# DirecTV vs. FiOS



## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

I'm trying to do an objective comparison of DirecTV vs. FiOS, but particularly focusing on the use of an HD DVR with each service. I don't know if this is the correct forum to post this in, and if it's not, if someone could direct me to the best place, that would be great. What I would like to do is have an objective comparison of the features, costs, picture quality and performance. I've done some research and here's what I have so far:



FiOS has a multi-room DVR Option that allows you to watch recorded shows in two other rooms at the same time. The biggest PROBLEM with this is that any show recorded in HD is NOT able to be watched in any of these other rooms. Therefore, for those interested in HD content, this is more or less a useless feature. According to Verizon, the ability to watch HD content at remote locations may be a feature added at a later date.



The FiOS DVR allows for storage of 120 hours of SD programming, while the HR20 allows 200 hours. I could not find any information regarding storage of HD programming for the FiOS DVR, but one can assume that it would similarly be about 40% less than the HR20.



All FiOS DVRs automatically record HD content, i.e., there is not a SD DVR and HD DVR. I know a lot about the performance of the HR20 (which has been improving with the latest s/w updates), but I don't have any information about the performance or features of the FiOS DVR.



I've heard that PQ via FiOS is excellent, although I have not seen it firsthand. I also don't know how this PQ will compare against D*'s MPEG-4 PQ.



If you have Verizon home telephone service and Verizon internet service, FiOS will likely be considerable cheaper. Assuming (i) the only premium channel you want is HBO, (ii) you need two (HD) DVRs, (iii) have a total of 6 televisions and want DVR capability on each and (iv) want as much HD programming as possible, here's the breakdown:

DirecTV
Plus HD - $70
HBO - $13
5 Additional STBs - $25
Verizon Internet - $40
Verizon telephone service - $55 (this is estimated)
TOTAL - $203

FiOS
TV, Phone and Internet Bundle - $95
HBO - $16
DVR (2) - $26
Media Center - $20
3 Additional STBs - $15
TOTAL - $172



FiOS has an on-demand feature and I understand that this may be coming to the HR20


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

Question: are you an out of market NFL or MLB fan? If so, you have your answer?


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

IMHO - Go FiOS. Awesome internet speeds!


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

I just switched to FiOS internet. Spanky, it is faster.

I could've swtiched to FiOS TV but I stayed with DirecTV instead. I've been happy enough with the service, equipment, upgrade offers and programming credits in the last 4 years. I also had 22 months remaining on a contract. I could always add the TV at a later time.

Is the FiOS HD DVR upgradeable? If not, then it's pretty limited.

My 'in laws switched to FiOS internet and took the TV option the day after my install. They are happy but came from Cablevision Family Cable package without any boxes and all SD. For them, that MRV option is great, buy like you said, it all SD.

If I had started from scratch I probably would have taken the TV option with FiOS. It's probably a little cheaper but I'm not ready to drop DirecTV yet. I'm looking forward to a lot more HD in the near future from them too...And watching the HR20 grow is too much fun.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> IMHO - Go FiOS. Awesome internet speeds!


Better than 6 mbps with comcast?


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

bnglbill said:


> Better than 6 mbps with comcast?


In my area we've got 20 dl/5 up.


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## kaminsco (Nov 27, 2006)

What is FiOS?


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## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

DonCorleone said:


> Question: are you an out of market NFL or MLB fan? If so, you have your answer?


No, so that's not an issue for me. I'm also really trying to focus on FiOS TV. I'm probably going to add FiOS internet anyway since it's only $10/month more than what I'm paying now. My biggest issue with the FiOS DVR is its storage capacity, which seems to be only about 60% of the HR20. I also have no idea how well the FiOS DVR performs, which is obviously a critical piece of information.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

RMSko said:


> I'm trying to do an objective comparison of DirecTV vs. FiOS


A few months ago, I gave this analysis MUCH thought. Compared Cable (w/Series3) to DirecTV (HR20) to FIOS. First installed Series3, then HR20, don't yet have FIOS option available (but did research).

After much back-and-forth analysis, decided (for now) that the best is D* HR20. Currently have HR20 and Series3 still running side-by-side.

The absolute main decision factor was "content", with quality of the DVR 2nd, and cost 3rd.

To deal with your first question, I did install a "modulator" attached to the S-Video output of the HR20 which makes it available like a cable channel anywhere in the home.

