# DATA COLLECTION: Post-L225 Legacy Switch/LNB Issues



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm getting several reports of users with legacy switches or LNBs still having problems with the 942.

If you fall into this category, please describe in detail your configuration, and exactly the problem that you're seeing, how often you get hit with the problem, etc.

Thanks!


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

In the two days since getting 2.25, both days I've found my 942 sitting at the "Acquiring satellite signal 0 of 5" in the morning. Performing a check switch always resolves the problem, but it is time consuming and annoying to do this each day.

My setup is a Dish 500 with a legacy twin, both outputs cascaded to a pair of SW21s, the other inputs of the SW21s are connected to a legacy dual LNB connected to a Dish 300 pointed at 61.5. On the check switch screen, the orbital slots come up in this order: 1: 119 2: 110 3: 61.5 and 1: 119 2: 110 3: 61.5


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## gevange (Apr 3, 2005)

Last night I got the "Acquiring satellite signal " then froze at o of 5. Powerwed off then on and went to program download. I have a dish 500 into a sw64. George


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I received word today that the problem has been identified, and the fix for what was still wrong with the legacy side is in the works (actually, it's a bug with the signal acquisition). It probably won't make it into the next version, as the next version is close, but it will make it into the one after that.


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## gevange (Apr 3, 2005)

Thanks for the info. George


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

> I received word today that the problem has been identified, and the fix for what was still wrong with the legacy side is in the works (actually, it's a bug with the signal acquisition). It probably won't make it into the next version, as the next version is close, but it will make it into the one after that.


Mark, I have all Dish Pro Plus equipment, but I'm running into the same switch/acquiring satellite problems as people with legacy equipment. Are you saying that the upcoming fix will only address legacy equipment? If so, any word on the fix for Dish Pro Plus equipment?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No, it will also fix the long wait time at the signal acquisition page for dishpro equipment as well.


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## jenniemhall (May 29, 2005)

I have a similar problem, though it is not exactly the same. DP34. Port 1 - 110 Twin, Port 2 - 119 Twin, Port 3 - 61.5 Dual. I have a 942 and two 501s. Nightly it tells me I need to do a check switch on the 942 and one of the 501s. The check switch works fine on the 942, but the 501 only sees the 119 sat. If I leave things like this with one of the 501s only seeing the 119 sat then the 942 does not run into the check switch problem the following morning. When at the switch I swap the cables for the 501s, then do a check switch on all 3 receivers, everything works on all 3 receivers until the following morning. Then the other 501 only sees the 119 sat and the 942 needs to do the check switch. A tech is scheduled to come out on Tuesday, but I figured I ask for suggestions.


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

I have the problem every day. It seems to happen mid morning as I can check it in the early am and it is fine, and then check it around noon and it is in the acquiring satellite state. Again, every day without fail, and a check switch is the only thing that cures it. I have signal in the 90s while this is happening.

I have a DPP Twin on a Dish 500, with a DP Dual feeding it from 61.5. Single coax to the 942 with a separator. 942 is my only receiver.

Seems to have coincided with L225, but I only had the unit for a few days before 225 was distributed. One thing I have noticed is that when in the point dish screen when in this state, the signal bar on the bottom of the screen will be bouncing between red and green and is indicating it is trying to get a "name lock" or some such thing, and is not indicating it has acquired a lock on the satellite. Again, a check switch corrects this.

As many others will attest, it is becoming wearisome to do this every day. Hope it can be fixed soon.

Doug


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I *think* (have been a bit out of the loop for the last week) that new sofware may come this week.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

dougmcbride said:


> I have the problem every day. It seems to happen mid morning as I can check it in the early am and it is fine, and then check it around noon and it is in the acquiring satellite state. Again, every day without fail, and a check switch is the only thing that cures it. I have signal in the 90s while this is happening.
> 
> I have a DPP Twin on a Dish 500, with a DP Dual feeding it from 61.5. Single coax to the 942 with a separator. 942 is my only receiver.
> 
> ...


Are we getting any closer to 227 yet? I am getting very tired of doing a check switch every time I come home from work and missing timers because of this. 
REB


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

RBenson said:


> Are we getting any closer to 227 yet? I am getting very tired of doing a check switch every time I come home from work and missing timers because of this. I hope to hell they can get this resolved soon.. By the way, when I first got my 942 it worked just fine, and then the upgrades started :nono2:


I'm not sure that L227 will fix this problem, we may have to wait for L228. I'm running into the same problem as you. I called in a couple of weeks ago and spoke with a CSR who took my information down and filed what he called an "uncommon trend report." Two days ago an engineer called me back to collect more information. He stated that they are aware of the problem, but still trying to track this one down. He was fairly certain that the fix would *not* be implemented in L227.

