# Can't Decide...Convince Me To Switch To Dish and The Hopper!



## sacflies (Apr 10, 2012)

I know, I know, this has been asked many times before. But maybe not so much since Dish got the Hopper. I am trying to decide whether I should hop on over to Dish from Directv. Been with D* for over 2 years now and am now out of contract. My HD receivers (2 HR23's) with D* have been slow and sluggish ever since I signed up with D*. And now with the HDGUI they are even more slow and sluggish. I currently have 2 HD DVR's, and 3 standard def boxes. In one of the rooms nobody ever watches TV so I can drop that room for now. So a Hopper and 3 Joey setup should be OK (only 2 people live in the house). I like sports but really the only advantage D* has over Dish is the paid services (NFL, MLB) and I don't get those anyway because I don't want to dish out the $$$. The HD channel lineups are not significantly different to me and doesn't affect my decision either way. I am hearing PQ is about the same for both. And I now have HDTV's in 2 additional rooms and I am wanting to get HD receivers for those rooms...and Whole Home DVR.

So, I have been trying to decide if I should make the jump. I have called Dish and I can switch to a Hopper/3 Joey setup at no cost to me for install or equipment. I would save about $20-$25 a month the 1st year. After that it will cost about the same.

So, those that have made the switch to Dish from Directv...convince me!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Honestly... given the research it is apparent that you've already done... and the known differences you have weighed and judged them a virtual wash... I'm not sure how/what to convince you.

It sounds like you genuinely don't care about the major differentiators that most people point out... so aside from getting newer equipment than you have right now with DirecTV and the temporary savings, it's hard to make a strong case.

Incidentally... I'd be saying the same if you were considering switching from Dish to DirecTV.

If you don't care about the sports subscription packages (Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings)... then it is a virtual wash I think.

I don't know, though... about the Raleigh locals... Dish only has PBS, CBS, ABC, NBC, and FOX in HD. For some reason I was thinking that I had read DirecTV also carried CW22 and maybe even MyNetwork. Or maybe I imagined that?


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

I disagree about the lineups. Dish has a lot more basic HD (at least 20 more channels), which was the major reason I dropped DirecTV a few years ago. Plus SD on Dish is good enough to actually watch. Hopper is very fast, has 1TB user space, none of which is used by PTAT. Sling gives you live tv or recordings anywhere. You can use IR and RF remotes at he same time, and remote can learn and has a locate function. HD extra pack also includes unlimited DVD, Blu-ray and games by mail with in-store exchanges. Full DVR management via web (not just scheduling). Although you can't pause in one room and resume in the next on D*, like their commercial, you actually can do that with Dish. Those are just the first few things that come to mind.


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## sacflies (Apr 10, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Honestly... given the research it is apparent that you've already done... and the known differences you have weighed and judged them a virtual wash... I'm not sure how/what to convince you.
> 
> It sounds like you genuinely don't care about the major differentiators that most people point out... so aside from getting newer equipment than you have right now with DirecTV and the temporary savings, it's hard to make a strong case.
> 
> ...


Yes, D* has my local CW channel, plus MyNetwork, local Univision, and the local ION TV channel. So looks like D* is a bit better with locals. I wasn't aware of that. Good to know, although I don't really watch those channels very much.

Edit: Only CW is HD. MyNetwork, Univision, and ION are SD. Are you saying that Dish doesn't carry these local channels at all in Raleigh area? Or just not in HD?


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

sacflies said:


> Edit: Only CW is HD. MyNetwork, Univision, and ION are SD. Are you saying that Dish doesn't carry these local channels at all in Raleigh area? Or just not in HD?


They carry the following locals:
Raleigh, NC - ABC (WTVD) HD 11
Raleigh, NC - CBS (WRAL) HD 5
Raleigh, NC - CW (WLFL) 22
Raleigh, NC - FOX (WRAZ) HD 50
Raleigh, NC - IND (WRAY) 30
Raleigh, NC - ION (WRPX) 47
Raleigh, NC - MNT (WRDC) 28
Raleigh, NC - NBC (WNCN) HD 17
Raleigh, NC - PBS (UNCEX) 36
Raleigh, NC - PBS (UNCTV) HD 4
Raleigh, NC - UNVSN (WUVC) 40


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## sacflies (Apr 10, 2012)

mdavej said:


> I disagree about the lineups. Dish has a lot more basic HD (at least 20 more channels), which was the major reason I dropped DirecTV a few years ago. Plus SD on Dish is good enough to actually watch. Hopper is very fast, has 1TB user space, none of which is used by PTAT. Sling gives you live tv or recordings anywhere. You can use IR and RF remotes at he same time, and remote can learn and has a locate function. HD extra pack also includes unlimited DVD, Blu-ray and games by mail with in-store exchanges. Full DVR management via web (not just scheduling). Although you can't pause in one room and resume in the next on D*, like their commercial, you actually can do that with Dish. Those are just the first few things that come to mind.


Thx for the reply. Some nice features there. I already have Blockbuster 1 disc out deal...how is the Blockbuster streaming? I hear it is very weak compared to Netflix.


