# Beta Firmware up to 0192



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

Does anyone from TiVo or DirecTV take ownership of the THR22? It seems like forever since we debated the 'who is in control of the THR22'. Tivo or DirecTV.

Right now I really don't care anymore. What is in these firmware updates? When will joe user actually see an update?

Please no debate 'who is calling the shots'. Just would like to see someone step up and support this unit and stop finger pointing at the other.

Thank you


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

How is it not supported? What do you think an update is going to do that you can't do now?


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> How is it not supported? What do you think an update is going to do that you can't do now?


It must do something? Bug fixs? features what?

If the update doesn't do anything I can do now, why are they doing it it the first place?


----------



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Tivo RARELY (If ever) gives out release notes for software. If you're really having problems, you can try talking with Margret Schmidt https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign (margret at tivo dot com). She helped me with quite a few things when I had a Tivo Premiere.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks Kevin. Will try that.


----------



## BAMCAT (Nov 24, 2007)

I hope adds an "off" feature to the blue night light circle on the front of the box. That darn thing lights up the bedroom at night. Yes, masking tape on the blue ring cuts it down, but shouldn't have to do that.
Also, hope they put some control over the "Directv enhanced content" downloads as that D*M thing has and still does take the tuner that I am viewing if the second tuner is recording, and it is persistent, I kill it off, and 30min later it takes the tuner again, drives me nuts. I shouldn't have to put up with it. It denies me the use of the DVR that I am paying to have.
It should only do its thing at 2AM or so like the service download does, not during all hours of the day in prime viewing time.
It is so annoying.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

frankygamer said:


> It must do something? Bug fixs? features what?
> 
> If the update doesn't do anything I can do now, why are they doing it it the first place?


They could be changing the font, tweaking the code in how it accesses a list, or something as little as documentation changes. The point is you stated that there is no support for this and you want software releases yet you provide nothing in which your having a problem doing.

Software versions could changed hundreds of times and never see anything different on the end result.


----------



## technojunkie (Jul 4, 2007)

It is rather easy to turn off the lights. Press one of the buttons on the right ( Active/Info/Format) Then press one of the 4 buttons around the center lights. Once one is out press a button on the right then another in the middle. You'll need to work your way around the to get all the lights to turn off but it works.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> They could be changing the font, tweaking the code in how it accesses a list, or something as little as documentation changes. The point is you stated that there is no support for this and you want software releases yet you provide nothing in which your having a problem doing.
> 
> Software versions could changed hundreds of times and never see anything different on the end result.


I'd like to know if there are any feature updates coming like Kidzone which was dropped at the last minute. There is also a sticky of issues above I'd like to know if they are being addressed. The are references in the code for MRV in the log files. Is this being actively worked or just some dead code.

I highly doubt DirecTV/TiVo would risk bricking a box, however unlikely, to change a font or update some comments in a TCL script.

I know this is the blame Tivo not DirecTV forum, but some sort of status on the box would be nice.


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

I doubt anyone here knows if or when Tivo plans to provide any updates or new features on the THR22.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I'm still waiting when some brave soul would pick latest (who says it is beta ?) FW from stream. Just need to be close to your THR22 during short window of spooling...


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

If you want to know about new releases on the box, why don't you ask TiVo? I am pretty sure the response will be dead silence......


----------



## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

I have to admit that this whole situation has me confused. For going on 8 years, TiVo has always said that any questions about DTiVo software must be addressed to DirecTV - TiVo is just a "contractor". Indeed, I remember "TiVoPony" telling me that he got his wrist slapped for mentioning something about DTiVo development to a customer.

So I would expect that, especially as we obtain the THR22 from DirecTV, we would address our questions to DirecTV. If the CSRs are telling customers to "ask TiVo", that's just silly, as we're NOT customers of TiVo. I will admit that I have not attempted to ask such questions so I don't know, first hand, what the response is.

I would expect, though, that no useful answer to "futures" questions would be forthcoming from CSRs.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As for KidZone, I was told that is not coming back, ever. That's all I know about that. 

I can certainly see, given the history, why one would be confused about who is doing the development, who is in charge of rolling it out, etc. 

I can see why anyone would be confused, because it's confusing. As I understand it, TiVo does 100% of the development for the THR22, and before code gets to us, DIRECTV checks and approves it. 