Here's my most recent HR20 / Series3 comparison which might be helpful when you're looking at FIOS:

Reliability: Series3 slightly (rock-solid) - HR20 has gotten MUCH better recently
Interface: HR20 (much better, picture in guide great)
Remote: Series3 slightly (love the TiVo remote but getting very comfortable with HR20 remote, miss ability to one button on/off TV&Denon Receiver) 
Speed: HR20 (much quicker)
Dual tuner multi-tasking: Series3 (until HR20 has DLB!)
Photos/MP3: Series3 (much much better)
Upgrade: Series3 slightly (better to just swap internal drive, less connections, less power) - but eSATA HR20 has worked very well
HD Content: Series3 now (but HR20 will be better when new satellites are up soon)
Football Fan: HR20 (Sunday Ticket with interactive features is awesome)
Baseball Fan: HR20 if DirecTV gets MLB EI package
Wishlists: Series3 (but have not missed wishlists much)
Online Scheduling: Series3 (but Slingbox totally removed need for this feature)
MRV: Neither
2Go: Neither yet (use Slingbox instead, HR20 coming soon)
Video-on-Demand: Neither yet (HR20 VOD coming soon, Series3 getting Amazon Unbox)
Style: Series3 (looks very nice, but Black glossy HR20 might be better)
Front panel: Series3 (one record light for each tuner is nice, HR20 lights too bright)
Pay-per-view: HR20 (not existent on Series3)
Trickplay: Series3 (TiVo much much better especially with auto-correction)
HD Picture Quality: Series3 slightly (HR20 about the same)
Code Updates: HR20 (have enjoyed the HR20 CE experience)


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Also, when I was thinking FIOS, I was going to use the Series3 with FIOS ...


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## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

RMSko said:


> DirecTV
> Plus HD - $70
> HBO - $13
> 5 Additional STBs - $25
> ...


I have D* and have FIOS available here now. I save money with the Premier programming ($100) including ALL movie channels and the regional sports channels. With this I save (-$30) each month on my 5 HD and 1 SD DVR. 5 Additional STBs - $25 I (unfortunately) use the slower verizon DSL ($20) and phone only for tivo ($15). For a total of $160.

When I compare that to fios, its cheaper but much slower internet. I can live with that for now. Cell phone charges don't count, because I need that either way.

D* has lower quality HD (for now?) but way more HD channels and i'm addicted to the NFL ST/Superfan. I record every NFL game broadcast in HD. I also just dropped E* because I was paying $90 a month for a few Voom channels.

The Verizon and TW HD-DVR's become expensive if you need a lot. I read an article in my HT magazine that said FIOS HD is compressed some. Haven't seen it yet. Maybe post this comparison in a Cable TV forum to get a better read on Verizon TV.


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## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

kikkenit2 said:


> D* has lower quality HD (for now?) but way more HD channels and i'm addicted to the NFL ST/Superfan. I record every NFL game broadcast in HD. I also just dropped E* because I was paying $90 a month for a few Voom channels.


Is there an expectation that D*'s PQ will be improving? I'm also still wondering about MPEG-4 PQ. It takes up less storage space than MPEG-2, but is suppose to be better PQ. I assume it takes up less storage space b/c of better technology and not b/c of more compression (is that right?), but do most believe that MPEG-4 PQ is really that much better than MPEG-2?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

kaminsco said:


> What is FiOS?


http://www.verizonfios.com/


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I switched to FiOS internet about a year ago, and I love their service. FiOS TV became available a couple months ago, and I considered it, but decided against it for a number of reasons. One of which was cost. You're right to do an apples-to-apples comparison - that's exactly what I did -- I looked at getting the equivalent to what I have today with DirecTV, and FiOS, for me, turned out to be more expensive. But it depends on what you're looking for -- each situation is different, and FiOS has a very different pricing structure to DirecTV.

One other thing to keep in mind are "hidden costs" - i.e. taxes. FiOS is considered, for good or ill, a cable service, and as such is subject to the same fees (at least around here it is) as cable companies. For example, a coworker went to FiOS and got slapped with a $10 fee, from his township, to allow for "right of way" for the cable lines. It's also one reason why it's not available to everyone yet - even in areas where FiOS internet has been running for some time. They get individual franchises (much like cable) to run the service in different areas, and they have to negotiate the service with each township/city/town. Since many places have monopoly cable services (legal monopolies allowing only one cable company in your area), laws have to be changed to allow them to operate in your area.

Either way, I would take a look at some of the hidden fees/taxes for cable in your area - and assume that it would apply to you too.

Oh, and one other reason I opted not to go with them - their DVR. They use the same Motorola DVR that Comcast uses, and I've heard some not-so-nice things about that machine (despite the fact that I've heard similar things about the R15 - of which I have 2 - but you know the saying... better the devil you know than the one you don't... and I've had no major problems with the R15).