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## sacflies (Apr 10, 2012)

coolman302003 said:


> They carry the following locals:
> Raleigh, NC - ABC (WTVD) HD 11
> Raleigh, NC - CBS (WRAL) HD 5
> Raleigh, NC - CW (WLFL) 22
> ...


Thank you very much for that info. Pretty much what D* has in the area, but Dish adds IND 30. Then again CW is not in HD on Dish, but I never watch that channel anyway...and probably wouldn't watch IND 30 either. So it's a wash..once again!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

sacflies said:


> Thank you very much for that info. Pretty much what D* has in the area, but Dish adds IND 30. Then again CW is not in HD on Dish, but I never watch that channel anyway...and probably wouldn't watch IND 30 either. So it's a wash..once again!


He beat me to the reply... Yes, Dish has pretty much everything (except a couple of the sub-channels like This, Me-TV, PBS-KD and those music/video sub-channels) in SD... but only those 5 in HD.

The reason this might matter... is if you get a Hopper/Joey setup, there is no OTA support right now from Dish for those models. It is supposed to be coming this "summer" but no real official word... so that might factor in to your decision if you watch anything (like I watch Supernatural and Ringer on CW) on CW22 then you wouldn't be able to watch it in HD on the Hopper setup until whenever they get OTA support.

I'm happy with my Dish setup... but then I have other receivers that do support OTA, so I watch CW22 and MyNetwork OTA in HD.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

sacflies said:


> I am trying to decide whether I should hop on over to Dish from Directv. Been with D* for over 2 years now and am now out of contract. My HD receivers (2 HR23's) with D* have been slow and sluggish ever since I signed up with D*. And now with the HDGUI they are even more slow and sluggish...
> 
> So, those that have made the switch to Dish from Directv...convince me!


If you haven't watched my demo video, do so: 




I just switched a week ago, and couldn't be much happier. I miss the OTA tuner, but after watching the NASCAR race from the satellite tuners, I can say the HD locals are "good enough" for now. And the Primetime Anytime feature is more useful than I thought - sometimes I sit down with no particular idea what to watch, and I have a whole week's lineup of shows to pick from without having to set them up in advance.

It sounds like people with DirecTV receivers either have good or bad performance, with no rhyme or reason known for the problems. You're probably having the same issues I had with my HR22-100. If so, the Hopper would be a breath of fresh air. In the long run, I'm not saving much of anything by switching, but the promo period savings are nice. Especially since trying to get a better DVR from DirecTV would probably cost me $200 out-of-pocket.

Then again, DirecTV called yesterday and offered to send me a new, high-speed DVR and give me 50% off my programming if I'd switch back. Hmmm. Two years of misery with DirecTV, followed by a week of high satisfaction with Dish... Sure, sure, I'll switch back to save $10 on the gamble that they've fixed their problems and suddenly gotten better. :nono2:


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## aliciab_dish (Jan 5, 2011)

sacflies said:


> I know, I know, this has been asked many times before. But maybe not so much since Dish got the Hopper. I am trying to decide whether I should hop on over to Dish from Directv. Been with D* for over 2 years now and am now out of contract. My HD receivers (2 HR23's) with D* have been slow and sluggish ever since I signed up with D*. And now with the HDGUI they are even more slow and sluggish. I currently have 2 HD DVR's, and 3 standard def boxes. In one of the rooms nobody ever watches TV so I can drop that room for now. So a Hopper and 3 Joey setup should be OK (only 2 people live in the house). I like sports but really the only advantage D* has over Dish is the paid services (NFL, MLB) and I don't get those anyway because I don't want to dish out the $$$. The HD channel lineups are not significantly different to me and doesn't affect my decision either way. I am hearing PQ is about the same for both. And I now have HDTV's in 2 additional rooms and I am wanting to get HD receivers for those rooms...and Whole Home DVR.
> 
> So, I have been trying to decide if I should make the jump. I have called Dish and I can switch to a Hopper/3 Joey setup at no cost to me for install or equipment. I would save about $20-$25 a month the 1st year. After that it will cost about the same.
> 
> So, those that have made the switch to Dish from Directv...convince me!


Hi there, my name is Alicia with DISH. I would be more then happy to answer any questions you have. We continue to offer the lowest everyday price in the pay-TV industry, saving our customers money every month as compared to our competitors as well as the least expensive equipment in the industry. We understand that some of our customers are impacted by the economy so we strive to provide several packages at reasonable prices starting at just $24.99 per month. No other provider can say that! Our price for our packages and, the package the programming is placed in depends on what we must pay each network for their programming. We do not require a customer retain the same package throughout their contract period. You can always email me directly.

[email protected]


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## SatelliteSolutionsNetwork (Apr 19, 2012)

Just an additional note: One of the advantages of the Hopper and Joey over DirecTV whole-home DVR is that you have independent DVR capabilities in every room. 

This isn't currently possible with DirecTV; only one room can access the DVR at a time with their setup. 

If DVR functionality is important to you, DISH has the advantage over DirecTV.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

I was with D* for 4+years and now with E* for 6 months. I was an early convertee to MRV with D* and switched to the Hopper/Joey system 3 days after it was introduced.

