# What I hate about DTV (rant)



## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

1) SWM 
I HATE this stupid thing. It's bad enough that it's needed at all but I have had two installers and one technical assistant tell me that I can't plug this thing into a surge protector or UPS;It has to be plugged directly into the wall outlet.

2)Broadband Decca
One _MORE_ thing I have to find a free space for on my surge protector and yet another coaxial cable I have to deal with.

3)DECCA
At least I don't have to plug this thing in but it's just one more thing I have to contend with if I ever move my DVR.
I could launch shuttles to mars and take over several small countries with less equipment than this.

4)Not enough basic channels in HD. Same complaint here everybody else has : Where's BBC America HD? DIY HD? National Geographic Wild HD? Cooking Channel HD?

5)Technical Support
Every time I call DTV with any kind of technical problem I am treated like a brain damaged slobbering numbskull and I'm tired of it. Did you reset the DVR? Did you unplug the DVR? Did you check all of the coaxial cables to make sure nothing's loose? Did you unplug the DECCA to reset it? Did you check to make sure everything's plugged in? Did you make sure there aren't any red lights on any thing?
Yes YES YES


I did all of that already. I do all of that crap _before_ I call and I check my coaxial cables at least every two weeks.

6)When i record a program I get about three minutes of the program that comes on after that program. What I hate about that is that the info banner doesn't change when that happens. That's really irritating if you forget you're watching a recording and not live TV. You push the info button and the info banner is still saying the program you just watched but the credits just finished on that movie so you know it isn't that so *what the (*(&^*&^( is it?!* What really sucks is when you forget that what you're watching is that 3 minute buffer and you start watching it. And just as you start getting into the show or movie the dialog pops up asking you if you want to delete the recording.
\...End rant...switches back to decaf...


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> [...]
> 
> I did all of that already. I do all of that crap _before_ I call and I check my coaxial cables at least every two weeks.
> 
> \...End rant...switches back to decaf...


Sorry you hate all of that but I have to ask what's wrong with your cables if you have to check them every two weeks? It may be better to replace them if there are that many cable issues.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> I did all of that already. I do all of that crap _before_ I call and I check my coaxial cables at least every two weeks.


Why do you have to Check your Coax Cables at least every two weeks???

I haven't checked mine in over a year. How can they come loose? They are screwed in.

Maybe you are Not Technically Minded.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

1. My SWM is not plugged into the wall. It's in my Monster energy saving/cleaning/whatever-it's-called fancy surge protector and works just fine.

2/3. I moved mine recently and non of that stuff really affected anything. I just left it all in the order it was and moved it as one thing. It is a pain, but what is does is cool!

4. Yeah, I hear ya. You gotta agree that the quality of what we DO have is better than cable, though, right?!!? I want DIY, NGW, IFC, and whatever else they can give us but not if it ruins the HD we have now.

5. I can't comment on that; I have never had a problem and have only called Directv directly to "move" - I got it set up via a retailer who explained everything I needed to know when I got it installed. Nothing has gone wrong. I don't lose my signal in heavy rain. Sounds like you need to have someone come and just re-do it all if you need it checked every two weeks!

6. Decaf is lame! Stick to the real stuff.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> Not enough basic channels in HD. Same complaint here everybody else has : Where's BBC America HD? DIY HD? National Geographic Wild HD? Cooking Channel HD?


Well, if you want to Pay a lot more for your Directv then they could give you everything you ask for. They are in the process continually negotiating for these Channels but if the Content Providers are trying to Stiff Directv and Directv doesn't want to pass along Excess Fees to their Customers then they put off signing a Contract until the Price comes down much like the NFL, NBA, NBL does during Negotiations.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Scott Kocourek said:


> Sorry you hate all of that but I have to ask what's wrong with your cables if you have to check them every two weeks?  It may be better to replace them if there are that many cable issues.


There isn't any thing wrong with them. It's just something I'm anal about. 
When I first switched to HD I had a lot of new equipment to get used to and every time I called DTV with a technical problem it seemed like that was always one of the first things I was asked so I check all my cables every once in a while. I've got a lot of things plugged in & connected in that room and it's a little embarrassing (and a waste of time) to call DTV thinking I have a problem just to find out something is unplugged.
For example if my On Demand won't work I have to make sure the broadband DEECCA cable modem wireless router and SWM are all plugged in and don't have any loose cables. It's a lot easier to check this stuff on my own every once in a while.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

SWM is a technology that is necessary. Otherwise more coax cables would be necessary. Not all boxes need one.

We know we're getting basic HD in the next month or two. Whether its on the list, we don't know, but very possible for sure.

Autopad is actually a good feature. Sometimes shows start early or end late, autopad helps that a lot.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Richierich said:


> Well, if you want to Pay a lot more for your Directv then they could give you everything you ask for. They are in the process continually negotiating for these Channels but if the Content Providers are trying to Stiff Directv and Directv doesn't want to pass along Excess Fees to their Customers then they put off signing a Contract until the Price comes down much like the NFL, NBA, NBL does during Negotiations.


I always thought it was a bandwidth issue. It never occurred to me that this could be a money issue. I didn't know there was that much drama associated with getting the rights to air sports. I don't watch sports so I never really paid any attention.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> Technical Support:Every time I call DTV with any kind of technical problem I am treated like a brain damaged slobbering numbskull and I'm tired of it. Did you reset the DVR? Did you unplug the DVR? Did you check all of the coaxial cables to make sure nothing's loose? Did you unplug the DECA to reset it? Did you check to make sure everything's plugged in? Did you make sure there aren't any red lights on any thing?


Directv Could Hire Psychic CSRs but they Cost More and then you would ***** about the Cost. They don't know what is causing your problem so they have to go thru a Script of all Possible Things that Could Cause you to have Your Problem and by a Process of Elimination they may find the problem without having to sent out a Directv Installer.

Yes it can be frustrating as I have had to do it many many times but you just have to be Patient and ask for Technical Services if you don't think the Front Line CSR can be of help to you.

Drinking Too Much Caffeine or Alcohol can cause you to be Irrational and Too Emotional so work on those Issues and get back to me Next Week!!! That will be $100 for today's Therapy!!! :lol:

By the way I would Love to have HLN in HD but not if it is going to cost me more money as I don't watch it at all but my wife likes it.

And Oh By The Way, DECCA is Spelled DECA (Directv Ethernet Coaxial Adapter) which allows you to use your Coax as an Ethernet Cable and it works much better with WHDVR Service than your Own LAN Network.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dpeters11 said:


> SWM is a technology that is necessary. Otherwise more coax cables would be necessary. Not all boxes need one.
> 
> We know we're getting basic HD in the next month or two. Whether its on the list, we don't know, but very possible for sure.
> 
> Autopad is actually a good feature. Sometimes shows start early or end late, autopad helps that a lot.


I was wondering if that feature had an actual name. I like the feature I just don't like the way it's implemented. If I watch say Conspiracy Theory and autopad records the first few minutes of the next show or movie the info banner should change to tell you you're watching the first few minutes of another show not continue to show Conspiracy Theory. There's been a few times when I liked what was recorded in those few minutes but I didn't know what it was because the info banner didn't change.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Richierich said:


> Directc Could Hire Psychic CSRs but they Cost More and then you would ***** about the Cost. They don't know what is causing your problem so they have to go thru a Script of all Possible Things that Could cause you to have your problem and by a Process of Elimination they may find the problem without having to sent out a Directv Installer.
> Yes it can be frustrating as I have had to do it many many times but you just have to be Patient and ask for Technical Services if you don't think the Front Line CSR can be of help to you.
> 
> Drinking Too Much Caffeine or Alocohol can cause you to be Irrational and Too Emotional so work on those Issues and get back to me Next Week!!! That will be $100 for today's Therapy!!! :lol:
> ...


Actually I was thinking of just giving customers ratings on their technical knowledge. If you start out talking about DECCA's broadband DECCA's SWM's ethernet cables they should be able to add a note to you file indicating that have some technical knowledge. 
T0 for the technologically challenged T2 for intermediate & so on...

By the way I like that psychic CSR idea!
"Thank you for calling Direct TV. We know who you are where you are and we know what your problem is so sit tight and and I'll be happy to tell you exactly how to fix it! By the way your wife wants you to know that you spend entirely too much time watching the Playboy channel. Thank you again for choosing Direct TV and don't worry because you're going to have a great day today. But tomorrow's gonna be terrible!"


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Whenever I need support, unless I need a replacement box, I go straight to level 3 support or higher. DBSTalk.com. VOS alone qualifies at least as level 4.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

My biggest complaint about D* is the whiners it attracts.