Finally is customer service. While Verizon's CSRs, I think, are very knowledgeable, just getting to the right CSR is a chore. Last summer our phone service gave out, and I had to try 4 different numbers before I got someone. The first, their service number, which came off my most recent bill, was no longer in service! This IS a phone company... and their phone number is wrong on their bill? Next I tried a general number, also off my bill, but it was a general number, and since the office was closed, I was told to call back during normal business hours (no option to go over to their emergency number).


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## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

RMSko said:


> Is there an expectation that D*'s PQ will be improving? I'm also still wondering about MPEG-4 PQ. It takes up less storage space than MPEG-2, but is suppose to be better PQ. I assume it takes up less storage space b/c of better technology and not b/c of more compression (is that right?), but do most believe that MPEG-4 PQ is really that much better than MPEG-2?


Most D* HD programming here in Los Angeles is MPEG-2 but I just got the 5 LNB slimline dish for my HR20's and now get more channels in HD. I assume they are all MPEG-4 at this point. The picture quality is generally slightly better but still not 1920 resolution. The newer compression uses 1/2 the bandwidth for the same picture quality. Good stuff and everybody is going to it.

When the new sats go up we will get the most HD programming of any system and can only hope (pray?) they will give us full 1080/1920 resolution on all channels. I don't think anybody knows for sure but I doubt it.

FIOS has faster internet than my DSL ($30 month more for me) and probably slightly better picture quality than what I have now. This may be a better choice for you. But for me D* is way better value. I just don't want to have to watch SD programming any more. Like Cinemax, Starz, Speed, MTV and Versus. All HD this fall. Now I just need more RSN and Spike in HD. YMMV


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

FIOS internet is the fastest Residential Broadband in THE US period (please correct me if I'm mistaken)

Dont know about your market but here are the speeds and price comparisons for my market

cable 
768 (dsl speed) $26
up to 5/2 $42
up to 15/2 $57

FIOS 
5/2 $39.99
15/2 $49.99
30/5 $54.99 (i hit 30-31 megs everyday (wired, cat-5) @ work, sometimes 15m wireless)

in some markets the speeds are 
10/2 $39.99
20/2 $49.99
50/5 $???

Fiber to the Home is the best choice for broadband imo.

as for TV both D* and FIOS have room for 150 hd channels so i don't know about that one we will see at the end of this year.


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

While I was at the mall tonight they had a whole FIOS booth setup there so you could watch TV use the Internet and even make a phone call. Call or visit Version customer service and see if there is a booth like this near yo then go and chek it all out in person. 

If I could get FIOS for internet there is no doubt I would jump all over it. For TV though I am pretty happy with D* and they have been very good to me through my HR20 install issues. Not that I feel I have to stay with them or anything. I just dont see anything in the FIOS TV that would make me jumo the D* ship. But again there is no way I can get FIOS here so it is easier for me to say.

Go have a look if you can find one of these setup booths.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I just had FIOS installed a little over a week ago and the internet is blazingly fast compared to Comcast wideband cable. On top of that, the FIOS tech told me they were going to bump up my connection speed from 5/2 to 10/2 or possibly 10/5 in the next couple of weeks at no extra cost. The other internet packages were also increasing in speed over what they now are. I was previously paying $57.95 per month for internet with Comcast.

I signed up for all three packages at once to get the discount. We already had Verizon phone service but what I didn't know was that the FIOS phone service included unlimited local AND long distance calling for a fixed price that was comparable to what I was already paying for just local calls. I called up AT&T and dropped my long distance service so I saved anywhere from $15-40 additional each month just by switching to FIOS phone service.

My DirecTV bill was costing me over $100 per month with Total Choice Plus & locals, HBO, HD access, two standard receivers, DVR service, one SD DTivo, and three HDTivos. I just dropped all but one HDTivo and then reduced my package down to the Family Plan via the DTV website @ $29.95 per month. My monthly cost dropped from about $108 to less than $60. I had been using my HDTivos primarily for recording OTA HD programming so it just seemed silly to keep paying DTV so I could get free TV from another source. 

I built a HTPC just for the purpose of recoding OTA programming. The initial investment was a bit steep but selling off my HDTivos will more than pay for it. I also picked up a S3 HD Tivo to use with FIOS along with two cable cards @ $2.95 each per month. I got a three year Tivo service plan for the same cost as two years which works out to something like $8.41 per month for the Tivo service. Add in the cost of the cable cards and I'm paying roughly about the same cost as I would for one of Verizon's HD DVRs. My HTPC has four ATSC tuners so I still have the same flexibility as I did before for recording HD programs. I rarely used the SD DTivo anymore and the HTPC and S3 Tivo can easily absorb whatever season passes I had set up on the DTivo.

