# DirecTV and Social Security numbers



## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

Slashdot has a posting from someone complaining about DirecTV's refusal to remove a customer's Social Security # from their account records: Slashdot post :eek2:

With the regular reports of security issues and dishonest folks stealing SS#'s from various companies' databases (as well as suspicions of unreported break-ins), how do you feel about DirecTV's requiring you to provide a SS# and retaining it even after you're no longer a customer?


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

I dont even want them having my number my SS# when i am a customer!


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

There are so many bigger things to worry about IMO.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I just don't worry about these things. Just about every company has my social security number as it is. I don't like it but what can ya do.

I just keep an eye on my credit report monthly and monitor weird activity.

I'm more worried about the waiter taking my credit card where I can see it then I am about DirecTV having my SSN.


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## lee78221 (Sep 25, 2007)

I trust DirecTV and who they decide to employ(And they goes for all the companies I deal with). 

If I didn't why would I give them my SS number(And even do business with them in the first place!)

But I'm not dumb, that's why I monitor my credit report and get email alerts when any changes happen.



Life is to short to keep looking behind your back, just hope the business you deal with are honest and the people they employ are also honest(Which is all anyone can do).


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

I trust DirecTV for now. I can go online and buy someone's information for a nominal fee. A person's refusal to give out his/her social security number is futile since just about everyone has that information anyways (car insurance, utilities, bank, etc.) and they do sell this information company to company.


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## bjamin82 (Sep 4, 2007)

If your worried, pay for lifelock.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

bjamin82 said:


> If your worried, pay for lifelock.


That's what I do. Lifelock isn't perfect but it does work. It also saves you from yourself. One time I tried to open a new credit card but discovered I had to jump through hoops to get past lifelock. I gave up and realized I didn't need the card anyway.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I just refused to give DirecTV my SSN. They don't need it and so I didn't give it to them.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

lee78221 said:


> I trust DirecTV and who they decide to employ(And they goes for all the companies I deal with).
> 
> If I didn't why would I give them my SS number(And even do business with them in the first place!)
> 
> ...


It's not whether or not you trust the company you do business with -- it's a rougue hacker or lone disgruntled IT drone who can ruin it for everyone.

Everybody should check their credit reports annually to make sure nothing fishy is going on.

Also, all companies need to stop being lazy about using SSN for uniquely identifying custmers. Use another method. It's not rocket science.


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## wildbill129 (Dec 22, 2006)

ATARI said:


> It's not whether or not you trust the company you do business with -- it's a rougue hacker or lone disgruntled IT drone who can ruin it for everyone.
> 
> Everybody should check their credit reports annually to make sure nothing fishy is going on.
> 
> Also, all companies need to stop being lazy about using SSN for uniquely identifying custmers. Use another method. It's not rocket science.


I won't give my SSN to anyone. Sure you can check your credit report for problems, but by the time you see it on there it's too late. The damage will be done and it will take months to fix it. Lifelock or similar programs do help. The problem is DirecTV is offering you "credit" (the box/dish/etc.) so they have a right to do a credit check. I'd still resist.....


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

ATARI said:


> It's not whether or not you trust the company you do business with -- it's a rougue hacker or lone disgruntled IT drone who can ruin it for everyone.
> 
> Everybody should check their credit reports annually to make sure nothing fishy is going on.
> 
> Also, all companies need to stop being lazy about using SSN for uniquely identifying custmers. Use another method. It's not rocket science.


DirecTV requires the SSN for a credit check. No other number will allow you to have a credit check run. If you don't want to give them one then you don't want the new customer offer for equipment which is your choice. To say that DirecTV has another option is incorrect. Just like any other company that has terms based on credit.

I would be scared if I called a company and asked a CSR to remove the SS # and they did. That means they would have access to change those numbers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> DirecTV requires the SSN for a credit check. No other number will allow you to have a credit check run. If you don't want to give them one then you don't want the new customer offer for equipment which is your choice. To say that DirecTV has another option is incorrect. Just like any other company that has terms based on credit.


I didn't give them my SSN.
I'm not getting a loan from DirecTV, so they don't need it.
I gave them my credit card for any charges they might need.
I think it's a myth that they would have to do a credit check for their service. I've never found a company that needed my SSN [other than lenders/banks, etc.].
I believe DirecTV uses the SSN simply to keep track of return customers.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I didn't give them my SSN.
> I'm not getting a loan from DirecTV, so they don't need it.
> I gave them my credit card for any charges they might need.
> I think it's a myth that they would have to do a credit check for their service. I've never found a company that needed my SSN [other than lenders/banks, etc.].
> I believe DirecTV uses the SSN simply to keep track of return customers.