My opinions:

D* advantages
1. More sports and premium channels in HD
2. NFLST 
3. A guide that is more accurate timewise. I rarely missed the last minute(s) of shows that ended at odd times like those on ABC, FX, etc.
4. Lighted remotes.

E* advantages
1. Faster, more reliable receivers.
2. A guide that shows 2.5 hrs of programming.
3. More basic HD channels
4. The PTAT feature of the Hopper. It's a couch potato's dream.
5. EHD usability and flexibllity.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

"sacflies" said:


> Thx for the reply. Some nice features there. I already have Blockbuster 1 disc out deal...how is the Blockbuster streaming? I hear it is very weak compared to Netflix.


Yes the streaming is very weak. But the difference is the disc deal will only cost you $10 and you get the HD Platinum package included for free.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

sacflies said:


> Yes, D* has my local CW channel, plus MyNetwork, local Univision, and the local ION TV channel. So looks like D* is a bit better with locals. I wasn't aware of that. Good to know, although I don't really watch those channels very much.
> 
> Edit: Only CW is HD. MyNetwork, Univision, and ION are SD. Are you saying that Dish doesn't carry these local channels at all in Raleigh area? Or just not in HD?


There isn't a MyNetwork now, at least in my DMA.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

sacflies said:


> I know, I know, this has been asked many times before. But maybe not so much since Dish got the Hopper. I am trying to decide whether I should hop on over to Dish from Directv. Been with D* for over 2 years now and am now out of contract. My HD receivers (2 HR23's) with D* have been slow and sluggish ever since I signed up with D*. And now with the HDGUI they are even more slow and sluggish. I currently have 2 HD DVR's, and 3 standard def boxes. In one of the rooms nobody ever watches TV so I can drop that room for now. So a Hopper and 3 Joey setup should be OK (only 2 people live in the house). I like sports but really the only advantage D* has over Dish is the paid services (NFL, MLB) and I don't get those anyway because I don't want to dish out the $$$. The HD channel lineups are not significantly different to me and doesn't affect my decision either way. I am hearing PQ is about the same for both. And I now have HDTV's in 2 additional rooms and I am wanting to get HD receivers for those rooms...and Whole Home DVR.
> 
> So, I have been trying to decide if I should make the jump. I have called Dish and I can switch to a Hopper/3 Joey setup at no cost to me for install or equipment. I would save about $20-$25 a month the 1st year. After that it will cost about the same.
> 
> So, those that have made the switch to Dish from Directv...convince me!


Sounds like you need more than the 3 Tuners that the Hopper has to share with all the Joeys.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

SatelliteSolutionsNetwork said:


> Just an additional note: One of the advantages of the Hopper and Joey over DirecTV whole-home DVR is that you have independent DVR capabilities in every room.
> 
> This isn't currently possible with DirecTV; only one room can access the DVR at a time with their setup.
> 
> If DVR functionality is important to you, DISH has the advantage over DirecTV.


While what you say is true for the HRs up through the HR24, it is not true of the HR34. The 34 has 5 tuners and allows for 3 remote viewers at a time I believe.


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## sacflies (Apr 10, 2012)

Curtis0620 said:


> Sounds like you need more than the 3 Tuners that the Hopper has to share with all the Joeys.


I am a little concerned about that, although there are only 2 people living in the house. If I were to have PTAT running in the evening plus one person watching another show on the Hopper, and myself watching another program in another room...all the tuners would be in use and it wouldn't be possible to record another show at that point...if I understand it right. That scenario could easily come up often. But I am not even sure I will use the PTAT feature as I don't currently watch a lot of PT network shows. So that would free up another tuner to be used. Doing the 2 Hopper/2 Joey setup would be an additional $200, $50 of which could be offset by signing up as a referral (which I believe gets me $50 off the first months charge?). But I am hearing that 2 Hopper setups are giving some people problems. All this is playing a part in making my decision to switch more difficult and is leading to me being hesitant. I guess I am making this decision too difficult. But then again whichever way I go I will be pretty much stuck with the decision for the next 2 years...like it or not. So I am trying to tread carefully here!

Thanks everyone for the replies. It has been helpful.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

I have a two Hopper one Joey system. No issues and I Sling off one of the Hoppers. When the integration happens ( Hopper linking to Hoppers, coming soon) The not enough tuners questions will be passé.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

The 3 tuner limitation only becomes a problem when recording or watching live shows. In my case, 90% of what I watch is from the DVR so I can watch shows while the DVR is recording other shows. Once the OTA option is available for the Hopper, it will be a hard system to beat.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

sacflies said:


> I am a little concerned about that, although there are only 2 people living in the house. If I were to have PTAT running in the evening plus one person watching another show on the Hopper, and myself watching another program in another room...all the tuners would be in use and it wouldn't be possible to record another show at that point...if I understand it right. That scenario could easily come up often. But I am not even sure I will use the PTAT feature as I don't currently watch a lot of PT network shows. So that would free up another tuner to be used. Doing the 2 Hopper/2 Joey setup would be an additional $200, $50 of which could be offset by signing up as a referral (which I believe gets me $50 off the first months charge?). But I am hearing that 2 Hopper setups are giving some people problems. All this is playing a part in making my decision to switch more difficult and is leading to me being hesitant. I guess I am making this decision too difficult. But then again whichever way I go I will be pretty much stuck with the decision for the next 2 years...like it or not. So I am trying to tread carefully here!
> 
> Thanks everyone for the replies. It has been helpful.