I'm still in a commitment with DTV due to activating one of the HDTivos less than two years ago but I plan on eating the penalty and dropping DTV altogether. I believe the charge is something like $12.50 for each month I have left on my commitment, which will end up being less than what I'd pay DTV for one month's service based on my previous setup. They'll probably give me a hard time about reducing my account to less than Total Choice but I'll gladly pay the couple of weeks difference in the rate if they gripe about it.

I haven't tallied up what my total cost per month will be but when everything is taken into consideration I'm sure I'll come out ahead.

I also forgot to mention that the FIOS tech informed me that we'd be getting something like 50 more HD channels by the end of the year IIRC.


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

Captain_video....i would be interested in hearing the overall savings fro just the TV part of the switch. The phone and internet can not really be judged here since the topic is D* vs F*

Also it doesnt seem smart of Verizon to have launched this TV service with only 11 out of the 38 HD nationals in place, if they were truely interested in getting HD customers on board that is.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I've had 15Mbs FIOS internet for a year and it's so much better than I could've imagined. I've yet to experience an outage, and it's BLAZINGLY fast.

It's much faster than work, which is a shared T3.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> Captain_video....i would be interested in hearing the overall savings fro just the TV part of the switch. The phone and internet can not really be judged here since the topic is D* vs F*
> 
> Also it doesnt seem smart of Verizon to have launched this TV service with only 11 out of the 38 HD nationals in place, if they were truely interested in getting HD customers on board that is.


Here's a breakdown of services I have for FIOS vs. comparable services with DTV:

Verizon FIOS:

$42.99 FIOS TV Premiere package
$15.99 HBO
$4.99 Standard definition box
$4.99 Standard definition box
$9.99 High definition box
$2.95 Cablecard
$2.95 Cablecard
$8.31 Tivo Service
$93.16 Total monthly fees

DirecTV:

$59.99 Choice Plus (includes DVR service)
$13.00 HBO
$9.99 HD access
$4.95 Mirroring fee
$4.95 Mirroring fee
$4.95 Mirroring fee
$97.83 Total monthly fees

I didn't do a direct comparison between channel packages but I'm assuming the two are similar. I'll leave that to you to visit each website and compare the channel lineups. I based the comparison on one HD DVR, two standard definition boxes, and one HD box (non-DVR), and one premium channel (HBO) and miscellaneous fees applicable to both services that will allow me to obtain similar programming and options. I have an S3 HD Tivo and I purchased a 3-year plan for the Tivo service, which I broke down on a cost per month basis for comparison purposes. What I didn't include was my HTPC with four ATSC tuners that take the place of two HDTivos I recently deactivated on my DTV account. I have no monthly fees for recording OTA HD programming now vs. two additional mirroring fees I had been paying to DTV.

Note that with Verizon I get both Baltimore and Washington, DC, locals in HD. I also get numerous other features that DirecTV doesn't offer, such as VOD. Verizon charges extra for VOD service but I can access VOD for any channels I have a subscription to, such as HBO. There are also other features built into the box called widgets. This allows me to get up to the minute weather and traffic for any zip code around the country, among other things (I haven't explored all of them yet). I included the FIOS internet and phone service into the mix because I get an additional discount off my TV service for having all three.

Note also that I mentioned that Verizon is reportedly adding more HD channels to their lineup in the very near future. The best part is that I won't have to upgrade my hardware to get them, unlike with DirecTV. I'm also not locked into a commitment, although I did sign up for a year of one of the services (I forget which, but it's probably the phone service) to get an additional discount. When you consider that I knocked about $18 per month off my wideband internet bill and another $15-40 off my long distance bill, the total savings is much more attractive.


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

Captain_Video....Thanks for the reply. If FIOS does get the HD content they promised by the end of the year it sounds like a great deal. For a person tryin g to decide which one to go with from scratch, based on your figures I would have to say F*. But for someone that would have to pay cancel fees with D* they might be better to hold off. 

Thanks again for the info


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

FiOS also has one additional hurdle that doesn't affect DirecTV. In states like NJ (don't think this is nation-wide), cable companies are required to make cable boxes that aren't specific to one service. For example, I should be able to take my cable box from Comcast and go to FiOS. The point of the law was to allow consumers to buy their boxes, instead of having to lease them from the service provider. Comcast fought the law and lost. Verizon is doing the same, and is anticipating a loss as well. 