As far as I know, DIRECTV does NOT force them to remove features.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

sbl said:


> I have to admit that this whole situation has me confused. For going on 8 years, TiVo has always said that any questions about DTiVo software must be addressed to DirecTV - TiVo is just a "contractor". Indeed, I remember "TiVoPony" telling me that he got his wrist slapped for mentioning something about DTiVo development to a customer.
> 
> So I would expect that, especially as we obtain the THR22 from DirecTV, we would address our questions to DirecTV. If the CSRs are telling customers to "ask TiVo", that's just silly, as we're NOT customers of TiVo. I will admit that I have not attempted to ask such questions so I don't know, first hand, what the response is.
> 
> I would expect, though, that no useful answer to "futures" questions would be forthcoming from CSRs.


Agree 100%.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I'm still waiting when some brave soul would pick latest (who says it is beta ?) FW from stream. Just need to be close to your THR22 during short window of spooling...


It's not that simple. I have done the forced download during multiple update streams and it doesn't see the beta. Just reloads 18A. I assume the firmware watcher references to "tp" is the transponder #. 18A stays on one TP and the beta comes on another. I don't know how to get the box to look at the other TP.


----------



## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

There is almost certainly a "TiVo product manager" inside DirecTV. However, he is almost certainly not authorized to communicate in any way to anyone outside DirecTV, except his counterpart within TiVo, a "THR22 Product manager" inside TiVo, who is almost certainly not authorized by TiVo to communicate with anyone outside TiVo other than the DirecTV TiVo product manager. That's how these things work. The software companies I have worked for behaved the same way. All communications outside the company were only by people authorized to do so, which meant they were controlled by marketing, and basically that meant no communication until something was ready for release. The only exception was for very important individual customers, and I don't think we qualify.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

frankygamer said:


> I'd like to know if there are any feature updates coming like Kidzone which was dropped at the last minute. There is also a sticky of issues above I'd like to know if they are being addressed. The are references in the code for MRV in the log files. Is this being actively worked or just some dead code.
> 
> I highly doubt DirecTV/TiVo would risk bricking a box, however unlikely, to change a font or update some comments in a TCL script.
> 
> I know this is the blame Tivo not DirecTV forum, but some sort of status on the box would be nice.


Barring some extreme circumstances here's my input (based on history of things no email or memo).

It would take some very unlikely situation for either of those to happen. I hate giving absolutes because things can happen but I'd almost state that it's not going to.

As far as bugs and so forth those will be worked on as they normally are but TiVo doesn't have a history of putting out patches/updates/fixes in a timely manner.

TiVo people get mad when they call DIRECTV and the agents try to steer them away from these boxes but ultimtely it's because of this. After the TiVo wears off and features become important customers get upset.

As far as development yes TiVo is a vendor of DIRECTV but they handle the software development side of it. DIRECTV stamps it and sends it. It's not a blame game it's just who owns what and who is going to drive it.

You will also not be able to force that download to your receiver to be updated even if you see it on a firmware monitor. Doing so could also be very bad for your unit as just because it's being sent out doesn't mean it's complete or even working.

Sorry but at least you can :up: :down:.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> They could be changing the font, tweaking the code in how it accesses a list, or something as little as documentation changes. The point is you stated that there is no support for this and you want software releases yet you provide nothing in which your having a problem doing.
> 
> Software versions could changed hundreds of times and never see anything different on the end result.


I'm reading DirecTV (soft?) bricked some of their receivers today with a SW update. I wonder if it was a font update?


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

most likely front lobe update


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

frankygamer said:


> I'm reading DirecTV (soft?) bricked some of their receivers today with a SW update. I wonder if it was a font update?


I haven't heard that but I did hear of a small issue with activations that, last I heard, was resolved.


----------



## BAMCAT (Nov 24, 2007)

Has anyone heard any more about the new release?


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

frankygamer said:


> It's not that simple. I have done the forced download during multiple update streams and it doesn't see the beta. Just reloads 18A. I assume the firmware watcher references to "tp" is the transponder #. 18A stays on one TP and the beta comes on another. I don't know how to get the box to look at the other TP.


You are right ... latest 0194 and 0195 spooled from tp21 while production 018A stay at tp3.


----------



## mkdtv21 (May 27, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> As for KidZone, I was told that is not coming back, ever. That's all I know about that.
> 
> I can certainly see, given the history, why one would be confused about who is doing the development, who is in charge of rolling it out, etc.
> 
> ...


So your saying it was not Directv's decision to remove kidzone but Tivo's? I thought I read somewhere that Tivo wanted to do so much more with the THR22 but Directv wouldn't let them.


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

mkdtv21 said:


> So your saying it was not Directv's decision to remove kidzone but Tivo's? I thought I read somewhere that Tivo wanted to do so much more with the THR22 but Directv wouldn't let them.


The general consensus from people with connections with DirecTV is TiVo has control over what goes on the box. TiVo, for whatever reason, has assigned minimum man power to this box and we should blame TiVo.

