# I own it, so can I replace the bad hard drive?



## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

I have an HR21-700 with a bad hard drive. D* replaced the HR21 with an HR22-100. D* says I own the HR21, and they asked me not to return the HR21. I liked the HR21-700 which is not under any warranty. Is it possible to replace the bad 320 GB SATA drive with a new larger drive? I found discussions on replacing drives, but none indicate how the drive gets formatted or if the unit will work with a larger capacity drive. Please point me to the information. Thanks!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Once you swap in the drive it will format itself. If you take one from another receiver you need to remove the partitions first but other than that it's pretty straight forward.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

If you own it you can replace it with anything up to 2TB.

Just put the drive in, boot up and the HR21 will format the drive for you.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

Thank you for the replies.

Are the hard drives 3.5 or 2.5 inche form factor? Does brand matter?


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

3.5"

Western Digital AV-GP drives are preferred, but last I found them they are 2x the price because of the shortage.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

matt said:


> 3.5"
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP drives are preferred, but last I found them they are 2x the price because of the shortage.


Will other SATA drives work? Does RPM 5400 or 7200 matter?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have used 6 WD20EADS 2 TB Drives and they work Great but now they have the AV-GP Drives which are designed for use in 24/7 usage DVRs and they conserve Energy so go to the Western Digital Hard Drive Website and look for the AV-GP Drives.

Some of these are actually variable speed drives so they fluctuate in speed depending upon the services demanded to save Energy.

And yes it automatically Formats itself and does some scans to ensure the drive is good to go.

If you have ever replaced a hard drive in a PC then this will be a piece of cake with the exception of getting the Lid off.

PM me if you have any problems or questions.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

richierich said:


> I have used 6 WD20EADS 2 TB Drives and they work Great but now they have the AV-GP Drives which are designed for use in 24/7 usage DVRs and they conserve Energy so go to the Western Digital Hard Drive Website and look for the AV-GP Drives.
> 
> Some of these are actually variable speed drives so they fluctuate in speed depending upon the services demanded to save Energy.
> 
> ...


The WD Green drives operate at 5400 RPM (to save energy). The original (and perhaps current) marketing fluff avoided stating the speed and implied they were variable RPM, but they're not.

Something else that can be pulled off is that if the bad drive isn't completely dead, is that it may be possible to pull existing recordings off it on to the new drive. Not for the feint of heart, but there are threads on the board about cloning old smaller drives to newer bigger drives.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Also, how do you know it is a Bad Drive and not a Bad or Marginal Power Supply Unit which is not correctly supplying enough power to the hard drive so it can fully Power Up???

I have had this Problem 3 times in the past and a Bad or Marginal Power Supply can cause the hard drive to mimic symptoms of hard drive failure when in essence it is just not receiving enough power to fully power up.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Check the 320 GB drive on PC - MHDD (self bootable CD) or Victoria under Windows.
Get SMART, run Scan with Remap=ON, get SMART again, post both SMART tables here for a verdict about it health.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

I will pull the drive and test it. Thanks!


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

richierich said:


> Also, how do you know it is a Bad Drive and not a Bad or Marginal Power Supply Unit which is not correctly supplying enough power to the hard drive so it can fully Power Up???......


How do you test the HR21-700 power supply?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Put a scope's probes to each rail (17,12,7,5,3.3, etc) while the DVR is off; turn it on and watch a level, ripples, sags on each voltage rail.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

Well, I tested the hard drive and it passes every test. I'm glad you members suggested the hard drive testing. I do not have the equipment to test the HR21-700 power supply. I think I will put the drive back in the box and try it again. If it fails, I will put the hard drive in an external inclosure for backups. Thanks again for the assist. You are the best!


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

I guess the drive is bad. At the end of the long test it failed. May be the heat from the long test revealed the failure. I think I will try some other diagnostic software before I call it a bust.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

So, where is SMART data ? What program you're using ?


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> So, where is SMART data ? What program you're using ?


I ran Victoria v4.3 Win, WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows v1.24, WD DLGDiag DOS v5.19, and WD DLGDiag v5.04F. All hard drive testing is on Win 7 Pro 32-bit.