This puts a major crimp in their plans for expansion. Last year they said that their major issue was in getting franchises up and running around the country, while they were laying fiber. Now that they have many of those franchises in place, laws like this one hurts them because their technology is proprietary. Simply another example of unintended consequences resulting from good intentions. If Verizon's bid is rejected by the courts, then before they can offer service in NJ they'll have to figure out a way to comply with the law.

Services like DirecTV and Dish aren't affected since they're not classified as cable operators, whereas services like FiOS are.


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## directvfreak (Feb 1, 2006)

What is this modular that makes it like a cable channel? I know they make them for channel 3 and 4 but how about 5-69?



Sixto said:


> A few months ago, I gave this analysis MUCH thought. Compared Cable (w/Series3) to DirecTV (HR20) to FIOS. First installed Series3, then HR20, don't yet have FIOS option available (but did research).
> 
> After much back-and-forth analysis, decided (for now) that the best is D* HR20. Currently have HR20 and Series3 still running side-by-side.
> 
> ...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

directvfreak said:


> What is this modular that makes it like a cable channel? I know they make them for channel 3 and 4 but how about 5-69?


http://www.channelplus.com/product_detail.php?productId=98 or

http://www.channelplus.com/product_detail.php?productId=39 or


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

You can buy RF modulators for any UHF or VHF channel. They are readily available at a cheap price for channels 3 or 4 but start getting pricey for other channels. I think RatShack has one for about $20-30. They do make it easy to share video sources to other TVs around the house but you lose a lot in the process. You'll only get monaural audio in most cases (Dolby Digital is totally out of the question) and the video will be degraded from all of the modulation/demodulation that takes place at both ends. If the remote TVs are small screen sets the loss will probably be negligible.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

captain_video said:


> You can buy RF modulators for any UHF or VHF channel. They are readily available at a cheap price for channels 3 or 4 but start getting pricey for other channels. I think RatShack has one for about $20-30. They do make it easy to share video sources to other TVs around the house but you lose a lot in the process. You'll only get monaural audio in most cases (Dolby Digital is totally out of the question) and the video will be degraded from all of the modulation/demodulation that takes place at both ends. If the remote TVs are small screen sets the loss will probably be negligible.


Yeah, I got a four-input RF modulator for one TV from Radio Shack. Forget how much I paid, but it was pretty cheap. It's not for the main TV - an older one in the family room with no video inputs. This adapter even takes in S-video - although I don't see the difference between that and the standard yellow composite video - this TV is a piece of crap, although I DO notice the difference when I use the video output from the R15 vs the RF output. I have an R15 going into one of the video inputs on the adapter, and I have the RF output from the DVR going to the RF input on the adapter - so, no matter which input channel is selected on the adapter, I have the R15 video as a pass-through on the modulator. My kids use that TV for video games alot, and they have the RF adapter on the input channel for the PS2 most of the time. When I go down to watch that TV, it's on the PS2's input channel, and the picture and sound are REALLY crappy. Then I switch over to the input for the R15's S-video/composite audio inputs, and the picture clears up dramatically, and the sound gets much better. No, the TV's not stereo, but the sound is still much better when the input signal is from the composite audio. I notice a real improvement.

And switching inputs is really easy - it uses the old style radio buttons on the front to let you select the input channel.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

I have FIOS, but will keep DTV for a while. I have a pretty sweet cluster of 3 DTiVos with 160 MB or better drives in them. No HD, but I'm not there yet, maybe in the future.

The point is, the FIOS DVR is pretty weak compared to my current setup. I can record 6 programs at a time one a combined disk space of about 600 GB and watch the content on any of the 3 TVs. I can also access my DVRs through the web from anywhere.

I like the idea of the multi-room DVR, but they'll need to increase the tuner count to at least 4 and up the disk size considerably (500 GB or better) before I'll switch over. The web thing would be cake, but not a deal breaker.


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## compuz1 (Feb 3, 2007)

bnglbill said:


> Better than 6 mbps with Comcast?


20/5 here, and it's dedicated... Unlike Crapcast or Optimum Online which slows when people get home from work...

Never had a single outage and phone sounds so much better. If you use Vonage, as your speed is dedicated you don't have to worry about voice quality.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I just dropped DTV in favor of FIOS about 10 days ago. I have an S3 Tivo with two cablecards and an HTPC with four ATSC tuners and one NTSC tuner and I'm about to add another ATSC tuner. I get all of my local HD channels for free via OTA antenna and the HTPC records anything I want from them in HD. I use the S3 Tivo for recording the rest of the non-OTA channels. The difference in PQ between FIOS and DTV is night and day. I actually enjoy watching SD programs on my 60" HDTV again (although it's still not even close to HD).

