# DBSTalk First Look: Multi-Room Viewing Opt-in Beta



## Stuart Sweet

You've heard about it... 
You've asked for it...
It's finally here!

Multi-Room Viewing is now possible on the HR2x and H2x series!

With version 0x0395, DIRECTV has started an opt-in, _unsupported_ beta of Multi-Room Viewing!

The Cutting Edge test team is very proud to present this First Look of Multi-Room Viewing (MRV). More than any other First Look, this was a real team effort. I can't even count the number of folks who contributed.

For MRV support, please go to this thread. This is not the support thread for MRV.


Multi-Room Viewing First Look

Please note that some DBSTalk.com testers and staff members may have received free equipment from DIRECTV or its partners for the purpose of evaluation and testing.


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## Doug Brott

DIRECTV has created a web page for sharing information about Multi-Room Viewing that can be found here.

Of particular note is the reference to the "Beta Testing Phase."


> *Beta Testing Phase*
> 
> Please note the DIRECTV Multi-Room HD DVR service is currently in its beta testing phase. During this beta phase, the service will be offered at no charge. Once the service is out of beta and has launched nationally there will be a monthly service fee for the service.
> 
> If your receivers are not currently networked please do not network them to participate in the beta testing phase. Once the service launches nationally there will be a special networking offer available to take advantage of the service.


The "special networking offer" is likely related to the the DIRECTV Ethernet over Coax Adapter (DECA). You can find more information about the DECA here.


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## Doug Brott

A couple of things to consider:


The video streaming from room-to-room can be affected by your home network. Even wired networks can have problems if the router or switch cannot handle a proper continuous data rate.
DIRECTV will be relying on the DIRECT Ethernet over Coax Adapter (DECA) for networking. You must have a SWiM (Single-Wire Multiswitch) device to use the DECA adapter. To check if you have a SWiM installation, simply press the {DASH} key on your remote while viewing Live TV.


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## Doug Brott

0x395 is not yet available as a national release. It will be available very soon.


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## Scott Kocourek

Great Job on the first look, I think people are going to love this feature.


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## BubblePuppy

Very nice looking First Look. Great job.


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## Richierich

Very Nice Piece Of Work with The First Look At MRV!!!

Originally Posted by BubblePuppy:
This is also from the web site: 

"If your receivers are not currently networked please do not network them to participate in the beta testing phase. Once the service launches nationally there will be a special networking offer available to take advantage of the service." 

Almost reads as if that once it goes national you will need DirecTV equipment to have MRV.

Originally Posted by RAD: 
"One rumor was that DirecTV would have an upgrade available to get folks to a DECA netrwork, replacing any hardware necessary, for a fixed price. They may be saying that so folks don't go out and spend a bunch of money pulling wire or wireless/powerline adapters or upgrading receivers when the DECA upgrade might be cheaper, and then having folks upset that they paid more then the upgrade."

Exactly what Directv doesn't want you to do knowing that DECA will be easier to install and will (suppodedly) work better in handling MRV.


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## Mike Bertelson

Another stellar first looks. Great Job! 

Mike


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## dettxw

Beautiful work!
I like it.


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## nino2469

may not be the right place to say this but this will be a monthly charge for something that uses my network?


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## dave29

nino2469 said:


> may not be the right place to say this but this will be a monthly charge for something that uses my network?


No,there will eventually be a fee to enable the Multi Room Viewing software between capable receivers. (after the Opt-In Beta period is over)


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## dave29

BTW, nice First Look guys, as always.


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## Richierich

nino2469 said:


> may not be the right place to say this but this will be a monthly charge for something that uses my network?


Yes, and your DVR uses your Electricity in your house, what a Ripoff. :lol:


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## Doug Brott

The networking solution that DIRECTV will be supporting is the DECA solution which connects the receivers using the Satellite Cabling of your receiver. You must have a SWiM for this to work.

So will it be using your network? No.


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## Lee L

How will they stop you from using Ethernet?

If they somehow do kill it and make you onlyuse DECA that will suck as I bet 90% of their installed base does not have SWM. I have some boxes on SWm and some on a standard switch.


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## nino2469

exactly if I want to use ethernet why is there a fee? And as for the electricity comment, I'm not paying Directv a fee for power so that comment makes no sense.


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## dave29

Lee L said:


> How will they stop you from using Ethernet?


They won't, it sounds like it won't be supported though.

Unless they turn off the ethernet ports via a software release. :lol:


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## Doug Brott

DECA uses the Ethernet ports .. They can't exactly turn them off.


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## Lee L

But iguess they could choose not to activate MRV if you have not bought all the DECA crap at inflated prices.


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## jasonki32

Lee L said:


> But iguess they could choose not to activate MRV if you have not bought all the DECA crap at inflated prices.


I have always found the DirecTV to be reasonable on their networking offerings. Their wireless adapters are at least $10 cheaper than any online retailer. So I really don't think that they inflate their prices.


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## Doug Brott

Actually, DECA isn't crap .. It's a very elegant solution for this .. But there should be no reason you can't use your home network if you set it up yourself.


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## Doug Brott

jasonki32 said:


> I have always found the DirecTV to be reasonable on their networking offerings. Their wireless adapters are at least $10 cheaper than any online retailer. So I really don't think that they inflate their prices.


No, my understanding is that DIRECTV isn't trying to make money off of the networking equipment .. more just recouping costs. The bigger reason for them using certain equipment is because it's the the right equipment for the particular task.


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## steveken

This biggest question of all is something someone like me has been wanting to know for a long time.... What about people who have an H20 or other receivers that do not have an Ethernet port and really want to use MRV and are willing to pay the monthly fee for the service? 

I have talked to DirecTV on the phone until I am blue in the face and just can NOT get them to set me up with a receiver with an Ethernet port on it to replace my H20-100. I even tried to talk to the installer who installed my service when I moved about it and got no where even though the Movers Connection phone agent told me that she put specifically on the work order to replace my old receiver with an H21 or better with an Ethernet port. Heck, the SD DVR that they gave me for free as part of the Movers Connection is even an old R16 (I think) that doesn't have an Ethernet port on it. 

So, I am stuck with older equipment that can't take advantage of new services that DirecTV will offer and I want to use. I don't feel I should have to go out to Nice Try and buy an H21 or H23 myself just to get something that will cost more to use anyway. I have been a customer way too long. I think I deserve some help on this from DirecTV. Do I actually expect anything like this to happen? Of course not, but it sure would be nice.


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## Stuart Sweet

steveken... details are still sketchy but I can tell you that there will be an upgrade path for people with incompatible receivers or network topologies.


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## kramer

Doug Brott said:


> The networking solution that DIRECTV will be supporting is the DECA solution which connects the receivers using the Satellite Cabling of your receiver. You must have a SWiM for this to work.
> 
> So will it be using your network? No.


Doug,

So are you saying that not only will there be a fee but equipment charges too?


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## Doug Brott

kramer said:


> Doug,
> 
> So are you saying that not only will there be a fee but equipment charges too?


Possibly, but if you are already networked, you can use your home network. DECA will be the network configuration supported by DIRECTV.


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## RAD

Doug Brott said:


> Possibly, but if you are already networked, you can use your home network.


Of course there will be some requirements that your network will need to meet in order for MRV to work, I haven't seen those published though. But I would guess don't expect an 802.11b wireless network to be able to handle the bandwidth needs, so YMMV depending on your network infrastructure.


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## ATARI

kramer said:


> Doug,
> 
> So are you saying that not only will there be a fee but equipment charges too?


Bingo bango!


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## dpeters11

RAD said:


> Of course there will be some requirements that your network will need to meet in order for MRV to work, I haven't seen those published though. But I would guess don't expect an 802.11b wireless network to be able to handle the bandwidth needs, so YMMV depending on your network infrastructure.


I don't see it either. G might work for SD, but I honestly don't see good performance for MRV without a N network.

I can understand DirecTV wanting to use DECA. Much easier to support from a CSR level.


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## steveken

Heh, I seriously doubt even a G network would cover it. In my case, I am all set for whenever my equipment gets to where I can do MRV because I have my house networked with a gigabit switch in the wiring closet with some open ports.  One thing I made sure of when the house was being built was decent wiring in the walls in all the rooms.


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## Garyunc

I might be willing to pay the MRV fee if they cut me a deal on upgrading the 2 H20s that I have that are not network capable. 

So when should we expect to get this beta in the National release? (I do already have 2 HR-2x that are networked).


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## jasonki32

Garyunc said:


> I might be willing to pay the MRV fee if they cut me a deal on upgrading the 2 H20s that I have that are not network capable.
> 
> So when should we expect to get this beta in the National release? (I do already have 2 HR-2x that are networked).


Should start see the roll out in the next week(s) and will be staggered for the next few weeks.


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## Rob

Next they need to let us access our receivers over the internet like a slingbox. Like I'm in Boston and able to reach back to my HR2X back in San Diego.


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## Ashtonian

So that cowboy can climb out of my living room TV and into my kitchen TV just like that phone company advert.


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## gully_foyle

Doug Brott said:


> Possibly, but if you are already networked, you can use your home network. DECA will be the network configuration supported by DIRECTV.


Doug, let's ask this another way: I have an SWiM8 and two networked HR2x in the same rack. One TV. I have no need for MRV and would like to avoid a merged playlist. The network is for DoD, and the 2 DVRs are for bandwidth.

I hope that I will be able to _not_ have MRV, and _not_ pay for it.

(having read the pdf now ... obviously I can ignore MRV in the beta, not sure what will trigger billing in the actual)


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## allenn

Thanks for the great heads-up on the winter release.

I hope D* does a better job with MRV than they have with Media Sharing which is still in beta. Also, how long will MRV be in beta? 

It's funny that AT&T Uverse and Dish have MRV which work.


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## Doug Brott

gully_foyle said:


> Doug, let's ask this another way: I have an SWiM8 and two networked HR2x in the same rack. One TV. I have no need for MRV and would like to avoid a merged playlist. The network is for DoD, and the 2 DVRs are for bandwidth.
> 
> I hope that I will be able to _not_ have MRV, and _not_ pay for it.
> 
> (having read the pdf now ... obviously I can ignore MRV in the beta, not sure what will trigger billing in the actual)


You have to Opt-In to the Beta. If you don't want MRV, then do nothing .. you won't have it.

As for future, when it is billed? I don't know how that will work yet. But it won't be turned on unless you accept it, that is for sure. I just don't know if you will be able to add it via remote control or not.


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## Doug Brott

allenn said:


> I hope D* does a better job with MRV than they have with Media Sharing which is still in beta. Also, how long will MRV be in beta?


I have no idea



> It's funny that AT&T Uverse and Dish have MRV which work.


DISH has MRV that is very different from the way DIRECTV does it. Uverse is similar. The way DISH does it is by having a "two TV" set top box, so you have to distribute the video signal (instead of the SAT signal) for it to work. Also, it's only to one other room. DIRECTV's MRV will work in multiple rooms (depending on equipment) and will go both directions if both STBs are HD DVRs.


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## OptimusPrime

dpeters11 said:


> I don't see it either. G might work for SD, but I honestly don't see good performance for MRV without a N network.
> 
> I can understand DirecTV wanting to use DECA. Much easier to support from a CSR level.


I have a Linksys wireless G router, with 3 DVR's, a PC, and my Xbox all hardwired. MRV is working perfectly.

I hope those of us with a reliable, independently maintained network setup aren't in trouble. It sounds like only DECA will be supported by DIRECTV, though you can still "opt in" as long as your receivers are already networked.

I too, ran CAT6 wire anticipating much use of this feature. Honestly, I'm worried about the unclear "charge" for the use of this service, and how it may differ between the DECA and independent network setups. I won't go debating the ethics of the charge for MRV in this thread, as I know it is still unclearly defined and a subject of passion for many CE'ers.


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## BubblePuppy

Doug Brott said:


> Possibly, but if you are already networked, you can use your home network. DECA will be the network configuration supported by DIRECTV.


If SWM is required if a person goes with DirecTV's DECA (which sounds as* if* that will be required to get MRV) will SWM be installed at no charge? Will there be a "lease" fee for that also?


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## Lee1771

I seriously doubt the MVR would reqire a DECA setup. Look at the DECA review in more detail.. it still uses the ethernet port from the DECA adapter to the receiver, just replaces the home network with the coax. 

However DECA does seem a good idea so MRV (box to box) will not slow down your home network for computer use. 

from the MRV review if 40Mbps (assuming this is HD) is accurate I imagine even a wired 100Mbps router would have problems with watching an HD show from room 1 in room 2 while the wife is watching a show in room 2 from room 1, even if that works how would we log on here to find out where D12 was?


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## BubblePuppy

Lee1771 said:


> I seriously doubt the MVR would reqire a DECA setup. Look at the DECA review in more detail.. it still uses the ethernet port from the DECA adapter to the receiver, just replaces the home network with the coax.
> 
> However DECA does seem a good idea so MRV (box to box) will not slow down your home network for computer use.
> 
> from the MRV review if 40Mbps (assuming this is HD) is accurate I imagine even a wired 100Mbps router would have problems with watching an HD show from room 1 in room 2 while the wife is watching a show in room 2 from room 1, even if that works how would we log on here to find out where D12 was?


However, the MRV firmware could "see" if you have a DECA, if it doesn't see it then :nono2:. As long as MRV is beta then a user installed home network will work, but maybe not after MRV goes solid and monthly fees are charged. But that really wasn't the point of my post..it was about SWM/fees. There are just too many questions that are unanswered on the DirecTV web site.


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## LameLefty

BubblePuppy said:


> However, the MRV firmware could "see" if you have a DECA, if it doesn't see it then :nono2:.


The DECA doesn't even have it's own MAC address - it's merely a COAX-to-ethernet bridge. I think you're worrying too much on that score.

What's likely to be the situation is that Directv will only support MRV configurations when they have it noted in their system that the networking equipment (i.e., DECA) was setup and installed by a tech, not the user. Otherwise, you're on your own unless you want to pony up $70 or whatever the current charge is for a truck roll.


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## BubblePuppy

LameLefty said:


> The DECA doesn't even have it's own MAC address - it's merely a COAX-to-ethernet bridge. * I think you're worrying too much on that score.*
> 
> What's likely to be the situation is that Directv will only support MRV configurations when they have it noted in their system that the networking equipment (i.e., DECA) was setup and installed by a tech, not the user. Otherwise, you're on your own unless you want to pony up $70 or whatever the current charge is for a truck roll.


I'm not worried...just tossing out various scenarios, mental masturbation as it were. Just keep in mind that DirecTv wants to make money off of MRV, I doubt it will be given away for free to anyone. It could be the DECA will have some sort of # code that will be entered into your account, just like the receivers id. If you don't have a DECA # on the account then no MRV.


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## Richierich

nino2469 said:


> may not be the right place to say this but this will be a monthly charge for something that uses my network?


You're not being charged for something that uses your Network, you are being charged for the cost of developing and maintaining software that will allow you to enjoy the benefits of MRV.

Whether you use it with your own Network or Deca or whatever doesn't matter because you are paying for a software service. And they could charge for Double Play, Apps, etc. but they choose not to.

I will Gladly Pay Whatever Fee because I love it and it is very useful as far as Watching What I Want Where I Want To Watch It and also using it to perform Maintenance on my DVRs such as Deleting old recordings no longer needed to free up space. Worth every penny of whatever they will charge for it and I will gladly pay it.


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## Rob-NovA

Nice job guys. Of course, being the geeks that we all are, this does bring up a lot of questions, many of which are already posted. Naturally, I was just about ready to take the plunge and get a SWM LNB on my own so I could take advantage of the other HR that I have where I can't snake another line.

Do you all think I should wait a bit longer for the dust to settle here and see what DirecTV plans for upgrade paths? I'd really like to take advantage of both SWM and DECA (I already know my 802.11g network isn't going to cut it...)


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## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> If SWM is required if a person goes with DirecTV's DECA (which sounds as* if* that will be required to get MRV) will SWM be installed at no charge? Will there be a "lease" fee for that also?


SWM is required to use DECA .. SWMs are purchased items part of the infrastructure and there is no lease fee associated with them.

DECA is the networking that will be supported by DIRECTV.

If you have your own home networking, you can use it .. It will not be a setup that is supported by DIRECTV, but as long as you have a knowledge of such things, it will work.


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## RAD

Rob-NovA said:


> Nice job guys. Of course, being the geeks that we all are, this does bring up a lot of questions, many of which are already posted. Naturally, I was just about ready to take the plunge and get a SWM LNB on my own so I could take advantage of the other HR that I have where I can't snake another line.
> 
> Do you all think I should wait a bit longer for the dust to settle here and see what DirecTV plans for upgrade paths? I'd really like to take advantage of both SWM and DECA (I already know my 802.11g network isn't going to cut it...)


I would wait, the question is how long will the wait be?


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## JeffBowser

Bit of a bummer I will have to give up integrated OTA on my two H20's to get this going. Tough choice to make there.


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## Doug Brott

mrvchargewhy said:


> Well is thing going to replace the 5 buck or so charge per receiver after the 1st one (when a receiver owned it is called a mirroring fee - when receiver is leased it is called a leased fee)
> 
> example 4 hdvr's = 15 extra fee
> 
> or is this new charge going o be on top of that 15 buck fee


It is my understanding that this will be a fee similar to the DVR fee .. It probably will not cost as much - maybe $2.99 or $3.99/month. That is, however a guess on my part. I do not know what the actual charge will be. The fee will be for the whole home, not just for a single STB.



> also is this going to be the whole home thing (mrv) ? or is that another animal all together ?
> 
> if this mrv is different from the whole home box, then this has bband converter failure wrote all over it because having 2 mrv systems is nuts


This is not the same thing as the HMC30 that was seen @ CES. There is no information available regarding the RVU alliance and how it will play into MRV. It is entirely possible that a similar model will be used for the HMC30 despite the fact that the technology is slightly different. In both cases, you can review programming at remote locations.


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## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> However, the MRV firmware could "see" if you have a DECA, if it doesn't see it then :nono2:. As long as MRV is beta then a user installed home network will work, but maybe not after MRV goes solid and monthly fees are charged. But that really wasn't the point of my post..it was about SWM/fees. There are just too many questions that are unanswered on the DirecTV web site.


For us geeks here .. I think we can help out with support for Ethernet only installations. It will not be something that DIRECTV will support as a matter of normal operations.


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## Lee L

Doug Brott said:


> Actually, DECA isn't crap .. It's a very elegant solution for this .. But there should be no reason you can't use your home network if you set it up yourself.


Oops, when I said crap, I really meant just the collection of DECA hardware. I am sure it works perfectly well. Bad choice of works on my part.

I will say that DirecTV needs to come out and announce a price for when this comes out of beta. As more and more people use it and it is free (like if the beta period gones on for months and months like Media Share), it will become more and more painful to DirecTV once they start to charge, especially if the charge is more than a buck or two a month total. If they plan on charging 10 bucks a month for this, they really need to be up front about that so people can make decisions based on what they are willing to do. Don't be like cable and disguise all your fees.


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## RAD

Doug Brott said:


> For us geeks here .. I think we can help out with support for Ethernet only installations. It will not be something that DIRECTV will support as a matter of normal operations.


Maybe we should also keep an eye on forums.directv.com since that's where DirecTV is sending folks for support/issues to help out there?


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## Doug Brott

Rob-NovA said:


> Nice job guys. Of course, being the geeks that we all are, this does bring up a lot of questions, many of which are already posted. Naturally, I was just about ready to take the plunge and get a SWM LNB on my own so I could take advantage of the other HR that I have where I can't snake another line.
> 
> Do you all think I should wait a bit longer for the dust to settle here and see what DirecTV plans for upgrade paths? I'd really like to take advantage of both SWM and DECA (I already know my 802.11g network isn't going to cut it...)


DIRECTV comments on their Beta Testing Phase page: "Once the service launches nationally there will be a special networking offer available to take advantage of the service. "

Based on that statement alone, maybe waiting would be advisable, but we don't know pricing yet, so :shrug:


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## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> It is my understanding that this will be a fee similar to the DVR fee .. It probably will not cost as much - maybe $2.99 or $3.99/month. That is, however a guess on my part. I do not know what the actual charge will be. The fee will be for the whole home, not just for a single STB.


That makes sense and is what I think they will do. A Monthly Fee of perhaps $2.99 if you choose to Opt-In to use the MRV Function regardless of what infrastructure you use to allow you to use it.


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## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> ...If you have your own home networking, you can use it .. *It will not be a setup that is supported by DIRECTV*, but as long as you have a knowledge of such things, it will work.


If so, may I be so bold to expect there will be no additional charge either?


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## BubblePuppy

Doug Brott said:


> *SWM is required to use DECA *.. SWMs are purchased items part of the infrastructure and there is no lease fee associated with them.
> 
> DECA is the networking that will be supported by DIRECTV.
> 
> If you have your own home networking, you can use it .. It will not be a setup that is supported by DIRECTV, but as long as you have a knowledge of such things, it will work.


So if I "order" DECA for MRV will DirecTV also supply the SWM, and install it for free, or will the SWM purchase and installation be up to me?


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## Richierich

jacmyoung said:


> If so, may I be so bold to expect there will be no additional charge either?


I suspect that there will be an Opt-In Charge or $2.99 or $3.99 or whatever per month to use the MRV Software regardless of your infrastructure. Just my guess.


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## RAD

jacmyoung said:


> If so, may I be so bold to expect there will be no additional charge either?


I wouldn't count on it, if you want MRV, no matter who's network is being used, expect to pay a MRV access fee every month. They've mentioned a MRV in a number of financial calls and even the www.directv.com/multiroom page says there will be a charge once it's out of beta.


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## BubblePuppy

RAD said:


> Maybe we should also keep an eye on forums.directv.com since that's where DirecTV is sending folks for support/issues to help out there?


I went there yesterday, nothing seemed to have been posted about MRV. Maybe today.


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## RAD

BubblePuppy said:


> I went there yesterday, nothing seemed to have been posted about MRV. Maybe today.


I just looked, there's no sub forum for MRV, but in the HD DVR section there's a thread about MRV and it points back to DBSTalk and their first look review.http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10645513


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## BubblePuppy

RAD said:


> I just looked, there's no sub forum for MRV, but in the HD DVR section there's a thread about MRV and it points back to DBSTalk and their first look review.http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10645513


A Möbius Strip.


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## HDJulie

BubblePuppy said:


> If SWM is required if a person goes with DirecTV's DECA (which sounds as* if* that will be required to get MRV) will SWM be installed at no charge?


This is what I want to know as well -- what will it cost to be upgraded to SWM if we choose to pay for MRV & want to use the DECA method for networking. I'm hoping it is free to upgrade . Just to make sure I'm understanding this (and I am not at home to check) -- SWM is the one that needs only one cable to a DVR & both tuners will work from that one cable. If my DVR cannot use both tuners from one cable, then I don't have a SWM. We had our system installed 3 1/2 years ago. I'm pretty sure it is not SWM.


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## Stuart Sweet

...the truth is that I don't know, and I'm not 100% sure that the decision has been made.


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## ryarber

So, where will we find the option to opt-in? Will it be in the menu system somehwere?


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## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> If so, may I be so bold to expect there will be no additional charge either?


If you expect that, you will be disappointed.


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## LameLefty

ryarber said:



> So, where will we find the option to opt-in? Will it be in the menu system somehwere?


It's in the menu system. Menu --> Setup --> Multi-Room


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## say-what

ryarber said:


> So, where will we find the option to opt-in? Will it be in the menu system somehwere?


The "First Look" linked in the first post of this thread explains everything.

But it's in the menu

MENU  Parental, Fav's and Setup  System Setup Multi-Room Beta


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## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> So if I "order" DECA for MRV will DirecTV also supply the SWM, and install it for free, or will the SWM purchase and installation be up to me?


I don't know how DIRECTV could support an "MRV Networking package" without including an SWM. Not sure what the charge is going to be, though.


