# Local channels on YouTube TV, and it's competitors



## enjoywatchingTV (Dec 18, 2018)

I currently have Sling with an AirTV player which then supplements my locals. But, Sling has my NBC and Fox affiliate as well. YouTube TV on the other hand, has NBC and Fox as well as CBS, ABC, Telemundo, and myTV, The CW from my local market.

I remember way back in the day when Dish Network and DirecTV wanted to carry local channels, they couldn't do so without the enforcement of must-carry, which would result in carriage of PBS stations and other independent stations.

a. How did YouTube TV, Sling and other Internet Streaming Services that re-distribute local TV stations get a pass to not deal with must-carry? Would those providers likely be affected down the road?

b. I have Comcast and Fios in my area and both charge a $7-8 fee for broadcast networks on top of the package. I hate that it's separated like that, because of a $49.99 Xfinity DoublePlay with Internet and local channels really has a few fees including this one which isn't small. I was looking at YouTube TV and it does lack a few channels like Comedy Central, but it has TCM and NBA TV, which are typically in higher tier cable packages, cloud DVR included, as well as the local broadcast networks (not PBS though). With that said, does YouTube make money on a $40 subscription with these broadcast networks included in it? (It's kind of interesting that Philo has many of the missing cable networks not in YouTube TV, just as an aside)


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

enjoywatchingTV said:


> I currently have Sling with an AirTV player which then supplements my locals. But, Sling has my NBC and Fox affiliate as well. YouTube TV on the other hand, has NBC and Fox as well as CBS, ABC, Telemundo, and myTV, The CW from my local market.
> 
> I remember way back in the day when Dish Network and DirecTV wanted to carry local channels, they couldn't do so without the enforcement of must-carry, which would result in carriage of PBS stations and other independent stations.
> 
> ...


I have YTTV/wStarz and Philo,if you want PBS there is the PBS app,to access the archive of PBS shows you will need a PBS Passport account which cost as little as $5. a month.
PBS also says their Passport account fee is tax deductible because it's a donation(that is stated on the PBS website).
My answer to your question a. not my worry, I pay YTTV $40. a month for their package and $9. a month for Starz,Philo I pay $20. a month,there is no contracts to worry about,you can cancel
anytime.
There are no extra fees period,that's what I like about OTT providers(Internet TV).
As to the answer to b.,I guess you can ask YTTV and Philo,I personally don't care,they offer a service,they set the price,I pay it,life is good.


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## enjoywatchingTV (Dec 18, 2018)

The PBS app is great and it's free! But I like the ability to watch PBS in the form of it's stations as well. I'm old school in a way. 

I am able to receive two PBS stations over the air (WHYY and NJN) and have it integrated via AirTV Sling, and WHYY is also covered in the locast.org app.

I am interested in YTTV and Philo. I don't care for sports channels or Disney and YTTV does seem to target the sports viewer better than Sling I think.

But, I like that YTTV has more Starz/Encore channels than Sling, and Showtime is less expensive there and TCM is in the main package. But Sling has Epix and HDNet. One day I might switch from Sling over to YTTV and Philo like you have to try it out.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

enjoywatchingTV said:


> ...
> I remember way back in the day when Dish Network and DirecTV wanted to carry local channels, they couldn't do so without the enforcement of must-carry, which would result in carriage of PBS stations and other independent stations.
> 
> a. How did YouTube TV, Sling and other Internet Streaming Services that re-distribute local TV stations get a pass to not deal with must-carry? Would those providers likely be affected down the road?


Stations must select either "consent" ($) or "must carry" (no $) for the cable/sat/etc, carriers they wish to be carried on. Most broadcasters have chosen "consent" requiring a carriage contract and payment to the station. If the carrier and station can't agree on terms, then no carriage. "Must carry" means just that, the carrier must offer the channel, but makes no payment to the station.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

enjoywatchingTV said:


> The PBS app is great and it's free! But I like the ability to watch PBS in the form of it's stations as well. I'm old school in a way.
> 
> I am able to receive two PBS stations over the air (WHYY and NJN) and have it integrated via AirTV Sling, and WHYY is also covered in the locast.org app.
> 
> ...


