# How do they do it?



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

http://reviews.designtechnica.com/guide44.html
I had been thinking lately of starting a business to replicate CD's to MP3's. Today I did a Google and found that many such services are already out there ripping cd's for as low as $0.62 each. So much for that brilliant business idea. :lol: How can these outfits do this so cheaply and still make a $ or two? I don't get it.


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

volume & software automation.


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## GeorgeLV (Jan 1, 2006)

I doubt they're actually sticking the cds into the computer and ripping them. They probably have the most popular cds already ripped and they just scan the barcode to add it to be copied to a particular customer.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I actually charge as much as 5 times what these volume houses do but I offer small quantities in DVD duplication. I use a tower of 9 drives and a feeder drive / hard drive. It works without a computer, ie self contained. The printer is a commercial inkjet that automates the printing of any number of quantity of labels but holds a stack of 100 blanks. The system is fast and can do 9 DVD's in 7 minutes including verification of the data burned. 

If you read the fine print, these low priced houses have minimum order quantities of each title. Check their price on doing quantity of 1 per title and you may see a completely different price structure.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Actually, the way it works is you send them your cd collection (they send you a shipping container for them). They then convert all your cd's (one of each) to MP3's and burn the whole collection to DVD's. I know that for the price it has to be automated in some way, just wondering how it is done. I suspect that they have several automated cd loaders and custom software that rips to MP3 format.... but they also download all the info on each disc along with covers from the internet and include that in the process. Very interesting and as usual, I am late in thinking about it.  I actually though I had a good idea. :lol:


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Are there major copyright issues here? You might argue that making one copy of all your cds is ok because it's for personal use; but mass production at 29 cents per disk?

Wow! I can get the complete Beatles' discography on a DVD. Who needs iTtunes or Napster? 

--- CHAS


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Wow! I can get the complete Beatles' discography on a DVD. Who needs iTtunes or Napster?


I think you misunderstand how it works. You have to send in YOUR cd's and they rip from those and send them back to you. This isn't a download service. You can get a complete discography of the Beatles only if you already own it. Essentially, it is a time saving service, freeing you from taking the time to rip your cd's one at a time. Not a bad deal if I do say so myself. My problem is that I have a ton of old LP's that I would also like to make into MP3's. They have to be done in real time which is "real time" consuming.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I suspect this is another one of those deals where they lose money on each transaction, but make it up on volume. :lol:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

The devil's in the details, Richard. I can't believe they do it the way you describbed. I'm probably not understanding what it is they do for how much.

You gave me the impression in your last post, they take all your CD's rip the content to MP3 and then burn it to DVD's, cost at $.69 each for the DVD.

How about stating the URL of this operation so we may see what it is they are really doing. 

JM Athony You can't lose money on each transaction and then expect to make a profit with volume. You may be thinking of "Loss Leaders" a different concept. You use a low ball price on one product to get people in the door but then switch them to another highly profitable product to keep your business in the black. This is why true loss leaders are done at a loss but then that item is limited in volume, aka only two per customer etc. 

I once saw a company advertise VHS copies at $.05 each. The details were that these were restricted to lengths of 30 second long recordings and they were available in those play once only VHS cassettes, you may recall the ones made of cardboard.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Decided to do a quick search and here is what I found-

Pricing

$129 to convert up to 100 CDs into an MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, or AAC library.

$179 to convert up to 150 CDs into an MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, or AAC library.

$229 to convert up to 200 CDs into an MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, or AAC library.

20% surcharge to convert to FLAC, or WMA Lossless formats.

30% surcharge for two sets of digital files (lossless and lossy files) archived on DVD.

Discounts available for quantities greater than 200 CDs. See order form for details. 
__________________________________

$99 + shipping 
Our standard CD to MP3 ripping service converts 100 CDs into a digital music library for your iPod or other player. $149 + shipping
Our standard CD to MP3 ripping service converts 150 CDs into a digital music library for your iPod or other player. $199 + shipping
Our standard CD to MP3 convesion service converts 200 CDs into an MP3 library for your iPod or other player

And there are many others but from what I saw they can do a CD rip and store, then burn to DVD. The cost can be as low as you say but only if you do a ton of business. If I sent them 10 CD's I would not get a DVD back for $6.90. 

Now for how they do it- Check out the Baxter automated CD ripper/burner system:

http://www.mfdigital.com/baxter.html


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> . . . JM Athony You can't lose money on each transaction and then expect to make a profit with volume. You may be thinking of "Loss Leaders" a different concept. You use a low ball price on one product to get people in the door but then switch them to another highly profitable product to keep your business in the black. This is why true loss leaders are done at a loss but then that item is limited in volume, aka only two per customer etc. . . .