You signed up before national offers for free equipment if I recall correctly so you wouldn't have had to give them yours. So my point still stands.

People can refuse to give the SSN however they also pay a deposit and don't get free advanced equipment and only 2 standard receivers for free.

You never need to give a customer your social however it also doesn't let you get their best offers. People with good credit get trusted that's all it comes down to. Keeping track of fraud I'm sure is there as well.

The problem isn't with people having the last 4 of the SSN available it's the fact that people know the formula to create parts of the SSN which makes it very easy to duplicate with the right information which is public records.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I didn't give them my SSN.
> I'm not getting a loan from DirecTV, so they don't need it.
> I gave them my credit card for any charges they might need.
> I think it's a myth that they would have to do a credit check for their service. I've never found a company that needed my SSN [other than lenders/banks, etc.].
> I believe DirecTV uses the SSN simply to keep track of return customers.


I don't know if they have to do a credit check, but they want to. In one of their quarterly reports it said are trying to sign customers with high Fico scores. That info comes from credit bureaus.

Utility companies will also ask for your SSN and run a bureau. That's how they determine if you are going to need a deposit. When I have changed electric providers, I have seen the inquiry show up on my credit report. Haven't checked all 3 bureau's, but DirecTV never showed up as an inquiry on my Equifax report.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> You signed up before national offers for free equipment if I recall correctly so you wouldn't have had to give them yours. So my point still stands.
> 
> People can refuse to give the SSN however they also pay a deposit and don't get free advanced equipment and only 2 standard receivers for free.
> 
> ...


I did signup long before the leased hardware came about and there wasn't "free" equipment.
I still don't buy "the good credit get trusted" though. All of this can be [should be] covered by a credit card. It is is almost any other company I've dealt with.
With the current lease program and "free" [leased] equipment, using a credit card will let DirecTV "check" what they need. If there is $1,000 worth of hardware they can get aproval [without charging the card]. If there becomes a problem with the account and the hardware isn't returned, then they charge the card [isn't this what they do anyway?].
If someone doesn't have a credit card, then having DirecTV do a credit check, could make some sense, but with a card, to the extend DirecTV needs, the card should suffice.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I'll give my SS number to just about anyone that asks. I don't care. I was thinking about putting it in my signature.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> I don't know if they have to do a credit check, but they want to. In one of their quarterly reports it said are trying to sign customers with high Fico scores. That info comes from credit bureaus.
> 
> Utility companies will also ask for your SSN and run a bureau. That's how they determine if you are going to need a deposit. When I have changed electric providers, I have seen the inquiry show up on my credit report. Haven't checked all 3 bureau's, but DirecTV never showed up as an inquiry on my Equifax report.


 Well this may be the way of the future, but I have not [nor would I want to] give out my SSN to PG&E, or any other utility for service.
I can't even remember deposits being required in maybe 40 years, though I have been moving/transferring for the past 25 years.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Well this may be the way of the future, but I have not [nor would I want to] give out my SSN to PG&E, or any other utility for service.
> I can't even remember deposits being required in maybe 40 years, though I have been moving/transferring for the past 25 years.


I'm very cautious about giving my SSN to anyone as well. And I haven't moved in years either, but with deregulation I change electric providers just about once a year. Most of them give you a good deal to sign up for a year and then raise rates your second year.

On your comment about credit cards, times have changed. You can now get prepaid credit cards and debit cards. You may have the funds to get started, and when they post the upfront money, your fine. Then when your monthly comes due and you are out of money, it will bounce just like a check. So by running a bureau they can check your actual credit worthiness.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> On your comment about credit cards, times have changed. You can now get prepaid credit cards and debit cards. You may have the funds to get started, and when they post the upfront money, your fine. Then when your monthly comes due and you are out of money, it will bounce just like a check. So by running a bureau they can check your actual credit worthiness.


 If you have one of those type cards, [again] maybe the credit check is needed. If on the otherhand, the card has "member since xxxx", it should be as good as a credit check [since it is a credit card with a limit]. Hell even my card payment might bounce one day soon. :eek2:


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I did signup long before the leased hardware came about and there wasn't "free" equipment.


Yep, me too, I don't recall having to give D* my SSN to get service. Maybe I did, but I just don't remember it. I figured it wasn't necessary as they had the ability to instantly turn off my service if I failed to pay.