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## Doug Brott

HDJulie said:


> This is what I want to know as well -- what will it cost to be upgraded to SWM if we choose to pay for MRV & want to use the DECA method for networking. I'm hoping it is free to upgrade . Just to make sure I'm understanding this (and I am not at home to check) -- SWM is the one that needs only one cable to a DVR & both tuners will work from that one cable. If my DVR cannot use both tuners from one cable, then I don't have a SWM. We had our system installed 3 1/2 years ago. I'm pretty sure it is not SWM.


I'm fairly certain it won't be free. DIRECTV's multiroom page makes reference to a "networking package" so the implication in my mind is that there will be a charge to get the package. However, nothing has been announced regarding cost.


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## Doug Brott

ryarber said:


> So, where will we find the option to opt-in? Will it be in the menu system somehwere?


Check out the First Look .. all the details of the service are there including how to Opt-in.


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## Hutchinshouse

Sweet looking first look!


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> If you expect that, you will be disappointed.


I will be disappointed if they charge me something but do not support it, that was my point.


----------



## say-what

jacmyoung said:


> I will be disappointed if they charge me something but do not support it, that was my point.


The charge is to activate and support the MRV software feature in the receivers - not to support your home network. If you want network support, you're going to need the SWM/DECA equipment.


----------



## jeffshoaf

Has there been any mention of box with no satellite receivers built in that could be connected to the network and used for "remote" viewing of stuff from an MRV-enabled box?

For example, I have a networked HR20. I don't want/need another receiver, but I would like to be able to view stuff recorded on the HR20 in another room. I'd like to be able to get a box (sort of like a Roku) that I could hook up to my network and watch recordings off of the HR20 without having to run coax to the box. 

Hmmm... Or maybe this could be added to a new Roku model... :sure:


----------



## carl6

Let's look at the millions of regular DirecTV customers - not the very few that are represented in these forums. People who have neither the desire nor knowledge to do anything with networking their TV equipment.

I would expect a one-time charge for the setup that supports MRV. That will include anything that is required (SWM, DECA, installation, settings, etc.). This will give you the infrastructure that DirecTV will then support, and that will have been proven to be the best or preferred infrastructure to make MRV work properly.

If you want to use your own network, you will be able to do that. If you do, then don't call DirecTV with MRV problems or issues because the only answer you will get is to have a tech out to do the one-time setup (at the established cost).

Regardless of infrastructure (theirs or yours), if you do opt in to MRV in the future, there will be a monthly charge for it.

I'm guessing this is how it will shake out once their beta phase is over. Who knows how long the beta phase will last.

There is supposed to be a separate forum at DirecTV.com for MRV. It should show up soon if it isn't there already.


----------



## nino2469

2.99 or 3.99 I would be ok paying. When you start getting into the 5.99 or higher realm then I have a problem with that.

On another note, I may be purchasing a new home in the next couple of weeks. If I call for the movers connection can I specify that I want them to use the SWM in the new home or is that a given at this point?


----------



## say-what

jeffshoaf said:


> Has there been any mention of box with no satellite receivers built in that could be connected to the network and used for "remote" viewing of stuff from an MRV-enabled box?
> 
> For example, I have a networked HR20. I don't want/need another receiver, but I would like to be able to view stuff recorded on the HR20 in another room. I'd like to be able to get a box (sort of like a Roku) that I could hook up to my network and watch recordings off of the HR20 without having to run coax to the box.


As of now, the only known option is to have a separte MRV-enabled H-series or HR2x-series receiver.


----------



## Doug Brott

say-what said:


> The charge is to activate and support the MRV software feature in the receivers - not to support your home network. If you want network support, you're going to need the SWM/DECA equipment.


This pretty much covers it, yes.


----------



## RAD

jeffshoaf said:


> Has there been any mention of box with no satellite receivers built in that could be connected to the network and used for "remote" viewing of stuff from an MRV-enabled box?
> 
> For example, I have a networked HR20. I don't want/need another receiver, but I would like to be able to view stuff recorded on the HR20 in another room. I'd like to be able to get a box (sort of like a Roku) that I could hook up to my network and watch recordings off of the HR20 without having to run coax to the box.
> 
> Hmmm... Or maybe this could be added to a new Roku model... :sure:


Out in the future that's what the RUV alliance want's to get to, connect your TV to your network and be able to access your satellite receiver/server and access it just like if you had a STB on that TV.


----------



## iowaberg

LameLefty said:


> It's in the menu system. Menu --> Setup --> Multi-Room


What if I don't see "Multi-Room" in the menu system yet?


----------



## Doug Brott

nino2469 said:


> 2.99 or 3.99 I would be ok paying. When you start getting into the 5.99 or higher realm then I have a problem with that.
> 
> On another note, I may be purchasing a new home in the next couple of weeks. If I call for the movers connection can I specify that I want them to use the SWM in the new home or is that a given at this point?


I think DIRECTV has either already moved to or will soon be moving to an all-SWM installation policy. Likely because of MRV. So you may end up with an SWM setup anyway .. probably in the LNB of the dish unless you have legacy (non-SWM) equipment. Either way, it doesn't hurt to ask the question when you call the Mover's Program.


----------



## Doug Brott

iowaberg said:


> What if I don't see "Multi-Room" in the menu system yet?


Then you probably do not have your receiver networked OR you haven't received the new software update yet. Push & hold the {INFO} button to find out your current software version. Is should say 0x395 for you to have Multi-Room functionality.


----------



## RAD

iowaberg said:


> What if I don't see "Multi-Room" in the menu system yet?


Then you don't have the software level yet. AFAIK you need to have 0x0395 for the HD DVR's to get MRV.


----------



## Jon J

From reading the DirecTV page on MRV, it looks like if all you have are DVRs (like me) you are SOL. The site plainly says you must have a non-dvr receiver.


----------



## say-what

Jon J said:


> From reading the DirecTV page on MRV, it looks like if all you have are DVRs (like me) you are SOL. The site plainly says you must have a non-dvr receiver.


It works HR-HR


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I can confirm this, you can MRV between two HR2x receivers.


----------



## HDJulie

It will not work with the H20 -- is that correct?

Also, does the network it is on have to be connected to the Internet or can it be an internal network only.


----------



## mridan

I have three HD DVR's,with only one connected to my network.For MRV to work I will have to connect two HD DVR's using this DECA networking.Does anyone have a link or could explain DECA networking?Equipment,installation,and cost.Thanks.


----------



## say-what

HDJulie said:


> It will not work with the H20 -- is that correct?
> 
> Also, does the network it is on have to be connected to the Internet or can it be an internal network only.


You don't have to be connected to the internet for MRV. Since the H20 does not have ethernet support, it won't work with MRV.


----------



## say-what

mridan said:


> I have three HD DVR's,with only one connected to my network.For MRV to work I will have to connect two HD DVR's using this DECA networking.Does anyone have a link or could explain DECA networking?Equipment,installation,and cost.Thanks.


DECA is not available and there is no estimate as to when it will or how much it will cost.

There is a First Look here so you can get an idea of what to expect: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=170910


----------



## HDJulie

say-what said:


> You don't have to be connected to the internet for MRV. Since the H20 does not have ethernet support, it won't work with MRV.


Ok, wondered why the H20 wouldn't work -- that explains it.


----------



## Jon J

Stuart Sweet said:


> I can confirm this, you can MRV between two HR2x receivers.


You might want to advise DirecTV to revise this information:


> What do I need for Multi-Room HD DVR service to work?
> You need an HD DVR* (models HR20-23) and at least one compatible HD receiver (models H21-23) that are already networked, along with HD Access and DVR service.


----------



## dave29

Jon J said:


> You might want to advise DirecTV to revise this information:


Good point. I can see that confusing some people.


----------



## veryoldschool

> What do I need for Multi-Room HD DVR service to work?
> You need an HD DVR* (models HR20-23) and *at least* one compatible HD receiver (models H21-23) that are already networked, along with HD Access and DVR service.


I think they meant "minimum" requirements, ie: 1 HD DVR & 1 HD receiver [H21/23].


----------



## jacmyoung

say-what said:


> The charge is to activate and support the MRV software feature in the receivers - not to support your home network. If you want network support, you're going to need the SWM/DECA equipment.


So you do think they will support the MRV software feature in the receivers? If my MRV has issues that are software related, they will provide support?

I do not need them to support my network, ATT has that part covered for me.


----------



## Jon J

veryoldschool said:


> I think they meant "minimum" requirements, ie: 1 HD DVR & 1 HD receiver [H21/23].


Uhhhhh...that's my point. What if you don't any any "regular" receivers?


----------



## RAD

Jon J said:


> Uhhhhh...that's my point. What if you don't any any "regular" receivers?


OK, what's above the minimun, two HD DVR's, which also works. All they're saying is that to use MRV you have to have at least a HD DVR and a HD STB, if you have anything more then that you're also good.


----------



## stlmike

I wouldn't worry about the fee. D* leaves stuff in beta for a long time, so it could be years before we start getting charged. 

Ironically, I saw a D* commercial last night bashing Dish for "nickel and diming" their customers to death. It made me laugh a little now that I see they will charge for mrv!


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I agree it's a little confusing, but it's meant to be an unsupported beta. 

When people come here, they'll get more information, and they'll find us through simple google searches.


----------



## say-what

Jon J said:


> Uhhhhh...that's my point. What if you don't any any "regular" receivers?


You don't need any "regular" HD receivers.

You do need at least 1 HR2x and at least one additional HR2x, H21 or H23.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> So you do think they will support the MRV software feature in the receivers? If my MRV has issues that are software related, they will provide support?
> 
> I do not need them to support my network, ATT has that part covered for me.


My guess is if you call in and say something isn't working or the quality is suspect, that DIRECTV will simply state that you are using an unsupported configuration and ask you if you want to have a DECA/SWM installation set up. If you decline, they will likely apologize and say that they cannot help you.


----------



## idigg

Well it was fun testing it for free, I ain't paying for it though. Uverse it comes standard.


----------



## say-what

jacmyoung said:


> So you do think they will support the MRV software feature in the receivers? If my MRV has issues that are software related, they will provide support?


What I meant by support of the MRV software was the initial development and ongoing updates to the software. I'd doubt that they'd be able to offer much in terms of troubleshooting problems occuring on non-supported network configurations. Beyond offering basic advice, like asking you to restore each receiver's network defaults and reboot, I wouldn't expect much without having a SWM/DECA setup.


----------



## RAD

idigg said:


> Well it was fun testing it for free, I ain't paying for it though. Uverse it comes standard.


And so does bad HD picture quality and a limit to the number of concurrent HD channels you can view.


----------



## Jon J

RAD said:


> OK, what's above the minimun, two HD DVR's, which also works. All they're saying is that to use MRV you have to have at least a HD DVR and a HD STB, if you have anything more then that you're also good.


I give up. I have no STBs only DVRs. Not worth flogging the deceased equine any further.


----------



## gio12

Charging for MRV is a frickin joke!! I pay for my DVR and DVR srvice. If I use MY network and directv will not support it, it should be FREE!

Now those who want the DECA should pay for equipment. Now problem. You want MTV support? Fine, $2.99-3.99 a month.

But my equipment and NO support should be free! Again it's MY network stuff which directv won't help anyways with and I paid my DVR and DVR service fees.

Here we go, just N & D people to death. Sorry but close to $100 per month for TV in 2 rooms with just basic DVR and HD is high enough!


----------



## say-what

gio12 said:


> Charging for MRV is a frickin joke!! I pay for my DVR and DVR srvice. If I use MY network and directv will not support it, it should be FREE!
> 
> Now those who want the DECA should pay for equipment. Now problem. You want MTV support? Fine, $2.99-3.99 a month.
> 
> But my equipment and NO support should be free! Again it's MY network stuff which directv won't help anyways with and I paid my DVR and DVR service fees.
> 
> Here we go, just N & D people to death. Sorry but close to $100 per month for TV in 2 rooms with just basic DVR and HD is high enough!


Then don't subscribe to MRV - no one's going to force you to activate it once the Beta ends.


----------



## Doug Brott

stlmike said:


> I wouldn't worry about the fee. D* leaves stuff in beta for a long time, so it could be years before we start getting charged.
> 
> Ironically, I saw a D* commercial last night bashing Dish for "nickel and diming" their customers to death. It made me laugh a little now that I see they will charge for mrv!


I do not expect this Beta to last for "years" .. It will likely be a relatively short period.


----------



## Doug Brott

Jon J said:


> I give up. I have no STBs only DVRs. Not worth flogging the deceased equine any further.


A DVR (Digital Video Recorder) is a STB (Set Top Box)

(although technically most sit on a shelf now rather than on top of the TV since new TVs are flat, but I digress)


----------



## dave29

gio12 said:


> Charging for MRV is a frickin joke!! I pay for my DVR and DVR srvice. If I use MY network and directv will not support it, it should be FREE!
> 
> Now those who want the DECA should pay for equipment. Now problem. You want MTV support? Fine, $2.99-3.99 a month.
> 
> But my equipment and NO support should be free! Again it's MY network stuff which directv won't help anyways with and I paid my DVR and DVR service fees.
> 
> Here we go, just N & D people to death. Sorry but close to $100 per month for TV in 2 rooms with just basic DVR and HD is high enough!


It will be free during the Beta period.

Then...
You are paying for the MRV software to be activated and supported, this proposed fee has nothing to do with your network....


----------



## MurrayW

When viewing the consoidated List do shows from several DVR's show up in the same folder?

Say I have 5 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR1 and 10 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR2. When viewing the consolidated list, will there only be 1 Daily Show folder? And if so, will only unique episodes be listed (preferably just the duplicate on the local DVR would show up)?

So let's say that 3 episodes are duplicates between the 2 DVR's, would there be just one folder and would that folder have 12 episodes listed?

thanks,
Murray


----------



## dave29

MurrayW said:


> When viewing the consoidated List do shows from several DVR's show up in the same folder?
> 
> Say I have 5 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR1 and 10 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR2. When viewing the consolidated list, will there only be 1 Daily Show folder? And if so, will only unique episodes be listed (preferably just the duplicate on the local DVR would show up)?
> 
> So let's say that 3 episodes are duplicates between the 2 DVR's, would there be just one folder and would that folder have 12 episodes listed?
> 
> thanks,
> Murray


The folder will be combined with all of the shows from all DVR's networked(even duplicates). Each episode will list the DVR it is from though.


----------



## veryoldschool

MurrayW said:


> When viewing the consoidated List do shows from several DVR's show up in the same folder?
> 
> Say I have 5 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR1 and 10 episodes of the Daily Show on DVR2. When viewing the consolidated list, will there only be 1 Daily Show folder? And if so, will only unique episodes be listed (preferably just the duplicate on the local DVR would show up)?
> 
> So let's say that 3 episodes are duplicates between the 2 DVR's, would there be just one folder and would that folder have 12 episodes listed?
> 
> thanks,
> Murray


They're all in the same folder and as you select each it will show which DVR has the recording.
With 3 DVRs recording the same show, the folder will have all three displayed.


----------



## Doug Brott

gio12 said:


> Charging for MRV is a frickin joke!! I pay for my DVR and DVR srvice. If I use MY network and directv will not support it, it should be FREE!
> 
> Now those who want the DECA should pay for equipment. Now problem. You want MTV support? Fine, $2.99-3.99 a month.
> 
> But my equipment and NO support should be free! Again it's MY network stuff which directv won't help anyways with and I paid my DVR and DVR service fees.
> 
> Here we go, just N & D people to death. Sorry but close to $100 per month for TV in 2 rooms with just basic DVR and HD is high enough!





say-what said:


> Then don't subscribe to MRV - no one's going to force you to activate it once the Beta ends.


Yup, if viewing programs remotely isn't worth the fee that DIRECTV is going to charge then simply don't subscribe to it. There really isn't another option.


----------



## JeffBowser

Wow. Every time something comes out, there also comes out a bunch of people with a complaint about it. It's like a law of nature or something.


----------



## barryb

You will see a list of all recorded content from MRV enabled DVRs once you hit {MENU}, then "My Playlist".... or just hit {LIST}

What many of us have done was get rid of duplicated series passes, therefore making more room for other stuff and a playlist without duplicates.


----------



## veryoldschool

JeffBowser said:


> Wow. Every time something comes out, there also comes out a bunch of people with a complaint about it. It's like a law of nature or something.


AKA: if it isn't something I WANT, then DirecTV has wasted their time. :lol:


----------



## smiddy

Are you kidding me, another great product from a well informed crew of dedicated souls, awesome stuff, thanks!


----------



## barryb

smiddy said:


> Are you kidding me, another great product from a well informed crew of dedicated souls, awesome stuff, thanks!


Never kid an Ogre.


----------



## durl

I've been looking forward to MRV for quite some time. This is welcome news. But...

I have to admit (and please, don't hit me) that the fee is a little surprising; I had hoped that it would be included at no additional cost. I understand the "maintenance" aspect of it, but Directv already activates and maintains software on every receiver so I don't see how this additional feature requires a separate fee and maintenance. On Demand didn't require a fee but I'm sure it requires very specific programming, as well.

For the record, I subscribe to HD Extra and never complained about the additional cost; it includes channels that require carrier fees. I fully understand and support the "if you don't want it, don't pay for it" mantra and I won't start bashing Directv if the continue to charge a fee.

I hope I'm being "cheap" here. It just seems as though this could easily be a free service.


----------



## VARTV

Doug Brott said:


> A couple of things to consider:
> 
> 
> The video streaming from room-to-room can be affected by your home network. Even wired networks can have problems if the router or switch cannot handle a proper continuous data rate.
> DIRECTV will be relying on the DIRECT Ethernet over Coax Adapter (DECA) for networking. You must have a SWiM (Single-Wire Multiswitch) device to use the DECA adapter. To check if you have a SWiM installation, simply press the {DASH} key on your remote while viewing Live TV.


I'm curious to see how my home network will handle this. Bridges and router are N+


----------



## sdirv

smiddy said:


> Are you kidding me, another great product from a well informed crew of dedicated souls, awesome stuff, thanks!


Sounds like it, I was looking forward to it.

But......

Now that the details are starting to come out I find myself in a boat I didn't think I'd be in (to be able to use MRV).

It seems I won't be able to use the H20 or the SD receivers in my house to do the MRV thing off the HR22 in my family room.

And although software upgrades with the systems to get them to do all sorts of neat things haven't (in my memory) been charged for in the past....this one will be.

Comes at a bad time (IMO) when the economy is in such bad shape. I've personally been considering dropping back out of the Premier package I'm in to something cheaper and then using my Netflix streaming instead of all the HBO's and stuff. Been thinking about dropping out of the HD Extra Pack too, I'm pretty much down to using only HDNM with it these days.

Not a big deal......people who can afford it can do what they please. I've always thought yachts were neat, can't afford one and never felt bad about THAT :lol:.


----------



## Doug Brott

durl said:


> I've been looking forward to MRV for quite some time. This is welcome news. But...
> 
> I have to admit (and please, don't hit me) that the fee is a little surprising; I had hoped that it would be included at no additional cost. I understand the "maintenance" aspect of it, but Directv already activates and maintains software on every receiver so I don't see how this additional feature requires a separate fee and maintenance. On Demand didn't require a fee but I'm sure it requires very specific programming, as well.


On Demand includes Pay-for content that likely helps subsidize that service.

MRV adds additional maintenance of network infrastructure (in this case DECA). This is something new and was never part of things DIRECTV has maintained in the past. It's doubtful (to me) that DIRECTV is out to make lots of money on this. More a way to structure the costs so that folks can have MRV without it causing a burden to every subscriber.


----------



## jluzbet69

What will happen if I connect my second receiver to my network today, it wont work? 

I only have one of my receivers on my network at this me...


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> MRV adds additional maintenance of network infrastructure (in this case DECA). This is something new and was never part of things DIRECTV has maintained in the past. It's doubtful (to me) that DIRECTV is out to make lots of money on this. More a way to structure the costs so that folks can have MRV without it causing a burden to every subscriber.


[not to beat a dead horse "too much" again]
If the charge was actually "to support" DECA, then that's one thing, but if the customer used their own network and supported that themselves, then this should be FREE.


----------



## veryoldschool

jluzbet69 said:


> What will happen if I connect my second receiver to my network today, it wont work?
> 
> I only have one of my receivers on my network at this me...


You'll need to have the software [0395/4395] for this to work.


----------



## stlmike

veryoldschool said:


> [not to beat a dead horse "too much" again]
> If the charge was actually "to support" DECA, then that's one thing, but if the customer used their own network and supported that themselves, then this should be FREE.


A very reasonable position I think!


----------



## RAD

sdirv said:


> It seems I won't be able to use the H20 or the SD receivers in my house to do the MRV thing off the HR22 in my family room.


One rumor that I heard was if you get the DirecTV networking option (aka DECA) upgrade that they would replace any receivers that needed to be replaced to make it work as part of the upgrade. Now does that mean replace a R15 for a R16 since DECA requires SWiM or also a H20 to H21/H23 swap since the H20 doesn't have a network connection isn't know.


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> [not to beat a dead horse "too much" again]
> If the charge was actually "to support" DECA, then that's one thing, but if the customer used their own network and supported that themselves, then this should be FREE.


:shrug:


----------



## veryoldschool

Doug Brott said:


> :shrug:


yeah that was what DirecTV said/did when I asked them the same question... :lol:


----------



## Beerstalker

veryoldschool said:


> [not to beat a dead horse "too much" again]
> If the charge was actually "to support" DECA, then that's one thing, but if the customer used their own network and supported that themselves, then this should be FREE.


I agree 100%. DirecTV has never charged for new features to be added to existing hardware before that I know of (and I don't know of many companies that do). Look at all the Blu-Ray players that keep adding Netflix, Pandora, Amazon, Youtube streaming etc. for free.

Only a couple companies come to mind when I hear about charging for new features on existing equipment Apple and E*. And at least they only charge a one time upgrade fee and not a monthly fee (one time fee for major firmware upgrades on the iphone/ipod touch, one time fee to enable external hard drives on E* DVRs).

I could maybe understand if DirecTV charged a one time fee to activate MRV. But I will not be happy if they really do go through with a monthly fee. Especially considering they just upped the monthly DVR fee as well. (Could the costs for supporting that really have gone up much?).

If they need to charge for DECA support then offer it as an add on plan like the protection plan. Don't charge me when I plan on using my personal gigabit network.


----------



## veryoldschool

Beerstalker said:


> I agree 100%. DirecTV has never charged for new features to be added to existing hardware before that I know of (and I don't know of many companies that do). Look at all the Blu-Ray players that keep adding Netflix, Pandora, Amazon, Youtube streaming etc. for free.
> 
> Only a couple companies come to mind when I hear about charging for new features on existing equipment Apple and E*. And at least they only charge a one time upgrade fee and not a monthly fee (one time fee for major firmware upgrades on the iphone/ipod touch, one time fee to enable external hard drives on E* DVRs).
> 
> I could maybe understand if DirecTV charged a one time fee to activate MRV. But I will not be happy if they really do go through with a monthly fee. Especially considering they just upped the monthly DVR fee as well. (Could the costs for supporting that really have gone up much?).
> 
> If they need to charge for DECA support then offer it as an add on plan like the protection plan. Don't charge me when I plan on using my personal gigabit network.


"I think" their error is that they're thinking of a revenue stream for:
A below cost DECA upgrade, that would include a SWiM, DECA adapters and changing out all the receivers that are needed to have a whole house solution, and then to offset this [loss] with a monthly fee.
I think customers would understand a fair charge for the hardware changes instead of a monthly fee for what is in fact just another software feature.
If the monthly was for "support", then either having a monthly "support" charge or adding it to the protection plan [for an increase in the fee] would be more reasonable.
For those of us that are "doing everything ourselves", this fee just doesn't make sense [cents]. 

