# All-American Muslim on TLC



## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/all-american-muslim


> Premieres Nov. 13 @ 10/9c
> 
> All-American Muslim takes a look at life in Dearborn, Michigan--home to the largest mosque in the United States--through the lens of five Muslim American families.
> 
> Each episode offers an intimate look at the customs and celebrations, misconceptions and conflicts these families face outside and within their own community.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/...muslim-a-look-at-five-very-different-families


> There was a time before Jersey Shore, before Toddlers & Tiaras, before Dance Moms, when it seemed like unscripted television might be used for good. It goes all the way back to the time when the Louds were profiled on PBS's An American Family, but more recently when Pedro Zamora died of AIDS the day after the airing of his last episode of MTV's The Real World. Television is powerful, and while that's most often said with a shake of the head, now and then, it can be said with some satisfaction, and that's the way it feels to watch TLC's All-American Muslim.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

I've seen a lot of promos for this, and that woman that says "to educate people like you" really turns my stomach. For one, it's a racist comment. Two, I'm not alone when i say that I couldn't give 2 quick squirts about Muslims. 

I'd be really happy if Muslims just went about being Muslim and stopped trying to make me and everyone else understand them. 

I won't be watching.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

dualsub2006 said:


> I'd be really happy if Muslims just went about being Muslim and stopped trying to make me and everyone else understand them.


Funny, I feel the same way about Christians.

It could be an interesting watch, but I won't be recording it. Perhaps if I catch it while it's on I'll see if it's any good.

As a rule, however, I tend to shy away from any "Reality" show. Be it about snobby young men and women in Jersey, Toddlers, Trucks, Tattoos, Motorcycles, Fish, etc. I believe this show is also included in the list.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Hopefully, the show will open some people's eyes about Muslims in America. Our country is all about religious freedom and Muslims are often misunderstood, especially after 9-11. Having a couple Muslim friends in college, including a fraternity brother, it's amazing how much persecution they endure just because of their beliefs.

I recommend, to others who maybe interested, to check out the movie 'Mooz-Lum' on Netflix or Starz. It's written and directed by another fraternity brother, Qasim Basir, about his experience.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

Mooz-Lum was a good movie. This is no in-depth documentary on the American Muslim community of course, but should be fun. And I never watch reality TV, but set this one to record.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

dualsub2006 said:


> I've seen a lot of promos for this, and that woman that says "to educate people like you" really turns my stomach. For one, it's a racist comment. Two, I'm not alone when i say that I couldn't give 2 quick squirts about Muslims.
> 
> I'd be really happy if Muslims just went about being Muslim and stopped trying to make me and everyone else understand them.
> 
> I won't be watching.


And there, in a nutshell, is why so many people the world over dis-like Americans.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> I've seen a lot of promos for this, and that woman that says "to educate people like you" really turns my stomach. For one, it's a racist comment. Two, I'm not alone when i say that I couldn't give 2 quick squirts about Muslims.
> 
> I'd be really happy if Muslims just went about being Muslim and stopped trying to make me and everyone else understand them.
> 
> I won't be watching.


Complaining about something being racist wrapped in an extremely prejudiced comment loses all credibility. :nono2:


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"SayWhat?" said:


> And there, in a nutshell, is why so many people the world over dis-like Americans.


Why? Because I want them to be free to be who they are without having to spend time trying to understand their faith?

My Neighbor is a Methodist. It doesn't hinder our relationship in the least because he goes about his life and I go about mine.

Muslims in this country should be free to practice their religion and live their lives as they see fit. I shouldn't have to adjust my life to accommodate theirs. If I'm a racist, so be it.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

I'll watch it. I always find learning new things interesting. Hopefully this show will be interesting.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> Why? Because I want them to be free to be who they are without having to spend time trying to understand their faith?
> 
> My Neighbor is a Methodist. It doesn't hinder our relationship in the least because he goes about his life and I go about mine.
> 
> Muslims in this country should be free to practice their religion and live their lives as they see fit. I shouldn't have to adjust my life to accommodate theirs. If I'm a racist, so be it.


The reason your neighbor can go about his life is because there aren't racists preventing it, like there are with Muslims. Muslims often don't have that option. Don't you think they'd prefet to be left alone to practice their beliefs in peace?

So many people forget that Muslim is a religion, not a race.

It's amazing that when a terrorist is Muslim, that's all that is talked about. But when it is a white Christian from Norway, religion is never mentioned.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

If some muslim wants to speak his mind and "educate people like us" what's wrong with dualsub2006 speaking his mind?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Not bad. I'll watch it next week.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"hilmar2k" said:


> The reason your neighbor can go about his life is because there aren't racists preventing it, like there are with Muslims. Muslims often don't have that option. Don't you think they'd prefet to be left alone to practice their beliefs in peace?.