> I still don't buy "the good credit get trusted" though.


I don't think there is any reason to require a "high" credit score to get service without a deposit, but a having a very low score due to a lot of collection cases, repos, foreclosure, etc. might be enough to justify requiring a deposit.



> All of this can be [should be] covered by a credit card. It is is almost any other company I've dealt with.
> With the current lease program and "free" [leased] equipment, using a credit card will let DirecTV "check" what they need. If there is $1,000 worth of hardware they can get approval [without charging the card]. If there becomes a problem with the account and the hardware isn't returned, then they charge the card [isn't this what they do anyway?].
> 
> If someone doesn't have a credit card, then having DirecTV do a credit check, could make some sense, but with a card, to the extend DirecTV needs, the card should suffice.


The problem is that a credit card can be canceled easily. For example, I could call AMEX and tell them my wallet was stolen and they will issue a new card with a new number and now D* is out of luck (if I was trying to stiff them).


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

There is not another practical way that a company can protect itself that is cheaper or easier then a credit check. It would be nice if companies didn't need to do all of this but how many people still take checks at garage sales or from people off craigs list?

It would be nice if there was a different number that didn't tie to social security or things like passports that was universal or if they would just revamp the social security number to be less mathmatical and more random.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Go ahead.



spartanstew said:


> I'll give my SS number to just about anyone that asks. I don't care. I was thinking about putting it in my signature.


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I'll give my SS number to just about anyone that asks. I don't care. I was thinking about putting it in my signature.


Ahhh. You have Lifelock.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> I'll give my SS number to just about anyone that asks. I don't care. I was thinking about putting it in my signature.





morbid_fun said:


> Ahhh. You have Lifelock.


Lifelock or not, I wouldn't recommend advertising your SSN. The founder of LifeLock does have an ad that sounds amazing, putting his SSN on the side of a truck. But its not all that they lead you to believe.

They make you think they are doing something special, but all they do is setup fraud alerts with the bureau's and then renew them every 90 days. Once this is set up, it requires that they contact you before any new account can be opened. You can do this for free on your own. And once you do it, it makes it more of a hassle for you to get a new account opened. I had to do this once, so I know first hand.

The big thing they advertise is that we will cover all losses and all expenses up to $1 million. Its been reported that the company's service terms and conditions state something different. The guarantee covers only the hiring of third parties to repair a person's credit resulting from fraud, which means the agreement does not cover consumers' costs and financial losses resulting from identity theft.

There is also a lawyer representing 13 lawsuits in Phoenix, because the statements are misleading. He said they don't cover a lot of things consumers think they cover, including customers out-of-pocket expenses to fix fraud.

Just some food for thought.


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## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> It would be nice if there was a different number that didn't tie to social security or things like passports that was universal or if they would just revamp the social security number to be less mathmatical and more random.


A lot of people have said the same thing on various forums, but I'm not sure how it would help - the issue is that there's a number that's being used that supposedly uniquely identifies each of us. Replacing one number that uniquely identifies each of us with another number that uniquely identifies us just moves the issue from one number to the other.

If the number isn't universal, then it doesn't perform much of a function. Sure, it might protect our Social Security accounts, but I'm less concerned w/ SS fraud on my SS account than I am w/ identity theft.

Most identity thefts seem to occur either through "social engineering" type things (like getting your SS# or other ID out of your trash) or cracking into databases that are on-line; if we replaced SS#'s, it would invalidate any existing stolen SS#'s but then the cycle would start all over again with the new numbers. And if there is an easy way to convert the old numbers to the new numbers (to cut down on the inconvenience of updating the number everywhere it's used), then the bad guys would use it to convert their stolen numbers to the new numbers.

I've been a DTV customer since before "leased" or discounted equipment became the norm (I bought my first receiver/dish at Circuit City and installed it myself); I don't think they have my SS # either, but there's lots of companies out there that do have it.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jeffshoaf said:


> A lot of people have said the same thing on various forums, but I'm not sure how it would help - the issue is that there's a number that's being used that supposedly uniquely identifies each of us. Replacing one number that uniquely identifies each of us with another number that uniquely identifies us just moves the issue from one number to the other.
> 
> If the number isn't universal, then it doesn't perform much of a function. Sure, it might protect our Social Security accounts, but I'm less concerned w/ SS fraud on my SS account than I am w/ identity theft.
> 
> ...


One number though is purely tied to who you are from the government. Your SSN is you. With someone's SSN card and a couple of pieces of mail you can do a lot of damage to someone.