4 of the 6 things you mention are PLUSES (SWiM, DECA, Autopad)

As for lack of HD, they have 99% of the channels people watch.

As for Customer Service, they're continually ranked higher than everyone else, and it's been great for me.

Is it perfect? No. Are there things that could be better? Absolutely. But the things you've outlined aren't worth ranting about.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Personally, I always found the BBCs more annoying than DECA. That's probably the best thing about SWM, not having to have two of those hanging off a DVR.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Red Orc said:


> I always thought it was a bandwidth issue. It never occurred to me that this could be a money issue. I didn't know there was that much drama associated with getting the rights to air sports. I don't watch sports so I never really paid any attention.


Yeah, it is much about the money too. Look at the recent increases and channel moves. The word initially was we would see about 4% and others said that the actual progamming cost increase to D* was around 10%. So it appeared we were getting some break in the increase.

But then the 9th of Feb rolled around and the new package changes and you can see that not only did Xtra go up, unless you kept the Xtra Classic, you lost channels to higher programming tiers. That is a direct connection between increased programmng costs and what we pay.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> 1) SWM
> I HATE this stupid thing. It's bad enough that it's needed at all but I have had two installers and one technical assistant tell me that I can't plug this thing into a surge protector or UPS;It has to be plugged directly into the wall outlet.
> 
> Everyone that has told you this is incorrect; does that make you like now? From a technical standpoint SWM is vastly superior to the previous technology -- if for no other reason than the automatic gain control it provides.
> ...


It sounds as if reading a bit about the technology would help you understand why it's necessary, and the benefits it provides.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

spartanstew said:


> My biggest complaint about D* is the whiners it attracts.
> 
> 4 of the 6 things you mention are PLUSES (SWiM, DECA, Autopad)
> 
> ...


How is a DECA A plus? Is having a Deca eliminating the need for something else that's even more cumbersome?
When I originally got DTV I had SD. All I had was two coaxial cables connected to the DVR. I switched to Comcast HD triple play to save money. The only thing I had to connect to the Comcast DVR was one coaxial cable. I went back to DTV and switched to HD because they offered me a free HD DVR. I didn't know and I was not told at the time that I would have all this stuff connected to the DVR. I found out about the DECA Broadband DECA and SWM when the installer pulled them out of the box. I knew that DTV would use my internet connection for OD but I thought it just be an ethernet cable run from the route to the DVR. I was absolutely discombobulated when the installer started pulling all this crap out to connect. I guess I just got spoiled by how simple it was to connect the Comcast DVR.

Also how is a SWim A plus? What is it instead of?


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> I can't believe anyone would complain about this feature...


I do use On Demand. Not a lot but I do use it.


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

Red Orc said:


> I was wondering if that feature had an actual name. I like the feature I just don't like the way it's implemented. If I watch say Conspiracy Theory and autopad records the first few minutes of the next show or movie the info banner should change to tell you you're watching the first few minutes of another show not continue to show Conspiracy Theory. There's been a few times when I liked what was recorded in those few minutes but I didn't know what it was because the info banner didn't change.


I disagree, the info banner shouldn't change. The extra two minutes is just added to the recording you are watching, so displaying the name of the recording is accurate.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> ...The only thing I had to connect to the Comcast DVR was one coaxial cable...


This is how it will be going forward with D*. That single coaxial cable can provide up to 8 tuners, and network connectivity.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> Also how is a SWim A plus? What is it instead of?


It's instead of tone & voltage switching. Which requires a homerun to a multiswitch for each tuner utilized.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> 1) SWM
> I HATE this stupid thing. It's bad enough that it's needed at all but I have had two installers and one technical assistant tell me that I can't plug this thing into a surge protector or UPS;It has to be plugged directly into the wall outlet.
> 
> 2)Broadband Decca
> ...


Pretty mild for a rant. You should have been here in late '06. Great rants then were common.

Rich


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

I reserve feelings as strong as _hate_ for things a little bit more heady than TV wiring, and even then it's pretty few and far between that I'm driven to _hate_ anything.
But that's just me


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> This is how it will be going forward with D*. That single coaxial cable can provide up to 8 tuners, and network connectivity.


Outstanding! Bring it on I can't wait!


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

ndole said:


> I reserve feelings as strong as _hate_ for things a little bit more heady than TV wiring, and even then it's pretty few and far between that I'm driven to _hate_ anything.
> But that's just me


OK maybe "hate" is a _little_ strong. Maybe I should have made the title "Things that irritate me about DTV.


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## Taintedahab (Oct 2, 2011)

Red Orc said:


> How is a DECA A plus? Is having a Deca eliminating the need for something else that's even more cumbersome?
> When I originally got DTV I had SD. All I had was two coaxial cables connected to the DVR. I switched to Comcast HD triple play to save money. The only thing I had to connect to the Comcast DVR was one coaxial cable. I went back to DTV and switched to HD because they offered me a free HD DVR. I didn't know and I was not told at the time that I would have all this stuff connected to the DVR. I found out about the DECA Broadband DECA and SWM when the installer pulled them out of the box. I knew that DTV would use my internet connection for OD but I thought it just be an ethernet cable run from the route to the DVR. I was absolutely discombobulated when the installer started pulling all this crap out to connect. I guess I just got spoiled by how simple it was to connect the Comcast DVR.
> 
> Also how is a SWim A plus? What is it instead of?


Unless you have whole home dvr, then you can run an ethernet cable to the receiver. If you do have whole home, then you need the deca. You know how you like how the cable company uses one cable to the dvr. Well, that's swim buddy, it allows mutiple signals to be carried on one cable so you only need one cable to a receiver and get your on demand at the same time. And that's the reason for the broadband deca is to put the internet in your line since the internet doesn't come over the satellite (nor would you want it to) and coupled with the swim negates the need to run an ethernet cable to every single receiver in your house.


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

Red Orc said:


> Outstanding! Bring it on I can't wait!


It's already here now. Depending on how many tuners are already used those who have SWM can add an HR24 or HR34 for example to their system with just one coax connected for Sat, Whole Home DVR and internet connection.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

SWM Power inserters can't be plugged into surge protectors or UPS?
I guess my system shouldn't work then.

Now on SWM16, previously SWM8, have tried SWM-LNB's (3 and 5) and I assure you that they all worked well with the power inserters plugged into surge protectors/UPS.

In fact, I also have a BB DECA plugged into one too.

I think the installers were confusing Power Inserters with EOP (Ethernet over Power) adaptors. You can't send High Speed Ethernet through Home Plug adaptors reliability with surge protectors.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

NR4P said:


> SWM Power inserters can't be plugged into surge protectors or UPS?
> I guess my system shouldn't work then.
> 
> Now on SWM16, previously SWM8, have tried SWM-LNB's (3 and 5) and I assure you that they all worked well with the power inserters plugged into surge protectors/UPS.
> ...


No they didn't. It's right in the D* training not to plug the PIs into anything other than a wall outlet. It's not that it always won't work, it's that it won't always work reliably in every installation/home wiring situation. I've pulled plenty of PIs off of daisy chained power strips and extension cords that remedied a 771a issue.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> dsw2112 said:
> 
> 
> > This is how it will be going forward with D*. That single coaxial cable can provide up to 8 tuners, and network connectivity.
> ...


Actually, that's exactly what SWiM provides. Single wire to each receiver as well as network connectivity between all the receivers/DVRs and even to the internet. If you've got SWiM you've got it all.

Mike


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

ndole said:


> No they didn't. It's right in the D* training not to plug the PIs into anything other than a wall outlet.


Well then who ever created that training is wrong. The SWM PI does work in surge protectors and UPS. I really appreciate having my entire system on UPS, it's great to prevent interruption from minor power issues and sometimes even a full loss of power.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Blurayfan said:


> Well then who ever created that training is wrong. The SWM PI do work in surge protectors and UPS. I really appreciate habing my entire system on UPS, it's great to prevent interruption from minor power issues and sometimes even a full loss of power.


It works at your house. I've seen installations where it didn't. So no, it's not wrong.

Maybe they should task you with coming up with the new hire training. You're obviously an expert. Might as well earn something for your expertise.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Let's make sure we stay on topic. Discuss the topic and not each other...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

ndole said:


> It works at your house. I've seen installations where it didn't. So no, it's not wrong.
> 
> Maybe they should task you with coming up with the new hire training. You're obviously an expert. Might as well earn something for your expertise.


No, not an expert, just know that it is working without any issue here. Maybe the installs that had the issue had a faulty surge protector or UPS that caused the PI to not function.