At startup, WD DLGDiag Win shows SMART = Passed (see attached files), but when I rechecked SMART, it failed and then passed. The first time the Quick Test and Extended Test failed. The second test passed. WD DLGDiag DOS v5.19 passed the Quick Test and the Extended Test. I ran WD DLGDiag DOS v5.04F and the Quick Test Passed.

WD DLGDiag Win Log file:

First Test:

Test Option: QUICK TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD3200AVJS-63WDA0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCARW0458540 
Firmware Number: 12.01B02 
Capacity: 320.07 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: FAIL 
Test Error Code: 06-Quick Test on drive 3 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), Failure Checkpoint = 65 (Error Log Test) SMART self-test did not complete on drive 3! 
Test Time: 23:43:44, November 03, 2011

Test Option: EXTENDED TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD3200AVJS-63WDA0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCARW0458540 
Firmware Number: 12.01B02 
Capacity: 320.07 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: FAIL 
Test Error Code: 08-Error was detected while repairing bad sectors. 
Test Time: 01:25:56, November 04, 2011

Second Test:

Test Option: QUICK TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD3200AVJS-63WDA0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCARW0458540 
Firmware Number: 12.01B02 
Capacity: 320.07 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: PASS 
Test Time: 04:06:57, November 04, 2011

Victoria v4.3 showed 4 warnings and 39 errors. The test took over 1 hour. Apparently, a Russian wrote Victoria, but I do not understand his instructions. I think this utility is for someone above my experience.

Victoria Log file:

6:24:51 : Starting Victoria 4.3 Freeware (beta version), CPU frequency: 1795,72 MHz, Windows Vista found.
6:24:55 : API access enabled, device #1
6:24:55 : Get passport... OK
6:24:55 : Model: TOSHIBA MK2552GSX; Capacity: 488397168 LBAs; SN: 982CF3L3S; FW: LV011C
6:30:20 : Starting Victoria 4.3 Freeware (beta version), CPU frequency: 1795,75 MHz, Windows Vista found.
6:30:20 : API access enabled, device #1
6:30:20 : Get passport... OK
6:30:20 : Model: TOSHIBA MK2552GSX; Capacity: 488397168 LBAs; SN: 982CF3L3S; FW: LV011C
7:29:29 : Starting Victoria 4.3 Freeware (beta version), CPU frequency: 3007.11 MHz, Windows unknown NT found.
7:31:47 : Starting Victoria 4.3 Freeware (beta version), CPU frequency: 3007.19 MHz, Windows unknown NT found.
7:31:48 : API access enabled, device #1
7:32:16 : Get passport... OK
7:32:16 : Model: WDC WD3200AVJS-63WDA0; Capacity: 625142448 LBAs; SN: WD-WCARW0458540; FW: 12.01B02
7:32:29 : Get S.M.A.R.T. command... OK
7:32:29 : SMART status = GOOD
7:33:48 : Get passport... OK
7:33:48 : Recallibration... OK
7:33:48 : Starting Reading, LBA=0..625142447, sequential access, timeout 10000ms
7:59:27 : Block 136852480 Error: UNCR
7:59:30 : Block 136852736 Error: UNCR
7:59:33 : Block 136853248 Error: UNCR
7:59:36 : Block 136853504 Error: UNCR
7:59:39 : Block 136853760 Error: UNCR
7:59:42 : Block 136854016 Error: UNCR
7:59:45 : Block 136882688 Error: UNCR
7:59:48 : Block 136882944 Error: UNCR
7:59:51 : Block 136883712 Error: UNCR
7:59:54 : Block 136908288 Error: UNCR
7:59:58 : Block 136908544 Error: UNCR
8:00:01 : Block 136908800 Error: UNCR
8:00:04 : Block 136930048 Error: UNCR
8:00:07 : Block 136973312 Error: UNCR
8:00:11 : Block 137000704 Error: UNCR
8:00:14 : Block 137004032 Error: UNCR
8:00:17 : Block 137010432 Error: UNCR
8:00:21 : Block 137039616 Error: UNCR
8:00:24 : Block 137073408 Error: UNCR
8:00:27 : Block 137088000 Error: UNCR
8:00:31 : Block 137096192 Error: UNCR
8:00:34 : Block 137115904 Error: UNCR
8:00:37 : Block 137116416 Error: UNCR
8:00:40 : Block 137116672 Error: UNCR
8:00:43 : Block 137116928 Error: UNCR
8:00:46 : Block 137129216 Error: UNCR
8:02:01 : Warning! Block start at 143048704 = 3952 ms
8:02:02 : Warning! Block start at 143055616 = 791 ms
8:02:06 : Block 143107328 Error: UNCR
8:02:09 : Block 143107584 Error: UNCR
8:02:12 : Block 143108608 Error: UNCR
8:02:16 : Block 143132672 Error: UNCR
8:02:19 : Block 143140352 Error: UNCR
8:29:40 : Warning! Block start at 293139712 = 249 ms
8:29:43 : Warning! Block start at 293248000 = 1981 ms
8:29:46 : Block 293256192 Error: UNCR
8:29:50 : Block 293328384 Error: UNCR
8:29:53 : Block 293329408 Error: UNCR
8:29:56 : Block 293330176 Error: UNCR
8:29:59 : Block 293330432 Error: UNCR
8:30:02 : Block 293330688 Error: UNCR
8:30:09 : Block 293651968 Error: UNCR
8:30:12 : Block 293652736 Error: UNCR
9:35:22 : ***** Scan results: Warnings - 4, errors - 39 *****

