# what is the "native" output resolution of a VIP622?



## jonm42 (Apr 27, 2006)

After spending 30+ minutes trying to search on various variations of the above, I decided to ask the question directly. What output format on a 622 has the least processing/scaling/mucking about? The reason I ask -- I'm planning on getting a Sony 46XBR2 46" LCD with native 1080p support. I'm also planning on getting a DVDO VP-50 (wallet allowing  ). Since mucking is what the DVDO does best, I'd like to give it a as little as mucked with signal to work with as possible. Thanks!


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

The 1080 I will have the least mucking about as you are saying.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Most feeds *IN* to the 622 are 1080i. The 622 can output 720p, 1080i or 480i/p formats. I'm not sure I'd call any of them native, but if you're following the inputs 1080i would be the closest match.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Depends on what channels you are watching... since most of the Dish content is still SD... then most content is delivered as 480i. But I'm guessing you probably aren't really asking the question I am answering.

So I might be adding unneeded info.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Since the 622 has no native resolution pass-through, you unfortunately aren't going to be able to find a resolution which has "no mucking with the signal". With that being said, probably 1080i is your best bet, since this seems to be what the majority of high definition content is being broadcast in.

Of course, in many cases / for a number of channels, Dish is broadcasting 1080i which is not 1920x1080, so the 1080i which is output in such cases is already not equivalent to the input signal...


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

I've recorded the HDNet test pattern and used that to determine which output signal to use. Based on how my 42" set responded to the pattern, I set the 622 to 720p. At 1080i, I saw some edge artifacts on the pattern. I didn't see any appreciable difference one way or the other on actual viewing. But, the TP looked perfect at 720p.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Great Question.

The ViP 622 outputs at 480i, 480p, 780i, 780p and 1080i. There is NO SUPPORT at 1080p at this time.. at least that I am aware of.. so spending the xtra dough for 1080p decoding on the monitor seems a little wasteful.. if there is a price difference.

Frankly.. at 1080i / p I can't tell the difference. Some people say they can. I can't.



jonm42 said:


> After spending 30+ minutes trying to search on various variations of the above, I decided to ask the question directly. What output format on a 622 has the least processing/scaling/mucking about? The reason I ask -- I'm planning on getting a Sony 46XBR2 46" LCD with native 1080p support. I'm also planning on getting a DVDO VP-50 (wallet allowing  ). Since mucking is what the DVDO does best, I'd like to give it a as little as mucked with signal to work with as possible. Thanks!


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

If you set has native 1080i then go with that. If it is native 720p go with that. You can also experiment with which device does the coversion better, the 622 or the TV. So take a show you know is 1080i and set the box to 720p and what it on your set. Then watch a show you know is 720p and output that at 720p on your 1080i set and see what it does. There are lots of options. My guess is that in general the TV will do a better job at converting the signals, so when Dish gives us native passthrough on the 622 that is what I will do--have the TV do the conversion. I don't have much hope for 1080p in the foreseeable future with TV signals transmitted regardless of the provider or method, they all can barely give us 30 HD channels without down rezzing them. The 1080p TV will be great for HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs, but won't benefit you much on anything else for quite awhile. I can't tell much of difference on any of it. I think it matters more on say a super huge (70''+) set, but less than that probably won't do much. The signals from some stations vary a lot based on the quality of cameras they use, the method they use for compressing it, the method used to transmit it, the method used to decode it etc... all have a greater impact, and all those things you can't do anything about. My guess is that a 1080p tv might even make a 720p signal via MPEG4 look even worse, not better, since it will show more of the problems, just like HD TVs show more problems with SD signals.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

ebaltz said:


> My guess is that in general the TV will do a better job at converting the signals, so when Dish gives us native passthrough on the 622 that is what I will do--have the TV do the conversion.


This has been my experience. I was messing around with the settings over the weekend. My tv has a 720p native resolution, and the picture looked better in general to me when I left the 622 at 1080i. I think the tv is doing a better job of scaling than the 622.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

How does that look with 720p channels such as the ESPN HDs?


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Interestingly, I thought those looked better, too. I tried it out during some of Saturday's college football games to test that specifically. The picture looked crisper to my eyes when the 622 was in 1080i mode. It was not at all what I expected, but I'm also not a professional looker-atter.

I really think this is all very subjective, and the only right answer for each person is to mess around and stick with what looks best.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

gsarjeant said:


> Interestingly, I thought those looked better, too. I tried it out during some of Saturday's college football games to test that specifically. The picture looked crisper to my eyes when the 622 was in 1080i mode. It was not at all what I expected, but I'm also not a professional looker-atter.
> 
> I really think this is all very subjective, and the only right answer for each person is to mess around and stick with what looks best.


It could be that the scaling down done by the TV is eliminating some dithering and antiasing edges that weren't great in the original broadcast.

For example, I'll note that most HD network TV (OTA) shows seem to have a fair amount of dithering in them compared to the locally produced CBS broadcast news (Boston) which is simply stunning in its sharpness and clarity even if they don't use the widescreen aspect ratio.

I attribute it to compression off the satellite feeds to the local stations, but I'm not a TV-Insider. It could be that your TV scaling helps eliminate some of that.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

gsarjeant said:


> This has been my experience. I was messing around with the settings over the weekend. My tv has a 720p native resolution, and the picture looked better in general to me when I left the 622 at 1080i. I think the tv is doing a better job of scaling than the 622.


Yeah I may try that combination too and see how it looks:


HDTV original signal = 1080i (in most instance--for the sake of argument)
622 output = set to 1080i (therefore not converting that signal)
TV set = automatically adjusts to whatever the input is but probably displays everthing in 720p so it does all the converting.

Drawback, a 720p original signal will be converted by the 622 to 1080i and then converted back to 720p by TV thus going through two conversions. Therefore best solution is for 622 to do native passthrough.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

ebaltz said:


> Drawback, a 720p original signal will be converted by the 622 to 1080i and then converted back to 720p by TV thus going through two conversions. Therefore best solution is for 622 to do native passthrough.


Agreed about native passthrough. That said, I was really expecting to see a worse picture on 720p broadcasts because of this double conversion, but even those looked better to me with the unit set to 1080i. I'd be interested to hear your impressions.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

gsarjeant said:


> Agreed about native passthrough. That said, I was really expecting to see a worse picture on 720p broadcasts because of this double conversion, but even those looked better to me with the unit set to 1080i. I'd be interested to hear your impressions.


I see the same on my 720p native Panasonic. My best picture comes with the 622 set at 1080i.


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## Rod (Jan 9, 2003)

Interesting discussion. Dan Minnick, vice president of engineering at E*, stated that native resolution pass through would be available by the end of last summer. He made that statement two Tech Chats ago.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Rod said:


> Interesting discussion. Dan Minnick, vice president of engineering at E*, stated that native resolution pass through would be available by the end of last summer. He made that statement two Tech Chats ago.


Yup... I can't recall them "hitting" many of the self-imposed deadlines they like to announce on those "Tech Chants". I really wish those guys would just stop making these kinds of statements - just say that "something's" being considered and let it go at that. I think doing so would boost their credibility quite a bit.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

720p channels:
ABC
Fox
ESPN

You could set the 622 to 720p for these, and switch to 1080i for others. But I've gotten bored with that and just leave it at the resolution of the TV.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Back to the original question.

Tuners and receivers do not have a "native" resolution, only displays have "native" resolution.

You match the output of your receiver/tuner to the native resolution of your display, or monkey around with it to get the best picture.

Most receivers/tuners will output 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i.


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