I feel it's wrong to say it only works that way, now if it was said as being the preferred way to prevent problems in the future that's different.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

ndole said:


> No they didn't. It's right in the D* training not to plug the PIs into anything other than a wall outlet. It's not that it always won't work, it's that it won't always work reliably in every installation/home wiring situation. I've pulled plenty of PIs off of daisy chained power strips and extension cords that remedied a 771a issue.





Blurayfan said:


> Well then who ever created that training is wrong. The SWM PI does work in surge protectors and UPS. I really appreciate having my entire system on UPS, it's great to prevent interruption from minor power issues and sometimes even a full loss of power.





ndole said:


> It works at your house. I've seen installations where it didn't. So no, it's not wrong.
> 
> Maybe they should task you with coming up with the new hire training. You're obviously an expert. Might as well earn something for your expertise.


Daisy chaining surge devices is different than never using one.

But technically it shouldn't make a difference because the PI's are not modulating anything over the power lines. I've seen examples where people don't know their surge suppressors have taken a hit (compounded if daisy chained) because one did what they were supposed to and no longer work, but also protected equipment plugged in. Or someone flipped the switch off so it failed.

Or possibly this is a carry over from the early MRV days when EOP was sold by Directv.

Whatever the case, surge protectors and UPS's are great tools for protecting the Directv systems and if Directv doesn't want to promote that, it is certainly their choice.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Blurayfan said:


> No, not an expert, just know that it is working without any issue here. Maybe the installs that had the issue had a faulty surge protector or UPS that caused the PI to not function.
> 
> I feel it's wrong to say it only works that way,
> 
> ...


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## Taintedahab (Oct 2, 2011)

Blurayfan said:


> Well then who ever created that training is wrong.  The SWM PI does work in surge protectors and UPS. I really appreciate having my entire system on UPS, it's great to prevent interruption from minor power issues and sometimes even a full loss of power.


Technically you could also dump a handfull of sand into the crankcase of your car and it will work......for a while. But eventually the situation will catch up with the equipment and fark it up.

Just because it's working for you *now* doesn't mean it's working in the recommended fashion or that's it's going to keep working later.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

The power inserter is just a power supply cube. I have had my DirecTv system plugged into a UPS since DirecTv first came out in the 90's, and never had an issue using a UPS. 

Ive never put sand in my crankcase, however.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NR4P said:


> SWM Power inserters can't be plugged into surge protectors or UPS?
> I guess my system shouldn't work then.


I called Tripplite a few months ago and asked them about UPS with surge protectors. The tech I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with using surge protectors with UPS devices. Just "overkill".

My system is just loaded with surge protectors, only because I like their physical configuration. And my DECA system is, of course, plugged into a UPS.

Gotta face the facts, with very few exceptions, D* has very few people that are Techs, just installers who are poorly trained and anything is liable to come out of their mouths. Lemmings take them at their word, WE should all know better.

Same thing is true of CSRs. My apologies to the good guys and gals who know what they are doing, this is just a general opinion/observation.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ndole said:


> It works at your house. I've seen installations where it didn't. So no, it's not wrong.
> 
> Maybe they should task you with coming up with the new hire training. You're obviously an expert. Might as well earn something for your expertise.


Shouldn't be any problems using surge protectors or UPS devices. I don't know what kind of training you've gotten, but call up the manufacturers of UPS devices and they'll give you the right answers.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Taintedahab said:


> Technically you could also dump a handfull of sand into the crankcase of your car and it will work......for a while. But eventually the situation will catch up with the equipment and fark it up.
> 
> Just because it's working for you *now* doesn't mean it's working in the recommended fashion or that's it's going to keep working later.


And yet I've got an MRV system that even the Tech that installed it insisted it wouldn't work. When we got thru installing it, he couldn't believe it worked. Not how we were trained to install MRV, he said. He had D*'s training to back him up, I had *VOS* to back me up. When the Tech left he was really happy with what he'd learned and asked me to make sure I thanked "My buddy in CA for the info and the prints." He was the first D* Tech I met that I thought was worthy of the title. Smart guy, willing to learn. Mark of intelligence.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Rich said:


> I called Tripplite a few months ago and asked them about UPS with surge protectors. The tech I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with using surge protectors with UPS devices. Just "overkill".
> 
> My system is just loaded with surge protectors, only because I like their physical configuration. And my DECA system is, of course, plugged into a UPS.
> 
> ...


In this case it's not a matter of an installer saying something blindly to a subscriber. As ndole pointed out above it's in in the training documentation so from that standpoint it's required. We just don't know why but that doesn't change fact that DIRECTV requires the PI to be plugged into a wall outlet.

Mike


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't think _ made my meaning completely clear. When I had Comcast the one coaxial cable was the only thing that was connected to the DVR. I didn't have three devices daisy chained together which terminated in only one cable being connected to the DVR. When I set up my Comcast DVR I followed these steps :
1)Disconnect coaxial cable from cable internet modem and reconnect to input on supplied splitter.
2)Connect one coaxial cable from output of splitter and connect other end to to internet/phone modem
3)Connect one coaxial cable to 2nd splitter output and connect other end to DVR
4)Enjoy watching TV because you are DONE 
Nowhere in that process did I have to connect any thing like a SWim ,DECA or anything else - I ran one coaxial cable from the splitter to the DVR and that was it.
Having a Broadband DECA connected to a SWiM which is itself connected to A DECA which is connected to the DVR via one coaxial cable is a VERY big annoyance and inconvenience. I love DTV but if I had known I would have all this crap daisy chained together and taking up outlets then I probably would have stuck with Comcast.

PS
I would like to thank every one for the information and opinions you've given ,especially the the Broadband DECA. I really don't know why the installer thought I needed that (&*^&^%$%^$#$&*^ thing. I asked him if I could just run an ethernet cable to the DVR and I'm sure he said no. Now I just need to order a longer ethernet cable._


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

There really isn't much left to say then. Even on a new install with an HR24, and 3 H25's there will still be a SWM Power Inserter, and a broadband DECA (since the OP uses on-demand.) Then, of course, there's the dish itself; can't believe that daisy-chained item didn't draw any ire 

If that's too many extranious items then D* probably isn't the choice for you...


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> PS
> I would like to thank every one for the information and opinions you've given ,especially the the Broadband DECA. I really don't know why the installer thought I needed that (&*^&^%$%^$#$&*^ thing. I asked him if I could just run an ethernet cable to the DVR and I'm sure he said no. Now I just need to order a longer ethernet cable.


BTW, I don't know what your exact setup is (and if you have Whole Home DVR,) but if you disconnect the broadband DECA (and hook ethernet to your DVR) it will no longer be available for Whole Home unless you then run ethernet to every other receiver.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Rich said:


> I called Tripplite a few months ago and asked them about UPS with surge protectors. The tech I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with using surge protectors with UPS devices. Just "overkill".
> 
> My system is just loaded with surge protectors, only because I like their physical configuration. And my DECA system is, of course, plugged into a UPS.
> 
> ...





Rich said:


> Shouldn't be any problems using surge protectors or UPS devices. I don't know what kind of training you've gotten, but call up the manufacturers of UPS devices and they'll give you the right answers.
> 
> Rich


I have PLENTY of training FYI. And while the particular implementation of the Official Directv Training Program through our company isn't 'everything it could be', it's certainly more than adequate with a decent instructor. In addition to a laundry list of certifications that I maintain, I have 5yrs of personal field experience and I spend a great deal of personal time enriching my skills through outlets like DBSTalk.

Targeting me by using statements regarding "Technicians as a whole" may technically be within the forum rules, but you're not fooling anyone.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet about all this is the fact that this technology DECA SWiM BBDECA, etc was designed to be backwards compatible with older receivers that did not have this built in. I don't see why this is such a big deal? DIRECTV saw a need and did the R&D keeping "legacy equipment" in mind and developed a superior system that did not require the replacement of say millions of "legacy" receivers to use the new technology. So you have a DECA off the back of your HR20, have to put a BBDECA to your router but by doing that and not having to replace all of your receivers you get to use the latest technology and the benefits that come with it. When you compare DIRECTV to COMCAST your comparing apples to oranges as far as the technology that is inside of the receivers. DIRECTV has made a product that delivers satellite signals, Shares recorded programs, internet connectivity all through 1 cable and as included legacy receivers in that. What is the BIG deal with that? Can you imagine the costs that would be handed to the existing customer if you had to change all of your receivers with ones that had this built in? And all those recordings on them that people like to keep? I think I'll take the small box of the back of my receivers that don't have it built in. I appalled DIRECTV for implementing new technology that includes legacy equipment. I see nothing but positives about the new technology.