[/end beating horse]


----------



## BubblePuppy

Playing devils advocate. What if DirecTV only charged those that used DECA for MRV but not those that used their own setup? There would be a hue and cry, just as there is now. Then a rush for the DIY networking, cancellation of the paid MRV, and then what? Disconnecting and sending the DirecTV supplied SWM,DECA and all related geegaws back to DirecTV. The issues are endless. How will Dtv control who pays and who doesn't? So they charge everyone, or just those that have the DirecTV networking supplied units will be able to get MRV, and those that have DIY networks won't. Just because one's system is networked now doesn't mean entitlement to MRV.


----------



## jacmyoung

veryoldschool said:


> [not to beat a dead horse "too much" again]
> If the charge was actually "to support" DECA, then that's one thing, but if the customer used their own network and supported that themselves, then this should be FREE.


I do see a problem of "self-support", most people don't know how, also even if you know, you will still run into issues that you cannot solve, and must call DirecTV for support, but then how would DirecTV know if it is your network or just the software issue?

I like the idea that just let people who have their own network get the software for free, if they call to report issues, tell them you supposed to upgrade to our own hardware to use the MRV. If you refuse to upgrade, sorry, if you do upgrade, we'll send a tech to take care of it for you but you will be charged for a one time fee and a monthly fee.

This way, the ball is in the customer's court, if DirecTV charges a monthly fee for those who use their own network, then the ball will be in DirecTV's court, it will be hard to refuse to support when people call.


----------



## veryoldschool

Since I've [/end beating dead horse], you all will have to continue without my comments.


----------



## smiddy

barryb said:


> Never kid an Ogre.


I know, right?!


----------



## smiddy

sdirv said:


> Sounds like it, I was looking forward to it.
> 
> But......
> 
> Now that the details are starting to come out I find myself in a boat I didn't think I'd be in (to be able to use MRV).
> 
> It seems I won't be able to use the H20 or the SD receivers in my house to do the MRV thing off the HR22 in my family room.
> 
> And although software upgrades with the systems to get them to do all sorts of neat things haven't (in my memory) been charged for in the past....this one will be.
> 
> Comes at a bad time (IMO) when the economy is in such bad shape. I've personally been considering dropping back out of the Premier package I'm in to something cheaper and then using my Netflix streaming instead of all the HBO's and stuff. Been thinking about dropping out of the HD Extra Pack too, I'm pretty much down to using only HDNM with it these days.
> 
> Not a big deal......people who can afford it can do what they please. I've always thought yachts were neat, can't afford one and never felt bad about THAT :lol:.


Yeah, we all have our "things" we deal with and make trades towards what and how we do those "things" right?! I think this is optimistically in the right place on the uptick towards a recovery. I like it!


----------



## bobnielsen

jluzbet69 said:


> What will happen if I connect my second receiver to my network today, it wont work?
> 
> I only have one of my receivers on my network at this me...


It won't work until your receivers receive the firmware upgrade to 0x395 and you enable the opt-in. After that, it *may* work, depending on the characteristics of your network (the demands are greater than for On Demand or Media Share).


----------



## iamqnow

Stuart Sweet said:


> steveken... details are still sketchy but I can tell you that there will be an upgrade path for people with incompatible receivers or network topologies.


I hope you are right about that. 3 out of my 4 receivers are good to go but 1 is not.


----------



## Richierich

BubblePuppy said:


> What if DirecTV only charged those that used DECA for MRV but not those that used their own setup? There would be a hue and cry, just as there is now.
> 
> Then a rush for the DIY networking, cancellation of the paid MRV, and then what? Disconnecting and sending the DirecTV supplied SWM,DECA and all related geegaws back to DirecTV. The issues are endless.
> 
> How will Dtv control who pays and who doesn't? So they charge everyone, or just those that have the DirecTV networking supplied units will be able to get MRV, and those that have DIY networks won't.
> 
> Just because one's system is networked now doesn't mean entitlement to MRV.


Why are there so many posters making this harder than it is?

You charge a monthly Fee that allows you to OPT-IN so you can enjoy the MRV Service and help defray the costs of the MRV Software. If you decide you don't think it is for you, then you just never OPT-IN and you will not be charged for it.

If you can't set up a Wired/Wireless Network, then you call Directv and they will install a Deca System and you pay for the equipment/installation.

Why should I help pay for someone's system who can't install a Network similar to mine when they didn't help me pay for my Network Environment?

How do you control it? By only allowing those who OPT-IN to be able to have access to the MRV Service. Very Simple.


----------



## hilmar2k

RAD said:


> One rumor that I heard was if you get the DirecTV networking option (aka DECA) upgrade that they would replace any receivers that needed to be replaced to make it work as part of the upgrade. Now does that mean replace a R15 for a R16 since DECA requires SWiM or also a H20 to H21/H23 swap since the H20 doesn't have a network connection isn't know.


Upgrading an R15 to R16 doesn't really help as it doesn't have network access. Really, all DVR's would need to be HR2x's and all receivers need to be H21/3.


----------



## RAD

hilmar2k said:


> Upgrading an R15 to R16 doesn't really help as it doesn't have network access. Really, all DVR's would need to be HR2x's and all receivers need to be H21/3.


Didn't say the R15/R16's did, but if you have a R15 and go for the network upgrade to SWiM/DECA your R15 would need to be replace else it wouldn't work anymore. That part has nothing to do with MRV, just saying that non-SWiM STB's would need to be replaced with a SWiM model.


----------



## Thaedron

nino2469 said:


> may not be the right place to say this but this will be a monthly charge for something that uses my network?


There is a monthly charge for having more than one receiver (whether you call it a mirroring or a lease charge). It's about features available to the user and the perceived value. Has nothing to do with your network.

Though just for the record, I'm not in favor of them charging a fee for MRV.


----------



## iamqnow

iamqnow said:


> I hope you are right about that. 3 out of my 4 receivers are good to go but 1 is not.


Has anyone else noticed that for the last few days, on the D* website, the only "kits and equipment" offered is the AM21? No powerline adapters or wireless equipment is listed. Must be due to the now rolling MRV/networking movement.


----------



## RAD

iamqnow said:


> Has anyone else noticed that for the last few days, on the D* website, the only "kits and equipment" offered is the AM21? No powerline adapters or wireless equipment is listed. Must be due to the now rolling MRV/networking movement.


I just logged in and both the wireless and powerline adapters are listed along with the AM21.


----------



## eilugo

Does anyone know the estimated time frame for the beta-testing phase of MRV?


----------



## Doug Brott

I'll estimate that it will be "months" but I don't know if that means 2-6 months or 6-12 months. Either way, I'd look towards shorter rather than longer times.


----------



## hilmar2k

RAD said:


> Didn't say the R15/R16's did, but if you have a R15 and go for the network upgrade to SWiM/DECA your R15 would need to be replace else it wouldn't work anymore. That part has nothing to do with MRV, just saying that non-SWiM STB's would need to be replaced with a SWiM model.


Yeah, I know you knew that. My points was if I am going to pay for MRV, I want to be able to access the recordings on any receiver. If they are going to upgrade people, my R16 ought to be swapped out for an HR2x.


----------



## eilugo

2 months is what I was thinking as well. Don't know why, just sounded like a good number. Thanks Doug!


----------



## RAD

hilmar2k said:


> Yeah, I know you knew that. My points was if I am going to pay for MRV, I want to be able to access the recordings on any receiver. If they are going to upgrade people, my R16 ought to be swapped out for an HR2x.


Sorry don't agree with that since that would probably raise the cost for everyone. Who know's DirecTV might have that as part of the upgrade but IMHO I don't see that happening.


----------



## hilmar2k

RAD said:


> Sorry don't agree with that since that would probably raise the cost for everyone. Who know's DirecTV might have that as part of the upgrade but IMHO I don't see that happening.


So now I have this great feature that I am paying for every month, and to use it, all I have to do is upgrade my receivers?

DIRECTV needs a plan to handle that, thats all I'm saying.


----------



## RAD

hilmar2k said:


> So now I have this great feature that I am paying for every month, and to use it, all I have to do is upgrade my receivers?
> 
> DIRECTV needs a plan to handle that, thats all I'm saying.


Why?

You don't have access to DirecTV on Demand with a R15/R16. You don't have access to Media Share or TVApps with a R15/R16. You're paying the HD access charge and the HD Extra pack but you can't view those channels on a R15/R16. As I said, I don't know if they will or won't have an upgrade path for SD to HD receivers, just don't think they'll have those upgrades as part of a flat rate DECA networking upgrade package.


----------



## dhines

durl said:



> I have to admit (and please, don't hit me) that the fee is a little surprising; I had hoped that it would be included at no additional cost. I understand the "maintenance" aspect of it, but Directv already activates and maintains software on every receiver so I don't see how this additional feature requires a separate fee and maintenance. On Demand didn't require a fee but I'm sure it requires very specific programming, as well.


the only part that kills me is, this will open the door to all new functionality being a charged fee. IMO, if you are already paying for the top tier package, why should you be nickled and dimed to death?

but, it is what it is . . . . and i for one won't pay an extra penny for it; just on principle. my bill (not counting mirror/lease fees) is already pay $141 per month (HD, premeir, protection plan, setanta). and it would be $6 more if i wasn't grandfathered into the bundled DVR service.

IMO, to charge someone like me is nuts, but it is their right to ask for it. i will just take a pass and say "no thanks"


----------



## iamqnow

RAD said:


> I just logged in and both the wireless and powerline adapters are listed along with the AM21.


Yes, but did you actually "click" on them as if to order? Just tried it again and it can't be done.


----------



## RAD

iamqnow said:


> Yes, but did you actually "click" on them as if to order? Just tried it again and it can't be done.


No I didn't since I didn't need to order any. Your OP said they weren't even listed anymore, that's all I checked for.


----------



## uscboy

I really don't like charges from companies that you can't really figure out why 
they charge them beyond the reason of "Because they can".

This is a lot like the DVR charge. I mean, do programming providers charge 
DirecTV more for the consumers to have the right to record? I don't believe so.

So basically DirecTV charges me per month for a software feature (the 
integral software feature) of a box I had to pay for, the HD DVR.... why? 
Because they can basically. It's not that it's logical or fair, I mean Dell 
doesn't charge me extra per month so I can save things on the hard drive of 
the laptop I'm using. It's a basic function of the box I paid for, yet I pay 
monthly for the feature to be "turned on" basically.

This MRV is no different... sure, DirecTV could always say the charge is to 
ROI the engineering and testing time it took to write and develop the code 
required to do this, but really? 

I get paying for service - for channels. That's fair - providers charge DirecTV 
for them... but things like the DVR fee and this new MRV fee are being 
charged really for no reason other than "Because they can".

Wish more companies would be run by folks who made decisions that didn't 
leave the customers feeling slightly ripped off in the end.


----------



## Doug Brott

uscboy said:


> I really don't like charges from companies that you can't really figure out why
> they charge them beyond the reason of "Because they can".


Why do cell phone companies charge you $0.15 for a text message?

Why does Ticket Master charge you a convenience charge?

Why does your bank charge you an ATM fee?

The thing about most businesses is they are in business to make money. When an opportunity arises to do so, someone productizes it and starts charging for it. The MRV fee is certainly very similar to the DVR fee in how it is structured, so there is already a precedent with DIRECTV. Clearly they are not charging for each and every feature that is added, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that some features will not be free.


----------



## bobnielsen

The fee sort of goes against Directv's latest ads where they chide Dish for having a bunch of extra charges.


----------



## Richierich

bobnielsen said:


> The fee sort of goes against Directv's latest ads where they chide Dish for having a bunch of extra charges.


I was just getting ready to post that same statement. I thought how Ironic that Directv is going to charge us for this Service as they are pointing out that Dish does this so I guess it must be alright to Nickel and Dime us as they all do it in the Name Of Profits and the Bottom Line Rules!!!:lol:

I still will gladly pay for it as I have waited over 2 years for this to happen and now it is here and I Can Watch What I Want Anywhere I Want To Watch It!!!

I can also Perform Maintenance Functions anywhere on all of my 6 DVRs so that is really nice and beneficial.


----------



## OptimusPrime

richierich said:
 

> Why are there so many posters making this harder than it is?
> 
> You charge a monthly Fee that allows you to OPT-IN so you can enjoy the MRV Service and help defray the costs of the MRV Software. If you decide you don't think it is for you, then you just never OPT-IN and you will not be charged for it.
> 
> If you can't set up a Wired/Wireless Network, then you call Directv and they will install a Deca System and you pay for the equipment/installation.
> 
> Why should I help pay for someone's system who can't install a Network similar to mine when they didn't help me pay for my Network Environment?
> 
> How do you control it? By only allowing those who OPT-IN to be able to have access to the MRV Service. Very Simple.


Don't the DIRECTV software developers get paid regardless? There have been many software features developed and enabled throughout the many years of my service with DIRECTV. This would be - in my recollection - the first time such a fee is implemented. There are other fees of course, monthly DVR, HD access, etc. But I think there is some grey area here. Is MRV software - or is it a service? I don't think the posters are making anything harder - they are simply stating their opinion on a surprising move by DIRECTV to charge for what we are all agreeing - is a software feature.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

OptimusPrime said:


> Don't the DIRECTV software developers get paid regardless?


This is the worst possible arguement. They earn their pay. They have also created something their employer thinks is very valuable, along with many other people. Ultimately it is up to you and everyone else to decide if MRV is worth having.


----------



## OptimusPrime

scottandregan said:


> This is the worst possible arguement. They earn their pay. They have also created something their employer thinks is very valuable, along with many other people. Ultimately it is up to you and everyone else to decide if MRV is worth having.


scottandregan,

Respectfully - I didn't say the developers don't earn their pay. And I do not believe anyone here is trying underscore all of the great achievements that the software developers are responsible for. I for one - absolutely, 100% appreciate all of their hard work. I'm sure we all do.

And yes - there will be some developments, such as MRV - that both DIRECTV and the customers, find very valuable. My point is - right now, MRV is a grey area...is it considered a software upgrade? I think most of us believe it is. If so, many people feel they are already paying for the equipment that is routinely upgraded and tweaked with new and better features. Then again, will MRV become a new "service?" One that is optional, such as upgrading your programming?

I think a lot of us were surprised to see the notion of a charge due to the past practice of DIRECTV software rollouts. That is the point I was trying to make. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## Doug Brott

There will be a charge for MRV .. It is optional. If you don't pay the fee, then you will not be able to view recordings remotely in another room (in the manner being discussed here)


----------



## hilmar2k

^^^^ Mod speak for get over it and move on. :lol:


----------



## OptimusPrime

OptimusPrime said:


> I don't think the posters are making anything harder - they are simply stating their opinion on a surprising move by DIRECTV to charge for what we are all agreeing - is a software feature.





OptimusPrime said:


> I think a lot of us were surprised to see the notion of a charge due to the past practice of DIRECTV software rollouts.


I'm probably not helping the cause here, but admittedly, I just realized this...didn't "Game Lounge" start out as beta software that eventually became an optional service that you must pay for?


----------



## ben jammin

Sorry, but it's a joke that DirecTV will be charging for this service. ReplayTV offered this as a free, standard feature of their 5000 and 5500 series DVRs literally more than 5 years ago, and from what I can see from the First Look, it even had more features than DirecTV's implementation. My friends with Uverse have had this functionality for more than a year, also for free. I am not aware of any other providers that charge for this service and I think it's a joke that DirecTV is years behind the competition then has the gall to charge for it.


----------



## Movieman

ben jammin said:


> Sorry, but it's a joke that DirecTV will be charging for this service. ReplayTV offered this as a free, standard feature of their 5000 and 5500 series DVRs literally more than 5 years ago, and from what I can see from the First Look, it even had more features than DirecTV's implementation. My friends with Uverse have had this functionality for more than a year, also for free. I am not aware of any other providers that charge for this service and I think it's a joke that DirecTV is years behind the competition then has the gall to charge for it.


What the competitors like U-Verse and FIOS do is charge additional for the boxes that have the capability to use MRV. As for Directv hopefully when it does come time to charge for this the service will be far more advanced than it is now. I do agree that they shouldnt charge for the way it is now but if it improves then I dont see much of a problem. Hopefully if enough people participate in the Beta some good things can come out of some free testing.


----------



## Markg123

Doug Brott said:


> 0x395 is not yet available as a national release. It will be available very soon.


I just forced a software upgrade, but it says 0x368 is the latest version.
When will 0x395 be available in Santa Rosa?

Mark


----------



## veryoldschool

Markg123 said:


> I just forced a software upgrade, but it says 0x368 is the latest version.
> When will 0x395 be available in Santa Rosa?
> 
> Mark


With all staggered rollouts, you can't force them, since they're on different transponders.
You need to wait until it's pushed to your receiver. "Could be" later tonight or tomorrow night, or...


----------



## cavinny

This looks great over a linksys network...even high def programming.


----------



## Shawnn

Rob said:


> Next they need to let us access our receivers over the internet like a slingbox. Like I'm in Boston and able to reach back to my HR2X back in San Diego.


If you had a router to router VPN and a very fast internet connection at both locations in theory SD viewing might be possible.


----------



## woollybully

Nice arguments about why they shouldn't charge for MRV. Today, it's a "me too" feature that Directv is years late in providing. How do they figure they are going to charge for it, especially when it is still missing most of the features that the others already have (filtering, remote recording, etc). Now, what I would pay for is open DLNA. Let me stream from my HR recordings to a PS3, XBOX, Blu-Ray, HDTV, MediaPC, etc. and that would be worth the charge. Simply charging for a feature they should have had a year ago is ridiculous.


----------



## Doug Brott

veryoldschool said:


> With all staggered rollouts, you can't force them, since they're on different transponders.
> You need to wait until it's pushed to your receiver. "Could be" later tonight or tomorrow night, or...


Correct, there is no way to force a download of 0x395 at this time.


----------



## Doug Brott

woollybully said:


> Nice arguments about why they shouldn't charge for MRV. Today, it's a "me too" feature that Directv is years late in providing. How do they figure they are going to charge for it, especially when it is still missing most of the features that the others already have (filtering, remote recording, etc). Now, what I would pay for is open DLNA. Let me stream from my HR recordings to a PS3, XBOX, Blu-Ray, HDTV, MediaPC, etc. and that would be worth the charge. Simply charging for a feature they should have had a year ago is ridiculous.


DIRECTV is part of the RVU Alliance. That is the most likely path for any third party access to DIRECTV's STBs.


----------



## samrs

Doug Brott said:


> Correct, there is no way to force a download of 0x395 at this time.


I forced both of my HR20's, 0x395 at 0330 EST.

The MRV works. How's my son fill a 1TB drive, damn.


----------



## spartanstew

Doug Brott said:


> Why do cell phone companies charge you $0.15 for a text message?
> 
> Why does your bank charge you an ATM fee?


Both of those are fees that can be avoided/waived. I don't pay for each text messages (it's in my package), nor do I pay for ATM fees (I keep a minimum balance in savings). Will D* have options to avoid the fee too?

D* needs to start creating packages that include all these items (like the choice + DVR + HD), but are cheaper overall, for those that want to take advantage of all D* has to offer without paying alacarte prices.

Maybe they should have 2 levels of Premiere packages. Both would include HD,DVR, and MRV with one having Premium channels and one without. The cost for bundling all these would have a discount vs having Choice+DVR+HD+MRV seperately (for example).


----------



## Tom_S

ben jammin said:


> Sorry, but it's a joke that DirecTV will be charging for this service. ReplayTV offered this as a free, standard feature of their 5000 and 5500 series DVRs literally more than 5 years ago, and from what I can see from the First Look, it even had more features than DirecTV's implementation. My friends with Uverse have had this functionality for more than a year, also for free. I am not aware of any other providers that charge for this service and I think it's a joke that DirecTV is years behind the competition then has the gall to charge for it.


Just because it's not broken out as a separate line item on your bill does not mean it's free. It's just included in some other charge. Companies are not in the business of giving stuff away for free, there is always some means of recouping an investment on their part. e.g. a free upgrade to HD receiver means now you subscribe to higher priced HD programming, see what I mean, Free isn't always free.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

bobnielsen said:


> The fee sort of goes against Directv's latest ads where they chide Dish for having a bunch of extra charges.


So true. I laughed my a** off last night when I saw that commercial.

*Disclaimer. Do not read this post. This is another "not happy with MRV fee" post.

NFL ST fees = going up
Monthly programming fees = going up
DVR fees = going up
Now, soon to have MRV fees
Now DIRECTV is running an ad campaign stating that DISH has abundant fees. :lol::uglyhamme!rolling

Since our monthly programming fees are going up next month, shouldn't that more than cover the MRV costs? :scratchin

*Disclaimer. This "not happy with MRV fee" post is now over. Please continue reading at your leisure.


----------



## JeffBowser

There is a huge contingent up here that wants ala-carte pricing, that's a losing argument.

DirecTV invested time, software development, and hardware development into this solution. If they charge, they are certainly within rights. We all have an equal right to buy not buy into this, too.



> D* needs to start creating packages that include all these items (like the choice + DVR + HD), but are cheaper overall, for those that want to take advantage of all D* has to offer without paying alacarte prices.


----------



## Doug Brott

spartanstew said:


> Both of those are fees that can be avoided/waived. I don't pay for each text messages (it's in my package), nor do I pay for ATM fees (I keep a minimum balance in savings). Will D* have options to avoid the fee too?


I'm not aware of any bundling of services .. If anything DIRECTV is unbundling its services these days. A bundle would be nice.


----------



## Doug Brott

Hutchinshouse said:


> So true. I laughed my a** off last night when I saw that commercial.
> 
> *Disclaimer. Do not read this post. This is another "not happy with MRV fee" post.
> 
> NFL ST fees = going up
> Monthly programming fees = going up
> DVR fees = going up
> Now, soon to have MRV fees
> Now DIRECTV is running an ad campaign stating that DISH has abundant fees. :lol::uglyhamme!rolling
> 
> Since our monthly programming fees are going up next month, shouldn't that more than cover the MRV costs? :scratchin
> 
> *Disclaimer. This "not happy with MRV fee" post is now over. Please continue reading at your leisure.


I know your post is kinda tiptoeing on the line here, but let's not turn this into a general 'prices are going up' thread .. We have a thread for that already: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=170265

Discussing the MRV fee here is quite acceptable of course.


----------



## Richierich

Hutchinshouse said:


> So true. I laughed my a** off last night when I saw that commercial.
> 
> *Disclaimer. Do not read this post. This is another "not happy with MRV fee" post.
> 
> NFL ST fees = going up
> Monthly programming fees = going up
> DVR fees = going up
> Now, soon to have MRV fees
> Now DIRECTV is running an ad campaign stating that DISH has abundant fees. :lol::uglyhamme!rolling
> 
> Since our monthly programming fees are going up next month, shouldn't that more than cover the MRV costs? :scratchin
> 
> *Disclaimer. This "not happy with MRV fee" post is now over. Please continue reading at your leisure.


Gotta Pay For The Launch Of D12!!! If you want The Travel Channel In HD then you gotta Pony Up!!! :lol:

I like Ala Carte Fee Charging myself and I Will Gladly Pay For The MRV Fee as this has been the Greatest Addition that I have seen. I don't care for all the other Bells & Whistles such as Apps, DoublePlay which I rarely use but I do use MRV every time I use one of my DVRs.


----------



## BubblePuppy

richierich said:


> Why are there so many posters making this harder than it is?
> 
> You charge a monthly Fee that allows you to OPT-IN so you can enjoy the MRV Service and help defray the costs of the MRV Software. If you decide you don't think it is for you, then you just never OPT-IN and you will not be charged for it.
> 
> If you can't set up a Wired/Wireless Network, then you call Directv and they will install a Deca System and you pay for the equipment/installation.
> 
> Why should I help pay for someone's system who can't install a Network similar to mine when they didn't help me pay for my Network Environment?
> 
> How do you control it? *By only allowing those who OPT-IN to be able to have access to the MRV Service.* Very Simple.


And pay for it.


