# P363 is out for 501, 508, 510



## manicd (Jan 30, 2003)

Released 3 Oct 2006 according to Dish website at:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp

It has been downloaded to one of my 501s, and my 510.

Could not see any difference on the 501 or 510. No NBR, No Weather Channel update in Dish Home. All the timers and programs still there.

I am assuming that is is a bug fix.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Hopefully, this one will fix the timer firing problems that some users were having with the previous version.

NBR is coming, just not quite ready yet.


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## DanPFW (Sep 12, 2005)

NBR, what was that again?? Is that the feature where you find a program, and the receiver records every occurance of it, no matter what channel or time?

If so, I think we were promised that feature back when I bought these receivers some 6 years ago?! I remember it was suppose to be ready by some super bowl, perhaps it was SuperBowl L?


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## Velda2 (Jun 29, 2004)

NBR was Name Based Recording and we will never see it. We were lied to and strung along by Charlie.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Excuse me...you'll see it.


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## manicd (Jan 30, 2003)

Boy, they rolled this one out fast it seems. I just got it on my other 501. Normally it takes up to 2-3 weeks to get it on all my recievers.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Mark..I don't doubt you but...I bought 3 dvrs when the promise first came out several years ago. After waiting 2 years, I switched to D* with Tivo. IMO, it was the best move I've made on programming choices in years. I think it is an incredible insult that the CEO can promote the fact that it was coming shortly and never truthfully address the fact that they were not going to produce it any time soon. Since that promise, we saw the 942, 522, 622, 625 come out with NBR. Why couldn't they have devoted some effort to Charlie's statement and give the fans what they wanted? Dish lost me as a customer for this very reason. I paid well over 120/month for service and now pay the same price to D*.

With my Tivos, I was able to buy a couple of CDs online to hack the boxes. Now, I have an HD Tivo with 2 OTA tuners (625 has only one) and 4 networked SD Tivos. I can share videos between boxes, download programs to my PC, convert them into files I can play from an SD card on my cell phone or burn them to DVD (not a proprietary setup like Dish), stream music from my PC and never have to reboot the boxes because of bugs.

I wish all you Dish fans the best, but for me...DirecTV / Tivo is, by far, the best for home entertainment (Voom repeats aside...)

Look at this post with the belief NBR would be installed on the 5xx series by summer '04 then more speculation of it coming by fall '04. It's now fall '06. Fool me one year shame on you...Fool me two years..shame on me.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=31261&highlight=nbr+5xx

This post from 8/10/04 - - -

Late fall is what I read on the forum, unless it gets delayed.

That's late fall '04!!!!! What a fricken' joke !!!!

What could POSSIBLY cause a two/three year delay on a software enhancement?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> I think it is an incredible insult that the CEO can promote the fact that it was coming shortly and never truthfully address the fact that they were not going to produce it any time soon. Since that promise, we saw the 942, 522, 622, 625 come out with NBR. Why couldn't they have devoted some effort to Charlie's statement and give the fans what they wanted?


The mistake was being too optimistic and sharing that optimism. To say that 'they were not going to produce it any time soon' could infer that they didn't plan on having the feature. They wanted it - they just probably should not have mentioned it until it was closer.


MikeW said:


> What could POSSIBLY cause a two/three year delay on a software enhancement?


Perhaps not understanding the complexity of taking an old UI and making it work with such a complicated feature in the space given. E* can send software to a receiver - they can't send hardware via satellite.


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## ieee1394 (Apr 7, 2006)

510 with NBR???? What a joke. No, make that an insult. As pointed out above this promise has been extended over and over and over again. I'm not holding my breath any longer and have been contemplating an upgrade to a 622. Not for the overly compressed HD accompanied by a still pathetic line up of HD content...NOPE! I want/need NBR. 

The 510 totally changed the way I watched tv. In fact, I'd have to say it stopped me from cancelling the service initially because quite frankly, there's nothing EVER on when I have time to watch...so why bother with service, right? Well, all was well in good at the beginning but then the networks started getting into this craziness of jumbling up their schedules every few weeks. You could rarely count on a program being on at the same time from one week to the next. Wasn't like that in the old days... What this basically means is that the 510's ancient VCR-like scheduling capability is pretty much useless; I see this problem every week as I try to record my daughter's favorite shows.