The engineer stated that any other users who are experiencing similar problems with the Dish 942 software and who also have DPP Twin equipment should report the problem. The more information they collect, the better the chance that this problem will be solved.


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## BillM (Apr 27, 2005)

I just reached "advanced technical support", who told me that this problem is "high priority" and that they are working on it. In the meantime, they continue to reccomend that you turn off automatic updates of the guide, which means you only have to do the power cycle/switch check/guide load once a week or so. This has certainly made a difference for me...


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

BillM said:


> I just reached "advanced technical support", who told me that this problem is "high priority" and that they are working on it. In the meantime, they continue to reccomend that you turn off automatic updates of the guide, which means you only have to do the power cycle/switch check/guide load once a week or so. This has certainly made a difference for me...


Thanks Bill, I turned off the automatic updates and you're right, it will be much easier to manually update maybe once a week. Hopefully the problem will be resolved soon. Thanks again for the tip..

REB


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

Same here. Has anyone who had this problem seen it go away if their 942 was replaced?

Thanks,

Doug


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

dougmcbride said:


> Same here. Has anyone who had this problem seen it go away if their 942 was replaced?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug


*I think I figured out what the acquiring satellite signal/check switch problem is with my DPP Twin.* Actually, there are two problems...

The first problem is that one of the coax barrel connectors was not a high frequency connector, which I believe the DishPro Plus equipment requires. The coax cable from the DPP Twin is fed through my basement and up the living room wall to a wall plate that contains coax barrel connectors. These connectors are not high-frequency, although they were used with my DirecTiVo standard-definition system and have worked fine for years. I replaced the barrel connector with a high-frequency connector.

The second problem is that the cable run between the 61.5 dish and the DPP Twin LNB is approximately 120', which is lot more than the maximum limitation of 80'. My equipment includes a 61.5 dish hooked into a DPP Twin LNB at the 110/119 dish location. I have lots of trees in my yard, so the two dishes needed to be separated by a long cable run in order to get a signal on all satellites. The 61.5 dish is on the roof and 110/119 dish is located in the back yard. For now, I simply disconnected the 61.5 dish.

I'm still testing, but so far I've rebooted over ten times and the system has acquired the signal every time without a check switch. Also, I have not received the random acquiring satellite signal messages while watching TV. Of course, I'm running VOOMless for right now, but that's a small price to pay for stability. After I test for a few days, I'll look into solutions for hooking up the 61.5 dish. I think I can use a DP44 switch in conjunction with the DPP Twin.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

How can you tell a high frequency connector from the others? /This is the first I've heard of this connector.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The 2ghz+ connectors that I've seen are about an inch long, silver in barrell color and have blue inserts in the middle. They are quite a bit larger than the normal barrell connectors.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Mark, I got all my fittings fron radio shack and am sure they are not what you describe. should I find the right kind and change out?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

If you're having problems, it might not be a bad idea...


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

deweybrunner said:


> How can you tell a high frequency connector from the others? /This is the first I've heard of this connector.


I'm very new to this technology, so don't consider me an expert. However, I did some research and here's a website and forum that supports my high-frequency theory:

Dish Network DISHPro, Super Dish and DishPro Plus 
DishPro LNBs and Switches

Here are a few shopping sites that show you difference between the standard-frequency and the higher-frequency barrel connectors and grounding blocks:

1 GHz connector 
2 GHz connector 
1 GHz grounding block 
2 GHz grounding block

1 and 2+ GHz connectors and grounding blocks

It's kind of hard to tell the difference, although I noticed that the high-frequency connectors and grounding blocks includes an inset color (blue, red, green) at the point where the coax cable hex-connector screws into the barrel connector.


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

BillM said:


> I just reached "advanced technical support", who told me that this problem is "high priority" and that they are working on it. In the meantime, they continue to reccomend that you turn off automatic updates of the guide, which means you only have to do the power cycle/switch check/guide load once a week or so. This has certainly made a difference for me...


I got a new DPP Twin installed by my retailer to replace the original - no difference, still needed to do the Check Switch daily after about 10:00am. I almost think this whole DCS (Daily Check Switch  ) started for me when we hooked up the 61.5 wing to get Voom (thought prompted by the post on disconnecting the 61.5 dish) and the DCS problem went away. However, I had only been a Dish customer for about 2 weeks at that point and was just getting the hang of the whole system, as well as L226 coming out about that time, so it's hard to say.