Always willing to help someone who is honestly trying to do their homework before signing up. 
There are no problems with the two hopper set-ups, unless you can specifically point me to multiple posts about that, which I have not seen. The one issue is the hoppers can not see each other at this time, but they will shortly. Every joey can see either Hopper however, and can be changed at anytime by the push of a button. As mentioned above, if you can use the Over the Air USB when it comes out, that will add yet another tuner.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Paul Secic said:


> There isn't a MyNetwork now, at least in my DMA.


http://www.mynetworktv.com/stations.php


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## Skarzon (Oct 2, 2006)

Didn't want to start a new thread as there are tons out there, but I am in the same boat as the thread starter and am also contemplating switching from D* to Dish. 

I currently have 8 TV's (3 bedrooms, master, family room, office, garage and basement). I want HD in all rooms (not required in the garage) with DVR functionality and whole home DVR. I am pretty sure this will require 2 Hoppers and 6 Joeys (correct?).

What is the best way to sign up? I tried online and the price was crazy high (over $500) for the initial setup and fees, so I must be doing something wrong.

Do I have to play CSR roulette like you do with D* if I call?

What options should I look for (what's cool about Dish that a D* sub wouldn't be aware of)? 

Are there different physical dish setups (like SWiM 8, 16... on D*)? 

I will eventually want to increase the TV's to at least 10, how can I future proof the setup?

What freebies should I be asking for?

Is there a "new sub" checklist or walk through?

I'm probably going to give D* one chance to take care of a long standing customer (10 years), but Dish is really looking like a great alternative.

It's amazing how disruptive switching providers can be and I want to make it as painless as possible.

Thanks in advance!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Skarzon said:


> I am pretty sure this will require 2 Hoppers and 6 Joeys (correct?).


The current limit is 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys. You can modulate the output of a Hopper or Joey and use it in a second location (showing the same content on both/all sets).

I'm not sure how you got to $500 online ... the last I checked it followed the 4 Hopper/2 Joey limits which would be around $300 (plus monthly programming).

DISH's setup is based on a single "node" that feeds either one hopper (solo node) or two hoppers (duo node). Unlike SWM, the Joeys don't get a satellite signal ... they get a MoCA data signal from a Hopper. Each hopper receives the satellite signal (with three tuners per Hopper).

With as many sets as you have and the desire to add more I believe you have hit the wall. You really need more than two Hoppers ... and that is not a supported install.


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## Skarzon (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks James, that really gives me something to think about. Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Skarzon said:


> Thanks James, that really gives me something to think about. Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?


Nothing public but somewhere in the future I see it as an important improvement. NOT as important as a lot of the other stuff already on the list (intertwining two Hoppers, adding OTA) but limiting a home to six tuners forever? Not a good choice (in my opinion).


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> The current limit is 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys. You can modulate the output of a Hopper or Joey and use it in a second location (showing the same content on both/all sets).


I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.


That's one way to get into the $500+ range for equipment.

I have not seen three Hoppers mentioned ... and with so many looking at two Hoppers (and paying extra) before hitting three Joeys (DISH's threshold) one could run out of tuners quickly.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

Skarzon said:


> Do you know if there are plans to up the amount of hoppers you can have?


Check this out, over on the "other satellite forum" D.I.R.T. confirmed 3 Hoppers & 9 Joeys as the new maximum allowed. (Its actually been allowed for over a month now)
http://www.satelliteguys.us/hopper-zone/280552-3-hoppers-9-joeys-new-maximum.html


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> Nothing public but somewhere in the future I see it as an important improvement. NOT as important as a lot of the other stuff already on the list (intertwining two Hoppers, adding OTA) but limiting a home to six tuners forever? Not a good choice (in my opinion).


I agree. While you or I might not need them in our homes... there are customers who do... and if they are willing to pay, why not let them have more tuners...



lparsons21 said:


> I thought that was just the limit of leased units and that you could buy past that.


With the Hoppers, I'm not sure that it isn't a technical limitation.

We have single node and dual node devices... these can only support 1 and 2 Hoppers respectively.

It's too early... but I don't know how many DPP44 (or similar) switches you can stack and also stack single/dual nodes for the Hoppers onto that.

It could be they just don't want to do that until they get more Hoppers in the field... they could just be waiting for the firmware that right now doesn't even support 2 Hoppers "seeing" each other as planned... or there could be some other limitation.

Perhaps, for example, only Hoppers on the dual node can see each other (when the firmware update comes)... maybe they have to create a triple node or something else to support another Hopper shared like that.

I think it is too early to say for sure (unless someone knows something I've missed) whether this is just a "not right now" situation OR if it is a technical limitation of the setup.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> With the Hoppers, I'm not sure that it isn't a technical limitation.
> 
> We have single node and dual node devices... these can only support 1 and 2 Hoppers respectively.