----------



## mikeny

As I've said before, "file sharing" is inherent in computer operating systems. There are no extra fees collected by Microsoft or Apple for that. 

I don't see a difference in that vs. this variation of sharing through the DVRs.


----------



## steveken

Rob said:


> Next they need to let us access our receivers over the internet like a slingbox. Like I'm in Boston and able to reach back to my HR2X back in San Diego.


Actually, what they need to do is to allow you to see what is currently scheduled via the web or iPhone app. They let you send record requests to it, but you really need to be able to see if you have anything else scheduled for then or not.


----------



## steveken

nino2469 said:


> 2.99 or 3.99 I would be ok paying. When you start getting into the 5.99 or higher realm then I have a problem with that.
> 
> On another note, I may be purchasing a new home in the next couple of weeks. If I call for the movers connection can I specify that I want them to use the SWM in the new home or is that a given at this point?


In my case I told them I wanted a SWM and they put it on the work order. I am willing to bet, though, that they are doing most new installs with SWM's anyway.


----------



## steveken

richierich said:


> Why are there so many posters making this harder than it is?
> 
> You charge a monthly Fee that allows you to OPT-IN so you can enjoy the MRV Service and help defray the costs of the MRV Software. If you decide you don't think it is for you, then you just never OPT-IN and you will not be charged for it.
> 
> If you can't set up a Wired/Wireless Network, then you call Directv and they will install a Deca System and you pay for the equipment/installation.
> 
> Why should I help pay for someone's system who can't install a Network similar to mine when they didn't help me pay for my Network Environment?
> 
> How do you control it? By only allowing those who OPT-IN to be able to have access to the MRV Service. Very Simple.


Or think about it this way, MAYBE they will be charging a monthly rate for MRV because the content PROVIDERS got all pissy about them letting you watch something you recorded on one TV over on a different TV??? I mean, we all know that people who make TV programs are wanting to get as much money out of their broadcast partners as they possibly can. This seems to be yet another example of them wanting more cash for the coffers.


----------



## steveken

dhines said:


> the only part that kills me is, this will open the door to all new functionality being a charged fee. IMO, if you are already paying for the top tier package, why should you be nickled and dimed to death?
> 
> but, it is what it is . . . . and i for one won't pay an extra penny for it; just on principle. my bill (not counting mirror/lease fees) is already pay $141 per month (HD, premeir, protection plan, setanta). and it would be $6 more if i wasn't grandfathered into the bundled DVR service.
> 
> IMO, to charge someone like me is nuts, but it is their right to ask for it. i will just take a pass and say "no thanks"


Exactly!! Why call it Premier if you don't get EVERYTHING for that ONE PRICE???? I mean, come the frick on! How hard would it be for them to let you have DVR, HD, HD Extra, and whatever else fees that aren't included in that god awful price? I mean, I have the next to highest package, sports pack, HD, and HD Extra along with a couple of other receivers and my bill is like only a few bucks away from being Premier! I would think that if you are going to have a package touted as having EVERYTHING, then include all the nickle and dime crap with it. It's just ridiculous!

EDIT: Sorry, realize this post is completely off topic. Ignore it if you want. Do not help me out by getting on a prices are too high shpiel.


----------



## Doug Brott

mikeny said:


> As I've said before, "file sharing" is inherent in computer operating systems. There are no extra fees collected by Microsoft or Apple for that.
> 
> I don't see a difference in that vs. this variation of sharing through the DVRs.


Ever hear of this thing call iTunes? That's a version of "file sharing," is it not?


----------



## Doug Brott

steveken said:


> In my case I told them I wanted a SWM and they put it on the work order. I am willing to bet, though, that they are doing most new installs with SWM's anyway.


All new installs should be SWiMs now.


----------



## BubblePuppy

Doug Brott said:


> All new installs should be SWiMs now.


Mine wasn't. The install was two months ago.


----------



## mikeny

Doug Brott said:


> Ever hear of this thing call iTunes? That's a version of "file sharing," is it not?


It's file purchasing. Once purchased, you can load it on any device or on your computer and play it for free. Can't you?

Similarly, we've already purchased the content through our sub package, the DVR service to record it, and lease fee as well. We should be able to use one or all of those fees to say that we paid for it already.

Could I live with $2.99 a month? I probably would but I wouldn't think it's fair.


----------



## mikeny

A lot of us used to tape a show on a VCR and bring the tape into different rooms. That was free. I'm not sure how different this is. Of course, DRM issues exist. This is the future, I guess.


----------



## twowheelchopper

If DTV plans to charge a monthly fee for me to watch a DVR program on my own DTV box from my other DTV box, I am not buying. These units are both inside my house and why do I need to pay extra to watch it from another DTV box that I paid extra for. I will save the few bucks a month and walk downstairs and watch it. I have done the hassle of runnning ethernet cables to my DTV boxes and find this a slap in the face. What's next? Do they plan to charge me a fee everytime I watch a program I recorded onto my DVR??? AT&T U-Verse is on the other side of my neighborhood and is coming, bye-bye DirecTV!


----------



## Baconbeard

Quick question.

Can you still use this feature if you have a standard boob tube as part of your network. Say for example that someone has only one HDTV, and thus only one HD DVR.

If you were to upgrade to an H21 or H23, will those work on a standard tv? If so, would you be able to watch a program on this tv that was recorded in HD on the server? I would think that it would work, although you would likely have some aspect ratio issues if you were trying to watch an HD program on a 4:3 tv.


----------



## gio12

There should be a one time charge for the Deca equipment and that's it!

Some of you guys say "well directv will support it." Support what? You mean, I am sorry, please pack up your DVR or Deca and send it back for replacement? That's support? Directv tech support really knows nothing about networking.

Think ANYONE at all levels of support gave me some support for my WET610N issues? No, pleas send back your DVR and start over.  :nono2:

DELETED material by me

The DVR service was raised, this should pay for MRV if I don't use the DECA system and I am on my own.

I don't call "remote" viewing, viewing within my home. Its more like DVR sharing. 

Package pricing is one thing. I understand this to a point. But adding a $2.95-4.99 fee for MVR will push a some packages over $100 for one room with taxes!

Sadly, I want and kinda need MVR. So I will be stuck I guess. Yes, I want the DECA stuff! That looks awesome!


----------



## RAD

Baconbeard said:


> Quick question.
> 
> Can you still use this feature if you have a standard boob tube as part of your network. Say for example that someone has only one HDTV, and thus only one HD DVR.
> 
> If you were to upgrade to an H21 or H23, will those work on a standard tv? If so, would you be able to watch a program on this tv that was recorded in HD on the server? I would think that it would work, although you would likely have some aspect ratio issues if you were trying to watch an HD program on a 4:3 tv.


Yes, you can connect a H21/23 to a SD TV as long as it has a composite or s-video input on it and use it to view content via MRV. The H21/23 will downconvert the program to 480i and 4:3 adding black bars or squishing the picture depening on what format you choose. Why not more your SD TV to where your HD DVR is and try it out there to see if you're OK with the picture.


----------



## gio12

Doug Brott said:


> All new installs should be SWiMs now.


What is a 9SWiM? Differnt than a SWM? You can PM on this if you like. Thanks!


----------



## dpeters11

VARTV said:


> I'm curious to see how my home network will handle this. Bridges and router are N+


It might depend on your setup, and other devices. Generally, if you have a 2.4ghz N network, but something that's G or B is using it, it slows everything else down.

If you have a dual band N network, and put the receivers on the 5ghz band, and everything else on 2.4, that would get the best performance. The WGA600N that DirecTV supports is dual band.


----------



## gio12

Doug Brott said:


> Ever hear of this thing call iTunes? That's a version of "file sharing," is it not?


Yes, I can share my files with different iPods, iPhones, computers and Apple TV for FREE! They have FREE HOME SHARING.

Sorry, MRV should be free. Pay for any equipment and its a free service.
Nickel and dimeing people is getting old.


----------



## LameLefty

gio12 said:


> Yes, I can share my files with different iPods, iPhones, computers and Apple TV for FREE! They have FREE HOME SHARING.
> 
> Sorry, MRV should be free. Pay for any equipment and its a free service.
> Nickel and dimeing people is getting old.


Only because your iTunes LICENSE says you can share it. Until that deal was worked out the with content-providers, you could not.

Similarly, and contrary to what some people seem to think, you're not paying "for programming" to own it. You're licensing to watch it pursuant to U.S. copyright law. You are allowed to record it pursuant to your LICENSING agreement with Directv for the use of their software and pursuant to commonly-accepted fair-use exemptions to copyright.

That's it.


----------



## Doug Brott

gio12 said:


> What is a 9SWiM? Differnt than a SWM? You can PM on this if you like. Thanks!


A SWiM is the new term that DIRECTV is using for SWM since incternally they've been calling it 'swim' since the beginning ..


----------



## Doug Brott

gio12 said:


> Look, I know some of the "Testers" and "mods" here are Shills/Off the Record D* employees to some capacity, but come on on.


Ah does name calling make you feel better?

I am a DIRECTV enthusiast .. As a result, I present things the way I see fit. If that comes across as "pro" DIRECTV then so be it. I like my DIRECTV service and as a result, I share that experience with others.

Since a 'shill' is someone who is paid to help another person or organization to sell goods or services, I can say point blank .. That is not the case. I will disclose that I have on occasion received pre-release test equipment in the past, but that is no different than any of you guys calling up and getting "free" HD DVRs with a 2-year commitment. I have never been paid to hawk DIRECTV's wares. In fact, if paying for MRV is a burden or a matter of principle for you - I'd suggest that you don't pay it and continue to live without MRV as you have been up until now.

As for being "off the record DIRECTV employees?" Well, now you are simply making stuff up as that couldn't be farther from the truth. It is true that Earl Bonovich was once a mod. When he moved on to DIRECTV, his moderation rights here were revoked. There are no DIRECTV or DISH employees on staff here @ DBSTalk.com. To even suggest that is simply a lie.


----------



## gio12

Doug Brott said:


> Ah does name calling make you feel better?
> 
> I am a DIRECTV enthusiast .. As a result, I present things the way I see fit. If that comes across as "pro" DIRECTV then so be it. I like my DIRECTV service and as a result, I share that experience with others.
> 
> Since a 'shill' is someone who is paid to help another person or organization to sell goods or services, I can say point blank .. That is not the case. I will disclose that I have on occasion received pre-release test equipment in the past, but that is no different than any of you guys calling up and getting "free" HD DVRs with a 2-year commitment. I have never been paid to hawk DIRECTV's wares. In fact, if paying for MRV is a burden or a matter of principle for you - I'd suggest that you don't pay it and continue to live without MRV as you have been up until now.
> 
> As for being "off the record DIRECTV employees?" Well, now you are simply making stuff up as that couldn't be farther from the truth. It is true that Earl Bonovich was once a mod. When he moved on to DIRECTV, his moderation rights here were revoked. There are no DIRECTV or DISH employees on staff here @ DBSTalk.com. To even suggest that is simply a lie.


Doug, not meant to be "name calling", but you get what I mean. What i meant as a off the recore employee is EXACTLY what you said. Getting free equipment, but in turn no negative comments can be made about directv, their programming, fess, etc.

You getting a free equipment is nothing like any of us getting a free HD DVR with a 2yr thing. That's is the funniest thing I have heard yet!

Look, you do a lot for this board and I guess directv rewards you for it with free beat test stuff and what not. But I guess with this privilege comes restrictions on what you can and can't say.

yes, that has been outed before here about MODs a while back IIRC. I am not talking about CE stuff either.

DBSTlak is the place for support for directv with guys like you around. But directv charging for MRV suport by having techs tell us to send out equipment back or return stuff to the store (WE610M) is NOT support.

I am done with this subject. I don't what to hijack this thread anymore.

My apologies.


----------



## Rakul

While I personally am not looking forward to paying anything extra for this I look at it this way. Companies that plan to be around will always charge what they think the market will allow for any given good or service. Obviously DirecTV does not think MRV for free is enough of a selling point to bring enough subscribers in where the net add in sales covers what they want to make from it.

Is it right? Well I guess that depends on whose side your own, for me no but for the shareholders sure. If we don't like it the best way we can say so is opt in for the Beta and opt out when they start to charge. But if enough people are paying for it and they are not being harmed due to folks dropping service over it what reason do they have to stop charging?


----------



## Doug Brott

gio12 said:


> Doug, not meant to be "name calling", but you get what I mean. What i meant as a off the recore employee is EXACTLY what you said. Getting free equipment, but in turn no negative comments can be made about directv, their programming, fess, etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> My apologies.


As I said .. I'm an enthusiast and I enjoy my DIRECTV service .. I share my experience as such. The fact that I try to work positively toward change just means that is who I am, nothing more.

I've also cut back on service over the past couple of years because I simply cannot afford it anymore. I will be paying the MRV assuming it's $3-4/month. MRV is valuable enough to me to do that. That will not be the case for everyone and in those situations .. Don't pay.


----------



## RAD

gio12 said:


> Doug, not meant to be "name calling", but you get what I mean. What i meant as a off the recore employee is EXACTLY what you said. Getting free equipment, but in turn no negative comments can be made about directv, their programming, fess, etc..


As someone that has receiver free hardware from DirecTV, every now and then as part of the early release testing program, I've NEVER been told that I can't post negative comments about DirecTV hardware or services. I've posted a number of times that I disagree with the MRV fee, I've posted unhappyness with HD DVR UI performance and other issues. I know of other members here that have also been part of the early release program and they have been just as vocal about problems and issues with DirecTV. The only limitations on posts are the same as everyone that posts on DBSTalk and that's follow the DBSTalk rules.


----------



## LameLefty

RAD said:


> As someone that has receiver free hardware from DirecTV, every now and then as part of the early release testing program, I've NEVER been told that I can't post negative comments about DirecTV hardware or services. I've posted a number of times that I disagree with the MRV fee, I've posted unhappyness with HD DVR UI performance and other issues. I know of other members here that have also been part of the early release program and they have been just as vocal about problems and issues with DirecTV. The only limitations on posts are the same as everyone that posts on DBSTalk and that's follow the DBSTalk rules.


Ditto. And contrary to the belief among some around here, those rules really boil down to one thing: BE POLITE. Don't call people names and then try to coyly "hide" the insult with a wink or a smilie. Don't be contrary to the point of boorishness. Don't belittle others. Really, if you keep those helpful hints you should've learned from your parents in mind, you'll probably never, ever have a problem here no matter what you say about Directv, Dish or the man in the moon.

That said, I don't like the idea of an MRV fee but I'll pay it because I have content scattered across five DVRs in my house and it would be nice to be able to record and share different stuff on different machines. It's worth it to me. However, I am almost certainly going to drop NFLST this year - even getting Superfan for free (which I got just by calling up and politely asking) isn't going to be enough this year. I wish movie channels were less expensive and I wish the entire HBO cineplex was available and in HD. Hopefully that will change soon, but as it is, I don't count on it and I won't ***** about the lack incessantly in the hopes that my whines change anything.

So yeah, some of us "shills" still have our complaints; we just don't let them dominate the contents of our thoughts or posts all the time. :grin:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm insulted.

Here I was, ready to read a flurry of ego-enhancing posts about an excellently written first look document (if I do say so myself, even though I was only one of the 50 or so collaborators on this document) and I find out that you're bickering amongst yourselves!

Well, if we had a smilie for pouting, you'd see it!

Let's get back to discussing MRV and not pick on each other.

Thank you.

 OK, I'm not really insulted or pouting, but it seemed like a better approach than being a big mean meanie.


----------



## azentropy

LameLefty said:


> Only because your iTunes LICENSE says you can share it. Until that deal was worked out the with content-providers, you could not.
> 
> Similarly, and contrary to what some people seem to think, you're not paying "for programming" to own it. You're licensing to watch it pursuant to U.S. copyright law. You are allowed to record it pursuant to your LICENSING agreement with Directv for the use of their software and pursuant to commonly-accepted fair-use exemptions to copyright.
> 
> That's it.


Actually that isn't it as you are incorrect. You have always been able to share your "iTunes" stuff on up to 5 machines/devices for FREE. The new deal did not affect that, it just allowed Apple to sell without any copyright protection.


----------



## BubblePuppy

When I first heard that there will be a fee for MRV I said "No way I'll pay". However, I have changed my mind, even with only two dvrs I like the feature. I just hope that the SWM/Deca install is included, or at least very affordable. I can handle the modest MRV fee....I'll just drive my car two gallons of gas less. No problem.


----------



## twowheelchopper

If DirecTV was setup up with A la carte channel pricing, I would not have issues with this being a few bucks more. How about taking away all the @home shopping and religion channels and give me free MRV! You can keep the Apps and Interactive stuff too. They are super slow and buggy. I think if you already pay for DVR service, this should be included. I have been with DTV since '96 and have always loved the service and price, but this type of stuff will make a customer go and seek the competition.


----------



## dpeters11

twowheelchopper said:


> If DirecTV was setup up with A la carte channel pricing, I would not have issues with this being a few bucks more. How about taking away all the @home shopping and religion channels and give me free MRV! You can keep the Apps and Interactive stuff too. They are super slow and buggy. I think if you already pay for DVR service, this should be included. I have been with DTV since '96 and have always loved the service and price, but this type of stuff will make a customer go and seek the competition.


One question...how would taking away the religion and shopping channels help get MRV for free? Carriers don't pay for those channels from my understanding, those channels pay the carrier.


----------



## twowheelchopper

dpeters11 said:


> Carriers don't pay for those channels from my understanding, those channels pay the carrier.


You sure about that?


----------



## Rakul

twowheelchopper said:


> You sure about that?


Yes, those channels pay DirecTV to be on the air, well the shopping channels do. The religious channels might fall under some FCC guidelines like must carry but I'm pretty sure DirecTV does not pay them, but not sure if DirecTV is paid by them either.


----------



## steveken

twowheelchopper said:


> You sure about that?


Yes, he's very right. Those smaller channels that NEED people to watch them have always had to pony up to get carried. Otherwise, DirecTV wouldn't give a rats behind about them and leave them to cable. Only the major, big dog players in the market get paid by the carriers strictly because they know they have content people want and they have contracts set up to make sure they get as much as they can. You will never see NBC, TNT, or FOX pay anyone else to make sure their crap is carried. They have you where they want you and they know that if they aren't there, you are going to call up DirecTV and ***** about it until they carry it which will require them to negotiate a deal forcing them to shell out big bucks. Why do you think Versus isn't on?


----------



## twowheelchopper

Rakul said:


> Yes, those channels pay DirecTV to be on the air, well the shopping channels do. The religious channels might fall under some FCC guidelines like must carry but I'm pretty sure DirecTV does not pay them, but not sure if DirecTV is paid by them either.


Well the good thing is that IPTV will be taking over cable and satelite providers in years to come due them providing a la carte pricing options.


----------



## steveken

Anyway, not the point. Neither is the damn fee's they *might* charge for MRV. This thread is about the Opt-In Beta and its equipment and its performance. Let's leave it there.


----------



## dpeters11

Rakul said:


> Yes, those channels pay DirecTV to be on the air, well the shopping channels do. The religious channels might fall under some FCC guidelines like must carry but I'm pretty sure DirecTV does not pay them, but not sure if DirecTV is paid by them either.


Ok, I revoke my comment. I was wrong, the religious channels don't pay, but the carriers are required by law to carry a certain number. It's probably also one reason you don't see many in HD.

I stand by shopping channels paying DirecTV. QVC is owned by Liberty but would think that wouldn't change.


----------



## steveken

twowheelchopper said:


> Well the good thing is that IPTV will be taking over cable and satelite providers in years to come due them providing a la carte pricing options.


Ok, gotta ask, WHO provides a la carte pricing amongst IPTV providers? AT&T U-Verse sure as hell doesn't.


----------



## biggie4852

My complaint is that DTV said no to SWM for my house just four month ago. But what frustrated me more was they instead okay a two day 8 hour wiring jobs. This meant rewiring a new two story house with dual wire cat6 cabling through the attic. My home was pre-wire with cat5 cable to every room tied to a smart box with my Fios in my closet He also move my dish to a new location and ran wiring from outside into the garage and then connecting all the boxes.(4 HD DVR 1 H10-250). Now we have been in this house 5 years had HD since 05 and no problems with signal or anything else. I network my HD myself with 200 mbs power line adapters, which don't come cheap. 

Now if I read this right only SWM set up will be approved and I will NEED DECA for networking as well is unbelievable. I talk to someone at DTV before the installer did all this work on my home. I was told by a supervisor no to SWM even though I had 4 HD DVR. Then I went up the line to the next manager and asking for the SWM. I tried using the knowledge I gain on this forum how SWM was the correct solution, instead of this giant rewire job. I was told by DTV, we have problem with SWM and will not unstalled it, because we are having to come back to many times to redo the set up. So they did this rewire and this man did a great job. He hide all the wire and ran the outside wire under the eves really secured the dish and took down the old mount and fill the holes really professional workman. All that said I'm still pissed that I will have pay to watch something in the other room.lol.. 

Wow if my old man was alive he would kick my ass. He tell me son get up walk in the other room you don't need to pay a fee for something that is free. Dang the guy who invented remote controls! I think he start all this laziness in Americans, I was the remote in my house back then.


----------



## twowheelchopper

steveken said:


> Ok, gotta ask, WHO provides a la carte pricing amongst IPTV providers? AT&T U-Verse sure as hell doesn't.


In the future, nothing yet but it is coming.


----------



## twowheelchopper

steveken said:


> Anyway, not the point. Neither is the damn fee's they *might* charge for MRV. This thread is about the Opt-In Beta and its equipment and its performance. Let's leave it there.


Okay, you win. I will drop MRV fees are a ripoff and should be included in the DVR pricing package. I guess I won't bring up that I also feel it is unethical to charge extra for the NFL ticket in HD if you alreay pay for HD on your regular programing package.

I will drink my Kool-aide and like it...


----------



## Doug Brott

Whoa Guys .. Let's get :backtotop .. this is the MRV coming to DIRECTV thread not the Ala Carte Channel thread.


----------



## 430970

Does anyone know if they plan a "mesh my tuners" together kind of feature?

Like many, I sometimes run into a scenario where a third tuner would be nice (three shows at same time I'd like to record). Obviously, with two receivers I can manually set up one of those shows on receiver 2 and two on receiver 1. Then with MRV I could watch any of the three shows on either receiver.

What would be nice though is a feature that says, "I've got a conflict, is there a tuner free on any other receiver? Oh yes, there is. I will record it there unless you say not to" (or something like that). This is important b/c sometimes the programs move around, so it's not always possible to know in advance whether a program will conflict with two other things you already have set up.

If MRV were to have things like that in it, I would consider the fee a lot more reasonable. Otherwise I think they should just include it in the DVR fee. Call it the "advanced device fee" or whatever. But paying something like 1/2 the total DVR fee for a single extra feature seems out of line, imho.


----------



## LameLefty

jcricket said:


> Does anyone know if they plan a "mesh my tuners" together kind of feature?
> 
> Like many, I sometimes run into a scenario where a third tuner would be nice (three shows at same time I'd like to record). Obviously, with two receivers I can manually set up one of those shows on receiver 2 and two on receiver 1. Then with MRV I could watch any of the three shows on either receiver.
> 
> What would be nice though is a feature that says, "I've got a conflict, is there a tuner free on any other receiver? Oh yes, there is. I will record it there unless you say not to" (or something like that). This is important b/c sometimes the programs move around, so it's not always possible to know in advance whether a program will conflict with two other things you already have set up.
> 
> If MRV were to have things like that in it, I would consider the fee a lot more reasonable. Otherwise I think they should just include it in the DVR fee. Call it the "advanced device fee" or whatever. But paying something like 1/2 the total DVR fee for a single extra feature seems out of line, imho.


I am optimistic something like that will be added as MRV matures. After all, even as things stand now you can schedule something to record remotely from an H21/23 box and select which DVR it is to record on. That functionality, plus a check of the To Do lists across the LAN, would allow such a feature.