I am puzzled by the changing test results. I do not know if the drive is good or bad.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Ugh... Would you post human readable SMART table from Victoria ? Not the screenshots by unknown SW.
Anyway, UNC - a number of unrecoverable errors [39] telling us - time to trash the drive.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Ugh... Would you post human readable SMART table from Victoria ? Not the screenshots by unknown SW.
> Anyway, UNC - a number of unrecoverable errors [39] telling us - time to trash the drive.


On my previous post, double click the attachments which should enlarge them to full size. I am running Victoria again, because the WD tests all passed.

Where do I find the SMART file in Victoria 4.3? The Log folder contains the Event.log and BIN files. No SMART information in Event.log, and I cannot open the SMART BIN file. Thanks for you assist.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If the drive doesn't give consistent results, you shouldn't trust it to perform consistently.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

allenn said:


> On my previous post, double click the attachments which should enlarge them to full size. I am running Victoria again, because the WD tests all passed.
> 
> Where do I find the SMART file in Victoria 4.3? The Log folder contains the Event.log and BIN files. No SMART information in Event.log, and I cannot open the SMART BIN file. Thanks for you assist.


Get v4.46b and show this:


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Get v4.46b and show this:


The Victoria HDD v.4.46b SMART screens are attached.

I deleted the Linux partitions and formatted the drive NTFS. I tested the drive with WD Data Lifeguard Win Diagnostics v1.24, WD DlgDiag DOS v5.19, Norton Disk Doctor, Victoria v4.43b, Victoria v4.46b, and HDDScan v3.3. Some of the utilities reported errors and some pass the drive. The SMART is good or passes on all the HDD tests. I do not understand the inconsistencies, but I give up on further testing.

I am going to slap the drive back into the HR21-700 and see if it works. How do I prepare the HDD? Do I delete the NTFS partition? Will the HR21 format the drive?


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## prospect60 (Aug 26, 2006)

allenn said:


> The Victoria HDD v.4.46b SMART screens are attached.
> 
> I deleted the Linux partitions and formatted the drive NTFS. I tested the drive with WD Data Lifeguard Win Diagnostics v1.24, WD DlgDiag DOS v5.19, Norton Disk Doctor, Victoria v4.43b, Victoria v4.46b, and HDDScan v3.3. Some of the utilities reported errors and some pass the drive. The SMART is good or passes on all the HDD tests. I do not understand the inconsistencies, but I give up on further testing.
> 
> I am going to slap the drive back into the HR21-700 and see if it works. How do I prepare the HDD? Do I delete the NTFS partition? Will the HR21 format the drive?