Since each Hopper is designed to be able to support 3 Joeys, a logical conclusion would be that with 2 Hoppers you would get support for 6 Joeys. At least on the surface it seems that way.

But then I think about when they get the ability for 2 Hoppers to see each other, and what that means in the way of how many Joeys can be supported. I suspect that what will happen is that if Hopper #1 is providing video to 3 Joeys, that if a 4th one attempted to view something on that Hopper, it wouldn't be able to. Probably get an icon of some sort, similar to what you get with the HRs when someone is already using the single remote view that is allowed with them (up to the HR24 of course).


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

3 Hoppers and 9 Joeys have been approved for some customers - best to contact a DIRT team member for setup. The third Hopper and its Joeys will be an independent network for the foreseeable future.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> 3 Hoppers and 9 Joeys have been approved for some customers - best to contact a DIRT team member for setup. The third Hopper and its Joeys will be an independent network for the foreseeable future.


So basically one MRV network of 2 Hoppers + 6 Joeys on one network, and one Hopper + 3 Joeys on a seperate network, right?

That indicates that the 2 Hopper + 4 Joey limit is a lease limit and not a technical one at all. That is what I thought I read quite some time ago too.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> So basically one MRV network of 2 Hoppers + 6 Joeys on one network, and one Hopper + 3 Joeys on a seperate network, right?
> 
> That indicates that the 2 Hopper + 4 Joey limit is a lease limit and not a technical one at all. That is what I thought I read quite some time ago too.


Actually... it sounds like it is both a lease limit and a technical one.

Since each Hopper supports 3 Joeys... 2 Hopper + 6 Joey should be the technical limit for that configuration. If they limit to 4 Joeys, that would be a lease limit not a technical one.

Now... it seems my guess was right about a third Hopper not being able to be linked into the other 2-Hopper network... so even though you can do it, it means those Joeys connected to that third Hopper will be outside the other network... so the "whole home" thing goes out the window even when they enable Hoppers to share with each other.

That, then, is a technical limitation that probably leads to a lease limit because it is easier to do that than field the calls from customers asking why their Joeys can't see their other Hoppers when people don't understand the multi-isolated-network thing.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Since each Hopper supports 3 Joeys... 2 Hopper + 6 Joey should be the technical limit for that configuration. If they limit to 4 Joeys, that would be a lease limit not a technical one.


Perhaps ... but two hoppers four joeys is six devices using the MoCA bandwidth - which is a potential reason for a limit. Once Hoppers are tied together each device will need bandwidth to receive a signal from another device.

The original MoCA standard calls for up to eight devices on a channel ... two Hoppers and six Joeys would meet that standard (although the standards have improved since the original).

A separate system would require two DPP44s, a duo node for one pair of Hoppers and a solo node for the second Hopper. Or separate dishes for each system. Since the switches required to get five DPP feeds to serve the nodes provides eight DPP feeds, from a technical standpoint four Hoppers should be supported ... five if all eight DPP feeds are used.


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## n-spring (Mar 6, 2007)

Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....

DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.

There is no double play feature on the Hopper, where you can pause one tuner, switch to the other, pause, and switch back to first tuner and resume watching. Probably related to the lack of buffer mentioned above.

Other than these two shortcomings, the Hopper/Joey offering is pretty solid. There have been a few minor problems since I installed about a month ago, but no show stoppers. PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"n-spring" said:


> PQ is as good if not better than DirecTV, even on HD.


Sad to say, this has not been the case for me. DirecTV's HD picture quality is better, sometimes much better, depending on the channel. But Dish's SD is worlds better than DirecTV's.

If I compare a Twins game on Fox Sports Net North HD, Dish is a fuzzy, blurry mess. DirecTV was sharp and clear. Frozen Planet on Discovery was pretty good on Dish, but there was a slight loss of detail and some macro blocking on Dish, none on DirecTV. The Tennis Channel feels like looking through dirty glass on Dish, was very sharp on DirecTV. ESPN looks the same to me.

On the other hand, Top Gear on BBC America is so much better as to be beyond comparison - since only Dish has it in HD, and DirecTV's SD makes worn out VHS look good.


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## n-spring (Mar 6, 2007)

sregener said:


> Sad to say, this has not been the case for me. DirecTV's HD picture quality is better, sometimes much better, depending on the channel. But Dish's SD is worlds better than DirecTV's.


My point of reference is Hopper/Joey only. I stand by my statement. I switched from DirecTV to Dish in March.


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## bb83 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-spring said:


> Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....
> 
> DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.
> 
> ...


You can double play with the hopper. Use the swap button to switch between the the two tuners. you can pause, swap to other tuner and swap back to first tuner. the swap feature is always on. you don't need to enable it like on the HRs. This acts more like the old sony tivos.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

n-spring said:


> Two things I've noticed with the Hopper....
> 
> DirecTV DVRs buffer the tuner for at least 90 minutes. At the time you switch to a tuner, as long as that tuner had not been moved off its channel, you could rewind previous to the time you switch to that tuner. Not so with the Hopper. You can only go back to the point at which you switched to that tuner. This only allows you to record the remainder of a program. You can't record the entire program because there is no buffer. This lack of buffer is a real bummer.
> 
> ...