----------



## BubblePuppy

LameLefty said:


> I am optimistic something like that will be added as MRV matures. After all, even as things stand now you can *schedule something to record remotely from an H21/23 box and select which DVR it is to record on. *That functionality, plus a check of the To Do lists across the LAN, would allow such a feature.


I really am hoping that will be included in MRV for the HRs.


----------



## Lee L

Well, if you have say 8 tuners available on all your boxes, you can record 8 things at once and watch them all from any of the 4 HR2xs in the house, so while it is not automatic, it is still pretty sweet.

It is a little funny seeing more than 2 recording R's in the List at one time.


----------



## dpeters11

jcricket said:


> Does anyone know if they plan a "mesh my tuners" together kind of feature?
> 
> Like many, I sometimes run into a scenario where a third tuner would be nice (three shows at same time I'd like to record). Obviously, with two receivers I can manually set up one of those shows on receiver 2 and two on receiver 1. Then with MRV I could watch any of the three shows on either receiver.
> 
> What would be nice though is a feature that says, "I've got a conflict, is there a tuner free on any other receiver? Oh yes, there is. I will record it there unless you say not to" (or something like that). This is important b/c sometimes the programs move around, so it's not always possible to know in advance whether a program will conflict with two other things you already have set up.
> 
> If MRV were to have things like that in it, I would consider the fee a lot more reasonable. Otherwise I think they should just include it in the DVR fee. Call it the "advanced device fee" or whatever. But paying something like 1/2 the total DVR fee for a single extra feature seems out of line, imho.


I would love this, and is part of what I was hoping MRV would be when we first were hoping it'd happen. But it's very possible that they just want to get the basics solid first, that kind of feature complicates things.


----------



## RickD_99

I currently have a lone HR20-700 receiver in my living room (install was several years ago so no SWM). I also have a wireless N network set up which works pretty well. I do have the HR20-700 networked to this N setup.

I recently purchased a small 32" HDTV for use with my Wii Fit setup in my exercise room. If I wanted to pipe D* programming to this new TV could I purchase a H21 from Worst Buy and simply network it to a PC with an N wireless adapter and then opt in to the beta program? I understand that I would need the latest firmware update for both receivers; guess I could replace the HR20 in my living room with the H21 on my existing cabling overnight so that the H21 could update to the latest firmware....

Will this work or am I missing something key here? The goal of course is to distribute D* programming to the new TV without D* having to come out to install additional cabling.


----------



## dave29

RickD_99 said:


> I currently have a lone HR20-700 receiver in my living room (install was several years ago so no SWM). I also have a wireless N network set up which works pretty well. I do have the HR20-700 networked to this N setup.
> 
> I recently purchased a small 32" HDTV for use with my Wii Fit setup in my exercise room. If I wanted to pipe D* programming to this new TV could I purchase a H21 from Worst Buy and simply network it to a PC with an N wireless adapter and then opt in to the beta program? I understand that I would need the latest firmware update for both receivers; guess I could replace the HR20 in my living room with the H21 on my existing cabling overnight so that the H21 could upate to the latest firmware....
> 
> Will this work or am I missing something key here? The goal of course is to distribute D* programming to the new TV without D* having to come out to install additional cabling.


If they are both networked and have the correct firmware, it will work.


----------



## Doug Brott

jcricket said:


> Does anyone know if they plan a "mesh my tuners" together kind of feature?
> 
> Like many, I sometimes run into a scenario where a third tuner would be nice (three shows at same time I'd like to record). Obviously, with two receivers I can manually set up one of those shows on receiver 2 and two on receiver 1. Then with MRV I could watch any of the three shows on either receiver.
> 
> What would be nice though is a feature that says, "I've got a conflict, is there a tuner free on any other receiver? Oh yes, there is. I will record it there unless you say not to" (or something like that). This is important b/c sometimes the programs move around, so it's not always possible to know in advance whether a program will conflict with two other things you already have set up.
> 
> If MRV were to have things like that in it, I would consider the fee a lot more reasonable. Otherwise I think they should just include it in the DVR fee. Call it the "advanced device fee" or whatever. But paying something like 1/2 the total DVR fee for a single extra feature seems out of line, imho.


I think the term you are looking for is *collaborative scheduling* .. I do not know if DIRECTV intends to support this as a feature or not.


----------



## TBlazer07

I think (it seems obvious) the main "direction" of DirecTV MRV is towards the single DVR multiple client mode so therefore they (IMO) won't bother with DVR->DVR features like separate folders for separate DVR playlist or the ability to "roll over" recordings to a remote DVR automatically or other "advanced" DVR->DVR features. 

While they obviously won't remove DVR->DVR MRV I don't think they are going to enhance it as much as we all hope. I believe this beta is mainly aimed at preparing software for their home server solution while they wait for the new server to be ready. The server/client solution will be much cheaper to implement for subscribers and I have little doubt that's what they will be pushing which might explain why the "beta page" for MRV at DirecTV.com says what it says with regard to needing a DVR and a RX and not hawking the DVR->DVR model.


----------



## pappy97

Well I for one am REALLY EXCITED about this.

I have an H21 in the bedroom, and HR22's in the living room and HT room.

My question is simple:

MRV is the first time I've had reason to connect the H21 to my network (as HD NON-DVR receivers don't support on demand). Connecting the H21 to my network should be just as simple as when I connected the HR22's to my network, correct?

I.e., I can connect my H21 to my router via an ethernet cable, right? Thanks!


----------



## Rakul

Well if the fee is a couple bucks a month if nothing else I might drop one of my HR's the only reason I have them is conflicts, if I can save five bucks a month it might more than pay for the MRV.


----------



## dave29

pappy97 said:


> Well I for one am REALLY EXCITED about this.
> 
> I have an H21 in the bedroom, and HR22's in the living room and HT room.
> 
> My question is simple:
> 
> MRV is the first time I've had reason to connect the H21 to my network (as HD NON-DVR receivers don't support on demand). Connecting the H21 to my network should be just as simple as when I connected the HR22's to my network, correct?
> 
> I.e., I can connect my H21 to my router via an ethernet cable, right? Thanks!


Yep


----------



## Doug Brott

Rakul said:


> Well if the fee is a couple bucks a month if nothing else I might drop one of my HR's the only reason I have them is conflicts, if I can save five bucks a month it might more than pay for the MRV.


This is certainly one way you can help stabilize your costs


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Stuart Sweet said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, I'm insulted.
> 
> Here I was, ready to read a flurry of ego-enhancing posts about an excellently written first look document (if I do say so myself, even though I was only one of the 50 or so collaborators on this document) and I find out that you're bickering amongst yourselves!
> 
> Well, if we had a smilie for pouting, you'd see it!
> 
> Let's get back to discussing MRV and not pick on each other.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> OK, I'm not really insulted or pouting, but it seemed like a better approach than being a big mean meanie.


As you know, I'm not a big fan of extra fees. :lol: Plus, believe it or not, I'm not negative all the time.  Maybe once I get my channel (in HD) I'll be perpetually happy. I may even become a fanboy. On that note, I personally think the first look pdf is sweet! Great job to all..! :righton:


----------



## Richierich

Well, Hutch, I may have some bad news in the short run situation. I called Directv to Activate my newly acquired HR23-700 and after they did that I asked if he knew about any specific HD channels coming (thinking he was going to say No) and he said that Yes there were 6 HD Channels coming and one was MSNBC, one was ESPNU and I can't remember that the other ones were but they were not ones I normally would watch.

I asked about The Travel Channel in HD and he said it was not on the List so I guess we will have to wait for D12 unless it is because of Negotiations.

Take this with a Grain of Salt but he was reading from a List he had just acquired so normally they receive info when something is 2 to 3 weeks out.


----------



## Christopher Gould

i have a dumb question. is there any loss of picture quality using mrv instead of straight out of the oringal box


----------



## Richierich

I don't think there will be. It is just Streaming Data.


----------



## Sixto

Hmmm ... guess I stumbled into the extra fees complaint thread ... 

I need to go find the MRV is cool thread, where everyone talks about the next cool feature that will soon be available as an option to all ...

It really is a nice feature. Family loves it.


----------



## Richierich

I think it is the Single Greatest Feature that Directv has given us as an additional Service or Function and the First Look looks great and is Very Informative.

I will gladly pay for it!!!:lol:


----------



## Sixto

richierich said:


> I think it is the Single Greatest Feature that Directv has given us as an additional Service or Function and the First Look looks great and is Very Informative.
> 
> I will gladly pay for it!!!:lol:


+1.

It's nice to walk into the Kitchen and use the H21 to watch a recording from anywhere in the home.

The kids love having access from their bedroom H21's to watch their recordings from the family room.

Everyone loves being able to schedule a recording from an H21 to any HR2x in the home.

Very convenient to record to multiple DVR's but watch every recording from the one receiver hooked to the best TV.

And the list goes on and on ...

Lunch today cost $6 ...

MRV for a month probably will cost less.

Great feature.


----------



## Richierich

Also, I perform maintenance from my Slingbox in my Office at home or on one of my 2 DVRs in my Den and that is worth it right there not to mention watching anything anywhere in my house on 6 different DVRs.

Hey, that is just one less Bottle of Gewurztraminer Wine per month and I can handle that!!! :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

I don't think anybody doesn't think MRV is a nice feature, it's just about the marketing that has some upset.


----------



## Sixto

richierich said:


> Also, I perform maintenance from my Slingbox in my Office at home or on one of my 2 DVRs in my Den and that is worth it right there not to mention watching anything anywhere in my house on 6 different DVRs.
> 
> Hey, that is just one less Bottle of Gewurztraminer Wine per month and I can handle that!!! :lol:


Yep, have done that, sit at one receiver and you can perform maintenance on any DVR in the home, delete away!

While also using the H21 to schedule recordings anywhere.


----------



## OptimusPrime

Rakul said:


> Well if the fee is a couple bucks a month if nothing else I might drop one of my HR's the only reason I have them is conflicts, if I can save five bucks a month it might more than pay for the MRV.


Hmmn. Interesting idea. Is it possible to "deactivate" a receiver for the purpose of no longer receiving live broadcasts, no longer being able to record programming...but still using it for networking purposed (MRV) if there are still recordings on it?


----------



## Sixto

Yep, unfortunately, sometimes (many times) nice=$. 

It is what it is.

Would love free, but if not, will pay, move on, and love the feature.


----------



## veryoldschool

OptimusPrime said:


> Hmmn. Interesting idea. Is it possible to "deactivate" a receiver for the purpose of no longer receiving live broadcasts, no longer being able to record programming...but still using it for networking purposed (MRV) if there are still recordings on it?


You'll run into the authorization problem.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I think the First Look will be a Great Asset for those not very familiar with MRV and Stuart and company did a Great Job!!! :hurah:


----------



## Doug Brott

OptimusPrime said:


> Hmmn. Interesting idea. Is it possible to "deactivate" a receiver for the purpose of no longer receiving live broadcasts, no longer being able to record programming...but still using it for networking purposed (MRV) if there are still recordings on it?


The only reason you would want to disconnect a receiver or DVR is if you no longer have a need for it in a particular location. It will be unusable once it is deactivated.


----------



## BubblePuppy

Doug Brott said:


> The only reason you would want to disconnect a receiver or DVR is if you no longer have a need for it in a particular location. It will be unusable once it is deactivated.


And wouldn't DirecTV want it back?


----------



## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> And wouldn't DirecTV want it back?


If it is leased, yes .. Owned, no.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

Hutchinshouse said:


> As you know, I'm not a big fan of extra fees. :lol: Plus, believe it or not, I'm not negative all the time.  Maybe once I get my channel (in HD) I'll be perpetually happy. I may even become a fanboy. On that note, I personally think the first look pdf is sweet! Great job to all..! :righton:


Will the new fee replace the mirroring / rent fee in the new sever / mini box system?

Does the planed fee tie into that?


----------



## Doug Brott

JoeTheDragon said:


> Will the new fee replace the mirroring / rent fee in the new sever / mini box system?
> 
> Does the planed fee tie into that?


Just to be clear, any MRV charge that is levied will be in addition to any other charges that you have been paying. You can avoid the MRV fee by simply not having Multi-Room Viewing available in your house. If you do that, you will have the same level of service that you already have. MRV is adding a capability to watch a program in another room on another Set Top Box. If you find that to be a value and you want to take MRV, then you will have to pay a fee. If you're OK with walking into the room where the program is recorded, then you don't have to take MRV and you will not be charged anything above what you would normally pay.


----------



## mluntz

OK, I'm confused. I do not have a SWM system, but I have my recievers networked with ethernet cable. Will this work for MRV, or do I have to convert to a SWM sytem and DECA?

Sorry if I lost my mind somewhere earlier in the thread.


----------



## Sixto

mluntz said:


> OK, I'm confused. I do not have a SWM system, but I have my recievers networked with ethernet cable. Will this work for MRV, or do I have to convert to a SWM sytem and DECA?
> 
> Sorry if I lost my mind somewhere earlier in the thread.


MRV will work just fine. The receivers just need to be networked. Have fun.


----------



## dpeters11

mluntz said:


> OK, I'm confused. I do not have a SWM system, but I have my recievers networked with ethernet cable. Will this work for MRV, or do I have to convert to a SWM sytem and DECA?
> 
> Sorry if I lost my mind somewhere earlier in the thread.


The main thing is that it won't be supported if you have trouble and call DirecTV. You'll have to come here for help. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## Richierich

Sixto said:


> MRV will work just fine. The receivers just need to be networked. Have fun.


And you have to Opt-In in the MultiRoom Area after Selecting Beta.


----------



## BubblePuppy

mluntz said:


> OK, I'm confused. I do not have a SWM system, but I have my recievers networked with ethernet cable. Will this work for MRV, or do I have to convert to a SWM sytem and DECA?
> 
> Sorry if I lost my mind somewhere earlier in the thread.


This may not be what mluntz is asking but....
When MRV goes fee based. Will all the SWiM/DECA gizmo's be supplied and installed by DirecTV free, leased fee or what? Since I am willing to pay the MRV fee I am curious...If the lease fee is very high then bye bye MRV, I probably wont be able to spring the bucks at the time.


----------



## joed32

BubblePuppy said:


> This may not be what mluntz is asking but....
> When MRV goes fee based. Will all the SWiM/DECA gizmo's be supplied and installed by DirecTV free, leased fee or what? Since I am willing to pay the MRV fee I am curious...If the lease fee is very high then bye bye MRV, I probably wont be able to spring the bucks at the time.


If it works just fine over my present network why would I want to switch to their new system? Been networked with Cat 5 cables for a while with no support. For subs who don't want to do it themselves it would make sense to use their solution.


----------



## steveken

joed32 said:


> If it works just fine over my present network why would I want to switch to their new system? Been networked with Cat 5 cables for a while with no support. For subs who don't want to do it themselves it would make sense to use their solution.


Well, it just depends on what you are doing with your network really. You don't want a whole lot of traffic across it to interfere with anyone else trying to do other stuff like access the Internet. You would be surprised what problems can arise out of a seemingly low usage item on your network. You will just have to wait and see if it will work or not and if it will interfere with anything or not. The DECA equipment is just for people who DON'T have networks or who don't want to have all the traffic from MRV running across their wires.


----------



## BubblePuppy

joed32 said:


> *If it works just fine over my present network why would I want to switch to their new system? *Been networked with Cat 5 cables for a while with no support. For subs who don't want to do it themselves it would make sense to use their solution.


Because I predict that that will be the only way to get MRV in the future. It's just a guess on my part, though.


----------



## steveken

BubblePuppy said:


> Because I predict that that will be the only way to get MRV in the future. It's just a guess on my part, though.


Have you read anything on the DECA system? All it is is a box that changes the bits from the network jack on the DVR into something that can travel along the coax line. Other than that, its the same exact thing as a regular network. Thus, there isn't a way to make it ONLY work with the DECA equipment.


----------



## Doug Brott

Since folks are wondering about the various networking options, here's a list that might be helpful.

*DIRECTV Ethernet over Coax Adapter (DECA)* (Recommended)
This solution is fully supported. It doesn't touch a router/switch for MRV. With an added broadband DECA connection, you can still connect to the Internet for accessing VOD and TVApps

*Wired Connection (Ethernet)*
This is the preferred choice for users that have a port close to the STB and only want to enable VOD and TVApps. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV.

*Wireless adaptor*
A good choice for quick installation when an Ethernet port is not close to the STB and when only VOD and TVApps are needed. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV.

*Powerline Adaptor*
An OK choice for VOD and TVApps. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV. The Powerline Adapter is being phased out in favor of the Wireless Adapter.

--

At this point DIRECTV does not recommend MRV through a router/switch. DIRECTV may provide a list of qualified routers/switches in the future, but there is no information available at this time.


----------



## BubblePuppy

steveken said:


> Have you read anything on the DECA system? All it is is a box that changes the bits from the network jack on the DVR into something that can travel along the coax line. Other than that, its the same exact thing as a regular network. *Thus, there isn't a way to make it ONLY work with the DECA equipment.*


Unless there is some id# that DirecTV can add to the account authorizing MRV activation. Some what like the id# on the receivers, or how Premium channels are authorized on the account. Like I wrote, it is just a guess on my part but if a fee is going to be required to have MRV then DirecTV will need a way to control it. (need a "I'm just pulling this outa my a** simile).


----------



## barryb

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think anybody doesn't think MRV is a nice feature, it's just about the marketing that has some upset.


I have not seen any solid "marketing" yet. We do know there will be a cost, but the question is... how much? I personally have been staying out of all of this as I don't have the facts yet, and with that:

MRV is an outstanding idea, and what I consider the single biggest feature to come to my DirecTV receivers since High Definition became available.

For me to be able to have something similar to a "whole house" solution brings a big smile to my face.

I rewired my entire house two years ago. Put in cable/ethernet/everything. I put phone lines where I don't need them, dual cables where a SWM would have taken only one. I spent a great deal of time dialing in something that I knew would be overkill. When DECA/SWM becomes common place I will switch over to that as well, and those places where I have two cables can then get dual receivers. PiP and split screen on my living room TV would be a godsend to my sports friends.

I love the idea of having a few "big" boxes racked up in my garage, with "H" type boxes in key areas of my house.

For me this is a feature who's time has come.


----------



## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> Unless there is some id# that DirecTV can add to the account authorizing MRV activation. Some what like the id# on the receivers, or how Premium channels are authorized on the account. Like I wrote, it is just a guess on my part but if a fee is going to be required to have MRV then DirecTV will need a way to control it. (need a "I'm just pulling this outa my a** simile).


non-DECA installations will work in many cases .. If it works for you, then you don't HAVE to get DECA. DIRECTV will provide support for the DECA solution. MRV will be enabled at the software level, so both Ethernet and DECA will work. The Quality of the connection is dependent on any equipment in the chain.


----------



## barryb

For all involved: GREAT job on this first look, as always.


----------



## steveken

Doug Brott said:


> Since folks are wondering about the various networking options, here's a list that might be helpful.
> 
> *DIRECTV Ethernet over Coax Adapter (DECA)* (Recommended)
> This solution is fully supported. It doesn't touch a router/switch for MRV. With an added broadband DECA connection, you can still connect to the Internet for accessing VOD and TVApps
> 
> *Wired Connection (Ethernet)*
> This is the preferred choice for users that have a port close to the STB and only want to enable VOD and TVApps. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV.
> 
> *Wireless adaptor*
> A good choice for quick installation when an Ethernet port is not close to the STB and when only VOD and TVApps are needed. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV.
> 
> *Powerline Adaptor*
> An OK choice for VOD and TVApps. Since it requires a router/switch DIRECTV will not support or recommend it for MRV. The Powerline Adapter is being phased out in favor of the Wireless Adapter.
> 
> --
> 
> At this point DIRECTV does not recommend MRV through a router/switch. DIRECTV may provide a list of qualified routers/switches in the future, but there is no information available at this time.


Now, I will admit I have not been able to use MRV, but if it works like any other network attached device in that it sends bits down a wire to another device, then I do understand it.

The reason they won't support a setup with a router/switch is because of the problems that can arise out of running your own network. Is that a fair statement? That way they don't have to staff people knowledgeable in networking and the associated technologies, correct?

I don't think that it can be nearly as hard as getting printer sharing across a network on Windows computers, or even file sharing sometimes, but then again, the router or switch could really hose up the whole shebang if something should happen to them. That's why they don't want to get into the whole "Oh yeah, use your own network" bit.  What should be said is "ALL types of network connectivity will work to deliver MRV to various receivers. However, if you are using non-DirecTV equipment in your setup, we obviously cannot support any of that if something should happen. There are too many companies making too many different types of networking equipment with different levels of quality control and each with their own different types of problems to support each and every one of them. If there is a problem with any non-DirecTV equipment, we recommend contacting the vendor directly. The only items under the DirecTV support structure are the DirecTV branded equipment and software put out by DirecTV directly."

Now, if anyone here has any SWM and MRV compatible equipment that they aren't using any more and would like to get rid of it, please let me know. All I need is another HD DVR or an HD receiver higher than the H20 I have right now. Maybe if I can find someone to help me out with that, I can get in on this MRV testing and further understand what might be going on.  Which reminds me, why isn't there an area on here for the buying or selling of DirecTV equipment? I don't trust eBay very much. Doesn't DirecTV allow you to do things like transferring equipment you don't use anymore to another sub?


----------



## veryoldschool

steveken said:


> Which reminds me, why isn't there an area on here for the buying or selling of DirecTV equipment? I don't trust eBay very much. Doesn't DirecTV allow you to do things like transferring equipment you don't use anymore to another sub?


The simplest answer is most are leased and can't be resold.


----------



## morphy

Quick question that is somewhat MRV related. I have cat-5 run pretty much everywhere in my house. I'm planning to add connectivity to another room for television and data. So I would like to just run cat-5 to that room since I'm pulling through walls and it gets difficult with the more cabling I pull through.

So my question is, can you run a H21-style receiver just as an MRV client without any coax connectivity? Obviously I could connect it temporarily to a coax connection to get it activated, but after that would it have problems downloading new code versions, or even coming up correctly? It sure would be nice to run any more coax to a room off to the side that I'm probably going to end up pulling out in 2-3 years any ways when I'm fully on Media Center or some alternative.


----------



## Doug Brott

steveken said:


> The reason they won't support a setup with a router/switch is because of the problems that can arise out of running your own network. Is that a fair statement? That way they don't have to staff people knowledgeable in networking and the associated technologies, correct?


The problem is that not all routers or switches actually stream continuously at the data rate that they say they support. A "Gig" switch for example may simply mean that it can get up to a "Gig" but not that it can run that constantly. While it's not the end-all statement, a $5 switch is probably not going to perform as well as a $500 switch even if both say "Gig."

DIRECTV cannot control what you buy .. I do think that they are going to qualify some routers and switches, so there may be hope .. but at this point in time, the only thing that is truly qualified is DECA. When it's ready, if DIRECTV does the installation, it will be DECA.

From the numbers that I have seen, DECA seems to scale very well such that each "new" MRV stream gets a full allotment of bandwidth at sustained data rates. Will that hold up to the theoretical maximum? I don't know about that as theoretically you could have 16 MRV streams on a single DECA cloud (16 Single-Tuner DVRs connected and cross-watching remotely) .. But certainly up to 5 or 6 streams DECA scales well.


----------



## veryoldschool

morphy said:


> So my question is, can you run a H21-style receiver just as an MRV client without any coax connectivity?


"Quick answer" no, it needs authorization each time it tries to play the recording.


----------



## Doug Brott

morphy said:


> So my question is, can you run a H21-style receiver just as an MRV client without any coax connectivity?


No, this will not work, you need one Coax connection ..


----------



## joed32

My wired network with VOD and MRV doesn't affect my net surfing or anything else. Runs through a switch connected to the router, I don't see the problem.


----------



## Doug Brott

joed32 said:


> My wired network with VOD and MRV doesn't affect my net surfing or anything else. Runs through a switch connected to the router, I don't see the problem.