The general consensus from the TiVo crowd is why would TiVo limit it's feature set on it's own? It doesn't make sense so DirecTV must be limiting features. TiVo has no official comment which seems likely related to contractual agreements.

In the end nobody knows who will talk on the record. My guess is DirecTV paid TiVo more of a flat fee to stay on board and extend the no litigation agreement. Less was paid for actually putting a TiVo quality DVR out and making money from monthly fees. So TiVo gets money for doing little and lets a couple of interns develop on the HR22. DirecTV gets to use the TiVo brand name to get people on the phone and switch them to HRx DVRs.

Win-Win for the companies. Big loss for people would like/prefer TiVo and satellite.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

frankygamer said:


> ...Big loss for people would like/prefer TiVo and satellite...


I think you summed it up quite nicely here. I just don't see the THR22 as something either company can be proud of... It also begs some questions regarding why a THR22 is "snappier" than an HR21/HR22.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dsw2112 said:


> ... It also begs some questions regarding why a THR22 is "snappier" than an HR21/HR22.


I think it's obvious. 
HW is the same, system tables, a/v streams are the same, then only SW is different.

BTW, last version of TiVo SW is 0x0195, spooled today ...


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

frankygamer said:


> The general consensus from people with connections with DirecTV is TiVo has control over what goes on the box. TiVo, for whatever reason, has assigned minimum man power to this box and we should blame TiVo.
> 
> The general consensus from the TiVo crowd is why would TiVo limit it's feature set on it's own? It doesn't make sense so DirecTV must be limiting features. TiVo has no official comment which seems likely related to contractual agreements.
> 
> ...


I would imagine it came down more to Tivo not wanting to spend any more money on this project than necessary since it is the only box they have running on this older style platform. The question I have is, will they be allowed to create software for the hr34 hardware, since they have built a new system that is very similar for their stand alone tivo line.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> ... The question I have is, will they be allowed to create software for the hr34 hardware, since they have built a new system that is very similar for their stand alone tivo line.


I would bet - they will not allow. For many reasons, major is money. Who will share if it not forced ?


----------



## frankygamer (Jul 1, 2006)

My opinion is the current contract gives TiVo little incentive to put out a quality TiVo product. This may not have been the original hope of the new contract but that is what it has evolved into.

One thing I do take from the DirecTV crowd is TiVo has little man power on the project. If they don't commit the man power they will never be able to have SW running on the latest HW. But if TiVo is getting any sort of resistance from DirecTV on what TiVo wants to do, I completely understand TiVo making a business decision to do the minimum effort. Something as simple as disagreement on MRV implementation (THR22 to THR22 - streaming vs moving) could have been a showstopper to TiVo on the THR22. To make any DVR without MRV is pretty much dead product to the masses. Sure there is a small group who doesn't care but TiVo can't make a dent into the DTV DVR market without MRV.


----------



## htroberts (Aug 28, 2009)

Shades228 said:


> TiVo people get mad when they call DIRECTV and the agents try to steer them away from these boxes but ultimtely it's because of this. After the TiVo wears off and features become important customers get upset.


I think there's a perception on DirecTV's part that they make more money by selling their own DVR than by selling a DirecTiVo, and _that_ is why they steer customers away from TiVos, not because of problems with the TiVo.

What pisses me off is DirecTV's dis-ingenuousness about TiVo. That and their constant insistence that they value my business while demonstrating near contempt at the value of my time.



Shades228 said:


> As far as development yes TiVo is a vendor of DIRECTV but they handle the software development side of it. DIRECTV stamps it and sends it. It's not a blame game it's just who owns what and who is going to drive it.


I doubt TiVo is a 'vendor'. There's most likely a partnership agreement somewhere that spells out what each party has to do for the other.

Originally, DirecTV didn't know if consumers would buy a DVR, so they got someone else to fund development of a new 'technology'. TiVo happened to end up being the market leader for a while, and DirecTV happened to have a DVR product at a good time to be selling DVRs.

Eventually DirecTV (well, Rupert Murdoch) got tired of writing checks to TiVo and built their own, but with an arguably less elegant user interface. The agreement probably says that as long as DirecTV offers TiVos, they can also roll their own DVR, and TiVo can't sue for intellectual property infringement.

Then HD & MPEG4 came in, and TiVo's DirecTV wouldn't work any more. Of course, DirecTV could just wait until they all die in the field and say "so sorry, here's one of our _new_ DVRs," which probably would not have made them unhappy. So TiVo has a choice: build (software for) a new box that DirecTV can offer, or lose IP rights. DirecTV has a choice: offer TiVo's new box or be sued.

Result: a Mexican standoff that neither side is happy with or very motivated to put resources into resolving.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part.


----------