Both of your shortcomings here point to you perhaps misusing your remote.

The Hopper should be buffering two tuners all the time (except when recording with one of those tuners or during DVR playback) like the other Dish DVRs.

The Swap button on the remote should take you back and forth between the two tuners currently being buffered. There is only 1 hour buffer, though, not 90 minutes... but the buffer should be active for as long as you have been tuned to that channel (up to an hour of course).

I don't have a Hopper... but it uses an updated version of 922 firmware... so I'd be surprised if they took the effort to take that capability away.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

n-spring said:


> My point of reference is Hopper/Joey only. I stand by my statement. I switched from DirecTV to Dish in March.


I switched from DirecTV to Dish (HR22-100 to Hopper) on April 21st. I view on a 50" 1080p plasma at 7'. I am well acquainted with the ways in which MPEG2 and MPEG4 save on bandwidth, from reducing color depth to macro-blocking. I would consider myself very discerning when it comes to video quality, so much so that I can tell a poorly mastered Blu-Ray from a well-mastered one. I used an HDMI cable for both the HR22 and the Hopper.

It simply is impossible that Dish, by down converting 1080i to 1440x1080 instead of 1980x1080 can surpass DirecTV in image quality, assuming similar bandwidth. I see evidence of this lack of detail on multiple channels, but Fox Sports Net is by far the most obvious.

On Discovery, I watched all but the last episode on DirecTV. On Dish, even the title sequence gave away slight hints of being less detailed. But there was a scene involving flocks of birds that was very busy on the screen - exactly the type of scene that would show bandwidth issues. The birds turned into a mess of white blocks. On another scene showing sunset at the north pole, the blue sky obviously consisted of large blue blocks. I wouldn't say that DirecTV's picture is perfect, but these problems and flaws were far less obvious, and the overall feeling of the picture was sharper.

On the Tennis Channel, my impression before was of sharpness over the whole screen, even on wide, full-court shots. On Dish, the image appears soft, like looking through a slightly dirty window. Even on closeups, the players appear less clear. On DirecTV, it felt like I was really looking at them. I find it hard to maintain eye focus on Dish's picture on the Tennis Channel, because it is so soft.

On HD Local-into-Local, I can't compare DirecTV's MPEG4 because it is not available in my area. On Dish, the channels are washed out and there is strong macro-blocking visible everywhere. These look like very bandwidth starved channels to me, and I will be buying an OTA tuner for the Hopper the minute they become available. They are barely viewable for me.

I cannot answer for how you might think you're getting better video quality from Dish, or even equal. But I can assure you, the only video that looks better on Dish is SD, and even that is a sad degradation from the early days of satellite television, when SD was the only game in town and the picture was as perfect as the best DVDs.

I love my Hopper, and I do not regret my decision. No one should have to suffer with what my DirecTV DVR put me through. But until Dish gets more transponders or converts everything and everybody to MPEG4, they simply don't have the bandwidth to support the programming they're carrying at a quality level comparable to DirecTV.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

sregener said:


> I switched from DirecTV to Dish (HR22-100 to Hopper) on April 21st. I view on a 50" 1080p plasma at 7'...
> 
> ...I cannot answer for how you might think you're getting better video quality from Dish, or even equal.


Maybe he isnt sitting inside his TV


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

sregener said:


> It simply is impossible that Dish, by down converting 1080i to 1440x1080 instead of 1980x1080 can surpass DirecTV in image quality, assuming similar bandwidth.


Two questions about that...

1. How do you "know" that Dish is converting 1080i from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080? I'm not disputing it, I'm just asking how you "know" this? Do you have a way of measuring this yourself somehow? Or are you just relying on what you read somewhere on the internet? There are lots of false rumors about BOTH companies... and people who leave one for the other tend to have bad things to say about the one they just left.

2. To say it is "impossible" for 1440x1080 to look as good as 1920x1080 is not a good statement. MPEG2 and MPEG4 look different at the same resolutions... and both encoding schemes can be bitstarved... so it is possible for high bitrate 1440x1080 to look superior to low bitrate 1920x1080. Again, I'm not saying it does in this case, I'm just questioning the absolute nature.

I haven't had DirecTV in many many years... and I never had DirecTV with HD... so I can't make a direct comparison. Most customers don't have both Dish and DirecTV at the same time... so most of the comparisons I read on the internet come partially jaded by other bad experiences OR came from improper setups. Some DirecTV customers like their Dish better but it happens that their DirecTV setup was never configured correctly... and vice-versa.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> 1. How do you "know" that Dish is converting 1080i from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080? I'm not disputing it, I'm just asking how you "know" this?
> 
> 2. To say it is "impossible" for 1440x1080 to look as good as 1920x1080 is not a good statement.


As a new, first-time Dish customer, and a long-time and now disgruntled DirecTV customer, I don't think a "bad experience" explains my viewpoint. In many ways, I like and prefer the Dish service, but for someone who desires picture quality above all else, Dish pales in comparison. And there's no point in trying to convince people to switch based on incorrect information - an unhappy customer is worse than no customer at all. At best, Dish's picture matches DirecTV's, but I would say that most of what I have seen is not equal, and nothing has surpassed DirecTV.