I actually never said that his whole life is peaceful, just his relationship with me. I've never asked about other's reactions to the color of his skin. I feel it's none of my business.

And I do think that Muslims want to be left alone, that's why I don't bother them. Or the Methodists or the Catholics or the Baptists or anyone else.

So, we agree. Muslims want to be left alone and should be left alone. Not too sure that this show is really gonna help further that goal.

We'll see though, maybe I'm wrong. My daughter used the awesome D* remote scheduling app from school to record it. Maybe I'll watch it with her.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

MysteryMan said:


> If some muslim wants to speak his mind and "educate people like us" what's wrong with dualsub2006 speaking his mind?


Excellent question


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> Each and every day military members die fighting so YOU can live freely,


What they're doing over there has nothing at all to do with anybody over here living free. It's all about money and filling the coffers of the defense contractors.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Wow there seems to be a lot of animosity here as I seem to be the only one posting about the show.

It anything, this animosity definitely proves the show is needed.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

The first episodes recorded at midnight last night (too many conflicts as it is on Sunday night). Will watch later. Sounds like people are commenting here without having seen it.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

I have no fundamental problem with a show like this...

...but can you imagine a show dedicated to dispelling misconceptions about Christianity? On a mainstream cable channel? A show that non-Christians might call "eye-opening" or "interesting"?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

renbutler said:


> I have no fundamental problem with a show like this...
> 
> ...but can you imagine a show dedicated to dispelling misconceptions about Christianity? On a mainstream cable channel? A show that non-Christians might call "eye-opening" or "interesting"?


Like "19 Kids and Counting?"


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

TV is full of those kind of shows.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Wow surprised this thread hasn't been closed. I am not watching because I don't watch any reality TV except the first 48. I don't need to see the trials and tribulations of any family regardless of their religious beliefs. Every family (even those so called 1%) have problems, why highlight one specific group? Why not highlight the Jewish families and their problems of being hated. If any culture has been hated going back to the start of recorded history it's the Jews. I am sure that if there was such a show it would be blasted by all sources of media, why because people hate Jews. I would sympathize more over the Jews than I would Muslims, Ever hear of the Holocaust? 6 million Jews killed just because of their religion, and to this day Muslims say the Holocaust never happened. Sundays at 10 pm I will be watching Dexter or The walking dead, why because that is more entertaining than what some Muslim family is going through. If all American Muslims wanted to capture the true essence of hatred toward Muslims then they should have found a Muslim family in the bible belt and followed them around. I mean really how much adversity does a Muslim family face in Dearborn MI? One of the largest populations of Muslims in this country.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

There are numerous programs on History and other such channels dedicated to the Holocaust and WWII in general. I myself have several on DVD.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Like "19 Kids and Counting?"


If there were five kids in that Christian family, they wouldn't have a show.

That is, the religion of the family is not the entire point of the show.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> TV is full of those kind of shows.


...such as...

(I assume you were responding to me?)


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

_I am not watching because I don't watch any reality TV except the first 48._

Same here. Add COPS and a couple of other REAL reality shows, not scripted farces.

As to the rest of your post --- History Channel.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

renbutler said:


> ...such as...


Too many to list.

There are even dedicated channels.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Too many to list.
> 
> There are even dedicated channels.


Okay, then just one or two. I believe you that there might actually be an answer. I just can't think of any myself.

And I said _mainstream _cable channels, BTW.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

pablo said:


> There are numerous programs on History and other such channels dedicated to the Holocaust and WWII in general. I myself have several on DVD.


That is fine and dandy but that part of my post was to highlight the struggles of the Jewish population of the world, they are and have been hated for centuries and i don't see any shows called all American Jews. Just goes to show the hypocrisy of a show called all American Muslims. :nono:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

renbutler said:


> If there were five kids in that Christian family, they wouldn't have a show.
> 
> That is, the religion of the family is not the entire point of the show.


I've watched a few episodes and their religious beliefs are constantly highlighted and talked about.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> I've watched a few episodes and their religious beliefs are constantly highlighted and talked about.


The show is about a family with 19 children. If that family happens to be made up of fundamentalist Christians, obviously that will be part of the show. In other words, if you want to make a show about this family with 19 children, there's no way to get around their religion. Similarly, the show also talks a lot about Arkansas, but it's not a show about Arkansas.

Anyway, even if the show discusses their Christianity, it is not dedicated to "dispelling misconceptions about Christianity."


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Another thread about a TV showed filled with thread crapping. Follow the rules, people. It's just a show, if you don't want to watch it, fine...no one is forcing you. We don't need a diatribe of how hypocritical a show is and what you will be watching.

Rules: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=108397


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

renbutler said:


> The show is about a family with 19 children. If that family happens to be made up of fundamentalist Christians, obviously that will be part of the show. In other words, if you want to make a show about this family with 19 children, there's no way to get around their religion. Similarly, the show also talks a lot about Arkansas, but it's not a show about Arkansas.
> 
> Anyway, even if the show discusses their Christianity, it is not dedicated to "dispelling misconceptions about Christianity."