A secondary number that would be randomly generated could be used in place of SSN as more of a PIN for each person but one that doesn't carry any legal aspects to it. It would be much the same as an employee number or badge number. It belongs to you but you could not get a birth certificate or legal identification with it. This number could be used to open lines of credit and all sorts of other various things without the ability to have it compromise your life.

With this number it still wouldn't completely stop all forms of identify theft but with the right setups it could keep people from getting fake id's as you and let them clean out bank accounts and everything else someone can do with a fake id that a SSN can help validate.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Actually, I think it is illegal for your Social Security number to be used for anything except for the Social Security Administration (obviously, it is needed when applying for jobs so that SS taxes can be taken out as appropriate). Many states are removing the number as identification numbers on their licenses and also from their applications as they realize the issue it causes. Technically, whenever a company requests your social security number, you are allowed to provide them with a self-created number that they have to use if you request. As long as you remember what that number is when it is requested, you should not have any problems.

So.... you could contact DirecTV and have them update your SS# to another number of your choosing.

- Merg


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Actually, I think it is illegal for your Social Security number to be used for anything except for the Social Security Administration (obviously, it is needed when applying for jobs so that SS taxes can be taken out as appropriate). Many states are removing the number as identification numbers on their licenses and also from their applications as they realize the issue it causes. Technically, whenever a company requests your social security number, you are allowed to provide them with a self-created number that they have to use if you request. As long as you remember what that number is when it is requested, you should not have any problems.
> 
> So.... you could contact DirecTV and have them update your SS# to another number of your choosing.
> 
> - Merg


SSA only administers the SSN but does not regulate the use. If you create a random number for SSN to apply for CC then you can impact someone else. It is illegal to require use of SSN but most companies will make the detriment not worth having the service or ensure they get all their money up front.

CC and loans will just deny you automatically but they will not say that you cannot have one.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

From a FAQ about the Social Security Number... Just as info for those reading this thread...



> *Must I give my Social Security number to private businesses?*
> *General*. You generally are not legally required to provide your Social Security number to most businesses - including most health care providers - unless one of the exceptions below applies. However, some companies might refuse to do business with you if you don't provide your Social Security number. There is no law that prevents businesses from requesting your SSN, and there are few restrictions on what businesses can do with it.
> 
> If a business insists on knowing your SSN when you do not see a reason for it, we encourage you to speak to a manager who may be authorized to make an exception or who may know whether company policy requires it. If the company will not allow you to use an alternate number such as your driver's license number, you may want to take your business elsewhere.
> ...


- Merg


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## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> One number though is purely tied to who you are from the government. Your SSN is you. With someone's SSN card and a couple of pieces of mail you can do a lot of damage to someone.
> 
> A secondary number that would be randomly generated could be used in place of SSN as more of a PIN for each person but one that doesn't carry any legal aspects to it. It would be much the same as an employee number or badge number. It belongs to you but you could not get a birth certificate or legal identification with it. This number could be used to open lines of credit and all sorts of other various things without the ability to have it compromise your life.
> 
> With this number it still wouldn't completely stop all forms of identify theft but with the right setups it could keep people from getting fake id's as you and let them clean out bank accounts and everything else someone can do with a fake id that a SSN can help validate.


I still don't see how a secondary number would help - if the number is tied to your lines of credit, etc., then it's going to be tied to your bank accounts and can be used to get loans and credit cards, which is the most immediate issue with identity theft. Any number that uniquely identifies you across multiple companies and government agencies that's useful for financial purposes is ripe for causing financial issues for you if it falls into the wrong hands.

The only way to really secure you is to not have a number that's used across a wide range of companies/agencies, which then makes it more difficult to have credit checks and financial info easily available. Of course, that would make things more secure for individuals, but much more inconvenient - instead of just providing a SS# to get a credit check, you'd have to manually list all of your debts/assets - and companies would not like it since it would drive the cost of a credit check up dramatically and expose them to more risk when offering credit or a loan. Arguably, that could be a good thing considering how many folks have credit card debt problems and bad debt was a primary driver of the recent economic issues...

