# Why pay for HDTV when it's free?



## feelingfine (Nov 22, 2002)

Why should anyone be FORCED to pay god knows how much money for a Dish PVR921, when cable companies will give you a free box with HDTV programming. OK, so you can't record on it, but all that extra money Dish Network wants you to spend to view a few HD channels is way too much to ask. I think the cable companies will win the HDTV wars since satellite companies make you pay large sums of money for their boxes. The PVR921 is a mistake since 90 percent of the population wont buy it!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You are not FORCED to, you dont have to buy it if you dont want to. There are many more cable subscribers than satellite subscribers overall, therefore more people to have the technology developed for.

Are the receivers that cable has both HDTV and PVR units where you can actually record HDTV on them? Dish has a HDTV receiver out that is cheaper than the 921 and will have a new HDTV receiver come out without the PVR in it in the future.

Cable may not charge extra money upfront but they get their money off the programming by charging extra or charging an extra rental fee each month.


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## wiz (Jan 10, 2003)

WHAT IF YOUR LIKE ME AND LIVE IN RURAL AMERICA (LIKE 30% OF THE POPULATION), NO HD CABLE, NO CHOICE.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Cable companies give you HD boxes for FREE?

I don't think so.

All the cable companies I know are charging at least $10 a month for HD receivers. (and in some cases its $20 a month!)

You don't need a 921 to watch HDTV. a 921 is a PVR which lets you time shift programs. 

I can't wait to get my 921.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I just have to say it. This post is either by someone who is absolutlely clueless, or is just trying to stir up the pot. Forced? Cable giving FREE boxes? PLEEEEASE ............


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

> All the cable companies I know are charging at least $10 a month for HD receivers. (and in some cases its $20 a month!)


Comcast charges $5/mo. Most providers seem to charge between $5 and $10. Some cable providers do try to charge you an additional $20 to $50 "HDTV Installation" fee just to swap out your old box with the new one.

In most cases though, the cable boxes aren't as feature rich as those used by the DBS providers. They don't offer as many display or format / aspect options. Moreover, I don't know of any HDTV cable boxes in use that are available with DVI or Firewire.

Future HDTV satellite boxes, like the 6000 successor, will be more affordable. In a year, I expect HDTV satellite products will be available from both providers at $399 or less, and possibly even $299.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

$20 for a HD STB from the Cable company should be a crime. Our local Time Warner franchise rents the SA3100 for $7 a month. Great deal if the 3100 wasn't a POS.

Last I checked though 80% of households in the US had some form of Cable/DBS for broadcasting. Now is the 921 (or for that matter the 721) for everyone. No. 

But by 2005-2006 there will be many low cost HD solutions to choose from.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

May I second many of the other posts here. I am in a white area and the local cable will not be providing any HD signal for years to come.
I guess "feelingfine" believes only he has all the answers. No one ever considered HD cable vs. sat costs before him. People like this are either very smart or very .....


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Cable companies give you HD boxes for FREE?
> 
> I don't think so.
> ...


Not here in New York, Scott. AFAIK, the HDTV box from Time Warner is no additional cost. You pay the same as a regular subscriber.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

The first Box in NY is free and included in the package each additional is $5.59. The NY packages appear to be about $10 more than packages in my TW area. So it's looks like a wash at best. Worst case you're paying a couple bucks more. But that's New York baby.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kagato _
> *The first Box in NY is free and included in the package each additional is $5.59. The NY packages appear to be about $10 more than packages in my TW area. So it's looks like a wash at best. Worst case you're paying a couple bucks more. But that's New York baby. *


It's the same for any digital package, those prices are not specific to HD.


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## feelingfine (Nov 22, 2002)

OK, let me explain myself. I live on Long Island and Cablevision started offering high definition HBO, Showtime, FoxSportsNY and MSG Network. I called them up to find out the details. They offered me deal including every channel except Playboy and 3 converter boxes for the same price as Dish Net Top 100 plus HBO and Cinemax. This deal is only for a year so Cablevision will have to decide if they wanna keep my rates down so they don't risk losing me again. Now, if I wanted to watch HDTV on Dish Net, I'd have to by a 6000 receiver at about $500. THE CABLE BOXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRICE. I'm sorry I didn't consider people who live in rurals areas who don't have a choice.Please accept my apology.As for the PVR921, it's gonna be awesome, but I can't see anyone but enthusiasts like ourselves willing to shell out the large sum of money it will cost.

The intentions of my original post were not to stir the pot but just merely to inform people that the satellite companies better wise up before cable tv beats them on the HDTV front!


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

I am glad to see the pot stirred so I can try and decide about getting a 921 when it comes out- I have had so much fun troubleshooting and listening to the fan on the 721- I can't wait. Love being on the bleeding edge of technology....


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

It is an option, on cable and on satellite.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Here's your answer......

Since May 2000 when I left Cablevision, my neighbor's bills have been increased 5 TIMES!

Total increase to me a month since then from E*? $2 (comparing similar programming from E* - I've added a few more channels since then)

Plus, my PVR is what keeps me anchored to Satellite. No degradation of picture a la a standalone Tivo. It records and plays back Dolby Digital sound when available. And when the 921 comes out I will be able to record HD programming INCLUDING HD programming from an OTA tuner which will finally allow me to receive Philadelphia HDTV from a market that Congress in its infinite wisdom prohibited me fom receiving via Satellite (I only "qualify" for New York Locals, much to my wife's, the Eagles' fan, dismay.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Feelingfine,
I respect you for coming back to reply to this thread. I was definately a little hard on you. Welcome to these forums!