*I did shut off the daily updates and the problem went away*. I've noticed however, that I still have the 9 days of guide data as time goes by. What's up with that? I would have assumed that by shutting off the daily updates that the guide data would need to be refreshed manually at some point as every day that goes by would decrease the number of days in the guide. Anybody else notice this?

Still wondering if replacing the box might fix this or if that is a waste of time since it is a software thing. I've got several friends with essentially the same config and they are not seeing the problem with their 942s.

Thanks,

Doug


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

dougmcbride said:


> I got a new DPP Twin installed by my retailer to replace the original - no difference, still needed to do the Check Switch daily after about 10:00am. I almost think this whole DCS (Daily Check Switch  ) started for me when we hooked up the 61.5 wing to get Voom (thought prompted by the post on disconnecting the 61.5 dish) and the DCS problem went away. However, I had only been a Dish customer for about 2 weeks at that point and was just getting the hang of the whole system, as well as L226 coming out about that time, so it's hard to say.
> 
> *I did shut off the daily updates and the problem went away*. I've noticed however, that I still have the 9 days of guide data as time goes by. What's up with that? I would have assumed that by shutting off the daily updates that the guide data would need to be refreshed manually at some point as every day that goes by would decrease the number of days in the guide. Anybody else notice this?
> 
> ...


Doug, I didn't understand your post. 
1) Are you saying that disconnecting the 61.5 dish fixes the check switch problem?
2) Did you try turning the daily updates ON with the 61.5 dish disconnected?
3) Also, just out of curiosity, how far apart are your 61.5 and 110/119 dishes?

I've been running very smoothly for a couple days now with the daily updates turned ON and the 61.5 dish disconnected.


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

mpeltz said:


> Doug, I didn't understand your post.
> 1) Are you saying that disconnecting the 61.5 dish fixes the check switch problem?
> 2) Did you try turning the daily updates ON with the 61.5 dish disconnected?
> 3) Also, just out of curiosity, how far apart are your 61.5 and 110/119 dishes?
> ...


Sorry if I was unclear - not enough coffee this morning... 

What "fixed" the problem was turning off daily updates. I noted in my post however, that I continue to get guide updates which in addition to software updates, was what I assumed the daily update provided to the receiver. I was wondering if anyone else that has turned off daily updates have seen their guide continue to update.

Based upon your previous posts, it occurred to me that this problem may have started when I had my 61.5 wing dish added, but I can't recall now. I did not disconnect the 61.5 dish and would prefer not to as I watch a bit of the Voom material.

I'd guess there is about a 40' cable run between the 61.5 dish and the DPP Twin, and then about 120' from the DPP Twin to the 942.

My retailer is willing to swap 942s if we know it will fix the problem which is why I was asking if anyone had been successful. I also think there is a barrel connector in the link and I'll bet it is just a regular one. I'll check out that route as well.

Thanks for all the info you've provided.

Doug


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

dougmcbride said:


> What "fixed" the problem was turning off daily updates. I noted in my post however, that I continue to get guide updates which in addition to software updates, was what I assumed the daily update provided to the receiver. I was wondering if anyone else that has turned off daily updates have seen their guide continue to update.


So, you're saying that if you turn daily updates off, you never have to perform a check switch? The only other function I can think of that prompts the receiver to retrieve guide updates is a check switch.

I'm jonesing for some VOOM, but disconnecting the 61.5 dish is only temporary. I plan to call Dish and have them try a DP+44 switch with the 61.5 and DPPTwin in lieu of a software fix. In fact, I'm not so convinced that the check switch problem is completely a software related problem. As you stated, there are other 942/L226 users with DPPTwin and 61.5 setups and they are not having the same problems.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

According to Mark this is a known bug, and "hopefully will be in the next update". I would suggest, you wait. Right now there is NO clear procedure to follow to get your guide updates. You try one thing one time and it works, then again it won't next time. When you think you have it down, guide disappears again. There is another post that addresses this issue "somewhat? " It's "942 OTA Guide was there"


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

dougmcbride said:


> Still wondering if replacing the box might fix this or if that is a waste of time since it is a software thing. I've got several friends with essentially the same config and they are not seeing the problem with their 942s.





mpeltz said:


> I'm jonesing for some VOOM, but disconnecting the 61.5 dish is only temporary. I plan to call Dish and have them try a DP+44 switch with the 61.5 and DPPTwin in lieu of a software fix. In fact, I'm not so convinced that the check switch problem is completely a software related problem. As you stated, there are other 942/L226 users with DPPTwin and 61.5 setups and they are not having the same problems.