But what bugs me is that I don't see the fairness in having to pay E* $199 for the privilege to lease new equipment just so I can make the service useful; new equipment that I will be stuck with for the next two years as it too becomes useless and then I'll get to pay what to upgrade? Will it be $299 the next time around?

It would be much better if E* just came right out and said, look, if you want NBR then stop waiting for us to upgrade the 510 since we have no clue really as to when that might be available if ever. What exactly is the point in promising something (repeatedly) and then failing to deliver it (repeatedly). All it serves is really annoy us.  

If only they made a cablecard like device for satellite tv. Then we could all just get Tivos and be done with it.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

NBR for the 510 is coming...repeat after me...NBR for the 510 is coming...sheesh

And pathetic line up of HD content? It's a hell of a lot more extensive than any other provider out there...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> NBR for the 510 is coming...repeat after me...NBR for the 510 is coming...


OK ... "NBR for the 510 is coming..."

(Well you said to repeat after you ...  )

Seriously folks ... this isn't a rumor and we wish we knew when ... but the 501/508/510 will be seeing name based recording. It is just a matter of time.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

NBR for the 510 will be ready Wednesday. We just don't know _which_ Wednesday.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

James Long said:


> Perhaps not understanding the complexity of taking an old UI and making it work with such a complicated feature in the space given. E* can send software to a receiver - they can't send hardware via satellite.


Perhaps, but ... Who better to judge the complexities than the company who produced the boxes and wrote the software. It is UNFORGIVABLE that this company publicly stated, almost 3 years ago, that this feature was coming in the short term. If it couldn't have been done in say... 6 months, then don't say anything publicly about it coming. As I said, they built several completely new boxes and upgraded several others while ignoring the 5xx users. It cost them me as a customer and hopefully...many others.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is easy to underestimate a job. An engineer says, "yeah - we should be able to do that" and the next thing you know someone announces the feature as if it is trivial. It happened to me two weeks ago ... I gave my boss a status report on a project I've been working on for a couple of months (and still have about a month to go to get to 100%) and the next thing I know I'm reading an email to all staff telling them the project was done! Then I field all the "this doesn't work right" calls and spend a portion of my vacation doing manual updates to keep it working.

It was a mistake made three years ago ... I've forgiven Charlie/E*. Since you left E* in January you are no longer waiting. But, believe it or not, E* was working on it before then.

New boxes have new hardware ... 501's are 2001 technology. No older unit has NBR - the oldest unit currently with NBR is 2003 technology. As noted before, you can't download hardware via satellite. So when NBR is released on the 501/508/510 please be properly amazed. Thanks in advance.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

My SA Tivo series 1 comes with 1999 technology. It still works. Not only did Charlie open his mouth 3 years ago, there have been a few other times he publicly stated it was coming soon. I don't doubt it will come, I just think that it should have happened long ago. It's fine that you support E* and Charlie. I simply chose to get NBR now instead of waiting it out. I don't think E* deserves a huge round of applause or gratitude when it comes out. They strung their customers along way too long.

I never expected them to send hardware via sat. I would think the engineers would know that they couldn't produce the software and maybe even clue the CEO into the fact it couldn't be done in the time-frame he suggested to his customers.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

JL, the argument with HW "download" doesn't applicable in the NBR feature development. I think you knew it and used as a decoy. Please, don't backup Dish in this manner.
It doesn't work.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> My SA Tivo series 1 comes with 1999 technology. It still works.


It was likely better than the 501 in 2001 as well. 
Some people still insist that Tivo is better than E* DVRs.


MikeW said:


> I would think the engineers would know that they couldn't produce the software and maybe even clue the CEO into the fact it couldn't be done in the time-frame he suggested to his customers.


Perhaps if someone would have shouted from the peanut gallery during the chat? It has been done on some errors ... but I'm not sure this was seen as an error at the time ... just overconfidence.