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## ChicagoBlue (Apr 29, 2011)

Richierich said:


> Well, if you want to Pay a lot more for your Directv then they could give you everything you ask for. They are in the process continually negotiating for these Channels but if the Content Providers are trying to Stiff Directv and Directv doesn't want to pass along Excess Fees to their Customers then they put off signing a Contract until the Price comes down much like the NFL, NBA, NBL does during Negotiations.


Price is always an issue, but don't shortchange bandwidth which is every bit an issue at DTV, but they are working on that aspect.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> BTW, I don't know what your exact setup is (and if you have Whole Home DVR,) but if you disconnect the broadband DECA (and hook ethernet to your DVR) it will no longer be available for Whole Home unless you then run ethernet to every other receiver.


No,I don't have whole home DVR and don't remember telling anyone at DTV that I was even thinking about getting it. I don't know why the installers thought I needed a Broadband DECA


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> No,I don't have whole home DVR and don't remember telling anyone at DTV that I was even thinking about getting it. I don't know why the installers thought I needed a Broadband DECA


Well, you said you use on-demand. While you can run ethernet cables to receivers for this ability, D* technicians aren't in the IT business. The correct way for them to install it is to use a broadband DECA. And as I'm told it's now a requirment for them to install a CCK (broadband DECA.) For those reasons you received a broadband DECA.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

I've never heard of a customer complaining about being given too much functionality 

I've seen everything :lol:


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> Well, you said you use on-demand. While you can run ethernet cables to receivers for this ability, D* technicians aren't in the IT business. The correct way for them to install it is to use a broadband DECA. And as I'm told it's now a requirment for them to install a CCK (broadband DECA.) For those reasons you received a broadband DECA.


That's odd. I wonder why they would make something like that mandatory? Seems like they would save themselves a little money by not throwing broadband DECA's at people who don't need or want them.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

ndole said:


> I've never heard of a customer complaining about being given too much functionality
> 
> I've seen everything :lol:


It isn't the functionality I'm complaining about ,it's the cumbersome way they went about implementing it that I'm irritated with.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

There are limits to what they can do short of replacing a very large number of receivers, and making customers mad when they lose their recordings because the box would need swapped out.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Your last rant item sure seems pretty minor to me.

After I finish watching a recorded show I delete it. I usually don't bother waiting for the closing credits or start of the next show, if any.

Now if the DVR cut off the end of a recorded show too soon I would be a lot more concerned.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> It isn't the functionality I'm complaining about ,it's the cumbersome way they went about implementing it that I'm irritated with.


Actually, the way it's currently wired has much less wiring then it used to have.

The old way of doing things with my current three DVRs and one receiver I would require four coax lines from the dish to a multi-switch, two coax lines to each of the DVRs and one to the receiver. Then there's an Ethernet line from each receiver adding four more wires. This was how satellite worked.

Now I have one coax with a DECA wireless adapter inline to the HR24, one coax to the H25, and a coax and a DECA module inline to the HR21 & HR23. It's basically one coax from the dish split to four receivers.

Mike


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

billsharpe said:


> Your last rant item sure seems pretty minor to me.
> 
> After I finish watching a recorded show I delete it. I usually don't bother waiting for the closing credits or start of the next show, if any.
> 
> Now if the DVR cut off the end of a recorded show too soon I would be a lot more concerned.


What I mean is sometimes I'm almost at the end of watching something and I get distracted by a phone call leave the room for whatever reason and end up staying out of the room longer than I intended (thirty minutes or more). Sometimes I forget to hit pause or stop and by the time I come back the show I was watching is over I've forgotten I was even watching anything and I spent a few seconds trying to figure out why the info banner is wrong. Also like I said earlier there's been a few times when I liked whatever it was that got recorded after that but I didn't know what it was because the credite didn't get recorded.


Mike Bertelson said:


> Actually, the way it's currently wired has much less wiring then it used to have.
> 
> The old way of doing things with my current three DVRs and one receiver I would require four coax lines from the dish to a multi-switch, two coax lines to each of the DVRs and one to the receiver. Then there's an Ethernet line from each receiver adding four more wires. This was how satellite worked.
> 
> ...


The installer would be installing the multi-switch so that wouldn't bother me. Two coaxial lines going to a DVR would not bother me and neither would running an ethernet cable to my DVR. My SD DVR had two coaxial cables connected and it didn't bother me in the least. If I moved the DVR all I had to do was disconnect and the reconnect the two coax. cables. I didn't need to draw a schematic like I would with the present set-up.
I also didn't have to worry about where to plug in yet two more items.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> What I mean is sometimes I'm almost at the end of watching something and I get distracted by a phone call leave the room for whatever reason and end up staying out of the room longer than I intended (thirty minutes or more). Sometimes I forget to hit pause or stop and by the time I come back the show I was watching is over I've forgotten I was even watching anything and I spent a few seconds trying to figure out why the info banner is wrong. Also like I said earlier there's been a few times when I liked whatever it was that got recorded after that but I didn't know what it was because the credite didn't get recorded.
> 
> The installer would be installing the multi-switch so that wouldn't bother me. Two coaxial lines going to a DVR would not bother me and neither would running an ethernet cable to my DVR. My SD DVR had two coaxial cables connected and it didn't bother me in the least. If I moved the DVR all I had to do was disconnect and the reconnect the two coax. cables. I didn't need to draw a schematic like I would with the present set-up.
> I also didn't have to worry about where to plug in yet two more items.


In what sense do you need to draw up a schematic? The DECA goes in-line (it even has written instructions on it as to which way it's supposed to face) and the tiny little ethernet jumper only fits in the holes it's supposed to be plugged into? A child could configure it :lol:


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> Pretty mild for a rant. You should have been here in late '06. Great rants then were common.
> 
> Rich


Ah the memories


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> What I mean is sometimes I'm almost at the end of watching something and I get distracted by a phone call leave the room for whatever reason and end up staying out of the room longer than I intended (thirty minutes or more). Sometimes I forget to hit pause or stop and by the time I come back the show I was watching is over I've forgotten I was even watching anything and I spent a few seconds trying to figure out why the info banner is wrong. Also like I said earlier there's been a few times when I liked whatever it was that got recorded after that but I didn't know what it was because the credite didn't get recorded.
> 
> The installer would be installing the multi-switch so that wouldn't bother me. Two coaxial lines going to a DVR would not bother me and neither would running an ethernet cable to my DVR. My SD DVR had two coaxial cables connected and it didn't bother me in the least. If I moved the DVR all I had to do was disconnect and the reconnect the two coax. cables. I didn't need to draw a schematic like I would with the present set-up.
> I also didn't have to worry about where to plug in yet two more items.


Actually, to move the receiver you disconnect the coax that comes out of the wall, move it to the new location and connect the new coax. That's literally what I did three days ago.

Other than the power cord there wasn't anything else to disconnect/reconnect. :shrug:

Mike


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> The installer would be installing the multi-switch so that wouldn't bother me. Two coaxial lines going to a DVR would not bother me and neither would running an ethernet cable to my DVR. My SD DVR had two coaxial cables connected and it didn't bother me in the least. If I moved the DVR all I had to do was disconnect and the reconnect the two coax. cables. I didn't need to draw a schematic like I would with the present set-up.
> I also didn't have to worry about where to plug in yet two more items.


:shrug:

At this point you're arguing semantics. A multiswitch doesn't bother you, but a SWM PI does. You prefer 2 coax per DVR when 1 is possible. Disconnecting a DVR on a legacy setups means removing three cables (two coax cables per DVR and and ethernet cable for on-demand.) Disconnecting a DVR on a SWM setup involves just one (as you would disconnect the coax from the wall or DECA; leaving the DECA coax and ethernet attached to the receiver.)

This seems to be a lack of understanding of the technology. It may surprise you to know that legacy setups suffer from other issues, and can require extra accessories as well. Since legacy setups work from tone & voltage they are more sensative to the coax used, and need a polarity locker on longer runs (it plugs in just like a SWM PI :eek2: ) SWM performs much better in both conditions and allows networking to areas that may not already have it.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Mike Bertelson said:


> Actually, to move the receiver you disconnect the coax that comes out of the wall, move it to the new location and connect the new coax. That's literally what I did three days ago.
> 
> Other than the power cord there wasn't anything else to disconnect/reconnect. :shrug:
> 
> Mike


I would also have to move the Broadband DECA SWiM & DECA. And make sure there's an outlet for the SWiM. If I plug that thing into a surge protector and need a service call the first thing the technician is going to do is to blame all my problems on the SWiM not being plugged directly into the wall


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> I would also have to move the Broadband DECA SWiM & DECA. And make sure there's an outlet for the SWiM. If I plug that thing into a surge protector and need a service call the first thing the technician is going to do is to blame all my problems on the SWiM not being plugged directly into the wall


When they should really be blaming it on the fact that you removed the PI from the power passing leg of the splitter, and likely connected it to an outlet that's not even connected to your Directv system at all.

