# Problem with DPP44 Switch??



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I've had my 1000 Plus reflector and DPP44 switch installed for a little over a week right now. This weekend, I started having problems with my 522 DVR. About three times this weekend, I would get a "Check Switch Error". When I ran the check switch test, instead of doing a 4 step test on both tuners, it would do a 38 step test on tuner 1, then show nothing. This morning when I turned on one of the TVs hooked up to this receiver, I was able to watch some channels, but not all. When I checked the switch it showed green for 110 on tuner 1, no other sats for tuner 1, and no sats for tuner 2. I re-ran the check switch and got all 4 sats (110. 118. 119. 129) for both tuners. We'll see if I still have service when I get home this afternoon.

While I was experiencing all of these problems with the 522 DVR, the ViP622 hooked up to my HDTV never had any problems. It worked flawlessly, never lost singal or picture.

Does this sound like a problem with the switch?? Or a problem with my 522 DVR Receiver?? 

I believe I'm renting the 522 from DISH, if it is the receiver having problems will they upgrade the equipment to the new 625? if so, what's that going to cost me??


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

I would check the wire and connectins from switch to the 522 first. I had that and found problem myself.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

garys said:


> I would check the wire and connectins from switch to the 522 first. I had that and found problem myself.


It does sound like a connection problem as the affected receiver is doing the legacy check (power problem). If not that I wonder if the power inserter has a loose connection or if it may be unplugged from the AC?


----------



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Something else to check would be the Dish Pro Plus Seperator as well, if your using one. I've seen this in the past myself and it's always been a bad connection. I've also heard from other users of the seperator going back. Usually it's not the switch. It could be, but it's probably the least likely culprit.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Thanks everyone! I can check the connections at the receiver and switch easily - in fact I'll be doing that right now. I'll post later if the problems continue.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

boylehome said:


> It does sound like a connection problem as the affected receiver is doing the legacy check (power problem). If not that I wonder if the power inserter has a loose connection or if it may be unplugged from the AC?


So after a few days of everything working fine, my 522 flipped out last night again. I got the "Check Switch" errors, the 38 step test, only picking up 119 on one tuner, no locals, etc., etc. As was suggested I have checked every connection associated with that receiver - everything is tight. So here's my question now -

As is quoted above, apparently the older legacy 522 machine requires the power insert more than the newer ViP622. The installer put the inserter in the system behind my ViP622 - her reasoning was that was the furthest point from the switch - didn't make sense to me I would want it as close as possible to the switch fearing power bleed but she was the installer . . . Would it make more sense to move the inserter from behind my ViP622 (in my living room and furthest point from the switch) to behind my 522 (in the basement and much closer to the switch). Any thoughts / suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm close to calling DISH back and requesting yet another service call associated with this 1000+ install.


----------



## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

The power inserter needs to be on port one of the switch. Make sure that's where it's at.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

ssmith10pn said:


> The power inserter needs to be on port one of the switch. Make sure that's where it's at.


I'm assuming the installer was smart enough to make sure that happened . . . how would I check now to make sure the inserter is hooked up to port 1 on the switch?? Is there a light or indicator on the switch to show that it is being powered correctly??

*IF* I moved the inserter behind my 522, then I would flip the switch ports. Port 1 would be going to the 522 then, port 2 would be going to the ViP622.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I just spent about 20 minutes on the phone with Dish Tech Support concerning these problems this morning. They had me rerun the Check Switch, power off the unit, unplug the unit, disconnect / reconnect all of the wires. At the end of all of this the unit was still not working - just a black screen no picture. The Tech finally says "That 522 is defective, we'll replace the receiver." I tell her everything was fine with it until they installed the 1000+ dish, but she insisted that the unit is defective and needs to be replaced. They are sending one out today via UPS Ground - I should have it Monday or Tuesday she said.

Seems odd to me that they install this new switch and suddenly there are problems, but if they want to replace the receiver that's their business.


----------



## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

Was this a new connect or was the Dish 1000+ an upgrade?

Did you have the Dish 1000+ installed at the same time as the 622? If so, did you relocate the 522 to a different room? 

Generally, if it was a switch or power inserter problem, you would see it on both receivers. As others have suggested, it really does sound like a cable or connection problem.