I looked into the Verizon HD DVR and found it seriously lacking for my needs. It only has a 160GB drive and you can't operate more than one of them in a room without interfering with the operation of any other one (i.e., they only have one set of IR codes). The S3 Tivo was the perfect substitute and only costs about $1.26 more per month ($12.95 for the Verizon HD-DVR vs. $8.31 for the Tivo service + two cablecards @ $2.95 each). I can upgrade the hard drive for more capacity and I can add more S3 Tivos to the mix at a later time if I desire. 

There are zero monthly fees tied to the HTPC. I use Snapstream's BeyondTV 4.6 as the PVR software and I can access it via the web for remote scheduling of recordings. I can easily transfer recorded shows to any PC on my home network so there is zero hacking involved.


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## JVM (Feb 21, 2007)

"The difference in PQ between FIOS and DTV is night and day."

I was wondering about that. We don't have FIOS available yet, but nice to know their SD picture is superior to DTV. Can you comment on the difference between them with HD?


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## OneEyedWonder (Nov 29, 2006)

JVM said:


> "The difference in PQ between FIOS and DTV is night and day."
> 
> I was wondering about that. We don't have FIOS available yet, but nice to know their SD picture is superior to DTV. Can you comment on the difference between them with HD?


This is a big point for me too. Over the weekend I finally took the plunge and went out and got myself a 46" HDTV (it'll be here by friday).

I'm scheduled to D* come on 4/3 to upgrade my dish and bring me a HR20 (I got it for $99, but got $10/month credit for year and 4 months free of HD access, 9.95/month). Not to mention that D* has always been very good to me. I don't think I've ever paid for any of my DVRs, they've given me months of free programming, and coupons for free PPV. I honestly love the company.

I have had FiOS internet and phone for about 5 months. Love the speed of the net.

I'm really confused as to whether to switch. I currently have 3 DVR's (HDVR2, R10, and R15). I don't subscribe to sunday ticket or to EI, or any of the sports packs for that matter, so thats not a deal breaker.

I'm really concerned about PQ and content. I've read all about "HD Lite", and those who really don't have a problem with their D* HD PQ. D* coming out with more channels and MPEG-4, but I've also read where FiOS PQ is just so much better. The channel choices are almost identical to D*, so that just leaves me with PQ.

Is it THAT much better than D*??


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

skip the Verizon telephone service, go with Vonage, save yourself $30/month. That helps even up the $$$ aspect.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

I have vonage myself, since I have to use cox for my internet service and their phone prices are ridiculous. And it was hilarious...I called vonage just to see when my contract ended...and they said "here, why don't we give you till the end of your contract for free so you can decide if you want to stay with us."

That was six months ago almost


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

okietekkie said:


> I have vonage myself, since I have to use cox for my internet service and their phone prices are ridiculous. And it was hilarious...I called vonage just to see when my contract ended...and they said "here, why don't we give you till the end of your contract for free so you can decide if you want to stay with us."
> 
> That was six months ago almost


Vonage lost a MAJOR court decision on Friday. It will be interesting to see if they can survive as Verizon is trying to deliver the death blow to them right now.


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## JVM (Feb 21, 2007)

Why is there so much talk about phone service in this thread when the real issue is comparing picture quality of FIOS to DirecTV?

Isn't this a topic area for DirecTV -- and the question is DirecTV vs. FIOS???

Anyone care to comment on the HD quality of FIOS compared to DirecTV?


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

JVM said:


> Why is there so much talk about phone service in this thread when the real issue is comparing picture quality of FIOS to DirecTV?
> 
> Isn't this a topic area for DirecTV -- and the question is DirecTV vs. FIOS???
> 
> Anyone care to comment on the HD quality of FIOS compared to DirecTV?


Because one of the draws of verizon would be everything included in one deal...and phone happens to be part of it. I would test FIOS...if Verizon were even in Tulsa


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> I was wondering about that. We don't have FIOS available yet, but nice to know their SD picture is superior to DTV. Can you comment on the difference between them with HD?


I think the HD with Verizon definitely looks better. It's a full 1920x1080 vs 1280x1088 for DTV. I haven't checked the bitrates to see if Verizon is higher but I suspect it is. Perhaps "night and day" was a slight exaggeration with respect to SD on FIOS vs. DTV, but it's noticeably better. I'm using my S3 Tivo to watch the FIOS feed and my HTPC for everything else via OTA antenna. The picture quality on the S3 is better than what I'm used to seeing on my old HDTivos. The images are sharper and less grainy.