Anyways - NBR is coming ... not in P363 (sorry) ...


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Do you truly believe a Charlie Chat is a complete improv? Do you believe that nobody has to approve the script that Charlie reads? As I said...It shouldn't have been told to the customers that it was coming soon. You and I could go round and round. I think Charlie did his customers a dis-service by lying to them about the time-frame for NBR and you simply believe that Charlie and his gang can do no wrong.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You have your opinion - I'm not going to change that. But there are enough glitches on the chats that there is no way that you can say that everything Charlie says is according to "script". I don't see it as an intentional lie - the derogatory term you choose.

I'm sure they have their talking points - probably now more than in the past so they don't get caught up in errors. Better planning has cost us the "fun" of getting a shout out in or lying to call screeners to ask a different question - but the reward is better answers to what they do talk about.

They can do wrong - they are human beings. I just choose not to wallow in disgust over a mistake.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I'm not wallowing. I'm completely satisfied with my new setup. I have features available to me now that many techies would drool over and that cannot be done on an E* box. I'm simply saying that it wasn't an honest mistake or goof. Charlie kept the donut hanging for quite a while and I sat there innocently waiting to get a bite. Over the two years that I waited, I also paid his company $120/month for service via the preferred "AutoPay". Dish Network received $2880 in revenue from me because I kept believing I'd have NBR. Instead of buying additional Dish boxes, I could have spent it switching over to D*. 

Charlie shouldn't be able to state something in a broadcast to his customers and not be held to the fire if he and his company don't come through. Although a human being, when you are a CEO making a broadcast statement that your company is going to provide x within a certain time frame, you should be accountable for that statement.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

P Smith said:


> JL, the argument with HW "download" doesn't applicable in the NBR feature development. I think you knew it and used as a decoy. Please, don't backup Dish in this manner.
> It doesn't work.


You are wrong on this one, P Smith. The 50x receivers don't have nearly the processing power or memory that the newer receivers have, so there undoubtably are several things in the NBR implementation that work just fine on the newer receivers that have to be done differently to get them to work on the older receivers with the limited processors.

Very much like trying to run Windows XP or Vista on an old Intel Pentium system with 4 MB of RAM. Could probably be done, but only after rewiting chunks of the code.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"Could probably be done, but only after rewiting chunks of the code." - exactly ! JL wasn't clear .
As to a power of the STB, well, do you have some numbers to say ? OK, let me rephrase the question - did Dish provide to you some real tech data or just the buzz ?


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Guys, Mark is correct. NBR for the 50x series is VERY real and will be hitting your DVR soon. Just hang tight for a little while longer.


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## ieee1394 (Apr 7, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> NBR for the 510 is coming...repeat after me...NBR for the 510 is coming...sheesh
> 
> And pathetic line up of HD content? It's a hell of a lot more extensive than any other provider out there...


Given the obstacles in squeezing NBR into the older hardware I would still say, NBR for the 510 should never have been promised. Someone should have just said, "Look, the hardware isn't up to it." Now we have to be concerned that the implementation will not meet expectations because of the hardware's limited capability. I think engineering time would have been better spent enabling the Ethernet port on newer hardware (you know, for that small segment of the population that has that Internet thing).

As for the HD content, I totally agree that E* has way more than anyone else. But it's still pathetic. And then to take that limited content and compress the [email protected]#%! out of it just to squeeze a kabillion feeds of nonsense onto already limited satellite capacity.... I will gladly pay $20/mth for 15 uncompressed HD channels that are worth watching.

Talking about HD, I just hope that the hard drive expansion capability does in fact make it to the 622 at some point. 25 hours isn't very much recording time. If only WE (the users) could choose how much space to assign to SD vs HD. But I totally digress.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Chris Blount said:


> Guys, Mark is correct. NBR for the 50x series is VERY real and will be hitting your DVR soon. Just hang tight for a little while longer.


Glad, thats JL "excuse" eliminated.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MikeW said:


> Perhaps, but ... Who better to judge the complexities than the company who produced the boxes and wrote the software. It is UNFORGIVABLE that this company publicly stated, almost 3 years ago, that this feature was coming in the short term.