Dish CSRs like to send out replacement receivers. I've rolled on many a service call to find a new receiver just inside the customer's front door and a clueless customer as what to do next. I'll fix the real problem (usually by changing a barrel/connector or LNB) and then ask the customer what they want to do now. Use the new receiver or keep the perfectly fine old one that still has their recorded shows on the DVR.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you will find that the new 522 works great for 'a little over a week'.

Good luck and keep us informed.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

chainblu said:


> Was this a new connect or was the Dish 1000+ an upgrade?
> 
> Did you have the Dish 1000+ installed at the same time as the 622? If so, did you relocate the 522 to a different room?
> 
> ...


I've been a DISH Customer for over 2 years now. I started with a 942 in my living room hooked to my HDTV and a 522 in my basement. I replaced the 942 with a ViP622 in April for the added HD content (MPEG4 requirement). I had a 1000+ reflector and a DPP44 switch upgrade this month when DISH put the Detroit HD Locals on the 118.7 Sat.

The 522 has never been moved, it has always been located in my basement, behind my bar. It has worked flawlessly for 2 + years, and has only become problematic since the 1000+ and DPP44 switch were installed. The ViP622 has not had any problems since the reflector / switch upgrade.

I have the tool for installing the compression barrel connectors. Where would you suggest I start replacing connectors? At the receiver, the splittler, the ground block or the switch??


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

So now here's what I've done this afternoon -

1) I took the Power Inserter out from behind my ViP622
2) Went outside to the switch and swapped the cables going into Port 1 and Port 2
3) When I took the cable off of Port 2 (this should have been the line running to the 522 DVR), the connector did not look like it was crimped correctly, and the nut did not rotate correctly so I replaced the connector with one of the compression connectors I had. I reconnected the cables so that Port 1 was now in Port 2 and vice versa. So the 522 is now connected to Port 1 on the switch, the ViP622 is connected to Port 2.
4) I went in the House, and ran CHECK SWITCH on both receivers WITHOUT the power inserter connected. Both receivers recognized the DPP44 switch and found all 4 Satellites.

Does anyone know if it's possible to run the switch without the power inserter? 

What is the purpose of the power inserter? The switch obviously runs without it, so what is it's purpose?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sNEIRBO said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to run the switch without the power inserter?
> 
> What is the purpose of the power inserter? The switch obviously runs without it, so what is it's purpose?


I ran my DPP44 without a power inserter when I first installed it but eventually it stopped finding all satellites. If you don't have a power inserter you are relying on the receivers to power the switch and keep it running. Sometimes the receivers don't put out enough power (especially on long runs) to power four LNBs and the switch.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

James Long said:


> I ran my DPP44 without a power inserter when I first installed it but eventually it stopped finding all satellites. If you don't have a power inserter you are relying on the receivers to power the switch and keep it running. Sometimes the receivers don't put out enough power (especially on long runs) to power four LNBs and the switch.


That makes sense . . . when I hooked up the 522 to Port 1 on the switch, I got a couple of arcs between the co-ax copper and the threads on the port. The 522 is only about a 10 foot co-ax run away from the switch - probably close enough to power the switch and LNBs then. I'll put the power inserter in place behind the 522 just in case though.

I guess I need to call DISH back and cancel the replacement receiver . . .

Thanks again to everyone for the help / suggestions.


----------



## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

I can really sympathize with you. I've had problems with my DPP44 switch continuously since it was installed back in January. I've had four service calls.

Tech support is extremely frustrating because they read from a script and use very little logic to troubleshoot problems. They tried to send a replacement receiver to me under the same circumstances and I had to *prove* to them that it wasn't the receiver by swapping two receivers and showing that the problem didn't follow the receiver, but stayed at the same connection.

So, here we are, Sunday morning, and the switch is out again. This time, none of my three receivers can detect any of my four satellites. What does tech support do? She has me look at the switch setup and tells me that the switch is fine because everything looks correct. I uncerimoniously inform her that, unless the receiver has rebooted or a switch check has been run, the receiver retains the previous settings and will show the switch being there even if it isn't anymore. I run the check switch on all three receivers and it then shows (correctly) that they do not detect a switch at all. What does she do? She SCOLDS me! She says "sir, you should never run a switch check if you're not detecting any satellites - you could damage your receiver". At that point, I asked for a supervisor...

The only thing I could try was to reboot the switch. I tried that twice and it didn't have any effect.