Well, this show is trying to dispell misconceptions. So what? If you feel there needs to be a show dispelling misconceptions about Christianity, pitch it to a network. Although, there's clearly more misconceptions about Muslims than Christians.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Another thread about a TV showed filled with thread crapping. Follow the rules, people. It's just a show, if you don't want to watch it, fine...no one is forcing you. We don't need a diatribe of how hypocritical a show is and what you will be watching.
> 
> Rules: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=108397


Just for reference, can you please point out which posts are specifically in violation of the rules? On other message boards, I've found that ambiguity only leads to more problems.

I hope you don't believe my posts were in violation, because I didn't say anything negative about the Muslim show (I don't care about it either way), and all my points were about programming.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

renbutler said:


> Just for reference, can you please point out which posts are specifically in violation of the rules? On other message boards, I've found that ambiguity only leads to more problems.
> 
> I hope you don't believe my posts were in violation, because I didn't say anything negative about the Muslim show (I don't care about it either way), and all my points were about programming.


It's not up to me to determine what violates the rules. It's just disturbing to see people jump on a show because it's focusing on Muslims. Shows focus on all different groups of people...Some do a good job and some don't. It's just weird to me that whenever a show or channel has a focus on a minority, it gets flipped into a "what about {insert group}."

The show isn't about opening people's eyes as much as it's about ratings. Will it succeed? Who knows? Viewers like me enjoy seeing in the lives of others. Sometimes, it has a positive affect and opens someone's eyes and that's a good thing.

Regarding your notion of showcasing Christianity on a major network. What about The 700 Club on ABC Family? Or Joel Osteen on MANY networks?


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> It's just disturbing to see people jump on a show because it's focusing on Muslims.


Agreed.



sigma1914 said:


> Viewers like me enjoy seeing in the lives of others. Sometimes, it has a positive affect and opens someone's eyes and that's a good thing.


I'd be more willing to watch it if the promos didn't have a "we're here -- deal with it" attitude. The promos make it look like there's an agenda instead of addressing the topic neutrally.



sigma1914 said:


> Regarding your notion of showcasing Christianity on a major network. What about The 700 Club on ABC Family? Or Joel Osteen on MANY networks?


It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that those shows are self-produced and aired on a time buy. AFC Family goes out of its way to say that the 700 Club does not represent the net's views. I know because I watch a lot of Whose Line at midnight ET and catch the last two minutes of 700 Club.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I guess I've missed those promos. I just watched a few clips that really peaked my interest. Specifically, the coach and football team with what they endure from opposing teams & fans. (I'm aware of mistreatment towards Christian schools and that's also sickening.) Also, how they deal with Ramadan and not eating or drinking during sunlight...That's physically challenging to an athlete.

Other clips all seem to be a more "this is who we are, we're just like you with everyday life but have different beliefs. We're not all terrorists and hate American." I've also noticed it's like we mentioned earlier about the Duggers..."If that family happens to be made up of fundamentalist Christians, obviously that will be part of the show. In other words, if you want to make a show about this family with 19 children, there's no way to get around their religion. Similarly, the show also talks a lot about Arkansas, but it's not a show about Arkansas." This show is about different families who happen to be Muslim.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

I wonder what the people lambasting this series thought about The Russian Dolls on Lifetime, another series focusing on an American minority.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm wondering what the hook will be. Reality TV has always got a hook, some sort of conflict that keeps viewers coming back next week to see what shenanigans are in store. What's the hook on this? If it's about a typical American family who happen to have a different belief system than most Americans, I could see it getting boring pretty fast. I'm sure they'll face their fair share of adversity, but overall I don’t see how this will really draw the viewer in.

I mean, I already exist in a typical American family. Why would I want to watch the same thing on TV?

I hope it does well, we could use an "honest" reality TV show that could possibly open a few eyes, but I really don't see it happening. I also stick by my previous "I'll watch it if I catch it on" caveat.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Other clips all seem to be a more "this is who we are, we're just like you with everyday life but have different beliefs. We're not all terrorists and hate American."


That's a completely valid point to make, but I really doubt the people who really need to hear that message will watch it, particularly based on the promos. I'm not saying that makes it a pointless show -- I'm just saying that the point has already been made many times in the last ten years. Perhaps there will be something in the show that casts new light on the issue.



sigma1914 said:


> This show is about different families who happen to be Muslim.