Hey, a Dish technician called me back last night. She said that the *check switch problem with the DPP Twin should be fixed in the next release, due out at the end of the month*. However, since this is software, it's may take longer.

So, I'll guess I'll retract my hardware theory statement. Although, I am running much smoother now that the 61.5 dish is disconnected. I asked her about that and she said that by disconnecting the dish, I reduced the likelihood that the problem can occur. They are confident that this problem is software only. Just need to wait till the end of the month&#8230;are we there yet?


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## dougmcbride (Apr 17, 2005)

mpeltz said:


> So, you're saying that if you turn daily updates off, you never have to perform a check switch? The only other function I can think of that prompts the receiver to retrieve guide updates is a check switch.


Sorry for the delay in my replies - life is getting in the way... 

I have daily updates off and no longer have the problem of the daily "Acquiring Satellite/Check Switch" issue. I'm also seeing my guide data continue to be updated (and I've checked this pretty regularly) and it stays at a running 8 - 9 days as it did before I shut off the daily updates.

In any case, I'm glad this workaround exists, and it's great to hear that Dish acknowledges this as an issue. Thanks very much for the continued updates as you and others speak with Dish.

Doug


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Well I started having problems like ya'll did with a dishpro plus twin and a side sat to 61.5. I have had it installed like this since early in May. Both sat dishes are installed on the same pole , so there is no distance issue. Yesterday I noticed problems with the Voom channels dropping out and turning green and pixeling etc. Then it would say you have a problem with your multi switch. I ran a signal strength on the 61.5 sat and it had dropped from 95 to 59 . 

I changed out my diplexor and my dishpro seperator , since I had two extras, and then ran a check switch. I got no readings on tuner 1 and tuner 2 worked fine. On my 2nd 942 in the bedroom I got the same drop outs on the Voom channels , but the check switch worked fine. So I went back to the living room and unplugged both sat cables and ran a check switch without the satellite plugged in and then again with the sat cables reversed and plugged in and it worked. I also did a power cord reboot . Both tuners worked fine. 

I got problems last night at 11:15 pm and again today at 11:15 am , both when I was trying to record "Dawn of the Dead. " After rereading these posts I have disabled the automatic updates too. I am hoping this will fix the problems. I really like the Voom Monster channel. I would hate to keep missing my recordings because of the software problems.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

Something strange is going on today. I have had my updates disabled for about a week now and have had no problems. Today, each time I turned my receiver on the dreaded searching for satellite message came up. I did a power cord reset and checkswitch etc. and it worked OK until I turned the receiver off. The next time I turned it on aquiring sat signal again. After doing a checkswitch I looked at all the satellites and got good signal strength on all of them except the 61.5 signal would lock green then turn red then lock green again over and over. The temperature here today was mid 90's so I don't know if I have a temp sensitive LNB on the 61.5 dish or what.. If it keeps it up I may try a new lnb.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

RBenson said:


> After doing a checkswitch I looked at all the satellites and got good signal strength on all of them except the 61.5 signal would lock green then turn red then lock green again over and over. The temperature here today was mid 90's so I don't know if I have a temp sensitive LNB on the 61.5 dish or what.. If it keeps it up I may try a new lnb.


What was your signal strength on 61.5? Are there any trees near the dish? (Remember that dish look angle is offset, e.g., it looks higher than the 90 degree from dish that most people assume) I've seen installs too close to trees where the wind would blow branches in the way, causing the signal to fluctuate as you describe.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

My 61.5 sat dish doesn't look toward any trees what so ever and neither does my Dish 500 sat dish , and I still had the problem with the 61.5 sat signal varying wildly as I described above; 95-59. That is why the " you have trouble with your multi switch "sign came up on the screen. So far today no problems since I turned off the automatic updates on either 942. 

Knock on Wood....


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## QasDishGuy (Jul 23, 2005)

Just as a side note, all low frequency barrells are white in color, all high frequency barrells are colored (usually either blue or red)

On most equipment very few problems have arised from using low frequency barrells, however (and this is especially true for the 942) DPP Twins are very picky on what you use. There is also 2 types that I have seen and/or used myself. One is a lightweight version which seems extremely reliable, the other a heavier (at least a 1/3rd heavier) that has a row of screws going across the bottom portion of the LNB. Over average I'd say 1/3rd of these heavier DPP lnb's end up returned or replaced. 2 full lots of them have actually been recalled (I forget the lot number off the top of my head) due to a faulty heat sink, which will usually cause a "set" time of day failure (generally in the late evening when it is the hottest).