So, for you "it works." This may not be the case in every home networking situation.


----------



## mikeny

Doug Brott said:


> non-DECA installations will work in many cases .. If it works for you, then you don't HAVE to get DECA. DIRECTV will provide support for the DECA solution. MRV will be enabled at the software level, so both Ethernet and DECA will work. The Quality of the connection is dependent on any equipment in the chain.


That's great news. It's also nice that at least DECA installs will be supported. It is a little ironic though, that even DECA, unless I don't understand it correctly, still requires a connection to _your_ router.


----------



## veryoldschool

mikeny said:


> That's great news. It's also nice that at least DECA installs will be supported. It is a little ironic though, that even DECA, unless I don't understand it correctly, still requires a connection to *your router*.


 for an internet connection, but not for MRV.


----------



## RAD

mikeny said:


> That's great news. It's also nice that at least DECA installs will be supported. It is a little ironic though, that even DECA, unless I don't understand it correctly, still requires a connection to _your_ router.


DECA configs only require the router connection so the STB's on the DECA cloud can access internet functions like DirecTV on Demand, Media Share or TVApps, if you don't need/want access to that it doesn't need a router connection.


----------



## Doug Brott

RAD said:


> DECA configs only require the router connection so the STB's on the DECA cloud can access internet functions like DirecTV on Demand, Media Share or TVApps, if you don't need/want access to that it doesn't need a router connection.


Correct, if you are MRV only with respect to any networking, then you do not need a connection to the router at all. And as VOS noted, even if you do have a connection to the router, the MRV traffic will stay 100% on the DECA cloud without passing through the router.


----------



## steveken

joed32 said:


> My wired network with VOD and MRV doesn't affect my net surfing or anything else. Runs through a switch connected to the router, I don't see the problem.


Well, the only reason I brought that up is sometimes even the simplest things can screw the whole kebosh up. For instance, my brother-in-law was over here playing MW2 multiplayer on my PS3 over the wireless in it. Well, I tried to fire up my 360 that is hard wired to the network and get online with it. For some reason, the PS3 was pumping out so much data that the 360 was having one hell of a time connecting to XBOX Live and I wasn't able to get onto Live until I turned off the wireless in the router (Belkin N+, btw). Now, I don't know how much data that game pumps out when playing multiplayer, or how many people were in his match, or how much data the 360 requires to be able to get connected to Live, but I do know that it was enough to stifle my 360's connection to Live. I have been doing networking for years now and know how to set it up right, so I know it wasn't my installation. I think it was just a weird fluke. Anyway, thats the only reason I brought that particular instance up.


----------



## mikeny

RAD said:


> DECA configs only require the router connection so the STB's on the DECA cloud can access internet functions like DirecTV on Demand, Media Share or TVApps, if you don't need/want access to that it doesn't need a router connection.





Doug Brott said:


> Correct, if you are MRV only with respect to any networking, then you do not need a connection to the router at all. And as VOS noted, even if you do have a connection to the router, the MRV traffic will stay 100% on the DECA cloud without passing through the router.


Thanks for that clarification. Interesting.


----------



## dhines

first, so does the pricing of MRV mean that D* is going to cancel their current E* bashing commercial where they talk about all the misc dish fees?



ok, now the serious stuff.

facts about my internet connection
- access is via at&t uverse. meaning, it is a wireless / hard wired router / modem.
- i have ethernet connections running to each of my HD DVR's
- my HD DVR's are located in 4 different bedrooms and in the livingroom
- my connections to the HD DVR's are all hooked into one linksys switch
- the exception is my livingroom where i have an ethernet cable running from the initial switch, then hooking into another linksys switch
- the additional switch in the livingroom then has ethernet runs to the 3 different HD DVR's
- maybe i should say, in the livingroom i have purchased the extra switch, but not actaully installed it
- currently my ethernet run to the livingroom hooks into one of the three HD DVR's
- i ran ethernet connections through a single switch (and not directly off the router) so as to prevent performance issues from impacting my wireless network and my computer directly hooked into the router / modem.

ok, so now for the questions . . . 
1) will the HD DVR's be able to see each other through the various switches? my assumption is yes
2) if i used an ethernet instead of a switch, would it complicate the HD DVR's ability to 'see' each other? my assumption is yes
3) is there a performance difference between using a switch and a router? i assumed a router would be slower
4) was i correct in assuming that not hooking directly into the modem / router would prevent the MVR traffic from slowing down my wireless network, computer connected directly to the router, etc?

many thanks in advance.


----------



## RAD

dhines said:


> ok, so now for the questions . . .
> 1) will the HD DVR's be able to see each other through the various switches? my assumption is yes


Yes you will be able to. On my network each room has a switch in it that connects back to a central switch. So between my STB's there can be three switches between them and they see each other, no problems.



dhines said:


> 2) if i used an ethernet instead of a switch, would it complicate the HD DVR's ability to 'see' each other? my assumption is yes


Sorry, don't understand your question, a switch is used to connect ethernet connected devices together.



dhines said:


> 3) is there a performance difference between using a switch and a router?


Normally a consumer router that has multiple ports on it for connecting networked devices has a built in switch, the router part of the box only gets involved if the traffic needs to get routed out to another network. The answer to your question is it's a depends on how good the switch in your router performs, may be OK, may not.



dhines said:


> 4) was i correct in assuming that this would prevent the MVR traffic from slowing down my wireless network?
> 
> many thanks in advance.


Goes back to how well your route/switch performs, if that's not a choke point then you should be OK on the wireless network since the switch would keep traffic off your wireless network, except for the broadcast packets that the receivers/DVR's put out.


----------



## dhines

RAD said:


> Sorry, don't understand your question, a switch is used to connect ethernet connected devices together.


meant to say router . . .

btw, thanks for taking time to respond.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

So will one of those USB wireless b/g adapters work with this?


----------



## LameLefty

scottandregan said:


> So will one of those USB wireless b/g adapters work with this?


Possibly - 802.11g theoretically has enough bandwidth to stream at least one HD stream, but remember, ALL the wireless devices in your home share that bandwidth. Also, if you have any interference from other 2.4ghz signals (cordless phones or other nearby WLANs) or electronic interference from a microwave oven or a vacuum cleaner or whatnot), your signal will degrade. 802.11n tends to work much better, again depending on your home environment and how many devices are sharing the bandwidth.


----------



## veryoldschool

LameLefty said:


> Possibly - 802.11g theoretically has enough bandwidth to stream at least one HD stream, but remember, ALL the wireless devices in your home share that bandwidth. Also, if you have any interference from other 2.4ghz signals (cordless phones or other nearby WLANs) or electronic interference from a microwave oven or a vacuum cleaner or whatnot), your signal will degrade. 802.11n tends to work much better, again depending on your home environment and how many devices are sharing the bandwidth.


"But" does any USB adapter work with the H/HR2x?


----------



## LameLefty

veryoldschool said:


> "But" does any USB adapter work with the H/HR2x?


Ah, missed the USB part of it. Nope, VOS is right.

An 802.11g ETHERNET adapter might work, but not a USB-based one. :sure:


----------



## 2dogz

Doug Brott said:


> Correct, if you are MRV only with respect to any networking, then you do not need a connection to the router at all. And as VOS noted, even if you do have a connection to the router, the MRV traffic will stay 100% on the DECA cloud without passing through the router.


Don't forget that without a connection to the router you give up the the dhcp server to manage ip address allocation. Manual configuration may be simple for you and I, but the vast unwashed masses will be scratching their heads trying to come up with a subnet mask. Suppose someone could come up with a paint by numbers crib sheet though.


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## Doug Brott

2dogz said:


> Don't forget that without a connection to the router you give up the the dhcp server to manage ip address allocation. Manual configuration may be simple for you and I, but the vast unwashed masses will be scratching their heads trying to come up with a subnet mask. Suppose someone could come up with a paint by numbers crib sheet though.


Ah, but you don't need DHCP .. Each STB will find a unique IP address on it's own and they will talk just fine. Literally NOTHING to configure, not even a DHCP server. Just plug and play.


----------



## 2dogz

Doug Brott said:


> Ah, but you don't need DHCP .. Each STB will find a unique IP address on it's own and they will talk just fine. Literally NOTHING to configure, not even a DHCP server. Just plug and play.


Interesting. First I heard of this. Will have to play with it when I get upgraded.


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## Doug Brott

2dogz said:


> Interesting. First I heard of this. Will have to play with it when I get upgraded.


This is, of course, when only the STBs are on the network (DECA without router/DHCP connection). The STBs will choose a standard 169.254 address that PCs choose when no DHCP service is available.


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## dbmaven

I'm a little disconcerted by the semi-announcement by DirecTV that at some point in the future they'll start charging for the privilege of using MRV. Software development is a one-time expense - once the core functionality is there, maintenance is minimal (unless bugs are discovered and/or the functionality is expanded upon - but that becomes new development work). Considering the incredible base of "free" alpha-testing that they get from places like DBSTalk - which reduces their testing expenses by orders of magnitude - I'm trying to understand the rationale for this new "fee".

I like the functionality a lot, and it goes a long way towards making the promise of a "whole home media center" a reality - but charging for it on top of the rest of the monthly fees? Wow. Just. Wow.


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## Doug Brott

DIRECTV obviously feels that people will pay for MRV and as a result has decided to charge for it. You will have to decide for yourself if you'd rather path the fee or live without MRV. I suspect there will be a lot of takers for each path.


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## JeffBowser

Amazing to me how people think software development, maintenance, and support is such a trivial thing. That's my business folks, and it is not trivial, nor are its costs. Like or dislike DirecTV's pricing policies, software is not a trivial afterthought, before, during, or after development.


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## pappy97

LameLefty said:


> Possibly - 802.11g theoretically has enough bandwidth to stream at least one HD stream, but remember, ALL the wireless devices in your home share that bandwidth. Also, if you have any interference from other 2.4ghz signals (cordless phones or other nearby WLANs) or electronic interference from a microwave oven or a vacuum cleaner or whatnot), your signal will degrade. 802.11n tends to work much better, again depending on your home environment and how many devices are sharing the bandwidth.


That's why you should do what I do: 802.11n on 5Ghz. No interference whatsoever.

(As an aside, I get really ticked off that all 802.11n is NOT on 5 Ghz. Bought a blu-ray player with a built in n wireless adaptor, only to find out that it's on 2.4 Ghz so I had to connect it to a 802.11n 5 Ghz wireless bridge).


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## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV obviously feels that people will pay for MRV and as a result has decided to charge for it. You will have to decide for yourself if you'd rather path the fee or live without MRV. I suspect there will be a lot of takers for each path.


Directv has given us alot of Freebies some of which I use and some I don't but the Bottom Line is that you get a ton of Functionality out of this Service versus some of the others and I couldn't live without it. It was proposed over 5 years ago and I thought at the time "What a Cool Feature that would be." and now it is here.

So I for one will gladly pay for it because it Frees you up to Watch Anything You Have Recorded Anywhere you have a DVR or Receiver along with being able to perform maintenance functions on all of your DVRs from just one place. It is definitely worth it to me but probably not for everyone.


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## Rob Dawn

Just slightly off topic: how long has SWiM been around?
My mutiswitch was installed in August of '05 so I figured it would not be SWiM.
But, to my surprise, when I press - on my HR20, it says SWiM connected.
My mutiswitch (Zinwell WB68) does not say SWiM on it anywhere but I did notice that it does not have an antenna input on it, and if I understand SWiM correctly, it can not handle merged OTA signals.

If the upgrade price for another HR2x and all the DECA equipment is reasonable (along with the monthly MRV rate), I plan to do this upgrade as soon as MRV is out of Beta; so I wanted to make sure I truly had SWiM so I could be as informed as possible when calling DirecTV for the upgrade ('cause lord knows many of their resp are not very informed!).


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## veryoldschool

Rob Dawn said:


> Just slightly off topic: how long has SWiM been around?
> My mutiswitch was installed in August of '05 so I figured it would not be SWiM.
> But, to my surprise, when I press - on my HR20, it says SWiM connected.
> My mutiswitch (Zinwell WB68) does not say SWiM on it anywhere but I did notice that it does not have an antenna input on it, and if I understand SWiM correctly, it can not handle merged OTA signals.
> 
> If the upgrade price for another HR2x and all the DECA equipment is reasonable (along with the monthly MRV rate), I plan to do this upgrade as soon as MRV is out of Beta; so I wanted to make sure I truly had SWiM so I could be as informed as possible when calling DirecTV for the upgrade ('cause lord knows many of their resp are not very informed!).


You're seeing a software bug.
Zinwell is the non SWM switch.
First sight of SWM was in the fall of '07.
If you have two coax going into your DVR, it isn't SWiM.


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## dhines

JeffBowser said:


> Amazing to me how people think software development, maintenance, and support is such a trivial thing. That's my business folks, and it is not trivial, nor are its costs. Like or dislike DirecTV's pricing policies, software is not a trivial afterthought, before, during, or after development.


i don't think that anyone is saying that software development is a trivial thing (i too am an IT professional), but i think peoples point is . . . everyone else is bundling this functionality with the DVR service cost.

IMHO, i feel like i am being double charged . . . as MRV'ing should be a function of the DVR.

i think D* is floating a balloon on this, and seeing what the competition does. either E* and at&t are going to follow suit and charge for this service (allowing D* to charge for it), or E* and at&t won't and D* will have to somehow bundle it into the DVR cost or one of the packages.


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## Doug Brott

dhines said:


> i don't think that anyone is saying that software development is a trivial thing (i too am an IT professional), but i think peoples point is . . . everyone else is bundling this functionality with the DVR service cost.


Yup, so in this case DIRECTV does go ala carte and it's a problem. For those people that don't want MRV .. guess what, they don't have to pay for it. For those that do want MRV .. a small fee and they're in.

If this were added to the DVR fee, then every DVR customer would be paying for MRV and a different class of customer would be complaining.


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## Gocanes

Doug Brott said:


> Yup, so in this case DIRECTV does go ala carte and it's a problem. For those people that don't want MRV .. guess what, they don't have to pay for it. For those that do want MRV .. a small fee and they're in.
> 
> If this were added to the DVR fee, then every DVR customer would be paying for MRV and a different class of customer would be complaining.


I was just going to post this same thing. At first I was upset that MRV would have a separate charge but then I realized that having it "included" in the DVR fee would mean the DVR fee would just go up anyway. By making it a separate charge they let each customer decide if the service is worth the cost. I'll wait and see what the charge is and decide. $2.99 and below I'll definitely get it, $3.00 - $5.99 I'll think about it and over $6.00 I'll most likely pass.


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## RobertE

I'm hearing that the free beta is going to be roughly 3 months. No word on the monthly charge.


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## Doug Brott

RobertE said:


> I'm hearing that the free beta is going to be roughly 3 months. No word on the monthly charge.


The timing is inline with my projections .. I'm not sure pricing has actually been decided yet which may be why we don't have a number. My hope is $2.99/month per account, but that's just a SWAG.


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## joed32

I'm using it and it's great but I have all DVRs so I'm thinking about getting a non DVR to replace one of them so that I can tell each DVR what to record from a central location. You can't do that with all DVRs.


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## TBlazer07

joed32 said:


> I'm using it and it's great but I have all DVRs so I'm thinking about getting a non DVR to replace one of them so that I can tell each DVR what to record from a central location. You can't do that with all DVRs.


 I wouldn't make that change until it is decided for sure the dvr->dvr MRV will or will not have that feature. Just because it doesn't exist in an early first release of MRV doesn't mean it won't in a future release. No one knows but I'd like to HOPE that if a receiver can do it a DVR will as well in the future. The other tuners and extra recording space make the DVR a better deal .... plus you'd get another 2 year commitment extension if you get another receiver.


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## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> The timing is inline with my projections .. I'm not sure pricing has actually been decided yet which may be why we don't have a number. My hope is $2.99/month per account, but that's just a SWAG.


Hope you are right on all counts.

I suspect they'll fine tune things a bit before starting to charge.


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## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> ...My hope is $2.99/month per account, but that's just a SWAG.


My hope is if they charge for MRV, the unsupported version will have a lower fee than the supported version.

I still believe if you do not plan to support it, don't charge for it. If people call for support, tell them they need to upgrade the switch/connection and pay a monthly fee to get the support.

I also agree that if they do plan to charge for the service, make the service more robust, allow scheduling/playback from all DVRs/STBs and from remote sites whether Internet or smart phones.


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## dave29

jacmyoung said:


> My hope is if they charge for MRV, the unsupported version will have a lower fee than the supported version.
> 
> I still believe if you do not plan to support it, don't charge for it. If people call for support, tell them they need to upgrade the switch/connection and pay a monthly fee to get the support.


That just sounds like too many scenarios, I believe there will be just one set monthly fee, whether it is hooked up via DECA or your network. (IMO)


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## OptimusPrime

jacmyoung said:


> I still believe if you do not plan to support it, don't charge for it. If people call for support, tell them they need to upgrade the switch/connection and pay a monthly fee to get the support.


100% agree.


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## BubblePuppy

dave29 said:


> That just sounds like too many scenarios, I believe there will be just one set monthly fee, whether it is hooked up via DECA or your network. (IMO)


The problem is that DirecTV will not offer customer support for DYI home networking. If those people have to pay the fee then there will be expectations for support. The number of phone calls, and complaints will be enormous. The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems. 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## dave29

BubblePuppy said:


> The problem is that DirecTV will not offer customer support for DYI home networking. If those people have to pay the fee then there will be expectations for support. The number of phone calls, and complaints will be enormous. The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems.
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


Well then, the self networked guys will have to upgrade to DECA if they want it supported then, or leave it "self networked" and have no support. :shrug:

I guess we'll know more in the coming months.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> The problem is that DirecTV will not offer customer support for DYI home networking. If those people have to pay the fee then there will be expectations for support. The number of phone calls, and complaints will be enormous. The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems.
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.





dave29 said:


> Well then, the self networked guys will have to upgrade to DECA if they want it supported then, or leave it "self networked" and have no support. :shrug:
> 
> I guess we'll know more in the coming months.


"Maybe" part of the Beta release is for marketing to figure out how/what they're going to do.
I think the engineering end is there or very soon will be, and the marketing department is so far behind that I can't post my true feelings on this forum.


----------



## joed32

TBlazer07 said:


> I wouldn't make that change until it is decided for sure the dvr->dvr MRV will or will not have that feature. Just because it doesn't exist in an early first release of MRV doesn't mean it won't in a future release. No one knows but I'd like to HOPE that if a receiver can do it a DVR will as well in the future. The other tuners and extra recording space make the DVR a better deal .... plus you'd get another 2 year commitment extension if you get another receiver.


Thanks for the info, I'll wait for a while to see what happens, I have 5 DVRs and do a lot of recording. Don't care about the commitment though, I'm a lifer.


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> "Maybe" part of the Beta release is for marketing to figure out how/what they're going to do.
> I think the engineering end is there or very soon will be, and the marketing department is so far behind that I can't post my true feelings on this forum.


I suspect you are correct.


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## jacmyoung

BubblePuppy said:


> ...The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems...


If so the roll out of MRV will be seriously undermined and costly.

If you already have a network, I won't really call it a DIY project, because most networks are installed by their broadband providers, the DirecTV MRV will be a plug and play deal, in fact if people are already using their broadband services for DirecTV VOD, most likely it will just be a play deal, no plug needed.

The DirecTV VOD feature does not cost a fee, also there is no support from DirecTV if you have broadband issues when using VOD. To me MRV on existing broadband networks is no different.


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## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:


> If so the roll out of MRV will be seriously undermined and costly.


Not so...

As of last fall, DirecTV began using SWM switches as their common install standard for homes for customers with 2 or more DVRs. In some cases, they simply use it for 2 HD devices period. Every week, there are more and more folks out there with SWM units installed.

The cost of installing using SWM is actually less than previous technologies, as it requires only 1 coax run to an HD DVR to power 2 tuners, whole costing about the same as the old Zinwell multiwitches to manufacture. Many other folks have even gone out and bought there own. In any case, a lower cost for installation.

As for networking going forward, we also read here at DBSTalk (see the First Look) about the DirecTV plans for DECA technology, which supports reliable and higher-speed network connectivity within the whole-home framework. Like SWM....mainstream production and distribution of that technology will provide low-cost installation.

Therefore, with SWM now the "standard" and at a decreased cost of installation, and with DECA likely not far away - the framework for them to provide a cost effective whole-home network-connected solution of existing HD DVRs is pretty much in place.

The ability to deliver a cost-effective and reliable solution (one which stabilizes and even reduces install costs on a mass scale basis) is what has been driving all this new technology for years.

Last....there are folks who are operating MRV on an existing network framework already, adding NO cost.

So MRV *can be *rolled out gradually, *with cost-effective ways *to deliver it to those who have the need and equipment to use this new capability.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> The DirecTV VOD feature does not cost a fee, also there is no support from DirecTV if you have broadband issues when using VOD. To me MRV on existing broadband networks is no different.


VOD is revenue generating already via downloaded PPVs. DIRECTV feels they can charge for MRV, so they are. If you don't want to pay, the don't. You have that option. There are other non-integrated ways to obtain MRV.

There are additional costs with supporting MRV whether we like it or not. This will be true even if no one that frequents DBSTalk signs up for this (at least one will be signing up assuming the costs are nominal). DIRECTV has chosen to charge to offset that cost.


----------



## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> The problem is that DirecTV will not offer customer support for DYI home networking. If those people have to pay the fee then there will be expectations for support. The number of phone calls, and complaints will be enormous. The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems.
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


I've said this multiple times already ..

You CAN use your home network for MRV, VOD, etc. You WILL NOT get any networking support from DIRECTV if you do.

If you do use your own home network, then you are on your own in terms of "how it works" for you.


----------



## BubblePuppy

BubblePuppy said:


> *The problem is that DirecTV will not offer customer support for DYI home networking. If those people have to pay the fee then there will be expectations for support.* The number of phone calls, and complaints will be enormous. The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems.
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.





Doug Brott said:


> I've said this multiple times already ..
> 
> You CAN use your home network for MRV, VOD, etc. *You WILL NOT get any networking support from DIRECTV if you do.*
> 
> If you do use your own home network, then you are on your own in terms of "how it works" for you.


That is what I wrote.


----------



## Doug Brott

BubblePuppy said:


> That is what I wrote.


You also wrote: "The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems."

Perhaps you meant: "The only way to avoid this will be to provide MRV *support* only to those that use DirecTVs networking systems."


----------



## jacmyoung

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not so...
> 
> As of last fall, DirecTV began using SWM switches as their common install standard for homes for customers with 2 or more DVRs. In some cases, they simply use it for 2 HD devices period. Every week, there are more and more folks out there with SWM units installed.
> 
> The cost of installing using SWM is actually less than previous technologies, as it requires only 1 coax run to an HD DVR to power 2 tuners, whole costing about the same as the old Zinwell multiwitches to manufacture. Many other folks have even gone out and bought there own. In any case, a lower cost for installation.
> 
> As for networking going forward, we also read here at DBSTalk (see the First Look) about the DirecTV plans for DECA technology, which supports reliable and higher-speed network connectivity within the whole-home framework. Like SWM....mainstream production and distribution of that technology will provide low-cost installation.
> 
> Therefore, with SWM now the "standard" and at a decreased cost of installation, and with DECA likely not far away - the framework for them to provide a cost effective whole-home network-connected solution of existing HD DVRs is pretty much in place.
> 
> The ability to deliver a cost-effective and reliable solution (one which stabilizes and even reduces install costs on a mass scale basis) is what has been driving all this new technology for years.
> 
> Last....there are folks who are operating MRV on an existing network framework already, adding NO cost.
> 
> So MRV *can be *rolled out gradually, *with cost-effective ways *to deliver it to those who have the need and equipment to use this new capability.


You missed my point, we are talking about the existing subs. If I am a new sub, I wouldn't even know the difference, it will just be a matter of checking my service options on my service check list, MRV-$3/mo, check, done.