Don - it was a joke! John


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Ah- Like the joke-
two bums were sitting in the park and one says to the other- I used to be a big corporate CEO. I bid my product too high and lost the contract. The other says, I was a big time corporate CEO too, I bid too low ( a loss leader), and won that bid, Figured we'd make it up on volume. yuk yuk yuk!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> How about stating the URL of this operation so we may see what it is they are really doing.


See the URL in the first post for a variety of sites that provide the service.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Check out the Baxter automated CD ripper/burner system:


I figure they have to use something like that. Nice find. Something to look into at CES.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> two bums were sitting in the park and one says to the other- I used to be a big corporate CEO. I bid my product too high and lost the contract. The other says, I was a big time corporate CEO too, I bid too low ( a loss leader), and won that bid, Figured we'd make it up on volume.


The second bum sounds like my former boss. :lol:


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Richard King said:


> The second bum sounds like my former boss. :lol:


Second bum WAS my former boss.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Richard-
The Baxter system is not consumer level stuff. IT may be there but believe it or not, this type of gear is more common at the NAB show which deals mostly in broadcast AND professional audio and video production equipment.

The way I read this service is that the best deals require a minimum purchase of about $50 worth of service and they add to that the media costs etc. I also wonder about the legalities of doing this as well since it has breached the definition of fair use now. Remember that fair use in this case allows you to make a copy for yourself as long as you do not distribute that copy. If the service owned the CD's and made the mp3 rip files. they could not sell them as a service back to the client. Likewise, if the client owned the CD's they could make the rip themselves but not have a service for hire do it for them making a profit in the process. That would be distribution and for profit which exceeds the Fair use provision in the act. 

If I am wrong on this, then it would be quite legal for me to make copies of DVD's and other copyrighted stuff for hire. I know that is not permitted and every once in awhile I have to explain that to prospects who want me to do exactly that.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Yes, I worked for a boss like that too. But as my job was the engineer, I had to figure out a way to make the stuff at least break even or it was all my fault! No, my boss was not Ross Perot!


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

Don, dvd's have copy protection measures like the CSS. The DCMA doesn't say you can't make copies of dvd's for fair use purposes but it says it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection schemes. In essence making it illegal to copy them. Most audio cd's have no such copy protection. 

Howeever blurry or grey, that may be the thin line that allows these srvices to exist.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> If the service owned the CD's and made the mp3 rip files. they could not sell them as a service back to the client. Likewise, if the client owned the CD's they could make the rip themselves but not have a service for hire do it for them making a profit in the process. That would be distribution and for profit which exceeds the Fair use provision in the act.


An interesting twist to fair use. I suspect these services may end up in court one of these days, unless, of course they are permitted through some kind of licensing fees, but then I can't see how they could make a profit. Then again, I don't see how they can make a profit anyway.

By the way, I have been to the NAB probably four times, but this was back in the '80's. That and the AES show were always great fun for me to see the new toys.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Richard,

Actually I do understand how it works if indeed it will work.

I send my Beatles CDs to Scoutchpot Transcribers LLC. They make MP3 transcriptions of my CDs and put them all on a DVD. I order 10,000 of these DVDs at 29 cents each. They mail the whole works back to me. I sell the disks 'under the table' for ten dollars each and make a lot of money. My 'customers' abandon iTunes and Napster because they get a better deal from me.

Then the FBI breaks down my door and takes me away in irons. Hi Hi ...

--- CHAS


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

ntexasdude- DMCA ( not DCMA) has little or nothing to do with the original copyright act. They address two separate issues. One addresses circumventing a digital encryption method while the original copyright act, addresses content rights. The original content copyrights are far more reaching and restrictive since the DMCA only addfresses DIGITAL encryption circumvention. In the nutshell, you can actually be within your fair use rights yet still be technically in violation of the DMCA. BTW- not all DVD content is encrypted. But, most Hollywood movies and the likes are. 

HIPAR- no offense but I think you are full of it! In otherwords, I don't believe you.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I order 10,000 of these DVDs at 29 cents each.


I doubt very much that they will sell you more than one dvd of your tunes. There is nothing, however, to keep you from making 10,000 copies in your spare time.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Yes, I worked for a boss like that too. But as my job was the engineer,


I used to sell the jobs that the poor engineers would have to make work at a profitable rate after the boss got hold of my bids and lowered the margin to the point where it was near impossible.


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