The tech is coming out Wednesday...hopefully, they will finally replace it. They're waiving the $49 charge.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Bad customer service with E* is starting to become a common theme in a lot of these threads. I love my DISH Network service, but they better learn in a hurry that a good product and a good price point will draw customers in, but POOR customer service will drive them away!!

Skates - Good luck with your service call, make sure you let us know what happens. 

As you may have noticed it looks like I fixed my own problems thanks to the help / info provided by the members of this forum. If you can get to your switch, you might be able to save yourself some aggrevation and fix the problem yourself. Just don't tell the customer service rep, she'll probably scold you again!


----------



## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Unfortunately, I can't get to the switch, so I'm at their mercy this time. I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out.

Update - Monday, 4:30 PM PDT

Well, here we go again...the switch reappeared in perfect working order at around 2:30 PM as if nothing had ever happened - then went down again about two hours later.

I'm going to do what I can to get them to replace the switch. I don't know what else could be the problem. On previous service calls, they already redid all of the connectors.


----------



## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Well, my service call just finished. He just went ahead and replaced the switch and everything came back up. Hopefully, this will put an end to all the problems I've had.

These techs amuse me. I asked him if he would please just wait until we'd run a switch check on all three receivers and verified that they were seeing all the birds and that all my OTA stuff was working. Instead, after having me sign the work order, he snuck out and disappeared, not even leaving me a copy...


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hint: Don't sign the work order until you're done with him.


----------



## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

What can I say? I was operating on trust.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

DISH delivered a new 522 to me yesterday to replace mine after I had called them back on Friday to tell them that I had fixed the problem with the switch. I called when I got the receiver yesterday and asked them what they wanted me to do. The customer service rep said that they needed MY receiver back, NOT the one they sent me, and if I didn't return MY receiver they would charge me for the shipping and possibly a restocking fee for the receiver. So, I swapped the receivers. I guess I'm better off with a new receiver . . . just a pain in the butt losing all of those episodes of Futurama my daughter liked and having to re-enter all of the timers.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Guess what's reared it's ugly head again - the CHECK SWITCH error message on the 522 receiver. Yesterday morning and again this morning. I run the check switch, I get the 38 step test, then only get 119 sat (sometimes on 1 tuner, sometimes both). I called DISH, they're sending out a Tech this afternoon to check it out.

Not sure where the problem is here -

Last weekend I moved the power inserter behind the 522 and switched the port for the receivers out on the switch. If the problem was the switch, I would have thought the problem would have followed the port. Meaning that I should be having issues with my 622 since that is now on the original port the 522 was on. Since the 622 has be operating flawlessly, I would say this eliminates the 1000+ dish, the LNBs, the outdoor ground blocks, the switch and any connections outside of the house . . . right?

DISH sent a new receiver to replace the old receiver. That should eliminate the receiver as the problem . . . right?

That leaves - the DPP splitter, the power inserter, cables, and a second ground block that is between the switch and the DPP splitter.

We'll see what the Tech comes up with this afternoon.


----------



## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

humm.. I had the same kind of problem but a sw64.. I checked.. 18v out of the "wall wart"... 18v out to the switch... <3v on the out side of the sw... called CS... gave the rep all I had done.. they did not even try to go through the script.. just sent me a new sw.. all was better.. and they wanted that sw back.. 

check Volts on the back side of the sw.. (out to lnb's) make sure it has the right Volts... 

just a thought...


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I had an appointment for noon to 5pm yesterday afternoon. At 4:30 DISH calls me to tell me their "running late" and should be here no later than 7:30pm. I told them that was unacceptable, I had plans for the evening and I was not going to waste another 2.5 hours (50% of the original window) waiting for them. The earliest we could work out our schedules was Thursday AM (8am - noon). That means 10 days out of this month, 1/2 of my Satellite system will not be working. 

I sure am glad I'm paying almost $120 per month for this!


----------



## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Bashing CSRs and tech support staff won't fix anything. My recent experience with one of E*'s CSRs was very positive and professional. Last time I had someone out to do any installation work, they did a great job as well. Nobody provides perfect customer service but I think E*'s is on par with any of the other large service providers that work in a very cost competitive market. Low price, quality product, good consistent customer service: you can only have 2 out of 3.