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## JVM (Feb 21, 2007)

captain_video said:


> I think the HD with Verizon definitely looks better. It's a full 1920x1080 vs 1280x1088 for DTV. I haven't checked the bitrates to see if Verizon is higher but I suspect it is. Perhaps "night and day" was a slight exaggeration with respect to SD on FIOS vs. DTV, but it's noticeably better. I'm using my S3 Tivo to watch the FIOS feed and my HTPC for everything else via OTA antenna. The picture quality on the S3 is better than what I'm used to seeing on my old HDTivos. The images are sharper and less grainy.


Thanks for the information. I look forward to when FIOS is available in my area. How about the HD DVR used by Verizon for FIOS?


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## OneEyedWonder (Nov 29, 2006)

captain_video said:


> I think the HD with Verizon definitely looks better. It's a full 1920x1080 vs 1280x1088 for DTV. I haven't checked the bitrates to see if Verizon is higher but I suspect it is. Perhaps "night and day" was a slight exaggeration with respect to SD on FIOS vs. DTV, but it's noticeably better. I'm using my S3 Tivo to watch the FIOS feed and my HTPC for everything else via OTA antenna. The picture quality on the S3 is better than what I'm used to seeing on my old HDTivos. The images are sharper and less grainy.


But did you ever see what the PQ was on an HR20 compared to the old HDTivos? Weren't they all MPEG-2, where the HR20 is MPEG-4? (i'm not as advanced on all these terms as most people are around here, so excuse me if that makes no sense).

I just really want to know, bottom line, is D* HD service that bad? I've heard from a very well respected member of this board that I "will not be disappointed".


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## funhouse69 (Mar 26, 2007)

I recently had FIOS Internet / Phone installed in my house. I would have went with TV but my town hasn't "Approved" the offering as of yet with no expected date of this happening and since I know how my town is (we got cable almost 10 years after everyone else did) I bit the bullet and upgraded to D* HD last week. That is another story that I've posted elsewhere on this site. 

I will however say that I've been involved with usability testing for Verizon over the years and some of the items I've tested were related to their FIOS offerings. In one of the tests I was comparing signal quality compared to other providers. Granted this was before FIOS was rolled out but the quality of the picture that I was seeing was insane. Their goal from day one was to offer a better picture in both SD and HD than all of their competitors as they have the bandwidth to do it. I now know several people that are happy FIOS customers and they tell me that the picture quality far surpasses Cable and the one person that had Sat said that it was even better then that. 

Just for reference my Internet is 20mb down and 5mb up and it has been rock solid since day one. As previously mentioned this is a point to point connection like DSL and not shared bandwidth like cable so I expect this stability to continue. The installer I talked to said that 100mb Down is in the very near future. I've read on another site that is already being offered in parts of NY for about the same money. 

Finally - When I ordered FIOS I ended up getting my Internet, Home Phone, Cell Phone and Direct TV all on one bill. For that "Bundle" they gave me a $100 gift card to Best Buy and almost $40 a month off of my stand alone pricing. So if you can't get the TV they have a deal with D* that they can take over the billing (and will NOT affect your account / contact in anyway) and save some $ which is always a good thing!


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> But did you ever see what the PQ was on an HR20 compared to the old HDTivos? Weren't they all MPEG-2, where the HR20 is MPEG-4? (i'm not as advanced on all these terms as most people are around here, so excuse me if that makes no sense).
> 
> I just really want to know, bottom line, is D* HD service that bad? I've heard from a very well respected member of this board that I "will not be disappointed".


I have not had the opportunity to audition an HR20, but I almost purchased one from Beach Audio after they were first introduced. DTV only offers four of my local HD channels in mpeg4 whereas I get 14 of them via OTA antenna and also on FIOS. DTV's current HD lineup is actually worse than FIOS when you add in all of the locals I can receive. I get locals from both Baltimore and DC whereas DTV will only provide the Baltimore locals. DTV is supposed to be adding up to 100 more HD channels but I have yet to see a list of what those channels might be. I was told by the FIOS installer that they would also be adding about 50 more HD channels in the upcoming months, but I haven't heard anything more about it since.

I can't complain about DirecTV's service as I think they have about the best customer service I've dealt with. My experience with customer retention was quite enjoyable when I cancelled service. My main beefs with DTV are that they require a commitment when activating new receivers and they require an upfront fee on certain equipment. No other service providers have such requirements AFAIK. I could call up and cancel FIOS today if I wanted to with no penalities. I told the CSR that their picture quality had diminished significantly over the past 5 years or so due to overcompression of the signal. She said I was the first to tell this.