The show has "Muslim" in the title. The religion of the families is not happenstance.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lucavex said:


> I'm wondering what the hook will be. Reality TV has always got a hook, some sort of conflict that keeps viewers coming back next week to see what shenanigans are in store. What's the hook on this? If it's about a typical American family who happen to have a different belief system than most Americans, I could see it getting boring pretty fast. I'm sure they'll face their fair share of adversity, but overall I don't see how this will really draw the viewer in.
> 
> I mean, I already exist in a typical American family. Why would I want to watch the same thing on TV?
> 
> I hope it does well, we could use an "honest" reality TV show that could possibly open a few eyes, but I really don't see it happening. I also stick by my previous "I'll watch it if I catch it on" caveat.


I think it's like other TLC reality shows...less over the top BS drama like the Housewives series and Bravo shows...and more laid back. There's multiple families, like a coach and his family, a couple where the woman is Muslim and her fiance is a Catholic converting to Islam, another family who has a baby coming and the husband is like a government agent, and a family with a cop.

It seems more like Little People, Big World and The Little Couple. Make sense? :lol:


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Lucavex said:


> I'm wondering what the hook will be. Reality TV has always got a hook, some sort of *conflict that keeps viewers coming back* next week to see what shenanigans are in store. What's the hook on this? If it's about a typical American family who happen to have a different belief system than most Americans, I could see it getting boring pretty fast. I'm sure they'll face their fair share of adversity, but overall I don't see how this will really draw the viewer in.
> 
> I mean, I already exist in a typical American family. Why would I want to watch the same thing on TV?
> 
> I hope it does well, we could use an "honest" reality TV show that could possibly open a few eyes, but I really don't see it happening. I also stick by my previous "I'll watch it if I catch it on" caveat.


Think I have that. There's an Irish Catholic in the mix with the Irish Mom. Need I say more?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I personally think what they're trying to do is great. Its good to show Muslim families in America can be just like any average family. But after the last 30 years of Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, I think an average family is a mess anyway. Who would want to watch it without a good comedy script like "Modern Family"?


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I can sympathize with shows like this.

You have trouble with Muslims wanting to throw a little education out there? Let me give you some of my experience.

My ex-wife was and is pagan. In point of fact, she further identifies herself as Wiccan - as in being a Witch. You want to talk about *stereotypes*? Try being Wiccan. A huge number of Christians will then label you as a Satanist, regardless of the fact that Wiccans don't believe Satan even EXISTS.

We used to connect to bulleting boards through a board hosted in Londonderry, NH since that was a local call. The owner of that board was Christian. At one point he actually said that the only thing keeping him from burning my wife alive was the civil law against killing someone. I *wish* I was making this up. (Needless to say we found another way to connect to the BBS system)

So, yeah, when there's a religious minority that wants to debunk some rumors and throw a little bit of the light of truth on a matter; I'm in favor of it.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

djlong said:


> I can sympathize with shows like this.
> 
> You have trouble with Muslims wanting to throw a little education out there? Let me give you some of my experience.
> 
> ...


I think you're doing fine until the part in bold there. Why only a religious _minority_? Do you not have any issues with falsehoods spoken about majority Christians?

I know that, as a Catholic, I am often lumped in with the most rabid fundamentalist Christian groups. There might be more misconceptions about Catholics than about any other religious group in the entire country. (Oddly, many of those misconceptions come from other Christians, some of whom don't even acknowledge Catholics as Christians.)


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> I know that, as a Catholic, I am often lumped in with the most rabid fundamentalist Christian groups.


Don't even get me started on the atrocities and human rights violations committed by the Roman Catholic Church. History, not religion. And it goes back many centuries.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Don't even get me started on the atrocities and human rights violations committed by the Roman Catholic Church. History, not religion. And it goes back many centuries.


*sigh*

As if to prove my point.

I didn't commit any atrocities or human rights violations. Thus, what you said has absolutely _nothing_ to do with how I live my life, and how hundreds of millions of people live their lives, as Catholics in 2011. You see, this is no different than what is endured by Muslims, Jews, or any number of mainly peaceful and faithful mainstream groups. So maybe Catholics really DO need their own show on a mainstream cable network to clear up the myriad myths about Catholicism. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the kinds of things I face.

Thanks for the vivid (and likely unintentional) illustration of the main gist of this discussion.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

I have no intention of watching this show. Not because I am anti-muslim but rather because this type of show does not interest me.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

fluffybear said:


> I have no intention of watching this show. Not because I am anti-muslim but rather because this type of show does not interest me.


Same for me.

Here is one Muslim's opinion of the show for those that do watch.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

klang said:


> Same for me.
> 
> Here is one Muslim's opinion of the show for those that do watch.


:lol: This part from the article was funny:



> There's a Muslim cop who insecurely reiterates his patriotism every 10 seconds. I'm surprised he doesn't sleep in American flag pajamas and that his cell phone ringtone isn't a Toby Keith song.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

SayWhat? said:


> Don't even get me started on the atrocities and human rights violations committed by the Roman Catholic Church. History, not religion. And it goes back many centuries.