I suppose you could say I don't know for sure. But I see a loss in detail with my own eyes. Something is causing that, and the "HD Lite" argument seems to be valid. Perhaps they are sending it at full resolution but at such a lower bit-rate than DirecTV that it looks like it must be 1440x1080. The end result is the same: a slightly less detailed picture on static images.

As to point #2, please read my words again. I state "assuming similar bandwidth." I did not see frequent evidence of bit starvation with DirecTV. I do see it with Dish. And that's on top of a loss of resolution.

Make no mistake, I think Dish's picture quality is quite good on most HD channels. We're talking about some rather minor picture differences that a typical viewer will never notice. But for the discerning viewer, DirecTV's is a bit better on some, and much better on Fox Sports Net North, at least based on what I've seen so far. If you must have the absolute best picture you can get, DirecTV is the right choice.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> Maybe he isnt sitting inside his TV


According to CNET and other sites I checked, I'm right in the sweet spot for my television size: http://reviews.cnet.com/tv-buying-guide/size-up-your-screen/

THX puts me on the long side of ideal: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/hdtv-set-up/

If you sit too far away, picture quality becomes a moot point - your eyes can't resolve the detail on the screen. And if you can't see the picture detail, you can't know how good or bad the picture is unless things are really bad. A 26" set at the foot of your bed is too far away. Even 480i looks good at that distance.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

sregener said:


> As a new, first-time Dish customer, and a long-time and now disgruntled DirecTV customer, I don't think a "bad experience" explains my viewpoint. In many ways, I like and prefer the Dish service, but for someone who desires picture quality above all else, Dish pales in comparison. And there's no point in trying to convince people to switch based on incorrect information - an unhappy customer is worse than no customer at all. At best, Dish's picture matches DirecTV's, but I would say that most of what I have seen is not equal, and nothing has surpassed DirecTV.
> 
> I suppose you could say I don't know for sure. But I see a loss in detail with my own eyes. Something is causing that, and the "HD Lite" argument seems to be valid. Perhaps they are sending it at full resolution but at such a lower bit-rate than DirecTV that it looks like it must be 1440x1080. The end result is the same: a slightly less detailed picture on static images.
> 
> ...


i completly disagree with you.
i had directv years ago and on my tv, dish's HD PQ is just as good if not better than directv's
are u sure u even have dish ?
going by your join date(forum)i would say u are here to bash dish
but i could be wrong


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"domingos35" said:


> i completly disagree with you.
> i had directv years ago and on my tv, dish's HD PQ is just as good if not better than directv's
> are u sure u even have dish ?
> going by your join date(forum)i would say u are here to bash dish
> but i could be wrong


Wow. I seem to have enemies on every side. A mod slapped me on the wrist for posting too many positive messages about Dish on a DirecTV forum, and now I'm getting hit from the other side for being a Dish-basher.

Read the thread over on DirecTV General Discussion about how DirecTV denies problems with their receivers and see if my purpose here is to bash Dsh. I posted a video showing off the speed of my Hopper, but I suppose anyone could claim it as theirs if you're into conspiracy theories.

I can only say what I see with my own eyes. You are free to have a different opinion. I am happy with Dish and find their picture quality adequate on most channels. But I am in the 1% who are super-fussy about video quality, and I see issues most people do not. I cannot speak of DirecTV's HD quality of a few years ago, because I only had HD from them from 2010-2012. I cannot speak of Dish's PQ before mid-April, as I had never had their service before.


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## akw4572 (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm on the fence as well, about switching to Dish. My biggest fear is the pointing of the Dish. My DTV dish is on the side of my house, and has just enough clearance behind the house they just started building next door. I don't want a Dish mounted on my roof, I'd much rather keep the location where it is. The Hopper has me very intrigued, as does a $30 price break for a year.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

akw4572 said:


> I'm on the fence as well, about switching to Dish. My biggest fear is the pointing of the Dish. My DTV dish is on the side of my house, and has just enough clearance behind the house they just started building next door. I don't want a Dish mounted on my roof, I'd much rather keep the location where it is. The Hopper has me very intrigued, as does a $30 price break for a year.


I could be wrong here, as i just woke up. But if memory servers correctly when it comes to degrees and angle the D* birds are slightly lower then E* birds, so if you are just barely peeking over your neighbors roof you should be able to grab the E* ones.

Assuming ofcourse were talking about the ones in the same direction


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

sregener said:


> As a new, first-time Dish customer, and a long-time and now disgruntled DirecTV customer, I don't think a "bad experience" explains my viewpoint. In many ways, I like and prefer the Dish service, but for someone who desires picture quality above all else, Dish pales in comparison. And there's no point in trying to convince people to switch based on incorrect information - an unhappy customer is worse than no customer at all. At best, Dish's picture matches DirecTV's, but I would say that most of what I have seen is not equal, and nothing has surpassed DirecTV.
> 
> I suppose you could say I don't know for sure. But I see a loss in detail with my own eyes. Something is causing that, and the "HD Lite" argument seems to be valid. Perhaps they are sending it at full resolution but at such a lower bit-rate than DirecTV that it looks like it must be 1440x1080. The end result is the same: a slightly less detailed picture on static images.
> 
> ...