Everyone has to check out all the OTT providers and see which fits them best,for me it just turned out to be YTTV/wStarz and Philo,someone else it could be some other service.
All I know is after having OTA(which I still have) satellite(tried both providers for years) and cable tv(years) the one thing that bothered me was the little extra fees,I started hating them with
a passion,so when internet tv showed up I was ready to jump and so far I am very happy with the services I selected.


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## enjoywatchingTV (Dec 18, 2018)

NYDutch said:


> Stations must select either "consent" ($) or "must carry" (no $) for the cable/sat/etc, carriers they wish to be carried on. Most broadcasters have chosen "consent" requiring a carriage contract and payment to the station. If the carrier and station can't agree on terms, then no carriage. "Must carry" means just that, the carrier must offer the channel, but makes no payment to the station.


I understand that. My question was how Google/YTTV, Sling and a few others (not Philo since Philo doesn't carry locals), are able to avoid that legally and is ONLY carrying a number of network affiliates via consent. I'm pretty sure in my market, certain stations would elect "must-carry" on YTTV and the others, if they could. Perhaps no law is established for it, but the National Association of Broadcasters, NAB, was able to get established for cable and satellite retransmission.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Must carry and consent to carry are part of the laws that apply to cable and satellite. Based on observation, I believe those laws have been extended to other systems such as UVerse and FIOS. They operate in a similar manner to a cable or satellite provider with defined markets and a fair amount of exclusivity. OTT services are not cable, satellite or similar services.

What most people forget about the must carry/consent to carry law is that it is permissive. It allows cable and satellite companies to carry local channels under a specific set of permissions. If the cable or satellite company meets the requirements they can carry locals under the permission granted by the laws. Cable was built of carrying local channels and the law was written to require a certain percentage of a cable company's channels to be offered for local channel carriage (a small cable company need not carry every channel within their market area - large cable companies generally have enough channels that they can't meet the quota without carrying every available channel). Satellite added local channels market by market and they have a "carry one/carry all" requirement per market. If a satellite company uses the law to carry one OTA station in a market they must offer carriage to all qualified OTA stations within that market. That has been extended to HD. A market can be carried 100% in SD (no HD carriage) but now if a satellite company uses the law to carry one OTA station in a market in HD then all HD stations within that market must be offered HD carriage.

So what happens if there is no law? Carriage could still occur but the terms would need to be worked out between the carrier and the OTA station - not relying on the law to set terms for carriage. Not relying on the law allows OTT services to negotiate with the stations they want to carry and ignore the stations they do not want to carry via their systems. Carriers could even charge stations for carriage. Cable and satellite companies are not allowed to charge stations under the carriage laws they rely on - but if that law does not apply then the restrictions do not apply.

The big challenge with OTA on OTT is getting the streaming rights to the content. Local stations have the rights to transmit OTA the content they have bought or licensed. The cable and satellite laws have given carriers the right (overriding any network objections) to retransmit those stations over their systems. Unless the local station has streaming rights they cannot grant permission to any OTT carrier to carry their station. The lack of streaming rights means that their stream would need to be blacked out any time they aired content where they did not hold the streaming rights. Including news segments licensed for OTA or commercials produced with music or video from licensed libraries.

To fully understand rights you need a lawyer. The closest I have come to being a lawyer is to be an engineer trying not to do anything that the lawyer would need to defend.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> I have YTTV/wStarz and Philo,if you want PBS there is the PBS app,to access the archive of PBS shows you will need a PBS Passport account which cost as little as $5. a month.
> PBS also says their Passport account fee is tax deductible because it's a donation(that is stated on the PBS website).
> My answer to your question a. not my worry, I pay YTTV $40. a month for their package and $9. a month for Starz,Philo I pay $20. a month,there is no contracts to worry about,you can cancel
> anytime.
> ...


Well YTTV's price increase got me(YTTV is now$49.00),first to counter YTTV's price increase I cancelled Philo,then I reviewed all the OTT providers offers.
Because of YTTV's price increase I can now afford Hulu + Hulu Live with the no commercial plan for $50.99 + Starz for $8.99 which is close to YTTV +Starz, so I changed my service to Hulu Live which also includes Hulu,no commercial plan + Starz.
The Starz package has alot of the East and West channels,plus Retroplex
,Movieplex and Indieplex.


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