Boy, you've got that right. After all, there are a large number of terrorist training camps the world over run by Roman Catholics where fanatics are trained to murder with the intent of causing as many civilian casulties as possible. And of course, Roman Catholics were responsible for all those suicide (homicide) bombers. Roman Catholics have people working on shoe bombs, underwear bombs, toner cartridge bombs, and juice-bottle bombs, not to mention dirty nuclear bombs. Let's not forget the open calls to assisnate people like Salman Rushdie, where tens of thousands came out demanding his execution, and even though he survived, a half dozen people loosly associated with the project were assassinated. Those darned Roman Catholics. Oh, and I just remembered, there is a Roman Catholic fatwa condemning the United States as the Great Satan, and calling all the faithful to work to overthrow the nation.

Yeah, I can understand why peace loving Roman Catholics are misunderstood given the body of evidence against them. It's a shame. Maybe they should be cleaning their own house so no one would have cause to accuse them? Then they wouldn't have need of "we're normal" propoganda.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, let's reel it in. A lot.

Mr. AV Guy, I realize you're being facetious to make a point. But this sort of talk doesn't belong on this forum. Let me quote forum rules to the assembled readership:



> (t) No posts or threads of a controversial nature are allowed such as those involving politics, sex, race and religion.


Let's talk about the show, let's not get into a discussion of comparative religion.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: This part from the article was funny:


Actually, I can see why he is a stand-up comedian. He was really funny!! I enjoyed his take on the show and the life of an "actual" Muslim American.

Maybe he'll follow up on his own words and get his show onto TLC.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK, let's reel it in. A lot.
> 
> Mr. AV Guy, I realize you're being facetious to make a point. But this sort of talk doesn't belong on this forum. Let me quote forum rules to the assembled readership:
> 
> Let's talk about the show, let's not get into a discussion of comparative religion.


I agree that AV Guy's rant was out of place. But you gotta admit, Say What? was out of line too by provoking that kind of rant.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

renbutler said:


> I think you're doing fine until the part in bold there. Why only a religious _minority_? Do you not have any issues with falsehoods spoken about majority Christians?
> 
> I know that, as a Catholic, I am often lumped in with the most rabid fundamentalist Christian groups. There might be more misconceptions about Catholics than about any other religious group in the entire country. (Oddly, many of those misconceptions come from other Christians, some of whom don't even acknowledge Catholics as Christians.)


Ren, you're right. I was too narrow in my statement. (Although, technically, ALL religions are minorities since there isn't one that has 50.1% of the population).

I have issues with people who are overzealous about eliminating Christmas references just as I have issues with people who make up persecution stories (The War On Christmas!).

Being an ex-Catholic, I'm aware of much of what you're talking about, though I didn't personally experience a lot of it. I should mention that, while I have extreme feelings towards the heirarchy of the Church, I bear NO animosity towards members (who were, most often, the victims).

I apologize for giving you the wrong impression - my fault.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK, let's reel it in. A lot.
> 
> Mr. AV Guy, I realize you're being facetious to make a point. But this sort of talk doesn't belong on this forum.
> .
> ...





renbutler said:


> I agree that AV Guy's rant was out of place. But you gotta admit, Say What? was out of line too by provoking that kind of rant.


Okay, I apologize. I will to the topic of the show. As a person brought up Roman Catholic, I get a bit sensitive to comments about The Inquisition and The Crusades, which happened centuries ago.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

Church AV Guy said:


> Okay, I apologize. I will to the topic of the show. As a person brought up Roman Catholic, I get a bit sensitive to comments about The Inquisition and The Crusades, which happened centuries ago.


Some might not stop there, citing more modern topics such as the pedophilia scandal and invented stuff about suppressing women. But even though the pedophilia scandal was a great stain for the Church, some would still like to pretend that it's scope was greater than it actually was. Only a tiny fraction of priests were ever implicated in the abuse cases, and almost all of them happened more than a decade before the scandal broke.

That's NOT to diminish any case of child abuse and their cover-ups -- indeed every case is *horrendous and inexcusable*. People just need to place the true scope of the abuse (number of cases, number of perps, etc.) into perspective. Very few Catholics, out of 1 billion worldwide, have been directly involved as a perp or a victim. The mistakes and sins of the few do not delegitimize the holy works of the many.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

djlong said:


> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression - my fault.




No problem.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

An ideology is "the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group." Xenophobia relates to being "unreasonably fearful of or hating anyone or anything foreign or strange."

Describing oneself as an American Muslim or an American Christian or an American Secular Relativist is a double ideological statement of identity potentially fraught with xenophobic implications.

Unfortunately, people tend to create such belief systems creating "group" identities that in the end justify xenophobic attitudes while still believing they are nice people. As somebody once commented "even Hitler liked children and dogs."