And no, I don't have an alternative!  Anything that could act as an additional identifier (biometrics, passwords, etc.) has other issues and, once it's digitized and stored, then it's subject to a lot of the same risks as just a number. Biometrics would help prevent identity theft from dumpster diving, though.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jeffshoaf said:


> I still don't see how a secondary number would help - if the number is tied to your lines of credit, etc., then it's going to be tied to your bank accounts and can be used to get loans and credit cards, which is the most immediate issue with identity theft. Any number that uniquely identifies you across multiple companies and government agencies that's useful for financial purposes is ripe for causing financial issues for you if it falls into the wrong hands.
> 
> The only way to really secure you is to not have a number that's used across a wide range of companies/agencies, which then makes it more difficult to have credit checks and financial info easily available. Of course, that would make things more secure for individuals, but much more inconvenient - instead of just providing a SS# to get a credit check, you'd have to manually list all of your debts/assets - and companies would not like it since it would drive the cost of a credit check up dramatically and expose them to more risk when offering credit or a loan. Arguably, that could be a good thing considering how many folks have credit card debt problems and bad debt was a primary driver of the recent economic issues...
> 
> And no, I don't have an alternative!  Anything that could act as an additional identifier (biometrics, passwords, etc.) has other issues and, once it's digitized and stored, then it's subject to a lot of the same risks as just a number. Biometrics would help prevent identity theft from dumpster diving, though.


Why would it be tied to your bank account? I didn't say it would stop fraud what I said is that it would make it much harder and it would help mitigate the damage. The real damage of identity theft isn't a rampant CC spending spree on a card you didn't order. That's one of the easier ones to deal with. It's when someone cleans out your bank accounts and gets into your funds management. Then there's the problem of once it happens it's almost impossible to stop it again. Getting a new SSN requires insane amounts of red tape. Where as if this number was compromised and it's randomly generated they could lock out the old one and then use a new one. Transfering information of course would be something worked out in details.

This plan isn't about stopping fraud because that will always be impossible and it will always exist. What can be done though is make it less impactful and have the ability to protect the consumer again which right now isn't an option. Fraud alerts and everything are like locks on your home. It keeps out honest people and people who are thinking about doing something wrong without the real drive to do so. People who want to and will do this know how to get around these blocks already.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Actually the Federal Government says that SS numbers are only authorized for SS and not to be used to run credit scores, checks or whatever. So in reality these companies using a SS to run a credit check or score are breaking Federal Law.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jeffshoaf said:


> I still don't see how a secondary number would help - if the number is tied to your lines of credit, etc., then it's going to be tied to your bank accounts and can be used to get loans and credit cards, which is the most immediate issue with identity theft. Any number that uniquely identifies you across multiple companies and government agencies that's useful for financial purposes is ripe for causing financial issues for you if it falls into the wrong hands.


The idea is that you would have a different alternative number used for each company you deal with. That way the number is only associated with that one account. If a person tries to deal with that account, they would need to know the alternative number you used for that account. You would be using other personally identifiable information when creating new accounts so your social security number is not being used.

- Merg


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## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> Why would it be tied to your bank account? I didn't say it would stop fraud what I said is that it would make it much harder and it would help mitigate the damage. The real damage of identity theft isn't a rampant CC spending spree on a card you didn't order. That's one of the easier ones to deal with. It's when someone cleans out your bank accounts and gets into your funds management. Then there's the problem of once it happens it's almost impossible to stop it again. Getting a new SSN requires insane amounts of red tape. Where as if this number was compromised and it's randomly generated they could lock out the old one and then use a new one. Transfering information of course would be something worked out in details.
> 
> This plan isn't about stopping fraud because that will always be impossible and it will always exist. What can be done though is make it less impactful and have the ability to protect the consumer again which right now isn't an option. Fraud alerts and everything are like locks on your home. It keeps out honest people and people who are thinking about doing something wrong without the real drive to do so. People who want to and will do this know how to get around these blocks already.


I'm still not seeing how this is better than using your SS#. Your SS# is required on your bank accounts for them to report info to the government (IRS, etc.). And it's used to tie all your accounts together for your credit reports.

If your identifier number changes due to the old one getting compromised, then you're going to have go to every place that identifier is used, do something to convince them that you are you (and not someone trying to steal your stuff), and get the number changed. Have you ever changed your e-mail provider and tried to remember to go everywhere on-line to change the e-mail listed on various accounts? Having to change your number everywhere it's used is going to be a big PITA.

And how is having a mutable id number going to work for credit checks?


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## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

The Merg said:


> The idea is that you would have a different alternative number used for each company you deal with. That way the number is only associated with that one account. If a person tries to deal with that account, they would need to know the alternative number you used for that account. You would be using other personally identifiable information when creating new accounts so your social security number is not being used.
> 
> - Merg


I understand that (and it already exists for most accounts - I have a DirecTV account number that's different than my bank account number that's different than my home telephone account number that's different than my cell phone account). But how does all of that get tied together for credit checks? That's the reason DirecTV says they need your SS#...