Oops, gave you something else to gripe about.
:thats:


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Red Orc said:


> 1) SWM
> I HATE this stupid thing. It's bad enough that it's needed at all but I have had two installers and one technical assistant tell me that I can't plug this thing into a surge protector or UPS;It has to be plugged directly into the wall outlet.
> 
> 2)Broadband Decca
> ...


Hmmm.... I've had a SWM/DECA setup that I did myself up and running since Summer of 2010. Haven't had a single problem. Not one. My Pi is plugged into a surge protector as well.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> :shrug:
> 
> At this point you're arguing semantics. A multiswitch doesn't bother you, but a SWM PI does. You prefer 2 coax per DVR when 1 is possible. Disconnecting a DVR on a legacy setups means removing three cables (two coax cables per DVR and and ethernet cable for on-demand.) Disconnecting a DVR on a SWM setup involves just one (as you would disconnect the coax from the wall or DECA; leaving the DECA coax and ethernet attached to the receiver.)
> 
> This seems to be a lack of understanding of the technology. It may surprise you to know that legacy setups suffer from other issues, and can require extra accessories as well. Since legacy setups work from tone & voltage they are more sensative to the coax used, and need a polarity locker on longer runs (it plugs in just like a SWM PI :eek2: ) SWM performs much better in both conditions and allows networking to areas that may not already have it.


Coaxial cables don't have to be plugged into an outlet. If I had two coaxial cables all I would have to do is screw them into the DVR I wouldn't have to worry about whether or not I have an outlet or space on my surge protector for them. And no a multi switch would not bother me because *the technician would be installing it not me. And the multi switch would most likely be outside out of my way*.
Everyone seems to be completely misunderstanding my complaint. When I had Comcast I had one coaxial cable connected to the DVR. *period*. No SWim ,no DECA ,no broadband DECA -*one coaxial cable* and nothing else. It just shocks me that Comcast can manage without all the added equipment but DTV can't.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Apples and Oranges.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Red Orc said:


> 6)When i record a program I get about three minutes of the program that comes on after that program. What I hate about that is that the info banner doesn't change when that happens. That's really irritating if you forget you're watching a recording and not live TV. You push the info button and the info banner is still saying the program you just watched but the credits just finished on that movie so you know it isn't that so *what the (*(&^*&^( is it?!* What really sucks is when you forget that what you're watching is that 3 minute buffer and you start watching it. And just as you start getting into the show or movie the dialog pops up asking you if you want to delete the recording.
> .


This is actually a pet peeve of mine also. Tivo does the same thing. SageTV, however, doesnt. It stops at the end of the show UNLESS the program was recorded on a channel it is still buffering, in which case, you can happily just keep watching whatever came on after the recording. Handy as heck if you watch shows an hour or two being live. So handy in fact, that even though I have an HR34, and 24, I watch most of my Directv from SageTv over my IP network.

Its great if you pop into a program 15 minutes after it starts, and say, wow, I like this, hit record, then go and hit play. When the show is over, if another one hasnt been scheduled to record at the end time, the buffer happily keeps buffering, and you can happliy just keep watching the next show, and the next show, etc. It just recognizes when you reach the end of your recording, and switches from "recording playback mode" to "delayed buffer watch mode" seamlessly.


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## ricochet (Aug 21, 2006)

Red Orc said:


> It just shocks me that Comcast can manage without all the added equipment but DTV can't.


Follow the Comcast cable to the other end and you will probably be amazed at how much equipment is there. Maybe someday DirecTV will drop really long cables out of the sky and then it will work the same way.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> I would also have to move the Broadband DECA SWiM & DECA. And make sure there's an outlet for the SWiM. If I plug that thing into a surge protector and need a service call the first thing the technician is going to do is to blame all my problems on the SWiM not being plugged directly into the wall


Moving a receiver does not entail moving the SWM PI or broadband DECA. They can stay exactly where they're at.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> Coaxial cables don't have to be plugged into an outlet. If I had two coaxial cables all I would have to do is screw them into the DVR I wouldn't have to worry about whether or not I have an outlet or space on my surge protector for them. And no a multi switch would not bother me because *the technician would be installing it not me. And the multi switch would most likely be outside out of my way*.
> Everyone seems to be completely misunderstanding my complaint. When I had Comcast I had one coaxial cable connected to the DVR. *period*. No SWim ,no DECA ,no broadband DECA -*one coaxial cable* and nothing else. It just shocks me that Comcast can manage without all the added equipment but DTV can't.


Once again, there would be no reason to move anything with a plug (with the exception of the receiver.) SWM PI and BB DECA can stay where they're at. 
I don't think anyone misunderstands your complaint. My question is this; now that you understand the technology a bit more why don't you do away with the components that "aggrevate" you? Remove the broadband, and receiver (white) DECA's -- then run ethernet to your receivers. That leaves you "just" a coaxial cable at the receiver. Of course there's still that "stupid" SWM PI :lol:

P.S. Comcast can manage because the functionality is not the same  I hate that "stupid" green box in my back yard for the cable. I'd take a broadband DECA over that any day


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> ,,,And no a multi switch would not bother me because *the technician would be installing it not me. And the multi switch would most likely be outside out of my way*


Not sure what a tech installing the multiswitch has to do with anything -- you said a tech installed your current setup. The cable company's big green box is outside; bothers the hell outta me...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

ricochet said:


> Follow the Comcast cable to the other end and you will probably be amazed at how much equipment is there.


You're right about that. In our neighborhood where are the utilities are underground, in the front yard of every other house is a 2' tall Comcast box. And every third one of those is 3' tall. I'd rather have the wires hidden behind my TV than out front where they are a real eyesore and a pain to mow around.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Am I right to assume that the green boxes that several of you have mentioned are only in neighborhoods which have utilities undergrounded? Were there municipal hearing about this? 

I live in a small city where some neighborhoods are undergrounded; others are not. I haven't spotted any boxes, but tomorrow I will look for them. Next to houses, or more street side?


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

ricochet said:


> Follow the Comcast cable to the other end and you will probably be amazed at how much equipment is there. Maybe someday DirecTV will drop really long cables out of the sky and then it will work the same way.


You are still _completely _ missing my point. None of that equipment you are talking about is in my house or in my bedroom getting in my way or taking up outlets or slots on my surge protectors.
I'm not talking about equipment outside the house or at Comcast's or DTV's area. I'm talking about equipment INSIDE the house.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> It just shocks me that Comcast can manage without all the added equipment but DTV can't.





Red Orc said:


> You are still _completely _ missing my point. None of that equipment you are talking about is in my house or in my bedroom getting in my way or taking up outlets or slots on my surge protectors.
> I'm not talking about equipment outside the house or at Comcast's or DTV's area. I'm talking about equipment INSIDE the house.


I don't think we're missing your point; just wanted to point out that they both have more hardware than just one coax; they are just located in different locations.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Based on some of the comments here, to put it in the OPs own words, some would be rated a T0.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> Once again, there would be no reason to move anything with a plug (with the exception of the receiver.) SWM PI and BB DECA can stay where they're at.
> I don't think anyone misunderstands your complaint. My question is this; now that you understand the technology a bit more why don't you do away with the components that "aggrevate" you? Remove the broadband, and receiver (white) DECA's -- then run ethernet to your receivers. That leaves you "just" a coaxial cable at the receiver. Of course there's still that "stupid" SWM PI :lol:
> 
> P.S. Comcast can manage because the functionality is not the same  I hate that "stupid" green box in my back yard for the cable. I'd take a broadband DECA over that any day





dsw2112 said:


> Not sure what a tech installing the multiswitch has to do with anything -- you said a tech installed your current setup. The cable company's big green box is outside; bothers the hell outta me...





trh said:


> You're right about that. In our neighborhood where are the utilities are underground, in the front yard of every other house is a 2' tall Comcast box. And every third one of those is 3' tall. I'd rather have the wires hidden behind my TV than out front where they are a real eyesore and a pain to mow around.





Laxguy said:


> Am I right to assume that the green boxes that several of you have mentioned are only in neighborhoods which have utilities undergrounded? Were there municipal hearing about this?
> 
> I live in a small city where some neighborhoods are undergrounded; others are not. I haven't spotted any boxes, but tomorrow I will look for them. Next to houses, or more street side?