The main reason I went with FIOS is that I had heard the picture quality was topnotch, I could use an S3 Tivo with it, I could finally sever all ties with Comcast and get FIOS internet, and I could bundle my existing Verizon phone service in with the total package to get a discount. I think for most people the FIOS internet is a no-brainer compared to other services so that's really just icing on the cake.

I wasn't ready to sign up for another 2-year commitment and lose many of the added features I've incorporated into my HDTivos, such as networking and video extraction. MY feeling about all the hype regarding the new HD channels is that I'll believe it when I see it. Right now I'm only hearing a lot of promises about new channels from all camps but there's not much info on what channels those might be. The way things have been going at DTV I'd half expect to see 50 new shopping networks and 50 new religious channels added in HD and nothing most of us really care about. They'll go with whatever will bring them the most revenue and not necessarily the most viewers. They don't have 100 channels in their current lineup that I'd actually watch so there's no telling what they'll add in HD. I'd rather have just 20 more HD channels if they were something that would appeal to me.

It's all about quality vs. quantity. 100 more channels of crap in HD is still crap IMHO. To be fair, most providers have basically the same channel lineups so it's not just limited to DTV. For some reason they think that the more channels they have the more customers they'll attract. I'd be perfectly content if they reduced their current lineup to a fraction of what they have if they just provided quality programming. The problem is that everyone has varied tastes so there's no way to provide a set lineup that will appeal to everyone. What appeals to me is of no interest to the next guy and vice versa. What I'd really like is the ability to choose my channels a la carte and pay a flat fee for a set number of channels. If any provider ever did that then you'd see people flock to them in droves.

FYI - Verizon also offers DirecTV service so you can get everything included on one bill. I wasn't aware that you could get Verizon Wireless included as well because they are a completely separate division from the other Verizon services.


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## whsbuss (Jan 21, 2003)

After being with DTV for almost 10 years, I will be moving to FiOS when available in my area. The new slimline dish needed to capture the new sats for HD is a total non-starter. My cousin recently upgraded to the new dish and its HUGH!! No way I will have it mounted on my house (don't do roof installations under any circumstances). The wind load on that sucker must be overwhelming.

DTV has been great but bandwidth via sats is a somewhat limiting factor, thus the compressions even at MPEG-4. What happens when even more content is needed. Do we need to get an even larger dish, or may two?

For now I'm staying pat with my HDTivo. We shall see what DTV offers in HD later this year. I'm sure cable and FiOS will follow with a similar HD offering, although I suspect FiOS will only have to make the content available on their current network. Cable still has to deal with wideband bandwidth issues.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

The AT9 dish and its variants shouldn't be all that much larger than the Phase III dish. The two new satellite locations are within the existing arc so in theory you could add the extra LNBs to a Phase III dish. The new dish probably has a slightly reduced arc to enable the positioning of the new LNBs between the existing ones, resulting in a slightly larger footprint for the dish surface. I've got one of the earlier AT9 dishes but I never got around to installing it, mainly because Verizon activated FIOS and I decided to go with them instead of switching to mpeg4 with DirecTV.


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## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

As much as i've read about FiOS and it's competitor, AT&T's U-Verse, sadly I don't look for either service in Iowa, if at all and Iowa is a state that could greatly use the competition. Qwest and a local teleco, Iowa Telecom, has a stranglehold on providing telephone service in Iowa.

If and that's a big if Verizon and AT&T would start local phone service in Iowa, it would be a step in the right direction.


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## JVM (Feb 21, 2007)

whsbuss said:


> After being with DTV for almost 10 years, I will be moving to FiOS when available in my area. The new slimline dish needed to capture the new sats for HD is a total non-starter. My cousin recently upgraded to the new dish and its HUGH!! No way I will have it mounted on my house (don't do roof installations under any circumstances). The wind load on that sucker must be overwhelming.


Excellent point, and one that I never considered. Bigger and bigger is a possibility, along with concerns for my roof. Unfortunately I don't have FIOS available yet, but I am certainly looking forward to having it.


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

whsbuss said:


> The new slimline dish needed to capture the new sats for HD is a total non-starter. My cousin recently upgraded to the new dish and its HUGH!! No way I will have it mounted on my house (don't do roof installations under any circumstances). The wind load on that sucker must be overwhelming.


Oh Please... get a grip. It's not that big, I had a 24" round dish on my roof for 5 years without a problem and this has about the same surface area, and it has a bigger more stable base than my old dish.


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