For existing subs, if SWM upgrade is the only option to get MRV, it will be costly and slow.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> VOD is revenue generating already via downloaded PPVs. DIRECTV feels they can charge for MRV, so they are. If you don't want to pay, the don't. You have that option. There are other non-integrated ways to obtain MRV.
> 
> There are additional costs with supporting MRV whether we like it or not. This will be true even if no one that frequents DBSTalk signs up for this (at least one will be signing up assuming the costs are nominal). DIRECTV has chosen to charge to offset that cost.


VOD by DirecTV is a service to offer an alternative to cable VOD. A lot of the VOD content are free. MRV by DirecTV is also the answer to the MRV services provided by the comptetitors.

I agree with you if the costs are nominal then it is a reasonable deal. I just have this fundamental issue with charging for a service but not supporting it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

jacmyoung said:


> For existing subs, if SWM upgrade is the only option to get MRV, it will be costly and slow.


Based on the cost of manufacturing in mass going forward, I suspect the "investment" would be small. Some folks have already "upgraded" when they added another HD DVR for *free* (the SWM8)....that seems pretty inexpensive and fast.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> VOD by DirecTV is a service to offer an alternative to cable VOD. A lot of the VOD content are free. MRV by DirecTV is also the answer to the MRV services provided by the comptetitors.
> 
> I agree with you if the costs are nominal then it is a reasonable deal. I just have this fundamental issue with charging for a service but not supporting it.


You are not alone .. A lot of people here have voiced this as "a principle" and will refuse to pay on that alone. I do not think the charge is going to be big. I was initially concerned as well, but after about a week of thinking about it I decided 2 things ..

(1) Many, many people will pay for this. If I am DIRECTV, why wouldn't I charge a few dollars if so many people are willing to pay? I really can't fault them for doing what a good business does even if I don't like it.

(2) The charge is going to be one, maybe 2 gallons of gas per month. I had a Sequoia (until recently) and that is about 20 miles for me. So I traded (in my mind) going 20 miles with getting MRV.

So regardless of principle, it is what it is and you can live without and save the fee (it is optional) or you can pay the fee and get MRV. For me, there are certain things to get worked up about and MRV isn't one of them. I'm much more disappointed that ESPN-U is still not in HD although I'm hopeful that it will be in the next few months.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> For existing subs, if SWM upgrade is the only option to get MRV, it will be costly and slow.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on the cost of manufacturing in mass going forward, I suspect the "investment" would be small. Some folks have already "upgraded" when they added another HD DVR for *free* (the SWM8)....that seems pretty inexpensive and fast.


Maybe .. I do think "the package" will be reasonable, but I have no doubt that some people here will find it too expensive.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> You are not alone .. A lot of people here have voiced this as "a principle" and will refuse to pay on that alone. I do not think the charge is going to be big. I was initially concerned as well, but after about a week of thinking about it I decided 2 things ..
> 
> (1) Many, many people will pay for this. If I am DIRECTV, why wouldn't I charge a few dollars if so many people are willing to pay? I really can't fault them for doing what a good business does even if I don't like it.
> 
> (2) The charge is going to be one, maybe 2 gallons of gas per month. I had a Sequoia (until recently) and that is about 20 miles for me. So I traded (in my mind) going 20 miles with getting MRV.
> 
> So regardless of principle, it is what it is and you can live without and save the fee (it is optional) or you can pay the fee and get MRV. For me, there are certain things to get worked up about and MRV isn't one of them. I'm much more disappointed that ESPN-U is still not in HD although I'm hopeful that it will be in the next few months.


Again the issue I have is not a nominal fee, rather no support after charging a fee. If you don't plan to provide support (which I can understand why), then don't charge a fee. My principle is not that a software feature should not cost a fee, although I think if you do charge a fee for a software feature, it will be a good idea to make that feature very rich, not something less than the ones provided by the others without a fee.

My principle issue is not providing support after charging a fee for the service.


----------



## Richierich

Doug Brott said:


> I do not think the charge is going to be big. I was initially concerned as well, but after about a week of thinking about it I decided 2 things ..
> 
> (1) ...
> (2) The charge is going to be one, maybe 2 gallons of gas per month. I had a Sequoia (until recently) and that is about 20 miles for me. So I traded (in my mind) going 20 miles with getting MRV.


Or one less bottle of wine for me a month, Big Deal!!! I can live without the bottle of wine but choose not to live without MRV once I have used it. Worth every penney in my book.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> Again the issue I have is not a nominal fee, rather no support after charging a fee. If you don't plan to provide support (which I can understand why), then don't charge a fee. My principle is not that a software feature should not cost a fee, although I think if you do charge a fee for a software feature, it will be a good idea to make that feature very rich, not something less than the ones provided by the others without a fee.
> 
> My principle issue is not providing support after charging a fee for the service.


This is the way it will be .. Any "support" will be a suggestion that you have DECA installed. The fee will enable MRV. It's up to you whether or not you want to pay for it or not.


----------



## jacmyoung

richierich said:


> Or one less bottle of wine for me a month, Big Deal!!! ...


It will be a big deal if you found out this time your bottle of wine is tinted and you cannot drink that wine, you call the store or the winery, they tell you screw it you bought it you drink it or dump it, you don't have to buy it if you don't like what I tell you.

Will you still buy that wine?


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## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> This is the way it will be .. Any "support" will be a suggestion that you have DECA installed. The fee will enable MRV. It's up to you whether or not you want to pay for it or not.


My contention is if this is the policy, it is a bad poilcy, DirecTV will get a lot of complaints because when people pay a monthly fee for a service, they rightfully expect some support if the service needs support, if you refuse support, it can be an issue. If you do not charge a fee, there is no obligation, you can then suggest the other option of obtaining a supported service.


----------



## Richierich

jacmyoung said:


> It will be a big deal if you found out this time your bottle of wine is tinted and you cannot drink that wine, you call the store or the winery, they tell you screw it you bought it you drink it or dump it, you don't have to buy it if you don't like what I tell you.
> 
> Will you still buy that wine?


No I wouldn't.

However, I thought Directv would charge us a Minimal Fee all along and I never thought it would be Free so it doesn't bother me to pay $2.99 or whatever for the Service because I would pay alot more for it.

I elected to install my Network and my 4 WGA600N Adapters and I never expected Directv to Maintain or Support my Network anymore than I expected them to Support my eSATA External Drive because I knew going in that they had said that they indeed would not Support them.

So, it just boils down to whether I think $2.99 is worth it for me to Enable MRV and support the ongoing Software Maintenance and Future Enhancements. I definitely feel it is worth it and will gladly pay for it even if it means one less bottle of wine.

You can Afford what you Want to Afford. A frugal friend of mine couldn't afford 2 or 3 things for his motorcycle so I bought them for him as a gift.

Then one day I found out that he had bought a $4,600 Graphite Bicycle for getting himself into shape. Unbelievable. He said it would make him go Faster than if he bought a regular $1,800 Bicycle. I told him that if it were for exercise and he wanted to go Faster than he should PEDAL FASTER and that would ensure he would lose extra calories and weight and get in better shape.

Nope, had to have the Expensive Bike to beat others he rode with so he had rationalized why he could spend a ton of money on a bike but he couldn't spend $30 a a Throttle Boss or whatever.

The Power Of Rationalization!!! Have a couple of beers less each month and Enjoy MRV!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

[Reality check]

I, for one, don't like the idea of the charge.
This doesn't seem to be much different than the Doupleplay software addition that didn't cost.

Now for the "check":

Let everyone express their idea/opinion.
We don't need to have this thread become a back and forth between those that don't like it and those that feel it's fine.

Post, state your opinion and leave it at that.
No one will change my mind and I don't expect to change others.

If DirecTV gets enough feedback they may or may not change their plans.

[/end of reality check]


----------



## GrumpyBear

veryoldschool said:


> [Reality check]
> 
> I, for one, don't like the idea of the charge.
> This doesn't seem to be much different than the Doupleplay software addition that didn't cost.
> 
> Now for the "check":
> 
> Let everyone express their idea/opinion.
> We don't need to have this thread become a back and forth between those that don't like it and those that feel it's fine.
> 
> Post, state your opinion and leave it at that.
> No one will change my mind and I don't expect to change others.
> 
> If DirecTV gets enough feedback they may or may not change their plans.
> 
> [/end of reality check]


It will be interesting to see what they charge and how it plays out to the mass's, and how the fee gets marketed against them.

Lots of people will look at what U-verse does, and the fact they don't charge(rather you can get U-verse or want U-Verse isn't the point, the mass's see these commercials), Dish is also coming out with MRV solution, pay for the hardware to make it work, (or hopefully upgrade to new DVR, and use your existing ones, but not the point at the moment) but its a tangable thing, you are actually purchasing something.

Direct charging monthly, is a strange way to go. Here our competion has this technology, we have it too, but if you want it please pay for it monthly.

I think Doubleplay is very different, as its a replacement for DLB, something Direct users had then lost.


----------



## HoTat2

Me personally, I just wish I knew more about this upgrade offer from DirecTV for MRV networking once beta testing is complete.

My PowerLine adapters are next to useless for MRV here, and I definitely need DECA. But I have a legacy multiswitch setup here feeding a HR21-200 and HR22-100 and four legacy SD-DVRs.

So do I run out and purchase a SWM-8 module, splitters, connectors, etc. off e-bay or something and install it myself to prepare for DECA or wait to see if DirecTV is going to offer a less expensive upgrade path?


----------



## Richierich

WAIT!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

HoTat2 said:


> Me personally, I just wish I knew more about this upgrade offer from DirecTV for MRV networking once beta testing is complete.
> 
> My PowerLine adapters are next to useless for MRV here, and I definitely need DECA. But I have a legacy multiswitch setup here feeding a HR21-200 and HR22-100 and four legacy SD-DVRs.
> 
> So do I run out and purchase a SWM-8 module, splitters, connectors, etc. off e-bay or something and install it myself to prepare for DECA or wait to see if DirecTV is going to offer a less expensive upgrade path?


DirecTV is asking everyone to NOT go out and spend money upgrading the home network.
Once the Beta draws to [or near] a close, they plan to have a DECA upgrade package available.


----------



## jacmyoung

richierich said:


> No I wouldn't.
> 
> However, I thought Directv would charge us a Minimal Fee all along and I never thought it would be Free so it doesn't bother me to pay $2.99 or whatever for the Service because I would pay alot more for it.
> 
> I elected to install my Network and my 4 WGA600N Adapters and I never expected Directv to Maintain or Support my Network anymore than I expected them to Support my eSATA External Drive because I knew going in that they had said that they indeed would not Support them.
> 
> So, it just boils down to whether I think $2.99 is worth it for me to Enable MRV and support the ongoing Software Maintenance and Future Enhancements. I definitely feel it is worth it and will gladly pay for it even if it means one less bottle of wine.
> 
> You can Afford what you Want to Afford. A frugal friend of mine couldn't afford 2 or 3 things for his motorcycle so I bought them for him as a gift.
> 
> Then one day I found out that he had bought a $4,600 Graphite Bicycle for getting himself into shape. Unbelievable. He said it would make him go Faster than if he bought a regular $1,800 Bicycle. I told him that if it were for exercise and he wanted to go Faster than he should PEDAL FASTER and that would ensure he would lose extra calories and weight and get in better shape.
> 
> Nope, had to have the Expensive Bike to beat others he rode with so he had rationalized why he could spend a ton of money on a bike but he couldn't spend $30 a a Throttle Boss or whatever.
> 
> The Power Of Rationalization!!! Have a couple of beers less each month and Enjoy MRV!!!


You continue to miss the point. When you pay for something, if it breaks down, you expect support from the provider that sold you the product/service.

If your 4 WGA600N Adapters, or your Network, or your eSATA External Drive, or that $4,600 Graphite Bicycle, stop working, you would expect the product vendor or the manufacture to provide support because you paid for the product or service.

If DirecTV charges me for the MRV service, I expect some support from DirecTV if the service stops working. Now if it is my network's issue, I expect ATT to provide support for that. If the MRV stops working because my microwave oven is emitting some out of compliance signal interference, I expect my microwave manufacture to provide support to fix that.

I hope I have made it clear, and I will not go in circle on this one anymore, it has been said enough.


----------



## Richierich

And you are missing my point. I believe we are paying Directv for the MRV Software and if that breaks then I expect some kind of support. If I purchase Deca from Directv I expect support for that product.

However, if you pay for Deca and I pay for my Network, we are both prepared now to be able to receive and use MRV. All we have to do is pay $2.99 or whatever and we can both enjoy MRV.

However, if your Deca fails to work properly you call Directv and they come out and fix it. If my Network fails, I fix it. Very Simple.

I'm going Skiing at the end of February in Vai, Co. I buy Lift Tickets which enables me to be able to ski. However, I have to have skiis. I can either bring mine or rent theirs. If their ski fails to work properly they will fix it or replace it. If my skiis break I have to fix them. Same type of deal. You are paying $2.99 for the MRV Service and not for Deca as that is a separate charge. The Support is for the Deca Network and not for MRV.


----------



## OptimusPrime

So - once again...is it a software upgrade, or a new service?

Folks, DIRECTV has made up their mind. The decision apparently has been made, it appears publicly on their website - *there will be a charge*. The debate of whether or not this is appropriate will go on forever.

I have a wireless G network - all my receivers are hard-wired and MRV works great. It is my opinion that a fee is not appropriate for those customers with a reliable, self-managed home network and want to use a feature that the current DIRECTV hardware and software is capable of handling.

Doug is right. DIRECTV is a business and can charge for whatever they want. Richierich is right. People who want it bad enough will pony up for the fee.

I agree with VOS and many others who do not support the fee.

Great development - hurray software team. Good job. Bottom line, since there will be a charge, I won't use it.


----------



## Richierich

OptimusPrime said:


> Great development - hurray software team. Good job. Bottom line, since there will be a charge, I won't use it.


I find it hard to believe that you refuse to pony up $2.99 or whatever it will be but then again I look at your Signature and see some pretty nice equipment and money didn't seem to slow you down there. You wanted nice equipment and by God you got it which is your right as you work to earn the money to pay for it.

Once again you can Rationalize anything in your mind if you want it bad enough. I can do without one more bottle of wine in order to enjoy MRV but apparently after spending all of that money on that Fine Audio/Video System you have, you ran out of money!!! :lol:

Your Setup:

HR21-700, LG 42" 42LB5D (HDMI)

R22-200 w/HD, RCA 32" tube (S-video)

HR22-100, Samsung 58" PN58B550 (HDMI/optical)
Xbox 360 (HDMI/optical)
Denon AVR 3300 (5.1/7.1)
MonoPrice in-wall speakers

Not Too Shabby!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

OptimusPrime said:


> Doug is right. DIRECTV is a business and can charge for whatever they want. Richierich is right. People who want it bad enough will pony up for the fee.
> 
> I agree with VOS and many others who do not support the fee.
> 
> Great development - hurray software team. Good job. Bottom line, since there will be a charge, I won't use it.


Some will pony up,. some won't.

Some use Direct on Demand, some don't.

Some get NFL Sunday Ticket, some don't.

It's good to have choices.


----------



## jacmyoung

richierich said:


> ...we are both prepared now to be able to receive and use MRV. All we have to do is pay $2.99 or whatever and we can both enjoy MRV...


The mistake in the above statement is you assume as long as you have a proper network, DirecTV's MRV will work flawlessly, i.e. if the MRV stops working, it has to be the hardware's fault.

I am saying the MRV software itself may have bugs and need fixes along the way, like all software products. In the CE program, DirecTV did nothing to support our networks, only to fix its own MRV bugs. If you are correct, DirecTV would not have had the need to have this CE program, nor the current beta program, what is the point? The MRV will work as long as your network works properly, correct? So why even test it? What can possibly be tested?

Or put it this way, after the beta test, once it is released, will MRV always work flawlessly, assume your network and hardware work fine? You seem to assume such outcome, which is entirely faulty. There will always be bugs need fixed, new features added which will introduce more bug fixes along the way that may have nothing to do with your specific network/hardware.

Or even if the bug fixes are related to a specific network structure, as long as DirecTV charges a fee to allow people to use its MRV service on such network structure, it is expected that DirecTV should provide software support on such network system. It may be a diffcult thing to do, which Doug has mentioned and I agreed, because a third party network is hard to support. But if you let people do it and charge a fee to do it, there is the expectation some kind of support is provided.

The issue here is not how much is the charge, but if there is a charge, should people expect some kind of support? The level of support also depends on how much the charge is. If the charge is $15/mo., there would better be a good support regardless what my network looks like, if the charge is $1/mo., I cannot expect much support, but a little support nevertheless.


----------



## OptimusPrime

richierich said:


> Once again you can Rationalize anything in your mind if you want it bad enough.


Precisely. I don't think the fee is appropriate. I won't pay for it. You are also entitled to your opinion.


----------



## Richierich

OptimusPrime said:


> Precisely. I don't think the fee is appropriate. I won't pay for it. You are also entitled to your opinion.


And you are appropriately entitled to yours so much so you can choose to Vote with your Wallet as in "I will not pay for it!!!". And if enough people do that maybe down the road Directv will give it to us for Free. I'm all for that but until that time I will pay for it and enjoy it.

I didn't build my Network just for MRV by the way but whether I did or not I chose to do it and Directv did not make me do it. I spent alot of money doing it but if MRV ain't Free I am not going to Pout and Hold My Breath Until They Give It To Me For Free!!! We're only taking $3 not alot of money in my way of thinking and I have wanted this for 4 or 5 years when I first heard it proposed by Michael Powell, Chairman of the FCC at that time.


----------



## jacmyoung

richierich said:


> And you are appropriately entitled to yours so much so you can choose to Vote with your Wallet as in "I will not pay for it!!!". And if enough people do that maybe down the road Directv will give it to us for Free. I'm all for that but until that time I will pay for it and enjoy it.
> 
> I didn't build my Network just for MRV by the way but whether I did or not I chose to do it and Directv did not make me do it. I spent alot of money doing it but if MRV ain't Free I am not going to Pout and Hold My Breath Until They Give It To Me For Free!!! We're only taking $3 not alot of money in my way of thinking and I have wanted this for 4 or 5 years when I first heard it proposed by Michael Powell, Chairman of the FCC at that time.


Can you promise us once you start to pay for the MRV service, you will never call DirecTV for support no matter what kind of issues are with your MRV?


----------



## HoTat2

richierich said:


> WAIT!!!





veryoldschool said:


> DirecTV is asking everyone to NOT go out and spend money upgrading the home network.
> Once the Beta draws to [or near] a close, they plan to have a DECA upgrade package available.


OK fine;

Just two things I'm hoping for then;

1) The upgrade paths are reasonably priced and sufficiently flexible to accommodate former legacy installs with more legacy receivers than SWM capable ones.

2) More importantly, please no subscription term commitments tied to this upgrade. :nono2:


----------



## veryoldschool

HoTat2 said:


> OK fine;
> 
> Just two things I'm hoping for then;
> 
> 1) The upgrade paths are reasonably priced and sufficiently flexible to accommodate former legacy installs with more legacy receivers than SWM capable ones.
> 
> 2) More importantly, please no subscription term commitments tied to this upgrade. :nono2:


1) there is a SWiM16 in the works and even a SWiM32. Legacy will either get upgraded or have the option to not be part of the DECA and run on their own switch.
2) well I doubt you'll get a low cost upgrade without some commitment for them to offset the costs, sorry.


----------



## jacmyoung

HoTat2 said:


> OK fine;
> 
> Just two things I'm hoping for then;
> 
> 1) The upgrade paths are reasonably priced and sufficiently flexible to accommodate former legacy installs with more legacy receivers than SWM capable ones.
> 
> 2) More importantly, please no subscription term commitments tied to this upgrade. :nono2:


Correct me if I am wrong, are there even any SWM/DECA systems out there for beta testing? I thought this beta program is aimed at those of us who already have our own networks ready for MRV?

If so DirecTV seems fully committed to support the use of the MRV on third party networks.


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, are there even any SWM/DECA systems out there for beta testing? I thought this beta program is aimed at those of us who already have our own networks ready for MRV?
> 
> If so DirecTV seems fully committed to support the use of the MRV on third party networks.


You will be able to use DIY networks .. In fact it may work great for you. DIRECTV will not help you debug networking issues on this network. DECA is just a different networking structure. This is something that the techs will be trained on for installation and support. If a tech comes to your house and sees a cable plugged into your Linksys router and not DECA .. He'll suggest DECA or say .. Sorry, can't help with your network.

I don't understand your "fully committed to support" comment. Yeah, it might work as in you can use MRV over third party networks. but if it breaks, you can't call up DIRECTV and ask them why your router isn't working.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> You will be able to use DIY networks .. In fact it may work great for you. DIRECTV will not help you debug networking issues on this network. DECA is just a different networking structure. This is something that the techs will be trained on for installation and support. If a tech comes to your house and sees a cable plugged into your Linksys router and not DECA .. He'll suggest DECA or say .. Sorry, can't help with your network.


That makes perfect (business) sense.

There are simply too many varieties of home grown networks out there to support them all....whereas a "standard infrastructure like DECA" can easily be supported.


----------



## biggie4852

Doug Brott said:


> I've said this multiple times already ..
> 
> You CAN use your home network for MRV, VOD, etc. You WILL NOT get any networking support from DIRECTV if you do.
> 
> If you do use your own home network, then you are on your own in terms of "how it works" for you.


"On your own" I don't understand why you are so invested in only using DTV approach to hardware. I'm assuming your hard line adversarial role in this conversation to any opposing view is some bias toward DTV. I 'm questioning this as a customer of DTV and user of there service, not as an advocate for them. 
It is almost like we got to chose there system or else, why? We on here have done all this work over the last year, and so far all of it "on our own". I in paticular am willing to go forward without Direct TV tech support's helps. I set up this network purchasing two different wire and one wirless system to get these DVR network without any help. I solve my software problem within the networking with Media share my photo's and video "on my own". Why do I need there support now? Just because there is a fee for the feature still doesn't mean they no how to fix it. All of a sudden I can't continue to make it work, with out DTV support cmon. Frankly I think I'm more knowledgeable about this than some shumck in Kansas in a call center. Man I 'm sorry but some of you guys toe to much of a party line to be "CE" particpants.


----------



## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> You will be able to use DIY networks .. In fact it may work great for you. DIRECTV will not help you debug networking issues on this network. DECA is just a different networking structure. This is something that the techs will be trained on for installation and support. If a tech comes to your house and sees a cable plugged into your Linksys router and not DECA .. He'll suggest DECA or say .. Sorry, can't help with your network.
> 
> I don't understand your "fully committed to support" comment. Yeah, it might work as in you can use MRV over third party networks. but if it breaks, you can't call up DIRECTV and ask them why your router isn't working.


I am not asking DirecTV tech to fix any of my ATT network issues. My point is, if DirecTV is planning to have a nationwide beta test program, done almost exclusively for those of us who use third party networks, that seems a commitment in supporting such arrangement. Otherwise why bother? Let's wait for people to complete their SWM/DECA MRV beta test, then only install the SWM/DECA MRV.


----------



## LameLefty

biggie4852 said:


> "On your own" I don't understand why you are so invested in only using DTV approach to hardware. I'm assuming your hard line adversal role in this conversation to any opposing view is bias toward DTV. I 'm questioning this as a customer of DTV and user of there service, not as an advocate for them.
> It is almost like we got to chose there system or else, why? We on here have done all this work over the last year, and so far all of it "on our own". I in paticular am willing to go forward without Direct TV tech support's helps. I set up this network purchasing two different wire and one wirless system to get these DVR network without any help. I solve my software problem within the networking with Media share my photo's and video "on my own". Why do I need there support now? Just because there is a fee for the feature still doesn't mean they no how to fix it. All of a sudden I can't continue to make it work, with out DTV support cmon. Frankly I think I'm more knowledgeable about this than some shumck in Kansas in a call center. Man I 'm sorry but some of you guys toe to much of a party line to be "CE" particpants.