What is this "big green box" you guys are talking about? I don't have any "big green box". Not in the front yard and not in the back yard either. In fact I have not seen any kind of "big green box" any where in any of the neighborhoods I drive through every day.
When I started out all I had was internet through Comcast. That was installed by Comcast. All the technician did was to run a coaxial cable into the house. There was no "big green box installed"
When I briefly added Comcast HD this was a self-install. Comcast did not come to my house and install a "big green box" or any thing else. They shipped me a DVR ,a splitter ,and an internet/phone modem.
The only Comcast equipment outside thwe house is one coaxial cable coming from the power pole. That cable is connected to a ground and then goes into the house. The only box I had to deal with when I had Comcast HD was the DVR 

Could this "big green box" be something that's only necessary if there are a lot of Comcast customers in a given area?
Nearly all I see for miles and miles around my house is satellite dishes.
Dozens and dozens of satellite dishes. 
Satellite dishes on houses. 
Satellite dishes on poles.
Satellite dishes on trees
Satellite dishes on garages...
Satellite is _*VERY*_ popular in Merrillville.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

trh said:


> I don't think we're missing your point; just wanted to point out that they both have more hardware than just one coax; they are just located in different locations.


When I had Comcast HD the only thing in my yard was 1 coaxial cable.
The coaxial cable come into the house and was connected to a splitter. One end of the splitter was connected to the phone/internet modem and the other end was connected to the DVR. That is the only equipment I had inside AND outside the house.
I'm not talking about equipment miles away from me that I never see. I'm talking about equipment in the house that I have to look at every day.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Again, we have underground utilities in my neighborhood and when you get Comcast, they open one of these boxes and run the cable to the house. Days later another crew shows up to bury the cable from the box to your house. They used to have filters in these distribution nodes that controlled your premium channels. I'm not sure if that is still how they do that. The same equipment I have in my green boxes are on your poles...and poles...and poles...and poles. . I'm only sorry you weren't on this forum before you shifted from cable.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

trh said:


> Again, we have underground utilities in my neighborhood and when you get Comcast, they open one of these boxes and run the cable to the house. Days later another crew shows up to bury the cable from the box to your house. They used to have filters in these distribution nodes that controlled your premium channels. I'm not sure if that is still how they do that. The same equipment I have in my green boxes are on your poles...and poles...and poles...and poles. . I'm only sorry you weren't on this forum before you shifted from cable.


There's no box on the power pole either.
And yes those 17,000,000 power poles are _UGLY_


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Am I right to assume that the green boxes that several of you have mentioned are only in neighborhoods which have utilities undergrounded? Were there municipal hearing about this?
> 
> I live in a small city where some neighborhoods are undergrounded; others are not. I haven't spotted any boxes, but tomorrow I will look for them. Next to houses, or more street side?


I've only seen this boxes where utilities are underground. Municiple hearing? I don't know but I think it was the developer who when he designed and built this community had this technology installed. All the boxes I have seen are between the sidewalk and the street, so much closer to the street. And we also have Bellsouth telephone boxes and power transformers in various yards. But it is cleaner than having poles run through the subdivision. IMO.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> There's no box on the power pole either.


I'm just guessing here, but I don't think you have one dedicated coax that runs from Comcast directly to your house. There will be splitters and probably amplifiers located on the poles to get that signal to your house.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

trh said:


> I'm just guessing here, but I don't think you have one dedicated coax that runs from Comcast directly to your house. There will be splitters and probably amplifiers located on the poles to get that signal to your house.


Maybe it's one of the other poles?
Nearly all of my neighbors seem to have either DTV or DISH. Maybe they don't need as many boxes if they don't have as many customers in a given area?


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Why would anyone hate SWM? SWM is sweet if it wasn't for that it would require a home run to all my DVR's for the 2nd tuner since you wouldn't be able to use the already ran RG6 for two tuners. DECA is also awesome, I haven't had 1 hiccup with it and it works flawless for MRV I love it. I was part of the beta for MRV and unless you were directly hard wired in MRV sucked. Powerline was terrible & so was wireless. 

As far as tech support goes, I avoid calling any kind of tech support unless I absolutely have to. Most of the time when I call it's because I have already done everything in my power to fix a problem so it's usually more of a complex issue which makes it way more frustrating calling tech support. You gotta remember most people calling tech support are morons who half the time don't know how to switch tv inputs. 

I'm not sure what kinda system your looking for but DECA & SWM are absolutely fantastic.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> I'm not talking about equipment outside the house or at Comcast's or DTV's area. I'm talking about equipment INSIDE the house.


I think you missed the point. The big green box was a bit of "back at you." And no, not everyone has one, but not everyone has DECA either. DECA can be removed; my comcast box in the yard can't be...

While you dislike equipment in the house, some dislike equipment outside more. The point -- you can complain about any technology; you just happen to dislike the D* implementation. To make your argument true, you would also have to acknowledge other's opinions of "shortfalls" in Comcast, Dish, etc. To not do so turns your argument into a fallacy.

What I didn't see is your response to


> My question is this; now that you understand the technology a bit more why don't you do away with the components that "aggrevate" you? Remove the broadband, and receiver (white) DECA's -- then run ethernet to your receivers.


If you remove your DECA your setup would simply be a single coax at each receiver (with the SWM PI of course.) If you decide to go back to a legacy setup you will require a multiswitch (which you've mentioned doesn't bother you), but also B Band converters at each receiver that's not a Hx23. The B Band converters look just like a DECA.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> ...If I moved the DVR all I had to do was disconnect and the reconnect the two coax. cables...


It's also important to note when moving a DVR on a legacy system that the new location requires those two coaxial cables. Many homes are not wired in this manner, but if yours is -- great! For many, SWM circumvents the need to homerun a second coaxial cable when moving a DVR.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Red Orc, this is from an Email from Ellen Filipiak who is Senior Vice President for Customer Service.

"Above all else, we strive to bring you the best selection of movies, sporting events and television channels. Annually, the owners of these TV channels increase the fees they charge to DIRECTV for the right to broadcast their content. As a result, DIRECTV must periodically adjust the pricing and channel lineups of some of our programming packages so that we can keep these channels in your package."

This explains why Directv has to increase Prices and why some Channels are still in SD instead of HD because Directv can't negotiate a reasonable rate for the HD Version.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

dsw2112 said:


> I think you missed the point. The big green box was a bit of "back at you." And no, not everyone has one, but not everyone has DECA either. DECA can be removed; my comcast box in the yard can't be...
> 
> While you dislike equipment in the house, some dislike equipment outside more. The point -- you can complain about any technology; you just happen to dislike the D* implementation. To make your argument true, you would also have to acknowledge other's opinions of "shortfalls" in Comcast, Dish, etc. To not do so turns your argument into a fallacy.
> 
> ...


I just ordered an extra long ethernet cable yesterday. I'm just waiting for it to ship 
No a multiswitch really wouldn't bother me because it's _outside_.
Would the B Band converter have to be plugged in?
If it has to be plugged in I wouldn't want it. If it can just be tucked behind the DVR I really wouldn't care.
No one has said anything about the plusses or minuses of DISH so I can't comment on them.
The only negative any one has given about Comcast is a "big green box" which I don't have.
If someone were to post a negative about Comcast that actually applies to the installation I had I would be more than happy to comment.

I have to admit I was kind of blowing off the posters who didn't like having equipment outside. Sorry about that guys.
I concede that point. Some would rather have equipment in the house ,some would rather have equipment outside.

Also the reason I was irritated about having more things to plug in is because at any given moment I might have the following plugged in in that room :
18650 battery charger ,bluetooth headset charger ,Verizon phone charger ,Sprint phone charger ,PS3 ,DVR ,SWiM ,alarm clock ,blu ray player ,TV powered speakers for TV ,Ryobi 18V battery charger ,coffee maker ,cordless phone ,powered toothbrush charger ,Comcast phone/internet modem ,wireless modem ,laptop ,PC ,powered speakers for PC ,monitor ,printer ,& scanner plus whatever other miscellaneous junk I might need to plug in temporarily.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm beginning to wonder if I should start another post titled "What I love about DTV" so I can post something positive for a change.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if I should start another post titled "What I love about DTV" so I can post something positive for a change.


Complaining is not a bad thing  I have done my fair share of complaining about D*. Ironically my first post around here is was why isn't SWM used in residential installs (this was back when SWM was used in MDU's only.) I got jumped on pretty hard, and was told that was never going to happen :sure:


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Red Orc said:


> Would the B Band converter have to be plugged in?


No, they hang off the back of the receivers just like the white DECA's. You do need two BBC's on a DVR (one for each tuner.)