I'd delete the partition just for the sake of doing it, but I don't think it will matter.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

allenn said:


> The Victoria HDD v.4.46b SMART screens are attached.
> 
> I deleted the Linux partitions and formatted the drive NTFS. I tested the drive with WD Data Lifeguard Win Diagnostics v1.24, WD DlgDiag DOS v5.19, Norton Disk Doctor, Victoria v4.43b, Victoria v4.46b, and HDDScan v3.3. Some of the utilities reported errors and some pass the drive. The SMART is good or passes on all the HDD tests. I do not understand the inconsistencies, but I give up on further testing.
> 
> I am going to slap the drive back into the HR21-700 and see if it works. How do I prepare the HDD? Do I delete the NTFS partition? Will the HR21 format the drive?


Deleting/creating partitions doesn't do anything for check/test of a heath of the drive.

Yes, by SMART the drive is not bad at all. I would check/replace SATA cable - check if it fit firmly, better if the cable has metal latches on both sides.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> .......by SMART the drive is not bad at all. I would check/replace SATA cable - check if it fit firmly, better if the cable has metal latches on both sides.


I am using the SATA cable from the HR21-700. I have some new cables which I can try. I have never had a flaky hdd which tested bad and good.

Should I delete the NTFS partition before re-installing the drive into the HR21-700?

Thanks again to you and all that supplied suggestions in this thread.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

allenn said:


> Should I delete the NTFS partition before re-installing the drive into the HR21-700?


Nah, the HR21 will re-partition and format it for you.


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## hitokage (Jan 19, 2010)

I wouldn't rely on the lack of SMART errors as evidence the drive may be good. I've seen too many drives (of various manufacturers) fail that didn't report SMART errors to hint their demise was imminent.


allenn said:


> Test Error Code: 08-Error was detected while repairing bad sectors.





allenn said:


> 7:59:27 : Block 136852480 Error: UNCR
> 7:59:30 : Block 136852736 Error: UNCR
> 7:59:33 : Block 136853248 Error: UNCR
> 7:59:36 : Block 136853504 Error: UNCR
> <snip> etc, etc, etc.


Two different programs detected bad sectors. Once you see that kind of error, it's time to replace the drive. Hard drives have spare sectors that are swapped out with bad ones (which are then marked as such) on the fly during normal operation. When diagnostics start reporting bad sectors, it means the spares have run out, and the drives platters are developing larger areas of defects. A bad sector here and there isn't necessarily a problem as the platter coating isn't 100% perfect, but clusters of them can mean a physical problem.

Here's the best analogy I can think of at the moment. An LCD screen can have bad pixels out of the box and as long as there aren't too many (usually there is a maximum listed by the manufacturer), they aren't a problem. However, if there is a cluster bad pixels or one develops, it means the panel is defective/failing. In other words think of the sectors as if they are pixels on an LCD screen, a few scattered around aren't necessarily a problem, but since your drive has clusters of bad pixels (sectors) it's time to be replaced as it is indicative of a larger problem.

If you really want to see if you can use it a bit longer, then have WD Diag write zeros to the drive. I'm not sure if the Windows version will do this, but one or both of the DOS versions definitely will.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

MDD and Victoria will do erasing as well.

Practically I would consider such case when many UNC sectors found during scan as a reason to write off the drive, but I don't agree with the description above.
1st - if passport's track is damaged (that's only one reason do not see Re-Alloc sectors count), it would become major error from first test;
2nd - we don't see the counter value increased;
as I saw during my own last years of testing, the max of reserved sectors(Remap area) is around 4K or less.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

Is it possible that the PC power supply is not big enough to handle a 3rd hard drive under Win 7 and low power is causing the inconsistencies? When I test the drive with WD DOS DlgDiag v5.19, the drive passes the short and long tests. I ran Win 7 Chkdsk /F on the drive, and it found no errors. I am going to switch out the SATA cables and re-test one more time. D* replaced the HR21-700 with an HR22-100, so I have time to run more tests. 