The show that is the topic of this thread and the discussion in this thread raise some "personal responsibility" questions related to group ideology and xenophobia that became a very big issue in the 20th Century. The issue goes something like this:

If you belong to a local Rotary Club, you contribute your money, reputation and influence, and time in support for its local, national, and international, operations and charities. You believe you are doing "good works." But then some Rotarians in several locations across the world use the organization's resources - the name and reputation, combined influence, and even some of its monies - to do things you don't approve of, things that you think are morally wrong. At what point does your continued participation in your local Rotary Club become tacit acceptance of what those other Rotarians are doing?​
Obviously I'm using Rotary to make a point. But this discussion was extended to include the activities and citizens of the nations of Germany and Japan caught up in a broad xenophobia in the first half of the 20th Century. It raises difficult questions because Germans, for instance, paid taxes that supported atrocities. Did that make all German taxpayers responsible for what we now assign vaguely to "Nazi's". The questions raised include:

At what point does lack of active resistance to evil constitute guilt by virtue of continued association with a group?
Can the ignorance _choice_ free you of responsibility for what is obviously being perpetrated by your "group"?
Can you be a member of a group like the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and not share responsibility for what atrocities other members commit?
Do the good, charitable acts associated with a formal group of people balance out the evil done by others in the name of the group?
When does believing something is good justify harming others (this is how all wars are justified, including defensive wars)?
More to the point of this show, where does responsibility begin and end for "ordinary good people" who are members of extremely large worldwide organized religions, most of which at various times, have some members committing evil xenophobic acts in the name of, or hiding behind, the religion (i.e. Catholic and Protestant in Ireland, Shia and Sunni in the Middle East, Hindu and Muslim in the Indian Subcontinent)?
These are tough issues. Are there ideological and xenophobic implications in identity? If I call myself a Secular Relativist Californian, does that make you feel somewhat alienated from me?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

renbutler said:


> Only a tiny fraction of priests were ever implicated in the abuse cases, and almost all of them happened more than a decade before the scandal broke.


Including the Pope himself, before he was elevated. He was in a position where he was directly responsible for some of the coverup.

As for the show in question, I don't watch reality shows, so the whole thing is irrelevant to me.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

renbutler said:


> Some might not stop there, citing more modern topics such as the pedophilia scandal and invented stuff about suppressing women. But even though the pedophilia scandal was a great stain for the Church, some would still like to pretend that it's scope was greater than it actually was. Only a tiny fraction of priests were ever implicated in the abuse cases, and almost all of them happened more than a decade before the scandal broke.
> 
> That's NOT to diminish any case of child abuse and their cover-ups -- indeed every case is *horrendous and inexcusable*. People just need to place the true scope of the abuse (number of cases, number of perps, etc.) into perspective. Very few Catholics, out of 1 billion worldwide, have been directly involved as a perp or a victim. The mistakes and sins of the few do not delegitimize the holy works of the many.


Okay, STILL off topic, and I'm sorry, but...

I couldn't agree with this post more strongly. In any large hierarchical organization, the Catholic church, the U.S. congress, (University atletic departments) etc. will have cases of abuses, and cover-ups. When the Church's abuse scandal hit the news, my heart sank because I unfortunately realized that this had undoubtedly been going on for centuries, and only now has it come to light. 

There is a place for these pedophile priests--JAIL! They don't get, or deserve a pass because of their vocation. If anything, they deserve a more severe judgement.

As far as the show goes, the second episode has shown, or is showing today, and I haven't even had a chance to see the first episode yet. Does anyone know how many episodes are planned?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Church AV Guy said:


> . . . .
> 
> As far as the show goes, the second episode has shown, or is showing today, and I haven't even had a chance to see the first episode yet. Does anyone know how many episodes are planned?


The second show is Sunday, 10 PM EST, Ch 280.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> ...As far as the show goes, the second episode has shown, or is showing today, and I haven't even had a chance to see the first episode yet. Does anyone know how many episodes are planned?





Drucifer said:


> The second show is Sunday, 10 PM EST, Ch 280.


You are correct. When I entered the season pass for the show, it wasn't yet on the schedule, so I put in a keyword search for "All American Muslim" and I got a second show recorded early. It wasn't the second episode of the series, it was a local talk show whose subject was the show "All American Muslim" so my keyword search caught it and put it in the same folder. I saw the folder had two programs in it and I mistakenly thought that the second episode had already been shown.

Again, does any one know how many episodes are planned?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Church AV Guy said:


> ...
> Again, does any one know how many episodes are planned?


I think 8.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/all-american-muslim/


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

If your link is correct, eight is the number. Thanks.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

*Lowe's explanation for pulling 'All-American Muslim' ad would be high comedy if premise weren't so sad*



> If you ever wondered what the corporate version of a babbling idiot sounds like, read the statement issued by Lowe's explaining the home improvement giant's decision to pull its advertising from the TLC reality show "_All-American Muslim_."
> 
> . . . .