Red Orc said:


> Also the reason I was irritated about having more things to plug in is because at any given moment I might have the following plugged in in that room :


You can move the SWM PI to a location that's more convenient. It just needs a power outlet, and coax to feed power to the Dish LNB. If you wish to do this just ask, and we can walk you through the specifics related to your setup.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> I haven't spotted any boxes, but tomorrow I will look for them. Next to houses, or more street side?


Near the curb. I just searched but couldn't find a picture of one online, which was surprising -- maybe I just didn't come up with the correct keywords.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Wow – I’m having a hard time beating up on DirecTV here… Red Orc – I’m very critical of DirecTV most of the time. They do have some serious issues, in my opinion anyway, in the engineering department but your rants seem a little extreme to me!

Sure some of the cables are a pain, some of the CSRs leave much to be desired but wow – that is quite a rant you having going on there!

Best of luck!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

trainman said:


> Near the curb. I just searched but couldn't find a picture of one online, which was surprising -- maybe I just didn't come up with the correct keywords.


They are sometimes called street cabinets. This isn't for cable, but I think they basically look the same, though some are larger.

http://stopthecap.com/2011/07/27/at...rse-cabinets-on-the-streets-of-san-francisco/

This is the inside of one for Virgin Media in the UK
http://chriswoods.co.uk/2010/01/photos-inside-a-virgin-media-cable-street-cabinet/


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> I would also have to move the Broadband DECA SWiM & DECA. And make sure there's an outlet for the SWiM. If I plug that thing into a surge protector and need a service call the first thing the technician is going to do is to blame all my problems on the SWiM not being plugged directly into the wall


I believe you're making it more difficult than it needs to be. I assume by moving/plugging in SWiM you mean the Power Inserter (PI). There's no need to move it. The PI needs to be connected to the SWiM Module but as long as it's properly installed it doesn't matter where it is. Just because you move a receiver that has the PI in line with it doesn't mean you have to move the PI. You just need to disconnect the coax from the DECA attached to the receiver (or directly from the receiver if you have an H24/25, HR24, HR34) and plug it in somewhere else that has coax. It really is simple as that.

It's the same thing for the Broadband DECA. Once it's correctly installed there is no reason to move it just because you move a receiver.

Neither the Broadband DECA nor the Power Inserter need be inline with a receiver/DVR. All you need to do is have the installer put the PI and Broadband DECA where you want them so they're not inline with a receiver/DVR. Then moving a receiver will be just as easy as it was with you cable company.

Here is some good info. If you read through the threads that interest you you'll find all the info you need.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=117744

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ndole said:


> I have PLENTY of training FYI. And while the particular implementation of the Official Directv Training Program through our company isn't 'everything it could be', it's certainly more than adequate with a decent instructor. In addition to a laundry list of certifications that I maintain, I have 5yrs of personal field experience and I spend a great deal of personal time enriching my skills through outlets like DBSTalk.
> 
> Targeting me by using statements regarding "Technicians as a whole" may technically be within the forum rules, but you're not fooling anyone.


Targeting you? I don't even know who you are. Sorry if I offended you.

Rich


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - I'm having a hard time beating up on DirecTV here&#8230; Red Orc - I'm very critical of DirecTV most of the time. They do have some serious issues, in my opinion anyway, in the engineering department but your rants seem a little extreme to me!
> 
> Sure some of the cables are a pain, some of the CSRs leave much to be desired but wow - that is quite a rant you having going on there!
> 
> Best of luck!


I think I just needed to vent...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

trainman said:


> Near the curb. I just searched but couldn't find a picture of one online, which was surprising -- maybe I just didn't come up with the correct keywords.


Is this in a development, possibly? It occurred to me that perhaps when infrastructure was put in, a box was set in to allow for (whatever)-cable or FIOS-connections were needed.

Is it possible they are not really Comcast boxes, although they may be used only by them in a particular neighborhood?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dpeters11 said:


> They are sometimes called street cabinets. This isn't for cable, but I think they basically look the same, though some are larger.
> 
> http://stopthecap.com/2011/07/27/at...rse-cabinets-on-the-streets-of-san-francisco/


Ah, thanks. So they could be for phone, cable, FIOS or all three. Could be installed by a municipality doing undergrounding, or a developer doing same. Basically a distribution hub, no? 
Could even feed a cell tower with power. Some might be built for electric. (?)


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## Rtm (Oct 18, 2011)

Just rip the SWM out and throw out the DECA(s). Call and ask for a LNB dish.

Seriously all the stuff works and you shouldn't have to touch it ever, figure out what you're going to do when you get a new receiver not now.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

trainman said:


> Near the curb. I just searched but couldn't find a picture of one online, which was surprising -- maybe I just didn't come up with the correct keywords.


Could you post a snap? I drove around my town, couldn't see a one, and then talked to one of the City managers who oversees that stuff. Everything is conduited separately! (In select neighborhoods), so one for PG&E, one for Comcast, and one for ATT- though no U-Verse here. Everything is underground, and access appears to be only at street corners.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

In my neighborhood, the only cable is Time Warner (no U-verse, no Fios). I do not even subscribe to cable, but I have one of their small boxes in my front yard. There is a small box for about every four houses and a large box on every street.

In the picture of the "large box", the box on the left is the telephone, and the box on the right is Time Warner Cable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Could you post a snap? I drove around my town, couldn't see a one, and then talked to one of the City managers who oversees that stuff. Everything is conduited separately! (In select neighborhoods), so one for PG&E, one for Comcast, and one for ATT- though no U-Verse here. Everything is underground, and access appears to be only at street corners.


That's what you get for living in CA....:lol:

We've got those boxes all over the place here. On utility poles, on the ground, altho we don't do as much underground dispersion of wiring in NJ as some places do. Underground wiring is neat, but thirty years up the road from the installation problems usually start occurring and you end up digging lines up and that gets expensive.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> That's what you get for living in CA....:lol:
> 
> We've got those boxes all over the place here. On utility poles, on the ground, altho we don't do as much underground dispersion of wiring in NJ as some places do. Underground wiring is neat, but thirty years up the road from the installation problems usually start occurring and you end up digging lines up and that gets expensive.


The City manager told me that every danged thing was in a concrete conduit box, so no digging. Dunno if they left pull wires there, and do wonder if ATT will every get in there to bring us fibre. Then I could say bye-bye to Comcast.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> The City manager told me that every danged thing was in a concrete conduit box, so no digging. Dunno if they left pull wires there, and do wonder if ATT will every get in there to bring us fibre. Then I could say bye-bye to Comcast.


And the wires go from the box to the houses...how?

AT&T is running fiber optic lines there?

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> And the wires go from the box to the houses...how?
> 
> AT&T is running fiber optic lines there?
> 
> Rich


No, we aren't getting fi-os here that I can see.

Wires are conduited to the house. So if something goes wrong, and it's not at the house, and not at the big buried junction box, I guess they pull a new wire using the defective one.... or bring out the diggers. :nono2:


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Rich said:
 

> Underground wiring is neat, but thirty years up the road from the installation problems usually start occurring and you end up digging lines up and that gets expensive.


If you lived further south on the eastern seaboard you would appreciate underground wiring much more. Asthetics aside, underground lines are far more practicle down here. It might be expensive to replace burried lines every 20 to 30 years, but it is even more expensive to replace poles and lines every time there is a hurricane or ice storm.  Ice does not build up on underground wires, trees do not fall on them, and they do not snap in 125 mph winds.

BTW, Unless the price of copper gets higher than it is today, they do not dig up the old lines - they just lay new ones. I have at least three telephone lines running to my house. The most recent one was installed after my neighbor installed a sprinkler system and cut my phone line in several places. It was less expensive to lay a new line than it was to try to find and repair the cuts on the original line.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> No, we aren't getting fi-os here that I can see.


So, is AT&T putting up a fiber optic network or what are they doing?



> Wires are conduited to the house. So if something goes wrong, and it's not at the house, and not at the big buried junction box, I guess they pull a new wire using the defective one.... or bring out the diggers. :nono2:


Usually pretty difficult to pull wires thru conduit underground unless the pipe is laid in a straight line. We had a lot of problems with underground wiring at the place I worked. But I guess they use PVC piping now and that should last a lot longer underground than conduit. The big problem is water. Spent almost 30 years in a chemical plant environment with all kinds of toxic and just nasty fluids and what fluid did we have the most problems with...water. Conduit comes in 10' lengths and it is hard to keep the water out. I'd think a properly glued PVC installation would hold up much better over time underground.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fleckrj said:


> If you lived further south on the eastern seaboard you would appreciate underground wiring much more. Asthetics aside, underground lines are far more practicle down here. It might be expensive to replace burried lines every 20 to 30 years, but it is even more expensive to replace poles and lines every time there is a hurricane or ice storm.  Ice does not build up on underground wires, trees do not fall on them, and they do not snap in 125 mph winds.