I think you're reading WAY too much into Doug's comments.

What is so hard about this concept: Directv has a networking system specifically tailored toward use with their DVRs. If you use that system, they will provide support. If you don't, you have to make it work yourself.

THAT'S IT. There's nothing more nefarious about it than that.


----------



## spartanstew

LameLefty said:


> I think you're reading WAY too much into Doug's comments.


I'm still trying to figure out what adversal means.


----------



## Doug Brott

biggie4852 said:


> "On your own" I don't understand why you are so invested in only using DTV approach to hardware. I'm assuming your hard line adversal role in this conversation to any opposing view is bias toward DTV. I 'm questioning this as a customer of DTV and user of there service, not as an advocate for them.


Let me be a little clearer .. We'll gladly do what we can to help you out here so "on your own" means "with the help of your DBSTalk buddies" .. I'm stating facts as I know them .. ergo I'm the messenger letting you know what the policy is going to be @ DIRECTV. It has nothing to do with any bias.

If your router/switch combination works for MRV, then use it. Just don't ask DIRECTV to help you figure out what's wrong with your router if something goes haywire on your network. :shrug:



> It is almost like we got to chose there system or else, why? We on here have done all this work over the last year, and so far all of it "on our own". I in paticular am willing to go forward without Direct TV tech support's helps. I set up this network purchasing two different wire and one wirless system to get these DVR network without any help. I solve my software problem within the networking with Media share my photo's and video "on my own". Why do I need there support now? Just because there is a fee for the feature still doesn't mean they no how to fix it. All of a sudden I can't continue to make it work, with out DTV support cmon. Frankly I think I'm more knowledgeable about this than some shumck in Kansas in a call center. Man I 'm sorry but some of you guys toe to much of a party line to be "CE" particpants.


Use your equipment .. If you don't need support from DIRECTV why does it matter? :shrug:


----------



## Doug Brott

jacmyoung said:


> I am not asking DirecTV tech to fix any of my ATT network issues. My point is, if DirecTV is planning to have a nationwide beta test program, done almost exclusively for those of us who use third party networks, that seems a commitment in supporting such arrangement. Otherwise why bother? Let's wait for people to complete their SWM/DECA MRV beta test, then only install the SWM/DECA MRV.


I've been told that when it's all said and done, DECA will be the solution that DIRECTV techs will install and that will be supported in the call center. Everything else is on the "not recommended" list .. BUT .. if it works, it works so a "commitment to support" is an argument in semantics and if that means .. yeah, they'll talk to you on the phone and do what they can .. then you're right, that will probably happen.


----------



## Doug Brott

spartanstew said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what adversal means.


Apparently "shoot the messenger" is en vogue.


----------



## Doug Brott

LameLefty said:


> I think you're reading WAY too much into Doug's comments.
> 
> What is so hard about this concept: Directv has a networking system specifically tailored toward use with their DVRs. If you use that system, they will provide support. If you don't, you have to make it work yourself.
> 
> THAT'S IT. There's nothing more nefarious about it than that.


Bingo! You've got it.


----------



## HoTat2

jacmyoung said:


> I am not asking DirecTV tech to fix any of my ATT network issues. My point is, if DirecTV is planning to have a nationwide beta test program, done almost exclusively for those of us who use third party networks, that seems a commitment in supporting such arrangement. Otherwise why bother? Let's wait for people to complete their SWM/DECA MRV beta test, then only install the SWM/DECA MRV.


Now this I can agree with  ;

As I don't quite understand the logic behind DirecTV's putting MRV into a national release supposedly for a voluntary beta testing program in addition to or beyond what the CE subscribers were already performing, before releasing the DECA modules to market. 

How can MRV be fairly beta tested during this program without DECA?


----------



## veryoldschool

HoTat2 said:


> How can MRV be fairly beta tested during this program without DECA?


A good wired network will perform just as well as a DECA network does.


----------



## biggie4852

spartanstew said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what adversal means.


lol: You are to true thank you sir: I humbly admit my error and will correct my spelling in the original post. I was just so hot reading this forum and some of the comments. I didn't proofread my own post. I still feel the same a fee is ok pay or not is always a choice. But don't make me buy your equipment when I already got the same thing working myself. I don't need tech support for the service to work in my home it already does. I'm paying DTV a fee already for each HD box, a DVR fee, a HD service fee a protection fee and etc. etc etc.. :grin:


----------



## HoTat2

veryoldschool said:


> A good wired network will perform just as well as a DECA network does.


Wait, what are you saying VOS?

That the ability of not having to rely on a home network's ethernet switch/router gear or not having bandwidth hogging MRV data transfers compete with other home network traffic by keeping all MRV data traffic isolated within the DECA cloud is not really a performance advantage over a conventional wired network that typically would have these limitations when running MRV?


----------



## veryoldschool

HoTat2 said:


> Wait, what are you saying VOS?
> 
> That the ability of not having to rely on a home network's ethernet switch/router gear or not having bandwidth hogging MRV data transfers compete with other home network traffic by keeping all MRV data traffic isolated within the DECA cloud is not really a performance advantage over a conventional wired network that typically would have these limitations when running MRV?


Guess this would depend on how much traffic is there.
I've run both wired and [have] DECA and they've worked exactly the same.
MRV is around 15 Mb/s, with trickplay peaking at around 35 Mb/s, which hasn't been any problem here.
Using switches can keep the traffic out of the router.
If your network is such that bandwidth is a problem, then DECA is a real solution.


----------



## RAD

HoTat2 said:


> Wait, what are you saying VOS?
> 
> That the ability of not having to rely on a home network's ethernet switch/router gear or not having bandwidth hogging MRV data transfers compete with other home network traffic by keeping all MRV data traffic isolated within the DECA cloud is not really a performance advantage over a conventional wired network that typically would have these limitations when running MRV?


I'd be willing to bet that for most home 100Mbps networks any MRV traffic on there will probably not even be noticed by folks using the computers. I've had three MRV HD streams concurrently through a 100Mbps switch an a single uplink to another switch, a local Sling box session and ran a www.speedtest.net test from a workstation on my 18Mbps/2Mbps internet connection. The speed test didn't show any change from what normally is shown and didn't see any different performance on any MRV session vs. one only one MRV us being used.


----------



## biggie4852

veryoldschool said:


> Guess this would depend on how much traffic is there.
> I've run both wired and [have] DECA and they've worked exactly the same.
> MRV is around 15 Mb/s, with trickplay peaking at around 35 Mb/s, which hasn't been any problem here.
> Using switches can keep the traffic out of the router.
> If your network is such that bandwidth is a problem, then DECA is a real solution.


What are the limit that cause MRV to become unwatchable and how does the DECA improve it over a hard wired set up?


----------



## OptimusPrime

biggie4852 said:


> What are the limit that cause MRV to become unwatchable and how does the DECA improve it over a hard wired set up?


I'm not sure those determinations have been made yet. I think a big advantage of DECA, as mentioned by Doug and others, is the fact that it is a supported product of DIRECTV. If it breaks, or isn't working properly - you can call customer support and they will be trained to help you. As to whether or not it can/will perform better than your home network remains to be seen.

Here's a question - will DIRECTV2PC, like MRV - eventually incur a type of monthly fee?


----------



## HoTat2

Oh well ... 

Guess the only real advantage of DECA then is eliminating the need to pull ethernet cable through the house since you can use the existing DirecTV satellite cable plant. 

But perhaps that alone is advantage enough for many people.

Though I was hoping the ability to keep MRV data bottled up in the DECA cloud and separate from home network traffic would translate into a noticeable gain over a wired network. :nono2:


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## Doug Brott

RAD said:


> I'd be willing to bet that for most home 100Mbps networks any MRV traffic on there will probably not even be noticed by folks using the computers. I've had three MRV HD streams concurrently through a 100Mbps switch an a single uplink to another switch, a local Sling box session and ran a www.speedtest.net test from a workstation on my 18Mbps/2Mbps internet connection. The speed test didn't show any change from what normally is shown and didn't see any different performance on any MRV session vs. one only one MRV us being used.


This is probably true as long as the router and switch can maintain a fast enough continuous data rate. Don't assume that it will. The key is if it does work good for the most part on a standard wired network it's probably OK. That just may not be the case in every situation.


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## Doug Brott

HoTat2 said:


> Oh well ...
> 
> Guess the only real advantage of DECA then is eliminating the need to pull ethernet cable through the house since you can use the existing DirecTV satellite cable plant.
> 
> But perhaps that alone is advantage enough for many people.
> 
> Though I was hoping the ability to keep MRV data bottled up in the DECA cloud and separate from home network traffic would translate into a noticeable gain over a wired network. :nono2:


DECA will do VERY WELL in situations where networking is new to the receivers. It's much easier to install in these situations.


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## veryoldschool

biggie4852 said:


> What are the limit that cause MRV to become unwatchable and how does the DECA improve it over a hard wired set up?


I can't say what the limit is since I haven't had/reached it here.
What does seem to be important is maybe not "how much" but that "every bit" for MRV [and DirecTV2PC for that matter] arrive at the client at the right time, since this is streaming data and not file transfer.
Internet traffic or transfer between PCs can miss a packet of data and simply ask the sender to resend it. With streaming, any missed packet doesn't get asked to be sent again as the client can't wait and must simply skip it and move on with playback.


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## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> With streaming, any missed packet doesn't get asked to be sent again as the client can't wait and must simply skip it and move on with playback.


Unless something changed since the last time I did a packet trace with Wireshark they're using TCP/IP for the network protocol. TCP can/does handle missing/corrupted packets and if the receiver has a large enough buffer and the network is quick enough a packet can be resent and the view won't even notice.


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## jacmyoung

Doug Brott said:


> Apparently "shoot the messenger" is en vogue.


No one is trying to shoot you Doug, I am just trying to say DirecTV should support those who use their own networks for MRV, and the fact they are planning to do beta tests on people's own networks demonstrates they will support such arrangement. They may say if you want service guarantee, then only their own DECA connection will provide that. The entire CE program has been asking the folks with their own networks to test the MRV for them, to say now DirecTV has almost completed the test and MRV is ready to roll, those who did the tests for them will not get any support is unreasonable, especially when DirecTV has decided to charge a monthly fee.

Of course you are just passing their words, we are just giving our feedback, nothing personal.


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## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Unless something changed since the last time I did a packet trace with Wireshark they're using TCP/IP for the network protocol. TCP can/does handle missing/corrupted packets and if the receiver has a large enough buffer and the network is quick enough a packet can be resent and the view won't even notice.


OK maybe I was being too simplistic, but there isn't much buffer in the H21/23.


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## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> OK maybe I was being too simplistic, but there isn't much buffer in the H21/23.


From what testing I've down, for a HD MPEG4 program it's between 5 to 7 seconds, more then enough to get a retransmisson done on a 100Mbps network IMHO. Just look how fast a skip back get's handled and that's dumping the buffer and starting to send the stream over again.


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## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> From what testing I've down, for a HD MPEG4 program it's between 5 to 7 seconds, more then enough to get a retransmisson done on a 100Mbps network IMHO. Just look how fast a skip back get's handled and that's dumping the buffer and starting to send the stream over again.


I've read your [good] posts, but sometimes I just try to make it simple so some can/will get the idea.


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## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> I've read your [good] posts, but sometimes I just try to make it simple so some can/will get the idea.


OK, NP, just spent too many years in networking.


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## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> OK, NP, just spent too many years in networking.


 Thanks, so there is what around 100 mega bits of buffer that this has/needs and when this isn't enough it ends up like my simplistic view?


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## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> Thanks, so there is what around 100 mega bits of buffer that this has/needs and when this isn't enough it ends up like my simplistic view?


If the buffer isn't able to keep enough data in it to provide an uninterrupted stream you're going to get pauses in the playback. When that happens pause the client for awhile and when you start again playback will be fine until the buffer gets drained again and then back to the pausing. So from what I've seen if you're running on that fine line where the client is basically displaying the data as soon as it gets it if you get a missing/corrupted packet there will be a pause while it's retransmitted since TCP is used, if it was UDP then yep, no retransmission unless the client playback software asked for it.


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## veryoldschool

^ I hope this has helped those asking/wondering about their networks.


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## mikeny

There's a lot of good reading here.

It seems like the consensus is that in general, a wired network should work similarly to DECA but it may save some the inconvenience of needing to run CAT5 to a new location. That is an awesome option for many people who would rather go that route. Wireless and powerline are much more unpredicable.

I still believe the fair resolution here is to charge a fee for a DECA install or upgrade. Waive monthly fees. Provide a level of tech support to *all*. Hey, they do sell the wireless bridges too and _can even_(at least should be able) to troubleshoot them.

If anything, charge everyone a one-time activation fee. Don't charge redundant monthly fees. After raising rates, including the DVR fee, the timing is also poor for this speculaton. (or should I say announcement) I hope they reconsider.


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## dbmaven

JeffBowser said:


> Amazing to me how people think software development, maintenance, and support is such a trivial thing. That's my business folks, and it is not trivial, nor are its costs. Like or dislike DirecTV's pricing policies, software is not a trivial afterthought, before, during, or after development.


If you were referring to me - that happens to be my business as well - and I did not trivialize it by any stretch of the imagination. For that matter, my business is in a highly regulated environment - where the costs are significantly HIGHER than what DirecTV deals with.

If I was trying to make a point - it's the fact that they save themselves a ton of money, both in the actual integration and system test process, as well as in support, by virtue of the legion of free "alpha" testers they have.


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## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> DECA will do VERY WELL in situations where networking is new to the receivers. It's much easier to install in these situations.


That pretty much says it all, in terms of the go-forward strategy I suspect.

They will install and support DECA...otherwise....you're on your own for support.

The fee will be the fee regardless (and likely a small one).

Since a minority of customers have (or will have) networked configurations, this will impact only those folks (the fee).

I hate to pay any MRV fee like the next guy, and would like to see it free...but each person will simply have to judge if its worth whatever the fee is....and then get it or not get it.


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## GrumpyBear

Question for those that have this up and working. 
Does the preformance of the DVR that has the recording slow down, while somebody is watching a recorded show off of that DVR on a different DVR. What I mean does Channel surfing, channel Changing, TrickPlay slow down the Host DVR while somebody is connected to it, and watching a recording?


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## Doug Brott

GrumpyBear said:


> Question for those that have this up and working.
> Does the preformance of the DVR that has the recording slow down, while somebody is watching a recorded show off of that DVR on a different DVR. What I mean does Channel surfing, channel Changing, TrickPlay slow down the Host DVR while somebody is connected to it, and watching a recording?


I can't say that I've noticed this myself.


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## GrumpyBear

Doug Brott said:


> I can't say that I've noticed this myself.


I wasn't saying there was, I was asking if there was. Nice to hear, that overall speed is the same. I was just wondering, with a remote DVR watching a recording, and pausing, fastforwarding, and rewinding of live TV, "if" there was a performance difference.


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## kmattoo

my MRV has been working pretty well (besides the typical pauses/sound issues) thus far. I have 2 DVRs: one in the family room and one in the office. 

however, after my wife watched an episode on MRV downstairs (while live tv is being watched on the office tv), she started to watch another show and found that it would not play. 

The episode had the red symbol (stop?) next to the episode title and when you tried to play the program the following popup came up: The program can't be played because too many programs are being watched from playlist: OFFICE.

On the Office DVR, the only thing being watched is live tv. If I turn off the Office DVR, the family room DVR continues to get the same message.

Any thoughts?

Both are HR21/200 both w/ the current software.


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## DogLover

kmattoo said:


> my MRV has been working pretty well (besides the typical pauses/sound issues) thus far. I have 2 DVRs: one in the family room and one in the office.
> 
> however, after my wife watched an episode on MRV downstairs (while live tv is being watched on the office tv), she started to watch another show and found that it would not play.
> 
> The episode had the red symbol (stop?) next to the episode title and when you tried to play the program the following popup came up: The program can't be played because too many programs are being watched from playlist: OFFICE.
> 
> On the Office DVR, the only thing being watched is live tv. If I turn off the Office DVR, the family room DVR continues to get the same message.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Both are HR21/200 both w/ the current software.


Assuming no one was using DirecTV2PC to view a program from the office, it sounds like a bug. It seems like the family room DVR didn't properly communicate with the office DVR that it had finished watching the first show. Since the DVR's support only 1 MRV stream at a time, it wouldn't let your wife start what it thought was a second stream.

A reboot of the office DVR would probably fix the issue if it continues.

Please add this to the issues thread, so that DirecTV will know of it.


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## Richierich

You just need to Reboot the Office DVR. Sometimes the MRV doesn't get stopped completely as it thinks it is Paused and the Stream is still present so a Reboot will clear up that situation.


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## Lee L

SO, will regular techs install the DECA setup or will they have seperate DECA techs that come out? I imagine a new install it would not be much more work to do it, but whatabout retrofits once they get this thing rolling for real?


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## Doug Brott

I'm pretty sure that regular techs can be trained to do this fairly quickly. DECA installations are literally the easiest networking I've ever had to install.


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## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> I'm pretty sure that regular techs can be trained to do this fairly quickly. DECA installations are literally the easiest networking I've ever had to install.


Agree.

Even a caveman could do a DECA install.


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## davidmoss59

I know this is going to sounds stupid, but i've read every entry on the forum and can't find the answer... so lets bottom line this...

Am I going to be required to use DECA and a SLM for MRV to work, or will it still work with my home network. I've been on the cutting edge software for months and have had really no issues using my home network.

I have 4 HR20s networked together along with another 3 receivers. A SLM won't work with that many I understand.

So, if someone can just bottom line this answer for me I would appreciate it.


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## davidmoss59

I guess I mean SWM, not SLM. Same question though.


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## dpeters11

davidmoss59 said:


> I know this is going to sounds stupid, but i've read every entry on the forum and can't find the answer... so lets bottom line this...
> 
> Am I going to be required to use DECA and a SLM for MRV to work, or will it still work with my home network. I've been on the cutting edge software for months and have had really no issues using my home network.
> 
> I have 4 HR20s networked together along with another 3 receivers. A SLM won't work with that many I understand.
> 
> So, if someone can just bottom line this answer for me I would appreciate it.


It'll work, but not supported by DirecTV. If you have problems that you can't figure out, you'll have to either deal with us or go DECA.


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## JustSo

On the Directv.com/multiroom page, it says:
"Please do not purchase any additional receivers to participate in this beta trial. If your existing receivers are not currently networked please do not network them to participate in the beta testing phase. Once the service launches nationally there will be a special offer available to take advantage of the service. "

I'm in a situation where I have an HR20 and an H20, meaning I can't participate in this beta. The website says not to purchase any additional receivers and instead to wait for a special offer to take advantage of the service. Does anyone have any idea how long this beta will last? I would really love to have MRV but the indefinite waiting period is a bit of a downer.


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## Richierich

I have heard that this Beta will last approximately 3 months.


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## Rob

I need 5 seconds more buffer for HD content. It's working fine for SD. HD has been hit or miss. 2 HR20's (1 connected LAN cable to WRT400N (N only @ 5ghz to Linksys N reciever at the other end)

Pausing the DVR doesn't seem to stop the hiccups while in MRV.


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## Rob Dawn

Slightly off topic but if I upgrade a leased R15 to an HR2x, how long will I have to return the R15?
(I plan on doing this upgrade once MRV/DECA is out of beta - assuming equipment and monthly charges are reasonable!! - and I always have stuff on the R15 to watch, so I just want to be prepared for how quickly I will have to empty it off! )


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## say-what

Rob Dawn said:


> Slightly off topic but if I upgrade a leased R15 to an HR2x, how long will I have to return the R15?
> (I plan on doing this upgrade once MRV/DECA is out of beta - assuming equipment and monthly charges are reasonable!! - and I always have stuff on the R15 to watch, so I just want to be prepared for how quickly I will have to empty it off! )


If they want the unit back, they send a recovery box and expect to see it within a week to 10 days. Any longer is at your own risk.


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## 430970

Doug Brott said:


> I think the term you are looking for is *collaborative scheduling* .. I do not know if DIRECTV intends to support this as a feature or not.


I know this was a while ago, but without collaborative scheduling, this feature is of fairly limited use to me (would be too complicated to explain to the wife).

If I do decide to get a second TV, a second DVR will be my solution (probably sans MRV), for nothing else the ability to pause stuff. I'll probably just set up the most critical recordings twice, more as an insurance policy than anything else.

Again, MRV sounds useful, but not worth the $3 to me. Maybe down the road if there's a true client/server solution with something like 4 tuners in the server, or the collaborative scheduling feature, etc. That I'd pay extra for.

Of course this is all hypothetical. Right now I have one TV, and one DVR. I can see how beneficial this might be for someone with 3 or 4 TVs/DVRs, even with the manual scheduling on various DVRs.


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## joed32

JustSo said:


> On the Directv.com/multiroom page, it says:
> "Please do not purchase any additional receivers to participate in this beta trial. If your existing receivers are not currently networked please do not network them to participate in the beta testing phase. Once the service launches nationally there will be a special offer available to take advantage of the service. "
> 
> I'm in a situation where I have an HR20 and an H20, meaning I can't participate in this beta. The website says not to purchase any additional receivers and instead to wait for a special offer to take advantage of the service. Does anyone have any idea how long this beta will last? I would really love to have MRV but the indefinite waiting period is a bit of a downer.


Why not get an H21, 22, 23 and deactivate the H20 and send it back. I don't know what kind of deal you could get but you wouldn't have to wait until they get around to swapping you out.


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## Chuck W

mikeny said:


> There's a lot of good reading here.
> 
> It seems like the consensus is that in general, a wired network should work similarly to DECA but it may save some the inconvenience of needing to run CAT5 to a new location. That is an awesome option for many people who would rather go that route. Wireless and powerline are much more unpredicable.
> 
> I still believe the fair resolution here is to charge a fee for a DECA install or upgrade. Waive monthly fees. Provide a level of tech support to *all*. Hey, they do sell the wireless bridges too and _can even_(at least should be able) to troubleshoot them.
> 
> If anything, charge everyone a one-time activation fee. Don't charge redundant monthly fees. After raising rates, including the DVR fee, the timing is also poor for this speculaton. (or should I say announcement) I hope they reconsider.


I agree with the whole heartedly, but I HIGHLY doubt Directv will reconsider the fee. They seem to have become the KING of extra fees these days. I usually switch the channel in disgust when I see that ridiculous commercial where Directv tries to tout their lack of extra fees compared to DISH. I'm just waiting for DISH to run a rebuttal commercial with the seemingly laundry list of extra fees Directv charges.


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## 430970

Chuck W said:


> I agree with the whole heartedly, but I HIGHLY doubt Directv will reconsider the fee. They seem to have become the KING of extra fees these days. I usually switch the channel in disgust when I see that ridiculous commercial where Directv tries to tout their lack of extra fees compared to DISH. I'm just waiting for DISH to run a rebuttal commercial with the seemingly laundry list of extra fees Directv charges.


The only thing I'll say, in DirecTV's "defense" is that "add-on fees" are major revenue generators for just about every business these days.

The airlines, for example, are generating nearly all of their profit (and huge swathes of revenue) from things like baggage fees, fees for access to shorter lines, etc. There's one airline in Europe, in particular, that generates like 70% of their revenue this way.

For at least right now, consumers seem to be willing (not like we have a lot of choice) to pay the fees, rather than pay a higher up-front "full" charge for things.

Although it won't surprise me at all if it backfires in a macro-sense, as people find themselves "fee-d to death" and simply opt out of more and more monthly/subscription services, travel, etc. - at a certain point it's all just too much (whether charged as a fee or charged up-front).


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## hdtvfan0001

There is now a poll here to express your views on paying for MRV:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=171743


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## Stuart Sweet

So, I guess we don't need two threads on the subject. Let's keep the conversation going over there.


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