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-sad-article-1.990400?localLinksEnabled=false

A perfect example of what this show is about.

And don't forget to look at the NY Daily News poll.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Lowes is a joke. Glad there is a Home Depot across the street from almost every one.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...practicing-witchcraft-report-article-1.990253

Oops.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

njblackberry said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...practicing-witchcraft-report-article-1.990253
> 
> Oops.


And this relates to the show how?


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

If people are going to bring up events that happened hundreds of years ago to show how one religion is or isn't better than another, how about a CURRENT DAY example about how one religion treats its own people.

I realize that isn't PC but it is found in todays news. I wonder how the people shown in the TV show feel about this? Is this typical? Or not American Muslim?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

njblackberry said:


> If people are going to bring up events that happened hundreds of years ago to show how one religion is or isn't better than another, how about a CURRENT DAY example about how one religion treats its own people.
> 
> I realize that isn't PC but it is found in todays news. I wonder how the people shown in the TV show feel about this? Is this typical? Or not American Muslim?


Well, considering it's in Saudi Arabia ... no it's not American Muslim. Christians kill each other every day, including through the death penalty in our country...still this has nothing to do with the TV show.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Christians kill each other every day...


I don't believe that's factual.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

renbutler said:


> I don't believe that's factual.


As many murders, deaths and executions that occur you don't think that at least 1 per day is a Christian killing another Christian?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I would say by the hundreds every day if you include the North America, South America and Europe.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

I actually ended up watching this past Sunday's episode, the one where the "to educate people like you" comment was made. She very much seems like the over bearing, self centered personality that I assumed she was, but that's really not the point.

The point, to me, seems to be that the show is more about the Muslim families learning to accept their own family members for who they are, not about the larger society accepting them.

In one family 8 year old girls are wearing the scarf, while the father sits on the couch with 30+ year old Muslim women NOT wearing the scarf. I don't recall him saying anything negative about those women, but he didn't seem all that accepting of them either.

There were other things that I picked up on, but it's kind of pointless. After seeing 1 of however many episodes, I get the impression that these families have enough internal issues to worry about.

And the guy that converted to the Muslim faith that had to give up his dog? If I were allergic to my wife's Chihuahua and it came down to me or him, I'm sure she'd help me pack my stuff into my truck.

The article that was posted earlier was really great. Not knowing all of the facts, it at least seems to be spot on.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> As many murders, deaths and executions that occur you don't think that at least 1 per day is a Christian killing another Christian?


Ah, so you're just _guessing_.

Anyway, the link was about execution for religious purposes by an Islamic government. That's quite a bit different than a few dozen executions per year (usually specifically of murderers only) by secular governments such as in the US. Roman Catholicism opposes the death penalty in virtually every situation, and the taking of another life is not allowable in mainstream Christianity. If a Christian takes the life of another Christian, it is not supported by Christianity, let alone endorsed by a non-existent Christian government.

Now, did the link really belong in this thread? Possibly not. But the response to it was not very well considered.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK... back to discussing the show, not the religious topics that surround it, thanks.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

I think whom ever created this show was a freaking genius. Just google the show and see the millions of hits that come up. I do not know what the ratings are and wonder if this show is one of the highest rated shows on TLC. If it is then the network is doing what they are supposed to be doing making money. I liken it to Howard Stern he had the highest ratings on radio for a time and a good number of listeners were people who hated him, why because they wanted to know what he was going to say next.

People are curious about how a culture so vastly different from their own lives works and plays. I for one do not believe this is a good representation because they know the cameras are rolling and adjust themselves accordingly. that is why I hate "reality TV". 

The hate for Islam IMO is justified BUT the radicals who corrupt and or use the religion to carry out acts of atrocity's only make up a very small percentage of the followers as a whole and that is where the anger/hatred should be placed.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The show had a solid premiere for TLC, drawing a 1.5 rating in women 18-49 and a 1.8 rating in women 18-34, making it the No. 2 show in its time period whatever that means. Since then in its regular timeslot it has had 1.0-1.2 million viewers and a 0.5 in the 18-49 demo for both sexes.

Regarding the creator(s), from The Hollywood Reporter on November 30:


> Discovery Communications has been sued by a television production company that claims the TLC reality series All-American Muslim was stolen with the help of a rogue former employee.
> 
> In a lawsuit filed today in Los Angeles Superior Court, Visionaire Media claims that it is responsible for creating the buzzed-about series that follows five Muslim-American families in Dearborn, Michigan. TLC is alleged to have "stolen" the series without making payment and credit as Visionaire had expected.
> 
> The suit also targets Visionaire's former president, Noessa Higa, one of the show's consulting producers.