If you read some of the posts you will see you are paying for the boxes one way or the other. Cable is very good at making people think something is free. If you think you are getting the locals for free on cable that would also be wrong. They may include it in the price but they are charging you. In fact it is Dish and Direct that are giving you the choice to pay for them or not. In most instances Dish or Direct will have as many or more channels at a lower cost including the charge for locals as cable will.

One other thing. I see you called and got the information. I can't tell you how many posts, and my personnel experience, show how often what you are told on the phone by cable is not what happens when you get billed. If it works out for you that is great. I don't mean to talk you out of anything. Just beware.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I've heard of these switch over deals. I gould say as long as Cable Vision wasn't making you give them your existing DBS equiptment then there's not problem with the deal. I know someone in NC who did a deal like this last year. After the year was up he was paying normal rates. Also watch out for unregulated fees such as Franchise Fees, Service Fees, etc. They seem small, but over the course of a year it can get you.

If you still have your DBS gear then it's not problem. Plug it back in, and call to get it authorized. On the other hand if they made you give them a dish or a STB your SOL because you'll never get the first time subscriber discount.

I keep up with several AV forums, and I have to say for every post about a cable switch over deal I see a post about some cable companies forcing customers to purchase HD-STBs outright. So lesson is, there is no right or wrong answer about Cable VS DBS. It depends on where you live and what their offer is. Second, you don't owe your cable or DBS company anything. If someone has a better deal go for it. Call up your current company and be honest why you are switching. Third, never go for a deal which requires you to give up existing DBS equiptment. You never know when you might want to go back.


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## chris_h (Mar 19, 2003)

I live in the Sacramento, CA area. I think we are in the top 20 TV viewing audiences nation wide (in terms of size). Not exactly a rural area. AT&T/Comcast cable in our area does not offer any HDTV. They probably will not do so for quite a few years.
I want my 921!


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

Kind of related topic, I was at a friends house who has comcast, with an on demand option. Does anyone know how this works. Almost seems like you can set shows to record and to watch later, but there is no internal drive, does the cable companies have some server or something??


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## kelliot (May 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jerry 42 _
> *May I second many of the other posts here. I am in a white area and the local cable will not be providing any HD signal for years to come.
> I guess "feelingfine" believes only he has all the answers. No one ever considered HD cable vs. sat costs before him. People like this are either very smart or very ..... *


I think I have the same cableco (Adelphia). I don't think they'll ever have HD although in their latest flier they bragged about their fiber to the curb as providing HD eventually. I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Cable has a way of trying to make it to where it looks like you are paying nothing extra for the extra service like digital, HD, pvr services, locals, etc while satellite charges extra when in fact it does cost extra on cable, it is just that cable does not give you the option to not include it and makes satellite look bad for doing that.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Bill D: It's Video On Demand (VOD). And yes, there is a central server that serves video to your house. You'll notice a little bit of a delay when hitting pause and stuff. That's VOD. Most digital cable boxes can actually do it, but many systems have not purchased the head end equiptment. (A big old computer with lots of Hard Drive Space.)


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

I just called comcast in my area, and they right now only have the demand on certain movie channels. So not anywhere near to a PVR type device. The digital cable setup with 12 channels of HBO is $75 a month, to get a HD cable receiver instead of a regular digital cable.. same price. That is a pretty big deal for those without a PVR. You may end up paying a little more for services but no extra charge in this case for a HD receiver compared to hundreds of dollars for an older model 6000


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Indeed -- we're not just talking about "rural" areas that don't have cable-based HDTV offerings yet. There are many areas where no HDTV signal is available for OTA or via cable where DBS is the only real source -- regardless of cost.

I happen to be in one of those areas. If I want HDTV, it'll have to come via Dish. Yes, I wish I didn't have to pay $500 to get a 6000 box to watch it -- but that's the ONLY "option" at this point.

Not all of us live on Long Island. 

- John...


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

I'M in the fifth largest DMA in the country, and I live in a crowded, suburban neighborhood. But due to the hilly terrain of the Bay Area, there are *no* receivable OTA broadcasts to be had, so we are at the mercy of Comcast for any local HDTV (and Comcast seems to have no interest in providing us with any).


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Sometime in the 21st century Comcast might get around to upgrading our cable system, heck we still don't have cable internet access either yet. 

Even if Comcast gave the box away for free I still wouldn't leave Dish. I wouldn't want to give up all the other things I get from Dish, such as Dolby Digital 5.1 audio on a number of premium channels. Set top boxes with RF remotes, caller ID displays. SD boxes that actually have S-Video outputs vs. Comcast's boxes what top out only with component video.


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

> Comcast's boxes what top out only with component video.


I'm sure you mean _composite_. If they were _component_, they'd actually be an improvement over Dish.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Lyle_JP _
> *
> 
> I'm sure you mean composite. If they were component, they'd actually be an improvement over Dish. *


DOH! Yep, I meant composite. Thanks - Rick


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by feelingfine _
> *Why should anyone be FORCED to pay god knows how much money for a Dish PVR921, when cable companies will give you a free box with HDTV programming. *


You sure don't have your facts stright. My cable company (Insight) requires you to subscribe to at least the lower level digital tier (about $50 dollars a month, and that includes 71 analog channels and only a few digital channels). That price includes one digital set top box. Then you have to rent a seperate box for HDTV and you can only get one HDTV channel (the local CBS affiliate) which cost an additional $3 a month (if you subscribe to HBO or Showtime you get them in HD with the box). There are 6 OTA channels that broadcast HDTV in our market but the cable company said that the other HDTV channels do not have enough "true" HDTV programming to justify carrying them (how is that for censorship?).


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

_"The PVR921 is a mistake since 90 percent of the population wont buy it!"_

More like 99.9%


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