It is no less forgiveable that Rupert Murdoch recently said that DirecTV would have the means to deliver 100 HD channels by year end 2006. It is unforgiveable that they are pushing people into the R15 which is as hinky as they get and that they have released the remarkably untested HR20 without OTA, Ethernet and USB capability after saying that it would be available in Q2 2006.

You could also compare the claims that DirecTV2Go would be similar to TiVo2Go when in fact, it will be more like PocketDish. Where's that central distribution unit that they touted at CES 21 months ago? Do you have the 6.3a software yet on your HR10?

At least DirecTV no longer claims to be the HD leader.

Everybody makes mistakes and not providing NBR for the 5xx series DVRs is a mistake. Another brain cramp (soon to be repeated by DirecTV) is the VOD feature. Both companies need to pick a feature that they can honestly compete with terrestrial services on.

I have two personal major beefs with Dish Network:

1. That my 508 is "active" a substantial portion of the time (it used to be the ideal bedroom DVR).
2. 129W

My beefs with DirecTV:

1. They just recently turned up only two HD LIL channels in my DMA (#23)
2. They have relatively little HD and all of the 1080i content is scaled
3. They have established themselves as promising a whole lot more than they can deliver and they do so on a timetable that even the outside observer can tell they won't be able to meet.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Crazy thought ... could the delay in implementing NBR be somehow tied to having to do it in a way that doesn't infringe TiVo's patents? That would be an easy explanation why it might have been almost ready, then suddenly a couple of years away.

The other easy explanation is that Charlie misheard some talk or misread an engineering report before his fateful Chat. He really doesn't seem like the kind of guy to pull a crazy date out of the air. But I suppose anything's possible.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You know, I'm not Charlie, but in similar cases, I did and would tell ppl - sorry, it was planned, but for now we decied do not spend our time and effort to persuit the feature for the models. 
Done. 
And no more frustration, complains, etc.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

P Smith said:


> You know, I'm not Charlie, but in similar cases, I did and would tell ppl - sorry, it was planned, but for now we decied do not spend our time and effort to persuit the feature for the models.
> Done.
> And no more frustration, complains, etc.


I'd rather them do this that shove out NBR onto a platform that really doesn't have the horsepower to support it. I'm am concerned that NBR will turn the 5xx series into a basket case.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> I'm not wallowing. I'm completely satisfied with my new setup.


Good. I made the opposite decision (stay with E*) and I'm satisfied. BTW: I'd bet that the new setup you got in January wasn't entirely a system that was available in January 2001 - just like a new subscriber to E* in January 2006 would have got a better receiver than the 501, if they wanted it.


MikeW said:


> I'm simply saying that it wasn't an honest mistake or goof.


And that is the major point of disagreement. You add malice.


MikeW said:


> Dish Network received $2880 in revenue from me because I kept believing I'd have NBR. Instead of buying additional Dish boxes, I could have spent it switching over to D*.


That was always your choice - and I'm sure that $120 per month included the programming you were watching. It isn't like you paid $2880 for NBR ... Which would have been easily available if you just bought a 522/625.


P Smith said:


> OK, let me rephrase the question - did Dish provide to you some real tech data or just the buzz ?


Since they didn't say "pass this on" when providing what they did don't expect a better response to the question than "it was more than buzz". 


P Smith said:


> You know, I'm not Charlie, but in similar cases, I did and would tell ppl - sorry, it was planned, but for now we decied do not spend our time and effort to persuit the feature for the models.


Yet that would be another lie. They DID say on a chat that VOD was more important (to them) than NBR and would be implemented first - but E* has never given up on NBR for the 501/508/510. (VOD was likely easier ... especially since the 508 and 510 were designed for VOD before they were shipped.)


jrbdmb said:


> I'd rather them do this that shove out NBR onto a platform that really doesn't have the horsepower to support it. I'm am concerned that NBR will turn the 5xx series into a basket case.


IIRC, about a year ago E* told us that NBR was in the early stages of testing on the 501/508/510. Hopefully this year of testing and further development will prevent any problems with introducing NBR to customers.