By the way, Russell Simmons, business magnate as the co-founder, with Rick Rubin, of the pioneering hip-hop label Def Jam, and creator of the clothing fashion lines Phat Farm, Argyleculture, and American Classics, and the third richest figure in hip-hop, has picked up the sponsorship dropped by Lowes. Simmons is an activist who among other things officially endorses the second Muslim Jewish Conference 2011. Together with Rabbi Marc Schneier he serves as the official patron of the conference being held July 2011 in Kiev, Ukraine. And no he is not a Muslim. Regarding religion he is a non-religious practitioner of Yoga, where he prays to the Atman, or the self. Simmons practices a method of Yoga known as Jivamukti Yoga, which encourages vegetarianism and social and environmental activism. And he is a practitioner of Transcendental Meditation and a supporter of the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace, which was established to ensure that any child in America who wants to learn and practice TM can do so.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> *Lowe's explanation for pulling 'All-American Muslim' ad would be high comedy if premise weren't so sad*
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-sad-article-1.990400?localLinksEnabled=false
> 
> A perfect example of what this show is about.
> ...


While I see your point, Lowe's is a private corporation. They have the right to support any show they want, and to not support any show they want. It's their money. If they wish to avoid a controversial program, that's their right. Their reasoning seems specious, but I completely support their right to decide what to do with their own advertising dollars.



sigma1914 said:


> Well, considering it's in Saudi Arabia ... no it's not American Muslim. Christians kill each other every day, including through the death penalty in our country...still this has nothing to do with the TV show.





renbutler said:


> I don't believe that's factual.


It is undenyable that people CLAIMING to be Christians kill each other every day. Lots of people who claim to be Christians, are not, and I assume it's the same with Muslims. Calling themselves <fill in the blank> does NOT make them what they claim. As House says, everybody lies.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> It is undeniable that people CLAIMING to be Christians kill each other every day. Lots of people who claim to be Christians, are not, and I assume it's the same with Muslims. Calling themselves <fill in the blank> does NOT make them what they claim. As House says, everybody lies.


People kill people all the time regardless of whether they are Christian Hindu Muslim etc. People kill for money lust excitement and NOT in and for the name of their God. It is impossible to deny that there are radical Muslims that choose to kill because of the distortion of their religion. Either killing the infidels or those horrific honor killings.

Regardless of What all American Muslim is trying to do and I presume it is to show the world that not all Muslims are whacadoodle extremists, but IMO we already know that.

A bigot who hates a Muslim or a black or whatever will continue to hate no matter what, they are incapable of distinguishing the difference between the radical I will kill you in the name of Allah Muslim, than the vast majority of those Muslims who do not distort the religion and or have evolved from the early days of the religions birth.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

Perhaps the conversation can shift to the actual substance of the show? I have it set to record but didn't watch yet. Those that have seen it already, is it worth it? I'm not at all interested in reality shows, but this seems sort of interesting and different.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

pablo said:


> Perhaps the conversation can shift to the actual substance of the show? I have it set to record but didn't watch yet. Those that have seen it already, is it worth it? I'm not at all interested in reality shows, but this seems sort of interesting and different.


Well I guess it how curious you are. My knowledge of American Muslims is nearly nil, so I do find it somewhat interesting.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Well I guess it how curious you are. My knowledge of American Muslims is nearly nil, so I do find it somewhat interesting.


I haven't been interested enough to set this to record, but I have watched parts of a few episodes while flipping through channels.

I find it marginally interesting. They're just normal people who are of a different faith than I am. They're going about their lives, and their religion, just like so many of us... only they have cameras following them around.

If I run across the show while nothing's on, I'll probably watch some more, but it's not interesting enough that I'll go out of my way to watch it.


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## chick3112215 (Jul 20, 2010)

We won't be watching it, not because of the topic but because our DVRs are full. Happy Solstice everyone...


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

If anybody is really interested in discovering facts about various religions, I recommend the (very liberal and very PC, even by Canadian standards (the opposite of my own viewpoints and way of presenting facts) ) Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance

http://www.religioustolerance.org/

You will certainly learn more than from the show.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

I guess the show has irritated PETA as well, according to this Hollywood Reporter artice.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

dualsub2006 said:


> I've seen a lot of promos for this, and that woman that says "to educate people like you" really turns my stomach. For one, it's a racist comment. Two, I'm not alone when i say that I couldn't give 2 quick squirts about Muslims.
> 
> I'd be really happy if Muslims just went about being Muslim and stopped trying to make me and everyone else understand them.
> 
> I won't be watching.


It's educational.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Church AV Guy said:


> I guess the show has irritated PETA as well, according to this Hollywood Reporter article.


It is interesting that PETA did not support Lowes pulling their ads. I guess Lowes should have said they pulled their adds because of the bad treatment of animals. PETA would have supported them on that. It would appear that PETA is falling all over themselves to be PC while trying to extort a free PSA.


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