it is updated to the latest firmware.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

TomCat said:


> Never heard this one (no pun). If you have an AVR, make sure it is updated to the latest firmware.


Seriously, never heard of it? I've seen it posted at many sites and the solution is to turn off Dolby. I think it's a crime to turn off Dolby if you have a sound system installed. If you are using TV speakers then that's okay. My firmware is up to date, the techs insured it. The problem still occurs and the blame is compatibility. I myself feel DirecTv is the one with the compatibility issue since it happens on many AV systems and to fix it, just pause and play.

Eh, thankfully my DVRs are working again without issue. I have ordered a new SL-3 dish with LNB and will be pole mounting it in the ground so I can adjust it, clean it off, etc... without climbing 40+ feet in the air on my steep roof.

Cheers


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## PlanetBill (May 8, 2006)

did you get charged for the LNB and swm? I think I have a swm going south, maybe LNB, very simuliar problem to yours. HR23 in reboot loop, HR20 works, occassional video break up and 771/771A message.

I had to pay for my swm several years ago, I'd hate to again.


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## Joe Schmuck (Nov 6, 2007)

I paid $30.00 (normally $50.00) for the service call. The techs are to fix whatever the problem is and if that includes new SWM, LNB, DVRs, they do it at no extra charge. If they ask you for more money and you didn't ask them for something specific like running new lines, then I wouldn't pay them and call DirecTv up to find out what the deal is. It's all covered for I think 30+ days so if the problem comes back during that time there is no additional charge. 

Paying $30.00 one time vs. $6.00 a month for years is a better deal for me. I'm pretty handy and can fix the simple things myself but if I need to call DirecTv in, it's a fair price to fix it all up.

Hope that helps.


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