John


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

JM Anthony said:


> Bashing CSRs and tech support staff won't fix anything. My recent experience with one of E*'s CSRs was very positive and professional. Last time I had someone out to do any installation work, they did a great job as well. Nobody provides perfect customer service but I think E*'s is on par with any of the other large service providers that work in a very cost competitive market. Low price, quality product, good consistent customer service: you can only have 2 out of 3.
> 
> John


I guess Dell, Apple, Toyota and Sirius are lousy business models for providing 3 out of 3.

A quality product with an appropriate price point will bring in a lot of customers, inoperable equipment and poor customer service will make them start looking elsewhere.

I LOVE my DISH HD Service, but the inability to watch any of my other TVs in the house is infuriating and unacceptable to me. I am not paying $120 per month for service on 1 TV, I'm paying for service on 3 TVs. Right now, DISH is not providing that service on "2 out of 3" of my TVs.

DISH HD subscribers pay a premium price for a premium product, we should be receiving premium service. To expect less is ridiculous!


----------



## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

sNEIRBO said:


> I guess Dell, Apple, Toyota and Sirius are lousy business models for providing 3 out of 3.
> 
> A quality product with an appropriate price point will bring in a lot of customers, inoperable equipment and poor customer service will make them start looking elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Dell's customer service is hit or miss. I've dealt with tech support staff who were like robots. One of them was ready to have me reformat my hard drive and all the time/hassle associated with that when a Windows repair job did the trick.

Apple has nice stuff, but inexpensive isn't an adjective I'd associate with any of it.

While it's been a while, I don't remember any real premium price associated with E* over D* and last time I looked, they were cheaper (and had a better product) than say Comcast.

Be persistent with E* until they get your problem fixed. See if you can get some credit for the problems you've had. But if you really think you're getting a bum deal, take your business elsewhere.

John


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

JM Anthony said:


> Dell's customer service is hit or miss.


Sounds like the same point I was making about E* service - hit or miss. You had a good experience with E*, mine not so much. I've always had excellent service from Dell, yours not so much.

Now let me drive the _hit or miss_ point home -

I think *I* fixed the problems last night. Due to the suggestions of the people of this forum and several PMs I've received also providing appropriate troubleshooting ideas, last night I spent a few hours tracking lines through finished walls, ceilings, etc. tracking all of the connection points between the LNB and my 522 receiver. Last weekend I found 1 bad connector on the switch - it literally fell off in my hand when I went to take it off of the switch. Last night I found 2 more - on both sides of a ground block in the basement. I took the connector off of the ground block, and pulled on the connectors and they popped off with very little force required. It looked like none of the 3 had been crimped by the DISH Installer when they installed the 1000+ dish earlier this month. The connectors also looked like they had not been seated correctly - not enough copper wire showing. I had tightened the connectors on that ground block when I first started having problems, but I hadn't taken them off to check to make sure they were installed correctly. I replaced their crimp connectors with my compression connectors. After a Check Switch I got the 522 to recognize the switch and all 4 sats - for the first time in 4 days. This morning all was still working with the 522, I'm hopeful *I've* fixed the problems.

Here's my question now - should I cancel the appointment for tomorrow morning? Does an uncrimped, improperly seated connector sound like a possible cause of the problems I was having?


----------



## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

sNEIRBO said:


> Does an uncrimped, improperly seated connector sound like a possible cause of the problems I was having?


Possible? Absolutely! 
Any connection that will allow any moisture inside would cause the kind of problems you are having.

Have these fittings been in your system all along or were they put in by the last tech?


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

chainblu said:


> Possible? Absolutely!
> Any connection that will allow any moisture inside would cause the kind of problems you are having.
> 
> Have these fittings been in your system all along or were they put in by the last tech?


These fittings were installed during the 1000+ upgrade, and that's when the issues started with the 522 receiver. I have now had uninterrupted service on the 522 for a day and a half, the longest time since the 1000+ upgrade. I think I have the problem fixed.

I called DISH last night to ask if they thought this was the problem. Tech Support said "possibly" but also said that since the receiver was now working correctly, they thought I had solved the issue myself. The Tech last night was VERY helpful. She cancelled the appointment for day, and credited $40 to my account for the downtime on the 522 receiver. She said she thought she should do more since I solved the problems, but she didn't think E* would approve anymore than a $40 credit.

Thanks again for all the helpful posts and PMs!


----------