Point well taken. We don't have much problems with hurricanes, too far inland. We did have a rough time last Halloween when that storm dumped all that wet snow on the lines and brought them down North of here. We weren't affected, but many folks were.



> BTW, Unless the price of copper gets higher than it is today, they do not dig up the old lines - they just lay new ones. I have at least three telephone lines running to my house. The most recent one was installed after my neighbor installed a sprinkler system and cut my phone line in several places. It was less expensive to lay a new line than it was to try to find and repair the cuts on the original line.


Don't you have the utility companies come out and check for underground piping before you dig? We have to do that. Gotta wonder how they'd check for plastic piping tho.

Rich


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Rich said:


> Don't you have the utility companies come out and check for underground piping before you dig? We have to do that. Gotta wonder how they'd check for plastic piping tho.


They came out and marked all of the utilities, but in this case, the installers could not tell the difference between the paint that marked my phone line and the paint that marked the line they were supposed to trench to lay the irrigation pipe. A telephone line is no match for a ditch witch.

This time it was just incompetent installers. The usual reason lines get cut is that the lines are not at their proper depth. I do not remember the pecking order, but there is a minimum depth for telephone, electric, gas, and water, and each has its own depth zone. Cable TV is not supposed to be deep enough to hit any of these. The problem comes when the lines to new houses are laid before the final landscaping is done, and the landscapers change the grade of the property. In some places, lines that should be 12 inches deep are 3 inches deep, and in other places they are 36 inches deep.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> So, is AT&T putting up a fiber optic network or what are they doing?
> *
> Good question. I sure don't know what they are doing, and maybe they don't either! But they don't seem to be pulling cables.
> *
> ...


*I was told that the conduits here are concrete, 24 x 36 perhaps. About half the town is buried, so to speak, and we poor folk-the less fortunate in a rich community- have to look at poles and boxes on them and wires.... (so, boo-hooo to/for me!)* :nono2:


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

"Richierich" said:


> DECA (Directv Ethernet Coaxial Adapter) which allows you to use your Coax as an Ethernet Cable and it works much better with WHDVR Service than your Own LAN Network.


No really, unless you have a HORRIBLE LAN. My networked worked better wirelessly than my DECA set-up after pulling teeth to get a discount on it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

gio12 said:


> No really, unless you have a HORRIBLE LAN. My networked worked better wirelessly than my DECA set-up after pulling teeth to get a discount on it.


Isn't that amazing how some things work for some but don't work for others.

My WHDVR worked okay with my LAN but on occasion I would get the No Audio/Video Packets Received Error Message when trying to Playback a Recording.

I Never get it using DECA and it works Flawlessly now which makes me a Happy Camper.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I prefer DECA to regular ethernet. 

What problems are you having with your networked TVs?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:



> *I was told that the conduits here are concrete, 24 x 36 perhaps. About half the town is buried, so to speak, and we poor folk-the less fortunate in a rich community- have to look at poles and boxes on them and wires.... (so, boo-hooo to/for me!)* :nono2:


The box (junction box is proper, I think) might be that big. Usually, the junction boxes are directly below those ugly boxes that sit on lawns. The ugly boxes are where the connections are made.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> Isn't that amazing how some things work for some but don't work for others.
> 
> My WHDVR worked okay with my LAN but on occasion I would get the No Audio/Video Packets Received Error Message when trying to Playback a Recording.
> 
> I Never get it using DECA and it works Flawlessly now which makes me a Happy Camper.


Probably because of the number of HRs you had on the Ethernet system. I had the same problems. DECA cured that. From what I saw, if you only had three or four HRs on Ethernet the system worked well. Try to put twelve on it and it just couldn't pick them all up. Not that DECA picks up all twelve on each HR, but it comes pretty close after a full system reboot.

Rich


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## Old_School (Nov 29, 2011)

Every new development that i have seen build since about the mid to late 90's has had underground utilities here. Even the older ones that don't, with Verizon laying fiber optic like its going out of style are becoming underground.. i seen in a few of the older ones when Verizon opens up a hole Comcast and First Energy and quick to make a "while you have the hole open, mind if we run a few lines" deal. Not sure how much truth there is to it but, i had a developer tell me once that they are now required to have the utilities underground per building codes...


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> My biggest complaint about D* is the whiners it attracts.


Most accurate post in the thread.


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## wallfishman (Dec 31, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> There's no box on the power pole either.
> And yes those 17,000,000 power poles are _UGLY_


The reason you dont have any green boxes in your yard is because you are in an aeriel neighborhood. Your electric, phone, and cable are all run on telephone poles. You dont have the undergound boxes in your yard , but you have the aeriel lines electric, phone and cable that all run from the pole to your house. When I worked at comcast these lines were always a complaint. No new build developments are aeriel anymore

As far as some of the decas, multiswitches, bsfilters, etc and you not liking them, do you have a basement??? If it really bothered you that much most of the stuff could be moved someplace inconspicuous, and still function.


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## Old_School (Nov 29, 2011)

Maybe the OP will get lucky... as i said above (in my area atleast) when Verizon has been digging in the older places for fiber most of the other utilities have been striking a deal to lay there own.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

wallfishman said:


> The reason you dont have any green boxes in your yard is because you are in an aeriel neighborhood. Your electric, phone, and cable are all run on telephone poles.


No. While that may be true of many neighborhoods, undergrounding need not employ any visible boxes.


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## Red Orc (Oct 11, 2011)

Old_School said:


> Maybe the OP will get lucky... as i said above (in my area atleast) when Verizon has been digging in the older places for fiber most of the other utilities have been striking a deal to lay there own.


Nah Verizon doesn't have _ANY_ business in my part of Indiana. I called and tried to get Verizon HSI about two years ago and the person I talked to specifically said that Verizon doesn't do business in my area. I don't know what happened with all the noise our useless governor was making about making stuff like that available in more areas. I guess killing unions and stripping state workers of all their rights pulled him away from stuff like that....


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"Red Orc" said:


> Nah Verizon doesn't have ANY business in my part of Indiana. I called and tried to get Verizon HSI about two years ago and the person I talked to specifically said that Verizon doesn't do business in my area. I don't know what happened with all the noise our useless governor was making about making stuff like that available in more areas. I guess killing unions and stripping state workers of all their rights pulled him away from stuff like that....


Good lord. Get a clue. The Governor never promised Verizon HSI. That's on Verizon. He also never stripped workers of their rights. Now unions can't hold dues for ransom and force employees to pay them as a condition of employment. You need to do your homework and if you want to point fingers...figure out what direction they should actually be pointed.


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Good lord. Get a clue. The Governor never promised Verizon HSI. That's on Verizon. He also never stripped workers of their rights. Now unions can't hold dues for ransom and force employees to pay them as a condition of employment. You need to do your homework and if you want to point fingers...figure out what direction they should actually be pointed.


Spot On!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Remember - this thread is "What I hate about DTV" not "What I hate about {politician}". Please continue without any political comments.


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## skatingrocker17 (Jun 24, 2010)

fleckrj said:


> In my neighborhood, the only cable is Time Warner (no U-verse, no Fios). I do not even subscribe to cable, but I have one of their small boxes in my front yard. There is a small box for about every four houses and a large box on every street.
> 
> In the picture of the "large box", the box on the left is the telephone, and the box on the right is Time Warner Cable.


You will only ever have one cable provider at a time in the U.S.. Time Warner Cable serves our town too but we don't have any of those boxes, it's all on polls but if there's one thing the TWC has it's HD channels and LOTS of them. Almost every single one offered if not all of them.

However, this is only a good thing if you can deal with their cable boxes which I can't. Especially not now that DTV has rolled out their new HD GUI.


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## ts7 (Nov 1, 2011)

"skatingrocker17" said:


> You will only ever have one cable provider at a time in the U.S.


While that is the case in most areas it is not an accurate statement. This is determined by franchise agreements which may or may not grant exclusive access. A community near me was angry with the incumbent cable provider and when the franchise agreement came up for renewal they took the exclusivity provision out resulting in a second provider coming in, building their own cable plant and competing for the same customers. Again this is the exception but it can happen.

With the cable companies providing phone service and the telcos providing TV, is there really a difference? For many in urban/suburban areas there are at least two landline options for both TV and Phone.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

skatingrocker17 said:


> You will only ever have one cable provider at a time in the U.S.


As ts7 said, it just depends on where you live. My parents have the option of FIOS, U-Verse, or Cox. Two of my daughters have the option of FIOS, U-Verse, or Comcast. My other daughter has the option of FIOS or Time Warner. My only option is Time Warner.


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