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jeffshoaf said:


> I understand that (and it already exists for most accounts - I have a DirecTV account number that's different than my bank account number that's different than my home telephone account number that's different than my cell phone account). But how does all of that get tied together for credit checks? That's the reason DirecTV says they need your SS#...


The credit check can be done without your social. You just need to be able to prove to the company that you are who you say you are (driver's license, bills in your name, birth certificate).

As for your account number, that is different than this alternate number. Think of when you call to check on your account, you are asked for your account number and at some point they usually ask you for your social or the last 4 digits of your social. Instead of your social, you would provide that alternate number. Since that number is different with every company you deal with, if someone calls up and tries to impersonate you with one company you have an account with they are most likely not going to know that number. And if they happen to know that number for one account, chances are very slim they can get into an account with a different company.

- Merg


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## jeffshoaf (Jun 17, 2006)

The Merg said:


> The credit check can be done without your social. You just need to be able to prove to the company that you are who you say you are (driver's license, bills in your name, birth certificate).
> 
> As for your account number, that is different than this alternate number. Think of when you call to check on your account, you are asked for your account number and at some point they usually ask you for your social or the last 4 digits of your social. Instead of your social, you would provide that alternate number. Since that number is different with every company you deal with, if someone calls up and tries to impersonate you with one company you have an account with they are most likely not going to know that number. And if they happen to know that number for one account, chances are very slim they can get into an account with a different company.
> 
> - Merg


They may be able to do a credit check w/o your SS#, but most companies won't. It requires additional work and is outside their normal processes. As has been posted, while you're not required to give your SS#, they're not required to give you service or lease equipment to you or give you any discounts or deals.

When I call the credit union or the credit card company I deal with, they already ask for some confirmation other than my SS#, usually in the form of a "secret" question and answer.

The "secret" number you're proposing has some serious usability issues as well. Unless used regularly, most folks aren't going to remember all of those additional number for all of their various accounts. Even if they write them down, they won't be able to find their list when the need it; each company will have to have a process to retrieve or reset lost/forgotten numbers, opening up a whole new issue of correctly identifying the caller before retrieving or resetting lost/forgotten numbers.

And no, I don't have a better alternative...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jeffshoaf said:


> I'm still not seeing how this is better than using your SS#. Your SS# is required on your bank accounts for them to report info to the government (IRS, etc.). And it's used to tie all your accounts together for your credit reports.
> 
> If your identifier number changes due to the old one getting compromised, then you're going to have go to every place that identifier is used, do something to convince them that you are you (and not someone trying to steal your stuff), and get the number changed. Have you ever changed your e-mail provider and tried to remember to go everywhere on-line to change the e-mail listed on various accounts? Having to change your number everywhere it's used is going to be a big PITA.
> 
> And how is having a mutable id number going to work for credit checks?


The only reason SSN is used now days is because it's a number universal to every citizen that doesn't change like a DL# if you move state to state.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jeffshoaf said:


> They may be able to do a credit check w/o your SS#, but most companies won't. It requires additional work and is outside their normal processes. As has been posted, while you're not required to give your SS#, they're not required to give you service or lease equipment to you or give you any discounts or deals.
> 
> When I call the credit union or the credit card company I deal with, they already ask for some confirmation other than my SS#, usually in the form of a "secret" question and answer.
> 
> ...


I never said that it was a good solution, only that it was a possible solution for those that do not want to give out their social security numbers. As Shades states, the SS# is used since it is a universal number that can be used to identify someone in regards to whatever transaction they are performing.

- Merg


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Dave said:


> Actually the Federal Government says that SS numbers are only authorized for SS and not to be used to run credit scores, checks or whatever. So in reality these companies using a SS to run a credit check or score are breaking Federal Law.


Wrong.

From the Social Security Administration:


> *Question*
> Must I provide a Social Security number (SSN) to any business or government agency that asks?
> *Answer*
> 
> ...


So the company cannot force you to give them your SSN, but they can refuse to do business with you if you choose not to.


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## oudabashian (Aug 19, 2007)

I am not sure if things have changed since I joined in 2004. However, at the time, I had the option to either provide a SSN or set up automatic payments via my Credit Card. SSN was not mandatory. Although it makes it easier to pull up a Credit Report, it is not necessary.


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