I really appreciate all the assistance from this forum. Well, it is cable switch time. I will report my latest findings.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Post all components in your PC (video/MB/CPU/RAM/drives/etc and PS model). It's rare if you have 'small' PS.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Post all components in your PC (video/MB/CPU/RAM/drives/etc and PS model). It's rare if you have 'small' PS.


Video = NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT 512 MB
CPU = Intel P4 Dual Core 3.00GHz
RAM = 2.00 GB
HDD = 2 x WDC WD800JB-00ETA0 ATA 80 GB 7200 RPM
ASUS P4P800-E Mother Board
PS = ANTEC PP352X Switching PS 350 Watts

I changed SATA cable and ran WD DOS Diagnostic v5.19 Short Test. NO Errors. I started the Extented Test, but it will take a while. No error last time I ran it. I guess I will see what happens this time around.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Without detail counting, I would say 350W should be OK with 3rd drive.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

Changed SATA cables and re-ran WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics DOS v5.07f. NO errors on short and extended tests. Ran Victoria Windows v.4.46 and it shows errors. I do not have instructions for Victoria, and I do not understand Russian. The tests results may reflect how the D* drive was setup for testing. Microsoft Chkdsk /F found no errors; as well as WD Diagnostics. SMART on all test utilities shows the drive passes. 

The next step is to put the drive back into the HR21-700 and fire it up. Thanks to all for the suggestions and assistance.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Post a log - it was in English...

BTW, I'm using pure English Victoria 4.46B ... perhaps you need to revisit that sites for new DL.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Post a log - it was in English...
> 
> BTW, I'm using pure English Victoria 4.46B ... perhaps you need to revisit that sites for new DL.


Yes, the executable is in English, but the user guide is in Russian. I am out of my league when it comes to HDD. I am sure that the Victoria test parameters were contributing to the errors. I do think it strange that the Western Digital, HDDSan, and Microsoft all reported the drive to be good.

Anyway, the HR21-700 booted and is fully functional. I never did see it format, but the internal tests passed. At some point, I will have to call D* and re-register the HR21-700 and remove the HR22-100 from the account. I like the HR21, because there is no delays with the remote.

Thanks for the assistance.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

hitokage said:


> I wouldn't rely on the lack of SMART errors as evidence the drive may be good. I've seen too many drives (of various manufacturers) fail that didn't report SMART errors to hint their demise was imminent.


What he said. SMART actually detects less than half of hard drive failures (it isn't through lack of trying it's lack of understanding). The diagnostic programs by the HDD vendors detect even less (this is through lack of trying). That is why we are recommending to use other programs like Victoria.

Victoria is detecting a huge amount of errors. The old drive is toast. Don't waste any more time on it. Not a single second.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Put a scope's probes to each rail (17,12,7,5,3.3, etc) while the DVR is off; turn it on and watch a level, ripples, sags on each voltage rail.


That could be because the HDD is attempting to draw too much power. That usually happens when a motor on it starts seizing.

For those results to mean anything, you'd have to put in an identical model HDD in it and watch power it up.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

You guys are probably correct about the hard drive being bad, but the HR21-700 is currently operating again. I do not think it is worth spending $100 for a new hard drive when I can purchase an HR24 for less than $200. The HR21-700 runs circles arount the HR22-100 which I deactivated. The remote actually changes channels on the HR21 when you push the button. I can enter complete channel numbers before it attempts to jump to a non-existing channel. I still have an HR22-100 operating in another room, and I may change it out for a spare HR21-100 I have. In the meantime, I hope the HR21-700 works a while longer. I worked for 45 years as an applications programmer, analyst, and consultant. I know hardware and software can have variables which will cause them to be inconsistent at times. Thanks again, you opinions are important to me. Have a great day!


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

Well, I guess the Victoria Diagnostic program was correct. The HR21-700 stopped working. I have done several red button resets in which it passes self tests; comes up; plays for a while and then freezes. I guess the HDD is dead. 

For all those suggesting the drive was bad, you were correct. Because of the rise in HDD prices, I decided to give up on the HR21-700. D* is sending a replacement HD-DVR. Thanks to all for your support and help. DBSTALK rocks!


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