Also, and I have not come across this in any of the Dish documentation I have read (and I have read a lot) but in the field multidish switches operate 10x more effectively when placing port 1 to 119, and port 2 to 110. I believe this is directly associated to the way DisEQc technology works and the integrated heat sinks to distribute the heat. Ports 3 (and 4 with DPP 44) do not seem to be affected by this. 

Another note, is when using a DPP 44 Switch, avoid using the power inserter on a dual tuner receiver (like the 942/522/625/322). I have found some isolated but hard to repeat problems in this scenario. In these cases, simply running a blank line for the power inserter fixes the problem.

I'm probably not the end-all to every problem, but I'm sure willing to help anyone when and if I can. Hope this helps.


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## RBenson (Jan 25, 2003)

[There is also 2 types that I have seen and/or used myself. One is a lightweight version which seems extremely reliable, the other a heavier (at least a 1/3rd heavier) that has a row of screws going across the bottom portion of the LNB. Over average I'd say 1/3rd of these heavier DPP lnb's end up returned or replaced. 2 full lots of them have actually been recalled (I forget the lot number off the top of my head) due to a faulty heat sink, which will usually cause a "set" time of day failure (generally in the late evening when it is the hottest).]

QasDishGuy:

Would it be possible to find the lot numbers that are recalled? Also are you talking about the LNB's or a multiswitch? The LNB's are encased in a plastic cover. Do you have to remove the cover to see the row of screws? I have been having problems that I have wondered if they have been heat of day related.. Thanks for any help...


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## QasDishGuy (Jul 23, 2005)

The row of screws would be visible if you removed the twin on the bottom portion of the twin, in addition if you are familiar at all with Dish Twins, it is extremely heavy (even heavier than a Quad).

I looked today in my email and was unable to find the recall notice, There were 2 lot numbers recalled and 4 affected. They are T-501 to T-504. I *think* 501 and 503 were recalled but I simply can not remember. If your dish was installed prior to June you should not be affected, as we didn't start seeing those lots until then, and I haven't seen another DPP twin shipped to us like those since the recall. It's hard to tell the exact lot # from the twin, but if I am remembering correctly you should be able to view the 5xx number on the bottom right hand side if your looking from the dish to the lnb.Bottom line is if your DPP twin has that row of screws and your having difficulties request it be replaced. 

The original high definition dual tuners release specifically stated not to use seperator's with them, though we always have with very few problems. Tell me the exact problem you are having and I'll be glad to help in whatever way that I can. (Also there is a significant difference between a seperator and a splitter, and I have seen a few retailers using splitters that caused problems - you can tell which was used simply by reading the "splitter" looking device protuding from your SAT in ports.)

And of course, follow all safety precautions, saving a few dollars or a few days by doing things yourself doesn't mean do it recklessly!


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

QasDishGuy said:


> Just as a side note, all low frequency barrells are white in color, all high frequency barrells are colored (usually either blue or red)
> 
> On most equipment very few problems have arised from using low frequency barrells, however (and this is especially true for the 942) DPP Twins are very picky on what you use. There is also 2 types that I have seen and/or used myself. One is a lightweight version which seems extremely reliable, the other a heavier (at least a 1/3rd heavier) that has a row of screws going across the bottom portion of the LNB. Over average I'd say 1/3rd of these heavier DPP lnb's end up returned or replaced. 2 full lots of them have actually been recalled (I forget the lot number off the top of my head) due to a faulty heat sink, which will usually cause a "set" time of day failure (generally in the late evening when it is the hottest).
> 
> ...


I'm running into a problem with a DPPTwin/942 setup where every once on a while I'll receive a check switch message during the late afternoon. You can't make the problem happen on demand. When it happens, it only ever occurs during the late afternoon, when it's hot and humid, and the sky is clear (no clouds). This doesn't seem to occur on overcast, rainy, cooler days, or at night.

Do you think that replacing my lnb will make a difference?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

If you have a DPP Twin, you most likely don't have a switch. Sounds to me like your LNB is failing.


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## vahighland (Mar 29, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you have a DPP Twin, you most likely don't have a switch. Sounds to me like your LNB is failing.


Oops, I meant lnb, not switch. I realize that the switch is actually built into the DPPTwin LNB.


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