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## ieee1394 (Apr 7, 2006)

James Long said:


> They DID say on a chat that VOD was more important (to them) than NBR and would be implemented first - but E* has never given up on NBR for the 501/508/510.


What a ridiculous thing to say. VOD is a bit of a joke too, isn't it? For anyone that's followed VOD trials for the past 10 or so years, the VOD that is being pushed by E* isn't anything like the real thing. Real VOD is about being to order _whatever you want_ and being able to watch it right away. E*'s VOD is about settling for one of the 4 or 5 programs that they have pushed to your hard drive... Not quite the same thing. But what's worse is that they tie up storage space that the user could use for something else given the option to do so.

I just fail to see the point in offering these half-baked products: a DVR that is pretty much useless without NBR, HD that's compressed, and video on demand that provides programming that has been pre-selected by the provider. Who exactly is this equipment for: E* or the consumer? Because it looks to me that E* is more interested in providing what _they_ want than what we want. (And you can insert any other satellite or cable provider in place of E*).


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Wow JL...the hits never stop coming with you.

1) Where the heck did you pull Jan 2001 from??? We're talking about the statement from January 2003 when DirecTV already had Tivo.

2) The malice wasn't in the intial statement. The malice was in not retracting the statement when they realized they couldn't do it at the time.

3) I never insinuated that the $2880 was the price to pay for NBR. I said that they received $2880 in REVENUE from me because I felt strongly about NBR and waited longer than I should have waiting for the upgrade that, to date, hasn't happened. 

I feel like I've got to be a politician and choose my words carefully everytime I post in a topic that includes you.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The 501 was released in January 2001 ... future improvements were in hard drive size, but even if they made other improvements you have to remember that NBR for a 501/508/510 needs to work on the January 2001 released 501.

Every time you call E* liars you add the malice. If you were to refer to it as an error instead of a lie then I'll drop the charge of you adding malice to their comments.

And you got years of television service for $2880. Your earlier post made it sound like you were paying for NBR. Don't do that - it isn't true. Your hope that they would get NBR may have encouraged you to stay, but you got what you paid for - television service.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

James Long said:


> And you got years of television service for $2880. Your earlier post made it sound like you were paying for NBR. Don't do that - it isn't true. Your hope that they would get NBR may have encouraged you to stay, but you got what you paid for - television service.


What do you mean Don't do that??????

What I said - - -
Dish Network received $2880 in revenue from me because I kept believing I'd have NBR.

Where did I imply I didn't get service? I said...for the last time!!!! They received that revenue from me because I was expecting the NBR on my system. I would have switched to Tivo long before 1/06 if that statement hadn't been made by Charlie Ergen.

Get off your high horse!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> I'm simply saying that it wasn't an honest mistake or goof.


This is the grudge you hold ... perhaps the reason you have returned to posting in the E* forums is to nurse that grudge? Just another somebody done somebody wrong song ...

It is clear that P363 does not have the feature you no longer long for.
It is clear to those who know that the 501/508/510 will be getting that feature.
Enough with the insults ... you made a decision - live with it. Stop blaming others.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jrbdmb said:


> I'd rather them do this that shove out NBR onto a platform that really doesn't have the horsepower to support it. I'm am concerned that NBR will turn the 5xx series into a basket case.


It had plenty of spare time to do that kind of stuff before VOD darkened the doorstep.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

It is your condescending posts that compel me to reply. Telling me "Don't do that" when I'm stating a fact? You manipulate posts and facts to prove your point (go to post of downloading hardware). It's clear that, in your eyes, Charlie did no wrong and it's clear that my opinion is VERY different than yours. Given your title of "Super Moderator", I suppose you're right and I'm wrong.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Charlie did wrong - without malace. Read my posts and you'll see that I've said that before.
You are only wrong because you're a one track record - it has nothing to do with my position.
See your posting history. You don't like E*. We know it. Lets move on.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Last time I posted something negative about Dish was on 2/8. This thread caught my eye under "Latest Posts" of front page and I couldn't help throwing in my $.02 about NBR.

I'll move on...but I bet you, as always, will have to get the last word.


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