I would suggest you lower your backlight setting on your HDTV if you have never tried that.That was the main thing I did with my 55" LED/LCD HDTV(I used a 50" RPTV before) and my HD PQ with DISH is nothing short of outstanding.My nephew came over the other day and asked me"When did DISH start broadcasting the SYFY channel in 3D"?.I had to tell him it's not 3D,he has DirecTV HD and watches it on his 65" Mitsubishi DLP HDTV.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"Jhon69" said:


> I would suggest you lower your backlight setting on your HDTV if you have never tried that.That was the main thing I did with my 55" LED/LCD HDTV(I used a 50" RPTV before) and my HD PQ with DISH is nothing short of outstanding.My nephew came over the other day and asked me"When did DISH start broadcasting the SYFY channel in 3D"?.I had to tell him it's not 3D,he has DirecTV HD and watches it on his 65" Mitsubishi DLP HDTV.


I'd lower the backlight setting if I could, but I don't have a backlight on my plasma. It is pretty close to professional calibration settings.

Your anecdote is interesting, but rather inconclusive in my book. When comparing things, you want to control for as many variables as possible, so that you really are comparing the thing, and not stuff around it. In your case, you controlled for the viewer and the channel, but nothing else. Things that could be different include quality and age of the display, display type, display settings, connection type, environment (brightness or darkness of viewing area), and audio. It is a scientific fact that quality audio leads to an increased perception of video quality, which means you should spend double on your speakers and receiver compared to your display.

For me, the only thing that changed was the satellite provider. Same television input, same television, same settings, same audio connection and speakers, in the exact same environment. The only thing I couldn't do was a true A/B setup, since one dish had to go down to make way for the other.

I have to rescind my comments on the Tennis Channel. In watching a little today to confirm my earlier report, I see that the picture is much better. Which leads to believe there was a problem of some sort at the last event I watched, where the cameras were inferior or encoded poorly. Not uncommon with overseas events, but it caught me by surprise. The Tennis Channel looks no worse or better than other HD national channels.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

James Long said:


> A separate system would require two DPP44s, a duo node for one pair of Hoppers and a solo node for the second Hopper. Or separate dishes for each system. Since the switches required to get five DPP feeds to serve the nodes provides eight DPP feeds, from a technical standpoint four Hoppers should be supported ... five if all eight DPP feeds are used.


I was wondering that, since I have a DPP44 feeding a DP34, is it absolutely a must that the daisy chained switch has to be another DPP switch or can it be a DP34 switch like I have now in my system?

I'm not necessarily thinking of having 3 Hoppers, but the way my cabling is now, it would be simpler to use the daisy chained DP34 for the second Hopper that I want. Note: I do not want the two Hoppers to see each other as it would add a lot of confusion for my wife.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

sregener said:


> ... But I am in the 1% who are super-fussy about video quality, and I see issues most people do not....


I'm like you and can be picky about PQ and notice differences others don't. It's like HD uncompressed audio - some can hear a huge difference while others, like myself, can not.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Grandude said:


> I was wondering that, since I have a DPP44 feeding a DP34, is it absolutely a must that the daisy chained switch has to be another DPP switch or can it be a DP34 switch like I have now in my system?


I don't believe the hopper can talk to anything less than a DPP switch or LNB.


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## n-spring (Mar 6, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Both of your shortcomings here point to you perhaps misusing your remote.
> 
> The Hopper should be buffering two tuners all the time (except when recording with one of those tuners or during DVR playback) like the other Dish DVRs.
> 
> ...


Stewart, thanks. You are correct. I wasn't aware of the swap key. I thought it was only for PIP.

Is it possible to record an entire program already in progress, or is it possible to only record the remainder of a program?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

n-spring said:


> Is it possible to record an entire program already in progress, or is it possible to only record the remainder of a program?


Maybe 

Since there is only 1 hour of buffer, any program longer than an hour and more than an hour into the program obviously could not be recorded in its entirety.

IF you are watching the channel, and decide you want to record what has already been on... you can press the REC button. Pressing REC again gets you a menu to select the end-time to stop recording.

Some Dish DVRs had settings like "record entire program" and "record until end"... but my 922 just has the settings to determine the end-time for the recording.

The only 100% safe way to be sure in this case that you get the entire program... is to rewind back in the buffer to before (or just at) the start of the program you want to record BEFORE pressing that REC button.

It feels a little awkward the first time or two, but you get used to it... and I've done it a lot when I was pausing something and then realized I needed to be away from the TV longer than I had room in the buffer... so I would then change to record it and watch later.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Grandude said:


> ...I'm not necessarily thinking of having 3 Hoppers, but the way my cabling is now, it would be simpler to use the daisy chained DP34 for the second Hopper that I want. Note: I do not want the two Hoppers to see each other as it would add a lot of confusion for my wife.


You don't need to do anything other than have a separator installed in the dual node. Your installer will do that, if requested.


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